# Me ranting about nails...



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Simply knowing what nails to use for what CAN be frustrating! We returned the "Grip-right" nails the wife bought after every other nail seemed to bend in the middle! I found MAZE nails, made in the USA and never looked back.

DM


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

your way overthinking this. code is the minimum.. any decent builder just used common sense. when it comes to structure most often more is better

standard practice is to use 2 1/4' s for sheathing and strapping both for hand nailing and gun nailing.. for framing 3 1 /2" common spikes for hand and 3 1/4" through the gun


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

When you attach sheathing to studs or joists you have to nail quite close to the edge of the sheet and the stick. Too-fat a nail wil split the wood.


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## Pittsville (Jan 8, 2011)

woodworkbykirk said:


> standard practice is to use 2 1/4' s for sheathing and strapping both for hand nailing and gun nailing.. for framing 3 1 /2" common spikes for hand and 3 1/4" through the gun


So... 2 1/4" being 7d. (Not commonly found in stores in my neck of the woods) Would you personally then go with 6d or 8d for sheathing and strapping? Hand bang or gun? Around here if you choose the gun route, you're either forced to shoot 2" x .113" (true 6d common) or 2 3/8" x .113" (8d cooler).

The ESR-1539 seems more useful to me then the IRC when it comes to determining which nail to use and how many.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

I've always used 2 1/2" inch ring shank for the nail gun and this works great for wall sheathing and roof sheathing, 2" ring shanks work too but that extra 3/8" of bite allows for a better hold IMO. When on the job you do not want to many available nails as it gets really confusing and I tend to shoot fro one 4 all type of fasteners. for wall sheathing and roof sheathing you do not need to use galvanized ring shank but if you have need for them elsewhere that goes back to the one for all and the extra money for the galvanized ring shank makes up for having 2 different boxes of half used nails left over...


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

im in canada actually, we dont use the penny system for nail size its actual size of the nail

the only time we use 2" nails is when installing 1" rigid foam to the exterior via 2" siding nails, and when gun nailing wood siding where we use ring shank stainless steel coil nails


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## aaronk (Dec 17, 2011)

Wow, I seem to recall the builder of my garage using STAPLES to fasten 7/16" OSB to the studs!


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

As noted, you are seriously overthinking this whole thing. I have done a lot of work with Habitat for Humanity in various places in the U.S. On every build, all the framing and sheathing/subflooring was done with one of two nail sizes, 8d or 16d sinkers. My wife and I built our house by ourselves, and did the same thing. Habitat does not, in general, allow volunteers to use pneumatic nailers, and we didn't use them either.


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## diycoder (Sep 16, 2012)

My rant about nails is contractors not using stainless steel siding nails to attach cedar clapboards. I've been doing exterior painting and it's annoying having to counter-sink rusty nails, fill holes with caulk, etc to deal with rust nails. In some spots, the nails are completely rusted through.

I recently had a contractor do a small bump-out on my house and caught him using non-stainless steel siding nails. Arrgh.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

staples are allowed in some regions for fastening wall sheathijng.. they have plenty of holding power however they dont have shear strength. i dont think their allowed to use them in seismic zones

as for stainless steel nails, its typically a cost issue or availability. builders that dont do high end work wont be bothered to pay almost double the cost for stainless steel nails or their supplier just doesnt stock them. we use when installing wood and fibre cement siding along with cedar shingles. for paint grade wood siding we use color match painted ss ring nails .. we pay $65 for a 5 lb box. as opposed to $28 for galvy`s


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## Pittsville (Jan 8, 2011)

Personally, I don't feel as though I'm over-thinking the subject. There is a lot of misleading/contradictory information available and I'm trying to sift through it all to find the truth. When the safety of my family and others is at stake, I'll research the topic exhaustively until I'm 100% confident that the structure is as strong as it can be.

I've been doing a great deal of research on the IRC and ESR-1539. It's my understanding that the IRC provides the minimum code. ESR-1539 seems to use the minimum code as a baseline to provide specs for using a broader range of fasteners. Because of this, ESR-1539 still seems more useful, especially when the nails available in your market are limited to a select few sizes. You can reference the document to determine the number of nails to use for the connection method.

The one connection that I've been unable to find information for in either the IRC or ESR-1539, is horizontal blocking between studs. (Said blocking is installed for the purpose of hanging sheathing on the exterior wall) I may have overlooked it, but I don't recall seeing a nailing schedule for this blocking. In my particular case, since the studs are already installed, I can face nail one side of the blocking, but I'd have to toe nail the other side.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

for blocking between studs being secured with toe-nails you have to look at movement. you have side to side, front to rear and up and down. studs will prevent the side to side.

so the blocking can move front to rear or up and down. in those positions toe-nails will hold (min. 2 nails, 1 each side). attach one side with end nails the other with toe-nails. if the blocking could move side to side then toe-nails would not have the lateral resistance since the movement would be in the general direction the nail is driven. nails are strong in shear, not in withdrawal.

blocking may be installed with narrow side out, or on the flat. I have never found that stated in the code. I found that out from the American Wood Council, publishers of the Wood Frame Construction Manual which is a referenced code design manual.


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## Pittsville (Jan 8, 2011)

GBrackins said:


> for blocking between studs being secured with toe-nails you have to look at movement. you have side to side, front to rear and up and down. studs will prevent the side to side.
> 
> so the blocking can move front to rear or up and down. in those positions toe-nails will hold (min. 2 nails, 1 each side). attach one side with end nails the other with toe-nails. if the blocking could move side to side then toe-nails would not have the lateral resistance since the movement would be in the general direction the nail is driven. nails are strong in shear, not in withdrawal.
> 
> blocking may be installed with narrow side out, or on the flat. I have never found that stated in the code. I found that out from the American Wood Council, publishers of the Wood Frame Construction Manual which is a referenced code design manual.


Good info, thanks! I have my blocking installed with the narrow side out. Started by face nailing and toe nailing with 3 8d common nails per side. Switched to face nailing with 3 10d commons and stayed with 3 8d nails for toe nailing the other side.


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## Pittsville (Jan 8, 2011)

md2lgyk said:


> As noted, you are seriously overthinking this whole thing. I have done a lot of work with Habitat for Humanity in various places in the U.S. On every build, all the framing and sheathing/subflooring was done with one of two nail sizes, 8d or 16d sinkers. My wife and I built our house by ourselves, and did the same thing. Habitat does not, in general, allow volunteers to use pneumatic nailers, and we didn't use them either.


I've been looking at sinkers for some time. I like the idea that they're thinner than commons, so less likely to split the lumber. I also like the fact that I can get them cement coated like their gun nail cousins. Ideally, I think I'd like to do all of my framing with three nail sizes - 8d sinker, 16d sinker and 10d common (for joining studs/splices together). The questions that I have about sinkers that I can't seem to find the answers to:

1. How common are HDG sinkers? I've not really seen them available in my area. These are obviously a must when nailing into PT lumber...

2. Similar to #1, how common are loose (hand bang) ring shank sinkers? I can find these in gun nails all day and night, but have yet to see them loose in a box.

3. I see 8d sinkers (2-3/8" x .113") in the ESR-1539, but no mention of 16d sinkers (3-1/4" x .148"). What gives? Since they're the same diameter as a 10d common, do you just treat them as a "long 10d" and use the appropriate number?

4. Any thoughts on diminished holding power or easier withdrawal since the heads are countersunk instead of being "T" shaped like a common?


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## Pink John (Dec 27, 2018)

I know this is an old post but regarding figuring out nail sizes, I too feel the pain right now that you went through.

I'm in the process of getting a permit for a garage I'd like to build all by myself (except for the concrete work)

I've done plenty of interior construction, drywall, furniture making, etc, but it's a whole new world when you're building an entire structure, want it to be solid, meet the codes, etc.

For someone not in the construction trades, it truly is a nightmare trying to figure out exactly what kind/size of nails or fasteners to use.

The IRC helps but only so much.

Do I need galvanized, brite, ring shank, how long, what gun will shoot those nails, do I need longer nails based on the sheathing thickness, etc etc etc.

It's a long list of little questions to which there aren't always clear answers.

It's an educational process for sure, sometimes frustrating but I'm slowly figuring out everything I'll need to build this garage and can't wait to get started!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Pink John.....

You can't go wrong using 16d's for the framing and 8d's for the sheathing. 16's and 8's have been pretty much the default in all of my years.


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