# Straightening receptacle wall box?



## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't know what kinds of idiots think that this is acceptable. Is there an easy non-destructive way to fix it? This is a house I'm getting ready to rent out, so I don't want to go crazy. Thanks.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Go to an electrical supply house and ask for a "Madison strap".

Home Depot also carries them but most of the Orange aprons do not know what or where they are.

Bring the picture.


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

If you've never heard of these before, like me, a brief read will answer all of your questions.
http://electrical.about.com/od/diyprojectsmadeeasy/ss/installcutinbox_5.htm

Neat and simple.


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## RocketGal (Mar 29, 2012)

The box is not flush with the wall. Do you need to remove the nail that holds the box to the stud then re-install the box so it's flush with the drywall using the Madison straps?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

RocketGal said:


> The box is not flush with the wall. Do you need to remove the nail that holds the box to the stud then re-install the box so it's flush with the drywall using the Madison straps?



Not necessary. The left side is nailed to the stud and is OK, the right side is protruding past the drywall. Use a Madison strap on the right side only to pull that side back flush.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I kill the power to that outlet, take the outlet out of the box (no need to undo the wires)
Drill a hole toward the back of the box, add a drywall screw in the hole.
Never going to move again.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

joecaption said:


> I kill the power to that outlet, take the outlet out of the box (no need to undo the wires)
> Drill a hole toward the back of the box, add a drywall screw in the hole.
> Never going to move again.


Not that I would not do that but I was giving a code compliant method (the screw is a violation - there is a danger of the wire chafing on the screw head:whistling2.


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## jponto07 (Jul 6, 2012)

Just a thought here, but how full is the box? Is it at all a possibility to trim the protruding portion of the box off to utilize the remaining portion? 

This may violate some type of code...However, you have a plastic box and it seems so easy to do this way with a multi-tool. 

Thoughts?


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## jponto07 (Jul 6, 2012)

rjniles said:


> Not that I would not do that but I was giving a code compliant method (the screw is a violation - there is a danger of the wire chafing on the screw head:whistling2.


+1 on both points


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

So it's ok to use a metal box but not use a screw?
How is a screw that's in the middle of the box behind there the wires go going to touch a hot wire?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

As to the screw (or cutting the box), they are both modifications of a listed device.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The problem is the stud twisted, not necessarily the way the box was installed.

As RJ already said, the screw through the side is not a code recognized method. I doubt you could get the screw far enough back in the box to make a difference.


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## Bernie Brewer (Jun 29, 2013)

I would kill the power to the receptacle, cut the box out (just have to cut the two nails holding the box with a sawzall) then replace the box with a plastic cut-in box.


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## ratherbefishing (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks for the tip on the Madison strap. I have a box doing the same thing. Didn't even notice it until I put on the switchplate, and it isn't quite tight against the wall. I've printed the picture and am gonna stop by the big orange box on the way home.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

"Madison Straps" huh? Seen them before, just never knew what they were called.


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

joecaption said:


> I kill the power to that outlet, take the outlet out of the box (no need to undo the wires)
> Drill a hole toward the back of the box, add a drywall screw in the hole.
> Never going to move again.


I'm puzzled as to how this works. What are you driving that screw into? The drywall on the opposite side of the wall? I can't imagine that would hold well, plus you don't want a screw coming out through drywall on the exterior of a wall, obviously. I must be missing something.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

md2lgyk said:


> "Madison Straps" huh? Seen them before, just never knew what they were called.


They have a lot of different names, I believe Madison is the company that created them.

I always called them "battleships", that is what they look like when turned on their side.


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## RocketGal (Mar 29, 2012)

"What are you driving that screw into? The drywall on the opposite side of the wall?"
I think the hole and the screw are placed in the side of the box _near_ the back of the box as opposed to the front. On the stud side so the box is affixed to the stud with the new screw.


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

Makes sense. I misinterpreted the word "toward".


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## Bernie Brewer (Jun 29, 2013)

rjniles said:


> They have a lot of different names, I believe Madison is the company that created them.
> 
> I always called them "battleships", that is what they look like when turned on their side.


I have heard them called several different things. Madison Clips, Steamboats, Hold-its, all kinds of things. It varies from contractor to contractor. I once asked a fellow journeyman if he had any Madison Clips in his van- he had no idea what I was talking about. This happens a lot in the trades.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Dave88LX said:


> I don't know what kinds of idiots think that this is acceptable.


Quite possibly the "idiot" did this before the wood twisted and the box was perfectly fine.
Things are not always what they seem.

You're renting the place and you're making this much fuss over something like this???


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

He's renting the place _to someone else_ an he wants it to look nice. Perfectly reasonable thing to do.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

JKeefe said:


> He's renting the place _to someone else_ an he wants it to look nice. Perfectly reasonable thing to do.


Seriously???
One edge of the plate not sitting perfectly flush is "not nice looking"? 
What renter in their right mind would even notice. Besides, did you see that wall color??? 

I am all for perfection, but cases like this are silly IMO.


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

Regardless, the thread is educational. Works for me.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

If we want to get technical, the Madison is not compliant either unless there is a way to ground it.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

k_buz said:


> If we want to get technical, the Madison is not compliant either unless there is a way to ground it.


K_Buz,

Are you saying that in this case it is because in a plastic box? There is the possibility it could come in contact with a live terminal and become energized. When ever I use a Madison strap I always tape around the receptacle and cover the hot & neutral terminal. (Probably does not count:no.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

That is exactly what I'm saying. No, the tape doesn't count and yes, I have fixed a crooked box with a Madison, but technically it is not compliant.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Quite possibly the "idiot" did this before the wood twisted and the box was perfectly fine.
> Things are not always what they seem.
> 
> You're renting the place and you're making this much fuss over something like this???


I agree. More work than it's worth. If it's securely fastened to the 2x4 and it got twisted then it's not worth fighting with.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> I agree. More work than it's worth. If it's securely fastened to the 2x4 and it got twisted then it's not worth fighting with.


The only other option was suggested earlier. Cut the box out with a sawsall, pull the box and install an old work box. Use a jumbo cover to hide the dinged drywall (they look like hell but do the job).


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

rjniles said:


> The only other option was suggested earlier. Cut the box out with a sawsall, pull the box and install an old work box. Use a jumbo cover to hide the dinged drywall (they look like hell but do the job).


It would be a code violation to use an oversized plate, 1/8th is the maximum width that can exist between the box and sheetrock,


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

stickboy1375 said:


> It would be a code violation to use an oversized plate, 1/8th is the maximum width that can exist between the box and sheetrock,


Caulk around the box.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

rjniles said:


> Caulk around the box.


Why use a bigger plate then? I guess my point is, why even make plates larger than normal size?


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## ratherbefishing (Jan 13, 2011)

Just got the Madison Strap installed. 68 cents for 2 of them. Worked great!! Thanks. (And I'm not even the OP.)


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

stickboy1375 said:


> Why use a bigger plate then? I guess my point is, why even make plates larger than normal size?


Caulk does not make the neatest looking repair and does not match the paint color.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Those Madison (or whatever regional name they have) straps sound like the way to go. I'll have to find them. Thanks for the answers!



jponto07 said:


> Just a thought here, but how full is the box? Is it at all a possibility to trim the protruding portion of the box off to utilize the remaining portion?
> 
> This may violate some type of code...However, you have a plastic box and it seems so easy to do this way with a multi-tool.
> 
> Thoughts?


I thought about that too. That would take care of the box itself from protruding, but the receptacle would still screw in at an angle (with the cover following).



Bernie Brewer said:


> I would kill the power to the receptacle, cut the box out (just have to cut the two nails holding the box with a sawzall) then replace the box with a plastic cut-in box.


That crossed my mind, but I didn't want to have to go that far with it.



JKeefe said:


> He's renting the place _to someone else_ an he wants it to look nice. Perfectly reasonable thing to do.


Exactly. I want the place in the best condition I can have it in before I rent it out. 



Speedy Petey said:


> Quite possibly the "idiot" did this before the wood twisted and the box was perfectly fine.
> Things are not always what they seem.
> 
> You're renting the place and you're making this much fuss over something like this???


I over-analyze a lot of things, this I know. This box drives me crazy though. Renting out (I'm the owner), not renting myself. It's very possible the wood twisted, but looking at the quality of work of a lot of things in here, I'm not so sure about that.



Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously???
> One edge of the plate not sitting perfectly flush is "not nice looking"?
> What renter in their right mind would even notice. Besides, did you see that wall color???
> 
> I am all for perfection, but cases like this are silly IMO.


Seriously! Anyone with functioning eyes will notice it.

And for the color, you're going to have to get my wife about that one. I already tried.:whistling2::laughing:


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

rjniles said:


> Caulk does not make the neatest looking repair and does not match the paint color.


I suppose, but a large plate in the same room next to a normal plate is going to look worse than caulk...


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## RocketGal (Mar 29, 2012)

Also called 'device box supports' .... in case you're doing a search on a site like Home Depot or Lowes.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> I suppose, but a large plate in the same room next to a normal plate is going to look worse than caulk...


 that's how they make money on plates, just like potato chips, can't have just one !!


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## sirsparksalot (Oct 16, 2010)

md2lgyk said:


> "Madison Straps" huh? Seen them before, just never knew what they were called.


H-clamps, F-clamps are the two I've heard.


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## sirsparksalot (Oct 16, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> It would be a code violation to use an oversized plate, 1/8th is the maximum width that can exist between the box and sheetrock,


You have GOT to be kidding!!??  Article, please


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## dgfit (Jun 5, 2013)

sirsparksalot said:


> You have GOT to be kidding!!??  Article, please


 Don't know about use of oversized plates, but 314.21 speaks to the 1/8 gap. From NEC 2011. 312.4 also


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Here is the text:


> *314.21 Repairing Noncombustible Surfaces
> *
> Noncombustible surfaces that are broken or incomplete around boxes employing a flush-type cover or faceplate shall be repaired so there will be no gaps or open spaces greater than 3 mm (⅛ in.) at the edge of the box.


Unfortunately, sheetrockers do not own copies of the NEC.


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