# Nailers for joist hangers? How about the required 10D for uplift rating?



## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

I have a bunch of hangers to install. Hundreds. I was going to buy a strip nailer for the 10Dx1.5" into the header, BUT under the requirements for uplift, you must install full length 10Ds through the joist and into the header, in which I cannot find even one strip nailer that will do that? 

Any chance to modify a standard framer for this? 


Also, while we are on the subject, I have a Senco framer. No one likes it because it likes to double shoot. Obviously if you are on a good position, you can make it work, but in framing, that is rare. Was just installing some trusses and I looked like a rookie running that gun. I grabbed a Hitachi and had no problems. Curious if there any adjustments I can make other than buy the new trigger group? Maybe adjust the nose safety or something? Obviously what is happening is when fired, it recoils, then trips the safety again before you can get off the trigger.


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## Carguybill (Mar 21, 2017)

I have always used a palm nailer for simpson ties fast and easy and useful for other stuff don't know about your nail gun:vs_worry:


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Seconds on the palm nailer.


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## Californiadecks (Aug 30, 2012)

Hitachi or Paslode/Bostitch make great positive placement nailers. Both have them that shoot longs and shorts. Not too many people in the trades use palm nailers for straps/hangers anymore, around here anyway. You can also get them with the shorter magazine that for between bays better.







https://www.amazon.com/BOSTITCH-MCN250-StrapShot-Connector-Nailer/dp/B00AYAAKG0

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## Carguybill (Mar 21, 2017)

Positive placement are fast and great for contractors, but DIY guys usually will not spend that kind of money for something they will rarely use. (this is a diy forum):smartass:


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Yes bill, it IS DIY.....but the op is talking hundreds of joist hangers AND has already indicated that he was looking for a strip nailer. So thanks to CA Decks for the informative post.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Another vote for the palm nailer. 

They're fast and cheap and once you have one you'll surprised on how many other projects you'll pull it out for. 

Buy the full sized Senco...It's probably 80 bucks.


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## NotyeruncleBob (Mar 9, 2017)

I've been using the Bostitch framing nailer that converts to positive placement in seconds. It's a good framer, but so nice to be able to shoot the hanger nails without needing another gun. The nails for it are a little harder to find, but you can get them online easily enough. 
I don't think it shoots the long ones though and I haven't found any made for it either. For those long ones I've been either hand banging them in or using the palm nailer. 
Since you said you don't like your Senco so much, the Bostitch might be a good solution since it's essentially a framing gun and hanger nailer in one. I think it's the F21PL?


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

Simpson has joist hanger screws that can be driven with an impact driver. Would these work for your application?


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## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

NotyeruncleBob said:


> I've been using the Bostitch framing nailer that converts to positive placement in seconds. It's a good framer, but so nice to be able to shoot the hanger nails without needing another gun. The nails for it are a little harder to find, but you can get them online easily enough.
> I don't think it shoots the long ones though and I haven't found any made for it either. For those long ones I've been either hand banging them in or using the palm nailer.
> Since you said you don't like your Senco so much, the Bostitch might be a good solution since it's essentially a framing gun and hanger nailer in one. I think it's the F21PL?


Ha, ironically I just ordered one yesterday! Actually the F33 or 30-35* paper collated version. I also talked with Bostitch that verified I can shoot longer standard nails with the hanger tip no problem. It comes standard with the sequential trigger group and I would just have to figure out of I really want/need the bump trigger later. 

It is not that I don't like the Senco, its just the bump trigger when I typically need sequential for my stuff. I know when you are doing basic framing of 2x4s all day, bumping is great, but we are doing some technical stuff or crate building that just needs good control. The Senco has been quite a rock really. Not once failed to drive a nail. I also love the clip heads for basic stuff because I can jam more nails in it with a more compact gun. 

I bought the 33* Bostitch because I like the higher angle gun. I really did not price nails too much before hand but since I don't run it every day, I don't think it will be a big deal. I probably shoot 10K nails/yr. 

With regards to DIY, I guess I am a guy that can quickly see the advantage of letting a job pay for a tool to improve efficiency. This one gun alone will probably save me days in time on one job.


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## Bent Nail (Mar 22, 2017)

Found this thread in my search for commentary comparing different positive placement nail guns (shorthanded to "PPNG"), as I intend to buy one soon, but am not sure which one yet. 


My preference is any gun that Simpson Strong Tie and True Island Steel make fasteners for. I've already found a couple of PPNG models that Simpson Strong Tie does NOT make fasteners for, including the MAX HN65J high pressure model, and the Bostich MCN250 (despite Simpson stating that 33 degree nails will work, Bostich tech support strongly recommended only 35 degree collations, but the galvanized 35 degree 2.5" x .162" have been discontinued.


To get some alternatives out of the way, yes I have a palm nailer. Two of them. And yes I've used them on many a hanger and strap, following the full nail schedule called out for the strap. As well as mending plates (30+ nails per plate). And yes, despite wearing out and replacing a palm nailer for less than $50, I am positive that I want to spend $250 to $600 on a PPNG (or two), even though I have no shortage of hand hammers.


Here are a few candidates thus far:


Hitachi NR65AK2S (Short magazine, shoots 1.5" and 2.5", up to .162")
Hitachi NR65AK2 (Long magazine, shoots 1.5" and 2.5", up to .162")
Hitachi NR38AK (only shoots 1.5", but will fit between tight OC joists)


Bostich F33PT (33 degree paper tape, convertible nose tip)
Bostich F21PL (21 degree plastic collated, convertible nose tip)
Bostich MCN250 (35 degree, ruling out due to lack of fastener availability)
Bostich MCN150 (only shoots 1.5", but will fit between tight OC joists)


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I use the MCN250 almost weekly and have had no problem locating nails for it. I do buy in bulk online as often as I can. So they are out there, but probably not a HD or Lowe's.

Palm nailers are good, but unless you have a large capacity compressor on site, you will run out of air really quick. Just not practical for a double hot dog compressor and a hundred hangers.


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## Bent Nail (Mar 22, 2017)

I stopped buying nails at HD and Lowes, even name brand nails from Hitachi and DeWalt, after I did some comparative bend tests (see my user name) in a vice. 


The Hitachi and DeWalt branded nails compared in my tests were both made in Oman (now the DeWalt brand nails in the same size are made in China), and I compared the nails of the same size, length, coating, and diameter with Halsteel nails made in the USA.


I live in a seismic area, and I was concerned about house shaking from an earthquake, and wanted to know how well the plywood shear panel fasteners would hold up if subjected to being wiggled and wrangled back and forth by mother nature. So 2 3/8" siding/shear panel nails were used in the tests.


Long story short, the USA made nails withstood 3-4 times the number of bends until separation than the nails made in Oman. The nails made in China performed about the same as the nails made in Oman. The USA made Halsteel nails so clearly and convincingly withstood more bends back and forth until severing that I will only buy and build with high quality nails.


The box of 16D (true 3.5" x .162" 16D common, not 3.25" x .131 so called "16 shorts" that are 10D diameter) 21 degree HDG collated nails I purchased last week at the lumber yard cost $175.00 for 2,000. Definitely not a Home Depot item. So when I say I can't find the 2.5"x .162" 35 degree collated metal connector nails in ACQ rated HDG, it means I was not able to find them anywhere. Neither was the chat representative at Stanley Bostich. That doesn't mean they don't exist... it just means I need your help in finding them, especially if you have the MCN250.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

You're not going to find a .162 nail for the strapshot. It wasn't meant to shoot it. Bostitch manufacturers .148 that will fit the gun and provide the holding power. But, it appears you do not like branded items, so I won't be of much help. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bostitch-P...568451?hash=item4d50696dc3:g:9lIAAOSwaOVa~Yaa

Hitachi makes .162, but it is probably 33 degrees for their proprietary guns. https://www.ebay.com/itm/17140-2-1-...027899?hash=item25be272afb:g:C0wAAOSw5OZbd4Xj

Even Simpson Strong Tie collated nails are only .131 in diameter and 33 degrees. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-St...4:g:fD8AAOSwlUhbjnzx:sc:UPSGround!30582!US!-1


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## Bent Nail (Mar 22, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> Even Simpson Strong Tie collated nails are only .131 in diameter and 33 degrees. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-St...4:g:fD8AAOSwlUhbjnzx:sc:UPSGround!30582!US!-1





Simpson Strong Tie does indeed make 33 Degree metal connector nails in diameters larger than .131. 


In fact, the majority of their 33 degree metal connector nails are made in diameters larger than .131. 


More often than not, Simpson calls for nails larger than 8d to fulfill the structural value of their metal connectors, 


Reference:


https://www.strongtie.com/strongdri...rong-drive-33-scn-smooth-shank-connector-nail


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I've had this one for about 15 or more years and it works great.

Powerful and has two different heads one is for regular framing and one is for hangers.



https://www.amazon.com/BOSTITCH-N88RH-Heavy-Round-Nailer/dp/B00005JRLR


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

NotyeruncleBob said:


> I've been using the Bostitch framing nailer that converts to positive placement in seconds. It's a good framer, but so nice to be able to shoot the hanger nails without needing another gun. The nails for it are a little harder to find, but you can get them online easily enough.
> I don't think it shoots the long ones though and I haven't found any made for it either. For those long ones I've been either hand banging them in or using the palm nailer.
> Since you said you don't like your Senco so much, the Bostitch might be a good solution since it's essentially a framing gun and hanger nailer in one. I think it's the F21PL?


Kinda funny to see my own advice and respond to it before realizing it was me...
Update on the Bostitch F21PL: Been running two of them on various projects and building a house over the winter and we've had a mixed bag of results. It is nice to have the option to switch over to PP nailing as we have a lot of metal connectors in this build. But the reality is that the plastic collated 1.5" nails are about $50-$60 for a smallish box and we've blown through three boxes. That means we spent as much on nails as a dedicated PP gun that would shoot much cheaper paper collated nails. So no real savings there. One nice thing is that it does shoot longer nails and we can get .148 3 1/2" plastic collated so we have good options with other metal connectors that need more than a 1.5" nail. 
The bad...One of the guns is sitting on my bench in pieces after a catastrophic jam. Still can't get the nose back together properly so it might be headed to the trash. The other one has been rebuilt twice after the trigger seals blew out. These guns just don't hold up in the cold and wet conditions we have to build in up here. Warranty service was frustrating. Bostitch said we're completely covered and they'd give us a loaner while it's in the local Dewalt shop. Go down there and Dewalt says nope! $175 to fix a $175 gun and no loaner and it'll take 4 weeks. Had to argue and pull weight and threaten to dump all of our crew's Dewalt and Bostitch gear to get them to fix what they originally promised to fix. 
If I had the chance to do it all over I'd just get a couple Hitachi framers and a Strapshot.
BTW, If you already have the Bostitch you can get the longer .148 nails for it at the real lumber yards. They're made by TrueSpec.


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## Bent Nail (Mar 22, 2017)

NotYerUncleBob2... thank you for your useful post. 


TrueSpec nails are made in USA, by TreeIslandSteel, same as Halsteel nails. The difference is that TrueSpec nails are head coded (with stampings or paint colors, depending on which type) so that the "true spec" of the nail can be identified by the inspector (to whom you provide a color/stamp code chart) without having to pull the nail.


Back to the PP nailers, and your statement that were you to do it all again, you'd get a StrapShot nail gun for your positive placement needs. 


Why would you get a Strapshot (tradename for the Bostich MCN-150 and 250)... especially after your poor customer service experience with Bostich, following two Bostich nail guns that broke while still under warranty, one of which "is headed to the trash", and the other of which had to be rebuilt twice, for as much cost to service as to replace?


If your do it over again plan included getting two Hitachi framers, why would you not go ahead and get the Hitachi StrapTite (aka NR65AK2) positive placement gun?


Is there something about the Bostich positive placement Strapshot that appeals to you enough to ignore your previously poor experience with Bostich?


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

I didn't really mean specifically which dedicated PP nailer I'd get, just that I'd get a dedicated PP nailer. I'd have to look into it more, and probably will before the next full house build, but I'd lean to one of the other makers over Bostitch at this point. 
I do still have a couple other Bostitch guns. The cap stapler and roof coil nailer. No real complaint with either of them at the moment but I'm not a full time roofer so they're not getting the workout some others would give them. For a couple roofs a year, they're holding up.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

NotYerUncleBob2 said:


> I didn't really mean specifically which dedicated PP nailer I'd get, just that I'd get a dedicated PP nailer. I'd have to look into it more, and probably will before the next full house build, but I'd lean to one of the other makers over Bostitch at this point.
> I do still have a couple other Bostitch guns. The cap stapler and roof coil nailer. No real complaint with either of them at the moment but I'm not a full time roofer so they're not getting the workout some others would give them. For a couple roofs a year, they're holding up.


Do you add oil ( 1-2 drops ) before each daily use.?


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

ron45 said:


> Do you add oil ( 1-2 drops ) before each daily use.?


Always put in oil. Three drops.


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## Californiadecks (Aug 30, 2012)

I've had both the Hitachi and I now have the Strapshot. The Hitachi has a bar that needs depressed that's very annoying. For that I'll not be using the Hitachi. Even if all three of my Bostich nailers piss the bed. I'd just get new ones they are that much better to use imo. 


_______________________
[emoji631] AMERICA FIRST [emoji631]


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

I used a nail gun and palm nailer to secure the joists to the joist hangers in 2004. I looked at the joist hangers a few years ago and many of the nails had worked themselves anywheres from 1/4 inch to 1/1/2 inch out due to the strong wind load (9,000 feet facing the divide) and a bunch I could just pull out with my fingers.

After I put my eyeballs back in their sockets, I grabbed a ladder and replaced them with 3 inch deckmate screws and inspect them more now...

Going to add some more bracing to reduce the flexing, too.

So, if you have nailed your joist hangers, you might want to inspect them.

deck is cantilevered pressure-treated with Trex decking, 10x50 feet on a varying slope, 14..20 ft high.

Edit: Added a 2nd, lower deck below it a few years later.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

RockyMtBeerMan said:


> I used a nail gun and palm nailer to secure the joists to the joist hangers in 2004. I looked at the joist hangers a few years ago and many of the nails had worked themselves anywheres from 1/4 inch to 1/1/2 inch out due to the strong wind load (9,000 feet facing the divide) and a bunch I could just pull out with my fingers.
> 
> After I put my eyeballs back in their sockets, I grabbed a ladder and replaced them with 3 inch deckmate screws and inspect them more now...
> 
> ...


 It is always a good idea to do periodic inspections and after a big weather or seismic event. 
All these things are meant to get you thru the big one, no one ever talks about the next one.:vs_whistle:


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