# ball joint?



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

95 mercury villager. Pulling out of parking spot. Low speed turn. Pop! Limped it home with a crunching sound over bumps. Jacked it up and the wheel popped when the weight came off the wheel. The wheel felt loose, like the lugnut weren' on tight.

Ball joint? I think so.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Bigplanz said:


> 95 mercury villager. Pulling out of parking spot. Low speed turn. Pop! Limped it home with a crunching sound over bumps. Jacked it up and the wheel popped when the weight came off the wheel. *The wheel felt loose, like the lugnut weren' on tight.*
> 
> Ball joint? I think so.


Ayuh,... So far, I'd guess the lug nuts are loose,....

The only way to tell what's got the slop in it, is to wiggle, 'n Observe,...

Ya got it jacked up, have someone alternate pushin', 'n pullin' on the top, 'n bottom of the tire/ wheel, while you crawl under it, 'n Look,...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Did more damage driving it home, then calling a local tow company to haul it to your house.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

I say it's lug nut. You don't go far with busted ball joint. Greg is right though. Trying to drive only makes whatever was wrong - worse. Even if it's simple lug nut. Studs go bust, ssud holes in alloys go out of round and enlarge. Horror.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Do not I repeat DO NOT even attempt to drive this another foot, Get it towed to a repair shop, or repair it yourself, But DO NOT drive it. 

I tried to drive one once( in 1977) with bad ball joints, I ended up in the hospital for 6 weeks, with a busted hip, and large bills to the hospital, state road and bridge department. they do not like it when you take out a bridge abutment. 

I repeat *DO NOT *drive it.


ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Lug nuts were tight. Used an impact wrench to get them off. Since i got it home, if not a ball joint, what then?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Bearing, A arm , tie rod end, drag link, pitman arm, etc. 

GET IT TO A FRONT END REPAIR SHOP. 

ED


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Do not forget about the Transmission damage. Caused by driving it. Lower Control arm comes to mind also. Only way to find out is to crawl underneath and start looking.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Transmission damage is minor, beside the loss of life or limbs, from the certain accident that will happen if they try to drive it much farther. 

I am trying to save them from themselves. 

HOPE THAT IT WORKS

ED GROGAN


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Not for how far they drove it. If you were just backing out and heard it, then pulled back in, minor damage. Driving it home for who knows how many miles, major damage.

For the cost of the work, possible new tranny from a salvage yard. The OP could pick up a 8 year old Van at that cost.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

If you can wiggle the tire like the lugs are loose I would say the bearings are gone or tie rod.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Side to side, lots of wiggle. Top to bottom, not so much.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Lower Control Arm most likely.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Bigplanz said:


> Side to side, lots of wiggle. Top to bottom, not so much.



Tie rod end/tie rod. Key is " in turn". 

You did get her on jackstand, right? Damage of such magnitude should be fairly easily noticed.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> Tie rod end/tie rod. Key is " in turn".
> 
> You did get her on jackstand, right? Damage of such magnitude should be fairly easily noticed.


Or idler arm could be shot.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Tie rod end/tie rod. Key is " in turn".
> 
> You did get her on jackstand, right? Damage of such magnitude should be fairly easily noticed.



I am thinking tie rod. Ball joint breaks, wheel collapses. Tie rod goes pop, car still drives, crunches over bumps. Shouldn't have driven it at all, of course.

Had it on one jack stands.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, tie rod end ball joint goes pop, wheel turns either in or out-ward and can't drive. 
But neither tie rod nor tie rod end bear any suspension capacity. They simply turn the wheel on hub knuckles. So "popped" wheel does not quite match.
Did someone say control arm bushings? As control arm bushgings definitely can give side to side wobble.
Not sure.... You HAD her on jackstands and did NOT find anything? Jam pry bar between control arms and something sturdy, and move control arms parallel to the ground, watching bushings. There should be no play really.
Also, strut plates could do that... Struts bearing and bearing plate ARE part of suspension.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Well, tie rod end ball joint goes pop, wheel turns either in or out-ward and can't drive.
> But neither tie rod nor tie rod end bear any suspension capacity. They simply turn the wheel on hub knuckles. So "popped" wheel does not quite match.
> Did someone say control arm bushings? As control arm bushgings definitely can give side to side wobble.
> Not sure.... You HAD her on jackstands and did NOT find anything? Jam pry bar between control arms and something sturdy, and move control arms parallel to the ground, watching bushings. There should be no play really.
> Also, strut plates could do that... Struts bearing and bearing plate ARE part of suspension.


Good points. I looked at it only briefly. My 5 year old son wanted to "help" so my diagnosis didn't get far.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Check the struts also. They will pop and bang over bumps and turns. Could be a broken bolt anywhere also. 

To check the ball joints on vehicles with coil over struts the suspension needs to 'unloaded' so jack stands need to be under the frame. Grab the tire/rim at 12 and 6 push on the top and pull on the bottom, then reverse. Also while your there you can check the tie rods by grabbing at 9 and 3 doing the same push pull method. Get your eyes on it if you do feel excessive play to double check and make sure it's not somethign else.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Bigplanz said:


> Good points. I looked at it only briefly. My 5 year old son wanted to "help" so my diagnosis didn't get far.


Big, I think, you simply need a large pry bar ans some quality time with your car on solid jack stands. Kid can help, it's OK to get dirty with manly stuff.:thumbup:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Tie rod is shot. It moves easily by hand. Strut is separated from top. When i lifted the car the strut completely seperated from the van. Sway bar and control arm bushing are shot. Basically the whole suspension is worn out.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Now for the big decision, Is it worth the expense to repair, or do you start over with another?

Only you and your financial advisor know for sure.:yes:

Thank you for the follow up to the initial query.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I have a 2000 windstar so i will probably just sell to a salvage yard.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Rock auto has a complete strut/coil assembly for $60 so maybe i'll just replace the bad parts in the driveway. I'm sure the neighbors will love that.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Picture of bad tie rod. Strut is next, after pay day.

Edit to add: couldn't get the pic to upload.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Glad to know that you have not given up on the van.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Strut is next. It is broken at the top of the piston. I sprayed PB blaster on the strut bolt nuts so it can soak in. Tomorrow i will try to break them loose with my hf electric impact wrench. If i get them loose i'll get a replacement strut assembly from rock auto for $60. I'll replace the strut out on the street, in front of the house like i did the tie rod, ghetto style, yo.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

Watch the big strut spring. Those suckers can fly like an eagle if suddenly decompressed. I've replaced hundreds of front coil springs and struts on Windbags over the last ten years. The coils loved to snap towards the bottom in states that use road salt. Then about half the time they'd also pop the front tire as they started to unwind around the bottom strut plate. Good luck!


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Marqed97 said:


> Watch the big strut spring. Those suckers can fly like an eagle if suddenly decompressed. I've replaced hundreds of front coil springs and struts on Windbags over the last ten years. The coils loved to snap towards the bottom in states that use road salt. Then about half the time they'd also pop the front tire as they started to unwind around the bottom strut plate. Good luck!


This is a strut on a villager. I'm driving my wife's windstar while the villager is out of service. No rush on it. I am not sure if the spring is completely decompressed when the van is on jack stands. The strut piston just dangles in there, a good 3-4 inch gap between the strut plate and piston. I have the factory service manual and it has the coil free (uncompressed) length. I'll measure it tomorrow.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

Bigplanz said:


> This is a strut on a villager. I'm driving my wife's windstar while the villager is out of service. No rush on it. I am not sure if the spring is completely decompressed when the van is on jack stands. The strut piston just dangles in there, a good 3-4 inch gap between the strut plate and piston. I have the factory service manual and it has the coil free (uncompressed) length. I'll measure it tomorrow.


Good idea. There's a lot of force there on strut spring assemblies. Even when the strut and coil spring are out and laying on a bench there are a few hundred pounds of preload force on the spring. The big nut in the middle of the top plate is supposed to hold it all together. There a few different varieties of front struts out there but the vast majority look like this:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Marqed97 said:


> Good idea. There's a lot of force there on strut spring assemblies. Even when the strut and coil spring are out and laying on a bench there are a few hundred pounds of preload force on the spring. The big nut in the middle of the top plate is supposed to hold it all together. There a few different varieties of front struts out there but the vast majority look like this:


That's what mine looks like. Number 1 is the nut that sheared off.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Big, with that much damage, if you decide to replace strut, simply buy complete assey. It's few bucks more, but you'll have new everything.
How in the world you managed to rip all this out, have no idea. Must have been helluva hit.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Big, with that much damage, if you decide to replace strut, simply buy complete assey. It's few bucks more, but you'll have new everything.
> How in the world you managed to rip all this out, have no idea. Must have been helluva hit.


Strut assembly, complete, at rock auto is $60. A monroe quick strut assembly is $120. Heard the pop while pulling out of a parking space. 2 mph!


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

No kidding. Must be Ford thing. I had mine you could send to Ford museum.
Buy MOnroe. No good struts/complete assey, for $60. Unless ridding of car.
Making sure - complete, as in - spring+strut+bearing plat?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Villager = rebadged nissan quest. I am intriqued by a $60 strut assembly. Fits right in with my buy it dirt cheap at harbor freight ethos!

How bad can it be on a 19 year old minivan that is driven 5K miles a year shlepping me to work and kroger?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=4425039&cc=1204276


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Indeed. Go for it.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Hf electric impact blew the strut nuts off, no problem. I will probably have to raise the control arm a little and put spring compressors on the coil to make any energy in it is controlled. Don't want coil popping in my face.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

The uncompressed length of the coil spring is 15.39 inch. The length at max travel on the van is 13 inches, so there is still energy stored in the coil.


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