# planting grass question...



## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

Would it hurt to till the land at a shallow depth after seeding, and then seed again after tilling?

my thought goes as follows.

Till as deep as possible.
Fertilize and seed the area.
Till as shallow as possible.
Seed the area again.

What do you suppose the result would be and do you think spreading straw is a neccesity?


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

Since there were no objectings...I'll be doing this on Saturday.

Please comment...either way.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Actually, I try to till relatively shallow before seeding any more, because, and this is simply my opinion, grass roots are only going so deep, the water is going to pass through the tilled soil much easier, to a depth beyond benefit for the new growth, and the more loose soil that you have on top, the more likely you are to have to reseeed the whole thing following a heavy down pour. I see absolutely no benefit to tilling after seeding, except to displace some, much, or all of the seed to a depth at which it will not germinate. Typically, I lightly till the affected area, run a steel rake through it to catch any significat root balls, stones, etc., spread the seed, as well as a dry starter fertilizer, VERY LIGHTLY rake it with a steel rake, in order to get soil coverage on as much of the seed as possible, but without moving the seed around too much, in order to maintain even coverage. Sometimes, rather than using a dry starter fertilizer, I have applied it with a hose end sprayer, but that's just a bit more effort, and I haven't seen much difference, so typically use the dry. As for straw, some people say no, but I generally use it. I feel that it helps hold the moisture in, and, being in contact with the ground, it begins to rot, which provides some natural fertilizer. Then, as you begin to mow the area, the straw chops up, lays between the blades of grass, and continues to feed the new growth. You just need to be sure to break it up as you pull it from the bale(s), so that it is not in clumps, which will prevent the seed from germinating, or smother it if it does (germinate). Just some opinions.


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

DexterII said:


> Actually, I try to till relatively shallow before seeding any more, because, and this is simply my opinion, grass roots are only going so deep, the water is going to pass through the tilled soil much easier, to a depth beyond benefit for the new growth, and the more loose soil that you have on top, the more likely you are to have to reseeed the whole thing following a heavy down pour. I see absolutely no benefit to tilling after seeding, except to displace some, much, or all of the seed to a depth at which it will not germinate. Typically, I lightly till the affected area, run a steel rake through it to catch any significat root balls, stones, etc., spread the seed, as well as a dry starter fertilizer, VERY LIGHTLY rake it with a steel rake, in order to get soil coverage on as much of the seed as possible, but without moving the seed around too much, in order to maintain even coverage. Sometimes, rather than using a dry starter fertilizer, I have applied it with a hose end sprayer, but that's just a bit more effort, and I haven't seen much difference, so typically use the dry. As for straw, some people say no, but I generally use it. I feel that it helps hold the moisture in, and, being in contact with the ground, it begins to rot, which provides some natural fertilizer. Then, as you begin to mow the area, the straw chops up, lays between the blades of grass, and continues to feed the new growth. You just need to be sure to break it up as you pull it from the bale(s), so that it is not in clumps, which will prevent the seed from germinating, or smother it if it does (germinate). Just some opinions.


Good stuff. Did you know the root of grass are as deep in the soil as the grass is tall???

How deep is too deep fo germination?

Either way I'll till heavy rake smooth and seed/fert.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

pjordan4477 said:


> Did you know the root of grass are as deep in the soil as the grass is tall???
> 
> How deep is too deep fo germination?
> 
> Either way I'll till heavy rake smooth and seed/fert.


Yes, I have heard and read that as the blades grow longer, the roots do as well. And, as an added note, this is the reason that I typically try to mow newly seeded areas a bit longer for the first season, in order to allow the roots to develop.

As to how deep, again, just an opinion, but when I am raking it, I shoot for something probably like about 1/2", so that it has what I consider adequate coverage, and, since I prefer to sow grass seed as early in the spring as possible, I feel that it will be as close to air temperature as possible, whereas it is often cooler, the deeper you go into the soil.


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

DexterII said:


> Yes, I have heard and read that as the blades grow longer, the roots do as well. And, as an added note, this is the reason that I typically try to mow newly seeded areas a bit longer for the first season, in order to allow the roots to develop.
> 
> As to how deep, again, just an opinion, but when I am raking it, I shoot for something probably like about 1/2", so that it has what I consider adequate coverage, and, since I prefer to sow grass seed as early in the spring as possible, I feel that it will be as close to air temperature as possible, whereas it is often cooler, the deeper you go into the soil.


 
Awesome, I think I have a good plan for this weekend.

Any suggestion on grass and fert? 

Here is a description of what I have:

In the sunny areas, I have zoisha.

I will be seeding in full shade, part shade, and full sun. I was thinking of getting a fescue for each, thoughts?


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

As for myself, no, I cannot help you in that regard. I typically buy seed at one of the feed mills that I frequent, and we live in a rural setting, so I use a general mix for ours, but when I am working elsewhere, for someone who has a particular type of grass, I typically cut out a small piece, put it in a Dixie cup, give it to someone at the mill, to match.


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

Fescue (pennington) it is.


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

I got it tilled, raked, dragged, seeded, and fertilized prior to the rain last night. Thank you mother nature for pitching in with the water.


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

pjordan4477 said:


> Fescue (pennington) it is.


Isn't coming in worth a crap. I wrote them and they said it needs to be above 50 degrees at all times and it may take 30 days.

I used this contractors special and it grew like wild fire in full shade.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

pjordan4477 said:


> Isn't coming in worth a crap. I wrote them and they said it needs to be above 50 degrees at all times and it may take 30 days.
> 
> I used this contractors special and it grew like wild fire in full shade.


Is it possible that you got it in too deep? 

That said, yeah the temperature and sunshine have EVERYTHING to do with grass seed germination!


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## KailaM (Apr 26, 2011)

Great. i guess, i'll try to make some improvement on our garden areas this weekend. :thumbsup:


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## pjordan4477 (Mar 15, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> Is it possible that you got it in too deep?
> 
> That said, yeah the temperature and sunshine have EVERYTHING to do with grass seed germination!


Nope I only seeded on top.

The Vigoro contractor seed is what is growing well. I e-mailed pennington again asking for a coupon for a product they thought would seed best in full sun...no reply yet.


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## root (Mar 31, 2011)

Vigoro Contractor Blend has Ryegrass in it i think. If that is true then you are probably seeing rye. I would use Rebel brand fescue seed. Which is owned by Pennington. But you should wait until Sept 1 to seed if you can. Grass planted in the spring usually can't handle the heat of summer.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Fescue has one of the longest germination periods of any turfgrass (14 days as I remember). Annual rygrass will sprout almost the second it hits moist soil (3-5 days but will only be with you for a season. The perennial rygrasses germinate quickly too (7-10) and are nice to add to fescues, bluegrasses and so forth. 

Needless to say, if you look closely at the "contractor" special blends they will be heavy in rye grasses and probably annual varieties.


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