# Best air operated impact gun



## bluefish7 (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a pancake compressor (PC) and would like to be able to use an air operated impact wrench, if it would work to remove/install some of the higher torque automotive bolts. Any recommendations or would the typical 150 psi Porter Cable not work, in short bursts, to power that kind of tool? Thanks


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Your compressor should be able to handle any impact in short bursts.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Its all about SFPM, not just PSI. Check your compressor output against the tools requirement. But that said, short burst from a 3/8 impact running off a pancake will probably be ok.
Regarding who is best? It used to be IR, not sure if that is still true.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Yodaman said:


> Its all about SFPM, not just PSI. Check your compressor output against the tools requirement. But that said, short burst from a 3/8 impact running off a pancake will probably be ok.
> Regarding who is best? *It used to be IR*, not sure if that is still true.


Ayuh,..... It still is,.... I've got a copy of the newest most powerful 1/2" titanium line,...
I consider myself a "Pro", 'n was Impressed the 1st time I pulled the trigger,....:vs_whistle:

Bluefish, Ya yer little compressor will run 'bout any of the 3/8", 'n 1/2" guns yer gonna want,.....
For _Short_ bursts,....

I suggest ya swing by harbor fright, 'n pick 1 off the shelf, 'n try it,.....
You probably don't need a $300 gun,....
Hit some tool forums, 'n see which of the H/F guns get the best reviews,....
Garage Journal maybe,....


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

30+ yrs ago I bought a HF impact - it still works well! Only problem is back then I didn't know much about impacts other than I wanted one ... and the one I bought [under #20] has a low torque rating, but it works well for most of what I do. If it ever dies I'll buy one with more torque.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I don't know if they make them any longer but I bought one of HF's Earthquake wrenches about 15 years ago and I would buy it again.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Unless you have another compressor or plan to buy one, then I'd consider a cordless impact. Your pancake compressor won't have enough volume to do any tough work. If the nuts always buzzed right loose, and your willing to wait between taking nuts loose, then it might work. If you have to hammer at all then you aren't gonna have enough air. In other words if you really NEED the impacting ability, you won't have enough air to actually do that. 

When I first started out I tried to get by with two different single stage compressors, a 20 gallon and 60 gallon, all I ever got was annoyed. Mine was only capable of about 130 psi and then kicked off until the tank dropped down to 90 psi. You need a constant 90-100 psi at the tool end of the hose (with the trigger pulled) for reasonable performance. That means you need the tank to never get below about 130 to adequately supply the regulator and hose. Hard to do when the compressor only generates 135-150 psi that quickly depletes as soon as you pull the trigger. I tried to run a 3/8 impact with my 4.5 gallon twin stack porter cable and it was virtually unusable.

You can get a Dewalt brushless impact or milwaukee fuel impact and hammer away. Either of these are pretty strong and may give a decent pneumatic setup a run for the money. These aren't real comparable to high end stuff like my snap on or IR impacts and 80 gallon two stage compressor though, this setup can put out about 1300 lb ft and it can do it all day long. 

If you have other cordless stuff you may want to get one that works with your current system, but I can't really speak for other brands. I have the Dewalt and it's been pretty impressive. Really convenient to be able to just take it with me even where there's no power. These aren't cheap but probably cheaper than a good impact and adequately sized compressor.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

stick\shift said:


> I don't know if they make them any longer but I bought one of HF's Earthquake wrenches about 15 years ago and I would buy it again.


Pretty sure they still sell them, my oldest son has one he bought a few yrs ago.

I agree a larger compressor would be nice but a single stage compressor is all most of us need. I started out with a 11 gallon 1 hp compressor and I was able to make it work for everything I did. I even painted cars with it although the cfm requirements of a spray gun meant I did a good bit of stopping and starting - just had to plan out the spray job in advance.


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## bluefish7 (Sep 22, 2014)

Great advice everyone, great forum. For background, I am just a weekend warrior and if cordless impact is the way to go (high torqued brake caliper carriers, for example) then I will look at those. I also have a Porter Cable cordless set but imagine that the impacts need a bit more than 20v.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I would go electric before cordless; mine is surprisingly powerful.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I like cordless tools but no way would I consider one that didn't use the same battery as the rest of my cordless tools. Contrary to what you might think, an often used battery will outlast a seldom used one.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

That may have been the case with the older nicad but lithium batteries have completely changed the cordless game. They're lighter, more powerful and last longer per charge. As long as you don't store the batteries discharged they last extremely well. Lithium batteries can be damaged when they discharge too far. Built in circuitry shuts the battery down while it's still in a safe voltage range, but if left uncharged these like all other battery chemistries, continue to slowly discharge. When the voltage falls below the safe point the chemistry is known to become unstable and short internally and the charger will refuse to recharge them. 

I'm still using my first 20v batteries from 2011 with no real noticeable loss of performance. I have a three of these and they are a beast for a cordless impact. This is just a bare tool, in a full kit with a battery, bag and charger it's $299. 

These brushless impacts will actually outperform the corded version when it comes to power. We assemble grain storage and handling equipment, often working where there is no power on site or high in the air, so these see a ton of use. For tightening the thousands of bolts holding a grain bin together we run several corded guns. Have had both dewalt and milwaukee corded impacts but the crew much prefer the dewalt's. 

Always nice to keep your tools using the same batteries but unfortunately sometimes things just aren't available in your chosen platform. I've decided to change over a couple times through the years and that's a pretty large investment for me. We used to run all 18v stuff but after seeing what the new lithium platform could do it was hard to go back. Bought a few kits and ran both 18v & 20v for a while but eventually got switched completely. I've been buying a few of the 60v flexvolt tools too. Not so much a changeover as just an expansion because the batteries can switch voltage and work when attached to 20v tools. The 60v circular saw is pretty incredible, works as well as any corded saw I've ever used. The 60v grinder is also becoming one of my favorite tools.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

I have the Milwaukee Fuel 1/2” cordless impact, and it’s a monster. It’ll take off semi-truck wheels, so it can handle anything the average dude can throw at it. 

When I got mine, it was the only one of its kind, but now all the major cordless tool brands have one. Pick the one that is in your platform and go for it, they’re all pretty good. And if you can buy a bare tool, cheaper than a compressor/air line/impact combo.


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## bluefish7 (Sep 22, 2014)

Got a cheapo Porter Cable combo kit, do they make a quality impact?


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

At one time Porter Cable made outstanding tools in the USA but they've changed ownership a few times. Now they are kinda on the lower end, more of a homeowner version for Black & Decker. Most all of the porter cable tools are imported. B&D owns lots of other brands too, including DeWalt but there are many levels of tools among those brands. Dewalt is one of their flagship, geared toward the pro brands.

Overall PC is probably still a decent tool, but it's not going to be the high powered version like the dewalt brushless or milwaukee fuel tools would be, they are not on the same level. Looking at the specs the cordless impacts are pretty weak by comparison. PC isn't going to offer a large, ever expanding line of cordless tools either. You can almost get any tool you'd want in cordless dewalt. Porter cable is much more limited to just the basics. This leaves you at a disadvantage in the future if you need a specific tool. You may need to buy a whole different brand, complete with batteries and charger rather than simply add on to the tools, batteries and chargers you already own.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

When I was turning nuts both IR and CP were good equipment to have in the tool box. Since they were used professionally all day a parts supply was important to us but a week end mechanic may never need a replacement part.
Enjoy the speed, torque by hand.:wink2:When torquing 96 head bolts on a V-12 to 600# it was tempting to just get the big impact but we didn't. In those days I'd arm wrestle most anyone.:vs_laugh:


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

bluefish7 said:


> Got a cheapo Porter Cable combo kit, do they make a quality impact?



Do you mean you got a cordless kit or compressor kit? If you mean cordless then you want a PC impact regardless of what anyone else' experiences are, unless of course you want to maintain two battery platforms, which usually isn't a very efficient way to go. If you mean an air compressor kit, take in all you can here as well as any reviews you can find because you're not locked in to a particular brand. Like SS, I was always partial to Chicago Pneumatic and still have one that I've rebuilt a couple of times to keep it still running good about 50 years later, but that's not an option for you today, and from what I've seen and heard, barring high end Snap-On's, Matco's, or whatever, everything is going to be an import and pretty much luck of the draw.


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## bluefish7 (Sep 22, 2014)

Yeah I've got a set of caliper mount bolts that were apparently torqued to 250 lb from the factory, I want to get those off first and that is where my measuring stick starts. Anything after that would be weekend warrior stuff, but I have a 1996 Prevost so likely it would be useful there just don't know the torques.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

bluefish7 said:


> Yeah I've got a set of caliper mount bolts that were apparently torqued to 250 lb from the factory, I want to get those off first and that is where my measuring stick starts. Anything after that would be weekend warrior stuff, but I have a 1996 Prevost so likely it would be useful there just don't know the torques.


Just a note. I used my old Harbor Fright Central Pneumatic 1/2 in. drive impact wrench running 80 PSI of air to it, on my wife's old 2003 Buick LeSabre caliper mounting bolts. 

It is no wilting daisy by any means, and it still would not remove those old original factory installed bolts on those front calipers, and I had it set on max power of 5.

It took soaking them overnight with PB Blaster and STILL, I had to torch heat the bolts to get them out with the impact. Danged lucky, that I did not shear them off.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

With a pneumatic gun, proper air pressure is really important. Most pneumatic tools require 90psi at the tool, with the trigger pulled, so 80 psi would be well short. My compressor cycles between 150-175 psi, I maintain 115 psi on the regulator to give me 90 psi at the end of the hose with the tool running. I can usually do most disc brake work on cars with just my 3/8" IR gun. I like it because it's light, small and can fit in behind easily, yet still powerful enough to get it done.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

iamrfixit said:


> With a pneumatic gun, proper air pressure is really important. Most pneumatic tools require 90psi at the tool, with the trigger pulled, so 80 psi would be well short. My compressor cycles between 150-175 psi, I maintain 115 psi on the regulator to give me 90 psi at the end of the hose with the tool running. I can usually do most disc brake work on cars with just my 3/8" IR gun. I like it because it's light, small and can fit in behind easily, yet still powerful enough to get it done.


LOL. So you are telling me I should have put a 100 psi on my* 1/2 " drive *impact wrench that was not budging a frozen caliper bolt with 80 pounds running it ? Ever hear of shear point ? That moment when metal reaches it stress point from being twisted.... and it breaks off ?

Oh, wait I got it. I bet this is what happens when a mechanic at a garage while doing someone's brake job, adds an extra $100.00 to a customers bill for their brake job....because all of those old rusty caliper bolts happened to just break off, when they tried to remove them ".


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I normally run about 110 psi to my impact [and other air tools] although the torque plays a bigger part than the psi. Paying attention will usually let you know if you are fixing to break a stud/bolt.


4-5 yrs ago my stepson had a jeep liberty. I was replacing his brakes and broke one of his wheel studs so I had to make another trip to the parts store before I could finish. A few months later he bought tires and the tire shop broke 2 more studs BUT they replaced them with no extra charge!


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm just stating what the impact requires to work as it's designed. Pretty much any air tool I own specs 90 psi at the tool with the trigger pulled. More air pressure makes the hammers inside impact harder. The more powerful two stage compressor builds higher pressures so that I can set the regulator and maintain the required pressure at all times. I don't ever have to wait for the compressor to kick on before the gun will have enough power to break a lug nut loose. 

In most situations a little more power will bust it loose. On occasion you might break a bolt, you might any way you go, it's kinda the nature of the beast. An impact will remove difficult or stuck bolts MUCH more often than you can do it by hand. That is where the impacting comes in, sometimes just letting it hammer on the bolt for a few seconds is all it takes. Sometimes you couldn't turn the bolt with a 4' ratchet, if you did it would probably snap right off, but an impact can often get it knocked loose, worked back and forth and successfully removed.

Time is money. There are sometimes situations where it makes a lot more sense to work carefully, switch directions, work the bolt loose, hammer back and forth until it turns freely and comes out. Places where getting the broken bolt out would be expensive or difficult. In these cases I'll try the impact first, if penetrating oil and the impact doesn't work I'll move to heating, or letting it soak with penetrant. In some cases you just can't win no matter how hard you try. Very rarely do I ever break a bolt with an impact. If I do it's because I just didn't really care whether it came loose or if it broke off. That's usually a situation where I have a through bolt with a nut that can easily be replaced or the bolt threads into a worn part that's being replaced anyway. In these cases is where I'll sometimes just crank the pressure up and hammer til it either comes loose or breaks. 

I work with impacts from a little 1/4 inch drive to a giant 1.5" drive that I use on some of the heavy, high pressure piping at work. If that doesn't work, or in some cases it just isn't big enough, then we can break out the Hydro-Torque to apply thousands of ft pounds of torque. Yes, I have 2-3+ inch bolts that require 4000-5000 lb ft during assembly. These bolts hold together high pressure converters and associated piping that operates at nearly 5000 psi.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Strange how this tool ends up being called a impact gun, rather than a wrench... by most of its users.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Well, it is an impact wrench shaped like a gun :wink2:


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Makes sense Mark. 

I am going to tell my wife to start calling her hand held hair dryer, a hair gun.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I thought they sounded very similar to the .30 cal. machine gun shooting bullets about 3 ft. over my head while crawling the infiltration course. Even though they look more like a pistol I'm callen um a gun.:smile:Call um a impact pistol if ya like.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Ever had a wobble socket or u-joint adapter and socket come off the bolt and come flying out at you? If so it'll become easier to think of it as a gun! 

You get all crammed into some awkward position, arms threaded up through the cross member or frame rails, using extensions, u-joints or flex sockets and then you finally think you're ready. You pull the trigger only to have everything come flying at you from what seems like every direction. Nope, guess I wasn't ready after all.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

iamrfixit said:


> Ever had a wobble socket or u-joint adapter and socket come off the bolt and come flying out at you? If so it'll become easier to think of it as a gun!
> 
> You get all crammed into some awkward position, arms threaded up through the cross member or frame rails, using extensions, u-joints or flex sockets and then you finally think you're ready. You pull the trigger only to have everything come flying at you from what seems like every direction. Nope, guess I wasn't ready after all.


Kind of makes one think he should have considered that cycle helmet.:vs_laugh:


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Here's some tough impacting duty for you. 

We had to remove 368 bolts in these tubes last year. There are 46 separate flanges with 8 bolts each. This is the removal of 1 bolt, most all of the rest came out the same way and it took two full work days. This is about a $7000 dollar, 1.5" drive, two man impact. There is no possible way anyone could hold the wrench, it has to come around and contact a neighboring tube for the nut to break loose. Access is difficult to the bottom side and the wrench operator must be very careful to keep their hands where they don't get caught. Hitting the trigger with a hand in the way could pinch off a finger pretty quick with this kind of torque. The process temp flowing through these tubes runs over a thousand degrees so even with an ample coating of never seize the bolts can get very stuck. The sound from this "gun" really puts me in mind of a top fuel dragster during the staging process.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Imagine how long those 368 bolts would have taken to torque or remove before impacts were invented and you would have used a torque multiplier.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Imagine how long those 368 bolts would have taken to torque or remove before impacts were invented and you would have used a torque multiplier.



Ugh!
The plant was built in the early 60's, I started in the 80's. The first fifteen years or so I worked there we had hardly any power tools, only worn out or poor quality stuff that had little to no power. I've been in on opening the tubes using mostly hand tools. Had to break them loose by heating with a torch, using long ratchets and lots of man power and they were pretty much all re-tightened by hand. These bolts are only torqued to 175 during assembly but the heat really sticks them tight. It does take about 3 laps around each flange to get the gasket crush and all the bolts to 175.


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