# Give it to me straight. How bad is my stone foundation?



## Hendrxapprentic (Mar 9, 2018)

I live in a gambrel-style colonial house that was build in 1920. I bought it two years ago and have been an avid DIYer on everything except major plumbing and electrical. I know my foundation has problems with water and I’m sure I will need a professional’s help. But I want to know how bad the situation is. Since purchase I have added gutters to the front and back and diverted them away from the house. This spring I am grading the slope away to fight the water intrusion. But how bad is the foundation in its current state?


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## Hendrxapprentic (Mar 9, 2018)

Here are some more pictures of the basement. Even with the gutters and sump pump I still get lots of water. This is after a few nor’easters hit and melted


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

So far, you did the right thing with the gutters & the pitch. The real way to stop the water is to dig outside & seal the foundation with a membrane. I can explain the rest of it if you are interested.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

I rewired a lot of those old 20's stone foundations in the 70's and they are still standing. Probably have less foundation structure cracking than some of these 20 year old homes do now...

Regardless of how much exterior drainage work gets done, I would never completely enclose those old stone walls to where they could not be accessed in the basement. 

As you can always leave a trench at the base of them, as you have in pic #2 and get the water draining freely to a sump pump. Just means losing some square footage of interior wall space, as the new walls built get set back to allow for the access of the stone walls. Takes some tricky vapor barrier work also. JMO though


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## Hendrxapprentic (Mar 9, 2018)

Thank you for the quick replies. I have wondered about digging up around the outside and redoing the vapor barrier (if there even is one). My main concern is just if this is still “safe” and will be habitable. The initial home inspector, electrician, septic and other professionals while not “masonry” experts, did not really see a problem with the foundation. A few of them said the same thing you’re saying about how “these old foundations” hold up better than a lot of newer ones. I don’t mind fighting the water with proper drainage in the baseement and proper sump pumps. I just didn’t know if I should be more worried about the eroding mortar or if it’s okay to hold up the house without it. I’ve pretty much been okay with the fact that the basement will never really be a usable space except to hold old, large pieces of wood or metal that I don’t have a place for!


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Hendrxapprentic said:


> Thank you for the quick replies. I have wondered about digging up around the outside and redoing the vapor barrier (if there even is one). My main concern is just if this is still “safe” and will be habitable. The initial home inspector, electrician, septic and other professionals while not “masonry” experts, did not really see a problem with the foundation. A few of them said the same thing you’re saying about how “these old foundations” hold up better than a lot of newer ones. I don’t mind fighting the water with proper drainage in the baseement and proper sump pumps. I just didn’t know if I should be more worried about the eroding mortar or if it’s okay to hold up the house without it. I’ve pretty much been okay with the fact that the basement will never really be a usable space except to hold old, large pieces of wood or metal that I don’t have a place for!


I do not recall any of the old houses that I worked under having mortar laid stones, just free stacked. Not a expert here, but unless your home inside is showing serious structural wall/plaster cracks indicators, I think your stones will be fine. Get the external water away with G's advice. 

The larger issues with stone foundations that I have seen at least, is insects and moisture saturation eating away at the homes wood members sitting on it. This is where I would be eyeballing with a trusted pest control tech. (carpenter ants/termites etc) 

And over the next years with flashlight in hand inspecting where the wood sits on the stone. I have seen some exterior wood bands (the wood the floor joists are fastened to sitting on the stone) rot from moisture or have termite damage and literally start caving inwards, as the stones they sit on are seldom flat like concrete or cinder blocks would be. JMO


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

If your stone does have mortar before you do any mortar replacement do some research as to what type mortar is there now and what mortar should be used for a replacement.
Some places to start your search.
National Park Service Preservation Briefs some briefs to start with # 16 - # 18 - # 20 - # 21 & #22.
U S Heritage Group.
Historic Scotland ( www.historic-Scotland.gov.uk
The Preservation Institute ( A Division of Historic Windsor. Inc. ( Windsor, VT. )
There are others but these will be a good starting point.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... Fix the outside gradin' to stop the water, 'n that foundation will stand another 100 years,.....

I grew up in a house with a foundation sorta like that,.....
Loose stacked rocks, 'bout 6' tall, with a concrete wall poured on top of the stones for the timbers to sit on,.....
The concrete was 'bout 2' tall, 'n 'bout 8" thick, so the top was like a current day foundation to build off,....

Some years ago, We decided to replace the ole clay tile sewer line, 'n daylighted the outside of the foundation,....
The base of that stack of rocks was 'bout 8' wide, 'n only a single stone width at the top, where the concrete was poured,....
That was in Maine, the stones probably granite,....

The bouse I just moved outa also has a stacked stone foundation,....
That one is stacked limestone, 'bout 3' wide at the base, 'bout 2' at the top,.....
Discovered how wide at the top when runnin' a gas line,.....
Drilled a hole through the rim joist, 'n couldn't find the hole on the other side,.....
Did some measurin', 'n more drillin' to find a entirely hidden joist bay, on top of the foundation,.....
Inside, lookin' out, the beam ya see isn't the rim joist per say, but the 2nd joist in,....

Again, fix the outside grade to stop the water, 'n it'll probably stand another 100 years,....


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Hendrax wrote: 


> I don’t mind fighting the water with proper drainage in the baseement and proper sump pumps. I just didn’t know if I should be more worried about the eroding mortar or if it’s okay to hold up the house without it.


The idea is to stop the water before it enters. I doubt that there is any vapor barrier or membrane there now. Does the water enter on every side of the house? I would seal one at a time. Don't expose all sides at once. 

Clarance wrote:


> If your stone does have mortar before you do any mortar replacement do some research as to what type mortar is there now and what mortar should be used for a replacement.


I wouldn't use anything harder than Type N or Portland w/ sand. You don't want the mortar to be any harder than the stone. It doubt that it will stop the water from entering.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Agree with what's been said so far. My foundation is also much wider at the base. I dug down outside the foundation a couple of times and hit HUGE boulders. That foundation hasn't moved in over 100 years, and it's not going anywhere for the next 100.

The one new point I want to make is that even if you totally wrapped the foundation walls with some sort of waterproofing, you might still have water coming up from below. 

If the foundation is like mine; much wider and more irregular at the base, digging to reach all of it would be a huge project. Getting a perfect, waterproof seal all the way around seems unlikely. Water pressure is a potent force.

I dug my dirt floor down to pour a concrete floor. I have a drain gutter around the outside, two sumps and three sump pumps (one spare.) I've mortared between the stones to keep the water from squirting in, but I know better than to try to stop it altogether. Pumping it out actually keeps the water table lower, which keeps the water pressure lower.

Before the concrete floor, I thought about stocking my cellar steam with trout and selling fishing licenses.


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

attempting to water proofing outside waste of time & $ IMO; 
hydrostatic difference is great & can not be denied... 
consider a french drain to better accommodate 
your excess rainwater & snow melt effect...
LOL - not see a trout pond yet but seen my 
share of indoor pools when pump quits...

Peace


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*lots of ideas so far but don't pay attn to those who're advocating digging a trench as there may not even be a foundation - just laid up stone wall as my house in upstate n y had,,, yes, pay attn to damaged wood from water, probably slaked lime mortar,,, other'n that, you're not planning on w-2-w carpeting down there so enjoy the rest of the house,,,
i've even done a couple of these in atl

all in all, yours doesn't look bad,,, where's YOUR ' where ' ? ? location does help as the site asked*


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> *just laid up stone wall as my house in upstate n y had,*



*The "laid up stone" is the foundation & it needs to be sealed.*


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*mine wasn't,,, house built in 1865,,, 'nuff said,,, oh, btw, its still there*


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## Hendrxapprentic (Mar 9, 2018)

CaptTom said:


> Before the concrete floor, I thought about stocking my cellar steam with trout and selling fishing licenses.


Funny! &#55358;&#56611;&#55358;&#56611;&#55358;&#56611;&#55358;&#56611;

Btw. I am in Hope, RI and there is a waterfall behind my house abutting my property. No need per government regulation map for flood insurance. 

I will thoroughly take all of your advice about where the foundation meets the house and make sure that the wood there does not get water/big damage. I am rerouting the sump pump hose as the owner in the 70’s sent the hose through the foundation and somehow dug a tunnel for it through the yard (I was told). But at his point it’s sending only some of the water out and the rest back in. Thinking of adding a second pump in the other sump down there too for good measure. 

The only other downside I find in this type of basement is how hospitable this foundation is to snakes and spiders. They love it down there. Only garter snakes at this point but still. Had a few living between the siding and the foundation with access to the inside. Mice are only a problem in the winter because of that I’m sure! Thinking about bombing the basement but probably won’t do much considering how many nooks and crannies there are


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