# Nail drip edge to fascia on flat roof?



## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

Should the drip edge be secured to the fascia in some fashion? Nail every 16"?

Untitled by Larry Johnson, on Flickr


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

I would say a qualified no.
What is the roofing product? 
1.Did the drip edge get put on over the field product then sealed with a strip of some sort? 
2.Or did the drip edge go on first and the flat product on top? 

In theory high wind could lift the drip and take a roof with it in the case of #2. But in reality on a one or two story residential it is unlikely to happen.


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## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

craig11152 said:


> I would say a qualified no.
> What is the roofing product?
> 1.Did the drip edge get put on over the field product then sealed with a strip of some sort?
> 2.Or did the drip edge go on first and the flat product on top?
> ...


EPDM roof. case 1. Drip edge went on last and was sealed with strip. 

It just looks unfinished not being attached to the fascia.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

No reason to nail it. In fact if it ever gets direct sun the metal wants to expand and contract a bit and it could pull the nails out.


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## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

craig11152 said:


> No reason to nail it. In fact if it ever gets direct sun the metal wants to expand and contract a bit and it could pull the nails out.


Ok then. Thanks.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

No, the drip edge should have a drip with a return hem and be hooked to a continuous cleat which is secured to the fascia. This allows the drip edge to expand and contract in the longitudinal direction. Tying in metal to bituminous materials is a failure point, so you are really better off with internal roof drains, but if you have to use a drip edge, make sure you have enough insulation above the deck to install a tapered edge the falls from about 1.5 inches to zip in about two feet, this way you will not have ponding right at the edge of the roof where your stripping plies are built up. Contrary to what most people will tell you, you do not want to install too many nails in the flange of the metal, and the metal should not be thicker than 24 gage if steel or .032 Aluminum. and NEVER nail through the laps, this creates a rigid column. Nail at about 24 inches on center, thats it. This will allow bowing of the metal just a bit. Metal is going to move faster than asphalt with temp change. that's just physics, and a fact of life. The retainer cleat is a different story. It should have slotted holes and fastened about 8 to 12 inches on center. This is what keeps the wind from peeling off your roof.


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## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

jagans said:


> No, the drip edge should have a drip with a return hem and be hooked to a continuous cleat which is secured to the fascia. This allows the drip edge to expand and contract in the longitudinal direction. Tying in metal to bituminous materials is a failure point, so you are really better off with internal roof drains, but if you have to use a drip edge, make sure you have enough insulation above the deck to install a tapered edge the falls from about 1.5 inches to zip in about two feet, this way you will not have ponding right at the edge of the roof where your stripping plies are built up. Contrary to what most people will tell you, you do not want to install too many nails in the flange of the metal, and the metal should not be thicker than 24 gage if steel or .032 Aluminum. and NEVER nail through the laps, this creates a rigid column. Nail at about 24 inches on center, thats it. This will allow bowing of the metal just a bit. Metal is going to move faster than asphalt with temp change. that's just physics, and a fact of life. The retainer cleat is a different story. It should have slotted holes and fastened about 8 to 12 inches on center. This is what keeps the wind from peeling off your roof.


OK. Care you share a drawing or pic of that. 
You're aware my roof is flat with rubber membrane?


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

LarryJ-nova said:


> OK. Care you share a drawing or pic of that.
> You're aware my roof is flat with rubber membrane?


I wouldn't worry about that sort of detail on a one story residential roof unless your on top of a hill with nothing to break the wind for miles.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

LarryJ-nova said:


> OK. Care you share a drawing or pic of that.
> You're aware my roof is flat with rubber membrane?


No, I did not know you had a "rubber" membrane. Are you referring to EPDM, or SBS Modified Bitumen? Many people confuse the two. Please elaborate. If EPDM, how is it installed? Ballasted, Fully adhered, Mechanically fastened? Who's membrane is it? (MFGR)


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

jagans said:


> No, I did not know you had a "rubber" membrane. Are you referring to EPDM, or SBS Modified Bitumen? Many people confuse the two. Please elaborate. If EPDM, how is it installed? Ballasted, Fully adhered, Mechanically fastened? Who's membrane is it? (MFGR)


try reading the thread. He said it was an EPDM in the 3rd post. It a small residential roof not a million square foot mall.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

craig11152 said:


> try reading the thread. He said it was an EPDM in the 3rd post. It a small residential roof not a million square foot mall.


Sorry Craig, I missed that. You know what? I have been in the field of roofing for about 40 years, and I have never been able to figure out the statement "Its only residential" as if inclement weather sees a house and changes wind speed, direction and intensity based on the type of building it is. There is a right way to do things, and everything else. Metal, depending on weight type and configuration moves based on thermal change. Wind can lift off an unsecured gravel stop edge on a residence just as easily as it can on a commercial building. You are probably right, and he will be fine, but he asked, and I answered based an a hell of a lot of experience. I am attaching firestones edge detail. They do not cover OP metal, and almost no MFGR covers residences, but it just makes sense to do it as they show it in their details, dont you think? I mean, they have been doing this stuff for a while too. 

I hope the image is OK, I see this sight still limits uploads to 100KB and has not listened to any recommendations. 

OP, You can go to Firestone Building Products web sight and drill down to EPDM to see any of their details and download them as pdf's.


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## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

jagans said:


> No, I did not know you had a "rubber" membrane. Are you referring to EPDM, or SBS Modified Bitumen? Many people confuse the two. Please elaborate. If EPDM, how is it installed? Ballasted, Fully adhered, Mechanically fastened? Who's membrane is it? (MFGR)


0.045 EPDM rubber membrane fully adhered. glued down by local installer. I don't know the manufacturer.
It's over a screen porch that's attached to the house. It extends under a row or two of fiberglass shingles on the house.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks. Hopefully, it is adhered to some type of rigid insulation over your roof deck, which I assume is plywood? You could probably get away with some Hex, washer head self tapping screws with EPDM washers in the fascia about 2 feet on center through holes somewhat larger than the shank of the screw, if you do not mind the exposed fasteners. I am sure the length of the metal is not very long at all so expansion/contraction should not be much of a problem, as Craig implied. Wait a couple of months, pressure wash the roof, and roll n a couple of coats of Acrylitop white coating. It will reduce the temp of the membrane (and radiant heat on your porch) minimize movement, and keep the membrane from heat aging. I assume there are no seams on this roof, as it is small. If there is, I would strip in the seams with five or six inch peel and stick after priming. These steps can double or triple the life of your roof. I have a church that was roofed in 1983, the seams were coming apart, and it was adhered right to the plywood deck (No Longer allowed) I stripped in the seams, coated the roof with white acrylitop 60, and it has been going strong ever since. It ponds somewhat, so I re-coat it about every 7 years. The Achilles heel of epdm is the seams, stripping them in basically eliminates T-peel, which is how they generally fail. Especially the ballasted roofs, where all of the stress from shrinkage is at the seams. Good Luck!


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

jagans said:


> Sorry Craig, I missed that. You know what? I have been in the field of roofing for about 40 years, and I have never been able to figure out the statement "Its only residential" as if inclement weather sees a house and changes wind speed, direction and intensity based on the type of building it is. There is a right way to do things, and everything else. Metal, depending on weight type and configuration moves based on thermal change. Wind can lift off an unsecured gravel stop edge on a residence just as easily as it can on a commercial building. You are probably right, and he will be fine, but he asked, and I answered based an a hell of a lot of experience.


My residential point is that in most cases wind is much less sever in a residential area 8 feet off the ground than it might be in a large commercial/industrial building that may be considerably taller than a house or may have very little surrounding terrain/trees/structures to break up the wind. Its not a question of "inclement weather sees a house and changes wind speed, direction and intensity based on the type of building it is" its a question of terrain. I go to a 10 acre dog park 1 mile from my house. That 10 acre dog park sits against a 50 acre closed off land fill. The wind there, one mile from my house is often considerably stiffer than at my house. There is nothing to break the wind at the dog park. At my house I am surrounded by thousands of large trees and hundreds of houses that break the wind. Consequently a sustained 30 mph wind with 50 mph gusts at the dog park is 10 mph winds with 20 mpg gusts at my house. 
As to "There is a right way to do things, and everything else" I don't disagree but I might tweek it to say "There is a manufactures recommenced way, and everything else." Not every variation from a manufacturer recommendation requires a redo. For instance nail placement for shingles. GAF specs a small range for each nail placement. Certainteed, Tamko, Owens Corning and Atlas all show a very specific nail placement. Do you think roofers pull a tape measure out to be sure all their nails are exactly where the manufacturer says? 

I might further ask, since you see a right way and everything else where you got the specs to face screw the drip since it doesn't have the return hem and cleat recommended? 
In any case if he wants to screw the drip edge thats fine but I stand by my statement that it isn't necessary if his house is in a residential neighborhood because the chances of wind sever enough to remove his roof are pretty close to zero.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

craig11152 said:


> My residential point is that in most cases wind is much less sever in a residential area 8 feet off the ground than it might be in a large commercial/industrial building that may be considerably taller than a house or may have very little surrounding terrain/trees/structures to break up the wind. Its not a question of "inclement weather sees a house and changes wind speed, direction and intensity based on the type of building it is" its a question of terrain. I go to a 10 acre dog park 1 mile from my house. That 10 acre dog park sits against a 50 acre closed off land fill. The wind there, one mile from my house is often considerably stiffer than at my house. There is nothing to break the wind at the dog park. At my house I am surrounded by thousands of large trees and hundreds of houses that break the wind. Consequently a sustained 30 mph wind with 50 mph gusts at the dog park is 10 mph winds with 20 mpg gusts at my house.
> As to "There is a right way to do things, and everything else" I don't disagree but I might tweek it to say "There is a manufactures recommenced way, and everything else." Not every variation from a manufacturer recommendation requires a redo. For instance nail placement for shingles. GAF specs a small range for each nail placement. Certainteed, Tamko, Owens Corning and Atlas all show a very specific nail placement. Do you think roofers pull a tape measure out to be sure all their nails are exactly where the manufacturer says?
> 
> I might further ask, since you see a right way and everything else where you got the specs to face screw the drip since it doesn't have the return hem and cleat recommended?
> In any case if he wants to screw the drip edge thats fine but I stand by my statement that it isn't necessary if his house is in a residential neighborhood because the chances of wind sever enough to remove his roof are pretty close to zero.


You are probably correct Craig, since wind speeds for any given area are calculated at 10 meters. What I said about the HWH screws was just a way that he could fasten that skirt if he wanted to. If he does not want to, so be it. As far as nail placement on shingles goes, they have to be placed so as to catch the headlap, some manufacturers have very little latitude, and high nailing can lift the tabs up. It is not my intention to argue with you, and manufacturers do not warrant residential work, nor do they warrant metal made by others anyway, I was just giving an opinion. Thanks for yours.


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## LarryJ-nova (Jul 9, 2013)

Thank you gentlemen.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

The edge should be held down. Aluminum nails, and don't nail tight to the facia and keep them far apart - maybe 8'. I did nail facia aluminum on the gable side and facing south, did not have expansion problem.
The edging can be held down with a strip of metal which is nailed under the edging and then bent up, although that is done before the edging. SS trim screw may work at an angle.


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