# can I latex paint over fresh oil stain



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If your not willing to put the time in to do it right then the paint is going to fail. I'd prime it with oil based primer, once it's thoroughly dry use latex enamel paint.
Enamel is a much tougher paint.
Never go over paint with any form of poly. The poly is going to turn yellow with age and will peel off over time.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

No matter what- you will be probably doing 3 coats to cover- particularly if you go to a light color- so why not do it right.
Make sure the stain is good and dry ( a day or 2), Lightly sand smooth with a 220 sponge, and use a good acrylic primer. My new fav is Zinsser Smart prime, it is a waterborne alkyd , lays down nice and will seal that up good. 
Then use a great quality waterborne finish - ( NOT found at HD..) It will cost a bit- but will be worth it. 
I like BM paints - Aura Satin, Advance would be 2 choices.
SW makes good ones to- Pro Classic WB. There are quite a few to choose from.
After prime you will need to do any nail hole filling, caulking etc. 
Do it right, and it will last.

Good Luck!


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm still going with a dark color, brown/black espresso like. I said I didnt WANT to prime if it wasn't necessary but I also said if I should I would. I've put a ton of time and money into this already so I'd like to finish it up right. Also, on the poly, I thought water based poly doesnt yellow? Thanks for the quick responses!


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## mazey (Jan 27, 2011)

i did all the oak floors in my house. like the look of it.was going to refinish the stairs also, but had a few people slip a little on the smooth wood.dog also just slid down them instead of walking down them, had them carpeted along with upstairs hallway. feels much safer, think about that option instead of keeping the paint looking good over time. good luck


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

When we did we start recommending standard trim enamel on a surface to be walked on? Did I miss a memo? lol I suggest a porch and floor enamel.


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

thanks Mazey, I actually took the runner off the stairs because it was hard to keep clean and the wood treads looked so beat up. I might have to consider adding it back if the paint doesnt hold up. either that or down the road maybe pay to have nice oak treads put in. For now I want to see what I can do with paint since stain wont work. 
jsheriden- That is what I was thinking, I have oil based zinsser cover stain from a previous project, then a porch and floor paint (was thinking behr but if theres something better I'm for it) and then two coats of water based poly. Everyone seems to be saying different things. 
so confused!


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

Use a primer -- use a finish paint that is specifically designed for walking surfaces -- do not put poly over top. (poly adds surface protection to stained surfaces that the stain itself does not provide - if you are using paint, that protection is built in.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Look a the section about painting stain or sealed kitchen cabinets. This is from the Sherwin Williams web site.
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_...painting_faq/application_faq/index.jsp#q19207


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

LidoGirl said:


> I've been working on refinishing my staircase for a bit now. Sanded down the old pine treads and tried a dozen stain samples on sample wood I thought was the closest match etc etc. Finally bit the bullet yesterday and went ahead with an espresso stain.....and it looks absolutely horrible.
> 
> I can't say I wasn't warned. I know pine doesnt absorb stain well and the darker the color the worse it takes, I used a conditioner and everything but even though my samples looked good, the real deal looks very "stripey" and the grain contrasts too much with the rest of the wood. I hate it and want to cry. Anyway. I will not go through the sanding process again (my OCD and lack of patience and motiviation simply will not let me) plus I dont think the stain can just be sanded off. I knew this going in. So I feel I have no other choice at this point then to paint the steps. I don't really love the look of painted stairs, especially on the main floor but I'm out of ideas. My question is....can I use a latex paint over these steps that were stained yesterday? I'd prefer not to prime, I'd like to limit the layers of paint I put on. But I should start listening to those who know better, so I will if I have to. Also, I already purchased Oil based floor polyurethane, can I use this over the latex paint to protect it? or should I get a water based? If anyone has any advice I would really really appreciate it. I'd like to get this done before the weekend also....seeing as the holidays are around the corner and I have obligations piling up there also. Thanks soooo much!!
> 
> Jen


Hi Jen,

Before you paint, consider this - if that oil stain was just applied yesterday, you could probably alter the stain's appearance by scrubbing with a scuff pad and mineral spirits. If you lighten it up sufficiently enough to lessen the contrast between the grains, and still want the "natural" wood appearance, there are varnish stains (colored varnishes) that may work for you. If you go that route, make sure the varnish is intended for floors, and it's always a good idea to coat over varnish stains with 1 or 2 clear coats of the same type of varnish. If you can find an acrylic poly (water-borne, but not water-reducible alkyd poly), that is suitable for floors, they won't yellow like their oil counter-parts. Good Luck.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I can't speak to Behr floor enamel. I prefer Ben Moore's products, either of which would make a poly topcoat unnecessary. Most floor products wouldn't require a poly topcoat, as they're designed to take abuse. BM latex p&f enamel is epoxy modified, but only comes in satin, which is less of a slip hazard. The oil is urethane modified, but is a gloss. The oil product is formulated to be self priming on bare surfaces, while the latex requires priming. Many p&f enamels are self priming. I would inquire at the paint store as to your particular situation and the products available. A cured stain surface may be considered primed for your purposes, necessitating only two coats. And if you go quality, you'll have more peace of mind that the finish will be durable. Good Luck.
Joe


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks, I will look into the BM porch and floor paint tomorrow. Saves me a lot of time if I don't have to poly....good news. 

Ric- I do want the natural wood appearance...what can you tell me about colored varnish? Can I get a dark dark brown? Where would I find such a thing?


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

LidoGirl said:


> Thanks, I will look into the BM porch and floor paint tomorrow. Saves me a lot of time if I don't have to poly....good news.
> 
> Ric- I do want the natural wood appearance...what can you tell me about colored varnish? Can I get a dark dark brown? Where would I find such a thing?


If you can find 'em, you're usually pretty limited in a color selection, however most companies made them in a dark walnut brown color that might work for you...I know Minwax used to make a product called PolyShades, in both an alkyd and acrylic, but I don't know if it's still available and if this was suitable as a floor varnish. Varnish stains are not as popular as they once were, and were typically made in conventional alkyd varnishes (as opposed to polys) - so you might have to call around and see if any is available to you locally. Also, talk to your local paint store about possibly mixing your own varnish stain.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I've tryed the Poly Shade twice, both times it just would not soak into some areas and would just pool up. It's also not a finish that's going to last on stair treads.
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products...x-polyshades?gclid=CKubjeb63qwCFQM75Qod9h-QqA
Try looking around on this Min Wax sight for some advice. There the experts.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

This isn't so much DIY- but I do make my own tinted varnish often- either by adding regular tint or a bit of stain into it (oils).
Since you used such a dark stain to begin with, I think the hardest thing will be reducing that back. But because you preconditioned- that will help . 
I suggest you work on one stair- see how far back you can take it, and then post a couple of pics. 
That is if you don't go the paint route. I stand corrected ( again! dang!) about using the floor paint. I often paint the risers and skirts and have the steps themselves be a varnished finish. (Another thing to consider).


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## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

I personally would not give up on the stain yet. Put on a few more coats, let it sit. The lighter areas may darken enough to a point that is closer to what you were looking for.

If I was going to cover it with paint I would wait close to a week before I even thought about priming it. You want it dry as it's going to get before you cover it.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

LidoGirl said:


> thanks Mazey, I actually took the runner off the stairs because it was hard to keep clean and the wood treads looked so beat up. I might have to consider adding it back if the paint doesnt hold up. either that or down the road maybe pay to have nice oak treads put in. For now I want to see what I can do with paint since stain wont work.
> jsheriden- That is what I was thinking, I have oil based zinsser cover stain from a previous project, then a porch and floor paint (was thinking behr but if theres something better I'm for it) and then two coats of water based poly. Everyone seems to be saying different things.
> so confused!


 
just about ANYTHING would be a step up:laughing:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> This isn't so much DIY- but I do make my own tinted varnish often- either by adding regular tint or a bit of stain into it (oils).
> Since you used such a dark stain to begin with, I think the hardest thing will be reducing that back. But because you preconditioned- that will help .
> I suggest you work on one stair- see how far back you can take it, and then post a couple of pics.
> That is if you don't go the paint route. I stand corrected ( again! dang!) about using the floor paint. I often paint the risers and skirts and have the steps themselves be a varnished finish. (Another thing to consider).


"The whole world is watching". :laughing:
Just teasin. We all have our moment in the chair. Honestly, I sensed that was an oversight on your part, that's why I put the lol behind the "memo" line. I learned a long time ago that gloating creates negative karma.:whistling2:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I had a conversation today in HD with the Behr rep. I asked how they fortified their floor enamel, they're epoxy fortified, no urethane. For what that's worth. Ric may know better, but I think urethane would be superior to epoxy. I worded that with Brushjockey's shadow in mind, lol.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jsheridan said:


> I had a conversation today in HD with the Behr rep. I asked how they fortified their floor enamel, they're epoxy fortified, no urethane. For what that's worth. Ric may know better, but I think urethane would be superior to epoxy. I worded that with Brushjockey's shadow in mind, lol.


The prof's lecture is being written:laughing:


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

how DO you get stain off if I should decide to start over from scratch? belt sander? stripper?


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

I think Ric mentioned in his first reply- Use a rag with mineral spirits- might follow up with a scrubbie once it softens up. This will not take it totally off, but might lighten it enough that you can seal and then overcoat with a tinted varnish to even it out. 
This is not DIY 101, but we all learned by doing stuff like this.


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

I tried to attach pics. The main problem is the contrast between grain and no grain areas. Not sure if tinted varnish will help. I also found out that you can't buy oil paint in CT so I'd have to get the latex epoxy reinforced floor paint. (sigh) what a mess.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Lido, what is wrong with those steps? I think they look great. That's fabulous grain and a great accent of it. It almost looks to me like the stair maker laid them out purposely. Me, I would poly over them and enjoy them, but that's me.
Joe


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

I agree with Joe- that is how that wood looks. And it looks fine.
I think if you put a satin sheen- not a gloss- it will mellow it a bit. If you want to add just a little of your stain in the finish, ( not so much that you are graining with the brush) it will soften the look a bit also. But if the color overall is acceptable to you, I'd go with it.


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

The contrast is too much, they are too rustic looking for me. I wanted a more contemporary look. The pictures don't look as bad as they do in person either, there's a lot of splotches and stains that showed up that I expected the dark color to hide. Thanks for all the advice, i wish I liked them as much as you guys do .


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

jsheridan said:


> When we did we start recommending standard trim enamel on a surface to be walked on? Did I miss a memo? lol I suggest a porch and floor enamel.


This. And even the floor enamel in OIL will eventually chip. If it were me I would opt for a 2 part epoxy and NOT the water based version. Now you have to wory about traction. Have you considered carpet?


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## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

More coats! Let it sit! Seriously, that will reduce the contrast because the darker areas will not get much darker while the lighter parts will. At the very least try a few more coats on one step to see if it improves it more to your liking.

And the poly on top of it will darken it and decrease the contrast a bit as well. Tinting the poly will help further in that respect.

As for removing it, you'd need to sand it out. Stain penetrates the wood. You need to remove the stained wood, essentially.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Matthewt1970 said:


> This. And even the floor enamel in OIL will eventually chip. If it were me I would opt for a 2 part epoxy and NOT the water based version. Now you have to wory about traction. Have you considered carpet?


Matt, BM latex floor enamel is expoy fortified, I doubt if it would chip with a good bonding primer under it.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

If you don't mind it being overall darker- I think tinted varnish is your best bet for getting a subtler contrast.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

The only problem with more coats of stain, and this from discussions with floor guys, is that the successive coats of stain will not penetrate and will not adhere. Once the clear coat goes over and bonds to the unbonded stain, the possibility of chipping is real. I only know this because I did a job once (for an employer) where multiple coats of stain were called for and in a discussion with a floor finisher he told me that he wouldn't guarantee it for that reason. He encounters similar situations doing floors.


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## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

jsheridan said:


> The only problem with more coats of stain, and this from discussions with floor guys, is that the successive coats of stain will not penetrate and will not adhere. Once the clear coat goes over and bonds to the unbonded stain, the possibility of chipping is real. I only know this because I did a job once (for an employer) where multiple coats of stain were called for and in a discussion with a floor finisher he told me that he wouldn't guarantee it for that reason. He encounters similar situations doing floors.


Interesting. I never would have guessed. 

I guess it begs the question of whether you can rub down the stain with something to make it soluble again, such as acetone (with adequate precautions) and then add that extra coat or two. Perhaps not.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

But if its tinted varnish, its in the finish... 

Ok , last time I'll bring it up.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> But if its tinted varnish, its in the finish...
> 
> Ok , last time I'll bring it up.


I don't think my point would apply to your suggestion. I think it would be fine, it's basically just a tinted clear finish. I meant to add that to my post but forgot.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Wow...32 responses - and still counting! Never let it be said we didn't rise to the occasion and present poor Jen with almost every possible system available...latex paints, oil paints, epoxy modified, poly fortified, tinted varnishes, sealers, bonding primers, 2 part epoxies (not the water kind)...(remind me to bring y'all up to date on the wonderful advances in water-borne epoxies...amazing products)....(that's probably best left for another thread though).

Jen, I gotta agree with Joe and the Brush Jockey...I think the steps look great, perhaps a little rustic, but they look good none-the-less. I also agree with Brush Jock that you may be surprised at how much a couple coats of clear over those steps would tone things down and even hide some of the "splotches" you describe. 

Having said that, Matt asked if you'd ever considered carpet - maybe you should. Not necessarily the wall-to-wall kind, but possibly a runner that is installed over only half the surface area, with the exposed varnished wood on each end. The reason(s) you may want to consider this is because of that handsome beast laying at the foot of the stairs. Dogs have a hard enough time on varnished floors, not to mention getting up and down varnished steps (and being the dog-lover that I am, I know it only gets worse as they get older) - BUT - the other issue is a dog's nails are brutal on even the hardest, most resilient of finishes. By varnishing these steps, you may be creating a on-going maintenance problem far beyond what you have bargained for.

Consider this, and let us know what you think - by then, we'll come up with several other systems for you to consider.

Ric

PS - Not that I'm recommending it, but I'm pretty sure you can buy oil paints in CT.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Bought toys for kids I do not know today. No crazed woman sprayed me with pepper spray to gain advantage. I dropped them all off at the fire station. I guess US Marines will play Santa and a kid that might only have hoped for nothing will get something reasonably cool. Of course I spent more than expected. Name one person who does not this time of year. 

A bought some stuffed things but not one Behr product for friends. Just thought about it though. If I bought quarts of Behr and gave them to my friends for NY gifts? Could get a reaction. Of course it would have to be the primer and paint in one product. Exterior or interior though?

Actually I could not bring myself to buy the crap.


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

wow. I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I dont know what way to go. I'm thinking about trying another coat of stain, but to me, its already absorbed what its going to. I feel like i'd just be wiping it all off again. I will try one step tomorrow just to give my original plan one last chance. Tinted varnish sounds scary and confusing to me. I'm pretty sure thats what was on these floors before I started this mess....and it probably would have been the answer but I'm not sure if I could get it as dark as I wanted and now I dont know if it will cover the stripes. I really dont know where to get this item....can I just put some stain into the poly I've already got and call it tinted poly? The look I was going for was this:









a nice dark finish thats mostly one color! I hate the stripes they make me dizzy. as far as carpet, we had a runner over the old beat up steps and it was very difficult to keep clean. I'm a neat freak so swiffering wood steps is much easier. The dog definetly is doing a number on the upstairs floors as you can see (appears to be the same varnished pine), so that is a legitimate concern, however we had the steps bare for about 6 months before this nightmare and it seemed ok. SO tomorrow I will try another coat of stain on one step. if that doesnt work maybe I'll try mixing up a lidogirl custom tinted poly concoction and try it on a sample board. (not that sample boards have proven trustworthy). then I guess I'll start picking out a paint color. keep the conversation going though, at least I feel like I have some support through this difficult time!


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

LidoGirl said:


> wow. I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I dont know what way to go. I'm thinking about trying another coat of stain, but to me, its already absorbed what its going to. I feel like i'd just be wiping it all off again. I will try one step tomorrow just to give my original plan one last chance. Tinted varnish sounds scary and confusing to me. I'm pretty sure thats what was on these floors before I started this mess....and it probably would have been the answer but I'm not sure if I could get it as dark as I wanted and now I dont know if it will cover the stripes. I really dont know where to get this item....can I just put some stain into the poly I've already got and call it tinted poly? The look I was going for was this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, you can. Obviously, the poly and stain must both be oil (which kinda settles the question as to whether you can buy oil paints in CT),* But it's not gonna give the mostly opaque finish you want* - Based on that picture, and your desire to hide almost all the wood grain, you're gonna need a whole lot more pigment than what most tinted varnishes are going to be able to deliver. You want to hear one more suggestion? Call your local paint store and see if he/she carries an alkyd gloss floor enamel in a *clear *base. If so, see if his/her color chart has a similar color to that which you are tying to achieve - then have him/her tint the clear base at about 1/2 the formula. Being mixed into a clear base, this should still give the color you want, but still be transparent enough that you can still tell it's wood you've painted over. It's probably going to take 2 coat to get the effect you want. Allow to dry, sand lightly, remove sanding dust, then apply a couple coats of clear poly and you should get the finish in the pic...(whew)...


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## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

That's a good point about dogs and varnished stairs...

A year ago I was painting the stairway in preparation for putting the house on the market. We had hardwood polyurethaned stairs and they had just been redone. We also had a 14 year old golden retreiver who was getting a bit frail. He would no longer come upstairs to sleep with us but would stay downstairs. He would, however, come upstairs when he needed on rare occasion to go out in the middle of the night to relieve himself as he had lost his voice. It was worth it to him to labor up the steps instead of going inside. Usually I would hear him struggling with the first few steps and would hope out of bed and go let him out.

Well, I had left a gallon of paint on the stairs, tucked to the side with a dropcloth, and he came up the stairs and I did not hear him. He slipped halfway up and slid down, taking the gallon of paint with him on the way, the lid of which was not on firmly. I hear him go down, claws scrabbling on the stairs, and I arrived on the scene to see him sprawled in a gallon of spilled paint at the foot of the stairs. At 2 am. He had been transformed into an 80 lb. paintbrush. Think of how long it takes to clean a simple roller and then imagine washing paint out of a very furry dog. The hours it took to clean him and the floor is seared into my memory. 

Since then I have never left a can of paint less than tightly closed. Live and learn.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Ironlight said:


> That's a good point about dogs and varnished stairs...
> 
> A year ago I was painting the stairway in preparation for putting the house on the market. We had hardwood polyurethaned stairs and they had just been redone. We also had a 14 year old golden retreiver who was getting a bit frail. He would no longer come upstairs to sleep with us but would stay downstairs. He would, however, come upstairs when he needed on rare occasion to go out in the middle of the night to relieve himself as he had lost his voice. It was worth it to him to labor up the steps instead of going inside. Usually I would hear him struggling with the first few steps and would hope out of bed and go let him out.
> 
> ...


That's certainly the way to learn:laughing::no:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Ric, the idea of the clear base is a great example of thinking outside of the box. Kind of like reducing oil finish 50% with thinner and using it as a wash/"stain", which can produce a real nice effect. However, for some reason I don't think it will work. I think it will just be an opaque finish at half strentgh the chosen color. But, I could be wrong. I think BJ's idea of tinted varnish is probably the only way to stay with the stained look. But, could you push them far enough to satisfy OP with that method? I think what you need is a old time floor guy, or an old time faux decorator who carries a tint tray, someone who can see the steps themselves who has a solid understanding of color and finishes. I'm sure OP's head is swirling at this point.


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

The Benjamin Moore store told me they only carry the latex floor paint beacause you can't sell oil in Ct anymore. I didnt at the time think to question the fact that you can get oil primer, stain , poly etc... however he doesnt sell the alkyd stuff. (how do you even say that). I could call sherwin williams I suppose but I dont think their website listed that they even make an oil base floor paint. other than that I'm out of paint stores besided HD and Lowes. I'm so frustrated and dont know what direction to go. I just want close my eyes and make this go away!


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## LidoGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

one more question. when I put the stain on it looks beautiful, but when I wipe off the "excess" it goes back to looking all striped. Why cant I just let the stain dry without wiping it off and then poly over that?


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Lido, you can brush stain on with no wipe. However, read post #31 before you do. You may have bonding issues. 
If you decide to go with floor enamel, a good bonding primer (Zinsser 123) and two coats of latex floor enamel will be fine.
There's a lot of confusion as to what oil is available and where. I think there's even more as to the future of it. You're fortunate you only have to deal with it as you do, we have to deal with it on a regular basis. If it's frustrating, remember that when you go to vote. It's the government that is shutting it all down. It's they, not the paint companies, that are limiting your choices. What are they going to start limiting down the road? What you can eat? What you can drive? What, and how much, fuel you can use? Etc. Think about it, this is just the beginning. If we accept this, we have to accept it all. Good Luck! I think we have given about all the options there are.

BTW, it's pronounced AL-KID


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

jsheridan said:


> Lido, you can brush stain on with no wipe. However, read post #31 before you do. You may have bonding issues.
> If you decide to go with floor enamel, a good bonding primer (Zinsser 123) and two coats of latex floor enamel will be fine.
> There's a lot of confusion as to what oil is available and where. I think there's even more as to the future of it. You're fortunate you only have to deal with it as you do, we have to deal with it on a regular basis. If it's frustrating, remember that when you go to vote. It's the government that is shutting it all down. It's they, not the paint companies, that are limiting your choices. What are they going to start limiting down the road? What you can eat? What you can drive? What, and how much, fuel you can use? Etc. Think about it, this is just the beginning. If we accept this, we have to accept it all. Good Luck! I think we have given about all the options there are.
> 
> BTW, it's pronounced AL-KID


Well said, Joe...well said.


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