# cabinet refinishing



## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Correction, it’s Benjamin Moore “advanced” the color he wants is a light
beige/gray tint...any suggestions appreciated, Is BM the best paint for
the cabinets.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

Advance is a good paint grade material to refinish cabinets with.
Clean with dirtex, scuff sand 150, remove dust, prime with oil or BIN primer. 2 coats advance. Then let them cure a few days in a climate controlled area before installed.


Frames can be brushed/rolled in this product. Spraying depends on the equipment being used.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> they said, it’s not good to fill in the oak wood because wood moves.



If you just fill the grain there should be no issues. You do not want to caulk the panel to the stiles.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Just my opinion.

I would steel wool

Tack rag several times

Then two coats of paint


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Steel wool is ok but if you use latex paint and there are any leftover bits of steel wool on the substrate it will rust.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks gentlemen for the information.
I relayed it to my son, and he said, what is your
opinion on filling in the oak. He realizes that it a lot
more work, ( he said, from his research it takes a few swipes
of the filler with sanding in between each application)
but will it be a better
finished product; or is it just a personal preference? 

As you can see from the pics, there are not a lot of
the characteristic cathedrals that oak has.

thanks...


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While I don't often paint finished oak I like to fill the grain when I do. IMO it makes for a nicer looking paint job. I usually only apply 1 coat of filler and then sand it all off when dry - leaving the filler just in the grain.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks, Mark.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I emailed my so this morning with your recommendation and got 
back this response...

“Maybe that's a good compromise. I'll do one coat of grain filler and then whatever grain shows through, so be it. Thank the pros for me, please.”

So, thank you guys for the help...when it’s finished I’ll post pics of course.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

A hint of grain helps to retain the wood look. If you completely filled the grain it would look more like metal or formica.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I’ll relay that to him, I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear this, Mark.

Also, cocomonkey he was thinking of brushing the paint on the molding,
and your suggestion sealed it :thumbsup:


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

ron45 said:


> Just my opinion.
> 
> I would steel wool
> 
> ...


You need a stain blocking bonding primer before paint. And like Mark said, real steel wool is not a good idea. Maroon or green scruffy pads do the same thing, and dont leave little particles to rust.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

woodco said:


> You need a stain blocking bonding primer before paint. And like Mark said, real steel wool is not a good idea. Maroon or green scruffy pads do the same thing, and dont leave little particles to rust.


That's a lot BS.

No primer is needed when a surface still has finish on it.

Cleaning the surface, wiping it down or vacuuming, then tack ragging the surface has never left steel wool on any surface I have ever done. 

There's no way that stain is going to liquefy
The paint is to cover over not blend in.

Steel wool is the best idea because those pads will not be able to form to all the surfaces.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While I agree a stain blocking primer probably isn't needed over prefinished wood, you still need a primer to insure good adhesion. 1 coat of primer plus 2 coats of finish is the norm when painting over poly/varnish/


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Mark, first the grain filler, right?
I emailed my son last night and asked “how it’s 
going” ... he said, this weekend he got all 28 doors
and 16 drawers sanded and so far 7 of them grain filled.

He also said, it’s a lot of work. 
He does have some concern that it could like a hack job...

But, everything he’s done ( DIY) in his house came out 
great, so I don’t know what his concern is.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've always filled the grain first. As long as he sands off all the filler leaving just what's in the grain it should look fine. 

There is a reason they call it sweat equity:wink2:


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He just sent me this pic of the one door that he filled and is
working on sanding it. Does this look right?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Looks good. I would take a knife and scrape out the excess filler where the panel meets the stiles.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

ron45 said:


> That's a lot BS.
> 
> No primer is needed when a surface still has finish on it.



I bet after the first time you have stain bleed through your top coat would never say that again. Better hope it never happens on a big cabinet job too.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, he called me and said, he’s happy so far..
it took him all day to sand all the doors and drawers...

...and he said that he thinks it took about an hour
to fill the door...45 minutes drying time and about 15 minutes to sand and tack
clean. 

He has a big table outside so he’ll spread out and be able to fill and sand 
several at a time...He also said, he’s going to make a drying rack in the 
garage to dry them after he paints them...

He emailed me the two colors they picked out ... I like the one on the left
smokey Taupe...


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I asked my son about the learning curve ..re: sprayer and he said,

“It takes some getting used to. You have to get the right nozzle, set the pressure right,
keep a good distance from the wood, spray at the right speed, and go at the right pattern. 
It worked well in my bathroom. We'll see how the cabinets go. The over spray is a pain. 
You really have to mask everything off.“

He’ll spray the doors and drawers in the garage surrounded by sheets, but
the frames going to be a job.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While I often take the doors and draw fronts to a remote location to spray them I seldom spray anything inside a finished house. Usually brushing [or even rolling] the rest of the cabinet looks fine. Once the doors are reinstalled the frame isn't very visible.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks Mark, I emailed him what you said. Waiting to hear his response.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Guy’s he just emailed me...all the doors and drawers are filled, and sanded to heck and back....
:biggrin2: and now he’s 
spraying the primer...he asked me your opinion, two coats of primer or is one sufficiet? 

Also, he said he’ll just spray the sides of the cabs and the Island...
the rest he’ll paint...
He built the frame to hold the doors and drawers and has it in a empty
bedroom ( dust free)

So, one or two coats of primer?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

As long as it's all coated with primer there is no need for a 2nd coat. It doesn't matter if you can kind of see thru the primer. When painting cabinets [or any previously stained wood] I normally apply 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of finish, sanding lightly between coats.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

No primer needed just two coats of paint.

Primer is for bare metal.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

You normally want/need primer when painting over any poly type finish.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks very much Mark...i emailed him what you said, I’m sure he’ll
be happy with the one coat. The sanding is a pain. He’s sanding outside under
his deck Lani, and painting in the garage and drying in the spare bedroom,
and there is a big table in the family room with tools on it...and of course
the kitchen is a disaster.
You can imagine the mess his place looks like. My daughter-in-law is a saint.

Ron, he has already gave it one coat of primer ( see pic of spraying in garage)
his question was - is one coat of primer enough. 

This job would have been so much harder without the paint sprayer.

I’ll keep you updated on the progress...

thank you again Mark, your advise and help took the
worry out of the project...as I said before, he was
concerned that it would look like a hack job.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The sanding from here on out should just be a light hand sanding. All he needs to do is sand enough to remove any boogers or fuzz ... and promote good adhesion for the next coat.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

What’s the popcorn for? :smile:

Well, he’s working on sanding the frames and the Island now..
He sent me before and after pics of the Island. 
After the frames and Island are filled and primed, he’ll start
the Painting.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Forgot the pics...I noticed that the kitchen chair is out from the
table in the exact spot in both pics. :smile:


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Two Knots said:


> What’s the popcorn for? :smile:


lol, i saw that coming.

there is a smillie eating popcorn, we don't have it here.

you go to the movies and eat popcorn while watching the movie, and have nothing to say, but your there watching. so, it is a way to subscribe to the thread without saying anything.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Once he gets the frames sanded and primed, they have to make
a decision on the color...I found this blog this morning and emailed
it to them...He was leaning towards Revere pewter, I think.
Picking the color is the hardest part...
Here’s the link.
https://www.evolutionofstyleblog.com/my-favorite-non-white-kitchen-cabinet-paint-colors/

and here’s another idea...painting the Island a deeper grey than the cabs.
(this pic is included in the link) I realize that with his brownish counters and
the black counter on the Island it changes things - as far as the color might not
be as dramatic, or maybe it will? I donno...

so Mark, any experience with grey painted cabinets? I’m not good at colors, so any help is appreciated.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The grey on that island is either stained wood or a faux grain finish.


Picking the wrong color isn't a real big deal. The hardest part is already done. If he picks a color and then decides they don't like it - it's not a big deal to change colors.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Mark, after painting, what is the curing time before - hanging
the doors band drawers. I read on a blog 2 to 4 weeks. That sounds 
crazy.
Faux gray finish, interesting.
I also suggested he paint the stools to match the Island, and I have
a cream colored leather for the stool seats - that I can give them.o


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Different paints have different cure times although the paint doesn't need to be completely cured before you hang the doors. 72 hrs should be plenty of time.[I have went with less] The full cure time is more of a concern where it comes to washing/scrubbing the paint.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks Mark, I think he should go darker than revere Pewter
maybe this ( see pic) or a little lighter...I think Revere Pewter is a 
little too light with the white floor, plus it’s a very light kitchen
with a six foot window over the sink, and a skylight..
But, what do I know?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

Two Knots said:


> Mark, after painting, what is the curing time before - hanging
> the doors band drawers. I read on a blog 2 to 4 weeks. That sounds
> crazy.
> Faux gray finish, interesting.
> ...



3 days or so with advance is normal. Full cure is 2-3 weeks. Just make sure you keep them in a climate controlled area with plenty of airflow.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

hmmm. He’s drying them in a spare bedroom. ( pictured) 
The room has two windows and he can shut off the air and keep
the windows open. I’ll relay this to him, thanks coco.

So, to review after three days he can begin to hang them.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

Two Knots said:


> hmmm. He’s drying them in a spare bedroom. ( pictured)
> The room has two windows and he can shut off the air and keep
> the windows open. I’ll relay this to him, thanks coco.
> 
> So, to review after three days he can begin to hang them.



just put a small fan in the room and keep the humidity down (don't shut the door)


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

So leave the air on, shut the windows and have a small fan...
ok, I got it...

Also, this is the pic I sent him of a grey color, ( I forgot to put it on the other post) 
Picking paint is hard to do ( for him and for me) when he painted his master bath, 
the grey paint turned out to be 
greenish and he wasn’t happy with the color...But, after five months
of doing this bathroom his wife had enough, and said, it’s staying!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

Two Knots said:


> So leave the air on, shut the windows and have a small fan...
> ok, I got it...
> 
> Also, this is the pic I sent him of a grey color, ( I forgot to put it on the other post)
> ...



check out af-685 thunder


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks Coco...that is nice, I sent it to him...It may be a good
color for the Island.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Last night he sanded the primed doors and said he sanded off 
some of the primer, so he’s going to give the front of the doors/drawers 
a second coat of primer.

The primer filled in the grain a lot, so with the second coat of primer he’s 
hoping that he’ll get a real smooth finish on the cabs.

The room where he is drying the doors/drawers is climate controlled, 
after he paints then he’ll put a fan in the room...thanks for the fan tip. :smile:


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

He's probably sanding harder than he needs to.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes,Mark, I asked him about that, and he said that he knows, 
but he said that the primer is doing a great job filling in the grain.

He thinks the doors will be very smooth when he’s done. 
As long as he dosen’t mind the extra layer of work, it’s ok, I guess.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He emailed me that he put the second coat of primer on yesterday morning
and may actually paint them tomorrow.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Update...they finally picked a color Smokey Taupe
https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/983/smokey-taupe?color=983 
I think it will look very nice. 

The frames are all sanded, he’s plan is to prime the frames this weekend
while the doors/drawers are drying.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Two Knots said:


> He emailed me that he put the second coat of primer on yesterday morning
> and may actually paint them tomorrow.


I think your son and I are about neck and neck with the cabinet painting. I applied the second coat of primer this morning after sanding yesterday evening. I just walked in the house about 10 minutes ago after applying a bead of paintable silicone caulk where the stiles and rails meet the panels, as there was a gap on some of the doors. I figure since the caulk is silicone it'll provide some movement if / when the panel expands or contracts from changes in humidity. 

I've been drying the doors on the floor of the detached garage (covered with a plastic sheet). Not the ideal situation as it's not climate controlled and was probably 100 degrees out there yesterday. The drying tree that your son is using is brilliant. I wish I would have thought about getting something like that before I started the priming. 

I chose Cabinet Coat paint and ordered it from the Benjamin Moore dealer. Should be in stock early next week. The color is similar to the one your son chose, maybe a bit lighter though. Hope both of our cabinet painting jobs look good when we're finished.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, I hope they both come out good. He painted the back of the doors
today and hopes to paint the fronts tomorrow. He said that he got about 1/3
of the frames primed today. 
Yes, the drying frame was clever, I was astonished :biggrin2:

Cabinet coat is the color? He said he didn’t want to go too light 
cause of the white floor.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Cabinet Coat is the brand, also sold by Benjamin Moore dealers. It's supposed to be really good, similar to the BM Advance paints. A few of the painters on this forum recommended it so I got it as I trust their judgement.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He sent me two more pics yesterday...he got all the frames primed
except for around the fridge. 

All the doors are painted and drying. He’s going to sand and prime the
frames ‘one more time’, and also sand and paint the doors ‘one more time’
for extra protection.
Also, the backs of the doors were not filled...he’s very happy that 
he filled the fronts, although he said that the fronts didn’t have as much
grain as the backs of the doors. Anyhow, the difference is remarkable.

The Island is going to be colbolt blue. They’re not to sure of the 
blue Island, but they think it will give the kitchen some much needed 
color...He can always repaint it. 

I asked him if he has a fan in the room with the doors...He said, yes I 
have a fan in the room! :biggrin2:

I asked for more pics.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, I can’t believe he sent more pics already...
He’s going to get rid of that tract light and put in high hats.
I think they are going with Revere Pewter for the walls.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Update...the fridge bothered me. I think it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Ever since I told him that - he’s been thinking how to put molding
up there. I emailed him and suggested that he frames it out with wood
then molding on top.

He said, send me a drawing. I sent him a quick drawing and he called 
immediately and said, Mom, you solved my problem. :biggrin2:

He’s going to do the bigger 3 1/2” molding that he used over the micro.
Currently there is 11 1/2” from the top of the fridge to the ceiling.

Here’s the fridge and micro pic again, and my drawing.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He emailed me Island pics today. This is the first coat of paint.
I didn’t think that I was going to like the color, but I do like it.

He has to give the inside of all the cabinets
another sanding, and then another coat of paint.

He has to order the european hinges on line, and do the molding over
the fridge.

They are looking forward to having a working kitchen again.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Forgot to add this one. This is the color. It looks lighter on the cabinets
than on the swatch...I imagine it is because he has such a light kitchen.
Southern exposure, big window, and skylights.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

I like the color of the island too. 

I'm not going through the trouble of painting the inside of the cabinets though, as they are dark brown and won't look bad with the new painted doors. My chosen color is Benjamin Moore Hilton Head Cream. It looks quite a bit more orangy on my monitor compared to the paint chip or the actual painted doors.

I hate looking at paint colors. I keep seeing new ones that I like and end up doubting my choice of paint color. Now I'm thinking that smokey taupe would have been a nice color for my cabinets too (plus about four or five other colors I've seen in the last couple of weeks).


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> He has to give the inside of all the cabinets
> another sanding, and then another coat of paint.



Other than an odd repair I think it's been 40+ yrs since I've painted the inside of cabinets. I used to have some customers that wanted the shelves painted red. They claimed it cut down on bugs - fact or myth, I have no idea.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Oh Mark, I meant the inside of the doors, not the cabinets.
I hadn’t realized that I said cabinets...Can you imagine what
the kitchen would look like with everything out of the cabinets.
Also, I just noticed that there are no inside shelves on the bottom
cabs.
Dave, I like the warm creamy color you picked.The hardest part
is picking colors, for me anyhow. It always looks different from the chip.
Once, I painted my kitchen red Five Times. I couldn’t get it right.


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

woodco said:


> You need a stain blocking bonding primer before paint. And like Mark said, real steel wool is not a good idea. Maroon or green scruffy pads do the same thing, and dont leave little particles to rust.


I'm going to be painting some oak veneer cabinets. Would Stix primer work? It's bonding but not sure about stain-blocking.

Last time I painted cabinets I used RustOleum Bonding Spray Primer. It worked really well, but the original finish was glossy paint, not wood veneer. It would be much easier to use spray primer again if I can get away with it, but I'm not sure about whether the RustOleum will prevent bleed-through.



Two Knots said:


> Mark, after painting, what is the curing time before - hanging
> the doors band drawers. I read on a blog 2 to 4 weeks. That sounds
> crazy.
> Faux gray finish, interesting.
> ...





mark sr said:


> Different paints have different cure times although the paint doesn't need to be completely cured before you hang the doors. 72 hrs should be plenty of time.[I have went with less] The full cure time is more of a concern where it comes to washing/scrubbing the paint.


I had to wait about 4 weeks - but that's because it was summer and therefore very humid, and humidity HUGELY increases the drying time of Advance. I should have cleared out a space in an air conditioned room for the cabinets to dry, but didn't want the paint smell in the house. Big mistake - the odor was minimal, but the drying time was ridiculous.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

snic, I hope you can get the answers you need for your project.
I can tell you the drying rack made things a lot easier as far as being
able to dry the doors in the house.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, more pics of the fridge...I think it came out good, looks
built in, before it stuck out...He also put the side walls in. He just has the 
priming and painting around the fridge to do...

He had a hard time finding the Euro hinges that worked - in the big box stores.
He finally ordered a pkg of 20 from Amazon, to see if they would work, and
they did.

Anyhow, here’s the fridge pic’s...I can get only one pic to load?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Another try...This is the knobs and draw pulls that they narrowed it down to.

There’s 25 and 15 in a pkg. He needs 28 cabinet knobs and 16 draw pulls,
isn’t that the way...


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

The fridge looks great. Looks like it was built in. Nice work.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He’s going around and around with the hinges...ordered hinges
three times so far and had to send them back...
I got this email today...

“I had a setback with the door hinges. The hinges I bought worked, but when the door is open the door does not go past the cabinet's face frame. Some of my cabinets have slide out shelves which cannot slide out because they are hitting the door. I ordered new hinges, but they have not come in yet.”

On a positive note he ordered the Pendent lights for over the Island,
and the wall sconces (3) for over the window they pretty much narrowed
it down to the final choice... he has a lot of electrical work ahead.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Just got this...The only thing left is a second coat of paint around
the fridge, and all the cabinets are done...the hinges were a challenge
because of the clearance needed for the sliding shelves.

Next he’s going to work on the electric...the track lighting is coming
down and he’s going to put 3 lights over the window, and two pendent lights 
over the Island..
In the breakfast room he has three high hats, he wants to put a hanging light over the table instead...
They’ll be a lot of sheetrock removal and drilling through 
beams for the new lights. 

The first thing he did was remove the micro on Aug 4th - and pushed it out and 
installed all the crown molding. I think he made a lot of progress in a short
time.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Looks like he does really good work.

I would do something like this beside that great looking frig.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, he doesn’t need it cause he has a big walk in pantry with shelves
all around in his kitchen...

That’s a clever idea, he should have a 3” high back board on the back 
side of all those shelves to prevent stuff from falling off.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, problem with the lighting...He removed the track lighting.
First he emailed me with a pic saying that there looks like there’s a 
stud in the middle of the center window so he’ll have to put 4 lights instead of
3 ...It didn’t look like three was enough for the nine foot span between 
the cabinets anyhow...There would be one light over each end window
and two lights over the center window...

Then he emailed me again with this..,
“It looks like the problem is not studs. I think above the window they must have used a 2x10 across the span of the window. Looks like scones are not going to work. I am going to have to go with some sort of lighting that doesn't have wiring running behind the wall.”
Any thoughts on this?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I put up the wrong pic...This is the one showing the square pieces of duct tape 
where he wants the lights...
Now I’m thinking he had electric to the tract light already, right.
so, what if he boxed out a 1 X 3 board across the nine span
and attached the wiring behind it? Is that nuts? Tell me before I email him
with my idea. 

this is the pic that he sent me last.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

The electric comes in from the track lighting on the end ( see Pic)
right? So, if he mounted all the sconces to a board then he could wire 
all the sconces in the same electric supply on the end,
couldn’t he?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Two Knots said:


> so, what if he boxed out a 1 X 3 board across the nine span
> and attached the wiring behind it? Is that nuts?


that is exactly what i was thinking.

edit = its not nuts.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Really, I’m so glad.
I haven’t heard from him yet, maybe I’ll call him. I anxious to
know if he thinks it’s a good idea.
When I enlarge the photo - I see where
the electric feed is on the left side...It looks too high, but I guess he can
lower it.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

its a good idea. now, whether or not he likes it = nuther story. 

idk if its code/safe, or if he would care. but he could just put the wire in the drywall aand mud over it. 

there are many ways to do it, just depends on what he likes.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, I called him and he said, he thinks it would look funky. :sad:
He’s very disappointed, and said you never know what you’re going to
run into when you do these projects.

So, I came up with another idea...To take down the molding
on top of the window and put a big mantle there like we did
over our tv...I made a drawing (the sizing of the wood
can be adjusted.) I had a hard time explaining it, so I took a pic
of our tv mantle ( which is 8” deep) He could make his just deep
enough to cover the electric boxes behind the sconces ( 3-3 1/2”deep)
..and also make brackets to give it definition. 

He’s got a couple of meetings scheduled, so I won’t know what he thinks
about my latest brainstorm for awhile.
In the mean time here it is....

edit: I know it’s doable, but will it look good? I enclosed the window pic again.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

maybe he didn't grasp the idea. done correctly it would hardly, if ever, be noticed, as it would look like part of the wall.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

btw= your mantel looks GREAT !


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks fix...He said he thinks it would look funky ( the run of wood) cause 
it has to stick out enough to be able to house the electric box behind the sconces...
He hasn’t gotten the sconces yet, so he’s not sure how deep it is.

He emailed me and said it looks like it’s a possibility ( the latest idea with
the mantle) Later on he emailed me again, and said should he leave the
top piece of molding on cause in the drawing it looks like it was removed.

At first I said to remove the molding...then I said leave the molding up
and build the mantle on top of it...I think that would look better...
I haven’t heard from him yet, if he gave it any more thought.

These are the three sconces he ordered.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

After I emailed him changing - the mantle to go top of the molding,
I didn’t hear from him... so, I emailed him again and said, “did you 
get my last email? ...and I got back this 

“Yes, I think it's a good idea. I haven't had a chance to "mock it up" yet. LOL”

:biggrin2:


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

idk if there is a misunderstanding, but i didn't mean a piece of wood. my idea was to put thin furring strips for the wires, then drywall over it. 

that light is really nice, really. care to tell where it came from ?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

btw. i'm pretty sure there doesn't need to be box's in there, as the light itself would be the box.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Fix'n it said:


> btw. i'm pretty sure there doesn't need to be box's in there, as the light itself would be the box.


Interesting that the light could be in the box- that would be great,
then it won’t stick out so far. :smile:

Yes, I know what you meant ...I suggested that to him, he didn’t like the idea
of the sheetrocking, cause it would stick out too far over the window.

edit...the sconces are from Lamps Plus.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

1" is to far ? and he could even use 1/4" drywall for 3/4" .

ask the electrical guys. but years ago they told me to do just that. the light itself is the junction box.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

That’s when he thought that he needed at least 3” for the box behind
the light. Even if it only needs 1”...I still think he doesn’t want to go
the sheetrock route. I will ask him again.

Edit...Correction on the lights he got them at Wayfair.
Amazon has them as well.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I tried to edit the above post but ran out of time.

He got the sconces and emailed me a pic...
If he wants these lights he’ll have to gives my idea some
serious thought. :smile:

He also plans to do strip lighting over the cabinets.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> the light itself is the junction box.



I'm pretty sure that is dependent on what type of light fixture it is.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Correction, The pic he sent me was for electrical box for the wiring.
When he sent me the pic - I thought he got the sconces. The sconces
are suppose to come today.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Advice needed...I just got this...

I was lookiing at what wood Lowes caries. I was going to buy poplar boards for the mantle, but they did not have 12 foot boards in poplar that are more than 6 inch wide. Lowes has 12 foot boards of 1x10 in "premium pine". There are no knots and the boards look good. I don't know how the pine will stand up over time. What do your people think? I don't know what HD has. When you're looking at wide 12 foot boards, choices are limited.

what do my people think? LOL

He plans on ripping down the wood to 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 “ whatever it takes to
accommodate the lights...he also ordered another light today...I think 4 lights
would look better on the 9 foot span...he’ll space two in the middle window.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

The Lowes in my area doesn't have a very good selection of wood. I prefer Menards and usually look for the Mastercraft branded wood. Bought all of the material for the kitchen cabinet doors from Menards, minus the hardware. 

I'm planning on framing the bathroom mirror and went to Lowes and found that they didn't even carry any oak. The Home Depot is kind of disorganized compared to the Menards too.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

We don’t have menards here...only HD and Lowes...
What do you think about the painted pine ( f he can’t get poplar?

anybody else have an opinion? He’s trying to avoid having to join the 
wood...he wants to finish this mantle this weekend . But, he’ll join the poplar 
if it’s necessary.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Pine should be fine, it's not like wood in that location will see any wear.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I was confused on the sconces...the pendants came in and he installed them...
the sconces didn’t come in and are on back order until November...
so he needs to pick out other sconces....He got the wood for the mantle, but don’t know when he can do it...he needs the sconces first anyhow...

Here are today’s pics...I suggested he paints the area around the skylights
the same as the wall cover and paint the rest of the ceiling white.
What do you think? I think it would make it dramatic. 

He’s very happy with the finish on the cabs...I haven’t seen it yet, but looking 
at the photos they look brand new.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

His cabinets came out similar to mine in color. Very nice.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Very nice Dave, you did good on choosing the color and a good job on the 
cabinet built and style. You did well in your hardware choice too.

I love the shaker style cabinets, they are timeless. They’ll always be in style,
Simple, yet elegant. That is the style we decided on when we made our kitchen cabinets about fourteen years ago.

I like the creamy walls too and the tiles on the backsplash. Your wife must be delighted especially if you went from dark cabinets to light.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Yesterday, I asked him when was he going to do the mantle...He said that he didn’t know, he’ll have to fit the time in - cause his wife doesn’t want him working on the kitchen all the time. I said, what!!! :surprise: He said, she’s not like me I would have him working on it 24/7! She’s not in a hurry...
Well, I just this...
The lights are in!! Ha...I knew he would do it today.

...and these are the lights he ordered...in brushed nickel.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He started the painting this weekend...he didn’t want a light color
cause the kitchen is so bright.
He won’t get to finish it until next weekend. It looks darker over
the cabinets because the cabinets cast a shadow...on the opposite 
wall it looks lighter.

Remember, I said that all his bottom cabinets don’t have any shelves? Well, they had pull out shelves, which he temporarily removed during finishing...and that’s why he had such a hard time fitting new hinges cause the shelves hit the hinges.
Finally, on the third order of new hinges it worked out.


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## Nickd83 (Feb 5, 2020)

I see it's too late for this, but the pancake box is just what you need if you have clearance issues. 1/2" deep so fits right in the sheetrock on top of a stud.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-Drawn-Round-Ceiling-Pan-8293/100574367


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

The area above the window has a 2x12 running across it (under the sheetrock) Even if he used the 
pancake box you suggested, how would he get the wires through the wall...
I think he would still have to frame it out and redo the sheetrock, as fix’n’it
suggested.

I’m planning on this mantle thing looking dynamic ( since it was my idea :biggrin2 once the lights and crown molding are installed. I think it ties 
in nicely with the larger crown molding over the micro and fridge.
It certainly won’t be boring. :smile:

It sticks out from the wall exactly 2 3/4”... I originally thought It would 
be further out. I was presently surprised. He had to cut the cabinet molding on each side of the wood mantle the 2 3/4” 
The Japanese saw came in handy for this. :smile:
Thanks for your input, Nick.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, I had trouble processing this...
He emailed me this: the crown has a top and bottom.
the plate on the sconce has a top and bottom.
the bottom of the molding will be 1” from the top of
the sconce plate...
well, I was confused, so I emailed him a drawing A or B
and asked A or B, he said, B and emailed the pic with the light.
The pic of the molding is from two days ago.

So, it looks to me that he added a 1” piece of wood to
the top on the 1x10 ( to attach the crown molding to)
the bottom of the 1 x 10 is the existing window molding. 
I’m still a bit confused :sad:
Besides the 1” piece it looks like he put a little detail strip
under the 1” piece of wood?

The wood only has one coat of paint, so far.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

He emailed me this...and said, “like this.”

Since I’m a visual person, this I can understand.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Mantel with one coat of paint...I think it looks awesome, better than just
putting up the lights on the wall.
Tomorrow it will get a second coat of
paint. The walls all have one coat of grey, tomorrow another coat, and then the ceiling. He ordered
a solar shade for the window...In the eating area there is a sliding door, he needs a shade for the door..Over the kitchen table he has three high hats,
He’s going to remove them and hang a chandlier.
I asked when is he going to clean up the mess? He said soon!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Looks good!
That clutter is normal for some of our kids :sad:


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Love that kitchen. The double skylights and the window overlooking the yard. It's coming together nicely.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Just got these...He put up the lights and the solar shade that he ordered on line.
The shade is motorized with a remote control. I was worried when he said he ordered a grey shade that it would be too dark, but I think its perfect.
He should order a matching one for the sliding door in the eating area.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

The lights look great. Also like the shade over the window. The gray color even matches the cabinets. Nicely done.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

ok, I think it’s the last of them...everything is done except for the kitchen set ( more about 
that later) He changed out all the outlets today...he’s going to put the drying rack on Graigs list for a give away for anyone that wants to paint their kitchen cabinets. 
The first pic is without the lights lit. He put strip lighting above and below the cabinets.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

^^^^^do you recognize this kitchen cleaned up! LOL








The question I have is...he’s thinking of painting his kitchen set,
in a dark slate grey...how do you protect the top of a painted table from scratches?


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

I really like the look of the under cabinet lights and the new lights over the window. The whole project turned out great.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thank you Dave...I told him the light mantle over the window is the focal point of the entire
kitchen, and the built in look of the fridge too. LOL ... Both were my ideas! I told him, “mother knows best.”
I think he should repaint the Island to match the kitchen set...He said, he’s not Re-Painting
anything! So, my question is still open, how do you go about painting the table top?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i think he should repaint to cabinets to match the island. but it does look good for a white kitchen.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Wow, that's a kitchen to be proud of!!!


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thank you, Gymshu.


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