# Interesting Take on Green Building



## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

define green building.

good passive solar design and super-insulating walls/ceilings when building new is a good investment.

the techno-fix bs like grid tied solar is not financially viable without huge subsidies and doesn't save much if any fossil fuels due to fossil fuel power plants needing to be on standby for when it gets cloudy and the sun goes down. the impact of mining the materials to make solar panels as well as disposal can offset any minimal benefit.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

There is plenty here for both sides of any argument.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

One of the catch 22s of the green wave is a new building built with lots of air sealing and green insulation requires so little energy to heat or cool that expensive high efficiency mechanical systems are no longer needed.

One of the magazines coined the phrase "a pretty good house" and it targets affordable methods that do a good job towards being energy efficient.

Bud


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I was in Connecticut recently. I think Elmer Gantry was through there selling lightning rods, oops, I mean solar panels. I saw some facing east or west. Some actually facing north??

Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Define "is it worth it?". Additionally, do you mean for you to build your home to some such standard or to provide building services to others?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Some of the new green building ideas don't seem to be solving a problem and are causing a few new problems. Then the problem solving starts again but nobody will say let's just go back to what works.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Nealtw said:


> Some of the new green building ideas don't seem to be solving a problem and are causing a few new problems.


You think...
Here's a good article on solar. 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...hey-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#3135b25f121c


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> You think...
> Here's a good article on solar.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...hey-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#3135b25f121c



I was talking about tightening up houses so they can no longer breath.


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## BoBBuild (Aug 26, 2019)

I think I was a bit unclear when i said is it worth it. I've read an article that claims that going green should not really much more in comparison to the usual construction. One of the cited researches stated that green building concept should be adopted in the early stages of design in order to reduce costs.

I've also read a lot of articles that debate on the green building cost benefit analysis, so just wanted to know the opinion of the public as well


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BoBBuild said:


> I think I was a bit unclear when i said is it worth it. I've read an article that claims that going green should not really much more in comparison to the usual construction. One of the cited researches stated that green building concept should be adopted in the early stages of design in order to reduce costs.
> 
> I've also read a lot of articles that debate on the green building cost benefit analysis, so just wanted to know the opinion of the public as well


It depends on what you are talking about, much might be just changing products or procedures but if you want a garden on the roof, that would be a lot of structure.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I mentioned earlier the concept of a "pretty good house" so I did the search to see if anything new had been generated and yes it has. On my reading list so i haven't read this myself, but very familiar with the concept. here is the link:
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/pretty-good-house-2-0

Note, GBA is a great source for information.

Bud


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

BoBBuild said:


> I think I was a bit unclear when i said is it worth it. I've read an article that claims that going green should not really much more in comparison to the usual construction. One of the cited researches stated that green building concept should be adopted in the early stages of design in order to reduce costs.
> 
> I've also read a lot of articles that debate on the green building cost benefit analysis, so just wanted to know the opinion of the public as well



Sorry, but it's BIG field and your questions are too vague.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

rjniles said:


> ....solar panels. I saw some facing east or west.


Sometimes depends on your roof and possible shading.

West facing panels has some advantages. Peak output of the panels will be late in afternoon, which better coincides with peak demand on the utility. But total energy output will be less than South facing panels. We have time-of-use pricing up here, but price at noon is same as price at 5:00 PM, so no incentive to have panels facing West.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Nealtw said:


> I was talking about tightening up houses so they can no longer breath.


Modern houses don't breath, they leak.

Wall and exposed ceiling assemblies last longer when you don't have moisture laden indoor air moving through them resulting in condensation on cold surfaces.

I know there were major problems with mold/rot in the 70s and 80s when people started insulating without air sealing - the insulation makes the exterior surfaces colder yet the problems were blamed on making houses too tight.

Tight homes just need proper controlled ventilation - HRV/ERV or exhaust fans properly used. Even cracking open a window periodically is okay.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

user_12345a said:


> Modern houses don't breath, they leak.
> 
> Wall and exposed ceiling assemblies last longer when you don't have moisture laden indoor air moving through them resulting in condensation on cold surfaces.
> 
> ...


 Houses in the sixties started getting sheeted with plywood problems should up shortly after that, Up here they went with a required 1/2" space between sheets and a vapour bearer. Problems still showed up under windows, we were required to drill holes of a certain size for the size of the cavity. For twenty years were have been much with out a problem except for of coarse leaky windows which was solved with rainscreening the window. 

That is the breathing i was speaking of. 

Our newest code is to tape the joins in the sheeting and stop all air from inside and out, tighter than a drum. Just a few years into it we have poor air quality and mold problems. I don't know what is causing the problems but the fix for that so far is 2 fresh air vents into every room in the basement. You can imagine how long home owners will leave them open.


This from the same people that want to go to sealed crawl space.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

When the house is well sealed, mechanical ventilation is a must.

HRVs are best.

If the vents of a crawlspace are closed, the space must be heated in winter and if required, dehumidified in summer. A insulated, non-vented crawlspace works better than vented in humid climates.

The plywood probably wasn't drying properly. You have to have the drying potential - ie the exterior air barrier needs to be moisture permeable and the veneer needs to either allow for drying as well or have a air gap. (vinyl siding comes to mind)

In ontario, for many years now they've been using tyvec house-wrap as an air barrier and drainage plane.

Before that I believe it was-tar paper which can trap moisture in the framing.

When things are done right, a well sealed and proper ventilated house won't have problems with moisture and mold and will have superior air quality. 

Stopping air movement through insulated walls on the warm side and having drying potential to the outside prevents condensation, rot and mold.

https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/23818/Myth-A-House-Needs-to-Breathe


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## gthomson (Nov 13, 2016)

I started on an ambitious re-do of the inside of my house about 10 years ago.
Gutted a room - took out the walls and flooring, and started on running data cables, had electrical moved and added in various ways.
Really wanted to wait for something called EcoRock to use it for the walls instead of traditional drywall. Was supposed to be much more green/eco-friendly. So I waited... and waited...
Then budget problems hit state-wide in California. Furlough days at work. Finances went down the tubes.
Finally now, 10 years later, I'm looking to get back to doing that room again.
EcoRock still not available and not even a thing anymore.
I guess, in a sense, it's been a green room for 10 years - no materials went into doing anything with that room for 10 years.
But now I'm back looking... for ways to refinish it in ways that might be more green/environmentally friendly than traditional drywall, and what type of flooring/windows to go with. 
I think it's better to put some extra effort/dollars into trying to make it more eco/green-friendly. But this time won't be waiting for any new 'soon to be released' products, which may never actually end up being released.


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## jpenney (Jun 11, 2019)

The real cost of fossil fuels is completely hidden behind the "subsidy" of us having to send children to fight wars for oil and then do the shamefully little we do to take care of them when they come back in tatters. The less of that we have to do, the better I would think. So any fossil fuel you can omit from your building and energy generation the less oil we need to dig up. Even a gallon of heating oil replaced with woodgas is worth it. (solar not so much - see the other answers re: mining materials)





BoBBuild said:


> I've been into green building for a long time now and there is been a lot of debates regarding the financial aspect of this - is it worth it, in your opinion?


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