# What's the most versatile miter saw for residential DIY purposes?



## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

I'm a first time homeowner who just purchased an average size 3 bedroom townhouse last summer and I've been getting my tool collection up to speed. I'm mostly where I want to be in the hand tools department so I'm collecting power tools as needed. As far as saws go, I just acquired a 6.5" 20V circular saw, but I feel some sort of miter saw would be useful in the near future. As for what I'll be using it for, here are a few things I can think of:

2x dimensional lumber for wall framing & other projects (finished basement, etc)
base and/or small crown molding
basic shelving projects (no elaborate furniture)
existing fence and shed repair
garden planters for small patio

Stuff like that, really. I don't see myself getting into full-on woodworking nor am I using it for construction. Also no huge/ornate crown molding or lumber bigger than a 4x4. The -most- is if I need to cut a 4x6 for a shed foundation rail or something, but that's pushing it. (Odds are if it's something like that I might start it with a circ saw and finish it by hand.) So with all that being said, what's the most appropriate and/or versatile miter saw I should get? Here are the options currently up for consideration:

12" single bevel
12" double bevel
10" sliding double bevel
12" sliding double bevel (if I get a huge tax refund or something, lol)

I was originally looking at a "stationary" 12" miter but I've heard some opinions that a 10" slider is a bit more versatile, though it is more bulky to store and operate. What say you guys? What's the best all-around miter saw for a DIY guy to have in his basement?


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## 78Vette (Nov 25, 2009)

If you dont get the "most" saw now, you'll certainly wish you did, down the road. Quite possibly sooner then later.
12" sliding double bevel is what i recommend!


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

Another vote for the slider double bevel 12. If you find yourself needing to cut wider lumber you will be glad you did. For casual use a cheap option is Harbor Freight. I like mine. It likes me.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

Go for a 10" slider. Blades are a lot cheaper than a 12" and easier to find. And my Delta isn't too terrible huge to store either, although I use it a couple times a week so it doesn't stay stored very long. 

A word on Harbor Freight: never buy anything from them that runs on electricity. I bought three: a circular saw, orbital buffer, and high speed buffer. The circular saw had no power and finally disappeared in a cloud of smoke. The orbital works alright, but shakes the crap out of me every time I use it. The orbital buffer might be good, but I've only used it once in the 12 years I've had it. Oh yeah, and a 4x8 utility trailer, which is great except for the 4 sets of wiring it's been through. 

A few guys will no doubt chime in that they find good deals there, and as long as you watch out you'll get a good deal. If they were quality tools that argument wouldn't be needed. Buy used before you buy at Harbor Freight.


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

10" slider. For something that sounds like a truly intermittent use tool, the size / weight and such of a 12" slider just doesn't seem necessary. You can probably also get away with single bevel as you can always flip something over.

The kinds of things miter saws are best for include, obviously, miters, but also repetitive cuts on boards. What are the chances you're going to need to be doing miters or repetitive cuts on boards beyond what a 10" slider can handle? Which is likely at least 12" cross cut and maybe 8" on a 45' ??? (Assuming typical 3/4" - 2" boards.)

The only thing I can think of where a 12" may be significantly better is if you're standing up large crown molding against the fence.

As for saws, my dream saw would be the Bosch, but it's something like $800. Right now, I use a very old 12" Dewalt that I borrow from a friend. The one I'll probably get is a Ryobi 10" slider as HD currently has a deal for $229 for the saw and a stand. Usually, I prefer Dewalt / Bosch, though I do have some Ryobi tools. In the Harbor Fright debate, I agree that I won't get power tools from them. We don't have a retail store too convenient to us, but last time I was near one I stopped by just to check out the miter saw. It just 'feels' cheap. Could be in my head, but it just lacked the kind of solid heft you can just sense in Bosch / Dewalt and similar. Ryobi seems a happy medium, but price is personal.

In the end, you don't want to be short on a tool, but if you overbuy you also may be annoyed. Lastly, if the concern is that you might one day EVER need to cut a longer board, well... unless it's a whole lot of them you can always go back to a circular saw from those outlier project tasks.


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for the advise so far everybody! As for the brand of saw I'm after, I'm thinking DeWalt since I'm happy with the tools I have from them so far, though I have read that the Bosch lineup is pretty sweet as well. What I'd be interested in knowing is what are the capacity limits of the saws I mentioned earlier. What can a 10" slider cut that a 12" stationary can't? How about a 12" slider vs the 10"? I've seen the specs but it doesn't paint a clear picture. Also are there tasks (such as dado cuts) that a slider can do that a stationary cannot?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

DeWalt makes a saw that you will like--they have the tallest vertical cut--(think baseboard against the fence)

Look at fence height---cutting crown molding ,nested against the fence is the easiest way--if the fence is tall enough.

All of the name brand miter saws are good--but each has its strengths and weaknesses --

I have an old Delta single bevel that is a joy--tremendously accurate--best machine I own for crown molding---however--the short verticle cut makes it lousy for base moldings.

I also have a DeWalt 12" slider---great for base moldings but to darned big and heavy to haul around---

I also have a cheap 10" slider---I hate the sight lines--generally hate that tool--but it's light and cheap --good for framing and easy to carry---

I had a couple of little sliding 7 1/4 " saws---Kobalt---handy little machine--but to flimsy for professional work---both are now junk---blade guards self destructed--


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## 78Vette (Nov 25, 2009)

Everybody prefers one over the other for various reasons.
All i can say is in regards to the saws you are looking at is, that since i bought the 
Ridgid 12" sliding double bevel, my 10" Dewalt single bevel slider hasnt been used, but to be fair, the Ridgid is on a stand und i dont haul it around much and is permanently set up in my shop.
A 10" may well be all you need at the moment, according to your original post, right up to the point 2x6's enter the picture. *
*


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Mike, the Hitachi C15FB 15 inch is one of my old saws I used to miter 1X8s standing up. I had to modify the guard a little but it did a great job for many years, still did when I sold it. I used the saw to miter risers when building stairs. Really good saw but it is just a chop saw, no compound miter.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-C15FB-15-Inch-Miter-Bevel/dp/B0000223KS
I wore many miter saws out over the years, one of my favorites was a Delta, back in the late 70's or mid 80s, when they quite making that saw I was not happy.

Here is a picture of the monster Hitachi 15 incher, talk about heavy.LOL


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Scottg said:


> 10" slider. For something that sounds like a truly intermittent use tool, the size / weight and such of a 12" slider just doesn't seem necessary. You can probably also get away with single bevel as you can always flip something over.
> 
> The kinds of things miter saws are best for include, obviously, miters, but also repetitive cuts on boards. What are the chances you're going to need to be doing miters or repetitive cuts on boards beyond what a 10" slider can handle? Which is likely at least 12" cross cut and maybe 8" on a 45' ??? (Assuming typical 3/4" - 2" boards.)
> 
> ...


Get out your checkbook! You can grab the bosch double compound slider with a nice blade for like $520 from Amazon...without the stand. My stand was another hundred bucks....but the saw is amazing! Ron


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Sliders were not an option when I bought my 10" Delta single compound. I will certainly look at one of them when I buy again. In the 17 years or so that I've owned it the only time I wished I had a 12" one was when I did some 5" crown. For every other job it has been more than enough.

I move my tools from site to site and rarely leave them on the site overnight. 38 pounds of a 10" saw is about all I care to tote about. 

Whichever you choose you will come to love the tool.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Jim, 15" Holy cow---what a wonderful machine---


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

StoopidMonkey81 said:


> Thanks for the advise so far everybody! As for the brand of saw I'm after, I'm thinking DeWalt since I'm happy with the tools I have from them so far, though I have read that the Bosch lineup is pretty sweet as well. What I'd be interested in knowing is what are the capacity limits of the saws I mentioned earlier. What can a 10" slider cut that a 12" stationary can't? How about a 12" slider vs the 10"? I've seen the specs but it doesn't paint a clear picture. Also are there tasks (such as dado cuts) that a slider can do that a stationary cannot?


Not sure why the specs aren't clear. Saws will - typically - tell you they can do up to a whatever inch thick board and the width capacity at 90 degrees, 45 degrees and maybe one other. Also - ideally - what size crown molding. Now even with those specs, you can sort of cheat a little if very careful. For example, the center of the blade is wider than the side that cuts. So, let's say you have a stationary blade that's only cutting up to X inches wide of a board. Well, if you put a block under it, you could probably make your workpiece higher up and cut something wider. Not sure this is a great idea either, but I've hard of it being done.

Dado cuts could be done with a slider, but not a non-slider. You'd just end up with the blade shape cut in the wood. Even with a slider, I'm not sure dados are the best technique. This is what routers and table saw dado blades are for. I guess you could do this if you moved the workpiece carefully.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

For the money and intended application, I think the Ryobi slider is the best value out there.

I concur with Mort that 10" is the best size for the money.

At $135, hard to beat.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Well a 10" would be adequate for most jobs the title of the thread is the most versatile saw and that goes back to the 12" slider as it can do quite a bit more than the 10" to me nothing was more frustrating than having that last 1/2" that the 10" won't cut. Then having to turn the board around to finish the cut.

Is the slider heavier? yes does it cost more? yes does it take up more room? yes is it worth it? yes I bought my ridgid 12" with stand and about 2 weeks later my neighbor across the street bought a DeWalt 12" slider with stand. He now comes and borrows my saw. Says his is too big a pain to set up. His must be taken off the stand to move it mine has the big wheels and folds up. Just saying.:whistling2::laughing:


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## PD_Lape (Nov 19, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> Well a 10" would be adequate for most jobs the title of the thread is the most versatile saw and that goes back to the 12" slider as it can do quite a bit more than the 10" to me nothing was more frustrating than having that last 1/2" that the 10" won't cut. Then having to turn the board around to finish the cut.
> 
> Is the slider heavier? yes does it cost more? yes does it take up more room? yes is it worth it? yes I bought my ridgid 12" with stand and about 2 weeks later my neighbor across the street bought a DeWalt 12" slider with stand. He now comes and borrows my saw. Says his is too big a pain to set up. His must be taken off the stand to move it mine has the big wheels and folds up. Just saying.:whistling2::laughing:


12" is arguably the most versatile. Sure costs a little more than the 10" but it also does everything easier. If you're gonna buy a power tool then buy something that would give you the best results + convenience. Don't settle for less as that will just hurt your wallet and your time in the long run.

-Paul

_____________________________________________________________


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> to me nothing was more frustrating than having that last 1/2" that the 10" won't cut. Then having to turn the board around to finish the cut.


Well that's one of the questions I was getting at: what exactly can a 12" slider cut that the 10" slider falls short on? If I don't see myself cutting any of those things in the foreseeable future then it would steer me towards the 10". For example, when it comes to base moulding I don't see myself installing anything taller than 5 1/4" in my home, and if I do decide on crown moudling it will be something modest. The really large stuff would look silly in my modest townhouse. As for dimensional lumber, I don't see ever needing to cut anything larger than a 4x6 for my small 20x20 patio and its accompanying shed. I guess that leaves novice carpentry, which I have yet to try my hand in and don't see myself doing anything really elaborate anytime soon. And if I do, I'd probably consider adding a table saw to my collection. 

As for spec confusion, here is what the Dewalt website says about the DW717:
Vertical Capacity\: Baseboard Against Fence 6" Left - 3-1/2 Right"
Vertical Capacity\: Crown Molding Vertically Nested 6-1/4"
Horizontal Capacity\: Baseboard Lying Flat 14"
Horizontal Capacity\: Crown Molding Lying Flat 10-3/4"
45° Bevel Cut Capacity (dimensional lumber) 2x12 (2x14 with back fence)
90° Cross-Cut Capacity (dimensional lumber) 2x12 (2x14 with back fence)"
90° Cross-Cut Capacity (Max Width) 14" Special Set Up
45° Miter Cut Capacity (Max Height) 4"
45° Miter Cut Capacity (Max Width) 8

I don't understand the left/right vertical capacity spec. Wouldn't any cut piece exist on both the left and right side of the blade? I also understand that width wise it can crosscut a 2x12, but what about the height of dimensional lumber along the length of the slide (and not just the height of baseboard against the fence along the tall side of the blade). Again, it comes back to what my limitations will be on this saw.

Oh, and as for the "Why don't you just spend the extra $100 and get the 12" slider?", I have read on a number of posts that the 10" blades offer greater precision to miter cuts than the 12" blades do, so I get the impression that the 10" might give me better results than the more expensive saw. If that isn't true, chime in. Finally I don't have a ton of space in my basement, and it seems the 12" slider will take up more room, especially since the vacuum port is on the back instead of in the middle on the 10" so it'd need less clearance.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Do you have a 2x6 or 2x8 laying around that you could lop about 4" off the end? Maybe you have already done something like this, but, if not, I suggest taking something like that to your local hardware, big box, or wherever you might purchase your saw, and see how everything fits first hand. You don't need the saw running to verify the clearance under the blade with the saw raised, the maximum travel of the slide, any obstructions that the blade guard may introduce, etc. While doing so, you will also see how the various handles and triggers feel, where the slide, bevel and other locks are and how they function, which may or may not affect your decision.


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## 78Vette (Nov 25, 2009)

looks like you already made up your mind.....


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

I'm close to it, unless somebody says "I could not cut [x] with a 10" slider so I bought the 12", keep that in mind." Still can't imagine what [x] would be apart from thin cabinet wood in excess of 14" wide, in which case I would imagine I'd use a table saw for should the need arise. Let me know if I'm missing anything.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I will disagree with most, and say go for the 10". I don't think you'll be using the extra capacity of the 12", and it's not worth it for the extra weight, or extra space it needs. If you will be permanently attaching it to a workbench that's one thing, but for some projects I think you'll want to move it to the work location. Some day that might even be another address. And seriously, are you really going to be cutting things bigger than 14"??

Yes, flipping a board over is a pain, but you really probably need a circular saw anyway. Even if you only use it a couple times, you can easily cut through any wide lumber with a cheapy circular. I bought this one at Harbor Freight and have been using it for several years with moderate use. Yes, I'd like and will probably buy a nicer one since I'm using it fairly often, but it's done me fine.
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-14-i...rcular-saw-with-laser-guide-system-69078.html

You will eventually need to cut through some plywood or something. With a jig (that you can easily make), you have a guide that makes a circular saw pretty much as accurate as a table saw. I highly recommend making that jig.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/reviews/a3602/4283497/

Actually mine was a slightly cheaper version that they don't seem to make anymore, but with Harbor Freight - whatever!


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

I do have a Dewalt DCS391 20V circular saw and I like it so far. Right now it's my only saw. My workbench currently consists of a piece of 2x4 plywood on a pair of sawhorses, so one of the reasons I want a miter saw is so I can accurately cut dimensional lumber and make a proper basement workbench.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

There ya go!

Here is a nice workbench you can make. I put it in my garage. It's simple and can be adapted to what you want. It's sturdier than a standalone bench. One change I'd make now is not to use 1/4" lag screws - I'd use one of the new structural screws instead.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/workshop/workbench/modular-workbench/view-all


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

If space is a factor, the 10 inch when cutting 12 inches square will take up more room than a 12 inch because it has to slide further forward to make a 12 inch cut. I can only speak from my experiences. Working with a miter every day for years, a person weeds out ones that will not hold up and are not accurate. 

Weight has a factor also, but good, and heavy, will win over cheap, inaccurate, and light any day for me. 

A person in the wood working business needs a saw that is accurate and will last. Kinda like buying a cheap pair of work boots, you can buy 6 cheap pair that will last a couple years, or you can buy one good pair that will last that long, same with some cheap built tools. It actually depends how much and how often you use the saw.

One thing a pro and home owner will look for is accuracy, if it isn't accurate the pro will weed it out quickly and probably won't buy that brand again. If the saw gets out of whack quickly some will get frustrated, and some will give up, or put the project on hold, because some don't know the saw is actually what is wrong.

One test I always did on a miter saw I was looking to buy is this: pull the saw out to the fully extended position, as if the saw had just cut the max it will cut. While holding the saw down in that position, try to move the head of the saw side to side using the handle of the saw. See how much play or movement the blade has side to side.

Ideally you don't want any side to side play. Compare all the saws on display, you may be surprised even at some of the more costly saw.

Check out pawn shops and see what they have, there are some good tools to be had at some shops. Some people will buy a tool and pawn it instead of keeping it, other fall on hard times and sell good tools. 

I found out way back when I first stated out how hard it was to use a cheap tool. Example, router bits made of high speed steel, no bearing. It takes an expert to use those bits correctly. They will burn your wood in a heart beat and not last any time until they are so dull they are unusable. Same with a cheap belt sander or cheap electric hand plane, they will mess up more than a person can fix unless used by a person with experience, and then they don't want to use them. 

If you plan to do wood working for a hobby I would go with a saw that is pretty dependable and is a pleasure to use. If you plan to use the tool once and never touch it again, a cheaper tool will do but not the dirt cheap ones. The dirt cheap ones just won't do a good job, IMHO. Some people say that isn't true, I can only speak on my experiences and they didn't work for me.

One more thing, if you plan to sell the saw after using it, get a good one, the cheaper saw don't bring much used. Good grief, I wrote a book.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Ha Ha , a book,but a good read.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

You said if you wanted to cut something bigger you would get a table saw but a long 2x8 you want to cut a little from the end is hard to do on a table saw. But hey you know what you need so go for it.

As for cheap tools when I was starting I bought a craftsman 10" miter (non-slider) It was OK for a while then I noticed it wasn't cutting straight. You could take an hour with squares lining that thing up to where it was perfectly straight, make 3 cuts and it was off again. Not by much but when your doing trim 1/2 a degree will defiantly show.


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

When I mentioned the table saw I meant for dealing with pieces wider than 14" if I wasn't up to cutting it with my circ saw (who knows, I may never have a need for a table). The 10" slider should be able to handle a 2x8 easy and as thick as a 4x if needed if I read the specs correctly.


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## StoopidMonkey81 (May 1, 2012)

Here's another factor for the 12" vs 10" slider debate:
If I do end up getting into basic carpentry (bookshelves and the like), would that swing the scales one way or the other? I'd get a max width of 14" vs 12" (without back fence mods) with the 12" blade, but I keep wondering if the higher precision (less deflection) of the 10" blade is more desirable.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Do you want to build things, or just debate the tools ?

I think you need to go buy a saw and start using it. Until you get a lot more experience in using tools, you are not going to notice blade deflection. The other errors that you are going to make will more than cover it.

I would say go with the 10 inch. If and when you get into enough projects where you find the 10 inch is inadequate, you can buy a 12 inch and then decide whether you keep both saws, or sell the 10" on to a new user.

The tool is not going to make you a good woodworker. The tool just speeds up the job. If the tool gives you a squarer cut than you can do by hand, it may look better. But that does not guarantee that all 4 legs of your bench are going to be the exact same length, or that the bench will end up being square and plumb.


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

StoopidMonkey81 said:


> Here's another factor for the 12" vs 10" slider debate:
> If I do end up getting into basic carpentry (bookshelves and the like), would that swing the scales one way or the other? I'd get a max width of 14" vs 12" (without back fence mods) with the 12" blade, but I keep wondering if the higher precision (less deflection) of the 10" blade is more desirable.



If you really started to get into furniture, you would be tipping the scales towards getting a decent table saw instead of a miter saw in the first place. A miter saw is better for angles, and for repetitive cuts on long boards to size IF you have a good table or stand with blocks. (Though you can do this with a table saw, it's more of a hassle as stop blocks clamped to a rail on a cross cut sled can be a hassle when they get past a couple of feet over the edge of the table... unless (and even if), you build a decent size overfeed for the side.)

A table saw can rip long boards. Even 4x8 plywood if you're careful and have a good outfeed. And a good saw can do reasonably decent miters, etc. etc. But a miter saw can't rip. Yeah, you can rip with a circular saw, but to do furniture it's really all about square and a rock solid fence, etc. Maybe there's folks out there who can do anything with a circ saw and I'm just not that good, but I gotta' tell ya' when I got my Bosch 4100 table saw all of a sudden life got 10x easier in making stuff. And you sure can't rip parts to 1/4" well with a circ. And I find it a lot easier to do dados with the table saw dado stack than my router; though that's a whole 'nother thing.

Always gets back to the same issue: What are you doing? If it's mostly going to be furniture and funds are limited, then it's table saw first, probably one or more routers or a router and router table, THEN miter. If you need to do some occasional crown, borrow a miter from someone. Or wait 'till you can afford a miter also. Or cut by hand.

If it's a ton of crown, or you need to do a ton of repetitive size cuts on long boards for a deck or whatever, or lots of stuff with angled and beveled boards, then it's miter.

Funds not an issue? Then it's both! And you have best of both worlds. I'm getting my own first miter saw with stand in a couple of weeks. And I'm thrilled. Mostly because I can set up the board stops and easily and quickly cut repetitive boards to exactly the same length, after I rip on table saw. Right now, I do this on of three ways:

* Carefully with circ saw., gang cutting wherever possible

* Using an extended rail I clamp to a crosscut sled I built, and then clamp a stop block on that.

* Do cuts that aren't all that exact anyway, finish my joinery, then trim, plane or sand the minor mistakes.

So back to miters then... it seems a 10" slider is in your future, (as it is mine!  I'm doing the Ryobi saw/stand combo for $229. I WANT the Bosch. It's BOOOTIFUL! And sooo smooth. And wonderful. But I just don't need the $600 - $800 tool as the miter is my secondary tool. As long as it's GOOD, I'm good to go. (Also, I work in garage and driveway and this is a less weight unit.) If miter needs were my primary, I'd be going DeWalt or Bosch, (personal preference), but any of the 'better' brands probably cover such needs.

I think your focus on getting yellow/black DeWalt will work out just fine for you if it's really miter saw output solutions you need.


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