# Gas Line Extension - Can I use Flexible Pipe?



## MikeinBurien

Hi Everyone - I'm extending an existing natural gas line for a small 20,000 BTU direct vent fireplace. Hookup is easy-breezy and I can run black pipe, but would prefer to avoid the hassles of renting a threading tool and use some sort of flexible line approved for gas.

Is there such a thing? I'm assuming it would be somewhat more expensive than black pipe, but wonder how much?

MikeinBurien


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## K2eoj

They started using some kind of yellow inside gas pipe around here in the last couple of years but I don't know much about it. i did a little job outside of Charlotte NC. and they allowed 1/2 inch soft copper. I've heard the yellow stuff isn't any stronger than copper. I prefer gas pipe that nails, sawzalls, and drills have a tough time getting through. HS>


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## MikeinBurien

Hi HS - I did some research locally and also found out that the yellow gas line is now available and allowed pretty much everywhere in the US. The problem with it is that you need to get certified by the manufacturer before you can purchase and install it. This seems like a significant inconvenience so I plan to stick to black pipe. Just wanted to stay away from doing the custom threading, but found out my local store will cut and thread each piece I need. The only problem with that is making sure each piece is the right length ahead of time. For my particular installation that shouldn't be too difficult since all I need are 4 runs.

Regarding the yellow pipe, the construction is stainless steel mesh coverered with a fairly thick protective vinyl or rubber. Very durable stuff. Sure you can probably still drive a nail through it or chop it somehow, but I would think most people would not be running this stuff inside hidden walls, etc. Seems like very handy stuff and is in heavy use these days.

I did read that one city banned it because the yellow pipe didn't take a lightning strike and caused a house to burn down. Pfft! One house burns down and they ban the stuff without knowing if it was the yellow pipe or not. Wondering how the lightning got to it anyway. 

Our local gas company uses flexible gas line to connect the meter to the main in the street so it can't be all that bad. Looks like tough stuff. No info on costs.

Black Pipe it is! 

MikeinBurien.


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## K2eoj

Our crew broke a piece of black at the threads one time and it was a very close call. When I remoldel now I'm always on the look out for unsecured pipes etc. When I ran crews it was rare that we would get through a big job without popping a water line, cutting a #6 wire , or something. Twice in my life, the tools are picked up, the owner is writting the check, and the guys are putting a few more nails in, and a nail goes into a water pipe. <P>
I need to check out that yellow a little more. I'm sure it can be bonded to ground or it probably wouldn't be allowed anywhere. HS.<P>
Probably should check to see that your black gas pipe is bonded. I'm not sure of the details but i need to check a couple of my buildings. If I can't find anything aroud here on how to do it maybe one of us could start a new thread.


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## pranderson

I have had several propane lines on my property extended for various projects using flexible lightweight yellow "Poly Pipe". My local propane company supplied the materials and labor. It came on large rolls. They said it was safe and had been in use for several years without problems. I later tried to purchase the same material for another project, but couldn't find anyone that would sell it to me. Propane company said had to be "professionally" installed? 
Several of the people I spoke to at local home improvement/hardware stores said they didn't recommend using it anyway---"Didn't trust it." I can't say one way or the other about that; It's been in the ground at my place for about 3 years now without problems. I ended up using a coated iron pipe because I couldn't get the poly pipe.

Good luck.


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## MinConst

Some of these newer products that come out sure seem nice. Easy to install, cheaper on the labor side. But it takes many years of use before I would feel comfortable with them. In running Gas I would recommend Black pipe over anything flexible. The tuffer the better for gas. I can see the utility company using a flexible connection for obvious reasons of possible movement.
You are making the right choice in using black.


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## cruzn246

*That is CSST piping*

The flexible piping you are all talking about is called CSST piping. It is costly, about $3.50/ft, and I can't find it at Home depot or Lowes in anything longer than 6/ft. I have found it online and the smallest roll I can get is 100 ft. That's $350 worth of pipe for a job that requires half of that (50ft). I have found a firm that sells it, but I really don't want to add 250 to my cost when I'm doing it myself. 

The blogs I have seen about say it's a contractors favorite because of installation ease/time. My sister had a 30,000 btu heater installed and they ran about 35ft of this stuff to it. They must get a better deal on this stuff than $3.50/ft because I saw her installation/parts charge and that $3.50/ft really didn't show up. I imagine their cast was closer to $2.50/ft.


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## moneymgmt

Flex line is pretty neat stuff. I just had a furnace moved from my main floor to the attic and we ran flex line between the joists to get there. I was told it would meet code up to 100' run. The big gripe I have with it is that its so new there are dozens of companies that make it in competition, and each one sells their "own" compatible fittings.... nothing is universal yet.


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## Tommy Plumb

cruzn246 said:


> The flexible piping you are all talking about is called CSST piping. It is costly, about $3.50/ft, and I can't find it at Home depot or Lowes in anything longer than 6/ft. I have found it online and the smallest roll I can get is 100 ft. That's $350 worth of pipe for a job that requires half of that (50ft). I have found a firm that sells it, but I really don't want to add 250 to my cost when I'm doing it myself.
> 
> The blogs I have seen about say it's a contractors favorite because of installation ease/time. My sister had a 30,000 btu heater installed and they ran about 35ft of this stuff to it. They must get a better deal on this stuff than $3.50/ft because I saw her installation/parts charge and that $3.50/ft really didn't show up. I imagine their cast was closer to $2.50/ft.


Why would you resurrect a two year old thread?
Those gas lines you're looking at in Home Depot are to connect dryers and such to hard pipe so they can be pulled out. Gas lines should not be run in them. The reason you can't find the flexible gas line is you need to be certified to purchase/install it. I also do not trust the stuff, use black pipe.


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## moneymgmt

that's hilarious.... didn't even look at the dates!


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## ranman469

the flexible gas pipe is only to be sold through suppliers to a licensed installer. some places will sell anything. but it is done this way so it gets installed right. each type has its own install instructions. all are good and hold up fine but the install instructions must be fallowed.


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## DarylB

You might try looking on ebay for _gasFlex flexible gas piping._ It's sold in 33' sections with the connections already attached.

DarylB


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## MikeinBurien

Nice! Now that's what I really needed! I moved out of that last house and now have two fireplaces I plan to install gas inserts in. The flex pipe will be really handy to do those install. 

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get the new flue liner through the narrow damper! Ugh...:wallbash:


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## Red Squirrel

Now that we're in 2009, I wonder if that new flexy pipe has matured enough yet.


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## redman11

*Flex Pipe*

I work for the ultility comapny in New York, and we do not like flex pipe for gas use, but some people use it on appliances like dryers ans stoves. Black pipe would be the best choice, and depends where you are from you may need a licensed plbr to file for a permit. Again it depends what city you live in. Good Luck!


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## jogr

I'm looking forward to this thread popping up again sometime in the fall of 2012.


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## cabledogrg11

*Flex Pipe*

Look on their site, http://www.gasflex.com you can find local distributors in your area where you can buy it. Not required to be a professional. About $2-$3 a ft. is still correct, the fittings are pretty fair.


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## log_doc_rob

jogr said:


> I'm looking forward to this thread popping up again sometime in the fall of 2012.


 Two years early !!!!!

DIYers do not understand that going the easy way is not always the best way to do things and can be quite dangerous.


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## fireguy

Do not forget, you cannot connect the flexible corrugated hoses together for more length.


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## BigEater

*Doesn't sound like the best idea*

[/INDENT]


jogr said:


> I'm looking forward to this thread popping up again sometime in the fall of 2012.


You were darn close. Check out this story from the Des Moines Register.


​_"At least 24 house fires in the Des Moines area since 2007 have been linked to a popular flexible gas tube that is vulnerable to damage from lightning, fire officials said.
​Local fire officials estimate thousands of homes are at risk - particularly in developments built in the past 20 years"_

This type of pipe has been linked to many lightning-strike fires. Apparently what happens is that when lightning hits the ground near the pipe, it is able to travel up the pipe into the house and then arc when the pipe passes by another metal object like a nail. The arc puts a hole in the pipe and ignites the gas. Some experts are saying that it will happen even when the gas line is grounded. So as usual, grandpa was right all along.


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## BigEater

See above


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## rico567

BigEater said:


> [/INDENT]
> 
> You were darn close. Check out this story from the Des Moines Register.
> 
> 
> ​_"At least 24 house fires in the Des Moines area since 2007 have been linked to a popular flexible gas tube that is vulnerable to damage from lightning, fire officials said.
> ​Local fire officials estimate thousands of homes are at risk - particularly in developments built in the past 20 years"_
> 
> This type of pipe has been linked to many lightning-strike fires. Apparently what happens is that when lightning hits the ground near the pipe, it is able to travel up the pipe into the house and then arc when the pipe passes by another metal object like a nail. The arc puts a hole in the pipe and ignites the gas. Some experts are saying that it will happen even when the gas line is grounded. So as usual, grandpa was right all along.


I can hardly see how grandpa was right about that, any more than his pa was right about never giving up his kerosene lamps. I find it difficult to believe that lightning is going to travel up plastic pipe into a house, plastic being a pretty good insulator. Our propane provider is preparing to use this pipe on a new line to our tank for a standby generator, says they like to do separate lines with another cutoff. Since it's all outdoors, I think I'll risk it.......


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## autx790

The pipe isn't plastic rico...it's stainless steel. Most gas line installers will tell you it "was" a risk to fires but believe if grounded properlly, the risk is removed. However, as bigeater mentioned, even when grounded properly, this type of gas line is still causing fires all across the country.


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## Lightfoot

i sure hope the OP got it fixed by now:whistling2:


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## Ozzie Vincent

*possible gas pipe confusion*

There is a medium density flexible yellow polyethylene tubing used for gas pipe by local utilities underground. It is thermally or heat fused to itself for longer runs and to Tee couplings for taps. I have see coils up to maybe 2" diameter. I have also seen 4" and maybe 6" diameters for mains that are maybe 40F long that are fused together into block long runs. These long runs are then hydraulically pulled through existing pipes a block at a time. They apparently use higher pressure to compensate for the smaller diameter. 

I would like to know if this tubing is every permitted above ground. 


Separately, there is a flexible, corrugated stainless steel tubing that has an additional yellow plastic covering. This is apparently permitted anywhere within buildings but does require special fittings and special tool to compress the corrugations to make a gas tight connection at the end to attach to the fittings.


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## rico567

Ozzie Vincent said:


> There is a medium density flexible yellow polyethylene tubing used for gas pipe by local utilities underground. It is thermally or heat fused to itself for longer runs and to Tee couplings for taps. I have see coils up to maybe 2" diameter. I have also seen 4" and maybe 6" diameters for mains that are maybe 40F long that are fused together into block long runs. These long runs are then hydraulically pulled through existing pipes a block at a time. They apparently use higher pressure to compensate for the smaller diameter.
> 
> I would like to know if this tubing is every permitted above ground.
> 
> 
> Separately, there is a flexible, corrugated stainless steel tubing that has an additional yellow plastic covering. This is apparently permitted anywhere within buildings but does require special fittings and special tool to compress the corrugations to make a gas tight connection at the end to attach to the fittings.


Our propane supplier installed this type of line as a separate supply when we had a standby generator installed this Fall. Where it goes above ground, it is installed in a gray plastic conduit. I am assuming (but I do not know) that the conduit is required to protect the yellow plastic gas tubing whenever it is exposed.


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## plummen

rico567 said:


> I can hardly see how grandpa was right about that, any more than his pa was right about never giving up his kerosene lamps. I find it difficult to believe that lightning is going to travel up plastic pipe into a house, plastic being a pretty good insulator. Our propane provider is preparing to use this pipe on a new line to our tank for a standby generator, says they like to do separate lines with another cutoff. Since it's all outdoors, I think I'll risk it.......


All it takes is a little static electricity around a leaking plastic gas line to set it off,and yes theres lots of static around the plastic ones buried in the ground


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## hvac benny

Ozzie Vincent said:


> There is a medium density flexible yellow polyethylene tubing used for gas pipe by local utilities underground. It is thermally or heat fused to itself for longer runs and to Tee couplings for taps. I have see coils up to maybe 2" diameter. I have also seen 4" and maybe 6" diameters for mains that are maybe 40F long that are fused together into block long runs. These long runs are then hydraulically pulled through existing pipes a block at a time. They apparently use higher pressure to compensate for the smaller diameter.
> 
> I would like to know if this tubing is every permitted above ground.
> 
> 
> Separately, there is a flexible, corrugated stainless steel tubing that has an additional yellow plastic covering. This is apparently permitted anywhere within buildings but does require special fittings and special tool to compress the corrugations to make a gas tight connection at the end to attach to the fittings.


Plastic (PE) pipe is not allowed above ground for gas installations, mainly for two reasons: it can be punctured easily, and the sun will damage it. To bring the plastic pipe up and out of the ground, the plastic transitions to steel inside of a steel pipe, or riser.


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## hvac benny

jogr said:


> I'm looking forward to this thread popping up again sometime in the fall of 2012.


This thread couldn't stay hidden until then! Who knows, maybe it'll resurface this fall. :laughing:


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## shnz821

*flexible gas line - worries?*



hvac benny said:


> This thread couldn't stay hidden until then! Who knows, maybe it'll resurface this fall. :laughing:


Wish granted 

Actually I ran across this thread while researching the flexible black gas line, as my contractor's plumber just installed some of this line in my house last night. We wanted to tap into the gas line in the utility room directly below our kitchen, in order to change out our electric stove for a gas one. He ran the black flexible line from the tap off the gas main downstairs, up and around the ductwork in the open ceiling in the utility room and through the floor into the kitchen. I don't see any evidence of the 'bonding and grounding' that I read about online, and when I asked about it, I was told that since the line has a rubber exterior and it's tapped into the main "grounded" gas line, that there shouldn't be any issue. Still not 100% convinced.


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## autx790

you shouldn't be. Being that it's tied to the main gas line, you shouldn't re ground it (assuming the original gas line is properly bonded). From what i've been told though, the rubber insulated gas line is still not impervious to lighting.


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## paintdrying

This is sort of laughable that people would be running a flammable substance through an easily to puncture pipe. Unbelievable. I have heard that flux eats pinholes in this stuff. The problem is plumbers that run black pipe can not compete with guys running this playtime gas line. Seems everyday I hear more and more stuff about how the world is going. I am just really out of touch these days.


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## hvac benny

paintdrying said:


> This is sort of laughable that people would be running a flammable substance through an easily to puncture pipe. Unbelievable. I have heard that flux eats pinholes in this stuff. The problem is plumbers that run black pipe can not compete with guys running this playtime gas line. Seems everyday I hear more and more stuff about how the world is going. I am just really out of touch these days.


What's your opinion of gas companies using plastic piping for their distribution system (60-80psig here)? Lol.


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## shnz821

ok...so after further inspection of this flexible gas tubing, I see that it's a flexible metal tube (very similar to the yellow flex tubing) that is then covered in a thick rubber. I would assume that the rubber would reduce the conductivity if my house were to be stuck by lightning. However...after the house explosion (flattening!) in Castle Rock last week, I'm definitely worried now. Wish they would publish more information as to what exact problem with the gas line, caused the explosion.


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## hvac benny

shnz821 said:


> ok...so after further inspection of this flexible gas tubing, I see that it's a flexible metal tube (very similar to the yellow flex tubing) that is then covered in a thick rubber. I would assume that the rubber would reduce the conductivity if my house were to be stuck by lightning. However...after the house explosion (flattening!) in Castle Rock last week, I'm definitely worried now. Wish they would publish more information as to what exact problem with the gas line, caused the explosion.


The house explosion in Castle Rock only happened last Friday, it'll take a lot longer before what exactly happened is known. But, from reading the news reports, I'd suspect either migrating gas from leaking underground gas lines, or a major failure of a gas valve inside the home leading to a build up of gas. It takes a lot of gas building up to lead to an explosion like this. It says neighbors reported smelling gas before hand, but did they call it in to the gas company or 911?? I've gone to numerous gas odor calls where the people where smelling gas for days, weeks and in a couple of circumstances an entire year! That gas smell is there to alert people that there is a problem and to get it checked out right away, not later. 

Sorry for the rant. As for the CSST line on your home, the concern about it is from lightening strikes, which, if the CSST becomes energized from, can lead to pin holes and then a fire if their is a source of ignition. Gas lines themselves don't just explode, you need: a leak, a sufficient build up of gas, and an ignition source. Proper bonding (basically grounding) of the CSST should bring that electricity to ground without causing pinholes.


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## 47_47

jogr said:


> I'm looking forward to this thread popping up again sometime in the fall of 2012.





hvac benny said:


> This thread couldn't stay hidden until then! Who knows, maybe it'll resurface this fall. :laughing:


You've got your wish :jester:


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