# Flat roof, need help



## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

We live in Cleveland Ohio, and we have a 13x11 feet sunroom that was leaking slightly when we bought the house (7/2009). 
So far we spent a fair amount of money trying to fix it (2 'professional' roofers) and the leaking has significantly decreased but we still notice 1 or 2 water dops hanging from the ceiling with very heavy rain. 

And as a side note the 'professional' roofers took the money and never came back!! we called them several times and they kept telling us they'll come back to 'reassess' in 1 or 2 weeks and never do! That's when we gave up on the first and hired the second and same story!!! he even gave us a 1 yr warantee!! Probably next time I should hire a reputable company and spend the extra money!!! 

What they did was a couple of patches were they thought it was leaking.

My wife and I decided to try ourselves, if that doesn't work then we might just need to swallow the bullet and fork out a few grands for a whole new roof 

Any suggestions from anyone? we were thinking something we can buy in one whole piece and just put it over the sunroom roof (which is flat). Something like epdm or pvc and cover the torch down (which seems to be ok in light-medium rain) and not do anymore patching!

And we also think that the gutters might be filling quickly and causing backflow... we try keeping them clean... do we really need them? can I just get rid of them?:icon_confused:


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

leaks are tricky to find. You find one and the rain will find another to get into. This does not mean that it cannot be done.

Yes you need the gutters. If you remove them you jeopardize the foundation. Water must be diverted away from the building.


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

salahnajm said:


> We live in Cleveland Ohio, and we have a 13x11 feet sunroom that was leaking slightly when we bought the house (7/2009).
> So far we spent a fair amount of money trying to fix it (2 'professional' roofers) and the leaking has significantly decreased but we still notice 1 or 2 water dops hanging from the ceiling with very heavy rain.
> 
> And as a side note the 'professional' roofers took the money and never came back!! we called them several times and they kept telling us they'll come back to 'reassess' in 1 or 2 weeks and never do! That's when we gave up on the first and hired the second and same story!!! he even gave us a 1 yr warantee!! Probably next time I should hire a reputable company and spend the extra money!!!
> ...


EPDM is the way to go. Before you lay down a layer of fiberboard and cover it with the EPDM membrane, make sure you only have the only layer of torch down on there. Adding a third layer of roofing (if you already have two on there) would put an awful amount of stress on your support system. EPDM is relatively inexpensive, easy to work with, and if you do have a puncture it's as easy as patching a bike tire. Good luck :thumbsup:


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

So am I correct to assume you hired "roofers" but not roofing contractors?


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

AaronB said:


> So am I correct to assume you hired "roofers" but not roofing contractors?


No, I was a roofer in the DC area for about 6 years. We did a ton of EPDM roofs in the city. 

For material, stick with the Genflex stuff, we never had good luck with Firestone products.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

KyleB said:


> No, I was a roofer in the DC area for about 6 years. We did a ton of EPDM roofs in the city.
> 
> For material, stick with the Genflex stuff, we never had good luck with Firestone products.


Sorry, Kyle, I was talking to the topic poster... I shoilda said something.

Also, EPDM on fiberboard has apparently had some signifcant issues with moisture/condensation under the sheet, deteriorating the board. I have not personally seen this, but only read it online more than a few times.


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

AaronB said:


> Sorry, Kyle, I was talking to the topic poster... I shoilda said something.
> 
> Also, EPDM on fiberboard has apparently had some signifcant issues with moisture/condensation under the sheet, deteriorating the board. I have not personally seen this, but only read it online more than a few times.


That's usually down to improper installation of flashing. I would see it from time to time, but as long as it was put on properly, you won't have a problem. It IS a good idea to re-caulk all of your seams every other year or so, the caulk does tend to degrade over time.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

KyleB said:


> EPDM is the way to go. Before you lay down a layer of fiberboard and cover it with the EPDM membrane, make sure you only have the only layer of torch down on there. Adding a third layer of roofing (if you already have two on there) would put an awful amount of stress on your support system. EPDM is relatively inexpensive, easy to work with, and if you do have a puncture it's as easy as patching a bike tire. Good luck :thumbsup:


Yeah, I was thinking of using epdm; the problem that I'm encountering is to also cover my roof edges before putting down the EPDM. The current torch down covers the roof and around 10inches of the edges, If I put a fiberboard that would cover the flat roof but not the edges, right? and epdm should not touch the torch down roof. I attached pictures to show you what I mean.

I found a retailer selling PVC membranes that should cover my roof in 1 piece (no seems) It comes in 18x18 feet. Will that be better way to go? or do I still have to worry about PVC coming in contact with my roof?




AaronB said:


> So am I correct to assume you hired "roofers" but not roofing contractors?


Yeah, I hired a 'roofer'. You see, we're new to homeowning and we're learning slowly. The 'expert roofer' I got was off of yellowpages, called him in and when he came he sounded decent and seemed to really understand what he was doing. We stressed on him that we needed someone to guarantee his work and not just patch and leave the roof leaking. He assured us that he'll back up his work and wrote a 1 year warantee, signed it in front of us... he patched the roof... it kept leaking (however I have to admit a bit less) and now doesn't answer our calls anymore. If he does, he would tell us that he'll come over 'next week' and we never hear from him.


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

I see one vent pipe in those pictures, are there any other protrusions in the roof? Does it tie into a sloped portion of the roof at any point? I see trees in the background, do you get a lot of debris (branches, etc) falling onto the flat roof? Based on those photos, I'd say that's a good candidate for EPDM, provided that you don't get too many sticks/branches falling down on the roof. Even with a .060 membrane, you might be looking at punctures if a big enough branch fell down. You can still use EPDM on that roof, you'd just cut back the portion of torch-down that is wrapping around the edges and intall a good metal drip edge in it's place.

Have you thought about getting some tar, patching up any visible leaks, and then painting that torch-down roof with some good quality fibered aluminum paint? It's not a permanent solution but it might buy you some time until you decide which roof system to go with. 

I like EPDM because it's relatively inexpensive, and very DIY friendly.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks KyleB!! Very helpful tips!! I will throw some aluminum paint in the meantime. Honestly we have a HUGE tree on our backyard... Lots of branches and debris do fall down on our flat roof. You can't see it very well in my pictures but it's actually one flat roof (no piping no protrusions, that's part of a railing that was installed and taken out to patch were the railings went into the roof. Now it's just 'sitting' on top of the roof and I do not plan to drill any holes to put any railings)

with that said would a one sheet of PVC work? Can I just glue it on my roof? There's a seller that sells an 18x18 Feey PVC sheet that should cover my whole roof in one piece.


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

salahnajm said:


> Thanks KyleB!! Very helpful tips!! I will throw some aluminum paint in the meantime. Honestly we have a HUGE tree on our backyard... Lots of branches and debris do fall down on our flat roof. You can't see it very well in my pictures but it's actually one flat roof (no piping no protrusions, that's part of a railing that was installed and taken out to patch were the railings went into the roof. Now it's just 'sitting' on top of the roof and I do not plan to drill any holes to put any railings)
> 
> with that said would a one sheet of PVC work? Can I just glue it on my roof? There's a seller that sells an 18x18 Feey PVC sheet that should cover my whole roof in one piece.


When you get the paint, make sure you get the 'fibered' paint. Be VERY careful with it too; it can get messy if you're not careful. Don't be afraid to apply it very liberally. 

Honestly, I never worked with PVC. Hopefully someone that has can chime in and give you some pointers. With what you said about the tree cover, I would go with a membrane a bit more impact resistant than EPDM; I have a small flat roof on my house too, and I think I'm going with standing seam tin when the time comes. With three big oak trees over the house, I'm afraid the EPDM would probably puncture.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi salahnajm, before you set off on a diy adventure I would suggest trying a few more roofing contractors.
Call several roofers that offer "free estimates", do not ask them to come fix a leak (do not even mention the leak), simply call and ask for an estimate to replace the roof, this will allow you to gather numerous "free" hands on opinions from roofers, than after the estimate ask each about a possible restoration of the existing roof system.

Some pros suggest you get atleast three estimates, some say just one,
I say call three or four and if you don't feel totally confident with any than call three or four more and continue doing so until you find the company you trust.

When working with flat roofs "EPDM or what ever" the field work is fairly DIY friendly but the detail work is not so much, if you do a class A job in the field and goof up on the detail work your roof will continue leaking even tho it's brand new.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

What exactly did the "roofer" do? Was this his only solution? If not, what were the others?


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

AaronB said:


> What exactly did the "roofer" do? Was this his only solution? If not, what were the others?


Initially there was a satellite dish attached to the roof and also a railing with 4 posts attached to the roof (they were going through the torch down roof). He removed them all and patched the areas beneath them and also patched all the seams. So now my roof is one flat roof with nothing coming out from it. I think this helped a bit, but it still leaks a bit with heavy rains.

From my looking at the roof, and you can probably also see on the picture, I feel that the edges are slowly coming apart.

Our options were to rip the whole roof and place a new one (4-5thousands at least from 2quotes) or do more blind patching as no one is sure were the leak is coming from... (2 'roofers' and 'several' patching).

From my research, and also trying to save from paying a large amount (we recently moved in and had plenty of expenses), I think covering the whole roof with 1 membrane should help... If it doesn't, then probably we should just replace it and then just 'hope' that the new roof doesn't leak (everyone tells us our roof is in great shape anyways; there's a leak somewhere and actually nothing wrong with our torch down roof)


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

salahnajm said:


> Our options were to rip the whole roof and place a new one (4-5thousands at least from 2quotes)


You were quoted 4 to 5 _thousand_ for a 11'x13' flat roof with no protrusions?!?!?!?!?!!? That's bloody robbery. 

What ever roofing companies quoted that to you, never call them for anything.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

KyleB said:


> You were quoted 4 to 5 _thousand_ for a 11'x13' flat roof with no protrusions?!?!?!?!?!!? That's bloody robbery.
> 
> What ever roofing companies quoted that to you, never call them for anything.


?? What's a good price that I should expect then?


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

salahnajm said:


> ?? What's a good price that I should expect then?


11' x 13', correct? That's a little over one square. What type of membrane were they proposing for you? Since we've been talking so much about EPDM, I will tell you that any roofing company that does a fair amount of EPDM could do that roof with the scrap material left over from a bigger job. $1K maybe? 4 to 5 is totally out in left field.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Get a picture of the whole roof and show us where the leak is showing up in the house. 

Kyle, I have done some one square roofs with so much detail work they took two good roofers two days to do. Can't tell without pics.


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## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

You should hear the quotes I am getting in NYC to do my roof. 

I initially though about not bothering with it myself, especially since I will have to do it and pull a few guys from a remodel I am doing. The cheapest quote I got was $11k for 1200sq ft. remove replace, and they were agreing to everything I suggested. Basically noobs. 
Company I liked, 19k. 

Yup, doing it myself.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

*Pictures*

Here are the pictures of my roof... I honestly feel its a small roof and can do it myself (with some extra work and time).

I don't want to pay anymore 'roofers' unless it still leaks and then I will hire a professional company and pay extra money. What really bothers me with these 'independent' or 'cheap' roofers is that they do the work and DO NOT GUARANTEE their work. I honestly called them back and told them that I DO NOT want them to come back to fix the roof, I just want to ask them the questions I'm asking you guys... one of them said he'll come by in a few days (that was like 3 weeks ago):furious:. 

When we got these 2 roofers, we went through 5-6 others and all of them said that our roof doesnt need to be ripped (they quoted around 4-5k if we decided to rip and install a whole new roof, I think one said like 2-3K).

My experience sucks and I do not want to deal with similar people anymore. I'm willing to hire a professional company, after I do it myself and find its not working..

I just need to figure out which material would be best to cover the roof with a single ply material.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

To do this right, you're going to have to remove some siding, and the door from its jamb and replace all of it.


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## KyleB (Mar 30, 2010)

AaronB said:


> Get a picture of the whole roof and show us where the leak is showing up in the house.
> 
> Kyle, I have done some one square roofs with so much detail work they took two good roofers two days to do. Can't tell without pics.


Same here, although for $4000 on a one square EPDM roof I would expect a TON of detail work.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Where is the water showing up inside?


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

You may consider putting rubber down, as it solved my flat roof problem. It comes 10 feet wide and any length and its as thick as a car innertube. Tear up all the old,replace any rotten wood .You may get some wrinkles, but so what .......just caulk the seams and use galvanized roofing nails. Your size roof for less than 200 bucks for parts. And no liquid tar please.

And get rid of that railing........keep a ladder up there if you need it in case of fire.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

bernieb said:


> You may consider putting rubber down, as it solved my flat roof problem. It comes 10 feet wide and any length and its as thick as a car innertube. Tear up all the old,replace any rotten wood .You may get some wrinkles, but so what .......just caulk the seams and use galvanized roofing nails. Your size roof for less than 200 bucks for parts. And no liquid tar please.


This is by far the most incorrect way I have ever read on how to install a rubber roof.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

I respect your title as being a professional, so please inform me ,have you had any rubber roofs blow up and away with your method, so to speak?


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

bernieb said:


> You may consider putting rubber down, as it solved my flat roof problem. It comes 10 feet wide and any length and its as thick as a car innertube. Tear up all the old,replace any rotten wood .You may get some wrinkles, but so what .......just caulk the seams and use galvanized roofing nails. Your size roof for less than 200 bucks for parts. And no liquid tar please.
> 
> And get rid of that railing........keep a ladder up there if you need it in case of fire.


 
I'm trying to find a solution WITHOUT having to rip out my old roof or cutting any edges off... I want to cover it. Its a minor leak, only with heavy rain. If I start ripping the roof I know I'm going to dig myself into a very deep hole :whistling2:

I know I can't put down EPDM over my torch down. Can I use a membrane like this to cover my roof and then put the EPDM over it??

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

BTW I'm not sure where the water is dripping from as the inside has a finished ceiling (again I do not want to rip it out to see were water is coming from)


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Any material with an asphalt/oil base will cause issues if it comes in contact with the EPDM.
You can cover the field with insulation 'Fiber board or ISO' fastened into the existing roof 'not loose laid' and glue your EPDM to it.
You will still have detail work to deal with at the edges of the roof, walls, etc.


If it's a minor leak, how about you use Roof Cement & Cotton Membrane 'mesh' to cover all seams, flashing's and any blisters or rotting portions of the existing roof and than coat it with a fiber based aluminum coating.

This method will add years of life to your roof, will not cost much more and is far easier a method for a diy project.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

My question was... Where is the lak showing up in the house, not where is it entering the roofing.

If you can answer this question, we may be able to provide some direction on where to look.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

*leak*



AaronB said:


> My question was... Where is the lak showing up in the house, not where is it entering the roofing.
> 
> If you can answer this question, we may be able to provide some direction on where to look.


The ceiling as you can see from the pics is finished. I do not want to rip it out to see where the leak is coming from. The circles (poorly drawn) are where I see water drops with heavy rain. The arrow is where the door to access the roof from above is (you see the door on my previous pictures of the roof)


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Yes, nobody would ever suggest you rip out the ceiling... that was never a question.

Can you take some closeup pictures of the doorway/wall area?


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

nice room


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

salahnajm , listen up ......time is on your side ,warm weather ahead, and think this out,as you don't want to fight this leaking next winter. It appears you have 8 inch aluminum siding, so expose about 18 inches of what's behind it,from the roof up that is. You need to get rid of that door, and put a window in, as you need a straight shot to flash to keep the effects of a snow build-up. Forget that 30 lb felt,and if your lumber feels solid with no spongy spots just glue the rubber to the roof you now have, but it will be lumpy and have some wrinkles.When you get to the edge of the roof ,just roll it over into the gutter till you hit the gutter stand-offs. Have Home Depot rip you a 2x4x8 green treated half inch by the inch and a half way and pre-drill the holes and lay it on top the gutter stand-offs and nail through the rubber to hold it down. High wind can rip up the rubber no matter how well you glue it. You also need to run the rubber up the wall at least 12 inches, 18 is betterthat you uncovered and use roofing nails to span the off-set gaps in the old wood siding. Once the rubber is in place, you can buy some roll flashing 18" and put a slight bend out 4 inches using a 2x4.That 4 inches will be exposed. When you put the siding back you will put holes in the metal and rubber ,but the rubber should seal. Getting back to the gutter ,you will need gutter guard and screw it to that wood stripping. This will make your wife proud of you ,she may even fix your coffee in the morning. By the way you'll need some siding where the door is. bernie here......72 and still learning myself.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

bernieb said:


> salahnajm , listen up ......time is on your side ,warm weather ahead, and think this out,as you don't want to fight this leaking next winter. It appears you have 8 inch aluminum siding, so expose about 18 inches of what's behind it,from the roof up that is. You need to get rid of that door, and put a window in, as you need a straight shot to flash to keep the effects of a snow build-up. Forget that 30 lb felt,and if your lumber feels solid with no spongy spots just glue the rubber to the roof you now have, but it will be lumpy and have some wrinkles.When you get to the edge of the roof ,just roll it over into the gutter till you hit the gutter stand-offs. Have Home Depot rip you a 2x4x8 green treated half inch by the inch and a half way and pre-drill the holes and lay it on top the gutter stand-offs and nail through the rubber to hold it down. High wind can rip up the rubber no matter how well you glue it. You also need to run the rubber up the wall at least 12 inches, 18 is betterthat you uncovered and use roofing nails to span the off-set gaps in the old wood siding. Once the rubber is in place, you can buy some roll flashing 18" and put a slight bend out 4 inches using a 2x4.That 4 inches will be exposed. When you put the siding back you will put holes in the metal and rubber ,but the rubber should seal. Getting back to the gutter ,you will need gutter guard and screw it to that wood stripping. This will make your wife proud of you ,she may even fix your coffee in the morning. By the way you'll need some siding where the door is. bernie here......72 and still learning myself.


Your wife will make your coffee for about a week when this way of doing it fails miserably.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

Mr AaronB, if you would be kind enough to go into detail where my idea will fail, it would certainly be appreciated. Afterall this man Salahnajm is looking for opinions and has already been stung by people who say they know the answer. This is a diy board .....people helping people........so I'm not soliciting a contract. Please, your answer, so others will learn.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

bernieb said:


> Mr AaronB, if you would be kind enough to go into detail where my idea will fail, it would certainly be appreciated. Afterall this man Salahnajm is looking for opinions and has already been stung by people who say they know the answer. This is a diy board .....people helping people........so I'm not soliciting a contract. Please, your answer, so others will learn.


Yeah, I have to agree with bernieb... I'm just asking for different opinions for the simplest (and as effective as possible) DIY... Aaron, if you think his diy wouldn't work, what would you suggest? and why wouldnt it work? 

I guess, all I want to do is cover the roof with a single ply material and get the edges well as bernieb said. I'm still not sure which material to go with; epdm, pvc or tpo. The thing I wasn't sure about epdm, which seems the most recommended material, is that it reacts with the tar making the job slightly more complicated by needing to cover my roof first and then apply the epdm.

Is there another material I can get to cover my roof in one piece that's good enough and I can just glue over my current roof? and of course I will plan to work the edges very well.

So It's been raining slightly these past couple of days and no leaks so far so I do not want to rip or cut or drill holes in my current roof.

Worse case senario for my diy I guess would be a complete disaster and then I'll have to hire a professional company to rip the whole roof and do a new one :whistling2: (hopefully not)


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

salahnajm said:


> Yeah, I have to agree with bernieb... I'm just asking for different opinions for the simplest (and as effective as possible) DIY... Aaron, if you think his diy wouldn't work, what would you suggest? and why wouldnt it work?
> 
> I guess, all I want to do is cover the roof with a single ply material and get the edges well as bernieb said. I'm still not sure which material to go with; epdm, pvc or tpo. The thing I wasn't sure about epdm, which seems the most recommended material, is that it reacts with the tar making the job slightly more complicated by needing to cover my roof first and then apply the epdm.
> 
> ...


bernieb's method is a tru diy method, any roofing contractor who did work like that would not last long, thus any roofers replying to his comment is going to recommend you away from that installation procedure.

Will bernieb's way work? 

I cut the tip of my finger 70% off once at work, it was roughly 7.30am,
I pushed it back together, wrapped a piece of my shirt that I just cut off for that purpose and wrapped all that in black electrical tape, worked 10 hours, went home and I had my Wife clean it and wrap with butterfly band aids, did that work?, I still have my finger, so Yeah.
Would some one who works in the medical profession tell a patient calling in on the phone or on a website forum recommend that method, noway.

As a roofer ArronB and any other respectful roofer can only advise you on how to install/repair your roof according to manufacture specifications, using time tested methods.

Any single ply roofing material that you can install in a single piece will be non compatible with the existing roofing system.
Any edge detail work that uses lumber instead of termination 'metal' bar and doe's not have water block 'specific type of caulking' behind it and fastened properly with screws 'not nails', will not last the full term of the expected roof span.
Termination bar, or flat stalk metal flashing should be used on the walls instead of just roofing nails ran through the material alone.
Epdm, tpo, etc., are not self adhering materials and will not act as washers to any nails/fasteners ran through them.

If your sure this is a diy project your up to, I suggest you be patient on walk through the scenario process of questions that ArronB is asking and than decide on which method/type of repair you will go with.

No disrespect meant ot anyone here, we are offering our assistance free of charge and doing our best to assist you.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

I have to admitt Slyfox ,it was a professional answer, but lets be fair with the home owner on where he's at in his life. It sounds like yourself and Aaron are truly professionals with many busted fingers to prove it. My theory is ,this home owner is going to do the job himself with a limited amount of money to spend and he wants to do it himself, and I'm sure we all got started that way. I'm trying to tell the man he can stop it from leaking for less that 500 bucks with my method. A five thousand dollar roof job could put this man in divorce court ,but the roof won't leak. Which way does a responsible contractor choose? a hard decision for some. With all the responses this homeowner has gotten ,no-one has detailed him a work formula for the perfect job. The man has sent numerous first class pictures ,what else do you need? tears in his eyes?


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Well, now I have asked a couple of questions, in order to form the best remedy that I can with the limited power of the internet.

All I am getting is responses such as "I don't want to tear it off, or cut into it", etc., which I have never suggested. If the poster assumed I had said these thinds, well then that is his problem, and he will have to deal with that personality issue on his olwn.. I cannot help him with that.

I asked for a closeup of the door and wall areas... there are issues I am looking for. I have not yet seen the pictures I requested, which would allow me to help the original poster possibly save the time and hassle of putting on a roof that is likely to fail.

Now if you're wanting simple advice on how to cheaply stop the leaks, then we are working toward a common goal. I am doing this for no benefit to me. I don't get paid to do this. There is no defined return on investment of my time, so please bear with my deductive questions. We will find a solution for you if we cooperate.

Once again, can I please get a closeup of the bottom of the door and the roof/siding transition, especially that gap in the siding, and the bottom of the door? Please make no further assumptions as to what you think I may tell you, but have not. I am trying to help you. I have not said any of the things that you keep posting about tearing off, or cutting into, etc. Those kinds of assumptions only hinder progress.

Your roofing membrane does not seem worn out, and I am suspecting these two areas for flaws in the detailing.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

I cannot give out good advice with poor data to go off of.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

bernieb said:


> I have to admitt Slyfox ,it was a professional answer, but lets be fair with the home owner on where he's at in his life. It sounds like yourself and Aaron are truly professionals with many busted fingers to prove it. My theory is ,this home owner is going to do the job himself with a limited amount of money to spend and he wants to do it himself, and I'm sure we all got started that way. I'm trying to tell the man he can stop it from leaking for less that 500 bucks with my method. A five thousand dollar roof job could put this man in divorce court ,but the roof won't leak. Which way does a responsible contractor choose? a hard decision for some. With all the responses this homeowner has gotten ,no-one has detailed him a work formula for the perfect job. The man has sent numerous first class pictures ,what else do you need? tears in his eyes?


What I need is a few closeups of the wall/roof transition areas, as I have requested.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

bernieb said:


> I have to admitt Slyfox ,it was a professional answer, but lets be fair with the home owner on where he's at in his life. It sounds like yourself and Aaron are truly professionals with many busted fingers to prove it. My theory is ,this home owner is going to do the job himself with a limited amount of money to spend and he wants to do it himself, and I'm sure we all got started that way. I'm trying to tell the man he can stop it from leaking for less that 500 bucks with my method. A five thousand dollar roof job could put this man in divorce court ,but the roof won't leak. Which way does a responsible contractor choose? a hard decision for some. With all the responses this homeowner has gotten ,no-one has detailed him a work formula for the perfect job. The man has sent numerous first class pictures ,what else do you need? tears in his eyes?


You misunderstood my comment Sir.
I was not trying to say your method will or will not work (I will not comment either way), nor was I attempting to be disrespectful too you.

Was your post on your installation method an acceptable diy'r response, yes it was.
Was your post on your installation method a professional (contractor) response, no it was not.

I can not reply as a diy'r, I can only reply as a roofing contractor who has done this type of work for 30 years now.

If he takes your advice, God speed to him, I'm not offended at all and I wish him good luck.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

*Pictures*



AaronB said:


> I cannot give out good advice with poor data to go off of.


These are the pictures you were asking for, let me know if you need more pics...

I think the leak is possibly coming from the sides with heavy rain, specifically the first pic I put up on post #8... nothing to base my theory on, but that's the only thing I notice that's probably not sealed well (the area between the 2 membranes on the side)


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

in order to properly waterproof your roof, whatever you choose, you will have to remove a couple of courses of siding.

Unfortunately, with the door this close to the roof, this will always be a PITA. I suspect you are having issues at or behind the siding. I cannot tell for sure, but now you know where to look.


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## salahnajm (Apr 2, 2010)

AaronB said:


> in order to properly waterproof your roof, whatever you choose, you will have to remove a couple of courses of siding.
> 
> Unfortunately, with the door this close to the roof, this will always be a PITA. I suspect you are having issues at or behind the siding. I cannot tell for sure, but now you know where to look.


I think I can rip the siding (right?) and look behind it and take a few pictures.. It wouldn't be a big issue putting the siding back, right? I'll have to find some time after work these next few days...

So you don't think its from the sides like I was thinking (post #8 where the gutters are?)


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

Salahnajm: You probably have the same type of covering/siding that's in your sun room, it was popular in the fifties . Remove your aluminum siding in the affected area using a flat bar, it'll take about 10 minutes. What siding you take off put in a safe place.After all roofing is done and flashing is in, you'll be putting in a vinyl j channel ,sold at home depot and you can pop rivot it to the flashing, and seal the rivots.Then you'll have to measure carefully to make sure the siding works out,when you put back. No, do not start off by sawing the siding in parallel with the roof line. From your pictures it appears you have about three inches of roof fall each side of center ,which is good. What ever material you choose ,give lots of consideration to the flashing as a hard driving rain can be hard to seal out. You got all summer so take your time.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

Here's another option you may consider: I'm convinced your leaks are coming in through the doorway area, and not the gutter area. I still say you need to get rid of the door and put in a window ,or even omit the window if you don't have to have it. For the time being you can even do what Slyfox said , just recloth the seams and coat with what he said, the roof appears to be in good shape from the pictures, but once you do the flashing first class, you can always slide your covering under the flashing later, or have a total rip-out, but your walls will be done. Aluim siding should be done first class, and it's very simple to do. bernie


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

bernieb said:


> Here's another option you may consider: I'm convinced your leaks are coming in through the doorway area, and not the gutter area. I still say you need to get rid of the door and put in a window ,or even omit the window if you don't have to have it. For the time being you can even do what Slyfox said , just recloth the seams and coat with what he said, the roof appears to be in good shape from the pictures, but once you do the flashing first class, you can always slide your covering under the flashing later, or have a total rip-out, but your walls will be done. Aluim siding should be done first class, and it's very simple to do. bernie


I vote against replacing the door with a window since I know how to waterproof the door. However, you will have to remove and replace the door.
Your new flashing should run underthe door sill for proper water flow. New flashing should also wrap up the door framing between the framing and the jamb, and around to the area behind the window. The top of the soon to be installed roof flashing should go behind the siding underlayment and be sealed to the wall sheathing.

Be careful when replacing the siding, as you will not want to puncture your soon to be newly roof flashing. You may be able to get away with a few face nails through the course of siding in order to secure it. Removing and replacing aluminum siding is a PITA to get it nice.


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