# what solid stain is best?



## mpgumm

I have used Bear plus solid deck stain- two words- stay away! It peeled in places so bad I have to re-do the whole thing. I am looking for the best product so I can get a few years in without having to redo it. I am going with solid because that is what is already there. I need something that will last. I have looked on consumer report.org and they rated Flood Swf solid latex the best- but on all the forums I don't see mention of Flood products- I see a lot of Cabots, SW Deckscapes. Also what is down now is oil-based. Is latex the way to go or do I still use oil-based solid stain. Let me know thank you. (This is for a 20x20 deck)


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## Matthewt1970

Ugg, sorry to see this. More toubles from a BS third rate product. Stay away from Behr and stay away from Latex stains. Use an oil based stain. Latex stain is really nothing more than latex paint. It doesn't soak in like a stain would so therfore you have way too much sitting on the surface so it is basicly paint. You wouldn't put latex paint on bare wood so don't put latex stain on bare wood. Priming defeats the whole purpose of staining. Using a good quality Oil based stain will last you many years and vs paint, when you are ready to stain again, the old stain won't be peeling off like a paint would. 

From looking at your picture you really need to get all that Behr "Paint" off your wall or the stain will no be able to do it's job soaking into the wood. 

Matt


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## mpgumm

*thanks! So brand should I use?*

What brand is the best for solid stain? I think I still want a dark brown color. I just want the best stain out there so I don't have to do this every year.


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## slickshift

No question:
Sikkens


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## mpgumm

*Sikkens?*

Sikkens I haven't herd of it. Where do you buy it? Why is it the best of all solid oil-based stains?


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## slickshift

Yeah they are not real marketing savvy as far as the American market goes
They tend to be pretty specific and accurate, which Americans don't care for

Plug Sikkens into your favorite internet search engine, you should find their site
And get a local dealer

Why?....I'm not a chemist so I couldn't analyze it in that way
But truly, I've been using their products as a go-to problem area solution for years

They will want you to remove what is there
Regardless of your choice, even if they don't say so, you need to get rid of that horrid Behr
Sikkens will insist on it..the others should, but many consumers don't want to hear that so the manufacturers (marketing really) leave that part out as to not lose sales

I would remove any/all possible at whatever cost/effort and re-coat with 2 coats oil Sikkens


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## fmeijler

You did not prep your deck, you have to sand, de-mold, wash and then blow clean it.
No stain will work if you do not prep the surface.


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## Matthewt1970

Ya Sikkens is good stuff, and they have a boat load of colors to choose from so you should be able to find the right brown.


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## gma2rjc

How many years does the Sikkens last before the deck has to be re-sealed?

I used the 'One-Time-Wood' sealer ( www.onetimewood.com) on my decks in the spring of 2007. It's gauranteed to last 7 years. Looking at it today, I'm not so sure it's going to make it through this spring. It sure isn't looking very good.


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## poppameth

Sikkens doesn't put a stated time frame on their product. It depends quite a bit on the amount of sunlight it gets. I've seen Rubbol go as much as ten years without needing a recoat if it's in a well shaded area.


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## mpgumm

fmeijler said:


> You did not prep your deck, you have to sand, de-mold, wash and then blow clean it.
> No stain will work if you do not prep the surface.


 
The sad thing is that I did prep the deck to the tee that behr recommends on the label. I used all Behr prep products. I sanded the deck, cleaned all dust with their prep cleaner, waited four days to dry completly, and did two coats with Behr Deck plus solid latex stain. I used a **** load of stain. It says one gallon will coat 200-400 sq. ft. but it didn't cover that great. I used a lot more than two gallons. So in a way you buy a cheep can of stain, but end up spending more because it doesn't go on great, so you are buying more cans of stain. 

Good news though, I called Behr and complained. They were fighting the claim saying I used too much stain. Just for you to know, if you call to complain, tell them you did everything it told you on the label and that you used the exact amount it told you- because if you don't, they will fight it saying you did it wrong-there for it is your fault. I asked for $300.00 for all the cans of paint, time, supplies, sander, and prep solutions. I have to send in pictures of the can on the deck, pics of the damage, pics of the whole deck, and the upc off of a can. It takes three weeks to process. After complaining how bad of a product it is, they wanted to send a pro out to do my deck with the same stuff I was complaining about. Anyone going through this good luck. My advise, get the money and not another application of a ****ty product!!!! save your upc and or receipt!!!


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## mpgumm

*give me the best brands*

anyone that has a pick of their best solid 0il based stain for outdoor deck let me know. Just give me the brand name and or company. Would love to get as many opinions as possible. Thank you to all that reply. I am a little obsessed with this considering all the time and money I have gone through the last two years staining my deck- only to be exactly the same place I was at the beginning (a horrible looking deck-thanks Be hr) I appreciate all comments to help me have a stain job that will last me more than a year. So I can spend weeks during the spring doing something else than stripping and staining my deck!!! Hopefully I can save someone from the same headache


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## mazzonetv

sikkens is absolutely great stuff - expensive but cheaper in the long run if you consider labor. Ben Moore makes a great solid deck stain as well - you might also want to look at a product by MAD DOG Primer called deck fix which would be applied prior to putting a solid body deck stain down.


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## mpgumm

Mad dog? What is it, a primer? What does it do help the solid stain add-hear better? I herd that primer just seals the wood too much where it can't breath, is that true. Let me know the best thing to prep with. I know Prep. is just as important as the stain itself. Love to hear any suggestions of prep. products. prep. steps, and of course type of stain. Man I am really starting to lean towards going with sikkens do to all the comments on it. Is it that good? I am not a painter so any suggestions, tricks, etc. is highly appreciated. Want to get going on the deck soon because I can't bear (behr) ha ha to see it in the condition it is in. Keep tracking hunks of stain into the house. Just want to start over right and next spring/summer have a extra two weeks to do something else than stain a deck. Thanks guys.


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## mpgumm

*Which Sikkens product?*



mazzonetv said:


> sikkens is absolutely great stuff - expensive but cheaper in the long run if you consider labor. Ben Moore makes a great solid deck stain as well - you might also want to look at a product by MAD DOG Primer called deck fix which would be applied prior to putting a solid body deck stain down.


Looked at Sikkens site. It seems like I have two choices for a solid stain. Rubbol Solid DEK or Rubbol DEK Not sure what the difference is between the two. If you know about Sikken products let me know.


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## poppameth

Rubbol DEK is their classic oil based product. It's been the go to product for a long time. Rubbol Solid DEK is their new acrylic version. It's only been out since this February. I haven't sold any yet and I can't comment on it's performance at this point. I'd say go with the tried and true oil product until there is a some feedback on the new product.


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## mpgumm

*Is there an advantage of the new?*

Thanks I agree to go with what has worked. What is the difference of the two and what are they saying is the advantage of the new one? Is the old one the same formula as it was? Because sometimes they can change the formula and keep the same name. Also was wondering why consumer report ranks sikkens pretty low. They recommend Olympic stain. It gets confusing of what to believe and who to believe.


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## adman

I too am considering a solid stain for my deck (including the highly tauted 'Sikkens Rubbol DEK' / oil-based stain), though a part of me wants to maintain the 'wood grain' appearance that we currently have, though currently weathered. Priorities to me are low maintenance and longevity... which points me toward the 'solid stain', though the prospect of eventual peeling or flaking is a turn-off.

*My specific questions*... assuming appropriate 'preparation' is done:

1) Does a good solid stain typically 'outlast' an equally good semi-transparent stain'?

2) Is it so that oil-based stains (specifically solid stains) 'last longer' than water based stains?

3) Even if 'maintained' decently, is it inevitable that a solid stain will eventually peel or flake?

4) What are the main disadvantages of a solid (oil-based) stain?

I'm hoping there's a forum member who has broad enough experience on the subject (far more than I do) to help me out. Thanks!


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## Stillwerkin

Sikkens makes high quality automotive paint. Good reputation in that field.


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## Dana11

This looks so bad. You must have felt like doing something to them 
Try lowe's solid stains for deck.


Dana


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## poppameth

mpgumm said:


> Thanks I agree to go with what has worked. What is the difference of the two and what are they saying is the advantage of the new one? Is the old one the same formula as it was? Because sometimes they can change the formula and keep the same name. Also was wondering why consumer report ranks sikkens pretty low. They recommend Olympic stain. It gets confusing of what to believe and who to believe.


The advantages are water cleanup, more environmentally friendly, better color retention and flexibility. The normal stuff when dealing with water vs oil. Waterborne floor coatings have always been sub-par in the past compared to oil. However, with the move away from VOC, the good parts of the oil have disappeared to the point where there isn't much to recommend it anymore. The on thing oil still has going for it is penetration into the wood, but even that isn't the greatest anymore since it's all gove high solids with little solvent left to actually penetrate. 

As for Consumer Reports, throw it away and cancel your subscription. At least on the paint end of things, it's always been a joke. They don't test all the aspects that really matter. And they aren't comparing just quality of the products. They are factoring cost in as well. Sikkens costs more than many other products so it gets a lower rating for not being as good of a value.


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## poppameth

*My specific questions*... assuming appropriate 'preparation' is done:

1) Does a good solid stain typically 'outlast' an equally good semi-transparent stain'?
*Yes generally. The opaque pigments provide more protection from the sun and take longer to break down.*

2) Is it so that oil-based stains (specifically solid stains) 'last longer' than water based stains?
*That's debatable. Acrylics usually last longer as far as color and retain their flexibility better, but since they get less penetration they tend to peel more readily in certain situations.*

3) Even if 'maintained' decently, is it inevitable that a solid stain will eventually peel or flake?
*Yes, any film forming product will do this. You can only build up so many coats before it will start to peel.*

4) What are the main disadvantages of a solid (oil-based) stain?
*You don't get the rich wood appearance anymore. It looks more like paint.*


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## mpgumm

*Set me straight!!!!*

Sorry everyone, I am reading so much I am getting confused!!! Please set me straight!!!!!!

Sikkens Rubbol DEK or Rubbol Solid DEK?

Is Sikkens the stain to get, if not what?

Should I go with solid stain, if not what?

Should I get oil based stain?

What prep. solution should I get?


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## Matthewt1970

adman said:


> I too am considering a solid stain for my deck (including the highly tauted 'Sikkens Rubbol DEK' / oil-based stain), though a part of me wants to maintain the 'wood grain' appearance that we currently have, though currently weathered. Priorities to me are low maintenance and longevity... which points me toward the 'solid stain', though the prospect of eventual peeling or flaking is a turn-off.
> 
> *My specific questions*... assuming appropriate 'preparation' is done:
> 
> 1) Does a good solid stain typically 'outlast' an equally good semi-transparent stain'?
> 
> 2) Is it so that oil-based stains (specifically solid stains) 'last longer' than water based stains?
> 
> 3) Even if 'maintained' decently, is it inevitable that a solid stain will eventually peel or flake?
> 
> 4) What are the main disadvantages of a solid (oil-based) stain?
> 
> I'm hoping there's a forum member who has broad enough experience on the subject (far more than I do) to help me out. Thanks!


Solid stains will typicly hold the color longer, but you can always put a solid stain over a semi-transparent stain if the semi doesn't look right. Putting a semi over a solid stain doesn't do much. Semi-transparent stains are better for decks anyways as they don't show the traffic/walking areas as much as solid stains tend to wear away looking more like a semi-transparent in high traffic areas. Solid stains are better for the side of a house. Both are very maintinance friendly as they won't peel and when they fade, just slap on another coat. All bets are off if you use latex. The color may last longer in a latex stain, but it will be in nice little chips that have come up and fallen through the gaps in your boards. You can pop you head under the deck and say "wow, that Latex Stain really held the color" :thumbup:


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## bdionne

Sikkens is the best!! A new neighbor recommended it to us after we asked him what he used. It is the only stuff he will use. And he only
owns wood-sided houses.
We had the same problem you had- but we built a new deck when we 
put an addition on. After using the Sikkens, we have every confidence
in it. Get the Sikkens!!!:thumbup:
~Oil-based.


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## gma2rjc

What stores sell the Sikkens? I couldn't find their website on-line.


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## Scuba_Dave

mpgumm said:


> The sad thing is that I did prep the deck to the tee that behr recommends on the label. I used all Behr prep products. I sanded the deck, cleaned all dust with their prep cleaner, waited four days to dry completly, and did two coats with Behr Deck plus solid latex stain. I used a **** load of stain. It says one gallon will coat 200-400 sq. ft. but it didn't cover that great. I used a lot more than two gallons. So in a way you buy a cheep can of stain, but end up spending more because it doesn't go on great, so you are buying more cans of stain.
> 
> Good news though, I called Behr and complained. They were fighting the claim saying I used too much stain. Just for you to know, if you call to complain, tell them you did everything it told you on the label and that you used the exact amount it told you- because if you don't, they will fight it saying you did it wrong-there for it is your fault. I asked for $300.00 for all the cans of paint, time, supplies, sander, and prep solutions. I have to send in pictures of the can on the deck, pics of the damage, pics of the whole deck, and the upc off of a can. It takes three weeks to process. After complaining how bad of a product it is, they wanted to send a pro out to do my deck with the same stuff I was complaining about. Anyone going through this good luck. My advise, get the money and not another application of a ****ty product!!!! save your upc and or receipt!!!


There is a thread on here about *Behr *by a Behr rep
You should post there

http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/behr-would-like-hear-about-your-experiences-our-paint-41034/


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## Matthewt1970

He's in there. He has the longest post in that thread.


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## Curmudgeon555

mpgumm said:


> I have used Bear plus solid deck stain- two words- stay away! It peeled in places so bad I have to re-do the whole thing. I am looking for the best product so I can get a few years in without having to redo it. I am going with solid because that is what is already there. I need something that will last. I have looked on consumer report.org and they rated Flood Swf solid latex the best- but on all the forums I don't see mention of Flood products- I see a lot of Cabots, SW Deckscapes. Also what is down now is oil-based. Is latex the way to go or do I still use oil-based solid stain. Let me know thank you. (This is for a 20x20 deck)


You NEVER put solid stain on walking surfaces. It is soft skinned and will show wear, peeling and/or cracking within weeks or months.
I have Behr solid stain on the vertical walls of my house (cedar and T1-11 siding) and it has never flaked or cracked in over 10 years!! Yes, it has faded somewhat where hit by the sun for long periods, but otherwise no problem.
I will paint again soon not to cure problems, but to renew the depth of the color.


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