# Hall light worked before installing a new light fixture in bathroom



## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

I recently installed a new light fixture in the bathroom and the switch for it works fine, but the light switch on the other side of the wall for the hallway wont turn on the light. The box in the ceiling where I hooked up the new fixture has two romex wires (with three wires each, white , black, and copper.) coming in with a white and black tied together, and the other black and white hooked to the new fixture and the copper wires tied together. I assumed the one is coming from an outlet on the bathroom wall and the other romex is going to the light switches on the other wall. Also when you plug something in to the outlet on the wall the appliance wont work. I have tested both light switches and the outlet for current and they all have 110 volts. What could the problem be? Many thanks for any help.
jcfan7


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Did you change the splice??? If so that is the problem... If not then you have a totally unrelated problem, so the million dollar question is, did you change the splice? and if so why?


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm sorry but, I don't know what you mean by change the splice.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

jcfan,
When you connected the new fixture you may have tied into the same circuit. If so it is probably a bad connection at the splice. Splice being the connection of the wires in the box. The ones you twisted together. Open it up and re install the wire nut properly making sure the wires are all in the wire nut.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Chris

I think he probably has an unrelated problem.

The wiring as he describes it would be a simple switch loop for the bathroom light. I'm not seeing how a hallway light would be getting power from the bathroom fixture. Is there something you see that effects the hallway light that I am missing?

My guess is he has a neutral opened on the hallway light circuit. Maybe you have said the same thing.... I'm just making it too hard.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Stubbie said:


> Chris
> 
> I think he probably has an unrelated problem.
> 
> ...



yeah, I knew it was a simple switch loop, I'm just betting that if it really did stop after he changed the existing fixture there is either (A) something hes not telling us, (B) unrelated problem.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

*IF* there were only *TWO* romex cables, it sounds like it is unrelated (directly) to your work in the ceiling box.

Find out if anything else is affected and start pulling out switches/receps looking for a loose/bad connection. 


I


> have tested both light switches and the outlet for current and they all have 110 volts


As always...... :jester: Safety first.:jester:


*Hold everything. Did you check the light bulb?*

How many wires in the hall sw box?


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

221

If it isn't the light bulb I hope you don't get your butt chewed like I did the last time I suggested that. It wasn't the bulb in that case and the guy thought I was calling him stupid......:thumbsup:

But for Jcfans sake I hope your right.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Yeah....how many times have you heard "It's NOT the bulb. I put a new one in" :laughing:


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

220/221,
Yes I changed the bulb 2 different times and still the same results. I do welcome all suggestion no matter how simple.
I just got back from the house that has the light problem (it's out in the country and I live in the one in town) so I will have to go back tomorrow to check the hall sw box and see how many wires.
The reason I think that the light in the bathroom and the hall light switch are connected is because when I first started to change the fixture in the bathroom I only turned off the light switch in the bathroom instead of turning off the circuit breaker. As I was doing the wiring I touched something that gave me quite a shock!!! That's when I noticed that the hall light switch was on and the hall light was working. From that time on I made sure that I turned off the circuit breaker and tested for current before I touched any more wiring! :sweatdrops:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Your power cable comes to the bathroom light fixture first then goes to the switch. By turning off the switch you only removed switched power but not constant incoming power in the fixture box. So you were working in the box with the incoming power still hot. Only the breaker is going to deenergize that constant hot wire. 

See below diagram. 

If there is a neutral in the hall switch box (not a switch loop like the bathroom) test the hot wire to the neutral (white) wire with the switch off. The white wire will not be connected to the switch, if so you have a switch loop. If the neutral is open somewhere you will not get a line voltage reading. If you do get line voltage then problem is probably at the light fixture box. If no neutral and it is a switch loop drop the fixture and look for a bad neutral connection, if you don't find one then test the hot incoming power black to the white neutral. Tell us the results.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

Stubbie,
I will check this out when I go out there today. I will give you a report.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Did you replace an existing light fixture or is this a completely new fixture?

Can you describe what the wiring was like before you started? You must have commandeered a wire from something else to feed the new light or its switch.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Heh heh...anoher reason why they call it a suicide switch :laughing:



Also....alway check a fixture with a KNOWN good bulb. Screw it in somewhere else or test continuity.


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## bigMikeB (May 31, 2007)

You have 110v at the recepticle but it won't power an appliance, what are you testing it with?


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

bigMikeB said:


> You have 110v at the recepticle but it won't power an appliance, what are you testing it with?


Yes, I tested it with a volt meter. One with the little hand that goes up when you stick the red probe and the black probe into the slots in the recepticle. It reads about one increment past the 100 mark. I think that should be 110.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

AllanJ said:


> Did you replace an existing light fixture or is this a completely new fixture?
> 
> Can you describe what the wiring was like before you started? You must have commandeered a wire from something else to feed the new light or its switch.


I just replace an existing fixture. The fixture box has two cables coming in, one on one side and one on the other side. Each has one white, one black, and one bare wire. The old fixture had only 2 wires, one white and one black. The new fixture has 7wires. Three black, spliced together with one black coming out and three white, spliced together with one white coming out and the final one is a bare wire (copper). On the two cables coming into the box one white and one black are spliced together, the other white I spliced with the one white coming from the fixture and the other black I spliced the one black coming from the fixture. The bare wire from the fixture is grounded with a screw on the mount. The other 2 bare wires from the incoming cables are twisted together.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Heh heh...anoher reason why they call it a suicide switch :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> Also....alway check a fixture with a KNOWN good bulb. Screw it in somewhere else or test continuity.


I checked that out today and the bulb works in a different fixture. Still not getting the light on in the hall way.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

Stubbie said:


> Your power cable comes to the bathroom light fixture first then goes to the switch. By turning off the switch you only removed switched power but not constant incoming power in the fixture box. So you were working in the box with the incoming power still hot. Only the breaker is going to deenergize that constant hot wire.
> 
> See below diagram.
> 
> If there is a neutral in the hall switch box (not a switch loop like the bathroom) test the hot wire to the neutral (white) wire with the switch off. The white wire will not be connected to the switch, if so you have a switch loop. If the neutral is open somewhere you will not get a line voltage reading. If you do get line voltage then problem is probably at the light fixture box. If no neutral and it is a switch loop drop the fixture and look for a bad neutral connection, if you don't find one then test the hot incoming power black to the white neutral. Tell us the results.


I tested the switch in the hall with a voltmeter. It has 2 black wires hooked to the switch and 2 white wires spliced together and 2 bare wires twisted together. I put one probe on the top black wire and touched the other probe to the white wires that are spliced together with the switch off and it read 110v. If I touched the bottom black wire and the white it read nothing. If you touch both black wires it reads 110v.:huh:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Sounds like you need to drop the hallway light and see if you have a loose connection with the white wire but make sure that you have 110 volts on that other black wire (switched hot)when tested to the white or bare ground with the switch 'on'. You can also check at the fixture if you would rather do it that way. Got to have switched power or the switch is bad. However the fact that you have power at a wall receptacle but anything plugged into it will not work tells me you have an open in the neutral somewhere. You may have more than one thing going on as I don't see how the receptacle comes into play if you have line voltage at the switch testing hot to neutral. 

Do you know if the receptacle and hallway light are on the same circuit breaker?


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

jcfan7 said:


> I tested the switch in the hall with a voltmeter. It has 2 black wires hooked to the switch and 2 white wires spliced together and 2 bare wires twisted together. I put one probe on the top black wire and touched the other probe to the white wires that are spliced together with the switch off and it read 110v. If I touched the bottom black wire and the white it read nothing. If you touch both black wires it reads 110v.:huh:


 
The next logical step would have been to touch the bottom black wire with the switch in the ON position. This would confirm that the switch was working properly and you could move to the fixture.

You can test voltage st the lamp socket if you are CAREFUL. The tab at the base should be hot and the screw shell will be neutral. Should read 110/120.

Be CAREFUL. It;s like playing "Operation" but will flash burn instead of just buzz.


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

220/221 said:


> Be CAREFUL. It;s like playing "Operation" but will flash burn instead of just buzz.


I'm envisioning a follow up thread: "_METER LEAD WELDED TO LIGHT SOCKET - HOW TO REMOVE?" _followed by second post, _"METER WORKED BEFORE SHOWER OF SPARKS, NOW NOTHING-HELP!":laughing: _


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## boomer0369swife (May 12, 2007)

Whatever happened on this??? I seem to be having a simular problem. 3 switches on a breaker, all to lights, 1 inside, 2 outside (dusk to dawn). All were working until I replaced the 1 outside light. That light is working great......but now......neither of the others are. I will check the switches tomorrow on the other two. The one that works, I did replace the switch to a grounded switch because the other one wasn't and they had the ground wire just cut off and hanging out in the box. I looked at the other two but didn't notice anything crazy going on with them either. I do plan to replace them tomorrow. I am wondering if it is ok to have the breaker back on or no?? It ihas been on all evening and I didn't notice the other lights not working until my daughter cut them on, or tried to rather....lol. I know it isn't the bulbs.....but my lucking being what it is....will check that also. In the meantime......what else do I check if all else fails? The light that I wired had 3 cables coming in....one from source, one from switch (white and black hots) and one that ran to another light on the other corner of the house. I connected it pretty much the same way it was when I took the old motion detector light down, but had to cut the wires back and restrip because they kept breaking (I live in the desert and plastic protects nothing for long)......Can't figure why the others dont work for the life of me...........

Sorry for prob running on and I do hope it even makes sense.....its late and I need to hit the rack.......

Can't WAIT till the honey comes home from Iraq so he can do this crap,

J


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Hi

The op of this thread is still working on his problem. It is best to start a new post or thread to avoid trying to work two different threads at once. Can you copy your post and submit a new thread for us? That will make things less confusing....thanks

Stubbie

BTW what is your husbands MOS sounds like he may be artillery or demo. Marine?


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## jwhite (Mar 12, 2006)

Boomer, On many forums it is considered rude to start a new thread when one of a similar nature already exists. On this site it is considered polite to start your own thread.

As for your problem, I will guess one of two situations. You have either made an error when you re wired the light fixture, or you have a wire that has become broken under a wirenut.
First see if the other two fixtures work when the first fixture is turned on. That would be an easy wiring mistake to make. Next check under each wirenut. It is very easy to knick the wire when stripping and when you tighen the wirenut the wire will break right where you knicked it.

If those two things do not fix the problem post back discribing all of the wires in the boxes that you worked on. Be specific as to what wires are from what cables and what they are currently hooked to or wirenutted with. Also include where you believe each cable goes next.

(for example: in the light box you may have three two wire cables. Cable one is white and black from the panel, cable two is white and black to the switch, cable three is white and black to the next light. Black from cable one is wirenutted with the black from cable 3 and white from cable two (this wire has been re-identified as a hot with black tape). Whites from cables one and three are wirenutted together and are hooked to the screw shell of the new fixture. Black from cable two is hooked to the center pin of the new fixture. ( I hope you understand what I am asking)


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

jcfan7 said:


> I just replace an existing fixture. The fixture box has two cables coming in ...


From what you described, you connected the new fixture in the same manner as the old fixture used to be connected and everything else was left undisturbed and there are no loose wires left over.

The new fixture now works as you and also I expected.

Based on that, I say there is nothing wrong at the new fixture location and any other problems are rooted somewhere else.

When you mentioned you got a shock, did you at any time cause a big spark and/or a big pop and blow the breaker? This is a short circuit that could fry other joints and splices and connections upstream to the breaker box and give you problems of this kind. You would then have to examine all switches and receptacles and light fixtures through whose boxes the power feed traveled to check for loose connections.

If the meter is set to volts, at least 120 volts, and each meter lead tip touches no more than one thing, the leads won't weld.


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## bigMikeB (May 31, 2007)

jcfan7 said:


> I tested the switch in the hall with a voltmeter. It has 2 black wires hooked to the switch and 2 white wires spliced together and 2 bare wires twisted together. I put one probe on the top black wire and touched the other probe to the white wires that are spliced together with the switch off and it read 110v. If I touched the bottom black wire and the white it read nothing. If you touch both black wires it reads 110v.:huh:


 
If you have one probe on each of the two black wires of the switch and you read 110, see if you read the same when you change the switch position to "on".


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## boomer0369swife (May 12, 2007)

Oh geez.....I didn't mean to be rude!...I'm sorry....lol....I'm just so frustrated with everything....The honey has been gone 5 months and it has been one thing like this right after another.....I know I will look back and laugh....and most of the time I do....just not lately cause I also have another small water leak to fix too....which means digging another 3 ft deep hole (wwwwwaaaahhhh)......I will def start a new thread after I do some of the things you guys suggested and start from there. Thanks for the suggestions of where to look......and Thanks for being patient with those of us who didn't realize that you fella's use proper manners too........lol.......

Boomer is a an anti tank assaultman MOS was 0351, after he made it past E5 its 0369 for a while I think.....believe it or not I am still learning all that too......Yes, USMC OOH-RAH! 16 yrs in and 4 to go......if they can get him to leave @ 20.....lol I still have a few months before he gets back and this winter is killing me......800 bux for propane for a month and a half, now I use alot of wood....guess I will be posting something on how to find a leak really soon too......lol

THANKS GUYS!!


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

*Now I have a mess.*



Stubbie said:


> Your power cable comes to the bathroom light fixture first then goes to the switch. By turning off the switch you only removed switched power but not constant incoming power in the fixture box. So you were working in the box with the incoming power still hot. Only the breaker is going to deenergize that constant hot wire.
> 
> See below diagram.
> 
> If there is a neutral in the hall switch box (not a switch loop like the bathroom) test the hot wire to the neutral (white) wire with the switch off. The white wire will not be connected to the switch, if so you have a switch loop. If the neutral is open somewhere you will not get a line voltage reading. If you do get line voltage then problem is probably at the light fixture box. If no neutral and it is a switch loop drop the fixture and look for a bad neutral connection, if you don't find one then test the hot incoming power black to the white neutral. Tell us the results.


I brought some help with me on the hall light problem and he didn't know any more than I did. The hall sw and light are on the same wall as the bathroom light sw and of course the outlet that's acting wierd is on the wall in the bathroom. When you trip off the circuit breaker all three stop working including a light in a bedroom next to the hall. Now we took both light switches apart (removed the wires from them) hall way and bathroom. On the bathroom side there were 3 cables coming in. On the light switch there were one white, 2 blacks, on the top screw of the sw, one black on the bottom screw, 2 whites and a bare wire spliced together and 2 bare wires not connected to anything. On the back of the bathroom wall (in the hall) directly behind the light switch in the bathroom is the light sw for the hall light. It had 1 black attached to the top screw on the sw and 1 black on the bottom screw, 2 whites spliced together, and 2 bare wires twisted together. The light fixture for the hall is on the wall above the switch. Now I don't know how the wires go back together in the bathroom and was all that the way it should be"?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Two instant problems in the bathroom side switch box:

1. Two whites and a bare spliced together.

2. Two bare wires not connected to anything.

Mistakes of this kind make a professional suspicious of mistakes elsewhere and/or nearby.

Bare wires may not be used as neutrals. Grounds are always connected together wherever they come together. Neutrals are not grounded except at the main panel.

Given that in the bathroom switch box before you opened it up and took a look, all of the results you got so far are now considered unpredictable in nature.

Given those two problems now visible and also you have a variety of other wires disconnected and also you don't remember which went where, I am going to say that you will need ohmmeter knowledge (from a professional?) to figure out what wire goes where and get this thing fixed up.

Also consider:

3. White connected to black in a light fixture box.

4. Two blacks and a white connected together in the switch box (and connedted to the switch).

While these are not hard and fast mistakes, they would be if the whites I just mentioned were both ends of the same wire. A white connected to a black is proper only when it is the unswitched hot feed going to a switch where no other power comes in. But your switch box in #4 has other white wires (which should be neutrals). Given neutrals down in the switch box, something has to be wrong. A white may not convey power fed at a switch box up to a light. A white may not convey power down to a switch box where that unswitched power will continue elsewhere relying on neutrals that came from another elsewhere. Another job for an ohmmeter to trace.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah Alan has pretty well summed up what you have and it is not going to be easy to figure out. But lets give it a shot if you want.


In the bathroom switch box is your biggest mystery. I would like to now what wires are in the bathroom receptacle box and how they are connected.

Please perform these steps in the bathroom switch box and do not disconnect any more wires. I think I know whats going on in the bathroom switch box but we need to make sure. So get your voltmeter. Make sure the hall switch is connected back as you said.

KEEP THE BREAKER TURNED OFF WHEN WORKING WITH THE WIRES. And test all wires even after you turn the breaker off for voltage before working on them. Test the whites and blacks to one of the bare ground wires after you connect them together as described in 1.) below. Since you have forgotten what is what we will have to figure out the switch loop wire. And go from there. 

Make sure all the other wires in the hall and bath receptacle have there wires reconnected as they were originally. Don't touch the wiring in the light fixtures leave those connected for now. Make sure everything on this circuit breaker to this branch circuit does not have a light turned on or anything running.

1.) Take all the bare grounds and connect them in a wire nut and if the box is metal take a short pigtail of wire and add to the wire nut and connect to the metal box. Get this done first before anything else. You may need a green grounding screw in the threaded hole in the back of the box or ground clip.
2.) Separate all the other wires by the cable they come out of...ie... each cable should have a bare, a black and a white associated with it. Make sure they are not touching bare to bare and put a wire nut on each end if you need to.
3.) We need to find the switch loop wires. So turn on the breaker. Test the white wires to the bare ground wires. One of the whites should be hot and you should get a line voltage reading. The other whites should not give a line voltage reading. Then test the blacks to the bare ground wire and make sure none of them are hot they shouldn't be. If they are report back. Also if you do not get voltage testing to those ground wires stop and report back to the forum.
4.) Once you find the hot white wire turn the breaker off . Connect the white back to the switch and then connect the black in the same cable with that white to the other screw on the switch. Test to see it the light works when you turn the breaker back on. Do this carefully and do not touch the screws on the switch just operate the toggle. 
5.) If the light works turn off the breaker and connect the two whites remaining in a wirenut. Then take the white off the switch and connect it to the remaining two blacks along with a short pigtail that you will connect to the switch. 
6.) If this all works out we will move to the hall light and bath receptacle.

Below is what I think is going on with the bathroom switch box rather unconventional if this is correct. I'm very worried someone is using that bare you said was in the wire nut with the two whites as a neutral wire. We will have to check later.


Stubbie


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> 2 whites and a bare wire spliced together and 2 bare wires not connected to anything.


There is your red flag. Someone found a way to "fix" a problem in the past by using the ground as a neutral.

This would take 15 minutes to trobleshoot in real life but could take hours over the internet.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

*Reply to Stubbie and Allan*

The light switch for the bathroom light has 3 cables coming into it. I tested the wires with a voltmeter and one of the white wires (105 volts) and the black wire in the same cable tests 15 volts (if I'm reading the voltmeter correctly!) I believe it is in 5 volt increments. It has 0 to 50 then 100 with increment lines between them. Then of course on over to 250. The rest of the wires in that box don't read anything. The one with the hot wires is coming from the light fixture in the bathroom 

One of the cables goes directly behind it on the same wall to the light switch for the hall. The switch there had another cable leading away from it to the light fixture in the hall. In the box for the light switch it had two black wires connected to the switch and 2 white wires spliced together and 2 bare wires twisted together without a wire nut.

In the box for the light switch in the bathroom there is one more cable and it runs to the 2 outlet boxes on another wall in the bathroom. ( One of the outlet boxes I discovered when I moved the vanity. It was behind the mirror.) It just has the wires spliced together with wire nuts on them and the 2 bare wires twisted together both of those boxes tested 0 on all the wires.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Ok I see the problem whoever did this used the bare ground wire ( the one I was worried about) in the cable coming from the bathroom fixture box as the neutral to get a neutral to the bathroom switch box. I changed the diagram to show you what is going on below. You need to get a 3 wire cable with ground ( one that is H-H-N-Grd) from the bathroom fixture to the bathroom switch box. This will provide a neutral wire that you do not have. Look at the diagram. Later today I'll post a diagram showing the correct wiring.

Now what I don't now is how they connected the ground at the fixture but whether it is connected to the neutral of the incoming power or is connected to the incoming powers ground wire the branch circuit will still work as the ground and neutral both end up together back in the main panel. Point is this is wrong . You do not want a ground wire carrying neutral current. 
Now as far as why your hall light won't work is most likely related to how you reconnected the wiring in that bathroom switch box. Since it quit working when you were working on the bathroom wiring. Remember also that you said you could get the bathroom light to work. So look at the correct wiring diagram in the following post.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

Sorry, but I wasn't able to finish what I was going to say in my last thread. (I don't know how to save the message to come back to it so I posted it) I also discovered that the bedroom next to the bathroom is on the same circuit breaker. That room has a light fixture for the clothset, the bedroom, and 3 outlets on the walls. I guess that the power for it is coming from the bathroom also. 

Any way I haven't connected the light switch wires back to the switch for the bathroom or the hall. should I hook it back the way it was except the bare wire with the 2 white wires? I assume I should twist all the bare wires together and then splice the 2 white wires with a wire nut with the remaining 3 black wires and one white to the switch.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

The other parts of this circuit should be unaffected since you did not fool with them. Your description of the wiring would indicate that the power for the bathroom light and bathroom receptacles and the hall light originates with the incoming power at the bathroom light fixture..... since there is no onward power from the receptacles themselves and the hall light fixture only has the cable from the hall light switch going to it which ends in the hall light fixture. The cable getting power to the hall light switch is coming from the bathroom switch box.

Connect the wiring as shown in the below diagram. You must not use the bare wire for neutral (even though it will work) that is a ground wire in the diagram in my previous post. You have to get a 3 wire cable to the bathroom switch box as shown. 

The reason they had the two ground wires disconnected in the bathroom light switch box is because the made a mistake with the cable coming from the incoming power in the bath light box it should have been a 3 conductor with ground cable and they found out that they didn't have a neutral so they used the ground wire as the neutral. When they did that they knew they had done something wrong. They didn't connect those two ground wires in the cables going to the receptacles and the hall light because they no longer had a ground wire to get back to the incoming power ground. They had used the bare ground they needed to connect to as their neutral back to incoming power so didn't have anything to connect the ground wires to. Consequently they left them unconnected in the bathroom light switch box. This is leaving you with no ground fault protection and is a safety hazard because a breaker will not trip on a ground fault past the bathroom light fixture box. 

You should also install gfci protection for the bathroom receptacles if they don't have it already.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

(QUOTE) I changed the diagram to show you what is going on below. You need to get a 3 wire cable with ground ( one that is H-H-N-Grd) from the bathroom fixture to the bathroom switch box. This will provide a neutral wire that you do not have. Look at the diagram. Later today I'll post a diagram showing the correct wiring.
Stubbie,
I am sorry but, I don't know how to read the diagrams. Could you tell me what the purpose is for the neutral wire. Also all the wiring is behind to sheetrock. How do I change a wire?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

>>> purpose of the neutral

Just about everyone talks about the hot wire supplying the electricity and the electricity returns to the power plant via ground.

In modern building circuits the ground wire does not carry this return current. A neutral wire must accompany every hot wire to lights, appliances, etc. and be used for this return path. The ground wire must also be there to dissipate electricity that may otherwise pose a shock hazard if a defect pops up somewhere in the circuit.

In the diagrams above, gray lines represent the neutrals which must actually be white wires. Green represents the ground wires which in real life may be bare or covered with green insulation. Any other color stands for a hot wire, black then red are the most common. There are a small number of situations when white is legitimately used as a hot wire but rules are specific and also that white wire must be marked in black or red at both ends.

The colored triangles are "wire nuts", cone shaped caps that are screwed onto bare wire ends to hold them together and also insulate (cover) them. You do not have to match wire nut color with wire color except green should be reserved for ground wires. In the diagrams, wires are connected only where wire nuts or screw terminals are shown, not where two lines cross each other.

If there are not enough wires of the proper colors already in the wall, you will not be able to complete the job/work without stringing more wires. Experienced electricians can cut only a few small holes here and there in the plaster or plaster board and using thin stiff metal strips called fish tapes to get the wires inside.

When the power feed comes into the light fixture box, the neutral normally does not go down to the switch alongside the hot wire. But in your case the hot wire after getting to the bathroom switch is supplying other things too (the hall llight; a receptacle). Therefore in your case a neutral must go down to the switch to serve as the current return for those other things.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

jcfan

I changed the diagram in post 34 with some better explanation. Your incoming power cable to the bathroom light switch only has black white and bare. This was a mistake and when they discovered they didn't have enough wires to provide a neutral, constant power and a switched hot back to the bathroom light they resorted to forgetting about the grounds and used the ground wire in the cable bringing power to the bathroom switch box for the neutral. NO can do. This is why you had those other two ground wires not connected to anything. They should have connected to the ground wire being used as the neutral.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

If you need just one non-bare wire, for example one red wire, you may not fish one all by itself in the wall. You must run a complete Romex (tm) type cable with insulated wires and a bare ground wire enclosed in the plastic sheath (NM means nonmetallic sheath). If you run a new (14 gauge) "14-2" cable alongside the existing cable, the new black wire becomes the hot (constant) feed and the new white becomes the neutral for the hall light etc. further on. If you run a "14-3" cable down from the bath light, there are enough new wires so you can decommission the old cable.


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## jcfan7 (Jan 18, 2008)

*Thanks Stubbie and Allan J.*

Well I finally got the wire that you all had suggested and got it installed in the wall and wired up the way the diagrahm said. Halleluia it works!! Thanks to the both of you for your explanations and information on how the system works. May the Lord bless you!!!:thumbup:


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