# Contractor Failed to Get Required Permits--What now?



## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

To make you feel better, I think a large number of home owner renovated their home without permit... doesn't mean this is right... but I think this is reality....


----------



## mikemy6 (Feb 21, 2007)

my contracts denote who will be pulling the permits, The reason I say this is beacause contractors get alot of this I told you or my husband told you. It seems to me you are now experts in codes,there are grandfather rules that may apply and he may totally be right. I would make a small list of any flaws let him finish and pay him. If you are not willing to go to your inspector you may be suspect, sorry but thats how I feel ,I make money off my jobs I dont want to screw anyone and I dont want to it happen to me.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

My first thought. Obviously, he doesn't want to pull a permit, he's tried very hard not to pull a permit....But WHY? 

There must be a reason why....

Either his license is no good anymore, or he stepped on some toes in your town and is not supposed to be doing work there....

I am concerned about the permits not being pulled. In my state, the GC is held liable for pulling the permit, if the home owner does not try to get it. 

I feel that he is liable for the building permit. Plumbers and electricians can pull their own for the job.
If any charges arise from this...he should pay it, especially since he provided incorrect information ...telling you that you did not need a permit.


----------



## House_Amuck (Mar 18, 2007)

As a follow-up, we decided not to hold the 1/3 out as leverage. We paid him what we owe him to this point and only held out what was appropriate until finish of job (there are still a few small things--tiles to be installed, etc.) I want to assume this guy wouldn't want to screw us over, and I certainly don't want to do that to him or anyone else.

That said, we are still mad about the permit issue but feel a bit between a rock and a hard place.

I did check his home improvement licensure and his sub's licensure and they were both up to date. I also checked their state complaint records and nothing there. Also no hits on BBB. 

My feeling is that most people take a "don't ask don't tell" attitude toward what their contractors do. I guess we are the exception in that we just wanted it done "right" and we probably pay a little closer attention to what's being done, and not done, than other people. I guess. 

Re: another issue about him I posted in another thread (he installed an exhaust fan that wasn't ducted to the outside, but to our attic instead)--one of his references I called before hiring him said she also had a fan that "did not require outside venting." Same thing he told us. Which tells me that he is doing his "thing" all over the city and no one is really calling him on it. Not sure why.


----------



## oldgoat (Aug 17, 2005)

I think you need to do some talking with someone down at the permit office. I would think that there is a fair chance that you were suppose to have a permit and I don't believe that a bathroom exhaust fan is suppose to exhaust to the attic. Also if no permit was pulled and therefore no inspection you are also leaving yourself open on a insurance claim, if God forbid, something happens and the insurance company claims that it was because of the work that was done. Also in my state at least when you sell you have forms that you have to fill out that you have to state if work was done with permits or not. If the contractors were suppose to be responsible for the permits then they should pull them. I'm not sure though that in all states that is the case though. I think in some that in the end in some cases the homeowner still is responsible for making sure that the permit is there. I'd be more interested in covering my tail for work that I paid for than the contractor.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

House amuck,

I don't know where you live, but I can virtually guarantee that this job should have been permited.
In my area, we have done the same exact work on bathrooms ('replacements') - and checked and confirmed in each town we did projects like it = permit required.

Even this week we are doing a water damage repair on a multi unit dwelling - inspector said; "Every time a wall is opened up, I want a permit pulled". Granted, that is extreme, but you get my point in regards to the majority of permit requirements...at least in most US areas...


----------



## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

vent to attic definitely not a good idea I believe as you want to reduce moisture inside the attic rather than increase... as a general rule I saw somewhere in this forum...


----------



## mt232 (Sep 25, 2006)

My understanding is that your local building dept works for you and is there to protect you. I'm not a contractor, but as a volunteer firefighter, I have seen first-hand where poor and illegal work has caused fires, and I know we have few fires because our building dept is strict to code. All our permits say "Do not pay your contractor until all inspections are complete" I believe those large fines are for people trying to knowingly get around the laws, if you call them asking for guidance and help, they will help you have your job completed safely.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

mt232 said:


> My understanding is that your local building dept works for you and is there to protect you. I'm not a contractor, but as a volunteer firefighter, I have seen first-hand where poor and illegal work has caused fires, and I know we have few fires because our building dept is strict to code. All our permits say "Do not pay your contractor until all inspections are complete" I believe those large fines are for people trying to knowingly get around the laws, if you call them asking for guidance and help, they will help you have your job completed safely.


This is how I view it...

....If you do good work, there should be no reason to be afraid of having an Inspector check it....


----------



## House_Amuck (Mar 18, 2007)

Mike, I'm not sure what you meant about "you will be suspect." Suspect for doing or not doing what? We'd feel better if we could have had everything inspected and would prefer that the permits had been pulled. We hesitate to report ourselves since we, the homeowners, are now responsible and will be fined accordingly. We would be willing to pay that, even though it's very scary to wonder how much that could be, ($1000? $2000?) but the other consequence is that the government inspectors would need to open up the job in order to inspect it. Basically a demo, inspect, and redo. A horrifying thought. Especially since who would be responsible for the redo would be a contractor that now hates our guts for being a PITA.

Another poster said the building department is here to help us. When we called to inquire what we should do, the person who answered the phone immediately became accusatory and demanded to know our address, which scared us so much we panicked and refused to give it. I had hoped for an understanding ear, since my view of it is that we are very honest people who tried our damndest to do this right--hired a state licensed contractor who is a member of the BBB--asked him if we needed permits, he said at one time "no, it's a repair" and at another time "my contractors inspect their own work." We trusted him, stupidly, and did not pursue this. The woman at the building department though was not sympathetic at all and had a more disinterested "ignorance is no excuse" attitude. I personally think this is counter-productive since if I were this government office, I would want to encourage reporting of unpermitted jobs, however they may come in. 

We live in Maryland.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

H.A.,

If you want to speak to someone who will be able to give you the right answers...call and ask to speak to a building inspector...
However, he too, will want to know the address...

....If you present your self as the 'unknowing victim', so to speak, he shouldn't take things out on you....(I feel that you were not to blame because you looked into it and are obviously looking into it by calling him) Your point of calling is your desire to do what's required by the town - that is good.

Believe it or not, their are some very reasonable inspectors out there who really do help home owners out a great deal, and sympathize with their dilemmas...


----------



## mikemy6 (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks A B, thats what I meant if you dont confront this problem then you may be considered (suspect) instead of an unknowing victim. I dont want to sound like a jerk but I did. Maybe I am!


----------



## House_Amuck (Mar 18, 2007)

Mike,
I didn't think you sounded like a jerk, I was just interested in what you meant. You've got a point, and we hadn't really been looking at it that way (since we aren't dishonest) so it is helpful to get your perspective.

Wouldn't an upfront GC ask the homeowner "where are the permits," before starting, if they had expected the homeowner to get them and he knew they were necessary? The burden is a little more on the GC I think, than on us. (We wouldn't have even had a clear idea what permits to get!) 

I certainly will NEVER make this mistake again and feel like a total dupe. :huh:


----------



## mikemy6 (Feb 21, 2007)

Hi House
Well, I would, If needed, and this might sound wierd, but for my own protection also I bill or pay for this service (permits). Let's see what makes this guy a sch**ck, he sisterd some joists that had been undercut, who's that hurting? Moved the sink,if he moved the drain,water, pretty sure needs permit. Ok the biggie 2 new circuits permit and electrcians #. sounds about 70% Sch**ck. The burden was on the GC now its your turn what will you do 1 nothing let him go on his merry way. 2 get up and get right. Its your house and your phone # and also your call. you sound almost embarrassed please dont. 
I dont feel as you have made a mistake you've just got alot of hard choices to make.

Best of luck 
Mike the jerk


----------



## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

I would call the permit office... I would not even think about it. Get the permits and if the city wants to fine you and not the contractor I would write to your local paper about the situation. Maybe even call some of your local news stations.


----------



## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Fine is one concern, but I think as the owner volunteer to report the case, there wouldn't be a fine, normally, however, I think the main concern is really "ripping off everything and then covering them up again"... which is the real pain and $$ concern....

If it were me, it is also very difficult... as in theory, as it is already done, whether reporting the case now or reporting it the future when necessary... a tough choice...


----------



## TrexConsumer (Mar 13, 2007)

What a nightmare. Calling the news stations is a great idea.:thumbsup:


----------



## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

I really think you should call the permit office and I really think the GC should be responsible for ANY fines and should have to fix ANYTHING that the inspector wants torn out to see behind. 

It would not be fair to you to be punished for the idiot mistakes of the GC.


----------



## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Except the GC will probably refuse to do it...


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

robertcdf said:


> I really think you should call the permit office and I really think the GC should be responsible for ANY fines and should have to fix ANYTHING that the inspector wants torn out to see behind.
> 
> It would not be fair to you to be punished for the idiot mistakes of the GC.


Agreed. I would simply take any fees out of the last payment amount.....


----------

