# Seeking wisdom for small drywall fix



## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

Hello all 

I was wondering if some of you experienced folk could weigh in with your opinions on a pickle I'm in.

A while ago, I noticed the paint between our bathtub and wall starting to bubble and peel. Turns out a small amount of water had been getting between the silicon sealant and getting into the drywall. 

I cut around the peeling paint and lifted it up. There is only a small damp patch in the dry wall which you can see as a dark area (just above the bathtub) in this quick 2 minute video which you can see here: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71iEyX0GfYc

If you have any recommendations on steps to take to fix this I would appreciate it greatly because I'm not a very handy guy! 

Thanks in advance if you can help me. :thumbup:


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## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

Wow, shoot the person that built that. I can't beleive people put sheetrock against the tub like that. I'm curious if there is sheetrock behind that plastic wall too, and what condition its in. 

I really can't see an easy fix for you. Well I can, but this will keep happening again. 

It looks like mold on the sheetrock too. 

I will suggest you take a sheetrock saw and open up that peice that you cut the paint off. Check the damage behind the sheetrock, and behind the tub. 

No easy solution can make this right. 

Anyone else want to help out here?


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## Bldg 2 Spec (Jun 22, 2010)

chillpill said:


> Hello all
> 
> I was wondering if some of you experienced folk could weigh in with your opinions on a pickle I'm in.
> 
> ...


Beyond cutting out all of the damaged drywall (for mold removal, doing a proper job and finding the source. Which you may require a contractor to do).

If I was doing my bathroom I would cut out the affected damage.

Place strapping behind location that I want to place new G.W.B. (KEEP IT 1/4 OFF THE FLOOR G.W.B./STRAPPING)

Replace G.W.B. w/ water resistant G.W.B. or Durock cement board (cement board is a better product). If the drywall is touching the tub flange I may have a bigger mositure problem & this may require replacing the whole wall w/ new G.W.B. or cement board and reinstalling the PVC panels.

Leave 1/4" space around G.W.B. and the tub and 1/4" off the floor (to prevent capillary action from happening.

Cut V small groove @ butt joints in G.W.B.

Fiberglass tape butt joints

Carefully use Durabond 90 w/ (Mixed to have a playdough like consistancy)

Place over the fiberglass tape (don't fill the gaps @ tub & make sure it just covers the tape) and ensure the surface is smooth because when this stuff hardens I'm gonna have a wicked time sanding it.

Finish wall with normal compound using a 10" knife (spreading the compund 10"++ after butt joint makes it less noticable)

Sand @ paint w/ moisture resistant paint.

Remove caulk joint off tub/ surround flange & joint @ G.W.B. (flat razor or caulk tool) and take care to not damage the PVC surround

1-2" (painters) Tape the tub where I want the new caulk to go 1/8" - 1/4" @ joint (both surfaces where the culk is going to touch)

Obtain a box of disposable cheap gloves

Caulk joint with caulk gun 1/8" carefully place bead around surround and G.W.B.

When done put on gloves and use finger in v groove (tub and wall)to make carefully smooth the professional caulk job. When I have too much caulk on my finger turn glove inside out and put on new ones. Ensure there is a minimal amount of caulk on the tape (because when I pull the tape up and there is too much caulk, it will reck the nice smooth caulk job I made w/ a ridge from the tape)

Caulk the Gap @ the G.W.B./Tub & Floor

Remove painters tape right away producing my skilled work & let dry for 48 hrs

This should give you an idea. However keep in mind that your taps may or may not be leaking fluids behind your surround. (note: newer faucets have a drain @ the bottom of the trim pieces and this should never be caulked. 

I would use my information as a hint not advice on how I would do my own surround. Your situation may vary. When in doubt contact a local contractor to investigate the situation. Mold is a dangerous substance and may pose health risks. As always wear all proper health and safety gear reccomended from manufacturers and read all instructions on the products.

:thumbsup:


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## Bldg 2 Spec (Jun 22, 2010)

Also just another FYI failure to correct mould growth behind surround will result in it coming back (VIA caulk). This would indicate more mold growth than you were aware of.


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

Wow, thanks so much for the comments. I'm at work right now and will review in earnest when I get home. 

Cheers!


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

slickgt1 said:


> Wow, shoot the person that built that. I can't beleive people put sheetrock against the tub like that. I'm curious if there is sheetrock behind that plastic wall too, and what condition its in.
> 
> Anyone else want to help out here?


Totally. This place has been revealing a ton of cut corners and cheap solutions. It's been a great place to learn about the wrong and right way to do things. :laughing:


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

slickgt1 said:


> Wow, shoot the person that built that. I can't beleive people put sheetrock against the tub like that. I'm curious if there is sheetrock behind that plastic wall too, and what condition its in.
> 
> I really can't see an easy fix for you. Well I can, but this will keep happening again.
> 
> ...



Cool, I just learned about multiquote 

OK I like your suggestion but what / how to deal with getting in behind that waterproof panel on the wall (sorry, not sure what that is called)? 




Bldg 2 Spec said:


> Beyond cutting out all of the damaged drywall (for mold removal, doing a proper job and finding the source. Which you may require a contractor to do).
> 
> If I was doing my bathroom I would cut out the affected damage.


OK. I guess same question for you Bldg. How would you deal with checking for damage and/or cutting out/fixing behind that water proof panel? :-|



> Place strapping behind location that I want to place new G.W.B. (KEEP IT 1/4 OFF THE FLOOR G.W.B./STRAPPING)


Sorry I need to check in on some acronyms and terms please. What is G.W.B and STRAPPING?



> Replace G.W.B. w/ water resistant G.W.B. or Durock cement board (cement board is a better product). If the drywall is touching the tub flange I may have a bigger mositure problem & this may require replacing the whole wall w/ new G.W.B. or cement board and reinstalling the PVC panels.
> 
> Leave 1/4" space around G.W.B. and the tub and 1/4" off the floor (to prevent capillary action from happening.
> 
> ...


 I will poke around and see if I can find some video tutorials/links on some of these steps as some of them I have never heard of or attempted. If you have any links to good vids pls fire away! 



> I would use my information as a hint not advice on how I would do my own surround. Your situation may vary. When in doubt contact a local contractor to investigate the situation. Mold is a dangerous substance and may pose health risks. As always wear all proper health and safety gear reccomended from manufacturers and read all instructions on the products.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Thanks so much for your generous reply and taking the time to post. 

:thumbup:

Peace.


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## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

If you are going to be serious about doing this correctly, cut out that rock that you removed the bubbling paint from, and take some pics. We really need to see what is the damage, and what you have to work with behind that. Remember you are cutting a hole into sheetrock, don't be cheap, cut a nice section out, 4' high, and between the vertical studs. It really won't matter if you cut a little hole or a big hole, you're going to need to replace whatever you cut out anyway, so a big hole will be easier to work with. Try to make the cuts as straight as possible to make installation of new Durock simpler.


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## Bldg 2 Spec (Jun 22, 2010)

Honestly if you start pulling the PVC off the shower stall you might as well replace all the G.W.B. or better yet consider upgrading to cement board.

(please note cement board is extremely toxic if cut (dust) and can cause death. Read all manf. directions as you will need a cement blade and use the proper side, of the Durock, for adhesive applications). 

My experience is that if you cut pieces of G.W.B. they end up rotting @ the joints and cleaning up butt joints (on tile applications) will require Durabond 90. Again keep in mind how I tackled the replacement G.W.B. and or Durock Cement board.

If I was to just replace the affected area I would cut 12" wide all along where I saw any damage. I would be careful of other services in the wall. I'd score the G.W.B. and tap the G.W.B. lightly (enough to make a hole) w/ a hammer and snap the G.W.B. backwards (with my hand) and score the paper (on the back side of the G.W.B.). SLICK is also correct in the fact that, yeah your gonna have to buy a sheet of G.W.B., (however cement board is 60"x32") if you use G.W.B. I would go from floor to ceiling (easier to mud 1 butt joint and fix corner @ top of wall)

For investigative work I would poke a small hole in my wall on the opposite side of the faucets carefully as their is plumbing in that area (keep in mind we don't know what your walls are made out of be careful as they could be toxic. Ask your local hardware for an appropriate mask and safety gear for the job). I would use a small dental mirror and a bright light to inspect the area.

If G.W.B. has touched the tub flange it will show damage 6" or more up the wall as capillary action (water wicking up wall) will travel up the wall. (even to the top plate/top of wall in some instances)

For anyone reading this PVC is not waterproof (in fact few materials are). Moisture can penetrate the surface and it can get trapped behind the panels. (that is why I would highly recommend mold/ moisture resistant products)

Strapping is wood 1" x 3" or 4"
G.W.B. - Gypsum wall board


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

Alright fellas. I the what you guys are saying but I still can't get my head around what you are saying about looking and/or fixing behind the PVC. 

I've marked area A which is what I am understanding you are saying to cut from floor to ceiling and replace with a new piece of GWB. Is it necessary to take out such a large piece?  I was kind of hoping to get away with a small patch of some kind.

Area B is where the GWB goes behind the PVC and has some damage. I've marked a red blob next to the B where there is some minor water damage to the GWB that I can see. This is the part I still don't understand (sorry). Are you saying I need to drill and look behind this by drilling a hole into the PVC next to the faucets (far left of the attached photo) and peek in there with a dentists mirror?

Do note, the damage is dry to the touch. Whatever water was there is dry now. The house doesn't suffer from any dampness and we are on a lot that has exceptional drainage (very sandy).

Thanks again for weighing in guys.


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## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

Alright fellas. I the what you guys are saying but I still can't get my head around what you are saying about looking and/or fixing behind the PVC. 

I've marked area A which is what I am understanding you are saying to cut from floor to ceiling and replace with a new piece of GWB. Is it necessary to take out such a large piece?  I was kind of hoping to get away with a small patch of some kind.

-Think about it, it doesn't matter the size really. You won't be able to buy a little peice of GWB. Then when you tape and mud, it won't matter if you do a little pain in the ass hole or a nice seam. Plus this will give you space to inspect. 

Area B is where the GWB goes behind the PVC and has some damage. I've marked a red blob next to the B where there is some minor water damage to the GWB that I can see. This is the part I still don't understand (sorry). Are you saying I need to drill and look behind this by drilling a hole into the PVC next to the faucets (far left of the attached photo) and peek in there with a dentists mirror?

-Don't drill through PVC. He was saying if you have access to the wall from the next room, open up that wall and check the damage. I say open up area A first, and then we can see. 

Do note, the damage is dry to the touch. Whatever water was there is dry now. The house doesn't suffer from any dampness and we are on a lot that has exceptional drainage (very sandy).

Thanks again for weighing in guys.

No problem.


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

Ah OK. I understand the reasoning behind larger section now. 

And yes, I think I might be able to get into that from behind as that is a small ensuite. 

Hopefull I can get to it this weekend and I'll report in. :hammer:

Cheers!


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

*too bad*

tube spout to wall has big.... not caulked gap... maybe where the 
wet came from...


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The leak may be your tub is not installed level so the water runs off the wall surround onto the drywall next to. Simple solution- a bead of caulking down the outside edge of the surround onto and towards the tub cavity diverting the flow into the tub rather than along the tub top corner and onto the drywall. A moisture meter could save some repair telling you if the drywall is saturated, and how far away from the water source. Replace the drywall next to the surround from the floor up to 3' high with Denshield (it has a waterproof outer layer) rather than Durock that will absorb and store water (water reservoir, absorbs 15% times it's 3# per sq.ft.) which is used under tile. 
Or install sliding glass doors.........

Be safe, Gary


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Bldg 2 Spec said:


> Place strapping behind location that I want to place new G.W.B. (KEEP IT 1/4 OFF THE FLOOR G.W.B./STRAPPING)
> 
> Cut V small groove @ butt joints in G.W.B.


What is the strapping you are talking about?

Also what is the v groove for the butt joints? I have seen this method http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx . Is it similar?


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## Bldg 2 Spec (Jun 22, 2010)

strapping is generally 5/8" or 3/4" wood pieces 3" or 4 inches wide. Basically you just want some blocking to screw your drywall into. You could use 2x4s if you want.

My theory on the v joints is talking about butt joints (not drywall with tapered edges as this groove is done for you). Essentially you cut both offending butting pieces at a 45% angle forming what i call a "v" joint (same theory as concrete pathcing make the hole bigger before you you patch.) and this will make the bond and the seam much easier to manage. As always finish the joint off with a large putty knife to feather the joint out so nobody can feel or see it. I use durabond 90 for all my seams as it dries within the hour and it is unlikely to crack. Then I finish off with normal compund as this is something i can sand to perfection)

Hope that helps Jim


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## Bldg 2 Spec (Jun 22, 2010)

Painting over mold tends to reck paint. The dentist mirror is my little cheap solution to seeing what is going on without tearing up the place. You don't need much of a hole (dont drill it, pipes and yes behind the shower unit) to see whats going on in behind

If you typically get wet floors try a bath mat.

If you want to test something and see what comes out of it cut out only the damaged section durabond it smooth but leave the gap at the damaged area (to recieve caulk). I would still recaulk the tub the surround,where the tub meets the wall and @ the base of the wall closest to that side of the tub (as it is most likely to get wet) and call it a day once you refinish the wall. If it comes back then you know you have an issue. Get that gap in between the tub and the wall and caulk it. This will give you at least some sort of water barrier between the tub and the adjacent wall. Monitor the situation and if it comes back you know you have to do something more. If this is already a repeat I'd be curious about how much damage is there.

There are also corner guards that go between the tub and the wall to prevent water from rolling off the side of the tub (maax makes some nice ones). You may also want to invest in a curved shower rod and a curtain with magnets on the bottom of the shower curtain to ensure that the water indeed stays inside the tub. I tipped mine in a bit so that the curtain curls close to the faucet (prevents water from getting out on the tub edge and is the least ugly option)

Again my concern goes to what we cant see and I condone shortcuts. 

Just a thought


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## chillpill (Apr 22, 2008)

Hey all.

It's been an interestingly busy couple of months with life and family and work. I wanted to pop back in and say a big THANKS! to everyone who tool the time to share their wisdom with me. 

As it turns out, the missus and I decided to bite the bullet and just reno both the bathroom and ensuite as they were due for an overhaul anyways. 

Again, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it!

Cheers.


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## Indy DIY (Sep 23, 2010)

Wet drywall is never a good thing unless you're mold. I've had to fight the same issue in my bathroom at my new house. Just last weekend I got fed up and tore into it to find mold. After a quick visit to the hardware store for "no" help I came here to get advice. Next stop is tearing out all of the drywall and installing green-board. Wish me luck! :huh:


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