# New Redwood fence staining



## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

writehaseeb said:


> Hi guys, I have a redwood fence about 5 months old. I am planning to go with a solid stain on it.
> Can anyone recommend which brand to go with? local homedepot says Behr Premium solid stain are the best, has anyone tried that? what about others like Cobat, Ben Moore, Shermin etc. Any preference between latex vs oil based stains.
> Please advise, i will really appreciate. As i need to decide on the brand soon!


NO!!!! What's the point of buying expensive redwood only to cover it up? Defeats the purpose of buying redwood. If you wanted a solid stain, you should have bought doug fir. Anyways, never listen to the guys at home depot, they know nothing when it comes to paints and stains. Always go to a professional paint store for advice on paints and stains. i have been selling paints and stains in mountain environments for over 14 years. Trust me. Anyways, if you want to show off your redwood, go with a high (550) voc transparent stain. It will not last as long as a more opaque product, but it will look great. I always recommend Cabot's austrailian timber oil, as they are they best on the market. the best transparent stain to use is this: http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/ATO_3400.pdf

If you want longevity over looks, I would recommend a semi solid oil stain (550 voc). it won't peel like SOME solid oil stains, and will hide most of the wood. cabot's 1400 series is great: http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/DECK1400.pdf

BUT, if you want a solid oil stain no matter what, i would only recommend a TRUE oil stain (cleans up with mineral spirits). The best solid oil is once again, cabot's 6500 series: http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/OVT_6500.pdf

No matter what, stick with a true oil stain, as they penetrate wood better than waters, and only do ONE COAT if you are going to use a solid oil stain. A trans or semi trans, or semi solid could require two (if the wood is thirsty) but apply the second coat right after the first (it's called a wet on wet application). If you apply a second coat when the first is dry, the stain is no longer penetrating in the wood, just sitting on top like a skin, and could peel. I hope this has been helpful for you. Private message me, and I could always give you my store # and help you out from there.

Oh, and always apply in the shade if possible and only use a natural (china) bristle brush to apply. No rolling, and if you spray, back brush. You will thank me!


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

If you can't get 550 voc stains in Cabot, and you want a less opaque product, then switch to Superdeck's semi-trans oil stain, or their 250 voc transparent stains. Even though Cabot's high voc stains are superior to anything, Cabot's lower voc stains are not that good. Superdeck's low voc stains are pretty decent, and still better than any water based stains. http://www.superdeck.com/Superdeck-Products/Semi-Transparent-Deck--Siding-Stain/index.html#Product_Data_Guide_&_MSDS. http://www.superdeck.com/Superdeck-Products/Transparent-Stain--Sealer/index.html


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks hammerheart14! between semi transparent and solid stain, I am sure the solid can last longer. Whats the average life span for both? I am in San Jose and temps here are fairly moderate in both winter as well as in summer.
I will check Cobat 550!


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

writehaseeb said:


> Thanks hammerheart14! between semi transparent and solid stain, I am sure the solid can last longer. Whats the average life span for both? I am in San Jose and temps here are fairly moderate in both winter as well as in summer.
> I will check Cobat 550!


Solid may last longer, but if not done correctly, will peel. hence more maintenance. if you go with a semi solid, all it will do is fade away when it fails. if you do go with a solid oil, remember Cabot's 6500 series is the best soild oil stain on the market.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Our go to stains are Cabot for solid and semi-solid, Sikkens for transparent and semi-transparent. On a red wood fence I would recommended a transparent or semi-transparent, because of the cost and beauty of the red wood you should allow it to show. If you decide on a solid I would use Cabot ProVt acrylic latex. The transparent and semi transparent will need to be re-coated years before the semi-solid, and the solid will outlast all of them. Its a matter of the look that you want and also the time that you want to spend maintaining it.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> Our go to stains are Cabot for solid and semi-solid, Sikkens for transparent and semi-transparent. On a red wood fence I would recommended a transparent or semi-transparent, because of the cost and beauty of the red wood you should allow it to show. If you decide on a solid I would use Cabot ProVt acrylic latex. The transparent and semi transparent will need to be re-coated years before the semi-solid, and the solid will outlast all of them. Its a matter of the look that you want and also the time that you want to spend maintaining it.


I agree with everything you said, but one thing: A solid acrylic stain WILL PEEL just like a paint will. If there is some light sanding done, and you use Cabot's OVT solid oil stain (6500 series) and if one coat is applied, THERE WILL BE NO PEELING. A correctly applied oil stain should never peel. A solid acrylic stain is just watered down paint. It will not penetrate like a true oil, and therefore, peel.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I agree with everything you said, but one thing: A solid acrylic stain WILL PEEL just like a paint will. If there is some light sanding done, and you use Cabot's OVT solid oil stain (6500 series) and if one coat is applied, THERE WILL BE NO PEELING. A correctly applied oil stain should never peel. A solid acrylic stain is just watered down paint. It will not penetrate like a true oil, and therefore, peel.


An oil base stain becomes brittle and will crack, acrylic stains and paints retain color longer, have elasticity, can withstand more heat, and have midicides. We have painted hundreds of homes and fences with acrylic stains with no problems. I've seen oil base stains crack and peel too, believe it or not. First you will want to wash the fence, even though its new, use a product such as wolmans deck brite

or safe wash, it will clean and brighten the fence prior to staining. A solid acrylic stain gives a painted look, but is not a paint, its still a stain. Stains and paints with acrylic properties are more beneficial than oil base.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> An oil base stain becomes brittle and will crack, acrylic stains and paints retain color longer, have elasticity, can withstand more heat, and have midicides. We have painted hundreds of homes and fences with acrylic stains with no problems. I've seen oil base stains crack and peel too, believe it or not. First you will want to wash the fence, even though its new, use a product such as wolmans deck brite
> 
> or safe wash, it will clean and brighten the fence prior to staining. A solid acrylic stain gives a painted look, but is not a paint, its still a stain. Stains and paints with acrylic properties are more beneficial than oil base.


I have stained dozens of houses with my father using a real oil based siding stain. If done properly (spray and back brush ONE COAT) they will fade when they fail, not peel or crack. An acrylic solid stain cannot penetrate wood like an oil can, therefore sitting on top of a surface just like paint. Cabot's OVT solid oil does have mildicides in it. Acrylic based stains will withstand color fade better, no doubt, but WILL PEEL WHEN IT FAILS, LIKE PAINT. But an oil stain is easier to maintain, no flaking, no peeling, therefor less prep work. Water based paints, however, are superior to oil based paints, because they can contrast and expand in extreme temperture changes. If an oil based soild stain is over-applied, that is where the cracking or peeling comes from. Defeats the whole purpose of a stain: to soak into the wood and seal it. You only want to apply as much stain as the wood will take.

Sounds like to me you are confusing an oil based paint with a solid oil stain. It's a common mistake.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Latex paints and stains keep us in business as they peel and soak up dirt. We have gone into houses well over 100 years old and you couldn't blast most of the paint off with a blow torch. Oil based stains and paints will out-perform latex every time.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I have stained dozens of houses with my father using a real oil based siding stain. If done properly (spray and back brush ONE COAT) they will fade when they fail, not peel or crack. An acrylic solid stain cannot penetrate wood like an oil can, therefore sitting on top of a surface just like paint. Cabot's OVT solid oil does have mildicides in it. Acrylic based stains will withstand color fade better, no doubt, but WILL PEEL WHEN IT FAILS, LIKE PAINT. But an oil stain is easier to maintain, no flaking, no peeling, therefor less prep work. Water based paints, however, are superior to oil based paints, because they can contrast and expand in extreme temperture changes. If an oil based soild stain is over-applied, that is where the cracking or peeling comes from. Defeats the whole purpose of a stain: to soak into the wood and seal it. You only want to apply as much stain as the wood will take.
> 
> Sounds like to me you are confusing an oil based paint with a solid oil stain. It's a common mistake.


Sounds like you are the confused one, because I'm certainly not confused and like I said we've painted hundreds of homes, commercial buildings, and fences with solid acrylic stain and have no problems. We have recently re-stained the shake siding on a bank that was stained 6 years ago with a solid latex stain and there was no peeling, I recently visited a fence that we stained 4 years ago and there is no peeling. I've seen a lot of our past work that we have stained using a water base stain and rarely see any peeling. Now days 100% acrylic binders are the way to go for most staining and painting, but some are not up with today's technology and do not know the advantages to these products, I've named some of the advantages in an earlier post, but these coatings are also breathable, so moisture will not be trapped behind them and moisture is a cause of peeling.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I have stained dozens of houses with my father using a real oil based siding stain. If done properly (spray and back brush ONE COAT) they will fade when they fail, not peel or crack. An acrylic solid stain cannot penetrate wood like an oil can, therefore sitting on top of a surface just like paint. Cabot's OVT solid oil does have mildicides in it. Acrylic based stains will withstand color fade better, no doubt, but WILL PEEL WHEN IT FAILS, LIKE PAINT. But an oil stain is easier to maintain, no flaking, no peeling, therefor less prep work. Water based paints, however, are superior to oil based paints, because they can contrast and expand in extreme temperture changes. If an oil based soild stain is over-applied, that is where the cracking or peeling comes from. Defeats the whole purpose of a stain: to soak into the wood and seal it. You only want to apply as much stain as the wood will take.
> 
> Sounds like to me you are confusing an oil based paint with a solid oil stain. It's a common mistake.


Sounds like you are the confused one, because I'm certainly not confused and like I said we've painted hundreds of homes, commercial buildings, and fences with solid acrylic stain and have no problems. We have recently re-stained the shake siding on a bank that was stained 6 years ago with a solid latex stain and there was no peeling, I recently visited a fence that we stained 4 years ago and there is no peeling. I've seen a lot of our past work that we have stained using a water base stain and rarely see any peeling. Now days 100% acrylic binders are the way to go for most staining and painting, but some are not up with today's technology and do not know the advantages to these products, I've named some of the advantages in an earlier post, but these coatings are also breathable, so moisture will not be trapped behind them and moisture is a cause of peeling. The only place I would not use a water base stain is on a walking surface.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> Sounds like you are the confused one, because I'm certainly not confused and like I said we've painted hundreds of homes, commercial buildings, and fences with solid acrylic stain and have no problems. We have recently re-stained the shake siding on a bank that was stained 6 years ago with a solid latex stain and there was no peeling, I recently visited a fence that we stained 4 years ago and there is no peeling. I've seen a lot of our past work that we have stained using a water base stain and rarely see any peeling. Now days 100% acrylic binders are the way to go for most staining and painting, but some are not up with today's technology and do not know the advantages to these products, I've named some of the advantages in an earlier post, but these coatings are also breathable, so moisture will not be trapped behind them and moisture is a cause of peeling.


Sorry, where I live (high altitude mountain eenvironment) solid acrylic stains peel like paint. There still is nothing better than an oil stain for penetration. Water just can't penetrate wood like oil can. For me, it
s like arguing to people the sky is blue. To me it's a nice clear blue sky, to you it's green. We're just not going to agree.


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks a lot guys for the feedback. I have changed my mind from solid to semi solid and will go with Cabot!
May be the oil vs water based in your cases depends on the region? since hammerheart mentioned he is in mountain region! let me get back to you guys with
the feedback from the guy who is coming tomorrow to look at the fence and give me estimate!


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

writehaseeb said:


> Thanks a lot guys for the feedback. I have changed my mind from solid to semi solid and will go with Cabot!
> May be the oil vs water based in your cases depends on the region? since hammerheart mentioned he is in mountain region! let me get back to you guys with
> the feedback from the guy who is coming tomorrow to look at the fence and give me estimate!


if you go with the Cabot semi solid stain, be sure to ask for the 1400 series.


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> if you go with the Cabot semi solid stain, be sure to ask for the 1400 series.


Sure. I will check tomorrow at the local store!


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

I checked at the local Kelly Moore store, they told me they have 7400 series semi solid, and it is same as 1400 (guy said may be 1400 is due to different state but 7400 is same as 1400)? is this true?


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

writehaseeb said:


> I checked at the local Kelly Moore store, they told me they have 7400 series semi solid, and it is same as 1400 (guy said may be 1400 is due to different state but 7400 is same as 1400)? is this true?


They pretty much are the same, the 7400 actually has more solids in it, so its a better choice. The more solids in a stain, the longer it will last against UV rays.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> They pretty much are the same, the 7400 actually has more solids in it, so its a better choice. The more solids in a stain, the longer it will last against UV rays.


not true. the more solvents the stain has, the better the penetration, the longer it will last. a stain that has more solids in it is more like a paint and sits on top of the surface. defeats the purpose of a real stain, because stains MUST penetrate the wood and SOAK into it.

HOWEVER, you might live in an area where you CAN ONLY get the low voc version (7400) and not have a choice. be sure to not apply the product too heavy and allow it to dry for at least a few days before walking on it. lower voc stains take a while to dry. Where do you live, btw?


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

I live in San Jose, CA weather is good these days day/night!
So you are saying between 1400 and 7400, the 1400 has more solvents and a better VOC. Does VOC # has to do anything with the actual stain application? or is it just the environmental thing?


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> not true. the more solvents the stain has, the better the penetration, the longer it will last. a stain that has more solids in it is more like a paint and sits on top of the surface. defeats the purpose of a real stain, because stains MUST penetrate the wood and SOAK into it.
> 
> HOWEVER, you might live in an area where you CAN ONLY get the low voc version (7400) and not have a choice. be sure to not apply the product too heavy and allow it to dry for at least a few days before walking on it. lower voc stains take a while to dry. Where do you live, btw?


It is a fact that the more solids in an exterior stain, the more it will withstand UV rays, that's why most translucent and semi-translucents don't last as long as semi-solids or solids, because they have less solids, less pigment, and less color.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> It is a fact that the more solids in an exterior stain, the more it will withstand UV rays, that's why most translucent and semi-translucents don't last as long as semi-solids or solids, because they have less solids, less pigment, and less color.


but a higher voc semi solid stain will still have a lot of body and colorant, AND soak into the wood. why would you want a stain so thick, it can't soak into the wood? you might as well use a paint, because it will peel if it's too solid.


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

7400 is 250 VOC and 1400 is 550 VOC. I have checked few stores here in CA, they have told me 1400 is the east coast series!


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

writehaseeb said:


> 7400 is 250 VOC and 1400 is 550 VOC. I have checked few stores here in CA, they have told me 1400 is the east coast series!


you can only get the 1400 series in voc exempt areas, above 4,000 feet sea level, like in Big Bear Lake, CA. I would just get the 7600 series, since you would have to drive to mammoth to get the right product. Higher voc's means more solvents which mean better penetration. You could spin it both ways: more solids, more uv protection OR higher vocs, better penetration. I choose higher voc's, because what does a stain do? IT MUST PENETRATE INTO THE WOOD. OTHERWISE IT ACTS LIKE A PAINT AND SITS ON TOP OF THE WOOD AND WHEN IT FAILS, IT PEELS LIKE DEAD SKIN.


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## writehaseeb (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks guys! I will do Cabot 7400 semi solid, pressure spray with back brushing, the guy told me it will last 5 to 10 years easy! Thanks for all the good info and lets hope this thing sticks


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