# Dealing with iron bacteria stricken water softener, advice?



## lilh2o3 (Jan 19, 2009)

Shocking the well will help for a short time but the problem will probablly come back. If you have a galvanized tank or an aeration tank that could be the problem. If you dont have any sulfur (rotten egg odor) in your water you could switch to a diaphram tank, that would help alot. If you dont want to switch styles of tanks then try flushing the tank every month. As far as the softener I would replace it if it is old but just be warry that if the problem of the iron bacteria is not corrected the new softener will be fouled out in a short time. In Iowa we use Hydrogen Peroxide to treat Iron bacteria it works good. Chlorine will work but the smell is hard to get use to and it destroys everything.


----------



## jaros bros. (Jan 16, 2009)

A friend had this problem. Have you gotten a test to make sure it is iron bacteria. If it is there two different methods that I know of. One is an automatic tablet dispenser that automatically releases tablets down into your well. You will then need to remove the chlorine out with a charcoal filter. You could also install an inline system which will include a large storage tank and then a charcoal filter as well.


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

The good news is, no stink. I do have a galvanized pressure tank. 

I am aware that the bacteria can come back, but the house sat unoccupied for at least 6 months when it was in forclosure. I am just looking to tame it. I definitely don't want to have to replace softeners every year though... 

Just not sure how to best handle it. Thanks so much for the advice!

Evan


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, it was tested to be iron bacteria. I had no idea it was present before they tested my water. The water softener company suggested the shock treatment. 

Evan


----------



## jaros bros. (Jan 16, 2009)

If that doesn't work you will have to spend about $1200 or so for the fixes I mentioned, maybe more. The tablet dropper just keeps on shocking the well water with the chlorine tablets.


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

What type of pump do you have?

Submeris or a jack pump

How old is the pump?

If it is a jack pump then your casing is more than likely a iron case. That in its self may be your problem.


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

First, let me tell you guys that I don't intend to come across as a know it all! I want to gather as much information as possible before I let the water companies come out and suggest solutions. I am willing to pay what it takes to fix this properly. 

My current softener is 20yr old or so, and I have no idea how it lasted this long. 

My pump is in the ground. My pressure tank is galvanized. I have been considering replacing it. I know a bladder tank isn't terribly expensive. My concern with the old tank was its proximity (back wall) to a lot of very expensive electronics gear I have been collecting over the years. My dad had one spring a leak and it peed everywhere!

I am just afraid that the companies coming in to give me advice/help are just going to sell me whatever is easiest for them and not necessarily sell me what is best for the situation. 

Evan


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't think anyone here thinks you are know it all..after all you are here:thumbsup:

First I wouldn't call Culligan or any water company out. I'm sure they have some knowledge about well systems but, I would look in the phone book or go to a local plumbing supply house and ask who does well service in the area. Then I would have a well man out.

A steel or fiberglass tank would be far better than that old galv tank..also they come in many sizes. The well man will be able to help you size and identify any problem you have and find the ones you don't know about.

Heck I'm a licensed plumber and I use a well man. One part is because I can pull the permit and he can't but he's been doing this type of work for 25 yrs. What a vast pool of knowledge.

We met up about 3 yrs ago when my well was doing the same thing as yours..except I had a jack pump and metal casing. Drilled new well, new pump, new pressure tank and lines...MUCH BETTER 

Just my $.02


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

I think today Ill go next door and ask him if he has had any trouble with iron bacteria. Ill bet he is oblivious to it though. His well is very close to mine, within 50'.

Thanks guys. I do know a local well company, or two rather, that may be able to help. 

Evan


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Two wells close to each other can have completely concerns. 

Many factors

Well depth
Well casing
Well pump
Well piping
Pressure tank design
Underground rock/dirt/layer formation
Aquifer

So you neighbor may or may not have any of the concerns you have.

My well is 270 feet deep and water table is 170 ft. Go a 1/4 mile in any direction from my well and well are 120-135 deep.

Iron in the water may come from the well but what I have seen is that if you are getting discoloration it more than likely your system.
Now, you can get the rotten egg smell Hydrogen Sulfate and you and your neighbor can both have and will come from the water. Really easy to treat.
If the well man or water guy says to install a clorine pellet drop..DON'T
Pellets sometimes do not dissolve all the way and can build up around the pump which will make it a mother F*%$$$ to pull down the road. Yea it takes several years to make this formation around the pump but, if the pump and system are sizer correctly it will be several years before service is needed.

Back to subject. All you have to do is go to Wal-Mart or any place and get 5% bleach and pour it down the well. Basically you are shocking the well and about 1 gl will do the trick.


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Alright, well that gives me a place to start. I suppose shocking it myself wouldn't hurt. I was quoted 400ish to have it shocked and tested by a local well company. 

I don't like the idea of adding a tablet dropper either. The opinion of my local well guy was to try shocking it myself to see if I could control it, then shock it with bleach every 6-8 months to keep everything in good order. My other concern is introducing a ton of bleach/chlorine to my septic. Surely that can't be too good for it. 

Now, is there any hope for my softener I currently have? I see media is available online to replace it. Not sure if this is worthwhile, or if mine can be backflushed and cleaned out. 

Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. 

Evan


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

How to shock a well

Remove the top cover on the well.

Depending on the well pit or pit less adapter either way I add bleach this way. I have an old section garden hose about 10' in length attached to a funnel. I put the hose down the well so that the bleach doesn't get on the pit adapter. I then pour 1 gl of bleach 5%. In your case I probably do 2 or 3 gl since this well hasn't been clorinated in sometime. LET THE WELL SET FOR 12-24 hrs or try to take short shower and try to consume less water to allow the bleach to work. After 24 hrs turn on an outside hydrant and let it run until you can barely smell the bleach.

If you are in the shower and there is a strong bleach smell then you need to flush out more. A large amount of bleach ordors in the shower can cause lungs to get a burn-NOT GOOD

As i said use the outside hydrant/garden hose connection to flush system. This way it won't go down into the septic tank. I always recommend to flush a box of rid-x to help stablize the bacteria in the septic

Where do you live? 
Do you know the hardness of your water? Maybe you don't need a softner

On my well I have soft water. Dakota aquifer. I have the water come into the house go through a sediment filter than a large carbon filter (for taste) and then into a UV for bacteria.

For water to drink we use an RO system


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

I live in south central WI, near Madison. and when I had soft water I had no spots on dishes etc.. from the dishwasher. Everything comes out noticeably spotty. The water treatment guys told me that the water was hard, but didn't say how hard because I didn't let the petcock drain for long enough before I pulled my sample. 

I actually have 5 gallons of bleach, because I had to bleach the concrete in the basement when we moved in due to pet odors. Ill follow your advice one of these weekends. Ill go ahead and shock it then leave town for the weekend to let it sit. 

Thanks for your input. Ill shock it myself and have it retested then go from there. 

Evan


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

DO you know the depth of your well?

After you shock your well be prepared to let it run for close to 12 hrs to flush the system.
I will turn on the hose over night about 1/2 way open


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

I am not sure of depth, this house was a foreclosure so there are quite a few mysteries I have worked through so far. 

I was told that I would need to open the petcocks on the front and rear of the house for about 8 hours to purge the system. Half open and running for 12 or so hours is more logical. I was afraid of burning out the pump by running it at 100% duty cycle essentially. 

We have company in town this weekend and the following, so Ill do it after that. I can also build a pressure tank out of a 5 gallon bucket and use my air compressor to force the fluid down the hose and into the well. 

This should be interesting, Ill no doubt ruin at least one set of clothing LOL.

Evan


----------



## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Can you post a pic of the pit


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Its raining like crazy here right now. Ill try to sneak out tomorrow and get some pictures when it lets up. Ill snap some photos of the pressure tank etc.. as well. 

Evan


----------



## lilh2o3 (Jan 19, 2009)

For a water softener contact a watercare dealer. Watercare.com 
They will know what you are talking about and beable to help you out alot better than culligan. I think there names are Gibsons or Ensings. Not sure which one is closer. Ask for the caredoft line of softeners they are the best on the market.


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Sorry I haven't followed up! I have been sicker than a dog and been dealing with damage control at work. 

Evan


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

The moment you all have been waiting for, photos. I think I can see iron bacteria scum in the well. Ill be doing the shock this coming weekend. Should I run the faucets to shock the pipes in the house along with the pressure tank etc?

Thanks!














































Evan


----------



## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

You have steel casing and a brass pitless adapter and it looks like you have a 3 wire pump with an above ground control box because of the 4 conductor cable; 2 hots, a start and a ground wires. 

IRB (iron reducing bacteria) is made up of numerous types or aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that live in and under water in and on the earth. They are harmless but produce slime and encrustations that can reduce well production. They can produce odor problems and they can colonize a softener etc.. You can sanitize the softener with like a half cup of bleach and a manual regeneration stopping it in the Brining position for like 15-20 minutes and then plugging it back in and allowing it to finish on its own. DO NOT MIX bleach with any type of resin cleaner like Iron Out etc..

Shocking a well cab cause serious pump, water quality, cable and drop pipe problems. Repeated shocking of a well can make an IRB problem worse because they produce slime and encrustations that chlorine can not penetrate. Then you get into well cleaning and/or rehabilitation if it can be done.

Pellet droppers should only be used when absolutely needed. They can cause pump and cable problems but if the dose is fine tuned those problems don't happen; especially in a 5" or larger diameter well as you have.

About 99% of all softeners can have the resin replaced. Most control valves like Autotrol, Clack, Erie or Fleck can be rebuilt very affordably. Many national brands use those brands of control valves but don't tell you which one but it's easy to find pictures on the internet and compare. Some of those national brands use a proprietary version of the stock valves; like most of WaterCare valves.

You haven't said how much of a problem the IRB is. It may not be the cause of your softener's problem.

Any odor to this water?

How much iron in the water?

How much hardness?

What is the pH?

Are you interested in being a DIYer or do you want to be dependent on a local dealer for service and parts?


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Okay I have done a little more research;

My hardness is 13 grains right now, pre softener. 

I don't know how big of a problem the bacteria really is, there is no funky smell or anything offensive. The ONLY reason I am concerned about it is that my water softener stopped working and the water treatment company suggested that it was clogged with Iron bacteria. 

Now, this softener is OLD! Like 20 years +. It seems to cycle normally and there are no real apparent issues with it. It just won't soften.

I purchased a new kenmore unit with auto regeneration etc.. to cut down on salt use. There is only two of us living here at this time. Hypothetically I can return it.

If the iron bacteria is gauranteed to kill a softener every 10 years, whatever. I can live with that. This unit failed within a year of me moving in. 

I find it hard to believe that the previous owner shocked the well or did anything to maintain it judging by the rest of the house. 

So are you saying I can essentially force feed it bleach in an attempt to clean out the brine tank? That would be amazing. Ill do it tonight. How would I introduce the bleach into the softener? Putting it into the brine tank? 

I am definitely a DIY'er and do not trust water treatment companies to be square with me.. I am very hands on, and very stubborn when it comes to paying people for advice and work that I don't trust. 

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Evan


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Gary, I understand your concern as far as the softener goes, the place that my softener came from is hellenbrand. 

How much does resin cost and where do I get it? How much would I need? The resin tank is about 8-10" diameter and 4' tall or so. I just put new timer in my old softener so essentially the only other thing that can go wrong is the valves. 

I do have the iron sludge crap in my toilet tanks etc... so I am pretty confident that there is iron bacteria. My only real concern is keeping it from ruining my water softener. 

Evan

EDIT; Just added bleach and started the regeneration process.


----------



## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

But if the toilet tank hadn't been cleaned in years, you may not have enough IRB in the water to do anything to the softener. To treat IRB you must kill it with a disinfectant like chlorine of ozone, hydrogen peroxide usually doesn't work well on reducing type of bacteria.

You can buy resin from any online or most local dears. An 8" diameter tank, the model number on the label gives you the size, an 844 is a 3/4 cuft and 948 is a 1 cuft etc..


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

How long is normal for a cycle time for a water softener? I just replaced the timer on it because it was noisy and dying. I just turned the softener to regenerate and it didn't even seem to be moving....... it stayed on backflush for over an hour??

Thanks!

EDIT; 

Aw man! I just figured out that I left out a spring washer that engages the assembly to ensure it moves through the cycles at the correct speed. I took it apart and was confused as to how it worked.. then I saw the SS spring washer sitting right in front of my face. 

DUH. 

Not sure if the softener is working correctly still. I think the diagnosis of iron bacteria is accurate. There is a fairly gross film on top of my brine tank. I also replaced the sediment filter which was downright nasty. Red as could be. It was doing its job. Maybe the skin is somewhat normal ontop of the brine water but I don't remember it being that bad when we moved in. I took the brine tank out and power washed it before we moved in. In the last year it has gotten scummier (is that a word?) than it was when we moved in. 

Evan


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Gary, I have a fleck 5600 valve on this unit BTW. I figured that out after looking at your site. I also found a local source for resin, I have today off so I am going to go get some. 

Evan


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Alright, took the bull by the horns and replaced the resin and rock today. Man, thats pretty easy stuff...

Thank you for your encouragement.. now hopefully it works!

Gary, I tried emailing you through your site without any luck. Please send me an email regarding a rebuild kit for the 5600. 

Evan

BTW; The resin and rock was so inexpensive @ 100 bucks that I decided to leave the well and see how long it takes to clog this media up...


----------



## jabass (Nov 9, 2008)

*sanitizing the well and water system*

Here is one of many websites: http://www.fcs.uga.edu/pubs/PDF/HACE-858-4.pdf or http://www.thehome-inspection.com/waterwells.htm ( google to find many more) that tell you how to sanitize your well and all your plumbing. If your Ph is very high (above 8 or so) you may not get the effect you want for the given amount of chorline suggested. Also be sure to include all your indoor piping (including the water heater) when you introuce chorine into the home. Note that you should "backflush" your softener after you let the water stand for 24 hours or so, before you clear the water lines. This should help eliminate your current problem with the softener hopefully.

The one thing to pick out of the info is that if you have a high concentration of iron in your well , there is a high probability that you will have to continually deal with iron bacteria occuring.

_ HAVE FOUND IN MY 150 FT. WELL THAT THE CHORINE SMELL IS GONE IN A FEW HOURS AFTER TURNING ON AN OUTSIDE FAUCET. If you R concerned about the pump when you run the water to clear the chorine, then run the water faucet in increments. _

_I have to deal with iron bacteria also, but after doing a shock cholorination once a year, I only drop a few tablets down the well once a month and it seems to keep the problem from coming back (I have an acitivated (centaur) carbon whole house filter to keep the cholrine out of my water lines). An alternative to placing the cholrine oin the well is to have a holding tank, as previously suggested and install a chorinator chmical feeder. There R other ways as well(from one vendor's source):_
_Injection__ of small amounts of chlorine directly into water line with no retention tank, and not using well for retention. Most commonly used for sulfur smell (rotten egg smell) removal. Most inexpensive method of chlorination. _*OR:*
(2) _Chlorination Inside the well itself (using the well as a retention tank) _*OR: *
(3) _Chlorination Outside the well with an add on retention tank _*OR:* 
_(4) Chlorine/Aeration Open-Air System_

_Good luck_​


----------



## 240sx4u (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks for the help, Ill check out your suggestions and information. I appreciate it. 

My water looks a hint of orange if viewed in a gallon container. 

Evan


----------



## deoeee (May 9, 2009)

*More iron bacteria questions*

Hi - I'm new to this forum. I found it googling when I was told I had minute traces of iron bacteria in my new well. It seems there are some pretty informative people here so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Here goes: 

1. We sometimes notice pale yellow water in the toilet bowl and that's when we requested water testing. We have a water softener and use rustout softener tables. Is the yellow from the bacteria? Or the rust? Shouldn't the iron out softener tablets remove the color? If we eliminate the iron as the water comes into the house, wouldn't that also take care of the bacteria as there is no source/food for it to thrive?

2. I understand the chlorine shock treatment is hard on a septic system so you don't let the clorine treatment go through it. What about the iron bacteria in the septic system. Will it grow and clog that also? Or will the Rid-X (as suggested here) keep that from happening?

3. How did the iron bacteria get in my well? Was it contamination when the well was drilled, or is the bacteria naturally there? If the bacteria is naturally there, does well depth make a difference? Is it more apt to occur in a deep well, versus a shallower well, or vice versa?

Thanks for any help you can give!


----------



## lilh2o3 (Jan 19, 2009)

There is no reason for why iron bacteria shows up it just does. It doesnt need iron to live all it needs is dissolved oxygen. As for the iron remover salt it does not remove iron it actually just helps clean the cation resin that is in a water softener. it will not alone "remove" iron from water.


----------



## lilh2o3 (Jan 19, 2009)

I read that someone metioned a pellets chlorinator that drops tabs down a well. That is a BIG NO NO. It will destroy a well by either rotting out the casing if it is a steel well or the pellets will build up around the pump and when the pump needs to come out of the hole it will be stuck!! (steel or PVC casing it doesnt matter). So just a friendly worning dont use them!!!!


----------



## notenoughtime (May 15, 2009)

visit http://www.equinox-products.com/MetalMaster.htm for product to place upstream of water softner.


One other option may be to use a filter containing nanoalumina particles...google Argonide or Ahlstrom disruptor.


----------



## lilh2o3 (Jan 19, 2009)

The first thing mentioned above is called metalease it was developed by a compnay called safewater tech. in chicago ill. It works, sometimes but i have had bad luck with it. The second thing called microfiltration it is used in some bottled water manufactuers but is a fairly new technology and very expensive for a single home. (so ive heard never priced one out)


----------



## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

I R B = iron reducing/related bacteria. 

From the name alone it says IRB eats iron, no? And most things that run out of food die right? Right. IRB doesn't need iron... wrong. 

As the colony increases in size, they eat themselves out of their food source and the colony collapses. The iron content of the water will fall while the colony is growing and then increase as the colony dies off, that is one cause of fluctuating iron in well water.

The BARTS tests prove IRB eat iron, it's why 70% is it of the Titanic is gone. And that's where IRB was identified, and made the guy that proved his theory that there was an iron eatig bacteria, a very wealthy man. That was about 20 years ago, right after the Titanic was found.

Pellet droppers done right are not the problem most guys gossip about, and most guys that are against them and gossip about them, have never sold one. I've sold a small number of them over the last 15 years and they work very well IF you can and will pay atention to detail and get it right. They require fine tuning after installation, but once tuned properly, they use very little chlorine and so far I've not heard of any problems from any of my customers.


----------



## Huskymaniac (Sep 27, 2015)

Moved to new thread....


----------

