# Programmable thermostat for condo



## ljtexasx (Jan 1, 2017)

My friend has asked me to install a programmable thermostat in her condo to help her save energy. I've done this in my own home before so thought it would be easy. Picked up a Honeywell 7-day programmable thermostat at HD as I thought it would do the job. After turning off power to the HVAC in her condo, I removed the faceplate of the current thermostat and found it had 9 wires -- obviously different from what I have ever encountered in a house. I searched the internet for "programmable thermostat for condo" and "thermostat with 9 wires" but no luck. What is this type of system called and where do I get a programmable thermostat for it?


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Let's start with you taking that thermostat back and returning it. Your friend has a 120v system, not a 24v system. 

You'll need a honeywell suitepro

Don't let the condo corp find out... They usually don't like diy anything. 

Cheers!


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

It all depends on what they use for heating and cooling the bldg.

With that many wires I suspect they are using a fan coil with a geothermal system or hot water heating coil with a boiler and a separate cooling coil with a chiller.

Only way to find out is to talk to the building maintenance company. There is no off the shelf 9 wire thermostats I know of.

If you install a thermostat and damage the building equipment you could and likely will be liable for damages.


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## akjose (Jan 1, 2013)

What is the original thermostat? Can you figure out what the settings are on it? I found the manual for mine on the internet and was able to get into the programming setup options to see how it is set for which type of unit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

From the wiring, it looks like a 3 speed fan coil, with 3 wire aquastat (for auto switch over), and a valve actuator. (spring return) 

It's all 120v. Putting a regular thermostat on from HD will result in fire and brimstone. (literally, I've seen people blow them off the wall, right before the catch fire) 

Cheers!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Yeah, its either a 120 or 240 volt thermostat. for a fan coil. Controls water valve actuators, and fan speed. 

Need brand and full model number of the current thermostat to know what can be used to replace it.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

beenthere said:


> Yeah, its either a 120 or 240 volt thermostat. for a fan coil. Controls water valve actuators, and fan speed.
> 
> Need brand and full model number of the current thermostat to know what can be used to replace it.


We use the honeywell suitepro for just about all of these. Quite versatile. Much more then the older T6 line. Anyways the OP is probably looking for something like the honeywell TB6575A. It works with both 120, and 240v. The TB6575C also works with 277V. Good luck on finding one locally, there's plenty online. 

There's a fuse inside that's NOT replacable. If you mix up some wires, The thermostat is toast. 

Cheers!


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## ljtexasx (Jan 1, 2017)

Thanks for all the help! Looks like this is a Honeywell Suitepro 6575B. I was looking to install something that is time-of-day programmable to different temperatures, like I have in my own home. Is this not possible?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Not without using a relay board.
http://hvac.place/ICM6200-Fan-Coil-Relay-Board_p_2333.html

Thermostat
http://hvac.place/Carrier-33CSSP2-FC-Fan-Coil-Thermostat--Programmable_p_323.html


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Not trying to be negative, setback thermostats at best may save you 3-4% or less on your heating bill. They don't make a huge difference IMO.

I live in a VERY cold climate. -40F or -40C with 30 mph winds at times.

Only about 5% of my customers bother with setback thermostats and programming them down.

Poor insulation and poor windows and drafts around doors/windows/attic hatches is where you lose most of your heat. Improve those and you get huge savings.

With a hot water heating system like your friend has it may take a long time to recover. Unlike a furnace that can produce extra heat a lot faster, hot water is slower as the water temp is lower.

All things to consider before going thru a lot of trouble to change a complicated thermostat. With a basic 4 wire house one you cannot go wrong but with this line voltage one you need to know what the wires do and control.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

10% when done right.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

It is about 3-4% according to the engineers at Manitoba Hydro and they are actual mechanical engineers. But you have to go 3 deg C which is around 5-6 F. Most people feel quite uncomfortable going past 2 deg F.

However to each his own.

https://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/heating_and_cooling/thermostats.shtml


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

yuri said:


> It is about 3-4% according to the engineers at Manitoba Hydro and they are actual mechanical engineers. But you have to go 3 deg C which is around 5-6 F. Most people feel quite uncomfortable going past 2 deg F.
> 
> However to each his own.
> 
> https://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/heating_and_cooling/thermostats.shtml


I go 3.5*c  It's a smaller percentage for condos, as they are sharing their heat between floors and walls. Keeping the water reset on good numbers does better. 

OP:
Water loop systems are typically heated by the condo Corp, and you pay it with maintenance fees. I've only seen a few that use independent water heaters in the suites. The thermostat won't save you much, if anything. Even if you're on separate electrical billing, it wouldn't make a scratch in the bill. (it doesn't look like you have aux heating so that's not a problem, but they could have wired something differently in the unit) 

Cheers!


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

beenthere said:


> Not without using a relay board.
> http://hvac.place/ICM6200-Fan-Coil-Relay-Board_p_2333.html
> 
> Thermostat
> http://hvac.place/Carrier-33CSSP2-FC-Fan-Coil-Thermostat--Programmable_p_323.html


That only works with 24v actuators. You'd have to use another relay or change the actuator. 

Cheers!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

yuri said:


> It is about 3-4% according to the engineers at Manitoba Hydro and they are actual mechanical engineers. But you have to go 3 deg C which is around 5-6 F. Most people feel quite uncomfortable going past 2 deg F.
> 
> However to each his own.
> 
> https://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/heating_and_cooling/thermostats.shtml


I'm going by Honeywell, and from customers.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Honeywell has a vested interest in selling them so I would be suspicious.

All depends on how far down a person sets it back and for how long.

I would expect 5% or less and if you get more great.

I like to be warm and set mine back 1-2 deg F at night. I have never had a customer comment on how great they thought their setback tstat was and we have very cold weather and large bills where I am. However most people are going R40 in the attic and getting better windows and definitely fixing their weatherstripping and stopping drafts.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

I do 10°F, and sometimes as much as 15°F. Basically a 45% reduction in oil consumption. Yes on the colder nights, I have to wait a bit before it warms up in here. But a 600 dollar plus savings is worth it.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

beenthere said:


> I do 10°F, and sometimes as much as 15°F. Basically a 45% reduction in oil consumption. Yes on the colder nights, I have to wait a bit before it warms up in here. But a 600 dollar plus savings is worth it.


You either live alone, or your family is very cooperative....... Wow. Everyone I know would have riots in their house at those temps, lol. 

I go from 21.5*C(70.5*f) down to 18*C(64.5). Dunno if you start higher or lower then that though. (When Ib was running the heat pump it was 18 while we were there, and 15 when we were gone for more then a day. I only used a setback at night when the heat strips were locked out on OAT) 

Cheers!


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

As a DIY and someone whom has little-to-no HVAC training is it fair to say the advantage(s) or disadvantage(s) of a setback are dependent upon multiple parameters and detail such as the following may be necessary in order to make a meaningful assessment:

1	What is the homeowner’s goal—comfort, or economics?
2	What are their heat sources?
3	How efficient is their primary [low-cost] heat source (i.e. at what minimum outdoor temperature is their primary heat source no longer effective)? 
4	What amount of space is their primary heat source heating?
5	Is it possible that we homeowners may need to tweak our thermostat’s program settings from time-to-time depending upon outdoor temperature conditions? 

I’m not trying to prove a point but I live in Southern Ohio [USA]. _Most_ winter heat can be satisfied by my heat pump but my HP may be more—or it may be less—effective than others’. In my feeble mind I believe there are variables that determine these outcomes and I hold the belief they cannot be calculated by the thermostat’s firmware algorithm. 

I think when our household experiences outdoor _daytime_ temps of 5*f or above we can mostly rely upon our HP to provide heat comfort. However; if we descend to 5*f during _nighttime_ temps our HP sometimes may be able to _maintain_ a given temperature, yet may not be able to _recover_ from a setback . Such conditions may require human interaction depending upon each user’s goal and their equipment performance. When we moved into our house that was built in 2007 our HP had a lockout at—I think 22*f—which was ridiculous for our system because I KNOW we can heat our home solely by our heat pump down into the low teens without any human intervention.

We experience WIDE temperature variances throughout our winter heating months and—in my opinion—these swings require considerable human interaction for those of us whom wish to balance comfort with cost. I have not had the luxury of exploring whether or not there is a Raspberry Pi or some other multi-fasciated solution but I do want to explore the possibility of such options as time permits.

Right now, I am 50’ish and capable of making thermostat adjustments with reasonable intelligence. At some point, though, I can see my adult children hiding the t-stat in a closet, lol.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Your adult children should have their own house and thermostat to fool around with.:smile:


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

yuri said:


> Your adult children should have their own house and thermostat to fool around with.


Lol! Until they come to change your clothes 

Cheers!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

supers05 said:


> You either live alone, or your family is very cooperative....... Wow. Everyone I know would have riots in their house at those temps, lol.
> 
> LOL, I live alone. And of course there are times I'm out of the house for 14 or more hours.
> 
> ...





bfletcher7 said:


> As a DIY and someone whom has little-to-no HVAC training is it fair to say the advantage(s) or disadvantage(s) of a setback are dependent upon multiple parameters and detail such as the following may be necessary in order to make a meaningful assessment:
> 
> 1 What is the homeowner’s goal—comfort, or economics? Some people do prefer a cooler sleeping temp, so they set back for comfort, and are not concerned with saing.
> 2 What are their heat sources? Thi is teh one that counts the most.
> ...


In another 5 or 10 years, I can see my adult children hiding me in a closet. :smile:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

lol, guys.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

The ecobee does a great job though of managing setbacks to outdoor temp. It starts earlier/later depending on OAT, to keep only first stage running. (that would be compressor only if I used the heat pump) It's a huge step forward compared compared to what I was used to. 

Cheers!


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