# Alternator?



## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Yesterday our vehicle wouldn't start. Lights amd radio came on but would turn over. I installed a new battery and it's the same thing. It will take a jump, but even with a new battery it's not turning over. Is this an alternator problem?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

You may or may not have an alternator issue but even if you do the new battery should have turned it over, unless the new battery wasn't charged up. In fact your car will run with a dead alternator until the battery gets drained to where it can't power the ignition and fuel pump. So you have some other issue to resolve... I'd have the old and new batteries tested to eliminate those as the problem and go from there.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Make, model and year of car, please. Since the car won't start or crank, I am inclined to think your starter may be the issue. No crank is usually the starter if the battery is good. Good crank, no start is usually ignition system or fuel system issue.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Start with cleaning battery cable terminals. Should you have a 2 part terminal on cable, connections there also go bad. 
Lights and stuff means nothing. 
Next thing will be check on power to starter. 
Batteries ALWAYS come charged from a store.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

2003 Chevy tahoe LS V8 5.3 L

It will start on a jump, but after replacing with the new battery, it did the same thing, just sort of hummed a but when I turned the key. Fwiw- he alternator see replaced (previous owner) 8k miles ago in 2012


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

New batteries are SUPPOSED to come fully charged so it should have started properly at least the first time. It's possible the new battery is defective I guess.

When you jump it are you connecting the negative cable directly to the battery or to the frame? If you're jumping to the frame then you're effectively bypassing the ground cable coming off the battery. I would check that ground cable for a weak or corroded connection.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Now I'm thinking it's a starter issue possibly. After jumping it last night and letting it run for a few minutes I turned it off, I immediately turned the key again, and I didn't get any turnover at all.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Why would it be the starter?
By jumping the car with a different battery your taking the cars battery cables out of the circuit equation.
If it cranks with a different battery, it's not the starter, most likely a corroded or loose connection in the cables as mentioned before.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

joecaption said:


> Why would it be the starter?
> By jumping the car with a different battery your taking the cars battery cables out of the circuit equation.
> If it cranks with a different battery, it's not the starter, most likely a corroded or loose connection in the cables as mentioned before.


But I replaced the battery with a new one and I'm getting a similar response. Other than the leads on the battery cables, is there a spot I can check for corrosion to rule this out? There was no corrosion on the + / - terminals.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

How did you jump the car previously? Did you hook up the positive cable to the positive cable and the negative pole on the donor battery to a grounding location on the card to be jumped?


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Bob Sanders said:


> New batteries are SUPPOSED to come fully charged so it should have started properly at least the first time. It's possible the new battery is defective I guess.
> 
> When you jump it are you connecting the negative cable directly to the battery or to the frame? If you're jumping to the frame then you're effectively bypassing the ground cable coming off the battery. I would check that ground cable for a weak or corroded connection.


I think Bob nailed it. Where were your jumper cables placed?


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

While "checking" the cable connections at the battery, which is more than just jiggling them, in my book it's disconnecting, cleaning, and reconnecting the cables, follow the cables, and check the other ends of them, including at the fuse junction block, at the starter, and at the ground. Grounds are often overlooked, but are also often the culprits, due to the fact that they are often located in an area more subject to grit, grime, and corrosion from road salt, etc.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

47_47 said:


> I think Bob nailed it. Where were your jumper cables placed?


i hooked them up positive to positive, negative to negative

UPDATE:
II went out this morning, after letting it run for about 35 minutes last night. Turned key, all lights came on, heard a low humming sound, continued to turn key, heard the click, then nothing. The humming sound seemed to wain a bit as I kept the key turned. I cycled through this process a few times trying to listen for anything and then I turned the key and it started right up??? I'm wondering if theres an entirely separate issue altogether. 

Come to think of it, even when I've jumped it the last few days, I've had to try to turn in on several times before it actually turns over and starts. Don't know if that's helpful to anyone or not.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Take your volt meter, set it on 20 DC volts. One lead on B+ other on B-. What does it read? Have a helper try to crank engine with key. What are the these readings?


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

It's worth noting that, while the way you jumped your battery is unfortunately how most people do it, it's kind of dangerous, both from a safety standpoint and from a hurting your electrical system standpoint. Negative from the good battery is supposed to be grounded to the chassis of the car with the bad battery, not the negative terminal.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

47_47 said:


> Take your volt meter, set it on 20 DC volts. One lead on B+ other on B-. What does it read? Have a helper try to crank engine with key. What are the these readings?


I don't have a volt meter. When it's running, the voltage on the dash points to just above 14. I came across someone with a similar problems and it was the security system needing to be deactivated, which is done by cycling the key to run, start, off....maybe this explains why I've had to try and start it several times before it actually turns over?


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Did you have the new battery load tested? They do have bad new batteries. It may have enough amps to turn the lights and such on but not turn it over. 

Also when you jump started it you went battery to battery? Chevy's have a jump start terminal for the positive on the drivers side under a red box and you should have connected the negative to the alternator bracket. 

It's also possible that there is corrosion in or on one of the cables the two batteries just have enough amps to turn it over. 

Check the new battery with a load tester, most of the auto parts stores can do this. corrosion would be my next thing to look for.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

1985gt said:


> Did you have the new battery load tested? They do have bad new batteries. It may have enough amps to turn the lights and such on but not turn it over. Also when you jump started it you went battery to battery? Chevy's have a jump start terminal for the positive on the drivers side under a red box and you should have connected the negative to the alternator bracket. It's also possible that there is corrosion in or on one of the cables the two batteries just have enough amps to turn it over. Check the new battery with a load tester, most of the auto parts stores can do this. corrosion would be my next thing to look for.


I didnt have it load tested. I figured since it was doing the same thing with and without the new battery it wasn't battery related. The old battery was installed in 2011, so it's not like it was 10 yrs old or anything. I'll check for corrosion. I've found several places online that are saying security lockout...not sure how this happened though


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Turn on your headlights. Do they dim when you try to start?

Added: Put your key to run position, put your foot on the brake and move the shifter to neutral and try to start.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

47_47 said:


> Turn on your headlights. Do they dim when you try to start? Added: Put your key to run position, put your foot on the brake and move the shifter to neutral and try to start.


Just went out and it fired right up just like it's supposed to...I'm confused (but slightly happy)


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

It's not the alternator. Could be a bad ground. Sounds like ignition system error. Bad switch, bad circuit.

I had a bad switch on an old van once. It would start with a remote switch, straight from + post to solenoid but not from the key. Put ignition switch in 'run' and connect the remote switch from the + post to the solenoid connection. Push the red button and if the car starts, either the ignition switch is bad or there is a loose wire somewhere.

CAUTION!! this applies to older cars. If you have an anti theft system this might damage your car's electrical system. Don't try it unless you're positive it won't damage your vehicle.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

cibula11 said:


> Just went out and it fired right up just like it's supposed to...I'm confused (but slightly happy)


Does it start in neutral but not in park?


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Bigplanz said:


> Does it start in neutral but not in park?


 it was in park when I started it. I never tried neutral bc it started without being jumped, just like normal.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

cibula11 said:


> Just went out and it fired right up just like it's supposed to...I'm confused (but slightly happy)


Glad its running, but I would take it in. You may have a security system fault.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

I really wouldn't think a security system issue would allow it to start by jump starting it. Electrical problems are weird but unless it was a low amperage thing i wouldn't think so. 

For the record a new battery isn't always a good battery and an old battery isn't always bad. My 2005 Silverado had it's original battery until last year.

Also if the volt meter on your dash is reading 14+ that mostly eliminates your alternator.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

1985gt said:


> I really wouldn't think a security system issue would allow it to start by jump starting it. Electrical problems are weird but unless it was a low amperage thing i wouldn't think so. For the record a new battery isn't always a good battery and an old battery isn't always bad. My 2005 Silverado had it's original battery until last year. Also if the volt meter on your dash is reading 14+ that mostly eliminates your alternator.


Thanks. 
As far as the jumping goes...I'm not sure if jumping was the thing that worked or if it was just the several attempts I made to turn the key and try to start it. Even when I had cables hooked up and ran for several minutes, I'd turn the key and get nothing for the first couple of times and then it would finally turnover, so I don't really know if jumping did anything at all. 

This morning I turned the key probably 3 or 4 times and got nothing then it turned over. I think I thought it was being charges by jumping , but now I'm not sure.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Now I'm more leaning to an ignition switch intermittent malfunction or a bad relay. Usually relays are good or bad, could be a corroded connection someplace too. You don't happen to have a whole lot of keys on your key ring do you?


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

1985gt said:


> Now I'm more leaning to an ignition switch intermittent malfunction or a bad relay. Usually relays are good or bad, could be a corroded connection someplace too. You don't happen to have a whole lot of keys on your key ring do you?


Yes I do have a lot of keys on my ring. Why?

Also, found all the service docs from previous owner. Back in 2007 starts a paper trail documenting this issue...map sensor cleaned a loose connection with the ground at the engine. Starters, alternators were replaced. Also owner mentioned it tended to happen more with one set of keys than another, which I found something similar online having to do with the security system not recognizing points on a key. I might start using the other set of keys and observe any changes.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

The weight of extra keys and other objects hanging from the ignition key has been a widely recognized problem for at least some ignition switches for quite a number of years now. I can't recall if it was presented as an issue in GM's most recent front page news, but it seems like they had issues with that as far back as maybe 15 or more years ago. Anyway, based on everything posted to date, I am still leaning toward a less than desirable connection, maybe at the starter, or maybe a ground, but all the better for you if it turns out to be the ignition switch. So try it with just that key, no more than one or two others for a bit and see where it takes you. An ignition switch is easy enough to change. Well, at least they used to be. Haven't done any in a few years.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

This _might_ relate:


On my 69 Corvette, I was having some starting issues. 

Turned out to be corrosion on the negative cable where it was bolted to the frame.


That place where no one ever thinks to look....:laughing:


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

ktkelly said:


> This might relate: On my 69 Corvette, I was having some starting issues. Turned out to be corrosion on the negative cable where it was bolted to the frame. That place where no one ever thinks to look....:laughing:


 Thanks. Yeah, according to past records this looks like it was at least part of the problem. After the corrosion was cleared away, there was no more documentation of the problem. That being said, I drove it yesterday, started up 4 times without so much as a hiccup.

Now if we could get temps above zero, maybe I wouldn't mind taking a peak underneath


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> Yes I do have a lot of keys on my ring. Why?
> 
> Also, found all the service docs from previous owner. Back in 2007 starts a paper trail documenting this issue...map sensor cleaned a loose connection with the ground at the engine. Starters, alternators were replaced. Also owner mentioned it tended to happen more with one set of keys than another, which I found something similar online having to do with the security system not recognizing points on a key. I might start using the other set of keys and observe any changes.


Extra weight on the key can does a lot of bad things to ignition switches. When I was old enough to have more then 2-3 keys (two car and a house) I've always used two separate key chains. 

A map sensor would generally allow it to crank, just not fire or run. Of course starters ect will not start. 

I'd try the other keys for awhile, or just with one as suggested. On my truck key chain I have two keys, one truck one for the motorcycle. I tell my wife to do the same, although she has a lanyard or whatever also on her's and they can be just as bad.




DexterII said:


> The weight of extra keys and other objects hanging from the ignition key has been a widely recognized problem for at least some ignition switches for quite a number of years now. I can't recall if it was presented as an issue in GM's most recent front page news, but it seems like they had issues with that as far back as maybe 15 or more years ago. Anyway, based on everything posted to date, I am still leaning toward a less than desirable connection, maybe at the starter, or maybe a ground, but all the better for you if it turns out to be the ignition switch. So try it with just that key, no more than one or two others for a bit and see where it takes you. An ignition switch is easy enough to change. Well, at least they used to be. Haven't done any in a few years.



It's been an issue for well of 15 years, The current thing with GM or at least with one of them is the extra weight turns the car off (after years of wear on the ignition) and honestly most drivers panic, turn the wheel and it locks also. It would be a scary situation to be in for sure.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Ford had ignition problems for years too. If there was weight on the ignition, too many keys etc., the return spring didn't completely disengage the starter. Fords, especially in the 70s and 80s, burned up a lot of starters.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> Ford had ignition problems for years too. If there was weight on the ignition, too many keys etc., the return spring didn't completely disengage the starter. Fords, especially in the 70s and 80s, burned up a lot of starters.


Burned up a ton of solenoids also. Even in to the 90's they were still using the same system.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

1985gt said:


> Burned up a ton of solenoids also. Even in to the 90's they were still using the same system.


Since one of the reasons the previous owner took her car in was that one of the two keys was not working properly and causing a no start....it would be interesting to know if she had her set of keys weighted down and the other key was a stand alone or had less weight. 

I find all of this fascinating and equally frustrating.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> Since one of the reasons the previous owner took her car in was that one of the two keys was not working properly and causing a no start....it would be interesting to know if she had her set of keys weighted down and the other key was a stand alone or had less weight.
> 
> I find all of this fascinating and equally frustrating.


It could be, although I would be led to believe that even if one of the keys was worn out as long as the ignition physically turned it should start the car, but I guess it could be possible that with a heavier key the electrical contacts do not light up properly and would not make all of the connections.

Or it could be that that the car is telling you it's time to start shopping and this was the reason the last owner traded it in! :laughing:


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

1985gt said:


> It could be, although I would be led to believe that even if one of the keys was worn out as long as the ignition physically turned it should start the car, but I guess it could be possible that with a heavier key the electrical contacts do not light up properly and would not make all of the connections. Or it could be that that the car is telling you it's time to start shopping and this was the reason the last owner traded it in! :laughing:


I can only imagine what that would sound like, explaining to a buyer the need to use key #1 instead of #2  man, that wouldn't turn ANYONE away.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Is this vehicle covered under the ignition switch recall?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

In many or cases the GM ignition recall would not help with this. My mom has a 2006 Impala and the recall "fix" is for Chevy to install a filling plug in the key to change the slot to a small round hole and send the customer off with direction to not have anything else on the key, not even the remote fob. Pretty ridiculous IMHO....

http://www.gm.com/article.content_pages_news_us_en_2014_jun_0616-recalls.html


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