# oil pan will not drop down



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Hi people, again.

replacong some gaskets on my 88 sunbird, non turbo, and unscrewed ALL the 10mm bolts holding the oil pan up. It broke off the stuck/grungy gasket easy with a wood block, but wont drop down completely. What kind of mystery is this, people?

Ever had this happen to you? Why me............


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Oh, its not caught up on the flywheel either. totally freed up!


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Hanging up on a baffle hooking onto the oil pick up tube.


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## D-rock (May 23, 2011)

I agree, stuck on the oil pick up


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

my Silverado hangs it on gear shifter bracket. bracket is impossible to undo, without removing trnsmission, so folks basically figured to bend it away with channel locks. 
my Silverado(you can tell, how much of a b----h job was it) also hangs it on 2 solenoids in the rear section. oil pan needs to be zig-zagged off all this.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Thnaks, members! So, oil pick up tube?? Hmmmmm, Its not too hard to remove that- I could try it. other than that, I am out of options. Will try that later when back from work!!!


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## D-rock (May 23, 2011)

noquacks said:


> Thnaks, members! So, oil pick up tube?? Hmmmmm, Its not too hard to remove that- I could try it. other than that, I am out of options. Will try that later when back from work!!!



I was referring to the oil pick up built inside the pan, under the engine block, you can not remove this without the oil pan removed. This is was goes to the lowest point of the pan and sucks up engine oil to be pressurized and sent through the engine.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

You're going to have to jack up the motor more until you can turn the pan one way or the other to clear the pump.
You might consult a Chiltons manual.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

D-rock said:


> I was referring to the oil pick up built inside the pan, under the engine block, you can not remove this without the oil pan removed. This is was goes to the lowest point of the pan and sucks up engine oil to be pressurized and sent through the engine.


Ohhhhh, I get it now. Thanks! Geez, thats so wierd for GM to do that.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

titanoman said:


> You're going to have to jack up the motor more until you can turn the pan one way or the other to clear the pump.
> You might consult a Chiltons manual.


\OK, its a plan. But, actuall, I thing I have to wrestle the 2 rusted bolts offff the exhaust manifold, as thats the limiting factor ultimately. I do have a Haynes. But they make no mention of this problem. Oh well. Ive seen this before in them manuals- you have to enginer stuff on your own, with the help of the members here, of course.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

noquacks said:


> Ohhhhh, I get it now. Thanks! Geez, thats so wierd for GM to do that.


All GM's are like that. That's how I knew.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

noquacks said:


> Ohhhhh, I get it now. Thanks! Geez, *thats so wierd for GM to do that.*


Oh don't kid yourself. That is by NO MEANS the weirdest - or dumbest - thing GM ever did!


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Post all your vehicle details and I will look it up on my local library's free online autodata service. 
The library told me that subscribing to this service was cheaper than keeping the auto books on the shelves. Your library may offer the same service. 
There's even some data on my 2004 Subaru which I couldn't find with Haynes/Chilton yet.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Yoyizit said:


> Post all your vehicle details and I will look it up on my local library's free online autodata service.
> The library told me that subscribing to this service was cheaper than keeping the auto books on the shelves. Your library may offer the same service.
> There's even some data on my 2004 Subaru which I couldn't find with Haynes/Chilton yet.


Geez, Yoy, tyhats a great , polite offer! OK, so its a 87 pontiac sunbird, GT NON turbo. 2.0L, removal of oil pan. Now, update:

Sorry guys, but I had to leave town for 10 days, and I just got back, catching up- whew.

Now, I dont know how one can jack up this engine a bit if typically, you jack up the engine with a wood pine board under the oil pan. So, how is one to do this if the pan is already loose/detached'/ dropped a bit and obviously you cant push up engine like that!

BUT, guys, the pan is NOT hung up on any lower car part! Not even dropped down low enough to touch the exhaust pipe, so even if the engine could be raaised, how would this even help? What am I missing here, people? I am stuck in the water ! People, heeeeeeeeelp!


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Im gonna yank harder.........


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

For some reason there were two listings using your specs and both looked the same so I picked the first one.

1.	Disconnect the negative battery cable.
2.	Drain the crankcase. Raise and support the front of the vehicle.
3.	On 1982–86 models, remove the air conditioning brace at the starter and air conditioning bracket.
4.	Unfasten the exhaust shield and disconnect the exhaust pipe at the manifold.
5.	Remove the starter motor and position it out of the way.
6.	Remove the flywheel cover.
7.	On 1982–90 models, remove the 4 right support bolts. Lower the support slightly to gain clearance for oil pan removal.
8.	On cars equipped with automatic transmission, remove the oil filter and extension.
9.	Unfasten the oil pan bolts and remove the oil pan.

If this doesn't do it, it must be the other one.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Nothing doing. But, just noticed the picture on the manual, it shows somethingf they call an "oil scraper", which I believe is kind of a baffle(?) This baffle is stuck to the oil pan- thats it, guys. If the baffle was unstuck, the pan should drop easy, I think. Im gonna try unsticking it with a putty knife. But question remains: how is one to put it back together with new gaskets like that arrangement?


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Sorry Yoy, I didnt mean "nothing doing " to your post- you beat me to my post!! Thnaks for the steps! OK, I will then make sure the exhaust is unbolted- this could take a while- heat with propane rusted nuts. Yoy, thatks for putting me on this hopeful path!!


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Nuts were rusted. but got em off. Whew. Close call as the ac tubing was soooo close....LOL. Ands, theres propane/isobutane ac referigerent!!

Still, protected them with multiple aluminum foil. Still, no luck- STILL STUCK. Pick up tube is visible- looks like it goes sideways into that "baffle". Im baffled..........Im out of options now.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Yoyizit said:


> For some reason there were two listings using your specs and both looked the same so I picked the first one.
> 
> 1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
> 2. Drain the crankcase. Raise and support the front of the vehicle.
> ...


Yoy, I know youre only trying to help a fellow member- #5 above- removing the starter is not necessary on my sunbird- manual is messed up- not youre fault- I see it all the time. #7 will do no good at this time either. 

Pan will not budge- stuck on pick up tube and even with stuff dropped, no matter. GM, sheesh.........


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

noquacks said:


> Geez, Yoy, tyhats a great , polite offer! OK, so its a 87 pontiac sunbird, GT NON turbo. 2.0L, removal of oil pan. Now, update:
> 
> Sorry guys, but I had to leave town for 10 days, and I just got back, catching up- whew.
> 
> ...


Once the bolt's out of the motor mount (s), have a block of wood ready to slip between the block and the frame. A 4-banger is light enough that you can jerk up on it and lift it by hand long enough to slip the wood in.
The pan should fall off by itself now
(if it's the pickup/baffle hanging up).


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

titanoman said:


> Once the bolt's out of the motor mount (s), have a block of wood ready to slip between the block and the frame. A 4-banger is light enough that you can jerk up on it and lift it by hand long enough to slip the wood in.
> The pan should fall off by itself now
> (if it's the pickup/baffle hanging up).


Thanks, Titan, but fall off? LOL. Just wanted to update you since were at it today- I finally unscrewed the 2 rusted nuts off the exhaust, destroyed my hands, lowered the "sub frame", and as I suspected, did do no good. This motor mount ides- how is that gonna affect the pan if right now the pan is touching nothing? lowering or reising engine at this time can not do a thing- I feekl like you guys are desperately trying to help, and still, the pan is hanging free, stuck/hung up on that tube "tip". Should I attempt to split the baffle/splash guard with the pan? hard to do- a putty knife may work, at some angles, other angles, impossible.

I doubt GM intended for this but yet, GM.........gees.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

I FOUND OUT WHY ITS HUNG UP!!!

Unbelievable goofiest engineering- the oil pick up tune meanders under the baffle, then UP through the baffle where it is visible (with a flash light) and bolts to the engine block from underneath!!!

Now, how is one supposed to unbolt that bolt, which will probably just drop like a dead rabbit into the bottom of the oil pan IF one can ever say, get a slim 10-12mm open end wrench to unscrew it? Even worse, how is one then sopposed to put the bolt back with such a tight space between the pan upper surface and the bottom of the block???

What was GM think ing about when they engineered this? Yes, guys, I figured out whats holding it stuck, but its still of no use without understanding how to unbolt this pick up tube support bracket. 

Sigh.........


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

There's got to be a way to turn it or something.
Maybe go to the parts store and look at a pick-up tube...
Or a junkyard...
I'm starting to run out of ideas for you...


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

thats a good tip, titan- auto parts store- gotta go there for somethuing else anyway. There has got to be a way- renewed hope.

Thnaks, Man. And thanks for following up!


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Well, after many phone calls/web search, no one stocks a pick up tube. Couldnt even find one /picture on the web. Even Rock Auto didnt have one. 

Soooo, I hapened to glance again at the shop manual diagram of engine and it hit me- that bolt that is screwed to the block holds a "clip" which , looks like, holds that p/u tube! So, I just have to try to "unclip" /pull the p/u tube of that clip! 

Yes, the bolt and clip remain on the bottom of engine block, while theoretically, tha pan/baffle will snap off that clip. 

raining now........cant do this today.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

noquacks said:


> Well, after many phone calls/web search, no one stocks a pick up tube. Couldnt even find one /picture on the web. Even Rock Auto didnt have one.
> 
> Soooo, I hapened to glance again at the shop manual diagram of engine and it hit me- that bolt that is screwed to the block holds a "clip" which , looks like, holds that p/u tube! So, I just have to try to "unclip" /pull the p/u tube of that clip!
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're on to something, again.
Maybe after the rain you'll finally get this thing beat.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Got it out!!!!! (yahooooo)

Trick is- you have to putty knife off the pan gasket as it is a "slit" gasket that wraps around the splash sheild inside!! Man, Im a pioneer on this one, guys!

Yeah, you putty knife the pan off, it falls, but you then have to unclip the clip that holds the p/u tube . Thats a little tedious, but not so bad. At least you can see what youre doing and proceed without guessing/blindly. 

On to the next chore- cleaning it!!


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Glad to hear it. Getting sick of this thread. No I'm just kidding!
Any other questions about anything, this is a good place to go usually.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

LOL.....dont worry Titan, no problem- soon enuf I will start another thread- Im sure to get in trouble again......LOL


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