# Kitchen layout ideas



## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

I'd like to see if my kitchen layout can be improved in order to get:

1) A good spot for a larger fridge. Our current one is 30" wide as opposed to today's standard of 36". A fridge in that spot also makes the mudroom entrance tight.
2) add a small island, maybe 4'x3'?

I'm thinking of taking down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room. Not sure what to do with the mud room. Any ideas welcome!


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

are you redoing the kitchen cabinets?


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

Yup, complete remodel, probably down to studs. New cabinets, appliances, plumbing, electrical, floor, etc.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

I would recommend going to a local lumber yard with a kitchen designer. they will take measurements of your kitchen, show you the various lines of cabinetry they carry and features of each and prepare 3d models for free ...... part of their sales pitch

you could recess the refrig in the wall between the dining room and kitchen (12"), just extend that small area next to the built in china cabinet. install a small counter that would be flush with the front of the refrig. 

I like to keep the refrig near the entrance to the kitchen so you don't run the risk on moving a pan of hot grease from the stove and have small ones running into the kitchen to grab a juice box and hitting the pan.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

I would try to leave the mudroom as an air lock to keep the cold winter winds from blowing straight into the kitchen.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I second the advice to use a kitchen design place. Most will work up a rough sketch at no cost as part of their sales pitch.

Which is your daily entrance door? What're your most common uses and paths? As in, which rooms see what kinds of travel?

Is there any desire to change the mudroom entrance? What's purpose of the 7'8"x10' room? What's the door at the top side of the dining room?


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

Great idea, I'll check out a kitchen design spot, looking forward to seeing what they come up with. 

The front door, below the vestibule in the pic is the door used 90% of the time. The exit door off the mudroom is used mainly for taking out the trash. Currently, we enter the kitchen using both entrances (from dining and foyer) equally.

Yes, I have a desire to change the mudroom entrance as I need to turn sideways to get into it. The folding door robs ~4" on one side, and the fridge sticking out robs another ~5" from the other. The floorplan make it looks like the fridge is flush with the wall, but it isn't.

The 7'8"x10' room is an office, and the door at the top of the dining room goes to a sunroom.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

What's the outside mudroom porch? Any chance of moving that door? As in, toward the office or in through were the sink and window are currently. Then lose the mudroom entirely and extend the kitchen into the old mudroom space. 

Or what about making it a straight-shot from the center hall out to the mudroom room? That would free up the corner it's door takes in the kitchen. The question would be whether or not that wall has anything in it (ducts, plumbing, wiring), or carries loads that would affect it's framing. Those factors can be dealt with, but at an increase in cost and complexity. The same thing could be said for the wall between the kitchen and the dining room.

It's worth thinking outside the box on this. If only to confirm what would truly be an excessive amount of effort/cost to work around. 

As it stands you have an pretty poorly sized 'work triangle'. It's a schlep from the fridge to the stove and the sink. It's better to have a tighter working path between those to minimize how much the cook might have to cross paths with anyone else in the space. But it helps to make sure whatever else others might need are at an accessible corner. As in, keep the fridge near the most open side of the travel path, so others don't have to cut in-between the cook to get to it.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you looked into distributed refrigeration at all? It is dropping in price and I think has even made it down to the level of perhaps special order from places like Sears.

Refrigerators date back to the designs for turn of the century ice boxes where one block of ice cooled everything. But when you think about it, doesn't it make more sense to put things like veges and meat in refrigerator drawers by the sink? And have a dedicated beverage frig just for soda, wine, beer or whatever elsewhere in the room and more accessible to the kids and so forth. As it is know, whenever someone reaches for a soda, the giant door swings open and 900,000cf of cool air blasts into the room and has to be cooled back down again.

And when you think about it, frigs are pretty big and ugly things even if in designer brushed metal or whatever the current trend. By incorporating smaller and distributed frig and freezer units you gain space that could be used for cabinets. I talked some clients into the approach and they really like it. Granted, you do gain extra sets of systems to maintain but still. Gone is the giant elephant in the room.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

To your question. The old approach to kitchen design was to orient the stovetop/oven, sink and frig in as close to a maneuverable triangle as one could get a way with.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Do you know what style cabs you want?
Do you know what type counter tops you
want? 
What kind of appliances do you want?

I have a galley kitchen, and moved my fridge
down to the end. I previously had a GE proline,
as it was the shallow in depth and narrow in width.

What a piece of junk it was. Last summer I 
got a kenmore French door fridge and it's wonderful. 
It's the only fridge I could find that was not as deep
as all the other fridges.

We also took out the two by fours in back of the fridge,
and framed it out (like you would frame out a window) and the fridge fits
inside the frame ...thus, after we put compressed 
fiberglass in the frame we picked up about 3".

The reason I mentioned this, as I have some thoughts
for a design for you, which includes taking out your
2 x 4's in back of the fridge.


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

wkearney99 said:


> What's the outside mudroom porch? Any chance of moving that door? As in, toward the office or in through were the sink and window are currently. Then lose the mudroom entirely and extend the kitchen into the old mudroom space.
> 
> Or what about making it a straight-shot from the center hall out to the mudroom room? That would free up the corner it's door takes in the kitchen. The question would be whether or not that wall has anything in it (ducts, plumbing, wiring), or carries loads that would affect it's framing. Those factors can be dealt with, but at an increase in cost and complexity. The same thing could be said for the wall between the kitchen and the dining room.
> 
> ...


Yes, outside the mudroom there's a porch with a set of stairs that goes down to the ground level where I keep trash cans. I think there's no chance of moving that exterior door. It's a brick exterior house, and I've been told it's pretty much impossible to match new brick to old brick on a house.

I like the idea of straight shot from center hall to mudroom! Making a wall out of where the sliding door is now would let me add more useful cabinets/countertop space in the new corner, and allow me to put a fridge basically in front of where the folding door is now.

Agreed on thinking outside the box, and that the current work triangle is large. I have a lot of freedom to design something that minimizes path crossing and functions well.


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

sdsester said:


> Have you looked into distributed refrigeration at all? It is dropping in price and I think has even made it down to the level of perhaps special order from places like Sears.
> 
> Refrigerators date back to the designs for turn of the century ice boxes where one block of ice cooled everything. But when you think about it, doesn't it make more sense to put things like veges and meat in refrigerator drawers by the sink? And have a dedicated beverage frig just for soda, wine, beer or whatever elsewhere in the room and more accessible to the kids and so forth. As it is know, whenever someone reaches for a soda, the giant door swings open and 900,000cf of cool air blasts into the room and has to be cooled back down again.
> ...


Had no idea these existed, interesting!


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Do you know what style cabs you want?
> Do you know what type counter tops you
> want?
> What kind of appliances do you want?
> ...


Still brainstorming on overall look. My wife and I agree on granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances. I'm leaning towards white cabinets, my wife thinks a darker wood would match the house better. I'd like to nail down the layout first, style later.

Removing the 2x4's, resulting in a thinner exterior wall? I don't think I want to do that. If anything, I'll be taking advantage of this opportunity to make sure the walls have good insulation. MA winters can be pretty cold.


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

Saw a pic that inspired me. How about moving the range/stove into the corner to the left of the sink, and then moving the fridge to where the stove is now? Much better working triangle with that, no?

Still create wall where folding door entrance to mudroom is, remove wall of mudroom to create straight shot from foyer to mudroom exit.

Pic shows corner range just to get an idea.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

yes, thinner outside wall, that's why we used compressed
fiberglass that has a high R rating.
The fridge is built in, one side is against the wall,
the other side a counter, built in fridges are
warm in the back because of the motor
running. 

This is something to consider
when choosing a fridge -- make sure the shelves on the door
are removable...the right side of our fridge opens up on
a wall ( the wall with our kitchen door) In order to
take out the right veggie bin and also the cold cut keeper,
I have to take out two door shelves.

White is nice and currently in fashion. If all your furniture
is dark, darker cabs would be nice as well.

We did our first Reno in 1985 with white cabs. It was lovely,
but I soon began to obsess that the white kitchen didn't
blend well with our traditional dark furniture in the
rest of the house, so in 2005
we did another new kitchen in QS white oak, stained a medium
dark color. 
Having said that, our daughter has all cherry furniture, and did a
white kitchen with soap stone counters and it looks beautiful. 

The only reason I suggested the two by four removal is because
I don't like friges sticking out far past the counters.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Holy cow, that was going to be my suggestion, a corner stove.

I would take out the mud room walls, a put a single glass French
door opening on to the china cabinet wall. 

That's a great flow, sink 
and fridge on the same side with lots of counter in between. 
I like the shaker style cabs too, that's what we have, it's timeless.
Is that the style your wife likes?


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Rekonn said:


> I'd like to see if my kitchen layout can be improved


Waste of time. Your wife will have the final say anyway.


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## MJ Force (Jan 1, 2013)

My kitchen, I finished last fall, completely gutted, is similar size to yours. 9'8"x 14'. 



















I also buried the full size fridge 4" into the wall. Glass backsplash covers all kitchen wall surfaces. 36" Induction stove top. Notice the pot filler. Love it.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Corner ranges and sinks are horrible. The dead space left behind them is a waste, or ends up being a hassle to clean. That and you then lose the front-in access to the counter next to them. You'd only use a corner setup because the designer was incapable of coming up with a better plan. Really, they suck.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

How about taking out part of that wall between the kitchen and dining? Maybe a breakfast bar? If you still need 'some' privacy....you could use louver'd doors across the top of the bar.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Rekonn said:


> Yes, outside the mudroom there's a porch with a set of stairs that goes down to the ground level where I keep trash cans. I think there's no chance of moving that exterior door. It's a brick exterior house, and I've been told it's pretty much impossible to match new brick to old brick on a house.
> 
> I like the idea of straight shot from center hall to mudroom! Making a wall out of where the sliding door is now would let me add more useful cabinets/countertop space in the new corner, and allow me to put a fridge basically in front of where the folding door is now.
> 
> Agreed on thinking outside the box, and that the current work triangle is large. I have a lot of freedom to design something that minimizes path crossing and functions well.


Sliding door, where? Your drawing shows regular hinged ones. I'd take a french door setup any day over a slider. ESPECIALLY if it's off a kitchen between you and the barbeque grill. Nothing more of a hassle than sliding that damned door back/forth with an armload of grill stuff. The rental house were in has them in both of the back access doors and they're awful. And neither of them is space limited in a way that would even require them (there's plenty of in-swing space for a door).

It's the side of the house, not the front. No doubt brick or other exterior work can be done to avoid a glaring mismatch. Do not let THAT worry outweigh the benefits of having a better and more usable space inside. 

Besides, if you lost the existing door and put in a french door pair where the windows are you'd then have THOSE bricks on-hand to aid patching up the space that had the old door.

There's also the notion of opening up the space between the kitchen and dining room. Perhaps with a pass-through, a peninsula or an island. That's why I asked what the door is at the top of the drawing, into the dining room.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

MJForce, that's a gorgeous kitchen you have. :thumbsup:

reckon, the way they did that corner countertop range in your
inspiration pic is clever. They built a shelf along the backsplash;
both clever and unique. If you decide to go this route, a double
wall oven on the end where you currently have your stove is a great
spot for it.


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## Rekonn (May 10, 2013)

MJ Force said:


> My kitchen, I finished last fall, completely gutted, is similar size to yours. 9'8"x 14'.
> ...


Wow! :thumbup: Please say you live in MA and give me your contractor's number!


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## MJ Force (Jan 1, 2013)

Rekonn said:


> Wow! :thumbup: Please say you live in MA and give me your contractor's number!


Vancouver. And thanks. 
I really put an effort into the lighting. 5 lighting systems with two way dimmer controls where possible. Replaced all the old poly-b plumbing. Leveled the floors. I worked with the installer to get everything perfect. Quartz counter top and window sill. Cabinet colours are sand(light gray) Every appliance has water. Filters(3) are installed behind the fridge in a closet for easy access. 
The pictures don't do this kitchen any justice. Cabinets are Nickels Kitchens. Our kitchen is featured on Genesis Kitchen website who are the supplier and designers. There's also another kitchen I did featured on both websites but I can't find them. 






















Like I said; your kitchen is similar size and layout to ours. I hope this can give some inspiration and ideas.


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