# How hard to install insulation yourself?



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Are the walls insulated ?
I use fiberglass insulation myself
Do you know the size of the floor joists in the attic?
You will need some boards/plywood strips to walk on while installing


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

I assume the walls are insulated. Its a brick townhouse and the living & dining areas all stay warm. Even the basement is more cozy then the top floor. Fiberglass is the pink batting style of insulation that comes in rolls right?

As for the size of the floor joists I would need to go back up there and measure. I don't have a ladder myself. First time I went up there was with my home inspector and I used his ladder. Second time was with one of the insulation guys who brought his own ladder again. I have a small 4 foot ladder and my attic doesnt have pull down stairs on the hatch door. Thats a project for another day. For now I will buy a ladder if I decide to do this insulation myself.

One more thing, One guy that came to give me an estimate told me that my attic was an R9 value when it came to the insulation.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes - pink rolls but usually the thicker stuff is in 4' "batts"
If you will not use the attic for storage then you can install insulation above joists too
IE fill each bay to the top of the joists
Say you need R19 to fill (3" existing, 5.5" more) = R28 total
Then you roll more R19 perpindicular to the joists across the attic
Total then = R47

Some 3.5" older insulation was R11, I have some that is labelled R7
So R9 is a good estimate

If you may use the attic for storage then I fill to the top of the joists & put plywood down
I then add more insulation to the roof rafters - maybe R19 or more depending upon the size of the rafters


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

I am scared of messing around with batting on the roof rafters. I only wanted to unroll the fiberglass batt to the floor in the attic. Would it be better if I used some reflective insulation like Reflectix along the roof line instead of rolled batting? I see the Reflectix stuff at Home Depot and Lowes and both have rave reviews all over the web on how easy it is to install. 

Has anyone used Reflefectix before? Good grief I am so CONFUSED. Being too cold can cause mass confusion and hysteria... (at least in my house) LOL


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"Think 3 inches of blown in insulation, less in some places." ----- R-9 or* less* is a good guess. Your area is minimum R-38, if I'm reading the map correctly: http://articles.directorym.com/Recommended_Insulation_Levels_Maryland-r1072295-Maryland.html
Are you ready for this job? You need to seal any penetrations of the ceiling below with canned foam, fire-proof around the gas flue (B-vent) from gas appliances, all electrical boxes, and can lights require special consideration if not rated IC- insulation cover. You need an air space above the batts when installing near the angled roof deck to keep the attic ventilated. This involves walking on boards to access all areas of the attic, adding batts as you work back towards the access hole. It is really a two person job, just getting the materials up there. Wear protective clothing, mask, goggles, gloves. A few good lights, a 6' 1x2 with a fork in the end to place the batts without crawling to every low headroom area. And possibly a ventilating fan on low setting aiming at attic from below to help keep the loose fibers and sweat out of your eyes. Presuming you have exhaust vents near the peak. 
Dave, "If you may use the attic for storage then I fill to the top of the joists & put plywood down
I then add more insulation to the roof rafters - maybe R19 or more depending upon the size of the rafter" with that set-up the heat and any moisture from below reaches the storage items due to lack of insulation under the plywood. The rafter insulation above does nothing to keep the heat in the room below. It would only slow the moisture in the air causing it to deposit on the storage items and rafter insulation rather than to be vented out sooner if the rafter insulation was not there. Insulate full R-value required on the ceiling, building a raised platform above it for the storage. Of course the ceiling joists need to be rated to carry the added loads: http://books.google.com/books?id=_T...q=storage above insulated attic floor&f=false

Tech, read this and click on the figures pictures as you read: http://www.bpa.gov/Energy/N/Energy_Tips/weatherization/InsulateCeiling.cfm#
Be safe, Gary


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Dave, "If you may use the attic for storage then I fill to the top of the joists & put plywood down
> I then add more insulation to the roof rafters - maybe R19 or more depending upon the size of the rafter" with that set-up the heat and any moisture from below reaches the storage items due to lack of insulation under the plywood. The rafter insulation above does nothing to keep the heat in the room below.
> Be safe, Gary


Actually insulation in between the floor joists then plywood



> Say you need R19 to fill (3" existing, 5.5" more) = R28 total


3" existing then "x" inches more to fill to the top of the floor joist
Then plywood
Insulation on the rafters (vented bays), then sheetrock
This is the exact method used on newer houses where the attic is built as a storage area
On a newer house the attic joists maybe 2x10, older houses lucky to have 2x6


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

Okay, now I am confused... So you guys are saying I can add the batt on top of the loose insulation? Then add plywood to cover the attic? The previous owners had some boxes up there, I have a basement so I dont plan on using the attic for storage whatsoever.

I am considering doing the reflective insulation along the roof rafters which according to reviews on Lowe's and Home depot websites is pretty easy. And I would also like to beef up the insulation on the floor of the attic.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If you don't need the storage space then don't bother with the plywood
I usually just cut some 16" - 2' wide pieces of plywood or bring up other scrap wood to walk on

2 issues:

#1 keeping the heat in the house in the winter
#2 keeping the heat of the attic out of the house (summer)


#1 - Yes roll out as much insulation to fill the joist bays on the "floor"
I would buy as much as will fill to the top of the joists
Then buy rolls of R19 & go perpindicular to the joists across the insulation you just put down
This will give you a 2x layer
Adding min of R19 (if 2x6 joists) between & R19 on top gives you R40+ with the existing blown in insulation

#2 Rafters - you say there is existing insulation stapled up on the rafters (roof) ?
That will help keep the heat out
Does the house have gable vents, ridge vent or other venting?
That will also help keep the house cool

I have not used the reflective insulation, but have heard it works
I used to live in Pasadena...some hot summers


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"So you guys are saying I can add the batt on top of the loose insulation?" ------ Yes, unfaced run in between the ceiling joists. 2nd layer as Dave said, perpendicular, also unfaced batt.

"Then add plywood to cover the attic? The previous owners had some boxes up there, I have a basement so I dont plan on using the attic for storage whatsoever." -------- Good choice, unless you made a closed room up there for the dead air space, your R-value would be based on the joist thickness and you would lose heat through the joists due to thermal bridging from the ply/joist not separated by foam board. 

"I am considering doing the reflective insulation " ----- http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/radiant/index.html
Be safe, Gary


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

*I think you are getting confused by technical terms*

Joists are what carpenters call the "floor "of your attic.

Here is a very simplified 'how to' for attic insulation.

First ,your attic space is(or should be) ventilated.Fresh air comes in around the edges of the attic 'floor'(soffit vent) and exits through vents higher up on the sloped part of the roof-(mushroom vent)or at the very top(ridge vent)-or on the side wall(gable vent).

First thing to do is get up in the attic and figure out where the air comes in at the edge of the attic 'floor'.(soffit vents)YOU SHOULD SEE LIGHT COMING IN.

When putting in more insulation you MUST NOT BLOCK the air from coming in.-----you will make a moldy mess out of your attic if you do.


the Depot sells "insulation baffles"that you simply slide into those openings between the 'floor 'and the roof(WHERE YOU SEE THE LIGHT COMING IN).
they are a cheap Styrofoam tray like things about 3 feet long.


Now you insulate,I must assume the original insulation had a vapor barrier.
(that is a paper or foil face) Should be touching the drywall.

You may add more UNFACED ROLL INSULATION or get an insulation blower
and blow in as much as you can afford.:laughing:

The blowers are free to use (no rental cost) where you buy the insulation.
Fast, cheap ,little crawling around--First choice for DIY.:whistling2:

The blowers weigh a BUNCH. Get somebody strong.

If all goes well,it will take you longer to get your supplies and return the machine,than it will take to do the work.---:thumbup:_----MIKE


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

One more thought - vapor barrier/retarder
Do you know if one is in place?
It should be against the ceiling under the attic
I'm not sure what they did (or do) when using blown -in ?

There should only be one vaport barrier
So adding more insulation you do not use kraft faced insulation
Ah - I see GBar already commented on that.....:thumbsup:

At my mom's she had blow in, no vapor barrier
So I scooped out the blown-in, put down R-19 Kraft faced (paper down)
Then put the blow in on top
I did this rafter by rafter & put all the blown-in into the old garage attic
It was a mess doing this, goggles & dust mask
But the main house ended up with all new "good" insulation


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Here's pics showing an insulation baffle (chute) in place
But you said rafters have insulation attached already
So they may be hiding these vents, or there may have been enough space left for air to vent


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Thanks SCUBA DAVE The baffle pictures sure help.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If there is no vapor barrier between the drywall and the attic space-oh damn-you will be doing a "Dave"job,Sweep the pocket clean-Roll out FACED insulation. Shovel and sweep next pocket on top of the one you just finished-Repeat-Repeat-Yuck ,Still-Can you earn in a day what it will cost you to have it done?

It's not brain surgery!

P.S.BE CAREFUL (damn I sound like my mother) And figure on the cost of a nice brunch into your estimate.


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

The rafters are TOTALLY uninsulated. So I would be adding the reflective insulation to bare naked rafters. The installer guy didnt seem to think that was a problem. He said that kind of install along rafters was ideal and recommended.

I'm going to buy a real ladder this weekend so I can go up there and walk around and investigate further. I do not know if any vapor barrier is up there, as well as any baffles. This foreclosure was built in 1974 and seems like everything is original in here as the previous 3 owners did absolutely nothing in the way of upgrades. I honestly beleive this blown in insulation is original as well. Currently I only have a 4 foot stepladder right now and I can only stick my head up to glance at whats up there. I will be back with detailed findings...


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

Update: I totally scrapped the idea of installing reflective. I have had not one but 3 insulation professionals tell me its not worth it here in the northern region. 2 of which actually sell the reflective themselves. I'm from Miami, so I guess I still have the sweltering Miami sun on the brain.

I also scrapped the idea of doing it myself. I am having 14inches of cellulose blown in on Saturday. They use Applegate insulation, which looking at their web siteseems to be a good product. They have already prepared me for the dust factor. I got a really good rate at 0.89 per sqaure foot which tops the $1.25/foot rate that Home Depot was giving me for blown in fiberglass.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions and help! I have another fish to fry now... My neighbors, who I share a common wall with, found they had bats in their attic. LOTS of them. They just paid someone 1200 this weekend to rid them of the bats and the remaining 2 feet of bat poo left in their attic. Hopefully they don't come running into MY attic!


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

They didn't sell the bat guano ? Great fertilizer so I hear
Sometime hiring it out is the best option
Heating season is about here
I need one more trip to the MIL's to finish her attic


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## rahfiki (Jun 23, 2009)

I had to add insulation to the attic of one of my Rentals. I just used the blown in style. It is much easier in my opinion. You dont have to rock around as much up there as it shoots out of the hose quite a way.

Just make sure whichever route you go to make sure the venting is not blocked.

Where I am from there is not much differance in price from blown in insulation and batts ( if I do it myself that is).

Iether way it is a fairly simple job, however it is hard on the back....bending and twisting up there. The blown style does make it easier tho.


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## rahfiki (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh one thing to mention if you are hiring it done....make sure (in writing) they dont cover the vents. 

When I looked into it up here in hiring it done and I inquired about making sure they dont cover the soffit vents or installing a cardboard barrier to keep the insulation from getting blown into the vents....they said they dont do that, it is up to me.

I figured if I am going to have to climb up there to the very edge of the roof to protect the vents....why in the hell would I pay someone to pop a hose in the attic and blow insulation around. That is why i ended up doing it myself.

Perhaps where you are from they will make sure they dont cover the vents and take precautions, however like i said earlier get it in writing, or you could end up with no ventilation up there and a whole mess of problems.


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

The guy I ended up going with told me that there is no ventilation in the soffits in my attic so he will not be doing anything but blowing in the cellulose. My gutters are pulled close up to the edge of my townhouse. My roof has attic fans installed apparently.

The Lady from the other larger insulation company said the same. She said some homes do and some homes dont.


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## rahfiki (Jun 23, 2009)

I am from up in Canada, and it may be differant here, however up here attics need ventilation. It helps get rid of extra hot air in the summer (which eventually pushes down into the house), and it helps get rid of moisture and condensation - wich creates tonnes of problems...wet insulation...mold...rot, lots of ugly stuff.

Check with some building officials down there in your area and they can let you know if they are needed or not. Like I said it may be differant down there.

If they are needed, I assume they can be put in later on through the roof or gable ends. Perhaps a whirlybird even --thats the name believe it or not. It is a metal fan like contraption that goes ontop of the roof...wind turns it and it creates some ventilation in the attic.

good day eh:laughing:


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Well..... start here: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-102-understanding-attic-ventilation?full_view=1
Then to the no-soffit vents: http://www.cor-a-vent.com/in-vent.cfm
And on to some problems with some fans: http://www.ronhungarter.com/black_mold.html
Be safe, Gary


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Long before I would scoop out insulation to add a vapor retarder, I would head to the local paint store. You can pick up a low permeability interior finish and paint the ceilings. Then you will have a vapor retarder that's continuous, in the ideal place (as close to the interior side as possible) and you'll have a new finish on the ceiling.


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## techprincesse (Aug 20, 2009)

rahfiki said:


> Perhaps a whirlybird even --thats the name believe it or not. It is a metal fan like contraption that goes ontop of the roof...wind turns it and it creates some ventilation in the attic.
> 
> good day eh:laughing:


This is what my roof has now. 2 of them that move when the wind blows. I can see them from the parking lot on top of my roof.


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## What have I done (May 28, 2006)

k not to hijack the thread but im gonna anyway---if the ceiling is lathe and plaster is a vapor barrior needed for blown in cellulose?


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

The issue of whether or not to install a vapour barrier, where and of what kind depends mostly on where you live. Not knowing that means no-one can answer for sure.:no:


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