# Wiring on cylinder block walls



## jelly (Oct 19, 2007)

Friend of mine wants to install outlets, switches and lighting in his unfinished basement. He will not be finishing the walls so the wiring will be installed directly on the cylinder block walls.

What do i need to do differently than wiring on studs? I assume I need to run conduit of some sort. Are there any general codes that I need to consider?

Thanks


----------



## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

jelly said:


> Friend of mine wants to install outlets, switches and lighting in his unfinished basement. He will not be finishing the walls so the wiring will be installed directly on the cylinder block walls.
> 
> What do i need to do differently than wiring on studs? I assume I need to run conduit of some sort. Are there any general codes that I need to consider?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, there are codes to consider. I don't know what you mean about wiring on studs? 

You need to use ridgid conduit on the exposed walls, the common choice is called EMT, in 1/2 inch, it is metal conduit that is used for electrical work. 

Jamie


----------



## jelly (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks Jamie, I just meant typical wiring on wood studs. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Agreed, you have to use conduit to protect the wires from physical damage wherever they drop down against the cinder blocks from the ceiling or up from the floor. Horizontal runs need to be protected as well. EMT is a great option, and is reasonably DIYer friendly.


----------



## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Use conduit with the proper fittings, you should use emt and emt to romex connectors. Make sure the boxes are bonded to the ground conductor.

A lot of people forget about the bushings or fill capacity. Make sure your not overfilling the conduit. Do not strip all of the sheathing off of the romex when in the conduit.


----------



## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

I would use EMT connectors at the top of the conduit to protect the cable from the raw steel edge. Staple the cable cleanly after it exits the conduit.

I would use 4 square deep boxes and industrial device covers. 

I would use 1/4" plastic screw anchors and minimum 1 1/4" long #10 screws

I would use 3/4" conduit with two straps on the block.

Ground/bond the metal boxes.


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Ever since I have used concrete screws I will never go back to anchors of any kind except "nail ins" . I love the blue screws. A little pricey but well worth the time saved. I think they make a drill bit/driver in one piece so you do not have to change from drill bits to drivers.


----------



## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

J. V. said:


> Ever since I have used concrete screws I will never go back to anchors of any kind except "nail ins" . I love the blue screws. A little pricey but well worth the time saved. I think they make a drill bit/driver in one piece so you do not have to change from drill bits to drivers.


Try the "zamac" hammer drive pins. I used to swear bu tapcons, but I have had them loosen on me. A zamac won't come out. I won't fasten anything to concrete or block with anything else.


----------



## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Try the "zamac" hammer drive pins. I used to swear bu tapcons, but I have had them loosen on me. A zamac won't come out. I won't fasten anything to concrete or block with anything else.


Those are what I use to attach outlets and switch boxes to my basement walls.

Line them up stright the first time, as unlike tapcons which are fairly easy to remove with a screw gun and nut driver, as Inphase said, they don't come out, even if you want them to.

-Jamie


----------



## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

I refuse to use these because


> A zamac won't come out.


I do a LOT of retro work and I *like* things to come apart :thumbup:

Somebody, someday is going to have to remove it.:yes:


----------



## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

I know what I would do, nail some 2x's flat to the wall and run the NM down that. Emt is going to cost more in material and labor. Although, most areas are not as smart as the Northeast, so your area may not allow exposed NM period. *dumb in my opinion*


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

rgsgww said:


> Use conduit with the proper fittings, you should use emt and emt to romex connectors. Make sure the boxes are bonded to the ground conductor.
> 
> A lot of people forget about the bushings or fill capacity. Make sure your not overfilling the conduit. Do not strip all of the sheathing off of the romex when in the conduit.


I'm pretty sure fill capacity does not apply. Otherwise I don't think 12/2 romex would not be allowed at all in 1/2 inch EMT, since I believe you have to consider it as if it were round and the diameter of its biggest cross section.


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

220/221 said:


> I would use EMT connectors


You all are recommending these a lot lately for sleeving romex. As far as I can tell, they only come in 1/2 inch. You all ever jam two 12/2 romex down 5 feet of 1/2 inch EMT? It's no fun. I am using 3/4th inch now and it's way nicer.

I went with those plastic bushings instead, because they come in 3/4th inch (and all sizes). The 2005 code mentions a "nonmetallic bushing" as being acceptable, though in 2008 they strike the word nonmetallic, presumably to clarify that the EMT to NM metallic fittings are permitted as well.


----------



## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> You all are recommending these a lot lately for sleeving romex. As far as I can tell, they only come in 1/2 inch.


Electrical Metalic Tubing is 1/2" thru 4".


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Electrical Metalic Tubing is 1/2" thru 4".


I did a lot of searching and the EMT-to-NM fittings only come in 1/2 inch that I could find.

The plastic insulating bushings however, come in every trade size.


----------



## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Ahhhh..I see.


I don't _connect _the NM to the EMT.


----------



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

I might be missing something, but I'm with 220/221 in that I don't see a reason to connect the NM wire to the EMT. Are we talking about a romex clamp-type connector at the end of a run of conduit? There probably is one, but I can't think of any circumstance that would necessitate using that fitting.


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

thekctermite said:


> Are we talking about a romex clamp-type connector at the end of a run of conduit? There probably is one, but I can't think of any circumstance that would necessitate using that fitting.


Yes we are, and there is indeed one. It only seems to exist in 1/2 inch though. That is why I'm concerned, it's much easier to put 2x12/2 romex down 3/4 inch than 1/2 inch. People might think they are limited to 1/2 inch.

It was recommended earlier in this thread even:



rgsgww said:


> Use conduit with the proper fittings, you should use emt *and emt to romex *connectors


220/221 said this and I thought he was referring to the same thing:



220/221 said:


> I would use EMT connectors at the top of the conduit


But apparently he was referring to a normal device connector, with the threads just hanging.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Let me add addtional comment related to this.

In unfinshed basement you will require a GFCI protection on receptales in unfinshed basement.

Keep in your mind when it become finshed basement room it either will stay on GFCI or switchover to AFCI depending on the code cycle and what the local requirement will be add to it.

Merci,Marc


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(fdpnjf45wkfw1255i0jvhq55)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=3002912

That reminds me, I'm going to have to order these. They don't have them at my local store, and I'm not paying the price for a GFCI breaker!


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

> *Wiring on cylinder block walls*


Why is he trying to put wiring on his car engine or is his basement built out of old engine blocks?

A cylinder block


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Try the "zamac" hammer drive pins. I used to swear bu tapcons, but I have had them loosen on me. A zamac won't come out. I won't fasten anything to concrete or block with anything else.


I use the "nail ins too". They will come out with a heavy hammer and chisel. Of course any device (box/strap) will be destroyed by removing them.

I like the option to remove the screw if needed. I was raised on nail drivers and like them as well.


----------



## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

J. V. said:


> I use the "nail ins too". They will come out with a heavy hammer and chisel. Of course any device (box/strap) will be destroyed by removing them.
> 
> I like the option to remove the screw if needed. I was raised on nail drivers and like them as well.


If you get the hammer-drives from a home center, like Home Depot, they don't have the option to remove the center pin. The ones I buy from the electrical supply have a phillips head on the center pin, so
they can be backed out. Then a gentle tap will loosen the body, and you remove it with piers.


----------



## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

joed said:


> Why is he trying to put wiring on his car engine or is his basement built out of old engine blocks?
> 
> A cylinder block


It took me quite a while to figure out he meant "cinder block" too. I thought there was some kind of strange building material I hadn't heard of.


----------



## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> apparently he was referring to a normal device connector, with the threads just hanging.


Correct......except it's a _box_ connector. A device would be a sw or recep. The insulated throat protects the cable from the raw edge of the conduit.

I didn't even notice the cylinder thing :jester:


----------



## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Nice picture Joe.... I think metal fasteners and a ramset would be compliant. So long as you didn't install the pistons.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Gigs said:


> It took me quite a while to figure out he meant "cinder block" too. I thought there was some kind of strange building material I hadn't heard of.


I figured that was what he meant but couldn't resit the urge to post the picture.


----------

