# Help with patio cover and house attachment



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Are you worried about the lack of pitch?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Eight inches below the windows. remove the siding right up to the windows so you can install flashing before you re install that one.
If the ends of you deck will be subject to water you should remove some siding on each end and install flashing behind the paper and over the ledger. 4 ft. min.

The deck framing looks great.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No location in your profile, so hard to suggest what needs to be done.
No ledger board on the side of the house.
No rafter hangers.
Going to have to remove another row of siding to install the needed flashing.
Why is the rafter on the inside of the post?
Did you get a building permit for this?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

joecaption said:


> No location in your profile, so hard to suggest what needs to be done.
> No ledger board on the side of the house.
> No rafter hangers.
> Going to have to remove another row of siding to install the needed flashing.
> ...


Joe. he just has it up there to see what he has.:wink2:


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies so far! 

Yeah the pitch is what I am trying to fix. Right now I'm just shy of a 2/12, messed up somewhere, so that's what I am trying to fix. 

The ledger will be 2x12 pt snugged just over the top of current siding at bottom with flashing on top. That uncovered spot is the house band and will be using ledgerloks. I'll have roughly 38 inches to window with some wiggle room for flashing. What's up there right now is a piece of 2x8 to mock things up, and post has a 2x10 in original location for beams. I will need to raise that another 5 inch which will mess up that angle even more... I'll be using simpson hangers and hurricane ties if I can figure this all out. Bird mouth on rafters crossing beam. 

So I'd like to raise the roof up higher but then I get above the band and worry about using studs? Lumber yard said I can pull the whole house wall down? 

It's in Washington state, so a lot of rain. Was going to put on ice guard underlayment I researched.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

I guess I'm looking to confirm if I can install a ledger safely above the band joist, spans will be roughly 16.5-17' with overhang. And also if there is a way I can use the ledger angle I have now and then scissor or lift up somehow from those rafters with a riser to pitch the roof up. It's mainly about the security of things with my family under it etc. It would be close to a mono truss but without the cost of it.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> I guess I'm looking to confirm if I can install a ledger safely above the band joist, spans will be roughly 16.5-17' with overhang. And also if there is a way I can use the ledger angle I have now and then scissor or lift up somehow from those rafters with a riser to pitch the roof up. It's mainly about the security of things with my family under it etc. It would be close to a mono truss but without the cost of it.


Yes you can and you can also remove a slot of sheeting in that area and drop in a piece of 2x10 down the bottom plate and 2x4 block across the top of that and attach the 2x4 to the studs replace the sheeting..
You have a double or triple stud on each side of each window and you might need a lag bolt every 32 inches between the windows.
Easier yet would be to use truss jacks with a flat bottom and the would sit in a hanger nailed to the rim. no ledger required.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

So I had thought about a truss of some kind but they seem to be quite expensive and delivery time is weeks. I think I could make them but my big fear is in the installation. I'm seeing how I could use a joist hanger for the bottom (flat) side, but what about the top part and deck edge beam part? 

I imagine lay on top the beam and use a simpson hurricane tie along with blocking between the trusses? But taller side on house in lost haha. Thanks!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Any roof building we ever did was trusses or off a plan that some one else designed.

Trusses are engineered and the joining plates they use don't look like much but they are like a 100 nails pushed from both sides. I have seen 2 x 10 shorts butt joined like that and used as joists so not much chance of matching that strength.
If you google truss designs you will se a few different designs and they use different designs for snow loads and wind loads so designing your own might be guess work.

People that build their own use plywood scabs over the joints..

Your question about the top is a good one as that is a mistake in the picture I posted.
Some times the top cord is made an inch and a half short so it buts into a 2x4 nailed to the wall. Or you put blocks between them nailed to the wall and nail the truss to that and that provides a nailler for the top of the sheeting.
I would not be afraid of building trusses for a small roof like a shed or something but yours is pretty big and understanding the load is more than I can help with..

I would say order the trusses 2 ft on center with 2 gables lowered for 2 ft look outs.
It would be worth the wait. You get the height you need and with angle bracing inside and the sheeting you won't need knee braces on the posts.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Ok thank you! I guess I will need to just spend the money unfortunately as want to finish it right. It will initially be open truss from below I guess as I had wanted to have a more elevated roof underside as in the attached photos. Not real sure I can accomplish that given my pitch problem. I guess with the truss is will still have open 2 feet between truss but just not the same look when flat underside hah


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Hmm those look like timber framing. We might pictures you could copy.

Have a look at this guys lean to. He as hung the rafters off the ledger which must be just screwed to studs.
https://offthebeatenpath.wordpress.com/category/photo/


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Put some metal on the roof and be done with it.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Hmm those look like timber framing. We might pictures you could copy.
> 
> Have a look at this guys lean to. He as hung the rafters off the ledger which must be just screwed to studs.
> https://offthebeatenpath.wordpress.com/category/photo/


What about either of these two plans attached. Bottom being fabbed myself from 2x10, top being an ordered truss $$$$.

Thanks for all the help, so great to see the support!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> What about either of these two plans attached. Bottom being fabbed myself from 2x10, top being an ordered truss $$$$.
> 
> Thanks for all the help, so great to see the support!


Are you after strength from the lower ledger or are you after the vaulted look.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Are you after strength from the lower ledger or are you after the vaulted look.


thank you yet again!

I am after both really. I want to make sure its secure and being 36' wide, the best spot is that band joist. But I need a higher position for the top angle for pitch. id also like to avoid the flat truss above my head if possible, so much more money and doesn't look as good as more open rafter design. Plus I had no plan to do a soffit or anything yet. Ultimately safety is first, money second, with looks close in third


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Ok. Doesn't matter 5 or 50 ft wide pounds per rafter will be the same.:biggrin2:

A shed roof is half of a gable roof.

The ceiling joist is used too tie the two outside walls together.
If you have a supported ridge board or ridge beam there is no push on the outside wall.

So you fear is that my idea of going against the stud under the window level is that that will be an unsupported ridge board.
The fear would be that it could slide down the house and push the beam out.

Suggestion. Put the ledger against the rim as you would like.
Put another ledger up high like I am saying.
Put 2x4s 16" O C on the flat between the 2. Now any downward pressure on the ridge board will be supported by the rim joist.
The lower ledger and 2x4s would then be covered with reclaimed siding.:vs_cool:


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

that sounds good, I think that is kind of what I was going for in my second drawing on last attachment, but sounds like I don't need to do the angle bracing and instead just 90 down to the lower ledger. 

How would I cover it with the old siding? got me a bit on that one? 

your rock by the way, so nice to see help so quickly with this!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

So you will take off siding from where you are to the windows and install 2 ledgers One 6" below windows and one on the rim. And 2x4s on flat between those two 16" O C 
Cover the lower ledger and all those 2x4s with siding.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Oh! So when flat I should still be able to cover the 2x4 and ledger with the hardie siding with no issues? Bulging etc...


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> Oh! So when flat I should still be able to cover the 2x4 and ledger with the hardie siding with no issues? Bulging etc...


Harder is no longer installed on a flat surface.They add strapping behind for air flow.
Google Rainscreening .siding.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Earlier you mentioned Ice Shield That is to help deal with heat from an outside wall. So unless you plan on heating that beam ????


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

ohhh, so my whole house side is flat mounted, so I would need to trim some other way, maybe cedar wrap or something on the ledgers.. id have to uncover the whole house and my only experience with siding is what you see there haha.

the ice shield I mentioned is a membrane for under the shingles due to low pitch instead of the tar paper. https://gcpat.com/en/solutions/products/grace-ice-water-shield-roofing-underlayment/grace-ice-water-shield


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> ohhh, so my whole house side is flat mounted, so I would need to trim some other way, maybe cedar wrap or something on the ledgers.. id have to uncover the whole house and my only experience with siding is what you see there haha.
> 
> the ice shield I mentioned is a membrane for under the shingles due to low pitch instead of the tar paper. https://gcpat.com/en/solutions/products/grace-ice-water-shield-roofing-underlayment/grace-ice-water-shield


Let's talk pitch. distance from house to outside of post?
Top of rim joist to the bottom of the windows?

No I don't think you want to re and re all your siding.:vs_cool:


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

So kind of tricky question. 

To the beam it's 16'.

Once I mount the 2x12 ledger from the top of that to the bottom of window will be roughly 30". I attached photos with 2x8 temp there. When I measure inside bedroom from my carpet to window sill it's 32", so I'll need to lower the 2x12 right over the siding to just cover the non painted area and keep me fully in the band joist, giving me roughly 30". Not nearly enough. But I think anything better then where I started pitch wise.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> So kind of tricky question.
> 
> To the beam it's 16'.
> 
> Once I mount the 2x12 ledger from the top of that to the bottom of window will be roughly 30". I attached photos with 2x8 temp there. When I measure inside bedroom from my carpet to window sill it's 32", so I'll need to lower the 2x12 right over the siding to just cover the non painted area and keep me fully in the band joist, giving me roughly 30". Not nearly enough. But I think anything better then where I started pitch wise.


we haven't started to cheat yet:vs_OMG:
Top of finished deck to the top of the ledger after you correct it?


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

120" with the correction from deck to top of ledger


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I hope that is the lower ledger..
so on the out side posts we need the height of the rafter and the beam and still not be to low for the view.
view 80" ??
beam 9.5" ??
rafter 7.5" ?? after birds mouth cut.
........=97"

wall 120 + 32 = 152
flashing 152-8 =144

rise 144-97 = 47???
47 / 16 = aprox 3/12 pitch.

With some cheating there is more there.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Wow you nails it. 6x10 beam but scan shrink to 6x8, 2x10 rafters. 

Deck to top of uncut rafter would be 97" with the 6x10 roughly. That's with raising the beam 5" from where it is now for more view.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> Wow you nails it. 6x10 beam but scan shrink to 6x8, 2x10 rafters.
> 
> Deck to top of uncut rafter would be 97" with the 6x10 roughly. That's with raising the beam 5" from where it is now for more view.


BTW the guy at the lumber yard DON"T know


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That last picture see how they made the tail into 2x4.
The plumb cut at the outside of the wall is called the heel cut.

If you make the heel cut 0 and come across with the level line for the beam and then a plumb cut down you have gained another 4 or 5 inches.

Get to about 4" from the window will still work.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Wow that's pretty tricky! Little bit scared its above my pay grade tho! So Like half of it is on the ledger and the rest pops up right?

Is this really crappy drawing kind of what your were thinking with the 2 ledgers?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rarteam said:


> Wow that's pretty tricky! Little bit scared its above my pay grade tho! So Like half of it is on the ledger and the rest pops up right?
> 
> Is this really crappy drawing kind of what your were thinking with the 2 ledgers?


Yes that is what I was thinking. if you are bolting the ledgers on remember to counter sink the bolts so the siding will go over them.


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## rarteam (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm thinking the ledgers etc are going to remain exposed. I don't know how I'd get siding over them since the siding is so tight and flat on wall already. 

I could always strip all the siding from where I am at up, cut the plywood covering of and box things in or something but I think too advanced for me this round. I'm still pretty green !


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