# Aluminum Window Replacement



## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

I'll be removing siding from my home in a few weeks. While the siding is removed from the house, I would like to replace 8 aluminum sliding windows with vinyl sliders. There's no exterior window flange going over the siding.

I'm getting myself into a dizzy here, I'd rather not remove the aluminum frames for fear of what I may find underneath. Going that route, would i require a finless window or a flush fin? 

Do i measure inside the pockets or outside the pockets (from the metal fins)?

For a fin less window going into an existing aluminum frame, is the old aluminum frame revealed on the exterior? how does that get covered?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Back up and take another picture of the inside.
Is this a mobile home or a porch window?
Looks more like a storm window in there then a real window.

Why would you want a slider and not a double hung window.
More air tight, easy to clean the whole window from the inside.

There called a flat jamb window, in most cases that the last type I suggest. 
Why is the siding coming off.


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

Siding is coming off because I am installing new vinyl siding. Figured that was a good time to replace the sliders.

I chose to replace with sliders because that's what's in there now and i want to replace without having chubby looking double-hungs. This particular window RO is approx 34.5"Wx34"H.

2 story colonial home, 1900 sq ft. Interior is sheetrock, exterior is steel siding from 1970's.

Storm window on the outside of the aluminum window.

Would home depot have "flat jamb" windows? is there another common name for that type of window?

I guess i'm just confused on the various window types:
fin less
flush fin

do these refer to the exterior moulding? nailer?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

What are you replacing the siding with?

Flat jambs are the hardest type to get a water and air tight seal.
Order new constrution windows with built in J moulding and install time on the siding is reduced and with window tape you can get an air and water tight seal.
The very last place I would be ordering windows from is a box store.
Who's going to be doing all this work?


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Not to throw off your thinking, but since you are installing new siding, you could frame down those openings and install double hung windows that would make your home look a lot more "Colonial" It would not take too much since you are re-siding anyway, and you could trim the inside to make them look nice.

Just a thought. Good Luck!


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

jagans, your idea is good, however for my tight budget adding lumber to build for DH windows is out for me. also, my dining room window is like 52x72 and that is something i'm trying to avoid as well. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

joecaption, i like your idea. my next concern is the sill is flat. how do i build a sloped sill? or is there a product that can be applied to the sill to make it sloped?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

New constrution or flat jambs all install the same except far more involved to install a flat jamb, no need to change anything with the rough opening you have now.
Just not a big fan of sliding windows.
Anyone I know that has them wishes they were gone.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Sliders are notorious for air leaks as compared to Double hungs.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Casement Windows? They are really nice and tight, albeit not usual on a Colonial. You must be spending a lot on energy with those sliders, maybe you can get a deal from your energy provider, or pay for a loan with the money saved per month. Just a thought, I know times are tight.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Westbrook said:


> I'd rather not remove the aluminum frames for fear of what I may find underneath.


You'll be removing the siding, what's your plan if/when you find rot under that?

If your budgets that tight then you might want to order just half the windows and 
siding at first until you know what your're getting into.

You can fear what's underneath if you wish but what's the point of new windows and siding if you're not going to take care of any structure issues at the same time.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

jagans said:


> Casement Windows? They are really nice and tight, albeit not usual on a Colonial. You must be spending a lot on energy with those sliders, maybe you can get a deal from your energy provider, or pay for a loan with the money saved per month. Just a thought, I know times are tight.


Casements are my favorite and if the OP is removing the siding, he 100% should pull the fins and go full new construction.


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

Great feedback gang. Windows on wash, slider air leaks through the glass itself or poor installation? 

I am losing quite a bit of conditioned air and heat through the windows. I can feel air through the panels. Figured anything available today is better than the single pane glass aluminum frames. Winter months are the worst, we conserve any other month. 

Old man is my siding guy, material is already taken care of just waiting for nice weather. If I find rot that will certainly be resolved, I own my home and take no chances. My comment for tight budget was in reference to spend more to build out framing for DH's. I already know I have rotted facia boards on the front and will replace those. 

So in summary, new construction, sliders, with integrated J-channel. Anyone have experience with DuPont flexWrap?


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## paul100 (Aug 29, 2009)

Since you are in southeast PA area I would look into B.F. Rich Cabernet tilt and slide window. They are sliding windows but instead of the type that lifts out of the frame they are able to be tilted in for a larger opening or for easy cleaning. Think of a double hung window turned on its side. They seal a lot better then ordinary sliders. Here is a link for it. http://www.bfrich.com/cabernet.html

I believe it has the option for nailing flange and J-channel. The company I work for in Phila. is a dealer of these windows. If you have any questions on those let me know and I will get the info.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Westbrook said:


> Great feedback gang. Windows on wash, slider air leaks through the glass itself or poor installation?
> 
> I am losing quite a bit of conditioned air and heat through the windows. I can feel air through the panels. Figured anything available today is better than the single pane glass aluminum frames. Winter months are the worst, we conserve any other month.
> 
> ...


At the meeting rail.

Tyvek Flex Wrap and Straight Flash are a well though out system.

My personal favorites in terms of windows are HiMark, Soft-Lite, and Sunrise.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

go with new construction windows with the nail fin since you are removing the exterior siding and will have access to nail the fins around the rough window hole. you will have to cut into the drywall jamb some on the interior because the new window will be 4 5/8" wide from the nailing fin, unlike the thin jamb on the window you have now. actually, with a slider the window jamb width could be 3" and then that depends to on the window make and model. 

as a side note- take that aluminum siding to the scrap yard when you pull it off the house, do not throw it away. I was $700.00 in the green on one job where we pulled all of the aluminum siding to get back to original siding underneath (older house with character that was hidden when the aluminum salesmen showed up at the door in the 70's).


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

Hand drive, you are correct the current width is about 2.5" i will cut back the interior jambs. As i tyvek the exterior i will also bring the tyvek into the rough opening and flexwrap the sill.

Do you shim the bottom nailer for water egress? Seen that in a video.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

"Do you shim the bottom nailer for water egress" never heard of that one.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If you do not remove the sheetrock returns on the window I see no way to get the shims in or inject the expanding foam in between the rough opening and the back sides of the window jambs for a proper seal.
You'll just be counting on the caulking joint around the drywall.


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

Sorry wasnt detailed in my question.

Heres a link to the video. Notice he uses horseshoe shims under the bottom nailer and drives a nail through it. Is this necessary?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2bzfpRgCEA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I can see what there trying to do and like most of it but just not fully getting the silly washers.
I never saw them using a level, they looked like there not setting a double hung window, just a picture window that's easyer to set.
I may be wrong but I'm seeing where there's going to be a hump under the window pushing out the siding.
I've set hundreds of windows, never had a call back for a leak and never used those washers.
I've never even seen them mentioned in any install directions, on any window companys web site or even for sale anyplace I buy my windows.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

joecaption said:


> If you do not remove the sheetrock returns on the window I see no way to get the shims in or inject the expanding foam in between the rough opening and the back sides of the window jambs for a proper seal.
> You'll just be counting on the caulking joint around the drywall.



that is always the issue with replacement windows (getting insulation in the void between the rough opening and backside of replacement window jamb) and it is even more so an issue when using new construction windows in a replacement window setting though the new window fins are much better. 

probably better off pulling off the drywall toward the interior of the wall past the outside metal corner bead and re installing trim(window casing) with wood jamb extensions in place of the drywall. this would allow full exposure to the backside of the jambs and with a 4 5/8" window jamb on the replacement window- jamb stops would not even be needed, just new window trim...


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## Westbrook (Mar 11, 2013)

Follow-up to window project. I have gone with new construction windows. I replaced all old aluminum sliders with new vinyl single hung windows. I must say it's so nice to have a window stay open and feel clean breezes!

scrapped all the aluminum siding and windows, about 950lbs of aluminum. Sills were in great condition. Had to cut back the sheet rock returns about 1/2". 

Next up is to refinish the old window stools, rip to new size, paint, and repeat for all the other windows. Going with a piece of trim to conceal the drywall to window gap. 

window mfg installed the wrong size balances on 6 of 8 windows. block and tackle style so the correct ones were sent and i replaced easily - just an inconvenience.

Thanks for the replies.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

You'd sure quickly get to understanding the colored horseshoe shim requirements if you installed in Florida. Many municipalities have (for about 20 -25 years) specified these particular shims so the inspectors can easily see if you met the maximum of 1/4" spacing their codes call for.


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