# Need a Little Help from the Computer Smart People Out There



## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a Toshiba R830-S8330 with Windows 7. 

I go this computer from my neighbor quite a few years ago. I let her talk me into accepting it as payment for building her a deck.

It has served me well. I don't have great needs. I mostly surf DIY sites and a little email. Occasionally I buy some thing from Amazon. Not much, I'm old and poor.

I wasn't very smart. I let her talk me into this deal even though she didn't have (couldn't find) the system disk.

Now I'm pretty sure that my hard drive is going bad. I can tell by the sound when it starts up at times. I am also getting notices of corrupt files occasional. Of course I am assuming that the hard drive is the only thing in there that has to spin up. 

I can buy a new hard drive I guess but I am told that there is no way to save the system (Windows 7) to load on the new hard drive. 

If I have to purchase a new system, what is the best version to suit my limited needs and where is best place to purchase.

I don't know what a comparable lap top computer cost these days but pretty sure it is considerably more that hard drive and system disk.

I helped you fix your toilet, how about a little advice and guidance from you.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

First, before you do anything else, make a backup copy of all of your data files: documents, emails, photos, etc, whatever you cannot recreate if your hard drive crashes. Back it up to a USB drive or DVD disks, etc. You don't want to lose anything important if indeed your hard drive fails tomorrow.

That done, open My Computer and right-click on the drive. Click Properties than Tools, and run the Check disk. Report back here what results you get.
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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

OK, will do. I don't keep anything, data, photo, tax returns or anything else on the computer it all goes to USB drives.

Granted I have a few temporary files on desk top but nothing of any significant.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

OK clicked on MY Computer, Right clicked on C drive opened Properties went to Tools, Clicked on Error checking. 
Got message,
"Windows cannot check files when in use."


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

You can "clone" the existing drive to a new one. Or you can make an image of the existing drive with a program like Norton Ghost. 
Clone or an image is an exact copy of the drive and when installed on a new drive will function just like the original on the day of imaging.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> You can "clone" the existing drive to a new one. Or you can make an image of the existing drive with a program like Norton Ghost.
> Clone or an image is an exact copy of the drive and when installed on a new drive will function just like the original on the day of imaging


That is what I was hoping to hear. I will try to educate my self on Norton Ghost.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Looks like I can schedule a check and then restart computer to allow it to do system check.
Going to do that now.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

OK, scheduled a system check, shut computer down and restated.

Computer began doing system check, then said that it could not open a file (or module) because of recently installed software.

Gave me instructions on how to restore system to before that software change was made. I'll have to redo and write down its instructions. 
I may just attempt to do a restore. I do that periodically (about every six months) just to get rid of any virus I may have picked up. Usually takes me several hours.

Probably wait till tomorrow morning, While it is doing its thing, I can turn a pepper mill. That will probably be more productive anyway.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Sometimes the system disk is stored on the hard drive in a hidden folder. There may be a way to burn an image of that partition.

Winows 7 oem versions are on Ebay for under $40 including shipping. As long as it come with a COA, installs and registers it's legal. Some are brand specific so ask here before you buy.

You need to know hard drive size and type, brand name of computer and whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit. You may be able it install a larger drive.

Questions???


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

There should be no need to buy another COA/license. The one that originally came with the computer is still valid. He just needs the installation media or an image. If the disk is still functional, he should be able create that image.
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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Remember, a system restore will wipe out any data or programs that were installed after the computer was bought, so make sure you do that backup Z suggested. You may not have any data but there may have been some applications downloaded after the computer was setup. They are most likely in the "Download" folder.

To clone the drive, MacriumReflect is an easy to use free utility and can run within windows. What this means is you do not have to use a special boot disk to run it. Just make sure the new hard drive is the same size or larger than the original.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Here is my plan. With your approval

I have copied all the junk on my desk top to a USB. This is just junk stuff that doesn't really matter. As previously stated all data is stored on USB drives.

I will go out later an purchase two Sandisk 128G 3.0 USB drives.

I will shortly do a system restore. This takes a bit of time primarily because Windows 7 is so old that it takes a lot of time to be updated. I usually do this about every 6 months just on general principle.

While that is happening I am going to turn a pepper mill. I have some Ash that I recently cut and have made several pepper mills. They look OK but nothing remarkable. I think Celtic knots would enhance their appearance greatly.

I have several blanks that are drying. The wife has just left for church. While she is gone I am going to sneak up and use the microwave to dry them.

After restoring the system I will try to make a couple system images using Ghost or MacriumReflect.

Then I will begin looking for new hard drive. Present hard drive is 103 GB with 59.6 used and 43.8 free space. Present hard drive has not acted up in a while. Maybe it fixed itself.

Let me know what you think.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

If you are going to the trouble of replacing the HD, look at Solid State hard drives. They have no mechanical parts and are ultra-fast compared to mechanical drives. 

Not endorsing this particular drive, just an example of what is out there.

https://www.staples.com/PNY-120GB-CS1311-SSD-2-5-SATA-III/product_2039142
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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Interesting, very interesting, probably go that route. Surprised at the low price.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

hkstroud said:


> Interesting, very interesting, probably go that route. Surprised at the low price.


Yes, just like everything else in the world of technology, prices keep dropping and dropping.

My first computer, a primitive VIC-20, cost more than my latest laptop, with literally a million times the capabilities. :biggrin2:
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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes, you probably won't believe me, due to my ignorance on the subject, but I was once a computer operator, then programmer, then analyst, then bureaucrat. That was on old main frame computers. When I retired PC were just toys that people put their recipes on. I should have keep up with the technology but I was tired, primarily tired of the bureaucracy. Carpentry, cabinet making, plumbing and electricity was more fun.

The first computer I worked on (IBM 305) was as big as a room, read about sixty cards a minute, punched 80, printed 120 lines per minute. The disk drive was as big as an oil drum.

That was a long time ago, now I'm lost.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Yup, I did the punchcard and greenbar thing for 10 years on IBM mainframes and then graduated to IBM's "minicomputer", System 36.
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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

A system restore is NOT the same thing as a clone or an image of the drive. A clone or image can not be run from within the existing operating system. It must be run from a boot CD or Thumb drive in order for the hard drive to be not in use. Then EVERYTHING is copied exactly as it is to the new drive and it boots exactly like the old one.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

joed said:


> A clone or image can not be run from within the existing operating system. It must be run from a boot CD or Thumb drive in order for the hard drive to be not in use. Then EVERYTHING is copied exactly as it is to the new drive and it boots exactly like the old one.


MacriumReflect does run within Windows. I have used it numerous times and it clones ALL selected partitions providing the new drive is an equal or larger drive than the original.

Here is a video that demonstrates how to do it;


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

I did a restore to factory software, used space on hard drive went from 59 gigs to 29 gigs. 

Down loaded MacriumReflect and executed.

Wouldn't let me clone hard drive to USB but was able to do a system image to USB. At least I think I did.

Ordering SSD and USB adapter. If I understand video correctly I will be able to clone from HDD to SSD, remove HDD insert SSD. 

Will it be that simple?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It should be.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

joed said:


> A system restore is NOT the same thing as a clone or an image of the drive. A clone or image can not be run from within the existing operating system. It must be run from a boot CD or Thumb drive in order for the hard drive to be not in use. Then EVERYTHING is copied exactly as it is to the new drive and it boots exactly like the old one.


Windows, has a service called shadowcopy. It allows for the live cloning of the system. 

OP. Your current plan sounds good. Using the image on the USB will work just fine. Make sure that you have the right connections before buying the drive. It'll be a SATA connector that you need. The cables are typically red and fairly thin. (about 1/2" across verses the 2" of the PATA/IDE cables.) 

Cheers!


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

OK, got my SSD, a 120 GB SSD. Apparently that is not big enough. 

When I tried to clone the hard drive it came up with three partitions.
1 - System 1.46 GB,
2 - TI106174000000WOD (C) 103.46 GB
3 - HDDREcpvery 14.32 GB.

That totals 119.24 GB

Apparently the 120 GB SSD has only 111.79 GB of space. 

Get error "Not enough space"


Don't understand that.

Clicking properties on my C drives show 103 GB

Guess I'll be out tomorrow for a larger SSD.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The partitions are the sizes you stated but are they full? I am betting the 103 GB C: drive could be made smaller on the new drive.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Question

Is it the norm for a 120 GB SSD to have only 111.74 GB of space?
Would I be justified in returning as unsatisfactory?


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> The partitions are the sizes you stated but are they full? I am betting the 103 GB C: drive could be made smaller on the new drive.


No, they are not full.
How would I do that?


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

hkstroud said:


> Question
> 
> Is it the norm for a 120 GB SSD to have only 111.74 GB of space?
> Would I be justified in returning as unsatisfactory?



Raw space on a drive is always less than formatted space. The fine print tells you that. My 1 TB drive after formatting only has 931 GB of usable space. Usable space varies slightl by brand and operating system.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> Raw space on a drive is always less than formatted space


Thanks. That is what I suspected. Of course I don't really care except unless I can get the required space down I will have to buy another SSD.

Indications are that the system really only requires about 30 gigs. Never anticipate this.

I hate my ignorance.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Just a comment and COMPLIMENT on this thread (from a technologically ignorent old F)....

For all the tech instructions/explanations that I sometimes have to read, this is one of the few that makes sense and is understandable to a laymen.

Thanks


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a plan.

Comments please.

I am going to save off the install of Macrium Reflect to USB.

Do another restore to factory software. In that restore I will reduce the TI106174000000WOD (C) 103.46 GB partition to something like 95 GB.

Then try to clone the hard drive again. 
That should reduce the space requirements. 
Hope that I don't loose Macrium Reflect since as I understand it is temporary one time download.

Moisture content of pepper mill blanks are almost down to 12 percent. While this restore is going on I will to the Celtic knots.

Right now I going to look at a roof leak. 

Please give me comments before I screw up.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

hkstroud said:


> I have a plan.
> 
> Comments please.
> 
> ...


Grab a beer and put your feet up HK.... It's Ok... we just have to learn how.

Best


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

I want to say thanks to everyone.

You can go ahead and laugh. I want to say being stupid isn't easy, but you can laugh anyway.

I did my plan. I did a restore to factory settings. I reduce the partition of the C drive to 90 GB. I did the restore. I then had four partitions where as before I had three. However one partition was blank of course.

I was then able to do the clone by dragging the three partitions to the SSD. All indications were that it was successful. 

Now I have to physically put this SSD in the laptop. I open up the drive compartment but what I see doesn't look like what I expected. There is no physically spinning disk.

It takes me a couple of minutes to figure out, I already have SSD, not HDD.

I also see what Super05 meant by



> The cables are typically red and fairly thin. (about 1/2" across verses the 2" of the PATA/IDE cables.)


So now I'm stumped. What is this sound that I have been hearing that sounds like a motor spinning up or trying to spin up. In fact I have been hearing it while doing the restore. The noise is coming from the upper right of the keyboard. Couldn't be the SSD it is in the upper middle of the keyboard. There is a fan under the lower left of the keyboard. What is in that area the could be moving? Should be all electronic components.

I start looking through Toshiba information files. In utilities I come across a Temperature Checking tool. I decide to run it. 

It tells me to plug in the AC, open the lid and don't touch anything. It take about 20 minutes to run.

OK, I click next. I hear a fan start running. At first it sounds just like the noise I have been hearing. Like a motor spinning up and straining a little bit. It is also in the upper right of the keyboard. After a few minutes the sound kind of smoothed out a bit. 

When the Temperature Tool is finished I get out the vacuum cleaner and vacuumed every vent hole. I still had the memory and SSD compartments open, I vacuumed them also.

I ran the Temperature Tool again. Sounded better this time. I took the lap top to the shop and blew compressed air in every vent hole. I ran Temperature Tool again. This time the sound was pretty much normal for a fan. A little louder than I would expect but pretty much normal.

So I guess that there is an internal fan up in that area that doesn't run very often and was having a hard time.

Don't know why I haven't ever heard it before.

All this time wasted. 

Anybody interested in a SanDisk 120 GB SSD and USB adapter cord real cheap?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Anything worth learning will cost time or money.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I have to clean my fan and heatsink every couple of years. I guess that might be a reflection on our housekeeping skills.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Some laptops 2 fans. Most these days will modulate the fan according to temperature. They try to be as silent as possible, even if that means a 70-90*C computer. (both desktops and laptops.) As dust builds up over time, eventually it hits a point were out throws the fan off balance and it kicks around a bit. Cleaning them will help usually, but once in a while the bearings are shot and the whole thing needs to be replaced.

PS. For some strange reason, I thought that you had a desktop. Silly me. It wouldn't have too many cables inside, but the connectors are still relevant. 

Cheers!


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes, it is a lap top. It has been quite lately, except when I run the Temperature Tool.

I have been considering opening it up to clean. Kind of scary considering delicate parts.


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