# Help! Walls Smell and I don't Think It's the PainT



## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Hey All,

I bought this place 3 years ago and have an ongoing issue that is driving me mad. 

I feel that all walls in this house had wall paper at some point. When we bought it, the hallway, playroom and two bedrooms had it, now just two bathrooms have it. This house was built in 1974 and has drywall covered in white stuff.

I've since stripped most of it other than bathrooms and painted with many many coats, primers, Zinsser Gardz etc. No matter what I do there is a chalky, clay smell emanating from walls. I cannot afford to replace all walls in house. Now we started stripping bathroom and walls smell. Picture attached of bare wall. 

What is causing this smell, what is this smell? Doesn't matter if it is outside wall or internal. Even walls that didn't have wallpaper have a subtle scent. I just hope it isn't poisoning my family. Can someone please help me.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

My computer was not equipped with Smell-avision, so I can only ask questions.

Are you sure that you have drywall? Might be a plaster and lath system, and did you do anything with the ceiling?

Ceiling could be causing the smell if it's still the original coating.

Best to have it analyzed at a lab.

Take a scraping sample to your County health office and have the scraping sample analyzed.


ED


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Built in 74 the odds are it's drywall.
Can you describe the odor? positive it's the walls and not the floor? any other clues?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I like ED's suggestion to at least have it tested... for safety.

I don't believe it was in the 70's, but there was a problem with "bad" Chinese drywall in later years if something was redone in your home in later years.

If safe and just old cigarette or cooking smells etc.... prime it with shellac... BIN makes a very good pigmented shellac... there are other oil base products that work well and are less pricey.

Good luck


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Hey all. 

I've been told by guys doing work around hhouse it is drywall. In addition it is 100% walls. Ceilings don't smell and floors are new and have no odor. I've tryed BIN, then painted three coats and it has a different smell, but still smells. I was amazed.

Other things: The smell is that off Chalk dust, like the smell of a chalkboard. I'm perplexed...really am. The barewall is drywall, covered in some type of skim coat. Could it be the wallpaper residue mixed with that? I just can't believe paint doesn't mask. Horrendous.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

First, paint doesn't mask but the BIN should have - did you completely cover the wall surfaces with it?


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

yes i did, twice. It's really become hopeless


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

WOW ... FENWAY...

In my experience, two coats of Bin SHELLAC have never failed.

I'm really wondering if it is the drywall.... are you *really sure *the smell is coming from the drywall itself....?


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

i waited some time to recoat, does that matter? that room with bin smells different now than others, not chalk but still has a smell. The coat of bin cracked in many places in that room. stayed on though. Zinsser said that wasn't a horrible thing and to just paint over, should be fine.

**Also 100% sure coming from wall. Not sure if it's drywall or skim coat. Also, it is every inch of every once papered wall. Not just a spot here and there. Every inch!


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

To bring everyone up to speed.......Fenway has been battling this problem for some time. I'm starting to think it's something INSIDE the walls? Mold? White Mold? Black Mold? I think with the walls being primed over and over with BIN eliminates any wall surface issues......maybe.....

http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/best-odor-blocking-primer-suggestions-502769/


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Maybe it's time to see what's behind the drywall?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Fenway..... You sure you used Bin SHELAC.... they make several primers... basically good.... but the real Shellac is the go-to cadilac for tough jobs.... 

What did you pay for a gallon.?????


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

hello- I do not believe you will get to bottom of your issue until multiple affected sections of drywall are invaded, inspected, & tested front/back; also the inside of these wall cavities checked along with the condition of the studs. down low, mid-height, & possibly up high if was water damaged from above... what are conditions below this living level & also in attic? Is plumbing piping original from 70s?

Peace


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

About the only way pigmented shellac like Zinnser's BIN won't seal in odors is if it's applied thinly or with holidays [missed spots] 1 good fluid coat should seal the substrate. I agree it's probably time to look for another cause of the odor. Is the odor stronger next to electrical outlets or any opening in the drywall?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I saw an article this morning on the internet, where the new owners of a home in Texas found the dried up bones of the previous owner in the walls.

Morbid , for sure.

Seems the previous owner disappeared several years ago, and the bank resold her house, without checking it over very well.

She has fallen through a broken board in the attic, and gotten trapped between the walls.

Maybe your smell is something similar.


ED


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Hey all, i get the skepticism. I used zinnser Bin, smelt like alcohol, wore a respirator almost changed my life. Wall was green and when done completely white and no sign of green. So it was applied good. But the room it was put in smells different, smell isn't as pungent. The thing is fellas, any wall we took down wallpaper on smells like this. For instance, my wife took town some in downstairs bathroom over weekend and the bathroom now smells like a chalkboard. The walls are solid no mushy spots or anything. We took down one wall to do some remodeling of window and it was perfect, no mold no rot and no smell. This smell is coming from every inch of walls. Like a dusty, chalky smell. It is baffling and a really bad thing to deal with.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Crazy...... Fenway......????????

I/m stumped....(the only thing left that I can think of is that you and the wife have been snorting chalk.... :surprise:....just kidding:smile


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm stumped as well although I can relate. The house I live in was once a friend's house where I spent a lot of time as a kid. It always had a strange smell to it.......not quite like anything I've ever smelled before. To this day, that smell finds its way to my nose. I've never found the source although some old paint on some window sills may be the culprit. 

My only other stab at this is perhaps the adhesive used to hang the wallpaper contained something pungent and anything put on the wall (even BIN) re-activates the smell.

Fenway, you may want to contact someone at your local paint store. Someone there may be able to visit your home and help you out. It's a long shot, but, some paint stores have old-timers who may have come across something like this before.


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> I'm stumped as well although I can relate. The house I live in was once a friend's house where I spent a lot of time as a kid. It always had a strange smell to it.......not quite like anything I've ever smelled before. To this day, that smell finds its way to my nose. I've never found the source although some old paint on some window sills may be the culprit.
> 
> My only other stab at this is perhaps the adhesive used to hang the wallpaper contained something pungent and anything put on the wall (even BIN) re-activates the smell.
> 
> Fenway, you may want to contact someone at your local paint store. Someone there may be able to visit your home and help you out. It's a long shot, but, some paint stores have old-timers who may have come across something like this before.


I'll tell you this. I cannot believe that this isn't something people come across, the paint store guys mentioned lime in old skim coat as a possible cause. In addition, old wall paper can smell. But I never expected it to last forever, would think it would go away, but no. I smelt the walls today a few times and truly the closest smell is that of a chalk board. I find myself secretly :biggrin2:smelling walls of friends houses when I know nobody is looking and they don't smell like anything. I truly think i'm screwed and have to live with this because replacing all the walls would cost me like 35k. I just don't get why they smell. Makes no sense. Does anybody know what was used in the 70s for skim coat or for wallpaper that would emit a chalky wet odor? Can this be bumped? I'm losing my mind over this.


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

wouldn't even bother me...can't smell bleep
old plumbers never die...just smell that way :vs_smirk:

Peace


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> I'm stumped as well although I can relate. The house I live in was once a friend's house where I spent a lot of time as a kid. It always had a strange smell to it.......not quite like anything I've ever smelled before. To this day, that smell finds its way to my nose. I've never found the source although some old paint on some window sills may be the culprit.
> 
> My only other stab at this is perhaps the adhesive used to hang the wallpaper contained something pungent and anything put on the wall (even BIN) re-activates the smell.
> 
> Fenway, you may want to contact someone at your local paint store. Someone there may be able to visit your home and help you out. It's a long shot, but, some paint stores have old-timers who may have come across something like this before.


 
Not saying it isn't but I have never come across it before.:no:


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Theoretically, no odor should be able to permeate the BIN. 

You did BIN the ceilings too, right? I know you said you have new floors, but what are they? Subfloors can retain odors too. I was once hired to repaint a dead body house, and I was instructed to spray and backroll Kilz on every thing, including the subfloors.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> was instructed to spray and backroll Kilz on every thing, including the subfloors.


Same thing with fire remediation. All porous surfaces get coated with either pigmented shellac or a good oil base primer to seal any odors. Failure to do so on a fire job will result in the smoke smell returning on humid days.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Here you go, stolen from the painters chatroom


Going out on a limb here but i have seen something similar before! The original paper hanger used calcimine to smooth and size the drywall. The calcimine should have been removed prior to being primed or painted. Unfortunately that would have been extremely difficult since the water soluble calcimine was sealed by the original wallpaper adhesive. What you are seeing is the lithipone used to whiten the calcimine. Over time it turns a yellowish,brownish,greyish color. The only way to completely correct the issue is to completely re-drywall the areas where it is happening. You could try multiple coats of bin, as any holidays or pinholes will let this continue to leach through.

I actually saw this very same thing on an old movie theater restoration. It had been re-finished in the early 70's by an old school wallpaper hanger/painter. Prior to the common use of drywall skim coats, they would use a coat of calcimine to smooth the drywall prior to hanging wallpaper. The only solution was 4 coats of bin and there was still a feint chalky odor. Also, there is a bit of a chance that there is lead paint or even asbestos added to the calcimine, so proper precautions should be taken such as having the walls tested by a professional lead/asbestos testing contractor. The odds are good on the lead paint but not so much on the asbestos in a home.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks, ChrisN, I was just going to post the same thing. Well, maybe I will anyway, just in case Fenway doesn't see your post.
@Fenwayhhh: Courtesy of PacMan on Painttalk or Klaatu here on DIY:

Going out on a limb here but i have seen something similar before! The original paper hanger used calcimine to smooth and size the drywall. The calcimine should have been removed prior to being primed or painted. Unfortunately that would have been extremely difficult since the water soluble calcimine was sealed by the original wallpaper adhesive. What you are seeing is the lithipone used to whiten the calcimine. Over time it turns a yellowish,brownish,greyish color. The only way to completely correct the issue is to completely re-drywall the areas where it is happening. You could try multiple coats of bin, as any holidays or pinholes will let this continue to leach through.

I actually saw this very same thing on an old movie theater restoration. It had been re-finished in the early 70's by an old school wallpaper hanger/painter. Prior to the common use of drywall skim coats, they would use a coat of calcimine to smooth the drywall prior to hanging wallpaper. The only solution was 4 coats of bin and there was still a feint chalky odor. Also, there is a bit of a chance that there is lead paint or even asbestos added to the calcimine, so proper precautions should be taken such as having the walls tested by a professional lead/asbestos testing contractor. The odds are good on the lead paint but not so much on the asbestos in a home.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

mark sr said:


> Same thing with fire remediation. All porous surfaces get coated with either pigmented shellac or a good oil base primer to seal any odors. Failure to do so on a fire job will result in the smoke smell returning on humid days.


I did a couple of those for the same company. One of them was an attic fire, so I got to crawl in the attick and spray kilz with insulation blowing all over the place, and it was a bit warm, to say the least... That was a rough day.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Gymschu said:


> Thanks, ChrisN, I was just going to post the same thing. Well, maybe I will anyway, just in case Fenway doesn't see your post.
> @Fenwayhhh: Courtesy of PacMan on Painttalk or Klaatu here on DIY:
> 
> Going out on a limb here but i have seen something similar before! The original paper hanger used calcimine to smooth and size the drywall. The calcimine should have been removed prior to being primed or painted. Unfortunately that would have been extremely difficult since the water soluble calcimine was sealed by the original wallpaper adhesive. What you are seeing is the lithipone used to whiten the calcimine. Over time it turns a yellowish,brownish,greyish color. The only way to completely correct the issue is to completely re-drywall the areas where it is happening. You could try multiple coats of bin, as any holidays or pinholes will let this continue to leach through.
> ...


I would go along with being Calcimine it would have had hide glue mixed in with the lime , or even wheat paste as a glue for the wall paper.


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Guys. If this is the case and I bet it is. Is the smell harmful? And your saying the only way to end this is to rip out all drywall in house?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Has there been any termite testing done?


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Testimg found levels of alcohol higher than normal. I feel the calcimine theory is it. This smells like chalk lime etc. but is that bad for health?

I feel we are finally getting somewhere. How do i het rid of this. Walls are painted. Would a skin coat do it?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've only applied the calcimine paint once and that was over 45 yrs ago. If I remember correctly the few times that I've painted over it we used an oil base primer first .... but I'm sure it's been 40 yrs since I've seen any walls with that coating.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Most calcimine paints had hide glue used as a binder.
As for skimming over the calcimine you must remember that it is water soluble and the skim coating will not bond very well at all. The best thing to do is remove it. How well are the top coatings bonded to it now? I have used Orange Shellac to cover the Calcimine coating the reason for Orange color is you can see if you missed an areas. Than skim with setting compound do not use a joint compound.


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

So i put on shellacand it fractured everywhere. Hairline. And still smells


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

On the area that fractured using a water misting bottle wet an area down with water let stand re-mist than see if you can remove the under laying material if it is calcimine it will come off.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Based on all the info so far, I think you will be further ahead to remove the walls and start over with new drywall, @Fenwayhhh. Skim coating may further re-activate the calcimine and bring more fumes into the rooms, at least in the short term. I have to admit, this is the first time I've seen Shellac defeated in masking an odor........


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe try one more coat of Bin but add some of this stuff. I've never used it but have heard about it. 

https://paintscentsations.com/


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

Hi All,

I having a painter come by tomorrow. 

We've done some smelling around house. I know this sounds insane, but walls should not smell like anything in my opinion. 

Any wall in the house that had or has wallpaper on it (wallpaper from 70s) smells like a musty, chalk odor...aka wet plaster. It doesn't matter if its a wall facing outside or internal...it is every inch of where paper was. 

Walls that didn't ever have wallpaper....for example the closets smell like nothing. 

Therefore, the wallpaper is causing this...why would wallpaper leave a never ending smell of chalky, clay plaster and be so strong that is goes through paint and BIN, primer, Gardz and so on down the line. Oh and by the way, the paper is like impossible to get off, it is insane.

What the hell am I dealing with?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yeah, it's time to remove it all and start over. If none of those primers/sealers can lock in the smell and eliminate it, then nothing will. Forget the painter, call the best local drywall guy and get him in there pronto and get this done ASAP. Might not hurt to call your insurance company as some of the work may be covered.

Clay smell may be coming from the wallpaper adhesive. Clay was a predominant ingredient in many wallpaper adhesives from the 50's and is still used to this day I believe.


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

I understand the start over advice, but I cannot even come close to affording that. The price for 2 12-12 bedrooms was 4k-plus! I have a fairly large house. I can't believe I seem to be the only one dealing with this issue. This really stinks.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I would call your insurance company. They may pay for the new drywall after your deductible is met. I've seen it happen with other similar instances, although they involved smoke smell on walls.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Could your sense of smell have increased? It happens.


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## subpanel (Feb 21, 2018)

Ok, this one is going to sound bizarre....long time ago I read an article that mentioned that somebody bought a house and felt nauseous after moving in. Turned out the house was used previously for producing meth and the walls had chemicals in it that were embedded and made new owners sick. I certainly hope that isn't the case here but though I might throw it our there. 

Have these walls inspected ASAP>


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

He said funds are tight right now. There is a meth test via Internet. I don't know how reliable it is. It's for surfaces. I don't know what the smell of meth cooking is, but I bet it's not chalky.


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