# Strong ammonia smell with Glidden 2in1



## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Welcome Misswoosie, Ammonia is not an uncommon smell with paint. While ammonia can be toxic, I don't believe it is considered a VOC by government. Low or zero VOC doesn't mean non-toxic. "Green" paints are still very poisonous, they just don't emit certain supposed polluting organic compounds their ancestors did. Organic compounds, by definition, contain carbon. Hydrocarbons are the "villian". Ammonia doesn't contain carbon. If you contact Glidden, they could probably answer your question better. 
Joe


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

I've never used Glidden top coats. The only thing I get from box stores are primers. Many of them have the strong ammonia smell because the ammonia helps adhesion by cutting into the surface.
There are much better finish coats at a real paint store. Many good choices. 
And might be better in the future to use a real primer, then a real paint' 2 products that do each function best.


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks. 
Actually it does say that when tinted it contains etyhlene glycol (antifreeze) which I believe is an organic compound, although obviously this isn't responsible for the strong odor.
I've never noticed such a strong,offensive smell of ammonia with any paint before, either here or in the UK. Oil based paint smell is much preferable to the overpowering ammonia smell from this paint.
I guess the culprit ingredient is peroxidisulfuric (disulphuric) acid.

I have contacted Glidden.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

At the moment all paints except a few lines at Benj Moore use glycol based tints. 
And those paints are a new generation and are excellent.


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> I've never used Glidden top coats. The only thing I get from box stores are primers. Many of them have the strong ammonia smell because the ammonia helps adhesion by cutting into the surface.
> There are much better finish coats at a real paint store. Many good choices.
> And might be better in the future to use a real primer, then a real paint' 2 products that do each function best.


*"It's better to come here with questions before you screw up than to come here after and ask how to fix them."- JS* -

ah ah-agree.
I have only ever used alkyd/oil based paint on exterior doors and windows before, so this was a first for me. In the past have used 2 in 1 paints on interior walls and agree that 2 coats were always needed, which is what I expected really.
Also-it claims to be semi-gloss, but looks VERY high gloss to me.
It wouldn't seem to "stick" and was impossible to apply without brush strokes showing, no matter what size/quality brush I used or how much paint I put on the brush. I tried not overspreading/brushing and then the opposite.
Can I apply an alkyd paint over the top of this acrylic paint, after I sand down the mess I'm left with?
I understand that there are more expensive/better quality paints out there, but have used valspar paints before-the high definition, for interior walls and had good results.
This was $16 for a quart. How much would a similar paint in SW or BM paint cost? We have an ACE harware right beside us.


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> At the moment all paints except a few lines at Benj Moore use glycol based tints.
> And those paints are a new generation and are excellent.


Is this the natura range?
On the BM site when I search for stores it's not bringing up any ACE harware stores at all, so I can't see if it's stocked.

So annoyed-my parents are arriving from England today and instead of a nice new red front door they have an eyesore!


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

What's likely occurring is a chemical interaction between your existing door paint/coating - and your new paint/coating.

Ammonia's harm comes from it's fumes, not it's liquid form - and when the liquidized ammonia is exposed to air it evaporates . . . ammonia fumes rust metal and interact with tannins in wood to deepen the color of a stain that's applied later (so it's used often in woodworking - especially older applications)

If your door at some point was fumed with ammonia or ammonia was applied heavily (like for cleaning purposes) it's likely soaked into the poors and is being released via chemical interaction.

So if I were you I'd:
use paint remover to strip the paint.
Scrub the door with VINEGAR (not hydrochloric acid like i first typed in - oops!)
then soap and water
let dry - start over.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

Snav said:


> *Scrub the door with a hydochloric acid*


Is this right


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

*Ammonia smell in low VOC paints*

As these products no longer contain solvents or preservatives, ammonia is a drying agent, not a volatile organic compound. Generally this odor dissipates quickly when the product dries. It does not initiate a reaction, and subjecting yourself to a caustic acid is unnecessary. 

The Brilliance product sold in Wal Mart is not an economy-grade product, although I realize that some here infer that anything sold in a large retail outlet is sub standard.


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

Get a quality paint in a color other than red (notoriously bad coverage), and everything will fall into place for you.


(I am amazed at how frequently people fall into the 'short-cut' marketing trap. 'Paint and primer in one', 'one coat coverage', 'pink until it's dry ceiling paint' and more often than not these gimmicks simply adds a layer of complexity to a straight forward project.)


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jschaben said:


> Is this right


I hope not:laughing:


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

:laughing: I meant to say vinegar! :laughing:

Not muriatic acid - that won't help. :laughing:

Oh heavens - so sorry! Don't do that.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

Snav said:


> :laughing: I meant to say vinegar! :laughing:
> 
> Not muriatic acid - that won't help. :laughing:
> 
> Oh heavens - so sorry! Don't do that.


acetic acid sounds soooo much better:thumbsup:


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

misswoosie said:


> Is this the natura range?
> On the BM site when I search for stores it's not bringing up any ACE harware stores at all, so I can't see if it's stocked.
> 
> So annoyed-my parents are arriving from England today and instead of a nice new red front door they have an eyesore!


Natura is one, I think the Aura line both interior and exterior is outstanding- but has a learning curve.
Also there is the Ben line- a mid priced grade- still nice and Regal Select- one small step below Aura in quality.
Aura Rocks red BTW- a hard color to get coverage in in most paints- Aura will almost always get it in 2 .

Qts of Aura retail for 21.99 at my stores


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I think Aura would be your best bet, even at $25.00-30 per quart. Labor is always your biggest cost. The coverage would be superior, so with the base of red you have now, you'll definitely nail it with two coats. Buy a cheap paint that requires a third coat and the "savings" is shot to he!!. Don't be "penny wise and pound foolish." Ring a bell? Good Luck with it. Joe
BTW, my Ace carries BM, but they don't, and can't, carry the top and bottom lines of Moore, which means you won't get Aura and you won't get Super Spec or below. If you have trouble finding it, call their hotline and ask, sometimes you get different results that way.


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## perrytradesman (Oct 25, 2011)

*why paint smells/why won't it perform like i want??*

Ammonia is part of any latex paint and acts like a dryer but is more towards a defoamer no bubbles cuz things melt- OK? if it is that bad it aint low VOC and latex paint is really not self leveling by nature but certain brands like B-M or pratt lampert do some what flow out better you can always add FLOTROL which is a flowing agent in all latex paints and contains chicken fat lol no joke and it is not surprising that 3 coats of white do not cover red however i rarely use glidden except for there speedwall matte finish and only on ceilings hope i helped you out ok


misswoosie said:


> Made the mistake of buying some Glidden 2n1 brilliance exterior paint-semi gloss.
> I say mistake because I don't think I have ever used such an awful paint. Was painting a white front door red. Already on 3 rd coat and still don't have a consistent color or finish.
> I am not a professional, but have done a fair amount of painting in my time.
> It does not self level at all and dries far too quickly.
> ...


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Perry, welcome to the forum. Punctuation, please, at least the period. OK?


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

Will22 said:


> As these products no longer contain solvents or preservatives, ammonia is a drying agent, not a volatile organic compound. Generally this odor dissipates quickly when the product dries. It does not initiate a reaction, and subjecting yourself to a caustic acid is unnecessary.
> 
> The Brilliance product sold in Wal Mart is not an economy-grade product, although I realize that some here infer that anything sold in a large retail outlet is sub standard.


I agree- or if it is it's not an economy price.
Ammoinia CAN and did initiate a reaction-my eyes were sore and watering, and this was outside.The fumes were coming from the paint tin which I was holding and yes it did dissipate when it dried-which was the only thing it was good at doing.I am wondering if it had too much ammonia in it.They say it is a respiratory irritant on the tin, but the US being what it is you're never sure how irritant it is, or maybe,just maybe might be in some people. Similar to the labels that say "may contain nuts". Just covering their backs.
I understand it's not a VOC.

This information is from the NY department of Health
*What are the immediate health effects of ammonia exposure?*

Inhalation: Ammonia is irritating and corrosive. Exposure to high concentrations of ammonia in air causes immediate burning of the nose, throat and respiratory tract. This can cause bronchiolar and alveolar edema, and airway destruction resulting in respiratory distress or failure. Inhalation of lower concentrations can cause coughing, and nose and throat irritation. Ammonia's odor provides adequate early warning of its presence, but ammonia also causes olfactory fatigue or adaptation, reducing awareness of one's prolonged exposure at low concentrations.
Children exposed to the same concentrations of ammonia vapor as adults may receive a larger dose because they have greater lung surface area-to-body weight ratios and increased minute volumes-to-weight ratios. In addition, they may be exposed to higher concentrations than adults in the same location because of their shorter height and the higher concentrations of ammonia vapor initially found near the ground.
Skin or eye contact: Exposure to low concentrations of ammonia in air or solution may produce rapid skin or eye irritation. Higher concentrations of ammonia may cause severe injury and burns. Contact with concentrated ammonia solutions such as industrial cleaners may cause corrosive injury including skin burns, permanent eye damage or blindness. The full extent of eye injury may not be apparent for up to a week after the exposure. Contact with liquefied ammonia can also cause frostbite injury.
Ingestion: Exposure to high concentrations of ammonia from swallowing ammonia solution results in corrosive damage to the mouth, throat and stomach. Ingestion of ammonia does not normally result in systemic poisoning.

Windows- you're saying we can't have red front doors? Funny-I've painted doors red before with alkyd based paint before and never had problems.As I said before I didn't expect it to cover in 1 coat, but after 3 coats
*3 coats of white do not cover red - *it was the other way around.
This paint is useless, almost as useless as the reply I got from Glidden.

_We are always grateful to hear feedback, positive or negative on our products, and are sorry to learn you did not have a positive experience._
_We manufacture a variety of bases, all of which are intended for certain ranges of colors. For example, medium bases are meant for mid-tone types of colors while accent bases are meant for darker or brighter colors. _
_Dramatic color changes or certain accent colors will require multiple coats, this is due to the nature of the accent base in which the deep or brighter _
_colors are tinted. In contrast to the lighter bases, the accent bases typically used for these colors contain no titanium or toning (the compounds that help paint have hide) so they are loaded with colorant. The tints used for these colors are very sheer and therefore in combination with the base, they do not offer much hide. _

_When applying reds, it is best to work in small areas such as 20" x 20" or _
_smaller, load the roller and apply in a "V" across the area, random rolling to fill in ( jagged edges, not a perfect square) . Next, load the roller again _
_and repeat application in the same size area directly beneath the first one. You basically work down the wall forming a column and when doing the final area of the column, take your now empty roller and do a gentle ceiling to floor sweep to blend in the one direction only, top to bottom. Typically for a 20" wide column you will do 2, possibly 3 such sweeps. This application will leave a uniform finish by allowing the proper amount of paint to be applied and eliminating the up and down rolling method. You may want to "lightly" sand down theridges and bumps to smooth out before applying this final coat._

_The Glidden® Brilliance Collection™ 2N1™ Paint + Primer is a 100% acrylic paint. Most premium interior paints are made using this type of latex, which requires the addition of ammonia as an ingredient in the paint. The ammonia is fast evaporating and with proper ventilation does not linger, however, in an enclosed area, *the odor can certainly be uncomfortable. *Add box fans to help circulate the air better._

_The voice of our customer is the key to our success, and I hope I have addressed your concerns. If you should need further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me, or phone into our Customer Service line at 800-454-3336, Monday through Friday, 8:00 AM until 6:00 PM EST. _

I them it was an EXTERNAL DOOR I was painting, so nothing wrong with the ventilation, and I would have had trouble painting an area any bigger than 20x 20 at a time as it's a panelled door.:confused1:

So they are admitting that their "2 in 1" paint with an accent base produces crap coverage- so how/why do they market/sell it as a 2 in 1 paint?

I may take the tin to the health department and ask them what they think of the ammonia smell and revert to an alkyd paint for the front door.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Hiya misswoosie...

I gotta jump into this conversation - ammonia is a common component of acrylic products (primers and finish) and although it dries relatively fast, it's not a drying nor etching agent when added to paint - nor is it a defoamer. It's primary purpose in acrylic paints is to act as a surfactant (soap*) that allows the dry components of paint (pigments) to mix freely, without clumping, into the wet components of paint (vehicle). All water borne products contain surfactants for this very purpose - those water-borne products that are high in acrylic content usually employ ammonia. 

The glycols you mentioned come from the universal colorants used to tint your products...Universal colorants have no resins and the glycol (plus water) act as both evaporative solvent and vehicle for tinting colors. 

Also, just as an aside...and no disrespect meant to other responders here, but Floetrol does NOT contain chicken fat...or any type of animal fat. Floetrol, made by the Flood Company, is a proprietary blend of water (solvent), glycol and surfactants and is generally added to latex paints as a flow and leveling agent. 

I hope this info is more helpful than confusing...good luck on your projects.

Ric


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

ric knows paint said:


> Hiya misswoosie...
> 
> I gotta jump into this conversation - ammonia is a common component of acrylic products (primers and finish) and although it dries relatively fast, it's not a drying nor etching agent when added to paint - nor is it a defoamer. It's primary purpose in acrylic paints is to act as a surfactant (soap*) that allows the dry components of paint (pigments) to mix freely, without clumping, into the wet components of paint (vehicle). All water borne products contain surfactants for this very purpose - those water-borne products that are high in acrylic content usually employ ammonia.
> 
> ...


Hi Ric - glad to see over here also.. Thanks for the input.:thumbsup:


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey John

Thanks for the welcome...I see a few names I recognize from HCOA.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

ric knows paint said:


> Hiya misswoosie...
> 
> I gotta jump into this conversation - ammonia is a common component of acrylic products (primers and finish) and although it dries relatively fast, it's not a drying nor etching agent when added to paint - nor is it a defoamer. It's primary purpose in acrylic paints is to act as a surfactant (soap*) that allows the dry components of paint (pigments) to mix freely, without clumping, into the wet components of paint (vehicle). All water borne products contain surfactants for this very purpose - those water-borne products that are high in acrylic content usually employ ammonia.
> 
> ...


 
I am glad YOU cleared that up. I almost spit on my coffee when I read that one:laughing: Just imagine trying to get fat laden paint to stick. Almost as good as the paint and primer in one:whistling2:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

ric knows paint said:


> Hey John
> 
> Thanks for the welcome...I see a few names I recognize from HCOA.


 
*Hans Christian Owners Association* :huh:


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

chrisn said:


> I am glad YOU cleared that up. I almost spit on my coffee when I read that one:laughing: Just imagine trying to get fat laden paint to stick. Almost as good as the paint and primer in one:whistling2:


Do you own a cat?


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## misswoosie (Oct 24, 2011)

I found this article from fine home building.
Might be useful for those here who aren't pro's (this is the DIY chatroom).
I note he says expect to pay $20-$50 per GALLON for exterior trim paint.
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/PDF/Free/021198063.pdf


Anyone used XIM Latex X-Tender?


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

misswoosie said:


> I found this article from fine home building.
> Might be useful for those here who aren't pro's (this is the DIY chatroom).
> I note he says expect to pay $20-$50 per GALLON for exterior trim paint.
> http://www.finehomebuilding.com/PDF/Free/021198063.pdf
> ...


Is that the stuff S-W sells? If so I bought some on the recommendation of the sales guy there but haven't used it yet. Still got a gallon of floetrol.
Course, I'm starting to take ALL recommendations with a grain of salt. Dropped $25 on a couple of Purdy brushes, Immediately went back to the Wally World ones.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

misswoosie said:


> Do you own a cat?


He used to, but the dog ate it.

DM


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

misswoosie said:


> Windows- you're saying we can't have red front doors? Funny-I've painted doors red before with alkyd based paint before and never had problems.As I said before I didn't expect it to cover in 1 coat, but after 3 coats
> *3 coats of white do not cover red - *it was the other way around.


I have routinely had troubles finding reds that cover well. I can remember doing 9 coats (honestly) of red on a feature wall once before giving up and declaring it good enough. I now try to avoid them if at all possible and advise others to do the same. I admit I have never tried with an alkyd though - it could be that the pigments are more effective in an alkyd resin. White and similar shades can be tricky too - those with the greatest amount of titanium dioxide tend to cover the best, but they are also more expensive.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

misswoosie said:


> Do you own a cat?


Right this moment, no.

Why?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

DangerMouse said:


> He used to, but the dog ate it.
> 
> DM


and they used to be good buddies


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