# Tying off unused 220 line



## Millstone (Sep 7, 2009)

I've heard that if there is a (hypothetical) line like this in a hidden space and you don't want anyone touching it, you can tie the red and black 120v lines together, so that the breakers trip whenever you energize the circuit. Any risk of fire here?


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## 300zx (May 24, 2009)

Why not take the wires of the breaker or put wirenuts on wire ? Anytime you have a "Short" you run a risk of a fire.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

While it would trip the breaker, it is one of the most stupid comments I have read in a very long time.
It also, could blow up the breaker and blow out the panels stabs, but most dangerous, it could blow up in the face of the uninformed person attempting to close it. Separating them and capping them in an accessible box is what you do.


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## Millstone (Sep 7, 2009)

J. V. said:


> While it would trip the breaker, it is one of the most stupid comments I have read in a very long time.
> It also, could blow up the breaker and blow out the panels stabs, but most dangerous, it could blow up in the face of the uninformed person attempting to close it. Separating them and capping them in an accessible box is what you do.


So... when you replace a split-circuit kitchen receptacle and forget to remove the tab on the new outlet, turning on the breaker results in explosions and not a tripped breaker?


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## 300zx (May 24, 2009)

J. V. said:


> It also, could blow up the breaker and blow out the panels stabs, but most dangerous, it could blow up in the face of the uninformed person attempting to close it..


He DIDN'T say it would but its a Possibility.:yes:


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

It's rarely ever a good idea to intentionally trip a breaker at line voltage. Technically speaking, if a breaker has tripped on a short circuit (not a long-term overload) its life is over; every manufacturer recommends that it be replaced. 

If you're not going to use the line, insulate each wire (except the ground) individually. That way, it doesn't matter if it's energized or not. 

It's always better to disconnect it in the panel, you can leave the breaker in if you want. It's even better if the other end of the wire is in a box. 

Rob

P.S. If you short out a Zinsco or FPE breaker, there's a fair chance that it won't trip at all, and a very good chance of a fire.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I would disconnect at the panel for sure. In fact cut out all the wire where you can reach, that way you'll only be left with an inaccessible wire in the wall. Still cap the ends "just in case". I had such wire in the wall and I could not for the life of me figure out what it did. I never managed to get power to it and did lot of continuity tests to see if it lead to some other place etc...

Ended up cutting the wire so it's not stripped then put a wire nut on each one then taped it. Even if it magically was to get power it would be safe afaik. 

Also I did not realize a short was that bad on a breaker. That's good to know. I've only done it a couple times before. Never did a 240v short before though (and hope I never do!)

When replacing a split plug the FIRST thing I do is remove the tab, and make sure there's plenty of air space between so it can't arc.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Just cap it off. Never connect the hots together. Then, pull the breaker, or disconnect the circuit at the breaker.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

1. Unhook the wires from the respective breakers down in the panel, cap them off individually, and put labels on them explaining where they lead to. Tape on the wire nut if it won't stay on the single wire end by itself.

2. Cap off the wires individually at the far end, carefully stuff them back into the box, and screw on the box cover. Do not cut off the wires since someone in the future might like to use them again.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

There is a home improvement guy on TV(if your from Canada or maybe even the US you know who I mean, he is by far the most popular reno guy on tv right now) and he always says to cap the lines for if someone energizes it will trip the breaker. This is a guy who some people take his words as the only way to do it.

I beleive that you should never do this, what happens if you got a bad breaker and it does not trip. It will probably cause a nice big flame and lots of damage.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Deliberately Shorting 220v?*



Millstone said:


> So... when you replace a split-circuit kitchen receptacle and forget to remove the tab on the new outlet, turning on the breaker results in explosions and not a tripped breaker?


You're missing the point! The Circuit breakers are there to protect against a mistake or a fault! No one is suggesting to DELIBERATELY take a hazardous and dangerous action. Besides. Any Electrician (or DIY'r) who doesn't Double 
Check their work before turning the power ON is either careless or absent minded and doesn't belong doing dangerous work!!!Don't Drink and Drive! (Gotta give those Smilies a break)!!!


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

darren said:


> There is a home improvement guy on TV(if your from Canada or maybe even the US you know who I mean, he is by far the most popular reno guy on tv right now) and he always says to cap the lines for if someone energizes it will trip the breaker. This is a guy who some people take his words as the only way to do it.e.


Are you sure he was not saying to cap the wires individually so there is no short circuit and the breaker does not trip if somebody accidentally energizes the circuit?


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

darren said:


> There is a home improvement guy on TV(if your from Canada or maybe even the US you know who I mean, he is by far the most popular reno guy on tv right now) and he always says to cap the lines for if someone energizes it will trip the breaker. This is a guy who some people take his words as the only way to do it.
> 
> I beleive that you should never do this, what happens if you got a bad breaker and it does not trip. It will probably cause a nice big flame and lots of damage.


That why real electricians never listen to any of those hacks on TV. We only scrutinize them. They are always doing something stupid or giving bad advice. Anyone who would purposely connect two hot wires together is an idiot. Plain and simple.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Advice? by an "Expert"?!*



J. V. said:


> That why real electricians never listen to any of those hacks on TV. We only scrutinize them. They are always doing something stupid or giving bad advice. Anyone who would purposely connect two hot wires together is an idiot. Plain and simple.


You've said it all, J.V.! The problem (about bad advice) is not with professional Electricians or experienced DIY'rs. When Do it Yourselfers who are just beginning receive such ill fated advice from a so-called "Expert" that's when we should be concerned. Dealing with such potential hazards that involve Electrical or Plumbing work (not necessarily gas, even water supply can involve substantial property damage and can put life in jeopardy) the people dishing out the advice should at least have some Official Accreditation. Not just ratings! (Eliminate confusion:yes::no:through Education)
:drinkon't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> So... when you replace a split-circuit kitchen receptacle and forget to remove the tab on the new outlet, turning on the breaker results in explosions and not a tripped breaker


Best case you get a little of both.

If it's an FPE breaker you may just get the explosion :thumbup:




> There is a home improvement guy on TV(if your from Canada or maybe even the US you know who I mean, he is by far the most popular reno guy on tv right now) and he always says to cap the lines for if someone energizes it will trip the breaker


:jester: What a freaking idiot. :jester:


Creating an intentional short is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard of (except when tracing circuits:laughing


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Commenting about "advice"? , shorting 2 live wires!*



220/221 said:


> Best case you get a little of both.
> 
> If it's an FPE breaker you may just get the explosion :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Some time ago I was working with a Senior Electrician in a factory and he did exactly what you said (in parentheses). Miracle is that it was an FPE breaker. That guy had this thing about working LIVE on Feeders, too. One day we were installing a Commercial Microwave in the kitchen of a fancy restaurant in Manhattan. For some reason the NEW line (#8/3. Old NEC) was live. I begged him to shut the breaker. NO I can do it LIVE. OK. Next thing we heard a big bang. Worse than July 4 Rockets. Maybe the taping job wasn't so great! The Locknut melted to the wire... Kevin, if you read this, try to have a good laugh...(No matter what):laughing::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

spark plug said:


> Some time ago I was working with a Senior Electrician in a factory and he did exactly what you said (in parentheses). Miracle is that it was an FPE breaker. That guy had this thing about working LIVE on Feeders, too. One day we were installing a Commercial Microwave in the kitchen of a fancy restaurant in Manhattan. For some reason the NEW line (#8/3. Old NEC) was live. I begged him to shut the breaker. NO I can do it LIVE. OK. Next thing we heard a big bang. Worse than July 4 Rockets. Maybe the taping job wasn't so great! The Locknut melted to the wire... Kevin, if you read this, try to have a good laugh...(No matter what):laughing::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


hahah reminds me the time I was working on a live circuit because (as I posted here) our panel is very hard to get to so I did not want to go through the trouble of turning it off, and turning it on is even harder (weird angle and hard to turn a breaker on without your hand)

So I'm working on this light socket and had to pass the wire through a loop, while being very careful I tried to avoid it from contacting, well, it did. POOF! in my face. My mom was paranoid (electricity scares her, and seeing me on a ladder fiddling up there while it was live scared her even more). She totally freaked out, was funny. At least the breaker was off now. :laughing: It also answered my question as to whether they used the neutral or the hot as the traveler wire in the light switch. They used the neutral. (is that even right? I would have figured you always use the hot). 

One thing I refuse to do is work on a live 240v circuit though including a split plug on a double breaker. I can handle 120, but 240 scares the crap out of me. :laughing:


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

micromind said:


> It's rarely ever a good idea to intentionally trip a breaker at line voltage. Technically speaking, if a breaker has tripped on a short circuit (not a long-term overload) its life is over; every manufacturer recommends that it be replaced.
> 
> If you're not going to use the line, insulate each wire (except the ground) individually. That way, it doesn't matter if it's energized or not.
> 
> ...


From my own (unfortunate & unintentional) experience. An FPE WILL trip on a SHORT. Of course, after heating the circuit to dangerous levels. It WON'T trip, however, on a GROUND FAULT. Meaning. Where the HOT wire is touching a GROUNDED object. Like a pipe. It'll act like a torch. Arcing away till the house burns down!!!(No matter what):furious::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Addendum to previous post!*

...You do that twice (Intentionally or otherwise Shorting the circuit) on an FPE breaker. And you can throw it away. It'll burn out!!! (eliminate dangerous products from the market) :furious::furious::furious:Now more than ever!!!


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Relocating a taped off 12/3 resi kitchen home run. Pulled it in thru a plastic box and, boom. 

Nothing but smoke damage.:jester:

It wasn't me but I must share the blame because he is my knuckleheaded son. I get more careful every day as he gets more dangerous. Freaking kids :jester:


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 18, 2009)

darren said:


> There is a home improvement guy on TV(if your from Canada or maybe even the US you know who I mean, he is by far the most popular reno guy on tv right now) and he always says to cap the lines for if someone energizes it will trip the breaker. This is a guy who some people take his words as the only way to do it.
> 
> I beleive that you should never do this, what happens if you got a bad breaker and it does not trip. It will probably cause a nice big flame and lots of damage.



Which one, cuz now I wanna watch him so I can critique his show........could be entertaining......


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## JeepRadioGuy (Mar 7, 2015)

Hi all,

I just saw this post and wanted to confirm that I understand this correctly. If I disconnect a 220 line inside the breaker box, cap and tape the tape the ends, the unused wires (capped) can be left in the breaker box loose and this meets NEC?

Please confirm. - Thank you.


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## sparky90 (Aug 1, 2014)

JeepRadioGuy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just saw this post and wanted to confirm that I understand this correctly. If I disconnect a 220 line inside the breaker box, cap and tape the tape the ends, the unused wires (capped) can be left in the breaker box loose and this meets NEC?
> 
> Please confirm. - Thank you.


Yup, should be fine. it might even be a good idea to tag where the other end of the wire is going. However if the wire has been cut and buried in the wall with no intention if ever being used then you should pull it from the panel and cut it back as far as you can until it is out of sight. In some cases you may want to not use a wire any longer but it may run in an attic or crawl space. it could be of some value at a later date so, cap it off, and box it up and cover it where it can be seen, label it. In the panel remove wires from breaker and neutral bar. Cap them and mark them to match the other end.


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## JeepRadioGuy (Mar 7, 2015)

Thank you for the clarification and the suggestions.

I'll pull it out of the box and label it in case we would ever want to use it again. 

Best wishes.


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## teamo (Sep 7, 2008)

Which one, cuz now I wanna watch him so I can critique his show........could be entertaining.....

The show is one in the Mike Holmes series. He has had several different shows over the past few years such as "Holmes Makes it Right" and "Holmes Inspection". I remember the episode from a while back and he did in fact say to wire nut the two hots together and not to cap each one individually so that if anyone ever connected them to a breaker then the breaker would trip. 
I actually like the show because they use a lot of good products and the finished results are pretty good but it is easy to critique the show and pick up on some of the bad advise, especially the electrical stuff.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> I remember the episode from a while back and he did in fact say to wire nut the two hots together and not to cap each one individually so that if anyone ever connected them to a breaker then the breaker would trip.


Are you positive it was 2 hots (240V) ? Or was it a hot and a neutral (120V) ?

I'm not defending the practice in either case, but there is a big difference in energy between the two.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Oso954 said:


> Are you positive it was 2 hots (240V) ? Or was it a hot and a neutral (120V) ?
> 
> I'm not defending the practice in either case, but there is a big difference in energy between the two.


I saw that show also, and I think him and the electrician in later shows said the same thing. and it was a stove circuit.


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