# concrete against brick



## joecaption

Not enough info, no pictures of what you have now, hard to say.


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## baldydan

joecaption said:


> Not enough info, no pictures of what you have now, hard to say.


The existing patio is 8 ft from house and I want to marry it up but the level line is above house foundation so I need to go against brick for drainage pitch..Will this be a problem in the future?


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## concretemasonry

baldydan -

Where are you located and what is the climate?

In a cold/cool climate the patio can move and there should be some sort of a "soft joint" between the concrete and more permanent house.

If there is a possibility of water (rising or blown) getting to the brick, you could create an interior water/moisture/mold problem because of the bad elevation comparison. Your patio may be too high for site and drainage.

Dick


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## TRUEPRO

You will be fine pouring concrete up to the brick. Some contractors will put expansion joint material against the brick because the concrete will crack away from the brick. The expansion joint material "EJM" will eventually deteriorate and leave you a bigger gap then what the concrete settling away from the brick will. Pour the crete right up against the brick. If you concerned about moisture, wait until you see the separation of the crete from the brick (which might take some time) and fill the void with elastomeric caulk. This will keep the water out and allow for any more expansion. 

Good luck.


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## jomama45

TRUEPRO said:


> You will be fine pouring concrete up to the brick. Some contractors will put expansion joint material against the brick because the concrete will crack away from the brick. The expansion joint material "EJM" will eventually deteriorate and leave you a bigger gap then what the concrete settling away from the brick will. Pour the crete right up against the brick. If you concerned about moisture, wait until you see the separation of the crete from the brick (which might take some time) and fill the void with elastomeric caulk. This will keep the water out and allow for any more expansion.
> 
> Good luck.


Absolutely terrible advise, regardless of where you live, you need an expansion joint between the two.

Should you have concern pouring concrete above the foundation line? Yes, the wood skirt, mud sill and floor joists are far more likely to rot out much faster. That being said, there's not always a feasible option.


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## TRUEPRO

jomama45 said:


> Absolutely terrible advise, regardless of where you live, you need an expansion joint between the two.
> 
> Should you have concern pouring concrete above the foundation line? Yes, the wood skirt, mud sill and floor joists are far more likely to rot out much faster. That being said, there's not always a feasible option.


Obviously you base your advice on opinion and not fact or experience. I have done it both ways for years and using expansion joint material is a waste. Looks like you use google to answer these questions. I feel sorry for DIYers that listen to you.


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## jomama45

TRUEPRO said:


> Obviously you base your advice on opinion and not fact or experience. I have done it both ways for years and using expansion joint material is a waste. Looks like you use google to answer these questions. I feel sorry for DIYers that listen to you.


I could take the simple adolescent approach and personally attack you, but to be honest, I am indeed a "True Pro", and won't stoop to your level.

You'll be hard pressed to find an advantage to not installing expansion material, other than laziness & a few cents per foot, or a true professional in the field that wouldn't suggest it's use.


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## stuart45

A method we often use when a path or patio is less than 6 inches below the Damp proof course is to lay a line of thin kerb stones about 6 inches away from the wall and take the concrete up to them. 
The other side next to the wall has gravel at a lower level than the DPC.


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## concretemasonry

I have never seen "EJM" (a lumped together group of various materials with different properties) in a professional specification for a project, but the specific acceptable acceptable materials are specified and the installation methods are called out for good reason.

Caulk or unknown elastomerics are just a goop and short term solutions that may work for a season or two until the effects or ineffectiveness of the plan and INTSALLATION is discovered TOO LATE. The wait for the crack, caulk and then the wait for the failure is a typical and costly approach in the end despite the cheap concept in the beginning.

You know there will be a crack, so plan on it and do a proper installation at the beginning. The same thing applies to the joint between the old patio and the new slab that was ignored.

Dick


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## slc200

*Concrete poured up to retaining wall*

Concretemasonry: you stated that proper installing is key, but didn't really say what that was. I am very curious. We want to do something similar. We are putting in an interlocking stone retaining wall then pouring a concrete pad up to it and I've had some tell me to just pour right up against it and others say use an expansion joint. Please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. 

Thanks!

Suzanne


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## stadry

let's all calm down a scosh :yes: neither aci nor any specifier would ask that conc be placed in contact w/any structure,,, heck, we even use exp jnt mtl between columns bases & conc floors,,, why ? because they're different & have different objectives :thumbsup:

as the conc cures ( hydrates ), it will shrink a bit & there'll be a little space 'tween the conc & exp jnt/structure,,, however, when the conc gets hot in the summer, it expands ( hy-skoul fiziks ),, in short, pay attn to cidk & jo IF you want the job done right :thumbup:

same w/the stone wall 'cept ' sill seal ' might be a better alternative as its more flexible,,, dick & jo would've said the same but they had to take their wife & kids out for father's day :laughing: ( ' proper installation ' includes an acceptable joint pattern )

ircSuzanne[/QUOTE]


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## Robpo

I would use expansion if the concrete was between the wall and an unmovable object so it has room to expand and contract. If the concrete has a foundation I would call that an unmovable object and put expansion joint. My 2₵.


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## Canarywood1

Like Dick said, the joint between the old and new slab needs expansion joint as doe's the brick wall.


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## jomama45

This is a couple year old post, but just so it's not too confusing, the "expansion" joint actually has a more important job in this scenario, as a bond breaker. If the concrete is poured directly against the rough brick face, it can "lock" into it and create damage when the slab-on-grade moves...........


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## Robpo

jomama45 said:


> This is a couple year old post, but just so it's not too confusing, the "expansion" joint actually has a more important job in this scenario, as a bond breaker. If the concrete is poured directly against the rough brick face, it can "lock" into it and create damage when the slab-on-grade moves...........


WE NEW THAT:no:


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## Tscarborough

Not only are you almost always wrong, but you can't spell for chit either, Robpo.

Anytime hard materials meet hard materials in a cold joint it needs to be a soft joint with dimensions that exceed maximum expected movement of both members. Asphalt impregnated sugar cane fiber is the most common and cheapest with characteristics that make it almost ideal for this application:

It is more or less waterproof, it is cheap, it lasts a long time, and is able to rebound from normal expansion and contraction to maintain the seal. For critical applications, you can apply a backer rod and joint sealant over the expansion joint.


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