# Never saw such a bolt head



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Im removing a rear brake cylinder from my 87 sunbird, and the cylinder is attached by 2 bolts from the rear of the plate, and the heads are like the tip of a torx bit. What the heck?? How do you remove them, with some kind of reverse torx "socket"? hate to try a regular 6 point socket- could strip them. They do have some rust of course, being so old. 

Tips appreciated.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

External torx socket. 

Start soaking them with penetrating oil now. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-pc-14-in-38-in-drive-impact-e-socket-set-67898.html


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

12 point will work in a pinch if not seized


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

For home get some spline drive sockets. They are designed to work with all fasteners. Work pretty good with partially rounded bolts too.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

These http://m.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-metric-spline-socket-set-96362.html


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If it's a 12 point socket head cap screw a 12 point socket is usually the tool of choice. Those have been around for a few decades but only seen occasionally.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

SeniorSitizen said:


> If it's a 12 point socket head cap screw a 12 point socket is usually the tool of choice. Those have been around for a few decades but only seen occasionally.


thanks, but its a 6 point head.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

noquacks said:


> thanks, but its a 6 point head.


Do you have a 12 point socket that fits it?


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Do you have a 12 point socket that fits it?


no, senior, but man, you wont beleive it but I found a 1/4" 6 point socket with kind of strangely cut inside edges, and man, it worked!!!! Whew, thanks for the inspiration, you know!?. 

Now, second problem, cant get the brake line nut off, even with a flare nut wrench. Man, should I heat the base of it with propane? I mean, heat the housing the nut goes into, not the nut.......


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes usually doesn't take a whole lot of heat to get it free.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

cjm94 said:


> Yes usually doesn't take a whole lot of heat to get it free.


So, CJ, youve dont this before? heat will work?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

heat the flare nut itself. Quite likely the nut is frozen in the cylinder but the nut is likely also frozen on the line. Just don't heat the line up (much). Heat the nut and soak it with a penetrant (be careful as many are flammable and you may have a flare up). After you do that a couple times, while it is still hot the last time, using a flare nut wrench break the nut free from the cylinder. Pay attention to whether the nut spins on the line or the line twists with the nut. If the line twists, often times short back and forth movements (tighten; loosen) as well as liberal sprays of penetrant often breaks that free.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

good tips, nap. thanks.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

Yep what nap said works most of the time. If the line is really rusty I just cut them off and replace it.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

cjm94 said:


> Yep what nap said works most of the time. If the line is really rusty I just cut them off and replace it.


meaning cuting the line say, 1" away, then buying a flare tool and flare the tip with a new nut? Is that doable?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

I replace the entire line section. Old lines are often hard to work with and to get them to take a (double) flare cleanly.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

If you can dig up a torx screw with that drive size, crank two nuts on it and use it as a wrench.

Now, why on earth GM would decide to use such a screw head, that I can not answer. Found one on my steering column a while back, rather well hidden, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

SPS-1 said:


> If you can dig up a torx screw with that drive size, crank two nuts on it and use it as a wrench.
> 
> Now, why on earth GM would decide to use such a screw head, that I can not answer. Found one on my steering column a while back, rather well hidden, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.



Yes not just gm they are getting fairly common. That's why a set of spline wrenches or socket set is nice. I have a couple ratchet wrench sets they work great. Less likely to round bolt heads too.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

If you are still having trouble removing the line, remove the shoes and the two bolts holding the cylinder down. Heat the cylinder, use a tubing wrench on the line and spin the cylinder off with a pair of channel locks. Now heat the flare nut to free it from the line.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

update: Yahoooo!! propane on the nut did the trick!! Its of! No rust to speak of, since it's some alloy, but now, geez- cant get the cylinder out cuz the hub is in the way! man, now I gotta muscle off those 4 big bolts/nuts. Bolt heads are torx, but cant access them cuz theyre behind the hub, not allowing enough space. 

But, I can try to unscrew nuts from BEHIND. Is this the way to do it people, cuz to me, no other way to remove the brake cylinder........

thanks


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

ok, forget that approach cuz removing hub didnt matter- cylinder STILL wont come out cuz its wedged inside hub and outer "rim". haynes manual simply says "remove wheel cylinder from backing plate.....". Useless. Sheesh- now what??????? Howd they put it in there at the factory?


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... What holds the Hub on,..??


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... What holds the Hub on,..??


thannks, bondo- the hub and flange is held down by 4 torx bolts. Figured out there is a hole in the flange where you can insert the extension of the rachet, accessing the torx heads. Got it off. Whew. Looking like all's working out now. haynes manual doesnt even mention you have to remove the entire hub. Sheesh. Then pop the flange off with a rubber mallet. 

Why dont they explain stuff in more detail?? Ya gotta figure it all out yourself (with the help of the forum members here, of course!)

Thanks, Man, for the follow up.


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