# Looking to buy new Drill



## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

Track said:


> I recently bought the Bosch GDR10.8-Li (if I'm getting that correct). It's the one with the 105n/m power.
> 
> And, well, I think it's time to replace my old 400w professional Bosch drill, with a newer one.
> 
> ...



Here are 2 links from Bosch for you to compare. 

*GSB 16 RE http://bit.ly/mPIZpB*

*GBH 2-26 DFR http://bit.ly/jVlNkO
*


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Tangelo said:


> Here are 2 links from Bosch for you to compare.
> 
> *GSB 16 RE http://bit.ly/mPIZpB*
> 
> ...


I'm afraid I don't really know enough to understand that comparison.


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

Track said:


> I'm afraid I don't really know enough to understand that comparison.


I'm sorry I thought you were looking for technical detail of each. If you looking for a good Hammer drill (a.k.a masonry drill) stick with any of the better known, like DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee, Porter-Cable. 

Hammer drills often have a selection switch which allows users to choose between rotary and rotary-plus-hammer modes. When used in rotary mode, a hammer drill can be used for all of the drilling and driving applications that an ordinary drill driver is used for. In rotary-plus-hammer mode, the drill is set to be used on masonry. So when set properly, a hammer drill can almost always bore the hole. If the project requires drilling in masonry, you're going to need the hammer function.

Hammer drills often operate at higher speeds (0 to 1100 or 0 to 3000 rpm) compared to ordinary 1/2-inch corded drills (0 to 850 rpm). The extra speed makes hammer drills more suitable for unconventional applications. 

I will also frequently reach for my hammer drill (in rotary-only mode) to use with larger hole saws. Compared to a cordless or even a compact corded drill, I find that a hammer drill's beefy size makes the tool steadier and easier to control, leading to cleaner holes.

I hope this helps.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Tangelo said:


> I'm sorry I thought you were looking for technical detail of each. If you looking for a good Hammer drill (a.k.a masonry drill) stick with any of the better known, like DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee, Porter-Cable.
> 
> Hammer drills often have a selection switch which allows users to choose between rotary and rotary-plus-hammer modes. When used in rotary mode, a hammer drill can be used for all of the drilling and driving applications that an ordinary drill driver is used for. In rotary-plus-hammer mode, the drill is set to be used on masonry. So when set properly, a hammer drill can almost always bore the hole. If the project requires drilling in masonry, you're going to need the hammer function.
> 
> ...


Oh thank you.

All I know, so far, is that a "hammer drill" is supposed to have an easy time making holes in concrete walls because it would "hammer", instead of drill.

I've searched for videos where I saw "hammer drills" in action, but that hammer motion was not perceivable.

So, my question is - does it exist on the GSB 16RE, or must I buy the more expensive GDR 2-26 DFR?

Lastly, I picked up the latter at Home Depot, and it's.. really heavy for me. I'm fairly strong, and I just don't know if I can lift that thing for several hours of work.

That's why the GSB 16RE seemed better. It is also smaller and half the price.
And if it can drill through my walls, which is all I really need it for, with the "hammer" action, then I can just go ahead and buy it.. unless you think there is a reason I shouldn't..


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

Track said:


> Oh thank you.
> 
> All I know, so far, is that a "hammer drill" is supposed to have an easy time making holes in concrete walls because it would "hammer", instead of drill.
> 
> ...



Yes, the GSB 16RE is a Hammer drill. The specs on the Bosch site indicate *Impact rate at no-load speed 48000 bpm, *the bpm (blows per minute) tell me that this drill is indeed a Hammer drill. 

You will not see the hammer function in action, but you will hear the "pinging" of the hammer making the continuous blows to the concrete, you can also feel it while holding the drill. 

If you have a Tool Rental at your Home Depot, have them demonstrate the rotary feature (regular drill) versus rotary-hammer, they have hammer drill to rent, so they can show you without having to rent it.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Tangelo said:


> Yes, the GSB 16RE is a Hammer drill. The specs on the Bosch site indicate *Impact rate at no-load speed 48000 bpm, *the bpm (blows per minute) tell me that this drill is indeed a Hammer drill.
> 
> You will not see the hammer function in action, but you will hear the "pinging" of the hammer making the continuous blows to the concrete, you can also feel it while holding the drill.
> 
> If you have a Tool Rental at your Home Depot, have them demonstrate the rotary feature (regular drill) versus rotary-hammer, they have hammer drill to rent, so they can show you without having to rent it.


And you're saying that this hammering function will be enough to "drill" through concrete walls?

What about the 2-26? Am I to understand that it has the hammer-only action that the GSB16 lacks? Isn't that useful for drilling through walls?


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

Track said:


> And you're saying that this hammering function will be enough to "drill" through concrete walls?
> 
> What about the 2-26? Am I to understand that it has the hammer-only action that the GSB16 lacks? Isn't that useful for drilling through walls?



The BOSCH GBH 2-26 DFR has a feature that you can keep the hammer function, but turn off the rotary portion, so your drill can now be used as a chisel. If this is something that might be of interest to you, then this is the one to get, it's also the reason this unit cost more. The GSB 16 RE does not have this "chisel feature", but both models have the hammer action. 


*BOSCH GBH 2-26 DFR*
- 3 function (Rotary/Rotary Hammer/Hammer)
- Powerful 800-watt motor and impact force 3 joules for fast drilling rate
- This Rotary Hammer is Superior drilling rate in the 2 kg hammer class 
- Exceptionally fast, tool-free changing between SDS-plus and quick-change chuck 
*- Rotation stop for chiseling *
- Ball grommet for preventing cable breaks 
- Bosch rotary hammer comes with Softgrip on main handle and auxiliary handle for a secure hold 
- Impact stop for drilling in wood and steel 
- This Hammer drill comes with Overload clutch 
- Rotatable brush plate (for equal power in forward and reverse operation)


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

Track said:


> And you're saying that this hammering function will be enough to "drill" through concrete walls?
> 
> What about the 2-26? Am I to understand that it has the hammer-only action that the GSB16 lacks? Isn't that useful for drilling through walls?



How thick are the walls that you are drilling into? Is this something that you will be doing often? If so, then I would go with the *BOSCH GBH 2-26 DFR *since it has more power.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Okay, I'm glad we've reached the two points I care most about.

They are:

1.) Power
2.) Hammer-only mode

I am wondering if either of those will help me in practically the only thing I need the drill for - drilling a few inches into concrete walls.

I had a contractor work in my house a year ago, and I know he used the hammer-only mode for drilling through the walls. He commented that it was the easiest way, and I don't want to be without that.

That said, I have almost no use for a chisel function.

In regards to power, I wonder just how big a difference 800w would be over 700w for, again, the task of drilling through concrete walls.


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

The "Hammer-only mode" is if you were going to chisel, the "Rotary Hammer mode" rotates the drill bit and provides the hammer effect. So what the contractor was using was the "Rotary Hammer mode", which is what ever hammer drill does. If you are going into the concrete a few inches, I wouldn't be concerned about the extra power.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Tangelo said:


> The "Hammer-only mode" is if you were going to chisel, the "Rotary Hammer mode" rotates the drill bit and provides the hammer effect. So what the contractor was using was the "Rotary Hammer mode", which is what ever hammer drill does. If you are going into the concrete a few inches, I wouldn't be concerned about the extra power.


Gosh, are you sure? I am almost 100% certain I saw the drill hammering but not spinning.


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## HD_Newf (Oct 8, 2010)

Hey Track, maybe I can help you with this.


You are comparing 2 different tools. 



The GSB16 RE is a fancy version of a standard drill. It has the typical chuck that accepts wood, metal, tile/glass and small concrete drill bits like almost any other drill. These bits all have smooth round shanks. You can also use it as a screwdriver, since the hex head driving bits will also fit in the chuck. The fancy parts include relatively high power and a “hammering” function. Think of the buzzing feel and sound of rubbing 2 serrated poker chips together. This is basically what the hammer function does. This drill always spins the chuck. You cannot turn the spin function off. Pull the trigger and the drill spins. Because of this you cannot use a chisel with this drill. There is a switch to turn the hammer function on or off.


The 800w GBH2-26 is an entirely different animal. It is a rotary hammer. Its purpose is to drill holes in concrete or break up concrete using a chisel. It has no other purpose. The chuck is made to use SDS concrete bits and chisels only. SDS bits have channels cut into the shank to better retain the bit when in use. These are NOT the same as the bits for the above hammer drill. It is called a rotary hammer because a reciprocating piston is used to create the hammering. You can use it either with or without it spinning, and with or without the hammer function. As rotary hammers go, this is a relatively small and inexpensive one.


Ok, now as for what tool you need, I think that the GSB16 is more likely to be useful to you. Unless you need to drill large holes, (>3/4”), or lots of holes, a hammer drill will work fine. Any drill bit must spin in order to work. Pounding a drill bit into concrete without spinning it is like using a very dull chisel. That’s just not going to work well. If you have lots of holes to drill, the rotary hammer will do it faster. The rotary hammer will also handle larger holes, up to a point. As I said, the GBH2-26 is small for a rotary hammer, and has a range of drill bits that fit it. Larger rotary hammers handle larger holes, but their special chucks, (spline, SDS-MAX, etc.), do not do small bits. These are very specialized tools.


I hope this helps,
HDNewf


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

HDNewf said:


> Hey Track, maybe I can help you with this.
> 
> 
> You are comparing 2 different tools.
> ...


Wow, that was extremely helpful.

Um.. so, I guess I feel disappointed in the GSB16RE because I thought it could take SDS bits.

But I'm certainly not going to be drilling holes larger than 3/4" in concrete (maybe in wood or drywall).. 

So, getting the GBH 2-26 DFR would be more of a luxury for me, as it would do the same task.. but faster.

Which means it comes down to (again), getting the GSB16RE or getting the GBH 2-26 DFR and being more "future-proof', considering that I will likely not buy another drill for 5 years.
Heck, the current one I have is a handy-down from my father who bought it in 1984. Bosch professional, still works like a charm.

Also, I already have the 105nm 'Impact' driver (if I haven't already mentioned), so I don't require anything to deal with screws. I'm very pleased with it.

Lastly, how would a cordless drill fare in my spot? I know there are professional 36v drills that are equivalent to the GBH 2-26 DFR in power but cost twice as much (mostly because of the batteries).. but is there nothing that is as powerful as the GSB16RE and cordless.. preferably with the SDS bit chuck, but not excluding without..

Thank again!


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## HD_Newf (Oct 8, 2010)

Well, I am not aware of any cordless rotary hammer.
Cordless 18 volt hammer drills are common, and work well as all-around units. 36 volt units are now rare, and I think they are being phased out by tool companies in general. Cordless tools are more convenient to use, but more hassle to keep charged. Since you are working inside your house, a corded tool makes more sense to me. There’s more energy available from a home AC outlet than any battery you want to lug around can match.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

HDNewf said:


> Well, I am not aware of any cordless rotary hammer.
> Cordless 18 volt hammer drills are common, and work well as all-around units. 36 volt units are now rare, and I think they are being phased out by tool companies in general. Cordless tools are more convenient to use, but more hassle to keep charged. Since you are working inside your house, a corded tool makes more sense to me. There’s more energy available from a home AC outlet than any battery you want to lug around can match.


Yes, but I constantly find myself needing an outlet where I don't have one, thus requiring an extension cable.. when all I really wanted was to drill a single hole.

If my 10.8v could drill into concrete, I'd be set.

And, can I ask you - is using SDS bits necessary for concrete.. or does it just make the work faster? I would like SDS, since it's the best and since "future-proof", but I'm not inpatient.


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## HD_Newf (Oct 8, 2010)

SDS bits are not necessary. You can use masonry bits that are designed for hammer drills. There are also masonry bits that are not able to withstand the hammering, so check the label on any bits you buy.

Regular drills can slowly make holes in concrete.
Hammer drills speed up the process somewhat. You can buy them corded or cordless.
Rotary hammers are by far the fastest way, but only come corded.

I hope this helps,
HomeDepotNewf


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

HDNewf said:


> SDS bits are not necessary. You can use masonry bits that are designed for hammer drills. There are also masonry bits that are not able to withstand the hammering, so check the label on any bits you buy.
> 
> Regular drills can slowly make holes in concrete.
> Hammer drills speed up the process somewhat. You can buy them corded or cordless.
> ...


Okay, so what do you think - should I spend ~100$ and get the GSB16RE, spend ~200$ and get the GBH 2-26 DFR or try to find a cordless that is as good as the GSB16RE?


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

what size holes are you trying to drill in concrete? If they are small, like 1/4" my guess is your problem is the bits and not the drill. I've drilled plenty of small holes with cheap drills and good bits. It's slow going, and you wear bits out fast, but depending on your usage it might still be more economical to keep the drill you have, even if it means only being able to use 1 bit per hole. The other thought is to simply borrow or rent a small sds hammer when you have multiple holes to drill. 

You mention sds is future-proof, but that's really only accurate if in the future you'll be drilling a lot of holes in concrete. Don't get me wrong, it's a great system, but may not make sense for the average homeowner.


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> what size holes are you trying to drill in concrete? If they are small, like 1/4" my guess is your problem is the bits and not the drill. I've drilled plenty of small holes with cheap drills and good bits. It's slow going, and you wear bits out fast, but depending on your usage it might still be more economical to keep the drill you have, even if it means only being able to use 1 bit per hole. The other thought is to simply borrow or rent a small sds hammer when you have multiple holes to drill.
> 
> You mention sds is future-proof, but that's really only accurate if in the future you'll be drilling a lot of holes in concrete. Don't get me wrong, it's a great system, but may not make sense for the average homeowner.


I didn't think about that one.

I bought a few multi-construction bits, after being told they'd be good for concrete.. but I never tested them on my current drill because I didn't have luck with any other bits. The drill itself claims it could drill through concrete.. maybe it really was just the bit.

When I say "future-proof", I mean that, as far as I know, the GBH 2-26 DFR.. could do practically any task that a drill can do. So, there is no chance that at some point I will encounter something that I'll have to buy a new drill for.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Track said:


> When I say "future-proof", I mean that, as far as I know, the GBH 2-26 DFR.. could do practically any task that a drill can do. So, there is no chance that at some point I will encounter something that I'll have to buy a new drill for.


I'm confused.... When you say it could do practically any task that a drill can do, do you mean drill small-med holes in concrete? Because that's all it can do, and all it was designed to do ( other than some light duty chiseling). You aren't going to be able to use it to drill into any other base material


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> I'm confused.... When you say it could do practically any task that a drill can do, do you mean drill small-med holes in concrete? Because that's all it can do, and all it was designed to do ( other than some light duty chiseling). You aren't going to be able to use it to drill into any other base material


But it can drill everything else besides large holes in concrete, right?

That's the only thing I won't do.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Track said:


> But it can drill *everything else* besides large holes in concrete, right?
> 
> That's the only thing I won't do.


You need to define "everything else". an SDS drill is simply a delivery system for SDS concrete bits, that's it. You could buy an adapter to use standard bits, which is fine for straight shank masonry bits, but the low rpms on this drill ( and others like it) make it ineffiecient on most other base materials


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> You need to define "everything else". an SDS drill is simply a delivery system for SDS concrete bits, that's it. You could buy an adapter to use standard bits, which is fine for straight shank masonry bits, but the low rpms on this drill ( and others like it) make it ineffiecient on most other base materials


So does that mean that the GSB16RE would actually be better at everything besides drilling into concrete?

And does that really matter, considering that concrete is the most difficult thing to drill into?


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Track said:


> So does that mean that the GSB16RE would actually be better at everything besides drilling into concrete?


YES. Not to mention that it's more compact, which will allow you to get into much tighter spaces vs the other one. 



Track said:


> And does that really matter, considering that concrete is the most difficult thing to drill into?


Not all concrete is the same. Some are very soft and are easily drilled, others like really old concrete with lots of aggregrate ( stone) in the mix are sometimes darn near impossible.

Unless you are regularly drilling holes in concrete or are a guy who just likes to own tools, I think I'd recommend holding off on the SDS and just trying better quality bits


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> YES. Not to mention that it's more compact, which will allow you to get into much tighter spaces vs the other one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it possible that my walls have some sort of metal in them? The reason I want the GBH is because there are certain places where my drill simply won't go through.

But wow, you're right. GBH - 900 RPMs; GSB - 3,000 RPMs(!)

Now, I want the GSB16RE in cordless form and I'm done!


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Track said:


> Is it possible that my walls have some sort of metal in them


If you are talking about concrete walls, you are probably hitting rebar. They do make rebar cutting bits for SDS, but usually only in the bigger diameters if i remember correctly. They are expensive, and you'll ruin them quickly if you forget to switch out of roto-hammer mode, or if you go through the rebar and start into the concrete


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> If you are talking about concrete walls, you are probably hitting rebar. They do make rebar cutting bits for SDS, but usually only in the bigger diameters if i remember correctly. They are expensive, and you'll ruin them quickly if you forget to switch out of roto-hammer mode, or if you go through the rebar and start into the concrete


But I'm not getting an SDS drill, because I need an all-around drill.

I also need something that drills small holes (up to 10mm).

So, if you can recommend a cordless version of the GSB16RE, that would be perfect.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

I would recommend this. http://www.tools-plus.com/makita-bhp452hw.html dorf dude...


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

shumakerscott said:


> I would recommend this. http://www.tools-plus.com/makita-bhp452hw.html dorf dude...


I've always liked Makita as well

if your budget allows step up to this one for the extra torque
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Track (Apr 9, 2011)

No, no. I'm dead-set on Bosch.


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