# Is there any "reasonably" priced black windows?



## Mordekyle (Dec 3, 2020)

I’ve seen the vinyl delaminate after several years.

At that point, you have to start replacing windows.

That would suck.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

Exactly my fear!!!

Exactly why I thought I should post the question here. I have never seen vinyl windows with a laminated exterior. Didn't know what kind of reputation they have.

Thanks ....


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

Dark colors in vinyl are not a good ideal . even the old Andersen Perma shield windows in dark colors did not last well. The Andersen Fibrex are a ok window. I don't believe there is such a think as cheap colored window frames. Either pay now or pay later when the cheap ones fail.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

OK as they will hold up or OK as in the jury is still out on them?

Are Fibrex considered vinyl or fiberglass or ??????


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Dunno what you considering reasonable. You definitely don't want a cheap window because you get what you pay for. Don't know if you have Gerkin dealers out there but I would recommend the Gerkin 4300 if you are after colors like black on the exterior. Prices vary widely based on location and size.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Pella Impervia would be another option in black (fiberglass) comparable with Andersen. Neither are cheap. But you might be able to talk the dealer into a quantity discount.


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

xtal_01 said:


> OK as they will hold up or OK as in the jury is still out on them?
> 
> Are Fibrex considered vinyl or fiberglass or ??????


Ok they will hold up , I am just not a big Andersen window fan , will use them when don't have any other choice. They are a composite frame. boxy looking in my opinion.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I used Mavin Integrity windows on my house ... white fiberglass outside .. wood inside.

I am still very happy with them but I spent a fortune on them ..... way out of my budget for a workshop.

I will look at Pella ... at least get a price. They look like they are painted (powder coated).

It seems people ether love or hate Anderson. Price wise they are definitely at the top of my budget for a workshop.

This all happened because we saw a building done in black and fell in love with it. Not a big premium on Hardie siding to get black. No cost different in a black metal roof vs any other color roof.

Just he windows seem to jump.

Mike


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Just throwing this out there fwiw... You could get a fairly inexpensive white window and just put a black storm window over it.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

What about aluminum windows?


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I had not thought of that. Do people still use storm windows?

I had thought about painting cheap white vinyl ones ... again a lot of work and don't know how well plastic will take paint.

I am in VT and heating the building. I have had aluminum windows on trailers in the south but never seen them used up here. Do they make an aluminum window certified for northern use?

Lots of aluminum clad windows ... but upper end and super high priced.


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

xtal_01 said:


> I had not thought of that. Do people still use storm windows?
> 
> I had thought about painting cheap white vinyl ones ... again a lot of work and don't know how well plastic will take paint.
> 
> ...


Waste of time to paint vinyl ones, will not last no time even if you prime and use so called vinyl paint.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

xtal_01 said:


> I had not thought of that. Do people still use storm windows?
> 
> I had thought about painting cheap white vinyl ones ... again a lot of work and don't know how well plastic will take paint.
> 
> ...


All I know about aluminum windows is the r-value of the frame is worse and they can be bought in dark colors.
They're very common for commercial. 

Aluminum clad is different.

Vinyl is yukky.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Aluminum windows alone will likely frost up pretty bad in the winter. If you consider aluminum windows, you definitely want the frames to be thermally broken. Even if the frames have thermal breaks, they will still be cold. (A thermal break is a plastic resin that separates the frame into an interior half and an exterior half, and helps prevent heat loss by physically separating the frame, reducing conduction)

Adding a storm window is not usually possible with vinyl windows that are installed with a nailing fin unless your exterior window trim is thick enough to extend the storm window beyond the vinyl frame. If you plan to install the windows as a retrofit, (within the rough opening) it might make storm window installation easier by moving the window farther in toward the interior.

Storm windows are old technology, but they do help in winter. And in this case you would simply be using them for the black aluminum color, so that would be the first thing you see.

Not pushing storm windows, but they are cheap and would be a permanent color that would not require painting.

You definitely should not paint a white vinyl window black unless the windows will never ever be in direct sunlight. Even then it will void any warranty.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I honestly can't say I have ever seen a residential aluminum window ... like a double hung.

Like you said ... lots of commercial use.

I might have to look at storms ... just wondering by the time I add them to the window will I be getting close to the cost of the Anderson windows?

Maybe the "fibrex" will be the answer?

Hmmmmm .... I never make things easy.

Hey maybe I won the lottery tonight (almost 500 million) ... I bought a ticket (I can't remember the last time I had bought one) ... if I won the problem goes away!


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## Mordekyle (Dec 3, 2020)

xtal_01 said:


> I honestly can't say I have ever seen a residential aluminum window ... like a double hung.
> 
> Like you said ... lots of commercial use.
> 
> ...


Generally storm windows are solid panes.

Defeats the purpose of a double hung window 


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Most people are smart enough not to use aluminum in Northern climates, but they are more popular in residential in the South... especially the Southwest.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Mordekyle said:


> Generally storm windows are solid panes.


Having worked in the window industry for the past 30 yrs, I can say without a doubt that is an incorrect statement. Double track and triple track storm windows are commonly used on double hungs, and are far more common than fixed storm windows which are only used over the top of fixed windows that do not open.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I used single hung windows in my barn. They are cheaper because there is no top sash hardware and they leak less because the top sash is fixed, not dependent on weatherstrip.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

XSleeper said:


> Most people are smart enough not to use aluminum in Northern climates, but they are more popular in residential in the South... especially the Southwest.


They were quite popular as residential replacement/retrofit windows in the 80s and early 90s where i am and the climate is northern. The new home builders used wood at the time.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

I did a few too in the early 90s but have shyed away from them ever since... typically aluminum is largely a commercial product in these parts, and I have done a lot of commercial jobs with them. Anything aluminum in residential would tend to freeze shut in the winter behind curtains... patio doors, slider windows, etc. People around here are crazy about humidifiers, and those 2 things + cold temps do not play well together.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I have been getting price on single and double hung ... either will work for me.

I know all about humidity and ice on windows and walls ... we lived in an RV for three years while building the house. Ice on all the aluminum widow frames and covering the front window (the only non thermo pane). 

Lucky this is a shop ... not a lot of humidity up here in VT. Just cooooooold ... then mud ... summer (average 5 days above 90) ... then mud ... then cooooooooold.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I ran into the issue years and years ago......In a lower basement level, I wanted cheap dark brown vinyl windows. I had gotten some before and kinda wanted to match the dark brown..... COULD NOT FIND ANY.

Finally got the answer, the dark colors were warping out because of the heat the frames generate in the sun....so manufactures only go with the lighter colors.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

What about fiberglass framed windows?


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Pella Impervia is fiberglass. (Post #7) They aren't cheap but would be a good choice in black. Some people don't like their texture. It isn't perfectly smooth, it reminds me of how wood looks when it comes out of a planer.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I definitely will get a price on them.

Maybe I need to do some re-thinking. If I really want that look I might compromise ... a few more $'s and a few less windows.

I have a feeling I am going to go broke building this shop. Last fall got a quote for Hardie plank (need about 5,000 sq ft) ... $2.30 sq ft

Just got an updated quote today .... $3.14 sq ft ... ouch!

Nothing is cheap


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

xtal_01 said:


> I definitely will get a price on them.
> 
> Maybe I need to do some re-thinking. If I really want that look I might compromise ... a few more $'s and a few less windows.
> 
> ...



Luckily, we don't have inflation...just ask the SS administaration and the FED. (Yes, I know they will argue this is a temporary supply disruption.....yet the $1 value meal is now two for $3...etc..etc...etc)


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Less windows makes sense. For siding I would highly recommend that you get primed LP smartside and paint it yourself. It's available in a variety of widths. 6, 7, 8" runs about 1.25/sq ft. Either prepaint the planks before you put them up, or put it up and then paint it. 16 ft pieces means less seams. In my experience it's great stuff. Use the 5/4 trim with it at windows and corners. And depending on the look you are going for you can avoid seams altogether if you use battens in your layout every so often. Looks good with exterior soffit lighting.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

Funny you write this! Exactly what I have been debating with myself and asking in other posts.

LP ... Hardie Plank ... rough cut local lumber or lap siding .......

I looked at the pre finished LP board and batten last year ... fell over ... $5 plus a sq ft !!!!!!

I don't mind painting but is LP any good? I saw a video showing it falling apart after 7 - 10 years. It is really only OSB isn't it?

That is why I started looking at Hardie.

In my mind, anything except vinyl (it's cheap and maintenance free ... I just hate the stuff).

Mike


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

XSleeper said:


> Less windows makes sense. For siding I would highly recommend that you get primed LP smartside and paint it yourself. It's available in a variety of widths. 6, 7, 8" runs about 1.25/sq ft. Either prepaint the planks before you put them up, or put it up and then paint it. 16 ft pieces means less seams. In my experience it's great stuff. Use the 5/4 trim with it at windows and corners. And depending on the look you are going for you can avoid seams altogether if you use battens in your layout every so often. Looks good with exterior soffit lighting.


LP Smart side is ok better the Hardi imo. The trim is speedy though. I don't care for the joint covers all that much. Here a lot just gets better with flashing behind it. 

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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

xtal_01 said:


> Funny you write this! Exactly what I have been debating with myself and asking in other posts.
> 
> LP ... Hardie Plank ... rough cut local lumber or lap siding .......
> 
> ...


The old LP did have problems. The new stuff is a better design and finish. Hardi board if not put on right can be loose and fall off the wall. Also cutting it is a real pain. The dust is real bad for you. And yes the base product is like OSB . 

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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

I've never seen any problems personally. But I paint all cut edges and caulk and renail any overdriven fasteners. Its far harder than osb and has way more exterior glue. I've heard of guys who have left pieces soak in water and it doesn't swell up.


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## xtal_01 (Oct 17, 2014)

I know there can be problems with both LP and Hardie.

I have never used either. In the past few months, I have read installation instructions for both ... talked with factory reps .. and watched YouTube video after video after video ....

I still go back and forth. Hardie looks harder to install but LP seems to have more problems ... or at least that is what it looks like.

Here is one video I keep going back to. It shows what I fear with LP.






That said, I had a local builder say he had a few pieces of Hardie "go soft" ... still don't understand why ... I have had a left over piece of Hardie backer outside unprotected for 5 years ... still in good shape ... unless Hardie backer is different than Hardie Plank.

I really liked the LP board and batten look ... 16" wide panels x 16' high ... but I got a price from Diamond Kote ... ouch .... OUCH ! Just way out of the budget.

I wish Hardie made a board and batten ... they make 4 x 8 sheets ... but then I would need z trim and such ... plus 4 x 8 sheets would be heavy and hard to do myself.

I keep thinking "real wood" ... local lumber yard has 12" wide (1" rough or 3/4" finished) for $1.5 per foot ... plus the cost of battens

Just soooooo much work painting primer all over ... then two coats of finish .... I just keep thinking 5,000 sq ft of outside area would be about 20,000 sq ft of paint (prime both sides = 10,000 + two coats finish = 5,000+5,000) ... and I am trying to do as much myself as I can

My wife says I am loosing it ... changing my mind each time I go over the #'s

I need to finalize all this before the snow melts. I will need the entire building season here in VT to get the shell up.

I appreciate all the advice !!!!!!!!!!


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