# shingle roof leak and hurricane questions



## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

my roof leaks in several places. No one can find, not even the pros. I either need a complete new roof or a coating. Otherwise the roof looks fine. Two years ago, a 4 point inspection said it has 10 years life left. I did not tell them about the leaks. It was installed in 1994, so its not up to the latest hurricane standards. House built in 1952.

I have already installed rafter to block wall hurricane straps, secured the soffits, and gable end supports and used subfloor adhesive to attach the roof planks to the rafters and on the gable ends. Id like a new roof thats up to the latest hurricane standards, but a new roof is out of my budget. Im considering doing it myself, but i think its over my head. literally and figuratively.

I have several questions.

1-How well do those liquid roof coatings protect from leaking?

2-If I use a roof coating, can I secure the shingles to the planks with extra nails before I apply the coating?

3-What is the best material to fix spot leaks on a shingle roof? tar, silicone caulking, other?

4-I have tas100 approved ridge vents and suspect they are the source of some/all leaks. I did replace them myself on one of my ridges and noticed that the roofer who installed them with the last roof job (1994) did not follow manu instructions. When i replaced them, 2 leaks went away, two did not and now there is a third leak in that roof. The other two roofs have same ridge vents and one of those roofs leaks too. Since I still have leaks on the roof that i replaced the vents, i never replaced the other ones. Im considering finding a better quality ridge vent (but dont know how to asses), or I might just close up the openings and have no ridge vents. Suggestions/ideas?

5-Im also considering a metal roof. That i think i could install. Id need help from a qualified roofer and would find someone to help me. From what I have read, some metal roofs, like the metal shingles can last 50 to 100 years. I like that! Ive also read that some of the other metal roofs are not every strong against hurricanes. Your thoughts?

If I do #1 above, I will also replace or close off the ridge vents (#4 above).

Ive lived in this house since 1986 and plan on living here for the rest of my life, so i want a roof that lasts and that i dont have to worry about. Id like to feel sucure against hurricanes too. Im ok with yearly inspections and upkeep, especially if I can do it myself.

Every once in a while a plank to rafter 8d nail pokes up thru the shingles. Since 1986 I inspect yearly and seal up these holes. Which is why i asked about good shingle patching compound above. (#3)

thanks much for any advice. The rainy season is about over, so i need to get busy.

p


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

#1 Add your location to your profile, just go to quick links to edit.
#2 No shingle roof done right needs any form or "patching" except on any exposed nails head on the ends of a ridge.
Post some pictures of this roof for far better reply's.
Installing roof vents is roofing 101, if there leaking something's very wrong and a picture will clear it all up.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

florida


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Joe is right on all counts, as usual. Now go back and take some close up shots of the ridge, the eaves and all conditions that you feel are causing problems. Its hard to tell what you have, and what is going on due to the distance from which you shot the posted images. There is a lot of debris on your roof, and Bricks???? 

The best value in the steep roofing business is, and always has been asphalt shingles. When properly installed, with a good underlayment, no pooky, coating, or anything else is needed to make them work.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

jagans said:


> Jand Bricks????
> 
> The best value in the steep roofing business is, and always has been asphalt shingles. When properly installed, with a good underlayment, no pooky, coating, or anything else is needed to make them work.


yes bricks holding tarps in place.

Im aware that no patching/coating would be needed if everything was right. Im not dealing with a "should be" here though.

I have a shallow pitch, 2/12 I think.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks,

I would not have a ridge vent on a roof with a 2/12 slope. You have architectural shingles. These shingles should not be used under 4/12 slope, especially if high winds are expected. A lot of guys that post here will go as low as 2/12 with three tabs. IMHO They are wrong. The NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual says 4/12 for a reason. The reason is based on a couple of hundred years of experience. They may not leak 9 times out of ten, but that tenth time is the one that really gets you.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

where can i find NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual?

tks

pa


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Just google NRCA, ( National Roofing Contractors Association ) go to bookstore. Any roofer worth their salt owns these books. They used to have a book called HARK = Handbook of Accepted Roofing Knowledge. Not sure if they still do, but it was a very good book.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you know how to measure the pitch of a roof? That roof is steeper then what your suggesting.
http://roofgenius.com/roofpitch.htm


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Do you know how to measure the pitch of a roof? That roof is steeper then what your suggesting.
> http://roofgenius.com/roofpitch.htm


Yeah, in going back to look at the pictures, Joe is right. Looks to be about 3.5-4/ 12 I wish you would post some close ups, though. Your shingles look really dried out, unless thats the light playing tricks. I do not see any roof jack on the service entrance pipe, I see one area that looks like someone spilled a solvent on the roof, and it looks like I see black drip tracing coming out from under the drip edge at the eaves, but its hard to tell with these photos.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm not seeing any over hang on the shingles on the gables.
Since you have that ridge vent covered in plastic I'd guess that's where you think it's leaking.
First thing I'd look at is how far someone cut the sheathing back at the peak.
I believe it was supposed to be no more then 2" on each side.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

st pete florida

49" from peak to bottom edge of shingles and 153" from same edge to peak. see pic


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

center ridge no leaks


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

latest nail that came up thru shingles. removed and patched


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

branch damage patched. It leaked again a few years later, so put more patching on it several times, but kept leaking. This time it was the ridge vent that was leaking. replaced the ridge vents last year on this roof (rear roof) and the leak stopped.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

other end rear roof. arrow points towards patch in last pic. X is where another leak is. This other leak was not fixed when vents replaced. both vents this rear roof replaced last year.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

shingles wearing out


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

other side rear roof, two X where two leaks are. these leaks not fixed when vents replaced last year.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

other view rear roof. arrow points toward that big patch from branch (other pic). these vents the ones replaced last year.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

same roof


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

more missing


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

another section


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

front roof. two x where leaks are. these vents not replaced.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

damage? No leak.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

wear?


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

other view front roof leak


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

other view rear roof leak


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

previously mentioned branch patch


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Those shingles are shot and need to be replaced.
The granules have all washed off long ago and there bare areas showing. 
No ones mentioned this before while there where working on the roof?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Where to start...?

Roof is smoked and needs to come off. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there is more than enough wrong with the roof and the actual shingles that it needs to go.

Granules are coming off in droves.

Appears that you have a mix of dimensionals and 3-tabs from one of the pictures but 

Patch is dead wrong.

Pitch is too low for a standard application shingle. By the numbers, you are under a 4:12 and there is no shingle manufacturer that will warranty that against leaks.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> Pitch is too low for a standard application shingle. By the numbers, you are under a 4:12 and there is no shingle manufacturer that will warranty that against leaks.


so what type of roof should i get?

these shingles were 40 year shingles. I paid extra for that.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

3.84/12 my math.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

How old is that roof?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

If you want something that is going to be permanent, spend the money on metal.

No matter the manufacturer, asphalt is not going to do well or have an enforceable warranty on it at that pitch and with that amount of overhanging vegetation.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> How old is that roof?


installed 1994


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> If you want something that is going to be permanent, spend the money on metal.


see my point #5


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

These shingles are toast. Time for new shingles. Tear all off, Inspect and repair deck where needed, Use good underlayment ASTM D226 Type 1 felt, and a good three tab 30 year minimum shingle and you will be fine. Install all ventilated soffits and a good ridge vent.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

With that pitch and vegetation, I would go with metal.

Metal is better against wind lift as compared to shingles too.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

jagans said:


> These shingles are toast. Time for new shingles. Tear all off, Inspect and repair deck where needed, Use good underlayment ASTM D226 Type 1 felt, and a good three tab 30 year minimum shingle and you will be fine. Install all ventilated soffits and a good ridge vent.


my 40 year shingles lasted 19 years. I want my next full roof job to out live me. Im 52 yo. Soffits are vented. Im still considering closing the ridge vents. Unless I can find a much better ridge vent to install.

im still not sure that a good thick coating or three wont get me another 5 years.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> With that pitch and vegetation, I would go with metal.
> 
> Metal is better against wind lift as compared to shingles too.


I need specifics. ive read that some metal roofs are junk. Wont out live me. Wont withstand a hurricane, prone to leaking after some years, etc.

I just measured the pitch on one of the roofs. Its 3.84/12.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

There is junk in every sect of building material out there, but, by in large, metal will outperform and outlast asphalt.

What look do you want?


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

20 years is a long time for a 40 year roof to last. A standing seam roof with cleats on 8"center should survive a cat 4 hurricane. Go 6"oc to be safe. 

BTW, that linb damaged area was never repaired. Somebody just slapped some kinda department store stuff on it. A repair would have lasted 20 years.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Matter of fact, on second thought, I'd cover the plywood with 1x6's screwed into the rafters. The wood will give 80% more holding power than osb or plywood.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> What look do you want?


i dont care.


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

tinner666 said:


> Matter of fact, on second thought, I'd cover the plywood with 1x6's screwed into the rafters. The wood will give 80% more holding power than osb or plywood.


what plywood? If and when the roof cover is removed, Id planned to use 9d shank nails to hold the planks to the rafters. Screws would be stronger.

does there need to be air space between the metal and the planks?

p


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm expecting you to find plywood. If it's wood, you're good to go.
Screws hold better. Airspace isn't necessary, but MBCI offers some extended cleats that provide 1/4" to 3/8" airspace. 24 ga. metal is preferred.


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## eharri3 (Jul 31, 2013)

There is a reason why roofers minimize the amount of cement and caulk they use on installs. Excessive amounts of gunk on a roof traps water and forces it under shingles, creating more leaks. That is why people who attack roof leaks with big mounds of caulk, cement, and tar usually have new leaks develop right after their 'repair' work.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Blatant, gross generalizations about which roof system will survive high wind events without even knowing what the substrate, or method of attachment, is kind of ridiculous. Wind resistance is only as good as the weakest link. 

If I was to use a metal roof where you are, I would use a batten seam system, so I could remove and replace panels damaged by tree fall. Use a galvanized steel panel with a 70% Polyvinylidene fluoride, or polyvinylidene difluoride (PVDF) paint coating, (Kynar 500, it's like band aid) and use the number of clips recommended by the manufacturer for the anticipated wind speed. The clips should be screwed down with square drive minimum No. 12 fasteners at two per clip into a sound substrate. Follow Tinners advice for spacing, and run panels from eaves to ridge continuous.

Google MetFab A good friend of mine started that company and he knew his chit. :thumbsup:


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## paulmars (Feb 27, 2009)

met-fab.com ?


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

paulmars said:


> met-fab.com ?


Yes www.met-fab.com

You can check out their construction details even if you buy from a local provider near you. The key is 24 gage Kynar if steel, .040" if Aluminum. There are a lot of Metal Systems on the market, though.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

jagans said:


> Blatant, gross generalizations about which roof system will survive high wind events without even knowing what the substrate, or method of attachment, is kind of ridiculous. Wind resistance is only as good as the weakest link.


Agreed....I will still take metal over asphalt any day if the substrate is solid.

I love that you are the post police though....:laughing:


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Windows on Wash said:


> Agreed....I will still take metal over asphalt any day if the substrate is solid.
> 
> I love that you are the post police though....:laughing:


Comes from experience. You should see how some of the roofs that I have done forensic work on were fastened down. Clips fastened to 1/2 inch OSB 4 ft. on center with one roofing nail. 24 inch wide panel. 

Metal is great as long as the designer and installer know that it moves a lot, and how to handle that movement. Only educated people know how to do that. Again a gross generalization, but I have not met many residential roofers that spend much time in the Library. :wink:

Ill turn in my badge.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)




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