# Taping drywall joints - fiber glass mesh or paper?



## slickshift

Mesh
Anywhere and everywhere it's possible to (mostly I'm doing repairs)
Paper tape is stronger?....not sure on that one

Oh, my bro-in law the pro drywaller uses mesh


----------



## joewho

I don't know which is stronger, but from a diy stand point either has drawbacks and advantages.

For a diy, the fiberglass will show through if not completley covered or sanded too much. Paper is much easier to handle in that respect, but more difficult to apply. You have to make sure the tape is 100% embedded in wet compound to avoid bubbles and it takes more work to apply compound to the wall for paper. Fiberglass will stick to the wall and then apply the compound.

Sometimes you run into corners that are not tight to each other and you want to tape it now. So, you fill the void with mud apply the tape and mud that. Fiberglass tends to get pushed into the void, leaving a crooked corner. Paper is folded and makes the corner for you.

Hope this help.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst.

Well, I've got to say that we have seen redimix over mesh tape - flake and crack.

After doing drywall for 22 years, this is how we see it:

Paper tape for redimix compound - on the wallboard seams and corners.

Mesh tape for durabond - on the wallboard seams

Always use paper tape for the corners (regardless of if you use durabond or ready mix)


----------



## RickT

Thanks, guys. I'm using ready-mixed Sheetrock Lightweight Joint Compound from HomeDepot. What's durabond? 

I bought paper tape because Tom Silva from This Old House uses it. An article in last month's Family Handyman says to use mesh tape if you're not a pro. They say paper tape can be difficult to apply. They also said that if you push too hard, you can squeeze out the joint compound and the tape will bubble and peel later. They also said the pros use paper because it provides a stronger joint. 

Thanks again,
Rick


----------



## Nhrafan

Anyone see this stuff before? 
I was wondering how it would work?

http://www.eztapingsystem.com/


----------



## AtlanticWBConst.

Nhrafan said:


> Anyone see this stuff before?
> I was wondering how it would work?
> 
> http://www.eztapingsystem.com/


 
Nhrafan,

That product has been on the market for at least 3 -4 years.

FWIW - The red ez tape is for firewall seam application. We just used it on an apartment complexe's draft walls - 2 weeks ago. We also used a spray adhesive with it. 
Why the spray adhesive? : The reason why is because we used this red firewall tape 3 years ago and it 'fell' off the firewall seams. However, since then, they re-formulated their adhesives a bit, but it still was not sticking completely, and would not overlap another piece of the tape.

The other system for finished drywall - I watched the video - I didn't see any advantages in using it. It takes almost as much time to put on and coat as paper tape. 
Realize that NO kind of tape will adhere well to a dusty surface. Unfortunately, sheetrock surfaces are usually quite dusty with sheetrock dust, after it is installed.
Using compound and paper tape = Will stick to even dusty sheetrock surfaces.

I cannot see that a product like that could ever be the equivalent in quality as mudding and paper tape (Much stronger adhesion to the drywall seams) 
I know that no pros would ever consider using that in place of regular paper tape...tried and true.

- my 2 cents -


----------



## Nhrafan

Thanks for your usual wise-and-straightforward words! 
That's pretty much what I thought...... seems too good it probably..... well you know.

I'm remodeling my bath and just got the new "mold and mildew resistant" board delivered along with the Durock this morning. 
How do I treat the corners where the Durock meets the drywall??

Just tape and mud as normal or is there another way to do this?:huh:

Thanks,
Rob


----------



## AtlanticWBConst.

Nhrafan said:


> How do I treat the corners where the Durock meets the drywall??
> Just tape and mud as normal or is there another way to do this?:huh:
> Thanks,
> Rob


 
Exactly as you asked... Tape & mud like normal. (Treat the cement board as if it were sheetrock)


----------



## RippySkippy

First a bit from our sponsor....from page 58 on the USG Gypsum construction handbook

"Repeated joint strength tests conducted at the USG Research Center have shown that joints taped and finished with conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape and conventional joint compounds are more prone to cracking than joints finished with paper tape and conventional joint compounds. This is because fiberglass mesh tapes tend to stretch under load, even after being covered with joint compounds"

I use fiberglass only when I have something deep to fill, embed it deep and top with paper. I've had best luck with paper taping when the mud is on the thinner side, and the base is well covered. Use a small knife to make sure it's bedded correctly.

When taping the corners, knock the sharp corner off the knife, don't ask me how easy it is to poke a knife corner through the paper.....don't ask.

Here's the taping how-to link from USG, hope it helps:


Rip


----------



## rehabob

*Better late than never*

I just read this book: _*Drywall - Professional Techniques for Great Results*_ by Myron R. Ferguson. The author states taped joints are stronger than mesh, although he doesn't explain why, and give a better finished appearance. Lots of other pro tips that I never would have learned on my own. My brief experience with mesh is the same as AtlanticWBConst. Now, I only use mesh with cement board.
---------------------------------------------
*CMHbob*
Visit my blog for my latest rehab project and reno tips!


----------



## Brushjockey

I have found for a straight ahead sheetrock tape job, paper is better. For repairs, particularly plaster repairs, mesh is better, but should be set with hot mud ( powdered- sets chemically, not by evaporation )Aka durobond or powdered easy sand.


----------



## firehawkmph

It all depends on what you are used to working with. I have been using the mesh tape for over ten years now with no problems. I use easisand 45 and 90 for the first two coats and finish up with redi-mix dust control. I have been using the ultra thin mesh tape for the last couple of years. I used the mesh in my own basement when finishing it ten years ago, no cracks. If you do a good job with paper tape, use it. If you like the mesh, go with it. Either one is going to be a learning experience for a diy'er just getting started. Take your time, don't try to cover everything in one coat.
Mike Hawkins


----------



## rehabob

*Threads falling off mesh tape*

Mike - I tried the ultra thin mesh with redimix joint compound on the last project. It seemed like the outside threads would easily come loose as I rolled out the tape, leaving long strands that I had to cut off. Also, when I applied the first mud coat, more strands would let go, messing up my mud job, and taking time to cut off. Do you have this problem? How can I prevent it?
--------------------------------------------
*CMHbob*
Visit my *blog* for my latest project and reno tips!


----------



## firehawkmph

Bob,
Sometimes that outer strand does come free from the roll while playing it out. I just cut the strand off with my razor knife. I haven't had any come free while taping. I use easisand for the initial coat. I mix it so it is not as thick as the redi mix. I use redi mix for the third coat (dust control). When you sand, the dust does drop right to the floor.
Mike Hawkins


----------



## user1007

I use the mesh tape for repairing cracks only. Otherwise slap on the mud, press the paper tape in, scrape of the excess and come back to skim coat and so forth a day later. I have never been able to press the fiber stuff into mud without catching some of it with my knife. It takes so much longer to work with it.


----------



## jsheridan

firehawkmph said:


> Bob,
> Sometimes that outer strand does come free from the roll while playing it out. I just cut the strand off with my razor knife. I haven't had any come free while taping. I use easisand for the initial coat. I mix it so it is not as thick as the redi mix. I use redi mix for the third coat (dust control). When you sand, the dust does drop right to the floor.
> Mike Hawkins


Fire, I noticed you use heat for your first two coats, and redi for the third. I went through a phase where I was using three coats of 45 mix. I was getting blisters in the finish at times. No one I spoke to about it could tell me why, even though I told them what my system was. I searched and searched online, finally found a remote website where a guy said no no to my system. Turns out the plaster content, the heat in the 45, was causing a reaction in the paint and creating blisters, even when primed. Changed my system and blisters gone. Did you learn this way as well, or are you just smarter than the average bear:laughing:? 



sdsester said:


> I use the mesh tape for repairing cracks only. Otherwise slap on the mud, press the paper tape in, scrape of the excess and come back to skim coat and so forth a day later. I have never been able to press the fiber stuff into mud without catching some of it with my knife. It takes so much longer to work with it.


Sdsester, you say press the mesh into mud. I worked with a guy a few years ago who used to put the mesh in a bed of mud and he had the same problem, no bed for mesh, straight on the surface. The mesh adhesive tape presses onto the wall and gets skimmed over. I use mesh all the time and never have that problem. I start the tape on the crack, press it down with my blade as I roll out, and cut it with the blade at the end by pulling the roll back toward me over the edge of the blade. One smooth continuous move.


----------



## Brushjockey

I also do 2 hot, then plus 3. Mainly for ease of sanding. I have also found that if you top before the moisture is out of the hot mud the plus3 will bubble much less. Never much of an adhesion prob this way.


----------



## jsheridan

Brushjockey said:


> I also do 2 hot, then plus 3. Mainly for ease of sanding. I have also found that if you top before the moisture is out of the hot mud the plus3 will bubble much less. Never much of an adhesion prob this way.


Plus3 ??????

Also, if you read the powder mix instructions it says you can recoat after 45 minutes, even it appears a bit gray (wet). I always over allow for drying prior to recoating, takes more time but minimizes chance of failure.


----------



## rehabob

*Right Product?*



firehawkmph said:


> I use easisand 45 and 90 for the first two coats and finish up with redi-mix dust control. Mike Hawkins


Mike - when you mention 'easisand 45', is it this *product* (Easy Sand)? I'd like to try your method on the next project.
--------------------------------------------
*CMHbob*
Visit my *blog* for my latest project and reno tips!


----------



## jsheridan

CMHbob said:


> Mike - when you mention 'easisand 45', is it this *product* (Easy Sand)? I'd like to try your method on the next project.
> --------------------------------------------
> *CMHbob*
> Visit my *blog* for my latest project and reno tips!


Not to step on Mike's question, but yes, that's the idea. However, USG powder mix isn't that easy to sand, but then again, there is no sanding between coats of spackle either. Three thin coats, no sanding til final. Sanding between coats only makes the job harder, minimizes your results, takes more time, and creates more mess. Easisand may be a product Mike has available in his locale, or it may be the USG?


----------



## Matthewt1970

Paper tape is used by the pros because you can load it into bazookas. It may be stronger against initial cracking but when it fails, it is a mess. Most times a bead of caulk will fix small cracks from mesh tape but using easysand or durabond for a first coat is a good insurance policy.


----------



## firehawkmph

CMHbob said:


> Mike - when you mention 'easisand 45', is it this *product* (Easy Sand)? I'd like to try your method on the next project.
> --------------------------------------------
> *CMHbob*
> Visit my *blog* for my latest project and reno tips!


 Bob,
That's the stuff. Sorry for the spelling error. I get it at out local home depot.
Mike Hawkins


----------



## firehawkmph

jsheridan said:


> Not to step on Mike's question, but yes, that's the idea. However, USG powder mix isn't that easy to sand, but then again, there is no sanding between coats of spackle either. Three thin coats, no sanding til final. Sanding between coats only makes the job harder, minimizes your results, takes more time, and creates more mess. Easisand may be a product Mike has available in his locale, or it may be the USG?


 Joe,
I spelled it wrong. It's USG easy sand followed by a number, 5, 20, 45, 90, 120. You are correct on no sanding between coats. I just run a knife down wherever I taped to knock off any ridges. Sand on the final coat. I like the redimix called 'Dust Control.' It sands easy and drops to the floor instead of getting really airborn and floating all over. When you get done sanding, its within about a foot of the wall and that's it.
Mike Hawkins


----------



## firehawkmph

jsheridan said:


> Fire, I noticed you use heat for your first two coats, and redi for the third. I went through a phase where I was using three coats of 45 mix. I was getting blisters in the finish at times. No one I spoke to about it could tell me why, even though I told them what my system was. I searched and searched online, finally found a remote website where a guy said no no to my system. Turns out the plaster content, the heat in the 45, was causing a reaction in the paint and creating blisters, even when primed. Changed my system and blisters gone. Did you learn this way as well, or are you just smarter than the average bear:laughing:?
> Joe,
> I never came across that problem. I only use the hot stuff for the first two coats. Just dumb luck. Never tried three coats of heat, only because it is tougher to sand than the ready mix stuff. Also, on the final coat, I add just a small amount of water to the ready mix and mix the whole tub with a paddle bit and slow speed mixing drill. It makes it easier to spread and feather and eliminates a lot of drag. If you add too much water, however, you will have more of a tendency to get the tiny air bubbles in the finish.
> Mike Hawkins


----------



## Brushjockey

If you want to eliminate most of the dust sanding, I suggest these vacuum sanding tools. 
I use the marshaltown hand sander and the Hyde pole sander. They have changed life as I know it for a guy who does lots of repair work

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders

Takes some getting used to (the hose) and make sure you have a collection bag in your vacuum or you will overwhelm the filter.


----------

