# Bad smell in certain parts of house in warm weather



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I think you are on the right track---have you inspected the attic? 

Dead animals, even small ones--really have a lingering odor--


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Most likely a bunch of dead vermin. They will give off a sick sweet smell that really can not be described. they might have killed the adults with decon but the young may have froze or starved to death and now you smell them. they could be in the walls or in the attic. follow your nose


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Could this room have been where the family pets been kept? Has the carpeting been replaced, often someone will replace a badly soiled carpet, and forget to clean the sub-flooring underneath. leaving a "stink" behind after it gets warmer. 

look around in the attic, crawlspace, etc. for dead animals too. 

ED


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

I think it's a dubious claim that "mice killed with D-Con don't smell." It's a rotting animal corpse, it's gonna smell, right?


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

We've checked the attic (most of the attic above the smelly room is accessible) and the attic doesn't smell funky at all. However, that's where we saw the plentiful mouse droppings that caused us to ask the former owners's family about the mice.

Even if D-Con killed mice don't smell (seems dubious, I agree), good point about the babies. 

But is 2+ months with the smell normal?

As for flooring and pets, it's all hardwood, and it was refinished just before we moved in. I've sniffed all over the room and can't pinpoint a source. It's not coming in through the windows, it's not the floor, not the closet, and it's not the electrical receptacles. The one place I couldn't sniff easily was the ceiling or upper exterior facing walls, hence the theory that that's where it's coming from.

What would people's next step be? Wait another couple more months and see?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

See if you can rent a SEE-SNAKE , from a rental store, or H D , or buy one, but expect a HIGH price. 

This device is a fiber optic camera, made for poking into wall cavities and shining a built in light, and displaying the view on a small screen. Poke it in around the outlets, switches, heat vents, etc. 

You may need to make a few holes in the wall in inconspicuous places to see everywhere. 


Another thought, ( MORBID IT IS) Is this the room that the elderly lady passed in, and was she discovered right away, or semi decayed there, And if so that smell stays a loooong time. 



Might be able to look down from the attic into these wall cavities. 

And I was told that mice will eat their dead, thus passing the d-con along to the next generation.

ED


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Sniff around the receptacles in those rooms. If it is coming from within the wall spaces, it should be stronger there. Any evidence of water leaks or infiltration in those areas? Damp fiberglass insulation has a nasty smell. Mold can too if it's severe.


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

> Another thought, ( MORBID IT IS) Is this the room that the elderly lady passed in, and was she discovered right away, or semi decayed there, And if so that smell stays a loooong time.


Heh, we wondered about that, but from talking to her family they were there when she died so I don't think that was the case. Also, she did not use the upper floor after she was wheelchair bound - basically treated it as an attic with boxes of stuff sitting there for many years, hence mice having a party up there.

I've sniffed the receptacles, but can't detect any stronger smell from them.

The camera thing is an interesting idea...


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

*Poltergeists *!


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## Eagle One (Feb 11, 2011)

Try going back into the attic and finding the opening(s) where the mice were going from the attic to the lower floors. There have to be some holes there. The insulation in the attic may be preventing the smells from emanating up into the attic. Then determine where those points are on the lower floors and investigate in those areas more closely. See if the smell is worse near those parts of the wall, etc. Then maybe cut into the drywall to investigate. Repairing a small patch in the wall is no big deal and might be less money or hassle than renting a camera. If it were my house, I would want to know what the heck is rotting behind those walls. And, yeah, if there are enough of them, I think any dead rodents would smell. It is going to be a nasty chore climbing around in the attic but that is where I would start.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Re the camera idea, USB inspection cameras have become very cheap. You can get a 5m long somewhat-waterproof camera with its own lighting for around $20. Dozens to choose from. Need a laptop with USB of course.

Go to Amazon and search "endoscope camera".


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## Jtom (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you do any wall repair/repainting over the winter? Do you know if the previous owner just repainted?

I used old joint compound to repair nail pops and do a skim coat prior to repainting, and experienced the same situation. Once the weather warmed up, we got an odor in those two rooms.

Got rid of the smell by using Zinsser BIN primer to seal the walls and ceiling.

In our situation, opening the windows made it worse, but running the ac made it go away.

Jeff


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

roboth said:


> We've checked the attic (most of the attic above the smelly room is accessible) and the attic doesn't smell funky at all. However, that's where we saw the plentiful mouse droppings that caused us to ask the former owners's family about the mice.
> 
> Even if D-Con killed mice don't smell (seems dubious, I agree), good point about the babies.
> 
> ...


Might need to lift and move the insulation. I had rat die and it took me a few weeks to find the darn thing it was under the Blown in paper insulation. That was fun digging around in that stuff!


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

Resurrecting a slightly old thread to say that we may have a breakthrough.

The smell problem had not been going away, and was bad enough that with relatives from out of town visiting, they opted to sleep on the basement floor rather than upstairs due to the smell being sickening.

Yesterday while in the laundry room I somewhat randomly decided to climb on a chair and sniff at a gas pipe joint near the ceiling under the stairs to the first floor, as it looked a bit corroded... and got a whiff of gas!

I immediately called the gas company's leak hotline again, and they sent someone out.

Remember that I'd done this before, when we first moved in months ago and smelled the smell, and the gas guy said he smelled nothing and his meter showed nothing, although I didn't have an exact spot on a pipe to point to. Yesterday, same thing... even in the parts of the house that smelled strongly, the gas guy said "That's not gas smell"... he proceeded to check nearly all the pipe joints with his meter, and got nothing until he got to the leak i'd found - at that joint his meter showed a small reading when he applied it directly to the leak.

Here's the thing. He shut of the gas to the house, and we're waiting on a plumber... but *when he shut of the gas, the house stopped smelling within half an hour.*

So two gas professionals insist the smell is not gas, but the first time the house has been stink free in months is immediately after the gas line to the house is shut off, and we now know there *was* a gas leak in the basement. 

Furthermore, the guy insisted that even if the smell was gas, the small leak in the basement (he said they call these small leaks 'fizzers') would not have been smellable upstairs, where the smell gets pretty strong. Does this mean more leaks?

Anyhow, we have a plumber coming over this morning, so I will ask them too. Is there some sort of test they can do to find further leaks? I've heard of a 'pressure test' but wasn't clear how that worked...


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

As you already determined it's time to quit relying on the gas professionals because your nose is better. 
If you would like to DIY a very good leak detector is available at some industrial supplies. A couple of drops on connections usually tells the truth about leaks. 

Keep in mind some gas black pipe plumbing was installed years ago with seamed pipe rather than seamless and could still be today if a plumber wanted to cut his cost, but as far as I'm concerned isn't legal whether code or not. I've actually seen it leak on residential installations, but those leaks are more rare and more difficult to detect than at connections.

http://www.shoplet.com/Snoop-leak-Leak-Detectors-8OZ-SNOOP/SEPTLS7478OZSNOOP/spdv?rtop=1


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

If nothing else have your plumber do a soap bubble test on every gas pipe that he can find, yes this is an old school test, but very effective. 

And in no way ever strike a match looking for a gas leak, if you find a leak that will be the last thing that you will ever do.

ED


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Does not sound like their sniffers are properly calibrated or high quality. Where I am they can find leaks so small that even soap and water have a very difficult time to bubble. I use a special Calgon refrigerant leak detector. Had a customer with a bloodhound nose find a leak so small it took the gas co and me 2 visits to find. Or she was neurotic and imagined it but we found one anyway.

If you have rodent poop DO NOT mess with it unless you wear a HEPA mask as you can get a deadly Hanta Virus. Google that.


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

Another update. The smell was definitely gone with the gas off, and we had a plumber come by the next day to fix the leak. He basically just tightened the pipe by maybe 1/32 of a turn, and said the leak was fixed. A soap bubble test confirmed no gas seemed to be escaping.

All seemed better for a few days, until yesterday, the gas smell was back!

I sniffed at the same joint, and smelled gas again! But a soap bubble test still showed nothing. I've shut off the gas again (I now know how to relight the water heater pilot myself), and will see if the smell clears in the house. It seemed better after a few hours (and the joint in question immediately stopped smelling) but I'd like to give it a day to be sure.

Not sure where to go from here, as the gas company doesn't seem to be able to detect small leaks, and the plumber wasn't very helpful (I asked about a pressure test and he said he wasn't able to do anything like that). 

Hmm...

The problematic piping is all for stuff that is not in use - going up to the kitchen where there used to be a gas stove (now electric), and to the garage where there used to be a gas furnace. 

Can I disconnect and cap off this branch myself?


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## mnp13 (Jan 16, 2007)

Was there gas running to the upstairs at any time? It sounds like maybe a pipe in the wall that was capped and is perhaps leaking now? Look in the basement for any lines that are going up into the walls but you can't see where they come out. If your house is open framed, the leak could be a small one in the basement, but the gas would rise through the framing and collect in the wall near that room. Just a thought.

And, in general, animals that are killed with d-con do not smell as much as an animal that is killed by physical means. It's a blood thinner, so they bleed out and basically turn into little mouse mummies.


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

We considered the upstairs thing, but we checked pretty carefully and the only gas line we can see going up is the one to the kitchen, and one to the old gas fireplace that is shut off via two separate valves, so I'm pretty sure it's definitely off.. I suppose it is possible that the one to the kitchen branches to more places than the stove, but the fact that gas rises and I could smell it at the joint in the basement makes me think that this joint is the most likely culprit (unless there's another leak too, but first things first). The basement is partially finished so we can't trace the gas line completely, but we can trace enough of the piping that we don't think it goes up.

At this point I'm pretty sure that the smell isn't dead animal decay (since it does smell like gas, and shutting of the gas makes it stop). The animal decay theory base based on the gas company saying after their first visit that there was no leak, so I was looking for the next most likely cause (along with sewer gas).


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If the pipe run is abandoned---sure--that can be disconnected and capped off---I don't know your skill level--so I can't tell you to do it yourself---one tip on any gas piping--use TFE paste and tape---
Always use two pipe wrenches when unscrewing a pipe--one to hold the fitting--one for the pipe.

A plumber should be able to take care of that in less than an hour---


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

The pipe needs to be replaced not tightened. It sounds like the seal around the threads is bad.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I wonder if the plumber you hired is smart enough to know that unless there is a union to loosen between the two ends of the pipe he tightened 1/32, as he tightened the one leaking end he loosened the connection at the other end.


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

Fairview said:


> I wonder if the plumber you hired is smart enough to know that unless there is a union to loosen between the two ends of the pipe he tightened 1/32, as he tightened the one leaking end he loosened the connection at the other end.


I think he assumed that the other end was capped off. We were unable to look due to the electric appliance being a built-in 1970's behemoth (stove, microwave above, and exhaust fan above that all one unit attached to the wall).


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

oh'mike said:


> If the pipe run is abandoned---sure--that can be disconnected and capped off---I don't know your skill level--so I can't tell you to do it yourself---one tip on any gas piping--use TFE paste and tape---
> Always use two pipe wrenches when unscrewing a pipe--one to hold the fitting--one for the pipe.
> 
> A plumber should be able to take care of that in less than an hour---


I haven't done this type of thing before, but am generally handy and can operate a wrench! However, from some reading online, it's a serious criminal offense to work on gas piping without a license? Or is that just in some regions?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am a bit suspicious about your piping. If the entire job was not done properly and the joints sealed with proper dope then once you start moving it more leaks can occur. It is illegal to install a furnace w/o taking a permit out and having it inspected. There are serious consequence for not having a license to buy and use Freon/refrigerants for ACs.

Unfortunately your gas co is incompetent and some of your tradesmen. However there must be some Plumber or gas service tech who knows how to do gas piping properly, you may have to shop around. Then get him to cap off the unused section and buy yourself some Calgon refrigerant leak detector soap and check the joints yourself.

Moving around old piping can cause leaks to occur so you don't want to do that yourself.

http://www.nucalgon.com/products/gas-leak-detectors/gas-leak-detector


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## roboth (May 6, 2014)

I know this thread is almost old enough to go to kindergarten, but since I was PM'ed a question about it just now from someone in a similar situation, I figured I'd post an update. 

In the end, we stopped using that room for 2.5 years. The gas leak theories being explored at the time this thread was going turned out to be dead ends. We had the kitchen remodeled, a new gas stove installed, and the gas piping from the basement (the pipe being discussed where we didn't know what the upper end was ) completely replaced. The smell remained. For a while we were almost going crazy, shutting off the gas to the house for days at a time to try to determine for sure if it was as gas leak or not. In the end we concluded that it was not gas.. even with the gas turned off for a whole 10 days (we were on vacation, so we used the opportunity), when we returned, same smell.

Pretty much every tradesman who came to the house to do any work we took to the bad room, asked them to take a sniff, and give their opinion. The best theory we got was from a painter who said it was probably nicotine smell - the old owner was apparently a heavy smoker, and that room was likely the master bedroom. So years of smoke and tar absorbed into the walls, coming back out as a weird sickly bad smell.

We were resistant to repainting the room at first as the entire house had been repainted prior to us moving in, so it had a fresh paint job, and nobody could actually assure us that painting would help. But two summers ago we bit the bullet and repainted, using multiple coats of a shellac/alcohol primer on all the woodwork and plaster, then finishing with regular latex paint. 

This solved the problem. The room is basically fine now, and we're able to use it finally.

So, at least for us, the problem likely was old cigarette smoke seeping out from under a paint job that didn't seal it in, and special primer and new paint did the trick.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

roboth said:


> I know this thread is almost old enough to go to kindergarten, but since I was PM'ed a question about it just now from someone in a similar situation, I figured I'd post an update.
> 
> In the end, we stopped using that room for 2.5 years. The gas leak theories being explored at the time this thread was going turned out to be dead ends. We had the kitchen remodeled, a new gas stove installed, and the gas piping from the basement (the pipe being discussed where we didn't know what the upper end was ) completely replaced. The smell remained. For a while we were almost going crazy, shutting off the gas to the house for days at a time to try to determine for sure if it was as gas leak or not. In the end we concluded that it was not gas.. even with the gas turned off for a whole 10 days (we were on vacation, so we used the opportunity), when we returned, same smell.
> 
> ...



Figured I'd just piggy back onto this... but I bought a 2,700 square foot home about a year and a half ago. When I bought it, it had sat vacant for 2 years, and was 100% original from when it was built in 1983. Even the carpet was new. 

The family who owned it had raised their kids in the home, and it was their forever home. The husband died in 2001, but the wife stayed there until she passed away 2 years before I bought it. Never the less... they both chain-smoked from 1983-2000. Even after essentially what was 18 years, the house STILL reeked of cigarette smoke. 

I moved ahead for work while my wife and daughter stayed in Florida so my daughter could finish school. For the first 6 months I was by myself, and ALL I could smell every day was cigarette smell. Like a nasty humid gross smell. When it was warm out, it got much worse. 

Eventually, I've painted almost every square inch of the home already (only have the laundry / utility and downstairs guest bathroom left to renovate). But I no longer smell it.

But even still, when I cleaned the A/C vents... the cigarette smell was heavily pungent throughout the house for a good couple of weeks. 


Only way to really get rid of the cigarette smell is to paint walls, tear up flooring (carpet, etc), and seal it. That includes the ceiling. I even replaced all the baseboard.


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## b-boy (Feb 28, 2007)

roboth said:


> I know this thread is almost old enough to go to kindergarten, but since I was PM'ed a question about it just now from someone in a similar situation, I figured I'd post an update.
> 
> In the end, we stopped using that room for 2.5 years. The gas leak theories being explored at the time this thread was going turned out to be dead ends. We had the kitchen remodeled, a new gas stove installed, and the gas piping from the basement (the pipe being discussed where we didn't know what the upper end was ) completely replaced. The smell remained. For a while we were almost going crazy, shutting off the gas to the house for days at a time to try to determine for sure if it was as gas leak or not. In the end we concluded that it was not gas.. even with the gas turned off for a whole 10 days (we were on vacation, so we used the opportunity), when we returned, same smell.
> 
> ...


I have the same situation. I have a really old house, and an entire family of chain smokers who lived there for 25+ years. The parents and kids all smoked. I've found lighters and packs of cigarettes hidden everywhere. Every inch of the house has cigarette smell embeded in it. It's nasty. 

The kitchen was the worst. I remodeled 2 years ago. The old cabinets were actually sticky from all the smoke and tar. The kitchen had original built-in pantry cabinets from the late 1800s. I didn't want to tear them out, so I painted them. You still get a whiff of cigarette smoke when you open them. I don't think it will ever go away.

The worst was the linolium counter tops. I thought I could reuse them in my garage. I let them air ourt for months. They still smelled so I just tossed them.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Since the house is 1930.

Did you check to see if gas lamps was used.

The pipes may have just been capped inside the walls instead of.....?


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