# Antique refrigerator, ground or GFCI?



## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

I figured I'd run this up the flag pole and see what kind of opinions I get. One of my hobbies is restoring 1930s refrigerators to like new. Before we had a baby on the way I wasn't concerned but now I figure I should either ground them or run them on a GFCI but can't make up my mind which. I figure using a GFCI keeps the cord looking original but may cause headaches.

The specific units I work on are GE Monitor tops and they consume in the neighborhood of 140-160W when running. All new wiring of course except for the motor windings.

A video of some clips of my first restoration.
http://youtu.be/y2LWjT3e7uQ


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

CJ.... I have no idea of the historic value of refers.... but those run on 140-160 W.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> CJ.... I have no idea of the historic value of refers.... but those run on 140-160 W.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Yessir.

To be specific a good running CK unit will consume as little as 20kwh per month assuming you don't open the door too much.

They make modern units look like pigs.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

cj133 said:


> Yessir.
> 
> To be specific a good running CK unit will consume as little as 20kwh per month assuming you don't open the door too much.
> 
> ...


CJ... Before my wife served dinner,I was honestly going to edit my post and ask "Why the he11 did I buy a modern refrigerator."



So,,, what is your market, collectors or a retro design residential application... or decoration in a commercial bar/grill.



Just curious... you don't want my advice... I don't know anything worthwhile or knowledgeable in this area.



Best


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> CJ... Before my wife served dinner,I was honestly going to edit my post and ask "Why the he11 did I buy a modern refrigerator."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't know if I have a market, at least not yet.  I started with one simply because I wanted it, and then next thing I knew I had 3 of them to restore. The first is almost done and will be put into normal use soon. Once the second and third ones are done I have no idea where they are going, I might end up selling one.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Do ya paint them up and make them fully functional...... maybe a web-site or internetr type marketing.... they might end up in a very expensive high end home establishing a 30's decor entertainment room....

Just an idea....


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Do ya paint them up and make them fully functional...... maybe a web-site or internetr type marketing.... they might end up in a very expensive high end home establishing a 30's decor entertainment room....
> 
> Just an idea....



There are a few guys I know out there doing just that, but it's not for me really. I just don't have the time. A fully restored unit usually runs $3500-4500. 

So far, my first one is cleaned and painted to look like new with all original racks that I had replated. The unit is also completely functional just as it was in 1933 including running methyl formate as the refrigerant, the only modification being conversion from a float valve to a capillary tube due to damaged valve seat. I expect the next two to come out better as I've learned a few things along the way. One of my biggest mistakes was using brown primer for a white top coat, that was a horrible horrible idea.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Other members.... look at this man's work on his reposted video.... you will have to appreciate his quality/expertise.

(Admittedley, his question seemed strange, but not when ya see his work.)


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> I figured I'd run this up the flag pole and see what kind of opinions I get.


Well... I'm about to run myself up the flag pole with this comment but what the heck:

Grounds are for sissies and electricians. One of the first things I do with a ground prong is break it off.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Bob Sanders said:


> Well... I'm about to run myself up the flag pole with this comment but what the heck:
> 
> Grounds are for sissies and electricians. One of the first things I do with a ground prong is break it off.


Is this the same Bob Sanders that was just critisizing some for discouraging a DIYer and not answering an OP's question in a serious and straightforward manner in the very recent thread that was closed an hour ago....

Just Curious...

Although I do appreciate the humor,,, in most all instances.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Is this the same Bob Sanders that was just critisizing some for discouraging a DIYer and not answering an OP's question in a serious and straightforward manner in the very recent thread that was closed an hour ago....
> 
> Just Curious...
> 
> Although I do appreciate the humor,,, in most all instances.


Yeah... I'm kinda having fun with this one. I have a buddy who's an electrician and LOVE breaking ground prongs off right in front of him.... and of course like a ritual we spend the next hour or 2 debating the issue.


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## Seattle2k (Mar 26, 2012)

Don't worry, MTN, evolution will take care of this one ^^ :laughing:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Seattle2k said:


> Don't worry, MTN, evolution will take care of this one ^^ :laughing:


I'm actually still laughing and have to blow my nose.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbsup:



EDIT: Gotta remember that one.... Best


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Not impressed with Mr Sanders at this point.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

CJ--Great thread and superb work---

Sadly ,we get an occasional 'comedian' --

A licensed electrician will look in soon---I think a grounded cord would be the safest modification---and easily reversed if someone wants the unit to be 100% authentic---


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> Not impressed with Mr Sanders at this point.


Why? Because I won't conform?
Look... grounding has to be one of the biggest 1/2 baked, unthought through wastes of money that the human race has ever come up with. It's hard to say whether is ACTUALLY increases safety at all... or does the opposite... puts us in further danger.

1/2 the products in my house come with a ground wire, the other 1/2 don't. Now what happens if "_the neutral breaks_" on a product that doesn't have a ground? Not withstanding, for the products which don't have grounds, they have wasted all the money you sink into running that extra conductor throughout your house. Wanna laugh? I've seen products with entire plastic cases have ground wires and ones with entire metal cases not.

If you open your average breaker panel you will see a whole crap load of *BARE*, *UNINSULATED* conductor running all over the place. Now if having a bare conductor running all over isn't dumb enough for you Then consider the neutral, which is the same thing..... IS INSULATED

Now this isn't to say that I don't support some level of increased safety. I do believe in GFCI.... but ground wires.... what a joke on us.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

oh'mike said:


> and easily reversed if someone wants the unit to be 100% authentic---


There's the punch line right there. Grounding is (supposed to be) about safety. Either it's there or it isn't, but as a measure of safety it shouldn't be there only when convenient. Yet it seems to be. Why is that?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Mister Sanders--please refrain from posting in this thread---

on older metal bodied tools and appliances---a loose power wire could touch the chassis of the unit --without a proper ground ,the unit can become electrified.

If the neutral is used as a chassis ground, common with electric stoves,and there is a wiring problem in the house==the chassis can become electrified---

Use a grounded cord----


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

oh'mike said:


> Mister Sanders--please refrain from posting in this thread---
> 
> on older metal bodied tools and appliances---a loose power wire could touch the chassis of the unit --without a proper ground ,the unit can become electrified.
> 
> ...


The OP is asking for opinions on which idea is safer. I'm merely stating mine. I fully recognize my opinion to be a minority, but it shouldn't be shut out simply because others may disagree with it.

What does adding a ground wire when there originally wasn't one do to the manufacturers approval of a product?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

He asked for a way to make the product safer---Yes,a gfci outlet is safe--but the unit is movable---so someday it might be plugged into a non protected outlet---

This site strives to offer the most sound practices---not cutting off safety devices--that is why I asked you to stay off this thread--


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

oh'mike said:


> He asked for a way to make the product safer---Yes,a gfci outlet is safe--but the unit is movable---so someday it might be plugged into a non protected outlet---
> 
> This site strives to offer the most sound practices---not cutting off safety devices--that is why I asked you to stay off this thread--


But that's the point here. No one is talking about "cutting off" a safety device. We're talking about adding one to make it safer. Ground wires are false safety and in some cases, dangerous. What happens on a grounded product if the cord frays and the hot is exposed and I touch it with my left hand while my right hand is touching the side of the fridge? Bare that in mind while we're suggesting the OP (illegally?) modify an already approved product.

GFCI offers better protection without modification to the product.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> But that's the point here. No one is talking about "cutting off" a safety device. We're talking about adding one to make it safer. Ground wires are false safety and in some cases, dangerous. What happens on a grounded product if the cord frays and the hot is exposed and I touch it with my left hand while my right hand is touching the side of the fridge? Bare that in mind while we're suggesting the OP (illegally?) modify an already approved product.
> 
> GFCI offers better protection without modification to the product.



So in the end it sounds like you prefer the GFCI route rather than grounding? Had you said that without telling others you often break ground prongs off I think this would have gone in a different direction. Keep in mind others will read this besides my self and I feel telling DIYrs to remove grounds is a very bad idea.

In regards to grounds being bare and neutrals being insulated, neutrals on single phase circuits are current carrying conductors just like the hots are while grounds are not expected to be except when something fails. They are simply a backup. If you measure the voltage difference between the neutral and ground at an appliance consuming a fair amount of current you will notice they are not the same. I wouldn't be surprised if you see a good 2 to 5 volt difference especially over a decent length, say 25 - 50 feet. If for some reason the chassis becomes energized it's best it just sinks that current to ground or under extreme conditions trips the circuit interrupter.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> Keep in mind others will read this besides my self and I feel telling DIYrs to remove grounds is a very bad idea.


Is it?
Go back to my previous example above where I'm touching the hot and the chassis at the same time and tell me that's safer.
This world has been tuned into believing grounds automatically make it "safe". It's a false statement and belief. That's what makes grounding so dangerous. Depending on the circumstance a ground can kill me just as easily as it can save, yet removing ground prongs is always considered a "bad idea".




> If for some reason the chassis becomes energized it's best it just sinks that current to ground or under extreme conditions trips the circuit interrupter.


That idea flies only if you're not between the hot and the chassis. What if you are?

Do ground wires increase safety? Sure they do, but they also increase the level of danger as well. Which one increases more is debatable, but is it *really* a "safety feature" if it can kill just as easily in certain circumstances? Are people made aware of the increased dangers or is that queitly swept under the rug while they push the safety aspect of it.

Food for thought.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> Is it?
> Go back to my previous example above where I'm touching the hot and the chassis at the same time and tell me that's safer.
> This world has been tuned into believing grounds automatically make it "safe". It's a false statement and belief. That's what makes grounding so dangerous. Depending on the circumstance a ground can kill me just as easily as it can save, yet removing ground prongs is always considered a "bad idea".
> 
> ...



Fair enough.
Give me an example of why you would be between the grounded chassis and the hot, where is the hot? Frayed wires do not count as that is the users responsibility to maintain cords. Internal components that the user cannot see which may be leaking to the chassis would seem far more common to me.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> Frayed wires do not count as that is the users responsibility to maintain cords.


LOL!

You can't discount something just because it's not supposed to be. You can't sit down with electricity and have a conversation about the rule book and discuss what's allowed and what is not. It just doesn't work that way. Maybe you didn't know the fray was there. Maybe your child touches it because they see something shiny beneath that black coating.

It's a real live example and it happens. Had a ground not been there then a shock would not have been received and possibly killed some one.

Do ground wires _automatically_ make things "safe"?
No.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> LOL!
> 
> You can't discount something just because it's not supposed to be. You can't sit down with electricity and have a conversation about the rule book and discuss what's allowed and what is not. It just doesn't work that way. Maybe you didn't know the fray was there. Maybe your child touches it because they see something shiny beneath that black coating.
> 
> ...



That frayed wire due to someone being incompetent is just as dangerous to someone standing on concrete or dirt. You can't protect people from themselves but you can protect them from defective appliances.

Would a GFCI be safer under those conditions I'd say yes however I do have concerns about it tripping under normal use. I had hoped some other members would have experience with motors and GFCIs as I do not.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> That frayed wire due to someone being incompetent is just as dangerous to someone standing on concrete or dirt.


 Frayed wires are not about being incompetent. They are a natural fact of life and quite often discovered as they zap you.



> You can't protect people from themselves


Sure you can... GFCI





> Would a GFCI be safer under those conditions I'd say yes however I do have concerns about it tripping under normal use.


Well, that's the question right there... are we more concerned with safety.... or a convenience through a false safety, or a 1/2 safety.

You asked for my opinion and you mentioned your child's safety. Is there really any decision here as to which method is safer? While GFCI is not fool-proof, it's a heck of a lot safer than a ground wire... which can easily kill under certain circumstances.

I have no respect for ground wires. It's a 1/2 baked solution, is not universal and mandatory throughout with every appliance and can be a hazard.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Fair enough.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I would ground it with 3 wires especially if you want to sell them for liability reasons, GFIs are meant for moisture safety primarily not as a substitute for traditional grounding. I doubt you want to use your child as a test subject/guinea pig over the science of how they work or don't.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

yuri said:


> I would ground it with 3 wires especially if you want to sell them for liability reasons, GFIs are meant for moisture safety primarily not as a substitute for traditional grounding. I doubt you want to use your child as a test subject/guinea pig over the science of how they work or don't.


Hi Yuri, thanks for responding.
Actually, I believe it is within NEC to substitute a GFCI for a ground, specifically if you are installing an outlet that does not have a ground run to it.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

As long as it is legal or meets the code I am OK with it. If you sell it then I imagine most people will have proper 3 prong outlets. If you sell it as 2 prong and something happens then I doubt you can afford lawyers and Professional witnesses to defend you in court. As far as I know we live in a very litigious world.

I worked with GFIs in a Convention centre and we had hordes of problems with them tripping with computers due to harmonics etc. We had sunken utility boxes in the floor for the exhibitors and there was a water hookup there and power and cable etc etc. They have their place but I would prefer 3 prong.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

CJ...... My subjective opinion /vote would be to run the standard ground... and tradeoff the "authentic restoration value" slightly.

1) One, I think it's hardley noticeable and
2) As Mike suggests, if you were to market/sell it, I imagine it would be easy to swap out to original version, if that's what the market wanted.

As far as safety, *and just to be honest*, Bob Sanders surprized me with some good points/arguments.....I had often considered the issue... my son even brought it up as I was teaching him electrical... although I came to a different subjective evaluation of the safety tradeoffs.

However, I think in regard to safety, we'd all agree that a GFI and 3 wire conventional ground offers a good approach, plus it is offers a certain level of liability protection in that it is standard/approved application.

Bottom line..... NICE WORK... you have not told us if that is a hobby or are you a refrigeration HVAC or appliance pro.

Just curious.... (in case I write a book):laughing:


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> CJ...... My subjective opinion /vote would be to run the standard ground... and tradeoff the "authentic restoration value" slightly.
> 
> 1) One, I think it's hardley noticeable and
> 2) As Mike suggests, if you were to market/sell it, I imagine it would be easy to swap out to original version, if that's what the market wanted.
> ...



Ah, sorry I missed that.
I am an electronic technician that ended up being interested in refrigeration.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Where the heck do you find Methyl Formate? I did not even know that stuff existed back then. Ammonia was used but discontinued after a few leaks and Sulphur Dioxide too.

Apparently that stuff is very toxic and dangerous.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/107313.html


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

yuri said:


> Where the heck do you find Methyl Formate? I did not even know that stuff existed back then. Ammonia was used but discontinued after a few leaks and Sulphur Dioxide too.
> 
> Apparently that stuff is very toxic and dangerous.
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/107313.html


Ammonia was never used in household refrigeration to my knowledge, only commercial which it still is to this day. SO2 was used up into the 1940s and while I have not worked on those yet I know a few guys that do. I'd say there is a good chance I'll get an SO2 machine at one point even though I know the stuff is a beast.

There are a few sources for methyl formate and as far as being "very toxic and dangerous" it's more comparable to acetone. In fact I would consider a few types of spray paint more harmful to breath. Methyl formate is also 100% environmentally safe with zero ozone depletion and almost zero global warming potential. :thumbsup:

The part I find cool is the fact methyl formate comes in glass bottles and you pour it in via a funnel.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Kinda like R-11 was ( discontinued now ). 

When I was in tradeschool one guy brought in some old cooler, small unit and another guy thought hey lets take this old compressor out. Cut thru the steel line and Voila, pure ammonia came flying out. Had to evacuate the shop for an hour. So there were small coolers with ammonia. Pure ammonia is NASTY and can seriously burn you and your eyes and lungs. I stayed out of that end of refrigeration for that reason.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

I would vote on your poll, but you don't have the option of doing both the gfi and ground. Bring it up to modern codes. 

You wouldn't think twice about bringing your new one home on your wife's lap as they did in the '30's would you?


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

47_47 said:


> I would vote on your poll, but you don't have the option of doing both the gfi and ground. Bring it up to modern codes.
> 
> You wouldn't think twice about bringing your new one home on your wife's lap as they did in the '30's would you?



I'm sorry, I've never seen a GFCI required behind a refrigerator. Can you reference where this is in NEC? :001_unsure:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> I'm sorry, I've never seen a GFCI required behind a refrigerator. Can you reference where this is in NEC? :001_unsure:


If it's close to the kitchen sink then it is code.

But I thought we were talk about safety here. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand. There is nothing illegal with going the extra distance and installing GFCI where ever possible.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Not an electrician, and don't want to give out the wrong advice. My understanding is it can be either a dedicated circuit (non gfi) or if it is tied into your kitchen counter top circuits it must be gfi.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> If it's close to the kitchen sink then it is code.
> 
> But I thought we were talk about safety here. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand. There is nothing illegal with going the extra distance and installing GFCI where ever possible.


Agreed.
However I was responding more to _"Bring it up to modern codes. "._ I was not aware that was a modern code in a residential building.

If a code changed I feel it's important for me to be aware of it. :thumbsup:

I would change the poll to include ground + gfci but I can't.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

If you don't mind your thread high-jacked, you could post this over in electrical and start a war.... Project looks outstanding and good luck with your little one. :thumbsup:


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

47_47 said:


> If you don't mind your thread high-jacked, you could post this over in electrical and start a war.... Project looks outstanding and good luck with your little one. :thumbsup:


Naaa. I try to avoid that at all costs these days.


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

Don't know much about either but liked the audio on video..


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

While the UL was around when that fridge was made, it may not have a UL listing. Not as many products were submitted for UL approval back then.

Ground it. A GFCI may trip every time or every couple times that compressor tries to start. Specially if it has a start capacitor on it. Making it non reliable.

Remember, if you ever sell one you restored. You take on the liability if someone is injured, and it has no ground. Even if you told them it must be plugged into a GFCI. 

There should be no debate about adding a ground to it.


PS: Added third poll option for you.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree. GFIs are meant for electric shavers, hair dryers in bathrooms and outdoor plugs for electric lawnmowers etc. None of these have start capacitors or high amp draw. They are finicky in my experience so I would not want the hassle of nuisance trips etc.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Thank you Yuri---you have some interesting old bits of knowledge---

My grand mother had one of those old fridges tucked away in the cellar---

My mother remembered the ice man coming--and how wonderful it was when they got the 'modern' refrigerator--


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, GFIs are meant to replace those old razor sockets we had on the light fixture. That was B4 rechargeable anything. Those sockets actually had a special low current transformer in them with a thin wire like a fuse so if you dropped the razor in water and touched the sink you did not get fried as it would blow quickly. Amazing the trivia a person can remember. Cannot remember what I ate 2 days ago and my better half can remember the weather 5 yrs ago.

One of my co-workers Mother still has a old old Kelvinator fridge. weighs 300 llbs and roars when it starts.. Costs a fortune in elec to run, not sure why people keep them. Manitoba Hydro will pay you to get rid of them now. Decreases the load for the elec company.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

yuri said:


> Yeah, GFIs are meant to replace those old razor sockets we had on the light fixture. That was B4 rechargeable anything. Those sockets actually had a special low current transformer in them with a thin wire like a fuse so if you dropped the razor in water and touched the sink you did not get fried as it would blow quickly. Amazing the trivia a person can remember. Cannot remember what I ate 2 days ago and my better half can remember the weather 5 yrs ago.
> 
> One of my co-workers Mother still has a old old Kelvinator fridge. weighs 300 llbs and roars when it starts.. Costs a fortune in elec to run, not sure why people keep them. Manitoba Hydro will pay you to get rid of them now. Decreases the load for the elec company.



No start caps in these fridges, though they use a high resistance start winding with a start relay that may cause issues, I don't know.

Interesting thing I noticed was it appears refrigerators made in the late 1920s and 1930s are extremely energy efficient. Sometime in the early to mid 40s energy usage went through the roof and I can't figure out why. This is taking size into consideration as well.

It also seems like anything that is frostfree made from the 1960s-1980s is a nitemare to run. Although when you look at the actual cost vs other things in the house it's not really that big of a deal.

If I'm doing my math right the typical monitor top costs $3-4 a month to run while a modern fridge is in the $8-10 category. When I compare that to the cost of running air conditioning it hardly seems worth looking at.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> No start caps in these fridges, though they use a high resistance start winding with a start relay that may cause issues, I don't know.


I think most fridges are like that are they not?
I'm trying to recall from memory here but I don't think I've ever seen a start cap on a fridge (the residential ones anyway)


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> I think most fridges are like that are they not?
> I'm trying to recall from memory here but I don't think I've ever seen a start cap on a fridge (the residential ones anyway)


You're asking the wrong guy, all of my info is 80 years old.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

yuri said:


> Yeah, GFIs are meant to replace those old razor sockets we had on the light fixture. That was B4 rechargeable anything. Those sockets actually had a special low current transformer in them with a thin wire like a fuse so if you dropped the razor in water and touched the sink you did not get fried as it would blow quickly. Amazing the trivia a person can remember. Cannot remember what I ate 2 days ago and my better half can remember the weather 5 yrs ago.
> 
> One of my co-workers Mother still has a old old Kelvinator fridge. weighs 300 llbs and roars when it starts.. *Costs a fortune in elec to run, not sure why people keep them.* Manitoba Hydro will pay you to get rid of them now. Decreases the load for the elec company.


 
But if you want to dim the lights, all you have to do is open the refrigerator. (Sure saves on dimmers):yes:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

YURI, CJ, BOB.....

While I got a couple of guys who understand motors, could I transgress one second.

My site saw, a Craftsman direct drive, seems to very often trip a GFI, on both15 and 20A circuitss (just the GFI, not the breaker). And only sometimes.)

Starts fine sometimes on GFI, always starts/runs fine on non-GFI.

Should I be worried, ... any known problem or direstion I should take to fix.

THANKS IN ADVANCE for any advice.

Best


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## curtd (Oct 25, 2013)

Back then plastic wasn't around, so those frigs are like all metal. Don't have to change original wiring to 3wire to get the ground wire. Just take another separate wire, attach it to frig and to a water pipe


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> YURI, CJ, BOB.....
> 
> While I got a couple of guys who understand motors, could I transgress one second.
> 
> ...


Wow. This is just a guess and again I'm trying to recall from (foggy) memory here, but there is a lead/lag issue between the voltage and current on inductive and capacitive circuits. Inductive circuits cause a lead in voltage vs current and capacitive circuits cause a lag.... or is it the other way around... can't remember exactly. At any rate a gfci works by measuring for a current difference between the hot and the neutral. The current flow SHOULD be the same at all times between the two and if not the gfci figures there is a leakage somewhere and shuts down. But because of that lead/lag issue in inductive/capacitive circuits there is bound to be a current difference if the lead/lag issue isn't balanced out properly. Now... if an inductor (the motor) causes a lead and the start cap causes a lag then logic would dictate making sure the 2 are equalized should balance things out.

So... long story short, and if my fuzzy logic above is correct (ha ha ha) then I would suggest the start cap to be sized just slightly wrong (these things are never exactly the size they state on the side and are out by as much as 10% one way or the other) or the cap is just plain getting old.

But again this is just pure guess work. I haven't done this electronics stuff in years now, but that's where I would start... if you have a few extra bucks, buy a few new caps for it to see if you can find a better balance for the lead/lag correction.

Of course if I'm wrong, I assure you I won't be covering the cost of the caps


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree with Bob, has to do with electrical theory. Like I said earlier they were invented to save people from electrocution from water. Is it humid where you work? Maybe on days where it is more humid they trip. We get that here occasionally with thunderstorms/high humidity/power surges.

I would not worry about it, just doing it's job to protect you.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I am not going to enter the fray other than to vote for a 3 wire grounding cord. To keep the refrig. authentic looking, here is a source of reproduction cloth covered appliance cords (3 wire) and period plugs,

http://www.sundialwire.com/


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

rjniles said:


> I am not going to enter the fray other than to vote for a 3 wire grounding cord. To keep the refrig. authentic looking, here is a source of reproduction cloth covered appliance cords (3 wire) and period plugs,
> 
> http://www.sundialwire.com/


In regards to how easily it can be done the problem is not what the cord or plug looks like. If this simply ran under the chassis I wouldn't give it a second though.

The issue is the cord first plugs into the back of the cabinet up high for the light, and then continues up to the start relay box which is very visible.

Here is where the cord connects up top right in plain sight. This machine will also be placed by a door way with the relay side next to the door.

The wires sticking out of the back of the unit are for the crankcase heater and get tucked in with a cap over the hole. The cord in use was temporary and will be replaced with a correct looking 3 wire cord, I just need to figure out how to get it to fit into the connectors as well as hook up to something metal without looking bad.


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