# Thinking of Behr Premium Plus deck/fence stain - good?



## slickshift

I've used the deck stains
They really are that bad


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## curls00

I've also been eyeing the Cabot ($$$) and the Sico ($) stains. The Sico looks to be really nice and got good reviews on Consumer Reports I believe. Anyone have experience with the Sico semi-transparent stain (not the protector but the stain)?


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## sestivers

I used the Behr stain with the 4-year (I thought it was 5-year) warranty. After two years, my tenants claimed that the deck needed to be re-stained. I lived in Japan at the time so I did not inspect it myself. It is very possible that my tenants were partly to blame for it wearing out so fast (their dogs essentially lived on the deck), but I'd say there are probably better products available.

To add insult to injury, my tenants picked a $H!tty color to re-stain the deck.


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## JTM

*Behr Deck stain - hardly worth it*

So I broke down and finally had a deck installed on the house. Clear cedar. After the first year I went into Home Depot and they recommended a deck wash and Behr stain for the deck. APPLYING IT TO MY DECK WAS THE WORST THING I COULD HAVE DONE. It is now about 12 months since I washed and stained the deck. There is not one square foot of the deck that the stain is not peeling off. I would not recommend Behr deck stain to anyone regardless of the project. Its not even something I would suggest for a shed or a dog house. The job I have ahead of me now is overwhelming. Stairs, Railings, Spindals, verticle surfaces, horizontal surfaces, I am telling you that there is not one square foot that is not peeling. At this point I cannot use the deck until I restore it. I made another mistake of sitting out on the deck to have lunch. There was a good breeze that day but still a beautiful day. As I sat there eating, I found paint chips on my plate. The breeze regardless of how slight is still strong enough to get the peeling stain chips airborn, and what goes up must come down. The airborn chips found their way on to my plate, forget about what was all over my clothing. Behr deck stain is the biggest joke on the market. I almost feel like suing them but I am sure that is throwing good money after bad. It is not worth the time, money or investment in labor to buy it and use it. It might make a good paper weight or anchor but as far as a long lasting stain, less then 12 months is not what I would call long lasting.


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## shasta37

You might get 18 mos. out of the Behr Premium, like me. Regardless of all the touts for competing products, this is a highly tough application, and whether it's Penofin, Cabot, Messemer's, etc, ...don't count on anything over 2 yrs. durability.

Horizontal wood decking is the ultimate in maintenance requirements, and nothing out there is good for years and years.


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## JTM

*Point well taken*

Point well taken shasta37. However I am talking less then 1 year which falls well within the stipulation that Behr makes about their long lasting product. I am in construction, have an engineering degree, and nothing I have ever built or painted from homes, remodels, or furniture lasts less then one year. The Behr product is garbage.



shasta37 said:


> You might get 18 mos. out of the Behr Premium, like me. Regardless of all the touts for competing products, this is a highly tough application, and whether it's Penofin, Cabot, Messemer's, etc, ...don't count on anything over 2 yrs. durability.
> 
> Horizontal wood decking is the ultimate in maintenance requirements, and nothing out there is good for years and years.


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## shasta37

Behr, at my HD, has 2 levels of stain. My experience is with Behr Premium.

I've had Cabot devlop more mildew than cheap cheese. I've had Penofin wear off on leading edges of stair steps; to say nothing of the VOC oder.

Not to diminsh your horrible experience, but do you think there's any possibility of excessive moisture prior to your staining? Did you check w/ a moisture meter?

(Re: which I regret not testing on my new Ipe deck and con heart redwood fencing. In such a hurry to get the green redwood painted, it has developed many moisture bubbles and pitch pocket streaks. The Ipe is fine except it shrinks like hell in the lateral dimension.

The initial app of Messemer's hardwood stain lasted about 3 months before pretty much fading away. Time for a re-coat.)


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## curls00

Hey everyone.

So I decided on the Sico semi-transparent stain, and as I said before, it has got a lot of great reviews.

So, now I'm looking at prepping the deck, as well as timelines.

I have the Sico crystallized cleaner granules (mix w/ water, spray on, wait, scrub, rinse off thoroughly).

I am questioning the need to fully sand the entire deck w/ 80-grit, however. Since the wood is new (less than 1 year old, no greying or mildew, etc), is sanding the ENTIRE deck necessary? I was planning on using my palm sander to do the areas that have a few splinters/feathering, and for the wood branding labels, but overall this is a miniscule amount of work compared to sanding the entire deck. IS SANDING 100% NECESSARY?

Also, in terms of timelines, it was a long, snowy winter here. When can I stain this deck as to not have too much moisture in the wood? I am fairly sure the can of stain says it can be applied on damp wood, but I realize it's probably better on dry wood. Should I wait until mid-summer? Or maybe for after the next set of 3-4 warm (75*F+) days when the sun is out to dry the wood? (I know not to stain in the sun).

Thanks everyone.


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## slickshift

The coatings manufacturer has absolutely no desire whatsoever to place un-important time consuming directions on their product
It lessens the value of the product, and they absolutely lose sales due to excessive instructions
The contractors don't want to charge more, and the DIYers get scared by them

The directions would not be there unless it was absolutely important for the proper application, longevity, durability, warranty, etc...

That doesn't mean someone might not "get away with" skipping something, it just means you are on your own and your chance of dissatisfaction and/or product failure has dramatically increased

Follow the instructions


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## curls00

Ok, I spent the better part of today in the sun, sanding my deck with the 5" random orbit sander. I did get it all done, thank goodness. Looks great now, and feels WAY better on bare feet than before it was sanded.

I also used the cleaner and scrubbed and it looks even better now.

But I'm wondering -- is it too early in the season to stain? Do stores rent moisture meters, or is there a DIY way to check approx. moisture content?


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## slickshift

If it's above 50* F daytime and not too much lower at night, its warm enough
3 days sun is considered enough to dry out the deck
Moisture meter is of course, the most accurate
I've not seen any for rent


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## ContractorBob

*Sued of Behr Stain*

I have been building things for clients for 20 years and this year I got sued over a deck. The reason, Behr semi-transparent stain! This product is the worst thing on the market and should be thrown out. It goes on uneven, it fades within a few months, it waterspots, on and on. I mean how many things can go wrong with one product. The issue is the plastic they are using in their paints and stains..... I mean wouldn't stain my pig pen with this garbage. 

I trusted Behr for the last time thinking that warranty was worth it. The clients even picked Behr for that reason. Didn't go on great but we got it there. Looked great for about 3 months. Then it started fading and then spotting. Can't do anything with it execpt take it off. This should be Behr's problem but they don't back it up. Behr is a rip-off not just a poor excuse for a product line.


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## ContractorBob

*Sued over Behr Stain*

I have been building things for clients for 20 years and this year I got sued over a deck. The reason, Behr semi-transparent stain! This product is the worst thing on the market and should be thrown out. It goes on uneven, it fades within a few months, it waterspots, on and on. I mean how many things can go wrong with one product. The issue is the plastic they are using in their paints and stains..... I mean wouldn't stain my pig pen with this garbage. 

I trusted Behr for the last time thinking that warranty was worth it. The clients even picked Behr for that reason. Didn't go on great but we got it there. Looked great for about 3 months. Then it started fading and then spotting. Can't do anything with it execpt take it off. This should be Behr's problem but they don't back it up. Behr is a rip-off not just a poor excuse for a product line.


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## Steve30

Curls: Are you REALLY in Ontario?!?! if so, then yes, unequivocally, it's too early to stain a deck.

PS-- Avoid the Behr. Also unequivocally.


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## Matthewt1970

2 Things come to mind. 1on't use Latex Stain 2on't use Behr.


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## chrisn

2 Things come to mind. 1on't use Latex Stain 2on't use Behr. 


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gottabighit

*Behr Premium Weatherproofing Wood Finish Natural 500*

Bought 5 gallons of Behr Premium Weatherproofing Wood Finish Natural 500 this morning. Just put in 400 feet of milled 6inx6in x 6 foot Texas cedar post fence. Awesome looking ranch style fence across the front of our 4 acre property. I researched the heck out of stains and sealers for cedar fencing. I settled for a water base sealer. Looked at samples of wood that had been treated with every stain under the sun...ddn't like any of the pigmented ones. I wanted a true clear/transparent sealer so that the natural grain and color of the cedar would show through. Running late for work, I left the Behr product with my hired fencer. Came home about an hour ago to find a BROWN PAINTED FENCE!!! "That is not what I purchased!!!!!!", I thought to myself as I drove through my newly installed gate. I ran to the empty 5 gallon bucket of spent "Natural Wood Finish" only to find remnants of the stain. I didn't take the time to pop open the bucket to examine more closely what I had bought...nothing I had read online had prepared me for the look of my finished $3000 fence. Good Grief... I thought I had purchased a "natural", and clear, finish. Just something that would soak into the wood and bring out the grain and "natural" color of the milled cedar. My God! What have I done??? From the few ounces of left-over stain, it appears to be a walnut brown non-transparent latex paint...is there some mistake here? My entire fence is RUINED! There's no way to get that crap off my fence. It's like someone had mixed a brown pigment with Elmer's Glue and painted my beautiful cedar fence! There was absolutely NOTHING on that damn 5 gallon bucket that says anything brown pigment. I thought I was buying a clear, water based sealer...something that looked like, well, WATER...soaks into the wood and brings out the grain, and protects the wood FROM water...
Any suggestions? I feel so STUPID and so RIPPED OFF. Too bad I just now found this website...
Mark in the Texas Hill Country (with a butt ugly brown fence)


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## 4ThGeneration

gottabighit said:


> Bought 5 gallons of Behr Premium Weatherproofing Wood Finish Natural 500 this morning. Just put in 400 feet of milled 6inx6in x 6 foot Texas cedar post fence. Awesome looking ranch style fence across the front of our 4 acre property. I researched the heck out of stains and sealers for cedar fencing. I settled for a water base sealer. Looked at samples of wood that had been treated with every stain under the sun...ddn't like any of the pigmented ones. I wanted a true clear/transparent sealer so that the natural grain and color of the cedar would show through. Running late for work, I left the Behr product with my hired fencer. Came home about an hour ago to find a BROWN PAINTED FENCE!!! "That is not what I purchased!!!!!!", I thought to myself as I drove through my newly installed gate. I ran to the empty 5 gallon bucket of spent "Natural Wood Finish" only to find remnants of the stain. I didn't take the time to pop open the bucket to examine more closely what I had bought...nothing I had read online had prepared me for the look of my finished $3000 fence. Good Grief... I thought I had purchased a "natural", and clear, finish. Just something that would soak into the wood and bring out the grain and "natural" color of the milled cedar. My God! What have I done??? From the few ounces of left-over stain, it appears to be a walnut brown non-transparent latex paint...is there some mistake here? My entire fence is RUINED! There's no way to get that crap off my fence. It's like someone had mixed a brown pigment with Elmer's Glue and painted my beautiful cedar fence! There was absolutely NOTHING on that damn 5 gallon bucket that says anything brown pigment. I thought I was buying a clear, water based sealer...something that looked like, well, WATER...soaks into the wood and brings out the grain, and protects the wood FROM water...
> Any suggestions? I feel so STUPID and so RIPPED OFF. Too bad I just now found this website...
> Mark in the Texas Hill Country (with a butt ugly brown fence)


It is latex. HD80 will take it off mostly. You have to pH balance it after the strip.

Last words....HIRE....A....PROFESSIONAL!!! Ok back to being nice, but seriously.


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## flatfourone

All I know is that I used Behr Premium Semi-Transparent stain on my cedar deck and cedar fence and never had a problem with it. Restained after four years. I also used a watersealer on top. Sorry everyone seems to have bad experiences with it. I never knew it was so bad.


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## Sprayboy

Behr Exterior paints and stains are meant to be used in the shade only! Exposure to direct sunlight and ultraviolet rays voids the warranty. You must plant trees before you use Behr outdoors. :jester:


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## gma2rjc

Make sure you plant Pine trees or your warranty will be void once Autumn rolls around. lol


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## chrisn

Sprayboy said:


> Behr Exterior paints and stains are meant to be used in the shade only! Exposure to direct sunlight and ultraviolet rays voids the warranty. You must plant trees before you use Behr outdoors. :jester:


 
Really?? I bet that print is almost invisible.:laughing: and if true, that just plain sucks:yes:


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## mikez68

*Ruined my Deck!*

Built a new deck last year (2009) - got some opinions from locals and Behr Premium Semi-Transparent Wood Stain was highly recommended. Stained the deck in July and by Fall one board was peeling - no big deal. Now it's March 2010 and the snow has melted so I inspected the deck. 60-75% of the boards are now peeling and it looks like crap! Going to contact Behr and at least try to get the stain money back. Do not buy this product!


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## Sprayboy

I hope you built your deck in the shade! Did you think I was kidding? :no:


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## Disaster+

*Another horror story*

Last year I refinanced my mortgage to be able to finally add the deck I couldn't afford when I first built 5 years ago. I hired a terrific professional who did a spectacular job building just what I asked for with attention to detail beyond what would have ever occurred to me. The result was a beautiful solid cedar deck with two stairways, railings to match my front porch and a lovely arbor at the farthest point. In the process of trying to find a deck stain color that would compliment the house, I discovered an article about oil base stain and the toxic potential it has when exposed to the elements. The article strongly recommended using water base stain. In his usual meticulous way, my contractor searched and researched what was available in this area and found a water base deck stain with a longer warrantee than any of the oil base stains which also had a very extensive color selection. Being unfamiliar with water base stains, he read everything he could get his hands on and made sure all the exact conditions were right before he applied the stain. Application day was step one of the disaster. Despite his many years of experience and tremendous skills, there was no way to get the stain to apply without running, dripping and puddling. Any attempt to correct these conditions just made matters worse. Late in the day, a slight wind caused the spray to drift high up on the wall of the house, beyond the area that was masked. My perfectionist contractor was devastated. I decided I would live with it and hope that time would lessen the imperfections. I'll repaint the back of the house.
The 4 year warrantee didn't last 4 months and the stain began to chip and disappear off the surface of the deck before I ever had a chance to use it. A decorative area in the center that I had applied with a brush faired even worse than the sprayed area. I hauled out the empty container and got the phone number of the manufacturer which turned out to be Behr. They will replace the stain and provide stripper, conditioner, and some rollers for me to do the job, I just need to purchase them and send in the receipts for a refund. Of course, the actual products are just a fraction of the cost of this disaster. There is no way I can afford to pay someone to do all of this work. On top of that, I have NO confidence in Behr products and I'm terrified to repeat this very expensive mistake by using what they provide!


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## chrisn

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls"

or the deck in this instance:yes:


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## Matthewt1970

Matthewt1970 said:


> 2 Things come to mind. 1on't use Latex Stain 2on't use Behr.


Must quote myself here. Latex stains just won't stand up to the elements especially on horizontal surfaces and surfaces that will be walked on. My girfriend's deck just went through it's second winter with Behr Latex Deck Stain and it is probably abount 50% peeled off. I would love to just wait a couple more years when it is all peeled off :laughing: but I have to take care of this disaster this summer.


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## coffin

*so if not Behr...*

Then what do you recommend? 

I have behr on my house, garage an deck. The deck will go 2 years before it looks completely worthless. The garage and house are on year 3 and are ready for replacement.

What is a good quality stain for cedar siding and deck stain? Ill be stripping it all off this summer and redoing with something better for sure.


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## slickshift

coffin said:


> What is a good quality stain for cedar siding and deck stain? Ill be stripping it all off this summer and redoing with something better for sure.


Sikkens is excellent
Also BM and Sherwin Williams have good products
Cabot's Pro-VT (solid stain) is great for siding, though I haven't used their solid stain for decks since discovering Sikkens
I've also had issues with the new Cabot (EPA mandated lower VOC) reformulated semi's (semi-transparent/solid) on siding last year
I probably won't "spec it" (use on customer's homes) at all this season


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## coffin

are you using the sikkens dek line of stains with good results?


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## glitch510

Matthewt1970 said:


> 2 Things come to mind. 1on't use Latex Stain 2on't use Behr.


Yeah,I found out the hard way. I bought Behr solid color 100% latex last summer (2009), pressure washed the deck,let it dry for 2 weeks before application,and applied when warm and sunny. I was only able to get 1 heavy coat on in the time and area I had to cover, but it is now april 2010 and it is already peeling off in several places,some that didn't even have any traffic.It's almost gone off my front steps! I was planning on putting a second coat on this spring/summer but what's the use. This was alot of work to go through for a product to only last a fews months.
The only reason I went with this was because it was one of the top rated ones in a consumer magazine. Who can you trust ??


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## chrisn

glitch510 said:


> Yeah,I found out the hard way. I bought Behr solid color 100% latex last summer (2009), pressure washed the deck,let it dry for 2 weeks before application,and applied when warm and sunny. I was only able to get 1 heavy coat on in the time and area I had to cover, but it is now april 2010 and it is already peeling off in several places,some that didn't even have any traffic.It's almost gone off my front steps! I was planning on putting a second coat on this spring/summer but what's the use. This was alot of work to go through for a product to only last a fews months.
> The only reason I went with this was because it was one of the top rated ones in a consumer magazine. Who can you trust ??


 
NOT CR:no::laughing::furious:


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## coffin

well can tell you im done. Ive used behr the last 2 times ive done my deck. Its crap. Not even 1 year later....it is peeling nad completely worn through in other areas. im just looking fora good alternative now. Im slated to do my house (cedar siding) and deck this year again and i want it to last this time.


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## slickshift

coffin said:


> are you using the sikkens dek line of stains with good results?


With excellent results
It has been my go-to problem area solid stain for years
It works where others fail


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## z06maniac

Not saying Behr is good, but I think just about any stain, oil based or not, is going suffer in direct sun. I live in central Texas. The sun is pretty brutal here and it rains a lot. I have a 20x60 covered cedar deck on the 2nd floor with stairs and big landing exposed to the sun. The whole thing was stained about 14 months ago with Sherwin. Like someone else on here said, I was bummed that the semi-transparent went on way more solid than I expected, but what's done is done. All the shaded areas of the 2nd floor deck still look great. Anyplace that gets direct sun is peeling like crazy. The stain on the stairs and landing is almost completely gone. I'm halfway convinced this is life with wood and stain, especially in a climate like TX, no matter what you use. I'm tempted to go composite, and I would were it not for the initial expense. I'll probably stain for another year or two and then bite the bullet and go composite. 

Now, one thing I will say about Sherwin is that after it was finished the water beaded on top of it for months. I just refinished some wood stairs on the side of my house. I used the semi-tranparent Behr Premium, just to experiment. I liked the finish look a lot better than the Sherwin. The woodgrain shows through a lot better and being water based, it was easier to apply. It rained a couple days after I stained the stairs. It's going to be interesting to see how long the Behr lasts because the water appeared to just puddle, and maybe even soak into the newly stained wood!


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## Sprayboy

I don't care what anybody says, I will never choose latex over oil-based/alkyd products on bare wood. Water-based products just can't grip as good. :no:


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## Matthewt1970

Sprayboy said:


> I don't care what anybody says, I will never choose latex over oil-based/alkyd products on bare wood. Water-based products just can't grip as good. :no:


I second that.


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## housepaintingny

Even if your deck appears to be in good shape you still should clean it with a good deck wash and not bleach, then use a deck brightner, sand anything that needs it, hammer in any loose nails, screw down any loose screws and apply a coat of cabot semi solid oil base stain, that's just how I would do it


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## melj

*Behr deck stain*

the Behr solid stain, applied on 8 year old and 3 year old pressure treated wood did not last even ONE year!


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## Gnat

*I would not use Behr again!*



curls00 said:


> I have a pressure-treated wood deck that I want to protect. The deck was put up last summer so it's still under a year old and no boards have turned gray yet - all are still looking nice and golden.
> 
> Home Depot has their Behr Premium Plus stains on sale this week and I was thinking that since they are on sale, and it's their top-end line (I know, Behr isn't a premium product...), that it wouldn't be too bad. It's warrantied for 4 years on decks, 6 years on fences, so it cannot be too bad, can it?
> 
> Also, I'm thinking I want to go with a transparent stain to give protection without changing the color of the deck, since I'm not sure I want to stain my entire fence to match the deck (way too much work for one year, LOL!). Do transparent stains/protectors like this work, or would a semi-transparent be required to get decent UV protection?
> 
> Lastly, I have an 8x8 shed in one corner of my lot, butted up against the fence. I really don't want to take the shed down to stain that area of fence (it's a real pain to get down, and especially back up). Since the boards facing the shed are basically in perpetual darkness, is stain necessary? Aside from the obvious moisture that the boards are exposed to in that darkness, should I be worried about them? I mean it is only 16' of fence so if later I remove the shed, the boards wouldn't cost much to replace.
> 
> Comments/suggestions appreciated - this is an AWESOME forum and I've always got great advice from people here. Thanks for that.
> 
> Eric


 
This was my second time to use Behr Premium. The first time was excellent and I used the natural color. We went back to Home Depot and bought 2, 5 gallon containers and had HD shake it. When we got it home it was like pudding. We took it back and got 2 more. Needless to say the natural color I bought was more like the cedar color. Behr has a problem in our area. I needed another 5 gallons and went back. The HD salesmen told me that the Behr representative was rude and telling him he did something to the stain. There was no way that the HD salesmen could have changed the color. Behr has a defective product and I will not use it again. I should have use something else and will in the future.


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## Gnat

Gnat said:


> This was my second time to use Behr Premium. The first time was excellent and I used the natural color. We went back to Home Depot and bought 2, 5 gallon containers of the natural and had HD shake it. When we got it home it was like pudding. We took it back and bought 2 more natural color. Needless to say the natural color I bought was more like the cedar color. Behr has a problem in our area. I needed another 5 gallons and went back. The HD salesmen told me that the Behr representative was rude and telling him he did something to the stain. There was no way that the HD salesmen could have changed the color. On top of that after applying it rained about a week after and it spotted. We prepped and applied as directed. Behr has a defective product and I will not use it again. I should have use something else and will in the future.


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## Sarge81

*Omg!!*

Behr Permium Solid stain, 10 year deck warranty, on cedar deck in 09. I'll make the search easy for others who got sucked into this mess; sucks, do not buy, peels, peeling, cedar color is actually the "great pumpkin" orange, I mean really orange, add black and now it's chocolate, bad, lawsuit! 

I bought the 5 gallon bucket of 0516 solid base in June 2009. Had it mixed as "Cedar". Painted 400 sqft of horizontal deck plus 12ft. of treads...and a lot of linear feet of rails etc... Stood back and looked at it when it dried and it was... friggin bright pumpkin orange! Denial to anger to depression. I returned to the store with the remaining gallons and the HD paint dude squirted some black in it...shook it up...and it was friggin chocolate! Went home..spent another 5 days repainting. First and second year had some peeling on horizontal surfaces. Deck was cleaned each time and touched up. This year I reluctantly decided to attempt to finally get this right and bought 2 gallons of behr acrylic stripper No# 64. Applied to the shaded side of the deck and kept damp fo an hour. Minimal results...I mean minimal! I"m at the "OMG" stage. Maybe 10 more gallons of this $20 stripper and a 100 hours. There has to be a couple thousand of us tha can get together and get our money back?? Call Behr?...that's what the HD dude said. I don't know. Do not apply in the sunlight? Work at night? Burn it?


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## 95025

I think it's fairly easy to determine several things:

1. Operator Error is responsible for a LOT of the "paint" problems people face. You can't paint/stain wet wood. Seriously... How many people have painted/stained their deck 2-3 days after power-washing it, then screamed up a storm when the stuff didn't adhere? 

2. Decks are a tough application. Maybe the worst. It takes a heckuva product, and latex just isn't it.

3. Regarding Behr products... Inconsistency seems to be their main problem - both the product and the retail outlets.


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## tdu1964

*Behr Mess*

I too have a Behr mess! Any recommendations for a new stain????


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## stole

Ok, we all know Behr is not reliable right now. Then another more important question is which other stains are better, or best? Anyway, we need to stain our deck, and just knowing Behr is not gonna work is not enough. 

Any good experience with other brands and lines? 
Someone recommended Cabot semi-transparent oil based stain. What about their colored oil based stain? 
I know oil based dominates latex based for sure. 
I am making a comparison between semi and colored with respect to their durability. 
As to the brand, what about Olympic? Any suggestions?


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## hammerheart14

ONE WORD, SANSIN!!!! Check them out, they are for sure, the best stain company on the market. http://sansin.com/ For something more affordable if you are on a budget, check out TWP stains. A good med tier stain. http://www.gemini-coatings.com/?p=11778


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## Robert Jacob

My deck also peeled within a few months. A Behr representative told me to purchase all new products...4 gallons of Premium redwood finish, stripper 64 etc. and mail in the receipts. They will reimburse me. What I didn't take into account was the time it takes to strip off the old material. So far I've spent 16 hours and figure about 4 more will have the deck ready for finishing.


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## ccarlisle

I am starting to think that Behr paint is a 'loss-leader'. They don't mind that the product doesn't work because most of the people won't call the rep and have them refund their purchases. So in spite of this largesse, they're still ahead of the game. What's up with that strategy?

If I were you I'd ask for s store refund, where you get the equivalent $ back for your original purchase, then buy a better product elsewhere? So, what? does he think you're going to be duped twice?


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## chrisn

Robert Jacob said:


> My deck also peeled within a few months. A Behr representative told me to purchase all new products...4 gallons of Premium redwood finish, stripper 64 etc. and mail in the receipts. They will reimburse me. What I didn't take into account was the time it takes to strip off the old material. So far I've spent 16 hours and figure about 4 more will have the deck ready for finishing.


and they want you to apply the same crap???:laughing::no:


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## fubar79

Same scenario here... stained with Behr's premium last year, sanded it off today. Waste of time and money! :furious:

Behr also offered us the same deal: send in last years receipts, with this years receipts, and they will reimburse for this years products. I might buy the stuff, send in the receipts, then return the product. I'm not wasting anymore of my time with Behr products!


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## Mikeydidit

I have a pretty good sized job to do on my deck and think i am going with this.

http://www.defystain.com/defy-extreme-stain.html

It cost about the same money as the other "top brands".


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## user1007

ccarlisle said:


> I am starting to think that Behr paint is a 'loss-leader'. They don't mind that the product doesn't work because most of the people won't call the rep and have them refund their purchases. So in spite of this largesse, they're still ahead of the game. What's up with that strategy?
> 
> If I were you I'd ask for s store refund, where you get the equivalent $ back for your original purchase, then buy a better product elsewhere? So, what? does he think you're going to be duped twice?


I wouldn't lose sleep worrying HD is losing any money on Behr paint. I suspect everthing in the store has to hold a 40 percent or better margin. Packaging paint, when you think about it, costs nothing. Toss some color in the can, close the lid and shake it. Help the customer load five gallons and $300 worth toy sprayer, $40 worth of brushes (most likely the wrong ones), a pack of plastic tray liners for $8, etc. in the trunk of a Honda and you are doing just fine, thank you very much. 

I do think asking for a refund would be the way to go. You should probably save the empties as proof though. If nothing else you can make some noise with them as you march up to the counter and stack them up for all to see as fails. It's never come up but I know a paint store would refund the money no questions asked and not force you into the same crappy product. You would probably get a nice letter within days expressing concern over the experience you had with a company product. Watch your mailbox for such a letter from a box store.


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## melj

I hired a professional painter who sanded off the old finish on my pressure treated deck and applied Behr's semi-transparent stain, guaranteed on the can for 4 years. It didn't even last over the first winter!


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## cheznik

*Behr works excellent for me*

I just completed staining my pine log sided home and deck with the new Behr premium stain, in the natural clear. The old Behr premium stain on the house was 7 years old, and the deck stain was 3 years old. I was totally satisfied with the quality and life of the stain and it's appearance, right down to the end of it's life. I even received compliments on my home's appearance. People here take pride in their log homes. I live in Colorado, and we get about 325 sunny days a year, and a lot of snow all winter long. All I did is lightly hand sand any loose old stain, which comes off very easy, sweep it away, and start staining. By the way, I had no black stains at all. My results have been great.

Although the instructions say that two coats is the best, I have found that one heavy coat works as well, I got 7 years siding, and 3 years deck.

I am at a loss to understand all the problems people have had with this product. Maybe the company is inconsistent in their manufacturing standards, but my experience is totally positive. 

I have looked up reviews on all the other major stain manufacturers, and they seem to have all the same problems and complaints as Behr. I am thinking that most of these problems are due to the most important part of any staining project; proper surface preparation.


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## 95025

I've said it before, will say it again, and will continue to say it.
*
All this Behr Bashing is a bunch of he-man bandwagon macho BS.*

Grow up, boys! As with all other paints and stains, 75% of all problems have to do with surface preparation and/or application.

- How many times have we read that somebody POWER-WASHED their deck, then stained it the next day? They then come on here and complain about how it only last one year. And - without exception - if they used a Behr product, all the he-man macho wannabes come out screaming about how "Behr is crap!!!!" How can we be so stupid? Somebody tries to stain wet wood, and the failure is the fault of the product? 

- Or a guy uses LATEX stain/sealer on his deck, and it doesn't work. Same old mantra: "BEHR SUCKS!!!" 

- We read about how somebody has runs, drips and sags after painting an interior wall. And again, if he used Behr paint, the he-men come out screaming, "Behr is crap!!!" Are we really that stupid? Has it not occurred to anybody that maybe - just maybe - the guy glopped the paint on too thick and/or the wall was cold, because it was the middle of the winter? 

- A guy complains about how his Behr Paint is peeling, after only one year. Yet again, the macho-men all jump in screaming, "BEHR IS CRAP!!!" but don't bother to mention that the guy painted over gloss paint, without first sanding and/or using a primer.


Without question, Behr is NOT a top-end paint. It's a mid-range paint. Not the worst, and certainly not the best. Nobody is being forced to buy it, but there actually are people who will *choose* a $20 gallon of Behr Paint over a $60 gallon of BM Paint, and will have an excellent finished product.


So... For the sake of this actually being a HELPFUL site for DIY folks, let's wise up. Let's address the real problems with paint & stain. And let's have the balls to admit that the overwhelming majority of paint & stain problems have to do with surface preparation and/or application, NOT the brand of paint or stain somebody uses.


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## ccarlisle

Nothing to do with being macho; I wonder why do you bring gender into it...says something. 

For every case of poor prep, there are more examples of poor paint.:yes:


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## 95025

ccarlisle said:


> Nothing to do with being macho; I wonder why do you bring gender into it...says something.
> :yes:*
> For every case of poor prep, there are more examples of poor paint.*


Wrong. The overwhelming majority of poor paint jobs have their root in poor preparation and application. Anybody who has done any amount of painting knows it, from both experience and observation.

And thank you for proving, again, my point about the whole macho chest-beating problem.


Now... Maybe - just maybe - the members of this forum should focus on being HELPFUL, rather than on trying to be cool.


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## ccarlisle

Wrong again. Put it this way: in those cases where poor prep was perhaps a reason for a paint failure, a good quality paint would have saved the day. But the shear number of people who complain about Behr paint is evidence enough to think that in those same cases of poor to marginal prep jobs, a better paint would have given better results.

And by suggesting that they avail themselves of a better quality paint, we are being helpful. 

O-for-two; want to try for strike three? Go ahead and make it a real good day!


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## 95025

ccarlisle said:


> Wrong again. Put it this way:* 1.) in those cases where poor prep was perhaps a reason for a paint failure, a good quality paint would have saved the day.* But the shear number of people who complain about Behr paint is evidence enough to think that *2.) in those same cases of poor to marginal prep jobs, a better paint would have given better results.*
> 
> *3.) And by suggesting that they avail themselves of a better quality paint, we are being helpful. *
> 
> *4.) O-for-two; want to try for strike three? Go ahead and make it a real good day!*


1.) Absolute BS. A complete lie. $60 per gallon latex stain will not soak in adhere to adhere to a wet deck, regardless of whether or not you worship the brand name. IF you are professional and IF you do that kind of crappy work, you will either go back and do the job right or you'll be sued. Period.

2.) Again, total BS. Anybody knows that if you don't scrape and prep a surface, even the best paint is not going to provide satisfactory results. The only result is that you will have paid even more money for crappy results. 

3.) You are not "suggesting they avail themselves of a better quality paint." You are brainlessly bashing one particular brand of paint, while NOT giving any helpful advice. Again, it does NO GOOD to waste $60 per gallon on overpriced paint, if the prep and application is no good.

4.) It has already been a stellar day. You've taken the bait, and exposed yourself as the epitome of the problem here. No good advice, or bad advice, all for the sake of stroking your ego while bashing one particular brand of paint.


Want to be an asset to this forum, rather than a continuing detriment? Help people with prep and application. Give some helpful advice - something more than "Buy the brand of paint I worship, or you're an idiot."


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## eightball

*Sansin*

Dude...relax...will Behr pay you workers comp if you have a heart attack...geez..

I have stained a few decks in my past, a pressure treated deck that I had to redo every year...

The deck that i just finished staining with a 5L pail of Sansin (3 coats) is about 20X20. Painted REZ Midew Stain Remover (Canadian Fire), let it sit 15-20 mins (without letting it dry) and pressured washed it off. I looked fantastic, like I had taken off a thin layer....

Anyway, I did alittle sanding, the pressure washer does not leave a completely smooth finish, and used half the pail on the first coat. It came out with a nice orange coat. Second coat, was better colour. I had just finished the deck and it rained 6 hours later that night. It held up well except for a part of the deck that is underneath a pine tree, it washed right down to the wood in one spot.


Third coat, using the rest of the pail, came out fantastic, It was applied on a saturday, and not humid or hot, a little breeze, very nice day, It dried on Sunday, and the rain started today, and it rained for 14 hours....

I tried to check it in the dark, I think it cured, I used a rag to try and wipe some off, and it did not come off... 

Before it was wet it was almost like a shiny orange colour, after the rain it has turned into a solid beige brown colour. 


Be interesting to see what it looks like after it dries.

BTW- I did buy 'some colour your world' brand previously, and I believe the problem that it started peeling in the spring was because I did not *clean* the deck properly. The cheap cleaners don't work, stripping a layer of wood off does...if you seal without cleaning, you seal in the dirt.


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## 95025

eightball said:


> Dude...relax...will Behr pay you workers comp if you have a heart attack...geez..
> 
> I have stained a few decks in my past, a pressure treated deck that I had to redo every year...


Dude... Is our resident Sherwin-Williams salesman going to come redo the OP's deck, after his absolutely abysmal advice is taken, and the guy applies expensive stain on a wet deck? Stupid advice is stupid advice, and advising somebody to apply expensive stain on a deck he pressure-washed the day before is stupid advice, regardless of what product a guy is pushing

Geez...


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## requin

I just read through this entire thread because I have two decks to stain and saw that HD carries Behr. I was looking for reviews on Behr stains and found this thread/site. After having read everything, I know I don't want to use Behr. 

I haven't done any exterior painting so this is all new to me. I'm a 49 year old single woman and I'm not a contractor, etc. I live in a duplex condo. I've been here 5+ years and never touched the decks. (I don't like it here and have not planned to stay but the economy, unfortunately, has altered that plan a bit). Less than 2 years ago(maybe closer to 1 year or so, ago) my duplex neighbor had her decks "professionally" done. (I put that in quotes because the outfit she hired weren't very professional, but that's another story). They used Sherwin Williams Woodscapes acrylic solid color stain. She has since moved out and I just took a look at the decks. The stain is peeling off much of the railings and there's bright green mold growing in many places all over the deck. She does live on the north side and it's shaded, to boot. We have a lot of trouble w/ mold (inside and out) on this treed lot. 

Anyway. SW is supposed to be good. So why is that stain peeling/moldy already? Could they have put on too thin of a coat? (My guess is they did). I was thinking I might get this brand for my decks but now I'm not so sure.

My decks are small, back one is 8'x11', with 40" high railings all around. Front is 4'x11' with 12 stairs and similiar railings. I do not want to spend a lot of money on this job but I don't want to use cheap junk either. How much stain will I need for these 2 decks? 

It's Oct. here in New England now. Is it too late to do this? I procrastinated, I admit. I didn't want the decks to deal w/ another harsh winter w/out a new coat of stain. If this is a bad time tostart this job, when is a good time? Spring? Summer?

I read the comments about not waiting long enough after washing, to stain. How long do you have to wait? How many days of no rain must there be after washing before you can stain? 
As you've probably figured out, my decks are already stained (with dark brown plasticky stuff, I assume the acrylic (or latex?) stain such as was recently put on next door). What's on it is what was on it when I moved in. I have a lot of green mold due to shade. I read about using oxygen bleach to clean that off. I was hoping I could do that and stain a few days later. No? How long then?

Please recommend good but not expensive brands and where they can be bought. I'm not going to drive all over creation looking for a "specialty" brand of stain for this condo I don't even like.

And before you start in on it--NO the condo association is not going to do this job or pay for this job. It is the owners' responsibillty to care for the decks. (It's a very small association, only 6 units total, and we simply don't have the funds.) 

Sorry so verbose. Thanks for the help.


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## Sprayboy

Before you apply anything the decks should be pressure-washed and given a week to dry out. You can then go after loose nails and do any sanding that is needed. I don't use anything but oil-based or alkyd products on bare wood because I feel they stick so much better than latex. You can buy Cabot or Olympic products at Lowes. I would normally go with Cabot but this last deck I used the Olympic color-tone natural cedar sealer. I sprayed it on with a Graco Nova but you can roll it, mitt it, mop it, or use a garden sprayer. It needed a lot of stirring but really soaked in easy and the look was consistent. 
At $23.00/gallon I used four gallons on a 20x30 deck with a wood canopy. You have plenty of time to do this if the weather holds out but you will run into leaf-blown problems if you don't wait for a calm day. Remember to use a cleaner with moldicide when you wash it if you have mold issues.


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## 95025

Sprayboy said:


> Before you apply anything the decks should be pressure-washed and given a week to dry out. You can then go after loose nails and do any sanding that is needed. I don't use anything but oil-based or alkyd products on bare wood because I feel they stick so much better than latex. You can buy Cabot or Olympic products at Lowes. I would normally go with Cabot but this last deck I used the Olympic color-tone natural cedar sealer. I sprayed it on with a Graco Nova but you can roll it, mitt it, mop it, or use a garden sprayer. It needed a lot of stirring but really soaked in easy and the look was consistent.
> At $23.00/gallon I used four gallons on a 20x30 deck with a wood canopy. You have plenty of time to do this if the weather holds out but you will run into leaf-blown problems if you don't wait for a calm day. Remember to use a cleaner with moldicide when you wash it if you have mold issues.


Hey neighbor! 

Good advice - especially about going with oil or alkyd instead of latex, and WAITING FOR THE DECK TO DRY AFTER POWER-WASHING IT. Dry to the touch does NOT mean dry enough to paint, regardless of what product you're using.


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## Sprayboy

Quite right Dr.! The drier it is the more the product will penetrate and anyone will tell ya there is no substitute for penetration! :thumbup:


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## eightball

So, I was going to post a update to "my" deck staining experience (this year)..

If I can figure our how to upload a pic with this app, I will.

It turned out great,,applied three coats of sansin, and yeah, not much else to say.. I's very happy with it..

As for all the drying, waiting for a [email protected]$t, that is what it is..

I know, as soon as I leave, it will be that guy is .. For not waiting blah blah blah..

So, AGAIN, the day I washed the deck it was 32-34, hot hot windy day. So was the next day. My deck is in the sun from 9am on, there was a day of this sun on my deck. It was dry when I applied.

If I was to wait for the POSSIBILITY to get over a week with NO RAIN, after I wash, and to wait another # of days for it to cure, 

AND the chance that I was able to pick this 20 days of no rain back in march (when I have to decide when I take my five weeks) seriously, •dude•

Anyway, to summarize:
Sansin
Three coats


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## eightball

Here is the picture of the deck..


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## user1007

Looks great!


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## Sprayboy

eightball said:


> Here is the picture of the deck..


Arrgghhh! The lighter streaks in the boards are noticeable. Not as much penetration there as there would be if it had been allowed to dry longer.:whistling2:


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## avatarx

so what products do you recommend?

I'm thinking about cleaning and just using Thompson's water seal on my deck to protect it. Is Thompson's water seal any good?


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## chrisn

avatarx said:


> so what products do you recommend?
> 
> I'm thinking about cleaning and just using Thompson's water seal on my deck to protect it. Is Thompson's water seal any good?


 

ahh, NO:no:


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## user1007

I realize this is an old rekindled thread but I guess it still works. Thompson's Water Seal is the work of the devil. It is wax based and will cause you nothing but problems. You will be lucky to get a season out of it and once you put down wax it is going to resist anything else you try to use. 

Depending on how much discoloration you have and how much of the natural grain you want showing choose between a sealer with no color, a semi-transparent with pigment added but that will, for the most part, soak into the wood, to a semi-solid stain. I would not use a solid stain on a horizontal deck surface.


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## Expert Paint

i hate to keep trying to pimp out a product . .. . but look into Rymar Xtreme weather. it makes messmers, sikkens, deckscapes, cabots look bad. Again, I live in the Aspen area. . .we are at 9000ft elevation getting punished with UV and moisture. it lasts longer than anything else up here. . .it is low voc oil. . it has mosquito repellant built in, teflon resin, all in a semi-trans oil stain.


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## twosilos

*Just the Worst*

Behr was a multiple thousand dollar mistake for us. We have an 800 foot long driveway, plus fencing around the house perimeter, of Jumbo Cedar Split Rail. You can imagine the linear feet. After purchasing huge container after container of Behr stain from Home Depot, we began application. Before the job was even finished we could see we had a problem with adhesion. Within just a few months the stain was peeling off the fence. What the heck is STAIN doing PEELING? We were just sick.... after all that power washing to prep and a meticulous application. It was just an eyesore and really made the property look shabby. So we hired a deck refinisher who spent hours and hours chemically treating the posts and rails to remove the Behr as best as he could, then he followed up with another product, which has been far superior. With what the removal process cost us, we COULD HAVE BUILT AN ENTIRE NEW FENCE. We went through the removal so that we would not have to re-dig millions of holes again, plus the down time was unacceptable with livestock within the fence. Never, never consider this product. It is cheap crap. Other than the anxiety and money lost over this, I have the additional regret of a reminder every day when I can see that Behr  peering through from crannies under the new finish.


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## 95025

^^ Without question, we have a lot of "sock puppet posting" going on here. It doesn't take a genius to read posts 5, 13, 18, 26, 41&42, 43, 45, 58, 75, and 55 - and see what's taking place.

Perhaps the moderators should look into which member(s) is/are doing this.


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## DangerMouse

NONE of them are the same member(s) as all IPs and emails are different. 

DM


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## beenthere

After 4 years, I think this thread has out lived it usefulness, and the OP's question has been answered.

Closed, as this is not a why I hate this product site.


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