# Foundation of home was set too low



## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

I removed an above ground pool that was in a poor location, wedged up behind the attached garage and very close to the house which is clad in brick.

Subsequently, it has become apparent that there is negative slope toward the foundation. 

The quickest fix would be to simply raise up the low side with more soil and the planned install of patio stones, but unfortunately I cannot raise the grade on the house side where it is badly needed because the existing mess is already touching the bottom of the first course of bricks and anymore would cover up those weep holes. 

Im going to have to correct the slope with soil but I cant bring it all the way to the foundation so the plan is to have a series of french drains, berms, armour stone and river rock.

My question is : Can I pile river rock up against the side of the house ? The drainage holes in the bricks will be covered but wont stop drainage. Im worried about too much weight leaning on the house? 

Typically in the spring the sump pump triggers every few minutes but since Ive been shoveling the yard like a crazy person it has cut down on pumps very significantly.

I was very diligent to shovel storm after storm away from the area, so i was able to prevent a ton of melted snow from running straight into the basement but I have to correct this once and for all. 

Thank you for helping me figure this out.


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

In this photo. those bailing buckets were used to clear out puddles as the ground is frozen and will not absorb any melt....the water wants to run down the side of the house. 

the red represents where one french drain will be ....and to the right of the photo is a swale where the drainage will daylight.

The grey circles represent river rock . I will need a good 5-7 inches of soil to correct the grade and so that much rock as well


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I don't like your proposal, sorry, and the solution is going to be a major project. Either raise the house (not) or lower the surrounding property. Landscaping to lower the property is possible only if there is a low area to send the surface water. I'll get out of your way so others can approve your fix.

Bud


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Thank you for your reply Bud. Its hard to tell from the picture but that fence on the right is located right in a beautifully designed swale to take away all the melt from the drumlin and the field in behind the property, both of which are at a much higher elevation than my property.
It would be a death sentence I believe to lower the property any further....thegrade definitely needs to be higher at that side of the house

In fact any area that is visible without snow is sloping toward the house....that is why I removed all the snow to a point that the grade flows toward the swale...so the soil close to the house area needs to be as high as those old bricks in the ground


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

The view from the other side. The big pit with the lumber on the ground was the location of the old pool


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

I would not want anything piled up against the brick. Any french drain I would also want to install far away from the house to collect the water there before it flows next to the house (think a King's chamber is not built right next to the fortifying castle wall).

Where are you going to deposit your french drain - is there any place, even in front that is lower? From your pic I would put a swale where the brick path is now with a frenchie there. The ground from the house sloping down towards it. The question is where can it dump to naturally.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

How deep is your frost line.
If you test the soil to see if water will drain you may have an option for a very large drywell. 

You may be able to locate an overhead elevation view of your property and surrounding land. That would help with the planning.

Bud


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Thank you for your reply 3onthetree. Yes I agree a first french drain. From the last posted photo the 1st drain will start in front of the dirt mound at bottom of the picture and extend to the right in behind the house and to the left another 20 feet to the existing swale, so depositing and daylighting the pipe is a non issue

Its hard to tell from that picture but there is a definite severe grade issue toward the house. The area between the 1st proposed drain and the house will need attention. The slope is bad there and Im planning some patio stones there.


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Thanks for the idea Bud. Im sure that it would work in some applications but here the water table is already very high and the swale is literally designed to deal with all the run off I just need to get the grade going the opposite way while still protecting the bricks.

Im going to use large armour stone in there somewhere as well Bearing in mind that berms are useful too.

Im just worried about all that pressure from a few layers of river rock


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

(just kidding) I guess you are back to raising the house .
Don't you just love builders that dig themselves (and you) into a hole? By the way, I've seen a lot of homes built too low.

Good luck
Bud


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

It's not the pressure or weight from the rock, it's the accumulation of dirt and debris within the rock that will then be above your foundation, not to mention any brick weep holes or flashing doing their job.

I didn't follow the swale at the fence if all the surrounding is higher. So there is a really low (at least 10"-12") point by the fence? Slam dunk then. 

Berms are good for limiting the sheet flow of water (over ground), but you will still get underground flow running from the hills to the low areas. If you can get the grade sloped down next to the deck, I wouldn't bother with a french drain following your drawn-on red outline next to it, I'd keep it out between the a/c condenser and pool.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Rather looks like the brick weep holes are already underground.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Is this a rain problem year round or only when the ground is frozen?


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*'Melt from the drumlin and the field in behind' ??? 'DRUMLIN' ??? where are you or where's your house ??? there're many 100 & 200 yr old houses build w/brick foundations that're still standing so adding soils to promote proper drainage won't appreciably add to the foundation wall's lateral pressure.
you mention sump pump,,, is it in a basement OR in a slab-on-grade ?*


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

SPS-1 it does look like that but if I took a close up you would see an inch or two fall only. The mish mash of pavers and stepping bricks are actually in a their own little swale. 

So the pool came out last summer, then the deck was installed in a race against the fast approaching winter, which came early to Ontario this year. The pool removal changed the dynamics of everything. 
Neal: I cant really say for sure but yes until we go thru a rainy spring yet to come but Im going to say its much worse when the ground is frozen.


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Maybe this picture will provide a better visual .

From last year standing on the old deck which is the location of the new deck. The round pool in the foreground is out now and in the background Ive started to assemble the new pool. along the fence line to the right is the swale which runs into the front of the properties and into a ditch and away.
The higher field is in the background. I built up the property up along the back fence line to keep water flowing into the swales on either side of the house. It works well.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Allielump said:


> SPS-1 it does look like that but if I took a close up you would see an inch or two fall only. The mish mash of pavers and stepping bricks are actually in a their own little swale.
> 
> So the pool came out last summer, then the deck was installed in a race against the fast approaching winter, which came early to Ontario this year. The pool removal changed the dynamics of everything.
> Neal: I cant really say for sure but yes until we go thru a rainy spring yet to come but Im going to say its much worse when the ground is frozen.



You want to be careful, it can be costly fixing symptoms before understanding the real problem just adds to the expense.
If it just a result of frozen ground you do a side walk next to the house and a small wall and slope the land from there but if this is just a the first sign of a bigger problem that could be just a waste of money. 



It looks like there is concrete under the new deck? Any water in basement in that area?


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Yes Neal ..good eye. Its my first deck and probably to the shudder of many a tradesman here that deck is a floating deck No ledger board. No joist hanger. Just patio pavers sitting on a thick even level layer of limestone screenings. The frost has heaved it up a bit on that side but Im not even marginally concerned. It will rest properly when the frost is out.


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

no water up that way because Im diligent with snow removal and the ground under the deck is level. No negative slope


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Allielump said:


> no water up that way because Im diligent with snow removal and the ground under the deck is level. No negative slope


So, you do know that when you remove the snow you are changing the dynamics of the melt and what ground is frozen and what ground is not frozen.


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Sure the snow is thermal but at some point the temps rise and it will melt and make its way into the basement if left to melt


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Allielump said:


> Sure the snow is thermal but at some point the temps rise and it will melt and make its way into the basement if left to melt


 So you have had a leak when the snow was not removed?
Is the basement finished, insulated wall, or can you see where the water is coming in?


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

its a back split model with a full basement under the front of the house but inside that wall is the lower level family room, below it is a heated crawl space and above is the bedroom area. 

The sump system can handle the output, in fact it never even used to trigger the pump as the builder also installed a gravity fed outlet, but in the last few years the big melt triggers the pump frequently.

I can see this year where a tiny bit of water has seeped in ...but thats only because of my constant shoveling and bailing over flowing puddles. What Im saying is the pool stopped a lot of extra flow.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

There are few systems that should all work together to deal with water around a house.
1.exterior perimeter drain that should be taking water away from the footing.
2. damp proofing or water proofing that stops water from going thru the foundation wall.
3 permeable fill against the foundation that will transport water down to the drain.
4. landscaping sloped away from the house 

5. insulation on the inside of the foundation. 



Then we can look at what is wrong with each of those or could bee wrong. 



1.Perimeter drain 8 or 9 ft deep takes the water somewhere, most of the time. 

the drain could be plugged or a french drain that is below water table. This would show up close to the floor inside. 



2.Damp proofing failure working together with 3. clay soil that does not allow water to get to the drain. This would show up as a leak thru the wall


4. landscaping, already being discussed for possible fixes.


5. we insulate the basement wall to keep the heat in. we should be having enough insulation to keep the foundation at the same temperature as the the ground out side. 



So in a perfect system the water when warmer would find a sandy soil and find it's way to the drain and go away. 



When the ground freezes there would be no water near the house, but the sandy soil and the foundation would still be at the frozen ground temperatures. 



When you have melt the water will want to go to the sandy soil but the sand and soil is frozen and the water re freezes causing an ice dam causing the same effect as the clay soil. 

Damp proofing or water proofing usually stop about 8" below the wood in the house and water may be getting in above that. 



And all this is why I ask dumb questions.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Allielump said:


> The view from the other side. The big pit with the lumber on the ground was the location of the old pool


................


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*dampproof vs wtrproof*

*your code's probably the same as ours - dampproofing calls for 3mil asphaltic emulsion,,, wtrproofing is NOT in the bldg code*


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## Allielump (Jul 16, 2018)

Hopefully your drawing will work Neal .

Years ago and early in my ownership, there was a driving rain against that wall.
Subsequently I discovered a big puddle on the floor in the basement. 

The sill was in poor condition and I had a guy replace the door and re cement the sill. At that time he dug down and put a blueskin on the wall or maybe he black tarred it. 

Dont kill me for not remembering as I had not yet discovered that I love learning about and doing DIY.

Apparently the situation was like that for some time as the drywall and insulation on that wall were moldy and ruined. (Dont go blaming the agent as that would be me) Even agents and their inspectors cant see behind walls, plus I knew nothing about actual construction back then. 

Im studying to become an appraiser now so I will carry both titles and am super diligent when inspecting homes.

Anyway,,,I ripped it all out and sterilized the wall and reinstalled the insulation with some blue coated lumber, but not the drywall. Who needs drywall in a crawl storage space. 

The exterior drain system works well, it just really works hard at certain times of the year. As soon as I correct the grade where the old pool was Im expecting the pump to rarely trigger. 
This is all preventative maintenance and I thank everyones input very much

So far no one is too concerned about the lateral pressure from the rocks??


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