# Heat or Air won't turn off from Thermostat



## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

hello,

I'm having a problem with my heat turning off from the thermostat. I have a heatpump unit outside and the heat furnaces are in the attic (at least I believe this is so). I recently installed a new programmable themostat, because the old one that came with the house (ie. built in 1999) appeared to be faulty. i say this because on occassion my heat wouldn't turn off with this one too. I would sometimes have to remove the face plate and reconnect to get the heat or air to turn off. So I intalled a new one and all was fine for a few months until now. I have even taken the new thermostat off and the heat is still on. Is there a way to manually turn off the unit? I have tried cutting off the heat from the circuit box and still no success. I don't think this is just a heat issue but an over all unit issue not responding to the thermostat. Any ideas will be most helpful.

Thanks,
TD


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

Sound like you have heat sequencer stuck closed. You may need a pro on this one due to high voltage.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

Agreed. You will have a heat pump breaker for each unit,an electric element breaker for each and an air handler breaker for each so a total of 6 double breakers. I'd find the breakers to that one unit and shut it down for the weekend,no need for an emergency service call.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

There's a power plug in a box near the heat pump. If I remove the plug will this turn the heat off? Or do I have to turn it off on the unit in the attic?
If the problem turns out to be the heat sequencer how much should I expect to pay to have this repaired?
Lastly, I have a dual zone unit where the other thermostat is upstairs. If this works does that help me to narrow down the problem? 

Thanks,
T



Marty S. said:


> Agreed. You will have a heat pump breaker for each unit,an electric element breaker for each and an air handler breaker for each so a total of 6 double breakers. I'd find the breakers to that one unit and shut it down for the weekend,no need for an emergency service call.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

If the problem turns out to be the heat sequencer how much should I expect to pay to have this repaired? Its hard telling how much. We charge trip/ dig at 85.00 dollars then the part any were from 70.00 and up That includes labor.


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## Bigpapi08 (Feb 11, 2012)

ran into this problem a few weeks ago. sequencer will prob run you from a known ac company about 200 depending on how old the unit is. your strips might be bad so get them checked if its staying on turn off the circuit breaker. you mgiht be better off replacing if its old just opinion.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

Bigpapi08 said:


> ran into this problem a few weeks ago. sequencer will prob run you from a known ac company about 200 depending on how old the unit is. your strips might be bad so get them checked if its staying on turn off the circuit breaker. you mgiht be better off replacing if its old just opinion.


If you read post saying heat will not shut off. I think heat strips are not bad. Plus most case if heat strips had a break it will trip out breaker.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Had a heating and repair provider come out and everything checked out. Looks like the TSTAT is the culprit. I will change the TSTAT and see what happens.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

You eliminated the thermostat as the issue already,removed it and heat stayed on, so don't waste money on a third thermostat.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

How long was he there? Did you tell him heat was staying on even if the stat was off? I hate to say it he be back. I'm with Marty no need of a 3rd stat


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*just curious*

did the hvac company that came out swap in a new t-stat for you or just diagnose and bail? 

Is there a chance there is draft or gap in the wall where the t-stat is that is 'feeling' cool air behind it,

Are you sure the air blowing out at the registers is hot air and not just air recirculating from the house via the blower motor. 

you have a heat pump with aux heat strips, right or just a heat pump?

just curious if you have any of this info


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

You say in top post you had stat off and still not shut off. To me its not stat. Heat sequencer or bare t-stat wiring touching each other. That can be mouse in the wall chewing the wires but most the time low 5 amp fuse will blow


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Here are the steps the HVAC guy performed:

1. pulled the plug from the circuit box to the heating unit to power the system off.
2. ran test with volt meters and other testing tools to determine if there were any problems at the unit. no problems were detected.
3. checked to see if there was a signal from the tstat to the unit. no signal was detected.
4. checked outdoor heatpump units for problems. Other than a compacitor they will need to be changed in the future no problems were detected.
5. determined that it was the tstat. visually checked wiring and it looked correct. 
6. offered to replace tstat for $220 (u kidding me!!!).
7. HVAC guy left with unit still running and I told him I would try installing a new tstat to see what happens.
8. purchased a honeywell rth2410 at Lowes. 

I noticed that after the hvac guy left that the unit went off by itself after I adjusted the heat down on the old unit.
After purchasing the new tstat I powered the unit off from the circuit box and installed the new tstat. I turned the fan
on from the tstat and it responded immediately. However, the heat didn't come back on. It may be a wiring issue.
I will recheck the wires later and see if all is well. Btw, my unit is a carrier heatpump and the wire colors are:
red, green, yellow, white, orange, and black

The tstat has ports for Red(2 ports with a jumper wire connecting both ports) Green Yellow Orange Black White


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*t-stat*

should be a straightforward hook up. sometimes it is in the programming of the thing - reversing valve energized in cooling or heating - make sure it is set to a heat pump. If he saw the wiring was good then i would pull the face plate and look at Tator's idea of stripped wire touching. but you would need a few wires touching to make the whole show happen.

Just curious:

1. if the 2nd t-stat worked after the service guy took off how come you changed it again?

2.does the unit run alooooong time after satisfying temperature? so say you are set to 73degrees, does it go to 73 run forever or blow past that to say 75 (without you changing the t-stat setting) then shut off or just keep goin and goin and goin till you are sweating...and then you shut it off?

3.Does the unit take a long time to heat the house from say 65 to 70? Just wondering.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

@termal-medics

1. I wasn't really sure if it was the adjustment of the old t-stat to cause it to turn off because it was immediate. In the past as soon as I adjusted the temp down from the current/set temp it would shut off.

2. With the old t-stat in the past I programmed it to autom shut off/on at certian times and days. This seemed to be working fine until one day it just kept running and running with no way to shut it off from the t-stat.

3. My house has very high celilings and is not insullated properly so in the great room which is a open area it takes a while to get comfortable. However, in my bedroom the heat is almost instant.

I will play with this a little more after work today to see if I can get everything working right. I just want to make sure I have the wiring correct for the new t-stat. It's a little different than the previous one that the TECH said was wired correctly.


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*got it*

what I meant by 'programming' was after wiring the new thermostat did you have to internally program ( run thru menus etc) for the type of system you have (heat pump) and if the reversing valve is energized in cooling or heating. I was just curious on this as they can be confusing at times.

good luck and let us know how it comes out

one last ? when it says on and runs and runs (if you remember or if it happens again) is the air coming out of the reigsters, say in your room, hot/very warm or just room temperature-ish. that says a lot


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

6. offered to replace tstat for $220 (u kidding me!!!). YOU GOT TO REMEMBER WE DON'T DO IT FOR FREE ( u kidding me!!!)


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Tator1076 said:


> 6. offered to replace tstat for $220 (u kidding me!!!). YOU GOT TO REMEMBER WE DON'T DO IT FOR FREE ( u kidding me!!!)


It comes out very warm. No comment on the $220 t-stat install -lol

Thanks for the input.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If you have a heat pump with electric aux heat. unless you can lock out the aux heat, you should not be setting the temp back, as it can cause you to have a higher heating bill then you should.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Every since the heat went off two days ago I haven't been able to get it to come back on. So far I've tried the new t-stat and the old. Whether I turn it to Heat, Cool, or fan nothing happens and it's a simple wiring setup. I wonder if a fuse has blown? Any ideas would be most helpful? The last time the unit was on it shut off by itself. I really don't think me lowering the heat had anything to do with it turning off.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

maybe if u apologize to Tator1076, he will remove the hvac HEX from your equipment....:laughing:


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

There may be some truth to that - LOL


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*blahhhhhh*

at the tstat. Touch green and red bare wires together. No fan still? nada zip, nil???

Reset breakers on Air handler. do it again - still nada??

Open air handler look for 5a fuse if you wanna go down that road

Best case blown fuse - worst xfmr popped

all of this after you are sure you have eliminated wiring at t-stat, temp control, programming etc.

good luck

I like the $220 hex


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

thermal-medics said:


> at the tstat. Touch green and red bare wires together. No fan still? nada zip, nil???
> 
> Reset breakers on Air handler. do it again - still nada??
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I checked the red and green connection and nothing happened. I will check the air handler next. I know there is a circuit box (gray box w/ a black plug at the top) about 10 feet from the air handler. Is this the breaker you're referring to or is there another breaker on the air handler itself? I appreciate your expertise.


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*main breaker*

By touching the red and green you are just trying to confirm that you have 24volts still coming in to the thermostat, basically 'hot-wiring' your fan. You said nothing happened so that would take you next...

I was thinking of the main breaker at the box for the air handler - reset

longshot but try the red and green again together...

then if nothing:

The fuse I was refering to is (typically) in the air handler along with the transformer. If you are brave enough to dive in and look, this is where you will find the the suspects.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks. I'll look in the Air Handler tomorrow. I will just make sure the circuit breaker is off. I'll keep you updated. I'm hoping it's the 5a fuse. Luckily, it will be 78 degrees here tomorrow.


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

5amp fuse was blown in air handler. Replaced the fuse and unit and red to green kicks fan on. Hopefully, all will be fine when t-stat is installed. Thanks for all the help.


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## rsarg (Mar 2, 2012)

did you get it working correctly? typically the carrier/honeywell comination if you purchased a heat pump t-stat would be red to Rc jumpered to Rh green to G terminal(fan) orange to O/B (reversing valve) white to W2/aux jumpered to E emergency heat (heat strips) yellow to y/y2 (cooling) blue to C (common) this wiring is at the t-stat but could vary slightly with how the air handler and condenser wires are wired. so first check the colors that are wired to the condenser then the check that they match the wiring in the air handler then the t-stat


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Looks like I spoke prematurely. I haven't confirmed it yet, but I think the fuse blew again. I say this because I installed the t-stat and nothing turns on. 
I removed the t-stat and tried the GREEN to RED wire test again and this time no success. I will check the new fuse to confirmed that it's the problem,
but my guess it that it is. If the fuse has blown again is there something else I should check?

Thanks


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Hey tdsilk.....Tator is waiting to take away the HEX for a nominal fee


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Hilarious - lmao


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

looking back at Taters post on 2/28 about bare wires.... gotta be a grounded out wire (bare, touching something) or the way you are hooking up the tstat. Maybe shut off power to the air handler/transformer after changing fuse then hook up t stat and repower it up. pull a little wire from behind the tstat and check it out and also at the air handler where the t-stat wires enter/are.

snap


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

New development. Me and a friend have determined that when connecting the black wire to the "C" port on the t-stat it blows the 5amp fuse. 
Leaving this wire unconnected allow the system to run normal. At least so far... Any idea why the black wire is doing this? By the way, the
t-stat on my upstairs unit has the black wire connected. However, it's an old weather master t-stat.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

They aren't connected to the same length of stat cable are they?


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Fuse mystery solved. Either that or the hex has been lifted Appears that with this particular type (Honeywell RTHL2410) of t-stat
the black wire is not needed. It clearly (well maybe not clearly) states that if your old system used an "O" and "B" wire connect the "O" 
wire only. Tape the end of the "B" wire and do not connect. So far so good! The system has been running normal since last night. I also 
learned that my system prior to last night was running off aux heat. I say this because the heat pump would only turn on when the AC 
was on. Now the heat pump is running and the house heats up faster. Hopefully, this has fixed the problem and I would like to thank all who
offered assistance.

Troy


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## thermal-medics (Feb 11, 2012)

*whaaaaat?*

You mean all that drama because you didnt read the fine print????

Just messing around with you. Thats awesome, you probably learned a ton going through all of it. 


Im sure your feelin good, enjoy it, unitl the electric bill shows up...... you can put the $220 toward it maybe. 

good luck


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## tdsilk (Feb 24, 2012)

Yes, that was a day or two of drama with the new t-stat. What's funny is I work in tech support and often times run into problems customers could have
easily solved by reading the manual a little closer. I definitely have a better understanding about how the system works now.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

tdsilk said:


> Yes, that was a day or two of drama with the new t-stat. What's funny is I work in tech support and often times run into problems customers could have
> easily solved by reading the manual a little closer. I definitely have a better understanding about how the system works now.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

tdsilk said:


> Yes, that was a day or two of drama with the new t-stat. What's funny is I work in tech support and often times run into problems customers could have
> easily solved by reading the manual a little closer. I definitely have a better understanding about how the system works now.


I can top that. It took someone to come over and swap the input on one of co-worker's monitor. All day she sat there thinking it was shot.

The lcd screens we have are widescreens with two video inputs.


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