# I've heard of nail pops, but do screws pop?



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Pictures not showing anything as far as a problem.
Yes screws can pop.
Over driving, using 1/2 regular drywall on the ceilings, foundation movement, building with wet wood, earth quake, not enough screws, seams along the sides for windows and doors, ECT. can cause it.


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## Jb1234 (Aug 18, 2012)

Maybe it's the shadow on the picture. It almost looks like the screws are recessed and the drywall pulled away, like overdriven. So is it "popping" or recessed? Not sure if it's shadows playing depth tricks.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Pictures not showing anything as far as a problem.
> Yes screws can pop.
> Over driving, using 1/2 regular drywall on the ceilings, foundation movement, building with wet wood, earth quake, not enough screws, seams along the sides for windows and doors, ECT. can cause it.


Not sure I follow, you don't consider those circles everywhere a problem? Or you just can't see them in the picture?

I wish I could pin-point any one certain specific area I see them, but the more I look, the more there are.

Jb1234 - definitely popped out. The bubble does not compress like there is a void beneath.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

To me from the pic it looks like nail pop. You really need to pull one and make sure. Yes screws can pop but it is usually just a couple. If it turns out to be nails you need to get the GC back in there and raise hell. A big cause of this could be not heating and not keeping the heat on.


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## Jb1234 (Aug 18, 2012)

Well if it makes you feel any better, I was just at a friends house that's under a year old and almost cost a half million. He has a bathroom that I counted 14 screw pops in.

Basically what I'm getting at is it's still unacceptable, but you're not the only one. I know that's of little consolation.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Well, I just checked my feelings and they told me off. :laughing: 14 pops to me is absurd. I can't imagine that's the norm. Glad I'm not the only one though.

So I dug out one of them to take a closer look. Like I said, definitely raised.











I feel relieved that they are screws and not nails. I'm guessing maybe the mud popped because the screw broke the paper. Also appears it was driven at an angle, which also contributes to the broken paper.

So what is the correct fix action, dig them out and refill/sand them all? It appears you could sand them flush, but being they're pops, I don't think that would be very long lasting.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Other things I notice more than I'd like to is a good bit of this on the seams. What are they using, 20 grit sandpaper?













Have a couple of these too.


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## Jb1234 (Aug 18, 2012)

Yeah, it seems like drywall is really suffering over the years. Something tells me it's the cheap fast labor, not the American pride craftsman of old. It has to drive the professionals on here insane. I'm assuming they didn't use adhesive on the drywall to help anchor to the studs. 

Someone in the profession I'm sure will chime in. But my understanding of the fix is you wil drive a new screw in, one above and one below, then you remove the old screw since it has no holding power anymore. Then from there mud, properly sand, prime and repaint. Something tells me your patches will turn out better than the current. That looks like a hack job to me. Is it just now you noticed the bad sand job, not when you moved in? I know I have developed a crazy critical observant eye over the years. When I point things out to buddies, most of them are oblivious.

But obviously with the sheer volume of pops, this fix would be insane to do and the fix shouldn't be on you anyway.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Push on the drywall where you think it popped. 
Where not there so bare with us. It looks like there where under filled or there was air trapped because there did not force the first coat into the screw hole to fill the gap.
The bottom picture is where someone did not cut the hole big enough for the box and forced it into place and busted out the drywall instead of taking 30 sec. to open it up with a Rotozip with a piloted drywall bit.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Rock feels tight to the studs. Pushing on it doesn't cause any movement in the pops or others to surface. They may have underfilled or had air trapped like you said. I'm a friggen' DIY'er and do a better job than some of these hacks who do it for a living (not using the word 'pro' there).

I went down that road in my old house. Hell if I'm going to be the one doing it again here.

I did a pretty bad job here, first time doing anything. Screw interval was WAY off and I got a bit overzealous. :laughing: I'm a ton better now.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Looks like the Verizon cell phone coverage map.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

This is why a lot of drywallers are using glue and just a few screws to hold till the glue sets. I have to ask but is this the lite weight drywall?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

*Table 7*
*Fastener Spacing with Adhesive or Mastic Application and Supplemental Fastening*
 Ceilings Load-Bearing Partitions Nonload-Bearing Parts.
Framing Nail Screw Nail Screw Nail Screw
Spacing Spacing Spacing Spacing Spacing Spacing Spacing
in. (mm) in. (mm) in. (mm) in. (mm) in. (mm) in. (mm) in. (mm)
16 (406) 16 (406) 16 (406) 16 (406) 24 (610) 24 (610) 24 (610)
24 (610) 12 (305)--- 16 (406)------ --- 12 (305)-- 16 (406) 16 (406)----- 24 (610)

Well, that table didn't work as planned.... bottom two lines says it all.


Did the studs get wet during/before framing? 


http://www.paintsource.net/pages/sol...erfections.htm

Check if the screws are 1-1/4" or 1-5/8", as the longer ones have more wood depth to shrink more; pp.11- look at the 1-1/2" nail shrinkage areas- the drywall moves the 1/16" and the wood shrinks (in the fastener depth) 1/16" for 1/8" total. Be sure there is no movement when pushing on the wall at screw location; using the same screw by just tightening it down is fine- the head dimple hasn't changed size (the drywall dimple is still intact)- only the screw hole has worn clean from the threads now. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...711HulsBKUaB2g



Gary


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

This really sounds like a GC who is using his crew to rock instead of a Drywall Contractor. At the time the house was built makes me suspect heat was a big factor. A lot of times they turn the heat on when they rock then turn it off when they leave for the day.
Have you made final payment to the contractor yet? From the quality of work around the light switch I don't see how this is anything more than poor workmanship and he knows it or he would try to fix it rather than telling you off. I am assuming there is no new home warranty.


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## rhictha (Feb 21, 2014)

Yes screw can pop. Its not always the type the fastener more often I would say the movement of the walls/studs. I have seen a sheet screwed off and one stud was not flush to the rock so when it was screwed off the sheet dipped in on the off stud. The next day the sheet had popped back straight. The only solution was to take the sheet off and fur out or just spot the screws and leave it not screwed to the one stud. But take the screws out because if you leave them in and you push on the wall the mud will get pushed out.

The light switch looks like it was busted out and the finished never bothered to patch it cause it takes more time.

Some rockers use nail because that how they did it way back in the day. Or if they have no one to help hold for them they claim its easier to nail first. But there are more rockers out there that just use screws and never touch nails. Better off*

Depends on heat and insulation when building the house especially when taping.

Tons of variables.


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## DL's husband (Feb 22, 2014)

If this is a pervasive problem, you said new construction.

Do you have a warranty? If so, write to the builder and get the crew out to fix these things.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Sorry, haven't had much of a chance to check in lately.

There is a 1-year warranty on the house, and they come in at the 11-month mark after a complete cycle of seasons to fix any drywall issues. The lead builder was here today to fix another small issue and I inquired about the drywall. I asked if he had multiple crews he used or the same crew. He said he now has a new crew, and those guys are no longer employed. Said he couldn't defend their workmanship and that a new crew has been hired. I told him that all 3 neighbors I spoke with have terrible drywall issues. Humps at tapered joints, pops, etc. He said the same company is still obligated to fix issues at the 11 month mark. I said that didn't give me a warm fuzzy; if they didn't give a crap the first time around, why would they care the second time? He said there's different people for initial build, and for punch-lists. All I can do is wait and see.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

So the question becomes: *What is the proper way to fix these voids?*

I've filled in normal screw holes before, and I've also done repairs of popped nails. This is a little different I think. I believe there is a void between the popped mud and the screw head. So, that popped mud needs to be knocked off, and re-mudded. IF the face of the paper is broken, as in they sunk the screw too far, then I'll need to put another screw ~1-1/2" inches away, since the original screw has no holding power, and any movement could cause the screw to pop the mud again I guess.

Can I just use the 5-minute stuff to repair the holes? I'm adept at working it OK.

Thoughts?


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## iminaquagmire (Jul 10, 2010)

I can certainly imagine your anger, especially when you end up fixing something you shouldn't have to. I'm not sure what you mean with the popped mud and void thing. Dig it out with a 5-1 tool or give it a light hit with a hammer to break the loose mud out. If you're worried abut the drywall being loose, put in another screw an inch away and fill at the same time. Nothing wrong with using hot mud (easy sand) to fill the holes. 

As for around the switches, cut the torn paper back to good sound drywall and remove the broken pieces. It'll likely take multiple applications of hot mud to patch in. 

Not uncommon to find sanding scratches on the seams, especially in the corners. It happens when you don't move up in grits, especially with sanding screens. A skim of mud will take care of it.


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## Chewbacka (Feb 27, 2014)

See what the builder says he's going to do in each instance and get him to detail it to you in writing, Email him and the builder company who holds the contract. Don't let them run out the clock on you. The last part is crucial- no more mr. nice guy time for you.
Tell them what you expect and by when and don't let up.


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## DL's husband (Feb 22, 2014)

You can patch the existing pop-outs, but I'd suggest you shoot screws above or below them since they appear to have been torn into the paper.

As far as the contractor/warranty is concerned? I'd rather not get into that much beyond that he's the primary contractor and is ultimately responsible for the warranty work.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll post up the warranty stuff later. I'm fixing a couple rooms for now just so I can paint them and please my wife. :/

I'm going to drive another screw in. Question is, do I drive the original deeper so it doesn't pop again? How deep?


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## Chewbacka (Feb 27, 2014)

Dave88LX said:


> I'll post up the warranty stuff later. I'm fixing a couple rooms for now just so I can paint them and please my wife. :/
> 
> I'm going to drive another screw in. Question is, do I drive the original deeper so it doesn't pop again? How deep?


If, as already suggested you drive one screw above and one below each popped screw and don't drive the new screws to where they break the paper, then fill all screw heads and sand smooth, you should be all set. Get the proper length screws based on the thickness of your drywall. Use a drywall gun set to drive to the proper depth. Practice on scrap pieces of same thickness screwing into wood of same dimension to set correct depth.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll do the screws above/below. 1/2" drywall, I have 1-1/4" drywall screws on hand. I don't have a drywall gun but I'm OK with putting in screws the correct way.



> don't drive the new screws to where they break the paper


The existing screws have broken through the paper faces, so that's already been done. I'm not sure if I should just drive them deeper then fill the holes & 2 new screw divots. I don't want the old screws to pop out the mud again.

Hell - I should just take the old screws out. No reason to leave them in eh?


http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GA-222-09.pdf


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## Chewbacka (Feb 27, 2014)

It's obvious the original screws popped. Pull them or don't. The new screws will hold the sheetrock in place, if done right.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I will probably just pull the old screws out after putting a new one above/below the old ones. Clean up the hole, fill them all together. From reading Gary's link the 1-1/4" should be good, as a deeper screw can cause a larger gap between the framing and drywall as the wood shrinks.

Thank you!


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

One wall down.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

That last pic is how they left the screws? That looks way too deep to me.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Yup. Wayyyy too deep. Not just a couple. Tons of them.


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## Jb1234 (Aug 18, 2012)

What they use to screw, an impact driver? Ha


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

You would think! :laughing:

Unreal.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Can't make it any worse. :thumbup:


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## Chewbacka (Feb 27, 2014)

Well at least you have a skilled craftswoman working the job; about time!


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Jb1234 said:


> Someone in the profession I'm sure will chime in. But my understanding of the fix is you wil drive a new screw in, one above and one below, then you remove the old screw since it has no holding power anymore.





DL's husband said:


> You can patch the existing pop-outs, but I'd suggest you shoot screws above or below them since they appear to have been torn into the paper.


Does anyone have this in any written "official" form from any of the big drywall manufacturers?

So they called this morning, they want to come tomorrow to fix the pops. Problem -- there's a foot of snow on the ground and diffused light (light coming from all directions) is flooding the house. You can't see ANYTHING! They also refuse to use a "trouble light" on the wall to find flaws because that's not their policy.

UPDATE: He said "they have to pay out of pocket for the drywall guy to use a light. He agreed to use a light, but, we won't come back out to retouch the paint." 

He said they also will not be replacing any screws that were overdriven as the directive is only to drive in new nails above/or/below a popped nail, but not a screw. Hmmm. Does anyone know for a fact otherwise?

I can't find exactly what I'm looking for in this document:
http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...medies-and-preventive-measures-can-en-pdf.pdf


Not sure what is going to happen here. The original drywall crew was fired because of poor workmanship. This wouldn't be like this if they didn't screw it up so badly to begin with.

"Mark the pops" they told me."


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

Yet one more reason why all of my jobs are done with skim coat plaster. There is absolutely nothing I like about drywall. Nothing.


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