# Bad drywall taping



## GSaunders02 (Dec 29, 2008)

I am re-doing a room in my house and I have a celing that has a crack running the length of the room. The ceiling has popcorn sprayed texture on it as well. I took off some of the popcorn texture and confirmed that it was the seam of the drywall that is cracking, not the actual drywall. The issue is, I want to take down the popcorn texture to look at the entire ceiling, but the popcorn texture is pretty well adhered to the ceiling (except in a few places where it flakes off) It appears that whoever put this texture up is hiding issues as the texture is not on the ceiling evenly. In some places it's 1/8" thick, in others it's 1/4". Is there anything that will take this texture down without damaging the drywall? I am real hesitant in ripping down the ceiling, as I don't want to have to re-drywall the entire room...any ideas?


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## Sammy (Mar 11, 2007)

You can try scraping it off by spraying it damp with a bottle of water.. [small areas at a time]
Leave it sit ten minutes and then try scraping it off with a wide putty knife. 

Then retape and maybe skim coat and see what the ceiling finish looks like. 

If you cant get it smooth then use a knock down or textured paint to refinish it.


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## jensenconstruction (Jun 6, 2006)

+1 on the water

We usually get a pump up garden sprayer dampen it, then scrape. the trick is to not use to much water so as not to damage the drywall. You will need to find the proper amount of dampness through trial and error, but once you do it should go pretty quick.

Be warned this is very messy, it usually best to take everything out of the room, then put down plastic to catch everything.

Also, it should be noted that depending on the age of the home acoustic ceiling material may contain asbestos.


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## GSaunders02 (Dec 29, 2008)

jensenconstruction said:


> +1 on the water
> 
> We usually get a pump up garden sprayer dampen it, then scrape. the trick is to not use to much water so as not to damage the drywall. You will need to find the proper amount of dampness through trial and error, but once you do it should go pretty quick.
> 
> ...


The part of the house that has the accoustical ceiling was an addition built in the 80's, so I am assuming there is no asbestos. But, if there was, using water would pretty much eliminate the problem becuase the dust can't get airborne being wet, right?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

If the ceiling has not been painted, then the wetting and scraping method will work. If it has been painted, that is a whole different ceiling you are dealing with. 

Here is a link with a more detailed discussion about popcorn removal, including asbestos:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/popcornoff.html


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

GSaunders02 said:


> The part of the house that has the accoustical ceiling was an addition built in the 80's, so I am assuming there is no asbestos. But, if there was, using water would pretty much eliminate the problem becuase the dust can't get airborne being wet, right?


Even if it was built in the 80's doesn't neccessarily mean that it doesn't have asbestos on the ceiling. The manufacturing of asbestos based materials was stopped in the late 70's (around 1978). However, the materials already sold and in the field, were still being used (installed) after that time. 
Contractors & builders were still allowed to use asbestos-containing building supplies, that they already had on hand - until 1986.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

AtlanticWBConst., that was a good post. 

if the web link disappears send me a private message as i have a PDF copy on my hard drive.

Knucklez


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

If you are going to disturb more than a very small area, then you are REQUIRED to perform an asbestos test. Moisten small area and scrape small amount into a plastic bag, tape shut, insert into another plastic bag and send to a lab you can find online or in phone book.

Do run risk of fines or damaging the health of you and others.


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

just asking cuz I dont know,,,How much does a test for this cost??


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

More Information For Home Owners: http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html




4just1don said:


> just asking cuz I dont know,,,How much does a test for this cost??


Test Kits: http://www.acehardware.com/sm-pro-l...ro-lab-professional-asbestos--pi-1296032.html

Plus the cost of having the test itself done (sample needs to be sent out to a lab) See instructions with cost listed here: http://www.prolabinc.com/instructions/asbestos.html


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

About $50.00


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

A single exposure to asbestos won't do anything. The people that got sick were breathing it in all day every day for years.


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

Make sure to tell that to the lawyer and judge.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Gigs said:


> A single exposure to asbestos won't do anything. The people that got sick were breathing it in all day every day for years.


I'm sorry, but you are wrong, a single exposure will do something:

_*"...When asbestos fibers are inhaled, most fibers are expelled, but some can become lodged in the lungs and remain there throughout life...."*_
- http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/asbestos/asbestos/health_effects/index.html

Tho, it is _chronic exposure_ (exposure to high concentrations, longer time-periods, and frequency of exposures)- that causes serious asbestos -related disorders and lung damage, ......exposure of any kind, can still imbed dangerous asbestos fibers into the walls of your lungs. That includes any asbestos fibers that are spread through a home's other living spaces, and also, the asbestos fibers that end up on any work-clothes, when a person goes home to their families.

This is hardly something I would catergorize, or describe as; _"....won't do anything...."._ 
It's still considered a hazardous material by the EPA, OSHA., and other Health and Safety organizations.


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

Yeah it'll do something alright, pad the bottom line of contractors.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Gigs said:


> Yeah it'll do something alright, pad the bottom line of contractors.


Here is an interesting word from the english vocabulary:

"*Negligence*" - http://plus.aol.com/aol/reference/negligen/negligence?flv=1

Also: _"failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances_"... (- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negligence, Definition B.)

FWIW - Below is another interesting word that often goes hand-in-hand with the previous. This would be on the lines of; when an individual has been made aware of something factual, but makes the conscious decision to ignore it, and in doing so, puts themselves in harm's way/in danger of personal injury. 
(IMHO, the ignorance and culpability is compounded when such an individual spreads their foolish reasonings on the internet, in such a way as to encourage others to endanger themselves, as well as other individauls, that may be directly/indirectly affected by their decisions & actions): 

*"Ignorance"* - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

A medical expert, contractor, *and* a lawyer... nice.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world won't be calling the hazmat team every time they want to repaint their house.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Gigs said:


> A single exposure to asbestos won't do anything. The people that got sick were breathing it in all day every day for years.


Before you toss out advise that may cause harm to others, at least state that *you are neither a doctor or an expert in the field and that your "Opinion" is worth what they paid for it. Nothing.* Neither is mine, actually, but that should be their choice after they weigh in all of the information.



Gigs said:


> Yeah it'll do something alright, pad the bottom line of contractors.


Actually, all of the additional regulations "Costs" substantial more money for the professional contractor who abides by the regulations, so that they are not causing heath risks to their clients. The "Under The Radar" and "Fly By Nighters" may disagree, just because they can do it cheaper without the regulations being observed, but is that the safe, legal and prudent choice?

It is the Hacks who Do Not observe and notify their customers of the necessary precautions that are lining their pockets.

You should make the decision to potentially harm yourself, but not undertake any responsibility to provide erroneous advice to others, please.

Ed


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Before you toss out advise that may cause harm to others, at least state that *you are neither a doctor or an expert in the field and that your "Opinion" is worth what they paid for it. Nothing.* Neither is mine, actually, but that should be their choice after they weigh in all of the information.


I will gladly do so: *I am neither a doctor or an expert in the field and my "Opinion" is worth what you paid for it.*

Anyone soliciting advice on the Internet is pretty much already aware of this. Otherwise this forum could not exist.

That said, a little research on their own will show that a short term low level exposure is not a risk. They should be aware of the asbestos if it's present, but it's a manageable and relatively small risk.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Gigs said:


> ...Meanwhile, the rest of the world won't be calling the hazmat team every time they want to repaint their house.


Actually, painting asbestos siding is an encouraged method of "encapsulating" certain asbestos siding material. 

Tho, Home Owners may not always need to hire a certified company/individual (based on the exact scope of their project), particular attention/measures MUST be made, due to the dangers of "friable" asbestos material becoming airborne (i.e - from sanding, scraping, and general disturbing aspects of asbestos siding), which may affect adajcent/surrounding homes, and residents.

Links:

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html

http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/asbestoshomeshingles.php

http://www.ehow.com/how_4464886_paint-asbestos-siding.html

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/asktoh/question/0,,214367,00.html


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Gigs said:


> ....That said, a little research on their own will show that a short term low level exposure is not a risk. They should be aware of the asbestos if it's present, but it's a manageable and relatively small risk.


Again, this is your "personal opinion". 

I don't know about you, But I would rather not have even a micro-measure of foreign substance "imbeded" in my lungs. 

What you interpret as a "small risk" is your own interpretation, based on the value of your own personal health. Much the same as a smoker, couch potatoe, heavy-eater, says that their "certain habits" don't bother them....and they feel just fine.

I may be wrong about this, but you sound pretty young to me. Much like the many young people doing risky things, because they think they are "indestructable". I thought that way up until about 35. 
When I lossed my wife at age 30, to a rare disease (that may have been triggered by environmental conditions) I learned that life and personal health is very prescious.

Even if you lose everything in life, you still have your health...or maybe not...based on the personal health decisions that we all have the opportunity to _start making_.....at an early age...


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> AGAIN, this is your "personal opinion".
> 
> I don't know about you, But I would rather not have even a micro-measure of foreign substance "imbeded" in my lungs.


I think we can agree that they can research it and decide for themselves. You've given them plenty of links to read.


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## GSaunders02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks everyone for all your input and info. There's a lot of it in there. I am begining to wonder if it would be easier to replace the ceiling. Is it possible to replace just the ceiling without having to tear down all four walls? The walls are in pretty good shape and we were able to salvage those and if I can avoid re-doing the entier room, I'd like to. Any advice? Thanks everone!!


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

GSaunders02 said:


> Thanks everyone for all your input and info. There's a lot of it in there. I am begining to wonder if it would be easier to replace the ceiling. Is it possible to replace just the ceiling without having to tear down all four walls? The walls are in pretty good shape and we were able to salvage those and if I can avoid re-doing the entier room, I'd like to. Any advice? Thanks everone!!


It is possible to "overlay" the ceiling with either 1/4" or 3/8" sheetrock. Doing so allows you to just leave the existing drywall ceiling up. We do it all the time, when there are ceilings that would require more labor to scrape and skim coat, than (versus) - to simply overlay. 
We generally use 1-5/8" to 2" drywall screws. The only part that takes a little time, is locating the joists or strapping to attach the new drywall to. You will end up with a brand new smooth ceiling, that, if done right...no one will know the difference.


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## GSaunders02 (Dec 29, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> It is possible to "overlay" the ceiling with either 1/4" or 3/8" sheetrock. Doing so allows you to just leave the existing drywall ceiling up. We do it all the time, when there are ceilings that would require more labor to scrape and skim coat, than (versus) - to simply overlay.
> We generally use 1-5/8" to 2" drywall screws. The only part that takes a little time, is locating the joists or strapping to attach the new drywall to. You will end up with a brand new smooth ceiling, that, if done right...no one will know the difference.


 
Great!! Thanks for the tip!! I will definitely try that, as that sounds a lot easier than skim-coating a whole ceiling. 

Appreciate it!! :thumbsup:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i guess this is a bad time to bring up the subject of lead paint? :furious:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i'm currently strapping my ceiling cause its in rough shape. i am using 1x3 spruce strapping. the screws are 2 1/2" #8 wood screws, they are longer than normal because i have to get through the strapping, then the plaster, then the lath and _then_ into the joist.

the joists are hard to find, and stud sensors are no good in my case. i rely on finding the first one, and then 16" on center with measuring tape to find the rest of them.


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## BFD8 (Apr 2, 2008)

Gigs said:


> A single exposure to asbestos won't do anything. The people that got sick were breathing it in all day every day for years.


Wow, ignorance IS bliss. One fiber can do it, that's all it takes. Don't spread you ill found knowledge, it could hurt someone.

Certified Asbestos Contractor/Supervisor


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