# Towards a general theory of gumbo



## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

I've noted and tried a number of gumbo recipes, including some from our esteemed colleagues here.

So, what are the essential ingredients that make gumbo, gumbo?

I'd say:

Smoked meat
celery
okra
Onion
Green pepper.
Thickener ("roux")

The rest you can add as you choose, and I generally tend to add.

Made some gumbo with alligator, rabbit and deer once. And "hot links" for the smoked meat, from a self-described "wild [n-word]" from Morgan City LA.

And many other variations.

So, how about you? And, what do you leave out? And why?


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

Where's the rice and stock?


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

wooleybooger said:


> Where's the rice and stock?


Hmm. Didn't think those were essential. I don't really add liquid, except a bit of water. Might try some chicken stock . . . 

I usually eat it with brown rice when it's served. I've also served it with kasha, cracked wheat, and that crusty Russky style bread.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

So what don't you add?

I put a bunch of spinach in my last batch. 

You'd think I'd peed on the Pietà, dang. Tastes good, though.


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

DoomsDave said:


> Hmm. Didn't think those were essential. I don't really add liquid, except a bit of water. Might try some chicken stock . . .
> 
> I usually eat it with brown rice when it's served. I've also served it with kasha, cracked wheat, and that crusty Russky style bread.


That works also.


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

Trinity, meat or seafood, stock rice, okra for a thickener. Cook until thickened.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

wooleybooger said:


> Trinity, meat or seafood, stock rice, okra for a thickener. Cook until thickened.


Hmm. Might have to try your recipe!

I use both okra and "roasted flour" in olive oil thickener. Good.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I like a gumbo over rice if it has been thickened with a roux, okra is a non starter for me. I have lived in the the south for 20+ years and never developed a taste for okra. I think you have to be force fed it as a child to eat it as an adult.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

rjniles said:


> I like a gumbo over rice if it has been thickened with a roux, okra is a non starter for me. I have lived in the the south for 20+ years and never developed a taste for okra. I think you have to be force fed it as a child to eat it as an adult.


Hmm. 

I'm as southern as . . . DT, or Mayor Daley, or Mario Cuomo, and I love okra in gumbo. It gives it that special taste, though I think the roux is more important.


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

Roux = Cajun napalm.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Ah, @wooleybooger and @rjniles thanks so much for your educational posts!

So much for religion in gumbo. There's already a major schism . . . 

Hmm. Might post a recipe, and pictures.

Meantime, pile on!


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

DoomsDave said:


> Hmm. Didn't think those were essential. I don't really add liquid, except a bit of water. Might try some chicken stock . . .
> I usually eat it with brown rice when it's served. I've also served it with kasha, cracked wheat, and that crusty Russky style bread.


How does one make a gumbo and not add some kind of liquid? Personally I use chicken stock or water. I mean its like making soup without some kind of liquid. It cannot be done.



wooleybooger said:


> Trinity, meat or seafood, stock rice, okra for a thickener. Cook until thickened.


Okra for the taste and beautiful appearance, roux is for the thickener. In fact you make the roux before you do anything else. You decide how dark you want it to be. I go with a tan color that is perfect for the gumbo.
Of course we must utilize the trinity. It is key after all.
Always make roux, then saute the trinity in it before adding the liquid. In that order. Roux, trinity, liquid.



DoomsDave said:


> Hmm.
> I'm as southern as . . . DT, or Mayor Daley, or Mario Cuomo, and I love okra in gumbo. It gives it that special taste, though I think the roux is more important.


You need both in gumbo. Without making the traditional roux, you are not making traditional gumbo. Okra is a favoraite of mine and have never even considered it as the the thickener?


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

J. V. said:


> How does one make a gumbo and not add some kind of liquid? Personally I use chicken stock or water. I mean its like making soup without some kind of liquid. It cannot be done.
> 
> 
> Okra for the taste and beautiful appearance, roux is for the thickener. In fact you make the roux before you do anything else. You decide how dark you want it to be. I go with a tan color that is perfect for the gumbo.
> ...


I get most of the liquid from vegetables that give up theirs.

I also add tomatoes, which are quite watery. If I have any liquid, I add water at the very end.

But! Chicken stock sounds good, too. 

Interesting!

I cook everything and add the thickener last, at the very end.

Ah, the Holy Church of Gumbo, many codas . . .


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Gumbo starts with a roux. Then the aromatics (trinity) is sauteed in the roux. Then liquid is added. After that the sky is the limit on what can be added to the gumbo. I like andouille sausage or other smoked sausage. I also like shrimp in it and or crawdaddie (mud bugs) tails. Okra is a must for me and I like them to hold their shape. So they go in with the sausage and seafood. Filé powder is also a traditional ingredient if you can find it.

This is for a traditional gumbo.
Variatons do exist. But IMO the roux made at the start is key to traditional gumbo. It is the base for all that follows.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jun 15, 2018)

if I were to ever make a pot of Gumbo (or Jambalaya), I would cruise the many videos 
on YT of Phil Robertson and Miss Kay of The Duck Dynasty and use that as a starting point.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Hmm.

Sounds like there's about to be a HGI

Holy Gumbo Inquisition . . . .


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

All well and good but I see an omission and it is a glaring one. What about seasoning? I season a la Chef Paul Prudhomme which of course varies depending on what is in the gumbo.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

wooleybooger said:


> All well and good but I see an omission and it is a glaring one. What about seasoning? I season a la Chef Paul Prudhomme which of course varies depending on what is in the gumbo.


I just use salt, pepper, and a bit of jalepeno.

The anduille sausage is seasoned perfectly well, or the tasso, and the nice flavors of the other ingredients just blend.

So, what would you use for: shrimp, chicken, ahi tuna, and crab meat? As opposed to alligator, deer, and rabbit?

And, I never EVER use sugar.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I have a great recipe from a friend that went to New Orleans with a church group to help clean up after I think it was Katrina.

I made it once and it took me forever but I guess any vegetable type soup takes a long time with all that cleaning and chopping.

everyone loved it but I never made it again. The sausage was the hot Andouille then I had a lot of shrimp in it which had to be cleaned (and that’s a chore) it had okra in it but also at the end I’d bought a little jar of Filè and added a little then never used it again.

We used to go up to the panhandle and Alabama and I ordered gumbo every day,


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

DoomsDave said:


> I just use salt, pepper, and a bit of jalepeno.
> 
> The anduille sausage is seasoned perfectly well, or the tasso, and the nice flavors of the other ingredients just blend.
> 
> ...


For those I'd likely use salt, white and black pepper and cayenne pepper, with the chicken maybe thyme and oregano or marjoram. I agree on the sugar, NEVER. (_this place really needs a slappy thingy)_ Might even throw in some tasso if I can get it. Never seen it here though I have to go to Louisiana for that.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Startingover said:


> I have a great recipe from a friend that went to New Orleans with a church group to help clean up after I think it was Katrina.
> 
> I made it once and it took me forever but I guess any vegetable type soup takes a long time with all that cleaning and chopping.
> 
> ...


Great attention to spelling! 😄


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Good article -









What Is the Cajun Trinity, and How Is It Used?


Cajun trinity is a Cajun and Creole flavor base made of onion, celery, and bell pepper. It is used for stocks, sauces, soups, stews, and casseroles.




www.thespruceeats.com


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

wooleybooger said:


> All well and good but I see an omission and it is a glaring one. What about seasoning? I season a la Chef Paul Prudhomme which of course varies depending on what is in the gumbo.


I make my own Creole seasoning. However its not required for gumbo. The traditional ingredients and the Filo powder are really all you need. But yes I like Creole seasoning.
I stole the ingredient list from Emeril Lagasse. Has several spices and herbs and you need to have all on hand, but its very good and I make it by the quart. I put what I can fit into a Costco sized spice container (in fridge) with shaker top and the remaining goes into the freezer. I keep all spices in the fridge.
It really is a simple mix. Just Google Emeril Essence.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

J. V. said:


> I make my own Creole seasoning. However its not required for gumbo. The traditional ingredients and the Filo powder are really all you need. But yes I like Creole seasoning.
> I stole the ingredient list from Emeril Lagasse. Has several spices and herbs and you need to have all on hand, but its very good and I make it by the quart. I put what I can fit into a Costco sized spice container (in fridge) with shaker top and the remaining goes into the freezer. I keep all spices in the fridge.
> It really is a simple mix. Just Google Emeril Essence.


Sounds a lot like DoomsDave's Sacrilegious Seasoning Mix, more or less, though his is a lot saltier.

Emeril's Essence Creole Seasoning | Emerils.com


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## Patrick_Shay (Apr 11, 2021)

J. V. said:


> I make my own Creole seasoning. However its not required for gumbo. The traditional ingredients and the Filo powder are really all you need. But yes I like Creole seasoning.
> I stole the ingredient list from Emeril Lagasse. Has several spices and herbs and you need to have all on hand, but its very good and I make it by the quart. I put what I can fit into a Costco sized spice container (in fridge) with shaker top and the remaining goes into the freezer. I keep all spices in the fridge.
> It really is a simple mix. Just Google Emeril Essence.


I'm also an Emeril fan. I'm from Boston, like him, but I'm also Cajun so I like to think I know about gumbo. Emeril was the chef at the legendary Commanders Palace so I know he knows about gumbo as well. I like his essence, great seasoning. As for the question of okra in gumbo it is certainly not a requirement. If you don't like it don't add it, that simple. I leave it out of mine - the black sheep of the family . For me a gumbo needs roux (please don't use store bought) and the trinity. The rest is up to you. I doubt you will find any two families in Louisiana who make gumbo the same way. In fact, no one in my family makes the same gumbo. Hot sauce is critical for gumbo, in my opinion. I prefer Tabasco. Laissez les bon temps rouler (let the good times roll).


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Patrick_Shay said:


> I'm also an Emeril fan. I'm from Boston, like him, but I'm also Cajun so I like to think I know about gumbo. Emeril was the chef at the legendary Commanders Palace so I know he knows about gumbo as well. I like his essence, great seasoning. As for the question of okra in gumbo it is certainly not a requirement. If you don't like it don't add it, that simple. I leave it out of mine - the black sheep of the family . For me a gumbo needs roux (please don't use store bought) and the trinity. The rest is up to you. I doubt you will find any two families in Louisiana who make gumbo the same way. In fact, no one in my family makes the same gumbo. Hot sauce is critical for gumbo, in my opinion. I prefer Tabasco. Laissez les bon temps rouler (let the good times roll).


So what is the roux?


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## Patrick_Shay (Apr 11, 2021)

DoomsDave said:


> So what is the roux?


Simply a 1:1 ratio of flour to vegetable oil. I mix it for about 30 minutes in my cast iron dutch oven. I like a dark roux - more flavor. Some people hate making roux as it can be tedious but it reminds me of my grandfather and it is meditative. Think I need to break out the cast iron this weekend. I'm getting hungry.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Patrick_Shay said:


> Simply a 1:1 ratio of flour to vegetable oil. I mix it for about 30 minutes in my cast iron dutch oven. I like a dark roux - more flavor. Some people hate making roux as it can be tedious but it reminds me of my grandfather and it is meditative. Think I need to break out the cast iron this weekend. I'm getting hungry.


Muchas gracias!

Wanna be sure we're on the same page . . .


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

It sounds like the roux *was* mainly made from butter & flour. Read that previous link, it has a lot of history.

"The fat is most often butter in French cuisine, but may be lard or vegetable oil in other cuisines. Roux is used in three of the five mother sauces of classical French cooking: béchamel sauce, velouté sauce, and espagnole sauce.
In Cajun cuisine, roux is made with bacon fat or oil instead of butter and cooked to a medium or dark brown color, which lends much richness of flavor, but makes it thinner.
Central European cuisine often uses lard (in its rendered form) or more recently vegetable oil instead of butter for the preparation of roux, which is called _zápražka_ in Slovak, _jíška_ in Czech, _zasmażka_ in Polish, _zaprška_ (запршка) in Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, and Macedonian, _zaprazhka_ (запръжка) in Bulgarian, _rántás_ in Hungarian and _Mehlschwitze_ in German.
Japanese curry, or _karē_ (カレー), is made from a roux made by frying yellow curry powder, butter or oil, and flour together. The French term _roux_ has become a loanword in Japanese, _rū_ (ルー), or more specifically _karērū_ (カレールー, curry roux).
Roux (_meyane_[3]) has been used in Ottoman and Turkish cuisine since at least the 15th century.[4]" Wikipedia

It does sound like it's most important in Louisiana, though.


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

J. V. said:


> I make my own Creole seasoning. However its not required for gumbo. The traditional ingredients and the Filo powder are really all you need. But yes I like Creole seasoning.
> I stole the ingredient list from Emeril Lagasse. Has several spices and herbs and you need to have all on hand, but its very good and I make it by the quart. I put what I can fit into a Costco sized spice container (in fridge) with shaker top and the remaining goes into the freezer. I keep all spices in the fridge.
> It really is a simple mix. Just Google Emeril Essence.





DoomsDave said:


> Sounds a lot like DoomsDave's Sacrilegious Seasoning Mix, more or less, though his is a lot saltier.
> 
> Emeril's Essence Creole Seasoning | Emerils.com





Patrick_Shay said:


> I'm also an Emeril fan. I'm from Boston, like him, but I'm also Cajun so I like to think I know about gumbo. Emeril was the chef at the legendary Commanders Palace so I know he knows about gumbo as well. I like his essence, great seasoning. As for the question of okra in gumbo it is certainly not a requirement. If you don't like it don't add it, that simple. I leave it out of mine - the black sheep of the family . For me a gumbo needs roux (please don't use store bought) and the trinity. The rest is up to you. I doubt you will find any two families in Louisiana who make gumbo the same way. In fact, no one in my family makes the same gumbo. Hot sauce is critical for gumbo, in my opinion. I prefer Tabasco. Laissez les bon temps rouler (let the good times roll).


I don't know the age of either Chef and I'm an Emeril fan also. Personally I think Emeril has based his stuff on Chef Paul.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Although I heard about it in the Hank Williams song "Jambalaya", I had no idea what Filè is. According to Wikipedia it's ground sassafras leaves and was used as a thickener when okra wasn't in season. Sassafras tea was a treat when I was young.

Justin Wilson's cooking shows were a favorite.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Patrick_Shay said:


> I'm also an Emeril fan. I'm from Boston, like him, but I'm also Cajun so I like to think I know about gumbo. Emeril was the chef at the legendary Commanders Palace so I know he knows about gumbo as well. I like his essence, great seasoning. As for the question of okra in gumbo it is certainly not a requirement. If you don't like it don't add it, that simple. I leave it out of mine - the black sheep of the family . For me a gumbo needs roux (please don't use store bought) and the trinity. The rest is up to you. I doubt you will find any two families in Louisiana who make gumbo the same way. In fact, no one in my family makes the same gumbo. Hot sauce is critical for gumbo, in my opinion. I prefer Tabasco. Laissez les bon temps rouler (let the good times roll).


Yea, I mean the roux is the base for gumbo. There is much to be said about tending a large cast iron pot with oil and flour in it. I like mine not to dark. And I think the sauteing of the trinity in it to be key.
And yes, I agree. Once your roux and trinity are ready, add most anything you like. I a firm believer in adding food as to there cooking time. So the okra before the shrimp as an example.
Tabasco is way to hot for me. I could use it for its taste though. Usually I add a little bit of ground cayenne while I'm sauteing the trinity. This way the family can add some hot sauce at the table. I keep Franks, Crystal and Tabasco on hand at all times. Crystal is excellent as are the other 2.



DoomsDave said:


> So what is the roux?


Dave, a roux is the base for a gumbo and other Louisiana inspired dishes. Its a fat of some sort with flour in equal parts.
You will need a recipe but I can give you a basic idea.
Allow 1 cup of oil to warm up in the pot and add 1 cup flour. On medium to low heat cook the roux until it reaches the color you want. You then add your aromatics (Trinity) to the roux and cook this until the trinity gets a little soft.
You can then add your liquid of choice along with anything else you like. I like chicken stock or shrimp stock for gumbo as I put seafood in the gumbo. Even water is fine. Just season it.
You will not need to do any thickening as you have already addressed it. Do not over cook the gumbo. Cook long enough for the ingredients to be tender and to your liking.
Serve over rice.


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