# Flickering Lights and Fan Sound through the entire house



## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

Maybe a grounding issue, bad switch or loose neutral wire in your electrical panel somewhere. Only thing I can recommend is get an electrician out there to check it out. I wouldn't go tightening things on your own in an electrical panel, bad things can happen.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

that light, is that on a dimmer ?


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

This is something a typical homeowner can't solve and the power company is not allowed to intervene.
Did the power company guy tell you to call a licensed electrician?
Regardless, you need one. 
An inspection will zero on the problem, which sounds like in the panel.
How old is the panel and what's the AMP marked on the main?


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

That light is on a dimmer. However there are other lights in the house which are not on a dimmer and they also flicker. Also as I mentioned the fan will make a certain noise, like a buzz at the same time that the panel is buzzing.
This is a 200 amp service and it was updated 15 years ago. The neutral was checked as part of the test that the power company did with their meter. My electric panel does not have a ground wire coming into it. It has ground bar, but there’s no wire that goes outside to the ground. There is a ground wire however that goes to the meter box and that goes into the ground


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

JoeMat said:


> That light is on a dimmer. However there are other lights in the house which are not on a dimmer and they also flicker. Also as I mentioned the fan will make a certain noise, like a buzz at the same time that the panel is buzzing.


ok, well, i will just say that i used to have that exact same sound come from bulbs that were on a dimmer.
i'm not saying that is your problem. just say'n


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

What are these wires and why are they there? The left big wire with the white tape is your neutral and the screw in the lug looks suspiciously dark.

There is not supposed to be any wires doubled up in that location, with that type of lug, and especially that small of wire. If those big wires are from your meter, they are not fused at all.


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## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

I VERY highly suspect the dimmer that is associated with this light. Basically cheap dimmers use a design called a chopper circuit, and it will return nasty harmonics back in the electrical system. I suspect one you isolate this dimmer, turn it off, replace with better, or eliminate it, your issues will resolve. 

I work with industrial speed control systems like this but they have proper filters so these nasty noises are not returned back to the line. 

Start switching breakers and playing the elimination game and I am sure you will find your culprit. 

Here is a sweet tech tip, if all those bulbs in your fixture are LED, switch one to incandescent and see what happens!


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your help. I agree that the dimmers seem to be the issue however even in circuits where the dimmer is not installed or the dimmer is not even on, I still have flickering. I can hear this buzzing sound in the microwave, in my ceiling fans, and in a fluorescent bulb fixture in my garage. And I’m pretty sure I hear it at the meter box, even when I disconnect the main breaker. Those small wires that are connected to the main wires are a whole house surge protector. I almost feel like there’s an issue with the transformer outside or something like that. I have tried shutting off circuits and there’s not one circuit that kills the noise. It’s random. It does seem however when I turn off all the circuits the noise goes away. I turn all the circuits back on and the noise doesn’t come back until it does


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> What are these wires and why are they there? The left big wire with the white tape is your neutral and the screw in the lug looks suspiciously dark.
> 
> There is not supposed to be any wires doubled up in that location, with that type of lug, and especially that small of wire. If those big wires are from your meter, they are not fused at all.
> 
> ...


Yes these are coming directly from the meter. The small 12 gauge wire is going to a surge protector. I’m waiting for an electrician to come out to check on the tightness of those main lugs, but the wires don’t seem to be loose I have pulled and tugGed and they not budging.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

viper said:


> I VERY highly suspect the dimmer that is associated with this light. Basically cheap dimmers use a design called a chopper circuit, and it will return nasty harmonics back in the electrical system. I suspect one you isolate this dimmer, turn it off, replace with better, or eliminate it, your issues will resolve.
> 
> I work with industrial speed control systems like this but they have proper filters so these nasty noises are not returned back to the line.
> 
> ...


Next time I hear the buzzing, I will make sure that all the lights are turned off in the house. I will also flip the main breaker off to see if the buzzing is still happening at the meter can. I almost feel like the noise is coming down from the power company, but I don’t know if that makes any sense or not.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

It’s started buzzing again this morning. Here is a video of the same sound at the meter...https://youtu.be/Sb2OmB9mQTE


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

JoeMat said:


> Yes these are coming directly from the meter. The small 12 gauge wire is going to a surge protector. I’m waiting for an electrician to come out to check on the tightness of those main lugs, but the wires don’t seem to be loose I have pulled and tugGed and they not budging.


Good idea to wait on the electrician. They will have the proper tools, experience and skills needed to find your problem. It may be something simple. An electrician has trouble shooting knowledge to find these type of issues. Hope you get it figured out and fixed soon joe.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

did you try disconnecting that surge protector ?


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## cruelsun (Jul 6, 2019)

Certainly an electrician is the right strategy here, but with an intermittent problem any data you can gather during the occurrence may be helpful. 
if you are sure this occurs with your main breaker off, it would stand to reason that this is a grid/feed problem. 
Your whole house surge protector is connected before the main breaker, on the feed from the meter pan. So the main breaker does not eliminate the surge protector as a potential problem. If you can get an ear close to that device, see if the sound is louder coming from it. If the electrician does not experience the problem firsthand, I would have them disconnect that surge protector or wire it to two dedicated breakers in the panel after the main breaker so that it is eliminated by opening the main.
If you have good relations with your neighbors off the same pole / transformer / feed, I would check and see if their meter makes the same sound at the same time that yours does. And if you can get close enough to the pole / transformer see if maybe you can hear it, even though the camera may not pick it up from a distance..

Good luck, this is an interesting problem, Please continue to update.

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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Thanks everyone. Interesting problem indeed. Here are some other tidbits of information. My meter is digital but an older one that says progress energy, who was bought out by Duke energy. Both my neighbors have new Duke energy meters and one of there meters is making the noise just like mine, but she is not aware of any flickering in her house. So I’m wondering if maybe a newer meter would filter out the noise? Or there’s a bigger issue that I need to get Duke energy back out here to look at.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Fix'n it said:


> did you try disconnecting that surge protector ?


I did not because it’s hardwired into the main wires and I don’t have a way to shut the power down to those wires without pulling the meter. I could always cut the wire in the panel and then just wire nut it I guess. But with other homes next-door having that same buzz at their meter, it’s making me think there is a bigger issue


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

Fix'n it said:


> did you try disconnecting that surge protector ?


It would have been easy to disconnect and eliminate as a problem had it been installed correctly in the first place.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

where is this protector, in the meter ? if your neighbor has it sounds like a supply problem, transformer perhaps. i wonder if someone in the neighborhood is doing something, welding(?) that could feedback down the lines.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

The protector is in the main panel, not meter. I agree that if other neighbors are having that buzz, it’s probably something on the line. But I feel like talking to Duke energy customer service is not going to get me very far. They came out and did a load test. I feel like they need to do some sort of other test like a frequency test or or I don’t know what. I guess all I can do is report that both my neighbor and I have noise at our meters


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

JoeMat said:


> The protector is in the main panel, not meter. I agree that if other neighbors are having that buzz, it’s probably something on the line. But I feel like talking to Duke energy customer service is not going to get me very far. They came out and did a load test. I feel like they need to do some sort of other test like a frequency test or or I don’t know what. I guess all I can do is report that both my neighbor and I have noise at our meters


Yes, I agree, you, your neighbors and a certified electrician as well. His statement, recommendation and conclusion will help your case in dealing with the corporate empires.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Just wanted to update the group. I still don’t have any resolution. The electrician was tied up and did not make it out here on schedule. I called Duke energy again and they are escalating the issue to another person who is supposed to come out and check the line, fuses and etc. 

I’m keeping a journal of when the flickering starts. For the last two days the flickering has occurred around 7:50 in the morning and goes on for a couple hours and then dies off. This is around the same time that the sun comes up. I am convinced that my neighbor three doors down who has solar panels is perhaps backfeeding dirty power or some other explanation into the grid. Next week there is a time change, and so if the time of the flickering follows the new adjusted time, then I think I’m onto something. Thoughts?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i think you could be on to something


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

That is good deductive reasoning linking your issue first to the time and then sun up. Well done. 

I'm really curious about the neighbor's solar system potentially causing enough of a disturbance to cause a problem in other services on the street. If that does turn out to be the case I hope you are privy to some of the technical details of this problem.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

JoeMat said:


> The protector is in the main panel, not meter. I agree that if other neighbors are having that buzz, it’s probably something on the line. But I feel like talking to Duke energy customer service is not going to get me very far. They came out and did a load test. I feel like they need to do some sort of other test like a frequency test or or I don’t know what. I guess all I can do is report that both my neighbor and I have noise at our meters


like fix in said.
that may be it! years ago i had a neighbor that came over and asked if i had that issue. we were on the end of the line and 4 homes on the x-former. when i was welding he said he could tell as his light did some flickering. we had the power company out and they changed out the x-former because they found the kva was not enough for the power we were all using.
so you may be having the same issue


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## stoneburner (Nov 7, 2019)

Please keep us updated JoeMat. I'm curious as to what is causing this, too.


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## cruelsun (Jul 6, 2019)

I troubleshot a network problem in a customer's residence as a cable TV technician a few years back. Their solar installer had used an ethernet-to-powerline adapter to connect the solar panel system to the home network/internet. The focus of my trouble call was the fact that their home network was causing them to lose internet service, so I was not involved with the electrical problem but if I remember correctly they were complaining of other weird things with their electric at the same time. Again, IIRC I left them with a note for their solar company to run an actual Ethernet line to the router instead of using the power line adapter. Never heard from that customer again, so I'm guessing that was the fix.

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## jackplmb (Feb 5, 2020)

Had a very similar situation several years ago. Not the extent of the flickering lights but the noise from the breaker panel. One day the local power utility was working a couple of poles away. Asked them what was up and they indicated the transformer was bad and were replacing it. That solved the problem in my place.


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## jackplmb (Feb 5, 2020)

I would do a voltage check on both legs while the situation is active.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

I have checked both legs when the situation occurs it’s 121 V to neutral regardless if the buzzing is there or not. I would like to test the number of hrtz when the situation occurs. I bet you it’s all over the place, but I don’t have a meter that can do that. At the moment just waiting to hear back from Dukeenergy. I hope that they can help me soon. It does not seem to affect my electronics, or they are at least handling it very well, but I try not to use them during this situation. I Wonder if they have filters inside of them to protect from fluctuating power? List of things that I can now hear the noise include the meter can outside, the panel, my fluorescent light in the garage, most of the ceiling fans in my house, and I noticed the toaster making that same noise while toasting my bagel this morning. Onion bagel!


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## jackplmb (Feb 5, 2020)

JoeMat said:


> I have checked both legs when the situation occurs it’s 121 V to neutral regardless if the buzzing is there or not. I would like to test the number of hrtz when the situation occurs. I bet you it’s all over the place, but I don’t have a meter that can do that. At the moment just waiting to hear back from Dukeenergy. I hope that they can help me soon. It does not seem to affect my electronics, or they are at least handling it very well, but I try not to use them during this situation. I Wonder if they have filters inside of them to protect from fluctuating power? List of things that I can now hear the noise include the meter can outside, the panel, my fluorescent light in the garage, most of the ceiling fans in my house, and I noticed the toaster making that same noise while toasting my bagel this morning. Onion bagel!


interesting option ! I did not check voltage or hz. But you make an interesting observation. Most electronics today utilize 'switching power supplies' that handle a wide range of voltages AND frequencies (hertz). The items you list as hearing the noise are all 'analog, so to speak. Not certain what that may point to, but worth looking into. I now have a device that will read Hz as well as current etc. that would the trick. Kill A Watt. I would need to go back and re-read the whole thread, but from memory, the surge-supressor and neighbor solar installation come to mind as possible culprits.


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## jackplmb (Feb 5, 2020)

jackplmb said:


> interesting option ! I did not check voltage or hz. But you make an interesting observation. Most electronics today utilize 'switching power supplies' that handle a wide range of voltages AND frequencies (hertz). The items you list as hearing the noise are all 'analog, so to speak. Not certain what that may point to, but worth looking into. I now have a device that will read Hz as well as current etc. that would the trick. Kill A Watt. I would need to go back and re-read the whole thread, but from memory, the surge-supressor and neighbor solar installation come to mind as possible culprits.


p.s. I love onion bagels !


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## JustA_dude (Mar 1, 2017)

JoeMat said:


> I have checked both legs when the situation occurs it’s 121 V to neutral regardless if the buzzing is there or not. I would like to test the number of hrtz when the situation occurs. I bet you it’s all over the place, but I don’t have a meter that can do that. At the moment just waiting to hear back from Dukeenergy. I hope that they can help me soon. It does not seem to affect my electronics, or they are at least handling it very well, but I try not to use them during this situation. I Wonder if they have filters inside of them to protect from fluctuating power? List of things that I can now hear the noise include the meter can outside, the panel, my fluorescent light in the garage, most of the ceiling fans in my house, and I noticed the toaster making that same noise while toasting my bagel this morning. Onion bagel!


I would try to expedite your electric supplier (Dukeenergy) to have their tech to come by as soon as possible.
Second post did indicate that it could be a problem with neutral wire. AND THAT WHAT I HAD this past June while having pretty much same "symptoms" as you are having (flickering, etc...) 
In nutshell: I had flickering in my house in one of my rooms for quite some time. One nice Sunday morning this June of this ""uneventful"" year 2020 I woke and smelled burnt plastic. Ran downstairs , saw extension cord with surge protector melted as source of that nasty smell. Few minutes later wife told me that coffee machine won't work. Then when she turned toaster on, refrigerator stopped working. When toaster stopped refrigerator "came back".... and so on... 
I called BGE and they actually came out same evening (even though it was Sunday). Technician did some troubleshooting and after about 30 min turned power OFF and explained that there is a problem with neutral wire coming from/to the house. He called his dispatch and they had a crew of subs fixing that problem till 5 am Monday morning.
Bottom line: i had damaged appliances for about 1 grand, but i think i am lucky; later I found out that similar problem (bad neutral wire and consequently short circuit) caused friend of friend of friend's house burn down.
From the "logic standpoint": if all your appliances are having "buzzing", clearly - PROBLEM is external. 
It would've been "internal" if just 1 or 2 would be having these symptoms. Expensive electronics most likely have internal stabilizers, but from my experience - when there is a voltage surge , control boards get fried easily, ....and you won't even know it until some later time... Call your Dukeenergy! You need someone like 5 minutes ago!


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Duke energy came back out today. I explain to him the situation and he found it very strange. He did not have the tools he needed to do further Troubleshooting. So he re-cut/connected the wires on the roof and then did another load test. He said that he wasn’t able to get up to the 500 A that he thought he should on one of the legs so he is calling in a ticket to have someone else reconnected wire on the pole. I explained several times that my neighbor has the same buzz. When the electricity was off, I checked the connections in my main and they were very tight. I then loosen them removed the surge protector wires and then retighten them back down. I guess we shall see what happens.


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## mark_kershner (Mar 11, 2017)

Glad to hear the progress. I would not touch any ground rod or wire or connection until this issue is resolved. Sounds like utility ground (aka neutral) could be compromised. Or could be back feed from someone in the area. Thanks for the updates. 


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

Well... it IS Halloween...


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Duke energy came back again today, this time they redid the connection on the pole. I got to say I am impressed with the speed that they move. Probably to protect themselves, but still they move fast. Unfortunately that has not corrected the issue. The next thing they’re going to do is put a meter on my system, like a EKG. It will measure voltages, harmonics etc. for a couple days. They are supposed to come back tomorrow with that equipment


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

Yeah, line crews tend to eliminate the easy, obvious stuff first. Sometimes several times.....  

At least things seem to be moving forward.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

joe-nwt said:


> Yeah, line crews tend to eliminate the easy, obvious stuff first. Sometimes several times.....
> 
> At least things seem to be moving forward.


start with the basics


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

So this week after the time change the buzzing and flickering started at 6:48 instead of 7:48. Duke Energy installed the monitor today and will come back Thursday.


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## mark_kershner (Mar 11, 2017)

Thank you for updating this thread. Many people will benefit from the resolution. 


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

Hey everyone. I haven’t posted an update in a while because I’m still having the issue. Duke Energy has remade the connection on both my house and the poor and the issue still occurs. They believe it has something to do with a corroded neutral line. I don’t know that I agree with that because like I said earlier the issue happens every single day at the same time. Why would a corroded neutral line do that? Anyway they’re sending the guys back out to look at it again.


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## JoeMat (Oct 25, 2020)

I think the problem has been solved. The meter was replaced outside and since then no more flickering, no more buzzing, no more weird noises. Still waiting to hear back from Duke energy if there was something else that maybe they did, but I don’t think so because the day prior to them replacing the meter I recall the lights flickering.


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

Finally, glad it's solved.  thanks for the update Joe.


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