# Two switch in one box: only one working



## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

Test the switch that is not working. If you have power on one side of the switch turn the switch on. If the power doesn't go to the other screw on the switch replace the switch because its bad.


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## jdtsmith (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks, but the switch is working fine. The problem is there is no power coming into that switch! I could bypass the switch altogether, but it would do no good: that half of the pair simply isn't getting power, and I can't understand why.

It's occurred to me I could slave everything (vanity, closet, shower fan+light, ceiling light above tub) off the one good hot coming into the box, but there must be a reason there were two supplies coming in like this on the same circuit to begin with. I am assuming they have to be the same circuit by process of elimination (and no hot continuity through to the GFCI outlet pair next door). Is there any better method for determining the circuit of a non-powered cable?


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## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

Hmm thats a tuff one without being there. Did you see if the switch is off the GFCI?


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

Your description doesn't make a lot of sense, but check the white wires. You should have all of them joined together in the switch box. It may be a poor connection there that is causing your problem.


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## jdtsmith (Jan 15, 2008)

@hH Which part doesn't make sense? 

This box is wired like two different and separate circuits with 3 incoming cables each. One set of three has blacks tied (one through a switch), and three whites tied. So does the other. I'm wondering why there would be two incoming supply lines like this.

I have checked the voltage of the incoming lines to ground: one group of 3 is fine, one has no incoming power.

@dS I checked to see if the GFCI was providing power to the switch, but it isn't (easily determined because the cable jackets are different colors). That's why I assume it has to be the "light/fan/closet" circuit. I even checked the bedroom outlets just to be sure they weren't supplying power to the switch.

Thanks!


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

Might be a bad connection in the breaker panel, either on the circuit breaker itself or the neutral connection at the buss bar. If it appears to be just one complete circuit affected it could even be a bad circuit breaker. Could find another breaker in the panel to disconnect and temporarily connect the wire for the suspected faulty circuit just to rule out a bad circuit breaker.


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## jdsmith (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks theatretch. The problem is, the circuit I think it's part of is still supplying power to the vanity + closet, so it can't be at the breaker panel. Since the problematic side is not hot, it's difficult to determine which circuit it's part of, but if I believe the panel description, it should be the same as the other switch in the box. What's confusing me is why then you'd have two supply lines on the same circuit into a single box, and where they'd be joined upstream before the breaker panel. There's no other logical circuit to assign it to, either. Very strange...


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

jdtsmith said:


> The switch box has six 3-wire cables coming in. Three blacks are wire-nutted together, with one black coming out of this wire-nut through the functioning switch, and on to the vanity light. The non-switched hot from this group goes to the nearby closet light. This "side" of the pair of switches works fine.


This part makes sense for an incoming hot cable and two outgoing hot cables, with a pigtail to the switches. 



> The other 3 blacks in the box are wired together identically in another wire-nut. The switched hot from this group goes to the recessed light. The non-switched hot from this group of 3 goes to the shower fan/light, which now also isn't working. The problem apparently is that the supply hot for this group isn't hot.


This is the part that doesn't make sense. If there are three blacks tied together, then there cannot be a mix of switched and unswitched.. they either have to be all unswitched or all switched.

Where do the other wires connected to the switches go? Can you get a picture of the wiring in the switch box? That would be helpful.


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## jdsmith (Mar 23, 2008)

OK, mystery solved. Just called up the electricians who did the new panel, and they gave me a clue which helped tremendously. It is indeed all one circuit. The panel power comes in to the switch, goes out to the vanity light and master bedroom closet. In the closet, it goes through a GFCI outlet which was hidden, comes _back_ into the same switch box in the bathroom, and from there goes on to the lights+fan above the tub+shower. The hidden GFCI outlet in the closet (not on the GFCI outlet circuit in the bathroom) was tripped. Guess I should have moved that laundry basket first . 

It sounds like this is pretty standard master bath new construction technique, so I'm posting in case anyone else runs into this. Thanks all for your suggestions, and sorry for the wild goose chase.


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

jdsmith said:


> OK, mystery solved. Just called up the electricians who did the new panel, and they gave me a clue which helped tremendously. It is indeed all one circuit. The panel power comes in to the switch, goes out to the vanity light and master bedroom closet. In the closet, it goes through a GFCI outlet which was hidden, comes _back_ into the same switch box in the bathroom, and from there goes on to the lights+fan above the tub+shower. The hidden GFCI outlet in the closet (not on the GFCI outlet circuit in the bathroom) was tripped. Guess I should have moved that laundry basket first .
> 
> It sounds like this is pretty standard master bath new construction technique, so I'm posting in case anyone else runs into this. Thanks all for your suggestions, and sorry for the wild goose chase.


This sounds like a flagrant violation of the NEC code! The circuit that supplies power to the bathroom must remain in the bathroom. The fact that it powers a closet light and a GFCI outlet in an area outside of the bathroom and then returns to the bathroom is beyond me why any electrician would do that. Was this install inspected once the work was completed?

Unless specifically called for, the Fan and lights do NOT need GFCI protection, only the outlets do. If the manufacturers installation sheet indicates the unit needs to be GFCI protected then you are required to supply that protection. I've seen plenty of installs in a bathroom where the lights are run through the GFCI outlet, so when it trips, there is no light in the bathroom (not a very good situation).


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

The circuit he is dealing with powers only the lights for the bathroom so it may extend outside of the bathroom area. There is another circuit for the GFCI receptacles.

If he has a light/vent assembly installed inside tub/shower area, the manufacturer's instructions will require GFCI protection. It is a strange setup, but it is compliant.


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## jdtsmith (Jan 15, 2008)

Interesting. This is relatively new, inspected construction, so I'm a bit surprised to hear that (though I was surprised to find the circuit left the bathroom too -- which is why I spent many hours opening up all the boxes in it). Perhaps since the bath and master closet are adjacent (in some layouts they could be argued to be in the same room), the power is considered never to leave the bathroom. 

Seems over designed to me. Two separate GFCI protected circuits (plus one for the jacuzzi tub)?

Anyone else familiar with this method of "out and back" GFCI protection?


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