# Garage door q&a



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Welcome to the site----Join in any section that you feel you can be of use---Mike---


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the kind offer. I am currently having some issues with my garage door. It is a 16' x 7' (Martin brand) with a single torsion spring at one end of the torsion tube. My question is: what would cause the spring winding cone to become stuck on the torsion tube? I have already relieved all spring tension via use of the pulleys, and I have completely removed both of the set-screws (square-head bolt) from the spring winding cone, but that thing is almost welded on to the torsion tube. How I am ever going to re-apply/adjust spring tension remains to be determined.....

In addition to my first question (what would cause the spring winding cone to get seized on the torsion tube?), I might follow-up with a second:

What is the determining factor in using two torsion springs or only one?

Thanks for any insights,

Paul


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

*Your Door*

On those Martin doors that you describe they usually have the spring set screws that you have to use allen wrenches on to get them tight or loose. I see from your post you have the regular square head ones. What happens a lot of time is the original person that installs the spring tightens those set screws way way too much and it turns your torsion tube from a circle (looking from the end) to what looks like a cam lobe. Trying to move the round opening on your cone over this can be a real pain and you will have to file off the high spots once you get the spring off. The other thing that can happen is the set screws cause a little burr that makes things not move. Either way I just take a little sledge hammer and pound the cone till it moves. Don't hold on to the spring with your hands at all during this process because the spring stretches when you wind it and may snap back to its normal state and pinch the skin on your hand. (i know from experience!) 

As far as one spring or two it is usually just the manufacturers choice. One spring saves them money but has its downfalls. When that spring breaks then the full weight of the door is on the ground. It also takes all the tension off the torsion springs so when you do lift the door, they get in the way or get caught in the track. 

I prefer two springs to avoid both those problems. If one spring breaks only half the weight of the door is on the ground since the other spring is still working and the cables stay tight. If you want to switch from one to two you can find a good calculator if you google DDM springs. 

Get back to me if you have any other questions.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Welcome to the forums.


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Robert,

Thank you again. You were right; the original installer really tightened the heck out of those square-head bolts. I did my best to take a couple of pictures and document the deformation of the torsion tube. I wonder if there are torsion tubes made out a thicker gauge of metal -- less likely to *give* under the force of the bolts? I am also wondering if I should replace this torsion tube?

Hopefully, I can get these photos to post.....

Paul


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

Windows on Wash said:


> Welcome to the forums.


Thank you.


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

Paultergeist said:


> Robert,
> 
> Thank you again. You were right; the original installer really tightened the heck out of those square-head bolts. I did my best to take a couple of pictures and document the deformation of the torsion tube. I wonder if there are torsion tubes made out a thicker gauge of metal -- less likely to *give* under the force of the bolts? I am also wondering if I should replace this torsion tube?
> 
> ...


That is what I thought it was. Those photos are great and show exactly what happens when the set screws get tightened down too much. 

They do make thicker gauge torsion tubes but as long as you don't do more damage when you put it all back together it will be fine. I always hand tighten the set screws till they make contact with the tube then tighten them 5 quarter turns. so a full 1.25 turns. (you could go to 6 or 7 quarter turns if you want but anything more is going to start to damage the bar) This usually is enough for them to never come apart and not damage the bar too. 

I see bars like this all the time and usually it is because an installer is trying to be fast and they actually use their impact wrench on the torsion bar when they are installing the garage door or replacing the springs.


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi Robert,

Thanks again; it is most kind of you to so freely share of your knowledge and expertise.

Immediate plan: get it put back together and working, such that I can have a functional garage door again. Bonus: learning and confidence have increased.

Slightly longer-term plan: Outfit the garage with dual springs. For consistency, I will probbaly order the opposite side-spring anchor bracket from Martin (manufacturer) so that both spring brackets match. Then I'll most likely get a dual-spring kit from GarageDoorNation or one of the other vendors -- my understanding is that I cannot just simply add another spring to the single-spring which I currently have, but rather a unified pair of springs has to be rated to appropriately divide the load, etc.

I was also thinking that it might be good to add a second center bearing bracket (to support the torsion tube)? Right now, I have only one center bearing bracket -- mounted right in the middle of the span across the garage door opening -- but I can observe the torsion tube encounter some *flex* as I wind the spring. Having the center bearing bracket support the torsion tube closer to the winding cone seems like a more secure way to go -- I would thus need (2) of these center bearing brackets if I go to (2) springs as I propose. 

May I also then ask you: is it appropriate / recommended to use (2) center bearing brackets across the torsion tube (for added support) -- or does that introduce some other issues?

Much thanks,

Paul


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## iwoofy (Oct 28, 2014)

*9' garage door in 10' wall?*

Hi, 
Is it possible to install a 9' garage door in a 10' wall? I'd like to add an addition to my garage that would be 10'x22' and I want to add a 9' garage door on the 10' end. I could make the addition wall 3.5", but at the bottom they want at least a six inch cement block, which leaves little room, but is it enough? Also, what kind of bolting to the slab would be required to ensure the wall stays put and meets code in St. Paul, MN? 
Jerry


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

It is recommended that there is 12" above the door for the springs and the opener with a 12" radius track. You could go with low clearance tracks and hardware and squeeze it into 8" or so. Any less and you would have to look up the "super sneaky" low clearance setup online and they say that you can work with only 6" of headroom above the top of the door. 

As far as the other stuff goes I do not know much about construction and it would be best to ask in the forum to see if anyone knows the MN building codes for that.

I hope this all helps.


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

Paultergeist said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> Thanks again; it is most kind of you to so freely share of your knowledge and expertise.
> 
> ...


We usually use just one center bearing and bracket with a two spring system but it is in the middle of the door and that usually works out just fine. If you wanted to put one 1/3 of the way down and another 1/3 of the way down or something like that it would be just fine. The larger custom doors do have a mounting bracket and bearing where the spring end is and they will separate the springs. Sometimes this stuff is just installer choice.


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## flhtcu (Oct 12, 2014)

Northmet-around here they are called 'quick turn" brackets. They cost about an additional $65 added to the normal garage door brackets.[I have an 8 ft door in a 9 ft wall]
Welcome to the forum! I just joined in here a couple of weeks ago,and have learned a lot already.


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

flhtcu,
Thanks for the reply. Those quick turn one's work for most low clearance applications but the super sneaky ones are different than those. They have a 6 minute long video that shows how their specific hinges and mounting brackets work. I think they are pretty cool but have never used them. I have a couple of doors that I will probably be doing in the near future that I am thinking about using them on.


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Robert,
If I have not already over-used your generous offer to address questions, I wanted to ask for a bit more insight into torsion springs......

I am seriously considering swapping out the (current) single torsion spring for a pair of springs (as we discussed previously). What seems odd to me is this: currently, I have a 40-inch single spring; based on a dual spring calculator, it is recommended that I can replace that single spring with (2) 26-inch springs.

It makes sense to me the the (2) springs would be of a lighter (smaller) wire gauge than a single spring. What is non-intuitive to me is why would I want the dual springs to be shorter length -- less coils -- than the single? The total anoumt of door travel is still the same, and thus the total number of spring winds/un-winds per door opening evolution would be the same. It seems to me that a longer spring would have a more gradual and consistent force applied than a shorter spring(s), and it doesn't *feel* right to make the (2) springs shorter.......?

Having written this, I am aware that almost all garage doors in residences are around 7 feet (=/- a foot), and yet the springs come in many lengths over a wide range -- there must be a rationale. I just cannot see it......?

Any thoughts?


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

*Garage door Torsion springs*

Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you. We bought a house and moved in the last week and I finally got my computer up and running the other day. 

When you go from one spring to two springs you usually go with a smaller gauge wire and a shorter spring. Your spring calculator is showing you two 26 inch springs but when you think about the overall spring system you are going from 40 inches to 52 inches so you are actually adding length and coils to the system. 

Here is a for instance that I know off the top of my head. Most 16x7 steel pan doors use a pair of .207 x 21" spring with a 2" diameter. If you wanted to have the same lift and more cycles you could use a pair of .218x28" springs or a pair of .234x34" springs and if you wanted to convert to one spring it would most likely be a .250x30" spring. All spring calculations are based on inch pounds per turn and this is based on the weight and height of your door as well as the drum size. 

I hope this helps, if you need more clarification feel free to ask.


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Great information as always, Robert. Thanks Very much.

I hope you and your family have much enjoyment in the new home.

Paul


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

Robert, just so I don't leave you in suspense, there have been some developments. Tme is short, but I got the door working, at least somewhat. I will provide a bit more detail in a follow-up post during the next few days; kind of running from issue to issue right now.

Till then,

Paul


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

It looks like this thread got moved?

Robert, I just wanted to let you know that I did get the garage door working again. In addition to the torsion spring, one of the two pulleys had the (3) Allen-head bolts cranked on so tight that the torsion rod was warpped at that location as well. At any rate, I got the torsion rod shifted laterally an inch or two to try and avoid the spots of damage, set the two pulleys (one at a time), and then brought tension on to the spring. At this point in time, I still have only the one (original) spring, but I would like to switch to two springs down the road. That spring was physically hard to wind, and I admit I was a bit nervous, but I got it done. I would estimate that I have 7.5 - 8 revolutions on that spring when the door is all the way down. 

There is still some sort of resistance on the door, but maybe it is normal. The door *stays put* at intermediate heights of being raised. It is a bit heavy at the bottom, yet the spring tension is such that the door is slightly over-wound (positive lifting) at the top of the door travel. This seems to be about the best happy medium I am going to be able to find.

I just want to say "thank you" again for all the help. I hope the new house is working well.

Paul


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## wishIweremydad (May 6, 2014)

Northmetrogarage,
Hopefully you're still here.
I have two garage doors that exhibit the same symptoms and would like your help.
They are Craftsman 1/2 hp attached to sectional doors. 
When the doors are closing the trolley gets about 4/5ths of the travel and tends to bind.
This happens more as the weather gets colder.
I am putting a link to a video of the door closing. You can see where the trolley binds and then pushes through to continue its travel. The ceiling is damaged where the trolley has bound so much it hits the ceiling.
What causes this? Improper installation? Need for lubrication? 
Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/cpk3m62u5ud5z7k/AAA8FwJQw2N_zJeOg336nWg-a


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

*Hmm*

I have watched your video several times. It seems like there is some binding of some sort that the opener has to push through, but, i cannot tell for sure where the problem lies. Check the bracket connection where the vertical and horizontal tracks come together. Is the top panel bowing or cracking at all?


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## wishIweremydad (May 6, 2014)

I unhooked the trolley and open and shut the door by hand.
When grasping it from the bottom it doesn't seem too stiff.
But I got on a ladder and pulled and pushed it by hand from the top and right where it tends to bind while closing I couldn't even shut it by hand (pushing from the top).
At that point I check all the wheels for binding. All were loose ( I could rotate all of them with my fingers) except the bottom ones. They were tight against the interior side of the rail. 
I noticed that the bottom panel (it's a three panel door) is not parallel with the track. The bottom of that panel slant to the interior of the garage. But it's that way on three garage doors that I looked at for comparison.
Here's a link to pictures of each of the wheels at the point that the door is binding.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eu6ohykimdnlhei/AABuHlIytWdvquQKNnlLTQpta?dl=0

Thanks.


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## blazito (Sep 27, 2014)

I just had my garage door "balanced" by a "professional". He actually told me my side springs had to be replaced for dual springs because the garage door was too heavy for my current springs. After replacing the springs with the dual springs, the garage door starts out by closing nice and slow and then suddenly goes faster when it's about 3 feet from the ground. Does that mean it's not properly balanced? The new dual springs not strong enough? Or is my door just too heavy for the Genie 3042 opener? 

Thanks.


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## Paultergeist (Oct 13, 2014)

I will wait for Robert's professional response before I dwell on this too deeply, but your description of the door closing does not sound right to me.

The way the springs should be set, they are applying maximal reverse (lifting) force when the door is fully closed (down). The springs should un-wind as the door is raised, thus applying less lifting force as more of the door panels are brought overhead (horizontal). This effect should be fairly smooth and balanced through-out the travel of the door.....?


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

blazito said:


> I just had my garage door "balanced" by a "professional". He actually told me my side springs had to be replaced for dual springs because the garage door was too heavy for my current springs. After replacing the springs with the dual springs, the garage door starts out by closing nice and slow and then suddenly goes faster when it's about 3 feet from the ground. Does that mean it's not properly balanced? The new dual springs not strong enough? Or is my door just too heavy for the Genie 3042 opener?
> 
> Thanks.


Paultergeist is right on this one. If you want to find out if your door is balanced, unhook it from the opener and lift it up half way, it should just sit there and not rise or fall, if it is "perfectly" balanced you should be able to lift it to any position and it will stay exactly in that position but usually it is fine if you can lift it every 1/4 and it stays there. 

I looked at those pictures and I cannot tell if the door is actually leaning in or it is an optical illusion due to your insulation not sitting flush. Based on the pictures and the video it is hard to tell what exactly is going on. I would probably figure it out in 30 seconds if I were there in person to look at it. I would check to see of the bottom of the door is actually hitting the door frame when it closes causing the binding. If the installer puts the bottom brackets on a little too high this can happen. I would also check to see of the bottom brackets are catching on something. These outside, reverse wind low clearance door setups can be a real pain in the keester!


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## blazito (Sep 27, 2014)

The door stays open when unhooked and raised all the way up and also when it's half way down. But when it's 2 or so feet off the ground, it slowly creeps down. I wonder if it's a problem with the Genie openers.


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

I can't stand Genie openers. I never buy them, sell them or install them.


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## northmetrogarag (Oct 27, 2014)

Did you find where the problem lies in your binding garage door?


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## wishIweremydad (May 6, 2014)

No. But I'm leaning towards the vertical track being adjusted too close at the bottom of the run. I've been too busy with holiday stuff to get back out and work with it and it's been pretty cold to work on an open garage door. 
Should the vertical track stay parallel with the door opening all the way from top to bottom (remain the same distance at the top, middle, and bottom)?
I think my track is installed so that the bottom 1/5th or so slightly slants towards the outside of the garage. Thus the door wheels are binding on the interior edge of the track as it gets to the bottom.
Since I have never installed a garage door I don't know how it should be set and how moving it slightly will affect the way the door flushes with the frame. 
As a side: the top edge of the top panel of the door has about a 3/4 to 1" play in it when the door is shut. Wind causes it to bang a bit. I probably need to find a good primer on adjusting garage doors.
This thread can get confusing at times since there are multiple problems being posted and answered. Thanks for helping out.


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## motorcycle10 (Mar 27, 2015)

northmetrogarag said:


> Hello I am Robert the owner of North Metro Garage LLC in Arvada Colorado. I am here to help if any garage door questions pop up. Feel free to ask me anything garage door related in this thread and I would be glad to provide you an answer.


We have RMR Type "N", Model N620REV118WA garage door motor that no longer works. Is there a replacement for this motor as it appears RMR doesn't sell them any longer. I have tried to locate on internet, but to no avail.

Thanks.


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## kallie kanter (Oct 11, 2015)

*Door to Door Help*



northmetrogarag said:


> Hello I am Robert the owner of North Metro Garage LLC in Arvada Colorado. I am here to help if any garage door questions pop up. Feel free to ask me anything garage door related in this thread and I would be glad to provide you an answer.


Hello Robert :smile: Thank you for your time in advance! I was reading your thoughtful, thorough and very helpful answers to some technical questions regarding garage doors - while mine might not be detailed as others, I am in preliminary stages of figuring out the scope of work required to convert my 1 car garage into a 2 car garage - just bought the house and it was a foreclosure so all sorts of issues and you get what you get...I have no detailed drawings/scehmatics so it's just my tape measure, camera and me..attached is the inside of the current garage - as you can see, it looks like I have the brick pad and several feet already with foundation and the roof hang seems consistent and would look okay if I extended the opening and bought new door. I have a SUV that will not fit in the door (tight squeeze) so the garage as is is useless.
Attached also is photo of front so you can see the lines of home and garage.


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## coreyfromGA (Dec 27, 2015)

*Tightened way too much...help please*



Paultergeist said:


> Robert,
> 
> Thank you again. You were right; the original installer really tightened the heck out of those square-head bolts....
> 
> Paul



Robert -- hopefully this thread is still active and you are able to respond and assist me with guidance. Recently, against my wife's suggestion, I am taking on this DIY project to replace the garage torsion spring. It only had one to begin with -- and everywhere I read said to install two, so that's what I am doing. However, driven by fear in an effort to keep myself from having a winding bar lodged into my forehead, I tightened the "heck out of those square-head bolts" so much that the torsion rod is punctured and crimped...in your words 'no longer round'. My question -- Since I already have the new springs on is okay, is this going to be an issue? 

If your answer is 'no' for the present situation, I do realize at some point in the future I will have to file down to get these ones off whenever it has to be repaired. I just need to know whether I have to do this in order for these springs to work now. Thank you.


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