# New Drywall Installation, 1 joint screws are popping



## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

I just put 5/8 sheetrock up on the ceiling in a bathroom I am remodling on 24" centers. I am getting close to taping and went back and looked at it after it sat a few weeeks and one side of one joint seems to have buldged out the screws a bit. I have 18" of blown in insulation above it but was very careful not to get any in between the joists and the new drywall. I put extra screws in (almost 4-5" spacing). Anyone have any suggestions on how to fix it? Does the piece need to come down and be replaced or can it be fixed hopefully? The bathroom is 10'x10' but only about 5 feet of one piece seems to have this problem. I added more screws in so have screws about every 2" through this area now. After the new screws were in I could here the sheetrock moving (not cracking per say) but making noise. Any ideas?


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Sounds like there might have been some unseen damage to the sheetrock in that area. Probably need to remove it an re-hang a new piece. 

24" centers is pretty far apart, so having good solid sheetrock is critical. 

Be careful that the screws aren't being overdriven. If they break the paper face of the rock, they're of no value.


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

*thanks*

Most of the screws did not break the paper but just buldged out around the screw head. Two other things came to mind. House is in Minnesota and we have recently had -15 degrees F days. I do remember this piece being a very snug fit in this area when I installed it. Could that have something to do with it as well? 

I am guessing there is no good repair to the existing piece now?


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

The drywall is bulging around the screw heads? Did you use a drywall dimple bit or just a regular screwdriver bit? 

Can you post a picture?

I doubt this is weather related.


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

just a regular bit. This was actually the most complicated piece I have ever put up. After messing around in the attic for the electrical, the insulation had sagged some so I had to preset almost all of the outside screws on the sheet before driving them all the way in. So I basically slowly brough the sheet up with the screws to prevent snapping the drywall or popping the screws out. Again, when I left it a month ago it all looked good. Now there are noticable bulges around the screws. I will post some pictures tonight...


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

A proper drywall bit would have been helpful, as it releases itself from the screw at the right time and does not overdrive the screw. If your drywall was tight, that may well be the cause of the problem. Next time, you could try to put the screws in pairs, that is to say two screws about 1 1/2" apart on about 8" centers. I expect you have used the water resistant drywall, since this is a bathroom.
I think I might be inclined to remove it and start over, drywall is cheap.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

zjowens said:


> just a regular bit. This was actually the most complicated piece I have ever put up. After messing around in the attic for the electrical, the insulation had sagged some so I had to preset almost all of the outside screws on the sheet before driving them all the way in. So I basically slowly brough the sheet up with the screws to prevent snapping the drywall or popping the screws out. Again, when I left it a month ago it all looked good. Now there are noticable bulges around the screws. I will post some pictures tonight...


The bulges are from the paper around the screws giving way, and the sheet is starting to come back down again. You may have to locate the joists on either side of that seam, draw out an area. Then cut the sheet back to the next joist on either side. Replace the area with new sheetrock, and this time use a drywall screw gun, or a drywall attachment on the drill.

Additionally, before you install the new section of sheetrock, check to see if that joist is flush and even with the surrounding joists (use a straight edge). If not, you may have to shim it to align with the others. That would help reduce the chances of the new screws popping thru.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Another thought just came to mind after reading the previous post. Since your joists are on 24" centers, perhaps it would be worth it to strap the ceiling on 16" centers. You could shim the strapping so it was even without too much difficulty. Just a thought.


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## Wethead (Oct 30, 2008)

Its sounds like your going to have to just replace that board for sure, I men I would,


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the comments. Did not get a chance to post pictures yesterday, will do it tonight. Sounds like the problem is the board is coming down though. With this being a difficult piece to replace with multiple cutouts and the wall board already up, what do you guys think of this solution - Go up in the attic and screw a 2x4 into the existing joist next to the edge that is starting to fail. Drive a new line of screws into the sheetrock 1" farther in from the original line of screws.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Well, I guess if replacement is not practical, then sistering the ceiling joist might well be a viable alternative. I think you will have to screw the sister boards on to the existing joists, because if you try to nail them, the movement of the joists when you smack the nails in will only do more damage. One advantage of the sistering which you suggest, is that the new boards can just lay completely flush with the top of your drywall. Can I suggest that you get very straight boards to do the sistering with. That way you will get a nice flat ceiling. It might even pay you to take a few minutes and run some boards through your tablesaw. I expect you know the trick of temporarily tacking a strip of plywood onto a board to get a straight cut? If not, just ask.


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## Rocket Ron (Dec 15, 2008)

Did you glue the drywall before screwing it?


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Carefully take down the suspect sheet of drywall. Then lay it down on a new sheet of drywall and trace out all of the cutouts. Recut. Re-evaluate the framing and insulation. Make adjustments as needed. Install new sheet of drywall.:yes:


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

*pictures*

Here are some pictures. This was a weird joint to begin with. I have 1/2" green board above the tub with extra support and the white board is 5/8". You can see that the green board is fine but the white is where I am haveing the issue. Again, when I put it up, the screws on the white board looked like the ones on the green board. In the third picture you can see the end of each board and the wall face. I forgot to put a straight edge up but it sure looks like that joist may be higher then the rest? That would explain why these screws may be popping since the board is under tension?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Issue # 1: You left this little important detail out in your earlier posts; You are using two different thickness sheetrock and butting them up to each other: Mistake (no-no). They should both be either 1/2" or 5/8".

Issue # 2: It appears that the ceiling joists are not aligned. Picture # 3 shows that clearly. The sheetrock surfaces should not dip up as they do in the pic.


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

Issue #1 - I have never done this before and no that it is not ideal but does this have anything to do with the problem? 

Issue #2 - So best solution is to bring the board down, shim the joist, and put a new board up I am guessing. My solution of stubbing a 2x4 into the joist will give me more meat to screw into but may end up pulling the screws out as well eventually because of the tension in the board. 

It usually is the more difficult solution to do it right...


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Atlantic has it nailed!
You should try to use the green board in your bathroom everywhere, not just over the tub, as it is the water resistant variety. And the dip in picture no. 3 looks like it may be more than the 1/8" difference in the thickness of the drywall, indeed indicating that your joists are slightly mis-aligned.
This is not uncommon, and my earlier suggestion of strapping your ceiling may go a long way to improving how flat the ceiling will be.
Good luck with this.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

I think that running the drywall parrallel with the 24" oc joists and attaching through the factory edge could also cause the 5/8" to do that. For the most part you should alway's try to install drywall perpendicular to the framing. IMO:yes:


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

100% correct. I hadn't noticed if the board was parallel to or across the joists.


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

The drywall was installed parrallel to the joists. Another thing that I am concerned about is the amount of insulation loading above the drywall. I discussed with a few others locally here and it seems the best solution may be to put another layer of drywall over the first layer. This would eliminate the problem of the insulation loading on the new sheets. ANyone have any comments on this? If I do this, does it have to be 5/8" again or is 1/2" sufficient? I was thinking that I would shift the joints 1 joist so the factory edge joints would be on the opposite joists then (still running parrallel to joists). Should I hang the boards in the perpendicular direction now then? If so, that leaves your factory edge with very minimal screws in it (only at the 24" center joists) Won't that be insufficient to get a solid tape joint to hold?


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Every little bit of information helps. OK, the drywall should be running across the ceiling joists, not parallel to.
Now we learn that you have insulation above the drywall. That's not a problem in and of itself, but you do need a vapour barrier between the warm side and the insulation. Install a 6 mil poly vapour barrier, as carefully as you possibly can. This will alleviate any concern you might have about any weight resting on the drywall. Actually, this weight would be minimal in any event.
The insulation should be a press fit between the ceiling joists, and should support itself.
I don't know how cold your area gets, but a minimum of R-28 should be in your ceiling. More if there is room. Insulation is the one thing in a building that doesn't cost - it pays!


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Zjowens, Here's a good resource. *Click here :thumbsup:*


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

This one's a good one too. *Clicky*


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

Sir Mixalot - thanks for the resources. So looks like I screwed up. 5/8 as a single layer should only be installed perpendicular, not parallel. So, best option is to put up a face layer of 1/2" over the 5/8 with adhesive. Looks like I can do either parallel or perpendicular for that layer. Will most likely stay with parallel and offset the joints. Hopeully this will give me a clean joint to finish. Thanks for the help and Merry Christmas!


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## zjowens (Dec 16, 2008)

cocobolo - thanks for the reply. I did install a new vapor barrier over the old one before I put the new sheetrock up. Unfortunately the insulation still dippeed down because of all the rustling we did in the attic. I have 6" of rolled fiberglass inbetween the joists and the another 12-18" of blown in on top of that so there is some loading on the sheetrock. Looks like I should have just installed the 5/8 perpendicular to joist and I would have most likely not had this issue. Now I will jsut install a 1/2" face layer over the 5/8 and hopefully be good to go.
Thanks again for the responses and Merry Christmas


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Merry Christmas to you too! And a Happy New Year!!


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

Actually, it would be much better to remove it all and start over. You have vapor barrier issues, joist issues, drywall hanging issues, and green board issues. Too many to cover with paint. Your fix of adding another layer will add electrical code issues.

I will make the assumption that you are not putting tile on the green board as it is not longer acceptable to do that by the mfg and code. If I am wrong, then there is that issue as well.

Pile the insulation in the attic space to the side, remove all the drywall, install vapor barrier and use a straight edge to put up strapping on 16 centers. Adjust all electrical elements to the correct height and then drywall with 5/8 drywall.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

kgphoto:
I think many of your codes in the US are different from here in Canada. Are you not allowed to tile greenboard at all? Even on a vertical wall? Or am I misunderstanding you? Thanks.


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

While I think many of our codes do differ, I am in LA, a very strict place, I think most of them should be close. 

The MFG of the green board says it is no longer recommended for use as a tile backer in wet areas, ie bath tub surrounds and showers. 

Our code, says to use a product contrary to mfg, recommendations is against code. Also, if there are two conflicting parts of code, the more restrictive applies.

To use it on a ceiling, you would have to frame at 12 inch on centers, and even then, we don't use it on shower ceilings if it is to be painted, because it really doesn't perform well. One soaking and it delaminates, whereas type X can take a few.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Thank you for that. Maybe it's a good thing that I don't have ANY kind of drywall in the shower I am just installing.
If I can ever find the time I hope to start a thread on the house I am finally getting toward the end of.


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