# Raising overhead joists in my garage. Is this a good idea?



## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi all. In my garage, the over head joists are really low. They are 2"x12"x20' and there are approximately 6 of them. The walls of my garage are standard 2x4 frames spaced 16" apart. The ends of the joists are nailed to the vertical 2x4s on the left and right walls. There is also approximately a 16" gap between the joists and the tops of the walls. What I'd like to do is remove each joist, one at a time, and raise them so they are flush with the top of the walls. Each joist is connected to a vertical 2x4 on the walls with 2 normal framing nails on each end. So what I'm thinking of doing is starting with the first joist, knock it out at each wall, raise it up flush with the top, nail it back in and then do the 2nd, 3rd, etc. If I do this one at a time, is this safe to do? Check out my attached picture and let me know what you think. Thanks!


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## Rory Read (Feb 9, 2010)

*unusual layout*

JP,

I haven't come across your "as is" lay out. Ceiling ties/joists typically sit on the top plate and flush to the rafters. Maybe someone wanted that space for added storage?

I don't know/see a reason not to proceed, but you might consider some beefier hardware. 2 framing nails seems a little underwhelming to carry a 20' member that typically sits on a plate. Maybe some bolts?

Good luck!


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

definitly more fasteners


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The bolts are only as good as the nails into the top of the studs through the plate. Could you post a picture? 

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi you guys. Thanks for your replies. I know what you mean about the joists sitting on top of the plates, but in my case, they don't. I think it's because of the way the roof was constructed. It's an X frame pattern where there is one primary peak, in the middle. I took a picture of one of joists where it attaches to the framing. You can see the gap between the joist and the top plate of the wall frame. I want to move it up, but after looking at it, I'm not sure if I even need them at all. If I take them down completely, will my walls cave in? See attached pic. Thanks!

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Do not take them down
You do need rafter ties between the walls to keep them from spreading out
This occurs slowly over time

Does that 2x under the rafter extend all the way to the bottom 2x plate ?
If so that is pretty good support

Do you have a wide pic of all the framing ?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

With a 20’ total span, the rafter ties (2x12’s) need *6 nails* each side for a *4/12* roof and a 30# snow load. That is nailing into the heel of the rafter or using a Simpson connector instead. The ties should be next to the rafters, not down the wall any. A *5/12 roof needs 5 nails* each side. http://www.engineersedge.com/civil_engineering/rafter-ceiing-connections.htm

The 2x4 rafters are over-spanned if D/F and no snow load = *8’11”* span max.

I would move them up and nail them to the rafters where they belong. They sure look to be 2x10’s….. 

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> With a 20’ total span, the rafter ties (2x12’s) need *6 nails* each side for a *4/12* roof and a 30# snow load. That is nailing into the heel of the rafter or using a Simpson connector instead. The ties should be next to the rafters, not down the wall any. A *5/12 roof needs 5 nails* each side. http://www.engineersedge.com/civil_engineering/rafter-ceiing-connections.htm
> 
> The 2x4 rafters are over-spanned if D/F and no snow load = *8’11”* span max.
> 
> ...


Ok Gary, thanks for your reply. When you say move them up and nail them to the rafters where they belong, do you mean set them on top of the top plate of the wall frame and nail them to the rafters? I'm assuming the rafters are the angled 2x4s directly under the roof. If this is the case, wouldn't I have to miter cut the ends of the 2x12s so they fit snug with the pitch of the roof? Should I also shoot a nail from underneath the top plate into the joist (2x12)? 

I looked at the simpson ties, but I'm not sure which ones to use. Can you send me a link of which one's I should use? Also, it is 20' across, the joists are 20' long, but I have a support mechanism in the middle that I'd like to take out (see attached pic). If they're 2x10s or 2x12s and are 20' long, they won't sag if I take out the middle support system will they? Thanks!


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Do not take them down
> You do need rafter ties between the walls to keep them from spreading out
> This occurs slowly over time
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply scuba. The height of the walls from the bottom plate (footer) to the underside of the top plate is 7'10". The 2xs underneath the joists do go all the way down to the footer (see attached pic). This is the best shot I could get considering I don't have electricity in the garage yet. Thanks!


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## HandyDave (Feb 16, 2010)

I hope you dont think im high jacking your thread, but can I ask what software progrram you used to draw the picture in your beginning post. I am a very visual person and would like to make similer drawings of my projects. Thanks... Happy Remodeling

Handy Dave


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

HandyDave said:


> I hope you dont think im high jacking your thread, but can I ask what software progrram you used to draw the picture in your beginning post. I am a very visual person and would like to make similer drawings of my projects. Thanks... Happy Remodeling
> 
> Handy Dave


Hi Handy Dave, no problem. I used a program called Adobe Illustrator to make that graphic. I'm a web designer for a living so I know how to use most of these relative applications. All the best.

JP


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## Rory Read (Feb 9, 2010)

*jack studs*

Scuba Dave noticed that you have jack studs under the ties. To me, that is a reasonable alternative to seating it on top of the plate.

If you move the ties, you should have longer jacks. In typical wall construction, a jack should run continuously from the member it is supporting all the way down to the bottom plate. If you don't want to rip those existing jacks out and choose to place a short piece on top, you should sister a new stud that runs plate to plate creating a sandwich for the ceiling tie. Use a lot of nails. I wouldn't worry about the bolts with that construction.

I personally would not rebuild the entire rafter system unless it was starting to fail.

I would not take out the center bearing wall if I was storing much of anything on top of the ties.

Cheers,


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Rory Read said:


> Scuba Dave noticed that you have jack studs under the ties. To me, that is a reasonable alternative to seating it on top of the plate.
> 
> If you move the ties, you should have longer jacks. In typical wall construction, a jack should run continuously from the member it is supporting all the way down to the bottom plate. If you don't want to rip those existing jacks out and choose to place a short piece on top, you should sister a new stud that runs plate to plate creating a sandwich for the ceiling tie. Use a lot of nails. I wouldn't worry about the bolts with that construction.
> 
> ...


Hi Rory, thanks for your reply. I understand putting a total height jack under the tie and if I leave them connected to the wall, that is exactly what I would do. Would it be possible to set a 2x10 or 2x12 tie on top of the top plate after it's already built? If so, how would I find the angle to miter cut the tie so it fits snug with the roof pitch next to the rafter? I definitely want to take out the middle support. To support this, after I moved the ties up, I would add additional 2x4 supports that connect to the ties and to the above rafters on the other end. Like a real truss. It's being used now for only a little bit of storage weight. Thanks!

JP


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## Rory Read (Feb 9, 2010)

JP,

I don't think you can put the ties on the plates now. The rafter size and pitch is going to require too much of the rafter to be cut away. It's the width of the wood sitting on the plate that counts, so, if there is only 6" left after that cut, it doesn't matter that it's 2x12 in the middle. It's all bearing on the portion that's a 2x6, and that's too small for the span.

If you play around with the span calculator at http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp, you will see that a 2x12 can handle that span as a ceiling joist with only minimal loads on top. You use that overhead space at your risk.

Joist to rafter framing will help support the roof. It is not intended to strengthen the load bearing capacity of the joists. I think you would need beams under the joists if you want to remove the center wall and use the joists for storage.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I would either raise them up so that the top of the joists hits the bottom of the top plates
OR
Possibly notch the beams & install them around the top plate?
Then install a new support stud underneath (crude drawing)

Seems like a lot of work for very little gain
But I know having headroom makes an area seem much bigger

Thoughts?


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

just push to bottom of top plates and be done with it and yes one at a time is fine with new jacks


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## Rory Read (Feb 9, 2010)

Scuba Dave,

I don't think I have ever seen that before.

I am not too sure you would still get to call that a 2x12 with the notch in middle though?

R


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You could notch the top 1/4 of depth - say ~2" to push the joist up further
That would give you a little more room


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Rory Read said:


> JP,
> 
> I don't think you can put the ties on the plates now. The rafter size and pitch is going to require too much of the rafter to be cut away. It's the width of the wood sitting on the plate that counts, so, if there is only 6" left after that cut, it doesn't matter that it's 2x12 in the middle. It's all bearing on the portion that's a 2x6, and that's too small for the span.
> 
> ...


Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I checked out the calculator, but there is some terminology in there that I don't understand. Nor do I know what species of wood it is, but it looks like cedar. It doesn't smell like it, but it's red in the middle. Can you tell by looking at the pictures? Also, what do you mean by putting beams under the joists? 

JP


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

tpolk said:


> just push to bottom of top plates and be done with it and yes one at a time is fine with new jacks


Thanks tpolk, but I also want to take out the middle support system. Would this change your last response? I want to maximize my overhead clearance, remove the middle support system, but still be able to use the overhead for storage.

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You need to measure the distance between the wall studs from the inner edges
That will tell us your span distance
If the existing joists are 2x10's you probably need 2x12's to span that distance & use the above area for storage


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You need to measure the distance between the wall studs from the inner edges
> That will tell us your span distance
> If the existing joists are 2x10's you probably need 2x12's to span that distance & use the above area for storage


I still don't see how just setting the joists on top of the top plate, notched or not, will not allow the walls to fall in/out. Would I have to nail from underneath the top plate into the joist? I like the notched idea though. 

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

When setting the joists on top they must be securely nailed to the top plates
With a 2x12 you could notch out ~3"


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> When setting the joists on top they must be securely nailed to the top plates
> With a 2x12 you could notch out ~3"


Sweet. Ok, so notch out a 3"x3" piece from the top end of the joist and lay it on top of the top plate. Then nail it from underneath the top plate and into the rafter it's up against. Do this for all of them and then remove the support system in the middle to open it up. How do you think this sounds? What else could I do to maximize the load capacity of the newly located joists without having to support it from underneath? Thanks!

JP


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

> What else could I do to maximize the load capacity of the newly located joists without having to support it from underneath?


Add more of them.
Add bracing/blocking between them.
Glue and nail a subfloor on it.
Ask an Engineer to inspect it.


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

jlhaslip said:


> Add more of them.
> Add bracing/blocking between them.
> Glue and nail a subfloor on it.
> Ask an Engineer to inspect it.


Beautiful! Thanks so much everyone for your help on this. I really appreciate it. I'll be sure to post the final product!

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

jpearson311 said:


> Sweet. Ok, so notch out a 3"x3" piece from the top end of the joist and lay it on top of the top plate. Then nail it from underneath the top plate and into the rafter it's up against.
> 
> JP


You will not be able to get a 2x12 on top of the wall top plates
Not enough room, you need 9" clearance on top of the wall to the rafters
With 2x4 rafters you will be lucky if you have 4"

Notching the 3" is with mounting them under the top plate & supporting them with a stud just like the old ones


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You will not be able to get a 2x12 on top of the wall top plates
> Not enough room, you need 9" clearance on top of the wall to the rafters
> With 2x4 rafters you will be lucky if you have 4"
> 
> Notching the 3" is with mounting them under the top plate & supporting them with a stud just like the old ones


Ok I see. Well, I guess that will have to do. It will at least give me another 20-24" of vertical clearance. Will this still allow me to remove the center support system? I don't even know how effective it is at this point. Is there anything else I can do do make it's support capacity just as strong as it is now without without having an obstruction in the middle? Thanks!

JP


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

if you remove 3" of wood on the end you are left with a structural 2x6 if those are 2x10. you could take precise dimensions of your span, roof material looks like 2x4 rafters, roof pitch and possibly take to a truss manufacturer and get a web design tying you roof framing to your ceiling joists so as to remove center wall. take along lots of pics


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

tpolk said:


> if you remove 3" of wood on the end you are left with a structural 2x6 if those are 2x10. you could take precise dimensions of your span, roof material looks like 2x4 rafters, roof pitch and possibly take to a truss manufacturer and get a web design tying you roof framing to your ceiling joists so as to remove center wall. take along lots of pics


Notching is allowed & meets code
In addition he (said) is going to support the joist underneath at the wall with a 2x all the way to the bottom plate


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

the wood you have left from my understanding at the bearing point is considered the strength of the member, otherwise he could set on top of the wall, cut the rake of the roof leaving around 5" of vertical wood on the plate and still call it a 2x10. imo i have never heard it to work like that, you stll have to have the full size of the member on bearing.


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok team, there has been a bump in the road. After a previous post that questioned whether or not my joists were 2x10s, which I just assumed they were, I decided to measure them when I got home from work. It turns out that they are 2x7_1/8"_. This is a very odd dimension, which I've never seen before. There are also only 4 of them. 

I also discovered that toward the middle of the roof, there are 3 2x4s connected to the rafters and the other ends connected to the joists (see attached pic). I'm assuming these are helping support the joists toward the middle of the garage. 

So with this being said should I:

1. Remove the 4 joists and replace them with 2x10s and add additional 2x10s where they are currently not and should be? And, leave the current "rafter-to-joist" 2x4s as is.

OR

2. Notch the current joists and try to find more 2x7_1/8"_ joists, notch them and hang?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Still need this info:



Scuba_Dave said:


> You need to measure the distance between the wall studs from the inner edges
> That will tell us your span distance


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Still need this info:



Thanks for responding so quickly scuba. The distance is 22.5".


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Look at *figure #6* here, a page or two more: http://books.google.com/books?id=iw...um=3#v=onepage&q=cutting floor joists&f=false

Cut the rake or slope on the top edge, with the bottom outside edge of the angle not below ½ of the joist thickness. Notch across level for the top plate width (3-3/4” or ?), then cut straight down along the inside of the wall vertically to the bottom of the joist. Install a hanger on it shimming the hanger for full support off the wall’s top plate. Bolt or strap the rafter to the joist (tie) using 1-1/2” nails so as not to split the rafter. The 2x8’s would not carry loads spanning 20’. You could replace them with 2x10’s, Doug/fir with fb of 1250 will carry 750# each. OR,* sister* a 20’ D/f - 2x8 for 912#.(Square cut the ends since the other one ties to the rafter or just strap it).

Use a Simpson hanger on the doubled joist, after figuring how much meat is below the notch: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/LUS-HUS.asp

Use some straps: LST 16: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/LTS-MTS-HTS.asp

Be safe, Gary


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Ouch.....22.5'

Just light storage above?
You basically have 2x8's right now
A #2 2x10 hem fir 16" OC 30/10 psf L360 will span 18' as a FLOOR joist
This means something that will be walked on & hold furniture...like a bedroom
L180/L240 (more flex) only gains you 6" more

L360 20/10 psf gets you to 20' 8"
L180/240 gets you to 21' 3"

Basically a 2x12 will span it without any real problem
A 2x10 will span it but may sag over time with heavy storage

I would install the new ones before removing the old ones


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Look at *figure #6* here, a page or two more: http://books.google.com/books?id=iw...um=3#v=onepage&q=cutting floor joists&f=false
> 
> Cut the rake or slope on the top edge, with the bottom outside edge of the angle not below ½ of the joist thickness. Notch across level for the top plate width (3-3/4” or ?), then cut straight down along the inside of the wall vertically to the bottom of the joist. Install a hanger on it shimming the hanger for full support off the wall’s top plate. Bolt or strap the rafter to the joist (tie) using 1-1/2” nails so as not to split the rafter. The 2x8’s would not carry loads spanning 20’. You could replace them with 2x10’s, Doug/fir with fb of 1250 will carry 750# each. OR,* sister* a 20’ D/f - 2x8 for 912#.(Square cut the ends since the other one ties to the rafter or just strap it).
> 
> ...


Ok Gary, I'm only following you a little here. I understand what you mean by cutting the slope/rake not below 1/2 of the height of the joist and the top cut of the joist to not be in further than the width of the top plate, but is this to mount on top of the top plate next to the rafter and nail into the rafter from the side? Or is to be set directly under the rafter and nailed/tied to it? Thanks.

JP


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Ouch.....22.5'
> 
> Just light storage above?
> You basically have 2x8's right now
> ...


Yes, this is only for light storage. I currently only have lumber up there. So how about I do 2x12x20s notched 3" from the top and 3-3/4" from the side so they fit flush up underneath the top plate? Do I need the 2xs that are hanging from the rafters to the current joists? I'm not planning using this for more than light storage, but I should be able to walk on it. I'm 230 lbs.

JP


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

jpearson311 said:


> Ok Gary, I'm only following you a little here. I understand what you mean by cutting the slope/rake not below 1/2 of the height of the joist and the top cut of the joist to not be in further than the width of the top plate, but is this to mount on top of the top plate next to the rafter and nail into the rafter from the side? Or is to be set directly under the rafter and nailed/tied to it? Thanks.
> 
> JP


Is the attached pic anywhere close Gary?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

OK, do your studs line up right under the rafters ?

So I'd run a ledger board perpindicular to the studs to support the new joists
Cut a MAX of 1/4 of the joist at an angle to fit against the roof decking
--as in your Figure B = 2.3" for a 2x10
You have 3.5" roof rafter, then 3" double top plates
A 2x10 should meaure ~9.25" - 6.5" = 2.75"
So the ledger would be ~1/2" below the top plates

By putting the new joist to one side of the roof rafter you can nail into the roof rafter


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> OK, do your studs line up right under the rafters ?
> 
> So I'd run a ledger board perpindicular to the studs to support the new joists
> Cut a MAX of 1/4 of the joist at an angle to fit against the roof decking
> ...


Thanks Scuba. The studs do line up directly underneath the rafters. However, the ledger board would run on the face of the studs correct? Making my wall protrude? If so, I'd rather do it the first way you suggested by notching the top corner of each joist and putting them snug under the top plate, then support them from underneath with a 2x sistered to the stud down to the bottom plate. 

I did notice another thing last night though. I'd like to put a joist at each rafter, but at one location, at the left and right windows, the vertical stud disappears (see attached pic). How do you suggest I work around this for this one single joist? Thanks!

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Properly nailed to the stud you will not need the stud below the new joist
Especially for light storage
Is there a header above the window?
If not the best solution might be a ledger across the window area & that joist will rest on the ledger


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Properly nailed to the stud you will not need the stud below the new joist
> Especially for light storage
> Is there a header above the window?
> If not the best solution might be a ledger across the window area & that joist will rest on the ledger


Wo, are you sure? Define properly nailed and what's the max load weight it could handle without the sistered 2xs? There is no header above the window. Should there be?

JP


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If the roof lands above that window there should be a header
How big is the window? A 2' window I wouldn't worry about it
But from your sketch it looks like it only cross 2 stud bays = ~32" wide?
That's not a huge span...but there should have been a header


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> If the roof lands above that window there shoul be a header
> How big is the window? A 2' window I wouldn't worry about it
> But from your sketch it looks like it only cross 2 stud bays = ~32" wide?
> That's not a huge span...but there should have been a header


Ok I see. I didn't measure it last night, but it doesn't seem to span wider than 1 stud bay (~22.5"). I'll put a header in there despite. Anything else I should worry about? Thanks!

JP


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

jpearson311 said:


> Ok I see. I didn't measure it last night, but it doesn't seem to span wider than 1 stud bay (~22.5"). I'll put a header in there despite. Anything else I should worry about? Thanks!
> 
> JP


I've been pricing out my new joists and the best prices I found were pine. Would this be an ok type of wood to use? Thanks!

JP


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

" Anything else I should worry about?" ----- YES, a lot of the information given.
I answered your question of post #39, right afterward. It was deleted after it was posted, I don't know why. Maybe it was the wrong answer... lol! Anyway, I picked "B" picture. 

Dave's drawing is what I was explaining, with a hanger instead of the ledger. The ledger wouldn't have the same nail shear to support the max. load. 

It won't work notching the top of the joist, supporting only the bottom extended leg at the stud. Here are some connections for the rafter/joist fastening: Plywood gusset: pp. 113- fig. 4-15
Different connectors: pp. 132- table 4-15
Lag screws: page 136, fig. "B". 
Yield failure for bolts: pp. 161- fig. 4-33
http://books.google.com/books?id=_C...esnum=10&ved=0CC4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Dave's span is figuring repetitive joists, *not individual*, with a floor load of 40# live load? You may want to consult a Structural Engineer for the connections, loads, supports, etc. for the liability you would have in the future after selling when someone else loads it up. 

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> " Anything else I should worry about?" ----- YES, a lot of the information given.
> I answered your question of post #39, right afterward. It was deleted after it was posted, I don't know why. Maybe it was the wrong answer... lol! Anyway, I picked "B" picture.
> 
> Dave's drawing is what I was explaining, with a hanger instead of the ledger. The ledger wouldn't have the same nail shear to support the max. load.
> ...


Ok, picture B in my picture and the picture that Dave posted are the same thing. With a slope cut in the joist and connected to the side of the rafter. If it's connected to the rafter from the side, how would I use a plywood gusset as in fig. 4-15 of p. 113 of the link that you sent me? I would assume that I could only use a plywood gusset if the joist was mounted directly flush underneath the rafter or? Keep in mind my rafters are only 2x4s. 

Also, for the hanger, wouldn't I have to sister another 2x4 into the wall stud so the hanger will fit on the wall? 

What I get from this is that the joist is connected to the side of the rafter via lag bolts and then connected to the wall via a hanger. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!

JP


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"I would assume that I could only use a plywood gusset if the joist was mounted directly flush underneath the rafter or?" ---- Correct, that is an alternative to do it. I was showing the different connections with the high nailing for shear, the sizing of bolts or lags for the strength the assembly needs to resist the forces pushing down and out. 

"Also, for the hanger, wouldn't I have to sister another 2x4 into the wall stud so the hanger will fit on the wall? " ------ At the inside wall line, vertically you have 4-1/4"- 4-1/2", plus the plates- 3-1/4" if older ones, which is 7.5"+-. With a rake cut to match the roof of 2", just snubbing the top off, for a 2x10 doubler, bolted through one only. The bolts are the ties, the hangers are supporting the double joists for storage. You can change the on center layout and the joist size along with the appropriate fasteners for the shear, laterally and dead load. 

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> "I would assume that I could only use a plywood gusset if the joist was mounted directly flush underneath the rafter or?" ---- Correct, that is an alternative to do it. I was showing the different connections with the high nailing for shear, the sizing of bolts or lags for the strength the assembly needs to resist the forces pushing down and out.
> 
> "Also, for the hanger, wouldn't I have to sister another 2x4 into the wall stud so the hanger will fit on the wall? " ------ At the inside wall line, vertically you have 4-1/4"- 4-1/2", plus the plates- 3-1/4" if older ones, which is 7.5"+-. With a rake cut to match the roof of 2", just snubbing the top off, for a 2x10 doubler, bolted through one only. The bolts are the ties, the hangers are supporting the double joists for storage. You can change the on center layout and the joist size along with the appropriate fasteners for the shear, laterally and dead load.
> 
> Be safe, Gary


Thanks GBR. I tested the way it's gonna sit last night with a piece of scrap 2x12. I looked at it sitting on the side of the rafter and directly underneath it. Let me ask you though, obviously setting it under the rafter it's gonna be lower, but both options increase the height significantly. I'm also planning on converting my garage from a 2 door to a one door. When I raise my rafters, they're going to be much higher than the header on my garage door. Does this matter? Thanks!

JP


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Just be able to use a standard 12" above garage door ceiling to fit a stock back-hang overhead track for the big door. I've built 12' ceilings with 7' high doors before, it looks a little odd, but more room for storage over the back of the car on suspended shelves. 

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Just be able to use a standard 12" above garage door ceiling to fit a stock back-hang overhead track for the big door. I've built 12' ceilings with 7' high doors before, it looks a little odd, but more room for storage over the back of the car on suspended shelves.
> 
> Be safe, Gary


Ok thanks for the info. My Dad just brought something to my attention. The type of roof that I have appears to be "pyramidal" (http://www.cmhpf.org/kids/Guideboox/RoofTypes.html). Scroll down to see on this page. There is a peak in the middle and 4 sides. The rafters on the north and south sides run parallel to the garage door and the east and west rafters run perpendicular. Does this matter at all when it comes to raising the joists?

JP


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes. A picture would be nice......

Be safe, Gary


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Yes. A picture would be nice......
> 
> Be safe, Gary


Here are some pics Gary. http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/2-door-garage-1-door-garage-64845/index2/. Down toward the bottom of the page.


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok team, I spent the weekend removing all of the old surface (wood) from the current joists. This revealed the poor construction of my garage door track in the middle of the garage. This is the left track as your facing the door from inside the garage.

If you wouldn't mind taking a look at the pics and letting me know how I could best get rid of the miscellaneous 2x4s and still be able to used my garage door before I put up the new joists, I'd appreciate it. I won't be able to hang the new joist for this section until I remove this stuff. Thanks!

JP


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Look at *figure #6* here, a page or two more: http://books.google.com/books?id=iw...um=3#v=onepage&q=cutting floor joists&f=false
> 
> Cut the rake or slope on the top edge, with the bottom outside edge of the angle not below ½ of the joist thickness. Notch across level for the top plate width (3-3/4” or ?), then cut straight down along the inside of the wall vertically to the bottom of the joist. Install a hanger on it shimming the hanger for full support off the wall’s top plate. Bolt or strap the rafter to the joist (tie) using 1-1/2” nails so as not to split the rafter. The 2x8’s would not carry loads spanning 20’. You could replace them with 2x10’s, Doug/fir with fb of 1250 will carry 750# each. OR,* sister* a 20’ D/f - 2x8 for 912#.(Square cut the ends since the other one ties to the rafter or just strap it).
> 
> ...


Hi Gary. I have one last question for you on this. My rafters sit right on top of each wall stud. I'm thinking that I'm going to have to sister another 2x4 to each wall stud where there is a rafter on top. I'm thinking I have to do this because of the hangers. I'm worried about them not fitting correctly. What do you think about this (see pic)? Thanks.

Jesse


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi guys. I know this is an old thread and I don't know if any of you will get this, but I'm running into an issue. Can anyone tell me if I need to worry about the garage door not opening correctly depending on how high the joists are raised? In other words, if the joists are too high, will the garage door hit the garage header at the door, or anything else for that matter? Thanks.

Jesse


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## jpearson311 (Dec 29, 2009)

For all of you out there that contributed to this thread, I completed raising my joists last weekend. There is still a long way to go, but check out the attached pic. Thanks again for all your help.

Jesse


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

So what did the Inspector say about the shear hangers, was he/she good with them?

Gary
P.S. sorry I missed your last question.....


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

^ I wonder if it would pass with the hangers shear strength along the grain. Downward hanger/nail pressure goes across the grain into/onto a horizontal member in most cases??


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