# 12-2 or 12-3 to ceiling fan?



## vettegc (May 28, 2014)

I'm doing the wiring rough-in for a new construction. My dad said he thought the new fans just needed 12-2? Is this correct. Should I wire with 12-3 for any reason?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Are you talking about a switch loop......for the fan and light...of a ceiling fan?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

12/2 if you are using a remote, 12/3 if you want to switch the light an fan separately.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Unless the circuit is 20 amps there is no need for #12. Lighting circuits were normally fine on a 15 amp breaker.

Xx-3 cable from the switch to the fan gives you more options for switching.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Unless you plan on putting in one that has a built in heater. 14/3 will do just fine.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Remote or not I would use the xx/3 cable. It will allow future use of a non remote version.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Another vote for 14/3. You can then put in a dual gang switch box one for the light, one for the fan.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

95PGTTech said:


> Another vote for 14/3. You can then put in a dual gang switch box one for the light, one for the fan.


Do not need a 4x4 box. Just a Single box with a single switch, along with a remote unit attached to the fan.

We use remote controls for our fans in our bedrooms. Makes it easier to control the light & fan.


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

Just run 12-3 from the switch location to the ceiling. You never know how someone will want to set it up later on. Nicer new fans with wireless remotes do not require dual switch wiring, but other fans still do.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

xx-4 (need neutral) thanks to Cali


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Do not need a 4x4 box. Just a Single box with a single switch, along with a remote unit attached to the fan.
> 
> We use remote controls for our fans in our bedrooms. Makes it easier to control the light & fan.


Thats great that you like remotes, I personally hate them, they get lost and never are really responsive like a wall switch, I vote for wall speed control and dimmer for the light if desired.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> xx-4 (need neutral) thanks to Cali


XX/3 will give you two hots, a neutral and obviously a ground. XX/4 is of no benefit here.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

If the circuit is on a 20A breaker then stick with 12.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> XX/3 will give you two hots, a neutral and obviously a ground. XX/4 is of no benefit here.


Speedy...... I'm full of cold pills and going blank....... but for a switch loop controlling fan and light..... how ya going to get a neutral to the switch with xx-3.........


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

How about no switch and just wire it hot. I think that is now illegal. I just wired my house and I wired the light for the fan on one wall with a single switch. Then, I wired in a switch on a different wall which controls the fan motor. After 36 years you would think I would know what switch does what. I came home the other night and replaced the bulb in my garage ceiling, yeah, I was flicking the wrong switch.:furious:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Speedy...... I'm full of cold pills and going blank....... but for a switch loop controlling fan and light..... how ya going to get a neutral to the switch with xx-3.........



I don't see where a switch loop is being talked about other than your earlier question?

As an aside I don't think an inspector would have too much of a problem giving exception to the neutral requirement in a home your building for yourself .. just my opinion. 

IMO this is a ridiculous requirement for dwellings other than new for sale, plot homes.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Stubbie said:


> *I don't see where a switch loop is being talked about other than your earlier question?*
> 
> As an aside I don't think an inspector would have too much of a problem giving exception to the neutral requirement in a home your building for yourself .. just my opinion.
> 
> IMO this is a ridiculous requirement for dwellings other than new for sale, plot homes.


Well I don't see where anyone has said the feed is at the switch..... am I blind.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Well I don't see where anyone has said the feed is at the switch..... am I blind.


It isn't stated in the OP but inferred kind of. If power is supplied at the fixture and two separate switches are to be hooked up take power down to the switches on the white wire and bring it back up off the switches black & red. The neutral wire is not needed at the switches. (not really anyway)


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Well I don't see where anyone has said the feed is at the switch..... am I blind.


 Nope your not blind ...


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

PoleCat said:


> It isn't stated in the OP but inferred kind of. If power is supplied at the fixture and two separate switches are to be hooked up take power down to the switches on the white wire and bring it back up off the switches black & red. The neutral wire is not needed at the switches. (not really anyway)


:thumbsup::yes:.......


Best


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Am I missing something I still don't see what type of fan it is.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

electures said:


> Am I missing something I still don't see what type of fan it is.


Probably not......we all assumed alot..... it may be a 240 attic fan.... or some 3 phase animal...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Speedy...... I'm full of cold pills and going blank....... but for a switch loop controlling fan and light..... how ya going to get a neutral to the switch with xx-3.........


I bring power to switch box first then to the fan.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

PoleCat said:


> It isn't stated in the OP but inferred kind of. If power is supplied at the fixture and two separate switches are to be hooked up take power down to the switches on the white wire and bring it back up off the switches black & red. The neutral wire is not needed at the switches. (not really anyway)


A neutral is still required in the switch box.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

electures said:


> Am I missing something I still don't see what type of fan it is.


There you go again making things complicated .. :wink:

I actually read ceiling fan into the thread but your right there is just that one little pesky word .... 'fans'. I'm bettin ceiling fan ... with no light. That will get us out of the neutral predicament ... :jester:


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

vettegc said:


> I'm doing the wiring rough-in for a new construction (HOUSE?). My dad said he thought the new (CEILING?) fans just needed 12-2(THIS MANY)? Is this correct. (OR) Should I wire with 12-3(THIS MANY)for any reason?


Words in ( ) are assumptions only based on OP.


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## vettegc (May 28, 2014)

electures said:


> Am I missing something I still don't see what type of fan it is.


Sorry guys. The title of the topic does say ceiling fan though.:thumbsup:


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

vettegc said:


> Sorry guys. The title of the topic does say ceiling fan though.:thumbsup:


Doh!!


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

vettegc said:


> Sorry guys. The title of the topic does say ceiling fan though.:thumbsup:


 It's electures fault ... I trusted him ....


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

clw1963 said:


> Doh!!


Double Duh..... on me.....:laughing:




(Boy... These are good cold pills):yes:


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

vettegc said:


> I'm doing the wiring rough-in for a new construction. My dad said he thought the new fans just needed 12-2? Is this correct. Should I wire with 12-3 for any reason?


New construction. No switch loops needed. 12 AWG wire a bit of overkill. Like jbfan says, three wire to each fan rated box. This allows separate control (from the wall) of fan and light. Two wire would need either a remote or use of the pull chains on the fans. I prefer wall control (I gots too many remotes as is...).


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

vettegc said:


> Sorry guys. The title of the topic does say ceiling fan though.:thumbsup:


Got it.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Now to answer your question. #14 is all that is needed.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Stubbie said:


> I don't see where a switch loop is being talked about other than your earlier question? As an aside I don't think an inspector would have too much of a problem giving exception to the neutral requirement in a home your building for yourself .. just my opinion. IMO this is a ridiculous requirement for dwellings other than new for sale, plot homes.


I have a problem with it. Code is code.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Stubbie said:


> I don't see where a switch loop is being talked about other than your earlier question? As an aside I don't think an inspector would have too much of a problem giving exception to the neutral requirement in a home your building for yourself .. just my opinion. IMO this is a ridiculous requirement for dwellings other than new for sale, plot homes.




I use high end devices, almost every device requires a neutral connection, I hate my co workers if they leave a dead end 3-way, and the homeowner decides they want the dimmer at that location.... Grrrrrrr......


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

How about this .. the neutral in the switch box should be a FPN in the NEC ...


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Stubbie said:


> How about this .. the neutral in the switch box should be a FPN in the NEC ...


Well.... Without the requirement for a neutral at switches, the NEC will not have a basis to expand their authority, and maintain their jobs, and require occupancy sensors etc in the next several code cycles.

Think about it.... if you are an agency based on contolling and regulations, you don't have a job unless you keep finding things to control/regulate.


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