# new computer or just change the parts?



## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Usually you can't just upgrade the CPU. The motherboard needs to support the new CPU.

And most motherboards have a limit on how much RAM they can utilize.

Unless you're a competitive gamer or doing lots of intensive video editing, you won't see much if any improvement in performance going beyond 16 GB RAM or even 8 GB. (If you can have a mobo that supports more than that.)

Yes, most replacement PSUs have standard connections to the mobo.
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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Also found such discussion. Mobo also has capacitors that deteriorates, so cpu alone won't do it. From general discussions, it looks like my desktop already had pretty good life.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

adding ram is cheap and easy - yours probably uses ddr2 which is obsolete but should still be available.

4Gb is enough for general use and u may not see a huge benefit going up to 8 or 16Gb.

the new cpus will not work on a core 2 duo board.

To upgrade the cpu, you'll have to order something on ebay or something.

probably a core quad. It won't be as fast as a new one but should improve performance.

You have to see what the board supports in terms of memory and processors. 


For office tasks and web browsing replacing your hard drive with a SSD will yield a more noticeable improvement than a faster cpu and more ram.

Those old systems can't use SSDs to their full potential without a SATA3 add on card, but can still make a huge difference.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

What is the main complaint of your current system? Is it just old and you want something better or do you feel that it is slow?

If you feel that it is slow, try defragging your disk and removing files. I like to use Crap Cleaner for that. It will find old files and stuff you didn't know was there. That will help speed up your system. Another thing to do is make sure your internet connection is as fast as what your paying for. Google has a speedtest as well as others. 

Also, you can get a better monitor, that will also help your system appear faster. 

If you want to play with your system and build your own, @Nik333 has built a few systems and her latest is quite a system. Liquid Cooled, multiple boxes, fast drives, I am jealous of it. But it can be quite expensive.

If you just want a faster computer, go with a customizable pre-built unit. You can go to Dell, HP and other sites, even Amazon. And if you belong to Costco, check their. 

Unless you do a lot of graphics/video editing, you don't really need a lot of memory but get at least 8 gigs or as much as the MOB can hold. Memory is cheap. Get as fast a processor as you can afford that is available on the machine you like. As for storage, get SS drives. If you get a big main drive, make sure you get an external backup drive and it is set-up to run as soon as you spool up the machine. Get the full version of windows 10 if offered. And get a good video card with a lot of video ram. Even if you don't play games, your kids might. 

I have built a couple of my own machines, but, I tend to look for one that allows me to customize it. And I know that I will be replacing it every 3 years or so. If not sooner. Plus I tend to get laptops now.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

@ktownskier - I don't know if you are joking or meant to write another name.:biggrin2: I'm not a computer person at all.:wink2:


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

@Nik333 Who is the one from Alaska? And, sorry. @Two Knots is from Long Island, right?

I am so sorry I forgot, @Mystriss is the one I speak of. (I hope I got her name correct)


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

As stated above CPU must match the motherboard. Use your tower, PS and other components if they all all match the needs for the new board. Buy ram that is compatible for the MB. Buy as much RAM as you can reasonably afford. 8-16GB with the latter being preferred.



Ditch the old hard drive and go with an SSD.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

This core2duo computer is working well for me, for now. I don't have any concrete complaint about it. It may be the problem is I started reading things.:smile: I bought this about mid 2000? from an acquientance who was closing their computer business. I am assuming this is approaching 20 yrs. I'm not trying to keep up with changing softwares but it feels as if I may be caught looking too long at some point.
I think also my desktop can't take core2quad, as well as mobo components wearing in general. If not capacitors, metals of the cpu's and such. Something called nand? I don't really know what these are, but I am assuming parts of the solid state constructions do wear out. And I'm the kind who doesn't wait until something breaks, if I can help it. My car, example, I replace the parts when consensus says so.:smile:


I think I found the computer I want. Dell inspiron gaming desktop with i5 cpu. It is fairly basic and comes with only 2 ram slots, example. But it is roomy. If I want to replace the cooler and add fans, it will have plenty. It intakes air from the front grill which I can cover with air filter mesh. I tape this on and vacuum when I see a gray dust layer. It's simple and doesn't look like a spaceship. It is lighted inside but I can delete them. It looks simple and modifiable.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Solid state boards can last a very long time and failures are uncommon. CPUs almost never fail unless they're abused.

Power supplies, optical drives and fans fail all the time but are pretty cheap to replace.

core2duo came out in 2006 and was made until 2009 or so. quad came out a little later.

Keep and maintain what you have. 

There's a push to replace equipment just due to age - often the older stuff is better quality.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm not in a rush.:smile: Great thing about diy. I do appreciate the info.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

IMO, to run Win10 on an older machine means running a lean machine.

2 recommended software (2 and a half?) which help me a bunch:

Ccleaner free version (now owned by Avast which means more nagging but still good). Running defaults works to clear old garbage cached junk; running the additional options is even better. Adding CcEnhancer (get from MajorGeeks) makes it powerful. Whenever you add a new software product to your computer, running CcEnhancer will expand Ccleaner to let you clear out even more cached junk. After downloading CcEnhancer, copy to Desktop or move to same folder in Ccleaner folder under Program Files. CcEnhancer must be run as administrator. Ccleaner free version is not active and runs when you start it. Also, free version only runs for current user. Running as administrator is required as separate additional step. The cleaning function is done by deleting and overwriting once. Optionally, secure file deletion (3 passes, 7 passes or 35 passes) are available.

MyDefrag is a powerful defrag tool developed by Jeroen Kessels that works well on older machines. After downloading and installing(MajorGeeks), there will be an Example Scripts folder that expands the product to make it very versatile. My fav is the System Disk Monthly defrag. Just copy from Example Scripts folder and paste into Scripts folder. Then you'll see all optional ways to defrag drives. DON'T USE ON SOLID STATE DRIVES. Copying all into Scripts folder is recommended.

I run a startup clock to monitor boot and can attest that both of the above have kept my system efficient.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

my last laptop was a 13" MBP. core2 duo.
upgraded to 16GB ram, and 512GB SSD.

the SSD made the computer feel new. it's funny having the CPU be the bottleneck. it can be maxed out and still be responsive. the only thing it couldn't do was 720p60fps+ web video. that made it cry.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

I haven't defraged since changing to ssd. My computer demands are fairly low but I think it's the ads. They take more room and processing power to display them now.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Don't defrag if it"s SSD.

Do give Ccleaner (www.ccleaner.com) a try. Download free version and run default settings. The many ads may have been building histories, leaving cookies causing a slow response. Ccleaner in default mode can't hurt. I'd check boxes to clear history, cookies, temp history files, saved passwords (unless you like that), log files etc. Review Applications tab as well.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Clearing cache does not improve performance, it can actually increase page load times.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

\\Rant on:

I think the Dude doesn't really know what he's talking about. What a waste of Cyber space.
128 GB of Memory will cost you about $1400.00 ! And what would you want to do with that? 
Trying to improve a Core 2 Duo is a waste of Time. This is 2019, I don't even know why we are talking about this antique hardware.

Today, we have Intel i9, AMD Threadrippers, SSD's, please?

You can build a fine Computer (no gaming, no 3D rendering, no 4K Videoediting) for about $500 that will run circles around that Core 2 Duo.
I run a watercooled i7 8800K here with 32 GB's of Memory on dual SSD's, that thing is about 5 Years old, but haven't found a reason to upgrade my Hardware because it does everything I throw at it.
If you want to talk about a Core 2 Duo, please start a new Forum, and name it "Vintage Computer equipment" .
\\Rant off.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

From threads in other subforums, I thought you were into renewable energy and conserving things things.

...and yet you want the OP to trash a perfectly good core 2 duo with years of life left? 'cause something new is "faster"?

Electronics manufacturing uses a lot of virgin materials, toxic chemicals, energy and water. At end of life, even if you recycle, very little metal is actually recovered. You need like 10lb of raw material to manufacture 1lb of electronics.

You don't need a lot of processing power or ram to do some web browsing, stream video, run m$ office. There's no real benefit to switching to a i3/i5/i7. Who cares if a new one would be faster, the extra performance doesn't make a difference for the average user.

Resource waste aside, the new stuff is less reliable -> nothing is built like it used to be. 

Plus if you buy a new computer, because microsoft colludes with hardware manufacturers, the average user has to run windows 10 or an alternative to windows. Win 7 needs to be tweaked to run on modern hardware and won't be supported. 

8/8.1/10 = $htshow

Many people hate windows 10 - some who are okay with a confusing start menu + 2 control panels, along with spying, no control over updates seem content with it. I'm not.

I kept my amd xp 2500+ from 2003 (a much slower machine than a core 2 duo) going until 2017, and only because it doesn't support SSE2 and couldn't run modern software any more, play compressed HD streaming video. 

I'm also still using the original 17" CRT from that time, it stays until it becomes unusable.

An older machine can feel like new with enough ram (4gb is enough for general use), SSD added unless it's for running professional 3d cad software or new games. The OP's chip will work just fine for years to come.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Lol,
I ship some 12- 15 old Motherboards with CPU and Memory every other Month to a Guy in Texas, who disassembles them, and sells the Parts on Ebay. He won't even accept Core 2 Duo's anymore. Face it: they are history.
Right now I'm busy upgrading a couple of hundred customers to Win 10. If they don't have Hardware 2015 or newer, I'll replace the Hardware as well.
My Rig is using 11GB of Memory right now, just a few programs open, like Outlook, QuickBooks, Pandora,Snagit,Skype, Antivirus, etc.
With 32 GB of memory I have Room to open Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and rip a UHD Blu-Ray to an Image that will exceed 85 GB without the Workstation to hickup or freeze at all.
Try to open QuickBooks Enterprise 19 with the File some 250 MB size on the Network with only 4 GB of memory.
Yes, I am all for renewable Energy, and my Rig uses less Energy than my previous one, an AMD FX 9550 i believe it was. That Hog was using three times the Energy than what I use now.
And yes, AC is on in my House, but still feed the Power company more Juice.
It is 2019, and not 2009.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

My stuff was bought used on ebay - athlon ii x4, wanted windows xp support to be able to use an old scanner and other things - dual boot.

My threshold for used hardware is a core2duo or equivalent amd -> the p4s really can't even handle much online stuff any more.

Win 10's requirements really aren't high. 



> try to open QuickBooks Enterprise 19 with the File some 250 MB size on the Network with only 4 GB of memory.


The network would be a major limiting factor.

I'm unsure of why a supercomputer is required to run some accounting software and why the files are so large.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

quickbooks is a joke. it's "database" file makes me cry. not sure why it's just a flat file, but it's terrible. no reason to have a reliable back-end i guess.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

> I'm unsure of why a supercomputer is required to run some accounting software and why the files are so large.


I support a Network of 44 Workstations, several File Servers and one QuickBooks Server in one Building.
35 of the 44 Workstations are hammering Data into that QuickBooks file everyday, from 8:00 AM until 5:00 PM.
Database is backed up 3 Times a Day, inc. Cloud backup.

Minimum Requirement for this Task:

AMD A10 7800, 8 GB Memory, some have 16 GB, all Systems run on Corsair 500 GB SSD.
No glitches, no problems, Time is Money. Owner is a happy Camper.

I been running my Computer Business since 2002, and have over 1500 (mostly) happy customers.
YMMV.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

SO I might be a bit late on this, been MIA, but if you used the free windows upgrade it's tied to your hardware so if you replace the CPU your windows copy goes bad. 

I think there's a way to replace a HDD without losing the upgrade through windows, but I can't recall exactly.

Also, typically a new CPU means new Motherboard and memory. Frankly, at that point, if you're not sure what your doing on building computers (compatibility of hardware, sizing, and what you need stat wize) - just buy a premade for 500-800$ and be done with it... (ASUS gaming rigs are pretty good, cyberpower is a decent knockoff version)


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Mystriss said:


> SO I might be a bit late on this, been MIA, but if you used the free windows upgrade it's tied to your hardware so if you replace the CPU your windows copy goes bad.
> 
> I think there's a way to replace a HDD without losing the upgrade through windows, but I can't recall exactly.
> 
> Also, typically a new CPU means new Motherboard and memory. Frankly, at that point, if you're not sure what your doing on building computers (compatibility of hardware, sizing, and what you need stat wize) - just buy a premade for 500-800$ and be done with it... (ASUS gaming rigs are pretty good, cyberpower is a decent knockoff version)


I've always had good luck using the cloning tools that come with the SSDs. usually acronis.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

windows retail can be legally reactivated on completely different hardware.

The oem versions officially can't and even with the same hardware if it's been activated recently you have to call them. I don't know what m$ does for new versions of windows, but for xp the server resets every 180 days or so you can technically reactivate on different hardware. i haven't needed to reactive newer versions of windows.

Now, in this case it doesn't make sense to put a new board a chip. the processor should still be okay for now. when the time comes, makes more sense to get another machine - a lot of the connections have changed.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I did some more research on this because I really haven't looked into it a number of years. Turns out that you can now upgrade your MB and CPU with the /free/ version of windows 10 - however you have to set it up through a microsoft account (rather than the typical 'local' account folks typically use on personal computers) There's a couple of steps involved in switching your account over so I'd suggest bing searching how exactly to do it.


IF you've got an OEM version (aka it was pre-installed on a pre-build system you bought from a company like Dell or HP) then it is tied to the specific hardware of the computer it came with. Upgrading MB and CPU, even if it's possible to do it with various hacks of windows authorization system, is against the license and technically illegal/software piracy.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

most licenses are oem.

few people buy retail, they buy a machine and it comes with the license.

retail licenses have always been allowed to be transferred when you change the board or buy a new machine.

Frankly their anti-piracy bs and license restrictions just inconvenience people who have legit licenses rather than stop piracy.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

user_12345a said:


> most licenses are oem.
> 
> few people buy retail, they buy a machine and it comes with the license.
> 
> ...


True story, which is why I mentioned it being a license violation  The Windows 10 free upgrade didn't used to be under the retail model, but I suppose they had a lot of complaints - that or folks hadn't figured out that it had to be re-authorized through an MS windows account.


Personally, I only use retail versions myself, but that's because I build my own systems and am constantly upgrading everything. I also tend to hold onto OS' for a long, long time. I was using XP until they made me get windows 10 heh On the plus side, I actually like windows 10 better than XP so it turned out to be a win/win for me.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

The reality of the software and hardware business is that the software companies over the past 40 years have relied on more powerful hardware that can run new software that may add a few bells and whistles but nearly always hurts performance. When Microsoft released Vista all PC's took a 50% performance hit compared to Windows XP. Window 7 is 10% faster than Vista according to Microsoft flacks and Windows 10 is more of the same.

When I ran large jobs on a Apple with a Xeon processor and using OS X the jobs completed in half the time as when running on a Xeon equipped PC. The difference was in the efficiency of the operating system.

Plenty of Window users are buying new more powerful computers to run the latest generation of games and also to process large still photo digital files as well as 4K video. 

When one bottleneck is removed like a CPU or Ram, another one or two will appear, like the GPU, bus bandwidth, PCIe support, or data I/O or simply having an adequate power supply. Also sockets change with Intel so different generations of CPU's have different electrical connections even if the pin geography is unchanged.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

In the end its a total racket and the typical user doesn't really see the improvements.

Needing more powerful hardware to do the same thing isn't progress.

The only advancement in the last 10 years I've seen which is truly beneficial: affordable SSDs.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I'll agree with the racket part. It's usually a minimal performance increase for a lot of money - and especially if you don't build it yourself.

In general, I figure you can get _at least_ 5 years out of any "current" system you pick up and still be in "good shape." Logically I tend to favor the buy the best right after it dips from launch and then hang onto it for 10 years "theory," but I've got this gamer ego handicap that often drives me to upgrade earlier than that. 

There have been more advancements than SSDs in the past ten years though - GPUs especially; HDMI, Displayport, advanced PCI-E. The motherboards have gotten way better, the architectures are faster and more robust as well. The memory speeds have greatly increased too. The only real question is "do you need it" right? Again, if you're not doing intense graphics work, you probs don't.

The only exception/clarification I might make is regarding hardware compatibility stuff. Like if you've got some hardware that's flakey, upgrades 'might' solve it. That said I did find that windows 10 fixed a lot of hardware/software (driver) glitches (like my GPU voltage regulation and the fan's not cranking up early enough.) Of course, some older hardware just doesn't work with windows 10 so...


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## sestivers (Aug 10, 2007)

I'm still managing to use a Dell from 2006, it might be one of the first with a 64-bit processor. I had to install a new video card when Win 8 came, and I have added more RAM but I don't know what I must be doing right for it to have been so reliable this long.


I considered upgrading the USB ports but didn't see much benefit for my uses. But I might replace the HDD as recommended...


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

@sestivers Upgrading to SSD should help. Just make sure you've got Sata on your power supply and motherboard - I can't remember when they switched over (think it was 2008)

Sata power and data cable ends:
















If your Dell has IDE (like these below) then you'll need an adapter like this one to run the SSD - https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-Fema...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

To see a major benefit from upgrading to an SSD, the board has to support at least SATA II, ideally III. A 2006 system probably still has SATA I if it has SATA at all.

You can buy a pcie STATA III card if the system has pcie bus.

If it's a pentium 4 though, it's a waste of money, the later p4 chips were terrible - ran hot, poor performance for the clock speed.

IDE interface is limited to 133Mb per second, SATA I 150mb. 

SATA II is 300mb, III is 600.


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## sestivers (Aug 10, 2007)

Well I'm glad I mentioned it; I wouldn't have known that @*Mystriss* :-D

I have AMD Athlon X2 chip and I was mistaken; it's actually from Dec 2007. I don't have my box open right now but I bet I have that ribbon cable, not the SATA interface you show. Sounds like the only real benefit would be drive reliability, not speed, if I need to use that interface adapter?


_Edited to say: I looked at the user manual and it lists four SATA connections and no IDE connections. Does that mean I probably have SATA I? they're named _SATA0, SATA1, SATA2_, and _SATA3 _and are called _serial ATA drive connectors_ on the diagram._


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

What's the model number and make on the motherboard?

or if it's a pre-made pc, what's the model of the entire machine?


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

The Sata0 through 3 are just port #'s - nothing to do with the standards 

Sata I is 1.5gbs (150mbs), Sata II is 3gbs (300mbs), Sata III is 6 gbps (600mbs).

IDE is typically either 100mbs or 133mbs.

If you want the full benefits of modern sata III drives and you have a free PCI slot on the MB you can get one of these - https://www.amazon.com/Express-Cont...8?keywords=pci+sata+III&qid=1568254361&sr=8-8


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

> free PCI slot


u mean PCIe?

plain pci doesn't have enough bandwidth for sata II or III.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Yeah, express. They've been the standard since like 04 and he has a 64 bit board. No need to confuse anymore than we've already here though; I found MBs and it's likely got Sata II (pics might be needed later heh)


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## sestivers (Aug 10, 2007)

You two are a huge help! So here is an actual photo of what I have (Dell Inspiron 531s). Am I bottle-necking myself by having to use the PCIe x1 instead of an x4? Is the card gonna fit in there next to my video card? Looks tight and I will have to remove the VGA connector and its ribbon cable (it's okay because I use the HDMI port on the video card and it has DVI, too).


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Most expansion cards are PCIe x1 so it should work fine.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Aaaah, I really miss the old SCSI Days. You could have 15 Hard Drives on one Chain, but you better address them correctly, otherwise Drives wouldn't show up.
These Towers used more power than a North Korean Nuke, and made Noise like a F/16.
Lol.
And don't you dare touching one of those Drives during operation, they were hot hot hot!

I had 8 of them in one "Ultra-wide SCSI" Chain, 4.3 GB each.
Those were the Days.
Ok, back to topic.
Sorry.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Alright I found your manual for ya - probs help get all the compartments open and such. https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/...esktop/inspiron-531s_owner's manual_en-us.pdf

I'd suggest something like this - https://www.amazon.com/SHINESTAR-Sp..._3?keywords=sata+3+PCIe&qid=1568360008&sr=8-3 It's shorter so it'll give your GPU room to breath and it's bootable so no worries there, plus it comes with the sata III cables and a handy extension for the power if ya need it. OR this one - https://www.amazon.com/IO-Crest-2-p...=pcie+x1+Sata+III+short&qid=1568361448&sr=8-5 which is even shorter for more fan clearance, but doesn't have the power cable extension included (which you may not need - depends on your PSU's cable length.)

You'll also likely need an SSD bracket adapter. I like this brand because it's got air holes for ssd cooling and notches in the frame so you can get the mounting screws in easier - https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Inte...ywords=ssd+3.5+adapter&qid=1568360530&sr=8-13


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## sestivers (Aug 10, 2007)

Cool! I did already have that manual; I'm pretty good at finding those but I had my computer model's service page bookmarked anyway.


Do you have any concerns about something like this one that would let me add USB 3.0 ports at the same time? https://www.amazon.com/Syba-ASMedia-Chipsets-Components-SD-PEX50063/dp/B00MVTB8TK


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

shouldn't pose any issues.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I think it'll work fine, but you'll need a Sata III (6Gbs) cable (I think one came with the 3.5" bracket I'd linked earlier?)

You may also need an adapter cable to get power to your new USB 3.0s (if you ever want to charge a phone/camera/pen/whatever on them.) See if you've got an end (connector) that looks like this coming off your PSU that you can plug into the new card:










If you do not, then I suggest this adapter here which can act like a splitter for a 4pin molex even if ya don't happen to have an unused one - https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-G...=B0002J1KVW&psc=1&refRID=PSBZXE0J18QNWTGNSKWC


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Good job @Mystriss 
I dunno how I missed this thread, probably cause I was busy. Didn't read it all, but definitely looks like you guys got this covered. [emoji106] 

One thing to note is that some computers had trouble booting from SATA - IDE (PATA) adapters. They are cheap enough to try though. Most motherboards could boot off a sata expansion card, but windows often needed some help during installation. (if it's an older card, it should be OK now though.) 

We should start a new thread and show off our systems, after my new vega comes in. The last one died in a water leak accident. [emoji23]

PS. To the OP and anyone else who cares, the lifespan of silicon is based it's operating temp. A research group put out a graph a while back, I'll have to find it. Basically it said that if it ran below 30*C they expected it to last over 100 years, as long as there was no abuse. At 40*C that's dropped to below 30-40 years. At 50*C that's dropping again to below 10 years. At 60*C it was below 5 years. That's the reason why laptops and GPUs that are on "silent" mode will start their fans at about that temp. I think at 90*C they were expecting to only last 2-3 years. Most GPUs and some major computer brands keep their CPUs in that territory. That's one of the many reasons why you're buying another fruit computer every 4 years or so. I use water cooling for the low noise benefit. Otherwise, I've run my computers so that the fans picked up at around 30-40*C ( fans would be at least 75%, no higher then 50*C. 60*C is my highest 100% Mark.)

Cheers!


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

supers05 said:


> Good job @Mystriss
> I dunno how I missed this thread, probably cause I was busy. Didn't read it all, but definitely looks like you guys got this covered. [emoji106]
> 
> One thing to note is that some computers had trouble booting from SATA - IDE (PATA) adapters. They are cheap enough to try though. Most motherboards could boot off a sata expansion card, but windows often needed some help during installation. (if it's an older card, it should be OK now though.)
> ...


my laptop is from 2012 and it holds temps in the 80-90C range (idle or load). I don't think those numbers reflect the real world.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

Here are my thoughts. 

As long as you keep your system clean, both free from dust inside and out, and free from unused programs, unused files, etc.. Keep it defragged (as long as it is HDD and not SDD) any computer will last you a long time. As long as the OS is still supported. 

If you feel your computer is running slow, degrag it, run crap cleaner, check for malware and other nasty things, check for updates and check your network connectivity. Reboot your router. Log into your modem/router and check for updates. And if you haven't logged in before, take a look around. You can find a lot of fun stuff. And you can check to see how many devices are connected. 

And, when you feel your computer is slow, the monitor/screen is fuzzy looking, the keyboard feels sticky, etc... and you think you need a new computer/laptop. Go and get one. What one person thinks is the best thing since the Cray 1, someone else thinks it's a brick.

If you are looking at a laptop, USE the keyboard. Make sure it works for you. I liked my keyboard at first, now, not so much. The screen is good. I have watched movies on it. The sound sucks though. But I use headphones anyways. 

Some people like laptops, some don't. It's a personal thing. I have used Laptops for 20 years and I like the convenience. Every once in a while I think about building a desk top, and doing some gaming. And then something else happens.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

u3b3rg33k said:


> my laptop is from 2012 and it holds temps in the 80-90C range (idle or load). I don't think those numbers reflect the real world.


You leave your laptop on without letting it sleep/hibernate. That timeframe was 24/7 operation.12hrs off will mean more then double the life expectancy. 

A laptop shouldn't have any problem cooling off during idle, unless it's a Mac. (they like silent profiles) 

I also assume that's the core temps. The die temps will be lower. The socket temps even lower. The MB temps the lowest. Depending on where the heat sinks are, you often get hot spots on the outer surface of the laptop. As the silicon breaks down, you'll get bad results in math, but it's will appear to the end user as a glitch every now and then. Very easy to dismiss it as a random glitch of a program. It takes some significant damage before things become fairly unstable. 

It was an older study and manufacturing has improved. I suspect that modern chips will have higher tolerances. 

Cheers!


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

user_12345a said:


> From threads in other subforums, I thought you were into renewable energy and conserving things things.
> 
> ...and yet you want the OP to trash a perfectly good core 2 duo with years of life left? 'cause something new is "faster"?
> 
> ...


I gotta call moose hockey on some of this. Some of the stuff you have written in this particular post screams of _"See, I can keep my old car running with bailing wire and twine. It gets me to church on Sunday and to the diner every morning for coffee with the boys. It doesn't go as fast as those fancy new cars, gut it gets the job done"_

While there is nothing wrong with doing that, to say that people don't need to upgrade because you don't is, well, dumb. And to say that old hardware is better than new hardware, umm, how much new hardware have you actually bought?

I remember having a Core2Duo, about 5 computers ago. And a 17" CRT? Really? What is the refresh rate of that beast? Can you even see anything beyond the burned in images?

When I dock my laptop, I have 2 21" monitors plus my 17" laptop screen. And I wish I had bigger screens. 

Anytime you switch/upgrade to a new OS, there is a learning curve. But to say you don't like it because you have no control over updates. Umm, do you have an Android or an Apple phone? When did you stop allowing upgrades on those? Actually, I don't think you can, as they will force them through at some point. 

Yes, the OP's computer can last a few years more if he wants to baby it, and take extra care of the peripherals and internals. But, it sounds like he doesn't want to. 

I apologize in advance for what seems to be a personal attack. It is not meant that way. It is more of a critique of your antiquated views on computers. 

I like most of your thoughts and views on things, just not these particular ones.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

Deja-vue said:


> Aaaah, I really miss the old SCSI Days. You could have 15 Hard Drives on one Chain, but you better address them correctly, otherwise Drives wouldn't show up.
> These Towers used more power than a North Korean Nuke, and made Noise like a F/16.
> Lol.
> And don't you dare touching one of those Drives during operation, they were hot hot hot!
> ...


ahhh, you bring me back to the good old days. Back when our software for call tracking ran as a client/server with the database on a main frame. When 4.3 GB actually meant something. It was a SQL DB and you could actually do quick inquiries to get some quick info out. 

Select * from X where name is Johnson and City is Anandale

I also like your comments from earlier. You run a nice shop. I started in the bad old days of IT where PC's were only just being accepted. And had 64 K of ram. Yes, that was K as in Kilobytes. And no hard drives until the XT came out. 

Oh God, I am really old!!


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

ktownskier said:


> But to say you don't like it because you have no control over updates. Umm, do you have an Android or an Apple phone? When did you stop allowing upgrades on those? Actually, I don't think you can, as they will force them through at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> ]


Lol. I use lineageOS, so yes, very possible to only update when you feel like it. It also means I can keep a 5 year old phone running up to date. Windows 10 can also have its updates stopped, although I haven't had any issues with individual updates. I only delay non security upgrades. 

As for the Dinosaur hardware, it's interesting to play with but extremely inefficient power wise. While ARM based cpus are the benchmark on performance on low power systems, Ryzens are pushing the Performance/watt metric. Intel will keep lagging behind, but still light years ahead of that old hardware. it's burning 2-4x the electricity as newer hardware, doing the same thing. Unless you have some kind of renewable electricity source, that means a whole lot more pollution. (that includes the motherboard, storage, and gpu, etc.) At this point, it's probably a draw over which was worse, upgrading or burning the extra electricity. 

Cheers!


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

supers05 said:


> You leave your laptop on without letting it sleep/hibernate. That timeframe was 24/7 operation.12hrs off will mean more then double the life expectancy.
> 
> A laptop shouldn't have any problem cooling off during idle, unless it's a Mac. (they like silent profiles)
> 
> ...


always core temps - that's the part that does the work. mine is a mac and is on and open unless it's in my bag in the car going to/from work.

I also have a heavily overclocked i7-970 that has no issues. I'd be happy to show you results of 24 hours of prime95 as validation for either. My PC runs [email protected] 24/7 as well.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

I don't want to hijack this thread any longer - main response in new one.



> While ARM based cpus are the benchmark on performance on low power systems, Ryzens are pushing the Performance/watt metric. Intel will keep lagging behind, but still light years ahead of that old hardware.


I thought the intels were more efficient chips - doing more work per clock cycle per core, burning less power.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, I just broke down and updated my "aging" Win 7 System from 2012.
Some Customer bought all the old Parts for $500.

What's in the new?

Motherboard is a Gigabyte X399 Aorus Pro.
64 GB Memory.
AMD Threadripper 1920, 12 Core, 24 CPU's.
Corsair 500 GB M2A SSD
LG Blu-Ray Burner with reversed Firmware (Rips UHD Blu-Rays)
DEEPCOOL Captain 240 RGB Liquid CPU Cooler.
Nvidia Gforce GTX 750 Ti @ 4K (Not much of a Gamer, but have an Xbox one X)
etc, etc.
Still using 2K Monitors, the 34 Inch Ultra-wide Monitors from LG Side by Side.
When they come out with true 4K Monitors in Ultra wide I'll jump on them.

I'll be OK for the next few Years.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

What do you do with 64Gb of ram?


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

No gain for the user with Windows 10 but a good revenue stream for Microsoft who as part of the license sucks your data and activity and sells it to multiple third parties. If I was going with Windows 10 for any reason it would be the Pro version that provides some control over when Microsoft bug patches are applied. Too many people have started their computers in the morning only to find that their applications no longer worked thanks to an update the night before, or even worse have found that the update is still in progress and they need to wait for it to finish. There is a reason why very few companies went with Vista and why Windows 7 had to be rushed out the door and why still Windows 10 is not implemented on 100% of corporate computers.


Hardware has improved tremendously over the past 40 years but the last real operating system upgrade was Apple's OS X. Windows still has NT 3.51 at it core kernel which is why a device plugged into a USB port can still crash the computer.


Building your own PC is great for those with time to kill but it will cost more money and if there is a problem you are on your own. What does differ is the post sale support by companies with Apple at the top and Lenevo slightly below but both using USA based technical people, and at the bottom are Dell and Aseus with their support people based in India and China.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

user_12345a said:


> What do you do with 64Gb of ram?


Several Reasons:

I render some 4K movie clips, and like plenty of memory left while I do other things.
I run Win 10 Professional on this Rig, and have several Virtual machines running for testing, like Windows Server 2012, Suse and even still Win XP to rescue or revive older programs for my Customers.
:wink2:


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

> Building your own PC is great for those with time to kill but it will cost more money and if there is a problem you are on your own. What does differ is the post sale support by companies with Apple at the top and Lenevo slightly below but both using USA based technical people, and at the bottom are Dell and Aseus with their support people based in India and China.


If all the components are bought from the same place and it's a good company you can get support to deal with hardware problems.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

user_12345a said:


> If all the components are bought from the same place and it's a good company you can get support to deal with hardware problems.


Yes. Amazon.com.
:wink2:


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

ive got ripped off by amazon, not all sellers sell original stuff, a lot of counterfeit or refurbished items, now i just buy from reputable online computer stores


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

it's best to find a good brick and mortar store so you can get support if there are any issues with what you bought. particularly for complete systems and major components.


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## Arky217 (Aug 18, 2010)

carpdad said:


> More reading brings up a question. I'm using windows 10 home free upgrade version 64 bits. It turns out 64 bit version can use over 120gb ram! So I thought why not replace the cpu, if I can find new, and add little more ram? CPU because I read that cpu life (at the physical, atomic level) is 20-30 yrs. If I can replace with new cpu, aren't I getting another 20 yrs? Or does the life span also refers to other chips on the mobo?
> 
> 
> Also, if psu quits, what about the after market psu? Will it have all necessary power cables with matching plugs for the old mobo?


**************************************************************

Seeing as how this thread is now 2 months old, the original poster has probably already did whatever concerning his computer, however, for the benefit of other readers of this thread, I make the following suggestions.

The OP seems somewhat confused on computer terminology (i.e., 120GB ram). (My first computer had the humongous amount of 4KB of ram)

For web browsing, which is probably mostly of what 90+% of computer users do, 4GB of ram is plenty sufficient.
And a fast core 2 duo (i.e., 3.0GHz) is also plenty of CPU. 

However, the absolute best thing you can do by far, for improving the performance and reliability of your computer, is to switch to a Linux operating system regardless of whether your computer is old or new.

The second best thing to do for improving the performance is to invest in a solid state drive (SSD); you can buy a 120GB now for just $20.

If you want to upgrade from a core 2 duo, however, the most logical step, financial wise, is to buy a refurbished unit.

Here, for example, is an outstanding buy from Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16883288545?Item=N82E16883288545

The above item comes with a 4 core, i5-3470 which has a Passmark rating of 6724 and a single thread rating (most important for most users) of 1915.
It also features 4GB ram and a SSD, all for just $126. (hard to beat)

Of course, you could build your own and enjoy the satisfaction of doing so, but you will spend far more money to build a system even no faster than the one above.

By the way, if you want to try Linux, the following are my recommendations.

1st choice - Linux Lite
2nd choice - Xununtu
3rd choice - Peppermint

I've been using Linux for about 15 years and, having tried out nearly all the top distros, I have narrowed down the 3 above as probably the best choice for someone coming from Windows.

Just a few of the advantages of Linux over Windows are:
* It's FREE
* Software is FREE
* It's FASTER
* It's inherently more secure.
* Anti-virus & anti-malware programs are basically unnecessary.
* Much more configurable to your tastes.
* (Did I mention that it's FASTER)

(At any rate, even if Linux had NO advantages over Windows, switching would be worth it just to get out from under the spying and choke hold that Microsoft has on Windows users.)


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Deja-vue said:


> Well, I just broke down and updated my "aging" Win 7 System from 2012.
> Some Customer bought all the old Parts for $500.
> 
> What's in the new?
> ...


mmm threadripper...

How do you like that Gigabyte Aorus board with the 1920? I've been eyeballing this one https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-X39...words=x399+motherboard&qid=1572646608&sr=8-12 for a 1950.


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## jecapereca (Mar 28, 2019)

carmusic said:


> ive got ripped off by amazon, not all sellers sell original stuff, a lot of counterfeit or refurbished items, now i just buy from reputable online computer stores



Know many people who have been in the same situation. Plenty of false reviews too.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

@Mystriss, I love these Gigabyte Boards, hundreds and hundreds sold.
(the A320M-S2H).

Your Choice is the Designare, which I like but don't need the wireless Feature or dual Lans..
I picked the Aorus because of the faster, stronger Killer Network support.
These Boards are both [email protected], in my opinion. Take Note, ASUS.:vs_mad:

I dropped Asus when they screwed me on a single Board return, never fixed a leaking Capacitor. That was over 10 years ago.
Installed probably over 1200 Gigabyte Boards, lol.

I have always used Gigabyte for Servers, you simply can't go wrong.
The only problem I have right now with the Aorus is that I set it to TURN ON automatically, it has that Feature, but it doesn't work.
I haven't had time to call Gigabyte yet, too busy but will do that eventually.
Perhaps a Firmware upgrade will fix this.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Oh, I guess the Aorus Extreme came out. (bummer)
And @Mystriss, why not go with the TR 1220 first, and when the Prices are coming down a bit, go with the TR 2950?
That's my Plan, anyways. I can always sell the 1920.
And remember go with highly clocked Memory, Dual or Quad channel and use them on both Banks.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Deja-vue said:


> Oh, I guess the Aorus Extreme came out. (bummer)
> And @Mystriss, why not go with the TR 1220 first, and when the Prices are coming down a bit, go with the TR 2950?
> That's my Plan, anyways. I can always sell the 1920.
> And remember go with highly clocked Memory, Dual or Quad channel and use them on both Banks.


I do need to do a bit more research on the 2950, initial reviews I've read seem to imply that it's not _that_ much better than the 1950 for the kinds of stuff I'm doing (mostly rendering stuff these days.) 

I did read that the TR2950 is better for gaming then the 1950, but they're both still dwarfed by the Ryzen 7. I'm also not really gaming so much anymore... the games I'm currently playing were designed for mobile so my current nearly 10 year old rig chews them up like candy :vs_laugh:


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, like I mentioned before, I don't do PC Gaming anymore. The XBox one X on a 82 Inch Screen playing at 4K just looks too good to even try to match this on a PC.
The TR2950 is definitely on my to-do list for sure.

I had a Customer inquire about the new Ryzen 9, if I get the Job I'll be reporting it.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

What people fail to realize is that any PC component that costs them$60, cost the manufacturer less than $15. There is no way to buy all the parts at full retail and save money over an off the shelf computer. 

One thing I learned more than 20 years ago was that when you need support for a problem the tech people need to be able to either have prior experience or a near identical computer that they can use to replicate the problem. If build it yourself then they cannot provide any assistance. 

For example I have a Sony XQD card reader that attaches to a USB 3 port and if it is attached when the computer boots the boot will fail. An obscure problem and I known that with Windows anything connected to an Ethernet or USB or serial port can impact the kernel and cause problems. 

To me it is like the guy who wants to build a hot rod in their garage. They may have a fun time doing this but the end product is going to be inferior in just about every way imaginable and it is not going to be cheaper than getting a factory built vehicle.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I don't particularly recommend folks build their own systems - not that it's hard, but there are indeed tricks that are helpful to know as far as compatibility and software conflicts and such.

However, there is no way my system is "inferior" to any crap you can buy at a store; no way in heck...


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

Calson said:


> What people fail to realize is that any PC component that costs them$60, cost the manufacturer less than $15. There is no way to buy all the parts at full retail and save money over an off the shelf computer.
> 
> One thing I learned more than 20 years ago was that when you need support for a problem the tech people need to be able to either have prior experience or a near identical computer that they can use to replicate the problem. If build it yourself then they cannot provide any assistance.
> 
> ...



That is true for cars but not for computers, ive always build my computers from separated parts and saved a lot of money compared to similar dell prebuilt models. Of course i buy all my parts while there is some rebates and don't buy from high price local stores


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## injvstice (Oct 30, 2010)

Just to clarify, x64 can "address" 16 exabytes of RAM. 


You will be hard press to find a motherboard at consumer level that can do more than 32GBs. Primarily the chipset. However there is also a practical limitation (memory only comes up in certain DIMM sizes, and if you have 4-slots on your mother board, you will be limited by the largest DIMM you can fit in those slots)


There are motherboards/chipsets that can do a lot of memory (for example, HP Z8 can have up to 3TB of RAM. But now you are talking dual Xeon CPUs (not Core) with a total of 56 cores. Good luck filling that shopping card at Fry's, and without proper cooling it will probably burst into flames anyway!



Do you even need something like that? If you don't already know the answer, then you absolutely don't need it.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

> Just to clarify, x64 can "address" 16 exabytes of RAM.


That is true, but Windows 10 seems to be the "Bottleneck" here:

Windows 10 Home supports a maximum of 128GB of RAM, while Pro supports a cool 2TB.
:vs_cool:


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Calson said:


> What people fail to realize is that any PC component that costs them$60, cost the manufacturer less than $15. There is no way to buy all the parts at full retail and save money over an off the shelf computer.
> 
> One thing I learned more than 20 years ago was that when you need support for a problem the tech people need to be able to either have prior experience or a near identical computer that they can use to replicate the problem. If build it yourself then they cannot provide any assistance.
> 
> ...


Most name brand machines are built with junky components.

Dell, HP, lenovo use the cheapest boards they can source and skimp on the power supply, video card (most are integrated) as well as fans. 

CPU, ram, hard drive sell the machine to ignorant consumers. 

They're disposable, made to be junked after 2 to 3 years.

It's just how home builders use the cheapest materials, do terrible work and spend money on granite countertops.

A custom built pc - whether you build it yourself or it gets put together by a local store can be far better quality than brand name.

It's best to buy from a small, reputable store if you don't know much and the store provides the support.

The big manufacturers do get volume discounts on parts and os licenses, but it's not worth it.

I don't need tech support for the entire machine, only for a component if it's faulty and you can get that from the retailer if it's new - if not, the manufacturer.


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