# Drywall Flashing: Need HELP!!!



## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi Guys,

We are in the process of painting our house after new drywall was installed and started noticing terrible flashing. I noticed it after the first coat of Zinsser Bulls-Eye 123 primer. So I decided to prime it again to see if that would help, but was still able to see it. I figured maybe the paint will hide it, so we laid on the first coat of BM Regal Eggshell in Grey and I can still see it. That's when I started searching online and learned what flashing was. Some people suggested using Zinsser Gardz primer sealer but I had no luck finding it in my area. Instead I used Scotch Dry-Tite Clear, which is said to be way better than Zinssers. The guy at the counter also said it should help. So on one of the walls that wasn't yet painted, only primed with two coats, I rolled on two coats of Dry-Tite. Today I painted the first coat and I can still see where all the skim coats and seams are in the drywall. I can even feel the difference between that area and the paper, it feels rougher to the touch. I highly doubt that a second or third coat is going to cover this and I really don't want to start wasting paint. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this and what I can do to fix it? Aside from ripping out the drywall and starting over. I have attached pictures below to see what it looks like.

The first three pics are 2 coats zinsser 123, 2 coats Draw Tite, and 1 coat BM Regal
The last three pics and 2 coats zinsser 123, 1 coat BM Regal

Thank you in advance,
Hovig


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Maybe it was not sanded and cleaned well enough?

One coat of Draw-tite and two coats of finish should cover that :yes:


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Should I attempt one more coat of finish? You think that would do it? What's weird is you can actually feel a difference in the texture in those areas. I wonder if the texture dried faster in those areas and made it rougher. It almost seems like the texture is sharper and much more fine.


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

Drywall wasn't finished properly. No matter how many coats of primer and paint you put on it, the defects will still telegraph through. Sorry, but you've wasted a lot of time and money already...best thing now is skimcoat, sand to a smooth finish, as it should have been to start with, and repaint.


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## rbriggs82 (Mar 4, 2013)

Stop painting it! Re mud all those seems and sand them smooth this time. 

Afterwards use one coat of primer and 2 coats of paint. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

The textural differences you are feeling are not uncommon on new drywall. During the sanding of the seams, the paper around the seams gets sanded a little causing it to rough up. That's why new drywall gets sanded again after priming. 
You could have an exceptionally bad case of fuzzed up paper, that will require a skim coat to look right, but a good paint job can hide a lot of fuzz. 

It looks to me like the main problem might be that you are applying very thin coats of paint. It's very easy for a novice painter to spread the paint Way too thin. New drywall needs a good thick coat of primer, then a thorough sanding to look smooth. Too little primer on the surface and there is not enough solids on the wall to be able to sand smooth. 

Unfortunately, in this case using the clear sealer may have been counter productive because it doesn't sand as well as the 123. Applying it to such a rough surface has sealed that roughness like it is and will make it harder to sand smooth. 

Before you give up and skim coat the walls you might try this; on the wall that has the most 'coats' of paint, sand it really well with 120-150 sand paper. A wall sander will make this easier

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Pole-Sanders/Radius360-Drywall-Sanding-Tool.html 

but it can be done with a sanding sponge or just a piece of sand paper. Really sand it well, concentrating on the rough areas around the seams. Then put a heavy coat of your finish paint on and see how that does.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Looks like those seams where finished way to narrow to me.
Should have been at least 6" wide.
To narrow and your sanding the tape and fuzzing it up.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I have to go with the seams need re-done. If after all this primer and paint you still feel that much difference I think it's more than the paper fuzzed. From the pics the seams look a little proud and Joe is right they should be feathered out farther.
Did you roll the walls? what size roller?


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

By looking at the photos, it's definitely fuzz from over sanding. 
Pretty much need to skim those areas > lightly sand > spot prime only the newly skimmed areas with two coats (you want to catch these areas up with the number of primer/paint coats that you've already applied or the repairs will keep flashing). :yes:

Good luck and keep us posted, :thumbsup:


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

I didn't do any of the drywall work, it was done by the contractor I hired. The wall also has texture on it. If I sand the wall then all the texture will be removed in those areas. It almost seems like they can't spot treat this and will need to sand off everything, skim coat it, and retexture. Does that sound about right?


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> I have to go with the seams need re-done. If after all this primer and paint you still feel that much difference I think it's more than the paper fuzzed. From the pics the seams look a little proud and Joe is right they should be feathered out farther.
> Did you roll the walls? what size roller?


I rolled them with 1/2" Microfiber rollers. It is possible that I'm applying the paint too thin as mentioned by Jmayspaint.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I really like the micro fiber rollers. Let me make a suggestion but don't do anything until we hear from some of the other guys. 
The stipple from the micros is somewhat different from a regular roller. My suggestion is get a regular roller cover such a colossus from Sher. Wills. in 1/2" nap. or even 3/4" since there is texture on the wall. Load it with paint, not too much like it's dripping, but loaded. Then go over one of the areas that is flashing, The heavier stipple from this may hide the flashing, roughness. This may not work but I think I would try it, you already have the paint and the roller frame so all you would be out is the price of the cover. If it works you would need to paint the whole wall for the stipple pattern to match.
Now we'll see what the others think.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Kaveman42 said:


> I didn't do any of the drywall work, it was done by the contractor I hired. The wall also has texture on it. If I sand the wall then all the texture will be removed in those areas. It almost seems like they can't spot treat this and will need to sand off everything, skim coat it, and retexture. Does that sound about right?


Oh it's textured.... What kind of texture? Orange peel or something else?


Kaveman42 said:


> I rolled them with 1/2" Microfiber rollers. It is possible that I'm applying the paint too thin as mentioned by Jmayspaint.


Yes it is and the pics kind of look like you're almost dry rolling. Caused by trying to stretch the paint out to far.


ToolSeeker said:


> I really like the micro fiber rollers. Let me make a suggestion but don't do anything until we hear from some of the other guys.
> The stipple from the micros is somewhat different from a regular roller. My suggestion is get a regular roller cover such a colossus from Sher. Wills. in 1/2" nap. or even 3/4" since there is texture on the wall. Load it with paint, not too much like it's dripping, but loaded. Then go over one of the areas that is flashing, The heavier stipple from this may hide the flashing, roughness. This may not work but I think I would try it, you already have the paint and the roller frame so all you would be out is the price of the cover. If it works you would need to paint the whole wall for the stipple pattern to match.
> Now we'll see what the others think.


This is probably your best bet Kaveman.:yes:
I would say use at least a 3/4" nap and don't try to stretch the paint to far. This might do it. :thumbup:


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

That's really amazing that your walls ended up looking like that even AFTER BEING TEXTURED. Usually texture covers lots of drywall imperfections although not all of them. I'm surprised that there is sanding damage because most SKILLED drywallers do very little sanding especially when they are going to texture the walls. In fact, many do not even have to sand before applying texture. I would ask a few more questions of the GC and the drywall contractor to see what is really going on here before you proceed.


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Sir MixAlot said:


> Oh it's textured.... What kind of texture? Orange peel or something else?


 Yes, it is orange peel. Sorry, I forgot to mention it was textured in my original post. I think it's likely due to thin paint application. We painted the bathrooms with BM Aura Bath & Spa which is a thicker paint and you don't see these lines. However, you can feel the paper fibers in some spots. I'm sure a light sanding might help remedy this.

Just spoke to my father and he picked up a 3/4" colossus roller from SW since he works across the street from their store. I'll give it another shot today and see how it turns out. I'm testing out area's that will be located behind the kitchen cabinets, so I'm not worried about messing it up. I just want to make sure the hallway gets an even coat at the end of all this, since it faces the living room.

I'll try it on a wall that has Draw Tite and a wall that only has primer and paint to see which coats better. Do you still recommend sanding it with 120 grit paper before painting?


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Kaveman42 said:


> Yes, it is orange peel. Sorry, I forgot to mention it was textured in my original post. I think it's likely due to thin paint application. We painted the bathrooms with BM Aura Bath & Spa which is a thicker paint and you don't see these lines. However, you can feel the paper fibers in some spots. I'm sure a light sanding might help remedy this.
> 
> Just spoke to my father and he picked up a 3/4" colossus roller from SW since he works across the street from their store. I'll give it another shot today and see how it turns out. I'm testing out area's that will be located behind the kitchen cabinets, so I'm not worried about messing it up. I just want to make sure the hallway gets an even coat at the end of all this, since it faces the living room.
> 
> I'll try it on a wall that has Draw Tite and a wall that only has primer and paint to see which coats better. Do you still recommend sanding it with 120 grit paper before painting?


For now, I would just paint those tester walls and see how they look after they are completely dry. :thumbsup:


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks Paul. I'll give it a shot.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Gymschu said:


> That's really amazing that your walls ended up looking like that even AFTER BEING TEXTURED. Usually texture covers lots of drywall imperfections although not all of them. I'm surprised that there is sanding damage because most SKILLED drywallers do very little sanding especially when they are going to texture the walls. In fact, many do not even have to sand before applying texture. I would ask a few more questions of the GC and the drywall contractor to see what is really going on here before you proceed.


Orange peel won't cover much, knockdown will. I am going to take a guess here and I may be completely off base. A LOT of GC's are using their own crews to do the drywall instead of Drywall Contractors figuring on a huge savings. What leads me to believe this may have happened here is the fuzzed paper being so bad. Inexperience and a power sander will do this quite easily. A lot of the G/C's think if they get close they can hide mediocre work behind texture, and sometimes they get away with it. As I said I may be completely wrong.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> Orange peel won't cover much, knockdown will. I am going to take a guess here and I may be completely off base. A LOT of GC's are using their own crews to do the drywall instead of Drywall Contractors figuring on a huge savings. What leads me to believe this may have happened here is the fuzzed paper being so bad. Inexperience and a power sander will do this quite easily. A lot of the G/C's think if they get close they can hide mediocre work behind texture, and sometimes they get away with it. As I said I may be completely wrong.


 Texture really won't hide much, especially a light orange peel like that. You basically need good level 4 drywall for it really hide the seams and nails. 

It wasn't immediately obvious to me that the walls pictured were textured, the seams are still so obvious.


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

So I tested out 4 spots; sanded and unsanded on both the Draw Tite wall and the wall with just paint on it. I'll check tomorrow to see which one looks good and report back. I hope this works out, I'll take some pics and report back.


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Forgot to mention that I used the 3/4" Colossus. That thing sure does hold a lot of paint but it also sheds way too much. Even after I rinsed and cleaned it. Does anyone else have the same experience?


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Kaveman42 said:


> Forgot to mention that I used the 3/4" Colossus. That thing sure does hold a lot of paint but it also sheds way too much. Even after I rinsed and cleaned it. Does anyone else have the same experience?


I prefer to use a lambskin nap.


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

I have a 1/2" lambskin I can use. Do they sell it in 3/4"?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Kaveman42 said:


> I have a 1/2" lambskin I can use. Do they sell it in 3/4"?


 
you don't need a 3/4 at all, 1/2 is fine


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I use that cover all the time in fact it's my go to on texture and I have never had that problem. I just went back and re-read your post. Another thing that should help is instead of eggshell go down in sheen to a satin or matte.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Kaveman42 said:


> I have a 1/2" lambskin I can use. Do they sell it in 3/4"?


Yes. :yes:


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

ToolSeeker said:


> I use that cover all the time in fact it's my go to on texture and I have never had that problem. I just went back and re-read your post. Another thing that should help is instead of eggshell go down in sheen to a satin or matte.


Eggshell has less sheen than satin. :thumbsup:


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

chrisn said:


> you don't need a 3/4 at all, 1/2 is fine


There was a reason why a 3/4" nap was suggested. :thumbsup:


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I don't think it's as much about the nap size as it is how the roller is used. Yes a 3/4 will hold more paint and facilitate a thicker coat with better ability to penetrate the crevices of a textured surface. But it is very easy to take a 3/4 nap (or one of any length) and 'corn cob' it. Not dipping the nap in paint often enough and/or putting too much pressure on the roller in an effort to stretch the paint can quickly compress the nap to the extent that its pick up-release capacity is greatly diminished. 

One of the hardest things I have found to teach new people about rolling is to put enough paint on the wall. It seems to be a general tendency to over roll paint, to push on the roller in an effort to force the paint out of it. 

Whatever nap you use, dip it often and use light pressure on the wall. When the nap starts to run dry and not completely cover the wall, don't push on it, instead dip it again.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Jmayspaint said:


> I don't think it's as much about the nap size as it is how the roller is used. Yes a 3/4 will hold more paint and facilitate a thicker coat with better ability to penetrate the crevices of a textured surface. But it is very easy to take a 3/4 nap (or one of any length) and 'corn cob' it. Not dipping the nap in paint often enough and/or putting too much pressure on the roller in an effort to stretch the paint can quickly compress the nap to the extent that its pick up-release capacity is greatly diminished.
> 
> One of the hardest things I have found to teach new people about rolling is to put enough paint on the wall. It seems to be a general tendency to over roll paint, to push on the roller in an effort to force the paint out of it.
> 
> Whatever nap you use, dip it often and use light pressure on the wall. When the nap starts to run dry and not completely cover the wall, don't push on it, instead dip it again.


Agreed.:thumbsup:
The reason why the 3/4" was suggested was not only to put more paint on. But, it would hopefully create enough roller stipple to maybe get rid of the fuzzies still visible through the orange peel texture and the 3 coats of primer and paint that has already been applied. It might. It might not. 
This would be much easier for the OP then the alternative. :yes:


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Sir MixAlot said:


> Agreed.:thumbsup:
> The reason why the 3/4" was suggested was not only to put more paint on. But, it would hopefully create enough roller stipple to maybe get rid of the fuzzies still visible through the orange peel texture and the 3 coats of primer and paint that has already been applied. It might. It might not.
> This would be much easier for the OP then the alternative. :yes:


My father stopped by SW and picked up the lambskin 3/4" roller, so we are good. I'll check the wall to see how it turned out tomorrow and use the lambskin from here on out.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Sir MixAlot said:


> There was a reason why a 3/4" nap was suggested. :thumbsup:


 
I know the reason, I just don't agree. A 3/4 nap in the hands of a diy is not a good idea, imo


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Some thing I do is when I am done with dry wall is spray PVA let it dry then shoot the texture on let that dry and give it a coat of PVA and let it dry and it is ready for paint. don't see it flash.


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

I checked out my tests today and seems like sanding with a thick coat of paint is helping. I'm planning on sanding all the drywall and rolling on a coat of Draw Tite then 2 coats of paint.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Kaveman42 said:


> I checked out my tests today and seems like sanding with a thick coat of paint is helping. I'm planning on sanding all the drywall and rolling on a coat of Draw Tite then 2 coats of paint.


 
Where are you getting Draw tite?


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

I got it from Scotch Paint here in Gardena, CA. The company that makes it is only a few minutes from my house.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Kaveman42 said:


> I got it from Scotch Paint here in Gardena, CA. The company that makes it is only a few minutes from my house.


 
Wish I could get it here on the east coast without paying massive shipping charges, that stuff puts Gardz to shame:yes:


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

It looks to me from the pics that the tape joints were done poorly and that the studs were all crowned to the inside.That is just from the pics and what I can see.I would skim coat the wall and try again.Could be the painting or technique just hard to tell from the pics but looks like all the studs are showing as well as the tape joints.Just does not look to me like the wals are nowhere flat.Check with a 6' straightedge


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## KD PAINTING (Nov 8, 2012)

Looks like you'll need to skim coat the entire walls in order to have an even finish and eliminate the flashing you see, good luck!


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## Kaveman42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Hey guys, just wanted to provide an update. We went ahead and called the contractor about the issue. After they tried to convince me that it was from the paint, they finally realized it wasn't and decided to skim the wall. This is currently in progress, so I'll post some pics when its done. Can't wait to put this behind me.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> I use that cover all the time in fact it's my go to on texture and I have never had that problem. I just went back and re-read your post. Another thing that should help is instead of eggshell go down in sheen to a satin or matte.


It's interesting that you've mentioned that order of sheen before. I think for most companies, of those 3 sheens, matte has the least, eggshell the middle, and satin the most. What paint are you using for which eggshell is more shiny?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Sorry didn't realize I was doing it.


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