# York AC unit running slow...Please help :^(



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Many units don't have a low pressure switch.

Good chance its the capacitor.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Yep, especially if it is visibly bulged/deformed looking.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Guess I will try a new run capacitor.

In the event that doesn't work....what else can the problem be?

Might I add that I do NOT have to start anything by hand......Just seems like the pump and fan speed is at about 60%

Would it cut down the speed on the two if it were low on freon?

This unit is only about 6-7 years old.

I have read about a 24 Volts at a certain location on the unit.....can anyone tell me exactly where so I can check it?

At the contactor I seem to have 238 Volts


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

A weak capacitor can cause the fan to run slower.

The 24 volts is the control voltage. Which has no bearing on compressor or fan speed. But would be checked across the contactors 24 volt coil.

Low of refrigerant wouldn't cause the fan to spin slower.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

beenthere said:


> A weak capacitor can cause the fan to run slower.
> 
> The 24 volts is the control voltage. Which has no bearing on compressor or fan speed. But would be checked across the contactors 24 volt coil.
> 
> Low of refrigerant would cause the fan to spin slower.


I just installed a new dual run capacitor and it made no difference.

You say that being low on refrigerant will tell the unit to cut down the fan/pump speed to keep from freezing up?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Sorry.

Meant to say that it wouldn't cause the fan speed to decrease.

Could have bearings tightening up on the fan motor.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Fan bearings are great....spins rather easily and really smooth.

What else can make this whole thing slow down?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Is it really slowed down. or does it just look that way to you, now that its not cooling right. Lots of people don't take notice tot he fan speed when their A/C is working.

You may have had 238 volts at the contactor when the A/C wasn't running. But what is the voltage when it is running.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

I take notice to the fan speed all the time.....now that its slower.....I can hear the pump, has a slight gargling buzzing noise, but I do believe its running. Figured it always sounded like that....just more noticeable with out the fan at full blast. Pretty much sound like a normal compressor to me.

I checked the Volts and it is 238 to 239 on the feed side when off.......and 238 to 239 on both sides when on.

In addition.....last year it was not working so well and the High line WAS getting hot, but the Low line was NOT getting cold. 

Now it wont even do that.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

A slow running fan could cause the small line to get very hot.

So if its running slow, and the small line isn't getting hot. You have more trouble then just a slow running fan.

Might be time to bite the bullet, and call a tech to diagnose it. Might be a dirty condenser coil, and a low charge caused by a leak.

Have you checked the amp draw when the unit is running.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

I have a super fancy BluePoint digital volt meter I got From Snapon.

What setting do I need to have it on for that, and where do I check it? What should it be?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Can that meter check amp draw on AC electric?

You would check it on one of the line voltage wires feeding the condenser.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Guess its the DCA? 

It has 200 with a backwards y then 2m, 20m, 200m, 2, 10


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Won't do AC amps.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Also has a section for ACA and an A with the wave line above it.........and it has OHM


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Doubt its rated to run a high load through it. Generally need a clamp on attachment. To clamp around the wire.

What amp listing is at the ACA setting.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

beenthere said:


> Doubt its rated to run a high load through it. Generally need a clamp on attachment. To clamp around the wire.
> 
> What amp listing is at the ACA setting.


200 with backwards y then 2m, 20m, 200m, 2m, 10

It also has clamp-on's

this is the model.
http://image.snapon.com/international/pdf/eedm503cpa.pdf


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Anything up in the attic unit that can keep the refrigerant from moving......like an expansion valve....or anything else electronic?


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Just last year I thoroughly cleaned the attic coil.....just looked and its pristine.


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## kb3ca (Aug 22, 2008)

My outdoor condensing fan runs at a lower speed in the evening when the outdoor temperature drops. Maybe your's does the same and you are also low on refrigerant.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Some units have a 2 speed condensor fan which runs slower in the evening when it is cooler. Goes to high speed at around 70degF. You need a clamp on ammeter to see if the compressor is drawing any amps. Your inline meter is not suitable. Check this one: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...eters+&+Meters&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1


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## kb3ca (Aug 22, 2008)

One other thought: Check the points on the contactor to see how badly they are burnt. Could be a high resistance reducing current flow across the contactor.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

I really do not think it is a two speed.....I have never seen it run slower until now......It is 90 degrees in TX today

I hear the pump doing something but I'm not sure if its not doing anything or if the freon is bone dry.

The contact points have been cleaned....no change

Here is what the gauges read when its running with the red on the high, and the blue on the low.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If the compressor is running. Your just about out of refrigerant. Even if its not running, your just about out of gas. Looks like it has a few ounces in it.

Needs to be leaked checked. And the leak repaired. And then it can be recharged.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Shut it off ASAP. Looks like it has no freon and the compressor will now overheat and get damaged! Even a 1/2 lb sitting idle should get you a higher reading. Looks like you just have air in there now.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

yuri said:


> Shut it off ASAP. Looks like it has no freon and the compressor will now overheat and get damaged! Even a 1/2 lb sitting idle should get you a higher reading. Looks like you just have air in there now.


Its off.....

I only had it running for 5-10 min max 

The outside unit is under warranty so if the leak is in the unit they will have to fix it free of charge.
If the leak is between the unit and the attic.........Well I guess I get to spent $400 plus to have the leak found and fixed, and about 8 pounds of r22 :furious:

And I still dunno why the fan is running slow.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

*DO NOT* touch the condensor when this is happening!! Your compressor may be shorting and backfeeding voltage to the motor and causing it to run slow. The next thing may be the relief valve and or fusite plug blowing and the whole compressor shorting out. Get a tech to check it.
Read these posts for more info:http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/noise-carlyle-compressor-hissing-sound-40239/

AND

http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/resi-c-no-cooling-70566/


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## aggreX (Aug 15, 2008)

kb3ca said:


> One other thought: Check the points on the contactor to see how badly they are burnt. Could be a high resistance reducing current flow across the contactor.


+1.... I'm not HVAC but after replacing my Dual -Run Capacitor I could not get my compressor to start until I replaced the contactor which was not expensive to replace. My condensor fan was rotating slowly and the compressor was not running when I found the DRC rusty and bulging. 

Not to change the subject....but still somewhat relevant ...what type of meter should I purchase to measure a capacitor's capacitance for yearly HVAC maintenance?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Any meter that has a capacitance test feature like this one:http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...eters+&+Meters&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

I use a basic MA Line job.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Well....I must have touched every part of that thing in the last two days.

I would say the fan is running at about 60 maybe 70% speed it used to, and between the last time I used it 4 or 5 months ago and now.....it has lost all refrigerant.

I have a tech coming out on Wed, and I hope to god its something within the unit itself because its under warranty.


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## Sparky8370 (Jan 7, 2009)

At 6-7 years old, even if the unit is factory warrantied labor most likely will not be. Also there is a good chance that if there is a warranty it would be pro-rated. Just be prepared for a  estimate.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

mr.coinring said:


> Its off.....
> 
> I only had it running for 5-10 min max
> 
> ...


Is it under a part and labor warranty.

Or just a part warranty.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Sparky8370 said:


> At 6-7 years old, even if the unit is factory warrantied labor most likely will not be. Also there is a good chance that if there is a warranty it would be pro-rated. Just be prepared for a  estimate.


Extended Warranty from installer...not manufacturer says...

PARTS:
Under this plan, we will replace all parts found to be defective in material or workmanship under normal use and service listed under product information at no cost to you for the specified period. We will endeavor to provide parts and render prompt service at all times, but will not be responsible for delays due to strikes or nonavailability of replacement parts,or any cause beyond our control.

LABOR:
We are responsible for furnishing labor related to replacement of covered parts at no cost to you in fulfillment of this agreement. Replacement of inoperative parts under the terms of this agreement must be performed by....bla....bla.....bla..... during their normal business hours.

Travel:
We are responsible for furnishing the travel cost incurred in the repair.

Expiration date: 
8/11/13

The rest is just plain stupid stuff like about alterations, forces of nature...bla bla bla

Oh....and I put the original run capacitor back on it.


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## aggreX (Aug 15, 2008)

Check the fineprint for any possible warranty loopholes such as proof of any maintenance records or service records. Some Hvac service companies offer a charge to come out to evaluate your cooling system for a fee in the quest for selling service or maintenance contracts or possibly new Hvac systems. The fee could be a worthwhile diagnosis of your system which appears to be freon loss which is beyond most nonHvac folks capabilities...good luck


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Well.....

The techs from the company the outside unit was bought from came out and have determined that the unit is fine.

The problem is the evap coin in the air handler has ruptured a good size leak.

6 dif places have told me they cannot get a replacement because its r22 and from a 30 year old unit.

Guess I get to put in a whole new handler. :furious:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Replacement coils are available for ADP, Superior, and others.

These are third party companies. They also make coils for some of the manufacturers.

Sounds like those companies are trying to sell you a whole new unit, including a new condenser.


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## BlueBSH (Oct 29, 2009)

mr.coinring said:


> Well.....
> 
> The techs from the company the outside unit was bought from came out and have determined that the unit is fine.
> 
> ...


I have a replaced R-22 coil that is only 2yrs old, they have to still sell them somewhere...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

There still made today by both third parties, and the manufacturers.
Since they have to make them to honor their 5 and 10 year part warranties of units sold in 2009.

Pretty much all new coils are rated for both R22, and R410A.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

The air handler unit in the attic is a 30 year old Carrier.

With the cost of a new coil/labor/refrigerant charge.........I would rather do my best to cut the costs down on a new handler.

My mother works for a company that has a HVAC guy that can get me the handler for $550.

My plan is to do as much as possible my getting the old one out and possibly the new one in ready to have him hook it all up and charge it.

He thinks I will probably not need a TXV.....what do you guys think?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If your going to use the old outdoor unit. And the old coil doesn't have a TXV, then you don't need one.


However. Keep in mind that the condenser may last 10 more years. Or die 3 days after the new air handler is installed.
If if dies 3 days later. You will end up having to replace either the compressor. Or the outdoor unit. And then you are stuck with paying a little extra money to clean out the new coil. So you can use it for your new R410A outdoor unit. And your stuck with getting the brand that this guy can get.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

beenthere said:


> If your going to use the old outdoor unit. And the old coil doesn't have a TXV, then you don't need one.
> 
> 
> However. Keep in mind that the condenser may last 10 more years. Or die 3 days after the new air handler is installed.
> If if dies 3 days later. You will end up having to replace either the compressor. Or the outdoor unit. And then you are stuck with paying a little extra money to clean out the new coil. So you can use it for your new R410A outdoor unit. And your stuck with getting the brand that this guy can get.


I'm going with a 3 ton Carrier air handler.

The outside condenser it still under warranty for 3 years.......This guy can get me anything I want regardless to brand/cost/location


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Then what brand is the outdoor unit.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

beenthere said:


> Then what brand is the outdoor unit.


York....

Thats the same setup that has been going for the last 7 years.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Why would you put a Carrier air handler on a York condenser.

Or do you intend to get a Carrier condenser later.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Because they have the best cost handler I need.

What is the dif any how?

But yeah.....when the time comes I would probably go with a Carrier outside unit.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

One outdoor unit may use a larger or small indoor coil then the other.

Mismatching brands never gets you the rated efficiency of the outdoor unit. So you still pay more for cooling your house then you should be.

I have no doubt, that a new air handler, will help to lower your cooling bill.


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

I see...

I will see what the York brand handler will run...thanks again!


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Well....

Instead of my HVAC buddy hooking me up with a new York or Carrier unit, I was able to find a 3 ton Goodman handler.
It was made in mid 2008 and was hooked up as one of three units in a 5,000sqft brand new home in 2009.
As soon as the house was complete it went through a foreclosure.
The guy who just bought the house changed out all three units to gas.

So this Goodman 3 ton model ARUF364216AC I bought for $225 
http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm/productID/453057258
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Home/Products/AirHandlers/ARUFSeries/tabid/268/Default.aspx

It was hooked up for 1 year and never ran!


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## Secondgear (May 29, 2010)

is it cooling at all?


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## mr.coinring (May 24, 2010)

Secondgear said:


> is it cooling at all?


I was just updating the post as to what I bought to replace an old Carrier handler that recently took a dump.


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## Secondgear (May 29, 2010)

Goodman is a good product. I have installed many.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Ok. So now when the time comes. Your going to get a Goodman condenser.


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