# Anderson 'A' series windows.



## razzorm

Anderson 'A' series double hung window problem.

***Moderator edited*** http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/how-site-not-why-i-hate-product-site-37099/


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## LMPD

Where the windows vinyl, aluminum or wood? Just curious.


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## razzorm

*Window type*

Window is vinyl new construction.


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## Windows on Wash

While Andersen makes a decent wood window when you get into their 400 series, their vinyl and replacement windows (RBA) are just average if not below.

Sorry to hear of your issues.


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## joecaption

One of the many reasons I will not deal with Anderson or Pella.


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## Tom Struble

razzorm said:


> Window is vinyl new construction.



A- series is all Fiberex not vinyl


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## Windows on Wash

Tom Struble said:


> A- series is all Fiberex not vinyl


+1

Fibrex (albeit mostly vinyl by constitution although they trash vinyl).


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## HomeSealed

Razz, open the upper and lower sash so that you can see about 1/4" of light on each. Are those reveals even all the way across? 

It is standard procedures for most if not all manufacturers to ship the windows unlocked. This usually does make for a harder lock until the seals break-in, however it should improve relatively quickly.


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## oberon

Andersen A series is pultruded fiberglass not fibrex except for the jamb liners.

100 series is fibrex


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## Tom Struble

thanks for straightening me out Oberon


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## rossfingal

What it looks like from your 2nd picture - the latch-side, of the sash-lock -
is not installed in the right place.
(Too close to the upper sash)
This can happen with any manufacturer - dozens.
Remove the latch/lever side -
Fill the existing screw holes -
Let the filler set up -
Close the window -
Position the lever and engage the lock -
Carefully mark the position of the new screw-holes (Sharp, center-punch) 
Pre-drill the new screw holes (Carefully! - with a drill size smaller than the
thickness of the screws -do not drill too deep!) -
Reinstall the latch.
Do not over-tighten the screws!!!!
We've had to do this way too many times!!!

If you're not comfortable doing this - find a "Window and Door", person
in your area and have them look at it.
(Probably, don't mention this to "Customer Service"!!!) 
(Andersen - "Customer Service" ????!!!) Huh!!!???
This problem is not uncommon!

rossfingal


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## razzorm

*Moving the sash lock*

To Rossfingal

Yours is a good sugestion but--
The sash lock when turned the oposite way of locking the window pulls in the tabs on the outside of the sash that allows the lower sash to tilt in for cleaning.
I have removed the sash lock screws and there is no movement allowed in the sash lock.

I like the window overall but this issue with thier top line window just is not satisfactory to me.

I need 12 more windows but I don't think they will be Anderson.

Anderson customer service is a joke. They submit my concerns to the area Anderson rep. who tells them it is a customer issue and cancels the service call.


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## HomeSealed

Razz, what is the answer to my previous question?: 
"Razz, open the upper and lower sash so that you can see about 1/4" of light on each. Are those reveals even all the way across?"

Please post pics if possible, as it will either confirm your strong, negative opinions on the product, or expose a poor installation.


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## razzorm

*To HomeSealed*

Added pictures to show that window is square, level and plumb.


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## WendyG

*A Series*

My name is Wendy and I work at Andersen. I would liketo talk with you about your window situation. Please contact me @651-264-5963.


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## oberon

Tom Struble said:


> thanks for straightening me out Oberon


No Truble Tom (okay, I so could not resist...I am truly sorry for that :laughing


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## razzorm

*Talked to Wendy @ Anderson*

I talked to Wendy @ Anderson on 12/15. She agrees that my window seems to have an issue. She said said she will look into the problem and get back to me. 
I will keep you updated...


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## HomeSealed

That is good news... The reveals look good in your pics, so I don't see the installation causing the probs that you've described.


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## razzorm

*Window to be fixed*

Wendy from Anderson called today (12/20) and said someone will come to fix my window after the first of the year.
That is very reasonable.
Will post the results next year.

Thanks Wendy


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## JackOfAllTrades

joecaption said:


> One of the many reasons I will not deal with Anderson or Pella.


What manufacturer would you recommend? 

Is Milguard any good?


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## Windows on Wash

JackOfAllTrades said:


> What manufacturer would you recommend?
> 
> Is Milguard any good?


For what material?


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## JackOfAllTrades

Windows on Wash said:


> For what material?


Fiberglass windows


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## Windows on Wash

They are okay.

I have used them on several projects. They burned me on one and I couldn't collect the balance on a project because they leaked air and could not fix them.

I would not use them personally when there are other suppliers out there with a more well engineered product like Inline or Marvin.

They tend to run on the bulky side on their old one but they supposedly have a new one out or coming out that is really nice.

I will relay this one story. I had a customer who was deciding between their fiberglass window with the wood interior and a Pella Architect wood window. The customer in this case actually grew up in Washington state and was familiar and a sort of friend with the Milgard family owners. As a result, he wanted to consider their product along with any others. 

They shipped me a new sample and I unboxed/wrapped it at the customer's home.

As the reveal was about to be complete for it fantastic unveiling.....it didn't work!!!! The balance assembly was all mangled and it was not something that could have been done in shipping. This was something that got missed on quality control. Go figure.

I think you can probably guess what product the customer went with. :no:


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## JackOfAllTrades

Windows on Wash said:


> They are okay.
> 
> I have used them on several projects. They burned me on one and I couldn't collect the balance on a project because they leaked air and could not fix them.
> 
> I would not use them personally when there are other suppliers out there with a more well engineered product like Inline or Marvin.
> 
> They tend to run on the bulky side on their old one but they supposedly have a new one out or coming out that is really nice.
> 
> I will relay this one story. I had a customer who was deciding between their fiberglass window with the wood interior and a Pella Architect wood window. The customer in this case actually grew up in Washington state and was familiar and a sort of friend with the Milgard family owners. As a result, he wanted to consider their product along with any others.
> 
> They shipped me a new sample and I unboxed/wrapped it at the customer's home.
> 
> As the reveal was about to be complete for it fantastic unveiling.....it didn't work!!!! The balance assembly was all mangled and it was not something that could have been done in shipping. This was something that got missed on quality control. Go figure.
> 
> I think you can probably guess what product the customer went with. :no:


I have vinyl windows but they tend to warp out in the Arizona sun. Aluminum windows work better but what about the thermal break? Wood exterior in Arizona is a disaster waiting to happen. So what is one left with? 

There are people here who despise Pella and then there are some who love Pella. The same goes for Anderson and for all of them. There is no clear consensus on windows. 

One thing for certain, all of them have a cruddy line that is used in most tract homes. Cheap windows that perform OK for the first 5-10 years and then fail. In a custom home one needs to buy the upper series of windows. They never put in the good windows in tract/spec homes.


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## Windows on Wash

JackOfAllTrades said:


> I have vinyl windows but they tend to warp out in the Arizona sun. Aluminum windows work better but what about the thermal break?


You are using the wrong vinyl window then. The heat of deformation should never be approached, even in Arizona. 

Good vinyl does fine in those climates but Aluminum is much more commonplace. It needs to be thermally broken like you suggested or it is a big hole in the side of the home.


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## DangerMouse

Please DO let us know if/when this was resolved by Wendy.

Thanks!

DM


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## razzorm

Waiting for call from Wendy at Anderson.
Today is Thur. 1/5/11. If I don't hear from Wendy by Mon. 1/9 I'm going to call her.

Ray M.


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## DangerMouse

Thanks Ray, tens of thousands await the results.... 

Wendy? Are you listening?

DM


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## JackOfAllTrades

Windows on Wash said:


> You are using the wrong vinyl window then. The heat of deformation should never be approached, even in Arizona.
> 
> Good vinyl does fine in those climates but Aluminum is much more commonplace. It needs to be thermally broken like you suggested or it is a big hole in the side of the home.


I didn't buy or install these windows, it came with the "tract" home. The sun really faded the vinyl window strips on the outside. Plastics do not tend to do well in the AZ sun. Even plastic & vinyl fencing out here gets warped and brittle from the sun. 

Here in PHX our car battery life is only 2-3 years, compared to 5-7 years in other states. Our tire life is only 3-4 years, compared to 5-7 years in other states. The sun is brutal on everything, and vinyl is no exception. The only thing that can take the sun is masonry and metal. 

That is why I am interested to see how fiberglass reacts to the sun.


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## Windows on Wash

JackOfAllTrades said:


> I didn't buy or install these windows, it came with the "tract" home. The sun really faded the vinyl window strips on the outside. Plastics do not tend to do well in the AZ sun. Even plastic & vinyl fencing out here gets warped and brittle from the sun.
> 
> Here in PHX our car battery life is only 2-3 years, compared to 5-7 years in other states. Our tire life is only 3-4 years, compared to 5-7 years in other states. The sun is brutal on everything, and vinyl is no exception. The only thing that can take the sun is masonry and metal.
> 
> That is why I am interested to see how fiberglass reacts to the sun.


You and I both know that a builder will use the cheapest stuff that he can get so I would not base my opinion on vinyl windows in desert applications on a new construction experience.

That being said, there are great alternatives to vinyl for high exposure regions. Fiberglass will be fine as long as the exterior finish remains intact. Exposed fiberglass and resins will be similarly deteriorated by the sun.


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## razzorm

Rep. from Anderson came today 2/3/12 and replaced the sash lock. Absolutely no change in the way the window locks. I'll live with this window but the next 12 that I buy will not be Anderson, quality doesn't seem to be there for the premium price.

Thanks Wendy for your efforts.


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## DangerMouse

.....and Thank YOU for the follow up.

.....this is where I *usually* say "We love a happy ending here."

DM


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## HomeSealed

At this point, I'd recommend going the route that rossfingal mentioned on the first page. The lock is likely mounted incorrectly and thats why the sashes push apart when you lock them. Just move it in (toward the interior). You shouldn't have to move it much, so the original holes should be covered... That, OR, you could hold Andersen accountable and have them send you a new sash (maybe even both just to make sure). Obviously the rep who installed the new lock was not competent enough to figure that out.


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## razzorm

I wish moving the sash lock was possible but it isn't. It is not just a flush mount, a round nylon cylinder is attached to the bottom of it that is recessed into the top of the sash. This attaches to a string that operates the tabs allowing the window to tilt in. Hole in top of sash is not big enough for any movement of the lock. I will inform my contact at Anderson of the situation but I don't expect any action from them. As I mentioned no more "A" series windows for me, probably will go with Marvin for the rest of my project.


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## HomeSealed

You may have covered this already, but is there any air leakage at the meeting rail when you lock it? If not, you're right, Andersen will probably just say that it is functioning as designed. 
Can that hole be bored out a little bit so that the lock can be moved (and still be covered)? 

If the only symptom is the slight separation when locked, and there is no air leakage, or major difficulty locking it, then you may just have to deal with it. If OTOH, you do experience one of those, I'd keep on them and insist on new sashes.


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## JackOfAllTrades

razzorm said:


> Rep. from Anderson came today 2/3/12 and replaced the sash lock. Absolutely no change in the way the window locks. I'll live with this window but the next 12 that I buy will not be Anderson, quality doesn't seem to be there for the premium price.


Here is what I learned from my experience and research. ALL window manufacturers are hurting because of the economy. Milgard just closed down a few plants and laid-off hundreds of workers. In order to say afloat, companies are downsizing and trying to save costs on manufacturing, unfortunately this means quality does go down. Anderson is no different. The same marketing & economic principles apply to them. 

I prefer the tried & true design of fixed & casement windows. I am NOT a fan of slider or single hung windows. Sliders are by-far the worst design when it comes to energy leaks and water leaks. Every slider I have seen allows for scorpions, cockroaches, and a host of other bugs to get into their track system. I have yet to see a casement window that allowed a bug to enter. It all comes down to the design, sliders by nature must allow for water drainage and window sliding movement, this creates gaps and other problems. 

Manufacturers usually put all their efforts in QC on their HIGH END windows, as these carry the lifetime warranties and go into high-end homes where they are showcased. These "flagship" windows typically have the better parts & better engineering. The low end and even middle-grade windows from all manufacturers is where the manufacturer looks to cut expenses, which results in some QC issues. 

In the end, all window manufacturers are alike in their business models. Whether Anderson, Pella, Milgard, M&I, etc., they all have their problems. The main thing is you want a company that will most likely be around 10 years from now when you need to make a claim.


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## razzorm

There is no air leakage between the sash so I am going to leave things as they are. As far as working on the size of the hole under the lock to move it back, I don't want to do that because it would probably void my warranty should the galss ever go bad.

I am going to call my contact at Anderson tomorrow and let them know the results of the new sash lock. If they choose to pursue it fine, otherwise I will just live with it.


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## razzorm

Anderson is still willing work with me to try to fix my window.
New top sash has been ordered. Will be a couple of weeks to get made and delivered.

Will keep this thread informed as to how that goes.


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## HomeSealed

Well, its good to see that they are still working on it... Did they say why they ordered the top sash but not the bottom? ... I'm not intimately familiar with that window, but by your pics and description I would diagnose the bottom as being more likely to be the culprit.


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## JackOfAllTrades

Most people don't realize this but those who travel abroad and who are in the building trades know that the best residential windows in the world are made by *Germany*. Those windows make Pella, Anderson, etc., look like cheaply made flea market windows. I kid you not. If you ever seen a residential German made window, it's triple gasket, triple pane, R-10 Value, yes you read that right, I said* R-10*, the way it latches and closes secure like a bank vault, you will never look at windows the same way again.

The Canadians come in 2nd in window quality. A lot less expensive than German windows but the Canadian windows are still night & day above any American windows. 

There are some American window companies that are starting to compete with the Canadians in window quality.


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## razzorm

I agree with you Home Sealed. The mounting of the keeper allows for no movement in or out. The placement of the hole under the sash lock seems to be the only way to make this adjustment. Contact at Anderson said new bottom sash will be ordered if top sash does not fix it.
I beleive that a better designed sash lock with more cam angle on it to pull windows together once lock engages the keeper would work.


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