# painting over soot damage



## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

hi, recently I had a fireplace back up with two artificial logs burning in it. the damper was open, but the fire started so fast smoke backed up into the house. The insurance co hired a large reputable cleaner to come in do a clean up. chem sponges were used followed by professional cleaning agents (there own brand). they did a great 8 day job. It looks like a repaint is in order to cover many remaining stains. 

I am sure the ins adjuster will ok the job, he said they may just pay me to do the job, which is what i want to do anyway. 

My plan is to rewash the wall, and paint. i will spot any stains with kilz first. the ceilings I think should be all primmed with kilz and then painted.

any suggestion for idea and products to use?

thanks,

bernie


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

bernie963 said:


> hi, recently I had a fireplace back up with two artificial logs burning in it. the damper was open, but the fire started so fast smoke backed up into the house. The insurance co hired a large reputable cleaner to come in do a clean up. chem sponges were used followed by professional cleaning agents (there own brand). they did a great 8 day job. It looks like a repaint is in order to cover many remaining stains.
> 
> I am sure the ins adjuster will ok the job, he said they may just pay me to do the job, which is what i want to do anyway.
> 
> ...


 
Well, first thing is forget the Kilz, IMHO over rated and just as much overpriced. Go with Zinsser BIN tinted shellac. Not the water based 123 they have. BIN cleans up with alcohol or ammonia, not soap and water.
Top coat with what ever you want.
Good Luck


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

jschaben said:


> Well, first thing is forget the Kilz, IMHO over rated and just as much overpriced. Go with Zinsser BIN tinted shellac. Not the water based 123 they have. BIN cleans up with alcohol or ammonia, not soap and water.
> Top coat with what ever you want.
> Good Luck


Absolutely. BIN is the industry standard for smoke damage.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

In this case, use TSP to wash.

Then THREE FULL rinses with water.
Let dry a day or so.

Then DEFINITELY haul out the BIN!!!
I'd do 2 coats of BIN...serious...to guard against any odors.

Then paint to your hearts content!

YEP...pretend Kilz doesn't exist. It doesn't hold a candle to Zinsser primers.

Faron


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Faron79 said:


> In this case, use TSP to wash.
> 
> Then THREE FULL rinses with water.
> Let dry a day or so.
> ...


 
All of what he said! :thumbup::yes::thumbsup::laughing:


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

thanks for all of the advise and happy new year to all.

Over the next few weeks I will begin the process. I have decided to wash the walls with dirtex powder and rinse well. Prime walls w bin 123 (alcohol base) then paint w benny moore or sw.

the textured ceilings have me wondering how to wash them?? what is the best way to wash ceilings? I know they must be done first, before the walls.

any areas after washing (both walls and ceilings) I am going to double prime with the bin. I don't think it will be necessary to double prime the whole wall.

thanks,

bernie


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Are your ceilings smooth or popcorn?

Faron


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

Neither. It is textured I think by the application of the plaster skim coat when built. They worked a trowell around as they applied the skim coat. I wished I knew what the technique is called, but I supect I will find out shortly!!!

thanks,

bernie


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I see no reason at all to double prime, what's the point?:huh:


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

tnx,

1 coat it is, less work for me. Still, how do I wash the textured ceilings?

bernie


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I wouldn't bother, clean with a vacuum cleaner or broom.


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

good morning, just rereading everything. I mis-spoke in one of my posts. I will be using bin alcohol based shellac, not 123. I should vac and brush the ceilings and prime once. I will wash walls w dirtex, rinse well and prime. 4 rooms, which are the most recently painted I may not prime as I see no real soot damage. I do have enough paint left from before to freshen them up. The other 6 rooms, and halls as well as all of the ceiling get the full treatment. then i start the trim.

thanks

bernie


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

getting closer to starting the job. all the snow and cold has been getting in the way. went to SW today, they have their own brand of alcohol based shellac, (bin). Is it any good? how does it compare to bin? SW is $5 more a gal. 44 vs 39. 

at this point i am leaning toward benny moore based on price. hope to start prep in a week or so, then prime. paint will wait for color choices.

thanks,

bernie.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a question? Why, if the ins co hired a professional cleaning crew who specialize in cleaning smoke/soot damage, and they used used chemical sponges, and then washed with a professional soot cleaning agent, are you going to wash the walls? BIN, which as matt stated, is the industry standard for covering soot, will adeqautely cover any residual soot stain and mask any odor. If you're interested in less work, which I can understand, why are you planning to re-work someone else's? Especially when they did a great job. I honestly think the amount of work involved in washing AND rinsing ceilings and walls IN SIX ROOMS, and from washing walls after wallpaper removal my whole life I can say is no picnic, today included, is not worth the small contribution, if any, it will have on the outcome of the job. Given all that, can someone justify it for me? The smarter we work, the less hard it will be.
Joe
DiyPaintingGuide.org
BTW Rooms are washed with cleaning agents from the base up, else the cleaner will streak down the walls.


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

the reason for rewashing was confirmed by others on this site. I am only going to rewash the walls and vacuum the ceiling before Bin primmer.

Is the SW "bin" as good or better than the real BIN itself?????

thanks for the labor saving suggestion.

bernie


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Bernie, I've read the thread and I'm not trying to fight with you. Honestly, I've been around this business a long time. I don't see the value of the task, not at all. Trust the process and the material. Trust that the insurance co knows this company, as they're liable to you to clean the job and if it isn't done properly they have to pay again to have it redone, trust that the professionals did their job, and finally, trust that the Zinsser BIN will do its job. You'll be fine. I'm going to put a coat of Zinsser Cover Stain over walls that have residual wallpaper glue on them to act as a barrier between the water soluble residue and the latex topcoat. It will do its job, and I'll be fine. That's what the BIN is designed to do, cover the stuff you're now left with after the cleaners are gone. The question I asked was, What further benefit will re-washing the walls give you? That wasn't answered by the thread. Zinsser is to shellac (alcohol) as Kleenex is to tissue. Buy your BIN at home depot, it's cheaper. 
Respectfully
A contractor buddy of mine had a furnace back up which created a similar problem for him. Same deal. Same procedure. He hired his brother in law painter, who after the cleaners left, just put two coats of latex, no BIN, and he was fine. He trusted part of the process. I advised against the course but that's what they did. You'll be fine, save your back. Use the BIN though. Call Zinsser to settle your mind.
I'm being so persistent because I don't believe you understand what you're taking on.


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

imho if they cleaned surface then its clean enough. i doubt they will pay you for re doing it . also bin shellac base is the way to go. one coat will be perfect if you do it right and apply at proper spread rates . personally i would you use zinsser cover stain oil imo it has more body and though it not be a joy to use i think it easier to use than bin. ps. if it were me i would let restoration company do it all .


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

You can't use Cover Stain over soot, it will bleed and it won't block odor.
I just figured out what IMHO stands for. I'm a forum newbie.


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

thanks to all.

buying 10 gal of bin tomorrow before the price goes up any more. after the first two rooms are primmed I will be back on to ask about finish coats. The family room/ kitchen is where the fireplace is located.(one continuous ceiling connects them) and the dinning room took the hardest hit, so they are first. That is just over half of the first floor. No more washing, just a few cornore cracks to fix. wish me luck, let the games begin. 

Bernie


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## bernie963 (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks to all of the advise, room 1 is done. 2+ gallons of bin. most on the ceiling. this ceiling has not been painted in 25 years so it soaked it right up. the walls and trim used what i expected. bin is runny and skins over fast. easy to clean w alcohol. 2 coats of BM regal eggshell and BM semi gloss for trim. the dinning room never looked better. now on to the family room and kitchen.

The family room and kitchen was painted about 3 years ago. So now on the next question. When I last did it I used BM flat contractors grade on the walls. It is Aztec White (Light tan to me). The family wants a slightly darker tan so here i go with my plan. One coat of Bin. One coat of the aztec white flat ( I have 2 unopened gallons) as a first coat, and then the final coat of the corect color of regal, egg shell. Or should I bite the bullet and go with 2 coats of regal instead. Any thoughts.

bernie


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

The aztec may help, or it may just be a wasted step. It really needs to be 1 shade off the final color to work.


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## Ole34 (Jan 31, 2011)

bernie963 said:


> The family wants a slightly darker tan so here i go with my plan. One coat of Bin. One coat of the aztec white flat ( I have 2 unopened gallons) as a first coat, and then the final coat of the corect color of regal, egg shell. Or should I bite the bullet and go with 2 coats of regal instead. Any thoughts.
> 
> bernie


 

youll have to do 2 coats of the finish anyway cause its an enamel and enamels need 2 coats...............roll and cut the 2nd coat 1 wall at a time


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

One coat of eggshell over flat will not develop its true sheen, as the flat will absorb some of the sheen. That is what primer/sealers are for, to provide enamel holdout, it will not absorb any sheen. the BIN primer will do that. any paint, even aura, does not develop its true finish, color or sheen, in a one coat application, none. the first coat seals, the second coat lays down the finish. Just pointed this out to my helper the other day. The second coat cut of dark brown Aura was a world away from the first coat roll. Bernie, maybe you could use the Aztec White on the ceilings.


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## Trakay1 (Jun 21, 2011)

*painting soot in fireplace*

what is the best way to clean the soot out of your fireplace? Or, can I just paint over the soot? We have gas logs and an old fireplace. Looking at painting the inside black. Can you give me some help on what to do?


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