# Electrical Codes and Tips



## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Kitchen*

Here is a picture from another post supplied by Michael Thomas on the spacing of outlets in the kitchen.

There must be 2 circuits that are 20 amp and GFCI protected. The garbage disposal and dishwasher each need there own circuit.


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Bedrooms/living rooms*

Any wall more than 2' has to have an outlet in it. Also any spot along the wall can not be more than 6' away from an outlet. So this means you need an outlet 6' from your door and then every 12' along the wall. They can be 15 amp circuits. I'm not positive but I believe they need to be on an arc fault circuit breaker. Here is a picture I drew, sorry it isn't as good as the kitchen pic!


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## NolaTigaBait (Mar 9, 2009)

> Here is a picture from another post supplied by Michael Thomas on the spacing of outlets in the kitchen.
> 
> There must be 2 circuits that are 20 amp and GFCI protected and nothing else can be wired off these circuits. The garbage disposal and dishwasher each need there own circuit.


nuh uh....


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> nuh uh....


What part? Like I mentioned I'm not an electrician and don't want to lead people wrong. Just trying to provide info I have read and was hoping others would chime in so we all can have a nice resource for what is needed for electrical in each room. If you find something wrong feel free to correct it instead of saying "nuh uh" or send me a message and I will edit it cause the last thing I intended was to give wrong info.


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## NolaTigaBait (Mar 9, 2009)

well, you could put recepts in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast and dining room on those outlets...you can put a clock outlet on it...you can't put the hood, outside outlets or lighting on with these...as far as the dishwasher and disposal...i use one 20 amp circuit for both, as long as the load doesn't exceed 20 amps(which i haven't encountered one)...but check with your local code, they may require separate circuits... sorry about the nuh uh post


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## Dave8 (Feb 20, 2009)

In Canada, arc fault breakers req'd for bedroom plugs/lights only.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Dave8 said:


> In Canada, arc fault breakers req'd for bedroom plugs/lights only.


Don't quote me on this - but I've heard rumors that this was going to become a requirement for ALL residential breakers. Was on Global news late last year, haven't heard much since.


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## wildcat (Oct 24, 2008)

n0c7 said:


> Don't quote me on this - but I've heard rumors that this was going to become a requirement for ALL residential breakers. Was on Global news late last year, haven't heard much since.



I think in the US the NEC (National Elec. Code) and NFPA (National Fire Protection Assoc.) require all breakers be Arc Fault. They then have specific requirements for the minimum location of Ground Fault protected circuits.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

wildcat said:


> I think in the US the NEC (National Elec. Code) and NFPA (National Fire Protection Assoc.) require all breakers be Arc Fault. They then have specific requirements for the minimum location of Ground Fault protected circuits.


The 2008 NEC requires all breakers 20amps and under in a residence to be arc fault protected.


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## handifoot (Feb 19, 2006)

So, is this for new construction only, or am I expected to replace all the breakers in my 1950 ranch?


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

This reminds me, my kitchen currently has no GFI outlet near the sink, just a regular. I should replace it with one. I don't think it's on it's own circuit though. I do have several circuits in the kitchen but they're all mixed around with other circuits in the house, it's kinda weird.


Also some more tips (gotten most from this forum actually, just thought I'd put all in one spot)

- Max devices (any point where power is accessible, ex: light, junction box, switch that also has feed going through, etc) per circuit: 12

- Wire sizes/amps:
14awg: 15A
12awg: 20A
10awg: 30A
8awg: 45A

- Color codes:

white: neutral
black: hot (120v)
red: hot (240v)
bare copper: ground

silver screws (ex plug) : neutral wire
gold screws: hot wire
green screws: ground


(someone correct me if I'm wrong on anything)


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Good start*

Maybe this thread could turn into some real wiring guidelines. I have been looking for this type of info so I know how to properly rewire my old house.

Starting with the panel, are there some general guidelines for new construction that say you are building a X sq ft house with Y bedrooms and Z baths, so this is how many breakers/circuits you would typically want and how they would be assigned?


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

tns1 said:


> Maybe this thread could turn into some real wiring guidelines. I have been looking for this type of info so I know how to properly rewire my old house.


 
That is what I was going for. A quick reference sticky for people that are doing electrical work. After 5 months I guess someone decided it was in the wrong section and moved it so now it's now a sticky and after a week it will be long gone and of no use to others.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Another code I just found out recently.

- All outside walls including the ceiling where the attic is above must have plastic boxes and not metal. This is due to potential moisture that could rust out the box, I believe.


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

Don't see anything wrong with the ELECTRICAL code with a tree in your driveway.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

Ponch,
I appreciate the attempt. I think it deserves more attention that it has gotten. I'd sure like to see a basic residential wiring plan with some guidelines for how a panel should be populated, # of branch circuits, etc. Its not like this hasn't been done a million times or so with very little variation. 

I have been reading the electrical code and it sure could use a DIY version just for residential stuff. If its not going to appear on this forum, then maybe someone knows a good book I can go out and buy.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Here's a good cheat sheet

http://www.dora.state.co.us/Electrical/forms/HomeownerPermits.pdf


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## DandHJohn (Jul 19, 2009)

I though any colored wire with the exception of green or bare (Safety ground) and white(return/neutral) are to be treated as "Hot" for 120 circuits. 14-3 romex used for three way connections use red/black/white/bare.

John



Red Squirrel said:


> This reminds me, my kitchen currently has no GFI outlet near the sink, just a regular. I should replace it with one. I don't think it's on it's own circuit though. I do have several circuits in the kitchen but they're all mixed around with other circuits in the house, it's kinda weird.
> 
> 
> Also some more tips (gotten most from this forum actually, just thought I'd put all in one spot)
> ...


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes - red can also be used as a 120v line
also used as the "signal" line for smokes



> - Max devices (any point where power is accessible, ex: light, junction box, switch that also has feed going through, etc) per circuit: 12


I'm not aware of this in a residential setting
I usually will not put more then 12 outlets on a circuit
But I can guarantee you that some of my lighting circuits have more then 12 switches/lights
Using CFL recessed lights at 13w each you could have 138 on one 15a circuit without going over the 1800w circuit rating


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## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

ponch37300 said:


> There must be 2 circuits that are 20 amp and GFCI protected and nothing else can be wired off these circuits.


As previously stated by nolatigabait, other specific receptacles can be on these circuits, also code allows the fridge to be on one of these circuits, not a good idea, but legal. Code also says if fridge is not on one of these circuits it must be on its own 15 amp or greater circuit, a good idea. See 210.52(B)


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## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yes - red can also be used as a 120v line
> also used as the "signal" line for smokes
> 
> 
> ...


You are correct. The number of receptacles on a circuit is not defined for residential applications.

Red is commonly used as a 120v supply in resi. and comm. jobs


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## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

A white wire can used for a for more than a neutral. See 200.(7)(C)), and while it should be marked, it rarely is!!!! Be careful.


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## DandHJohn (Jul 19, 2009)

Code05 said:


> A white wire can used for a for more than a neutral. See 200.(7)(C)), and while it should be marked, it rarely is!!!! Be careful.


I keep colored electrical tape on hand to mark white lines as "hot" and you're right, I've never seen it done where it should be.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm anal when it comes to documentation. If I do anything out of the ordinary or simply something not obvious, I note it! In the case of electrical I put a small note. For example I'm in middle of renovations and some breakers are closed as the wires are exposed/disconnected elsewhere and I put a note as to why it's shut off, and where it goes. The whole panel was never labeled so that will be another project for me to do.

I've seen too many times where something that should of been marked was not, not just in electrical but in my own field (IT).


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## DandHJohn (Jul 19, 2009)

Red Squirrel said:


> I've seen too many times where something that should of been marked was not, not just in electrical but in my own field (IT).


I suffer from the same kind of problems. I design displays for aircraft. One engineer writes a design description, but never releases it. Four years later your sifting though an old hard drive to find what ever pieces of it you can find to explain how the card worked he had designed, now that he is no longer with the company.................


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## Dave8 (Feb 20, 2009)

thekctermite said:


> The 2008 NEC requires all breakers 20amps and under in a residence to be arc fault protected.


 
That must add alot of cost to newly installed panels. $70 breakers instead of $10 breakers. what about 2 pole 15A breakers with a 3 wire home run. is it doable anymore?


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Code05 said:


> You are correct. The number of receptacles on a circuit is not defined for residential applications.
> 
> Red is commonly used as a 120v supply in resi. and comm. jobs


Hmm, I can't speak for the NEC but I know the CEC(Canadian Electrical Code) goes by rule 12-3000 states that a maximum of 12 outlets may be connected to a circuit. This may consist of 12 light outlets or 12 plug outlets(not appliance plugs) or any combination of the two as long as the total does not exceed 12.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Basic codes for houses.... hmmm... There are quite a few of them, perhaps that's why no one has posted concise list. I'll give a few, some already covered.

15 A-14 AWG
20 A-12 AWG
30 A-10 AWG

Plastic nail-on boxes: cables secured within 8" of the box.
Boxes with clamps: cables secured within 12" of the box.
NM cable: secured at least every 54"

Number of conductors allowed in a box per wire size is listed inside the box.

There are alot of others. I haven't covered service equipment and panels, because those things aren't generally DIY topics, and are best addressed on a case by case basis.


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

Red Squirrel said:


> Another code I just found out recently.
> 
> - All outside walls including the ceiling where the attic is above must have plastic boxes and not metal. This is due to potential moisture that could rust out the box, I believe.



I think the creator of this thread and the rest of the folks would appreciate as much accuracy as possible.
If you could provide a code reference such as article # and year instead of a "I believe" it would improve this thread tremendously.

NY Long Island is still working the 2002 code and I've never heard of that ruling. But, I maybe wrong


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Terminology*

Trying to follow the NEC and the info posted here and I could use some clarification on terms. Have I got these right?

When the codes say 'outlet' it sure sounds like they mean any type of load connection, wall receptacles, lights, etc, and not just 3-prong 'wall outlets'. 

Does 'receptacle' only refer to prong type or are screw in light sockets also receptacles?

A 'branch circuit' sounds like everything hanging off a single breaker. Does it have to be a single daisy chain of loads, or could it fork right from the breaker into two separate ones and still be one branch circuit?


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Kitchen*

It seems like the codes require quite a few breakers just for the kitchen. The minimum (2008 NEC) looks like:
2 20A for kitchen receptacles poss including refrigerator
1 20A for disposal and dishwasher
1 ?A for oven (if electric), microwave
1 ?A for stovetop (if electric)
1 15 or 20A for lighting, hood (could be general lighting circuit)

Does this look right?

Is the GFCI requirement in the kitchen only satisfied by using a GFCI breaker in the panel, or is a standard breaker with a GFCI receptacle OK?
If so, is it enough that the 1st receptacle in the chain be GFCI for protecting all countertop outlets?


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

tns1 said:


> Trying to follow the NEC and the info posted here and I could use some clarification on terms. Have I got these right?
> 
> When the codes say 'outlet' it sure sounds like they mean any type of load connection, wall receptacles, lights, etc, and not just 3-prong 'wall outlets'.
> 
> ...


As per NEC 2002 Definitions (Still in effect on Long Island NY) 
*Lighting Outlet
* An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.
*Outlet
*A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
*Power Outlet* 
An enclosed assembly that may include receptacles, circuit breakers, fuseholders, fused switches, buses, and watt-hour meter mounting means; intended to supply and control power to mobile homes, recreational vehicles, park trailers, or boats or to serve as a means for distributing power required to operate mobile or temporarily installed equipment.
*Receptacle Outlet.* 
An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed.


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

Is the GFCI requirement in the kitchen only satisfied by using a GFCI breaker in the panel, or is a standard breaker with a GFCI receptacle OK?
If so, is it enough that the 1st receptacle in the chain be GFCI for protecting all countertop outlets?

All of the above are correct


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

All of the above are correct


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

> It seems like the codes require quite a few breakers just for the kitchen. The minimum (2008 NEC) looks like:
> 2 20A for kitchen receptacles
> 1 20A for disposal and dishwasher
> 1 *20*A for oven (if electric), microwave
> ...


*putting the refrigerator* on a GFCI is not a good design. instead put it on a dedicated circuit with single receptacle


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Ongoing debate about (Electrical) Codes*



n0c7 said:


> Don't quote me on this - but I've heard rumors that this was going to become a requirement for ALL residential breakers. Was on Global news late last year, haven't heard much since.


Some people and groups are working strenuously that the IEC (International Electrical Code) should govern installations in the Good Old USA. But it's not likely to happen. Maybe, that's a good Code for Europe. But for the US, the best thing is the NEC. (National Electrical Code). You gotta give credit where it is due. NECA (National Electrical Contractors Association) is in the forefront of the vigilance to keep the NEC as the operating guide in this country. Maybe Canada, due to the attempts to become like Europe, will bow to pressure and accept the IEC. (a/o Canadian Electrical Code). (Now more than ever) :yes::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive!!!


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

ChristopherSprks said:


> As per NEC 2002 Definitions (Still in effect on Long Island NY)
> *Lighting Outlet
> * An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.
> *Outlet
> ...


The definitions in the 2008 codes have probably not changed much from 2002. From 2008:
*Attachment Plug (Plug Cap) (plug)*. A device that, by
insertion in a receptacle, establishes a connection between
the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the
conductors connected permanently to the receptacle.
*Receptacle* A receptacle is a contact device installed at the
outlet for the connection of an attachment plug.

Only Now do I can see that 'Attachment Plug' and 'Receptacle' can only refer to a detachable power socket and power cord. A 'Receptacle' is never a screw-in light socket. Maybe if it were called a 'Lighting Receptacle' , but that is not defined. 

Unless specified further, 'Outlet' says nothing about how a load is connected, just that there is a possible load connection (junction boxes, wire nuts, light sockets, screw terminals all qualify). All Receptacles are Outlets, but not all Outlets are Receptacles. 

This NEC makes a lot more sense knowing these words mean different things.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

ChristopherSprks said:


> *putting the refrigerator* on a GFCI is not a good design. instead put it on a dedicated circuit with single receptacle


OK, revised version (2008 NEC):

Kitchen:

It seems like the codes require quite a few breakers just for the kitchen. The minimum (2008 NEC) looks like:
2 20A for kitchen receptacles 
1 20A for disposal and dishwasher
1 *20*A for oven (if electric), microwave
1 15A refrigerator
1 *check with manufacture* for amps for stovetop (if electric)
1 15 or 20A for lighting, hood (could be general lighting circuit) 
The rest of the house:
1 20A for laundry receptacles
1 20A for bathroom receptacles 
1 20A for garage
1 20A for outside outlets in front and backyards
1 15A for central heat
1 or more 15A or 20A for a lighting

For 2008, almost every receptacle is also GFCI & tamper resistant.

As best as I can tell the above is the mininum you can get by with for a small house. A panel (or panels) with 10 breakers. If you are replacing your panel (which I am) it looks like a 12 or 14 position panel is probably the minimum assuming that some breakers may be half-width, and leaving a couple full positions open. I have a 4 position sub-panel fed from one main breaker that handles the bedrooms & lighting.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Just to clarify a few things: the only absolutely required circuits are two for kitchen countertops, which can also feed the fridge and dining room; one bathroom receptacle circuit; one laundry circuit; and a general lighting circuit. Obviously, you could choose to not have heat or A/C, or have a gas stove, or no stove at all. And all the other general use receptacles are figured in the general lighting load calc of 3 W/sq. ft.

So, let's say you had a 2000 sq. ft. house. The required general lighting load is 6000 watts, which equates to 50 A at 120 V. So at bare minimum, every general receptacle and light in your house could be on three 20 A circuits!


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

I am trying to figure out what is a reasonable panel size for a typical configuration. I think most homes will at least have the items listed.
I think the 2008 codes say both kitchen circuits are GFCI, so you need another breaker if the refrig should not be on GFCI. My central heat is gas, but it still has a fan motor.

If I am overinterpreting the codes, let me know.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

spark plug said:


> Some people and groups are working strenuously that the IEC (International Electrical Code) should govern installations in the Good Old USA. But it's not likely to happen. Maybe, that's a good Code for Europe. But for the US, the best thing is the NEC. (National Electrical Code). You gotta give credit where it is due. NECA (National Electrical Contractors Association) is in the forefront of the vigilance to keep the NEC as the operating guide in this country. Maybe Canada, due to the attempts to become like Europe, will bow to pressure and accept the IEC. (a/o Canadian Electrical Code). (Now more than ever) :yes::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive!!!


 
Not always the case due I am famuair with both NEC and French electrical codes and they do crossover each other belive or not but it is true!

In French code they allready adpoted few NEC codes in the French regulations and the NEC took a hint and adpot couple items from French electrical regulations.

I know someone mention AFCI well., that is old news to European electricians we have that for pretty long time it called RCD resdual current leakage device it work simair to GFCI/ AFCI { kinda cross of both but AFCI feature in RCD not always enabled (used) espcally with older RCD verison.

Merci,Marc


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

tns1 said:


> I am trying to figure out what is a reasonable panel size for a typical configuration. I think most homes will at least have the items listed.
> I think the 2008 codes say both kitchen circuits are GFCI, so you need another breaker if the refrig should not be on GFCI. My central heat is gas, but it still has a fan motor.
> 
> If I am overinterpreting the codes, let me know.


The Code says that the kitchen countertop receptacles are to be GFCI _protected. _In other words, the circuit itself can be a regular circuit, and you can use GFCI receptacles. If you bring a circuit to the refrigerator receptacle first, you can use a regular receptacle then continue on to the GFCI receptacles.

For the record, I'm only speaking of bare minimum. You can of course go above and beyond if you choose to. And I don't think I would install a panel anywhere that was less than 20 space. They are so cheap, the bigger the better.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I installed a 20 space panel in my pool cabana as a sub
I probably only needed 6 spaces, but it was cheap money
If the house is a decent size I'd install a 200a panel w/40 spaces even if the feed was 100-150a


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> The Code says that the kitchen countertop receptacles are to be GFCI _protected. _In other words, the circuit itself can be a regular circuit, and you can use GFCI receptacles. If you bring a circuit to the refrigerator receptacle first, you can use a regular receptacle then continue on to the GFCI receptacles.
> 
> For the record, I'm only speaking of bare minimum. You can of course go above and beyond if you choose to. And I don't think I would install a panel anywhere that was less than 20 space. They are so cheap, the bigger the better.


Okay, so the refrig can be put on one of the kitchen circuits. Check.

Right now my old house does violate a few 2008 codes:
There are two kitchen circuits, but they each have receptacles and fixed appliance loads, and the laundry is on one of them.
The furnace fan circuit is the same as the hallway and attic.
The 1.5 bathroom circuit is the same as the master bedroom.

Since the wiring is old, I'll fix these things eventually. I assume that replacing the panel would not require me to fix them right now.


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

tns1 said:


> Since the wiring is old, I'll fix these things eventually. I assume that replacing the panel would not require me to fix them right now.


 
I would call your local inspector and ask him if you do a service change if he will require you to bring everything up to current code. I have read about some people doing additions and other things and when the electrical inspector gets there to inspect the addition he will make them bring the whole house up to code. Which could be a big unexpected expense!


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

ponch37300 said:


> I would call your local inspector and ask him if you do a service change if he will require you to bring everything up to current code. I have read about some people doing additions and other things and when the electrical inspector gets there to inspect the addition he will make them bring the whole house up to code. Which could be a big unexpected expense!


 There is a nice gotcha some local inspector or officals stated that if more than 50% of the building is remodeling then yes everything have to be up to the code but most peoples don't relized that once you open up any walls that area is what we called exposed work that mean any cable or conductors that will need to be taken care of it.


That one reason why I explain to my customers anytime they will plan to open up the wall especally if they change room design somehow what not only electrical have to be updated to the code the plumming as well if there. 

So they can be prepared to asorb the extra cost to get it up the codes.

Merci,Marc


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## WaldenL (Jan 9, 2009)

ChristopherSprks said:


> NY Long Island is still working the 2002 code and I've never heard of that ruling. But, I maybe wrong


You can't say "Long Island is..." since different towns have there own code. For example, Town of Oyster Bay says:



> § 107-10. Standards adopted. [Amended 3-1-1977; 3-12-1991 by L.L. No. 1-1991]
> A.All new electrical wiring or installations or extensions of or alterations or removal of existing installations shall be made in conformity with the requirements of the National Electrical Code, being particularly the latest edition of the National Fire Electrical Code in effect at the time thereof, as recommended by the National Fire Protection Association, except where the provisions of this chapter or any other provisions of this Code or other ordinances of the town shall differently prescribe, in which event compliance with the provisions of such provisions of this Code or town ordinance shall be recognized as proper compliance with this chapter.


As I read that, the 2008 NEC became the ruling code on Jan 1, 2008.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*issue of "Local Code" vs. NEC*

Walden L (poster #48)...Yes! But local Municipalities (AHJ, Authority Having Jurisdiction) can adopt ANY edition of the NEC, plus their own amendments, as did NYC in 2005? adopt the NEC 2001 edition + their amendments, which became the NYC Electrical Code. Prior to that the NYC Code was not attached to the NEC altogether! (No matter what) :yes::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive!!!


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## WaldenL (Jan 9, 2009)

spark plug said:


> Walden L (poster #48)...Yes! But local Municipalities (AHJ, Authority Having Jurisdiction) can adopt ANY edition of the NEC...


Precisely my point. I was simply pointing out that at least some parts of Long Island are _not_ still based on the 2002 code. As you mentioned each AHJ can set their own standards.


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## ChristopherSprks (Sep 17, 2007)

As of right now Brookhaven NY in Suffolk County is the only area I know of that requires the minimum standards to of NEC 2008. Other then that we're required to perform to the minimum standards of 2002 and what ever is in LIPA's latest version RED BOOK.

I apologize for not mentioning Brookhaven 
:wallbash:


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## WaldenL (Jan 9, 2009)

ChristopherSprks said:


> As of right now Brookhaven NY in Suffolk County is the only area I know of that requires the minimum standards to of NEC 2008. Other then that we're required to perform to the minimum standards of 2002 and what ever is in LIPA's latest version RED BOOK.
> 
> I apologize for not mentioning Brookhaven
> :wallbash:



Do you not read the Oyster Bay law as I do? As I read it anything in TOB needs to be the "latest edition" of the NEC. That would be 2008, right? Are TOB inspectors not enforcing that?


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