# BEHR would like to hear about your experiences with our paint



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

hi and welcome to the forum! you should get plenty of feedback from the folks here.

DM


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

This should be good.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I'll go first.

My first experience was with your Premium Interior Flat. It was a light Beige to be painted on new walls that was primed brush & roller with Zinsser 123 (Just about the best latex primer on the market) Opened the can and the stuff looked ok. Poured it out into my roller bucket and cut bucket and it seemed somewhat normal consistency and thickness and nothing really seamed out of the norm. I cut in my first wall with no issues. It seemed to cover like $25 paint so far with just the cut. Then I start to roll the walls. I get the whole wall rolled out and didn't have any real complaints. Seemed to go on "OK", like $25. So then I start cutting in the second wall and happen to look back at the first wall. All along the bottom the paint was sagging terribly as well as up the wall. I have never seen paint sag before like that. So basically I now have to keep going back over the walls countless times with the roller to smooth this stuff out. This one room paint job took twice as long as it should have with me having to babysit the paint that should have stuck to the walls. It was a custom color that was on the shaker so it wasn't something that sat on a shelf. I did a search on the net and found out a LOT of people are having the same problems. The coverage wasn't the greatest either once dry. 2 coats and it was still streaky. The nicest way I can put it is to say that is poor quality. On the exterior of same house I used the Exterior Premium White Semi-Gloss and it was streaky going over a fully white primed surface. 

Honestly, I would use the $12 Glidden paint before I would use Behr.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Drips,runs,sags,viscosity,coverage(lack there of),splatter, oder,having to deal with incompetent sales persons at HD, having to go to HD, having customers tell me over and over how Behr is rated #1 by CR( that is the worst). Off the top of my head and I am sure I am missing some, but there is a short list of comments and experiences and as posted else where "I just want to know how much money Behr pays Consumer Reports every year to rank them #1." 

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls":laughing:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

i believe they were rated #1 by CR because of cost, not because of a bribe! lol

chris(.behr) , please search 'behr' up above there and you'll find more threads on your product, both good and bad.
me, i've never had any real problems with ANY brand of paint i've used, but i don't paint that much either.....

DM


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## Handyman Jim Noonan (May 8, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Drips,runs,sags,viscosity,coverage(lack there of),splatter
> 
> My neighbor told me just last week that he used Behr texture paint on his ceiling downstairs and it was the first and the last time he would ever use that paint. The coverage was no where near the amount listed on the bucket.He had to go out twice to buy more paint.Splatter everywhere as well as drips.It took him two or three days just to do the ceiling and he was worn out from the effort.


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## chris.behr (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Behr is just about to roll out a new line of interior paint that addresses the kind of things you've brought up. If you (or any of your clients) is having problems with Behr products anytime in the future I encourage you to contact our tech services team right away and they will help you sort things out.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

chris.behr said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. Behr is just about to roll out a new line of interior paint that addresses the kind of things you've brought up. If you (or any of your clients) is having problems with Behr products anytime in the future I encourage you to contact our tech services team right away and they will help you sort things out.


Oh sweet. Behr is finally going to add Binder to thier paint. How much will that add to the cost ? People are already paying $25/Gallon for stuff that performs on the $6/gallon level. :laughing:


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## BMDealer (Dec 9, 2008)

Chris you have a lot of guts......I commend you for your efforts. Paint talk wasn't that great to you either, I believe. My 2 Cents since I sell a competing brand all I can say is keep up the good work. I deal with home owners everyday that either have heard or have had issues with Behr. So please don't change anything I like the formula just the way it is. As far as pro painters we deal with.....Behr is not even an option.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

As far as pro painters we deal with.....Behr is not even an option. :no:

People are already paying $25/Gallon for stuff that performs on the $6/gallon level. :thumbsup:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Look at this thread.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/what-solid-stain-best-42170/

Sorry to be so harsh, but this garbage has no business going on a wall.


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## fmeijler (Apr 11, 2009)

I use behr a lot never any problems with it.
It sounds that all the "pros" use too much paint on their brushes.
It is a good inexpensive product compared to s.w. Or b.m. Same coverage.
I just did a 4 bedroom house with it owners were very pleased.
The trick is not to apply to much paint that is all....


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## bobbyacro (Apr 11, 2009)

fmeijler said:


> I use behr a lot never any problems with it.
> It sounds that all the "pros" use too much paint on their brushes.
> It is a good inexpensive product compared to s.w. Or b.m. Same coverage.
> I just did a 4 bedroom house with it owners were very pleased.
> The trick is not to apply to much paint that is all....


Hahahaha... How are those owners going to feel in 1 or 2 years? I cant stand when people comment on paint jobs when the last time they saw them was 1 day after it was finished.

I have painted for money and also painted 3 of my houses, 9 rentals my parents own, my sisters house and countless friends houses. The best thing I ever did was use REAL PAINT (SW Home Duration). 

The problem with Behr is that the simps at home depot give your customers unrealistic expectations on your product. I understand that Behr hits a certain price point but your front line sales people insist it performs better than a paint that cost 2x as much. STOP THE LIES!!!!!!! 
Behr is the perfect paint for "know-it-all" home owners that get all their BS info from consumer reports. Most people are pretty uneducated but think they know more than the guy, or girl, that has done this for a living for more than 20 years. 

Behr is a inferior product, stop making it out to be "just as good" as Home Duration and Aura. People who paint for a living hate your product because you create a huge lie about the performance of the product. We all know 9 out of 10 people go hook, line and sinker for a bigger lie rather than listen to the truth. Maybe its not Behr thats a problem, maybe its the home owners that think everyone is out to rip them off.

Why would a contractor waste his time selling a paint job that cost 2x as much instead of selling a job with specs for Behr paint? Maybe its because hes proud of his, or her, work and wants a product that LASTS, not Behr which will make him look like a SCAB.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't mean to cause conflict, but I call shenanigans on this guy.



fmeijler said:


> It sounds that all the "pros" use too much paint on their brushes.


I don't think I have heard a more ridiculous statement in a long time. 



fmeijler said:


> I use behr a lot never any problems with it.
> It sounds that all the "pros" use too much paint on their brushes.
> It is a good inexpensive product compared to s.w. Or b.m. Same coverage.
> I just did a 4 bedroom house with it owners were very pleased.
> The trick is not to apply to much paint that is all....


I edited this to be nice, but I really don't think you know what you are talking about. It's one thing to have paint not cover well. That's fine, we can throw another coat on it. It's another thing to have to babysit paint and put it on so paper-thin in fear of the stuff sagging all over the place. It's also one thing to not be superior paint, fine, we all know how to get the best out of cheaper paint, it's something completely different to have the paint flat out fail. 

To educate you, paint on too thick will run. Cheap paint on at the right thinkness will sag. There's a difference.


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## Chemist1961 (Dec 13, 2008)

Chris good effort. :thumbsup: Tom Peters once said ``Perception is all there really is``

I have never tried the products. Based on what I have read here continually since joining I have avoided BEHR like the plague... and have bought about 6 gallons of other product in the last 4 months. I live in Canada where we have hundreds of Home Hardware stores selling their own mix of paints..Beautitone. They promote it as being equal or better to Benjamin Moore and they sell it like pros... tried the paint because of their great service.... I live 5 miles from the birthplace of Home Hardware so I try to support their dealers. To me it`s service first 


I have a friend who says CHEAP IS TERMINAL. 

Chris from a sales perspective I hope the marketing guys position the new product with a satisfaction gaurantee. Just remember, underpromise, overdeliver 

Guys don`t shoot the messenger.


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## Baron (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm a contractor and we don't use your paint if we can help it. It is too thick and sticky yet doesn't cover well. It doesn't roll out as good as other paints and leaves many holidays. We have had situations where it has pulled the easy sand right of the ceiling. It also chips with your finger nails too easy.

We almost exclusively use Benjamin Moore or California paints middle range to best as BM's contractor paint, bottom of the line paint, acts like yours does. 

For cost and coverage and workability we only use your paint if the Home owner bought it and won't return it.
Labor wise it cost more to use your paint as it doesn't apply as well as others for the reason I have mentioned. 
Sorry I couldn't be more positive, but it's my honest assessment from years of experience with better products.


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## Baron (Jan 6, 2009)

I have to mention that if Homeowners were to be sampled for their opinions about their experience with products they would reply in the same way a new born baby does to a shiny rattling object. Either filed with giddy exuberance or total anxiety and crying. Either way it wouldn't be a good sample of a products worth. 

The experienced painter/contractor works for money that has to be defended by a reliable stable cost effective product that creates and sustains a value over a long period of time if he expects any repeat customers. Bells and whistle aside the product has to work on many levels.

Through trial and error we discover what the best products are, as advertisements are for influencing the unknowledgeable shoppers, not the serious contractor. What Behr advertises it falls short on in its products in ever experimental usage we have tried. To think a professional doesn't give products a chance is naive. We just haven't got the time for products that don't measure up to the needs of a strong clientelle and a cheap product will destroy a reputation. 

Though if I had the advertising clout of Home depot and Behr paint I could sell anything to anybody and wouldn't care about quality.


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## mpgumm (Apr 10, 2009)

chris.behr said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My name is Chris and I work with Behr Process Corp. I'm sorry to hear about the problems some of you have had with Behr paint.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Behr Representative,

I used Behr Deck plus two summers ago. I did three coats to have a thick deep coat. After one year, the solid latex stain peeled up in places. I thought I did something wrong in prep. I used Behr No.64 multi-surface deck prep cleaner and mildew stain remover; since the deck was a year old and in great condition (which is recommended on the label). Before I stained the deck the first time, the deck was never sealed or treated. So, in one year my deck was in worse shape then it was when I started. It peeled and faded. So last summer I started over, this time I did everything the label said to a tee. I used Behr No.64 - 15 minute Quick-Fix Deck Finish remover and wood resurfacer. I power washed the deck. I then sanded deck with box sander to make sure surface was free of everything. Then I cleaned the deck one more time to get rid of dust and just to make sure it was totally clean. Then I let it dry for about four days. 
I again used Behr Deck plus solid latex 213 deep base. I used two coats, but decided a thin third coat was needed. I know on the label, it says 200-400 sq. ft. per gallon. I used three gallons for the first coat alone. It was because the wood soaked it up so much, one gallon barely covered the wood, and I wanted to have a good first coat. Plus, doing all the railing and spindles ate up a lot of paint. I did each coat 24 hours a part (three days). The days were Ideal; the conditions were 75F with partial sun, and no moisture. It had to stick this time. But no it didn't. The same thing happened. I now know it wasn't me, it is the product. It peeled and faded as bad as the first time. I have one partially used can left out of the 6 gallons I bought last year. That is on top of the 6 gallons I used before. The sander cost me $35 for a day, plus $15 for sand rounds. This is the worst experience I have had with any product ever! I spent days preparing, days painting (with a Purdy brush by the way), So over the past two years, I have bought 12 gallons of paint, spent at least 10 full days in all, and spent money on supplies, which were all Behr products that were recommended. It has a 5 year warranty. It hasn't made it a full year. Your product is horrible. I feel dumb trying to use it the second time giving Behr the benefit of the doubt. As I read on the internet and forums- It is easy to see it is a reoccurring problem. Everyone complains about it peeling and fading. I have a 20x20 deck. It is a big part of my home and it is embarrassing to have people see the deck “like” it was never cared for. I don't want your product, I never will buy your product again, and most of all I will warn as many people as possible, that Behr Deck plus is the worst purchase any one can make. It looks like a lot of people feel the same way as me. I just got a quote to re-do my deck at $1,000.00. That is nothing considering how much time and money I wasted using your product. I am asking for a full refund of 12 gallons of Behr Deck plus solid stain, Behr cleaners and products, and my valuable time. I am going to as for $300.00 re-fund. If I believed in you product I would have you re-do the deck, but I will be using a different company product this year. Like I said, I only have one can left. I purchased it all at home depot. I figure each gallon costing $25.00 x 12 gallons=$300.00 / Cleaners and sander rental costing $150.00 / Labor and time costing $150.00 (12 days of prep and painting/clean up) this all includes both years.
It is sad that your product is nothing you say it is. I would call this fraud. Anyways, I contacted my lawyer about the matter, so he is aware of the faulty product and my asking for re imbursement. I would prefer not to use legal action. I figure you made money on my purchase; I lost money on my purchase, so I feel $300.00 is fare. I even used all Behr products to do the job. Let me know what you are going to do for me. Again, the only positive thing you can do now is to show me you still stand by you product by standing by your warranty and giving me a refund. I look forward to hearing from a representative of Behr paints. 

 Michael Gummerson
 [email protected]


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## Baron (Jan 6, 2009)

Can you imagine what this would have done to a Contractors reputation and how many customers would label him a bad contractor due to this kind of results from this kind of product??

Be thankful your lively hood wasn't dependent on this.
Imagine a contractor trying to overcome the media campaign of brainwashing by these products to try to defend his honor after being duped into this result.

Most people will side with the advertiser, who has used money to invent a reputation instead of building one with experience and knowledge. Something the poor contractor can't afford to do and has to work extra hard to overcome such a products results. 



mpgumm said:


> Dear Behr Representative,
> 
> I used Behr Deck plus two summers ago. I did three coats to have a thick deep coat. After one year, the solid latex stain peeled up in places. I thought I did something wrong in prep. I used Behr No.64 multi-surface deck prep cleaner and mildew stain remover; since the deck was a year old and in great condition (which is recommended on the label). Before I stained the deck the first time, the deck was never sealed or treated. So, in one year my deck was in worse shape then it was when I started. It peeled and faded. So last summer I started over, this time I did everything the label said to a tee. I used Behr No.64 - 15 minute Quick-Fix Deck Finish remover and wood resurfacer. I power washed the deck. I then sanded deck with box sander to make sure surface was free of everything. Then I cleaned the deck one more time to get rid of dust and just to make sure it was totally clean. Then I let it dry for about four days.
> I again used Behr Deck plus solid latex 213 deep base. I used two coats, but decided a thin third coat was needed. I know on the label, it says 200-400 sq. ft. per gallon. I used three gallons for the first coat alone. It was because the wood soaked it up so much, one gallon barely covered the wood, and I wanted to have a good first coat. Plus, doing all the railing and spindles ate up a lot of paint. I did each coat 24 hours a part (three days). The days were Ideal; the conditions were 75F with partial sun, and no moisture. It had to stick this time. But no it didn't. The same thing happened. I now know it wasn't me, it is the product. It peeled and faded as bad as the first time. I have one partially used can left out of the 6 gallons I bought last year. That is on top of the 6 gallons I used before. The sander cost me $35 for a day, plus $15 for sand rounds. This is the worst experience I have had with any product ever! I spent days preparing, days painting (with a Purdy brush by the way), So over the past two years, I have bought 12 gallons of paint, spent at least 10 full days in all, and spent money on supplies, which were all Behr products that were recommended. It has a 5 year warranty. It hasn't made it a full year. Your product is horrible. I feel dumb trying to use it the second time giving Behr the benefit of the doubt. As I read on the internet and forums- It is easy to see it is a reoccurring problem. Everyone complains about it peeling and fading. I have a 20x20 deck. It is a big part of my home and it is embarrassing to have people see the deck “like” it was never cared for. I don't want your product, I never will buy your product again, and most of all I will warn as many people as possible, that Behr Deck plus is the worst purchase any one can make. It looks like a lot of people feel the same way as me. I just got a quote to re-do my deck at $1,000.00. That is nothing considering how much time and money I wasted using your product. I am asking for a full refund of 12 gallons of Behr Deck plus solid stain, Behr cleaners and products, and my valuable time. I am going to as for $300.00 re-fund. If I believed in you product I would have you re-do the deck, but I will be using a different company product this year. Like I said, I only have one can left. I purchased it all at home depot. I figure each gallon costing $25.00 x 12 gallons=$300.00 / Cleaners and sander rental costing $150.00 / Labor and time costing $150.00 (12 days of prep and painting/clean up) this all includes both years.
> ...


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

Behr PR Representative, thank you for your courage in adressing public issues with your product.

Because the internet, product opinions can be seen instantly by others across the country. 
I'd guess the multitude of negative individual opinions have(and will) affect your market share and profit over time, despite an agressive advertizing campaign.

Please consider not only the money lost with a deficient product, but the additional time, electricity, gas, etc. spent by every single painter in removing the bad product, preping, sourcing and re-applying another product.
Additionally, premature failure of a product can also lead to water damage of the underlying surface and/or structure.

My question would be: Does the Behr warrantee compensate for this as well?


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## mpgumm (Apr 10, 2009)

*good for that one behr rep. that cares.*



Stillwerkin said:


> Behr PR Representative, thank you for your courage in adressing public issues with your product.
> 
> Because the internet, product opinions can be seen instantly by others across the country.
> I'd guess the multitude of negative individual opinions have(and will) affect your market share and profit over time, despite an agressive advertizing campaign.
> ...


That is a good point. There are many more expenses put into it than just buying the paint. My wood was not protected well, so the wood isn't in the shape it should be. The rental of a sander, sand paper, time prepping, time saining, time stripping of the old bad stain, etc. I also commend some one from Behr realizing the problem and trying to address it. Like what was said, over time the quality of the product (or lack of quality) will make that company loose it all.


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## bobbyacro (Apr 11, 2009)

Too bad most people dont get a second chance to run their own company if they screw up as badly as Behr. Sales force, if you can call them that, at Home Depot spewing lies to home owners. Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_..."Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off..." _

Is a 99-cent bottle of shampoo sold at WalMart a bad product? How 'bout if they told you they sell a million bottles a day - is it a bad product?

No it's a cheap product made from fewer ingredients of lesser quality, all designed to meet a fixed price point. 

My wife's hairdresser doesn't use it - although it does clean hair...so why wouldn't she?

Turning that around, I wouldn't think a hairdresser was worth the $100 she charges if she used a 99-cent Walmart shampoo. And she doesn't because much like the pro painters we're talking about, she's tried them all and found that the $10-a-bottle, 25% active shampoo that has been formulated with all the latest silk proteins, the tea tree oils, the thickening agents and moisiturizing amphoteric surfactants works best for her applications.

But that doesn't make a 99-cent shampoo a bad product. Now if WalMart said to consumers that their product acts like the salon grades, I'd fault WalMart, not the shampoo.

The 99-cent bottle fills a niche being the one-timer, price-conscious consumer that is there to buy something else; the salon brand fulfills another niche...

In my time, I have made both 99-cent _and _the $10-a-bottle products in our plant; there is a close parallel between the production of those - and paints: it's all in the formulation and you really get what you pay for. The margin on one and the other are almost the same... %-wise. 

I'm not a pro painter - but I don't use Behr as a matter of choice. On the other hand, I have seen paint formulations that are designed for inexpensive paints and those of premium paints - and where I paint, the premium is always a better deal.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

ccarlisle said:


> But that doesn't make a 99-cent shampoo a bad product. Now if WalMart said to consumers that their product acts like the salon grades, I'd fault WalMart, not the shampoo.


Isn't that what Behr, Home Depot, Consumer Reports and some people do?


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## bobbyacro (Apr 11, 2009)

ccarlisle said:


> _..."Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off..." _
> 
> Is a 99-cent bottle of shampoo sold at WalMart a bad product? How 'bout if they told you they sell a million bottles a day - is it a bad product?
> 
> ...


If you read my other post you would see I said what you did. Behr is what it is, I get that, but make sure the sales force (HD employees) are not on the front lines saying that it is just as good as top end paint products. All you end up doing is putting false expectations on the customer and making contractors look bad.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

No, no don't get me wrong -we agree. In fact your post was right on the money. I personally don't fault Behr paints as much as I do the marketing of it as a 'premium' product. And by that, I mean they may charge you $28 for a gallon of paint when it is 'worth' only $15 - but they do that to hide it's real value. In other words it's badly positioned for us not them.

If the employees see the paint worth $28, they might assume it is of a higher quality than it is. Not the employees fault...

It is what it is.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

I attempted to use the texture paint on my ceiling that Behr makes. 

It was a pain the a......to use and I have never used so many  words in my life when I attempted to put it on. I purchased the correct brush, but the product was impossible to put on. Really thick. 

Based on this experience and all the other comments I would never try any other product that Behr has. 

It is a cheap product, and you get what you pay for. I have just finished using BM and I simply LOVE it. Goes on really nice, and coverage is excellent. 
I have never painted before, and my paint job, has turned out excellent. 
Looks just as good as the paint job that my contractor charged me $5,000 to do, for my home.


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## hdassociate (Apr 14, 2009)

I am a HD employee in the paint dept. I am located in canada and have been doing this for several years and have heard more than my share of comments about several brands of paint.
First off I would like to comment on all the professional painters out there. I can't say anything to painters in other areas of North America but where I come from any joe can got to the dollar store buy a brush and roller, put an add in the paper and advertise himself as a pro painter. Many customer i come in contact with come in looking for a second opinion. If they followed their "painters" advice every homeowner would be applying BIN on everything they are painting. So called pro advice.
As for behr paint I have heard the same complaints about the products as i read here. But you are but a drop in the pond. I receive that many compliments on Behr times 100 from homeowners and reputable painters. I have also heard complaints about BM and many other brands. Price wasn't one of them.
As for the comments saying HD employees knowing nothing, This is my job, I take pride in it and and i have no problems sending customers to a "paint store" if I cannot help them or if do not have a paricular product they require. The so-called paint stores in my area do the same.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Ya sure pal. People are just flooding forums with complaints about Benjamin Moore paint sagging, too thick, white not covering white, peeling and that it stinks.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The main problem I have with Behr paint is that it sags
White doesn't cover white
Other colors have very poor coverage
Painting w/Behr is like painting with molasses (brnad new paint)
I have a drill mixer & the paint is always mixed completely

After years of painting with Behr paint from HD (thinking it was me) I will be switching to BM or another paint from a paint store


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

hdassociate said:


> I am a HD employee in the paint dept. I am located in canada and have been doing this for several years and have heard more than my share of comments about several brands of paint.
> First off I would like to comment on all the professional painters out there. I can't say anything to painters in other areas of North America but where I come from any joe can got to the dollar store buy a brush and roller, put an add in the paper and advertise himself as a pro painter. Many customer i come in contact with come in looking for a second opinion. If they followed their "painters" advice every homeowner would be applying BIN on everything they are painting. So called pro advice.
> As for behr paint I have heard the same complaints about the products as i read here. But you are but a drop in the pond. I receive that many compliments on Behr times 100 from homeowners and reputable painters. I have also heard complaints about BM and many other brands. Price wasn't one of them.
> As for the comments saying HD employees knowing nothing, This is my job, I take pride in it and and i have no problems sending customers to a "paint store" if I cannot help them or if do not have a paricular product they require. The so-called paint stores in my area do the same.


You may be one of very few that know what they are talking about when asked a question by a customer. 

MOST employees at HD, don't have a clue of what they are talking about. 

I have learned never to ask them any questions.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I have no bones to pick with employees from HD or anywhere else; they have their work to do, I have mine. Having said that, I ask fellow professionals for their professional opinions and I ask homeowner service people homeowner questions...not the reverse.

I have no idea whether or not my compatriot poster from HD is - or was - a professional painter and it may well be that he has little or no experience with Behr paints as compared to others...I just don't assume he is a professional painter.

On the other hand, it may well interest him what professional painters are saying about the product he sells every day, the very people who use it every day in comparison with other paints. He may well already know this, so as long as he doesn't start saying "Behr is better than BM" or words to that effect, I'm cool.

A homeowner who paints one room for a $25/gallon of Behr paint and is proud of their work is NOT a representative sample of how the paint compares to others. It says that customer is happy...that's all.

Now tell them that same customer they overspent $15 on that gallon but got what the product was worth, will be another story. :yes:


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## bobbyacro (Apr 11, 2009)

hdassociate said:


> I am a HD employee in the paint dept. I am located in canada and have been doing this for several years and have heard more than my share of comments about several brands of paint.
> *-First off I would like to comment on all the professional painters out there. I can't say anything to painters in other areas of North America but where I come from any joe can got to the dollar store buy a brush and roller, put an add in the paper and advertise himself as a pro painter*.
> 
> _* Anyone, anywhere can put a sign on their vehicle and advertise as any type of contractor. Where I come from anyone can get hired at HD, put on a name tag, get a weeks training and become a specialist in their respective department._
> ...


-------------


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## DIYtestdummy (Jan 16, 2008)

I've given my opinion quite a few times on this forum on Behr, HD, BM, SW, etc. I can only match the bad experiences with the ones previously posted and I can produce proof, as less than a year the Behr crap is peeling under the coat that I used to try to hide it.

I can say that the prized Benjamin Moore paint is crap too. I've had only good results with Sherwin Williams, although pricey, and my favorite to date is Dunn Edwards. All the pros I work around use Dunn Edwards too. Around here, keeping the cost down goes hand-in-hand with keeping the customer happy with top-quality work.

The only way to really improve Behr is to stop selling it so customers don't get really burned when the "contractors" use it to try to keep their families fed.

As for HD employees - you can't expect much with the skimpy wages they earn. Just keep them the hell away from me so they don't hurt themselves, or me or others, when they try to help. I have to praise the women who work there though! I see them busting ass while somewhere there are thug-wannabees wandering the aisles, hiding until they can clock out instead of restocking so I don't have one more thing to trash HD for...


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## mpgumm (Apr 10, 2009)

*Dunn Edwards????*

So this the first time I have herd of Dunn Edwards. So do they make a good semi or solid stain. Also does it come in Oil based? Some people have told me it is hard to get oil stains because of the enviromental thing. I still am asuming that the oil is better. Let me know more about Dunn Edwars. Also how does it compare to Sikkens? Because I have herd alot of good about Sikkens and haven't herd anything bad yet. Let me know please, getting close to stain time.


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## mpgumm (Apr 10, 2009)

This is for Scuba Dave. I see your name has Scuba in it, I am assuming you are into scuba diving. My wife and I are planning on going to Beliez in a week and go scuba diving. Have you been or herd anything about Beliez? We are planning staying near San Pedro on the Ambergris Caye. Just a shot in the dark, but if you know anything let me know.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Here's another thread you may be interested in:

Anyone been to Belize? It's in the 'Off Topic' forum


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

mpgumm said:


> This is for Scuba Dave. I see your name has Scuba in it, I am assuming you are into scuba diving. My wife and I are planning on going to Beliez in a week and go scuba diving. Have you been or herd anything about Beliez? We are planning staying near San Pedro on the Ambergris Caye. Just a shot in the dark, but if you know anything let me know.


I haven't been there
My favorite destination is Cozumel - drift diving
Usually an hour dive min, I've gone close to 90 minutes on 1 tank
We dive with an operator my friend knows, been going for over 10 years. Once he knows you & abilities you dive your computer. You only go up when your run out of air

Much better then diving at home


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## DIYtestdummy (Jan 16, 2008)

mpgumm said:


> So this the first time I have herd of Dunn Edwards. So do they make a good semi or solid stain. Also does it come in Oil based? Some people have told me it is hard to get oil stains because of the enviromental thing. I still am asuming that the oil is better. Let me know more about Dunn Edwars. Also how does it compare to Sikkens? Because I have herd alot of good about Sikkens and haven't herd anything bad yet. Let me know please, getting close to stain time.


 
Don't know about stain - never needed that much, but they will make anything you want, match anything better than HD does with Behr (yes, another gripe), and they will put a rush on your order even when you don't need it. Oh, and they sell the BIG 25' rolls of 3 mil plastic drop cloth for $6 all day, every day, compared to $20-30 at HD.


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## LookoutRanch (Apr 20, 2009)

I've been using Behr paints and stains for years and have had always had a good impression of them. I'm not a professional, but we've remodeled a couple of houses and have a rental, so we do quite a bit of painting, inside and out, and Behr has (almost) always served me well.

The one real bad experience was a year or so ago when we bought a gallon of some special "kitchen and bath" formula that was supposed to prevent mildew. It was pretty bad. It didn't cover well at all, so we went back to our old standby, semi-gloss enamel.


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## sagechickie (Apr 18, 2009)

this may be too late but here goes. i had thought behr was good paint and mostly i had good luck with it, no complaints. However, last year we painted in our new ICF home and had some odd things happen. we thought we had done something wrong in prep (we used quality primer). now it looks like it was the paint. I also had bought a bucket of Kilz primer that was lumpy. i had to pick lumps off rollers and the wall.


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

so what happened to the BEHR rep?? hope he didn't get fired for starting this storm. from what i can see; Behr/HD spend their money on advertising/product placement[in this case at wrong price point] and not on quality or training of their sales people.


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## JMoss1980 (Apr 25, 2009)

Jacques said:


> ...Behr/HD spend their money on advertising/product placement[in this case at wrong price point] and not on quality or training of their sales people.


Sadly the paint manufacturers have nothing to do with Home Depot or Lowe's employee-wise. 

It's tough to get good training in when the turnover is so high in the retail stores. And more often than not, you don't have paint department associates covering the department all the time, it's more like the guy from flooring, or Home Decor or w/e...


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## Shamrock (May 12, 2009)

*Why the Hell didn't I Find this Forum First!!*

Just bought a condo which is painted all white interior and am in the process of repainting each room. I'm currently on the living room (my first room) and have just bought my third can of Behr eggshell for $25 - I figured 2 cans would do the job - wrong. The stuff is so thick I can't believe it - it's like molasses in January. And even with that it still isn't covering properly. I am constantly having to go back over faint white spots. I have tried rollers up to 3/4 inch but it still leaves white spots. I hate it. 

In that price range, which I don't regard as being cheap, where do I turn for the rest of my job? BM, SW, Other?- are BM & SW in that range? How about the big competition - Valspar at Lowes - is it worth a try? My goal is to find a paint that is thinner, that will cover well and won't leave me with a sore arm when I finish the day. Please let me have some suggestions. I don't want to make a career of this - I'd like to finish reasonably quickly!


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

In that price range, which I don't regard as being cheap, where do I turn for the rest of my job? BM, SW, Other?- 


Most ANYTHING would be better than behr. Avoid the big box places( valspare, etc,) and go to ANY real paintstore and tell them what you are doing and what they recommend


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## BMDealer (Dec 9, 2008)

Shamrock said:


> In that price range, which I don't regard as being cheap, where do I turn for the rest of my job? BM, SW, Other?- are BM & SW in that range? How about the big competition - Valspar at Lowes - is it worth a try? My goal is to find a paint that is thinner, that will cover well and won't leave me with a sore arm when I finish the day. Please let me have some suggestions. I don't want to make a career of this - I'd like to finish reasonably quickly!


Well in that price range you may want to try Ben Moore's new Ben line. So far we have had nothing but great reviews from those that have used it. Covers great, waterborne, low voc, and it falls with in the Behr price range. Figure on paying anywhere from $28 to $30 for a can of eggshell. In my biased opinion it will be worth the extra few bucks.......


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## toocheaptohire (Mar 25, 2009)

I'll add my two cents as a recent convert to "you get what you pay for" - used Behr for several years since it was readily available every day at HD and I wasn't going to get suckered into overpaying for that "fancy" expensive stuff like BM or SW. Reading this and other threads convinced me to test the theory and I bought SW ceiling (Pro 200 or something like that) and wall (Duration) paint for basement project (4 rooms). Holy s#*@! Big difference and I'm never going back to Behr or anything like it. I gave the guys at SW my square ft dimensions and was surprised at how few cans they said I needed, but I went with it. Turns out, you get what you pay for since SW covered more than twice as well as Behr and the visual results are not comparable. Biggest difference was the ceiling paint - Behr ceiling paint (purchased fall 2007) was WATER (worst I ever seen) and it drove me to tears when I put it up on all the first floor ceiling - had to have a pro come in after and spray a super light texture to cover up the disasterous job Behr did on the ceilings (after trying to cover with 3 coats). At the time, I was too heartbroken and physically tired to even complain to Behr (but I guess I am now). Wall paint wasn't quite as bad, but due to coverage alone, I spent less on SW so I guess I was suckered after all. At least I now know better. 

Thanks for the advice, painting community - I'll keep listening!


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## Christy-Spencer (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow, what a beating. I feel bad for the guy from Behr.

I did buy a can to repaint a door and it went on OK, but I used a brush and only put on a thick coat.

It is good to be able to put on a thick coat, since it will have a smoother texture when it dries.

What brand of paint do the people on the forum like?

What does Home Depot sell that is decent quality?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

What does Home Depot sell that is decent quality? 


_NONE :laughing:_


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## beachnik (May 29, 2009)

Matthewt1970 said:


> Ya sure pal. People are just flooding forums with complaints about Benjamin Moore paint sagging, too thick, *white not covering white*, peeling and that it stinks.


I got a good chuckle out of this.

I've had some acceptable experiences with Behr paint, but I've had a really bad experience with their whites.

I bought pre-hung, pre-primed interior doors for a remodel. They came from Home Depot. I had the doors flat on saw horses - that allowed me to go really heavy with the Behr Premium Plus 'Ultra Pure White' semi-gloss (this is not the newer nano technology stuff). I couldn't believe that after the first coat - I could see streaking. White on white - streaking. What was even more amazing was that by the end of the third coat I could still see streaking!

I've explained elsewhere that I continue to use Behr paint. It works for me because I'm always using the same color to clean up rentals between tenants.

I had some tenants move into a unit and ask me if they could paint the walls brown. Reluctantly, I allowed them to paint. I told them they'd have to either paint the walls white upon vacating or pay a painter to do the work. Upon vacating, they opted to paint the walls themselves - using Behr Ultra Pure White. By the time they got to the 3rd or 4th coat, they were fit to be tied - they couldn't believe that the walls were still streaked.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I've been painting for the past 2 days, sort of a test
Behr paint went on thick (4 doors), had to watch for sags, even painting thin coats

I also tried the same paint (w/brush) in a small triangle in the basement stairway
I then tried some Glidden in the basement stairway
It wasn't that big of an area so I was going to use a roller
But there is trim to go around, railing etc
So I used the same brush I used w/Behr paint - wasn't looking forward to it
The Glidden went on like a dream, smooth & no sags
It went very quickly & I was done in no time - 1 coat
I had blue magic marker on the wall, figured I'd need 2 coats - like Behr
The Glidden covered it & all the other marks in the stairway
I'll need to 2x check once it dries
The difference between these 2 paints is day & night

Glidden America' Finest - 12 year paint
Interior Latex Semi-gloss Enamel - off-white

Behr Premium Plus - Lifetime Guarantee
Interior Latex Enamel Semi-gloss Ultra Pure White #3050

so.........what are the differences?
Why does Glidden work so well?
I was thinking the Glidden was low-cost (less $$ then Behr as I remember) & would not be that great. That's why I used it in the basement stairway 

I did an Inventory of my paint & put it in an Excel spreadsheet
I'm now going to go back & compare projects to the paint I used
I already know right off the bat 2 projects that were Behr that sagged & ran. Then I'm going to send it off to Behr in reply to an E-mail they sent me & see what happens as far as their warranty/gaurantee


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

OH yeah..I forgot an important part to all this paint stuff: Good luck trying to get a paint company to admit their paint wasn't up to your task...no, no it's the paint brush, it's bad prep, it's the surface, you should have used this type of paint, or this type of primer...always so easy to point the finger at something else. Too many affecting parameters. 

If worse comes to worse they give you another gallon to prevent you from slamming their name around.

Little liability = more scratch in the bank.:laughing:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

As a follow up the blue magic marker did come thru the paint as I thought it would. I can also barely see some of the dark black marks along the handrail area. But for the most part the Glidden covered everything with 1 coat of paint, It would take a few minutes to touch up the few marks. 
The door was covered completely in one coat
The Glidden went on smoothly & easily, no sagging

Since this was only a test & I actually want the basement stairway area white (not off-white) I'll put a coat of white in sometime in the future. Might be a few years - after it gets banged up some more

Compare this to the Behr - 2 coats to cover my doors & the wall in the same area. There was simply no way to use 1 coat or go back & touch up. So Behr needs 2x as much paint & 2x as much time to do the same thing
Plus Behr is thicker, does not spread as easily & sags

Both paints were mixed thoroughly, same brush was used for both. Both were purchased around the same time


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## GeneSilman (Aug 27, 2008)

My wife and I recently purchased 4 gallons of Behr Paint & Primer to paint our bedroom. We've installed new baseboard and a nice crown molding. The ceiling was painted with Behr ceiling paint and walls with eggshell finish. The trim was painted with Ultra Pure White. 
The room originally was white gloss but after an application of TPST the gloss was removed and the walls seemed ready for paint. Both the crown and base were factory primed and we were told at the retailer we would not need to apply primer, in fact he removed the two gallons of Kilz we had in our basket and replaced it with Behr's product. 

Average temperature of room since project started: 85+ miserable degrees and dry as the desert. 

The first part of the room we painted was the crown and base which seemed to apply very nice, this was sprayed on thinned with water. We waited 4 days then masked the trim for wall and ceiling paint. 
Next we painted the ceiling, it took 3 coats to cover the white but we finally achieved the desired color, this was rolled on and not thinned. 
4 days later we painted the walls. Again about 3 coats on white we were finally able to get the desired color. Because of our work schedule we ended up adding a coat every 2 days, this was rolled on as well and nothing was added to the paint. 

Approximately 5 days after the final coat was applied we started to remove the masking tape. The first thing I noticed was the Ultra Pure white on the trim coming off with the tape. The walls are also peeling with the tape. 
Out of curiosity I scratched a section of my wall to see if I could start peeling the paint. Sure enough the paint will peel anywhere I decide to peel it up. I was able to peel off a section of 5 day old paint about 8 inches by 7 inches. 

The ceiling does not appear to be peeling near as bad. I installed pre-hung doors with a factory primer and they too seem to be holding the paint rather well. 

At this point I am not sure what I can do since sanding is not an option with the paint gumming my sanding discs. I am going on 4 1/2 weeks now of painting this room and now we are wondering if we have to replace the drywall and start from scratch.

Lesson learned I guess.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

That's sad...I couldn't help but think to myself that if I were me doing that exact same job for pay, I would have taken about a week to do all that with a roller/brush, and depending on the size of the room. Probably no more than 2 coats of paint maybe a primer depending on the colours. But I also can't help thinking that you had most of your problems of hiding and peeling because of inferior paint. I mean yes there may be issue with improper TSP rinsing or using the wrong masking tape or something but I also don't remember the last time it took me three coats to do _anything_...but then again I use BM because now I know the difference.

They may claim the paint shouldn't have been thinned...and may have something there. Don't know if that type is suitable for spraying/thinning...

That's what HD will claim and maybe they'll refund you something but good luck.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Masking tape or painters tape?

But I think a painter said that you can't tape new paint ?
IE that it will peel


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## GeneSilman (Aug 27, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Masking tape or painters tape?
> 
> But I think a painter said that you can't tape new paint ?
> IE that it will peel


I used the blue painters tape. I learned my lesson years ago trying to use the beige tape...what a bad choice that was. 
After reading some of the other posts in here it seems I can avoid tape all together by practicing my brush techniques. I am not aware of not being able to tape new paint. From my years in construction I've always seen pro painters taping their previous work prepping for spray. 

I think with Behr's peeling characteristics it would make for a great BBQ or boat cover since it creates nice latex sheets that can easily be removed when needed.


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

You should wait 30 days to tape latex to allow for curing. Oil base takes longer.


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## Justabottle (Jul 9, 2009)

As a long time paint dealer/consultant I would recommend you purchase some Cabot, Benjamin Moore, Sikkens and Wolman.

Test them in the lab and duplicate.

Problems solved.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I just had some Behr interior trim paint peel off in a large circle
It was painted about 4 years ago


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## affirmed (Aug 1, 2009)

The Behr Ultra performs as well as the Home Duration or Aura at a much better price.


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

affirmed said:


> The Behr Ultra performs as well as the Home Duration or Aura at a much better price.


It's a brand new product and I would hope Behr has learned something from their previous failures, but until it's been in use for at least five years that statement has no validity. In the meantime, and because I warrant my work, I'll stick with paints I can trust.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

affirmed said:


> The Behr Ultra performs as well as the Home Duration or Aura at a much better price.


:laughing::laughing:


That statement is just plain and simple HORSE HOCKY, I have actually used this crap( not my choice) and it is actually worse than the original,if that is even possible. To put behr in the same sentence as duration and aura is ludicrous.


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

Then there's the old addage: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

I have a friend who swears by Behr paint, just loves it; but then she has never used much of anything else so she has nothing to compare it with, lol. 

Personally, ONCE WAS ENOUGH FOR ME. "Seeing is believing".


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

saggdevil said:


> Then there's the old addage: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
> 
> I would not argue that but come on, to equate Behr with Ben Moore and or Sherwin Williams just does not compute.


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

Behr has a great color selection but it stops there. It is definitely in a different category that than of good paint...almost to the point of being a different commodity.

It amazes me that there are some that have used Behr paint and still think it to be a great product, lol. It also amazes me that DIYers don't always take the advise of a pro when it comes to paint.

Btw...I am a diy'er but I can definitely tell the difference in Behr vs. SW and others.


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## 4ThGeneration (May 3, 2009)

affirmed said:


> The Behr Ultra performs as well as the Home Duration or Aura at a much better price.



come on man. You have one post thus far and it is to say Behr performs just as well as Duration Home or Aura?

You must be smoking some real illegal buds man. HD paint does sag...a lot, so if you are not accustomed to checking, checking and rechecking your work. The next day you come in will be prep day all over again.

HD makes a lot of different products. They do not concentrate on one item like SW or BM does. HD also has a lot of money to market their products. BM does not pop for a lot of marketing, but they do fine. SW is a monster in marketing, so SW gets notcied more. Does that mean SW is better? Not at all.

I guess it is like the Greek Orthodox Church which spawned the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC has been around for ages. Does that mean they are the only Church with the ultimate truth because of age? Not at all.

So, before you go spewing on how Behr is the tops and you throw rocks at SW and BM, get more educated on the subject please. If you do not like this opinion of mine. then go ahead and put in 18 years of adult life in the painting field as well as applying coats since you were 5 years old up to the age of 18 on weekends and summers. THEN get back to me. My Family has been using BM paints since the 50's and SW since the very early 20th century. They used Dutch Boy, P & L, Blair-Jones for Industrial and commercial, ICI, Glidden and the other major players. Did you see Behr on the resume'? Not at all. We would have been laughed out of the assembly of sub contractors guild.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls"


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