# Brake job!!



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Went to visit my mom with the kids over the 4th, and the Navigator started making a growling sound when I hit the brakes. The sound is in the front. I checked and evidently, the wear indicator doesn't chirp on this vehicle, just makes a low growling sound. It sure gets your attention!

Looks like I will be doing brakes this weekend. Looks pretty easy on Youtube. Expedition, F-150 and Nav are all the same. I did a brake job last summer on the Villager and this looks easier. Anybody got any tips from personal experience? Not sure if I am going to just replace the pads, or both pads and rotors. Probably just do pads and if there is an issue, do the rotors later. Money's a little tight right now. Any opinions on Duralast Gold brake pads? How about what they sell at NAPA? I get an employee discount at NAPA through work. Thanks.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Get the mid grade through NAPA or which ever they suggest. More time that I can count I have changed out auto zone pads cause they don't stop well. Cheap rotors from NAPA are good.:vs_cool:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I checked the front rotors today at lunch. They have "record grooves" so I am replacing them too. My GVW on this SUV is 7200 pounds so I am not going to cheap out on the brakes.  

Might check the rear too.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Often you only need to turn the rotors to TRUE UP the surface grooves, This is much cheaper than replacing them.

If they are still within tolerances that is, but if wore down past the recommended tolerance-- replace.

Use a big C-clamp to compress the caliper back in so you have room to install new pads, Do not let brake fluid spill out all over your wiring harness, it destroys the insulation and will cause a bad drain on the battery. 

And NAPA mid-grade or better are good. 


ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Got the wheels off. Both rotors are ruined. Makes me wonder if my bro ever replaced the pads ONCE in 16 years! Fortunately, rotors and pads are cheap. I think I will go with ceramic pads, since they are only 5 bucks more than semi-metallic. Opinions on this are welcome and encouraged.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Ceramic pads generally last a bit longer than semi-metallic, Could easily crack if they take an impact, probably no worry though, this is a family car, not a Baja buggy. 

Am sorry to hear about the minor problem on your new pride, but as in buying a used vehicle, expect a few little kinks to work out.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> Ceramic pads generally last a bit longer than semi-metallic, Could easily crack if they take an impact, probably no worry though, this is a family car, not a Baja buggy.
> 
> Am sorry to hear about the minor problem on your new pride, but as in buying a used vehicle, expect a few little kinks to work out.
> 
> ED


Believe me, I'm not complaining. The only thing the Nav cost me was gas to get here, title and registration. My bro isn't a car guy like me. He gets them serviced regularly, and if he has a problem, takes it to a shop. I didn't know the brakes needed work either until they started making noise. About $120 for rotors and ceramic pads, plus a couple of hours on Saturday morning. Probably get up early before it gets real hot.

NAPA is on the way to work. Might swing by there this morning.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Rotors are disposable. Spend the money on good brake pads and have excellent stopping power for emergency situations.

Also, I 2nd the cheap NAPA rotors.

I put Power-Stop Evolution Sport Carbon Fiber/Ceramic pads on my '04 Ranger, and after bedding them in, the Ranger _feels_ like it stops just as good as my Miata with EBC brakes.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

did you check also sliding pins on calipers?, on job like that on my gm pickup, last time i had to replace calipers (stuck sliding pins) and put rebuild ones (only 35-40$ each! after exchange)


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

With that many years you also want to have a good look at the calipers, too. Maybe clean up the pistons and replace seals. If one of the pistons sticks it can destroy a rotor and pad in no time, as well as losing braking.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't think this design has sliding calipers. From the diagram I found and what's in the Haynes manual, the only thing that moves is the piston. The pads and pistons (there are two) and in a separate, detachable caliper. To remove the rotor you have to take the caliper bracket off too. Then the rotor just pulls off. "Shouldn't" be that difficult. Hah! Heard that before!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> I don't think this design has sliding calipers. From the diagram I found and what's in the Haynes manual, the only thing that moves is the piston. The pads and pistons (there are two) and in a separate, detachable caliper. To remove the rotor you have to take the caliper bracket off too. Then the rotor just pulls off. "Shouldn't" be that difficult. Hah! Heard that before!












See the little rubber seal on the bottom left and right of the pic? That's your caliper pins. Pop the rubber boot off of each side of the caliper and grease the pins. It's good preventative maintenance.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I got the parts at NAPA this afternoon. $108 for everything with my employee discount, including two packs of brake grease. I got the premium rotors and premium mid grade semi-metallic pads. 

I saw the little rubber boots on Autozones web site. $5. I might pick up a couple, but will definitely grease them up and apply grease to the back of the pads.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> I got the parts at NAPA this afternoon. $108 for everything with my employee discount, including two packs of brake grease. I got the premium rotors and premium mid grade semi-metallic pads.
> 
> I saw the little rubber boots on Autozones web site. $5. I might pick up a couple, but will definitely grease them up and apply grease to the back of the pads.


I don't replace the rubber boots unless new ones come with the kit, or unless their torn, feel brittle, or feel like their about to tear. If their in good shape, I just reuse them.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I checked out the back brakes this afternoon when I got home. They are effed up too! Yay!! Not on this pay check, but gives me something to do next month.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Are the rears drums or discs on a Navigator?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

r0ckstarr said:


> Are the rears drums or discs on a Navigator?


Discs.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Rust, rust and more rust. Pads ground down to metal, caliper pistons fully extended, rotor and a caliper bracket rust welded to the hub and steering knuckle. About as bad it could be. Here is a little video of what I found. Four hours in the street in front of my house, and still couldn't move the caliper bracket or rotor frozen solid. Finally just put the old pads back on, and limped it down to the repair shop. I have a job for a reason, one of which is to pay for stuff I can't do. Oh well.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Bigplanz said:


> Got the wheels off. Both rotors are ruined. Makes me wonder if my bro ever replaced the pads ONCE in 16 years! Fortunately, rotors and pads are cheap. I think I will go with ceramic pads, since they are only 5 bucks more than semi-metallic. Opinions on this are welcome and encouraged.



Remember what I told you about this car?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

A few pictures to go with the video. One pleasant surprise was that the emergency jack that comes with the Nav actually works. My trolley jack wouldn't lift it high enough. The little jack is a dynamo! Wow. You can see from the picture its lift range. Shop just called me: $210 to repair it. Well, worth it. Sometime you have to pay the money. This was one of them.

Edit to add: they let me use the rotors I bought from NAPA. Sold me their own pads though. No biggie. I will keep them to put on myself in a couple of years.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

One thing you need to do with those Navigators is make sure to turn off the load leveling suspension system before you jack it up. But since you've already worked on it, I assume it either doesn't have that or you already did that.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> Four hours in the street in front of my house, and still couldn't move the caliper bracket or rotor frozen solid. Finally just put the old pads back on, and limped it down to the repair shop.


You need a bigger screwdriver/pry bar. 

If it's that bad, I would have replaced the calipers as well for added peace of mind. My biggest concern would be breaking off the bolts that hold the caliper on. 

I wonder if the shop greased your caliper pins? Do you know what brand/type of brake pads they used and how they compare to your NAPA pads? Suppose they put cheap economy pads on there, and you have a much better set sitting on the shelf?

Also, thumbs-up for using jack stands. :thumbsup:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

r0ckstarr said:


> You need a bigger screwdriver/pry bar.
> 
> If it's that bad, I would have replaced the calipers as well for added peace of mind. My biggest concern would be breaking off the bolts that hold the caliper on.
> 
> ...


The caliper itself, came off easily, Two pins, Torx 45, no problem. The 18mm bracket bolts, different story. Could NOT get them to even move, much less come off. Brake rotor itself, forget it. WELDED TO THE HUB. Banged on it with a 4 pound sledge, nothing. OK, somebody could get it off, but they weren't here. 

Yes, I turned off the air suspension. Calipers retracted OK and they lubed everything up. Nav brakes fine. They put ceramic pads on it, about twice the price of retail at NAPA (the shop uses NAPA parts). They were cool with me bringing in my own rotors, so for $214 total, I am good.

Jack stands are incredibly important. 6 ton in the back, 3 ton in the front, next to the jack. Absolutely essential.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

They charged me $96 for these, OK. I get it. Retail markup and all that.

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/RSSSS7576X/RSSSS7576X_0228281686


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bigplanz said:


> Brake rotor itself, forget it. WELDED TO THE HUB.


Do the rotors have wheel bearings, or are they the type that slide on?



Bigplanz said:


> Calipers retracted OK and they lubed everything up. Nav brakes fine.


Ok, gotcha. I wasn't there. I was only going by the rusty rotor in your video. 

For $214, I would say that's a pretty good price. My girlfriend took the '04 Ranger to get new tires about a year ago, and they told her that her rear drum brakes were so worn that they were unsafe, and quoted her $390 to replace them. She almost told them to do it, but called me first. I said NO WAY! She brought the truck home and I looked at them. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the rear brakes. It's shops like the one she went to why I question the work done by someone else. I tend to be a bit more thorough in what gets done, and how it gets done when I do it myself.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Good call on that. The lightly loaded rear drums on light trucks like Rangers, S-10s and my Tacoma are pretty much lifetime brakes in terms of wear. So be VERY suspicious of shops telling you they need replaced. I pull my drums off every couple of years just to have a look, check adjustment and to make it easier to get the drums off next time.



r0ckstarr said:


> For $214, I would say that's a pretty good price. My girlfriend took the '04 Ranger to get new tires about a year ago, and they told her that her rear drum brakes were so worn that they were unsafe, and quoted her $390 to replace them. She almost told them to do it, but called me first. I said NO WAY! She brought the truck home and I looked at them. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the rear brakes. It's shops like the one she went to why I question the work done by someone else. I tend to be a bit more thorough in what gets done, and how it gets done when I do it myself.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

raylo32 said:


> Good call on that. The lightly loaded rear drums on light trucks like Rangers, S-10s and my Tacoma are pretty much lifetime brakes in terms of wear. So be VERY suspicious of shops telling you they need replaced. I pull my drums off every couple of years just to have a look, check adjustment and to make it easier to get the drums off next time.


Yep. On my '96 Ranger, the hardware failed before the shoes wore out. At close to 300k miles, one of the springs on the drivers-side rear drum broke. A piece of it somehow got between the shoe and the drum, and I could hear it every time I stopped. I replaced everything inside the drums on both sides. It will be a very long time before I have to do it again, if ever.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

The 4WD Navigator has standard slip on rotors. Should be easy to get off and on, much like the caliper bracket. Not so much on a car that has spent 16 years in the North East. The operative words are "rust welded." After I got the pads out (20 minutes) a thunderstorm came up. I went back out after the rain, banged on the rotor, tried to get the caliper bracket out, nothing moved at all. Finally, after two+ hours, I drove down to the store to find an 18mm impact socket, since that is the odd ball size used on the caliper bracket. While driving (wife's mini van) i stopped at the nearby Goodyear shop. They have done work for me before and I have no complaints. I stopped in and showed them the pad, told what i was doing and asked for a price to do it if I brought it in. They said, about $210 but we have to use our own pads. We can install your rotors though.

I said, OK, went home, put the pads back in, put the new rotors in the front seat, limped it slowly down there (about a mile) and picked it up noon on Saturday.

Might get the back discs done later this summer. I am sure they are rusted to hell too.

Edit to add: $96 for the pads, $96 labor.


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