# Installing bathroom sink - drains off slightly less than pipe diameter



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm installing a bathroom sink. It's into the corner as far as it can go and the sink drain is slightly off from the trap (see picture).

In theory, I should be able to twist the pipe coming out of the floor. In practice, I haven't been able to do that. The pipe is in the floor really solid (no give whatsoever) and the nut (connecting the pipe coming out of the floor to the pipe below the floor) seems to be pretty well corroded on. I've tried some pressure but am afraid of breaking the pipe, etc. 

Any tricks to deal with the nut being corroded onto the (steel I think) pipe?

(A slightly wider diameter p-trap would solve my problem but I stopped by a (wholesale) plumbing supply outlet and they told me they don't exist. By "wider diameter" I mean the diameter of the arc of the P - not the diameter of the hole the pipe forms.)

Nothing is ever easy. 

The good thing is nothing is attached to anything yet so I can move the sink & vanity away to get good access to the pipes.


----------



## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

i would cut the down pipe headed to the floor , get a proper size furnco coupling rotate pipe and tighten furnco


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

I've applied Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil (spray can); after 5 minutes, including tapping, still no progress. I kept reapplying; at least some seemed to be soaking down into the threads. Was able to get below the nut & spray; not sure whether any will work its way up. Will let set awhile & try some more.



tpolk said:


> i would cut the down pipe headed to the floor , get a proper size furnco coupling rotate pipe and tighten furnco


Thanks; I might have to do that but am hoping I won't. The wholesale plumbing supply guy thought the issue of length of the drain wasn't a big problem to deal with; it's plastic & I can always cut it and get an extender to meet up with the trap - once I figure out a way to get the trap oriented directly under the drain.


----------



## Gladerunner (Mar 9, 2010)

heat might help on bottom nut. Make sure wrench is square on nut. Do you have enough of the pipe below nut to hold back, so that you can put more pressure on nut? Also can try to cut nut off with hacksaw. sometimes the real hard to move nuts are white metal, if this is the case you can just melt the whole nut with a torch. picture of nut and pipe would help


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

just a guy said:


> heat might help on bottom nut. Make sure wrench is square on nut. Do you have enough of the pipe below nut to hold back, so that you can put more pressure on nut? Also can try to cut nut off with hacksaw. sometimes the real hard to move nuts are white metal, if this is the case you can just melt the whole nut with a torch. picture of nut and pipe would help


Thanks for the advice. I tried uploading pic of nut & pipe but it wouldn't upload. - turns out it was too large; I've managed to reduce the file size.
Here's the requested picture. I can (and have) removed the white fake tile floor you see in the picture, but that's only about 1/4" thick.
Not enough pipe below nut to hold back and, as I said, the pipe in the floor is in there solid (no lifting it up, for example). I will try heat if Liquid Wrench does not work by tomorrow morning - only in a day or so - the liquid wrench says it is flammable.

I've also tried using the "hook" on the top of the pipe coming out of the floor to try to twist the pipe to where I need it to be - no go. I was fairly careful as I don't want to break off that pipe!


----------



## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

thats why if you cut the pipe that wont move in the vertical part you can put the furnco on move the trap to get you fit and tighten the furnco


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

tpolk said:


> thats why if you cut the pipe that wont move in the vertical part you can put the furnco on move the trap to get you fit and tighten the furnco


I might have to. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this; I don't have a cutter and have no idea what a furnco is - not that those are insurmountable problems. If I can do this without cutting, there's one less potential leak point.

This Old House mentions trying vinegar if it looks like lime- which it could very well be as the water here is hard. Anyone know if Liquid Wrench will get through the lime?

On edit: just tried again and still no go. Will keep trying but if by morning it's not working, will try the heat approach. If that doesn't work, I'll probably opt for a plumber - which can wait until my bathtub in the other bathroom arrives!


----------



## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

sometimes a spray can of carbarator cleaner will cut thru stuff others wont


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

tpolk said:


> sometimes a spray can of carbarator cleaner will cut thru stuff others wont


Thanks - you might like this site: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1433151
(ATF-Acetone mix is also very good!)


----------



## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

why not use a slip-joint union on the riser from the floor? Cut the riser, insert the union, and the top half should rotate enough to close the gap. Looks like lime buildup; maybe limeaway? I don't think you can keep enough vinegar on the joint long enough for its weak acidic effect to do much.


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

bob22 said:


> why not use a slip-joint union on the riser from the floor? Cut the riser, insert the union, and the top half should rotate enough to close the gap. Looks like lime buildup; maybe limeaway? I don't think you can keep enough vinegar on the joint long enough for its weak acidic effect to do much.


Thanks for the feedback. I'm still hoping for a miracle but if not ... (the visible lime deposit was pretty much eaten away by the Liquid Wrench)
So I'd use something like this? (see picture)
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/tubularparts.html
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/slipjoint-union-straight-chrome.jpg

That would gain me some of the distance I need to somehow close the vertical gap between the drain and the trap. How difficult is it to cut the riser? (Do I just buy one of the things that cut around the pipe? I'm thinking my pipes may be brass - at least, the nut I've been trying to loosen looks like it's brass under the chrome - or are the pipes themselves not brass?

I'm not going to be be able to thread the pipe (no tools). I'm assuming I'd have to thread the pipe to use that coupling? If yes, I guess it would be either (a) that fernco coupling (mentioned above) or (b) call a plumber?

The do-it-yourself stuff is not too bad, once you've solved all the headaches which prevent you from doing anything!


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

What if I attached 2 45 degree elbows to the riser (where it currently attaches to the trap), then attach the trap? I think that would allow me to maneuver the trap to align with the drain. It would move the trap further away from the drain, but I guess I can get a drain extender.

I found this on another site: Both PVC and metal drains can be adjusted. Waste drain fittings are available in PVC and metal, and come in several angles, most commonly 45 and 90 degrees. When you place two 45-degree elbows together, you can maneuver them to make a wide range of angles.


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

Any opinion on this Flexible QuikTrap from Fernco (I'm so rural there are no inspectors):
http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/residential-plumbing/flexible-qwik-traps

Can I hook up a PVC product to the metal riser (chrome plated; not sure what the riser is made of but some metal - it looks pretty standard)? I assume I can but thought I'd ask.


----------



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

It's ugly but it will work. Just push the trap nut on the stand pipe (riser) out of the way.


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

A little more info. for anyone facing a similar problem:
from http://www.homerepairworkshop.com/?welcome/index/plumbing/flexible-trap-helps-clear-sink-clogs/03-02
*If you are replacing a bathroom or kitchen sink* and your existing drain tail pipe ( often called a tailpiece) is either brass tubing or rigid PVC, here is a trap that not only prevents sewer gas and vermin from working its way up through the drain line and sink -- the function of all traps--but is flexible enough so it can be twisted or stretched slightly if the drain components are out of line. However, because the trap has the flexibility of a rubber glove, when the sink is stopped up you can reach under and squeeze the trap so the clog will be pushed along. No plunger needed. And if you have a vacation home in the colder northern climate where freezing does occur, because of the flexibility there is no need to pour anti freeze in the drain for winter protection. When the trap water freezes and expands so will the trap. No damage either.
Molded from flexible PVC plastic, two stainless steel clamps help make a leak proof connection to the tail pipe and the horizontal waste arm that leads to the drain-waste-vent line. Since the tail pipe of most sinks is either 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch tubing, this trap is molded to fit a 1 1/4 inch tail pipe. But if your tail pipe is 1 1/2 inch--typical for kitchen sinks--merely snip off the end to accommodate the larger tail pipe.
Installation is real easy. First, place a pan under the old trap to collect any water than may spill while the trap is being removed (Figure 1).
Then unscrew the jam nuts ( often referred to as slip nuts) as illustrated in Figure 2. You can slide off the jam nut and washer from the tail pipe but the jam nut on the horizontal arm cannot be pulled off because the end that attaches to the trap is flared. Of course, you can remove the jam nut by removing the entire arm but an easier technique is to slide the jam nut up so it is close to the wall.
Discard the old trap and position the new flexible trap as illustrated in Figure 3 . Let the clamps hang, and when both ends of the trap are connected slide the clamps up as illustrated in Figure 4 and tighten. Called Qwik Trap and manufactured buy Fernco, the trap is available from most home centers and plumbing supply houses.


----------



## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/slipjoint-union-straight-chrome.jpg
Just cut the pipe; hacksaw should do it; try to keep the cut straight.


----------



## lazzlazz (Mar 29, 2010)

The Fernco Flexible trap seems to be working. It does say on the package it is safe to use with typical bathroom chemicals. I don't use chemicals, however (package also says most stoppages within the trap can be solved simply by squeezing the trap, although I'd remove trap & clean out rather than risk simply pushing the problem further downstream). At $4/trap (plus $4.50 shipping), you could easily replace this thing every 10 years if you were nervous about any potential for leaks. The biggest danger, I think, is pushing things in the vanity underneath up against the trap & causing some kind of problem.


----------



## O'Leaky (May 19, 2010)

Nothing like an S-trap to give you that warm fuzzy feeling.


----------

