# Blowing In Cellulose Insulation - Need Advice



## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm getting ready to add cellulose insulation to my attic in a few weeks. 
Would it be better to get the machine from a local hardware store or are the one's at Lowe's alright?

Is there one brand of cellulose that's better than the others?

I haven't done this before, so if anyone has ANY suggestions, tips or advice on blowing the insulation in, I'd really appreciate it.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

I did this in the fall of 2008 and it was pretty easy and well worth the time and effort as proven this winter. I rented the machine from Home Depot and it worked just fine. The machine is HEAVY though -- you'll need a fairly sturdy trailer for that, and also to get the bags of insulation home (I made 4 trips in my Acura TSX carrying 8 bags per trip -- couldn't see out the side or back windows but it was only a few blocks to HD). The machine was loaded onto a buddy's trailer.

You will need someone down at the machine, in the driveway most likely, to load the insulation into the machine about 1/3 of a bag at a time. You will have a swtich and the hose in the attic with you and can control the machine from there.

Prior to getting everything home, take a trip up into the attic and determine how much insulation you are planning to blow in, and mark these depths on every vertical surface you can, to provide visual indicators as to when to stop blowing in a certain area. This will save you time and hassle once you have the machine for the 4 hours or the day. Plus you'll know exactly how much insulation to buy (and always buy a few bags extra, it can never hurt!).

We did about 1000 sqft of attic space, using 32 bags of the stuff, providing an average of 8" or so of extra insulation. There were some very low spots that took more insulation to get up to the required level, so we JUST had enough insulation to get the job done.

I don't think there's one brand thats better than the others, but we did we a difference in the pricing between the two brands that were available in my area -- both were said to be equal products by about 5 different employees of 3 different stores, so that was good enough reason for em to go with the cheaper bags over the more expensive ones!

Take your time up in the attic, make sure to walk only on the joists (this can be tricky), and not end up going through the ceiling to the floor below!


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks Curls, I'll have to ask around to borrow a trailer. Do you think they'll help me load it on the trailer? I think I can get the bags of insulation home in my van. Lowe's is only 3 miles away, so making a few extra trips won't hurt.

I'll definitely mark the depth on all the vertical boards. That's a good idea. 

How did you know if you got all the spaces filled without leaving any air pockets?


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

The HD guys would not load it onto the trailer - insurance reasons for if it were to fall off and you try and blame them, yadda yadda yadda. I had a friend there and it wasn't too bad.

I was adding to the existing blown-in fiberglass stuff, so I wasnt TOO concerned with air pockets here or there. Either way, the stuff gets blown in pretty compactly (moreso than fiberglass but that's how cellulose just "is"). I wouldn't worry about air pockets, they'd be pretty rare I think.

Are you adding to existing insulation, or putting insulation where it never was before? Either way, I'd look at the blown-depth vs. settled-depth for the brand you are using (and try and set the machine correctly), and mark your guidelines accordingly when in the attic. It does tend to settle a bit but it'll be clearly labelled on the bags, and I'm sure the Lowe's employee can help you out as well.

I have been unscientifically keeping track of my savings vs. last year for heating costs, and so far it's been noticeable. I'd expect my $390 cost (tax-in!) to be recovered by the end of next winter or possibly mid-winter 2010/2011. Regardless of the savings, however, we did notice the house was a LOT more comfortable, we no longer hear airplanes overhead, and the furnace isn't kicking on every hours during the coldest nights. It made the house way more liveable and that alone was worth the money and effort.

PS: Wear a dust mask and goggles. It isn't irritant like fiberglass but it'll get in your nostrils and lungs just the same, if you aren't using a decent dust mask.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

Oh, depending on your van, you MIGHT be able to get it in the van to bring it home. Someone I know did that and it was fine. Probably wouldn't hurt to bring a few boards to use as a ramp as the machine probably has 2 wheels to drag it around on. Depending on the machine you should be able to take the top half off (the hopper) to have it fit vertically in the van. Strap it down so it doesn't move around and voila! Remove your rear bench and that should be all the room you need. I'd guess the machine is about 3'W x 2.5'L x 4'H, with the top half on.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

> Are you adding to existing insulation, or putting insulation where it never was before?


I have R-19 batts up there now. Some of them are a little beat-up looking from when I was up there sealing everything. lol. I moved each one of them at least twice for one reason or another. 



> I have been unscientifically keeping track of my savings vs. last year for heating costs, and so far it's been noticeable.


It's good to know that there's a noticable difference for you. I noticed a 19% drop in my gas usage just from sealing my attic and doing some other energy saving things around the house. I'm anxious to see if adding insulation to the attic will make more of a difference. 

One thing I'm the most curious about is how it will effect the way my A/C cools the house this summer. When we have it on, our basement (where the bedrooms are) is freezing while the upstairs still feels uncomfortably warm. 

Thanks for the suggestion about the van. I think that'll work well once I take the back seats out. I can haul 4' x 8' drywall in it, so the machine should fit pretty well. 

If I buy 20 bags of insulation at Lowe's, I can use the machine free for 24 hours (with a returnable $250 deposit). I hope 24 hours is enough time. The only problem is that they don't let anyone reserve the machine, it's on a first-come first-serve basis. Looks like I'll have to set the alarm clock that day. LOL.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

We rented the machine for 4 (four) hours and returned it with about 20 minutes to spare. 24 hours is more than enough time! 

For the A/C issue, do you change your vent openings spring and fall, to heat the basement/main floor in the winter (hot air rises), and cool the main/top floor in the summer (cold air sinks)? It really helps the balance between floors, and even room-to-room, to do this.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

One more thing I will add from my experince with cellulose : *It's REALLY DUSTY!* I would not only place the blower outside, but bring the hose in from a gable vent if possible. If you need to bring it in thru the scuttle/access hole in the house, at least make a good effort to close the hole off around the hose.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I can't get up on the roof (chicken), but I was thinking about taking a sash out of a window in the room that has the attic access. I thought I'd take all the toys and crib out of there, close the door and tape plastic around it. 

Should I tape plastic around the window also and cut a hole in it big enough for the hose to fit through?

I guess, even if I could get up on the roof, I'm not sure I would know how to remove the vent or put it back on. One guy who came over to give an estimate on doing the work said they put the hose down through the roof. That sounds like a smart way to do it.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

> For the A/C issue, do you change your vent openings spring and fall, to heat the basement/main floor in the winter (hot air rises), and cool the main/top floor in the summer (cold air sinks)? It really helps the balance between floors, and even room-to-room, to do this.


We can't change the vent openings. There are two large cold-air returns on the main floor about 10 feet from each other. Unless you mean the regular heat vents. Yes, the basement vents get closed in the summer. That doesn't seem to help, although it really should. Thanks for the suggestion.

There used to be a cold-air return in the basement, but it didn't seem to help. It's not there anymore. 

It's a split-level house. At the front door, the stairway goes up 1/2 flight and down 1/2 flight. Even having the ceiling fan on over the stairs makes no noticable difference. I could understand if there was a doorway between the two levels, but it's all open.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

We have attic access via our closet in the master bedroom, which is over the garage and the entire front of the house (large master suite!). We closed the bedroom door and ran the hose up into a window and into the closet and up into the attic. We put drop cloths on all closet items, and had the furnace fan ON the entire time, changing the filter a few days later (boy was it dirty from this stuff!).

The dust in the rest of the house was minimal / non-existant by taking these precautions. I wouldn't bother taping up the window as it will get into your house either via the attic or via the window, but it really wasn't bad. A quick vacuum job and a wipe of the furniture in the bedroom and things were 100% fine.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I hadn't even thought about the furnace. Thanks for pointing that out.

You did it in less than 4 hours? That's good to know. So if I get everything set-up and start insulating by noon, I should be done by 7 or 8 pm. Not including the time it takes to clean-up after I'm done. :yes:


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

Basically the blower was running full-tilt for 2.5 hours (at most) with my buddy feeding bags into it and my in the attic. If you have the bags ready to go near the place where the machine will be, and you have the depths marked and the proper household stuff covered, it'll be a quick job.


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## kawendtco (Oct 5, 2007)

call your local insulation company. they will do a better job and it is about the same as or less than the cost of rental and purchase of diyer stuff. it will be done in a a fraction of the time as well and not near as dusty.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

hey, there is more info and tips on the subject over here:

http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/blown-fiberglass-20064/

Knucklez


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I was _kind of_ kidding about it taking that long. My son-in-law said he'd come over to help, so between the two of us, it shouldn't really take 7 or 8 hours. I'll get everything prepped the night before, so it won't be a big deal. And we'll have all the bags close to the machine, like you suggested curls00.

For a while, I thought about paying someone to do this. A couple companies came over to give me estimates. One wanted around $1,100+ and the other was around $800+. I was going to have one of them do it, but that was when I thought I needed someone to vent the bathroom fan out of the attic. My husband would rather have someone else do the insulation, but this is something I can do (with my son-in-laws help). 

I priced the insulation. One brand will cost about $265 total and the other brand will be about $485. Not sure why one is so much higher than the other. Those are prices from last November and from just one store. I have to check prices at Lowe's and HD still. 

Thanks for the link Knucklez. That's all good info. I don't understand what you meant about the static electricity and not using any electronics. 

(I was going to be a smart-alec and ask if the static electricity would make my mp3 player play the Beatles songs backwards. But I won't ask that. :no

Oh, one more thing. The lady at Lowe's told me I need a heavy duty exterior electric cord. I have a couple long orange ones, is that the kind she's talking about? She said something about the machine not working with a regular cord.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

gma2rjc said:


> Oh, one more thing. The lady at Lowe's told me I need a heavy duty exterior electric cord. I have a couple long orange ones, is that the kind she's talking about? She said something about the machine not working with a regular cord.


HD gave me their ultra-heavy duty cord to use with the machine. It was THICK and HEAVY. Thankfully, free with machine rental.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks, that's good to know. It doesn't sound like Lowe's provides one and I doubt I'll ever need one again, so I'll have to see how much they cost. If it's a lot, it might be worth renting from HD, they're only about 8 or 10 miles away. 

I'm pretty sure my orange cords are not the kind I need then. They're thicker than a cord attached to a lamp, but not by that much.


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## curls00 (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm sure Lowe's or HD will rent them w/ a machine rental.

Anyhow I'm heading out on a road trip for a few days, so good luck on this and have fun!


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Enjoy your vacation and thanks a lot for your help.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

by static electricity.. i meant the same thing that happens when you rub your socks on the carpet in the winter time and then you touch someone on the ear.. ZAP! 

this is like you rubbing a balloon against your hair and then sticking the balloon to the wall... static electricity.

but when you blow in insulation and the loose cellulous is traveling through the house at a high rate of speed, it builds static electricity but during the entire time you are using the machine, so could be for an hour at a time! you will build up quite a static charge, so much so, that the watch you are wearing could go kaput.. (mine did). 

no big deal.. you personally are immune, but you might start to feel light headed or even nautious.. just take a break if you need to.

what is the difference between teh brands? i have no idea, but you can go to the manufacturers website and read their brochures and find out. the basics you want are fire retardant, mildoretardant & good R-value. remember, you probably do not have a vapour barrier if you are chosing to blow in insulation, so mildo protection is a must.

the machine will have the proper extention cord with it when you rent it. if it does NOT have one, you should demand it. it is a matter of electrical safety. the machine draws a lot of power and you need an extension cord that is rated for this. also the extension cord LENGTH can not be "too long" either .. also a matter of electrical safety. 

in preperation for this job.. go to the store and look at the machine and look at the nozzle where the cellulous will come out of (not the hose, but the nozzle). see that diameter hole size? you need to cut squares in your walls, at the TOP of your wall just under the header, so that it will just allow the nozzle to fit in. (you can cut circles like i did, but this just is harder to cut and harder to patch later with no real benefit).

when you hold the nozzle against the wall, wrap the nozzel with an old towel so there is no hole, because when the wall fills up the cellulous will come shooting out any gaps that exist around the nozzle and wall. 

with your other hand you hit the remote to turn OFF the flow of cellulous. do not think you can just shout to your parter "turn it OFF!!!!!!" because the machine is damned loud and they won't hear you.

ps. make sure you get them to teach you how to clean the air filter. good air flow in the machine means you can work MUCH faster with a faster flow rate of cellulous (it is adjustable).

i did 2 floors of my house for less than $500. it paid for itself that same winter (not to mention the government grant i received for improving efficiency).

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

remember that you must cut holes above doors and below windows. it takes a long ass time to prep the house for the machine. also, if you have areas that are really tall wall with no breaks, like front door lobby or the wall beside stairs.. then there will be TWO places in that wall you will need to cut holes. 

and how will you reach up there so high? do you have scaffolding? what about the stairs? how will you reach to the top where the hole needs to be cut (right under the header). 

are there closets or shelves somewhere in your house that is also an exterior wall? you need to clear space to get in there and cut a hole in the wall to insulate it. 

the holes you cut.. you should use a template so all holes are the EXACT same. this will make patching the holes a heck of a lot easier and faster. i can show you a good technique on how to patch the holes when you are done if you are not sure.

work out a plan. .cut all your holes. then rent the machine.

if you are prepared and have a helper and bought more than enough insulation.. you can do the entire house in 4 hours. but its cheap, just rent it for 24 hours and take your time. don't worry about it cause you make up this money (and then some) by doing it yourself .


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks Knucklez. I appreciate all the good information. I'm just insulating my attic, but my neighbor is talking about renting the machine for their walls. Your info will be helpful for them. 

That's pretty awesome to save enough on heating in the first winter to pay for the insulation. I can imagine your house must be a lot warmer for your family. 

Thanks also for explaining the static electricity's effect on electronics. My dad was a test engineer for a company that made tanks over by Detroit. There was something there that ruined his watches. I always thought it was big magnets, but maybe it was the stat. elec.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

kawendtco said:


> call your local insulation company. they will do a better job and it is about the same as or less than the cost of rental and purchase of diyer stuff. it will be done in a a fraction of the time as well and not near as dusty.


 I'll second that motion! I hired a contractor to do mine, and am I ever glad that I did!
An experienced contractor will do a job that would take you all day in 2 or 3 hours!
And they are responsible for the cleanup! (and damages)


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i will decline that motion :no:

remember, this is a DIY website.. why DIY? mostly three reasons:
1) willing to trade my time to save money
2) willingness to learn something new
3) not all contractors are good, some are down right scoundrals that leave you high and dry crap work & take your money to boot.

i think you have to pick and chose your battles. some things require contractors some things do not. for me, i am more than capable of blowing in insulation properly, cleaning up the mess and otherwise completing the job to my satisfaction. if i'm not sure if it is to code, i will hire the city inspector (even for non-permit jobs) to give a look. 

Knucklez


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Knucklez said:


> i will decline that motion :no:
> 
> remember, this is a DIY website.. why DIY? mostly three reasons:
> 1) willing to trade my time to save money
> ...


 Nobody is a more DIY than I! I built my own house once. Totally renovated a duplex and completely renovated my retirement home!
At the moment, I'm on the downhill side of 70 years and am in the process of replacing a porch roof with a new one.

There's two jobs that I have learned to use a contractor for. One is roofing and the other is blowing insulation!
Both of these jobs are not really rocket science and are difficult to screw up. 
They are just tough, labor intensive jobs that are best left to those are equipped to do this work quickly and efficiently.

There are questionable contractors out there, I will admit! Care should be taken when selecting one and once you have found a reliable one, never, never let him go! :no::no::no:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i hear ya! 

i never worked so hard in my life for so little money as when i am work'n on a DIY project. :huh:

ps. i don't do roofing. i hire that out because i do not bounce well.


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