# No main power shut off



## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

I am trying to find out if I will be able to shut off my power or if I will have to have the electric company shut it off.

Below are links to pictures of my electrical panel. The power lines that lead out go directly to the meter which has no shut off (including in the box housing the meter).

The inside box is a Zinsco/Sylvania model number 20-5x(7-14). The bottom breaker on the top group of circuits will shut off powet to the bottom group of circuits. However, I don't know how to shut off power to the top group of circuits.

Any help is appreciated. Link to album with three pictures is below.

http://picasaweb.google.com/114363253516594394326/Power?feat=directlink


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Where are you located ?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

What you appear to have there is called a split bus panel. There is a breaker in the top half that shuts off the bottom half. There are up to five other breakers that control other large devices.

This works because there is a code section that states a maximum of six breakers are allowed to kill power to the entire house. Therefore you have one breaker for the bottom half and five others that can be used for large 240 volt appliances like stove, water heater furnace, ac, etc.


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

I am located in Tampa, FL


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

From the picture I count 7 breakers in the top section. This does not meet code no matter where in the US you are located. Six mains max! Somebody took out the full size main breaker and put in a wafer to gain an extra space. 

Also I would have an electrician pull the meter and remove all the top breakers and check for burnt busbar. It is very common on these Zinsco panels.

This panel appears to be overloaded!


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

The panel to the left was added less than a year ago when I had the house expanded. The inspectors checked and did not say anything about the panel. If I remember correctly the inspector made the electricians put in the sub panel to the left


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

Unless there is a main breaker outside or somewhere else that turns off power to everything this is not to code and the inspector probably just missed it! That doesn't make it right or legal and a good home inspector for hire will probably catch this if you ever try to sell the house.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Show us a photo of the exterior meter.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

How does the 6 breaker rule apply if one of the ganged breaks doesn't have any wires to it? It isn't clear in the picture but I don't think there are any wires to the red breaker.
vab63 - are there wires connected to the red 220 breaker?


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

1. I uploaded a picture of the outside. (The tab from the electric company has been cut for a few months from the expansion)

2. The 2/20 amp breaker on the top group of breakers goes to the GFCI in one of the bathrooms. There is nothing "big" on it.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Just because it might not be code compliant now does not mean it wasn't code compliant when it was in installed.


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

The house was built in 1978 if this helps explain the set up


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

brric said:


> Just because it might not be code compliant now does not mean it wasn't code compliant when it was in installed.


Seven mains has never been compliant!

The whole reasoning behind a split bus panel was to save on having to install a main breaker and all split bus panels of that era where designed for 6 breakers on top with one of the six being a main for the lower section. Some had two lower sections with a main for each at the top but still no more than six mains total.

It can be made legal by removing 2 of the breakers on top and installing one new full size 60-amp breaker in their place and using that breaker to feed another sub panel. You can then relocate the breakers you removed to create the space to the new panel.

Or if there is space and capacity in the newer panel already installed you can relocate the wiring from one of the top breakers to that panel leaving six remaining in the top section of the Zinsco panel and making it compliant.


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

I just checked the 2/20 fuses hoping that they were moved over to the sub panel. The were not. I'm still back to square one. How do I shut off the main power?????? I'm not moving any time soon but if I would like to move the 2/20 circuit on the top panel over to the panel on the left which also has slots open and would hopefully bring the main panel up to code. I am also looking at having a generator transfer switch installed. Is the meter the main cut off switch? Would I have to contact the electric company to twist off the meter?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You can't shut off the power to the top
Electrician or POCO needed


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

I understand that a qualified electrician or power company will need to cut the power and that one of the circuits will need to be moved from the top. Thanks for all the quick replies.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Yet another prime example of how ELECTRICAL ROCKS! :clap: :clap:


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I would also install a shut off before the panel, if you're going to be pulling the meter. I believe it costs a pretty penny to get the poco to do that, so may as well do it just once!


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

check on pricing. In my area, it's a no charge deal. Don't know why but it is.

and since zinsco panels have been known to have problems, you might actually just consider putting in a shiny new panel while you are doing things. If you put in a bigger (circuit count) panel in, you put in a 200 amp MLO panel and backfed it with a 100 amp breaker, you could end up with up to 38 breaker spaces in the one panel.

(which is what I would have done to begin with rather than setting the subpanel)

Or you could upgrade the service to 200 amp if you could use the power and simply install a 200 amp main breaker with 40 breaker spaces in it.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

It will be much wiser to upgrade to new load centre with 200 amp service I am pretty sure but not confirmed that you may have 70mm² conductors there but I doubt right now due you may have 55mm² there so with the 55mm² conductors they are good for 150 amp so you will have to verify the AWG it will say like 1/0 or 2/0 etc it will be on the marking and one of us will tell ya the correct size you have.

Unforetally I am not very crazy with Zinsco load centres they have repuation for burnted bussbar connectors.
You can not see it until you pull the breakers out then you can see the damage but most case I have ran into they are pretty serious damage allready done.

That panel you show your photo to us that is split buss bar design it used to be legit before but not anymore due too easy to abuse the rules the 6 throw rules in NEC code requirement will not specfic which numbers of poles on the breakers so it can be single pole or duex pole or tripole breakers so the 6 strokes of your hand movement that part you can able do that in the hurry ditto with large commercal installment as well.

Merci,Marc


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## zpm (Jan 6, 2009)

In post #10, the picture of your meter can. It looks like there's 3 main wires coming off the load side and into the house, and another three smaller wires dropping to the lower right. You might want to figure out what's going on there.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

zpm said:


> In post #10, the picture of your meter can. It looks like there's 3 main wires coming off the load side and into the house, and another three smaller wires dropping to the lower right. You might want to figure out what's going on there.


Looks like a service lateral. Maybe that panel to the left is not a sub-panel.


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

The panel to the left is definitely a sub. It has three 20amp circuit that shut off power to various things in the bed rooms that were expanded.

When I get home from work I will try to see where the wire coming out of the bottom of the meter leads to.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

zpm said:


> In post #10, the picture of your meter can. It looks like there's 3 main wires coming off the load side and into the house, and another three smaller wires dropping to the lower right. You might want to figure out what's going on there.


definitely a good catch.

I don't know any meters under a 320 amp that is rated to have more than 1 lug per leg and none of the lugs are rated for more than one conductor that I am aware of. 

Then we have the problem of possibly no disconnect means what-so-ever with that tap as well.

More than likely the connection is illegal.


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## vab53 (Jun 9, 2010)

The three small wires on the bottom of the meter go to the small cup on the bottom right of the panel. They terminate in the cup. I have no ideal what the cup is for.


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

It is a lightening arrestor!


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

vab53 said:


> The three small wires on the bottom of the meter go to the small cup on the bottom right of the panel. They terminate in the cup. I have no ideal what the cup is for.


That is lighting arrestor they are typically be on the bottom of the meter box or on the overhead connection I know just about every house in Floride have them.

Merci,Marc


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