# Can I test my sewer system for leaks myself?



## noone (May 4, 2011)

I still have this strange problem. It's a funny smell in a small pool bath. It doesn't smell like the other bathrooms that have no odor. But it doesn't necessarily smell like a sewer smell which I guess would smell like poop, but then again it does smell like poop some times..... But it doesn't smell right. It is very hard to locate the source of the smell. You walk into the bathroom you just get this "it's just not right" smell. When I stick my nose directly in the sink drain pipe (the vanity is pulled off from the wall so I have access to it), it does NOT have the same smell.

I thought it may be a water leak somewhere, but usually I would notice those types of things because it would be a mildew type smell, which I don't think this is. Plus, I have access to the other sides of the drywall adjacent to this bathroom and usually you could smell the leak and would be able to press the soft drywall.

Could it be a cracked vent? If it was a clogged vent, would that be more obvious? Would I hear gurgling and draining problems with a clogged vent? (everything drains nice and fast, no sounds).

Or could it be a sewer leak in the slab?

How can I test for a sewer leak and vent leak myself?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Sinks and bathtubs/showers have a "trap" which is a U shaped pipe under the drain. This always has water in it and that keeps the odors from the sewer from entering the room...

But you said "pool bath" which I would take to be a bathroom by a pool. Which might not be used very much. Or may have a shower which has not been used for a long time... And in that case the water from the traps may have evaporated and odors from the sewer can now enter the room!

So just run a little water in each sink, bathtub/shower, and flush toilet every so ofter to keep water in the traps. And if washing machine, run a little water in that drain as well. Here is a graphic of a trap...


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Leaking wax ring under the toilet comes to mind also.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Yeah, i'm way past these basics, but thanks!

p-traps are all filled. Shower has been used a few days ago, I ran it again just to be sure.

It's a new toilet that I have reseated twice now. First time with the Kohler ring that came with it, next time (yesterday) with an Oatey 10-year ring from Home Depot.

Can I go up on the roof and plug all 4 vents and then open the flapper in a toilet and let water in and then test to see if the level drops? What size cap do I need to get? It's a PVC vent. I think 2 1/2 or 3 inch, didn't measure when I was in the attic, but i'm sure you guys know what the standard is. Not sure if it could be the vent, because in my attic, I had drilled a hole next to it in the same cavity and I sniffed and sniffed and could not smell the same smell as in the bathroom. So I would think if the vent was leaking in the wall, I would smell it out through that hole.

It really seems like it is coming up from the slab in the bathroom, unfortunately, which is why I want to test for leaks before calling in a plumber. If someone could tell me how to do a static test on my own, that would be greatly appreciated.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

noone said:


> It really seems like it is coming up from the slab in the bathroom...


It's camera time.

hth


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Are you saying we are moving out of DIY territory here? I thought I could do a smoke bomb testing or static testing myself. I lost the article. Would appreciate any input you have. Thanks!


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Are you saying we are moving out of DIY territory here? I thought I could do a smoke bomb testing or static testing myself. I lost the article. Would appreciate any input you have. Thanks!


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

noone said:


> Are you saying we are moving out of DIY territory here? I thought I could do a smoke bomb testing...


My comment is about the problem being below concrete.

The assumption (on my part) is that there is a broken pipe or fitting that needs to be located and rather exactly... regardless of what a smoke test might also show.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

If the ground work and stacks are pvc i personally wouldnt suggest dropping a smoke grenade in there,just saying! :whistling2::laughing:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

plummen said:


> If the ground work and stacks are pvc i personally wouldnt suggest dropping a smoke grenade in there,just saying! :whistling2::laughing:


Where can I buy a smoke bomb? How do I do this?


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

plummen said:


> If the ground work and stacks are pvc i personally wouldnt suggest dropping a smoke grenade in there,just saying! :whistling2::laughing:


Just reread your post. I don't think professional plumbers drop smoke bombs in your sewer lines. I think they use some kind of smoke generator, basically a lit smoke bomb in a can and then push the smoke through the system with a blower of some sort. Or they use tiny cameras to run through the lines.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

noone said:


> Just reread your post. I don't think professional plumbers drop smoke bombs in your sewer lines. I think they use some kind of smoke generator, basically a lit smoke bomb in a can and then push the smoke through the system with a blower of some sort. Or they use tiny cameras to run through the lines.


Google smoke testing. Basically, you put a special smoke bomb in a shop vac and force the smoke into the pipe. You can buy the kit or DIY your own.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

noone said:


> Just reread your post. I don't think professional plumbers drop smoke bombs in your sewer lines. I think they use some kind of smoke generator, basically a lit smoke bomb in a can and then push the smoke through the system with a blower of some sort. Or they use tiny cameras to run through the lines.


Last time I looked I had more than 1 piece of paper that said licensed master plumber,but thanks for clearing that up for me! :thumbsup:
But youll notice I said I wouldnt reccomend doing this right? :laughing:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

plummen said:


> Last time I looked I had more than 1 piece of paper that said licensed master plumber,but thanks for clearing that up for me! :thumbsup:
> But youll notice I said I wouldnt reccomend doing this right? :laughing:


Thanks. Apologies if I offended you, that wasn't the intent. 

Can any of you licensed plumbers tell me what type of service I should expect to find the source of the smell? I like the idea of them using a camera to find it, since that is obviously equipment I don't own and thus a procedure I can't do myself. 

Thanks again.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

If it started after your remodel id start with the fixtures that were changed/modified during the remodel.
Any glued fittings that might have been missed while plumbing,did you strip the walls/floors out during the remodel?
Could you be smelling glue or something that was used in the remodel?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Assuming you have only a couple fixtures- you could cap their connection points and cap/plug the building drain. Then fill the system with water from the roof vent. Sort of labor intensive but it would show any above ground leaks, maybe a slab leak too.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

TheEplumber said:


> Assuming you have only a couple fixtures- you could cap their connection points and cap/plug the building drain. Then fill the system with water from the roof vent. Sort of labor intensive but it would show any above ground leaks, maybe a slab leak too.


The problem with that would be isolating from building drain


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Inflatable sewer pipeline stopper...


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

plummen said:


> If it started after your remodel id start with the fixtures that were changed/modified during the remodel.
> Any glued fittings that might have been missed while plumbing,did you strip the walls/floors out during the remodel?
> Could you be smelling glue or something that was used in the remodel?


Original floors, original 1996 plumbing. I changed out the supply valves for the sink, changed the light fixture and tiled that wall you see with mastic, new toilet, and painted. It used to smell like fresh paint. Now it smells damp and funny smelling. 

Again what's weird is that I can stick my nose right up to the sink drain and not smell the funk that seems to be permeating the airspace in this bathroom. 

I'd be happy with a glue smell, believe me. Something is really wrong in here. 
I'm so stumped.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

noone said:


> Again what's weird is that I can stick my nose right up to the sink drain and not smell the funk that seems to be permeating the airspace in this bathroom.


The trap water... is trapping the funk from coming up from funkytown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CImrIKNmBo



> Something is really wrong in here.


And you seem to have eliminated the toilet flange as the problem...
leaving *something else* below grade which is percolating it's way up 
(presumably right through the concrete).

It's camera time.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

TarheelTerp said:


> The trap water... is trapping the funk from coming up from funkytown.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CImrIKNmBo
> 
> 
> ...


When I said sink drain, I meant the pipe coming directly out of the wall. Same thing yesterday when I had my nose down the toilet drain. Maybe what I'm smelling is sewer water leaking in ground. The tiles all feel dry and when I stick my nose right at the tile, I don't smell anything. On the adjacent master bedroom that shares the same wall, I dont smell anything. And the concrete directly under the sink drain in the wall is definitely dry(i had removed the baseboard there to install the vanity). That's why this whole thing is so weird and unexplainable! So frustrating!


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

I think the OP is referring to a smoke test similar to automotive vacuum leak testing. There you can visually see the leaks when the smoke starts seeping of of a leak. However, I would think that being all the DWV is hidden in walls and floors that you would never see any smoke. 

I would love for the OP to experiment with this and let us know what he finds out.

B


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> Inflatable sewer pipeline stopper...


Yeah thats fine,but he needs an open 3-4" pipe down stream from the problem bathroom to isolate it.
Then somebody has to pull the cork afterwards! :laughing:


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## fa_f3_20 (Dec 30, 2011)

Are your supply lines in the slab? I wonder if you've got a supply line under the slab leaking. Try a couple of things:

1. Walk around the outside of the building and see if you see any water coming out from under the slab anywhere.

2. Shut off all of the water-using fixtures and appliances on your property. Then watch the meter for a while and see if it moves. 

Also, is your pool equipment also in this building? What you're smelling might be pool water leaking somewhere.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

I don't have a pool even though we have a pool bath. It's basically a 1/2 bath with a small shower and a door leading to the outside. 

I will check the meter but I'm thinking I would have noticed a leak/slab leak inside the house. 

Just called Roto-rooter out. "free" initial estimates. I wonder how this is going to turn out. They said the smell could be the beginnings of a sewer line clog. Is this true info? Everything flushes and drains fast and easy. No gurgling sounds whatsoever.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

"Call roto-rooter thats the name,watch your wallet go down the drain"
Yeah those guys scare me! :whistling2::laughing:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

The other plumber I called was $95/hour + $5 gas charge + cost of parts. Since we don't even know what the problem here is, I figured I'd get the free initial estimate from Rooter and go from there.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Is it by chance a tile shower?

Edit : good luck getting an initial estimate without someone touching something. I'd pay 95 bucks just for a pro's opinion before taking free advice from dodo looter.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Alan said:


> Is it by chance a tile shower?


Yes. But the shower was not remodeled. It's existing tile from 1996.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

noone said:


> Yes. But the shower was not remodeled. It's existing tile from 1996.



I'd bet dollars to donuts that your grout sealant has failed, water has gotten into the pan liner, and turned septic. That's what you're smelling. Septic shower water smells worse than a bucket of fresh turds.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Alan said:


> I'd bet dollars to donuts that your grout sealant has failed, water has gotten into the pan liner, and turned septic. That's what you're smelling. Septic shower water smells worse than a bucket of fresh turds.


I considered that, but I think I would smell it if I stuck my nose near the floor tile? It doesn't. The shower area is the best smelling area of the bathroom! When I step in it and close the door (with the shower off), it smells great.


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## Deck (Apr 25, 2008)

cracked sewer line? do you have s traps? i mean something with a curve downward where there really is no way for air to get in so the pressure causes it to suck a lot of water out of the trap. they were in use once but are not now because they cause sewage gas to leak sometimes. look at the first picture to the right of the wikipedia article about traps. it's like an S turned sideways

also if you have a wet vent which i haven't seen but googling it just now means the vent you have may double as sewage line for something higher up. or what if your vent is clogged like from a squirrel or something?
if you go up to a vent and someone else flushes the toilet you may hear it at the top of the vent if you have your ear by it. at least i do with mine. i was working on the roof and someone flushed the toilet and i heard wooosh.. subdued but i heard it.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

So the Roto Rooter guy came by and said he doesn't think I have an issue and to blow out the area with a box fan to the outside. He said that sewer gasses from the toilet ring change have lingered and that they can continue to linger for a long time and just need to be blown out.

Sounds like a bunch of hot (and stinky) air to me.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Can I take a hose and let it run in the vent to see if it clogs up? Will that hurt anything?


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Take it up on the roof and do it


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

So, this may sound way off base but the idea occurred to me today when talking about one of our jobs with a bad small-- Have you thought about something crawling into your wall and dying?  Just a thought... you seem at wits end and I thought I'd throw it out there


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

was called out on fri for a bad smell by l.t water heater, furnace....searched all over could not find a thing ..it did smell bad....got my camera from the truck....found dead chipmunk in wall..... man did he stink....


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

ben's plumbing said:


> was called out on fri for a bad smell by l.t water heater, furnace....searched all over could not find a thing ..it did smell bad....got my camera from the truck....found dead chipmunk in wall..... man did he stink....


I was changing out an 80 gal WH. in a small mech rm. Something stunk! figured it was a failed trap primer and dry trap. Pulled the heater out and found a dead bird in the corner of the room. Must have come down the flue


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

noone said:


> So the Roto Rooter guy came by and said he doesn't think I have an issue and to blow out the area with a box fan to the outside. He said that sewer gasses from the toilet ring change have lingered and that they can continue to linger for a long time and just need to be blown out.
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of hot (and stinky) air to me.


 
You called Roto Rooter? :laughing:  :no:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Update -

I cleaned the entire bathroom, top to bottom and made it spotless. I even wiped clean the outside of the new toilet with Lysol wipes.

The odor seemed to go away, but by morning it was back. I can only call it a very light sewer smell, combined with the smell of new paint, toilet, and vanity and wall tile smell. It's a strange smell because you notice it when you first go in the bathroom, but then after being in it a few seconds you don't notice it. So you only notice it when you first enter from normal atmosphere to polluted atmosphere.

My wife said that she smelled the same thing at first when my parents remodeled a half bath, a smell that eventually went away. (she wants to just leave it alone and see if it will go away)

Could it be the toilet that is smelling? Could the toilet be venting up sewer gas at a very slow rate? It's really hard to pinpoint, but it does seem to be coming from the toilet area. The wax ring is solid (this is the second new ring), and it doesn't leak. 

I have a 1 1/2 inch hole about 4 inches away (used for running cables for the master bedroom tv) from the header where the vent pipe exits the header in the attic. When I stick my nose in the hole and take a big whiff, I don't smell anything at all indicative of a vent leak. Since the wall in this particular bathroom is also shared by my master bedroom, and there is no smell at all in the master, I am tending to lean toward it not being a vent leak. If the vent pipe was leaking, I would think that I would smell it in that hole that is in the header, or the whole attic would stink, which it doesn't.

So this leaves the toilet. My far fetched theory at this point is that the toilet itself mixing with the water in the bowl is creating a strange smell or the toilet itself is venting gas slowly.

Tonight I am going to uninstall the toilet and take it to another room and then wrap the toilet drain with saran wrap and see if it stinks again tomorrow morning. Will wrapping it in saran wrap real well keep the stink in? Any other ideas? I am sure I could go buy a plumbing balloon from somewhere (need to find a plumbing supply house), but i'm thinking saran wrap should work well as I'm hoping the stink won't come through the plastic.

Is this totally insane? Thoughts?


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

noone said:


> Update -
> 
> I cleaned the entire bathroom, top to bottom and made it spotless. I even wiped clean the outside of the new toilet with Lysol wipes.
> 
> ...


The sewer gas shouldn't build up that much pressure. We stuff towels down there when doing remodels. If you really are worried about sealing it up all the way, the best way is an internal test plug.


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## Deck (Apr 25, 2008)

Also did you investigate any of the ideas we suggested, like maybe you have an s-trap and/or your vent is clogged and as a result a small amount of water is being siphoned causing a little bit of sewer gas to leak back into the room. Also might be related, when water heaters start to go bad what happens is apparently the water can give off hydrogen sulfide gas, which stinks. I read that somewhere and I don't remember where. I'm not a plumber so maybe someone can back me up on that. Why don't you just tape up the drain in the shower and the sink hermetically. For the sink you'll also need to tape the overflow holes.
Also... mold? I still like that idea of the rancid shower pan.. When I did some demo a long time ago I saw a lot of hidden mold in a bathroom (big surprise, right?).


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Deck said:


> Also... mold? I still like that idea of the rancid shower pan.. When I did some demo a long time ago I saw a lot of hidden mold in a bathroom (big surprise, right?).



I would like to see pictures of the shower, and also know when the last time grout sealant was put on it.


:yes:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

First off- Thanks for the continued responses.

First, I really don't think its the shower pan. If I stick my nose right on the tile floor of the shower and sniff really hard, there is no smell at all. If I close myself into this tiny shower and close the door, I don't smell anything either, whereas outside the shower I do.

And its definitely not a dead animal in the wall. I know what those smell like and this is definitely not it.

---------------------------------------------

With that said I have an interesting development to now share-

I put saran wrap across the bowl last night, sealing it off.

As of this mornings bathroom sniffing, i'm not entirely sure, but I believe the odor is all but gone. 

So does this mean a clogged or partially clogged vent pipe would do this? I just don't see how that gas can reverse itself through the water in the bowl, but this is apparently what is happening. I also don't see the level of the toilet dropping either.  In fact, I can flush the toilet (this is "Class 5" Kohler flusher), and it powerfully flushes the water right out without issue even with the saran wrap on the bowl. Which really makes me question if my vent is really clogged since everything flushes and drains so well.

My last test to be absolutely sure, is to completely remove the toilet and install it in my formal living room as a new piece of retro furniture. I will then tape and saran wrap the toilet drain and see what smells turn up.

This weekend I will stick a hose down the top of the stack on the roof and turn it on and see what happens.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Well, if the toilet was set properly you should get no odors from where the wax seal is. If the toilet is full of water you won't get any odors from the bowl either because the water is sealing the sewer gases out.

If what you did fixed it, perhaps it's sulfur in the water, or maybe nobody has flushed the toilet in a while after using it. 

:huh:


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## panache70 (Nov 4, 2016)

I have been searching the internet and finally read this thread which is similar to the problem I am experiencing. Small service bathroom on main floor (sink and toilet only). Faint gas smell, seems to disappear after standing in the room for 15-20 seconds. Can't pinpoint the where the smell is coming from. Even the handheld gas detectors only show a faint presence of gas in the room, but the smell is quite noticeable when you come in from the adjoining room. Tried changing the toilet, cleaning the sink with vinegar and baking soda, wiping down the floors and walls with bleach... no luck. I saw that this thread ended just before the op was going to remove the toilet and block the drain pipe. I think the op is still active here... but I cannot message him directly as I am new to the forum. Was there ever a resolution to this problem?? I would love to know... I really do not want to have to spend hundreds on a plumber for a smoke test. Thanks.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

The cause of my issue, and I'm embarrassed to say, was that the pool door to the outside had a 1/8" gap between the door and door threshold that was letting in the marsh gassy air at night. I live on the marshy area of the inter coastal waterway. Once I fixed that, the problem disappeared.


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## panache70 (Nov 4, 2016)

Thanks, guess I am no further ahead. I hate the idea of having to bust all my walls open to find this gas problem, especially since there is no water leak anywhere. Makes me think I am leading down the wrong trail. It's been a full week since we changed the toilet (this was my first attempt to solve the problem). Seemed fine after the plumber left but the next morning the gas smell was back. I thought maybe the gas lingers for a while so I put a portable fan in there for a whole 24 hours with the door open (the room is tiny: sink, toilet, small storage area... 40 square feet max. Anyway, thought I was right, but a few hours after I removed the fan the smell came back. This has been going on for almost a month now (I have ruled out a dead animal in the wall, I assume the smell would go away after a month??). I tried all the different cleaning tips for the sink, toilet, walls and floor... still comes back. I tried saran wrap over the ceiling fan (don't know why, thought maybe a bad smell from the attic was coming in through the fan), that did nothing. I tried blocking the sink (drain and overflow), the smell continued... Main vent does not seemed blocked, as this problem is only in this particular room, and there is no gurgling sounds from the sink or toilet when water goes down the drains. I can't believe there is a cracked pipe in the wall or drain, there is no evidence of a water leak at all. Any suggestions would be welcome, but I have a feeling the very expensive smoke test will be the only way to go at this point... Not even sure how I would see smoke if the pipe is in the wall...


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

I have a suggestion send some other person up on the roof to dump 2 bottles of Ammonia down the vent.

You use your sniffer...


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

What kind of smell exactly? Sewer or natural gas or dying animal? 

Do your have NG in your house? If so, have you thought about turning off the gas to the house during a warm week for a day or so? (if there's a notable branch in the area with a shutoff, use that first.) 

Cheers!


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

the smell could be coming from another location and concentrating itself in that particular area, couple questions how many floors, was the bathroom an add one or was it part of the original plan, and have you in the last year done any type of remodeling any ware in the house any new alarms electrical anything or roof work ?


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