# How To Build A Laminate Countertop



## r0ckstarr

I'm planning to do this in April. I have been reading as much as possible, and watching how-to videos on Youtube. It seems pretty straightforward. I'll be using a trim router to cut the laminate. 

My question is, which type of plywood should I choose, and how thick? HomeDepot has Sanded Pine plywood and I was thinking about using that, assuming that it would have a flat and level surface to apply the laminate to.

I'll be using Wilsonart laminate with bevel edge trim along the sides.


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## BigJim

I wouldn't go any lower than sanded plywood, the decking grade is not good enough. 3/4 inch is standard. You can go with the fiber core but be aware if it gets wet it will swell like crazy, that is the reason I stay away from it and the edges soak up the glue badly.

I always add a strip to the front and back of the 3/4 inch to make the edges 1 1/2 inch thick so you will need to strip out the rest so the top will sit level.


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## r0ckstarr

Thanks. I will have a dishwasher sitting under one end of it. What would you recommend to keep the steam and moisture off of the wood? Polyurethane Primer?


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## BigJim

r0ckstarr said:


> Thanks. I will have a dishwasher sitting under one end of it. What would you recommend to keep the steam and moisture off of the wood? Polyurethane Primer?


That is what I do, but only on the under side, the poly and HPL glue don't get along to well.


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## r0ckstarr

BigJim said:


> That is what I do, but only on the under side, the poly and HPL glue don't get along to well.


As far as them not getting along well, should I put the poly on first and let it dry completely, or do the laminate side first?


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## r0ckstarr

BigJim said:


> I wouldn't go any lower than sanded plywood, the decking grade is not good enough.


Is there anything better to use than sanded plywood?

Also, I went to get some polyurethane sealer, and accidentally got Spar Urethane. Should I return it for actual Poly, or will this do? 

I was reading on the differences between the 2, and from my understanding, Spar is more for outdoor use in wet environments. I would think that it would be fine on the underside of a countertop, to protect it from the dishwasher, but felt it was better to ask first.


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## BigJim

AC plywood or BC would be really good, I stay away from the big boxes plywood, it will separate most times. I use to us import birch or a paint grade birch is a good plywood also.

I think you will be fine to use that as a sealer.


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## r0ckstarr

There's a small lumber yard nearby that sells birch, red oak, and maple cabinet grade plywood. I do not know if it is AC, but your info definately helps. I didn't know what AC plywood was until now (just googled it). Thanks!


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## SmithTitos

can any body tell me what is the age of laminated countertops?


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## BigJim

HPL was thought about back in the 1800s but didn't really hit it big until around 1920 when a couple of engineers for Westinghouse invented the plastic and started their own company named Formica, the rest is history.


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## framer52

Jim, you don't use temblem under your laminate?


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## BigJim

framer52 said:


> Jim, you don't use temblem under your laminate?


I am not familiar with that, is that a new product on the market?


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## framer52

BigJim said:


> I am not familiar with that, is that a new product on the market?



No, but it is the recommended product to install laminate on.

it is a high density particle board which is specked as the proper underlayment for laminate counters.:thumbsup:


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## BigJim

I know particle board is a lot better today than it use to be but I personally wouldn't use it because of the way it was in the past, get it wet and it is history. I guess old habits are hard to break.


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## r0ckstarr

I called up a local lumber store today and asked if they had AC or BC plywood. They said they had both. I went down and couldn't find the AC. I only found the BC. When I asked about the AC, they pointed me to this. 

Any idea about this? I know nothing about it, which is why I am asking. The BC plywood was listed as BC plywood. This wasn't listed as AC plywood. Maybe it's the fact that most everything that comes from China isn't the greatest, but I figured I would see what I could find out about it first. 





Looking it up online, I found that it's for interior use, imported white birch, from China. Would this be the same as the imported birch you were referring to in a previous post?


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## BigJim

Was the import birch cheaper? That is a little high for a counter top. Check the import birch and see if the veneer is super thin, if it is it is paint grade and should be a cheaper grade. AC plywood is A grade on one side and C grade on the other, BC is B one side C the other. The A grade side should be free of knots and holes, the C side will have holes were knots fell out and such.

BC plywood, the B side will have football shaped plugs but no holes and will make a good base for a counter top. Which ever you buy be sure to check to see if the plywood is delaminating. A lot of Home Depot and some Lowes plywood is bad about that.


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## r0ckstarr

BigJim said:


> Was the import birch cheaper? That is a little high for a counter top. Check the import birch and see if the veneer is super thin, if it is it is paint grade and should be a cheaper grade. AC plywood is A grade on one side and C grade on the other, BC is B one side C the other. The A grade side should be free of knots and holes, the C side will have holes were knots fell out and such.
> 
> BC plywood, the B side will have football shaped plugs but no holes and will make a good base for a counter top. Which ever you buy be sure to check to see if the plywood is delaminating. A lot of Home Depot and some Lowes plywood is bad about that.


No, the BC plywood was about $16.00 cheaper than what's in the picture. This wasn't at a Home Depot or a Lowes. It was at a place called McCoys. 

https://www.mccoys.com/


Also, I made a mistake. My picture shows Red Oak. Under the picture I posted, I said it was White Birch. Sorry, I got the two mixed up.


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## BigJim

I would go with the BC.


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## r0ckstarr

BigJim said:


> I would go with the BC.


Thanks.


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## r0ckstarr

The stuff above is paint grade. I went to another lumber yard today and got some real nice AC fir at $42.00 a sheet. They even let me go into the warehouse and pick out the pieces I wanted. Will update as I make progress. Thanks again for the help BigJim.


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## r0ckstarr

I'll make another thread showing the full progress soon. I don't want to hijack this one. Here's the nearly finished results.

Thank you for this thread, and for all of your help, BigJim. I truly appreciate it.

The laminate is Canyon Black by Wilsonart. 




This is how they really look.






When I learn more about electricity, I plan to swap the outlets out with grey outlets. For now, I put the grey trim on.






Ignore the pan on the bar. :laughing: I moved it off of the stove when I took a picture of the stove, then forgot that I put it on the bar when I took this picture.






Next up is to get matching knobs and hinges, paint the cabinets, finish the bar top, and the floor. (Not exactly in that order.) I have the bar top built, but decided not to laminate it and do something else.


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## BigJim

Buddy, you did a fantastic job, looks great.


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## r0ckstarr

BigJim said:


> Buddy, you did a fantastic job, looks great.


I couldn't have done it without your help. If not for this thread, I wouldn't have thought to ask some of the questions I did, and most likely would have used the wrong materials, or not completed it right the first time. Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## b75nweav

Man, you did a great job on that joker..!


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## wwkayaker

I realize this is an old thread but I thought it might be worth posting here.

I am planning to make my own laminate countertop. How do I deal with 45* angles? I don't have my exact measurements yet. But, I have a u-shaped counter that will be longer than 8 feet and the peninsula end wil be wider than 4 feet. So, I will have to match up cut pieces of laminate/decking.


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## BigJim

wwkayaker said:


> I realize this is an old thread but I thought it might be worth posting here.
> 
> I am planning to make my own laminate countertop. How do I deal with 45* angles? I don't have my exact measurements yet. But, I have a u-shaped counter that will be longer than 8 feet and the peninsula end wil be wider than 4 feet. So, I will have to match up cut pieces of laminate/decking.


You can get HPL 5 feet wide X 12 feet long. If you are using a random pattern or solid color you can butt the joints instead of 45ing them.


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## wwkayaker

BigJim said:


> You can get HPL 5 feet wide X 12 feet long. If you are using a random pattern or solid color you can butt the joints instead of 45ing them.


Thanks. I am using a random pattern so I will butt the joints.


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## BigJim

wwkayaker said:


> Thanks. I am using a random pattern so I will butt the joints.


When you pick up your HPL ask to buy a matching tube of seam filler, sometimes it can come in handy.


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## wwkayaker

I am going to do butt joints but how is the best way to connect the tops. What I am thinking of doing is making my peninsula as one countertop. Then the run under the window as a second counter. Initially, I thought of using a piece of wood under the seam to connect the two counters. Today, I have been reading about countertop bolts. Would it be better to use bolts to connect the two pieces together?


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## BigJim

I like the bolts personally, below is a video showing how two tops are joined, I like tightbond III glue because it is waterproof and will hold like crazy. If you ever plan to take the top apart then I would go with a good silicone instead of the tightbond glue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuqv8xLMLSE

Be careful when getting the two tops tight, you want to get the bolts a little snug then align the HPL on top, be very careful, you can chip the plastic here. I usually use a piece of hardwood with a good crisp edge, lay it right on the edge of the HPL and tap the block, sometimes it you may have to hit it fairly hard. Once the tow tops are flush then finish tightening, do not over tighten the bolts, it can pucker the top at the joints.


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## wwkayaker

Thanks for the video and advice. I am beginning to feel mor confident in doing a good job of the countertop.


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## wwkayaker

I am trying to figure out where to place the seam so that i can optimize the use of my materials. Is it a bad idea to place a seam over the dishwasher? My concerns are pressure from a heavy weight (ie, someone's butt) pushing down the seam or else humidity from the dishwasher ruining the seam?


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## BigJim

That would not be the best place to seam a top, it is a weak spot and with the heat and steam from the washer it can swell the joint.


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## wwkayaker

I have my countertop ready to be laminated. I am using Wilsonart HD laminate with a crescent edge. For the two pieces of countertop beside the oven, in what order should I apply the laminate?...the front of the counter will have the crescent edge, the oven side will have a strip of laminate, and the top obviously will be laminated.

The diy directions I read say to do edges followed by top which I assume is to cover the edge laminate and avoid unsightly lines. My concern, which is likely being overthought, is the junction of the crescent edge and side edge laminate. How do I trim all of the surfaces while ensuring the overlap of the side edge and crescent edge is nice?

I struggled to clearly explain this, so it might be confusing.

Also, wilsonart calls for a specific glue. I was planning to use contact cement for the top and edges, but the diy class for a specific edge glue. Suggestions?

Thanks.


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## BigJim

It is a little hard to see exactly what you are talking about, the strip of HPL on the oven cabinet, does that serve as a back splash against the oven cabinet?

Here is the instructions of how to install the edging and top. You will have to do a practice piece or two until you get the edge dead flush with the top of the HPL. I used Tight bond III because it is water proof, when selecting the staples to shoot from the bottom be sure the staples are the right length or they will shoot through the top of the HPL and ruin it, too short and it will not catch the tongue. 

I kinda shied away from using staples especially that close to the edge of the top, strange things can happen once you pull the trigger. With the tight bond III and clamps and tape that should hold the edge once the glue has set.

Here is the link:
http://www.wilsonart.com/docs/defau...corative-edge-fabrication-manual.pdf?sfvrsn=4

If I am not understanding your question I apologize, maybe a picture or two.


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## wwkayaker

I will post some pictures tomorrow and try to explain better. We may be talking about the same thing but I don't think so.


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## wwkayaker

Okay, here goes...I have looked at some pictures and done more reading which may or may not have helped my understanding.

Obviously, the top of the counter will get Wilsonart laminate.

On edge B, I will be adding the Wilsonart crescent edge.

Edge A is the source of confusion, On edge A, I thought I would be putting a strip of laminate taken from the excess laminate trimmed from the 5'x12' sheet. I wasn't sure how I would add the main laminate to the top of the counter, trim it with a router, then add the crescent edge to side B and the strip of laminate to Edge A, all while routing/filing to get good edges.

After looking at some pictures, it looks as though the crescent edge would be applied to both edges A and B. I am guessing that this is done by trimming some width off of the counter to allow for the thicker crescent edge to fit.

I hope this is clearer.

Finally, I went to my local store and there is no tite-bond glue. There is gorilla glue waterproof. The nearest store to purchase tite-bond is 1.5 hours away. To do this right, I will go for a drive. Will the gorilla glue be suitable for the edging?


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## BigJim

You are right, you would run a strip of HPL on side A. Side A will need to be installed before installing the top HPL because the top HPL should over lap the edging of side A. You would then install the top piece of HPL, then last you would install the front edging. The down side is, the ends of the front edging will show raw fiber core. 

You can not cover the ends of the front edging, because there would be the black edge of the small piece of HPL needed to cover the end of the front edging and it would show from the front and top. I have never run into this situation in all the years I did HPL work. Most of my tops had wood edging or HPL edging or T mold edging.

The way I would trim the front edge of the top, so it would be dead straight to receive the edging of side B, is cover edge A, then cover the top then rip the front edge with a table saw. Make sure to rip with the good side up and the strip on edge A the leading edge into the saw. If the side A is the trailing end, when you cut, the edging will chip or pull loose.

Regular yellow carpenter's glue will work on the front edge, I wouldn't chance the gorilla glue. Gorilla glue needs to be dampened with water to work well and you do not need the front edging wet. Gorilla glue would need to be clamped as it can swell the edging away from the top and look really bad.

I don't have a suggestion on the raw edges of the front edging. If it weren't beveled, you could return the ends back into the top and the ends wouldn't show, but with the beveled edge there would be a small spot of raw edge showing where the bevel met the front of the top.


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## wwkayaker

When you are doing a bevel edge, does it go on all edges...specifically, would it go on the edge beside the stove? Can you post a picture of what the counter edges look like when using a bevel edge beside he stove if you have one?

I am tempted to use the crescent edge on both edges. This will eliminate the exposed mdf, but will result in a bit of a gap between the stove and counter.


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## BigJim

wwkayaker said:


> When you are doing a bevel edge, does it go on all edges...specifically, would it go on the edge beside the stove? Can you post a picture of what the counter edges look like when using a bevel edge beside he stove if you have one?
> 
> I am tempted to use the crescent edge on both edges. This will eliminate the exposed mdf, but will result in a bit of a gap between the stove and counter.


Here is a link showing the bevel edge and the crescent edging:
http://www.wilsonart.com/homeowners/laminates/edge-options

I agree with you, using the crescent edge against the stove and front would solve a few problems.


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## forcedreno2012

Couple of Q's if I may. 

Where to buy the laminate sheets other than big box? My assumption is I do not want vertical grade as that is thinner correct?

I was planning on using MDF as the substrate and want to seal it as much as I can prior to putting the laminate on. I have heard of using the glue water mix, will this work for the underside? (looking to just add a layer from the front underside edge back for a few inches to protect from drips running over the front of the counter back towards the cabinets)


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## BigJim

forcedreno2012 said:


> Couple of Q's if I may.
> 
> Where to buy the laminate sheets other than big box? My assumption is I do not want vertical grade as that is thinner correct?
> 
> I was planning on using MDF as the substrate and want to seal it as much as I can prior to putting the laminate on. I have heard of using the glue water mix, will this work for the underside? (looking to just add a layer from the front underside edge back for a few inches to protect from drips running over the front of the counter back towards the cabinets)


You are right, you do not want vertical grade it is paper thin. MDF will be fine but I would seal all the bottom just as a precaution. MDF will swell especially over the dishwasher because steam can escape the DW. I like TightBond III because it is water proof but a good enamel paint will work also. Don't use any sealer where you will apply the HPL. 

If you can find a cabinet supply, they will have HPL, some lumber companies will also but the cabinet supply will have way more. Is there a reason you don't want to buy HPL from the big box stores? They don't have a huge selection but maybe they could order you some.

There are places online that will ship to you.


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## forcedreno2012

Thanks Jim...so today I did a lil shopping and it looks like I am stuck with one online option. Looked at the big box and funnily enough the 5 cabinet supply companies and the big box all get their counters/laminate from a factory just down the road....and unfortunately they are all 2 weeks out. Guess I am going to have some temp plywood in my future


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## BigJim

forcedreno2012 said:


> Thanks Jim...so today I did a lil shopping and it looks like I am stuck with one online option. Looked at the big box and funnily enough the 5 cabinet supply companies and the big box all get their counters/laminate from a factory just down the road....and unfortunately they are all 2 weeks out. Guess I am going to have some temp plywood in my future


Here is an online supply who will have just about any HPL you could want. They do ship.

http://www.baersupply.com/baer/servlet/CyberVendor/category/C1257687/catalog/?ShowAllGroups=True

These are one of the suppliers I used when I was in business.


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