# Battery and Brake Light Flicker



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Always something, the battery and brake light came on for a second or two then went out. This happened maybe 4 times in a 30 mile trip. I thought I had checked the ground wires for the alternator but I will check it again. I did have trouble tightening the positive batter clamp. I had to bend it a little for it to stay on, there is actually no way to tighten it any other way. Any suggestions why the lights came on and went off?


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

1. loose belt
2. remove clamp, use terminal cleaning tool, lubricate with dielectric grease, reinstall clamp, take cordless and drive small screw right above the clamp edge, at angle down, into battery terminal. Make sure clamp is all the way down to the battery top.
3. alternator is going south


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Number 3 sure doesn't look good, that is one thing that was concerning me. I guess we will see soon enough.

I drove for another 127 miles since clearing the P2A00 code, it is back. Looks like I am fixin to make a smoke machine and see where the leak is, if there is one.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Just do basic voltage check, not to get stranded somewhere. And check dat belt.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Check brake fluid level?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> Just do basic voltage check, not to get stranded somewhere. And check dat belt.


Man you would have thought I would have thought about checking the output of the alternator but I didn't, CRS ya know (can't remember stuff) lol I know it isn't the belt unless it has come loose in the past week, that thing was a booger bear to get back on it was so tight. 

The engine is so close to the side wall of the engine bay it is impossible to get a wrench in there to get on the tensioner. The only way to do it is put the bottom bolt in the alternator, then pry the alternator into place with the belt on it, which will put the tension on the belt. 

You would not believe how close the engine is to the fans right now, there is maybe 3/8 inch if that. If that lower mount turns loose, the bottom #1 02 sensor is shot, it will break the wires from hitting the fans. The engine can not move back as it is way too close to the firewall now. I have never see such a mess in my life. I believe I had rather rebuild a D-8 cat than fool with this car. They didn't make many of the SE R Spec V cars and I can sure see why.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> Check brake fluid level?


I did think of that, lol, it is topped out.

I appreciate both of your information, thanks a ton.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Voltage check. Of course, check all connectors. Might be a ***** but worth it.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> Voltage check. Of course, check all connectors. Might be a ***** but worth it.


I did that already, didn't find any loose. At least not around the alternator.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

So alternator output is good then? Around 14V? 

In that case, you got bad ground somewhere.....rusted....


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

A faulty ignition switch or wire connected to it can cause that problem. Wiggle the key/switch around a little while the motor is running to check.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> So alternator output is good then? Around 14V?
> 
> In that case, you got bad ground somewhere.....rusted....


UK, I haven't gone out there to check the output yet, haven't felt good the last few days. The ground may be a concern. When I put the engine back in, I couldn't figure out where the ground for the battery went so I bolted it down to a piece of metal that looked to be some type of bracket, I looked on the frame and on the transmission and couldn't find a place to bolt it too. I may need to rethink that deal.

surferdude2 I will check that out also. 

I do appreciate y'alls help


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Check the e-brake switch—the one on the handle that tells the car the handle is up?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> Check the e-brake switch—the one on the handle that tells the car the handle is up?


Thanks, I will check that, I still haven't gone out there, still feel under the weather.


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## JBoot (Jan 15, 2019)

Sounds like a few good possible explanations offered in the previous posts. I always checked the grounds first, and any other wires and items that I may have loosened when working on the car, e.g. sensors, switches.

Two different friends had “the battery and brake light come on at the same” problem. A simple test before taking it to the shop for repair was to test under a load, i.e., with the headlights, wipers, heater/AC blower motor all on. As suggested, the alternator should be producing 14 volts or close to it. Anything less and the alternator is probably failing.

Both times it was a bad alternator or it was “going bad.” Not feeling well…Why not stop by Autozone (or other) and have them do a test?


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

i safely bet, that ground is the culprit. 

get better, Big guy.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

JBoot said:


> Sounds like a few good possible explanations offered in the previous posts. I always checked the grounds first, and any other wires and items that I may have loosened when working on the car, e.g. sensors, switches.
> 
> Two different friends had “the battery and brake light come on at the same” problem. A simple test before taking it to the shop for repair was to test under a load, i.e., with the headlights, wipers, heater/AC blower motor all on. As suggested, the alternator should be producing 14 volts or close to it. Anything less and the alternator is probably failing.
> 
> Both times it was a bad alternator or it was “going bad.” Not feeling well…Why not stop by Autozone (or other) and have them do a test?


Thanks JB, I appreciate your help. I plan to go out in the shop in a little while even if it is getting late in the day. I will do a check with my multi meter to see what readings I get. I will also check the connections to see if there are any loose.

I just got back from Home Depot, I bought some PVC fittings so I can make a smoke machine. I am going to smoke the exhaust and the intake to see if there are any leaks there causing the P2A00 code. I will let y'all know what I find.

Here is a video of how I am making the smoke machine:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I got out in the shop today and I did do some checking. I still haven't found any loose wires or connections yet. I did check the battery before the engine was fired up. below are the photos of the meter readings.

#1 is the battery with engine not running
#2 is Battery, Eng running at 2000 rpm
#3 Alt output, no load
#4 Alt output reading varied, no load
#5 Alt output, full load at idle


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks like the alternator is in good shape. I just had a thought, there is supposed to be a ground wire going from the engine to the firewall, I am not sure I ever found that wire. I may just ground the engine to the firewall with a new wire. 

I still haven't turned the knock sensor around backwards to see if that is the problem. There are so many things to check it is unreal.

I let the engine run for quite a while today, the fans will not come on unless I turn the AC on, can't figure that out.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you're looking for exhaust leaks, it's easier to just hook up your shop vac on reverse so it's blowing instead of sucking, to your exhaust pipe (seal it well with duct tape), and spray soap solution on the entire exhaust. If you see bubbles, that's where your leak is. Like finding a leak on a tire.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Grounds. Have the lawn guy mow it.:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
There are 3 important grounds. Battery to engine which is the big wire from the battery. Battery to body which is around 12 gauge. Body to engine which is 12 gauge or a wire mesh strap.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> If you're looking for exhaust leaks, it's easier to just hook up your shop vac on reverse so it's blowing instead of sucking, to your exhaust pipe (seal it well with duct tape), and spray soap solution on the entire exhaust. If you see bubbles, that's where your leak is. Like finding a leak on a tire.


That is a great idea except where the heat shields are, no way to get to the manifold with it on. It is a major deal to remove that heat shield. Fans have to come out, top radiator hose so have to drain some anti-freeze. All 4 02 sensors have to come out, the alternator and alternator bracket have to be removed. I do appreciate your suggestion, it is a good idea.

BB I will check them. I did connect the battery ground to a thin bracket on the transmission, that was the only place I could see where it might go. I will do some research to see where it is supposed to actually go. That may be the problem with the lights coming on every once in a while. I still have the stumbling with a loss of some power problem after the car warms up. I had that problem before I rebuilt the engine and still have it. That is the reason for the smoke machine.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> If you're looking for exhaust leaks, it's easier to just hook up your shop vac on reverse so it's blowing instead of sucking, to your exhaust pipe (seal it well with duct tape), and spray soap solution on the entire exhaust. If you see bubbles, that's where your leak is. Like finding a leak on a tire.


The more I think about the smoke in the exhaust, the more I like your way to see if there is a leak. I am hoping I can loosen the heat shield just enough to see where the exhaust bolts up to the head. I don't really mind taking the alt and fans out, what bothers me is taking the top radiator hose loose. It really isn't any trouble, I just hate to do it and lose the anti-freeze.

I did get the smoke machine done today and I did smoke the intake manifold, there isn't a leak there, so the exhaust and the knock sensor is next. If it isn't that, I have no idea at all.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> If you're looking for exhaust leaks, it's easier to just hook up your shop vac on reverse so it's blowing instead of sucking, to your exhaust pipe (seal it well with duct tape), and spray soap solution on the entire exhaust. If you see bubbles, that's where your leak is. Like finding a leak on a tire.


Bingo, that worked like a champ and easy as pie. That is why the P2A00 code, the flange is leaking on the exhaust manifold/catalytic converter. I did get the shield loose enough without taking everything off. But now I have to take the manifold off for the unteenth time. Once I get that fixed my troubles should be over...yeah right... lol

I knew the flange was not flat when I rebuilt the engine, it was just too late to send it back. These things aren't cheap, I don't know what my next move is. Maybe a machine shop can flatten it for me. See the photos below.

I really do appreciate all the help, you guys are top notch in my book.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I would replace the positive battery cable terminal.

In the old days when you just couldn't get the terminal to tighten we would temporary stick a small nail in it until a new one was purchased.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Haha, excellent!


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

An exhaust leak is not your main problem. An engine will still have power with one. Your main problem is power loss when at operating temp. Building engine just made engine durable now. Disconnecting Bank 1 sensor 1 and driving it will show if O2 is the culprit. If power problem changes, Bingo! But if not, on to other diagnosis. I wonder if the crank trigger wheel on both cars are the same?:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> An exhaust leak is not your main problem. An engine will still have power with one. Your main problem is power loss when at operating temp. Building engine just made engine durable now. Disconnecting Bank 1 sensor 1 and driving it will show if O2 is the culprit. If power problem changes, Bingo! But if not, on to other diagnosis. I wonder if the crank trigger wheel on both cars are the same?:vs_cool:


I will have to wait until the exchanged catalytic converter comes in to try driving with the #1 02 sensor unpluged. That is too cool, I didn't know you could do that. The 02 sensors are new and the #1 sensor has been replaced twice so far.

The trigger wheel in the engine now is the same one I took out of the other engine.

I have been trying to wrap my head around how the 02 sensors work. From the sound of the car losing some power when the engine is at full operating temps sure sound like the 02 sensor, as that sensor doesn't work or oscillate between high and low voltage until it hits 600 degrees. I tested the 02 sensors and my OBDII meter says they pass. Come to think about it, I haven't tested them when they are hot. I will do that once I get the new converter installed. Thanks BB, I really do appreciate your help and expert advice.

If all else fails, I can install a dummy 02 sensor but I don't want to unless I have too. I am looking to try to understand everything my tester does, most of it is foreign to me. I need to learn how to read the graft and things. I need to know when the voltage of things is out of range. I don't see how you keep up with all this stuff. You need a degree now days to work on a car and that is no joke.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I found the problem of the battery light and brake light coming on then going out. The nut that connects the actual battery cable to the clamp on the positive side of the battery, that is under the plastic cover was loose. I tightened that and the light went out completely. 

That sure makes me a happy camper. I did a complete test of the battery and alternator and neither one of them came up bad. My next move was to check all the grounds but found the loose nut on the positive battery cable.

Hopefully I am getting most of the bugs worked out of this car. I appreciate y'alls help.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

So much for working the bugs out of this car. I can't believe it, dad blame it, I went out to get the mileage so I could send the catalytic converter back and I bumped the alarm switch and broke it. Does anyone know how to shut the alarm off? I cut the wires to the switch but that didn't work.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Lock and unlock car either by remote or drivers door lock or starting engine sometimes works
.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> Lock and unlock car either by remote or drivers door lock or starting engine sometimes works
> .:vs_cool:


Thanks BB, I will give that a try, I have to hook the battery back up. I cut the wires to the alarm switch thinking maybe that would work but it didn't.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Thanks BB, I will give that a try, I have to hook the battery back up. I cut the wires to the alarm switch thinking maybe that would work but it didn't.


If it's a factory alarm there could be a battery back up located in the dash.

Had a Dodge Daytona Shelby had the dealer take out the alarm system out.

Had to take it back do to the battery backup that now had nothing to align with.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm sorry, I forgot to post that BB was right on how to make the alarm shut off. I locked the door, unlocked the door then clicked the key fob. Worked like a charm. I did replace that little chintzy switch with a better one. Thanks BB.


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