# Heating Costs?



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

It would be interesting to hear what heating costs are around the country.
I'm interested to hear what:
Gallon of heating oil costs
Gallon of propane
Cubic foot of natural gas
Monthly bill

This Winter fuel costs are much higher on Long Island than ever before.
Ron


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,... I threw the valves on a homemade Owb the Sunday after Christmas,...
I'm burnin' chunk wood I've bartered for with a local Tree service,...
Pretty much Free... Heat, 'n hotwater anyways,...

Propane for the stove, 'n dryer is an annual event, fillin' my customer owned tanks, 2, 100lb.ers...
Don't remember the last fill up,... $3., 'n change a gallon, I believe...

Electric is runnin' about a Buck, 'n 1/2 a month,... 
That's up from the usual summer bill of a Buck a month, but comsiderably lower since ditchin' the Electric dryer, 'n Hotwater...
Used to run $250.+ a month...

That's all dependin' on how many of My Love's kids have shown up, 'n for how long,...


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## no1hustler (Aug 11, 2010)

My last fill for heating oil was $2.99/gallon. I think its closer to $3.05 now. Right now I'm on a budget plan of $109 a month all year. We are probably going to blow that out of the water this year. We will pay way more than we use. Last year, my budget plan was $125 a month. I did a lot to seal up the house and I think that is making a difference with the heat this year.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I used about 200 therms of natural gas in January this year. That tranlates to $300.00 for the month.
Electric cost was $165.00 for 800 KWH. LIPA charges about 28 cents a KWH. if I read this correctly. They charge you for the watts and then they charge you "Delivery and System charges" to get it to you.
Ron


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## suprvee (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm running natural gas, keeping the house at 62 when I'm home, and 50 when I'm sleeping/away. It's 1957 ranch, 1600 square feet and I'm at $200/month. I live alone, so I don't mind the cold; once family/friends come over I increase it to 68ish. This summer I'll be insulating, and possibly installing a woodstove.


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## High Gear (Nov 30, 2009)

Natural gas here which is around .50 cents a therm , about as cheap a heating fuel there is.

Yearly average gas bill $61.21 per month ( includes gas dryer and stove )( I looked at my online gas account for this figure)

the last 2 months were $112 and $110 ( northern tip of Illinois)

2200sq ft house kept at 71/72f winter and 77f summer

Electric is pushing .11 cents a KW ( co-op ).

Electric runs around $115-$160 ( winter/summer ac ).
( electric hot water )

I have some more insulating and tricks to do so I should be able to improve this a bit in the future.

Ni-Gas has your account history back 3 years ( online ), heating degree days, therm costs , therm usage , total bill.
This is pretty handy when comparing upgrades in efficiency.


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## comanche (Oct 20, 2010)

*heating cost*

*I live in south east ohio and just paid $2.15 a gallon for propane*


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## High Gear (Nov 30, 2009)

Ron6519 said:


> I used about 200 therms of natural gas in January this year. That tranlates to $300.00 for the month.
> Electric cost was $165.00 for 800 KWH. LIPA charges about 28 cents a KWH. if I read this correctly. They charge you for the watts and then they charge you "Delivery and System charges" to get it to you.
> Ron


800KW X .28C = $224.00 not including taxes/delivery 

I suspect your KW price is high but not as high as you believe.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

High Gear said:


> 800KW X .28C = $224.00 not including taxes/delivery
> 
> I suspect your KW price is high but not as high as you believe.


Comes out to about 20.3 cents a KWH. Much better, but still 160.00+ for January. 
Ron


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

comanche said:


> *I live in south east ohio and just paid $2.15 a gallon for propane*


My only point of reference is for filling a 20 lb barbecue tank this Summer. It ran about $24.00 with tax. 
Doing research for a generator in upstate NY 2 years ago, propane was over $3.00 a gal(100 lb tank). It was just about the same cost per gal as #2 heating oil. At that time gasoline was at the $3.38 a gal., just like now.
How does this years price compare to last Winter?
Ron


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## comanche (Oct 20, 2010)

*best i can tell it's a little cheaper this winter. i also have a correction to make. i'm not in south east ohio i'm in north east ohio. sorry....*


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

For me, last month was around $95 for 112 therms of Natural Gas through Ameren. Electric part of my city owned utility bill for Water, Sewer, Electric was $70 (672KWh @ $0.0706 /KWh ($47.44), Fuel Adj. 672 @ $0.024737 /KWh (16.62) (tax 2.15)).


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

3.60 - 3.80 per gallon for oil around here, Upstate NY. They've been topping off my tank twice a month, costs 350-360 each time. I tried taping the bill above the thermostat in the hopes that the other members of the house would excercise restraint. But, somebody took it down- probably my wife.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Jim F said:


> 3.60 - 3.80 per gallon for oil around here, Upstate NY. They've been topping off my tank twice a month, costs 350-360 each time. I tried taping the bill above the thermostat in the hopes that the other members of the house would excercise restraint. But, somebody took it down- probably my wife.


Up in Copake, NY, my customer is paying about the same. The winter of 2008/2009 it was also that high.
Ron


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Correction 225-260 per month. Still about twice as much as I paid last year.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

My shop is propane, along with the house hot water. I always pre-buy in Aug./Sep. 

Last winter: $1.45/gallon
This winter: $1.69/gallon


Oil heat in house:
Oct. '09: 2.24/gallon
Oct. '10: 2.59/gallon
Feb. '10: 2.99/gallon


We have a 500 gal. tank, and have always made it through the year on one oil fill, but with an bambino in the house now, that's no longer the case.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

After taxes and service fees gas is $1.05 a therm and electric is 9 cents. Last month was very cold, below freezing for highs and several sub zero mornings. Heating bill for 1000 square foot home was $70. We keep the thermostat at 68 to sleep, 65 at work and 73 the rest of the time. Double pane windows with storms and roughly R45 in the attic. Walls are the weak spot with only R4 but that will get corrected this summer.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

I paid 40 pence per litre for heating oil this year. Got single glazed windows and solid stone 2ft thick walls. It's hard to get the temperature up to 70f in the evening when it's below freezing outside.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

stuart45 said:


> I paid 40 pence per litre for heating oil this year. Got single glazed windows and solid stone 2ft thick walls. It's hard to get the temperature up to 70f in the evening when it's below freezing outside.


C'mon another mason that's too lazy to build himself a fireplace in his own home???? :whistling2:

Stu, I really think your home was meant to be heated with a wood fire.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

You are quite right Joe, it should have a woodburner, but the house insurance would be really high with my type of roof. Here's a photo my daughter took in December of the icicles outside her room. As you can see there's a lot of stuff up there to catch fire easily. Most of the thatches round here that go up in smoke are caused by woodburners.







Here's one that got a stray spark.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

OK then, that certainly makes sense. I'd have to assume it originally was heated with wood due to it's age. Did it always have the thatch roof? Was it just something they had no other choice on years ago, and you just had to take the chance?


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## jankencanada (Jul 23, 2010)

*Fuel Costs*

Mississauga Ontario Canada

Natural Gas=13.7818cents/M3( plus delivery,trans,.Cust. Charge=$50) Month

Elect Power.3 levels of rates,increasing as you use more. Plus Delivery,Debt retirement charges,Regulatory.=$90 (2 months.)

kWh=$0.065
' =$0.075
' =$0.064

Cost in a 1000Sq Ft Semi detached house, per month.

Gas Heating & Water (winter) $85
Electric (winter)$100 Summer with A/c=$130.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I have a 1100 square foot house, I keep the heat at around 15C and bring it around 18-20C if I'm home excluding when I'm sleeping... basically, it's at 15C 90% of the time. 

With natural gas, bill is around 100 bucks per month or so with equal billing plan. last year I actually got a huge discount at the start of the heating season as I had overpaid previously. Same thing will probably happen this year. They basically waved like 3 bills in a row.

And wow at those icicles. Time to add more insulation in there.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm on even-pay, so every month's bill is the same. I pay $75 per month to the electric company, and $75 per month to the utility company (pays for gas, water, sewer, garbage). $150 per month for everything. Right now I have a $375 credit with the utility company & $275 credit with the electric company. 

My wife & I live in a 4400 sq ft 2-1/2 story brick house, built in 1928. Because our kids are grown, we have 3 of the 4 bedrooms closed off unless they're visiting. I've super-insulated and sealed everything, and we have a high efficiency furnace. However, we leave the thermostat set at 70 degrees (programmable thermostat saved us nothing, because of plaster walls). 


The bottom line is that I feel pretty darned good about our cost of heat & utilities.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

DrHicks said:


> I'm on even-pay, so every month's bill is the same. I pay $75 per month to the electric company, and $75 per month to the utility company (pays for gas, water, sewer, garbage). $150 per month for everything. Right now I have a $375 credit with the utility company & $275 credit with the electric company.
> 
> My wife & I live in a 4400 sq ft 2-1/2 story brick house, built in 1928. Because our kids are grown, we have 3 of the 4 bedrooms closed off unless they're visiting. I've super-insulated and sealed everything, and we have a high efficiency furnace. However, we leave the thermostat set at 70 degrees (programmable thermostat saved us nothing, because of plaster walls).
> 
> ...


If it wasn't for the tornadoes rolling through the state like clockwork, I might have retired there for the utility costs.
Ron


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> If it wasn't for the tornadoes rolling through the state like clockwork, I might have retired there for the utility costs.
> Ron


Hahaha! Yeah, that's the common perception.

Here's a weird deal though... I live up in NorthEast Omaha. It's is extremely hilly and rugged. It's also pretty close to the Missouri River. As a result, virtually all the really nasty thunderstorms actually kind of "jump" the river, and miss us. I can't begin to count how many times severe weather has nipped West Omaha, then jumped and touched down again about 10-15 miles into Iowa. We're left smiling.


And actually, our utility costs are fairly high (though not as high as NYC or the like). It's the paying attention to details that save us. For instance, I have a brother-in-law & his family living in a rental house. It's a nice 1500 sa ft, 3-bedroom split-level house that I've insulated heavily, and installed a high efficiency furnace, central ac, and water heater. 

Even so, they pay more than we do for all their utilities. I finally got tired of telling him to close the storm windows in the winter...


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

DrHicks said:


> Hahaha! Yeah, that's the common perception.
> 
> Here's a weird deal though... I live up in NorthEast Omaha. It's is extremely hilly and rugged. It's also pretty close to the Missouri River. As a result, virtually all the really nasty thunderstorms actually kind of "jump" the river, and miss us. I can't begin to count how many times severe weather has nipped West Omaha, then jumped and touched down again about 10-15 miles into Iowa. We're left smiling.
> 
> ...


You're beating a dead horse trying to enlighten a brother-in-law.
Ron


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> You're beating a dead horse trying to enlighten a brother-in-law.
> Ron


He's a musician. What can I say? Great guy, but much better at counter meters than money.


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## Sammy 2 (Feb 10, 2011)

Anyone have a good way/formula to compare natural gas heat to electric heat per btu or whatever is a fair comparison.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Sammy 2 said:


> Anyone have a good way/formula to compare natural gas heat to electric heat per btu or whatever is a fair comparison.


I'd be curious to see that too. Honestly though, I think there are just too many variable involved to make a good comparison.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> OK then, that certainly makes sense. I'd have to assume it originally was heated with wood due to it's age. Did it always have the thatch roof? Was it just something they had no other choice on years ago, and you just had to take the chance?


Thatch used to be the peasants method of roofing done with water reed or other crops. I suppose that just took their chances with a wood open fire inglenook, and re built the roof when it burnt down. Richer people usually had clay tiles or stone slates. Nowadays thatch is really expensive.


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

Sammy 2 said:


> Anyone have a good way/formula to compare natural gas heat to electric heat per btu or whatever is a fair comparison.


There are online calculators.

Here are basic formulae:
http://www.energykinetics.com/savingsHeatingFuelComparisons.shtml

Essentially there are only three variables. The first is your heat consumption in, the second is the fuel price per unit, and the third is the efficiency of your appliance.

My wood is free, so I don't worry about the other two.


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## Fisher (Nov 22, 2010)

New house
House 2800 sq ft
Garage 800 sq ft
Running geo under floor heat in the house and garage and geo forced air in the house
house set to 70 garage set to 65
Our elec. rate is .11 Kwh, last month was cold, -35 at night for about a week and many nights of -20 with day time highs from -10 to 10 above for most of the month. Our total elec bill was $340, plus my wife runs daycare out of our home. Typ bill in the summer is around $150 so we are heating for around $190/month, really happy with that. Our old house was 1660 sq ft heating with NG and was around $220 for the same month last year.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Red Squirrel said:


> And wow at those icicles. Time to add more insulation in there.


Iv'e got 4 inches between the joists(new builds regs is 12 inches)but 12 inches of thatch is said to be the same as 6 inches of fibreglass. 
I should put more in but the water tank and pipe work is up there and it's usefull for a bit of heat to get there and stop the pipework freezing, even though they are insulated. 
Whatever work you and jomama find for me on the house I will have an excuse not to do it. A lifetimes practice with a nagging wife has made me an expert.:laughing:


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## Sammy 2 (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks Fisher, what did the geo system cost you ??


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

stuart45 said:


> I paid 40 pence per litre for heating oil this year. Got single glazed windows and solid stone 2ft thick walls. It's hard to get the temperature up to 70f in the evening when it's below freezing outside.


That comes out to about $2.58 a gal for heating oil. That sounds reasonable compared to the gasoline prices there. How much is regular gas per liter?
Here the local #2 heating oil is over $3.00 a gal. Regular gas is $3.39 a gal.(about 85 cents a liter)
Ron
Regular gas is now $3.42
Heating oil is $3.74 a gallon(as per the paper today)


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

We filled the oil tank last spring/summer when it was $2.49 a gallon
Topped it off again in January @ $3.09 a gallon I think
We normally go thru one tank of oil a year, sometimes less
This year has been colder so we have gone thru 1 1/4 tanks
So per month Nov-March = $148 a month for this heating season


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Ron6519 said:


> That comes out to about $2.58 a gal for heating oil. That sounds reasonable compared to the gasoline prices there. How much is regular gas per liter?
> Here the local #2 heating oil is over $3.00 a gal. Regular gas is $3.39 a gal.(about 85 cents a liter)
> Ron


Road fuel is really expensive.
Diesel is £1.30p a litre
Petrol is £1.25 a litre


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## Fisher (Nov 22, 2010)

Total cost was $22000, and it is a closed loop system 5 ton underfloor and 3 ton forced air, with propane backup. 
After a $3400 credit with the elec company and $6600 tax credit it come out to $12000, same system installed with propane was $13000.
Thanks


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Fisher said:


> Total cost was $22000, and it is a closed loop system 5 ton underfloor and 3 ton forced air, with propane backup.
> After a $3400 credit with the elec company and $6600 tax credit it come out to $12000, same system installed with propane was $13000.
> Thanks


On the surface this may seem like a really stupid question, but do you feel that it was a good investment?

I don't think I could justify that kind of investment, based on potential return. I'm only spending about $600 per year for natural gas, so even if I cut my heat bills in half, I'd go many years before seeing a return on investment.


It does, though, seem as though you're in a very harsh climate. Where are you located?


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## Fisher (Nov 22, 2010)

We live in northern MN about 10 miles from the Canadian border, pretty much the coldest part of the nation. I feel it was a great investment. Heating bills for elec and or propane systems set up like ours are running around $500 to $1000 a month for a comparable home to ours.
thanks


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Fisher said:


> We live in northern MN about 10 miles from the Canadian border, pretty much the coldest part of the nation. I feel it was a great investment. Heating bills for elec and or propane systems set up like ours are running around $500 to $1000 a month for a comparable home to ours.
> thanks


Sounds like the payback for the system is a better deal then getting solar panels for electric generation. I think with incentives and rebate it would be about 20 years at the current electric prices. But projecting the inevitable price increases, probably sooner.
Ron


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

stuart45 said:


> Road fuel is really expensive.
> Diesel is £1.30p a litre
> Petrol is £1.25 a litre


That's a little over $8.00 a gallon for gasoline! No wonder there are so many subcompact cars there. We went to Italy in 2006 and gas was like $6.40 a gallon. Smart cars all over the place.
Currently gas is now $3.42 a gallon her in lower NY. The highest I've ever seen it.
Ron


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

Electricity is .15/KWh. That will go down to .14 next month as I've switched suppliers.

Fuel oil is a brutal $3.20/gal. I paid over $500 for a delivery this week. I have R30 and a radiant barrier in part of the attic, plus about 2/3 of the house sits at 61F most of the time and 1/3 at 68. However, it's 2300 sq ft so it still burned over 160 gallons of oil last month with the low temps. I'm probably going to have to roll back the radiant barrier and just lay down more insulation once I finish some new wiring, because any effective heating upgrades from my 84% boiler cost in the five figures.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Fisher said:


> We live in northern MN about 10 miles from the Canadian border, pretty much the coldest part of the nation. I feel it was a great investment. Heating bills for elec and or propane systems set up like ours are running around $500 to $1000 a month for a comparable home to ours.
> thanks


Gotcha! I wondered if you were talking Minnesota. We lived in Southern Minnesota for close to 20 years, and it was extremely harsh with the relentless wind.

So your payback sounds fantastic. Great to hear!


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## Fisher (Nov 22, 2010)

one big advantange I see so far, doesnt have anything to do with geo, but having a slab with in floor heat can also cut the costs. It has warmed to mid 20's to 30's the last week or so and the heat has only kicked on once for about 10 min. I really like that!

Southern MN and Northern MN - 2 different worlds for cold! But both suck!


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Fisher said:


> one big advantange I see so far, doesnt have anything to do with geo, but having a slab with in floor heat can also cut the costs. It has warmed to mid 20's to 30's the last week or so and the heat has only kicked on once for about 10 min. I really like that!
> 
> *Southern MN and Northern MN - 2 different worlds for cold! But both suck!*


You got that right!

Southern MN doesn't get as cold, but it's more humid and the danged wind is ALWAYS blowing!


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

DrHicks said:


> Gotcha! I wondered if you were talking Minnesota. We lived in Southern Minnesota for close to 20 years, and it was extremely harsh with the relentless wind.
> 
> So your payback sounds fantastic. Great to hear!


In PA, people can spend under $100 a month with a geothermal system. But first, you need to spend $10,000 to dig and $10,000 on the equipment. You can maybe halve it with tax breaks.


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## elementz (Jan 11, 2010)

I envy some of you guys with your heating bills. I am in New Brunswick with a 2200sq ft house (1100 x 2 floors). There are only 2 of us in the house and only heat a few rooms and our winter bills are $350-$400 (electric heat but also includes all other electricity, lights, appliances, etc)

Here is a breakdown of how my bill looks. This was for the month of December. 

Monthly Service Charge - $19.73
Charges for Electricity Used - $308.60 (3,133kwh x $9.85 cents)
Dusk to Dawn ligthing - $13.16
Water Heater Rental - $6.02
Taxes - $45.18

Grand Total = $392.69

Now in the summer months, I don't have A/C so the monthly bill is usually $120...sounds like my heat costs are through the roof. I think the main culprit would be my windows and possibly insulation. The house is 24 years old and the windows are the originals. On a cold windy day, I can definitely feel a slight draft coming through. I am not sure on the type of insulation that is between the walls.

I did install programmable thermostats about a couple of weeks ago but due to the gaps above...I am wondering if they will even make a difference. I notice that if the thermostat is reading 18 degrees and I bump it up to 21 degrees, the temp will only change another degree or so. I don't think the thermostats are faulty...I just think I am loosing heat.


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

You're still spending less than I am in a much colder zone with similar floor space. I think part of my problem is that my addition is only one story, so I have a lot of roof space to lose heat. If I had one big two (well, 2.5) story house, at least all the heat on the first floor would travel to the second floor before entering the attic and finally leaving the house.


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