# Manual D Friction Rate Worksheet



## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hey guys

I bought the Manual D book so I can redo all my ductworks in my home. I read alot of stuff in the Manual D and some I understood and some just went over my head. I finally figured out I need to first find the friction rate before I can properly size the trucklines. I have a few questions about the worksheet.

1. In the component pressure losses (CPL) some of the values are given in the manual D book in form of a chart. If I cant find the exact values of my current system should I use some of those values? Like example the Electric resistance heating coil,j I put .13 iwc cause on the chart figure 6-3 in the manual D book, it has 1200 cfm at .13 iwc . My blower on heating mode is set for 1200 cfm.

2. Should I have a value for the "Direct expansion refrigerant coil" in the component pressure losses (CPL)? I have A shaped coils. I dont know whats the IWC for them.The coils I got are ASPEN CE48D44-210-020 R410. Should I also use the default values set in Figure 4.2 in Manual D book.

3. I am planning to put 3 manual dampers. So when I put that into the CPL list I should put 0.03 x 3 =0.09 ? Again 0.03 is a value I got from manual D. I looked up the dampers online listing and it said it can withstand max pressure differential up to 1.0 WC. 

4. When calculating the Total Effective length (TEL) it should be only the total trunklines lengths, correct? I dont include the plenum length? I am planning to use R-6 ductboards.

5. If you guys need to know my ESP for my air handler is '0.5 esp ,tested without filter installed, dry coil condition' thats what the manual for the air handler says . AIr handlers is a York MV16CN21H set at 4 ton 1600cfm.

Let me know if I am on the money! lol:thumbsup:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

kilosos2 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I bought the Manual D book so I can redo all my ductworks in my home. I read alot of stuff in the Manual D and some I understood and some just went over my head. I finally figured out I need to first find the friction rate before I can properly size the trucklines. I have a few questions about the worksheet.
> 
> ...


It takes time to understand the manual. Take your time reading it. Ask what you need to. If I can help i will.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

In the manual all it says that " Airflow at nominal voltage , bottom return at 0.5 ESP, tested without filter installed, dry coil condition." It says this below the Airflow charts but the charts don't have a listing of static pressure at each cfm.

There is also a chart in the manual about the heater kits and it lists the max static pressure is .5. 

Here's a link to my manual

http://www.luxaire.com/PDFFiles/255143-UIM-G-1208.pdf

page 10 Table 9 list the heater kit...I got a 10KW heater strip

and page 11 Table 15 list the different CFM settings, below the Table is some notes and Note #1 says about the .5 ESP.

So I dont know if I need to maybe contact York about the issue. I can also get a manometer as I have a fieldpiece hvac tool and it has a add-on manometer I can attach to check static pressure. If you think I can acquire the esp like that.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The foot notes say it will move set CFM up to an ESP of .6".
After that, the CFM is reduced byn 2% for each .1" above .6".

Contact Aspen for teh PS of your coil at what ever CFM your going to be using.

You need the manual for the strip heater kit. that should have the PD of it listed. Also, 10 KW for a 4 ton blower? Gonna have some cool feeling air coming from it. What size is the outdoor unit?

If you have the heat kit model number. I may have its PD at what ever CFMs.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have a 18 seer 2 stage York Affinity 8T system. Outside Unit is a Czh04811B and inside Air handler is A Mv16cn21H. A 4- ton unit. For heating I have the airflow set at 1248 cfm. The air that comes out isnt that hot but it does work.

I really dont know which heating kit is installed but I know its a 10 KW as the installers wrote on the Air handler "10 KW heat". And if its the original heating kit from York then based off the manual it should be the 4hk16501506. Let me see if I can open the air handler and see if I see any label or anything on the heating strips.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

1248 is a bit low for that unit in heat mode.

I don't have that heater's data. but, it should only be a .03 to .07 PD.

10 KW at 1248 is only a 25 degree temp rise. So your defrost air temp is going to feel cool.

You shouldn't need to have the CFM that low to get a nice warm discharge air temp from that heat pump.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ok, I opened my unit and found the label for the heating strip.

It says "Warren Technology" 
Integral Limit Control 
Model: W4k1002B 9.60-10.00x5.50
240 Volt 1PH 2Step 60hz 40.00 amps
1009 9600 watts s/nXXXXXXX
Similar To: 4HK16501006A

Thats all the label says. 4HK16501006A is the yorks heating kit and in the manual it says its a 7.2 KW. Although this one is a 9.6kw . The Warren technology company has its address on the label. Its a local company in my area. I will see if I can contact them. You see anything there that we can use to extract the SP?

.. oh I found the heater online ... check out 

http://www.theacoutlet.com/10KWYORKSTRIPHEAT.htm


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

beenthere said:


> 1248 is a bit low for that unit in heat mode.
> 
> I don't have that heater's data. but, it should only be a .03 to .07 PD.
> 
> ...



I dont have a heat pump system! Its only electric heat strip. I am in miami , fl. I used it last week when it got down to the 30's . It works but it doesn't have a nice hot airflow like in my dad's house or other peoples homes I have visited. But it does work to raise the temp up. I think the cfm should be put at 1468 cfm( Tap C on the comfort trek control board) as one person told me on another forum.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It doesn't list actual specs for it. but its no more then a .07" PD.

Since its only electric strip heat, you can drop it to 100 CFM and have a temp rise of 31 degrees. That heat kit is used in 1.5 ton units that only move 600 CFM, so no problem.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Whoa your saying the 10kw is for a 1.5ton unit that uses 600 cfm? The lowest cfm setting I can use is 1248cfm. I guess I will leave it at that. I will call york and see if they can give me any PD values. I will also use the .07 pd for this electric strip.

Lol- Here goes my thread off topic. Beenthere as I was looking inside the air handler and looking at the control board terminals. I saw the W1 and W2 terminals bridged with a small piece of tstat wire. And then I have another wire that is connected to the W2 terminal on the control board and that wire hooks up to my IAQ EIM-W1 terminal. Is that correct or I should remove the bridge and it should be 2 separate wires going like 

W1 from control board to W1 on IAQ EIM
W2 from control board to W2 on IAQ EIM

??


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Its seldom used in anything larger then a 2.5 ton.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

I dont know if you saw my edit of the post above about the terminals. Let me know what you think if that is correct or not.

Anyways thanks so much for your help. I'll keep you posted on my outcome!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Your wiring is correct.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

beenthere said:


> Your wiring is correct.



Ok cool, I will leave it alone then. hehe


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hey beenthere

Ok I got all the values down from ASPEN for the coil and Warran for the heating strip. I got a friction rate of 0.0384615.

( my ASP was ESP .5 - CPL .48 = 0.02)
(FR= 0.02 ASP x 100 / 52 TEL= 0.0384615)

I rounded it up to 0.04 . You think that sounds right?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

To have a ESP of .5", yes.

often. In order to keep duct size at a workable size for the homes constraints. You end up having to go to an ESP of .6, or .7". Or, add turning vanes to the return drop to reduce the PD of the 90 into the blower/return box. 

Vanes can reduce TEL of the drop by 60 foot plus. Same with the supply trunk attachment to the plenum.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

I had to google about the 'turning vanes' to understand what your saying. I have a open central return so, I cant use the vanes as I don't have an actually return box . ( I hope I understood your answer correctly about adding the vanes in the return) I like the idea your saying to put the vanes for the trunk lines where ever it makes turns. Turning vanes can be used in duct boards? 

So you thing I should redo my calculation and use a higher esp, like .6 or .7 as you have mentioned?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

They make vanes for ductboard.

Yes. Try using .6".


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ok cool

That give me a FR of .23 . Finally I can now size up my trunklines. loll

Thanks again Beenthere


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Before you use .23".

How did you come up with 52 as your TEL? That sounds too short.

The supply trunk attachment can be any where from 35 to over 100' itself. The register boots will be atleast 15, a take off or start collar atleast 15'(often 35'). So there would be a min of 70' right there, with no linear length included yet.

PS: Don't use a sheet metal ductulator for duct board.


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## Earnie (Jan 24, 2008)

Not sure if this will help but I used this program to do my heat loss/heat gain.

http://www.hvaccomputer.com/


Some interesting online calculators here:

http://efficientcomfort.net/Calculators.html


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

beenthere said:


> Before you use .23".
> 
> How did you come up with 52 as your TEL? That sounds too short.
> 
> ...



whoaaaaaa

Beenthere sorry I never saw your reply again. GOOD thing I havent done my ductwork yet. 

52 TEL is the length of just my trunklines that will be attached to the main plenum. Did I just miss something???????????? Ok Your saying there will be TEL for each supply run? But I thought we don't count the TEL for the length of the flex runs? I am going to read the manual d book again. Can you tell me what will be counted in the TEL? 

I happen to come back to diychatroom because I wanted to ask you if I want to add a 4" media air cleaner , what would it require coming from my current 1" 20x20 filter setup. I was thinking I would have to move up the air handler but that will require disconnecting the linesets and electrical connection which I cant do and I will have to hire a hvac company to do it for me. But I am trying to find out how will it be installed so I can instruct the AC company to do it for me. Would something like the Honeywell Model F200E1011 Media Air Cleaner which is a 20x20x4. But it says max 1200 cfm. I will need 1600 cfm . Any other air cleaner you can suggest. 

I am going to read the manual d , to see what I am missing for the TEL again. I had a feeling something was wrong in the equation I did. Especially since I got a .23 FR. Which wasnt even on the ductulator's chart.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Honeywell has larger media air filters, that are rated for 1600, and ones that are rated at 2000 CFM.

Easy way to do a manual D calc. is to only separate your devices. A/C coil, air filter, supply register, return register, dampers, etc.

Then subtract that form the air handlers ESP to get your ASP.

Then use the TEL from the manual for all of your fittings, such as take offs, register boots, etc(reducing transitions have a TEL of 5 foot on 18" and 2 foot long transitions). And figure out your longest supply run, and your longest return run. Then do the math, and get your FR. Only need your longest of the supply and of the return added together.

TEL's of high 200's and mid 300's are not unusual.


You should have many diagrams of different fittings in the manual. All with a EL.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The media air filter, can be installed in the return drop duct work. Doesn't have to be fastened to the unit.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

beenthere said:


> The media air filter, can be installed in the return drop duct work. Doesn't have to be fastened to the unit.



Return drop duct work. If I have a open centered return will I then be required to install it under the air handler? Check pic of air handler.

I only have supply runs as I don't have any return ductwork. I only take the length of the longest supply flex run , correct? And also take all the remanding takeoff collar's and register box's and calculate their TEL. I am having trouble finding the fittings in the manual d but I will keep looking at it. It seems like most of it is sheet metal fittings.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes, in your application, the air filter would be installed under the air handler.

And you would just use the PD of the air filter to get your ASP.

Yes, mostly metal fittings in manual D.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Beenthere

I started forming the TEL again. But i am a bit troubled. I have 15 drop register boxes..is the EL matters on what size the box is or what size collar is hooked up to it? Currently I used the value of 35...so 35x15=525 tel. I have sizes from 10"- 4" boxes . Another thing the take off collars that are coming off the trunklines I cant find a value for that either in the manual d....should I use 15 el also for each take off?

Let me know what u think. I am goin to try to google this information also.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The size of the box doesn't matter. And you only use the restriction of 1 box. Since your trying to find the TEL of the single longest run.

use 35 for your take off also.

So it would be 35 for the ceiling box, and 35 for the take off, equaling 70 without any pipe yet.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

LOLLL

Imagine I used 525 tel. LOLLL

Ok so I use the longest run including takeoff collar + flex duct+ register box. 

ok ill keep u posted on my results.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You are not the first person that added all the takeoffs and boots together, and came up with a very high TEL.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

LoLLLL

Now thinking about it. My longest run consist of a 6" flex duct that runs and then connects to a reducer that splits from a 6" into two 4" flex runs. I found the EL for the reducer splitter at 70. But do I count both of the 4" flex runs including the ceiling boxes. Or I only use one of the 4" flex run on the split ?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Just 1 of the 4" runs. The one that would/will be the TEL run. may have to do each separately to see which one is longer.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

:thumbsup:.

Ok cool, I understand. Thanks so much for all your help Beenthere. I will keep u posted on my results.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hey beenthere

here's the break down of my FR.

asp .12 x 100 / 252 tel = 0.04761905 

so i rounded it up to 0.05 fr. I havent added the media filter into the equation as I havent decided yet if I am goin to add it yet. For the media filter can the air 
handler sit directly on top of the media filter box in which then the media filter box is sitting now on the stand or it usually goes under the metal stand the air handler is sitting on!
If it goes under the stand will I be require to move up the stand so i get more clearance from the floor up for the return.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The air handler can sit directly on top of the media filter housing/box.

Your FR sounds much better now.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

awesome. Ya I am so happy I finally found the Friction rate. I'll post pics of my install later.:thumbup:

thanks again beenthere


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Beenthere 

One more question. When I choose a media filter box. I should pick the size of the bottom return of the air handler? I got a 20x20 opening. So I should get a media filter box that is sized 20x20?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Media filter should be sized for the CFM. If the filter box is the size of the opening. It works out good. if it isn't, then another install method needs to be used. Sometimes a transition from the filter box to the air handler.


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## kilosos2 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ok, cool.

Ya, I am going to try to find a media box that will directly fit under the air handler. That way I won't require a transition. Thanks again


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