# Help! I need to know how to start finishing my basement.



## brightred (Nov 1, 2006)

I am starting to finish my basement and need to know how to frame it and what tools I need. I don't even know how or where to start.

Thank you for your support!


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## dougrus (Sep 16, 2006)

Hi and welcome.
Are you asking how to frame a wall _only_ or are you new to home improvement and are interested in finishing a basement?
What is your experience level?...what types of home improvement skills do you currently have?


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*check out yummy mummy about your basement reno.*

You can check all my questions out. I have just started to renovate my basement and I am really a newbie at it.

I have just installed my top plate, bottom plate, and 8 studs, with the help of all these wonderful people at this chat site.

They are all amazing.


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## the man (Mar 16, 2006)

*renovate basement*

First thing you should do is get a Building Permit

al


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## brightred (Nov 1, 2006)

Thank you all so much for your help. I have electrical, plumbing and woodworking experience but I have never started anything like this from the beginning. I don't want it to look like an experiment when it is finished.

Thank you again and anything else you have will be of great help to me.


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## Double A (Sep 10, 2006)

There are two current threads documenting basement remodels. I would start reading those and plan accordingly.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brightred*

The tools that you need to start in my opinion is 
a hammer drill, a level, a measuring tape, saw, pencil, concrete screws, and wood screws, and of course 2 X 4 wood studs, to start.

And something else, a lot of DETERMINATION.:yes: 

Good Luck.

Keep at it. It is not that difficult. Time consuming, yes, but not difficult if you have a lot of patience.

I am almost finished framing two walls.


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## Colonel Hogan (Sep 3, 2006)

*Basement Remodeling Process*

The first thing you need is a PLAN. This starts with the PURPOSE of the space, i.e. how will you use the space(s). The definition of the room(s) purpose(s) will determine its functional requirements. Start by making an accurate plan view drawing of the entire space on graph paper using an appropriate scale (1/4"=1' for example). Don't include too much detail, just what is on the floor. Then you can make clear overlays for specific things like electrical, HVAC, plumbing etc. on MYLAR using Film Lead in different colors. You need to make a separate list of any obstacles in advance, since you will have to address all of them sooner or later (the sooner the better). Be sure to include support members, utilities, soil pipes, and floor drains etc. For each Mylar sheet you can develop additional sheets listing needed materials, tools, rentals, subcontractors etc.; additional sheet(s) can list a step by step process description for each construction phase. You can then place these grouped sheets in a logical order of construction. This sort of approach will help you throughout the ordeal (I meant process) as you inquire about materials, post questions on forums etc. and will help you organize all your information. A useful tool I recently discovered (2 years too late!) is a free program called "SketchUp!" available at GOOGLE.COM it allows you to draw to scale and rotate your drawings among other features.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

brightred said:


> I am starting to finish my basement and need to know how to frame it and what tools I need. I don't even know how or where to start.
> 
> Thank you for your support!


Ok, I had posted this a while back on the 'remodeling' area of the forum. I hope that something in it helps you:

*Insulation:*
#1.) ...It is best to have a 1-2" ventilation air space between concrete and un-faced insulation.
Use a R-13 Value insulation with the vapor barrier facing to the warm side of the rooms. We like to install thick foam board insulation on the lower 12" of the wall cavities...just in case of water issues. It is also good to use 1/2" thick by 3" wide Strips of wood or even pressure treated plywood, in the event of a water issue in the future. Install these along the lower part of your walls prior to the sheetrock installation. As stated earlier, designing is the first step to do once you take your actual measurements of the space you have to work with.

*Framing:* 
#2.) You could actually use 2x3's since the insulation is already there, but, as a 'newbie', I would advise using all 2x4's. You will want to use pressure treated 2’x4's for the bottom plates (PT on anything that you will attach to concrete). If you feel comfortable with such a tool: Use a 'powder actuated 22 caliber fastening gun'. Use *coated* 2 ½ “ nails or longer (ceramic ‘coated’ nails have a grey color to them. You need coated nails because the current pressure treated process used for wood contains heavy amounts of copper. This reacts with regular ’bright’ nails and causes rust) Get various levels of power for the firing caps. I suggest #3 & #4. return the boxes you don't use.

Use regular KD grade 2x4 Lumber for the top plates and the studs. Placed 16" OC (On Center). This means what is sounds like. The literal center of each stud (Half of the 1 1/2" will be exactly 16" away from eachother). Make sure that you pick out nice, straight pieces.
If you are unsure of using/renting a nail gun, you can use screws to attach your framing members. If you use screws, get at least 2 ½ “ or longer. I suggest using DECK screws (also for the areas where you attach studs to the bottom PT plate for the same reason as stated above) That length is sufficient, since you are not supporting anything structurally. You are just building ‘partitions’.

*Design:*
#3.) Do a layout of your basement on paper with the actual measurements of what you want to do with your basement area in relation to walls, closets, rooms, etc.

*Materials:*
#4.) Use this layout to determine the amount of lumber and other materials you will need.
Remember to get long straight lengths for your top and bottom plates (12’ - 16’)

*Method:*
#5.) How to build your walls is determined on the age of your home. You see, if you have an older home, then the heights between your concrete floor and your floor joists will be inconsistent. Additionally, there really are no poured-concrete basement floors that are truly level all the way through. 
To pre build walls and stand them up and have them fit right, in addition to knowing where to install ‘corners’, corner nailers, etc….is really not in the newbie skill level.
So, I would suggest you just go by the ‘stick-framing’ method. What this is, can be found in #7.)

*Note:*
#6.) Assuming you have a home 20 years old or less, if you have to build any doorways, it is unnecessary to install actual ‘headers’ on top of the doors, since these are only partition walls. Your house is already built with all the headers and supports that are supposed to be in it. We see this waste of time and lumber a lot in DIY-er basements.

*Stick Framing:*
#7.) If you are going to put a Sheetrock ceiling in, then it is best to start at your ceiling first and install strapping every 16” OC. This will also give you something to attach any walls that you build, which may run parallel to your floor joists. 
After you do that (even if you plan on installing a ‘dropped ceiling’) See the next step:

*Walls:*
#8) Layout your walls on your floors first by cutting and laying your PT 2x4’s on the floor. Mark where your studs will go FIRST based on your layout needs. Then fasten your bottom plate to the concrete floor. Fire-in your concrete fasteners between each stud. That way, if a nail does not go in all the way, it will not effect your stud placement (which you were smart enough to mark out before -You can also use concrete expandable fasteners for this, like “Red Heads“. Tho this takes A LOT more time)

*Marking out the studs for the top plate:*
#9) Take, a KD piece of lumber that you will use to make the top plate that will match that bottom plate and place it along side of the now installed PT bottom plate. 
Transfer the marked stud lines onto the top plate using a speed square (triangle). Much quicker and accurate this way. It’s how we frame entire houses.

*How to level the bottom and top of walls:*
#10) Cut a STRAIGHT piece of 2x4 to just over the length of your floor to ceiling height. You will use this as a straight edge to place your level against to mark up where your top plate will be on the ceiling. Just hold the straight 2x4 against one side of the bottom plate. Place a 4’ level or longer level’ against it. (we prefer to use a 6’ level for this) Then line it up to the ceiling and make a mark on the joist or strapping for the matching edge of your top plate.
Do this at one end, of the length of the bottom plate. And then at the other end of the bottom plate. Laying out this way for each length of wall.

*Studs:*
#11) Take the measurement for each of your studs. Cut them exact, to a 16th of an inch to get the stud to fit tight, but not so tight that it bends or bows. If you shortcut a stud, you can shove a shim into the space to tighten it. (Side point- virtually every piece of lumber has what is called a ‘crown‘. A crown is a slight ‘hump‘. Try to make all the crowns of your studs face one way…usually towards the inside of a room. This way, your walls aren’t wavy)
On all doorways that will have either a door or some kind of casing: Make sure that you 'double' the studs going all around the opening. This gives you about 2 1/2" beyond the door jam to be able to nail your standard 2 1/2 " casing to.

Last: As you go along, you can check your walls and studs periodically for alignment using your levels, framing square, eyeball, tape measure and even a string stretched tight to make sure a wall is straight.

After this phase of framing, you would then run your electrical and heating lines. Then insulate, then sheetrock and tape. Then paint your walls and install doors and do the trim last....

:thumbsup: 
GOOD LUCK!


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## brightred (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks again everyone! I have all plumbing roughed in, heating and air in. I got a bid for 15K around 500 square feet of finished space. I am going to do this myself, I need to start framing and secure an electrician to install a subpanel and a good plumber. I can handle the rest with help from everyone here. thanks again for your input it is very helpful! :thumbup:


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

You can also do the electrical and plumbing yourself if you want to... especially electrical which is not hard... subpanel is not hard either.... plumbing is a bit harder but it is still doable... for 500 sq feet... it is easier my base ment is about 1000 sq. ft... I have done everything myself now is doing the drywall hanging... and I spent already close to one year on it doing it part time... my wife keep budding me saying why not hire someone else to do everything... for that there are a number of reasons: one, it is my interests. two, others will not do as a throughal job as yourself, the owner, third, save some money, four, you can be proud of yourself when finishs and get a lot of experience, five, save some money, normally it is the about the same amount you spent on material... but my wife said she is going to kick me out from the job if I don't finish it by the time she come back to Canada on next spring after she departed to US in Christmas... I intend to work 24x7 in these coming months...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuiporng*

Lucky you, you get to spend 24/7 on your basement.

I have two kids and a third one, my husband, to take care of and a business that I run from home. 

So I predict my basement will take approx. 5 years to complete. :laughing:


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Your husband should be proud of you... I wish my wife like you but wait a minute, if she does, we will agruing who should nail that nail, it is better this way.... so I got to do everything myself...


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Before you build anything make sure you have satisfied yourself that you have solved any short term and long term moisture problems.

On the exterior, install gutters, downspouts and downspout extensions (10' minimum). Make sure the surface water drains away from the house and has a place to go during periods of very high rainfall.

If you have properly built basement with one or two drain tile loops (inside and/or outside), all the better.

Coat the interior of the basement walls with a proven first class coating, like Thoroseal and not just a paint. This will be your last moisture barrier and minimize moisture transpiration and keep humidity down.

As has been proven many times, the control of moisture is the most important item when it comes to finishing a basement.

If you don't control the moisture, your well planned and executed work will have left you with a bad project.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

KUIPORNG said:


> You can also do the electrical and plumbing yourself if you want to... especially electrical which is not hard... subpanel is not hard either.... plumbing is a bit harder but it is still doable... ...


 
Not necessarily.......

..... I don't know how things are in Canada, But, in our parts, you are required to have a licensed electrician and a licensed plumber involved, to do the corresponding work.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuiporng*

I know what you mean about having someone else tell you what to do.
(Whenever my father comes over, he looks at me and shakes his head)
(He is from the old school of thought and thinks that this is no job for women). 
I have to put him in his place sometimes.

My husband let's me do it the way I want. He admits that he does not know anything about renovations.

I am the expert :yes: .

(He is very proud of me, and supports anything that I want to do.)


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## HarryHarley (Nov 17, 2006)

You gotta sister????


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*harryharley*

Unfortunately not, (did always want one though).
I have 2 brothers, and you know what, they know nothing about diy.
(I get this from my dad, or I am the postman's daughter. :laughing:


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## brightred (Nov 1, 2006)

Well it has been 2 weeks today that I started my basement finishing project. I have all framing done, the shower is in and the electric will be finished tomorrow. Wow I love the library, what a great resource. Thank you all for your help and now I am off to try and gather information on home theater design.:thumbup:


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brightred*

How have you been able to finish so fast?

It has been 2 months for me since I started and all I have done is framed 2 walls.

Mind you, this is not my only focus.

Are you doing it all yourself, 24/7?

I would love to see some pictures.


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## sixkids (Dec 29, 2006)

Does anyone have any suggestions on what is the best paint on moisture barrier for basement walls? I have a dry basement except for one corner, the lowest point of ground on my property....it stays dry now after adjusting the drainage system, but I am concerned that the moisture buildup is still there. I am planning on starting to stud out my basement in 2 weeks. Any suggestions????

Mom of Six Kids


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

have you tried hydraulic cement?


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

*Help! I need to know how to start finishing my basement.*

Hydraulic cement is not a waterproofing paint ot coating. It is a cement based waterproofing material used for plugging cracks, holes and joints that are leaking. It has been used on commercial, residential, industrial and civil(dams) construction for the past 50 years or so.

A good waterproofing coating is Thoroseal (messy) that is not a paint-type coating like DryLok. Also been around for a long time.


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## jadams68 (Jan 9, 2007)

Great information here... it validated everything I've planned and researched so far.

I'm going to launch into the framing of my basement on Jan 15th MLK day...I have 4 guys taking the entire week off to help so with some luck I may actually be running electric sooner than I thought.

My township goes by the "Wife Rule" which is you have 3 months to start a job and 6 months to finish or you're pulling permits again...


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Seems like this is the thread where people are jumping in who are finishing their basement. I found this forum today (I visit woodnet a lot, good home improvement section there). Anyway, I am of the opinion if you do not know where to start then you are likely in over your head. Get a couple of good books and read up. Make sure you know what you can and cant do. Sometimes it makes more sense to hire out parts of the job. For me, that's the drywall. I have done it. I have even taught a class on how to do it. My basement is 60 4x8 sheets. They will be hung tomorrow. 'Rockers' should be done before lunch. Tapers will be done by the next day. total job done in a week (dry time slowing things down). Cost is $40 per sheet (that price includes all materials) and I'm ready for paint. For me to do it myself it would take a month of eves and Saturdays, at least. So, my advice, know your limits.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

You have a very good point, except that mean you never learn the skill which is go with you for your life.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> You have a very good point, except that mean you never learn the skill which is go with you for your life.


I think you are referring to my post. Sure - Learning is key. I didn't mean to imply that one should not tackle something they haven't done before. But - They should be prepared to educate themselves and not dive in with no prep. A statement like the OPs 

"I am starting to finish my basement and need to know how to frame it and what tools I need. I don't even know how or where to start." Is certainly not the question they should be asking. I'm not certain what the reight questions would be. Problem is, I read that question as coming from somone who may be in way over their head. Hence my response.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

You are definitely right on this.... Reading/Studing/..etc. is a key for DIY... I also amazed you can get such price $40 per sheet for your renovation... I think the material itself cost about half the price, plus equipment...etc... this is a good price.... I wonder this is a industry standard price though, because I thought it would be much higher than this...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brik*

I agree with you when you say you have to research what you plan on doing. 
I myself have researched and know what my limits are.
But, after doing extensive research on adding extra outlets, I was able to do it this weekend.
So, if you really are determined and are will TO INVEST A LOT OF TIME, then you can really master pretty much anything.

Kuiporng:

I heard that the drywall industry standard is $2.00 per square foot to install only. (not materials).
In Toronto, anyway.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> You are definitely right on this.... Reading/Studing/..etc. is a key for DIY... I also amazed you can get such price $40 per sheet for your renovation... I think the material itself cost about half the price, plus equipment...etc... this is a good price.... I wonder this is a industry standard price though, because I thought it would be much higher than this...


Total cost $2450 for 60 sheets, ready for primer. Next closest price $5800. Rockers are here now. Should be done by 4 or 4:30. The suplyer delivered the sheets yesterday. I asked him his retail price per sheet and he said about $13 (4x8 sheets). Add to that the 5 buckets of mud ($15??) they delivered and the case of glue ($40??) plus screws and nails ($20??), tape and corner bead. I figure they are at about $1000 for materials more or less. Today, 2 men for 6 hours. Guessing 2 men for three more 6 hour days is 4 days times 6 hour, equals 24 hours. ($2450 - 1000)/24 = ~$60/hour. If the company is paying the crew $20/hour/man then thats $40*24hours to go towad overhead and profit. I figure that this company is certainly not lossing money on my job. They are not making a killing either. Sounds to me like a fair price. 

Key for me is that the job is DONE! I can then focus on priming, painting, finish carpentry, finish electrical, etc. For me, by myself, I figure it would take me 6 to 8 weeks to do the job. For them it will be one week, counting for dry time between coats of mud. Drywall is about the middle of the entire start to finish of a basement project. There are lots of things that take time after the drywall. Yes, it appears mostly complete but lots still to do.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I built my basement using approx 100 sheets, it is about 1000 sq. ft... I kind of surprise it takes so little time to setup 60 sheets with 2 men... it took me about a month to set up. may be 2 weeks if work full time....


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

We will see - They started at about 10:30 this AM. Its almost 2PM now. They are taking their first break. Ceilings are done. Soffits are done. Sq footage of area is about 800 off the top of my head.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

yummy mummy said:


> I heard that the drywall industry standard is $2.00 per square foot to install only. (not materials).
> In Toronto, anyway.


 
This is why people said everything in Canada is expensive, this will cost me $6400 labour alone. I feel better though means my work does worth somthing...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuiporng*

Your work is worth way more, because the sense of satisfaction that you are getting is priceless.

Also, you know exactly the quality and workmanship that you put into it.

I think that knowledge is power.
And the more knowledge you have, in this case about construction and building, the better quality renovation you will have.


My opinion anyway.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement/inspiration...


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

FYI - An update on my drywallers for those that may be interested. 4:30 was estimated time to completion. Its now 5:05 and they have finished hanging all the rock. 60 sheets. Dang, 35 minutes longer than promised! I ought to hold back some cash from final payment. HA just kidding. They did a good job and worked their butts off. Just installing corner bead and their done. So far money well spent.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brik*

How about some pictures when you are done?

I would love to see the end product.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

K - End of day pics


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brik*

Not to disappoint you but I have never seen any drywall ever hung like that before.

They were hung vertically creating a lot of seams.
Drywall is usually hung horizontally and the seams should be staggered.

I am curious to know how they will be dealing with the seams that also have the screws or nails beside them?

(You should make them do it over and don't pay them. :laughing: )


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

To be honest, there are people hanging it vertical, it is not the best way but there are people doing that. Professional usually hang it horizontal though to achieve the best... but it probably not worth to tear down what already done and redo it.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Round here its common to hang vertical when the wall height is less than 8'. You have no butt seams, only tapered seams.

Using a 24' wide by 7' tall wall as an example. 
Hanging 8' sheets horizontally you have 24' of tapered seams and 14' of butt seams.
Hanging vertical you have 35' of vertical tapered seams. Both have same amount of corner and ceiling seams.

So in my example, and in my case, you have fewer seams going vertical.

When you go horizontal is when you use 10', 12' or 14' sheets. In my case I would have had way too much waste using long sheets.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I think both sides have valid arguments, it will come down to personal preferences, I personally feel vertical seam is easier to show and more difficult to hide, as I see finished walls before, when they hang vertically, they are very easy to identify... 

but you probably right on the economic point of view, vertical save more sheets... that is why I used much more than you even though I have only 200 feet bigger than your place, well I have bathroom as well...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

I guess you can hang vertical if you want, but I think that you can see vertical seams much more than horizontal.

I hope the taping and mudding turn out good for you.

I personally, when the time comes, will do it horizontally.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Well, first coat of mud went on today. Looks good so far. Better than I could have done for sure. I expect it to turn out just fine.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*brik*

I'm sure you could have done just as good.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Maybe but not the entire basment in 3 hours!!!


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*Seeing the job of yours is priceless*

but you can never see the final products which is totally done by you yourself now... that... I think is priceless


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuirporng*

I absolutely agree with you.


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