# Water seeping in through block foundation



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The blocks are hollow and filling with water. The water can travel a long the wall in the cavities. The actual leak/crack could far away from where it is coming in. The only way to stop the water until you dig is to direct any water away from the foundation. Make sure all your gutters are clear and the spouts are directed away from the house.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

joed said:


> The blocks are hollow and filling with water. The water can travel a long the wall in the cavities. The actual leak/crack could far away from where it is coming in. The only way to stop the water until you dig is to direct any water away from the foundation. Make sure all your gutters are clear and the spouts are directed away from the house.


So the idea here is that there is a crack on the exterior of the wall allowing the water into the hollow portion of the block, which is then seeping into the basement? This rather than water just seeping in through from the exterior?

If that's the case, is it a possible solution to repair the crack if I can find it rather than waterproofing the entire exterior?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Unless you deal with the water repairing the crack will only be temporary. The water needs a place to go. You need to verify the weeping tiles are working properly.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

"I could see this if the hydrostatic pressure is high, however is this problem really that common?"
Problem is very common and requires very little hydrostatic pressure. Moisture vapor is the second source of mold food and will pass right through solid concrete with no cracks.

"The previous owners advised that they didn't have any water problems."
Did you really expect them to tell you?

Based on the fact that the basement was fully furnished and in great condition when I viewed the property prior to purchase, I tend to believe them.

I'm sorry, but new home buyers wear blinders, you needed to hire an independent inspector. Note the emphasis on independent. Long story and lots of threads here discussing the conflict of using a home inspector that does frequent business with the local real estate agencies.

Block foundations share any water or moisture that enters at one spot horizontally to all other blocks. There is no attempt when building to stop this. Thus your only real solution is an expensive waterproofing effort on the outside, not more tar, but a rubber membrane. Even with that moisture vapor will still follow the footing up into the walls. All surface water needs to be directed well away.

This time of year presents an additional problem with water in that the water table will sit on top of the frost just below the surface and be held against the foundation. Landscaping to slope the surface drainage and below surface drainage away is needed but difficult to achieve.

From the link below: "Keeping basements dry, comfortable and contaminant free is proving to be anything but simple."
https://buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-103-understanding-basements?full_view=1

Bud


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

joed said:


> Unless you deal with the water repairing the crack will only be temporary. The water needs a place to go. You need to verify the weeping tiles are working properly.


Fair enough. From what I gather, this year has been terrible for saturated soil. I need to looking into whether or not there are even weepers there.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Proper fix is as you stated in first post --- dig it up, down to footings, weeping tile, sump pump, proper waterproofing, fill it back up. Hopefully you have good access for digging from outside. Lots of companies around that this is all they do.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

SPS-1 said:


> Proper fix is as you stated in first post --- dig it up, down to footings, weeping tile, sump pump, proper waterproofing, fill it back up. Hopefully you have good access for digging from outside. Lots of companies around that this is all they do.


I have a sump pump already so I assume I do have weepers. Unfortunately the access isn't great. I have a large enclosed porch which will have to be removed to dig, driveway asphalt cut up, and then another balcony that will have to be removed. Good times! Gotta love purchasing a home 1 month before a major leak!


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Do you have any idea when the home was originally built Lemkie


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

ZTMAN said:


> Do you have any idea when the home was originally built Lemkie


To my knowledge, the original part was built sometime in the 50's, with the addition added in 1986.


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

Check your downspouts. Any landscape changes made to "improve" the house for sale might have shifted where the water is going when it rains.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I usually don't like commenting on these posts about basement water problems on the web, there's just too many variables involved when you can't explore it first hand. But, if you put a few pictures of the wall and sump crock up, it may help to come up with some temporary solutions.

In the meantime, I'd start removing everything off of the walls so you can get a better Idea what's going on.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

xypex is just about the only material that will stop interior wtr leaks but beware it won't stop wtr penetration of the exterior side of the blocks,,, btw, VERY unlikely it just started !

where's the sump & pump ? inside OR outside ? how do you define 'weepers' ? often said previously, waterproofing's done when the house's being blt,,, after that, its wtr leak management


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

There's an irony to basements, they only become a pain when we try to convert them to living space. Left as just a basement with the function of holding up our homes while protecting our utilities and providing access so we can maintain them they will last a life time or more.

Living underground requires a whole new set of skills.

Bud


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Soil here is like a sponge.
The clay really holds the water.
My sump pump has been running lately, so yes, the ground is soaked.

I doubt the addition drainage was done properly or it's full of clay soil now. Digging the outside is the only way.
Sorry for your pain. I've already had it done only to knock down my house a few years later. What a waste of money.

These guys did pretty good work: https://www.draincom.ca/


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> Soil here is like a sponge.
> The clay really holds the water.
> My sump pump has been running lately, so yes, the ground is soaked.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recommendation. Luckily the water has stopped at least for the moment. I’ll keep an eye on it until I can get the outside fixed.

Oddly, even with all the water, my sump pump hasn’t run at all. I suppose this further suggests that there’s a plug...


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

Lemkie said:


> Oddly, even with all the water, my sump pump hasn’t run at all. I suppose this further suggests that there’s a plug...


...or your pump is broken and that's why you're seeing water in the basement?


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yep, sounds like good chance its plugged. My mother has a vintage 1960 house with concrete blocks. Been through all this (including plugged tile).

But worth it to check sump pump is working.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Ground around the house is frozen solid and the heat coming off the block wall, as little as there might be, is thawing the ground around it, so the only place for the water to go is against the brick.
Until there is a path to the weeping tile, then the water will stop.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

NotYerUncleBob2 said:


> Lemkie said:
> 
> 
> > Oddly, even with all the water, my sump pump hasn’t run at all. I suppose this further suggests that there’s a plug...
> ...


No the pump works fine. I’ve tested it multiple times, and the water level in the pit is very low.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

SPS-1 said:


> Yep, sounds like good chance its plugged. My mother has a vintage 1960 house with concrete blocks. Been through all this (including plugged tile).
> 
> But worth it to check sump pump is working.


And the only way to unplug them is to dig them up? I’ve tested my pump and it works fine..


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

jlhaslip said:


> Ground around the house is frozen solid and the heat coming off the block wall, as little as there might be, is thawing the ground around it, so the only place for the water to go is against the brick.
> Until there is a path to the weeping tile, then the water will stop.


Yes my thoughts exactly. But how do I prevent this from happening again aside from digging it all up?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

One method is to drill down with an auger to the level of the weeping tile and then fill with washed rock so there is access to the weeping tile. This goes along great with a surface french drain system. 
Also, make sure the surface is sloped away from the building where possible.

The ultimate fix would be to dig out the perimeter and install a membrane like Blueskin, replace the weeping tile and drain rock, and possibly a dimple board for drainage.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Lemkie said:


> And the only way to unplug them is to dig them up? I’ve tested my pump and it works fine..


Got to dig at least one place to get the auger into the tile. But that pretty much presumes you know where the blockage is. (might be able to take good guess from where trees are, but could also be collapsed clay tile) In my case, did waterproofing and new perf drain tile around 3 sides of the house. Fourth side was concrete driveway that sloped away from house. But when they checked to see water flowed through that last old section, it was plugged. Augered it out, but already had access (was plant roots).


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

jlhaslip said:


> One method is to drill down with an auger to the level of the weeping tile and then fill with washed rock so there is access to the weeping tile. This goes along great with a surface french drain system.
> Also, make sure the surface is sloped away from the building where possible.
> 
> The ultimate fix would be to dig out the perimeter and install a membrane like Blueskin, replace the weeping tile and drain rock, and possibly a dimple board for drainage.


Thanks for the tip! That’s a great idea. I might look into this.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

SPS-1 said:


> Lemkie said:
> 
> 
> > And the only way to unplug them is to dig them up? I’ve tested my pump and it works fine..
> ...


Ah ok i think I understand. There’s no major trees nearby, but at least your information gives me a starting point as to what to try.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

You do have one access to the weeping tiles and that's thru the side of the sump pit.

If your house is old, there is no way to clean out the weepers if they're caked with clay. I'll assume you're close to me and have the same soil conditions.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

> Got to dig at least one place to get the auger into the tile.


You can access through the sum pit. Use a water jet and clean them if you find blockage. It may help some.

Another option they might help is to fill the blocks solid.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*i tell our clients God never intended man to live in the basement unless they 1st learned how to prepare the basement for living :wink2:
raining like **** here in atl today,,, $$$ cha CHING !!!
i'd love to know how to 'drill down' to a 'weeping tile' & fill it w/rock,,, you'd have better luck catching flying snipes at nite
unless you've mis-characterized the issue, you either live w/water vapor damp walls & a sub-floor water management system OR you dig outside & waterproof + include toe drain, sump, & exterior pump
i may be wrong but i don't think any of the responders do this work for a living or ever did,,, by now, you're probably realizing there's no silver bullet*


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## Wesman (Dec 20, 2017)

I live in the area and I know what you mean in regards to that massive flash thaw. When the ground is still frozen the water literally has no where to go. The ground cant absorb it.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

I don't work in the foundation business so take this for what it's worth. 
Just my limited experience. 

Cracks often start at basement window corners and travel down to the footing.
Start by inspecting around windows. Unfortunately this means removing drywall
etc on the inside or removing window well on outside. 

Weeping tile (poorly named IMO) back in the 50's, 60's was installed w/o a "sock"
allowing it to fill over time. Cleaning out the tile is short term fix as it'll fill again
with no sock. 

The movement of water within the wall is sometimes described with the champagne 
glass analogy.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

'weeping tile' should be defined as a 'toe drain',,, back in the day orangeburg pipe sections were use hence the incorrect term,,, sock's a relatively new item which appealsing to many as its cheaper than creating proper size trench,,, its also less expensive than buying & installing a roll of soil filter cloth,,, unfortunately the 'sock' allows silt to build up much closer to the evacuation pipe thereby creating more maintenance,,, maint is a nitemare unless cleanouts are installed as part of the system,,, we do this work for a living


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## Wesman (Dec 20, 2017)

Ive seen this situation before. And I really think before I started digging up weeping tiles on a house that has a finished basement thus proving it hasnt happened before, I would do one simple change . 

As stated, because in these flash thaws water will find it lowest path, make absolutely sure there is sufficient slope away from the house. You cant add more soil at this point but if you can find a low area around the house just improvise for the next thaw ....with boards

The idea is to make sure the thawing water drains away from the house in the first place


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> You do have one access to the weeping tiles and that's thru the side of the sump pit.
> 
> If your house is old, there is no way to clean out the weepers if they're caked with clay. I'll assume you're close to me and have the same soil conditions.


Yes I just thought of that as well. I might try Having them scoped from there first to see if that points me in the right direction.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

joed said:


> > Got to dig at least one place to get the auger into the tile.
> 
> 
> You can access through the sum pit. Use a water jet and clean them if you find blockage. It may help some.
> ...


I assume this would be done by drilling a hole in each cavity and injecting cement into them?


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Wesman said:


> I live in the area and I know what you mean in regards to that massive flash thaw. When the ground is still frozen the water literally has no where to go. The ground cant absorb it.


It’s been a hell of a winter weather wise that’s for sure!


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

CodeMatters said:


> I don't work in the foundation business so take this for what it's worth.
> Just my limited experience.
> 
> Cracks often start at basement window corners and travel down to the footing.
> ...


Drywall is already gone so that’s a non issue...

I’m not familiar with the chambagne glass analogy. What does that mean?


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Wesman said:


> Ive seen this situation before. And I really think before I started digging up weeping tiles on a house that has a finished basement thus proving it hasnt happened before, I would do one simple change .
> 
> As stated, because in these flash thaws water will find it lowest path, make absolutely sure there is sufficient slope away from the house. You cant add more soil at this point but if you can find a low area around the house just improvise for the next thaw ....with boards
> 
> The idea is to make sure the thawing water drains away from the house in the first place


I will certainly address any slope issues in the spring. I agree this will help however with the soil this saturated I don’t know that that would’ve avoided the problem. 

I agree it’s tempting to just try this and see if it happens again. Everything is opened up now so it wouldn’t damage anything anyway, however the problem is it could be years before the same situation replicated itself. I could try with a hose to see if water eventually seeps in, or hope for some torrential rain I suppose.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

Lemkie said:


> Drywall is already gone so that’s a non issue...
> 
> I’m not familiar with the chambagne glass analogy. What does that mean?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Yes you would need to drill a hole near the top and fill with a flowable grout mixture. Or you could do it in two steps. Drill half way and fill. Then plug the holes and fill again from the top.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

joed said:


> Yes you would need to drill a hole near the top and fill with a flowable grout mixture. Or you could do it in two steps. Drill half way and fill. Then plug the holes and fill again from the top.


Interesting. I didn’t think I could fill from the top down since the bricks are staggered and there’s mortar in between the blocks?


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## Wesman (Dec 20, 2017)

Go ahead and wait until spring to address any incorrect grade but if it were me I would do it before the next above zero temp. Its simply a matter of placing an object like a board or a few bricks placed on a slant so rain will drain AWAY...

The soil is not saturated yet..its frozen


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## Wesman (Dec 20, 2017)

I would say the brick is saturated and will take a while to dry out


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*we open 1 cell as low as possible, 1 @ midpoint, & 1 @ the top - all opened cells aligned vertically,,, IF the gawds are w/you, you can create a pocket into the foundation top,,, we then insert 3 #4 bars downward into the middle cell + 3 upward,,, we then pour in flowable grout to rejection & patch the middle opening w/fast setting cement,,, same thing w/top cell,,, to vibrate the 'pin' properly, we place a hammer drill against the cmu's,,, i have a sketch but its too large to post & i don't know how to resize
until the exterior is waterproofed, the wall will never dry out even using a dehumidifier as cold runs to heat & wet to dry (hiskool fiziks)*


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Wesman said:


> Go ahead and wait until spring to address any incorrect grade but if it were me I would do it before the next above zero temp. Its simply a matter of placing an object like a board or a few bricks placed on a slant so rain will drain AWAY...
> 
> The soil is not saturated yet..its frozen


Valid point. Setting something temporary up definitely wouldn’t be too hard. Illl get on that.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

stadry said:


> *we open 1 cell as low as possible, 1 @ midpoint, & 1 @ the top - all opened cells aligned vertically,,, IF the gawds are w/you, you can create a pocket into the foundation top,,, we then insert 3 #4 bars downward into the middle cell + 3 upward,,, we then pour in flowable grout to rejection & patch the middle opening w/fast setting cement,,, same thing w/top cell,,, to vibrate the 'pin' properly, we place a hammer drill against the cmu's,,, i have a sketch but its too large to post & i don't know how to resize
> until the exterior is waterproofed, the wall will never dry out even using a dehumidifier as cold runs to heat & wet to dry (hiskool fiziks)*


And you do this in every line of vertical bricks?


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Bud9051 said:


> "I could see this if the hydrostatic pressure is high, however is this problem really that common?"
> Problem is very common and requires very little hydrostatic pressure. Moisture vapor is the second source of mold food and will pass right through solid concrete with no cracks.
> 
> "The previous owners advised that they didn't have any water problems."
> ...


Sorry Bud I missed your message when you posted it. I'm curious, how does a horizontal line of bricks share the water or moisture? Does the water seep through from one cavity to it's adjoining one all the way across?

I agree a rubber membrane such as Blue Skin is the way to go. I don't think there's any way around that.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

NotYerUncleBob2 said:


> Check your downspouts. Any landscape changes made to "improve" the house for sale might have shifted where the water is going when it rains.


Thanks will do!


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> I usually don't like commenting on these posts about basement water problems on the web, there's just too many variables involved when you can't explore it first hand. But, if you put a few pictures of the wall and sump crock up, it may help to come up with some temporary solutions.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd start removing everything off of the walls so you can get a better Idea what's going on.


I missed your reply when you posted it. The problem wall is back to frame now so it's entirely visible. It's dried completely now as the temperatures are much colder. I figure this is either stopping any additional water or whatever water was in the problem area is now drained. At least with it completely dry, I'll be able to see exactly where the water penetration actually starts. 

I've got some pictures at home. I'll post them up later today if you think it might help.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

stadry said:


> xypex is just about the only material that will stop interior wtr leaks but beware it won't stop wtr penetration of the exterior side of the blocks,,, btw, VERY unlikely it just started !
> 
> where's the sump & pump ? inside OR outside ? how do you define 'weepers' ? often said previously, waterproofing's done when the house's being blt,,, after that, its wtr leak management


The sump pump is inside the home, in the older portion, in the utility room. I have no idea what kind of weepers I have. I'm hoping that scoping the pipe to the sump pit will help determine this.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Bud9051 said:


> There's an irony to basements, they only become a pain when we try to convert them to living space. Left as just a basement with the function of holding up our homes while protecting our utilities and providing access so we can maintain them they will last a life time or more.
> 
> Living underground requires a whole new set of skills.
> 
> Bud


I couldn't agree more, however this home is only a 1 bedroom, with an extra one in the basement along with the living room which I was hoping to convert to a third bedroom at one point in time. The basement living space is pretty much necessary in this home, along with the hefty repair costs at this point!


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

> I'm curious, how does a horizontal line of bricks share the water or moisture? Does the water seep through from one cavity to it's adjoining one all the way across?


Yes. They call it the champagne glass effect.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

i don't know if that's the best example of the champagne effect but consider, instead, a pile of sand,,, note the leak would be ascribed to the top of the cone & the width would represent the spread of leaking water as it filters down thru all the blocks

we usually find 4' o/c spacing is sufficient to stabilize an imploding wall


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## Wesman (Dec 20, 2017)

The same weather scenario is back for a few days of intense rain and melting snow. I was just outside and noticed the pavers at the back of the house were heaved and sloping slightly to my house. And a big old puddle. I already knew that meant water in the basement where Ive never had it before.

I'm confident it was because of the grade towards the house and I will not be digging up the weepers. All i'm going to do to correct the problem immediately is clear away any puddles and make sure when the frost is out that I get a sufficient slope for next winter.

If you feel better tearing up your yard and repairing non faulty weepers...just make sure you still put in a sufficient grade because if you dont you WILL leak again


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*by the time we get a call about a wet bsmnt, its very likely the wtr's been collecting down at the cove ( footer/wall junction ) since the house was backfill'd,,, no bldg code calls for wtrproofing to my knowledge,,, in 10-15% of our work, we'l excavate & begin anew,,, i have yet to see anyone's existing toe drain ( misnamed ' weepers ' ) not be silt-clogged OR incorrectly installed,,, keep in mind that's only over a period of 30-35yrs,,, ymmv*


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The wall was likely cover with damp proofing. If anyone digs up to repair drain you would do the home work and water proof the wall. Yes water proof or add a drainage plane.


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## alexlacelle (Feb 27, 2012)

Wesman said:


> The same weather scenario is back for a few days of intense rain and melting snow. I was just outside and noticed the pavers at the back of the house were heaved and sloping slightly to my house. And a big old puddle. I already knew that meant water in the basement where Ive never had it before.
> 
> I'm confident it was because of the grade towards the house and I will not be digging up the weepers. All i'm going to do to correct the problem immediately is clear away any puddles and make sure when the frost is out that I get a sufficient slope for next winter.
> 
> If you feel better tearing up your yard and repairing non faulty weepers...just make sure you still put in a sufficient grade because if you dont you WILL leak again


The problematic weather is surely back. I did find an eaves that was plugged with ice last week. This was causing quite a bit of water to accumulate near the foundation. I cleared the blockage and that helped minimize the water entering the basement. I do have a grading issue on a part of my driveway (it seems to have sunk over time). I will have to cut this out and fix the grading. Luckily, at this point, there's no further risk of damage in the basement. I'll be cutting up the asphalt soon enough to fix the slope soon enough.


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