# Romex around or through load bearing wall studs



## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

Do not notch the double plate. You can drill through it but you have a lot of wires to pass through it.


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## goosebarry (Mar 28, 2012)

If your new cabinets are going all the way to the ceiling, simply build the box inside the top back of the cabinet. You may have to tweek the upper cabinet layout.

FYI, some manufactures have cabinets with the backs inset 3 inches.

I don't have CAD tool on this PC. Here is a simple sketch


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm waiting for the 'discussions' regarding Romex in conduit........

But I agree with goose.....the impact to your cabinets is minimal and a lot safer (construction...electrical....effort) overall...


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You mean the exception that allows those cable to enter the panel if it is surface mounted?


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## fdiddy (May 8, 2010)

If your kitchen is large enough you can fur out the wall. The benefit of this is that you can put backing up to make your cabinets go up easier at the same time.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

If I read the OP correctly, they are gaining a foot of ceiling but only adding 6" of cabinet. Would it not be permissible to box in the top 6" and leave the romex as is?


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

I would take all the wires out,drill the plate and reconnect the wire,there see how easy that was.


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## M3 Pete (May 10, 2011)

Ravenworks said:


> I would take all the wires out,drill the plate and reconnect the wire,there see how easy that was.


I do not know code requirements for how large you can drill the holes and how many wires you can put in a top plate hole, but it seems like a whole lot of wires there. But you can probably split several off through adjacent studs and run them up through the top plate in the adjacent bays.

Probably easier than furring the wall, building a cutout in the cabinet, etc.

But if evstarr is correct, and he has 6" on top of the new cabinets, then building a small box out of 2X and drywall is easiest. You will never see it on top of the cabinets.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

I am wondering about the truss sitting on the plate right smack in the center of the stud bay.


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## M3 Pete (May 10, 2011)

Ravenworks said:


> I am wondering about the truss sitting on the plate right smack in the center of the stud bay.


 24" OC trusses atop 16" OC studs?


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Ravenworks said:


> I am wondering about the truss sitting on the plate right smack in the center of the stud bay.


Raven,
that's part of the reason for a double top plate. Walls are framed 16"oc, trusses normaly 24"oc. Every other truss hits in the middle.

Fred,
If you have 36" upper cabinets, mount them with the bottoms at 54" off the floor like you normally would. Mount a matching filler on top flush with the face frame to cover most of the space between the top of the cabinet and the ceiling. Finish off with a crown of aprox 3-3 1/2". I usually mount a 2x4 upright on the top of each upper cabinet to support the filler, if you follow what I'm saying. It gives the filler some support when nailing the crown.
Mike Hawkins


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## fredm54 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Wrong wall!*

I guess I left out an important detail....the cabinets are NOT going in this wall!
All of the cabinets and appliances are on the walls opposite of the one in the pictures. 
I appreciate all the suggestions and if I were putting cabinets I would use your suggestions to modify one cabinet to hide the wires in and/or build a box on top.

Keep the ideas coming!

thanks!

ps: Wife just said, "We could just buy more cabinets and put some there" !!! :no:


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

There is no reason that I know of that you couldn't drill holes in the top plate and run 2 cables thru each hole. Yeah, you are going to have like a dozen holes, but there really isn't that much weight on the top plate. The most of the weight will be transferred thru the studs.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

You could build it out


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## RST (Jul 19, 2009)

How about you build it out and put a vent grate on it? Then it will look like something practical and intentional. You would only need a few inches of depth. Do make sure to insulate so you're not sending conditioned air into the attic. 

Crown molding adds some nice elegance, might be a good choice depending on the look you are going for. Most people probably wouldn't notice it anyway. I can't remember how many rooms in my house have it...

Rewiring all of those through the top plate would be a last resort, IMHO.

RST


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

I think you're going to have to build a little bulkhead there anyway because the drywall's not going to sit flat over those hold down straps and I don't think you want to remove them..


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Ravenworks said:


> You could build it out


My thoughts exactly. Double up the wall.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Jim Port said:


> You mean the exception that allows those cable to enter the panel if it is surface mounted?


And sealed.
And a bushing or fitting.
And derated.
And secured within 12" of entering the conduit.
And conduit fill.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

No need to worry about the little stuff, when you can't get the big stuff right.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Jim Port said:


> No need to worry about the little stuff, when you can't get the big stuff right.


Agreed.

I figure the derating actor to be 40%.


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## fredm54 (Sep 22, 2010)

Lot of information here! That wall extends almost 24 feet (kitchen and dining area) so I don't think I want to build out the wall. Boxing that area out just won't look right. 

I think I'm going to either drill several holes or cut out 2 notches. Both options will weaken the double 2x4s on the top so I have an idea to reinforce that section.

Here's what I have in mind.... (this is just an example, I'm showing at this location for simplicity)

In the picture I have a 2x4 on edge (A) which will be bolted or nailed in place. Then 2 blocks (B) through bolted in place.
I could even fit in a 2x6 on edge and use thicker blocks. I would install some protection plates to protect the notched or drilled areas. This should add some strength for the rafter sitting above. I could make the 2 notches up to 1.5" deep and should get all the wires in there.

If you think I need more I can get some 1/4" steel angle iron and place that under the 2x4 or 2x6. Also, what wood specie would be the strongest? Southern Pine, PT Pine or something else?

It looks like some of those straps are already behind the drywall as I can see the wall isn't straight as it gets near the top. A couple straps have only 1 nail in it! How does someone miss the hole and drives a nail next to a strap? 

thanks!


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## M3 Pete (May 10, 2011)

You should probably ask this in the construction forum to get some framer opinions.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Drill holes instead of notching. The wood will be stronger.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Now may be the time to pull the cables out of the conduits and install them through newly drilled holes in the top plate. Will require a little extra work but the results will be better and you can fix the code violations as well.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

electures said:


> Now may be the time to pull the cables out of the conduits and install them through newly drilled holes in the top plate. Will require a little extra work but the results will be better and you can fix the code violations as well.


I would have to agree with this idea. Since you will be patching in sheet rock along the top you may just as well cut out behind the panel board and fix this up right. Looking at what can be seen in the pictures, some of those cables will need to be re-routed because they appear to short. Drilling 3/4" holes in the center of the top plate will give you lots of room for cables and met the 1 1/4" rule for protection.


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## fredm54 (Sep 22, 2010)

I did some quick Google searches and it appears to be ok to drill or notch a top plate (within some limits) as long as it's properly reinforced. I'll post a question in the construction area about reinforcing that section and see what they think of my example.

I've got a few 12/2 romex cables that are too tight. Would it be ok to install 1 or 2 junction boxes somewhere above the top plate where I can make some splices?

The boxes would eventually become non accessible once the drywall goes back up. Also, I might be able to add a 3rd conduit stub and move some romex cables around so they fit better.

thanks!


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

it's never ok to bury a box, not for any reason unless(and this is in canada) the joint is soldiered and heat shrunk. Better plan is to install the box/bulkhead with the grate so you can access the box.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Using those blocks labeled "B" as cripple studs only structures this as strong as the fasteners are that you are using on "B". But I guess its not hurting to add.


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## fredm54 (Sep 22, 2010)

I went ahead and used a 14" piece of 12 gauge steel Powerstrut material (solid, no holes) secured with 1/2" bolts. I drilled four 1.5" holes in the top plate and ran the wires through them. I still have a few small wires I have to pull in. I will be installing some nail plates for protection. I'm thinking of adding another piece 2" pvc to stub up from the breaker panel and rearrange the wires some.

thanks!


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Those sleeves cannot be used on a flush mount panel.

Just bring the cables into the knockouts on the panel and use the proper cable clamps.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Install some nail plates to protect the wires.


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