# Fermenting



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Gal in my office makes a wicked good Kombucha tea.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I had a neighbour that would core 20 heads of cabbage and seal them in a barrow of water to sour them . For his cabbage rolls which were really good. Interesting when he dumped that water down the driveway.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Fermented cabbage water. Mm, oh yeah, I bet that smelled, um, delicious.

Yeah, they used to do those old fashioned pickles at the general store in big barrels. Well, I don't think they're pickled at all, any vinegar might even prevent proper fermentation, I don't know. They were brined and left to ferment.

It's been a while since I watched any vids on the subject, but I think you have to be careful of harmful molds getting in, while at the same time having some way for gases to escape so it don't esplode from the pressure.

Besides the health benefits, it seems like it would be fun to take some cabbage, onions, sweet and hot peppers, salt, maybe some spices, throw it all in there and let it burble and get good & ripe. Go full tilt health nut and put it on top of sausage in a bun. :biggrin2:

Probiotics, I do eat Greek yogurt on occasion, drink Kefir, but I bet they don't hold a candle to the fermented stuff.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Wait, barrel, or barrow? As in wheel barrow?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

ZEW496 said:


> Wait, barrel, or barrow? As in wheel barrow?


Barrel, thanks. One of those big food grade plastic ones that the dairy farmers get.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Ah, that sounds cool. I wonder if you could put a balloon over the pour hole(if it has one) to relieve pressure during fermentation?

Hey! Maybe some kind of container could be rigged with a sink trap, the water in the trap allowing pressure relief but also a seal to not allow mold spores and such to enter? I'm not sure what kind of container, and all piping and seals would have to be "food grade" and not breakdown from any contact with a salt brine.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

ZEW496 said:


> Ah, that sounds cool. I wonder if you could put a balloon over the pour hole(if it has one) to relieve pressure during fermentation?
> 
> Hey! Maybe some kind of container could be rigged with a sink trap, the water in the trap allowing pressure relief but also a seal to not allow mold spores and such to enter? I'm not sure what kind of container, and all piping and seals would have to be "food grade" and not breakdown from any contact with a salt brine.


All you need for that is a hose out of the top with the other end in a bucket of water so it can burp.


----------



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Funny you should mention that. I have some fermented yogurt & some fermented fresh spinach. Both by mistake. It's been 105 here. I was going to throw them out but can send them to you. . .

Actually, don't listen to Nealtw. You need to keep the good growing organisms separate from bad ones whether you are brewing beer with yeast, bacteria in yogurt, sauerkraut, etc. Unwanted organisms will interfere with the good ones. Tools & pots should be sterile to begin.

We made beer when we lived in Dana Point by the ocean. It was a lot of fun & the beer was good. Brewed under the kitchen sink. 

My brother-in-law in Kona, Hawaii wasn't as successful. It was too hot & he would have had to have it refrigerated at a milder temp. It grew mold. Energy is expensive there so they gave up.

I thought Two Knots had a sauerkraut recipie here but don't remember if it was made from scratch.

You could start with making yogurt from your Greek yogurt to get the sterile technique down.

I adore Kimchi but ate it once, made by a Navy Lt's Korean girlfriend. I ended up literally on the floor in agonizing stomach pain. Probably the chiles.:vs_whistle:


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Nealtw said:


> All you need for that is a hose out of the top with the other end in a bucket of water so it can burp.


But that would be too easy! Seriously though. I'm pretty sure temp control could be at least somewhat important, so doing it in the hot garage might not be a good idea. So it needs to be at least not totally makeshift and ugly, tucked away in a corner, maybe in the laundry room. Whatever I went with i'd have to clear it with the boss first, I doubt she'd go for multiple buckets and hose between 'em.

Nik: Watching on the net, yogurt is surprisingly easy to make. Milk brought to 180f(?), add a nice spoon full of greek yogurt("the mother"), keep it up to a certain temp overnight in a cooler(or some just wrapped it in towels), then refrigerate. Only problem is the quantity size, you almost have to have a separate fridge to store it all.

Come to thnk about it, there is a little cubby under the stairs. Something like this might work. I wonder if fermenting puts off a lot of odor?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

ZEW496 said:


> But that would be too easy! Seriously though. I'm pretty sure temp control could be at least somewhat important, so doing it in the hot garage might not be a good idea. So it needs to be at least not totally makeshift and ugly, tucked away in a corner, maybe in the laundry room. Whatever I went with i'd have to clear it with the boss first, I doubt she'd go for multiple buckets and hose between 'em.
> 
> Nik: Watching on the net, yogurt is surprisingly easy to make. Milk brought to 180f(?), add a nice spoon full of greek yogurt("the mother"), keep it up to a certain temp overnight in a cooler(or some just wrapped it in towels), then refrigerate. Only problem is the quantity size, you almost have to have a separate fridge to store it all.
> 
> Come to thnk about it, there is a little cubby under the stairs. Something like this might work. I wonder if fermenting puts off a lot of odor?


I don't know enough to talk about more than I have seen other do.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Nealtw said:


> I don't know enough to talk about more than I have seen other do.


Not a problem, I appreciate your input.


----------



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

ZEW496 said:


> But that would be too easy! Seriously though. I'm pretty sure temp control could be at least somewhat important, so doing it in the hot garage might not be a good idea. So it needs to be at least not totally makeshift and ugly, tucked away in a corner, maybe in the laundry room. Whatever I went with i'd have to clear it with the boss first, I doubt she'd go for multiple buckets and hose between 'em.
> 
> Nik: Watching on the net, yogurt is surprisingly easy to make. Milk brought to 180f(?), add a nice spoon full of greek yogurt("the mother"), keep it up to a certain temp overnight in a cooler(or some just wrapped it in towels), then refrigerate. Only problem is the quantity size, you almost have to have a separate fridge to store it all.
> 
> Come to thnk about it, there is a little cubby under the stairs. Something like this might work. I wonder if fermenting puts off a lot of odor?


But, I hope you noticed that you don't add it to the hot 180 degree milk? You let it cool, first & keep it between 110-115 :wink2:

There's a casual recipe on here. Too casual for some. It works for me at 110 or 73. I last used Activia but it tasted like the sugar substitute one had ended up in the wrong Activia, mine. It worked just so so. I have good success with Mountain High & Chobani. Pretty much all others with live cultures have worked well.

I like warm, new yogurt especially. Kind of like kefir.
The Persians have a yogurt with carbonated water added.

Since it doesn't have preservatives, it continues to make lactic acid & sours over time. You wouldn't want to make too much. It's so easy, after I stir in the yogurt, I often forget about it & find finished yogurt a few hours later.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

I can't remember it's been a while since I last gave it a look. To make your own yogurt from the recipe you end up with several quarts of yogurt. I mean, yogurt is pretty good, with fruit or whatever, but that's a lot of dang yogurt.

My brother all of a sudden started having a lot of skin problems, psoriasis. Just all of a sudden, mid to late 50's, out of the blue. I'd been interested in probiotics, i've had stomach problems throughout the years, and he trying to grasp onto anything that could help himself had read about healthy gut flora and how it can benefit our overall health. So here we are. He's not exactly a DIY guy, I am but tend to drag my feet. He is eating more fresh raw food, and has incorporated yogurt into his diet. I'm on the net _talking_ about, this....one of these days ima gonna. :biggrin2:

In my own defense, I do imbibe from time to time in fermented, ahem, spirits. It's not totally uncommon when I cook for everyone and the wife semi scoldingly asks, "Aren't you going to eat?"...the response, "Beer is food." And it is true, why would I say it if it were not so? :smile:


----------



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

ZEW496 said:


> I can't remember it's been a while since I last gave it a look. To make your own yogurt from the recipe you end up with several quarts of yogurt. I mean, yogurt is pretty good, with fruit or whatever, but that's a lot of dang yogurt.


Make less.:smile:


----------



## mitchleeanderso (Jul 23, 2018)

I put up sauerkraut periodically. All you need are some big wide mouth mason jars, your cabbage and any other veggies you might want to put in with them, some salt, and a little water.

Chop up the cabbage etc. as fine or as coarse as you desire. Put some in a jar and then pack it down tight with something like the pestle part of a mortar and pestle. I use the plastic rod that came with our vitamix blender. The idea is to get rid of as much air as possible.

I usually do two heads of cabbage and have 1/4 cup salt.  Each time I pack the veggies down, I sprinkle a little salt on top. Then just repeat the above until the jars are full and tightly packed.

Fill the jars with water, put on the lids, and set aside. It takes a week or so for the fermentation to work, but the flavor develops over time as the ferment continues. Some refrigerate; I don't. My wife doesn't like the smell when I open a jar. Admittedly, it's pretty strong.

Some accessories that help are glass weights to put on top of the cabbage. This ensures that the veggies stay below the surface of the water and away from air. You should also get some fermentation lids for your jars. These act like check valves to allow built up gas from the fermentation to escape, but keeps air out. Both of these are available on Amazon.

Google Cultures for Health. They have a website with all sorts of info and products related to fermentation.


----------



## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

So you use the fermentation lids?

I suppose cleaning everything is very important and if done correctly there _shouldn't_ be a problem. It's been a while, but i've seen where a guck or scum can develop on the top during the normal fermentation process, and/or worse possibly even mold. Even the guck scum can look kind of questionable for consumption. Does that ever concern you...whether it's just normal guck scum, or something else that might be harmful, even the beginnings of mold?

I watched some vids of a small commercial fermentation operation some time ago. They actually had _a mother_, a gelatinous blob they would take from old and add to fresh batches for fermentation. Honestly, it looked pretty disgusting. But I guess it is what it is...just as long it is what it ain't, something you'd best not eat.


----------



## mitchleeanderso (Jul 23, 2018)

I haven't always used the lids. I used to use the regular jar lids, but not real tight, so when the pressure builds it still has some escape. This results in some messy spews, since some liquid usually exits as well.

As the level of kraut goes down in the jar, there is naturally more oxygen in the jar, so it encourages the less desirable bacteria. Sometimes a little fuzziness shows up on a piece of cabbage stuck to the inside of the jar. I just try to scoop it out of there and pitch it. It hasn't hurt me yet. If the yuck stuff starts in the main part of the kraut, then it's time to chuck that jar.

Putting it in the fridge after the fermentation has mostly completed would probably discourage this sort of thing.

I've thought that if you could pump some of the air out of the jar like they do with wine bottles, it might be helpful as well. I haven't pursued this.

I start with everything clean, but I don't take any extreme measures. Just normal dishwasher detergent or dish washing soap.


----------



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

I found a good definition - "Anaerobic respiration, also called fermentation, occurs when cells need energy but there is no oxygen for aerobic respiation. As a result, cells convert into either ethanol or lactic acid."

Anaerobic Respiration Fermentation, youtube.

I think it's better to be too clean than not. Vegetables can carry E.Coli & even Botulism spores.

Preserving is done by enough acid, sugar, salt or heat treatment. This is off the top of my head so if I forgot one, tell me.

I make yogurt, a lot. I'm trying to find a diy use for extra lactic acid. But, it varies in acidity. :wink2:


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

LOL when I read your thread title I thought it was gonna be about home brewing or wine making.


----------



## AlWood (May 29, 2019)

I ferment in mason jars, pretty easy. I have a few different types of tops, variations on the "nipple" idea, lets co2(?) out to release pressure/let it out.
I use them to make fruit vinegars too (out of real fresh pressed fruit juices, super delicious!)


----------

