# Shingles



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

What are the best shingles out there ????


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Flipzbyrd said:


> What are the best shingles out there ????


:whistling2:


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks for yor time but, where can i find this information.Im look'n for a good quality shingle .Im look'n for a brand name or names Thanks again Flip


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

The best kinds of shingles are the ones installed correctly.

Proper nail patterns,exposures,overhang,proper nail fastening,proper vent installations,step flashing,pipe flashing,drip edge,underlayment installation and fastening,ventilation,window sill aprons,chimney pans and aprons,insulation,skylight flashing,pans and aprons,ridge vents,valley's,starters and ridge cap,pitch breaks,corners,dormers,moisture guard,redecking,wood replacement.


I might have left a couple out.But having the materials installed properly is just as if not more than the type of material your installing.


I can tell you my choices.,not that my opinion matters much but I prefer;


1.Certainteed-Symphony,GrandManor,Centennial,Carriage House,Presidential Shake TL and the Landmark series.


2.Tamko-Heritage Vintage and Heritage premium.


3.Owens Corning-Berkshire,Woodmoor,Woodcrest,Duration Premium Designer and the TruDefinition Premium.


4.GAF-Timberline Ultra HD,Timberline Prestique 40 HD,Timberline Armorshield 2.


5.Atlas-StormMaster series and the Pinnacle.

6.IKO-I have nothing to say about these shingles without making it seem I am making a post about why I dislike the manufacture.Somethings are better left alone.

Some of these shingles are Xtreme supreme.You are going to pay for top quality.IMO these are some of the best shingles on the market.


But you could buy the most expensive shingle on the market.,but if it's not installed properly it does you no good.

I would research your contracor as much as you do the shingle selection if not more.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Where is the home located?

Of the widely available shingles, Certainteed is my favorite as well.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thank You For Your Information & Your Time RoofMaster.Have A Good Day.Just Want To Make Sure Im gettt'n A Good Shingle For My Money.Around 19 Sq. $5100 For everything. Using Gaf/Elk 30 Year heritage Shingles .????Unsure if thats reasonable or what ????.Thanks again.
:thumbsup: Flip


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Windows i live in Iowa .Thanks for your info also.:thumbsup: Flip


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

I have been doing this for a couple days now and have not heard of GAF Heritage.,


Tamko is the Trademark holder on Heritage.

As far as the price @ $268 per square I hope it is a 1 layer on nothing exceeding a 6/12.

Where are you located?


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

I Live In Western,Iowa.The samples i'm look'n at say GAF,Timberline Lifetime High Defintion Shingles.The style is like Tamko hertage.Gaf merged with Elk a few years back.Yes it is 1 layer & not exceeding 6/12.So is that a reasoable cost.Putting in ridge vent ,plumbing vents,ice guards,& covering holes from old turtle vents & removal of waste.Flip Thanks Again Roofmaster.Is that reasonable or should i look around some more???FLIP:thumbsup:


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

If you are comfortable with the contractor and have checked references then its up to you to say if it is a fair price or not.I am not trying to dodge or side step your question but my pricing is different that your area.

It seems a few dollars low to me but.,maybe your contractor is getting materials at a reduced rate because of big bulk purchase on his materials.


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Flipzbyrd said:


> Gaf merged with Elk a few years back.


Your talking to a die hard roofer.,.,I know of the merge.:thumbsup:


I was just saying that Tamko has the trademark for the name Heritage.It has no affiliation with GAF or Elk..,other than being a shingle and building materials manufacture.,


----------



## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Roofmaster417 said:


> Your talking to a die hard roofer.,.,I know of the merge.:thumbsup:
> 
> I was just saying that Tamko has the trademark for the name Heritage.It has no affiliation with GAF or Elk..,other than being a shingle and building materials manufacture.,


I think he means they are dimensional shingles when he says they are like the tamki heritage.

www.paragonexteriors.com


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Very Cool Thanks Again For The Info & Your Time.I got Another estimate That Was $175 More A Week Ago So It Seems To Be In The Ball Park.Is Gaf/Elk A good shingle or should i request something different/better Flip


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

The Timberline Lifetime HD's was one that was on my list of solid shingles.

I am by no means any type of consumer report specialist so my "List" means nothing.

IMO if someone can afford it I would buy lifetimes rather than limiteds.

$175 is a decent spread on high to low.Hopefully both of them are not lowballers.


----------



## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Quite the answers for such a broad question.

Seems like the exact same conversation when bidding a job around here. Some contractor has a decent price, but is pricing gaf timberlines again.

Not the best, not the worst. More important is the installers and the "company" who will be in business long enough in case of any trouble.

There are some problems with the timberlines as of the last 10 years, but you can research that yourself. I've been preaching it since I became a member here.

Shingles and their quality varies greatly depending on your location. In the Midwest, it appears that Certainteed *Landmark* has the label of "best shingle" lately, and I would agree. Had them on my house for 11 years and have installed thousands of squares of them with my own two hands. Only one job so far that was defective shingles and CT footed the bill.

BTW, do a search here and you'll probably get 100 hits of the exact same question.


Price is a little low, IMO, but right in the ball park. Make sure the installers are what you want. Hopefully not $40/square sub contractors. If the "crew" shows up with an old pickup or van with blacked out windows and no lettering of any company name......RUN!


----------



## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Certainteed aren't labeled the best in my portion of the mid-west.
They do make the top four list along with GAF, Tamko and Owens Corning.
All tho OC has been losing ground as of the past few years.
IKO and Atlas finish the line up for my area.

I don't have company logos on my van and the side & rear windows are tinted (manufacturer tinted).

Dang, I'm a scab and didn't know it .

The first GAF timberline roof I installed was in 82/83 and it's still intact today.
The first Certainteed land mark I installed was in 85/86 and it's still intact today.
(We installed mostly 3-tabs in the 80's)


----------



## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Slyfox said:


> Certainteed aren't labeled the best in my portion of the mid-west.
> They do make the top four list along with GAF, Tamko and Owens Corning.
> All tho OC has been losing ground as of the past few years.
> IKO and Atlas finish the line up for my area.
> ...



LOL, you remind me so much of my father. :laughing:

You know exactly what I meant when talking about the vehicle. :whistling2:

The only sticker on my truck says "Hire Licensed Contractors".


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

How do you find out if there licensed contractors???Flip


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Flipzbyrd said:


> How do you find out if there licensed contractors???Flip


Some areas and states unfortunately don't require a license for roofing.Meaning having to be tested so they know you are knowledgable enough to roof.

Most cities and counties require a license to do business or contract.

You would call your city hall or building department.


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

Something else to keep in mind is if they offer a workmanship warranty and have been around for awhile. No matter what type of shingles you buy, if they aren't installed correctly the manufacturer warranty becomes void. So you'll just be stuck with the company that did it...if you can find them


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks Roofmaster Who makes CRC Shingles???
Seen a truck with a pallet of them said CRC on the side.


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Did the truck have CRC on it? The Canroof Corporation.,,,,,IKO's


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks new heights yep been around a while 18 years experience A+ on the BBB & no complaints more worried 'bout the shingle he's using GAF/Elk


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

No Just seen the pallet of shingles that had the CRC on them


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

The tar strip on the GAF/ELK are in a different spot then the tamko's that are on the house now???


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Flipzbyrd said:


> No Just seen the pallet of shingles that had the CRC on them


 
The Canroof Corporation.,,,,,IKO's


----------



## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

CRC's are from Menards and they shouldn't be selling them to anyone, IMO.

Experience and BBB rating means nothing unless that is the person installing them. Some Contractors have 30 plus years experience contracting, but zero with roofing....and the subs they hire may or may not have started shingling this year or last.

Just look at some of the stories here about how the subs or workers have screwed up from lack of knowledge and experience.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yes he has 18 years of roofing experience & he will be the one doing it.Thanks for your info


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

I understand your point MJW but not all who hire subs or have other people perform work hire hacks.

I have several sub crews and a crew of my own.All work is inspected prior to final payment by the customers.No exceptions.I won't pay the subs until the jobs are inspected.

Even though they have been with me for a while there is always a first time for everything.

I am involved in every project in one form or the other.Just because I am not there during the entire process I am still involved before,during and after the project completion.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Sounds like your the man i need for my roof.This guy says GAF/ELK is a very good shingle & if installed to manufacture specs & with proper ventilation will be a good shingle.Whats your take on ridge vents???He wants to install them.I now have 5 turtle vents & they ar 3-31/2 from ridge he says thats no good.He want s to take them out & install a ridge vent then check to see if i have enough proper intake.What your advice


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

& should i bump my felt up from 15# to 30#????


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

Ridgevent is definitely a good idea. Cans just don't keep up unless you have a ton of them. Is he going to add vent and keep your cans or patch them up? IMO if he's putting ridgevent on there's no need to keep the cans, they just look bad.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

& should i bump up my felt from 15# to 30# i was told i was a goodm idea


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yes he is removing them & putting in inserts that cover the hole


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

Felt isn't necessary to bump up to the thicker stuff. But if you're using 15# felt I'd go with an ASTM rated one, which is thicker than the stuff you buy at Home Depot (which closely resembles printer paper)


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks Again New What brand of shingle do you use or prefer??


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

I use a lot of Pabco because of the price and quality, used to use GAF but the price is way high around here. I may start using Certainteed too since it's got a really nice pattern on it that looks great from the ground. Everytime I've used IKO I've been disappointed.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Where are you located New Heights???
Western,Iowa here.


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

North Idaho


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

COOL Thanks Again for all your info.FLIP


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

No problem, happy to help!


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Roofmaster417 said:


> *I have several sub crews and a crew of my* *own.All work is inspected prior to final payment by the customers.No exceptions.I won't pay the subs until the jobs are inspected.*
> 
> 
> > I use to run subs in addition to whatever I was working on at the time. BEWARE….I don’t care how well you think you trust them it can come back to bite you.
> ...


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thats kinda what i thought cuz nail position/placement is critical & check'n them all is pretty much impossible. Flip


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

mn n ,m ,


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

RoofMaster ???mn n,m,????


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Oops.,


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Flipzbyrd said:


> RoofMaster ???mn n,m,????


Quiet, he’s meditating.


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Not criticizing you RM…..just saying.


----------



## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Flipzbyrd said:


> RoofMaster ???mn n,m,????


I was just going to say that I know the pro's and con's of sub work.

I enjoyed life a little better when it was myself and 1 crew.Now I have 3 roofing crews and 2 siding crews and 1 seamless gutter crew.

It is alot to handle.But that is the business I am in.But I still make the time to have all work inspected.So far it has been a proven process.

A knowledgable and competent contractor who desires much more than a final payment can determine a hack roof and a spec roof.It is so simple to determine it shows that when contractors are burned then they really only have themselves to blame.Too many times people get caught up in the "money" they forget some principles.

When I pull up to a job before I get out of my truck I can scan several areas that a hack job would make itself present.As I am sure MJW,Ed,Omega,Sly,See you,Lone Framer,KFR and others can do.

These are the things I look at coming up the ladder.

1.Drip edge

2.Overhang

3.Parallel course lines with the gutter

4.Verticals with tabs

After I am on the roof;

5.Nail patterns,and fastener counts at random on ALL slopes.

6.Valley installations,proper lace and chalk line cuts & tips.

7.Straight ridge cap and fasteners at random.

8.Step flashing,aprons and pans.

9.Vent and plumbing flashing,furnace flashing

10.Step flashing to apron transitions at walls.

12.Proper skylight installations.

These are just a few but it takes initiative and a no B.S attitude and constant commitment to pride in workmanship.

I pay visits to my jobsites periodically and also at random.No one knows when or where I will be coming from or what I might be driving.Yes it is pathetic having to babysit but hey this is my life.

If you stay on your guys drilling proper installation and making sure all safety restrictions are followed then they start to get it.

I even sneak up and make sure harnesses are being used.Osha isn't playing and I command attention to these existing and new laws.

Not trying for a pat on the back because that isn't my style but it IS posible to have multiple crews and maintain control while putting out quality workmanship.

In storm and catastrophe zones it actually is difficult to stay small with 1 crew.Getting 100+ calls per day and signing 15-20 per week it is impossible to handle that workload with a single crew.


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

> I enjoyed life a little better when it was myself and 1 crew.


Back to the basics, best move I ever made.


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

Roofmaster...have you read the E-Myth?

If not go pick up a copy and give it a read through, could give you some cool ideas about your business.


----------



## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

RM is right, poor workmanship can be seen from the ground quite often and is inspection points are spot on also.
I would have included looking/feeling for sheathing issues also, can't even guess at how many times I inspected a roof to find the installers laid over bad sheathing.

I know the pros & cons of sub work also. (first hand)

I operated a roofing business from 1994 too 2010 "Fox Roofing" and was never involved in a lawsuit and never had an insurance claim.
Now (do to personal reasons, not bad business) I am a self employed sub contractor.
I carry liability & workers comp insurances which is all that's required of me (subs) in my region.

When a business subs out work to me he/she is getting a roofer with over 30 years of experience in the trade and experienced in industrial, commercial and residential systems.
So not all subs are hacks.
Not all contractors offer quality work or operate a business.
The fact is, most contractors only think' they run a business, but in reality their just a self employed contractor with a bunch of people working for them and treated/paid as individual self employed subs.

I would guess that's a portion of the reason that 80% of the 'roofing companies in business today will not be in business in five years from now,
because they were never actually a business from the start.


----------



## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Slyfox said:


> RM is right, poor workmanship can be seen from the ground quite often and is inspection points are spot on also.
> I would have included looking/feeling for sheathing issues also, can't even guess at how many times I inspected a roof to find the installers laid over bad sheathing.
> 
> I know the pros & cons of sub work also. (first hand)
> ...


This is very true. Majority of roofing "companies" aren't companies at all. They are self employed employees of there own company. If you aren't able to take a two week vacation and get back with jobs completed, started and more sold then you aren't really running a business. At least that is how I think.

I know I personally have NO time to get on the roof to do any physical work.


----------



## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

ParagonEx said:


> This is very true. Majority of roofing "companies" aren't companies at all. *They are self employed employees of there own company.* If you aren't able to take a two week vacation and get back with jobs completed, started and more sold then you aren't really running a business. At least that is how I think.
> 
> I know I personally have NO time to get on the roof to do any physical work.



Umm, that is most small businesses in this country.

Your way of running a business is just being an owner (stock holder if you will). Nothing wrong with it, just different than others. 
Do you employ any installers or only sales people?


----------



## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

MJW said:


> Umm, that is most small businesses in this country.
> 
> Your way of running a business is just being an owner (stock holder if you will). Nothing wrong with it, just different than others.
> Do you employ any installers or only sales people?


There is nothing wrong with being a self employed employee of your own company until you get too old to do it and with roofing, we all know you don't last too long physically. For other professions, it is great. I just knew when I started roofing, I couldn't last forever doing it physically. Then my predominant hand broke and I had to have surgery. Have to get surgery again. It hurts to swing a hammer and make contact.

Myself and one other person (used to be an installer for 20 years) do the sales. A crew of 5/6 guys do all the installation work but we do sub out gutters. Other than that, we do everything else in house. I am a little bit too much of a control freak and demand things to be done my way and show up too much to deal with subs.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

I Live In western iowa,how much ice gutter guard should be installed with 2' overhang & 6" walls.?How much past the warm wall?& What do you guys recommend 15# Felt or 30# Felt on a fairly steep roof don't know the grade??Contractor want to put 15# felt & only 3' of ice guard.Flip


----------



## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

15# is fine as long as it is covered that same day. Use 6ft I+w

www.paragonexteriors.com


----------



## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

To meet code you have to have Ice Shield on the roof 24" horizontally on the inside of the exterior wall. So 2 rows of Ice shield sounds like it will be enough to pass code. If you're going to go with 15# I would at least do the ASTM stuff, it's a lot thicker than regular 15# felt.


----------



## Flipzbyrd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks New Height!!!! FLIP


----------

