# Sherwin Williams "ProMar 200" paint?



## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

Last year I hired a professional painter to do some interior painting. I offered to buy the paint since I usually use Benjamin Moore products and prefer to stay with one brand. He said he will only do it if he gets the paint and he always get top notch Sherwin Williams. I said OK.

So this week I need to repaint part of the kitchen window area and need to match his paint...which is WHITE.

I have several cans of different WHITE, from Ultra White, to Extra White, to Super White, to Ceiling White...and none of them matched his white. So I had to go to a Sherwin Williams store to get his white. I brought along the empty can he left. I only need a pint, but oh well, guess I will buy a full gallon.

I went into the store and showed them the can. They said no problem and punched into the computer, and he asked if I have a contractor account, I said no. He said thank you it will be $77.

$77 for a gallon of paint? What?

He said yes, the paint you have is very low grade paint only sold to contractors. If you don't have a contractor account it's being sold at list price which is $72 plus tax.

Huh?

I thought I was getting TOP NOTCH PAINT? So it's low grade paint? But it's $72 a gallon to DIYers? I didn't buy the paint and didn't want to sign up for a contractor account either.

The paint is called "SHERWIN WILLIAMS PROMAR 200 EXTRA WHITE 6501-872".

I don't have the painter's number anymore. Any idea if I can get the same WHITE to match this with a Benjamin Moore product? Heck even a Home Depot Behr would be easier to deal with!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

You have just discovered Sherwin's pricing tactic which is to markup a product 5x cost so then they can make you feel all warm and fuzzy by offering the monthly discount with







*50% discount*







.
Its called "anchor pricing" and technically illegal.
http://time.com/money/4171081/macys-jc-penney-lawsuit-original-prices/

disclaimer: I own a BM store so I will offer this advice: Don't shop with a company that will screw the little guy AND find a new painter he used low grade crap that's going to need a repaint in a year anyway! Really promar 200 is what college dorms paint with yearly after someone moves out. Complete Junk! Ask your BM store for a good reference for a decent painter.

If you want to match the paint your BM store perfect you will need a small sample of the paint either from the can or from your wall at least 1" square.

Plan on a full repaint in 1-2 years in any high traffic area. That paint is not designed to hold up over time, not washable, and will not touch up well.

PS If you want to know BM's equivalent paint that would be coronado SK1000 priced near $13 / gallon (your price, I will do a bit better for contractors lol)


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

will BM be able to match the same white color? I still have the can and it still has about 1/4" of wet paint in it. I thought WHITE is impossible to match?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

If its still wet in the can just have the store throw it in the shaker, mix that up really well and use that.

If you went to Homedepot you would have someone just stick a sample in the spectrophometer and get it 'close'. Its not 'impossible' but it does take someone who knows what they're doing (usually takes a few hours anyway). IE match the sheen, which is the hardest part, and matching color by eye. Honestly the hardest part to match will be the sheen because promar200 will vary quite a bit with its sheen, part of why this product will not 'touch up' well. Even out of the same can it may not touch up a year later though.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> IE match the sheen, which is the hardest part, and matching color by eye. Honestly the hardest part to match will be the sheen because promar200 will vary quite a bit with its sheen, part of why this product will not 'touch up' well. Even out of the same can it may not touch up a year later though.


As noted matching colors can usually be done, the hard part is getting the same sheen. While I wouldn't have any qualms about matching a competitors paint for repainting one wall, I would not use it for touch up!

I've used a lot of ProMar 200 for new residential and have always found it to be consistent and touched up well. I thought the $40 per gallon they currently charge me [retired] was outrageous, no way would I pay $72.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Your contractor should have allowed you to run your order through his account.  Then you would have received his "discount." You would then pay cash or put it on your credit card so he doesn't end up paying for it inadvertently.

And, I agree, ProMar is basic, run-of-the-mill contractor grade paint. I mostly use it for apartment repaints.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

I had to update my password just to put my two cents worth in. First off, don't feel bad that this happened to you because a vast majority of painters in this country that use Sherwin Williams for residential repaints do this. It is a classic bait and switch but tactic but unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it. They advertise that they use Sherwin Williams because SW has polished their reputation through the years and most consumers THINK they are a premium brand. The truth is, their advertising and marketing is the only QUALITY thing about them. Their paint is quite substandard and grossly over priced even at the contractor pricing. But how do you think they manage to open all of those nice stores and have all those $30,000,000.00 TV commercials? Because they are able to trick people into buying their cheap a55 paint at an ultra high price. Then they do you the favor of giving you a 40% discount off of their retail price that is a 500-600% mark-up over their cost. Gee whiz! What a DEAL!

And many painters, yours included, have learned how to take advantage of the scam as well. They work this to perfection. They live off of SW's bought reputation and make millions doing it. I sell Pratt & Lambert paints as one of my product lines. The P&L product that is marketed to be the equivalent to Promar 200 is Prohide Gold. I RETAIL this product for $28.99 and make a darn good profit doing it. And yet painters are loathe to leave the SW store and use it, even going so far as to tell everyone who asks them about it that it is "way overpriced" so they can basically keep up the SW scam. It is a scam that wouldn't be allowed in any other product type. If you paid a dealer $100,000.00 for a BMW and got a Kia, there would be lawsuits like crazy.

But there is essentially no one to complain about the SW scam to do anything about it! The painters aren't going to complain because they benefit greatly from it. And most homeowners such as yourself either don't know or care that it is going on!

I very strongly suggest finding a new painter that uses a real quality brand such as Benjamin Moore or Pratt & Lambert among many others and get the white matched. the SW whites, especially the "extra" white are extremely greyed off and are actually not that hard to match with a true white base like BM and P&L have. The sheen may be a problem but i can tell you that the P&L sheens match the SW sheens pretty closely so you may want to go that route if there is a P&L dealer near you.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Pro mar 200 is contractor grade. Definitely not top of the line. But yes, you should be able to purchase a new gallon under his company which would give you his "discount." Seriously, $72 for promar 200?????:surprise:

Personally, I am to the point where I will turn down a job if the customer insists on using Sherwin. Of course, it doesnt take me long to convince potential clients to never use Sherwin again.:biggrin2: I just explain how I have ongoing problems with hatbanding and touchup, and lack of customer service, on top of absolute price gouging. 

I would go back to that sherwin and demand they sell you a gallon under your contractors price. And then stick with Benjamin Moore.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I don't think unscrupulous painters misleading their customers on the coatings they intend to use is limited to painter's using SWP. Most all paint manufactures have a low end line of paint. When I was working, I got good pricing from SWP especially with the coatings I used a lot of.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

It’s a word game. You can say “pro mar 200 is top of the line” and not really be lying. It is the top of the line in the pro mar series. A step up from the 400 and a couple steps up from the 700. Not to mention Master hide, Property solutions, and all the other cheap paint that Sherwin sells. 

It would be more accurate to say it’s the top of the line contractor grade paint. 

I’ve had pretty good luck having BM match whites in the past. As long as you have a sample of the color white you need, they should be able to get real close. I wouldn’t expect to be able to touch up with it, but corner to corner or doing a whole area should be fine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

As an example-the Lucite paint they sell at Menard's for $8.99 a gallon is the top of the line Lucite. But Menard's doesn't charge $70.00 a gallon for it. And yes, every paint company has their good, better, best paint qualities, but it is the way SW prices their paints that is the big difference. When you buy Ben Moore Aura for $69.95, you aren't paying that for a gallon of paint they sell to contractors for $12.00 a gallon. Big difference.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

It still amazes me that we went from paint that cost $14.99 per gallon to $70 per gallon in a matter of a few short years. I mean, it was standard pricing for just about every major label for quite a long time. I suppose greed got in there as well as increases in paint ingredients. It was so nice having that consistency of pricing. No matter what brand you used, as a contractor, you could safely say that, "Your paint is going to be $14.99 per gallon and you need ______ gallons."


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Wow, some real hyperbole in this thread. I'm wondering if this forum isn't doing more harm than good to homeowners these days. Some people really like to show off.

No, Pro Mar 200 is absolutely not junk or crap. It's not the best paint in the world and not the worst. For example to compare to the more watery Pro Mar 700, it's quite a step up. 200 has a dry film thickness at rated coverage of 1.7 mils, while 700 is about half that at 1.0 mils. I would probably call 700 crap and personally I wouldn't ever use it even for an apartment repaint because it's not worth it in terms of the splatter and possible lack of hiding of marks on the wall.

99.9% of homeowners couldn't tell the difference between 2 paints that cost $25 or more, given that they have the same sheen and assuming there are enough coats to hide the color beneath. And today's paints are all pretty decent at that price point or higher.

As for SW pricing of $70, yes that's pretty silly, but I don't think your painter ripped you off either. The SW rep really said something he shouldn't have (if he actually said that to you.) If I were there I'd buy you a gallon, but if I were you I'd call a couple painters and ask them if they can buy it for you. Any of them that agree, save their business card for future use (I would be happy to do this for any potential customer.)


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

jeffnc said:


> Wow, some real hyperbole in this thread. I'm wondering if this forum isn't doing more harm than good to homeowners these days. Some people really like to show off.
> 
> No, Pro Mar 200 is absolutely not junk or crap. It's not the best paint in the world and not the worst. For example to compare to the more watery Pro Mar 700, it's quite a step up. 200 has a dry film thickness at rated coverage of 1.7 mils, while 700 is about half that at 1.0 mils. I would probably call 700 crap and personally I wouldn't ever use it even for an apartment repaint because it's not worth it in terms of the splatter and possible lack of hiding of marks on the wall.
> 
> ...


I did some testing on a 2x2 drywall with promar 200 zero against scuff-x yesterday. Took 3 coats to *cover *a tinted primer and it still looks like crap. Do you work for sherwin or something? It is not hyperbole really this paint has such crap coverage I can't believe any painter would use this. Can't wait to see how it won't touch up in a month!

Please grab a can of ultraspec 500 and promar 200. Even someone who has never painted a day in their lives can tell you promar is junk.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> PS If you want to know BM's equivalent paint that would be coronado SK1000 priced near $13 / gallon (your price, I will do a bit better for contractors lol)


I've noticed that this is a favorite tactic of paint distributors (and you are getting quite the reputation as a BM shill.) They compare another company's paint to a lower version in their own line.

For example, at Sherwin Williams, I mention Regal, and they say their equivalent is Super Paint. Then I go to Benjamin Moore, and they their equivalent to Super Paint is Ben. Well, that's funny.

As for your comparison of Pro Mar 200 to Super Kote 1000, let's not be silly OK? Super Kote 1000 == Pro Mar 700. Even Super Kote 3000 is probably even a lesser paint than Pro Mar 200, maybe Pro Mar 400 would be a better comparison there.

But then of course, the competitor is always junk, right?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Do you work for sherwin or something?


I have accounts at both Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore, and use both their paints.

How about you? Who do you work for?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

jeffnc said:


> I have accounts at both Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore, and use both their paints.
> 
> How about you? Who do you work for?


I work for my self, all BM stores are locally owned and operated. Don't take my word for it. Anyone can go grab a mistint of promar 200 and ultraspec for a few $ and do a side by side comparison.

My experience with promar 200 zero eggshell:
Went on very tacky with a 3/8" prodooz, long recoat time (4hr), AND took 3 full coats to cover (and i mean cover not just hide). After 3 coats it looks acceptable, and has a good sheen. This is a test board that I will let people scuff up to compare with scuff-x.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I work for my self, all BM stores are locally owned and operated.


In other words, Benjamin Moore. Got it.



cocomonkeynuts said:


> Don't take my word for it.


Oh don't worry, I don't LOL I've painted plenty with Pro Mar 200 as well as many other paint and it's just fine.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

I don't 'work for' anyone but my self, I carry PPG, Old masters and number of other brands as well. Again no one reading this thread has to take our word (yours or mine). And you won't hear me say sherwin (or any other manufacturer) doesn't have good products, they do but promar 200 isn't one of them. After the 2nd coat not having full coverage well that is a thumbs down for me.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Promar 200 is an average apartment grade paint at best. It doesn't actually cover to a true color representation with less than 3 coats, generally speaking. It does however achieve an EVEN color after two coats. But when you compare those two coats to a color standard it won't match. And when you put a third layer of paint on touch-up areas, the color will change again more often then not. It is NOT a very good paint. Usable in it's proper market but quite a rip off for residential repaints. I sold it for ten years and i hated every minute of it. EVERY competitive paint company had paints that performed MUCH better in it's lowest contractor price range. It is a fact that LOWER grade paints from Ben Moore and several other paint manufacturers will out perform it. SW knows this and doesn't care. The scam is on and why should they "fix" a product that they are selling the crap out of and most painters are hypnotized into thinking is a great product solely based on marketing and pricing scams.

Test it side by side in a real UNBIASED, HIDDEN LABEL test and it's mediocrity is hard to ignore.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

My results with ProMar 200 have always been positive; good coverage and touch up. Most of what I used was 1 coat primer and 1 coat 200. Granted I have been retired for a few yrs and things might have changed. It was my standard offering on new residential work and apartment repaints. Not a coating that I would use on most repaints. Not saying it isn't decent paint, just that there are better coatings to choose from when the budget isn't as tight.


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## saowens58 (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm looking for a recommendation for painting exterior hardiplank in south Texas. I did see not mention of PPG (Pittsburgh), which we use for our rent houses so we typically repaint 3-5 years. We do use their Manor Hall line, which I think has actually just changed.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Most any quality exterior latex house paint will do a good job. I've not used any PPG coatings in a decade or more so can't comment on their current offerings.


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## hsiehd (Apr 12, 2018)

miamicuse said:


> Last year I hired a professional painter to do some interior painting. I offered to buy the paint since I usually use Benjamin Moore products and prefer to stay with one brand. He said he will only do it if he gets the paint and he always get top notch Sherwin Williams. I said OK.
> 
> So this week I need to repaint part of the kitchen window area and need to match his paint...which is WHITE.
> 
> ...


Same issue as me expect my is oil base.
I go to local SHERWIN WILLIAMS store and they said they can sell me PROMAR 200 EXTRA WHITE for $39.00 something plus tax per gal w/o contractor account. But I final buy pro class extra white at $42.00 something plus tax by using 30% off coupon and online purchase $50+ got $10 off coupon. very nice guy in our local SW store.


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