# Best way to flatten/level existing ceiling framing?



## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

I'd recommend 20 ga. which you'll have to get from a drywall supply. (You could actually use wood.) I don't quite follow.........if you level the ceiling by putting studs on the side of the joists, why would you even need strapping?? I don't think planing 1/4" - 3/8" would would affect the structural integrity of the joist either, especially if it's a one story and all you're doing is holding up the drywall. (Someone else more knowledgeable in structural engineering may prove me wrong.)


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

First off are beams off just because they are off, or is is because some are sagging from too much weight (like a second floor)?

Second, is this just a ceiling or is there a room up above or are you planning to put a room up above?

The reason I ask the second question is that it pays to think ahead. If there is the possibility of having a room above then more than likely 2x6's will not hold the weight.

Using a power planner will not affect the structure if you take off the amount you are talking about.

I suggest getting a self leveling laser level and use that to make the beams level. You can get one at Harbor Freight for less than $100. They work great for jobs like this.


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## RolandOG (May 23, 2008)

No, these are just ceiling joists with attic above. There's no possibility of it ever being turned into a room. These joists will only be carrying the dead load of the drywall and a once-a-year walk by me up in the attic if I need to go up there.

The joists aren't sagging so much as they're not very straight and never were. Before this renovation this room was the garage. The finished ceiling had cracks all over it. I didn't care because it was the garage. Now that it's going to be a family room I want to flatten the ceiling framing to avoid cracking and screw pops.


I have a PLS 180 laser. I bought it for this project with leveling the ceiling and straightening walls in mind. It's worth every penny.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Again, I'd just level by adding a 2"x or metal stud to the side of the "high" joists or plane the low ones since it's a small amount. If it's just holding up the drywall, it shouldn't be a problem. No need to add strapping unless you just need to drop the ceiling more........


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmmm. had problems b4...converted garage...
just what size are your 2x ceiling joists (collar ties...lol) and what is the span? Might be ways to be sure your new ceiling stays nice once you get the plane flat.

any other bracing ? rat runs?


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

I would 'think' it easier to shim the too high ones with a plaster lath or other proper sized material than plane OFF material...that could lead to MORE and difficult problems. Obviously they didnt crown the 2X6's all up or down,,,OR it was poor grade of wood,,,or both.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

If its a garage that was turned into a room, my thinking is there wasn,t any strong back installed !. I would go ahead and install one. this will bring all the ceiling beams back in plane with each other. BOB


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## RolandOG (May 23, 2008)

I think it was both, 4just1don. The joists are just kinda thrown up there, somewhere around 16" oc, except where they're 24" oc. Some are twisted, some are crown up, some are crown down.

The funny thing is, the rest of the house is very well built. We've had pro contractors out to the house say as much. Anyway, it appears when they built the garage they used the dregs of the lumber they had left.

Buletbob,

This was a garage until about 3 months ago. What's a strong back? Is this a joist running perp. to the ceiling joists to force them down? Some sort of brace tied to the rafters above to force them down? I'm not familiar with that term.

EDIT: a quick search answers the strong back question. That may be a possible solution but the house has a hip roof and no gable to tie into at the ends. One end is at the roof edge and the other is at the center of the house so there's nothing to tie into.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Not sure, but I think what Bob is referring to is called a "catwalk" in this area. I'll let him make the clarification though. If you have joists on 24" centers, you may want to consider 5/8" drywall on the ceiling to reduce sagging between the joists. Especially if you use a heavy texture like stipple or acoustic spray....


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## RolandOG (May 23, 2008)

bjbatlanta said:


> Not sure, but I think what Bob is referring to is called a "catwalk" in this area. I'll let him make the clarification though. If you have joists on 24" centers, you may want to consider 5/8" drywall on the ceiling to reduce sagging between the joists. Especially if you use a heavy texture like stipple or acoustic spray....


Well, won't the new strapping be enough to resist sagging? That will be at 16" oc.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Ahhhh, yes. I had forgotten about the strapping. Probably easier than dealing with 5/8" if you're not used to it! Bob sounds like he's on the right track to use extra bracing also. Some of the joist problem may be from the span and improper (or lack of) bracing. I'll let him finish that response.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

You could use 2X3 strapping and block/shim to the ceiling joists ( collar ties ha! ha! )


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

In passing, I would recommend using screws to fasten the strapping to the joists.
Hammering up-wards, sucks big time!


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

A few years of nailing drywall overhead and you get used to it, Wildie......:laughing: It does take some getting used to, I'll admit.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

RolandOG said:


> I think it was both, 4just1don. The joists are just kinda thrown up there, somewhere around 16" oc, except where they're 24" oc. Some are twisted, some are crown up, some are crown down.
> 
> The funny thing is, the rest of the house is very well built. We've had pro contractors out to the house say as much. Anyway, it appears when they built the garage they used the dregs of the lumber they had left.
> 
> ...


RolandOG,

Since you are a seasoned poster 27+ and as Buletbob has not had the opportunity to respond Please allow me to try explain with my very limited ability.

Cat walk... rat run.. Strong back... might be colloquial expressions or nomenclature for the same thing. 2 X's nailed in an L shape running perpendicular to and on top of the Ceiling joist (collar ties for Wilde). In hurricane country we install 2' off each the wall and 4' oc.

Yes, the older the garage the less the care in it's construction. ( Horses would make a comeback). Your living space may have received the above or cross bracing (more common on floor joists) or blocking. These good techniques help keep the joists from twisting, sagging, warping, wind load resistance, etc... . Most older garage ceilings would be very lucky to have received any attention framing wise other than required (collar tie framing).

You have not posted any pics,,, so from the info you have posted you have 2x6 joist (collar ties) running wall to wall under a hip roof of undisclosed span... that do not present a flat ceiling plane. You want to install a drywall ceiling that is nice and flat ( and I assume trouble free). 

The answer to your situation may be complex depending on your conditions. Your joists (collar ties) may be too "set in there ways" to allow any help from above. If pictures are not an option then I suggest a set of old all knowing eyes take a peak at your particular situation and advise the best easy fix. 

The proper solution will depend on the results you want and are willing to pay for.


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## RolandOG (May 23, 2008)

Big Bob,

Thanks for the detailed info. You hit it on the head with a number of comments.

I installed a strong back across the joists and while it didn’t get everything level it did line up a number of the joists and reduce the shimming considerably. It still took a LOT of shimming, though. What should have been a couple hour job took all day. I got 75% of the ceiling strapped and a spot-check with an 8' straight edge shows that it's pretty flat. Definitely within an 1/8" and in most cases dead flat. Did I mention a LOT of shimming?

Wildie, I'm using 3" x .131 ring shank nails in my framing nailer. There's no way I'm swinging a hammer over my head all day long.  Plus, there's no way in hell those nails are coming out.

BTW, these 2x6 joists/collar ties are spanning 12'-8" with no bridging. I can post pics but I think I've got it solved now.

This site is a great help to those of us who know some but not enough about construction techniques. Thanks to all of you who take the time to help us DIY’rs out.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Within 1/8" is better than most new construction I come across...........well done!


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## RolandOG (May 23, 2008)

bjbatlanta said:


> Within 1/8" is better than most new construction I come across...........well done!


Really? I figured 1/8” or less was the norm. I wish I didn’t have to shim so many joists but I’m definitely feeling better now after reading that.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

I think you'll be glad you did. If it were my own personal home, I'd try for that kind of perfection. I play the cards I'm dealt on the job. Up to 1/2" discrepancy is not uncommon. If there are just a couple of joists/studs crowned the wrong way, (worse than 1/2") I'll fix them. If it's many, it's time to renegotiate the price or call the framer back.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Big Bob said:


> RolandOG,
> 
> Since you are a seasoned poster 27+ and as Buletbob has not had the opportunity to respond Please allow me to try explain with my very limited ability.
> 
> ...


 
Roland sorry for not responding right away,I am having problems with the site not sending all the responses from some posts, And thanks BIG BOB that was exactly what I was suggesting. if this practice was done at time of construction you would of not had to shim as much, but its good you brought everything back in plain. BOB


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