# Good HSS drill bit set?



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

I agree most big box store drills are garbage. Cheap steel, they get away with selling them because most people only use them for occasionally drilling soft lumber.

You might want to try a industrial supply house, maybe someone local, or a Fastenal, or even MSC. Buy HSS made in USA. Cobalt drills are slightly harder and will stay sharper longer providing you don't chip or break them. Cobalt HSS is more brittle.

Regarding drilling asbestos, need to use carbide masonry drills. Diamond will also work but more expensive


----------



## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

"Walters" brand is my go to drillbit for HSS.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm afraid the prices from the vendors suggested are too high for my budget, considering I am not a pro, or doing production work.
Have any of you guys ever bought anything from Drill Hog USA on Ebay?
They have a 29 pc Molybdenum M7 set (1/16 to 1/2") for $63+ and a 21 pc for $60.

Would molybdenum be appropriate for a general use drill bit on a hand-held drill, or just go with a HSS?
I am really trying to keep from having to spend $100 or more. $60 is more in my ball park, so long as I am buying a set that I can use for most uses (not masonry or asbestos, etc of course).


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Drill bit sets have the problem that you use the common sizes much more than the rest. If you select half a dozen of the most used sizes and buy 20 of each then THAT set will last much longer.

I have for years done sharpening of knives and often people make the same complaint, the knives get dull way too fast. My first question is, do you have and use a steel? Yes, better metal will last longer but being able to restore an edge makes for a happy owner. In your case there are various drill bit sharpeners and with those and some practice 90% of your bits will last for decades. I break a few, I chip a few, and I drill through the wood into the concrete from time to time. Then I replace those bits. I think at present I have about 20 1/8th inch bits and almost as many ¼". It just eliminates the frustration. 

Bud


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Bud9051;
I like that idea, but I would like to start off with a decent set, then buy additional drills of the most common sizes. I don't do all that much drilling, but when I do, I am always having trouble with that cheap Milwaukee set. I also need some of the tap drill sizes, mainly between 6-32 and 1/4-20.
If sharpening is going to be an option, there are several things I need to think about:
1) Buy drills that sharpen well (ie; not the titanium coated ones)
2) Buy either a good sharpening machine, or a bench grinder (I think a bench grinder would serve me better, but it would certainly require me to learn how to sharpen a drill bit by hand). That said, I have read that the split bits cannot be sharpened in some of the machines.

After all of that, I have probably spent a whole lot more for sharpening tools than I would if I buy a "lifetime supply" of bits. Some of the bits I see for sale offer a "lifetime warranty". Exactly what does that mean in terms of a drill bit? Can I get a new one for the cost of shipping whenever one breaks or wears out? Seems shipping would cost more than a new bit (assuming no shipping charges for the new ones).

There was a good tool store local to me, but I am afraid that all such local businesses have gone away, thanks to the big-box stores.


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

"Seems shipping would cost more than a new bit (assuming no shipping charges for the new ones)."
You are not supposed to question their advertising, just buy and learn afterwards that shipping will cost more than the drill replacement. As for which ones, I'm afraid I haven't been very fussy and just about anything has met my drilling needs.

Bud


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm wondering if drilling technique might be part of the problem here. 

The drill bits dulling quickly and not holding an edge could be a sign of bits that have been overheated/softened.

Do you ever check temperature of your bit while drilling ? 

In harder materials, do you drill pilot holes ? 

In thicker materials (regardless of hardness) do you pull the drill bit back occasionally to help clear cuttings ?

Do you use a cutting oil or drill lubricant when drilling metals ?

Asbestos siding and other materials (such as drywall), are abrasive and are rough on drill bits. So even though we might think of them as soft, they can dull bits rather quickly. I tend to use sacrificial drills bits for them, not my good ones.

Do you change the rpm of the bit based on bit size and hardness of material ?


----------



## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Try locating a local machine shop supply to possibly buy bits individually when you screw one up from the set, especially the smaller bits and sharpen the larger more expensive bits.

Forget about all the Titanium and that sales pitch BS and buy HSS ( high speed steel ) bits for general use. A good HSS set is all you need.

As mentioned, use cutting fluid when drilling steel. Just a drop a second is much better than none and incorrect RPM is what screws up a large majority of larger bits. But for your 6-32 and 1/4" drilling for tapping most home owner equipment won't run fast enough to be concerned with RPM.

Tip - If there isn't a specific reason for 1/4"-20 consider 1/4"-28. It has advantages I won't go into in this post.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Now I'm not exactly sure what an "HSS" drill bit is. Would the molybdenum be considered an HSS bit, or is that a different animal?
To answer some of the questions being asked:

Cutting fluid/oil: I have to admit that most of the time I forget to use it.

Pilot holes: Yes. I always drill pilot holes.

Temperature: I have never checked the temperature of a bit. What method should I use? I have both a thermocouple and a non-contact IR thermometer.

1/4-20 vs 1/4-28: I have both 1/4/-20 and 1/4-28 taps. I don't have many fine-thread bolts though. Might be time to buy some.

I am going to look around for a local machine shop supply where I can get single bits at a reasonable price.

Is sharpening a drill bit very difficult? Is it something I could do if I had a bench grinder, or would it be better to purchase a drill bit sharpening machine?

Thanks for your help guys;

FW


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Nothing that fancy, I just touch the tip of the bit with a finger. If I have pain/jerk away, it's getting too warm for my liking. Time to cool it down, or change it.

If you think it is really hot, touch the bit about 1/2 way down,then 3/4, before touching the tip.


----------



## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Ultrarunner2017 QUOTE:
_Some of the bits I see for sale offer a "lifetime warranty". Exactly what does that mean in terms of a drill bit?

**********************************************************
_Taken from the old adage " a warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on " needs to go one step further and read " the warranty on these bits isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on ". :surprise::surprise::surprise: You will be considered to have done something wrong every time. Never fails.

NAPA has a set of 13 HSS bits by Balkamp for $36.72 that will be useful in most of the smaller size needs for home owner / DIY 'ers. Then hopefully as funds become available a 5/16", 3/8", 7/16" and 1/2" could be purchased individually as needed.

NAPA also has a 29 pc set by Balkamp but out of your price range at the moment.

With good instruction most anyone can learn to sharpen bits using a bench grinder. The problem with learning that on the internet is that there just isn't much there worth watching. I can't get something else clicked on quick enough when I see a fellow using the side of the grinding stone to sharpen a bit. PITIFUL!!!


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Ultrarunner2017 QUOTE:
> _Some of the bits I see for sale offer a "lifetime warranty". Exactly what does that mean in terms of a drill bit?
> 
> **********************************************************
> ...


I found the drill bits on NAPA. I guess the "heavy duty" are a better choice than the standard? So many different sets with such a wide price range. I guess if I had limited my search, I wouldn't be looking at those cobalt sets for $275.
I only had a quick look on the site. I saw a 12pc set of masonry bits for $26.49 that also caught my interest. I need to drill some small holes for wire clamps on the outside of my house. But I really need only one or two sizes for that job.

Just curious; what advantage/disadvantages do the molybdenum have over HSS? They are more expensive, but not by much. I didn't see any on NAPA (on the 2 pages I looked at), just curious.


----------



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

this should help

http://www.liquisearch.com/drill_bit/characteristics/materials

regarding the masonry drills, packs of Tapcons screws often contain the needed pilot drill


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

To provide a reference, this is the drill bit set I currently own, and which I have been wanting to replace.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...e-Drill-Bit-Set-21-Piece-48-89-2801/100670139

Despite the great advertising on the HD site, nowhere does it say what type of steel these bits are of. Are they HSS? If so, I assume that it is not a high quality steel.

I am basing my search for a new set on these, so I may be somewhat biased against HSS, if that is what these are. Of course I do understand that there is good HSS and bad HSS, just as with any other material. So I will clear my head of what I now think about HSS and probably find that a good HSS bit will be all that I need.


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Here is a good explanation of the various drill types. Take it as info, it is not a recommendation for or against the brand.
https://vermontamerican.com/twist-drill-bit-types-choose-right-twist-drill-bit/

When you say HSS, I think of the standard HSS bits, not the black oxide bits that you have.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Oso954 said:


> Here is a good explanation of the various drill types. Take it as info, it is not a recommendation for or against the brand.
> https://vermontamerican.com/twist-drill-bit-types-choose-right-twist-drill-bit/
> 
> When you say HSS, I think of the standard HSS bits, not the black oxide bits that you have.


I used to have a nice set of Vermont American when I was in my teens or early 20's. They lasted me for years - also using a hand drill, and very little experience. I also happen to have a special place in my heart for the state of Vermont.. I don't know if the bits are/were made there or not.

According to VA, the black oxide is beneficial - but as I am reading now, it appears that some mechanics like the black ones, and some like the shiny ones. I wouldn't choose a drill bit for its colour, but some people are fanatics when it comes to their tool boxes...


----------



## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Let's test your bits to get a general idea if they are poor quality or just dull.

Using one of the larger bits in the set, clamp it in a vise and run a file across it somewhere on the heel behind the cutting lip. In general, if it's hard enough the file won't ( touch it ) an in house term for about as hard as the hubs of hell, then if it is sharp it is hard enough to drill holes in the material you describe in your original post.

Just don't test it with your best file.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Let's test your bits to get a general idea if they are poor quality or just dull.
> 
> Using one of the larger bits in the set, clamp it in a vise and run a file across it somewhere on the heel behind the cutting lip. In general, if it's hard enough the file won't ( touch it ) an in house term for about as hard as the hubs of hell, then if it is sharp it is hard enough to drill holes in the material you describe in your original post.
> 
> Just don't test it with your best file.


I tried the test, and two relatively fine files would not touch the steel of this bit. The files slid across with no feeling of resistance at all. But the 1/2" bit I used for the test is definitely not sharp.

I decided to order a set of Chicago-Latrobe 150 series 15pc 1/16 to 1/2 in 1/32" steps for about $55 with free shipping from Amazon. These bits have 118 deg points. I think I read that the 118 point bits require center-punching before use or they will walk. I have always used a center punch in metal and most of the time in plastic.

I was going to get the Chicago-Latrobe 150 series 13pc set with 1/64 steps from 1/16 to 1/4 for under $25, but decided I needed the larger sizes (at least up to 3/8"), I really don't need the 1/64 steps, and since those larger bits in my Milwaukee set are not sharp, it seemed like my best choice. I decided on the Chicago-Latrobe because they are made in the U.S.A., and got high rankings from people who seemed to know what they were talking about. Another brand that got high ratings is Triumph, but the deal on Amazon was better for the Latrobe.

So now, when I get these new drills, I just have to remember to use oil, and to go easy.

In the future, I can see myself buying either a machine or a bench grinder to sharpen the drills. I see that Drill Doctor has the 244-DD750X @ $233.57 at Amazon, the DD750X @ $134.99, and then the cheaper models. When the time comes, I'll do some research on that, but I may just go the hand sharpening route instead.


----------



## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

Here's a link that may interest you.


http://toolguyd.com/best-usa-general-purpose-drill-bits-on-budget/


----------



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

:vs_bulb:


Ultrarunner2017 said:


> So now, when I get these new drills, I just have to remember to use oil, and to go easy.



Most folks burn up their HSS drills in steel by under feeding, combined with probably running too fast. You simply can not push a drill hard enough to properly hand feed a drill in steel. And if you are not making a chip, then it's rubbing and burning up.

For example, a 1/2" drill running 500 RPM in steel should feed about .005/rev., So drilling thru 1/2 plate would take 100 revolutions of the drill to feed thru, (not including the point). At 500 RPMs it will take 1/5th of a minute to feed thru or 12 seconds. I don't anyone who can push a 1/2 drill thru 1/2 steel plate in 12 seconds. Put the drill in a drill press and you can do it all day long.

So what to do? Start off with a small pilot hole and step drill it out being sure that you can push it hard enough to make a chip. Use cutting oil, retract to clear chips and cool the cutting tip. 

Added note on coatings, (IMO) pretty much irrelevant when it comes to drilling by hand. The coatings are essentially lubricants to aid chip removal in production drilling applications.


----------



## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Canarywood1 said:


> Here's a link that may interest you.
> 
> 
> http://toolguyd.com/best-usa-general-purpose-drill-bits-on-budget/


I started to read that article, but found at least one of the links to be broken, and another I found the price had increased significantly.
In any case, I have ordered the Chicago-Latrobe 15pc set (1/16 to 1/2), but as I said I could have bought the 13pc (1/16 to 1/4) for less than $25. I'm sure I could have found a better deal, but for what I want, I think that I will be happy with the Chicago-Latrobe bits. I looked for single bits, so I could have spares of the smaller common ones that are prone to breaking, but could not find what I was looking for on Amazon. I want to find a local shop where I can get them at a reasonable cost. For now though, I always have the Milwaukee bits to use in an "emergency", but some of those larger ones are going to need sharpening.

It's amazing how much time one can spend on buying drill bits. Most people in my class (DIY'er/hobbyist) would just buy them at the big-box store and forget about it. Then when they get dull or break, they would go buy a new set, or replacement drills. I bought a pack of two of the smaller drills to replace the Milwaukee when one broke. I think they're Titanium coated, but not sure. 

BTW: I have a reamer that is good for up to 1/2", which I use if I need a non-precision hole larger than 3/8" in soft metals. That tool comes in handy when I need a hole that is in-between drill bit sizes, or I made a mistake in drilling and the hole is off-center (so I enlarge it and use a larger washer under the bolt).









Incidentally, this one is stamped "made in the U.S.A., but no brand name.


----------



## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

Ultrarunner2017 said:


> I started to read that article, but found at least one of the links to be broken, and another I found the price had increased significantly.
> In any case, I have ordered the Chicago-Latrobe 15pc set (1/16 to 1/2), but as I said I could have bought the 13pc (1/16 to 1/4) for less than $25. I'm sure I could have found a better deal, but for what I want, I think that I will be happy with the Chicago-Latrobe bits. I looked for single bits, so I could have spares of the smaller common ones that are prone to breaking, but could not find what I was looking for on Amazon. I want to find a local shop where I can get them at a reasonable cost. For now though, I always have the Milwaukee bits to use in an "emergency", but some of those larger ones are going to need sharpening.
> 
> It's amazing how much time one can spend on buying drill bits. Most people in my class (DIY'er/hobbyist) would just buy them at the big-box store and forget about it. Then when they get dull or break, they would go buy a new set, or replacement drills. I bought a pack of two of the smaller drills to replace the Milwaukee when one broke. I think they're Titanium coated, but not sure.
> ...




Just remember the old adage, "you get what you pay for" and as a general rule it's true, but there are times you will run across a good deal.


----------

