# Help an idiot build a home office shed...



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Hi guys. I've got a ton of questions coming up. i might make this a build thread. i'm a writer by trade and step-by-steps are relaxing for me.
> Let's see how it goes.
> 
> 
> ...


 If you build it on concrete blocks, you do know it will shift in mud and be subject to freeze and thaw movement.
So are you building a permanent office with insulation and finishing or what I call yard junk?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> If you build it on concrete blocks, you do know it will shift in mud and be subject to freeze and thaw movement.
> So are you building a permanent office with insulation and finishing or what I call yard junk?



haha! I like that, Yard Junk. I plan to build a permanent office with 16" on center joists (2x6 treated), fiberglass batt insulation, 110 electricity (with a slip sleeve), hardwood floors, and fancy double doors. I expect it to last at least 30 years. I'll be dead by then and won't much care.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> haha! I like that, Yard Junk. I plan to build a permanent office with insulation, electricity (with a slip sleeve), hardwood floors, and fancy double doors. I expect it to last at least 30 years. I'll be dead by then and won't much care.



Then you build it off the ground on concrete piers that are deeper than the frost depth in your area. 

Then you fill the ground level so you are some what above the water level lay down some filter cloth and a inch or two of gravel so you have nothing growing under the shed.. 

Then you build the floor out of 2x8s or 2x10s for insulation and stability, You build that up side down and cover it with insect screen for insects and wire mesh for critters and flip it over on top of the piers, square it up add insulation and plywood, then you are ready to build a shed.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Then you build it off the ground on concrete piers that are deeper than the frost depth in your area.
> 
> Then you fill the ground level so you are some what above the water level lay down some filter cloth and a inch or two of gravel so you have nothing growing under the shed..
> 
> Then you build the floor out of 2x8s or 2x10s for insulation and stability, You build that up side down and cover it with insect screen for insects and wire mesh for critters and flip it over on top of the piers, square it up add insulation and plywood, then you are ready to build a shed.



Well, that's an eye opener. Let's look at it in pieces because I'm an idiot and need to worry over stuff like a dog on a bone before it makes sense. 

Our frost depth is about 4 inches here so that's not a big deal, but for the concrete piers - would I just dig a 2' hole, stick a solotube in a garbage bag (to prevent moisture leaks), drop them both in a hole, and then fill the tube with quickrete? Is that sufficient? And should I stop at 4" above ground level or higher?


----------



## phentium3 (Dec 10, 2018)

Hey I just build a 12x10 modern style home office, after about 4 months of weekend work I am almost done. What I did for the foundation is dig 3' down and build 18" up. I place PVC pipes in the area that will house the electrical and cable TV, I have 1/2 inch anchor screws for the foundations and insulate the floor with foam boards. I place pavers around the foundation to divert water to a drain and had concrete poured for walkway from the house.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Well, that's an eye opener. Let's look at it in pieces because I'm an idiot and need to worry over stuff like a dog on a bone before it makes sense.
> 
> Our frost depth is about 4 inches here so that's not a big deal, but for the concrete piers - would I just dig a 2' hole, stick a solotube in a garbage bag (to prevent moisture leaks), drop them both in a hole, and then fill the tube with quickrete? Is that sufficient? And should I stop at 4" above ground level or higher?


 Close to that. 18" should do it unless you still find real soft like top soil 

An 8" tube would be good but the bottom of the hole wants to be a bigger foot print, so you dig a bigger hole and hold the tub 8" off the bottom so the concrete can spread out so you fill the bottom and back fill the outside with some dirt and then fill the rest of the tube. You hold the tube up with 2x4 nailed to the side that straddle the hole. 

A couple chunks of rebar pushed down in the we concrete and a post saddle in to top to position the beams for the deck. The tops have to come up level and square with each other.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Close to that. 18" should do it unless you still find real soft like top soil
> 
> An 8" tube would be good but the bottom of the hole wants to be a bigger foot print, so you dig a bigger hole and hold the tub 8" off the bottom so the concrete can spread out so you fill the bottom and back fill the outside with some dirt and then fill the rest of the tube. You hold the tube up with 2x4 nailed to the side that straddle the hole.
> 
> A couple chunks of rebar pushed down in the we concrete and a post saddle in to top to position the beams for the deck. The tops have to come up level and square with each other.



Post saddle like the bottom metal piece on this?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Post saddle like the bottom metal piece on this?



Yes there are some different ones depending on how the shed will be built or how high you want it off the ground.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes there are some different ones depending on how the shed will be built or how high you want it off the ground.


Roger that. Well, I'll get started on gathering new materials. Once the footings are in I'll post up some pics and see what's next. 

Good news is i get to buy a new cement mixer. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for years.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Roger that. Well, I'll get started on gathering new materials. Once the footings are in I'll post up some pics and see what's next.
> 
> Good news is i get to buy a new cement mixer. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for years.


But then you have to make it bigger for that tool shed too. :biggrin2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> But then you have to make it bigger for that tool shed too. :biggrin2:


 Here is a trick for getting everything level and square.
We dump the tubes in the holes and build a frame with corners more to the size of the saddles with precisely cut 2x6s 

Then you can square the frame , drive stakes and level it and nail the stakes and then lift the tubes up under it and screw the 2x4s to the sides of them to hold them in place. 



I have tried to draw a couple sketches.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Here is a trick for getting everything level and square.
> We dump the tubes in the holes and build a frame with corners more to the size of the saddles with precisely cut 2x6s
> 
> Then you can square the frame , drive stakes and level it and nail the stakes and then lift the tubes up under it and screw the 2x4s to the sides of them to hold them in place.
> ...


That helps a lot. I thought I was doing 12 footings though so you just saved me some money. I was going to do four along the front (12' long), 4 along the back (12' long), four down the middle.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That helps a lot. I thought I was doing 12 footings though so you just saved me some money. I was going to do four along the front (12' long), 4 along the back (12' long), four down the middle.


 You can do more or you can put more lumber in the floor. . 

2 3 ply 2x10 beams in the saddles and build on top of that.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You can do more or you can put more lumber in the floor. .
> 
> 2 3 ply 2x10 beams in the saddles and build on top of that.


3 ply, meaning 3 boards screwed together? That's six total, 12' long?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> 3 ply, meaning 3 boards screwed together? That's six total, 12' long?


Yes, and I forgot to mention those boards would be treated lumber. then any nails or screws or anything that touches that has to be compatible.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes, and I forgot to mention those boards would be treated lumber. then any nails or screws or anything that touches that has to be compatible.


That should be plenty sturdy. I was planning on ground contact lumber for them. 

But since I'm using saddle things do the ends (C and D) just get screwed on to the tough boards (A and B), then joists run down the middle on hangers?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That should be plenty sturdy. I was planning on ground contact lumber for them.
> 
> But since I'm using saddle things do the ends (C and D) just get screwed on to the tough boards (A and B), then joists run down the middle on hangers?


 Ground contact for the lowest boards are good. You can build the frame out reg. lumber on top of those or build the whole frame out of treated with HDG hangers and nails. Because that puts you closer to the ground and termites and maybe water on really bad days. 



I would build on top of the beams.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Ground contact for the lowest boards are good. You can build the frame out reg. lumber on top of those or build the whole frame out of treated with HDG hangers and nails. Because that puts you closer to the ground and termites and maybe water on really bad days.
> 
> 
> 
> I would build on top of the beams.



I'm probably missing something important here, but those saddle hangers only hold one set of boards so if i put them on the corners then I can do three ply for A and B, but C and D won't have anywhere to tie up.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

6x6 post saddle 3, 2x10s and a block fills it, you put them less than 12 ft apart so it doesn't interfere with the end joist


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 6x6 post saddle 3, 2x10s and a block fills it, you put them less than 12 ft apart so it doesn't interfere with the end joist



End joist in a joist hanger like the middle ones I'll have in the frame?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> End joist in a joist hanger like the middle ones I'll have in the frame?


The end one just gets nailed across the end.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The end one just gets nailed across the end.


Roger that. Now I feel more confident going to the store tomorrow. Thanks Neal!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Roger that. Now I feel more confident going to the store tomorrow. Thanks Neal!


The bug screen and critter screen are easier to deal with if you build on top of the beams


----------



## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

GrapeApe said:


> Roger that. Now I feel more confident going to the store tomorrow. Thanks Neal!


You got this man..

Post pictures as u go.. folks here get ya from start to finish...


----------



## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

grapeape said:


> post saddle like the bottom metal piece on this?


"nice"


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks guys. On an unrelated note, does anyone know why my pictures aren't showing up? If I click on "Edit" on one of my posts I can see the picture and it's loading fine, but when I click post it just shows my text.

For instance, here's my labeled picture with ABCD sides that doesn't show up for me. 




If I quote myself it shows up in the edit window too, but it still doesn't show in the post.


----------



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

Just a couple things. 

1. Follow Neal's picture on the concrete pier and note the feature at the bottom for uplift protection. I did not catch your location but uplift seems to be something people don't understand or plan for. Any good structure will have uplift provisions. Just pouring a tube of concrete in the ground is not considered an uplift provision, you need a lock feature at the bottom as shown. 

2. On steel saddles with rebar, it is always good practice to add a little "L" bend on the end to lock in the concrete better. 

3. IMO, anytime concrete is placed, steel needs to be in it. In most cases like this, the steel actually does nothing. However, if the concrete ever cracks, which it usually does, the steel goes to work to hold the structure together and minimize the crack opening. For this design, I would just get some wire mesh and make a barrel shape and slide it in the tube, keeping it approx 3" away from the outside. 

4. Size. 10-12 is tiny. This is a LOT of work for such a small space so at least consider a touch bigger for expansion. I have never heard someone say "I built it too big". 

5. Roof trusses, I would not waste the money on store bought trusses. The roof loads on this are so minimal that even a basic A frame truss with no inner webs is sufficient. There are a few ways to do it. Obviously if you just want to knock it out though, stores should stock them in that size.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@viper frost depth= 4 inches.


----------



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

The frost depth is only part of the equation if building a sound structure. You still need a below grade footing for lateral and uplift forces. Obviously if someone wants to ignore all that, that is their deal but I think it was mentioned to make a long life, sound structure. 

The lateral force capacity of the soil will be a function of depth and diameter, but obviously minimal requirements here. 

I did read the "4" frost" but I am wondering if this is just what the OP 'says' it gets to or if that is what is designated in the county codes for design frost. I think ours is 24" for design but I have never seen frost below 12". Hell, my irrigation stays live year round at 12". 

Really getting below grade for proper piers has more to do with getting some uplift protection, lateral, and hold grade. Buildings sat on dirt are subject to problems from surface water.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

viper said:


> Just a couple things.
> 
> 1. Follow Neal's picture on the concrete pier and note the feature at the bottom for uplift protection. I did not catch your location but uplift seems to be something people don't understand or plan for. Any good structure will have uplift provisions. Just pouring a tube of concrete in the ground is not considered an uplift provision, you need a lock feature at the bottom as shown.
> 
> ...


1. He said to lift it up a bit and let the concrete fan out some to help with uplift. I planned to do that. 

2. Good idea. i'll do that. 

3. The solotubes are pretty small around. if I put wire 3" from the outside, that's pretty close to the center. Not that I'm saying it's not going to work, just that I don't see how it helps in this situation. 

4. 10x12 is the biggest I can get without calling the smock smuckers at city Hall and getting a permit. I'd rather not have them on my propa'tay if i can help it. 











5. I planned on laying 2x6s from the back 12' side to the front 12' side, cutting a birds mouth, and topping with plywood etc. I won't be buying anything pre-made because I'm not a rich man, but I do want it to last. 

Thanks for the tips Viper. Wish you were here earlier too. Now I wonder if I should just build 12x16 and see if i get caught. 
:devil3:


EDIT: I lied. the windows and doors are going to be premade. I'm not THAT alzheimered....yet.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@viper: a couple questions. 1. what force would be needed to pull a 7" rebar out of concrete. 

2. How would you propose to bend a hook in a 5/8 rebar that is 7" long while maintaining the HDG coating.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@ GrapeApe I didn't get into the construction of the shed so you didn't get overwhelmed with to much info at one time. 

If this will be a conditioned space it will need insulation so plan for much more than 2x6 rafters.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> @ GrapeApe I didn't get into the construction of the shed so you didn't get overwhelmed with to much info at one time.
> 
> If this will be a conditioned space it will need insulation so plan for much more than 2x6 rafters.



It will definitely be conditioned. It gets to 120 here pretty regularly in the sun. Thanks for not overwhelming me! 

Postponed trip till tomorrow to make sure I got it right. Here's my grocery list:

11x 2x10s 12' long, ground contact
6x saddle thingys with 7" rebar hanging off the end
6x 10x4 sonotubes (not solotubes. Not meant for sunlight, i guess)
18x (guessing) bags of quickrete
line level to hang on leveling strings
120 sq ft worth of insect netting
120 sq ft worth of critter mesh?
Brand new concrete mixer (sweet!)
7 1/4" saw blade for my skil saw
More 3 1/2" jerk (grk) screws 

Does that sound about right?

If i decide to sneak in 12x16, do I need to change anything above?


----------



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

I guess I mentioned the concrete reinforcements as a general note. Obviously the design and dimensions can dictate. My overall goal is to get 'some' steel in any structural concrete pour. Sometimes if all you can get is a few #3 rebars in there, that's it. I just like to see steel because when concrete cracks and there is no inner structure, the cracks will expand and lead to further failure. 

Evidence of this can be seem in cheap slabs without reinforcements. A crack will start, then open to 1" or more and in many cases, there will become a height offset. When there is an inner structure, the steel goes into tension as soon as the crack forms and it will hold things together.


----------



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

Nealtw said:


> @viper: a couple questions. 1. what force would be needed to pull a 7" rebar out of concrete. They wiggle around for a while, then nothing holding them.
> 
> 2. How would you propose to bend a hook in a 5/8 rebar that is 7" long while maintaining the HDG coating.


I guess I just make the mention as good practice. I have seen rebars like this that are loose either from poor concrete or otherwise in which the crete did not fully envelop the rebar. 

It might be overkill for this project, I will admit! What we have used on large municipal bridge jobs is a spray or paint on cold galv. We were required to use it when cutting rebars. Does it work as well? I doubt it, but better than nothing I guess. 

Do they not offer a J Or L style for this? That would seem the easiest solution IMO. 

We have never been able to buy off tension capacity for something like this without a locking feature on the rebar. Obviously this is a backyard build so my thoughts are only that.

I also didn't realize that was a 5/8 bar. That would be harder to bend, no doubt!


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

trying to post a picture again


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> It will definitely be conditioned. It gets to 120 here pretty regularly in the sun. Thanks for not overwhelming me!
> 
> Postponed trip till tomorrow to make sure I got it right. Here's my grocery list:
> 
> ...


 I would prefer HDG nails for building the beams, you will need some for sucker nails to adjust the crown so they all match.
It would be good to have a couple rebar in each pier 1/2" or better, must be at least 2" from top, bottom and sides. Then you need a steel abrasive blade for the 7 1/4" saw. 

critter mesh 1/4 Mesh Galvanized like this. the frame has to be squared for this and sq. has to be maintained. 

https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Galvanized-Vegetables-Fencing-Critters/dp/B015PD9IOU




*11x 2x10s 12'* long, ground contact ?


With beams below frame 8 x 12 ft. , 10 x 10 ft
With joists between beams 6 x 12 ft , 10 x 10ft and 18 HDG 2x10 hangers. With HDG hanger nails.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

GrapeApe said:


> trying to post a picture again



You might want to try a different hosting site. There are some limits on windypix

Hot Linking limit: 175 MB of bandwidth per Image/month

You could also upload the images directly here as attachments.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

viper said:


> I guess I just make the mention as good practice. I have seen rebars like this that are loose either from poor concrete or otherwise in which the crete did not fully envelop the rebar.
> 
> It might be overkill for this project, I will admit! What we have used on large municipal bridge jobs is a spray or paint on cold galv. We were required to use it when cutting rebars. Does it work as well? I doubt it, but better than nothing I guess.
> 
> ...


 Most times these saddles are placed in drilled holes because the post often gets broke at the footing by the back fill guy and may be off an inch or two. A least with the rebar in it we know the bottom is in the right place. 

It is a wonderful world. :biggrin2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I would prefer HDG nails for building the beams, you will need some for sucker nails to adjust the crown so they all match.
> It would be good to have a couple rebar in each pier 1/2" or better, must be at least 2" from top, bottom and sides. Then you need a steel abrasive blade for the 7 1/4" saw.
> 
> critter mesh 1/4 Mesh Galvanized like this. the frame has to be squared for this and sq. has to be maintained.
> ...


OMG do NOT SEARCH FOR SUCKER NAILS ON THE INTERNET. If that's what you want in my office, I'm sure we're talking about different uses for the word 'office'. I'm not in California! haha!

What's a sucker nail in the building sense? 





Nealtw said:


> *11x 2x10s 12'* long, ground contact ?
> 
> 
> With beams below frame 8 x 12 ft. , 10 x 10 ft
> With joists between beams 6 x 12 ft , 10 x 10ft and 18 HDG 2x10 hangers. With HDG hanger nails.


How's that work? If i use 3 of those 12 footers that's three for the front, three for the middle, and three for the back. 9 total. Then two - ahh, two 10 footers for the end caps. Don't need 12' for the end caps. 

I'd post a picture but danged if this forum doesn't hate me. It won't show any of my pics.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

joed said:


> You might want to try a different hosting site. There are some limits on windypix
> 
> Hot Linking limit: 175 MB of bandwidth per Image/month
> 
> You could also upload the images directly here as attachments.



That image is new so it isn't close to 175mb. and it shows up if I quote it or edit it so I know it's coming through. 

Loading them as attachments doesn't let me post words around them. I appreciate the help. I just wish this forum were more user friendly. I've never had this much trouble posting before.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> OMG do NOT SEARCH FOR SUCKER NAILS ON THE INTERNET. If that's what you want in my office, I'm sure we're talking about different uses for the word 'office'. I'm not in California! haha!
> 
> What's a sucker nail in the building sense?
> 
> ...



Sucker nails , when you install joists or beams you want all the the crown up to prevent sagging, not all crowns are equal and when building a beam 

you want the tops to be flush so you start nailing at one end 3 to 5 nails 16" on center, stop when they are no longer flush, go to the other end and 

2 or 3 nails together on a 45 degree from the high outside corner and beat them in and they will suck the high board down to flush. 



If you were building a post out of 2x6s, you would do the opposite and mix the crowns and straighten the boards to each other. 

We are not on the same page for the floor, I will do you a sketch if I can.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> OMG do NOT SEARCH FOR SUCKER NAILS ON THE INTERNET. If that's what you want in my office, I'm sure we're talking about different uses for the word 'office'. I'm not in California! haha!
> 
> What's a sucker nail in the building sense?
> 
> ...



This would look much the same if you were building on top of the beam or using hangers.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> This would look much the same if you were building on top of the beam or using hangers.



Ok, in my head i was building on top of the beam and it looked like that but with another line of 2x10s running down the middle for additional support where the weight will be (big fat Thomas Jefferson desk, computers, mini fridge, couch...)

You think i don't need a middle support at all?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, in my head i was building on top of the beam and it looked like that but with another line of 2x10s running down the middle for additional support where the weight will be (big fat Thomas Jefferson desk, computers, mini fridge, couch...)
> 
> You think i don't need a middle support at all?


111 inches between beams with 2x10s. That's better than your kitchen.


----------



## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

joed said:


> You might want to try a different hosting site. There are some limits on windypix
> 
> Hot Linking limit: 175 MB of bandwidth per Image/month
> 
> You could also upload the images directly here as attachments.


I use https://imgur.com/ when I don't want my server directly attached to pictures


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, in my head i was building on top of the beam and it looked like that but with another line of 2x10s running down the middle for additional support where the weight will be (big fat Thomas Jefferson desk, computers, mini fridge, couch...)
> 
> You think i don't need a middle support at all?



Skip to 520, he is placing a top plate on a wall and he is doing a single sucker nail to move the end over.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Well guys, first trip is done. I changed my plans to joists in the beams due to cost and height, mainly height. 
So I picked up 6 2x10s ground contact, 12 foot long.
10 2x10s 10 foot long
16 2x10 hangers 
a line level
a saw blade
a new 6' level 
400 sq ft roll of bug screen
and a new 3 1/2 cu.ft cement mixer that I'm really pumped about. 

Total spent so far is $565.20


Tomorrow I'll pick up the cement, 12" sonotubes, and look for those saddle anchor things. I didn't see them today. Then I'll assemble the mixer and clear the rock pathway off my building area. I also have to weld my log splitter back together, but that's unrelated. That should cash my Saturday. 

Sunday I'm going to the homodepot because Lowes here doesn't do tool rental. There I'll pick up a tiny skid steer, one of those ride-on-the-rear ones (ironic, I know). I wanted a bobcat but they didn't have one with an auger attachment so I'm using the mini version. 

I'll use it to try to level the area a bit and create some drainage, then swap to the 12" auger and dig me some cement holes super quick & easy. Here's hoping I don't hit a gas line (ours is unlocatable...)

Wish me luck!


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Here's the heavy equipment


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Well guys, first trip is done. I changed my plans to joists in the beams due to cost and height, mainly height.
> So I picked up 6 2x10s ground contact, 12 foot long.
> 10 2x10s 10 foot long
> 16 2x10 hangers
> ...


double check the string level against a level , last time i tried to buy one opened five in the store, never found one the read level.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> double check the string level against a level , last time i tried to buy one opened five in the store, never found one the read level.



I can't seem to find 5" saddle brackets. Three of these 2x10s nailed together make about 5" so 6" brackets are too big, 4" brackets are too small. 
Any idea where I'll find a 5" one?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I can't seem to find 5" saddle brackets. Three of these 2x10s nailed together make about 5" so 6" brackets are too big, 4" brackets are too small.
> Any idea where I'll find a 5" one?


3 2x10s will be 4 1/2 inches and a block will fill the 6" saddle You just make sure the nails or screws will reach thru the block. It is just a matter of fake it till you make it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 3 2x10s will be 4 1/2 inches and a block will fill the 6" saddle You just make sure the nails or screws will reach thru the block. It is just a matter of fake it till you make it.



Well a block doesn't fill the saddle. It's about 1/4" too big, but I trimmed some down. 

What kind of insulation goes in between the joists, above the bug screening?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Well a block doesn't fill the saddle. It's about 1/4" too big, but I trimmed some down.
> 
> What kind of insulation goes in between the joists, above the bug screening?


 Up here the name we get is Safe & Sound I would fill the space with both a 5 1/2" and 3 1/2"


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Up here the name we get is Safe & Sound I would fill the space with both a 5 1/2" and 3 1/2"
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd9RKeTrdXI




tHANKS Neal! Should I put up a vapor barrier on top of the stuff? I can't remember if I asked that already. I'm putting 3/4" treated plywood for the flooring, then I'm wanting to top that with hardwood flooring.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> tHANKS Neal! Should I put up a vapor barrier on top of the stuff? I can't remember if I asked that already. I'm putting 3/4" treated plywood for the flooring, then I'm wanting to top that with hardwood flooring.


The sub floor is considered the vapour barrier and you want to glue the floor down so no.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The sub floor is considered the vapour barrier and you want to glue the floor down so no.


Roger that. Going to pick up my Rockwall (safe & sound) today. I um...If I install it do i just tarp it so it doesn't get rained on while I'm working? I mean, the rain will get on the plywood and run down into it while I'm getting walls/roof on. Is that bad?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Roger that. Going to pick up my Rockwall (safe & sound) today. I um...If I install it do i just tarp it so it doesn't get rained on while I'm working? I mean, the rain will get on the plywood and run down into it while I'm getting walls/roof on. Is that bad?


 Snap the lines on the floor to stand the walls with, then cover with a 6 mill poly that you can leave there until; you have it dried in, roof, windows ,doors, then remove it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Snap the lines on the floor to stand the walls with, then cover with a 6 mill poly that you can leave there until; you have it dried in, roof, windows ,doors, then remove it.



I planned to snap lines on each joist, but should there be more? Like on the beams too or something?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I planned to snap lines on each joist, but should there be more? Like on the beams too or something?


 Ignore that, old habits, we do lines for the inside of the wall to makes sure houses are straight and square, you will just line up with outside of the floor and nail it down. It's not forty feet long.


----------



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

You could just buy an old pontoon boat and build off of that....... wet land issue solved....


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

hannahwellims said:


> Personally i dont have an idea for this.
> how about taking help from instruct ables or some other ideas sites?


 This is a site to ask and get answers for DIY.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Jackofall1 said:


> You could just buy an old pontoon boat and build off of that....... wet land issue solved....



That's a great idea! I'll go get an old pontoon boat right now. :vs_laugh:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Well guys, the project's finished! With the help of Neal and Jackofall1 I have built a MASTERPIECE! Let me know what you guys think! Maybe stop by for a beer some time! Wear sunscreen though... (Neal, let me know if you can see this picture).


----------



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

No picture to view


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Jackofall1 said:


> No picture to view


The other day had to go from firefox to exployer to see his pictures, today I have it on firefox. :vs_whistle: I thought I would download it and re enter it but it won't let me.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

No pic. .


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

exployer to the resue


----------



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

@Nealtw you should get an additional 100 reward points for this act of kindness.....


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> exployer to the resue



Awesome! I'm going to post up a bunch of progress pics etc tonight then. Along with a ballooning budget. All this stuff gets expensive FAST.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Awesome! I'm going to post up a bunch of progress pics etc tonight then. Along with a ballooning budget. All this stuff gets expensive FAST.


But you are not building a shed, consider it a small house. What's a sq.,ft value of a room in a house.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> But you are not building a shed, consider it a small house. What's a sq.,ft value of a room in a house.


I know, right? I should consider a sink and small ter-lit to go in there and I can rent it out later! :vs_laugh:

Too bad the plumbing lines are so far from this area of the yard!


----------



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

It will always be level! Props!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I know, right? I should consider a sink and small ter-lit to go in there and I can rent it out later! :vs_laugh:
> 
> Too bad the plumbing lines are so far from this area of the yard!


The raft had plumbing just outside and it was self levelling. :biggrin2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, here we go guys. All comments welcome, though I'm probably not going to change anything that's already built. That'll bite me in the but later on, I'm sure 

Saturday I went out and bought:
6x - 2x10s 12' long, ground contact
109.98 Total for March 15th @ Lowes

Hauled that home, then..

10x - 2x10s 10' long, ground contact
16x - 2x10 joist hangers
1x - line level (checked, it's good)
1x - 48" x 100 ft aluminum bug screening - Pricematched with Amazon and got 12.00 off
244.73 Total for March 15th @ Lowes, second trip



1x - bungi cord set
1x - 3 1/2 cu.ft. Cement mixer Aww yeahhhh!
1x - 6' level for those long runs
1x - 7 1/4" skil saw blade (Framing) 
210.49 Total for March 15th @ Harbor Freight
I already had the plywood...

4 3/4"pressure treated plywood, 35.57 each
154.23 Total for Already Had department

Here's just the wood and the bones of the old yard junk I was going to make...













Then I unloaded all that. I know some of you guys do this every day and i applaud you. You're a man's man. I'm a tiny little girl's man (three tiny little girls, being honest) and I never do this kind of stuff. So I was plumb tuckered out. My arms felt like sausage casings that were stuffed too tight to the point of bursting. 

So we sat on toys for a while and the old man recuperated some. 

At 6:30 we started putting together the cement mixer, which you pronounce See-Ment Mixer. We didn't finish today. 














The instructions were written by some third rate translator with no knowledge of the contents of the box. But by measuring my bolts with the holes I did pretty well getting it together.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

check out these bolts (ignore the full thread ones on the left). They look all the same length, but the're about 1/8 inch different. Why even mess with a guy like that? 











By 8pm I had just about this much done. I got the top of the mixer on before stopping at 8:30 (too dark to see) but the spring operated handle wasn't going to happen. I had to use a huge C clamp to get it to even get close to mounting. I gave up and took a shower to soak my aching bones. 













And that was it for Saturday.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

That night me and Helper discussed what was coming up next. All those holes to dig and the water issues we had and....well dang it, I always wanted to drive a bobcat. Who doesn't? Am I right? 

So Sunday morning we ran off to the local rental shop to price one out for the day. They had one that was 500 bucks for the bobcat, the auger, the trailer (yes, they charge you for the trailer), and the bucket. That was too rich for my blood, so we went to my most despised place - the **** Depot. I wish Lowes rented equipment. 

There we found a mini skid for $250 + a required 50.00 insurance per day. That I could live with. So we took that sucker home and pulled it off the trailer. Helper and I fell in love with this thing. 











We drove it through our 34" gate with zero problems and immediately put it to work leveling our pad area to a gentle slope so all that water would run off. I quickly discovered (as you can tell from the pictures) that I was not the best at grading the dirt, but because she's a picky thing my Helper was. 











She even discovered an old concreted-in fence post that someone else had buried instead of pulling up. That tiny skid picked it up like nothing and threw it in my truck bed lickety split. 












While she worked on the site, I finished putting that old see-ment mixer together. Then we tried it out. 












After about 2 hours that site looked great! Water should run off the the left corner now and not stay sitting on the office area anymore. This is actually a later picture, ignore everything shown but the dirt.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Very nice, but what's up with that truck? :surprise:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

We measured out the general dimensions then using a tape measure. then we marked each hole spot with a stick. We measured them along the 12' route, then along the 10' route. We should have measured them along the 12' route and dug the holes at 11' apart to allow for a little (6" or so) overhang in the ends. Then we should have measured along the 10' route subtracting for 3" LESS on both sides for the saddle brackets, totalling negative 6 inches. We didn't know that at the time. 

This had us measured up as if the joists were 10' each, which they weren't supposed to be. 

Regardless, we put the auger on and got situated over our spot. i put a piece of masking tape on the auger at the depth I wanted (2' 2") so we would know when to stop before we hit China.












I didn't know it needed a pin as friction held it the whole time I dug 3" into the dirt. Then the whole thing started spinning. Fun times!











Helper wanted to try this one too. 











Once the holes were dug we measured again to dead center. We was smarths! 
:bangin:











Satisfied that everything was pretty close to OK, I went to cut my sonotubes with a saw. i just cut them in half to give me four 2' tubes out of the 2 tubes I had.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Here I remembered that while we did get the saddle brackets, we did not get the threaded bolts that hold them down. All that both Lowes and HD had was build-your-own style, so they could sell you the bolts with nuts and washers for 15 bucks apiece or more. 
So off we went to lowes again. 

And when we arrived, viper was in the back of my head saying, "You gotta get sum steeeeeel in there, boy! Whatcha buildin, a dog house?" 

They didn't have any mesh that I could bend but I did find these 16" pieces of iron in the concrete section. I cleaned them out at 2.82 a piece. Literally. none were left. 











Here's the bolts I got. They come with two nuts and two washers. People steel the washers and nuts though so you have to grab some from the other rods in the display. 











And that was the Lowe's trip for Sunday. We normally take Sunday off because we're Christians, but because of time constraints (ox in the ditch) we elected to get our dozer work and piers started before the rain set in. 

Here's the costs:

4x - 5/8" x 16" long galv. Threaded rod @ 10.48 ea. To go into the concrete piers
4x - 6" Post Saddle brackets @ 36.99 ea.
4x - Carpenter's pencils @ 0.55 ea.
207.93 total for March 17th @ Lowes


Also, I missed this one on the Saturday 16th list, but this forum won't let me edit a post. 



2x - SoloTube concrete forms, 12" x 48"
(to cut in half for 4 2' forms) @ 15.97 ea.
12x - 80lb bags quickrete concrete @ 4.30 ea.
90.43 Total for March 16th @ Lowes






We got back and put our 2' sonotubes in the holes. We didn't measure them to center again - we should have. Our auger had more pins that didn't come with it. These pins hold the auger head straight. Our holes, we found out later, were mostly straight, but one kanted off at a weird angle. 



We did measure 1 1/2" above the tubes to cone over the concrete (for water shed) and to allow for the bolt sticking out for the saddle brackets. We used the line level for these and it, and the 6' level, showed us to be spot on with all four. 






















I fired up my new mixer and put it next to a tube. 






















That's when I realized we forgot the "plastic barrier" - hefty 33 gallon bags. We pulled the tubes back out and put them in the bags, then replaced them in the dirt hole.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

My tubes finally ready, I got a bucket full of water and put a quart measuring cup in it to make my concrete. 











That harbor freight mixer did SO well and it was not as noisy as some youtube videos make you think it is. In fact, it wasn't as loud as one of those loud talking guys you always seem to land next to in the bank line. 

I mixed it up 1 80 lb bag at a time because I had a hard time tossing the bags up on top. I'd throw one bag up, pour in 3 quarts plus 1 cup of water, then hack at the bag with my shovel until it split and dropped the concrete inside the barrel. Then I turned it on. 

Something else I didn't mention earlier too, I didn't put the mixer together entirely. i left out those paddles that go inside. Why? Because if I put them in it would be tougher to clean, but also because I couldn't shovel the concrete out as easily. Instead, i just put the bottom bolts in the mixer and tightened them up tight so they didn't leak. The top bolts were too far up the barrel to leak, even when tilted to almost 90 degrees. 

To mix the stuff, I just turn it on for about 10 seconds to slosh the water around, then I tilt it once to the first notch for until is starts sliding around. If it doesn't slide around right (sometimes it just rides on top of the water) I just stick my shovel in there, pry it against the outside lip, and let it stir one revolution. After that it falls around great. 
Finally, I drop it one more notch to just shy of 90 degrees and it all tumbles around perfectly like clothes in a clothes dryer. 

Anyway, I mixed up my first bag and dumped it in the hole. Then I put my 4 rebar posts in like so. (Thanks Viper)











Once it was filled to the top and domed over, I grabbed the saddle brackets and their rods. They have a cover that goes over the rod so that you don't have to drill a hole in your beams to put them together. 















We got two of the piers set and ready, then it got too late to see well again so that was it for Sunday. We resolved to power wash the skid steer in the morning before taking it back. Nice plan, right?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Monday morning started off ready to roll, bright eyed and bushy tailed. We had two posts in and a nice sloping pad of dirt. What could go wrong? 

First thing we did was run over and look at our piers. One looked fantastic. The other, not so much. The top pin was pointing off to one side at a slant. That didn't make any sense because we had it all lined up when we left the night before. Earthquake? Maybe the sonotube busted out the side? 

I stepped over it and tried to wiggle it. It was in there solid. Hmm. This was not going to work. Thoughts of busting it up with a sledge hammer and starting over began trickling into my brain. No thank you. 

I turned to the skid steer, ready to be returned today in about an hour...We'd need that puppy one more day. Geesh, this was costing...

I put a tow rope on the saddle bracket bolt and to the top of the machine. Helper yanked it out of the ground like a rotten tooth. 











As I lead to before, even with our mistaken measurements this was way off. As it turned out, our hole was drilled straight for about 6 inches but then it took a lean to the right. The tube looked fine when i dropped it in, but with the weight of the concrete in it, it slowly fell toward the lean over the course of the night. Thankfull, it set up fine in the tube, but the hole was toasted. 

We put the pier aside and reattached the auger, then braced it against some wooden stakes to re-dig the hole semi-straight. That didn't work because it broke my stakes. So we dug a hole a foot over, which was slow and tough because the auger kept running back into the soft dirt of the original hole. This took about 1 1/2 hours to get figured out. :vs_mad:


Finally with a set of post hole diggers, the auger, and a shovel (and a ton of patience), we got it dug out, albeit larger than necessary. I filled in the hole and packed it down to about the right depth (several tries of lifting the pier out and in again...). We then set the pier in and backfilled around it. Many man-hours and a whole day more with the skid steer, which we loved but really can't afford to rent every day of the project. I may buy one outright in the future though. I can just see me using it to move furniture around the house, haha!


We then moved to the other piers. We had 2 left. Thankfully they filled up fine and things from that point went without a hitch. 












We reattached the bucket to the skid after getting the piers in and re-graded the area from all that digging. Then i took it to the nearest car wash and sprayed the crap off of it and got it turned in. Ouch. 

2 days rental of mini skid steer with 12" post auger
@ 250 + 50 mandatory insurance from **** Depot
592.99 Total for March 18th @ Home Depot




And that was the end of Monday.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> Very nice, but what's up with that truck? :surprise:


That's my baby. A project for another day. :biggrin2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Tuesday we gathered tools and headed out. We used a socket wrench to mount the saddle brackets up tight, aligning them using one of our 2x10s. 















These metal caps go over the nuts and sit in the bracket to keep your boards from scratching on the bolt top. The curved edges go toward the bracket posts. 













While measuring with the 2x10, this is where we realized we should have measured to 11 foot instead of 12 to allow for overhang. We had 1" overhang. Very close to needing to dig it up and do it all over again. Those screws or nails need some meat to hang on to.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Now it was time to build the beams. I thought this might be tough. i wasn't disappointed. Helper has a ton of enthusiasm, but she's just a little girl when it boils down to brass tacks.











Still, when we marked the crowns (with arrows, like shown) we were able to get the first beam together. Boards are not straight from the store. I bet you didn't know that. They curve, twist, and they're cut crooked as all get-out. We decided to give priority to the crown side, meaning we would line up one end until it was flush on the end grain, then line up the crown edge and put a screw in. The first screw was about 6" from the end and 3" from the crowned top. Then we'd move down about 16" and see if it was still flush. If not, we'd move it like a turkey call from the far end until it was flush again and drive another screw in about 3" from the bottom of the board (opposite the crown). We repeated this until the last 2 foot or so and believe it or not Helper had the guts and strength to pull that board in line ever time while i drove the screws in (she couldn't handle the twist). Then I drove the screws in for the last 2 feet until they got started, then I bent the boards to flush and she tried putting the screws in. After a bit, she got it. We had our first beam. The crown was pretty close to flush all across. The part opposite the crown was not as flush, but since it sits on the saddle in screwed in spots, we figured the part the plywood sits on was more important. 













The opposite side - notice the lack of conformity because as I said, even store bought boards are not even close to straight.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

The second beam was much more off. I had to get out my old car jack and pull them back in line. 













I used one of my 2x8's from my old project to cut out blocks to fill the saddles to 6". They were 5" long where we had no overhang and 10" where we did. 











That's when I realized that a 2" board is too big. I had to cut them down with my skilsaw by this much (big part goes in the saddle). Then I used a flathead screwdriver to drive the small piece off like carving wood. 











That fit perfectly. Stupidly, I put the blocks in the joist side of the beam to take up the slack. That's another mistake, but I didn't know that right now. i just wanted it to look good at the front of the beam I was so proud of, and blocks ain't purty. We mounted them up and leveled them out.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> The second beam was much more off. I had to get out my old car jack and pull them back in line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The only picture that showed up was the one with her using the jack, I guess you forgot about the sucker nails. 


Lumber from the store is always longer anywhere up to an inch and you can never trust them to be square. It sounds like you got dry timbers, wets bend easier. Did you place your buckets and cut the beams to allow the end joists to fit in the 12 FT?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

So now I want to know some details of what you have.
Outside to outside the length of both beams?
Outside to outside the width of both ends?
Corner to corner on the angle the measurements both ways. 



Don't panic if things don't appear right, every thing can be fixed.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The only picture that showed up was the one with her using the jack, I guess you forgot about the sucker nails.
> 
> 
> Lumber from the store is always longer anywhere up to an inch and you can never trust them to be square. It sounds like you got dry timbers, wets bend easier. Did you place your buckets and cut the beams to allow the end joists to fit in the 12 FT?


 Longer too, eh? I was surprised at how un-straight it was. I guess I'm lucky it's not shorter, the way they do things. Those sucker nails, I asked the home store guy about them and they said "no idea what that is".  That's where I came up with the scissor method and the farm jack. I'll measure them up tomorrow and let you know how long the beams are. I know for sure that they're longer than intended. My shed is bigger now than i thought it was going to be. Bonus?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Longer too, eh? I was surprised at how un-straight it was. I guess I'm lucky it's not shorter, the way they do things. Those sucker nails, I asked the home store guy about them and they said "no idea what that is".  That's where I came up with the scissor method and the farm jack. I'll measure them up tomorrow and let you know how long the beams are. I know for sure that they're longer than intended. My shed is bigger now than i thought it was going to be. Bonus?



Hmm, now I am getting your pictures. :glasses:
Get those measurement as close to accurate as you can. You ain't done nothing I haven't fixed before. After correcting mistakes is when you can say I am experienced. If you can't fix things you just figure out where and how to hide it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Hmm, now I am getting your pictures. :glasses:
> Get those measurement as close to accurate as you can. You ain't done nothing I haven't fixed before. After correcting mistakes is when you can say I am experienced. If you can't fix things you just figure out where and how to hide it.


 Before we start fixing things, i better finish up Tuesday....  After getting the front beam level and screwed into the saddles, used a square and string to make sure it was square with our rear beam before screwing it down. It looked pretty dang good!  Then out of the blue I kicked over a rock and found a frog hiding in the freshly turned dirt. We took a 10 minute break while we played with him, I mean studied this interesting bit of the local fauna for science. Yeah, science!  Next came the insect screening. This is tough aluminum stuff.  I put it down and trimmed it around the posts with tin snips, allowing for about 10 inches of overhang for the end cap boards that aren't up yet.  I ran the screen up the side of the beams about 5 inches and stapled them with heavy duty staples using my METAL SEARS stapler.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Before we start fixing things, i better finish up Tuesday....  After getting the front beam level and screwed into the saddles, used a square and string to make sure it was square with our rear beam before screwing it down. It looked pretty dang good!  Then out of the blue I kicked over a rock and found a frog hiding in the freshly turned dirt. We took a 10 minute break while we played with him, I mean studied this interesting bit of the local fauna for science. Yeah, science!  Next came the insect screening. This is tough aluminum stuff.  I put it down and trimmed it around the posts with tin snips, allowing for about 10 inches of overhang for the end cap boards that aren't up yet.  I ran the screen up the side of the beams about 5 inches and stapled them with heavy duty staples using my METAL SEARS stapler.


 You do not check a building for square with a 2 ft square, get those measurements. 



All 6 of them.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Used to be you could use anything from Sears and it'd be 200% ready for anything. This stapler lasted about 10 staples in that ground-treated beam before it started freezing up and choking up bits of black PLASTIC. So, metal on the outside to fool you, plastic where it counts. Thanks Sears! You're dead to me now. 


 











I did manage to run the second line of screen though, running it under the first line with about a foot of overlap, which i'll tack to the joist bottom as we go. 



 










I ran back to lowes and picked up this T50 from Arrow. The sales rep said he owned it and it ate anything he threw at it. We'll see how it goes. 



 










Need to put some joists in or I won't be able to staple the screen to it as I go, and i don't want to try to reach in from the outside or stand on my tightly stretched screen and blow the staples. 

 









And that's where I noticed that I should have put those blocks on the OUTSIDE of my saddles. Remember the measuring issue I talked about before? Well, now all of my joists were off by about 1 3/4 inches, give or take. Arrgh!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Stop. Stop. Get those measurement and we will figure everything out. We can get you back on track but you are getting deeper into it.
You will need 4 more hangers and this is the exact stapler you want. It will take different staples. 

https://www.amazon.ca/STANLEY-PHT15...ocphy=9001484&hvtargid=pla-451719569002&psc=1


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Then it dawned on me that that's almost exactly the distance of the 2x10s, and low and behold, my joists only hit along a 10' area on the beam! So my beam became 1 3/4" wider with the addition of one of my 10 foot long 2x10s tied to it. 












It was perfect, and solid as a rock. the joists went up in short order and fit like little gloves. 












And that was it for Tuesday because it started to rain on us. We tarped up the leftover concrete bags and threw plywood over the joists to protect them from leaves. Then we left it alone the rest of Tuesday. We took Wednesday off altogether to nurse sore muscles. 

And that's where we are today. Looks like we'll be making a lowes trip every day of this project, haha. 


2x 1250 count Industrial Staples for staple gun @ 3.98 ea
1x Arrow T50 staple gun @ 18.98 ea
27.86 total for March 19th @ Lowes


Ok, Neal. Now let's work on stuff I did wrong  

I'll get those measurements today, but I don't know what you mean by "all six".


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Stop. Stop. Get those measurement and we will figure everything out. We can get you back on track but you are getting deeper into it.
> You will need 4 more hangers and this is the exact stapler you want. It will take different staples.
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/STANLEY-PHT15...ocphy=9001484&hvtargid=pla-451719569002&psc=1



Haha, i can't stop because all that was Tuesday, remember? 

You're all caught up now though. It sitting now just like that last picture but with 3/4 plywood sitting on top to keep the rain and leaves off the screen.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Haha, i can't stop because all that was Tuesday, remember?
> 
> You're all caught up now though. It sitting now just like that last picture but with 3/4 plywood sitting on top to keep the rain and leaves off the screen.





You do realize I am writing things here to help you and you are not reading or not believing it or just not taking the time to understand it.


If you don't agree or understand ask a question. My first question was asked answered have you changed your mind. 



If you make mistakes, that's life, if you say oh well and carry on. you are not learning.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You do realize I am writing things here to help you and you are not reading or not believing it or just not taking the time to understand it.
> 
> 
> If you don't agree or understand ask a question. My first question was asked answered have you changed your mind.
> ...



Oh, no I wholeheartedly agree! In the case of the squaring issue I thought the string stretched tightly making 90 degrees should be good. Everything you see that I did wrong I posted so you'd know what I'm working with and point out the mistakes. 

I'm enjoying this project and your input very much, don't think for an instant that I'm bucking back at all. Sometimes things over the internet lack tone, and i apologize for that. 

I just found a thing that said I can use a 3-4-5 rule for the corners to make sure they're square by measuring 3' on one side, 4' on the other side, and the distance between those should be 5'. Is that ok or should I use another thing? I really don't know what 6 measurements you mean.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Oh, no I wholeheartedly agree! In the case of the squaring issue I thought the string stretched tightly making 90 degrees should be good. Everything you see that I did wrong I posted so you'd know what I'm working with and point out the mistakes.
> 
> I'm enjoying this project and your input very much, don't think for an instant that I'm bucking back at all. Sometimes things over the internet lack tone, and i apologize for that.
> 
> I just found a thing that said I can use a 3-4-5 rule for the corners to make sure they're square by measuring 3' on one side, 4' on the other side, and the distance between those should be 5'. Is that ok or should I use another thing? I really don't know what 6 measurements you mean.


The width at both ends, the length of both side and the diagonal both ways. All six, let me teach.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This little arrow is how far from the end?


GrapeApe said:


> Oh, no I wholeheartedly agree! In the case of the squaring issue I thought the string stretched tightly making 90 degrees should be good. Everything you see that I did wrong I posted so you'd know what I'm working with and point out the mistakes.
> 
> I'm enjoying this project and your input very much, don't think for an instant that I'm bucking back at all. Sometimes things over the internet lack tone, and i apologize for that.
> 
> I just found a thing that said I can use a 3-4-5 rule for the corners to make sure they're square by measuring 3' on one side, 4' on the other side, and the distance between those should be 5'. Is that ok or should I use another thing? I really don't know what 6 measurements you mean.


 This little arrow is how far from the end? It should be 15 1/4" or 13 3/4 depending on where the end joist goes.


Do you have a plan for putting the insect screen and critter mesh under the frame.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> This little arrow is how far from the end?
> This little arrow is how far from the end? It should be 15 1/4" or 13 3/4 depending on where the end joist goes.
> 
> 
> Do you have a plan for putting the insect screen and critter mesh under the frame.



Good catch! That first joist is exactly 15 1/4" from the end. I remembered that trick from what you told me before. I plan to staple the screen to the joists from underneath as I roll it out, that way I can reach under the joist as I go and stay off the screen that's already stretched tight.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Good catch! That first joist is exactly 15 1/4" from the end. I remembered that trick from what you told me before. I plan to staple the screen to the joists from underneath as I roll it out, that way I can reach under the joist as I go and stay off the screen that's already stretched tight.


And the critter screen?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> And the critter screen?



Um....I thought they were one in the same with aluminum screen... :surprise:

What should I use for critters? And do I just screw it to the bottom of the bug screen?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Um....I thought they were one in the same with aluminum screen... :surprise:
> 
> What should I use for critters? And do I just screw it to the bottom of the bug screen?


 Aluminum will last about 6 month in contact with the treated lumber.
I think I posted links to nylon and a galvanized screen, bigger critters love living in insulation.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Aluminum will last about 6 month in contact with the treated lumber.
> I think I posted links to nylon and a galvanized screen, bigger critters love living in insulation.


I could have sworn it was aluminum. I'll pick up some nylon today. And get some galvanized screen for the bigger beasts. I'm putting them both in the same place, right? The critter screen isn't just around the perimeter. Meaning I have to buy the same amount of coverage for each.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I could have sworn it was aluminum. I'll pick up some nylon today. And get some galvanized screen for the bigger beasts. I'm putting them both in the same place, right? The critter screen isn't just around the perimeter. Meaning I have to buy the same amount of coverage for each.


When we have done this with sheds we never used treated wood, but we built the box and made sure it was square put the screens on and then turned it over in place. I suppose you could cut them in 18" wide strips fold up the sides and put them in from above. But now I am thinking about the staples and how long they will last?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> When we have done this with sheds we never used treated wood, but we built the box and made sure it was square put the screens on and then turned it over in place. I suppose you could cut them in 18" wide strips fold up the sides and put them in from above. But now I am thinking about the staples and how long they will last?


Hmm, you're right. I've seen them rust out before. What would you use to attach them in building?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Hmm, you're right. I've seen them rust out before. What would you use to attach them in building?


 It's the treated wood that is a problem. 

If you put them both in together and wrap them up the sides and ends a couple inches staple one end first and pull the other end tight and staple it and then the sides. Over lap them a couple inches, Then after you could slide a 2x4 under the over lap and screw the ends of that. If it still droops we can put a block between the joist above the the 2x4 and screw down into it to hold the centre up. What ever siding or sheeting that covers the joists would trap the screens in place around the outside. 



I want those measurement to check your square before you play screens.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> It's the treated wood that is a problem.
> 
> If you put them both in together and wrap them up the sides and ends a couple inches staple one end first and pull the other end tight and staple it and then the sides. Over lap them a couple inches, Then after you could slide a 2x4 under the over lap and screw the ends of that. If it still droops we can put a block between the joist above the the 2x4 and screw down into it to hold the centre up. What ever siding or sheeting that covers the joists would trap the screens in place around the outside.
> 
> ...



Ok I got the measurements done. I am off by a small bit. Do you think it'll toss the whole thing? :sad:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Forgot to attach. All of these are outside edges to outside edges.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Forgot to attach. All of these are outside edges to outside edges.


 You are close but not square, 
I read that wrong the first time, you are out of square by 1/4" Line up a sheet of plywood and see how it lines up with the joists. 

When the sides are not the same length like you have you would mark the end at 10'11" and check the diagonal to that mark. 



So you dug your holes at 10 x 12 with out doing a lot of thinking.:wink2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok I got the measurements done. I am off by a small bit. Do you think it'll toss the whole thing? :sad:


We have to deal with the end joists, did you say you had some 10 foot 2x8s


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We have to deal with the end joists, did you say you had some 10 foot 2x8s



I do! I figured I'd just cut a 12' one down to 11' though. Do you have a sneaky trick in mind :wink2:


I found my critter mesh (just got back from Lowes) in the garden section. it's 1/4" galvanized and the guy said I could use galvanized large staples to tie it on. Galvanized plays well with treated lumber. 

They look like nails bent in a U shape. They're called...fence staples, haha! I still would have never figured it out!

Anyway, the nylon screen and critter screen are now in my hot little hands. Just waiting to figure out what if anything I need to do about that 1/2 inch.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I do! I figured I'd just cut a 12' one down to 11' though. Do you have a sneaky trick in mind :wink2:
> 
> 
> I found my critter mesh (just got back from Lowes) in the garden section. it's 1/4" galvanized and the guy said I could use galvanized large staples to tie it on. Galvanized plays well with treated lumber.
> ...


You would have remeasure but you would only move one side 1/4 to make it square when you measure 1/2" difference. 

It will be fine and I won't tell anyone. 



The plan for the end joist. Hopefully you will make out the picture


screw a block inside each corner just cut out a notch for the saddle with lots of screws. 

Hang a 2x8 joist with a hanger 1 1/2 inches from the end,
Screw a 2x10 to the side of the 2x8 with 3 screws every 16 inches



Questions???


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You would have remeasure but you would only move one side 1/4 to make it square when you measure 1/2" difference.
> 
> It will be fine and I won't tell anyone.
> 
> ...



I don't fully understand that. What I *think* you're telling me to do is put a 2x8 on a joist hanger like it was the end joist, but instead 1 1/2" from the end. It will look like all my other joists but be 8" instead of 10. {I think this will hit my saddles.}

Then put a 2x10 10 foot long (?) on the outside of my beams as the "real" end joist, and just screw it to the 2x8 I just hung. Is that about right?

Is that better than just cutting a 12 foot one down to 11'?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I don't fully understand that. What I *think* you're telling me to do is put a 2x8 on a joist hanger like it was the end joist, but instead 1 1/2" from the end. It will look like all my other joists but be 8" instead of 10. I think this will hit my saddles.
> 
> Then put a 2x10 10 foot long (?) on the outside of my beams as the "real" end joist, and just screw it to the 2x8 I just hung. Is that about right?
> 
> Is that better than just cutting a 12 foot one down to 11'?



1. *cut and place a block in the corners over and around the saddle 
*


2. *Place the 2x8 in hanger on the block 1 1/2" from the end. *



3. *Cut a 2x10 joist to go between the beams like all the others and screw that to the 2x8. 
*

*When you put a 2xblock in the corner there will be a void where the saddle is, ignore that . *


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I don't fully understand that. What I *think* you're telling me to do is put a 2x8 on a joist hanger like it was the end joist, but instead 1 1/2" from the end. It will look like all my other joists but be 8" instead of 10. {I think this will hit my saddles.}
> 
> Then put a 2x10 10 foot long (?) on the outside of my beams as the "real" end joist, and just screw it to the 2x8 I just hung. Is that about right?
> 
> Is that better than just cutting a 12 foot one down to 11'?


see the shape of 2x10 or 2x8 block


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> see the shape of 2x10 or 2x8 block



Roger that. I'll cut it and pic it and see if we're on the same page. Fingers crossed!


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Is this right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Is this right?


Opps line the top with the top of the beam so the notch will be smaller.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Is this right?


No and I corrected my last post


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Like this? Do I do it for all 4 or just one side?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Like this? Do I do it for all 4 or just one side?


Yes and now most of the holes in the hanger will be usable and you could poke a couple more holes if you want. :wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes and now most of the holes in the hanger will be usable and you could poke a couple more holes if you want. :wink2:



Ok, and I do it for all four corners?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

OK I'll get that done and hang the 2x8s. I'll have to postpone it till tomorrow though, i'm fresh out of time today.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, and I do it for all four corners?





I hope you are feeling good about it now, I know I do. 



We will have to fix any that are like this.


Remove the joist and hanger place a block against the beam, replace the hanger and cut the joist to ft.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I hope you are feeling good about it now, I know I do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That will be fixed when I pull it 1/2" to be on square, right? I have a hefty fence post right by this that I can probably use to jack it forward before screwing in the joists. Think that'd be OK?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That will be fixed when I pull it 1/2" to be on square, right? I have a hefty fence post right by this that I can probably use to jack it forward before screwing in the joists. Think that'd be OK?


 Yes you did say you were moving the block, forgot. 

If you have a digging bar or even a shovel it should just pry over. 

So you will have the 10'11" on both ends. If you have the screws out remove the screws on the other end of the same beam and shuffle it that 1/4 and make it square. Equal on the diagonals. Don't force it just get a bigger hammer. Then you will be in great shape.:wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes you did say you were moving the block, forgot.
> 
> If you have a digging bar or even a shovel it should just pry over.
> 
> So you will have the 10'11" on both ends. If you have the screws out remove the screws on the other end of the same beam and shuffle it that 1/4 and make it square. Equal on the diagonals. Don't force it just get a bigger hammer. Then you will be in great shape.:wink2:



Today the plan is to pull the beam back 1/2" to "square" using the jack, then screw on the end joists, starting with the 2x8 in the hanger and then a 2x10 on the end screwed to that like the same way I made my beams. 

Then I'll string up my nylon bug screen. 
I'll cover the bug screen with 1/4" critter screen, secured with those galvanized fence staples that look like a nail with two points instead of a head, and bent in a U shape. 

That'll probably be it for today because the rockwall isn't in stock locally. I have to order it and have it shipped in a few days. 

I may wait to do the screening until it comes in though, because if i screen it and then leave it uncovered for a week it'll collect all kinds of debris. I need to ponder that a bit. I could just cover it with plyboards until the insulation comes in.

Also, to keep up with costs...

4 36"x10' rolls garden wire 1/4" "critter screen
1 roll 36"x100' nylon bug screen
111.82 Total for March 21th @ Lowes


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Today the plan is to pull the beam back 1/2" to "square" using the jack, then screw on the end joists, starting with the 2x8 in the hanger and then a 2x10 on the end screwed to that like the same way I made my beams.
> 
> Then I'll string up my nylon bug screen.
> I'll cover the bug screen with 1/4" critter screen, secured with those galvanized fence staples that look like a nail with two points instead of a head, and bent in a U shape.
> ...


 You were going to have a tarp or something on the floor to keep water out, you could use the same tarp to keep leaves out. 



Take the few minutes and try to square it up that 1/4" it shouldn't be hard to do. Once the screws are out of both ends you can just take something with weight like a 2x10 length and just bump the end. We would have a sludge hammer but often use what ever is handy.


You can drive a stake in the ground about 3 ft away and then cut a 2x4 that sit on the ground at the stake and goes against the end of the beam just near the top. Then hammer the 2x4 down at the beam, as it goes down it is moving the beam.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You were going to have a tarp or something on the floor to keep water out, you could use the same tarp to keep leaves out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok boss! Got the side posts straightened up. The jack worked a charm because that fence post is buried 3' in the ground and it's 6" thick, haha!

I also got the ends put on. There was a little gap where we cut around the saddle, but you said that was OK. Should I spray foam it for giggles to keep the air out? 

I did NOT get the screens on though. I had to make two trips to the store, one to get boards (sawed one too short) and one to get more spikes. I'll post the charges up in a minute. 

Tomorrow and Sunday is rain. I think Monday's dry though (as of right now). I'll get the screen up then and then we can put insulation in there and top it with plyboards and 6 mil, if I understood you right before! Getting excited!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok boss! Got the side posts straightened up. The jack worked a charm because that fence post is buried 3' in the ground and it's 6" thick, haha!
> 
> I also got the ends put on. There was a little gap where we cut around the saddle, but you said that was OK. Should I spray foam it for giggles to keep the air out?
> 
> ...


 I think you have treated plywood? How thick and is it Tongue and groove?


If it isn't T&G there should be block under the edges, they don't have to touch or be screwed to the joist. It is to spread the load so if one bends a little under load the other will bend with it or support it. You joists are more than 7 feet long so you should have bridging. Bridging won't work for you so you would do 2x4 blocks flat flush with the bottom at or near the centre. We usually do a centre line and off set the blocks, every other one on on one side of the line to make them easier to nail. These blocks are to help spread the load and stop the joists from twisting and warping. 

In a perfect world you could cut all the blocks to something near 14 1/2" for most of them but often the lay out isn't perfect and the block should be the average of the space from both end of the space at the beam
The odd ones at the ends, measure both sides and do the average,
When you are doing this what out for a built in curve if the blocks are a little to big or to small you can build in a curve that screws up the lay out. Then you just adjust the next block to correct the next one a carry on. 











When you do the plywood, lay two sheets up end to end and make sure you are happy with how straight they are sitting before nailing them down.
Don't forget the glue. We just stop short of the 4 ft when we lay the glue so we don't get any in the joint on the sides, it screws up the fit and makes gaps, and every thing goes goofy after that. :biggrin2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I think you have treated plywood? How thick and is it Tongue and groove?


My lowes doesn't have T&G 3/4" plywood, so I just got pressure treated 3/4". It weighs about 2 tons if you try to lift it :vs_laugh:






Nealtw said:


> If it isn't T&G there should be block under the edges, they don't have to touch or be screwed to the joist. It is to spread the load so if one bends a little under load the other will bend with it or support it. You joists are more than 7 feet long so you should have bridging. Bridging won't work for you so you would do 2x4 blocks flat flush with the bottom at or near the centre. We usually do a centre line and off set the blocks, every other one on on one side of the line to make them easier to nail. These blocks are to help spread the load and stop the joists from twisting and warping.
> 
> In a perfect world you could cut all the blocks to something near 14 1/2" for most of them but often the lay out isn't perfect and the block should be the average of the space from both end of the space at the beam
> The odd ones at the ends, measure both sides and do the average,
> When you are doing this what out for a built in curve if the blocks are a little to big or to small you can build in a curve that screws up the lay out. Then you just adjust the next block to correct the next one a carry on.


Like a fire block in a wall? You said they don't need to be nailed to the joist, but if not how do they stay in place? 





Nealtw said:


> When you do the plywood, lay two sheets up end to end and make sure you are happy with how straight they are sitting before nailing them down.
> Don't forget the glue. We just stop short of the 4 ft when we lay the glue so we don't get any in the joint on the sides, it screws up the fit and makes gaps, and every thing goes goofy after that. :biggrin2:


What kind of glue is best for this? I was born goofy so I really have to watch out for traps!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> My lowes doesn't have T&G 3/4" plywood, so I just got pressure treated 3/4". It weighs about 2 tons if you try to lift it :vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After you nail down one row of sheets you hold the block flat half under the edge of the plywood while you drive screws thru the plywood and that all it takes. You are just doing what the tongue and groove would do, those can be plywood or ?? 


GLUE


There is a bunch of them and they all say sub floor on them, they come in two sizes, we use the big ones but the smaller ones will fit in a normal caulking gun, I would expect to use about 3 of the big ones so maybe 9 of the small ones, Buy extra, and take back what you don't use. You can work in the rain with this stuff but keep the tubes dry. 

Cut the end so you get about a 1/4" bead and break the seal inside with a piece of wire or something. 



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Liquid-...-Deck-Construction-Adhesive-LNP-902/202203997


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> After you nail down one row of sheets you hold the block flat half under the edge of the plywood while you drive screws thru the plywood and that all it takes. You are just doing what the tongue and groove would do, those can be plywood or ??
> 
> 
> GLUE
> ...



My plywood hits the joists, do I just screw the blocks to the underside of the boards where they hit the joists? 

I'll pick up glue on the next trip! 

For updated books, here's the trip today: 

1x 3/4" Treated plywood @ 35.57 ea. (I was short 1)

2x 2x8 ground treated boards @ 10.88 each
1x 2x10 ground treated @ 12.57 ea
75.81 Total for March 22nd @ Lowes 
4x joist hangers @ 1.40 ea. 
6.06 Total for March 22nd @ Lowes (forgot the hangers)
1x - 3 1/2" GRK screws 1 lb @ 29.98
1x - 2 1/2" GRK screws 1 lb @ 29.98
1x - 3" GRK screws 1 lb @ 29.98
1x - 100 5/16x3" GRK Structural Lag Screws
146.68 Total for March 22nd @ Lowes (2nd trip)


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@GrapeApe
A few questions about the shed now that you have the floor under control. 

*What is the thinking about*.
power supply, How much and how will it get there. 

Is the front the 12 foot side
Door or doors, center of front? Size?

windows width then height, where? 

walls, 2x6?
Roof style or shape? gutters?

flat ceiling for adequate insulation and venting? 

wall sheeting and siding or??


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> My plywood hits the joists, do I just screw the blocks to the underside of the boards where they hit the joists?
> 
> I'll pick up glue on the next trip!
> 
> ...


_*My plywood hits the joists, do I just screw the blocks to the underside of the boards where they hit the joists? 
*_


When you screw down the first sheet, there will be 6spaces that are between the joists with nothing under the plywood, 12 to 14 inch block flat half under the edge of the plywood in those spaces. 3 screws 3 inches apart across that space.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> @GrapeApe
> A few questions about the shed now that you have the floor under control.
> 
> *What is the thinking about*.
> ...






For the power supply, I planned to run 220 to an outside port on the side of the house (15 feet away or so). I run a welder sometimes (poorly) and would like to have another plug close to my projects. 

Then run 110 from there underground to a junction box on the shed that I can flip on and off from outside like the air conditioner as an emergency disconnect. 

I'll then run plugs to every wall but the front 12', which has doors and windows in it, recessed can lights (maybe?) in the roof, and a 110v mini split AC/Heat system on the right 10' wall. 

The front is the 12' side facing the house. I plan to use 2 doors (french) with blinds inside if I can find them. Then I'll have two small windows on that side too. Kinda like this:










Think that'll all be OK? 





Walls, I was figuring on 2x4 since I'm in a small area already, but if you think I need 2x6 we'll consider that. My house is 2x4. 

Roof style: 

Kinda like this. I don't want a bend in it like this one, but this is the general idea. 











Wall outside: I thought I'd use that plywood that has vertical stripes carved into it that's about 1/4" thick and it's already tongue and groove. Here's something that uses it:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@ GrapeApe 



Red is plywood blue are blocks half under plywood edge


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Don't use 1/4" thick plywood on the outside. T1-11 is 5/8 thick. Make sure to prime and paint the face and also the bottom edges.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Plywood...al-0-593-in-x-48-in-x-120-in-705984/202093944






.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Visual aid:


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Your power plan will only work if the welder plug is 20 amps or less. You are not permitted to put regular duplex receptacles on circuits larger than 20 amps. A sub panel in the shed will be needed for larger circuits.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> Don't use 1/4" thick plywood on the outside. T1-11 is 5/8 thick. Make sure to prime and paint the face and also the bottom edges.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Plywood...al-0-593-in-x-48-in-x-120-in-705984/202093944
> .


That visual aid was exactly what I was talking about. I do plan to paint it a slate greyish color with white around the windows. 



joed said:


> Your power plan will only work if the welder plug is 20 amps or less. You are not permitted to put regular duplex receptacles on circuits larger than 20 amps. A sub panel in the shed will be needed for larger circuits.



Awww man! My welder is 30 amps. If it was 20 amps the office would pull more than that with me welding anyway and blow the breaker, right? I think the "realistic" amp draw is 24 amps. 

Guess I'll have to settle for an outdoor GFCI and then run that to the shed. I just hope folks don't dig into it when I give up the ghost and move. Any way to make it easy to know where it is from the ground?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

joed said:


> Your power plan will only work if the welder plug is 20 amps or less. You are not permitted to put regular duplex receptacles on circuits larger than 20 amps. A sub panel in the shed will be needed for larger circuits.


Could he run a 3 wire to the shed if the breaker is gfci and get two 20 amp circuits.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Nealtw said:


> Could he run a 3 wire to the shed if the breaker is gfci and get two 20 amp circuits.


Yes he could but that would limit his welder to a small 20 amp version.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

joed said:


> Yes he could but that would limit his welder to a small 20 amp version.



I think he said He was planning on a sub panel near where the welder will be, so that would just be question on size of wire from the main whether he would run one at a time or both.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I got the potion part (portion part? IDK. it's an old saying meaning biggest part) of the netting/critter guard on yesterday. I should have it finished today. The sides where it doesn't reach over the edge is a hangup though. I think i'll put a board under both sides and screw it through from the beams to pinch the critter guard shut there. 

My wife came out yesterday and saw me doing all this and said, "That looks like a bunch of 'extra'. Are you sure they're not pulling your leg?" haha. 

Rockwall is ordered too. It should be here in a week, then the plywood will go on. 

Recapping, today I'll finish the bug/critter guard and probably do the 2x4 supports in the middle to support the plywood edge. Running low on dough so I'm trying to get it plastic'ed in so it's ready for more rain without problems until I get another influx of cash. 

Budget spent:
COMFORTBATT R-30 Stone Wool Batt Insulation with Sound Barrier @ 61.50 per 6 pack 
332.87 Total for April 2 @ Lowes online


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Luckily today I was able to cut all my blocks to 14 1/4" and they fit just fine. Except the ends, but we already knew they'd be different. 












I put more 2x8s under the places where the critter guard overlapped with 4" screws so I could put screws in from the top. This way I pinch the mesh and bug screen together at the ends and on each joist. This should keep the cats out. 











I also marked all my studs on the outside of my beams so i can pop lines easily on my plywood. 












Is this how the plywood should go? Or should i lay it the other way? Does it matter? How many licks DOES it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?












Also, with that view of the house where should I run the electric? Not ready for that yet, but just trying to get an idea. 

I had to buy those 4" screws too so..

10.79 Total for April 3 @ Lowes


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Luckily today I was able to cut all my blocks to 14 1/4" and they fit just fine. Except the ends, but we already knew they'd be different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Run the plywood the other way and off set the end joints. 

For power you can make a hole thru the screen and insulation carefully measure so after the walls are up you can drill the hole and drop in a 1 1/4" conduit. Right beside one of the sides joists will bring you up in the middle of a 2x6 wall. 



When you build walls you want to understand California corners to make wiring easier to get around the corners.
It is looking good.


Pick out the windows and doors, and get the length and width and the windows get the thickness.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Run the plywood the other way and off set the end joints.


Got it. That sounds familiar. You probably already told me to do that. :wink2:





Nealtw said:


> For power you can make a hole thru the screen and insulation carefully measure so after the walls are up you can drill the hole and drop in a 1 1/4" conduit. Right beside one of the sides joists will bring you up in the middle of a 2x6 wall.


But my beautiful screen!!! Can I mount power to the outside and just bring it in through the wall? Or should it really be inside from underneath like that? 




Nealtw said:


> When you build walls you want to understand California corners to make wiring easier to get around the corners.
> It is looking good.
> 
> 
> Pick out the windows and doors, and get the length and width and the windows get the thickness.



Thanks! I'm still enjoying myself. My hands look like I used them to clean out an operating garbage disposal though. that wire is unforgiving. 

For a door I picked out this one. i'm not entirely stuck on anything but this is my best idea so far. 


Door:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/JELD-WEN-B...-x-80-in-Actual-59-5-in-x-78-6875-in/50241375


Windows (four of these)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-So...8-in-x-24-in-Actual-17-5-in-x-23-5-in/3683812

And this above the door for more light

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hy-Lite-Re...n-x-12-in-Actual-47-5-in-x-11-5-in/1000036809



I planned on 2x4 walls like my house. should I do 2x6 or will the windows and ac fit? Here's my AC

https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/co...Vihr_D3OpZbGdNApQUmZfI_7KvaReV3BoCuhMQAvD_BwE



Whatcha think?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Got it. That sounds familiar. You probably already told me to do that. :wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Check the doors again that is likely way over priced and made to fit a mobile home. The outside measure should be about 63"x 82 1/2.
Anyway you want to have hands on measurements of the doors before you frame the wall.
2x4 or 2x6 is just about insulation, up to you.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Check the doors again that is likely way over priced and made to fit a mobile home. The outside measure should be about 63"x 82 1/2.
> Anyway you want to have hands on measurements of the doors before you frame the wall.
> 2x4 or 2x6 is just about insulation, up to you.



I'm thinking cost and floorspace is why I said 2x4. we get winds up to 60 mph here regularly with gusts of 80. Temps range from -10 to 120F (-23c to 49c)

Would you go with 2x6? will the windows and AC work out OK?



And do you have a suggestion for doors somewhere else? I'm clueless.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'm thinking cost and floorspace is why I said 2x4. we get winds up to 60 mph here regularly with gusts of 80. Temps range from -10 to 120F (-23c to 49c)
> 
> Would you go with 2x6? will the windows and AC work out OK?
> 
> ...


 Exterior walls in houses are built with 2x6 today and a real sized double door like that will be made for a 2x6 wall or should be.:biggrin2:
Windows work either way.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Exterior walls in houses are built with 2x6 today and a real sized double door like that will be made for a 2x6 wall or should be.:biggrin2:
> Windows work either way.



I read that I can get R26 with 2x4s (more floorspace) and 2"rigid foam on the outside.Would that work? It's such a small space inside that I think I really will miss that space.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I read that I can get R26 with 2x4s (more floorspace) and 2"rigid foam on the outside.Would that work? It's such a small space inside that I think I really will miss that space.


You are using the siding for structure instead of sheeting so no I wouldn't put foam behind that sheeting . You did build it a foot bigger than plan. :wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You are using the siding for structure instead of sheeting so no I wouldn't put foam behind that sheeting . You did build it a foot bigger than plan. :wink2:


So I'm not putting sheathing on it? I thought the siding boards would just go over the sheathing.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> So I'm not putting sheathing on it? I thought the siding boards would just go over the sheathing.


Maybe I misunderstood an earlier post, that will work. :wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Maybe I misunderstood an earlier post, that will work. :wink2:


My insulation was delivered today! Woohoo! It's wet again outside though so it'll be a few days before I can put it in. Baby steps!


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok Neal my friend! I'v got a lot of wood coming today and need to get busy so stay handy. (If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!) I'd really like to get walls on this week. We've got rain and snow tomorrow and Sunday, but today and Monday, Tues, Thurs, Fri should be great. Today I'll wrap up the floor and put 6 mil plastic on it to protect it. 

On the wall 2x4's, should they all be pressure treated? Will 2x4s be structurally sound enough in such a small building against wind and door slams? i think I already asked that, but I want to confirm.


----------



## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

The 2x4 studs don't need to be pressure treated but the bottom plate should be .


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok Neal my friend! I'v got a lot of wood coming today and need to get busy so stay handy. (If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!) I'd really like to get walls on this week. We've got rain and snow tomorrow and Sunday, but today and Monday, Tues, Thurs, Fri should be great. Today I'll wrap up the floor and put 6 mil plastic on it to protect it.
> 
> On the wall 2x4's, should they all be pressure treated? Will 2x4s be structurally sound enough in such a small building against wind and door slams? i think I already asked that, but I want to confirm.


 You don't need pressure treated for anything now. 



Do you know what the roof will look like from the front.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You don't need pressure treated for anything now.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what the roof will look like from the front.


Ok, I'll put PT on the bottom plate like the guy above said, then go with regular for the rest .

The roof I want is kinda like this. Actually the whole design is kinda like this. 
The only change I'd like to make is just have 1 top window for light over the door. Then a small window on each side of the door. 
Then two windows on the sides and one AC unit. 




Give me a minute and i'll draw crayon all over it and give you a better idea.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok here's my version, except I forgot to add french doors. So just imagine those. And my mini split system is just a cut-paste so it might be bigger or smaller depending.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

One bottom plate and 2 top plates, *identical *in length
Match the length of the front wall to the length of the front 

Match the back wall to the back, if they are not the same front and back, don't tell anyone. 

You will need all the measurements for doors and windows.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> One bottom plate and 2 top plates, *identical *in length
> Match the length of the front wall to the length of the front
> 
> Match the back wall to the back, if they are not the same front and back, don't tell anyone.
> ...


I need to pick out better doors and windows in that case. Can you recommend a supplier?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I need to pick out better doors and windows in that case. Can you recommend a supplier?


Most of what we install is builder grade from a bunch of suppliers that make the same windows, so I don't know a good or bad brand but some will screw with the sizes a little to save pennies and that messes up the framing. And the double doors can be a little different width on different days from the same supplier. What ever they are you want to be 1/2" big both ways with the framing.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Project Update:
The heavy lifting, screwing, and gluing took it's toll on me and I spent the day doing nothing. Everything on me hurts, but I'm getting caught up. I plan to do one wall (the back wall) tomorrow and leave it lying on the floor until i get measurements for the doors and windows. 

My plan is to make the back wall 7' tall, using 2 studs on the top, one stud on the bottom (pressure treated). And regular studs in the walls 16" on center. With California corners. i wish they called that something else.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Project Update:
> The heavy lifting, screwing, and gluing took it's toll on me and I spent the day doing nothing. Everything on me hurts, but I'm getting caught up. I plan to do one wall (the back wall) tomorrow and leave it lying on the floor until i get measurements for the doors and windows.
> 
> My plan is to make the back wall 7' tall, using 2 studs on the top, one stud on the bottom (pressure treated). And regular studs in the walls 16" on center. With California corners. i wish they called that something else.


What slope are you planning for the roof, and how deep will the roof be for insulation?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> What slope are you planning for the roof, and how deep will the roof be for insulation?


I planned on 9' in the front, 7' in the back, but I'm open to ideas. 
I was going to use 2x6's for the roof.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Project Update:
> The heavy lifting, screwing, and gluing took it's toll on me and I spent the day doing nothing. Everything on me hurts, but I'm getting caught up. I plan to do one wall (the back wall) tomorrow and leave it lying on the floor until i get measurements for the doors and windows.
> 
> My plan is to make the back wall 7' tall, using 2 studs on the top, one stud on the bottom (pressure treated). And regular studs in the walls 16" on center. With California corners. i wish they called that something else.


The tops are called plates and bottoms are called sills or sill plate. 

For a california corner we nail 2 studs together in an L shape and call them Ls and only say california corner when explaining it to new people. 

When you build the wall the L goes on both ends with one stud standing up and the other laying on the floor. 



Don't forget that when you start your layout, the first is on the + side of 15 1/4.


I did a sample layout for the front wall. the yellow is the L laying on the floor, put them in the back wall too.
Tack a top and bottom plate together, confirm they match in length and do the layout together and then spread them apart.


If you are using vertical siding for sheeting, do not miss any studs or cripples in the layout even if you have a stupid amount of studs somewhere or the plywood will not work.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I planned on 9' in the front, 7' in the back, but I'm open to ideas.
> I was going to use 2x6's for the roof.


 The low slope limits your choice of roofing material, don't know if you have considered that. 

I would make the rafters taller for more insulation, they can be 24" center,
then strap over that with 2x4 on flat for the required venting.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You seldom see houses built with tall rafters because there are often cut to look like 2x4 at the tails.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The low slope limits your choice of roofing material, don't know if you have considered that.
> 
> I would make the rafters taller for more insulation, they can be 24" center,
> then strap over that with 2x4 on flat for the required venting.



I thought the 2' slope would be pretty good. Should I go higher? Like, 7' and 12' or something? I want to use shingles.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I thought the 2' slope would be pretty good. Should I go higher? Like, 7' and 12' or something? I want to use shingles.


 I don't remember the depth of the building, divide 24" by the number of feet and that will give you a pitch and it is written as 3/12 or 5/12
Then you could ask a question in roofing about the options you have and see what the pros think.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I don't remember the depth of the building, divide 24" by the number of feet and that will give you a pitch and it is written as 3/12 or 5/12
> Then you could ask a question in roofing about the options you have and see what the pros think.


2.18/12 I guess is the number. It's 11' long.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> 2.18/12 I guess is the number. It's 11' long.



That sounds right, see what they think in roofing.:wink2:


If you end up building a taller wall don't build the back wall first, you want room to work on the front wall on the deck.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, to keep the thread up to date we decided the walls would measure:

80 inch studs in the back for 84 1/2" wall
123 1/2 inch studs in the front for 128" wall. 

I've got the floor covered with plastic right now to protect it and the insulation from the rain and hail coming today. I planned to build the back wall too, but I'm supposed to build the front first so instead of that fun stuff, i'm going window shopping 
I think i'm going to go with Pella or anderson windows since they seem to get the best reviews on here for consistency and quality. 

How big should my side windows be? I've got an 11' long wall and I'd like a good sized window for looks and wifey approval-ability.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, to keep the thread up to date we decided the walls would measure:
> 
> 80 inch studs in the back for 84 1/2" wall
> 123 1/2 inch studs in the front for 128" wall.
> ...


You know that for 3 1/2" you are buying 12 ft instead of 10 ft


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You know that for 3 1/2" you are buying 12 ft instead of 10 ft


12' studs? I thought you said get 10 footers in the other thread. Cut them so they land at 123 1/2" total so (I'm guessing) that 128 inches is the total height.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> 12' studs? I thought you said get 10 footers in the other thread. Cut them so they land at 123 1/2" total so (I'm guessing) that 128 inches is the total height.


 Originally Posted by *Nealtw*  
_4/12 x 11 ft equals 44"
80 inch studs in the back for 84 1/2" wall
124 inch studs in the front for 128 1/2" wall.


*You might want to cheat back a little and make the front studs 120" for a wall 124 1/2" wall. just don't trust 10 footers to be 120" with out cutting them.*_

_Did you read all of what said. 10 footers are 120+ long._


----------



## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Maybe a little trailer or camper.

Something you can move around for the next time she changes her mind where she wants it.

It would definitely be high enough above several inches of water.

People fix older ones up for next to nothing.

A home office shouldn't be hard at all.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

OK Guys I went to Pella today and got prices on the four windows and the door. Also the measurements. Here's the info - dang, they're expensive!









Larger windows are going on the sides, smaller ones are going by the door.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

So the door header is 6" longer than the rough opening they gave you,
the window headers are 3" longer than the rough width.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So the door header is 6" longer than the rough opening they gave you,
> the window headers are 3" longer than the rough width.


So I need to make the door header 105 15/16ths + 6 = *111 15/16ths* long? 
And the window is 18 + 3" = *21"* long in the front, then 
on the sides 32 + 3" = *32"* long on the side windows?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

32 +3 =35
76 3/8 =6 = 82 1/2
18 + 3=21


which door are you using and what the H is a processing fee?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 32 +3 =35
> 76 3/8 =6 = 82 1/2
> 18 + 3=21
> 
> ...


I thought the 105 was the width. I don't need an 8' tall door! :surprise:

The processing fee is because every pella door is built to order. They have absolutely nothing on racks.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I thought the 105 was the width. I don't need an 8' tall door! :surprise:
> 
> The processing fee is because every pella door is built to order. They have absolutely nothing on racks.


 So they don't pay interest on a $1,000,000 in inventory and they are charging you for that. I would be saying , this has taken an hour and I charge $100 an hour so put - $100 on there too. :wink2: I guess that' why we never see them up here.
You wanted a door 8 1/2 ft wide? That includes the window above.


Your windows want to be around 81" from the floor to match the door height.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So they don't pay interest on a $1,000,000 in inventory and they are charging you for that. I would be saying , this has taken an hour and I charge $100 an hour so put - $100 on there too. :wink2: I guess that' why we never see them up here.
> You wanted a door 8 1/2 ft wide? That includes the window above.
> 
> 
> Your windows want to be around 81" from the floor to match the door height.



The doors are outswing french doors so they're big. Do you think that's too wide?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> The doors are outswing french doors so they're big. Do you think that's too wide?


 A double 30 wide likely would have done it. If it is grander than the house front door it might look strange?:biggrin2:
You had talked about adding foam to the outside, a jam for 2x6 might have been better.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> A double 30 wide likely would have done it. If it is grander than the house front door it might look strange?:biggrin2:
> You had talked about adding foam to the outside, a jam for 2x6 might have been better.


double 30? 60" wide?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> double 30? 60" wide?


Yes, that is a 3 people door install, with an out swing, two to lift it in with one person inside to tack it in place.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes, that is a 3 people door install, with an out swing, two to lift it in with one person inside to tack it in place.


Ok, let's get that nailed down so i understand it. The height is because of the top window that I forgot. It will look like this with two outswing doors. 











But the door width *rough opening* is 76 instead of 60. The guy said that was a standard width for a set of french doors. Is that not right? If not, I'll call and get it cut down to 60.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, let's get that nailed down so i understand it. The height is because of the top window that I forgot. It will look like this with two outswing doors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We see double 30s all the time but maybe they don't make them


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We see double 30s all the time but maybe they don't make them


Yeah, i'm sure that's it. Must be a Canadian thing 
I'll call and get them changed to 60 so they're not covering up the whole front end of the house.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

As a side note, if i want to add a 5x5 room to it once it's built can I just sink 2 more piers, lay 2 more beams, and tie them to the side of the existing structure with hangers or structural bolts? I may want to add a toilet/sink area later, plumbed to my house. heck, if I add a hotplate I could rent the place out after i retire haha!


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

No need to tie into the house. A plywood sofa with a hole in it will do the trick.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> No need to tie into the house. A plywood sofa with a hole in it will do the trick.


perfect! Then I can invite a few friends! :vs_laugh:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, I'm framing today (woohoo!) 

Neal, let me know how high to make the window frames off the ground, anything special, etc. 

The plan right now is to cut 11 stud 2x4s at 80 inches long. Nail the treated sill board to these studs on 16" centers, and top with two top boards. That's the back. 

Then the front is the same, but I have to make spots for two windows and the door (Double 30!) so I need to know how that works. 

I have no clue how the sides are going to work right now, though I'm most excited to find out.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

If your roof is sloped, don't you need to cut the tops of the studs on an angle?


I usually leave the top board til the end to overlap one wall to the other.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, I'm framing today (woohoo!)
> 
> Neal, let me know how high to make the window frames off the ground, anything special, etc.
> 
> ...


 Don't forget the 2 Ls in the corners for your Cal. corners. 



I will follow up with the front wall.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Just reread your post. I would start with the ends to get the shape and lengths/angles of the front and rear walls.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> If your roof is sloped, don't you need to cut the tops of the studs on an angle?
> 
> 
> I usually leave the top board til the end to overlap one wall to the other.


He is new so don't send him down a tricky rood.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

4 window jacks at 82"
4 window sills a 24"
6 window cripples at 29"
4 door jacks *106*
1 door sill at 76 3/8 unless you changed the door.
You will need blocks above the windows and doors on layout, just measure what you need.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

oops, window sills are 32"
The headers go flush to the outside of the wall.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 4 window jacks at 82"
> 4 window sills a 24"
> 6 window cripples at 29"
> 4 door jacks *106*
> ...



I'm going to re-order the door at 60 instead so we're back to that for the length. I want to do it right and have a door I can replace if something goes wrong. But for this price, it better last forever, haha!

I had to look up all of those terms on the internet. 











4 window jacks at 82" = this doesn't fit the picture. can you talk me through it? 

4 window sills a 24" = Roger that! 
6 window cripples at 29" = up on cripple creek! :biggrin2: Roger that!
4 door jacks *106 *= Roger that!
1 door sill at 76 3/8 unless you changed the door. = I did, it's going to be a "double thirty" now! 

Thanks again for all the help Neal. You're a saint!


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> He is new so don't send him down a tricky rood.



What's the plan? Flat top walls and birds mouths on the rafters?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'm going to re-order the door at 60 instead so we're back to that for the length. I want to do it right and have a door I can replace if something goes wrong. But for this price, it better last forever, haha!
> 
> I had to look up all of those terms on the internet.
> 
> ...


*4 window jacks at 82" = this doesn't fit the picture. can you talk me through it? 
*

Would this fit the picture better if you raise the door header to 106" The jacks are holding up the header 82" puts the top of the window about the same height as the top of of the door and the window above the door is above that. 

*1 door sill at 76 3/8 unless you changed the door. = I did, it's going to be a "double thirty" now! 
*

So just to clarify, this isn't a regular double door where you can open both doors when you are moving big objects? This a fixed and swing door so a 30+30 single out swing, Just think about the size of furniture. This will be the size of a typical bedroom door. 

Check what they have and maybe 32+32 or 34+34 would be better.
We can do the math and come up with new header and sill length but I am not a trusting soul. So their measurements would be better. 



How did you do with the back wall?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> What's the plan? Flat top walls and birds mouths on the rafters?


Yes, that is all we ever build, and figuring angles requires that we know the exact height of both walls and the distance apart. 

The shed is already 1 ft deeper than the plan so we have to know our limits. 

:wink2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@GrapeApe


So your back wall should look much like this with a brace inside from top to bottom plates on an angle while you checked it for plumb.
Braced on both sides on the outside while checking for plumb that way. 

We try never to use the level against a stud, we try to find a straight 2x4 to we put on edge leaned against the top and bottom plates and put the level against that staying away from the studs.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> *4 window jacks at 82" = this doesn't fit the picture. can you talk me through it?
> *
> 
> Would this fit the picture better if you raise the door header to 106" The jacks are holding up the header 82" puts the top of the window about the same height as the top of of the door and the window above the door is above that.
> ...


I'll run by tomorrow and get a new printout with the new measurements for the door. It's a double open door though. Both doors have to open to get the furniture inside. 

Should I do 32+32 to split the difference, you think? 




Nealtw said:


> How did you do with the back wall?


Very well, thanks! I remembered the corners. My sill had a bend in it but I pulled it out by screwing one side, then bending the other into place before screwing it down. Good as gold! 
funny thing, I grabbed a 10' for the top plate at first and didn't notice until I had the first two studs attached. Then I sat up from the work and noticed the top plate quit and the studs kept going! Haha! Had to pull it off and get a twelver. 
One sill plate, two top plates, as ordered, sir!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'll run by tomorrow and get a new printout with the new measurements for the door. It's a double open door though. Both doors have to open to get the furniture inside.
> 
> Should I do 32+32 to split the difference, you think?
> 
> ...



So you just left out step 1 and 2 



1, cut 3 2x4s exactly to match the length of the building and each other. 

2 tack 2 of them together and do the layout so every stud is in the right place so you won't have to move them when you hang your plywood.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'll run by tomorrow and get a new printout with the new measurements for the door. It's a double open door though. Both doors have to open to get the furniture inside.
> 
> Should I do 32+32 to split the difference, you think?
> 
> ...


 A double 30 should be fine if both doors open but their measurement for with does not make sense so double check the door you are ordering, 

For a double 36 I would expect the rough to be 75" not sure why they need the extra.


But now I want 3 measurements, exact ones.
1. the length of the floor frame at the back
2, the length of the bottom plate.
3. the length of the longer of the 2 top plates.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So you just left out step 1 and 2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did 1, I didn't do 2. I just tacked them afterward. But my studs are all on 16' centers except the last one, which was 15 5/8ths. 





Nealtw said:


> But now I want 3 measurements, exact ones.
> 1. the length of the floor frame at the back
> 2, the length of the bottom plate.
> 3. the length of the longer of the 2 top plates.



Both top and bottom plates are the same, there is no "longer top plate". I didn't leave the 10 footer on. i'm dumb but not THAT dumb 

I'll get the measurements tomorrow though. Seems like it was 12' 3/4". 
It's snoozing time for this village idiot though. I'm a dead baby.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I did 1, I didn't do 2. I just tacked them afterward. But my studs are all on 16' centers except the last one, which was 15 5/8ths.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hopefully all three are the same.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

New door hard numbers


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Also, is this framing right for the door? I thought the bottom board (sill plate) was continuous.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> New door hard numbers


So the new sill is 64 1/2 and the header will be 70 1/2


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> Also, is this framing right for the door? I thought the bottom board (sill plate) was continuous.





I would make the sill plate right thru the doorway for ease of wall construction and cut it out later.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> I would make the sill plate right thru the doorway for ease of wall construction and cut it out later.


oops, I started today by cutting all those cuts. 

Hey guys, am I going to have enough wall support with all these windows and doors in front? Here's my sills laid down. There's not much room for studs... i've only got around 8" in between the sills here and 8" on each side till I hit the end. I can omit the windows if i have to, but it'll be darker inside.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Also, is this framing right for the door? I thought the bottom board (sill plate) was continuous.



Ask questions about what I have given you, the picture you posts is nothing like it so I can't figure what you don't know.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> oops, I started today by cutting all those cuts.
> 
> Hey guys, am I going to have enough wall support with all these windows and doors in front? Here's my sills laid down. There's not much room for studs... i've only got around 8" in between the sills here and 8" on each side till I hit the end. I can omit the windows if i have to, but it'll be darker inside.


Change the windows to 24" wide.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> oops, I started today by cutting all those cuts.
> 
> Hey guys, am I going to have enough wall support with all these windows and doors in front? Here's my sills laid down. There's not much room for studs... i've only got around 8" in between the sills here and 8" on each side till I hit the end. I can omit the windows if i have to, but it'll be darker inside.


You could squeeze it, lay our the door in the center with 2 jacks and a king and put a jack on the other side of the king for the window.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Ask questions about what I have given you, the picture you posts is nothing like it so I can't figure what you don't know.



I don't know anything, remember? 
I'm copying that picture for board names (jack stud, king stud, etc) and using your measurements. 

Should it look different? 


Here's where I am: I've got all the cuts made you said before, with the changes for the new door rough in, and laid out. My plan is to put the door frame together (so I can handle it easier) then the window frames, then tie them to the top sill along with the king studs etc.
Then I'll mount all that to the sill plates on the sides under the window, that ties to the floor (not the window sill, but the sill on the floor). The door will already have a sill plate on the floor. 

How's that sound?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Also all the pictures I'm finding for door jacks show just two, but I've got four cut from my list. I don't know where the other two are supposed to go :surprise:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I don't know anything, remember?
> I'm copying that picture for board names (jack stud, king stud, etc) and using your measurements.
> 
> Should it look different?
> ...


 The door sill goes under the header. 

the window sills go under the header and ion top of the cripples for the bottom of the window.
1. find the center of the the two plates you have tacked together.
2 double check by measuring both ways to the center. 

3. from the center measure and mark 32 1/4, double check those line are 64 1/2" apart. 



The thickness of the studs can screw up the measurements
So I will guild you thru this 

4 you are going to build the windows first with out nailing then to the bottom plate or top plate. 



You have four window jacks the 82 " ones.
Nail each one of those to a full length stud. making double sure the bottoms are flush. The full length stud is the king stud. 

You have some 29" cripple studs nail one each to the jack studs making sure the bottom are flush 

One 32 inch sill will sit on top of the 29"cripple studs and get screwed there.
The header sits on top of the 82" jack studs and you nail it thru the king studs
The top sill goes between the jack studs and gets nailed into the header. 

5 now you can nail the taller jack studs one at a time to the side of the king stud just one side of each window. then add a second to that.


So you have 2 windows with 2 jacks screwed or nailed to one side of each
The door header sits on top of the jack studs and you screw that thru the king studs. 

The door sill goes under the header and gets screwed there. 

Now you can nail on the top and bottom plate making sure you can just see the line you drew earlier. 

Make sure everything is nice and tight fit


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Also all the pictures I'm finding for door jacks show just two, but I've got four cut from my list. I don't know where the other two are supposed to go :surprise:


 when the header is 5 ft or longer you need two jacks on each side.
That is why your header is 6" longer than the sill.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks! I got the door put together. And the california corners  
Why is the door 70 1/2 at the top and 64 1/2 at the bottom? It seems like that's too wide at the top being that it's only got jack studs on each side, and that's 3" total. 

What should the window headers be?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> when the header is 5 ft or longer you need two jacks on each side.
> That is why your header is 6" longer than the sill.



Oh crap......


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Oh crap......


So what?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, looks like I can fix this. I just have to remove the sill plate from under the window area, remove the door sill, and add the second jack plate, the re-measure, recenter and I'm back in the game. 
So about those window headers... Should i add 6" to the sill like the door?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, looks like I can fix this. I just have to remove the sill plate from under the window area, remove the door sill, and add the second jack plate, the re-measure, recenter and I'm back in the game.
> So about those window headers... Should i add 6" to the sill like the door?


 Do you not write down measurement when I give them to you.
I am sure you said the windows are 32 and and I said to cut the sills 32 and the headers 35? 



What the hell is a jack plate., Take a picture of what you have now?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Do you not write down measurement when I give them to you.
> I am sure you said the windows are 32 and and I said to cut the sills 32 and the headers 35?
> 
> 
> ...



Door jack, I mean. I only have one on each side right now. But I can fix it. 

If you mentioned the door headers I sure missed it. I'm sorry


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Door jack, I mean. I only have one on each side right now. But I can fix it.
> 
> If you mentioned the door headers I sure missed it. I'm sorry


 If you have the header size I said and you installed one jack, why can't you add one more jack under the header. I said you need 4 jacks for the door, what did you miss, you cut them and the header is 6: longer than the sill.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> If you have the header size I said and you installed one jack, why can't you add one more jack under the header. I said you need 4 jacks for the door, what did you miss, you cut them and the header is 6: longer than the sill.


I can, but I installed the door sill, sill plate, king studs, and calif corners also, so i need to remove all that and re-measure and re-center it again. My measurements from the door frame king stud to the end where the calif corners go is going to be off by 1 1/2" , and my centers for the window are going to be off also. I just have to re-do all that.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I can, but I installed the door sill, sill plate, king studs, and calif corners also, so i need to remove all that and re-measure and re-center it again. My measurements from the door frame king stud to the end where the calif corners go is going to be off by 1 1/2" , and my centers for the window are going to be off also. I just have to re-do all that.


Every one screws things up we might find a short cut but you have answer questions. 



You have totally confused me about what you have so I can not help you,
I would like to see picture so I can ask the questions.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Every one screws things up we might find a short cut but you have answer questions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here's what I have now. I didn't take a picture of it before dark. 












And this is the window I'm trying to frame today after I add that additional door jack. 












I believe you said the sills should be 24 earlier so I cut them at that. That should put the header at 27 if I'm starting to understand headers.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Door jacks are fixed! Only took me an hour  
Now I'm on to the windows. Here's a better picture of the window paper. Here's a link to a very large version. https://windypix.com/?di=7PPI


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

And here’s what I have now


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> And here’s what I have now


I had the wrong size windows in the front.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I had the wrong size windows in the front.



That's ok! What should my measurements be for these? My window jacks and cripples are off too I think, but I don't know what they should be. 

Window Sill = 18 (if i was right)
Window header = 21
Cripples = ???
Window Jacks = ???


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That's ok! What should my measurements be for these? My window jacks and cripples are off too I think, but I don't know what they should be.
> 
> Window Sill = 18 (if i was right)
> Window header = 21
> ...


 jacks 82"
cripples 82 -51= 31"


51- 2 sills = 48" rough window 

double check my math.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> jacks 82"
> cripples 82 -51= 31"
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds good! got the windows framed. I ran out of "king" studs though so off to the store to get some more. I'll pop back in once this wall is up and I'm ready for the side walls.

Probably going to need the little lady to help me lift this one in place, haha! It's a lot of wood!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Sounds good! got the windows framed. I ran out of "king" studs though so off to the store to get some more. I'll pop back in once this wall is up and I'm ready for the side walls.
> 
> Probably going to need the little lady to help me lift this one in place, haha! It's a lot of wood!



Once you have that up go back to post 211. Having every thing plumb and straight is very important. 

When you have that I will give you a few things to check because this where you make corrections to make the roof fit.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Things check and record so we can talk about it.
With a string check that the top of the back wall is straight.
It wants a brace high on the back wall to the floor or a block on the floor. 

Do not tie the brace to the other wall in case that has to be leaned in or out..


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Only after the back was is perfect, plumb both ways at both ends and braced so it cannot move. the centre is checked for straight and braced to the floor,
Measure up and mark the front wall to match the height of the back wall.
Both ends and one side of the door way. This will help you measure level from back to front.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Measure the two ends at the level line they should be the same. If not double check both ends are plumb. 

If both ends are the same then you can check the middle and add a level high brace from the back wall to hold it straight.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Back on windows for a second, I found this picture on window framing. It shows two sills on the bottom and a board under the headers. Is this a better way or just a different way? I'm not changing anything, just curious why someone would use extra wood when they don't have to.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Back on windows for a second, I found this picture on window framing. It shows two sills on the bottom and a board under the headers. Is this a better way or just a different way? I'm not changing anything, just curious why someone would use extra wood when they don't have to.


 I have never seen it done, if you notice the top sill is on top of the jacks too, that only provides for more crush factor when you are trying to hold things up, With enough weight above that crush could get to 1/4" 



I have screwed measurement a few times and have added that second bottom sill. :wink2:
They are also short 2 jack studs because that window is 5 ft wide.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Back on windows for a second, I found this picture on window framing. It shows two sills on the bottom and a board under the headers. Is this a better way or just a different way? I'm not changing anything, just curious why someone would use extra wood when they don't have to.


For anyone that has noticed the taller jack studs on the corners that don't appear for any reason, they will be for flush beams likely for a deck roof, they will cut out the plates and plywood when they build that and slip the beams in.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@GrapeApe


Let me know when you have all this under control or anything that needs to be talked about. 

The next few steps are a little tricky so set aside 30 to 60 minutes so we can discuss it before you head out to build.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> @GrapeApe
> 
> 
> Let me know when you have all this under control or anything that needs to be talked about.
> ...



Will do. Tomorrow I'll go get more wood and screws, then I'm going to go by and get the side windows sized taller since they'll be OK on that huge wall. Then I'll have the front wall finished and put up. I'll brace it with a 2x4 like I did the back one and drive structural screws in the sill plate to hold it down. 

Then I'll get all those string measurements and we can get the side walls up. I'm getting excited to start on the roof! 


Will I need to set up a special framing for this ac system?
https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/co...-mini-split-air-conditioner-heat-pump-115-vac


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Will do. Tomorrow I'll go get more wood and screws, then I'm going to go by and get the side windows sized taller since they'll be OK on that huge wall. Then I'll have the front wall finished and put up. I'll brace it with a 2x4 like I did the back one and drive structural screws in the sill plate to hold it down.
> 
> Then I'll get all those string measurements and we can get the side walls up. I'm getting excited to start on the roof!
> 
> ...


 We can just add some blocking in the wall later for the mini spit. 



Make sure you are happy with how straight the front wall is at the bottom or the door won't fit right. No screws where the door goes that part of the sill gets cut out. A couple angled screws right below the jack studs won't hurt.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I hear talk of walls up, etc....but no offers of visual proof.
The advise does come with a small fee around here....where's the PICS? :smile:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> I hear talk of walls up, etc....but no offers of visual proof.
> The advise does come with a small fee around here....where's the PICS? :smile:



Aww man, you busted me! I still haven't poured the concrete. I'm a lazy, worthless shadow of a man and should lose my man-card.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Rain got me today guys. The headers are in, jack studs are in, and the king studs are in. 

Should I put two king studs on the windows and door or is that unnecessary? 

Sorry Pugsey, but as of right now nothing's changed from the last panorama shot I took earlier except for the king studs I bought today. 

All i've got left right now is (possibly) extra king studs on the windows, the top plate, and braces. I love rain for the garden, but it sure isn't making this job easier. We're forecasted to get three days of rain.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> And here’s what I have now



This is the last pic I saw.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Rain got me today guys. The headers are in, jack studs are in, and the king studs are in.
> 
> Should I put two king studs on the windows and door or is that unnecessary?
> 
> ...



One king is all that is called for. Most of the weight transfers to the jacks under the header.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

To keep the thread updated, I'm almost at $3000 spent so far, with a large chunk of that being the 2 day skid steer rental for $600 bucks. 

Total so far $2956.60

And I still have to pay for doors and windows


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> To keep the thread updated, I'm almost at $3000 spent so far, with a large chunk of that being the 2 day skid steer rental for $600 bucks.
> 
> Total so far $2956.60
> 
> And I still have to pay for doors and windows


We will have some thing to go over when you have a description of the angles in your head you are less likely to screw it up when you get to the saw.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We will have some thing to go over when you have a description of the angles in your head you are less likely to screw it up when you get to the saw.



Ok all that looks like greek to me. I'm glad you're here!

That front wall weighs a TON. i still haven't got it up, but mainly because of the rain. It still hasn't stopped raining here and we're calling for more tomorrow. Maybe, just maybe Saturday afternoon will be dry. We'll see. 

So when I'm anchoring these walls to the floor beams, how is the best way to do it? Right now i'm thinking I'll use structural screws (big thick screws made by grk) but if there's a better way I should probably know what it is.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok all that looks like greek to me. I'm glad you're here!
> 
> That front wall weighs a TON. i still haven't got it up, but mainly because of the rain. It still hasn't stopped raining here and we're calling for more tomorrow. Maybe, just maybe Saturday afternoon will be dry. We'll see.
> 
> So when I'm anchoring these walls to the floor beams, how is the best way to do it? Right now i'm thinking I'll use structural screws (big thick screws made by grk) but if there's a better way I should probably know what it is.


 Just 2 nails or if you are doing screws every 16". usually you aim for joists and rims but you have beams so you won't miss and then a couple toe nailed thru the plate below the jack studs. you want that solid because the carry the weight of the swinging door.


Have you given much thought how the roof will look when done. 

Normally I would put one rafter on each end and then build to it
If you haven't we can fake it with just a sample 2x4 or something


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Just 2 nails or if you are doing screws every 16". usually you aim for joists and rims but you have beams so you won't miss and then a couple toe nailed thru the plate below the jack studs. you want that solid because the carry the weight of the swinging door.
> 
> 
> Have you given much thought how the roof will look when done.
> ...



That roof idea sounds fine. I just wanted it slanted with shingles on it. 

But...I've run into a pretty big problem. Me and the family (all kids and girls) tried to raise the front wall today and failed. It's too dang heavy. 
I can get it up, and get under it, but I can't raise it over 7" tall in the air or I run out of room (doorway) and can't push it up any higher so the center of gravity is still way over me, instead of over the wall studs. 

How do you guys get them up in the air when they're so heavy?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You should be able to rent a pair of wall jacks. The use a 2x4 and work like old fashion bumper jacks
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Guardian-Fall-Protection-Wall-Jack-2601/203205593


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You should be able to rent a pair of wall jacks. The use a 2x4 and work like old fashion bumper jacks
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Guardian-Fall-Protection-Wall-Jack-2601/203205593



Brilliant! I'm going to buy one. I think one is all I'll need since this is just 12' long.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Brilliant! I'm going to buy one. I think one is all I'll need since this is just 12' long.


 All my years and sometime with walls 40 ft long, never needed them. 

It would be pretty dicey with one. If one side slides out you are in a world of trouble. Rig ropes or something to both sides bottom so they can't get away.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> All my years and sometime with walls 40 ft long, never needed them.
> 
> It would be pretty dicey with one. If one side slides out you are in a world of trouble. Rig ropes or something to both sides bottom so they can't get away.



One is supposed to lift 1000 lbs. How did you lift them up being 40 ft long?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> One is supposed to lift 1000 lbs. How did you lift them up being 40 ft long?


More people. :wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Haha! Ok, well I made as many of those as I could. They just haven't had time to get tall yet 

I'll get it up as soon as the wall jack gets here.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Brilliant! I'm going to buy one. I think one is all I'll need since this is just 12' long.



You don't get away with saying this. 

_*That roof idea sounds fine. I just wanted it slanted with shingles on it. 
*_

This is understood, what you need to figure out is size of rafters for insulation and venting. Over hang on the sides and front and back and some choice on how it will look. 

We will be able to fake it enough to build the side wall but you will want to think about the roof or look for samples.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You don't get away with saying this.
> 
> _*That roof idea sounds fine. I just wanted it slanted with shingles on it.
> *_
> ...



Well, my plan was about 18" - 2' overhang. I thought I might just lay 2x6's up there and then put plywood on top of that. 

By the way, I got the wall up today! It's GRAND. 











Probably need to trim the bushes a bit, haha! We've got tornado weather the next couple of days again. Hope it stays up. I have braces on both sides and the structural screws in the sill plate. 

Do i put screws in the door sill too? I wasn't sure so I skipped it for now. I didn't want to add extra holes where they weren't needed.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Well, my plan was about 18" - 2' overhang. I thought I might just lay 2x6's up there and then put plywood on top of that.
> 
> By the way, I got the wall up today! It's GRAND.
> 
> ...


 No the sill under the door gets cut away but just leave it there till you have the roof on. 



Have you thought about insulation and venting, I don't think you want any less than 2x8 and I would prefer 2x10s. 

What ever, you will need 14 footers.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

2x10's it is then! I want it to be strong, especially since I'll be on it to shingle it and I'm 175 lbs! 

Am I doing the roof next or the side walls?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> 2x10's it is then! I want it to be strong, especially since I'll be on it to shingle it and I'm 175 lbs!
> 
> Am I doing the roof next or the side walls?


If side walls are next, here's the new window measurements.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Tomorrow I'll cut window parts like this for the side walls, if I have it figured out right. 



4 window jacks 82" long
6 window cripples 31" long
4 window sills at 36" long
4 window headers at 39" long


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

About to start cutting. So these side walls, do they need the studs to go all the way to the rafters or just to the top of the back wall then I build a little ramp looking thing up to the front wall from cripples or something? What's best/strongest?

Also, we have tornadoes again at 2 CST so I'll be done for the day by then.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> About to start cutting. So these side walls, do they need the studs to go all the way to the rafters or just to the top of the back wall then I build a little ramp looking thing up to the front wall from cripples or something? What's best/strongest?
> 
> Also, we have tornadoes again at 2 CST so I'll be done for the day by then.


 We always build then up to the rafters, that us why I have been trying to get you to talk about rafters.
You can built it to the height of the back wall and fill it in later but the rafter has to go up first so you get the wall to fit right. It is about the birds mouth cut and how the rafter fits


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We always build then up to the rafters, that us why I have been trying to get you to talk about rafters.
> You can built it to the height of the back wall and fill it in later but the rafter has to go up first so you get the wall to fit right. It is about the birds mouth cut and how the rafter fits



Well....butts. 

I thought I was putting up the side walls next. How do i get the rafters to overhang the sides 18-24" ? There's nothing to tie them on.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Well....butts.
> 
> I thought I was putting up the side walls next. How do i get the rafters to overhang the sides 18-24" ? There's nothing to tie them on.


That's where the planning comes in and you have choices to make. 

On the back you only want 6 to 12 inches with a gutter because you are close to the fence. One the front 2 feet is not a problem 

The sides especially with 2x10s can be a problem but can be done. 



With up to about 12" overhang on the sides you put the rafter on the wall and build a ladder out of the same material that gets nailed to the sidewall.
More than that then you leave out the outside rafter and build the wall just to the height so you can nail a 2x4 from the next rafter, it sits on the wall and extends out so the outboard one gets nailed to that. 

To make is look less bulky we trim the ends of the rafters so from the out side they look like 2x4s
In these pictures notice the top of the wall is different at the front and back and that is why the rafter has to be figured out first. 

Like this lower picture.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

maybe 18-24" is too generous? Would it look weird to do 24" on the front (like a large overhang) then 6" or so on the back, 10" on the sides ?

Wait, scratch that. With the 4 pitch roof (steep for short area) maybe I should skip the front overhang so it doesn't look like this guy's hat:











Should I do NO front overhang, then build a flat overhang over it instead so I've got two different angles up there? Or is that overthinking it? I don't want it having an overhang that's too steep to provide any protection.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

If 1 foot on the front will look OK, we could do that, then 10" on the sides, then 6" on the back. I think that might work. You kinda put me in a panic on the overhang, haha. Don't know how it'll turn out being such a steep roof. 

Would those measurements Look OK?


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> If 1 foot on the front will look OK, we could do that, then 10" on the sides, then 6" on the back. I think that might work. You kinda put me in a panic on the overhang, haha. Don't know how it'll turn out being such a steep roof.
> 
> Would those measurements Look OK?





Go a foot on front and sides.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> maybe 18-24" is too generous? Would it look weird to do 24" on the front (like a large overhang) then 6" or so on the back, 10" on the sides ?
> 
> Wait, scratch that. With the 4 pitch roof (steep for short area) maybe I should skip the front overhang so it doesn't look like this guy's hat:
> 
> ...


 That would be part of the planning before you build. You need time to think about that find pictures to look at. 

You are likely better to build with the same size studs as the back wall with just one top plate. Then you will be able to build a scaffolding so you can get up there and work on this. 

Just remember to include the 3 1/2" of the front wall when you do your lay out.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

..................


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> That would be part of the planning before you build. You need time to think about that find pictures to look at.
> 
> You are likely better to build with the same size studs as the back wall with just one top plate. Then you will be able to build a scaffolding so you can get up there and work on this.
> 
> Just remember to include the 3 1/2" of the front wall when you do your lay out.


I thought I had a plan but then this thing went from my ignorant idea of gorgeous "yard junk" to a real building with real improvements. Now I'm just doing what you tell me to do because thanks to your help I now know that I don't know anything - at all.

If I had just built what I started to build it probably would have blown over by now in one of these storms, :vs_laugh:

I know I said it before, but thanks Neal. You're providing guidance that I couldn't find anywhere else. 


My next real step is getting those 2x10's 14' long and lay them up there to mark rafters, right? Do I just start with them even with the wall edges? I'm not sure how i make the side overhang work since nothing is under it supporting it.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I thought I had a plan but then this thing went from my ignorant idea of gorgeous "yard junk" to a real building with real improvements. Now I'm just doing what you tell me to do because thanks to your help I now know that I don't know anything - at all.
> 
> If I had just built what I started to build it probably would have blown over by now in one of these storms, :vs_laugh:
> 
> ...


 When we do this you only need the measurements for one rafter so you can build the walls, but you want all that you have plumb in both directions and the measurement the same top and bottom to the level line from the back wall. And it would be best if both side walls are the same length and if they are not we talk about that. Even the pros find slight differences but know what to do with it is the key. 

We want one rafter that will be a sample and if that doesn't fit every location the roof structure can go squirrely in a hurry.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> When we do this you only need the measurements for one rafter so you can build the walls, but you want all that you have plumb in both directions and the measurement the same top and bottom to the level line from the back wall. And it would be best if both side walls are the same length and if they are not we talk about that. Even the pros find slight differences but know what to do with it is the key.
> 
> We want one rafter that will be a sample and if that doesn't fit every location the roof structure can go squirrely in a hurry.


Ok, I'll get measurements, then I'll get ONE rafter and try to mark it up as a template. 

Right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, I'll get measurements, then I'll get ONE rafter and try to mark it up as a template.
> 
> Right?


You could just use a 2x4 or 2x6 to get measurements and do a practice birds mouth cut.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You could just use a 2x4 or 2x6 to get measurements and do a practice birds mouth cut.


I dont have any 14' 2x4s. I've got to pick em up anyway. How many will I need to cover 12 feet plus overhang?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

At 24" on center you will need 7 2x10s and 4 14 ft 2x4s and 4 paint grade 2x6
You likely have some scrape 2x4 for blocks and scrape floor sheeting for a bunch of strips we need.
If you like this look


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> At 24" on center you will need 7 2x10s and 4 14 ft 2x4s and 4 paint grade 2x6
> You likely have some scrape 2x4 for blocks and scrape floor sheeting for a bunch of strips we need.
> If you like this look


that's kinda the look I was going for but with more front overhang. About double or so of that.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> that's kinda the look I was going for but with more front overhang. About double or so of that.



That would be 2' then on the front.
That's a good foot in the pic.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Looking more closely, I'm not sure I understand all the measurements i'm supposed to make. I did make some today but I'm definitely not plumb and square, though I braced it up level. We've had 7" of rain in the last 4 days so things are also a little swollen up. 


Here's what I have right now, some of which i'm sure you don't need but I took what I could think of until I could get back here for clarification  

Front wall height right: 124 5/8"
Front wall height left: 124 9/16"
Front wall top right to left bottom (crossways): 191 5/8"
Front wall top left to right bottom (crossways): 190 3/4"

Front right wall top to back right wall top: 132 3/4"
Front left wall top to back left wall top: 132 1/2"

Back wall right height: 85"
Back wall left height: 84 15/16"
Back wall top right to bottom left: 166 1/4"
Back wall top left to bottom right: 168 3/4"

It seems like everything that is off could be pulled back with pressure on one side or the other. 

Like I said, most of those you probably don't need, but can you explain the string thing again in detail (and not all at once)?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Looking more closely, I'm not sure I understand all the measurements i'm supposed to make. I did make some today but I'm definitely not plumb and square, though I braced it up level. We've had 7" of rain in the last 4 days so things are also a little swollen up.
> 
> 
> Here's what I have right now, some of which i'm sure you don't need but I took what I could think of until I could get back here for clarification
> ...


 This is good


*Front wall height right: 124 5/8"
Front wall height left: 124 9/16*" good


*Front wall top right to left bottom (crossways): 191 5/8"
Front wall top left to right bottom (crossways): 190 3/4"*
You need to loosen the brace and push the top to the right 7/16" so they are both really close to 191 3/16"


*Back wall right height: 85"
Back wall left height: 84 15/16" * good




*Back wall top right to bottom left: 166 1/4"
Back wall top left to bottom right: 168 3/4"*

You need to loosen the brace and push the top right 1 1/4" so they are both really close to 167 1/2"


*
*
*Front right wall top to back right wall top: 132 3/4"
Front left wall top to back left wall top: 132 1/2"*
*
*
We will also need the bottom measurements and we have to plumb the front wall.


See if you can find a really straight 2x4 longer than 125"*
*


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> This is good
> 
> 
> *Front wall height right: 124 5/8"
> ...



Got the adjustments made today. The back wall is level, but it doesn't want to stay adjusted so I put another brace on it. The front wall was super easy. 

And I got that other measurement. It's 124 3/4" from the front to the back wall. It's the same on both sides. 

I tried to pick up the 2x10's today too, but they don't sell them in 14' long boards. Only 12, then 16 foot. So i'll have to pick up the 16's. Hope I can fit them in the truck bed. 

I'll try to pick them up with some helpers tomorrow.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Got the adjustments made today. The back wall is level, but it doesn't want to stay adjusted so I put another brace on it. The front wall was super easy.
> 
> And I got that other measurement. It's 124 3/4" from the front to the back wall. It's the same on both sides.
> 
> ...


Buy a stack of plywood to carry on top and take the plywood back later.:biggrin2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Buy a stack of plywood to carry on top and take the plywood back later.:biggrin2:


haha! i'll try that! 

Once i get it all back here, what's my next step?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You need to crown and mark them, that is the natural bend of the lumber and we want them to hump up in the middle so mark them which why up.
Pick two that have the least amount of crown and mark them with a G for gable 

Stand a gable one up near the ends of the walls, you will likely need some blocks to tack it in place so it stays in place while you climb around with a ladder. Leave about a foot sticking out the back. 



1.You want a reference lines straight up off the walls.
2.You want an accurate height of the birds mouth.
3.When you cut the top plate for the wall the thickness of the top plate will be more than 1 1/2" so hold a 2x4 under it next to the front wall and measure the new thickness.


Once you have this info, we can build the wall.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I got the super long boards in. I kinda like that much overhang with the 16 footers! 
The birdsmouth I marked doesn't look deep enough though. I used the method on that video you posted where you just mark it with the speed square, but it's only an inch deep at that mark and that looks thin. It's hard to hold such a long board in place with a 4 foot difference in the boards, haha! 


Here's a pic:






My measurements were 1 3/16" high on the outside part/end of the board off the sill plate, and 1 3/4" down on the downward side. 

And like the idiot I am, I left 6" (and marked it) hanging out the back, not a foot because I missed that part.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Forgot the pic


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I got the super long boards in. I kinda like that much overhang with the 16 footers!
> The birdsmouth I marked doesn't look deep enough though. I used the method on that video you posted where you just mark it with the speed square, but it's only an inch deep at that mark and that looks thin. It's hard to hold such a long board in place with a 4 foot difference in the boards, haha!
> 
> 
> ...


I will do up some pictures, do you want to carry on with the rafter or work on the walls?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I should have said that that trick he used only works that angle he was building you would have needed something thicker
The two angles there are plum and seat plumb will be 1 3/6"
and the seat will be 3 1/2" long


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I should have said that that trick he used only works that angle he was building you would have needed something thicker
> The two angles there are plum and seat plumb will be 1 3/6"
> and the seat will be 3 1/2" long



Ok, I'll get them cut like that. let's do the rafters first if we can because it's raining every day here and I don't have storage for 16" boards out of the rain. 

Do I just cut them all like that? The first will be a template and the rest are just copies? 

Thanks!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, I'll get them cut like that. let's do the rafters first if we can because it's raining every day here and I don't have storage for 16" boards out of the rain.
> 
> Do I just cut them all like that? The first will be a template and the rest are just copies?
> 
> Thanks!



You are talking to a guy that worked with wet lumber most of his life, the lumber is fine. 



I want to double check you you are doing before you cut. 

You get to excited, slow down.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, I'll get them cut like that. let's do the rafters first if we can because it's raining every day here and I don't have storage for 16" boards out of the rain.
> 
> Do I just cut them all like that? The first will be a template and the rest are just copies?
> 
> Thanks!


 This your lay out. 

don't make your overhang in the front more that 21 as laid out here.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I don't understand that picture with the blue 3 1/2s on it. Here's my birdsmouth cut I'm about to saw on. 



While waiting I built a couple of 6.5' long benches to sit on and cut these huge rafters on.  I'm loving being able to make stuff. Cutting a straight line with a skilsaw isn't as easy as people on tv make it look, but I've about got it down at this point.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I don't understand that picture with the blue 3 1/2s on it. Here's my birdsmouth cut I'm about to saw on.
> 
> 
> 
> While waiting I built a couple of 6.5' long benches to sit on and cut these huge rafters on.  I'm loving being able to make stuff. Cutting a straight line with a skilsaw isn't as easy as people on tv make it look, but I've about got it down at this point.


 Extend the plumb line up to a line 3 1/2" from the top 

Like this and post a picture of the front end.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nevermind this one, I just saw your reply! Gimme a sec....


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I left the square there in case that helps with anything. Did you know (of course you did) that they put a little drawing hole at 3 1/2" on a speed square? That's awesome!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I left the square there in case that helps with anything. Did you know (of course you did) that they put a little drawing hole at 3 1/2" on a speed square? That's awesome!


 They also make 2x4s 3 1/2" wide :biggrin2:
Your saw should have come with a slide in fence for ripping straight.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Do you still have a pile of 2x8s that you didn't use?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Here's my saw, sorta. It doesn't have a fence (that I know of).


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Do you still have a pile of 2x8s that you didn't use?


I have a pile of 2x6's, but no 2x8's.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Am I ready to cut?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Here's my saw, sorta. It doesn't have a fence (that I know of).


 They used to come with every saw. they fit in the slots at the front of the saw.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Am I ready to cut?


 I want to see you lay out for the front of the rafter. And mark the first one as pattern as you will use the same one to mark out the rest.
There is an easy mistake at the front I want to catch if you made it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I want to see you lay out for the front of the rafter. And mark the first one as pattern as you will use the same one to mark out the rest.
> There is an easy mistake at the front I want to catch if you made it.



I'll do you one better than that, I didn't make that mistake!
How? You see, I haven't marked the front yet, just the back! 

How's that for staying away from danger? :biggrin2:

(thinking out loud here)
My guess is I just go 124 3/4" plus 6" (overhang) from the end - wait, I add 3 1/2" to that to account for the top plate...so that's 6" from the end, plus 3 1/2" for the top plate, plus 124 3/4" for the interior. Total 134 1/4" from the end, Then I make another birdsmouth. 


Does that sound close?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I have a pile of 2x6's, but no 2x8's.


You can cut 10 pieces 22 7/16 to put between them over the outside edge of the walls, the last two my be slightly different so wait and cut to fit at the end.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'll do you one better than that, I didn't make that mistake!
> How? You see, I haven't marked the front yet, just the back!
> 
> How's that for staying away from danger? :biggrin2:
> ...


That will work just remember that the plumb cut goes up from the other end of the birds mouth.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> That will work just remember that the plumb cut goes up from the other end of the birds mouth.



hold on just a hot second. It goes the opposite way? How does that work? So the short end (1 3/16" goes toward the front overhang instead of the back wall on the front birdsmouth? 

Just making sure. I got my 134-something inch mark made already and this confused me.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> hold on just a hot second. It goes the opposite way? How does that work? So the short end (1 3/16" goes toward the front overhang instead of the back wall on the front birdsmouth?
> 
> Just making sure. I got my 134-something inch mark made already and this confused me.


 You confused, you just figured that out.
:biggrin2:


Yes the birds mouth faces the same way as the back that the back of the front wall and the plumb cut goes up from the front of the wall 

the 1 3/4" is for the wall only. You are only using 1 3/16" 



lay it out and post a picture, let's not screw it up now.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Here's a pic with the plumb cut on the front of the wall. I still think it looks wrong. :-/


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Here's a pic with the plumb cut on the front of the wall. I still think it looks wrong. :-/


no, give me a few minutes.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Yeah, I was pretty sure that was buggered up. I'm going to move all my boards to the deck and hope they don't warp extra bad in the rain tonight. How do you deal with them warping when they get wet? 

I'm worried they'll all look like dried snakes by the time I get them on the roof, haha.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Here's a pic with the plumb cut on the front of the wall. I still think it looks wrong. :-/


 Like this


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Like this



Haha, that's what I thought to begin with. I really did get confused. I was thinking, "Those walls are identical where they hit the rafter. How can it go backwards from here?" 

Ok, I'll do another. Is this right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Haha, that's what I thought to begin with. I really did get confused. I was thinking, "Those walls are identical where they hit the rafter. How can it go backwards from here?"
> 
> Ok, I'll do another. Is this right?


almost when you have it laid out set it up on top like before and stand back and look at it and see if it makes sense.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Yeah, I was pretty sure that was buggered up. I'm going to move all my boards to the deck and hope they don't warp extra bad in the rain tonight. How do you deal with them warping when they get wet?
> 
> I'm worried they'll all look like dried snakes by the time I get them on the roof, haha.


If they are kiln dry like they look, they will need to be out in the rain for a few seasons to get wet like you are thinking. They can be out in the rain for weeks with little to no effect. but you can cover them with poly or bits of plywood or what have you. I hope you have crowned them.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> If they are kiln dry like they look, they will need to be out in the rain for a few seasons to get wet like you are thinking. They can be out in the rain for weeks with little to no effect. but you can cover them with poly or bits of plywood or what have you. I hope you have crowned them.



I did. there's almost no crown to them at all, but some are more than others. It looks like these 16' boards are cut much better than they cut 2x4s 8' long.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I did. there's almost no crown to them at all, but some are more than others. It looks like these 16' boards are cut much better than they cut 2x4s 8' long.


It is all about where they are in the tree, you would like less in 2x4s and more in 2x10s, go figure. It's not the cut it is just wood and some wood types are better or worse.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Hmm, i guess that makes sense. Once I get the cut done and laid up there, how is it best to tie them to the top plate? Toe nails like the door frame?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Hmm, i guess that makes sense. Once I get the cut done and laid up there, how is it best to tie them to the top plate? Toe nails like the door frame?


 Set the first one up there before you cut it and see if all your measurements look like they work.
If everything looks right use that for a pattern and mark and cut them all.
After cutting check each one against the pattern and correct what you can or mark them where they will be wrong so you can work with them as you install. Some my need a shim under the birdsmouth and some may have the birdsmouth off a little, a little note helps you put it in the right place. 



No, I don't expect perfect cuts but I want you to try and then we work the plan for putting them up. Remember, no over cutting, stop and finish the inside corners by hand or jig saw.


Those 2x6 blocks match them up, if they are not all the same exactly pair them up so they are a set of two one front and one back are a matched set. And number them 1-5


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Set it up like this when you are ready to put them up. 

lean them all against the front wall with front facing up at about 2 ft intervals . 

Pick up the Back end, slide it forward so you can climb the ladder and set it in place.
From there try to wiggle the front end close to position. 

Nail in place with 2 3" nails, install a block nailing down toenail from the back and thru the rafter, move over and do the next.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Then like this.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Straighten a curve with a wedge in the center


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

2x4 end liners will stick out 8" on both ends use blocks under corners and a nail at 8 inches to help position them


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Set the first one up there before you cut it and see if all your measurements look like they work.
> If everything looks right use that for a pattern and mark and cut them all.
> After cutting check each one against the pattern and correct what you can or mark them where they will be wrong so you can work with them as you install. Some my need a shim under the birdsmouth and some may have the birdsmouth off a little, a little note helps you put it in the right place.
> 
> ...



It didn't fit. i was off by MILES because I didn't account for the angle going from 6 feet on the back wall (about) to 10' on the front. Here's a pic of the fun morning and what I did:

First i threw the board up there and gasped at the mismeasurement. Nice how far it was off from where it should have been, huh? I'm glad I didn't cut yet!











I remarked it at the right place this time and pulled it back down. 











Then I measured the heck out of it all and wrote it on this board. It's not easy to see, but it's all there so i can make good copies.












Then I chopped it and it fit! If I messed up I'll just get another board. I've only cut one so far and it looks good to my untrained eyes. Here's the back.













And the front:
















And FORTY SEVEN AND A HALF INCHES OF OVERHANG ON THE FRONT. Haha! That made me laugh. I like all the overhang, but it'll block the light in the tight space. It would be good for all the hail we have around here though.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

all my Measurements on a better board. The 9 9/16 at the front should be to the back of the birds mouth. not the front. I couldn't read the ugly board 
It's 6 7/8ths to the beginning of the bitds mouth.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm going to go ahead and cut all the 2x10s to 16' right now to be ready for you to tell me to go forward or stop everything and shoot myself


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> all my Measurements on a better board. The 9 9/16 at the front should be to the back of the birds mouth. not the front. I couldn't read the ugly board
> It's 6 7/8ths to the beginning of the bitds mouth.


 Looks like you have it now.?? Aren't you glad I wouldn't let you cut it before.


Now you see why we just put it up there and mark every thing out. :wink2:


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Double check the front wall to back wall dimensions at top and bottom before cutting.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Got it boys! Those things got heavy before the end of the day! 

I'll post a pic in a minute. The only part I didn't get was the last block because we got hit by the tornado sirens and I had to go watch the news.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

How about that overhang? Bwahahaha!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> How about that overhang? Bwahahaha!


So when do you finish cutting them.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So when do you finish cutting them.



They're so high up there I'll probably have to build a 2x4 ladder up there to reach them. Should I do that part next?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 2x4 end liners will stick out 8" on both ends use blocks under corners and a nail at 8 inches to help position them













hold on, I didn't do this thing with the 2x4s yet. How's this work? I don't understand where/how this fits in the mix.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> hold on, I didn't do this thing with the 2x4s yet. How's this work? I don't understand where/how this fits in the mix.


 This is a late time to try to understand. 



Back up 20 posts here and read _*all *_that I have written, I have been trying to protect you from mistakes that make this really hard


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> that's kinda the look I was going for but with more front overhang. About double or so of that.


 Did you look at this before you said you like this, you never asked one question, you have to make things happen, but first you have to think about it.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> hold on, I didn't do this thing with the 2x4s yet. How's this work? I don't understand where/how this fits in the mix.


 What did you not understand here and how would I know you did not understand what I was taking my time to draw pictures.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> What did you not understand here and how would I know you did not understand what I was taking my time to draw pictures.



This pic with the 1 3/16, 3 1/2, up line, then 3 1/2 line was to make sure my measurement was right on the board (my understanding). 


The pic with the 2x4 and 8" tack board I don't understand because I don't know what role the 2x4 plays in the building. Is it the front rail board that goes on the rafters in front?

I was pretty sure i was following along OK, but maybe I got lost somewhere and didn't realize it? Dang, i was pretty proud of getting so far in a day.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> This pic with the 1 3/16, 3 1/2, up line, then 3 1/2 line was to make sure my measurement was right on the board (my understanding).
> 
> 
> The pic with the 2x4 and 8" tack board I don't understand because I don't know what role the 2x4 plays in the building. Is it the front rail board that goes on the rafters in front?
> ...


 Have you seen this before.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Have you seen this before.



Yes, but I didn't put the two together until right now. So I should hav cut them down so they're skinny on the ends? Doesn't that make them weaker on the ends?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

after looking at the lines to cut I'm about to bawl my eyes out. There's no way to get a saw up there and cut it against the blocks flush (that I can see). I might need to tear it all back out and cut those thin sections, then drag it all back up there again.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

When you don't understand something you just ignore that part.
You placed your piers wrong, then built the floor to big, I thought you would have slowed down after that. 

Now you have work to do maybe 12 feet in the air. At 12 feet you can kill your self, how do I trust that you will ask any question and follow every step of instruction.


You need to make some very sober commitments to me, if you don't want me to quit.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Yes, but I didn't put the two together until right now. So I should hav cut them down so they're skinny on the ends? Doesn't that make them weaker on the ends?



I am not going to have you build something to weak and you didn't put the two together because you think stopping to think is wasting your time, when all you want to do is build. 

Stopping to re think and correct and change plans, you have wasted half the time you have been using.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You can go for a look like this but there are a bunch of steps that have to be talked about. This also doubles the cost of materiel.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Maybe I do get carried away a bit. It's tough to know what you don't know until you post a picture and someone says, "You did that wrong". I know it's frustrating to you too, and I'm sorry about that. 

I didn't ask any questions because I thought I "got it". 

I fully 100% thought I was doing it right and didn't once stop to think I had messed up. I can for sure cut the overhang down to 21" from the wall - that's easy with a skillsaw and a ladder. I can use a plumb to make sure it's level top to bottom. My angle is 21 degrees, which I found by making the birdsmouth. 

It's those weird cuts to the rafters next to the wall that I don't have any idea how i'll be able to do them. These:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Maybe I do get carried away a bit. It's tough to know what you don't know until you post a picture and someone says, "You did that wrong". I know it's frustrating to you too, and I'm sorry about that.
> 
> I 100% thought I was doing it right and didn't once stop to think I had messed up. I can for sure cut the overhang down to 21" from the wall - that's easy with a skillsaw and a ladder.
> 
> It's those weird cuts to the rafters next to the wall that I don't have any idea how i'll be able to do them. These:


 Actually the cuts are not the problem, we can talk about that, at some point you need a scaffolding to work on the soffit and the top of the wall so that could be built now. Can I trust you to pay attention long enough to understand what is needed and how to do it. 



Along the way I have asked you to do things and check things, as you don't question them or talk about them, I can only assume that you understood and did them, now looking at the picture I can see you haven't done them. 

If the walls aren't perfectly straight, do we fix it when the sheeting doesn't fit or when the drywall doesn't fit, or when the soffit looks really goofy.


So, you are going to spend more time talking with me and we are going to back up a bit and double check a few things, _*Please*_


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I can think of 4 options, all have there own problems to deal with.
We can talk about the back later.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Actually the cuts are not the problem, we can talk about that, at some point you need a scaffolding to work on the soffit and the top of the wall so that could be built now. Can I trust you to pay attention long enough to understand what is needed and how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure we got the walls straight. I laid a level to them before putting the rafters up to be sure. They're level and measure right. I also didn't see any bows after the rafters went up. 

I'll check it all again if you want though. 

Just tell me what to do next and I'll do it._ I can't promise I won't get drowned or lost in all the complications_, but try to be patient because I'm new, very *dumb*, and don't have a clue when I do it wrong or what questions to ask until I've already bungled it up occasionally. 

I've taken about 18 pages of notes so far as I go , so I'm learning. That's a positive.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I can think of 4 options, all have there own problems to deal with.
> We can talk about the back later.


out of these four options, which one do you recommend? If you think I can go back and cut them right even with them being next to the wall like that then let's do that. I want to do it right if I still can.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'm pretty sure we got the walls straight. I laid a level to them before putting the rafters up to be sure. They're level and measure right. I also didn't see any bows after the rafters went up.
> 
> I'll check it all again if you want though.
> 
> ...



Fair enough and understand about learning as you go. 

But understand, you don't git it until some one other says you got it. 



How many times the other day were you ready and wanting to cut the rafters
You had one thing in mind and that was I want to get this done today. 

That is not the goal anymore. The goal is get it right, get it safe.
All you had to do the other day was take a picture and post and ask if you are ready. 

Your walls may be straight, we don't trust them to stay straight we guaranty they will stay straight and strong, at some point some one has to climb on that roof we don't put that person in danger of a building moving or falling so we take steps along the way so we don't have to go back and re think every thing later. You may think that slows you down but it makes things go smoother and smoother is faster.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> out of these four options, which one do you recommend? If you think I can go back and cut them right even with them being next to the wall like that then let's do that. I want to do it right if I still can.


 You will need a new toy if you don't have one.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=reci...nsTiAhVBRKwKHQZjDMAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1024&bih=738


With a 10 or 12 inch long blade the blade will curve enough to follow the blocks you have between the rafters, or you can do the same with a hand saw. It is not the easiest way to use that saw, there are tricks to everything and closer to the time you are ready we can talk about that.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'm pretty sure we got the walls straight. I laid a level to them before putting the rafters up to be sure. They're level and measure right. I also didn't see any bows after the rafters went up.
> 
> I'll check it all again if you want though.
> 
> ...


 Next step and I want all of them 

1. Front wall measure up from the floor or the plate, as long as they are all the same 54" mark and the drive a 3" nail in about half way as per the arrows. 

2, Back wall measure up 54", mark it and then drive 3" nails half way in. 



3. Back wall place a nail in each end and pull a tight string between them.


4. Tuck 2 equal thickness blocks behind the string, if the string is tight enough, and the blocks are small enough they will stay there. Check a few place along the wall to see if they are all the same and report back.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

The string goes on the top plate?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Got all the nails in, but not sure where to put the string. Going to send you a PM too.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Got all the nails in, but not sure where to put the string. Going to send you a PM too.


 We want to check the top plate for straight so put the nails in the ends.
The blocks on each is just get it away so you can measure in the middle.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok I have 1/8” bow outward in the back wall in the middle. Do I do the front top plate too?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok I have 1/8” bow outward in the back wall in the middle. Do I do the front top plate too?


 Get an 8 ft 2x4 lean it against the front wall at a 45" angle, 2 nails in the floor and then nail the top with the nails more in a down ward direction the more you hit it down the more you move both walls
The front wall should be fine and not much we can do with the rafters there. they work as one now.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

On the front wall door jacks?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> On the front wall door jacks?


Yes I may take two one one each side of the door,


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> On the front wall door jacks?



Then I want 3 long braces from high on the back wall to the bottom of the front wall , you can scab shorts together with an overlap .
The middle one can be nailed to a 2x4 block nailed to the floor


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Weird how well that worked. I expected it to pull the whole back wall. Ok, what’s next?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Weird how well that worked. I expected it to pull the whole back wall. Ok, what’s next?


 While do the next post, grab you circ, saw I want some measurements so we can build some cutting jigs to make these cuts perfect. 

I will need the measures from the side of the table to the teeth of the blade and including the teeth on both sides. 4 measurements.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

One on the end, one in the middle and one in the other end or three tied together?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

this is what we are building for scaffolding We want this strong and it will be there for you to do a bunch of work at the front, all the way to finish work. 

Questions.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Saw measurements 3 11/16” from motor side to blade, blade is exactly 1/16”, 1 1/4” from skinny side to blade. 

On phone so have to post this and check the 4th measurement


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

3 3/ on motor side including blade
1 3/8 on skinny side including blade


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Braces are they one post on each side and one middle?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Braces are they one post on each side and one middle?



Yes the middle one can go right in the middle to a block on the floor. 

Do you have a long angle brace on the front wall,. can't see it in the picture.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I hav one brace on each side on the Front wall. 

With the three new floor to back wall braces I’m doing now I’ll have six braces on the back wall


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I hav one brace on each side on the Front wall.
> 
> With the three new floor to back wall braces I’m doing now I’ll have six braces on the back wall


Life may depend on how all this stuff is built.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Gotcha. Just wanted to confirm 6 back wall braces was the target


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Gotcha. Just wanted to confirm 6 back wall braces was the target


No just 3 from *high* on the back wall to *bottom* of the front will do it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh, ok so just one more in the middle. Already one on each side. Thumbs up


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> this is what we are building for scaffolding We want this strong and it will be there for you to do a bunch of work at the front, all the way to finish work.
> 
> Questions.


Does it nail to front wall?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Does it nail to front wall?


Yes right at the bottom.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

2x10 14’ long is new or on bldg? I’m out of 2x10s again 

Inventory
4 x 2x4 14’ long
14x 2x4 10’ long
10x 2x4 8’ long
6x 2x4 12’ long treated
11x 2x6 10’ long treated

Can go buy more if necessary.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Also 1 4x4’ sheet 3/4” plywood 😉


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> 2x10 14’ long is new or on bldg? I’m out of 2x10s again
> 
> Inventory
> 4 x 2x4 14’ long
> ...


Let me look at that but the 14 ft 2x4s sit on the nails sticking out the front at the front wall, *well nailed*. they want blocks under them. And each get a 10 ft standing up, you could just use the treated 2x6 x12 ft for those.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If you go shopping add up what you need for side walls because this scaffolding will be there for a long time. I am thinking safety so I would prefer that you had one or two 2x10s to walk on.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok a few questions. i don't see where it ties in to the front wall. And i don't know what these boards are. 



Can you tell me where to get started on the scaffolding?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok a few questions. i don't see where it ties in to the front wall. And i don't know what these boards are.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me where to get started on the scaffolding?


 earlier you measured and set nails in the front and back wall, set 14 ft 2x4 so they sit on those nails and nail them in 

The boards that are black are your front and back wall.
The brown to the right is a 10 ft or more standing on the ground nailed to the side of the 14 ft right at the end.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

The nails are at 54”, can’t reach front overhang well that low. Ok if I go up to 7’ or so? I’m only 6’ tall 😉


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> The nails are at 54”, can’t reach front overhang well that low. Ok if I go up to 7’ or so? I’m only 6’ tall 😉


 You will be sorry, that is too high. Yes some reaching will be uncomfortable,but I am looking forward to what you need later. 72+ 54 = 126, later you will work on soffit and siding.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Let me look at that but the 14 ft 2x4s sit on the nails sticking out the front at the front wall, *well nailed*. they want blocks under them. And each get a 10 ft standing up, you could just use the treated 2x6 x12 ft for those.


We will need 6 more 14 ft 2x4 to finis the roof, 2 of them could be shorter and be put up in pieces.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, about to start building...this all sticks to the FRONT wall, right? Here's what I'm imagining from the pics:







Then I use the 2x6's to make a plank that goes from the front wall 2x4 to the free standing posts to hold me up?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, about to start building...this all sticks to the FRONT wall, right? Here's what I'm imagining from the pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like this .


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

2x6 for walking planks should work if you feel comfortable on them.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, so the blocks actually go on the king studs on the inside of the walls, like this, to hold the 2x4s up?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, so the blocks actually go on the king studs on the inside of the walls, like this, to hold the 2x4s up?


don't need them on the back wall but do need them on the other end on the up right.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Dang it buddy you just wantd me to do that so I'd bang my head on them every time I walk through haha! 

Ok, i got the 2x4s put in and braced on the ground to the uprights. What part comes next? The 2x6's?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Dang it buddy you just wantd me to do that so I'd bang my head on them every time I walk through haha!
> 
> Ok, i got the 2x4s put in and braced on the ground to the uprights. What part comes next? The 2x6's?


 Yes if you have the red angle braces on the up rights.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok I did NOT get the red angle braces, so I'm doing that now 

And then to be 100% sure, the 2x6's go longways across the 2x4s sticking out the front of my house here now (the head bangers), right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok I did NOT get the red angle braces, so I'm doing that now
> 
> And then to be 100% sure, the 2x6's go longways across the 2x4s sticking out the front of my house here now (the head bangers), right?


One nail thru the 2x6 into the 2x4s will do just to stop them from sliding.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, got it! What's next amigo? We're making great progress here and gues what? I can reach the rafters after all. It's like you've done this before or something


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok I did NOT get the red angle braces, so I'm doing that now
> 
> And then to be 100% sure, the 2x6's go longways across the 2x4s sticking out the front of my house here now (the head bangers), right?


Then you can go up and install the railing. This needs to be a the right height so when you fall you hit you chin on it on the way by. :devil3:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Then you can go up and install the railing. This needs to be a the right height so when you fall you hit you chin on it on the way by. :devil3:


 Tell me how the height feels and it feels safe enough up, not wobbly.
Next is to make a little jig so your cuts are perfect.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I have assumed the the saw measures 5 inches to the blade on one side and 1 1/2" on the other. You can correct me if that is wrong, not to important for the first jig. We need this out of plywood, nice straight cuts, and the angle wants to be perfect, you measured it the other day. 

Nice straight cuts, tack straight board down to ride the table on if you have to.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Gotta take 15 mins and eat some bbq chicken with the kids. Be right back!

Scaffold feels great. It's too high for me because I'm scared of heights, but the rail makes me feel a little safer. Work up there will be s....l...o...w..... so be prepared


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Then you can nail that to a 2x4 about the same length. flush with the top edge. see picture.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Saw measurements:

3 11/16” from motor side to blade, 
blade is exactly 1/16”, 
1 1/4” from skinny side of the saw to the blade. 
3 3/4 on motor side *including *blade
1 3/8 on skinny side *including *blade


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Saw measurements:
> 
> 3 11/16” from motor side to blade,
> blade is exactly 1/16”,
> ...


 So in this picture change the 16 to 17 1/4"


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Dumb question, but is this how i'd cut 21 degrees for the 16" (now 17 1/4) piece? I put the speed square down at 21 degrees but it seems like a really slight angle. 
I just don't want to mess it up. This is my last plywood.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Dumb question, but is this how i'd cut 21 degrees for the 16" (now 17 1/4) piece? I put the speed square down at 21 degrees but it seems like a really slight angle.
> I just don't want to mess it up. This is my last plywood.


Yes, the plumb was 21, yes.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, i *think* I got it measured out right, but (like before) I'm going to cut it rough and hold it up to the rafters to make sure it's the same tomorrow. 

I'm going to knock off for the day now. it's 9:34 here and I'm a beat puppy. We got a lot done today though. Thanks Neal! 

Tomorrow I'll cut it out and attach the board to the back of it at about 9:00 AM CST.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, i *think* I got it measured out right, but (like before) I'm going to cut it rough and hold it up to the rafters to make sure it's the same tomorrow.
> 
> I'm going to knock off for the day now. it's 9:34 here and I'm a beat puppy. We got a lot done today though. Thanks Neal!
> 
> Tomorrow I'll cut it out and attach the board to the back of it at about 9:00 AM CST.



Just make sure you nail the 2x4 on, on the right side do when you put the saw beside it, it will cat at 21" or close to 21" 



If when you put this up against the rafter, watch out for the 2x6 blocks if they are not plumb they can give you a bad cut, beat them back to flush.


You will have one on the end that will be tricky to get to.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

next jig. to make the 3 1/2 inches high at top.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

see posts 419 and 420 before this one. 



up cut by the wall. do not cut to high.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

As luck would have it I got rained out today. We'll have to pick it up on Monday (barring more rain - we've had enough!)

I had to run out there and get my saw and plyboards in as it started sprinkling, but all is safe. Just itching to get back on it now and glaring out the windows.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> As luck would have it I got rained out today. We'll have to pick it up on Monday (barring more rain - we've had enough!)
> 
> I had to run out there and get my saw and plyboards in as it started sprinkling, but all is safe. Just itching to get back on it now and glaring out the windows.


You were going to need the scaffolding anyway you really havn't lost much time. We will have to deal with the back too.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You were going to need the scaffolding anyway you really havn't lost much time. We will have to deal with the back too.


That's OK. I had fun building and crawling on it. We ate dinner up there (me and the daughter) last night between hanging boards. 
:biggrin2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That's OK. I had fun building and crawling on it. We ate dinner up there (me and the daughter) last night between hanging boards.
> :biggrin2:


So It is stiff enough and feels safe?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So It is stiff enough and feels safe?


Absolutely. I'm 180lbs and it felt fine. i'm scared of heights so I wasn't exactly jumping rope on it, but it was good and sturdy. After putting the flooring in on it (and I couldn't see the ground so easily anymore) I felt a lot more comfortable. 

And the handrail is right where my chin would land :wink2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Absolutely. I'm 180lbs and it felt fine. i'm scared of heights so I wasn't exactly jumping rope on it, but it was good and sturdy. After putting the flooring in on it (and I couldn't see the ground so easily anymore) I felt a lot more comfortable.
> 
> And the handrail is right where my chin would land :wink2:


The last on on the left will be a problem, we can re configure the jig for that so cut it from the other side. That would have you cutting down instead of up but you will be on the scaffolding.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Absolutely. I'm 180lbs and it felt fine. i'm scared of heights so I wasn't exactly jumping rope on it, but it was good and sturdy. After putting the flooring in on it (and I couldn't see the ground so easily anymore) I felt a lot more comfortable.
> 
> And the handrail is right where my chin would land :wink2:



On the back we can gain an inch or more if we draw the 3 1/2" line first.
Then we cut up from there.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

If you get up and see this, I’m recutting the first jig. Messed up the angle somewhere and got it at 23 deg instead of 21.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> next jig. to make the 3 1/2 inches high at top.


Ok, finally figured out the angle nonsense after watching a bunch of youtubers and whatnot. Now I'm looking at the 3 3/4 jig, but it's going to leave a portion against the blocks the way I understand it. Is that right?

Edit - Nevermind, I just got what the demo saw does. I need to get a bigger blade to cut that part.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, finally figured out the angle nonsense after watching a bunch of youtubers and whatnot. Now I'm looking at the 3 3/4 jig, but it's going to leave a portion against the blocks the way I understand it. Is that right?


 It is to set it on top and cut the 3 1/2" from the top. 

so 3 3/4 in plywood with a 1 1/2" behind it leave it down 2 1/4.
When you run the small side of the saw against that the blade will be 3 1/2" from the top of the rafter.
You will tack this in place when you use it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow, what a day. I had to cut that first jig FOUR TIMES to get it right. I ran through most of my 4x4 sheet of plywood, haha. But I finally got it right and it lined up pretty good. I did have to pound two blocks up flush. 

The 3 1/2" jig will slide around pretty good so I'll need to run a screw through it into the rafter. Is that OK? 

And the saw will leave a bit of uncut wood (horizontal cut) up by the blocks when I use the 3 1/2" jig. As I understand it, that'll get cut with the reciprocating saw. Is that freehand? 

If so, I'll go ahead and cut them all today. 

Funny thing, every time I tied a 2x4 to the back of one of my jigs I always tried to make it flat against the jig. you know, longways? Of course that made me learn some new fun words when i went up to measure it. :vs_laugh:


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> Wow, what a day. I had to cut that first jig FOUR TIMES to get it right. I ran through most of my 4x4 sheet of plywood, haha. But I finally got it right and it lined up pretty good. I did have to pound two blocks up flush.
> 
> The 3 1/2" jig will slide around pretty good so I'll need to run a screw through it into the rafter. Is that OK?
> 
> ...





Run a piece of scrap first to check.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Wow, what a day. I had to cut that first jig FOUR TIMES to get it right. I ran through most of my 4x4 sheet of plywood, haha. But I finally got it right and it lined up pretty good. I did have to pound two blocks up flush.
> 
> The 3 1/2" jig will slide around pretty good so I'll need to run a screw through it into the rafter. Is that OK?
> 
> ...


You could finish that cut with the re cip saw, hand saw or go to the other side of the rafter with the skill saw.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I got the front all finished! I'll post a pic in a minute. But the back, I kinda buggerred it up a little. Not on purpose, but I was holding the skilsaw and cutting the plumb line on one of the rafters on the rear, lost my footing, and fell. 
I'm fine, but the board is cut a little short. I'm wondering if I can cut a little shim and put it up there. Instead of going plumb down, I went plumb down and inward at an angle. 

Kinda like this:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Front all purdy


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I got the front all finished! I'll post a pic in a minute. But the back, I kinda buggerred it up a little. Not on purpose, but I was holding the skilsaw and cutting the plumb line on one of the rafters on the rear, lost my footing, and fell.
> I'm fine, but the board is cut a little short. I'm wondering if I can cut a little shim and put it up there. Instead of going plumb down, I went plumb down and inward at an angle.
> 
> Kinda like this:


Not to worry, that is fixable, so you have all the front and back cut?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Not to worry, that is fixable, so you have all the front and back cut?


Yes, the front and back is all cut. All turned out pretty good except for that one board. I'm glad we can fix it. I worried we'd have to replace the whole board to make it look right.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Yes, the front and back is all cut. All turned out pretty good except for that one board. I'm glad we can fix it. I worried we'd have to replace the whole board to make it look right.


 Did you buy lumber yet, we will need 4 14 foot 2x4. 



If not, there is other stuff you can get ready with shorter pieces.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Yes, the front and back is all cut. All turned out pretty good except for that one board. I'm glad we can fix it. I worried we'd have to replace the whole board to make it look right.


 we will be putting 8" blocks out from the sides of the end ones for the side ladder and you can just cut a 2x4 at the right angle and length to correct that one.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Did you buy lumber yet, we will need 4 14 foot 2x4.
> 
> 
> 
> If not, there is other stuff you can get ready with shorter pieces.



I haven't, but I can tomorrow. 

Will the 8" blocks be 2x6's like the other blocks? If so, I still have a lot of those. 

Anything else I need for the next few days besides those 4 14 footers? I use coupons at 100$ intervals so I try to buy 100 worth of stuff each time to get 20% off. 
:wink2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I haven't, but I can tomorrow.
> 
> Will the 8" blocks be 2x6's like the other blocks? If so, I still have a lot of those.
> 
> ...


 No these blocks are 2x4, all matching. 

We will need 4 paint grade 1x6 or 2x6 x 14 ft to finish the roof, we can buy a brushed wood that comes pre primed with oil base primer if you can get that. 

7 sheets of 7/16 OSB 

a bag of H clips. 



https://www.homedepot.ca/product/si...ch-plywood-sheathing-clip-50-pack-/1000402910


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I'd rather use plywood than OSB if we can. I've heard too many horror stories about it disintegrating or getting prematurely weak. Can I get 7/16" plywood instead?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I'd rather use plywood than OSB if we can. I've heard too many horror stories about it disintegrating or getting prematurely weak. Can I get 7/16" plywood instead?


We work in the rain, OSB has a rough surface to walk on, It does not have ply separation, we charge more for working with plywood. Yes you can get 1/2" plywood.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Why do you charge more for working with plywood? I thought it was supposed to be a better product.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Why do you charge more for working with plywood? I thought it was supposed to be a better product.


It takes longer when the roof is more slippery. It might be more what you get used to, but I prefer it. And it come with lines for nailing. :biggrin2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, what's next? I'm assuming (not doing!) that we build the side overhang area with 2x4s then screw it to the outside rafters. Still assuming, I lay the 2x4 boards (2 for each side) up next to the rafter, mark the lines to make it match, and cut it. Then use 2x4 blocks to spread them apart 46 inches so I have plenty of overhang on the sides, for aerodynamics - like an airplane.

But that's just an assumption.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, what's next? I'm assuming (not doing!) that we build the side overhang area with 2x4s then screw it to the outside rafters. Still assuming, I lay the 2x4 boards (2 for each side) up next to the rafter, mark the lines to make it match, and cut it. Then use 2x4 blocks to spread them apart 46 inches so I have plenty of overhang on the sides, for aerodynamics - like an airplane.
> 
> But that's just an assumption.


 can do the one against the wall in pieces, I said 8" blocks they would be screwed to the rafter with short 2x4 between them or 6 1/2 " blocks screwed to the 2x4 and then put up. Or you can build the whole thing with 6 1/2" blocks and 2 2x4s and put it up in one piece. Any way you do it, it is a pain in the ass.


We only need about 5 blocks space out.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> can do the one against the wall in pieces, I said 8" blocks they would be screwed to the rafter with short 2x4 between them or 6 1/2 " blocks screwed to the 2x4 and then put up. Or you can build the whole thing with 6 1/2" blocks and 2 2x4s and put it up in one piece. Any way you do it, it is a pain in the ass.
> 
> 
> We only need about 5 blocks space out.



Pain in the _butt_, you mean. :wink2:

Ok, so I think putting it together and then holding it up would be easiest since it's just me and one rickety ladder. I'll cut some 6 1/2" blocks once it stops raining. We're under a flood watch right now and already had 6" of rain today alone. This is a very weird year. 

It's better than a drought though. Those were some tough years!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Pain in the _butt_, you mean. :wink2:
> 
> Ok, so I think putting it together and then holding it up would be easiest since it's just me and one rickety ladder. I'll cut some 6 1/2" blocks once it stops raining. We're under a flood watch right now and already had 6" of rain today alone. This is a very weird year.
> 
> It's better than a drought though. Those were some tough years!


 So you will need 6 14 foot 2x4
You can just measure the top of the rafter and that is a long to short of the angles, I think you said 21 degrees. so you make 4 2x4 rafters to match the top of the rafters. 
Then you just screw blocks on the front and back, sticking out the side a foot and you can just set the ladder up on them.


Do a lay out on both 2x4s so you keep them square to each other.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I dont think I understand the “sticking out a foot and just put your Ladder against it” part.



And do I put the 6 1/2” blocks a set amount apart or just all four around a 2 feet apart?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I dont think I understand the “sticking out a foot and just put your Ladder against it” part.
> 
> 
> 
> And do I put the 6 1/2” blocks a set amount apart or just all four around a 2 feet apart?


 The 6 1/2" blocks want to be laid out so they are on the same measurement on both 2x4s, the exact lay out can be 24" or 30 " or 36" on center. 



On the front and back of the building right up under the rafter, if you nail a block there sticking out it will hold the ladder in place while you get every thing attached and they make it easy for you to get it up there by yourself.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The 6 1/2" blocks want to be laid out so they are on the same measurement on both 2x4s, the exact lay out can be 24" or 30 " or 36" on center.
> 
> 
> 
> On the front and back of the building right up under the rafter, if you nail a block there sticking out it will hold the ladder in place while you get every thing attached and they make it easy for you to get it up there by yourself.



Roger that. I'll finish the sides tomorrow. i cut the 6 1/2" blocks today and and the 2x4s. I'm going to put them on 24" centers. To be clear, I don't put any blocks at the ends where they overhang, right? Just on the part that has building next to it. 


Is the roofing after that? I should be finished with the sides by 10am.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Roger that. I'll finish the sides tomorrow. i cut the 6 1/2" blocks today and and the 2x4s. I'm going to put them on 24" centers. To be clear, I don't put any blocks at the ends where they overhang, right? Just on the part that has building next to it.
> 
> 
> Is the roofing after that? I should be finished with the sides by 10am.


You want the 2x4 across the front and back of the rafters, check them for straight, then you will be ready for sheeting, don't forget the H clips.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You want the 2x4 across the front and back of the rafters, check them for straight, then you will be ready for sheeting, don't forget the H clips.



I did buy the H clips, but have no idea what to do with them 


EDIT: Oh, i watched a video and it *looks* like you put them midway between your rafters to keep the sheets of decking tied together. They're just plugged in there, not nailed or anything. 

Is that right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I did buy the H clips, but have no idea what to do with them



After you have the bottom row on and nailed Put one H between the rafters in each bay where it is 24 OC 

Outing the next sheet down can be tricky, we stand the sheet up straight just above the clips and fit it length ways and then lower the top down watching that it is slipping into the H clips. It takes a little patients to get them right. 



I was hoping to find a video on laying the plywood down, but this is a good video.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If you find them impossible, you can cheat like this.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Those videos were very helpful. I got the side parts up yesterday then it rained again (not in the forecast). Sheathing is today unless it rains again. Kinda skeerd about getting on the roof being so high up, but it's only 4 pitch so I'll suck it up, haha. 

For the roof insulation, am I pushing it UP into the cavity? What holds it up there? I know it's not time for insulation yet (I still have two walls to raise, haha) but with the sheathing on I can't push insulation down.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Friction holds it until you close it up.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Those videos were very helpful. I got the side parts up yesterday then it rained again (not in the forecast). Sheathing is today unless it rains again. Kinda skeerd about getting on the roof being so high up, but it's only 4 pitch so I'll suck it up, haha.
> 
> For the roof insulation, am I pushing it UP into the cavity? What holds it up there? I know it's not time for insulation yet (I still have two walls to raise, haha) but with the sheathing on I can't push insulation down.


Insulation is 1 inch wider for a friction fit.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I got one level of sheathing on today. Going was slow because i'm scared of heights but I followed the directions in your video, with screws every 8 inches along the rafters. 

I need to stagger the lines like the floor, right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I got one level of sheathing on today. Going was slow because i'm scared of heights but I followed the directions in your video, with screws every 8 inches along the rafters.
> 
> I need to stagger the lines like the floor, right?


Yes. Once you get the first row it should feel a little safer.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

ok roof sheathing is up! Ill post a pic tomorrow. which part comes next? wife took 1 look at it and said "thats gonna leak" because of the h clip gap, haha!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> ok roof sheathing is up! Ill post a pic tomorrow. which part comes next? wife took 1 look at it and said "thats gonna leak" because of the h clip gap, haha!


 The ? x 6" fascia board goes on flush with the top of the sheeting. 

The back one goes on a little lower. the back top of the board wants to line up with the plane of the roof.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The ? x 6" fascia board goes on flush with the top of the sheeting.
> 
> The back one goes on a little lower. the back top of the board wants to line up with the plane of the roof.


what's the normal "x6" board? 1x6 or 2x6 or 10x6?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> what's the normal "x6" board? 1x6 or 2x6 or 10x6?


We usually do a 2x, more often it would be 2x10 but that really depends on the look you like. Here we get wood that has already been primed with an oil base on all sides and they stand up good


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We usually do a 2x, more often it would be 2x10 but that really depends on the look you like. Here we get wood that has already been primed with an oil base on all sides and they stand up good


Do you have any pictures I could look at to see what it looks like? (or google terms)


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This would be 2x6


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This looks like about 8 inch


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

And 2x10


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I kinda like the 8" in those pictures. So I get 4x 2x8s 12" long, and measure/cut, then prime/paint, and attach them up there, on all four sides?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I kinda like the 8" in those pictures. So I get 4x 2x8s 12" long, and measure/cut, then prime/paint, and attach them up there, on all four sides?


12 ft, double check that, I think you need 14s and you loose some to the angle on the side pieces.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 12 ft, double check that, I think you need 14s and you loose some to the angle on the side pieces.



You're right! I didn't think of that (again). I'll get 'em picked up and painted. Is there more i can pick up at the same time? I have those 20.00 off 100.00 coupons to spend


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> You're right! I didn't think of that (again). I'll get 'em picked up and painted. Is there more i can pick up at the same time? I have those 20.00 off 100.00 coupons to spend



You could post questions in roofing for the underlayment and roofing the drip edge for the back and what ever they call the flashing for the sides and front.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok Neal, let's talk about those side walls. How should I handle the angle there? I can build a straight wall just fine now (thank you!) but those angles because of the roof line give me the jitters.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey Neal....I see you giving up a lot of free advise and very little payment coming back.


You should insist on some pics first, ha.....:wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> Hey Neal....I see you giving up a lot of free advise and very little payment coming back.
> 
> 
> You should insist on some pics first, ha.....:wink2:


haha Pugsy, you're a picture hound like me. I get it! I posted a pic in the Roofing thread though. Neal was there :wink2:

Here's a link for you too amigo!

https://www.diychatroom.com/f9/ready-roof-661373/#post5861637


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok Neal, let's talk about those side walls. How should I handle the angle there? I can build a straight wall just fine now (thank you!) but those angles because of the roof line give me the jitters.


You build them in place, you can cut the bottom one to fit and then get up and measure the top angle one and cut that on the bevel 21 degrees long to short. I posted some pictures earlier, I will go find them.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok Neal, let's talk about those side walls. How should I handle the angle there? I can build a straight wall just fine now (thank you!) but those angles because of the roof line give me the jitters.


 See the long to short for the top plate


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Do your lay out from the front and the studs get cut on the same bevel, square to long. Questions????


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Do your lay out from the front and the studs get cut on the same bevel, square to long. Questions????



As usual I didn't fully understand this the first time. But this makes sense now. 

Questions: 

In this case since the rafters are already up, would it be easier to build the top plate then attach it to the rafters, then the sill, then cut studs for for inside? 
Or just build it normal and fit it up in there?
Is it also two boards thick like the other top plates? (assumed yes)
Do I need to worry about the AC plumbing yet or I can build that in later? It goes on the south wall. (right side of the bldg). 

Anything I should watch out for?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> As usual I didn't fully understand this the first time. But this makes sense now.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


 Little things can go wrong in a big way, we always build them in place 

All the braces are in the way for a floor build.

You only need one top plate. there is another one but it goes above the plate beside the rafter for the drywall backing on the ceiling.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Look OK. However, I don't see any angle bracing on the front or rear walls.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> Look OK. However, I don't see any angle bracing on the front or rear walls.


It's all there somewhere just below the picture


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Little things can go wrong in a big way, we always build them in place
> 
> All the braces are in the way for a floor build.
> 
> You only need one top plate. there is another one but it goes above the plate beside the rafter for the drywall backing on the ceiling.



Dang, you're right! There's going to be a 1 1/2" gap from the top plate to the rafters on the side walls. Does this go all the way to the roof? Or we'll get into that later? 


Pug: The bracing is all there.I haven't removed anything. I'm afraid to since I'm on the roof, :biggrin2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Dang, you're right! There's going to be a 1 1/2" gap from the top plate to the rafters on the side walls. Does this go all the way to the roof? Or we'll get into that later?
> 
> 
> Pug: The bracing is all there.I haven't removed anything. I'm afraid to since I'm on the roof, :biggrin2:


 No, the top plate fits to the rafter and is nailed up to it.


Most of the bracing stays up until the sheeting is holding it square.


----------



## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Off thread. But is your handle from MST3k Avalanche movie?
bg


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

yardmullet said:


> Off thread. But is your handle from MST3k Avalanche movie?
> bg



Me or Neil or...?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Not me...........


----------



## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

GrapeApe said:


> Me or Neil or...?





GrapeApe


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

yardmullet said:


> GrapeApe


haha! I had to look that up. i used to love Mystery Science Theater! I never saw the Avalanche episode though. My viewing times were when I was pretty young though. 

Whereabouts are you from, yardmullet?


----------



## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Ala but currently in TN.
I began watching years agto but stopped for a while. The first 2 seasons were quaint not compelling. Became aware of Cinematic Titanic, then relaunch Season 11-12. Which is better as far as riffing.


So your handle didn't com from Avalanch? It was the first time i've heard it, but I need closed captions to hear the dialogue.


bg


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

TV show from the 70's.
The Great Grape Ape.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

yardmullet said:


> Ala but currently in TN.
> I began watching years agto but stopped for a while. The first 2 seasons were quaint not compelling. Became aware of Cinematic Titanic, then relaunch Season 11-12. Which is better as far as riffing.
> 
> 
> ...



Alabama? Man, some of my best friends are from Alabama! Small world! 
Yeah, there was a show a long time ago that ran in syndication for a while on our local channels about a big dumb ape that happened to be purple named Grape Ape.


----------



## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

GrapeApe said:


> Alabama? Man, some of my best friends are from Alabama! Small world!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Hey look at 2nd pic in 2nd collage. The dinosaurs, it captures how big this stuff feels a few months in.
bg


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Just wanted to post a little update. I've got both side walls up, but I'm working on a fence that blew down so i've got a 6' gate and fence to put up, then I'll be back at it. Never had such a downpour of rain in our area since i've lived here as we've had this year either. 

Softening the ground and growing big fat peaches is fine, but it's also blowing trees down and fence posts like toothpicks. Nothing for them to hold on to when there's so much soggy mud in the top 5 feet of dirt! 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you guys know so you didn't think it all collapsed on me and I died or anything


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Guess what guys? I'm back! I got the roof on and it's waterproof! Here's a pic of the progress while it was going up.

*YES *- I know it looks like the roof line is higher on the right than on the left, but that's a visual trick of the reflection in the flashing on the left side. If you're standing there looking at it it looks perfect, and it measures up perfect. 











Neal, my ol' buddy and ol' pal! If you're still around, what do you think is next? Is it outside sheathing? Please let it be outside sheathing!


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

We can't believe it if there's no pic, ha...


The Friends pic is nice though.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Guess what guys? I'm back! I got the roof on and it's waterproof! Here's a pic of the progress while it was going up.
> 
> *YES *- I know it looks like the roof line is higher on the right than on the left, but that's a visual trick of the reflection in the flashing on the left side. If you're standing there looking at it it looks perfect, and it measures up perfect.
> 
> ...


 OK, I will call off the search party,:biggrin2:. It has been a while so you want to check the corners and make sure everything is still as plumb as it was. 

Double check window and door measurement, the door top is measured from the sub floor the sill there can be cut out. 

You had said you were just doing siding and not the sub sheeting is that still the plan? I think you should sheet it first.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> OK, I will call off the search party,:biggrin2:. It has been a while so you want to check the corners and make sure everything is still as plumb as it was.
> 
> Double check window and door measurement, the door top is measured from the sub floor the sill there can be cut out.
> 
> You had said you were just doing siding and not the sub sheeting is that still the plan? I think you should sheet it first.



If you think I should sheet it then let's sheet that puppy! What kind should i pick up? Just normal plywood or some kind of insulation foam stuff?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> If you think I should sheet it then let's sheet that puppy! What kind should i pick up? Just normal plywood or some kind of insulation foam stuff?


7/16" osb or construction grade plywood 1/2" :wink2:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 7/16" osb or construction grade plywood 1/2" :wink2:



I've still got 2 sheets of 1/2" plywood so that works out great! I'm starting in the black, haha! 

So I just cover the entire outside in plywood now, right? Do I go down to the botom of the beams or just to the sill plate or just to the subfloor bottom? 

And going up, do I just go all the way to the rafters? Between them on the front/back? 

On the windows, do i just cut out the spot the window hole goes through or should it be bigger or smaller because of the window um...border bits? 

So exciting! I'm going to need to get the electric and ac run too or it'll get hotter than a 2 dollar pistol in there haha!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I've still got 2 sheets of 1/2" plywood so that works out great! I'm starting in the black, haha!
> 
> So I just cover the entire outside in plywood now, right? Do I go down to the botom of the beams or just to the sill plate or just to the subfloor bottom?
> 
> ...


 If the framing for the windows and doors are the 1/2" bigger than like they should be then you cut the sheeting to match the hole in the rough.
Lay the sheets on the sides. And start at the end you did the lay out from the upper sheets can start anywhere else 2 studs or more away from the first 

I would put 2 nails in the beam 1/2" from the bottom so you can set the sheet on the nails. The siding will go a little lower and that creates a good drip edge. 

The front you will want to do it from the top down so you can use the scaffolding. You can just go up to the rafters,


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

One more thing, do the plyboards go sideways or long side up? Some sites say all long side up, some say lay them down sideways, and some say long side up in the corners, then lay the rest down sideways! 

It's all very confusing. :vs_whistle:


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> One more thing, do the plyboards go sideways or long side up? Some sites say all long side up, some say lay them down sideways, and some say long side up in the corners, then lay the rest down sideways!
> 
> It's all very confusing. :vs_whistle:



Long ways up so you have somewhere to nail them.


Also, if I had water leaking past my siding, I would want the edges of the boards vertical so that it didn't soak into the edge of of the board like it would do if horizontal.


That's all I got.....


Wait, there's more,,,,in nature trees grow up and down...that's it, done, you need no more....


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> Long ways up so you have somewhere to nail them.
> 
> 
> Also, if I had water leaking past my siding, I would want the edges of the boards vertical so that it didn't soak into the edge of of the board like it would do if horizontal.
> ...


I have never seen them stood up on any house and the walls here are more than eight feet so it make no different except staggering them laying down makes the building stronger.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I have never seen them stood up on any house and the walls here are more than eight feet so it make no different except staggering them laying down makes the building stronger.





For a shed, even if it's true that sideways is stronger, the sheathing can go either way. It will be strong enough. My garage hasn't fell over yet. Don't want to find out how it stands up against a twister though.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I gotta fix my lean first. I got out there and measured and it's leaning toward the front about 1/2". I tried using the board trick like before but wasn't strong enough to pull it that far so i'll use a come-along tomorrow and get 'er squared away. 

Do either of you guys know what kind of router bit I can use on the window/door holes? I saw a guy do it once where you just stick a router on there and BZZZRRRT! All four sides are cut flush and perfect. 
I have a Skill router and it just collects dust most of the time (inhereted it) so if I can get it working on this that's sure make the window cuts easier.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I gotta fix my lean first. I got out there and measured and it's leaning toward the front about 1/2". I tried using the board trick like before but wasn't strong enough to pull it that far so i'll use a come-along tomorrow and get 'er squared away.
> 
> Do either of you guys know what kind of router bit I can use on the window/door holes? I saw a guy do it once where you just stick a router on there and BZZZRRRT! All four sides are cut flush and perfect.
> I have a Skill router and it just collects dust most of the time (inhereted it) so if I can get it working on this that's sure make the window cuts easier.


 Just the windows and doors with the re cip saw from the inside. The sawdust coming off a router will give a nice shower. 

For the router you would use one with the bearing on the outside end, that rides on the 2x4 on the inside. 



Glad you found the lean, hope you can get it back.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Just the windows and doors with the re cip saw from the inside. The sawdust coming off a router will give a nice shower.
> 
> For the router you would use one with the bearing on the outside end, that rides on the 2x4 on the inside.
> 
> ...




That router though, Oh My Gosh! It's the best thing since sliced bread. I used it to cut the corners that overhung after I stuck them up there. Sure, it rains sawdust on you, but the cut is so perfect and fast that it's amazing to see!

I went through three bits learning how to work it too. That was $52.00 (ouch) but I finally settled on a 3 toothed bit with the bearing on it. My router's only 1 1/3 hp and 1/4" bit shank so I just let it pull itself along. Still goes pretty fast. 



I still wasn't able to pull the lean out, in fact I pulled my fence post up and had to re-bury it, haha! This thing got sturdy after the roof and walls went up! 

I did go ahead and put the sheathing on the back wall. If I have to pull it off it's not a big deal since it's all big sheets and half sheets on a straight line. 

It hold two sheets to get me up to the blocking between the rafters. Should I run it up to the rafters themselves? Like, to the tip-top and touching the rafters? 

If so i'll have to cut strips about 6" wide and put 'em in up there. 

Is this 1/2" lean to the front corner going to break me? If so, how would i go about pulling it out? The only thing I can think about now is hooking it on my truck and yanking on it.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That router though, Oh My Gosh! It's the best thing since sliced bread. I used it to cut the corners that overhung after I stuck them up there. Sure, it rains sawdust on you, but the cut is so perfect and fast that it's amazing to see!
> 
> I went through three bits learning how to work it too. That was $52.00 (ouch) but I finally settled on a 3 toothed bit with the bearing on it. My router's only 1 1/3 hp and 1/4" bit shank so I just let it pull itself along. Still goes pretty fast.
> 
> ...


 Did you let other braces loose to allow it to move? 

Did you try the hammer down 2x6 trick you used before.
If you can't get it I have seen worse and I won't tell anyone.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Did you let other braces loose to allow it to move?
> 
> Did you try the hammer down 2x6 trick you used before.
> If you can't get it I have seen worse and I won't tell anyone.


Nice catch! When I was pulling on it with the 2x4 I did NOT release the braces, so that might have added to my trouble. But when I got the come-along on it I did. It only moved about 1/8th of an inch though. 

My windows/door are still within the 1/2" tolerance so they should still fit OK, but I'm kinda disappointed that it moved at all while i was building my fence. The ground around here was soaked for the first 3 months while I was building then it all dried up for this month so bad that it's cracking 3/4" cracks all around. I guess it had to be settling from all the weather.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Nice catch! When I was pulling on it with the 2x4 I did NOT release the braces, so that might have added to my trouble. But when I got the come-along on it I did. It only moved about 1/8th of an inch though.
> 
> My windows/door are still within the 1/2" tolerance so they should still fit OK, but I'm kinda disappointed that it moved at all while i was building my fence. The ground around here was soaked for the first 3 months while I was building then it all dried up for this month so bad that it's cracking 3/4" cracks all around. I guess it had to be settling from all the weather.


If you have plywood on the sides you will not be moving it, if it moved 1/8 while it was braced, you were just bending the brace making it shorter with a curve in it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> If you have plywood on the sides you will not be moving it, if it moved 1/8 while it was braced, you were just bending the brace making it shorter with a curve in it.



no, it moved about 1/8" with it un-braced. I couldn't move it at all with it braced.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> no, it moved about 1/8" with it un-braced. I couldn't move it at all with it braced.


 I have moved houses more than that with the sheeting on but you tried now just live with it. Is it the side you see from the house, it is the vertical siding and any window.
It might be the corners are tighter the way the side wall is framed with the shed angle. I can't say I every tried to move that kind of wall.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I have moved houses more than that with the sheeting on but you tried now just live with it. Is it the side you see from the house, it is the vertical siding and any window.
> It might be the corners are tighter the way the side wall is framed with the shed angle. I can't say I every tried to move that kind of wall.


You always make me feel like I can be better, Neal. 

I think I'm going to pull those sheeting bits off the back and put a jack under the beam where it sunk and see if I can lift it a bit. If I can, maybe I can set a water hose on a slow drip and run some dirt under it and get it back to good. 

I came up with this plan at about 11pm last night exhausted, but it sounded good. If you can think of why it wouldn't work then I won't do it, but I couldn't get it moving with a board or the fence and a come-along. I'm all for trying more stuff though, if you think I can do it. (we have the technology!)

It's leaning to the left front corner when facing the office. The part you see most is the left side wall, but it looks straight and good from the side.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> You always make me feel like I can be better, Neal.
> 
> I think I'm going to pull those sheeting bits off the back and put a jack under the beam where it sunk and see if I can lift it a bit. If I can, maybe I can set a water hose on a slow drip and run some dirt under it and get it back to good.
> 
> ...


So you are thinking lifting the concrete up?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So you are thinking lifting the concrete up?


Yes, that's the only thing I can think of that happened since the lean is only toward that corner that has the big cracks in the dirt. 

Remember we had rain almost three times a week since March then most of July we had 100 degree temps and no rain. My guess is that it settled in that corner. If i lift it back up a tiny bit I think I can run water under there and flow dirt back under it, then lower it on the dirt. 

What do you think?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Yes, that's the only thing I can think of that happened since the lean is only toward that corner that has the big cracks in the dirt.
> 
> Remember we had rain almost three times a week since March then most of July we had 100 degree temps and no rain. My guess is that it settled in that corner. If i lift it back up a tiny bit I think I can run water under there and flow dirt back under it, then lower it on the dirt.
> 
> What do you think?


Dig down around it tell you get just about to the bottom, then jack up the shed to level and then dig down under the concrete 7 or 8 inches and pour a bigger footing under it. You want to get to the bottom of the bad soil.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Dig down around it tell you get just about to the bottom, then jack up the shed to level and then dig down under the concrete 7 or 8 inches and pour a bigger footing under it. You want to get to the bottom of the bad soil.



Digging started. i only have to go down about 3 feet so I should finish today. Then I'll jack it up to straight with the car jack. Actually, i'll have it on the jack before going underneat it or things are going to get real intersting, haha! 

Then I'll mix up concrete and fill at least a 7" footing under the existing concrete foot. 
Then I'll leave it like that for 48 hours so the concrete can dry. 

Then I'll lower the jack and hope it all stands up right. Does that sound right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Digging started. i only have to go down about 3 feet so I should finish today. Then I'll jack it up to straight with the car jack. Actually, i'll have it on the jack before going underneat it or things are going to get real intersting, haha!
> 
> Then I'll mix up concrete and fill at least a 7" footing under the existing concrete foot.
> Then I'll leave it like that for 48 hours so the concrete can dry.
> ...


 If the dirt will stay up on the far side a bigger foot print will help it spread the load better and may not sink the next time. Suction will want to hold it down so you may have to get down beside it before it will lift. 



Do you have any good luck at all?:biggrin2:


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

As Neal mentioned, dig out first and then if it's still softy when you jab at it, keep going deeper or you've just wasted your time.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@GrapeApe
Hello, do we need a search party or are you stuck in that hole.:biggrin2:
How did you make out with that?


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> @GrapeApe
> Hello, do we need a search party or are you stuck in that hole.:biggrin2:
> How did you make out with that?



Poorly! But you probably figured that since you started a search party, haha! 

Well, I got it dug and jacked up. Everything was going great until the jack slipped in the clay while i was under it with the shovel. It crashed down on the shovel (thank goodness) and not on me, but it did yank the shovel down which threw me forward and down, cracking my back. 
I thought for sure I was done for. I wasn't able to get out of bed for three weeks, and that was with pain killers. 

But winter waits for no man, so I had to hire some mexicans to come in and finish the job. They got the pad put in and even though I didn't tell them to, they put most of the plywood on for me too (sheathing). I'm back outside now and "tested" myself by mowing and running a weedeater. I made it through that without much more than some stiffness so I'm going to try to get back to work on it tomorrow. Stay tuned!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Sorry to hear that. Hope you continue on the mend.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Sorry to hear that. Hope you continue on the mend.



Thanks Neal. My wife wants me to quit altogether and hire it out from here, but I know if I do I'll regret it forever. I've got too much sweat in this so far to let it go to someone else if there's anyway I can help it. 

I don't really know, but in my head it seems like I'm over the halfway point by now so it should be all downhill from here, right?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

With a house from the foundation we would get it ready for roofers with doors and windows in, in about 2 weeks. another 6 to 8 weeks to have it finished and on the market. But that included landscaping and driveways and such.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> With a house from the foundation we would get it ready for roofers with doors and windows in, in about 2 weeks. another 6 to 8 weeks to have it finished and on the market. But that included landscaping and driveways and such.


So I should be done in the next 6 weeks! No problem! :surprise:


Are the windows and doors next after the sheathing goes up? If so, i need to get to buying them. Those things are crazy expensive.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> So I should be done in the next 6 weeks! No problem! :surprise:
> 
> 
> Are the windows and doors next after the sheathing goes up? If so, i need to get to buying them. Those things are crazy expensive.



Yes and there are installation instruction for those.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes and there are installation instruction for those.


Awesome! I'm sure i'll bungle that up real good, haha! I just watched This old house where Tom (the carpenter) talked about using 30 lb tar paper as flashing to help make sure the windows are weatherproofed. I think it made good sense. Do you know about that way of doing it?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Awesome! I'm sure i'll bungle that up real good, haha! I just watched This old house where Tom (the carpenter) talked about using 30 lb tar paper as flashing to help make sure the windows are weatherproofed. I think it made good sense. Do you know about that way of doing it?


 It is something like this for the windows


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

I forgot to ask, but it's OK to remove the scaffolding after I get the sheathing up on the front at the top, right? I can't sheath the middle of the front without taking it out.


----------



## William Becker (Sep 5, 2019)

You are looking for building your house there is several constructor on internet.You should search them and contact there is in low cost and good constructor available.You can contact them, they reach your destination within time.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I forgot to ask, but it's OK to remove the scaffolding after I get the sheathing up on the front at the top, right? I can't sheath the middle of the front without taking it out.


You may want to do your soffits before you take it down.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You may want to do your soffits before you take it down.


Good idea. Do I just lay thin plywood over the soffit area?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Good idea. Do I just lay thin plywood over the soffit area?


You want venting front and back.





It would be nice to put the siding up top before you took that down but you would need the door in first and the scaffolding is likely ion the way of getting the door in.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

How thick should the plywood be in there? 1/2" again?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> How thick should the plywood be in there? 1/2" again?


 Paint grade 1/2" is what I would be looking for and paint it while you are up there. Do you have jig for cutting plywood straight. 

Next would be windows, see the next post. Tomorrow maybe. 
:biggrin2:


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

1. measure the depth of the window from the flange to the inside.
add a 1x? yellow that will be just inside the window, 

1 A. house wrap up to the bottom of the window or just a 10 inch strip so later the paper can go behind it. 



2 blueskin 8" longer than the window is wide. stick it the face of the building and then cut is at the sides of the window and carefully roll it in so if fits the deck and then rolls up on the face of the 1x? cut of any access above the 1x?


3 .Narrow strips 2" that will stretch in the corners


4. 3" piece wraps the corner, make sure water can not get in there anywhere. 



5 wrap the rest of the corner with house wrap, it can wrap all the way in and trim it latter after the window is sealed inside.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Paint grade 1/2" is what I would be looking for and paint it while you are up there. Do you have jig for cutting plywood straight.
> 
> Next would be windows, see the next post. Tomorrow maybe.
> :biggrin2:


I have a table saw I was going to use to try to make it straight. My windows are 3 weeks out because they build them when you pay for them.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> I have a table saw I was going to use to try to make it straight. My windows are 3 weeks out because they build them when you pay for them.


 You should have a cross cut jig for cutting the 4 ft way and the angle on top so you can measure what you need for that top angle, some where around 60 inches I would guess.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

That blueskin stuff goes all the way around the house? It's 270.00 for a 100' roll.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> That blueskin stuff goes all the way around the house? It's 270.00 for a 100' roll.


No, windows and doors, what size roll are you looking at.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> No, windows and doors, what size roll are you looking at.


48"x100'


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> 48"x100'


 Who said you need that?
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/bakor-blueskin-weather-barrier-6-inch/1000403475


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

visual aids...........


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks Pugsey! That's got me on the right track. Do I need the Lowes paper too afterward? 

Neal: The 48x100 made sense when I thought it was supposd to cover the whole house


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Thanks Pugsey! That's got me on the right track. Do I need the Lowes paper too afterward?
> 
> Neal: The 48x100 made sense when I thought it was supposd to cover the whole house


You will need a roll of house wrap, paper, what ever you call it.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You will need a roll of house wrap, paper, what ever you call it.



Ok, but hey! What are you doing up this early in the morning (or late at night???) You better get some rest, amigo!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, but hey! What are you doing up this early in the morning (or late at night???) You better get some rest, amigo!


It's noon somewhere.:biggrin2:


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

The house wrap can only go on one way.
Everything overlaps like shingles.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Windows are ordered. It'll be four weeks before they're in. so cold weather.... 
Eaves are caulked in the corners and painted, mostly. I have one side left to paint. That wood is thirsty!

Vents are installed! Next I'll put the Tyvek on and when the windows get in I'll cut the window holes and get them installed. I can't wait to get windows in! Thank goodness it's still 90 degrees outside so I've got comfortable working weather, and not 40 degrees, haha!

I'll update when the tyvek is on and again when the windows are in.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Windows are ordered. It'll be four weeks before they're in. so cold weather....
> Eaves are caulked in the corners and painted, mostly. I have one side left to paint. That wood is thirsty!
> 
> Vents are installed! Next I'll put the Tyvek on and when the windows get in I'll cut the window holes and get them installed. I can't wait to get windows in! Thank goodness it's still 90 degrees outside so I've got comfortable working weather, and not 40 degrees, haha!
> ...


 Don't cheat the window install follow the instructions I posted earlier. :wink2:
You could be installing air chutes from the back to the front in every bay, you just hand staple them to the inside of the roof sheeting. 

Do you have a plan for the electrical yet? 



https://www.homedepot.ca/product/durovent-22-inch-x-4-ft-rafter-vent-10-pack-/1000136854


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

GrapeApe said:


> That wood is thirsty!



This makes me nervous.....after a good coat of primer, the wood usually kicks the drinking habit.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Don't cheat the window install follow the instructions I posted earlier. :wink2:
> You could be installing air chutes from the back to the front in every bay, you just hand staple them to the inside of the roof sheeting.
> 
> Do you have a plan for the electrical yet?
> ...


I'll be very particular on the windows. I've seen a lot of "This Old house" where Tommy tears out rotting walls because someone didn't put a sill pan on the window with that stretchy rubber stuff. I'll 100% follow the instructions, boss! 

The electrical is going to be surprisingly easy because my neighbor is a licensed electrician that did installs for 40 some odd years. He saw me building and said, "When you're ready to do electric, gimme a call". I've only got a run of about 30 feet from the panel, thank goodness. 



123pugsy said:


> This makes me nervous.....after a good coat of primer, the wood usually kicks the drinking habit.


Primer? What's that? :vs_whistle:
The primer paint is what it's sucking up like a cow at the trough. It's crazy. I'm putting down Valspar primer and Behr paint that matches the house eaves.


----------



## shirawilson (Aug 31, 2018)

Thanks for the tricks and points you have shared in this conversation. It might help me in the future.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey Neal? Can I go ahead and run wires while i'm waiting on the doors/windows to get in? They'll still be another few weeks and it's going to get down to the 60s for a high this week, gettin skeerd it's going to get cold on me.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Hey Neal? Can I go ahead and run wires while i'm waiting on the doors/windows to get in? They'll still be another few weeks and it's going to get down to the 60s for a high this week, gettin skeerd it's going to get cold on me.


Yes, I thought you were doing that already.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes, I thought you were doing that already.



No, I don't do anything until I clear it with you. I learned my lesson! 

For the rafters above, do I just run the electrical wires through them for the lights just like I would the wall studs? Will that mess up my insulation?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Drill holes in the center of the rafter and you can split insulation so some in front and some behind the wire, You can put in the air chutes too.


----------



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Drill holes in the center of the rafter and you can split insulation so some in front and some behind the wire, You can put in the air chutes too.





Air chutes?
Without an attic?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> Air chutes?
> Without an attic?


It still need venting so you run the chute for the whole way. Or use less insulation.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Air chutes like this?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Air chutes like this?


yes...


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, I don't like staples though. I'm going to use 3" screws to really hold them in there!


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, I don't like staples though. I'm going to use 3" screws to really hold them in there!


That will work for Christmas, you can just set the glass bulbs upside down on the screws. Red:devil3::devil3: would be nice.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> That will work for Christmas, you can just set the glass bulbs upside down on the screws. Red:devil3::devil3: would be nice.



Bwahahaha! I laughed out loud at that one! Ya got me :vs_laugh:


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Stuck again. air chutes aren't a problem, but electric is expensive. I just ordered the inside Safe&Sound insulation ($800) so I gotta wait a week on the electric. 

Is there something else i can add on? Siding stuff maybe? Windows won't be here for another couple of weeks. Door won't be here until I order it then 2 weeks after that. It's $3000 so um...ouch...


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Stuck again. air chutes aren't a problem, but electric is expensive. I just ordered the inside Safe&Sound insulation ($800) so I gotta wait a week on the electric.
> 
> Is there something else i can add on? Siding stuff maybe? Windows won't be here for another couple of weeks. Door won't be here until I order it then 2 weeks after that. It's $3000 so um...ouch...


We can talk about siding and maybe you could get started on the back and sides.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> We can talk about siding and maybe you could get started on the back and sides.


Ok! Let's do that. On the back wall and the north side all I have is the window to deal with when it comes in. 

1. What should I go with first, and should I do vinyl siding or would wood be better? 

2. Do I put up foam boards first and nail through all of it? 

3. And finally, what brand and type of siding should I go with, assuming it's not wood?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Any thing solid like plywood or cement boards there should be space behind it and I think you would find vinyl as cheap and easy as anything else, with a learning curve of coarse. You can do all vinyl or add wood trim or even use more wood trim to make it look more like real siding. But all vinyl has little upkeep besides cleaning it every 2 or 3 years,
With 1" of foam board you can just use longer nails for the vinyl.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Any thing solid like plywood or cement boards there should be space behind it and I think you would find vinyl as cheap and easy as anything else, with a learning curve of coarse. You can do all vinyl or add wood trim or even use more wood trim to make it look more like real siding. But all vinyl has little upkeep besides cleaning it every 2 or 3 years,
> With 1" of foam board you can just use longer nails for the vinyl.


Ok, so my wall will be studs, then plywood, then house wrap barrier, then 1" foam board, then siding. Is that right? 
What brand is good?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, so my wall will be studs, then plywood, then house wrap barrier, then 1" foam board, then siding. Is that right?
> What brand is good?


 So you may want to add 1" wood around the window and door openings before you ready the openings. I am not sure you might want the wrap over the foam. Water can and will get passed any siding I think you want the wrap there to deal with that. 

While I think about it the nails will be galvanized roofing nails because some will go into treated wood at the bottom.


Any that I have done has been bought be others but I never saw a difference from one and another. I would look at price first.


----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So you may want to add 1" wood around the window and door openings before you ready the openings. I am not sure you might want the wrap over the foam. Water can and will get passed any siding I think you want the wrap there to deal with that.
> 
> While I think about it the nails will be galvanized roofing nails because some will go into treated wood at the bottom.
> 
> ...


Ok, so 1" foam goes down then house wrap, then siding with galvanized roofing nails. 1 1/2" nails or should i got with 2 or more so they hold deeper?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

GrapeApe said:


> Ok, so 1" foam goes down then house wrap, then siding with galvanized roofing nails. 1 1/2" nails or should i got with 2 or more so they hold deeper?


You don't put the nails in tight so 1 1/2 might be a little short. The siding kind of hangs from loose nails so it can move with heat and cold.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## GrapeApe (Nov 13, 2012)

haha! i just watched that guy an hour ago to prep! Thanks!


----------

