# Can a homeowner perform electrical work in MA?



## HouseHelper

Only way to know for sure is to check with *your* local authorities.


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## handyman78

Agreed- LOCAL authorities dictate what is allowed- state rules would not apply in most cases for electrical work to a residence.


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## dpd512

I actually called the State of MA Electrical Board... and the receptionist said that a homeowner can do work on their own home. This just seems so contrary to what a majority of the town websites say... so I am looking to get some opinions from people with MA knowledge. 

I am wondering if the state allows homeowners to do electrical work... but the towns dont want homeowners to do it.


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## Clutchcargo

Not only does the state does allow homeowners to do there own work, they also don't need to pull permits.


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## dpd512

*Do you mean... now allow?*

ClutchCargo... you wrote... 

The state does in fact not only allow homeowners to do there own work, they also don't need to pull permits.

I assume you you mean...

The state does in fact NOW only allow homeowners to do there own work, they also don't need to pull permits.

Do you know where this is documented? 

Thanks...


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## NateHanson

dpd512 said:


> I actually called the State of MA Electrical Board... and the receptionist said that a homeowner can do work on their own home. This just seems so contrary to what a majority of the town websites say


The state DOES allow homeowners to do their own electrical work (unlike plumbing), but some towns (who can make their own code modifications) do NOT allow it. So you need to check with your town. 


Clutchcargo said:


> The state does in fact not only allow homeowners to do there own work, they also don't need to pull permits.


I can't see how this could be true. A licensed electrician needs to get a permit and pass inspections, but a homeowner to install a new panel and rewire an entire house without the CEO even knowing about it? That can't be true. 

In the town where I lived, (lawrence) my understanding was that you could pull your own permits for electric work.


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## AllanJ

Each town is different. Generally, if a professional electrician needs to pull a permit and get inspections, a homeowner allowed to do his own work must also pull a permit and get inspections for the same scope of work.


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## Clutchcargo

I went to the building office to pull permits for electrical. The inspector said he doesn't give homeowners permits but if I could get the state electrical inspector to say it's OK, then he would give me a permit. I think he expected me to drop it but I did check with the state electrical inspector. He said flat out, "homeowners don't need to pull permits [for electrical.]" I went back to the building office and told him who I talked to and he called someone to confirm. He came back and said, "I guess you don't have any use for me then." The truth is I wanted to pull a permit and get inspected. 
Towns may have their own ordinances but generally in Massachusetts, homeowners can do their own electrical work. 

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/143-3l.htm
The key words to look for are "for hire."


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## Clutchcargo

AllanJ said:


> Each town is different. Generally, if a professional electrician needs to pull a permit and get inspections, a homeowner allowed to do his own work must also pull a permit and get inspections for the same scope of work.


 
I believe the law is written to protect the homeowner from unlicensed electricians.


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## Piedmont

Absolutely the state of MA allows you to do your own electrical work BUT requires a permit for almsot everything. I'm surprised they don't require one for shutting off a breaker or repairing holes in walls with spackle. You do have to make sure your city allows it, that state is very strict. The one thing you can't do is plumbing, as mentioned. That has to do with many streets & houses of that state have 2 drain pipes they connect to in the street... one ends up dumping into a river another a treatment plant. You attach your gutters to the one that dumps into the river, and your bathrooms etc. to the one that goes to the treatment plant. However, many people "added" a bathroom and attached the drainage to the wrong line which dumped their human waste & soaps into the rivers which the EPA has been having a field day with penalty fees to that state. MA has been spending lots of money trying to locate these houses plumbed into the wrong lines. You also have people tying their gutters into the treatment plant line, causing treatment for water which wasn't used. Wasn't just homeowners, builders were also making the mistake but now, no plumbing allowed in that state by the homeowner plumbing in that state has turned into an environmental fiasco. I remember the days in that state the old mills bathrooms "extended" some feet over the rivers. When you wanted to go to the bathroom you could look through the opening of the toilet to see the river some 20 or so feet below. I used to hold going to the bathroom when I was a tiny one, and visit my father at the mill and then excitedly tell him I had to go. I'd yell torpedo away as I watched it drop some many feet into the river and be taken. Ah... the good old days. 

Check your city if they allow it, the state does. It goes City codes 1st, State codes 2nd, Federal last for order of priorities. If your city says you can't but your state says you can... you have to follow what your city says. If Federal says you can, but your state says you can't you have to listen to your state. Federal sets the minimums, state can only be more strict, and city more stricter than either of the above. 

*EDIT* ClutchCargo posted was interesting saying you can do it without permits. It doesn't sound like the two departments are talking to each other, or confused about what it is the task. You need a permit whenever adding or modifying a circuit which, practically everything modifies or adds so needs a permit. Though, I didn't get one when I added an outlet on the other side of my vanity tying it into the GFCI outlet already there. I'm guilty.


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## Clutchcargo

Piedmont said:


> *EDIT* ClutchCargo posted was interesting saying you can do it without permits. It doesn't sound like the two departments are talking to each other, or confused about what it is the task. You need a permit whenever adding or modifying a circuit which, practically everything modifies or adds so needs a permit. Though, I didn't get one when I added an outlet on the other side of my vanity tying it into the GFCI outlet already there. I'm guilty.


Like you said it's up to the town, but there is nothing in the state law that says that homeowners are required to pull permits for electrical.


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## Eva

*fire and co detectors in MA*

Anyone please that can provide correct info it would be appreciated.

I have applied for an electrical permit as a home owner single family owner occupant, ok no prob there. Now I go to install smoke and co detectors and the fire capt is saying under fire code only a licensed electrician can do the electrical work. basically we're talking one of the simplest branch circuits far less complex then most household wiring in general. So does anyone know for a fact weather I can or can't install my own smoke and co system in my own home especially if the elctric inspector has said I can do my own work. The fire capt seems to be of the impression there is some fire code MA law prohibiting me doing the work and is rather vague and generalising. Please someone any insight would really be appreciated as the building is large and the cost of hiring someone to run what I am more then capable of doing and have done in the past would run into the thousands hiring a licensed person. I would need to site some specific code data for the cptian to budge.

help Eva


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## Termite

I'd suggest calling your town's building official and asking him. The local municipality or county adopts the code and makes the permitting requirements.

For the record, as a codes official, it is my opinion that jurisdictional rules prohibiting people from doing their own work are ridiculous and counterproductive. The intent should be to ensure that the work is done safely, and causing people to circumvent the permit/inspection process is nothing short of screwy thinking. Just because someone is licensed isn't a guarantee that they are good at what they do or consciencious, and just because they're a DIYer doesn't mean they can't do professional quality work.

Here, a homeowner can do their own work and can get a permit. In order to do work for others (as a contractor), you need a license. That keeps most of the hacks at bay.


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## TazinCR

Most places the homeowner can do their own work as KCtermite said. Also you can have someone else do the work as long as it passes inspection. However a person the does work that requires a lic. like electrical can not make you pay. This also keeps the hacks at bay.


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## Eva

*smoke alarms*

The problem here is that the electrical inspector has no problem with this, it is the fire marshal saying he has jurisdiction over electrical installations when it comes to any fire related equipment. nec code makes a distinct differentiation on fire alarms meaning a panel system and smoke alarms meaning an interconnected branch circuit. The marshal is claiming smoke alarms are fire alarms though both systems function differently and have drastically different wiring. I have done both type systems where I formerly lived. I have worked for electricians and electrical manufacture companies as well as my family owning a GC business before my father passed away that I did the bulk of this work for family under pops E license. What I need is someone versed in nefp code for fire to possibly assist me with hard data I can hand this guy to demonstrate I should be allowed to do a residential system of smoke alarms. here a panel system is regulated for electricians only to install but smoke I can find absolutely no reference to and this is why he is trying to group both together.

Further what is extremely annoying is initially the guy was saying he did not want a panel system reactivated which is already in place in the building to be used-- period. He insisted on the residential system installed at a town meeting. Now because of the square footage and such he feels a panel is better after us spending well over a thousand in materials and having obtained the electrical permit to do the install.Then he changes his mind again about the type detectors from ionized to photoelectric, again we oblige run back to the supply house and ask them to exchange them. Now he talking about using the old panel system and changing all the sensors and having to hire a licensed person to do that work though everything is already run and in place and working. It's pure obstructionism in my view and if I can site code by the book that I can in fact do a residential system myself then he has to allow me. Anyone who can help with this , it would be greatly appreciated as I have been bending over backward to comply and they keep changing the requirements. Thus far he hasn't been able to quote any law prohibiting me but he's dragging this out for no reason.

Anyone that could give me a solid answer as to quote code (fire code) whether I can do a residential smoke and co alarm system myself I would be very much obliged.There should be a prescient somewhere in code to clarify this I just haven't yet found it myself. 

thanks Eva


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## teamo

The state says that you can pull your own permit and do your own work if it is a single family home. Most of the local inspectors try to deny the permits and will give you a hard time. They count on you not being patient and appealing it to the state. If you are persistent then they will have to go by the law and allow it.


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## dSilanskas

dpd512 said:


> A question on Massachusetts electrical code... Can a homeowner perform electrical work (and pull a permit) in their single family owner occupied home?
> 
> I see some MA town websites saying all electrical work must be performed by a licensed electrician. I see other MA town websites that say that a homeowner can perform work... as long as the homeowner is working on his/her house and it is a single family primary residence.
> 
> Anyone know the truth?
> 
> Thanks...


Yes a homeowner can pull a permit and do electrical work without a electrical license in Massachusetts


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## EBFD6

Clutchcargo said:


> Not only does the state does allow homeowners to do there own work, they also don't need to pull permits.





Clutchcargo said:


> I went to the building office to pull permits for electrical. The inspector said he doesn't give homeowners permits but if I could get the state electrical inspector to say it's OK, then he would give me a permit. I think he expected me to drop it but I did check with the state electrical inspector. He said flat out, "homeowners don't need to pull permits [for electrical.]" I went back to the building office and told him who I talked to and he called someone to confirm. He came back and said, "I guess you don't have any use for me then." The truth is I wanted to pull a permit and get inspected.
> Towns may have their own ordinances but generally in Massachusetts, homeowners can do their own electrical work.





Clutchcargo said:


> Like you said it's up to the town, but there is nothing in the state law that says that homeowners are required to pull permits for electrical.


These statements are absolutely incorrect and whoever told you this does not know what they are talking about.
I am an electrician in Massachusetts, and I can tell you that the only thing electrically that can be done without pulling a permit in the state of Massachusetts is to change a light bulb. 

Every job, no matter how small, even down to changing 1 receptacle outlet is required to have a permit.

Obviously that would be a little ridiculous and is not how things work in reality, but technically that is the law.

Home owners may or may not be allowed to do their own work, the decision resides with the electrical inspector who has jurisdiction, however *HOME OWNERS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM PERMIT LAWS!*


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## EBFD6

teamo said:


> The state says that you can pull your own permit and do your own work if it is a single family home. Most of the local inspectors try to deny the permits and will give you a hard time. They count on you not being patient and appealing it to the state. If you are persistent then they will have to go by the law and allow it.


This is also an incorrect statement!

There is no law in the state of Massachusetts that allows an unlicensed person to do electrical work of any kind.

Some inspectors will allow home owners to do their own electrical work on a single family dwelling in which they reside (not a multi-family or rental property), however they are not required to allow any unlicensed person to do electrical work. If they feel you are not qualified to safely and correctly perform the work they can deny the issuance of a permit, and as I stated before, home owners are subject to the same permit and inspection rules as licensed electrical contractors are.

Home owners are only allowed to do electrical work based on precedence and not on any legal rights*. NO SUCH LAW EXISTS! *


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## Termite

The fire inspector shouldn't be enforcing the fire code in a single family residence. He should be enforcing the International Residential Code in your home, and there isn't any need to enforce more than that. I'd start there. 

He is obligated to provide you applicable code sections that permit him to enforce the requirements he's enforcing. Ask for a meeting at his office and request that he cite specific code to qualify his requirements. If he won't do that, file a written complaint with the City Manager or Mayors office.


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## Eva

*inspectors*

As a follow up to the fire marshal situation. He did check I suppose with his superiors or the fire code book itself or maybe was inspired by a religious revelation but he is allowing me to do the work and signed the permit. Interesting fact is the code book for fire isn't even in the library but I did manage to find someone who had one and it's like ten times the size of the NEC book and way too many chapters. it sort of resembles a Thomas dieectory. His only hitch is that he wants the electric inspector to sign off on it when it's done. That would be normal anyway since the electrical inspector has to sign off on the job overall. My point of contention was me being allowed to do the labor since the building is very difficult to run anything in . The cost of hiring someone would have been monumental. The fire code which he sited has some wording that a "qualified" person do the work, but makes no define of what qualified means, it does not specifically state a licensed person. The marshals interpretation of that clause is that it need be supervised by someone licensed meaning the inspector follow up. I see it more as a CYA polocy and little more. I can live with it the way it is and have no beef doing it this way. I was going to go balistic if I was told I had to pay a few thousand to deal with this simply circuit where the cable running in this was the bulk of the expense. So problem basically solved for the moment and we'll see what other monsters rear their head, hopfully none. Thanks everyone for their comments and time, wish me luck.

The town code was more interesting when I looked that up. I didn't make an issue of it but there is "no" town requirment for the fire inspector to be involved at all in a residential smoke or co alarm nor any state requirment from what the state said. I suppose if I wanted to waste my time in court I could contest his involvment in the matter, but I doubt it would win me community points or make political friends for sure. Basically the issue is solve the problem and not be the poster girl for law, renovating the house is enough work for this old gal..

regards Eva


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## Termite

Well, it sounds like it is going to work out. I sure am sorry to hear that they're making it so hard on you. :no: These guys are way out in left field.


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## Clutchcargo

EBFD6 said:


> These statements are absolutely incorrect and whoever told you this does not know what they are talking about.


The state electrical inspector told me this. I suppose he could be full of it, but probably not.




EBFD6 said:


> I am an electrician in Massachusetts, and I can tell you that the only thing electrically that can be done without pulling a permit in the state of Massachusetts is to change a light bulb.
> 
> Every job, no matter how small, even down to changing 1 receptacle outlet is required to have a permit.
> 
> Obviously that would be a little ridiculous and is not how things work in reality, but technically that is the law.
> 
> Home owners may or may not be allowed to do their own work, the decision resides with the electrical inspector who has jurisdiction, however *HOME OWNERS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM PERMIT LAWS!*


Can you site the law that declares that homeowners are required to pull permits? I've done my due diligence to show that homeowners are not required to pull permits.



EBFD6 said:


> Home owners are only allowed to do electrical work based on precedence and not on any legal rights*. NO SUCH LAW EXISTS! *


 Laws basically tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do.


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## oneearth

*Unresolved permitting question MA*

This thread stopped a year ago on a strong point of contention. The DIYer seemed sure that the State of Mass allowed the home owner to do their own electrical work. The electrician said no way. I have owned many homes in many jurisdictions and it is rare for a tradesperson to actually know what the rules are when it comes to permits. The norm is for them to believe whatever the local inspector tells them. This is an obvious case of self interest at play. What is really annoying is the belligerent know it all attitude of some tradespeople.
In Mass the homeowner does have rights enshrined in Mass general Law that allow them to do a significant amount of work to their home. I have heard of numerous contracters telling people otherwise. It is my understanding that electrical work falls within the work allowed. My local inspector disagrees.


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## Piedmont

I would have to say, my local inspector also disagrees homeowners can do their own work in MA. I went to do my due diligence to pull a permit to add a simple outlet to a utility room and was denied, only a licensed electrician can pull permits I was told. So I do exactly as thekctermite says people will do and just do **** on my own without pulling permits and with no inspections so it's counterproductive for both the state financially and my safety. I'm sorry but I am not hiring an electrician to install an outlet in a utility room especially since the breaker panel is right there. I do hire electricians for stuff I prefer like I hired an electrician to wire hard wired smoke detectors in my house, hired him again to replace my service , and wire my solar. 

Meanwhile my coworker who lives in the next town over in MA just pulled the permit as a homeowner to add a subpanel and do all the electricals himself to finish his basement and the electrical inspector is assisting him with his plans and educating him on the rules. Wow... wish I lived in the next town over :yes:


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## Scuba_Dave

2 different Towns & I've pulled my own electric permit in both
To deny a homeowner the ability to pull a permit & have work completed & inspected will just force people to do the work without inspections

It's counter productive & defeats the whole purpose of permit/inspection process IMO


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## robc

*Is it legal for home owners doing electrical work in Massachusetts.*

From what I know as an electrical inspector for 30 years for three different towns in Mass is that the State Attorney General's office may state that they would allow a homeowner to do their own electrical work, but unless there is a licensed electrician who has applied for a "permit to perform electrical wiring" and has had a "Certificate of Liability" insurance issued to the "Inspector of Wiring" office, then the inspector has the right to refuse an inspection. 
The State Licensing Board states that the local municipal inspector is not required to inspect unless a licensed qualified person files a permit with him. This was from the head of the board in the early 90's.
I see no reason why not allowing non qualified people to do electrical work infringes upon peoples rights. These laws protect children and innocent people from these so called "I know what I'm doing" non professionals.
People have been killed as a result of these types of people. Robc.


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## Scuba_Dave

And people have also been killed by work done by "certified/licensed electricians"
A company only needs one certified electrican & then any yahoo untrained person can work for them
I spent 3 days cleaning up after the "electricians" that installed my new Service Feed & 200a panel
Pathetic job & even the Inspector did not like it after I talked to him & wen over the issues

I trust the work I do better then electricians
It's my house that might burn down
So I check it multiple times before the drywall goes up

And refusing to issue permits to homeowners only makes them do it without a permit or inspection
Which is even worse

So they don't have to inspect it.....that's idiotic if they don't
I'd rather have the inspection


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## Gary in WA

The owner can waiver a Company’s lack of liability insurance:
http://www.frcog.org/services/coop_inspect/apps/eapp.pdf

What? http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/141-1a.htm

A Journeyman can have one apprentice: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/141-8.htm

Ouch! http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/141-5.htm

#(9), ask to see his card: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/141-3.htm

Enjoy! More fuel for the fire……

Be safe, Gary


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## EBFD6

Scuba_Dave said:


> A company only needs one certified electrican & then any yahoo untrained person can work for them


What?! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about! A company has to hire licensed electricians. They need to maintain a 1 to 1 ratio of licensed to non-licensed workers on each job. This means every licensed electrician can only supervise 1 unlicensed apprentice. Some states allow 1 licensed guy on the job and the rest can be unlicensed monkeys, Massachusetts does not. Before making ignorant statements do some research.


Scuba_Dave said:


> I spent 3 days cleaning up after the "electricians" that installed my new Service Feed & 200a panel
> Pathetic job & even the Inspector did not like it after I talked to him & wen over the issues


The fact that you hired an incompetent electrician does not mean that all electricians are incompetent. You can find good and bad in any profession. A doctor who barely passed his board exam is still a doctor. Do some research and check references before hiring someone to work on your house.


Scuba_Dave said:


> I trust the work I do better then electricians
> It's my house that might burn down


Another ignorant statement. Do you honestly think that the little bit of Internet reading and the wiring 1,2,3 book from Home Depot makes you more qualified than the 8000 hr apprenticeship, 600 hrs of code classes, and 12 years of experience doing electrical work everyday that I have. I mean, electrical work isn't brain surgery but, but I would put my qualifications up against yours any day of the week and twice on Sundays.



Scuba_Dave said:


> And refusing to issue permits to homeowners only makes them do it without a permit or inspection
> Which is even worse
> 
> So they don't have to inspect it.....that's idiotic if they don't
> I'd rather have the inspection


This part of your post I agree with, and was what I was trying to convey in my statements a year ago in this thread. I am not against homeowners doing their own electrical work. I am not anti-DIY. I am an electrician, but I do my own plumbing, carpentry, drywall, vehicle repairs, masonry, etc...

My point originally is that whether home owners can do their own electrical work in Massachusetts is a decision of each individual wiring inspector. Some allow it, some don't. My biggest issue in this thread was with the guy who said "home owners don't need to pull permits". That is BS, plain and simple. The permit and inspection process is for everyone, not just licensed contractors. I would argue that inspections are actually more important for DIY projects, because they need their work checked to make sure things were done properly.

I'm not trying to pick on you Scuba Dave but, you said "It's my house that might burn down", while that might be true right now, it is your house, what happens when you sell it in 20 years. Now it's someone else's house, and someone else's family who's lives you are putting in danger. Electrical issues are not always immediately evident. Sometimes it takes years for issues to arise. A staple banged in a little too tight, the wires arc, over years and years of arcing it gets worse and worse, the wire insulation degrades over time until finally the stud catches on fire. This could take 10, 15, 20 years to occur. Yes, AFCI breakers are now required and should prevent this issue. This is just one example of something that could go wrong, there are plenty of other problems that can arise from shoddy workmanship, improper grounding, etc...

This is a touchy subject for me as I had a similar issue last Thursday. I had a chimney fire that spread into my walls. Luckily the fire department got there quickly and the fire was contained to only 3 or 4 stud bays behind the wood stove. The issue was, when the wood stove was installed 20 years ago, by a previous home owner, the stove pipe was not connected to the chimney properly and the fire was able to get out a small space between the thimble and the chimney. I know the previous home owner, I know he did a lot of work on this house himself and I would not be surprised if most of it was unpermitted and not inspected. Because of his shoddy workmanship I could have lost my house a week before Christmas, gee thanks!

My point to this whole rant is, if you're gonna do you're own work (not just electrical, any work) please know what you are doing, pull a permit, and get it inspected. It's not just your families life and property you are putting at risk.

/rant


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## Scuba_Dave

Yes I do better work
I've seen to much crap & had too many electricians tell me what they would do & it was "OK"
Many do not keep up with current code, I do

Why should I pay someone to learn electric while working on my house ?
Yes supposed to be 1:1 ...real world - not

I research what I do, so yes I'm confident what I do meets or exceeds code
I don't own a 1-2-3 book from HD, I have the NEC 2005 & access 2008 online


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## EBFD6

This guy was pretty proud of himself also. 

















He was so good, and didn't even need a code book.


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## Scuba_Dave

Yeah go right ahead & take pics of stupid work
Is that all ya got ?


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## EBFD6

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yeah go right ahead & take pics of stupid work
> Is that all ya got ?


Dude, don't get yer panties in a bunch. I was just bustin' your chops a little. I'm sure you do great work, and even if you don't I couldn't care less.

My point, and the only reason I'm even involved in this thread, was to encourage everyone to pull a permit and get inspections. The thought that permits and inspections are for professionals only is ridiculous. I think this is a point that you and I are in agreement on.

The rest of post was just me defending my profession a little that's all. I'm real proud of you that you know how to do a little residential wiring. It isn't rocket science, and is about as basic as electrical work gets. Receptacles. and lights, wow, look out!

I don't make my living wiring houses, I am a commercial/industrial service electrician, the only residential work I do are small favors for existing commercial/industrial customers and side work for friends/family.

I just find it funny when weekend warriors tell me all about how much they know about code or think they are master electricians because they have conquered the three way switch. There is much more to being an electrician than wiring houses.

Like I said, I'm sure you're the best thing to happen to the electrical world since the invention of the wirenut. I didn't realize you were so sensitive, and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Now if you'll excuse me I just watched a couple of episodes of ER and I'm going to run over to the Hospital to tell the doctors all the stuff I know about being a trauma surgeon.


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## Scuba_Dave

Yes, I fully agree on the permits & inspections
Here we have to sign a paper as a homeowner doing our own work
If any issues are found then the Inspector can request an electrician is brought in to remedy the problem
So basically if you know what you are doing no problem
If your work is junk then you have to hire an electrician
Seems fair to me...funny thing is my BIL, who is very detail orientated - had to hire an electrician to finish his work per Inspector
He actually works in electronics ( has (had ?) his own company - but boat repair - radar etc

If you had read some of my other posts you would know that I have admitted that I probably know 10% of what is required to become an electrician
Since that includes commercial - which I have not researched
Could I do it....sure
Yes house wiring is fairly simple...especially if you can do it :wink:
I guess you'll be a doctor next....good luck


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## EBFD6

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yes, I fully agree on the permits & inspections
> Here we have to sign a paper as a homeowner doing our own work
> If any issues are found then the Inspector can request an electrician is brought in to remedy the problem
> So basically if you know what you are doing no problem
> If your work is junk then you have to hire an electrician
> Seems fair to me...funny thing is my BIL, who is very detail orientated - had to hire an electrician to finish his work per Inspector
> He actually works in electronics ( has (had ?) his own company - but boat repair - radar etc


That's how it should be. If you are capable of doing your own work, great. If you are going to kill yourself or someone else with your work, hire someone!


Scuba_Dave said:


> If you had read some of my other posts you woull know that I have admitted that I probably know 10% of what is required to become an electrician
> Since that includes commercial - which I have not researched
> Could I do it....sure
> Yes house wiring is fairly simple...especially if you can do it
> I guess you'll be a doctor next....good luck


I have read plenty of your posts, and you are a well informed DIYer. Like I said before, I'm just having a little fun with you. :thumbup:

No hard feelings I hope.:thumbsup:

I had an emergency appendectomy on Saturday and have some free time on my hands now since I won't be able to work for a couple of weeks.(actually, can barely move off the couch)

I've been stirring the pot on here and some of the other forums I belong too. You'll probably see a lot of me over the next couple of weeks. (I'm sooooo freaking bored). Don't take anything I say too personally, it's probably the Percocet talking.:laughing:

Take care, have a good holiday!


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## HIVOLT

LOL!! Being an AHJ you are correct when you stated that a permit has to be pulled for all work. A homeowner cannot be denied a permit to perform work in his own single family home. I issue permits to homeowners but they are told they have one crack at their attempt to do the work. If I am called to inspect the rough and I find a violations they are told to cease all work, get an electrician and I cancel the permit.

My job is to protect the safety of the public. I probably can go into any person's home and find some type of code violation. A simple plate or box cover missing is a code violation. But if a homeowner wants to do their own work and not pull a permit and get the work inspected whose lives are they endangering.

Case in poit, several years ago at 2 AM I got a call from the Fire Department about a house fire. The fire started in the finished basement it was concluded that it was an electrical fire. Several weeks later an Insurance Investgator came into the office and asked to see all permits for the home. There were not any permits for the basement bathroom or the finished basement. The homeowner admitted to the insurance company that other than the plumbing he did all the work. The insurance company did not pay on the claim. So for a simple $50 permit he lost he had an out of pocket expense of 30K.


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## Scuba_Dave

That's the ONE main reason I always pull a permit
It's the long run you need to worry about
People are worried about paying more taxes when they improve their home
But that's how it works, make your home more valuable you pay more taxes
I thought of not pulling a permit for my 3 story addition...but thought they _just might notice_ :laughing:

EBFD6 - I guarantee you I am more bored
Now that the cold & snow are in work on the addition has ceased
I've got cabin fever & need to get back into FT work
No hard feelings, I'm very sure that electicians run into LOTS of DIY work that falls well below any Min standard
I experienced it myself at my last house 
I've met people that should not even have a drivers permit
Best wishes on a speedy recovery

I almost wish that there was a little test homeowners had to take before being issued a permit
Even as simple as normal colors of wire, gauges to use etc
But more Govt is not always a good thing

I think I am done with the little Christmas shopping I had to do (for wife)
Wife shops for our son
Plus I've reviewed the 2 DVD's players she bought & she can now return them :whistling2:
I did pick one out....she didn't get it...these were $10 less.....:no:


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## HandyPete

Piedmont said:


> Absolutely the state of MA allows you to do your own electrical work BUT requires a permit for almsot everything. I'm surprised they don't require one for shutting off a breaker or repairing holes in walls with spackle. You do have to make sure your city allows it, that state is very strict. The one thing you can't do is plumbing, as mentioned. That has to do with many streets & houses of that state have 2 drain pipes they connect to in the street... one ends up dumping into a river another a treatment plant. You attach your gutters to the one that dumps into the river, and your bathrooms etc. to the one that goes to the treatment plant. However, many people "added" a bathroom and attached the drainage to the wrong line which dumped their human waste & soaps into the rivers which the EPA has been having a field day with penalty fees to that state. MA has been spending lots of money trying to locate these houses plumbed into the wrong lines. You also have people tying their gutters into the treatment plant line, causing treatment for water which wasn't used. Wasn't just homeowners, builders were also making the mistake but now, no plumbing allowed in that state by the homeowner plumbing in that state has turned into an environmental fiasco. I remember the days in that state the old mills bathrooms "extended" some feet over the rivers. When you wanted to go to the bathroom you could look through the opening of the toilet to see the river some 20 or so feet below. I used to hold going to the bathroom when I was a tiny one, and visit my father at the mill and then excitedly tell him I had to go. I'd yell torpedo away as I watched it drop some many feet into the river and be taken. Ah... the good old days.
> 
> Check your city if they allow it, the state does. It goes City codes 1st, State codes 2nd, Federal last for order of priorities. If your city says you can't but your state says you can... you have to follow what your city says. If Federal says you can, but your state says you can't you have to listen to your state. Federal sets the minimums, state can only be more strict, and city more stricter than either of the above.
> 
> .


I disagree, The Plumbing Code was written way before the "two pipe system" existed. I'm guessing it's a safety and health reason. First, the code prevents fresh water getting contaminated from the sewer and second, the code prevent dangerous accumulations of sewer gases that could cause health problems and even explosions.

There's also structural issues (weight of piping, water damage), fire prevention, comfort, geee....all kinds of cool stuff.

_pete


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## HandyPete

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yes I do better work
> I've seen to much crap & had too many electricians tell me what they would do & it was "OK"
> Many do not keep up with current code, I do
> 
> Why should I pay someone to learn electric while working on my house ?
> Yes supposed to be 1:1 ...real world - not
> 
> I research what I do, so yes I'm confident what I do meets or exceeds code
> I don't own a 1-2-3 book from HD, I have the NEC 2005 & access 2008 online



Scary, I'm a licensed master electrician and "keeping up with the code" hasn't made me a better electrician what-so-ever. What does qualify me is my 35 years of experience. I have 120 some odd electricians working for me and most are pretty poor when it comes to the nitty-gritty code questions (that's my job) BUT, these guys do great work and I've never had to deal with a fire or electrocution.

Merry Christmas!

_Pete

BTW, Scuba-Dave, you are good, I've read a lot of you post and admire your technical know-how.


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## Thurman

We are on a subject which is a topic of conversation at least every day during breakfast or lunch between *we* Licensed Contractors. I will go out on a (probably big/thick) limb and say "Each municipal jurisdiction has it's own codes/requirements as to work done under different trades, while each municipality (probably) cannot violate State Laws". Around here, a _homeowner_-not renter/leaser's, may do _any_ electrical work on his/her _own home. _In the county I live in the homeowner _does not_ have to pull any permit for electrical. Withing the City Limits, which are withing the County, a permit must be pulled by the _homeowner _for doing the work themselves. Hmmm, within the three counties which border ours--The _principal homeowner_ does not have to pull permits and can do the electrical work themselves on their own home. Sound too easy? There is a catch, and a good one--IF either of the three (3) local power companies around here _have to pull the meter_ for any of this work, the meter cannot be replaced _without an inspection _by a Licensed Electrician and proper paperwork signed off by the L.E. Good deal IMO. Plumbing is a different story-homeowner/renters/leaser's may only do minor interior plumbing repair jobs without pulling permits. We have three (3) real plumbing supply houses here which discourage homeowners from buying from them. But legally they cannot refuse. HVAC is a totally different area here. It's very restricted. I stay confused--which is more dangerous to work with: Electrical, Plumbing, or HVAC? The local HVAC contractors are working together again to have the big apron stores barred from selling any "parts" which would be for HVAC work. The had this done some years ago, and when HD came into town (Yep-across from Lowe's), HD fought and won the right to sell a lot of HVAC type materials. I will go on record as being opposed to "Federal Government Universal Health-Care" but would like to see some type of Universal Language as to proper permitting of trades and some type of Language on "Homeowner's Rights" as to what they can or cannot do on their _own _primary residence. Merry Christmas, David


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## texelect

*adding two more cents*



HandyPete said:


> Scary, I'm a licensed master electrician and "keeping up with the code" hasn't made me a better electrician what-so-ever. What does qualify me is my 35 years of experience. I have 120 some odd electricians working for me and most are pretty poor when it comes to the nitty-gritty code questions (that's my job) BUT, these guys do great work and I've never had to deal with a fire or electrocution.
> 
> Merry Christmas!
> 
> _Pete
> 
> BTW, Scuba-Dave, you are good, I've read a lot of you post and admire your technical know-how.


I agree that keeping up with the code in itself doesn't make someone a good electrician, but a good electrician should know how to use the code book. And I don't mean memorizing it. I've come across plenty of inspectors that not only don't know the code book as well as they should, but think that their job is to make up the code instead of enforce it.

As for other postings on this thread, sometimes the answers to questions aren't so complicated. The electrical code book used (NFPA70) is a national code book with few amendments made on a state level. The code is mandatory and inforced uniformly within the state, not county or city. When an article is brought up to vote to become part of the national code there is also a declared reason of intent for the specific article (these are actually recorded and published in a separate publication called either the Green Book or the White Book). This reason of intent actually clarifies what the article addresses, and this is the actual interpretation of the specific adopted article. Yeah I've actually thumbed through this publication. So to cut back to my point, unlike fire prevention jurisdiction (where everything is left up to the local jurisdiction) electrical inspectors don't have the authority or jurisdiction to supersede the NFPA, state amendments or State laws and regulations. Technically and legally they don't and can't call the shots, but they can sure as hell slow things down.

Mass general law pretty much dictates verbaetum that anyone not engaged in the business of installation, maintaining yady yady ya of wiring (not for hire) does not need to follow the same permit and inspection procedure that us pros do. So yes a homeowner legally has the right to pull a permit and do his own work. Mass G.L. c143, s.3L is where to look. Inspectors don't like it, but if your persistent enough they have no choice.


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## Scuba_Dave

The problem is you won't get a CO on an addition unless you have the electric inspected
So sort of a Catch 22
Several people have run into an area where they will not issue a permit
I actually welcome the Inspection (sort of) 
I know they won't catch everything, but the Inspector around here is pretty good

I think I have a very good Building Dept
I guess maybe they know me better then most homeowners :laughing:


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## codeone

EBFD6 said:


> I don't make my living wiring houses, I am a commercial/industrial service electrician, the only residential work I do are small favors for existing commercial/industrial customers and side work for friends/family.
> .


In my line of work these make the worst Residential Electricians.
I'm not saying you persay most commercial/industrial electricians dont have a clue about residential code.

Can spot one upon entering a house. Also can spot most homeowners work also. 

Life is very interesting in the Code Enforcement field.:thumbsup:


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## jerryh3

Scuba_Dave said:


> The problem is you won't get a CO on an addition unless you have the electric inspected
> So sort of a Catch 22
> Several people have run into an area where they will not issue a permit
> I actually welcome the Inspection (sort of)
> I know they won't catch everything, but the Inspector around here is pretty good
> 
> I think I have a very good Building Dept
> I guess maybe they know me better then most homeowners :laughing:


Speaking of that... According to the Building inspection department, a certified electrician must apply for an electrical permit. Have you ever had trouble getting a permit?


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## codeone

texelect said:


> And I don't mean memorizing it. I've come across plenty of inspectors that not only don't know the code book as well as they should, but think that their job is to make up the code instead of enforce it.
> .


Agreed, What is really flustrating is when you have inspectors in the same jurisdiction now agreeing. However the code does not always address every exact installation. You also have Jurisdictions that require their inspectors to do multitrade inspections. There is no way an inspector can remember every code in any one trade, even the single trade inspectors.
There is also no way a contractor can either espically with building trade and electrical. Its always a learning process. You are absolutely right about not being able to enforce opinions, an inspector could suggest good practice for a good reason but he or she cannot by law enforce it.


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## codeone

texelect said:


> (not for hire) does not need to follow the same permit and inspection procedure that us pros do. .


Do not agree with this statement. The Homeowner would have to follow the same permitting and inspection process but would not have to follow the same Liscening process or requirements.


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## Scuba_Dave

jerryh3 said:


> Speaking of that... According to the Building inspection department, a certified electrician must apply for an electrical permit. Have you ever had trouble getting a permit?


Nope no problems whatsoever
You are in Maryland but called my building Dept ??


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## jerryh3

Scuba_Dave said:


> Nope no problems whatsoever
> You are in Maryland but called my building Dept ??


Didn't call. Just emailed. This email got me curious so I wanted to see what the requirements were in various locations in MA. I knew you had pulled permits so I just wanted to see what was actually enforced.


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## Clutchcargo

codeone said:


> Do not agree with this statement. The Homeowner would have to follow the same permitting and inspection process but would not have to follow the same Liscening process or requirements.


It's all in the interpretation of law, but I did check and no permit requirement for homeowners is the law. Locally, they could give you a hard time but I got my local spark inspector to respect the state electrical inspector's interpretation of the law.


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## codeone

Clutchcargo said:


> It's all in the interpretation of law, but I did check and no permit requirement for homeowners is the law. Locally, they could give you a hard time but I got my local spark inspector to respect the state electrical inspector's interpretation of the law.


Thats why you have to check local laws, here in NC a homeowner still has to have a permit and inspections just not a liscense.:thumbsup:


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## texelect

codeone said:


> Do not agree with this statement. The Homeowner would have to follow the same permitting and inspection process but would not have to follow the same Liscening process or requirements.


You may be right on this, but (and there's always one of these), in the Massachusetts general laws, I believe the way that its worded is in reference to permitting and the time frame for notification and response time of the inspector. None the less, bottom line is there are always methods to drag the process out and in the long run the job (homeowner, contractor etc.) looses.

I by no means advocate skilled labor performed by unskilled laborers. I respect the fact that I and others have dedicated so much of our time to learn, get licensed and continue to learn.


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## WBElectric

*homeowners in MA*

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread. If so, you may consider reading Chapter 141 of the M.G.L. (Massachusetts General Law) and see all work must be performed by a licensed Journeyman Electrician. Section 1 states: Section 1A. No person, firm or corporation shall enter into, engage in, or work at the business or occupation of installing wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances for carrying or using electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes, unless such person, firm or corporation shall be licensed by the state examiners of electricians in accordance with this chapter and, with respect to security systems, unless such person, firm or corporation shall also be licensed by the commissioner of public safety in accordance with the provisions of sections fifty-seven to sixty-one, inclusive, of chapter one hundred and forty-seven. I believe a homeowner falls in the category of 'person'. Also, the inspector of wires is as responsible as the electrician should the inspector deem the electrician's work as adequate. Proper training, education, experience and licensing minimize one's risk of liability. In one post the 'homeowner' stated he was comfortable with his DIY wiring. A reply questioned the safety of future owners. What about the safety of his visitors and guests? Trust a properly trained, qualified, licensed and insured professional. WB


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## Scuba_Dave

> No person, firm or corporation shall enter into, engage in, or *work at the business or occupation* of


This has been debated over & over 
I'm a homeowner...I'm not running a business...so I am allowed to work on my own home

I dealt with a licensed properly trained electrician
I spent 3 days cleaning up his mess & took me 3 weeks to get back my $50 wire cutters he took with him


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## dSilanskas

Scuba_Dave said:


> This has been debated over & over I'm a homeowner...I'm not running a business...so I am allowed to work on my own home


Yes you are :thumbsup:


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## HooKooDooKu

Scuba_Dave said:


> I'm a homeowner...I'm not running a business...


That was my first thoughs in reading the "LAW" that was quoted...

Break it down this way:

"No person, firm or corporation..."
the who

"...shall..."
self explanitory


"...enter into, engage in, or work at..."
various forms of "do"

"...the business or occupation of..."
multiple forms of "professional work" or "get paid to..."

"installing [electrical stuff]..."



So my interpretation of the English is this law quoted would be...
"No person shall do electrical stuff for payment".


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## Scuba_Dave

His work sucked plain & simple - I would never call him a Pro
The Inspector was even upset when I pointed out the work that the Pro did
If he ever does work in an area that my Inspector checks he will find his work inspected very closely


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## Clutchcargo

As I've discovered, a lot of time, inspectors just take the pros word for it. I'm sure the inspector didn't pull the panel cover off on my wife's shop before he signed off on the permit.


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## debiasio

I called the building dept in my town in MA and the electrical inspector can pull permits for homeowners. It costs $40. He of course can approve or disapprove it. I hope he lets homeowners do their own work, within reason. I can't afford an electrican to come in and do every little thing. I am new at electrical work, but I have an electrical background, am conscientious, and feel like I can do a good job. 

How does the permit process carry out for a typical homeowner doing their own work? In my case, I want to replace old 2-wire NM with grounded wire. So I apply and pay for the permit, do the work, and have the inspector come look at it? Or do they inspect your work at different stages of the project?

What if, at some point during my work, I decide to modify a little more wiring, beyond what I described in the app. Would the EI give me hell for doing something I technically didn't apply for?

In my house most of the wiring is old, but some of it looks newer, probably done within the past few years. Would the EI ever call into question the newer wiring, and ask if a permit was pulled for it?


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## Proby

Just call up the inspector and ask. Being on good terms with the inspector goes a long way. If you want to do a little more work or change something, give him a call and he'll let you know if you if it's covered under the permit or if he is going to amend it.

He might call into question the newer wiring, that is why being open and upfront with your intentions will help you. You might have an inspector that doesn't give a crap or you might have one that inspects everything with a microscope. Either way, letting him know that you are doing everything by the book will help.


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## debiasio

That is good advice. 

Does the work that an electrician performs always get inspected?


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## mish

Is is true that you can start electrical work prior to pulling a permit?

The electrian who is doing work on my house told me he has 5 days to obtain a permit, he's doing the work now. I thought that was rather odd.

Also, once work is complete, it needs to be inspected by city inspector? 
Can some one please advice.


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## Scuba_Dave

Where are you located ?


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## mish

Boston, MA


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## Scuba_Dave

I've never heard of pulling the permit after work has been started
Unless its when the office's are closed & its emergency work

Yes, it needs to be inspected
Here 2 are required...rough inspection....then final


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## mish

Scuba_Dave said:


> I've never heard of pulling the permit after work has been started
> Unless its when the office's are closed & its emergency work
> 
> Yes, it needs to be inspected
> Here 2 are required...rough inspection....then final


he claimed to have 5 grace days. and what's also odd is that after he gets the permit, he'll wait a couple of days to call an inspector. Why not get the permit and call the inspector the same day.


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## Scuba_Dave

mish said:


> he claimed to have 5 grace days. and what's also odd is that after he gets the permit, he'll wait a couple of days to call an inspector. Why not get the permit and call the inspector the same day.


Probably because there really aren't 5 grace days
If he pulls the permit & then asks for an inspection the same day they will know he did the work 1st without a permit


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## Mashole

MA General Laws, Part I, Title XX, Chapter 143, Section 3L, Paragraph 4, states:

No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within *five days after commencing the work* giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.


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## Gary in WA

lol.... there is one you should probably bookmark, Dave. 

That must have taken some research! If it's anything like my State Codes, what a headache.....

Welcome to the forum, Mashole.

Gary


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## medfieldr

*Planning ahead*

I live in MA and am about to pull a permit for finishing my basement. I want to do the electrical work myself and spoke to the wiring inspector today. I can confirm most of what was said on this board. I have the right to pull the permit, but I already met some resistance. He said that "he often runs into problems with homeowners doing the work and advises my to get a licensed electrician".
That said, I am wondering if I need to be worried about "preexistng" work in my home that might cause me problems at inspection time. The wiring in and around the panel looks more like the negative example photo that was posted earlier. 
The house was new when I bought it 5 years ago and of course all this was inspected before, but: should I invite the inspector to "sign off" on the prior work before I start, so that he can't deny his signature on the grounds of something that I did not do? Has anybody run into this? I assume I can take pictures of everything before I start, but I'd rather save myself the hassle.


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## SD515

You might want to contact the inspector and see if he would look at what you have and what you propose to do, before you start work. Doesn't hurt to ask. Either way, taking before and after pictures is an excellent idea.


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## vvzz

Does anyone have experience pulling electrical permits in the actual city of Boston. The website says that electrical permits need to be pulled by a licensed electrician, but of course that contradicts the MGL. I'm wondering if anyone has actual personal experience with inspective services.


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## levtron

*Finish work?*

I had an electrician pull a permit, and do all the rough work. all was inspected and we put up the walls. He came back to start the finish work, got most of it done, and then disappeared. I finally got a hold of him and he informed me that his company is being sued (internal conflict between partners) and he wont be able to finish.

There are a few outlets and switches left. Can I finish it up and call for the final myself and remove the original electrician from the permit?

I am in Natick Ma.


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## chieftaing

I've read this 5 page thread, read the MGL sections that apply, and have the following question:

The actual ability for a homeowner to pull a permit in the governing town/city/etc seems to vary. If I live in a town whose inspector says - "No, we don't give permits to homeowners" - what is my recourse?

I have done home electrical work that has been inspected and passed a bunch of times before, a few here in MA, once in NJ. I would like my work to be inspected, not only to ensure its correct, but also so that homeowners insurance is not compromised.

Before I approach my town's inspector, what are the *facts* here? Thanks.


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## goosebarry

chieftaing said:


> I've read this 5 page thread, read the MGL sections that apply, and have the following question:
> 
> The actual ability for a homeowner to pull a permit in the governing town/city/etc seems to vary. If I live in a town whose inspector says - "No, we don't give permits to homeowners" - what is my recourse?
> 
> I have done home electrical work that has been inspected and passed a bunch of times before, a few here in MA, once in NJ. I would like my work to be inspected, not only to ensure its correct, but also so that homeowners insurance is not compromised.
> 
> Before I approach my town's inspector, what are the *facts* here? Thanks.


527 CMR 12.00 (Massachussets Electrical Code) Admendment 90.6
90.6 Interpretations and Appeals. To promote uniformity of interpretation and application of the provisions of this Code, interpretations may be requested from the Board of Fire Prevention Regulations. Requests for interpretation shall be in the form of a question that can receive a "Yes" or "No" answer. This in no way supersedes the right of any individual who is aggrieved by the decision of an Inspector of Wires to appeal from that decision to the Board of Electricians' Appeals in accordance with M.G.L. c. 143, § 3P. The Board of Fire Prevention Regulations shall, upon the request of the Board of Electricians' Appeals, render interpretations to the Board of Electricians' Appeals. 

Ask the question: Can the owner of a standalone, owner occupied single family residence perform their own eletrical work?
If owner of a standalone, owner occupied single family residence perform their own eletrical work performs their own eletrical work, do they require a permit?

In Massachusetts Cities and Towns derive authority from the state. Under MGL 143 Section 3L, for uniformity permitting, the permiting process is a State Function, enforced by the local Inspector of Wires. In theory this means that determining if you can perform your own electrical work should NOT vary from one town to the next.

Problem 1: No where does the law allow or deny a home owner from performing there own electrical work.
MGL 143 Section 3L specifically says "for hire" and MGL 141 Section 1A (Electrician Licensing) says "engage in, or work at the business or occupation of installing wires...". So the law only deals with professionals not home owners and unlike the plumbing code which specifically prohibits unlicensed work, the electrical codes do not address non-professionals.

Problem 2: 527 CMR 12.00 Rule 1 
​All installations, repairs and maintenance of electrical wiring and electrical fixtures used for light, heat, power, signaling and communications purposes in buildings and structures subject to the provisions of M.G.L. c. 143 shall be reasonably safe to persons and property. 
Many Inspectors of Wires interpret this to mean they have broad authority, including authority to require licenses electricians, especially in the Democratic Republic of Cambridge and the like.

Problem 3: The permit application requires the signature of a licensed electrician. It's a catch-22. You don't need a permit becasue you aren't a professional, but if you "do the right thing" you can't apply for a permit. So, in reality the inspector is not rejecting your application, becasue you are a homeowner, but because it fails to meet form.

Problem 4: The rights of the home owner are not in the code, but in case law (court decisions). I'm still looking for the case, that basically didn't so much grant homeowners the right to do their own electrical work, but for public safety extended the permitting and inspection process to owner performed work. When I find it I'll add it.

Problem 5: Don't piss off the inspector, he can make your life miserable. A good way to win him over is to show him a detailed plan that shows 1) you know what your doing and 2) you know and planned for the quirks of your house. The MA application does not require plans.

Useful links:
MA Adoption of NEC 2011 public notice as required by law: http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/20110224ma.cfm
MGL 143 Section 3L (The Official Unofficial Law on Electrical Inspection) http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter143/Section3l
527 CMR 12.00 (Massachussets Electrical Code and NEC Admendments) http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/cmr/cmrtext/527CMR12.pdf


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## MrCucumber

Came on this thread with interest and it even prompted me to sign up here... I've always lived in much "mellower" states than MA but now facing a situation where I might want to do some work on my own house... I've kinda been warned about the anti-DIY sentiment you can run into in places but hoping its not too bad. 

To the inspector who says "I give homeowners one shot to get it absolutely perfect and if they don't then I screw them" - well thats a really great way to encourage people to not ever go near you. Real smart. I mean you COULD actually give people valuable input and advice so they learn from your inspection and learn to do things right and get rewarded for dealing with you... and you COULD constructively point out why you can't pass them yet and even advise them to go work with a licensed electrician to finish the job without being punitive about it, but nawww who'd want that. Instead just prove how smart and powerful you are - that's a much better idea. :no:

Anyway... our place is old ungrounded stuff everywhere and with more than a few legacy polarity faults from original construction 70 years ago or whatever it was. I can't afford to pay an electrician to do everything, but we ARE paying him for parts of a renovation and putting in a new service entrance and main service panel. I am hoping to both enhance the safety as well as the capacity of the system over time myself - replacing the ungrounded service that the electrician won't be doing in the first round as well as things like expanding the service in the garage for instance. 

Sadly if it comes down to the only choices be "go with the union / inspector monopoly cartel and pay full freight" or nothing, the answer for us would have to be "OK then we'll stick with crappy old less safe and more overloaded wiring". But I'm hoping there's a more sensible route in the middle. 

BTW unlike some in this thread who were obviously abused by bad electricians when they were young, I have every respect for good tradesman and for safety and for high quality craftsmanship. But I also know that I am smart enough to learn the basics and do a quality job as long as I don't get over my head and I get good advice and coaching. I work with high voltage electronics sometimes (400-500-600V vacuum tube amps anyone? 1KV CRT supplies?) so I have a full appreciation of the dangers as well as some of the specific considerations involved like why ground loops are bad etc etc...

My intended approach was going to be to pay my electrician for some time to be sure my design / materials plan is up to snuff, and then have him come out and give the job an eyeball again after I'm done before having the inspector come out. I know lots of friends/family that have done that in other states, but any comments on that? Does that work in MA or am I likely to run into trouble?


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## AtlanticWBConst.

levtron said:


> I had an electrician pull a permit, and do all the rough work. all was inspected and we put up the walls. He came back to start the finish work, got most of it done, and then disappeared. I finally got a hold of him and he informed me that his company is being sued (internal conflict between partners) and he wont be able to finish.
> 
> There are a few outlets and switches left. Can I finish it up and call for the final myself and remove the original electrician from the permit?
> 
> I am in Natick Ma.


Don't ask us - we cannot speak for your town. 

There is a good chance the inspector may allow it, but then also want you to designate which switches and outlets you finished.....

Check with your local electrical inspector to get the yay or nay on that.


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