# Killing weeds in the grass



## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

Hello members, As you see in the pictures there are more weeds than grass. I want to kill the weeds and reseed it. 
I am planning to use the following concentrated Roundup to kill weeds. Is this the right product?

https://www.roundup.com/en-us/products/lawn-weeds-bugs/roundup-lawns2-concentrate


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> Hello members, As you see in the pictures there are more weeds than grass. I want to kill the weeds and reseed it.
> I am planning to use the following concentrated Roundup to kill weeds. Is this the right product?
> 
> https://www.roundup.com/en-us/products/lawn-weeds-bugs/roundup-lawns2-concentrate


Yeah, been there done that.

Remember that RU kills growing plants, but won't hit seeds.

So, I'd hit those expletives with RU then wait, then water and see if you get sprouts from seeds. Be patient. May take a while.

Where in LA County are you? I'm near Whittier.

Ask any and all questions, because we here are high on helping. :vs_cool:


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I would use broadleaf killer if you can buy it in the Kingdom of Kalifornia.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah, normal process is spray everything with Roundup, wait two weeks and then spray anything still alive a second time. Two more weeks and you can start the process to get ready for the seed.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

To late in the season to be doing this, it should have been done in late winter.
If you want to do something now get some Ortho Weed be Gone.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

If we still had killex/2,4-D I'd use that on a lawn like that. 
Since that's no longer available here, RoundUp/glyphosate (and re-seeding)
might be the way to go. 
Guess the iron based stuff works......sort of.......maybe just takes more
patience....


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

joecaption said:


> To late in the season to be doing this, it should have been done in late winter.


I'm not sure about LA climate, but probably you are right.

Possibly not too late for sod.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> Yeah, been there done that.
> 
> Remember that RU kills growing plants, but won't hit seeds.
> 
> ...


Hello Neighbour, I am just 20 miles away, Glendora. Thank you for your response. Appreciated.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

joecaption said:


> To late in the season to be doing this, it should have been done in late winter.
> If you want to do something now get some Ortho Weed be Gone.


Thank you for your response. Are you saying OrthoWeed is better at this time than roundup?


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@*cprao* , Happy Easter! Even if you're not observing (I'm not) the joy of the holiday is infectious and I hope you and yours are away from the horrors stalking us.

And happy Easter to @*CodeMatters* , @*SPS-1* , @*joecaption* , @*stick\shift* and @*Old Thomas* .


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> @*cprao* , Happy Easter! Even if you're not observing (I'm not) the joy of the holiday is infectious and I hope you and yours are away from the horrors stalking us.
> 
> And happy Easter to @*CodeMatters* , @*SPS-1* , @*joecaption* , @*stick\shift* and @*Old Thomas* .


Thank you and Happy Easter to everyone!


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

And now for the advice, warning, this might get a bit windy. I try to fully explain, instead of being too pithy. 
@cprao, looking at your pictures, there's a couple of different approaches you can take. I think the best thing is to find out in more detail what you're out to accomplish.

You've got all the old-buddy weeds that bedevil me at my place. I've got half an acre, so there's a bit of weeding.

I'm an attorney now, but I used to operate a garden shop and one of the things I did a lot of out in Moreno Valley was helping people start lawns, both sod and seed. And, I did a couple of my own from seed, one for me and another for a lady friend. ("If that's not love, what is?")

That fine-bladed grass in your pictures looks like Bermuda grass, which, properly used, is one of the toughest [expletive] grasses. It's tough as Marines and, well-treated, also just as invasive. It will be a nice green carpet, that grows right back from trampling feet, big dog traffic, etc. It also vigorously invades any area it hasn't already. 

But BG has a couple of problems, too: (a) it won't grow well in the shade, at all; and (b) it turns brown in the winter for dormancy.

So, my first big question is: do you want to keep the Bermuda Marines of Doom Grass? Or do you want something else?

DON'T get bluegrass; it's much too fussy for here, too hot in summer, way way too much water. If you don't want BG I recommend tall fescue, or, for a spreading lawn in the shade, St. Augustine Grass.

This is going to take some time, but I promise it will be time well spent if you want a nice lawn.

Even if you want the Bermuda grass, you might be better off nuking with Roundup and starting all over.

Tell me your plans, and I'll do all I can to help effectuate them.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Some further questions and thoughts: What's the situation? Are you going to sell the house? If not, do you have kids and/or big dogs? Are you seeking a manicured look, or just basic but neat?


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> Some further questions and thoughts: What's the situation? Are you going to sell the house? If not, do you have kids and/or big dogs? Are you seeking a manicured look, or just basic but neat?


Thank you for all those questions and its important to understand the intent and problem to provide an appropriate a solution. 

No, at this time there is no plan to sell. I have kids but grown-up and one dog, not big. 

My intent was to either Marathon II or St. Augustine Grass. I had Marathon II 10 years ago and due to lack of maintenance, the lawn has come to this kind of situation now. 

Please let me know your thoughts! Your opinion is appreciated.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@cprao

I'll give the low-down on M II and St. Aug.

M II is a non-spreading grass that stays green year round. Mow it high. It has problems with fungus in the summer, which can kill off spots in a newly-seeded lawn. Water it deeply but regularly. Not bothered too much by bugs. Stays where you plant it. Best in full sun for at least half a day. It was touted 30+ years ago as a low maintenance lawn. It isn't. It's better than Bluegrass and, in many ways, better than Bermuda grass. But it needs a lot of care to look good, too.


St. Aug is a spreading grass that can be started by "stolons" or sod. It spreads all over and invades flower beds, etc. It's bothered a lot by insects and fungus; it's definitely a high maintenance grass to keep looking good. If it dies back in a patch, that patch will fill in, often very fast, especially in the summer. St. Aug will take sun or shade; it'll even grow under avocado trees.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@cprao, to continue, I'd pick either St. Aug or M II, but not both. St. Aug will keep invading the M II over and over again. I knew a guy who did grow both for a while; he had a lawn that had some big trees on it. Eventually, he gave up on the St. Aug and put in a shade-loving groundcover.

In either case, the first step is:

Water and feed everything in the whole lawn you have now. Get one of those Miraclo Gro hose-end feeders and souse the whole thing, weeds and all, with the liquid plant food after a good watering. (Next few days would be good, since it's just rained a lot.)

WHAT? FERTILIZE THE WEEDS?

Yes (counterintuitive, ain't it?) The reason is that you'll be applying Roundup or other glyphosate preparation and it works best when the plants you want to kill are fat and happy and growing fast.

After a few days, you should see the difference. "Weed and feed" won't kill the Bermuda grass you want to kill, and it also feeds slowly. You want to pump them up to kill 'em. Weed and feed has 2/4/D as an active ingredient. For your plant genocide, you'll want glyphosate, found in Roundup, Kleenup, etc.

The other big issue you'll face is weed seeds. If weeds have grown there a while, you're going to have seeds awaiting their chance to pop. 

So, after the first kill, water the seemingly bare dirt, then hit with fertilizer again. You want the weed seeds to come up, and if they're there (and they almost always are) up they'll come en masse. When they do, hit them with RU again. Baby weeds die a lot faster than mommy and daddy ones do.

RACE AGAINST TIME

You want, if you can, to get your lawn ready to plant no later than mid-June if you want M II. The reason is that once June Gloom gives way to July Fry, it's going to be very hard to get seedling grass plants started. The problem is that in hot weather you'll have to keep the little plants moist, and the combination of heat and water will cause constant problems with fungus. M II gets it, but it's not too bad in mature grass plants; if their leaves are killed, they grow a new set. Baby grass plants just die and have to be re-seeded.

ON THE OTHER HAND

We might have a later-than-usual cool season this year. I wouldn't bank on that; but if it happens that will be very very much to the good.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Those weeds are short lived and will die shortly. I'd take plugs from the established grass to transplant rather than wasting time on seed that may or may not germinate and all that involved process, even though this is a perfect time to seed a warm season grass with a soil temperature of 60°F or above. 

Take a soil sample and check with your extension service for recommendations for fertilizer and water. If the present grass is Bermuda it can spread from plugs as much as 3/4" in 24 hours with the correct conditions so the density of plugs can be somewhat determined from that. By mid August you may be mowing every 5 days.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Those weeds are short lived and will die shortly. I'd take plugs from the established grass to transplant rather than wasting time on seed that may or may not germinate and all that involved process, even though this is a perfect time to seed a warm season grass with a soil temperature of 60°F or above.
> 
> Take a soil sample and check with your extension service for recommendations for fertilizer and water. If the present grass is Bermuda it can spread from plugs as much as 3/4" in 24 hours with the correct conditions so the density of plugs can be somewhat determined from that. By mid August you may be mowing every 5 days.


I wouldn't, given that he wants M II which is available from seed. He wants to get rid of the Bermuda. I'd agree if he wanted to keep it. Oh, yeah. BG is tough stuff. 

I've sprouted plenty of grass seed in my time. If I can do it, I know cprao can too.


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## gthomson (Nov 13, 2016)

If you have any thoughts of growing edibles in the area - fruit trees, herbs, etc... (herbs like oregano and lemon thyme can do well as low growing front yard bushes) - I'd be wary of spraying Roundup in those areas.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

gthomson said:


> If you have any thoughts of growing edibles in the area - fruit trees, herbs, etc... (herbs like oregano and lemon thyme can do well as low growing front yard bushes) - I'd be wary of spraying Roundup in those areas.


I would, too.

On the other hand, "mainline" farmers use tons of the stuff on their GMO crops.


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

Humans again on Round Up= Gylyphosate stop using the devil juice. 



It messes everything biologically wonderful about the soil. And if your one of those flat world douche bags that doesn't believe in science -GYphosate causes severe carcinogenic tumors in even controlled usage- its nasty- I have studied THE TOXIN extensively- (yes theres many things that do cause cancer since your in proposition 65 CA land where everything causes cancer- the total opposition of reality) 



Been answered a million times on how to remove weeds without chemicals; but you have over a million careless humans still using chemical weed processes because of vanity and under-educated.

As mentioned weeds are NOT a bad thing- it means your have life- replace it with other life more importantly with food shortage problems in our world and United states the #16 fattest country ->grow soME VEGETABLES! instead of grass. GROW HEMP or cannibas- your in CA!


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## vandamme (Aug 19, 2016)

I finally got my wife to stop using Roundup on the driveway weeds. We use regular vinegar with as much salt boiled into it as possible. Vinegar is cheap and non-poisonous and dissipates after a few rains. There's also a stronger variety made just for weedkilling but I can't find it so we get gallon jugs at Aldi. It makes the driveway smell like an Italian restaurant, instead of an oil refinery/toxic waste dump like Roundup.


The lawn is all "naturalized", with everything under the sun. But it's all green. We never water or fertilize it or put weedkiller on it. Slowly covering it with hazelnut trees, which are much more edible.


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

I started converting my front lawn with herb species- which is a zoysia lawn (empire cultivation) species ( less water- stays dormant longer, very tough and shuts down its stolons when water is not prevalent its a smarter species vs bahia, st.augustine (dumb species lol!!), and or Bermuda.
That said if there's any lawn areas that dont recover from drought or the winter ( I never water the lawn with the sprinkler water wasters), I replace them with an herb. My first herb of choice is rosemary, then lavender then lemon grass - if you want to keep the neighborhood kitty out of your yard they cant stand lemon grass and rosemary.
@ as Vandamme pointed out beside the great horticultural science it SMELLS NICE!
Plus if your not cooking with herbs while your just not cooking!


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> @cprao, to continue, I'd pick either St. Aug or M II, but not both. St. Aug will keep invading the M II over and over again. I knew a guy who did grow both for a while; he had a lawn that had some big trees on it. Eventually, he gave up on the St. Aug and put in a shade-loving groundcover.
> 
> In either case, the first step is:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the details. Sorry for the late response. I believe I got what you are saying.

If you don't mind, I will skip the first step and do the 2nd step - Roundup. The reason I am skipping the first step, due to the rain for the last week or so, I think the weeds have enough fertilizer. I will start with the 2nd step and repeat the same in two weeks.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> Thank you for the details. Sorry for the late response. I believe I got what you are saying.
> 
> If you don't mind, I will skip the first step and do the 2nd step - Roundup. The reason I am skipping the first step, due to the rain for the last week or so, I think the weeds have enough fertilizer. I will start with the 2nd step and repeat the same in two weeks.


Okay, go for it!

Keep us apprised! :vs_cool:


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> Okay, go for it!
> 
> Keep us apprised! :vs_cool:


Thank you. Applied roundup yesterday around Noontime. hoping to see a result in a week or so.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> Thank you. Applied roundup yesterday around Noontime. hoping to see a result in a week or so.


The weeds usually take about two weeks to die completely.

Be prepared for at least one more round. 

This sounds crazy but - water the "lawn" to get weed seeds to sprout to hit the babies with more RU. If you don't, you'll end up with more weeds in your new grass. If you really get a heavy sprout, consider a third go-round with the RU.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> The weeds usually take about two weeks to die completely.
> 
> Be prepared for at least one more round.
> 
> This sounds crazy but - water the "lawn" to get weed seeds to sprout to hit the babies with more RU. If you don't, you'll end up with more weeds in your new grass. If you really get a heavy sprout, consider a third go-round with the RU.


Sounds good. I will do that.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> Sounds good. I will do that.


And for good measure when the first batch of weeds starts to yellow and die, hit the soil with a good soak of Miracle Gro. Stimulate them into faster growth and faster death.

Kinda like Michael Coreleone killing that dude in the eatery in "The Godfather." 

:vs_cool:


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> And for good measure when the first batch of weeds starts to yellow and die, hit the soil with a good soak of Miracle Gro. Stimulate them into faster growth and faster death.
> 
> Kinda like Michael Coreleone killing that dude in the eatery in "The Godfather."
> 
> :vs_cool:


OK. Will do.. Thank you for your continued guidance.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Here’s what babies look like when they pop up after the first slaughter 

The good news is they croak fast; these were treated about three days ago


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> Here’s what babies look like when they pop up after the first slaughter
> 
> The good news is they croak fast; these were treated about three days ago


This is the current status. Almost 3 weeks. Watering more for the last few days to see the emergence of the new weeds. 

Does it make sense to add another round of roundup?


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> This is the current status. Almost 3 weeks. Watering more for the last few days to see the emergence of the new weeds.
> 
> Does it make sense to add another round of roundup?


To paraphrase Pat Benetar, "Hit it with your best shot!"

But, first, give it a good heavy drink of water, followed by some miracle grow or the like, and wait another week.

You want to push the seeds, if any, to sprout. Then hit it . . . .


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

DoomsDave said:


> To paraphrase Pat Benetar, "Hit it with your best shot!"
> 
> But, first, give it a good heavy drink of water, followed by some miracle grow or the like, and wait another week.
> 
> You want to push the seeds, if any, to sprout. Then hit it . . . .


Something like this?
https://www.miraclegro.com/sites/g/...iquafeed-Universal-Feeder-101910-Main-Xlg.png


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

I have been battling weed in grass for 45 years, and must admit that the weed won. 
I can't tell you how many times I've dug out entire lawns, prepared for new lawns, installed automatic sprinkler systems, installed sod and within a few years had what you have.
In my area, weed is 99% of ground coverings.
Our #1 reason: No rain. #2 reason: Grass is not native here. Weed is.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

cprao said:


> Something like this?
> https://www.miraclegro.com/sites/g/...iquafeed-Universal-Feeder-101910-Main-Xlg.png


tHAT WILL WORK ALONG WITH THE ONES YOU GET AT HOME DEPOT

USE REGULAR MIRACLE GRO


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

The situation is pretty much the same. I have not seen lot of weeds at this time. We are still debating on the type of grass. One comes to my mind which seems to be more weed resistant but takes time to grow is - Zoysia. What do you think about this?


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## gthomson (Nov 13, 2016)

You might also want to look at Kurapia. Lots of pros and cons to it.

I planted a few years ago as plugs - maybe 700sqft of it, and it's been a challenge with the weeds. But I think it's finally starting to win that war. The weeds seem to die out each year, and the Kurapia gets a little stronger each year.

One of the cons is that it gets lots of little white flowers, which attract bees. Not so great for areas with dogs and/or walking barefoot across it.

But you can also mow it on a regular basis to keep the flowers to a minimum, and then it starts to look more like regular grass.

I liked it because it's supposed to have deep roots. I'm in Riverside, Ca, so water restrictions are becoming the norm yearly. So I like that (I think) it will be a drought resistant type of 'grass' that stays green. Time will tell how well that plays out.

But, those deep roots can also be a major con if you ever want to get rid of it.

It's got its place in my world, but have to look at all the pros and cons to see if it fits into a specific place.

And for what it's worth, I do have a dog, and that grassy area is his space. So far, the flowers and resulting bees haven't been a problem. But as the Kurapia becomes more engrained, and more flowers happen to attract bees, I'm sure my mowing of it will also need to increase to take those tiny white flowers down.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

gthomson said:


> You might also want to look at Kurapia. Lots of pros and cons to it.
> 
> I planted a few years ago as plugs - maybe 700sqft of it, and it's been a challenge with the weeds. But I think it's finally starting to win that war. The weeds seem to die out each year, and the Kurapia gets a little stronger each year.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this new thought. I will consider this while evaluating other grass types.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

How do I fix this leak? It's a 3/4 inch tube and punctured. Should I able to find tube that is larger than this to insert a 3/4 inch tube in between?


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## gbenz (Jun 20, 2020)

I had Tifgreen 328 (bermuda) cut to 1/4 inch. 

Got tired of mowing every other day so I decided to slowly transition to a veggie garden using raised bed planters. I purposely neglected my lawn and allowed weeds to take over. I got tired of pulling weeds so I decided to try something new. I grabbed two tarps and used them to cover my lawn. The intention was to kill both my lawn and the weeds. 

Went to check on the covered sections after two weeks and to my surprise the bermuda grass was still there (not looking good) but all of the weeds were dead. The hot weather and the tarp killed the weeds in less than 2 weeks.


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## Kashanu (Dec 8, 2020)

Hey, how good is this weed control method? I need a really reliable way and yours seems like that. I used to grow cannabis, but I had to stop because he was literally drowning in weeds. It was also one of the main reasons why I gave up smoking marijuana and also switched to kratom. Now I even order kratom wholesale. Recently a friend of mine suggested starting over with cannabis cultivation, but the soil is completely unprepared for this. I don’t want to make an indoor farm, as many do, because then cannabis has a completely different taste, which I absolutely do not like. I hope the tips from this topic will help me!


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## Yard Coach (Oct 17, 2020)

Kashanu said:


> Hey, how good is this weed control method? I need a really reliable way and yours seems like that. I used to grow cannabis, but I had to stop because he was literally drowning in weeds. It was also one of the main reasons why I gave up smoking marijuana and also switched to kratom. Now I even order kratom wholesale. Recently a friend of mine suggested starting over with cannabis cultivation, but the soil is completely unprepared for this. I don’t want to make an indoor farm, as many do, because then cannabis has a completely different taste, which I absolutely do not like. I hope the tips from this topic will help me!


It's called solarazation. It does work well, except on rhizomic type of weeds and grasses. It will kill the green, but the roots will force new growth later. That's why Bermuda looked like crap then bounced back.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@cprao how about a progress report?


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## vandamme (Aug 19, 2016)

I've put old rugs over areas, and it takes months but kills down to bare soil. I use it on paths. I've gotten old commercial rubber mats too. I threw a clear car floor mat on the lawn to dry off after washing, and it killed the grass in a couple hours. But I have some old solar glazing and that didn't work because it had a 1/4 inch air channel which insulated ... I guess. So the secret is heat, darkness, or both. I've also used vinegar and/or salt solution on the driveway; cheaper and less toxic than Roundup. But you can't use it in the garden.


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## profitjudi (8 mo ago)

The flowering phase depends on the daylight hours. Buds form when it lasts less than 14 hours. Nitrogen fertilizers stop, start to apply potassium and phosphorus


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## profitjudi (8 mo ago)

Kashanu said:


> Hey, how good is this weed control method? I need a really reliable way and yours seems like that. I used to grow cannabis, but I had to stop because he was literally drowning in weeds. It was also one of the main reasons why I gave up smoking marijuana and also switched to kratom. I specialized in Home cones, so I can assume that it will be appropriate when purchasing cuttings. Recently a friend of mine suggested starting over with cannabis cultivation, but the soil is completely unprepared for this. I don’t want to make an indoor farm, as many do, because then cannabis has a completely different taste, which I absolutely do not like. I hope the tips from this topic will help me!





profitjudi said:


> The flowering phase depends on the daylight hours. Buds form when it lasts less than 14 hours. Nitrogen fertilizers stop, start to apply potassium and phosphorus


Watering and soil enrichment are suspended in late summer - two weeks before the ripening of seeds. The harvest is collected in the first half of September. From one meter you get 300-500 g of dried cones.


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