# Painting over silicone caulk??



## evapman

Hi Jschack, 

Never had any luck painting over silicone with oil or latex. prolly have to remove it and use paintable caulk.


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## chrisn

evapman said:


> Hi Jschack,
> 
> Never had any luck painting over silicone with oil or latex. prolly have to remove it and use paintable caulk.


Unfortunatly that is true.


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## slickracer

I've had good luck priming first with Cover Stain and then painting. Has held for 4 years now...


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## poppameth

I second CoverStain. I've also done this on occasion and it does seem to work. BIN also seems to work okay. Those are the only two I've ever tried it with. Neither is a real solution. Both "may or may not" work for you. Actually I had some silicone on the outside of my house filling the hole around the cable tv connection coming in. I painted right over that with P&L SuPrime 100% Acrylic. I just checked it and it's on there tight. Maybe having weathered so long it had more tooth for the primer to grab to. I find it kind of odd that acrylic stuck to it though.


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## chrisn

poppameth said:


> I second CoverStain. I've also done this on occasion and it does seem to work. BIN also seems to work okay. Those are the only two I've ever tried it with. _*Neither is a real solution.:no:*_ Both "may or may not" work for you.
> 
> 
> I would not bet on either one. Neither one is labled for coverage over silicon and I would bet if slickracer took a fingernail over what he did it would not hold up.


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## slickracer

One thing I did was really clean the caulk with mineral spirits before I primed. Maybe that helped.


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## chrisn

slickracer said:


> One thing I did was really clean the caulk with mineral spirits before I primed. Maybe that helped.


If it is still sticking then maybe you have found the solution.


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## ccarlisle

In actual fact, that silicone adhesive your friend inadvertently used is a fine example of just how silicones work - well, that is those that are chemically of a certain structure (because not all silicones show adhesive proeprties - but close enough for the sake of this thread).

Silicones like this one attach themselves _chemically_ to the substrate whereas other caulking compounds attach themselves _mechanically_ to the substate. In doing so, silicones can attach themselves to pretty well any substrate much better than other products because they orient themselves in such a way that on one side of the bead (towards the substrate) they stick and on the other side facing you they do the opposite: they repel anything that tries to stick to them...:yes:

Chemical bonding and all that...but on the side facing you, you are looking at a very slick surface that as I said repels everything - much like the wax on the hood of your car...products just bead up once they land on a silicone and fall off. They do that by orienting the silicone molecules in such a way that the surface has very low "surface tension". That means everything rolls off it. 

To put it into numbers, the silicone surface has a surafce tension somewhere around 30 dynes/cm...water has a higher surface tension around 72 dynes/cm. Now by physiochemical principles, the *higher* surface tension product (water) cannot remain comfortably on the *lower* surface tension product (silicone) - and the water rolls off.

Thus the only way to make something stick to a silicone is to give it the same surface tension as the silicone...don't ask how I know that, I just do. :laughing:

Ta-da... "fluorochemicals" to the rescue!!:thumbsup:

If you put "fluorochemicals" into a caulk or a paint, it would stick to silicones. Some products have "fluorochemicals" in them, but they ain't cheap. 

Sooooo...95% of the products you try to put over that type of silicone wan't stick for very long. But one or two just might. Either spend your time trying to find that one or two products, or take it out and do it properly.

Here endeth the lesson...:whistling2: Not bad for a Saturday night :laughing: I gotta get a life...


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## chrisn

Now,THERE is the answer!:thumbsup::thumbup::yes::laughing:


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## fstwrtr

OR you could simply buy a tube of siliconized latex caulk such as Sherwin Williams 950 and re caulk over the GE stuff, then simply paint over the area..


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## saggdevil

I'd attempt to use "paintable silicone" over the existing silicone caulk; prime the caulked area, then repaint. Before re-caulking, use alcohol or clear water to wipe off the originial caulk and dry completely. I've painted over the paintable silicone with no problems.

Btw...at one time GE caulk was manufactured by Dow Corning (the makers of RTV). That may or may not be the case now. It was a very good product last time I used it.


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## nerd_flanders

chrisn said:


> poppameth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I second CoverStain. I've also done this on occasion and it does seem to work. BIN also seems to work okay. Those are the only two I've ever tried it with. _*Neither is a real solution.:no:*_ Both "may or may not" work for you.
> 
> 
> I would not bet on either one. Neither one is labled for coverage over silicon and I would bet if slickracer took a fingernail over what he did it would not hold up.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about being a nay-sayer. unless you can come up with a real solution you shouldn't criticisethese people trying to help and accept that the answer is not guaranteed to work. it's trial and error and those two are your best options.
> In this case I would say Bin sealer would be the best option.to TRY .
Click to expand...


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## nerd_flanders

ccarlisle said:


> In actual fact, that silicone adhesive your friend inadvertently used is a fine example of just how silicones work - well, that is those that are chemically of a certain structure (because not all silicones show adhesive proeprties - but close enough for the sake of this thread).
> 
> Silicones like this one attach themselves _chemically_ to the substrate whereas other caulking compounds attach themselves _mechanically_ to the substate. In doing so, silicones can attach themselves to pretty well any substrate much better than other products because they orient themselves in such a way that on one side of the bead (towards the substrate) they stick and on the other side facing you they do the opposite: they repel anything that tries to stick to them...:yes:
> 
> Chemical bonding and all that...but on the side facing you, you are looking at a very slick surface that as I said repels everything - much like the wax on the hood of your car...products just bead up once they land on a silicone and fall off. They do that by orienting the silicone molecules in such a way that the surface has very low "surface tension". That means everything rolls off it.
> 
> To put it into numbers, the silicone surface has a surafce tension somewhere around 30 dynes/cm...water has a higher surface tension around 72 dynes/cm. Now by physiochemical principles, the *higher* surface tension product (water) cannot remain comfortably on the *lower* surface tension product (silicone) - and the water rolls off.
> 
> Thus the only way to make something stick to a silicone is to give it the same surface tension as the silicone...don't ask how I know that, I just do. :laughing:
> 
> Ta-da... "fluorochemicals" to the rescue!!:thumbsup:
> 
> If you put "fluorochemicals" into a caulk or a paint, it would stick to silicones. Some products have "fluorochemicals" in them, but they ain't cheap.
> 
> Sooooo...95% of the products you try to put over that type of silicone wan't stick for very long. But one or two just might. Either spend your time trying to find that one or two products, or take it out and do it properly.
> 
> Here endeth the lesson...:whistling2: Not bad for a Saturday night :laughing: I gotta get a life...


What are flourochemicals and where can I obtain them or what products are they in???


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## fstwrtr

I suppose for the over achiever, who is intent on loosing sleep and wringing hands over such an issue, one could simple cut out the silicone caulk and start over. thus he can then move on to worrying about other major worldly issues.


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## saggdevil

Not sure if he is an over-achiever or if he is intent on losing sleep and wringing his hands, but he is asking advice from those that have addressed the issue before. 

Back to the original question....*you can paint over "PAINTABLE SILICONE CAULK*". To remedy the problem, you can use the paintable silicone caulk over the non-paintable silicone caulk, then prime and paint. I have used this before with no problems. _*The silicone is the best to use for any wet areas*_ such as gutters and flashing. Once resolved he can then move on to those other major worldly issues.


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## fstwrtr

saggdevil said:


> Not sure if he is an over-achiever or if he is intent on losing sleep and wringing his hands, but he is asking advice from those that have addressed the issue before.
> 
> Back to the original question....*you can paint over "PAINTABLE SILICONE CAULK*". To remedy the problem, you can use the paintable silicone caulk over the non-paintable silicone caulk, then prime and paint. I have used this before with no problems. _*The silicone is the best to use for any wet areas*_ such as gutters and flashing. Once resolved he can then move on to those other major worldly issues.


 
I have done the exact same thing with sucsesful results, and advised him to do just that, but others on this site feel that their answers are gospel
and MUST b followed


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## chrisn

Talk about being a nay-sayer. unless you can come up with a real solution you shouldn't criticisethese people trying to help and accept that the answer is not guaranteed to work. 

I was in no way criticising anyone. Just stating the facts, I have tried all of these solutions and have found none of them to work well. The best would be to remove and replace with the proper caulk, that WILL work.


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## ccarlisle

Got that right!:yes:

It's now part of our fabric to look for cheap, easy ways to get things done instead of either doing it right in the first place or if done wrong, start again. Look there may be a product out there that has fluorochemicals in it that MAY be paintable over a silicone caulk, but I don't know of one and if there is there's no market for it. Why spend your and my time to get tot he answer we knew already? Do it right - either the first time or later but do it right.

Quit worrying about which product might contain fluorochemicals, where to find it, how much it costs, then ask a forum about it, have it explained to you, spend another week wondering about it, then get into your SUV and go buy it...And all in the name of saving you 10 minutes doing what you should have done in the first place.

Look, I don't knock _not knowing_ something...I'm big on _not_ knowing. But I went to school to learn how to find out, make an educated guess and if that gets screwed up, start at the beginning with a new set of parameters. Next time do it better...:yes:


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## saggdevil

Just an added note here....it's always a good idea to wipe the dried caulk with alcohol prior to prime and paint. The solvent will evaporate and leave the caulk clean, dry and as "grippable" as possible.


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## kksi

*painting over silicone caulk.*

I had the same problem painting the silicone caulk. It appeared that the paint would bead away off of most of the silicone before drying. Having nothing left to lose except to cut and clean away all the caulking. I tried something different and it worked for me. Hope it works well for you too. I cleaned the silicone caulking with mineral spirits and dried it. I then gently warmed a small area with a heating gun at low setting. I applied a thin coat of paint with one hand and immediately applied some heat to the area to dry it before it could bead away. Later I applied a second coat the same way. So far, so good for me. Good luck.:thumbup:


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## Gymschu

Wow, these threads are so old that most of those that responded are now *deceased!*


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## Brushjockey

But a problem that just won't go away! 

KKsi- just dont touch the paint. It may have dried, but it will flake off very easily.


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## chrisn

been quicker to dig it out and replace it


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## jsheridan

I thought jagans was at it again :laughing:


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## SPS-1

chrisn said:


> been quicker to dig it out and replace it


But that might be easier said than done. There are a few threads in this forum about replacing silicone caulk in a bath/shower area. Concensus is that once silicone is put on a surface, nothing, not even silicone, will stick to that surface unless absolutely all trace residue is removed.
I replaced the silcone in my tiled shower once. Scrubbed the surfaces for two days to make sure they were clean. Seems to stick. But just the same, I am not about to pull on it to test the strength of the bond.


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## cdaniels

How do you "accidentally" use a clear silicone? lol.Cut/scrape it off with a razor blade. Nothing bonds to it.


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## ToolSeeker

I think it's a conspiracy from the manufactures to put non-paintable on those tubes. And do not remove the old that's too easy and anybody can do that. Put another layer on top and if that doesn't work put another layer on. No one will notice the big glob of chaulk sticking out.


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## mystreba

jschack said:


> My painter accidently used GE silicone II sealant, clear. I


Coincidentally, my stupid painter also used GE Silicone II sealant in my new bathroom, and now I can't paint the walls. I doubt we used the same stupid painter though, since I have never been to your house.

At any rate, I tried an experiment. The silicone was very thin and very narrow (painters tape made sure of that). 

1- On one corner of the wall I applied a thin layer of drywall compound over the silicone. After a while it finally dried and I sanded and painted. It seemed to work. 
2- On the other corner of the wall I removed the silicone, painted and re-caulked.

Method #2 went faster than method #1, and it won't keep me up worrying every night. The "choice" doesn't seem so much like a choice! Do it right and sleep easy.


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## Mr. Paint

After removal and cleaning, solder the joints/seams and it should last longer than most of us.


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## KD PAINTING

You can either caulk over it and then paint or remove the silicone, caulk and paint.

Good Luck!


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## moorewarner

ccarlisle said:


> In actual fact, that silicone adhesive your friend inadvertently used is a fine example of just how silicones work - well, that is those that are chemically of a certain structure (because not all silicones show adhesive proeprties - but close enough for the sake of this thread).
> 
> Silicones like this one attach themselves _chemically_ to the substrate whereas other caulking compounds attach themselves _mechanically_ to the substate. In doing so, silicones can attach themselves to pretty well any substrate much better than other products because they orient themselves in such a way that on one side of the bead (towards the substrate) they stick and on the other side facing you they do the opposite: they repel anything that tries to stick to them...:yes:
> 
> Chemical bonding and all that...but on the side facing you, you are looking at a very slick surface that as I said repels everything - much like the wax on the hood of your car...products just bead up once they land on a silicone and fall off. They do that by orienting the silicone molecules in such a way that the surface has very low "surface tension". That means everything rolls off it.
> 
> To put it into numbers, the silicone surface has a surafce tension somewhere around 30 dynes/cm...water has a higher surface tension around 72 dynes/cm. Now by physiochemical principles, the *higher* surface tension product (water) cannot remain comfortably on the *lower* surface tension product (silicone) - and the water rolls off.
> 
> Thus the only way to make something stick to a silicone is to give it the same surface tension as the silicone...don't ask how I know that, I just do. :laughing:
> 
> Ta-da... "fluorochemicals" to the rescue!!:thumbsup:
> 
> If you put "fluorochemicals" into a caulk or a paint, it would stick to silicones. Some products have "fluorochemicals" in them, but they ain't cheap.
> 
> Sooooo...95% of the products you try to put over that type of silicone wan't stick for very long. But one or two just might. Either spend your time trying to find that one or two products, or take it out and do it properly.
> 
> Here endeth the lesson...:whistling2: Not bad for a Saturday night :laughing: I gotta get a life...


 Am I the only one who's nipples got hard reading that? :laughing: :thumbsup:


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## moorewarner

KD PAINTING said:


> You can either caulk over it and then paint or remove the silicone, caulk and paint.
> 
> Good Luck!


I was going to suggest/ask about this solution. Do you know it to work? Does it work well?


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## Brushjockey

moorewarner said:


> Am I the only one who's nipples got hard reading that? :laughing: :thumbsup:



I think I had a little stiffy myself..


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## chrisn

carlise quotes this( along with a lot of other stuff) ( good stuff)
"Some products have "fluorochemicals" in them, but they ain't cheap. "

got any names?:huh:


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