# Load bearing or not (diagrams and images!)?



## amclint (Nov 17, 2008)

So I'm looking at removing a pantry and creating a doorway into a garage space that is going to be my new den/office. The pantry is moving into the laundry area where we took out a folding table. The issue here is that framing for the pantry seems to have a double 2x4 at the top which a DIY book indicated that said wall could be load bearing (I know nothing about this stuff). It seemed really odd that there would be any load on these pantry walls, so that's why I decided to throw a post up here before having a structural engineer come out (or a contractor). 

I've made two quick visio diagrams based on the assessor sketch and my own observations/measurements and then included a picture of the pantry door frame which shows some of the framing. The red arrows in the level1_original indicate the walls I need to work on, the level1_new shows how the walls will be changed.

If anyone can help me here I would really appreciate it! :thumbup:


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

I doubt the wall your looking to remove is full load bearing, usually with a layout like yours your ceiling or floor joists would be lapped on the center wall just above the basement girder. is there a way for you to see if the beams are lapped on the wall your going to removed. if the beams are running front to back I do not see a problem in what you plan to do. unless they are lapped on the walls in question. BOB


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

I agree with bob (Based on the layouts that you provided). 

I must say, that is one big structural header tho.

As stated, you still need to check and make sure that the area, is definitely not supporting any joists.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Without knowing the direction of the joists above it next to impossible to be sure.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

joed said:


> Without knowing the direction of the joists above it next to impossible to be sure.


Actually, the drawings that the OP supplied to show the main carrying beams, allow the viewer to assume the locations of the joists (based on modern residential building & construction design). 
Couple that with the overall design of the house's footprint; the rafter/truss locations can be assumed as well. This allows the estimation of where (direction) the joists are running. 

Again, that is based on viewing the PO supplied details.

However, no responsible person on this site, will tell a poster, to go ahead an cut-away, unless they could see the area in person. That would be irresponsible on our part. Thus, the best and safest method, would really be, to have a licensed or certified individual look at the area, in person - to OK it for the work planned.


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## ciera (Jun 24, 2007)

Curious, what's above that space?

It's worth it to hire a structural engineer. Previous owners at our house didn't before taking down a wall that didn't appear to be load-bearing. (Honestly, I would have made the same mistake; it really seemed to not be doing anything.) It was actually distributing a lot of weight though, and the second floor sank 3 inches because they removed it.


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## amclint (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re:*

This is the first floor of a 2 floor home, below it is a basement with a big I beam going through the middle.

I think the stuctural header threw me, can anyone tell me if the DIY book has any validity in stating the two 2x4's stacked at the top of the wall means load bearing?


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## amclint (Nov 17, 2008)

Let me be clear, I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me it's safe to cut away just whether or not these walls I highlighted in red could be load bearing or if that would be really unlikely given how houses are built (I just don't know these things). It seems odd to me to put weight there, but it may be incidental if the floor joists for the 2nd level are just running across them? Anyway thanks for looking at the post, I've got a call into the old homeowner who incidentally is a contractor and built the place so I'm hoping he'll remember and be able to tell me


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

amclint said:


> This is the first floor of a 2 floor home, below it is a basement with a big I beam going through the middle.
> 
> I think the stuctural header threw me, can anyone tell me if the DIY book has any validity in stating the two 2x4's stacked at the top of the wall means load bearing?


Those double 2x4's are going to be on a no bearing and bearing wall that is how those walls are framed. BOB


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Actually, the drawings that the OP supplied to show the main carrying beams, allow the viewer to assume the locations of the joists (based on modern residential building & construction design).


I see that now. I mis read the post and thought the dashed line were the wall needed to be removed. My guess is that the small pantry needed to be moved in not load bearing and if it is, moving the short distance shown in the drawing will not be a problem. Build the new wall before you remove the old one.


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