# Heil GNE075B12 Water in teh tube between combustion blower and pressure switch



## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

I have this 7 year old furnace, it's 80+ insngle stage, made by international confort products corp. First 5 years, it runs great. Since last Winter, the rubber tube between combustion air blower and pressure switch constantly has water in it. If the tube is stuffed with water, the furnace is shut down. Once the water is removed, the furnace is back on and works fine. It takes about 3 to 5 days to get water to block the tube. I couldn't figure out where the water comes from and how to stop the water cumulated. 
I have enclosed a photo, the red tube has water in it, the black part is blower, and the white/reflecting light, is pressure switch. Should I open the combustion pipe to check it out?

Thanks you for any advice!


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Do you have a metal chimney that runs to the roof thru the interior of the home.?

Or does it exhaust into a brick chimney and did the installer put a liner in the chimney?

How long is the flue pipe connecting the furnace to the chimney?


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

Yep sounds like you need a Liner.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

It will cost you big bucks too. Beside it should been code for the company but one in


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

Quin said:


> I have this 7 year old furnace, it's 80+ insngle stage, made by international confort products corp. First 5 years, it runs great. Since last Winter, the rubber tube between combustion air blower and pressure switch constantly has water in it. If the tube is stuffed with water, the furnace is shut down. Once the water is removed, the furnace is back on and works fine. It takes about 3 to 5 days to get water to block the tube. I couldn't figure out where the water comes from and how to stop the water cumulated.
> I have enclosed a photo, the red tube has water in it, the black part is blower, and the white/reflecting light, is pressure switch. Should I open the combustion pipe to check it out?
> 
> Thanks you for any advice!


 
Dam you got a smart valve gas furnace. Good luck with that. Get ready to put out tons of money in the future.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Tator1076 said:


> It will cost you big bucks too. Beside it should been code for the company but one in


A liner is bit pricey but you don't have to make it sound so bad the OP thinks it'll cost thousands. It's in the mid hundreds.


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## newtech (Mar 21, 2009)

On the back of the pressure switch there is a small hole in it. Is is a vent. Make sure it is not plugged. (with dirt,dust....)

You can try to clean it out and see if it helps. ICP had problems with them plugging up, I have seen this happen way too many times.

I would recommnd getting a new pressure switch even if the cleaning helps.


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## JohnH1 (Jan 9, 2009)

Strange that nothing for 5 years and now only 3 to 5 days for a problem. I agree the possability for a liner but somthing els has changed to cause so much condentation. Has anything changed with the home, chimney or any work on the furnace recently? 
Low gas pressure and to high of airflow can also cause similer issues.


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## newtech (Mar 21, 2009)

As JohnH1 stated. " Low gas pressure high air flow."

Would also recomend checking the temp rise on the furnace.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Downdraft on the off cycle will cause that. Did you add a powerful JennAir cooktop fan or central vacuum or other device which exhaust lots of air.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all the comments, and wish everyone has a great holiday season.

To HVACLover:
I do have a metal chimney that runs to the roof thru the interior of the home. The furnace is in the basement, then it goes through floor1 and floor2, and last the space between roof and 2floor ceiling. 

The metail pipe has no insulation, see photo.

To Tator 1706:
May I ask what the liner is?

To Newtech, I could not find the small hole, the only opening for the pressure switch is the rubber tube. 

To JohnH1 and Yuri, The only change in my house is a new water tank installed in Sept 2006, and I had this problem Feb, 2008. the flue pipe from the Furnace and the water tank are jointed togather in the basement, see photo 2. Not sure if this caused any problem. Would it be possible the blower has water inside? 

Thanks you all again!


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

How warm is it in your basement? That water is condensation and caused by the water vapor in the smoke condensing inside that tube. If it is below 65F I would think that will cause it to condense faster. That furnace is notorious for that problem.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks, Yuri, I'm checking the tempature now.
do you know what the liner is?
So glad I can have your help.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

A liner is used in an old outdoor/outside the house old brick chimney. A single wall pipe which can get cold and have problems. Your chimney is internal and won't get cold, no problem.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

The basement currently is 68F, and Thermostat is in floor1, setting is 70F. but in the night, the thermostat is set to be 64.4F, I think the basement should be lower as 62F, therefore, what you suspected could be very true. 

Can I put insulation layer to cover the pipe in the basement, or even the pipe underneath the roof? 

Or I should increase the night time temparature? 

Glad that I can see some lights for my puzzle now

Thank you again!


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Your metal chimney does not look like B Vent.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

You may need to increase your night time temp. After the furnace is off for awhile the moisture in that tube condenses. The colder it is the faster and more it condenses. That is a BAD design for the location of that switch. I like units where the switch is above the inducer fan so any water in the tube flows downhill into the fan. Unfortunately you are stuck with that one. Night setback tstats only save 1-2% on your heating bill so don't feel bad if you leave it at 68. Try it there and see if the problem goes away.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks havclover.
Thanks Yuri, I have increased the setting to 68, will moniter to see if this solves the problem. I will update the thread in one or two weeks. 

Thanks you all!
Happy New Year!


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## sjoys (Jan 9, 2010)

Quin, Did it work? I am having the same issue. Want to find out before calling someone to take a look.

Thanks,


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

I have increased my night time temperature to 68F in floor 1. for now, I still need to release condensation water from the tube every 4 days. It seems one day longer, the amount of the water is just like 10 drops, half of a small spoon, when it blocks the tube, the furnace is down.

I have to continue to monitor, I'm not sure if my basement is still not warm enought.

I'm also wonder if I should add a insulation layer to cover ventaltion pipe inside the basemetn and the part under the roof.

Sjoys, sorry, I don't have an good answer for you yet. If I have any good result, I will post here.

Thanks


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

After increasing night time temperature to 21C, I need to release the water every 5 days. This is certainly better than 3 days, how can we totally fix this problem? Please help.

The pipe is B vent, there is a label on it.

Thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Whats the temp rise across the heat exchanger?


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

How about buying a longer hose and routing it over the inducer and then back down to the pressure switch? Any droplets in the tube would have to drain into the inducer when it shut off.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

To beenthere: where to measure "Whats the temp rise across the heat exchanger"? Thanks

To Marty S, what an idea!!! May I ask where to buy these type of hose? I live in Toronto, is Homedepot a good store? 

Will droplets cause any problem in the motor? 

Thanks very much!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If you don't have a probe that can be inserted into the supply and return duct at teh furnace.
Then taking them at the nearest supply and return register to teh furnace can work.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

Automotive store would be a better bet for vacuum hose. Moisture is coming from the inducer housing so a drop going back in won't hurt anything.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Bought clear vinyle tubing from Plumbing dept, Home Depot. Put it on right away. The clear tube shows that condensation happens when blower is running. When furnace is down, the condensation is actually stopped. So far it looks good, the water only accumulates in the inducer area. See photo attached. 

Thanks Marty for the great suggestion.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

That tubing is going to melt right at the induce housing


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Ya, that clear vinyl isn't able to take the heat.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

I will look for Silicone tubing in local stores. The vinyle one seems ok for now after about 24 hours, which is good, but I'm not sure if this indicates another problem: the temp at the inducer is too low? Is it normal to have condensation when the fan is blowing? 
On the other hand, there are some wind generated when blower is running and cooled down. I don't have a good way to measure the temp right away.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

id pull the inducer motor housing off also to make sure it hasnt become a water wheel in side there :wink:


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

The material is Watts: 3/8" x 1/4" x 10' Clear Vinyl Tubing
Tubing is manufactured from non-toxic FDA listed material.
Tensile Strength 2,550 PSI and can handle a pressure range of 85 to 165 PSI.
Brittle Point neg 42 degrees F
Maximum operating temperature 125 degrees F

I have shut down the furnace earlier on, and inserted a soft wire from inducer to inside, the wire is dry.
Thanks for all comments!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You can use automotive vacuum hose.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks, will try.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

The temp on the housing of the draft inducer is 100 degree C (212 F) at the end of a run (The house temp setting is 22C / 71.6F). The supply temp should be 20C / 60F. 

Is this normal? How much chance can the motor become "a water wheel" inside :laughing: ? (Thanks Plummen's comment) Although right now it seems ok, I'm not sure if it will last for a whole winter or several winters. 

The droplets don't seem accumulated very much at the static tap after three days. This is really good, and I no longer need to release the droplets every 4/5 days.




beenthere said:


> If you don't have a probe that can be inserted into the supply and return duct at teh furnace.
> Then taking them at the nearest supply and return register to teh furnace can work.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

I think you mean a 60°F temp rise across the heat exchanger.

So at the supply registers, it should be 120 to 130°F. is it?


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

"The supply temp should be 20C / 60F." is the basement room temperature, I assume this is the supply temp? not sure. This is the IN-taking, and the temp at housing is the OUT. correct?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

No.

Supply temp is the temp of the air blowing out of the registers.
The return temp is teh air that is being drawn into the furnace.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Ok, the temps are 
(1) Supply temp is 100 degree C (212 F) at Max
(2) The return temp is 20C / 60F. 

Thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Quin said:


> Ok, the temps are
> (1) Supply temp is 100 degree C (212 F) at Max
> (2) The return temp is 20C / 60F.
> 
> Thanks


Did you actually measure a 212°F temp at a supply register?

If so. Your furnace is operating in an unsafe condition, shut it off.
It would only be moving about 460 CFM. Or the manifold pressure is at 7".


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Correction, just moniter the moter runs again, I have noticed the temperature on the outside of the moter housing is about 167F max while the motor is still running at the end of a cycle. After the motor is off, then the temp goes up to 212F, then it cools down. 

Thanks BeenThere.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

Measure the supply air temp quin, not the flue gas temp. Poke a hole in the air duct and measure there. DON'T poke a hole in the flue pipe! If you're not positive what that means just ask.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Its the big ducts that you want to measure.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks, will try!


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## rcisguy (Feb 14, 2012)

I know this is an old thread.. But I have the same EXACT problem after replacing the combustion blower. Old blower needed replacing b/c of bearing noise and did not have any problem with condensate before. New one is producing condensate at the motor side of the tube appearing seconds after the motor starts up. Eventually a drop appears and blocks the vacuum, cycling the pressure switch/burners. If anyone could provide how or if this problem is corrected I'd really appreciate it. All the techs and installation company is clueless after contacting them, and I'm not interested in replacing the furnace as some have suggested. TIA.


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## dosy777 (Feb 6, 2012)

rcisguy said:


> I know this is an old thread.. But I have the same EXACT problem after replacing the combustion blower. Old blower needed replacing b/c of bearing noise and did not have any problem with condensate before. New one is producing condensate at the motor side of the tube appearing seconds after the motor starts up. Eventually a drop appears and blocks the vacuum, cycling the pressure switch/burners. If anyone could provide how or if this problem is corrected I'd really appreciate it. All the techs and installation company is clueless after contacting them, and I'm not interested in replacing the furnace as some have suggested. TIA.


 do not hijack a 2 year old thread.........start your own ......thanks


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## rcisguy (Feb 14, 2012)

dosy777: I'm not hijaking anything (?) I'm looking for the solution to the problem that started the thread. If the problem was solved, it would be great to see what the solution was. That's the point of these threads!


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

See my photo posted before, make the tube to go up (tie a hook in the top), so the drips of water go back into the motor. My furnace has been working fine for last 2 years! I have consulted the maker of the motor, this is ok.
Quin


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## rcisguy (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks Quin. It wasn't clear if that actually fixed the problem or not, but it's great to get confirmation that it did! I'm going to give this a try and keep my fingers crossed....

Are you still going with the vinyl tubing? Has it held up? Funny, your furnace looks exactly like mine, as well as the replacement combustion blower. Mine is a Fasco A172.

Thanks again.


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## Quin (Dec 24, 2009)

My vinyl tubing is good, wind from the motor has cooled the temperature down.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Quin 
Your solution was elegant.
I've seen a client do the same with a t fitting placed in the low dip of the tubing. The t fitting was attached to a hose that draped down into a large glass jar. The water in the jar sealed of the drain opening of the drain tube so the pressure switch could function. The glass jar in the furnace evaporated the liquid enough that he never needed to empty it. The only drawback was that he'd have to pour an inch of water into the jar at the begining of each heating season or the furnace wouldn't work.


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## awan (Jan 4, 2013)

Quin / rcisguyrcisguy, please confirm after the new routing of vinyl tube if you still need to drain the water out of preesure switch tube once in a while? my concern is if water flowing back to motor, it could cause damage to motor.
Your response will be highly appreciated.

Thanks,


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