# Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?



## rgsgww

Im not an electrician, but I have done alot of splices. I strip the wires to the same length. Take a lineman's pliers while holding the bottom wires evenly, and twist the wires at the end, then twist at the ends near the insulation to twist all the wires togehter, and lightly twist in an upward motion to get them nice and tidy, and put the correct size nut on. It takes experience, ive been twisting wires together for a long time...


----------



## J. V.

If you must twist, use linemans pliers. They are designed for this. The jaws grip but do not close all the way. Designed for twisting wires.
Note: When wirenuts are properly installed, no twisting is required.


----------



## fungku

I use them when there are more than 2 wires.

I find if it is 2 wires the wirenuts do the work for you, but more than that they don't do as well. Strip the wires a little long, line them up (from the insulation and not the tips) twist together and cut them to a reasonable length. Put the wirenut on and that splice should last forever. :yes:


----------



## Ultrarunner2017

It takes practice. I have no trouble with up to 3 #12, but when I have 4 #12, it gets tough. I try not to have more than 4 wires in any splice. Having the correct length of wire in the box to work with helps tremendously. If any of them are very short, it makes the job a bear.
I also use the linesman's pliers, and start with the wires all stripped to the same length (longer than necessary).
With one hand, I try to keep the wires together, while I twist with the pliers.
After completing the twist, I cut off the excess at the tip of the splice to make sure that all wires are even, and that the nut's apron will cover all of exposed wires. If one sticks out too far, the wirenut will not go on, or may tighten around some wires, leaving the rest with only twisted, but not in the nut.
I also wrap each splice with electrician's tape. I think this takes care of the issue of the nut falling off.

I don't usually have wires of different sizes, as it's against code to use any #14 on a 20A circuit, so it's all #12. #14 is much easier, as long as all of the wires are #14.

The wirenuts I use state "no twisting required", and I suppose that as long as you are using the correct size wirenut, you can simply shove all the wires into the nut and twist.
I prefer to twist prior to installing the nut. In any case, I always give each wire a strong tug after the nut is on, just to make sure they're all secure.

Surely someone has created a sleeve that you could push down over the wires to keep them together. If it hasn't already been invented, maybe I will<g>

I am not an electrician either, but I know that I am doing things correctly, but it sure takes me a lot longer than any electrician<g>


----------



## joed

Not all electrician twist wires and not all elcetricians point wire nuts up. Must be a local thing.


----------



## handyman78

All suggestions as to "what is right" in wire pigtailing are personal opinions. The wirenuts I use say no twisting required either. When you look inside the cap this makes sense too- a sharp-edged spring cuts into the wires and bind them together, holding tightly in a taper. This would allow the conductors to be lying parallel to each other which has a good strong contact to me!


----------



## theatretch85

KE2KB said:


> I also wrap each splice with electrician's tape. I think this takes care of the issue of the nut falling off.<g>


This to me would just scream DIY. If you do the wiring correctly, there should NEVER be an issue of the wire nut falling off. I've done plenty of wiring work and have not had this issue, and I refuse to use electrical tape on the connections. The only time I tend to use electrical tape is when I am running multiple circuits through conduit, I wrap a piece of tape around the bundle of conductors for that circuit to indicate they belong together. Other reasons are for marking a black wire red or some other color when there are multiple circuits and the only wire I have is black.


----------



## Termite

A lot of electricians are using these nowadays. They're awesome for DIYers as well.

Wire nuts falling off? Only if they're somehow loosely installed or oversized for the number of wires.

Orientation of the wire nuts in a certain direction is not a requirement, and short of being neat, I don't see the point.

As for twisting, I like to twist because that's just how I learned to do it. Twisting alone isn't adequate, you must have a mechanical connection. I always twist the wires, trim the end a little, and crank down the wire nut. Pretty hard to twist anything without linesmans pliers.


----------



## HandyPete

Pig tailing wires..oh! I love this subject. I once had a team of 11 Americain electricians working for me and they all twisted their wires. THAT'S NUTS! (no pun intended)

I have gone to clinics by Ideal and 3M and both agree that the wires do not need to be twisted. In fact, if properly installed the wirenut/scothloc will actually do all the twisting for you! I've given hundreds of demonstrations to apprentices and journeymen alike and it's never the same, it's a personal choice.

-pete


----------



## Speedy Petey

HandyPete said:


> I have gone to clinics by Ideal and 3M and both agree that the wires do not need to be twisted. *In fact, if properly installed the wirenut/scothloc will actually do all the twisting for you!*


Oh man I really wanted to stay out of this thread. 

I just want to comment. The above quote is absolutely true, but (the bold part) is almost NEVER the case!

Too many morons just lining up the wires and spinning on the wire nut until it is snug. Sorry, that's NOT enough!


----------



## Wildie

Speedy Petey said:


> Oh man I really wanted to stay out of this thread.
> 
> I just want to comment. The above quote is absolutely true, but (the bold part) is almost NEVER the case!
> 
> Too many morons just lining up the wires and spinning on the wire nut until it is snug. Sorry, that's NOT enough!


 I was just going to 'lurk' also, but 20 years ago, Marret's came with instructions for their usage. (maybe they still do! I'm retired)
Manufacturers instruction were to hold the stripped conductors parallel to each other and to firmly twist the nut on to secure the connection.
I followed this regimen and never had reason to go back to twisting.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017

I didn't always twist the wires unless there were more than 3. Then I found twisting helped to keep one wire from somehow escaping the grasp of the nut. I have always did the "tug" test on the connection after installing the nuts, whether I twist or not. I have never had a splice come loose on me, but I have had "hits" on my tug test, and had to redo the splice.

After reading Rex Cauldwell's "Wiring a House", I decided to twist all splices. He is one who prefers to twist.

I'm thinking of getting a few of those screw terminal blocks pictured in the post by *thekctermite. *I have a box with 4 sets of wires coming in that I need to work on in the near future, and some of the wires may be a bit short (old work). I have to take a look, but there are times I wished I had the TB's.

In the end, we're all a bit TWISTED :laughing:


----------



## Speedy Petey

Those are not screw terminal blocks. They are quick wire connections. Ideal and Wago are the two big suppliers.

The concept of them has had a VERY bad reputation over the years in the form of quickwire, or backstab, receptacles. These little things seem to have a much better reputation though. I may have to get a bunch of them to try.


----------



## HouseHelper

Speedy Petey said:


> Those are not screw terminal blocks. They are quick wire connections. Ideal and Wago are the two big suppliers.
> 
> The concept of them has had a VERY bad reputation over the years in the form of quickwire, or backstab, receptacles. These little things seem to have a much better reputation though. I may have to get a bunch of them to try.


Try some Petey. I think you will like them. They are great in those applications where wires are too short, or you want to connect 6-8 wires together without using a big blue wirenut.


----------



## Termite

Wago wal-nuts (or the Ideal ones) are really great. I'm the last guy who'll ever use the stabs on the back of a device, and these do work under the same basic principal. Strip the wires, stick them in, nothing to tighten. I saw so many electricians using them I finally got a handful and tried them, and lost my skepticism. They are especially great in lieu of a big blue wire nut, as mentioned. They make a clean nifty looking installation too.

I've installed a number of devices in my house with them, and especially recommend them to DIYers tackling their own device and fixture replacements. 

For DIYers, Ideal makes an assortment pack of all the different sizes for 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 wires. They're color coded too. You can get them at box stores. 

They're more money than wire nuts are, so aren't necessarily something I use on every job in large quantity. I still like good old wire nuts for about 75% of my connections. But for tough installations, short wires, or big bundles of wires, I keep a handful in the bag.


----------



## fungku

All I know is that when I'm using multiple wires (3+), when not twisting the "pull test" is passed around 98% of the time. If I twist the wires the "pull test" passes 100% of the time.


----------



## jamiedolan

As for twisting, I like to twist because that's just how I learned to do it. Twisting alone isn't adequate, you must have a mechanical connection. I always twist the wires, trim the end a little, and crank down the wire nut. Pretty hard to twist anything without linesmans pliers.

I agree, this is exactly what I do. I was thinking of switching to those wire nuts that you crimp on, because honestly once the wires are twisted together and I trim the end, it really isn't ever going to be safe to take that nut off and add to it, they really need to be cut and re-striped. The non-removable wire nuts seem like a good idea..

Jamie


----------



## Wildie

thekctermite said:


> Wago wal-nuts (or the Ideal ones) are really great. I'm the last guy who'll ever use the stabs on the back of a device, and these do work under the same basic principal. Strip the wires, stick them in, nothing to tighten. I saw so many electricians using them I finally got a handful and tried them, and lost my skepticism. They are especially great in lieu of a big blue wire nut, as mentioned. They make a clean nifty looking installation too.
> 
> I've installed a number of devices in my house with them, and especially recommend them to DIYers tackling their own device and fixture replacements.
> 
> For DIYers, Ideal makes an assortment pack of all the different sizes for 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 wires. They're color coded too. You can get them at box stores.
> 
> They're more money than wire nuts are, so aren't necessarily something I use on every job in large quantity. I still like good old wire nuts for about 75% of my connections. But for tough installations, short wires, or big bundles of wires, I keep a handful in the bag.


 I'm unfamiliar with these. Out of the loop I suppose. 
Can the conductors be released individually? This would be real convienient.
I remember when crimp connectors were popular in the 70's and would cringe when I had to open connections for fault clearing!
The conductors seemed to get shorter and shorter!


----------



## J. V.

HouseHelper said:


> They are great in those applications where wires are too short, or you want to connect 6-8 wires together without using a big blue wirenut.


Connect 6-8 wires together, Househelper, I know you plan better than that.


----------



## HouseHelper

J. V. said:


> Connect 6-8 wires together, Househelper, I know you plan better than that.


I plan better than that, but in remodel work, you find others have not planned as well. The simple solution often requires doing things in creative ways (but always code compliant).:yes:


----------



## 220/221

Most electricians only twist in certain conditions. New wire doesn't require twisting. Wire nuts *can't* fall off if installed correctly (tight).

It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.


----------



## handyman78

220/221 said:


> Most electricians only twist in certain conditions. New wire doesn't require twisting. Wire nuts *can't* fall off if installed correctly (tight).
> 
> It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.


Agreed! It is so much easier to hold 3-4 wires parallel then place the wire nut tightly over the ends.


----------



## Speedy Petey

220/221 said:


> It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.


SO.

At the risk of prolonging this tired debate, the above is only true of you make it so.
I do NOT find twisting even 6 or 7 wires "tricky" at all. Then again, I do this every day for a living. I would not assume the same for a DIY'er.

I'll reiterate my stance. The end result should be the same.
The wire should look the same if the nut is removed. Either you do the twisting before, or do it with the wire nut on.

If I remove a wire nut, and the wires are all still straight, I'm coming to find you and make you eat the wire nut! :furious:

(The "you" is rhetorical.)


----------



## DangerMouse

i'm with you pete. but ya gotta make them eat the wires too, i hear they have more fibre than just eating the nuts....simply amazed how far this thread has gone.... i twist, snip and screw then tape. how simple is that?

DM


----------



## InPhase277

It seems like this old dead horse won't die. It pops up time and again on countless forums and I myself have been involved with several hot debates on the actual jobsite about this very subject.

If I were asked (I have not been) to make a decision once and for all, I would make it a code requirement to twist the wires when using the type of connectors we call wirenuts. This isn't a preference based on some nostalgic bent like "that's how I was taught to do it". No. I have seen way too many taps (as electricians call them) that pop open when you untwist the wirenut. I call them "flowers" because they blossom. And these are taps made by so-called "journeymen electricians". Fact is, it takes no more effort to twist the conductors with your kleins than it does to crank a wirenut down tight enough to be effective. In fact, it probably takes more effort to twist a wirenut that tight due to the short radius of the "lever arm". Your kleins have a larger radius, and thus can develop more torque with less effort.

A quick story: When you are a young foreman on a job, and your crew consists of guys who are often older than you, you have a hard enough job. So when I mandated to my guys that we twist our wires first, oh well, here come the whines and protests and assurances from a few that they had never had a problem before and it was perfectly fine the way they did it. It all started when I opened a j-box to add a circuit. What I found was a melted mass of plastic. Keep in mind this was a new job
, power hadn't been on that circuit for long. I was a little perturbed. I started cleaning the mess out and discovered that not a single wire was enough to make a good connection. Just snugging the wirenut means that the current must flow through a small contact area and the spring in the nut itself. In fact the wires were arcing as I was removing the cover from the box. I started checking up on my journeymens' taps. That really pissed them off. I found that better than 50% were not up to snuff.

So I laid down the law. Most fell into line. But this one guy, right around my age and thinking he should be where I am, but not talented enough to hold my jock strap, takes it as his personal mission to do directly opposite of everything I said. Unless I was watching. I crept up on him one day while he was about to make up a switch box, and caught him just snugging his wirenuts on. I told him pull it out and redo it. He refused. I pulled the wires out and started to show him how I want it. He snatches my kleins away. Oh hell.

It ended with "get your f****** tools and get in your f****** truck and don't ever come to this MFing job again"


----------



## DangerMouse

"Just snugging the wirenut means that the current must flow through a small contact area and the spring in the nut itself." bingo.
can it die now?

DM


----------



## dw1256

I have been reading through this thead from a few years ago trying to figure out how to twist wires together. 

On all of these forums the same thing happens, everyone starts to debate whether wires should be twisted or not. 

I have the same question as the person that started the thread, how do you successfully twist wires together? I don't want to debate if you should or not, but the best technique to get the best result.

Any help would be great.
dw1256


----------



## brric

Linemen's pliers, turning in a clockwise direction. It is a technique that requires practice.


----------



## dw1256

Here is my issue in a little more detail. Let's say I am twisting 4 #12 wires together. As I twist, the two outer wires start to point in an outwards direction and I can't seem to bring them all back together.

Does that make sense?
dw1256


----------



## Leah Frances

With four I make an 'X' -- *// crossed over by \\ *-- this way, when you start to twist them they bundle together (if you do \\ with // on top and twist 'righty-tighty' the first thing that happens is it all falls apart). I find that with 4+ #12 *I have to twist a half or so, open my linemans, reposition, and twist again to keep all four doing what they should. For me, this ends up as a sort of 'chewing' motion of the pliers. * After two or three 'bites' the twist is usually stable enough to twist the rest without re-setting the pliers.

Go to Lowes (or wherever) buy some #12 cut it into a bunch of 12 inch lengths and sit down in front of the TV and start practicing. Twist three together, cut of the splice and repeat, twist four together, etc. 

Like most things in life to do it right you have to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. This is a challenge for DIYers because we haven't done 10,000 twists so the muscle memory isn't there. 

** Also, sometimes I just can't get splices to work (tired/frustrated/bad angle/whatever) sometimes you just have to cut it off and start over. Which is why it's so important you leave yourself enough slack...

Also, I'm a girl and have small hands. Small linemans work WAY better for me. I started re-wiring with my Dad's lineman's (and he was a Lineman) they are so big, I just end up with hand cramps and messy work. I'd bet a pro would laugh at me when I pull my girly ones out of my tool bag, but they work for me, and that's all that matters.


----------



## andrew79

Leah Frances said:


> With four I make an 'X' -- *// crossed over by \\ *-- this way, when you start to twist them they bundle together (if you do \\ with // on top and twist 'righty-tighty' the first thing that happens is it all falls apart). I find that with 4+ #12 *I have to twist a half or so, open my linemans, reposition, and twist again to keep all four doing what they should. For me, this ends up as a sort of 'chewing' motion of the pliers. *After two or three 'bites' the twist is usually stable enough to twist the rest without re-setting the pliers.
> 
> Go to Lowes (or wherever) buy some #12 cut it into a bunch of 12 inch lengths and sit down in front of the TV and start practicing. Twist three together, cut of the splice and repeat, twist four together, etc.
> 
> Like most things in life to do it right you have to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. This is a challenge for DIYers because we haven't done 10,000 twists so the muscle memory isn't there.
> 
> ** Also, sometimes I just can't get splices to work (tired/frustrated/bad angle/whatever) sometimes you just have to cut it off and start over. Which is why it's so important you leave yourself enough slack...
> 
> Also, I'm a girl and have small hands. Small linemans work WAY better for me. I started re-wiring with my Dad's lineman's (and he was a Lineman) they are so big, I just end up with hand cramps and messy work. I'd bet a pro would laugh at me when I pull my girly ones out of my tool bag, but they work for me, and that's all that matters.


:laughing: the last highrise building i was on we had a new apprentice who was female....5 feet tall and about 90lbs....and she put most of the guys to shame. You get used to the big pliers after awhile, but you never get used to seeing 5 feet 90 lbs throwing around a ten foot ladder with one arm :laughing:


----------



## dw1256

Leah Frances said:


> With four I make an 'X' -- *// crossed over by \\ *-- this way, when you start to twist them they bundle together (if you do \\ with // on top and twist 'righty-tighty' the first thing that happens is it all falls apart). I find that with 4+ #12 *I have to twist a half or so, open my linemans, reposition, and twist again to keep all four doing what they should. For me, this ends up as a sort of 'chewing' motion of the pliers. *After two or three 'bites' the twist is usually stable enough to twist the rest without re-setting the pliers.
> 
> Go to Lowes (or wherever) buy some #12 cut it into a bunch of 12 inch lengths and sit down in front of the TV and start practicing. Twist three together, cut of the splice and repeat, twist four together, etc.
> 
> Like most things in life to do it right you have to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. This is a challenge for DIYers because we haven't done 10,000 twists so the muscle memory isn't there.
> 
> ** Also, sometimes I just can't get splices to work (tired/frustrated/bad angle/whatever) sometimes you just have to cut it off and start over. Which is why it's so important you leave yourself enough slack...
> 
> Also, I'm a girl and have small hands. Small linemans work WAY better for me. I started re-wiring with my Dad's lineman's (and he was a Lineman) they are so big, I just end up with hand cramps and messy work. I'd bet a pro would laugh at me when I pull my girly ones out of my tool bag, but they work for me, and that's all that matters.


With 5 wires would you do the same thing but one side would just have one extra wire? Or do you use another technique for more than 4?

dw1256


----------



## Scuba_Dave

I just hold the wires together & let the World revolve around me to tighten them


----------



## jlhaslip

I pay $65.00 per hour to have a Sparky do it.


----------



## andrew79

jlhaslip said:


> I pay $65.00 per hour to have a Sparky do it.


the B.C boys must be making more than we are then :laughing:


----------



## Leah Frances

dw1256 said:


> With 5 wires would you do the same thing but one side would just have one extra wire? Or do you use another technique for more than 4?
> 
> dw1256


Oh, I've done five - I 'skin' them longer so I have more to work with then:
// under \\\ over. 

PRACTICE.


----------



## Leah Frances

Scuba_Dave said:


> I just hold the wires together & let the World revolve around me to tighten them


:laughing:


----------



## spark plug

joed said:


> Not all electrician twist wires and not all elcetricians point wire nuts up. Must be a local thing.


Yes! It's a local thing. Where all professionals (Those who are doing a professional job) reside. In all 50 (Or is it 51?:laughing:!) States and10 Provinces (& Territories)!


----------



## spark plug

DangerMouse said:


> i'm with you pete. but ya gotta make them eat the wires too, i hear they have more fibre than just eating the nuts....simply amazed how far this thread has gone.... i twist, snip and screw then tape. how simple is that?
> 
> DM


The "Tape" part is not necessary. Unless you're dealing with old wires and fragile insulation:yes:!


----------



## spark plug

Scuba_Dave said:


> I just hold the wires together & let the World revolve around me to tighten them


I have nothing to add. Just this:yes::laughing::yes:!


----------



## nap

I generally use stranded wire and do not twist them at all other than what the wirenut twists them.

In fact, when I do solid, I rarely twist them unless they fight me. When you twist the wire nut adequately, it will twist the wires. I often will simply squeeze the wires together to compact the bundle but don't generally twist them.

one thing I have found is using the proper sized wirenut is very important. I do not use the nuts to their max capacity per the chart that comes with them. When I reach towards the upper end of the fill chart, the next size up generally works better. 




> The "Tape" part is not necessary. Unless you're dealing with old wires and fragile insulation!


and if I catch anybody taping the joints, I will use 3 rolls of 33+ to wrap you with. It makes for the nastiest mess, is not recommended by any dependable source, and does nothing for the joint.

Obviously the use spark plug listed is a repair of the insulation and is not to hold the joint together.

and what direction to point the nuts;

who cares? If installed properly, they are not coming off and I am not going to worry which way they point due to somebody else not being able to install them properly so they worry about them coming off.



> jlhaslip I pay $65.00 per hour to have a Sparky do it.


You would have a hard time finding anybody to take that on around here. Your cost of living must be lower than ours and considerably lower than Chicago's (the closest major metro area to me).


----------



## Leah Frances

I twist ('cause that's how Dad taught me to do it), but I don't tape wire nuts on. I agree with Nap = messy.

I used to never tape switches either because it's also messy - then I shorted a screwdriver against a metal box and a switch (yes, I'm an idiot). Now I tape switches. 

And, because I was a bad girl... NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT.


----------



## nap

> I used to never tape switches either because it's also messy - then I shorted a screwdriver against a metal box and a switch (yes, I'm an idiot). Now I tape switches.


I have actually had taping switches and receps spec's in a job; 2 wraps of black vinyl electrical grade tape.

I usually don't wrap devices though. That's messy for when you have to unwrap it to do some work.



> And, because I was a bad girl... NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT. NEVER WORK HOT.


it's nice when you can. Not always possible. I always try to kill the power so it doesn't kill me.:wink: Been zapped a few too many times. 277 tends to hurt... a lot.


----------



## andrew79

ideal used to make a grey wire nut that a 5/8's nutdriver would fit on....it was spec'd as a size 33 but it would hold alot more than that...they've since introduced a rounded blue "canadian" version here. Wondering if they still have them in the U.S as they are a wingnut style and will twist the wires up better the any set of plyers will with less damage to the copper.They were advertised as universal and they weren't far off the mark. They'll hold on a single 14 for capping purposes and aren't strained with 4 number 12's.


----------



## andrew79

found em


----------



## AllanJ

When I twist the wires, by the time I get a twisted splice that will stay together by itself (good mechanical connection) it is too long to fit in a wire nut.

I think those no-twist wire nuts are marvelous. I gave up on twisting of most joints and a shorter end of each conductor has to be bared and the wire nuts stay on "good". The secret is ths square cross section spring wire inside. That bites into the conductors and both improves the electrical contact (bonding) and keeps the wire nut from ever slipping off (unless untwisted).

But for more than four conductors I go back to twisting because here one conductor will be "in the middle"and not bitten into by the wire nut spring. I have to use tape around the skirt of the wire nut because the bare wire is exposed there.


----------



## Snav

I use safety-wire pliers and twist 6" to the end together.
Trying to just hold the wires and hand-twist drives me nuts - for safety-wire pliers you just clamp and pull the stop, it does the twisting for you, voila.

I also use them for making twisted wire jewelry  They're a multi-purpose tool and I have several sizes.


----------



## Leah Frances

AllanJ said:


> When I twist the wires, by the time I get a twisted splice that will stay together by itself (good mechanical connection) it is too long to fit in a wire nut.
> 
> I think those no-twist wire nuts are marvelous. I gave up on twisting of most joints and a shorter end of each conductor has to be bared and the wire nuts stay on "good". The secret is ths square cross section spring wire inside. That bites into the conductors and both improves the electrical contact (bonding) and keeps the wire nut from ever slipping off (unless untwisted).
> 
> But for more than four conductors I go back to twisting because here one conductor will be "in the middle"and not bitten into by the wire nut spring. I have to use tape around the skirt of the wire nut because the bare wire is exposed there.


AllanJ - When I am splicing 4+ wires at a time I skin them extra long so the twist is easier to make. Then I trim the splice so it fits nicely into the wirenut. 

I would never wrap tape around bare wire that was exposed, just cut the splice shorter.


----------



## andrew79

If you twist up a joint with those marrette's pictured above when you take the marette off you can actually see where it "threaded" itself on the wires. Best wire nut on the market....a little more costly though.


----------



## dw1256

Leah Frances said:


> AllanJ - When I am splicing 4+ wires at a time I skin them extra long so the twist is easier to make. Then I trim the splice so it fits nicely into the wirenut.
> 
> I would never wrap tape around bare wire that was exposed, just cut the splice shorter.


How much do you skin off? Also, when you are twisting the wires, should the wires be twisting all the way up or just the exposed wire?


----------



## nap

here is a little way for all of you folks to determine if the wire nut is on tight enough. After you do all of your twisting, pull on each individual wire trying to pull it from the nut.

Now, once you have done that with all of your pre- twisting, try it without pre-twisting the wires and try pulling them out.



btw: when you install a wire nut properly, the wires outside of the nut will be twisted as well as the portion inside the nut will be twisted as well, even if you do not pre-twist.

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE PACKAGE


----------



## plummen

theatretch85 said:


> This to me would just scream DIY. If you do the wiring correctly, there should NEVER be an issue of the wire nut falling off. I've done plenty of wiring work and have not had this issue, and I refuse to use electrical tape on the connections. The only time I tend to use electrical tape is when I am running multiple circuits through conduit, I wrap a piece of tape around the bundle of conductors for that circuit to indicate they belong together. Other reasons are for marking a black wire red or some other color when there are multiple circuits and the only wire I have is black.


I tape my wirenuts sometimes,i also wrap tape around my plugs and switches before installing into boxes.
Does that make me a do it yourselfer? I just started my 30th year in the trades! :laughing:
And I dont twist my wires before installing wire nuts,ive seen too many nicked wires from linemans pliers over the years


----------



## nap

plummen said:


> Does that make me a do it yourselfer? I just started my 30th year in the trades! :laughing:


no but it does mean you would be the guy that got his lunchbox wrapped with 33+ and then maybe even painted with scotchkote if I had to undo your gooey mess.:laughing:

if somebody can provide a justification for taping the joint, I might understand by there is no reason. It does not provide any purpose to a properly installed wire nut joint.


----------



## plummen

I picked it up when i was younger working around nasty old packing plants,those cleaning guys can get water in places you wouldnt think was physically possible! :laughing:
I picked up the wrapping the plugs/switches around the same time from pulling stuff out of metal boxes all the time,got tired of bumping things when i wasnt paying attention or in a hurry. Those production guys get all pissy when you start killing their power when your making repairs when their trying to meet their quota!
Youd really love the way I stack my romex going through walls and zip tie them all together! :laughing:


----------



## nap

plummen said:


> Those production guys get all pissy when you start killing their power when your making repairs when their trying to meet their quota!
> :


that's nothing. Kill an office with about 20 women working in it. You would think you took all their bonus money by the way they complain. :whistling2:




> I picked it up when i was younger working around nasty old packing plants,those cleaning guys can get water in places you wouldnt think was physically possible


!and nobody figure to use the proper materials such as raintight or water proof boxes and such. I know, I know. They cost so much more than the regular everyday stuff. Of course, they never figure in the downtime costs when everything gets soaked with water or how much it costs to pay off a wrongful death lawsuit.

the thing is, I have never seen a taped up wire nut that was waterproof. I don't know how many times I have pulled taped wirenuts out of ground boxes with the nuts either full of water or at least a lot of moisture in them.


----------



## plummen

ive worked around some cheap places in the past! :laughing:


----------



## busman

J. V. said:


> If you must twist, use linemans pliers. They are designed for this. The jaws grip but do not close all the way. .


Actually, that's not the reason the jaws don't close all the way. They are designed this way so that the cutting jaws DO close all the way before the jaws of the pliers come together. The small gap that's left in the pliers is smaller than even a #14 wire, so it doesn't affect grip on a wire.

Mark


----------



## Wildie

*Electrician Retired*

I have used all of the above methods of connecting wire. My preferred method is to hold all the stripped ends together in a parallel manner! Then I twist the wire nut on, twisting the wire until the insulated section has a couple of turns.

In some cases, I have run tape over the wire and wirenut to prevent it from shaking off, in an environment prone to vibration.
Tape is no good for water-proofing a connection, because the water runs in, in between the wire insulation, where they come together!
However, I have used tape by spreading the conductors and entwining the tape around each conductor, then painting the whole lot with Scotch Coat!
I've used this method, for connecting conductors for parking lot lighting, and found it to be successful. In this application, I try to turn the joint, so that water will run away from the connection, rather than into it.


----------



## nap

Wildie said:


> I have used all of the above methods of connecting wire. My preferred method is to hold all the stripped ends together in a parallel manner! Then I twist the wire nut on, twisting the wire until the insulated section has a couple of turns.
> 
> In some cases, I have run tape over the wire and wirenut to prevent it from shaking off, in an environment prone to vibration.
> Tape is no good for water-proofing a connection, because the water runs in, in between the wire insulation, where they come together!
> However, I have used tape by spreading the conductors and entwining the tape around each conductor, then painting the whole lot with Scotch Coat!
> I've used this method, for connecting conductors for parking lot lighting, and found it to be successful. In this application, I try to turn the joint, so that water will run away from the connection, rather than into it.


In reference to the tape addition for vibration: if you believe the wirenut is not adequate for the environment, I would suggest a different method of termination, not trying to make an inadequate system work.

and while the tape and scotchkote does generally provide an adequately sealed joint, how about wirenuts that are rated for wet locations?


----------



## Wildie

nap said:


> In reference to the tape addition for vibration: if you believe the wirenut is not adequate for the environment, I would suggest a different method of termination, not trying to make an inadequate system work.
> 
> and while the tape and scotchkote does generally provide an adequately sealed joint, how about wirenuts that are rated for wet locations?


 That would be nice, but in reality, you use what you have on hand. Customers hate paying for travel time. Especially, if they are anxious to get a problem fixed, yesterday!


----------



## nap

Wildie said:


> That would be nice, but in reality, you use what you have on hand. Customers hate paying for travel time. Especially, if they are anxious to get a problem fixed, yesterday!


well, what can I say. I try to keep a decent stock of all the materials I might use in normal work plus, when I am given a job, I try to consider what the job might require so I can grab it before I go to the job.

I can't help it if one does not adequately prepare for a job. I know you can't have everything but until you do, you keep trying to reach that goal.


----------



## frenchelectrican

This is pretty instering thread about wirenuts and how it done for myself I useally pretwist it so it will hold up better however there are very limited spots that I will put a electrique tape on it only spot is useally found in motor peckerhead { motour junction box } 

otherwise I go with Polairs connector for peckerhead box set up.

In Europe wirenut is not super widespread as you think it more common to find choc block aka wire termail barrel connector.

As far for Wago connectors it kinda toss up in France we use a bit but Myself I never like it too much if you want to remove that  connector.

Merci,Marc


----------

