# Stone Veneer over Cinder Blocks



## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

I have a cinderblock foundation home that I'd like to stone veneer the exterior. I'm experienced at setting tile, but have little masonary experience.

I did a brief search both here at the site, and googled, and either found little info specific to cinders, or more, conflicting opinions on the prep work. Some say metal lathe, some not. Some say to put a scratch coat on first, and wait 2 hours, others wait 48 hours. Some said just butter the backs, and stick them on........etc, etc.

Here are the specifics to my application. I'll be running a band, ranging from 2' to 4' tall around the entire perimeter of the home. The blocks have never been painted, nor do I see any signs of sealing. I have a 2x8 skirt around the perimeter just above the cinders. I've not chose the veneer yet, but plan for it to be no thicker/taller than 1 3/4", so that it doesn't stick out further than the skirt.

Can someone please advise me on the proper application?
Thanks!
Regards,
Jules


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

Another question -

My plan was to build up some dirt around the foundation to help with runoff, after installing the veneer. Any issues with putting dirt directly against the stone veneer??


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

All of the stone veneers I am familiar with are in reality concrete. A little dirt on them or burying a few isn't going to hurt anything that I can see.

As far as an installation method...all of those products come with instructions.:yes:


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> As far as an installation method...all of those products come with instructions.:yes:


You mean, read the instructions?? That's asking a little much, isn't it? 

I am probably trying to over-think it. The internet is a double edged sword. Just in the brief time I've researched it today, I've learned a lot, but also been given too many things to worry about....

thanks for chiming in.
Jules


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> You mean, read the instructions??


Yes, when all else fails - resort to the instructions.



> I am probably trying to over-think it.


Yup!



> I've learned a lot, but also been given *too many things to worry about....*


Like what? What's to worry about? Follow the instructions.

_Always follow the manufacturer’s recommendations as the first source of information..._
_I read that somewhere!_


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> Like what? What's to worry about? Follow the instructions.
> 
> _Always follow the manufacturer’s recommendations as the first source of information..._
> _I read that somewhere!_


Yeah, seems like I read it not to long ago myself...... 

First, I didn't know that stone veneers came with instructions. That's a bonus. I've bought a box or two of tile over the years. Never ran into anything that resembled instructions.
Really, the only thing that I ran into that could be of possible real concern was the manufactered stone has a high moisture absorption rate, compared to natural stone. The site went on to discuss seperation from the structure issues, due to contraction/expansion.......like I said. looking too hard for stuff to worry about.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> That's a bonus. I've bought a box or two of tile over the years. Never ran into anything that resembled instructions.


That's "tile", not veneer faux stone.
All manufacturers have printed instructions available. The instructions may not come in each box, they are usually in the form of a three-fold paper brochure with pictures and everything. They even tell you what products to use to install the stone.

What stone are you looking at? What's the manufacturers name? Jheeeeezh!


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> What stone are you looking at? What's the manufacturers name? Jheeeeezh!


Haven't got that far. Had a brainfart last night, and decided to install the veneer first, instead of last, so I can go ahead and do the dirt work around the home.

Thought I'd grab a little knowledge here before I went "shopping".

Long story boring..... doing a complete gut rehab with exterior wall and window changes. I always like to work from top to bottom. That's what I intended to do here. roof, trim, stucco, paint, veneer. Gravity has a way of messing things up below your work, as you know. But in this case, I think I'll break tradition. I just need to get some drainage issues under control.

Any perfered lines? I have approx. 350sqft to cover, and would like to stay under 7$/ft, if that's possible.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

My experience has been with real creek rock, but I see no problem using fine sand and brixment to do your type of rock. Just be sure to keep your ratio of the mix consistant, and the tinting of the mortar that is exposed if you so desire to do it. Have a basket full of wood blocks for proping up the rock,depending what style you pick out. Anything too uniform looks fake, and remember,the secret in doing your job, is have wire brushes handy, and at the end of the day wire brush any mortar off the faces of the rock. It takes days for mortar to get hard under the rock, so don't rush it. Do your practicing behind the house, by the time your in front of the house you'll be a pro. Remember it's the mortar joint that separates the men from the boy's, or should I say the Ladies from the girls ! !


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

JulesB said:


> I have a cinderblock foundation home that I'd like to stone veneer the exterior. I'm experienced at setting tile, but have little masonary experience.
> 
> I did a brief search both here at the site, and googled, and either found little info specific to cinders, or more, conflicting opinions on the prep work. Some say metal lathe, some not. Some say to put a scratch coat on first, and wait 2 hours, others wait 48 hours. Some said just butter the backs, and stick them on........etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Some stone requires a ledge to rest on. Sort of like a brick ledge which is part of the foundation. If there is no ledge, you would need to bolt a steel angle to the foundation to carry the load.
It will all be in those elusive instructions or the manufacturers website.
Ron
Ron


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

bernieb said:


> Remember it's the mortar joint that separates the men from the boy's, or should I say the Ladies from the girls ! !


Bernie,
Thanks for the pointers. I hadn't come across having a variety of wood blocks at hand. If I happen to choose a heavy stone, I could see that would be handy.

As far as gender....... whose been telling you about my crossdressing on the weekends?? :laughing: 
I'm a guy. Or at least I've got my wife and daughters fooled into thinking so.
no worries......


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> Some stone requires a ledge to rest on. Sort of like a brick ledge which is part of the foundation. If there is no ledge, you would need to bolt a steel angle to the foundation to carry the load.
> It will all be in those elusive instructions or the manufacturers website.
> Ron
> Ron


I ran across the possibility of needing angle iron on one of my searches. As I commented in a previous post, I'd like to find a shallow veneer to keep it under, or mostly under, the house skirt. Hopefully, in doing so, it will be a light weight variety, and I'll be able to skip this step. Steel isn't cheap, and hooking into cinderblocks has always been a pain, in my opinion.

As of this morning, I knew almost nothing about faux stone. Have quickly learned that due to the variety of styles, shapes, thicknesses, and weights, installation procedures seem to be all over the board. So yes, I'll give in, and read the installation instructions.......ugh


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

Jules,I didn't read your profile ,sorry..............a lady laying rock, have I lost my mind. Ron6519 is right,you need to snap a chalkline, and use a piece of angle iron, or a straight 2x4 and move it along after a couple of days.


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

bernieb said:


> Jules,I didn't read your profile ,sorry..............a lady laying rock, have I lost my mind. Ron6519 is right,you need to snap a chalkline, and use a piece of angle iron, or a straight 2x4 and move it along after a couple of days.


No worries. Actually, not the first time it's happened. My name is Julian, but as the user name suggests, everyone calls me Jules.
I just assumed you had to leave the angle iron there for heavier stones. If you can apply 8 or 10 feet, let it set, then move it down. That would be prefered, saving cost on angle. And I assume, doing it for the first time, by myself, I probably won't get much further than 10' at a shot anyway. Who knows, I might be a natural......


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I would at least power wash the wall first possibly even etch it with acid if I thought it was necessary.

After that, you treat it as a prepped wall, no lath or pre-coat necessary in almost all apps. I would recommend a tinted basecoat of plaster if you're installing a drystack stone w/o grout in the joints though.

You really don't need an angle or temporary support of any kind IF you are applying correctly with the correct mortar.

As for brands, the options are endless. Getting under $7 a sq. foot will limit you somewhat, but I would check out a local masonry supplier to see what options they have.


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

One thought while getting started on the lay-up of the rock, and since your butting against a band board so to speak and depending on the pattern of the puzzle pieces , you may need to work from the top down, to keep you from cutting every piece. And this question is for Jomama45, would it help to add some builders lime to the mortar to make it cling better on the lay-up?


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

bernieb said:


> One thought while getting started on the lay-up of the rock, and since your butting against a band board so to speak and depending on the pattern of the puzzle pieces , you may need to work from the top down, to keep you from cutting every piece.
> 
> Excellent point that I meant to make as well. We almost always lay from the top down, for a number of reasons, but mostly to keep the staining from mortar droppings to a minimum. The only time we typically lay from the bottom -up is on natural thin sawn stone, which are far heavier with less "bite" on the back of the stone.
> 
> And this question is for Jomama45, would it help to add some builders lime to the mortar to make it cling better on the lay-up?


Usually, either Type N or S will contain a sufficient amount of lime. I would suggest adding 8-16 ounces of a admix. bonding agent to each full size batch though if the stone aren't sticking well. A little bonding agent can really work wonders especially on the NTV stone I mentioned above.


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

jomama45 said:


> I would at least power wash the wall first possibly even etch it with acid if I thought it was necessary.
> 
> *Will definitely pressure wash it. It really looks clean, porous and "dry", so I think I'm all right without etching.*
> 
> ...


*Pros or Cons on purchasing from the local big box stores? ie home depot or Lowes? Price differences? Quality?*

Appreciate you chiming in.
Regards,
Jules


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## JulesB (Jan 19, 2011)

bernieb said:


> One thought while getting started on the lay-up of the rock, and since your butting against a band board so to speak and depending on the pattern of the puzzle pieces , you may need to work from the top down, to keep you from cutting every piece.


Barring slippage, I had planned on running top to bottom, as being a newbie at it, I'm sure I'll be somewhat messy. But I hadn't even thought about factoring in the band as a starting line. Starting at the top is a must now. And since I'll be running them to the dirt, I see far less cutting. Thanks.


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## Hardrock (Aug 21, 2011)

Hi, i`m using real stone,(granite),on a chimney covered in lathe. Using the "lick n stick" method i`m now using pre-mixed mortar and adding masonary cement to the mix. I also have been using a bonder& fortifier to brush on the lathe and mix into the final colored mortar mix that i use to fill in the gaps. The big issue i am having is the time it takes for each stone to grab the cinderblocks of the chimney and support its own weight. It takes to long. It can be done but i`d really like to cut down on the time i have to hold the stone in place till the mortar carries the weight. Is there an adhesive or additive aside from what i`m using to bond the stone to the chimney block quickly? Thanks.

Anthony


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> It can be done but i`d really like to cut down on the time i have to hold the stone in place till the mortar carries the weight.


*Then stop making it up as you go.* Where on earth are you getting these ideas. You sound like you are teaching a chemistry class and trying to re-invent the wheel at the same time.

You are using all the wrong stuff. Where are you getting this crap?

On top of all of that nonsense you have hijacked someone else's thread too.


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## Hardrock (Aug 21, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> *Then stop making it up as you go.* Where on earth are you getting these ideas. You sound like you are teaching a chemistry class and trying to re-invent the wheel at the same time.
> 
> You are using all the wrong stuff. Where are you getting this crap?
> 
> On top of all of that nonsense you have hijacked someone else's thread too.


Why thanks Bud, that was...really constructive and helpful. Instead of running me down in the dirt, how about telling me what the right stuff IS and...what to do. Don`t concider it "hijacking" i`m new here and asking a question. Wow, what an awesome reception.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Why thanks Bud, that was...really constructive and helpful. Instead of running me down in the dirt, how about telling me what the right stuff IS and...what to do. Don`t concider it "hijacking" i`m new here and asking a question. Wow, what an awesome reception.


Didn't intend for it to be helpful and I've never been a member of any welcoming committee here. It seems you already have all of the answers, you don't need me.

Guys like you are a dime a dozen around here. You come in here after trying all kinds of asinine things you made up on your own and then when you get yourself in trouble you want to be bailed out but lack the ability to take any criticism.

You haven't answered my question so I'll ask again ! Where on earth did you get those ideas you have been using?

And you are still hijacking someone else's thread. Why don't you start your own thread? Feel free.


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## Hardrock (Aug 21, 2011)

Didn't intend for it to be helpful and I've never been a member of any welcoming committee here. It seems you already have all of the answers, you don't need me.

Guys like you are a dime a dozen around here. You come in here after trying all kinds of asinine things you made up on your own and then when you get yourself in trouble you want to be bailed out but lack the ability to take any criticism.

You haven't answered my question so I'll ask again ! Where on earth did you get those ideas you have been using?

Insane things huh? Well, i did my homework. I researched how to do it on the net. I asked tons of questions from ALOT of masons. I`m not dry stacking. So NO, i did NOT make up anything on my own. The only thing i wanted to know was if there was a better concrete product to use to cut down on the time it takes for the stone to adhear to the chinmey block. Instead, i get a responce from some arrogant ******* who really does not want to help anyone but is just proud of his thread count. Unfortunately, guys like YOU are a dime a dozen too. That`s why consumers made things like Angies list. So that can watch out for people like YOU.


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