# attach stair stringers to deck, too low?



## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

I'm putting wrap around stairs on my deck and I placed two stringers just to see what it looked like. As you can see in the picture, where the stringer contacts the rim joist, the stringer is lower than the rim joist. Is this OK or how should I go about this? These stringers are store bought.

I want the first tread to be lower than the deck surface. Joists are 2x10


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

It's fine As long as you use hangers


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

BIG Johnson said:


> It's fine As long as you use hangers


Well that's great because I was planning on using hangers. To be honest, didn't really think there was another way! :wink2: Can you point me towards the hanger I should use?

Also, I just measured, the top riser is only 4-1/2". I can just cut some off the bottom of the stringer to make this 7-1/4" right?


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Just based on your questions, I would suggest that you get yourself on line and Google how to build stairs.....because you seem to be missing a few key concepts.. The cutting off of the bottom is meant to drop the staircase the height of one tread.....else the top tread would be too close to the top.....and the bottom tread would be too high. Just cutting off a whack isn't going to fix your problem


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Work out the height of your stringers so each step is the same.
You may need to make your own from 2x12's.

If the stringer is too low, bolt on a hanger board to attach the stringers.

Use these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-...-Adjustable-Stringer-Connector-LSCZ/202092483


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

KAK_MN said:


> Well that's great because I was planning on using hangers. To be honest, didn't really think there was another way! :wink2: Can you point me towards the hanger I should use?
> 
> Also, I just measured, the top riser is only 4-1/2". I can just cut some off the bottom of the stringer to make this 7-1/4" right?



No.

You can't have a variation of more than 3/8" between any riser height to another. You can take an inch or so off because the tread is going to be at least that thick but it sounds like you need to make custom stringers. If you don't do it properly, people (including you) are going to be tripping on those steps all the time. 

Watch a YouTube video on how to cut stringers. It's really easy.


You can cut a little off each to get where you need but that will be more complicated for you than building from scratch. 


And always use at least 3 stringers.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.blocklayer.com/stairs/stairs-topleveleng.aspx


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi Kak,
I can't see the whole project so my comments may be out of place but here they are anyway.
It looks like the land slopes from right to left changing the height of the steps from one to another. As others have suggested you need to upgrade your skills to know how to build stringers. You also need to create a level landing area for that set of wrap around steps, I believe about 3' in front of the steps all has to be on level. Corrections welcome.

Once your landing area is leveled then the calculations for rise to run including tread thickness can be done. Note, always best to set the height of the landing area to be sure your steps end up in a comfortable range. And don't forget the hand rails and local code requirements.

Bud


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

Thanks all for your comments. I was using the blocklayer site last week so I had an idea what to do but was trying to avoid cutting my own. But I realized after the comments that the precut are not going to work. Over the weekend, my friend said cutting your own is no big deal.

The ground isn't sloped, optical illusion. Luckily my yard is all flat!

Again, thanks all for the feedback!


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Flat is good and if you decide to cut your own, that is something that several here can help with. I always find that a side drawing of the risers with treads in place from ground to top of deck works well to be sure you have accounted for everything. 

I've never built wrap around stairs like that but one question I would check on is, are railings at just the ends sufficient. I would hate to think that one needs a railing every so often but then I would hate to omit it during planning and have to add it later. Others here may comment (they know more than I do for sure).

Bud


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

Our city has a little handout that says handrails needed for 4 or more risers, but it doesn't say if the stairs are wide. I'll give a call and see. I did google on that a bit last week and it seems like that may be needed in a commercial setting. Anyway...

I do have a large format printer at work so I was thinking of printing the stringer out before I cut anything.


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## ktmrider (Apr 3, 2017)

if you are using 2x material for your treads you may need to take an 1-1/2 off the bottom to make up the difference in height for your last tread


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

ktmrider said:


> if you are using 2x material for your treads you may need to take an 1-1/2 off the bottom to make up the difference in height for your last tread


You take the thickness of the decking off the bottom. If it's an 1-1/2" then great, if it's only 1" then that's what gets cut off.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

KAK_MN said:


> Our city has a little handout that says handrails needed for 4 or more risers, but it doesn't say if the stairs are wide. I'll give a call and see. I did google on that a bit last week and it seems like that may be needed in a commercial setting. Anyway...
> 
> I do have a large format printer at work so I was thinking of printing the stringer out before I cut anything.


Residential, usually just one hand rail per flight of stairs.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

123pugsy said:


> Residential, usually just one hand rail per flight of stairs.


Not required if under 30" though.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Guards and hand rails are two different items.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> You take the thickness of the decking off the bottom. If it's an 1-1/2" then great, if it's only 1" then that's what gets cut off.


Looks like the blocklayer calc takes that into account for you if you enter your tread thickness.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

I did call the city and spoke to the inspector. Only one handrail needed.

The number I had in my head for my total rise was 28" and the precut rise was 7" so I couldn't figure out why they weren't right. I remeasured my total rise and it's 25" so that explains that!


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## bcemail (Sep 18, 2010)

Last summer I rebuilt my deck and did my first two staircases. Just make sure your draw them out to scale so you can double check your measurements. I kept confusing myself with adding or subtracting the top tread or bottom tread etc. One of mine was narrower (about 34-36" I think) and for that I used closed stringers where just the top and bottom are trimmed and then brackets are used to hold the treads. Less work than cutting the stringers but even that didn't turn out too bad. Just draw it out on the stringers and double check before all your cuts!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

So I'm trying to print out my stringer at full scale but doesn't seem to be working. I printed a protractor and that seemed to work. I've tried all sorts of settings but the resulting PDF doesn't scale up the image to full size. The paper size changes based on what I choose at the top of the page but not the image that's on it.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

KAK_MN said:


> So I'm trying to print out my stringer at full scale but doesn't seem to be working. I printed a protractor and that seemed to work. I've tried all sorts of settings but the resulting PDF doesn't scale up the image to full size. The paper size changes based on what I choose at the top of the page but not the image that's on it.


Go buy a Framing Square and Stair Nuts and then watch a couple of videos and learn how to cut them. 

It's Easy! You can practice on piece of plywood.

No need for printers or PDF's to cut stairs.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Just google how to lay out stringers.
Should be dozens of how to's.

You don't need to print out full size drawings.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Here's the first one I came across.

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2014/11/05/laying-out-basic-stair-stringers


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

I know I know, sometimes I get a little crazy and wanted to see it before I started cutting. It was just for looks, was planning on carpenter's square.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I may be able to help a bit with a drawing.

Tell me the height to the finished decking, how big you want the run, how thick the treads are.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

It could look something like this.

Of course if you PM'ed your email I could send a PDF.


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## bcemail (Sep 18, 2010)

KAK_MN said:


> So I'm trying to print out my stringer at full scale but doesn't seem to be working. I printed a protractor and that seemed to work. I've tried all sorts of settings but the resulting PDF doesn't scale up the image to full size. The paper size changes based on what I choose at the top of the page but not the image that's on it.




I didn't mean a full size copy I just meant a scale drawing carefully measured out. I used both sketch up and graph paper and a ruler since I didn't trust my sketch up skills. Then a carpenters square is needed on the actual stringer. I even drew in the treads on the stringer before I cut just to make double sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> Go buy a Framing Square and Stair Nuts and then watch a couple of videos and learn how to cut them.
> 
> It's Easy! You can practice on piece of plywood.
> 
> No need for printers or PDF's to cut stairs.


I actually own stairs nuts! I put skirt boards on my interior stairs several years ago. The square accidentally got sold in a garage sale.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

KAK_MN said:


> The square accidentally got sold in a garage sale.


Well, you can't (shouldn't) cut stairs without one. There's always on on the shelf for under ten bucks in my neck of the woods.

Rip a piece of plywood @ 11-1/2" and cut a pattern. Once you have the pattern right use it to mark out the all of the stringers. That block layer site will give you the rise and run numbers that you need.

Cutting stairs is easy. Trying to make pre-cuts work and be code compliant is not.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

kwikfishron said:


> Well, you can't (shouldn't) cut stairs without one. There's always on on the shelf for under ten bucks in my neck of the woods.


Yep, it's on my list for my next trip!


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> I may be able to help a bit with a drawing.
> 
> Tell me the height to the finished decking, how big you want the run, how thick the treads are.


I couldn't reply to your PM, not enough posts yet.

total rise - 26"
ideal run - 11"
tread thickness - 15/16
riser thickness - 9/16


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

No framing square req'd.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> No framing square req'd.


The only thing I see is the 11" should be of the stringer not of the tread.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Absolutely correct.
The "nosing" is not part of the layout. Rise and Run only.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

The two bottoms were 11"
Just got thrown off the top as it's not being made the exact same.

The top run will be different if you want all treads the same and if there are no riser boards added.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

..................................


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> The two bottoms were 11"
> Just got thrown off the top as it's not being made the exact same.
> 
> The top run will be different if you want all treads the same and if there are no riser boards added.


I didn't notice that the top run is shorter, why is that?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

jlhaslip said:


> Absolutely correct.
> The "nosing" is not part of the layout. Rise and Run only.


I feel, when doing a layout, everything should be taken in to consideration.
Nothing gets missed this way. From the layout, you can see 12" treads. How will this be achieved? 2 x 5-1/2 = 11". With such a short rise, a wide tread is really not needed. An 11" tread would be sufficient.

Also, the existing connection. Will OP tear off some material and add a piece for the nose and also new risers?
If it were mine, I would to make it look right.

These are just my opinions and I've been known to get them wrong before.:wink2:

OP: let me know if you want something changed.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

KAK_MN said:


> I didn't notice that the top run is shorter, why is that?


Ahh, it's because I'm constraining to a 11" run, right?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

KAK_MN said:


> I didn't notice that the top run is shorter, why is that?


Take a look at the big picture.
The tread is 12" as are the others. If you add 9/16" risers without a nose at the top you would see the 9/16" thickness of the risers as an ugly line where it meets the deck boards.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> Take a look at the big picture.
> The tread is 12" as are the others. If you add 9/16" risers without a nose at the top you would see the 9/16" thickness of the risers as an ugly line where it meets the deck boards.


OK got me thinking. I'm using 15/16 treads (composite with backer) and a 1/8 to 3/16 gap between the two. Doing that math led me to 11" run. Agree with that choice? I was trying to avoid ripping as much as possible. I mean once is fine but hopefully not every tread.

Also, I was planning on doing the treads/risers like this:


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

As you show above, you have a 10-7/16" run I believe on the top as I showed and 11" for the balance. No riser thickness added to the top rise.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

There should be some Nosing on the treads. Typically between 3/4 and 1 1/4 inch for nosing.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> As you show above, you have a 10-7/16" run I believe on the top as I showed and 11" for the balance. No riser thickness added to the top rise.


Ahhh I get it now! Thanks for pointing that out, I bet after I cut one I would have thought I did something wrong.

I'm thinking having the top run at 11" will work for the stairs on the 'front' of the deck where the field is parallel to the treads. The first deck board will be the nose. But on the 'sides' of the deck, you're right, it won't look right. I'll have to think about that a bit. I haven't ordered the riser boards yet but I'm guessing that I'd rather see that than the raw edge of the composite.

I'll put up some pics when I get that far. Going to work on the field tomorrow before I think more about the stairs.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

If you look at the top of my deck in the pics, you may be able to do similar by cutting out some existing decking and running a board across for the nose. Then you could have a nose on every stair to match.

Your stairs will look much nicer.


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## bcemail (Sep 18, 2010)

123pugsy said:


> If you look at the top of my deck in the pics, you may be able to do similar by cutting out some existing decking and running a board across for the nose. Then you could have a nose on every stair to match.
> 
> Your stairs will look much nicer.




Could you tell me what kind of hand rail and hardware you used? I'm trying to decide between using wood or getting something like you have. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

bcemail said:


> Could you tell me what kind of hand rail and hardware you used? I'm trying to decide between using wood or getting something like you have. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Custom made at my workplace. 
You would need a fab shop to make them up.

We do restaurant equipment here, but others in the same biz may not want to touch the custom stuff.
They (we) are used to cheap customers so maybe their price would be better?


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

I drew up my stair layout so I could see what will happen at the corner. Is this the right way to go about this? The stringers on the corner will be cut different than the others, or is there a better way?


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

This is probably more correct after thinking about it.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Yup. I like the second layout better, except you will need to change your layout for those two stringers where the change of direction occur in the treads.
Think of building a Hip roof. The Hips are laid out at x/17 instead of x/12 for its pitch. In your case, with a 22 1/2 degree layout in plan view, you need to use 13 on your layout to cut the stringer for the corners where the change of direction is because of the 45 degree (in plan view) layout is.
Mark out one stringer using your rise and run, then position the square so that it matches the layout line but uses 12 as your run. Look to see what the rise would be.
Rearrange your square settings so that you get a layout that uses 13 for the run and the same rise as found above.
This is similar to the layout of a Hip roof for a Bow/Bay roof.
The rise cut should not change.

Hope this helps.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

It's taken a while but with summer events, family emergency, and the weather, project is finally nearing completion and I need some opinions. I'm putting the riser fascia on the angle portion of the stairs and I realize the way I did things is causing an issue with the fascia matching up, see pics.

I took two pictures with two ways I was thinking of handling this and I don't really like either.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Can you back up with the pictures?


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

How are these?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Rip the overhanging board flush like the others and then you'll have the exact same situation everywhere. Bring all the risers up flush to the top.

Not ideal, as all the deck boards should have been overhanging of a nicer look.


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## KAK_MN (Apr 28, 2017)

Yeah, I know you mentioned that before and I decided I didn't really want the picture frame look, but now in hindsight!

Is that really the only option? Probably the easiest and cleanest, just didn't want to scrap my fascia boards. The top edge is the cut edge so I'd replace with new. 



123pugsy said:


> Rip the overhanging board flush like the others and then you'll have the exact same situation everywhere. Bring all the risers up flush to the top.
> 
> Not ideal, as all the deck boards should have been overhanging of a nicer look.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Spend a few buck and a bit of time so you don't kick yourself later. Also, you don't want the wife to think bad thoughts...that's the worse...ha...


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)




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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

_*Figure 12.* Only rim joists made with 2x12s (or bigger) provide enough attachment surface for use with stringer mounting brackets.










__*
Figure 13.* The author installs a structural header and support posts for the stair. The posts continue through the deck frame to support the guardrail system.

http://www.deckmagazine.com/design-construction/framing/building-and-installing-deck-stairs_o

_


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

n.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Well, my bad on this one for answering the wrong question.

Yes. you messed up. but be glad all the times I messed can now help you.

But to answer the question #51 you will need to follow along closely.












It appears on the far right side everything is okay.
The problem is the treads overhang on the left side but not the right.??
On the right side make a " Finished Miter Cut Edge " when done it will cover the edge of the treads and the finished riser toe kick.
The toe kick that's in question to the left dives into the side of the " Finished Miter Cut Edge."
Picture the trim in the video as the toe kick on the right.


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