# Is it common for roofers to NOT slice underlayment on a ridge vent before installing?



## jcarlan (Dec 19, 2011)

Hello Forum Folks,
We have a new addition with a roof designed with soffit vents and a ridge vent. Our builder laid the underlayment (tar paper looking stuff) over the plywood sheathing and then was on to another job when the roofers came to install. My husband and I hired the roofers directly (not sub-contracted by GC). A beautiful looking standing seam metal roof was put on our roof.

Turns out a year later, we have attic condensation issues. After poking around a bit, we found that the underlayment wasn't sliced before the metal roof and ridge vent cap was put into place. Here comes the blame game: contractor says it was the roofer's responsibility and the roofer's say that they didn't have instructions to do so and it is the contractors responsibility. We live in Vermont and there isn't a code that demands ridge venting. There certainly were visible soffits all around the house for the roofers to see upon giving us a quote and on installation day.

See attached photo of our house sometime before roofers arrived.

I tend to side w/ our contractor. Would any roofer NOT slice the underlayment before installing a standing seam metal roof with ridge vent cap?

Thankful for forums like this,
Jean


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## shazapple (Jun 30, 2011)

I assume you are looking for someone to come out and fix this without cost to you. It doesn't make sense for the contractor to do it. Unless you gave the roofer plans or documents stating he was to cut the ridge, I'd say you have to suck it up and pay them to come out again and fix it.


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## josall (May 7, 2011)

Whoever installed the ridge vent owns the problem.


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## jcarlan (Dec 19, 2011)

Luckily we haven't finished the interior: the sheetrock closing off that attic space hasn't been taped yet. So, my contractor came back to fix the problem by removing sheetrock sections, getting up in there and slicing it open, then reapplying the sheetrock. I don't want to pay for that work to FIX said problem so I'm wondering for you all where typically does that responsibility lie? With me, the homeowner who hired contractor/roofer?


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## jcarlan (Dec 19, 2011)

Question----



josall said:


> Whoever installed the ridge vent owns the problem.


By that do you mean my contractor who installed the plywood sheathing to make the 1" wide opening? or the roofer who installed the metal cap on top of the underlayment covered 1" opening?


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## r00ferguy (Nov 12, 2011)

the roofers should have cut the underlayment 100% bet they were just lazy to do it


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## josall (May 7, 2011)

The roofer, when you hired him to install the ridge "vents" it is assumed that they would vent.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Had the original contractor hired the roofer, the responsibility for the roof and any related issues should have fallen on the contractor and/or the roofer. But, in my albeit meaningless opinion, at the point at which you hired the roofer, independent of the original contractor, you and the roofer assumed responsibility for the roof and any related issues, and, while it would have been great if the contractor had pointed the issue out to you in advance, it does not make sense to me that the original contractor has any culpability in this particular matter. So, while the roofer should have addressed it properly, which would have been a simple task, unless he or she is willing to assume financial responsibility for the corrective actions, it seems like a somewhat costly lesson that you will have to chalk up to experience.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

"After poking around a bit, we found that the underlayment wasn't sliced before the metal roof and ridge vent cap was put into place." 
The roofer put the vent on. They knew they were venting the ridge. They had to have known it had to be open if they were venting it. What more can I say.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

tinner666 said:


> "After poking around a bit, we found that the underlayment wasn't sliced before the metal roof and ridge vent cap was put into place."
> The roofer put the vent on. They knew they were venting the ridge. They had to have known it had to be open if they were venting it. What more can I say.


Frank wins :thumbup:


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

You say the roofer's didn't have instructions to do so. You hired the roofer, therefore it is your responsibility to inform them of the ridge vent.

What confuses me is why the roofer's would do a roof and not ask you (acting as the GC) what kind of ventilation the house has.


I don't do standing seam steel. Does the ridge look the same whether it has a ridge vent or not? I imagine it is always vented to ventilate the underside of the steel itself, but I don't know for sure.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

If everyone wants to get technical about it I'm sure you can get into all the talk about "well, legally..." or "what did the contract say?" etc.
I don't work like that. 
As a professional, when someone hires me it is my responsibility as an expert to do the job properly and to make sure everything is proper or at least inform the customer and give them the decision. They hired a professional and that person should have addressed the issue as part of the system. Some projects have a vented ridge assembly, some do not. But it's the roofer's responsibility to know this and address it properly. They may not have cut the ridge because they didn't install a vented ridge system to begin with so it isn't going to matter if the ridge is cut or not.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I hate to open another can of worms, but I guess it ought to asked now instead of later.
Did the GC damage the bug screen any? Did they even install the bug screen?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

OldNBroken said:


> If everyone wants to get technical about it I'm sure you can get into all the talk about "well, legally..." or "what did the contract say?" etc.
> I don't work like that.
> As a professional, when someone hires me it is my responsibility as an expert to do the job properly and to make sure everything is proper or at least inform the customer and give them the decision. They hired a professional and that person should have addressed the issue as part of the system. Some projects have a vented ridge assembly, some do not. But it's the roofer's responsibility to know this and address it properly. They may not have cut the ridge because they didn't install a vented ridge system to begin with so it isn't going to matter if the ridge is cut or not.


Hey, I agree with you, but.......

When the blame game starts, it always get's technical.

And I really didn't see anywhere where it said they hired a professional. Maybe, maybe not. The only thing we know is that the GC started the roof by papering it in and the homeowner hired another company to install the rest of the roof.....who wasn't informed of the entire roof system.

IMO, any "pro" would have asked about the ventilation. Someone hired as a sub, maybe not.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Yeah MJW, we don't know exactly who they hired. I was just commenting on how it should be if a professional was doing the job.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

MJ and OnB,
you're both right and make valid points. The homeowner obviously didn't hire a legit roofer. Surprises me that the GC didn't take care of providing a roofer. Why would the HO hire him and he doesn't take care of a simple but important part of the job? I would not hold him responsible in this case though, since he relinquished the responsibility to the HO. If the HO wanted to hire their own roofer, I just have to wonder why. Did they think they would save money and find somebody cheaper? If they did, sounds like they got what they paid for.
Mike Hawkins


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## pkrapp74 (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm assuming the GC put the felt on (something the roofer would normally do) because he was either instructed to by the HO, or because he wanted to "seal" up the house due to weather or not knowing when the roofer would be there. In either case, the roofer could be liable for damages occured. However,without a written contract with cutting the felt detailed, you really don't have legal recourse. Even if you could prove the roofer did or did not do something to cause damage, the monetary value wouldn't be worth the time or trouble. Even in small claims court, they would stiff you on any money awarded.


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## jcarlan (Dec 19, 2011)

tinner666 said:


> I hate to open another can of worms, but I guess it ought to asked now instead of later.
> Did the GC damage the bug screen any? Did they even install the bug screen?


I didn't notice a bug screen when my head was up in the attic space while the GC was slicing underlayment that had drops of condensation on the inside. Hmmmm, bug screen -- I'll have to check that out tomorrow. I certainly could feel the air move as the holes were made.


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## jcarlan (Dec 19, 2011)

firehawkmph said:


> MJ and OnB,
> The homeowner obviously didn't hire a legit roofer. Surprises me that the GC didn't take care of providing a roofer.


This roofer was certainly legit and had a good reputation. Our GC works a bit differently -- he has a circle of contractors that he recommends and we hire and pay the concrete guy, electrician, plumber, etc on our own. Certainly our GC and all other construction folks have been absolutely fabulous to work with and have been integrating well --- except for this little mishap. 

I just found out this roofer has an ex-partner who is his ex exactly because of this type of work. Unfortunately they separated a couple years ago and both go by the same name !#[email protected]#[email protected]!!! This sloppy roofer covers the VT area with the business name and the other guy distinguishes himself as the New Hampshire guy w/ the same business name. Confusing, aye?

Lesson learned -- THANKS for your time and your posts!! :thumbup:
Jean


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## chb70 (Jan 29, 2009)

When the roofer installed the ridge vent, it made the roofer responsible.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

chb70 said:


> When the roofer installed the ridge vent, it made the roofer responsible.


Except there is no indication from the OP that a vented ridge assembly was even installed. There is a difference. Just because the ridge sheeting was cut doesn't matter much if a vented ridge assy wasn't used. Bare minimum it would be a bug screen fastened over the ridge opening and a loose seal on the ridge of the metal roof.


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## Double-A (Dec 13, 2011)

Ah, communication.

While I have great regard for Tinner's expertise, relying on "should have known" is a recipe for disaster ... or attic condensation.

A clear, complete, written scope of work ... reviewed with the crew and crew leader every morning of the install, if necessary, is the only way to prevent problems and miscommunication. 

As a homeowner, you must demand a complete scope in writing, and then review it and ask questions.


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## chb70 (Jan 29, 2009)

> Except there is no indication from the OP that a vented ridge assembly was even installed. There is a difference. Just because the ridge sheeting was cut doesn't matter much if a vented ridge assy wasn't used. Bare minimum it would be a bug screen fastened over the ridge opening and a loose seal on the ridge of the metal roof.


My only question to the roof contractor would be how was he venting the attic, as roof contractors that is a very important piece of the puzzle.

It may not be the roof contractors legal responsabilty if there was no ridge vent installed or contracted but it was his mistake, if it was not installed or contracted.

Complete Roof


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## More Power! (Aug 2, 2011)

chb70 said:


> It may not be the roof contractors legal responsabilty if there was no ridge vent installed or contracted ...


But there was. From the OP:



> My husband and I hired the roofers directly (not sub-contracted by GC). A beautiful looking standing seam metal roof was put on our roof.
> 
> Turns out a year later, we have attic condensation issues. After poking around a bit, we found that the underlayment wasn't sliced before the metal roof and ridge vent cap was put into place.


What kind of roofer installs a ridge vent that doesn't actually, you know, _vent_???

Jim


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## Double-A (Dec 13, 2011)

Well, More Power, it might have to do with the "ridge vent cap" quote from the homeowner. 

A standing seam roof has a cap piece, but the cap piece itself is not necessarily a ridge vent. It is a cap. You can install a cap without installing a vent system. A lot of metal roofing is installed without the ridge vent ... not that it's right, just that it happens. With some manufacturers, there is a foam-type piece that goes underneath it (bug screen), and over the slot cut in the decking. That system together makes the "ridge vent".

If the ridge vent expectation wasn't clear to the contractor, and it didn't make the "contract" then the right parts didn't get ordered by the expediter, and it wasn't on the crew's work order, and everybody follows orders and goes home for the day and the ridge vent doesn't get installed. That's how these things happen. It's not that a guy is a schmuck for saying "it's not in my contract" .. it's that that's what the contract is for -- laying out in black and white what the trade is agreeing to do for how much. The contract's just printed on paper ... if you need another page so that all your expectations are in writing -- add a page!

That's also the problem with having a hundred trades running around without a true "GC" -- it's an endless game of finger pointing. If there had been one prime contract, it would have been on the GC period end of story.

Still, if this is the only "gotcha" in a home addition of this size done without a full GC, they probably still saved money over a full GC's charge on the job. In this case the "GC" is really just a guy that has handled a few -- but not all -- trades, and the homeowner is the real GC.

Of course, all of that is moot if they actually ordered and installed the correct parts without cutting back the ridge ... which I have seen done.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

No MorePower! The OP said the sheeting was spaced for a ridge vent (framing), not the roof ridge cap. A vented-ridge assembly is part of the roofing. Two different things. Every major mfr has a vented and a non-vented ridge assembly. If there is no venting then cutting the underlayment doesn't serve much of a purpose other than allowing bugs easier access to inside spaces.


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## AndyGump (Sep 26, 2010)

jcarlan said:


> Luckily we haven't finished the interior: the sheetrock closing off that attic space hasn't been taped yet. So, my contractor came back to fix the problem by removing sheetrock sections, getting up in there and slicing it open, then reapplying the sheetrock. I don't want to pay for that work to FIX said problem so I'm wondering for you all where typically does that responsibility lie? With me, the homeowner who hired contractor/roofer?



The question I have is, why is there no attic access? 

Are you going to have to have someone open the sheet-rock every time you need to get up there?

Andy.


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## Frank67 (Dec 30, 2011)

Heres the deal. I used to be a roofer. If i put a ridge vent on and there was no place for the air to flow I would ask myself why am i even putting a vent on. So the roofers are to blame. A little common sense goes a long way.
That would be like putting up a curtain on a wall with no window. Would not make sense.


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## RyanML (Jan 5, 2012)

I dont know what kind of a roofer would not cut the ridge before putting on ridge vent...roofers fault...


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Double-A
 "While I have great regard for Tinner's expertise, relying on "should have known" is a recipe for disaster ... or attic condensation." 
I tend to elide over a lot of the 'obvious' things when typing. Wording of contract, understanding each other's intent, etc. I tend to jump straight to the summary, if you know what I mean. Just seeing the flat ridge would have made me get into specifics. Just bidding the job would have made me inquire about it, etc, and get specific with the client.  

Like you say, it's all about communication. There was a lack in this case, somewhere.


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