# Counting Sheets for Finishers



## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

yogi_bear_79 said:


> So my finisher quotes by the sheet. They don't come out ahead of time, so I don't want any issues....Thoughts?


I think this sounds like a bad situation brewing. They don't come out ahead of time? No quote? Sounds a little un-professional...

They may price by the sheet, but a professional shouldn't leave it up to you to count. You should know what the price is before they ever show up to work. It's called a Pre-Bid walk through. And every job I ever done or been a-apart of has had one.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

*You will pay for the scrap*, that's the way it is. I would find someone interested enough to first do a site visit and do his own estimating so that he can give you a firm price up front. You are headed for trouble and a feud using your current approach.


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## yogi_bear_79 (Apr 14, 2011)

While normally I would agree, I know their work, quite professional. They did my brothers 15 years ago, and just did my neighbors. Not sure maybe my neighbors' experience was different. But he said when he called them, they asked how many sheets, got a quote and that was that. I am just trying to be fair to everyone involved. They deserve to be paid for their work, however, I'm not sure just telling them I bought 200 sheets is the way to do it.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

If you're sold on using them, then do your homework with your brother and neighbor. Be prepared to watch them and their sheet usage/waste. Like Bud said, you pay for the waste too, but you shouldn't pay for unneccessary waste just so they can drive their $$ haul up...


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

yogi_bear_79 said:


> While normally I would agree, I know their work, quite professional. They did my brothers 15 years ago, and just did my neighbors. Not sure maybe my neighbors' experience was different. But he said when he called them, they asked how many sheets, got a quote and that was that. I am just trying to be fair to everyone involved. They deserve to be paid for their work, however, I'm not sure just telling them I bought 200 sheets is the way to do it.


While I don't approve of their methods, they do go by how many total sheets were used. Not sure what the big deal is here. If it's a problem, call someone else and get another price. This would be like asking roofers to roof by the square, and then taking some money off for the cut offs and leftovers.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Who is going to scrap-out the place and who is paying for that haul? Check it out.


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## yogi_bear_79 (Apr 14, 2011)

We are not asking them to hang it. It is hung. We are asking them to tape & plaster it. Is it normal to still pay per sheet bought? I'm not arguing this, just want to make sure I give them a fair count.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

OH OK!

Well that's the first I've heard of that. I think that's weird. These other guys may do it that way but we have always paid for the square-foot that was finished plus extras.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

yogi_bear_79 said:


> We are not asking them to hang it. It is hung. We are asking them to tape & plaster it. Is it normal to still pay per sheet bought? I'm not arguing this, just want to make sure I give them a fair count.


That is how piece work is done. If you had guys hang it by the sheet it would be the same way. I think it jut saves them from making a wasted trip out. On small easy jobs, drywall is drywall. In theory, it should save you money by them not having to come out and figure up a price. I don't know anyone still doing it this way though.


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## yogi_bear_79 (Apr 14, 2011)

Small rural area, probably a 30-45 min drive one-way for them. A sq ft quote seems fair and accurate. I will probably have all three figures ready, total bought, actual sq ft of ceilings and walls. Total estimated used. Since were careful to limit butt joints to only those necessary, there is more waste. Maybe cause my neighbor had already gotten quotes, he was just happy to get a decent quote/commitment. More than likely I am guessing there will be a site visit. This isn't a small job 92 sheets of 5/8" and 203 sheets of 1/2" bought. 5 sheets of 5/8" leftover, still finishing up the 1/2" so can't say on that front yet. 

I know my neighbors job was slightly smaller, and he still dumped 1600lbs of drywall scrap! That's equal to 23 sheets of 1/2 +/-!!


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

yogi_bear_79 said:


> Small rural area, probably a 30-45 min drive one-way for them. A sq ft quote seems fair and accurate. I will probably have all three figures ready, total bought, actual sq ft of ceilings and walls. Total estimated used. Since were careful to limit butt joints to only those necessary, there is more waste. Maybe cause my neighbor had already gotten quotes, he was just happy to get a decent quote/commitment. More than likely I am guessing there will be a site visit. This isn't a small job 92 sheets of 5/8" and 203 sheets of 1/2" bought. 5 sheets of 5/8" leftover, still finishing up the 1/2" so can't say on that front yet.
> 
> I know my neighbors job was slightly smaller, and he still dumped 1600lbs of drywall scrap! That's equal to 23 sheets of 1/2 +/-!!


Considering that about 10% is a pretty conservative number for waste on most any construction job, and drywall often runs considerably higher, that 23 sheets doesn't sound bad on a possible total 230 sheets on your neighbor's job. Just guessing at his count, of course.

BTW, if you had hung your job using the "butt board" method, the finisher might have given you a break simply for the amount of work it would have saved him.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

Is the quote for 8' sheets or 12' sheets? What size did you buy.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

I would just measure the square footage that was boarded. If they want to know how many sheets then divide your square footage into 32 or whatever size sheets you ran. I wouldn't go automatically adding all your waste in on it, just makes the number larger:whistling2: So your scraps, or 10% waste would not be included in the price for finishing, rather than giving them the number of sheets bought. I would think. Some people have more waste than others when boarding.

I've never counted sheets before, always square feet in my experience with drywall, so that's where I would go with it. If they want a more exact method probably better for them to do it, and everyone can agree on a price beforehand.

Bit odd that they leave it up to you, I would have everyone agree on a price and get it in writing before work begins.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

chrisBC said:


> Bit odd that they leave it up to you, I would have everyone agree on a price and get it in writing before work begins.



Before a problem starts----have he come--look at the job and give you a firm price----

He may be a fine taper but he's a weak business man---Let him give you a price ---he needs to feed his family and you need to keep the numbers in line.

Only unhappiness will result if you don't have an agreed price before the work starts.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

What next? You call a painter and tell him how many sheets you bought and he bases his price to paint the place on how many total sheets you purchased?

I'm not seeing where the finisher is entitled to be paid for square footage that isn't there and it isn't any of his business how much waste there was. You bought the waste once and threw it in the dumpster why keep paying for the waste over and over in phantom charges? You paid the first guy because he had to handle all the waste and that's fair enough but it has to stop somewhere.


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## yogi_bear_79 (Apr 14, 2011)

That was more or less my thought on it as well. More than likely he will come out for a quote, I haven't talked to my neighbor about why he didn't for his. Like I said he had previous quotes, maybe he already had solid numbers. I'll know in a couple weeks, when I get the final pieces in after plumbing is all finished up. Just trying to stay ahead of the ball here.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Here's an example of why "boards hung" (not "boards bought") is generally used.

If you had a 12' wall..... that would be two boards hung. Or 48x2= 96 square feet to finish.

But if you had a 12'-6" wall..... that would be two boards, and an additional 6" hung on both the top and bottom runs. Or 48.5x2= 97 square feet to finish.

Now, let's assume the finisher is charging 1.00 a square foot (not at all realistic, but it keeps the math easy)

In the first case of just an even 12' wall he would get $96. And all he would do is basically fill and sand some screw holes. (We're not counting corners in either of these comparisons.)

In the second scenario he gets a dollar more, $97. Just one dollar. But he now has to tape and finish two butt joints ( 96 inches of taping) in addition to the screw holes he would have finished in the first example.

Of course this sounds great to the guy doing the paying...... But is it at all fair?

To put it another way, and bring it closer to home..... Would YOU like to be the finisher in this second setup? Would you look forward to taping and finishing an entire 48 inch butt joint for 50 cents?

This is why "boards hung" is the usual and accepted method of estimation used by finishers. Just straight square footage is not a true indication of the actual amount of work to be done.

Scrap? That is the hanger's responsibility. A good hanger who uses his head and has the experience to hang economically will have far less waste than a poorer hanger who may cost you money at both ends.


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## OhioHomeDoctor (Sep 27, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> OH OK!
> 
> Well that's the first I've heard of that. I think that's weird. These other guys may do it that way but we have always paid for the square-foot that was finished plus extras.


Square footage always, hang and finish. 

We pay based on installation not materials purchased. 

Buy a range finder and easily measure actual footages then pay based on that down to the penny.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

That may work for you, but it is not the industry standard. My previous employer bought drywall by the semi load. We stocked, hanged, and finished. We had up to 30 people hanging and finishing in our heyday. Board foot was the accepted standard by every drywall company in town.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Our area it's 'by the board' ---so much to hang---so much to tape---My favorite taper will not tape any work hung by amateurs.


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## hoops902 (Oct 5, 2011)

sixeightten said:


> That may work for you, but it is not the industry standard. My previous employer bought drywall by the semi load. We stocked, hanged, and finished. We had up to 30 people hanging and finishing in our heyday. Board foot was the accepted standard by every drywall company in town.


Yes but from a business perspective doesn't it make much more sense to go by board foot if you're also hanging the stuff? You can quote it out because you know exactly how you'll be hanging it.

If you were simply finishing, would you really be quoting the same price for a houseful of 8' sheets as you would a house full of 12' sheets?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

hoops902 said:


> Yes but from a business perspective doesn't it make much more sense to go by board foot if you're also hanging the stuff? You can quote it out because you know exactly how you'll be hanging it.
> 
> If you were simply finishing, would you really be quoting the same price for a houseful of 8' sheets as you would a house full of 12' sheets?


This is the crux of the matter. How cut up is it? How many joints do I have to contend with? How high is the ceiling? How many of the cuts are angles? Warehouse or multi windowed home? How many protrusions?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Here's a simple one.

How would you like to be paid for this one?

A gigantic flat walled warehouse 8' high................. OR........... the same warehouse with 83 windows and little 1 foot divider stub walls every six feet? BTW, the second warehouse is 7 " taller, and you can only get 48" boards.

Would you feel fairly treated if you hung (and/or finished) both for the same flat square foot rate? After all, the square footage is almost identical.

Remember, I'm not asking "How it's done around here"..... but rather, "How would YOU prefer to be paid".


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Obviously the taper needs to see the job---

Letting the customer see a square foot price is kind of foolish--Most prices are based on estimated time--materials--overhead --and profit.

If a customer remeasures a job upon completion and comes up with a different square foot number that the contract --a problem could occur.


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## jburchill (Oct 3, 2010)

Willie T said:


> Here's a simple one.
> 
> How would you like to be paid for this one?
> 
> ...



Nicely put Willie T!!

Get a quote from the guy cuz he can quote whatever he wants. If you don't like it. Call someone else. Or do it yourself.

Plus, some finishers don't like to finish other peoples work, cuz they don't if the sheets are hung correctly. So when if wall has a crack who do you blame?? the person who finished it.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I've always gotten a kick out of sq.ft. pricing.

All most contractors do is figure up what it will cost them to do it the way they always do it, then divide that number by the square footage of the current job.

Bingo: Square Foot Price.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

The finishers should be paid for every sheet hung. If you used all 200, pay them for 200. If you bought 200 and only used 185, pay them for 185. It's common practice. The hangers would expect pay for all 200 sheets even if they threw out 30 sheets worth of scrap (like door and window cutouts, etc.) When I used to hang new houses by the board, we always had a place we wrote the board count for the finishers so they knew what we hung (on a door jamb or somewhere they knew to look). There was often a (full) sheet or three left over and that was deducted from the count.


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## Arey85 (Jan 3, 2010)

8' ceilings? Nothing too out of the ordinary? Multiply your floor sq footage and multiply by 3.9 there's your approx drywall sq footage divide by 48 and there's the sheets he's pricing on. Forget any scrap that's not a full sheet. A closet or stairway with pieces takes much longer to finish than a full sheet on the wall.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

If you are a Gereral Contractor bidding a job then you will have a price per sq' that you know you can get the work done for.... but you may have to add for height, sloped ceilings, skylites, full window walls and so on but you will be able to get your bid in for the total job. 
If you are having a project bid out then the drywall company will give a bid for that project it may be per house or for the project.
If you are a homeowner piece bidding a job then you are seeing what happens. I think you need to measure how many feet of tape joints they will be taping and tell them you will only pay $.05 a ' of tape and call it good. We all know taping is the easy part:thumbup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

OOOOhhh, you be mean!


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Nobody pays or bids jobs by the foot of tape. And $.05 a foot? According to what you propose, a basic 12'x12'x8' tall room would have roughly 48' of flat joints (minus any doors and windows I assume you would deduct), 48' of ceiling angles. and 32' of wall angles. That's 128' of tape and you propose to pay $.05 a foot to tape, bed, skim, and sand for a grand total of $6.40??? That's absurd!! If finishing is as easy as you claim, even a DIY'er should be able to do it without a problem and wouldn't need to sub the work out......


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

BJ, I think it was a 'tongue-in-cheek' joke...... or at least I hope so.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

I certainly hope so, and in that case I misunderstood. Just seems so many people these days expect people to work for nothing with the bad economy and all...


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

BJ, Calm down the $.05 a foot was a joke along with taping is the easy part


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Sorry I didn't "read between the lines". Again there are so many out there these days who figure they can get something for nothing due to the economy. I peruse Craigslist from time to time looking for tools and such. I often glance at the "gigs" where people are looking to get work done. Seems like most are offering to pay very little for an honest day's work in any type of job whether it be hauling off a load of trash or some type of professional service. Again, I mistook the post as legit.....


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Understandable. The guy (real estate) I work for a lot lately honestly found some poor sucker to "help" me @ $8.00 an hour. It turned out bad, and he left after three days with all kinds of threats to do us all bodily damage, and a promise to come back and steal everything in the houses.... not to mention saying he would show up at our church and tell everyone what a dog the boss was.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

The original post by Yogi Bear was that he did not want to pay the finishers for the 200 sheets that he bought to hang the house. Then his brother did a count and came up with more sheets to finish then he had on the wall I guess so he is trying to have the finsh work done but has no idea what he should pay even though he knows how many sheets he bought.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

bjbatlanta said:


> Sorry I didn't "read between the lines". Again there are so many out there these days who figure they can get something for nothing due to the economy. I peruse Craigslist from time to time looking for tools and such. I often glance at the "gigs" where people are looking to get work done. Seems like most are offering to pay very little for an honest day's work in any type of job whether it be hauling off a load of trash or some type of professional service. Again, I mistook the post as legit.....


 
I have to say I check out those adds, mostly for entertainment value. Some are just over the top. I always wonder what ends up happening-someone must respond to those adds. It is hard to believe that the outcome would be a pretty.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

havalife said:


> The original post by Yogi Bear was that he did not want to pay the finishers for the 200 sheets that he bought to hang the house. Then his brother did a count and came up with more sheets to finish then he had on the wall I guess so he is trying to have the finsh work done but has no idea what he should pay even though he knows how many sheets he bought.


You will never be accurate trying to count the sheets already on a wall. You have to take the number bought, and subtract the number left over or add the extra purchased. The brother may have had good intentions, but he had it all wrong.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

I agree Willie T, I have never tried to piece drywall after the job has started so this is all new to me


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## yogi_bear_79 (Apr 14, 2011)

I apologize, I never suspected that the question would be troublesome.

Full Blown Explanation:

I used a CAD drawing of the house and several on-line drywall calculators to determine how many sheets I needed. My brother, the trained, Union carpenter did a walk around took his own measurements, accounted for waste and came up with a much higher number. We went with his numbers, and thus far they have been fairly accurate. Following his lead, we have hung the drywall correctly, minimizing unnecessary butt joints and piece work. We have worked diligently on layout to produce the least amount of seams, cuts, and waste practical.

At this point I am down to a few small sections to do, around the garage doors, and some of the wet walls, that are still awaiting some plumbing.

We have chosen plasterboard, and we have the finishers chosen. I have selected them based on their reputation, and the quality of work I have seen in two houses. My research says they are priced fairly. My confusion set in when they quoted my neighbor over the phone house unseen. This may be because he had previous quotes and knew from those quotes what to tell them. At any rate, since my brother led the drywall install at my neighbors house, and the finishers had no issue with that install, I don't feel I will have an issue either. 

My original question was, do I simply say I "installed" 200 sheets. Or should I account for waste. It seems trivial to account for waste at this point. And I am not trying to get over on the finishers. So at this point if asked, I will point out how many sheets we installed (amount purchased - amount leftover). Or provide square footage of the rooms. In all actuality , I expect they will come to the house and give a quote, so the original post will be moot. We will probably know next week, as I hope to be done with the drywall at that time. However, I wanted to be prepared in the event they didn't need to come out ahead of time.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

Ok :thumbsup: That clears it up:no:


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