# Caulking all Joints



## DianaKaye (Oct 15, 2017)

A friend of mine built a geo-thermal home a few years ago. She said during construction, she caulked just about everything - where two boards intersected on the outside walls, etc. She also has a CRV to obtain fresh air from the outside as her house was too airtight. 
My house is already built, but was wondering if this would help in the area in the area between the basement (not climate controlled) and my first floor. I have a drop ceiling in the basement. Any thoughts?


----------



## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Is there a problem that needs to be fixed or are you looking to make some improvement?


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

A newer house should have all holes plugged between floors, It's part of fire stopping and it is always a good idea to keep an eye on the caulking on the outside. 
But if you find no caulking under the windows. It has been left out for a reason.


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi Diana, I had to chuckle, the abbreviation is ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator). My wife drives a CRV by Honda. But close enough I got the message. 
Your friend did an excellent job and installing a ventilation system is good as the fresh air is necessary and with a system you know where it is coming in. A normal leaky house needs the same amount of air but it filters its way in through every tiny crack and deposits the dust and pollen inside the walls or insulation as it goes.

So, to get to your point, yes it is good to go after any leaks you can find and seal them up. Doubtful you will get too tight and need a ventilation system but get all you can and we can deal with an extra good job later if needed. I'll attach a link on air sealing, it will show you many places to look.

PS, air sealing is considered one of the most affordable improvements with one of the biggest payback opportunities.
https://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/bldrs_lenders_raters/downloads/TBC_Guide_062507.pdf

Bud


----------



## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

I was baffled by that CRV thing too.


----------



## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Up North here, we typically do what your friend did on every house we build. We use a product called *acoustaseal* which is a terribly messy stuff that comes in a tube like silicone, is black as midnight, and sticks to everything. 

Before Poly is attached, (we place it on the interior side of the exterior walls), all the bottom and top plate seams, all jack/king stud seams, and sill cripple seams are caulked to stop infiltration. The same stuff is used around electrical boxes and recessed light cans.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jlhaslip said:


> Up North here, we typically do what your friend did on every house we build. We use a product called *acoustaseal* which is a terribly messy stuff that comes in a tube like silicone, is black as midnight, and sticks to everything.
> 
> Before Poly is attached, (we place it on the interior side of the exterior walls), all the bottom and top plate seams, all jack/king stud seams, and sill cripple seams are caulked to stop infiltration. The same stuff is used around electrical boxes and recessed light cans.


 Just reading that I felt like I had to clean my hands.
I think they use Quad or something like that down there.


----------



## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Nealtw said:


> Just reading that I felt like I had to clean my hands.
> I think they use Quad or something like that down there.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

And your shirt, and your boots.... :devil3:


----------



## DianaKaye (Oct 15, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Is there a problem that needs to be fixed or are you looking to make some improvement?


We've been here 4 months now. When I walk into the kitchen, the temperature feels like 10 degrees colder. We're still fixing up things to improve the air leakage issue. For example, we put weather stripping on the basement door (basement door is in kitchen) and that's done a fantastic job - before you could feel the cold air coming in from the basement. 

Just don't want to miss out on any good ideas when the weather warms up. Definitely want to get things done before next winter. Thanks!


----------



## DianaKaye (Oct 15, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> Hi Diana, I had to chuckle, the abbreviation is ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator). My wife drives a CRV by Honda. But close enough I got the message.
> Your friend did an excellent job and installing a ventilation system is good as the fresh air is necessary and with a system you know where it is coming in. A normal leaky house needs the same amount of air but it filters its way in through every tiny crack and deposits the dust and pollen inside the walls or insulation as it goes.
> 
> So, to get to your point, yes it is good to go after any leaks you can find and seal them up. Doubtful you will get too tight and need a ventilation system but get all you can and we can deal with an extra good job later if needed. I'll attach a link on air sealing, it will show you many places to look.
> ...


Now I'm laughing (and thanks)! I used to drive a CVCC (Compound Vortex Combustion Chamber (8 intake and 4 exhaust). Thanks for bringing back some great memories and also the link!


----------



## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Ok, so you blocked the cold air coming from the cellar to the kitchen. Why is it cold down there? Are there windows? Where is the boiler or furnace? What type of heating is it, steam, hot water or forced air?


----------



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Diana, since we are in somewhat of a temperate zone (North Georgia), many of the northern winterization methods would not reap good benefits here. I think what you are doing......the obvious.....will give you good returns. Stop the cold air. In your kitchen, you probably have a gaggle of windows. Poor insulation at best, so expect some cold air from them.

Check from around the windows to see if there may be air infiltration on the edges. If so, it is pretty simple to remove the trim molding and inject OSI Quad Foam sealant then replace the trim. You can do the same thing for doors. Many older (and newer) homes have either non existent or poor insulation in those places. Common theory was to pack fiberglas insulation in there. Well, fiberglas loses its insulation ability when compressed, so their theory was not good.


----------



## DianaKaye (Oct 15, 2017)

offrs review said:


> While I'm more a fan of sealing up a home for efficiency (and let's face it, bugs and critters too), I hear that you want the place to breathe, lest you turn it into a sealed air trap. Certainly, you could always open some windows, but what is the general thinking about this? Seal it up or create some breathing room. This was a debate around tiny houses, so it's possible that's relevant only to those. Just curious how it ports over to traditional stick-built, etc.


I really don't have any information on that. I don't think my house is sealed very well though and just wondering where I should start. I have so many projects on my plate though. I'm going to wait until warmer weather before I start exploring more, sealing, etc. Just wish I knew what was originally done and not done. Good luck with your question!


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I don't know much about it but don't the super tight homes have an air exchanger system?


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

@offrs, the bad part about air leakage, beyond energy costs, is the uncontrolled air flow through many areas of the home. When you seal up most of the holes and provide a designated exchange of air you can control where it comes in and in some cases recover some of the energy that goes out with the old. But, those tight homes you read about are mostly new construction. Air sealing existing homes does not allow for some of the necessary sealing to get to "too tight". My advice is always, seal everything you can and then evaluate the results. At worst that evaluation could require a depressurization test to estimate the leakage but there are some real world symptoms of being too tight, like condensation on your windows during cold weather. Not perfect but a good indicator when conditions are right.

@Diana, all homes lead a significant amount of air. A home sealed up to where it takes 5 hours for natural leakage to exchange all of the inside air is way too tight and needs added ventilation. Most average existing homes will test in the 2 to 3 hour range for a full exchange. So seal away as best you can.
https://energy.gov/energysaver/weatherize/air-sealing-your-home

@ Mark, the initial source of fresh air is often just a bath fan on a timer set to run at some on/off interval, say 50/50. As fresh air needs increase the value of that warm air being exhausted justifies a controlled recovery device which captures some of that heat as the exhaust air goes out. They can also capture moisture appropriate for some climates.

Bud


----------



## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

jlhaslip said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> And your shirt, and your boots.... :devil3:


I have some vapour barrier to complete in the basement storage room. I'm not looking forward to working with that stuff again.


----------



## aregard (Apr 22, 2018)

What about air recovery/refresh in an old house that I've sealed against noise? My DH is worried that the bedroom is going to get stuffy, as we have sealed the (old, single pane) windows with acrylic sheets to reduce noise. New windows were staggeringly expensive, and we're in a very temperate area, so weathersealing isn't the issue. Sound is. The acrylic works great, but now that we've earthquake retrofitted and insulated the basement, he's concerned that we might not get fresh air into the room. The ERV looks interesting, but also (expensive?) overkill for our needs. I'm thinking something like a bathroom fan installed in reverse, so it blows air in from the cool side of the house, rather than blowing air out. Anybody tried that?


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

You say an old house so I suspect you will have no issues with air exchange. Even a brand new rather tight house is intended to have a complete air exchange every 3 hours. Older homes, pre 1980, would be every 2 hours and sometimes faster. The methods used to get an extremely tight home where an ERV is necessary effectively can't be done to existing homes. If you need to confirm this contact an energy auditor (I'm retired) and have them run a blower door test and calculate your air change rate. 

There is a symptom that indicates a house is on the tight side, excess condensation on windows in winter. Mild climate may not show up.

But I suspect the house is just fine.

Combustion air for a naturally drafted furnace might be a bigger issue.

Bud


----------



## aregard (Apr 22, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> You say an old house so I suspect you will have no issues with air exchange. Even a brand new rather tight house is intended to have a complete air exchange every 3 hours. Older homes, pre 1980, would be every 2 hours and sometimes faster. The methods used to get an extremely tight home where an ERV is necessary effectively can't be done to existing homes. If you need to confirm this contact an energy auditor (I'm retired) and have them run a blower door test and calculate your air change rate.
> 
> There is a symptom that indicates a house is on the tight side, excess condensation on windows in winter. Mild climate may not show up.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment, Bud. The house is 100 years old, so I'm thinking along the same lines as you -- there's no way to make it that tight! But, we do have condensation on the windows in winter. I just don't know if it's "excess" or not. I'm speaking of the bedroom windows -- condensation from respiration of sleepers. Nowhere else. (So I'd guess that's "not excess".)


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

If you close the curtains, as people often do in bedrooms at night, it isolated the glass from the heat and results in condensation.

Pick up a combination temp and humidity gauge, or two separate units, and take some readings. You need both temp and RH at each reading at the same time. When a house is too tight the RH goes way up even in the winter, thus the condensation I mentioned. I'll add a RH calculator so you can get used to comparing those readings by using their dew point.

http://andrew.rsmas.miami.edu/bmcnoldy/Humidity.html

Bud


----------

