# concrete front entry refinish



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

hope this is the right section of the forum!
I've got a concrete pad in front of my front door and it sure is UGLY
any ideas as to how to make it look better? maybe some sort of epoxy or a skim coat of cement? I've tried indoor/outdoor carpet (which is on there now...UGLY!) and will be blasting that stuff away with a power-washer.(bought it at HD...their carpet isn't too good ,at least their I/O...bought some high quality indoor/out about 15 years ago and it's still going strong in back of the house)

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

there're several products avail to you but NOT at any apron store EVEN IF THE BAG SAYS RESURFACING :no: elitecrete & concrete network are 2 sources.

we don't use epoxies for external use,,, you'll also need an angle grinder & diamond turbo cup wheel :yes:


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

here's some pix. see how UGLY it is? how about some sort of tile?

tnx,


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Was there ever a post in the outside corner?
Seems like there was with a downspout?


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

piece of cake :yes: these were worse,,, installing tile's not a good idea as wtr'll eventually enter the grout, freeze, & pop off the tiles,,, back where you started, eh ? ? ? bear in mind we do this for a living BUT you could come close :thumbup:


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Was there ever a post in the outside corner?
> Seems like there was with a downspout?


yeah Scube, there WAS a post there (all rotted etc) which will be replaced before the tile goes on.

tnx,


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

welll,tile is out! my wife got spooked by the tiles popping out because water seeped in and froze.
going to have to be either the entire slab replaced or re-surfacing.

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

it happens even down here in ga :yes: btw, resurfacing's much less than new


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

itsreallyconc said:


> it happens even down here in ga :yes: btw, resurfacing's much less than new


do you think resurfacing is ok? is there a possibility that water will somehow get under the new surface and freeze? THAT could be a mess!

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

of course i do,,, those post'd pics were of jobs that were worse than yours,,, all have been down over 5yrs in freeze-thaw climes,,, properly installed, there's no chance of wtr infiltration as the o'lay mtl bonds molucularly to the properly prepp'd original conc surface,,, here's another.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well, I got an estimate for "capping" the slab with 2.5 in. of concrete and it's a whole lot more desirable than getting the slab replaced. (less costly) the guy that gave me the estimate says the existing slab is in good shape so pulling it out would be "overkill". my wife isn't all that interested in resurfacing with some sort of design since all the other houses around have a plain concrete slab in front of the front door. more estimates on the way!

tnx,


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

They can also stamp a pattern into the concrete
And or add color
Might want to see how much that adds


----------



## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

There is a guy on a couple of the Holmes on Homes episodes that does this kind of work. It turns out looking beautiful.

What kind of company do you call to find out about having cement steps finished like that? 

There is a company in Canada that sells products in the U.S. for this kind of work. I called them and they sent me a DVD giving exact directions on how to use their coatings. I haven't watched it yet. Here is a link to their website: 

http://www.daichcoatings.com/


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well, Scuba,that's nice,I mean REAL nice. my wife agrees too!:thumbsup:
the only question is, can we get it done at a reasonable cost. I don't think the guy who came today could do it. probably end up with a plain slab.

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

2 1/2" cap's really much more'n necessary but could be accomplished by either a bond'd OR unbond'd overlay ( cap ),,, none of the pics i post'd were thicker than 1/8",,, even installing a thin-stamp'd overlay's only 3/8" max,,, to my knowledge, daich is a reseller, not a manufacturer,,, google ' elitecrete ' for the largest manufactureing & dedicated distribution network - even in canada.

if you saw the diy tv segment on the back porch/patio o'lay, it was rod johnson & elitecrete along w/the show's 2 reg hosts.

if


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

itsreallyconc said:


> 2 1/2" cap's really much more'n necessary but could be accomplished by either a bond'd OR unbond'd overlay ( cap ),,, none of the pics i post'd were thicker than 1/8",,, even installing a thin-stamp'd overlay's only 3/8" max,,, to my knowledge, daich is a reseller, not a manufacturer,,, google ' elitecrete ' for the largest manufactureing & dedicated distribution network - even in canada.
> 
> if you saw the diy tv segment on the back porch/patio o'lay, it was rod johnson & elitecrete along w/the show's 2 reg hosts.
> 
> if


hmmmm...the question NOW is: exactly WHAT material is being used for the overlay? certainly not plain old concrete (right?) I mean, most aggregate is more tham 1/8 in. in dia, isn't it?

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

portland cement concrete = portland cement, fine aggregate ( usually sands ), large aggregate ( usually crush'd stone ), & water,,, polymer modified concrete = white cement, fine aggregate ( in our case, 7 diff shapes & sizes of silicone carbide ) hybrid co-polymers, & water,,, your ' plain old concrete ' is usually 2,500psi - 4,000psi while ours is 5,600psi.

then there's epoxy concrete, asphalt cement concrete, etc :laughing: the choices do boggle us sometimes


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well, the guy who just came over to give me an estimate, Colorado Flatwork, says the slab has to be removed, a new one poured and then it can be "stamped" with a "tile like" design. this is because they won't do overlays, claims they can't guarantee the bond.

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

maybe they can't/won't so call someone else who specializes in bonded overlays,,, they'll guarantee their work,,, evidently this guy hasn't used better materials,,, if our clients maintain the sealer every 2 yrs, we guarantee it for 10yrs :thumbup:


----------



## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Boy, that sure is overkill....Remove a slab in order to stamp it? All that needs doing is first understand the nature of the surface and then affect that, so that the overlay bonds. Not complicated...certainly no different than dealing with the new slab - but far less costly.

:wink:


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

frenchy's right :yes: a good comparison'd be replacing the house 'cause the roof's in bad condition :laughing: & you need to have the roof truss's upgrad'd


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well,it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to have the slab removed and re-poured. nnobody seems to want to do an overlay. they either won't return the calls for an estimate or like the guy I talked to this morning,whose website was real encouraging, the job is too small and they'd have to charge me some outrageous "minimum". O'Bama must be right,"the economy isn't that bad" wish some of you guys lived out here so I could get this done!

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

our minimum's $ 1,750 unless the client has a young child for lease :laughing:


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

itsreallyconc said:


> our minimum's $ 1,750 unless the client has a young child for lease :laughing:


"conc", that minimum is as outrageous as the one quoted by the guy I mentioned. you two must work for the same outfit.
tarring and feathering is too good for rapacious concrete contractors, the "rack" is much more appropriate!
and what's the stuff about the "young child"? you can get 15-25 for such things in colo.


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

my minimum includes 3 trips,,, generally speaking, artists starve & good artisans eat well & drive new pickups :laughing: voting w/your wallet's time honored & i do it all the time EXCEPT when i want someone's work - then i pay their price,,, generally you can expect to pay day rate, materials, frt, sales tax, equipment, travel, yada,yada, yada same's any other biz,,, you can also expect the markup's 40% - $700 for 3 days isn't outrageous in my view :thumbup:  this won't surprise you - i've got competitors who'd charge $ 900 - $ 1,200 for the same work,,, i know this because our clients have told us so when we repair it :yes: some who we quoted originally so they've had to pay TWICE - another vote w/their wallet, eh ? ? ? pay what you want but remember you'll have to look at it for years,,, if i thought you'd have misgivings, we'd decline the work & have many times,,, no hard feelings - its just business, not personal,,, after 37yrs of placing/paving/repairing/enhancing concrete, i don't need anyone to complain so its just better if we part company while still speaking cordially, right ?

forgot you were in colorado,,, was thinking vt where's the sentences're MUCH less OR non-existent at times


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

got a bunch of estimates and they're all pretty high for something in my estimation is a small job (55 sq. ft.) so my wife and I will DIY with those Daitch products. doesn't look too hard. (got a dvd) like I told the wife,"it can't look worse than it already does" 
anyway, I plan on using "Planipatch" to repair the surface of the concrete but first, I have to remove some old i/o carpet adhesive. this stuff is really on there. even a power-washer won't budge it. any ideas how to remove it? muriatic acid? 

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*you'll find that answer in the 1st response posted on this thread.*


----------



## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm anxious to see how your cement turns out with the Daich. The cement leading to my front door is pitted and chipped away too. So I was thinking about using it too.


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

from my read ' of ' daich ', its a private-label'd product by who knows,,, from my knowledge of the industry/trade/craft/materials, generally no pro's ( but possibly some in their local area ) are using it,,, if you're bound to diy, i'd suggest a local const or pool supply house if only because you'd have recourse & support in person  most, including the big 'uns, have customer svce phones mann'd by tom, dick, & larry who might've just been fired from an apron store,,, the 1-time user/customer's always at the btm of the pile - just think about it !

good luck !


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

from my experience using daich coatings it goes on easily, and ends up as sort of like rhino-liner for yer truck. 
what i did years ago still looks like the day i did it.

DM


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

DangerMouse said:


> from my experience using daich coatings it goes on easily, and ends up as sort of like rhino-liner for yer truck.
> what i did years ago still looks like the day i did it.
> DM


Daitch appears to be a reputable company. they seem to be concerned that their products are used correctly and your project turn out well so they had a dvd made. not too many companies do that,usually you've got the instructions on the can and that's it!

tnx,


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

DangerMouse said:


> from my experience using daich coatings it goes on easily, and ends up as sort of like rhino-liner for yer truck.
> what i did years ago still looks like the day i did it.
> 
> DM


DM................... !!!


----------



## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Analogmusicman, how are you going to fix your cement where it's chipped on the flat surface and on the edges before applying the Daich?

Is it even necessary to make repairs or does the Daich fill in the imperfections? I didn't see anything about it in the video.


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

sorry, no pics of the bathroom backsplash, but last i saw it, it looked fine.
but here's a pic of the horsehead vase i used the last of the stuff on so's not to waste it.
the vase had some bad chips. i repaired the chips and coated this 15 or so years ago. it sealed and hid all the cracks and chips well.

DM


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

gma2rjc said:


> Analogmusicman, how are you going to fix your cement where it's chipped on the flat surface and on the edges before applying the Daich?
> 
> Is it even necessary to make repairs or does the Daich fill in the imperfections? I didn't see anything about it in the video.


 
I'm going to use "Planipatch" to fill the holes and cracks and fix the edges after I clean off the old carpet cement. the video I got says that surface prep is important and the surface should be good. I don't think the product will fill the holes and cracks.

tnx,


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

it hides small things very well, but surface prep for walking on it is very important. so it sounds like you're on the right track.
have you figured out how to get the old carpet goop off yet?

DM


----------



## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Dave, if you go on daich.com you'll see pictures of what the stuff looks like.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

from what I can see on the web,removing old carpet cement is kinda like pulling teeth.

tnx,


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

well, try a hammer and chisel? you can always patch the chipped cement! lol

DM


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

speaking of pulling teeth, you're like a horse,,, 2x i've led you to the water & both times you refuse to drink :no:

' remove some old i/o carpet adhesive ',,, get a f'n grinder & diamond turbo cup wheel,,, we do this for a living,,, pressure wash AFTER the adhesive's gone while you're adjusting the conc's pH for the o'lay,,, if you still wanna f around w/those who got lucky & had jobs turn out well, fine - we can't take those chances,,, btw, any & EVERYONE ( including their brothers ) has dvd's,,, not a wk goes by we don't get 1 or 2 in the mail so that's point's irrelevant & false,,, done w/this thread ! ! !

ps - mouse - nice post,,, doesn't look like conc at all :thumbup: the horse sucks, tho :laughing:


----------



## comp (Jan 14, 2008)

horse :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

probably good it doesn't look like concrete since the label said GRANITE look! 
and i'll be sure to tell the wife you liked her horse.

DM


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

hey "conc",you actually have any REPEAT business?:laughing:

tnx,


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

ok,it's been since last summer and it's finally time to get that concrete slab re-finished. (did I say it's U-G-L-Y?) will go with that Daitch stuff, looks good and is affordable. (got their dvd too)
plenty of old adhesive on the slab from the old i/o carpet. got some real strong adhesive remover from Lowe's which has removed quite a bit of the adhesive but not all. will use my angle grinder with diamond wheel to grind off the rest of it.
question: before I put on Daitch's primer,how much more surface prep is needed? I mean,should I go over the whole slab with the diamond wheel including where I patch with the concrete patch mix I got from HD? I understand surface prep is the key to a good job. (don't want to be redoing this EVER!)

just as a BTW: Lowe's sells polymer "porch posts" at a decent price. a new one will go on before the coating goes on. heard too many negative things about replacing it with a wooden post.

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

if we have to to remove anything, its always mechanically w/grinders/scarifiers/scabblers,,, wouldn't think of using any ' adhesive removers ' - don't know about daitch - never used it nor ANYTHING that needs ' primer. ' ( which's just an acrylic milk )

it certainly can't hurt to grind the complete deck - what're you going to do w/a 1/2 used wheel, anyway ? btw, make sure you have good kneepads.

many material suppliers for this trade require training albeit its basic & best serves to initiate a good working relationship 'tween distributor & artisan,,, 1 thing we do learn is there's little avail from an apron store other'n brooms, gloves, & rolls of 6mil plastic,,, the other's not to use adhesive remover & expect the job to last,,, we don't learn from cd's, w-sites, diy forums, pamphlets, or brochures,,, you can get away w/your method 'cause its yours - we can't 'cause its theirs & we guarantee our work,,, best of luck !


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

wondering because I've got more concrete to re-finish: 
if you've got a concrete slab that DOESN'T have old adhesive on it that's got to be removed,should you still go over it with an angle grinder with turbo wheel? the reason I ask is because I read somewhere about the surface of concrete and how the new surface covering (paint or whatever) might not adhere too well unless the surface is made porous. (this guy was talking about putting water on the concrete and watching to see if it soaks in) I wonder if this might have been the problem with the paint on my garage floor coming up. (I was told the "hot tire syndrome" did that but this was paint that was made for garage floors)

BTW: should you power wash AFTER the surface is completely done?

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

most product failures are due to improper/incomplete prep,,, w/our products, we pickle the slab 1st w/10% muriatic cut 1acid:8 wtr then neutrailze w/ammonia:wtr 1:8,,, paint never adheres to conc no matter what.

we always power wash after w/4,000psi 4gpm w/turbo nozzle

obviously we vary the prep IF we're going to use dec conc acid-stains

the garage coating's failure was, more'n likely, due to improper/incomplete prep & h/o quality mtl purchased from an apron store no matter the name on the label,,, done right, good mtls do NOT experience hot-tire pickup or, at least, we've never experienced it,,, probably unlikely you protected the epoxy w/urethane topcoat, either,,, apron stores're like labor unions - the lowest common denominator rules all 

apron stores are like labor unions


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

so, SHOULD you go over a concrete slab that has no adhesive with a diamond wheel? I understand that muriatic acid is nasty stuff so I guess what you're saying is that the muriatic acid bath sort of does the same thing as the diamond blade.? (the muriatic acid gets the surface porous? the diamond blade does that too?)

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

we don't grind UNLESS there're boogers, etc, that must be removed,,, the apron store muriatic's not bad at all as its only 10% solution out of the store,,, cutting it 1:8 further reduces its strength,,, i don't think both're the same as ea has its individual goal.

w/our eliteCrete mtl, we're not only cleaning the existing conc but adjusting the pH so our 1st coat penetrates the slab & bonds mechanically AND chemically,,, the acrylic-bas'd mtls req a ' bonder ' such as your stuff to my knowledge,,, you're asking me things of which i'm ignorant as, in 38 yrs, never used a ' bonder ',,, doesn't your source have any customer service people ?


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

ya know Conc,I have NEVER asked you a question directly! in case you haven't noticed, there ARE other people on this group that can answer my questions. I was hoping someone,not necessarily you,would know the answer.

tnx,


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

didn't realize i was annoying you but, then, why enter a dialog ? either no one else knows as much, cares to answer, or neither does your ' customer no-svce rep ' have the answers,,, enjoy your work - i won't bother you anymore ! ! !


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

my "assistant" and I finally finished (been nearly a year). a few pix of the finished product:


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

That looks great!!! 
What did you use ? The Daitch ?

I have a pool deck I have been thinking of recoating somehow


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> That looks great!!!
> What did you use ? The Daitch ?
> 
> I have a pool deck I have been thinking of recoating somehow


yes,I used the Daich products. not exactly cheap but then again, you don't want cheap stuff if you want it to look good and last.
(the Spreadstone is $55/gal and a gallon doesn't go too far cause it's the consistency of a McDonald's milkshake)

you'll want to start by getting their dvd.

tnx,


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I'll have to figure out how much I'll need
Its 16x32 pool with a 6' cement deck around it
So about 720 square feet to do

Its a project for next year at the earliest
Maybe I'll check back next year & see how yours is holding up

But that does look nice :thumbsup:


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

nice work - hope it wears well for you,,, we estimate mtl cost at about $1.00 to $ 1.50 per sq ft incl sealer.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well Scube, my cement slab is only about 66 sq. ft. and it took 2 gal. of "Spreadstone" to cover it (it's so thick,you apply it with a trowel) so doing the math, you'd be looking at something over 1K in Spreadstone alone. Daich has a product called "Rollerock" which goes on with a roller ,looks good and would be more economical. (besides being a heck of alot easier on your back )

tnx,


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Ok, Thanks
I do remember looking at their different products a while back


----------



## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Hey Musicman, 

How's it holding up? It looks pretty good from the pictures. I'm thinking of doing something similar. I have an inground pool with a large irregular shapped patio that's not looking so hot these days. I'd like to jazz it up but the cost of pavers or stamped concrete is too high. I was looking at this as a cheaper alternative. Thanks, 

Kevin


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

Ler0y Jenkins said:


> Hey Musicman,
> 
> How's it holding up? It looks pretty good from the pictures. I'm thinking of doing something similar. I have an inground pool with a large irregular shapped patio that's not looking so hot these days. I'd like to jazz it up but the cost of pavers or stamped concrete is too high. I was looking at this as a cheaper alternative. Thanks,
> 
> Kevin


so far it's holding up fine. I'd stress that you MUST prep. well. I used an angle grinder with a "diamond wheel" to get the surface ready. LOTS of dust! (you wouldn't believe how much dust. tell your neighbor downwind to close his windows:thumbsup I didn't prep. my front walk well and paid for it: the "Daitch" product peeled right up. this is not too big of a deal since that walk will be replaced along with my driveway.

tnx,


----------

