# Sump Pump Gurgling



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Only need one check valve at the pump.
Why the AAV?


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

There's a vacuum forming, causing the gurgling. I drilled a hole in the pipe outside the house before installing the AAV and you could hear a whistle as the air was sucked in. How do I counteract this vacuum?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Like Joe said, you only need one check valve near the pump. Are you using the check valves to keep the pipes full of water?


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes, but the noise is still coming from the small section between check valves.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

This is a guess not knowing the check valves installed. Since the 2nd and 3rd valves are mounted horizontally, I suspect water is still getting past the flappers. You don't need an AAV.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

An AAV is worthless in your situation. They seal up tight with positive pressure. Remove all the extra check valves and get a good solid one by the pit above it would be best in a vertical position. It also helps to drain the pipe toward its point of disposal once you turn horizontal.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

The AAV is at least helping to release the vacuum and eliminate some but not all of the gurgling. The system originally had only 1 check valve about 1 foot above the pit. The other valves were added in later to address the gurgling noise.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Water is getting past one of the check valves sine you are hearing air get sucked in.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

I was under the impression that any drain required air to be admitted into the system or it would not function properly. This system is independent of the household plumbing and not connected to a stack or any other vent.

A friend who was a former plumber told me drains hate 90 degree bends and to either install 45's, use flex pipe, or extend the pipe and elbows to outside the house to eliminate the noise.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

A gravity drain needs air like you house drains. Your sump pump is mechanical. The water is being pushed out. Adding air adds noise. Stop the pump and the water stops. Water is getting past your check valves and that is creating the vacuum. Check your valves to see if the work in a horizontal application.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm positive it's not the check valves. The problem existed before those were ever installed.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Assuming the vertical check valve is functioning, prior to adding the horizontal check valves any remaining water in the horizontal piping would drain out from gravity. Once a big enough air bubble got into the pipes, it would drain most of the water. When the pump started up, sloshing sounds.

If you put in check valves that aren't suited for horizontal use, nothing has changed and the water is still draining from the horizontal pipes.

One way to test this is to run the pump until you have water coming out of the discharge. Turn off the pump wait 10-15 seconds for the water in the vertical pipe outside to empty. Stick a bucket under the pipe and wait. See if a water fills the bucket. Also check the vertical valve by running the pump and shutting it off. Listen for water running back into the sump.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Are they swing checks or spring checks?
A simple one like this is what you should have.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/flotec...f=0&lpq=check+valve+for+sump+pump&FORM=CMSMEE


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

matt151617 said:


> The AAV is at least helping to release the vacuum and eliminate some but not all of the gurgling. The system originally had only 1 check valve about 1 foot above the pit. The other valves were added in later to address the gurgling noise.


When your pump fires the AAV will close as it is designed to do.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

matt151617 said:


> I was under the impression that any drain required air to be admitted into the system or it would not function properly. This system is independent of the household plumbing and not connected to a stack or any other vent.
> 
> A friend who was a former plumber told me drains hate 90 degree bends and to either install 45's, use flex pipe, or extend the pipe and elbows to outside the house to eliminate the noise.


A sump discharge is not a drain. It is a pressurized discharge.


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## fetzer85 (Dec 4, 2009)

Your horizontal checks are doing nothing because after each one you have an elbow going down. Water would rather go forward & down than backward against more water. As everyone said you should remove those two as well as the AAV. This is not a DWV application so AAV's need not apply. 

Are you in the basement when you hear these sounds or on the first floor?


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

The sounds are very obvious from the entire first floor (it's only a 1 story house). 

So say I remove the 2 horizontal check valves and the AAV. I'm back to square one and there's still a ton of noise. The system is apparently too long to function as a pressurized drain because the water coming out in the front yard is not pressurized, just gravity draining. Would a bigger pipe diameter once it exits the house solve the problem?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

matt151617 said:


> The sounds are very obvious from the entire first floor (it's only a 1 story house).
> 
> So say I remove the 2 horizontal check valves and the AAV. I'm back to square one and there's still a ton of noise. The system is apparently too long to function as a pressurized drain because the water coming out in the front yard is not pressurized, just gravity draining. Would a bigger pipe diameter once it exits the house solve the problem?


Bigger pipe won't fix the problem. Have you checked the check valves to see if they can be used in a horizontal application. Not all will work horizontally.


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## fetzer85 (Dec 4, 2009)

I think we've reached a point where pictures are really going to help us help you solve your problem. Could you take a few pics - a close up of the pit/pump/check, a wider shot of the piping, a close up of the horizontal check in the basement, where it exits the basement, where it emerges outside, the outside check, and where it ends? Sounds like a lot to do but I truly think it will help us all. :thumbup:


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

First picture is a flap-style check valve a couple feet above pit. Second is the length of pipe in the basement, about 20 feet long. Third is the 2 elbows where it exits the foundation. Fourth is a spring-style check valve on the line before the elbows. Fifth is the AAV on a riser so it doesn't get buried under snow, and another flap-style check valve just after it. And the last picture is where it drains in the front yard- approximately 80 feet away after another elbow.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Perhaps you should pitch the nice pipe towards the outside of the house and remove the checks. Except for the one at the sump. It would also help if you got it out of your house quicker.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

I was thinking make sure the pipe inside the basement is sloped... go straight through the outside of the house, bend 45 degrees into the ground, and then connect another 45 to the pipe in the ground. Wouldn't look pretty but it might work. 

That or do the 45s inside the basement


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

If I understand your original problem, you want to eliminate the water noise when the pump starts. This is done by keeping the pipe full of water. If that is still true, you need to slope the pipe towards the pump so the water does not drain out from gravity. Or you could have the pipe turn up then go down at the end of the pipe before it goes out the wall. This would create a physical barrier to keep the water in the pipe.

Ignore the dots. The lines represent the pipe.
................__
__________| |
...................|
...................|______


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

I'd like to just eliminate the noise problems, which come about from the vacuum being created. I'm guessing because of the length of the pipe, the pump becomes ineffective at some point and gravity takes over.


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## fetzer85 (Dec 4, 2009)

I wonder if placing a spring check valve at the very end of the line would help? I've never seen it done that way but it might ensure that your line stays full of water.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Another thing I'm considering... if the piece of pipe that run between the elbow in the yard and the elbow in the basement was slightly off-level in the wrong direction, would that cause this?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

matt151617 said:


> Another thing I'm considering... if the piece of pipe that run between the elbow in the yard and the elbow in the basement was slightly off-level in the wrong direction, would that cause this?


It wouldn't matter. If all of your check valves are working, no water should leak out of the pipes when the pump shuts off. If the pipes are full, then there will be no start up noise.


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## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

My main concern is addressing the vacuum and air getting pulled back in, I have a feeling if this was gone then the start-up noise would be gone also. I think it's the trapped air making the noise.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

matt151617 said:


> My main concern is addressing the vacuum and air getting pulled back in, I have a feeling if this was gone then the start-up noise would be gone also. I think it's the trapped air making the noise.


Points back to a check valve that is allowing water to leave the pipe.


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## seb2441 (Mar 23, 2014)

nice threads ! thanks for all your help... got similar problem except that I have 2 pumps.... .one of the 45 above one of the pump is leaking... look like pvc glue not holding anymore... anyhow could a small air leak create a vacuum therefore create that gurgling sound at the outside exit pipe ???


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