# Do I really need to degloss paneling?



## dhoover (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm considering painting old (60's) paneling in a very small bathroom.
This paneling has a raw wood finish with very open grain, not like most paneling I've seen.

I'm considering just priming with Kilz oil base and then topcoating with latex satin. I've already researched all of the "painting paneling" info I can find and I've done a lot of painting.

I've done a test area behind a cabinet with Kilz and it seems to be sticking tight, no sanding no degloss; even absorbed a little. So would I be looking at some long term failure of adhesion? My gut says this will be fine the way it is. Opinions, experience?

Thanks


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## TheDIYerGuy (Aug 15, 2009)

Hey dhoover, 
Natural wood paneling, especially older paneling, will certainly need to be primed. The Kilz you chose is a good choice because it is oil-based and oil-based primers work great on raw wood. However, if you have any sections of knots, or sappy looking areas, you'll want to go over those sections first with a shellac-based primer like Zinsser's BIN. This will prevent any "flashing" or areas where the paint looks different due to different absorbency across the surface. Hope this helps!


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

You do not necessarily have to degloss, there's a lot of great boning primers on the market today. If it was me I would lightly sand, clean using tsp, apply Sherwin Williams Adhesion Primer, then top coat with an acrylic of your choice, I'm not familiar with zinnser. We only use Sherwin Williams products, but it sounds lke it would work too


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## dhoover (Sep 22, 2009)

TheDIYerGuy said:


> Hey dhoover,
> Natural wood paneling, especially older paneling, will certainly need to be primed. The Kilz you chose is a good choice because it is oil-based and oil-based primers work great on raw wood. However, if you have any sections of knots, or sappy looking areas, you'll want to go over those sections first with a shellac-based primer like Zinsser's BIN. This will prevent any "flashing" or areas where the paint looks different due to different absorbency across the surface. Hope this helps!


Thanks for both replies. Getting closer to a decision. Letting my test area cure a little longer and will do a "tape test".
This paneling is a real wood surface, but is as thin as modern vinyl finish paneling. No knots, but looks like a real wood veneer.

So I have another question about three Zinsser products. I've heard at least one horror story about using water-based products warping this thin paneling. So . . . one bonding primer ("1-2-3") is water-based:

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=11

Another Zinsser product (H2Oil-Base) seems to be a hybrid:

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=13

But I'm leaning toward (B-I-N). Not described as a bonding primer, but my surface is not as smooth as more modern paneling:

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=10

I guess my tape test will tell if the Kilz was effective. The price of Zinsser vs Kilz products suggests a quality difference. (You get what you pay for)

Any input on my three options is appreciated. Thanks


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

The difference in cost has more to do with the chemistry than anything else. Both products mentioned are very good. Oil based products, because of the solvents, will be more expensive than latex. Neither option should be so thin it would cause your paneling to warp.

I tend to specify Benjamin Moore Fresh Start primer (and paint) the most. It is high hiding, adheres nicely and comes in both a water-based and oil-based alkyd formulation as do primers from Sherwin Williams---another favored brand. Sherwin Williams sells an alkyd that is really great if you are painting after heavy smokers have been using the house. If available in your area, MAB (now owned by Sherwin Williams) makes an extraordinary, full bodied, latex primer, Superbond, that is great for woodwork and will stick nicely to just about anything with reasonable surface prep. 

As for whether you should degloss or not? The more energy and time you put into the prep the better your finished project is going to look---and last. Don't risk having the paint come away from the surface. At the very least use a good, strong detergent and see how far that gets you.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I would agree with the last poster, the better prep the better job.I would at least make sure it is positively clean, and a little light scruff sanding would not hurt either. Any of the primers you mentioned will work. me, I would go with the 123, yes, it is latex, but it drys so fast( as will all the others) you should have no problem with any warping, especially if it is nailed correctly.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

BIN 123 all the way for this. Specific primers are for specific tasks. 123 will adhere to your paneling and bond well with you top coat. Clean it first. As stated above a slight scuff wouldn't hurt but probably isn't necessary.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

MinConst said:


> BIN 123 all the way for this. Specific primers are for specific tasks. 123 will adhere to your paneling and bond well with you top coat. Clean it first. As stated above a slight scuff wouldn't hurt but probably isn't necessary.


 
Just to clarify Bin and 123 are very different primers:yes: Bin would be over kill( both for the project and yourself):laughing:

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=11

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?productid=10


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

My bad Bullseye 123


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## dhoover (Sep 22, 2009)

MinConst said:


> My bad Bullseye 123


Thanks to everyone.
"1-2-3" it is then.
The can says not to use TSP, just household ammonia and water. That sounds OK with me too; this paneling is not dirty, but I will clean it. I'm guessing just not too wet a cleaning; this stuff will absorb water.

Thanks again.
(Appreciate the comment on overkill. The buzz from primers is always a new experience, but being dead is not totally appealing :wink


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