# Fence Posts - Dirt, Concrete or Foam



## cleveman (Dec 17, 2011)

I like your stone underneath for drainage idea, and to adjust the bottom of the hole.

I would use whatever local stone you have. Here, I would use crushed limestone, and I would tamp down with a long, blunt-headed bar and a sledge hammer towards the top of the hole.

If you compact some 3/4" & minus stone, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between that and concrete.


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

Hey... also just found this...

http://www.ozcobuildingproducts.com/Oz-Post__Wood_Posts_.html

Still leaning towards the 'old-fashioned' way. This looks fairly easy, but I'd have to rent a jackhammer. I only need 8 posts total.

I've got a sledge hammer, so just need a good tamping bar. If I can't find a chap one, probably ok to just use an old 2x4.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

If you live in Conn.you will need tp go more than 2' deep to get below the frost line.
Why would you make the holes 2' 4" for a 4X4 post?
You do not want to disturb any more of the original soil than you need to.
You will need to use 8' posts and get them below the frost line or they will heave this winter.You also need to consider wind.2' deep will not deal with much wind holding up a fence.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Although we often read the recommendation to place gravel in the bottom of a post hole for drainage I see no purpose and a complete waste of time and material. And pea gravel won't compact so put the dirt back in and tamp it in about 6 or 8 inch lifts. If you must have some kind of gravel use chat tamped and vibrate the post. A good tamping bar is a length of 1-1/4 inch pipe plugged with dried clay dirt and I like about a 5 degree bend at an appropriate distance from the end.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Pea gravel does not compact.
In you area the frost line is at least 3".
Need an 8" hole for a 4 X 4.
Use concrete and be done with it.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i talked to a fence installer guy about putting stone at bottom of hole "for drainage". he said that it was popluar idea a few years back but most pros have moved away from that technique because the post will slip along the rocks at the bottom and move.. i.e. the wind pressing on the fence will cause fence to tilt easily cause of slide on rocks.

make sure you drop your 4x4 below the frost level in your area. pour 1' of concrete down in the hole and then backfill with soil. you can backfill immediately by the way, don't have to wait for concrete to dry (though its better if you do). do not pour concrete up to near surface because frost heave.. if you have that in your area.


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

This is great advice. Seems to make sense and maybe saved me from making some errors. Plan is to do this in a few weeks. It's a bit unfortunate that I now have to dig deeper, but I'm thinking of getting a power auger to do the job. I only need seven holes, but if I have to go down 3' or more, it just seems that the time saved is worth the trip back and forth to the rental place.

The area where this will go won't be getting a lot of wind and there will be spaced pickets, so I'm not overly concerned about that, but still... even average wind over that much surface will produce a fair amount of force, so points are well taken on need to go deeper. I was being lazy. At 3' down it just means I'd need 8' 4x4s and then have to cut the tops off once planted. I'll put a small layer of some kind of aggregate at the bottom, but not the bunch of pea gravel I'd originally considered. I just want something there for a little bit of help with drainage. And then just use concrete for first foot. I don't want to use too much as it seems a) unnecessary and b) if I ever do have to pull them out it will be challenging enough without a giant block of crete on the bottom!

Question: Do you guys mix the concrete first and pour it in or just mix in the hole?

Question 2: Any good online suppliers for parts? HD has some semi nice looking cedar kits that are only $29.99 for the 6' runs, but they don't seem to sell matching posts or rails. I found this stuff online in CT http://fence-material.com/cefesppic.html but that's going to cost me over $1,100 vs. maybe $300. I don't want to be overly cheap, but if I can find reasonable quality for less, that would be great. I'd need delivery in any case as my SUV just can't haul all that material easily.

Thanks for the great advice. Probably saved me some trouble down the road.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i would never buy pre-made fencing, i always install old fashion way because it is way stronger and looks nicer (you can do more creative finishing) and you can work around easily odd things like trees. 

the one-man auger is great, do NOT waste your time with two man auger. 

for a fence, i think its fine to mix in hole, but i find it is far easier to mix in a wheelbarrow. its only one bag per fence post so its not a big deal. also, you do not have to cement every hole, i do every _other_ and the corners and gate support posts. be mindful of how much water you add; do not exceed limit written on bag of concrete. do not breath that stuff in either, its nasty. 

for 7 holes you can also just get a post hole digger shovel as i have. i did 260 linear feet of fencing with it and i dunno, like 25 deck piers 12" dia. shovel works great. if you have rocks in your area the shovel will not be enough, you will also need a 6' iron digging bar (also is rentable at home-depot). i own one of these bars, is tremendously useful for all sorts of things besides digging. i recently used it to heave a concrete lid off an old cistern for example


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

In this area we dig below the frost line and fill the hole with concrete crowning the top a slight bit above the soil.I have been doing fences this way for 40 years and have never had a call back.I'm sure some of the posts have rotted and the customers just lost my number but it is a sound way of doing posts.Went by a fence I did 20 years a ago that was a 6' tall privacy.A tornadoe went thru the neighborhhood a few years ago and never affected the fence.


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## eclark (Jan 23, 2012)

I bought some cedar from a place in orange NJ (can't remember east west south or plain orange) that had great prices on cedar and was really nice to deal with. They were literally half the cost of the local suppliers on Long Island so it was well worth the time gas and tolls. Depending on where in CT you are it might not even be that far. 


Sent from my iPhone using diychatroom.com


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## EyeballEngineer (Jul 31, 2014)

Scottg said:


> Hey... also just found this...
> 
> http://www.ozcobuildingproducts.com/Oz-Post__Wood_Posts_.html
> 
> ...


I just planted two of the T4-650 post anchors using a manual post pounder and an adaptor for a picket fence. The post pounder was a good upper body work out. The adaptor was a 3.5"x3.5"x8.0" chunk of wood with a 1 inch diameter post protruding 22" out of the top. The only issues I had was was a bit of trouble keeping them level while I pounded them in, and they go deep enough to merit a call to 811. FYI, Ozco was the only brand I found that advertised a wind load rating.

I don't advise planting wood posts directly into the ground. The part of my south side yard fence, that was done by our neighbors, did that and the posts are all but rotted out. The part that was our responsability had 2-3/8 galvanized steel posts set in concrete, and is still in good shape.

My (very amateur) $.02? Foot the oz-post anchors in concrete and just replace the above ground posts as they weather and wear out.


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

In the end, there's a lot of ways to do this and tons of different preferences.

My end result was using Weathershield 4x4 posts, and a fairly cheap Spruce fence. Originally was going to be Cedar, but at last minute, wife wanted 4' instead of 3' but - oddly - no one locally had 4' in cedar and I knew that the long Labor Day weekend would be my only chance to do this for awhile. So I just got the spruce. After we paint it, maybe it's only good for 8 - 12 years instead of 18 - 20. It was really cheap, (about $35 for 8' panel, which I sliced up as necessary to make gates, etc.) Since we're painting it anyway, I figured Spruce wouldn't be that horrible as compared to cedar in terms of looks. If leaving it natural wood, I'd have waited to get cedar.

Ended up using 6' 4x4's and 2 1/2 foot holes with some tamped gravel in bottom of holes. So 2' of posts are underground with QuickCrete up to about 6' below surface, then dirt. I dug the holes manually, which was harder than I thought it would be, but not too terrible. Used the clamshell digger and a skinny shovel. Then a tamping bar with one end like a large slotted screwdriver to dig out and move dirt for the last six to eight inches the shovel couldn't quite get to. Also used to either lever out or outright break some rocks.

Soooo.... we'll see what happens. Winters at our place can be from average to pretty bad. If I screwed it up, I'll know inside of a couple of years.

The gates are 'recessed' a bit as we wanted them opening in towards the back and in a particular direction to match pitch of yard so they'd swing the way we wanted. It's not optimal, but also not really noticeable.

Part of me thinks if I had it to do over again, vinyl would be ok as that surrounds the backyard already, and this was just to close of the sides. Even so, the white painted picket will match the house and look so much better, maybe it's worth it even though it won't likely last as long.

I still need to do some work to block off some of the far back fence bottoms that have gaps so the dog doesn't get under, but having her off leash back there is amazing. She can really let loose, play some frisbee, etc., so mission accomplished. We'll see how it lasts!


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