# rubber roof over tar & thoughts on quote



## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

Good Evening,

I am a first time homeowner and slowly learning the ropes. If anyone can provide any feedback, advice, or words of wisdom I would greatly appreciate it. 

I have a tar/gravel roof that is about 35 years old and needs replaced. After speaking with several roofers I found one with good reviews, pricing, and knowledge(or so it seems). 

1st question: What are the con's for putting a rubber roof over tar(the gravel will obviously be removed by me)? The main reason for not disposing of the old roof is I live in a row home downtown and disposal would be very manual and expensive.

3rd quetsion: Is there any industry standard for warranties? This company has a 2 year "watertight" warranty. 

3rd question: Does this quote seem reasonable and well put together(as far as materials?

FIVE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED AND 
SEVENTY FIVE ($5,175.00) DOLLARS. 
Scope of Work;
Upper 3
rd
Story Roof
 Install 4” plywood strip around perimeter of roof area for securing edge metal. 
 Mechanically attach 1 layer of ½” fiberboard to existing roof system. 
 Install .060 fully adhered Black EPDM membrane roof system following manufactures 
details. 
 Install new white drip edge and gravel stop at leading edges of building. 
 Tie new roof system into existing neighboring rubber roofing. 
 Install new counterflashing and caulking at chimney. 
Lower 2
nd
Story Roof
 Install 4” plywood strip around perimeter of roof area for securing edge metal. 
 Mechanically attach 1 layer of ½” fiberboard to existing roof system. 
 Install .060 fully adhered Black EPDM membrane roof system following manufactures 
details. 
 Install new white drip edge leading edges of building. 
 Tie new roof system into existing neighboring rubber roofing. 
 Terminate EPDM membrane at brick wall with termination bar and surface mounted 
counterflashing. 
 Install new counterflashing and caulking at chimney location. 
Qualifications;
 Permits, fees, bonds excluded. 
 Homeowner to broom clean and dispose of all loose stone and gravel from roof areas. 
 All material to be hand hoisted to roof. 
 Owner to receive approval of neighboring properties to tie-into their existing roof areas. 
 Pennsylvania Home Improvement Contractor # PA058194 
 Current City of Harrisburg Contractor license on file. 
 Wood decking replacement due to water damage or soft wood conditions to be performed 
at a cost of $3.50 per square foot installed. 
 Existing gutters and downspouts to remain. 

Thank you in advance for any responses and look forward to learning a lot from this forum.


THE DIMENSIONS OF MY ROOF ARE 
2ND FLOOR 12x35
3RD FLOOR 17x31


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

" Permits, fees, bonds excluded. 
 Homeowner to broom clean and dispose of all loose stone and gravel from roof areas. 

 Owner to receive approval of neighboring properties to tie-into their existing roof areas. "

Raises my eyebrows a bit.

No permits? No fees? -----No core sample either????? Somebody better find out how many layers are up there before adding one. 2 roofs max is the norm and enough to stress most structures, irregardless of current local code.

Roofer should have a chute for disposal of the gravel below. I'm sure you don't have one.


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## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I just received this quote today and am going to ask some questions tomorrow. 

What additional fees, permits, and bonds could there be?

What do you mean by no core sample?

How can I determine "how many roofs" are already there?


This company does have chutes but there are a lot of tree's and it would be extremely hard to setup. I offered to clear off all the gravel to save some costs. I'm just putting them in bags and dropping them in my backyard


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Gravel/trash understood now. You're OK there. Be VERY careful! Sweep the edge clear first or you'll slip in loose gravel!

Some areas/townships/cities/counties require permits for roofs.

A core sample would tell how many roofs are on the building. Building can usually carry a dead load of 7 pounds per foot, and live loads of another 3, or so. I'm fuzzy on the 'exact' amount.

Each layer of roof adds to the dead load and decreases the capacity to carry a live load. If I walk on the roof, that's 2# per sq. ft. right there.

Get enough load up there and the roof, or even the building comes down, worst case, and can kill or maim. Best case, things only sag or shift and windows breaks, doors don't work, etc.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Rowhouse, right? Code most likely requires FireRated EPDM. .060 Reinforced Fire Rated is what I'd insist on my client using.
( So does the Building Inspector here.) I don't want to be on the hook because a fire one block away set your house on fire too when it spread.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

BTW, I prefer a 1x8 nailer around the perimeter to ensure I have a good surface to attach it, and then the roof too. Since it's 3/4" thick, I use 1" ISO insulation board instead of 1/2" ISO.

I never use the fiberboard becasue it can absorb lots of moisture and ruin the roof after adding a ton of soaked up water to the structure.

THe more I mull this one over, the less I like certain specs.


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## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

thanks so much for all the info. I was going to go with this guy but I'm now going to get a few more quotes to see how others match up.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Besides the items Frank mentioned, some "one way" vents are typically installed in EPDM when it's installed over an asphalt roof to vent any accumulation of asphalt gas which can be damaging to EPDM.


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## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks I'll ask about that as well. I'm going to get a few more quotes and I'll let you guys know how I make out.

Are two year warranties standard for residential?

Is it appropriate to haggle with these roofers or should I take a quote at face value?


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

5 year warranty here. I never haggle, per se. I give a price for what it takes to cover all the bases. If budget issues arise, I may accomadate by scratching some items off the project, IF it won't affect the proper outcome of the job.
I won't drop down to non-fire rated EPDM, nor from re-inforced to non-reinforced. (Almost zero shrinkage issues with re-inforced).
I might reuse some of the siding that gets damaged during the install as opposed to going all new. I might drop back to aluminum flashing from copper.
I have to sleep at night and I can't do that if one of my roofs leak on a stormy night like we're currently having here.
I might let the HO remove the gravel to save some dollars.
Regular clients, I'll even finance a portion if necessary.

Haggling can be a no-win situation for all. Some will drop their price to meet another's price and then skimp where it counts most.

Get referrals and ask to look at roofs at least 5-10 years old by the roofers you're choosing from. Any idiot can make a 3 week old roof look good.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

wfmrules3 said:


> Thanks I'll ask about that as well. I'm going to get a few more quotes and I'll let you guys know how I make out.
> 
> *Are two year warranties standard for residential?
> 
> Is it appropriate to haggle with these roofers or should I take a quote at face value?*


I only give a one year workmanship warranty, but have gone back long after that and fixed something we didn't do right the 1st time. The last time stormchasers came through here, they were giving 10 yr warranties, but could not be found 3 months after the job was done. If you've vetted the roofer properly, the chances of having a warranty issue are pretty slim. There's no profit in warranty calls and advertising is expensive. The good ones get good word of mouth advertising by doing it right the 1st time. 

You won't make me mad trying to haggle and I hope I won't make you mad when I won't. I know what it costs to perform the operations we do and what I have to charge to still be open next year when you call me with a warranty problem. I price accordingly, not one penny more or less unless I sense that you're a PITA and then you get a PITA tax. But, a crew that likes the customer will often do some little extras that might result in a change order for a PITA. A 12 pack of cold soft drinks or just a pitcher of ice water on a hot day can buy a lot of good will. Good luck.


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## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

I got another quote today and it was 1600 less. This guy comes highly rated and has great reviews but I'm questioning materials and methods??



*
DETAILS
RUBBER
Install ½ in recovery board (screws and plates)
Install .045 epdm rubber roofing (glue down)
​.060 add $400.00
Install new drip edge and gravel stop
Install cured and uncured flashings
Install term bar and water cutoff
Install lap sealant at all laps and flashings
Remove debris from property
Warranty 2 yrs labor

*
*
*


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## wfmrules3 (Jul 2, 2010)

anybody?!?! I have to make a decision on Monday! I need to make a decision quickly because unfortunately I rent out the 2nd/3rd floor of my place so my tenants are the one having problems.

I don't want to be cheap about it, however I don't want to get ripped off. Thanks!


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

They don't make a FR -RM in .045. It doesn't sound like the new ones is using FR-RM .060 either. I'd pass. Non -reinforced can shrink and pull away from walls and it really stresses any seams too.

Rowhouse, right? Code most likely requires FireRated EPDM. .060 Reinforced Fire Rated is what I'd insist on my client using.


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