# Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof



## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

epdm should wrap on to the fasica 3-6 inches, then gutters installed over EPDM/Fasica then drip edge and strip in. Problem solved.


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## Don Smith (Mar 27, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> *Please, provide me information on the best way to install a gutter on an EPDM roof that has a 1:12 pitch, so that Ice will not back up under the EPDM roofing. I live in Connecticut and experience harsh winters. I've seen the "Gutter Trim" on-line (by Firestone and others), but it does not seem like this trim will prevent the ice from getting under the EPDM. The trim looks like it will do a nice job with normal liquid rain, but not expanding / backed up ice damming. If you have used a "Gutter Trim", please let me know how it is working for you. Has anyone tried installing the EPDM by extending it down the fascia board and behind the gutter? What was your result over the winter?*
> 
> *Thank You,*
> *Linda*


 Do you have any pics on how the detail is now


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Photos of current Roof (Torch down)*

I currently have a GAF Rubberoid torch down roof, and no gutter at all. It is 17 years old. I've coated and caulked. It is time to try EPDM.
Thanks for any words-of wisdom offered . Two photos attahced.
Linda


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## Don Smith (Mar 27, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> I currently have a GAF Rubberoid torch down roof, and no gutter at all. It is 17 years old. I've coated and caulked. It is time to try EPDM.
> Thanks for any words-of wisdom offered . Two photos attahced.
> Linda


 If you put EPDM on this roof you are going to have a tie in where the ridge shingles are tear them off and up and over that edge. Tear off all the drip edge off 1/2 insulation screwed down fully adhered EPDM run the rubber over the facia that's getting gutter run a bead of water block caulking flap rubber over the edge term bar the rubber. Install gutter and L metal strip in the metal. Install drip edge all around rest of perimater and strip that in with unrenforced membrane


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Do I have this right?*

So, if I understand this correctly, I should run the main piece of rubber over the fascia and terminate with term bars. Then, on top of that rubber I should 'seam in' another piece of rubber that will wrap around a batten to form a drip edge (or install a gutter trim), so that it drips into the gutter. 

The main piece of rubber running down the fascia will prevent ice back up, and the gutter trim / drip edge will properly direct rain water into the gutter.

Is that the basic idea?

Thanks,
Linda


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Linda135 said:


> So, if I understand this correctly,* I should run the main piece of rubber over the fascia and terminate with term bars. Then, on top of that rubber I should 'seam in' another piece of rubber that will wrap around a batten to form a drip edge (or install a gutter trim), so that it drips into the gutter. *
> 
> The main piece of rubber running down the fascia will prevent ice back up, and the gutter trim / drip edge will properly direct rain water into the gutter.
> 
> ...


I prefer to lap the rubber over onto the fascia, then install a metal roof edge that will extend down slightly into the gutter. The drip edge is then seamed to the rubber. I think maybe we're all saying the same thing, but typically (in my region) either the roof edge or the term bar is used, not both.


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

There is no problem installing a gutter on a flat roof like an EPDM roof. there are a few ways of going about doing it, I prefer a self flashing box style gutter. An example can be seen here: Commercial Box Gutters The key is that the face of the gutter is 1" lower than the back of the gutter. 
Another tip is to have more than one downspout. 

However ice back up is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with the type of roof installed. Proper insulation and/or ventilation will remove hot air or prevent hot air from melting the snow from the bottom side. I do alot of work on residential 2-flats in Chicago. These are usually built in the late 1800's early 1900's. They have 1" of insulation in the ceilings. Air fromt he 2nd floor apartment simply passes right out the roof. When we replace these roofs we often will insulate the ceilings we will then ventilate the roof, this is a cold deck design. However if there are no wall vents, which is also common on about 50% of these two flats, we could convert the roof to a warm deck design and put up some kind of rigid insulation board such as PolyIsocyanurate which will limit the transfer of heat from the interior to the exterior. This is a warm deck design and in this case no ventilation is installed. 

Both will help reduce the ice back up problems you are having.


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## Don Smith (Mar 27, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> *Please, provide me information on the best way to install a gutter on an EPDM roof that has a 1:12 pitch, so that Ice will not back up under the EPDM roofing. I live in Connecticut and experience harsh winters. I've seen the "Gutter Trim" on-line (by Firestone and others), but it does not seem like this trim will prevent the ice from getting under the EPDM. The trim looks like it will do a nice job with normal liquid rain, but not expanding / backed up ice damming. If you have used a "Gutter Trim", please let me know how it is working for you. Has anyone tried installing the EPDM by extending it down the fascia board and behind the gutter? What was your result over the winter?*
> 
> *Thank You,*
> *Linda*


 I might be missing something here but first you have to install a EPDM roof in order to detail a gutter with EPDM. I'm sure the roofer who installs the roof should know this. Because if your going to try a EPDM gutter install to this roof there is going to be a bunch more questions your going to need to ask later


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Grumpy had a good idea as we have done this alot too since we dont have a gutter machine.

The gutter and drip edge is one piece. The flange will nail/screw to the top of the roof and then that is striped in. The face of the gutter has to be atleast 1" smaller then the back side to allow for gutter hangers. This with the combo of having waterstop between the EPDM and fasica you should never see a Ice dam leak.


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

Reply to SeeYou:I prefer to lap the rubber over onto the fascia, then install a metal roof edge that will extend down slightly into the gutter. The drip edge is then seamed to the rubber. I think maybe we're all saying the same thing, but typically (in my region) either the roof edge or the term bar is used, not both. 

Thank you for your reply. I am learning and appreciate any and all information. I am taking it all in. As I'm seeing it, once the EDPM is lapped over the facia, a term bar will secure the end of the EPDM. Then, after the gutter is installed, the drip edge is then seamed to the rubber as a way to secure the drip edge itself. The installation of the drip edge will further secure the EDPM, but its main purpose it to properly direct the water into the gutter. I suppose, with the gutter there it is not likely to have anything lift up the EDPM, but the term bar will secure that edge of the EDPM for sure. It sounds like you've had much success w/o the term bar in this instance. Thank You, Linda


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

*1 inch ISO Board*

in reply to Grumpy - I greatly appreciate your words-of-wisdom on insulation and ventilation. Some contractors wanted to install 1/2" ISO board (the only reason I could come up with was to try to be the lowest bidder), But I'm calling for a 1" board, and now I will have a better reason to insist on using the 1" board .... to help reduce heat transfer and ice damming. A roof vent may also be an option. Thank you! Linda


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

Yes, I will have the torch-down roofing removed down to the plywood, install 1" ISO board, EPDM roofing installed under the shingles (which is also getting torn off to the plywood and re-roofed) and the EPDM will go down all 3 sides' fascias. I think I'm starting to 'get' this. Thank you .. .. thank you all!


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

in reply to 1985gt - Ahhh, I see, the main EPDM piece is adhered to the roof and fascia, then this self-flashing box style gutter is installed and an EPDM seam is installed over the gutter's flashing. This seems like the best, no-fail, no-leak solution yet! Now, where can a normal person like me purchase such a gutter? I have interviewed several roofers, and NONE of them mentioned this type of gutter. You guys are the best!! Anyone interested in a job in Connecticut 06279? Thank you all so very much!! Linda


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> in reply to Grumpy - I greatly appreciate your words-of-wisdom on insulation and ventilation. Some contractors wanted to install 1/2" ISO board (the only reason I could come up with was to try to be the lowest bidder), But I'm calling for a 1" board, and now I will have a better reason to insist on using the 1" board .... to help reduce heat transfer and ice damming. A roof vent may also be an option. Thank you! Linda


1/2 Iso is not any cheaper then 1". Most of the time on areas like this a 1/2 cover board is fine if there is inuslation in the rafters. If your going to use a 1" Iso you might as well go for an 1 1/2 as the cost isnt that much more. You could also have them used tapered insulation at the eve edges to help with water flow. Once the gutter is installed and the cover tape is applied there is a little bit of a bump there. Not a big deal but kind of a nitpicky thing for us. Also as for the EPDM wraping over the fasica there is no need for a term bar as the Gutter and edge metal will be the "term" bar in this case. The term bar is over kill and will make the gutter stick out some.


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

WoW, I really like the tapered insulation board idea - thanks! I suppose the term-bar in addition to the edge metal may be considered over-kill, but if the EPDM wraps down and around the fascia enough it will be below the gutter and not behind it. . ... hmmmm, maybe my fascia board is not wide enough for the term bar to end up below the gutter ... I'll have to go take another look. Thanks for your ideas. I will take all into consderation. This is a very helpful forum!


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

The EPDM shouldnt go past the bottom of the gutter, (eye sore). I forgot a response to your Box gutter/ Drip egde. We shop form all of ours. Any flat roofer should have a sheet metal brake to do this. I could make some and send them to you but I have a feeling you wouldnt like the shipping costs on a 10' item. To get an idea of he gutter were talking about it would be the "boxed gutter flanged" http://www.rutlandguttersupply.com/gutters/Gutters_Box.asp


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Same gutter I posted earlier in the thread.


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Gutter info*

Thank you both very much for the information and links for the gutter. I am definately going to try to get some, if at all sold locally or if I can find some one to fabricate it. Indeed, shipping would be too much. I wish you all lived closer .. I would hire you in a heartbeat. You sound like you really know your stuff. I hope I can find someone who understands flat roofs like you do. Thank you again! Linda


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## Don Smith (Mar 27, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> Thank you both very much for the information and links for the gutter. I am definately going to try to get some, if at all sold locally or if I can find some one to fabricate it. Indeed, shipping would be too much. I wish you all lived closer .. I would hire you in a heartbeat. You sound like you really know your stuff. I hope I can find someone who understands flat roofs like you do. Thank you again! Linda


The EPDM gutter detail is baby shoes I mean if the roofer is going to install a fully adhered tappered roof system. And then he needs to be instructed on how to do a gutter. Really ???. If he gets that far with out screwing it up I think he's good to go...... Just saying


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

You make a valid point, however, I've interviewd a half-dozen contractors and NONE of them considered a tapered iso board, and NONE of them suggested the self-flashing gutter, and only half of them were willing to install the EPDM down the fascia (the other half insisted the 'right' way to do it was to install the epdm up to the edge of the roof and install a metal drip edge there). I've seen where that way is acceptable, but then read where the wind lifted it up, and it was better to have the edpm go down over the fascia. Some guys just did not want to do it the other way. One roofer said that if I didn't want the ice in the gutter to freeze and get under the epdm, then don't install the gutter .... not the solution I was looking for. I hope I hire someone who 'gets it" as well as you!

Any recommendations iin the Connecticut area? Tough since it is only 26 x 22, but I am also re-roofing the shingled area, and building a 10x12 pt deck in the back.

Thx, Linda


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## Don Smith (Mar 27, 2011)

[quote Your doing the right thing ask alot of questions to the contractor. Do your home work. Good luck to you


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

That's the problem. You've interviewed contractors, not roofers. Or maybe shingle roofers, not flat roofers. Or maybe salesmen for roofing companies that don't understand the products they are selling. 

Point being WE do not make these things up as we go along. If we did we wouldn't all be saying the same thing. A professional roofers has likely read a spec book or looked at a detailed drawing or worked under the tutilage of someone who has. 


Have you tried contacting the National Roofing Contractor's Association www.nrca.net or the National Roof group www.rooferdata.com ? A member of the NRCA will likely understand basic details such as a gutter because when they join they get the roofing manual free of charge.

Is a license required in your area to be a roofer? If so don't even think of hiring someone with out it. You may also check into the certifications of the roofing contractor. I truly feel that a professional roofing contractor will have at least some certifications. Certifications don't make you professional, but they don't hurt either.


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## kimboy (Apr 29, 2011)

Yes, I will have the torch-down roofing removed down to the plywood, install 1" ISO board, EPDM roofing installed under the shingles (which is also getting torn off to the plywood and re-roofed) and the EPDM will go down all 3 sides' fascias. I think I'm starting to 'get' this. Thank you .. .. thank you all!


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## Linda135 (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi, how would one pitch the self-flashing gutter? I ask here because I know i will get the best answers here. Thanks. Linda


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Linda135 said:


> Hi, how would one pitch the self-flashing gutter? I ask here because I know i will get the best answers here. Thanks. Linda


 
Well you can and you cant. If you buy the ones like say online you really cant. If you have someone make them, and they are good sheet metal people they can build the slope in to the profile. Also it depends how long the gutter is. Say 20' I wouldnt bother making a sloped gutter. 40-50' Yes of course. You could do a regular K style and do a normal drip edge. If the EPDM is behind the gutter ont he fasica and back side of the gutter covers the EPDM you wont have to worry about Ice damns.


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## Kj4x10n (May 12, 2011)

*Call me Stupid??...*

install gutter with a few nails to the facia just to hold in place. Caulk the back of the gutter, and then term bar the epdm into the caulk, with screws and hidder hangers????


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Linda if you look at my website Commercial Box Gutters you will see the back of the gutter is higher on one side than the other. Well maybe it's not incredibly obvious because the gutters shown are short but, the pitch is bent into the gutter when the gutter is fabricated. This is truly a custom gutter for each building, our fabrication shop will typically build 2-3" of pitch into a average 24' gutter. 

1985 is right you can use a regular gutter, but it's much more difficult to use the shingle roof gutter (k style) on a flat roof. First the rofo membrane would wrap the fascia, then the gutter would be installed, then a strip of membrane sealed to the roof and wrapped into the gutter, then a termination bar in the gutter. It'll work, but alot of extra work.


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