# Is my approach to removing these medicine cabinets right? (pic)



## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay, our bathroom has these mirror/medicine cabinets that are recessed in the wall, above the sink/toilet.


The plan is to remove those, reinstall them on the opposite wall, and put a large mirror on the wall where the cabinets were originally (somehow ended up with a mirror whose dimensions fit damn near flush, both vert/horizontally!).

So, I think I'm all set with installing the big mirror, and won't be re-installing the medicine cabinets just yet, but I want to make sure I'm approaching the removal of these cabinets appropriately:

1) unscrew them and remove from wall
2) cut the wall so that I have 1 large rectangular hole, with studs at the end
3) cut plywood to fit the hole (plywood would be primed or waterproofed)
4) screw plywood into the studs
5) use spackling putty to seal the edges of the plywood
6) install mirror (which will cover that whole section)

Is this about right?


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## Sammy (Mar 11, 2007)

That will work but a couple of scrap peices of drywall and a little mud, you could have filled in the area without cutting the studs. And it would be semi finished if you decided later to take the mirror down.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Why don't you use sheetrock? Cut to size, tape and compound.
You can use plywood if you want. Just remove the plaster that's between the medicine cabinets now and put one large sheet of ply. You might have to put cleats at either end to use as nailers.
Ron


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Sammy said:


> That will work but a couple of scrap peices of drywall and a little mud, you could have filled in the area without cutting the studs. And it would be semi finished if you decided later to take the mirror down.


I was gonna use plywood because I *thought* I had some chunks that were the right size, but don't. Although maybe I'll just patch a few together to save a trip to home depot (I'm also realizing that I need them to be the same thickness as the current wall, which is unlikely, I think they're 3/4" plywood sheets).

If I get a sheet of dry wall, you say use the 'mud' - is 
"proform, all purpose joint compound" an acceptable type of mud? I for some reason have a bucket of that, and I have some spackling compound.

What do you mean by 'cutting the studs'? I wasn't going to cut anything, just remove the cabinets, cut out that little strip between them, then cut my (drywall or plywood) to fit the hole, and screw it into the exposed studs.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Ron6519 said:


> Why don't you use sheetrock? Cut to size, tape and compound.
> You can use plywood if you want. Just remove the plaster that's between the medicine cabinets now and put one large sheet of ply. You might have to put cleats at either end to use as nailers.
> Ron


May just get the sheetrock if the plywood is too thick, I just wanted to use extra materials, and save a trip to home depot. If I use sheetrock, what do you mean by tape? Wouldn't I just cut the sheetrock precisely, put in the hole, screw it in, and then compound? 

Also, you say that for using ply, I may need to put cleats on either end. I wiki'd it to see what you meant, and it seems like it's just to make something longer to fit - wouldn't that be unnecessary if my cuts were on point?


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

What is the total length and width of the opening? (both mirrors)

What is th size of the mirror (length and width)?


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

The opening (if cut precisely around both of the medicine cabinets) is 33" wide X 22" tall.

My mirror is 47" wide X 43" tall - I got this for free from someone who was moving and it just happens to fit damn near flush on that wall ******BUT, when I was taking those measurements a second ago, I figured I'd whip out my square - the wall/ceiling aren't square with each other!!!!!  The mirror is gonna be a pretty flush piece, which is just gonna accentuate how non-square the upper corner is!!


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## Sammy (Mar 11, 2007)

Joint compund would be the same as "mud" and be used to tape and fill the joints if you do it in drywall. 

Finish it off just like your repairing some damaged drywall.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

(sorry if I implied the mirror fit flush over the medicine cabinets, I meant that it fits flush on that wall - it's got like an inch of clearance on all sides from the walls, ceiling, sink, etc)


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## Dansbell (Jul 29, 2007)

If you want to use your plywood and are not concerned with what it looks like behind the mirror you could install cleats 1/4" back on each stud and cut two pieces of plywood to fill each hole and sit flush with the dry wall.

Personally just knowing I didn't fix the wall behind my mirror would bother me. It is really easy and not very expensive to throw a piece of dry wall up there.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm likely to just go the drywall route, I'm pretty sure my plywood's gonna be too thick anyways....


Could someone please clarify this whole 'cleating' thing to me? Or point me somewhere with info on it? Wiki didn't give me much of anything. I guess, based on my amateur DIY approach, that I think all I need to do is make sure my replacement piece, be it plywood or drywall, needs to fit damn near flush, and then i just spackle/tape/joint compound the tiny gap. I just am failing to see where cleating woudl come in, and what benefits it'd offer to this...


As I stated above, kinda sucks that the ceiling/wall intersection isn't a true square, I know since it's a horizontal mirror i'm gonna want to align it with the ceiling (it's largest edge), but dunno what to about the non-linear gap I'm gonna end up with on the side....


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

joeyboy,
By cleating Ron meant goes like this. When you take out the medicine cabinets the left and right edges of them are right up to the studs. Sheetrock is covering the studs so when you place a new piece of rock in the hole there will be no place to fasten the left and right edges to. Adding a cleat (a piece of 2x4) to the edge of the existing stud will give you that place to fasten to. Also you want to tape the joints so they don't crack later. All this is the normal way to patch sheet rock. As for the uneven ceiling/wall you might be able to add a piece of molding on the top to kind of conceal the line.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

OHHHHH okay I get cleating now. I guess I was planning to cut a little bit into the sheet rock past the cabinets, to screw into their studs, but that sounds quite a bit easier lol, so big thanks on that.



Now, about using the moulding, how would that make a difference? If the molding is there or not, the ceiling still raises upwards as it gets farther from the right wall (the upper right angle is >90).


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay, cleating is gonna be a lifesaver here lol! Thanks again, that'll make it so much easier!!

So I just removed the cabinets, and the strip of drywall (or sheetrock?) that was between them, and got a few new questions.

- for the cleats, should I just do 1 vertical cleat at each edge, or should I also do horizontal ones at the top bottom?

- the second picture shows the middle stud pieces used for holding the medicine cabinet in - the one to the left looks kinda crappy, should I remove it, or give it a water resistant coating or something?

- Just want to make sure I've got the right idea for the rest of the project:
-- get drywall/sheetrock that's the appropriate thickness, cut precisely
-- primer for the sheetrock 
-- put up my cleats (either verticals only, or verticals + horizontals)
-- Screw (or nail?) the sheetrock into place
-- spackle/mud the gaps around the edge of the sheetrock/drywall



Am I doing this about right?


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

(note - that red tape is covering this hole in the wall - it was covered with gray duct tape when I removed the cabinet, I removed the tape, saw it was a hole in teh wall, didn't see any major signs of rot/infestation or anything, so I just re-taped it very thoroughly)


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## Dansbell (Jul 29, 2007)

you might be amazed at how common it is to find walls, floors, and ceilings that are not plumb or level or square, especially in older buildings. This is so common in older buildings that it is often expected or at least accepted during a remodel. You may be the only one that ever notices depending on how bad it really is. 

You may want to re check your wall and ceiling with a level. Often corners have excess drywall mud in them making them appear worse than they are with a square. You could also stretch a string or straight edge from corner to corner to see how straight the ceiling is. 

Moulding and trim can often work magic. From the sound of it your mirror is close to the wall on each side and the top is close to the ceiling. If you over lap the mirror with a piece of moulding and push it tight to the ceiling, You are less likely to notice that the moulding is not level than you would if you have a gap between the mirror and the ceiling that starts out narrow and gets larger on one side. You could also frame the mirror with trim on 3 or 4 sides. I would not set the mirror parallel with the ceiling if it is not level. You could have the top or side of the mirror cut to match the wall or ceiling. It is usually not very expensive to take have your local glass shop trim it for you.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Dude you were right about the corner being a bad way to check for square, it wasn't off nearly as much as it appeared to be!! The ceiling is almost perfectly level, the wall bows a little, but not bad.


Well, I got the wall setup, gonna do final sanding tomorrow. Came out pretty ghetto (see pics :laughing: ), as the drywall I got was slightly thinner than the rest of the wall. I tried bridging the gap the best I could, but it's my first time using dry wall mud stuff so it came out pretty 'amateur' lol. I would've done more to make it better if it wasn't going to be 100% covered behind a mirror.

- installed vertical cleats at each end of the opening
- cut the sheet rock, primed
- drilled into the cleats and the middle supports
- mud
- tape
- mud
- wet sand


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Not even gonna bother putting up the mirror tonight, I always try to refrain from doing 'finishing' things at the end of the day.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

Use cleats on all four sides. The existing studs look fine. Just remove the nail. Scape off the excess crap around the edge before you tape. Make it nice and smooth.
As for the molding. If your mirror is close to the ceiling which I think you mentied the molding going over the mirror will hide the off level ceiling a little.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

MinConst said:


> Use cleats on all four sides. The existing studs look fine. Just remove the nail. Scape off the excess crap around the edge before you tape. Make it nice and smooth.
> As for the molding. If your mirror is close to the ceiling which I think you mentied the molding going over the mirror will hide the off level ceiling a little.


Ya I got the nail out, scraped/razored the excess, mudded, taped, mudded.

Also, it's the wall that's not level, the ceiling is quite true.





Got a little question - I did the mud last night, maybe 6ish. Since then, the bathroom's had a fan sealed in teh window pulling air out, a fan blasting the patched wall, and another fan just for more air motion - and it still stinks. 

I don't want to put the mirror up until its scent's gone, right? I'm imagining that if I do put it up, it's just gonna slow the dry time exponentially... I guess I would've just expected it to smell normal now, given that it's a vacuumed wind tunnel aimed outside, but it's 24 hours later and still stinks..


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## Dansbell (Jul 29, 2007)

You do need to make sure it is dry before you put up the mirror. The last thing you want is mold to grow back there. Do you live in a humid area. That will slow down the dry time. You May find it will dry faster if you point a fan right at it. All Purpose joint compound can take more time to dry if you have some thick spots. I like to use 20 minute mud that you mix yourself when I am doing repairs like this. That is a piece of information that I supose is a little to late.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

Was your mud fresh? You might find a 2 day drying time on first coat. Give it time. It will be pure white when dry. Don't forget t sand it smooth before you go further. I would also prime and paint the area before putting the mirror up. Mud will absorb moisture if not sealed and painted causing mold to form under the mirror. Applying mud takes practice. Good for you to give it a try.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

Dansbell said:


> You do need to make sure it is dry before you put up the mirror. The last thing you want is mold to grow back there. Do you live in a humid area. That will slow down the dry time. You May find it will dry faster if you point a fan right at it. All Purpose joint compound can take more time to dry if you have some thick spots. I like to use 20 minute mud that you mix yourself when I am doing repairs like this. That is a piece of information that I supose is a little to late.


Yeah as soon as I started using it, i thought there must've been a version that was fast dry. Too late now though! I could've went back to hd to check, but no biggie.

The smell was seriously lower/almost gone this morning, and yeah there's been fans blowing right on it (and at the window creating suction/vacuum to pull the smell outdoors).


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

MinConst said:


> Was your mud fresh? You might find a 2 day drying time on first coat. Give it time. It will be pure white when dry. Don't forget t sand it smooth before you go further. I would also prime and paint the area before putting the mirror up. Mud will absorb moisture if not sealed and painted causing mold to form under the mirror. Applying mud takes practice. Good for you to give it a try.


Very good to know!! Had no idea I needed to prime again, hopefully the mud says that on teh instructions, otherwise if you didn't say that I would've been in trouble!

1 coat of kilz primer (quick dry stuff) sufficient?


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

I use a PVA primer. It's made for sheetrock. Cheaper than Kilz and does the job. They have it at the box stores.


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## joeyboy (Apr 10, 2007)

MinConst said:


> I use a PVA primer. It's made for sheetrock. Cheaper than Kilz and does the job. They have it at the box stores.


i used some oil based kilz. Didn't even realize it was oil based til I got home lol.

I applied 2 coats of it today, bathroom still smells of the stuff (unsure if it's the primer or the mud, not that it matters much).

Hopefully the mirror will go up tomorrow, if the smell's gone I'll install it :thumbup: 


(if anyone's got tips for installing a rather large bathroom mirror, I'd love to hear them! My intended approach is lining it up, marking my holes, anchoring into the studs, probably just use 4 anchors/screws/mirror holders, and use those rubber-esque pads that keep the mirror cushioned from its mounting brackets/hooks)


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