# why NOT Behr paint ?



## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

Because we said so!

Behr is a low grade paint that is offered as a cheap product. Why?.. that is what Home Depot's market is... Paint is a combination of its components. Better components cost much more. Paint consists of three main components" A pigment, a binder the glues the pigment to a surface as the paint dries and a solvent that makes the moisture loose enough to brush on. Cheaper paints use synthetic colorants and good paints use organic materials which hide better and cost much more. Behr use PVA resins ( polyvinyl acetate) whereas a quality paint uses the twice the cost PMMA resins (polymethyl methacrylate) Resins are the binder in the paint so Behr simply will not stick to the wall as well.

I could go on an on, but you should start to see where I am going with this. Now for the bathroom paint. I would use something like Zinsser's PermaWhite. You see, the way this paint works is that it has a powdered mildewcide dissolved in it. That mildewcide has a very high solubility in water, and it's that affinity for water that actually makes it MOVE toward the surface of the paint when there's water on the surface of the paint, or even when there's very high humidity in the air. As it gets to the surface of the paint, it kills any mildew spores on the paint surface before they have a chance to grow, thereby keeping the paint mildew free. Again a cheap paint contains very litlle of this compound, thus will offer protection a much shorter time.

Behr will yield a okay result 50% of the time at best. Any adverse conditon will cause it to fail. It will not be as easy to apply, will not last as long and is this is why no professionals will use it.


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## jpsmith (Jan 29, 2009)

Bob's points are certainly valid, but as a casual paint DIYer, for the most part I can't complain about the Behr I've used. Each room of my house is a different color of Behr - two coats over top of a coat of primer. The only room I had trouble with was my kitchen where I used red paint (Autumn Maple). The end result is nice, but it took six coats to get good coverage. Red is typically difficult to work with, requiring more coats.

I'm not saying ignore Bob's (and others') adivise, I'm just mentioning that Behr works fine for me as your typical Joe Homeowner.


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## sathni (Mar 12, 2009)

thanks guys....

it appears i can get Zansser's paint at Lowe's....

are there different grades of Zansser's paint... meaning, will the Zansser paint i buy at Lowes be as good as the "quality" zansser paint sold in specialty stores?....

and any special primer you would recommend?


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

jpsmith said:


> Bob's points are certainly valid, but as a casual paint DIYer, for the most part I can't complain about the Behr I've used. Each room of my house is a different color of Behr - two coats over top of a coat of primer. The only room I had trouble with was my kitchen where I used red paint (Autumn Maple). The end result is nice, but it took six coats to get good coverage. Red is typically difficult to work with, requiring more coats.
> 
> I'm not saying ignore Bob's (and others') adivise, I'm just mentioning that Behr works fine for me as your typical Joe Homeowner.



Goes to my point. I have painted maybe 25 rooms with C2 and some with BM and NEVER used more than two coats. C2 covers with one, but I always do two coats.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

sathni said:


> thanks guys....
> 
> it appears i can get Zansser's paint at Lowe's....
> 
> ...



Zinsser's Perma White is its own primer. And use two top coats. The mildicide in the first coat will move to the top coat after the top coat's mildicide is exhausted.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

All kidding aside I would se the $12 Glidden paint before I would use Behr. In the 15 years that I have been a painter I have used many different paints and I have never seen poorly perform like Behr. I have used it twice and that was enough. The interior I used was sagging almost to the point of running all along the bottoms of my wall. Coverage was poor as well. I used a tinted primer, almost the exact wall color, and after 2 coats over the primer I could see streaks. The exterior paint I used didn't cover either. I was using a White oil based primer and did basicly a full coat and the Behr just didn't cover well. If you are looking to save a buck, get Pittsburg or the lower lines of BM or SW. You will be much happier in the long run.


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## jpsmith (Jan 29, 2009)

Matthewt1970 said:


> If you are looking to save a buck, get Pittsburg or the lower lines of BM or SW. You will be much happier in the long run.


...if you can find Pittsburgh Paint. I live in that city and can't even find it anywhere! There are SW stores, though.


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## sathni (Mar 12, 2009)

bob... regarding the Zinsser's Perma White .... you say this is a primer....

so what "paint" do i use?.... or do i just use 2 coats of this primer on the shower ceiling ?....

sorry for seeming a bit confused....

thanks for your advice and help.....


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## mazzonetv (Feb 25, 2009)

I love it! The only post defending Behr than goes on to say that it took six coats for a red to cover!! 6 Coats!! Imagine a Pro taking the time to apply 6 coats when BM or SW or C2 will do it in one or two. 

To answer the OP - go to a real paint store and buy either the Perma White or SW's bathroom paint or BM's Kitchen and Bath paint. Remember, the paint is the cheapest part of the project!! 

good luck!


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## jpsmith (Jan 29, 2009)

I was defending all colors except red. Painting that room red was a nightmare. My other rooms are shades of brown or green and they took two coats, and in one room it was one coat plus spot patching because the first coat covered pretty well and we didn't want to buy more for the few spots that needed it. Also, I wasn't exactly defending Behr to death, merely stating that it was OK for me. Not fantastic, but OK. At the time I was painting all my walls, money was hard to come by so the difference between buying 11 gallons (for all the rooms) at $22 versus $45 was significant.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

I hope you understood what I tried to explain to you. Hiding ability is only one issue. Durability and washability with Behr is also going to be less. Workability is more, but you seem to not deem your time worth anything. But since you will have to re-paint sooner your perceived cost savings will not be there, in fact you costs will be much higher.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

Bob Mariani said:


> Zinsser's Perma White is its own primer. And use two top coats. The mildicide in the first coat will move to the top coat after the top coat's mildicide is exhausted.


this means use it for all three coats and it is self-priming


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## sirwired (Jun 22, 2007)

jpsmith said:


> I was defending all colors except red. Painting that room red was a nightmare. My other rooms are shades of brown or green and they took two coats, and in one room it was one coat plus spot patching because the first coat covered pretty well and we didn't want to buy more for the few spots that needed it. Also, I wasn't exactly defending Behr to death, merely stating that it was OK for me. Not fantastic, but OK. At the time I was painting all my walls, money was hard to come by so the difference between buying 11 gallons (for all the rooms) at $22 versus $45 was significant.


You can get some mighty-fine paints from an actual paint store for a lot less than $45. On sale, you can get SW SuperPaint for $30-ish, and I assume similar deals can be had with BM Regal, another fine paint. If you are really strapped for cash, you can get a top-end contractor paint (such as SW ProMar 200) for little more than you paid for the Behr, and end up with a much more consistent result.

Once you paint with "real" paint, you will notice the difference.

SirWired


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

Behr makes paint? Coulda fooled me...:huh:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls":laughing:


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

chrisn said:


> "better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls":laughing:


LOL!
I did the 6 coats of behr thing, I thought it was good paint right up until I started using it. I used to use a regional paint producer that sold out, thats when I tried Bear.
Lately I have been using BM Regal. I am quite happy with it.
I like some of the Truevalue paints also. Zinsser primar rocks.
I might try aura on my house this summer.
jamie


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## earthad1 (Apr 1, 2008)

Is Para paint any good? http://www.para.com/ meaning does it measure up to BM or SW?


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## canuck88 (Aug 6, 2007)

Another thumbs down for Behr. I just used it to paint our nursery, and compared to my experiences with BM, CIL, and General Paint, it was pure garbage in every way.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

I tried the textured paint from Behr, that you put on with a special roller, 
and it is the worst thing to use. 

The product was VERY thick and no matter what you did you could never get it to stick on the wall. 

After using many colourful words  during my project, I swore I would never use Behr again in any shape or form. 

I purchased CIL primer for my drywall which was good. And I just yesterday purchased BM for my walls.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Best paint I ever used (and I'm no painter by any means) was from Majestic Paints. There was one store nearby (closed 5 or 6 years ago) and haven't seen another. Their acrylic latex was great. One coat coverage, though I used two. Usually covered the crayon marks in the kids' rooms on the first coat (depending on color) with no KILZ. Very durable and "washable". Wish they were still around......


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## drzjoint (Mar 11, 2009)

I painted the inside of our old 4000sq ft. place back in 2002 with a high quality behr paint it did not cover well and was not happy I quit trying different tpes and just stick with SW


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I swore I would never use Behr again in any shape or form. :thumbsup:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I've used Behr in the past, I'm switching to a different paint
It doesn't go on right, always seems as if it is sagging
I just thought I was a lousy painter or used improper rollers/brushes or went too fast, too much paint etc etc

We used in our bedroom - red - 1 coat of primer & 3 top coats
Bad news is I have LOTS of leftover paint & quite a bit is Behr
Most are lighter colors & I'll use it to white wash areas that aren't critical


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Wondering if all that answers the OP's question as to why she should use Behr paints.

I drive a Yugo; it is a good car, it has four rubber wheels, a steering wheel, four cloth seats, a motor and sometimes brakes. No radio and low heat. The cabin keeps us dry and the windows are glass. It comes in many colours but sometimes when the garage needs a part, it takes four weeks to come in from overseas. Didn't cost much either. Oh, and it runs too. 

So why isn't this a good car?

:laughing:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

4 weeks to get a part....might be a clue :laughing:


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## sathni (Mar 12, 2009)

thanks for all the replies to my original question....

i purchased Zinsser PermaWhite... applied the first coat saturday night.... it was pretty uneventful... no problems... i will apply coat # 2 tonight or tomorrow....

instead of SW, i went with Zinsser since it is both a primer and a paint... no other primer was necessary .... made it easy on the pocketbook, while using a high quality paint....


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## duckdown (Dec 30, 2008)

Behr is top quality paint that is consistently rated very high by independent testing organizations such as consumer reports. The real reason why folks don't like Behr is because of the horrific service they get when visiting a Home Depot.

The retailer is not a reflection on the quality of the product. Buy Behr and stop listening to the noise.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

duckdown said:


> Behr is top quality paint that is consistently rated very high by independent testing organizations such as consumer reports. The real reason why folks don't like Behr is because of the horrific service they get when visiting a Home Depot.
> 
> The retailer is not a reflection on the quality of the product. Buy Behr and stop listening to the noise.


 The post was why Behr is not considered a quality paint by pros. Your reply does not address this and is also incorrect. If you know nothing about determining a quality of paint products then do not offer an uneducated reply. This does not help. Consumer Reports is a "consumer" reporting magazine that rates items on cost more than quality. Behr is fine if you do not understand quality (as in your case) and want something as cheap as possible.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

duckdown said:


> Behr is top quality paint that is consistently rated very high by independent testing organizations such as consumer reports. The real reason why folks don't like Behr is because of the horrific service they get when visiting a Home Depot.
> 
> The retailer is not a reflection on the quality of the product. Buy Behr and stop listening to the noise.


You mean the noise of people complaining that the stuff saggs, peels, horrible texture, doesn't cover for crap, really should be priced at $12 a gallon, and don't get me started with thier deck "Stains"

Painting contractors are all about getting the job done right for a reasonable rate. If I could walk out the door of a paint retailer with $22 a gallon paint that would perform as well as $55 top of the line paint, I would be all over it and so would just about every painting contractor on the planet.


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## Dana11 (Mar 5, 2009)

They maybe producing low quality paints but i love the color shades they offer. 

*Dana*


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

Dana11 said:


> They maybe producing low quality paints but i love the color shades they offer.
> 
> *Dana*


 They do not make any shade that you cannot also get in a quality paint.


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## pjm (Apr 11, 2008)

I have used Behr paints in all the rooms of my house, but 95% of it was flat or semi-gloss and light colors or whites and they seemed to work fine for me and also have held up as well. When I did my kitchen though the wife wanted a nice dark red on three of the walls adn we got Behr for it and it was hard to get it to cover as stated in previous posts it took two coats of dark color primer along with 4 coats of the red to get a decent job. I would use it again just not for anything with darker colors. That said I have never used a high quality paint and if I did I might see the points stated above.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

pjm said:


> I have used Behr paints in all the rooms of my house, but 95% of it was flat or semi-gloss and light colors or whites and they seemed to work fine for me and also have held up as well. When I did my kitchen though the wife wanted a nice dark red on three of the walls adn we got Behr for it and it was hard to get it to cover as stated in previous posts it took two coats of dark color primer along with 4 coats of the red to get a decent job. I would use it again just not for anything with darker colors. That said I have never used a high quality paint and if I did I might see the points stated above.



Good points... in some cases Behr seems to be working as you intend a paint to work. BUT... this is not always the case, which makes for the reason Behr is not used by professionals.. and again is what this post is about. Not why, even though I know nothing about paint quality features I found behr actually made my walls look painted. It is not a quality paint.


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

sathni said:


> i am seeing over and over agin that the experts on this forum do not like Behr paint from Home Depot...
> 
> i have to repaint my shower ceiling, so i was looking for a good "bath paint" ...
> 
> ...


Behr, 
Was rated number one in consumer reports, it's not contractor approved but... I have a friend who works for Behr Paints and I hear they have a improved primer/paint coming out in June sometime....If you have questions why not call BEHR Paints directly, and refer to the replies on this site... their points are valid...but each contractor has his/her own preferred paint...SW makes great paint also... good luck... why not ask speak to a Behr Rep by asking for a meeting if you have doubts...I have used it in the passed better than most...but i'm not a contractor who paints everyday....


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## sirwired (Jun 22, 2007)

The thing I can't figure out is why Masco or HD hasn't sent somebody to this board by now to answer questions and address the frequently seen shortcomings of the Behr paint. We've seen folks from Valspar and Purdy here, but never Masco (which also owns the horrid Kilz2) or HD.

Well, I guess one time some HD guy showed up and parroted some incorrect information he must have picked up from some bizarre training material, but he/she couldn't have been any higher than a counterperson. (This poster asserted that TiO2 was not a pigment...)

SirWired


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

HD deals in volume
The vast majority of their customers will never see this board
And I doubt this board will effect their sales to any degree
I've been using Behr for over 10 years - mostly lighter colors
I always chalked up the semi-poor results to my being a bad painter


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

What do they say... If you don't know it will not hurt you. I just returned from a seminar from Milesi which is the top Italian coatings manufacturer introducing their new water based polyurethanes. The science behind quality coatings is quite complex. One thing that makes this poly so much better is the resins (a binder) is ground much smaller. paints chemically coalase when they dry. This means the binders physically bond. With quality paints the smaller binders form a smoother surface which is more durable. Same reason why all furniture and cabinets is sprayed.... the finish is atomized giving a very flat hard durable finish. Cheap paints like Behr have large and cheap binders. This allows a weak bonded surface to fail much easier. This part is one factor in the quality scene that some of you advocating Behr as it looks okay fail to see. This weaker surface allows the paint to thin over time (especially a factor in exterior finishes) from cleaning, dust, sunlight and many other factors. I I already mentioned the effects of the other cheap ingredients that make up a cheap paint. these are self effident since it effects hiding and flow. 

As far as Home Depot caring about this as a quality issue, it is not their market. They are ther to market cheap goods. In fact they do not stock one single quality line in their stores. They attempted to with the Expo Centers, which are now gone.


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## mjarema414 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Behr*

I used the Behr semi-gloss to paint some doors. After what I thought looked good, I hung the doors and wow...the coverage was horrible in the sunlight. Even after touching them up, it still didn't cover well. The semi-gloss is like paste..Way too thick. I then went to SW and bought another can of the Cashmere semi-gloss. What a difference. It was nice to actually be able to paint and not have it go on like glue.


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## Lew_B (Oct 29, 2008)

I had been using Behr for my DIY projects with mixed results based on the Consumer Reports Ratings. I had someone (a painter by trade) do some remodeling for me and he got Behr to match up with what was already on the walls. He told me he'd never use that crap again and said I should use Ben Moore any time I did anything else on my own.
I'm now doing a project and will be using the local BM retailer for my paints. I was in there buying primer and asked him why Consumer Reports rated the Behr so highly. They said it was due to the scrubbability tests vs. the price. He then asked me if I had ever seen professional painters in line at HD buying Behr :whistling2:


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## sirwired (Jun 22, 2007)

Personally, I'm not sure what is up with the CR ratings. They do not publicize their test methodology. Mostly, I would wonder what surface they start with? Freshly-primed new drywall? An existing coat of paint? What kind? Is trimwork tested? What applicator is used? How to they look for sagging while brushing?

I expect they will cough up this information if a paint company, like Masco/Behr, asks, and then the company is turning around and customizing the paint for the test, even if those tests are not particularly realistic. (Maybe better tests would be more expensive...) Since most of BM's and SWP's sales are to contractors, they really don't care about what CR says about their paints.

SirWired


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## Mazz (Mar 23, 2009)

I've used home depot paint for the interior. Didn't really care. It came out fine.

I did use high quality paint for the exterior.


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## sirwired (Jun 22, 2007)

sirwired said:


> The thing I can't figure out is why Masco or HD hasn't sent somebody to this board by now to answer questions and address the frequently seen shortcomings of the Behr paint. We've seen folks from Valspar and Purdy here, but never Masco (which also owns the horrid Kilz2) or HD.
> 
> Well, I guess one time some HD guy showed up and parroted some incorrect information he must have picked up from some bizarre training material, but he/she couldn't have been any higher than a counterperson. (This poster asserted that TiO2 was not a pigment...)
> 
> SirWired


Wow, ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/behr-would-like-hear-about-your-experiences-our-paint-41034/

SirWired


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## newbpainter (Mar 25, 2009)

I just finished using Behr's Satin Navajo White paint in my living room, and I'm quite pleased with the results. I originally had whitish pink walls. The Behr only took one coat to cover. I just had a couple spots I needed to patch up because I'm a newb painter.

I understand that there are better quality paints out there but Behr worked fine for me and my simple task. 

Oh and the paint did run on a couple spots. But I can't be sure if that was because of the quality of paint or my newbness.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

newbpainter said:


> I just finished using Behr's Satin Navajo White paint in my living room, and I'm quite pleased with the results. I originally had whitish pink walls. The Behr only took one coat to cover. I just had a couple spots I needed to patch up because I'm a newb painter.
> 
> I understand that there are better quality paints out there but Behr worked fine for me and my simple task.
> 
> Oh and the paint did run on a couple spots. But I can't be sure if that was because of the quality of paint or my newbness.


 It was your poor choice of paint... this is what this is all about. Cheap paint has issues and is more of a problem with using it. It runs, sags, splatters and does not cover as well. without using a quality paint first, you have no comparison as to how a paint should perform. You can drive a pinto but will never get it to handle curves like a porshe.


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

"Behr was rated number one in consumer reports"? 
Hmmm, makes me think a lot differently about Consumer Reports....

I've used about five different Behr colors, and I will NEVER use that paint again- especially the yellows. Ground chalk in Karo syrup works better.
-No stick
-No coverage
-Coats, then runs 
-Five minutes later the whole wall starts sagging

Do a search about how well their garage floor paints hold up as well.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Heh, I saw some $5 a gallon paint at the dollar store the other day that I bet would work better than Behr.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Heh, I saw some $5 a gallon paint at the dollar store the other day that I bet would work better than Behr. :thumbsup:


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## user84992 (Jun 13, 2009)

I painted with Behr and was very happy! It only took one coat because, in my experience, Behr is good paint. I used Olympic from Lowe's do do another room and it took 2 coats.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I painted with Behr and was very happy! It only took one coat because, in my experience, Behr is good paint. I used Olympic from Lowe's do do another room and it took 2 coats. 


No comment


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## user84992 (Jun 13, 2009)

I painted with Behr and was very happy! It only took one coat because, in my experience, Behr is good paint. I used Olympic from Lowe's do do another room and it took 2 coats. 


No comment


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

Let's just put it this way....your used, as-is Yugo might get you where you need to go most of the time, but it ain't a new Cadillac with a warranty.


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

ratherbefishin' said:


> Let's just put it this way....your used, as-is Yugo might get you where you need to go most of the time, but it ain't a new Cadillac with a warranty.


why respond, anyone including "Behr is good paint" makes it clear they do not have a clue what is a good paint.


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## user84992 (Jun 13, 2009)

Seriously? Get a life! This website is for people to help each other with their home issues and provide advice based on experiences. You clearly need to find a hobby that involves actually doing stuff around the house instead of just sitting on the computer all day. Someone saying Behr is good paint is not a dig at you. Get over yourself. I see you've made almost 2000 posts and probably most of them are in response to someone making an opinion that might be different than your own. Oh no! Welcome to America!


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

You're right about what this site is trying to be and to some extent succeeds at; but at the same time this is not an opinion poll.

What makes a paint "good" depends a lot on what you define as good; good may mean 'cheap' to some, and mostly means "no problems encountered" to others and I put you, Jessieam, in that last category. Doesn't make you wrong, but if you turn around and say this site helps other based on inputors' experiences, you may not qualify - because you only have _one _experience, one trial to base your opinion on.

Look, I'm not knocking you...or anyone else. But you'll have to admit that there are serious painters here who have all put in their experiences with Behr paints - and it doesn't look as though it's their paint of choice. These guys paint everyday and in a flash can tell a good paint from a not-so-good paint _in their experience_...so I for one trust that.

But Behr wasn't meant to be a serious paint...it is meant for the one-timer, the one-roomer, the DIYer who first wouldn't know a good paint from a bad one, and who doesn't really care because at least the one time they use it, it looks OK. Besides even if they have to do it over again, it's their time and that time is cheap.

But guys who used it and have rejected it can probably give you their recommendations on a really good paint. Personally, I tried both because I do part-time paint jobs - and have tried Behr. I now use Benjamin Moore on everything because now I get paid to paint and those who pay me expect the best. The best job and the best paint. Behr doesn't give me that...

Now, I am a formulating chemist and have formulated paints in my earlier days so I have a rough idea of what makes a good paint for serious painters and conversely how you can cheapen a paint for the DIY market. One costs $25 to make, the other $8...both are "paints" but both have different markets.

On this site and in this discussion there is no formal way of defining what a "good" paint it; here and IMO, it's more the guys like Bob Mariani whose input is based on years of experience that are valued because of what this site is all about: guys with experience giving advice to those without...so their input is valued. See, this is not a "ratings site"... 

Scientifically, it is a matter of thickness of coat and level % of solids in the paint that to me best establish what a good paint is and what is a not, to a painter with no lab available. Has nothing to do with the best marketer (Home Depot) nor how cheaply you can make-a-paint-and-sell-it-for-$25-a-gallon (Behr)...experience from others is a major criteria too. 

Consumer Reports take two criteria into account: a 'good' paint is one that is affordable and easy to get hold of. Not factors to consider if you're a pro painter...

So the subjective debate will go on and on until sometone says "enough already: whatever turns your crank in paint, so be it.":laughing:


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## beachnik (May 29, 2009)

Bob Mariani said:


> Because we said so!
> 
> Behr is a low grade paint that is offered as a cheap product. ...
> 
> ...


Good input. I searched a little more and found this post which provides a little more detail about PVA vs PMMA:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/acrylic-latex-primer-vs-latex-primer-24646/

After reading the linked post, I went into the garage and started reading labels:

Behr Premium Plus - 100% Acrylic (not PVA)
Behr Premium Plus Ultra - 100% Acrylic (not PVA)
Dunn-Edwards W704V Acri-Flat - 100% Acrylic (not PVA)

I've had my complaints about Behr paint - in particular, it's ability to hide. I've used it on interiors - but very limited experience on exteriors.

I've just recently started posting here. I'm in the middle of working on a rental unit. I decided to take a break and walk around the neighborhood. One of the neighbors invited me in to see the remodeling and finish work they are doing - a home 100 feet from the beach in SoCal - not a cheap property. The wife is super super picky about finish and details. As I walked through, I checked out the interior painting - nice uniform work, no sags, no streaking, the finish on the trim was excellent. I complimented the painter and asked him what he was using - he uses Behr Premium Plus!

I started to tease the painter and the home owner about their choice of paint. The home owner said 'this guy has been doing work for me for a long time, there's things here that he painted with Behr 10 years ago and they still look great'.

The painter looked at me and said 'it's not about the paint, it's about the painter'.

Frankly, I was a bit shocked. It's one thing for me to use this stuff in my rentals, but I wasn't prepared to see it being used successfully in an expensive owner occupied property at the beach.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

PMMA resins bring quite a bit to premium paints, problem solvers that are not needed in an interior wall paint - evn in multi-million $ homes. For example, they are the best choice for exterior paints because they resist the outdoor extremes. High humidity likewise, but not really required inside.

But in an interior wall paint? There any resin would do...and last +10 years? not an issue even in expensive homes because one mood change and the walls are repainted! Colour choice may have had more to do with the choice and/or availability and/or price per gallon.

Your painter is right; depending on if he is paid by the hour or not, it makes no difference to him. His expertise is more valuable here because he may feel he is applying a substandard product that looks good thanks to his expertise. Fair trade. Doesn't mean a better paint wouldn't have taken less time or looked even better...


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

beachnik said:


> I started to tease the painter and the home owner about their choice of paint. The home owner said 'this guy has been doing work for me for a long time, there's things here that he painted with Behr 10 years ago and they still look great'.
> 
> The painter looked at me and said 'it's not about the paint, it's about the painter'.
> 
> Frankly, I was a bit shocked. It's one thing for me to use this stuff in my rentals, but I wasn't prepared to see it being used successfully in an expensive owner occupied property at the beach.


Less cost in materials = more $$ in his pocket too


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

There are too many other paints out there for the same price that will cover better and won't sag and require twice as long to babysit the drips and sags. 

I am glad some people have had good luck with Behr paint and I am glad your job turned out ok. There are just too many horor stories from people who have used it and you just don't hear those kinds of horor stories with the better brands. 

Behr paint = Wheel Of Furtune. Spin the wheel and hope you don't land on Bankrupt or Lose a Turn.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

You know, it's funny... "paint" is a "cosmetic"; it is about the only product I know of apaprt from cosmetics that most people buy knowing absolutely nothing about it - but are sold 'a dream'...I mean we taste foods, we research cars, we try on clothes, we feel clean after using a shampoo, we hear about tools, we like certain authors - but paint? Here's a highly technical product that most of us have around us, that we use from time to time but that is sold based on emotions only...

Look at all the websites; "spring colours", 'warm moods', "delicate whites" heck, every feminine adjective in the book and not one hint about it's performance capabilities, perhaps apart from water- or solvent-based and even that is shrouded in environmentally-correct lingo: "VOC compliant". Not hiding power, not coverage, not film thickness, resin type, solids % -nothing. It feels like I am being sold a anti-aging cosmetic cream with all the dreams of looking younger built in and up-front... 

So that's how they market it. Through big box stores who, after all, only market to the biggest buying section of society: women. They buy almost 80% of all goods out there - so if you want to sell, sell to them.

Unfortunately, a cheap product is still a cheap product no matter what the price. Increase the price and you'll sell more because people see a perceived value. But a cheap product underperforms its peers - and only a few get to know why. In this case, painters have tried it and most don't like it. Women do though, because they like the colour and perhaps they paint to be able to say they did it themselves.

Let them have their opinions on Behr paints or on anything else, it ain't worth the fight to switch. My wife can buy the paint she wants but I won't paint with it. If she wants a wall painted by me, I go with what I think is the best from a technical standpoint. :wink:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I've been painting for the past 2 days, sort of a test
Behr paint went on thick (4 doors), had to watch for sags, even painting thin coats

I also tried the same paint (w/brush) in a small triangle in the basement stairway
I then tried some Glidden in the basement stairway
It wasn't that big of an area so I was going to use a roller
But there is trim to go around, railing etc
So I used the same brush I used w/Behr paint - wasn't looking forward to it
The Glidden went on like a dream, smooth & no sags
It went very quickly & I was done in no time - 1 coat
I had blue magic marker on the wall, figured I'd need 2 coats - like Behr
The Glidden covered it & all the other marks in the stairway
I'll need to 2x check once it dries
The difference between these 2 paints is day & night

Glidden America' Finest - 12 year paint
Interior Latex Semi-gloss Enamel - off-white

Behr Premium Plus - Lifetime Guarantee
Interior Latex Enamel Semi-gloss Ultra Pure White #3050

so.........what are the differences?
Why does Glidden work so well?
I was thinking the Glidden was low-cost (less $$ then Behr as I remember) & would not be that great. That's why I used it in the basement stairway


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I think that goes to what the Behr threads are all about...why make a paint that, according to some, is "cheap" ie contains less materials and/or materials of lesser quality - and sell it for a premium price if it weren't for the fact that you're not buying just paint, you're buying the store and the marketing?

Glidden is an established brand of paint, with history. It doesn't have stores per se the way HD has stores, but their paints are probably better in quality but cost less than Behr. So there's another answer to "Why NOT Behr paints...?"

If everyone was as meticulous as you are in comparing paints, there'd be changes at Behr for sure...:whistling2:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

As a follow up the blue magic marker did come thru the paint as I thought it would. I can also barely see some of the dark black marks along the handrail area. But for the most part the Glidden covered everything with 1 coat of paint, It would take a few minutes to touch up the few marks. 
The door was covered completely in one coat
The Glidden went on smoothly & easily, no sagging

Since this was only a test & I actually want the basement stairway area white (not off-white) I'll put a coat of white in sometime in the future. Might be a few years - after it gets banged up some more

Compare this to the Behr - 2 coats to cover my doors & the wall in the same area. There was simply no way to use 1 coat or go back & touch up. So Behr needs 2x as much paint & 2x as much time to do the same thing
Plus Behr is thicker, does not spread as easily & sags

Both paints were mixed thoroughly, same brush was used for both. Both were purchased around the same time


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## Lucas718 (Nov 5, 2008)

After reading through this thread I've seen several people mention sagging in regards to Behr paint. What exactly does that mean?


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

The sagging is actually the paint sliding down the wall rather than staying put. It won't do it evenly so it actually starts sliding over paint below it like wrinkled skin.


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

I used Behr Ultra Premium last month (given to be by a friend, beautiful color). It was the smallest room done but the hardest to apply. It took constant rework to keep the paint from sagging or running. I now see three or four areas where I have sagging (it's like a vertical run, lol). That will be fun to sand off on the next paint job, lol.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Behr Ultra Premium 


Still crap:yes:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Agreed. They can name it _*Behr Super Ultra Premium High Grade Deluxe Top Notch Professional*_ and it's still garbage.


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

It's the first and last time for Behr for me, lol :yes:. Never again even if it is given to me, lol :no:. Oh well, this was just tempory anyway to spruce up the bathroom til it's remodeled next year. 

Still working on the LR and guess I'll just mud that 2ft x 5ft area over the mantle. The safe&simple did help to partially remove the outer layer of paint, everything underneath it is stuck so solid. I've spent 7 days on a ladder already in this room, so I'll use the mud, lol . So it's ready to start the plaster repairs and i've ran out of steam, lol. It's really slow mode for me right now. Had to take time to work with flowers, lol. :thumbsup:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Matthewt1970 said:


> Agreed. They can name it _*Behr Super Ultra Premium High Grade Deluxe Top Notch Professional*_ and it's still garbage.


And it's $38 at Home Depot :no:
That's price I saw


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