# Hydro-jetting gone bad



## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

A few pictures to show what I'm trying to explain.

View attachment 22210


At this very moment I have a restoration clean up company cleaning up the mess from yesterday. I'll try to keep this short. The plumber did hydro-jetting from the floor drain in my garage. When he was done he asked us to flush the toilet in the basement to check the flow of water. That is when we discovered the disaster. Sandy, granular dirt sprayed (more like exploded) everywhere. Water/dirt sprayed through the toilet, the bathroom sink drain, the shower drain, the kitchen sink drain, the laundry tub and the floor drain in the laundry room. All the drains are on the basement level, one step up from the garage. The dirt is EVERYWHERE.....walls, ceiling floor, etc.

What caused this. The plumber had few words after this happened. He left without explanation. I called the plumbing company. I was told to file a report and they would get back to me next week. I am also without hot water. The"spray" shut my tank off and now it will not go back on.

Thanks for any advice/responses.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Wow---That plumber should have had a helper watching the house drains.

Good luck with that! Let us know how things turn out.--Mike--


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## rustyjames (Jul 20, 2008)

marieb said:


> At this very moment I have a restoration clean up company cleaning up the mess from yesterday. I'll try to keep this short. The plumber did hydro-jetting from the floor drain in my garage. When he was done he asked us to flush the toilet in the basement to check the flow of water. That is when we discovered the disaster. Sandy, granular dirt sprayed (more like exploded) everywhere. Water/dirt sprayed through the toilet, the bathroom sink drain, the shower drain, the kitchen sink drain, the laundry tub and the floor drain in the laundry room. All the drains are on the basement level, one step up from the garage. The dirt is EVERYWHERE.....walls, ceiling floor, etc.
> 
> What caused this. The plumber had few words after this happened. He left without explanation. I called the plumbing company. I was told to file a report and they would get back to me next week. I am also without hot water. The"spray" shut my tank off and now it will not go back on.
> 
> Thanks for any advice/responses.


The water from the jetting chose a path of the least resistance, in this case through your fixtures, not out into the sewer. The plumber's approach going through the garage floor drain was probably the wrong one.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

That's what I thought. The restoration people just left. I have a lot a head of me to clean. They got up about 85%, so the hard part is done. There is dirt in every little crack possible. It's like someone took a hose full of sand and blasted the room. I cannot even begin to describe it. This never should have happened. Hopefully this post will educate others before they get hydro-jetted.

That makes sense. I never would have expected this to happen...not when you hire a professional.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

_2 threads on the same subject merged_
_Please only start one thread on an issue_
_Thanks_


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

are you saying this happened when you flushed the toilet or you just noticed it when you flushed the toilet?

I cannot see how flushing the toilet would have cause or allowed that to happen. I can see where the plumber could have screwed up _while_ he was doing the work that might have caused that.

It sounds like he might have gone the wrong way in the drain line when he fed his nozzle into the drain line.

the big question:

is the drain he was attempting to clean clean now?



I can't think of any reason this should have affected your hot water though. The water supply is totally isolated from the drainage system and there is no way he should have been able to do anything to the water supply I can think of.


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## rustyjames (Jul 20, 2008)

nap said:


> are you saying this happened when you flushed the toilet or you just noticed it when you flushed the toilet?
> 
> I cannot see how flushing the toilet would have cause or allowed that to happen. I can see where the plumber could have screwed up _while_ he was doing the work that might have caused that.
> 
> ...


The plumber told her to flush the toilet when it was discovered, not from the flush. He should of had someone watching the lower floor fixtures while he was jetting. All that water could have knocked out the pilot on the gas heater (if that's what type); sometimes they are tricky to re-light.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

Sorry for the confusion. I have yet to go to bed so my brain is sluggish.

The "explosion" from the drains was happening while the plumber was jetting the garage drain. However, it was not discovered until he asked us to go inside and flush the toilet.

The spray of water was so forceful it even sprayed the ceiling and sprayed into the "vents" of the hot water tank, which tripped the circuit breaker and shut off the pilot. I ran a dehumidifer through the night in front of the tank to help it dry out. It finally lit about 20 minutes ago.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't know the situation with the drain other than water is draining. I have to call another plumber to camera that drain to see what's going on. I actually thought that the jetting may have ruptured part of the drain, sending all that dirt/sand everywhere.


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## rustyjames (Jul 20, 2008)

Bottom line: the plumber should have known better. I can imagine what you're going through, especially on a holiday weekend.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Marie---It sounds to me like you have done well with this situation--Getting a crew in fast to get the water out. What a mess.

I've hired plumbers to Hydroblast.-----I never thought of this kind of calamity. If I need to get the service again I'll be on site myself to watch out.

Your bad luck may have helped a few others here. Hydroblasting is a good way to clear pipes.
Serious operator error here.---Mike---


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

If you haven't already, *SHUT THE GAS VALVE OFF TO THE WATER HEATER! *

He wasn't jetting the "garage floor drain", he was jetting through the main line cleanout to clear an obstruction in the building sewer between the house and the street. By looking at the pictures, it appears the line is most likely Orangeburg pipe. A jetter will destroy that kind of pipe. The line is most likely collapsed. Not necessarily from the jetter, but that contributed to the problem. The water he was jetting into the line (most likely @ 3000+ psi) had to go somewhere (path of least resistance). It didn't make it to the street, thus the mess. Bottom line is you have a much bigger problem than a mess. Sewer line repair/replacement. 

As far as whether the plumbing company is responsible, that would be a question for an attorney. You most likely signed a work authorization that said they weren't responsible for damage, unforeseen problems, etc. Nevertheless, the plumber should have taken more preventative measures to avoid the backup and had another person watching while he jetted.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

OMG...I didn't think I could feel worse about this, now I do! But, I am so thankful to get opinions and comments. Wow, what if there is damage to my line?

The insurance adjuster was here today. I think my insurance company is going to handle everything, meaning dealing with the plumber. I've spent the day cleaning after the restoration people cleaned....so much to be wiped. 

The plumbing company actually called today. The bottom line is they wanted to know what I wanted/compensation. I'm just in a state of confusion now and told them I have to have another plumber come out with a camera to check the line. They want me to call them back after that happens.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

Dear LateralConcepts, my water heater is gas but does not have a continuous pilot. It only lights when needed. Should I still not heat my water and why? Thanks.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

OK, I just shut the electricty AND the gas supply to OFF.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

marieb said:


> OK, I just shut the electricty AND the gas supply to OFF.


Better safe than sorry. I assumed the water had distinguished the pilot light. If everything is dry now you should just be able to re-light it and heat water again. No problem with that unless there was damage to electrical.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

> OMG...I didn't think I could feel worse about this, now I do! But, I am so thankful to get opinions and comments. Wow, what if there is damage to my line?


Don't mean to make you feel any worse. Just trying to be realistic. 

When was the house built? Where are you located? Up until about the mid-70's sewer pipe was made of typically just a couple common materials. Either clay or bituminous fiber (aka orangeburg). The problem with the line could be minor or could mean entire replacement. Either way will likely require some type of excavation. Just let the plumber run a camera down the line to determine what kind of pipe it is and condition. If the plumbing company tells you something extravagant or astronomical you may want to get a second opinion. If the line is clay you may have a chance at a spot repair to fix the break. If it's orangeburg, I would recommend replacing the entire line for peace of mind. If the jetter didn't make it all the way to the street, the camera won't either. So basically you'll be locating the bad spot, then you can only speculate about the condition beyond that point. 

PS - Did you try calling? I had a missed call today from a (724) area code.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for getting back. I will post again with an update after another plumber checks things out.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

marieb said:


> Thanks for getting back. I will post again with an update after another plumber checks things out.


You're welcome. Please do. I'm interested to see how it turns out.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

LateralConcepts...yes I did try calling. I checked out your website and obviosuly felt you would be someone to ask a few questions.

We were told our line is terracotta...the outside anyway. They did a camera to the outside line. There were not any breaks, but they told us the line is old and should be replaced. The water did run to the street, but we were told there were some "damns" along the way. The house was built in 1977. They also said they could do a "line in a line" which would prevent the expense of digging. The cost would be $30,000.00 for 50 feet. I thought that was crazy!

The never did a camera to the inside part of the line.

Over the past day I've spent time researching this company. Over 2600 complaints against them. Another plumbing company is even suing them. Apparently they bought 180 domains that were very similiar to other plumbers to direct internet searches to them. Everything about this seems unethical. They apparently charged a senior $1300 just to remove a faucet. Anyway, I'm not saying any of this is fact..it's just what I have read.

And yes, it is facing the reality of all of this that is making me feel worse. I'm very disappointed in this company. They should have taken precautions so none of this would have happened, like doing a camera first, having someone watch the drains inside, etc.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

$30K!? Holy !!! (pardon my language) You've gotta be kiddin' me! The company I used to work for was very competitive and we would typically charge between $3-8K for a line replacement. There are several different methods and vary based on the situation.



Conventional excavation - trench it all the way and lay new PVC


Bursting - pull new pipe underground with hydrolics


Perma-Liner - blow resin fiberglass liner inside pipe to seal joints

Worse case scenario I had ever seen was about $22K. Major project! The customers line ran down the driveway, turned, then went about 100' down the city street before tying in at a manhole in the center of a major arterial. Required traffic revisions/planning, and tons of asphalt work.

Did they charge you for the camera? Many plumbing companies will charge very little or nothing at all to run the camera. Because they only hope to make the "big sale". Did you watch while they were running the camera? What did it look like to you? Terra Cotta Clay pipe has bell and spigot type joints about every 3'. Over time they can become seperated or offset allowing water/sewage to leak into the yard, either allowing root intrusions or offsets/low spots can catch solids eventually causing a blockage. 

Without seeing it myself it's difficult to say whether a replacemnt is necessary or not. That also somewhat depends on you. Even if you could maintain the line for another 20 years, is that what you really want to do? Replacement may give you more peace of mind knowing that; unless abused, this would most likely never happen again. On the other hand, most people don't have an extra $5, 6, 8, 10K laying around to throw at a repair like that. 

If you plan to "maintain" the line - Best bet would be to put in a clean check and an outside cleanout

If you plan to fix the line - Best bet would be to first get an unbiased opinion then do some research on reputable companies in your area. Get a few bids and go from there. 

Feel free to call me again if you'd like. If I don't answer leave a msg and I'll get back to you.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

Marieb -

Where are you located? I'm on Pacific time FYI


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## plumberinlaw (Feb 22, 2010)

Hi MarieB, Some companies go to a job just to upsale whether you need it or not. Other companies just want to fix your problem correctly. Usually there are a couple of different options depending upon budget and/or severity of the problem. The first thing I would do do in your case is to cable the line all the way to the city main then camera the entire line Looking for root intrusion, offset/broken clay line, or low spots that are creating problems or a tap at the city main that might of shifted. A lot of plumbers can make you a video of your line and will explain what they see. If your plumber can't or won't you can always fire him and find one you can work with


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

Here's a link I thought you would appreciate. Watch the video and listen to what the plumber says at the end. Sounds like what you're dealing with. 
http://www.kdvr.com/videobeta/d09185f5-c3ab-4f81-869c-30322d7821b1/News/Warning-for-home-buyers


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

OK, I can't sleep because of this whole mess. Another company did a camera to check my lines. My trap in the floor drain in the garage is now broken. Any idea how much that costs to replace? I'm getting an estimate this Thursday, but would like to get a rough idea so I'm not shocked.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

marieb said:


> OK, I can't sleep because of this whole mess. Another company did a camera to check my lines. My trap in the floor drain in the garage is now broken. Any idea how much that costs to replace? I'm getting an estimate this Thursday, but would like to get a rough idea so I'm not shocked.


If it is the fault of the guys that water blasted everything, I would be more concerned knowing it they are going to pay to fix their damages without fighting you on everything.

You need to get written documentation of the damages as well as their opinion as to it being new or old and if the water blasting could have caused it. If they recorded the video, that would be good to get a hold of as well. You know the old phrase: a picture is worth a thousand words.

and since I don't do plumbing (at least as a paid trade) can't give you much direction on the price.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

marieb said:


> OK, I can't sleep because of this whole mess. Another company did a camera to check my lines. My trap in the floor drain in the garage is now broken. Any idea how much that costs to replace? I'm getting an estimate this Thursday, but would like to get a rough idea so I'm not shocked.


Marieb -

I'm still a bit confused when you say trap in the floor drain. Are we talking about a clean out for your main line or a floor drain? Can you take a picture?

Also, was it another "plumber" or "plumbing technician" that sent a camera down the line? Did they run the camera through the main line all the way to the street? 

I think you have bigger problems than a broken trap in the floor drain. I'm guessing you did some homework about the plumbing company you have chosen after your first round. There are plenty of reputable companies out there. Unfortunately however, this sort of thing happens all the time. For a plumber that doesn't do big excavation work, to come in and say you have a broken trap under a floor drain, is an easy way to turn a camera job into a 8, 12, 14 hundred dollar job. Jack hammer the floor, replace the trap and drain, repair the concrete, collect a check, and hit the road. 

What city are you in?


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for responding.

It was a highly reputable "commercial" company. The plumber was a master plumber and very professional. He put the camera down the floor drain in the garage.....after first cleaning out good size pieces of broken something/pipe. Yes, he did run the camera all the way to the street. He even ran the camera from the floor drain in the laundry room. He spent a lot of time running water and following its path with the camera as well.

I called the company back that causedthis whole mess. I explained the situation and asked if the bill should be sent to them or should I pay and then get reimbursed? They said they would have to call me back.

Pittsburgh


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm guessing you were watching over his shoulder. So what did it look like to you? What was his proposal?

As far as the initial plumbing company goes, you probably won't get any money from them unless you go to court.


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

Yep, I was watching. Everything looked pretty smooth, open and clear. I was also able to see where things broke apart. 

I've since heard/read horror stories about the company that did the damage. I'm not alone. I'll be getting legal advice tomorrow. Something needs to be done. They cannot continue to do business this way. It's just wrong. They are so dishonest...trying to sell me a repair I didn't need for $30,000.00!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just learned last night that they set an apartment on fire using a blow torch to try to melt a frozen pipe (during the winter).

Anyway I'm still waiting for the insurance company to approve the fee for the painter. They approved the painting of two rooms, but now I have to wait if the price is acceptable. Oh, such a mess : (


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

I know what you're going through. Unfortunately I've seen it all too often. So speaking of that $30K repair, you should call them back, pretend like you've reconsidered, and have them write up a bid for you, what all the 30K entails, etc. That much more ammo you'll have when you go to court.


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## LateralConcepts (Jun 6, 2010)

> I was also able to see where things broke apart.


You mentioned the rest was "smooth, open, and clear". Does it look like you could maintain it? And did the broken part look very severe to you? Did they record it and give you a copy?


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## marieb (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm pretty sure they know any future business is NOT happening. As far as the sewer line goes....it looks in great shape, with the exception of the broken trap. It was obvious that it needs replaced. There are pieces missing from the breakage.


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## superjet (Jan 9, 2011)

*Hydro jetting specialist*

Just a few tips about hydro jetting for the problems mentioned. We specialize in Hydro jetting for the past 10 years. There are a hundred variables that can cause various issues. A pro at hydro jetting anticipates this. Anyone who owns any type of hydro jetting machine is going to tell you that he is a pro at it and has the best machine for the job, after all they want the job. Don't believe it. There is a huge difference between a plumber that hydro jets once in a blue moon with a substandard machine and a company that specializes in hydro jetting alone using the proper equipment.
If the floor drain was the only drain with issues, then the tech went through the proper drain. The next step would be the nearest available clean/out. When we hydro jet, we alway ask the homeowner to check and listen signs of any trouble while we are jetting if we don't have a second tech on site. It is not uncommon for water to spray out of downstream drains as you jet depending on the way the lines are plumbed. A gallon can of paint or something similar on top of the drains keeps everything off the walls and ceilings.
The fact that a great deal of sand/debris was brought up out of the drains tells you that either sand and dirt have been pushed down the drain over time by washdown or that there is the possibility that there is broken pipe under the ground.
You can't use a cable machine to remove dirt or sand out of a line. The only option at that point is to hydro jet. The difference is that a skilled tech can usually tell pretty quickly if the line is broken or just impacted with dirt. There is definitely a "feel" to the way the hose travels through the pipe. It is a tricky situation because with broken pipe, it is very easy to get stuck in the line requiring a dig.
The fact that the plumber ran out of there fast tells you that he expects to be sued for damages. 
They should have been able to tell you if the line is broken or just impacted with debris. He should have been able to tell you if all is well now or needs followup becuase the line may be broken. The rub or downside is that it is crucial to try and deal with reputable vendors that come with a pedigree because it is really easy to say that the line is broken and needs a $2,000 dig when it may not or they may not be skilled enough to truly know the difference.
You may not be able to get a camera through the trap on that drain. Usually 2 inch is hit and miss and if it smaller or older with corrosion it wont go. Ridgid makes a new very small sewer inspection camera that may make it but many contractors may not have it yet. We have tips of questions to ask and how to get your moneys worth on our blog and our website. Search for Superjet sewer and drain cleaning and superjetdrains all one word. There are some great stories on our blog. If anyone needs specific help, email us and we will do what we can to answer any questions. Superjetdrains


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

You deleted


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