# Junction box hanging in the wall with no stud



## faietan (Nov 16, 2020)

Hello all.... 

I have a small bedroom in my rental house where I was going to skim coat the walls. I noticed one of the junction boxes was caved into the wall so I unscrewed it and pulled it out and realized it is not mounted to a stud. Actually I realized there are no studs at all running along this small back wall. The drywall must be mounted only to the corners or something and it is very hollow feeling. I wanted to know if there is a way to mount the junction box onto the drywall somehow. I'm assuming this wall should just be knocked out and redone completely. Just wanted to hear what everyone thought.


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## Boogityman (Oct 17, 2017)

Change it for a rework junction box it just clips onto the drywall

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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

See the tab that swings up behind the drywall. Old work box.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If the drywall hole is so beat up that it's enlarged too much for the wings on the box, you may need to do a little drywall repair. Possibly you could slip a thin piece of wood behind the beat up part of the hole and glue it to the back of the drywall there. If the wood is thin enough the wings should still be able to reach back far enough to grip.








Kinda looks to me like someone tried to repair the beat up drywall with spackle or joint compound...


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

That is a box that is designed to be mounted directly into the drywall. It doesn't need a stud.
The problem is the drywall is so broken the box won't hold. I suggest moving the box 3" to the left or right in a new hole cut to the proper size for the box the hold. Then patch the beat up hole. you could also move it up if left or right is not good for you.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

joed said:


> That is a box that is designed to be mounted directly into the drywall. It doesn't need a stud.
> The problem is the drywall is so broken the box won't hold. I suggest moving the box 3" to the left or right in a new hole cut to the proper size for the box the hold. Then patch the beat up hole. you could also move it up if left or right is not good for you.


That is why I dislike those boxes. If they get a lot of use, inserting plugs and like, they loosen up and start tearing up the drywall. Very much so with tamper proof receptacles as it is hard to push in a plug. When I am forced to use one I place it next to a stud and drive 2 pan head screws thru the side of the box into the stud. And yes I know that is a code violation.

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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

rjniles said:


> And yes I know that is a code violation.


Even though there's a Carlon box _designed_ to be used like that?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Even though there's a Carlon box _designed_ to be used like that?
> View attachment 669922


That's not designed to be used as rj said. You're showing a "new work" box and you have to have access (without the drywall) to hammer in the nails. With his method, you are using an "old work" box, but still attaching it to studs with the only space you have to work with.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

@huesmann there are listed boxes that can be screwed through the side into framing. Search Smartbox. The box you showed is a new work box.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

And the Carlon box pictured uses the same attachment method as your Smartboxes when used in an "old work" condition. I take it you've never used one of those Carlon boxes before?


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

smart box


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Exactly.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

huesmann said:


> Exactly.


A better image so you can see the screws that attach the box to the stud in an old work situation. This one is by Arlington. It can also be used as anew work box.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> And the Carlon box pictured uses the same attachment method as your Smartboxes when used in an "old work" condition. I take it you've never used one of those Carlon boxes before?


I don't think anyone here understands what you're talking about. The Carlon box you posted is a new work box for which you need access to the nails to hammer them in (i.e. there can't be drywall in the way). They can't be retro fit. The other solutions being talking about are old work boxes for which the screws can be accessed with the drywall already in place.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The Carlon box is multi-use. There are guides for the screws through the side like the Smartbox. They just don't show very well.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> I don't think anyone here understands what you're talking about. The Carlon box you posted is a new work box for which you need access to the nails to hammer them in (i.e. there can't be drywall in the way). They can't be retro fit. The other solutions being talking about are old work boxes for which the screws can be accessed with the drywall already in place.


Yeah, I think you're right—you just don't understand how the Carlon new/old work box works.








For new work, you can just screw the tab on the left onto the face of a stud, or drive the nails are the rear into a stud.

For old work, you remove the tab and pull out the nails. See the things circled in red and green? That's where you drive a screw into a stud—_just like the Smartbox and the Arlington box. _In fact the Carlon box is more versatile in orientation in "old work" mode. Carlon just doesn't include the screws that the others do.
_














_
Maybe this video will make it even more obvious to you:


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

huesmann, That is an interesting box. I looked at the Carlon web site and could nor find it. Do you know the model number and have you found a source for them?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Yeah, I think you're right—you just don't understand how the Carlon new/old work box works.


Well, you couldn't have picked a more confusing box to make your point, but OK. And like rj, I couldn't find that box on Carlon's website let alone my local Home Depot or Lowe's.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

rjniles said:


> huesmann, That is an interesting box. I looked at the Carlon web site and could nor find it. Do you know the model number and have you found a source for them?


I just found them on the shelf at HD. Was looking for an old work box, and with all the shortages they were out of the winged ones, and I saw this one listed as old/new. At first I didn't understand how it worked in an old work condition—with the tab and nails—so I searched online and educated myself. It's pretty ingenious, actually. And it's actually a pretty good size for box fill.








Carlon 1-Gang 24.5 cu. in. PVC New/Old Work Electrical Box B125AB - The Home Depot


This multi-purpose electrical box can be used in both new and old work applications. It can be mounted either horizontally or vertically on wood or steel studs and also includes a breakaway flange for



www.homedepot.com




HD website shows my local store as having 85 in stock right now, so they're not scarce on the ground...I suspect like Jeff many people are confused about how to use them.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> Well, you couldn't have picked a more confusing box to make your point, but OK. And like rj, I couldn't find that box on Carlon's website let alone my local Home Depot or Lowe's.


You mean my point that there are boxes (apparently code-compliant) that mount by screwing through the side?

Search "carlon old new work box" and see what pops for ya...


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> You mean my point that there are boxes (apparently code-compliant) that mount by screwing through the side?


LOL are you being serious right now? Your box showed nails being pounded in from the outside. All the other boxes people posted showed screws being screwed in from the inside. Your box was obscure to say the least. Including the part where you showed the red and green circles on holes that appear to go into cylinders pointing straight backward, which couldn't possibly hit a side stud at that angle. It's not clear until you actually watch a movie that it's even possible to get screws through at an angle in those holes.

Having said that, now that I know what I'm looking for, they have them at my local Home Depot as well.

Personally I don't like boxes that have that flange that gets in the way of the drywall lying flush against the stud. If you screw in the drywall too close to that flange, the drywall will crack. I would cut that lip off whether I was doing new or old work. The ones I've seen before are more permanent. At least that one looks like it can be removed easily. Maybe one way to use that box in new work would be to install with the flange intact, then when it's attached you can cut away the flange with a utility knife or pliers. Then you get the benefit of correct offset from the stud, but also no flange to get in the way of drywall.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, I'm being serious. Are you? rjniles said he'd fastened boxes to studs by screwing through the side, alleging that to do so was a code violation. I pointed out a manufactured box—presumably code legal—that used that very mounting method (among others). What's _your_ point?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Yes, I'm being serious. Are you? rjniles said he'd fastened boxes to studs by screwing through the side, alleging that to do so was a code violation. I pointed out a manufactured box—presumably code legal—that used that very mounting method (among others). What's _your_ point?


I already stated it. You could not have picked a more confusing example. You showed a box with nails in the side, and obscure screw holes that even if you knew what they were, still pointed in the wrong direction. Everyone else showed perfectly clear examples - boxes with screws that go in at angles. Why you thought you gave a clear example, or why you don't understand my comment, is beyond me. Carry on.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

rjniles said:


> That is an interesting box. I looked at the Carlon web site and could nor find it. Do you know the model number …


The single gang Carlon number is B125AB.
The 2 gang Carlon number is B249B.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> I already stated it. You could not have picked a more confusing example. You showed a box with nails in the side, and obscure screw holes that even if you knew what they were, still pointed in the wrong direction. Everyone else showed perfectly clear examples - boxes with screws that go in at angles. Why you thought you gave a clear example, or why you don't understand my comment, is beyond me. Carry on.


I apologize for using an example box that confused you. However, I am happy you learned something today.


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