# 2 in 1 Paint w/Primer - Anyone Tried It?



## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

here we go again. maybe i should stay out of this one.:whistling2:


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## m1951mm (Apr 16, 2011)

I will try to help you out a bit Mike.

You get what you pay for!!!!!!!!!!!!

The box store paints (HD, Lowes,Walmart) are there for the novices!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even the Cheapest paint from SW or BM will give you better proformance then the high end at the box stores.

If you are going to live with this paint for any time span, do yourself a favor and go with ANYTHING but what the box stores have available. 

Price is one thing, but if you are going to live with it for 3 or 4+ years, please think what the small difference in cost is to get something that will look good and last -- not even to mention the ease of application and touch up.

Good, I did not have to add to the I hate Behr thread to get my thoughts in.


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## m1951mm (Apr 16, 2011)

I forgot to address the issue of paint and primer in one. IMHO there is not such an animal. Both have different chemical compoisition. For best results I would use a primer, tinted close to my finish coat, and then do the finish coat. A good primer goes a long way, and after doing the primer the second coat needs a lot less paint. You do have to make sure to back roll or roll LOTS, without pressing on the roller, lol,. It is to late in the day for me to get the right words> There are some great tips about rolling and what rollers to use here on this site. JSheridan, I think is the one who has WONDERFUL input as far as the process in doing a good paint job.

Do some more searching on this site and you will get some great advice!!!!!


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

m1951mm said:


> I will try to help you out a bit Mike.
> 
> You get what you pay for!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 i here you m but remember they dont get the prices we do. am a s/w guy but if i did not get my prices id go big box in a minuet.valspare contractor 2000 about 22 dollars rocks


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

ANY acrylic based paint can make the primer claim. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A PRIMER DOES? It can do about 5 or 8 very different things- each solving a different problem. Unless you can answer this question , you need more info.
All that claim says is it can cover mud. The easiest of all primer problems. Other than that- nope. 
If your repainting over existing, you probably don't need a primer, so of course it will work! dah. 
Learn, then do.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

mustangmike3789 said:


> not all behr paints are created equal, some are worse than others. the problem i have with behr is that they market it as a superior product and price it as one too. there are much better paints on the market for the same price or even a lower price. the product data sheets are very vague and could possibly confuse the average DIY person that they maket toward. paint and primer in one data sheets show recommended primer/systems for certain applications such as an oil primer or primer sealer for new plaster,drywall or tannins under the section "properly prepared surfaces" and then go on to say(2 coats minimum required on new or uncoated surfaces). 2 coats of what? primer? finish paint after primer? this does not look like a "paint and primer in one" to me. to me it looks like you may need 2 coats of primer and 2 or more coats of finish paint. the only place that i can find where it says 2 coats of paint only, is over properly prepared painted surfaces. that can be achieved with most paints anyway when priming is not needed. does this make all paints " paint and primer in one"? if this were a true paint and primer in one, you would assume that you would use one coat as a primer and two coats as a finish over any surface like the advertising suggest. it is not marketed that way and the data sheets do not support this either.


this was posted in another forum but it applies here too.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> ANY acrylic based paint can make the primer claim. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A PRIMER DOES? It can do about 5 or 8 very different things- each solving a different problem. Unless you can answer this question , you need more info.
> All that claim says is it can cover mud. The easiest of all primer problems. Other than that- nope.
> If your repainting over existing, you probably don't need a primer, so of course it will work! dah.
> Learn, then do.


 i know, i know! some paints will only bond to certain surfaces(aluminum). adding a primer(etching primer) that will bond to that certain surface(aluminum) will create a new surface that will allow the desired finish paint that would normally not bond to this surface have something to bite to. thank you, no problem.... any other questions????:thumbup: do we need more examples?


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## vsheetz (Sep 28, 2008)

When doing our near whole house remodel year before last, I was recommended by the guy I had helping with drywall to use Dunn Edwards primer and paint in one. This over new drywall, existing painted drywall, and lots of drywall patching (several interior walls were removed - leaving lots of gashes to fix). We applied just two coats - using 15 gallons. It covered great, went on great, and lools great. This year have a room addition project and additional remodeling - planning to use the same from Dunn Edwards again.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

vsheetz said:


> When doing our near whole house remodel year before last, I was recommended by the guy I had helping with drywall to use Dunn Edwards primer and paint in one. This over new drywall, existing painted drywall, and lots of drywall patching (several interior walls were removed - leaving lots of gashes to fix). We applied just two coats - using 15 gallons. It covered great, went on great, and lools great. This year have a room addition project and additional remodeling - planning to use the same from Dunn Edwards again.


im sure it does *look* good. but the real question IS? how well is it bonded? what were your results or how well did it perform according to ASTM D3359-09 on the product data sheets for paint adhesion testing and performance standards that most quality paints are tested and subject to for performance over certain surfaces. just curious!:whistling2:


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## vsheetz (Sep 28, 2008)

mustangmike3789 said:


> im sure it does *look* good. but the real question IS? how well is it bonded? what were your results or how well did it perform according to ASTM D3359-09 and ASTM D7234-05 on the product data sheets for paint adhesion testing and performance standards that most quality paints are tested and subject to for performance over certain surfaces. just curious!:whistling2:


Stand by while I get that data for you. :whistling2:

:thumbsup:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

For the umpteenth time. Primers, underlays and paint are different animals. They do not, nor will they ever come in the same can:furious:. If you buy into the nonsense you are falling for pure, unsubstantiated marketing hype.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Primers need a certain percentage of ingredients to work properly. Paints need a certain percentage of different ingredients to work properly. You do the math.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

And there is no way a nice alkyd primer or enamel underlay suspended in oil base solvents is going to work in the same can as a superior 100 percent acrylic latex used as a finish coat! Mixing oil and water that way? You would end up with a muddy looking version of this...


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## HomesteadHero (Jun 8, 2011)

I've used Behr in my home for years and I have NEVER had paint fall off my walls for lack of adhesion. I've used Walmart brand in my home too and again, NEVER had the paint fall off the walls. It looks AS GOOD NOW at it did 3 years ago when I put it on the walls. It cleans up great and I didn't have to pay $35 a gallon. And IF it fails for some unknown reason in another 3 years, I'm sure by that time I'll be sick of the color and ready to change it anyway. 

And yes, SW is fine paint, if you're looking to spend a small fortune. If Behr gave deep contractor discounts everyone would be using it. People use the brand who saves them the most money. 

As for DIY'ers, as this site *IS*-- there's nothing wrong with Behr, Glidden, Color Place or Valspar. 

No one has answered the question: HAVE YOU TRIED IT?
Paint and Primer in one paints are THICK. They go on thick and usually don't require a second coat. If you want to paint with it, do it. It's YOUR house, no one elses. No one on this site will give you an objective opinion on the subject-- just their emotional reactions to the question. :wallbash:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Last time I used Behr primer and paint in one it was donated to a NFP for whom I volunteer. Took three coats to cover and I found it hard to work with as compared to what I am accustomed to. I guess it is sticking to the walls.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Homestead ( and others) 
The point is AGAIN- if your painting over paint, the whole primer thing is mute ( unless you're needing adhesion over a very glossy surface like oil enamel or varnish) Go ahead! Paint! - use whatever! I'll use stuff that works well and covers great.
But if you have an actual NEED FOR A PRIMER- do you know what that need is? And can you say it, out loud?
Primers are problem solvers. If you don't have a problem, you don't need one. If you do- use a primer. 
Really simple.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Brush is right, primers are problem solvers, and are not always required when *re*-painting, unless of course you have a problem. Most primers handle about two-three different solutions, but rarely are they "universal". Glossy surface with tannin knots would require BIN shellac, which sticks to gloss *and *covers knots. Without the knots, Cover Stain would cover the gloss issue. If ultimately finishing new drywall with a sheen, you're better using an underbody (sealer) versus a flat, straight drywall primer. The only time I would prime entire previously painted surfaces is on a low budget job where I might use a tinted bonding primer as the first coat to skip the sanding, if the surface is particularly old and the paint surface is degraded, or the amount of spot priming is so extensive that a full prime is easier and more effective. But, as said, you have to know the problem you need to solve prior to choosing the primer. As to what Mustang said, when you press the companies on whether the primer/paint will work in your particular situation, they have always replied that it's better to prime using conventional primer. They're talking out of both sides of their mouths.


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## carpenal (Feb 28, 2011)

Faron79 had the best response to this i've seen... Sometimes, a little thinking can get you the answer you're looking for. Credit goes to Faron79 for this text.

Where I work, we sometimes kid the people asking about the "All in ones"....

Sometimes I'll say-
"How does the PRIMER in the can know how to get to the wall FIRST....?!"

THAT usually gets-'em thinking!
THEN...they often realize what bunk it is!

Besides....
IT'S NOT REALLY A SEPARATE "Primer" in the can anyway!!!

>>>> The main resins themselves are often made a little "denser", thereby taking on "kind of" a primer function. But is it really a separate primer....?!?!?

H#ll NO!

Faron


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Yea that sums 'er up pretty good. Going have to remember that one! 
Thanks Faron!


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

These products are marketed as miracle paints, where everything is coated in one application. Most premium products in any paint line (specifically on drywall) are self-priming. What this means is that you don't need a separate primer. I agree completely that primers are mandatory on metal, wood, and other substrates. My problem with this terminology is that the consumer or applicator will skip necessary preparation steps.


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## kuj0317 (Jul 12, 2011)

*There is no such thing as paint+primer*

Priming is a PROCESS which you do prior to painting. If you do not prime the wall, then you are just painting.

These products are marketed as "paint+primer combo" substances, but they are not. They are simply paints for which the MFR deemed you do not have to prime beforehand.

Personally, if you are doing anything but the smallest (<1 gal) job, its worth it to prime before you paint. 

-K


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## Gatorb8 (Jun 8, 2011)

m1951mm said:


> I will try to help you out a bit Mike.
> 
> You get what you pay for!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


No disrespect intended, but your statement regarding the best big box paint not being equal to the worst factory paint store lines completely wipes away any validity to your post. You can't tell me, with a straight face, that SW PMC is or Property Solutions is equal to a Lowes High End, THD High End, Ace High End or whoevers high end paint. There are tremendous differences in the amount and types of solids used in these paints. Now, if you stated factory paint store high ends are better than big box high ends I might or might not agree depending on the brand or sub-brand. One of the biggest factors is the type and quality of colorant used. Big Box stores typically use a lower grade of colorant which allows a cheaper price on product. This also has an effect on hide, fading, and etc.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Brushjockey said:


> Homestead ( and others)
> The point is AGAIN- if your painting over paint, the whole primer thing is mute ( unless you're needing adhesion over a very glossy surface like oil enamel or varnish) Go ahead! Paint! - use whatever! I'll use stuff that works well and covers great.
> But if you have an actual NEED FOR A PRIMER- do you know what that need is? And can you say it, out loud?
> Primers are problem solvers. If you don't have a problem, you don't need one. If you do- use a primer.
> Really simple.


Mute= silence Moot = pointless!


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## Gatorb8 (Jun 8, 2011)

m1951mm said:


> I will try to help you out a bit Mike.
> 
> You get what you pay for!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Again, no disrespect intended, this is a DIY Chatroom which would typically imply a "Novice". Sorry, it frustrates me when I see posts that push people to pay more for a product than absolutely necessary. Tons of people change their color combinations based on trends and what not. My wife is a perfect example. If I followed your advice to shop at a factory paint store I would be bankrupt paying for paint. It really depends on your taste, style, and frequency. If you like change go Big Box. If you like to paint it and leave it go Factory.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Gatorb8 said:


> Again, no disrespect intended, this is a DIY Chatroom which would typically imply a "Novice". Sorry, it frustrates me when I see posts that push people to pay more for a product than absolutely necessary. Tons of people change their color combinations based on trends and what not. My wife is a perfect example. If I followed your advice to shop at a factory paint store I would be bankrupt paying for paint. It really depends on your taste, style, and frequency. If you like change go Big Box. If you like to paint it and leave it go Factory.


Absurd! If money and frequent color changes are the client issues I will pick paint store contractor grade from a real paint store over box store crap any day and save money. It will apply like paint, not water with some pigment in it too! Of course most of my clients would have fired me on the spot bringing any Behrly or Valspurt on to their property.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

BM "ben" ( a fine mid grade paint) is about the same $ as Behr. 
SW Super paint is also.

I did a job a couple of weeks ago with Behr Ultra. Worked ok. 
I do not like buying custom colors from HD though. Never real sure what you are going to get.
And don't ask for advice. I have to bite my tongue standing there listening to some of the "advice" being given.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Brushjockey said:


> BM "ben" ( a fine mid grade paint) is about the same $ as Behr.
> SW Super paint is also.
> 
> I did a job a couple of weeks ago with Behr Ultra. Worked ok.
> ...


 
you got that right:laughing:


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## Gatorb8 (Jun 8, 2011)

sdsester said:


> Absurd! If money and frequent color changes are the client issues I will pick paint store contractor grade from a real paint store over box store crap any day and save money. It will apply like paint, not water with some pigment in it too! Of course most of my clients would have fired me on the spot bringing any Behrly or Valspurt on to their property.


To each his own... I have a former SW chemist who sits in the office next door to me that would die laughing at this post. And no, I do not work in the paint industry. Could care less which products get purchased as long as the end result is accomplished.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Gatorb8 said:


> To each his own... I have a former SW chemist who sits in the office next door to me that would die laughing at this post. And no, I do not work in the paint industry. Could care less which products get purchased as long as the end result is accomplished.


My Mom was an analytical chemist and research librarian for what is now Valspar. She is long gone but would cringe at what the paint she worked so hard to perfect has turned into. 

Lay you 10 to 1 odds your chemist co-worker has never had to apply paint on a regular basis.


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## paintersforhire (Nov 25, 2014)

*paint*



leeave96 said:


> Shopping around for paint, I notice that Sherwin Williams, Lowes (valspar duramax) and Walmart (Glidden) have a 100% acrylic latex paint that is both paint and primer in the same can.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this type of paint?
> 
> ...


glidden and sherwin williams 2 in 1 work good still usually a double coat . ,but using a flat paint frist as primer and than your good dunn edwards or s.w. ppg gliddon. behr. all make very good paint products for finish paint job.ppg makes avery good primer also s.w. so it all depends on what your working with .also sheepskin nap for best coverage is a must 3/4.matt from p f h


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Looks like we have a spammer, ugh!


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Looks like more than one today:yes:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nice bowl of word salad.


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