# Is this large battery drain?



## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm not sure I'm doing it right -- is this a large battery drain?










Should I start testing each fuse? Or should I get a new battery?

I connected the multimeter in series to the ground terminal of our Kia Sportage 2008. Battery always dies. If we use it for about 20 minutes or so, battery will charge and then we can start the engine (after shutting off).

We have Viper remote starter installed but can't tell if the battery dying happened when Viper was installed.

Thanks a lot.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

If I'm reading it right that is the 10 amp scale and it is reading half an amp and that would drain a battery. I tried to remove a Viper security system from a relatives vehicle and got no support from them and found no schematics. Maybe a remote starter would not be as confidential. Ended up junking the vehicle partially because of the random lockout from Viper.

Whoever installed the remote starter should be able to test for any excess drain. What you are reading is way too high for standby.

Watching that reading and pulling some fuses one at a time might work to identify the problem area.

Bud


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

The meter is reading .050 amps or 50 mA. Do you know if the 10 amp scale on your meter is working properly? Most higher amp scales on dvom are not fused and if used incorrectly will never read correctly. 

You could replace your meter with a 12 volt test light in series. Bulb should not light or be dimly lite.

That does not seem like an excessive draw for a 2008 car. Do you know what the maximum Kia allows?


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd start by checking battery condition and alternator output.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks 47, so the 10 amp scale is just the maximum it can handle. I'm thinking of my analog meter that gives me a multiplier (at least on ohms).
Corrections welcome.

Bud


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Thank you, all. I'm fairly new with multimeters so I can't tell if mine is working properly. I constructed a 12 volt light tester (by watching a Youtube video) from a spare brake light bulb. So first I have to test if my diy construction works. But my brake light bulb does not show polarity (it's the Sylvania 7443). To test, does it matter which wire goes to which battery terminal?










(I tried my diy light tester in series on the Kia battery and it did not light.)

I also do not know what the maximum draw Kia allows. I'll try asking on a Kia forum.

Thanks a lot.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Polarity on the bulb doesn't matter.

I did a little internet search for the amount of draw and no luck. I did find a thread about a 2007 kia drain. There was a tsb issued and don't know if it would apply to you. See starting at the bottom of page 1.

http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-cerat...9409-dead-battery-parasitic-current-draw.html


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

should be under 10ma, if not then the battery will drain within a week without starting car.
most of the time car remote starters are the drain problem. always unplug them if not using the car for few weeks or battery will be dead!


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Thank you 47_47 for looking things up. I appreciate it.

My diy light bulb tester works -- I have a Stanley jump-starter, tested it on there, and it lights up.

Regarding my problem, my understanding so far:

1) My light tester does not light up when connected in series to battery ground terminal and battery ground cable. So there is no (significant) power drain.

2) When we drive the car around for about 20 minutes, the car can be started again. So this would rule out the alternator.

3) Since there is no power drain (#1 above), then a TSB (regarding software update) if there is one for Sportage does not matter.

These are just my understanding but I'm a newbie so could be wrong. I'm itching to just get a new battery -- the one we have now is Diehard 124R.


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Thank you, carmusic. So I guess 50mA is still too high. I will look for the Viper under the dash. I looked earlier but can't tell. Would you know how to disconnect it? Is it just a matter of unplugging a wire?


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

50ma is not a problem with a healthy battery, if you are driving it on a regular basis. It is one amp hour (or 12watt hours) every 20 hours.

How old is your battery and what condition is it ? I would recommend you take it somewhere, have it fully charged, and then load tested.

If it tests bad, replace it. 
If it tests good, then have the cars alternator output checked. 

Don't disconnect anything or go chasing ghosts until you eliminate the two most likely causes, first.


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Hi, Oso954. OK -- thanks. I ordered a battery tender online so when it arrives I can fully charge the battery. I'll just have to find a place to load test it.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

A battery tender adds a little bit of charge to maintain a battery at full charge. 

If a battery is discharged to where it won't start a car, it can take days (if not a week or more) to reach full charge on a tender. 

Even a home sized 10 amp charger would probably take 8 hrs plus or minus.
You need to get it on a larger charger. 

Call around and get a price on charging it and testing it from your local auto parts stores. Or your local mechanic.


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Hi, Oso954. OK I'll call Autozone to see if they do battery test. If not, my mechanic.

The battery tender has nearly 4,000 reviews averaging over 4 (out of five) stars -- people are raving -- so I thought I stumbled into one of those things handy to have around especially with the way my wife uses her car (this is actually her car) which is infrequent and when she does only for short distances. I had an idea from the reviews it will take 2-3 days to fully charge but didn't know a week or more. Thank you for that

BTW, we ran the engine on the driveway for 15 minutes last night before driving another 10 to the mall. When we came back, it's dead. So maybe the alternator.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

What is the battery voltage with the engine off and with it running? Dvom on 20 volts dc.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I've got a car known to have a big drain.... it takes a pretty long time to shut down... maybe 15 minutes...and you'll hear it shut down...... 

after it shuts down, I'm getting about a 40 ma drain.... before it shuts down about 200 ma drain.

I've tried to pull fuses to check circuit drain, but one fuse box is in the passenger compartment which wakes the car and puts me in full pre shut down drain.

Basically, I put a new battery in every three years... but when I do, on many battery testors I get an OK battery, (auto zone/wallmart/sears). On both their short and full two hour test.

I don't understand why I get a good battery reading, but I put a new one in and everything is fine for three years.

If the car is used in very short trips... like down our street for a home I was redoing, the alternator does not have time to charge it... but used normally no problem.

I have a good shumacher charger if we leave it parked for a long time.

It has been this way since new..... Guess I'm saying, be cautious with the battery test and maybe have several tests..... and maybe live with the drain and intermittant battery replacement.... get the batterys with the guarantee.

Auto Zone has been good replacing them. I use Bosch

Good luck


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

47_47 said:


> What is the battery voltage with the engine off and with it running? Dvom on 20 volts dc.


Before starting engine:









With engine running:









When I went to BJs Auto and showed the "engine running" photo to the mechanics there, one mechanic said my battery is great. But when I next showed my "engine not running" photo, his initial reaction was surprise saying my battery's bad. Then seeming to back down a bit said something like it's an indication that one of the cells in my battery is starting to go. 

All that was after they told me not to get BJs' battery (after asking if they have a stronger battery) but get Interstate instead, so there's no desire to make a sale on their part.

We actually drove the car to BJs for about 30 minutes on the Interstate but even then the battery would not start the car. The interior lights, radio, etc. come on, just won't carry charge enough to start the car.

I'm planning to get a new battery, possibly tomorrow -- wife is insisting. Thank you, MTN REMODEL LLC, we might just do as you say. The battery we have is definitely more than 3 years old.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

I have this table printed and tacked up on the wall in the garage:

V @ 77F % CHARGE S. GRAVITY
12.73 100% 1.277
12.62 90% 1.258
12.50 80% 1.238
12.37 70% 1.217
12.24 60% 1.185
12.10 50% 1.172
11.96 40% 1.148
11.81 30% 1.124
11.66 20% 1.098
11.51 10% 1.073


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## KHouse75 (May 14, 2008)

What is the age of the battery? Batteries these days don't last long.

On the third in my 2002 Ram 1500 with 155K miles. 3rd in my 2007 Suburban with 254K miles. Just installed a AGM in it to see if it does any better. In the Suburban, they'll be good for a 3-4 years then they start going dead quickly. Leave the inside lights on for 5 minutes, dead. Water fill is always fine. Tests fine at auto parts store.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Oso954 said:


> If a battery is discharged to where it won't start a car, it can take days (if not a week or more) to reach full charge on a tender.


 I found 24 hours on the tender would charge a battery enough to start a car. Possibly was not fully charged, but started the car just fine. Must have done it half a dozen times.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Did you check the electrolyte (water) level? The high volt reading running and the low reading off would suspect low level or a shorted cell.

Listen to wife and change battery. Recheck voltage with engine running after new battery. Should be between 13.6 and 14.6 volts.


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## vcsolit (Apr 17, 2012)

Good for now, got new battery, until 3-4 years. Our old battery was at least 4 years old, I don't think more than 5. We replaced it back then for the same reason, battery was failing. I guess KHouse75 is correct -- batteries don't last as long these days. Thanks, ChuckF -- our battery does look pretty bad not even making it to your chart. SPS-1, being that we only drive the car local -- mall, strip mall, groceries and back, I doubt it will ever get a full charge. We probably use more charge starting the car than the alternator giving some charge back. So tender I think will be useful. Thank you 47_47, the readings before starting and after starting was very useful. After new battery, reading for before starting was 13.xx, I forgot how much exactly because I didn't take a photo.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

when car running you should not exceed 14.8-15 volts, if this is the case you are overcharging the battery and this will kill the battery


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> After new battery, reading for before starting was 13.xx, I forgot how much exactly because I didn't take a photo.


That's actually considered a "bad" reading. Most likely a "surface charge".

Here is a article on testing batteries/obtaining meaningful readings.
https://www.pacificpowerbatteries.com/aboutbatts/Car%20Battery%20FAQ/carfaq4.html

Personally, I am a believer in the hydrometer for testing lead acid batteries. When I buy one, I insist on the old fashioned removable caps. It allows hydrometer testing and you can top off the electrolyte with distilled water.

Maintenance free batteries generally don't last as long as one you can maintain.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

13.5 to 14.5 volts is the good range. Anything under or over that needs to be addressed. A bad battery will make a charging system go wacky.:vs_cool:


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

It might be good, it might not be. You don't know unless you try knocking off the surface charge. Especially when you have been having cranking/starting problems.



> Figure 2 shows a stratified battery in which the acid concentration is light on top and heavy on the bottom. The light acid on top limits plate activation, promotes corrosion and reduces the performance, while the high acid concentration on the bottom makes the battery appear more charged than it is and artificially raises the open circuit voltage. The unequal charge across the plates reduces CCA (cold cranking amps), and starting the engine is sluggish.


The above quote is from the Battery University
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/water_loss_acid_stratification_and_surface_charge

The battery university has a lot of other good pages on batteries. It is a great resource.


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