# Slip sliding away. The transmission that is.



## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't know much about modern auto transmissions, but could it be something electrical, like a sensor?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

You obviously know what to do.

Check the fluid first, if low re-fill.

Of course Check it when warmed up in drive at idle.

If low this could be connected to the other problem, (vacuum leak), remember I said if the modulator is bad it is sucking fluid into the engine, Won't suck much at any given time, but a little at a time adds up.

And if it needs a rebuild , I still think that it's worth the expense.


ED


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

de-nagorg said:


> If low this could be connected to the other problem, (vacuum leak), remember I said if the modulator is bad it is sucking fluid


This is sort of what I meant, but don't know enough to explain. The newer transmissions don't have vacuum modulators. It's electronically controlled.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> If low this could be connected to the other problem, (vacuum leak), remember I said if the modulator is bad it is sucking fluid into the engine, Won't suck much at any given time, but a little at a time adds up.
> 
> ED


Thanks for mentioning the modulator. I looked and looked for a part called a vacuum modulator for a Navigator or Expedition or an F-150. The last model that had this as a listed part was a 1997 F-150. The Nav/Expedition/F-150 were new in 1998 based on the same platform. If my Navigator has such a device it is either named something else or it is an electrical component, possibly a solenoid, inside the transmission (I suspect). If you know if this SUV has a vacuum modulator, please link to a part, because I couldn't find it anywhere.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I was going from my experience on vehicles from a long gone era.

So If the newer ones are electronic controlled , forget that I kept pushing the device.

Still Check the fluid level, and if low refill it.

And look for a leak somewhere, like a seal at the torque converter, or the rear seal, or any gaskets, etc. 

But I still think that fixing the transmission is better than junking the thing. 

Remember every used car will have a few things that needs more attention than it got before, or it would still be in the previous owners yard.

Even a gifted one from a relative.


ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Check the fluid level when the vehicle it at normal operating temp. Low fluid will cause this. What color is the fluid? Nice and red is good. Dark red is ok but needs changed. Brown is bad. Black is toast. You can service it but when this happens, it is a symptom of a tranny going out. If you flush it, you risk tranny death. But if it continues you know it's gone so I would flush it if the fluid is red. It's a gamble when you flush a tranny that hasn't been serviced properly. It usually kills it. But I have woke a few up. If it does crap out on you, just get a good low mileage one and stick in there. I use LKQ. I hardy build them anymore as a good used one hasn't had any problems that can carry over and it's a lot faster on the turn around.:vs_cool:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

If it is just a one time slip and the fluid is okay looking, I have had good luck with the BG full flush and clean. 

My issues were more related to a solenoid that was hanging up because of some of the waxes that had accumulated. 

I good long hot drive with the cleaner it it and then complete fluid exchange and flush and its running like new again. 

270K and counting.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I will drive to Harbor Freight (about five miles) at lunch because I need funnels anyway (kid's think they make cute hats for the dog, dog disagrees and chews them up). When I get there, I will check the fluid and maybe even shoot a vid of the dipstick so you can see the color. I found my Lucas AT treatment in the basement. Can't even remember why I bought it, exactly. I will pour it in, then drive on the interstate while going back to the office.

Tranny shifts seem sluggish and slightly delayed when cold. I have a remote starter so this morning I stuck my fob out the door, started the car and let it warm up for ten minutes. Seemed to help. I will get the fluid changed one way or the other. My Christmas gift to myself, a tranny fluid change.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> My Christmas gift to myself, a tranny fluid change.


Your Christmas gift to the dog, a new set of chew toys.


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## clarenceboddick (Nov 30, 2016)

Change your filter if possible (some like Honda use internal filters and fluid with solvent to keep junk suspended) and use a quality (not the name brands) synthetic fluid like Red Line. You might want to flush it with cheap fluid before switching to a quality synthetic fluid.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> I will drive to Harbor Freight (about five miles) at lunch


Did you make it to Harbor Fright?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I started to leave at lunch and remembered our office Christmas party so I didn't get to HF until the afternoon. Found out why my tranny was slipping. 2 QUARTS low. Now, this pisses me off, because I had an oil change and they told me all my fluids were good. Seems adding fluid also cured my "dying every time I put it in reverse" issues. All shifts now are rock solid. Tach doesn't move or hunt. I might have added a pint too much. It is red up in the "do not add" area, but not above it.

Video below.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

2 quarts, I would be wondering where it is going.

Something else to check on , until you find that it is not using it or leaking.

Could someone before you owned it have had a transmission fluid and filter service at a recommended mileage?

And not gotten enough in?

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

No leaks. Not a drop. It is going to be mid-60s today, so I might put it on ramps and check for fluid. My brother owned the car. He had some tranny work down in 2010, corroded lines and a solenoid bad. He gave me the invoice. Cost him 2 G's. I will check levels again, cold and hot, and it is overfilled I have a suction pump and long hose, so I will suck some out of the fill tube, if needed. When I drove it after adding fluid, shifts were very positive and decisive. When I parked, I put it in R, D, 2, 1 and the tach didn't move at all.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Now you need to figure out where its going. Check the torque converter cover and the rear output shaft seal. 

If you start loosing fluid, you can burn that thing up in a heartbeat. They are very sensitive to proper fluid levels.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Have you gotten under it and looked at the bottom and sides of the transmission for any wet area's?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Tranny was repaired in 2011, Replace all the corroded tranny lines, range sensor, tube and bushings, New drain plug, flush and fill. This was a 47K. Mileage now 71K. Actually, the tranny part was $1100. He had other stuff done too.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I would be inspecting all the fittings, and lines again, If the lines were corroded then, chances are that they have corroded some again, You only got this a few months ago, and it was around the north east for a lot longer than it has been with you.

I have seen the system get a tiny little hole in the cooler itself and leak into the radiator, you will have a sheen on the top of the Anti-freeze that is not normal if this is happening.

I have seen the fittings into the radiator tank become stripped out (they are plastic tanks now), and leak. 

And as we said, check the torque converter seal, as well as the rear seal, and all pan gaskets and other places.

I even saw where the lines were rubbing together that caused a pinhole.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Never would have put the dying in reverse thing down to low tranny fluid, but that sure solved it. It did need an IAC valve, though.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I did a Youtube PSA on this in the event someone else encounters this dying in reverse problem and can't figure out why. I know I looked all over Youtube. Maybe this will help somebody out.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

clarenceboddick said:


> Change your filter if possible (some like Honda use internal filters and fluid with solvent to keep junk suspended) and use a quality (not the name brands) synthetic fluid like Red Line. You might want to flush it with cheap fluid before switching to a quality synthetic fluid.


Beware- do not advise using "quality" fluids like Redline- marketing hype. 

This advice will cost one dearly if you own a Honda. There is no scientific evidence that Redline is a better choice that other brands.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Bigplanz said:


> 2000 Navigator. COLD today. 12 when I went out to go to work (made sure to bundle up the kids, hoodies and heavy coats, gloves, for that bus stop wait with mom).
> 
> Anyway, got in, started it, turned on the seat warmer (it works) and put it in D. Tach went up, car didn't move. Uh oh. Kind of tapped the gas again and it moved off sluggishly from the curb. About 30 seconds of driving and everything appeared normal. No shifting issues after that. Shifts smooth, etc.
> 
> Cold weather AT slips generally mean low fluid or worn clutches, bands, etc. I have some Lucas AT treatment somewhere in the garage. I will throw some of that in there. Tranny problems are beyond my ability to repair, so I might be bailing on this Navigator if the tranny is toast.


Planz, maybe consider a MT next time. No more AT woes.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

mt in a navigator?? manual transmission are becoming obsolete on most suv/pickups


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Not sure that is an option on a nav. Repair manual has a section for an mt, but it covers F-150 and expedition.

Been lucky though. I have never had any AT problems, ever. Except for a leaking cooling line on the Silhouette I had they have never given me a bit of trouble.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

carmusic said:


> manual transmission are becoming obsolete on most suv/pickups


It's sad.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Change the fluids on the newer ATs and they last a really long time. Better mileage when you figure some of the crazy numbers of gears they are putting in them.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

My AT is old school. 3 speed + OD.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Bigplanz said:


> My AT is old school. 3 speed + OD.


That's not old school.

2 speeds with reverse, now that's old school.

2 speeds HIGH AND LOW.

Late fifties , early sixties, Torqueflight. :devil3:

I remember them.

And if you have never had any Automatics die on you, you have been very lucky.

It usually happens due to improper maintenance, sometimes sheer stupidity though.

Had a customer bring one in with everything busted in it.

Seems that his " girlfriend" shifted it into reverse at 95 MPH. looking for a faster gear.

:surprise::surprise:. 


ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

carmusic said:


> mt in a navigator?? manual transmission are becoming obsolete on most suv/pickups


Then dont buy a Navigator. Why should one be roped in to any SUV just cuz they dont offer a MT. 
Yes, maybe difficult to find an SUV with an MT, but wouldnt say obsolete yet.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

r0ckstarr said:


> It's sad.


Agree. "I WILL GIVE UP MY MT WHEN THEY PRY MY COLD DEAD FINGERS FROM MY STICK SHIFT KNOB". 

Charlton Heston


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Windows on Wash said:


> Change the fluids on the newer ATs and they last a really long time. Better mileage when you figure some of the crazy numbers of gears they are putting in them.


Depends on how they figure/calculate "mileage". Shifting skills, driving habits/patterns all affect mileage.

ALSO, MILEAGE IS THE LAST THING iM CONCERNED WITH. (oOPS, SORRY FOR CAPS).

Reliability of a MT, and virtually no maintenence/fluid changes. Safer driving/handling for those who understand how to utilize an MT, of course. I agree, it's slowly dying out.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I have driven AT cars exclusively since 1975. Two speed, yeah that's old, old school. I had a turbohydamatic 400 in my 76 Camaro. That was bad ass. Never have had a single tranny problem. Had a leak in the silhouette, fixed it, never an issue. Had all sorts of issues over the decades, but never a tranny problem.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I've only ever driven Manual transmissions. Auto's are alien to me. I don't understand all of the unnecessary upshifting and downshifting that they do. 

I recently rented a car to go on a trip. The car was an auto, and it took me a little over 100 miles to finally get used to it. Every time I would hear it about to shift, it was natural for me to grab the shifter and send my left foot looking for a pedal that wasn't there. After around 150 miles, I realized that I wasn't in D. I was in Sport the whole time, lol. My gas mileage improved after that. :laughing:

It's very hard to find a new truck with a single cab and a manual transmission now. You're limited to 4cyl trucks if you want a manual.

One thing I learned from owning a stick shift, is that when it breaks, you can still drive it. I drove my Ranger for a couple months without a clutch until I had the time to fix it.

Over on the Crown Vic forums, it's a popular swap to put a Mustang manual transmission in the Crown Vic's / Mercury Marquis.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I saw a lady and the people she was with push start their truck the other day. Now THAT'S old school. Got it going though, and off they went.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

papereater said:


> Then dont buy a Navigator. Why should one be roped in to any SUV just cuz they dont offer a MT.
> Yes, maybe difficult to find an SUV with an MT, but wouldnt say obsolete yet.


try to find a full size 2016 suv with a MT, i dont find any except some jeep
all the suv i found with mt are small 4 cyl ones


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> I saw a lady and the people she was with push start their truck the other day. Now THAT'S old school. Got it going though, and off they went.


Another benefit of manual transmission. Especially when you come out of the grocery store and find out that your starter stopped working.



de-nagorg said:


> Seems that his " girlfriend" shifted it into reverse at 95 MPH. looking for a faster gear.
> :surprise::surprise:.


Years ago, I used to have a Suzuki Samurai. It was built from junkyard parts and backyard engineering. It had a 3.8 V6 out of an '81 Camaro, and the transmission was an Auto that came from a wrecked Grand National. The only way to get the shifter to fit, was to install it with the pattern upside down. Instead of Park being at the top, it was at the bottom. Reverse was next up, Neutral, and Drive on top.

I was cruising about 30mph and saw a friend. I decided to put it in neutral and rev up to get his attention. I accidentally went down into Reverse at the same time I stabbed the gas. The rear wheels instantly changed direction and started spinning backwards. It scared the crap out of me and twisted a yoke on the drive shaft.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

papereater said:


> Depends on how they figure/calculate "mileage". Shifting skills, driving habits/patterns all affect mileage.
> 
> ALSO, MILEAGE IS THE LAST THING iM CONCERNED WITH. (oOPS, SORRY FOR CAPS).
> 
> Reliability of a MT, and virtually no maintenence/fluid changes. Safer driving/handling for those who understand how to utilize an MT, of course. I agree, it's slowly dying out.


Obviously everything is dependent on driver. 

There is no replacement for mechanical advantage though. These aren't really "debatable" points. 

Ford has developed an 11 speed transmission and there are 8 speeds out there all over the place. More gears = more mechanical advantage to move the car and get it up to speed.

I have had stick cars most of my life an in the case of my one car, a deep 6th gear was great for lugging around on the highway at about 1,500 RPMs and getting great gas mileage. While the auto do have more parasitic power loss, they are getting more and more efficient and having another couple of gears to spread the acceleration curve over would lessen the ultimate RPMs used and save fuel. 

There are a myriad of on demand cylinder applications out there now that also work more effectively when the car can control the shifting and gear selections.

The last thing that will make the auto ultimately more efficient is mostly the human factor. Most people suck at driving manuals and...well...at driving in general.

I will concede that if you had a really good manual pilot vs. and auto with more gears, the difference would be minute. That said, playing the averages, the autos are big fuel savers. More expensive and more service hungry...yes as well.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

r0ckstarr said:


> Another benefit of manual transmission. Especially when you come out of the grocery store and find out that your starter stopped working.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That'll wake you up at the wheel.

Those Samuris were great little off road vehicles. Crazy when done up with some of the full suspension and axle modifications.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

carmusic said:


> try to find a full size 2016 suv with a MT, i dont find any except some jeep
> all the suv i found with mt are small 4 cyl ones


I hear you, I know, carmusic. Guess if one MUST have a full size, ya have to cater to whatever the industry offers on a plate. Me- I avoid big vehicles. And, SUV's- too dang dangerous. Guzzlers also. 1/3 of fatalities involve just one vehicle- SUV/p/u truck flip overs. casrs (sedans, etc) stay L_O_W to the ground.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Found my leak!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Can you tighten the fitting?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

r0ckstarr said:


> Can you tighten the fitting?


I have never had much luck with just tightening a tranny cooling line. They always still leak.

Since this is a RWD, the cooling lines are about 4 feet long, metal and snake around under the car. Not particularly difficult to replace, if you have a lift, which I don't. I don't even have a driveway. I have the street in front of my house. 

I had it checked out this morning. Guy at Goodyear said three transmission lines need to be replaced (corrosion at the fittings). They can't do it, so he recommended a Mr Transmission they send work to. Goodyear didn't charge me for taking a look at it on their lift, BTW.

Merry Christmas to me. Oh well. Maybe I'll try tightening it after all.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Didn't you say that "Jimmy", had these replaced once before?

What corrodes them so fast?

New England salt on the streets?

Good of GOODYEAR to look and not charge. 

You do need to have this leak stopped, before it causes a real expensive problem in the transmission.


ED


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

Are there o-rings that you can replace? My GM transmission had o-rings in the quick disconnects that wear out after a while.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> Didn't you say that "Jimmy", had these replaced once before?
> 
> What corrodes them so fast?
> 
> ...


I am assuming the car being in NYC for 16 years takes a toll. Brake caliper mounts were rusted solid. Guys at the oil change place had a struggle getting the skid plate off. Everything under the car (nuts/bolt heads) are rusted. I can get it looked at next week.

Goodyear by my house has been fair. I had to replace a steering knuckle on the villager once because the bearing was so bad the new bearing would fit right in the knuckle. Goodyear was ok with me bringing in a knuckle I got at a junkyard and just charged me labor to put it in.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

This is the part that is leaking.

http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/...line-assembly/836067_0_0_108610?checkfit=true


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

And now... this...

Flat tire, chuck out of the sidewall, plus dry rot. Another new tire for Christmas!!


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

I hope they just sell you one. Does it have a 2wd mode?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I got a new tire. That one was in bad shape. It is AWD, with 4WD hi and lo options.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

That's good, a lot of places will only sell you all four when it's AWD. Messes with the transfer case when they aren't the exact same height.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mort said:


> That's good, a lot of places will only sell you all four when it's AWD. Messes with the transfer case when they aren't the exact same height.


255 75 17 is the size. I have replaced the worst two (perelli's) already. Brand new wranglers @ $190 a pop. The other two look a lot better.


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