# inventionhome



## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Having your own patent is nice, but it's expensive to file, because you have to pay for a search of past patents to ensure that yours qualifies as a new idea. My understanding is that it is typically in the hundreds or thousands of dollars. 

So unless you really have plans to develop your idea into a product, I'd just enjoy it for yourself.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks for the advice... I will see how it goes... I am kind of enjoying the invention process anyway... I build a prototype ... then keep improving it with different ideas... this is so much fun...


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

What does your invention do?


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Go for it, K.

Does it hang drywall really fast? :laughing:


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

There are many great ideas patented. - The problem is that the inventor does not have the ability or real desire to market the idea and get his rewards. This takes advance planning and the willingness to share the benefits with someone that provides what is needed.

It is cheap to get a patent(less than $10,000 using a good attorney). It is expensive and difficult to market. It is even more expensive if it is sucessful and you have to defend your rights in court. - That is why planning and financial back-up is necessary are important.

Even Thomas Edison did not really make all the discoveries. He just got the patents and knew how to make them profitable. It helps when your friends are Ford and Firestone.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks for your advice, Concretemasonry, your advice makes me feel like if I ever proceed this thing, I should use company like inventionhome (www.inventionhome.com) as they kind of take care of a lot of things for you. I just wish I can hear someone's feedback who use this company before. Anyway, I am still working on it... but the good thing is even I will not proceed with the thing... I can use it myself for many of my projects down the road...

Also, Thanks Yummy for your encouragement.


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Inventionhome looks to me like it is more about marketing your invention to producers/manufacturers. For the patent stuff they just say they'll direct you two a patent attorney. I'd think it would be cheaper to just go to a patent attorney directly, without the middle-man.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Avoid the "invention companies". they are just leeches, have nothing invested and usually have not real contacts to help with the two big problems. - Marketing and money


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

but they said in their web site they do the marketing for you and cost you nothing... all they asked back is 25% of your royalty.... but you may be right... I will do more analysis....


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

KUIPORNG -

See an attorney first so you understand what you are getting into and how to proceed. He can also advise you about invention "marketing" companies that just want a percentage with no risk, investment or real involvement. Do not use an attorney recommended by the marketing company.

Having something developed and then using it can be suicide. Buy using it in the open where it can be seen being used, it may become "public knowledge" and anyone can use it an even try to patent it. You could have your idea stolen and someone with more legal knowledge or financial backing (or guts) could patent it. Even if you fight it, the party with the best factual documentation will win.

I was recently an expert witness on a patent suit. One of the parties had spent over $700,000 on his legal fees well before they got to court. If you have a very good idea and product, you can expect this sort of problem, so start out right.

Your attorney will tell you how to protect your idea and document the development. - He will require to have people sign non-disclosure agreements if they see or use the product.

It is always possible to obtain a patent without an attorney, but it most likely will be written so it is really not defendable against someon the files a new, improved patent similar at a later date, since they will have had the legal research to shoot down your patent. - Its a jungle!!!


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## RemodelMan (Oct 7, 2007)

I agree with Concrete. Shop around by asking local inventors who they recommend as an attorney. You'll gain lots of advise about the scruples and pitfalls before you hook-up with a manufacturer(s), suppliers, sales agents or marketers, venture capitalists or collaborating with a private investor vs silent partner. Then decide if you would be better off selling the idea/product or working out an equitable royalty formula. 

One other pitfall to weigh into the equation, is deciding if the product/idea warrants a patent. You ought to consider selling the idea to a manufacturer or a company that produces something comparable to it. Consult an attorney who will draw up a water-tight nondisclosure agreement prior to revealing the actual unit. It may be wise to simply sell the concept rather than becoming a slave to the "potential" and going bankrupt in the process.
Meanwhile, you can peruse the libraries all day long and research similar ideas to avoid infringement, while discovering ways to improve upon your own concept. Best of luck.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks for the advice... but this invent thing is too big a thing for me to handle... I am going to use company like inventionhome as I have no way have the money and effort to be alone on this... if by any chance my idea got stolen, alread patented or whatever... bad luck for me .. but at least I tried my best.... sometimes just have to trust someone.......anyway... I don't want this thing take away all my other interests like buidling furniture.... as a matter of fact... I just used the router to finish the book shelf and will post picture of it once I finish staining it.... I am quite happy with it...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> I am going to use company like inventionhome as I have no way have the money and effort to be alone on this


Using a service like inventionhome certainly won't save you any money though. They might make things easier, if they are a reputable company (I have no idea), but they certainly won't make it cheaper, because you'll be paying them for their services. 

What does your invention do? (Not asking you to say how it works, just wondering what the purpose of the invention is.)


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks Nate, I understand I need to pay for all tangible service like patient searching..etc.etc... but it is kind of a graduate investiment and it won't even go too far if it fail the first or second blocks and will go further only if succeed some milestones make it worthwhile etc... but it save me all headaches and most important I can continue to build furniture which where I started anyway.... the Invention I did is kind of needed by every people who do renovation... and I used it very nicely to build my book shelf.... sorry... that is as much as I can expose... afterall this is internet we are talking about here....... 

Thanks for all your advice including those furniture making ones.....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Is it a pencil that is attached to your ear by a retractable leash??? That's what I've been waiting for. Can't keep track of those darn things!


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I find this useful site http://www.loneinventor.com ... this may change my course of actions... as this site is very similar to DIYForums exception it is for invention....


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*New action plan*

People, when I say it, I will do it, that is what happen to all my postings here so far. For this here is my action plan:

- bought two books about DIY patenting... they are great
- file provincial patent application 
- get feedback from different channels include you people to judge how commercialable of this invention
- I completely drop the idea of doing it by inventionhome already after my own investigation, the bottom line is: if your invention is good, you don't need them, if you invention is bad, they won't do you any good....

anyway... I am so excited... even my wife start agreeing with me by stop stopping me tallking about it...


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## TNRocks (May 2, 2007)

Take it from someone who has dealt with these companys. All they want is your money. I invented something a few years ago while doing a job. Come to find out it would cost me over $10,000 to get a patent. Take concretemasonary advice and see a lawyer. About some 40 years ago I knew a fellow that invented something and his lawyer advice him to tell no one till he applied for the patent. Do your research. How many will sell? At what cost? Profit? etc etc. then go for it. Good luck


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thank You.... I think I will file the provincial patent application myself which cost me only 100 bucks and I am protected. then I can start geting opinions from everyone in the world including you here whether this product has any commercial value, if the answer is yes, then I will go for real patent, if the answer is no, I will drop the whole idea and too bad I lost 100 bucks.... the books I bought is great and I have no problem filing the provincial patent application myself after reading it.... anyone can do it..... regarding search... anyone can do that himself/herself as well.... don't waste money to see any attorney... unless you are rich.... until a real patent is on its way... even then... may be you can do it yourself as well... I am not sure about that one... haven't read the other book yet...


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## TNRocks (May 2, 2007)

One last thing. Make sure you have all your notes, models, etc. dated. And if your interested you could get a poor mans patten. That is have 2 people (not related to u) sign a form stating that you have invented the item and shown it to them, etc, etc. Anything about the invention should be dated. 
Good LUck and looking forward to see what u have invented. 

www.handymansolution.net

Life is short so measure twice and cut it once.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks, except I do everything on computer rather than using pencil and paper... did take a few pictures of the prototype though... but up to now, I shared the information with no one so I should be safe... thanks again and yes I am going to post information of the invention very soon as I don't want to wait as well in case someone in the other part of the world come up with similar idea ... that all my effort is waste so far.... I expect to finish filing sometimes this month... so should let you people know at latest by the end of this month....


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Don't be surprised when your application gets kicked back to you. Normally, most self filed applications do because of the holes in the search. Examiners know how to search fully and most applicant searches are too narrow and only look at the specific application and not for points that refer to another field.

Also, do not limit your application to any specific dimensions and leave the scale/size opportunities open if you can. Someone can patent the same concept with different dimensions.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thank again, I tried do searching every here and then... and so far the search result still positive... but you are right... who knows... but that can happen to professional as well and I believe you can probably do a better job than the professional in one sense that you got all the time at your hand where they charge you $200/hour which means they only got 2 hours searching time for you to spare..... anyway... thanks for the tips of the dimension.... for "provincial patent application" it just put you in the line and the goveronment aren't going to spend time to review the application until the actual application submitted.... so kicked back you said in your message would actually happen in the actual patent submission time, that is why I even consider DIY for the actual submission if I ever going to do that to make myself less disappointed if case like that happens.... but then this is after everyone say the idea is good and I will go from there and may change stragegy it is kind of too early to think about that now...


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Take a look at the U.S. Patent Office site. They have a good search feature.

I assume you are from Canada, but very many Canadian pattents the also U.S. patents and show up. The only thing you will not find is the public knowledge that was used somewhere and never patented. This is one of the things that can make an issued patent void if someone wants to contest it.

Professionals can do a search much better and faster. DIYers can miss many applications for other fields or trades.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I am aware of the US site of course at this stage of the game, but a even better site is http://ep.espacenet.com/quickSearch?locale=en_EP which gives you worldwide pattern....etc... I think it really depends on the situation/product/idea whether hiring professional is a good idea...in my case, I certainly don't want to spend the $400 search fee.... anyway.... once I submitted the application and let you know the invention, you can then comment on whether this is in fact a valid thing or welcome to do some searches for me... as I consider we are brother and sisters in this site.... and help each other for everything if we can....


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*I did it*

Yahoo!!! I just finished filing the "Provincial Patent Application" 2 minutes ago.... People now I can tell you my invention, below are cut and paste from my application specifications:

*Portable, Expandable, Foldable and Height-Adjustable Modular Workbench (Patent Pending)*




*Advantages of portable, expandable, foldable and height-adjustable modular workbench invention:*

Although others have invented portable workbench, my invention is superior because it:

is simple and easy to make
is low cost to make
is simple to setup
is simple to putdown and folded for storage
is more versatile
is continuous height adjustable to flush with other platforms like table saw
can be mount to platform like table saw to act as an extension support
can expand to different sizes 
can be setup as different shapes
can be transported easily 
can be set up on a unleveled ground to form a leveled platform
is created by only one type of modular units simple and easy to expand
allow customers to purchase a few units initially and more units upon needed
The present inventions may have one or more of above advantages.


Now do you think this is a good invention... give me all your questions or advice.... consider I don't want to expose my design that quickly as there are third world countries people also watching this site... but I will try to answers all questions and_ I also want all of your opinions...._


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*You can see the picture of my invention*

I am currently selling my plan at ebay

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160180093689&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=006

I am not really trying to make money by selling the plan, but try to find out if there are people really interested in this stuff.

If there are no interests, I may lost my $100 bucks patent money and close the chapter.


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

If you're interested in feedback, I'll say that knowing only what you've told people, I don't see any reason to buy it. For all I can tell it is a small table-top with one leg that attaches to other tabletops with one leg. 

You say it is better/faster/easier/more flexible, but without more pictures or movies showing HOW it's all those things, it really doesn't look like more than a wooden table with too few legs. 

I'm not judging your invention's usefulness, but just telling you what it looks like right now to a consumer. I think if you want people to see how useful it is, you need to show them, not just tell them in general terms that you find it very useful. 

Hope that helps, 
Nate


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thank you for your comment... but if I show everything or explain everything... what is the point to purchase the plan then...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

That's sort of your conundrum, isn't it.  

I can understand not showing how you've constructed it, but you need to show how it works. People are not going to take your word about how useful it is, and send you $10 without having any idea of what the thing actually does. 

Show how it folds up, how it adjusts, how it stays stable. How light and easy it is to carry around. 

Basically, I think you need to show why this is better than a piece of plywood and two folding sawhorses.


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## TNRocks (May 2, 2007)

I with you Hanson. Need to see what it is like. If you look in catalogs, exam: Rockler, they show you a picture of the item but people still pay to buy the plans. Its that simple. All the problems have been worked out for you. I wouldn't pay any thing for an ideal without seeing what it is like.:whistling2:


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## scorrpio (Aug 14, 2006)

Rockler is an established business with long-term reputation. If they are selling a plan, people have a very good reason to believe in its quality. Someone who haven't got Rockler's reputation yet will need to give up more info.

Now that structure might be a marvel of engineering underneath, but supplied picture shows a rather weird and unstable structure. If this is really something special, it needs a better representation.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

People I get you... you are right, the picture is in fact is when the thing in the middle of construction... I am going back home to try to look for a picture when it is done.... which have extra parts... and modify the listings for sure....Thanks.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I couldn't find another picture (didn't take enough)... need to set it up again on Saturday... and take pictures again.... the Ebay item probably won't sell... well...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*Here comes the load*

Hi everyone, 

I made 4 steel framed units last 2 nights. and do the load testing again.

the Ebay listing is revised with the picture

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160180093689&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=006


It is 7 sq. feet of surface holding up over 150 lbs of objects.... and it is not to it's limit yet. I couldn't find anything else heavy in the garage to put it on. 

The 150 lbs of objects are : 50 lb concrete cement, 2 x 25 lb tile muds, 1 miter saw, 1 drill, 1 router, 1 circular saw, 12 bottle of water,...etc.

is this load satisfy you?

You also see some brace type object in the picture which is part of the design.


Let me know if you have more comment or questions... 

Thank You


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*After 24 hours it is still holding strong*

The load is still seating in the garage on the workbench and standing strong. I put over 100 lbs last night on one particalr panel and it doesn't move a bit and hold up. 

so I think this experiment should prove load is not an issue... I reluctant keep adding load to it though as everything will have a limit... don't want to break my prototypes... as I still need to use them for other improvements...

I met my neighbour last night and he suggested me a brillant way to solve the problem of linking each panel side by side without using Nuts and Bolts... got to experiment that in my next step....

anyway... please let me know if you have other questions or comments... 

I kind of documenting this adventure like the way I document the basement renovation...

and a marketing secret... you can sell an item in Ebay and use it as a web hosting site for your product, costs me only 80 cents for 10 days... rather than spending twenty dollars every month....


OK here comes a market research question you can help me if you want to:

if this thing has no load problem as it demonstrate. and it can be setup without nut and bolt... and it can perform its function as it declare...

Will you buy it...
how much will you pay for it maximum...

honest answers please...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*More load testing pictures*

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/kuiporng/


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## RemodelMan (Oct 7, 2007)

*Load bearing*

There is a difference between a "live" load and dead weight.
Check with the manufactureres of similar saw horses to understand how they went about defining the load that they advertise there product with.
You could call a lumber yard to find out the equation that determines a legitimate load formula for your horses. Technically, you would be best off having a structural engineer acertain the specific formula based upon the hardware and typical lumber utilized.
Then, at some point in time, you will need to test the load in adverse conditions and note the worst case scenario as the actual load capacity.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thank you very much for such information. I will look into this. You know. Reason why I am so persistant about this is really because I figure out this is kind of my interests... finding solution to problem like this... well.. the best is if this thing fly... but even it didn't ... I will have no regret... because I am really enjoy what I am doing... Thanks again...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*It is a bit unfair to compare a horse with a workbench*

After thinking it a bit....

You may stand on a horse. but you may not be able to stand on a 4x8 wood board supported by two horses..... the thing I am designing is really a workbench not a horse....


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## space_coyote (Nov 12, 2006)

The B&D Workmate will hold 550lbs according to the B&D folks. I'd say you'd need to get into this weight range with similar features.


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