# Replace or sister saging garage joists



## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

My garage joists are saging, and have cracks in them that span from 1/2 to 3/4 through the 2 x 6's. The length of the joists is 22ft. The joists run parallel to a vehicle when it is parked inside. The width of the garage is 25ft. Please help me find the best way to fix this problem. Some folks have suggested engineered wood in a I beam configuration but at the end at the base of the roof, I would have to cut the I beam on an angle to follow the roof and that seems like it is defeating the purpose of having the I beam. Some have suggested sistering the whole beam with another 2 x 6 and either screwing or bolting the joists together. Please help.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

A picture would be nice.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Install an LVL (laminated veneer lumber) under the existing ceiling joists at the 25' span, with 4-1/2" of bearing at each end. 1-3/4"x 9-1/2" will carry 5900++#'s. You have 22' minus 1/2 = 11' x 25' x 10#live load and 10#dead load = 5500#. (and no center post) http://www.parr.com/PDFs/LP LVL 1.9E.pdf Check with your local code enforcement official, they may require stronger than 20# per ft.

Be safe, Gary


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

GBR's solution is probably the easiest way to go and extremely effective. The only drawback is that possible impact of headroom loss from the beam (for example - possible interference with garage door opener). If the ceiling is high enough then that's not an issue. If it is an issue the beam could be placed within the ceiling with the existing joists cut off at the beam and hung with joist hangers - but that is a lot more difficult. The beam could also be placed above the joists and the joists "hung" from the beam with straps but again a lot more difficult. In most cases the beam below the joists as GBR suggests is your best bet.


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## Cole (Mar 12, 2005)

22' 2x6's in a garage?????


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Billup said:


> Some have suggested sistering the whole beam with another 2 x 6 and either screwing or bolting the joists together.


Yes. Even low strength 2x6s [E = 800,000 PSI] may solve the problem and you don't need calculations. Try a few first, measure the sag before and after.


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

I'll get some pics tomorrow.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Cole said:


> 22' 2x6's in a garage?????


 

My thought exactly, that’s part of the reason why I’d like to see a pic.


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, 2 x 6's over a span of 22ft, I've been told the wood is #3 wood with large knots and that is mostly where they cracked. My first thought was to sister more 2 x 6's of #1 or #2 wood and either bolt or screw them together. Is there any type of 2 x 6" engineered wood that would work better? The large veneer beam mentioned above is probably very heavy and I'm doing this job solo.


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## meboatermike (Oct 29, 2009)

I believe the beam mentioned above according to the tables attached above weighs 4.8 lbs per foot -- even I, a middle aged weakling :whistling2: would consider this doable.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

meboatermike said:


> I believe the beam mentioned above according to the tables attached above weighs 4.8 lbs per foot -- even I, a middle aged weakling :whistling2: would consider this doable.


I get ~44# for this plank, using 35#/ft³ for the wood density. The OP may want to use a rope & pulley. ERs are really costly nowadays.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Billup said:


> Yes, 2 x 6's over a span of 22ft, I've been told the wood is #3 wood with large knots and that is mostly where they cracked. My first thought was to sister more 2 x 6's of #1 or #2 wood and either bolt or screw them together. Is there any type of 2 x 6" engineered wood that would work better? The large veneer beam mentioned above is probably very heavy and I'm doing this job solo.


I installed (3) 16" LVL's in my garage for support -great room above & roof.
They weighed under 200 lbs each
The 9" LVL would weigh a lot less - almost 1/2
And is a great solution


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

Location profile updated. Thanks


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

With the beam support at 1/2, or 11' - this would clear any opener and back-hang track of a 9' high door. The #3 wood ceiling joists should not have been used there, only very short spans or firewood. The engineered wood is great but you cannot cut the angle past the inside of the wall. (Roof slope). IRC requires 2x6 at 24"o.c. - 10'6" span. 2x8 = 13'3" 2x10 = 16'3" Doubling may work if the local Inspector OK's it for liability, so no one comes to your next house with a lawsuit from your previous work..... 

I presume they are 24"o.c.? If drywalling, need 5/8" at 24"o.c. joists.

What is the headroom, under joists to slab? 

Be safe, Gary


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

The joists are 9ft from the slab. I don't know what o.c. stands for since I'm am a true newby in wood construction measurements. So what you're saying is that I can't use lvl since I won't be able to cut it for the roof slope? One friend of mine suggested lowering the wall and putting "I" beam lvls to support it but I'm not keen on that since some folks tell me that to lower the wall I would just be putting 2 x 4's nailed to the wall and resting the "I" beam on them instead of the support wall. So, can I just put #1 wood up against the existing #3 and bolt or screw them together the full length of the joist?


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

What is the secret to posting pics on this chat?


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

Here are some pics of my garage. If the pics you need aren't there, then tell me what area you need and I'll take a picture of it. thanks


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Billup said:


> What is the secret to posting pics on this chat?


Here's a How to
http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-post-pictures-50857/

Basically I host my pics on Photobucket & copy their link
So how to post depends upon where the pics are located
You can also attach a picture to a post


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## Billup (Apr 14, 2010)

Check my pics on page two of the last message. Thanks


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Basically I'd run LVL support perpindicular to the 2x's at the mid point
That I think is what Gary said also
So determine where that would be on each wall & let us know (pics) if there is anything on either wall that would prevent that


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Those pictures are scary! I would remove the plywood and any load from above, right away. One AC wire is being pinch from the plywood above. The garage car door back-hang track is loading 50-100# on the individual ceiling joist it is hung from. I'm surprised it hasn't failed yet. To add #1 sisters next to each would require jacking the old (nearly impossible) joists and sistering. Easier would be the beam below, lifting 3/4 at a time (86#), alone . Lift one end onto a sawhorse, then ladder, then beam pocket, other end similar but onto movable double trimmer studs. OR, you could build your own beam with 2x4's and plywood, 25', 60# per ft.load, weighs 6# per foot: called "Nailed Structural Use Panel & lumber beams- Z-416, free pdf: http://www.apawood.org/level_c.cfm?content=pub_ply_libmain

Be safe, Gary


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## jklingel (Dec 21, 2008)

*beam support*

Curious. What are you folks recommending he do for supporting the ends of this new beam? Sooner or later, it sounds like someone needs to address what is holding the beam up, and what is holding up what is holding the beam; posts and foundation below them. Or, did I miss something?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Whoops! My first two posts I said check with your B.D., forgot on this one, sorry. 
He hasn't decided to sister or not, beam or not, or home-made trusses, with the approval of the Inspector for the correct wood rating, fasteners, loads, etc.: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...I0xqQV&sig=AHIEtbQizl3G-LWeTUt-6fTirapfPwoKzA
I though we were in the idea mode, discussing options before posts, footings, sistering bolting, lateral rotation (blocking), etc., good point to keep in mind for later, though.

Be safe, Gary


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## rlfranklin2 (May 21, 2014)

Dear Bill, a 25 foot span requires a minimum of 2 x 10 x X to support the structural load. Moreover, you didn't mention what the pattern is above the 2x6 that helps (forms a W" like pattern), note this helps support point load across the roof span. You will need to use bolts thru the wood to sister the joists, using nails or screws is usually not allowed in most build codes, plus don't forget the Simpson's fastners to tie into blocking at ends and where you connect to roof joists, you may use construction adhesive between exist and new joists. In addition, you will definitely want to check with a structural engineer and you're local building department on what should be the "minimum" you're going to need to do.
If it was me, I'd double check to see cost differences between LVL and no.1 structural grade wood to use. A structural engineer will be able to help tremendously on what is required and will certify install and products used. 
Presently, I'm going to similar fashion but I have to sister in to existing 2x4x22 that were used in the 1920's, with no webbing support above, so I'm adding in the two by tens and 2x8 for webbing pick up the load differential across the spanin my case of only 22 feet. My problem, and you might have a similar one, is trying to get 22 feet or your case 24 or 25 feet of board into and resting the required 6" beyond walls... it's not the easiest thing to do, and I may need to cut out the rafters to get the right joists into place and then double up joists prior to putting them back.
I hope this helps, good luck


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I would pay special attention to this photo....


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