# Ceiling Fan Head Gets Really Hot



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

If you are supplying 240 to a 120 volt fan it is a problem that will not last long. It will burn the motor out.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> I just installed a new ceiling fan. My house is very old and only has the two wires coming out & no ground wire. I installed the fan easily, but when the fan runs the fan head gets very hot. I tried switching the black and whites but got the same result. I think it might have something to do with the fan being 110v and the wires being 220v or vise versa. How do I fix this problem or can I? Is it some other problem?



What makes you think you have 240 volts at the fan box? what was there prior?


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

There was a ceiling fan there before. I just replaced it with a more modern one.
I'm assuming it's a voltage compatability issue based on the heat of the fan head and what ppl are telling me because I know I wired it properly.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> There was a ceiling fan there before. I just replaced it with a more modern one.
> I'm assuming it's a voltage compatability issue based on the heat of the fan head and what ppl are telling me because I know I wired it properly.



Dont ever assume. Always test with a meter first. Either way unless you are replacing an giant industrial fan I cant see a 240 volt circuit being run to that box in a US or Canadian dwelling.


I am willing to bet its normal. What we consider hot is well within tolerance for most electrical equipment.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Can you research the old fan and find out what V it ran on? Model numbers, manufacturer, labels?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

How many breakers does it take to kill power to the fan?


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

I just checked the voltage of the new fan, it's 120v. Is it possible the wiring is 240v!?
Maybe the motor is faulty? Maybe it's supposed to get that hot? When I say hot I mean hot, not warm. 
It is a Westinghouse "industrial" silver metal fan 66$ on Amazon. But again, it's 120v.
Ty for all the insight.


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

I'll check the voltage on the old fan


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> I just checked the voltage of the new fan, it's 120v. Is it possible the wiring is 240v!?
> Maybe the motor is faulty? Maybe it's supposed to get that hot? When I say hot I mean hot, not warm.
> It is a Westinghouse "industrial" silver metal fan 66$ on Amazon. But again, it's 120v.
> Ty for all the insight.



Highly unlikely. Good chance the new fan would have smoked up by now. If you truly suspect something measure the wires at the J box with a meter.

When you say hot, how hot are we talking? 120*F 145*F 250*F?


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

I'll have to get something to check the temp. But if you held your finger to it for 30seconds-1minute it my give you a slight burn


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

When I did a Google search on "Westinghouse industrial silver metal fan for $66 on Amazon" what came up was one that used a capacitor and 5 speed wall control. 
So I have to wonder if it really is properly wired. Do you have a full model number or installation instructions to post?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> I'll have to get something to check the temp. But if you held your finger to it for 30seconds-1minute it my give you a slight burn



I would not worry about that at all. Thats not hot for electrical equipment. Now if you could ignite paper or cigarette in that time frame then I might be worried.


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

That is the fan. I did not install the 5 speed capacitor box though. I didnt touch the wall switch, it's the switch that was previously there...your normal on off switch.
The manual made it appear as an optional accessory.


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## MrElectricianTV (Nov 13, 2014)

nhiller said:


> That is the fan. I did not install the 5 speed capacitor box though. I didnt touch the wall switch, it's the switch that was previously there...your normal on off switch.
> The manual made it appear as an optional accessory.


Good call.


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

Here's a couple images


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Nothing unusual from here.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

So your running the fan without a capacitor?


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

Yes I did not instal the 5 speed control box. It's just wired to the existing normal on off switch.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> Yes I did not instal the 5 speed control box. It's just wired to the existing normal on off switch.



Instructions say its optional.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The 5 speed switch is optional. I doubt the capacitor is optional.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

joed said:


> The 5 speed switch is optional. I doubt the capacitor is optional.



I dont see where the instructions call for adding a capacitor outside the 5 speed switch.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

joed said:


> The 5 speed switch is optional. I doubt the capacitor is optional.



Here are the same instructions, I cant see where a cap is required:

http://www.westinghouselighting.com/pdfs/products/7812700_im.pdf 


The heating the OP describes is completely normal. Again, what is hot to us is actually cool for electrical equipment. Anyone who does this for a living will encounter transformers, ballasts and motors that become literally get hot enough to fry an egg under normal operating conditions.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I don't even see a capacitor in those instructions anywhere.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

joed said:


> I don't even see a capacitor in those instructions anywhere.



Exactly, so a cap would not be required during field installation.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The only excuse for heating is wrong voltage or defective fan. 
If this is an industrial setting it could 277 volts instead of 120 being applied. 277 is commonly used for lighting circuits in USA. And it would be a single breaker not a double. In Canada it could be 347 volts.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

joed said:


> The only excuse for heating is wrong voltage or defective fan.


:lol::lol:

I have yet to hear of a 100% efficient motor. 




> If this is an industrial setting it could 277 volts instead of 120 being applied.


Where did the OP state he is in an industrial setting? :huh:



> *My house is very old* and only has the two wires coming out & no ground wire.





> 277 is commonly used for lighting circuits in USA. And it would be a single breaker not a double. In Canada it could be 347 volts.


I know


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

There is no capacitor with this fan. Only an optional 5 speed control switch that I did not instal. The product is called "industrial fan" but it's just a regular Westinghouse fan you can buy on Amazon. It's 120v I checked. The wiring for the house is more than likely 120v also. 
What I gather from everyone is this:
- either the heat is normal
- the fan head is faulty
- or the homes wiring is 240v

Any other theories?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Is it still running without issue?


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> There is no capacitor with this fan.


How do you know that ? 

Most ceiling fans use a capacitor inside the fan to control the motor rpm. (It is the high speed limiter). If it was a 3 speed fan, there would be additional levels of capacitance inserted to lower the fan speed for medium and low.

If you didn't chase the wiring inside the fan, you have no way of knowing whether there is a capacitor in there or not.


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## Pharon (Apr 14, 2014)

Oso954 said:


> How do you know that ?
> 
> Most ceiling fans use a capacitor inside the fan to control the motor rpm. (It is the high speed limiter). If it was a 3 speed fan, there would be additional levels of capacitance inserted to lower the fan speed for medium and low.
> 
> If you didn't chase the wiring inside the fan, you have no way of knowing whether there is a capacitor in there or not.


I think he meant that there was no EXTERNAL capacitor included with the fan -- i.e. nothing else to wire except the fan and its power source to the switch.

In the Amazon description, it says it's a "153-MM by 17-mm cold-rolled steel motor with single capacitor" which to me says it's all internal.


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

It's still running fine because I turn it off after 1-2 hrs of use. I'm not sure what would happen if I ran it all night.
As far as a capacitor goes...I'm not sure if it has one. It didn't require me to mess with the motor or etc when installing...just mount and wire. If it's a capacitor problem that would be strange because it's not part of the installation instructions. I could always open the head and adjust it if someone could tell me what to look for..??


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Oso954 said:


> How do you know that ?
> 
> Most ceiling fans use a capacitor inside the fan to control the motor rpm. (It is the high speed limiter). If it was a 3 speed fan, there would be additional levels of capacitance inserted to lower the fan speed for medium and low.





Good chance there is indeed a capacitor, but its inside the fan itself. I see nothing in the instructions requiring it and to be honest without it the fan would either not rotate or would have been noticeable. Take any permanent split capacitor motor and remove the cap... its going to be noticed. 




> If you didn't chase the wiring inside the fan, you have no way of knowing whether there is a capacitor in there or not.



Way more complicated then it needs to be. What people in this thread refuse to grasp is that its normal for some electrical equipment to become painfully, if injuriously hot. Anyone working in the field will tell you this. Touch the motor on your washing machine, dishwasher, refrigerator, ect after its been running normally, chances being it will be impossible to tocuh for more then a few seconds. Being a basic fan I doubt this is a high efficiency motor so it will get very warm.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

nhiller said:


> It's still running fine because I turn it off after 1-2 hrs of use. I'm not sure what would happen if I ran it all night.
> As far as a capacitor goes...I'm not sure if it has one. It didn't require me to mess with the motor or etc when installing...just mount and wire. If it's a capacitor problem that would be strange because it's not part of the installation instructions. I could always open the head and adjust it if someone could tell me what to look for..??



If that just happens to be a shaded pole motor you will not even see a capacitor. There is no point in dismantling this fan over something that is completely normal for every piece of electrical equipment. Yes some motors run hotter then others, that does not equate to a problem.


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone...I'm going to run it for 2-3 hrs and see what happens, then 3-4 hrs and so on and so on.
I'll let you know what happens.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Please do us a couple other favors too...
Change your profile to show where you are located. We don't need an actual street address, but a rough idea of where you live will be a big help sometimes. 

Also it is best to measure things like temperature and voltage instead of saying it feels hot. The human hand can tolerate temps in the 120-130 F range. Around 140 is when things start to get to the point of slight discomfort to minor burns. As was mentioned earlier, electrical appliances sometimes have a higher operating temp than most people realize.

Guessing at voltage is not good either. There may be an underlying problem with a 120 circuit (or any circuit for that matter) that a meter will show. Also, with old wiring in buildings it is real easy to accidentally connect to a 240 volt circuit (old knob and tube) if you are not carefull


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

Update:
I ran the fan the whole night...probably 8hrs straight. Fan operated fine. No electrical smell. I felt the fan head this morning and it was only as hot as it typically is after running for 1 hour. All seems to have gone well.
Looks like "jump-start" was right!
I'm going to still measure the voltage in the wiring soon to make sure it's not 240v. And I'll update my profile. But thanks for all the help!


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

nhiller said:


> Update:
> I ran the fan the whole night...probably 8hrs straight. Fan operated fine. No electrical smell. I felt the fan head this morning and it was only as hot as it typically is after running for 1 hour. All seems to have gone well.
> Looks like "jump-start" was right!
> I'm going to still measure the voltage in the wiring soon to make sure it's not 240v. And I'll update my profile. But thanks for all the help!


Let me assure you that it is not wired to 240, if it were it would have burned out the motor in a very short time.


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## Pharon (Apr 14, 2014)

danpik said:


> Guessing at voltage is not good either. There may be an underlying problem with a 120 circuit (or any circuit for that matter) that a meter will show.


This is a great point. If, for some reason, the voltage was inordinately low - say in the < 105 range - that could also create more heat than normal in the windings.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It is not normal for a ceiling fan to heat up. It might be running but something is still wrong if it is heating up, especially if is getting 'very hot'.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Does not seem right. I know electric motors can get very hot, but this is not a compressor motor, its a 60 Watt fan, which, by definition, should have good airflow over it. You gotta figure it should be at least 50% efficient and 30 of those Watts are moving air rather than heating up the housing. 

I just did a test on my ceiling fan. It seems to have a 118 Watt motor (had to Google it). Ran it for an hour at medium, and temperature of the steel housing was 82 degrees F. Seemed to be pretty uniform over the entire housing. You could barely tell it had been running. It actually cooled off compared to when I earlier had the 100W light on, and the fan off.

Maybe its just a very inefficient motor. As the other reply mentioned, it would be good to have an accurate temperature reading rather than just "hot".


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Or maybe the heat from the light was transferring. Was it an Incandescent lamp?


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## nhiller (Dec 7, 2015)

You know the strange thing is that only the head where the motor is gets hot. The rest of the fan stays very cool. So maybe it is just a bad motor. I mean the fan was only 66$. Looks sharp though.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yeah. Don't remember exactly what I paid for my fan, but it was a heck of a lot more than $66.


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

If it's getting too hot, do what I do-Send it to Cancun for a week. 

Usually fixes the problem for at least 6 months.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Im at a loss how everyone in this thread reached the conclusion a motor getting hot is abnormal. 


Ive said it before and I will say it again: this is completely normal.


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