# Cigarette smoke coming in from outside through HVAC return?



## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

Makes sense.

If your outdoor air intake is near their smoking spot it will certainly suck it in, or at least enough that'll you'll smell it.

You may look to see if there are any exhaust vents from their house in close proximity to your air intake. There should be at least 10' of difference between the exhaust and intake.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

The exhaust vents are all on the rooftops (I am in a townhouse style condo). Their HVAC unit is directly next to mine, however.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

Check for air leaks at the units, if they smoke inside then smoke is traveling through their unit. If there are air leaks in the duct connections then it could be migrating over to yours.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Where do I check for leaks?


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## cascadehvac (Apr 27, 2011)

the only way i see 4 u to b getting any odor from outside is if you have a system that brings in air from outside. some systems have a "fresh air intake" connected to your return air plenum. there would b a 6" or 8" pipe running from your furnace to the outside. they r normally controlled by a timer. if u have 1 turn it off and you shouold no longer bring in outside air. if u don't have 1 then u have a different problem.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

This isn't my unit, but here are what they look like. My unit and my neighbor's unit both look like the one on the left. However, I don't think they smoke inside their house. I know my neighbor on the other side does smoke inside, but his unit is more than 10 feet from mine.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

put some towels tightly on the bottom of your door. I have lived in lots of apartments and most of these bldgs have a negative pressure coming into your unit and bring in odors and smoke. if it stops then you know you have a draft entering your unit.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

There is somewhat of a draft - my front door does need replacing. I can see how that would draw in the smoke odors, but it doesn't explain why it's pouring out of my vents?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Don't know. Hard to see your setup from here and my crystal ball went AWOL.:laughing:


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## JJboy (Oct 12, 2010)

What about starting to smoke. You will stop to see your neighbor :thumbup::whistling2::thumbsup::laughing:


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Cook with LOTS of Curry. I always hated the hallway being full of the neighbors concoctions.:yes:


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Here are a couple of older photos I happen to have on hand (prior to painting that ugly trim). I can take some more when I get home. The HVAC unit is inside a closet to the left of the door, where you see that small vent.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Hahahaha! I hate the smell of curry, and I'll never start smoking. But I'm sure they hate me just as much because my dogs can be LOUD barkers.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Actually I have started to like curry and spicier different foods ever since my sister married into an East Indian family. They eat their samosas like us Ukrainians eat perogies. Big on garlic us Slavs are.:yes:
There may be a fresh air intake into your furnace return duct but usually the smoke concentration gets diluted enough to not be a problem unless they stand within a foot of it. More of a problem in Commercial bldgs and hospitals where large groups of smokers stand in front of the air intake outside. Get a Bionaire or Oreck air purifier/ionizer if you cannot solve the problem.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Smoke smell is shooting out of my vents from somewhere... I'm not sure where else it could be coming from. Ugh, I'll never understand why people smoke anymore! I've got air purifiers running, but apparently that just makes the problem worse when dealing with smoke. What I need to do is determine the source, and then eliminate it. >.<

I *love* Indian food - just not curry itself.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

is the furnace/air handler in the closet ducted to that small vent in the picture:important...is the ceiling in the furnace closet solid or open in anyway.basically is the closet the return to the furnace with the door closed and does that door have louvers on it for the return air from your living space.question:huh: do you smell any cooking going on from the other tennents into yours?


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Yes, that small vent is ducted to the return in the closet. The ceiling in the closet is closed, it looks just like the ceiling in the rest of the house. The return is located inside the closet (that's where the filter is changed, etc). The door just closes to keep it hidden. I've never smelled any cooking from my neighbors. 

I did some research on some really good filters, and I've decided upon this one. I hope it makes a big difference. Once I have that problem narrowed down and fixed, I can scrub my condo top to bottom. Have I mentioned that I hate cigarettes? >.<


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I would NOT use that filter. It is highly restrictive to airflow and the lack of airflow may freeze the AC coil and shut down your unit. Those filters require an extra powerful furnace fan, usually a variable speed ECM type and larger ductwork.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Of course it is! Grrrr! :wallbash:

Any suggestions for a filter that will filter out the smoke smell?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

the mystery here is how is outside cig smell coming into your apartment when the unit isn't ducted for outside air into the return in that closet...:huh:


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

It *is* ducted for that. It sucks in outside air and that air is vented through my system. That's how the smoke is coming in.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

What about this one? I want to get something that will filter out smoke, but not freeze my coils... http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

still too tight/restrictive. there is NO air filter like those that will take out smoke. that is "creative advertising". An electronic air cleaner will but it is no different than the electrostatic room air purifiers. an eac has ionizing wires in it the same as those room jobs. they attach to the return duct. flip side is they give off an ozone smell (like smog or fresh rain smell) which a small per cent of people can smell and don't like. they also sound like a bug zapper. we use eacs in bars and bingo halls etc. there is no other method that I know of.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Surely a new and better filter will at least improve things, yes? I'm a bad girl and haven't changed my filter in forever. Out of sight, out of mind. X_X


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

OHHHHHHHHHHHH  that needs to be capped off so you get the true space return and nothing outside.how do you cool or heat the space $$$ bringing that in.is it accessable within that closet connecting to the return duct?when any supply fan runs it pulls the air from the least resistanced place........your outside stoop area.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Open the closet door and take some pics of your furnace/air handler and post the make and model #. MOST units do not take outside air as it is too cold or too hot or humid and take it from the house. a small fresh air pipe is sometimes installed but the majority of the air is returned from the house to be reheated or cooled. not sure why you are taking so much outside air or if it is even necessary.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Alright, ask and you shall receive.  I really appreciate the advice!

I am a DIY N00b, but if you ever need help with writing or reviewing contracts, I'm your girl. 

Outside unit









Outer vent going into closet:









Inside of that vent (EW DUSTY!):









Upper left corner of closet, just above unit:









Some kind of number that may or may not be relevant  :









Looks like Armstrong is the manufacturer...









Model number:









Serial number:


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

I posted pics above, and they are gone... did someone mod me? If so it would be nice to be told.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

are they the correct file size under 100 kb? put them on photobucket or imageshack and put the links here is another method. still need the model and serial #.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Strange - went to edit again, and there they were.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

try 640 X 460 on the pix thru PBucket...i want to see the outside air duct connecting to the return in the closet and the outside end of the fresh air duct grill...any damper in the room for the incoming freash air:huh: before the end of the day that sucker is going to get disconnected and cover the opening on the rturn duct for a true 100% return....:thumbsup:


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Outside

Wall of closet with vent

View of unit from closet door

A sticker with some sort of instructions 

View of ceiling inside the closet

Very dusty closet-side of vent (there is one of these on both side walls of closet)

Efficiency Rating

Manufacturer: Armstrong

Type

Model Number

Serial Number

That's all she wrote... for now... heading to Ikea  I can take more photos later if needed. You guys rock.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

is there a ducted going to the bottom of that unit were you change the filter..those vents cut in the sheet rock tell me the closet is the return so lets here were that filter is in the unit on the bottom panel or slides into a duct


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Yes, that is the return. I'm not sure I understand the rest of what you said


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## jerryk1234 (Jul 15, 2011)

yuri said:


> Actually I have started to like curry and spicier different foods ever since my sister married into an East Indian family. They eat their samosas like us Ukrainians eat perogies. Big on garlic us Slavs are.:yes:


*** Indeed. My (Russian) wife makes a cold beet/garlic salad that is absolutely mouth-watering. You bite it, it bites you back!

- JerryK


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

My Mothers cousin (Slovak from the former Czechoslovakia) has his standard get up and go breakfast. Cup of black coffee, slice of toast with a clove of garlic sliced into the butter and a cigarette. Probably unfiltered when he is back "home". Oy.:icon_rolleyes:


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Sublimesub said:


> Yes, that is the return. I'm not sure I understand the rest of what you said


I have seen LOTS of those units in condos where I am. The fresh air pipe you have to outdoors is an add on and not necessary for it to work properly or safely. You may want to plug it somehow. Flip side to that is if your dogs or cat gives off any smells the lack of fresh air may be noticeable. Pros and Cons to everything.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

:no: fire dept.might not appreciare fresh air being supplied into a smoke/fire situation per condo wonder if she has a fire door which your not suppose to open during a fire someplace else...bet it the (air handlers) not tied into the smoke alarms to shut down....on smoke trip..i say block it totally off her cooling bill will show the difference and the heat with the winters up there


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I still want to see a closeup pic of the supposed "fresh air vent" from the outside and exactly where it attaches to the return duct. You CANNOT alter ANYTHING on the outdoor grill of that unit. The 3" looking pipe behind the grill is to exhaust the furnace and DO NOT block it.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

I only say there is a "fresh air vent" because when I called the condo association to ask if the venting systems were all separate they said yes, and when I asked how smoke was getting into my unit, they said the only way was for the unit to be sucking air in from outside. I'm not sure what part to take the photo of.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

?:huh: when the unit is running do you hear air returning thru those grillas on each side of the brown doors...and if you crack them open do you feel air sucking in past you...where is the filter on the unit inthe unit.....i think she is drawing in smoke smell thru the :thumbsup: flue for the heating side if that unit is looking for air those returns look to small....next smoke out tell them to smoke in theusual place open up the doors to the unit 100% just even fan don't need cooling running FAN/ON stat...see if you smell the smoke..can you take a pix of the unit with the panels off...the unit top Burner Section and bottom Fan Section..need to know where the filter mounts ..that closet might be the entire return


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

The closet is the entire return, I replaced the filter today. The front panel comes off, and I put the new filter on, it hooks right in front of the inside grill (which I also cleaned by gently vacuuming), and then the panel goes back on.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I think Biggles and I are getting close to the solution. Those units slide into a metal sleeve in the wall cavity of your building. That sleeve is supposed to be well sealed to the wall of the building with duct mastic sealer or silicone. Your unit is 18 yrs old (made in 1993) and probably the seal is broken. If you do not have enough return grill space in the wall the fan is looking /starving for air and sucking outside air and smoke past the wall sleeve into your return air of the HVAC unit and into your condo. I don't believe you even have a fresh air pipe. The condo board said all your units are seperate and they are with no interconnecting ductwork to other condos or the common hallway if you have one.

You need to get it resealed outside and possibly inside with whatever method they originally used. Silicone won't stick to mastic and vice versa.


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

LOL What does that mean I should do? Sorry, I'm such a n00b, I have no idea what any of that means. -.-


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

the furnace does pull air in from any place around that that penetration on the outside wall the closet has to be the total return with those sheet rock mounted grills.SUB you need to run the supply fan only to see if you get the smell first with the brown doors closed as usual the again next smoke out with them open


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Well, perhaps the smoke smell is coming from the neighbor's apartment instead? 

Do you mean the folding closet door?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Sublimesub said:


> LOL What does that mean I should do? Sorry, I'm such a n00b, I have no idea what any of that means. -.-


I cannot explain it any clearer but if you know a handyperson who can do some carpentry or call a HVAC tech and have them read my post it should be fairly straightforward.

Good Luck:yes:


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

There is information stuck to the unit with the company that installed it's info. I'll call them. If I understand correctly (I'm really trying!) it sounds like a seal is broken, and to fix my problem, it just needs to be sealed with silicone? Either way, thank you VERY much, and I'm soooo looking forward to getting this fixed!


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## Sublimesub (Dec 4, 2009)

Oh. I totally missed this part of your post, at the bottom: "You need to get it resealed outside and possibly inside with whatever method they originally used. Silicone won't stick to mastic and vice versa."

Got it! Thanks again


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

yes the folding doors if you leave them open with just the fan on and the smoking going on that might limit the air being drawn into the closet from the outside thru the leaks on that outter wall the condenser grills go thru..good luck


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