# Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit



## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Im in the process of wireing a 50X100' shop. I have a 220v circuit that runs from the circuit box across the shop to a small 6 gallon hot water heater. It is wired with two hot wires (red and black) and a green grnd wire. I would like to pick up this circuit on the far side of the shop and also make it available to energize a 220v receptacle which I can use for my 40 amp welder. To be certain that the hot water heater does not kick on while Im using the welder, I would like to interupt the circuit to the water heater with a a single pole switch. Is this a dumb thing to do and if not, how does one wire a 220v single pole switch to make this work? 

Also, I hired an electrician to hang and wire halogen lights in the shop using 22Ov circuits. I wanted the shop wired in three zones so I wouldnt have to have all the lights on at the same time. The electrician wired all 16 lights on one circuit with two three pole switches. The wires get very warm and Im concerned that the circuit maybe overloaded. Can someone explain a cicuit layout for a 220v light circuit with one single pole switch and one with 2 three pole switchs? My building is steel and I have been running all circuits in 3/4 inch conduit. 

ONe last question - When one wires a 220v circuit by connecting each hot wire to it own 20 amp circuit breaker, is the circuit considered a 20 amp or 40 amp circuit. When connecting the hot wires, one to each pole on double pole 40 amp circuit breaker is this considered a 220v 40 amp circuit?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

rlmorgan said:


> Im in the process of wireing a 50X100' shop. I have a 220v circuit that runs from the circuit box across the shop to a small 6 gallon hot water heater. It is wired with two hot wires (red and black) and a green grnd wire. I would like to pick up this circuit on the far side of the shop and also make it available to energize a 220v receptacle which I can use for my 40 amp welder. To be certain that the hot water heater does not kick on while Im using the welder, I would like to interupt the circuit to the water heater with a a single pole switch. Is this a dumb thing to do and if not, how does one wire a 220v single pole switch to make this work?


before I start this comment the shop size is almost the same size my is 30X70 feet with 16 ft ceiling. ( the only diffrence is the voltage I have 480 volt system in there [ it is zoned as commercal ])

Now let get to the topic here.

The small 6 gallon waterheater typically are 1500 watts range and it will useally come either 120 volt{most common for 6 gallon } or 240 volt verison and I suggest that you run this waterheater on it own circuit for codewise and also put a local disconnect switch ( single pole HD toggle switch for 120 v circuits or double pole toggle switch for 240 volt circuit or A/C pullout switch will meet this requirement )

{ side note I will not add the waterheater to the welder circuit for safety reason }



> Also, I hired an electrician to hang and wire halogen lights in the shop using 22Ov circuits. I wanted the shop wired in three zones so I wouldnt have to have all the lights on at the same time. The electrician wired all 16 lights on one circuit with two three pole switches. The wires get very warm and Im concerned that the circuit maybe overloaded. Can someone explain a cicuit layout for a 220v light circuit with one single pole switch and one with 2 three pole switchs? My building is steel and I have been running all circuits in 3/4 inch conduit.


 
What wattage the luminaire you will be using and for myself I will useally stay away from halogens I know they will light up shop ok but they are power hog.

And how high is your ceiling is ??

Typically I used either 250 w or 400 w PSMH { pulse start Metal Halide } luminare and for 240 volt circuit you will limited to 9 { 400's watter} max otherwise you will have issue with the 20 amp circuit or use the flourscent luminaire may be better suited for your shop depending on the ceiling height.

Yes you can run the luminaries in sections by using the three way switches but a trick is add a contractor { magatic switch } check with your electrician to see if he like the idea { you may understand why i rather go this route if you want the three way functions }




> ONe last question - When one wires a 220v circuit by connecting each hot wire to it own 20 amp circuit breaker, is the circuit considered a 20 amp or 40 amp circuit. When connecting the hot wires, one to each pole on double pole 40 amp circuit breaker is this considered a 220v 40 amp circuit?


a 20 amp breaker is 20 amp circuit and 40 amp breaker is a 40 amp circuit.

they are not addtive at all.,, so if you have two pole breakers it will stay the same as single pole breaker so like 20 amp on one pole and 20 amp on other pole it will stay 20 amp.

the other tip for ya is make sure you bring plenty 120 volt circuit for receptale and do plan this ahead so it will be much easier down the road when ya get this all hook up.


If ya have more question just Holler we will help ya 

Merci,Marc


Here what typical low/high bay flourscent luminaire look like http://www.alumen-8.com/images/fixturepics/highlow/el8w246hue.jpg



this what low bay HID look like http://www.ruudlighting.com/images/industrial_series.jpg


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

*wiring a 240V single pole switch*

Marc, Thanks for responding so quickly. My shop has 16 foot eves and the ridge is approximately 20.5 feet high. I am using metal Halide HID luminaires. I have three different kinds of fixtures.

2 each low bay fixtures that are wired for 120v at 400Watts The only amperage I can find on these two fixtures is 1.0 amp at 480v. I would assume that 120v amperage is probably 4amp. 

8 each high bay 250 watt fixtures that maybe wired at at 120/208/240/277V The amperage is 2.6/1.5/1.3/1.2 respectively. 

both of these fixtures maybe hung in damp locations and are rated at 55 degrees C. None of the above fixtures have been hung. 

The 16 fixtures that have been hung are Cooper lights rated and 90 degrees C. They are 400 watt fixtures and are wired/hung at 240V/2 amps. They can be wired for 120V at 4 amps. 

Correction on the water heater its a 30 gallon water heater wired at 240v on a 40 amp circuit. Im guessing that it has two elements in it as there is an upper lower and total rating of 3800/2855 which I think must be amperage usage of each element. I have 3 each 240V HD single pole switches. Will one of these work for a local disconnet on the water heater?

I understand you to say that it is not safe to use the hot water circuit jointly for my welder which I conclude means run a new circuit for the welder alone. My electrician pulled number 10 wire for all of the 40 amp circuits. Is this the correct size of wire. He has left the area but after hearing numerous complaints from a number of his customers after I used him, Im not confident that I can trust what he did in my shop.


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

rlmorgan said:


> The 16 fixtures that have been hung are Cooper lights rated and 90 degrees C. They are 400 watt fixtures and are wired/hung at 240V/2 amps.


2A * 16 fixtures = 32A. #10 wire is rated for 30A... Moving the lights to 3 separate switches / circuits is a good plan.



rlmorgan said:


> My electrician pulled number 10 wire for all of the 40 amp circuits. Is this the correct size of wire.


40A circuits should be run with #8 wire.

Also, I believe that welders (depending upon the type) require a heavier gauge of wire than regular branch circuits (NEC 630). Probably an electrician will jump in here with specifics.. I'm not 100% clear on the requirement.

I'm not sure if a water heater is considered a continuous or non-continuous load. If it's continuous, you would have to put it on a separate circuit (or upgrade the circuit for 90A).



rlmorgan said:


> I have 3 each 240V HD single pole switches. Will one of these work for a local disconnet on the water heater?


A single pole switch wired to either hot lead going to your HW heater would turn it off when opened, *however* I it's code (and safer) that you use a double pole switch. The switch would have to carry the same rating as the circuit (40A). But your wiring should be upgraded on that circuit to #8 to match the breaker and load of the HW heater.


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks Scott, I was afraid you were going to say the 40 amp circuits needs to be run on a no. 8 wire. Thats probably why the wires for my light circuit get so warm. If #8 wire is what I need for a 40 amp circuit, then #10 must be for a 30 amp and #12 must be for a 20 amp and #14 must be for a 15amp. Using a single pole switch for a 220 amp circuit allows me to interrupt the circuit on only one of the hot wires. I havent looked at a two pole switch but I assume that a two pole will allow me to interrupt both hot leads on a 220 circuit. I should have been able to figure that out but I wasnt able to find any HD 2 pole switches at home depot or Lowes. Just single and three pole. Based on your input it looks like Im going to have to rewire my lights to work on three or four zones and keep the amperage down below 30 amps a circuit. especially if Im going to add the other 10 lights. I probably ought to shoot my electrician while I am at it!


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> If #8 wire is what I need for a 40 amp circuit, then #10 must be for a 30 amp and #12 must be for a 20 amp and #14 must be for a 15amp.


Yep. (Assuming the wire runs are not overly long -- the longer the run the more the resistance of the wire, the larger the voltage drop at the end. I think you're probably OK unless the wire snakes all over your ceiling from light to light.. And putting the lights on 3 circuits only makes you better off there, too).



> Using a single pole switch for a 220 amp circuit allows me to interrupt the circuit on only one of the hot wires.


Yep. But it's not safe b/c the switch can be open but there's still a hot lead going to the device/receptacle/whatever.. It can lead to the assumption that the power is off completely. Note that it wouldn't work on a 4-wire appliance, because something in the appliance can still be powered from the non-switched hot -> neutral.



> I havent looked at a two pole switch but I assume that a two pole will allow me to interrupt both hot leads on a 220 circuit. I should have been able to figure that out but I wasnt able to find any HD 2 pole switches at home depot or Lowes.


That's right. I don't know if Lowes or HD would have a 30 or 40A double pole, but I'm surprised they didn't have 15 or 20A. Leviton (and others) make a wide range though, and you can definitely find 'em online or at an electrical supply house.



> I probably ought to shoot my electrician while I am at it!


Or at least make him fix it??


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Half the lights are as much as 100 to 1050 feet from the Circuit box. What is considered an overly long run. Im now thinking of converting all the lighting to 120V and putting no more than 6 lights on each circuit setting them up on 30 amp circuits. The most amperage I would carry on any one light circuit would be 24 amps. That means I would have to go to at least four zones and probably 5 if I put as many lights as I want hung in the shop.


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> 100 to 1050


I'm guessing that's "100 to 150", right? 



> What is considered an overly long run.


Depends on the load applied to the circuit; but like I said, probably not an issue if you're separating the lights to different circuits. Right now you're running over capacity, so I guess 1 ft is too long.  Any sarcasm aside, I'm not really sure how to derate your wires properly -- I'm not a pro electrician, but maybe one can jump in here?



> Im now thinking of converting all the lighting to 120V and putting no more than 6 lights on each circuit setting them up on 30 amp circuits. The most amperage I would carry on any one light circuit would be 24 amps. That means I would have to go to at least four zones and probably 5 if I put as many lights as I want hung in the shop.


Sounds reasonable.. If 4-5 zones is too many, you can always keep one or 2 circuits @ 240V to accommodate more fixtures @ 30A. I guess you want to cut back to 120V so you don't need double pole breakers and switches? Save panel space and $? Can't argue with that..


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

I really strongly do not go this route with 120 v 30 amp circuit the code is pretty spefic on this one 

espcally true with HID's { belive me I done this all the time with large commercal / Industrail complexs }

you will end up using more wires and circuits for genral lighting circuit at 120 v than what you can do on 240 volt circuits.


I will give you a example how I dealt with this and been sucessfull with alot of my customers

If this building do have service doors on both end all you need just one circuit that wired for 3 way's that circuit you can used with flourscent luminaire something like over workbench or in few spots where you can able turn them on pretty fast instead of waiting quite few minutes for the HIDs to warm up { you know how long to get them back on when someone say opps hit wrong switch :huh::whistling2:}

For the HID's just a standard double pole toggle switch will do the task or otherwise you can use the breaker as switch due most breaker manufacters do allready listed them as switching duty but somecase will marked HID breaker { if you going to use them as switching }
Otherwise doublepole switch will do the task for reasonable set up so you can able turn on the luminaires as need to.

You can have them in 3 or 4 sections depending on the layout.

Mine shop have 4 circuit for the HID's due I can able finetune as I needed to { plus they are HI/Low set up as well }

Now next step I am glad you speak up about the waterheater with 30 gallon size for 3800 watt element typically can use #10 wire with either 25 or 30 amp breaker. Do not use the single pole switch on the 240 volt waterheater for safety reason due when you turn off the switch all you are doing is disconnect one leg and other leg is still alive and if you work on it. in worst case senicero., someone will get hurt pretty bad or kill from this. that why a double pole switch or nonfused disconnect switch or A/C pullout disconnection device.
All three items I mention are approved methold to safety disconnect the power in correct and safe codewise with it.




> 2 each low bay fixtures that are wired for 120v at 400Watts The only amperage I can find on these two fixtures is 1.0 amp at 480v. I would assume that 120v amperage is probably 4amp.


 It is correct as long you have multi tap ballast yes it can be switchable but if only single voltage you may want to open up the ballast housing to verify if that is a single voltage ballast or see the numbers of lead { wires } comming out of the luminaires they will marked " COM " common 120, 208, 240, 277 somecase you will see the 5th one is 480 volts.
The latter two { 277 and 480 } is useally resvered for commercal / industrail electrical system.

If you verify it and it is a single voltage ballast there is two choice you can do is change the ballast or get new luminaire.

The other thing you have to be aware with the 400 watt luminaire that if it wired for 120 volts you are only allowed 4 on 20 amp circuit.

If have more questions just holler here

Merci,Marc


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> I really strongly do not go this route with 120 v 30 amp circuit the code is pretty spefic on this one
> 
> espcally true with HID's { belive me I done this all the time with large commercal / Industrail complexs }
> 
> you will end up using more wires and circuits for genral lighting circuit at 120 v than what you can do on 240 volt circuits.


Marc, I'm sure you are right, but I just want to know for my own benefit why 120V with HIDs is wrong in this case? I mean, providing that rlmorgan wants to divide the lights onto different circuits. I see your logic, obviously 240V would allow 2x as many lights as 120V for the same Amps, but if he wants less than half as many lights per circuit anyway, what's the harm in 120V?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

ScottR said:


> Marc, I'm sure you are right, but I just want to know for my own benefit why 120V with HIDs is wrong in this case? I mean, providing that rlmorgan wants to divide the lights onto different circuits. I see your logic, obviously 240V would allow 2x as many lights as 120V for the same Amps, but if he wants less than half as many lights per circuit anyway, what's the harm in 120V?


 
ScottR.,,

There is noting wrong to run the HID's on 120v circuit but it depending on the wattage of the luminarie and keep in your mind if this building have all 400 w MH's and they draw 4 amp each at 120 volts

Like example I know 60X60 building with 22 ft ceiling that took in total of 30 - 400 w MH's and this building did have wired for 120 volts result of 10 circuit set up { the customer want little more finetune control } really 8 circuit will serve just fine most case but with 8 circuit you can see why the numbers of wires it have to be pulled thruout the building set up.

IIRC it used about 800ish feet of #12's THHN/THWN

Now try this with 240 volt the amout of circuits drop down to 5 circuit and the amout of wire and conduit drop down a bit more like 500ish feet

You can see why with very large building normally I will wire up the HID and flourscent luminaire on highest voltage if they have.

In case if you ever see in some of big box store and wally world luminaires ?? they are wired on 277 volts so they have more luminarie per circuit that will add up saving pretty fast.

Merci,Marc


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks Marc! I think we're on the same page.. :thumbup:


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks to both Marc and Scott, 
I see Marc's point about saving costs if I stay with 30 amp 240 volt circuits. One thing for certain, I will be able to use the #10 wire that has already been pulled and by using a 240V circuit I can add more lights in areas where I may need more than 6 HID lights. A 30 amp 240V circuit would let me put as many 12 HID lights on one circuit. 2amps X 12 = 24 amps. I might be able to go one more light but no sense pushing the limit any more than that. I plan to use 1/3 of the shop for wood working so I would like to have as much light in that quadrant of the shop as I can get. Old eyes if you know what I mean. Very glad to hear that the #10 wire running to the water heater is ok and I will be sure to use a Two pole switch for the diconnect. 

I also understand what you mean when your talking about waiting for the HIDs to come on and have been running 120v circuits and hanging flourescent lights over my work benches. I think that should keep my electric costs down when Im only working at the bench. No need to light the whole shop. 

Thanks also for the discussion on the Low Bay lights, I will see if I can convert them to 240 volts. If I have questions after I pop them open, I'll put the questions to you guys in this forum. 

After our discussions Ive decided to pull #8 wire for my welder receptacles. Starting that circuit at the circuit box located in center of the shop should keep the run to each receptacle at no more than 85 feet. 

Marc, I dont follow what you are saying with this comments "IIRC it used about 800ish feet of #12's THHN/THWN" . An I dont understand what a Hi/Low set up is. Would you provide futhrer clarification of these comments please?

Again thanks to both of you for all the help. 

Sincerely 
Rick


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Scott, Id love to make my electrician help me fix these light circuits but he moved about 900 miles west. I think he got out when the getting was good!


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

Rick, no prob, glad to help!



> Very glad to hear that the #10 wire running to the water heater is ok and I will be sure to use a Two pole switch for the diconnect.


Just wanted to clarify.. without looking back at the post, I think you said you have a 40A breaker on the water heater circuit? If so, you should downgrade it to 30A. The WH draws < 30A, so you should be OK with that.

BTW - Very jealous of your shop. I'm moving up from no shop to a 1-car garage, so I guess I'm going in the right direction.. Ah well, c'est la vie. :wink:


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> Scott, Id love to make my electrician help me fix these light circuits but he moved about 900 miles west. I think he got out when the getting was good!


He should be easy to find.. just follow the melted wires.. :laughing:


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Right, I forgot about that. I be sure to replace that circuit breaker. When I finally get the shop put together, I'll send some pics. Good talking to you.


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Good one :laughing:


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

rlmorgan said:


> Marc, I dont follow what you are saying with this comments "IIRC it used about 800ish feet of #12's THHN/THWN" . An I dont understand what a Hi/Low set up is. Would you provide futhrer clarification of these comments please?
> 
> Sincerely
> Rick


 Sure Rick i can able explain more the reason why i say 800ish it mean about 800 feet or so of THHN/THWN conductor { wire } that is basied on lighting circuit not for genral receptale circuit at all if I did add receptale circuit it will be much higher than that.


The Hi/Low set up it mean I have dual wattage ballast system in there so on high postion the light will be running at full 400 watt and when i want to dim it down it will drop down about 180 or so watt each kinda like a dimmer { it program to come on high for first 15 min after that it can stay on high postion or I can switch over to low mode } those ballast useally are specal order item but I got from one of the large commercal jobsite where they order too many and got a deal from them.


Now my main condersation you mention 30 amp circuit it don't matter if you have it wired on 120 volt or 240 volts most HID ballast have very strict guideline for circuit protection normally for most run of mill ballast without fuse must be protected no more than 20 amp breaker unless it got fused in the ballast then you can able load it more { this useally not a common pratice but this done alot in large industrail sites or large parking lot luminaires as well }and there is a code section mention about the lighting circuit as well, I have to dig up that artile to make sure it right.

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Marc, 
So your saying that I should reduce my circuit amperage to 20 amps. That will still allow me to put as many as 8 to possibly 9 lights on each circuit as long I keep the voltage at 240V. Since we have already pulled #10 through the light circuit, I don't any reason to remove it and pull #12. Do you?

Also, I don't understand what IIRC is. Is it a term used to describe a type of rigid conduit?


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> Since we have already pulled #10 through the light circuit, I don't any reason to remove it and pull #12.


I'll let Marc confirm the other part, but you can certainly put a 20A breaker on #10 wire.. You can never go wrong with a smaller breaker than what the wire is rated for. Well, the only "wrong" part is that #10 is more expensive than #12. Probably not worth your time to change it out though.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

ScottR. and Rlmorgan. ,,

Let me explain little more clearer here.

Rlmorgan I am sorry I did misread it that you _allready_ pulled #10 that fine with that set up and just use the 20 amp breakers and make a note on the conductor itself so in the future someone else don't get this mixed up being thought it is a 30 amp circuit.

Yes it is common to upsize the wire for long distance to prevent voltage drop.

The word IIRC mean If I Recall Correct that is a avberatted words .,, sorry for mix up and get this straght here :thumbsup:.

Rlmorgan yes you can run many as 9 on 20 amp breaker.

For all the readers.,,

Let me clearify a detail here with the HID's and Flourscent luminaires.

To determed how much you can load them up we don't go by lamp wattage. 
Go with the ballast amp { some case wattage } that will reflect the correct load reading on the lighting circuits.

I will give you a quick example here
Run of mill 400 w Pulse Start Metal Halide luminaire 
sure we do know 400 watt bulb but you have to add ballast to the load figures so the actual wattage will be about 450~460 watt range dependign on the type of ballast. 

that can really get ya by suprise with this espcally if the HID do have aux lightbulb in there 

( A halogen bulb is used during either cold start up or restrike mode so you will have some light until the HID bulb start up and get over certen % of brightenss then it will run on HID itself)

Some commercal and Industrail luminaire do have this option so it can really screw up the load figures if not carefull.

Hope this will clear up few details what ya looking for.

Oh yeah.,, 

The other thing at the switch location when you use the #10's make sure you get deepwell switch box due the wire size and they can be pretty stiff when ya try to push it in the box.

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for the tip on the deep well boxes. The MH lights that I already have hanging do have the aux light bulb in them. So I need to figure the wattage based upon light bulb (400W), ballast (60W) and aux light (?W). Do you know what the wattage is on these type of lights and can you tell me how many watts are equal to 1 amp?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

For the Aux bulb they useally either 100 or 150 or 250 watt quatz bulb depending of type of luminarie but most common is latter two { either 150 and 250'ers }

To add aux watts to the main ballast wattage here you should do is get 450 watts + 250 watts = 700 watt *

* It will depending on what size aux bulb it can affect or you can disconnect the aux circuit and it will not draw any current from that part. 
( most common methold is remove the quatz bulb unless the ballast manufacter stated something else then we will play by ear on this one )

Now how many of them you have there ? if only few then you can have each one on per circuits otherwise you will overload the circuit from my orignal figures.

to figures watts here what you do is 

A { amp } X V {voltage } = watts 

Like example 

10A X 240 v = 2400 watts 

or 

20A X 120v = 2400 watts 

As you can see above when I add up ballast and aux bulb it will affect the circuit capitcy so with aux units you only may end up having 5 luminaire on 240 volt circuit or 3 on 120 v circuit this basied on 20 amp circuit.

That part it may change your layout a bit.

Merci,Marc


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

> To determed how much you can load them up we don't go by lamp wattage. Go with the ballast amp { some case wattage } that will reflect the correct load reading on the lighting circuits.


Just wanted to clarify that I think we were talking in the right terms before.. in an earlier post Rick said:



> They are 400 watt fixtures and are wired/hung at 240V/2 amps.


So we were talking about load using each fixture as 2A @ 240V and 4A @ 120V.

400W is the bulb rating, and 2A (480W) is the fixture rating, including ballast, etc.. Correct?

Thanks for the details Marc, it is good stuff to know! :thumbup:


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

My and Marc's last posts crossed, so I hadn't seen this...



> To add aux watts to the main ballast wattage here you should do is get 450 watts + 250 watts = 700 watt *
> 
> * It will depending on what size aux bulb it can affect or you can disconnect the aux circuit and it will not draw any current from that part.
> ( most common methold is remove the quatz bulb unless the ballast manufacter stated something else then we will play by ear on this one )


Ouch, that can make a big diff...


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Wow! Major difference!! I think all the lights I have hanging have the aux light. That makes my current configuration of 16 lamps, 3 more lights than I should have. Worse yet the circuit is run with a #10 conductor. I'm probably lucky that I haven't had a fire yet.

Going with 20A 240V circuit will only allow me to put 6 lights on each circuit. If I need more lighting on a circuit I can just pull the aux light and that will give 250W per light back. That would let me hang up to 9 lights on a circuit. That should be more than enough in each area. 

Thanks for the heads up Marc. Without that info, I would have screwed up there. :thumbup:

Rick


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

I just got back from the lumber yard where I was looking for a 2 pole 240V 20A toggle switch. They don,t carry them. I did find what they call a 4 way which looks like what I think I should be using. But, their 4 ways are only rated for 120V 15A circuits. Is a 2 pole toggle also called a 4 way toggle?


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

rlmorgan said:


> I just got back from the lumber yard where I was looking for a 2 pole 240V 20A toggle switch. They don,t carry them. I did find what they call a 4 way which looks like what I think I should be using. But, their 4 ways are only rated for 120V 15A circuits. Is a 2 pole toggle also called a 4 way toggle?


No, 4 ways and double poles are different. And I hate to chime in this late in the thread, but a lighting circuit, being considered a continuous load, can only be loaded to 80% of it's rating. So on a 20 A circuit, you can only draw 16 A.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Hey Inphase277.,

I don't mind you join in the bandwagon here.

Rlmorgen In case you wondering why i say 9 luminaire { without aux bulb } on 240 v circuit due I allready derated to 80% rating of 20 amp circuit.

Ditto with 120 volt circuits { they are only limited to 4 sans aux or 2 or 3 with aux }


Now for the 4 way switch .,, No you can not use this on 240 volt circuit it will short it out.

You need to look at the label little closer extreally both 4way's and double pole switch look same but interal .,, no it is not the same.

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

OK, No 4 ways --- Must actually be a 2 pole 240V 20A switch -- and keep the light count down to no more than 9 however 8 would be best. 

Will do

Thanks to all of you for the great advice, recommendations and for keeping me out of trouble. I really appreciate the help.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

If you have smaller HID's like 250 w MH then you can have more on per circuit.

It all depend on sum of the total wattage on that circuit reguarding of size of luminaires.

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

I do have two 250w low bay lights that I plan to put in the woodshop zone if I can convert them to 240V. I'll just make certain that the total wattage of each circuit is 80% or less of the 4800W (240V x 20amp). Thanks again Marc.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Sure No problem at all I am gald to help ya with it.

For myself when I order the HID's not all of them do have aux light in there at all for two obvous reason.,,

• cost for ballast with aux connection typically more than straight HID luminaire.

• Current useage on the circuit.

Most place with large #'s of HID luminaires I useally keep small percentage with quatz standby { aux light } on hand but spread out so it will not really load up the circuit much.

The most common methold I useally done is get a flourscent luminaire or 2 in few spots that serve few purpose 

• instat start up 

• do not affect the HID circuit { normally I wired this on sepreated circuit }

• some large building the flourscent luminaires can be used as nightlight or sectury luminare as well.


But useally in the resdentail large shop/ workshop/ garage space where they use the HID I throw in few flourscent luminaires as I mention before.

{ very rare I used with quatz aux lighting system in there unless specal request with it }

Hope your project come out good with it.

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Marc, I found a couple of HD double Pole swictches at a hardware store about 25 miles from my place. they are Pass&Seymour/Legrand Contractor preferred toggle switches they say 30A 120/277VAC the part number is PS30AC2-ICC. Doesnt say anything about 240V on the box anywhere. Would these be ok to use for the hot water heater and the light circuits?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Rlmorgan.,

I did verify the catalog number and yes it is a good to go for 30 amp circuit and it is a true double pole switch.

Most of commercal/ Industrail grade switching device do have a quick indentify switch cover on the front of the switch.

Bleu - 15 amp circuits 

Red - 20 amp circuits 

Green - 30 amp circuit.

The voltage range is from 120 to 277 volts so it will cover the 240 volt circuit without much issue with that and I been using the 20 amp verison all the time on 277 volt circuits no issue.
( there is a specal rule for multi switches in two gang box and larger for 480Y277 system but I will leave this section out for now due it not used in this area )

Merci,Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks Marc, I was hoping you would confirm that the 120/277 covered all voltages in between rather than being restricted to just those two voltages. There is no wiring diagram on the box but I figure that the black wire is wired in on a top lug and out the bottom lug located on the same side. The red is wired the same way on the other side and the ground of course is going to green lug located on bottom center. 

Rick


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Rick.,, 

Normally most I say most double pole switch format work the line go in either top or bottom screw and go out.


like this 

Li 1 ------ Li2

Lo1------- Lo2 

that one way or it will be other way depending on manufacter design 

If you have doubt you can use the ohm meter and ring it out it will tell which way it is 

Merci, Marc


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## rlmorgan (Oct 13, 2008)

Ok Marc, Looks like I'm good to go so I best get to work. Thanks for all the help and advice. 
Rick


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