# joist hanger nail size--confused



## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

nailing floor joists into LVL beam. this is a beam we are inserting into ceiling between kitchen and dining room that is replacing a wall. engineer drew everything up but didnt include the nail size for joist hangers. everyone, including national lumber pro desk is telling me that 10d simpson stron tie nails (1.5 inch) are what i should use....they just seem short...any opinions.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

better phone the Engineer.
1.5 inch joist hanger nails are okay to use un-spec'd into single 2 by material like a rim joist, but sometimes the loads on the hangers need different fasteners.
Are all the hangers singles? or are there any doubles?


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## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

all singles


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

some joist hangers have an angled hole from the joist to the ledger that should be longer i belive,not sure if its a 10 or a 16 tho sorry


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Tom Struble hinted to a very important factor. The majority of face mount joist hangers these days are called "double shear" joist hangers. They involve some angled toenails that are driven into the carried joist diagonally and into the beam. It is absolutely critical that a full length nail, and not a 1-1/2" nail, be used in this application. The shorter nail doesn't adequately penetrate the header, and using it greatly de-rates the load carrying capacity of the hanger.

The main application of the 1-1/2" nails is on the type of hangers that involve nail holes that allow a nail to be driven perpendicular through the side of the hanger into the joist. Face nails should be full length nails clinched over in most framing situations, _unless you're dealing with an appearance issue like you would be on a deck_. Both Simpson and USP make it very clear that the short nails shouldn't be substituted in for longer nails, and both give de-rating factors for the load carrying capacity of their hangers if the wrong nails are used....Here... http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/nails.asp

Don't trust the lumberyard. The odds are that they're misleading you. Odds are that you're required to use a full-length 10 common nail in those hangers, but it does depend on the hanger. You can look up the specific specs for the specific hanger you have online at the manufacturer's website.

www.uspconnectors.com is USP's website
www.strongtie.com is Simpson's website


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Good post KC. Only thing I would add is if you are using Simpson hangars, you must use Simpson nails if you want to retain the Simpson warranty, NOT standard framing nails. Simpson uses galvanized nails, and based on the box of Simpson nails I have in the basement, I think they are slightly different diameter than standard framing nails. 

Simpson has an outstanding PDF file available on their website which includes details for every one of their products, including the specific Simpson nail required for warrantied installation, and if you are still confused, I agree with previous post, call the engineer.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Simpson uses galvanized nails, and based on the box of Simpson nails I have in the basement, I think they are slightly different diameter than standard framing nails.


They're hot-dipped galvanized nails so they can be used in treated framing lumber. The thicker diameter is because they're common nails, not the standard box nails which are thinner. Using a box nail reduces the listed load carrying capacity.


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## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

correct..these are the simpson hangers and the simpson 1.5 hot dipped galvanize nails...thick ones.


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## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

ok. looks like 16 common is called for in the type of joist i am using for the double shear angled nails. i guess it wouldnt hurt to do the simpson 16 common for the face nails as well.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Usually only the 10d fit thru the holes on the simpson hangers


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

Take your hanger model number and look it up in the Simpson wood connector catalog (available from Simpson Strong Tie company). You will find the load values and fastener types required for the hanger(s) you are using listed there. If a specific hanger model was not specified then you will have to use the loads calculated by the engineer and match them to a hanger.


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## rocketdoctor (Mar 18, 2009)

I had same issue and finally found answers on Simpsons sites noted above as well. Also if your going to be installing a lot of joists I recommend getting yourself a neumatic Palm hammer, they are relatively inexpensive and a great time saver. I think they are right about simpons nails being bigger, the head of Simpsons 16D nails didn't fit in my Palm Hammer where other manufacturers did?


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## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

*thanks*

gave the engineer a call back and figured it out. decided to go with lvl beams and insert them into the ceiling. joist hangers with 1.5 inch nails nailed into the joist and 3 inch into the beam...


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## edfromma (Oct 19, 2009)

*palm nailer*

anyone reccomend a good palm nailer. after hand nailing approx 250 nails yesterday inside the ceiling over my head, my hands are junk. i have a few tight spots that i cant hammer and would need some sort of palm nailer etc to get in there.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Bostich makes a good one.


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## martin.rayner3 (Mar 2, 2010)

edfromma said:


> nailing floor joists into LVL beam. this is a beam we are inserting into ceiling between kitchen and dining room that is replacing a wall. engineer drew everything up but didnt include the nail size for joist hangers. everyone, including national lumber pro desk is telling me that 10d simpson stron tie nails (1.5 inch) are what i should use....they just seem short...any opinions.


 in the UK Simpsom state 30mm square twist nails or 38mm posative plasement nails from paslow and 100mm scewd whear neaded


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## barefootdecks (Mar 3, 2010)

edfromma said:


> nailing floor joists into LVL beam. this is a beam we are inserting into ceiling between kitchen and dining room that is replacing a wall. engineer drew everything up but didnt include the nail size for joist hangers. everyone, including national lumber pro desk is telling me that 10d simpson stron tie nails (1.5 inch) are what i should use....they just seem short...any opinions.


you may need a longer nail depending on the hanger specs.


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