# Wall Backer for shower enclosure



## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

In final stages of planning a basement bathroom. I purchased a 60"x33" shower base that comes up around knee-high and has a built in seat. I chose not to buy the 3-piece side panels, and prefer to tile the wall surround.

The shower/base is designed to screw directly to the wall studs, and the manufacturer recommends running the backer board down to the top of the lip and using the tile to overlap the lip.

I have used the green drywall in the past for shower walls covered with tile. But It seems I am seeing a lot of folks using some sort of durock backer-board. 

a)So is it still ok to use the greenboard for a tile shower? Or should I really plan to use the rock/concrete backer-board?

b) if I do use the rock-board, how do I make the transition to 'normal' drywall being used for the rest of the bathroom?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Never use any form of drywall behind tile!!
Use 1/2 tile board and waterproof it with a product like Red Guard or Hydoban.
It's close enough to the thickness of drywall that some web tape and wide seam will blend it in.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Never use any form of drywall behind tile!!
Use 1/2 tile board and waterproof it with a product like Red Guard or Hydoban.
It's close enough to the thickness of drywall that some web tape and wide seam will blend it in.
The tile board is installed so there's a small gap between the pan and the board, once tile that area gets caulked not thinset.
Do not use mastic or premixed mud to attach the tiles, use real bagged thinset.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

ok. I will use the 1/2" backer board. And only run the backer board down to just above the lip top edge?

Like this?


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Drywall has no place in a shower. Backer board or foam products like Kerdi. If you use backer then a waterproofing membrane like RedGuard works nicely. Foam wouldn't need that as it's waterproof by design (when installed properly). 

One of the reasons not to use drywall behind tile is the waterproofing problem. But in addition there's the strength factor. Someone slipping and falling against a wall tiled over drywall is very likely to cause it to crack. That's not going to happen with backer board. Tile depends on a very stable substrate and drywall just isn't the right material for that. 

Pay attention to the seams where the plane changes or you meet other materials. That's where you use caulk NOT grout. The reason being you want to maintain a good seal as materials move. Grout is hard and will crack, leaving you at risk of water getting in there. Caulk will flex and keep things sealed.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

I am using a fiberglass shower base that comes up to about knee high. I was planning to use Durock for the walls.

a) can I tile right onto the Durock? Wkearny mentioned something about a membrane? I did not think I needed something between the Durock and the tile (other than mortor)

b) Its a basement bathroom, so I am planning to continue the drop-ceiling using moisture risistant ceiling tiles. Should I run the Durock all the way up behind the drop ceiling framing supports? Or do I need to transition from Durock to Drywall before the level of the drop ceiling?


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

caveeagle said:


> I am using a fiberglass shower base that comes up to about knee high. I was planning to use Durock for the walls.
> 
> a) can I tile right onto the Durock? Wkearny mentioned something about a membrane? I did not think I needed something between the Durock and the tile (other than mortor)
> 
> b) Its a basement bathroom, so I am planning to continue the drop-ceiling using moisture risistant ceiling tiles. Should I run the Durock all the way up behind the drop ceiling framing supports? Or do I need to transition from Durock to Drywall before the level of the drop ceiling?


FYI
Tile, grout, mortar, and backer board is not waterproof! after you hang the backer you need to use Hydroban or Red guard on it two coats min. then tile it!. Also drywall no matter what color it is you do not put it under tile in a shower ever!


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

You use a backer board (durock, hardibacker, etc) to provide a stable surface. It's not waterproof per se. It's largely water resistant as part of the whole series of layers. There may be need to install a membrane behind it, this as a means to allow whatever moisture might get in there to follow gravity down to the tub lip. But if you're using Redguard (or any other membrane applied to the surface, you don't need the sheet behind the backer (and don't want it to avoid capturing anything in-between). 

When using foam board it combines the backer and membrane into one.

I've done the backer & redguard method and it works great. I've had someone else do the foam method (in our new house baths and steam shower) and it also works great. But the foam board is more expensive and does require a bit more expertise to install. Not "a lot" but backer and redguard is perhaps more forgiving to the DIY experience.

Honestly, you do not use drywall anywhere in the wet area. For a low-use shower, maybe using greenboard above the enclosure and on the ceiling. Just make sure to have proper ventilation in there so condensation doesn't form on the ceiling. Lutron (and others) make electrical switches that have a timer. These are GREAT for bathroom ceiling fans. Set it for half-hour after taking a shower and you're done.

I don't know that I'd use drop-ceiling in a bathroom, that just invites moisture problems developing sight-unseen. That and rust as few means to hang such tiles are water resistant. So even in situations where the rest of the ceiling is drop tile, the bath ceiling gets drywall. Best to encapsulate the room so that moisture doesn't become a problem elsewhere.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

Is there a brand name for the foamboard? I will do a search, but want zero in on exactly what your talking about.

I appreciate all your point re NOT tiling over drywall. I tend to move every 3-5 years and have lived in several 'builder spec' homes where the bathroom tile was layed right on the drywall. One house in Jacksoville FL, I had tiles falling off (12yr old house), so I tore it apart and built it back using just greenboard. I did not know any better, and thought the greenboard was at least an upgrade over the normal drywall the builder used.

Does building code all putting tile right over the drywall? Seems I have seen this done quite a bit.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Lots of bad things get done 'quite a bit'. Doesn't make them good ideas. Florida, you say? No, say it ain't so, there's bad building practices there? Heh. 

Kerdi is a popular brand of the foam system. It will come across as pretty expensive compared to backer board. But then it also includes being waterproof. That and it requires close attention to how it's installed. Seams and such have to be taped properly, etc. It's definitely something a pro "get's used to doing" but may be a steep learning curve for the DIY'er. 

Redguard is also a bit pricey but, man, does it work. When we demolished the old house I tried pulling some of it apart. No chance, it had a tremendously strong bond on the backer and thinset. This even after 7 years. No leaks to be see anywhere.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

OK, so I can plan to screw Durock right to the studs, and roll the Redguard over the Durock. Does the RedGuard waterproof the Durock Joints? (I will do a little more reaearch on that.)

What about where you go from Tile to flat wall, like on the ceiling, or the wall above the tile? I assume you would transition from Durock back to Drywall and finish as normal. ?

I am reluctant to drywall the ceiling in this area. There HVAC ducting and some air control valves that I want to be able to get to if needed.

I have used moisture resistant ceiling tiles in the past and it seemed to work ok. I am planning to install a good vent fan, and might just wire it into the light switch, or with a timer as stated above.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

There are dual-function light switch & timer devices that fit into a single gang box. One part is a light dimmer, the other is the fan timer. Works great. This way you can leave the fan running for long enough to properly clear out the humid air without leaving the light on. I've used them in 2-gang boxes where one position was the vanity light above the mirror. The other position had the recessed lighting and the fan. 

It's up to you, of course. Having access to valves is important. There are access panels that might be better suited for that. Oatey's plastic ones won't rust. But if it's really not going to see much regular use then tiles could certainly be considered.

You typically transition from drywall to backer via tile with a bullnosed edge. Or some other kind of rounded-over corner. There are all kinds of tiling variations for doing that. There's a fantastic tile-centric website out there for tips. Search for "John Bridge tile forum".


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

If you don't have the durock yet you can also just attach six mil plastic to the studs and lap it over the tub edge before putting up the rock and that will be your waterproofing. Then use durock tape and thinset to fill the gaps that you left between the pieces. Then tile. Ron


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

ront02769 said:


> If you don't have the durock yet you can also just attach six mil plastic to the studs and lap it over the tub edge before putting up the rock and that will be your waterproofing. Then use durock tape and thinset to fill the gaps that you left between the pieces. Then tile. Ron


Just don't bother doing that AND then a waterproofing layer. Otherwise you sandwich the material between two waterproof layers. That poses problems for trapped moisture. A membrane applied to the face of the backer has somewhat better potential for a complete seal (as no nails or screws go through it to hold the backer). Either method works, of course, and both are MUCH better than tiling over drywall.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

ront02769 said:


> If you don't have the durock yet you can also just attach six mil plastic to the studs and lap it over the tub edge before putting up the rock and that will be your waterproofing. Then use durock tape and thinset to fill the gaps that you left between the pieces. Then tile. Ron


Ok time to use some common sense. you staple plastic sheeting to the studs whoops no longer waterproof! you then screw tile backer to the studs every 6 to eight inches now you have even more holes in that "water proof" plastic sheet. 
Sorry I would pay the 138.00 dollars to roll red guard on my tile boards then rely on some plastic I just popped a bunch of hole in to protect my home.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I think there's some common sense to consider here. Yes, roll-on waterproofing (applied correctly) is going to give a much better seal. But it's not like a properly done tile job is going to be leaking like a sieve. Done right there's a good chance neither would be necessary. So the chance of water getting back there, rusting through the staples or screws (which begs the reminder DO NOT USE DRYWALL SCREWS) and then penetrating the framing... well it's not a huge risk IF the tile job is done right.

But in the realm of DIY, where we might not be doing the job often (or even more than once) it's fair to consider some fail-safe additions like membrane or sheeting.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

I am about ready to put the backer up for my shower. I spent the last couple weekends getting the framing, plumbing and electrical all sorted out.

I Have the drywall ceiling up and am ready for the walls. My wife wants to run the tile all the way up to mate with the ceiling, but I have not seen anyone running the Durock up to the ceiling with a Durock/drywal joint at the ceiling joint. I was not sure if I could make this work, or if I should just put a few inches of drywall up near the ceiling, and Durock up to that point. ?

My plan is to use rock-board screws to attach the 1/2" Durock directly to the shower surround wall studs. Then use a water-proofing compound on the joints, screws etc. 

>I am still a little usure if I should coat the entire backer surface with the membrane. ?

>I watched a few nice youtube vids from "TileMasterGa" using a product called Hydro Barrier, and some wide,thin fiberglass tape for all the joints. He claims this blue 'Hydro Barrier' is easier to work with for a diy project. I cannot seem to locate it nearby?

>


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

If you're running tile all the way up just butt that against the drywall. The backer behind won't show. Remember to use caulk along that top joint so you don't have cracking due to grout/drywall shifting.

You generally coat the entire surface of the backer with the membrane. I suppose you could save a bit by not coating all the way up to the ceiling, but you'd certainly want to be above any points that get splashing. Me I did the whole enclosure, with tile on the ceiling. This avoided any issues with moisture condensing on the ceiling and dripping.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

wkearney99 said:


> If you're running tile all the way up just butt that against the drywall. The backer behind won't show. Remember to use caulk along that top joint so you don't have cracking due to grout/drywall shifting.


So you don't see any issues not taping and finishing that joint?

Sounds like you suggest I just run the Durock up to the ceiling and caulk the gap. Is that what your suggesting?


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