# Haunted GE Microwave Oven turns itself on?



## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

Probably took an electrical hit and main board is malfunctioning. If they are coming tomorrow no need to worry right?


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

I guess not, but if it was a power surge I wonder if that's covered under the manufacturer's warranty? The outlet it's connected to is a 20-amp dedicated microwave outlet, but it's not GFCI and it's not surge protected. Should it be?


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

Whole house surge protection in the main panel is the way to go these days.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Self-starting microwaves are far more common that you would expect. Consumer Reports magazine did an article about the issue a while back. I don't recall exactly what the cause is, or if it's the same cause for different brands. But a number of houses have caught fire after the microwave turned itself on when nobody was home. Oddly, there has been a similar issue with some dishwashers catching fire. I think there's even a class action lawsuit about that.


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## venator260 (Apr 1, 2013)

md2lgyk said:


> Self-starting microwaves are far more common that you would expect. Consumer Reports magazine did an article about the issue a while back. I don't recall exactly what the cause is, or if it's the same cause for different brands. But a number of houses have caught fire after the microwave turned itself on when nobody was home. Oddly, there has been a similar issue with some dishwashers catching fire. I think there's even a class action lawsuit about that.


That happened to my in-laws. 

They happened to get awakened by it in the middle of the night. They went into their kitchen and the microwave was so hot they couldn't even lay a hand on it.


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## Pro Painter (Jun 25, 2008)

Nowadays electronics of any kind (or anything that contains electronics) may exhibit random malfunctions, and they do. Satellites die, nuclear power plants suddenly shut off, Toyotas go into uncontrolled acceleration and tear down the road until they hit something...it's all very real. The NASA scientists found those Toyotas were going out-of-control due to finer-than-a-hair metal filaments called Tin Whiskers. NASA has a whole website about it and there's hundreds of Government and Industry scientists and engineers that have been working on the issue for over ten years. One of the engineers has a fairly readable website about it---www.tinwhisker.us Fascinating.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Pro Painter said:


> Nowadays electronics of any kind (or anything that contains electronics) may exhibit random malfunctions, and they do. Satellites die, nuclear power plants suddenly shut off, Toyotas go into uncontrolled acceleration and tear down the road until they hit something...it's all very real. The NASA scientists found those Toyotas were going out-of-control due to finer-than-a-hair metal filaments called Tin Whiskers. NASA has a whole website about it and there's hundreds of Government and Industry scientists and engineers that have been working on the issue for over ten years. One of the engineers has a fairly readable website about it---www.tinwhisker.us Fascinating.


Wow! That is fascinating stuff and explains why I've noticed more electronics failures today versus the past.


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## Pro Painter (Jun 25, 2008)

If you buy anything with electronics in it, buy the Extended Warranty, whether a microwave or a car. Make sure it's a Manufacturer's Warranty, not a Store Warranty. They are selling for typically six to ten percent of purchase price, yet there's a thirty percent chance something in the electronics will fail in 5-6 years due to a Tin Whisker.

Manufacturers don't want to admit this is a problem and so they don't price this huge risk into the warranty. No one wants to admit their electronics have this problem, being all afraind of the Predatory Plaintiff's Lawyer and product-liability lawsuits, and so no one wants to be the first to publicly admit it, raise their prices a bit and use more reliable electronics that don't have this problem. All the technical stuff is on the NASA website if you want to learn more.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Pro Painter said:


> If you buy anything with electronics in it, buy the Extended Warranty, whether a microwave or a car. Make sure it's a Manufacturer's Warranty, not a Store Warranty. They are selling for typically six to ten percent of purchase price, yet there's a thirty percent chance something in the electronics will fail in 5-6 years due to a Tin Whisker.
> 
> Manufacturers don't want to admit this is a problem and so they don't price this huge risk into the warranty. No one wants to admit their electronics have this problem, being all afraind of the Predatory Plaintiff's Lawyer and product-liability lawsuits, and so no one wants to be the first to publicly admit it, raise their prices a bit and use more reliable electronics that don't have this problem. All the technical stuff is on the NASA website if you want to learn more.


I used to stay away from factory warranties, but rest assured I'm getting one for my microwave. I did see the NASA stuff. Very compelling.

BTW, I'm not sure this contributed to the failure of my particular microwave since it was manufactured in 2012. It seems like it takes a while for the tin whiskers to grow to the point where they create an issue.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

digitalplumber said:


> Probably took an electrical hit and main board is malfunctioning. If they are coming tomorrow no need to worry right?


You guessed correctly. It was the main control board.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

check with your credit card first, some auto extend manufacturers warranty.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

kcrossley2 said:


> You guessed correctly. It was the main control board.


 
Lucky guess that's all it could have been.


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## Pro Painter (Jun 25, 2008)

kcrossley2 said:


> I used to stay away from factory warranties, but rest assured I'm getting one for my microwave. I did see the NASA stuff. Very compelling.
> 
> BTW, I'm not sure this contributed to the failure of my particular microwave since it was manufactured in 2012. It seems like it takes a while for the tin whiskers to grow to the point where they create an issue.


The time between when a manufacturer assembles something and when the component was made might be weeks, or even a few years or more. There's something called a "supply-chain", that is parts being made, stored in a distributor's warehouse, eventually moved to a manufacturer's warehouse, and finally used to make something. It can take weeks or years.

What I found in some of the papers on the NASA website is that tin grows whiskers sometimes promptly, and sometimes slowly, and sometimes there's a ten-year dormant period and then they start growing. Or, maybe in three years or one. Sometimes they only wait a few days and then grow an eighth of an inch in a few weeks. NASA admits they cannot predict what tin-plated part will whisker sooner, or later. About the only sure thing they found is that if some parts from a production batch start whiskering sooner, or later, or at some time, other parts from that same production batch are very likely to do the same. Not guaranteed, just very likely.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

kcrossley2 said:


> You guessed correctly. It was the main control board.


As it turns out, it wasn't the main control board. Our microwave is still exhibiting the very same problem as before. Unfortunately, I wasn't home the day the GE serviceman made the repair. My wife said he demonstrated that the microwave was functioning before he left. 

When I dug a little further I found out that his first attempt at powering on the microwave resulted in a tripped GFCI circuit in our kitchen. He then attempted to connect the microwave to a second GFCI circuit and apparently was able to get it to work.

When my sons and I reinstalled it over the range and plugged it into a microwave specific, non-GFCI outlet the microwave promptly shorted out and refused to operate. I checked the outlet with a circuit tester and it's functioning fine. besides, that's where the old microwave was plugged in and worked for 6 years. 

I unplugged it let it sit for about an hour and it came back to life, but had the very same problem as before. Very weird. To me, it sounds like some sort of a grounding problem. Why would a device trip a GFCI circuit and then fail on a non GFCI circuit?


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## Pro Painter (Jun 25, 2008)

Tin whiskers vaporize instantly where ther is considerable power availabe, as with power outlets.. With the low-power control circuitry replaced and the oven then worked, that's not likely the problem. Unplugging and letting sit for an hour and it then working argues for something that cooled off and ceased to be a problem.

Many electrical connections are made with nuts and bolts and lugs on the end of wires, or crimped wires on "fast-on" connectors that slide onto a small metal tongue about a quarter-inch wide. All of those things can loosen with age and thermal cycling.

A detailed inspection inside the [unplugged!] microwave with a pair of long-nose pliers, wiggling all the connections and looking with a strong light for discolored things, may be instructive.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Well I have the GE Tech coming out tomorrow so we'll see what he finds.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

If its under the original warranty, push to have it totally replaced. (Not the part recently installed.) 

I had bought some GE parts from an authorized vendor. They arrived damaged, they refused to warranty. I called GE and they replaced them free of charge, no exchange and no further questions..

I believe this is the number I called 1 8000 386 1215. If this is a real issue with their product, they may have a promotion in process to resolve this. Push the safety and liability issue. Tell them you no longer want this dangerous product in your house for fear of fire. Be nice though!

Give this a shot especially if the guy cannot figure it out.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

digitalplumber said:


> If its under the original warranty, push to have it totally replaced. (Not the part recently installed.)
> 
> I had bought some GE parts from an authorized vendor. They arrived damaged, they refused to warranty. I called GE and they replaced them free of charge, no exchange and no further questions..
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post. If the repairman cannot fix it this time I will definitely ask for a replacement.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

digitalplumber said:


> If its under the original warranty, push to have it totally replaced. (Not the part recently installed.)
> 
> I had bought some GE parts from an authorized vendor. They arrived damaged, they refused to warranty. I called GE and they replaced them free of charge, no exchange and no further questions..
> 
> ...


Just got a call from the GE Tech. He asked what was going on. When I told him the microwave was doing the same thing as before he said he didn't need to come out because he was sure it was another defective control board. He also said he recently replaced four control boards in a traditional GE oven before he installed one that worked. 

When I asked him what would happen if it blows yet another control board, he said he would keep putting them in until one of them works. When I inquired about getting a new product he said I'd have to take that up with Sears. He then used a car analogy to illustrate his reasoning saying that if I'm having problems with my car I wouldn't go back to the manufacturer to get a new car. What the heck? There's a big difference between a $900 microwave and a $30,000 automobile.

Anyway, I decided to contact GE Customer Support to officially document my experience. The rep I spoke with apologized for the inconvenience and said she would followup with me after the next repair attempt. At this point, a GE Extended Warranty is now a necessity, in my humble opinion and at around $5/month definitely worth the extra expense. I'll update this thread as soon as I know more.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Just found a pretty cool website on troubleshooting the GE JVM3670SK06 Microwave. Maybe it can help others who are having problems.

http://www.repairclinic.com/RepairH...120-/GE-Microwave-JVM3670SK06-Troubleshooting


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Oops! I forgot to mention that the GE Tech ordered a new control board (as expected) as well as a new magnetron. Apparently he suspects that the magnetron may be part of the problem. I guess we'll find out next Monday.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

It's not a GE tech you need, it's an exorcist. Get a couple estimates from local churches. :jester:


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Red Squirrel said:


> It's not a GE tech you need, it's an exorcist. Get a couple estimates from local churches. :jester:


I wish it were that easy. LOL


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## agoodboy (Apr 5, 2013)

kcrossley2 said:


> ... he said he didn't need to come out because he was sure it was another defective control board. He also said he recently replaced four control boards in a traditional GE oven before he installed one that worked.
> 
> When I asked him what would happen if it blows yet another control board, he said he would keep putting them in until one of them works...


 Maybe I’m missing something here but that GE tech sure has some strange way of troubleshooting. I think you are getting a “story”. Normally when you swap boards you know the replacement board you are putting in is in fact good because you’ve tested it in a properly working system. If GE knows they have a significant number of defective “smart boards” why shouldn’t they be the ones to sort them out? Your house is becoming a test bed.

I would check the Rev # of the board he is putting in and ask if that is the latest Rev #.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

agoodboy said:


> Maybe I’m missing something here but that GE tech sure has some strange way of troubleshooting. I think you are getting a “story”. Normally when you swap boards you know the replacement board you are putting in is in fact good because you’ve tested it in a properly working system. If GE knows they have a significant number of defective “smart boards” why shouldn’t they be the ones to sort them out? Your house is becoming a test bed.
> 
> I would check the Rev # of the board he is putting in and ask if that is the latest Rev #.


The GE Tech orders the parts he thinks he'll need and they're shipped directly to me. I would think GE would test all of their parts before shipment, especially if there is an identifiable, defective lot. 

The biggest hassle with this particular over-the-range microwave is it can't be serviced without completely removing it from the wall, which was a builder installation error from what I heard. 

This time I'm going to use it on the counter for at least a week after it's repaired to ensure it's working properly before I attempt to reinstall it above the stove. Quite frankly, I think you're right. I feel like there's something else that's going on here besides the control board.


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## agoodboy (Apr 5, 2013)

Sounds like a good idea to use it on the counter for a while. You are a very patient person and maybe they are taking advantage of your good nature. I agree with one of the other posts and I think you are certainly justified in asking for a new product if you wanted to. After multiple failed attempts at repair maybe there is just a design flaw with that model and I think you would be well justified in asking for a different model, that is, if a different model would be compatible with your layout.

That GE tech is a barrel of laughs with his car analogy. lol 

Hope the next attempt is successful!


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

agoodboy said:


> Sounds like a good idea to use it on the counter for a while. You are a very patient person and maybe they are taking advantage of your good nature. I agree with one of the other posts and I think you are certainly justified in asking for a new product if you wanted to. After multiple failed attempts at repair maybe there is just a design flaw with that model and I think you would be well justified in asking for a different model, that is, if a different model would be compatible with your layout.
> 
> That GE tech is a barrel of laughs with his car analogy. lol
> 
> Hope the next attempt is successful!


They kind of have me between a rock and a hard place. Even if I asked them for a replacement, very few, if any, exist because this particular model (36" width) has been discontinued for sometime. In fact, I was very lucky to find a new one still hanging around. 

At this point, I hope they can repair it. I'm also very interested to find out what the problem is.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

kcrossley2 said:


> They kind of have me between a rock and a hard place. Even if I asked them for a replacement, very few, if any, exist because this particular model (36" width) has been discontinued for sometime. In fact, I was very lucky to find a new one still hanging around.
> 
> At this point, I hope they can repair it. I'm also very interested to find out what the problem is.


If that is the case, then they will have to keep replacing parts or find one. There are several models on eBay.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Okay, here's the latest. Yesterday, I received (2) control boards and a magnetron via FedEx. Clearly, the GE Tech doesn't have a lot of confidence in the quality of the GE control boards if he ordered two. We'll see what happens Monday.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

kcrossley2 said:


> Okay, here's the latest. Yesterday, I received (2) control boards and a magnetron via FedEx. Clearly, the GE Tech doesn't have a lot of confidence in the quality of the GE control boards if he ordered two. We'll see what happens Monday.


 
Would not surprise me if GE knows of the issue, bad control boards, so they sent 2.

Good luck!


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## techpappy (Jul 8, 2012)

verrrry in ter es ting....but, not verrry funny (quote from old TV show called Laff In)

just interested in the outcome


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## agoodboy (Apr 5, 2013)

kcrossley2 said:


> They kind of have me between a rock and a hard place. Even if I asked them for a replacement, very few, if any, exist because this particular model (36" width) has been discontinued for sometime. In fact, I was very lucky to find a new one still hanging around.
> 
> At this point, I hope they can repair it. I'm also very interested to find out what the problem is.


 Know what you mean! I have a 40" space that had an oven/slide-out cooktop that looked like it came from the Jestsons. Got a real shock when I had to replace it. Found only 2 electric 40" ranges - and actually they really looked to be the same with just a slight variation in the oven window.


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## agoodboy (Apr 5, 2013)

techpappy said:


> verrrry in ter es ting....but, not verrry funny (quote from old TV show called Laff In)
> 
> just interested in the outcome


 Know this doesn't help solve the problem- but Arte Johnson is 84 years old now! Can' t believe it. It's a [email protected]&^% getting old. lol


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Okay, here's the latest. This morning the GE Tech installed another control board. The display came to life, but there was no heat. He then checked the fuse, which had blown. Replaced the fuse, powered on the microwave and once again the control board blew.

Upon further examination, he discovered a wire on the right side that was exposed. Apparently, the wire had been sandwiched between two pieces of metal which caused the short. Look closely at the red wire in the lower left part of the image below. Thankfully, he had the foresight to order a second board. He repaired the cut wire with electrical tape, installed the second control panel and everything seems to be working fine now.

All this damage and expense over a simple manufacturing error. I wonder if it was built with illegal workers.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

cool!


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## agoodboy (Apr 5, 2013)

Wonder what the GE tech had planned if he had run out of boards? lol

Good news! All's well that ends well!


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