# termites



## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

I dont know if this is the proper place to post this.. as my question is 2 fold.. partly about termites but also about foundations.

a house im planing on moving into has a lot of termite dmg, infact i've seen termites on at almost every side of the house.

i contacted 2 professional exterminators. the lowest estimate was 1600 but was told it could easily go to 2400 or 2500 after work was started..

neither could give me a guarantee longer then 30days  it's my understanding it can take that long ot get rid of them in the first place.

i researched it and it seems termidor is about the best you can get, well actually you can't get it as it's not sold to the public.. but was able to aquire some on the internet.

and the stuff is'nt cheap, but a lot cheaper then a professional who can't give me any guarantee at all.

form my reading it seems the easiest home owner method of applying termidor is to use a 5 gal bucket to mix.. you dig a 6 inch wide 6 inch deep trench about 3 - 4 inch's from the foundation all the way around the foundation both in and out side the house.

and there is my problem.. the house is very old started as a log cabin and was added on to at least 3 times (previous owners) none of it looks like i was professionally done so the house has a lot of problems other then termites but this is obviously the largest and most house threatening one.

there i a dirt floor under neith, we intend to lay down some 6ml plastic barrior to keep moisture out, another problem is the road has been built up repeatedly where they repave it.. this has lead to a downward slope to the house for which im unsure how to correct, but that is another thread.

anyway the foundation is mostly made up of cinder blocks, the problem here is the blocks seemlying only go down about 1/2 of a block into the ground.. where my understanding it should extend down a couple of feet.

im afraid if i try to dig a trench that close to the foundation that it will undermind the soil they are sitting on.. and that would be very bad.

so i need advice and help from anyone who has applied termidor.. but especially in this sort of conditions.

Thanks in advance.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

To be effective, the termiticide needs to be continuous around the perimeter of the house. Termites like to come up by doors with stoops. They go between the concrete and the foundation until they hit the sill plate/rim joist area. It's still behind the concrete stairs, so you don't see them.
If you have stairs, you will need to drill into them and get the termiticide into the holes so the barrier is continuous.
Another issue you might have is the cinder block foundation. If you don't get the solution deep enough for the interior and exterior applicaton to meet, the termites will come up inside the block.
Here on LI, NY, the applications are drilled in to the ground, not poured.
Not sure why an estimate would vary. Here they charge you by the linear feet of the house perimeter.
Why would your estimate change?
Ron


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## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

hmm interesting i had only heard of the trench and pour technique but it sounds like drilling would be a solution to my problem.. i knew i had to drill the patio slabs.

tell me exactly how would i go about using this drill technique for the dirt? say what kinda bit, how far down, and how far apart? how much per hole? termidor calls for 4 gals for 10 feet length..

any details would be most helpful.


as for the estimate i dont know i think he said it had to do with the crawl space.. there was no access and although we had much of the floor torn up what was left has very little clearance, i'd say 1 - 1 1/2 foot

it does'nt matter i'd have gladly paid 2-2.5k had they offered some sort of guarantee but neither of htem could so i figure i can't do any worse my self.


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## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

ok i tried the "drill" method today.. i did about 20 feet, the ground was soft but not muddy.. i went down 18 inch with a 1inch mason bit.

i used a funnel to try and pour it into the holes.. most of the holes did not want to accept the water, possibly the ground is'nt dry enough but if thats the case i doubt it'll get much more dry this time of the year.

anyway can someone discribe what termidor looks like?

i broke the seal today and seen it for the first time, it was like a thick yellowish liquid had very little if any smell.

when mixing it in a 5gal bucket it foamed up quite a lot like a soap..

did i get legit termidor? the guide on the package said not to breath it but it has no real smell..

just wondering if i got ripped off here.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

When the termite guys drill, they use a 24" long bit and put holes every 12-15" apart. Unless the chemicals connect from hole to hole, the termites will still get in and out of the house.
I have no idea about the chemical's characteristics.
Ron


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## Slobberbone (May 19, 2009)

I suggest you use a professional for this fix. You may have several problems. Not only do you need perimeter protection, but if the soil wasn't properly treated before the additions to the house were made, you could have termite problems between the additions and the original house. Since you have a dirt foundation without much elevation above the ground, it seems, you may have termite infestation anywhere under your house.

If you deal with a reputable company like Terminex or Orkin or perhaps a long-term company in your area, you should be able to discuss the entire problem with them and get an honest answer about how difficult it will be to free your house from termites. It is likely to take more than one treatment until a suitable barrier is established. Even though these companies won't give you a guarantee, they will work with you to solve your problem and will likely give you discounts on future treatments when their efforts aren't entirely successful. You may be dealing with a very difficult problem here.

Termite companies normally pressurize the chemical down into the holes they drill through slabs. This spreads the chemicals between the holes and helps establish the proper barrier. You will not be able to do this yourself just using a funnel.

One of the best termite barrier and killing agents is chlorodane (sic) which has been off the market for many, many years due to environmental and health concerns. I don't believe you will be able to find chemicals of this quality to address your situation, but you should speak with a professional to better understand your options. There could be harsher chemicals available if your problem is severe enough and you exercise proper precautions with children and animals to prevent exposure.


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## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

18inch was as long as i could find, i've been placing them 8 inch apart.. the instructions says never more then 12.

@ Slobberbone, i contacted both those companies and neither could offer a guarantee, the problem is there is no real crawl space access, we have ripped up quite a lot of the floor already, we intend to put down a 6ml moisture barrier before replacing the floor.

getting a 2nd treatment will be very difficult in the interrior, and i've already spent 500 dollars on termidor and thats was a relatively good price, this stuffs not cheap.

this is suppose to be the top termicide you on the market, i can't go looking for chemicals that have long been off the market at this point.

your point about pushing the stuff into the soil though is well taken, i will try to find something for rent.

still it would be helpful if someone could tell me what termidor smells and looks like, you can't buy this stuff in stores just wanna make sure i got the real thing.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

You might want to try a Pest Control forum. Not many people will have experience with this product.
Ron


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## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

ya i searched for DIY because of the foundation situation..

can you recommend a good pest forum for non professionals?

oh btw i'll still have the problem to solve on the slab but it think i found a handy cheap way to pump it into the soil.. i used a syringe type squirt gun i bought form the dollar store last year.. i got like 6 of them for a pool party, anyway i sucked the mixed solution up and shoved it into the hole, then pushed hard on the handle.. it seems to work rather well the ground started to rise and in some cases even seen it bubble to the top a few inchs away.. so i know it must be spreading out somewhat..

cheap solution to that problem still need verification of what it smells and looks like though.


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

O.K. first off if you have purchased Termidor in it's concentrated form and had it shipped to you through mail carrier you are in violation of several federal laws. You must have a valid applicators license to work with it. Any deviation from the label directions is also a violation of law.

You do not have the equipment to properly apply the chemical, the investment in such equipment will be substantial. It affects the nervous system of insects, animals, and humans. This is not a DIY chemical application. If you do so and are caught you will go to jail. They can prosecute you simply for being in possession of it without the proper licensing.

To properly treat for sub-terrain termites you must form a complete barrier around the structure and treat the infested wood. If you have a structure which has wood in contact with the soil no pest control company will warranty the work. The prices for treatment will vary from company to company but they should be able to give you an exact quote as to cost. Anyone telling you it will start at $xxx for a liquid perimeter treatment and go up from there when we start is a scam artist.


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

cpm2009 said:


> Pest control is a vital part of home maintenance. The best way to deal with pests if get a professional pest control done. I am sure they will be of great help. Visit their website for more details.Kudos!


If you want to advertise go to the advertising section. This is not the place to do it.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

ARI001 said:


> O.K. first off if you have purchased Termidor in it's concentrated form and had it shipped to you through mail carrier you are in violation of several federal laws. You must have a valid applicators license to work with it. Any deviation from the label directions is also a violation of law.
> 
> You do not have the equipment to properly apply the chemical, the investment in such equipment will be substantial. It affects the nervous system of insects, animals, and humans. This is not a DIY chemical application. If you do so and are caught you will go to jail. They can prosecute you simply for being in possession of it without the proper licensing.
> 
> To properly treat for sub-terrain termites you must form a complete barrier around the structure and treat the infested wood. If you have a structure which has wood in contact with the soil no pest control company will warranty the work. The prices for treatment will vary from company to company but they should be able to give you an exact quote as to cost. Anyone telling you it will start at $xxx for a liquid perimeter treatment and go up from there when we start is a scam artist.


 
:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## fcmem (May 11, 2009)

ARI001 said:


> O.K. first off if you have purchased Termidor in it's concentrated form and had it shipped to you through mail carrier you are in violation of several federal laws. You must have a valid applicators license to work with it. Any deviation from the label directions is also a violation of law.
> 
> You do not have the equipment to properly apply the chemical, the investment in such equipment will be substantial. It affects the nervous system of insects, animals, and humans. This is not a DIY chemical application. If you do so and are caught you will go to jail. They can prosecute you simply for being in possession of it without the proper licensing.
> 
> To properly treat for sub-terrain termites you must form a complete barrier around the structure and treat the infested wood. If you have a structure which has wood in contact with the soil no pest control company will warranty the work. The prices for treatment will vary from company to company but they should be able to give you an exact quote as to cost. Anyone telling you it will start at $xxx for a liquid perimeter treatment and go up from there when we start is a scam artist.


wow thats such a helpful post.. 

from what i've read it was'nt illegal to obtain, it's company POLICY to only sell termidor to people who have been certified to use it, this is a company policy from my understanding, not federal law.

as far as the mail carrier iirc it came by DHL and was bought from a pest control company as surplus inventory, huh if anyone is in any violation of any kind of shipping laws it's them not me, although i dont think thats the case.
you are correct about the application however.. actually iirc the instructions said it was against federal law to apply in higher considerations then listed.. which i am not, i am using the strongest strength which is listed in teh instructions on the container.

thanks for your words of warning although it does nothing to actually help me, it's 80% done anyhow, outside is covered, inside is being done a room by room basis as i tear up the bad flooring.


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

fcmem said:


> wow thats such a helpful post..
> 
> from what i've read it was'nt illegal to obtain, it's company POLICY to only sell termidor to people who have been certified to use it, this is a company policy from my understanding, not federal law.
> 
> ...


You understanding is wrong. Fipronil (sp?) the active ingredient in Termidor is a controlled substance. You can purchase it in a "diluted" form legally. It is illegal for you to be in possession of the concintrate without the appropriate licensing. Don't take my word for it call the EPA or CPSC hot lines and tell them what you purchased and who and how you got it from. I'm sure they will be very interested.

The pest control sold you the concintrate illegaly both the shipper and recipient are equally resposible. Pesticides are shipped by private carriers. The contents of the load must be accompinied by the proper warning signs and labels.

Any variation from the label is a violation of federal law. I was not trying to assist you in breaking laws or contaminating aquifers. The job should have been done by a proffesional. As I stated this is not a DIY project. You have put the well being of yourself, your family, your nieghbors, animals, and possibly others by doing a job you are not qualified to do! To top it all off rather than err on the side of caution you are applying at the highest concintration allowed without the proper equipment and training to truly verify that you are applying at the correct percentage. 

There is a reason they want people to be licensed to use this stuff. It is to protect the well being of the general public and to make sure those applying these chemicals fully understand what they are doing and why they are doing it that way. If you would like a more in depth explanation PM with your contact information and I will be happy to forward it along with this thread to your regional EPA office.


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