# Graco FFLP Spray Tips



## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Depending on the paint, you might have trouble pushing it through a small FF tip using the X7 (which I think is the lowest level unit Graco sells).

Go ahead and try but make sure you strain the paint first and use a 25' hose. Tip size is pretty much based on the width of your work to spray. I'm assuming you're only spraying trim and going to roll walls. Tell your paint supplier what you're shooting it through when you buy the paint and they'll suggest the proper FF tip. you'll also need a new tip guard.


FF tips are definitely worth it for door and trim.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Thanks for the reply
Actually I am intending on using the sprayer for walls and trim.
I have not used a sprayer before. This will be a brand new machine.
The plan is to get in and paint before moving any furniture etc, so I am going to cover everything and hopefully spray away


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Have a new FFLP haven't used it yet (better be good for $50.) Fine finish tips are great for trim, doors, crown and chair rail, not so much for wall and ceilings. Take a 310 say that's a 6" fan, overlap by 50% that leaves only 3" of new paint per pass. Now imagine painting your walls or a big ceiling with a 3" roller. The 515 would be a better size for large area. The downside is there will be more overspray.

You might want to rethink spraying the walls unless there is someone to follow you and back roll. The reason for this is if you ever need any type repair or 
touch-up it will never match unless you spray again.

The X7 is a decent sprayer for home, not built for someone say that would put hundreds of gallons thru it every year. Not real familiar with the X7 but you may want to check that you can regulate the pressure on it, some smaller sprayers you cannot. The LP part of the tip means you can cut the pressure back quite a bit and get the same finish. If your machine won't do that the tip won't do you much good.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Toolseeker...For walls I was thinking a 514 or 516. The new FFLP tips appear to come in these larger sizes. I am most interested in getting the new type of tip for less overspray and better overall application. Maybe 516 sounds most appropriate? Here is the sprayer I was going to get. Has adjustable pressure.

https://www.amazon.com/Graco-Magnum-262805-Airless-Sprayer/dp/B0026SSW8G

As far as back rolling is it just the spray will leave a finish unlike a roller? If there is a repair then roller or brush will leave obvious difference in texture?

The whole point of getting the sprayer would be to make the job quicker. I essentially have the entire interior of the house to repaint and then in the fall I will need to paint the entire exterior. For outside it seems like a no-brainer to get the sprayer.

So...the question now is- would the sprayer make quicker work of painting the interior? Is spraying and backrolling still quicker than just plain old rolling? Or is all the additional taping off and prep work not worth it?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes the sprayer will leave a very smooth finish and even a small touch up with a roller or brush will be a different texture and quite noticeable. Also the smooth finish from the sprayer will make any defects in the wall stand out more. For exterior you can't beat the sprayer. In fact I'm doing a house right now spray ing the ceilings, base, chair, door frames and doors but rolling all the walls.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it just trying to let you be aware of what to look out for


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

ToolSeeker said:


> You might want to rethink spraying the walls unless there is someone to follow you and back roll. The reason for this is if you ever need any type repair or touch-up it will never match unless you spray again.


If you spray over a previously rolled surface wouldn't it assume the rougher surface like any other surface one sprays like spraying a rough cut board?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

wptski said:


> If you spray over a previously rolled surface wouldn't it assume the rougher surface like any other surface one sprays like spraying a rough cut board?




Yes, that's true. However that still doesn't change Tool's point. Sprayed paint will have a slightly different sheen than rolled or brushed paint for a couple reasons. Partially just the texture, a smooth coat (even over a not so smooth surface) will reflect light differently than a nappy rolled coat. 

Also when paint is forced through a spray tip it can change the sheen of it as well. It's called 'tip shear. Different paints and tip sizes may be more or less susceptible to this, but it generally does happen. That's why after a spray job a lot of professionals will shoot some paint through the sprayer out into a bucket for touch up. That can help, but doesn't always completely solve the problem of manually touching up a sprayed surface. 


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

On the subject of the new tips, I have just recently started experimenting with the FFLP tips. My first try didn't work out so well. 

What I learned from that, and talking to the Graco rep, is that it's crucial to use the seats that come with the tips. You get a new seat with any tip you buy, but I rarely ever change them. Generally doesn't matter because they are all the same. Except for the new FFLP ones that is. They have a specially designed seat with a smaller orifice. 

The FFLP system is not just for trim work or other jobs that require a small orifice, but functions across the spectrum of tip sizes. I got a 519 FFLP from the rep the other day that would be suitable for walls or ceilings, but haven't tried it yet. 

I haven't used them enough to have an informed opinion, but my feeling so far is that they would be a good choice for inexperienced spray people. Just follow the directions exactly, and don't over-pressurize them. They actually create more overspray at mid-high pressures than the regular FF tips. 


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Jmayspaint said:


> On the subject of the new tips, I have just recently started experimenting with the FFLP tips. My first try didn't work out so well.
> 
> What I learned from that, and talking to the Graco rep, is that it's crucial to use the seats that come with the tips. You get a new seat with any tip you buy, but I rarely ever change them. Generally doesn't matter because they are all the same. Except for the new FFLP ones that is. They have a specially designed seat with a smaller orifice.
> 
> ...


I have a Graco Truecoat Pro II handheld with modified tip guards to use any RAC X tip. Its seat has a "O" ring seal unlike RAC X seats but its hole is probably less the .010" bigger than the FFLP seats. The OEM RAC X seats had a large hole. I haven't tried the FFLP tips although I have two.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Just getting ready to try mine THANKS Jmay for the heads up.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Thanks for all the feedback. I dont think the ceilings need to be done in the house, and seems like walls might be better off rolled, so I think I will stick with sprayer for the trim only. There is quite a bit, so still worth it.
I have looked around and most people suggest do ceiling then trim then wall with sprayer in that order. But if I am only doing trim then my thought is to do walls first then tape off walls and ceiling and finish with spraying the trim work. I really want to avoid cutting in, so I thought I could brush to cut in and not be very careful...if I get a little on the trim work then so be it because will later spray over it. Does this sound reeasonable? Wall is going to be satin and trim will be semi gloss. 
Oh..and I ordered a 310 and a 510 tip in FFLP. Figured those would be good. I do have doors to paint, so figured the 510 would be good there.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Update:

Now that we have closed on the house I looked more closely and ceilings might need to be done. 

1-spraying ceilings as opposed to rolling appear to be worth it. Comments? Is it because ceiling paint is flat and will generally not show streaks or overlaps as badly?

2-order of work - I was thinking spray ceiling without too much worry of taping off trim or walls, then roll walls without too much worry of going right up to trim and getting some on there. Then tape off ceiling and walls and spray the trim. This order makes sense to me because of sheen. Ceiling is flat, walls are satin and trim is semi-gloss. I am thinking that if flat or satin gets on trim then not a big deal, but if semi gets on wall then it will flash terribly. Again..thoughts?

3- Anybody have updates on the FFLP tips after using them?

As a reminder house is empty and this is my first spray job.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

On new construction I always spray the finish paint on the ceilings but roll the walls. Using a quality paint there generally isn't any issue covering the ceiling paint overspray on the walls. _I don't like tape!_ especially when used over fresh paint as pulling the tape has a tendency to remove the uncured paint.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Nik G said:


> Update:
> 
> Now that we have closed on the house I looked more closely and ceilings might need to be done.
> 
> ...




I used one the other day. Used less than half the paint I expected to.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

BIG Johnson said:


> I used one the other day. Used less than half the paint I expected to.



How does the speed of application compare to a regular tip of the same size?
Probably a moot point since I'm retired but I am curious.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

mark sr said:


> How does the speed of application compare to a regular tip of the same size?
> Probably a moot point since I'm retired but I am curious.


It was fast. I was spraying PC and that stuff is thin. I have to prime some trim next week so I'll try it with primer. Overspray in the air was definitely down from a regular FF tip. 

I'd like to try it with SW wall and wood primer. I've had problems spraying that in the past.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

After my first botched attempt, caused by not changing the tip seat, I tried again with the FFLP tips. This time it was a 518 that I used to spray ceilings. 

It did create an even fan at lower pressure as advertised, but that's not the whole story. I've sprayed many ceilings in unoccupied and occupied homes over the years. 

This was an occupied home where we were doing the ceilings (popcorn) only. What I noticed was the bounce back overspray with the FFLP tip was staying partially wet instead of drying to dust like I'm used to. 

I did a comparison of the FFLP tip and a regular tip. This was the result on cardboard; 










The top pattern was the FFLP at about 800 psi. Not enough to totally get rid of the tails. The middle one is the FFLP at 1,100 PSI and the bottom one a regular Titan tip at the same pressure. 

That test produced results pretty close to the picture examples you see in the Graco advertisements. It certainly did break up the outer lines at a lower pressure than a regular tip. 

Problem was the bounce back overspray droplets were larger than I'm used to seeing, and didn't dry to dust immediately like they do with a regular tip. 

I can normally spray ceilings at 2,000-2,5000 psi and count on the overspray in the room being dust only. That wasn't the case with the new tips, even at half the pressure. 

I saw large droplets of half wet overspray settling on the top of the switch plates and baseboard where it's usually just dust. 

Compare how the overspray on the masking paper looks. 

A regular tip; 









And a FFLP tip; 









The edge lines are gone in the second pic, but see how much more overspray there is down onto the paper? 

And like I mentioned the overspray from the FFLP tip settled on surfaces under it and half way stuck rather than just being dust like I'm used to. 

I was really excited when these came out. I hope the problems I'm seeing so far are a result of incorrect usage. 

If I can't do better with them than I did last time, I'll have to forgo using them for large applications like ceilings in favor of regular tips. 

My Graco rep warned me not to over pressurize the new tips or they would actually produce more overspray than regular tips. IDK if 1,100 PSI is considered over pressurizing for a 518 orifice size, but there was definitely more overspray than I'm used to seeing. 

I'm going to keep trying to figure them out, but so far I'm rather disappointed with this new tech. 


Edit: Edge lines in the spray pattern aren't nearly as big of a deal, as far the final result is concerned, when spraying popcorn or other textured ceilings as it is when spraying smooth finish ceilings. Edge lines can stick out like a sore thumb on a smooth ceiling. Not so much on popcorn and texture.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Sounds like there is still mixed reaction and experience with the new tips. Seems to me that using the older style 515 tip that came with the machine would still be a good choice for spraying ceiling.

Any comments on the order of work? Spray ceiling no tape, roll walls no tape and then tape off ceiling and wall for spray on the trim.

As for tape I will let the paint dry completely before using blue tape. I have never had a problem with it lifting paint


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

IMO a 5/15 tip is too small for ceilings. I've always used a 5/17 or even a 5/21 tip on ceilings. I've always considered a 4/15 tip one for doors or exterior siding. BUT a lot depends on the size of the pump and the user's experience!

If I was to spray it all, I'd spray the ceiling first, then the stand up woodwork. On the walls I'd cut them in to the ceiling and then use a shield when spraying the walls, mask off the woodwork.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

JMay you said earlier to be sure to change the seat for the LP tip. Do you need to change it back for a regular tip?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> JMay you said earlier to be sure to change the seat for the LP tip. Do you need to change it back for a regular tip?




I would imagine so. The orifice size on the FFLP seats is about half as big as you can see here, 










Regular tip seat on the left, and the FFLP one on the right. 

I used two different sets of ears in my testing. Didn't try using a regular tip with the new seat so I can't say first hand what effect that might have. 


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

What's curious about it to me is how the smaller orifice size could actually result in larger droplets of overspray. 

The tip did perform as advertised in that it reduced edge lining at a much lower pressure. But there was a drawback in the nature of the overspray produced. 




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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

The tips used on a Graco Truecoat Pro II handheld sprayer are maybe .010" bigger hole than the FFLP. I've used RAC X tips in a modified tip guard with no problems. I have a couple of the FFLP tips but haven't tried them at all and some FF tips which I tried only once but don't even remember the results!

The seals used on that handheld have an "O" ring for sealing unlike the FFLP ones.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

WOW...just tried the FFLP tip and a huge difference!
My sprayer came with a 515 black tip (RAC IV I think) and I had the pressure turned all the way up for ceiling paint but it still left fingers. Tried painting a few ceilings but got dicouraged because they looked awful. Ordered a 516 FFLP and ran the same paint through it at the lowest recommended spray pressure setting on the X7 and no fingers at all. Tip seemed to flow less material as well. For an amateur this tip worked out MUCH better for me because I could work a little slower and the edges of the pattern feathered instead of having harsh fingers. 
By the way...slower wasnt really slow. A ceiling that would have taken my wife and I a solid hour to paint two coats with rollers was done in 5 minutes.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Nik G said:


> WOW...just tried the FFLP tip and a huge difference!
> My sprayer came with a 515 black tip (RAC IV I think) and I had the pressure turned all the way up for ceiling paint but it still left fingers. Tried painting a few ceilings but got dicouraged because they looked awful. Ordered a 516 FFLP and ran the same paint through it at the lowest recommended spray pressure setting on the X7 and no fingers at all. Tip seemed to flow less material as well. For an amateur this tip worked out MUCH better for me because I could work a little slower and the edges of the pattern feathered instead of having harsh fingers.
> By the way...slower wasnt really slow. A ceiling that would have taken my wife and I a solid hour to paint two coats with rollers was done in 5 minutes.


What paint did you use?


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Paint was nothing special. Behr premium ceiling paint from Home Depot. I know it is not the best paint, but the FFLP tip made all the difference in the world.
I just finished priming a whole bunch of walls with regular PVA primer and again used the FFLP 516 tip. Had it on lowest pressure and there were no fingers at all. I really like the tip.
I do have a 517 RAC V tip that I bought but have not used. Was going to use that on exterior in the fall...but now I am thinking I might just order another FFLP 516 for the job.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

What type of siding does your exterior have? I usually use a 5/17 for interior walls/ceilings and a 4/15 for exterior wood siding. I'll use a 5/17 [or larger] for masonry exteriors. 

Why not use the same tip you just bought on the exterior? they wear out but not that quick.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Mark Sr - I have cement board exterior. 
I guess I could use the same tip. How quickly do they wear out? By the time I get to the exterior I will have put about 25-30 gallons through the tip at relatively low pressure.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've never used the low pressure tips but a regular spray tip is good for 100's of gallons. You can tell when a tip is getting worn by the increased amount of paint it pumps thru and the spray pattern won't be as nice.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

OK..sounds like i should probably be OK with that one tip then. Supposedly the FFLP tips are supposed to last longer because they use lower pressure. As I said before I am running it at the lowest recommended spray pressure on my machine with no fingers in the pattern. I can only assume this will extend the life of the tip as well as the other components in the rig such as the pump, seals etc.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Nik G said:


> Paint was nothing special. Behr premium ceiling paint from Home Depot. I know it is not the best paint, but the FFLP tip made all the difference in the world.
> I just finished priming a whole bunch of walls with regular PVA primer and again used the FFLP 516 tip. Had it on lowest pressure and there were no fingers at all. I really like the tip.
> I do have a 517 RAC V tip that I bought but have not used. Was going to use that on exterior in the fall...but now I am thinking I might just order another FFLP 516 for the job.


Did you strain it first?

I tried to use a 513 with a modified Graco hand held to use RAC X tips which I've used with other exterior latex paints with Behr Extreior Primer in One latex and it just kept on plugging up, tried a 515 with the same results. I had to switch to a HVLP turbine which I had setup to work with the Graco pressure pot backpack as I was pressed for time.

Straining first "probably" would have solved the problem.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

I did not strain the paint first. I have been cleaning out the sprayer with every use and notice that the screen inside the gun handle has some gunk in it to varying degrees. Actually, I just used the sprayer with a FFLP310 tip to spray some baseboard and casings with semi gloss white and the screen had far more junk in it this time. Maybe this paint could benefit from straining.

I got the FFLP 310 and 510 tips to spray cabinets, trim and doors with semi gloss white. I have seen others say the 10 is too small for latex paint, but honestly it seems to flow out plenty fast. Will using a small orifice with latex somehow ruin the tip or accelerate the wear more than a larger opening? I did add some Floetrol thinking the paint might be too thick, but I think I will just skip it next time. I dont know if the opening recommendations are just a speed thing, but I would rather use a slower rate...I really don't think it is slow at all.


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## Nik G (May 28, 2017)

Also -- any reason not to use FFLP on walls whether interior or exterior? I have seen some say that the FF tips are for finish work...but why is that? If they just provide a smoother finish to the final work then I really dont mind. Is there any reason why I should not use the FFLP tip for spraying the exterior of my house when that time comes around. I have cement board


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Some paints need straining more than others. It's normal for the filters to catch debris but if there is enough to either plug the filters or pass thru to the tip - the paint should have been strained. Old paint should always be strained.

I rarely use Floetrol when spraying as there is rarely a need for it. I don't think I've ever used a tip smaller than a 4/13 with latex paint. 



> spraying the exterior of my house .......... I have cement board


Can you further explain this? Is it stucco over cement board?


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

ALWAYS strain your paint. FFLP 310 is perfect for inside trim, or even outside trim, if you're spraying fascia and gutters, doors, or soffits when the body is a different color. IMO, though for an outside horizontally sided house body I'd skip the LP tips, and use a regular 413. This is just so you dont end up applying too thin of a coat. If you spray too 'fine' of a coat, it'll look great wet, and dry streaky. If you put it on good the first time, and do double wet coats, it'll look a lot better. This is assuming it is either a previously painted surface, or primed. Hardyboard should be primed (not factory primed) before topcoated. If it is vertically sided, however, I put a much bigger tip on, like a 517, spray it and backroll it, and maybe spray another light coat for coverage. I should put it out there, that I am of the 'spray one good topcoat' on walls and exteriors camp.'

Same with inside walls and ceilings. Forget the LP and spray that paint on there good. On interior walls , I usually use a 619, or at least a 517 if it has been previously painted. It is only on rare occasions that I will spray walls a different color after the ceiling has been painted, but if I were to do that, I would consider an LP 412 tip. Of course, I haven't actually tried the bigger sized LP tips yet. I may change my mind.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

mark sr said:


> Can you further explain this? Is it stucco over cement board?


He probably means Hardyplank.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Nik G said:


> I did not strain the paint first. I have been cleaning out the sprayer with every use and notice that the screen inside the gun handle has some gunk in it to varying degrees. Actually, I just used the sprayer with a FFLP310 tip to spray some baseboard and casings with semi gloss white and the screen had far more junk in it this time. Maybe this paint could benefit from straining.
> 
> I got the FFLP 310 and 510 tips to spray cabinets, trim and doors with semi gloss white. I have seen others say the 10 is too small for latex paint, but honestly it seems to flow out plenty fast. Will using a small orifice with latex somehow ruin the tip or accelerate the wear more than a larger opening? I did add some Floetrol thinking the paint might be too thick, but I think I will just skip it next time. I dont know if the opening recommendations are just a speed thing, but I would rather use a slower rate...I really don't think it is slow at all.


Floetrol doesn't thin the paint, it slows the drying time, use water to thin.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Nik G said:


> Also -- any reason not to use FFLP on walls whether interior or exterior? I have seen some say that the FF tips are for finish work...but why is that? If they just provide a smoother finish to the final work then I really dont mind. Is there any reason why I should not use the FFLP tip for spraying the exterior of my house when that time comes around. I have cement board


My spraying idol in another forum who sprays some jobs using a 1,000 gallons sometimes just sprayed a large ceiling area using a FFLP 412 tip on a Graco X19. Graco only sells a FFLP 512 tip as the widest fan size which isn't much of a gain.

This was a high ceiling and a pole gun used.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

a 512 is wider, but it spits the same volume of paint out as a 412. That'd be great for applying the same color (like an apartment repaint), or certain commercial repaints but you sure as hell wouldnt want that on new drywall. It'd take longer than a roller.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

woodco said:


> a 512 is wider, but it spits the same volume of paint out as a 412. That'd be great for applying the same color (like an apartment repaint), or certain commercial repaints but you sure as hell wouldnt want that on new drywall. It'd take longer than a roller.


I understand that GPM rate is based on the .012" orifice size.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes. a 212 and a 612 would theoretically pass the same amount of paint in a given time, but the 612 would be much wider, and a VERY fine spray. Great for oils, or cabinets. I use 410's for cabinets myself.


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