# What to do with shingle nail ends when sistering rafters



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Sawsall with a metal cutting blade. Takes about 10 sec. per nail.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

or a peanut grinder. Smoother than the snips.


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

thx! never considered the sawzall...just picked up some new blades too.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Might be overkill but maybe you should seal the bottoms of the shingle where your cutting the nail points.Or pull the nails along the length of the truss then refasten.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Roofmaster417 said:


> Might be overkill but maybe you should seal the bottoms of the shingle where your cutting the nail points.Or pull the nails along the length of the truss then refasten.


Yeah but you gotta remember it's only a few nails and they are still penetrating the sheeting. In the whole scheme of things it's not gonna affect the integrity of the roof.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The fasteners are code required to enter 3/4" in wood or penetrate the sheathing. “*R905.2.5 Fasteners.* Fasteners for asphalt shingles shall be galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum or copper roofing nails, minimum 12 gage [0.105 inch (3 mm)] shank with a minimum 3/8-inch (10 mm) diameter head, ASTM F 1667, of a length to penetrate through the roofing materials and a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing. Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19 mm) thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing. Fasteners shall comply with ASTM F 1667.” From: http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_9_sec005_par007.htm


I wouldn't cut them flush for a few reasons other than code; grinding them will heat the nail to melt the asphalt shingle there- reducing it's holding ability in high winds, cutting will loosen/expand the wood surrounding it for less withdraw power also, but *mainly-*--- you need to step flash the dormer side walls that require framing directly on the sheathing after removing or at least inserting the step flashing before framing them. Requiring pulling shingles the width of framing plus side wall sheathing to the new metal flashing.... 4"- 6" (2x4 or 2x6) back from the doubler anyway, right? 

Gary


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Once again, his roof is not going to blow off just because he sheared a few nails off to sister a rafter.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

But he will have humps in his shingles where the nail works back out with nothing left to hold the nail in place. As Roofmaster417 said, pull the nails you need and renail after installing the other rafters. I would be interested to see how he gets a full length rafter in place, without altering it, there are going to be other roofing nails sticking through the bottom of the decking for him to slide the rafter not to mention dealing with the thickness of the 2X at the plumb cut or the birds mouth. It is not not going to be easy.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

It may or may not ever be an issue.I just thought it was something to think about.IMHPO I would do it on a customers home (Pull & Refasten)but might not on my own home.

But I am sure if my wife heard about my comment about it being O.K for my house I would have to delete this,burn my hard drive then deny it till my dying day.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Simple solution: Nail Dikes/cutters.

Looks like this: http://www.amazon.com/JT-Tough-1-Nail-Cutter/dp/B002HICAXS

I understand Gary's point, especially in high wind regions. So, it may be prudent to take reference measurements, and go roof-top to add some shingle nails and sealant (where needed).


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Roofmaster417 said:


> It may or may not ever be an issue.I just thought it was something to think about.IMHPO I would do it on a customers home (Pull & Refasten)but might not on my own home.
> 
> But I am sure if my wife heard about my comment about it being O.K for my house I would have to delete this,burn my hard drive then deny it till my dying day.



Bwhahahahahaha:thumbup:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Roofmaster417 said:


> It may or may not ever be an issue.I just thought it was something to think about.IMHPO I would do it on a customers home (Pull & Refasten)but might not on my own home.
> 
> But I am sure if my wife heard about my comment about it being O.K for my house I would have to delete this,burn my hard drive then deny it till my dying day.


We aren't going to call and tell your wife, we are just going to ask her does she know it.:laughing:


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Clip them off flush. The parts in the air aren't holding anything.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I would think the longer the fastener, the longer it stays in the sheathing in a high wind. Correct, overall, it isn't that big a deal, as I said earlier, the *main* reason.... Yet, the extra 1/8" is required by some shingle manufacturers for the full warranty: Tamko product, 2.4 B: http://onlineplanroom.docucopyllc.com/grabImage.asp?image_id=80019

CertainTeed products; http://www.certainteed.com/resources/landmarkinstall.pdf

And with a quick search: If live in Missouri, pp. 16, 2.5 B: http://oa.mo.gov/fmdc/dc/fmdc_dip/6%20Roof%20Design%20Manual/Roof%20Design%20Manual.pdf

Peer pressure: 1/8" required: NRCA, ARMA, pp. 24, #387: http://www.armamembers.org/Meeting/...aft 4 September 2009--ARMA Final Comments.pdf

jcrack corn, Jim (jiju1943) made a good point, just hold the doubler down the thickness of some added plywood strips between the nails in the way, you will be fastening the sisters to code....yet will still have full bearing, and not effect the nails. Simply add the same ply to the existing rafter bottom for the rake wall plate to support fully.

Gary


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

just hold the doubler down the thickness of some added plywood strips between the nails in the way, you will be fastening the sisters to code....yet will still have full bearing, and not effect the nails. Simply add the same ply to the existing rafter bottom for the rake wall plate to support fully.


That's just plain silly. Then every other rafter in plane would have to be furred if the ceiling is to be finished. Most answering here are not looking at the big picture. The answer has already been given. Clip the nails to get the sisters in. Those clipped nails will end up getting pulled when the dormer is framed. The dormer walls will be over the sistered rafters or near enough that the nails in question will have to be pulled to flash. Even if they weren't, only one nail per shingle would be affected. Carry on.


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## Hates my roof (Dec 3, 2011)

as stated already, clipping is probably easiest. If you have plywood decking, that will help the nail remain tight after the clip. If its OSB though, all bets are off due to its inferior nail holding properties. another option is to locate where the nails will contact the new sistered rafter and drill a small hole so as to allow the nail some clearance. its only 2 sisters that you are doing so it shouldnt be too many to drill.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Cutting the sister to the exact same length/configuration with the ridge/seat cuts and installing it diagonally with only 22-1/2” or less- 14-1/2” is very difficult (with or without nails in the way…). I would cut it exact, then, level cut the seat cut by 1-1/2” shorter. When swinging the bottom of rafter over to double- with the top where it belongs, every little bit helps. Install the rafter; lift it up on a 2x4 spacer (1-1/2”) on the plate, after cutting only the few nails in the way. As you said your location is not FL but another sunny/tropical area? You may want/need the nails protruding if in a Gulf Coast high wind area. Where are you located?


Gary


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

GBR in WA said:


> Cutting the sister to the exact same length/configuration with the ridge/seat cuts and installing it diagonally with only 22-1/2” or less- 14-1/2” is very difficult (with or without nails in the way…). I would cut it exact, then, level cut the seat cut by 1-1/2” shorter. When swinging the bottom of rafter over to double- with the top where it belongs, every little bit helps. Install the rafter; lift it up on a 2x4 spacer (1-1/2”) on the plate, after cutting only the few nails in the way. As you said your location is not FL but another sunny/tropical area? You may want/need the nails protruding if in a Gulf Coast high wind area. Where are you located?
> 
> 
> Gary


Dead on, looks like you have had to sister a rafter also.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

tinner666 said:


> Clip them off flush. The parts in the air aren't holding anything.


Exactly…I’d whip out the Hoof Clippers and be done with it. 

In this case a Sawzall is to aggressive imo.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Some of you are missing the boat here. Quote--"I need to sister a couple of rafters in (full length sisters) to support new dormers. Sisters were spec'd by engineer."

The dormer framing will sit ON the sistered rafters.

Now, to the OP; Once you determine the exact outside position of the framing, figure out the thickness of your outer layers, insulation, siding, etc. Hold a line there too. Don't snap a line there! This should give you the range of area where all the nails now need to be removed, and 6" more to the outside of that line. 
At the line marking the dormer framing, pop a line 1/2" from the framing line. This is where the shingles need to be cut off. Remove all shingles between these lines you marked on both sides of the dormer location. Now, you can put your framing directly to the roof deck, AND have some play to slide in your step flashing.
Call me if you need any further help/clarification.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Sigh..... read the last part of post #7...... now we are running in circles, "Great minds think alike" though! The other problem is getting the rafter in place without stopping because of protruding nails (virtually no wiggle-room- as a carpenter would know)---- without cutting them *IF* in a high wind area. Which I think "jcrck corn" is in from reading some of his earlier posts last year. Are you listening, jcc?

Gary


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

True enough GBR!


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks, this is what I did. I like to work alone and they are 26 ft FG 2x8's....approx 60 pounds with a CG 13 feet away from me at all times, lol. but just taking my time and using rigging pulley and its all going well.

I actually have about a 4" HAP, and deep, well built soffits so I am able to get away with cutting the seat about 1/2" shorter than exact...i can slide the 2x8 into the soffit, then climb the ladder and pull it up and twist into place.

I am getting the ridges perfect. and have that 1/2 gap at the seat. I will shim that up and hurricane tie it...but I will also be building a double 2x4 triangle box that will drop down from the bottom edge of the rafters about 1ft up from the seat, down to a steel beam (then back to the end of the rafters on the seat, to complete the triangle for added rigidity, prevent movement). So the top plate isnt going to carry much load anyway...it will be picked up by the kneewall and the steel beam (all engineered).

its to support new dormers. I ended up cutting the nail shank on about 20 nails...not worried at all (and yes, hurricane area)...most of where I cut will be stripped when the exterior dormer walls go up anway...and i'm 50/50 odds for a new roof on that side if the shingle match isnt good enough.

I have 5 more to go, so I might try your way (just saw your post) to make it even easier.

ohh, and with the steep pitch I will be able to install hurricane ties when finished.

at the top i already have collar ties (that happen to be on the sides opposite sides i'm sistering, yah! one thing i dont have to move!), and plan to also run the new ceiling joists full lenth rafter to rafter on the other side of the house (dead space) so they will function as ties about mid span, along with the new/old floor joists (2x6, with sistered 2x12) tieing them at the bottom. I think a hurricane will take the rest of the house before it takes this part! lol



GBR in WA said:


> Cutting the sister to the exact same length/configuration with the ridge/seat cuts and installing it diagonally with only 22-1/2” or less- 14-1/2” is very difficult (with or without nails in the way…). I would cut it exact, then, level cut the seat cut by 1-1/2” shorter. When swinging the bottom of rafter over to double- with the top where it belongs, every little bit helps. Install the rafter; lift it up on a 2x4 spacer (1-1/2”) on the plate, after cutting only the few nails in the way. As you said your location is not FL but another sunny/tropical area? You may want/need the nails protruding if in a Gulf Coast high wind area. Where are you located?
> 
> 
> Gary


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

yep, you got it! i may have a single nail here or there that i cut outside of where the new rafters are but no biggie. but yes, dormer walls will sit over where I'm cutting most of the nails.

BTW to all....sawzall with long metal cutting blade is by far the way to go...plenty of room to get flex to make a flush cut, no damage to decking. takes probably less than 10 seconds per cut, no effort at all.




tinner666 said:


> Some of you are missing the boat here. Quote--"I need to sister a couple of rafters in (full length sisters) to support new dormers. Sisters were spec'd by engineer."
> 
> The dormer framing will sit ON the sistered rafters.
> 
> ...


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

btw...for those interested....the engineer spec'd 2 w8x21 beams (24ft span).

One carries half the floor load, about 20x24 tributary. the other one will carry 1/4 the floor load and the dormers. (which aren't huge, about 4'8 wide between the new rafters, and 8 foot walls with 2'4" additional ceiling height with the vaulted dormer rafters (on same 12/12 pitch). 

the w8x21's seem up to the task, i believe there is quite a safety factor there.


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