# selling house, we discovered "vermiculite", is it toxic?



## mayhem69 (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi, selling house that has vermiculite upstairs between floor studs. The proposed buyer just took some tonight and is mailing it out to get tested for asbestos.
The house is a rancher which has pull down steps and upstairs is very large, but was just used for storage previously. The new owners want to make a large bedroom. But we discovered vermiculite upstairs, some is under the pink insulation, some is just bare with nothing on top.
The future owners googled "vermiculite" and seems they read most of it came from a mine in Libby, Montana. The vermiculite from that mine was contaminated with asbestos.
So now they are freaked out, thus mailing a sample and getting testing done.
Can a professional chime in and tell me about this stuff, like is it harmful? Are there laws about this stuff? Does it have to be removed? Can you just spray insulation over top?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

It isn't toxic in the classic sense (i.e. poison), but it is (when disturbed) and inhalation hazard. 

When you say between floor studs, do you mean that it is in the attic and under the attic flooring? 

Depending on the square footage, it can be abated by a professional and may not be that expensive. 

I would get some quotes so that you are covered as well and if you want to sell the home, maybe share in the expense of the abatement.


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## mayhem69 (Aug 1, 2008)

Windows on Wash said:


> It isn't toxic in the classic sense (i.e. poison), but it is (when disturbed) and inhalation hazard.
> 
> When you say between floor studs, do you mean that it is in the attic and under the attic flooring?
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for helping, i dont know it might be under the attic flooring? but along the sides of the attic there is no floor, its open, and thats where you can see it.
Does it have to be removed though? Can insulation just be sprayed over top of it?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

You should remove it. You are not supposed to disturb it and blowing insulation on it does that in my opinion.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

You can go to any garden center ,home depot,lowes , menards and buy bags of it.It is used in potting soil that is sold at Wal Mart,K Mart ,grocery stores.drug stores anywhere stores.I doubt that it is anywhere more dangerous than the coffee you drank this morning that was probably growing next to an opium field in Columbia sprayed with toxic chemicals by the DEA?


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## randlefactor (Dec 1, 2012)

We bought our 1830's house knowing that it has vermiculite in the attic. After doing some electrical and paint work, I found it above the kitchenette in a sealed attic space and some that had trickled down on the inside of the exterior walls. Unfortunately the testing can only be trusted if positive. If negative, you can't be sure that asbestos isn't present in a pile of it 1 foot away. That's why you're supposed to leave it alone even if it tests negative. The government website suggests it's more dangerous to remove it than to leave it. I really wish my house didn't have it because there's a lot of work I can't do without disturbing it. I'm so paranoid I haven't opened the attic access door in 3 years. Next house I buy I'm bringing my camera probe and checking the insulation in all the walls and ceilings.


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## mayhem69 (Aug 1, 2008)

mako1 said:


> You can go to any garden center ,home depot,lowes , menards and buy bags of it.It is used in potting soil that is sold at Wal Mart,K Mart ,grocery stores.drug stores anywhere stores.I doubt that it is anywhere more dangerous than the coffee you drank this morning that was probably growing next to an opium field in Columbia sprayed with toxic chemicals by the DEA?


yea, but is all the stuff back then usually asbestos tainted? There is an article that explains 80% of the vermiculite back then came from a mine in Montana that was contaminated with asbestos.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Could be.I really don't know.I have used 100's of bags of it to insulate block and just never considered it a threat.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Vermiculite is a mineral that is not toxic by itself. Unfortunately the mine in Libby, MT mined and sold a large amount of vermiculite that included a particular type of asbestos (amphibole). You can read all about the asbestos contamination here http://www2.epa.gov/region8/libby-asbestos.

There is no way to tell if a particular bag of vermiculite is contaminated unless you happen to know the source of the vermiculite, or if you test it. Since vermiculite was sourced from other locations than Libby, it is possible that your attic is not contaminated, testing will answer that question.

As to whether you have to remove it, I think that is a difficult question. Read the EPA link to see what they have to say about it. I am not familiar with the legal details of whether you have to disclose, remediate, or remove completely. Perhaps there is someone on this forum who has done the necessary legal research to understand a homeowner's obligations to disclose asbestos contamination, and what they are obligated to do to abate it.


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## Larry K. (Mar 5, 2015)

http://www.epa.gov/retailindustry/buildings/insulationbrochure2-1.pdf 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiculite 
Although not all vermiculite contains asbestos, some products were made with vermiculite that contained asbestos until the early 1990s.

http://www.carsondunlop.com/resources/articles/vermiculite-insulation/


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