# Square D 100 amp panel



## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Forum,

I have a 100 amp service with a Square D panel and load center. The label on the interior panel states: QON 16M E series. 2 questions:

First, can anyone tell me if this load center accepts tandem breakers?

Second, I've attached an image. I assume this gap between breakers is here for a reason. Can anyone tell me why?

Some background: Home is 850 sq ft, 1 bedroom. Hot water is oil fired. I wanted to know that, if I absolutely had to, I could add a circuit to the electric panel for electric hot water. The panel is full with the following circuits:

30 amp-dryer, 40 amp-oven, 2 15 amps-furnace & hot water, 20 amp-washer, 6 15 amps for lights & recepticles.

If I can't use tandem breakers, would a small sub-panel be the way to go, or would the addition of a circuit for hot water be too much for this 100 amp service?

Thanks,


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

The paperwork on the panel should say for sure, but a QO panel with a single number designation (16) will not accept tandems. There doesn't appear to be a reason to have the two spaces vacant, but it's hard to tell from the picture. It may be possible to move two of the 120V breakers to these spaces (two from the same side of the panel) to open up space for a double pole breaker. For a house that small, check into a water heater that will work on a 20A 240V circuit.


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

Hopefully this is a better image to reveal the space between breakers.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

What about the cover? Is there break-out tabs that correspond to the two open positions?


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

The breakout tabs are still there, see image.


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

You should be able to use those spaces. Move two circuits up as I outlined and you will have space for a double pole (240V) breaker to power the water heater.


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

I here what your saying. To me, it almost looks like there's nothing there for the breaker to snap or lock onto......


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Those spaces are usable breaker spaces. There also are SQ D QO tandems that will fit that panel.


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

Thank you all for your input.....


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## nilsonov (Nov 7, 2013)

Hi, I have a very similar panel with a similar question, but my i don't have that gap space and I am just looking to squeeze in 2 more 120V breakers. 
My question is what are those 2 boxes in the top right position of the breakers (right across from the 100A main)? Can they be removed and replaced with breakers, or are the a part of the 100A main?

If they cannot be removed, can I avoid upgrading the whole thing and somehow installing a subpanel?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

That is not an available breaker location. Tandems ARE available for QO load centers.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...T0TJySjYuJFFFCPvQ&sig2=nfvDoxA4uzCnmV-WU933WQ


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

You should be careful about which breaker type you purchase for your QO panel.

Where the breaker mounts, there should be a slot in it to allow for the "hook" on a tandem breaker.

Older panels do not have the slot and aren't listed for adding new circuits. The breakers for these type panels are listed"for replacement only" and run about $35 each.

Here's a picture of each type.


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## nilsonov (Nov 7, 2013)

thanks guys, unfortunatly i already have all tandems, but it only adds up to 6 tamdems (12 breakers) and a 30A that goes to a sub on the other side of the house. 
Picture should explain it better. 

I assume the 30A is a 2 pole? It has 2 hot legs on it. Are these available in 1" size? (Haven't had a chance to browse the local electric store yet that stocks Square D breakers).

If the above is not an option, I guess I am left with pulling out a tandem, replacing with a 30A single pole to a subpanel, and putting 2 20A tamdems in it.

The reason for all this is that the missus's 1875W blow drier trips the bathroom 15A circuit after a few minutes, and much faster if any of the other receptacles are being used on that circuit. So Ill I want to do is run a dedicated 20A circuit to the bathroom.

All in all, 100A is way more than what I need with a gas boiler, heater, and drier.

Thanks!


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

You could get a quad breaker for it.


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## nilsonov (Nov 7, 2013)

Nice, looks like exactly what I need. Thanks!


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## kwilcox (Nov 19, 2011)

@ulrichfolkers: interesting panel; something doesn't look right to me. Can you post a closeup picture of the highlighted label?


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

I will when I get home tonight. If my memory serves, I believe the panel label indicates that it does not accept tandem breakers. I will double check tonight as well. Also, I here what others have posted about the blank spaces in the panel being usable spaces, but, to me, it appears there's nothing for the breaker to snap onto in those spaces. I should have done this before, I'm going to pull one of the existing breakers to see what's up about these empty spaces.

Thanks


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

As promised, here's some pictures. First picture showing one breaker removed. Second picture shows panel box label. Third picture shows load center label. With a breaker removed I can see where the breaker locks on to the metal tab on the load center. You folks were spot on, the 2 empty spaces referred to earlier in the post are usable breaker spaces.

I know some have posted that there are tandem breakers that will fit this load center, but, can this be confirmed based upon the image of the load center label? The load center label states: Series E7 QON 16M. It would be nice to know whether tandems are legal in this load center.

Thanks....


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## circuitman (Aug 9, 2013)

if there is not a slot in the rail , the ones with the metal hook will not work. but i belive the other style will.the big one(pic) wirenut posted will not work unless there is a slot for it, but i belive the smaller pic one will.:thumbup::whistling2:


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## ulrichfolkers (Mar 22, 2012)

I think this was confirmed earlier in this post, but, I believe with a box model number of QOBW20M100-1, tandems are not allowed.

Thanks again..


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## circuitman (Aug 9, 2013)

ulrichfolkers said:


> I think this was confirmed earlier in this post, but, I believe with a box model number of QOBW20M100-1, tandems are not allowed.
> 
> Thanks again..


they used too make what they called piggybacks that look just like a regular QO , but the handles were right up under each other.:whistling2:


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## kwilcox (Nov 19, 2011)

According to the picture, no tandems are allowed in your panel. It looked sort of like a split bus panel to me which is why I asked to see the label. It is not.


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