# The 40 sq.ft Bathroom Remodel...



## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

After countless projects completed on this house over the past three years we've owned it, I decided since this is one of the last major projects (we plan to sell in a few years), I would document the build here. Of course, I'll also use it for suggestions/tips as well :thumbsup:

As the title insinuates, this bathroom is SMALL. In fact, all three bathrooms in this place are small. Sucks for practicality purposes, but it's a positive when remodeling (less money...hopefully).

Here's what I'm working with (thanks to my 10-22mm for these shots as every other standard focal length can't capture the room seeing as small as it is):



















The plan is to gut the room to the studs, keep the existing toilet, and run from there.

-New Green Back Drywall
-Add Recessed Light(s) Over Shower and Over Vanity
-Add spot/track lighting flanking vanity
-Build Custom Mirror
-Replace Shower/Bathtub with 

-New flooring (have no idea yet, but not doing tile)
-Replace Outlet with GFCI
-New Shower Head
-New Vanity/Sink
I will build recessed cabinets into the opposing 8' walls, one that will run almost floor to ceiling, and another that is a standard between the stud fit above the toilet where that rack is. 

Should about cover most of it for now. I will most likely start gutting after the new year and document the progress on here. Wish me luck!


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Sounds like a fun project!


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Thanks, Mike, aren't they always?

First question, since I already know it is coming, and I've heard suggestions about this particular topic.

For the flange on the shower/tub surround. Is it better to notch the studs to accept the flange, or just use shims on the studs to bring the drywall down flush? If I do the latter, won't I need to shim all of the studs in theory, otherwise I will have a ridge or ripple where the first non-shimmed piece meets the shimmed pieces, correct?


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## mterry (Oct 17, 2012)

mgh-pa said:


> Thanks, Mike, aren't they always?
> 
> First question, since I already know it is coming, and I've heard suggestions about this particular topic.
> 
> For the flange on the shower/tub surround. Is it better to notch the studs to accept the flange, or just use shims on the studs to bring the drywall down flush? If I do the latter, won't I need to shim all of the studs in theory, otherwise I will have a ridge or ripple where the first non-shimmed piece meets the shimmed pieces, correct?


What are you replacing around the tub? Tile? Or prefab surround? Because if you're using tile, you shouldn't use drywall behind, not even greenboard, you need concrete board with a waterproofing membrane, either paint-on (like redguard) or an embedded membrane like Kerdi. If you're doing a surround it should be fine


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

mterry said:


> What are you replacing around the tub? Tile? Or prefab surround? Because if you're using tile, you shouldn't use drywall behind, not even greenboard, you need concrete board with a waterproofing membrane, either paint-on (like redguard) or an embedded membrane like Kerdi. If you're doing a surround it should be fine


Nope, just a standard surround (Sterling tub and surround). Is it recommended as a piece of mind to add a vapor barrier behind the surround like you would before laying in cement board for tile, or is it acceptable (as I know most installs do this) to just place the unit flush against the studs?

Second question came to mind from a little research as well. Is it recommended to place the tub in a base of mortar for leveling/squeak proofing?


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## mterry (Oct 17, 2012)

mgh-pa said:


> Nope, just a standard surround (Sterling tub and surround). Is it recommended as a piece of mind to add a vapor barrier behind the surround like you would before laying in cement board for tile, or is it acceptable (as I know most installs do this) to just place the unit flush against the studs?
> 
> Second question came to mind from a little research as well. Is it recommended to place the tub in a base of mortar for leveling/squeak proofing?


As long as the surround is properly assembled and seams caulked, it should itself be waterproof, so another waterproof membrane behind sounds like much more trouble than it's worth.
If the tub is cast iron, I wouldn't think a mortar base necessary, but if acrylic I certainly would, simply because acrylic flexes where cast won't, and a mortar bed will make your tub much more secure


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Thanks.

What about the flanges on the surround and tub? Is it better to notch the stud to accept the flange so the drywall meets flush, or to shim the stud? If the latter, do you need to shim ALL of the studs to prevent a ripple/wave where the un-shimmed piece of drywall meets the shimmed?


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## Adrenalinejunky (Dec 23, 2012)

Start your project yet? I've a similar project I plan to do down the road....


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

I haven't yet. I ordered the tub/surround last week, but don't expect delivery until the end of the month. Picked up my flooring and supplies for the flooring as well as the vanity. Need to order light fixtures and faucet sets. I plan to start demo most likely this weekend. I'll be sure to update the thread with pictures as the progress unfolds.


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

mgh-pa said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What about the flanges on the surround and tub? Is it better to notch the stud to accept the flange so the drywall meets flush, or to shim the stud? If the latter, do you need to shim ALL of the studs to prevent a ripple/wave where the un-shimmed piece of drywall meets the shimmed?


You might wait until you get the surround. The instructions provided may answer some of your questions (or change your plans).


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Blondesense said:


> You might wait until you get the surround. The instructions provided may answer some of your questions (or change your plans).


Wait to do what? Gut or decide on shimming? I figured I would gut it down, frame in the openings for the recessed cabinets, and get everything cleaned up and ready for the tub install. The room needs to be gutted to the studs regardless of what the instructions call for.


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Alright, finally some progress pictures. I started demo on Monday (had the day off), and finished a few odds and ends with it yesterday evening). I got everything out relatively painlessly, but it is really cramped working in this space. Couple this with the fact that I'm trying VERY hard to not make a mess elsewhere in the house when moving things out of the bathroom (tub pieces, flooring, drywall, etc., the process went a little slower than normal).

So, what did I find? Well, for one, it appears that I only have R11 with a random pieces of R19 thrown in sporadically in the ceiling (just a crawl space above, not a full attic).










The exhaust fan is NOT routed into anything. It was blowing right into the batting. It's not pictured, but I had to remove this entire width of insulation as it was ruined.










I had a MASSIVE draft after removing this, so we put up a temporary piece of foil back to stop most of it from infiltrating through the house.

Here's a shot of the room gutted:










The flooring was sticky back vinyl on top of sheet linoleum. The linoleum didn't come up well, and I'm contemplating just replacing the flooring all together since there are spots where the flooring is compromised from a leak at one point (particularly around the toilet area as you can see in the picture above). Thoughts?

Shower head plumbing isn't even fastened:










I'm going to need to re-frame the supply line area since it's not enough support for a vinyl shower wall. I'm also planning replacing the copper and bringing in PEX from the floor line up too all the supplies.

If you also notice in a few pictures above, there's another shower exposed from our master bath. The plumbing to this and everything on this floor was completely covered and inaccessible. Thank goodness we haven't had a leak since we moved, otherwise, I would have had to tear everything apart to get to it. I plan on framing in at least one access panel, and plumbing in new shutoffs.

I also encountered this weird setup:




















There was about a 10" air space between the original bathroom wall and the kitchen wall (split level...the kitchen is not on the same plane as this floor), but there's THREE sections of drywall. I was hoping I would be able to widen the room some, but as you can see, they used this space to route the supply lines and the sink drains. Really weird.

That's where I am as of now. Still a lot to decide on yet. Need to figure out what to do with the flooring, and make a decision about venting the bathroom.


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Ok, not sure why I did this to myself, but I stumbled upon a few sources concerning this flooring. My house was built in 1979. I BELIEVE this is the original flooring. It is rolled sheet vinyl (or linoleum...not sure how to tell the difference), and it's come to my attention that the adhesives and sometimes the backings contain asbestos. Now, I've been wearing a full respirator when doing this job, and I haven't sanded or scraped much of the adhesive. So far, I've just full the pieces off that I can (after scoring the edges with a knife). Should I stop for now and have a sample taken?


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## Adrenalinejunky (Dec 23, 2012)

You've been busy! I can also relate to attempting to keep the rest of the house clean while doing work in other areas, thats a real pain! Im green when it comes to plumbing, why are you replacing the copper with pex? In my bathroom I also may have abestos in the floor, but other than paying a specialists what options are there when addressing it?


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## Andiy (Jan 13, 2013)

wow. It always amazes to see the shortcuts that people intentionally make when building. I'm in the middle of a bathroom rehab too, and although home construction 100 years ago seems to have been held to a higher standard, they still made some strange shortcuts. And of course, there are the results of all the weekend warrior rehabs along the way... :huh:


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Adrenalinejunky said:


> You've been busy! I can also relate to attempting to keep the rest of the house clean while doing work in other areas, thats a real pain! Im green when it comes to plumbing, why are you replacing the copper with pex? In my bathroom I also may have abestos in the floor, but other than paying a specialists what options are there when addressing it?


There's a lot of bends, T's, and elbows in these lines, coupled with the fact that we have hard water, it's just asking for places for water to leak. One clean run of pex eliminates (or severely lessens) that risk, especially in areas like this with limited access.

As for options with the asbestos, this is my first rodeo with it, so I'm doing as much research as I can as fast as I can. Everybody seems to have their own opinion/interpretation as to how to deal with it.


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## Donning (Jan 1, 2012)

I wish you well I finished up a project very simular to your and just about the same size slightly larger as i progressed through the project i ran into the following issues or concerns and this is how I addressed them.

hard Water - I noticed from your sink you have hard water. I did install an iron filter in front of my water softener this helped considerably in reducing the risk of rust. I also chose materials in the same color hue as rust stains because no matter how hard I try rust will always be an issue I learned this after my thirty years here but i have mitigated it a lot!

Like your bath I have my toilet sink and shower very close. I chose to replace my toilet with a dual flush Kohler that has a flush design from front to back making cleaning a snap. My wife no longer has to reach in and try to clean the back side and curves of the of the fixture making for a very happy wife resulting in a even happier hubby!

We had tile, I like tile but its cold unless you install heat. I chose a sheet vinyl went in like a dream is waterproof and warm on the feet was a great choice for us. 

Did tile all the walls was very happy with that and cleans up well. 

All in all project went well, I hope you all the success with yours looks like your well on your way.


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

just a thought for you, when doing your pex you can use shark bite adapters they simply push onto both copper and pex piping. Makes install a snap. I would also suggest installing insulation in your walls as it makes for a much quieter room, can't hear someone taking a pee.


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Just an update on where I'm at (little slow at the moment).

We reinforced the floor, cut away around the toilet drain (rotted), and replaced and then put down underlayment:










Did a little rewiring to get everything to my liking. Added two recessed lights (will have shower trim) above where the shower/tub will be, and decided to add another switch to control them independently from the vanity light.










Replaced the old standard outlet with a GFCI (also on a GFCI breaker) and replaced the two gang box and standard toggles with a three gang and rockers:










Decided to make the shutoff access for this bathroom and the master bath (there was no shutoff for this bathroom in case of an emergency leak) down below the floor level above the pressure tank. Sharkbites worked out nicely here:











All of the lines are run for the sink, toilet, and shower:



















Have the floor cleaned and ready for the primer (tonight). Installed a new exhaust fan, and need to plumb that to the outside. Hope to button things up insulation wise and get the tub in by the weekend (I think the wife is tired of it sitting in our kitchen).


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

All finished. Pretty happy with how it turned out. I'll pick up with where I left off:



Flooring installed (groutable vinyl...happy with it):











Surround and tub installed:











One recessed cabinet framed in:










Drywall and painted:











Building the cabinet doors and mirrors:






















Finished product:


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## mgh-pa (May 25, 2011)

Cabinet behind the main door:










Tub and lighting:










Shot of the mirror and new vanity lights:










All in all, pretty happy with it. Wife gets the credit for the colors and design


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

Great job. Yes the wife got the colours right but...... YOU made it all happen with sweat and hard work. Congrats, you should be proud.


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## mpellerin (Feb 15, 2011)

Looks fantastic! My son and I did completely gutted and re-built his similarly sized bathroom last summer, and it was TOUGH working in such a small space. It is uncanny how close the colors he chose are to yours (your wife's), but your fixtures are more upscale. Beautiful.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Came out real nice. :thumbup:


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

Nice Job!!

Although, I wouldn't be sure if I was shaving or getting ready to land a helicopter with that faucet!


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