# milling own pine tongue and groove



## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

ok couldnt attach last photo here is another one


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I would make my own ---But then again I already own a planer and have a good router table.

Making your own transitions allows you to create just the right width and shape for the situation.

You know you are looking for an excuse to get a planer!

Seriously--once you own one you will find your work will improve in quality,speed and creativity.

Set your self up----Mike---


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

If I had the $$$....... http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/planers.cfm

A friend of mine has one, and all I can say is WOW!

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

If you’re looking for an excuse to buy tools then go for it. If you’re into woodworking a planer and router is a must. 

I doubt you’ll save money on one project though, my T&G bits alone cost $130.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> If you’re into woodworking, a planer and router is a must.


Absolutely!! I love mine and use them both frequently. I cannot imagine trying to make my 'magic boxes' without them!
I wish I could afford the woodmaster my friend has though. He spent over $5,000 for that, some molding bits, and the vacuum setup. *Color me VERY jealous!* He (we) ran off over 5,000 sf of Australian Jarrah flooring in single pass mode and it was awesome. Ran off tons of Brazilian walnut too, and both those are very hard woods. Made in USA too, of course. If you can afford top of the line, I recommend this molder/planer highly. Now if they'd just pay me to say that.... :laughing:

DM


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

I live in Missouri...Chillicothe to be exact...bout an hour northeast of Kansas city. I'll add that to my profile..thanks!

So the dewalt planer is round 400, the routing table is round 200, and the t&g router bit is round 80..then gotta buy the wood to cover the appox 1800 to 2000 sq ft (havent actually measured yet)

You think Ill be money ahead going this way instead of ordering the pine t&g? I will still have to cut and mill the doug fir for the transitions

Whats your thoughts?

photo shows some of the pine t&g up in the loft that was ordered


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm guessing the the cost of having the flooring made at the mill is a good value.

They use machines most of us could not afford--allowing them to plane--size and shape in one pass.

Often the cost is not much and the work is better that we could make with affordable tools.

Still,You need a planer and router set up for the installation and custom work---

A job site router table can be made for almost nothing and will out perform most store bought ones.

I consider 5 foot width to be a minimum if you are working long stock---That's hard to buy but easy to build.---Mike---


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

The question of cost always comes down to what you think your time is worth. Many DIY folks enjoy what they are doing, and price their time at zero. I know when I built my cabinets for the kitchen, if I had valued my time anywhere near what my regular job pays, I would have bought them from a custom woodworking shop. However, I enjoy building cabinets, so in the end it was worth it, not financially, but psychically. My guess is you will find the same thing, there is no way you can compete economically if you put a reasonable cost to your time, especially after you account for equipment purchase, setup, bits etc. But if your time has zero or very low cost, have at it. But I suggest buying quality tools, there is nothing worse than dealing with machines that don't work well, break down, or are so poorly built they are dangerous.


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

ok..so i am seriously thinking of doing own t&g flooring..my uncle has let me borrow a rigid 13" planer..its really kool! So I would get bosch router table and the router bit etc...upstairs loft has pine tongue and groove pine...looks like white pine...1x6...

My question is can I use the 1x6 white pine from lowes? Do I need to start with a thicker board like a 2x6? I would route it the plane down to the 3/4"...all opinions are welcome!


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I would get the material kiln dried at a lumber yard or plan on spending a couple days sighting lumber at Lowe's they don't bother to check for 2 out of 10 pieces that might be flat and straight enough to survive the planer and router. 

I would plane the lumber first and then cut your T&G. You might just as well do the first cut sanding on the stuff too. 

Pine is beautiful and of course was used upstairs for ages in antique homes that had more expensive and showy hardwoods downstairs. It is not exactly the most durable of flooring though. You sure you want pine?


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

yep..pine is what was put on loft and the roof is t&g pine..rest of house is doug fir..I will call local lumber company and ask how much for kiln dried..so are you saying get the 2x6?


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## JoeLena (Nov 30, 2010)

chulett said:


> yep..pine is what was put on loft and the roof is t&g pine..rest of house is doug fir..I will call local lumber company and ask how much for kiln dried..so are you saying get the 2x6?


No. If you get it at a good yard they should have unfinished boards closer to the thickness you want. 4/4 or 5/4 and plane to what you want,


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Indeed. No reason to plane off that much wood or lay down a floor that thick. Tell the lumber yard what you are up to and that you will take the stock in whatever length so long as it is straight, flat and around the same starting color. Unless you are set on 6' lengths for some reason? The lumber yard sells by the board foot (plus the length trim cost) so will not care. If you can be flexible you may actually save a few schillings as your order might enable them to rotate inventory a bit. 

Make sure you ask that the sight the lumber for you. A good supplier will especially if they know your intended purpose. A box store could care less and they obviously do not yet have a video to teach the minimum wage aprons how to turn a board on edge or flat to see what is going on. 

Do plan on having a place to keep the dry lumber that way until you are ready to work with it. And hey! The lumber yard will probably drop it off for no or minimal charge if you play your cards right. 

In addition to kiln dried, discuss the grade of lumber you can afford. Pine is very "naughty" stuff (old joke I know) in the lower grades. Again, the box stores seem to just toss it all together.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

A time saving tip on milling the tongue and groove---

Set up two routers ---one for the tongue and another for the groove--

Making your own router table will make the job easier and safer. Pick up a 3/4 " sheet of melamine covered particle board--cut it to about 3 foot wide--mount the routers under the sheet --make two fences --screw the left hand side and use a clamp to hold the right hand side.

You will appreciate the long table----make or buy feather boards to ensure a safe and consistent cut.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Orrrrrr..... buy the woodmaster with routers and rip saw, and run it all off in one pass. 
Then sell it on CL when you're done to recover most of the cost. 
I gotta tell you, when I used it, it was awesome, and that was pretty hard wood. It'd FLY through pine. 

DM


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the info! I was mowing place today and noticed I had some 3/4 x 12 boards stacked that was left over from construction...It has been exposed to the weather for about a year now and has turned grey..I ran a piece thru the planer and after clearing to grey away I had some beautiful pine!

Question I have is:

It planed down to 9/16 thickness..Im not sure all the boards will require this, but if they all do...can I use the 9/16 for floors?

The lengths vary, but most are 16 ft long

If I can use that thickness...can I still t&g them, or should I biscuit them on the edges and ends, nail em with the pneumatic and also face nail?

What are my options here! Dont wanna pass up free wood! (wait I did pay for it already!)


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If the tongue is a bit lower than center you should be fine---I suggest staples not cleats for that.


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

Thank you sir!

I read about biscuit joining em..any ideas? I guess t&g is better? Any insights?


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

Ok, hold On! I messed up! I mean a rabbit joint! Use a rabbit joint to create the overlap..That would be faster than forming the t&g, and get the same effect..right?

Sorry bout the mix up on the terminology! Im still green!


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

chulett said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> I read about biscuit joining em..any ideas? I guess t&g is better? Any insights?


Biscuits are thin but fun but have no integral support of their own and are simply nice for keeping things in line. Great for planked tabletops and things. Maybe I am missing something but I don't see why they would be recommended for flooring at all? I guess they must sell biscuits and biscuit cutters for thicker stuff but wouldn't you have to spend a ton of time lining up up the slots and gluing both sides of board edges. 

And how in the World could you nail a side biscuited floor except down through the top? Could look cool I guess until the nails, or screws started discoloring in pine or coming up and tearing socks. You are going to need that T&G, I think, just to get the floor down and not squeaking (much) are you not? 

And by the way, before I forget? As you cut the T&G in relation to thickness of your floorboards, do see how flexible your floor nailer is with regard to positioning the nails? It would be a shame to see your beautiful T&G cut to low or two high for the nailer to hit on target?

Yes of course you have to think through joinery for the perfectly square ends of your boards.

Just a comment and a compliment if you will take it. You seem willing to learn and take this all on. You can do all this with a router (although I love the idea of couple) and some bits. Or a joiner or something if you found one with sharp blades cheap. 

Practice pieces sport! Don't start with the 6 or 16 footers the first pass through the routers.


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

Sorry for the mistake! I was meaning to say shiplapping the pine with a rabbet joint!

have been doing some research on shiplapping..I have a pneumatic floor nailer, and am wondering if I can use it on the bottom rabbet joints? I realize I will still have to face nail to prevent cupping! 

The reason I had to plan the 1x12 down to 9/16 is because of the cupping!


So shiplap or t&g?

So many choices!


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I think I am starting to lose where you are headed. You now think you might want to shiplap the joints and not T&G them? For a floor? And straight (or even angle) nail (or however fasten down) through the pristine wood surface, the shiplap joints and on into the subfloor? :no:

First of all you will be reducing the strength of the flooring at each shiplap joint by the amount you have to Dado off of each side and in far enough into the width of the board to be able to plunk a straight plunked fastener down through. Instead of a solid piece of would carved up only with a T&G you now have half or something of each matching depth of board missing to line up with each for an even top surface. 

If nothing else, I think it will look extremely goofy. :laughing:

You are on the right track with T&G I think. You do need joinery for the ends or you will have to straight nail ALL OF THEM but you figured that out. You can always countersink some screws and cut some pine plugs to look cool for that part of things.


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## chulett (Jun 20, 2010)

lol ok! Sorry to confuse you! I got alot going thru my mind right now!

So t&g is the way to go!

I will use t&g and still face nail since the boards are 12" (sites suggest 3 nails per joist)

Should I rip a small relief on the bottom of the board and then apply poly to help prevent cupping? Some sites say no relief cut is needed for pine, but I dont want them to cup!

Also, can I t&g a board that is 9/16" thick? I am sure I can! Gotta figure out how!

Yes, I am making it hard on myself tackling this project, but I love to work on this stuff, and it is a physical get away from the stresses of my job!:furious:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I realize things were starting to run in strange different directions. I was not suggesting there is anything different between a biscuit joint and one T&G other than in one case you have to destroy wood for a groove or two in two pieces of lumber, use an insert and somehow fix it in place. With T&G you probably do extreme damage too but at least both sides of the material remain,sweat and dry out together and one hopes for many years in the case of the flooring integral.

Anyhow, I also realized our OP is doing a great job of trying to figure this out and this is now one of my fave all time posts. One of the things that troubles me is the discussion of joinery and how it is used. I found this description of joinery which is not bad and hope others like it.

http://www.raygirling.com/wwjoints.htm


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