# Butt joint on stud or float?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This has been around for years, I have never seen it used.
https://www.all-wall.com/Categories/TRIM-TEX/Trim-Tex-Buttboard-54in.html


Most hangers are in 2 man crews that never use lifts and they are faster.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

You are being too picky as it doesn't matter which method they use. Either approach can result in a good job or be messed up, it is the experience of the crew that makes the difference. How long have they been in business, any current work in progress you can see, or references.

Also get a contract and establish a payment sequence, avoiding a lot of up front money. You'll also want a certificate of insurance from their insurance company, standard procedure.

Bud


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm no pro but I always put joints on structure.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

stick\shift said:


> I'm no pro but I always put joints on structure.


He did it with flat 2x4s
https://www.diychatroom.com/f101/hanging-sheetrock-12-foot-ceiling-652659/


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

Ditch the drywall and hire a plasterer. Blueboard and plaster. It's better and faster.


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## RetroJoe_1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Davejss said:


> Ditch the drywall and hire a plasterer. Blueboard and plaster. It's better and faster.


 I already priced that out as an option and it's twice as much money. I can't afford it unfortunately.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Sheetrock is not structural. If you want it to survive it has to be mounted on structural elements, either studs (best) or nailers between the studs at 8" separations for proper edge nailing of the rock. (more labor)

Either technique will work. Make sure you execute a contract that specifies removal of waste, wall/stud preparation (nailers, removing bows), nailing pattern, sheetrock thickness, taping method (hot or cold compound), final priming, cleanup and $$$ to withhold pending final approval by YOU, start date, finish date and how to resolve problems (arbitration).

You want to see the finished wall primed so that all blemishes can be seen easily so I advise you make sure that's included - either spray or roll.

If they won't do a contract - find someone that will. Yes, contracts can be a pain and ALL fly-by-night contractors will insist you don't need a contract. Baloney, it protects both of you - this is a business deal, don't be afraid to require someone write down what they will deliver so that you understand it completely.

Don't go for the cheapest - get the one that is the most honorable and constrained in writing to deliver.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

RetroJoe_1 said:


> I was wondering what is better when it comes to where a butt joint on sheetrock should land? I was getting estimates from a couple of sheetrock hangers in the area and one guy said he would make sure it landed on a framing member and that was the best place for it. The other guy said he would rather it float and then he would put some type of special backer shim behind it which would effectively make it a taper joint. I was curious about your thoughts on this?



The second technique is called "back blocking" and frankly not every drywaller has even heard of it. If you really, really want butt joints that are completely flat, then back blocking is the way to go. However standard butt joints on the studs have been used in 99% of houses and if they do a good job you can't tell. So either is fine. If you put a gun to my head, then if everything else about the 2 crews is equal, I'd probably go with the back blocker just because he knows about an advanced technique and is willing to use it, and I like to reward that kind of thing.




RetroJoe_1 said:


> The gentleman who wanted it to land on a framing number also said that his crew does not use they drywall left. He said he's got three guys who climb on scaffolding to mount the sheetrock on the ceiling. He said that the drywall lift just gets in their way. I thought it would be more convenient so I'm not sure whether that should ring an alarm Bell or not.



Doesn't matter, if the crew can work that way it's totally fine. It's their skills in how they cut, attach and finish seams that matters.


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## RetroJoe_1 (Nov 19, 2017)

jeffnc said:


> The second technique is called "back blocking" and frankly not every drywaller has even heard of it. If you really, really want butt joints that are completely flat, then back blocking is the way to go. However standard butt joints on the studs have been used in 99% of houses and if they do a good job you can't tell. So either is fine. If you put a gun to my head, then if everything else about the 2 crews is equal, I'd probably go with the back blocker just because he knows about an advanced technique and is willing to use it, and I like to reward that kind of thing.


I was watching a how-to video on YouTube. The guy is pretty popular and puts out a lot of videos. Based out of Ottawa. He was showing a technique up in the ceiling where he floated a butt joint and put a 1 by 3 behind it. He screwed the one piece of sheetrock into half of the one by three and then pushed up the other piece of sheetrock and screwed the ends on to the other side. So basically a one by three floating behind the sheetrock butt ends. I was just curious if that was stable? I'm assuming if the joists are 16 on Center and the one piece of rock is hanging halfway between them but it's not going to Sag at some point in the future? Seems like a good of technique as any. Any thoughts on that?


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

RetroJoe_1 said:


> I was watching a how-to video on YouTube. The guy is pretty popular and puts out a lot of videos. Based out of Ottawa. He was showing a technique up in the ceiling where he floated a butt joint and put a 1 by 3 behind it. He screwed the one piece of sheetrock into half of the one by three and then pushed up the other piece of sheetrock and screwed the ends on to the other side. So basically a one by three floating behind the sheetrock butt ends. I was just curious if that was stable? I'm assuming if the joists are 16 on Center and the one piece of rock is hanging halfway between them but it's not going to Sag at some point in the future? Seems like a good of technique as any. Any thoughts on that?


IMO - that's VERY bad technique and will crack despite how many screws and gallons of adhesive are affixing the 1X3 to the back of the sheetrock.

It's just as easy to take a couple of 2X4 and cut them to length to bridge two joists at 6-8" centers to make a proper well supported, stable surface to fasten the sheetrock.

Maybe I'm just an old fool that prefers going UP in quality rather than just getting by past the warranty.

My preference is to have someone's grandkids take apart a wall and say, "Gee, that's how they did it back then!" rather than, "no wonder we had to fix it all the time."

I remember stripping the original roof off a 150+ year old farmhouse. A buddy threw his eight foot level on top of the hand-hewn ridge beam and it was "dead on" 150 years later. Gee, that's how they built them back then!"


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## RetroJoe_1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Domo said:


> RetroJoe_1 said:
> 
> 
> > I was watching a how-to video on YouTube. The guy is pretty popular and puts out a lot of videos. Based out of Ottawa. He was showing a technique up in the ceiling where he floated a butt joint and put a 1 by 3 behind it. He screwed the one piece of sheetrock into half of the one by three and then pushed up the other piece of sheetrock and screwed the ends on to the other side. So basically a one by three floating behind the sheetrock butt ends. I was just curious if that was stable? I'm assuming if the joists are 16 on Center and the one piece of rock is hanging halfway between them but it's not going to Sag at some point in the future? Seems like a good of technique as any. Any thoughts on that?
> ...


 I appreciate your feedback. That's what I was concerned about. I'm not an expert by any means so when I see something like that I can imagine that you would have problems. I agree that adding some to buy for framing would be the better way to go. And I completely agree about that old phrase that they don't make things like they used to. I love for somebody to look at my work years from now and say the same thing. Unfortunately it seems most contractors nowadays are more concerned about getting things done quickly rather than well. That's why I think I'm going to hang all of my own rock. I'm pretty perfectionist think so I don't think I could go wrong. As long as I don't do something stupid which is why I'm asking questions on this board. I'll leave the taping to an expert.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That stuff has been around for 20 years, anybody having problems with it would have dropped it by now.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

RetroJoe_1 said:


> I appreciate your feedback. That's what I was concerned about. I'm not an expert by any means so when I see something like that I can imagine that you would have problems. I agree that adding some to buy for framing would be the better way to go. And I completely agree about that old phrase that they don't make things like they used to. I love for somebody to look at my work years from now and say the same thing. Unfortunately it seems most contractors nowadays are more concerned about getting things done quickly rather than well. That's why I think I'm going to hang all of my own rock. I'm pretty perfectionist think so I don't think I could go wrong. As long as I don't do something stupid which is why I'm asking questions on this board. I'll leave the taping to an expert.


You're making good choices. 

Post pics on the way through the project - we all like to follow a success story!

Make it fun, keep a sharp blade in the utility knife and bandaids in your nail bag!

Sign and date the back of the sheetrock!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Domo said:


> You're making good choices.
> 
> Post pics on the way through the project - we all like to follow a success story!
> 
> ...


Sheet rock has a date stamp on the back.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

I leave story of my life on it.:smile::smile:
BTW, I used floating with 3/4 ply behind the joint with about 3" overlap on each sheet. Compounding was about same. Special backer is sold (search and look) with little spacer to draw the ends in to create a recess. If your worker uses longer lengths of drywall by using the backers, even better. I used 8' drywall. There were no cracks along the joints.


If using a backer, first joint needs to have extra screws. Next sheet screwing can push the first joint screws in. After the sheets are screwed in, inspect yourself that there are no joints that move. Gentle pushing will do. I used the same floating for ceilings too. My frames were 16" oc.


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## RetroJoe_1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Domo said:


> Post pics on the way through the project - we all like to follow a success story!
> 
> Make it fun, keep a sharp blade in the utility knife and bandaids in your nail bag!
> 
> Sign and date the back of the sheetrock!


That sounds like a fun idea! And I will definitely post photos! Thank you


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

RetroJoe_1 said:


> He was showing a technique up in the ceiling where he floated a butt joint and put a 1 by 3 behind it. He screwed the one piece of sheetrock into half of the one by three and then pushed up the other piece of sheetrock and screwed the ends on to the other side. So basically a one by three floating behind the sheetrock butt ends. I was just curious if that was stable? I'm assuming if the joists are 16 on Center and the one piece of rock is hanging halfway between them but it's not going to Sag at some point in the future?



Sounds like a particularly bad idea to me. It also sounds like a hack. It's not a back blocking technique (the main point of back blocking is to recess the joint, just like a factory tapered joint). His technique not only does not do that, it also doesn't support the drywall (ceiling drywall is different from wall drywall because of how gravity is operating on it.) I say it's a hack because it sounds like he got into a situation where it was inconvenient to screw to studs for some reason, and whenever you do something of lesser quality due to convenience, I call that a hack.


I would use that technique when making smaller drywall repairs on walls.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

RetroJoe_1 said:


> Unfortunately it seems most contractors nowadays are more concerned about getting things done quickly rather than well.



There is a business aspect to this as well (although frankly it's probably more coincidental than intentional.) I took a shower tiling seminar with Schluter, a German company that makes waterproofing products. There were a couple European guys there, and it was clear they knew what they were doing. We got into a conversation at lunch, and they said there aren't as many jobs in Europe as here, because over here everything ends up being redone or repaired every 10 years. They couldn't believe how much work was being redone and how much more business there was over here. Of course the insinuation was that there is higher quality tile work and waterproofing going on over there. The amount of water damage I see in showers is mind boggling! As are the hack job techniques! It generates tons and tons of business for me!


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> Sheet rock has a date stamp on the back.


It's always fun to find "grandpa Bob's" signature when doing a remodel of the family house.


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