# Recessed lighting, 4" vs 5" vs 6"



## acerunner

I'd like you get some of your opinions on what size to use. I'm installing recessed lighting throughout almost entire house.

Living room: 12.5x16
Dining room: 9x9
Kitchen: 13x10
Hallway: about 4 ft wide
All ceilings are 8 ft

Contractor strongly suggest using all 4" cans for looks. I agree that 4" looks better, but I feel like it doesn't provide enough light. Looks more appropriate as accent lighting. However 6" looks too big for a home, but I like the amount of light.

This is what I've tentativly decided on
Living room: 6" (there are wide trims for the 6"cans that make it look like 4", but u can still use the higher watt bulbs since it's 6". I can use those trims if I decide I don't like the 6")
Dining: 4" (as ascent light since I will have a larger light hanging over the dining table)
Kitchen: 5"
Hallway: 5"

What are your thoughts? Any input appreciated.


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## nap

the height of the ceiling can make a lot of difference in how it all looks and works. I didn't see that mentioned.


You can also go to manufacturers websites and obtain photometric data. That is basically a layout that shows how the light is dispersed and the light level at any given point. It helps in determining how many lights you will need.


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## darren

Nao his last measurment said all ceilings were 8' high.


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## acerunner

yes 8' ceilings.

I will be using Halo cans 4" H99ICT, 5" H5ICAT, 6" H7ICAT. All are IC rated new construction cans.
The local big box stores only caries Halo or Utilitech. And in my experience with other utilitech product, they are quite cheaply made. So I'm going with Halos.

I do not see on their website any photometric data.


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## nap

yep, missed that

I can't seem to find the photometric data either. It used to be available. Not sure why they don't have it now. Sorry about that. Maybe when Frenchelectrician (marc) pops in he will have a source for it.


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## jbfan

I found this.
Hope it helps some.

http://www.cooperlighting.com/content/design/easy_selection_guide/easy_selection_guide1.cfm


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## acerunner

something i find strange is that the 4" are more than double the price of either the 5" or 6". At the quantity I need, I'd be saving a lot of money going with something larger...


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## frenchelectrican

Acerunner .,

Give me at least 24 hours I will have at least couple info what you are looking for and JB fan did have one good link there.

Really for myself I will stick to 6 inch housing they are cheaper than 4 or 5 inch housing.

The smaller housing type I use them for specfic use only but have to watch out on wattage rating as you are allready aware.

The wattage rating will varies a bit I know you will use the new construction cans but read the wattage restriction if you have no insluating matearls next to it you can run higher wattage rating { only if that meet the requirment }

Normally I used Halo or Juno that is the two most common one I get.

Merci.
Marc


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## gmhammes

Personally, I use 6" for almost everything however if i can figure out my closet lighting i may use 4" in there.


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## frenchelectrican

Acerunner.,

There are few tricks I deal with common 6 inch housing is use diffrent variations of trims that will do the tricks for the living room and kitchen area the baffle trim do the trick just countersink the bulbs a little but not too much so keep the glare down a bit.

However in Kitchen area you have to becarefull with recessed can lay out espcally if you have cabents that will affect the way you set the cans so try to set the cans about 18 to 22 inches from the cabents and use the baffle trim that will keep the harshness reduced for rest of the area the standard open trim will work just fine.

If you going to use the CFL or LED bulbs this may change the way you use the trims so if you going that route let us know there is couple trims that will really help a bit on that however I am allready aware that the LED bulbs are not too cheap ATM.,, but they are slowly getting there and also not all LED or CFL are really compatable with dimmer so that is other item you have to watch out.

Most common bulb for standard indentscent is BR30 shape 65 watts size which that is pretty common one There is CFL verison should work simauir to this.

Merci.
Marc


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## acerunner

Thanks for the detailed post, marc.

I will be placing the ones for the kitchen directly above the edge of the counters. This is according to some guidelines I found regarding recessed lighting layout for the kitchen.

I will not be using cfl or leds for this. The cost is still very prohibitive. But I might have to use cfl for the kitchen tho because of california's energy code. Dimmable cfls are even more expensive because if I understand correctly, you need special dimmer for that.


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## frenchelectrican

acerunner said:


> Thanks for the detailed post, marc.
> 
> I will be placing the ones for the kitchen directly above the edge of the counters. This is according to some guidelines I found regarding recessed lighting layout for the kitchen.
> 
> I will not be using cfl or leds for this. The cost is still very prohibitive. But I might have to use cfl for the kitchen tho because of california's energy code. Dimmable cfls are even more expensive because if I understand correctly, you need special dimmer for that.


Acerunner.,

Not a problem at all I am glad to help you on this one and Yeah ., I know when you mention Californié code requirement and they are very picky on that.

For non dimmable CFL verison they can be hardwired { not the screw in bulbs type that will NOT count for Californié requirment } that is not a issue but if you want to stay with indentscent bulbs then either have motion sensor or timer or dimmer { I rather use the dimmer over the Motion sensor or timer } 

The cost to use the dimmer is not too bad depending on what style dimmer you use and they will really save the bulb life in big time and the same time you can save engery as well.

I just want to remind you about 2011 NEC code cycle I know Californié is not there yet but make sure you have netural in the switch box in case you have to use the electronic timer or dimmer which they required netural.

Ok before I get too far off the track on this matter if you going to get pretty close to the edge of cabient then use the baffle trim that will reduce the glare than standard open trim.
I have tried both way the baffle looks little better than open trim type.

And some screw in CFL can use standard dimmer and some require electronic timer { that part you have to check it out }

Hardwired CFL some can use standard dimmer but some required electronic dimmer but all it depending on the ballast manufacter.

Merci.
Marc


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## Scuba_Dave

I've used the 6" pre-pak Halo kits w/trims
A case of 6 was running $45-50
In the kitchen I installed 4" that take the CFL with 4 pins
They were marked down so cost was very low
But in most areas I will use the 6"
Very possible when I redo the kitchen I will change to 6"

I bought a bunch of CFL's when they had $4 instant off coupons here
Now they are about $1 per reg CFL, dimmable are more
Kitchen used to use over 300w & it was dimmly lit
Now with 7 cfl cans & cfl bulbs I use 104w if all are on
Usually just 4 are on = 52w


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## acerunner

frenchelectrican said:


> just want to remind you about 2011 NEC code cycle I know Californié is not there yet but make sure you have netural in the switch box in case you have to use the electronic timer or dimmer which they required netural


Does simply having dimers allow me to meet the california code? Or is that something else you're talking about.


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## Jim Port

The way I understand California's Title 24 is that the fixtures cannot allow incandescent screw-in bulbs. The fixtures must use something like the 4 pin fluorescent type bulb that cannot be changed to incandescent at a later date.


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## acerunner

Jim Port said:


> The way I understand California's Title 24 is that the fixtures cannot allow incandescent screw-in bulbs. The fixtures must use something like the 4 pin fluorescent type bulb that cannot be changed to incandescent at a later date.


Yeah, that is my understanding as well


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## frenchelectrican

Jim Port said:


> The way I understand California's Title 24 is that the fixtures cannot allow incandescent screw-in bulbs. The fixtures must use something like the 4 pin fluorescent type bulb that cannot be changed to incandescent at a later date.


Yeah and also the only way you can have incandsecent bulbs on it is have on the dimmer or on the motion switch or timer that the only other cricta it have to meet.

Merci.
Marc


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## ryan5068

My recessed lighting .02 worth. I think 5" cans are the way to go. Here is why. You can use a higher wattage bulb compared to the 4" and I think 6" cans just look too big. Now go check out this website link as the place to buy your 5" cans and trims. I would certainly recommend using the air-tight trims too as they just look so much better so you cannot see up inside the can itself. I just bought (13) 5" cans and (13) airtight trims for 140.00 right to my door. If you have done any research on the trims they are just as expensive if not more than the actual can lights by them self. Here is the link: 

http://usalight.com/rxtm-530w-5-white-ring-white-baffle-line-voltage-recessed-baffle-trim.html 

and 

http://usalight.com/5-inch-air-tight-ic-line-voltage-new-construction-recessed-housing.html

USA light has free shipping on all items over 100.00. This is the only place in my opinion to buy recessed lights. Much, much cheaper than using Halo lights and just as good of quality of not better. These are nice lights. Good luck. Browse their website and let me know if you like it as much as I do.


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## acerunner

13 kits for $140. That is an awesome deal. Although I've never heard of the brand, Rex Lighting Co.


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## ryan5068

They are actually really nice quality cans and the the trims are exceptionally nice. I am not kidding they are a great value. I also like where the wires connect they have the push connectors so you do not even need wire nuts. If I were you I would totally get these and don't waste your money on Halo. I've had Halo too and I like these just as well if not better. The trims really fit nice too. Plus these are IC rated. I can take some pictures of what they really look like and post them for you. I think you'll be impressed.


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## nap

ryan5068 said:


> USA light has free shipping on all items over 100.00. This is the only place in my opinion to buy recessed lights. Much, much cheaper than using Halo lights and just as good of quality of not better. These are nice lights. Good luck. Browse their website and let me know if you like it as much as I do.


If you didn't have so many posts and an actual project (pics and all), I would think you were a salesman for that company. Maybe they should consider hiring you:laughing:

While never using that particular brand, I have to say I am not overly impressed by any can lights. They are all (including Halo, Juno, any well known name brand) made as light (read: cheaply) as they can be made. If these are decent lights, they are definitely a very good value.


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## acerunner

i already bought my halo cans. Are the trims interchangeable with this brand?


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## ryan5068

I would doubt it because the socket actually hangs down from the top of the can and snaps into the metal trim. I know I do sound like a salesman but I am really excited about them due to the quality and the great deal they are. I would try and take back the Halo's if possible if I were you.


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## ryan5068

acerunner said:


> i already bought my halo cans. Are the trims interchangeable with this brand?


Probably not see post below


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## BPC

*Quality of USA Lighting Products*

I thought about returning the Halo cans and trim rings I bought at Home Depot and buying the ones mentioned from USA Light. Does anyone else know about the quality of these products?


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## ryan5068

I just bought 18 more of these lights for a remodel. I would certainly take the Halos back. If you'd like I will send you a picture of what the cans and the trims look like. Also they ship for free anything over 100.00. Pretty sweet deal.


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## bobelectric

nap said:


> the height of the ceiling can make a lot of difference in how it all looks and works. I didn't see that mentioned.
> 
> 
> You can also go to manufacturers websites and obtain photometric data. That is basically a layout that shows how the light is dispersed and the light level at any given point. It helps in determining how many lights you will need.


 Learn to read before responding.I don't recall there is a prize for the first suggestion to post.


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## ryan5068

Thanks Bob! It is people like you that make me despise websites like this. Take a hike!


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## BPC

That would be great. Please send me some pictures. They looked really good on the website. I can't figure out why there is so much difference in price between the Halo and USA trims. I can't imagine that the "Made in China" Halo trims are that much better. Thanks. Brian


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