# Stairway ceiling style - opinions wanted.



## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

We're completely redoing our awful stairs in the house. We're going to have to adjust the ceiling at the bottom for head room and are having some debate as to which would look best.

Here's what we have at the bottom of the stairs (The new wood board going left to right across the new platform there will actually be on the bottom of the new stringers, so it'll be 7 1/4" higher than shown)








Alright onto the ceiling conundrum. 

We'll be doing a floor to ceiling square column/post as drawn in, and raising that angled knee wall up about 28" to match the new stairs sorta like this: 








Option 1 (see the three red lines in pic above) is to angle the ceiling from the wall with the light switch up at the same angle as the new knee wall (red line on drawn in wall)

This is a picture looking down the stairs (from before we tore it up)








Option 2 (blue line in pic above) would be to cut the ceiling at an angle "across" the bottom of the stairway.

Option 3 (red line in pic above) would be to just cut the ceiling straight across 3' higher.


Whatcha'll think? We are open to other options we didn't think of as well, including just taking out the entire section over the bottom of the stairs - it's a tiny bedroom closet that we don't need.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

I have a very similar stairwell in my house. We remodeled two years ago prior to moving in. I was able to modify mine at the top to create more room, but I see exactly what you are doing. Going straight across and eliminating the closet will look the best and be the most functional for moving stuff up and down the stairs.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Officially it won't be a bedroom if it has no closet (potential resale value).


I did not quite understand option 1. 2 I don't like.


IMO, 3 leaving a shortened closet with a full size door is what I would choose. In such a closet you could get away with using 2x4's for the elevated floor joists to slightly increase the height. I actually had a similar situation in a house where the basement stairs encroached on the entry hall closet and it was never a problem. That one was done at an angle but the truth is you can only hang something in the closet that is no longer than the highest point of the angle.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Alright cool, 2 votes for option 3 so far, thanks guys!

Option 1 is basically option 2 rotated 90 degrees... if that makes sense lol


It's alright if they don't count it as a bedroom anymore, not gonna sell the place. I'm actually kinda wanting to tear that entire bedroom out; it's literally 11 foot x 11 foot, so dumb. I've been tossing around turning it into an open balcony sitting area over the foyer there for a number of years.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Which way do the ceiling joist go?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Joists run "parallel" to the original stairs. 

We are planning to leave the 2nd story exterior rim joists intact on the two full height walls (basically the corner walls where our new platform is.) So we'll just be cutting the few short joists in the bottom of the closet upstairs. The bottom of the closet is 3 foot x 3 foot square. 

I think the interior side wall of the closet (the one prominent in pic 3 looking down the stairs) could be structural for the roof since it's running perpendicular to the joists, so I thought we might put a header in there above the new ceiling angle/line. I think we can technically cantilever that far, but I'd rather not risk it cause that'd be a quasi-free floating exterior corner. Exterior view, closet in question is in the left corner of the second story here:









Think we might have to "thicken" the upstairs wall on the "front" (above light switch wall & exterior front/white wall) to carry the mini platform structure inside the closet down? We could offset 2x6's from the roof line down and put in a header on the exterior wall as well, but I kinda wanted to keep the insulation there. I've considered putting a window in that particular exterior wall area before, to bring light into the stairs, but it's so narrow a space that I kinda decided I didn't think I could make it look right from the outside.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Joists run "parallel" to the original stairs.
> 
> We are planning to leave the 2nd story exterior rim joists intact on the two full height walls (basically the corner walls where our new platform is.) So we'll just be cutting the few short joists in the bottom of the closet upstairs. The bottom of the closet is 3 foot x 3 foot square.
> 
> ...


There is a beam (header ) there. How much head room did you have before and what size are the ceiling joists?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I hunted down exterior pics with less foliage:


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> There is a beam (header ) there. How much head room did you have before and what size are the ceiling joists?


Here's the original bottom of the stairs without the new platform:









The headroom under the closet was @ 8 foot originally, the rest of the stairway has 16+ foot ceilings. 

The new "floor" height at the bottom there (the tallest step that falls under the closet floor) is going to be at 28 inches. Gives us 5 foot 8 inch clearance over that step so it's gotta go. (Kid's 6' 4" heh)


The floor and rim joists are all 2x10.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Here's the original bottom of the stairs without the new platform:
> 
> View attachment 595565
> 
> ...


Measure head room by laying a 2x4 on the stairs and measure down from the end of the ceiling to the under side of the 2x4. It needs to be 80"


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> Measure head room by laying a 2x4 on the stairs and measure down from the end of the ceiling to the under side of the 2x4. It needs to be 80"


Ah yea, not gonna get away with leaving the ceiling intact. We're going up 28" beneath that closet floor, so the headroom from the tread of the new third step will be @ 68" - we're not even close


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Ah yea, not gonna get away with leaving the ceiling intact. We're going up 28" beneath that closet floor, so the headroom from the tread of the new third step will be @ 68" - we're not even close


 I went and did a quick read of the other thread you had on this. 

Did you do the proper math to get the new riser height or was that a guess or a hope?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> I went and did a quick read of the other thread you had on this.
> 
> Did you do the proper math to get the new riser height or was that a guess or a hope?


We did exact measurements and mathed it all out. We've got 7 1/4" risers and 11" treads with the top two risers ended up at 7"  It's absolutely glorious compared to the random spread of 9" to 10 1/4" risers we had originally. 








We're just about done with the in and out, back and forth, test fitting of our new template stringer seen in pic - but we ran outta charged batteries on the last cut for it last night around 9PM :vs_laugh: Husband's gotta work 9 hour days all this week, but we're hoping to get prep work done while he's home (cutting drywall, etc.) Then we'll get the new stringers in next Saturday.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Like this was absolutely ridiculous. I don't think a single measurement matched on the entire old flight:








Also had NO IDEA how slanted they were. They seriously messed up putting in or cutting the old stringers, maybe the house settled a bit too... End result was that the treads were a good half inch low on one side or the other - yes, randomly down the entire staircase :vs_mad:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Like this was absolutely ridiculous. I don't think a single measurement matched on the entire old flight:
> View attachment 595605
> 
> 
> Also had NO IDEA how slanted they were. They seriously messed up putting in or cutting the old stringers, maybe the house settled a bit too... End result was that the treads were a good half inch low on one side or the other - yes, randomly down the entire staircase :vs_mad:


 Usually the the run is 10" and when finished you put 11" treads on them .
That gives you one more riser in the same distance. A lower landing.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

With that much rise on the steps, it is a dangerous set of stairs, way out of code.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

BigJim said:


> With that much rise on the steps, it is a dangerous set of stairs, way out of code.


My knees started getting bad like 8 years ago so I slept on the couch downstairs for about 7 of them. Husband /finally/ realized how much I hate them and decided to get on redoing them :vs_laugh:


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> Usually the the run is 10" and when finished you put 11" treads on them .
> That gives you one more riser in the same distance. A lower landing.


We're doing laminate overlays so; 1/2 plywood + 1/4 thick riser overlay will put us 10 1/4" tread with a 1" bullnose / 11 1/4" finished tread. 

We did a mock up of different tread depths before we mathed everything out and none of us giant footed people here liked the 10" flat  (Aside from my husband I have the smallest feet and I wear a womans 10, youngest son wears 14s)


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> We're doing laminate overlays so; 1/2 plywood + 1/4 thick riser overlay will put us 10 1/4" tread with a 1" bullnose / 11 1/4" finished tread.
> 
> We did a mock up of different tread depths before we mathed everything out and none of us giant footed people here liked the 10" flat  (Aside from my husband I have the smallest feet and I wear a womans 10, youngest son wears 14s)



So how high is the first step after you finish it? 

I have never seen a set of house plans that would give us room to cut 11" runs, so I am sure all the big feet are quite used to walking up them.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

You've never seen a house that didn't have the length to put in 11" treads? That's crazy! Our house is actually kinda odd because the stairs happen to end at a wall. Most of the houses up here (that aren't split levels) have stairs that end inside an open entry foyer rather than at a wall. Maybe it's an insulation thing? Eh naw probs just a style thing ~shrug~


In any event, in our house, we had an extra 42" at the bottom of the stairs that we utilized. We have 2 steps at the bottom going one direction, then we turn 90* and have the 13 steps going up. The total run of the stairs from the 90* turn is just under 12 foot with our 11" treads. We even had enough "length" left over to put a comfortable landing at the bottom of the staircase as you can see in the pics. If we /really/ wanted to/needed to, we've got somewhere around 40" at the top landing before running into a door/wall so we could probs snake out another 4-6" without it being too uncomfortable up there.

I kinda wanted a "U" shaped stairs, having 2 90* stairs at the bottom and 3 90* stairs at the top, but my husband didn't want to fiddle with the top structural stuff to do that right now :/


Also, the very first step will be at 7 1/2" finished. The overlays are all 1/4" thick


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> You've never seen a house that didn't have the length to put in 11" treads? That's crazy! Our house is actually kinda odd because the stairs happen to end at a wall. Most of the houses up here (that aren't split levels) have stairs that end inside an open entry foyer rather than at a wall. Maybe it's an insulation thing? Eh naw probs just a style thing ~shrug~
> 
> 
> In any event, in our house, we had an extra 42" at the bottom of the stairs that we utilized. We have 2 steps at the bottom going one direction, then we turn 90* and have the 13 steps going up. The total run of the stairs from the 90* turn is just under 12 foot with our 11" treads. We even had enough "length" left over to put a comfortable landing at the bottom of the staircase as you can see in the pics. If we /really/ wanted to/needed to, we've got somewhere around 40" at the top landing before running into a door/wall so we could probs snake out another 4-6" without it being too uncomfortable up there.
> ...


How long is the hole in the floor upstairs frm the floor in the hallway to the closet wall?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I can't really measure that atm cause the stairs are all tore up. It was, I believe, 16' 1" from the face of the top step riser (before deconstruction) to the bottom wall of the stairs, so it would be like 152"... so 12 1/2 foot I think, but I wouldn't put any money on that quick and dirty math


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> I can't really measure that atm cause the stairs are all tore up. It was, I believe, 16' 1" from the face of the top step riser (before deconstruction) to the bottom wall of the stairs, so it would be like 152"... so 12 1/2 foot I think, but I wouldn't put any money on that quick and dirty math


 There are to many what if's to guess at the math:glasses:
It looks not to serious there is a beam at the corner of the ceiling under the closet. One would have to be moved over to carry the joists under the closet and another to carry the wall above and just fake the ceiling.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

@Nealtw I'm a bit confused with your drawing cause that's not quite how our house is laid out...









Red circle on there is the stairs and upstairs closet in question.

The stairway, and house, end where you have the closet looking construction at the bottom of the stairs. That's an exterior wall on probably 8 foot deep cinder block foundation. 

Additionally, the wall along the left side of the stairs (between garage and house) is also on deep cinder block foundation - the garage and dining room (entire single story left side) were supposedly added on sometime in the 80s and have their own cinder block foundations; dining room in the back of the house has the same 6' clearance as the rest of the basement, garage in the front has no basement under it.


There is a major support wall basically where you've got the red arrow - the "support wall" on my layout drawing - it has posts in the basement on cement piers and all that. 

I'm not sure what you've got on the "sorta 3rd story/split level closet thing??" above the top of the stairs in your sketch there. We have an open platform landing thing at the top of the stairs and nothing to the ceiling/roof at the top of the stairs. This pic shows the end of the hall and top of the stairs: 









From the right end of the railing there is a landing that measures about 40" and the hallway in pic is 36" wide. The hallway has a kinda mini-balcony that's open "over" the top three or four steps. We took the railing off to move furniture and never put it back because it was literally just tacked and glued to the drywall.

The wall on the right side of this upstairs hall is over the one labeled "support wall" - goes all the way into the basement with the posts and stuff.

Also, the wall on the left side of the hallway is right about where there is a support structure beneath the stair stringers; the exterior "leg" of which goes down to the cinder block foundation and the interior "leg" makes up end of the knee wall and start of the full wall in the downstairs entry. ... I have no idea how to explain that better :vs_laugh:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> @*Nealtw* I'm a bit confused with your drawing cause that's not quite how our house is laid out...
> 
> View attachment 595765
> 
> ...


 I have drawn in the joists, the ones with red are doubles. 

The double under the end of the closet is supporting the floor of the closet and the wall right above that double.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Ah gotcha. 

I am doubtful that the double joist continues across the small closet as you've drawn, or even if it has a double joist at all, simply given the way this place seems to be constructed. Though I'll be hopeful about it 

If it doesn't then I figured to run a double joist along the entire "open" side of the floor platform (right side of stairs, basically as you drew,) slide in a "second" layer of rim joist on the parallel exterior wall (left side of stairs), and put in stabilizer boards between the floor joists on the other exterior wall (bottom exterior wall).

In the closet itself I figured to jack stud a new 3' higher 2x4 platform that's carried down to the 3 walls (right, left, bottom), then install a header on the wall that needs to be partially removed/raised (top interior wall).


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Ah gotcha.
> 
> I am doubtful that the double joist continues across the small closet as you've drawn, or even if it has a double joist at all, simply given the way this place seems to be constructed. Though I'll be hopeful about it
> 
> ...


You can't get there with out the doubles I have drwan in.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> You can't get there with out the doubles I have drwan in.


Then it'll just be a matter of transferring structural support down 3ish feet to the remaining doubles on one or more sides of the closet, yeah? 

Hopefully this weekend we'll have the stairs built enough to stand on comfortably so we can pull off the drywall and see what's in there.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Then it'll just be a matter of transferring structural support down 3ish feet to the remaining doubles on one or more sides of the closet, yeah?
> 
> Hopefully this weekend we'll have the stairs built enough to stand on comfortably so we can pull off the drywall and see what's in there.


 The beam that is under that end of the closet can be replaced with one in the botom of the wall so it sits on the double beside the stairs and the outside wall next to the garage. 

Then you could put the floor joists under the closet and go the short way across the closet from the double to the outside wall with 2x4 or 2x6 joists 

Or raise the deck inside the closet for how much you need. That shouldn't effect the door.
Really, you fake it until you like it. :wink2:


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Alright. Don't care bout the closet door, we might just pull it off and turn that into a built in bookcase or something. It's a stupidly useless closet either way heh


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

I think the key is that she doesn't care about that closet. On mine, I kept the closet but had to reduce it a little. The closet goes out onto a sloped stairway ceiling. On the first floor, I have a full wall at the stairs rather than the rail/spindles, as I needed the wall space. My tv is actually hung on that wall.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Alright, husband caught up enough at work to be able to get back to house projects.

Haven't cut the landing ceiling drywall at the bottom of the stairs yet, but we'd decided to replace the upstairs hallway flooring and found this at the top of the stairs:

(looking to the left side of the stairwell - with the wall mounted handrail)








(looking to the right side of the stairwell)








So we do indeed have a double joist, but it's not right up against the stairway wall like it was supposed/assumed earlier in the thread.

Am I correct that it's not a big deal for our plans, aka that double joist is carrying the load from the stairwell opening, even if it's offset by the 3" from the single joist there? 

OR do we need to try to get a second joist on the single joist there to carry the new raised closet floor at the bottom? (above the new landing)

The single joist at the top of the stairs is a bit "wobbly", like it doesn't have a load on it to pin it down (not that it connects to anything on the upside end atm o.o); we're going to reinforce it with a "sistered" 2x6 or 2x10 length stuck as far under the bedroom wall as we can reach and out to where the other joist ends are supported.

Also, I'd prefer to secure the top of my 4x4 post to the single joist there and the bottom to a joist in the basement - I don't want the post falling over if the grandkids swing on it (the old standard 40" or whatever stair post had pulled its screws out of the basement joists from the boys doing that.)


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Alright, husband caught up enough at work to be able to get back to house projects.
> 
> Haven't cut the landing ceiling drywall at the bottom of the stairs yet, but we'd decided to replace the upstairs hallway flooring and found this at the top of the stairs:
> 
> ...


 The original plan was for a wider stair case and they changed it, mid stream to make the bedroom bigger. :vs_mad:
How much more headroom do you need under closet, Or do you know yet?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> The original plan was for a wider stair case and they changed it, mid stream to make the bedroom bigger. :vs_mad:
> How much more headroom do you need under closet, Or do you know yet?


I'm short 29" to get to an 8 foot ceiling over the highest step there (but I think you said I could do 80" off the tread if I had to?) 

I can take the ceiling out to the double joist at the landing (bottom of the stairs) if I need to/if it makes it easier.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> I'm short 29" to get to an 8 foot ceiling over the highest step there (but I think you said I could do 80" off the tread if I had to?)
> 
> I can take the ceiling out to the double joist at the landing (bottom of the stairs) if I need to/if it makes it easier.


 Lay a straight edge up the stairs so it is touching the noses and measure from that corner of the ceiling straight down to the bottom of the straight edge. 

That needs to be eighty inches.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

It's short 13" so I've gotta raise it. 

I figured I'd raise it to 96" so it'd clear the double joist you figured was on the crossing wall.

That said, I was thinking about the post I want to put in, if I use lags bolts on the post, then I should be able to rest a double joist on top of the post to connect into the far wall - basically turning that post into a joist support that'll be connected from the left stair (handrail) wall, across to the right stair wall, and carried down to the basement. 

I think the post is even long enough that I could raise the post up high enough to nail on a joist hanger to connect/stabilize the post to the wall at the base of the stairs as well. That way it would be completely stationary and work as a pretty solid structural member.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> It's short 13" so I've gotta raise it.
> 
> I figured I'd raise it to 96" so it'd clear the double joist you figured was on the crossing wall.
> 
> ...


 We are near the same page if not on the same one. 

I was thinking you could do the post like a deck post and notch it to fit behind the single joist under the wall. That would allow you to remove the ceiling floor above the landing. For now I would just remove the drywall so we don't have to guess at what you have.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Right.

I was going to put the post along side the joist - lag bolted through the single joist. I can move it over to notch it though I think.

Notching would carry the load down better than lag bolting?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Right.
> 
> I was going to put the post along side the joist - lag bolted through the single joist. I can move it over to notch it though I think.
> 
> Notching would carry the load down better than lag bolting?


I was thinking, if it was notched and you put it up between the single and the double you could bolt them all together 

I suspect the header for the closet was there first so the single likely stops there and then you could remove the closet floor. 

You might have to move the closet wall out into the room 3, 4 inches, just that short piece.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> I was thinking, if it was notched and you put it up between the single and the double you could bolt them all together
> 
> I suspect the header for the closet was there first so the single likely stops there and then you could remove the closet floor.
> 
> You might have to move the closet wall out into the room 3, 4 inches, just that short piece.


Ah yeah, it'd certainly be more secure if we tied the single joist, double joist, and the post together.

Move the closet wall? Ya lost me there LOL

Even if we suspect they made the stairs narrower mid-stride (aka the double joist not being right under the wall) the closet's/bedroom's wall is in-line with the right stair wall (1st floor and 2nd floor) - which means closet/bedroom wall would be set on top of the single joist there...

Bah! Wait, never mind. You're right, let me get that drywall cut off and figure it out then. Never know what we're gonna find given the way this place is built :vs_laugh:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Ah yeah, it'd certainly be more secure if we tied the single joist, double joist, and the post together.
> 
> Move the closet wall? Ya lost me there LOL
> 
> ...


I had a house where that hole was 8" wider than the stairs, it was great for moving a king size mattress.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I nagged my husband into pulling down the drywall over the landing before he went to bed tonight. Here's what we found:















This is the only place in the house that has joist hangers (even the outside second story deck doesn't have hangers) so I'm kinda thinking maybe they did this when they added the garage and dining room on in the mid-80s. 

I'm guessing the exposed joist here (this is the interior side wall) is another inch or so out from that single joist at the top of the stairs.









My thought is to cut that single joist that's showing in pic 3 (it's on the cut edge of the ceiling in pics 1 and 2.) I was thinking to cut out more drywall to get my new post in under the double joist - presuming it goes all the way through. That'll put my entire column (and it's faux trim) under the existing ceiling so you can't see the top of it from upstairs. Plus I'm guessing that'll better support the ceiling being raised as well.

----

At least the wall (looking down the stairs) is normal - and as you figured @Nealtw - double joist across the stair opening, then 1/2 subfloor, then the bottom plate of the wall on top of that.









I was thinking to basically frame the new closet "floor" up kinda like a window - with jack studs on either side of the new "headers" higher up where the new "floor" of the closet will end up. 

The interior sides of the upstairs closet wall is pretty easy to get a jack stud into, but I'm not sure what to do on the exterior sides.

The garage side has another joist just beyond the sheetrock, maybe a 2" gap between it and the fully exposed joist with the hanger. It looks like the crosswise double joist I need to cut & move up is resting on the top plate of the garage side wall. The buried second joist butts up to the crosswise double joist but has no joist hanger. I think it might be the original rim joist. 

I'm thinking to see if I can pull out the double joist (if it was done with the addition there'll just be 30 toe nails to pull out argh) and then stick a "jack stud" kinda thing in the resulting gap. I might be able to pocket screw both sections of rim joist to the new jack stud if I pull a bit more drywall off. 

I'm not sure what to do on the exterior wall (with the insulation though) The rim joist makes putting in a jack stud kind of structure a bit odd. I do not want to cut the rim joist so I'd have to either rip down my "jack studs" or put them in on the flat. Maybe tie the "flat stud" into a "header" once I'm above the 2nd story sub floor, then put in a second "header" where the new "floor" of the closet is going to be?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> I nagged my husband into pulling down the drywall over the landing before he went to bed tonight. Here's what we found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will give you this in steps. 

I would start with removing drywall over to the double and install the post. Or maybe just put spacers between the joists and lag the single to the double in a few places in the length.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Find the needed height and just cut this wall. The new header want to go at least 1 1/2" into the garage wall with solid support below it. 

The bedroom side can be long into the bedroom. It wants to be well over the double and can be cut to length later. 

The wall with the closet door can be removed and rebuilt over the double joist.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

In the closet, remove drywall up to new floor height or a little more to allow subfloor to reach the studs


Cut the old floor sheet flush with the walls and the double joist.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Add 2x6 blocks half up behind the drywall for backing. 

I missed that earlier blocking should have been slipped u in the wall above the header.
Then just add the new floor joists screwed to the studs.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would remove 1 1/2" of drywall from the top of the lower walls and then just remove all those joist including the one at the wall and the header. and re install so you have one flush with the wall on both walls.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

@Nealtw <3 that was perfectly explained and drawn, my husband will love you lots because now he doesn't have to listen to me explain what to do (He says I get a bit impatient or "snippy" with him when he doesn't see whats in my mind )


The garage wall and the front door wall ("bottom" of the stairs) are both directly on the foundation - we've got a 6' crawlspace with at least 3' buried below the VB and dirt, could be as much as 6' more deep. 

The garage wall in particular is so "solid" that it causes the rest of the house to flex around it - like that wall is the pivot point for all our seasonal shifting. We also happen to be moving my washer/dryer into the garage on the other side of that wall there and need to build a second wall to put our pipes & dryer vent in; so we could pull off the garage drywall and get access the [first floor] wall studs below it if that'd help any.

---

I was thinking that since we're going to be fiddling around, I'd kinda like to secure the front door wall/bottom of the stairs wall a bit better - it's still mostly plumb, but it'd taken the full face of the quake (directional waves) and popped a bunch of it's drywall nails out. Also the front covered porch roof is sagging a bit and it irritates me. 















I know a lot of the roof sag and front porch deck problems are because they didn't put any kinda "foundation under" the outward support post (where I have my flag attached) - it's just sitting on a rather small cement pier even though its in a high frost heave location. Dumb. [We do plan to rip off all the deck boards and pour in a properly buried tube to put a new post on, re-level the roofline for new roofing, level the front decking, fix the porch stairs, redo the walkway, adjust the slope of the ground under the porch and put in some kind of water trench/drain/tube/etc. to keep water coming down the driveway from going under there, but all of that's going to have to wait until next summer thanks to covid.]

Anyway, so that wall there has the 6' wide front door opening and that big 8' wide window opening in it and I've always felt like it needs a bit more idk "structure." Is it worth pulling the drywall to put some more studs in at the bottom of the stairs and in the closet above or would that be kinda pointless?

I mean ultimately almost the entire front of the house gets pulled off for my addition, but that's quite a few years out - 5 or so at least as I want/need to rebuild the shop first (since it was damaged in the quake, and because I figure with the shop I'll be better able to build/help with the house addition.)


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> @*Nealtw* <3 that was perfectly explained and drawn, my husband will love you lots because now he doesn't have to listen to me explain what to do (He says I get a bit impatient or "snippy" with him when he doesn't see whats in my mind )
> 
> 
> The garage wall and the front door wall ("bottom" of the stairs) are both directly on the foundation - we've got a 6' crawlspace with at least 3' buried below the VB and dirt, could be as much as 6' more deep.
> ...


 The sheeting on the wrap around roof is what is holding those walls stiff.
Makes that section act as one with little sway 

The sag in the front porch roof looks like the corner of the deck is down, white behind the white bucket in the picture. 



there will not be much to see from the garage side but it might give him more access for cutting in the new header.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> The sheeting on the wrap around roof is what is holding those walls stiff.
> Makes that section act as one with little sway
> 
> The sag in the front porch roof looks like the corner of the deck is down, white behind the white bucket in the picture.
> ...


Yeah the dumb post thing is behind the white bucket. I'm guessing it wasn't standard in the late 70s to put piers or foundation-esk cement under porches. The back deck is in even worse shape cause they just put those portable piers down on the ground. Like I don't think they even compacted the dirt under them or anything. Really poor support for a deck, much less that 12' - 15' of deck and roof in the front there.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> Yeah the dumb post thing is behind the white bucket. I'm guessing it wasn't standard in the late 70s to put piers or foundation-esk cement under porches. The back deck is in even worse shape cause they just put those portable piers down on the ground. Like I don't think they even compacted the dirt under them or anything. Really poor support for a deck, much less that 12' - 15' of deck and roof in the front there.


When you are doing other foundation work it would not be to tricky to hold that up and dig out for a proper pier.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If I had to guess the partial wall is there to be able to take furniture, bedding, etc., up and down the stair easily.

Have you thought about installing a removable railing for that purpose.?


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## davidjohnson (Jul 3, 2020)

Just poking my head in and saying hi! Great stuff so far on this forum.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Apologies for being away for a while there - had a grandbaby and everything got a bit wonky! :biggrin2:

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Could be right about the open part at the bottom of the stairs, or it could just be to lessen the "tunnel" effect on the stairway and the "tunnel" effect of the downstairs hall into the kitchen. We removed the railing down there probably 12 or 13 years ago - along with the railing at the top of the stairs - and we've never regretted it yet (not at all code though hahaha)

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Back to the project at hand though.

We're at a bit of a pause as the husband and I have been revisiting a long ago idea of removing the upstairs closet entirely and putting a window in the stairway for light (believe I discussed on here as well.) 

The gyst of it is that we've been hunting everywhere for a light fixture for the stairway and none of the ones we like are exactly great for lighting such a large and narrow area. There are no windows that hit the stairway at all so it's always been very dark and IDK "claustrophobic" I suppose.

Problem is that the peak of the roof over the adjacent garage goes all the way up to the 2nd floor ceiling at the top of the stairs, so we're going to be limited in window size. Husband and I were "arguing" about doing a hexagon on the front of the house for a week or so - I'm not budging on it; it's a non-gable important structural wall with a bunch of big doors and windows in it, plus it'd be a tiny 1 foot wide window, AND it'd throw off the symmetry of the front of the house (French Tudor with the dark board "timbers" over "stucco" look.)

So we're going to get out on the roof and see how big a triangle or long short rectangle we can fit between the attic "floor" and the "snow line" of the roof there - then we'll decide if we're gonna put in a window or keep the "shortened" closet. Husband's been super busy so I suspect this project is going to be a bit to get too - aka after the other projects were doing, but hopefully before winter :vs_laugh:


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