# SW ProClassic Questions



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Twister said:


> Guys -
> 
> Some basic questions on using Sherwin-Williams ProClassic acrylic latex (semi-gloss) for wood trim.
> 
> ...


Get a QUALITY 2 1/2 in brush
It levels well if you get enough paint on to begin with
I don't use flotrol
I don't spray


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Twister said:


> Guys -
> 
> Some basic questions on using Sherwin-Williams ProClassic acrylic latex (semi-gloss) for wood trim.
> 
> ...


If your having trouble with the 2" brush I wouldn't suggest a bigger one.

And yes a "few" brushstrokes sounds like your overworking it. See PM I sent it may help.

It self levels very well.

Floral will not change the color but it will effect the self levelers that are in the paint. If you feel it needs to be thinned I would recommend a little water.

I usually use advance for spray and PC for brushing.

Another thing about PC is it tends to run and sag pretty easy thinning will add to this problem. so using thin coats is better.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

One tip with the ProClassic is work in smaller sections. If you're cutting in SuperPaint at the top of a wall, you can go 3 feet without lifting the brush. With the ProClassic on baseboard, cut that down to 6 inches. The wet edge stays a lot fresher if you are moving it 6 times as often.

A second coat helps too. If you are planning to do 2 coats anyway, you don't feel the temptation to make it perfect the first time. So you don't futz with it too much.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I just figured he could get more paint on with a 21/2 and he would not have to fuss with it as much.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> See PM I sent it may help.


If you've got painting secrets that are too good to post on a public forum, PM them to me too, please!


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

mathmonger said:


> If you've got painting secrets that are too good to post on a public forum, PM them to me too, please!


I was just answering a PM he sent me. It wasn't anything I haven't posted before just my experience with PC.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

mathmonger said:


> One tip with the ProClassic is work in smaller sections. If you're cutting in SuperPaint at the top of a wall, you can go 3 feet without lifting the brush. With the ProClassic on baseboard, cut that down to 6 inches. The wet edge stays a lot fresher if you are moving it 6 times as often.
> 
> A second coat helps too. If you are planning to do 2 coats anyway, you don't feel the temptation to make it perfect the first time. So you don't futz with it too much.


why? As in... why would someone put up with this? This is taking a LOT of time and money out of a professionals pocket. I can see a diy'er who isn't paying themselves not caring, but a pro is losing a lot of labor to mess with something this much. Just wondering.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

klaatu said:


> why? As in... why would someone put up with this? This is taking a LOT of time and money out of a professionals pocket. I can see a diy'er who isn't paying themselves not caring, but a pro is losing a lot of labor to mess with something this much. Just wondering.


I was comparing cutting a ceiling to painting a baseboard, which isn't really a fair comparison. I was just trying to make the point. In reality, you'll never have enough paint on one brush to paint 3 feet of baseboard - no matter what kind of paint you're using. 

Painting baseboard is a little tedious and it's tempting for a DIYer to slap that 3 foot long stripe of paint down the middle. You feel like you're accomplishing something. But that takes time. Then you have to get more paint which takes even more time. Then cutting the edges. That's when the wet edge starts to get stale. 

One fat rectangle of paint is better than 3 long skinny stripes of paint. But it doesn't take any more time. 

This is true for all paints, but the ProClassic is particularly fussy. Being a quasi professional painter, I do about a foot of baseboard at a time regardless of the type of paint because that's what the brush can hold.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

IMO, I'm not really sure why you'd use ProClassic acrylic to begin with. I could be wrong, but for me personally if I need really top results, I'm going to use either an oil or a waterborne alkyd. (Remember that ProClassic comes in all 3 versions.) If I'm not going to use the waterborne alkyd, then I'm going to be using SuperPaint instead for the convenience and coverage. You can get good results with SuperPaint if not high end results.

If people are finding ProClassic acrylic to fussy, then what's the point? You're losing the high end finish and you're still putting up with fussy.


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## CyrusR (Mar 16, 2015)

I know this isn't an "I hate this product site," and you've already bought the paint, but I can't help myself. 

It's not just you. PC acrylic is just hard to use. Sherwin's scientists have managed to make a product that is simultaneously too thick to brush, and too runny to stay put; a product that sets up in seconds, punishing the slightest overwork with horrible brush marks, yet will continue to move on you long past the point where you can do anything about it. For all this hassle, the appearance and characteristics of the final product are nothing special. It's not particularly durable, not particularly high-hiding, not particularly adhesive, and its block resistance is unexceptional. It's not bad, but it's not particularly good, either. 
Rant off. 

Is the trim you're painting the factory-primed stuff? If so, you should sand and prime it before painting. Some factory primer is such low quality you can wipe it off with a wet paper towel, and the wood often has rough spots that be glaringly obvious once there's glossy paint on them.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

mathmonger said:


> I was comparing cutting a ceiling to painting a baseboard, which isn't really a fair comparison. I was just trying to make the point. In reality, you'll never have enough paint on one brush to paint 3 feet of baseboard - no matter what kind of paint you're using.
> 
> Painting baseboard is a little tedious and it's tempting for a DIYer to slap that 3 foot long stripe of paint down the middle. You feel like you're accomplishing something. But that takes time. Then you have to get more paint which takes even more time. Then cutting the edges. That's when the wet edge starts to get stale.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I guess diy'ers really should be taking their time and not dry brushing their trim.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

CyrusR said:


> I know this isn't an "I hate this product site," and you've already bought the paint, but I can't help myself.
> 
> It's not just you. PC acrylic is just hard to use. Sherwin's scientists have managed to make a product that is simultaneously too thick to brush, and too runny to stay put; a product that sets up in seconds, punishing the slightest overwork with horrible brush marks, yet will continue to move on you long past the point where you can do anything about it. For all this hassle, the appearance and characteristics of the final product are nothing special. It's not particularly durable, not particularly high-hiding, not particularly adhesive, and its block resistance is unexceptional. It's not bad, but it's not particularly good, either.
> Rant off.
> ...


I can't add anything to this. I'm speechless I guess.


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## CyrusR (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks, klaatu. In my limited experience as a DIYer, if you want it to look really good, use Advance. If you don't have time to wait around for Advance, use Manor Hall, which gives a nicer, if somewhat glossier, finish than PC, while also being easier to use, more adhesive, and drying to a much harder finish with very quick block resistance (kind of smelly, though). If neither is an option for whatever reason, Behr Premium Plus or Behr Ultra with a bit of water or XIM match PC's performance while being vastly easier to use and costing a lot less.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

If nothing else, this thread points to a bit of a gap in the painting line-up of many paint companies............there just isn't a whole lot out there for fine finishing of woodwork to get that nice glossy or semi-glossy finish that's 1) reasonably priced, and 2) is easy to work with.

PC is difficult to work with, but once you figure out the nuances, it does produce a nice finish. I've done boatloads of kitchen cabinet work using PC and rarely have I had callbacks about runs, durability, hardness, etc. I warn everyone up front though that painting cabinets that are oak with a clear coat on them that you will have occasional yearly touch-ups from doors banging, kids running toys into them, etc. but that's to be expected, I guess, with any painted surface.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Take my word for it Advance is no piece of cake to brush the first couple times you use it either. As I said before I like PC for brush, Advance for spray, but both have their quirks. And Behr on trim I tried that a couple times NO THANKS.


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## Twister (Jul 5, 2009)

Guys - 

MANY thanks for all your replies. I read them days ago and I promise, I do appreciate all your advice. There's a lot going on in my life now so I'm limited in my time to reply. I will fully admit that I recognize I am the cause of my own problems. I'm a DIY-er remodeling my own home because I got tired of the "professionals" in my area simply not caring about doing a good job. Where I live is 100 miles away from decent sized cities and most (no, not all, but "most") tradesmen in this town know you are a captive customer and just don't care about treating customers well. I got sick of it and said I can do at least as good a job as they do. So, I'm learning as I go.

As far as painting trim by brush, I'd never done it before. I'd only sprayed, using SW ProClassic, which is why I'm using it on the trim I'm brushing now. In an attempt to not lose control of the paint I chose to use a smaller brush and brush the baseboards, door trim and wood in between the door trim (the casing?) in smaller sections in a small closet. The baseboards turned out ok because I was able to move a little faster (I previously inserted metal strips below the baseboard to protect the carpet). The closet doorway: I first painted ONLY the door trim on the inside of the closet, then after letting it dry I painted the door casing but only 1/2 of it (laterally) by painting _only_ as wide from the door trim edge over to _& including_ the 'door stop' (?") pieces, i.e., the 1/2" x 1" molded piece in the center of the door casing that the door physically touches when the door is closed. I did this with a Purdy 1 1/2" angled nylon & polyester brush and then tried a 2" Purdy angled nylon & polyester brush. 

I can see I caused my own problems (brush strokes) by simply going too slow and overworking the SW PC paint. To me, other than the brush strokes, this SW PC looks GREAT! It has a nice sheen, a crisp white color and subtly shows the wood grain (which I like). It's not the paint's fault, it's mine and I would love to learn how to brush it like a professional. I know I have to use more paint, move faster and not overwork it and just trust that it WILL level out!

Having said that....when doing trim, do most of you professionals (or even you experienced DIYers) like using *angled* brushes on trim and doorways or do you prefer to use a *straight-tipped* brush?

I can see the advantage of an angled sash brush on baseboards but what about on the door trim, etc?

(BTW, special thanks to ToolSeeker, Chrisn, mathmonger and Gymschu for all your specific advice.)


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't think I have ever purchased anything other than an angled brush for interior work. The 2 1/2" is my "go-to" brush for just about everything. Twister, if you can conquer PC, you can conquer just about any paint!


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

What gym said. I don't do exteriors anymore, so a 21/2 angled is all that's in my brush box.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> Take my word for it Advance is no piece of cake to brush the first couple times you use it either. As I said before I like PC for brush, Advance for spray, but both have their quirks. And Behr on trim I tried that a couple times NO THANKS.


Toolseeker, let's remember to talk actual paint, not just brand. You're mixing apples and oranges by mentioning Advance, PC, then Behr. Behr isn't an actual paint.

I've used Behr Ultra semi-gloss on trim. While I like Ultra on walls, I didn't find the coverage to be good enough to make it worth my while to switch from Advance or PC. If I want a high end finish, I don't mind dealing with sags and runs to get it. If I don't need it, then I want good coverage (like one coat with SuperPaint). Ultra didn't fit into either of those categories so I won't try it again unless I hear the formula changes.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Twister said:


> I'm a DIY-er remodeling my own home because I got tired of the "professionals" in my area simply not caring about doing a good job.


It's funny you mention that because caring is half the battle. If I hire someone to work with me, I don't care if they don't have all the knowledge because I'm willing to explain it to them if they're willing to learn. I don't care if they don't have all the skill yet because I'm willing to show them if they're willing to practice it. But one thing I can't tolerate at all is not caring. If you care, you have a good fighting chance. If you don't care, you have no chance.



Twister said:


> I did this with a Purdy 1 1/2" angled nylon & polyester brush and then tried a 2" Purdy angled nylon & polyester brush....Having said that....I can see the advantage of an angled sash brush on baseboards but what about on the door trim, etc?


I think that's a mistake. I use 2 1/2" or 3" brushes for almost all brushes. 2 1/2 angled sash for almost everything, except sometimes a 3" straight wall brush when I want more paint to move faster cutting in walls.

Amateurs use smaller brushes than they should almost all the time. Using the larger brush would help you with the overworking problem because it puts on more paint faster over more area so the left side isn't drying while you work on the right side, if that makes sense.

Which Purdy model do you have? They come in many different materials and dimensions, so the one you have might be too stiff, or not thick enough (for example 2 1/2" brushes come in many different thickness ranging from 1/2" to 3/4" with all points in between.)


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## Twister (Jul 5, 2009)

jeffnc said:


> It's funny you mention that because caring is half the battle. If I hire someone to work with me, I don't care if they don't have all the knowledge because I'm willing to explain it to them if they're willing to learn. I don't care if they don't have all the skill yet because I'm willing to show them if they're willing to practice it. But one thing I can't tolerate at all is not caring. If you care, you have a good fighting chance. If you don't care, you have no chance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



jeffnc - 

It's nice to know I'm not alone in my quest for a quality job I can be proud of. You guys on this thread seem to care plenty about doing a great job and I appreciate everyone's kindness in helping me.

Brushes: 

- Purdy 1 1/2" XL-Dale, nylon/polyester, 3/8" thickness at the ferrule. The brush's cardboard sleeve does not list a stiffness, but if feels to me like the 2" brush which says it is "medium stiff". 

- Purdy 2" XL-Dale, nylon/polyester, 7/16" thickness at the ferrule, says "medium stiff".

Stiff enough for trim?

(PS - Thx for everyone chiming in about the angled brushes. Good to know!)


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Well, first of all, like I said, I probably wouldn't use the regular acrylic version of ProClassic to begin with. I'd use the waterborne alkyd version, or some other paint such as Advance. That's assuming I wanted the smoothest finish. Otherwise I'd use some regular acrylic paint that goes on easier. So my comments below are biased by that.

I was curious why you asked if the brush were "stiff enough for trim". I think the stiffness of the brush relates to the paint and the environment as much as what you're painting. Generally thicker acrylic paints call for stiffer brushes, and warmer temperatures (exterior painting or working in a house with no AC) call for stiffer brushes. Lower viscosity paints, smoother finishes and cooler temperatures call for softer brushes.

If I were using a smooth finish trim brush, it wouldn't be the XL Dale. It's a little stiff and a little thin at 1/2" for the 2 1/2" model. I'd use a Nylox Glide probably in a Purdy brush, or maybe a Wooster Silver Tip.

But if you're good with a stiffer brush in general, you can get good results with them as well, but they at least have to have really high quality flagged tips.


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