# The new bathroom



## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Hmm, a little ambitious for me. 
A couple of thoughts- Be sure to but a good base under the tub such as masons mortar 
I don't do much tile but it seems to me if you do the floor first, you can't walk on it until it's dry. So how can you proceed with the wall tile right away? I've seen a lot of tile setters do the walls first- floor last.
Are you planning to tile behind the vanity or hang it first and tile to it?


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for the input, it wouldn't be difficult to put the floor in last or at least after the shower is tiled, giving the floor enough time set. 

No tile behind the vanity, if I have enough left over mosaic tile I will put in a little bit of a backsplash.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No mention of how old this place is or what type plumbing you have.
Depending on how old the shower contol is I'd also plan on replacing that.
Old steel supplys or old cast iron drains need to go.
You can almost bet the drain will not line up, your going to need a differant drain assembly most likly since your going to use a taller tub.
They sell a kit that is adjustable to fit.
Always do the floors last!
You just turn the tub on it's side to get it through the doorways.
I always remove the door on the room I'm working in so it does not get damaged.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

It will never get done in 5 days. Took 6 weeks of work to do mine, my neighbor next door took about the same, and that was continuous work on both of us having them done.

Five days, you may be able to change out the toilet, sink & cabinet, paint, change out fixtures, but not a total gut and redo.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

You worked continuously for 6 weeks on 1 bathroom?


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

joecaption said:


> No mention of how old this place is or what type plumbing you have.
> Depending on how old the shower contol is I'd also plan on replacing that.
> Old steel supplys or old cast iron drains need to go.
> You can almost bet the drain will not line up, your going to need a differant drain assembly most likly since your going to use a taller tub.
> ...


Sorry, here are some more details. 

Place is only 6 years old, copper plumbing. The water valve is a moen, so I'm just planning on changing the trim. The soaker tub is obviously larger then the existing tub, so the valve will be raised about 4 inches. I've already got the new drain assembly for the tub.

I get what you're saying about turning the tub sideways to get it in the door BUT the room is exactly 60" wide, and the tub is 60" wide. Not possible to turn the new tub and install it. The closet wall will be a tub tunnel. This is on the second floor of my house, the trusses span the length of the house and the wall is not structural. The interior walls are on 24" center so only 1 stud will be trimmed temporarily.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Dutchrudder said:


> You worked continuously for 6 weeks on 1 bathroom?


Part was waiting for the base cabinet for three weeks, three days of gutting the room, a day of prepping, two days for plumbing, electrical and a day for the surround install. Then there was two days for tile work, a week for drywall & painting. Plus going to work on those days that I did not work on it.

My neighbor's, it was their guy working on it five days a week, some days shorter, some longer, but still theirs took the same time. Baths & Kitchens are not something you can rush through, no matter what you see on tv. You will end up looking like one of those episodes of Renovation Realities on DIY.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Well I've got 7 days off. My remodel schedule is 5.5, but I've got an extra day and a half buffer. Everything is purchased but paint, if it takes me over 7 days to replace a tub, vanity, floor and wall tiles... I'll be very disappointed in myself. This is a bathroom with 25sqf of floor, including the space the toilet and vanity take up, it's tiny. There is no electrical work besides changing the vanity light fixture. The only plumbing is the tub drain and moving the valve 4 inches higher. The tiling is going to be the only challenge in this remodel, only because I haven't tiled before.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If you remover some drywall you can get the tub in by letting the shirt tip into the open stud bay---

I just placed a cast iron Mendota soaker into a 5 foot wide room---

Demo doesn't include drywall?----

You mentioned demoing the soffit above the tub---I didn't see that in your work order---

With a helper---you might make it in 7 days----No electrical up grades? Fan/light combo? Switches and outlets where you want them?

Need blocking in the wall for that vanity? Vessel sink? Drain high enough?

I can pull off a full gut with a highly trained assistant in 10 to 14 working days---

Just tub--plumbing---drywall patching---rock/ tile and vanity--mirror--lights --base molding---door reducer---paint---shower curtain---assorted trim---I just don't know how fast you work---


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## funfool (Oct 5, 2012)

problem I see is Day 1, removing the bulkhead.
Everyone has their own ideas about a bulkhead, I am thinking is a dropped ceiling or a chase. 
This is extra work and usually done for a reason, Will find ductwork or plumbing, electrical in it.
And I do not see a schedule for drywall repairs and mud. Takes time for the product to dry.
Using hot mud, I can get 2 coats of hot mud, 1 coat of topping on in 1 day, in a small room like that.
That is really pushing it hard, And with all the moisture and drying going on ... cross fingers and hope does not shrink and crack by morning.
Then you want to paint as soon as is ready for it. Saves time masking and covering new floors and cutting in around tile ... is big time saver to paint first. then after all work is done, touch up the bumps and scratches you created while working.

The tile will take longer, possibly 3 days. You want to do the shower walls first.
The first course is a time killer. The tub by design is not level for drainage.
You need to find the low spot, measure up for a full tile of whatever size tile being used. Then with a level, draw a line all the way around tub.
You start with a full tile, then you cut each tile to the line you drew.
Will need to shim the tile, usually the cardboard box the tile came in small strips folded in 1/2 gives about 1/4" and makes good shims.
First course is critical and time consuming.
Now what size tile will it be?
A 4"x4" self spacing tile is ok, but they butt against each other. Meaning, you can install a few courses the first day, but first course needs to dry to support the weight above that will be sitting on it.
Day 2 you can finish it off.
A 6"x6" tile with a 3/16" grout line is nice to work with. Looks nice and gives a little more fudge factor with the grout line to keep things going straight, you can use a roofing nail to support tile as you go up the wall. Also tile spacers, butt a occasional nail to support the tile while drying is a good option.

Then there is the plumbing wall with shower valve and shower head. If possible, you want to level a line down the center of them, this way you have a grout line there and can use tile saw to cut from edge of tile, just nibble out what you need.
Works well if you have a single handle shower valve, if you have a 3 handle .... is going to slow you down, something to think about when you start the first course of tile.
Once you tile that shower, it will take longer then you think, floor will be a cake walk and while tile drying on walls, you can cut the floor tiles and install them in a couple hours before quitting for the day, walk on them next morning.

No, you wont finish in 5.5 days, you will have majority of work done, but still a few days to go ... depends on your skill set and how much beer is available.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

I've done several bathrooms including tile in our current/past houses and I'd say it's too optimistic since you've never tiled before. It is doable, but tight. Just things like trips to the store for odds/ends you don't have take up a lot of time, even at our new house which is less than 2 miles to both a HD and Lowes.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Appreciate all the advice and input, keep it coming.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

funfool said:


> Everyone has their own ideas about a bulkhead, I am thinking is a dropped ceiling or a chase.
> This is extra work and usually done for a reason, Will find ductwork or plumbing, electrical in it.
> And I do not see a schedule for drywall repairs and mud.


Good point. Investigated the bulkhead today and it's empty. Just a dropped ceiling, maybe so the builder uses less tile, I don't know. Remember this is the top floor of my house. so there is no HVAC running through my attic or plumbing in the ceiling. 

The tile I'm using is 4X16 white gloss for the bath, and the floor is 8X24 porcelain that looks like slate. The shower will get a row of mosaic and I'm contemplating doing the ceiling in the mosaic. We'll see how this progresses. 

The dry wall repair. Well there wont be much I hope. The only walls in the bathroom that will be damaged will be covered in cement backer and then kerdi membrane. The wall in the closet that will be cut to access the tub will be a quick repair. I'll patch the hole with 1/2" drywall and then I'm going to run a sheet of 1/4" drywall up the entire back of the closet, since it's 4' wide it will be one nice clean sheet. The corners I'm not going to mud, I'll put some quarter round up them. So I'll just have to cover the screws, prime and paint. That's the plan anyway. 

Again I appreciate all the thoughts so far.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Dutchrudder said:


> Well I've got 7 days off. My remodel schedule is 5.5, but I've got an extra day and a half buffer. Everything is purchased but paint, if it takes me over 7 days to replace a tub, vanity, floor and wall tiles... I'll be very disappointed in myself.


Then prepare for disappointment. While not a pro, I have done a lot of remodeling, and my wife and I built our current house almost entirely by ourselves. The schedule you expect follow only works on reality tv home shows. There is always something that crops up.

A case in point: I replaced the tub with a fancy corner shower in one of my bathroom renos. The wife had seen the thing on the internet and just had to have it though it cost over $1200. She even drove to Phladelphia (5 hours away) to pick it up. When I went to install the pan and connect the plumbing, I discovered that the drain fitting was metric! That alone set things back several days.


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## scottktmrider (Jul 1, 2012)

And to think people say contractors charge too much.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Regardless if you are completed or not you will still be the hero in her eyes. Its a great idea and a fantastic surprise for her. Very thoughtful. I hope she doesn't find out early.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

during prep and before putting tile down screw down the subfloor good so there is no possibility of squeaks and cracks later..


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## wwkayaker (May 13, 2012)

Good luck. I wish you the best of luck. I am just finishing up my bathroom Reno and it has taken me a lot longer than I anticipated and I have done a bathroom remodel once before. I thought I knew what to expect but, the mess I found when I opened walls, etc was not something I expected.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Day 1 is done. I got in about 7 hours of work with a couple set backs, but in the end I finished on or even a bit ahead of schedule. 

Demo is complete and the new tub is installed. The floor tile was a real PITA to get off! I beat the living hell out of my wonder bar but in the end I won. Took about an hour just to remove the floor tile. The wall tile was easier. I took my sawzall and cut through the bulkhead, right through the ceramic tiles, dry wall, cement board, and framing. Then I just ripped the ceiling down, after that I could get my hands behind the cement board on the walls and I just pulled it off in 4 big pieces. Tub popped right out. 

The best news is that I got to start one day sooner than planned. My decided to take the kids to the inlaw a day earlier. 

Plumbing, because the tub is so much deeper I had to move the thermostatic valve up about 6 inches, and because I took out the dropped ceiling the shower valve is now 6 inches higher, and I'm for sure happy with this because I'm 6'2". I raised everything but putting in sections of 5" copper pipe and joining them with shark bite fittings. I know that I'll take some flak for this but I'm just not confident in my soldering skills. Also shark bite fittings pass code here, even for natural gas. Good enough for gas, good enough for the chicks I went with. 

PICS:


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Forgot to mention. 

Tomorrow's agenda. Install cement board, kerdi membrane, and the ditra floor membrane. Then I'll head to home depot for paint and some dry wall repair stuff. I'll likely assemble the vanity and figure out how I'm going to run the drain for the sink, right now it's coming out of the side wall, so I'm thinking of lowering it just below the vanity and then running it on the outside of the wall to the back of the vanity, wont be visible unless you're laying on the floor.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Keep up the good work.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Day two is complete. The day started late, again, around noon. Ended up having to go to work for a bit. I also took a couple steps backwards before I started to make some progress.

I decided to pull the tub out, it wasn't perfectly level, I thought it was good enough but I didn't want to finish this project and then say: huh... good enough sure sucks. So the tub came out, then I decided to redo the drain plumbing, I had just scabbed some pieces together to extend the drain and over flow but opted for a $17 kit today and made it look all perfect and fit even better. 

The tub is now in for the count, stainless screws into the studs and all. Then up went the cement backer board, tough to do when you're solo. Got it all done and then dropped the ceiling 1.5", I'll finish the front with mosaic tile. Then came the real challenge. The kerdi membrane... Oh my, youtube makes it look so simple. 

The first sheet was close to a disaster, but I believe I salvaged it. A little dry on the mix + cement board, well the thinset was drying pretty quick and I was moving as fast as I could. The other two walls were much better, I had a little wetter thin set and then I pre-wet the walls with a sponge, I felt like a pro.

Then I did the ceiling, humbled again in my thinset shower. But it's done, looks like it'll keep the water off the walls. That is all I managed to do today. Tomorrow I will start tiling the tub walls. I figured I finished the kerdi about 8pm so tomorrow by noon should be good to tile? 16 hours give or take. I'm hoping to get the shower walls done tomorrow, if I get the ceiling done too I will be very happy. 

On another note, I'm tired. 

pic:


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

You'll get it, just keep jumping those hurdles and keep us updated how it goes.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Any chance you fly for a living superjett?


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Nah, last name is Jett and I used to ride a Yamaha Super Jet (standup jetski). I have 4 friends that fly for UPS, does that count?


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

4 friends for UPS, that's a good gig. I'm a captain at an airline in Canada, pretty solid job.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Tiling my shower has now become my Everest. Wow, new respect. After almost 6 hours of work I'm almost %30 done. I'm at the point where I'm going to put my first band of mosaic. I needed to stop for dinner and to walk to dog. I'm hoping to get most of the tiling done in the bathtub today, but I sure am glad I got a 1 day head start. 

Update:


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Tile looks good for someone who's never done it before.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Well I got a bit of a second wind after dinner, managed a couple more rows including the first row of mosaic tiles. I think it looks pretty good so far. Thoughts? Any tips to help speed things up? I'm thinking realistically the tub will be done tiling by tomorrow afternoon, I'm pretty tired.








I also managed to get the front wall up to the same point as the rest. Everything is pretty much dead level and the spacing looks real good. My luck they'll all fall off over the night!


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

So, are you for hire to finish the Kitchen job that I started two years ago. Look at it this way. You now have something to show off your skills, and be proud of, even thought the wife may go Umph after seeing.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

Dutchrudder said:


> I raised everything but putting in sections of 5" copper pipe and joining them with shark bite fittings. I know that I'll take some flak for this but I'm just not confident in my soldering skills.


I know you're already done and have moved on, but, for anyone else reading this thread for inspiration, you can join copper without soldering by using compression fittings. I trust compression far more than Sharkbites.

Although to be fair, Sharkbite on copper is probably more reliable than on Pex that's gonna wiggle every time the water is turned on or off.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

tylernt said:


> I know you're already done and have moved on, but, for anyone else reading this thread for inspiration, you can join copper without soldering by using compression fittings. I trust compression far more than Sharkbites.
> 
> Although to be fair, Sharkbite on copper is probably more reliable than on Pex that's gonna wiggle every time the water is turned on or off.


Sure, compression fittings, or copper couplings, or presoldered couplings, or sharkbite. I was originally going to go with presoldered couplings but decided sharkbite would be faster and just as good. I was told that Sharkbite fittings pass code here for water AND gas, good enough for gas then good enough for me I guess.

Last two days have been pretty tedious. I spent the entire day putting together my vanity, opening up walls to make it possible to secure the vanity, changing the drain lines in the wall, and prepping for paint. Everything is ready for the vanity, just have to hang it and plumb it. Tomorrow morning I'm going paint the walls, hoping to start the floor tile install around 2pm. Once the floor tiles have setup I'll grout everything, install the toilet and vanity, new trim and then... well then I hav e this entire disaster of a house to clean up. Told my wife to stay at her folks for another day. So this reno started a day early and I predict will end a day late. Tiling the shower was a much bigger job than I had anticipated. New respect. 










Moving the drain, had to extend it into the corner and get it above the central vacuum line. Still about 8" below the trap. 









Dry wall is all patched.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

tylernt, show proof in writing that Sharkbite type fittings have failed on Pex? The connection is only as good as the person making it.

Right now, the expected lifespan for Sharkbite type fittings are exceeding the ten years , since they have been in use.

I will tell you this, that Watts are more of a pain in the ass than actual licensed Shark bites, in how they work.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

DutchRudder- I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your plumbing is not good. Because you offset vertically to miss the vac line you now risk having your trap siphon dry when used. It would be much better if you stayed at the original height and used 2- 45's to turn out the wall to miss the vac line.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> tylernt, show proof in writing that Sharkbite type fittings have failed on Pex?


I have no proof. The design just makes me uneasy -- but I don't want to turn this into a Sharkbite debate thread. We now return you to Dutchrudder's regularly scheduled program.


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

TheEplumber said:


> DutchRudder- I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your plumbing is not good. Because you offset vertically to miss the vac line you now risk having your trap siphon dry when used. It would be much better if you stayed at the original height and used 2- 45's to turn out the wall to miss the vac line.


Explain Eplumber. It looks OK to me. I am trying to learn so i don't make the same mistake on a future project.

B


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Is the issue with the drain that it goes to p-trap then down again before hitting the vent? If that's the case, in real life application for this setup I doubt it would ever fill that line up from a vanity drain to cause a siphon to empty the trap.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Just in between paint coats here and checking up on my thread. Sharkbite Vs anything else will be an on going debate for ever, so leave it at that. 

The drain plumbing. I'm very doubtful that this set up will siphon the trap. The trap sits about 8" higher and 16" to the right of splash mountain. I couldn't go around the central vac line because the vanity sits tight in that corner, I couldn't notch the vanity because it has drawers inside, which is why I needed to move the plumbing tight against the back wall (only 3.5" of room in the back for plumbing). On another note, anyone ever plumb in an Ikea vanity. 1 1/4" to 1 1/2... sounds simple but the ikea plumbing is wicked thin. I ended up going with one of those adapters you would put on the top of a trap and the sink drain feeds straight into it, with a nut you turn to tighten... Oh god just listening to myself try and explain this is painful. I'll take pics tomorrow when it's installed with the flooring. 

One question. How long will I have to wait before I can walk on my floor? I'm hoping 24 hours is enough time. It will be laid on Ditra.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Walls are painted and the floor is down. I figure 24 hours until I can walk on the tiles. So I finished installing them around 6pm... so late, but had some problems as always. Tomorrow will be spent cleaning up this house, taking the trailer to the dump, then at 6 or 7 I'll roll into the bathroom and gout the floor, install the vanity, install the last few tub tiles, install the back splash, toilet, and trim. The following day I'll grout the tub. In the home stretch now.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Yes, that is a lamp on my toilet flange...


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Itching to get into the bathroom today, I figured waiting 24 hours was sufficient for the floor tiles to set up... but after about 20 hours I decided that would be enough, you know cause I'm so smart and wise. I was standing in the corner where the vanity will go and I swear I could feel the tile move a little bit. I crept off the floor and decided I'll wait the full 24 hours before getting started. Patience... Patience. Question tough, if the tiles are not grouted, and are applied over ditra, will they move even the slightest? I hope I didn't screw anything up, if I did it wont be the end of the world, the tiles I stood on are under the vanity and will never have another person stand on them again, well until they take out the vanity.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Alright... I'm pretty much done. All I have left to do is grout the tub area and buy a different mirror. The one I picked up is horrible, to big.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

:thumbup:


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Couple pics of the mostly finished bathroom. Finished enough that my wife will be amazed I think. The tub is going to look great when it's all grouted. 


Now that the mirror is hung, I like it and am going to keep it. 









All moen hardware too. 









You can kinda see the vanity. really small space, feels much bigger now.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

BRAVO :clap::clap:


Looks great. She's a very lucky woman. Handy, handsome, thoughtful and a pilot.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Excellent, it looks great and I think the combination of tile/vanity styles looks good together.

So does she know at all?


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

She knows now! Totally blown away, can't wait to do the master bath... Maybe in a few months, I'm pretty bagged!


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## HandiMandy (May 30, 2010)

Well done! And I have taken a year to reinstall my outlet covers after painting.


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## dukes32 (Nov 30, 2010)

Project looks great. I just finished gutting my 5x8 bathroom yesterday. Tub comes out tomorrow, running electrical installing vent fan and new lighting as well tomorrow. 

How easy/difficult was installing the new tub along with the drain and waster overflow pipes? The plumbing for the tub is the only part of this project I am a bit apprehensive about. All other electrical, plumbing for the toilet, mixing valves for shower, and supply lines for sink I am confortable with. I have off work starting tomorrow until 1/2...so the plan in so hit it hard everyday and hopefully be able to use my toilet and shower by next week. Since I only have one bathroom...time is of the essence. 

Great work on your bathroom!


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

The tub plumbing is pretty simple, I bought a kit for $17 from Home Depot, measure measure measure, then cut and dry fit. I actually Valle the tub manufacturer and they gave me all the measurements. Then just make sure the gaskets are on correctly. 

I actually had more problems plumbing my vanity drain than my tub. Just tackle one thing at a time. 

For my next project I think I'm going to use the kerdi board instead of membrane... Well, it'll come down to the price I guess.


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## Dutchrudder (Dec 6, 2012)

Here are a couple photos of the finished product, grouted and done. 


















Just starting to get organized for the en suite. This project will be more difficult. The current en suite has a stand up shower, the shower is horrible and small, framed in with no glass and makes the bathroom appear much smaller than it actually is. I want to take the one wall of the shower out, move the plumbing to an interior wall, and replace the removed wall with a glass panel. I'm sure I'm horrible at describing what I want to do, pics will follow and it will make more sense. 

I've been impressed with the shark bite fittings so far. I know it's only been a few months but I haven't had a problem. Actually this spring when I went to turn on the outside faucets I noticed that one of the shut off valves inside the home was leaking very badly, so I replaced it with a shark bite one. This is nice because I am able to see it, it's been a few weeks and not a sign of water - which is what I expected. 

I did have some problems with my new bathroom. As you know I used the schluter stuff on the floor when I re-tiled it, I suspect this brought the floor height up about 1/4". When I reinstalled the toilet I used a standard sized wax gasket. This gasket did not seal properly, and I only noticed it when I was playing with my daughter in the living room. A very small, very faint, water stain was starting in my living room ceiling. First thing I thought was that the shark bit fittings were failing, and I was mad. I measured where the stain was and checked the bathroom, all signs pointed to the toilet. When I removed the toilet it was wet around the drain. I got the larger size gasket and haven't had any further issues. The water stain is only noticeable if it's pointed out - I'll likely just touch this up with paint. I did drill a small hole in the ceiling, no water was present so I'm not overly concerned.


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