# Trafficmaster Allure - Underlayment?



## KKaye

*allure trafficmaster*

I just spoke with a man that has worked with this flooring and has nothing but good to say about it..he spoke of underlayments, gave tips on installing etc..you can call him at the Home Depot Store in Marysville, WA in flooring and ask for OWEN..he is there today and tomorrow 9 a.m. PDT today and tomorrow and off Wed and possibly Thurs but is there also on Weekends, He is most helpul and chock full of information because of his tremendous experience with it outside of the Home Depot environment. If you can't get the number..look up Home Depot main site and search for stores..they will give you the number and then the recording gives you the single number for flooring dept..Good luck:thumbup:


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## HuskySkull

Thanks KK!


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## WILDLILY

Huskyskull- We put down Traffic Master Allure and I actually came to this site to see if anyone experienced the problems we are. The stuff is great but every day a seam here and there pops up. It needs rolled maybe? I thought about using a underlayment but a friend said any imperfections would be intensified and probably telegraph to the surface because of the flexiblity of the products so we didn't. It's in my basement on a concrete slab.


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## HuskySkull

*Thats it*

Thanks for the post. I am experiencing the exact same issue! I decided to try it in my bathroom first before buying for the 500 sq ft of the area. Boy am I glad I did. It is directly on my concrete slab too and I am getting seams popping up too. I did a search and found this thread:
http://forums.houseandhome.com/showthread.php?t=18503&f=10&page=8&pp=15


Others are having the same issue too, and ALL are on concrete slabs in basements. I think the answer is right there. For some reason this product does not work flawlessly in this situation. I am going to contact trafficmaster to see what they say. For now, a person there recommended putting a thick towel over the areas and ironing them on full steam. This makes the glue re adhere. Good luck with yours!

I am now fighting with myself about putting ceramic tile in the basement or vinyl. I REALLY wanted to use this product, but I cannot deal with this.


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## Solosrose

*TrafficMaster Allure*

It does need to be rolled with a heavy roller for proper installation. A lot of people don't do this and end up having the seems separate. Also, it doesn't like to be installed cold, or after you've touched the glue with your fingers. I put it in my kitchen right over my existing lino floor and it's working great. I have only had one customer say they had a problem and it was on concrete as well after being in for a year. If you're having problems, call TrafficMaster Technical support so they can help you. The number is located on the back of the box. Also, don't forget to leave at least an 1/8" gap around the room. You're baseboards will cover this gap and allows for expansion. Although you don't have to prepare your floor before hand, if the floor is too uneven, it could possibly cause issues with the seam. Again, contact Technical support to find out for sure.


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## Solosrose

*Allure by TrafficMaster*

 Okay, so this is what I've been told by my flooring trainer, (I'm taking a course throught work), is that it sounds like a moisture issue. Moisture from the concrete is seeping up through the seams. Of course, this causes the seams to separate. The only way to get way from this is to lay down a 6mil poly barrier or you can even use the underlay for laminate that has a vapor barrier on it or the 3-in-1 that has the little foam balls on it. This flooring is a very resilient and durable floor, but is not impervious (sp? sorry) to the pressure of the moisture trying to come up through the seams. It totally made sense to me. I've still go two more days of the course, so I"ll try and ask more questions.


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## WILDLILY

solorose- the bad thing about that, if that is the case ,is -they say you can install on slab without underlayment. We put it down-I can't put the underlayment down now. We rented a roller and are steam ironing problem areas.


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## sammy3

*Frustrating!*

Just an FYI, I had the exact same problem. Installed about 16 cases worth of material in my basement right on the concrete slab. I followed the directions verbatim, and rented and roller to roll it out. About a month later, the seams came undone and the planks started warping. I'm guessing it has to do with the vapor pressure from the concrete moisture.

I called the 800 number on the box, and got Hallstead international tech support. They sent an inspector, and (to my frustration) sent me a letter saying the cause was there not a full 1/8" gap in a few places. I tried to call them and follow up, but the primary tech support representative who handled the request was never available, and didn't return my calls.

I am positive the issue isn't because of the 1/8" gap (I was sure to leave one), and I'm disappointed with their customer service. It is my opinion that they will try to talk their way out of the 25 year warranty printed on the box.


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## JustSayO

I just spoke with a customer rep and explained the frustration some have had with this product. She has indicated to me that there are installation temperature limitations on the product that are explained in a pdf brochure. URL below:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImage/d0c0bf10-7dd2-47ca-9459-577a22eeeb65.pdf

My call was in regards to using a secured underlayment with a thin insulation barrier to act as a thermal break. She recommended to eliminate any shifting that could occur under the Vinyl sections. I gathered that most of the problems arise because the cold concrete floor cause the adhesives to separate. And from expanding/contracting due to large temperature swings that are common in low use basements. One pet peeve I have is how people in the store like open boxes to peek under the adhesive strip and get it all dusty. This just ruins the product when someone else tries to use it. 

Though the product literature indicates easy-to-install with no floor prep and is moisture resistant, basements are one of the most environmentally demanding locations on building material in the house. Also, it recommended a warm room (above 60) or using a hairdryer to warm up the adhesive to get a better bond.

With these things in mind, I still plan to use it for the basement. I hope to have success with my underlayment scheme.


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## sammy3

*Hmm.*

I called again too actually after the earlier post. The tech support lady gave me the same link, and also said it was probably due to temperature.

I am half tempted to replace the allure flooring in my basement with the same stuff (which I had home depot comp me for). But I when i started tearing out the old traffic master allure floor (installed last year), I found some really nasty looking mold and mildew underneath. I've never had a problem with mold in my basement. I'm concerned that putting a floating floor on concrete, which can be naturally moist due to how porus it is, can create a mold issue.

So i'm not sure if I should use a vapor barrier, or paint on concrete sealant, or just take the safe route and put in tile.


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## JustSayO

*Basement finishing methods*

I have learned in my research about basements is that:

1.)Keep moisture from arriving into your basement. This is usually done by keeping warmer more humid air from reaching cooler cement surfaces. Fully insulate the exposed concrete from conditioned air. A vapor barrier just holds water back at the plastic surface, causing rot and mold. If you prevent the air from reaching that cool surface it won't sweat. Check out these sites: http://radonseal.com/ 
http://www.buildingscienceconsulting.com/resources/foundations/renovating_your_basement.pdf

2.)Provide a way for moisture, if any, to be moved out when it comes into the basement. I found a product by SuperSeal used for underlayment. This allows moisture to dry from under the floor. 
Check out this site also: http://www.superseal.ca/all_in_one_subfloor.html


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## techdude

*Issues with Vinyl*

I've decided to install the Allure product in my finished basement. Currently there is is 12x12 vinyl tiles down and they're in pretty good shape. I've been reading about these planks popping out, possibly because of moisture issues. However, most of the complaints seemed to be happening when it's put directly over concrete without a barrier of some type between it and the floor. Has anyone had issues with this problem when it's been installed over vinyl or some other underlayment? My basement is bone dry in the winter and i run a dehumidifier in the summer. I probably don't have to, but I have a lot of electronics down there and rather be on the safe side. Thanks for all the help.


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## mngal

*Trafficemaster Allure Vinyl Flooring--BAD Experience!!* 
Just wanted to share our horrible experience with this product to spare others the heartache and frustration we have had this past year. First the seams lifted, which eventually led to Halstead (the manufacturer) refunding our total amount spent on this product. Then upon removal of the product, we found solid MOLD growing under the flooring!! We had installed it in a "dry" walkout basement which is actually a foot above grade/ground level. We had carpet and padding down for 7 years with no moisture/mold issues. Now our cement subfloor has been compromised, and even after cleaning with bleach and water 3 times, we are still told by professionals to seal it with a mold inhibitor paint to prevent any mold spores that are still in the cement from growing in the future. In my opinion, based on our experience, this product has a flaw in it's application for use. It seems to set up conditions for moisture to be trapped and breed mold. You don't have this issue with carpet as it breathes, and you don't have this issue with traditional vinyl because it is glued completely to the subfloor or sealed around the perimeter. This product doesn't require any floor prep in it's install and it doesn't seal out air with any type of gluing down of the floor. In my opinion this allows air and moisture to be trapped under the vinyl, and presto! you have a science project growing in your home! I feel we were lucky to have the seam lifting issue which led to us removing the flooring from our home after only 8 months....what if we had left it for 5 years...can you imagine the mold levels that might have existed then?! Contact me if you want pictures!!!


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## techdude

*Just Installed!*

I finished installing the Cherry Allure flooring in my basement hallway. I was going to do an adjoining room, but decided to do carpet instead. It's relatively easy to install, the full planks that is. Any sort of trimming or cutting takes extra effort. I wished they would have put an easily removable film covering the glue strips to keep them clean until you were ready to install. That would be a great improvement on this product. I used a rolling pin to roll over the seams as I didn't want to drive all the way out to HD to pick up a roller. Hopefully, the seams stay put. I used a hair dryer while installing to heat up the strips before installing. Overall, i'm pleased with the look of the product and insallation. If you're doing a bigger area, I'd be prepared for soreness the next day. Good luck all.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=9AZMWjNu4ZM4k


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## lesleyalex

*Allure able to be installed in a "open kitchen"?*

I have a small cottage with a kitchen that runs to carpeted living room with no walls. Would the Allure trafficmaster be able to be installed in the kitchen portion of the room, or do you think the floating floor would start to move away from the 2 walls and start traveling out on to the carpeted area since there is no wall on 2 sides to hold it in? Anyone use this product in this type of area? And second, I am in Hawaii, has high humidity be a problem for anyone? thx


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## mike costello

I would be happy to come take a look at that for you.


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## perzaklie

I'm sure glad I found this forum before I bought this product! I went to the HD site and all their posted ratings on the product are 5 out of 5. I was ready to order 175 sq ft but I decided to "Google" it and found this forum!

Is this the same product as This Old House installed in the Row House project kitchen which just aired last evening?



mngal said:


> *Trafficemaster Allure Vinyl Flooring--BAD Experience!!*
> Just wanted to share our horrible experience with this product to spare others the heartache and frustration we have had this past year. First the seams lifted, which eventually led to Halstead (the manufacturer) refunding our total amount spent on this product. Then upon removal of the product, we found solid MOLD growing under the flooring!! We had installed it in a "dry" walkout basement which is actually a foot above grade/ground level. We had carpet and padding down for 7 years with no moisture/mold issues. Now our cement subfloor has been compromised, and even after cleaning with bleach and water 3 times, we are still told by professionals to seal it with a mold inhibitor paint to prevent any mold spores that are still in the cement from growing in the future. In my opinion, based on our experience, this product has a flaw in it's application for use. It seems to set up conditions for moisture to be trapped and breed mold. You don't have this issue with carpet as it breathes, and you don't have this issue with traditional vinyl because it is glued completely to the subfloor or sealed around the perimeter. This product doesn't require any floor prep in it's install and it doesn't seal out air with any type of gluing down of the floor. In my opinion this allows air and moisture to be trapped under the vinyl, and presto! you have a science project growing in your home! I feel we were lucky to have the seam lifting issue which led to us removing the flooring from our home after only 8 months....what if we had left it for 5 years...can you imagine the mold levels that might have existed then?! Contact me if you want pictures!!!


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## vordakoz

*New Master bedroom (PROBLEM WITH PRODUCT AS WELL)*



perzaklie said:


> I'm sure glad I found this forum before I bought this product! I went to the HD site and all their posted ratings on the product are 5 out of 5. I was ready to order 175 sq ft but I decided to "Google" it and found this forum!
> 
> Is this the same product as This Old House installed in the Row House project kitchen which just aired last evening?


--

We purchased this Trafficmaster Allure flooring in hickory for the master bedroom we recently built in our basement. Prior to installing the flooring (in temperatures between 75 and 80 degrees F), we applied a vapor barrier epoxy concrete sealant. EVERY board is peeling up! We have tried using a linoleum roller over the course of several days, and we have seen no improvements. There are no problem SPOTS; the entire floor is a problem! We are planning to call Trafficmaster for a full refund on the 7 boxes we purchased.


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## Coleminate

*Traffic Master Hickory - problems as well*

We bought the hickory trafficmaster a year ago and have had nothing but problems. Not only do pieces on our walk out basement floor "pop" up on the edges but you can not wear any shoes on it at all. THe kids can not play with their toys on it. Everything that touches it leaves a terrible skid mark that according to trafficmaster can not be fixed. They said that the scuffs will show up in that late afternoon due to the sun shining on them and bringing them out. But you can see them all the time! It was such a waste of money and our floor looks worn and quite honestly just terrible. The scuffs showed up from the moment we put it down. It looked nice for about an hour! If anyone has a suggestion on how to get rid of the scuffs, please let me know. I am pretty sure the laminate top almost "melts" when another rubber comes in contact with it so fixing it is near impossible. My suggestion is use something else. I just found this thread and I wish I found it last year. Especially since I saw the post below about mold! We will probably rip it out sometime next year and put down something else. I am so disappointed in the money we just wasted.


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## srobert11

*Traffic Master Allure over Ceramic Tile?*

:confused1:Has anyone installed Traffic Master Allure planks over 13" x13" ceramic or porcelein tile flooring? I'd like to install it in my kitchen, breakfast room, foyer and hall but have tile with approx. 1/4" grout lines. I wondered if the grout lines would eventrually show through the Allure "wood" flooring.
Thanks for your help in advance:wink:


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## Esha48

HuskySkull said:


> Anyone have experience with trafficmaster allure? I am going to use it in my basement on tile that is on cement. I was wondering if it would be any added plus to use some underlayment below it. I know it doesn't need it, but would it add any positive?


I put this stuff, and I use stuff loosely, on my family room floor. The only thing good about it is that I now realize how my previous carpet got dirty so quick. We spent our stimulus check to get this for the room after glowing reports from our Home Depot salesperson. Well it was not down more than 2 weeks before I noticed it was starting to scratch everywhere. ANYTHING can scratch it. I have 4 dogs, short clipped nails, so it is not their fault. The least little thing that slides across it makes a mark. Regret the day I bought it, wish I had gone back to carpet, as I hate this and I am stuck with it now til it wears out, which won't take long at the rate it is wearing. It has been down down since the week before Thanksgiving, that is less than 6 months. Also it does raise at the seams.


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## guzaguza

I want to install a vinyl floating floor in a florida room. Right now it has indoor/outdoor carpeting glued on to the cement floor. Should I take out the carpet before I install the vinyl floating floor? Or should I leave the carpet underneath and then install the floating vinyl floor on top of it? Please answer me. Thank you.


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## Esha48

No you must take up any carpet and padding to install the allure. But make sure you really want to use this product as I have not had a very good experience with it, so I am not the one to answer your question. I have heard that it sometimes grows mold under the flooring if installed over concrete. Mine was on a wood layment, so Icannot tell how it will hold up over your concrete. But you need to remove the carpet for sure.


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## Rivethead

guzaguza said:


> I want to install a vinyl floating floor in a florida room. Right now it has indoor/outdoor carpeting glued on to the cement floor. Should I take out the carpet before I install the vinyl floating floor? Or should I leave the carpet underneath and then install the floating vinyl floor on top of it? Please answer me. Thank you.


 
Depends on how thin and beat down the old carpet is. If your using Allure you don't want a lot of give under the seams. Presume the floor is dry..?
Almost every complaint I seen about Allure (aside from the scuffing some have) involved not following the directions for rolling it or putting it down over a damp surface. Have fun...


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## joerector

techdude said:


> I've decided to install the Allure product in my finished basement. Currently there is is 12x12 vinyl tiles down and they're in pretty good shape. I've been reading about these planks popping out, possibly because of moisture issues. However, most of the complaints seemed to be happening when it's put directly over concrete without a barrier of some type between it and the floor. Has anyone had issues with this problem when it's been installed over vinyl or some other underlayment? My basement is bone dry in the winter and i run a dehumidifier in the summer. I probably don't have to, but I have a lot of electronics down there and rather be on the safe side. Thanks for all the help.


I had Allure put in my condo in Nashville. The job was botched by the installers. Gaps in most of the seams and edges popping up all over. They tore up the old, put down a sealer and plastic, and then a new floor. No roller was used. Seams still pop in some places, and this installer tried to attach them with liquid nail. It didn't work. This is a problem with an installer who is incompetent more than with the the flooring. Still, I don't think I'd used the product again.


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## Jeanine82009

Just thought I would post my experience and let you all take it for what it's worth. I installed this product in my previous home to update the floors to sell it. I purchased the wood tone in the dark Cherry finish. I purchased and installed it in an area that was 24x36 and NOT in a basement...over plywood flooring in a heated/warm area. I was told how WONDERFUL this product was for heavy traffic, dogs (I own 4 big dogs)...and for kids wear/tear. The home depot people swore by this product and encouraged us to use it for the area. We did. We installed it, and I have to say it was quick and really easy to do. However, when we moved our furniture back into the room (and we didnt slide things over the floor, just re-positioned them once we got them in place)....we noticed scratches immediately. I was NOT happy. Within a few weeks, the entire surface had wear marks, scratches, scuffs, etc from the dogs and my infant/toddlers rolling walker. I couldnt even move his high chair across the dining room floor (which has rubber wheels) without it leaving scuff/drag marks. I immediately complained to Home Depot...took photos of the damage and the lady that sold us the product was shocked. She thought that maybe it was a factory defect in the batch we got, but when she picked up the plank in her store and ran her finger nail across it....it did the same EXACT thing on her floor sample. She couldnt believe it did that, actually showed it to all the personnel in flooring and management. They contacted the manufacturer...and sent them a sample of the damage. The manufacturer paid to replace all of our floor (we had to buy ALLURE again as with the warranty you get the product replaced)...so we decided to go with the light oak color instead of the dark cherry this time. We had to tear out the entire floor and re-install it all ourselves again...which thankfully it is easy to do....however, the company does not reimburse you for supplies...they just cover the cost of the new flooring. We landed up doing double the work, running around...and let me just say we were not happy about it. The light oak floor worked out much better....it was still scuffing/scratching...but with the light color it did not show as bad as the dark cherry! Luckily we sold the house right after that so I didnt have to worry about it...but I would think twice about using it in HIGH traffic areas with dogs and kids....it was not as durable as the home depot employees said it would be....but it is VERY EASY to install.

*As for the seams separating....I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM...and we did use a heavy roller to lay it down. I had lots of seams separate and was told to use a wood tone filler that matched the wood color of the floor so that it blends in. I felt like every week I was down on the floor filling in seams....so, I was not impressed, nor happy with this product. Home depot flooring people RAVE over it...and to this day if I am in the flooring isle will suggest it for projects....that it, until I tell them of my "wonderful" experience with it!! lol


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## Jeanine82009

*You should have reported it to Home Depot.....*



Esha48 said:


> I put this stuff, and I use stuff loosely, on my family room floor. The only thing good about it is that I now realize how my previous carpet got dirty so quick. We spent our stimulus check to get this for the room after glowing reports from our Home Depot salesperson. Well it was not down more than 2 weeks before I noticed it was starting to scratch everywhere. ANYTHING can scratch it. I have 4 dogs, short clipped nails, so it is not their fault. The least little thing that slides across it makes a mark. Regret the day I bought it, wish I had gone back to carpet, as I hate this and I am stuck with it now til it wears out, which won't take long at the rate it is wearing. It has been down down since the week before Thanksgiving, that is less than 6 months. Also it does raise at the seams.


You should have immediately complained to Home Depot...contacted the manufacturer with photos...and they would have paid for all new products. The same thing happened to me a few years ago when I was updating our house to sell it. It scratched immediately...if you read my story listed here you will see. I contacted Home Depot and the manufacturer (it is a warrantied floor)...they replaced the entire floor at no cost...but I had to do all the labor all over again. I chose a light colored wood pattern the second time around and it still scratched, but did not show as bad as the darker colors.


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## 2cb

*Allure Sticky*

look people, let's use a little common sense. the Allure flooring is made of Vinyl and a Gummy Glue. those things are not susceptible to moisture. the most obvious reason everyone is having trouble on concrete basements is because the CONCRETE IS COLD. and that makes the Gummy-Glue more brittle and less tacky. this isn't rocket science. please don't make the product more expensive by returning it for silly reasons. i don't think any kind of Gummy-Glue will work on a cold concrete floor, especially if it is a little uneven. and i would never put a waterproof material loosely over a surface that may get damp from condensation or penetration. from memory as i read this thread: next, of course carpet will not have the same moisture problem on concrete floors, because it breathes. next, of course you may have mold problems under vinyl on a concrete floor because moisture will condense on the vinyl from the cold concrete. mold will especially grow if things were not too clean - after all, it does need food. i would not put anything on a concrete floor that had any moisture content, unless it was something that can breathe, or something that can seal. and i would not use Gummy-Glue on anything that gets cold and/or is slightly uneven. the only thing Allure will be good for is: 1. a dry floor (prevent moisture problems below the Vinyl). 2. a very level/smooth/flat floor (no stress on the Gummy-Glue). 3. a warm floor (so Gummy-Glue is not brittle, and condensation will not form between the Vinyl and sub-flooring).


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## 2cb

also, in regard to scratching, ANY plastic/wood will scratch. if you don't want scratches, then use something hard - like stone, or ceramic, or a very hard tile. jeez. everybody pays extra for products when they are returned for silly reasons.


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## 2cb

also, you should never wear shoes on Vinyl. you should wear socks or house-slippers. any little rocks or hard things in the soles of shoes will poke holes in Vinyl. and all shoes will cause scuff marks, that is why the soles of shoes wear away over time. what do you people expect from plastic?


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## EchoSix

*Re: To 2cb*

This is mainly to "2cb" and all of his/her previous three posts... But if others can benefit from it, then all the better...

I'm getting ready to put down a finished floor in our basement and was doing a bit of Googling to see the reviews on the Allure vinyl flooring. I'm finding that all the reviews are about 50/50, depending on where the product is placed. Those who install this in first or second floor of their residential houses, never see an issue unless they admit that they didn't acclimate the product to the surrounding for 48 hours or use a heavy roller to compress the glue joints. Otherwise, a warm, dry environment with plenty of air circulation seems best.

But unless this product is placed on a concrete slab in the states of Arizona, Nevada, Texas, New Mexico (all the dry as sand states), then you're basically out of luck when it comes to putting this stuff down, directly on a concrete slab. I live in Connecticut and there's no one in the entire New England area who doesn't have water movement under their slab. Whether they have a dry basement or not... You're still going to get moisture moving up through the concrete, which needs ventilation to keep down the musty smell, humid environment and dampness. I'm not talking about flowing water that's under pressure... I'm talking about simple ambient moisture that filters through a highly porous material, such as concrete.

Now, 2cb, you're pointing out how everyone needs a little common sense and understanding of the product, while you more or less point fingers at people who aren't doing something right or aren't following directions, while insinuating their lack of common sense.

Don't get defensive, because you are, whether you agree to that or not.

What YOU don't seem to get, is that the manufacturers of this product have it written all over their brochures, on their website and on the product's box, that it CAN be installed directly on basement floors without a vapor barrier. They say the product WON'T scratch and that any scuff mark can easily be washed off. Their information also claims that their glue will hold up to environmental moisture and that the entire product is "Waterproof".

_Definition of WATERPROOF

: impervious to water; especially : covered or treated with a material (as a solution of rubber) to prevent permeation by water_

This product CLAIMS to do, what you're saying everyone should understand what it obviously can't.

I think everyone knows it's limitations by now.

And it's the fact that the product fails to hold up to it's claims, that those who have problems with it, get their money back. IF the manufacturer didn't have these false claims, then I could see how someone would look clueless in trying to make the product do something that's beyond it's capabilities.

Look at it this way...

If GMC advertised that they had a new car that could fly in all conditions of weather and people bought it and later found out that it only flies well in a dry, windless environment... Would you still scoff at those who didn't see it coming, even though the manufacturer advertised differently?

If a manufacturer says a product can do something, it BETTER do what it's supposed to do, or else people are going to get angry and want their money back.

Hence, internet forums where people ask advice and get non-biased opinions based on their experiences with something, good or bad.

Now... If the manufacturer gave better indications of possible problems, UNLESS certain precautions were made in order to prevent seeing those problems, THEN people would be more forgiving.


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## 2cb

this is just a test reply, because after spending an hour replying to the last message, it didn't post after submitting it.


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## 2cb

damn, i lost over an hour of work replying to this previously! i won't spend an hour this time, so i apologize for brevity this time. 

> never see an issue unless they admit that they didn't acclimate the product to the surrounding for 48 hours 

that is just for thermal expansion purposes i believe. it should adjust to room temperature as you use it. i don't see anything special about "48 hours". i never did that, and had no problems. 

> use a heavy roller to compress the glue joints. 

if you must do that, your floor isn't flat, and you shouldn't be laying down this flooring - that is my thought. i never used any roller to compress the joints. 

> Otherwise, a warm, dry environment with plenty of air circulation seems best. 

it is not so simple as that, if that statement even makes sense concerning the flooring. 

> But unless this product is placed on a concrete slab in the states of Arizona, Nevada, Texas, New Mexico (all the dry as sand states), then you're basically out of luck when it comes to putting this stuff down, directly on a concrete slab. 

no, there is many variables: type of concrete, sealing on the outside, thickness of the concrete, sealing on the inside, temperature of the concrete, insulation, flooring underlayments, flatness of the concrete, etc. 

> I live in Connecticut and there's no one in the entire New England area who doesn't have water movement under their slab. Whether they have a dry basement or not... You're still going to get moisture moving up through the concrete, which needs ventilation to keep down the musty smell, humid environment and dampness. I'm not talking about flowing water that's under pressure... I'm talking about simple ambient moisture that filters through a highly porous material, such as concrete. 

it is not so simple. it depends on the quality of your construction and materials. 

> Now, 2cb, you're pointing out how everyone needs a little common sense and understanding of the product, while you more or less point fingers at people who aren't doing something right or aren't following directions, while insinuating their lack of common sense. Don't get defensive, because you are, whether you agree to that or not. 

yes  that was my impression when i first read this thread. 

> What YOU don't seem to get, is that the manufacturers of this product have it written all over their brochures, on their website and on the product's box, that it CAN be installed directly on basement floors without a vapor barrier. 

i do not see that on my box or brochure. vinyl IS a vapor barrier. i don't see the purpose behind that statement. 

> They say the product WON'T scratch and that any scuff mark can easily be washed off. 

i do not see that on my box or brochure at all. in fact, since the flooring is just vinyl, with no surface coating, it will scratch as easily as any other vinyl. 

> Their information also claims that their glue will hold up to environmental moisture and that the entire product is Waterproof. 

i do not see that on my box or brochure at all. it only says "durable and water resistant", which is honest. it is a very thick vinyl that is very durable, and like all plastic, it is water resistant. if glue is an issue, you didn't do something right, because the glue should not be exposed. i would be more concerned about oxidation of any exposed glue, than water damage to the gummy glue. and the gummy glue is not water soluble .. ??? 

> Definition of WATERPROOF: impervious to water; especially : covered or treated with a material (as a solution of rubber) to prevent permeation by water/ 

the product literature doesn't say "waterproof". the literature says water resistant. but for all practical purposes, vinyl is waterproof, and so is the flooring. i have had puddles on mine for extended periods of time with no problem whatsoever. 

> This product CLAIMS to do, what you're saying everyone should understand what it obviously can't. 

i have seen no evidence of that. 

> I think everyone knows it's limitations by now. 

the limitations i see are buyer/installer inexperience. most comments i see here have little sense. i do not know what limitations you are talking about. the flooring works perfectly well on any flat floor. how can it not? the product is simply flat vinyl slabs. nothing more, nothing less. 

> And it's the fact that the product fails to hold up to it's claims, that those who have problems with it, get their money back. IF the manufacturer didn't have these false claims, then I could see how someone would look clueless in trying to make the product do something that's beyond it's capabilities. 

the only false claims i have seen are the ones you have made concerning the product. none of the claims you have made about the product's claims are to be found on my Allure box and brochure. 

> Look at it this way ... If GMC advertised that they had a new car that could fly in all conditions of weather and people bought it and later found out that it only flies well in a dry, windless environment ... Would you still scoff at those who didn't see it coming, even though the manufacturer advertised differently? 

that would be fraud, but i don't think i would fall for such blatant fraud, because i would inspect and test the product to my satisfaction before buying it. i don't see how this applies to the vinyl slabs. the Allure product does exactly what vinyl slabs do, and they are "durable and water resistant" as the packaging and brochures state. i do not see all the other claims you make about the product's claims. 

> If a manufacturer says a product can do something, it BETTER do what it's supposed to do, or else people are going to get angry and want their money back. 

i do not see any evidence of that. i only see evidence of people that want a quick thoughtless cheap fix to all their problems, buying and installing whole floors without even testing a sample of the product, and without having the experience and care to assess and prepare for proper flooring installation. and i see a lot of nonsense such as people claiming that the vinyl "warps" or "peels back". vinyl can't warp (except under high heat, eg, melting), and if it peels away, it can only mean that the subflooring isn't anything close to firm and flat. i certainly wouldn't want to buy any home from most of the DIYers i see. they think they can do anything someone without a college degree can do, but that is laughable. as an engineer and a laborer for many years, i have much more respect for the things that are involved in construction, and the truth is: most people aren't qualified or skilled enough to do any work on their homes, or anything else. it's mostly a product of our economy, and everyone wanting to save a penny, to cheap to pay people with professional experience. truly, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone without training and experience to do construction related work. it's like expecting people to repair jet engines. would you want to fly on a plane that is maintained by a DIYer?  not much different than homes. people can only do things well with enough experience, and flooring tends to be a once-every-30-years kind of thing, a project where people can never get that experience. 

> Hence, internet forums where people ask advice and get non-biased opinions based on their experiences with something, good or bad. 

haha - all i see is bias. all i see is blame the vinyl manufacturer. i don't remember reading any posts where people were learning about their own lack of ability and experience. vinyl is just vinyl, and there is not much better or worse about Allure vinyl than any other vinyl. it is better because it is thicker and can be laid down without damaging with subflooring with glues (making it easier to remove/repair in the future), and worse because it has no special scratch-resistant surface coatings. 

> Now ... If the manufacturer gave better indications of possible problems, UNLESS certain precautions were made in order to prevent seeing those problems, THEN people would be more forgiving. 

well, as i read your post, i do appreciate that you seem like a kind person. but i hope you see, if you use critical thinking skills, that most everyone complaining are failures/inept at flooring. i haven't seen a single complaint that the Allure vinyl is not what vinyl should be. it is impossible/unimaginable for the flooring to have any problem with the glue/seams on a firm flat floor. vinyl neither creates moisture problems, nor solves them. some people people have good construction, some don't. Allure made none of the claims you claimed they made. and Allure makes no claim that the flooring is suitable for all subflooring and all conditions.


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## 2cb

accidental double-post removed.


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## 2cb

the essence of all the complaints about Allure flooring is that watching Bob Villa (or whoever, i don't have a TV) do a construction project doesn't mean you can do it well. 

construction is a mix of: 

1. engineering skill/talent. 

2. artistic skill/talent. 

and i don't see any of those things in any of the complaints. mostly, "i threw down the floor, and now i have problems!" and it is amusing, except for the trouble it must be causing the stores and manufacturer, and the added expense this is going to cost everyone.


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## shearart

*Love This Product!*

I installed the tiles in a foyer over laminate a year ago, love it! No problems with popping etc, it is in foyer in apartment building, one scratch appears to be something metal slammed on it. Is to be expected in environment it was put in. Loved it so much so much I installed it myself in my hair salon, this was the long planks, *teak* color....looks amazing. Yes it smelled like vinyl for a few days, love the look, feel and clean up. My salon is in a very old building with very uneven everything, they were super easy to cut and install. started with the smallest room to see if I could do it myself, 10 x 12 room, done in 2 hours! Not bad for 50 year old woman. Super happy, am now planning on installing the tiles in new addition bathroom. Installing over solid floor, exterior grade plywood then hardiebacker board, ....just like they recommend. I am planning on grouting for first time, have high expectations based on my previous experiences with great product. Bedroom will be finished with the plank vinyl floating floor that I used in my salon. BTW, FYI I have real hardwood floors in my house, laminate, as well as tile in kitchen and bath, hands down like the *teak* floor better than all the rest, including real wood floor!:wink:


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## techdude

*Allure Followup*

Hello All...i was doing research on underlayment when using this product and found an oldpost of when i used it in my basement two years ago. Well, it's been four years since i installed it and no popped seams. I'm going to put in my entryway which currently has ceramic tile and was thinking of putting it right over that, but was curious if anyone else did and noticed any indentations where the grout joints were?


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## Margaret89

*Allure Installation Instructions - 9/2012*

Just FYI about installing Allure over concrete subfloor (from the HD installation instructions, September 2012):

-------------

6. Approved Subfloors:
 Concrete: Any large cracks or voids must be filled with a cementitious
patching/leveling compound. ( over 1/8” x 1/8”)

Please note: Allure is water resistant and will withstand holding water for
short periods of time if the product is installed properly. Allure is not flood
proof! Allure is not meant as water proofing material nor a solution for
moisture. Moisture intrusion is a totally different situation that can arise with new and old concrete that exhibits very high levels of hydrostatic pressure in combination with very high levels of alkalinity. This combination provides a substance that is highly corrosive. No floor covering including Allure can withstand the long term corrosive nature of this chemical. Hydro static pressure exceeding 8 lbs using the calcium chloride test method and or a P.H test indicates alkalinity levels in excess of 9, steps must be taken to separate Allure from the source of the corrosive effect of this chemical.

Excessive moisture in the subfloor can cause mold and mildew, and other moisture related issues including but not limited to trapping of the moisture emissions under Allure. Under these circumstances the concrete needs to be treated with a floor sealer that seals the concrete under the 8 lbs. or a moisture/vapor barrier (6 mil poly) is installed. This is necessary to avoid the corrosive effects. Newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing Allure.


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## rusty baker

Margaret89 said:


> Just FYI about installing Allure over concrete subfloor (from the HD installation instructions, September 2012):
> 
> -------------
> 
> 6. Approved Subfloors:
>  Concrete: Any large cracks or voids must be filled with a cementitious
> patching/leveling compound. ( over 1/8” x 1/8”)
> 
> Please note: Allure is water resistant and will withstand holding water for
> short periods of time if the product is installed properly. Allure is not flood
> proof! Allure is not meant as water proofing material nor a solution for
> moisture. Moisture intrusion is a totally different situation that can arise with new and old concrete that exhibits very high levels of hydrostatic pressure in combination with very high levels of alkalinity. This combination provides a substance that is highly corrosive. No floor covering including Allure can withstand the long term corrosive nature of this chemical. Hydro static pressure exceeding 8 lbs using the calcium chloride test method and or a P.H test indicates alkalinity levels in excess of 9, steps must be taken to separate Allure from the source of the corrosive effect of this chemical.
> 
> Excessive moisture in the subfloor can cause mold and mildew, and other moisture related issues including but not limited to trapping of the moisture emissions under Allure. Under these circumstances the concrete needs to be treated with a floor sealer that seals the concrete under the 8 lbs. or a moisture/vapor barrier (6 mil poly) is installed. This is necessary to avoid the corrosive effects. Newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing Allure.


Good luck getting DIYers to read and follow directions. :wink:


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## Margaret89

*Condescending*

That's very condescending. They're reading this DIY board to find out how to do things, aren't they? I'm a DIY homeowner and I always read everything I can before I buy and before I install.


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## rusty baker

Many of the DIYers that come here have already not followed directions and then come here to complain because things didn't turn out right. Any regular here will tell you that I have helped many DIYers. Last week a poster tried to tell me that Allure didn't need to be rolled, for example. When I posted the instructions from the mill that said it had to be rolled, they said it wasn't necessary. When it fails, they will be the first to complain and blame the product. And I will still be willing to try to help them fix it.


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## Allure_Guy

*Underlayment and other Allure support info*

Hi everyone,

Here's some information direct from Halstead, the manufacturer of allure:

There are issues that can occur when installing on concrete (especially basements). All subfloors must be carefully checked for moisture, as *Allure ULTRA* is *waterproof* but not a _waterproofer_. So any moisture problems need to be addressed prior to installation. We recommend 6 mil poly moisture vapor barrier, TrafficMaster Basement Proofer (available by special order only) or RedGard®. 

When installing allure flooring in a basement, you must use a basement proofer or a 6 mil poly moisture barrier. If you are using a Tramex Moisture Meter and the level is 0%-2%, no moisture barrier is required. But if it is 2%-5%, a moisture barrier is required. Anything over 5% and we do not recommend installing allure flooring. Also, newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing allure.

If you are looking for more Allure support and installation information direct from the manufacturer, you can find it in their online support center: http://www.mydiygenius.com/articles/

Hope that helps!

~Aaron
Allure Customer Outreach Team


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## rusty baker

Allure_Guy said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Here's some information direct from Halstead, the manufacturer of allure:
> 
> There are issues that can occur when installing on concrete (especially basements). All subfloors must be carefully checked for moisture, as *Allure ULTRA* is *waterproof* but not a _waterproofer_. So any moisture problems need to be addressed prior to installation. We recommend 6 mil poly moisture vapor barrier, TrafficMaster Basement Proofer (available by special order only) or RedGard®.
> 
> When installing allure flooring in a basement, you must use a basement proofer or a 6 mil poly moisture barrier. If you are using a Tramex Moisture Meter and the level is 0%-2%, no moisture barrier is required. But if it is 2%-5%, a moisture barrier is required. Anything over 5% and we do not recommend installing allure flooring. Also, newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing allure.
> 
> If you are looking for more Allure support and installation information direct from the manufacturer, you can find it in their online support center: http://www.mydiygenius.com/articles/
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> ~Aaron
> Allure Customer Outreach Team


 The first complaints posted here were in 2007, and so people are supposed to be impressed that you are offering help 6 YEARS later.


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## Allure_Guy

rusty baker said:


> The first complaints posted here were in 2007, and so people are supposed to be impressed that you are offering help 6 YEARS later.


You're right, Rusty, we regret that it has taken so long to find this online forum and help people on here. You've been in this forum for a long time (2009) and with over 3,400 posts it is clear that you are dedicated to using your knowledge as a professional flooring installer to help educate DIY'ers. I bet a lot of people have been and are still being helped by posts you published years ago. That's what's great about the internet...people can refer to these posts for guidance long after they are posted. In fact they search and refer to these old posts for guidance to this very day!

We want to do the same as you...educate people so that they get the job done right. We want people to enjoy the results of a successful allure flooring project. Whether people are impressed or not that allure is reaching out to help them through a sea of DIY forums and blogs on the internet is up to them. 

What really matters most to us appears to be the same thing that matters most to you... that DIY'ers have the knowledge they need to complete a successful DIY project and enjoy their great new floor to the fullest. 

Thanks again for all that you do on here, Rusty. We appreciate it. If you should ever have any questions, or would like to contact me, please don't hesitate to send me a private message. Working together, I think we can really help a lot of people on here avoid disasters and get the job done right. 

Best regards,

~Aaron
Allure Customer Outreach Team


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## Kimkat2014

*Can I use this in Hawaii?*

My husband & I want to put this flooring in our 750 square foot second story condo on Kauai. He's done some contracting work but has not used this specific product. How do we ensure it does not warp, buckle or separate? Will the humidity in our area cause problems?


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## rusty baker

Go read some of the previous posts. You can find out about all the problems with Allure.


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## Kimkat2014

*Question specific to Hawaii...*

I did go through this thread which is why I am posting. 1)It's not going on cement 2)We know it needs to be rolled 3)We know to check for pattern defects/deformities/opened boxes BEFORE we lay down.

There are a lot of people who love this product. The question is if we follow instructions and install it properly on prepared flooring, will that work? Is the buckling/warping due to humidity or improper installation?

Thank you for your help! Kim


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