# Lead paint under drywall?



## EdBoston (Apr 9, 2018)

Hi all,

I have been planning to take out three walls and know that we have lead painted plaster in pretty much all of our house (built in 1890s). Was anticipating this and had testing done with XRF gun. Tests showed no lead, BUT when we started work found that much of the wall was 1/4" drywall over the old plaster/lath walls.

Now I'm worried that there actually is lead paint that was encapsulated by the drywall, and we have a toddler in the house. Lead-check strips were negative for the edge of the plaster but I'm not sure how to proceed.

Does anyone know if XRF gun testing would have detected lead under the drywall encapsulation?

Thanks!


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## Marson (Jan 26, 2018)

I believe the XRF will detect lead under drywall. I used to do a ton of work in houses with lead paint, and actually was trained as a lead abater. First, at least where I am from (Duluth Minnesota) lead paint is typically found on painted trim, maybe siding, and if on plaster, only in bathrooms. Lead paint was expensive, so they only used it where it was really needed. Typically. So I would open up the wall enough to get a good swab test on the painted plaster. Likely your swab test will come up negative. 


The thing about lead dust is that it is quite heavy and will not remain airborne for long. It winds up on the floor and that's where toddler's pick it up. So you would want to take some precautions anyway, like covering the floor with 6 mil poly, doing your demo, and then wrapping up the poly and getting it out of there. Then go over the floor with a Hepa vac, or at least a shop vac with a hepa filter. Then swiffer it with wet swiffers if this is possible. 

Lead on plaster really isn't that bad in my experience. Demoing it is a very dusty process, but the dust is plaster dust, not lead. We have even done air monitoring when demoing plaster with lead paint on it, and detected nothing. What is bad is lead paint on doors and windows, because continued operation keeps rubbing lead dust off of the frames.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If you wish to believe such garbage....

Stop the nonsense.
You can get more lead from drinking water.

Do your own too, don't just take my word for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning_epidemics


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12584008

"""" Abstract
This study was conducted to describe trends in US lead poisoning-related deaths between 1979 and 1998. The predictive value of relevant ICD-9 codes was also evaluated. Multiple cause-of-death files were searched for records containing relevant ICD-9 codes, and underlying causes and demographic characteristics were assessed. For 1979-1988, death certificates were reviewed; lead source information was abstracted and accuracy of coding was determined. An estimated 200 lead poisoning-related deaths occurred from 1979 to 1998. Most were among males (74%), Blacks (67%), adults of age >/=45 years (76%), and Southerners (70%). The death rate was significantly lower in more recent years. An alcohol-related code was a contributing cause for 28% of adults. Only three of nine ICD-9 codes for lead poisoning were highly predictive of lead poisoning-related deaths. In conclusion, lead poisoning-related death rates have dropped dramatically since earlier decades and are continuing to decline. However, the findings imply that moonshine ingestion remains a source of high-dose lead exposure in adults.

PMID: 12584008
[Indexed for MEDLINE] """""""

And..

https://www.google.com/search?ei=Wz...i67k1j0i131i46i67k1j46i131i67k1.0.DLwersr8C-s


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I agree with @ron45 , there is still nothing wrong with plastic sheets on door ways, wearing coveralls and dust mask and bagging stuff and making every attempt to contain the dust. Because if not dust gets everywhere and is a nuisance.
With an old house no testing needed if there was paint on the walls, it was lead.


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## Marson (Jan 26, 2018)

ron45 said:


> If you wish to believe such garbage....
> 
> Stop the nonsense.
> You can get more lead from drinking water.
> ...


No surprise that there aren't a lot of people dying from lead poisoning. The problem with lead isn't deaths, it's the effect on the development of young children, especially their brains. Lead is a neurotoxin. 
*Checklist of Possible Neuropsychological Problems Associated with Lead *



Delayed language or motor milestones (infant, toddler)
Poor speech articulation
Poor language understanding or usage
Problems maintaining attention in school or home
High activity level (hyperactivity)
Problems with learning and remembering new information
Rigid, inflexible problem-solving abilities
Delayed general intellectual abilities
Learning problems in school (reading, language, math, writing)
Problems controlling behavior (e.g., aggressive, impulsive)
Problems with fine or gross motor coordination
From https://www.mwph.org/programs/lead-treatment/effects


If I had a young child, and I lived in a house with known lead paint, I would be taking precautions.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

And...

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/scrib...files/docs/publications/bls/bls_0426_1927.pdf


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Just like the arsenic scare in treated lumber.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ive-arsenic-lead-and-bpa-new-study/794291001/

"" Correction and Clarifications: This story has been updated to reflect how the Clean Label Project is funded.

An alarming study released Wednesday found many baby food products test positive for arsenic, including 80% of infant formulas. And, that's not the only dangerous contaminate found.

The Clean Label Project, a nonprofit advocating for transparent labeling, tested baby food, infant formulas, toddler drinks and snacks purchased within the past 5 months. The group, which did not publish findings in a peer-reviewed journal, looked at top-selling formulas and baby food using Nielsen data, and also included emerging national brands. After about 530 baby food products were tested, researchers found 65% of products tested positive for arsenic, 36% for lead, 58% for cadmium and 10% for acrylamide. All of these chemicals pose potential dangers to developing infants. 

Jennifer Lowry, pediatrician and toxicologist at Children’s Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Mo., who is not affiliated with the research, said these chemicals can affect fine motor skills and cognition. 


Mainstream brands including Gerber, Enfamil, Plum Organics and Sprout were among the worst offenders — scoring two out of five in the Clean Label Project's report card for toxic metals. Plus, 60% of products claiming to be "BPA free" tested positive for the industrial chemical bisphenol A. The quantities of contaminates range, but some products tested positive for up to 600 parts of arsenic per billion. That's far more than just trace amounts.

Arsenic was the most common contaminate spotted in the Clean Label Project study. Nearly 80% of infant formula samples tested positive for arsenic. The toxin is associated with developmental defects, cardiovascular disease, neurotoxicity, diabetes and even cancer, according to the World Health Organization. 

Jaclyn Bowen, executive director of Clean Label Project and a food safety scientist, said rice-based baby food such as snack puffs had some of the highest levels of arsenic. 

In 2016, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration proposed a limit of 100 parts per billion of arsenic in infant rice cereal, but isn't enforcing that limit. Rice often absorbs arsenic from contaminated soil as it grows in the environment.

"It is important for consumers to understand that some contaminants, such as heavy metals like lead or arsenic, are in the environment and cannot simply be removed from food," Peter Cassell, a FDA spokesperson.

From Snopes

"" Arsenic: 9.16% of baby food samples (89 out of 873) contained trace levels of arsenic (generally between 10 and 40 parts per billion)
Cadmium: 27% of baby food samples (236 out of 873) contained trace levels of cadmium (generally between one and five parts per billion)
Lead: 18.6% of baby food samples (276 out of 1,484) contained trace levels of lead (generally between seven and 30 parts per billion.)""


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

We hear horror stories all the time.

But what happens when they don't come true.?


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## EdBoston (Apr 9, 2018)

I did go back as Marson suggested and open up more of the wall. The lead-chek strips were positive for the paint under there. 

Thanks very much for all the advice everyone - we will take the lead clean-up precautions (why risk it with your kid?) but try not to go crazy about it.

Appreciate all the quick answers!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The 2 main dangers from lead based paints is ingestion and inhalation. Sealing off the portion of the house you are working on [along with wearing a mask] will contain the dust. Containing/disposing and cleaning everything up well will just about eliminate the chance of a child ingesting lead chips.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If you cover the floors too , you can mist it with water to keep the dust falling instead of floating in the air.


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