# Painting Brick



## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

I know this topic has been dealt with a thousand times and I have taken notes. I am getting ready to re-paint an old brick row house. Some time back, one member of this list wrote that: ' All exposed brick or mortar must be primed with an acrylic masonry or quick drying universal primer. Primers like Zinsser’s 123 Acrylic primer are great for painting exterior brick. It will dry quickly, 1-2 hours to top coat, allowing you to paint sooner'.

Is this gospel? My guy at SW says that the Duration line is <really> a combo primer - topcoat and will do the job. Anyone willing to weigh in here. Thanks.

Dick


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## NAV (Jun 2, 2009)

Your guy at SW doesn't know his product line. SW stopped saying Duration is a primer finish the 2nd year it was out, i think back in 03 or 04. Too many failures.

you should spot prime bare brick or masonry with Loxon masonry primer and topcoat with any exterior acrylic. I would recommend an elastomeric coating. if you like SW products (Loxon is a SW material) you can use the ConFlex elastomeric. they have a less expensive elastomeric too, i forget the name. 

I perfer to use VIP 8100 elastomeric paint.

Zinzer 123 is a good primer but i do not like its performance on exterior applications. the SW ProBlock acrylic preformes nicely outside so does ICI Gripper.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Zinzer 123 is a good primer but i do not like its performance on exterior applications. the SW ProBlock acrylic preformes nicely outside so does ICI Gripper. :thumbsup:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

NAV said:


> Your guy at SW doesn't know his product line. SW stopped saying Duration is a primer finish the 2nd year it was out, i think back in 03 or 04. Too many failures.
> 
> you should spot prime bare brick or masonry with Loxon masonry primer and topcoat with any exterior acrylic. I would recommend an elastomeric coating. if you like SW products (Loxon is a SW material) you can use the ConFlex elastomeric. they have a less expensive elastomeric too, i forget the name.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not they are still claiming it is self priming. Atleast on thier website it still says that, but ya, they shouldn't be calling it self priming. Nothing should really. No paint is a primer, and no primer is a paint. Bathroom and Kitchen paints can claim they self prime as you really aren't going to have the paint fall off the walls in most cases, and 95 times out of 100 people are using it over an already latex painted surface which doesn't need primer anyways.


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

NAV said:


> Your guy at SW doesn't know his product line. SW stopped saying Duration is a primer finish the 2nd year it was out, i think back in 03 or 04. Too many failures.
> 
> you should spot prime bare brick or masonry with Loxon masonry primer and topcoat with any exterior acrylic. I would recommend an elastomeric coating. if you like SW products (Loxon is a SW material) you can use the ConFlex elastomeric. they have a less expensive elastomeric too, i forget the name.
> 
> ...


Thanks a huge bunch. This information is worth a ton of potential problems down the road that I am now likely to avoid. I have found that many of these people at paint stores, where ever, are truly misinformed about their own product lines. Pretty pathetic. That's why I posed the question in the first place.

As long as I am on a roll, what about paint for the front porch? I just laid down a tongue and grove floor. I primed with an oil based primer - all sides plus the tongue and grove. SW has an acrylic porch paint. I think it is water based. The deck is under an over hang, which doesn't mean it isn't exposed to wind driven rain, etc.

Thanks.
Dick


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Seeing as you have already primed with oil, I would use an oil based deck enamel. It will last a LOT longer than latex.


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

*Primer for Brick*



chrisn said:


> Zinzer 123 is a good primer but i do not like its performance on exterior applications. the SW ProBlock acrylic preformes nicely outside so does ICI Gripper. :thumbsup:


I've been mulling over what you wrote.. Just got done with the pressure washing phase and am into the mortar repair/scraping phase on the brick. I have a full gallon of Zinzer 123 available. How insistent are you about using the ProBlock on the bare spots? The largest area of spot priming to do is around 4'x4' maybe. I am going with the SW Duration line for the top coat. The areas that are a problem are where someone years ago did some re-pointing and applied some crap paint which simply blew off in the pressure washing phase.

Thanks.
Richard


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Zinsser 123 is fine but make sure ya get a good coat on it. Masony paint will work fine too, but once you have sealed the surface with a good first coat you can use a standard good quality latex paint. Bare brick and masonry really will soak up the paint so be prepared.


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

Matthewt1970 said:


> Zinsser 123 is fine but make sure ya get a good coat on it. Masony paint will work fine too, but once you have sealed the surface with a good first coat you can use a standard good quality latex paint. Bare brick and masonry really will soak up the paint so be prepared.


Copied. I'll lay on the Zinsser...I decided to spend the extra bucks and go with SW's top of the line exterior paint - Duration. Prepping is going to take a bit of time. I'm dealing with around 1000 sq. ft. and this is one these Philadelphia style row houses making positioning an extension ladder 30' up an awkward time consuming affair. 

Thanks, once again.
Richard


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Originally Posted by *chrisn*  
_Zinzer 123 is a good primer but i do not like its performance on exterior applications. the SW ProBlock acrylic preformes nicely outside so does ICI Gripper. :thumbsup:_


Just to be clear,I did not originally post this,NAV did.:whistling2:

I did, however,agree with it.


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

chrisn said:


> Originally Posted by *chrisn*
> _Zinzer 123 is a good primer but i do not like its performance on exterior applications. the SW ProBlock acrylic preformes nicely outside so does ICI Gripper. :thumbsup:_
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry about that. I read faster than I process oftentimesinch:.

In any event this job has taken on a life of its own. Pressure washing the brick - now a day out and the old paint is coming off in huge strips. I'm going to be doing a lot more scraping than I anticipated. Let alone the re-pointing that will need to be done. I've decided to buy the ProBlock. There is just too much area to contend with.

Dick


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Duration is not intended to be used as a primer, its good for repaints of the similar color where priming is not needed. You need to prime any bear masonry and any stained masonry. I would use loxon to prime. We use loxon (sherwin williams) on masonry on commercial and residential structures. After you prime as needed you should apply two coats of a 100% acrylic paint such as sherwin williams super paint.


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## 4ThGeneration (May 3, 2009)

I would knock off any loose paint and do your scraping and any sanding before you wash the house down.

This way you can make sure the surface will be clean before your coatings take place.

As far as a primer I have used Loxon acrylic masonry with great results. It is breathable which is a plus and Especially if you think there could be adhesion problems with the older paint. 

I would follow up with the high build loxon to get you the thickness to build out any imperfections the brick may have.

there are other ways of doing it, so take this as my opinion if i was doing it.


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

housepaintingny said:


> Duration is not intended to be used as a primer, its good for repaints of the similar color where priming is not needed. You need to prime any bear masonry and any stained masonry. I would use loxon to prime. We use loxon (sherwin williams) on masonry on commercial and residential structures. After you prime as needed you should apply two coats of a 100% acrylic paint such as sherwin williams super paint.


Understood. It has been mentioned once before in this thread that Duration is not a primer per se. I'm going with the Loxon. I already had color cut into the Duration for the top coat.

Thanks. Dick


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

4ThGeneration said:


> I would knock off any loose paint and do your scraping and any sanding before you wash the house down.


By washing the house down, I'm assuming that you mean pressure washing. If so, that phase is over with. It appears that portions of the several of the brick walls years ago were retucked up to a height of approximately 7 feet from the ground. Afterwards, these sections were repainted with who knows what - but anyway a red color attempting to match up what was already there. This is the stuff that is peeling off down to the bare brick post pressure washer episode. 

When the paint first began peeling off as I was blasting away, my first thought was 'Oh crap', I don't want this to happen. But I'm sure it is for the best. I'm assuming that you would want to remove any paint that is not latched on securely. 

Once, I get done with the scraping and retucking - there is a bunch of that to do - I'll wash the building down one more time with a hose then prime where I have scraped and/or retucked. At least that is the plan for now.

Snip..



> I would follow up with the high build loxon to get you the thickness to build out any imperfections the brick may have. there are other ways of doing it, so take this as my opinion if i was doing it.


I hadn't considered the high build loxon as a follow up step. I may pass on that step. This is a rental unit - an old 3 story row house in a series of row house that all pretty are clones. The two apartments have been completely renovated. I'm hoping that if I do maybe not an 'A' job (that would be one where say I planned on living there myself for 20 years or something) - but a 'B+' job, then some of these other what I call slum landlords might consider doing the same thing. Probably not but at least I can hope. :yes:

Thanks for your help.
Dick


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## 4ThGeneration (May 3, 2009)

I hadn't considered the high build loxon as a follow up step. I may pass on that step. This is a rental unit - an old 3 story row house in a series of row house that all pretty are clones. The two apartments have been completely renovated. I'm hoping that if I do maybe not an 'A' job (that would be one where say I planned on living there myself for 20 years or something) - but a 'B+' job, then some of these other what I call slum landlords might consider doing the same thing. Probably not but at least I can hope. :yes:

Thanks for your help.
Dick[/quote]


This is something people I know are working on now. They are gonna start fining the city for homes that are not kept up as well as federal building that are dirty and sidewalks that are cracked, uneven or algae ridden. Too much tax money is taken for the city to not use it properly. We are going to propose a set time to start the ball and if not a lawsuit will be pressed naming the city council members.

Any homes in urban settings are gonna have to start applying anti graffiti coatings so when they are tagged it will be washed off easily daily.

Much more in the works, but people have to start taking pride. Where I am from in Jacksonville, fl had the same problem with the historic district all along the lower income areas as well and it was all cleaned up. looks like a new place with the new sidewalks, streets and painted buildings.

Of Coarse it did take getting the super Bowl to run things along quickly :whistling2:


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## RMCarner (Mar 23, 2009)

> This is something people I know are working on now. They are gonna start fining the city for homes that are not kept up as well as federal building that are dirty and sidewalks that are cracked, uneven or algae ridden. Too much tax money is taken for the city to not use it properly. We are going to propose a set time to start the ball and if not a lawsuit will be pressed naming the city council members.


I hear that. I'm currently living in Lancaster, PA. This is a city that use to be a nice place until the riffraff from NJ and NYC starting taking root. It also is the most densely populated inland city in the US of A. Founded in 1737. Our mayor has taken a pro-active stance toward absentee landlords and the like. I'm all for it even though I own rentals. By fixin' them up, I get a better cliental and increase the value of my property. Now each rental property here in the city must be inspected once every five years. Ya get on the wrong side of a city inspector - sure they can turn out to be an A hole. For the most part, my experiences with them have been positive, however.



> Much more in the works, but people have to start taking pride. Where I am from in Jacksonville, fl had the same problem with the historic district all along the lower income areas as well and it was all cleaned up. looks like a new place with the new sidewalks, streets and painted buildings.
> 
> Of Coarse it did take getting the super Bowl to run things along quickly :whistling2:


Hee, Hee. I lived in Jerksonville for quite some time. Was there the first two years after the Jags came into existence. For awhile I rented a house on College St. right off of Cassat Av. Used to be a Krispy Creme down the street. Many is the time I stopped in there when the sign was flashing in the window. I remember the Edgewood area quite well and thought that it had a lot of potential.

Dick


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## 4ThGeneration (May 3, 2009)

RMCarner said:


> I hear that. I'm currently living in Lancaster, PA. This is a city that use to be a nice place until the riffraff from NJ and NYC starting taking root. It also is the most densely populated inland city in the US of A. Founded in 1737. Our mayor has taken a pro-active stance toward absentee landlords and the like. I'm all for it even though I own rentals. By fixin' them up, I get a better cliental and increase the value of my property. Now each rental property here in the city must be inspected once every five years. Ya get on the wrong side of a city inspector - sure they can turn out to be an A hole. For the most part, my experiences with them have been positive, however.
> 
> Hee, Hee. I lived in Jerksonville for quite some time. Was there the first two years after the Jags came into existence. For awhile I rented a house on College St. right off of Cassat Av. Used to be a Krispy Creme down the street. Many is the time I stopped in there when the sign was flashing in the window. I remember the Edgewood area quite well and thought that it had a lot of potential.
> 
> Dick


Another fellow J-Ville person :>) I remember being a little kid and my Dad taking me to that window to watch them make the donuts. He used to work at the Winn-Dixie to the right of it. They closed that Winn-Dixie however.I know Cassat Ave, Edgewood and college st well. Edgewood had nice spots on it. Depended what end you were near :>)

I was working for my Grandpas company when the news came over the radio that we were awarded a franchise. I still remember the TV stations airing what we should call the team. Someone said call it the Jacksonville Drug Lords lol. I was thinking why bring truth into the name :>0

San Jose and and San Marco had some nice areas in there. High dollar people in "Bungalos" codeword for small expensive homes


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