# What is the Best Deck material for Severe Sun and Colorado Winters?



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Personally, steps to a concrete patio works best for me.

Mark


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

Obviously Concrete would work best, but my deck is 10' above ground off a 2nd story slider; not really pratical in my situation. Unless it's that Silca system I read about. But I'm affraid those plastic grid grates the stone lays on would be affected by the strong sun. Even late in the day the sun will almost hit under the deck because I am a bit raised on a hill. Colorado weather tends to make plastic brittle.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Oh…here’s a crazy thought… how about Wood. 

No class actions against it. :no:

Ipe being my first choice followed by Western Red Cedar. :thumbup:


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I realize wood is a viable option for some areas, but in Colorado it is a maintainence horror. When I first moved in and my deck was still red from the fresh cut, I applied thompsons to it one in the begining of the summer, then again in the fall. Then again the following begining of the summer with a supposed better brand, then in the fall. The third year I power washed it then applied again, by Fall it needed it again. By the next Spring it looked like I never did anything to it at all. I gave up at that point. Colorado's hot sun and UV rays, combined with its temperature swings of 60 and 65 degrees in a single day, just laugh at you, your wood deck, and whatever you try to do to protect it. Especially if you have a west southwest exposure with no tree cover, as I do. It's brutal.

To give you an idea; in the Winter, as long as its 20 degrees or higher, I turn the heat off, open all the blinds on my 2 story great room windows, and the house keeps warm all day and night with no gas heat useage at all.

Back east in NY where I grew up, you could treat your deck every other year and it would last a long time. Not here. Wood decking at my house is the most expensive, foolhardy, and frustrating, decking to install when you consider what you pay in time, materials, and labor; only to have it still look like crap. Wood is Not an option; but thanx anyway.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Well that's the beauty of Ipe, you don't have to do a thing to it. :thumbsup:

Good luck with your search for the perfect plastic.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

kwikfishron said:


> Well that's the beauty of Ipe, you don't have to do a thing to it. :thumbsup:
> 
> Good luck with your search for the perfect plastic.


LOL.... I have read about Ipe. However, all that I have read have been from users in wet or normal climates. Colorado is also very dry(Mostly in the 10-15% Humidity range), another factor that kills wood. Isnt Ipe a tropical wood? Has any of the aplications been done in a dry climate, with the sun and temperature extremes of where I live? If so, I'd like to know how it held up. 

It also seems to be the highest priced alternative at $5+ a foot, or has that price dropped recently?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

peakcelln said:


> LOL.... I have read about Ipe. However, all that I have read have been from users in wet or normal climates. Colorado is also very dry(Mostly in the 10-15% Humidity range), another factor that kills wood. Isnt Ipe a tropical wood? Has any of the aplications been done in a dry climate, with the sun and temperature extremes of where I live? If so, I'd like to know how it held up.
> 
> It also seems to be the highest priced alternative at $5+ a foot, or has that price dropped recently?


http://www.advantagelumber.com/ipe_decking_blog/ipe-bridge

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20090905/NEWS/909049989

You only get what you pay for.:whistling2:

I've never paid even close to $5 lf. before but it's been awhile.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

IPE still sucks in Colorado, I know you guys don't bother listening but it still REQUIRES maintenance 2 X a year to look good. The deck below was stained 2 x a year for 11 years, and it still greys out every couple months. Colorado is HARSHER than any other environment so forget real IPE unless you want to spend more time maintaining than enjoying. 

Take it from someone who has been building decks in Colorado for 8 years. 
Avoid wood.
Avoid PVC UNLESS your deck is 16' or less wide. 
Avoid traditional composites. 
Use cap layer boards, my personal favorite is Fiberon in the Horizon or the Pro-Tect line. 
Use steel rails (very few composite or PVC railings can take the beating).
Use steel frame.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I'm glad to see someone else can attest to the harsh variant weather in Colorado. If Ipe is the most durable and weather resistant wood for decks, you did 2x/year maintainence, and still had problems, imagine how I fared with my redwood deck. I also see the picture you provided looked like the rail provided some partial shade; my deck didnt even have that advantage.

Interesting you say to use steel supports; is that for the vertical posts you put in the ground, the horrizontal supports under the decking itself, or both? I do notice all my supports are almost as bad as the deck itself. Where do you get steel decking supports? Do most HOA's approve them?

As I mentioned in my OP, I liked the Fiberon Horizon Castle Grey the most. I believe it was the one with a two-tone grey look in the "Grain" itself; very contemporary looking, which is what my wife and I like. Will that two-tone color hold up in this sun and UV? Have you had any problems with the flaking, spotting, or dusting issues? Have you ever had to utilize a warranty with Fiberon? I read two accounts where contractors had ample proof of product fail and Fiberon basically gave them the run around, ignored them, and never fulfilled the warranty.

What does that Fiberon Horizon product cost, and what can I expect to pay on roughly a 13' x 23' deck w/ the supports you suggested?

What about that Silca System; have you put those in? It seems real stone would do the best in Colorado, but I can't get any feedback on it.

Sorry to ask so many questions, just trying to learn as best I can so I dont throw my money into something I'll need to replace again in 10 years.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> I'm glad to see someone else can attest to the harsh variant weather in Colorado. If Ipe is the most durable and weather resistant wood for decks, you did 2x/year maintainence, and still had problems, imagine how I fared with my redwood deck. I also see the picture you provided looked like the rail provided some partial shade; my deck didnt even have that advantage.
> 
> Interesting you say to use steel supports; is that for the vertical posts you put in the ground, the horrizontal supports under the decking itself, or both? I do notice all my supports are almost as bad as the deck itself. Where do you get steel decking supports? Do most HOA's approve them?
> 
> ...


We do the entire frame out of steel (ledger, joists, beams) however people usually opt for wood posts for aesthetics and cost.

Fiberon has been a great product to work with and I've had minimal problems (manufacturing defect, the board widths vary from size to size 12,16,20) However I called my rep and had new material in 2 days. A homeowner trying to make that happen probably would not have worked, Fiberon understands that the contractors can make or break their product. I typically only order 20' length boards to minimize variations unless we are doing a small project. 

You can look at my website under "package deals" that deck is a little smaller, but it will give you some ideas. 

I've never gotten someone to pull the trigger on the stone products, usually due to cost, you can do a LOT more with your deck by using a composite product over the costly stone offerings. 

No problem on the questions, Colorado is a unique environment and most people who haven't lived here actually understand its harsh environment.


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## HartKyle83 (Apr 22, 2012)

I have used many products over the years and have found TimberTech to be where its at. I live in Norther Illinois so we also have cold winters and hot summers and it does very well. I realize your winters are worse but I think you would be pleased.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

HartKyle83 said:


> I have used many products over the years and have found TimberTech to be where its at. I live in Norther Illinois so we also have cold winters and hot summers and it does very well. I realize your winters are worse but I think you would be pleased.


It's more about how DRY we are and how close we are to the sun (7,000 ft + elevation) I'm from Illinois and there is no comparison to the environments. (no offense intended)


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I wouldnt say the Winters are that much worse. In fact, theyre probably much nicer than Illinois(Shhh, thats a best kept secret).

Colorado always gets the fame because of their early fall and late Spring snowstorms; but in reality, it can get to upper 60's in any month;ie..this February was the snowiest at 18" followed by the warmest March w/ some temps in the 80's. Before February, it really hadnt snowed since before Christmas. 

What kills decks here is we are 1 -1 1/3 miles closer to the sun and the harmful UV rays. We also have HUGE temperature swings of 60+ degrees in a 24 hour period. It also has a very low relative humidity.

I've lived here for 20 years after living in NY all my life and the Winters here are WAY nicer; you just have to expect the unexpected, and respect any snowstorm can potentially bring 1 inch to 4 feet of snow. However, soon after that, the strong sun comes out, and the snow is gone in days. The overused and popular phrase here is "If you don't like the weather, wait a minute". The mountains are a different situation.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> It's more about how DRY we are and how close we are to the sun (7,000 ft + elevation) I'm from Illinois and there is no comparison to the environments. (no offense intended)


Oops, you posted this just before I did, probably while I was writing it...


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> We do the entire frame out of steel (ledger, joists, beams) however people usually opt for wood posts for aesthetics and cost.
> 
> Fiberon has been a great product to work with and I've had minimal problems (manufacturing defect, the board widths vary from size to size 12,16,20) However I called my rep and had new material in 2 days. A homeowner trying to make that happen probably would not have worked, Fiberon understands that the contractors can make or break their product. I typically only order 20' length boards to minimize variations unless we are doing a small project.
> 
> ...


I read that the Silca Decks were half the price of capped composite. I wrote them an email, hopefully they'll add some clarity.

Is that price I saw for the Fiberon Horizon product? Is that a typical price people pay for a deck like this to be built? I've seen much larger decks, are these costing 25-30k? Wow... I guess I was a little ignorant of the costs involved.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> I read that the Silca Decks were half the price of capped composite. I wrote them an email, hopefully they'll add some clarity.
> 
> Is that price I saw for the Fiberon Horizon product? Is that a typical price people pay for a deck like this to be built? I've seen much larger decks, are these costing 25-30k? Wow... I guess I was a little ignorant of the costs involved.


The silca system is different than some of the others, but I would bet by the time you bought a quality paver and the plastic grid you'd be around the same cost as a composite material. I like the look of their system better than many of the other things, I'm going to look into it more and maybe get some samples. 

To give you an idea the smallest contract we've signed in the last 6 months was for $20,000, most of the projects are in the $30,000-$60,000+ range.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

My wife actually has a best friend that imports high end stone tile. my biggest concern is how their plastic grid holds up to the Colorado weather & sun. it seems Colorado tends to break down plastic and make it brittle; in every case I've seen where some form of plastic is exposed to the elements here. I posed this question in the email I sent to Silca and it will be interesting to see what their response is.

It seems as though I'm being unrealistic about using composite for any kind of decent sized deck if I use a contractor. My good friend is a commercial GC and has said he would do the job, but I'm wondering if this is a very specialized area. He's very good at what he does, and has built some major retail stores, but probably has only done a few redwood decks in his lifetime. He is a hands on GC and still does alot of steel framing and ceiling grid himself. You would think he has the skill set to do it, right?


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

BTW, Aside from the color change, how did the Ipe hold up on that deck? I'm looking for a grey color like the Ipe in that picture. What effects will the sun have on the strength and longevity of the Ipe? Is Ipe less expensive than Fiberon Horizon?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

If not for the constant staining IPE will dry out and crack here in Colorado. IPE costs a bit more than Fiberon Horizon. 

As far as building a quality deck, most people think it's easy and most carpenters feel that they can tackle it, however that is far from the case. When you're investing in your home you want someone who is BEYOND just capable, you want an experienced craftsman who knows whats going on. I've hired a few former home builders and I've had to retrain them on how to actually build a deck, it's a lot more than just joists at 16" O.C. like most assume. A deck specialist is someone who concentrates on decks and only decks, I spend a LOT of time in research of new products and techniques and I'm constantly making changes as we find new ideas and techniques (thus the reason for steel 3 years ago). Find someone who has an EXTENSIVE portfolio of similar projects and then my number one recommendation is to go and visit some projects (some finished, some in progress) so you can see first hand the quality put into the projects, as well as seeing how the guys are on the current project, are they clean?, polite?, organized?, safe?, people you want working on your property? Licensing and insurance are of course critical, and references will tell you far more than a stupid bbb grade (it's not hard to have the A+ that we have, the BBB is actually a joke, more for advertising than anything) If you want something that adds value to your home then choose quality materials and a quality craftsman to complete the project.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

robertcdf said:


> If not for the constant staining IPE will dry out and crack here in Colorado.


Have you ever just oiled it (no stain)?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

kwikfishron said:


> Have you ever just oiled it (no stain)?


It's not my deck, it was one of many people that I meet with that are looking for a better solution. I'd never use wood on my own deck here. 

Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter what you put on it you'll need to do it twice a year at least.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

You know for all the cost and material decomposition from UV and temperature swings, have you ever considered a composite concrete deck. 

A basic steel structure covered with corrogated metal pan topped with 3" of concrete. 

It may be a tad more expensive initially, but will out last any other material. Might be worth contacting a building contractor for a quote.

Mark


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

robertcdf said:


> It's not my deck, it was one of many people that I meet with that are looking for a better solution. I'd never use wood on my own deck here.
> 
> Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter what you put on it you'll need to do it twice a year at least.


It boggles my mind how much money has been spent (and wasted in many cases) and how many people have got rich on the elusion of “maintenance free” and “forever”.

It’s only been about 15 years for the decking, with some notable failures along the way and other issues with inconsistency as you noted that a homeowner just may have to live with but I would call unacceptable.

Heck, after 60 years the siding industry still doesn’t have it figured out but they sure sell like they do. :laughing:

I’m really not trying to be argumentative here, it is what it is.

Btw, it takes me about as long to oil my Cedar Deck (once a year) as it does to mow my lawn. :whistling2:


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

kwikfishron said:


> It boggles my mind how much money has been spent (and wasted in many cases) and how many people have got rich on the elusion of “maintenance free” and “forever”.
> 
> It’s only been about 15 years for the decking, with some notable failures along the way and other issues with inconsistency as you noted that a homeowner just may have to live with but I would call unacceptable.
> 
> ...


I don't recall mentioning maintenance FREE, lower maintenance is accurate, in fact it's been a LONG time since a manufacturer has said maintenance FREE. Now the idiot who works at home depot or lowes might SAY maintenance free but RARELY does the literature say that. If you go around believing everything the morons at the box store say then you've got issues. 

You are correct that there have been many failures throughout the years but the products sold then are not the same as sold now. Just like the Model T is not the same as a ford F-150. I don't understand how it's such a hard concept to grasp that products are constantly changing. I have a number of projects that have been built with these cap layer boards and a test setup 5 years old now and in my harsh environment, 1 brand has lost 0 color the other brand lost 5-10% depending upon the color in the lineup.

I'd never tell the homeowner to live with those inconsistencies, if you'll note I had ALL new product brought in at no cost to the HO (or me). And BTW wood has width variations in it too, so stop acting like its a perfect product. 

It might take a little longer to stain a deck like this (there is another 250+ sq ft on the upper deck)


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

Jackofall1 said:


> You know for all the cost and material decomposition from UV and temperature swings, have you ever considered a composite concrete deck.
> 
> A basic steel structure covered with corrogated metal pan topped with 3" of concrete.
> 
> ...


Concrete is an idea, I've seen it done on 5 elevated projects, 2 had BIG cracks in them (very unsightly) the other 3 I never saw past the first week. I wouldn't doubt if they develop large cracks as well. 

Could be a great solution in other environments, but not a great option here.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

Jackofall1 said:


> You know for all the cost and material decomposition from UV and temperature swings, have you ever considered a composite concrete deck.
> 
> A basic steel structure covered with corrogated metal pan topped with 3" of concrete.
> 
> ...


I was just going to say this.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

> I don't recall mentioning maintenance FREE


I never said you did. 



> If you go around believing everything the morons at the box store say then you've got issues.


 :laughing: Thanks for the schooling there chief. 



> I don't understand how it's such a hard concept to grasp that products are constantly changing.


 And sometimes things that have always worked still work great today. A wheel is still round, I doubt that will ever change. 



> I'd never tell the homeowner to live with those inconsistencies, if you'll note I had ALL new product brought in at no cost to the HO (or me).


 I never said you did. You said that you (as a contractor) had new stock in 2 days but a homeowner acting on their own may not be so lucky.



> And BTW wood has width variations in it too, so stop acting like its a perfect product.


 Once again...I never said one was better than the other (although you did). 

I do know this though, in the summer I bbq on my deck, in my bare feet, can you? :no: :laughing:

:notworthy::scooter::scooter::scooter::notworthy: :surrender::drink:


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I would want to see the concrete work first before I tried it. But its along these lines that I'm very interested in that Silca system. If cracks present, at least they wont run when the stone tile is 18"-24" square. But I need to know the plastic grid underneath can hold up.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

If installed properly and the right design mix used the is NO reason for a decked pour to not to hold up.
Right now I am on a job that is probably has the worst conditions on earth,they make water softer pellets from salt brine and the conditions are brutal.
I understand that Colorado may have harsh conditions in the weather,every place on earth has specific conditions.
To the OP,take a look around your area and when you see something ask questions it is like having a car,then you notice everyone has a car like yours.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

kwikfishron said:


> :laughing: Thanks for the schooling there chief.


BTW, I didn't mean YOU listening to the morons at the box store, it was directed at ANYONE listening to the morons at the box store. I'm sure you know better than to ask advice of those idiots, I just find it amazing when someone believes a box store employee who's never built a deck in their life over someone who does it every day.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

Ravenworks said:


> If installed properly and the right design mix used the is NO reason for a decked pour to not to hold up.
> Right now I am on a job that is probably has the worst conditions on earth,they make water softer pellets from salt brine and the conditions are brutal.
> I understand that Colorado may have harsh conditions in the weather,every place on earth has specific conditions.
> To the OP,take a look around your area and when you see something ask questions it is like having a car,then you notice everyone has a car like yours.


I agree, concrete SHOULD hold up, however in these cases it failed, BADLY. One of the project was on a "Parade of Homes" a number of years ago, I have no idea how they constructed it since it was all finished. 
The other one I saw was a full 4" slab poured over engineered joists, sheethed and waterproofed. Big cracks in both of these slabs that looked terrible, and once concrete cracks there is nothing you can really do to make it look good again.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

robertcdf said:


> once concrete cracks there is nothing you can really do to make it look good again.


I agree 100%
I would have to guess one factor was the mix and the other was engineering problem.
The OP situation is one of either he is going to have some maintenance or not be happy with what he gets.
I would make the slab a floating slab,enabling it to move with the seasons.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

Ravenworks said:


> I agree 100%
> I would have to guess one factor was the mix and the other was engineering problem.
> The OP situation is one of either he is going to have some maintenance or not be happy with what he gets.
> I would make the slab a floating slab,enabling it to move with the seasons.


I think you missed the part about being 10 ft in the air. Floating slab is not an option.


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## thetalkingmule (Apr 6, 2012)

I'm currently putting down Veranda Armorguard decking(in "Brazilian Walnut") which is the Home Depot brand name for Fiberon Pro-Tect. To me, it's the best bang for your buck as long as you're not using the grooves-and-clips method of attaching. If you are screwing your deck down(which you should if it's 10ft off the ground IMO) I wouldn't hesitate to use the non-grooved version. If you're going to attach with clips, I'd use the Timbertech Earth [Something] line which is fully capped in PVC and even has some protection inside the clip grooves.

Found this interesting article on all the current composite products and trends.

As a disclaimer I'm just a DIY'er who is only laying his first deck, but I've done a TON of research on which composites to use and have physically handled almost a dozen. IMO the Veranda Armorguard seems as well constructed or better than most and I like the look the best. Timbertech seems to have the best rep with contractors among the national brands, but it was too expensive for me.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

robertcdf said:


> I think you missed the part about being 10 ft in the air. Floating slab is not an option.


When I said floating I meant being able to move with the building.
We install them all the time ,you need an engineer to design it which is generally a no brainier for one.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> We do the entire frame out of steel (ledger, joists, beams) however people usually opt for wood posts for aesthetics and cost.
> 
> No problem on the questions, Colorado is a unique environment and most people who haven't lived here actually understand its harsh environment.


 
I looked all over and could not find any steel decking joists, beams, and ledgers. Where can I look at whats available in our area?


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

peakcelln said:


> I looked all over and could not find any steel decking joists, beams, and ledgers. Where can I look at whats available in our area?


They are fabricated from common stock, materials bought from a steel supplier


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

So i have to make them myself? what do i need to make them and what materials do I order?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> So i have to make them myself? what do i need to make them and what materials do I order?


Trex has a system called Elevations, it's a bit more homeowner friendly than what I use.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

peakcelln said:


> So i have to make them myself?
> what do i need to make them and what materials do I order?


1 Yes
2 That would be up to the person (engineer) that designed it


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> Trex has a system called Elevations, it's a bit more homeowner friendly than what I use.


So they sell the steel joists and everything else I need? If not, where can I get it locally in Colorado?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> So they sell the steel joists and everything else I need? If not, where can I get it locally in Colorado?


Yup, most lumber yards who deal with trex should be able to order it.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> Yup, most lumber yards who deal with trex should be able to order it.


Well, I went to HD and Lowes and neither of them knew what I was talking about. Then again, they were probably working at the Burger King Drive Thru the week before. They kept trying to convince me all I needed was wood and that steel was overkill. Does anyone remember when these places used to hire people only from the trade of the department they worked in? That lasted maybe a year, I guess they didnt want to pay them.

Anyway, an suggestions on where to get this Steel supports for my deck in southern Denver Metro, or anywhere in the Denver Metro?


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## CaptRandy (Nov 9, 2011)

3/4" tongue and groove plywood followed by a coated deck of fiberglass with gelcoat of you color choice. They hold up to some pretty bad Noreasters and hurricanes here. And we do get a fair bit of moisture on the coast of New Jersey.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

CaptRandy said:


> 3/4" tongue and groove plywood followed by a coated deck of fiberglass with gelcoat of you color choice. They hold up to some pretty bad Noreasters and hurricanes here. And we do get a fair bit of moisture on the coast of New Jersey.


Thanx for the idea. Having lived just north of NYC(Rockland Co) the first 31 years of my life, I agree that would be a good solution out east; albeit not as aesthetically pleasing. 

However the sun and UV rays would litterally cook that out here; besides the HOA's out here wouldnt allow it.


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## CaptRandy (Nov 9, 2011)

Then look up NuTeak, works on boat decks 
or check on Flexiteek


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> Well, I went to HD and Lowes and neither of them knew what I was talking about. Then again, they were probably working at the Burger King Drive Thru the week before. They kept trying to convince me all I needed was wood and that steel was overkill. Does anyone remember when these places used to hire people only from the trade of the department they worked in? That lasted maybe a year, I guess they didnt want to pay them.
> 
> Anyway, an suggestions on where to get this Steel supports for my deck in southern Denver Metro, or anywhere in the Denver Metro?


http://diversifiedlp.com/ 
Ask for Dave, he'll be able to help you out.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

robertcdf said:


> http://diversifiedlp.com/
> Ask for Dave, he'll be able to help you out.


Thanx for that. I think I mentioned earlier my best friend is a GC down in the Springs and he's gonna help me do my deck in between commercial jobs he's doing out of state. We spoke yesterday and wanted to know if I could find out where you get it in the Springs so he could go down and figure out what I need. I figure since he's helping me do this, I should at least try and do all the foot work for him. 

He said if I go with the Trex stuff it will be way more expensive and he could easily figure it out if I could point him in the right direction. He figured it was some kind of 14-18 gauge galvenized studs using self tappers to screw in the groove holders(Does that make sense?). He also said I'd probably need an Engineer to do the plans for permit and code. So I'll have to look for one up here that does Decks and won't charge me an arm and a leg.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

I use Dave for all of my supply, he can help you out. Your friend is on the right track (What's his name?) If he wanted to stop by a project to look at one of ours in progress just have him give me a call. http://griffethstructural.com/ is my engineer, he's well acquainted with steel frames. Tell your friend to check out this article the author is really amazing... :laughing: http://www.deckmagazine.com/article/363.html


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I just sent him the 3133# and told him to give you a call. His name is Mike. Thanx so much, youve really been a huge help. 

He was tring to get me to go with wood, but I basically told him all we discussed on here and he told me it will be a bit more expensive. He also had questions about the stairs and posts in the ground I guess he can discuss with you.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

What do you think would be the most resilient and affordable Handrail and ballaster to use that would match a light grey deck(Probably Fiberon Castle Grey in that two-tone color)?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

I use Fortress Iron FE26 premade panels for a lot of my projects, it's a good product. Black would look good with the gray and black tends to blend well with the surroundings, it allows you to see past the rails (if you have a view). I'll be doing a ProTect Gray Birch with the fortress FE26 in black next month, it'll look really good.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

What can I expect to pay for those? What about the Vienna Belly? My wife seems to love those. I know if I order through HD or Lowes, I'll get a disabled Vet Discount.

Would I go with Fiberon railing, or stick with the fortress for the posts and rails I attach the ballusters to?


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> What can I expect to pay for those? What about the Vienna Belly? My wife seems to love those. I know if I order through HD or Lowes, I'll get a disabled Vet Discount.
> 
> Would I go with Fiberon railing, or stick with the fortress for the posts and rails I attach the ballusters to?


I would stay away from fiberons railings, they are not that great (PVC garbage). The FE26 is complete top, bottom, and pickets in one panel, just cut to size. I do my own custom posts because I don't like anyone elses. Pricing will vary depending upon supplier. The Vienna belly is newer and may have limited supply, it looks fine but it's a little weaker because of the flat belly pickets. 

Nothing of better/best quality is cheap, it just doesn't happen. Much like skilled labor, highly skilled guys charge accordingly, it's not the project you're paying for it's the 10+ years of experience to not  up your deck and materials that you're paying for.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

What about hand rails and a radius? I have 3 45 Degree radius(2 concave,1 convex) and 1 larger 180 degree radius about 12 feet wide? Don't I have to make sure I can get handrails that are curved before I actually send the plans out to an engineer? It seems everything will depend on the handrails...


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

peakcelln said:


> What about hand rails and a radius? I have 3 45 Degree radius(2 concave,1 convex) and 1 larger 180 degree radius about 12 feet wide? Don't I have to make sure I can get handrails that are curved before I actually send the plans out to an engineer? It seems everything will depend on the handrails...


Anything is doable... As long as you have the budget, I paid a custom welder roughly $100 per LF for these railings, they have a substantial 1" thick baluster (most are 1/2") and it's a great looking rail as long as you have the budget for it. Curves also add considerably to the overall cost of a project since they CAN be a bit more time consuming depending upon the layout and plan.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

At this point, I think I need to go the least expensive route. I'm over my budget and figure I'll get the most inexpensive Handrails up that will be to code and pass inspection, then woprk on replacing them later down the road.

Another problem my GC friend and I are having is figuring how to do the stairs in steel. How did you accomplish this and what did it cost?

Thanx again for all your help!!!


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I just found a fairly good deal on some belly balusters at about 4.67 each after my discount. I figure I have about 101' of handrail length including my stairs(Still trying to figure out how to do those in steel); therefore and according to a baluster calculator, I need 262 of these or about $1226.00. What is the least expensive rails and posts I could put those on, or should I say, the most bang for my buck, that will still loook good and be sturdy? The Trex Trancends and Timber tech stuff looks expensive and I dont know if these belly balusters will work on them anyway. 

BTW, the reason I've been away so long is my HOA finally approved my deck design.


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## peakcelln (May 5, 2012)

I would like some input on this handrail idea.

I build my rails out of Trex and Fiberon boards. I'm looking at gray tones. So Trex Trancends gravel gray 2x4 for top and bottom rails and on top of the upper 2x4, I put a Fiberon Horizons Castle Gray 2x6. The posts would have the Fiberon Horizons Castle Gray sleeves. The ballusters would be black aluminum belly ballusters. I have about 95' of handrail and 25 posts. Without Post caps and attaching hardware, I'm somewhere around $2700 before tax. 

My biggest concern is finding a suitable way to attach the rails to the post and the upper rail (2x4) to the 2x6 with out it looking crappy. Any ideas????


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

Those composite 2x4's will sag in the middle, make sure to put in some squash blocks. The fiberon board is a 5/4 board (15/16") not a 2x6 so plan accordingly for code compliant height of railing. Just use trim head screws to attach the top it doesn't look bad and it will hold the cap very well.


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## skybok (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Peakcelln,

Just saw this 2 year-old thread today. Thought I'd give you my two cents on Ipe. My house is at 6600 feet in Colorado Springs. I have 800 sq ft of Ipe decking, built over 10 years ago. The Ipe shows NO signs of wear, including color! I have had a time trying to stain/protect the wood because it is so dense. Even hardwood deck stain does not penetrate this stuff. I finally found a material out of Florida that i applied 2-1/2 years ago. It shows no sign of wear or discoloration. It's called Wood Rx. I've tried everything under the sun (pun intended) previously - Penafin, Cabots, TWP, etc. I applied stain every other year. Nothing compares to Wood Rx. It does leave a very slight orange hue on the wood, but it seems impervious to the sun and weather. Same goes for the Ipe. When I built the deck, Ipe was $1.57 a lineal foot! Let me know if you'd like to see a pic.


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## EmmaMiller12 (Oct 14, 2017)

I personally would stay clear from plastics as they can become very hot from the sun. I would use a wood material. depending on budget. If you want to save money but still want a good quality product you can go with Cedar. It is rated for 15 years but you would be lucky to get 8-10years. medium range price you have Genuine Mahogany which is a relatively new product on the market. It is sourced from fiji, and is plantation grown and sustainable. it is rated for over 25 years. This is a great option that wont break the bank and it last the same time as your substructure. (25years). then you have the higher priced woods like Ipe that last for over 40+ years but this is overkill as your substructure will rot before so you are just wasting your money. 

If it is in direct sunlight. I would use a penetrating oil and then let the lumber turn to a silvery colour. The sun will destroy any stain you put down and this will cause all sorts of maintenance for you.


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