# Heat Pumps Best and Worst



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Good day gentlemen.
I am in the process of getting quotes to replace my York heat pump.
Its a 2.5 ton slit unit with air handler in hot attic.

My first quote is for Lennox (Costco Promo)
My second quote is for Amana Local company that was recommended to me.
My third quote will be York (from the original installer 18 years ago if he calls me back).

What about Trane and others like Carrier? Bryant? Goodman?

I have no idea and I am asking for advice. TIA. John


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Brand is not the most important consideration - they all work the way. It's not like buying a tv or fridge that you take come a plug in; quality of installation, proper sizing, warranty are very important.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

All those brands are good if installed properly. Amana and Goodman are the same company and got bought buy a huge company called Daikin. Carrier owns Bryant and is the same.

The problem with quotes is like buying cars there are many different options and quality levels so it is not easy to compare.

Basically you have entry level/builders grade, then average and then deluxe.

If you get the quotes bring them here and maybe somone can compare them 4 U. Lennox has 3 tiers. The Costco promo or HDepot or Sears you should be careful of. I have heard all 3 jack up the price 10% more than a independant guy charges. People like them if they have to use credit and you get some goofy air miles/seers points or whatever. Not worth much in real cash but people believe in them.

Not made your job easier but at least you know how the biz works.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

yuri said:


> All those brands are good if installed properly. Amana and Goodman are the same company and got bought buy a huge company called Daikin. Carrier owns Bryant and is the same.
> 
> The problem with quotes is like buying cars there are many different options and quality levels so it is not easy to compare.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Yes, craftsmanship is something I will keep a very close eye on. 
Yep, I thought the Lennox price for the equipment seemed high. More than they sell for online. When I get all the quotes, I will post only the equipment price, not the labor.

Any other brands I should consider?


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

You should decide what kind of system you need first - ignore brands.

Do research so you know what you're being quoted.

For lennox, you can get the cheapest, a 13 seer made in mexico or something nicer with a good quality cabinet, better components. The brand doesn't matter much.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Your best bet is to go to a good home hvac website and compare the machine specs. Most of the cheaper units have timed defrost while some of the more expensive ones have on-demand defrost which is a bit more efficient.

Are you replacing the air handler too?
If you are not replacing the air handler also then there really isn't much sense in worrying too much about the SEER rating. Not that it is unimportant but the SEER rating is dependent on proper air flow with (mostly) matched handlers. Manufactures won't guaranty the rated Seer if it does not have a matched handler.

I just purchased a heat pump package from Alpine home air (great place) but their selection is restricted to mostly Goodman and Amana.

There is another site with a wider variety and the spec sheets to boot:
AC4Life (acdirect)

http://www.acdirect.com/


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

The brand does matter in terms of sound and how heavy it is built. Just like cars you can get a heavy quiet Mercedes or a cheap no name Kia or Yugo ( you get the idea, they both roll and get you there but are not the same). 

Nothing wrong with the Nordyne family BUT they are not as heavy built as a Trane or Carrier or Lennox or York. If you want to compare quality look at the sound db rating of the same SEER unit. Some Lennox units being built in Mexico has nothing to do with anything. Honeywell has been building gas valves there since the early 80's. As long as the factory has quality control and ISO 9000 standards you can make them in China. All depends on the quality the Brand specs out.

IMO the top brands are Trane, Lennox, Carrier, York in terms of heavy built and easy to get parts and tech support for. Rheem/RUUD and Goodman/Amana is good and a bit less $$ and can be a bit noisier in the basic models.

It all depends on your budget and what quality you want.


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## Done That (Apr 28, 2011)

As Bob Sanders mentioned, I would at least shop for a unit with Demand Defrost. In brand terms, that means:

Trane, Rheem: Pretty much all units are Demand Defrost
Lennox, York, Nordyne: Mid and High end units are typically Demand Defrost
Goodman, Amana, Carrier, Bryant: No Demand Defrost. Carrier/Bryant does have units with an algorithm to "learn up" their Timed Defrost to the longest interval available.

All the other solid advice already given here certainly applies. Just my opinion that Demand Defrost is worth seeking out as a feature.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If the Amana they quoted you, is an Amana Distinction, then your getting a price on a Goodman. Distinction is just a rebadged Goodman.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

yuri said:


> IMO the top brands are Trane, Lennox, Carrier, York in terms of heavy built and easy to get parts and tech support for. Rheem/RUUD and Goodman/Amana is good and a bit less $$ and can be a bit noisier in the basic models.
> 
> It all depends on your budget and what quality you want.


Actually my complaint with the Goodman I just bought is that the steel mesh casing is a bit weak. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, but the 4 ton machine I bought is pretty heavy and although the mesh casing is not carrying any real weight, you have to be careful installing because it has enough flex in it to actually touch the coils (and bend them) when pushing force is applied to it.

The noise however is non existent. I was stunned at how quiet this thing was. I was also concerned about vibration since I was dropping it onto a wood deck which would amplify any vibration, but again I was stunned at little it vibrated

Sooo... the casing could be stronger, but the noise... nah.... I'm more than happy with my investment.

The timed defrost I am not in love with either, but that will get converted over next year.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

user_12345a said:


> You should decide what kind of system you need first - ignore brands.


I'm replacing an existing unit. 



beenthere said:


> If the Amana they quoted you, is an Amana Distinction, then your getting a price on a Goodman. Distinction is just a rebadged Goodman.


The guy thats quoting Amana showed Goodman on his web site and his employee mentioned Goodman when we talked outside of this context. So it seems he's selling re-branded Goodman?
Once i get the model numbers and quotes, I'm going to put them up here for all to see.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will keep the forum posted with updates and I am certain, more questions.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

A true Amana will have a model number starting with an A. Goodman starts with a G.

Amana doesn't have air handlers, so the air handler will be Goodman either way.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Okay Guys. I'm still waiting on one quote, so I do not have all the prices yet. I do have a pretty good idea as to what each contractor is selling.
I got thrown a curve ball yesterday from a guy that was about $2000 less than the others. I will list him last.

Heat Pump Quotes​ 2.5 Ton Heat Pump Split Unit.​ 
#1
Lennox 14HPX-030 / Air handler CBX25UH, 14 seer - $5680
Lennox 14HPX-030/ Air handler CBX25UHV, 16 seer - $6180 (variable speed)
10 year parts. 1 year labor.

New metal drip pan with float switch and new digital T-Stat.

_Less Costco cash card $486 and Costco cash back $97. So $583 less than listed above plus a $200 utility rebate on 16 seer. Not sure how the rebate works._

I did not ask for quote on new line set here. Yet.

#2
Amana ASZ140301A 14 seer $5000
 ARUF30B14A
Amana ASZ160301L 15 seer $5900
 ARPT37B14A
New pan, switch, and digital t-stat. New line set add $200
Both 10 year parts. 1 year labor.

#3
York (no model number yet) 15 seer $5600
Airease (no model number yet) 13 seer  $5100
Both 10 year parts and 1 year labor.

New line set included. No talk about pan or t-stat yet.

#4
Grandaire 14 seer (no model number provided) $3600
New line set add $200
10 year parts and 2 year labor.
 
New pan, but no mention of switch or digital T-Stat.

This guy seemed to know very little, but seemed the most honest. Great price too? Local. Gives 2 years on labor.
He only took a few minutes to verbally quote me on the spot.
He was recommended by a tavern owner here in town that uses him. Bar I go too.
Old guy been around 40 plus years.
Are pleated air filters actually bad? He’s the second one that mentioned this to me.


Thanks in Advance John


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

This Grandaire brand is specially made for a distributor company owned by another HVAC supplier company according to their site. I suspect it is a cheap Chineez import unlike the other Brands which are made in the US. I would stay away from it.

Pleated filters are BETTER as they have more surface area to catch dirt and less resistance to airflow. The difference is in the MERV rating which is the size of dust particle it can catch. With a ECM variable speed fan it is stronger and you can use a higher MERV filter like a 10. With the basic PSC fan a Merv 7-8 is the best route. Google MERV air filter rating and do some research. These people know nothing.

I would get a quote from a Independant Lennox dealer on the same models to see if Costco is in the same range or a good deal. They do a lot of Lennox biz where I am so it may be a good deal you just need to make sure it not marked up.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_Efficiency_Reporting_Value


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

One more question guys. How important is a license in this business?
Seems I cannot locate a license for #4. The older gentleman.
I know the York and the Lennox guys are licensed. But I'm not sure about #4 or #2.

I also have forgotten about asking about "Demand Defrost". What exactly is demand defrost?

I am a licensed master electrician and contractor and this seems like a big deal to me.

ps.......it just cost me another $230 for a charge two days ago. So I need to get this done.
Also, we will be moving within a year or two. I should have mentioned this right out of the gate.
We don't need a Cadillac. We need something that works good until we move. It could be a couple three years, but we are moving.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If you are moving then I would get a basic Rheem or RUUD or basic Goodman with no variable speed fan. Rheem has a budget line called Weather King which is good.

NO point buying any more quality than necessary if moving. I like Rheem and put a Rheem furnace in my Sister`s house and a basic Goodman furnace in Mom`s house.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

yuri said:


> This Grandaire brand is specially made for a distributor company owned by another HVAC supplier company according to their site. I suspect it is a cheap Chineez import unlike the other Brands which are made in the US. I would stay away from it.
> 
> Pleated filters are BETTER as they have more surface area to catch dirt and less resistance to airflow. The difference is in the MERV rating which is the size of dust particle it can catch. With a ECM variable speed fan it is stronger and you can use a higher MERV filter like a 10. With the basic PSC fan a Merv 7-8 is the best route. Google MERV air filter rating and do some research. These people know nothing.
> 
> ...


I was so hoping the Grandaire would be a good one.....:laughing:

I had two of these guys tell me that these pleated filters restrict air. To use the cheap blue $1 ones. I told them that the same amount of air is moving if I remove the ones I have.
The old guy, #4 told me they would burn up the compressor. I am having serious concerns about this guy and his qualifications.
Sounds to damn good to be true. He also told me this is a 1/2 day job!
The others are saying a 1 full day job.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

yuri said:


> If you are moving then I would get a basic Rheem or RUUD or basic Goodman with no variable speed fan. Rheem has a budget line called Weather King which is good.
> 
> NO point buying any more quality than necessary if moving. I like Rheem and put a Rheem furnace in my Sister`s house and a basic Goodman furnace in Mom`s house.


No one so far is a Rheem or Ruud distributor.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Remember guys. I'm in rural SC. Many still think Reagan is the president.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

Timed defrost vs demand defrost I would not worry about if you are moving. Timed defrosts the outdoor coil on a run timer and demand uses a temp sensor on the coil I believe. I don't see many heat pumps where I am as it gets too cold but I understand how they work. If no Rheem available I would go with the basic Goodman. You are not cold enough to do a lot of defrosting probably so I doubt it makes much difference which method.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

With timed defrost you have a series of dip switches on your board which allow you to set your frequency of defrost. Time choices are usually, 30, 60, 90, or 120 minutes. You set your time and the system will go into defrost mode every 90 minutes if you choose 90. It can be a bit wasteful however if the coil is not frosted up and doesn't need defrosting.

Demand defrost only defrosts when either a pressure sensor (one type of demand defrost system) or a temperature sensor (the other type of demand defrost system) picks up that there is frost building up on the coil. This saves a bit of money in not having to unnecessarily defrost. Demand defrost systems will however go into defrost a minimum of every 6 hours regardless of frost build up. My understanding is that it HAS TO go into defrost at some points if for no other reason than to return the oil back to the compressor.

If you have pretty high humidity then I don't think it matters which way you go since you're going to be defrosting quite frequently anyway. But if your average humidity level is pretty low then demand defrost might be worth looking into.

Now if you happen to be a diy'er and enjoy playing around there is a thread on this site somewhere describing how to convert a timed defrost over to demand.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

J. V. said:


> I had two of these guys tell me that these pleated filters restrict air. To use the cheap blue $1 ones. I told them that the same amount of air is moving if I remove the ones I have.
> The old guy, #4 told me they would burn up the compressor. I am having serious concerns about this guy and his qualifications.
> Sounds to damn good to be true. He also told me this is a 1/2 day job!
> The others are saying a 1 full day job.


Well, they're not wrong... or at least I can see where they're coming from. They have had to add pleats to increase surface area on these high MERV filters because they're MUCH finer and would restrict otherwise.

Personally speaking I'm not a big believer in the higher MERV. Filters are installed to protect the equipment and your furnace was never really meant to be an air purifier. If you want an air purifier then you should go buy one. People are throwing 8's and 10's and 11's into their furnaces thinking it's healthier and not understanding the added restrictions they're possibly causing. To top it all off most residential systems are not that tightly sealed anyway.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

8/10 not so much "healthier" but it does keep the AC coil and secondary heat exchanger in a high eff furnace cleaner and removes more house dust. People that want air purifiers are buying the very expensive Merv 16's but then you need larger ducts and definetly a ECM motor. Merv 7/8 rarely causes problems. 10 usually does unless you got a ECM.

3M and their system now that is a whole other story......

Have to dig far and deep to cross them to a Merv rating.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

yuri said:


> 8/10 not so much "healthier" but it does keep the AC coil and secondary heat exchanger in a high eff furnace cleaner and removes more house dust. People that want air purifiers are buying the very expensive Merv 16's but then you need larger ducts and definetly a ECM motor. Merv 7/8 rarely causes problems. 10 usually does unless you got a ECM.
> 
> 3M and their system now that is a whole other story......
> 
> Have to dig far and deep to cross them to a Merv rating.


Are you suggesting a furnace needs to be protected from stuff as small as dust mite poop? (Higher) MERV filters are about air purifying and the idea of protecting the furnace has been lost in the shuffle.

Higher MERV filters, even moderate ones like 8 cause a restriction and that's all there is to it. While it is true some of the newer ecm furnaces can handle the added restriction, they do it by increasing rpm and thereby increasing the operating cost.
Interesting article which shows the kind of increased tax a MERV 8 can have. I found it also interesting that not all MERV 8 filters have the same effect:



> Filters were originally conceived to protect heating and cooling equipment—for example, to prevent large particles from clogging the air passages of coils. The old familiar fiberglass filters do a fair job of protecting equipment but do little to enhance indoor air quality. Over the past several years, energy efficiency and green programs have begun to adopt requirements for filters that can remove the smaller particulates that cause allergic reactions and other health problems. The Energy Star Indoor Air Package, DOE Builders Challenge, LEED for Homes, and EarthCraft programs all call for a MERV rating of 8 or better.


http://www.homeenergy.org/show/article/id/667


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

In my experience and I am NOT going to get into a endless mindless debate like the vacuum gauge a better filter if it is not restricting airflow and causing problems is worth it to keep the secondary coil and AC coil cleaner and the motor cleaner and running cooler and dust off the circuit board which makes it last longer. In Winnipeg we have old school ducts and vary rarely have undersized duct problems. The temp rise in the furnace and Delta T on cooling should be checked and if fine then a better filter is a good idea. Every single furnace my company sells comes with a Merv 8 and 95% of them are using a filter box and 5" pleated Merv 8 or 10 and we have no problems. If it uses a bit more elec so be it. Better than a dust coated board failing prematurely and costing $500 and up.

3M is very clever and good at advertising and if they can convince the ladies to buy uber expensive filters then good for them. I like generics and Merv is the industry standard. Whether higher Merv filters are for " air purifying "/clever marketing or not max no difference 2 me. Keeping the furnace clean is what matters 2 me.

If you read the fine print on those tight filters it probably says get your equipment checked.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Well, my purpose was not to debate but rather to make it clear that the contractor #4 mentioned above was not off his rocker, or at all unknowledgeable about filters.... which is where it was heading.

There has been study done on these higher MERV filters and there is genuine cause for concern. They CAN cause restrictions as well as increased operating costs and people should be aware of that before they blindly throw them in, in an attempt to turn their heating system into some kind of super-duper air purifier.... some thing it was never really meant to be.

If your system (ductwork and such) was specifically designed with the added filter restrictions in mind then there isn't much of a problem. But instead they're selling these things off the shelf to be replacement filters on systems that were never designed for it.


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## Dak Man (Jul 4, 2015)

BOb, they might not have been originally designed to be a part of a system but Media Filters nowdays (and let alone by American Standard )are no joke. The biggest thing we are talking about when it comes to media filters is air restriction/static pressure. If not the media filter do you know what acts as a filter in the night when all the doors are closed? The carpet.

You can accommodate any and all media filters by altering a system's cfm. Or you may not have to if you get the right filter. This is where a magnohelic comes into play. 

Media filters are now the forefront of all things in indoor air quality and it is elementary to adjust a system to allow for one. 


My opinion and only mine. Good topic either way, but I insist on media filters at any cost.


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## Dak Man (Jul 4, 2015)

ps, Amana is the higher end series of Goodman. many 16 seer and above Amana systems have lifetime warranties on compressors. And yes, they are made here in Houston.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The evap coil of an A/C when wet has a MERV value of 6 for 10 and 12 fin per inch coils, I believe its a MERV 8 for 14 fin per inch coils.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Dak Man said:


> You can accommodate any and all media filters by altering a system's cfm.


And that's exactly what the article is saying. ECM's will simply adjust for a higher rpm. The crunch there is a higher operating cost. The article also made it a point to mention it was testing clean filters only and a slightly loaded filter is likely to drive operating costs even higher.

But let's make one thing clear... this is about turning your furnace into an air purifier and while newer systems _may_ have been built with that idea in mind, many older ones or standard ones have not.

When I built my system I spent a fair bit of time researching the pros/cons of this new 'green filter era' and finally decided on the old fashioned Hammock style filter. It offers adequate furnace protection, increased surface area, and cheaper operating costs. The only down side to it is that it is not quite as user friendly as today's slide in/out box filter.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Which contractor is doing a load calculation? Or are they just bidding whatever size you already have and hoping that's right?


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

beenthere said:


> The evap coil of an A/C when wet has a MERV value of 6 for 10 and 12 fin per inch coils, I believe its a MERV 8 for 14 fin per inch coils.


Regardless of what filter you use, you SHOULD be doing maintenance on it once a year (although many don't bother until it breaks down on them) and that includes checking/cleaning the evap fins. If your system is set up so you can easily access both sides of the evap then there are no issues.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Less then 5% of the units I work on are easy full access to the evap coil.
Could be more or less for other contractors.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

yuri said:


> Yeah, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.
> 
> Timed defrost vs demand defrost I would not worry about if you are moving. Timed defrosts the outdoor coil on a run timer and demand uses a temp sensor on the coil I believe. I don't see many heat pumps where I am as it gets too cold but I understand how they work. If no Rheem available I would go with the basic Goodman. You are not cold enough to do a lot of defrosting probably so I doubt it makes much difference which method.


The Amana quote is also a Goodman distributor. I think he thought, I thought, Goodman was not a good choice so he quoted Amana?
I will email him and ask him to quote a Goodman too.



Bob Sanders said:


> Well, they're not wrong... or at least I can see where they're coming from. They have had to add pleats to increase surface area on these high MERV filters because they're MUCH finer and would restrict otherwise.
> 
> Personally speaking I'm not a big believer in the higher MERV. Filters are installed to protect the equipment and your furnace was never really meant to be an air purifier. If you want an air purifier then you should go buy one. People are throwing 8's and 10's and 11's into their furnaces thinking it's healthier and not understanding the added restrictions they're possibly causing. To top it all off most residential systems are not that tightly sealed anyway.


Wish I had not mentioned the filters. This is the least of my concern at the moment. 



roughneck said:


> Which contractor is doing a load calculation? Or are they just bidding whatever size you already have and hoping that's right?


None are. The load calc was done when the original unit was installed. Then I had the contractor go up 1/2 ton for good measure.



Bob Sanders said:


> Regardless of what filter you use, you SHOULD be doing maintenance on it once a year (although many don't bother until it breaks down on them) and that includes checking/cleaning the evap fins. If your system is set up so you can easily access both sides of the evap then there are no issues.


I never checked the evaporator until I started having issues with the unit. To my surprise and to the surprise of everyone who has looked at it, it was spotless clean. Inside and out.
Looks almost new up there in that hot ass attic.

Since i am not staying in this house for much longer, and something must be done before I incur another service call for freon, I guess i will have to make a decision myself.
While I do appreciate everyones help, it seems I'm more confused now that I was before I posted this.

One more question: Can I get a cheap set of gauges and charge the unit myself?


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

New construction is usually oversized by the builder, with undersized duct. Don't go up "for good measure". Every replacement should have a load calc done. Bigger is not better and can do more harm then good.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I will give you the pragmatic approach.

You are not staying in the house long so I would get the least expensive but good quality unit that will do the job. That is Goodman. 10 yrs ago they got a VERY bad rap and reputation from a batch of faulty heat exchangers in furnaces plus they kinda invented the low budget builders grade furnaces and ACs. Now lots of other companies have them. Point being Goodman is good value for your $$ if you cannot get a Rheem/RUUD to do a basic entry level job. After that there are much more expensive units with lots more features in the other brands. If you are not staying in the house and don't need them end of story.

2) If the size you have now works and you are happy with it go with what works. Load calcs are fine in theory but I believe in a little bigger is better and not sizing to the minimum size.

3) If you have a big leak like you have you are losing quite a bit of oil with the freon and with a old unit and lost oil it won't last long or until you move IMO. May end up with a dead compressor soon. Better to replace it. Bad for the environment losing freon and it is illegal to not fix them and just recharge in Canada.

4) We get bored here and sometimes the threads get hijacked or wander. Not appealing to the OP but 90% never come back anyway and we need to have "fun" debating theory and nonsense.:yes::laughing:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

yuri said:


> 4) We get bored here and sometimes the threads get hijacked or wander. Not appealing to the OP but 90% never come back anyway and we need to have "fun" debating theory and nonsense.:yes::laughing:


Oh please.
We don't highjack threads.
So what do you think of the weather we're having right now?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

J. V. said:


> One more question: Can I get a cheap set of gauges and charge the unit myself?



If you also get your EPA 608 cert.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Just use some duct tape till you move, it'll hold.... Lol I'm JK. 

Seriously, i agree with yuri and been. Good luck!

Cheers!


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks again guys. I got one more guy coming out Saturday.
He sells Goodman.

Once i get his price, I will make a decision and inform the contractor that wins the bid.
I will also contact and thank the others for taking the time to come out and to quote the project.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

J. V. said:


> Thanks again guys. I got one more guy coming out Saturday.
> He sells Goodman.
> 
> Once i get his price, I will make a decision and inform the contractor that wins the bid.
> I will also contact and thank the others for taking the time to come out and to quote the project.


No matter what contractor you go with there is going to be some kind of price mark up on the parts so just for reference you can pick up a 2.5 ton goodman 14/15 seer complete with new air handler and 15 foot line set on line for about $1950


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

beenthere said:


> Less then 5% of the units I work on are easy full access to the evap coil.
> Could be more or less for other contractors.


I have easy full access to mine.... that's all I'm concerned with.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bob Sanders said:


> I have easy full access to mine....


As in you could lay under it to clean it if you wanted to?


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

beenthere said:


> As in you could lay under it to clean it if you wanted to?


Correct
I installed a 16 x 20 access hatch directly under the coil. It's actually built for the hammock filter but I made it big enough so I could get my head and arms in.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

If your filter is doing the job, the coil and blower will stay spotlessly clean.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

user_12345a said:


> If your filter is doing the job, the coil and blower will stay spotlessly clean.


Absolutely


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Okay guys. Made the decision today. Hired the quote I got this morning.

Goodman 14 seer, with line set included $3950.
Lifetime warranty on compressor, 10 years parts and 3 years labor.

Now the hardest part. Telling the others they lost the job.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

That is a good price. Where I am that would be $4500 and up. Depends on your cost of living. You MUST register it online or the warranty is shorter.

IMO I would leave them alone or keep it simple and short. Most likely they will try sweeten the deal or beg with a "free thermostat" or ask why they did not get the job etc. Kinda ugly IMO for both parties. Not their first day at the rodeo or job they did not get. Just part of business.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

yuri said:


> That is a good price. Where I am that would be $4500 and up. Depends on your cost of living. You MUST register it online or the warranty is shorter.
> 
> IMO I would leave them alone or keep it simple and short. Most likely they will try sweeten the deal or beg with a "free thermostat" or ask why they did not get the job etc. Kinda ugly IMO for both parties. Not their first day at the rodeo or job they did not get. Just part of business.


Yes, the price seemed right and he added the 3 year labor on top to seal the deal.
I have already let every other quote know I made the decision. Lucky I got voice mail and the other ones I emailed. 
I was in sales so I know I would have appreciated a call or note regardless if i got the sale or not.

I guess i can relax a little bit now. What a pain in the ass this has been.
I just realized the guy i hired made no mention of a thermostat! Its not on my quote either.
Should I keep the old spring type of just go and buy a decent digital.
I will ask the guy about it too.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

The spring type are not very accurate vs electronic. Elec are within 1 deg F and the spring 2-3 F. I would call him and ask him how much he wants for one or DIY. Honeywell makes good ones. Not sure which model # is good for heatpumps but the other guys here know. HDepot has them and as long as it says heat pump compatible should be fine.


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