# Determining a Load Bearing Wall (Pic Included)



## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

I have been told by the home inspector that this is NOT a load bearing wall. That the load is carried by the two outside walls (house width is approximately 16' wide. As you can see in the picture it is only 2 2x4's, my untrained unskilled eye it is just the top plate for the wall and it is NOT load-bearing. The wall is in between the kitchen and dining room and is approximately 10' long before the opening. We would like to widen the opening by about 4 feet essentially to where the blind 2x4 is marked on the wall. I know that NO ONE can tell me 100% if this is load bearing without having an engineer come in, I am ONLY looking for OPINIONS on this. Before I do anything I WILL have a professional come in, but ALL OPINIONS are Welcome and Encouraged!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME and OPINION! :thumbup:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Do you have a basement?
Are the support poles in line with the wall or perpendicular to the wall?
Is the roof ridge line parallel or perpendicular to the wall?
Are the ceiling joists parallel or perpendicular to the wall?
Answer those and I can tell you if it's a load bearing wall.
Ron


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

is it a single story ranch style with a truss roof?


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Flat Roof Not Trusses

Basement with garage wall (cinderblock)directly underneath this wall
garage one side laundry room/walkway other side

ceiling joist run perpindicular to wall (I have a better picture that shows the ceiling joists in relation to this wall but of course I can't find it)

Now support poles

I think that is alll you asked ?


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

A simple way to check is to open up the ceiling in that area and see which way the joists are running. If the joists are running parallel with the wall it is not a load bearing wall. If the joists run across the wall then it is a load bearing wall. You should always consult a structural engineer on your particular job as to make sure there isn’t any hidden obstacles to contend with.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Evil Scotsman said:


> Flat Roof Not Trusses
> 
> Basement with garage wall (cinderblock)directly underneath this wall
> garage one side laundry room/walkway other side
> ...


 If the ceiling joists are perpendicular to the wall, they are resting on the wall. So the wall would be load bearing. The cinderblock wall running under this wall would confirm it's load bearing.
To remove the wall, you would need to put in a header to carry the load of the removed wall studs.
Ron


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## Do It Right (Feb 24, 2011)

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact that it's got a double top plate tell us its supporting?
Also it's in the center with the ceiling joists perpendicular to it.
The double 2x's at the right are supporting the header that is in the existing opening.
What could be a real PITA is the removal, & re-running of the wiring that is there.


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

THANK YOU for the clarification!!!! I have always seen big thick headers which is why I thought just 2 2x4's it was not! Would it be a MAJOR hassle to remove this wall and install a header? I heard the rule of thumb was 1" per one foot run? For example a 10' opening would require a 10" header?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Evil Scotsman said:


> THANK YOU for the clarification!!!! I have always seen big thick headers which is why I thought just 2 2x4's it was not! Would it be a MAJOR hassle to remove this wall and install a header? I heard the rule of thumb was 1" per one foot run? For example a 10' opening would require a 10" header?


The criteria for header size is the load it's carrying.
Reviewing the photograph, I see an opening to the right of the wall. I see some wood up by the ceiling, but nothing that looks, "header like", unless it's recessed into the ceiling.
How big is that opening?
Ron


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

To the right of the double 2x4 post is about 6'


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Evil Scotsman said:


> To the right of the double 2x4 post is about 6'


Where's the header there? All I see are the double 2x4 top plates.
Is this a one story structure?
Ron


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

There is NO header?! ONLY the double top plates. That is why I thought it was NOT a LB wall. If you look at the side by the light switch up at the top you will be able to see the end of the wall is 2 2x4's and the top is a 2x4 double top plates?!? The cieling joists are on top of the top plates. But that is all there is to the header? That is why I questioned it be LB?


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

2 story house, flat roof, full basement


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Is there a wall directly or within a foot of this wall location on the second floor? If there is this is definately a LB wall. 

As the floor joist above run perpendicular to this wall would also indicate that this a LB wall.

Mark


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

No wall above this wall. The front bedroom is above this wall (about 16' wide by 20' room) this wall would be roughly in the middle of that bedroom. But you have just raised another question for me, a load bearing wall would carry the load of the floor above it correct??? So that would make the garage walll under the first floor loadbearing, but since there is no wall above "THIS" kitchen wall it would NOT be loadbearing??? Does this sound correct??? Please DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME I am NOT second guessing ANYONE on here, You guys know way better than I, that is why I am here! But that makes sense to me? But I do not know for sure!!! JUST asking questions!


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Evil, no problems, here, we just have to ask alot of questions to give you the best answers.

I would say that the wall you are trying to remove is load bearing, I say this as the likelyhood of the floor above being built of 16 ft long 2 x 12 is not likely.

My guess is the floor above is fabricated of 2 x 8's, overlapped and supported by the wall you are thinking of removing. 

That leads me to another question, what is supporting the second story floor to the right of the wall you want remove.

Mark

Edit - Did you or someone prior to your owning this house, remove the section to the right of the section we are talking about?

Regardless of who removed it, the supporting double 2 x 4 (at least this is what it looks like) is inadequate.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Do the roof rafters run in the same direction as the ceiling joists in the first floor?
What size are they?
The garage is under the house, you said with the wall under the kitchen wall. The basement is on the other side of the garage wall? There are no support poles in your basement at all.
Which way do the floor joists run on the first floor? Perpendicular to the kitchen wall or parallel?
Ron


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Well Evil, I think that you can remove the wall section if the partition wall in the basement runs parallel with and under the wall you are removing, but not without first temperarily supporting the second story floor on both sides of the wall for the whole 10 ft span.

You then have to remove the 4 ft wall sectopm and existing supports across the entire opening and add a header going completely across the 10 ft opening, By my estimate the header will be made of 2 x 2x10's supported by at least 3 x 2x4 on both ends.

Good Luck,

Mark


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Jackofall1 said:


> Evil, no problems, here, we just have to ask alot of questions to give you the best answers.
> 
> I would say that the wall you are trying to remove is load bearing, I say this as the likelyhood of the floor above being built of 16 ft long 2 x 12 is not likely.
> 
> ...


More pics to follow


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