# Wood-burning stove...connecting stovepipe to ceiling support box



## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

You either need a different adapter or is it possible to lower the pipe that's in "the box"?

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy S2


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

No, can't lower the adapter...it's a short thing. That wouldn't change the fit anyhoo. The handyman says I need a narrower stovepipe to be able to fit it inside the ceiling support box but if it's a tad narrower it won't fit over the bottom pipe.
Laura


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

Your handyman lacks knowledge about wood stove pipeing. Smpoke pipe come in even sizes, 6", 7" and larger in even inch increments. Get someone else. Preferably someon licensed, insured and bonded.

1. Start by contacting your insurance carrier and local building inspector office. 
2. Then http://www.selkirkcorp.com/installation-guides/Default.aspx?id=7930

3. Go to Sure Temp and view in flash http://www.selkirkcorp.com/flashGuide/english/cf/sentinel.swf

4. follow instructions. 
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/flashGuide/english/cf/sentinel.swf

5. choose the ceiling style and pipe arrangement. Follow instructions

6. Take pictures, file with instructions and insurance papers and building inspector report. 

Or hire the handyman who does not know how bad chimney installs can burn down a house, and you. Riding the tailboard for 20+ years gives me the right to have a bad attitude about crap stove installs.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

It was installed by professionals but leaked smoke into the house. The professionals said it's supposed to ! They are the only "professionals" in this town. That's where the handyman comes in...to fix the botch job that all the professional in this town do. So I want to know how it should be installed... from a source outside this town of professional idiot rip-off artists. I've had to learn how everything is built & watch over everyone. Even my wood shed collapsed. When it comes to "6 inch" telescoping pipe, one of the pipes is slightly larger than the other because one goes into the other. Thanks for the links but I can't open them on my computer. Looked all over the net but there is no mention of this particular detail in any instructions. Laura


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

In your state, are contractors licensed. Ask to see proof of license (if required), liability insurance, and a performance bond. If none of the above, don't hire them. Did you pay the hacks who did that unsafe job? 

OK, got to Selkirkcorp.com. Then click on the " view in flash". that should take you to a page listing installation of the Selkirk chimney products. Chimney installs are not rocket science, especially if you read the instructions. if you still cannot get the site, I can fax the page you need. I cannot e-mail it, I am not computer savvy. Or you could go to a lumber yard or hardware store that sell Selkirk products. and ask for an installtion sheet. 

I know how you feel, I neded to replace my smoke pipe. I was busy with my business and so I hired a friend who has a sheet metal shop. He was busy so he sent a couple of guys who had never installed smoke pipe before. If my girlfriend had not been home, I do not think they could have done the job. She had to tell them how to install the pipe. they wanted to put the large end into the ceiling box, they had no idea how to install the damper, and were completly baffled when she told them to screw the seam and pipe joints together. 

The knowledge and skills of the trades is poor and will continue to deteriate as long as our schools tell the kids they have to get a college education or they will be bums the rest of their lives.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

The hacks are licensed owners of the store I bought the stove at & paid for installation. Probably overcharged at that.
I can't open that site. Could be the "flash" or that I'm on dial-up. I can't get a fax either but thanks. I don't know the brand of my pipe to ask the lumberyard for the instructions. See some install instuctions say crimped end up, some say down. Some show the smaller pipe on the bottom, some the other way. I just want to know if they really did install it wrong(without paying someone else)...if the end of the pipe goes into the ceiling support box or just up against it. Then it's off to small claims court. :furious: I've had it with this town.
Laura


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Could you possibly take a picture showing more of the installation, that would helpful in us helping you.

In general though any flue pipe should fit inside going with the direction of flue gas flow. So that being said, top of stove first connect to stove outside of connection collar, the other end of that pipe should be inside the next pipe connection.

Mark


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I am not expert but I would guess that the wrong adapter is being used.
There is no way that smoke should leak into the house. That is not normal and just proves the installers don't have a clue what they were doing. Also indicates they probably don't know the correct parts to be using.

Why is a double wall pipe being used? Is there an air intake on the roof?
Post some info on the actual stove. Do you have any info on the make, model etc of the adapter piece?

EDIT to add more thoughts

Since this is a double wall pipe there should be no smoke in the outer pipe, thus no smoke infiltration. How is the inner pipe routed? Is it continuous all the way to the outside?


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

*od-burning stove...connecting stovepipe to ceiling support box*

6T-DS-CPA-6" Chimney Adapter
First red flag was when they told me that smoke always leaks in. :laughing:
There are benefits to double wall.
It's a Kuma Tamarack.
After 15 hrs on the net found my stovepipe is ICC (Industrial Chimney Company) adjustable pipe. Infortunately they're install instructions do not even say if the inner pipe goes on the bottom or top much less if the pipe at top is supposed to tuck UNDER the ceiling support box. The adapter isn't the issue because IF the pipe is supposed to tuck under the ceiling support the pipe is just a tad too wide fo the ceiling support box (the thing on the ceiling that looks like a top hat). Leads me to think the pipe is installed upside down...that the "inner" pipe of the adjustable pipe (think telescoping) should be on TOP. Some directions say that's the way it should be... And that although it seems wrong (seems that the smoke will seep out the seam on the way up) it won't... but any creosote will drop into the wider bottom pipe rather than on the stove. 
My 1st pic of the top is where it was leaking & consequently where creosote built up inside. That crimped end you see at the top fits over the adapter (tube-like protrusion) & there is a small space between the adapter & the inside wall of the ceiling support box. The handy man says the pipe should be up in that small space between the adapter & ceiling support & not just sitting there 1/8" from the ceiling support frame on the ceiling. Makes perfect sense to me. What DOESN'T is his suggestion to get a new narrower pipe to fit into the ceiling support box. They are standard in that the teenie bit smaller pipe I need could only exist in the form of the inner pipe of a telescoping pipe. See what I mean? That leaves me w/ 2 options... flip the stovepipe so that the narrower half is at top or look for a small tapered part that fits over the edge of the top pipe & has a slight taper that would fit in the hole in the ceiling instead of rest just under it. Hope you can follow this.  
The "inner pipe" you ask about isn't like you are imagining if I got your question right. The double wall pipe inself is an extra think pipe. It has 2 parts so that it can telescope- an "inner" and outer pipe that overlap a few inches in the middle. This is so you don't have to tip the stove to install the pipe. At the ceiling the adapter is a small piece of pipe that protrudes & at the top of the stove is a protrusion so w/o a telescoping pipe it would be quite difficult to install a pipe. That small part pic is the adapter -it's inside the black thing on the ceiling (ceiling support box) & sticks out about 3/4". The professionals:no: are also trying to tell me that the chimney sweep ruined their installation but a freaking child could put it back together - line up the screw holes & put the screws back - not rocket science to put it back to original configuration.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The installation guide can be found on this page.

http://www.build.com/mediabase/specifications/mbstovepipeinstallguide.pdf

In step 3 they mention a finishing band. I don't think I see that on your install.
I also found this note


> This CPA adapter provides proper connection to Selkirk model dripless stove pipe.


Are you using the Selkirk pipe or some other brand?


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

Stovepipe definitely isn't supposed to leak smoke, but they _will _all smoke the first few times you fire them. The paint burns off "stuff."

But here's a problem -- your pipe is upside down. The crimped end goes down.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

According to the above instructions (page 2 top right) the crimped end of the wider (outer) pipe of the telescopic pipe goes up & the crimped end of the narrower (inner) pipe goes INTO the stove. But on the top of page 4 ...Installation Guide #1 The female end of the telescopic pipe is “over the appliance outlet collar”... that's how mine is. In step 3 they say to extend the telescopic length up - w/o making it clear if it’s the inner or outer pipe actually. In fig A the “telescopic length” is the bottom pipe & in fig B it’s the top pipe so there is no indication which half is the inner/outer. 
With respect to the rule that you shouldn't mix brands the adapter appears to be Metalbest by Selkirk & the pipe is by Industrial Chimney Company & I don't know what brand the chimney pipe in the ceiling & attic is. :-/. An inspector would have to know all the brands by sight or I'd have to start from scratch...which, around here, will probably result in a roof leak when they run a different chimney pipe.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

joed thanks, looked at the install guide. Looks like maybe it was done right...SEEMS the top of the pipe isn't supposed to be inside the ceiling support box. I seem to have the Selkirk Assembly in fig 1A as far as the adapter is concerned.
on my receipt is:
6T-DS-CPA-6" chimney adapter 
ICUC6UBAF Black Adjust 40-68"( it's an Ultrablack double-wall by ICC)
The ceiling support & everything above it was already in place when I bought the house so I don't know what brand everything else is. :-/ 
I took the strap off to see what was going on up there.
I was whacked out by gas-like fumes for some time (I'm very sensitive to EVERYTHING & thought it was just me- that it was the build-up of plastic stuff in here that made me ill now that the windows were closed). Since Sept I decided I'd rather only sleep several hours at a time and keep adding wood than wake up to a cold house. About a week ago that got old & I did the ol' morning start-up. I saw smoke & shut it down.
Then I had the chimney & pipe cleaned - it was so clogged there was about an inch space for air from that top connection to the roof. Obviously the air leak up at the top caused such a fast build-up. It was cleaned before start-up in Sept ! Last winter all my wood was damp to wet (can't get dry wood in winter here if your stash got wet somehow- enter broken shed built by a "professional") & the chimney was nowhere near as clogged as it was a few days ago. So I don't get it at all. Sigh. I can see it now. I call an out of town installer & he says I have to replace everything- chimney and all.


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

The large round part on the ceiling support is called a "bucket". 

The 6T-DS-CPA-6" should screw into the chimney and the crimped end should drop down through the bucket. If you take out the screws at the top and in the middle of your telescopic pipe, then you should see the crimped end of the 6T-DS-CPA-6".

Based on my reading of the ICC website, the larger part of the telescopic pipe goes up. It looks like that's how it is in the photo. It says that the pipe goes over the adapter. Assuming your 6T part drops down through the bucket, then the Ultrablack part should be over it, and you wouldn't see the 6T part. In other words, If your 6t-ds-cpa is coming down through the bucket, then I think everything is the way it's supposed to be.

It should be a tight fit. The ultrablack comes with a trim ring to cover the crimp at the top. It sounds like it's a decorative part, since they call it a trim ring. You could probably get one from the manufacturer.

This stuff says you can use it for sealing stovepipe: http://www.efireplacestore.com/fsd-71.html?productid=fsd-71&channelid=FROOG 

In your first photo it looks like someone had put something like that around the top previously. Generally speaking, stovepipe doesn't need sealant -- the draft of the system keeps smoke from coming into the room from any little cracks. You might have a blocked chimney. Especially since you mention wet wood. Wet wood will dry pretty quickly though, so long as it's not green. Just put it on your porch in the sun and wind or something for a few days and it will dry.

If you can see the chimney in your attic you want to see that the chimney does not touch anything that can burn, and if you have loose insulation, you want to see a sheetmetal box with a storm collar surrounding the chimney to keep insulation away from it.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

pyper, yep, the adapter is like you said ...with the exception that I haven't had the connection it makes with the chimney rechecked by someone else yet. Waiting for the chimney sweep now to make sure it actually makes a connection.I took the trim ring off to eyeball the area.The wood is dry this year plus I have 2 wood racks in the house, each holding approx 38 pieces. I refill when 1 is empty. So the wood is indoors for at least 52 hrs before it's used. It was last winter that the wood was wet & it was extremely wet & sunless outside. It just got more & more damp as the winter dragged on. I brought them in (& they still didn't dry well) until all that was left was moldy & I wouldn't bring that in. Nobody has wood for sale around here from Jan to June or so... not even wet wood. What's weird is that the chimney should have been a royal mess when I had it cleaned this summer (after all that wet wood / low burn) but the royal mess was a week ago after burning dry wood for 2 1/2 months!


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

Maybe your chimney sweep can verify that the stove pipe connects to the adapter.

Regarding your wood, I've found that the $10 moisture meter I got from harborfreight.com is really useful. I split a piece of wood, and it tells me what the moisture content is. Under 20% is considered good. I've found between 11% and 25%.

An infrafed thermometer is a good thing to have too. You can use it to see how hot your stove is, how hot the stovepipe is, and how warm the room is. I got mine at lowes for about $25.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

Hopefully he can. Hasn't returned my call yet. Typical around here. It could take months. :whistling2:The up side - if I don't get to burn what I have I won't have to stack wood in the summer.
I do have a thermometer on the stove. I'll have to pass on the other purchases. If I had money to burn I'd scrap all the work it takes to burn wood & use electric heat.
When I talked to Kuma today it turns out I'm burning wrong. I should be getting it up to 7 or 8 hundred & then closing the vent. I've been getting it to 5 or 6 hundred & then keeping the vent slightly opened. The stove was always between 350 & 450. I'd have to open all the windows with that thing at 7 hundred ! He said it should take about 30 min to get it up that high.That will cause major temp fluctuations in here. Gee, I hate using a wood burning stove even more now. Makes me nervous to have it get so hot too- a toasted ceiling.


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

Burning wood is an art. But after awhile, you will get so you know what kind of burn/heat you will get depending on the species of wood, quality of wood, size of wood, and how to lay the fire. The amount of air introduced into the firebox and the opening of the draft control make a difference. There are so many variables. 

Got one of these yet? Moves a gentle breeze. Works very well. Ours even goes to hunting camp and sits on the wood stove. Last year in Elk Camp, the temp outside dropped to -5°F. We were warm in the wall tent with teh little fan. 


http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/sear...fan&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products&x=29&y=7


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

I thought I perfected the art. Also been patting myself on the back after last winter - a wet winter, with wet wood, with an inversion more often than not. 
Not so sure I'd be happy with that fan & I simply can't afford it. I can't work due to extreme intolerance to everyday chemicals (perfume, cleaning products etc) &, after bills, I have about $200 a month left for everything else. Dial-up for the computer, no cable, no TV... nothing that isn't a necessity.


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

My stove has never been over 500. 

They're all different, but 800 sounds too high. Look up the instruction book online -- just google the manufacturer.

You generally want to close the vent in stages. With my stove, when it gets up to 300 or so (maybe 15 minutes -- basically a good fire) I close the vent 1/3 to 1/2. Then a bit more when I start to see secondary combustion.

In most cases if I close the vent all the way the fire won't burn well. If you have a weak draft, or sub-optimal wood, then you might need to leave yours open too.

You might want to check out hearth.com It's a forum primarily for wood stove people.


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

I was getting it to about 500, closing down in stages & keeping it about 350-375 (last year), 375-450 (this yr). It was Kuma, the manufacturer, that said 700-800 at start-up & then shut down all the way! I've never gotten it to burn the wood all the way w/ the vent completely closed...it would go out eventually leaving charred unused wood. Kuma said it's because I need to do what they said. 
Still doesn't explain why I had no problems last year.
I'm communicating at hearth.com too.
Speaking of drafts, is my chimney too short?


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## Laura J. (Jul 26, 2010)

Mystery solved. The probable reason for my chimney clogging in 2 1/2 months of burning dry wood hotter that last years wet wood was that the handyman did not do a thorough job cleaning my chimney this summer before burn season. The handyman that cleaned my stove in the summer is the same guy who cleaned it again after the smoke was coming into the house a week ago. Two days ago I got a chimney sweep in to inspect the connections. A cleaning was another $20 so I had him do it. There was a clog a few feet down from the top of the chimney that had an opening about the size of a baseball for smoke to escape. So the handyman was not thorough a week ago & might not have been in the summer either. Regarding Kuma's suggestion to get it up to 700 or 800 & shut it completely - the chimney sweep was appalled by such bad advice & said that when his stove goes into the red he SCRAMBLES to get it down - for fear of fire. BTW he said it's installed correctly & the adapter fits fine. Thanks to all for your input.


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

I am pleased you got the problem fixed. And now you have chinmey cleaner that you can trust.


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