# roofing job okay so far?



## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

Hi all,

We hired a roofer we felt good about, had good references, etc., who subbed the job -- he said they'd do a great job, etc. They're part way throught the job-- dimensional shingles on an old house in 70-ish degree weather -- and we're disappointed to see the shingles not laying flat. We don't know if it's a bad job at this point, or if we just need some hot days for the shingles to settle down-- there are pics at the following link if anyone would care to offer advice. 

We have't paid anything on the job yet, and we're thinking we don't want to pay the full price until it looks good --hopefully the job is well done in terms of rain protection, not just cosmetics, but we don't have the expertise to tell.

Thanks for any info--

link to pics:

http://mandolinbridge.net/2.html


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## send_it_all (Apr 30, 2007)

I have a few questions about the agreement you made..

Why did you hire a guy who hired a guy?...unless the roof was part of a larger job run by a general.

Did they offer to do a tearoff and re-roof, and you didn't want to pay extra?

Did you sign a contract with a detailed scope of work, and does the detail include tearing off old roof?

Are these contractors licensed?


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

we didn't realize, when we hired the guy, that he wouldn't be at the job site himself. We had a level of trust in him, so when he said he was having the work done by another guy he uses, we weren't too concerned.

I did speak with the original roofer this evening, & he said the shingles would lay down with a few warm days--I've been researching the internet & found this is true, so we may be fine. Roofers should warn their clients about this, it's a shock to see shingles looking like that!

The guy is a member of NARI (I believe that's correct, I think it's a roofing association), has a good record with Angie's List locally, & no problems with the Better Business Bureau. He also provided a recent address they roofed & it looked great. He looked good on ServiceMagic as well, who stated he carried up to date insurance. (I know we should have demanded proof, we'll get tougher about that).

We did sign a contract stating the work to be done--there's one layer of tab shingles on the roof, so shingling over that shouldn't be a problem, though there seems to be controversy on that. The current layer of shingles were in decent shape. One company that bid suggested a tear off, but they didn't have a good track record.

Since I've found out about shingles needing a day or two of hot weather to "lay down", I'm feeling better about all this. Time will tell, we've got some warmer weather coming.


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## send_it_all (Apr 30, 2007)

I think it will be fine, too. 


I'm not a roofer, though...lol


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Reroofing over an existing roof will create a slightly more bumpy appearance if the pre-existing shingles were already beginning to curl, claw or buckle.

Some of the lifting observed in the center of the new shingles may be due to being butted too tightly together or also from following the nesting pattern from the previous roof. The original 3 tab shingles have slots every 12 " which can accomodate some minor horizontal variences of the rows. If the new architectural shingles were following a wavy row, that could possibly account for the center bridging I noted on several of the shingles.

Also, it just may need to warm up a little more for then to lay down flatter.

It really all comes down to; What did the contract specifications say thay would do.

Minor cosmetic irregularities are not a warrantable byproduct of the installation, but more significant aesthetic problems which could adversely affect the weather proofing of the entire roof system should be held to a different standard.

BTW, just today our company is starting a new roof tear-off on an exact twin to the roof in your photos, including the offset roof at the top where the sheet metal flashings and brick chimney are located.

That one is in Elgin, IL.

Also, NARI stand for National Association for the Remofeling Industry. Were you thinking of NRCA, the National Roofing Contractors Association instead? He could belong to NARI, as they have a specialized trade program available too.

Ed


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

thanks guys!

I believe it was NARI he belongs to--his company is listed as roofing & remodelling, but I don't believe he remodels any more. (getting older, which may explain why he didn't work on this roof & hired the other guys). 

Ed, how are you handling the flat roof area? Our guys aren't dealing with it all (contract didn't specify anything about it)--& he said the flashing around the chimney & flues was fine, but the only leaking problem we have is the chimney wicking moisture down to the 2nd floor. Roofer thought the moisture was coming from rain entering the flues. We put a chimney cap on one flue, (& will do the other as well). The exposed chimney in the attic shows a lot of deterioration of the mortar--at 100 years, I wonder if the brick & mortar is sucking up the moisture rather than the flashing leaking.

In any case, we're thinking of using another local company, larger & very reputable, to address that flat area of roof.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

The roof section at the top by the chimney is not actually flat in my situation. Maybe yours is, but I didn't notice that from the thumbnail photos.

We are using Grace Ice and Water shield and shingling the one on the home we are doing.

Old brick does wick substantial moisture. If the tuckponting is in good shape, then a water repellant coating should be applied to the exterior of the masonry surfaces. This is not a long term solution and will be necessary to re-apply every 5 years or so.

Ed


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

thanks Ed! 

(re: the thumbnails-the pics in the link can be enlarged, you have to click on them twice or so.)


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## itwerx2 (Apr 3, 2007)

Ed- If the severely buckled/fishmouthed shingles remain open rather than lay down and seal, how does this affect weatherproofing? 

Similiarly, how do 1" to 2" gaps at the rake edges caused by buckled shingles affect weatherproofing there?

Many Thanks.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

What was the current roof put over? The roofing looks like it was put over wood shingles or curled asphalt shingles. 
Ron


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Shingle roofs are weather proof only due to the slope that they are installed on. The shingles will probably lay down more and unless you are in a heavy wind tunnel area, it is probably not a major concern.

You have no "Rake edges" on your home. That term describes a gable style home, yours is a "hip" style.

Ed


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

Ron6519, it was put on a pretty flat single layer of tab shingles. (I think they're tab, they're pretty old. A little curling & algae in the back of the house, but most of the pics aren't of the back.) I'm hoping that the new dimensional shingles were that wavy before they put them on--the shingles sat in the back yard for several weeks before they could get to this job, so they weren't laying flat in the bundle. 

We have a couple of nearly 80 degree sunny days coming this week, so I think we're going to know more then. . .the roofer wanted payment in full on completion of the job, the decision we're wrestling with now is, to pay the full amount or pay partially until the shingles lay down to an acceptable level. . .


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Where are you located? I understand the IRC code says "no overlays". I had to correct the last building official on this last week. They had a pamphlet for their roofing projects in their area and it showed an overlay. 
It is possible this is a MN thing though. I may have to correct myself after I find out the specifics.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

I am just curious, how many other sites did you post this question on and where do you feel you recieved the most correct answers from. I would like to add those to my favorites to visit on occasion too.

Plus, you did not mention in your post here on this site, that they did tear out some but not all of the ridges and valleys.

Ed


Expert: Stan Skarbek
Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: is this a bad roofing job in progess?

Question
We hired a roofer to put our roof on (dimensional shingles over one layer on an older home), and to our dismay the result so far looks, well, not too good. Is this a bad job in progess, or will it take warmer weather & sun for the shingles to lay flat? They started out not tearing off the ridges & valleys, but we asked them to do so on the areas they've not done yet. The job isn't quite completed, I have some photos showing the original shingles which mostly laid flat & smooth. 

We're not sure how we should handle things at this point--the guy we contracted with is out of town & won't be back for a few weeks. We haven't paid any money yet.

Here's pics:

http://mandolinbridge.net/2.html

thanks!


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

Hi guys, 

sorry about the delay in response, we've been busy!

The job finished up yesterday, and the roof looks really good now--I think we (being first time roof customers) didn't realize how funky the shingles would be before they lay down, with the weather not being that warm. It's warmer now & it looks better & better. 

Ed, that other site (Allexperts) was the only other one I posted on. I got a *lot* of good information from Stan, I spent a couple of hours reading his responses to lots of questions. I got good info here as well, and thank you for your input!! When I got several answers from roofers about the warm weather & the shingles laying down, I stopped worrying about the job. The roofers did tear off the ridges after we asked them to (they may have roofed one or two at that point), but none of the ridges look bad, considering it's a 2nd layer on asphalt shingles.

When reading Stan's info on ventilation, I realized we have a good thing in a working attic fan (just got this one fixed, it didn't work when we moved in)--and we were spending $200 on 4 static roof vents. I asked our roofer if both vents & attic fan would be redundant, and we decided not to install them, with the idea of installing soffit vents a bit later, so we saved a couple hundred bucks on that. 

Re: the legality of more than one layer here (Southwestern Ohio)--I'm pretty sure it's okay, but I went to our (new) town's website & looked & looked in the regulations, could'nt find a thing anywhere about it. It's a common practice here though. I've heard you can have up to 3 layers here, but I'm not totally sure. 

All in all, we feel good about this roofing job, they cleaned up well & were nice guys. I learned a heck of a lot in the process--especially about hiring contractors next time, asking the tough questions & checking work & references.


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## elementx440 (Jan 24, 2007)

do you mind posting the price/size of your roof? I just want to hear what people are paying out there...

so what is your total venitlation system for the roof? all passive? ridge vents, fans?


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

Since we're kind of anonymous here, I guess it's okay ;-)

The house is fairly small, 1230 square feet & 100 years old, a foursquare with dormer window, hipped roof with small square (5' X 5') flat area on top. The ventilation consists of one attic fan--we need to get those soffit vents in there. Oddly, the house stays quite a bit cooler than outside, especially on the first floor (we're going to try to tough out one year w/out a/c, the house didn't have any).

So, for a smallish hipped roof with steep pitch, we paid $3200 total. We had another bid from a larger established company that was a bit over $5000 that would have included the small square area, new decking & flashing etc, their price on just the roof was pretty close to the 3200. We may have them come in & do the small flat area later on.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

So you took less of a roof than you would have liked? Meaning flashings, decking, etc? How did you get by without the decking work?


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

The guy with more details included in his scope of work was providing you a better solution to the existing roof, based on the limited amount of information you provided.

Now, after giving some other contractor the gravy part of the project, you expect him to come out and do just the hard portion for anywhere near his original breakdown price?

I am sure that his quote for that one area with all of the additional areas was predicated on his crew already being there doing the easy part of the job.

I always advise anyone, to find the contractor who is going to do the right job the first time, above others specifications and go with them for the project. If that means working out a payment plan or waiting until you have sufficient funds available, that is the surest way to choose the right contractor.

Ed


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

Good point Ed--remember you're dealing with a first time home owner, and wouldn't necessarily realize that the non-decking portion of the roof is "gravy". So I won't be surprised if that company wants more $ to do that part of the job.

Hind sight is 20/20, and we do wish we'd gone with the more thorough roofing job--we were in the middle of changing our minds when the roofers showed up. Lesson learned!

I'm not entirely convinced we need the decking in my (inexperienced) opinion--the wood is hard & seems sound, if water stained. None of it seems to be rotting, in any case. The guy who did the roofing job thought that the water (only leak we're having) is coming down inside the flue & the chimney cap might solve the problem--he thought the flashing & waterproofing around the chimney is okay. My husband did notice, in placing the cap, that there is green stuff growing inside the flue. We haven't had enough wet weather yet to see how much the cap helps.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

By the way,

The roof that we are working on, which is nearly identical to yours, used to have a flat roof on by the section of roof by the chimney.

They added new framing and decking at some point in the past to give that section the same pitch as the rest of the roof.

The roof we are dealing with had the original cedar shingle on top of ship sheathing spaced plank boards and then 3 additional layers of asphalt shingles all to be torn off and redecked with new 1/2 " 4-ply exterior grade cdx plywood sheathing and then reroofed with Tamko Heritage 30, Old English Pewter color shingles.

We are being creative for the exhaust ventilation, since the top "fake" roof section by the brick chimney is a dead air space, so we are utilizing the "Smart Vent" from DCI Products as a Roof To Wall vent for the entire perimeter around the base of the entire upper fake roof section to provide sufficient static exhaust ventilation. We are also using the Smart vent along the eaves for fresh air intake ventilation. New color coordinated sheet metal roof to wall angle counter flashings are being fabricated to cover the exhaust vent smart vents and new step and counter flashings will be fabricated and installed on the brick chimney.

Ed


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## foursquare (May 4, 2007)

thanks Ed, that was interesting and I understood some of it ;-)

We've wondered if this home is actually a Sears craftsmen made from a "kit" (it's near a train line).


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