# New roof ripples



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

I had my roof replaced in June (very hot in Texas). The process was not very pleasant ... contractors not showing up, slow (2 and half days...normal roof). Anyway...now I see that there are ripples in the roof that looks terrible. :furious:

What causes this? Should I call the roofer about it?


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

wow you got screwed. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the sheathing. If i'm wrong someone will correct me.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree it's not the shingles it's the underlayment.
Could be a few different causes.
To thin a sheathing.
No spacing left for expansion.
Someone did not make sure the sheathing was in the middle of the rafter and may have missed them when nailing.
ECT.
May be able to figure out what's going on from the attic.
Did the roofer just replace the shingles, or redo the whole roof?
Yes it's common when it really hot to put off doing it when it's to hot or come in really early in the morning, leaving during the hottest part of the day and coming back later.
Step on a hot shingle and it can be destroyed, just trying to cut them when there hot is like trying to cut hot gooey tar.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

So, does this mean I should get the roof re-done?

They took all of the old roof off, down to the plywood.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Looks bad but I've never seen it cause an issue.
Not there to look it over but I see no way it's the roofers fault unless you paid for him to replace all the sheathing or he saw an issue while the roof was stripped and failed to mention it to you.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Not a shingle issue.

They are printing through based on what the decking and underlayment are laying down as.

Big thing standing out or as a red flag to me is venting. What is the venting like? Looks like a hop roof and therefore probably underdone.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I bet he meant Hip roof.


----------



## RVR (Mar 11, 2009)

Looks like its the sheathing due to the fact that the ripples look to be about 8 feet apart. 
If they used tar paper as an underlayment, and left it over night with out shingling it, that could be the cause as well.
Over night the paper will ripple with temperature change. They come in the morning, and shingle over the ripples, they will always show.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

If it was the sheathing, then wouldn't the original roof look like this? The original roof was smooth. So I am thinking the underlayment. I don't care for the looks of this and it may effect future sales prospects. This should be fixed by the roofer correct? It appears to be shoddy workmanship.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If you push down where it's humped up and it moves it would could be the tar paper.


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Check in the attic; OSB;http://osbguide.tecotested.com/pdfs/shingleridging.pdf


http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/wavy-roof-need-opinions-advice-130881/

Gary


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

1. Was the original roof removed?
2. What color was the original roof?

It looks like the sheathing was not properly spaced when it was installed.

I personally disagree with those that say its not the roofers fault if this was a tear off, because he (The roofer) should have let you know it was not spaced and let you know there was a problem before proceeding. The roofer can correct the problem by Kerf Cutting between sheets. Not fun, but it can be done.

Those of you who do commercial work know that it is the roofers responsibility to inspect the deck and let the CG know if the installation is not up to par. I have personally turned down a lot of metal decks that were not properly fastened to the Bar Joists.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

This roof was a total tear-off. The color and style of the shingles were like the original. Why wouldn't the original roof show ripples if the problem was with the sheathing???


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

The old roof probably did have the OSB ends showing, but it wasn't noticed.


----------



## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Someone already mentioned this, but get up there or from a ladder, push on the "bumps" and see if they give or if it's hard. If it's hard, it's most likely the sheathing. If you can press down on it, it's the felt paper or ice and water barrier that was run with lots of wrinkles. You can definitely tell when the paper is not run flat on 3 tab shingles. 

Regardless, you should definitely be calling back. When you pay for a roofing job, you pay to get it done correctly. Even if the old shingles did the same thing, the roofer should have noted that and fixed if for the new roof.

you might also consider the venting or lack thereof. If the vent in the picture is the only one, there could be a lot of heat causing the sheathing to buckle. Again, that should have been remedied by a roofer.


----------



## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

If the old roof was organic shingles and the new fiberglass that could explain it too.
Organic shingles were a lot stiffer, hid imperfections in the deck a little more. Fiberglass shingles show every bump, they're very soft.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

This is the reply I got from the roofer:

Hi. It looks like the rafters are visible. It's very common. The original builder used thin decking and ur rafters are 24 inches apart vs 16 inches so it sags a little. Nothing structurally wrong. Without replacing all the decking or adding more rafters, there's little to be done.

So why didn't the original roof look like this??? It is a rafter issue, then the original roof should sag too but it didn't


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

sadiejack said:


> This is the reply I got from the roofer:
> 
> Hi. It looks like the rafters are visible. It's very common. The original builder used thin decking and ur rafters are 24 inches apart vs 16 inches so it sags a little. Nothing structurally wrong. Without replacing all the decking or adding more rafters, there's little to be done.
> 
> So why didn't the original roof look like this??? It is a rafter issue, then the original roof should sag too but it didn't


Thats crap. If a roof is 24 inches on center. You won't have a ripple it will be like wavy. Its hard for me to put into words. It wouldn't look like this. Finally its the roofer RESPONSIBILITY to inform you if sheathing needs to be replaced. This guy is blowing smoke up your ass.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

Sorry, I am not a roofer, so I would like to get the terminology straight!! 

Sheathing is same as decking?
Underlayment is same as ??

Thanks

Yeah...I had a real hard time with this guy from the get-go. He was trying to get MORE $$ from the insurance company saying the appraised squares were off... so he ordered a Sky report(??) and the insurance company would not adjust the numbers. So he did the work anyway as a "favor" to me...

I had a bad feeling about him to begin with and how that has been borne out.

What is my recourse if he won't fix it?


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Ridging is often a problem when organic felt is used and it is allowed to get wet, especially if they use No. 30. (ASTM D-226 Type II) The thing that is strange about yours is the fact that the ridges appear to be right at 4 ft horizontally, and 8 ft. Vertically staggered. This would suggest sheathing that was not spaced to allow for expansion. Is it possible that the sheathing got wet, or even damp before they installed the underlayment? Did they tear off your roof and then tarp it overnight? This could have caused significant condensation under the tarp which wet the sheathing, leading to buckling.

Do you have good under deck ventilation in this roof assembly?


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

Yes, they torn off the roof and left it over 2 nights... it was dry weather though. I don't know anything about the venting. It was the builder's roof. House is 13 years old.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

It's not the rafters showing because the ridges does not go from the top to the bottom of the roof.
All this could be figure out in about an hour if someone just removed a few rows of shingles where it's humping and going in the attic to take a look.
Just standing on the ground and blowing smoke does nothing.
Only way the sheathing would be to thin is if someone used 3/8 or the rafters where more then 24" on center and they used 1/2.
If there 24" on center and 1/2 was used, it meets code in most areas so he had no obligation to mention it.


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

sadiejack said:


> Yes, they torn off the roof and left it over 2 nights... it was dry weather though. I don't know anything about the venting. It was the builder's roof. House is 13 years old.


Please elaborate. Did they tarp the roof? You dont mean to say that they removed the roof and left the sheathing bare do you?

Yes sheathing is a generic term. It can be tongue and groove boards, Plywood or Oriented Strand Board (OBS) In your case you most likely have 4 x 8 foot sheets of Plywood or OSB. If you go in the attic you should see a stamp on the back of each sheet. Photo one of these and post an image.


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Can you get into attic under this section and take some pics. Especially where you see sheathing meeting in-between the rafters.

Underlayment= felt or synthetic 

Sheathing=plywood or osb.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

I will try...

The roofer just came by (saw his truck out front) ... not sure if he got on the roof (did not hear anything) and he left. Was here about 5 min. Did not contact me or anything....


----------



## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Many prefab trusses are built 24" o.c. That does not explain it. As mentioned above if there was an issue noted by the roofer, it would be his job to inform you of it, so you at least had the opportunity to tell him "yes, I'd like to replace the sheathing" or "No thanks, I'm okay with it".


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

Just talked to the roofer. He stated that the decking was old (13 years) and walking on it may have made it more "indented". So he maintains that the roof replacement is sound and the problem is with the original roof


----------



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

call your contractor back ask him if you did that job for him if he would be satisfied.....he is suppose to know roofing what can and cannot be done and inform you of such even if it cost more....ben sr


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

sadiejack said:


> Just talked to the roofer. He stated that the decking was old (13 years) and walking on it may have made it more "indented". So he maintains that the roof replacement is sound and the problem is with the original roof



If this is the case. Tell him to get his but up in the attic with 24 inch 2x4 and get some support in those section to push it back up. Its still crap. When i had my roof done on house. They got the shingles off and said we have a problem. All sheathing needs to be replaced. I climb up on roof. Old 3/8 inch. I said re sheath whole roof with osb. Point be this. You should have been given the option.

Is a permit required in your town for a new roof. If yes. Get the building inspector to have a look.


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

sadiejack said:


> Just talked to the roofer. He stated that the decking was old (13 years) and walking on it may have made it more "indented". So he maintains that the roof replacement is sound and the problem is with the original roof


This is one of the dumbest excuses I have heard in years.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

747 said:


> If this is the case. Tell him to get his but up in the attic with 24 inch 2x4 and get some support in those section to push it back up. Its still crap. When i had my roof done on house. They got the shingles off and said we have a problem. All sheathing needs to be replaced. I climb up on roof. Old 3/8 inch. I said re sheath whole roof with osb. Point be this. You should have been given the option.
> 
> Is a permit required in your town for a new roof. If yes. Get the building inspector to have a look.


I hate to say it, but I am a single woman and he thought he could slide. I am also a very observant woman and I know when something is not right. I live in Dallas aand the old boy system is alive and well. Women do not get on the roof (although I would if he had asked)


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

jagans said:


> This is one of the dumbest excuses I have heard in years.



LOL!! I totally agree! :laughing:


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

sadiejack said:


> Just talked to the roofer. He stated that the decking was old (13 years) and walking on it may have made it more "indented". So he maintains that the roof replacement is sound and the problem is with the original roof


If that was true all roofs would look like that.


----------



## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

There are plenty of forums for legal advise. I agree with everything the members here have stated. I would guess you have no vents at the very bottom of your roof, under where the gutter would go(soffit venting) You have one very small shiny vent up at the top of the roof. The heat at the top of your roof is escaping through that shiny silver vent at the top of the roof, but being trapped at the bottom of your roof causing all the ripples. The problem being, as stated prior, not enough venting. If I was in your position have a different roofer come out and ask him to document what is happening in write and photo.


----------



## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

mj12 said:


> There are plenty of forums for legal advise. I agree with everything the members here have stated. I would guess you have no vents at the very bottom of your roof, under where the gutter would go(soffit venting) You have one very small shiny vent up at the top of the roof. The heat at the top of your roof is escaping through that shiny silver vent at the top of the roof, but being trapped at the bottom of your roof causing all the ripples. The problem being, as stated prior, not enough venting. If I was in your position have a different roofer come out and ask him to document what is happening in write and photo.


Adding vents wouldn't be too bad. I had to do this on a house where there was mold growing because moisture was trapped in the attic with no place to go or circulate.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

Thank you all for your valuable input. Just re-capping, it appears that this is the fault of the roofer and that he should fix the problem. Correct?


----------



## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

That sounds more like a legal question. A lawyer's first question would be let me see the contract. A judge is going to want something from a reputable roofer stating what is happening or has happened with the roof. Everyone here had a chance to give statements about your roof. We are in agreement that without being there on your roof. We are only speculating.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

In short, no. It doesn't show as much under thick dimensional shingles, but OSB shows under most every roof. 
There is a lot of speculation about why; super thin shingles, moisture escaping at the joints, swollen edges, the newer plastic felts, (they are tarps without gromments), etc. When the light is right, it can be seen on every roof that has osb to some degree or the other.


----------



## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Yeah, what "Tinner666" says!
We see what he describes all over the area.

All we use is plywood for roof sheathing.


----------



## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

I'll add my observations and guesses.
Each "ridge" looks to be the edges of a sheet of plywood/OSB. Using the shingles as a gage you can measure out the 4 x 8 sheets. Do we know what the sheathing is? Plywood or OSB? I am going to guess OSB as I have seen very few houses built with Plywood anymore. Next question is...What color was the last roof on the house? Was it a lighter color? Maybe architectural shingles? The reason I ask is they may have masked the problem before to the point you never noticed it. If the roof is OSB, and I suspect it is, if it got wet a couple of times during the original build the edges would have swelled up. This also could have been made worse if there was a heavy dew durring the nights that the roof was off. OSB does not like wet conditions at all.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know if it is OSB or plywood. The house was built in 2000 if that helps. I live in the Dallas area. The roof was builder's grade material. The new shingles are almost identical to the original in color (Weathered Gray). They are not architectual.

From the invoice - 

Tearoff
35.03 o/40.33 gb
new felt 30 lb
25 yr warranty
install osb decking 
new vent jacks

that is it


----------



## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

sadiejack said:


> I don't know if it is OSB or plywood. The house was built in 2000 if that helps. I live in the Dallas area. The roof was builder's grade material. The new shingles are almost identical to the original in color (Weathered Gray). They are not architectual.
> 
> From the invoice -
> 
> ...


 
I think we can assume its OSB. Looks terrible, i would be upset too. I would try to get the roofing company to fix it but i think this wont be solved by the two parties involved.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

AndyWRS said:


> I think we can assume its OSB. Looks terrible, i would be upset too. I would try to get the roofing company to fix it but i think this wont be solved by the two parties involved.



DUH! :blush:

After I posted that I realized that it was OSB not plywood. My bad. I have an attorney looking into this... maybe it will go into mediation


----------



## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Just thinking out loud here... If the contractor replaced the OSB sheathing he may have gotten into a bad batch from the supplier. If the yard he got it from left it out in the weather it would have soaked up water at the edges and swelled before he even got it.
HMMMMMMM...


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

He did not replace the OSB (even though it was on the estimate/invoice) and therein lies the issue...


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Your going to need to get another roofer to take a look. Then put something in writing it was negligence by the current roofer.


----------



## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

The way it is written in the "invoice" you typed could have been ment as a per sheet replacement cost to be determined after the roof was torn off. You state he didnt replace any, thats a problem. He appears to be billing you for work that wasn't done, or did he ask for extra $ to cover wood replacement? 

If he didnt ask for extra $ to cover hidden dryrot or termite damage then his invoice shouldnt reflect the OSB at all. I doute very much his contract says "includes all concealed dryrot or termite damage". If he did no wood replacement at all then i would be concerned that the typed invoive you posted ment he was to install all new OSB sheathing on the home and he did not. 

If you were due all new OSB the roofer has to make good on that, and that means he has to tear off the one he just put on to remedy the situation...then buy new materials and install it all on his dime.


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

Update - I contacted Angie's List regarding the whole matter. My roofer has a "Super Servicer" status (how he got this is a mystery) and my complaint with AL knocked him out of that status. They are going to mediate the issue. My roofer called me last night in tears (really) saying that my review of his service "killed him". He sounded very unstable. I actually felt sorry for him, however, he has to address the problem. I also informed AL that this guy hasn't had a permit since 2010 per the city I live in. That alone will diminish his standing. 

If he had done a better job and addressed my concerns in the first place, this would not have happened. He admitted that he "didn't listen to me".


----------



## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

sadiejack said:


> Update - I contacted Angie's List regarding the whole matter. My roofer has a "Super Servicer" status (how he got this is a mystery) and my complaint with AL knocked him out of that status. They are going to mediate the issue. My roofer called me last night in tears (really) saying that my review of his service "killed him". He sounded very unstable. I actually felt sorry for him, however, he has to address the problem. I also informed AL that this guy hasn't had a permit since 2010 per the city I live in. That alone will diminish his standing.
> 
> If he had done a better job and addressed my concerns in the first place, this would not have happened. He admitted that he "didn't listen to me".


Thats kicking his ass:laughing:


----------



## sadiejack (Oct 26, 2013)

747 said:


> Thats kicking his ass:laughing:


:laughing: I know.... I am a hard ass aren't I??


----------



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

sadiejack said:


> :laughing: I know.... I am a hard ass aren't I??


..he got just what he ask for by not addressing your concerns and issues on a professional level that is required by all contractors...he must have forgotten who the boss was on that job as well as all other jobs..."the customer" hope you get it resolved...ben sr


----------



## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

What is his side of the story?


----------

