# Best bang-for-the-buck drill driver for beginners



## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

It's time for me to do my own drilling but I have zero clues on how to do it. I will be using this mainly for computer modding stuff and maybe a handful of home improvement stuff in the future. I just figured that I need to start how to learn drilling. And the first thing to consider is which drill driver I should buy.


Do you guys have any recommendations as to which tool would suffice for now? I don't want to be overly cheap but possible on the bang-for-the-buck side.


Thanks for the help.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Go to Home Depot and see what is on sale. They sell kits that will have a drill and impact driver.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Windows on Wash said:


> Go to Home Depot and see what is on sale. They sell kits that will have a drill and impact driver.



I'm from the Philippines but will probably be buying from the US or locally depending on what's available. I don't think I would need an impact driver for now. So specific recommendations for brand and model would really help a lot.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

Ryobi is decent and cheap. I prefer Ridgid, but might be overkill for your needs.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

A Drill/driver can transfer a lot of torque to your wrist if you are screwing into hard wood, or driving long or large screws. An impact driver doesn’t. It can save a lot of wrist strain.

It’s also more compact than a drill and gets in places the drill can not.

For the small cost difference, I’d get the drill and impact set.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

For driving screws and such an impact is a must, IMO. It's easier on the screws (less likely to strip a head) and easier on your arm, like someone else mentioned. You can get the "two packs" with a drill and impact plus 2 batteries on sale somewhat often. You only need a 1/4" impact, and ideally one that has adjustable speeds (very nice to have, but not necessary).

If you get an impact also pick up a basic 1/4" impact drive set. Will include a bunch of different drivers for various screws like Phillips, Torx, and some nut drivers. They're pretty cheap and usually come in a handy carrying case. 

Sometimes you can get sets that also include drill bits with the drivers, again they usually aren't super spendy and have most of what the typical homeowner will need.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I think for computer assembly, which is mostly involving small machine screws, a typical drill/driver might be overkill and a lot of weight. A rechargeable screwdriver might be more appropriate (no input WRT brands). Depending on what the scope of home improvement you envision, it might work as well or you might have to upgrade to a drill-driver.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Harbor freight has rechargeable screwdrivers and 1/4" shank drill bit sets for light work.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

There's not really anything as far as a "beginner's drill", you buy one, you get on it, and go. But there are differences, like speed, amount of torque, and how they fit your hand. And for what you described, the latter is probably the biggest consideration. You're not drilling through a 4" channel on a trailer, or through a piece of 2" angle iron, but when drilling a computer case or something like that, or even say you want to drill pilot holes for a set of door hinges, you want something that fits comfortably in one hand. I would head to the nearest hardware store or big box, go down the rack, and see how they feel to you.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Oso954 said:


> A Drill/driver can transfer a lot of torque to your wrist if you are screwing into hard wood, or driving long or large screws. An impact driver doesn’t. It can save a lot of wrist strain.
> 
> It’s also more compact than a drill and gets in places the drill can not.
> 
> For the small cost difference, I’d get the drill and impact set.






Joeywhat said:


> For driving screws and such an impact is a must, IMO. It's easier on the screws (less likely to strip a head) and easier on your arm, like someone else mentioned. You can get the "two packs" with a drill and impact plus 2 batteries on sale somewhat often. You only need a 1/4" impact, and ideally one that has adjustable speeds (very nice to have, but not necessary).
> 
> If you get an impact also pick up a basic 1/4" impact drive set. Will include a bunch of different drivers for various screws like Phillips, Torx, and some nut drivers. They're pretty cheap and usually come in a handy carrying case.
> 
> Sometimes you can get sets that also include drill bits with the drivers, again they usually aren't super spendy and have most of what the typical homeowner will need.


Impact drivers are only used for screws and not anything else, right? Can you slow down with impact drivers?





lenaitch said:


> I think for computer assembly, which is mostly involving small machine screws, a typical drill/driver might be overkill and a lot of weight. A rechargeable screwdriver might be more appropriate (no input WRT brands). Depending on what the scope of home improvement you envision, it might work as well or you might have to upgrade to a drill-driver.


Yeah, I'm more talking about computer case modding rather than computer assembly itself. You kind of need a drill with that. 





DexterII said:


> There's not really anything as far as a "beginner's drill", you buy one, you get on it, and go. But there are differences, like speed, amount of torque, and how they fit your hand. And for what you described, the latter is probably the biggest consideration. You're not drilling through a 4" channel on a trailer, or through a piece of 2" angle iron, but when drilling a computer case or something like that, or even say you want to drill pilot holes for a set of door hinges, you want something that fits comfortably in one hand. I would head to the nearest hardware store or big box, go down the rack, and see how they feel to you.


Yeah, I guess when I say beginner I mean a drill driver that doesn't have really high power (hence usually cheaper in price) and like you said fits comfortably in my hand. I'll see if I can go down to my local hardware store to check out some of the ones they have available.

On another note, are drill driver battery chargers usually autovolt?

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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I use this 90% of the time when I need a screwdriver. It isn't really good at driving a long screw into wood, but for applications like pocket hole joinery, it's perfect. Drill the hole with a 20V drill, and a Kreg jig, then assemble the joint with the screw driver. Plenty of torque for a tight joint, but no risk of blowing a hole through the side of whatever you are building. I have the dewalt 20v impact driver and it's strong. It will bury the head of a 3 inch screw a 1/2 inch into treated lumber if you aren't careful. I also have the dewalt 20v atomic drill/driver and use it for most general drilling/driving needs. It works well and has adjustable torque so you don't overdrive a screw. I have the 20V hammer drill for big jobs. It will blow 1/4 inch hole in concrete easily. This is the one I would keep, if I could only keep one, but I think this 8V screwdriver or something like it would suit your purposes.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-...Battery-1Ah-1-Hour-Charger-DCF682N1/205926188


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the screwdriver recommendations but I'm really more of looking into a drill driver because I will definitely need to drill when modding computer cases. I know drills can serve many purposes so I guess I'll be starting with that tool. With so many choices available, it's really confusing which would suit my needs.

I'm also buying this drill bit for my PETG tube chamfering/deburring needs:

https://www.primochill.com/products/primochill-rfb-rigid-tubing-finishing-bit

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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

kevindd992002 said:


> Yeah, I'm more talking about computer case modding rather than computer assembly itself. You kind of need a drill with that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk



You are dealing with fairly mild and thin steel. A cordless screw driver might still work for you. I just think holding a full sized, home improvement-type 3/8" drill/driver while dinking around a computer cabinet might get really old really fast.


Some of the screwdrivers have hex chucks, some have traditional jaw chucks.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

lenaitch said:


> You are dealing with fairly mild and thin steel. A cordless screw driver might still work for you. I just think holding a full sized, home improvement-type 3/8" drill/driver while dinking around a computer cabinet might get really old really fast.
> 
> 
> Some of the screwdrivers have hex chucks, some have traditional jaw chucks.


I'm not really limited to computer cases. If I want to do basic drilling on my concrete walls, I would assume a drill/driver is warranted, no?

On another note, how's controlling a cordless like? Do you hold it like how you hold a pen or something?

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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

.....


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If you're going to do much drilling in concrete, you may want to bump up to a driver that is also a hammer drill. 



It's nice to have a set where everything uses the same batteries, but in your situation (as I understand it), you may find it more comfortable to get a small, lightweight, low voltage driver for the small screws and such, and a bigger hammer drill / driver for the heavy-duty drilling. Impact drivers are nicer than a regular drill/driver for driving longer screws, but not necessary. I built several decks and playsets using a good high-torque drill/driver before I got an impact driver. 



The regular drill/drivers are also quieter than the impact drivers, and you definitely don't want to use an impact driver on small screws. Just to illustrate, I have a bunch of security screws that use a T15H ("H" apparently stand for "hole in the middle"), and I broke a dozen bits trying to drive them with the impact driver before switching back to my regular driver.


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

kevindd992002 said:


> I'm not really limited to computer cases. If I want to do basic drilling on my concrete walls, I would assume a drill/driver is warranted, no?
> 
> On another note, how's controlling a cordless like? Do you hold it like how you hold a pen or something?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


If you're going to drill into concrete walls you will be better off with a hammer drill. For the light computer work a drill/driver with clutch settings that will let you adjust the torque so that you don't overdrive the screws. Light screw driving with an impact driver can be tricky in that you have to be careful. I haven't bought a drill/driver or impact driver in quite a while so I don't know if there are impact drivers that have clutches.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> If you're going to do much drilling in concrete, you may want to bump up to a driver that is also a hammer drill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see.

When you drill through a wall (say installing tv wall mount hardware), do you need a heavy duty drill/driver? Or would the regular ones be enough?

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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

JIMMIEM said:


> If you're going to drill into concrete walls you will be better off with a hammer drill. For the light computer work a drill/driver with clutch settings that will let you adjust the torque so that you don't overdrive the screws. Light screw driving with an impact driver can be tricky in that you have to be careful. I haven't bought a drill/driver or impact driver in quite a while so I don't know if there are impact drivers that have clutches.


Ok. Yeah, I don't see where I would use an impact driver. From what you guys are recommending, I would be better off with one regular drill/driver for all around tasks and another heavy duty drill/driver for masonry drilling.

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> For the light computer work a drill/driver with clutch settings that will let you adjust the torque so that you don't overdrive the screws.



That's true, but if it was me, I wouldn't want to handle something that heavy for the light work. Having a separate compact driver (like one of the 4-volt rechargeable ones) could be better for that.




> Light screw driving with an impact driver can be tricky in that you have to be careful.



I definitely agree with that.




> I don't know if there are impact drivers that have clutches.



Not that I've seen, and I have looked recently.


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

kevindd992002 said:


> Ok. Yeah, I don't see where I would use an impact driver. From what you guys are recommending, I would be better off with one regular drill/driver for all around tasks and another heavy duty drill/driver for masonry drilling.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


For masonry drilling a Hammer Drill will work best. It will take a long time to drill into concrete with a regular drill driver. The hammer drill will work as a regular drill or a hammer drill. When you switch on the hammer function the drill strikes with a hammering motion in addition to the drilling motion. The hammering chips the concrete while it is drilling into it and makes the whole process goes faster.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> I would be better off with one regular drill/driver for all around tasks and another heavy duty drill/driver for masonry drilling.



Pretty much. I would recommend a small and light hex driver for small screws and drilling small holes (w/ 1/4" hex base drill bits), and then a regular hammer drill/driver for the bigger stuff. Whether you go "heavy-duty" mostly depends on how big of screws you anticipate driving. For 3' or 4" construction screws or timber fasteners, you need higher torque, but for drilling even fairly large holes, you really don't. So unless you're driving large or long screws, you could probably go with one of the mid-range (12-18V) hammer drills.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

kevindd992002 said:


> I see.
> 
> When you drill through a wall (say installing tv wall mount hardware), do you need a heavy duty drill/driver? Or would the regular ones be enough?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk



Depends what you walls are made of. Typical wooden studs can easily be drilled with a typical drill driver. If they are block or concrete, maybe not so much; perhaps the more powerful ones and good bits. Better off with a hammer setting.


A range that includes light machine screws all the way up to boring concrete really does suggest more than one tool.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Pretty much. I would recommend a small and light hex driver for small screws and drilling small holes (w/ 1/4" hex base drill bits), and then a regular hammer drill/driver for the bigger stuff. Whether you go "heavy-duty" mostly depends on how big of screws you anticipate driving. For 3' or 4" construction screws or timber fasteners, you need higher torque, but for drilling even fairly large holes, you really don't. So unless you're driving large or long screws, you could probably go with one of the mid-range (12-18V) hammer drills.





lenaitch said:


> Depends what you walls are made of. Typical wooden studs can easily be drilled with a typical drill driver. If they are block or concrete, maybe not so much; perhaps the more powerful ones and good bits. Better off with a hammer setting.
> 
> 
> A range that includes light machine screws all the way up to boring concrete really does suggest more than one tool.


Do most cordless screwdrivers use 1/4" chuck? 

Would it make sense to buy a cordless screw driver and a regular drill/driver if I don't consider masonry drilling in the picture? A 1/2" chuck perhaps? Or a 1" so that it would accept all drill bit chuck sizes up to 1"?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Do most cordless screwdrivers use 1/4" chuck?


Most, as far as I know. 



> Would it make sense to buy a cordless screw driver and a regular drill/driver if I don't consider masonry drilling in the picture?



Probably.



> A 1/2" chuck perhaps? Or a 1" so that it would accept all drill bit chuck sizes up to 1"?



I haven't seen one with a bigger than a 1/2" chuck, nor have I had any occasion to need one. All the drill bits I've ever used had a shaft diameter a 1/2" or less.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I have several sets of Makitas in NY and they are great. In FL I bought a Hitachi set (or is it AN Hitachi) that was a close out for less than a hundred bucks, it works just as well and it held a charge while I wasn’t there for 8 months.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tools-Drills-Hammer-Drills/RYOBI/N-5yc1vZc8wtZm5d

This is a hammer drill. It will act as either a normal drill, or a hammer drill. It also has a "driver mode" for putting in screws and such without killing your arm.

Use the hammer drill mode for concrete/masonry (and use a masonry bit), use "regular" drill mode for anything else.

Note that the the drill I linked to above does not include a battery. You can usually find a bundle deal with a battery for cheaper than buying separate.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

I wondered how this thread had gotten onto hammer drills, but had missed the post where you mentioned it, so now understand. If I'm reading correctly though, it sounds like you really want or need something for lighter work, "and gee, it would be nice to be able to drill into my concrete walls in case I ever wanted to". That in mind, I think you would really regret the weight of a hammer drill, even a combination regular/hammer, for what you initially described. So I would focus on the regular one first, but, if you are going cordless, it would make sense to go with a battery size for which that manufacturer also offered a hammer drill. That way, if you did ever buy the hammer drill, you could use the same batteries. Keep in mind too that the brands, flavors, and availability of these tools are a lot better today than they used to be, and, believe it or not, as tight as it might seem sometimes, in general, we really do spend money a lot more freely than we used to. Consequently, a lot of people think that, for example, you absolutely have to have a hammer drill to drill concrete. And yes, I have a hammer drill as well, in fact a couple of them, but coming from a time when such tools were not as readily available, no big box stores all over the place, and the ones that you did find came with "commercial grade" prices, you absolutely can drill concrete with a masonry bit in a regular drill. All of the time? No, of course not. But to hang pictures, install a door jamb, those things that might come up once or twice a year, yes, it will work.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> So I would focus on the regular one first, but, if you are going cordless, it would make sense to go with a battery size for which that manufacturer also offered a hammer drill.



I don't think I'd agree with that recommendation. The product lines that include a drill/driver with the hammer capability are all bigger and heavier than what someone would want for small screws and drilling small holes. I haven't seen a kit that includes a small, lightweight driver and a driver with the hammer drill feature, that use the same batteries. If the OP can find one, that would be ideal, but they don't seem to be available.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

For a basic drill I have to recommend the 20v dewalt. If you can't afford the 20v, get the 12v, just realize that it might have a struggle with concrete walls.

If you're working mostly on computer mods though, you want a Dremel not a drill - that was the only tool I needed for all of my chassis work - you can see what I did here https://www.diychatroom.com/members/mystriss-555287/albums/computer-case-modding/


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

HotRodx10 said:


> I don't think I'd agree with that recommendation. The product lines that include a drill/driver with the hammer capability are all bigger and heavier than what someone would want for small screws and drilling small holes. I haven't seen a kit that includes a small, lightweight driver and a driver with the hammer drill feature, that use the same batteries. If the OP can find one, that would be ideal, but they don't seem to be available.


That's okay, we don't have to agree, just depends what he finds comfortable for the primary tasks and how much he really needs a hammer drill. But, for instance, my 18 volt dewalt drills are comfortable enough to use in tight places, and I happen to also have an 18 volt hammer drill that use the same batteries. I have regular corded hammer drills, and the only reason I bought this one was because when I went to get a couple more batteries they had a kist with the hammer drill, two batteries, and can't remember, either a drill or impact driver for less than a package of two batteries. I would never recommend it for someone needing a hammer drill on a daily basis, but I've used it a couple of times for just one or two holes, rather than dragging a cord out, and it works fine. So, for occasional use, I think it's worth considering.


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## jayhanig (Feb 1, 2019)

kevindd992002 said:


> I'm from the Philippines but will probably be buying from the US or locally depending on what's available. I don't think I would need an impact driver for now. So specific recommendations for brand and model would really help a lot.


I learned long ago not to buy for today's needs but for tomorrow's. Every time I ever tried to save a few bucks, I ended up having to replace the lesser tool anyway when I came up against its limitations.

So you don't think you need an impact driver? You'd be amazed what it is capable of doing better than a drill/driver. Drills are OK for drilling but that's all they're really good at. I've had drills snatched out of my hand because the torque was more than my wrist could handle (think using a 4" hole saw); it hurt too. 

So open your eyes to the possibilities and don't buy what will do today's job but not tomorrow's. Particularly if they come in a package deal.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

No offense to the OP but he's gone from modifying computer cases to possibly drilling into concrete ! It's going to be tough to find a one size fits all . My opinion is he go down to his local hardware store/big box store and look at and feel everything they have available . It should be fairly quick to realize what is too big or too heavy . From there narrow down to what you like best and is something you can afford . 

My opinion is he needs a standard cordless drill for 95 % of his needs and a heavy duty 1/2" drill/hammer drill . It can be corded or cordless his choice . Next you need some drill bits and I think he should have a spring loaded punch to mark the center hole before drilling . This helps the bit not to wander when first starting . Use the spring punch just on metal , wood and masonary is a different animal .


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> depends what he finds comfortable for the primary tasks and how much he really needs a hammer drill.



I completely agree.




> But, for instance, my 18 volt dewalt drills are comfortable enough to use in tight places, and I happen to also have an 18 volt hammer drill that use the same batteries. I have regular corded hammer drills,



Same here, except substitute "Makita" for "Dewalt", add a trim saw, and I only have one corded hammer drill at the moment. 



Anyway, it just sounded like to me that the OP is mostly doing lighter work - small screws and drilling small holes. As light as it is, my driver isn't something I'd want to use alot for that type of work.


I haven't bought any of the cordless tools I have now in a kit (unless you count yard sales). I've bought 'bare tools' and aftermarket batteries, which are as good or better than the OEM at less than half the cost.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Yes, you guys are spot on. I really am aiming for light work. I just thought of the remote chance of having to drill in a concrete bhmut that's just it a "small possibility". So I'm sticking to light work and screw driving for now. 

I'm leaning towards a cordless screwdriver and a cordless drill. Is there any reason not to get gyroscopic screwdrivers? Is the gyroscope feature just a gimmick or does it help?
@Porsche986S As for spring loaded punch bits, are those simply bits that you need to do a center mark and then you continue with the bit you really intend to use?
@HotRodx10 Where do you buy your aftermarket batteries? Are they also branded?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Where do you buy your aftermarket batteries? Are they also branded?



Ebay, is my usual go-to source for alot of stuff, including power tool batteries. I've learned the hard way not to buy things that ship from mainland China; Hong Kong sometimes, but I mostly stick to USA sellers.


They're not name brands you'd recognize outside of the 3rd party battery market. There's several companies that produce replacement batteries and battery packs for hundreds of battery-powered devices. There are some options that aren't available from the OEM, like the 9.0 Ah battery pack for my Makita - 18V. OEM only makes up to 6.0 Ah. Not that I really_ want_ a 9.0 Ah battery, but still...


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

A spring-loaded center punch is not a bit; it's a pen-sized tool for making dimples as a starting point to drill holes, or simply to make a mark.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

kevindd992002 said:


> Yes, you guys are spot on. I really am aiming for light work. I just thought of the remote chance of having to drill in a concrete bhmut that's just it a "small possibility". So I'm sticking to light work and screw driving for now.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a cordless screwdriver and a cordless drill. Is there any reason not to get gyroscopic screwdrivers? Is the gyroscope feature just a gimmick or does it help?
> @Porsche986S As for spring loaded punch bits, are those simply bits that you need to do a center mark and then you continue with the bit you really intend to use?
> ...


My screwdriver is gyroscopic. Not an essential feature, but it does work.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Ebay, is my usual go-to source for alot of stuff, including power tool batteries. I've learned the hard way not to buy things that ship from mainland China; Hong Kong sometimes, but I mostly stick to USA sellers.
> 
> 
> They're not name brands you'd recognize outside of the 3rd party battery market. There's several companies that produce replacement batteries and battery packs for hundreds of battery-powered devices. There are some options that aren't available from the OEM, like the 9.0 Ah battery pack for my Makita - 18V. OEM only makes up to 6.0 Ah. Not that I really_ want_ a 9.0 Ah battery, but still...


I see. I'll probably stick with the batteries these manufacturers sell for now. What battery capacity is a decent one to get? 


HotRodx10 said:


> A spring-loaded center punch is not a bit; it's a pen-sized tool for making dimples as a starting point to drill holes, or simply to make a mark.


Oh ok, I see what you're saying.


Bigplanz said:


> My screwdriver is gyroscopic. Not an essential feature, but it does work.


Can you say that a regular cordless screwdriver (without a gyroscope) is more comfortable than a gyroscopic one?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> What battery capacity is a decent one to get?



Depends on what you're doing with it, and for how long. The bigger batteries obviously have a longer run time, but are also bulkier, heavier, and take longer to recharge. For my driver, I use the bigger ones (3 to 5 Ah), but when I take it out, I'm usually working on a big project for several hours, like building a shed, a playset, etc. If you're typically using it sporadically during your work, or even heavily for less than an hour or so at a time, the 1.5 or 2.0 Ah batteries may be all you need and want to carry and handle. The small ones don't last long when hammer drilling and in the trim saw, so if you add those to your tool kit, you'll probably want to add a couple bigger batteries, too. From what it sounds like, you'll probably be just fine with the smaller ones. You can always add on bigger ones later, if you find you need them. 





> I'll probably stick with the batteries these manufacturers sell for now.



To each their own. I'll never pay extra for OEM batteries again, if I have a choice. I bought an OEM battery from Home Depot (needed it right then) and ordered an aftermarket one the same size off Ebay for half the cost, which I got a week later. I used them both about the same amount. The OEM lasted about a year and a half; the Ebay one kicked at about the 3 year mark.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Can you say that a regular cordless screwdriver (without a gyroscope) is more comfortable than a gyroscopic one?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I haven't used anything other than the one I have. It works fine. Plenty of torque. Gyroscopic feature works fine. I use it all the time.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> What battery capacity is a decent one to get?


Depends on what you're doing with it, and for how long. The bigger batteries obviously have a longer run time, but are also bulkier, heavier, and take longer to recharge. For my driver, I use the bigger ones (3 to 5 Ah), but when I take it out, I'm usually working on a big project for several hours, like building a shed, a playset, etc. If you're typically using it sporadically during your work, or even heavily for less than an hour or so at a time, the 1.5 or 2.0 Ah batteries may be all you need and want to carry and handle. The small ones don't last long when hammer drilling and in the trim saw, so if you add those to your tool kit, you'll probably want to add a couple bigger batteries, too. From what it sounds like, you'll probably be just fine with the smaller ones. You can always add on bigger ones later, if you find you need them. 





> I'll probably stick with the batteries these manufacturers sell for now.


To each their own. I'll never pay extra for OEM batteries again, if I have a choice. I bought an OEM battery from Home Depot (needed it right then) and ordered an aftermarket one the same size off Ebay for half the cost, which I got a week later. I used them both about the same amount. The OEM lasted about a year and a half; the Ebay one kicked at about the 3 year mark.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Depends on what you're doing with it, and for how long. The bigger batteries obviously have a longer run time, but are also bulkier, heavier, and take longer to recharge. For my driver, I use the bigger ones (3 to 5 Ah), but when I take it out, I'm usually working on a big project for several hours, like building a shed, a playset, etc. If you're typically using it sporadically during your work, or even heavily for less than an hour or so at a time, the 1.5 or 2.0 Ah batteries may be all you need and want to carry and handle. The small ones don't last long when hammer drilling and in the trim saw, so if you add those to your tool kit, you'll probably want to add a couple bigger batteries, too. From what it sounds like, you'll probably be just fine with the smaller ones. You can always add on bigger ones later, if you find you need them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm kinda gearing towards the DeWalt DCD791. Do you mind linking me to an aftermarket battery that you recommend?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Any of the DCB200 series batteries will apparently work. I'd suggest starting out with a 2 Ah battery, like this one, and maybe a 4, 5, or this 6 Ah to have for bigger jobs. I usually look at the seller ratings, the product ratings, and delivery time.


You'll need a charger like this one, unless you're buying a kit.


Separately, you're in about $130 for the 2 Ah battery, the charger, and the drill.


As a kit, you can get the same 3 pieces (except a Dewalt battery and and a nice bag for it) for $140, so starting out, that's what I would do. If it were me, I'd probably spring for that 6 Ah battery as an add-on, but you might want to just pick up the 2 Ah battery as a spare. The Li-ion batteries charge about as fast as you can run them down (or faster), so having 2 of any size will keep you going without interruption, except to switch them out.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

(Dewalt fangirl checks in)

If you watch your local HD/Lowes ads for a while, you'll probs find a DW791 at the $80 price point with battery and charger. Typically it's the 1.3Ah or 2.0Ah battery, but for light work it's just fine. We ran our grass trimmer on the "stock" 1.3Ah or 2.0Ah for almost an hour. The 3.0Ah can run the chain saw (cutting healthy 6" trees) for a couple hours. The 5.0Ah is a beast, it's too heavy for me personally, but that'll do almost a day's worth of pro contractor/house construction work. 

Better analysis perhaps: 16 foot by 13 foot office, 2 1/2" screws through 1/2" sub-floor into slightly higher quality joists. Got 2/3 of the way through and battery died - husband looked at battery when going to replace it and realized he'd grabbed the 1.3Ah on accident. The 20 foot by 3 foot hallway + 6 foot by 6 foot landing got new sub-floor too; 2.0Ah had no problems finishing the whole thing. We rebuilt our entire staircase (stringers and all) with the 5.0Ah.

----

Also note, the batteries are typically not marked on the sides; look on the back of em cause the 1.2Ah and the 2.0Ah look very similar in size/weight: Top left 5Ah (yellow hard to confuse), top right 12v (black), middle left another 5AH, middle right 2.0Ah (yellow), bottom left 1.3AH (black), bottom right 2.0Ah (yellow)















Might have to enlarge pics, but at the top of the writing on the backs you'll find the Ah rating. 

----

Secondary note, if you need to save a bit of money for now, you might eyeball your local craigslist.com for 18v sets. Disclaimer; the 20v is soooo much better than the 18v - which imo are heavy, bulky, and super annoying to change out and charge. However, 18v sets are dirt cheap (at least up here) right now as everyone is switching over. We're giving our set away to a co-worker because it's not even worth trying to sell it LOL 

That said, you can later on do what we'd done for a while and buy the 18v to 20v converter to piggy back switching our (huge) collection over. Like we still haven't replaced the 18v impact driver, but we have the adapter so we can always throw a 20v on the impact if we need to. 

(Impact has a 1/2" square socket head vs the Drill has a hexi chuck btw - that'd confused me for a long while back; I liked the impact's much smaller footprint so I'd ordered an 18v impact, then had to cancel cause it wasn't what I really wanted HA True story; my favorite drill is the 12v, JS)


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

I also am loaded with Dewalt 20 and 60v. In this case, I think he could be happy with the Milwaukee 12v. I have an older 12v drill that is a hammer drill, but still very compact. He could then add on with an impact, multi tool, etc, as this lineup has many tools. The larger batteries help with tougher tasks, so those could also be added. 

As for the concrete drilling, if it is only occasional, spend a few dollars on a nice bit, and the hammer option wont be as necessary.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I've found the Milwaukee, and to a lesser extent the Dewalt tools to be heavy-duty and very durable, *but also very heavy weight-wise.* I've come to prefer the Makita cordless tools due to their lighter weight, comparable performance, and good durability. They may not endure 20 years of constant use, like a Milwaukee, but I've generally retired them in favor of a newer model while they were still operating. 



For some context, I'm more than a 'weekend warrior' when it comes to DIY stuff. I've remodeled my entire house (well almost - I'm finishing up the siding now, but every room inside has been done), and I regularly help friends remodel rooms, build sheds, playsets, etc. and build furniture for myself and others, so my tools get quite bit of use.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

I checked some 12V drill drivers and my mind just changed and started thinking that the 12V's would be perfect for me as a starter. They can do like 80% of what a regular 18V/20V can do aa long as we're not talking about heavy duty stuff.

Trying to keeo the overall cost to a minimum, I was looking at the Ryobi HJP003 initially but as I was checking reviews for different 12V drills, the Ridgid R82005 is considered to be a better pick overall. Do you guys have any experience with this Ridgid drill?

As for screwdriver and drill bit kits, would going with the DeWalts pretty much a no brainer? Or is this a whole different story? Would getting those magnetic bit holder be wise?

The only thing I don't like with the 12V's is that they don't have those magnetic area in the bottom that can hold your screws, bits, etc.

One more thing that I forgot to consider is that our mains here in the Philippines is 230V. I see that the chargers that come with both Ridgid and Ryobi are 120V input although you can easily do a workaround for the Ryobi'a to accept a 230V input. Are DeWalt chargers 120V too? Sure, I can use a step down transformer (which I already have) but it's just so much better without needing to use one.

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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh and btw, unfortunately HD blocks access from international countries (at least from the Philippines). So that's already a no for me. I can access Lowe'a website but I'm not sure if they accept international credit cards. Do you think there are good deals this coming 4th of July? 

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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm not certain of your specific applications....BUT FOR BANG-BuCK:

I'd go for Ryobi.

Just out to my SIL's and he had a recip saw from Ryobi and we never picked up my Milwakee,

My son has a Ryobi table saw that he has used to beat he11, and it has performed terrific.

Ryobi has a terrific line of compatible cordless other utility items...

Fo0rmerly Ryobia was considered a cheap homeowners tool, but I am impressed by their quality improvement...especially at their price/cost.


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## ratherbefishing (Jan 13, 2011)

If the question is bang for the buck, the answer is probably Ryobi. 

Personally, I've quit buying Ryobi, as I've been disappointed too many times. But that was before their bright green lithium ion line came out. I haven't tried it, but I know several tradesman who speak highly of it. And the variety of tools that take the batteries is impressive. 

For the electronics work, it may be worth looking at a 4 volt dedicated screwdriver. They are pretty inexpensive. I've used a little Skil for taking the plastic off and on motorcycles. It's not a lifetime tool. But it works. Looks like they are under $30 in the States.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

But for a small price increase, isn't Ridgid a better pick than Ryobi?

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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

kevindd992002 said:


> But for a small price increase, isn't Ridgid a better pick than Ryobi?



Maybe. Maybe not. Some tool lines might be and very likely are better than others, but in what respects, and how relevant is it to YOU? If your plumber's most significant buying factor is cost, he might replace his pickup with a Mini Cooper. Good for him, lower purchase price, lower operating costs, etc., but he's going to have to charge you more because now he has to pay for the supply house to deliver material that he can no longer carry himself. On the flip side, maybe your doctor decides to replace his car with a pickup so that he can haul his kayak on the weekends, but now he has to charge you more as a result of the public transportation he has to pay because the pickup won't fit in the small parking spaces at the medical complex. I don't know if this makes sense, but the point is that we all have different circumstances, and what is good for me may not be best for you. Is Rigid a better pick than Ryobi? I would say definitely for anyone using it day in and day out on construction sites, especially in all of the dust, dirt, rain, and everything else that comes with it. As I mentioned before though, it sounds like your primary task is more-or-less bench work, so, in a case like that, I would think weight, balance, and how it fits your hand is probably more important than how it holds up on a construction site. Just an example, I know a guy who bought his sons each Black & Decker cordless drills several years ago, "the price was too good to pass up", and I still rolled my eyes a bit, but they don't do much more than minor home repairs, and the last I knew they were still happy with them. It's all about what YOU want and/or need.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

As I was searching high and low for the best 12V that would suit my needs, I was fixated on the Bosch GSR12V-300 cordless drill until I searched the my local Bosch site. I've boiled the choices down to these two:


1. https://www.bosch-pt.com.ph/ph/en/products/gsr-12v-30-06019G90K0 -> a cordless drill/driver
2. https://www.bosch-pt.com.ph/ph/en/products/gsb-12v-30-06019G91K0 -> a cordless impact drill


Apparently, Bosch Philippines has three different categories: cordless drills/drivers, cordless impact drills, and cordless impact drivers. From other brands, it's usually just cordless drills/drivers and cordless impact drivers. So this somewhat got me confused.



Looking at the GSB 12V-30, it seems like a combination tool that can do drilling, screwdriving, and impact masonry drilling which seems nice. If my initial choice was the GSR 12V-300N (a US model that I will have to source, hence higher total cost), is the GSB 12V-30 the better choice locally?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Looking at the GSB 12V-30, it seems like a combination tool that can do drilling, screwdriving, and impact masonry drilling which seems nice.


 Don't confuse "impact" with "hammer". With an "impact driver", the impact is on the rotational effect (applying instantaneous high torque to turn screws or nuts). A hammer drill applies an axial hammering effect to the drill bit, as if you were hammering a nail. An impact driver is not suitable for drilling holes in concrete, or anything else, really. For drilling holes, you need a drill or a drill/driver. For drilling holes in concrete, you can use a regular drill or a drill/driver, but it will be slower than hammer drill, which will be especially noticeable for holes in concrete bigger than a 1/4". For driving bigger screws (construction or deck screws longer than 2" and/or bigger than a #12) an impact driver works considerably better. The impact drivers are typically shorter in length, so they fit into tighter spaces. Using an impact driver on small screws will result in a lot of stripped screws.

Ok, so looking at the specs for the drill you're looking at, it seems Bosch is mixing the terminology and using "impact" to describe the hammering effect. At least in regard to the Bosch tools you're looking at, you can disregard the previous paragraph.


The only thing that may be a potential concern for you is the max chuck capacity. For any drill bits you use bigger than 10mm,you'll need bits with a stepped down shank. Other than that, it looks like a solid choice.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Don't confuse "impact" with "hammer". With an "impact driver", the impact is on the rotational effect (applying instantaneous high torque to turn screws or nuts). A hammer drill applies an axial hammering effect to the drill bit, as if you were hammering a nail. An impact driver is not suitable for drilling holes in concrete, or anything else, really. For drilling holes, you need a drill or a drill/driver. For drilling holes in concrete, you can use a regular drill or a drill/driver, but it will be slower than hammer drill, which will be especially noticeable for holes in concrete bigger than a 1/4". For driving bigger screws (construction or deck screws longer than 2" and/or bigger than a #12) an impact driver works considerably better. The impact drivers are typically shorter in length, so they fit into tighter spaces. Using an impact driver on small screws will result in a lot of stripped screws.
> 
> Ok, so looking at the specs for the drill you're looking at, it seems Bosch is mixing the terminology and using "impact" to describe the hammering effect. At least in regard to the Bosch tools you're looking at, you can disregard the previous paragraph.
> 
> ...


While reading the first paragraph of your comment, I immediately came to the same conclusion that "impact drill" on their site really means "hammer drill". Comparing the technical specs of both though, they are pretty much the same except of course for the fact that the gsb has a hammer drill mode and it's length is a bit longer (as estimated in the product pictures). 

What do you mean? Are you saying hammer drill bits are usually bigger than 10mm (3/8")? I thought getting a 3/8" chuck would be s good choice for most light DIY tasks. 

What would make one choose the gsr vs the gsb if the difference is just around $20? Is the compactness of the gsr a good pro over the gsb?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> What do you mean? Are you saying hammer drill bits are usually bigger than 10mm (3/8")? I thought getting a 3/8" chuck would be s good choice for most light DIY tasks.



With most regular twist drill bits, the shank is the same size as the bit, so if you want to use a 12mm or 1/2" drill bit, you'd have to get ones with a reduced shank size. Probably not a big deal for your uses.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> What would make one choose the gsr vs the gsb if the difference is just around $20? Is the compactness of the gsr a good pro over the gsb?



The gsr is a little lighter, a little quieter, has supposedly a little less vibration, and is less cost. What it's lacking is the hammer drilling feature.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> With most regular twist drill bits, the shank is the same size as the bit, so if you want to use a 12mm or 1/2" drill bit, you'd have to get ones with a reduced shank size. Probably not a big deal for your uses.


Right. Which is the same dilemma between choosing a 3/8" and a 1/2" chuck. Most 12V are 3/8" (10mm) anyway and my original choice (GSR12V-300N) has a 3/8" chuck too.


HotRodx10 said:


> The gsr is a little lighter, a little quieter, has supposedly a little less vibration, and is less cost. What it's lacking is the hammer drilling feature.


Being with a hammer drill function, would the gsb be louder than the gsr even when in the drill/drive modes? But I don't it would be as loud as impact drivers are, right?

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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Also think about this.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

ron45 said:


> Also think about this.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTXRQlp_Aqw


I'm not really gonna be needing one of those, but thanks!

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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

I went ahead and bought the GSB12V-30. Do you guys have any recommended drill and screwdriver bit kits?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Do you guys have any recommended drill and screwdriver bit kits?


 In my experience, I haven't found there to be much difference in durability between the major brands. I saw a youtube video of a comparison test that was posted in another thread here, which showed the same, except the Harbor Freight "Warrior" bits to be somewhat worse for heavy use in an impact driver.


I would say for your purposes, just find the set (or sets) that get you what anticipate needing, and don't worry about the brand name.


I'll just draw your attention to some bit sets that you might find useful but may not readily find other places - security bit sets from Harbor Freight. They would be in addition to a standard bit set, since I think they're all specialty bits, except for a few, like the Torx security bits, which will work as standard Torx bits also, but I don't think there's any regular Phillips bits in those sets, though.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> In my experience, I haven't found there to be much difference in durability between the major brands. I saw a youtube video of a comparison test that was posted in another thread here, which showed the same, except the Harbor Freight "Warrior" bits to be somewhat worse for heavy use in an impact driver.
> 
> 
> I would say for your purposes, just find the set (or sets) that get you what anticipate needing, and don't worry about the brand name.
> ...



I see. I'm thinking between these two for the standard bit set:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAFTSMAN-...248730&hash=item2ae0d292bb:g:6ZYAAOSw18NeOvN7


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryobi-A989...868243?hash=item1a9c073713:g:7e4AAOSw-~Je~gig



I'm hoping those are fine choices.


As for the security bit sets in Harbor Freight, is it just me or are the pictures in that site not loading? Is the purpose of a security bit the same as the purpose of an iFix bit kit?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Either of those kits would get you a good start. When I look at it, the Craftsman kit is $23 cheaper, and it seems to only be lacking the hole saws. You can pick up more extensive hole saw kit as a standalone for under $10 if that's something you need, so if the prices are the same for you as what I'm seeing, I'd say out of those 2, go with Craftsman kit.


The pictures on the Harbor Freight site come up fine for me, but I have an account, which I think I was logged into, so you may have better luck just going to "Harborfreight.com" and searching "security bit set". The set you linked to looks like it has many of the same bits as the HF sets, and some really small ones that the HF set doesn't have. It also costs about 6 times as much as the HF 100 pc. set.


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## HandyAndyInNC (Jun 4, 2018)

Always purchase the highest quality tool you can find. A tool will never break while it is sitting in the case, locked away in a storage drawer. It will only break while it is in use.


What does it cost you to have to stop what you are doing only to go out and purchase a higher quality tool? You have now purchased the same type of tool twice. Only a complete fool will keep doing the same process over and over, but expecting different results. See paragraph one.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Either of those kits would get you a good start. When I look at it, the Craftsman kit is $23 cheaper, and it seems to only be lacking the hole saws. You can pick up more extensive hole saw kit as a standalone for under $10 if that's something you need, so if the prices are the same for you as what I'm seeing, I'd say out of those 2, go with Craftsman kit.
> 
> 
> The pictures on the Harbor Freight site come up fine for me, but I have an account, which I think I was logged into, so you may have better luck just going to "Harborfreight.com" and searching "security bit set". The set you linked to looks like it has many of the same bits as the HF sets, and some really small ones that the HF set doesn't have. It also costs about 6 times as much as the HF 100 pc. set.


Yes, we see the same price. I know you said don't look at the brand (at least for my use case) but I'm just curious is Craftsman a pretty decent brand?

Those iFix kits are really overpriced. And I don't think I'll be using them with my drill for such precision work anyway. I'll take a look at those HF kits again.




HandyAndyInNC said:


> Always purchase the highest quality tool you can find. A tool will never break while it is sitting in the case, locked away in a storage drawer. It will only break while it is in use.
> 
> 
> What does it cost you to have to stop what you are doing only to go out and purchase a higher quality tool? You have now purchased the same type of tool twice. Only a complete fool will keep doing the same process over and over, but expecting different results. See paragraph one.


What are you saying? Who bought the same tool twice? Where do you see that in this whole thread? Initially, I was asking for guidance on what tool is best fitted to MY use case. I stumbled upon the Dewalts compact drills but I never said I bough them. I then saw the Bosch GSB 12V-30 hammer drill and just bought it yesterday.

So I ask again, where are you getting your assumptions? Why would anyone buy the same tool twice and expecting different results each time?

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> I'm just curious is Craftsman a pretty decent brand?



It's a good brand; as good as the Ryobi, IMO. From your description of what you anticipate using it for, I don't think you'll have any problems with whatever screwdriver bits you get. Cheap drill bits are sometimes either soft and get dull quickly or are very brittle. Cheap masonry drill bits sometimes wear down or fall apart very quickly, so for those I think it pays to buy a good brand. My experience has been that, for the most part, it seems the better the tool brand, the better the bits they make.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> It's a good brand; as good as the Ryobi, IMO. From your description of what you anticipate using it for, I don't think you'll have any problems with whatever screwdriver bits you get. Cheap drill bits are sometimes either soft and get dull quickly or are very brittle. Cheap masonry drill bits sometimes wear down or fall apart very quickly, so for those I think it pays to buy a good brand. My experience has been that, for the most part, it seems the better the tool brand, the better the bits they make.


Yeah, first thing I'll be doing when I get these and my hammer drill would be to install two tv wall mounts to concrete inside the house. I hope the Craftsman masonry drill bits aren't too cheap for the job.

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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> I hope the Craftsman masonry drill bits aren't too cheap for the job.



I would expect them to be up to the task, but please let us know how they perform.


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## HandyAndyInNC (Jun 4, 2018)

Use Milwaukee or diamond tips bits. I never purchase any tool from a box store. They carry very low quality tools. 

I give things to think about. I never said that it was stated in any post. I hire a few people, and when they show up to work, and they have a cheap quality tool and it stops working before the end of the day. That stops productivity.

I really dislike people asking what they should do. Make a decision for yourself, and live with that decision.


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

HandyAndyInNC said:


> Use Milwaukee or diamond tips bits. I never purchase any tool from a box store. They carry very low quality tools.
> 
> I give things to think about. I never said that it was stated in any post. I hire a few people, and when they show up to work, and they have a cheap quality tool and it stops working before the end of the day. That stops productivity.
> 
> I really dislike people asking what they should do. Make a decision for yourself, and live with that decision.


If you dislike us kind of people then please just stop replying, you're not helping. I'm an IT person and not a contractor. I initially had zero ideas about this sort of thing and had to post my questions here. I did my research together with the help of people replying here.

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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi Kevin, just stopped in to the thread to see what you decided. Nothing wrong with your initial question, not sure why the reply from Andy.

We all had to start somewhere.

Best.
Bud


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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

Bud9051 said:


> Hi Kevin, just stopped in to the thread to see what you decided. Nothing wrong with your initial question, not sure why the reply from Andy.
> 
> We all had to start somewhere.
> 
> ...


Right. Same thing with other technology fields, you start from not knowing anything and build up from there. I guess you really can't get away from trolls in the Internet.

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## kevindd992002 (Sep 28, 2011)

I just got my Bosch GSB 12V-30 and a Makita drill/drive bit kit. It's working fine except for one thing. I'm not sure why but sometimes the bit just falls out on me. I'm trying it with the hex driver bits now and sometimes they stay in place no matter what I do (change mode to drill/driver/hammer, change torque setting, normal/reverse spin) but sometimes they just fall out on me. I just followed the manual when installing the bit which says to just go the direction of closing the chuck until I hear the clicks (4 clicks in total). It stays snug initially but like I said sometimes it falls out on me when I try different settings combination. I don't know exactly what makes it fall out as it appears to be random.


Can anyone help? Thanks.


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