# 18x18 Travertine Stone Tile Install...



## Hages

Hi All,

1. Is it necessary to thinset mortar the 1/4" fiber-cement subfloor onto the plywood (new construction) subfloor? 

I was planning to staple the fiber-cement with 1" staples Then lay the travertine tiles over white thinset with 1/4" notched trowel.

2. I prefer no grout lines on the travertine tiles...is it possible or wise? Maybe at the most a 1/16" spacing?

Thanks for the advice,
Rod


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## cibula11

I have asked tiles guys about applying thinset to the back of the cement board. They have told me it is not necessary. But, I would not staple, but screw the backerboard to the floor. There are special screws for this. You can have no grout lines, but I would think that it would be better to ensure that no water or dirt gets between the cracks. Small grout lines that blend with the color of tile works the best.


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## billinak

I think this is classic case of Do It Right The First Time. Thinset is cheap, takes minutes to mix and apply, and adds rigidity to your installation. Use the screws that are specifically made for cement board, again, they are inexpensive, and will penetrate the backerboard far more easily than any less expensive substitute. If this is new construction, there is no reason to cut corners. You definitely want grout between the tiles so that the entire installation can be sealed against moisture, or you could use an epoxy grout and skip the sealing stage.


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## HJ1

Bedding the board in thinset is not optional. If you go to the website for the fiber cement board you are using and go to their installation page you will see that its required, not optional. Skipping this step will result in failure over a few short years.

If you will be installing travertine you will need a minimum of two layers of plywood totalling 1 1/4" underneath the fiber cement board. You can not get away with one layer of plywood with natural stone. Your floor must also meet deflection of L720 for natural stone. This is twice the requirement for ceramic tile. What size are your joists, what is their on center spacing and what is their unsupported span from below. What is the subfloor, plywood? OSB? How thick and how many layers?


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## Hages

HJ1 said:


> Bedding the board in thinset is not optional. If you go to the website for the fiber cement board you are using and go to their installation page you will see that its required, not optional. Skipping this step will result in failure over a few short years.
> 
> If you will be installing travertine you will need a minimum of two layers of plywood totalling 1 1/4" underneath the fiber cement board. You can not get away with one layer of plywood with natural stone. Your floor must also meet deflection of L720 for natural stone. This is twice the requirement for ceramic tile. What size are your joists, what is their on center spacing and what is their unsupported span from below. What is the subfloor, plywood? OSB? How thick and how many layers?


USG Fiberock allows stapling to subfloor without thinset mortar:

*http://tinyurl.com/3dlonx
*
Thanks for clueing me to check the manufacturers recommendation. I will double-check the joists and make sure it can handle the weight of the flooring. Good point! 

I was wondering why it is necessary to mortar in the subfloor if something like stone tile will be set into it since the stuff weighs a ton and the floor ain't going anywhere. 

My goof was to get $3/sqft travertine...so many of the tiles have nasty imperfections and fill-ins. Never again!


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## HJ1

I just read your link. Read the top of page 7. You do need to bed the board in thinset. Bedding the board in thinset fills any voids that may exist between the subfloor and the underlayment. Not doing it is almost a guarantee that it will fail in the future.


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## HJ1

A couple more things. I don't use fiberrock so I'm not familiar with it. I'll make a couple suggestions though. Do no use type I organic adhesive as they suggest on a floor. Mastic should never be used on a floor. Use thinset. Also the staples thing doesnt sit right with me. Use backerboard screws or galvanized roofing nails to secure the board. Just my 2 cents.


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## Hages

HJ1 said:


> I just read your link. Read the top of page 7. You do need to bed the board in thinset. Bedding the board in thinset fills any voids that may exist between the subfloor and the underlayment. Not doing it is almost a guarantee that it will fail in the future.


Okay, it is under LAMINATION. I missed that!

Guess I will have to rip up one bathroom underlayment....shoot.

I am wondering what kind of "failure" will happen, out of curiosity.

Thanks for the heads up :thumbup:


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## HJ1

Typically grout starts to crack and come loose in around a year or so. You can also have cracking tile after a period of time. Being that you are spending time and serious money to do this, better to do it over now and do it right.:thumbsup:


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## R&D Tile

Like stated above, if that floor doesn't meet specs for stone, don't even think about installing it, do not butt them, use at least a 1/32" joint, 1/4" trowel won't do it either, you need at least a 3/8" one, you'll have to backbutter every tile with the flat side of the trowel as you set them, notched side on the floor, that floor better be dead flat or you'll have problems.:whistling2:


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## BobBob

*Travertine installation on an outside patio*

I laid some travertine on a 18' X 15' patio. We dug down 6" and put 4" of processed, tamped gravel down. I followed that with 2" of sand that also was tamped down. I layed the tiles butt to butt ( with no grout space) as was suggested in numerous arcticles. I tamped the tiles down with a rubber mallet. We had a heavy rain the next day and now have several that rock. Should I have given them some space between tiles?


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## R&D Tile

And you did this with travertine tiles?:no:

They should have been motared to a concrete slab.:yes:


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## BobBob

*I followed the attached recommendation*

Below is the url of one of the sites that recommended that the tiles be laid in sand alone.

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/gf_design/article/0,2029,DIY_13832_4482151,00.html


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## R&D Tile

How thick is your travertine?, by the way, that site is a joke.:laughing:


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## BobBob

*Why a joke?*

Why do you believe that the site is a joke? 
The tile is around 1/2 to 3/4 " thick.


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## R&D Tile

Alot of misinformation or not complete info to do the job correctly, at least when it comes to tiling.:no:

IMHO, I would never set 1/2" stone in sand, will always move, should be mortared or thinsetted to a concrete base, Concrete & Brick pavers are 2"+ thick and lock in place, they can be installed over a sand base.

If they rock, there's space under them and not 100% flat in the sand, lift the ones that rock and reset them, hope it helps.


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## bobloj

*18 by 18 tile*

Hey- does anyone know the best tool to cut 18 by 18 inch tile...i went to home depot but their rental equip. only cuts up to 12by 12 tile...thanks


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## JazMan

Home Depot....try a real tile shop. You might have to take them to a stone fabricator since the saw you'll need is kinda pricey to find at many rental stores.

Jaz


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## Hages

bobloj said:


> Hey- does anyone know the best tool to cut 18 by 18 inch tile...i went to home depot but their rental equip. only cuts up to 12by 12 tile...thanks


Home Depot sells a cheapy tile tablesaw unit for around $100 and I did all my cuts with it. You can cut any size tile with since it is like a table saw. For a DIY it is okay, but not super accurate or that convenient. It got the job done.


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