# Painting Kitchen Cabinets (Gone Wrong)



## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Well, before anyone else says it, "you should have used better paint." Just not many Behr fans here, sorry. There are so many better products for cabinets. SW's ProClassic, PPG's Breakthrough, Benjamin Moore's Advance. These paints have "LEVELERS" in them that allow the paint to flow leaving a glass-like finish no matter how the paint is applied.

All you can do now is some very aggressive sanding or totally strip the paint off with a chemical stripper. Sanding is unlikely to remove the orange peel unless you sand down to bare wood which is very hard to do without doing some damage. Stripping would be a great option but it's a messy process. I don't know what else to tell you. THere's no "easy fix" for what's been done.

Post a pic if possible.


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Gymschu,

Wow, I really messed this up. Thanks for the info. I can't leave the cabinets as is. What type of chemical striper do you recommend? What is the process for that? Why is it messy? 

What paint would you recommend for the my cabinets? What application process process? (Rolling, Brush or the sprayer I have?)

Attached are some photos. They don't truly do them justice but should get the issue across.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm not a paint pro, but I would guess there was a problem with the sprayer. (It's always a good idea to do some test sprays before painting the target object.)

Did it look like that as you sprayed it, or did it look OK at first and then it orange peeled when it dried?
.
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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

I tested the sprayer out on my whole garage and it looked great. So I moved forward with this project. At first I did have some issues with the sprayer spitting. After adjusting the speed it was spraying much better. I noticed the orange peel look shortly after spraying it.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Orange peel is usually caused by the paint being too thick. At this point all you can do is to either sand the orange peel smooth or strip and start over. For what it's worth, I've seen a lot worse looking cabinet paint jobs ..... some by 'pros'


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Thanks. the thickness of the paint could be the issue. It didn’t seem really thick while mixing but I am not a professional painter. Therefore I don’t know if a paint is too think or not.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Its not the paint, its the trucoat. That thing is garbage. I bought one. They dont even take real spray tips. While I hate Behr, I had a job where I sprayed their alkyd product on all the trim in a giant house, and it looked great. I hate to admit it, but it is a good product. I would use it more, if I didnt have to deal with Home Depot's paint mixers.

You need an real airless, and a 410 tip, maybe even a 309. This is a waterborne alkyd product, and they are tricky to work with. Even thin coats will orange peel if not sprayed perfectly. There cannot be ANY humidity, for one thing. You need to spray VERY thin coats, and its a good idea to thin it 5% with distilled water, to help the paint flow. If its a vertical surface, spray a tack coat, wait till it starts to set up, about 10 minutes or so, then spray another very thin coat. Hold the gun about 10 inches away. ITs hard to find that exact window where its sprayed heavy enough to coalexce, but thin enough to not run. And dont do more than one coat a day.

BTW, you'll get the same results with advance or proclassic if not sprayed properly. Like I said, I hate to admit it, but this product is just about as good as advance or pro classic.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Stripeeze is a good caustic paint stripper, but very hard to find these days. I get mine at my local hardware store. The citrus based stripper products work, but they are slow and don't always get all the paint off down to the bare wood. Perhaps a good local paint store can guide you to one that will work on "fresh" paint.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

did you ask the behr paint expert at Home Depot?


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Woodco,

Sounds like I went for an advanced job when I needed a beginner job. All that information is great but it would seem that doing that is above my skill level. Any other suggestions on the paint or what to do from this point?


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

I cant help you there, but I will say that trucoat CANNOT be used on cabinetry, even with an easier to spray product. If you get an airless, and a proper tip, you might look into Scuff-x from Benjamin moore. Its easier to work with, as it acts more like a regular latex. Is quite a bit pricier than the Behr Alkyd though.


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

I will have to look into renting a better sprayer. I ll have to prep the other doors first and figure out what to do with the already painted ones. Thanks.


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

What about brushing and/or rolling the paint on the cabinets?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I often use a brush when repainting cabinets that are in place. Using the right paint [thinned if needed] along with the right brush and technique will give good results. It won't look sprayed but brush marks can be minimized thru sanding between coats and applying the paint correctly.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

woodco said:


> Its not the paint, its the trucoat. That thing is garbage. I bought one. They dont even take real spray tips. While I hate Behr, I had a job where I sprayed their alkyd product on all the trim in a giant house, and it looked great. I hate to admit it, but it is a good product. I would use it more, if I didnt have to deal with Home Depot's paint mixers.
> 
> You need an real airless, and a 410 tip, maybe even a 309. This is a waterborne alkyd product, and they are tricky to work with. Even thin coats will orange peel if not sprayed perfectly. There cannot be ANY humidity, for one thing. You need to spray VERY thin coats, and its a good idea to thin it 5% with distilled water, to help the paint flow. If its a vertical surface, spray a tack coat, wait till it starts to set up, about 10 minutes or so, then spray another very thin coat. Hold the gun about 10 inches away. ITs hard to find that exact window where its sprayed heavy enough to coalexce, but thin enough to not run. And dont do more than one coat a day.
> 
> BTW, you'll get the same results with advance or proclassic if not sprayed properly. Like I said, I hate to admit it, but this product is just about as good as advance or pro classic.



I would guess its the sprayer too, no good finish! The 'ultra' model does take standard RACX FFLP tips btw, these can produce a pretty good finish.
https://www.portlandcompressor.com/...-cordless-airless-handheld-paint-sprayer.aspx


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Thank you to all who replied above. I have been given a ton of great information. Now I have to decide what I am going to do going forward. I am still really confused as to where things went wrong. I thought I prepped everything correctly. It seems to be either there paint or the sprayer. Down side is I am already 20 plus man hours into a this project that needs to be done by October 21st. I am going to stop my local Sherwin Williams store again and see if I can talk to someone who knows what they are talking about this time and possible get the correct supplies from them as appose to a box store. What do you think?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While not all paint stores are the same, the odds are you'll get a lot better advice at a real paint store as opposed to a paint dept. Not only is the help usually better trained they can also ask whatever painter is in the store for his take on the issue.


As long as you buy their better lines you'll also find better coatings.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Rugger27 said:


> Thank you to all who replied above. I have been given a ton of great information. Now I have to decide what I am going to do going forward. I am still really confused as to where things went wrong. I thought I prepped everything correctly. It seems to be either there paint or the sprayer. Down side is I am already 20 plus man hours into a this project that needs to be done by October 21st. I am going to stop my local Sherwin Williams store again and see if I can talk to someone who knows what they are talking about this time and possible get the correct supplies from them as appose to a box store. What do you think?


If you can, bring one of your cabinet doors with you, so they can see exactly what you've got. A photo is good, but not as good as seeing the real thing.
.
.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Many on here don't like ProClassic from SW, but I get good results with it and I'm mainly a brush and roll type guy. I won't go so far to say the end result looks like it was sprayed on, but, you really have to look close to see any of the orange peel especially when using a microfiber roller and a quality brush. I've used PC ever since it came out and I've had no callbacks on it other than to touch it up every couple years. 

It can be tricky to use. It generally takes at least 3 very thin coats, but, if you lay the doors flat you can achieve a near glass-like appearance as it levels out and you will also avoid any runs.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

mark sr said:


> While not all paint stores are the same, the odds are you'll get a lot better advice at a real paint store as opposed to a paint dept. Not only is the help usually better trained they can also ask whatever painter is in the store for his take on the issue.
> 
> 
> As long as you buy their better lines you'll also find better coatings.


Say whaaaa?:devil3:


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

don't they have behr paint expert at Home Depot anymore? The behr commercials say they do.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I built my office desk on the cheap. Basically it's 2 plywood boxes with drawers and 1 door with a finished L shaped plywood top. The primer was applied with a mini/whizz roller and was top coated with 2 coats of ProClassic waterborne brushed on. They need to be repainted [it's been 10-15 yrs] but you really have to look close to see any brush marks.


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## RRH (Nov 24, 2016)

Your sprayer is good for certain jobs but not at all for cabinets. That is your main problem.

You need something that takes a FF or Fine Finish tip.

But even then best to have some experience.

I also like SW Pro Classic. At least do yourself a favor and try a test with brushing it on. And see what you think.

You may end up with a better job than if you have the right sprayer but dont have the experiance to do a good spray job.


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Here is the skinny. I went to my local Sherwin Williams store today. They said it was the sprayer. The kind I have spits as appossed to atomizing. The guy said Ill have to sand down to the primer. Then recoat the top layer. He said I could roll it and see how it looks or I could spray it and roll it to smooth it out. Which do you think is the better route? He also said to roll in one direction only to avoid the orange peel aspect. I ended up buying the Sherwin Williams alkyd paint and a bonding primer for the recoat and rest of the job. I bought the rollers he suggested as well. They are smaller 4 inch rollers. He said to lay everything on thin. Let hope this helps the effort. Thanks again to all for the responses.


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## Rugger27 (Oct 11, 2018)

Below is a picture of the progress. It is looking a lot better now. Downside is I am now in the process of stripping the cabinet doors that where sprayed. I’ll post more stuff and I get it done. Thanks again for all the help.


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## Trekker (Jun 26, 2013)

*Sherwin Williams KEM Aqua Plus White*

The absolute best "paint" that I've used for cabinets and furniture is Sherwin Williams KEM Aqua Plus White used over KEM Aqua Plus Surfacer. You can purchase it from Sherwin Williams Commercial stores.

Please note that this product is spray only; it's too thin and fast drying for brushing or rolling. It's simply terrific when used with an HVLP system. You can sand it after a half hour and then spray the next coat. It dries fast enough that it's straightforward to spray one side of your cabinet doors laying flat to reduce the possibility of runs, let them dry for twenty minutes or so (usually not much longer than it takes to get back to your first door after spraying many), flip them over and spray the other side.

On top of all that, it also meets Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturers Association (KCMA) requirements.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

Rugger27 said:


> Below is a picture of the progress. It is looking a lot better now. Downside is I am now in the process of stripping the cabinet doors that where sprayed. I’ll post more stuff and I get it done. Thanks again for all the help.


Hey man, I am right there with you. I have dealing with the same things. Tried to become a DIY person and this was tough. I think of myself as a smart person/ education but this cabinet job has been a B!T!!. I first bought a tacklife spray gun on amazon had amazing reviews. it sprayed zinsser primer. When I bought Benjamin moore advance Satin because it seemed to be the top thing recommended for cabinets it would not spray. Then I bought a Graco x 7 spraye . It cost $400 new but got a great deal on facebook so I thought what the heck. It sprayed benjamin moore no problem but sometimes i get little bubbles here and there. I am just not satisfied with the way it looks. In the shade cabinets look good but when you get up close I feel like there are scratches or little spots noticeable in light. I'm trying to decide if I should use another paint. I bought a sander yesterday (powder). This seems to be smoothing things out but I think I need to get some type of filler to fill some holes too.

edit: BTW I tried painting benjamin moore. I must have a weird batch or something. This stuff is drying within minutes and leaving brush lines while I am in the middle of painting. I had to sand it down all over again. At this point I'm just sticking with my airless sprayer


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## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

r3pnit said:


> Hey man, I am right there with you. I have dealing with the same things. Tried to become a DIY person and this was tough. I think of myself as a smart person/ education but this cabinet job has been a B!T!!. I first bought a tacklife spray gun on amazon had amazing reviews. it sprayed zinsser primer. When I bought Benjamin moore advance Satin because it seemed to be the top thing recommended for cabinets it would not spray. Then I bought a Graco x 7 spraye . It cost $400 new but got a great deal on facebook so I thought what the heck. It sprayed benjamin moore no problem but sometimes i get little bubbles here and there. I am just not satisfied with the way it looks. In the shade cabinets look good but when you get up close I feel like there are scratches or little spots noticeable in light. I'm trying to decide if I should use another paint. I bought a sander yesterday (powder). This seems to be smoothing things out but I think I need to get some type of filler to fill some holes too.
> 
> edit: BTW I tried painting benjamin moore. I must have a weird batch or something. This stuff is drying within minutes and leaving brush lines while I am in the middle of painting. I had to sand it down all over again. At this point I'm just sticking with my airless sprayer



Ever think there is a reason experienced painters charge $40-60/hour? Nothing wrong with advance just your technique with a brush, not enough material loaded on your brush, working too slow, over brushing, etc..


BTW Cheap tools produce cheap results and no exception there with the homedepot model sprayers, maybe you can get ok results if you can swap the tip and guard for a RACX (blue) guard and 310 FFLP (green) Tip.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Ever think there is a reason experienced painters charge $40-60/hour? Nothing wrong with advance just your technique with a brush, not enough material loaded on your brush, working too slow, over brushing, etc..
> 
> 
> BTW Cheap tools produce cheap results and no exception there with the homedepot model sprayers, maybe you can get ok results if you can swap the tip and guard for a RACX (blue) guard and 310 FFLP (green) Tip.


I have exactly that. Racx and 310 FFLP. It honestly looks good but I think I didn't sand down well enough I was pressing hard and trying different things. I just bought a orbital sander and I did a test and this piece looks amazing. Bad thing is I may have to go back and sand off all the paint. should I use a 120 sand grit to sand off all the paint?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

120 isn't really coarse enough to strip off the paint although it is the grit you'd want to use before applying primer.


What makes you think you need to sand off ALL the paint? You should be able to sand it smooth, probably with 120.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

mark sr said:


> 120 isn't really coarse enough to strip off the paint although it is the grit you'd want to use before applying primer.
> 
> 
> What makes you think you need to sand off ALL the paint? You should be able to sand it smooth, probably with 120.


ok. I will try that. yea I shouldnt have to sand it all off. I will do 120-150, then 220, then 400 and then paint over it and then do 400 and paint final coat. Does that sound about right? I love this new orbital sander I got. It made be realize how bad my sanding job was.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've never seen any reason to use a grit finer than 220 when painting wood. The finer grits are only needed when spraying metal.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

You guys I just got the best finish with sanding with an orbital sander I have gotten . I sprayed Benjamin Moore ice and with thinning it slightly with water . This is the best finish I have gotten . However I can see some of the sand line little squiggly lines after a coat . Will this go away with another coat of paint ? If not should I sand them and reprime then and then paint over it ? I don’t mind repriiming them Because some of the ones I sanded took some small areas of paint and primer off of them . I only painted the small cabinets and have not touched my bigger cabinets that will be the face of my kitchen .


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Paint will usually fill in minor sanding scratches although a lot depends on how thick/thin the paint is. It's always a good idea to prime any bare wood. You don't need to prime it all - spot priming the bare areas is sufficient.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

mark sr said:


> Paint will usually fill in minor sanding scratches although a lot depends on how thick/thin the paint is. It's always a good idea to prime any bare wood. You don't need to prime it all - spot priming the bare areas is sufficient.


Ok Ill do another coat and see if it covers the lines. Should I sand with 400 before using another coat? I'm just worried that may put more lines.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

IMO 400 grit is overkill plus sandpaper that fine won't have much effect on the existing paint - it will 'polish' more than sand.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

If you're using Advance, 400 is a good idea if you are sanding before a final coat. That stuff goes on thin as heck. I've seen 320 swirl marks show when underneath the final coat.

For regular latex, you dont need anywhere near that fine though.


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## r3pnit (Oct 4, 2018)

mark sr said:


> IMO 400 grit is overkill plus sandpaper that fine won't have much effect on the existing paint - it will 'polish' more than sand.





woodco said:


> If you're using Advance, 400 is a good idea if you are sanding before a final coat. That stuff goes on thin as heck. I've seen 320 swirl marks show when underneath the final coat.
> 
> For regular latex, you dont need anywhere near that fine though.


 I think I will do 400 hand sand over it and spray a final coat coat. Hopefully Benjamin moore advance final coat wont show the scratches through it. I rather not put a heavy coat and mess it up.


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