# WW Recommending 4000 instead of 6000?? Hmmm



## lucky8926 (Feb 19, 2009)

I've been researching my butt of lately trying to decide on which windows to go with in my house. I've debated me putting them in vs having someone else do it and although i'm capable of doing it myself the minimal price of labor vs how long it would take me to do it made having someone else do the install come out as the winner. 
I've narrowed it down to Window World and one other local company. I know some of you out there don't like Window World and i've read all the complaints but i've done my research (lots and lots of it) and it seems most people that don't like them are their competitors and most people that are actual customers liked them and the windows themselves, which after more research come to find out are Alside windows which get more thumbs up than thumbs down. 
So now that i've given you some background so this doesn't turn into a go with this window/company instead thread here is the latest question....
I wanted the salesman to find out if the 4000 series would meet the requirements for the new window efficiency tax incentive or whatever it's called, basically the window has to have a U-Facor of .30 or less (which some of you probably already know) He said that has obviously been something the company has started to research since before it only had to be .35 or less. He told me today that the 4000 will meet .30 if they do a different Low-E coating (nothing is in writing yet, but he said he will get with me as soon as it is) but that will raise the cost to $33 more a window. I can get the 6000 Series for $35 more which is their step up and he explained it as a heavier frame window that wasn't really necessary where I live (Central Illinois) which is why he still recommends the 4000. He said the 6000 is mainly used where the temperatures are extreme for long periods of time ie: Maine, Minnesota, Arizona, Texas etc etc. 
So....... i'm still a little curious as to why he is recommending the 4000 over the 6000 since it will be more $$ for him and the company granted it's only $2 more a window x's 19 windows = $38 but hey money is money. Is he veering me toward the cheaper because he gets more of a cut or is it because he actually thinks it's overkill in my area..... 
What do you all think????


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

They pay less for the thinner frame model even with the upgraded glass package, therefore he'll probably make more money. I would caution you against going with the 4000 series. I sell the same windows (under a different name) and the manufacturer told me that none of there products with the thinner frame will qualify, and even as the thicker framed model, some sizes won't qualify with regular Lo-E and Argon. I am only guaranteeing to my customers that the thicker framed unit with LO-E2 will qualify, nothing less...Although I've seen several people that are only guaranteeing triple-pane....The fact is that window manufacturers were blindsided by this new requirement, so while they scramble to figure which of their models will qualify, I'd rather be safe than sorry come tax time....Or wait until it is all sorted out, and the manufacturers will provide written certification statements.


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## lucky8926 (Feb 19, 2009)

You know what, that makes sense. The 4000 costs less for them to produce and doesn't cost a whole lot less therefore their profit on it is greater than the 6000..... I'm defiantly getting it in writing that whatever window I purchase qualifies. That is what he is supposed to get back to me, once they have something in writing that says the 4000 with the extra coat of Low-E will qualify. Still I'm not convinced that I should go with it. His reasoning for it didn't really sell me on the idea that I would be better off with the 4000. Why wouldn't you spend $2 more for the next better window???
HomeSealed, you don't recommend the 4000 either way, what are your thoughts on the 6000?? Is it a good window?


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## fricandfrac (Feb 12, 2009)

*Same boat..*

Thank goodness for you lucky1926...I'm in very similar spot as you...I also have researched and researched the "window" thing. Thank you for your thread... I was close to purchasing the simonton window, now Im following your two threads very closly because I dont think any "window web site" will be as effective as these experenced people that help out on this site. Thank you all !!!!!Lucky,( not to be confusing)but have you looked into Simonson windows? 2006 they won that J.D.poweres award, but not since?In your other window thread, someone did mention this as a good window one time.???


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## lucky8926 (Feb 19, 2009)

Fricandfrac, you're welcome!! I'm a "researchaholic" when I'm putting a lot of $$ into something I tend to spend hours and hours and hours online checking reviews, recomendations, and everything in between. I just hate to spend a lot of hard earned money on something to find out it's junk. Shoot it took me 3 weeks to decide which LCD TV to buy and about the same for a vacuum cleaner!!! I'm confident I made the right choice though. My girlfriend always says she knows we are going to get the best quality of almost anything because i'm so "researchy" LOL I'll tell ya what you stick with me and you will get a thoroughly researched product. I have noticed that sometimes you can't rely on some people in these forums either, since some of them work for a particular company that obviously makes them biased and you can't get a true opinion because any window other than the one they install/sell is junk or not as good as theirs. _**HomeSealed i'm not talking about you...LOL**_
As for Simonton windows, yes they have been very highly talked about in almost every forum i've been in. If I was putting windows in a house I planned on staying in for longer than 5-7 years like my plans are for this one I would go with Simonton. Most peoples opinion of any particular window i've checked into is usually 50% good 50% bad, or worse but Simonton seems to have more good ratings than any other window i've read about so far.... Hope that helps


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## fricandfrac (Feb 12, 2009)

Lucky, thanks for your note..I also am researching myself to death. Ive lost hours going site to site:from one window forum to the other. I would be alittle careful about the thought of not getting a "better" window because your not going to be there but 5-7 years. With the way things are going...that might slip into more years then you'd hope. That's what happened here. boooooooo.So that's why Ive went from American craftmen from(home d----)to trying to find a "decent" vinyl window. I will be following your journey closely, and thanks to ALL.


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## lucky8926 (Feb 19, 2009)

I think the research becomes addicting after a while! LOL don't worry I'm not going to settle fir just any ol window just because I'm only planning on being here 5-7 years. I know in this economy the housing market and financial situation could be bad for many more years to come and go past my estimated time frame. That's why I'm going with a good middle of the road window, actually right now I'm considering an upper middle of the road with the WW 6000 which is as mentioned before the same as the Alside Sheffeld. I just can't justify spending $4000-$6000 more for the best windows since this isn't going to be my last home and new windows will only show a certain profit when you sell a house and it's definately not an extra $10000-$12000. So right now one of my considering factors is price spent vs future profit when I sell. Whatever window I get will have to have a lifetime warranty so if something DOES go bad with them, I'm covered. The rep from Window World told me on Friday he should know something from Corporate about the 4000 meeting the new standards and if the price is going to be different. I'll be sure to post the news for everyone. 
I'll be following your progress too and hopefully we will be able to help each other out along with all the knowledgeable people on these forums!!


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

lucky8926 said:


> You know what, that makes sense. The 4000 costs less for them to produce and doesn't cost a whole lot less therefore their profit on it is greater than the 6000..... I'm defiantly getting it in writing that whatever window I purchase qualifies. That is what he is supposed to get back to me, once they have something in writing that says the 4000 with the extra coat of Low-E will qualify. Still I'm not convinced that I should go with it. His reasoning for it didn't really sell me on the idea that I would be better off with the 4000. Why wouldn't you spend $2 more for the next better window???
> HomeSealed, you don't recommend the 4000 either way, what are your thoughts on the 6000?? Is it a good window?


I wouldn't say that I don't recommend the 4000/Excalibur at all. I would just say it is a better idea to go with a thicker framed unit if the cost isn't that far off.... What they are waiting for is a certification statement from Alside on which windows are guaranteed to qualify, and I really don't forsee the 4000 making the cut even with the extra coat of Lo-E. Some sizes will make it, but larger windows and sliders probably won't...Also, just FYI, the cost of an Alside unit compared to a Simonton or Great Lakes is not very far off. If you are getting quotes that are thousands apart, it is because of the contractor, not the actual window cost. I've used all three brands and I feel that they are all quality products, the Alsides realistically probably run like $10-$20 cheaper. I'm not trying to turn you away from the Alside product because I do like it(especially the 6000/Sheffield), however if you REALLY like Simonton better, you should be able to find someone to install them for you at a price that is not all that much higher than WW.


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## lucky8926 (Feb 19, 2009)

Thats kind of what I was thinking, why wouldn't I go with the better window since it's only $2 more a window. I'll still wait and see what he has to say about the 4000 and their certification though. I'll also be sure to ask if the cert is for ALL sizes since our windows are pretty big (most are around 30"x60")
As for the Simonton the only quote i've recieved on them was from HD. They said they're Simonton windows but it has their name on it. The quote was around $4000 more than the price for WW 6000's would be. He quoted me the best one they offer too so of course it was going to be a little higher but the next step lower was still around $3500 more than the 6000's. I haven't actually touched bases with any contractors, only window companies. 
I'm glad you mentioned something about Great lakes, the first quote I got was from a local company and that was the window they install. I hadn't really considered them since I couldn't find much about Great Lakes windows good or bad. No info is sometimes worse than bad info in my opinion.. So what is your take on them???


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

IMHO, I think that Great Lakes is an excellent window and the best of the three. That being said, from a product standpoint, none of them will leave you disappointed as far as performance or warranty. The main factor that you need to consider is the installation, as it will directly affect the operation and performance of the windows. Inspect previous installations by whatever company you choose. Talk to past clients, check certifications, etc. Simple things such as how clean they keep they work space, worker appearance,etc, seem trivial, but it is often indicative of the amount of pride they take in their work, and therefore the quality of the finished product.


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## fricandfrac (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks for the info.!!!!!! Very reassuring to get at least the "window" choices down to a few,:yes: VERY helpful for me.


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