# one piece shower pan - cutouts at bottom?



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You need to post a picture or two of the situation--Then you will get some answers--Mike--


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

We had a "discussion" of these over at InspectionNews a while back: Two overflow holes on shower base.

My conclusion is "no one really knows", so I'll be interested to see if anyone here has more information.

Meanwhile, ff you can ID the manufacturer of your shower base, I'll follow up with their tech support and try to get an answer.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Michael T - the linked thread you provided is EXACTLY what I'm talking about (picture attached for others).

The drain screen has the letters "ELM" molded into it so I think it is manufactured by http://www.mustee.com and the specific product is http://www.mustee.com/product-lines/shower-floors/rectangular.html, Model 3442M.

I thought they were possibly weep holes but with allowing water to seep behind the sheetrock I wasn't certain. I suppose they are sloped slightly toward the pan but apparently not enough. If they are weep holes I guess I shouldn't seal them but I also don't want the sheetrock to remain wet.

I'll appreciate any insight you can gain from their tech support, or thoughts from anyone on this forum.

Thanks again!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

You might try calling the company about them.
Ron


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## Mop in Hand (Feb 5, 2009)

They are weep/overflow drains. They are placed near the shower door so the water that gets on the upper rim will not flow towards the bottom of the door. You mentioned "allowing water to seep behind the sheetrock" ??? There should not be any sheetrock behind the tile.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

MopHead:

The weep holes do no appear to be dead ends. I looked into them and straight in they appear to stop at the liner behind the tile. However, they appear to make a 90 degree turn toward the door so the sheetrock being damaged is outside the door, not behind the tile. In other words, water enters the weep hole and makes the 90 degree turn to "spill" outside the enclosure. I will add, at the 90 degree turn the weep hole is open only half the height of the opening at the pan. So it seems in theory the water should not leave the enclosure. But only in theory. 

Your explanation of the intent makes perfect sense. The design just seems to be slightly flawed.

Or maybe the 90 degree turn is supposed to be caulked?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

GMAGDNA said:


> MopHead:
> 
> The weep holes do no appear to be dead ends. I looked into them and straight in they appear to stop at the liner behind the tile. However, they appear to make a 90 degree turn toward the door so the sheetrock being damaged is outside the door, not behind the tile. In other words, water enters the weep hole and makes the 90 degree turn to "spill" outside the enclosure. I will add, at the 90 degree turn the weep hole is open only half the height of the opening at the pan. So it seems in theory the water should not leave the enclosure. But only in theory.
> 
> ...


I've never seen these indents go anywhere or do anything. The lip that surrounds the shower base is continuous.
The water damage is from something else.
Ron


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Here are the reasons I am quite certain the damage is from the weep hole:

1) I stuck a pipe cleaner in the 90 degree turn and was able to insert it further than the distance between the pan and where the lip should have stopped it.

2) in looking at the pics and diagrams on the Mustee site I don't see there's a raised lip around edge on all four sides. Specifically, there does not appear to be a lip on the one side where the door mounts. I think you can just barely see these weep holes in the pic, on the sides perpendicular to the lip.

3) The reason I found the water damage and started looking at the weep holes was due to ants. They were in the corner next to the shower door and entering a poor caulk job on the baseboard. Because the ants were also in the pan and coming in through the weep hole...you see where I made the discovery the weep hole is not sealed. Verified with the very scientific pipe cleaner in #1 above.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

GMAGDNA said:


> Here are the reasons I am quite certain the damage is from the weep hole:
> 
> 1) I stuck a pipe cleaner in the 90 degree turn and was able to insert it further than the distance between the pan and where the lip should have stopped it.
> 
> ...


There's no lip in the front because that's the threshold where you step into the shower. There's an installation procedure that caulks the tile under and behind it. There's also a way to attach the wall material so it does not come into contact with the end of the shower base. You butt it up to the side, not put it in front. You would then caulk the space between the end of the wall material and the shower base. The tile would go over that, caulking behind and under where it hits the floor.
Where is the damage? Post some photos.
Ron


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Ignore the muck in the photos - previous owners did not do so good maintaining the shower.

Photo on left is taken down the bottom edge of the door sill, toward the wall. You can see the weep hole on the left with the water damage being directly across from it on the right, outside the shower. While I took a few more photos in which you can better see the water damage, can't see that's of value to post. Behind the damaged area is partly the master bathroom (not near the plumbing) and partly a load bearing wall. Water damage is isolated to an area of about 4 inches, radiating from the corner of the wall, baseboard and shower wall intersection.

Photo on right is as close as I could get to the weep hole and still stay reasonably focused. You can see what I mean by it taking a 90 degree turn, towards the outside of the pan. The bit of mucky brown stuff at the front of the hole is caulk which stops just inside the hole.

I just realized I may have written some confusing construction details by referring to an enclosure. The shower walls are 6" white ceramic tiles, pan is a fiberglass product from Mustee, assume the shower walls are theirs, too.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

It's a release trough. It's lower then the surrounding rim. Water that sits around the perimeter will fall into the trough, as it builds up, and fall back into the base.
If the water damage is outside the areas in front of the release area, the installation details were done incorrectly.
Ron


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## Mop in Hand (Feb 5, 2009)

So, why don't you just clean it and caulk it?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Mop in Hand said:


> So, why don't you just clean it and caulk it?


The recesses are there for a reason. They are not the problem.
Caulking them will do no good.
The issue is* in* *front* of the recesses. They need to be exposed, dried, cleaned and caulked.
Ron


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## Mop in Hand (Feb 5, 2009)

I get it Ron. I've installed this type before. My best guess is that the install failed. I also should have explained myself further. I should have said in front of recess. I did not mean to fill the trough with caulk.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Mop in Hand said:


> I get it Ron. I've installed this type before. My best guess is that the install failed. I also should have explained myself further. I should have said in front of recess. I did not mean to fill the trough with caulk.


Do you happen to remember the manufacturer? I'm hitting a dead-end in finding out, including a post over at the John Bridge Tile Forum.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Ron and Mop,

So I'm a little confused...indulge my ignorance. While I don't quite see why they are there based on your description of purpose, I understand they are molded into the base and so serve a need. I say I don't see why they are there because if they are to catch water from inside the shower, and are not weep holes to allow moisture to vent from behind the tiles, then why not just make the base smooth? I'll appreciate understanding that, if you can help me.

On to correcting the install...Are you saying the part where it angles towards the front should be caulked, and should have been filled during install, leaving the actual trough open? If so, I can clean and fill without taking the stall apart, correct?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

GMAGDNA said:


> Ron and Mop,
> 
> So I'm a little confused...indulge my ignorance. While I don't quite see why they are there based on your description of purpose, I understand they are molded into the base and so serve a need. I say I don't see why they are there because if they are to catch water from inside the shower, and are not weep holes to allow moisture to vent from behind the tiles, then why not just make the base smooth? I'll appreciate understanding that, if you can help me.
> 
> On to correcting the install...Are you saying the part where it angles towards the front should be caulked, and should have been filled during install, leaving the actual trough open? If so, I can clean and fill without taking the stall apart, correct?


The recesses are there so that the water running down the walls does not have a continuous path to the area outside the shower. The water falls into the recesses and back into the shower base. But the water hitting the corners where the shower door is located will sit on the lip of the shower base. That's the water that is getting out of the shower area and staining the wall base.
To fix the issue, you need to:
1. Remove the shower door and the tracks on the wall.
2. You need to clean and dry the area from the recesses to the exterior edge of the base.
3. You need to open the area between the shower base and the wall material so you have at least 1/8" space all the way back to the shower base lip.
4. Clean and dry that throughly.(Use a hair dryer)
5. Use a 100% silicone caulk to fill the gap from the recess to the showerbase front.
6. Replace the door frame(after cleaning the wall surface), caulking the interface of the track and the wall on the inside of the shower.
7. Wait at least 24 hours before using the shower.
You're done.
Ron


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks, Ron. If the right way to correct is to pull it apart then that's what I'll do. Don't want to fix a failed install with a half ass re-install. I appreciate the step by step.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

As I was preparing to repair the install I realized the instructions will not correct the water leak. The drain channel sits under the tile, not under the door rail. I think you can see this in the pics inserted in my previous post.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

GMAGDNA said:


> As I was preparing to repair the install I realized the instructions will not correct the water leak. The drain channel sits under the tile, not under the door rail. I think you can see this in the pics inserted in my previous post.


The problem is that you do not understand the cause of the water getting out of the shower, even after it's been told to you. Even after you've been told how to fix it, step by step.
Nothing more to be done.

Good luck.
Ron


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

It seems highly unlikely (or impossible) your steps will fix the leak. You made a previous misdiagnosis stating the water must be coming from a source other than the shower. Then I provided pics and you then suggested a repair to the door. A leak in the seal under/ around the door track cannot possibly be the source of the leak because the track butts against the tile, the tile sits over the track,to much water seeping by to be from a bad silicone job.

No point in explaining further. While I'm sure you have a nice following here and many people will come to your defense, fixing the door seal is not fixing the problem. But just for grins, and because I wnt to prove a point, I repaired the door as you suggested and in two days I'll either eat crow or let you know it failed.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

It seems highly unlikely (or impossible) your steps will fix the leak. You made a previous misdiagnosis stating the water must be coming from a source other than the shower. Then I provided pics and you then suggested a repair to the door. A leak in the seal under/ around the door track cannot possibly be the source of the leak because the track butts against the tile, the tile sits over the track,to much water seeping by to be from a bad silicone job.

No point in explaining further. While I'm sure you have a nice following here and many people will come to your defense, fixing the door seal is not fixing the problem. But just for grins, and because I wnt to prove a point, I repaired the door as you suggested and in two days I'll either eat crow or let you know it failed. Which you'll no doubt claim is the fault of my repair work as opposed to the appropriateness of the repair work.


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## GMAGDNA (Jan 19, 2011)

Took longer than expected to return.

There was no evidence of water damage associated with a bad install to the door but I initially performed only that repair as recommended. Have since torn the door/ frame back down, pulled the bullnose wall tile to which the door frame was mounted and made some repairs there. Including filling in part of the weep hole which was, in fact, allowing water to enter the wall. This as the cause is also supported as the cause of water damage by the fact the aforementioned ants were entering the shower through the weep hole. If the ants are coming in then the water can get out. They certainly were not coming in around the door/ frame. No continued water damage for the past week or ten days. Problem solved.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the update.

Did you happen to take any pictures during the process?


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