# Finishing w/Mud Rings



## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

yes you the finish wall goes over the box and up to the outside edges of the plaster ring.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

If you are fitting a patch around the ring a gap of up to 1/8" around the ring is acceptable.

Also remember that the ring can only be set back no more than 1/4" in a non-combustible finish like drywall. This gap does make the devices spongy when trying to insert plugs. If set back is more than 1/4" box extensions should be used.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Jim Port said:


> If you are fitting a patch around the ring a gap of up to 1/8" around the ring is acceptable.
> 
> Also remember that the ring can only be set back no more than 1/4" in a non-combustible finish like drywall. This gap does make the devices spongy when trying to insert plugs. If set back is more than 1/4" box extensions should be used.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean by setback, you elaborate on this? Also why does a gap make the device spongy?

I have a 1.5" box and a 3/4" mud ring ...the mud ring will probably end up being set back about 1/8" - 3/16" at most from the wall's room facing surface. Of course, the mud ring will be embedded in the plaster wall, not behind the wall.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Setback, when the box does not extend out to the face of the finished surface. 

If the hole is cut too big the device will only be supported by the ears or floating on the device screws.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Lovegasoline said:


> the mud ring will be embedded in the plaster wall, not behind the wall.


Thats what I though you were saying. No. No. No. The wall board or plaster lathe must cover all but the very front of the mud ring. It goes behind the wall. You should have to use no mud at all. The wall board is cut out so it fits over the ring. No extra mud required. I am not very familiar with plaster and lathe, but the last thing you want is mud around the mud ring.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

J. V. said:


> Thats what I though you were saying. No. No. No. The wall board or plaster lathe must cover all but the very front of the mud ring. It goes behind the wall. You should have to use no mud at all. The wall board is cut out so it fits over the ring. No extra mud required. I am not very familiar with plaster and lathe, but the last thing you want is mud around the mud ring.


J.V., can you clarify: your post appears to contradict with what Bob says upthread.

A pic is worth 1,000 words, but let me try to be clearer. 
The wall is plaster/wood lathe construction. First there are the wood 2x4 studs (oriented with the _wide side_ facing the room, not the narrow side as in new sheetrock construction), then on top of the studs are rough 1/4” or so thick wood lathing strips, then there’s _a full 1” of various layers of plaster._

I have recep quad boxes with the mounting flange that goes over the lathing. Because there’s a large gap between the box and the wall’s outer surface, I need to bring the box further _forward._ The electrical supply stores here (even specialty electric) didn't have a clue about adjustable boxes, or lathing specific boxes for this purpose, and sold me the mud ring. I got two sizes 3/4" and 1”. With the metal 3/4” mud ring screwed to the metal recep box, the assembly is nearly flush with the wall, or is set back only about 1/8” at most. 

Now I need to _patch_ around the recep box, as cutting into plaster walls is a huge messy enterprise and has no relationship to cutting into sheetrock. The mud ring’s most prominent _forward_ edge is a thin edge…from there is curves back towards the actual recep box. I am told to patch with joint compound _all around the box and right up to the sharp mud ring’s edge_…therefore the box will be neatly ‘embedded” in compound and flush with the wall. 
It is possible that due to varying wall thicknesses (plaster patches from olden days, skim coats, etc.) that in some instances the mud ring will not be flush with the wall, but may be set back 1/8 - 3/16" at most. In these cases if the receptacle is too sunken in and set back from the wall, I will take a small piece of solid copper wire and wrap it around the receptacles' mounting screw to act as a small spacer so it is at the right position. 


Are you suggesting that this is incorrect?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Sounds right to me.
Mud rings are installed prior to sheetrock, so the hole would be cut to the size of the ring.
In your case, you only have the one option to you.
After you install the ring and pull the box forward, apply compound to fill in around the ring.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

jbfan,
Thanks for the confirmation.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks jb. I have very little if any experience with plaster and lathe.


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## mcmasti (Jan 26, 2011)

*Is this OK in Ontario?*



jbfan said:


> Sounds right to me.
> Mud rings are installed prior to sheetrock, so the hole would be cut to the size of the ring.
> In your case, you only have the one option to you.
> After you install the ring and pull the box forward, apply compound to fill in around the ring.


I am in a similar situation. I've installed the box, mud ring, and GFCI outlet. Is the solution presented here (plastering up to the ring) OK under the Ontario Electrical Code?


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

It is not a "solution". It is SOP. :thumbsup:

IMO you should remove the device before plastering.


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