# Spark Plugs



## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

The top one especially looks pretty bad. I wouldn't even consider putting them back in unless 1) they are all really easy to get to, and 2) I could save alot on replacements by ordering them and swapping them out in a week or so.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I agree. Insulators are gray, and that's good. Gaps are helter skelter, so they weren't performing well. I, too would just change them, since you have them out. Futile to try and clean and regap and reinstall old plugs. Not worth the effort.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> Futile to try and clean and regap and reinstall old plugs. Not worth the effort.


For those plugs, in order to not ruin them completely, you'd have to regap them by eyeball approximation. If you put anything into the gap, you'll ruin the platinum (or iriduim?) tips and destroy the plug.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

If you have a wire brush, gap gage and the spec for the proper gap, you are good to go.

Otherwise, buy new plugs.

Anybody know if its a problem to file the tips on modern plugs ? I think a lot of them today have expensive alloys like platinum on the tips, so I doubt the expensive alloys are very thick.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

Put some anti seize on them and installed them back. It’s quite quick for me. Ordered new ones online. Hope it solves the misfires codes I have been getting. 

Next after that possibly coil packs. 
So many possibilities with a vw you could throw parts forever and never get it right. 


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Replace your plug wires and change the plugs.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Put some anti seize on them and installed them back.


Did you re gap them?? I see that as a possible reason for throwing a code.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree, new plugs gapped correctly, still an issue a simple code would tell you what the issue is, but beware!
I went through this poop on a truck I own.
It was running like poop and was unusable.
Everyone told me to take it to a local garage that was Ford "experts". 
The real Ford dealer told me it would be two weeks for an appointment!
I asked them to change the plugs since they had 80,000 miles on them, and I had already bought them, then run a code check.
They ran the check and told me it was a sensor, but had no clue which one so they gave me an estimate to change all 4 of them for over $1000.00, and even then that might not fix it.
I passed, took it some place else and within 10 min, he found a vacuum leak in a hose and fixed it for far less then $50.00.
The same guy fixed my front brakes, I'd had the front disk and pads replaced 3 times in less then a year, costing me over $1000.00!
First thing he asked me before doing anything is did they replace the rubber hose to the caliper?
He replaced the hoses for less then $100.00 and never had another issue.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

joecaption said:


> I agree, new plugs gapped correctly, still an issue a simple code would tell you what the issue is, but beware!
> I went through this poop on a truck I own.
> It was running like poop and was unusable.
> Everyone told me to take it to a local garage that was Ford "experts".
> ...


Ya could be a vacume leak. Wish I could find the leak on my own. Don’t know how. Don’t you need smoke?


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

What are the specific codes your getting? 

If the issue persists, and if the misfire is just one cylinder, start moving the coil packs around and see if the misfire follows one of the packs.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Don’t you need smoke?



No, all you need is a length of 1/4" tubing. Hold it to your ear and move the other end in the engine compartment. You'll find it.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SPS-1 said:


> If you have a wire brush, gap gage and the spec for the proper gap, you are good to go.


Not with those plugs. If you brush or scrape the little platinum dot off the electrode, the plug is toast.


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## SpentPenny (Dec 15, 2020)

When in doubt throw it out. Wires too. As cheap as they are it is not worth your time to even think about it.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

SpentPenny said:


> As cheap as they are it is not worth your time to even think about it.


Spark plugs are not so cheap anymore. Iridium, platinum and the such are required to meet the emissions service intervals.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

If I go to the trouble of removing plugs, I replace them.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

SPS-1 said:


> Spark plugs are not so cheap anymore. Iridium, platinum and the such are required to meet the emissions service intervals.


I agree but only if your vehicle specifies platinum, iridium, etc. Otherwise you are wasting $$ on fancy over marketed overhyped plugs.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Are there any cars that don't need fancy plugs ?
I think its been a long time that cars have been required to go 100,000 miles between service on emissions related parts.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

They look like they are doing the job for a long time. Yes there is wear, there should be wear.
I would change them only because they are out. Be sure to gap them to the right spacing.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

papereater said:


> I agree but only if your vehicle specifies platinum, iridium, etc. Otherwise you are wasting $$ on fancy over marketed overhyped plugs.


It depends on how hard they are to get to. I'm getting ready to replace the plugs on my Toyota Sienna. Looks like about a 3 hour job to replace the back ones. Not only did I buy the 100,000 mile plugs, I bought new coils to replace the ones on those 3, also.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

If you include light trucks when you say "cars", then yes. For instance, my Toyota Tacoma specifies the cheaper copper plugs and a 30,000 mile change interval. Some folks change over to iridium or platinum but I don't. They are easy enough to change, takes an hour or so. Just a little interference to remove for a couple of them. I change them at 30,000 but they always look fine and could probably go longer.



SPS-1 said:


> Are there any cars that don't need fancy plugs ?
> I think its been a long time that cars have been required to go 100,000 miles between service on emissions related parts.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

Okay. So I switched the spark plugs from cylinder one and two to three and four and vice versa. 

Still getting error codes for one and two. 
I also changed the coil packs around. 

It’s a vw 2.0 tsi

The spark plugs do look bad but I can’t help but think it is something else. I have checked for vacume leaks with water (and also carb spray).

No obvious leaks. 

Could it be possible all sparks are old but only cause cylinder one and two to misfire?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Okay. So I switched the spark plugs from cylinder one and two to three and four and vice versa.
> 
> Still getting error codes for one and two.
> I also changed the coil packs around.
> ...


It may be time to check the compression in the cylinders.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Throttle body or direct injectors? If di, perhaps a bad injector is fouling the combustion?


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

bob22 said:


> Throttle body or direct injectors? If di, perhaps a bad injector is fouling the combustion?


It’s tfsi direct injection. 


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> It’s tfsi direct injection.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Injectors for those 2 cylinders could be clogged or not functioning correctly. You could try swapping the injectors around. 

I still recommend doing a compression test, unless you opt to swap the injectors and that moves the problem.


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## rickwhoo (Nov 4, 2014)

If they're out, replace them... They look old too. Todays spark plugs don't show wear like the ones that were used years ago also. If they are over 60,000 miles on them just replace them.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

I replaced the spark plugs and now there is only a misfire in cylinder 1 not cylinder 1 and 2. I have flipped the coil packs around and it doesn’t seem to make a difference. It’s is a vw 2.0 tfsi. 

Could a bad coil pack on cylinder 2, 3, or 4 make the p301 code come up? Or does it have to be cylinder 1 to get p301?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Could a bad coil pack on cylinder 2, 3, or 4 make the p301 code come up? Or does it have to be cylinder 1 to get p301?


It's supposed to be specific to the cylinder denoted by the code. If you have new spark plugs and moving the coils around doesn't seem to affect it, it's probably time to move on to something else. Have you switched around the fuel injectors or done a compression test? It would seem one of those would be the next logical step.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yup... and in all my years and vehicles I have never actually had a failed coil or coil pack. Seems very unlikely. It would be nice if these sorts of problems always were caused by the easy thing to find and fix... but that's not how it usually works.



HotRodx10 said:


> It's supposed to be specific to the cylinder denoted by the code. If you have new spark plugs and moving the coils around doesn't seem to affect it, it's probably time to move on to something else. Have you switched around the fuel injectors or done a compression test? It would seem one of those would be the next logical step.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

My daughter has a VW Jetta (don't know the year). I know that aftermarket coil packs have caused problems as have aftermarket brake calipers. A shop with a VW certified specialist found and fixed all the problems but one, and that one is a preference rather than a problem.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

HotRodx10 said:


> It's supposed to be specific to the cylinder denoted by the code. If you have new spark plugs and moving the coils around doesn't seem to affect it, it's probably time to move on to something else. Have you switched around the fuel injectors or done a compression test? It would seem one of those would be the next logical step.


To remove the injectors you have to remove the manifold. Done it twice before and is not fun at all. When I had it off last year there was some carbon but nothing terrible. I did what I could with carb cleaner and a toothbrush / and got some off. 

I wonder if seafoam in the gas tank may be worth the try to clean the injector. Prolly low chance of working. 


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> To remove the injectors you have to remove the manifold. Done it twice before and is not fun at all. When I had it off last year there was some carbon but nothing terrible. I did what I could with carb cleaner and a toothbrush / and got some off.
> 
> I wonder if seafoam in the gas tank may be worth the try to clean the injector. Prolly low chance of working.


If it's that much trouble, I'd check the compression first, and then if that checks out, run some seafoam or other good fuel system cleaner through it (I hear alot of good things about the BG stuff, although I haven't used it myself).


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

Is it possible a bad coil pack in one of the other cylinders could cause a misfire in cylinder 1?
Using torque pro. Hope it’s accurate on vw. 


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

Gottawireitup said:


> Is it possible a bad coil pack in one of the other cylinders could cause a misfire in cylinder 1?
> Using torque pro. Hope it’s accurate on vw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry people but I wanted to bump this .... hoping to know your thoughts as I may or may not order new coil packs today. 


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Is it possible a bad coil pack in one of the other cylinders could cause a misfire in cylinder 1?
> Using torque pro. Hope it’s accurate on vw.


If you've moved the coils around, and you have new spark plugs, and the misfire consistently is in cylinder 1, then most likely, you have an issue with cylinder 1, other than the spark. 

I'll repeat - my recommendation for the next step is a compression test. It takes 30 minutes to check all the cylinders with a $20 tool, which Autozone, Advance Auto, and others will loan you for free, if you'd rather not but it.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

HotRodx10 said:


> If you've moved the coils around, and you have new spark plugs, and the misfire consistently is in cylinder 1, then most likely, you have an issue with cylinder 1, other than the spark.
> 
> I'll repeat - my recommendation for the next step is a compression test. It takes 30 minutes to check all the cylinders with a $20 tool, which Autozone, Advance Auto, and others will loan you for free, if you'd rather not but it.


Cool. I will buy one online and do the test. 
No one is lending tools out not unfortunately where I am due to COViD. Sure hope it’s not the compression. That would mean the engine is on the way out? Or just a seal? 


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## ajaye (May 19, 2019)

I don't bother with checking (just as a diagnostic) I replace.
BTW, if you have coil packs and your plugs are worn, they will take out the coil packs
as the plugs get worn the gap gets bigger so the coil pack has to do more work
on my BMW, everytime a coil pack went, there was a dodgy plug
replace


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Gottawireitup said:


> Sure hope it’s not the compression. That would mean the engine is on the way out? Or just a seal?


If the compression is low, it's typically either the rings or the valves aren't sealing. You can tell which it is by squirting a couple shots of motor oil from an oil can into the cylinder, cranking it a few times, and then doing the compression test again. If the compression improves significantly, it's the piston rings (engine rebuild), if not, it's typically a valve (head rebuild). 

If the compression is at or near zero, it could be a cracked head, a cracked cylinder sleeve, or a bad head gasket, all of which are bad, and require pulling the engine apart to find out*. Or, it could be a broken valve spring*, which is fairly easy to find and not terribly difficult to fix. If you get no compression, read on:

I had a car with that result - a cylinder misfiring (alot - like 10,000 instances recorded by the diagnostic tester (maybe not the same tester, but the same software as you're using); checked the compression - read zero. I pulled the valve cover, and plain as day, one of the valve springs had 2 coils laying together. A $20 part, a $25 in tools, and 4 hours later, it was purring like a kitten again (it's an Impala w/ 3.9L, so it growls more than purrs, but you get the idea). 

A little-known fact - *A broken valve spring can be replaced without taking the head off.* The trick is to pressurize the cylinder. That's where a compression tester with quick-connect fittings comes in handy. Just screw it in and connect to an air compressor. With 100psi in the cylinder, the valve stays up while the spring is replaced. *If you decide to have someone do this work, be sure to find a mechanic who will do it this way.*

Btw, if you read 2 adjacent cylinders with really low or no compression, it's likely a head gasket, which is a bigger job, but not 'death of the engine' big.


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## Gottawireitup (Dec 15, 2018)

Still at a loss why I am getting a misfire. 
Today pulled the cylinder one and two plus and there are little bits of oil. 

Nothing major. From the first photo of the plugs that were in for years you can tell. Just trace amounts. 

I am assuming the valve cover gasket needs to be replaced. 

That said is this possibly the reason for my misfires? The new plugs don’t have oil on them. 

But maybe some air coming leaking?

I don’t have the code for p302 only p301 but both cylinders are the same. In terms of oil drop. 


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## Octane (Feb 13, 2021)

Gottawireitup said:


> How bad or not bad do these look?
> 
> View attachment 654168
> 
> ...


Worn out.


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