# Is being shocked in a properly bonded pool truly impossible or just improbable?



## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

It is essentially impossible to get shocked in a properly bonded pool, assuming the source of electricity is outside the equipotential bonding grid. That's what the equipotential grid is for. It creates a zone of safety that is completely protected from outside electrical conditions. If there is a source of electricity within the pool area, all bets are off. The source of electricity could be something faulty and improperly bonded in the pool system itself (like the pump or light), or it could be something much simpler: a "battery" accidentally created by having two different types of metal in the pool water at the same time. This is especially likely in a salt pool, where the water is highly conductive due to the dissolved salt. If you touch two dissimilar metals (like copper and stainless, or bronze and aluminum) at the same time while they are both in the water, you may feel a tiny tingle due to the electrolytic cell potential they generate. Salt-water boaters are familiar with this, from touching bronze and aluminum parts at the same time.

You mentioned you were having a problem with the ladder becoming stuck on the mounting anchors after changing to a salt pool. This sounds like an electrolytic corrosion problem, and may indicate that an accidental electrolytic cell exists that could be electrifying the ladder slightly. What is the ladder made out of, and what other metals are in contact with the water and also bonded?

Another issue though: you say the ladder anchors are now plastic. How is the ladder actually connected to the bonding grid?


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Yes you can get a shock from or in a pool that is bonded.
If there is a current path thru the pool to ground.
If the current is not enough to blow a fuse/breaker
then it will continue.
Remember it doesnt take much current to hurt people
or paralise them only 100ma.
And this is a L O N G way from blowing a fuse.
Now even if there is a gfci,
and there is a current flowing at less then the trip point,lets say 20ma, 
then the current will continue
Remember most people dont like any tingles,
No matter how small.
So YES you can get shocked from a bonded pool.

If the current is coming from electrolytic action between two
different metals, then you could try bonding them together.
Or changing one of the metals.


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

dmxtothemax said:


> Yes you can get a shock from or in a pool that is bonded.
> If there is a current path thru the pool to ground.


This is sort of true, but there is no way for a current path through the pool to exist if all the electrical equipment is properly bonded. If a current path through the pool exists, then there MUST be something improper about the bonding!



> If the current is coming from electrolytic action between two
> different metals, then you could try bonding them together.
> Or changing one of the metals.


They are ALREADY required to be bonded together. All metal things in the pool area must be bonded. If they aren't, then the pool is not properly bonded. This is why I asked about the plastic mounting for the ladder. My guess is that the ladder has no connection to the bonding grid, and there's some different metal in the water that people can touch at the same time.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

I think the key point here is "party".....how do we know they didn't have something touching the water? Maybe a couple of colored lights?

Basically....if you drop a cord in water.....as people enter the water....the 'could' feel something....it won't be much....to get a real shock they would need to actually grap one of the electrical cord...

I would suspect that even with everything properly grounded...the paint on the pool acts as an insulator which would make it possible to have a voltage potential between the water and ground.

On a side note....if a person is in the pool and not touching anything....just floating in the water....you could drop a power line in the water and they would not be hurt.....that is until they try to climb out....


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> On a side note....if a person is in the pool and not touching anything....just floating in the water....you could drop a power line in the water and they would not be hurt.....that is until they try to climb out....


This is absolutely not true. Water is not a very good conductor - people are as good or better. If there is current flowing through the water from a submerged conductor, any person in the water will carry some of that current. Whether there is enough current through the person to be dangerous depends on the current density in the water, in units of amps per square unit of area. The closer a person is to the source of the current, the higher the current density and the greater the shock.

Swimming in an electric field is especially dangerous because it can kill at much lower currents through the person than would be required to kill outside of water. It just takes enough to interfere with your muscle control a little bit, and then you can't swim. This is "electric shock drowning" and it's a serious problem around boat docks at marinas:

http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2007/07/electric-shock-drowning/

This problem is greatly reduced in salt water, because the water is so much more conductive than a swimmer's body that the water itself acts like a three-dimensional equipotential bonding grid (Faraday cage), shunting the current around the swimmer. Anecdotal evidence suggests that electric shock drowning may not even be possible in salt water, although touching an electrified surface in salt water is still likely fatal. However, a salt-chlorinated pool is nowhere near as salty or conductive as ocean water so this is no help in a pool.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Is the water bonded?
http://waterbonder.com/

I believe this is included in the most current recommendations for pool bonding depending where you live.

This would seem to be more imperative since you've salt water system and the salt greatly improves conductivity of the water.
I also remember a thread where a neighbor's electrical system was somehow feeding back into the poster's system and causing issues with tingling. Might do a search of this board for that issue which was a long discussion.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

There was an incident where I used to live of someone being shocked in their pool. Turned out it was because copper thieves had cut off the ground wire from a bunch of power poles.


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## NJMarine (Apr 13, 2011)

This can occur in any pool, when ladder, handrails are removed nad reinstalled. If the pockets and euipment is not cleaned and tightened correctly when reinstalled.
I have seen it a number of times. 
If a homeowner calls be about this issue, I check all equipment and than perform a bonding test to make sure evrything is still connected together.


"he cleaned off the metal contacts in the ladder and handrail anchors and threw in a ground rod, hoping that will take care of the problem."

Cleaning all the contacts is the good, but installing a ground rod is the wrong thing to doAs I sted above the elctrician should do a bonding test and remove the ground rod..


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## LeighB (Aug 23, 2011)

*Metals*

Within the pool itself there are stainless steel ladder and handrail. Light niche is stainless steel but I think there is some brass on it too. I know my children used to like to throw pennies into the pool and then find them. How much metal needs to be present? They have a Hayward Shark vacuum which has some metal components but probably wasn't in the pool at the time as the kids, but I will check. Since its bewen a year, they may have added some items. There are other metals that are in the ground, sperated by a vinyl liner. I think there is a volleyball net - I will have to ask someone about it. As to the ladders and handrails - There are anchors that go into the ground that ladders and handrails set into. These cups are bonded to the grid using lug nuts (I hope I am using all the correct terms - I am mainly an office person - the field person doesn't type or use computer and is presently snoozing). The cups come in aluminum, bronze or plastic. The plastic ones have metal inside them that rhe lug attaches to.) I have noticed in most of the cases of shocking that I have found while searching, the majority of the people writing do have salt systems. You cannot get any manufacturer to admit there may be a problem with them. During hot weather, could the currents that are generated to turn the salt to chlorine (I think its some type of current but not sure) actually create enough current to shock people? Is there any definitive way to test if the current is within the pool and whether it is annoying vs. dangerous, if there is any such thing. I have strong recollections of my dad having me stick my tongue out in order to test his 9v batteries. Unpleasant as heck, but hopefully no long term effects.  As to the ground rods - I have seen contradicting information. The main theme seems to be that they aren't supposed to be necessary; however, might it be helpful and/or could it hurt? There are a lot of pools that were installed way before this eqipotential bonding came out. How would you make them safe(r) without digging everything up? On a final note - Is that Waterbonder thing for real or just a gimmick? I would be thrilled if that would solve the problem. Thanks for all the helpful input. I don't know electricity - but if any of you need spell checking, proof reading, recipe conversion, etc. - don't hesitate to ask


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

The Hayward Shark is an electric device. It's pretty well designed to avoid creating a shock hazard, but it's not impossible. Would be good to figure out if it was in the pool at the time.

The salt chlorinator is very unlikely to be the source of the problem, but it's also not impossible. Are there bonded metal pipe sections between the chlorinator and the pool? It's not required but would prevent any problem with the chlorinator from resulting in current flow into the pool.

Has any testing been done to try to identify the problem? To figure out what the source of the problem is, you need to know that the voltage is real, what the voltage is, what points or surfaces the voltage appears between, whether it's AC or DC, and whether it's always present or appears only under certain conditions.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

mpoulton said:


> This is absolutely not true. Water is not a very good conductor - people are as good or better. If there is current flowing through the water from a submerged conductor, any person in the water will carry some of that current. Whether there is enough current through the person to be dangerous depends on the current density in the water, in units of amps per square unit of area. The closer a person is to the source of the current, the higher the current density and the greater the shock.
> 
> Swimming in an electric field is especially dangerous because it can kill at much lower currents through the person than would be required to kill outside of water. It just takes enough to interfere with your muscle control a little bit, and then you can't swim. This is "electric shock drowning" and it's a serious problem around boat docks at marinas:
> 
> ...


Your link is a bit lacking in details...

Bottom line....if the swimmer is not 'touching' anything else in the water, they will NOT be shocked. In order to be shocked, there has to be a voltage across their body. If they are in the water and the water is at a 1000 Vac....their body will also be at that same potential......but as long as they don't touch something...there there is no current flow...and no shock.

In the example you posted...I suspect they touched the boat or their feet touched the lake floor....

Case in point....have you ever seen the guys that work on high voltage lines? They use a helicoptor to drop them right on the line....do they get shocked? No. As they get close, they use a probe to get them and the chopper at the same potential...after that, they climb on.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

I think I would use a voltmeter to test the voltage potential between the water and metal pool parts. Easiest might be between metal on the ladder and the water. Start with AC on the lowest voltage setting and put one lead's probe into the water and the other probe touching the metal part. Might try with pump on, off, and with circuit breaker on and off. An electrician should be able to help with the detective work.


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## NJMarine (Apr 13, 2011)

You could check to see if voltage is present between the water and metal parts. Do a bond test as stated earler.

The Waterbonder is for real. I have installed tthem. It is an easy way to bond the water.

If all the connection for the ladder and handrails are tight and the bond does goes all the way back to the motor, heater etc, than the water is allready bonded by the ladder and handrail, providing they are metal.
If not metal than the water needs to be bonded.
The salt generators change 120 volts to 4-6 volts dc to run the generator. I have worked on many salt water pools and I have never had an issue of the salt generator causing a shock in the pool.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You should get an electrician on the job as soon as possible.

As a pro your company is liable for all injuries from that installation.

Don't risk your retirement and savings to save a few bucks---

Think how this post will look in front of a jury.----Just a word of caution.---Mike---


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Your link is a bit lacking in details...
> 
> Then look up any of the numerous other case reports online.
> 
> ...


That's not a comparable situation at all. They are not immersed in a semi-conductive medium surrounded by the earth.


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## LeighB (Aug 23, 2011)

*I wish it were just a few bucks....*

Due to the economy and weather, the number of pools we put in the past two years is half of the norm. Because the market and inflation has been so bad, our profit per pool is down about 35%. The cost to tear out and repour concrete would be about 6k. While that might seem like a few bucks to you, to me it is the difference between my daughter and son staying in college this year. So, although we are prepared to bite the bullet if necessary, I'm hoping to do some troubleshooting and fact gathering before renting a few jackhammers. Again, l a little less than one year ago the pool was bonded by a licensed electrician, according to the code that our county inspection office requires, and was signed off by the inspector. One year later, the customer reported that children in the pool on a hot summer night (our temperature hit 90 in June and hasn't dropped below since and we have had zero rain) were complaing that they were getting shocked when they touched any/all metal components. If removing the concrete is the only way to determine if there's a broken bond, I guess that's that. However, I don't want to go to that extreme only to find out the bonds are fine, there's just some weird static thing that takes place in salt pools when the werather is extremely hot and dry, or that yes, there was some danger but some well placed copper rods would remove any real dangers. Thanks for the suggestions from others as to exactly what and how to check - those things I can afford to get done


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

mpoulton said:


> That's not a comparable situation at all. They are not immersed in a semi-conductive medium surrounded by the earth.


If you are floating in the water and NOT touching anything....you can not be shocked. Your body will be at the same potential of the water. Period....

In all other cases of people beging shocked in a pool...they touched something...the side of the pool...a ladder...something.

To be shocked...there has to be a difference in potential....if you are in the water...and not touching anything...your body is at what ever the potential of the water is....it's that simple....

If you still disagree...then you need to explain the physics on how the person gets shocked.


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> If you still disagree...then you need to explain the physics on how the person gets shocked.


I already did, and honestly it's fairly basic physics. If you've ever taken a college level E&M class this should be obvious. A question based on this actually showed up on one of my undergrad physics exams. Water is not a very good conductor, so when current flows through it, a voltage gradient occurs between any two points along the current flow vector. If a person is placed in the region of current flow, some of the current will flow through their body instead. You can model this mathematically based either on the current density and ratio of conductivities of the water and the body, or based on the voltage gradient and the conductivity of the body alone.

You are confusing yourself by making two incorrect assumptions: that no current is flowing through the water because it's all at the same potential (this is clearly not true - the body of water is literally grounded, so current definitely flows), and that the water is perfectly conductive so there is no voltage difference between any two points in the water (also not true - water is a fairly poor conductor).

If someone were floating in an electrically insulated insulated bath of liquid mercury, you could drop a hot conductor in there with no problem. But water is not as conductive as mercury, and pools/lakes are not isolated from ground.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

mpoulton said:


> I already did, and honestly it's fairly basic physics. *If you've ever taken a college level E&M class* this should be obvious. A question based on this actually showed up on one of my undergrad physics exams. Water is not a very good conductor, so when current flows through it, a voltage gradient occurs between any two points along the current flow vector. If a person is placed in the region of current flow, some of the current will flow through their body instead. You can model this mathematically based either on the current density and ratio of conductivities of the water and the body, or based on the voltage gradient and the conductivity of the body alone.
> 
> You are confusing yourself by making two incorrect assumptions: that no current is flowing through the water because it's all at the same potential (this is clearly not true - the body of water is literally grounded, so current definitely flows), and that the water is perfectly conductive so there is no voltage difference between any two points in the water (also not true - water is a fairly poor conductor).
> 
> If someone were floating in an electrically insulated insulated bath of liquid mercury, you could drop a hot conductor in there with no problem. But water is not as conductive as mercury, and pools/lakes are not isolated from ground.


Was going for a EE degree...then changed over to CSE....Maxwell equations are not fun.

Anyway....you are correct about the gradiants....but in reality, the person is not going to get shocked...

I'm sure we both agree that the human body is a better conductor than the water that it is in (salt content of the body would be greater than that in a pool).....but not by much....

I agree...that the semi-conductive nature of water would create voltage gradiants along the 'length' of the volume....and a human body in that same length would create a 'bypass' path along the same length.

I think we can assume the following....with voltage being constant....the current capacity of the water is a function of the surface area of contact with the voltage source and volume of water.....

Now....lets assume that the swimmer is in a tube surrounded by water. One end of that tube has a high voltage applied to it...the other end grounded. At any given point along that tube, the water will be at x potential as referenced to ground. Assume we have 1000 volts on one end....then in the middle we would have about 500v....more or less....taking into consideration of coupling and the type of measureing device (high impeadance meter).

Now...lets toss in our swimmer....feet towards voltage source....head towards the ground. So, based on your position, he would get shocked because his feet would be close to 1000v and his head 0. Thats assuming that his body is more conductive than the water he is in. In such a narrow configuration (don't know of too many swimming pools shaped like a tube with 1000 volts on one end), yea, it might be possible to shocked.

But here is the real issue....as current enters his feet....and the potential starts to build across the body...the same current/voltage now wants to exit the body at every point along the body....hence, that voltage is now being shunted back into the water.

In a nutshell, the water is basically one big parallel resistor around the body. I guess if you created the above setup...it might be possible to shock a person....but it would take a very unique configuraton. Additionally, as the conductivity of the water goes down, so does the coupling of the voltage source go down.

So....unless the swimmer touches something that is much more conductive than the water he is in.....he is not going to get shocked.

I did some more checking.....and in all the references I found....it appears the person touched something to create a difference in potential.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Very interesting reading, thanks for the debate on electrical energy with regards to a pool of water, but no matter how much you tell me I won't get shocked I sure won't be jumping in......

Mark


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> But here is the real issue....as current enters his feet....and the potential starts to build across the body...the same current/voltage now wants to exit the body at every point along the body....hence, that voltage is now being shunted back into the water.
> 
> In a nutshell, the water is basically one big parallel resistor around the body.


This right here is the failure in your analysis. Yes, the water is a big parallel resistor - but that's irrelevant in a voltage-based calculation. The voltage gradient across the body is the same as the voltage gradient in the water, so current cannot be "shunted back into the water". It would have to flow against the voltage gradient... and there's a little Ohm's law problem with that.

By your logic, I should be able to touch both ends of an electrified heating element and not get shocked, because it's a big parallel resistor and the current that would go through my body would just flow through it instead. Of course that's not true. Go stick your hand in a toaster and see how it works out - you won't keep it in there long enough for it to get hot! The immersed swimmer is exactly the same configuration electrically. He's in parallel with a resistance that has a current flowing through it. Thus, current will also flow through the swimmer.

Which references did you find where swimmers were only shocked after touching things? Certainly there are plenty that involve contact with an electrified object (or a grounded object in electrified water), and it's definitely far worse to touch the electrified object, but it's not necessary. The original incident I posted did not involve touching anything. The narrative by the survivor was pretty clear that she was shocked while not touching anything. The sort of definitive list of incidents is maintained here:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=117494761627517&topic=97

Relevant reports from the "near misses" section:

"As a SCUBA diver, with no wet suit, approached a moored sail boat he felt a tingling sensation. Approaching closer he experienced a moderate electric shock so he backed away. Later examination disclosed damage to a steel dock section at the boat’s stern and the battery charger was found to have a “short circuit”. The condition of the bonding system was not reported."

"After receiving permission from marina two adult women went swimming near their rented houseboat. As they started back to the boat from the swim slide entry point both felt a strong electric shock sensation, and had the presence of mind to swim away from the boat! A relative entered the water and felt the same thing – which disappeared when the boat was disconnected from shore power. Close call was brushed off by staff so no action was taken to locate source of fault current."

"Seven children swimming behind houseboat received electrical shocks (no fatalities). Lights went out on boat and children immediately started screaming. Cause was loss of neutral, a neutral-ground connection on the air conditioning system and a poor grounding connection on the shore cord."

And from the fatality reports:

"A 14 year old boy died from electric shock while swimming near a houseboat. A friend was also shocked and taken to a hospital and released. A man jumped in to help and was rendered unconscious but was unharmed after regaining consciousness. The cause appeared to be inserting a shore cord with a 30A/125V (L5-30) plug (with the grounding pin bent back) into a 50A-125/250V receptacle in such a way so as to energize the neutral, which was connected to the bonding system, thereby energizing the hull."

"A 16 yr old boy was swimming in the marina when he approached a houseboat. He screamed as if in pain and disappeared under the water. He could not be revived after divers recovered his body. A friend in the water also felt a shocking sensation. The cause was a home made shore cord, hard wired to the panel which was passed through a hole in sheet metal siding with no chafe protection."

"Diver found Aug. 5 in shallow water 8 ft. from his dock, drowned. Incorrectly wired dock junction box caused 117 VAC to appear on metal dock components. Rescue diver reported feeling shock sensation 20 ft. from dock!"

"Young man swimming toward stern of a house boat became disabled and drowned, fresh water. Boat had a neutral-ground bond. Home made shore cord “Y” became partly disconnected causing hull to become energized. 17vac measured behind stern-drive."

"A canoe carrying four young boys tipped over a few dozen yards from a dock. As they swam toward the dock they felt a light tingle. Three of the boys diverted away from the dock while the fourth boy continued into the electric field and drowned. Cause was broken insulation on a dock wire hanging in the water."

So, like it or not, this does happen and it is a real hazard.


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## NJMarine (Apr 13, 2011)

The bonding test can be done without chopping or cutting an concrete.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

mpoulton....I have no doubt those all happened.....

But....how many of those people had their feet in the mud at the bottom of the lake?

How many got shocked only when they touched the boat or dock?

I think all of them. In all the cases I'm reading above, there was a path to physical earth ground....I think most of them involved shore power....


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Have you gotten an electrician on site yet?


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## LeighB (Aug 23, 2011)

*To NJ Marine and OHMike*

NJMarine - Could you tell me how? Oh Mike - Not yet. The electrician we used retired. His son was supposed to come out, but didn't. My husband is one of those guys that can fix cars, run plumbing, repair appliances, build things, etc. He has good mechanical comprehension. His problem is reading comprehehnsion. So I am trying to gather the information of what and where to test, etc. No offense, but as you can tell, not all electricians are in agreement about these matters, so not confident they would find the problem any quicker. Nobody is using the pool right now and the issue hasn't reappeared either. To mpoulton and ddawg -I think you are just having an academic debate among yourselves, but in case your replies are supposed to be relevant to the original post, they were in water and touching metal objects and possible concrete when they got shocked.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I agree that finding an electrician the is a wizard at trouble shooting might be difficult.

I am only concerned with your liability---not your competence --Just best to cover your butt---

Keep asking your self how will this look in front of a jury?-----Mike----


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Have you tried bonding the metal ladder to the water,
If there is a potential difference between the ladder and the water,
You can try this by wrapping some wire tightly around the ladder
so that it makes good electrical contact ,
and drop the other end into the pool water.
Now see if this removes the shocks from the ladder.
You can also use a digital volt meter to check for potential
differences between the ladder and pool water.

If the problem lies in a small potential difference between the pool and the ladder this bonding should remove it.


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## NJMarine (Apr 13, 2011)

You need an ohm meter and a piece of 12 thhn that will reach all the metal parfts in the pool, such as ladders, handrails and wet niche lights housing
I usually use an analog meter. I calibrate with 1 10 ohn and 1 ohm resistor, but in a pinch you could use a digital meter.
At the motor bond terminal attach one end of the wire at each metal point connect the meter between the meter and the metal section. You should get a reading of 0 resistance.
Check from a railing to the metal around the pool it must read 0 ohms. but you can check to see what is not bonded and what is by this method. Touch the ohm meter probes to 2 different metal parts and see what the resistance is between them. Even the wire mesh in the concrete must be bonded. If it's not 0 you have a problem.​


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## Jerseygirl21 (May 28, 2013)

Actually you most certainly CAN be shocked and I speak from experience where a group of us were shocked and our friend died in front of us because of a malfunction with the underwater lights in an inground pool. What we felt was most definitely more than a tingling, and we were standing in the middle of the shallow end, touching nothing.
I found this site while researching being shocked by pool ladders, as my you g daughter is complaining of being shocked by the ladder at the swim club we belong to...apparently she isn't imagining it.



ddawg16 said:


> Your link is a bit lacking in details...
> 
> Bottom line....if the swimmer is not 'touching' anything else in the water, they will NOT be shocked. In order to be shocked, there has to be a voltage across their body. If they are in the water and the water is at a 1000 Vac....their body will also be at that same potential......but as long as they don't touch something...there there is no current flow...and no shock.
> 
> ...


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Jerseygirl21 said:


> Actually you most certainly CAN be shocked





Of course you can !

If your standing in ANY voltage gradient you can be shocked !
Voltage gradients can exist in water as well as on land.

Electricity travels thru water,
so if you get between the source (pool light)
and it's return point (earthed ladder)
Then you will get shocked.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

2 year old thread?


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

Jerseygirl21 said:


> Actually you most certainly CAN be shocked and I speak from experience where a group of us were shocked and our friend died in front of us because of a malfunction with the underwater lights in an inground pool. What we felt was most definitely more than a tingling, and we were standing in the middle of the shallow end, touching nothing.
> I found this site while researching being shocked by pool ladders, as my you g daughter is complaining of being shocked by the ladder at the swim club we belong to...apparently she isn't imagining it.


Wow. I'm very sorry that happened to you. There have not been very many incidents like that in swimming pools because the safety features usually prevent it even when equipment fails, but there have been enough cases that it is well documented. There have been more incidents at marinas because they lack the safety features of swimming pools. "Electric shock drowning" is a freshwater-only phenomenon, because it only happens when the water is not very conductive compared to the person's body. It may seem backwards, but highly conductive salt water is fairly safe even if there is a lot of current flowing through the water.

If your daughter is noticing any shock at all in the pool, there is a serious problem. The difference between a minor tingle and an incident like the one you were involved in is pretty much just luck and circumstance. I would not ever swim in any water where I noticed any electrical sensation at all.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Jerseygirl21 said:


> Actually you most certainly CAN be shocked and I speak from experience where a group of us were shocked and our friend died in front of us because of a malfunction with the underwater lights in an inground pool. What we felt was most definitely more than a tingling, and we were standing in the middle of the shallow end, touching nothing.
> I found this site while researching being shocked by pool ladders, as my you g daughter is complaining of being shocked by the ladder at the swim club we belong to...apparently she isn't imagining it.


Normally I wouldn't respond to a thread this old, but in the interest of safety I will. First a few questions;


Since this is a public pool, I have a few comments;

1. The local electrical inspector is required to perform an electrical inspection every year. This is called an annual pool inspection and is required by the UCC.

2. Every five years the owner is required to obtain a bonding certification from a licensed electrical contractor.

All this being said, call the local electrical inspector and notify him of your concerns. Then call the board of health.

What part of Joyzee are you from?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

I can't help but wonder if we are getting the whole story. All too often people want to blame one thing when in fact something else was going on.

Case in point....the Toyota stuck accelerator issue.....while it was a real issue...a majority of the cases was more of a case of the wrong foot on the wrong peddle...but it was easier to blame the car.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

MPoultin did a wonderful write up on Electric Shock Drowning (ESD).

The hazards are boats, docks or marinas, and electric Irrigation pumps.

No, you don't have to be standing or touch something. You can be shocked by the difference in potential.

The shock doesn't necessarily kill the person. All it has to due is disrupt their swimming ability enough that they drown.

If anything, ESD has been under reported for many years. Postmortem exams show that the person drowned, not what caused them to drown.


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## philS (Jul 10, 2007)

Watch http://www.mikeholt.com/strayVoltageVideo.php , It doesn't deal with all the issues discussed here but it really helped me understand the root cause of these problems and why grounding alone doesn't solve them. Anybody see any errors in Mike's logic, I'd like to know about it.


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