# Car not starting



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Probably not, Check the connections to ground and the starter as well, but usually it's the terminal connections.

What brand car?



ED


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Relay ?????

Crummy terminalls or cables should pretty much appear evident as such


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

Scion XD 2008
Photo attached 









I cleaned off the inside with a brush before putting the new battery on. The positive side accumulates corrosion pretty quickly

You can see the exposed cable the terminal is attached to is a little green. The terminals could be tighter, but they seem to slide up as I tighten them. 

If it needs more than cleaning or tightening I have to take it to a mechanic...


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Maybe one of your cables is internally failing and craped up.... and when you undo the cable to clean the terminals, moving the cable temporaily improves the conductivity.

When it doesn't work... do you hear the relay clicking at least. That would tend to make me think you may have a conductivity problem with the cable and not able to push enough amps for the starter.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Take a picture farther away, So we can see the cable better.

If the cable is a little green, I suspect that corrosion has gotten inside the cable sheath, thus causing it to be less conductive of the "juice" than it was designed for.

and as a side note if this corrosion is coming back fast, that is an indicator that the charging system is over charging the battery.

Have the charging system checked for that.

ED


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

when it doesnt start, its completely dead no lights/alarm/clock this time around I didnt even remove the terminals just rotated 30° then back. 

I just cleaned them with baking soda waiting for it to dry


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

When it doesn't start and is completely dead (no lights / clock). do you have a multimeter or even a 12V light tester and can you test accross the battery terminals.

I've never seen a battery go good to bad intermitanly, but would like to be sure.

I still think it is a cable or bad connection maybe at the relay or at the ground.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> If it needs more than cleaning and tightening, I have to take it to a mechanic.


Take it to a mechanic. Have the cable replaced, post cleaned, connection properly tightened. 

The negative cable should be checked for condition and fixed/replaced as necessary.


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

Multimeter on the terminals... 0.0, on the positive terminal and the negative node on the battery itself 12.72. Should I be getting a reading touching the neg multimeter pin to the neg terminal?

Cleaned it,got a lot of green foam on the positive end. Now, I was able to tighten it all the way without it sliding up.









If I use a jumper kit when its dead, it starts up and dies as soon as I take my foot off the gas.


EDIT: just used soem sand paper on the neg terminal, reads 12.72 consistently now,seems like the negative terminal is rusted, not the white-green corrosion that is on the positive side


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

A common wire brush will remove the white / green powder corrosion looking residue off but the cables / posts need to have the shining silver bare metal look and there is a special brush for that. When I can't find my brush I've always used my pocket knife to get below the hard oxidized lead crust and down to bare new looking metal. 

You may be in need of new cables. Even if you knew how to check for voltage that doesn't mean much through a multimeter. The approx estimated 80 amps needed on a good day and about 120 or more estimated on a cold ass day is what we are attempting to pass through those cables and connections.


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> A common wire brush will remove the white / green powder corrosion looking residue off but the cables / posts need to have the shining silver bare metal look and there is a special brush for that. When I can't find my brush I've always used my pocket knife to get below the hard oxidized lead crust and down to bare new looking metal.
> 
> You may be in need of new cables. Even if you knew how to check for voltage that doesn't mean much through a multimeter. The approx estimated 80 amps needed on a good day and about 120 or more estimated on a cold ass day is what we are attempting to pass through those cables and connections.


Ive the brush (and a dremel version of the brush), my issue doesnt seem to be temperature realted today its 45°, we've had sub zero days for two weeks, no issues. But I think youre right, better play it safe and get all of it replaced.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

You're electrical testing was a little confusing.... probley ought to refer/distinguish exactly as "battery terminal" and "cable clamp " to distinguish between the two .......and red test lead to positive side and black test lead to negative.

But maybe ya got it..... You sort of implied that maybe one of your clamps was not on tight.... you should not be able to move or wiggle a battery cable clamp when it is attached to the battery terminal.

Maybe better cleaning and tightening (sanding) solved it. Hope so....:smile:

But maybe you still ned one (or two) new cables.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Doug Locke said:


> Ive the brush (and a dremel version of the brush), my issue doesnt seem to be temperature realted today its 45°, we've had sub zero days for two weeks, no issues. But I think youre right, better play it safe and get all of it replaced.


You can be a DIY'er and replace those cables yourself. A competent automotive supply store can help you with what you need. 

Just a safety reminder that many don't know when replacing these cables.

Disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery first then the 3 remaining ends. After the 3 other ends of the new cables are connected, then connect the negative cable back to the battery last. This prevents sparks and sometimes possible accidental battery explosions.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Check your battery really good for cracks or stress marks.
Even around the terminals.


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

ron45 said:


> Check your battery really good for cracks or stress marks.
> Even around the terminals.


the battery is new, I thought it was a battery problem so i replaced it couple of weeks ago. This is the first time it went dead again with the new battery.

with everything clean,and now polished with a dremel, cable clamps or battery terminals now both read above 12.7 amps with the multimeter. 

If it happens again, ill bring it to a mechanic.

thank you everyone for the many quick responses


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

Doug Locke said:


> If it happens again, ill bring it to a mechanic.


3 hours later, car turned on, immediately off, I tried turning the key again turned on and stayed on ...which is a brand new symptom:vs_mad:


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## CrazyGuy (Nov 18, 2017)

When it doesn't start, get under the hood and wiggle the battery wires around and see if it will then start. Keep in mind the cleaning the connectors does not address corrosion between the wire and the connector (where the wire goes in). It sounds to me that you have a ground wire issue. Follow your ground wires from the battery, remove them where they bolt onto the engine and car body, cut the wires off where they meet the connectors, strip back the wire (nice clean good wire) then put new connectors on and reattach the grounds in their appropriate locations. Cut the terminal connectors off, strip wires back and install new battery terminal connectors or reuse the old ones if possible. While doing this be careful not to cut off too much wire as you may not have much slack in the wires. May be easiest to remove the ground wire assembly so you can crimp the new connectors in a vise. I would think that this should solve your problem. If it is not a ground issue then it may be a fuse box issue, but I would bet on bad ground issue. Remember it doesn't matter how clean the connector to the ground location is if the wire is corroded inside of the connector.


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

Doug Locke said:


> If it happens again, ill bring it to a mechanic.


3 hours later, car turned on, immediately off, I tried turning the key again turned on and stayed on ...which is a brand new symptom:vs_mad:


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Are you using a high impedance dvom? It may be giving you false readings. Try using a low impedance voltmeter, analog meter or 12 volt test light.

Does the positive cable have a fusible link? Did you check both ends of both cables? What are you working on?


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Ah, I had a similar problem on a 1979 Chevy van.

Come to find out the wire that attaches to the starter was loose.

It would run, then shut off, etc......


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Doug Locke said:


> 3 hours later, car turned on, immediately off, I tried turning the key again turned on and stayed on ...which is a brand new symptom:vs_mad:


That was only another of the many, many permutations possible with cables in the condition pictured. They will test your mind in every way possible.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Replace both cables on the battery.

Scabbing terminal ends just kicks the problem to a later day.

New cables won't corrode up into the sheathing, like the ones that you have now have done.

And make sure that their attachment ends to the starter solenoid, or the chassis are tight and clean.


ED


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Vehicles with electrical gremlins ? A FWIW follows,

Back in 1974 my 1970 El Camino headlights as I drove around at night, would brighten some, then go back to normal light output. Repeat as the driving continued randomly. So I asked some of my buddies that were DIY mechanics, what would be causing this is issue. 

With their advice and in increments, I bought a new fan belt, new battery, new battery cables, new alternator. Around $150.00 invested and my headlights still would brighten/dim...

So I gave up firing the parts cannon. I take my El to an Auto Electrical Shop. Drive in it to the shop and the tech hooks up his Sun tester diagnostics cables to my vehicle. He looks at the O- scope running on the Sun tester.


He then grabs a piece of #10 stranded wire from a spool and crimps some ring terminals on each end. He puts one ring under a bolt on the AC compressor bracket and the other wire terminal ring, to a bolt on the fender wall. Charged me $10.00 and the headlights never acted up again.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Greg: the second that you said Headlights would vary in brightness.

I thought "poor ground".

Then your tale went on to verify my diagnoses.

Of course many years experience has taught many of us more than we needed to know.

ED


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

Update for anyone with the same issue who stumbled onto this thread. For months My car would not start 1-3 times a week, seemed like it was abut to turn off while driving, once it actually did. Turned out all I had to do was clean the terminals . Its been over 9 months and the problem didn't return. 

Heres how i cleaned it: 

*Before starting disconnect the battery, Put a tray/garbage bag under the terminal so thuff doesnt get all over the engine. 

1) Mixed baking soda with water, slowly poured it onto the terminal battery, wiping off the foam that formed with damp paper towels (its messy wear gloves)
2) Used a wire brush, to get the stubborn chunks off. 
3) Used a some fine (over 200 grit) sand paper to get the corrosion step 1 and 2 didnt get off.
4) used a buffing pad to bring the terminal end to a shine.

I used my cheap rotary tool with the wire/sand paper/buffing attachments. Its not needed but made the steps 2-4, take 2-3 min each. I tried starting the between each step, I had to do all of them for it to work perfectly


Its been 9 months without the problem returning and cost me nothing to fix


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanks for the follow up and sure glad you got it running dependably. But as stated earlier, all that's needed to clean both the corrosion and hard lead oxide from battery posts and cable end clamps is this battery terminal cleaning brush. It will make them shine silver color. Cost about 4 bucks and approximately 10 minutes of your time. The baking soda and things like that will clean the green from things but that's about all.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

As a reference for those that don't know, there is a tool sold at the auto parts, that is made specifically for cleaning battery cables, no rotary tools needed.

It has a little wire brush, for cleaning the insides of the battery cable, another brush for cleaning the post of the battery, and is " fits in your palm sized", 

And handy to carry in your emergency tool kit. 

Baking soda and water, Yes great, I use a pint jar of water, and 2 tablespoons of soda, mixed, then soak the ends a few minutes before brushing off any leftovers. 


ED 

SS, Thanks for the picture, you and I were typin at the same time, I won't jump through the hoops to post pictures, because I know that there are better ways to do it than this site has.


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

On my Fords, I have had success mixing baking soda and warm water, then soaking the battery end of the cable in a can. When the fizzing stops, I soak the ends in clean water, and put the terminals back on the battery. 

A question for the original poster, You did not have those lousy bolt on terminals did you? They are often the problem.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Fireguy: They are always a problem, sooner or later. 

Those clamp on terminal ends are garbage, I always throw them away, when I get them, and buy new entire cables.

This saves the hassle later when I have problems similar to the ones OP has.



ED


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## Doug Locke (Aug 31, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Thanks for the follow up and sure glad you got it running dependably. But as stated earlier, all that's needed to clean both the corrosion and hard lead oxide from battery posts and cable end clamps is this battery terminal cleaning brush. It will make them shine silver color. Cost about 4 bucks and approximately 10 minutes of your time. The baking soda and things like that will clean the green from things but that's about all.


I used thea wire brush then the soft buffing cylinder that came with the dremmel kit, it brought the terminals and the battery posts to a literal shine.

One other thing I did that I didnt mention, since i think I might get @#$ for doing this. I wrapped the plastic flap/cover that covers the batter terminal, was uses some RTV silicone and made a ghetto mold when it cures I drilled a hole in the edge and zip tied it on the cover, so that it now drapes over the entire terminal connection. I think the stock one just lets too much water vapor in.


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## joekotch11 (Oct 25, 2018)

I would suspect a faulty wire, faulty connection or faulty ground.


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