# Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?



## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

I bought a bunch of products from China.. Unfortunetly they are all for 220V. Is there something I can rewire inside the unit for it to use 120V?

The plug is a standard plug that will fit in our outlets.. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Tyler


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

A bunch of products such as ??
Do the instructions indicate they can be switched to 120v ?


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, they are powerheads for a fish tank. I bought multiples of them to test them out.

Ends up somewhere in my order I didn't specify correctly, and well, now I have them.

The box says 220-240V, so no, it specifies nothing about being converted.

It is a 2 prong plug, and will fit into our outlet. I've been reading and it seems that they use 240V to one prong, and neutral to the other. 

I know that american wiring has the two 120V sources 180 out of phase. But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other?

Tyler


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

It'll blow up in your face. Basically a dead short between the 2 legs.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

wirenut1110 said:


> It'll blow up in your face. Basically a dead short between the 2 legs.


and that's the truth pphhtpppthppP!!!!

lily tomlin


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

hellfire said:


> But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other?


It will go BOOM, and will continue until you stop.

Actually you would be crating a direct line-to-line short and the breaker would trip as soon as you turn it on. 
The two 120v line-to-neutral phases would NOT be combined to give you 240v line-to-neutral. You can only get 240v line-to-line and 120v line-to-neutral.


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Ok, well how can I provide a 240V source, to one plug, correctly?

Instead of telling me what won't work, can someone tell me what will? 

Tyler


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> It will go BOOM, and will continue until you stop.
> 
> Actually you would be crating a direct line-to-line short and the breaker would trip as soon as you turn it on.
> The two 120v line-to-neutral phases would NOT be combined to give you 240v line-to-neutral. You can only get 240v line-to-line and 120v line-to-neutral.


Ok, well do the Euro appliances have each plug get 120V, or does one get 240v, and the other Neutral?

Tyler


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yup, move to China


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yup, move to China


Was thinking about that, but moving to China would hardly be cost effective. 

Tyler


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

hellfire said:


> Well, they are powerheads for a fish tank. I bought multiples of them to test them out.
> 
> Ends up somewhere in my order I didn't specify correctly, and well, now I have them.
> 
> ...


 You are misinformed about American sources being out of phase.
All residential power in North America is single phase, as far as I know.
If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
Not the scenerio that you are looking for.

I would suggest that you would get in touch with the people that supplied these and ask if you can exchange these for 120 volt units.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

there are several problems with this situation.

1. their 240 plug should not fit in our 120 volt recep

2. hooking up 240 volts to a 120 volt recep is against code and as such, illegal in most areas of the country.

3. asia and europe often use 50 hz frequency where we use 60 hz. That can make a difference with your devices and we know nothing really about them and as such, cannot recommend you use 60 hz freq.

4.you sound like you know very little about electricity and telling you how to kill yourself has never been a goal of mine.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

You can most likely have 240v circuits and receptacles installed and change the plugs on the cords. 

This is done quite frequently with European appliances.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

> =Wildie;290517]You are misinformed about American sources being out of phase.
> All residential power in North America is single phase, as far as I know.
> If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
> Not the scenerio that you are looking for


.what the dickens are you talking about? You are wrong, whatever it is.



> I would suggest that you would get in touch with the people that supplied these and ask if you can exchange these for 120 volt units.


very good advice


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

nap said:


> 3. asia and europe often use 50 hz frequency where we use 60 hz. That can make a difference with your devices and we know nothing really about them and as such, cannot recommend you use 60 hz freq.
> 
> 4.you sound like you know very little about electricity and telling you how to kill yourself has never been a goal of mine.


Two VERY good points I neglected to make. :thumbsup:


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

nap said:


> there are several problems with this situation.
> 
> 1. their 240 plug should not fit in our 120 volt recep
> 
> ...


1. Well.. It does?
2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
3. Yes, I know this. Looking into how to resolve this issue as we speak.
4. I'm a fast learner, and very mechanically inclined. I can do this with no issue, if I was provided with instructions.



Speedy Petey said:


> You can most likely have 240v circuits and receptacles installed and change the plugs on the cords.
> 
> This is done quite frequently with European appliances.


I do know that.

Tyler


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

hellfire said:


> 2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
> Tyler


Are you serious ??? Running 240v on a 120 outlet? :jester:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

hellfire said:


> 2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.


I know you say you are trying to lean, but this statement is downright scary. 

This just proves you have A LOT to learn. 

Yes, a given load (in watts) would use more amps at 120v than at 240v. Thing is the load MUST be designed for the voltge supplied. You cannot simply connect a 120v load to a 240v source, or vice versa. Either way you'll fry what ever it is.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

hellfire said:


> 2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
> 
> 
> Tyler


i told you why you do not do what you are suggesting in my second post. I do not tell people how to install systems contrary to NEC specs.

Now, there are ways to make it right but in response to your question, the answer I gave is correct.

I did a little research and China does not use a configuration that will plug into our 5-15R receptacles that I could find.

On top of everything else, we have no idea what kind of current draw this thing is either.


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

Generally speaking, 220 volt 50 HZ devices will operate on 240 volt 60 HZ systems, with a few possible issues. 

1) If there's an induction motor involved (washer, dryer, etc.), it'll run 20% faster. Current and heat-wise, the higher voltage and higher frequency will somewhat balance. I've connected quite a few 220 and 415 volt 50 HZ industrial motors to 208, 240, and 480 volt 60 HZ systems with very few problems. 

2) If there's a universal motor involved (the kind with brushes, like a portable power tool, or kitchen appliance), it'll run about 5-10% faster. Current and heat will be slightly increased, but not to damaging levels. I have a bunch of 220 volt 50 HZ drills, saws, etc., that I run on 240 volts 60 HZ without problems. 

3) If there's a transformer involved, frequency will make very little difference, but voltage of the output will rise by about 10%. Not a problem in most cases. 

4) If there's a switching power supply involved (like a computer type), there's no difference at all. 

The reason to not connect a standard receptacle to a non-standard voltage is because in your absence, there's an almost certain chance of someone plugging something standard into it, and destroying the device. Even if it were labelled, some nit-wit would likely figure 'Hey, it's 220, my (insert name of macho tool here) will be twice as strong now!! It actually will...... for about 1/2 a second!

There are receptacles and plugs available that are rated for 250 volts. They are the same physical size as the standard ones, but the prong configuration is different, so as to prevent sending the wrong voltage to anything. A 15 amp 250 volt receptacle and plug has the two power prongs horizontal instead of the standard vertical. They come in single or duplex, and fit standard boxes and use standard cover plates. When connected to a 15 amp two pole breaker, they're also completely code compliant. You'll most likely need to run a dedicated circuit from the panel though. Google nema 6-15 and look at some of the pictures, and you'll see the difference. 

Another possibility, if the load is small enough, is a transformer to go from 120 to 240. If the load is more than a couple of amps, these get expensive though.

Rob

P.S. Like nap, Petey, and just about all the other pros, my advice is also based on code. It's not all that difficult to comply with, and it insures a reasonably safe installation.


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## woodnthings (Jun 8, 2009)

*A web search revealed:*

http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap11/electric.htm
If nothing else this link may provide some info on the differences
between USA and European voltages and Frequencies.
FYI, bill
BTW the search was " converting European appliances to USA "
http://www.starkelectronic.com/st500.htm has transformers


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

micromind said:


> Generally speaking, 220 volt 50 HZ devices will operate on 240 volt 60 HZ systems, with a few possible issues.
> 
> 1) If there's an induction motor involved (washer, dryer, etc.), it'll run 20% faster. Current and heat-wise, the higher voltage and higher frequency will somewhat balance. I've connected quite a few 220 and 415 volt 50 HZ industrial motors to 208, 240, and 480 volt 60 HZ systems with very few problems.
> 
> ...


 
Thank god! Finally a real answer.

I've been reading all day, and basically I want to do, what this little guy does.

http://www.millionbuy.com/phctc55u.html

The products I'm trying to get to work, say it consumes only 6w.

Now how can I, make this work? Please, someone answer properly, not just "Move to China, etc".

I'm not 13, I can make this work.

Also, despite everyones doubts, I plugged one in the standard socket, and it works. Just the motor spins uber slow. So it doesn't even do what it is supposed to do. 

Now all I need to know, is how to provide 240V to the unit, so I can use it. The power outlet will be behind my fish tank, with GFCI, and I own my own home, so now worries about someone else plugging something in.

Thanks.
Tyler


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Here is my main question holding me back.

Alright, a normal 240V appliance, has 3 plugs. 2 hot, and 1 Neutral, correct? 

How do I, get 240V to only my 2 prong device?

Tyler


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

With a load of 6 watts, you'd be better off using a transformer. Try googling something like 120 to 240 voltage converters or something like that. If you can't find anything there, it's not hard to build one that small.

If the transformers (also known as converters) are rated in VA rather than watts, figure 1 watt = 1.2 VA. 

Knowing the load helped a lot.

Rob


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

nap said:


> .what the dickens are you talking about? You are wrong, whatever it is.


 OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.

If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

Sorry, I type pretty slow.

A 240 volt device in the US has two hots and a ground, no neutral. If your device has only two prongs, it's most likely double-insulated, and doesn't need a ground. Just the two hots. Some of my 220 volt power tools are like that, others need both hots and the ground.

Rob


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

micromind said:


> Sorry, I type pretty slow.
> 
> A 240 volt device in the US has two hots and a ground, no neutral. If your device has only two prongs, it's most likely double-insulated, and doesn't need a ground. Just the two hots. Some of my 220 volt power tools are like that, others need both hots and the ground.
> 
> Rob


Alright, thanks! I'll let you know if I blow it up or not. 

Tyler


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Ok, another quick question. How would I know if the device is double insulated? I understand the meaning of the term, but how would I know before I try it out?

Tyler


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Wildie said:


> OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
> I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.
> 
> If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!


You said this:

If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
Not the scenerio that you are looking for.


in response to ( I am presuming since you did quote it) this:



> I know that american wiring has the two 120V sources 180 out of phase. But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other?




the OP was speaking of connecting both legs of his service to one terminal of the recep and the neutral to the other.

while you were technically correct in your series circuit scenario, you were wrong concerning anything the OP was suggesting.

Oh, and just FYI; there are multi-phase systems in some resi services but it is far from the norm.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*"Using" 240v. appliances on 120v.?*

If exchanging the power supplies for the correct ones is not a feasible option, you might consider purchasing a STEP-UP Transformer of the Plug-in type. Provided that the frequency (50/60Hz.) and current draw are compatible.
some appliance stores might have those transformers!:yes::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive!!!


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Wildie said:


> OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
> [I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.]
> 
> If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!


Have you ever been to NYC? Did you see the wiring on the poles? 
I believe that the POCO, Con Edison provides 3-phase 125v. power even to residential service!!! I believe the same case is true for Montreal, too. I've lived there a while !!!:yes::no::detective:


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

nap said:


> You said this:
> 
> If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
> Not the scenerio that you are looking for.
> ...


 Thank you!

You seem to be better at translating than I. It never occurred to me that the OP would even consider connecting 220 to a 120 house circuit. 

On my first post I was responding the OP's statement about the voltages being out of phase and I was trying to point out that this is not correct! (terminology)

quote<I know that american wiring *has the two 120V sources 180 out of phase.* But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other? >unquote


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

What kind of fish tank is this?
One that the contents are expendable?
I have a 240g saltwater setup

I wouldn't even think about connecting a device that
#1 Is not connected to a GFCI
#2 there is any doubt about its MFG, use, power supplied
#3 Does not have a ground
#4 Harder - FROM China


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I have a 240g saltwater setup


Holy crap! 

Do you do school field trips? :laughing:


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## hellfire (Jun 20, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> What kind of fish tank is this?
> One that the contents are expendable?
> I have a 240g saltwater setup
> 
> ...


120G Saltwater. I'm on here asking questions. Not just plugging it in.

1. It is connected to a GFCI, all my connections are besides the heater and one powerhead.

2. I know the MFG.

3. There are tons of items for the aquarium that don't have a ground. Have you never used a Maxijet?

Tyler


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

hellfire said:


> 120G Saltwater. I'm on here asking questions.
> 3. There are tons of items for the aquarium that don't have a ground. Have you never used a Maxijet?
> 
> Tyler


You can't pay me to use a maxi jet


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

If it came from the factory without a ground, and it has a UL listing, then it's double insulated. If it doesn't have a UL listing, there's likely no way to know. 

If it's a single device connected to an isolating transformer (voltage converter), I don't see where grounding would be an issue. More than one device could possibly cause problems. 

If the voltage converter is an autotransformer, then you're protected by the GFI. 

Rob

P.S. My house has a 120/208 3 phase 4 wire wye system. It's very rare to find a house with 3 phase, but they do exist.

P.P.S. The 20 amp 250 volt receptacles in my garage that I run the 220 volt 50 HZ tools from has a buck-boost transformer in the circuit. The actual voltage is right at 240.


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## wmldwilly (Mar 31, 2009)

hellfire said:


> Here is my main question holding me back.
> 
> Alright, a normal 240V appliance, has 3 plugs. 2 hot, and 1 Neutral, correct?
> 
> ...


I think that when you start making statements along these lines is when you start raising the hackles of lots of readers around here. I'm not sure what you mean by a "240v appliance" - do you mean a North American applicance that requires two balanced 120v supplies and a neutral to run (like a clothes dryer)? or do you mean a European/Other appliance that requires one 240v. supply and a neutral (and/or ground) to run?

A 120v appliance here in the US typically requires 1 incoming 120volt supply line and a neutral to complete the circuit and run. A "240v appliance" *usually* means the item is intended to run on consumer electrical service in places other than north america and requires 1 incoming 220 to 240v supply line and a neutral to complete the circuit and run. In Europe or elsewhere, they don't just "combine 120v lines" to make things 240v and run their appliances - the transformers that take utility power and step it down from higher (sometimes very high) distribution voltages to "consumer" voltages are set to create the 120volts on the wire when it's connected in a complete circuit here in the US, and set to create the higher 220 to 240volts on the wire when it's connected in a complete circuit in England.

two short bits of lingo I see missing from many conversations on this topic that might help you understand is "with respect to neutral", or "with respect to Phase". In my biz (stage lighting systems, both permanent and touring) we regularly have conversations like this, especially when touring equipment moves across oceans. To make this more clear, if you take your multimeter (set to read voltage) and put the probes between a black wire and a white wire in the US, you should see anywhere between 110 and 128 volts - preferably 120 volts straight up. If you take those same probes and connect them between the black wire and the white wire in England (the color codes could be different - i've seen blue hots and yellow neutrals in the UK, and brown hots in France...) you'll see anywhere from say 225 to 250 volts. 

Now - to address your "can't I just combine them?" statement: you don't "wire together" multiple 120v lines to make higher voltages - devices like clothes dryers (and motors and other things) that need 220 volts aren't expecting to see 1 phase with 220 volts, they're expecting to see TWO phases of 120volts each which they will electrically and/or electronically make use of in their own way which us typical DIY sparkys don't really need to get deeply into. If you're curious, if you take your multimeter from the paragraph above and go to your dryer plug and put the probes between the black and red wires (assuming it's wired correctly at your panel...) you'll see about 212 volts depending on your incoming voltage. When we talk about measurements of voltage like that, we can say "with respect to phase", or "phase to phase". The general math involved that we use in my line of work is "phase to phase voltage equals approximately 177% of the phase to neutral voltage". Have you ever heard someone say "that's a 208 outlet"? What they usually mean is that the outlet they're referring to has both residential phases present and a ground/neutral/bond of whatever sort is required to complete the circuit. Many people would find that their every day mid day "not too hot today, not too cold today" line voltage is about 117 or 118 volts at their outlets, and that gives us 118 volts * 1.77 = 208.86 volts.

There's LOTS of other science and math and variations involved that revolve around concepts like this - single or three phase? delta or "wild" legs, 277 volt service, 480 volt service, etcetera. Combined with the fact that electricity can a) burn things down or b) kill you, and you should understand why some people bristle at postings that don't so much ask how something can be done as propose what one wants to do and dare others to tell why it's not going to work. 

Therefore, I think the answer to your question originally is "No, you can not thru any wiring means create a 240v *with respect to neutral" circuit in your home and you will need to add a transformer to raise the voltage at the device that requires 240v *with respect to neutral*".

If your device is NOT REQUIRING "240 volts with respect to neutral", then this is a whole different kettle of fish.

I can envision your post and this whole conversation going better (and not taking all the way until post #20 for the first mention of a step-up transformer...) if it had went something like this:

you: "I want to use these items from another country that say they're "240 volts" here in the US. Can I wire an outlet in my house to do that?"

others: "if the item says it requires 240volts then no you can't. You need to use a step-up transformer between the item and the wall outlet".

you: "but i'm not sure if it really needs 240 volts like it's going to be used in Europe, or if it needs 220 volts like our clothes dryers or central air conditioners here"

others: "you'd have to ask the manufacturer that question or read the manual and wiring instructions closely to determine that"

you: "Okay, I looked into it and it's a 240 volt item like would be used in the UK or parts of Europe"

others: "yup, you need a transformer in line".

That's my $00.02 for ya. Your voltage may vary.


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## qbert (Mar 23, 2009)

gottem cheap!!


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## sirius (Jan 14, 2014)

*Voltage Converter*

Simple and easy... You just need to buy " Voltage Converter" which comes with universal plugs. 
A voltage converter can be used in 110 volt countries and 220 volt countries. It will convert from 220-240 volt to 110-120 volt AND from 110-120 volt to 220-240 volt.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

hellfire said:


> I bought a bunch of products from China.. Unfortunetly they are all for 220V. Is there something I can rewire inside the unit for it to use 120V?
> 
> The plug is a standard plug that will fit in our outlets.. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


Do you have 240v available ?

If not, you could use a small step up transdformer,
Power heads are low power devices so a small tranny would do !
Unlikely that there is an internal option for 120v !


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

sirius, check the dates of the posts you are replying to.


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## Toller (Jan 2, 2013)

The OP is 5 years ago?! I feel silly, but there doesn't seem to be any way to delete this?


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