# My deck was ruined by a company that was supposed to be fixing it.



## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

Several years ago, we had a textured paint-like product called Olympic Rescue It applied to our deck. Our deck is 6 years old and is cedar. The deck was in fine condition, but this Rescue-It stuff seemed like it would be a great long term way to protect our investment and make it look nice. Long story short, the Olympic stuff is junk and kept peeling off in many places after about a year. We'd have it reapplied and same thing would happen. We were sick of paying to have it reapplied every year or so and finally sought out a more permanent solution. We had a professional company come out and agree to strip all this Olympic product off down to bare wood then restain it with an oil based stain so we didn't have to deal with the peeling paint constantly. Bid was $6000. It was a big project, as our deck is big. The company we hired is a franchisee of a company with about 20 franchises in the midwest. (Later on, I found out that the franchise owner just purchased the franchise this year).

Anyway, I was letting them go about their business and hadn't really paid attention until the other night when I got home and they said they put their final coat of stain on, and all they had to do was come back and put on the rail spindles. Upon inspection, >90% of the deck looks ruined (see pics). From what I see online, they caused extensive damage with their pressure washer, leaving these extensive deep grooves/cuts throughout the wood, then they just applied stain over it. It looks horrendous. They didn't use any chemical stripping chemical or anything--they tried to blast this paint like stuff off with only a pressure washer apparently. 

Anybody have any thoughts on what should be done? From what I see online, the only real solution will be to replace the damaged wood. I told the owner of the franchise my concerns, and he said that he did notice "some of the wood grain coming through the stain". I told him that it's not just visible wood grain--there are quarter inch cuts through every board! He seemed flustered and told me that the wood was probably rotten which caused it to cut so extensively with pressure washing. I told him it has been power washed without incident several times, and as recently as 14 months ago without incident. I told him that the affected boards will need to be replaced (basically everything). He wants to meet with me next week to discuss "options" as to what can be done.

What "options" do you think he will propose? I think anything less than full wood replacement is a ripoff for me, as the wood looked great prior to his company getting a hold of it. I don't want to attempt to sand 1/4" cuts out of the whole deck or flip the boards over or anything.

I'd love to hear opinions on what my next course of action should be. Should I contact deck building companies and get estimates? Should I go above the franchisee's head and contact the head corporate office? 
Should I get a lawyer involved?

Ugh. Thanks in advance for any advice.

My deck:










The most recent image of my deck before this company's work (screenshot from a video dated 9/29/18):










Deck now (any variations in color are just lighting differences):









































































Youtube video talking about pressure washer damage to a deck that looks just like mine:

(



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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

There is no way, that I would call that ready for anything but the garbage heap. 

Yes an inexperienced operator of a pressure washer, did much damage to it. 


And you are stuck with needing a " restore" product, until the decking is replaced.

I suggest a Composite, a lot less maintenance, you can wash it yourself with a garden hose and a broom. 

Won't rot, peel, warp, or age by the sun. 

A request for an insurance adjuster, then a call to the Franchise head (not the local guy), then a lawyer, until satisfied.


Good Luck.


ED


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

A pressure washer should never be the sole means for removing paint, stain and I'd expect those restore type coatings to be even harder to remove. Add the fact that cedar is a soft wood makes the damage easier to happen. Wish you luck with the contractor!


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

In all probability all the head office will tell you is local franchises are independently owned and therefore there is not much they can do.

I agree with Ed, replacement is the only "restore" method that will get you back the quality look of the original deck.

You could attempt legal action against the contractor but that would be a long process with the cost likely exceeding your losses. You could sue providing you find a lawyer willing to take your case on a contingency basis. But again there is no guarantee of the outcome.

I suggest you try to cut your loses with the contractor. Considering the damage he caused see if he will forfeit his fee or at the very least accept a percentage..., say 25%. Just the treat of legal action may encourage him to be reasonable.

Perhaps you can have some solace from posting bad (but accurate) reviews about his company. The pictures should confirm their shoddy work.

Here are some suggestions before hiring a contractor.

Get at least three estimates for the job.

Make sure any contractor you are considering is licensed to work in your area, bonded, and insured. They should not hesitate to provide proof of this.

Be sure the contractor is skilled in the task for which he is being hired. Jack of all trades but master of none could be detrimental and costly.

Any estimates provided should cover costs, brands of items being installed, approximate start and finish dates, and the complete set of drawings being used with written specifications. It should also cover the payment schedule. Never pay upfront for a project and never put down more than 50% deposit. Be sure to have a signed detailed contract in place before any work begins. Be sure to find out if any of the work will be subcontracted. If subcontractors are involved, the contract should detail who is paying them.

Check references thoroughly. Also try to find reviews from multiple sites like the Better Business Bureau, Home Adviser, Yelp and Angie’s List.

Above all else trust your instinct. If there is anything about a contractor that puts you off for any reason, don't hire them.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Most of it might be salvaged and turn over.


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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

Ideally a new deck for free would be best, but suing costs money as well. I'd try for the fix and repair approach for free. Have them sand it all down to smooth. Have to remove the screws when sanding.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

MUPPPP said:


> I'd love to hear opinions on what my next course of action should be. Should I contact deck building companies and get estimates?



Yes, I think that should be your next course of action. As mentioned, minimum 3 quotes, because this might end up in court.


Might be able to turn the boards over, but looking at your deck, seems a lot of the undersides would be visible. If sanding, one would need to first remove all the screws, and then you would be removing so much material that you might be better off putting them through a thickness planer. 


Document all your correspondence with the Deck Finishers. If they phone you, follow up by sending him back an E-mail with minutes of the discussion.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

I wouldn't spend another dime trying to salvage the "real wood" decking boards that are there now. Those deck restoration coatings are only as good as the materials they are being placed upon and are a band aid, not a long term solution.

As others have stated, get a quote to replace the decking with composite decking materials.

As to where you are today... the pressure washer should have notified his supervisor early on so he could discuss the problems with you before creating such a huge problem. Again, no way a coating is going to repair the damage.

Lessons learned: Always get references, always look at their most recently completed projects, and always be on site at the beginning of the project to see if the contractor is performing up to your standards.

Have you paid the "Professional Company" for their work? If not, don't. Perhaps you can come to a mutual agreement to pay him for his costs only.

Good luck on the project.


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

The refinishers are going to have to do what they were supposed to do in the first place...screw down all the screws 1/8 - 1/4" below the surface and then use a big floor sander to take the decking down to bare wood before staining. This pressure washer damage was due to an ill conceived and poorly exscuted short cut.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

There are no "options". Show him that "before" video and tell him to call his insurance company to buy you a new deck.

Document everything. Document, document, document.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

mathmonger said:


> There are no "options". Show him that "before" video and tell him to call his insurance company to buy you a new deck.
> 
> Document everything. Document, document, document.


I like this idea.

Get a pocket recorder, and record every conversation with him, in case there is legal action.


ED


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## Tymbo (Jan 18, 2018)

I wonder if home owners insurance would get involved? Maybe they would pay for a new deck and go after the contractor instead of you.:001_unsure:


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

MUPPPP said:


> Several years ago, we had a textured paint-like product called Olympic Rescue It applied to our deck. Our deck is 6 years old and is cedar. The deck was in fine condition


Coating aside, I've never seen washed out grain like that on any six year old cedar decking (even in the Pac NW) and I haven't known anyone (including myself) to screw down a deck with robertson screws in at least the last 15+ years. 

Just an observation.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Just my own personal opinion from having to deal with this way to many times.
I would have taken one look at what you had done to the deck and said, sorry I can not help you, unless you want me to replace all the boards.
I've never once seen those deck coatings work, and they should be band from even selling them!
I feel bad for the person stuck dealing with the end result, not the homeowner that made the very bad choice of having done it in the first place.
There just is no great way to get that stuff off once it's dry.
Sand all you want, it's still going to be stuck in the low spots and on the sides of the boards and will show if the deck is stained.
A chemical stripper would most likely impact how the stain soaks into the wood. 
Useless contacting your homeowners insurance as suggested there not going to do anything.


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Tear it all out and use IPE - I still don't understand why anybody uses anything but


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Texasdiyer said:


> Tear it all out and use IPE - I still don't understand why anybody uses anything but


Price for one and it's not just the cost of the material itself (which is top shelf) IPE is a bit difficult to work with, in not only labor hours but wear and tare on tools (bits, blades and the like).

IPE weathers beautifully to a silver/grey finish but if you're not into grey then IPE is probably not a good option.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> IPE weathers beautifully to a silver/grey finish but if you're not into grey then IPE is probably not a good option.



Going to need to stain it annually if you want it to look like the pictures on the internet. OP already stated they are not into high maintenance.


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

There are several pressure washing franchises. They are decks, surface cleaners, and the scam I am familiar with, commercial kitchen exhaust system cleaning. The sales pitch is you buy the franchise, they sell you crap equipment, crap chems, teach you very little and tell you that you hire minimum pay folks to do the work. They tell you how you do not have to do anything except take your wheelbarrow of money to the bank every couple of days. Less of course, the small fee for the franchise. Good luck with getting any results that don't cost you lots of money.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

kwikfishron said:


> Coating aside, I've never seen washed out grain like that on any six year old cedar decking (even in the Pac NW) *and I haven't known anyone (including myself) to screw down a deck with robertson screws in at least the last 15+ years. *
> 
> Just an observation.



Still pretty common around here for outdoor wood builds.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> Still pretty common around here for outdoor wood builds.



Is there another type of screw other than Robertson?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

HenryMac said:


> . Those deck restoration coatings are only as good as the materials they are being placed upon and are a band aid, not a long term solution.





I disagree with the first part of that paragraph. It doesn't matter how good or bad the decking is - all deck coatings exposed to the elements will fail. That type of coating when it fails creates all kinds of issues trying to make it look right again. I agree it might be an ok band aid for a deck on the end of it's useful life ..... but I'd still recommend a solid deck stain instead.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

de-nagorg said:


> I like this idea.
> 
> Get a pocket recorder, and record every conversation with him, in case there is legal action.
> 
> ...


A good idea. 

However, check you local laws in regards to recording conversations. While some municipalities require only one party be aware a recording is taking place, some others require both parties to know.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

HenryMac said:


> Those deck restoration coatings are only as good as the materials they are being placed upon and are a band aid, not a long term solution.





mark sr said:


> I disagree with the first part of that paragraph. It doesn't matter how good or bad the decking is - all deck coatings exposed to the elements will fail. That type of coating when it fails creates all kinds of issues trying to make it look right again. I agree it might be an ok band aid for a deck on the end of it's useful life ..... but I'd still recommend a solid deck stain instead.


Deck stains fail too. That's why they have to be applied year after year after year.

The best coating is no coating, go composite.... no coatings needed.


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

Thanks to everyone here for the advice. What a headache this is. 

I sent this email to the owner. Decided to go the email route to avoid having to tape a conversation and to avoid any possibility of misconstruing intent or desires.

"I appreciate you wanting to meet to discuss options. I have been extremely busy lately and do not have time to meet and discuss options and we need this to come to a resolution relatively soon. Because of the extensive deep gouging from improper pressure washing (either improper nozzle, washing too close, and/or too high of pressure) the deck surfaces are ruined. From the professionals I have discussed this with and all of the research I have done, the only solution is to replace the deck.

As our home is our biggest investment and this investment has been devalued, we must avoid half measures or experiments in fixing the deck such as sanding or flipping boards. Such measures are just placing a band-aid on a gaping wound, and do not restore the lost value of my home.

I am in the process of getting bids for deck replacement and will get the estimates to you as soon as possible to submit to your insurance company. I will be in touch with you as soon as possible."


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

I hate to be pessimistic, but...I predict that you will largely get "radio silence" from the owner of this deck-restoration company. My thinking is that you are going to have to evaluate total costs to yourself to repair the deck, verses the probability of getting a satisfactory resolution from this company owner, verses the probability of getting a court judgement, and THEN actually collecting on a judgement (a different matter entirely!)....plus the value of your time and your own life satisfaction in pursuing this thing.

You definitely should get multiple repair estimates and take copious photographs of the decking damage. That costs you nothing, and it documents matters.

Assuming he is un-insured, I predict that the owner of this decking company is not going to be willing to actually resolve this issue to your satisfaction. I expect that you are going to have to resolve/repair this yourself.

If your state allows it, it should not be too expensive to at least pursue the maximal allowed under small claims court. You may as well try. I will tell you -- from experience -- that just *winning* a judgement and actually getting the defendant to pay up are two very different things.

I would not advise consulting a lawyer, however, as your out-of-pocket legal costs are very likely to exceed simply repairing the deck.

Best of luck to you.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I think you are blaming the contractor for your decisions. 

You are the one that decided to put a crap product deck restorer on your deck instead of a stain. Why would you do that when your deck was only a couple of years old ? Then after having problems and having to reapply it for several years, you ask a contractor to remove it. 

I do agree with the prior poster that said he would have no bid the power washing and would have only bid a decking replacement.

You are telling the contractor all you want is a complete deck replacement. No shared costs. No sanding, no flipping boards, etc. (if he offered to flip the boards over and stain them, I’d suggest you take it) 

You aren’t even attempting to be reasonable. Where is your contribution/cost sharing for the 6 years of use you did get out of the deck ?

To bad you didn’t bring this up a few months ago. There was a class action against Olympic/PPG Industries. The cut off date for claim forms was Aug 24, 2018. However, it might be worth contacting the administrator anyway.
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/closed-settlements/820769-olympic-rescue-class-action-settlement/


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

He's the professional. He should have told me that they cannot power wash it off and if they did it would result in these extensive gouges to the entire deck. I would have then chosen a different option. Or at least, once he started doing it, show me what it was doing and ask if I wanted to continue or consider a different option. 

My contribution/cost sharing for the 6 years of use I got out of the deck will be considered in the insurance settlement in terms of depreciation.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> My contribution/cost sharing for the 6 years of use I got out of the deck will be considered in the insurance settlement in terms of depreciation.


That statement presumes that the contractor has the right coverage. Where I am, the coverage is called professional liability coverage (aka errors and omissions coverage). Good idea to have it, but the state or local officials are not mandating it. 

So it is not enough to ask “are you insured”. You need to ask about specific coverages that the contractor carries, to cover specific concerns with the project you are having them bid.

Bottom line, there may be no insurance settlement for your project. You may be arguing directly with the contractor for “money out of his pocket”. 

Laws and insurance coverages may be different where you are.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I think that it was mentioned earlier.

Your home owners Insurance should have all the coverage needed to repair this properly, and they take the contractor to court.

Call your Agent, and inquire , Agent will know what is covered, what the procedure is to get it repaired.

You pay the insurance, get some use from it. 


ED


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## RRH (Nov 24, 2016)

Oso954 said:


> I think you are blaming the contractor for your decisions.
> 
> You are the one that decided to put a crap product deck restorer on your deck instead of a stain. Why would you do that when your deck was only a couple of years old ? Then after having problems and having to reapply it for several years, you ask a contractor to remove it.
> 
> ...


A licensed contractor is the one that is supposed to be held to a higher standard. Not the homeowner.
If you quote a job to remove any coating you are resposiable to do so. Only way the contractor is not liable is if part of the contract states they may cause damage.
Homeowners are not suppose to be experts in deck coatings. But the contractor that makes a quote is expected to be. 
Also there were a lot more people that made the mistake and bought this coating made by a well known company. But it is not common for a contractor to damage a deck like this.
I am a licensed contactor and would never expect a customer to pay for anything my crew damaged.

This will be a very easy win for the homeowner in court. See what a lawyer will charge or a easy win if you do yourself.

Still call the main office they still want to protect their reputation. But do allow the company to come over and have their own independent contractor look at it. You have noting to hide. Cedar is a very soft lumber and they should have know this.

I would still get prices and try to reach a settlement. Explain will cost them more if it goes to court since an easy win.

But you should be fair and reasonable. If this company had refused the job like they should of. You would be looking at a deck replacement anyway.
Unless you wanted a very nice house with a crappy deck.
There would have been no way to get all of that product off and make it look good.
If I went to court I would look for full cost to replace. To cover time and expenses. 
But if they are willing to settle. Then I would ask for 50% and think I caught a good deal.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

de-nagorg said:


> I think that it was mentioned earlier.
> 
> Your home owners Insurance should have all the coverage needed to repair this properly, and they take the contractor to court.
> 
> ...


Kind of interesting to me ED.....

I'm not reading thru my insurance contract... but I've never heard of coverage for contractor non-bad-ill performance....

Are there some arguments under some clauses that I'm not aware of that a normal HO policy would be insured for this type of a faulty repair.???


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

The last one that I read thoroughly had provisions for faulty remodelers in it.

And I do know a person that slipped on ice while visiting their elderly mother, and Sued their mom's insurance for a sprained wrist from the fall. 

I thought that was kind of heartless suing their own mother, but people are weird.


ED


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> Sued their mom's insurance for a sprained wrist from the fall.


 Sometimes you have to sue to get medial coverage. My wife was gassing up her car [back when gas cap was behind the license plate] She got hit by a women with no insurance. She had to sue her own insurance to get them to pay the ambulance and ER bill.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

de-nagorg said:


> The last one that I read thoroughly had provisions for faulty remodelers in it.
> 
> And I do know a person that slipped on ice while visiting their elderly mother, and Sued their mom's insurance for a sprained wrist from the fall.
> 
> ...





mark sr said:


> Sometimes you have to sue to get medial coverage. My wife was gassing up her car [back when gas cap was behind the license plate] She got hit by a women with no insurance. She had to sue her own insurance to get them to pay the ambulance and ER bill.


Actually, I understand those two instances. Liability and/or liability uninsured third party... pretty common coverage.

(Seems heartless sueing your own mom... but it is really just a technicality to invoke her insurance to pay.... done very commonly)


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

lenaitch said:


> Still pretty common around here for outdoor wood builds.





123pugsy said:


> Is there another type of screw other than Robertson?


Yes, these.....I guess you all up North didn't get the memo. :smile:


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

kwikfishron said:


> Yes, these.....I guess you all up North didn't get the memo. :smile:



Don't need the memo....nothing beats the Robbies...
We don't just have bacon you know, ha......


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

kwikfishron said:


> Yes, these.....I guess you all up North didn't get the memo. :smile:



They are around, but Robertson still probably the most common.


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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

Curious how all this pans out. I wouldn't have sent that email because it shows a lack of willing to work things out. Small claims is usually about 5K per state and that would have easily covered sanding and staining the deck which the owner of deck restoration company may have very well offered.

Seems strange to hire a company to take off a deck application which didn't work, created 1/4" damage to spots on the top of deck boards, then ask him to build you an entire new deck. Will never fly with insurance company or in a court of law.

But would be great to get updates either way.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mark2020 said:


> Curious how all this pans out. I wouldn't have sent that email because it shows a lack of willing to work things out. Small claims is usually about 5K per state and that would have easily covered sanding and staining the deck which the owner of deck restoration company may have very well offered.
> 
> Seems strange to hire a company to take off a deck application which didn't work, created 1/4" damage to spots on the top of deck boards, then ask him to build you an entire new deck. Will never fly with insurance company or in a court of law.
> 
> But would be great to get updates either way.


 That depends on the sales pitch. If the contractor did not have experience with this product he should have insisted the home owner by home at the time, or stop. 
If he had experience and this is the normal he should have warned the home owner and showed him a sample of what might happen. 


What the home owner asked for and what he expects to get may be different but it is never a good idea to negotiate with yourself before you even start.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Liability will be determined by one question "was the Deck Finishing company negligent?". Almost certainly they were. They sent out a crew that clearly did not know how to use a pressure washer on soft wood, or used the wrong process altogether to remove the old product. After that, you are only debating the dollar amount. Homeowner would be required to minimize his damages (i.e by just flipping over the boards), but that's where homeowner needs to do their homework. Get quotes from 3 deck builders for "repair". Let them figure out how to "repair".


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

It's true. It's easy for a bunch of strangers on the Internet to say, "Make him buy you a new deck."

There are a few things that might actually make it a good candidate for repair:
1. The boards are not that old, so you could actually get a good end result
2. The wood is soft, so maybe it would be easier to sand
3. It's not the cheapest wood to begin with. 
4. The wood is not pressure treated, so you're not looking at sanding a bunch of chemicals

Flipping the boards doesn't really work because you can see the bottom. Sanding would take a year and the cost of sandpaper would be more than the new wood. 

Maybe it could be planed down. Maybe instead of new boards, you could take them off, put them through a planer and then reinstall them. Maybe grind them down with a Diamabrush? I don't know if any of that would be more work or less. Insurance adjuster probably doesn't know either. I think the typical adjuster will take one look at that and say, "Yep. That's pretty much destroyed" and give you new boards. 

If it were my deck and I was paying out of pocket, I'd definitely be tempted to play around with it. 

If you get quotes from deck builders, they are probably going to quote you on building a deck. That is their thing. But there is a niche deck repair industry. They might have a special machine and be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat. But just because something might be theoretically possible doesn't mean that's what the insurance will pay for. You can look into that after you have your check. :devil3:


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

Owner response is below. A couple of questions. 

—Why would he continue to power wash without consulting us after seeing the damage it was doing? 

— I thought cedar is quite rot-resistant. Recall, the deck is 6 years old. 

—The wood clearly is not rotten. If you were to peel some of the previous product up, the wood underneath looked pristine. “



His response:



“Thank you for taking the time to work with us to try as we try to resolve the issues you are having with your deck. 

The biggest concern we have is what is the cause of your deck looking the way that it does? 

We believe that the current condition is due to wood rot caused by the previous application of an elastomeric coating/stain which does not allow the wood to properly dry after it gets wet. When the coating cracks it creates an opening that allows water to get underneath the coating and get into the wood. The deck then heats up under the sun and draws the moisture to the top of the board just underneath the coating with no way to escape. The moisture stays there and causes the wood to start to rot underneath the coating causing dead cell wood which is removed easily during the power washing process. This process has a greater affect on the soft parts of the wood between the harder grains of the wood. Unfortunately the problem was created when the coating that was on the deck prior to our work was applied. There are numerous class action lawsuits against elastomeric and solid stain products and their manufacturers because it promotes rot and mold growth under the elastomeric coating . This is why we promote our Oil based stains when a customer has a deck that is new or that has never been stained because it does not trap moisture.

Our proven deck cleaning process which we employed on your deck is designed to remove as much loose and failing solid stain coating and dead cell wood material as possible. This process is used on thousands of decks annually by Deck Medic and over fifty decks this season alone. We did not have any over pressure washing issues( as you indicated occurred on your deck) on any of those decks. Although we do not feel that the current condition of the wood on your deck was caused by our cleaning process; we want to do everything that we can to help you make your deck look as good as possible.

We are willing to offer the following solutions to remedy your decks current rough surface:

First option would be to thoroughly sand the deck to reduce the raised wood grain and rough areas and apply two coats of the SuperDeck stain. The sanding of the deck will not affect the deck floor's structural stability. This is our recommended solution.

A second option would be to apply a coating of SuperDeck Deck and Dock which is a thicker coating that is similar to what was on the deck originally; minimal sanding would be required with this option.

Although we will not be able to make it look like a brand new deck we do feel that we can make your deck look good given the circumstance. We are willing to do the additional work and provide the additional materials needed to complete the job for our existing quoted price.

We did check with our insurance carrier and our liability policy would not cover the replacement of the deck floor as you initially requested.

We look forward to meeting with to discuss.”


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Is the "_First Option_" the same price as you already agreed too?

If the answer is yes ask them for references to previously repaired decks of this type. Go look at them, maybe takes some photo's.

Option 2 isn't really an option. That will look horrible.

I wouldn't pay these folks any more money. If they ask for more money, mention "bait and switch" to the owner and give him a link to this thread.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Their explanation of wood rot is " Rich as 6 feet up a bulls a$$ " .

( That's an expression that I got from my Grandmother, 50+ years ago.)

There is no way at 6 years old this deck " rotted" as much as is shown in the photos. 

Plain and simple, excess pressure washer pressure, ripped the softer wood from the grain pattern. 

And no amount of "richness" is going to convince me otherwise. 

Their offer to sand and coat does sound reasonable, in this situation. 


Get it in writing, and make sure that they seat those screws deeper, as they are , any bare feet are going to get ripped open.


ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If I made this mistake myself I would go for the sanding and fill the damage with epoxy. It works well with wood and takes the stain good.
A small test would be warranted


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I have followed some (not all) of the posts and agree new deck boards are in order, the newer composite material. A sanding and coverup approach will never be satisfactory and will stare at you every time you go out there.

As I saw mentioned, get an estimate for the new deck boards installed and request a full refund for the poor work, then apply that to the new work. Get his refusal in writing and then proceed with small claims court. He has no defense for (as you questioned) continuing to destroy the entire deck once he (or his employee) saw the damage it was doing, that was pure incompetence.

As for demanding a full refund you could also request the court to add in compensation for this major inconvenience.

The end result of replacing all of the boards with new composite boards will be years of smiling every time you use that wonderful space.

IMO,
Bud


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## km7873 (Oct 11, 2018)

I would ask why he is recommending Deck and Dock (an elastomeric coating)when he is essentially saying that cause of your problem was an ELASTOMERIC coating. Makes zero sense.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Just visited my local bank where the porch in front of the entrance was built with composite decking, maybe 10 years ago. As I stepped up my thoughts were, it looked like it was installed yesterday and will probably look the same 20 years from now.

Bud


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> First option would be to thoroughly sand the deck to reduce the raised wood grain and rough areas and apply two coats of the SuperDeck stain. The sanding of the deck will not affect the deck floor's structural stability. This is our recommended solution.



That sounds like a reasonable solution assuming they are footing the bill for it.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

MUPPPP said:


> Although we do not feel that the current condition of the wood on your deck was caused by our cleaning process….


_His lawyer told him he must not admit to negligence._





MUPPPP said:


> …we want to do everything that we can to help you make your deck look as good as possible.


_He knows he was negligent and will have to do something._





MUPPPP said:


> Although we will not be able to make it look like a brand new…….


_A loaded statement._



He is offering to work with you to fix it, so I think you need to work with him. If you go with his first option, you may wish to let him try to fix _a small section only_ --- an area that is pretty badly damaged. Then you can review what it actually would look like. You also have a standard for comparison if they end up doing the whole deck.


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Bud9051 said:


> Just visited my local bank where the porch in front of the entrance was built with composite decking, maybe 10 years ago. As I stepped up my thoughts were, it looked like it was installed yesterday and will probably look the same 20 years from now.
> 
> Bud


.....


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

MUPPPP said:


> Owner response is below. A couple of questions.
> 
> —Why would he continue to power wash without consulting us after seeing the damage it was doing?
> 
> ...


Why were they using their "proven deck cleaning process"? I thought they were hired to strip it down to bare wood. Even if you forget about the damage, there is no way they can say they stripped it down to bare wood! Clearly incompetent. 

The part about the rotting wood under the elastomeric coating is probably tough to argue with. There are a lot of smart lawyers in class action suits trying to prove that it's true. Especially on a soft cedar deck for 6 years. He might have a point. But he should have known. He should have told you. He should have stopped. That's not enough to get him off the hook. 

He's openly admitting that sanding won't make it look like new. You just have to trust him that it will look okay. He's giving himself a lot of leeway. 
How can you possibly trust somebody who thought the first time was acceptable? He'll spend a couple hours sanding the rough spots and say, "Hey, you wanted me to sand it. I sanded it. I did the whole thing all over for you!! What do you want from me?!?!" Where do you go from there? 

Tell him that you accept option 1, provided he is able to get all the original coating off as originally agreed. He won't be able to. But it would be fun to torture him. Heh. No, don't do that. 

Or how about you tell him you don't think he's competent, but you'll give him one last chance before you pursue legal action. Let him come and "sand" a small test patch (the worst part), so you can see if this is going to be a workable solution. Make sure the test patch has some railings and difficult to sand areas. Take pictures. Document, document, document. 

If he took responsibility and had a workable plan to fix it, maybe. But this guy is just being slippery and has no real plan. 

So, now it gets ugly. I think I'd explore the options with my homeowner's policy, as somebody suggested. i don't have any experience with that, but if you can leave it to their lawyers to mop up that mess, it would save you a lot of grief. And you know the money is there. 

You could sue him or go through the licensing board. But it'll be a hassle and cost money and even if you win, you might not be able to collect anything. 

Might be worth it to sit down with a lawyer and talk over the options with him, even if you don't wind up in court.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Texasdiyer said:


> .....


Maybe I'm reading it wrong or interpreting the satire wrong, but composite are very popular and performing well. maybe it's your Texas heat.

Bud


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Bud9051 said:


> Maybe I'm reading it wrong or interpreting the satire wrong, but composites are very popular and performing well; maybe it's your Texas heat.
> 
> Bud


Composite decking is like a bo*b job, nice to look at but still fake... :glasses:

IPE is the latest & greatest decking material and really the only way to go IMO


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## Tymbo (Jan 18, 2018)

Have you paid them any money yet?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Texasdiyer said:


> Composite decking is like a bo*b job, nice to look at but still fake... :glasses:
> 
> IPE is the latest & greatest decking material and really the only way to go IMO


IPE, pronounced e-pay.

And boy will you pay. Yes it looks good, but I wonder how it looks after 20 years?

For my money Composite is great, I installed it 20+ years ago, and it still looks great, it holds up to -30 winters, 110 summers, and I won't use wood decking on my own place ever again.

Well worth the expense, don't need to "monkey" with any staining, finishing, just scrub it once a year to remove the bird doodoo. 

ED


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sorry Texasdiyer I did some reading and sounds like an exotic Brazilian wood that is already being over harvested. Didn't see any suppliers anywhere around me so count me out, even taking a look at it.

Bud


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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

MUPPPP said:


> Owner response is below. A couple of questions.
> 
> —Why would he continue to power wash without consulting us after seeing the damage it was doing?
> 
> ...


Best response you could have had given email you sent him. Take him up on it and move on. You are talking about 1/4" gouges which can be easily sanded off. That makes your boards from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4"... no biggie. He is not going to pay for a new deck on your 6 year old deck... stop looking for hand outs!


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## patriot (Mar 6, 2008)

Wow that is not good, plus all the paint is not gone...exactly the reason I never painted my deck...just stain.

Try to work something out with contractor. The lawyer/suing route can be very costly and time consuming...in most cases the attorneys come out just fine, crapshoot for you.


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## briski58 (Nov 13, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> Most of it might be salvaged and turn over.


 Good suggestion I turned my deck over and it was much older then the we are seeing in these pictures. the underside was in great shape I'm sorry that you used that type of product on your deck especialy cedar! and you have a whole lot of deck there! Good luck.


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## l_n_r_carrs (Jun 23, 2018)

As per other responses to your message. People need to know what type of wood they are dealing with as an owner and a professional. When redoing anything in wood make sure you are going to deal with a professional and ask questions about his/her experiences with the type of wood and their work. Yes, Cedar is very soft wood and high-pressure water will ruin it. If you want to go after the franchise try to find a lawyer with a free consultation.If you think you have a case put that Lawyer on hold and then approach the appropriate people. I think a good inspector would have told you what the better choices would be. Good luck. and yes Composite would be better.


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## PatentPending (Aug 7, 2018)

Mark2020 said:


> Best response you could have had given email you sent him. Take him up on it and move on. You are talking about 1/4" gouges which can be easily sanded off. That makes your boards from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4"... no biggie. He is not going to pay for a new deck on your 6 year old deck... stop looking for hand outs!


Handout? That's one hell of a characterization.

Basic legal principles* dictate that he's entitled at least to be "made whole." In this case that would mean something like being refunded and having a deck that's just as functional and, you know, not hideous, as it was before. Just flipping the boards is definitely not an option, because then this monstrosity would still be visible from below. Sanding? Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are codes that require those boards to be a certain thickness; alternatively, is there a good faith argument that 1 1/2" boards are "better" than 1 1/4" boards?

All this is to say that if the only way to make things right is to completely replace the boards then so be it. He shouldn't settle for anything less than being at least as well off as he was before this whole fiasco, both financially and deck-wise.

As for making that happen... I'll go ahead and echo the sentiment that it's best not to get lawyers involved at first (litigators are a generally unpleasant and expensive bunch). Depending on the jurisdiction he may be required to give the contractor the chance to remedy the situation before taking any other actions. Otherwise the contractor should be bonded and he can try to recover from that. Small claims court is also useful for this sort of thing (where I am at least there are no lawyers in small claims court).

I wouldn't be surprised if whoever ends up paying tries to argue something akin to "betterment"**, but that's bull****. Six years old or not, the deck was perfectly good, albeit with a questionable coating, before he hired this idiot and would _still_ be perfectly good but for said idiot's negligence.

Okay, as I proofread this I realize that there are a lot of variables that can complicate the situation and, handled incorrectly, could screw things up down the road (e.g. the possibility of needing to give an opportunity to repair). No need to file suit or anything, but a _brief_ consultation with an attorney is definitely in order.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the above quote sounds like the attitude of a contractor with experience paying out the nose to fix their mistakes; you know, for those damn "problem" customers who just _insist_ on getting what they paid for... but it's best not to assume such things.

*I am a lawyer but not that kind of lawyer, nobody here is my client, this is not legal advice, etc.

**This is an underhanded tactic that car insurers use to try to minimize what they pay out. For example, I was once hit and had to have my exhaust replaced. Dude's insurance company said they wouldn't pay the entire amount for the new exhaust because I would be "better off" compared to having my old exhaust which had some wear and tear. They dropped it when I insisted that this was unacceptable and that they should find and use a used part in the same condition that mine was before it was hit.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

You paid him 6K to ruin your deck...

questions...
Have you already paid him? How much, the full 6k?

How many days did this contractor have
his employee(s) work on your deck? 

How many employees?

Was the only cost to the contractor the daily salary of his employee(s)

Was there any other outlay to him, supplies, wood, etc?

My advise for what it’s worth, is to immediately demand a full refund.
There is no way that I would continue to let this yahoo try to fix the mess
that he made of your deck. 

I hope he agrees with your demands and you can get this resolved
with a full refund. If not then tell him you are prepared to take legal action.


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

Two Knots said:


> You paid him 6K to ruin your deck...
> 
> questions...
> Have you already paid him? How much, the full 6k?
> ...


I paid 25% upfront, about $1500. Only cost to him was time, employee salary, and any power washing equipment, stain, etc.

The owner and one or two employees were there most of the time. The owner and his wife the rest of the time. Total days worked were like 5 days. The owner was on site the entire time. 

One other thing that bothered me was that the guy stained the ruined deck one day after it rained. I mean, what the heck?!

My insurance agent thinks this will be covered under my homeowners insurance. Typically, poor workmanship things are not covered, like a bad paint job, or a badly constructed deck. But in this situation, where the existing deck was actually ruined, it looks like it should be covered. So it looks like I'm going to go that route. In my opinion, there's no reason to allow a person who has shown his incompetence to continue to work on my property.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

His insurance would not kick in until he has court papers or when he looses a court case.


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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

PatentPending said:


> Handout? That's one hell of a characterization.
> 
> Basic legal principles* dictate that he's entitled at least to be "made whole." In this case that would mean something like being refunded and having a deck that's just as functional and, you know, not hideous, as it was before. Just flipping the boards is definitely not an option, because then this monstrosity would still be visible from below. Sanding? Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are codes that require those boards to be a certain thickness; alternatively, is there a good faith argument that 1 1/2" boards are "better" than 1 1/4" boards?
> 
> ...


The guy offered solutions. An obvious solution was to sand the deck and then likely stain it. 1/4" of gouges is not the end of the world. It would take 1 day to sand it all down to fresh wood without gouges and 1 1/4" is just fine to span.

You do not send an email to a company that performed less then par, or even damaging work, and say give me a new deck. It sounds like a hand out on home owners part and the owner of deck company is not going to reply to this guy in any capacity. He was too upfront and demanding and as a result will either have to pay lawyers... or go to small claims for likely 5k. Just all around the wrong approach.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Mark2020...This contractor was on sight and continued to let his employees
power wash the cedar deck to death. Then he stained on top of the
destroyed cedar. Then the contractor ‘offered other solutions.’ to fix
this mess that he created. 

The time to offer other solutions is before he ruined the deck, not after.

Muppp, hired a ‘professional’ to do a professional job, and got
a jerk that ruined his deck. I wouldn’t let that guy anywhere
near my deck again. 

Time to look for another contractor (with references) to fix this mess.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

Mark2020 said:


> It would take 1 day to sand it all down to fresh wood without gouges...


Can you explain a little bit more about this process? How do you sand off a quarter inch of wood?


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## PatentPending (Aug 7, 2018)

Mark2020 said:


> The guy offered solutions. An obvious solution was to sand the deck and then likely stain it. 1/4" of gouges is not the end of the world. It would take 1 day to sand it all down to fresh wood without gouges and 1 1/4" is just fine to span.
> 
> You do not send an email to a company that performed less then par, or even damaging work, and say give me a new deck. It sounds like a hand out on home owners part and the owner of deck company is not going to reply to this guy in any capacity. He was too upfront and demanding and as a result will either have to pay lawyers... or go to small claims for likely 5k. Just all around the wrong approach.


If the only real remedy is a new deck, then yes, you absolutely do get to say "give me a new deck." Is that the only real remedy? Who knows, but the "solutions" offered by this so-called professional seem to leave Muppp worse off than he was to begin with. Legally, Muppp is entitled to be left at least as well off as he was beforehand.

Maybe a lawyer does need to get involved. It probably wouldn't be a complex (read: expensive) case and would settle quickly, if it even got that far. Muppp could still come out well ahead even with fees, and every time somebody fights a ****tty contractor and wins it's a service to us all. The facts here are so plainly one-sided that the contractor is _still_ in the wrong even if we assume arguendo that everything he said was true (in other words, even if the boards were rotted and such, there is no excuse for him continuing once this became apparent).


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I've followed most of this but may have missed if mentioned, the contractors insurance. All jobs should start with a certificate of insurance to protect the home owner from injury liability and performance liability. That certificate would provide a direct claim path to the contractors insurance. When requested those papers are provided directly from the insurance company and not from the contractor so you know for sure the policy is in effect.

Bud


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

Bud9051 said:


> I've followed most of this but may have missed if mentioned, the contractors insurance. All jobs should start with a certificate of insurance to protect the home owner from injury liability and performance liability. That certificate would provide a direct claim path to the contractors insurance. When requested those papers are provided directly from the insurance company and not from the contractor so you know for sure the policy is in effect.
> 
> Bud


He'd need an additional insured endorsement on the policy. Without that, the home owner doesn't have any rights to the contactor's policy. Nobody short of a professional property manager is going to know what that is and demand one. I have to get one every 5 years or so to do a job in a big building.


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

The damage is not covered under my homeowner's insurance, per the adjusters. Blah. 

Decisions, decisions. My options are at this point:

1) Let the company try to sand it and stain it, then pay him the remaining $4500 that is outstanding on the bid.

2) Make him give me his insurance info and file a claim with his insurance to replace the affected portions of the deck (assuming he has insurance).

3) Contact a lawyer and go from there.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

MUPPPP said:


> The damage is not covered under my homeowner's insurance, per the adjusters. Blah.
> 
> Decisions, decisions. My options are at this point:
> 
> ...


 Just talking to a lawyer maybe better than our advice.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Before lawyering up...Think about telling him to refund your 1500.00...
he did enough damage, why should you trust him again? This was not what
you contracted him to do. You contracted him to remove the paint finish
and re-stain your deck. He ruined your deck. So far your ahead 4,500.00
Don’t get yourself in the hole for 6,000.00 with this guy.

Did you put the deposit on your credit card? ( hope so)... If he doesn’t
agree to refund your deposit contact your credit card company (asap)
and tell them the situation. Hopefully, they can help by withholding
payment. 
Let him sue you...it would cost him more than it’s worth.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Contact a deck company you wouldn't mind working with and bring them in to do a repair or replacement estimate. Saw your picture and that is a rather large deck so if it comes to replacing it I suspect the cost will be far more than the $6,000, assuming you could get the $1,500 back. It isn't like the roof is missing and the house is being damaged by weather. Take your estimates from that professional source to the lawyer and see if s/he thinks it is worthwhile going after. Once the lawyer is involved he may well reach for his insurance coverage, if he has any.

Bud


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

The first thing that I would do is to contact this contractor and try 
to get a full refund.

Again, Don’t allow him to offer you more solutions on how he can fix the damage
that ‘he’ has created. :no: Be nice, but be firm. 

This should have been sanded, not power washed to death.
This was a guy that was on sight everyday and he let his employees
continue to power wash!?! There is now way that he can be trusted to 
fix this mess to your satisfaction. 

Show him this one photo of the “before and after deck,” and don’t let him 
razzle dazzel you! 

Exhibit A


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Your contractor still doesn't know what to do. Sorry but didn't read every word if I'm repeating. The deck can not be sanded unless the screws are sunk in further. Since gouges are not uniform, there is no way to know how much to sink. He's going to sand, sink the screws further, and sand again.:smile::smile: Many boards also may split. There is no way this is going to sand flat. You may end up with bouncy and wavy deck, even if the contractor does try to finish it. I admit I never tried sanding 1/4 inch off any board but I don't see it being possible.



Somebody did say to turn the boards over. I think that's the only way. Maybe the screw holes can be matched. If not, you'll have to fill, then solid deck stain and live with it. Even before this mess, that's what you had anyway. Get the money back and ask for 20% of the total decking material in addition. Lawyer retainer fee will be about the same as the labor and this guy is not going to show up and pay.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

There is a risk to turning over the boards.

Generally when laying deck boards, one lays them crown side up. This prevents the boards from eventually cupping. If the boards were originally laid crown side up and are now turned crown side down, there is a very real possibility they will cup as a result.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

That is a rock and a hard place.:smile: OP: I still do things without asking. Lessons never learned.:smile:


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I don’t know about cupping...Doesn't it pertain to hard woods?
Would that cedar cup after 6 years? 
Can’t you tell by looking at the end wood the way the rings go?

We sanded the finish off our deck once with a floor sander that we
rented. The next time we took it up, ran it through our planer and 
re-installed it, and then stained it. It came real nice.

Looking at the screws close up, wouldn’t they be able to counter sink
them more and sand them with a floor sander?


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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

I thought it was easy to sand a floor 1/4" with one of those push motor sanders. Screws have to come up but sanders can't sand that amount off to bring deck back to life?


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

Mark2020 said:


> I thought it was easy to sand a floor 1/4" with one of those push motor sanders. Screws have to come up but sanders can't sand that amount off to bring deck back to life?


A typical floor sanding takes off about 1/16th. So maybe you could take the railing off and take all the screws out and sand the whole thing down 4 times. It would look really funny where you couldn't quite get the sander. And you're giving up a lot of the thickness of the wood. 

It's not gold bars. Just wood. Cheaper and better to just replace it.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

quoting:better to just replace it. 


With Composite, then no maintenance, except washing annually. 

And permanently appealing beauty.


ED


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I would take him to small claims court which costs little. You will probably not ever get any money from him but a judgement in your favor will negate any claims he may have for the unpaid balance from your original contract.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

de-nagorg said:


> ...permanently appealing beauty.


Composite is great, but I have seen plenty of old ones that are wavy and breaking up around the screws and have a whitish, weathered texture in exposed areas and permanent staining that won't come out no matter what. It isn't perfect.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Reading through this thread is a great reminder to me NOT to do decks. I've always hated doing them. There is not a single staining/coating product on the market that lasts more than a year or two. I put it in writing that doing a deck will be a continual maintenance issue. I have installed composite on my own deck on my home and it has been 8 years and it still looks great even though it's in the weather 24/7.

I vote for composite. Based on how poorly the cedar fared in this situation after 6 years, there's no way I would settle for any type of wood product as compensation.


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

I talked to a lawyer. He advised me to first not allow this company to perform any further work on my deck and to obviously not pay him any more money. He said to obtain quotes from several companies on fixing/replacing the deck and have the business owner submit them to his insurance. And if he refuses, then we may be talking litigation.

Here's the letter I sent:

Mr. X,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

You stated that the top layer of wood on our deck was rotten and this is what came off when you power washed. This is patently false. As you may or may not know, cedar is very resistant to rotting. Especially cedar that is only 6 years old. If you were to take a scraper and peel up a small fleck of the previous flaking surface of the wood (much of which still exists after you were supposed to remove it), you can clearly see that the wood is not rotten. Also, as you may or may not know, cedar wood is a relatively soft wood that is easily damaged when power washed incorrectly. After exhaustive research and consulting multiple professionals, it is clear that your company did not perform the job appropriately. A stripping chemical should have been used along with scraping to remove the solid stain that was on the deck (see https://www.familyhandyman.com/decks/how-to-remove-flaking-deck-stain/view-all/); not extreme pressuring washing with extremely high pressure and/or extremely close to the wood. You stated that you have not had any other similar issues on the over fifty decks you have done this season. Have you done any jobs similar to this, in which you removed an existing solid coating with just power washing? 

Even giving the benefit of the doubt that you may have been inexperienced in tackling such a project given that this is your first year as owner of XX XX, why would you continue to power wash and ruin the ENTIRE SURFACE of the deck after seeing what you were doing to the wood?! Common sense would dictate that once you see that the job is not going according to plan (i.e., the power washing was ruining boards by cutting deep grooves), that you would stop what you are doing and contact the homeowner to alert him of the issue before continuing to ruin the entire deck. The other professionals we have talked to about your work were in shock as to what was done. The amount of chewed up sawdust wood underneath the deck from your power washing was amazing.

You proposed power sanding the entire deck as a potential solution. This will not work. It is not practical nor possible to remove 1/4" cuts to 95% of the surface of a 1000+ square foot deck. It is not possible to sand cuts this deep out evenly--the deck will be uneven and undulating in surface contour. You also proposed putting on a SuperDeck Deck and Dock coating to cover up the cuts. You have stated yourself that neither of these options will return the deck to the condition that it was previously. We trusted your company when your partner confidently stated that this was a problem you could tackle and make look good. But now that it looks absolutely awful and the integrity of the wood is ruined, we just want to be made whole and have our deck in at least as good of condition as it was before you started working. Our legal counsel advised us to not throw good money after bad. As I have stated, we have had several professionals who have been doing this for years and years come to assess the damage you have done, and all have stated that replacing the damaged wood is the only reasonable option. 

As advised by our legal counsel, we are obtaining quotes from various companies to repair the damage that you have done. We are formally requesting that you voluntarily create a liability claim with your insurance regarding the damage done and submit to them the quotes we will provide you. This will be the cheapest, quickest, and easiest way for you to solve this problem you have created. Should you refuse to do this, we will be forced to turn the issue over to our lawyer.

Respectfully,


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

I want to thank everyone in here for all of the advice you have given me during this process. Much of it has been invaluable. It speaks highly of your character as a whole that so many of you would lend a helping hand to a complete stranger who is new to this forum.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

FYI, the process you linked to on the Family Handyman site would not have worked either. Deck strippers work pretty well on oil stains. They are terrible on acrylic stains, but I've heard some guys claim the can make it work by adding butyl. That elastomeric stuff you have on there, however, would just laugh at you if you put a deck stripper on it. 

I would have sanded it in the first place - when it was just a coating and not a quarter inch of wood that had to be removed. Not a fun job, but possible.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've used deck strippers on waterborne stains but never latex or oil - they work well on waterborne. If I had to strip paint [or restore type coating] I'd use a paint and varnish remover along with pressure washing. I'd only resort to sanding if I had to.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

I'd be curious about how old the deck is.

Most wooden decks do have to get replaced after 10 to 15 years if they've been maintained properly.

I've seen weathered old wood that appears just fine until you actually test it with a knife blade or screwdriver to see how deep the softness penetrates.

No professional should have touched your deck without testing the wood first - they were just asking for this trouble.

Of course, the fellow is licensed and you have an explicit contract including terms for remediation, right?

Keep documenting unemotionally and follow the standard rules to let the contractor attempt a repair. Make sure they know they have one chance before you ask for help from the licensing board.

The licensing board in many municipalities reserve a fund to make clients whole if there has been a contractor problem that cannot be resolved. The contractor will have paid into that fund via his license fees.

If there is any belligerence (remember to be unemotional) you should get a lawyer's opinion (first consult is usually free).

This is a very frustrating situation, I'm sure. Both sides will have a lot of "should have, could have's." All of those are immaterial at this point and you should make sure the franchise owner understands you are trying to work with them to find a solution to achieve the results you understood his company could deliver. Avoid using the word "you and I" since they will always be viewed as a personal attack or a gateway to attack your opinions, etc.

This is just a thing - it got screwed up. There is a solution. We all hope the solution won't cost you more than time.

A lawyer would have a field day with this; written testing procedures to determine suitability for the product/task, training certification for the power washer operator or verification procedure of prior experience, PSI testing of the power washer, lumber manufacturer's recommendations for power washing, etc. etc.

At the least, you should get your $6000 back to help pay for the new deck.

Now, IMHO - 1) the contractor messed up by allowing a helper destroy your wood without any oversight. Any competent worker should have seen the first gouge and stopped and called his boss. 2) Never allow anyone to work on your home without "adult" supervision (meaning YOU). 3) You wood is rotted in many places and no coating will ever make it right.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Two Knots said:


> I don’t know about cupping...Doesn't it pertain to hard woods?
> Would that cedar cup after 6 years?
> Can’t you tell by looking at the end wood the way the rings go?


Sorry it has taken me awhile to get back. Work has been relentless.

I am not sure about the cupping properties of cedar.

Yes you can tell which way the rings go by looking at the ends of the boards. The boards have a natural tendency to want to curve with the ring. This is why when you lay the boards, ideally you want the curve of the rings on top. Once secured, the screws help prevent or greatly reduce cupping.


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## MUPPPP (Nov 25, 2018)

Just received their most recent response. I'm glad they are admitting that they should have contacted me before proceeding to ruin the entire deck. That may be helpful to me going forward. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay this person $4700 more for ruining my deck, and then purchase multiple thousands of dollars of more product (new wood or composite) and trust them to install it properly. 

"Mr. X,

Thank you for allowing us to stop by your house on Friday and look at the deck.


There are a couple things in your email that we agree with:


1. Your deck does not look good.

2. You are correct we should have communicated with you once we saw that the surface of the wood was starting to pit/groove and allowed you to decide how you wanted to move forward. 


There several items in your email we do not agree with:


First the video that you sent us the link has a couple major differences between your deck and that video. Your deck had multiple coats of solid stain products on it not just one. At least one of those coats was an elastomeric product(deck restore product) with a abrasive agent added to it. Anyone that tells you that they can remove 100% of that product with a chemical stripper and scrapping is mistaken. During our initial visit with Mrs. Patterson we never stated we could remove 100% of that product. We actually said the opposite. We told her that we would do our best to remove as much as possible but there was NO way we could remove all of it and that is why we recommended going back to a solid stain. If we thought we could remove 100% of the existing product we would have recommended an oil based semi transparent stain so you could see the beauty of the cedar wood not cover it up with a solid stain as was done prior to our work.


Second, cedar is rot resistant if maintained properly with a true oil based stain. If it is not cared for properly or if inferior products are used to protect it; cedar will rot just like any other wood and in some cases faster because it is a softer wood. We have pictures taken on the day we did the estimate showing that the deck had places that were starting to deteriorate prior to us starting to work on your deck. We believe you were aware of this or you would not have used one of those elastomeric products to begin with; most people use those products because they were told(by an expert at the paint store) that it will "restore" areas of their deck that have already started to deteriorate but in reality it just makes the problem worse by trapping the moisture in the wood causing the wood to deteriorate faster which is why your 6 year old cedar wood looks the way it does now. 



Third, your experts claim the pitting and grooving was caused by us over power washing; the pitting and grooving was caused by rot and the extent of the deterioration was brought to light by the power washing. You have to remove that dead cell wood(rotten wood) before you apply any stain or it will chip and peal very quickly; unfortunately your wood had deteriorated pretty badly. In most cases we can sand those grooves or pits out which is why we include a sanding/scraping step in our procedure. We still believe sanding is a viable option to improve the appearance of your deck. If the pitting and grooving was caused by over power washing it would be seen on every board even the ones that are the most protected; it is the worst where the deck gets the most moisture. If you look at your upper covered deck the 2 outside boards are damaged the most and the closer you get to the house where the wood is more protected from the moisture it is not pitted or grooved as badly. Your lower deck deteriorated the worst because it gets a lot of wind blown moisture and very little sun or air flow and doesn't dry out. When you applied the elastomeric material to the deck it allowed the moisture to get trapped under that product causing the wood to deteriorate quicker than normal.



We disagree with your assertion that condition of your deck currently was cause by our inexperience. While we have only owned this Deck Medic franchise for 1 year we do have 5+ years of building and maintaining decks. We have completed numerous deck restoration projects that are very similar to yours and followed the very same procedure used on your deck with little pitting/grooving. In reality the condition was caused by using faulty materials tp protect the deck prior to us starting our work. We should have stopped when we saw the extent of the deterioration and communicated that to you so that you could decided how you wanted us to move forward. We have discussed this matter with our insurance adjuster and they will represent us legally or help mediate a resolution but they will not cover any of the cost to fix the deck. We do believe we have some culpability in your deck's current condition and we are willing to offer the following remedy to you:


We will provide the labor to remove and dispose of the existing deck floor and stair treads and install a new deck floor and stair treads using whatever material you provide whether that is wood or composite. We would complete this work in December or January and once the deck has dried out we will come back and apply a single coat of solid stain to the new deck floor(if you choose a wood product) and reinstall the spindles. At that point we would expect payment for the balance due of $4695.00 from the original estimate you signed. 


Our belief is that if we have to get attorneys involved that they will be the only ones that will benefit in this situation; so we think the best way for us to resolve this matter completely would be to meet you and your wife at your house and discuss this in person so that we can resolve this in a way that agreeable to you and us. We are willing to meet you at time that convenient for your schedules whether that is in the evening or weekend. We are very sincere in our willingness to work out a solution that is satisfactory to both parties."


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Well.......

There are fact issues in question that we all can't be certain of, but they do sound sincere and well intentioned.

How many square feet are your decks.... what was the original contact price....

I'm trying to evaluate the value of their offer. (They basically have 4900 at stake and are offereing their labor to replace. But I'm also interested in what you have allready paid, as that plus 4900 is your cost of the labor to replace the decking. Of course, your cost of a new deck will be that figure plus materials for decking.

You must have a lot of decking.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I've said it before, and will say it again, there is no way that Cedar will rot as much as they are trying to sell you on, in the time frame you stated that this deck has been there, even if it had no treatment at all. 

Cedar greys and fades, then the grey wood, protects the underlying wood a lot. 

So their hypothesis that it was rotting underneath any restorative, is just " feldercarb", and they are trying to convince you that they are pure, true, perfect in their endeavors.

I would be asking for at least half of my deposit returned, and fire these people. 

Of course I can rebuild my own deck myself, So I probably would have never hired them in the first place. 

As I have suggested A composite will last much longer, and look great for probably more years than you have left to look at it. 

My Composite has lasted many years, and still looks great, and I'm fading too fast lately to expect to need to do any work on it, except a yearly scrubbing of bird poop.

You are correct, do not allow this person to do anymore work on this, get another , even if you have to hire from out of town.


ED 


ED


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

If you decide to go with composite be sure to specify exactly what material you are paying for. Trex for example had at least three grades at three different prices. As mentioned you could possibly turn the boards over or buy a cheap planer and remove plane and replace each board as you go.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

When you are the victim of a job gone bad you need to be made whole and at a minimum returned to where you expected to be, plus compensated for the delay and troubles. From what you have learned repairing what is there, even at no added cost above the original contract, does not compensate you in any way for their mistake and leaves you with a questionable repair job. This is the home you live in and a deck that you see and enjoy for much of that time, year after year after year. Compromising now and accepting anything less than a new deck would disappoint you in every one of those years.

Get a quote to replace all of the damage with the same cedar as you have, including the stain and labor. Then get a quote (may be same company) for replacing all of the boards with a synthetic product. The additional cost to go from cedar to synthetic would represent some or all of the compensation for the troubles they have caused. How they choose to settle their part of this issue is to be determined but having them do any repairs cannot be part of the process.

I did see they mentioned they are a "Deck Medic franchise" that might open up some pressure from the franchise organization to make them cough up the necessary money. Would be interesting to hear a response from them.

Bud


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

What a mess. Even on the posts and railings. I just noticed that. New boards are only half the problem.


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