# Corner Knives - Good? Bad?



## Oh-Fudge (Sep 1, 2011)

Just wanted to get an opinion from the pros, do "real" drywallers use the corner knives or do you do corners with a straight 6" knife?

I am a homeowner who might do drywall once every few years when I get a bug to remodel something. Never could get the hang of taping and mudding and hate it with a passion. I admire the pros who can get a smooth finish without even sanding. Thanks!


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## Rehabber (Dec 29, 2005)

I am not a drywall pro, but I do drywall/repairs on a regular basis. I use a corner tool for corners. It makes it a lot easier for me.


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

Corner trowels are for amateurs who do not care about quality. Honestly its easier to just do it right. Use a four inch knife and paper tape. Apply even coat of mud to each side of the corner. Be sure to fill the gaps, then fold paper tape down the crease and push into the corner. Use your knife to pull excess mud out of each side, one at a time. Once the tape drys coat one side of the corner at a time until its ready for sanding. After your first corner you will be a better drywaller than a guy who uses a corner trowel for a lifetime.


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## 1910NE (Sep 5, 2010)

Also not a pro...I use a corner knife to get the mud up on the wall and evenly applied. Then a 4 inch knife to press the tape in/ push the excess mud out. After that its all straight knives..


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

I am not a pro drywaller, however I do a fair bit of small boarding jobs and repairs.

I used to use a corner trowell for all my corners, then one day tried my taping knife. Found it much easier and smoother than the corner trowell, now I just use my taping knife for everything.


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

I'm with Chris: I use a 7" taping knife - I prefer it. I use the plastic ones, too - because they have a rounded corner on them and don't tear the paper. Metal knives have a sharp 90-corner and gouge and shred paper, I hate that.

If my house was a bit more square and plumb I'd use metal corner beads with a paper strip and just tack them up with a roller like the pros do. I do use these on outside corners, though - love them - and a taping knife works fine here, too.

I hate plastic bead strips - it takes extra mud to cover them over.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I have a corner trowel I got in a box of misc. tools at auction. 
It's out in the shed..... somewhere.... probably still in that box..... it never came in the house at all during my drywalling stage. In the time it would have taken me to find it, I had already done the corners...... :laughing:

DM


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Rehabber said:


> I am not a drywall pro, but I do drywall/repairs on a regular basis. I use a corner tool for corners. It makes it a lot easier for me.


Ditto here.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> Corner trowels are for amateurs who do not care about quality. Honestly its easier to just do it right. Use a four inch knife and paper tape. Apply even coat of mud to each side of the corner. Be sure to fill the gaps, then fold paper tape down the crease and push into the corner. Use your knife to pull excess mud out of each side, one at a time. Once the tape drys coat one side of the corner at a time until its ready for sanding. After your first corner you will be a better drywaller than a guy who uses a corner trowel for a lifetime.


That's pretty presumptuous. :whistling2:


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> *Corner trowels are for amateurs who do not care about quality.* Honestly its easier to just do it right. Use a four inch knife and paper tape. Apply even coat of mud to each side of the corner. Be sure to fill the gaps, then fold paper tape down the crease and push into the corner. Use your knife to pull excess mud out of each side, one at a time. Once the tape drys coat one side of the corner at a time until its ready for sanding. *After your first corner you will be a better drywaller than a guy who uses a corner trowel for a lifetime*.


That's pretty presumptuous. :whistling2:


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## Marbledust (Jun 26, 2010)

regular knife to apply first coat of mud...corner tool to apply next 2 layers...saves time and comes out straight and smooth


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## jburchill (Oct 3, 2010)

Everyone is different and its a matter of choice and preference as long at the end results come out good.

I've used them on corners before to set the tape quicker then used a knife to apply pressure to squeeze the excess mud out. Then mud again with a knife.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

Marbledust said:


> regular knife to apply first coat of mud...corner tool to apply next 2 layers...saves time and comes out straight and smooth


My approach is the exact opposite, haha. I use the corner trowel to lay in the mud for the first coat. It gives me that nice straight line without fuss. Then I straight blade subsequent coats. I found the corner blade cumbersome after the first coat because the mud width becomes larger than the corner trowel to accommodate blending so you'll end up using the straight blade anyways.


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## Oh-Fudge (Sep 1, 2011)

Wow, seems to be a variety of opinions. This last project I used a straight knife for the corners and have to admit it looks better than using the corner knife. BUT, and a big but, doing one side at a time and waiting for each to dry before doing the other side, after 3 coats, is a royal PIA and waste of valuable time. I am taping the inside of a new 2'x3' closet and the close quarters make it hard to use the corner tool.

I can't believe in this day and age someone hasn't invented a better way to hang drywall. How about drywall tongue-and-groove? Or drywall caulk crack filler? Or roll-on seemless drywall (like rain gutters)?


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

Well I think it strongly depends on your overall approach to taping and your wall-surface/end look.

I texture my walls - so I've found that having a perfectly squared corner works against my efforts to do a skip texture.

If I was doing idyllic smooth walls any imperfection in a bead would work against me - I'd use other tools.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh-Fudge said:


> Wow, seems to be a variety of opinions. This last project I used a straight knife for the corners and have to admit it looks better than using the corner knife. BUT, and a big but, doing one side at a time and waiting for each to dry before doing the other side, after 3 coats, is a royal PIA and waste of valuable time. I am taping the inside of a new 2'x3' closet and the close quarters make it hard to use the corner tool.
> 
> I can't believe in this day and age someone hasn't invented a better way to hang drywall. How about drywall tongue-and-groove? Or drywall caulk crack filler? Or roll-on seemless drywall (like rain gutters)?


There actually IS now a better way for part of the process. It's called "Butt Boarding".


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## Marbledust (Jun 26, 2010)

????butt boarding....do tell!


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Marbledust said:


> ????butt boarding....do tell!


I hope that does not turn out to be a dangerous question to ask. :laughing:


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

It's a method using a tool called a 'butt-taper' - which is an angled wedge wheel that presses an adhesive onto the board joint which is cut into a trapezoidal dip of sorts before hanging.

I think that's what he's referring to - if not - then you just learned something new.


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## Oh-Fudge (Sep 1, 2011)

hahahaha, cool. But that still involves playing with mud. I just want a method where you can just stick it up like panelling - a few nails and poof, you're done.

Here is a video of the "butt taper". I especially like how the guy in the first video is fake hitting the wall to show how strong it is at the end :laughing:

http://www.butttaper.com/video.htm


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Snav said:


> It's a method using a tool called a 'butt-taper' - which is an angled wedge wheel that presses an adhesive onto the board joint which is cut into a trapezoidal dip of sorts before hanging.
> 
> I think that's what he's referring to - if not - then you just learned something new.


Well, "Yes" and "No". Mostly "No".

The Patented "Butt Taper" process involves buying an expensive roller tool. Butt Boards do not. (BTW, the Butt Taper tool does not cut the board at all... it just 'squishes' it down.)

The Patented "Butt Taper" process involves using water to soak and soften the edges of the drywall boards so that tool can 'squish' it. Butt Boards do not.

The Patented "Butt Taper" process involves extra steps of allowing the mud to dry before moving on to the next step. Butt Boards do not.

The Patented "Butt Taper" process, however, does not involve "_pressing an adhesive onto the board joint_"; and neither does Butt Boarding.

Butt Boarding DOES involve screwing in an extra plywood board similar to the way this step is shown in the Butt Taper video...... but using many less screws than shown in that video..... and with Butt Boarding, that is all you do differently from regular hanging and finishing.

The advantage to Butt Boarding over regular hanging is that you eliminate the need to try and 'feather out' the usual big bulge where the two butt ends of the boards meet.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Fudge,

If you have even a small bit of artistic flair in you, drywall finishing can be more than just fun; it can be very relaxing, therapeutic, and rewarding.

The trick is in learning that your intention is NOT to apply thick layers of mud to the walls. But rather to SPARINGLY and judiciously smooth on successive relatively thin layers of mud to eventually wind up with a built-up coat that completes and compliments the original smooth paper surface of the drywall boards.

You are not a pro trying to hustle the job to take home a fatter paycheck. You do not have to (and should not try to) emulate what you see them doing. You can, and should, relax and simply accept the fact that your drywall finishing job is going to take you a day or two longer than it would take a pro. So what? Do you know anyone who can match the speed of a pro at ANY job they have never done before?

Of course not! But you CAN come very close to duplicating the professional look of the finished job if you do little more than be careful, neat, and take your time.

And you will save a bundle of money!


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

:laughing:

So I was wrong


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

No, not "wrong", merely a little short on reading about the product to be fully informed.

Fudge - There are a couple of basics that will make your d/w finishing a whole lot easier. Some of these suggestions will sound silly and almost dumb, but they are so easily overlooked that they do bear mentioning.

The first thing to learn is that d/w mud is not really "ready-to-use" right out of the bucket. Just like paint, it needs to be thinned down some. In the case of mud, it needs about a cup of water added to the 5 gallon bucket. And you have to mix it in real, real good. When using the mud for the base coat under the tape (use only PAPER tape, BTW), it needs to be even sloppier (wetter).

Secondly, don't fill the hand pan all the way up. It makes it heavy, and you will get tired easier. And it also does not give you the necessary room to wipe the knife (trowel) off.

Wiping the knife off often and repeatedly is important. Keep it clean.

Also, work with only a 1/2" wide (or thereabouts) strip of mud right along the edge of the knife. You don't want , or need, a whole knife full of mud.

The angle (tilt) of the knife will give you different results. Experiment with this.

A knife held almost perpendicular to the surface of the board will fill dips and grooves more evenly than one held at an almost 'laid-down' attitude.

Always remember that the knife is flexible. It bends and bows. Pressure with a finger applied to one side or the other of the knife blade will exert more pressure on that side, and less pressure on the other side. This is something to experiment with when desiring to feather the current knife pass with the one you just made previously. Put pressure on the wrong side of the knife, and you will invariably 'groove' the wet mud on the board from your last pass. You often want that side of the knife with the least pressure to 'float' across the wet mud already there. It helps the two passes blend together better.

Keep cleaning that knife off! After every pass or two.

And throw away ALL the mud in your pan after each use. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES GET CHEAP AND TRY TO SAVE MONEY BY PUTTING *ANY* MUD BACK INTO THE BUCKET. *ALWAYS* *THROW IT AWAY!*

If you hear nothing I've said here, listen well to that last bit of advice! The crap is dirt cheap, and old, drying mud can mess up your job beyond belief. (That's one reason I told you to keep cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning your knife.) In fact, if you see that too much dried, clumpy mud is collecting on the edge of your hand pan, take your fingers and scrape it off those edges and throw it away.

Same thing with the bucket. Keep it clean. Don't allow streaks and clumps of mud to remain on the inside edges of the bucket. The mud will dry there into hard lumps that will eventually fall into the good mud. Scrape it clean each and every time you use it.

There are a lot more tips, but these will start you on the road to happy finishing.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh-Fudge said:


> I can't believe in this day and age someone hasn't invented a better way to hang drywall. How about drywall tongue-and-groove? Or drywall caulk crack filler? Or roll-on seemless drywall (like rain gutters)?


 
Wasn't that long ago that drywall was the new, improved easy technology:laughing: over plastering that is, which from what I gather is much more time/labour intensive, and needs a greater learning curve.

Maybe a plastic product, that clips in or something, will be the next desired wall finish material.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

chrisBC said:


> Maybe a plastic product, that clips in or something, will be the next desired wall finish material.


That's called FRP...but I don't think anyone wants that in their living room...

There is always the options of beadboard paneling and the other available patterns. Just nail up and paint...but a smooth surface will include mud.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

AGWhitehouse said:


> That's called FRP...but I don't think anyone wants that in their living room...
> 
> There is always the options of beadboard paneling and the other available patterns. Just nail up and paint...but a smooth surface will include mud.


 
Yes, I'm familiar with this.. what I was thinking of was office wall systems.

My point is that to think outside of the box a bit, I doubt drywall will be around forever, some new technology will come up, it always does. 

It just requires that you have to think outside of what you are familiar with presently.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

chrisBC said:


> Yes, I'm familiar with this.. what I was thinking of was office wall systems.
> 
> My point is that to think outside of the box a bit, I doubt drywall will be around forever, some new technology will come up, it always does.
> 
> It just requires that you have to think outside of what you are familiar with presently.


The sad thing about that is that usually the "new" technology is seldom as good as what it replaces. Just like drywall cannot hold a candle to the strength and quality of plaster.


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> That's pretty presumptuous. :whistling2:


Those are facts. I do this and so can anyone who really wants to.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> Those are facts. I do this and so can anyone who really wants to.


You're wrongly assuming that your opinions are facts.

Let me show a couple things you wrote that are absolutely false:

_"Corner trowels are for amateurs who do not care about quality." _
_
"After your first corner you will be a better drywaller than a guy who uses a corner trowel for a lifetime."_


Wrong and, well, wrong again... :no:


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

I have been drywalling for 10 years now. I do it myself and hire multiple different crews at any given time. Never once have I seen a professional using a corner trowel. Not even once. In fact I have never even seen one on a job site. Now I am not going to get into a throw it on the table match with anyone, I am simply sharing my experience. If it works for you great. I dismissed your technique so I understand how you would be compelled to dismiss mine, but it is just the way it is.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> I have been drywalling for 10 years now. I do it myself and hire multiple different crews at any given time. Never once have I seen a professional using a corner trowel. Not even once. In fact I have never even seen one on a job site. Now I am not going to get into a throw it on the table match with anyone, I am simply sharing my experience. If it works for you great. I dismissed your technique so I understand how you would be compelled to dismiss mine, but it is just the way it is.


It's perfectly fine for you to prefer one technique to another. But so say that those who don't do things the way you do are "amateurs who do not care about quality" is absurd.

Some people swear by tape, and others by mesh? Is somebody automatically wrong because they don't prefer what you do?


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> It's perfectly fine for you to prefer one technique to another. But so say that those who don't do things the way you do are "amateurs who do not care about quality" is absurd.
> 
> Some people swear by tape, and others by mesh? Is somebody automatically wrong because they don't prefer what you do?


Thankyou, and no. However when the subject is inside corners mesh has no place and nor does diyr corner knives. Thanks for your input.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Willie T said:


> The sad thing about that is that usually the "new" technology is seldom as good as what it replaces. Just like drywall cannot hold a candle to the strength and quality of plaster.


 
I agree, and also think it's too bad that the art of plastering is pretty much a thing of the past. I don't know anybody who has done a lot of it, other than repairs; often done with drywall and/or joint compound.


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

chrisBC said:


> I agree, and also think it's too bad that the art of plastering is pretty much a thing of the past. I don't know anybody who has done a lot of it, other than repairs; often done with drywall and/or joint compound.


We only have one plaster crew. Its two brothers and they're in there 60s. It is a pleasure to watch those guys operate.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> Never once have I seen a professional using a corner trowel. Not even once.


Me neither.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

OhioHomeDoctor said:


> We only have one plaster crew. Its two brothers and they're in there 60s. It is a pleasure to watch those guys operate.


 
yeah i'd like a chance to see the process from start to finish. Must be for restoration work I take it.


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## Oh-Fudge (Sep 1, 2011)

Willie T said:


> Fudge,
> 
> If you have even a small bit of artistic flair in you, drywall finishing can be more than just fun; it can be very relaxing, therapeutic, and rewarding


WillieT, sounds like you've flung some mud in your day. Thank you and everyone else very much for the advice. It all makes perfect sense. Yes, in days past I've tried to skimp and put unused mud back into the bucket only to have clumps in my joint lines the next time. As to mudding being therapeutic, well, lets agree to disagree on that one. I have very little spare time and waiting for several layers of mud to dry between coats is not very efficient for me. Maybe when I retire I can be more artistic.

As to corner knives/trowels, I think they are quicker and easier for the unskilled DIYer or maybe for rough stuff like garages or inside closets. But, it seems like a straight knife is the way to go for the pros and for a smoother finish. Does that make sense? I didn't mean to start a war here. I suppose if someone laid mud with a butter knife for 40 years they would be pretty good using a butter knife :001_tongue:


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Oh-Fudge said:


> WillieT, sounds like you've flung some mud in your day. Thank you and everyone else very much for the advice. It all makes perfect sense. Yes, in days past I've tried to skimp and put unused mud back into the bucket only to have clumps in my joint lines the next time. *As to mudding being therapeutic, well, lets agree to disagree on that one.* I have very little spare time and waiting for several layers of mud to dry between coats is not very efficient for me. Maybe when I retire I can be more artistic.
> 
> As to corner knives/trowels, I think they are quicker and easier for the unskilled DIYer or maybe for rough stuff like garages or inside closets. But, it seems like a straight knife is the way to go for the pros and for a smoother finish. Does that make sense? I didn't mean to start a war here. I suppose if someone laid mud with a butter knife for 40 years they would be pretty good using a butter knife :001_tongue:


Haha! I "flung some mud" this morning, and found it to be anything but therapeutic and relaxing. Not horrible, but certainly not therapy.

Maybe if I'd been able to use a corner knife instead of just my old 6" & 10" knives I could have _really_ enjoyed myself.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I did a small amount of finishing today, and I'm so happy, I have to sit on both hands to keep from waving at everyone I see.

Seriously, for a novice, I guess I'd recommend using the corner thing. Personally, they just mess up all my work.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Oh-Fudge said:


> WillieT, sounds like you've flung some mud in your day. Thank you and everyone else very much for the advice. It all makes perfect sense. Yes, in days past I've tried to skimp and put unused mud back into the bucket only to have clumps in my joint lines the next time. As to mudding being therapeutic, well, lets agree to disagree on that one. I have very little spare time and waiting for several layers of mud to dry between coats is not very efficient for me. Maybe when I retire I can be more artistic.
> 
> As to corner knives/trowels, I think they are quicker and easier for the unskilled DIYer or maybe for rough stuff like garages or inside closets. But, it seems like a straight knife is the way to go for the pros and for a smoother finish. Does that make sense? I didn't mean to start a war here. I suppose if someone laid mud with a butter knife for 40 years they would be pretty good using a butter:001_tongue: knife




There you go:yes::yes::thumbsup:


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Never use corner trowels, tried one once and threw it away. Some swear by them.....


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