# synthetic oil



## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

There are minor differences, but for every day driving, your engine is not going to notice the difference.

If you're racing a 750 HP NASCAR engine, sure, you might be more selective.

Just be sure to get the exact oil type per your manufacturer's specs.
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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

A buddy of mine has a 2007 Dodge Ram and has tried many different oils, with Amsoil being the first and other synthetics and conventionals to follow. He sends the used oil in for analysis after each change and has come to the conclusion that, as long as it meets the specifications of the manufacturer, oil is oil.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

If I had Navigator with a 3.5L, twin turbo, believe me, it would get full synthetic and an oil change every 3K miles. Mine is a 5.4 V8 so it gets conventional oil every 4K. It runs like a monster. Acceleration is unreal, for as big as it is. I read the turbo is less than 7 seconds, zero to 60. Synthetic for sure!


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

This. It is way more complicated than in the old days. For instance, Chevy just changed the recommendation for Corvettes from 5W-30 Mobil 1 to 0W-40 Mobil 1. But it has to be Dexos 2 and ESP (emission system protection). The new stuff is rare and $10 per qt, while you can get the older Euro spec non Dexos 0W-40 Mobil 1 at WalMart for $23 for 5 qts. May or may not be a ton of difference in the oils, but if you have a warranty to maintain, better follow the mfgs requirements.



ZZZZZ said:


> Just be sure to get the exact oil type per your manufacturer's specs.
> .
> .


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

raylo32 said:


> It is way more complicated than in the old days.



I agree with what ZZZZZ said and Raylo reiterated; things aren't what they used to be, and today, more than back then, the manufacturer's spec is important. The 6.4 in my 2017 Ram uses 0W40 oil, and I had never run across 0W anything before so that kind of piqued my interest. I found 0W40 on any number of shelves, mostly for imports, but none with that spec. And looking at the manufacturer's sites, produced "nothing for this application" or whatever. Turns out that, so far anyway, Pennzoil is my friend because they're the only ones who market this weight oil with the correct spec number.I suppose one could try something else, and maybe even not have a problem, but vehicles cost too much to own and operate as it is, and I've seen enough lubrication related problems over the years that I'm sticking to the book on something like this. Otherwise, this criteria met, I've never adopted a stance of one brand over another.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Oil thread!!












Here's answer to all questions:


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

I run a UOA on every oil change. been running M1 0W40 for over 100k miles with plenty of operating conditions that aren't friendly - track days, short trips in cold weather, etc. 15K OCI.

every time the Oil report is glowing. 

The Force is strong with modern oils. especially 0W-xx oils. there's no such thing as an oil too thin when it's cold.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Just go ahead and satisfy the need to spend your money.

Seriously.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

If you look at the additive packages, T-Fout data, and TBN of synthetic oils, they are usually superior to your average conventional oil. You can also look at stuff like wear scar data. 

In my world, I run AMSoil because I get it at a preferred vendor pricing and that brings it down to very close to the numbers on good conventional oil. On a modest sized motor (4 quarts), I am maybe out an additional $1.25 a quart. In that case, I am paying the extra $5 for the oil that has better lubricity, flows better at start up, has a better Noack volatility, and keeps the engine cleaner.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Very few synthetic oils are actually synthetic they are highly refined dino oils . Mobil 1 back in the day was a great oil and was a true synthetic . Then they lost a lawsuit to Castrol claiming that what Castrol was selling as synthetic was not a true synthetic . After losing the law suit Mobil decided to go the same route and went to a highly refined dino oil . I am a Porsche owner and Mobil 1 is a recommended oil from Porsche ........... I don't use it and never will .

It's a personal choice based on my engine guru who built my motor and years of lab test results . I do agree that lab analysis is the only way to know what an oil and its additives are doing/holding up . I also tend to use heavy equipment companies for oil analysis ( example Catepillar ) vs. someone like Blackstone as I find the heavy equipment folks do a better job of analysis . Again just my opinion . 

Today's oils in general regardless of conventional/refined dino synthetic/true synthetic are far superior than oils of the past . But like anything else some are better than others .


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

ron45 said:


> Just go ahead and satisfy the need to spend your money.
> 
> Seriously.


when excellent oil is <$5/qt, who cares? my engine lists out at $19k, so $45/yr on oil doesn't even register.

M1 0W40 is a GTL oil afaik, so it's as synthetic as it needs to be (and really who cares how it's made if it gets the job done?).


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

The Signature Series AMSoil is a Group IV base stock.


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## shirbon (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for all the input. was never asking about conventional oil, only the difference between brands of synthetic oil. seems to be a lot of rabbit trails leading off here to. I think I will go with Havoline synthetic instead of the Mobil 1 I have been using as it is about half the price and probably less than amsoil to. Thanks again, appreciate all the input.


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## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

Cheap good oil, Amazon Basic Synthetic 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

The Amazon stuff is pretty good.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Curious to know.

Thanks for the info.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm not pulling up any Amazon Basics motor oil in a Brands filter. Gotta link to share?

Edit: Whoops, spoke too soon! Never mind!


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I use synthetic oil in everything I have cept 2 cycle engines. I use either the cheap NAPA or cheap walmart synthetic oils. I also change it when it gets dirty and don't wait until the 'oil change light' comes on. Every 3000 miles. Yes it can go longer but it's dirty. I change out camshafts and lifters a lot on customers vehicles because they wait 7500 miles or when the oil change light comes on. When the oil comes out, it's black. Not good! The oil filter stops filtering at around 3000 miles. Now the good oil filters might go further but what oil change place put on good filters. They don't. They use the cheapest filter to maximize profits. Just sayin... :vs_cool:


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I used to buy into all the BS.

Until you put 60 - 150 miles per day on a vehicle and sometimes even more.

I change the oil/filter/etc., every 20,00 - 30,000 miles.

My 2003 Silverado has close to 300,000 miles and it still runs strong and looks good.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

You are the exception and not the rule though Ron.


The fact that you put that kind of mileage on a car means that the car is probably up to temp for good long trips and it therefore burning off the contaminants (mostly acid formation and water) from the oil.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

i do about 15k mi/yr. average about 40miles/day. my last UOA said I could try 20k miles. 15k just so happens to be about annual, but if I drove more I wouldn't hesitate to go to a longer OCI.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Windows on Wash said:


> You are the exception and not the rule though Ron.
> 
> 
> The fact that you put that kind of mileage on a car means that the car is probably up to temp for good long trips and it therefore burning off the contaminants (mostly acid formation and water) from the oil.


I believe it's from neglect and abuse of the vehicle, not an oil issue.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ron45 said:


> I believe it's from neglect and abuse of the vehicle, not an oil issue.



I would respectfully disagree with you, as would the chemists. 

If you are driving 100 miles a day, the car is getting well into the operating temperature range. At that point, the oil is good and hot and the chemicals in oil that accumulate via short trips are being burned off in that process. 



If someone that did short trips and waited 20-30K to change their oil, I can promise you that they would not have nearly the likelihood to get to that 300K mark as you are.


At some point, oils and the additive packages break down. This is just known chemistry. The fact that your trips are longer and reaching more operational temperatures has everything to do with your oil actually lasting.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Brainbucket said:


> I use synthetic oil in everything I have cept 2 cycle engines. I use either the cheap NAPA or cheap walmart synthetic oils. I also change it when it gets dirty and don't wait until the 'oil change light' comes on. Every 3000 miles. Yes it can go longer but it's dirty. I change out camshafts and lifters a lot on customers vehicles because they wait 7500 miles or when the oil change light comes on. *When the oil comes out, it's black. Not good! *The oil filter stops filtering at around 3000 miles. Now the good oil filters might go further but what oil change place put on good filters. They don't. They use the cheapest filter to maximize profits. Just sayin... :vs_cool:


been running 15k+ OCIs for 5+ years. still waiting for my engine to needs new camshafts :vs_laugh:

have you ever looked at oil after it's been in the engine for say less than 3k miles? i think you'll find "it's black" virtually right away.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Windows on Wash said:


> I would respectfully disagree with you, as would the chemists.
> 
> If you are driving 100 miles a day, the car is getting well into the operating temperature range. At that point, the oil is good and hot and the chemicals in oil that accumulate via short trips are being burned off in that process.
> 
> ...


I still disagree.

I do it with all my vehicles and they are driven way less miles.

The only one/s I have changed every year just before summer is our Low Riders. The 07 still has the original plugs that are getting changed in two weeks. 
The bikes are air cooled.

Don't abuse your vehicles and they won't abuse you.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ron45 said:


> I still disagree.
> 
> I do it with all my vehicles and they are driven way less miles.
> 
> ...



I definitely appreciate you feedback and opinion. The chemistry says otherwise though. 



We have done back to back sampling on the same oil driven the same miles, but over different time periods and intervals. 



The best thing you can do is drive a good distance with the car up to temp. That is why the long trips do well. 



Oil isn't just about cleanliness. The reality is that a decent filter will do well enough to keep any of the damaging size particles out of circulation. When the oil begins to break down on a chemical level, the additive packages take a beating, TBN goes acidic, and the engine will be subject to more wear. 

You are talking about some great motors in the LS platform there by the way. I also had a 1985 Celebrity with the I4 motor that would have easily made it to 300+ (broke the trans at 278K) with modest maintenance at best. 



Do that on a European motor or a VW turbo motor and see what happens. You won't make 100K on that thing. 

The oil additive industry isn't snake oil. We have seen before and after results that work. The BG line up of products...works. We have done before and after compression testing...and it works. 



I am not saying yours isn't running and might not go another 100K, what I am saying is that it would go longer if it had better and more regularly changed oil in it. It all comes down to a financial calculation at the end of the day. You know how you drive the car and you can drive it easy. That absolutely does translate to longevity. 



For fleet vehicles...they are getting fresh, synthetic oil, every 5K and BG services on intervals. Employees beat the crap out of stuff.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

u3b3rg33k said:


> been running 15k+ OCIs for 5+ years. still waiting for my engine to needs new camshafts
> 
> have you ever looked at oil after it's been in the engine for say less than 3k miles? i think you'll find "it's black" virtually right away.



Only in diesels.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

honestly I'd be tempted to run longer OCIs than I do now if sampling was easier. as it is the UOA simply confirms that what I'm doing (using oil life monitor) is working fine, if not conservative. as it is it wouldn't be worth the $35 sample (no ROI on avoiding additional oil changes), but no reason to change it any sooner, so I don't. not even for track use. I just top it off before hand. 



Windows on Wash said:


> I definitely appreciate you feedback and opinion. The chemistry says otherwise though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm always amazed at the tiny filters Subaru puts on things. they're the size of the filters on our full pressure lawn equipment (15-25hp). my car has a relatively large filter (to other vehicles), and I inspect it thoroughly for damage on each oil change. it always comes out looking nearly as good as it was when it went in (if not a bit darker). 

i've done 90k worth of oil changes since I got my car at 85k, so I'm nearly at 100k. I have a giant lazy german V8, with the lowest hp/L of anything they've made in recent history (it was slotted into a market segment). 

the only thing I do is keep my RPM low until the engine is getting up to temp - if it's convenient. water hits 120F in a few minutes in all but the coldest weather, oil temp lags behind significantly unless there's a lot of load. I moved significantly closer to my current job than I used to be and my OUAs are pretty consistent, even with a majority of the year being shorter drives than I'd like them to be.

as for VW turbos, well, avoid the sludgefactory that was the 1.8T at all costs. not sure what they did there but dear god.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

u3b3rg33k said:


> I'm always amazed at the tiny filters Subaru puts on things.


I wish I could get massive oil filters for my Subaru and Miatas, like the FL1A filters old 5.0HO Mustangs used to have. I mean, I guess I could rig up some kind of remote filter...


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

huesmann said:


> I wish I could get massive oil filters for my Subaru and Miatas, like the FL1A filters old 5.0HO Mustangs used to have. I mean, I guess I could rig up some kind of remote filter...



You can easily rig up a remote filter or a dual bypass if you want to. If you want to go that route...call AMSoil. 



The other thing you can do is to just look up the thread pitch and sizing on the filter. WIX has a great reference on this or you can call them direct and see if they have a filter cross reference. They typically have a +1 size option on many filters. Keep in mind, if your filter because obstructed by debris in that current filter to where it becomes problematic...the motor is wiped at that point. 



If you don't know pressure drops between fresh oil and older oil (i.e. at changes), you are fine.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

Synthetics are all basically the same as they all need to meet the API specification in terms of the base stock used and the overall performance. When engine lubrication requirements change then do does the API standard in 2017. Blends also meet the new standard but a 100% dino oil cannot with the low viscosity end of the range. 

What does vary is the amount of advertising dollars spend by companies to promote their products so they can sell them at premium prices. I am old enough to remember when STP was promoted as "the racer' edge" and times have not changed at all with respect to snake oil promoters hawking their products. 

With diesel engines the environment is much different and the additive mix is important but even here the lab testing of the less expensive Pennzoil and Valvoline oils have been shown to be superior to premium oils selling for twice as much like Amsoil for example that is at the bottom of the heap. 

With a pre-2017 vehicle any synthetic blend is going to work as well as any other if it meets the API specification. Quick lube places are not likely to have two different oils so the ones for newer engines should be fine with older engines and you may as well go where the price is the lowest. 
Two areas where people err is with respect to using miles driven alone or changing the oil at shorter intervals with the hope of maximizing the protection of the engine. Hours of operation is the primary factor and a vehicle used for short trips of 30 minutes or less should have its oil changed after few miles than a vehicle that is driven 90% of the time with trips of an hour or longer on average. 

The other aspect of oil filtration is that an oil filter is least effective when it is brand new and before any loading has taken place. This is also the case with air filters whether on a car or with used with a furnace or AC unit. A car oil filter needs to work for up to 7500 miles of driving and so it cannot filter 100% of the particles when new and still provide adequate oil flow at the end of its duty. Changing oil more often can actually be detrimental to the car and of course to the environment.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Calson said:


> The other aspect of oil filtration is that an oil filter is least effective when it is brand new and before any loading has taken place. This is also the case with air filters whether on a car or with used with a furnace or AC unit. *A car oil filter needs to work for up to 7500 miles of driving and so it cannot filter 100% of the particles when new and still provide adequate oil flow at the end of its duty. Changing oil more often can actually be detrimental to the car and of course to the environment.*


better last more than 7.5k, my OCI is 15k+!


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I've stopping changing the oil in my 1999 Montero with 195,000 miles on it. It loses about a quart ever 1,000 miles, so by the time 5,000 miles rolls around, it always has fresh oil.

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

(I've been waiting to get the leak fixed until the next time I have to bring it in to a shop for service, but the thing just keeps on rolling. Except for the leak, it runs perfectly. It'll be due for a timing belt in about 3 years.)
.
.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

if you leak enough oil, and occasionally change the filter, you really don't need to drain it.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

u3b3rg33k said:


> if you leak enough oil, and occasionally change the filter, you really don't need to drain it.



Describes just about every vehicle I owned as a kid.


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