# Getting impact windows ! Have two to choose from, which is best ?



## filo74 (Jul 9, 2009)

I will answer my own question since nobody here knows SQUAT ! I was able to talk to someone that installs these for a living and he told me that Lawson and PGT are built identical as far as thickness and quality goes. He told me the more expensive PGT windows are EASY to break into with a butter knife and to avoid PGT at all costs ! So there you go....PGT sucks for the money.


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

Actually, I saw your message this morning and I was planning to answer it this afternoon - however, since no one here knows squat, I imagine that my answer wouldn't be any help anyway.

:whistling2:

But, what the heck, so....

Laminated glass is made up of two sheets of glass and a plastic interlayer. The two primary types of plastic interlayers most used in laminated glass are PVB or polyvinyl butyral and SGP or Sentry Glass Plus. PVB is a relatively soft and pliable plastic and it is the same material that is used in the windshield of your car; however when used in an impact product it is three times thicker than it is in your car's windshield.

SGP is a much more rigid interlayer that was designed specifically for the impact application.

Since your primary concern is sound-blocking you want to use PVB. SGP does little in sound blocking application versus PVB.

Glass for your home is available in three "states"; annealed, heat strengthened, and tempered. Glass used for laminated glass in impact windows can be made using annealed, heat strengthened, and tempered. 

The salesman who told you that "_annealed laminated glass is not as good as just pure laminated glass. Lawson has annealed laminated glass_." either doesn't know glass very well or else wasn't good at explaining - resulting in a misunderstanding. The term "_pure laminated glass_" has no meaning.

Annealed glass used in laminated make up will meet your specifications. There is no sound control advantage to using either heat strengthened or tempered laminated glass. There can be windload advantages to using heat strengthened or tempered when laminating, but it isn't as common (by a good bit) versus using annealed glass.

Impact glass comes in thicknesses ranging from a bit under 1/4" up to 3/4" or more. Generally, thicker impact glass is going to be an improvement in sound blocking ability - it also can be a good bit more expensive for several reasons.

From a security standpoint, laminated glass using SGP is a superior product to using PVB. However, both products will stop a 2x4 at 50fps from passing thru the glass. The same 2x4 will punch thru 3/4" plywood more times than not and 1/4" impact glass will stop it better than 95% of the time depending on a few other factors. 

Few break-ins occur when the windows are in some ways stronger than the walls.


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## RegeSullivan (Dec 8, 2006)

If this is a big investment it might be worth your time to call a couple of manufactures and/or suppliers and form your own opinion. 

True, I don't know Squat and I'm just a "Stiller" fan from "Picksburgh". So now you know I don't live in an area that requires impact windows therefor I don't know anything about impact windows either. I do have experience with contractors (installers) and I would be cautious of his/her recommendation unless we had a really good relationship. While most contractors I have worked with have great integrity often they are biased to a particular product because it is: all they use, all they know about, the best wholesale price (most markup) or lots of other reasons unrelated to quality. Sometimes they simply have been influenced by a particular manufacture and often truly believe they are giving good advice when they have been misinformed.


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## filo74 (Jul 9, 2009)

RegeSullivan said:


> If this is a big investment it might be worth your time to call a couple of manufactures and/or suppliers and form your own opinion.
> 
> True, I don't know Squat and I'm just a "Stiller" fan from "Picksburgh". So now you know I don't live in an area that requires impact windows therefor I don't know anything about impact windows either. I do have experience with contractors (installers) and I would be cautious of his/her recommendation unless we had a really good relationship. While most contractors I have worked with have great integrity often they are biased to a particular product because it is: all they use, all they know about, the best wholesale price (most markup) or lots of other reasons unrelated to quality. Sometimes they simply have been influenced by a particular manufacture and often truly believe they are giving good advice when they have been misinformed.



Thanks Rege ! I will look more into it. I found another home improvement forum where I have been receiving a lot of excellent responses. Thanks for the insight.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Are these installed prices?


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Here's something no one has mentioned but that's probably because none of us here know squat and in fact you really don't deserve this information anyway.

But, If you were smart (and that's fairly questionable right now) you should first check to see that those window products you are looking to buy are products that qualify for the Federal Income Tax Credit of fifteen hundred dollars for anyone upgrading windows on their homes this year.

If they don't qualify for the tax credit, and not all windows do, then keep looking. Didja get that news from the other forum?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I think you should probably just post one thread. The mass posting of this all over the board makes it appear as if you are trying to strong arm the company. 

I asked these same questions in another forum.

Is the water entering the home (i.e. on the sills) or is it just in the sill? A slider window is based on a pocket sill window and water will accumulate in a wind driven rain. I would like to see what the sill level is like and if they are installed with any negative camber in towards the home. Condensation (especially on a large piece of glass) can account for a good bit of water as well. Not uncommon to have a cup of water on a large picture window like that if the conditions are right.

Any relative humidity readings on the home? How about exterior temperatures?


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Turns out dontknowsquat is a member here. I think I'll send him a friend request. I used to know Jack Squat but we lost touch. Maybe they are kin folk. 

http://www.diychatroom.com/members/dontknowsquat-22299/


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Aa1notary said:


> Do not get Lawson Windows. We purchased Lawson windows over 2 months ago and it has been the most disappointing and frustrating experience. We spent a fortune and 3 out of 14 windows are allowing water to infiltrate our home. We collected close to 2 cups of water. Terrible customer service, Lawson doesn't take responsibility for their product, lacks integrity or they would work with us to resolve this issue. I was under the impression the new technology not only withstood hurricane five winds, provided better insulation and was water resistant too. Video shows how much water came into our home. https://www.periscope.tv/w/aLMOgjQy...4bCqMWQcxKgY6v0A3shBL-3kWqCZO9B_dITENZLvoOb-5


2 thoughts, 
1. when you take video turn your phone sideways. Those vertical videos drive people nuts.
2. Have you tested your weep holes to be sure they are functioning? there should be at least 2, maybe more. I am not familiar with Lawson windows but they have weep holes to let that water out. I'd open the window, pour a couple cups of water in your track and watch it either come out the weep holes or not. If your collecting that much water in the trck the weep holes ain't working. It might be a real easy fix.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

It wouldn't be the first time that an installer caulked over a weep hole unintentionally.


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## Aa1notary (Aug 31, 2015)

Thank you for the responses. I'm new to these forums so I apologize if I over posted. I just want to make sure I understand and these are our first impact windows. It's normal for water to come inside but the windows are working as long as they're draining. Do the weap holes get blocked? Is that something we need to maintain? There seems to be a lot of water can these overflow into the house?


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Aa1notary said:


> Thank you for the responses. I'm new to these forums so I apologize if I over posted. I just want to make sure I understand and these are our first impact windows. It's normal for water to come inside but the windows are working as long as they're draining. Do the weap holes get blocked? Is that something we need to maintain? There seems to be a lot of water can these overflow into the house?


The weep holes should handle most rain. Maybe not a driving rain that pours 3-4 inches in 20 minutes against the window. It may very well not be your weep holes. In fact its probably not. Its just an easy thing to check and only takes 5 minutes and a couple cups of water to confirm they are or are not draining. Pour water in the track and check outside as marked.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Please don't take offense to my inquiry, but if the windows haven't been tested why would you feel if it's acceptable to come in and impugn the manufacturer.

Have you called the installer to have them perform a water test or otherwise inspect the windows?

A general inspection and water test would be the first place to start. That very quickly would tell an intelligent installer everything he/she would need to know.


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