# Underground Run To Outlet For Pool. LB fitting out of siding?



## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Need to come about 40 feet off the rear of the house to accomodate an GFI outlet to run a pool pump. GFI outlet will be mounted in a weatherproof box on a 4x4 post cemented in the ground near the filter.
I want to run plastic conduit in a trench from house to the 4x4post.
Want to come thru the rim joist in the basement which will put me about 8 inches up from the last edge of the vinyl siding shown by red in the picture. My question is what fitting is used first on the outside of the siding to transition from horizontaly thru the rim joist to vertically down the house and into the trench in the ground?

Would an LB fitting be used?
Is a vinyl siding mounting block needed?

Thanks


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

Yesa PVC LB will do the trick and not look bad. If you are using PVC for the whole run you will need an expansion joint under the LB so when he frost gets in the ground and moves the ground, the pipe will have some where to move instead of pulling out of the LB. Here is a picture of one http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...i=14cr7tfoe&sigb=13dnct6p9&fr=yhs-avgb-chrome


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

How is the LB fitting secured against the siding? Is it basically secured by the horizonta conduit piece that goes thru the siding and rim joist into a box on the inside of the house? good tip on the expansion joint fitting.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

That is all the holds it in place plus you should have a clip before it goes into the room.

Just make sure when you install the expansion joint that it is sitting at its midway point and not all the way closed.

SOme duct seal around the LB and inside the LB will help prevent the cold air from getting inside the house.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks for the ideas. I know how all the wire connections need to be made. No problem there. Its just I never worked with a run outside.
If my junction box on the inside will be metal. is there a fitting to transition from the pvc conduit to fit into a 3/4 knockout in a metal junction box


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

collegetry said:


> If my junction box on the inside will be metal. is there a fitting to transition from the pvc conduit to fit into a 3/4 knockout in a metal junction box


On the end of the plastic conduit inside the house glue on a female adaptor. Then use a 3/4 EMT set screw fitting with the male threads of the set screw fitting into the female threads of the female adaptor.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

collegetry said:


> If my junction box on the inside will be metal. is there a fitting to transition from the pvc conduit to fit into a 3/4 knockout in a metal junction box


Just use a male terminal adapter. It looks like half a coupling with male threads on one side. You will also need a locknut.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

What is that?









It looks like some sort of 1/2"-3/4" reducing coupling that I've never seen.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

k_buz said:


> What is that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I beleive the PVC part would be female threaded and then you make a nipple with a piece of EMT and two connectors, complete waste of money.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

I've seen PVC female adapters, but that doesn't look like any I've seen.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

I think it is just the angle the picture was taken from.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> I think it is just the angle the picture was taken from.


I agree, it looks tapered, but it's not.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> I think it is just the angle the picture was taken from.


Not the angle. I screwed up and put a stock photo of a PVC coupling not a female adaptor. Good eye everyone.

And like Jim Port suggested a simpler way is to use the male adaptor on the end of the PVC to go into a knockout on your metal box.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

found this on another thread


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

That is the idea. Typically the LB would be more flush to the siding.

Don't forget to caulk where the fitting leaves the house.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> That is the idea. Typically the LB would be more flush to the siding.


In the post I found the photo on the person did say the LB was more flush after final install


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Let me ask another question. Say in place of the LB fitting on the outside of the house, I wanted to have an outlet at that location. Couldnt a box be installed instead of the LB, a GFI in the box, then from load of GFI run wires down out of box thru pvc conduit in the trench to the location of the pool pump outlet?

If I used an LB fitting I would just drill a hole hru siding into rim joist. But with a box, I dont think I could just attach that to vinyl siding.

What type of box could be installed on the siding?
Would a mounting block be needed?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

When you mount the box on the outside, don't tighten the screws so much that they pull the siding in.
This could require longer screws.

I would not feed the gfci at the pool from the load side of the gfci at the house, but I would use 2 gfci's.
This is just my opinion, as it will work either way.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You might be able to use one of these boxes.

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/siding-mounting-blocks/outlet-box-with-threaded-openings/


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> You might be able to use one of these boxes.
> 
> http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/siding-mounting-blocks/outlet-box-with-threaded-openings/


 
Thanks alot. Looks like the FS8141T for 1/2" double 4 siding is what i need.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

OP is running conduit the entire trench. Does that mean you cannot run UF (say 14-2 UF) cable inside the conduit then? That you have to run THWN wires inside the conduit? Seams it would be easier to just pull UF cable through but I don't think NEC allows this. Does someone know for sure and possibly a code reference?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

curiousB said:


> OP is running conduit the entire trench. Does that mean you cannot run UF (say 14-2 UF) cable inside the conduit then? That you have to run THWN wires inside the conduit? Seams it would be easier to just pull UF cable through but I don't think NEC allows this. Does someone know for sure and possibly a code reference?


Since this is a pool, he cannot use UF, he has to use THWN, with a minimum #12 awg insulated equipment ground.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

stickboy1375 said:


> Since this is a pool, he cannot use UF, he has to use THWN, with a minimum #12 awg insulated equipment ground.


Thanks for this info. I was planning on using the individual wires but did not know it was required since a pool was involved.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

If the is a permanently installed pool, you will have to keep the GFCI 10 feet from the pool, or not less than 5 feet with a single receptacle, twist lock and GFCI protected. 

You will also need a general purpose receptacle 10' min, 20' maximum from the pools edge.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

collegetry said:


> Thanks for this info. I was planning on using the individual wires but did not know it was required since a pool was involved.


This only applies to a permanently installed pool.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

stickboy1375 said:


> If the is a permanently installed pool, you will have to keep the GFCI 10 feet from the pool, or not less than 5 feet with a single receptacle, twist lock and GFCI protected.
> 
> You will also need a general purpose receptacle 10' min, 20' maximum from the pools edge.


 
680.22A1Receptacles that provide power for motors/pumps/loads that directly relate to the circulation and sanitation system shall be located at least 10ft from the inside walls of the pool or not less than 6ft from the inside walls of the pool IF they meet ALL of the following:
-single receptacle
-locking configuration employed
-grounding type
-have GFCI protection

680.22A3 A permananently installed pool must have at least one 125V 15 or 20 A receptacle on a gen-purpose branch circuit that is located a minimum of 6ft, but no more than 20ft, from the pool's inside wall. This receptacle must not be more than 6.5ft above the floor, platform or grade level serving the pool.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> 680.22A1Receptacles that provide power for motors/pumps/loads that directly relate to the circulation and sanitation system shall be located at least 10ft from the inside walls of the pool or not less than 6ft from the inside walls of the pool IF they meet ALL of the following:
> -single receptacle
> -locking configuration employed
> -grounding type
> ...



The part in bold is only for the 2011 NEC, and yes, it is 6', not 5' as I stated.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> IF they meet ALL of the following:
> -single receptacle
> -locking configuration employed
> -grounding type
> -have GFCI protection


thanks for all the info but what in the world does a single locking grounding type GFI look like?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

collegetry said:


> thanks for all the info but what in the world does a single locking grounding type GFI look like?


You won't find one. The pump probably comes with a regular prong plug. This is one of those areas where I wish the code and the manufacturers come come to agreement.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> You won't find one. The pump probably comes with a regular prong plug. This is one of those areas where I wish the code and the manufacturers come come to agreement.


Jim, I've never seen a pump come with a cord unless it was a storable pool. And I've wired a lot of pools.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

collegetry said:


> thanks for all the info but what in the world does a single locking grounding type GFI look like?


It doesn't exist as stated, you use a twist lock receptacle and provide gfci protection via gfci breaker or faceless gfci.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

stickboy1375 said:


> It doesn't exist as stated, you use a twist lock receptacle and provide gfci protection via gfci breaker or faceless gfci.


I know what a GFCI breaker is but if the pool pump has a "normal" 3 prong plug(hot-neutral-groun), is a twist lock outlet made for that?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

collegetry said:


> I know what a GFCI breaker is but if the pool pump has a "normal" 3 prong plug(hot-neutral-groun), is a twist lock outlet made for that?


You would replace the 'normal' 3 prong plug with a twist lock style cord cap.










You are only allowed a 3' cord by the way, so make sure your pool filter pump is not installed right next to the pool like most installations I see.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

stickboy1375 said:


> You would replace the 'normal' 3 prong plug with a twist lock style cord cap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That would involve removing the "normal" 3 prong plug and cord and replacing with what you have pictured. You would think the pump moter would come with that plug/cord already attached.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

collegetry said:


> That would involve removing the "normal" 3 prong plug and cord and replacing with what you have pictured. You would think the pump moter would come with that plug/cord already attached.


What type of pool do you have? Also, how long is the cord already installed?
What you might have is a temperory cord pre installed, I have seen those before and they come with a warning label.


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## anesthes (Jan 21, 2011)

darren said:


> Yesa PVC LB will do the trick and not look bad. If you are using PVC for the whole run you will need an expansion joint under the LB so when he frost gets in the ground and moves the ground, the pipe will have some where to move instead of pulling out of the LB.


I got gonged for the first time this past summer for no expansion joint on sched 40 PVC coming out of an LB going to earth. 352.44 I believe it is. Same inspector never mentioned it before on any of my previous jobs of the same type...

-- Joe


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