# painting over new solid deck stain



## paintpimp (Dec 22, 2009)

You can restain over the deckscapes solid with deckscapes solid in a different color. If water beads up yet on the existing finish you may need to give light sand or good wash to prevent the repellant from repelling the new coat of stain.


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## passthepoi (May 14, 2010)

Thanks - I appreciate your response, but the reason I posted is that SW (incl. area rep.) is telling me that I cannot do that and that at best, I have to wait a few years until it wears down enough, strip/sand completely or replace the decking. Can you tell me why you think I can do as you suggest? thanks in advance Robert


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## bobtheblindguy (Dec 21, 2009)

So what the SW rep is telling you is to never us SW because the prep work to re stain is way too difficult and time consuming. I don't believe that. Maybe that rep is a little inexperience. I would go higher up the corp ladder and find someone with real exp.


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

Solid stains are funny animals
Some specify a second coat (at first application) and one coat yearly thereafter
Some say a second coat can be applied "if needed"
Some say they are a one coat product and not to apply a second coat

I'd think that if the paint dealer/rep could make you happy and make your problem go away simply by selling you some more product, that they would be happy to do so
But things being what they are, I went right to the data sheet
http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&prodno=640359204&doctype=PDS&lang=E

SW says with Deckscapes two coats are recommended for durability in traffic areas, but not needed for rails or balusters
They also say do not apply more than two coats

So I'd say if you only have one coat on your deck boards, you might be able to apply a second one
But if there are two on there now, then...not so much


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## passthepoi (May 14, 2010)

Thanks alot, Slick. There are two coats on there (about a week old). Is it possible to let it cure, and sand a bit, put some fine primer on and paint instead of stain? Desperate!


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## noboru wataya (May 17, 2010)

passthepoi said:


> Thanks alot, Slick. There are two coats on there (about a week old). Is it possible to let it cure, and sand a bit, put some fine primer on and paint instead of stain? Desperate!


yes that is entirely possible. let it dry for a good while (a couple of months at least). what these "stains" do is they cure out and a film is created on the surface of the sealant. you can sand this off or powerwash it. basically, you will want to sand or wash to where WATER STOPS BEADING UP on the surface. once you get to that point, you can recoat with whatever you want.

as for a primer, i would use an oil-based primer so it really seals the old stuff off and you will have less worries about adhesion.

for a paint, i do think a paint is often a better solution for decks than stains though most people seem to think otherwise. the thing about stain is that you must recoat every so often. there are floor paints that you can do once and forget about forever. 

if i were doing it, i would sand/strip off all the existing stain i could, prime with some alkyd-based exterior primer, and top coat with a heavy duty, oil-based floor paint for the walking surfaces and a regular oil based exterior paint for railing and the like. Benjamin Moore makes INCREDIBLE paints for both of these applications as well as the primer. 

Hope this helps...

Nob


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## passthepoi (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the excellent encouraging advice! Are you speaking from experience?


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## noboru wataya (May 17, 2010)

passthepoi said:


> Thanks for the excellent encouraging advice! Are you speaking from experience?


i'm actually working on a lady's deck right now that is dissatisfied with her solid acrylic stain. it is coming up in places so we're taking it all off and recovering with Cabot's Solid Color Oil Decking Stain. We are _not_ using a primer (thus the use of the oil product). 

So far so good...

Nob


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

passthepoi said:


> Thanks alot, Slick. There are two coats on there (about a week old). Is it *possible* to let it cure, and sand a bit...


And then re-stain?
It *might* work
Which is why the paint manufacturer is telling you not to do it
There is a risk of failure

In truth, stains and paints want to stick...it's what they are made to do
But the store, rep, and technical data to say don't do it
They have tested the product enough to know it *might not* or even *won't* work for your application
What's an acceptable rate of failure on this one?
10%, 25%...75%?
99%?
Whatever it was, it was unacceptable to SW
Sorry, your on your own if you choose that option
But yes, it *might* work


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

noboru wataya said:


> ...let it dry for a good while (a couple of months at least).... you can sand this off.... basically, you will want to sand...to where WATER STOPS BEADING UP on the surface. once you get to that point, you can recoat with whatever you want.
> 
> if i were doing it, i would sand/strip off all the existing stain i could...


Basically the prep for this is as SW described, remove existing finish (until water no longer beads up on it)

This would work


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

noboru wataya said:


> as for a primer, i would use an oil-based primer so it really seals the old stuff off and you will have less worries about adhesion.
> 
> for a paint, i do think a paint is often a better solution for decks than stains though most people seem to think otherwise. the thing about stain is that you must recoat every so often. there are floor paints that you can do once and forget about forever.


Although that is an option, I tend to not think it is a good one for a deck exposed to sun and rain
Porch/Floor/Patio paints rend to be glossier than stain and slipperier when wet
And sorry, they also do not by any means last forever
And when they do fail (and they will) you then have to scrape and sand, re-prime and re-coat as opposed to stains that when they fail are supposed to simply fade away, and usually just need a good cleaning before re-applying

Of course, we should all be applying out maintenance coats of either before the existing starts to fail, but that doesn't always happen


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

noboru wataya said:


> yes that is entirely possible. let it dry for a good while (a couple of months at least). what these "stains" do is they cure out and a film is created on the surface of the sealant. you can sand this off or powerwash it. basically, you will want to sand or wash to where WATER STOPS BEADING UP on the surface. once you get to that point, you can recoat with whatever you want.
> 
> as for a primer, i would use an oil-based primer so it really seals the old stuff off and you will have less worries about adhesion.
> 
> ...


 
Now , THAT, I would like to see:whistling2::laughing:

There are NO paints that last for ever:no: and a floor paint on a deck would be very lucky to last 5 years, very lucky and with no foot traffic.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

4 coats of oil stain is a lot. Even for oil. Your SW rep is right in that once stain builds up enough it will be more likely to peel. That might be what he is thinking.


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## noboru wataya (May 17, 2010)

chrisn said:


> Now , THAT, I would like to see:whistling2::laughing:
> 
> There are NO paints that last for ever:no: and a floor paint on a deck would be very lucky to last 5 years, very lucky and with no foot traffic.


define forever...right?

our deck (walking surface only) was coated with a polyurethane fortified, oil-based paint about 15 years ago. its not quite as shiny as it used to be but it has held up perfectly since. the color (dark brown) has not faded a lick either.


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## hennyh (Nov 14, 2006)

I would strip it down to bare wood and start over.

Use a lightly tinted oil based stain and apply one thin coat with a brush while working in the shade. Repeat every 2-3 years.

Solid colors and paints just don't hold up well on decks and when they fail they look terrible.


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## noboru wataya (May 17, 2010)

hennyh said:


> Solid colors and paints just don't hold up well on decks and when they fail they look terrible.


what about this?


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## hennyh (Nov 14, 2006)

noboru wataya said:


> what about this?


 
I like this one better:

http://www.cabotstain.com/products/product/Clear-Solutions.html

Solid colors on a deck just don't age gracefully IMHO. Then the homeowner covers it with more stain and pretty soon you have a thick coating that fails even more frequently and looks like crap.

It's personal preference, but I prefer thin/lightly tinted wood color stains.


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