# 2 coats stain or 1 coat primer & 1 coat paint?



## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

I am going to be repainting the exterior of my house which has HardiPlank siding and cedar trim. Would it be better to use two coats of solid color stain (i.e. Sherwin Williams Woodscapes) or to use one coat primer (i.e. Bullseye 123) and one topcoat of paint (Sherwin Williams SuperPaint)? I am looking for the option that will give me the best look and longest life.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

bhtko said:


> I am going to be repainting the exterior of my house which has HardiPlank siding and cedar trim. Would it be better to use two coats of solid color stain (i.e. Sherwin Williams Woodscapes) or to use one coat primer (i.e. Bullseye 123) and one topcoat of paint (Sherwin Williams SuperPaint)? I am looking for the option that will give me the best look and longest life.


I would spot prime the hardieboard (any bare spots) then apply two coats of Sherwin Williams Superpaint


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

bhtko said:


> I am going to be repainting the exterior of my house which has HardiPlank siding and cedar trim. Would it be better to use two coats of solid color stain (i.e. Sherwin Williams Woodscapes) or to use one coat primer (i.e. Bullseye 123) and one topcoat of paint (Sherwin Williams SuperPaint)? I am looking for the option that will give me the best look and longest life.


Unless Woodscapes is an oil stain, then go with one coat paint, two coats of finish (trust me). 

Only a solid oil stain is self priming, solid acrylic stains only work on rough surfaces like t-111 (water doesn't penetrate like oil does.)

Oh, and if your house was painted in the first place, stick with paint. stains need to penetrate and paint is a skin. you can't penetrate a skin, unless you sand it off.


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*re-painting HardiPlank*

Unless the HardiPlank is new and is not pre-primed I would go with two coats of 100% acrylic exterior house paint. If you do have raw spots then make sure and prime with a masonry primer that will handle the PH of the Hardiboard. Although solid color stain would work, it's not going to last as long as a Super Paint from Sherwins or equivalent.

www.PearlPainters.com
Pearl Painters Portland Oregon



bhtko said:


> I am going to be repainting the exterior of my house which has HardiPlank siding and cedar trim. Would it be better to use two coats of solid color stain (i.e. Sherwin Williams Woodscapes) or to use one coat primer (i.e. Bullseye 123) and one topcoat of paint (Sherwin Williams SuperPaint)? I am looking for the option that will give me the best look and longest life.


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

Pearl Painters said:


> Unless the HardiPlank is new and is not pre-primed I would go with two coats of 100% acrylic exterior house paint. If you do have raw spots then make sure and prime with a masonry primer that will handle the PH of the Hardiboard. Although solid color stain would work, it's not going to last as long as a Super Paint from Sherwins or equivalent.
> 
> www.PearlPainters.com
> Pearl Painters Portland Oregon


 
Thank you all for your replies. It seems like eveyone who has replied has a different opinion so far. To clarify, the HardiPlank and cedar trim on my house is not new - it was painted once before when the house was built about 9 years ago. There are no bare spots on either. I will be changing colors as well, if that matters. I have had painting contractors come out to look at the house and both are offering two coats of stain as what they would recommend but one has also said that the one coat of primer with one coat of paint would be the "ultimate" solution for about a 10% higher price. I would like to try doing this myself so I am trying to figure out which of the two options would be a better solution. If anyone has any more thoughts or ideas on this they would be greatly appreciated.


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*Stain vs Paint on Hardi plank siding*

The material cost will be more for paint but the labor should not change... Since this is a re-paint I would suggest 2 coats of 100% Acrylic house paint. If you want another opinion on what's best call the paint store and ask them what's best solid stain or paint. The cost difference between solid stain and paint should not be much more than $10 per gallon difference. And a 3000 sq ft home (2 story) should not use more than 20 gallons of paint for the siding and soffits. So if the price swing is more than a couple hundred bucks then something is not right. Another thing to think about is sheen level. Going with a Satin for the body and semi gloss for doors and trim will also outlast flat finishes, and as far as I know solid stains only come in flat. 

Hope this helps!

www.PearlPainters.com
Pearl Painters Portland Oregon



bhtko said:


> Thank you all for your replies. It seems like eveyone who has replied has a different opinion so far. To clarify, the HardiPlank and cedar trim on my house is not new - it was painted once before when the house was built about 9 years ago. There are no bare spots on either. I have had painting contractors come out to look at the house and both are offering two coats of stain as what they would recommend but one has also said that the one coat of primer with one coat of paint would be the "ultimate" solution for about a 10% higher price. I know next to nothing about painting so I am trying to figure out which of the two options would be a better solution. If anyone has any more thoughts or ideas on this they would be greatly appreciated.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I think most will agree that once it has been painted then you need to stick with paint. Stain is designed to soak into the wood and a previoisly painted surface will not allow that.


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*Solid stain vs Paint*

Matthew you are correct that stain is designed to soak in. In this case he was considering a solid stain which essentially looks like and acts like paint especially when applied over previously painted hardi plank (cement fiber board) not raw wood. Solid stain would work, but solid stains limit you to only a flat finish. I'm sure the coating manufacture would have something to add to this, but to me solid stain is allot like a watered down paint... (less solids) this allows the grain to still show when applied to wood. Stains also have the ability to be applied to raw wood, allowing someone to skip the primer step, and will not trigger tannins to leach from wood. At the end of the day I would recommend the slightly more expensive paint option which will last several years longer than a solid stain... well worth the couple hundred bucks extra!

www.PearlPainters.com
Pearl Painters Portland Oregon


quote=Matthewt1970;506968]I think most will agree that once it has been painted then you need to stick with paint. Stain is designed to soak into the wood and a previoisly painted surface will not allow that.[/quote]


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

Pearl Painters said:


> Matthew you are correct that stain is designed to soak in. In this case he was considering a solid stain which essentially looks like and acts like paint especially when applied over previously painted hardi plank (cement fiber board) not raw wood. Solid stain would work, but solid stains limit you to only a flat finish. I'm sure the coating manufacture would have something to add to this, but to me solid stain is allot like a watered down paint... (less solids) this allows the grain to still show when applied to wood. Stains also have the ability to be applied to raw wood, allowing someone to skip the primer step, and will not trigger tannins to leach from wood. At the end of the day I would recommend the slightly more expensive paint option which will last several years longer than a solid stain... well worth the couple hundred bucks extra!
> 
> www.PearlPainters.com
> Pearl Painters Portland Oregon
> ...


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*Painted HardiPlank*



bhtko said:


> Pearl Painters said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew you are correct that stain is designed to soak in. In this case he was considering a solid stain which essentially looks like and acts like paint especially when applied over previously painted hardi plank (cement fiber board) not raw wood. Solid stain would work, but solid stains limit you to only a flat finish. I'm sure the coating manufacture would have something to add to this, but to me solid stain is allot like a watered down paint... (less solids) this allows the grain to still show when applied to wood. Stains also have the ability to be applied to raw wood, allowing someone to skip the primer step, and will not trigger tannins to leach from wood. At the end of the day I would recommend the slightly more expensive paint option which will last several years longer than a solid stain... well worth the couple hundred bucks extra!
> ...


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

Which paint would you recommend for HardiPlank siding, Sherwin Williams Duration or Sherwin Williams SuperPaint?


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

Both are good... Super paint has been on the market longer, but the paint store will tell you that duration is the best. If your like most and want to change color every 10 years then I would save some money and go with super paint.

www.PearlPainters.com
Pearl Painters Portland Oregon




bhtko said:


> Which paint would you recommend for HardiPlank siding, Sherwin Williams Duration or Sherwin Williams SuperPaint?


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## edpainting (Sep 26, 2010)

*2 coats of stain*

It is best to use stain whenever you can. If you go with primer and paint you are still supposed to apply two coats of paint after priming. Painting may give you more years the first time but staining will be better in the long run.

Exterior Painting
CT Painters


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

edpainting said:


> It is best to use stain whenever you can. If you go with primer and paint you are still supposed to apply two coats of paint after priming. Painting may give you more years the first time but staining will be better in the long run.
> 
> Exterior Painting
> CT Painters


 
Why is it best to use stain whenever you can and why is staining better in the long run? I was planning on using no primer and two coats of SuperPaint.


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## edpainting (Sep 26, 2010)

As sb suggested above if it is already painted stick to paint. If it is primed you can go either way. You say that you have cedar trim if that is rough then it's made to stain (you still need to prime though, oil primer if you are going a light color especially). The advantage of stain over paint is that it won't crack and peel like paint will because is more elastic and will expand and contract with the wood. Now on the hardiplank paint will probably be the best choice because it doesn't have that problem and the advantage paint has over stain is that it will fade slower.
If it's not pre-primed 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of either will be fine, you can't go wrong.

Exterior Painting Contractors


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

WHOAH, WHOAH, WHOAH!!!! Hold on here! Trust me, if it is ALREADY PAINTED, STICK TO PAINT!!!!!! Only prime if the surface is peeling, raw surface, cracked, chalky, i.e. not a clean, sound surface. So, apply two coats of superpaint, after you determine if it needs primer or not. Now listen closely to this: ALL A SOLID ACRYLIC STAIN IS IS A WATERED DOWN PAINT!!!! Why, why, would you use a solid acrylic stain on top of primer? IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE. it will still peel like paint! you might as well just use a good 100% acrylic exterior low sheen PAINT. flat's do not hold up outside as good as an enamels. THE ONLY TIME YOU WOULD USE A SOLID ACRYLIC STAIN IS ON TOP OF A ROUGH SURFACE THAT IS STILL RAW WOOD, AND ONLY APPLY TWO COATS OF THAT, NO PRIMER. IF THERE IS A COAT OF SOMETHING ALREADY, PAINT IT.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

Matthewt1970 said:


> I think most will agree that once it has been painted then you need to stick with paint. Stain is designed to soak into the wood and a previoisly painted surface will not allow that.


MATTHEW1970 took the word right out of my mouth. listen to him!!!


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> WHOAH, WHOAH, WHOAH!!!! Hold on here! Trust me, if it is ALREADY PAINTED, STICK TO PAINT!!!!!! Only prime if the surface is peeling, raw surface, cracked, chalky, i.e. not a clean, sound surface. So, apply two coats of superpaint, after you determine if it needs primer or not. Now listen closely to this: ALL A SOLID ACRYLIC STAIN IS IS A WATERED DOWN PAINT!!!! Why, why, would you use a solid acrylic stain on top of primer? IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE. it will still peel like paint! you might as well just use a good 100% acrylic exterior low sheen PAINT. flat's do not hold up outside as good as an enamels. THE ONLY TIME YOU WOULD USE A SOLID ACRYLIC STAIN IS ON TOP OF A ROUGH SURFACE THAT IS STILL RAW WOOD, AND ONLY APPLY TWO COATS OF THAT, NO PRIMER. IF THERE IS A COAT OF SOMETHING ALREADY, PAINT IT.


 
Thank you for the clarification. You mention to prime if the surface is chalky. My existing painted HardiPlank siding is, in fact, chalky. The painting contractor that I am working with has proposed to soft wash the siding using Jomax with bleach to clean the siding and remove the chalking. They then are proposing to use an Emulsa Bond additive to the first of two coats of SuperPaint. Would this be sufficient, in your opinion, to address the chalky siding or would I still need a first coat of primer?


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

bhtko said:


> Thank you for the clarification. You mention to prime if the surface is chalky. My existing painted HardiPlank siding is, in fact, chalky. The painting contractor that I am working with has proposed to soft wash the siding using Jomax with bleach to clean the siding and remove the chalking. They then are proposing to use an Emulsa Bond additive to the first of two coats of SuperPaint. Would this be sufficient, in your opinion, to address the chalky siding or would I still need a first coat of primer?


If you clean the chalk off, you do not need to prime. and i would only add the emulsa bond to the first coat of paint.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Correct. INFACT, you are NOT supposed to put Emulsabond in a second coat per the instructions.


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## bhtko (Sep 24, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> If you clean the chalk off, you do not need to prime. and i would only add the emulsa bond to the first coat of paint.


 
Perfect, that is exactly what they are intending on doing...


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## Peddi (Jul 7, 2011)

*HardiPlank Stain Problems*

Since having stained HardiPlank installed in 2005 we have had a BIG problem!! The stain was factory applied by a Hardi approved factory- Duckback Products- and is peeling off the siding. This started after just 2 years while the stain has a 12 year warranty. We are still in the process of having them honor their warranty.

They no longer offer the stain process and that leads me to believe that they must be aware of problems!!

Does anyone here have or know of others with this problem??

Thanks!!

Peddi


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## pbrg.com (Aug 9, 2012)

bhtko said:


> I am going to be repainting the exterior of my house which has HardiPlank siding and cedar trim. Would it be better to use two coats of solid color stain (i.e. Sherwin Williams Woodscapes) or to use one coat primer (i.e. Bullseye 123) and one topcoat of paint (Sherwin Williams SuperPaint)? I am looking for the option that will give me the best look and longest life.


Woodscapes makes an excellent primer on various surfaces such as HardiPlank. It (Woodscapes) provides a handsome, matte finish (which I prefer on siding) and with at least 2 coats and it will ensure even, complete coverage with long lasting results. I'm a professional painting contractor and I've been using Woodscapes for 15 yrs and Ive experienced outstanding, long-term results with it. I've been in the business for 30 yrs and no longer use oil-based solid stains as I've found they are unflexible, become too brittle and break down when exposed to sun light. The last 2 jobs I currently completed I previously did 10 & 11 yrs ago with Woodscapes (with the same proceedure), and they were both still in fairly good shape before I re-painted them.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

It's been a while since I posted on this, but NEVER use oil stain on hardiplank siding. water based stains and paint work much better on that surface.


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## Expert Paint (Jul 24, 2012)

if it is already painted. . . stick with paint. paint lasts longer than stain anyway!??! the only advantage of a stain is that it will go directly to bare wood. .. but the longest label warranty on any stain on the market is 8years (woodscapes) most all paints offer at least 10-15 .. . some lifetime. that tells you that when primed and painted you are way better off than 2 coats stained.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

In this case, paint is better. Yes, it lasts longer, HOWEVER, STAIN is easier to apply and maintain. It fails easier. IF DONE RIGHT, all stain does is fade away, and you just clean the surface, (maybe light sand) and re-apply. Paint lasts longer, yes, but there's more steps to it and takes longer to apply (due to paint peeling when it fails) so you have to scrap, sand, prime, then apply two coats finish to do a good paint job. BUT, I do not mean to confuse you........use a high quality water based, 100% acrylic finish, best ext paint is Ben Moore's Aura:http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...s_cu=clean_soapwater&piSheen=634&advs=0&tab=2. And be sure to use a good quality primer as well, that's key (if the surface hasn't been painted before OR is in bad shape or has an old finish). Good luck.


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