# Steering quirk



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

People,

1987 sunbird GT, steering wheel is not straight/level when driving a straight road. A few years ago, when my mech did an alignment on it, he told me the car needed a new rod or something (cant remember the exact term), and he said it wouldnt affect my driving meaning the car was aligned but with a goody crooked steering wheel.

What is that front end part I need? I am planning to go back to him for a new alignment and wanted to supply him with the part, unless I can put it in myself then have him align it.

Thanks


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Tie rod likely. 

Car should be rack and pinion at that point and it is probably an outer tie rod end.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Windows on Wash said:


> Tie rod likely.
> 
> Car should be rack and pinion at that point and it is probably an outer tie rod end.


Right, Window!! That was it! So, I can buy one and try to pop itr in, but any idea how this could happen? Im the original owner. Why /how could a tie rod "shrink" over the years causing the steering wheel to be 'crooked"? What happened?

Outer tie rod is basically a ball joint with a bolt to screw in/out. Could that cause steering wheel to sit so far off? I mean, say, the top (12 oclock point) of a correctly placed steering wheel is at 2 oclock. Could bad outer tie rod end cause that?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Quacks: Have you ever had a curb crunch, accidently?
Or maybe hit a pot hole too hard? Or a rock in the road, or any other foreign object.

Are you the only one that has driven it?

A teenage girl maybe?


ED


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Bearings wear out. 

The wheel should still have been centered if the tie rod was bad though if he aligned it.

If one is bad, they usually are both bad. Replace them and take it to a shop to have it aligned.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm not going to elaborate too much because I've seen some of your past posts, so know you're a smart guy and can figure it out. But take a look at the tie rod ends, then google "pickle fork"; you may need one to get your old ones out. It might be something that you could rent even, but doubt that it would break the bank to buy one. Once you get the joint loose, don't move the steering wheel or the wheel. You want to adjust the new one to fit before bolting it in place. You still need an alignment once you're done, but you'll be close enough to get it there safely.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

One usually doesn't appreciate how important good steering components are until he sees a station wagon coming toward him, loaded with a few kids and female driver trying to control the vehicle at a low speed of approx. 40 MPH with a front wheel flopping one way then another. It's kind of like the squirrel, which way should I go next to avoid a collision.

Please quit screwing around with it and get it fixed by a professional, even though a reputable front end shop is as scarce as hen's teeth.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Thanks, fellow members. I intend to have the mech do the alignment. Just wanted to have fun installing a rod or whatever. But I dont screw around, senior. Never have on this car, thats why its still around, with original clutch, with original owner, with almost 200,000 miles on it, never an engine/gearbox rebuild, and the other sunbirds are now extinct.

Cant remember if I ever hit a pot hole in 29 years, but never any young woman, thats for sure (dang). 

Anyway, maybe best to just drop it off the mechanic, and have him decide what to replace, probably like windows said, the tie rod, and then align. 

Thanks for all the fast replies, and continued support for my threads, people.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Alexander Pope: [a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing] 

*******************************************************
Possibly never more truth in this instance because steering component well being is in a different category than transmissions and general maintenance etc.. Their failure can kill.

I apologize for screwing around with this.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Alexander Pope: [a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing]
> 
> *******************************************************
> Possibly never more truth in this instance because steering component well being is in a different category than transmissions and general maintenance etc.. Their failure can kill.
> ...


I will attest to the fact that bad steering components can kill.

In 1977 I bought a used Buick GRAN SPORT from a buddy, 

The first week that I owned it the upper right ball joint snapped, while I was driving too fast, I tried to shut down, but the car was suddenly sliding sideways at a very high speed.

I hit a bridge abutment sideways, crushed the passenger compartment to a little over 2 feet wide, broke the front uni-body from the rest of the car.

Tore my right leg 1/3 off my body, spent the next 6 weeks in the hospital, before they let me go.

The investigating officer estimated that I was still moving at 85 MPH when I hit the bridge.

Got my driving privilege revoked, 


Anyway get that car to a professional ASAP.

You should have had it replaced before, but I understand about wanting to save money, but a little money spent now, will save thousands later, not to mention blood loss.


ED


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

You were ripped off and should find a new mechanic. Why in the world would he charge you to align a car with a bad part?


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## WhatRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

47_47 said:


> You were ripped off and should find a new mechanic. Why in the world would he charge you to align a car with a bad part?


X2..and a car cannot be aligned properly with worn parts, out of high school I worked at a tire place and did alignments..the readings would constantly change as the worn part moved around...


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

As long as it's not a very bad part, as in very little slack, it can be aligned somewhat. It's not the best and won't hold the alignment, it will at least stop the wear and drive better. I've aligned vehicles for decades. You learn what works and what doesn't. But yet, you need to fix it as it doesn't get better.:vs_coffee:


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

I agree with you brain bucket on the tolerances I also know the tech can miss a worn / bent part on inspection, but to complete a service, let a car go needing a part is a disservice to the customer.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

47_47 said:


> I agree with you brain bucket on the tolerances I also know the tech can miss a worn / bent part on inspection, but to complete a service, let a car go needing a part is a disservice to the customer.


I agree that the tech was lax in his duty servicing this.

But when the customer refuses to buy the replacement part, there is not much a tech can do after that, but buy the part themselves. 

And I have noticed in the last ten years that the techs only want to get the job done, in half the time of what is required, and move on. 

Before anybody gets in a gripe mode, I am A S E certified myself, and have been on both ends of these types of situations. 

So I have 40 years experience on this topic.


ED


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## Arky217 (Aug 18, 2010)

noquacks said:


> People,
> 
> 1987 sunbird GT, *steering wheel is not straight/level when driving a straight road*. A few years ago, when my mech did an alignment on it, he told me the car needed a new rod or something (cant remember the exact term), and he said it wouldnt affect my driving meaning the car was aligned but with a goody crooked steering wheel.
> 
> ...



Here is a tip that even a lot of front end alignment techs don't know.

Have you ever followed, say an old pickup, down the road
and noticed that it seemed to be going slightly sideways
(not directly pointing straight head) ?

Well, when most techs set the toe-in on a vehicle,
they sight or align the front wheels with the rear wheels
and adjust whichever tie rod that will make the sighting
or alignment equal toward the rear wheels
when the steering wheel is straight.

But, what a lot of techs don't take into account is that on some vehicles,
(at least that was the case in the 60's and 70's)
the axis of the rear wheels is not exactly parallel
to the axis of the front wheels.

So, when this is the case, even though the steering wheel is centered
and the front wheels are pointing the same toward the rear wheels,
when actually driving straight down the road,
the steering wheel is going to be slightly off level to compensate for this.

Now, this condition may be rare in today's vehicles, I don't really know,
and maybe today's alignment machines allow for this,
but when I was aligning vehicles in the 60's and 70's,
it was fairly common that front and rear axis weren't exactly parallel.

So, to have the customer happy that the steering wheel was straight
when driving straight on the road, I compensated for this by:

First, turn the front wheels so that they are pointing equally
toward the rear wheels.
Then go to the back of the vehicle and see if the rear wheels
are pointing equally towards the front wheels. 
If they are not, then the rear axis is not parallel with the front
and you then need to adjust whichever tie rod
that will not only give the right toe-in,
but will also result in the steering wheel being straight
when the rear wheels are tracking the front wheels.
It's your best estimate, of course,
but after a while you learn to get it exact on the first try.

Arky


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Sorry for late reply, but:

1) The car IS aligned, drives straight, does not "pull".
2) Is has been holding the alignment for about 5 years. 
3) The mech has an overall good reputation, and Im not about to second guess his expertise on a whim/judgement call. Its so easy/common for mechs to get berated.

It's just that I wanted to learn about the part that I might need to straighten the steering wheel, thats all. Purely aesthetics, at this point. 

Safety? No one is safe upon entering any car/suv/whatever. Just SAFER, not safe than otherwise. I agree with members here that a car should have integrity, and mine does. Has for 29 years.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

The only way to know what part you need on your car is to have your front end checked by your mechanic. He will be able to see and tell you what is bad/good. Sometimes it is hard to get a steering wheel straight when aligning a vehicle the older they get. A good alignment tech can tell if the vehicle is not straight by the readings from the machine. But if you keep at it, it will happen. Been aligning vehicles for 38 years. I was trained by Hunter and been going ever since. Also went to MOOG school. (God that was a long time ago.) Remember the John Beam 'bullet' aligner? You would burn your arm on those things back in the day....:vs_coffee:


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