# Basement finishing



## smallcrpt (Jan 15, 2007)

I believe I'm getting the go-ahead from my wife to start finishing the basement. The area I'm going to finish is about 15x30. The whole basement has a trench drain around the perimeter and we only had water once, but I think it was from the crappy jelouis(sp?) window. 
So with this trench I'm going to have to keep off the wall
Do I have to seal the block wall before I start? 
When attaching furing strips it is better to use glue or one of those nailers?
Is there any good articles or faq's about DIY basement finising?
Also on the flooring aspect of it, if I do a pergo or laminate flooring, what should I use to cover the floor in case of water?
Any other suggestions would be sweet
BTW in one of the walls' i plan on putting in a wall of fish tanks w. the filters and stuff hidden into my work shop
TIA-chris


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## timthetoolman (Oct 5, 2007)

If you have noticed water before, i think your best bet would be to seal the walls prior finishing them. If it were my house i would, this small effort and cost could save ya headaches in the long run. 
If you are putting up paneling on the walls, glue on furring strips would probably be sufficient. If you are using drywall, i would definately rent a 22 nail gun and nail the furring strips to support the weight. 
When i finish basements i usually recommend using green board (weather resistant drywall, which goes up the same) on the lower half of the walls. It comes as very little extra cost, and again if you ever have water problems, you don't also have problems with the paper peeling off the drywall!!!


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

smallcrpt said:


> I believe I'm getting the go-ahead from my wife to start finishing the basement. The area I'm going to finish is about 15x30. The whole basement has a trench drain around the perimeter and we only had water once, but I think it was from the crappy jelouis(sp?) window.
> So with this trench I'm going to have to keep off the wall
> Do I have to seal the block wall before I start?


If you had a french drain installed, it should do it's job. If it includes a pump, keep it serviced and checked periodically.
Block walls tend to absorb a high level of moisture. I would suggest sealing the wall.



smallcrpt said:


> When attaching furing strips it is better to use glue or one of those nailers?


If you can get away with creating new walls that are actually in-front-of your masonry walls, leaving 1" -2" of space, you will create an area to allow moist air to flow and not be trapped - I always suggest this when possible. 
If you feel that you must have that extra space, and need to attach furring strips onto the masonry walls: you have a few options. I would suggest that you use a construction adhesive with all your options. You could use tapcon masonry screws or a .22 caliber powder actuated fastener with washered fasteners.



smallcrpt said:


> Is there any good articles or faq's about DIY basement finising?


Yes, there are many available online:

http://www.doityourself.com/scat/basementremodeling

http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=17480

http://homeenvy.com/db/3/163.html

... or in instructional-picture-book format:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idio...top_3/102-6245225-6412114/102-6245225-6412114

http://www.basements101.com/training.html



smallcrpt said:


> Also on the flooring aspect of it, if I do a pergo or laminate flooring, what should I use to cover the floor in case of water?


I would suggest you:

a.) Consider another choice of flooring material, if you have a high level of moisture present in your basement, or if you feel that your past moisture issues have not been fully corrected.

b.) All laminate flooring manufactures state that it is best to use a moisture meter to test your sublayer/substrate (concrete floor) prior to installing any laminate flooring products. There is a minimum % of moisture that should not be acceded.
EXAMPLE from Pergo Installation Instructions: 

_"MOISTURE TEST:_
_A moisture test is recommended on all concrete_
_subfloors and wood subfloors constructed over a_
_crawl space or basement. Maximum acceptable_
_moisture reading for wood subfloors is 14%. Maximum_
_acceptable moisture reading for concrete subfloors_
_is 4.5% or a moisture vapor emission rate of __5lbs/1000sq. ft/24 hrs." - _- From http://www.pergo.com/images/pdfs/Install_Essentials.pdf​



c.) What should you use under your Laminate Flooring (Between the concrete and the Floor itself)? Answer: 

_"If the laminate flooring is going to be installed on a concrete slab floor where there is earth below the concrete, a vapor barrier must be placed between the concrete and the laminate. The seams should be taped with a moisture resistant tape. Laminate flooring should not be installed on any floor that has a drain." -_ From: http://ezinearticles.com/?Installing-Laminate-Flooring---Dos-and-Donts!&id=307282

Also - Read up on the basics of Installing Laminate Flooring:

http://www.pergo.com/images/pdfs/Install_Essentials.pdf

http://www2.dupont.com/Laminate_Flooring/en_US/applications/installation.html

Good Luck.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

timthetoolman said:


> ...When i finish basements i usually recommend using green board (weather resistant drywall, which goes up the same) on the lower half of the walls. It comes as very little extra cost, and again if you ever have water problems, you don't also have problems with the paper peeling off the drywall!!!


I am sorry Tim, IMHO - I would have to disagree with recommending Moisture Resistant sheetrock (A.K.A - M.R. Board/ Green Board)...simply because there are far superior products available on the market now.

Green Board first came out in the 60's. We used it alot in the 80's and 90's in bathrooms. Essentially, it is a wax-coated sheetrock, that contains a gypsum core that claims to be "treated" with a moisture resistant compound. The product was originally designed to be used in commercial environments with high amounts of "moist air"....but not moist environments or environments that can/may potentially get wet.

- There are bathrooms all over the US that have crumbling walls. We just repaired 6 shower walls at one apt. complex due to rotted green board. When green board gets wet, it will rot just like standard sheetrock.

In all the basements that we repair or remodel, we install Pressure Treated Lumber wall plates. Ridgid foam board insulation on the bottom 12" of all wall cavities/or all wall cavities. Last, we prefer to install "Densarmor" on the lower portion of the walls and "XP" board on all other upper areas/or Densarmor everywhere.
Consider using these new products that are rated as "Mold and Mildew" resistant (densarmor and/or XP-board):

http://www.nationalgypsum.com/products/product69.aspx

http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=4659

Whether you have high levels of moisture in your basement or not, all it takes is a burst plumbing line, sudden minor flood, backed up ejection or sump pump, failed hot water storage tank/valve/line, etc....and you will have sudden water in your basement. You will be glad that you finished it with high-rated moisture and mold resistant materials.
There are now some towns, where the inspectors are suggesting that this be done for a basement repair issue (we ran into this in Wilmington, MA last year). Many Insurance companies are detailing that similar guidelines be followed for basement repairs as well (Job we did in Westford, MA last year).


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## localtradesman (Oct 27, 2007)

Don't use a 22 cal. ramset on block walls....They do not always hold and they usually crack or split the firring strips. I always drill and screw concrete screws


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

localtradesman said:


> Don't use a 22 cal. ramset on block walls....They do not always hold and they usually crack or split the firring strips. I always drill and screw concrete screws


Absolutely....a drop of epoxy or Heavy duty construction adhesive on the screw is also a good anchoring measure...


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## timthetoolman (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks for the advice there atlantic. No seriously, i guess i kinda misconstrued that info in my head there. So really greenboard has no advantages in basements? Garages? I will check into using these other materials! Thanks again!


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## smallcrpt (Jan 15, 2007)

*ok*

i just talked to a guy who finished his basement w/ the 22 cal hammer. But I dont think drilling into the wall and furring strip is that big a deal. How many screws / strip would suffice?
Also what insulation is the best? the pink foam?
He also said he drywalled the ceiling, but I'm still thinking a drop ceiling just because most of my electrical and plumbin for the rest of the house is in there, so if i have remodeling or anyting i dont wanna have more work than i already have. 
-chris


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## simon (Oct 8, 2007)

AtlanticWBConst:

I am also starting a basement remodel.
What is the cost differential between the XP and/or Densarmor and regular drywall?
Also, is it recommended to keep the board off of the concrete floor when installing?
My basement is already studded out but it is currently paneled, which I am going to replace. I have yet to take the paneling out to see if there is any insulation behind it. What is the purpose of the rigid foam insulation?

Thanks.


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## perpetual98 (Nov 2, 2007)

Tagging along! Starting my own basement remodel soon.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

simon said:


> AtlanticWBConst:
> 
> I am also starting a basement remodel.
> What is the cost differential between the XP and/or Densarmor and regular drywall?
> ...


Last time I checked the Densarmor wasn't much more than regular sheetrock, the downside is that because it is a "Paperless Sheetrock", it is held together by fine thread of meshed fiberglass threads and required skim-coating the surface with compound. This is actually not that big of a deal, even for the DIYer. I think the pricing was around $3.00 more per 8 foot sheet. That was about 6 months ago.

XP board was ranging about $5.00 more per 12 foot sheet over standard sheetrock. Again, please check the current pricing for yourself.

Simply make some calls to your local suppliers or stop by your local Home Improvement store and compare. I believe that both products are now being carried by the major retailers now.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

perpetual98 said:


> Tagging along! Starting my own basement remodel soon.


Good Luck, Hope there is alot of helpful and motivational information here for you.


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## smallcrpt (Jan 15, 2007)

*xp board*

do you have to also skim coat the xp board? i'm starting to get excited about the basement, just need to finish the kitchen painting, get the hot tub up and running, rake leaves, fix outdoor lights, clean fish tanks, ... .. ... .. and so on..
but those aren't to big a deal
=-thanks a lot so far..
-chris


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

smallcrpt said:


> do you have to also skim coat the xp board? ....-chris


Coating is the same as standard sheetrock coating.

Good Luck.


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## hubbard53 (Nov 7, 2007)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Good Luck, Hope there is alot of helpful and motivational information here for you.


i completed my basement remodel about aa year ago... I used standard drywall but only have it on one block wall. I've never had water and should never have water an due to the builder putting stairs on the front, furnace in teh middle, sump in one corner, and water line in the other corner, i had to be creative and make "walking spaces" between the block walls and drywall walls. The walk space where the sump is became a nice pantry 

Only thing I can say abotu a basement remodel is 'be creative'. there are tons of things to build around, incorporate, etc. Just be creative in how you handle them.


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## RemodelMan (Oct 7, 2007)

*Advanced Basement Preparation 101*

Test both the walls and the floors with a simple, tried and true method.
Duct tape the edges of a sheet of plastic wrap to the floor and any suspicious wall areas preferably before it rains. Let sit for about 36 hours. Notice if there is condensation.
If so; make a point of _extending your downspouts _ at least ten feet away from the house.
_Add more dirt_ around the perimeter of the house, preferably to create a slope away from the foundation.
Check that window wells are able to repel rain and caulked along the sides.
*
Look for Molds & Mildew*. Mold is the #1 concern in the new home construction industry and the old home remodeling. It comes in many forms and colors and attaches itself to surfaces like carpets, rotting lumber, latex painted walls, old curtains/drapes and especially dark & damp places. The airborne spores are typically invisible and remarkably harmfull as well. Use a shop vac when ever possible instead of sweeping up the dust. Then remove and dispose of the vac filters out doors using a seperate plastic bag to contain it.
*The Black mold i*s the worst of the _toxic fungis_.
Wear a good quality mask and goggels and gloves before dealing with this seriously problematic s__t!
It has been linked to many forms of personality disorders, asthma, mood- swings, depression, and even some forms of cancer. Need I say more?
Mold is the #1 issue pertaining to new home construction and old home remodeling. law suits are cropping up due to neglectful consideration of proper ventilation in the new homes. Which are typically too air tight.
In a nutshell, the emphasis has been on conserving energy while overlooking fresh air recirculation throughout the home.

Here is how we deal with this "stuff", once you have taken the recomended steps to reroute the water on the outside. If the steps have not made much of a difference in the water seeping indoors, you will need to consider either digging a french drain along the exterior and rerouting to a catch basin or have a basement baseboard waterproofing/drainage system installed.
Otherwise, you can continue eradicating molds by the following:
Wash and or scrub any suspicious wall(s) with a mixture of 1 part chlorine bleach to 4 parts water. Mop up the remaining watery mess on the floor.
Let this solution dry on the wall without rinsing.
Repeat the same to the floor if it is also showing signs of mold and mildew.
Once this has thoroughly dried, you need to seal the cement, block or limestone walls with a quality waterproofing sealer. Limestone walls need a portland cement based product that has a hydrolic based mixture.
Cement and block walls can use a similar based product available in a latex or oil based formula. One such brand is Zinssers "WaterTite", works well.
I am partial to waterbased sealers because they can "breathe", allowing the moisture to air out.
Now, you can rest assured that you have minimized mold, rot and decay behind the walls and under your finished floor. If you are planning on carpeting the floors and are worried about the occasional hydrostatic pressure from a long term downpour, consider using an elevated flooring system that is available in 2' strandboard square sheets. One name brand is "Dryfloor". Sold in Home D or lowes. About $5.00 per sheet. Keeps the floor warmer and helps cushion it too.
A general rule of thumb is that all suraces that come in contact with cement need to be treated or of a water resitant material.
One other note is that you can also use masonry nails into the cement or block walls for the studs, sinking them into the mortared joints. It is also a good idea to lay down a bead of "PL" polyurethane adhesive before nailing or screwing with "Tapcons", if the power nailer is not optimal.
Lastly, for those of you who are concerned that you may have symptoms of the aforementioned mold related problems, I sincerely & highly recommend a thorough detoxification like the "Master Cleanse",
by Stanley Burroughs. I have recently completed the ten day program with phenomonal results.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

RemodelMan said:


> ...Otherwise, you can continue eradicating molds by the following:
> Wash and or scrub any suspicious wall(s) with a mixture of 1 part chlorine bleach to 4 parts water. Mop up the remaining watery mess on the floor.
> ...


Actually, the Chlorine Bleach & water mix only kill mold spores on non-porous surfaces. For porous surfaces (like wood framing, etc), you will need an actual _Fungicide _to kill the mold spores. This is a common misunderstanding.

Examples:

*1.) CHLORINE BLEACH IS INEFFECTIVE IN KILLING MOLD FOR THESE REASONS: ....*
- http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/notobleach.htm

*2.)*_ "Do not use ineffective chlorine bleach to try to *kill mold growth* and mold spores._
_Bleach is too weak even when freshly manufactured to kill mold._
_Bleach that sits on store shelves and in your home continually gets ever weaker over the passage of time. In addition, read the manufacturer’s usage directions on the bleach container. The manufacturer does not recommend its use to kill mold. Bleach is NOT an EPA-registered fungicide._
_If you want effective mold kill, use EPA-registered mold fungicide." -_http://www.mold-info.net/mold-mistakes.html

*3.) 6. USING CHLORINE BLEACH TO KILL MOLD.* Do not use ineffective chlorine bleach to try to kill mold growth and mold spores. Bleach is too weak even when freshly manufactured to kill mold. Bleach that sits on store shelves and in your home continually gets ever weaker over the passage of time. In addition, read the manufacturer’s usage directions on the bleach container. The manufacturer does not recommend its use to kill mold. Bleach is NOT an EPA-registered fungicide. - http://enviro-inspect.com/_wsn/page4.html


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## RemodelMan (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks Atlantic, I appreciate knowing the proper chemicals for the mold.

By the way,_fatigue_ and lack of _concentration_, are some of the other common symptoms that you will encounter after a certain amount of exposure to molds.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

RemodelMan said:


> Thanks Atlantic, I appreciate knowing the proper chemicals for the mold.
> 
> By the way,_fatigue_ and lack of _concentration_, are some of the other common symptoms that you will encounter after a certain amount of exposure to molds.


I get that when my wife talks to me...:wink:


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