# Install window inserts or full frame replacements



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

To be honest, between the storm sash and the window, a narrow framed insert will actually feel and appear larger (in terms of glass) than what you have. 

If you look out the window, just off of perpendicular to the sash, you see quite a bit of storm window frame. 

A full tear out is certainly and option but will be, as you noted, quite a bit more expensive. 

Inserts would work just fine there. Looks like she has a good drip cap above them already.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

+1 to WoW's comments... I'd also add another option to drastically increase the window/glass size without doing a full tear out would be to remove only those mulls. That would probably gain you 12" or so on width, and wouldn't require touching that stucco.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

So would I tear out the mulls, then put a 2x4 in each area for the new window to attach to? The outside molding and exterior sheathing would have to be cut as well?
I was looking into the Marvin integrity insert line, hopefully this will work and look okay?


----------



## shaftmaster (Mar 30, 2015)

What are you trying to gain by replacing these windows? Larger glass area? Better energy efficiency?

I have 16 old double hung windows in my home and have decided to restore them and add wood storm windows instead of replacing them. Two of the original windows had cheap single pane aluminum sash inserts installed by a previous owner. I removed one of these and replaced it with a Pella double pane wood insert, but for the other I'm planning to have replacement sashes built and installed in the old frame.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

I don't want to lose anymore glass area with the inserts, so I was told of modifying the opening. These windows do let in a lot of cold air, so the energy savings would be nice.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

HomeSealed said:


> +1 to WoW's comments... I'd also add another option to drastically increase the window/glass size without doing a full tear out would be to remove only those mulls. That would probably gain you 12" or so on width, and wouldn't require touching that stucco.


So do I put a 2x4 in and attach window that way. Do you have any suggestions on how I go about this?


----------



## halliwellc (Sep 13, 2012)

Do as shaft master is doing. Restore and upgrade your original wood sashes. Google for details on all the reasons why it's better. Bob Yapp travels around and does workshops for homeowners, check it out.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

saxsquad29 said:


> I don't want to lose anymore glass area with the inserts, so I was told of modifying the opening. These windows do let in a lot of cold air, so the energy savings would be nice.


As I stated previously, removal of the storm sash with a replacement window, will make the window feel larger. That is the overwhelming feedback that we get from our clients when they have a single pane wood with storm window combination.

If you use a narrow profile replacement, while the net glass size may be slightly smaller, the opening will appear larger and actually let in more light in some cases. 



saxsquad29 said:


> So do I put a 2x4 in and attach window that way. Do you have any suggestions on how I go about this?


A 2x4 is an option but not required if the windows are sturdy and mulled together properly. 



halliwellc said:


> Do as shaft master is doing. Restore and upgrade your original wood sashes. Google for details on all the reasons why it's better. Bob Yapp travels around and does workshops for homeowners, check it out.


I am a big fan of restoration when warranted. If the windows are historic or otherwise worthy of preservation. I am not sure that is the case here and restoration is not for everyone. 

Many folks don't like storm windows and the look that they give. They will be a necessity in any single pane application.


----------



## Centex2011 (Dec 14, 2011)

Have you thought about sash replacements? I have used these and they work great and you don't have to give up valuable viewing area like with inserts. Basically you keep your original frame (assuming it is in good shape) and just remove the old sashes and replace them with new, less drafty sashes. It looks like you have rope and weights so you would have a little extra work removing the weights and sealing that hole up. The kits (at least from the company I use) comes with everything you need- sashes, channels, hardware, etc. They pretty easy to install, even by yourself.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Windows on Wash said:


> As I stated previously, removal of the storm sash with a replacement window, will make the window feel larger. That is the overwhelming feedback that we get from our clients when they have a single pane wood with storm window combination.
> 
> If you use a narrow profile replacement, while the net glass size may be slightly smaller, the opening will appear larger and actually let in more light in some cases.
> 
> ...


I know this post was a while ago but I got side tracked with other projects.

Would I be able to tear out these mullions and get a window insert with 3 double hungs factory mulled?


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

And wouldn't I need storm windows in my kind of climate. Brutal cold/wet winters. With only a screen between the new double hung and the elements that doesn't seem like a lot of protection for the window and moisture getting in


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

saxsquad29 said:


> I don't want to lose anymore glass area with the inserts, so I was told of modifying the opening. These windows do let in a lot of cold air, so the energy savings would be nice.


Do these windows have sash weights? If they do, you have openings on the side s of each window. Eliminating this space or filling it with insulation will cut down on the drafts.
These window opening can be framed two ways. Having the header across all the windows allowing you to open the whole area and put in whatever window configuration you want.
Or
The opening is three individual structures and your limited to the space between the framing.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Ron6519 said:


> Do these windows have sash weights? If they do, you have openings on the side s of each window. Eliminating this space or filling it with insulation will cut down on the drafts.
> These window opening can be framed two ways. Having the header across all the windows allowing you to open the whole area and put in whatever window configuration you want.
> Or
> The opening is three individual structures and your limited to the space between the framing.


Would I be able to put in a custom 3 double hung factory mulled insert into the existing frame? Is this going to look okay from the outside


----------



## jimn (Nov 13, 2010)

My entire house has replacement double hung windows with mullions between the panes. Rhys look fine from the outside and ok from the inside but I never have to paint them and washing windows is a whole quicker


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

You can tear out the mullions as long as there is no structure between them. 

We cognizant that sometimes, things that were not intended as structure are functioning as such.


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Pull some of the black paper? you installed where the interior trim was, you can see the trimmer studs- if extend up into three different headers or stop under one big (long) header. If that is the roof rake overhang look-out in picture near corner- one story with attic space above windows? If so, go in attic to check if gable-end rafters are one piece (each side), then single 2x header is good to 8' span over windows. You could still add gable end stud diagonal bracing in attic to reduce loads on window.

Gary


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Okay, I think I will be going with full replacement windows, ripping old window down to studs. I first just want some feedback on my process. 
For my new window I am measuring frame of the old window. On either side of the frame are pockets where the weights are. So the frame isn't directly attached to the studs because there is no stud there. Each trimmer stud is another 2" out from the frame. Would I be able to just add another trimmer stud so that the new window will fit like the old. I don't want to go any bigger than what I have. I am trying to keep them the same size so as not to disturb my stucco exterior


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

So would I be able to add trimmer studs at the side pockets for the new window to attach?


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You need some filler to take the place of the missing pockets if the windows are to set tight next to the jamb trims on exterior. Use as much/little as need in the field area to separate the units for design/looks.

Gary


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Gary in WA said:


> You need some filler to take the place of the missing pockets if the windows are to set tight next to the jamb trims on exterior. Use as much/little as need in the field area to separate the units for design/looks.
> 
> Gary


But I will be ordering a single 3 double hung unit with factory mulls. I want to make sure I order the right width so that the exterior trim will cover the frame and I don't have to change the trim


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Taking off the exterior siding- does anyone have any tips on how to do this without damaging the stucco


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Cut the joint between the stucco and the wood. Usually an angle grinder with a masonry blade.


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

What about measuring jamb depth here? I want to make sure that I measure for the appropriate size jamb extensions. I am measuring from the exterior stop to the drywall, but depth is different in every spot


----------



## saxsquad29 (Mar 29, 2015)

Windows on Wash said:


> Cut the joint between the stucco and the wood. Usually an angle grinder with a masonry blade.


So how are my old windows attached to the exterior sheathing? It's not attached to the trimmer studs, that's for sure. It looks like my current windows have a "wooden fin" all the way around that is nailed in. Is that what you typically find in the older homes? If this is the case then that will factor in to my jamb depth


----------

