# Need Advice: Someone Ran into our Garage Door



## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

I suspect your insurance claim deductable will be more than $400.

I can see both sides of the story. 

In realty....unless there is obvious damage to the rails.....just let him replace the panels....I'm sure the hinges and rails are ok....if not, it will be obvious when they are doing the work.

Just make sure your there while he is doing the work.


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> I suspect your insurance claim deductable will be more than $400


I don't think so. Their aoto insurance would pay, and you probably would not be out a dime.

Quit fooling around, and call your insurance company. That'll also get the other party in line real fast.


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## Doorman54 (Feb 22, 2012)

Make sure the door operates properly manually before he leaves. 
Different panels sometimes are a different weight. This can affect the "balance" of the door. 
Hinges, rollers, etc are stocked on the truck. They do vary in price from .50-$2.00 cost per item.


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## tvanharp (Mar 10, 2011)

Doorman54 said:


> Make sure the door operates properly manually before he leaves.
> Different panels sometimes are a different weight. This can affect the "balance" of the door.
> Hinges, rollers, etc are stocked on the truck. They do vary in price from .50-$2.00 cost per item.


I would have them do the repair, but as stated by doorman54 the weight of the panels would be a factor especially if it required replacing the springs. Just make sure once complete you can open and close the door with one hand, that will verify the spring tension and that it glides smooth. Also verify that the door quality matches or exceeds the damaged one.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

That's why you should always go through their insurance. use your estimates.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Let the guy for $400 do the work. If the door does not operate properly when he is finished do not sign off on the work order. Then go to plan "B"

I do not know how old the door was but in reality you are not entitled to a brand new garage door. You may be only entitled to the value of the 3 damaged panels plus install costs. Look at it that way.

Try and keep the peace in the neighborhood. No sense in starting a feud over a few hundred dollars BUt if the husband is totally unreasonable then you have to do what you have to do. But from the sound of your scenario he does not sound all that unreasonable.


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

hammerlane said:


> Try and keep the peace in the neighborhood. No sense in starting a feud over a few hundred dollars BUt if the husband is totally unreasonable then you have to do what you have to do. But from the sound of your scenario he does not sound all that unreasonable.


The husband kind of drew a line in the sand, and is acting more than a little hardnose. I'd just throw it right at their insurance company



lv123 said:


> I spoke with the husband again and tried to explain we were not happy that the amount of work was not the same and we felt there was a conflict of interest here. He said, "He's doing it for $400, you can either take me up on this or I'll give you $400 and you can use whoever you want." We spoke for a few minutes and I ended the call before things escalated.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Anti-wingnut said:


> The husband kind of drew a line in the sand, and is acting more than a little hardnose. I'd just throw it right at their insurance company


 
Not a line in the sand. Its called a counter-offer.

I guess by totally unreasonable I meant if he brought over some duct tape to try and fix it


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## lv123 (Oct 23, 2010)

hammerlane said:


> Not a line in the sand. Its called a counter-offer.
> 
> I guess by totally unreasonable I meant if he brought over some duct tape to try and fix it


You guys sound as torn between you as I am inside... The guy isn't a neighbor directly, but they live in our neighborhood (a few blocks away)

It was very clearly not a counter-offer, but his final and only option. He took a very combative tone and I said, "If you're going to act like this, we'll just take your insurance infromation and let them deal with it." To which he replied, "Your insurance would cover it, not ours." - Which is completely false and he knew it. If he refuses to provide his info, I would use my homeowner's insurance, but they would go after his insurance in the end anyway. In the end, I would not be out any money and it would not count as a claim against me.

Here are my major concerns:
1 - Husband was being a jerk from the start. At first he said 'we could pound some of this out'. Then made me go get quotes only to say 'I have a friend'
2 - His friend is a *commercial* shop that's 90 minutes away. What happens if something breaks on day 2? I'm fairly confident I'll never see him again. Even if there's a contract, he knows and I know I won't take legal action to get him back here when I could pay a few hundred to get it fixed without the hassle.
3 - The friend came to look at the door and said, "No hinges or rollers are bent." When I questioned him, he reiterated none were bent and said they keep them in the truck. Which is fine, however, if he doesn't have the attention to detail to see clearly bent rollers, hinges, and even completely _snapped_ hinges, do I trust him to replace hinges that are not so obviously damaged? He also said 'no lock' on the new door, when there is very clearly a lock on the existing door. I questioned that as well, and he said they'd move the lock over.

If everything operates 'smoothly' on day 1, am I 'guaranteed' it's a quality install for the long haul? That's my only test? I don't know anything about garage doors, so I'm really not sure here. I realize it's not a lifetime guarantee, don't get me wrong, but there are plenty of times 'good at first' does not mean 'good in the long haul' in other areas (i.e., plumbing, HVAC, etc.).


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## Doorman54 (Feb 22, 2012)

You pose quite a few excellent points.
Does the door currently work? Might be worth letting the insurance companies hash it out. 
Was there a police report? I'm under the impression that auto insurance companies need a police report.....I could be wrong. 

Typically when it comes to a section/sections replacement....it's gonna work or it's not. You'll know as soon as you lift the door from the floor to full open.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

lv123 said:


> 3 - The friend came to look at the door and said, "No hinges or rollers are bent." When I questioned him, he reiterated none were bent and said they keep them in the truck.


how about posting some photos of the damage areas


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## lv123 (Oct 23, 2010)

Doorman54 said:


> You pose quite a few excellent points.
> Does the door currently work? Might be worth letting the insurance companies hash it out.
> Was there a police report? I'm under the impression that auto insurance companies need a police report.....I could be wrong.
> 
> Typically when it comes to a section/sections replacement....it's gonna work or it's not. You'll know as soon as you lift the door from the floor to full open.


The door 'kinda' works now. I disconnected the opener at the suggestion of the guys I had come out to quote.

The rail that hold the weather-stripping is about halfway ripped off. You have to force the bottom panel up with your other hand in order for it to make the 'swing' around the top. 

No police report, but we know where they live (in a non-threatening/non-creepy kinda way, haha)

Here are some pics - Not sure if these are helpful given the size restrictions on the forum. I'd prefer to stay somewhat anonymous, or I'd put them on my site.

The 3rd panel is not that bad and you can't tell much in the pics, but there's a crease on the outside. My outside pic was too washed out. If anyone really wants to see the outside, let me know


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## Doorman54 (Feb 22, 2012)

Damage looks pretty typical for a bumper hit. 
Sections are non-insulated.....most manufacturers are usually between 24-26 gauge steel so most sections will be close in weight.....shouldn't affect the springs much. 

I'd go with sections, broken rollers, hinges, etc and probably not sweat it one bit.


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

lv123 said:


> It was very clearly not a counter-offer, but his final and only option. He took a very combative tone and I said, "If you're going to act like this, we'll just take your insurance infromation and let them deal with it." To which he replied, "Your insurance would cover it, not ours." - Which is completely false and he knew it. If he refuses to provide his info, I would use my homeowner's insurance, but they would go after his insurance in the end anyway. In the end, I would not be out any money and it would not count as a claim against me.


Quit screwing around with the jerk and turn it over to insurance. He is being tuogh and combative. Insurance eats up tough guys


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Might want to give your insurance agent a call, explain the situation and ask him if you would end up paying a deductible. If not, make the claim to the insurance company. You still might only get a few replacement panels ( if the insurance company can get away with replacing a few panels, rather than the whole door, they will do that too, but they probably won't risk dealing with the hassle if the color is not right). But you would have the satisfaction of knowing the Jerk's insurance rates are going up.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

I've done jobs just like yours and don't normally replace tracks unless they're bent. Your door looks relatively new as far as the tracks and hardware go. When I get a door from the local garage door wholesaler, the sections are about 80% of the total cost of the door package. The tracks and hardware are minimal in cost. If there is damage to the tracks, then I do get a complete door package and just replace everything. If he replaces all 4 sections, you should be fine. That is not a high end door you have now. Whatever manufacturer he is getting the sections from, you shouldn't notice any difference. I would give his friend a shot, let him hang the sections. If he knows at all what he's doing, the door should work fine. Nowadays, its very difficult to just replace a section or two unless the door is only a year or two old, and the supplier hasn't changed manufacturers for the sections. 
Mike Hawkins


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## LVDIY (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm all for trying to be reasonable, but I have absolutely no patience for these types of situations. Once you hear the famous words "I know a guy..." you know you're in trouble. 

I would just let the insurance companies handle it. The person backed into your garage door, so her insurance should cover it. This is not being mean on your part, this is why people have insurance. If they take it personal, then that's their problem.

Why should you spend all this time and energy on this? Especially if they are just being jerks about it. You can still be polite, just tell them you prefer to let professionals handle it.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

LVDIY said:


> just tell them you prefer to let professionals handle it.


What is your definition of a professional??

Wouldnt the friend who owns a commercial door company be considered a professional?"?



lv123 said:


> The friend owns or manages a commercial-only door company


 
By the way I've never heard of a residential only garage door company.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

hammerlane; said:


> What is your definition of a professional??
> 
> Wouldnt the friend who owns a commercial door company be considered a professional?"?


I'd always avoid having a "friend' of someone who did the damage repair it.






hammerlane; said:


> By the way I've never heard of a residential only garage door company.


but I have heard of "commercial only" businesses. 

with my insurance, they would ( and have) paid for the repairs, minus deductible, then go after the other party and their insurance, then reimbursed me when they were paid. however since the damage is likely to not be much, I'd just go right to their insurance company and see if they will pay. insurance is there for a reason, especially if its someone else's why not use it?


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

bbo said:


> I'd always avoid having a "friend' of someone who did the damage repair it.


Cant be a friend
Cant be a commercial door company business

With these stipulations, who would be considered unreasonable?

Maybe listen to the Mrs. and get the crashing party's insurance company.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Why are you making this so difficult?? As several others have suggested, turn this over to your insurance company. If you'd done that at the start, your door would probably already be repaired.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

md2lgyk said:


> Why are you making this so difficult?? As several others have suggested, turn this over to your insurance company. If you'd done that at the start, your door would probably already be repaired.


Are you suggesting the insurance company will:

quickly have this fixed and have the door repaired by a competent individual


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

hammerlane said:


> Are you suggesting the insurance company will:
> 
> quickly have this fixed and have the door repaired by a competent individual


I have Pemco, and I have been ran into by people with Progressive. As the agrieved party, I can tell you both of those companies would have quickly resolved and repaired this issue.

Like within four days - done.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

hammerlane said:


> Are you suggesting the insurance company will:
> 
> quickly have this fixed and have the door repaired by a competent individual


No, I'm not. The choice of who fixes it is up to you. But if you have legitimate estimates, the other party's insurance company will cut you a check. At least that's how it worked for the one homeowner's insurance claim I've ever filed.


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## LVDIY (Mar 28, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> What is your definition of a professional??
> 
> Wouldnt the friend who owns a commercial door company be considered a professional?"?


What I meant was, let professionals handle the claims process rather than messing around with it on your own for 2 months.

The friend might be the most awesome and professional garage door repairman in the country. There is still a conflict of interest, and who do you go to if something needs to be corrected down the road? I'd prefer to call a 3rd party, rather than my neighbor's friend.

These guys are just spending way too much time on something that could easily have been handled by the insurance company. Since they are already disagreeing on how to do this, just let a professional 3rd party handle it and move on.


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the door to be restored to the condition it was in prior to the damage. If you let your neighbor's friend do the job you are exhibiting great faith in the ability and integrity of a business you know nothing about. Investigate the history of the contractor by using the Better Business Bureau's website at the very least. Personally I would let the car owner's ins co handle it. No, there is no deductible for you under the circumstances. There would be if your homeowner's policy were involved but then the homeowner's ins would collect that from the auto insurance anyway since there is no doubt as to who was at fault. I am afraid the company recommended by the husband may do a poor job and leave you high and dry. Life is not a popularity contest. You have to protect yourself.


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## lv123 (Oct 23, 2010)

Sorry to drag this out, but I'm really trying to do the right thing here. I appreciate everyone's feedback.



> Damage looks pretty typical for a bumper hit.
> Sections are non-insulated.....most manufacturers are usually between 24-26 gauge steel so most sections will be close in weight.....shouldn't affect the springs much.
> 
> I'd go with sections, broken rollers, hinges, etc and probably not sweat it one bit.


Again, though, don't you have any concern that the friend was here and said the rollers/hinges all looked fine? I'm not changing the conversation in any way. He said they all looked fine, I said some were clearly bent/broken, he said they weren't, but they stock the parts anyway. If he can't see a clearly broken hinge, what makes me think his guys will replace a slightly bent hinge?



> I would give his friend a shot, let him hang the sections. If he knows at all what he's doing, the door should work fine.


That's the problem here. What if they don't do something correctly? What if the door opens fine on day 1 and there's day 2 after they've left. 



SPS-1 said:


> Might want to give your insurance agent a call, explain the situation and ask him if you would end up paying a deductible. If not, make the claim to the insurance company. You still might only get a few replacement panels ( if the insurance company can get away with replacing a few panels, rather than the whole door, they will do that too, but they probably won't risk dealing with the hassle if the color is not right). But you would have the satisfaction of knowing the Jerk's insurance rates are going up.


My insurance company informed me if the responsible party does not provide their info, I would file a claim with my company. The only way I would pay anything or have this counted as a claim is if they do not receive payment from the responsible party's insurance company.

I'm really not trying to hurt them, I just want the right thing done by the right people. If his friend's company did residential and/or they were in my area, I may be more apt to consider it.



> What is your definition of a professional??
> 
> Wouldnt the friend who owns a commercial door company be considered a professional?"?
> 
> By the way I've never heard of a residential only garage door company.


I've never questioned the professionalism of the company. I don't know anything about the company besides what's on their website. I could find almost nothing anywhere else. No reviews, no BBB profile, etc. Obviously, no homeowners I know would have used them as they are a commercial-shop. 

You may have never heard of res-only, but there are absolutely commercial-only shops. I'd imagine their lowest paying commercial jobs will be paying more than the $400 this guy will be getting paid from the other party. So again, what makes me think I'll get any attention if something is wrong or if I'm not happy? Don't get me wrong, his guys could very well be the best in the world and they'll bend over backwards. But, should I have to be the one to 'test that out'?



> Are you suggesting the insurance company will:
> 
> quickly have this fixed and have the door repaired by a competent individual


I've been fortunate enough to never file an insurance claim, but my understanding of the process is: File the claim > Insurance company either sends estimator or ask me to get estimates > Insurance company writes a check for the estimated cost.

For comparison sake, I have received an offer of $960 for a new door/rails/springs/1 year warranty/everything from a local company (3 others in the same $1k ballpark). They all said I would save no more than $100 by replacing only the 3 or 4 panels. Even if the insurance company only gives me $860, I'll pay the extra $100 out of pocket to get a completely new door.

I know it seems like I'm dragging all this out, but I really want to do the right thing. It's obviously in _my_ best interest to get the insurance companies involved. I know will make out better in the deal getting insurance involved.

I just don't want to feel like I've screwed someone over, made them pay more money unnecessarily, increased their auto-insurance rates; Even if the guy was being a total jerk.

On the other hand, I don't want to be the one to get screwed...

For someone like myself who is so black and white, this is a really difficult decision.

Thanks again for your feedback and discussion.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

I have a hard time understanding why you are worrying about "screwing someone over"

they ran into your garage. get their insurance to pay for it.

how hard is it to call their insurance company? or have yours deal with it.

the longer you drag this on, the worse it gets. just get it over with.


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

It is not unusual for what appears to be a simple matter that can be handled in a mutually agreeable manner to turn into a combative situation as the responsible party considers his out of pocket expenses and what he can do to reduce them. For future reference should this type of situation ever arise again, I would highly recommend that the police be called and a report be filed. That report will contain information about the driver, her insurance company and a description of what occured. The report will be given tremendous weight by insurance companies, attorneys and judges since the police are considered reliable and neutral observers, even when they are not. I would not have thought to do this at the time but hindsight is 20-20, as they say.


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

lv123, I think you and I are alot alike. We like to think the best of people and would prefer to solve problems amicably rather than be confrontational.

I admire that. In this case, you tried. You really did. Now it is time to move on. Get the guilty party's insurance information and contact your insurance carrier. They will take you through the steps you have to take to get this taken care of. Ask your insurance provider if they suggest you file a police report. 

And if asked, explain to the guilty party that you tried to do things amicably, but you were very uncomfortable with their solution and given his take it or leave it offer, you had no other choice but to proceed through the insurance.


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## lv123 (Oct 23, 2010)

Some closure for those who were willing to provide their useful input: I decided to request his insurance information and the process is moving along. He hasn't been nearly as big of a jerk as he was initially. I should be receiving a check in a few days. Thanks for your input and discussion.

I assume I'll probably have better luck in a new thread, but does anyone have any firm opinions on Clopay vs Overhead doors? I'll likely be going with the basic entry-level steal door, so between Clopay T-50-5 / Overhead 170. 

I assume at this price-point, the biggest difference would be in the service/installation quality, but it doesn't hurt to get some opinions (when they're helpful ... I'm not bitter :wink


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## Doorman54 (Feb 22, 2012)

From a hardware, craftsmanship standpoint I'd go with Clopay. 

Whenever we get a job with Overhead product we all make a big "sigh".....


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

www .facebook .com/ClopayGarageDoors might be a good place to start? 

A quote from there: "I am extremely dissatisfied with your company. Your lack of communication and inability to deliver your product as promised has significantly decreased the ..." etc.

DM


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

DangerMouse said:


> www .facebook .com/ClopayGarageDoors might be a good place to start?
> 
> A quote from there: "I am extremely dissatisfied with your company. Your lack of communication and inability to deliver your product as promised has significantly decreased the ..." etc.
> 
> DM


I know nothing about either door company, but if you look hard enough I bet you can find this kind of post for each and every company.:whistling2:


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## Doorman54 (Feb 22, 2012)

jbfan said:


> I know nothing about either door company, but if you look hard enough I bet you can find this kind of post for each and every company.:whistling2:


Truer words could not be spoken!!!

I am only giving my professional opinion. At work I get paid the same not matter who's product we hang.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

I've had good luck with Clopay doors I have installed. We have a local Clopay distributor and the people that work there are knowledgeable and stand behind their products. 
Mike Hawkins


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

jbfan said:


> I know nothing about either door company, but if you look hard enough I bet you can find this kind of post for each and every company.:whistling2:


True, ask the guys that have to hang 'em or fix 'em if you want to know the skinny.

IMO Clopay isn't worth the effort to hang, it is very definitely one of those "you get what you pay for" things.


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## angelatc (Jun 10, 2012)

jbfan said:


> I know nothing about either door company, but if you look hard enough I bet you can find this kind of post for each and every company.:whistling2:


That's very true. But seeing how the company reacts to those type comments is the real tell.


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## alexfrego (Sep 24, 2012)

As a garage door pro, I would stay away from Clopay and Overhead Door. I'll start off with Clopay. First, the steel gauge of Clopay doors is thinner than other manufacturers. For example, their 24 gauge door is thinner than a 24 gauge door from another manufacturer. the steel sections are very flimsy and tend to buckle after a few years of normal use. Second, unless you opt for a hardware upgrade, you'll end up with a Clopay door with cheap, light-weight 18 gauge hinges and plastic rollers. These parts don't hold up as well as the heavy duty hardware. Third, you can't ever get Clopay doors to balance properly. This is because they come with galvanized torsion springs that lose tension with time. Sometimes, the door might be too heavy for the opener to open it so just won't open. Other times, you might have a more serious problem such as a cable popping of the drum, causing the door to become cocked in the opening.

Now, onto Overhead Door. Like the clopay doors, the steel sections are made of thin gauge steel that is very flimsy. Even the stiles (the frame-work where the hinges attach to) are very flimsy. Overhead Door also uses unique box-shaped hinges. Through time, the hinge bolts will work themselves loose and fall out. In some cases, the hinges might rip away from the actual door panel, requiring a repair or section replacement. They also tend to provide you with cheap plastic rollers and with this particular model (model 170), even if you have a 2 car door, they are typically installed with only one spring, rather than 2. This can cause problems later down the road if the spring breaks and the door slams down or if the cables come off the drums.

If they are available in your area, I strongly recommend the 1st United Door Technologies brand of garage doors. They make excellent garage doors. In particular, I recommend the model U224 since you are looking for an entry level door. It's a heavy 24 gauge steel door and the panels come with a lifetime warranty. What I like about this manufacturer is that even on their entry level doors, they provide you with heavy 14 gauge hinges, 11 ball bearing rollers, and heavy gauge tracks. They also use oil tempered torsion springs rather than the galvanized springs so that way you don't have to deal with having a tech re-tension the springs on a regular basis.

If 1st United Door Technologies isn't available in your area, then the only other brand I would recommend is C.H.I. but I would recommend asking about upgrading to heavy duty rollers. The heavy duty hinges are standard for this manufacturer but the 11 ball bearing roller upgrade isn't unfortunately. 

These are just my observations and opinions after 13 years in the industry. I hope this helps! Best of luck on shopping for a new garage door!


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