# T-1-11 siding bottom rot repair. Need advice



## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

There is some rotted t-1-11 on my mother's garage, It's all on the bottom 3" or so. Is there a small scale fix or should I cut horizontal and replace with a new t-1-11 strip or some type of 1x6 or other trim board with z flashing? Also it seems the last person installed a flashing on the bottom of one side, not even the whole side. Im thinking this is just holding moisture? Thanks.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

The only way to "fix" it is to remove it and reinstall a new sheet that isn't as close to the ground and has proper flashing on it. 

If you are okay with a slightly different look, you can install some PVC trim board on the bottom after you cut back the measured amount (i.e. 3.5" for some 1" by 4" PVC) and install a proper Z-bar flashing up behind the bottom edge of the T1-11 prior to the installation of the PVC trim board.

Only issue is that you have to do it all the way around to look right.


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## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

Windows on Wash said:


> The only way to "fix" it is to remove it and reinstall a new sheet that isn't as close to the ground and has proper flashing on it.
> 
> If you are okay with a slightly different look, you can install some PVC trim board on the bottom after you cut back the measured amount (i.e. 3.5" for some 1" by 4" PVC) and install a proper Z-bar flashing up behind the bottom edge of the T1-11 prior to the installation of the PVC trim board.
> 
> Only issue is that you have to do it all the way around to look right.


The whole bottom will need to be done for the most part, but I seen a video on YouTube where they cut horizontal and applied caulking in between the top piece and new bottom strip they repaired, is this not a good way?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

As a painter, I've had to repair that T-111 many times using different methods. WOW's way works well as you just have to cut off the rot and then apply a trim board. PVC is great because it won't rot and can touch the ground without wicking up moisture. Wood is ok too, but you will want some sort of barrier underneath it where it hits the ground or it will rot in short order.

You can do it as you are planning to do, but, you still have to deal with the moisture problem at the bottom and the repair piece(s) you put in will rot just like what's happening now. The PVC trim idea is best in my humble opinion.

And, to be perfectly honest, T-111 is fairly cheap, so, removing the whole sheet is a good option too. Then you can replace it with engineered T-111 OR Fiber Cement T-111 which can be painted and won't rot.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Shurley0714 said:


> The whole bottom will need to be done for the most part, but I seen a video on YouTube where they cut horizontal and applied caulking in between the top piece and new bottom strip they repaired, is this not a good way?


I wouldn't rely on caulking to keep it sealed! sooner or later the caulk will fail. Flashing is more/less maintenance free and works well.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Shurley0714 said:


> The whole bottom will need to be done for the most part, but I seen a video on YouTube where they cut horizontal and applied caulking in between the top piece and new bottom strip they repaired, is this not a good way?


That would only be a stop-gap solution and leave you with the siding still down to the grade, which is the cause of the rot in the first place. I had a similar problem with my shed and rimmed it with 2x8 PT capped with flashing then new siding. I've changed the grade but if the PT rots in my lifetime I can unscrew and replace it. Also, painting or staining the sides and edges of your wood siding, not just the face, will help extend its life.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would use flashing tucked up behind the house wrap but not shoved up tight the the bottom of the siding, prime and paint the fresh saw cut to. 
Buy material after cutting because you may find other problems with the framing and the best plans can be changed.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Nealtw said:


> I would use flashing tucked up behind the house wrap but not shoved up tight the the bottom of the siding, prime and paint the fresh saw cut to.
> Buy material after cutting because you may find other problems with the framing and the best plans can be changed.


Exactly what I encountered. I had to replace a bunch of studs that looked ok from the inside but were rotten on the siding side (no wrap or subwall - just siding on stud. It's been a PITA but easier and cheaper than tearing in all out, re-doing the pad, permits, yada, yada.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

lenaitch said:


> Exactly what I encountered. I had to replace a bunch of studs that looked ok from the inside but were rotten on the siding side (no wrap or subwall - just siding on stud. It's been a PITA but easier and cheaper than tearing in all out, re-doing the pad, permits, yada, yada.


We worked on a wall just above the roof of a church, inside the wall started 20 above stairs. to save the drywall inside we removed 4" of 2x6 studs and bottom plate and added new 2x4 bottom plate and new studs and saved the drywall inside.
The engineer had asked for the bottom 6" of sheeting replaced because it was swelled up.


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## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

Thank you all for the advice. Pvc trim and z flashing sounds good because of how it got rotten in the first place, if I do replace the whole t-1-11 panel though I will look into the ones that don't rot or install flashing under the new panel.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Note, too, you have 4" oc T1-11 and 8" oc wide RB&B simulated T1-11, so you have two animals to tame. I think the bottom trim board and z flashing will work just fine on both.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Shurley0714 said:


> Thank you all for the advice. Pvc trim and z flashing sounds good because of how it got rotten in the first place


If you do this you should add blocking in between the studs so the siding has full perimeter nailing. This is important for two reasons.

1) if the bottom of the siding is only secured with a nail at each stud then soon the siding will become wavy due to lack of support.

2) if the siding is also the sheathing on the wall you'll lose shear strength since the sheet is no longer connecting the top and bottom plates.


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## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> Shurley0714 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you all for the advice. Pvc trim and z flashing sounds good because of how it got rotten in the first place
> ...


Not really sure how to block in between studs for this? So you're saying go in the garage and place 2x4's horizontal all the way around where the bottom of the siding will be after I place the pvc lumber and flashing? If so how often should nailing be?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

If I understand the question correctly, the siding and bottom trim would have an additional nail or two into the blocking. Install the blocking after you cut the bottom of the T-111 but before you add the flashing and PVC trim.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Agree. Just cut 2x4's the width of your stud bays (usually 14 1/2"), and with the bottom portion of the siding off, insert the 2x4 up across the bottom of the dangling siding between bays and attach it with short decking screws, leaving half of it showing below the dangling siding. That way the top portion of the siding is supported across and the trim and bottom portion of new siding will be supported as well.


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## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

mark sr said:


> If I understand the question correctly, the siding and bottom trim would have an additional nail or two into the blocking. Install the blocking after you cut the bottom of the T-111 but before you add the flashing and PVC trim.





chandler48 said:


> Agree. Just cut 2x4's the width of your stud bays (usually 14 1/2"), and with the bottom portion of the siding off, insert the 2x4 up across the bottom of the dangling siding between bays and attach it with short decking screws, leaving half of it showing below the dangling siding. That way the top portion of the siding is supported across and the trim and bottom portion of new siding will be supported as well.


Ah I see. Would it be better to have the 4" side showing or the 2" side. I have access to the inside garage as it's unfinished also.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I always think more is better. You would stand them up but I would go more. like a 2x6 or 2x8 And I would do that first if the framing all looks solid from the inside. With the siding there it will make this easier to place. You can angle screw down from the top into the studs or thru the studs into the blocks, what ever it takes to make them solid in place.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

The thing I don’t like about flat blocking (the 2x turned on edge to maximize the available nailing surface) is when hand nailing the siding it’s easier than you'd think to 'knock the block out of position' which can create a few  moments (not so much of an issue when gun nailing though).

With the blocks turned on edge you have less of a nailing surface and need to be more accurate with the placement of the blocks but you end up with a much more solid nailing surface and "knocking the block out of position" is rare.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Putting the lumber on edge won't give you enough to tie all the siding, trim and siding together. You need the flat surface. I like to use screws to attach things like this, even if they are trim screws.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Just like a shower.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

chandler48 said:


> Putting the lumber on edge won't give you enough to tie all the siding, trim and siding together. You need the flat surface. I like to use screws to attach things like this, even if they are trim screws.


Screws won't save you from the the occasional "knocking the block out" when "hand nailing" the siding or trim. Need more nailing surface then dbl block.

I'm not here to debate. All I see is a first timer getting pissed off at the blocks. :wink2:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> Screws won't save you from the the occasional "knocking the block out" when "hand nailing" the siding or trim. Need more nailing surface then dbl block.
> 
> I'm not here to debate. All I see is a first timer getting pissed off at the blocks. :wink2:


I am not understannding a problem getting the block in solid.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Nealtw said:


> I am not understannding a problem getting the block in solid.


With a 2x flat block with perfectly placed fasteners you have less than 3/4" of meat resisting the force of someone trying to beat a nail into it with a hammer vs a block on edge with presumably 3-1/2" of meat resisting the force of the blows (Hammer not a nail gun). 

It's also very important to note that when nailing into a flat block you're nailing through multiple layers of growth rings which is WAY more resistant than the block on edge where the nail is being placed in between the rings (for the most part).

There is a HUGE difference in the potential outcome depending on if you're hand nailing vs gun nailing the material into a flat block.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :smile:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> With a 2x flat block with perfectly placed fasteners you have less than 3/4" of meat resisting the force of someone trying to beat a nail into it with a hammer vs a block on edge with presumably 3-1/2" of meat resisting the force of the blows (Hammer not a nail gun).
> 
> It's also very important to note that when nailing into a flat block your nailing through multiple layers of growth rings which is WAY more resistant than the block on edge where the nail is being placed in between the rings (for the most part).
> 
> ...


I have done things like this since long before we had guns or screw drivers.
I like your story, but I will stick to mine too.:biggrin2:


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Before screwdrivers..... Dang..... I think I'll crawl back into my box now. :vs_closedeyes:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> Before screwdrivers..... Dang..... I think I'll crawl back into my box now. :vs_closedeyes:


I have to screw some power into that sentence.:vs_cool:


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## Shurley0714 (Aug 24, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> Putting the lumber on edge won't give you enough to tie all the siding, trim and siding together. You need the flat surface. I like to use screws to attach things like this, even if they are trim screws.





Nealtw said:


> Just like a shower.


 Ok so I'll go in the garage after I cut the rot off and use a 2x4 with the 4 inch facing out so the screws don't have to go right on the edge. Sound about right? Thanks for the pic btw.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Shurley0714 said:


> Ok so I'll go in the garage after I cut the rot off and use a 2x4 with the 4 inch facing out so the screws don't have to go right on the edge. Sound about right? Thanks for the pic btw.


Depending on how much you are cutting off, you want that backing to be high enough to back the joint between old and new.


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