# Bathroom Paint Streaking



## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello,

A little while back I painted my master bathroom using Behr ultra Satin Enamel paint. Ever since I notice the paint above the shower stall is streaking and in some places is actually putting a few blue runs on the wall tile. Every so often I take a paper towels and wipe down the wall which helps for a few days but then it starts back up again.

The paper towel always has blue residue from the paint as well - but I don't notice it fading anywhere, but it's definitely rubbing off on the towel.

The bathroom is around 200 sq feet and I usually leave the door open since the only vent fan is above the toilet which is in its own room inside my bathroom (not sure why the builder didn't put one in the main bath area as well). It barely has the suction power to hold up a dryer sheet anyway.

Any ideas why it streaks? The previous paint didn't do this and was more on the flat side.

Reason i'm asking is because I want to paint my guest bath - the current paint doesn't run and is also more on the flat side but since is much smaller (around 50sq ft) I don't want to magnify the issue of my master since the humidity level is 10 fold in the guest bathroom due to the smaller size. It has a vent but it too has crappy suction.

Should I try a flatter finish?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

That is super odd.... I know blue is often added to whites to make them brighter. Doesn't make sense though that the pigment would be bleeding out like that. Maybe the paint wasn't mixed well ? Hard to think of a technical answer to that. 
I have heard of enamel streaking in a bathroom once before. I assumed it was a special case, since enamel use is common in baths. Usually with no problems. 
Maybe a bher issue, or a bad batch. I have got a few gallons that didn't get shaken after tinting and had blobs of pigment.


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## retfr8flyr (Mar 17, 2013)

Just use some decent paint. Go to SW and pick up some of their Bath paint http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...erringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/paint/ or you can use their SuperPaint, as it also works well.


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

I thought Behr was supposed to be a really good brand of paint?

Here is a picture but it's not the best since I just wiped it down s few days ago - before it was 10 times worse. You can also see it a lot more in the sunlight. The streaks were all over on top of the stall from the ceiling to the tile. 

Keep in mind the last time I used the shower in there was early this morning.

Do you think egg shell would fair better?


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## clambake6 (Sep 7, 2012)

On the label on the front of the can...does it say what base it is (white base, pastel base, deep base, something like that)?

That's a relatively deep color,and I'd be curious to know what base it was mixed in.

As Jmayspaint said, it's probably a batch issue.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Here is what it is. You need another proper fan

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-contractors/surfactant-leaching


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

Interesting article - that almost suggests user error and not bad batch - I guess I'll have to contact Behr and see what they say. They have excellent customer service. I did more research on leaching and that's exactly what i'm experiencing.

I've painted nearly every room in my house with Behr and the only other place I had an issue was with the deck stain. They covered the cost of 4 gallons of stripper and cleaner plus 3 gallons of stain so it could be redone!

The base number is "7753" I'm not sure how dark it is but I would think its on the darker side.

My wife and I couldn't find a color we liked so we took one of the sample colors we purchased and added some white into it until we found the shade we liked and then had HD color match it from a sample we painted on a paint stick.

We painted in February when the humidity was low and didn't use that bathroom for 2-3 days afterward so it could dry.


EDIT:: I called up Behr and they said its usually normal for humid areas and that the paint could take up to 4 weeks of low humidity to fully dry in humid places like a bathroom. 

They said the leaching won't hurt the actual paint and that it should eventually self-correct. They recommended using a sponge, warm water and dish detergent to wipe gently then let air dry overnight. They said this will help speed up the auto correction.

They also said if wiping it down doesn't correct it within a few weeks that they will reimburse the cost for new paint to have it re-painted.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Hiya Adg...

Let me begin with what your problem isn't. This problem is not a "bad batch" of paint, nor is this the result of paint not being mixed thoroughly, I s'pose it's possible that the wrong base could've been used - but, even if, that's not the primary cause of this issue. It is not necessarily the result of a low quality paint and it is definitely not surfactant leaching. 

The situation you're experiencing is not even an uncommon phenomenon - matter-o-fact it is very common. What you've described is colorant leach, not surfactant leach. It is very common when finish latex paints are subjected to humidity and condensation. With any paint film, your colorants (tinting pigments) are very close to the film's surface. A latex film, which softens when exposed to heat and humidity anyway, is not an impervious coating - in other words, it can absorb moisture (condensation) - as the moisture is released from the film, it sometimes brings traces of tinting colorants from beneath the film to the surface (thus the blue color on your paper towel)...(don't use paper towels, btw). Even if it doesn't bring traces of colorant to the surface (that can be wiped off), the absorbed moisture can/will/does cause those same to "blanch" (lighten) only to resume their color after the surface is entirely dry (usually). This happens with all colors, including white - but is way more noticeable with darker colors. After the film dries and the color returns, often times the drip lines can still be seen (usually from a parallax angle) and appear as a slightly flatter sheen than the original film.

A lower sheen product is not the answer due to the pigment load differences between sheened and flat products (I'll be happy to explain that, bit it'll require a couple more paragraphs of this riveting prose to do so). At this point, suffice it to say that while a lower sheened product may not "show" as much of this colorant leach as another product may, the problem is till there and could result in additional problems later (film degradation, mold/mildew, etc.).

The problem is humidity. You need to minimize the amount of steam generated and stop the walls from being the point where this steam condensates. Start with your exhaust fan - placement of the fan isn't as important as the amount of air it's capable of moving. 200 square feet is kind of a large bathroom and you'll need a fan powerful enough to accommodate that size room. If changing the exhaust fan isn't an option, a portable fan will help, at least temporarily - even opening windows will help.

Other ways to minimize this issue is to take shorter, not-so-hot showers - and/or, and I realize this not the time of year to be saying this, raise the room (specifically wall) temperatures to alter the dew point away from the walls (keep in mind that by doing this, the steam is still going to condensate somewhere - trust me on this).

Repaint if you must, but I would not recommend trying a lower sheened product - nor would I consider anything other than a top quality acrylic product - but without addressing the steam, condensation and air movement issues, you may just end up in the same situation you're in now. I hope this info is helpful to you - good luck and let us know how things work out.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

I didn't see your last post before submitting mine so I gotta couple things to add...While I think Behr was probably addressing the same thing I described (colorant leach versus surfactant leach), they made a couple of curious statements...(1) it is true that the longer an acrylic finish is allowed to cure in a dry atmosphere, the less probable the happenstance of leaching will occur. Is that a realistic expectation though? Is it realistic for a mfr of an interior use product to expect their consumers to paint a bathroom and not expose it to what's considered the normal "ravages" of heat, humidity, steam and condensation for 4 weeks? If so, why wouldn't that clearly be marked on the label in the app & care instructions? ...(2) if they were in fact addressing surfactant leaching, rarely (in interior environments) will surfactant leaching "self-correct" - when that happens inside, it often requires multiple clean-water washings (being careful not to scrub) to remove surfactant - and many times may even require a vinegar solution wash, followed by a clean water rinse to correct. So let's say they weren't talking of surfactant, but rather colorant leaching - rarely will colorant leach self correct, for the compositional reasons I mentioned earlier. The actual color run may diminish somewhat, but the streaking will most likely reappear each time the walls get wet...(3) many people on this here forum won't agree with me regarding this next statement, but applying just a little logic and common sense will prove my point. Never - never - use dishwashing liquid to wash painted walls with...if this were actually surfactant leaching (it's not), this type of detergent may Actually exasperate the problem. If it's colorant leach (it is), dishwashing soaps leave a residue (surfactant) on the surface not a whole lot unlike the very component that IS the problem of surfactant leaching. Dishwashing detergents are great for grease cutting and general cleaning, but they all contain lotions and emollients to protect your skin from caustic burn - these emollients penetrate and softens/compromises a paint film, gather dirt and provide food source for mildew and can make repainting difficult. A better detergent to use would be non-sudsing Dirtex or Soilax powder.

Again, I hope this info is more useful than confusing - peace.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Curses...I'm typing on an I-pad this morning and my big, fat, stupid fingers can't seem to always hit the right keys - then I can't figure out how to correct my errors, so apologies for all the spelling errors


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

No worries - thanks for the great information. Where can I find non-sudsing detergent ? Would my HE laundry detergent or dishwasher detergent work? Both are non sudsing I believe.

I agree no use for 4 weeks is very unrealistic - even the rep said that she realized it was too.

I can add an additional vent fan, but I just find it weird the old paint never had this issue and my guest bath currently does not have an issue with this in its current state.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I wonder if a product like 'Aura bath and spa' would be more resistant to these issues.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

If I can interject a bit here: no don't use your laundry or your dishwasher detergents, no matter how low-foam they might be. The reason has to do with residues and rinsing versus foaming or not. Dirtex (and I believe **** 'n Span - but I may be wrong) are non-residual, no-rinse products and thus don't interfere with the subsequent layer of paint...Laundry detergents may contain other surfactants that may be low foam but leave a residue.

I think the point ricknowspaint was making is that this 'leaching' - call it surfactant or colorant - they're all part of the water-soluble components of a paint formulation - is due to an excess of these same components that comes from the addition of so much colour to the paint i.e to make it that deep a colour blue. 

Good paint formulators try to minimize these components so that the paint film is created quickly - by the choice of ingredients. Simplistic explanation, I know...but when you add colours to a paint, you are precisely adding an excess of these components that come out of solution under certain weather conditions - like high humidity. 

I am not sure whether this happens with the better brands of paints; I have a feeling it doesn't. Behr is not what I would call a 'better' brand of paint...

So what's the solution?

Since it doesn't really harm the finished paint film, I'd continue to blot it up and wait for it to subside - which it will in time. You are just helping along what is meant to happen anyway by doing that i.e those water-soluble components are meant to evaporate over time.

Hope I haven't spoken out of turn.


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

No - I appreciate all the great advice!


Just trying to understand though - maybe I'm on information overload but would it be best to use solely warm water and a rung out sponge? Or a product like **** and span?

If I use **** and span should I mix with anything or just spray it on the wall and wipe down with a soft dry sponge? Should I wash out the sponge in-between wipes to get the residue off?


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

OK, we may be talking at cross-purposes here...I think the point that was being made was that - _if you need a detergent to wash the walls, _then use Dirtex for example, not dishwasher or laundry detergents. 

But I don't think ricknowspaint was advocating for you to wash the walls at all in this instance - at least that's not the way I read his post. He was making a point about washing walls in general. 

That being said, I wouldn't wash your walls at all, no need to, so forget about **** and Span. I would use your sponge and warm water and blot up the drips, ring it out, and repeat. Some varaition on that theme, I reckon. Nothing else; as I said, the problem will correct itself in time.


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

If the humidity is not being removed with a fan which has sufficient suction, it has to go somewhere, usually on the painted walls. This is regardless of the paint product being applied. Production batches of paint are not at fault here, even though it is a common cause for blame. These batches are usually from 4200-9000 gallons, depending on the manufacturer and the product.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

If you can't update your exhaust fan at least plug in a box fan and run it after showers/baths. This may minimize the leaching until you can update the exhaust situation.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

surfactant leach.

colorant leach

something is leaching :yes:


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

**** and Span used to be basically TSP did'nt it? I did not know it was still available.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

adgjqetuo said:


> I thought Behr was supposed to be a really good brand of paint?


It's good enough not to do that, unless there is some other condition wrong (bad substrate, or the article chris linked to, etc.)

Interestingly enough, I was just doing a job (not paint related) in a house with a bathroom with a very similar looking problem, and a very similar color. I can tell you their fan was very wimpy, and also wasn't connected to the vent tube. It was venting directly into the small attic space, which is itself humid in our area in summer. I reconnected the vent, and I'm curious to see if anything looks different next week.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_"It's good enough not to do that, unless there is some other condition wrong (bad substrate, or the article chris linked to, etc.)"
_
​Or you could look at it another way: in order to get a paint not to do that (i.e not to leach out the water-soluble portion of the formulation at given levels of humidity) may require $$$ research and development into this well-known phenomenon - and that may just raise the price per gallon over the $10 limit that Behr has for their paints. Others can afford this research - it all comes down to the choice of ingredients - others cannot.

Do we really hear this happening to other brands of paint as often as we do about Behr?


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

jagans said:


> **** and Span used to be basically TSP did'nt it? I did not know it was still available.


 
All powdered cleaners of this sort usually contain one of the phosphate salts - be it TSP, TSPP or STP - put in there for a number of cleaning-related properties they all have, and this during the days when phosphates weren't as frowned upon as they are now. Nowadays you'd grab a liquid cleaner - which are basically the same only diluted for convenience. 

The % of phosphate used to be anywhere between 30 and 60%, something like that. So there wasn't room for much else in there, that's why they didn't streak as much as modern products do. But **** n' Span is a long-standing standard still used commercially for the same cleaning tasks as it once was. 

Another standard was 'Mr. Clean' - the original - liquid. But it would not do in this application.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Where I am the code for bathrooms is an exhaust fan OR a window in the bathroom. Well in a lot of the developments it must have been easier and cheaper to install small windows than fans and guess how many people open their windows when they take a shower. So we see a lot of moisture related issues in the bathrooms. So far the best fix I have seen is a good fan. But the fan is only a place to start. You can buy the biggest, best fan out there, but if you don't vent it correctly you will only be changing one problem for another. Such as vent into the attic with all the moisture that space will quickly fill with mold and mildew. Vent into the soffit better but still not good. Best vent out thru the roof. And don't use those flex hoses, use ridged and insulated tubes so there is no condensation issues. And give thought to location remembering the shower area is the cause of most problems.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ccarlisle said:


> Or you could look at it another way: in order to get a paint not to do that (i.e not to leach out the water-soluble portion of the formulation at given levels of humidity) may require $$$ research and development into this well-known phenomenon - and that may just raise the price per gallon over the $10 limit that Behr has for their paints. Others can afford this research - it all comes down to the choice of ingredients - others cannot.


Not buying it. This is another post that doesn't distinguish between Behr - a company - and a can of paint. There is no such thing as "Behr paint". (How many times do I have to say it?)

The OP said Behr Ultra - presumable Behr Premium Plus Ultra. It costs $35/gal. You can buy $10 paint, but Behr doesn't make one as far as I know. And yes, you hear problems with all kinds of cheap paints. Expensive ones, too.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> Where I am the code for bathrooms is an exhaust fan OR a window in the bathroom. Well in a lot of the developments it must have been easier and cheaper to install small windows than fans and guess how many people open their windows when they take a shower. So we see a lot of moisture related issues in the bathrooms. So far the best fix I have seen is a good fan. But the fan is only a place to start. You can buy the biggest, best fan out there, but if you don't vent it correctly you will only be changing one problem for another. Such as vent into the attic with all the moisture that space will quickly fill with mold and mildew. Vent into the soffit better but still not good. Best vent out thru the roof. And don't use those flex hoses, use ridged and insulated tubes so there is no condensation issues. And give thought to location remembering the shower area is the cause of most problems.


This is essentially a quick primer on bathroom venting in one single post.

In the old days, opening windows was more common than it is now, with central air.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_"Not buying it. This is another post that doesn't distinguish between Behr - a company - and a can of paint. There is no such thing as "Behr paint". (How many times do I have to say it?)"_​Yes there is. And most of us are discerning enough that we can say it is all generally medium grade. Perhaps to some they are above average - but overall, they aren't.
_The OP said Behr Ultra - presumable Behr Premium Plus Ultra. It costs $35/gal _​OK sorry; no, see, you paid $35 for a Behr paint but the same gallon cost them $10 to make; store mark-up accounts for the $25 difference. Same $10 cost as Walmart, almost same paint. Now by the same idea, Benjamin Moore is 'worth' $35 - although you'll pay $50. 

I'd rather buy "paint" than "store mark-up"...known facts.

When was the last post about surfactant leaching in Benjamin Moore paints to your knowledge?

​


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

The current vent in the bathroom as I stated earlier is above the toilet inside its own little room within our bathroom. The vent has an isolated pipe which goes through the attic and out the roof vent.

If I were to add an additional vent in the bathroom area, could I simply "Y" connection the piping in the attic so they both flow through the same roof vent?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ccarlisle said:


> When was the last post about surfactant leaching in Benjamin Moore paints to your knowledge?


When was the last post about surfactant leaching in a Behr paint to your knowledge?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ccarlisle said:


> Yes there is.


No, there isn't. There is also no such thing as "Sherwin Williams" paint. Sherwin Williams is a company, not a paint. SuperPaint is paint. ProMar 400 is paint.



ccarlisle said:


> OK sorry; no, see, you paid $35 for a Behr paint but the same gallon cost them $10 to make; store mark-up accounts for the $25 difference. Same $10 cost as Walmart, almost same paint. Now by the same idea, Benjamin Moore is 'worth' $35 - although you'll pay $50.


Sorry, any paint from BM that costs $50 does not cost BM $35. As to what paint is "worth" - impossible to discuss so I won't even try. But until I see some actual facts involving your specific research or experience, all your "Behr sucks" or any other such generic comments are "worth" what we paid for them.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Broken record.

I never said "Behr sucks" - not in my vocabulary.

Have a good life.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

symantics:laughing:


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

OP here ... Is anyone able to answer my follow up question...?

"The current vent in the bathroom as I stated earlier is above the toilet inside its own little room within our bathroom. The vent has an isolated pipe which goes through the attic and out the roof vent.

If I were to add an additional vent in the bathroom area, could I simply "Y" connection the piping in the attic so they both flow through the same roof vent?"


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

If it's close enough to each other Yes.


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## KD PAINTING (Nov 8, 2012)

Looks like you don't have proper ventilation and the paint is holding up moisture. Try re-painting it with a moisture resistant quality paint from B.Moore or SW and try to keep one of your windows open for ventilation.

Good Luck!


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