# Vertical or Horizonal & Papertape or Plastic mesh?



## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Age old debate! Ok so I am soon to be hanging three fairly small rooms, (8X10, 8x13 and 12X14) ceiling and walls. I can hang the drywall as well as the next guy but must admit I SUCK at finisihing. Luckily I have a couple buddies that ARE good at it. (beer and pizza rocks) My question is residential hang drywall vertical or horizonal? I have always done vertical, but see alot of people go horizonal on here? (ceilings are 7'6") SHOULD a gap be left at the floor? If so how much? I have used paper tape and mesh, didnt see that much of a difference, but again I SUCK at finishing!

:whistling2:


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

*personal experience*

i personally do it horizontally and use paper tape. always start with the top sheet tight to your ceiling boards and the bottom sheet i leave up to 1" from the rough flooring. this gives me enough room for a pry tool to stand on to press the sheet tightly to the top sheet. the pry tool (if you balance left-right on it) allows for easy adjustment

also, by going horizontally, you can use longer sheets of drywall (if you can get them to the room you are doing. this will mean less seams. 

secret to taping is a thin coat of mud, i pre-cut the tape and pre-fold it for the corners. then i gently press it in with my trowel and coat with a this layer of compound. key is thin... thin means less sanding, less air bubbles, less coats.

good luck.

rod


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Less sanding, air bubbles, less coats IS A GOOD THING! :thumbsup: Thanks


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## stoner529 (Nov 12, 2010)

rditz said:


> i personally do it horizontally and use paper tape. always start with the top sheet tight to your ceiling boards and the bottom sheet i leave up to 1" from the rough flooring. this gives me enough room for a pry tool to stand on to press the sheet tightly to the top sheet. the pry tool (if you balance left-right on it) allows for easy adjustment
> 
> also, by going horizontally, you can use longer sheets of drywall (if you can get them to the room you are doing. this will mean less seams.
> 
> ...



Wow you just pretty much cured the vertical vs horizontal debate with me. I am thinking the only reason people go vertical is because they can do it themselves easier then hanging a 4X12. they are very heavy and it isnt easy doing yourself.

Paper or mesh doesnt matter. Just the mesh saves a step but i have heard you should only use hot mud on mesh and not regular.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

You should definately hang the ceiling horizontal....:yes: takes a lot more sheets to do vertical.

I'm no pro but I like to hand walls vertical, just my preference.


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## stoner529 (Nov 12, 2010)

Jackofall1 said:


> You should definately hand the ceiling horizontal....:yes: takes a lot more sheets to do vertical.
> 
> I'm no pro but I like to hand walls vertical, just my preference.



Well if you are hanging a ceiling you should always go perpendicular to the joists anyway. never parellel.


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

*Ceiling vertical or horizontal??*



Jackofall1 said:


> You should definately hang the ceiling horizontal....:yes: takes a lot more sheets to do vertical.
> 
> I'm no pro but I like to hand walls vertical, just my preference.



That is just TOOOOOO funny... 

it took me a second to get it, but when I did I was laughin'

thanks Jack


rod


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

rditz said:


> That is just TOOOOOO funny...
> it took me a second to get it, but when I did I was laughin'
> thanks Jack
> rod


I had to read that 2x before I got it :laughing:

I have hung walls vertical in the past
Never could get butt joints to look right
Now I have the proper tool for butt joints so I hang horizontal


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> You should definately hang the ceiling horizontal....:yes: takes a lot more sheets to do vertical.
> 
> I'm no pro but I like to hand walls vertical, just my preference.



you would need one heck of a pouch to hold the screws to do it that way... but think of the other benefit... you wouldn't need a lift or tall friends to put them up.... hahaha


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Puts a whole new meaning to a drop ceiling......:wink:


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## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

This is one of those questions that if you asked ten (10) sheet-rock hangers how they do this: You would get ten (10) different answers. 
I was always taught to hang the sheets as "rditz" stated, this would be for wall strength also. I never tried to hand the ceiling "horizontal" though, interesting concept there, "Jackofall1".


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

Thurman said:


> I never tried to hand the ceiling "horizontal" though, interesting concept there, "Jackofall1".


please... send pictures of a ceiling with the drywall vertically installed.. :laughing:

rod


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

I am working on it, the trouble is it keeps falling down, anyone know of any good glue?


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## stoner529 (Nov 12, 2010)

jackofall1 said:


> i am working on it, the trouble is it keeps falling down, anyone know of any good glue?



duh. You ever heard of liquid nails? Sticks great! Watch out for stalagtites


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## redmanblackdog (Jan 7, 2011)

I always go perpendicular to the framing member, few exceptions. First, 5/8" sheetrock over 2' centers on the ceiling, 1/2" can be used over 16" centers. Perpendicular will give it more strength less chance of sagging. Perpendicular on the walls will allow you to be working a seem around most of the room at 4'. Yes you will have butt joints. But you will not be going up and down as much as if you go vertical. I would take the 6" off of the bottom. You can use that scrap sometimes around doors, windows and such. I would keep the gap at the floor between 1/4"and 1/2". Just enough to keep it minimal but with enough tolerance to make it fit simply. To big of a gap and it can cause problems with the baseboard. I would be using 1 1/2" nails when necessary and 1 1/4" screws everywhere else. You can cut the top off of the top sheet going to the ceiling but remember that then your tapered edge of the sheetrock is on the bottom and it may need to be mudded to kill the look of the tapered edge, but if you put in base board molding then that would hide it.

I use only 90 minute or less hot mud over fiberglass tape. My method is to fiberglass the tapered seems and angles (making sure that you push the fiberglass into the angles as best you can with your fingers, because using a knife can slice the tape). Prefill the butts and headers and use taping mud and paper tape on those. If the prefill on the butts and headers are dry then the taping mud (very loose mud) with tape will dry fast, because you will wipe most of that mud out from under the tape. Then mix up a 1/3 of a bucket of hot mud. Start with a few inches of water in the bucket and a half of a bag of hot mud be sure to mix thoroughly but don't over mix. Add water or powder as needed, looking for the mud to fall off of a scoup with your 6" knife in a blob when turned sideways. Thick but easy to work. Be sure and clean all tools between each bucket so the old mud doesn't set up the new!
Do the recessed tapered edged seems first with an 8" knife. Make sure you feather the edges always, but if there are a few that get away from you then scrape it down and fill in with a tight swipe of mud. After you spread the mud on the seem and have feathered the edges and made a pass or two over the seem to even it out, you can check the seem by laying your 8" knife perpendicular to the ceiling across the seem. If you see a line you may need to take a little more off. Better a bit recessed than to have a hump with hot mud. Then I start my angles with a method called north south, east west. Start with either but keep them together. In other words walls opposite of each other not adjacent. If you do north south walls then you will be mudding the east west ceiling angles with them on the first trip around. I use a 4 inch knife here, feather the edge and turn the bottom of the handle in a bit towards the angle as you go. By now your butts and headers should be ready for the second coat. They are done with an 8" knife also. A pass on each side, with feathered edges, leaving a line in the middle. Go easy on the mud here. You again can check the recess that will be caused by the taped joint by holding your 8" knife perpendicular to the sheetrock with one tip on the middle of the taped joint and the other on the sheetrock. Again less is better with hot mud. Once hot mud is dry you can use a 6" knife to scrape ridges and lap marks and any bumps and use a sander after that if needed. I start with the other side of the angles next with mud straight out of the finish mud box (it may need a little thinning but usually it works)and the 4" knife. Once those are done, then thin the mud so a scoup with your six inch knife and then turned sideways will allow two to three drops to fall off. Use your 12 inch knife and do the tapered seems, feathering the edge and making a few passing to even it up. You check it the same way by sticking your knife perpendicular to the sheetrock over the seem to see if more mud needs to come off to keep it flat. If you leave a fine line then you know that you have a little sanding to do. Don't try and make it perfect, thats why you sand and touch at the end. Then last you run your butts and headers. 12" pass on each side, feathering the edges, checking with the knife. The finish mud is more foregiving than hot mud.

There will still be wet mud that gets disturbed as you cross over with the different applications, don't worry, when dry put more mud on.

After its dry, sand and touch up. If you don't like it, sand and touch up some more. A journey man will apply three coats of mud and sand and touch up. You can apply ever what is needed to make the job look good. Oh and buy a sponge sander from Home Depot, fine grit. Never use to coarse of sandpaper or screens.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I
> I have hung walls vertical in the past
> Never could get butt joints to look right
> l


why do you have butt joints with vertical? Unless you are running taller than you can get drywall, you will have no butt joints with vertical if you plan your installation right. 

and shame on you guys for not being able to hang a 4X12X 5/8" sheet of drywall by yourself. It only weighs 105 pounds. Sounds like some of you guys need some Wheaties!! :laughing:


and for typical joints, always use paper tape. It resists shifting between the joined sheets and helps prevent cracks.


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Thank you EVERYONE for your input, I have picked up quite a bit of information from this thread. (A special thank to Redmanblackdog, that was an excellent writeup :thumbup HOPEFULLY I will be starting this weekend! Will post pics!

:thumbsup:


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

Looking at the size of your rooms there is no need for a vertical joint anywhere except the inside corners. Count your blessings and go horizontal there is not only less lineal footage of taping a horizontal mid height joint is just easier to tape and fill. That is both by hand and with tape machines and mud boxes.
The only time we do vertical is in commercial with 5/8". For fire code regulations the joint must land on a solid surface. For your 7'6" odd ceiling heights chek out the Wallboarder's Buddy to rip all the sheets down. I had some guys using it with odd ceiling heights and a stack of 54" X 12' drywall. They did the whole house with it. 
With your situation put the cut sheet on the bottom and jam them up with a pannel lifter 1/2" off the floor. That way there is no tapered edge to throw the angle off for the baseboard instalation


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

masterofall said:


> Looking at the size of your rooms there is no need for a vertical joint anywhere except the inside corners. Count your blessings and go horizontal there is not only less lineal footage of taping a horizontal mid height joint is just easier to tape and fill. That is both by hand and with tape machines and mud boxes.
> The only time we do vertical is in commercial with 5/8". For fire code regulations the joint must land on a solid surface. For your 7'6" odd ceiling heights chek out the Wallboarder's Buddy to rip all the sheets down. I had some guys using it with odd ceiling heights and a stack of 54" X 12' drywall. They did the whole house with it.
> With your situation put the cut sheet on the bottom and jam them up with a pannel lifter 1/2" off the floor. That way there is no tapered edge to throw the angle off for the baseboard instalation


Makes perfect sense to me! Cheers


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

I do have a question for all the horizontal guys.


what is the support provided for the joint that is between the studs? It would appear that is simply a free floating joint and would be susceptible to pressure that could cause damage. While drywall is rigid, it surely isn't so rigid it can't be made to flex when pressure is applied.


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

are you referring to the horizontal seam between the sheets?? the drywall is more than rigid enough for a 16" or 24" span.

rod


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## redmanblackdog (Jan 7, 2011)

The rolled paper on a tapered edge is the added strength, going horizontally or perpendicular to the members. Sheetrock isn't strong enough on the butt end for those spans, a butt joint should be breaking on a framing member.

Masterofall was right, commercial is the only time they use vertical for shear support and fire. Not needed on a Residential application. Except where you can save board or time.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Horizontal with mesh on the flats and paper on the angles (corners).:thumbsup:
And as previously stated. Only use quick set mud with the fiberglass mesh tape (first coat only).:yes:


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