# no permit replumb?



## hal74 (Nov 7, 2011)

i'm planning to do a replumb and was wondering what issues i may run into down the road.

in particular, if i pull a permit later for some other work, call an inspector in, and they happen to figure out that i didn't pull a permit when i did the replumb, are they going to make me rip it out?

also what implications does it have when i sell the house?

i live in florida.

thanks in advance.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

hal74 said:


> i'm planning to do a replumb and was wondering what issues i may run into down the road.
> 
> in particular, if i pull a permit later for some other work, call an inspector in, and they happen to figure out that i didn't pull a permit when i did the replumb, are they going to make me rip it out?
> 
> ...


You've got to check local codes on this one. There are just too many variables, by municipality, to give a blanket answer.

Generally, if you don't pull a permit for something you should have, you will - at best - get snagged if/when you go to sell the house.


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## hal74 (Nov 7, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> Generally, if you don't pull a permit for something you should have, you will - at best - get snagged if/when you go to sell the house.


and is this a legal code enforcement kind of snag or having to negotiate with the buyer?


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

hal74 said:


> and is this a legal code enforcement kind of snag or having to negotiate with the buyer?


I can't say for sure. I've never encountered it when I've bought or sold.

Again, I'd recommend checking into local codes. It's all a guessing game without doing that.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

DrHicks said:


> I can't say for sure. I've never encountered it when I've bought or sold.


Me either. I've owned ten houses over the years, and remodeled some portion of every one of them. Other than for a chimney, I've never pulled a permit for anything. Nary a problem selling any of the houses. 

When I bought some of these houses, I knew they contained what had to be unpermitted work because it was shoddy and incorrectly done. But I didn't care - it was stuff I planned to gut and replace anyway.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Hmmmm.... fine line between repair and replumb....

DM


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## hayduke (Nov 8, 2011)

DangerMouse said:


> Hmmmm.... fine line between repair and replumb....
> 
> DM


I like that answer as I contemplate a similar project. I guess I'm not "replumbing" my house. I'm just repairing one half of it. As long as I leave some of the old pipes in, it's not a replumb, right? LOL :wink:


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

It kind of boils down to this.....

You go to sell the house....one of the selling points "All new plumbing." Ok...buyer is happy...buys the house....but another potential buyer might go down and check to see what permits were pulled. If non for the plumbing....they now have their "get out of contract" card....or, they negotiate you down on the price.

As a buyer....are you going to want to buy a house that had that much done without permits? How do you know it was done right? Go read some of the posts here....a lot of them have to do with new home buyers finding hack work done by previous owners who obviously did not pull permits....

If you never intend to sell the house....it's your home...do what you want.

But if you plan to sell any time soon...save some money and pull permits....you'll save it on the sell and any re-inspection fees that could crop up if you have to do permits after the fact.


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## forresth (Feb 19, 2010)

I have repaired half of my plumbing already, and the other half is will happen sooner or later. I am quite sure what I put in is better than what I took out, and most importantly, it doesn't leak :thumbsup:

PEX makes supply plumbing easy. I think I've done about 40 connections now and not a drop of water were I didn't want it with them. Drains are a bit harder, but still not bad. Dealing with traps, runs and drain sizing is is probably were you are most likely to run into troubles.


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## iminaquagmire (Jul 10, 2010)

I would be less worried about what happens down the road when you sell the house and more what happens if you were to have a flood, fire, or some other catastrophe. I can guarantee your insurance will look for permits before paying out on anything even remotely questionable as to a cause.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

What are you replumbing exactly?
In my area, if you move pipes you need a permit.


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

iminaquagmire said:


> I would be less worried about what happens down the road when you sell the house and more what happens if you were to have a flood, fire, or some other catastrophe. I can guarantee your insurance will look for permits before paying out on anything even remotely questionable as to a cause.


please cite just ONE example of this. 

I have never heard of or seen this happen. ( I am referring to PROPER work, done without permits....not substandard work that led to a loss).

Permits do not exist for insurance reasons AT ALL. they serve ONLY 2 purposes: Tax collection, public safety (mrs. oleary's cow).


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

jcrack_corn said:


> Permits do not exist for insurance reasons AT ALL. they serve ONLY 2 purposes: Tax collection, public safety (mrs. oleary's cow).


With heavy emphasis on purpose number 1. I had to get a permit and inspection (almost $100) for my pre-manufactured Amish garden shed that has no utilities and just sits on the ground. I struggle to see any public safety implications there.

Just one of the reasons I avoid permits whenever possible.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

md2lgyk said:


> With heavy emphasis on purpose number 1. I had to get a permit and inspection (almost $100) for my pre-manufactured Amish garden shed that has no utilities and just sits on the ground. I struggle to see any public safety implications there.
> 
> Just one of the reasons I avoid permits whenever possible.


The Amish get $90.00 of that permit fee. They have they're fingers in a lot of pies. Don't let the hats, beards and horses fool you.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> The Amish get $90.00 of that permit fee. They have they're fingers in a lot of pies. Don't let the hats, beards and horses fool you.


Can you clarify that, because that seems pretty far-fetched. 

I'm not chiming in, supporting the Amish, but I doubt that the permit fee changes due to who is providing something.


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

here the permit is to be sure you properly tied it down.

No body gets permits here and nobody ties them down,,,just a fact of life. I have same question on replacing galvinized with pex, Plumbers do a lousy job,,,have to fix the last botched pro job,

Nobody gets permits here and selling the house permits are a non issue like elsewhere on the coasts. So do I need a permit to pex a house??? I like other poster have used pex in other apps without that proverbial first drip


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

DrHicks said:


> Can you clarify that, because that seems pretty far-fetched.
> 
> I'm not chiming in, supporting the Amish, but I doubt that the permit fee changes due to who is providing something.


It's a joke, man.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

md2lgyk said:


> It's a joke, man.


Okey Dokey. My lack of early-morning coffee was obviously showing!


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

There are two major issues with un-permitted work: safety, and potential requirement to upgrade previously done work to standards satisfactory to the local "Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), which is usually the local building department.

Safety issues are most likely to be raised by homeowner modifications to electrical and heating systems, but can involve almost any aspect of the building, for example I frequently see incorrect attachments of homeowner built decks to houses, and failure of such attachments is by far the most common cause of deck and porch collapses.

The second problem includes the fact that responsibility to correct un-permitted work falls upon the current owner of a property, even if they are not the ones who did the work, or had done. Also, the AHJ may require that work be brought up not only to the standard required at the time the work was done, but to current standards, which are sometimes more stringent and more expensive to meet.

So if (for example) 10 years ago your next door neighbor pulled a permit and had an new electrical service panel installed, and the same week previous owner of your house took up an electrician on his offer to "save them some money" by installing a similar panel without a permit, and the AHJ becomes aware of the fact, your neighbor's panel can remain as is, but if the AHJ is enforcing the latest version of the electrical code, they may require you to install an expensive arc fault interrupter circuit breakers on every 120V outlet circuit.

For this reason whenever I spot potential un-permitted work at home inspection (which is often possible), I recommend my clients do a permit search (these are public records) with regard to the suspect work, unless the permit clerk is asleep at the switch they are likely to ask why the search is being done, and it's possible a local inspector will come knocking on the seller's door.
_______________

I’m paid to be suspicious…


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

^^ I am sure that you are an honest, above-the board, and exceptional inspector. But honestly, my experience with several inspectors has been less than stellar. Not all of them, mind you, but several.


For instance, a couple years ago one of my sons was trying to buy a house in Minneapolis. It became immediately apparent that the first priority of the "inspector" was to make sure that he had to come back and re-inspect the house at least once, each time charging an extra $400 per visit. In the end, the bozo help up the closing by almost 2 months.

He flagged such public menaces as a torn screen on a couple windows. But he somehow failed to notice a (literally) 2 square foot hole in the roof, even though there was serious water damage in the dining room immediately beneath it. He failed to notice that the front entry door was missing the dead-bolt. He failed to notice that the kitchen sink drain was plumbed incorrectly, and was leaking. He failed to notice that the block wall was COVERED with mold behind one "finished" basement wall. He failed to notice that all the gutters on the house drained away from the down spouts - but by god he caught and flagged the chipped paint on one of them! 

I could go on... Needless to say, I reported him. And needless to say, I don't have a very high view of inspectors. Unfortunately, too many of our bad biases spill over onto good inspectors like you.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Less than competent inspectors are a very real problem.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

DrHicks said:


> Can you clarify that, because that seems pretty far-fetched.
> 
> I'm not chiming in, supporting the Amish, but I doubt that the permit fee changes due to who is providing something.


The Amish are worse then the Mafia. They wait in hiding behind the billboards and then run you down with their carraiges. 
Honest.:whistling2:


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> Less than competent inspectors are a very real problem.


So... On a practical basis, what can be done about it?

Where I used to live in Minnesota, the building inspector (granted, this is a little different job) was known by everybody as a capricious pain in the butt. On one job he'd make them tear out all the drywall simply because they had 1 or 2 too few screws per sheet. On the next job he might not even look at the drywall. It was crazy. Everyone despised the guy, and did their best to not have to deal with him. And THAT led to lots of people simply refusing to pull permits.

Is there some positive and productive way to deal with that kind of nonsense?


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> The Amish are worse then the Mafia. They wait in hiding behind the billboards and then run you down with their carraiges.
> Honest.:whistling2:


Smarta**! :laughing:

Man, I need to get a little coffee in the veins and read more closely, before I post stuff on here at 6:00 AM!


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

Michael Thomas said:


> There are two major issues with un-permitted work: safety, and potential requirement to upgrade previously done work to standards satisfactory to the local "Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), which is usually the local building department.
> 
> Safety issues are most likely to be raised by homeowner modifications to electrical and heating systems, but can involve almost any aspect of the building, for example I frequently see incorrect attachments of homeowner built decks to houses, and failure of such attachments is by far the most common cause of deck and porch collapses.
> 
> ...


boy they really have you drinking the kool-aid.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

jcrack_corn said:


> boy they really have you drinking the kool-aid.


I have a really, really large collection of photographs of the actually hazardous defects I have encountered as a result of incompetent work, some of it permitted, some of it not - things like furnaces and hot water heaters venting directly into attics, second-floor doors in children's bedrooms that open to the exterior with nothing below them, garages converted into bedrooms with haphazard wiring and inadequate provision for emergency egress, limestone copings atop parapet walls which are incorrectly installed, have come loose, have been moved by the wind, and ready to fall several stories onto the sidewalk below, deck and ledgers which are being held in place by a few partially withdrawn nails, porches with floors which have been tiled, resulting in a doubling or tripling of their weight, with failing ledger attachments and supports... the list goes on and on, as the saying goes "the difference between genius and stupidity is that even the greatest genius has its limits".

There is no guarantee that overworked municipal inspectors are going to catch this stuff, but it certainly improves your chances.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

jcrack_corn said:


> please cite just ONE example of this.
> 
> I have never heard of or seen this happen. ( I am referring to PROPER work, done without permits....not substandard work that led to a loss).
> 
> Permits do not exist for insurance reasons AT ALL. they serve ONLY 2 purposes: Tax collection, public safety (mrs. oleary's cow).


The insurance company is unlikely to become aware of such a situation unless there's a substantial loss, however when such losses occur, insurance companies have been known to deny coverage.

________________

At for the likelihood that an AHJ will make you remove or correct non- permitted work, I think this varies quite a bit by location.

I can tell you that's a very real possibility here, a few years ago, at the property across the street, the city made the owner tear down an un-permitted two-story garage because the foundation had been poured 6 inches too close to the adjacent lot line (the neighbor had called the city in the first place, as a result of some dispute between them).

The owner did rebuild, but he had to knock out the foundation wall on the side adjacent lot line, pour a new wall at required setback, and then rebuild a smaller garage on the reduced side foundation.

____________________

Somewhere up thread somebody says that a building inspector required a drywall tear-out because the drywall didn't meet the nailing schedule. 

I strongly suspect that there's more to the story than we are hearing, because it should have been possible to add additional nails or screws if required - when I see an AHJ demand this, it's usually because no pre-drywall inspection of the plumbing and electrical had been performed.


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

*local inspectors are knotheads*

Here are a couple of examples of failure to 'think' power proving trips of inspectors. IF common sense was employed and the principle of rounding or averaging ,,,,at least IF it was public safety at stake,,,I understand,,,these I am not so sure altho my professional carpenter screwed it up,,,,and I got to tear it ALL out and redo it.

You tell me what did the following have to do with health and safety???

1. first was bath had 14 and 1/2 inches on each side of center of stool to wall,,,,so required to tear out whole walls of bathroom and reframe etc to provide NEEDED 15" on each side of center.(now if someones fanny fits in 15" it will fit somehow in 14 1/2 OR dont rent my house,,,find a bathroom with 8 FOOT of fanny space!!!!.

2. Pro carpenter botched steps to new basement badly. Had 6" rise and 9" rise on same steps,,,,I get that needs changed,,,cause it makes me,,an old fart,, trip going up and down,,,it WAS bad!!! Side wall to stairs 2 to 3 " out of plumb,,,I get that,,,just not right, needs fixed. 

BUT here is the zinger. the TOP of the stairs was framed at 36 and 5/8",,,so that IF I put half inch drywall on both walls I dont have 36" minimum ,,,,by a whooping 3/8"(on top only)( bottom of stairs okay),,,result have to tear them 'all' out and rebuild,,,its done now but took substantial time and expense. How did he know I wasnt using 1/4" paneling on each side,,,and still have 36" space????

Overzealous,,,definitly. Give me a 'what are you thinking and a health and safety reason and I would go to end of earth to comply,,,but use the excuse of the permit to 'inspect' ALL facets of a house and requiring ALL compliance with new code just because one little remodel change permit. They use any excuse to get into a pre 1970's house with the intent to condem it and get it torn down. They WANT all 80's and newer houses in town only!!!! THAT gets my ire roused!!!!! So result is no body gets permits if they can help it!!!!Sometimes even the pros who know better


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

4just1don said:


> Here are a couple of examples of failure to 'think' power proving trips of inspectors. IF common sense was employed and the principle of rounding or averaging ,,,,at least IF it was public safety at stake,,,I understand,,,these I am not so sure altho my professional carpenter screwed it up,,,,and I got to tear it ALL out and redo it.
> 
> You tell me what did the following have to do with health and safety???
> 
> ...


First, you need understand that I'm a private inspector ("Home Inspector") not a municipal inspector, and unlike some home inspectors I don't think of my job as power a trip. I would agree that property inspection in general, and especially code inspections by the local authority having jurisdiction, has a tendency to attract "authoritarian" personalities, and that some of them can be pretty arbitrary as well, and there are indeed some home inspectors of this type - and one of the paradoxes is that this kind of personality is often coupled with an obsessive attention to detail, and that one thing that you_ do_ want in an inspector (at least if you want a comprehensive list of everything that's wrong with a property).

I report dozens of defects at a typical inspection, I know my clients have only a limited amount of money correct them if they choose to buy the property, and I try and do everything I can to ensure that those repairs are going to be prioritized so that significant health and safety issues are at the top of the list - if nothing else, I would like to limit my liability even if my clients priorities are different from those that I think a reasonable. And as the longer you do this job the better you get at it (at least under terms of your ability to identify defects) you were going to this awful lot of real estate agents, sellers, and occasionally even buyers would prefer not to know what they're buying.

-----------

As for your stair inspection, I think I can make a reasonable guess as to what was going through the inspector's mind when he saw a newly constructed staircase with walls 3" out of plumb and a 3" variation in rise: 

"Oh man, THIS **** again.

"Pro carpenter" my ***... what Bozo built these POS stairs?"!

Or that at least I know some version of that is going through my mind (but not between my lips) what I encounter this sort of stuff - for starters I'm really torqued off that some incompetent jackass had the nerve to take a homeowners money to do this sort of work, because I know that either he doesn't even realize how bad the work is, or even worse in the back of his mind is the conviction that "It's good enough for who it was done for".

So of course the AHJ is going to demand that staircase be torn out, and that while you are at it, it be done to code.

Now, what's "to code"?

If you hire me to attempt to to work with the building department to get this stairway into compliance, I'm going to try and get them to be reasonable - which may or may not be possible.

For example the code does not have a requirement for the clear with width between the staircase _framing_, what it does have is a requirement (R311.5.1) for the clear width of the _finished_ stairwell, which in turn is going to be determined by the clear width between code compliant framing at each side of the stairwell.

So if the rest of the stairwell framing is compliant, it may be possible to get the AHJ to allow the use of .25" drywall to provide the required minimum 36 inch clear width between the finished surfaces on each side of the stairwell.

However... if the walls of the stairwell are already "2 to 3 inches out of plumb" (!), that framing is going to have to go, and the AHJ may "require" that the clear width between the framing allows for .50" drywall - and may well feel that they are doing you a favor by "enforcing" this (nonexistent, as far as the code is concerned) "requirement" so that the next "pro carpenter" will not screw up in the same way!

As for the clearance on either side of the toilet, the ability to get the AHJ to accept a lesser clearance is going to depend on their subjective judgment.

.0625" (1/16)... well, that's almost a "measurement error", and there's a pretty good chance you could get them to live with that. .25"? or more, Then you get into the situation of "OK, how much error do you expect me to accept? I have to draw the line _somewhere_, you know."

And if you think they're just being a jerk about it, remember that every day they talking to contractors and homeowners who are telling them that stuff like the installation below is "good enough" - and that this tends to get a little.... "annoying"... after about the hundredth time:


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> Somewhere up thread somebody says that a building inspector required a drywall tear-out because the drywall didn't meet the nailing schedule.
> 
> I strongly suspect that there's more to the story than we are hearing, because it should have been possible to add additional nails or screws if required - when I see an AHJ demand this, it's usually because no pre-drywall inspection of the plumbing and electrical had been performed.


I'm the one who mentioned that, and did so because it's true.

As with most professions, some home inspectors are complete dicks. Obviously not all, but some.


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## hal74 (Nov 7, 2011)

i think we're digressing here. i'm basically ripping out 25y/o copper pipes and replacing it with PEX-a with a valved central manifold. i've studied the 2009 IPC and the only thing i've found that helps in terms of code compliance is spacing of tie-downs: 32" horizontal, midpoint of story for vertical. also any PEX connections need to be at least 18" from the water heater and water heater cold water supply needs a shut-off valve.

2 big questions i have are (1) what are the approved methods to bring the 3/4" PVC main water pipe up to the attic, and (2) what are the approved methods to pull the PEX through the ceiling from the central manifold?

i'd like to keep it simple and just run the 3/4" PVC up the side of the house and into the attic tied down however often code requires, but a plumber i called to get a quote said they'd actually pull the pipe through the concrete blocks. is this required by 2009 IPC or IRC? does PEX need to be sleeved when pulled through concrete block?

i know code says cold and hot PEX should be bundled separately. what i didn't find any mention of is what approved methods are of passing the (many) PEX lines from the central manifold through the ceiling without violating some kind of structural/building code about how ceilings and walls should abut.

can anyone point me in the right direction as far as where in the 2009 IPC or IRC or IBC or IMC i should be looking?


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

DrHicks said:


> I'm the one who mentioned that, and did so because it's true.


Did the inspector give a reason why additional fasteners could not be added to achieve compliance with the nailing schedule?


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> Did the inspector give a reason why additional fasteners could not be added to achieve compliance with the nailing schedule?


Because then they wouldn't have been correctly spaced. "Code says the drywall screws are to be spaced 8" on walls and 6" on ceilings."

Yes, the guy really was/is that much of a dick.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

DrHicks said:


> Because then they wouldn't have been correctly spaced. "Code says the drywall screws are to be spaced 8" on walls and 6" on ceilings."
> 
> Yes, the guy really was/is that much of a dick.


This is the sort of situation where I ask for a meeting with the inspector and his supervisor:

"IMO the code specifies the _minimum_ spacing, but does not prohibit additional fasteners. If the edge of a panel was 7-3/4 from the ceiling or floor, would you prohibit a fastener 1" from the panel edge?"

Might work, might not, but it can be very effective to politely ask an AHJ to explain their logic in a case like this, especially if you can give a contra-example. 

Of course, sometimes the code official effectively has no supervision, and you are just stuck.

That's why the worst actual corruption I've encountered has been at small AHJ's in rural areas, these people can be far more blatant that even a corrupt inspector here in Chicago, because the only people in a position interfere are their pals - at least here in Chicago the inspectors have to fear the occasional Federal \corruption investigation. The Feds are never going to bother with Oceana County MI, which (at least 25 years ago) was the most blatantly corrupt AHJ I ever had to deal with.


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## hal74 (Nov 7, 2011)

i'm not sure how this thread got hijacked to become a discussion of inspectors, but i sure would like to get some advice as to where to look for relevant sections of 2009 international plumbing code or 2009 international residential code that tells me:

(1) approved methods for bringing 3/4" PVC water main into the attic and/or through an exterior concrete block wall;

and (2) approved methods for running multiple 1/2" PEX from the central manifold along the wall and through the ceiling into the attic.


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## TGMcCallie (Nov 12, 2011)

As a homeowner, I have not done any plumbing with PEX but have done some with regular galvinized. I have run the yellow poly poipe 3/4 inch from my 3/4 inch galv. pool heater line to my outdoor kitchen and did not have a problem. I used a riser to go under the ground and all compression fittings.

I know I was quoted 1200 dollars from a company that sold me the appliances and I got on line and by asking questions and reading on the internet I did a fine job. The piping was cheap. The only problem I had to buy 100 foot roll but it was like only 30.00 for the whole roll. The fittings were very expensive but I ended up doing this for less than 300.00.

I had a quote just yesterday in fact from the plumber that connected up the gas to my 17 KW emergency generator and he just asked me how many baths and sinks, washer etc. I had. He said he would do it for 3,000.00. That sounded high to me as I remembered how inexpensive the 3/4 inch poly was I had used for the outdoor kitchenl.

I guess I will be getting more estimates.

As far as permits, I would require the plumber that does it for me to get a permit, even though I could get by without it but I want to make sure this job is done correctly so I don't have problems down the road.

Tom


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

TGMcCallie said:


> I had a quote just yesterday in fact from the plumber that connected up the gas to my 17 KW emergency generator and he just asked me how many baths and sinks, washer etc. I had.
> Tom


What's the relationship of the bath fixtures to the estimate for running the gas to the generator?


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## TGMcCallie (Nov 12, 2011)

The gas hook up price was in the contract for the electric company to install my generator. I was talking to the plumbing man who then gave me the 3000.00 estimate to change over the galvinized household plumbing to PEX.

Two seperate things.


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## turbo4 (Jan 30, 2021)

Around here rarely does the Code officer ever come out and look at the job so im assuming the permit is just for the money.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

turbo4 said:


> Around here rarely does the Code officer ever come out and look at the job so im assuming the permit is just for the money.


Hopefully this problem has been resolved—with or without the permitting agency—sometime in the last decade.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Sorry did not realize old post. Perhaps we should lock out post?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> The insurance company is unlikely to become aware of such a situation unless there's a substantial loss, however when such losses occur, insurance companies have been known to deny coverage.
> 
> *____*
> 
> ...


"*At for the likelihood that an AHJ will make you remove or correct non- permitted work, I think this varies quite a bit by location."

YES, *as to Michael Thomas's comment. 

*But I'm interested in others geographical experience (not conjecture) in this regard. Obviously my experience is limited to just a few municipalitys.*

My experience....

*Very seldom *have I run into a municipality either 1) catching a non-permited job upon sale or 2) requiring a further repair upon sale.

Tiburon CA is an exception. They require a CITY BO inspection upon all sales. They will check the property against their records, and charge a double permit fee for unpermitted work, and require correction for many faults. They expense of such becomes a negotiating issue between buyer seller,...and can be quite significant.....many people have expanded their home by building out the garage/etc.

Arvada CO attempted the same legislation in the late 90's or early 2000's....and it created such a RE and citizen uproar they recinded such "policy/practce."

Now a buyers interest in checking prior permitting is a mixed bag. In general, I would guess that maybe less than 1/3 buyers research the permitting on a home.....but good RE buyers agents will often suggest such where properties appaer to be questionable.

*What are others actual experience, and not just conjecture*.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

ddddd


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Ghostmaker said:


> ddddd


 ????????

Ghost....What is your jurisdictions practice/policy in regard to inspections upon sale.?


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Tiburon CA is an exception. They require a CITY BO inspection upon all sales.


yes and no.
Every city or town in Marin county has a similar ordinance requiring a resale inspection. As far as I know, the county still doesn’t have a similar requirement.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> ????????
> 
> Ghost....What is your jurisdictions practice/policy in regard to inspections upon sale.?


We don't, I live in a non Democrat area. But a buyer can hire us to do a presale inspection, and I do let them know of any illegal plumbing.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Oso954 said:


> yes and no.
> Every city or town in Marin county has a similar ordinance requiring a resale inspection. As far as I know, the county still doesn’t have a similar requirement.


 Thanks OSO....Did not realize that....does not surprize me,....of course my only experience there was at my daughters.

Wonder if other people/contractors/members have seen that required "code and permit" municipal inspection in other parts of the country.


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## turbo4 (Jan 30, 2021)

Some of the permitting is way out of hand. One small town nearby Cost 3 times the price of a water heater just for the permits for it and the numerous inspections.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

turbo4 said:


> Some of the permitting is way out of hand. One small town nearby Cost 3 times the price of a water heater just for the permits for it and the numerous inspections.


Our hot water tank permit is 50 bucks.


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## turbo4 (Jan 30, 2021)

Ghostmaker said:


> Our hot water tank permit is 50 bucks.


Usually depends on how many inspections. Where i live they dont come out at all. 40 minutes up the road and its 4 or 5 inspections for 1 job.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

In my personal residence I don’t get a permit for anything that I can do out of sight behind closed doors. Whether you get a permit depends on your confidence level that you can do it right without having other eyes look at it. If I were a buyer I would look for permits as the basis for getting a lower price. I have studied codes for decades and it is rare to meet a really knowledgeable and educated inspector in our area. Usually they hire an unemployed relative of a town official; someone who doesn’t know which end of a screwdriver to use. If a passerby can see it, I get a permit and deal with them.


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