# New meter base and panel, wire size



## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

I have read and searched a bunch on wire size and I wondered if you guys could confirm that #2/0 copper is fine to run from the meter base to the panel. Upgrading to 200 amp service, 200 amp base and 200 amp panel. From what I gather its ok for service wires at 200 amps, but in other applications its rated for less. For what its worth, the poco is running #4/0 to the the meter for the new service.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

Your good to go with 2/0 and a #6 bare ground/neutral. The POCO does what they want so don't worry about what size they are running.

You are right though, 2/0 is only good for 185A but the CEC allows us to use it for a 240/120 or 208/120 service that is 200A


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

most likely the POCO is running 4/0 aluminum, not copper. That would be the proper size for 200 amp.

in our NEC, we have a section (table 310.15 B 6) that allows the wire to be undersized for a residential service. I am guessing you have something similar in the CEC.


Darren, you didn't really mean this did you?



> Your good to go with 2/0 and a *#6 bare ground/neutral.*


In the US a #6 would be good for a GEC to certain grounding electrodes but it is not a one size fits all in all situations and I do not believe you meant to infer the neutral can be a #6, or at least I hope. I suspect you were referring to the GEC. The neutral, unless you allow a reduced neutral, would have to be 2/0 cu just line the other service conductors.

at least in the US.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

Nap according to the CEC your allowed to use a reduced neutral. I know in Manitoba your allowed to do this but local jurisdiction may have different rules. I beleive Ontario requires you to have a full size neutral, not sure about BC.


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.
My research has shown that in BC they recently allowed reduced neutrals as well, something to do with the neutral only having to carry the unbalanced load between hots and not the entire thing.
Does anyone know if the main ground electrode to the water pipe has to be #4 bare copper or can that be #6 as well. I have read some conflicting info on this.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

My neutral from the meter to the panel is like 2' long
For the cost difference I'd never undersize it

In the US a #6 is Min for water ground


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> My neutral from the meter to the panel is like 2' long
> For the cost difference I'd never undersize it
> 
> In the US a #6 is Min for water ground


A good point, mine is only going to be a few feet as well.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

for 200a service id run #4 for a ground,#6 is ok for 100a service around here anyway. :thumbsup:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yeah...I use #4 to the water pipes & for the ground rods


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

darren said:


> Nap according to the CEC your allowed to use a reduced neutral. I know in Manitoba your allowed to do this but local jurisdiction may have different rules. I beleive Ontario requires you to have a full size neutral, not sure about BC.


but not a #6 though, right?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> My neutral from the meter to the panel is like 2' long
> For the cost difference I'd never undersize it
> 
> In the US a #6 is Min


NO NO NO.

the neutral is not a #6 unless you have like a 40 amp service. Actually, there is no service legal that would alllow a #6 NEUTRAL.

the GEC to the ground rods, if only going to the ground rods, is a #6 minimum.

to other electrodes, I would need to check, they vary based on the service size


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

you need no larger than a #6 cu or #4 al to the water pipe if we are speaking of the GEC. A bonding jumper is based on the service conductor size.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

for ground to street side of water service i always use a continuous #6 on 100a service,on a 200a i use #4 am i missing something here?cant see it very well in this picture but thats a #6 ground on right side of buss


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

*Reduced neutral*

Ok, here is the info I have on the reduced neutral. It actually does state that for 200amp service its ok to use #6 copper for the neutral wire. It says that this was adopted with the 20th edition of the CEC and adopted without amendments by the BC Safety Authority. I'd love some feedback on this for sure.
I will probably just use the larger neutral since mine is such a short run, but the reasoning stated is interesting.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

#6 ground is what you need, it was #3 but they changed that a few code books ago.

Nap if i was doing my service I would run two 2/0 and a bare #6 from my panel to the meter and then from the meter up to the service head and the inspector would have no problem with it.

To go with the larger neutral is up to you but is a waste, copper is not cheap and it will be alot cheaper to go to the #6. Obviously it is safe or they would not approve it.

Are you doing this yourself or are you hireing someone to do it.


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

darren said:


> #6 ground is what you need, it was #3 but they changed that a few code books ago.


Thats what I thought as well. The inspector here said #6 was fine as well for the water pipe as well as the secondary ground that's required.



darren said:


> Are you doing this yourself or are you hireing someone to do it.


I'm doing this one myself. The inspector here has been really helpful with all the prep work. In BC, homeowners can pull the permit for service upgrade work. The poco won't hook it up until the inspector ok's it anyway. I've gotten a ton of info from here that made me feel this job is quite doable on my own.
I get to start digging the trench tomorrow for the buried conduit since I'm moving the meter location. I can't wait for all that digging! 

Speaking of trenching, I can't seem to find anywhere what the requirements are for underground service conduit in regards to drainage? The only thing the poco info says is that it must be "drained at the building entrance as per the CEC". Can anyone tell me what the requirement is? I'm using DBII pvc 3" conduit.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

I want to make a point here. This post is concerning Canadian Electrical Code, not National Electrical Code (US).

the neutral allowed in Canada is not legal in the US

I think it is a poor allowance but they allow it. While they are correct that the neutral carries the unbalanced load, depending on how a house is wired and how the power is used, that 65 amp rating of that wire can be surpassed without too much difficulty. I see it as cheap insurance to be sure it isn't.




btw guys, that is why I posted:

at least in the US.

a couple posts back but thanks for posting the CEC requirement rovers.


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

rovers1973 said:


> Speaking of trenching, I can't seem to find anywhere what the requirements are for underground service conduit in regards to drainage? The only thing the poco info says is that it must be "drained at the building entrance as per the CEC". Can anyone tell me what the requirement is? I'm using DBII pvc 3" conduit.


It's great to learn about the differences from Can/US codes. I like the debate back and forth. I've decided I will definitely go bigger than the minimum on my neutral, since its such a short run anyway.
But does anyone know about the CEC regarding the drainage for the conduit? I still can't find it anywhere. Thanks guys.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

rovers1973 said:


> It's great to learn about the differences from Can/US codes. I like the debate back and forth. I've decided I will definitely go bigger than the minimum on my neutral, since its such a short run anyway.
> But does anyone know about the CEC regarding the drainage for the conduit? I still can't find it anywhere. Thanks guys.


As a former Canadian, I will definitely try to obtain an updated copy of the Canadian Electrical Code. I kept a copy of the code for many years after I emigrated from (Yes. Leaving a country is spelled with an "E". Coming into a country is spelled with "I".) Canada! But that doesn't help you very much at this time. I'm certain, there's a link to active CEC. One of the DIY'rs/Electricians from Canada should be able to help you. Good Luck.:thumbsup:!


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

darren said:


> To the OP, are you doing an overhead or an underground installation?


Thanks for the info everyone. I'm only really concerned with how this applies to the CEC (although it is cool to learn about the differences with the NEC).
This particular installation is an underground service.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

I beleive they drill a hole in the bottom of the LB, and i beleive they also pack it full of duct seal as well.

I don't do residential so i have never done a residential service before, something simple like this i would ask the inspector what he wants to see.

Don't forget the plasting bushings in the meter, and a grounding bushing in the panel. This only applies if you are useing EMT, if your useing PVC it still doesn't hurt to use the bushings in the meter but are not neccasry.


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks Darren,
I was planning on having the pvc come up from the ground to the bottom of the meter base, and the feeder wires going through the back to the panel inside? Am I wrong in thinking I won't have and LB?? Or am I just confused here. 

I am using emt between the meter and panel, and I have the locknuts and the ground bushing already. By plastic bushing, do you just mean the push in type that go inside the emt fitting to stop the wire rubbing? The ground bushing itself has a plastic sleeve inside already.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

Like i said i don't do residential so i am not sure hows it done. So i'm guessing your panel is on the ground floor and not in the basement. 

Here is what i mean by plastic bushing.
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Discussion on reduced Neutral moved here:

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/discussion-reduced-neutral-65109/


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## rovers1973 (Feb 2, 2009)

darren said:


> Like i said i don't do residential so i am not sure hows it done. So i'm guessing your panel is on the ground floor and not in the basement.


Yes, the house is on a slab on grade and the panel is on the ground floor. The meter and panel are basically back to back. Thanks for the pic of the bushing, I see what you mean now. I'll make sure to pick a couple up.


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