# HomeWyse Website Accurate?



## mikeyp78

Has anyone out there utilized HomeWyse (http://www.homewyse.com/costs/) as either a consumer or a professional? Do you find that the estimates that it comes up with are fairly accurate?


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## HARRY304E

mikeyp78 said:


> Has anyone out there utilized HomeWyse (http://www.homewyse.com/costs/) as either a consumer or a professional? Do you find that the estimates that it comes up with are fairly accurate?



That site exist to beat down contractors..:no:


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## DIYRemodeler

It is my personal experience that their estimates are not accurate. Not exactly sure how they get their data...but I suspect that their estimates are based on very small samples. Especially at the local levels. IMO I think you're better off asking a group of friends, neighbors or co-workers how much they paid and then averaging out to get your own ballpark estimate.


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## eandjsdad

Cost can be right on or way off - there's no way to tell.


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## mikeyp78

HARRY304E said:


> That site exist to beat down contractors..:no:


So the quotes are way-too-low?
Thanks!!!


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## beenthere

mikeyp78 said:


> So the quotes are way-too-low?
> Thanks!!!


Extremely low.


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## cleveman

I think the costs are accurate. 

For example, they list installing an oak floor at $7-9/square foot. I think that is accurate.

They want $2.50/square foot for installing tile backerboard. I think this is accurate. I would do it for that price.

Install sidewalk-$3.50-4. Again, about right on the money.

What kind of costs do you guys find out of line?


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## SHR Plumber

Some prices are accurate for handyman rates. But some are ridiculously low and could only be done by total hacks for the prices they list.


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## beenthere

cleveman said:


> I think the costs are accurate.
> 
> For example, they list installing an oak floor at $7-9/square foot. I think that is accurate.
> 
> They want $2.50/square foot for installing tile backerboard. I think this is accurate. I would do it for that price.
> 
> Install sidewalk-$3.50-4. Again, about right on the money.
> 
> What kind of costs do you guys find out of line?


So you can make payroll on those kind of prices.


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## cleveman

For those 3 examples I mentioned, yes, I could and have made payroll on them. There are currently a lot of people doing those jobs for those prices.

Can you guys give some examples of what they are low on? Do they want you to install a water heater for $50 or what?

I can imagine how the cost of living is higher in some areas than Iowa, but I can't see how it can be much different in Indiana or PA.


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## beenthere

Central A/C install cost.

http://www.homewyse.com/costs/cost_of_centtal_air_conditioning_systems.html


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## cleveman

Yeah, they might be a bit low on furnace and central air installation. I wanted to see if they had a price for both because I have never just installed one and not the other, but they don't.

The want about 1500-2000 for a good quality furnace install and list the hours at 7.5, which worked out to $66 per hour.

The last time I paid someone to install a furnace must have been 2007 and it was maybe a 75K btu goodman in a large home with air and all the ductwork and it came to $4500. Of course in all fairness, that guy did go bankrupt shortly after that and his home was foreclosed on.


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## DIYRemodeler

It would be great to have MORE DIYchatroom members weigh in on this question. Let's hear about more experiences with sites like HomeWyse. On the positive side, this could be useful feedback for them because they do have a nice website. However, in my most recent experience, I got multiple quotes for a tile job. My lowest quote came from a contractor who has a reputation in the area for good work and fair prices. The Homewyse estimate was 35% lower than his price. And let's not pick on HomeWyse. How are the estimates from other sites?? Same? Better? Worse?


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## mikeyp78

What are some of the other sites?


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## beenthere

DIYRemodeler said:


> It would be great to have MORE DIYchatroom members weigh in on this question. Let's hear about more experiences with sites like HomeWyse. On the positive side, this could be useful feedback for them because they do have a nice website. However, in my most recent experience, I got multiple quotes for a tile job. My lowest quote came from a contractor who has a reputation in the area for good work and fair prices. The Homewyse estimate was 35% lower than his price. And let's not pick on HomeWyse. How are the estimates from other sites?? Same? Better? Worse?


Any site that tries to show prices for work done. Is just throwing fuel on a fire. Most jobs can't be priced out without seeing the actual job site and scope of work that must be done.


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## jeffnc

I use the site occasionally as a reference for things I'm not too familiar with. I gauge it against things I am familiar with.

First you need to understand that this sort of undertaking is _inherently flawed_. Which is to say, it's impossible for any website to exist to report this accurately. It's not the flaw of the website or their intent, it's the nature of the business. As an analogy, let's say you were going to roll dice, and there was a website that tried to predict what number you'd roll? It simply isn't possible. That's an exaggeration, but it illustrates the point.

Having said that, there are some good things about the website. They do try to take into account tools, maintenance, materials and supplies needed for different jobs, and factor that into the equation. Also, the location is factored in, although how accurately that works, I can't really say. Also, entering the size of the job is very important, since smaller jobs cost more (per hour, per sf, etc) than larger jobs. It at least makes an attempt at this.

What it doesn't seem to do well is account for days on the job. For example, if a job takes 14 hours, then for a company, that job cost is basically going to be the same as a job that takes 16 hours, simply because he must reserve 2 days in either case. This isn't factored in. For another example, let's say you're doing a very small drywall job using normal drying compound. The total job hours might be 6, but if that has to be split up at 2 hrs/day for 3 days, it doesn't factor in how much it hurts to break up your day, and make 3 separate trips (gas, time, etc.)

Another flaw is that it takes a generic set of cost factors, and basically cut and paste them for every type of job. Let's take painting a room. It lists these things as not included - is this really relevant for a painter to paint your room? And as for taxes, that should go without saying - someone has to pay them at some point one way or another.


General contractor fees for organizing and supervising the Living Room Painting. Add 12.1% to 19.3% to the total cost above if a general contractor will supervise this project.
Sales tax on materials and supplies.
Permit or inspection fees (or portion therof) required by your local building department for your overall project.
Let's say tiling a floor. It estimates $20-25/sf for tiling 10 sf (including tile), and $6-$11 for tiling 100 sf and above. That sounds pretty reasonable.

Some calculations are confusing. For painting, what does sf represent? It doesn't say. Wall space or floor space? I'll assume floor space, since the cost for painting a 10x10 bedroom is in the $400-700 range. I can't imagine it would estimate higher than that ($2,000 if counting that as wall space.) In my area, I could never charge anywhere close to $700 to paint a bedroom, and $400 is high. The estimator figures 10 hours to paint that room. Any painter taking 10 hours to paint a bedroom is going to go hungry.


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## DIYRemodeler

Jeffnc...excellent analysis!! And excellent points made by everyone else! Let's hope this thread comes up every time a member (or newbie) searches on "Homewyse".


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## ToolSeeker

Let me first say I have never been on the website. But your last sentence brings up the question Is prep included and how much? If you mean just putting on paint then yes 10 hours is too long. But depending on prep, sanding, washing, spackle, spot prime, ect. then 10 hrs is not so unreasonable. Again I haven't been on site. Does this include the ceiling? Does it include the trim or just the walls? Is this 1 coat or 2?


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## jeffnc

Well, let's just say it takes 3 hours to paint a bedroom with 1 coat, and 6 hours for 2. That still leaves 4 hours for "prep". IMO, if it takes that long, then you have a lot wrong with the room, and more money should be added under the Drywall Repair category, or something. Since they have a separate category for ceiling and for trim, I'd assume it doesn't count those. But who knows? It might.


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## Live_Oak

You want a more accurate reporting of what different jobs costs? Then try Remodeling Magazine's Cost vs. Value Report. It doesn't break things down into piddly jobs, just overall projects. http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2014/


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## digitalplumber

HARRY304E said:


> That site exist to beat down contractors..:no:



Huh wonder why that is....?:thumbsup:


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## MESH

*Low But Consistent*



DIYRemodeler said:


> It is my personal experience that their estimates are not accurate. Not exactly sure how they get their data...but I suspect that their estimates are based on very small samples. Especially at the local levels. IMO I think you're better off asking a group of friends, neighbors or co-workers how much they paid and then averaging out to get your own ballpark estimate.


I find that they are low too, so what I have been doing, as a GC, is to get qouts on my own jobs from contractors I a familiar with their work quality and time to completion and find that in my area, if I multiply Homewyse estimate by 1.5, am usually in the ballpark +/- $20.00.:wink:

I find that they definitely do not take in to consideration the overhead cost

I am in MD... Collage Park area...


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## jeffnc

MESH said:


> I find that they are low too, so what I have been doing, as a GC, is to get qouts on my own jobs from contractors I a familiar with their work quality and time to completion and find that in my area, if I multiply Homewyse estimate by 1.5, am usually in the ballpark +/- $20.00.:wink:


That is some good info, thanks.



MESH said:


> I find that they definitely do not take in to consideration the overhead cost.


I suppose it depends on how you look at it. They do supply that extra figure I mentioned in my previous post, where for a GC you would add 20% or so. As I mentioned, I think that's just kind of silly, for a homeowner to hire a GC to paint their bedroom. That's something that any painter or at worst painting company can do by themselves, and I really don't see the need for a GC.

That's not to say that you, as a GC, should turn down painting jobs, and if you get one you should add your percent. I'm just saying that a lot of the jobs listed there don't really require GCs.

I once had a local handyman company give me a price to tile my bathroom. It's about 90sf. The quote was for $2,000. That was for labor only - I had to supply the tile, the thinset, the backerboard and screws, and grout. Now, as an individual contractor, my customers would choke on that price. Just imagine the overhead the company must be trying to overcome at $2,000! They had the guy who came out to evaluate, then the girl in the office who answers the phone, then the guy in the office who actually does the estimate and schedules "the help" (the guy who tiles, who probably get $12/hr.) I, on the other hand, would do all that myself, and charge less.


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## paintdrying

Those homewise prices are mostly a joke, even on the handyman market. No reputable company could give prices that low. Not to mention prices vary greatly from one area of town to the next. 
Out here on section of town is all cast iron pipe that is on its last leg. In the backyard of those homes are the newer section of town that is all abs pipe. Changing a toilet is different from those two regions


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## necalledmichael

Sounds like a lot of whiny contractors here who would rather be the first quote and snowball people, instead of the 2nd or third quote we ask for if the first one is ****ing ridiculous...the one where you pay your people the same $10-12, but pay for your mortgage...the numbers on Homewyse seem a little high, $60 a man hour is a lot....you make 40 an hour for owning the business, and doing nothing... your helper makes $20 at most, probably $10....


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## necalledmichael

*Wanna make more?*

Get more jobs if you want more money... only the fair will survive...


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## beenthere

necalledmichael said:


> Sounds like a lot of whiny contractors here who would rather be the first quote and snowball people, instead of the 2nd or third quote we ask for if the first one is ****ing ridiculous...the one where you pay your people the same $10-12, but pay for your mortgage...the numbers on Homewyse seem a little high, $60 a man hour is a lot....you make 40 an hour for owning the business, and doing nothing... your helper makes $20 at most, probably $10....


If a contractor has a full time employee that gets benefits(paid vacation time, paid holidays, insurance) and only charges 60 bucks an hour for that employee. And the employee makes 10 bucks an hour as his/her wage. Then the contractor makes a net profit of 40 bucks(a lot of expenses come with having an employee). But still has to make his/her business liability insurance payments, license fees, and other operating expenses. By the time its all said and done. The contractor gets to keep between 11 and 18 bucks of that 40 dollars net profit.


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## Colbyt

Never heard of the site before reading this thread but since I had a very expensive July and prices fresh in my mind I took a look and found their estimates to be excessively high for the zip code I entered. Almost twice as much as I paid for a 12 square roof with 2 layers to strip and the same held true for furnace and heat pump installs.

I know there are people charging those kinds of prices here but their numbers are not in my contractor to use database. And yes, my contractors for this type of work are always licensed and insured.


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## Daniel Holzman

Much of this thread confuses an estimate with a bid. An estimate is intended to be the cost for an average contractor to complete a job under average conditions. A web based estimate usually does not take into account job specific conditions, since of course the web site has never seen the job. The prudent contractor will always take into account circumstances that increase the difficulty or time of the project, such as the need to move furniture for a paint job, the condition of existing electrical wiring if it is a rewire project, etc.

In addition, the prudent contractor will adjust their bid to handle risk factors, assuming it is a fixed price contract. For example, there may be a risk that working hours are limited, unexpected site conditions may occur when a wall is opened, there could be material shortages etc.

And in the end, contractor bids will be driven to a large extent by competition. In a hot construction market such as in Boston right now, you are going to pay more (probably a lot more) for home construction projects than you would have three years ago when the market was dead. So even if the website provides a reasonable cost estimate, there is NO GUARANTEE you will find a competent, bonded, insured contractor prepared to bid the work at that price. To anyone who does not like the bids, I say welcome to capitalism, where you are free to solicit more bids on any project.


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## beenthere

Colbyt said:


> Never heard of the site before reading this thread but since I had a very expensive July and prices fresh in my mind I took a look and found their estimates to be excessively high for the zip code I entered. Almost twice as much as I paid for a 12 square roof with 2 layers to strip and the same held true for furnace and heat pump installs.
> 
> I know there are people charging those kinds of prices here but their numbers are not in my contractor to use database. And yes, my contractors for this type of work are always licensed and insured.


Where did you have the sliders set for the prices you got to seem high.


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## Colbyt

beenthere said:


> Where did you have the sliders set for the prices you got to seem high.



As correct for the situation as it existed, licensed, degree of difficulty etc.


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## beenthere

Colbyt said:


> As correct for the situation as it existed, licensed, degree of difficulty etc.


The thing about a site like that. A home owner may think something is easier or harder then it is. So the cost the site list may be fairly far off due to that.


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## Colbyt

Some might very well do that. I know a 6/12 pitched roof is considered and easy pitch. Heck even I could walk around one of those when I was younger.

As for the heat pump I'm pretty sure that installing one in a house with zero duct work is a bit more of a job that a 'moderate location change'.

I was a wee bit surprised at how long it took to install and insulate the trunks to the new standards.


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## beenthere

Colbyt said:


> Some might very well do that. I know a 6/12 pitched roof is considered and easy pitch. Heck even I could walk around one of those when I was younger.
> 
> As for the heat pump I'm pretty sure that installing one in a house with zero duct work is a bit more of a job that a 'moderate location change'.
> 
> I was a wee bit surprised at how long it took to install and insulate the trunks to the new standards.


Yeah, sometimes its not so easy to do them right.


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