# Sump pump is pushing water up into the bath tub. Eh?



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

SO much easyer to picture what you have with a real picture.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

http://imgur.com/a/WZ8rC#1

Right where it transitions from PVC to galvanized, there's a copper pipe coming up on a 45. That's the bath tub drain. Some water from the sump pump always ends up going up that pipe due to the pressure.

You can also see a curved PVC piece just above the sump pump that is now capped. I have no idea exactly what that was, I assume the previous owner made that originally and when they had problems created the longer piece Y'ing into the main pipe further down.


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Huh?????*

Why is your sump pump dumping into your sanitary sewer? You sanitary sewer lines are DWV. That means drain, waste, vent. That means gravity flow, not pressurized flow.

Sump pumps usually just dump outdoors.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

jagans, I wish I knew. A lot of things about this house just make me wonder. I redid the bathroom upstairs a few months ago and found out there were no shut off valves for the water lines there. Pretty awesome. A lot of what I'm doing is trying to rationalize what the previous owner's train of thought was. I'm just not sure what to think of it.

The only thing I can think of is the fact that on the back of the house you have the driveway, deck, etc. There's quite a lot of "stuff" there until you actually get out to the yard. I suppose I could always drill a hole on the right side and run a pipe out there. Does it matter that the washer dumps into the sump pump as well? Would that still be considered sanitary to actually go out to a drain field of some sort?


----------



## Ishmael (Apr 24, 2007)

Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.

I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

Ishmael said:


> Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.
> 
> I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?


The washer is the primary issue here. Washer dumps into sump, sump pump eventually forces it up and out, and sure enough the sudsy washer water is what you see in the tub. It only pushes a little bit up, but still...


----------



## Ishmael (Apr 24, 2007)

Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around. Undersized drains, and inadequate venting.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

Ishmael said:


> Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around.


I hear ya, man. I'm just doing what I can to work through the issues of it. I've seen some houses where in the basement, the outbound waste drain pipe is on the floor. This one, however, is at eye level when I'm standing down here. I guess since they knew they'd need a lift system for the sink, they figured using the sump pump made sense. Or... something like that?


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Holy Cow*

It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.


----------



## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't like the idea of a check valve. It will be fouled with hair from the tub drain and not work right.

The tub should not tee in with a hard 90° like that. I think that is part of the problem. It should be either a sweep tee, or a 45° wye.

I think you also have a restriction or obstruction in the pipe after the tub. That's probably part of the reason water backs up.

Assuming it's even appropriate to pipe sump discharge to the DWV system, which I doubt, the correct solution is to repipe.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

jagans said:


> It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.


Well, I wouldn't doubt the derailment thought. We're the second owners of this house and we moved in back in January. They however lived here since it was built in 1958.

Yes, I mean clothes washer. And we're on public sewer - no septic tank.


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Washer*

Give your wife break and move the washer up to the first floor, and pipe it to a laundry sink or a stand tube. Run the sump pump out the basement wall through a sleeve grouted into the wall. foam between the sleeve and the pipe.

judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out


----------



## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

jagans said:


> Give your wife break
> 
> judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out


Yeah sometimes you just gotta rip crap out. We bought a foreclosure with a mix of corroded copper, galv, and illegal PVC supplies. Repiping was a lot of work, but it was The Right Thing To Do and we'll enjoy the benefits for for many years.


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re do*

Actually,

It is often easier to start with a clean slate and draw a new propely designed and efficient system than to mess with existing crap that is all done as an afterthought. I have re-piped several houses in which the basements looked like they had upside down inside out french horns on the ceiling for supply lines. Learn the theory and stick to the code.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

Might be onto something here. As I said, we have two sump pumps. The one up front hasn't been used since we've been here, but it's got an identical pit, identical pump, identical setup, etc as the rear pump. The only difference is the rear pump gets used heavily because it's used with the clothing washer, so it's constantly offloading that, hence my issues above.

I traced the pipe that comes from the front pump. It goes to an entirely different location on the far right side of the basement. Look at these images:

http://imgur.com/a/ThyT2

Think I can just hack into the pipe, add a Y, and add the rear sump pump to it? Would a clothing washer dumping into (what I assume) the pipe for the drain field be okay?


----------



## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

You don't want solids like lint clogging up a buried drain field.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

So if I'm understanding this properly, the optimal plan would be to have the washer drain right into the sewer line, and have the sump pump (including the sink down there) dump into the drain field. Eh?


----------



## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Huh?????*

The sink and the washing machine should be piped into the sanitary sewer system which you said was a city sewer system. They have to be properly trapped and vented. The sump pump basically receives rain water from around the footers, and can be pumped out of the basement, usually onto a slash block.

Your term drain field is applicable to a septic system. Its important to use the correct terms if you wish to be understood.


----------



## roasted (Jan 23, 2012)

jagans said:


> The sink and the washing machine should be piped into the sanitary sewer system which you said was a city sewer system. They have to be properly trapped and vented. The sump pump basically receives rain water from around the footers, and can be pumped out of the basement, usually onto a slash block.
> 
> Your term drain field is applicable to a septic system. Its important to use the correct terms if you wish to be understood.


I'm just using the terms that were presented to me during the inspection. This situation has several different angles, though. The washing machine and sink need to go into the sewer system. Okay, fine... I can get a hose extension and likely hook it up to the sewer pipe along the ceiling. But the sink on the other hand... I have to figure out some way to get the water from the sink to "lift" up to that point. I think that's why they just opted to put the sink/washer in the sump pump since it was just easier (even if it may not have been entirely correct). Hmm...


----------



## radpp16 (Mar 9, 2017)

Apologize for the inexperience. I have a sump pump(in unfinished storage room) in a finished basement. Everytime there are issues with it(alarm), it causes water to back up into the basement tub. ARS / Roto Rooter frequently have to come out to "clean" the float switch/clean it out. Do I have a poor plumbing design? Why/how does the sump pump connect to the basement full bathroom?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I didn't bother reading the 5 year old posts, but a sump pump (for removing clean ground water) should not be connected to your household plumbing. If your sump system is connected to a basement (laundry?) tub or basement bathroom, it is improper. Because of that, your pump may be getting fouled by discharge from these other sources.

If your sump is in an unfinished space, you should be able to see where the discharge goes. In most, but admittedly not all, cases, the discharge is simply a pipe that goes straight up and exits through your exterior wall. Run the laundry tub and/or the fixtures in your basement bathroom. If you see flow going into your sump pit, there's your problem.


----------



## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Your sump discharge should be plumbed to a 4 inch or larger drain. The pump is a pressurized discharge and will cause many issues if not plumbed correctly. Sanitary drains are based on a gravity drain not forced pressure.

Apparently some idiot installed your sump with the wrong pump.


----------



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Ghostmaker said:


> Your sump discharge should be plumbed to a 4 inch or larger drain. The pump is a pressurized discharge and will cause many issues if not plumbed correctly. Sanitary drains are based on a gravity drain not forced pressure.
> 
> Apparently some idiot installed your sump with the wrong pump.


That might be a local thing: up here 1 1/2 is common (for sump not ejector), but you are right about the pressurized discharge mingling with gravity plumbing.


----------



## radpp16 (Mar 9, 2017)

lenaitch said:


> That might be a local thing: up here 1 1/2 is common (for sump not ejector), but you are right about the pressurized discharge mingling with gravity plumbing.


I am in Apex, NC. New construction Meritage Builder. The issues (alarm) come up only with frequent use of the basement bathroom.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

radpp16 said:


> I am in Apex, NC. New construction Meritage Builder. The issues (alarm) come up only with frequent use of the basement bathroom.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Something sounds very wrong unless your plumbing code is very different than what I'm familiar with. Others may know more. Is there a New Home Warrantee program in your jurisdiction? You should follow up with your builder and/or building inspector, but you should do your homework first and get your head around - as far as you can - about what is flowing where, what is connected to what, etc.


----------



## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Washing machine water should not be given to the sump pump.
o The washing machine water can corrode and shorten the life of the sump pump. 
o The sump pump might not be able to keep up with getting rid of both the washing machine water and ground water during rainy season and you basement could flood unexpectedly.
o Unpleasant odors could develop in the sump pump drainage system and be noticeable in the basement.

The sump puimp outlet can go either onto the ground surface or into a drain field (leach field) or dry well specifically constructed for this water. In both cases the water should have gotten a good distance from the house before it soaks into the ground.

You should not splice onto a washing machine drain hose. This could overload ad shorten the life of washing machine components notably the pump that ejects the water during the spin cycle. If the washing machine has to stay in the basement and its drain hose does not reach that high then you should install a laundry tub of at least 20 gallons draining into an ejector pump assembly. The latter pumps the washing machine water up to the house main drain line to the sewer. The laundry tub is needed to hold the water until the ejector pump can get rid of all of it. For this laundry tub, faucets are optional.


----------



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Sounds to me like you have two pumps. One is a sump pumps that pumps ground away. The other a sewage ejector pump that pumps washer and sink drain to the sewer system where it is supposed to.
Being as you say this is new construction I would call the builder back to investigate and remedy.


----------



## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Your basement bathrooms need to be plumbed to a grinder pump if you been having to get that pit cleaned constantly that is telling me some one installed a cheap water storm pump instead of the more expensive grinder pump.


----------



## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

radpp16 said:


> I am in Apex, NC. New construction Meritage Builder. The issues (alarm) come up only with frequent use of the basement bathroom.


Sounds like your *sewage ejector pump* isn't cycling properly. This is not a sump pump although they look very similar. Sump pumps take ground water and dump back onto your yard or into a storm sewer. Ejector pumps, pump *sewage *into the municipal sewage system. Ejector pits should have a lid that is sealed tight and a vent line (ie two dwv lines into the pit) to exhaust the gases through the roof and allow air to enter the sump as effluent is pumped out.

If its backing up into the tub that means the ejector sump pit is full and its overflowing into the closest fixture. If you have a toilet down there it probably isn't very pleasant effluent... gross...

I had a similar problem in that my ejector pump switch wasn't working properly. I changed it to an electronic switch and since then its worked perfectly 8 years ago now.....

The secondary benefit is the switch has some diagnostic capabilities as well to keep track of the pumps health (motor current load, ...) 

Not the most fun changing a switch on an ejector pump but better than cleaning up a basement 2" deep in sewage.... before opening the pit plug the ejector pump motor into the wall bypassing the float switch piggyback plug. Let it runs for 20-30 seconds until you hear the pump change tone suggesting its drained the whole pit. Then unplug the pump and open the lid.

http://washerwatcher.com/Ejector_Controller.htm


----------

