# can modern circuit breakers handle knob and tube?



## brons2 (Jan 25, 2010)

I would have been pissed enough just to find a hidden junction box. Those things are not supposed to be hidden behind walls.

I have no idea about your question though.


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

circuit breaker or fuse doesnt care what kind of wiring you have its rated full a certain load


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes they can handle it, as plummen said
I have seen new service installed
They will not run the K&T into the new panel

Instead they run romex from the panel to the K&T & splice it in
It should always be spliced in a junction box


----------



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The important thing is that the breaker be matched to the wire size regardless of wiring method. If the breaker ampacity is too large the wire may overheat and cause a fire before the breaker could trip.

Knob and tube is also not allowed to be used in thermal insulation.

Buried splices are a hazard and will make troubleshooting a royal pain.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The wall is open. Now is the time get rid of the K&T.


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I'd get rid of the K&T too

CA & Washington have reversed the no-insulation rule
Not sure about other states
PDF on K&T
http://www.creia.org/files/public/knob_tube_locked.pdf



> Since no fires related to insulation around knob-and-tube wiring had occurred in California, the Insulation Contractors Association (ICA) challenged this section of NEC. The California Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD), which is the state agency with authority to adapt the NEC in order to create the State Electrical Code, met with the ICA, Underwriter's Laboratory, the Electric and Gas Industries Association, the State Building Standards Committee, and the State Fire Marshall to review the Code. As a result of these meetings, on February 15, 1991, they amended the State Electrical Code. The amended code allows insulation that envelops knob-and- tube conductors as long as (among other things) a licensed electrical contractor certifies that the wiring is in good condition, and an appropriately sized fuse that cannot be altered is installed.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Get a kick out of this splice I just found:









Yes, you are seeing K&T spliced to romex, inside of a horizontal stud, topped off with drywall.

The romex is a whole 6 inches long, and is "capped" with electrical tape and string.

Lovely.


----------



## brons2 (Jan 25, 2010)

Wow, that is nuts. I just don't understand why people do that kind of stuff. You could be sued over it, if it causes a fire. The former owner in this case.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Here's a pic of the whole splice (I split the stud apart so I could free the wiring without taking apart the splice):


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

I cut the splice off and measured voltage. I'm only getting 16 volts off this knob and tube stuff. Anyone know what the hell that could mean?


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It means you are using a digital meter and there is probably actually no voltage there.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

joed said:


> It means you are using a digital meter and there is probably actually no voltage there.


I had around 0 when I cut power off to the room..Unless that old wiring is picking up something somehow. I don't know. Is there any other way to test it without sticking my fingers on it to see what happens?


----------



## juni1971 (Feb 26, 2010)

That splice is typical of remodeling contractors. Home owners hire them thinking they are getting qualified tradesmen. Truth is most of them hire jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none! I've seen and been hired to fix many of these problems.


----------



## David911 (Jan 30, 2010)

If you're measuring 16 volts AC, you might be looking at doorbell wiring. Put your meter on it while someone pushes the doorbell button and see if the voltage drops to or near 0 volts.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

David911 said:


> If you're measuring 16 volts AC, you might be looking at doorbell wiring. Put your meter on it while someone pushes the doorbell button and see if the voltage drops to or near 0 volts.


There are no doorbells on this house.


----------



## David911 (Jan 30, 2010)

Tonglebeak said:


> There are no doorbells on this house.


I suggested that because 16 volts AC is a very common doorbell transformer operating voltage. Is it possible that your house used to have a doorbell? I still suspect that due to the nature of the splice coming out of the 2x4. It just looks like a doorbell may have been mounted there at one time.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

David911 said:


> I suggested that because 16 volts AC is a very common doorbell transformer operating voltage. Is it possible that your house used to have a doorbell? I still suspect that due to the nature of the splice coming out of the 2x4. It just looks like a doorbell may have been mounted there at one time.


If I came off rude, I do apologize 

As far as I know, this interior wall was added on after the house was built. The reason is because there's 2 layers of hardwood on the floor: the original pine t&g, and then a second layer that looks newer. This wall was built on top of the newer (still old though) hardwood. I can't think of a reason to put a doorbell on an interior wall. Plus, the ceiling joists above are a true 2x6. I don't see why this wall could've housed a doorbell.

With that said though, one of the wires seems to be heading towards the front exterior wall...I may look into this further in a few minutes.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Bleh, it runs through more joists, and I don't have the drywall tore down yet (still got another couple hundred pounds to clean up).

I did just have a "duh" moment. I'm a cable tech, and duh, we have toners. The toners we have can do cable, phone, and I'm positive there are clips to do power as well (I've just never used them before). Perhaps I'll bring the toner home sometime this weekend and trace the wire.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Make sure the power is OFF. Those data cable toners will work but you must be sure the power is off. I have used them in the past to find a buried junction box with an open connection.

One point on forum picture posting. Post pictures that are 720 wide max. Your large 1200x1600 image is making the posts need to be scrolled sideways to read them.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, both wires seem to be going to a dead end (somewhere in the center of the ceiling. Perhaps there used to be a light there). With that said, it looks like one of the wires is spliced to another, but that very well may be a neutral.

So, with all of that said, is it possible I'm just reading neutral voltage? This time it was very sporadic before settling down to 20v AC.


----------



## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

LOL wow that is bad. Not only is it not in a junction box, but it was hidden.


----------



## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Red Squirrel said:


> LOL wow that is bad. Not only is it not in a junction box, but it was hidden.


Which is why I was pissed


----------

