# Secure a free standing wall....



## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

I need help securing in an open end of a free standing wall. Here's the scoop:

building a 42" High x 29 1/2' long. One end is going to be secured to a cinder block wall, but the other end which is an open end will have a 2' L at the end of it. (if that confused you, the end is just framed out like an L at the end of the wall.) I know the wall will be wobbly even with this L piece at the end. The wall will be sitting on a cement slab on the main level of a warehouse. I believe there's maybe a rod of some sort I can put through the framing and into the floor, but I've never done it before and don't know what I'm looking for. Or if there's another way to secure the frame and stop the wobbling Im up for any ideas...
HELP! lol thanks in advance


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

oddjobrookie said:


> I need help securing in an open end of a free standing wall. Here's the scoop:
> 
> building a 42" High x 29 1/2' long. One end is going to be secured to a cinder block wall, but the other end which is an open end will have a 2' L at the end of it. (if that confused you, the end is just framed out like an L at the end of the wall.) I know the wall will be wobbly even with this L piece at the end. The wall will be sitting on a cement slab on the main level of a warehouse. I believe there's maybe a rod of some sort I can put through the framing and into the floor, but I've never done it before and don't know what I'm looking for. Or if there's another way to secure the frame and stop the wobbling Im up for any ideas...
> HELP! lol thanks in advance


Bolt the base to the floor. You can use an anchor epoxied in or a friction fit anchor.
Glue and screw 1/2" ply to the studs to minimize vertical movement. Put sheetrock over the top for the finished wall.


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> Bolt the base to the floor. You can use an anchor epoxied in or a friction fit anchor.
> Glue and screw 1/2" ply to the studs to minimize vertical movement. Put sheetrock over the top for the finished wall.


Didn't think of the plywood idea...but with the length of the wall i don't know how effective of minimizing of the movement though. Might try putting 1 or 2 more supporting walls (like the L shaped one at the end) maybe every third of the way.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

oddjobrookie said:


> Didn't think of the plywood idea...but with the length of the wall i don't know how effective of minimizing of the movement though. Might try putting 1 or 2 more supporting walls (like the L shaped one at the end) maybe every third of the way.


If you do it correctly, the wall will be rigid, even without the "L".


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

*Wobbly walls*

What's the wall thickness and what is it made of?. Assuming you're using hollow 7'' wide cinder blocks (we call them concrete blocks here), you first place 5/8'' deformed bar (rods) verticallly every 3'0'' of length of the wall in the centre of the wall, where they correspond to the hollows in the blockwork and let them into 3/4 holes drilled in the concrete slab at least 4'' deep and epoxy them in place using the recommended epoxy. As these rods need to be just short of the height of the wall, they will need temporary support until the epoxy sets. 

Before drilling the holes in the concrete, lay down one layer of blocks with correct joint widths without mortar and mark of the centre lines where the rods come through the hollows of the block. be carefull that the second layer hollows also correspond to allow the rods to protrude right up to the top of the wall. Then drill the holes, epoxy the rod ends and temporarily brace till epoxy sets. Epoxy should fill and ooze out from the hole. Then as each layer is put down , fill all hollows with concrete, especially around the rods. When wall mortar dries completely in about 48 hours, wall is considered strong enough for its purpose, and will withstand normal wind loads up to 75 m.p.h. 

Note these walls are assumed to be free standing and the end L shape return is not required, though it will help stability. Also, these free standing walls are considered as partition walls, not retaining walls. 

For retaining walls, you must consult a structural engineer to design one that can take high side and overturning loads. Do not use single thickness un- reinforced brickwork, as wind loads alone can overturn this wall. If you want to use brickwork, you would do exactly as above, use two skins and fill the reinforced cavity with concrete. Hollow blocks are easier and cheaper and do the job just as well, unless you can access cheap bricks. Running the idea past a structural engineer would be a sound practice. Cheers from Oz.


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

JoJo-Arch said:


> What's the wall thickness and what is it made of?. Assuming you're using hollow 7'' wide cinder blocks (we call them concrete blocks here), you first place 5/8'' deformed bar (rods) verticallly every 3'0'' of length of the wall in the centre of the wall, where they correspond to the hollows in the blockwork and let them into 3/4 holes drilled in the concrete slab at least 4'' deep and epoxy them in place using the recommended epoxy. As these rods need to be just short of the height of the wall, they will need temporary support until the epoxy sets.
> 
> Before drilling the holes in the concrete, lay down one layer of blocks with correct joint widths without mortar and mark of the centre lines where the rods come through the hollows of the block. be carefull that the second layer hollows also correspond to allow the rods to protrude right up to the top of the wall. Then drill the holes, epoxy the rod ends and temporarily brace till epoxy sets. Epoxy should fill and ooze out from the hole. Then as each layer is put down , fill all hollows with concrete, especially around the rods. When wall mortar dries completely in about 48 hours, wall is considered strong enough for its purpose, and will withstand normal wind loads up to 75 m.p.h.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Arch thanks for the reply...I'm building a wooden framed wall, finished with sheetrock...Can I still do the 5/8'' deformed bar and have it work still. This was the idea I had but wasn't sure how to go about it.


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

No, the reinforcing bars as described are only suitable for masonry walls or concrete walls. If you are thinking timber framed, the problem you have to overcome are the posts. The best, easiest and strongest fence (though not necessarily the cheapest) is to have 4x4 steel posts 1/4'' thick at maximum 9'0'' spacing with 3no.- 2x6 timber rails laid on the flat between the posts. The 4x4 posts can be light gauge, but need to be prepared as follows. Decide on the fence height. This system will permit heights up to 6'0''. Note what size your sheet rock comes in. Choose the approriate height to match the sheet size nearest your desired height to avoid cutting the sheets and waste. Manufacture each post as follows: Cut 6no. 2x2 angle 4'' long pre drill both sides of each angle with 3/8 holes 3'' apart and 1/2'' from all edges. Put aside. For each post, cut 12''x12''x3/8'' thick plate and predrill 5/8'' holes at each corner set back 1'' from the edges, then weld all round to bottom of post, placing post as centered as possible. Place angle brackets back to back either side of post with top flats on the horizontal at 1/3 intervals along the post. Clamp the bottom pair so the bottom edge of each bracket sits on the plate at the base. Either weld the brackets to the post or drill through the 3/8 holes and bolt with galvanized 3/8 bolts sandwiching the post between the brackets. Repeat at centre of post. Repeat at top of post, keeping the brackets about 2'' below the top to allow for timber rails, or allow rails to continue above each post and make the brackets flush. Treat the posts with proper steel etch primer and steel epoxy paint for long life. Better still, have all steel hot dipped galvanized. Mark the centre line of the fence on the concrete using chalk line. mark centres at 9'0'' intervals to align the steel posts. Mark holes in base plate on concrete at each post. either use epoxy chem set anchors at least 1/2'' diameter or masonry anchor bolts (1/2'') so choose drill size accordingly. Prepare concrete bolts and when dry, fit each post and base plate and thighten all 4 bolts. Measure between each post and cut 3 no 2x6 planks laid horizontally and on the flat on top of eack bracket. Drill through holes in brackets from underneath through plank rails and bolt with 3/8'' galvanized bolts. As the rails can sag, fit a prop in the centre and screw the sheet rock to all rails. The sheet rock can run past each post and the posts become invisible. Note, end posts only require one set of brackets to one side. Pack out end posts to return sheet rock. Run sheet rock fillet on top to seal fence all round. This fence can be of endless length as long as spacings are maintained as above. The fence will end up 6'' wide plus the sheet rock.

This system is based on a design load of wind of 14 lbs per sq ft. Each post will need to withstand 6x9x14 lbs = 750 lbs of side thrust, so don't skimp on sizes of bolts or post. Also, *you must* run the system past a Structural Engineer for Certification. The maximum wind speed the fence will stand is 75 mph. If this is exceeded, the fence will bend and flatten, but won't fly off. This job involves safety aspects, and must not be compromised with bodgy work or inferior materials and needs proper engineering certification.


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

I forgot to add: As I'm not familiar with the sheet rock and its spanning qualities, you may and should fix 1/2'' plywood sheet before fixing the sheet rock. This will make the wall strong enough to withstand gentle car knocks without caving in, if cars are likely to be about.


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

Ok sorry, I don't thunk I mentioned this is just a basic interior wall, I ended up building a frame as any normal wall just at 42" high and the owner wanted it 29.5' long free standing at one end with the other I used a ramjet to secure it to the adjacent wall it's attached to. With an L bracket at the end and mid point along with plywood it seems to be very sturdy. Thanks for the help


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

No you didn't mention this was a sh**ty internal non load bearing wall. A chook fence would do.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

oddjobrookie said:


> I need help securing in an open end of a free standing wall. Here's the scoop:
> 
> building a 42" High x 29 1/2' long. One end is going to be secured to a cinder block wall, but the other end which is an open end will have a 2' L at the end of it. (if that confused you, the end is just framed out like an L at the end of the wall.) I know the wall will be wobbly even with this L piece at the end. The wall will be sitting on a cement slab on the main level of a warehouse. I believe there's maybe a rod of some sort I can put through the framing and into the floor, but I've never done it before and don't know what I'm looking for. Or if there's another way to secure the frame and stop the wobbling Im up for any ideas...
> HELP! lol thanks in advance





JoJo-Arch said:


> No you didn't mention this was a sh**ty internal non load bearing wall. A chook fence would do.


I think it's pretty clear......................:whistling2:

You could have also epoxied a 3/8" or bigger threaded rod into the floor, extended it entirely through the height of the wall, placed a large washer (the bigger and thicker, the better) over the top, and tightened it down to pull the wall to the floor and tighten it up. I've done this before for tall, narrow masonry columns with good success.


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

Yep! no matter how old you get, you still fall for the dipsticks out there trying to help them.


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

Jojo I appreciate the help no hard feelings here hope u didn't take my correction to heart, half my fault I never mentioned it being inside


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

jomama45 said:


> You could have also epoxied a 3/8" or bigger threaded rod into the floor, extended it entirely through the height of the wall, placed a large washer (the bigger and thicker, the better) over the top, and tightened it down to pull the wall to the floor and tighten it up. I've done this before for tall, narrow masonry columns with good success.


That was another option I heard about but have never done it before


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

Sorry about the sour grapes, I now realize I was blinded and went off track, thinking somehow it was an external wall (and therefore subject to much higher forces and loads). Tieing the wall down as described with chem set 3/8 treaded rods is a good idea. I would space them at 4'0'' centres. This combination of tension (rods) and compression (studs) would certainly make the wall far more ridged.

Cheers, From Joe in Oz.


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## oddjobrookie (Nov 9, 2011)

Only the side you can see is plywood...other side is open still waiting for inspector


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