# What kind of Speaker Wall Plate Outlet do I need?



## Drachenfire

On one side you have a 4 gang box so you could use this outlet;










However instead of using the included 2-gang plate, replace it with a 4 which will accommodate the electrical outlet. A blanking plate will cover the remaining opening.

















Blanking Plate



On the other end, you just need a single speaker connector like the one in your link.

And yes you will need to install the banana plugs on both the wires coming out of the wall, the wires coming from the speakers. 

For the wires between the wall and the receiver I recommend you use banana plugs on both ends even though they can be connected to the receiver without them.

You did not indicate if the ceiling speakers are flush mounted, If they are, you can wire them directly negating the need for a plate.


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## chandler48

In addition you need to move all the speaker wires to the right to be clear of the line voltage and install a divider plate where circled to separate low voltage from line voltage. You can't combine them in the same box without dividing them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Low-Voltage-Divider-Plate-SCDIVR/202077335

Edit: your box also has to be extended to the edge of the sheetrock and the edges filled with drywall compound so there are no spaces larger than 1/8" around the perimeter.


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## VAer

Drachenfire said:


> On one side you have a 4 gang box so you could use this outlet;
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> However instead of using the included 2-gang plate, replace it with a 4 which will accommodate the electrical outlet. A blanking plate will cover the remaining opening.
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> Blanking Plate
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> On the other end, you just need a single speaker connector like the one in your link.
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> And yes you will need to install the banana plugs on both the wires coming out of the wall, the wires coming from the speakers.
> 
> For the wires between the wall and the receiver I recommend you use banana plugs on both ends even though they can be connected to the receiver without them.
> 
> You did not indicate if the ceiling speakers are flush mounted, If they are, you can wire them directly negating the need for a plate.


Hi, thanks for the information, where is the first product link? Instead of product photo.


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## VAer

chandler48 said:


> In addition you need to move all the speaker wires to the right to be clear of the line voltage and install a divider plate where circled to separate low voltage from line voltage. You can't combine them in the same box without dividing them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Low-Voltage-Divider-Plate-SCDIVR/202077335
> 
> Edit: your box also has to be extended to the edge of the sheetrock and the edges filled with drywall compound so there are no spaces larger than 1/8" around the perimeter.


Thanks.

There are 7 speakers wire, I don't think there is enough room on the right if adding divider plate. If putting in divider plate, there are only 6 holes on the right of divider plate.

Update : contractor said he can take out Power outlet and leave it all for speaker wire only.


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## Dave Sal

Your contractor isn't up to speed on home theater design. Fortunately he seems to have no problem making things right. You should never have speaker wires in close proximity to power outlets or you risk getting hum or noise in your speakers. Have him move the power outlet to a separate box. Check out Monoprice for great prices on wall plates and banana plugs.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4012
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9436
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6907


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## Drachenfire

VAer said:


> Hi, thanks for the information, where is the first product link? Instead of product photo.


Parts Express


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Your contractor isn't up to speed on home theater design. Fortunately he seems to have no problem making things right. You should never have speaker wires in close proximity to power outlets or you risk getting hum or noise in your speakers. Have him move the power outlet to a separate box. Check out Monoprice for great prices on wall plates and banana plugs.
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4012
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9436
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6907


Thanks. 

Please help me figure out how many of each item I need to order.


Quantity = 1: 3-Gang 7.1 Surround Sound Distribution Wall Plate with HDMI

Quantity = 7: High Quality Banana Binding Post Two-Piece Inset Wall Plate for 1 Speaker 

How many pairs of Speaker Banana Plugs do I need? 7 Pairs?
or 14 pairs Please look at my first post's receiver, does each speaker need two pairs of Speaker Banana Plugs? One pair at Wall Plate end, and the other pair on Receiver end?

Quantity = 1: Blank plate

One more question: Look at picture # 1, one of 7 speaker wire is for subwoofer. While you look at the picture of attached wall plate, how to connect speaker wire to the behind of wall plate?

Thanks.


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## Dave Sal

You would need one of the 7.1 wall plates if all of your speakers were in-wall speakers or you had already run wires to every speaker location. Not sure if you've done that. I thought you had four in-ceiling speakers and these were the ones that came out of that box with the power outlet. Didn't you buy tower speakers and a center channel too? I'm assuming that you would run speaker wire directly from the receiver to the tower speakers and center channel, possibly having the speaker wire run along the baseboard. To connect the speaker wires to the back of the wall plate you'll need to strip the wires and wrap them under each terminal after loosening the connector. Banana plugs would be best but they'd be too long and probably wouldn't fit in the box. You'll need 14 pairs of banana plugs, 7 for the wall plate and 7 for the receiver. Maybe post up some pics so we can see what you're dealing with.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> You would need one of the 7.1 wall plates if all of your speakers were in-wall speakers or you had already run wires to every speaker location. Not sure if you've done that. I thought you had four in-ceiling speakers and these were the ones that came out of that box with the power outlet. Didn't you buy tower speakers and a center channel too? I'm assuming that you would run speaker wire directly from the receiver to the tower speakers and center channel, possibly having the speaker wire run along the baseboard. To connect the speaker wires to the back of the wall plate you'll need to strip the wires and wrap them under each terminal after loosening the connector. Banana plugs would be best but they'd be too long and probably wouldn't fit in the box. You'll need 14 pairs of banana plugs, 7 for the wall plate and 7 for the receiver. Maybe post up some pics so we can see what you're dealing with.


As first post states: 
*Speakers: Total 7 speakers. Four in ceiling speakers, One front left speaker, one front right speaker, front center is subwoofer speaker. All spearker wire looks like picture # 2.*

Those four in ceiling speakers look like picture #2. I don't think in ceiling speakers need power outlet, did you tell me (in another post) that those speakers are powered by receiver? So the outlet is for speaker wire only.

I think I have posted all the pictures in the first post, I have also described it in the first post: Picture # 1 is next to receiver, 7 speaker wire in the outlet, power outlet has been taken out of picture 1, now picture 1 is for those 7 speaker wire only. For those 7 speaker wire, the other end of all those 7 speaker wire looks like picture #2. 

Forget about HDMI cable for now, it is in separate outlet, so I have ordered plate for HDMI cable already.

Thanks so much!


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> * front center is subwoofer speaker. *


The front center speaker terminal is not for a subwoofer. The subwoofer output on the receiver is an RCA plug, not speaker wire. I looked up your Denon receiver and looked for an image of the rear panel. If this one is correct there is no speaker level output on the receiver, but there are two RCA outputs for dual subwoofers. You would run an RCA cord from the receiver to the RCA input on the back of the subwoofer. 

The center channel question seems to continue. Looks like you will have no center channel speaker so you'll have to select a phantom center channel thru the receiver setup when you get to that point. It won't be nearly as good as having one but you'll probably find that out for yourself after using the system for a while.


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## Drachenfire

> front center is subwoofer speaker


If I understand this right you are using a subwoofer in place of a center channel speaker. If this is the case it is a bad idea. A subwoofer and center channel do two different things. Watching a program or movie in with such a setup will be a terrible experience.

A subwoofer is dedicated to the reproduction of low-pitched audio frequencies otherwise known as bass. The typical frequency range for a subwoofer is about 20–200 Hz for consumer products or below 80 Hz in THX-approved systems.

The center channel speaker operates at different frequencies and his combined with other compatible speakers to maximize the surround-sound effect in a room. This is why it is advisable when setting up a home theater system to insure all the speakers are compatible. 

This is the typical setup for a 7.1 surround-sound system.


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## VAer

Drachenfire said:


> If I understand this right you are using a subwoofer in place of a center channel speaker. If this is the case it is a bad idea. A subwoofer and center channel do two different things. Watching a program or movie in with such a setup will be a terrible experience.
> 
> A subwoofer is dedicated to the reproduction of low-pitched audio frequencies otherwise known as bass. The typical frequency range for a subwoofer is about 20–200 Hz for consumer products or below 80 Hz in THX-approved systems.
> 
> The center channel speaker operates at different frequencies and his combined with other compatible speakers to maximize the surround-sound effect in a room. This is why it is advisable when setting up a home theater system to insure all the speakers are compatible.
> 
> This is the typical setup for a 7.1 surround-sound system.


My contractor sets it up like this. Four ceiling speakers, one FL speaker, one FR speaker, one center SUB. Total 7 speakers.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> The front center speaker terminal is not for a subwoofer. The subwoofer output on the receiver is an RCA plug, not speaker wire. I looked up your Denon receiver and looked for an image of the rear panel. If this one is correct there is no speaker level output on the receiver, but there are two RCA outputs for dual subwoofers. You would run an RCA cord from the receiver to the RCA input on the back of the subwoofer.
> 
> The center channel question seems to continue. Looks like you will have no center channel speaker so you'll have to select a phantom center channel thru the receiver setup when you get to that point. It won't be nearly as good as having one but you'll probably find that out for yourself after using the system for a while.


 Now look at my previous post, I place SUB in front center, there is outlet (picture 2 in first post). How to connect speaker wire to SUB? The other end of speaker wire will be connected to receiver.

By the way, back to earlier question (#8 post in this thread), based on my case, what do I need to order?


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> My contractor sets it up like this. Four ceiling speakers, one FL speaker, one FR speaker, one center SUB. Total 7 speakers.


Once again, your contractor doesn't know what he's doing and you should educate him about what is needed. The center channel output is NOT for a subwoofer, period. The frequencies put out by the center channel output will be full range (20hz to 20khz), while a subwoofer only deals with low bass, (20hz to maybe 120hz, depending on the sub). Nothing good will come out of trying to connect a full range output to a subwoofer input. Speaker wire is not what you'd use to connect the subwoofer to the receiver. In your case, you want an RCA cable like I previously mentioned. 

Ref your question about post eight, I thought I responded to that already. Maybe you can list all of the equipment that you have now including make and model, as well as pics of all of the wall plates and speaker wires. Are all of the speaker wires that you'll use inside the walls?


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Once again, your contractor doesn't know what he's doing and you should educate him about what is needed. The center channel output is NOT for a subwoofer, period. The frequencies put out by the center channel output will be full range (20hz to 20khz), while a subwoofer only deals with low bass, (20hz to maybe 120hz, depending on the sub). Nothing good will come out of trying to connect a full range output to a subwoofer input. Speaker wire is not what you'd use to connect the subwoofer to the receiver. In your case, you want an RCA cable like I previously mentioned.
> 
> Ref your question about post eight, I thought I responded to that already. Maybe you can list all of the equipment that you have now including make and model, as well as pics of all of the wall plates and speaker wires. Are all of the speaker wires that you'll use inside the walls?



I don't know either, that is why I have asked so many question.

Now it appears that the front center speaker outlet (with speaker wire buried in the ceiling) cannot be used for subwoofer.

Sorry that I have asked so many questions so many times, let me try to make questions clear in this post.

Now look at attached three photos: Red rectangular represents speaker wire outlet, there are 7 red rectangular outlet labeled as 1, which is the picture #Outlet 1. There is speaker outlet labeled as 2, which is the one in picture Outlet 2, but this is old photo, power outlet has been taken out, and Outlet 2 is for 7 speaker wire only. The other end of 7 Outlet 1 is connected to this Outlet 2 .

I have another two HDMI outlets, one end is on the wall by the shelf, the other end is in the ceiling by the Projector, so that should be fine. HDMI outlet also looks like Outlet 1, but it is HDMI cable buried in the ceiling. I have taken care out HDMI plate.

The build-in shelf is the place for receiver/movie source(laptop etc)

Based on your opinion, can I put subwoofer next to shelf? If I put subwoofer under projector screen, how can I have that long of RCA cable connecting to receiver on the shelf. 

All my equipment so far: Movie Source Laptop, Movie Source MiBox(something similar to RoKu), Projector Epson Home Cinema 2150 , Projector Screen, 4 in ceiling speakers, two speakers for FR/FL, one subwoofer(initially, I thought it can be placed in front center), Denon AVR - X3400H Receiver.

Denon AVR - X3400H Receiver & Definitive Technology ProSub 800 120v Speaker: is it possible to get a device and wireless connect these two devices without using RCA cable?

Thank you very much.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Once again, your contractor doesn't know what he's doing and you should educate him about what is needed. The center channel output is NOT for a subwoofer, period. The frequencies put out by the center channel output will be full range (20hz to 20khz), while a subwoofer only deals with low bass, (20hz to maybe 120hz, depending on the sub). Nothing good will come out of trying to connect a full range output to a subwoofer input. Speaker wire is not what you'd use to connect the subwoofer to the receiver. In your case, you want an RCA cable like I previously mentioned.
> 
> Ref your question about post eight, I thought I responded to that already. Maybe you can list all of the equipment that you have now including make and model, as well as pics of all of the wall plates and speaker wires. Are all of the speaker wires that you'll use inside the walls?


Attached: I have found this Wireless Subwoofer, I guess I can put this wireless device on the shelf, and put Subwoofer under projector screen. 

How can I connect this wireless device into my receiver? Only need to connect to one hole in receiver.


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## Dave Sal

Nice drawing. Makes sense now. You would buy a single speaker wall plate for each location marked "outlet one". 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3639

The bare speaker wires coming out of the wall would be connected to the back of each wall plate by loosening the fitting and wrapping the bare wires around each terminal, then tightening. For the FL and FR speakers you would connect banana plugs to both ends of two sets of speaker wires, plug one end into the back of the speakers, and then plug the other ends into the "outlet one" speaker wall plate. 

Subwoofers tend to sound better near a wall, and can be even better if located in a corner. In your case it could go right near the shelf where the receiver will be, so a relatively short RCA cable is all that you need to connect it to the receiver. Once you get everything set up and running, if you find that your subwoofer is "boomy", try to move it slightly left or right, or closer or farther from the wall. Sometimes this will help it sound better. Sounds from a subwoofer are difficult to locate as to their source, so that means that you can put it almost anywhere. 

Forgot about the wireless subwoofer question. I am confused once again cause I thought you already bought the Definitive Technology Pro-Sub. There is no need for a wireless sub as you can put the sub near the receiver so there is no long cable required. In any case, at least in my opinion, the technology for wireless speakers is not quite there yet so it's better to run wiring to each one. I'm assuming you are asking because you thought you would need a long cable for the sub.

If you have some extra money buy a matching center channel speaker.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Nice drawing. Makes sense now. You would buy a single speaker wall plate for each location marked "outlet one".
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3639
> 
> The bare speaker wires coming out of the wall would be connected to the back of each wall plate by loosening the fitting and wrapping the bare wires around each terminal, then tightening. For the FL and FR speakers you would connect banana plugs to both ends of two sets of speaker wires, plug one end into the back of the speakers, and then plug the other ends into the "outlet one" speaker wall plate.
> 
> Subwoofers tend to sound better near a wall, and can be even better if located in a corner. In your case it could go right near the shelf where the receiver will be, so a relatively short RCA cable is all that you need to connect it to the receiver. Once you get everything set up and running, if you find that your subwoofer is "boomy", try to move it slightly left or right, or closer or farther from the wall. Sometimes this will help it sound better. Sounds from a subwoofer are difficult to locate as to their source, so that means that you can put it almost anywhere.
> 
> Forgot about the wireless subwoofer question. I am confused once again cause I thought you already bought the Definitive Technology Pro-Sub. There is no need for a wireless sub as you can put the sub near the receiver so there is no long cable required. In any case, at least in my opinion, the technology for wireless speakers is not quite there yet so it's better to run wiring to each one. I'm assuming you are asking because you thought you would need a long cable for the sub.


Let me confirm if these attached photos are what I need to buy.

Subwoofer: Since I don't have RCA cable buried in ceiling, so I kinda prefer to return Definitive Technology Pro-Sub, and buy a wireless subwoofer, so that I can put it in the front corner (next to FL speaker). If I go with the wireless subwoofer in the above post, how can I connect the Amazon screenshot device to receiver? Here is Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQFIP9F/

Thanks very very much!


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## Dave Sal

If I were you I would wait before I returned the Def Tech subwoofer. Try it out back by the shelf where the receiver is located. As I mentioned, bass is omni-directional so you won't really know where the sound from it is coming from. 

I have no experience with wireless subs or speakers so you might want to see if you could download the owners manual for one and see how it connects. 

And yes, the wall plates and banana plugs should be what you need.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> If I were you I would wait before I returned the Def Tech subwoofer. Try it out back by the shelf where the receiver is located. As I mentioned, bass is omni-directional so you won't really know where the sound from it is coming from.
> 
> I have no experience with wireless subs or speakers so you might want to see if you could download the owners manual for one and see how it connects.
> 
> And yes, the wall plates and banana plugs should be what you need.


Basement renovation is still in the process, it is scheduled to finish last week, but there are some plumbing problem, which requires to reopen ceiling to fix it.

I bought Def Tech subwoofer on Feb 2nd, and I think I need to return it in 30 days if I don't want it. I do not expect to get it set up by March 2. Moreover, I cannot tell which position is best to put subwoofer. Even if I know how to tell which position is best, how can I compare back position with other positions, I need to test it in multiple positions, before I decide which position is best, that means I need a very long RCA cable to bring subwoofer to different positions of room.

Thank you very much!


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## Dave Sal

The subwoofer is probably the easiest to place in the room since it is omni-directional. Like I mentioned you shouldn't really be able to pinpoint where it is in the room when it's running. Because of that, placing it where it's easiest (by the shelf) will probably work out fine. Small adjustments are only needed if you find the bass to be boomy. That could also mean that you need to adjust the crossover point or the volume on the sub. Once you get everything connected you can run the Audyssey program.

From the Denon website:
The AVR-X3400H features the most advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room acoustic measurement system including Audyssey Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ, LFC and SubEQ HT. Through these technologies, and with the supplied microphone, it exactly analyzes each speaker's output to optimize the overall listening experience.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> The subwoofer is probably the easiest to place in the room since it is omni-directional. Like I mentioned you shouldn't really be able to pinpoint where it is in the room when it's running. Because of that, placing it where it's easiest (by the shelf) will probably work out fine. Small adjustments are only needed if you find the bass to be boomy. That could also mean that you need to adjust the crossover point or the volume on the sub. Once you get everything connected you can run the Audyssey program.
> 
> From the Denon website:
> The AVR-X3400H features the most advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room acoustic measurement system including Audyssey Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ, LFC and SubEQ HT. Through these technologies, and with the supplied microphone, it exactly analyzes each speaker's output to optimize the overall listening experience.



Probably I will go with wireless subwoofer, I don't really like to put it next to shelf, it blocks the way to access movie source. Moreover, it is wet bar next to shelf. So I prefer to put subwoofer next to FL spearker, corner of room.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> The subwoofer is probably the easiest to place in the room since it is omni-directional. .....


Update: I think wireless surwoofer cannot be better than wired surwoofer. 

So I may keep current surwoofer, but is this cable what I need?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5597

Can I put surwoofer on the shelf (not on floor by the shelf)? I think sofa will "block" the sound, if putting it on the floor.


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## Drachenfire

VAer said:


> My contractor sets it up like this. Four ceiling speakers, one FL speaker, one FR speaker, one center SUB. Total 7 speakers.


Is your contractor an A/V specialist? If he claims to be, I would question it.

With a sub right in front of the viewing area and connected to the center channel on the receiver, you will likely have a bad imbalance between your speakers resulting in a distortion of your surround-sound. 

If the sub is connected to it proper terminal on the receiver, its placement in front of the viewing area will dominate most of the other speakers also distorting the surround-sound.

Your contractor went through all the work to run wiring for 7 speakers, it makes no sense why he simply did not run 1 more for the sub-woofer. 

The only reason I can think of for his configuration is he screwed up by not running an 8th wire and is now trying to cover that mistake by trying to make your sub-woofer do something it was never designed to do.

I would seriously question this configuration he is implementing.


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Update: I think wireless surwoofer cannot be better than wired surwoofer.
> 
> So I may keep current surwoofer, but is this cable what I need?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5597
> 
> Can I put surwoofer on the shelf (not on floor by the shelf)? I think sofa will "block" the sound, if putting it on the floor.


That cable is wrong. I would get this one, at 25' long, just to give you more length to help with placement. You may not need anywhere close to that long but you can coil up the unused portion and hide it by the receiver or behind the sub. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2683

Like Drachenfire said, I don't think it's a good idea to put the sub so close to the front soundstage. It doesn't need to be near the couch either. Try different locations, but somewhere along a wall. It should NOT be put on a shelf, as it will vibrate too much. It should be placed on a solid surface (the floor).


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> That cable is wrong. I would get this one, at 25' long, just to give you more length to help with placement. You may not need anywhere close to that long but you can coil up the unused portion and hide it by the receiver or behind the sub.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2683
> 
> Like Drachenfire said, I don't think it's a good idea to put the sub so close to the front soundstage. It doesn't need to be near the couch either. Try different locations, but somewhere along a wall. It should NOT be put on a shelf, as it will vibrate too much. It should be placed on a solid surface (the floor).



Thanks for the link. Otherwise, I would have ordered the wrong cable. Your photo makes me a little confused, you circled two holes in receiver.

Should I put subwoofer along the purple line? Should it be between front speaker and back speaker?

Build in shelf is actually very solid, it may be a little more solid than flooring (floating installed vinyl flooring). All shelves are nailed and cannot take apart. I chose shelf, because it can keep things neat.

Now I feel like wireless surwoofer, I cannot image there is cable of more than 20 feet on the floor.

Thanks.


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## Dave Sal

You can surely try the subwoofer on the shelf but my guess is that the whole thing will vibrate and distort the sound. My picture of the back of your receiver circled two subwoofer outputs, because that Denon model supports two subwoofers. A nice feature to have if you really enjoy bass. In your case you would use a single one. I think anywhere along the purple line would be good as long as the cable reached and there was a power outlet available. 

As I mentioned, placement of the sub is something that you'll have to play around with. It is not that critical. Put it somewhere out of the way, close enough to your receiver, and also close enough to a power outlet so you can plug it in. It will probably sound great no matter where you put it. Keep in mind that most speakers need a break-in period. In my case, the Definitive Technology BP2002 towers I have needed around 30 hours of break-in time before they reached their full potential. During this break-in period they sounded a bit harsh. Afterwards they smoothed out nicely.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> You can surely try the subwoofer on the shelf but my guess is that the whole thing will vibrate and distort the sound. My picture of the back of your receiver circled two subwoofer outputs, because that Denon model supports two subwoofers. A nice feature to have if you really enjoy bass. In your case you would use a single one. I think anywhere along the purple line would be good as long as the cable reached and there was a power outlet available.
> 
> As I mentioned, placement of the sub is something that you'll have to play around with. It is not that critical. Put it somewhere out of the way, close enough to your receiver, and also close enough to a power outlet so you can plug it in. It will probably sound great no matter where you put it. Keep in mind that most speakers need a break-in period. In my case, the Definitive Technology BP2002 towers I have needed around 30 hours of break-in time before they reached their full potential. During this break-in period they sounded a bit harsh. Afterwards they smoothed out nicely.


Thanks, let me think about wireless surwoofer.

Thanks for educating me, now I have some knowledge about home theater.


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## Dave Sal

You do what you want, but if it were me I would not mess around with a wireless subwoofer.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> You do what you want, but if it were me I would not mess around with a wireless subwoofer.


Thanks for the advice. What do you mean "mess around"? Sounds like wireless surwoofer is a bad choice.


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## Dave Sal

What I meant was that I would not use a wireless subwoofer.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> What I meant was that I would not use a wireless subwoofer.


Thanks. Your comments make me keep current SUB.

By the way, based on my pictures, where should I install in-ceiling speakers? I know it should be close to outlet, but I don't know how to determine the distance from front/left wall.


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Thanks. Your comments make me keep current SUB.
> 
> By the way, based on my pictures, where should I install in-ceiling speakers? I know it should be close to outlet, but I don't know how to determine the distance from front/left wall.


Ref your in-ceiling speakers, if it were me, for now I would only mount the two speakers that are behind the couch and connect them as the rear surround channels. I would put them in the same area as the two speaker wire locations, maybe a foot or two to the left and right of the ends of the couch, and the same distance to the rear of the couch, and if possible, angled down aiming towards the couch. 

The two in-ceiling speakers in front of the couch will only mess up the soundstage of the front left and right speakers. Those two in-ceiling speakers would be nice to use as "height" speakers if you are using the Dolby Atmos feature of your receiver. Other than that scenario, I see no reason why they are there, and you are still missing the all important center channel speaker which does the majority of movie dialogue.

How long till you start connecting everything and testing it out?


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Ref your in-ceiling speakers, if it were me, for now I would only mount the two speakers that are behind the couch and connect them as the rear surround channels. I would put them in the same area as the two speaker wire locations, maybe a foot or two to the left and right of the ends of the couch, and the same distance to the rear of the couch, and if possible, angled down aiming towards the couch.
> 
> The two in-ceiling speakers in front of the couch will only mess up the soundstage of the front left and right speakers. Those two in-ceiling speakers would be nice to use as "height" speakers if you are using the Dolby Atmos feature of your receiver. Other than that scenario, I see no reason why they are there, and you are still missing the all important center channel speaker which does the majority of movie dialogue.
> 
> How long till you start connecting everything and testing it out?


Thanks, maybe late this month or early March. Basement remodeling has not finished yet.


----------



## Drachenfire

VAer, I would strongly suggest you get a new A/V consultant that can provide references or stick to proven surround-sound concepts examples of which can be found on a plethora of A/V websites. 

Between wiring and equipment you are investing a good bit of money and I would hate to see it wasted because the installer is making guesses or trying to cover mistakes. 

After he is gone you will be left with the results and I can almost guarantee he will not take any of your calls if things go sideways as I suspect they possibly will.


----------



## VAer

Drachenfire said:


> VAer, I would strongly suggest you get a new A/V consultant that can provide references or stick to proven surround-sound concepts examples of which can be found on a plethora of A/V websites.
> 
> Between wiring and equipment you are investing a good bit of money and I would hate to see it wasted because the installer is making guesses or trying to cover mistakes.
> 
> After he is gone you will be left with the results and I can almost guarantee he will not take any of your calls if things go sideways as I suspect they possibly will.


Thanks. It does not need to be very fancy, as long as it works out. Don't want to spend money on consultant. I am hiring current contractor, rather than professional company, only because the remodeling quote is cheaper.


----------



## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Thanks. It does not need to be very fancy, as long as it works out. Don't want to spend money on consultant. I am hiring current contractor, rather than professional company, only because the remodeling quote is cheaper.


This is why it's so important for you to understand how home theater works, since your contractor does not. 

Just to sum up, home theater is made up of a 5.1 channel audio system (or sometimes 7.1, 9.2. and more). Five speakers and one subwoofer. Each of the five speakers has a specific job to do and the movies you watch are designed around that system. Most of the action sounds come from the front left and right speakers. Most of the dialogue comes from the front center channel, and the ambience sounds, which create the illusion of depth, come from the rear surround channels. The subwoofer recreates the deep thunder, earthquakes, explosions, etc, and help the main speakers to create the full range of frequencies. 

All of these speakers work together to create the home theater experience. Take one out and you lose the effect. That's why I keep mentioning the lack of a center channel. Sure, you can set the front left and front right speakers to take over but then dialogue will not be coming from the screen and it won't look right when your watching a movie. Imagine talking to someone and when they answer you their voice is coming from five feet to the side.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> This is why it's so important for you to understand how home theater works, since your contractor does not.
> 
> Just to sum up, home theater is made up of a 5.1 channel audio system (or sometimes 7.1, 9.2. and more). Five speakers and one subwoofer. Each of the five speakers has a specific job to do and the movies you watch are designed around that system. Most of the action sounds come from the front left and right speakers. Most of the dialogue comes from the front center channel, and the ambience sounds, which create the illusion of depth, come from the rear surround channels. The subwoofer recreates the deep thunder, earthquakes, explosions, etc, and help the main speakers to create the full range of frequencies.
> 
> All of these speakers work together to create the home theater experience. Take one out and you lose the effect. That's why I keep mentioning the lack of a center channel. Sure, you can set the front left and front right speakers to take over but then dialogue will not be coming from the screen and it won't look right when your watching a movie. Imagine talking to someone and when they answer you their voice is coming from five feet to the side.


Maybe I need to buy a sound bar for front center? Return two in ceiling speakers. 

What is your suggestion for front center speaker? Hopefully less than 1 feet height.

The good thing is I have three speaker wire outlets under projector screen.


----------



## Dave Sal

A sound bar is a replacement for the front three channels, so no, you would not want one of those. You'd want a single center channel speaker. If I remember correctly you have Polk front speakers? If so, get a Polk center channel too. I seem to remember possibly including a link earlier in this thread.

Here is a link for a Polk center channel. They also have cheaper ones though. 

https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-C...519153619&sr=8-6&keywords=polk+center+channel

Edit: just looked through this whole thread and can't find anything about Polk speakers so maybe that was in one of your other threads.

And lastly, unless you plan on using the two front in-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos, I'd return them and use the money to pay for the center channel.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> A sound bar is a replacement for the front three channels, so no, you would not want one of those. You'd want a single center channel speaker. If I remember correctly you have Polk front speakers? If so, get a Polk center channel too. I seem to remember possibly including a link earlier in this thread.
> 
> Here is a link for a Polk center channel. They also have cheaper ones though.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-C...519153619&sr=8-6&keywords=polk+center+channel
> 
> Edit: just looked through this whole thread and can't find anything about Polk speakers so maybe that was in one of your other threads.
> 
> And lastly, unless you plan on using the two front in-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos, I'd return them and use the money to pay for the center channel.


I am thinking of going with definitive technology procenter 1000.

Trying to keep all speakers in few different brands. If I knew, I should buy whole set of 5.1 speaker system, instead of buying it separately. But it is hard to find such a set(FR, Center, FL, Sub, Rear ceiling right, rear ceiling left)


----------



## Dave Sal

I have the Definitive Technology ProCenter 1000. It is an excellent speaker and blends well with my Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800's. But, if your other main speakers are Polk, then you should stick with the same brand to timber match, meaning they all have the same general sound. If not, you might end up with a pair of neutral sounding main speakers and a harsh center that doesn't match in sound quality.

Help me out here. What brand and model are your front left and right speakers?


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I have the Definitive Technology ProCenter 1000. It is an excellent speaker and blends well with my Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800's. But, if your other main speakers are Polk, then you should stick with the same brand to timber match, meaning they all have the same general sound. If not, you might end up with a pair of neutral sounding main speakers and a harsh center that doesn't match in sound quality.
> 
> Help me out here. What brand and model are your front left and right speakers?


FR, FL, Surwoofer are definitive technology. Thinking about to return all four ceiling speakers, and buy two definitive technology in ceiling speaker and procenter 1000

Does procenter 1000 require power outlet? Is speaker wire (connected to receiver) good enough? I have two stands for FR/FL speakers, but I don't have much room under projector screen, center speaker has to be on the floor, which is not at the same level as FR/FL speakers


FL & FR: Definitive Technology Mythos Gem Satellite Speakers

Definitive Technology ProSub 800 120v Speaker 

In ceiling: Yamaha NSIC600WH 2-Way 110-Watts RMSSpeaker


----------



## Dave Sal

I don't know why I kept thinking you had Polks. I love my Definitive Technology speakers, and think you've chosen wisely. The ProCenter1000 does not need a power outlet, just the speaker wire. If you have to put the center channel on the floor just make sure to angle it up toward ear level when you are sitting on the couch. I had a similar issue in my family room where the CLR2002 center channel was right under the projector screen. I had to buy a stand about a foot tall to get it at the right height. 
Keeping all of the speakers the same brand is a good idea. Here's a pic of my small 3.1 system in the living room. A pair of ProMonitor 800's, a ProCenter 1000 and a sub that is not in the pic.


----------



## Drachenfire

You definitely want to keep the speakers consistent at the very least in brand. If possible get them in a set.

Years ago when I first attempted a surround-sound in my home I threw together the speakers I had on hand and it sounded terrible. Spoke with a friend a lot more knowledgeable on the subject who explained the situation. He had a set of NHT speakers he was not using and offered to let me try them out. If I liked them we would make a deal. 

It is a 5.1 setup and when I got them connected and the speakers calibrated, it was night and day compared to my old setup. He offered them at a good price which I took.

I am still using them today and they still sound great. 

I am not saying you have to go that high end (I could not afford brand new NHTs), but as Dave Sal pointed out Polk and Definitive Technology make excellent products, just make sure you match the speakers sound wise.


----------



## VAer

Drachenfire said:


> You definitely want to keep the speakers consistent at the very least in brand. If possible get them in a set.
> 
> Years ago when I first attempted a surround-sound in my home I threw together the speakers I had on hand and it sounded terrible. Spoke with a friend a lot more knowledgeable on the subject who explained the situation. He had a set of NHT speakers he was not using and offered to let me try them out. If I liked them we would make a deal.
> 
> It is a 5.1 setup and when I got them connected and the speakers calibrated, it was night and day compared to my old setup. He offered them at a good price which I took.
> 
> I am still using them today and they still sound great.
> 
> I am not saying you have to go that high end (I could not afford brand new NHTs), but as Dave Sal pointed out Polk and Definitive Technology make excellent products, just make sure you match the speakers sound wise.


Thanks, I will return in ceiling speakers and buy two definitive technology in ceiling speakers. Then all speakers are in one brand


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I don't know why I kept thinking you had Polks. I love my Definitive Technology speakers, and think you've chosen wisely. The ProCenter1000 does not need a power outlet, just the speaker wire. If you have to put the center channel on the floor just make sure to angle it up toward ear level when you are sitting on the couch. I had a similar issue in my family room where the CLR2002 center channel was right under the projector screen. I had to buy a stand about a foot tall to get it at the right height.
> Keeping all of the speakers the same brand is a good idea. Here's a pic of my small 3.1 system in the living room. A pair of ProMonitor 800's, a ProCenter 1000 and a sub that is not in the pic.


How about Definitive Technology DT 6.5R 2-way In-Ceiling Speaker ? Any older version(cheaper) of Definitive Technology In-Ceiling Speaker?


----------



## VAer

What is the difference between these two speakers (Definitive Technology DT6.5R In-Ceiling 6.5 Inch Speaker vs. Definitive Technology DT6.5STR In-Ceiling 6.5 Inch Stereo or 2 way Surround Speaker)? What does 2 way mean?

Thanks.

https://designeraudiovideo.com/product/definitive-technology-dt6-5r/

https://designeraudiovideo.com/product/definitive-technology-dt6-5str-in-ceiling-6-5-inch-stereo-or-2-way-surround-speaker-each/


----------



## VAer

I think 2 way speaker also have the feature of surwoofer, and my front center speaker can pick up 47Hz already.

Do I really need surwoofer? It would be better if I can get rid of surwoofer, since I don't have surwoofer cable buried in ceiling and I don't want to have a 25 feet cable on the floor.

This surwoofer cannot pick up anything below 32 HZ, not much different from 47HZ.


----------



## VAer

DT6.5R: 28 Hz - 30 kHz
DT6.5STR: 27 Hz - 30 kHz

I don't see a reason to have a separate surwoofer if I have either DT6.5R or DT6.5STR, plus front center speaker (catch as low as 47 Hz)

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets.soundunited.com/definitive/product_documents_legacy/D_DTSeries_OwnersManual%20(1).pdf


----------



## w0j0

To answer an earlier question--"two way" simply means that there are two drivers or two ranges of frequencies reproduced from one speaker system. That is to say that there is a woofer and tweeter in one cabinet or enclosure. In this case, the driver is a coaxial unit with the woofer and tweeter sharing the same axis, a feature that improves phase coherence and speech intelligibility.


VAer said:


> DT6.5R: 28 Hz - 30 kHz
> DT6.5STR: 27 Hz - 30 kHz
> 
> I don't see a reason to have a separate surwoofer if I have either DT6.5R or DT6.5STR, plus front center speaker (catch as low as 47 Hz)
> 
> https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...uments_legacy/D_DTSeries_OwnersManual (1).pdf


The problem with specs like this is that they don't qualify them with a tolerance, ie +/- 10dB or similar. Those speakers may hit 28 hz but at a level so low that it's useless for any practical purpose. The fact that your center channel digs deep is also not relevant since mainly dialogue comes from the center channel.
The difference between 47 hz and 32 hz is almost half an octave, musically, the same as the difference between 10khz and 15khz or 5khz and 7.5khz. Though the numbers may differ in magnitude, the ear accepts the relationship to be proportional.
My subwoofer (2x 8" drivers in a transmission line) faithfully reproduces down to 15 hz (-3dB). While not every movie or song utilizes this capability, the impact it creates when called upon serves to further immerse the audience in the experience. Spending time and money to set up a surround sound system only to stop short and not include a sub is doing yourself a massive disservice, imo.

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## w0j0

Dave Sal said:


> You can surely try the subwoofer on the shelf but my guess is that the whole thing will vibrate and distort the sound. My picture of the back of your receiver circled two subwoofer outputs, because that Denon model supports two subwoofers. A nice feature to have if you really enjoy bass. In your case you would use a single one. I think anywhere along the purple line would be good as long as the cable reached and there was a power outlet available.
> 
> As I mentioned, placement of the sub is something that you'll have to play around with. It is not that critical. Put it somewhere out of the way, close enough to your receiver, and also close enough to a power outlet so you can plug it in. It will probably sound great no matter where you put it. Keep in mind that most speakers need a break-in period. In my case, the Definitive Technology BP2002 towers I have needed around 30 hours of break-in time before they reached their full potential. During this break-in period they sounded a bit harsh. Afterwards they smoothed out nicely.


The two sub outputs is not solely for increasing the amount of bass. It's quite useful to have a second sub to tame the standing waves in a room that are a result of only one sub, thereby smoothing out the bass response of the entire listening space.

A trick for finding optimal sub placement is to start with your sub in the primary listening spot, ie your comfy chair at which all the other speakers are aimed. Next, with appropriate source media playing through the system, move about the room, putting your ears in speculative placements for the subwoofer. When you find a location that sounds good, you've found the new home for your sub.

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## VAer

w0j0 said:


> To answer an earlier question--"two way" simply means that there are two drivers or two ranges of frequencies reproduced from one speaker system. That is to say that there is a woofer and tweeter in one cabinet or enclosure. In this case, the driver is a coaxial unit with the woofer and tweeter sharing the same axis, a feature that improves phase coherence and speech intelligibility.
> The problem with specs like this is that they don't qualify them with a tolerance, ie +/- 10dB or similar. Those speakers may hit 28 hz but at a level so low that it's useless for any practical purpose. The fact that your center channel digs deep is also not relevant since mainly dialogue comes from the center channel.
> The difference between 47 hz and 32 hz is almost half an octave, musically, the same as the difference between 10khz and 15khz or 5khz and 7.5khz. Though the numbers may differ in magnitude, the ear accepts the relationship to be proportional.
> My subwoofer (2x 8" drivers in a transmission line) faithfully reproduces down to 15 hz (-3dB). While not every movie or song utilizes this capability, the impact it creates when called upon serves to further immerse the audience in the experience. Spending time and money to set up a surround sound system only to stop short and not include a sub is doing yourself a massive disservice, imo.
> 
> Sent from my mobile look-at device


Thanks. I am a new bie, feel a little bit difficult to understand your post (quite some professional words).

So sum it up, do you think if it is necessary to have a surwoofer (for not very professional level), if I have center speaker catching 47hz, and two in ceiling speakers DT6.5STR catching 27hz 

For most movies, how low frequency can it have? I am thinking about returning surwoofer (after learning speakers can catch very low frequency already). I don't want to see a long surwoofer cable on the floor.

I have no idea what dB mean.

Thanks


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## w0j0

For your consideration:

Basic sound physics and explanation of decibel aka dB- https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/sound.html


http://www.mcsquared.com/nsca98.htm
Scroll down to "on axis frequency response" and and on from there

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## VAer

w0j0 said:


> For your consideration:
> 
> Basic sound physics and explanation of decibel aka dB- https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/sound.html
> 
> 
> http://www.mcsquared.com/nsca98.htm
> Scroll down to "on axis frequency response" and and on from there
> 
> Sent from my mobile look-at device


It is difficult to understand those kinds of article(full of professional words), I need some plain language. 

Sounds like good speakers cannot substitute subwoofer either.


----------



## w0j0

VAer said:


> It is difficult to understand those kinds of article(full of professional words), I need some plain language.
> 
> Sounds like good speakers cannot substitute subwoofer either.


Yeah, audio is really just math and physics and it takes "professional" words to properly, or at least efficiently, describe it. If one wants to diy audio and obtain desirable results, it's important to be willing to educate oneself on the basics, at minimum. It also takes a bit of understanding to even determine what is desirable for each person. Some folks are perfectly happy with a simple sound bar while others won't even be satisfied with [insert unobtainable design spec here]. Personally, I prefer accurate reproduction over sheer loudness any day but to achieve accuracy in the lower registers (bass) it takes a bit of power and volume--the spacial kind, not the loud kind. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to buy off the shelf speaker systems that satisfy my desires so I build them. This level of diy takes a tremendous amount of understanding of the concepts involved... Or someone to do that part for you and you just build their designs. This applies to compete surround systems as well. Others have designed systems with complementary components that fit into a design goal. It is reasonable to assume these systems, when put together in a similar space, will produce similarly pleasing results. In any project, it is important to identify one's specific goals; research means to achieve these goals; design a solution based on said research; implement design; test the design compared to goals; adjust, if needed.
Surround sound audio streams include a channel known as LFE or low frequency effect. This is fed directly to a subwoofer. It is not fed to any other output as it may damage speakers that aren't designed to handle it. Telling, is the fact that the literature for the speakers selected indicates that a crossover frequency of 60 Hz should be selected on your receiver. This, to me, indicates that despite big claims, the manufacturer of the speakers does not have confidence that the speakers can faithfully reproduce sound below that frequency. 
Hope this helps. Sorry about writing a book for a response.

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## VAer

w0j0 said:


> Yeah, audio is really just math and physics and it takes "professional" words to properly, or at least efficiently, describe it. If one wants to diy audio and obtain desirable results, it's important to be willing to educate oneself on the basics, at minimum. It also takes a bit of understanding to even determine what is desirable for each person. Some folks are perfectly happy with a simple sound bar while others won't even be satisfied with [insert unobtainable design spec here]. Personally, I prefer accurate reproduction over sheer loudness any day but to achieve accuracy in the lower registers (bass) it takes a bit of power and volume--the spacial kind, not the loud kind. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to buy off the shelf speaker systems that satisfy my desires so I build them. This level of diy takes a tremendous amount of understanding of the concepts involved... Or someone to do that part for you and you just build their designs. This applies to compete surround systems as well. Others have designed systems with complementary components that fit into a design goal. It is reasonable to assume these systems, when put together in a similar space, will produce similarly pleasing results. In any project, it is important to identify one's specific goals; research means to achieve these goals; design a solution based on said research; implement design; test the design compared to goals; adjust, if needed.
> Surround sound audio streams include a channel known as LFE or low frequency effect. This is fed directly to a subwoofer. It is not fed to any other output as it may damage speakers that aren't designed to handle it. Telling, is the fact that the literature for the speakers selected indicates that a crossover frequency of 60 Hz should be selected on your receiver. This, to me, indicates that despite big claims, the manufacturer of the speakers does not have confidence that the speakers can faithfully reproduce sound below that frequency.
> Hope this helps. Sorry about writing a book for a response.
> 
> Sent from my mobile look-at device


Thanks. Then I will use 5.1 system: Front Center, FL, FR, Rear Right Ceiling, Rear Left Ceiling, Surwoofer.

I need to buy two more in ceiling speakers.

Should I go with DT6.5R or DT6.5STR?Any big difference?


----------



## Dave Sal

wOjO posted some excellent information, much more eloquently than I could have. 

Basically, the specs that show deep bass coming from relatively small speakers, such as these 6.5" Definitive Tech in-ceiling models or even the ProCenter 1000, is usually just marketing gimmicks used to make the speakers seem more capable than they really are. They will not perform like that during normal operation. A subwoofer is definitely needed in a home theater system or it will sound thin and lose the impact and excitement. When you set up the receiver, you'll tell it how many speakers you have and normally designate all of them as "small", and then the receiver will send all of the lower bass signals to the subwoofer, which will allow the other speakers to be free from reproducing the lower bass which will make them perform better. 

I would get the cheaper Definitive Technology in-ceiling speakers and keep the subwoofer. Again, the subwoofer can be placed close to the receiver since you don't want the long cord. Once you hear how the subwoofer functions (as in not being able to tell where the sounds are coming from) then you'll probably understand why it's not that critical as far as placement.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> the receiver will send all of the lower bass signals to the subwoofer


Receiver can do it automatically? Is there any setting needed?

I mistakenly thought: receiver sends everything out to every speaker, and let every speaker handles whatever it can handle.

Definitive Technology in-ceiling speakers are not cheap, it may cost more than $300 for only two speakers(but I will buy it, pretty much the last item I need to buy), the previous 4 in ceiling speakers cost $200. For everything added together(from cable/plate, to laptop/projector), it may cost me around $5000

The issue is I can find DT6.5STR, which is only $10.01 more than DT6.5R, not sure if I should go with DT6.5STR.

Thanks.


----------



## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Receiver can do it automatically? Is there any setting needed?
> 
> I mistakenly thought: receiver sends everything out to every speaker, and let every speaker handles whatever it can handle.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, the receiver does this automatically, depending on how you set it up. That's the cool thing about home theater, that each speaker can get only the sounds that were intended for that channel. For example, a jet plane flying from left to right will zoom through the left, then the center, and then the right channels, with the roar of the engines being reproduced by all three speakers but the subwoofer picking up the majority of the deep sounds. 

Even though my Definitive Technology BP2002 powered tower speakers each have a 12" built in subwoofer and a 250 watt amplifier, I have them set to "small" so that the subwoofer gets the majority of the deep bass. I could probably get away with setting these towers to "large" since they have built in subs with their own amps, but I find that it sounds better this way. 

The Audyssey system in your receiver will fine tune the settings of your system once you run it.

If the DT6.5STR is only $10 more I would get that.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Yes, the receiver does this automatically, depending on how you set it up. That's the cool thing about home theater, that each speaker can get only the sounds that were intended for that channel. For example, a jet plane flying from left to right will zoom through the left, then the center, and then the right channels, with the roar of the engines being reproduced by all three speakers but the subwoofer picking up the majority of the deep sounds.
> 
> Even though my Definitive Technology BP2002 powered tower speakers each have a 12" built in subwoofer and a 250 watt amplifier, I have them set to "small" so that the subwoofer gets the majority of the deep bass. I could probably get away with setting these towers to "large" since they have built in subs with their own amps, but I find that it sounds better this way.
> 
> The Audyssey system in your receiver will fine tune the settings of your system once you run it.
> 
> If the DT6.5STR is only $10 more I would get that.


Ok, I placed an order on walmart, $340 for two DT6.5STR

Thanks.


----------



## Dave Sal

I had no idea that Walmart even sold DT. Those appear to be out of stock when I clicked the link. If they are, I wouldn't hesitate to get the slightly cheaper model that you mentioned.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I had no idea that Walmart even sold DT. Those appear to be out of stock when I clicked the link. If they are, I wouldn't hesitate to get the slightly cheaper model that you mentioned.


Before I placed the order, there were 3 available. I got it @$170 for each. DT official site lists it at $249

Here is DT6.5R on walmart, @159.99, 4 available at this moment. $159.99 is not a deal at all, DT official site lists it at $179. I found it @ $138 on Amazon yesterday, but after so many posts, the deal is gone today. Maybe I clicked too many times on the amazon link, and Amazon detects it as popular product and increase the price.

They can be found with cheaper price at some other websites, but I guess those websites are not authorized sellers, may not be able to get the warranty.


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## Dave Sal

I'm looking forward to when you have everything hooked up and start using the system. It'll be interesting to hear your impressions after you watch your first movie. Make sure you make it a good one with lots of sound effects. I looked up various lists of movies that show off a home theater sound system and it seems like The Dark Knight movie is included quite often. :batman:


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## VAer

This is probably the cheapest price I have just found, but I would not prefer to buy it via that website (not authorized dealer)


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## Dave Sal

I wouldn't buy from a non-authorized dealer either, just in case of warranty issues.


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## VAer

I received the package many days ago, but just open it today. Apparently, there is something wrong.

What kind of HDMI cable is it? Why one end is so short? 

What kind of HDMI cable do I need? 

This is what I ordered: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024010&p_id=3341&seq=1&format=2

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=7330&seq=1&format=2

The long end can plug in wall plate, but short end cannot plug into receiver.


----------



## VAer

I guess that is male-female cable, maybe I need male-male cable.


----------



## djlandkpl

VAer said:


> I received the package many days ago, but just open it today. Apparently, there is something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of HDMI cable is it? Why one end is so short?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of HDMI cable do I need?
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I ordered: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024010&p_id=3341&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=7330&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> 
> The long end can plug in wall plate, but short end cannot plug into receiver.




You bought an extension cable. The short end is for another HDMI cable.


----------



## VAer

djlandkpl said:


> You bought an extension cable. The short end is for another HDMI cable.


So if the below one what I need to buy?

Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SIJY/


----------



## Dave Sal

If that's the cable you ordered from Monoprice (in the posted link) then they sent you the wrong one.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> If that's the cable you ordered from Monoprice (in the posted link) then they sent you the wrong one.


This is what I ordered, it is male-to-female cable, I ordered the wrong one. I think I need male-to-male cable. I did not pay attention to it.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024010&p_id=3341&seq=1&format=2&AID=11051853&PID=6158626&ref=cj&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink-2470763


----------



## Dave Sal

Ahh, I didn't see that tiny print. The one in your pic looks like the end on the left is round. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture. But yes, you need male ends on both.

The HDMI cable in the link at Amazon will work for you.


----------



## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Ahh, I didn't see that tiny print. The one in your pic looks like the end on the left is round. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture. But yes, you need male ends on both.
> 
> The HDMI cable in the link at Amazon will work for you.


It really drives me crazy now, the plate does not work well. The plate fits, but not big enough to cover the hole.

Look at the one contractor uses, I need a bigger plate. Yes, contractor may not cut the drywall well, but it is what it is now, I need bigger plate to cover the hole. when I ordered it, I never thought about this kind of thing.

Probably I need the dimension of at least 3.5" by 5", as the one contractor uses.


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## VAer

Finally, I found a 4-gang wall plate.

Just want to make sure if it works for me?

https://www.amazon.com/Vanco-HTWP72BW-Whole-House-Theater/dp/B001702I1Q/


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## VAer

I requested to return everything, actually, there are only two items are good: Banana Plugs & Subwoofer cable. To make it simple, I just want to return everything, not sure if it will be approved or not.

I don't know why they don't make the plate bigger. Most plates (on other websites) are bigger.

It costs me about $150, almost double what I paid on monoprice.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I had no idea that Walmart even sold DT. Those appear to be out of stock when I clicked the link. If they are, I wouldn't hesitate to get the slightly cheaper model that you mentioned.


DT6.5STR is not the in ceiling speaker I need, since it requires too wires: speaker wire and subwoofer, since it does come with those two features, but I have only speaker.

Contractor made mistake about ceiling wall plate, which should never be needed. Probably I will go with three speaker (Front Left, Front Center, Front Right) and subwoofer for now. 

http://www.diychatroom.com/f12/how-install-definitive-technology-dt-series-dt6-5str-speaker-607418/


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> DT6.5STR is not the in ceiling speaker I need, since it requires too wires: speaker wire and subwoofer, since it does come with those two features, but I have only speaker.
> 
> Contractor made mistake about ceiling wall plate, which should never be needed. Probably I will go with three speaker (Front Left, Front Center, Front Right) and subwoofer for now.
> 
> http://www.diychatroom.com/f12/how-install-definitive-technology-dt-series-dt6-5str-speaker-607418/


The Def Tech speakers that you have can be used both as a single stereo source where you have two sets of inputs (left and right channels) connected to it and you'd reproduce both stereo channels from one single speaker, or you can use them as regular surround speakers. I see no separate subwoofer connection, as a 6.5" driver is not a subwoofer, just a mid-bass / bass driver. Your single speaker wire should be all you need.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> The Def Tech speakers that you have can be used both as a single stereo source where you have two sets of inputs (left and right channels) connected to it and you'd reproduce both stereo channels from one single speaker, or you can use them as regular surround speakers. I see no separate subwoofer connection, as a 6.5" driver is not a subwoofer, just a mid-bass / bass driver. Your single speaker wire should be all you need.


Are you sure single speaker wire is enought? It is DT6.5STR, not DT6.5R . 

Why there are four plugs there?

How to cut a circle in drywall?

Thanks.


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Are you sure single speaker wire is enought? It is DT6.5STR, not DT6.5R .
> 
> How to cut a circle in drywall?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, that speaker can be used either as a single speaker running both left and right channels all by itself, or as a regular surround speaker where you would need two. 

From the Definitive technology website:
"DT Custom Install Series Round 6.5" Single Stereo and Surround In-Ceiling Speaker".

I looked up the manual but it was hard to read. Again, here's a quote from the website:
"With the flip of a switch, the DT6.5STR transitions from the ideal single stereo speaker for smaller spaces, like bathrooms, to a surround speaker that lavishes your home theater with rich fidelity."

Just connect the speaker wire to the connections marked "left channel" on the left side of the room, and "right channel" for the speaker on the right side of the room. You can aim the tweeters to face the listening position by twisting them, but read the instructions first.

Edit: to cut the circle in the drywall, use the template that came with the speakers and mark the circle with a pencil. Then you'll need a drywall saw. Maybe your contractor could do this for you? If not, just go slowly and try to stay on the line, because the flanges that will secure the speaker to the drywall will clamp to that area. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-Prem...MI7KHkuPj-2QIVxR6GCh35VgoxEAQYASABEgK8__D_BwE


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## Nealtw

Sort of tools for cutting holes drill two holes I a stick one for a center nail and the other for a pencil, get fancy and cut a slot in the stick that will hold a knife blade.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Yes, that speaker can be used either as a single speaker running both left and right channels all by itself, or as a regular surround speaker where you would need two.
> 
> From the Definitive technology website:
> "DT Custom Install Series Round 6.5" Single Stereo and Surround In-Ceiling Speaker".
> 
> I looked up the manual but it was hard to read. Again, here's a quote from the website:
> "With the flip of a switch, the DT6.5STR transitions from the ideal single stereo speaker for smaller spaces, like bathrooms, to a surround speaker that lavishes your home theater with rich fidelity."
> 
> Just connect the speaker wire to the connections marked "left channel" on the left side of the room, and "right channel" for the speaker on the right side of the room. You can aim the tweeters to face the listening position by twisting them, but read the instructions first.
> 
> Edit: to cut the circle in the drywall, use the template that came with the speakers and mark the circle with a pencil. Then you'll need a drywall saw. Maybe your contractor could do this for you? If not, just go slowly and try to stay on the line, because the flanges that will secure the speaker to the drywall will clamp to that area.
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-Prem...MI7KHkuPj-2QIVxR6GCh35VgoxEAQYASABEgK8__D_BwE


Previously attached photo: why there are four plugs? Thanks.


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## Dave Sal

There are four plugs because the speaker has the capability of playing a stereo signal even if you only have one speaker. Don't worry about that. You got a great price on a nice speaker. Just use one set of plugs (LIN+ / LIN-) for the left channel speaker and then use the plugs marked (RIN+ / RIN-) for the right channel speaker.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> There are four plugs because the speaker has the capability of playing a stereo signal even if you only have one speaker. Don't worry about that. You got a great price on a nice speaker. Just use one set of plugs (LIN+ / LIN-) for the left channel speaker and then use the plugs marked (RIN+ / RIN-) for the right channel speaker.


Thanks. Any one set of plugs? Why your picture looks different than mine. The black two plugs are in the center in my picture. 

Another photo shows in the wall, is it really fine for in ceiling? It is kinda of heavy? 

Thanks so much. Trying to put up theater now, since basement renovation is done.


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## Nealtw

https://www.lowes.ca/drywall-access...Ve-rp1JoTHdVT6Hft0gaAgXqEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Dave Sal

I got that picture from the Crutchfield website. Couldn't find any others that showed the back of the speaker. Yours might be a newer version but the two sets of inputs are on both. Just use one set (red and black). 
These speakers are designed to be wall or ceiling mounted. The drywall should have no problem holding them in place, assuming your contractor installed it correctly.


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## VAer

Nealtw said:


> https://www.lowes.ca/drywall-access...Ve-rp1JoTHdVT6Hft0gaAgXqEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


Thanks, but the link does not point to the product. But I found the product when searching keyword. I will get one in Home Depot for $10


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## Nealtw

VAer said:


> Thanks, but the link does not point to the product.


 Most stores that sell drywall will have these for about $24. I think the will do up to 16" circle.


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## Oso954

If you have more than a couple of holes, you might be better off with an adjustable hole saw.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Quick-Cutter-Adjustable-Hole-Saw-53731/203828012


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I got that picture from the Crutchfield website. Couldn't find any others that showed the back of the speaker. Yours might be a newer version but the two sets of inputs are on both. Just use one set (red and black).
> These speakers are designed to be wall or ceiling mounted. The drywall should have no problem holding them in place, assuming your contractor installed it correctly.


It seems that if I wants stereo mode, I need two speaker wires, since I have only one speaker wire, so I have to choose surround mode. It is not like choosing any set of plugs. Am I correct? Which mode is better for home theater (if people have two speaker wires and can choose to use one or both) ?

Attached photo for surround mode: Why speaker has label "Right" and instruction says "Left channel wires"? What does it mean? Is it a mistake?

Thanks.


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## Dave Sal

Thanks for posting that picture of the manual. I was wondering where the switch was at. Your speaker wire coming out of your ceiling should be a double strand wire, so you simply split them apart, find which one is + and -, and then connect them to the red and black posts as shown in the manual for surround mode (negative post of the right channel and positive post of the left channel), then flip the switch to surround mode. Do it the same on the other speaker.
This speaker model is slightly different than normal speakers because it is has the ability of taking two separate stereo channels and reproducing them both with this single speaker. You won't be using that feature though, so don't let the extra pair of plugs confuse you.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> Thanks for posting that picture of the manual. I was wondering where the switch was at. Your speaker wire coming out of your ceiling should be a double strand wire, so you simply split them apart, find which one is + and -, and then connect them to the red and black posts as shown in the manual for surround mode (negative post of the right channel and positive post of the left channel), then flip the switch to surround mode. Do it the same on the other speaker.
> This speaker model is slightly different than normal speakers because it is has the ability of taking two separate stereo channels and reproducing them with this single speaker. You won't be using that feature though so don't let the extra pair of plugs confuse you.


That is also what I thought, but another question is: is there a typo in the manual? As I point out in red rectangle: it labels "Right" on the speaker, but instruction says "Left channel wires". It seems to me that Left channel is bottom two plugs (in the photo), not the top two plugs.


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## Dave Sal

No, that is not a typo. Do like the instructions say: (negative post of the right channel and positive post of the left channel).


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> No, that is not a typo. Do like the instructions say: (negative post of the right channel and positive post of the left channel).


I still think the picture is wrong. Speaker wire has two strands : positive (red) & negative (black). Black strand connects to black plug, red strand connects to red plug, correct? 

Attached picture: I think there is typo, based on my understanding. Two black plugs are in the center, two red plugs are on the side.


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## Dave Sal

I realize that it may appear wrong because it seems like you should be connecting to one pair of posts, but it should be correct connecting it the way it says in the manual. It would be nice if you could post a picture of the rear of the speaker, not in the plastic wrapping. 
Still, do as they suggest, even if it seems wrong to you. Once you connect it and start playing music or something you'll see that it works as its supposed to.
I think you're having problems with this because this is an unusual speaker design. It has two sets of inputs instead of the usual single input, one for the left channel and one for the right channel. But that ONLY applies if you use it as a single speaker reproducing both channels of a stereo signal. Someone might want to do that if they wanted to listen to music in their bathroom and didn't want to cut two holes for two separate speakers. They would buy one of these speakers and connect both left and right channel inputs to this speaker, and they would be able to hear both channels from this one single speaker.
You are not doing that, so you are basically sending a single channel input into both left / right inputs. It's hard to explain, but you'll have to trust that it will work that way.


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## VAer

Dave Sal said:


> I realize that it may appear wrong because it seems like you should be connecting to one pair of posts, but it should be correct connecting it the way they say in the manual. It would be nice if you could post a picture of the rear of the speaker, not in the plastic wrapping.
> Still, do as they suggest, even if it seems wrong. Once you connect it and start playing music or something you'll see that it works as its supposed to.


I will open the plastic wrapping tomorrow when installing. I am not at home right now.

Thanks.


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## VAer

Did not think things thoroughly, short of one pair of banana plug. 

I mistakenly thought I only need 10 pairs (5 pairs for speaker, 5 pairs for receiver), so ordered of box containing 12 pairs. Now I realize I need 10 pairs for receiver, 3 pairs for front speakers, no banana plug needed for in ceiling speakers.


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## Dave Sal

VAer said:


> Did not think things thoroughly, short of one pair of banana plug.
> 
> I mistakenly thought I only need 10 pairs (5 pairs for speaker, 5 pairs for receiver), so ordered of box containing 12 pairs. Now I realize I need 10 pairs for receiver, 3 pairs for front speakers, no banana plug needed for in ceiling speakers.


Receiver - five pairs

speakers - three pairs

wall plates - five pairs


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