# Kitchen drain pipe after P-trap goes UP??



## pcampbell (Feb 7, 2008)

It goes through the P-trap, then has a big upward angle, then straightens out. Even when it is straight, I just stuck a level on there, and it's on an upward incline. Is this acceptable? To me I would not think it is but I really do not know how this all works. Our kitchen drain is not draining and I am wondering if this has to do with it. It has been in place for a while and working OK but it seems very strange . My understanding was that water should naturally "fall" (1/4" per foot or something?) toward the end of the drain after the P trap. I don't know if this is part of our problem but I also do not know if it is helping or hurting.


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## MikeVila (Nov 2, 2008)

Sounds like you found the problem. Especially when you say a "big" upward angle. I believe it is 1/4" per foot also.


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## pcampbell (Feb 7, 2008)

IT goes through the P-trap, then it goes up more maybe another 4", then it goes straight, but the straight is not straight, it's up. That is a very slight angle, albeit up.

Thishas been working for, 6 months, and of course I never noticed it until it stopped draining. I do not think that this is the ENTIRE problem, since it was working previously. 

I guess what I am trying to figure out if this issue is just making it worse, or is it somehow the cause (i.e. if something has been building up for months because of this issue)...

I have been running a 1/4" 25' auger through, and it just does not seem to be doing much. I want to try a larger auger, and longer, before doing anything drastic... We may need to cut a hole in the back of our kitchen cabinet in order to fix this drain pipe????


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

a plumber most likely can explain this better but I don't believe it should be pitched up. before cutting into the wall, check to see if the pipe slipped. I don't know if its metal or plastic, but they loosen up and slip sometimes. Ideally it should come off the trap and the tail peice goes right into the wall. Could be because of crowded space they did it different. Someone before you might of added to the drain and made it a longer run to the trap.


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## JDC (Mar 11, 2008)

No, no, no, no! It DEFINITELY shouldnt be pitching upward. That's called backfall and that IS your problem. The drain should be pitched at 1/4" per foot to the stack or branch. In addition, you stated that after your trap the drain goes up 4"????? Who scabbed this nightmare together? Yeah it "worked" for 6 months, but it really WASNT working properly thus leading to your clog. The water wasnt draining, but was being pushed through the pipe due to head pressure from the sink. Anytime your sink wasnt running that water that is laden with grease, soap, food particles, etc etc etc was sitting there in the pipe...not draining. All that gunk and **** (those are technical plumbing terms:laughing starting clinging to the inside of the pipe walls and VOILA you have a clog. 

Yes, you need to get into the wall and fix this. Without seeing it and going only on how you've described things, I'd guess that you need to get to the stack, lower the tee then rerun the fixture arm over. After that's finished, find the person who created this monstrosity and tell him/her that he/she owes you a 12 pack of your favorite adult beverage.:whistling2:

Good luck


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

is this constructed out of PVC. And if so Did the trap slide down from the sink tail piece to give it this back pitch. I have seen this happen twice when These stainless steel dish washers came about. because of the hotter water temps created, thous bending the pipe. just a suggestion! BOB


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

I agree with Bob - you should first investigate if the piece from the sink to the P trap is too long or slipped, before having to go into the wall.

You said it was working for 6 months - did someone add a disposal or new sink ? A picture would help.


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## jadrma (Sep 28, 2008)

*sink drain alignment*

I discovered a similar problem. I noticed water leaking from my p-trap connection located between the sink drain and the beginning of the p-trap. This was odd since it was dripping long after the faucet was off. I looked and saw that the horizontal run from the p-trap to the wasteline was actually higher than the p-trap and waste line from the garbage disposal. This means there is standing water in all of those lines since the T into the main waste line is located about 2" below the sink drain and above the p-trap and all the various connections. I plan to cut back into the wall, cut through the main vertical drainpipe, add a T at a lower point, and cap off the old T. One of many DIY projects lying ahead.


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## pcampbell (Feb 7, 2008)

To answer the questions. It was working fine, and by that I mean draining perfectly normally, for 6 months before we re-did the kitchen (and installed the disposal) and then for another 6 months after. 

I honestly may have put too much crap down the disposal, and did not post-flush it with hot water long enough. Now We are composting 90% of our food so... that should help.

I think that it's possible the p-trap slipped down. The nut on the disposal side just slips on after all. I have to move it up, and see if I can't get it to be at least at a slight downward grade.

I did actually call the roto rooter man, and he said that the configuration was OK but not ideal. The price, FWIW, was $140.

He used his power auger well beyond 25' - and it seemed like once he got the crud into the large 3" or 4" main sewer line, all was well. 

Here is a picture - worth 1000 words. Let me know what you think... thanks for all the replies.


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## jadrma (Sep 28, 2008)

*Kitchen drain pipe goes up??*

You're right...the picture helps a lot. Logic would tell you that you have a problem. Based on the height of the wasteline going into the wall you will always have water standing in the system no lower than that level. IOW, the complete p-trap AND it's fittings as well as the bottom of the disposal will have standing water in it. As long as those fittings are totally leakproof "underwater" it's not going to cause leakage but it could contribute to clogging. It's similar to the problem I described a couple of posts earlier. The p-trap needs to be lower than the final run into the wasteline but that final run should be lower than the various fittings leading to the P-trap itself.


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## pcampbell (Feb 7, 2008)

It sounds like if I just didn't have a disposal I'd be fine and it would simplify things 

It's funny because my wife didn't want one, I just had to have it... doh!


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Someone really screwed that up, didn't they! The rough-in at the wall was brought out at the wrong height.


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

Pcamp, I really think that once one of the plumbers on here takes a look at the setup you have, he/she will be able to advise how to correct the problem. With space at a premium under the sink, not much room to work with.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

It looks as tho some one changed there mind on putting in a disposal after the plumbing was rouged.  :laughing::laughing: 
It looks like your going to be working on your stomach for awhile. Could you run the drain through the floor and pick up the waste line as it comes out the floor bay? in the basement then cap the old waste and cover the back of the cabinet with some birch ply. BOB


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

Unless the clog is in the short piece, then the source of the problem is the disposal. If your House is old the pipes are probably 1/2 clogged until it gets to the 4 inch pipe. ( I replaced one once and could not believe how restricted it was) Old houses and new disposals just don't mix. ( I'm not saying that the pipe shouldn't go down hill, but with a dishwasher I would think it would get flushed regularly.) 

You might be able to use the disposal I you have someone thoroughly snake the line to wherever it goes to 4 inch, or change the pipe if you have access.


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## Speedball (Nov 2, 2008)

Oh man, that upward angle does not look right....:no:


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## JDC (Mar 11, 2008)

Well GeeWhiz its just like I said....its a screwed up monstrosity. But then again, what the heck would I know? You've got one helluva case of backfall after the trap which is causing it to clog. It may have drained but as I stated previously it wasnt draining correctly. In fact, it wasnt actually draining at all. The water was being forced out by the head pressure (also stated previously). You'll ALWAYS have clogs there because it isnt plumbed correctly. Of course, you can take the RR "plumber's" <cough hack gag> advice and let it go since he said it was ok or you can actually fix it.


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## pmracing (Nov 9, 2008)

thekctermite said:


> Someone really screwed that up, didn't they! The rough-in at the wall was brought out at the wrong height.


But the height looks fine if there was no disposal, right?

Mikeee


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

pmracing said:


> But the height looks fine if there was no disposal, right?


Yup, but that is probably little consolation, because they probably want to keep the disposal. 

The solution is to cut into the wall and cut into the pipe a few inches lower. No other way around it. It would be an easy project, just gotta make a good-sized hole! The existing wye fitting would need to be cut out and that section of the vertical pipe would need to be replaced, as it is more than likely a vent above the trap arm.


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## jadrma (Sep 28, 2008)

*Kitchen drain pipe after P-trap goes up??*

No need to cut out the original elbow if you install a new one lower down. Just cap it off. The vertical portion needs to remain as a vent.


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