# Pergo XP Water Test



## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

There are some click and lock vinyls that claim to be 100% waterproof but I have no experience with same. That said, what happens to a plate dropped on tile is the same as what happens when you drop it on wood. Breaks. Ron


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

water damage is only part of it.

take 2 boxs, assemble them on your floor. then set a wheeled office chair on it. sit in the chair and roll it around. did it do any damage ? i did this to a few floorings. 1 of them, the wheels left ruts deep enough to flow water.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Julie..... Interesting test and inquiry.....

I too have original Pergo in a bar/game room from mid 1990's and it still looks new.... after many kids/parties/beer kegs. I call the TnG a "glue up".

I can't believe a click lock assembly would not leak and deteriorate in any potential wet environment eventually.

Some click lock has a waxy click lock assembly (to prevent squuek) that may be repelling water for a short time. I just don't think over time it would not be affected by potential kitchen moisture.

Just my guess....

They must still make a TnG glue up in a good laminate... don't they?

I haven't looked for one in a long time.

Best


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## JulieMor (Apr 25, 2012)

ront02769 said:


> That said, what happens to a plate dropped on tile is the same as what happens when you drop it on wood. Breaks. Ron


Yes, but when plates and glasses break on a tile floor, they shatter into pieces as small as slivers, a nightmare to clean up. That's a big reason why we never put tile on the kitchen floor. 



Fix'n it said:


> water damage is only part of it.
> 
> take 2 boxs, assemble them on your floor. then set a wheeled office chair on it. sit in the chair and roll it around. did it do any damage ? i did this to a few floorings. 1 of them, the wheels left ruts deep enough to flow water.


We have the old Pergo in our study too. We have two desks with computers in there and both desks have wheeled chairs. After maybe 10 years, I saw some wear under one of the chairs so I put floor protectors down. 

But I hadn't even considered what would happen to the XP because we don't have wheeled chairs but we do have a small rolling island that leaves dents in the vinyl floor. I never considered dents forming in the XP. I'll have to test it under the wheels of the island and see how it holds up. 



MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Julie..... Interesting test and inquiry.....
> 
> I too have original Pergo in a bar/game room from mid 1990's and it still looks new.... after many kids/parties/beer kegs. I call the TnG a "glue up".
> 
> ...


I haven't seen the glue-up flooring at the usual home centers. They may have discontinued it because installing it is too much work and ease of installation sells better than durability. Not that Pergo today compares their old glue-up to their new click and lock. That would just invite criticism.

Good points made here. :thumbup: We'll have to also take these things into consideration. Thanks!

Julie


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> I haven't seen the glue-up flooring at the usual home centers. They may have discontinued it because installing it is too much work and ease of installation sells better than durability. Not that Pergo today compares their old glue-up to their new click and lock. That would just invite criticism.
> 
> Good points made here. :thumbup: We'll have to also take these things into consideration. Thanks!
> 
> Julie


Julie... Curiously, about a year ago I installed a "glue up" (TnG glued together) eng hardwood.

Had a little trouble finding it... not available at the big boxers... had to go to a flooring supplier.

(The issue with this install was not moisture potential, but rather a non-flat concrete floor. Could not grind it or Ardex it flat (or a glue down)because of previous black residue/cutback potential asbestos. So went with alot of felt filler and a sturdy "glue-up" assembly)

Yes... that glue-up is alot more work.... but I think provides a far superior install than a floating click-lock.

Good luck

Best

Peter


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## seephor (Mar 9, 2014)

Am I the only one who would not suggesting any natural wood flooring products be used in the kitchen? Kitchens are high traffic areas by default, you have moisture potential everywhere. Any natural wood product would get beat up quickly. I personally suggest tile for kitchens. If you want the wood look, think about plank style tiles with wood texture

Engineered wood flooring Is still wood. It provides more general stability and moisture resistance but at the end of the day, the product is as tough as what it is, wood.

I think you're putting too much negative weight on the potential of a cracked tile from something being dropped on it. We've had ceramic tile in the kitchen for 10 years and I can count only a handful of times glassware has dropped on it and the glassware has always lost the battle with the floor so far.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

seephor said:


> Am I the only one who would not suggesting any natural wood flooring products be used in the kitchen? Kitchens are high traffic areas by default, you have moisture potential everywhere. Any natural wood product would get beat up quickly. I personally suggest tile for kitchens. If you want the wood look, think about plank style tiles with wood texture
> 
> Engineered wood flooring Is still wood. It provides more general stability and moisture resistance but at the end of the day, the product is as tough as what it is, wood.
> 
> I think you're putting too much negative weight on the potential of a cracked tile from something being dropped on it. We've had ceramic tile in the kitchen for 10 years and I can count only a handful of times glassware has dropped on it and the glassware has always lost the battle with the floor so far.


 Nope. I too would prefer a ceramic tile floor in a kitchen.
My next choice would likely be a quality vinyl tile or vinyl plank floor.

I believe this thread is more about how well the Pergo product is holding up in these areas though rather than the negatives?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

seephor said:


> *Am I the only one who would not suggesting any natural wood flooring products be used in the kitchen?* .


I understand your technical point/opinion...... but I think aesthetics trump maintenance in higher end homes.

I'll bet better than 75% homes in this area have natural hardwood.... and consequent resanding/refinishing issues.

I would not recommend the eng hardwoods... for their lack of refinishing options.

Best

(PS: I have tile)


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## mgp roofing (Aug 15, 2011)

I have seen a click-loc engeneered hardwood floor that was glued together, originally because the click-together joints began to fail under heavy use (kendo dojo floor) It lasted 10 years or so before any issues showed up (splitting of the MDF and subsequent splintering of the hardwood veneer) primarily because of subfloor dips and humps combined with the heavy traffic & impacts the floor was subject to. However, it is still in service, and has shown no issues from standing water on the surface from roof leaks, spills etc. Only water damage I saw was from a leaking fridge, I assume the water gor under the floor at the edge in that case.


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## JulieMor (Apr 25, 2012)

seephor said:


> Am I the only one who would not suggesting any natural wood flooring products be used in the kitchen? Kitchens are high traffic areas by default, you have moisture potential everywhere. Any natural wood product would get beat up quickly. I personally suggest tile for kitchens. If you want the wood look, think about plank style tiles with wood texture
> 
> Engineered wood flooring Is still wood. It provides more general stability and moisture resistance but at the end of the day, the product is as tough as what it is, wood.
> 
> I think you're putting too much negative weight on the potential of a cracked tile from something being dropped on it. We've had ceramic tile in the kitchen for 10 years and I can count only a handful of times glassware has dropped on it and the glassware has always lost the battle with the floor so far.


My issue with tile isn't that the tile would be damaged but that glass products dropped on it would shatter, some into tiny slivers that end up in the little feet of children... or barefoot adults. Even after a thorough cleaning, tiny slivers can be missed. And they always seem to find bare feet.

As to the durability of the original Pergo, that stuff is virtually bulletproof. It's been in high traffic areas of our home for almost 20 years and has endured everything kids, animals, you name it, have thrown at it and it still looks new. Ceramic chips. The grout collects dirt. Tile may hold up well to water and wear-and-tear but it has its down sides.

I do agree with what you said in regards to natural wood flooring not being a good choice in high traffic areas. And the engineered products I see today don't look all that much better. If I could find it, I'd install the original Pergo in the kitchen without hesitation. I'm just not that confident about the new stuff.

Anyway, I did the pressure test by putting our kitchen cart on pieces of the Pergo XP. After two days I saw no sign of any sort of impression on the XP. But the issue of water damage is still unresolved for me. It's just hard for me to believe click and lock joints keep water out, even though that's what I saw. I'm doing more tests. 

BTW, I'm also doing water tests on Pergo Presto. It looks like that could be glued but the joint isn't the best for gluing. The voids would probably allow too much glue to seep out of the top joint. Acrylic sealant would work but that would be messy.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

I would have to think a real hardwood floor is better for high traffic areas than an engineered wood floor. The surface of both are identical but the veneered plywood isn't really thick enough to have refinished.

So they will both wear identically, but one will be refinished and the other ripped up and replaced.

Best I can tell, out of the "wood looking floors" laminate is the best for high traffic as long as its a fairly dry environment, especially AC4 and AC5 rated floors. If they make ceramic wood looking floors those are likely even better but I haven't seen one yet.

Now maybe they have prefinished wood floors and or engineered wood floors that have a wear layer as durable as a AC4 or AC5 rated laminate and I just don't know it. I assume all of them are just typical finished wood with lacquer or polyurethane.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

I was in the same situation as you. I loved my wilsonart laminate glue together floor. Held up wonderful. Ended up going with a glue together bamboo floor. I looked at several samples until I found one with the hardest finish I could find. It was the fossilized stranded cali-bamboo. After a year, it's held up pretty good with 2 very active labs running across it, but not as good as the laminate did. When I was shopping for new laminate, I mentioned putting it in the kitchen/dining/hall and half bath and nobody recommended I use it because if it got wet, it would swell up. I told them about my 20 year old laminate, and how I would take windex, spray it all over the floor right from the sprayer and swifter it. They were shocked and said you can't spray anything like that to clean it now. If I had to do it over again, I would keep shopping for laminate. There's nothing else that's tough enough with large pets. I would keep looking for a tongue and groove and see about glueing it together like the old style.


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## JulieMor (Apr 25, 2012)

taylorjm said:


> I was in the same situation as you. I loved my wilsonart laminate glue together floor. Held up wonderful. Ended up going with a glue together bamboo floor. I looked at several samples until I found one with the hardest finish I could find. It was the fossilized stranded cali-bamboo. After a year, it's held up pretty good with 2 very active labs running across it, but not as good as the laminate did. When I was shopping for new laminate, I mentioned putting it in the kitchen/dining/hall and half bath and nobody recommended I use it because if it got wet, it would swell up. I told them about my 20 year old laminate, and how I would take windex, spray it all over the floor right from the sprayer and swifter it. They were shocked and said you can't spray anything like that to clean it now. If I had to do it over again, I would keep shopping for laminate. There's nothing else that's tough enough with large pets. I would keep looking for a tongue and groove and see about glueing it together like the old style.


Before the original Pergo was installed, the first floor was carpet. The kids used to chase the dogs around and when hitting the corners, the dogs dug their claws into the carpet to make the turn. After the Pergo went down, the kids continued to chase the dogs and when they came to the corners, those claws were no help and they kept going, straight into the wall! But there wasn't any sign of even the slightest scratch. This went on for years, until either the kids or the dogs got too old for the chase game. The Pergo never showed any signs of wear.

I did another overnight water test on both the XP and Presto. Neither absorbed any water, that I could tell. Both have an MDF-like substrate so water would be a big problem if it soaked in. But I didn't see any sign of it. Even though all evidence so far is to the contrary, I still can't accept the click and lock is impervious to standing water.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

I agree. I think the only thing that saved our original wilsonart floors was the fact that it was glued together, and the glue squeezed out of the seams and had to be wiped off when installing, so it definitely had a barrier.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

taylorjm said:


> I agree. I think the only thing that saved our original wilsonart floors was the fact that it was glued together, and the glue squeezed out of the seams and had to be wiped off when installing, so it definitely had a barrier.



I'm about to do an Armstrong click lock laminate floor using glue. They claim it can even be used in a bathroom if done this way, though I'm using it in our livingroom.

I'm wondering how much of a major PITA the glue is going to be though. It's glue made by Armstrong just for this.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

It's usually just a glorified elmers glue. Just keep a damp washcloth handy to wipe it up and you'll be fine.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

taylorjm said:


> It's usually just a glorified elmers glue. Just keep a damp washcloth handy to wipe it up and you'll be fine.



Good to know.
Do the planks usually stay put once they snap together? I think that's my biggest concern, is gluing them on the ends, and then them popping apart while I'm having fun down the line.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

I've only glued together tongue and groove, so I don't know what's going to happen when you glue the click lock.


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## JulieMor (Apr 25, 2012)

I don't know how effective gluing click and lock will be. There's a void in the joint that the glue could settle into, leaving little if anything at the contact points. Original Pergo had a tight T&G profile that required only a small bead of glue. Then you tapped it into place and either left it or clamped it with ratchet clamps and cleaned up the squeeze out. I did the latter. 







It took me a month to do the first floor but it was worth it.

I did the final test on the Pergo XP and dropped a piece in a bowl of water. I pushed it down so the entire surface was wetted and let it sit, face down, for several hours. When I removed it, I saw a slight bit of swelling on the cut ends but the joints looked unaffected. They must have sealed the joints to make them waterproof. I can't be a doubter any longer.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> I don't know how effective gluing click and lock will be. There's a void in the joint that the glue could settle into, leaving little if anything at the contact points. Original Pergo had a tight T&G profile that required only a small bead of glue. Then you tapped it into place and either left it or clamped it with ratchet clamps and cleaned up the squeeze out. I did the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Keep in mind, it's not my idea to glue it, it's Armstrong's idea.
They say to put a 3/32" bead of glue along the top of the tongue and only the tongue. When this gets pushed in it causes the glue to ooze up into the joint between the two pieces, no where else. I guess this is what makes the seal.

I decided to go with an Armstrong floor being I have to assume they are better than anything Lowes or Homer sells and at $3.79 a sqft + padding I have to assume it's somewhat decent.


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## mnp13 (Jan 16, 2007)

My parents installed a wood floor in their kitchen in 1978. It's still there, and it's fine. No more or less worn than any other floor in the house. Three kids, two parents, five dogs and a cat have all beat the heck out of it. With the occasional dishwasher flood, sink over flow and a zillion pet accidents.


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## JulieMor (Apr 25, 2012)

After wrangling about which type flooring to install, I made the executive decision and bought Pergo XP in Hawaiian Koa. I started demoing the old flooring about noon and finished installing the last piece of Pergo about noon the next day, with a lot of breaks in between. It's a senior citizen thing. :laughing:









The vinyl sheet flooring torn up except for what was glued down.









All of the flooring and underlayment removed.









Flooring finished.​
I just have to finish installing the wall base under the cabinets, some wood baseboard around the doors and the transition strips at the door openings. This was about as easy as it gets.

*One warning though* - DON'T use an expensive carbide bit to cut the flooring! I have a Forrest Chopmaster in my miter saw and I thought it could handle it. I was WRONG! The first wood cut I made after the flooring was done burned the wood. I could barely get the blade through. Fortunately I have a spare but I'll have to send the dull blade back to Forrest for resharpening.

Oh yeah, I've got to finish the drawers for the cooktop cabinet too. I've got the boxes and fronts made but I have to put a finish on the boxes.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Loks great:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

:thumbup: :yes:


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## razorbak57 (Jul 18, 2014)

Beautiful floor!


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