# Wobbling after new tires



## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

I had to have my front tires replaced recently. The back ones are still in good shape with good tread. However, after the front ones were replaced, I feel a wobbling around 65 MPH. Which is annoying, considering that's the highway speed limit so I feel it all the time!

I took it back to the store to have them check everything. They said the alignment was fine, it's that my struts and shocks are old and need replaced (that is true) and one of my back tires has a slight cupping to it.

They said sometimes putting on new tires will reveal other problems you didn't notice before, and that's the case with my car. Is this true?


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

Yes, bad front struts can feel like a loose wheel, bad wheel bearings, or a broken broken belt in tire, among other things.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

My struts and shocks are old, but I wouldn't say they are "bad". But I was surprised at the wobbling I felt after replacing the front tires. It seems like it's something I should have felt before to some extent with the old tires.


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## D-2.5-GT (Nov 24, 2009)

Worn suspension parts can certainly cause odd behavior, but what you are describing is very typical of a wheel being out of balance. I'd have them re-check the wheels, starting with the ones you put new tires on. 

If you are suspect of their diagnosis, take it to another shop to check.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Make, model and year of the car please.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

lift it off the ground and spin each of the front tires. I have seen too many idiot kids put a wheel on cocked. They have no business using impact guns putting tires on and should be soundly beaten with an air hose for doing it.



sorry, I had flashbacks of it happening to me.

anyway, spin the new tires to see if they have been put on cocked. It may be as simply as loosening all the nuts and then setting the wheel on straight and gradually tightening the nuts in the proper order in several steps of tightening.


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## del schisler (Aug 22, 2010)

*impack driver for tires A no no*

the tires should be torked to a certian feet per pound . Not just put on with a impack driver tell it will no longer drive on the nut. That is how stud's get broken off or stripped. Of couse they were bad before??? bull crap.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

2000 Plymouth mini van. The ultimate sexy, smooth, road machine. (Plus it helped get me out of a ticket. Cop pulled me over for speeding. As he was talking to me, I turned on the interior lights so he could see the child car seats and all the Happy Meal toys scattered around. I smiled and said "Does this van really look like something that can even go that fast?" and he cracked up and let me go. :thumbsup

The suspension needs replaced cuz of the miles, but when I hit a bump my van doesn't bounce up and down, nor does it sway side to side. That's what I mean when I say it isn't "bad", but it does need replaced.

When I took it back to the shop for them to check, they checked the alignment once again. His first suspicion was that a weight had fallen off one of the wheels, but they were still attached. He said the alignment was fine, but one of the back wheels was "cupped" and the old front tires had worn in a way to hide the effect from that cupping. He said the new tires don't hide it anymore and now I'm feeling it.

Does that explanation make sense to you all?


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

If the struts need replacing, replace them and see how it feels...that should help your tires last longer which will offset the cost of the struts (if they need replacing).


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## D-2.5-GT (Nov 24, 2009)

spaceman spif said:


> His first suspicion was that a weight had fallen off one of the wheels, but they were still attached.


Both a missing weight OR a poorly placed one can cause this issue. I'd have them pull the weights on the new wheels and re-set them.


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## piste (Oct 7, 2009)

Curious what the mileage is.

My guess is a balance issue. I had similar problems in the past. Have them checkt the balance...and find a place that can do a "road force balance" with a Hunter machine. Google that for details...but that's what I did and my all terrain tires now glide like butter on the highway....course I too replaced struts and shocks.

I think the rear tire cupping story is total bs. Many mechanics would much rather grasp at straws than say they haven't figured something out yet.


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## liquidvw (Jun 8, 2009)

re balance all tires.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

This was done at a national chain, so I'm thinking of taking it to another store location and have them check the alignment/balance.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Do you feel the vibration in the steering wheel or in the seat?


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

Steering wheel.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

A few items to check.

Drive at 65 with a chase vehicle. Have an occupant of the other vehicle look at your front wheels. You will see a front tire bounce aggressively if there is a bad strut. 

Re-check balance of front wheels. If you have steel rims, they may have bent one when installing the new tires. 

The bead of the new tires may not be fully seated on the rim (especially with stiff side wall tires). 

Tires and rims both have heavy spots. Deflate the tire, break the bead loose from the rim and rotate the tire 180° with respect to the rim. Re-inflate, re-balance and test. 

Your van has floating front brake rotors and the wheel lug nuts secure them to the hub. The rotors may have become separated from the hub allowing rust particles to get between the rotor and hub. This will cause excessive runout and a possible vibration. If this is the case, you may also experience a brake pulsation.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Probably an unbalanced tire, but you might want to check the tie rods. Jack up the car, put the key in the ignition and the van in 'run' to unlock the steering, and then grab the wheel in the 3 and 9 o'clock position. Pull back and forth. Any movement in the tie rods means they need to be replaced. The whole wheel might move, but if there is play/slop where just the tie rod moves, it's probably bad. Check to see if the boots are firm. If not, you need to grease them up.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

Funny you should mention that. The front tires went bad because one of the tie rods eventually came out. The tie rod that came out was replaced, and I had them triple check the other tie rod.

The funny (and scary) thing is that I didn't feel any wobbling as the tie rod worked itself out over time. Fortunately it finally came out as I was pulling out of a driveway and going slow, and not while I was on a highway. My van started jerking as if I was hitting potholes, yet the road was smooth. I turned around and pulled back into the driveway just in time for the rod to fall out.

What's even odder still is the tie rod didn't shear or break, it simply unscrewed itself. The neighbor who looked at it, the tow truck driver who towed it, and the mechanic who worked on it all said they have never seen that happen.


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## piste (Oct 7, 2009)

spaceman spif said:


> Funny you should mention that. The front tires went bad because one of the tie rods eventually came out. The tie rod that came out was replaced, and I had them triple check the other tie rod.
> 
> The funny (and scary) thing is that I didn't feel any wobbling as the tie rod worked itself out over time. Fortunately it finally came out as I was pulling out of a driveway and going slow, and not while I was on a highway. My van started jerking as if I was hitting potholes, yet the road was smooth. I turned around and pulled back into the driveway just in time for the rod to fall out.
> 
> What's even odder still is the tie rod didn't shear or break, it simply unscrewed itself. The neighbor who looked at it, the tow truck driver who towed it, and the mechanic who worked on it all said they have never seen that happen.


Eh? A tie rod worked itself SO loose that it actually fell out and you never noticed til it fell out? And what fell out exactly? The end in the knuckle I presume. Or did the inner separate from the outer? Irrespective of that...these are critical facts left out from the beginning.....any other essential facts you haven't shared?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

spaceman spif said:


> What's even odder still is the tie rod didn't shear or break, it simply unscrewed itself. The neighbor who looked at it, the tow truck driver who towed it, and the mechanic who worked on it all said they have never seen that happen.


You must have lost the cotter pin on the castle nut. That's the only way it could unscrew, and, of course, the reason there is a cotter pin in the first place. 

I have seen most tie rod failure during low speed sharp turns. Ford Taurus' used to be notorious for this sort of catastrophic failure. People turning into a parking space and BAM! the tie rod breaks like a gun going off. Very spectacular when the wheel falls off a four year old car in the parking lot. I saw a tricked out SHO that had this happen in a Wal-Mart once. Guy was piiiiiiisssssed!


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

piste said:


> Eh? A tie rod worked itself SO loose that it actually fell out and you never noticed til it fell out? And what fell out exactly? The end in the knuckle I presume. Or did the inner separate from the outer? Irrespective of that...these are critical facts left out from the beginning.....any other essential facts you haven't shared?





Bigplanz said:


> You must have lost the cotter pin on the castle nut. That's the only way it could unscrew, and, of course, the reason there is a cotter pin in the first place.


The jam nut was loosened and backed off and the inner rod simply unscrewed itself. But no visible damage to the nut, no visible damage to the rod. And like I said, before the day it fell apart, no wobbling, no pulling, no vibration, no bouncing. Which is why I'm concerned because *now* I feel wobbling.

My suspicion is when I had the front tires replaced at a local dealer a little over a year ago, whoever did it did something wrong when they did the alignment. But you can't take it back and say "You installed these wrong one year ago."


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

spaceman spif said:


> The jam nut was loosened and backed off and the inner rod simply unscrewed itself.


Wow. I've never heard of an inner tie rod unscrewing itself from the rack assembly. That's wild.


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## piste (Oct 7, 2009)

spaceman spif said:


> The jam nut was loosened and backed off and the inner rod simply unscrewed itself. But no visible damage to the nut, no visible damage to the rod. And like I said, before the day it fell apart, no wobbling, no pulling, no vibration, no bouncing. Which is why I'm concerned because *now* I feel wobbling.
> 
> My suspicion is when I had the front tires replaced at a local dealer a little over a year ago, whoever did it did something wrong when they did the alignment. But you can't take it back and say "You installed these wrong one year ago."


Umm...your original post said you had the front tires replaced "recently"...and now you say a little over a year ago....? You had them replaced twice? 

I'm no master mechanic but AFAIK it would be VERY obvious if the inner and outer rods unthreaded by a handful of threads or so....but to have absolutely zero noticeable effect until the inner and outer fully separated....I just don't see how that can happen. But taking it on face value....it makes the ENTIRE steering assembly suspect as the cause of your current wobbling. But I still go back to road force balancing as my first recommendation.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

piste said:


> Umm...your original post said you had the front tires replaced "recently"...and now you say a little over a year ago....? You had them replaced twice?
> 
> I'm no master mechanic but AFAIK it would be VERY obvious if the inner and outer rods unthreaded by a handful of threads or so....but to have absolutely zero noticeable effect until the inner and outer fully separated....I just don't see how that can happen. But taking it on face value....it makes the ENTIRE steering assembly suspect as the cause of your current wobbling. But I still go back to road force balancing as my first recommendation.


I had my front tires replaced a little over a year ago. The tie rod fell off recently with that set of tires, and I'm now suspicious they did something to the tie rod assembly when they installed and balanced the tires. When I took the van into a different shop to fix the tie rod, they pulled the front tires and I could see the inner tread had worn unevenly, so I had them replace the front tires at the same time they fixed the tie rod. They also balanced and aligned them, and now I feel a wobble at 65 mph. Sorry if that wasn't clear at first.

And for all I know, the tie rod might have been fine until the day it popped out. But believe me, I can feel when something isn't right with my van, and there was no pulling or wobbling.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

Bigplanz said:


> Wow. I've never heard of an inner tie rod unscrewing itself from the rack assembly. That's wild.


I couldn't believe it either. None of the mechanics had ever seen anything like it either. The tow truck driver was shocked, too. When he saw it, his first question was "Do you have any enemies??" :wink:


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