# Need to replace rotten wood support post on porch



## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

I had a nice surprise last weekend when I went to paint the wood post on our front porch, as I went to strip the paint I found out the wood underneath was wet and rotten. So now we need to replace this post which supports the porch roof and about 2 feet of the 2nd floor stick out above the porch. 

We called a contractor in who suggested using a fiberglass post which sounded good to us but his quote was really high and didn't include re-installing the two rails that are attached to the post, so my wife and I started to look around at options and Home Depot has a fiberglass post that will support 10,000 lbs which I thought was same as the contractor suggested. HD didn't have much info on the posts so I contacted the manufacturer for info and they said the posts are not meant for anything other then carrying the load of a roof and that since some of the house was supported on the column we would have to add a metal post inside the fiberglass column. 

Now I am wondering why the contractor only suggested the fiberglass post which in our case would void the warranty since it will support part of the house, and maybe I should just go with a metal jackpost and buy a vinyl column or build a box around it. 

Does anyone have any experience with the fiberglass columns and was the contractor talking about a different product that could actually support the full load without the need for a metal post?


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## bill01 (Apr 12, 2012)

How big is the wood post you are going to replace. Why would you suddenly need a steel post when wood was working.  

It would be silly for them to try to word it to support a roof only. What happens if I have a huge roof supported only on the corners with these columns and use cement tiles. 

They key is making sure your load you are try to support is less than the products limit. 10,000 lbs is quite a lot so it may be fine you just have to do the math or figure out what the maximum for your wood post is.

You might very well be able to use a wood post inside..all depends how big you are talking, those big 1 ft around columns or a 4x4 post.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

Sorry, I should have mentioned the wood post is 5 2x8 nailed together. The fiberglass post we were looking at is 8" square they also have a round version. We didn't want to use wood again because it will rot again, especially around the base we get snow buildup in the winter and it's sitting on a concrete porch.

This is in the product listing: _Load Bearing - Roof Loads Only!
Void Warranty - Structural applications where people are supported: Balconies, floors, stairs etc._

We looked at a vinyl clad system that has a metal post inside but was only rated for 4500lbs which I think may be undersized.


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## bill01 (Apr 12, 2012)

Yup that is a lot of weight. This table says a 8x8 wood column would support more than 50,000 lbs. Hard to say how much less it not being 1 piece of wood would be. Strange you have rot issues. I have had pressure treated lumber I pulled out of the ground after 10 years and the part that was in the ground almost new. 

Wood is very strong in compression and fiberglass is not. I can see why they want a steel post. 

https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/arch264/calculators/example7.1/index.html


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

The house is 17 years old and I'm not sure what kind of wood they use but the way it was installed is not allowed anymore by code so.
** EDIT: It was installed directly on the concrete, now there has to be some kind of barrier between the wood and concrete.** We walked around the area and lots of house have replaced the columns. The jackposts I looked at were rated for ~8100lbs.


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## bill01 (Apr 12, 2012)

You may want to look at simpson site. They make column mounts that hold the wood just off the concrete. The largest I see is for 6x6 

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ABW.asp


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## Duckweather (Mar 26, 2012)

Is the part of the house overhanging a second floor that hangs over an exterior wall 2 feet? If so it must be a cantilevered second floor and much of the weight is already carried by the floor design. If not the posts would have to be under the overhang to support the weight. It should not be supported by the roof. You can replace the post with the same 2 x 8 s in pressure treated and make a base from a square of 2 x 10. If the base should ever rot you just remove it and replace with another one, protecting the column. I have seen pressure treated begin to rot when in contact with concrete.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

Here are some photos, the overhang is about 3 ft past the exterior wall, I measured it, it stops about a foot short of the center of the post. In my garage I can see 2 - 2x10 that are the outside edge of the porch and another set of 2 - 2x10 that should be the outside edge of the house.

Duckweather: how would you replace the base 2x10 if all the weight is pushing down on it? I'm assuming you would have to jack it up again? I'm trying to avoid having to do that again.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

I hope you realise what you are about to do requires a lot of know how and work.
I see temporary I-beams and shoring post being placed to spread out the load while the post is replaced.
If not done correctly you run the risk of losing your 2nd floor.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Before this thread gets blown all out of proportion how about tearing off the two decorative wraps at the base so we can see the condition of the actual post.

EDIT: And peel some more paint while you're at it.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

Ravenworks said:


> I hope you realise what you are about to do requires a lot of know how and work.
> I see temporary I-beams and shoring post being placed to spread out the load while the post is replaced.
> If not done correctly you run the risk of losing your 2nd floor.


Yes, we are aware of this. At this point we are trying to get enough info to determine what we should do. We will only move forward if we are comfortable with the plan. My father in-law would be coming up to help, we has a few jacks and we can make some temp support walls as well. If he wasn't 8 hours away we would be getting more help from him. 



kwikfishron said:


> Before this thread gets blown all out of proportion how about tear off the two decorative wraps at the base so we can see the condition of the actual post.
> 
> EDIT: And peel some more paint while you're at it.


I was pick at the middle 2x8 with my finger and here is a picture of the results. I could push a screwdriver halfway through the wood. The middle piece is the worst, the 2 on either side of that are not as bad, but will soon be rotten and the 2 outside pieces are pretty good. The middle 2x8 is soft to the touch about 1.5 ft up from the base.


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## forresth (Feb 19, 2010)

Just use a pressure treated 6x6 (maybe elevated off the concrete slightly) and cover with vinyl or better looking wood. 

Also find out were the roof is leaking or correct the porch slope. I don't buy that some snow in the winter caused that much rot that quick, even considering that is not pressure treated lumber. Leaky gutter maybe?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You might also want to remove some of the ventilated soffit from in front of the post--that will give you a view into the structure and the porch column attachment point--

The soffit is fairly easy to remove and replace---

It is possible--though unlikely---that the column is decorative and not supporting the structure above--only way to find out is to open up the soffit--(unless you have blue prints)


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## Duckweather (Mar 26, 2012)

You only have to jack it up about 1/4" to replace it if the base is under the post, and that shouldn't be for 20 - 30 years with PT. I see in the pictures there are 2xs around the bottom, leaving a space around the top for water to get in between them and the post. If the end grain of the post is on the concrete it probably wicked the water up into the wood, or up between the 2xs, (capillary action). That's the reason for the base with post on top of it. If you want a sealer that keeps water out, Agent Orange sells an elastomeric caulking/ sealant. clear, gummy, and very aggressive. Alex I think the name is. If it doesn't say it's flammable it isn't the one. Lexcel at Ace, is another one. One of the only sealants that will stick to unpainted wood. usually a 50 year guaranty.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

It's a long weekend here so I will try to rip off the decorative trim and the soffit so I can get a better look and more pictures. I found out from a friend of ours that her uncle frames houses in the area so hopefully we can get him to stop by and give us his opinion as well.


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Jan 20, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> It is possible--though unlikely---that the column is decorative and not supporting the structure above--only way to find out is to open up the soffit--(unless you have blue prints)


 
Actually this is probably true. That post is not unnder any load from above.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

RYANINMICHIGAN said:


> Actually this is probably true. That post is not unnder any load from above.


What makes you say that? The contractor that looked at it certainly thought it was load bearing and I feel the same.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

cdnNick said:


> What makes you say that? The contractor that looked at it certainly thought it was load bearing and I feel the same.


I am glad you realise the seriousness of this project, because I have seen people get into trouble too many times guessing.


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Jan 20, 2006)

cdnNick said:


> What makes you say that? The contractor that looked at it certainly thought it was load bearing and I feel the same.


It could be. I am not there to look at it. What is under the soffit? What does it connect to on top? Is it resting on the pad or is the porch wall under it?


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

RYANINMICHIGAN said:


> Actually this is probably true. That post is not unnder any load from above.



there is a second floor directly above the post! It seems that there is weight bearing onto that post from the floor above , unless the porch ceiling cantilevers out into space from off of the house in all directions - not likely.

to the op, you can rebuild a post that looks just like the one you already have that is made out of pressure treated lumber. Also, you might want to look at the outside corner of the house above the post(2nd floor) and make sure that the roof is flashed correctly so that water is not getting into the insides of the post. maybe the post wicked water up off of the porch floor but it looks like a lot of damage, so possibly a leak from above?


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

Got more photos, I removed a section of the soffit and pulled back some of the metal trim, sadly I couldn't get my head up there because of a beam so I stuck my camera in and got some pictures. 

In this picture you can see the top of the post it seems there is a cut 2x10 on it's side that sits on top of the post. Then I think there are a few 2x2 or something on top of that then the beams coming out of the house and garage.









These are from below, unless I am missing something it looks like everything is just resting on the post. It doesn't look like they are attached, does that even make sense?


















I couldn't see any signs of water damage up there, the closest gutter is one solid piece so there are no seams for water to leak out of and the top of the post looks to be in perfect shape. 

We replaced the roof last fall and the roofers never mentioned any rotten wood or issues in this area. We haven't had any rain since I discovered the issue but I have never really noticed any water running down the post or pooling at the bottom.

I was talking to a co-worker that lives on the same street and he has the same problem as we do, he was actually planning on replacing it this summer. Our neighbours have already replaced theirs.


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## meanindirectory (May 19, 2012)

I also think that pressure treated lumber is the best material for your job.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

That shouldn't be to bad of a job to do,from the looks of it you will have to shore up in two spots to carry the weight.
I would pre build the post( a tad long) ,jack one area and shore it,then the same for the other.
You may want to crib out with some 4x's on the bottoms and tops of the shoring post to help spread the load.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

> These are from below, unless I am missing something it looks like everything is just resting on the post. It doesn't look like they are attached, does that even make sense?


it does not require a lot of fastening at the top of the post because of all the weight sitting on it, there are probably only a few toe nails up through the edge of the post up into the framing above. 

obviously the 5- 2x10 to house is the heaviest load spot as it holds up the majority of the weight from the floor and walls and roof above it and will be a major factor to consider when replacing old post. 

that is water wicked up off of porch floor for sure. a new post and your problem is solved!


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

I think the plan right now is to use a jackpost then build a PT box around the outside. I'm thinking I may lay something down on the concrete as a barrier between it and the wood. Of course this might all change if the wife wants to do something different with the railings.


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## Duckweather (Mar 26, 2012)

cdnNick said:


> It's a long weekend here so I will try to rip off the decorative trim and the soffit so I can get a better look and more pictures. I found out from a friend of ours that her uncle frames houses in the area so hopefully we can get him to stop by and give us his opinion as well.


If you go back to your first picture of the outside, (after the post picture), your post does not look like it is under the second floor wall. The inside of the post is more in line with the outside of the second floor wall. I would take a couple panels off the ceiling to see just what the beam is supporting. Maybe it is just the camera angle but something just looks off to me. From the picture it may be load bearing, but doesn't look like it is bearing the right load.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

Duckweather said:


> If you go back to your first picture of the outside, (after the post picture), your post does not look like it is under the second floor wall. The inside of the post is more in line with the outside of the second floor wall. I would take a couple panels off the ceiling to see just what the beam is supporting. Maybe it is just the camera angle but something just looks off to me. From the picture it may be load bearing, but doesn't look like it is bearing the right load.



the outside wall sets back some ( not much) from being directly over the post and the weight is transferred to that 4 or 5 member support beam.


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

So this is what I can figure out, I can see the end of the two beams (porch roof & end of 2nd floor) in the garage. The porch roof sits about 12-18" lower then the 2nd floor so I figured that was resting on top of the 5 - 2x10 beam that comes out the end of the house.

I'm at work so I can't get any more pictures plus I would have to remove all the soffit and some plywood to get a good picture of everything. I really only had about a 6" hole to stick my camera in.


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## AdamOttawa (May 13, 2013)

Hi cdnNick,

The pictures you took looked exactly like my situation (17 yr old house in Ottawa) - probably same builder! How did you finally resolve it?

AdamOttawa


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

Hi Adam,

We ended up placing a temp support post on a 6-ton jack and cut the bottom of the post out and knocked out the old post. It had about 6 nails at the top and nothing on the bottom holding it to the porch so it was just the weight of the house holding it onto the porch. Once it was all removed we installed a jackpost and anchored it to the porch then we build a pressure treated box around it. A few months later we painted it white to match the trim. The box is a bit bigger then the previous post but it basically looks the same as before and my wife was happy with it.

It took my father-in-law and I about 1.5 days to do everything including replacing some of the rotten railings, and it was record breaking heat that weekend so I think we did a pretty good job.

** Added: it turns out it was just regular dimension lumber that was painted on the outside, so no wonder it rotted from the porch up.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

It is pretty apparent to me that there are two girders that are carrying the corner of your house that meet on top of this column. If this were mine, I would remove the decorative aluminum wrap on the girders, as someone has suggested, as they would be dented if you jack on the cladding. Jack and hold both girders, and replace that post with a steel Box beam with 3/8 inch Bolt plates welded to the top and bottom. I would anchor the post to the concrete and lag it to the wood girders above then box it in with pre primed white pine. I would then clad it with white aluminum.

If you are not used to this type of work hire a pro. I would not use wood for this column.


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## AdamOttawa (May 13, 2013)

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your reply. I can't believe they can build houses like this (a main load bearing column that will need replacing within 10-15yrs!). 

I think I will take the pro route with this one. It sounds like your father in-law was quite experienced with home repair and there were two of you doing the work.

Cheers,

Adam


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## cdnNick (May 28, 2011)

I was really shocked as well to find out that it wasn't just a decorative box around a steel post, which is what I have now. Especially when it's exposed to the lovely Ottawa weather. My father-in-law has a pretty good technical mind, he's a mechanic by trade and woodworker by hobby so he was certainly a big help.

I hope you get better prices then we got, one quote was $4000+ and he wouldn't even put the railings around the porch back up. Good luck!


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

cdnNick said:


> I was really shocked as well to find out that it wasn't just a decorative box around a steel post, which is what I have now. Especially when it's exposed to the lovely Ottawa weather. My father-in-law has a pretty good technical mind, he's a mechanic by trade and woodworker by hobby so he was certainly a big help.
> 
> I hope you get better prices then we got, one quote was $4000+ and he wouldn't even put the railings around the porch back up. Good luck!


I would have done it all for 4K :laughing: Prep and jack, New 6 x 6 Steel Box beam, Cladding railing back etc etc etc.


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