# House wrap and Cedar Shingle Siding



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Is it full of holes from the old siding nails?
What do you mean by a single row? One row then the vinyl up from there?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Do some research on the material interplay between housewrap and Cedar. I think you will find that you're going to need to use a very specific housewrap that is intended for cedar or use an asphalt felt.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

joecaption said:


> Is it full of holes from the old siding nails?
> What do you mean by a single row? One row then the vinyl up from there?


Joe,

It has staple holes from the vinyl, suppose.

Here's what I mean by single course: 

Single course









Double course












Windows on Wash said:


> Do some research on the material interplay between housewrap and Cedar. I think you will find that you're going to need to use a very specific housewrap that is intended for cedar or use an asphalt felt.


I'll try to find who manufactured the house wrap (it bears the modular manufacturer's name, but I'm not sure who actually made it).


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Felt's cheap, don't even risk it. I'd go over the housewrap with felt. 

#3's are for under-coarse 'only'. Have you even looked at the 3's yet? 

Single coarse is meant to be blind nailed at a 5" exposure, 6" is okay but no more than that.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> Felt's cheap, don't even risk it. I'd go over the housewrap with felt.
> 
> #3's are for under-coarse 'only'. Have you even looked at the 3's yet?
> 
> Single coarse is meant to be blind nailed at a 5" exposure, 6" is okay but no more than that.


 
I was just wondering if leaving the house wrap in place would present any problems.

I thought no. 4 (green label) is for undercoursing and no. 3 is for roofs on utility buildings and vertical sidewalls. I don't mind the knots, I guess.

I guess I'll leave it at six to give triple coverage.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Should be fine as long as you go over it with the felt.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

benjamincall said:


> I guess I'll leave it at six to give triple coverage.


 :thumbsup: There ya go. Don't forget a dbl coarse on the first row.

Use #1's or 2's. #2's can have some wild grain patterns that doesn't look so great when looking at a whole wall of it IMO.

If all you have are gables start with the angles and then fill in the rest. Snap lines with 'white' chalk only.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

No. 3s are $20 a bundle. Not sure I could pay $50 for the good stuff. I'll be happy if they keep the weather out, and they look better than vinyl. Maybe the bleaching oil will make grain less noticeable?


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I would take the wrap off before felting.


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

ron45 said:


> I would take the wrap off before felting.


Why?


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Both are barriers.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

30# felt last for ever. And to answer another posters question as to why take off the other membrane. Same reason why you don't put two vapor barriers on walls the moisture needs to go some where. Either use what is in place not recommended for cedar or use 30# felt. Just don't use both. And answer where is the moisture coming from he has to worry about. Is the vapor from inside the home trapped between the two. also is this manufactured home i.e. Metal base frame that had wheels on to move from dealers lot? Or a true modular house prefabbed and moved on a flat bed semi?


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

benjamincall said:


> No. 3s are $20 a bundle. Not sure I could pay $50 for the good stuff. I'll be happy if they keep the weather out, and they look better than vinyl. Maybe the bleaching oil will make grain less noticeable?


3's are not going to keep the weather out. Use 1's yes expensive but water damage is more costly.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Nailbags said:


> 30# felt last for ever. And to answer another posters question as to why take off the other membrane. Same reason why you don't put two vapor barriers on walls the moisture needs to go some where. Either use what is in place not recommended for cedar or use 30# felt. Just don't use both. And answer where is the moisture coming from he has to worry about. Is the vapor from inside the home trapped between the two. also is this manufactured home i.e. Metal base frame that had wheels on to move from dealers lot? Or a true modular house prefabbed and moved on a flat bed semi?


Most housewraps class 3 vapor retarders and therefore quite breathable.

The moisture will still move through the WRB quite easily and then through the felt.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

Nailbags said:


> 3's are not going to keep the weather out. Use 1's yes expensive but water damage is more costly.


 The choices are number 3s or replacing vinyl and trying to match the old siding that clashes with the light green synthetic slate. My folks are paying for this one, and they want to go the vinyl route, unless I can match the price of the vinyl. I thought about cutting my own shake with a froe, but I'm not sure I can find a source for the cedar rounds.

In answer to the other question, this is a modular house, not a manufactured house.

On a different note, if I use cap nails to attach the felt, won't the caps cause the shingles to stand proud?


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

I see some anecdotal evidence that people are able to make them work for a sidewall with a little bit of effort:


http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...elshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1#BVRRWidgetID


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

What's the easiest procedure for trimming the shingles to square them up?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

benjamincall said:


> What's the easiest procedure for trimming the shingles to square them up?


You shouldn't have to. Unless your buying the fancies (re-manufactured) that come in a box shingles are rarely square. That said bundled shingles should be no more than a 1/4" out of square (off the butt) to meet industry standard guidelines. 

But to answer your question, cut one side on a table saw and then trim the butt with a chop/miter saw. 

If you were using straight grain #1's a speed square and a razor knife is all you'd need.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

I think I'm ready to go with this project.

I have my N66C nailer, a box of these 1-1/4 .08" ring shank nails, the SBC shingle tool, and some ASTM D-4869 30 lb. felt. 

I was thinking that squaring the shingles might be necessary since I'm using a ledger.

I'm not going to attempt to make any sort of rain screen.

I'm also considering "wall grade" white cedar shingles from Dow's instead of the western red cedar. I'll use the Cabot bleaching oil whatever the species.

What would be the issue with using black label red cedar or utility grade white cedar?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

You can do it but the bleaching oil isn't necessary with the whites imo since you're just doing gables vs lots of area that may see any or much sun. The whites turn silver grey just fine on there own where the reds may end up almost black depending on your climate and sun exposure. 

That said, I've never used anything but #1 whites so your mileage may vary with the black label. 

If you're not committed on the nailer yet I'd be using 7/16" x 1-1/2" SS staples. Staples have better holding power imo since they bridge over the grain to hold the shingles in place. 

Whether you use nails or staples Do Not set the air to high. It's much better to have to give the fastener a final tap with a hammer to set it flush than setting it to deep and breaking the fibers of the wood.


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

I've started putting up the felt solo. Should I be worried that its not going on tight? I have some bulges and waves.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Is there sheathing on the wall, what type?

Will you be waterproofing the shingles, or priming them, as you are not using furring or a rainscreen?

Gary


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

OSB. I'm going to be using Cabot bleaching oil.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

OSB does not handle water well. Pull all paper/poly to check the nailing pattern, at least meet code as you could have problems with it bowing off the wall due to lack of fasteners, pp.2, and check for gap between sheets for expansion when wet; http://www.energyoutwest.org/eow_library/__past_confs/EOW_2008_Presentations/Tsongas_Damage.pdf

With the open attic on back, you will be a lot safer than the closed, insulated wall but this info is for shingles/OSB... waterproof the backs or rainscreen it as the shingles are a reservoir siding; http://www.articlesbase.com/home-an...-from-airspace-behind-your-siding-131102.html

IMHO, at the very least- if not rainscreen, mesh, back-prime---- use a drainage housewrap; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...nd-the-gap-eh/?searchterm=foam board in walls

The papers today leave a lot to be desired, not the same as yesteryear's, unless you specify and find one that meets the standard; http://www.civil.uwaterloo.ca/BEG/Downloads/Can_arch_Bldg_Paper-2001.PDF

May be over-kill, but at least think about it, Gary


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

This is the felt I'm using:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_10308-69899-30WRL_0__?productId=3005599

So, I could nail up a bunch of horizontal 1x3 furring strips for the rainscreen, right? My understanding is that not enough bulk water gets through to necessitate vertical channels.

I'm reluctant to use Home Slicker because of complications to the trim work.

On a different note, the furring strips would eliminate my concerns about wrinkled felt.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Felts fine. It's not building in drainage/air movement, I would be concerned about; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-004-drainage-holes-and-moderation Up to you, let us know if that works or not. Open at bottom only, of course the it vents vertically and exhaust through the siding but air gets to it all; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/informationalkits/infokit_0015_Walls_A530.pdf

Gary


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

Gary,

I'm not sure I understand. Typo?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Which part? My wife doesn't understand me most of the time, also, lol. Gary


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

"It's not building in drainage/movement . . . " 

and 

" . . . of course the it vents vertically and exhaust through the siding . . . " 

Looks like a typo or two. Couldn't quite guess what's missing. Thanks.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

You're over thinking this imo. 

I'm more concerned that it's been 6 weeks since you started this thread and apparently your gables still have no siding on them.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Ben, sent you a PM for one-on-one...  Gary


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## benjamincall (Apr 25, 2008)

Gary, people appear to be using untreated SPF to build these rainscreens. Do you foresee a problem with this practice?

Edit:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/all-about-rainscreens

***Under "What can I use for furring strips?," the author states that the furring strips need not be treated since the rainscreen is designed to remain dry.


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