# access panel preventing basement bath conversion?



## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

plumbing drain cleanout?


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

What's on the other side of the wall?


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## fetzer85 (Dec 4, 2009)

Kinda looks like an access panel to tub/shower plumbing. Although it's a little high for a tub. It would make sense if there was just a shower on the other side.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Remove it and find out.
Just cut the paint lines before removing.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Remove it and find out.
> Just cut the paint lines before removing.


What...you don't like to peel all the paper on the sheetrock when you remove trim? :laughing:

We like to see who can get the longest strand. Kind of like peeling and apple in one string.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

thanks for the replies. the pdf that i attached above illustrates it, but i should've posted it as a photo, so that's below. behind the wall that the panel is parallel to is the basement outside foundation. behind the wall on the left is the bathroom i'm wanting to renovate. so plumbing cleanout would make sense. if that's the case, would that have to be moved in order to put a shower there? i'm assuming it shouldn't be blocked off by the shower, but is that a possibility?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Probably a clean out or a rough in.

Pop it open and lets see.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

what is above the bath (above the panel) on the first floor?

I agree with everyone instead of guessing open the panel and see ....


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Water shut offs, Studer valve, drain clean out, a pot of gold.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Water shut offs, Studer valve, drain clean out, a pot of gold.


Dead body...?


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## redman88 (Oct 5, 2012)

open and take a picture.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

ok, i just cut through the paint at the edges inside the trim with a utility knife, and then i realized it's not a "panel" there. it's actually the wall, with a rectangle of trim attached. not sure if that's from the builder, a prior owner, or the Fannie Mae-hired contractor (they seem to have come into the foreclosure and done a quick & dirty patch & spray job all over the house).

i'm not doing this renovation immediately, so i'm not going to cut through the wall yet, but to answer some questions and provide a bit more info... above the panel on the next floor up is the corner of the living room, but just a couple feet away on the other side of a wall is the sink & dishwasher in the kitchen... and two floors up is a full bathroom. on the wall below the trim appears to be 2 golf-ball sized holes, about 20" apart, that have been patched up (poorly). not sure if that info might imply something as well.

Considering the fact that it's right next to the basement half bath and vertically close to kitchen plumbing and another bathroom, it seems likely that it's a drain cleanout. Assuming this is the case, does anyone have thoughts on what it means for the extending the bathroom the way I'm considering?

i get the idea that i shouldn't make a cleanout inaccessible. i think i'll already have to dig into the concrete to do shower plumbing, so maybe it'll be easy to have a plumber relocate the cleanout while they're at it... or just move the sink & toilet plumbing and make it all work a different way. or maybe use the ideas i've brainstormed in the below photo. any thoughts on what's possible and what might work the best (functionally, minimal time/cost, etc).

thanks again for all the replies.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

sorry, meant to add a photo of the patched up holes below the "panel." here they are.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

could be the plumbing running upstairs, closed it in with the wall to dress it up a bit


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## fetzer85 (Dec 4, 2009)

Honestly, I don't think anyone can give you useful advice on whether or not your new design will work until we can see what's in there.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

looks like a cleanout back there. it's a vertical pvc pipe with a plugged stub coming out. 1st photo is what's actually there, except the photo is upside down. not a perfectly clear shot, so 2nd photo is an example of what's there.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

to keep this post short, i'll avoid too much redundant info. please read my prior statements for the full context.

In the drawing below, i've basically zoomed out from my prior drawings and deleted the finer captions surrounding the half-bath. This gives a better idea of the full basement & townhouse plumbing.

notice what appears to possibly be the main stack in the laundry room, on the opposite wall from the stack with cleanout behind the access panel. the one in the laundry room also has a cleanout on it. I'm assuming the 2 stacks are attached underground.

With the clarity on what's behind the access panel, and more info on the whole-house plumbing, anybody have thoughts on what this (specifically, the cleanout & access panel) means for renovating this basement bath? shower stall, leaving space to access panel? tub, with waterproof panel above tub? relocating the cleanout elsewhere on the wall in order to place tub/shower against that wall?


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## SquishyBall (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi,
I'm not a pro, but am pretty sure cleanouts have to be accessible, with something like 3' of clearance in front of them. To use them, you have to be able to wheel a large cleanout hose on a spool up to the cleanout to send a camera or whatever equipment down the cleanout. I think it was 3' my inspector said, but don't quote me on that. This was in California.

I'm in a similar situation. I want to turn the closet which has our stack / cleanout into a bathroom. Problem is the back wall would naturally be the shower and that would seal in the cleanout, which I won't do. We also have two stacks, like you do. One by the laundry room which serves one end of the house and the other over by the wall that shoots up to the bathrooms. I presume they meet up under the concrete and go out to the street as one. 

This leaves nothing but costly options of moving it or replanning to just stay clear.

Why don't you just go the other direction and take space from the storage room insteat? That seems to be very convenient...
-mike


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

not sure if this will work, but on paper it may .....

have the cleanout rotated 90 (see sketch) and extend to back wall of proposed linen closet. Cleanout would still be accessible and pipe could be hidden in the linen closet.


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## SquishyBall (Mar 19, 2013)

I was going to suggest building the cleanout into a linen closet... but in that formation, you'll have a hard time opening the linen closet doors. If they go to the floor, they'll bump into the toilet. Even where they're above the toilet, it would be awkward.

So you don't want to take space from the storage room?

What about this? Turn everything sideways. Things fit better like this once you've moved the door to have toilet / sink on one side and either full bath or 1/2 shower and 1/2 linen closet on the other side. You still have a cleanout, and can build in a medicine cabinet or other storage in the space by it.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

thanks for the ideas. everything i'm reading says the rodding clearance for 3-6" pipe cleanout is 18" (12" for smaller than 3" pipe... 36" for larger than 6" pipe).

i can't go into the storage room because last year i built a large shelving unit into the wall... and we're already tight on storage space.

i'd also like to avoid moving the sink & toilet if possible so i don't have to mess around with that plumbing. i'm already seriously considering an above-floor drain for the shower/tub in order to avoid breaking concrete. of course, that assumes i'd be able to connect all the new pipes into the current system in the walls, which is something else i need to get more information on. if the under floor tie-in isn't far from the new drain location, maybe it's cheaper and less work than i'm imagining.

the idea of rotating the cleanout is intriguing. maybe the pipe doesn't actually have to be inside the closet, but rather just keep the existing wall the way it is, between the stack and the new closet. however, seems very difficult to locate an access panel (including trim) on a wall that's 7" wide, no?

in one of my earlier drawings, i mentioned the idea of storage in that space, and i was actually thinking of bathroom storage above the access panel, and external storage from the access panel down (not even shelves, just a little 3' cubbie space... great for hide & seek for the kids too). this wouldn't require a cleanout rotation, just 18" from the cleanout to the shower. however, good point that the toilet would make it difficult to access the storage above the access panel.

another option would be the drawing shown below. this one might make an above-floor drain more difficult, depending on how far the pipe would have to go to tie into the main system. btw, does anyone know where the underground connection between stacks is likely to be, or is it pretty much anyone's guess until you start digging or get someone in there with these pipe sensors i've read about?

any more thoughts on these ideas or other options? thanks again.


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## Learn as i go (Mar 8, 2011)

ok, I'm dragging this thread back up. I have a new idea and would appreciate some input. Read earlier posts for background if helpful. I've added an updated drawing of my thoughts below.








In order to optimize space (ie, take as little space away from the basement rec room as possible, both in square ft and in feel), I'd really like to add a shower up against the wall that's covering the stack & cleanout. In order to keep the cleanout accessible, I'd rotate it to the right and extend it out to the new wall (will this work?) and add a panel there (access from the rec room, not inside the bathroom). I'd also move the door to the middle of the room and add a bump out for a closet opposite the sink.

Now, regarding the shower drain, it'll be within a couple feet of the stack. Can I avoid digging the slab AND avoid saniflo by just building a raised platform, trap below platform and connect directly to the stack? seems like the 1/4" per foot requirement wouldn't cost much height, if any. The ceiling is 90". How high would the platform need to be, and would it leave enough head space? I was guessing around 6", which would leave a 7' ceiling. I've heard about a running trap that could save height. Would that work?

Also, what would be my venting requirements for the shower? Could I just connect it to whatever vent(s) is already there behind the sink/toilet? i haven't opened that wall yet, but from looking inside the access panel i just know there's another 3" stack behind the toilet that goes down into the slab.


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## sswood (Oct 16, 2014)

How much would you say you spend monthly/yearly at Lowes and Home Depot alone?


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