# Nail pops - best way to fix



## Mark Harvey (Apr 20, 2009)

*Popping nails*

I would suggest not removing the nails as you may do more damage that is necessary. Put a screw near the existing nail (within a few inches) and take your punch to the nail. When both are recessed, do the patch up work and cover them both. The screw should hold the drywall from any movement and the nail ... is just there.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks, so don't worry about putting a screw to hold the nail head?

Would you tape the nail head and mud or just mud over the fasteners?

I was going to put the screw 1.5-2" away from the nail.


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## scottktmrider (Jul 1, 2012)

Put screw or screws next to the nail pop, than take a punch and drive the nail through, check the drywall around it to make sure its solid.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks.

When you say put the screws next to the nail pop I assume you mean a couple inches away? As opposed to on the nail head to hold the nail in.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've read varying articles on the length of the drywall screw to use. 

It seems that for walls the consensus is to use 1 1/4" screws. 

However for the drywall ceilings some seem to recommend 1 5/8" while others use 1 1/4".

Does it matter?


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## Mark Harvey (Apr 20, 2009)

*drywall*

The lenght of the drywall screws are a major factor unless they are too short. If you are concerned, go with 1 1/2". Just mud over the srew and nail heads, no need to tape them.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I agree, mud over them after setting farther in drywall board (or remove the ceiling ones- close to wall- as they are not needed and show due to the seasonal wood movement).http://bestdrywall.com/files/ReduceCallbacks.pdf

Best to remove, but if setting deeper, add some crumpled paper on the head before muding flush. This will help isolate them from the new mud when the wood (and fastener- even new one) moves the next time... http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/wood_shrink.htm

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_7_sec002_par010.htm

Gary


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I read that you can remove the nails within 16" from a wall if there's an attic above the ceiling. This ceiling has another floor above (not the attic) so I wasn't sure if I could just remove them.

Never heard of adding crumbled paper before. Would this be drywall paper (tape)? Is this just a way to mark them if they ever come back out to tell its the original nail?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gary in WA said:


> I agree, mud over them after setting farther in drywall board (or remove the ceiling ones- close to wall- as they are not needed and show due to the seasonal wood movement).http://bestdrywall.com/files/ReduceCallbacks.pdf
> 
> Best to remove, but if setting deeper, add some crumpled paper on the head before muding flush. This will help isolate them from the new mud when the wood (and fastener- even new one) moves the next time... http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new%20construction/wood_shrink.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks for the articles. Based on the codes article I should be using 1 1/4" screws for both the ceiling and walls since I have 1/2" drywall. They also say to position the ceiling screws at least 7" away from the wall. 

_When I put the replacement ceiling screws in should I still follow that advice and keep it 7" from the wall? _

I imagine I should. I'm not sure if it's needed to remove the nails by the edge of the wall, I'm hoping I can pound them in using a nail set and then the screw 7" away from the wall will hold everything in place.


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## scottktmrider (Jul 1, 2012)

cjaustin81 said:


> Thanks for the articles. Based on the codes article I should be using 1 1/4" screws for both the ceiling and walls since I have 1/2" drywall. They also say to position the ceiling screws at least 7" away from the wall.
> 
> _When I put the replacement ceiling screws in should I still follow that advice and keep it 7" from the wall? _
> 
> I imagine I should. I'm not sure if it's needed to remove the nails by the edge of the wall, I'm hoping I can pound them in using a nail set and then the screw 7" away from the wall will hold everything in place.


No, screw it tight. I've been hanging drywall for 20 years and years back they tried to do it where you should let the corner float, it didn't take long for that idea to go by the way side. drywall needs to be screwed tight,especially since your house isn't brand new. the reason I told you in my previous post to drive the nail threw was so you wouldn't make a big crater by pulling it out, if you can pull it out with little damage than do it if not drive it in


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

scottktmrider said:


> cjaustin81 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the articles. Based on the codes article I should be using 1 1/4" screws for both the ceiling and walls since I have 1/2" drywall. They also say to position the ceiling screws at least 7" away from the wall.
> ...


How far from the nail pop would you position the replacement screw? 

I can only put it on the one side of the screw since it's right up to the wall.


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## Mark Harvey (Apr 20, 2009)

*drywall ceiling*

After all the advice you're still asking the questions. Common sense should prevail. The nails are not a major issue, just punch them in. Rerinforce the drywall with screws near the nails, actual measurement if inches or fractions doesn't matter. Distance from the wall for the screws , you read seven inches, ... this is a guideline not a code. The entire concept is to secure the ceiling to the trusses above. Over-kill (nails and screws) do not pose a problem. Just do it.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"Never heard of adding crumbled paper before. Would this be drywall paper (tape)? Is this just a way to mark them if they ever come back out to tell its the original nail?"------------------ Or use some fiberglass batt, a little piece to give the new mud some backing to keep it from contact with the old nail head. This isolates it as you have movement there (presume) and any new nail/screw will do the same if the wood joist moves from the wall in the future.

The manufacturer sets code on wallboard; " 4.8.2
Fasteners at gypsum panel product edges or ends shall
be located not less than 3/8 in. (10 mm) from the edge or end.
Except as specified in Section 4.9, fasteners at edges or ends
in a perpendicular application shall be located not more than
1 in. (25 mm) from the edge or end. Perimeter attachment into
partition top and bottom (sole) plates is *neither required nor*
*recommended *except where fire ratings, structural perfor-
mance requirements, or other special conditions require such
attachment." And; "

4.9.1
The floating angle method of application shall be per-
mitted to be used to minimize the effects of truss uplift and the
possibility of fastener popping in areas adjacent to wall and
ceiling intersections. This method is applicable where either
single nailing, double nailing, or screw attachment to wood
framing is used. (See Figures 3, 4, and 5)
4.9.2
Ceiling-Wall Intersections. (See Figures 3 and 4)
4.9.2.1
The first fastener into each ceiling framing member,
framed either perpendicular or parallel to the wall, shall be
located not more than 7 in. (178 mm) out from the intersec-
tion for single nailing and not more than 12 in. (305 mm) for
either double nailing or screw application.
4.9.2.2
The gypsum panel products on the wall shall be
applied to provide firm support for the floated edges of the
gypsum panel product on the ceiling. The uppermost fastener
into each stud shall be located not more than 8 in. (203 mm)
down from the ceiling intersection for single nailing and not
more than 12 in. (305 mm) for either double nailing or screw
application. (See Figures 3 and 4)" From; http://www.lafarge-na.com/GA-216-07_English.pdf

The same illustrations are used in that link, where these are from, also; pp. 352, 353; http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...medies-and-preventive-measures-can-en-pdf.pdf

When under trusses, you can get a lot more movement; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-023-wood-is-good-but-strange/

Gary


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Mark Harvey said:


> After all the advice you're still asking the questions. Common sense should prevail. The nails are not a major issue, just punch them in. Rerinforce the drywall with screws near the nails, actual measurement if inches or fractions doesn't matter. Distance from the wall for the screws , you read seven inches, ... this is a guideline not a code. The entire concept is to secure the ceiling to the trusses above. Over-kill (nails and screws) do not pose a problem. Just do it.


If it's common sense then why do all the articles (such as the one listed below) say to keep the screw 7-11" away from the wall when mounting fasteners to the ceiling to prevent nail pops?

I want to make sure I fix the nail pops correctly so that they don't return. If I put the replacement screw close to the existing nail and it's still too close to the wall it would appear it would return faster than if I kept it further away.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gary in WA said:


> "Never heard of adding crumbled paper before. Would this be drywall paper (tape)? Is this just a way to mark them if they ever come back out to tell its the original nail?"------------------ Or use some fiberglass batt, a little piece to give the new mud some backing to keep it from contact with the old nail head. This isolates it as you have movement there (presume) and any new nail/screw will do the same if the wood joist moves from the wall in the future.
> 
> The manufacturer sets code on wallboard; " 4.8.2
> Fasteners at gypsum panel product edges or ends shall
> ...


These articles really hammer home the idea of keeping the screws 11" away from the wall (when mounting to the ceiling) and below the ceiling (for walls). 

When I replace these screws I'm trying to figure out if I should still follow those guides (and keep the screws 7-11" away from the wall/ceiling) or should I just mount the screw 1.5" away from the existing nail now (since all the drywall has been mounted). 

I guess the real question is do those rules need to be followed when fixing nail pops vs new construction.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

When I'm repairing nail pops...
9 out of 10 times the ceiling (drywall) has dropped, just screwing in a screw will be temporary...Pushing up on the drywall in different places will let you know if this has happened. If so..
Using several 2x4x8, one laying across the ceiling, one laying across the floor, and four in the upright position cut to length. Wedge the uprights slightly to lift the sheets back into place.
Put a screw on each side of the nail pop, then hammer the nail completely in. Then screw the remainder of the sheet in a normal fashion, this normally will yield more pops.
That's why just screwing alone is only temporary.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ron45 said:


> When I'm repairing nail pops...
> 9 out of 10 times the ceiling (drywall) has dropped, just screwing in a screw will be temporary...Pushing up on the drywall in different places will let you know if this has happened. If so..
> Using several 2x4x8, one laying across the ceiling, one laying across the floor, and four in the upright position cut to length. Wedge the uprights slightly to lift the sheets back into place.
> Put a screw on each side of the nail pop, then hammer the nail completely in. Then screw the remainder of the sheet in a normal fashion, this normally will yield more pops.
> That's why just screwing alone is only temporary.


The nail pops seem to be mostly limited to the perimeter areas of the rooms. I did notice one screw (must have been screwed in after initial construction) that was "sunken" in instead of popped and after I removed the mud over it I saw a spot that may have dropped but I don't really have any pops in the field. Just around the edges. 

I see what you mean about creating a brace and using that to hold up the drywall as you screw in more fasteners. I'm hoping that I don't have to do all of that. The ceiling appears decently solid, although it does seem slightly dropped but I noticed they used some metal hangers in one spot that I opened the ceiling up in which may attribute to it.

The nail pops are so close to the wall that I will only be able to put a screw on one side of it (away from the wall).


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Put the new screws in and check it in 6 months, if it popped again, remove it. The joists may be moving from loads, seasonal changes, etc. as they are located similarly. Try it and see, let us know, we will be waiting....lol.

Gary


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

OK late to the party but I would remove the nails. Movement in the wood (expansion and contraction) is what caused them to pop in the first place. Driving them in a little farther won't keep them from popping again. This is why we stopped using nails many years ago.

Another possible reason for the nail pops is 1/2" drywall on the ceiling if it has 24" centers. It tends to sag and then puts pressure on the nails.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> OK late to the party but I would remove the nails. Movement in the wood (expansion and contraction) is what caused them to pop in the first place. Driving them in a little farther won't keep them from popping again. This is why we stopped using nails many years ago.
> 
> Another possible reason for the nail pops is 1/2" drywall on the ceiling if it has 24" centers. It tends to sag and then puts pressure on the nails.


I'd love to remove the nails but I was concerned with damaging the drywall in the process. I didn't run my AC much if at all most days last summer so the house got very humid (~70%). That could have caused a lot of the movement I'm seeing. I won't be making that mistake this summer. 

Are there any tricks to removing the nails without doing much damage? The only thing I could think of was using a needle nose pliers and trying to finesse it out. 

If I did remove the nails, how far from the edge of the wall would you mount the replacement screws?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

In that case then I would as suggested earlier drive them all the way in. We used to be taught to drive a screw in right beside the nail so the head of the screw would catch the edge of the nail head and keep it from backing out again. Don't know if they are still doing this or not.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've been fixing my nail pops but I want to double check that I'm recessing my screws into the drywall properly. I'm using a DeWalt recessing bit. 

Are these screws in too far or ok?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Way too deep, since you broke the face paper backing...http://www.gypsum.org/product-category/free-downloads/

Gary


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gary in WA said:


> Way too deep, since you broke the face paper backing...http://www.gypsum.org/product-category/free-downloads/
> 
> Gary


That's what I was worried about. I'm using a simpler so I didn't think it would allow it to be over screwed. 

I just put another screw in, how does this one look?


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

CJaustin81:

You're using a Dimpler, but you're pressing way too hard on it as evidinced by the circles around each screw, and that's why it's driving the screws in too deep. You want the trumpet head of the screw to pull the paper in somewhat so that the head of the screw is slightly receded into the drywall, not so that the face paper breaks or tears.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

The problem I seem to have is when I don't push in too hard then the screw sticks out. Maybe it's more of a finesse that I need. I have my drill turned up a bit too.

Is my last pic in too deep too?

I was practicing on a scrap piece without pushing in hard, how do these two look?



















I switched the drill from drive 2 to drive 1.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Quick question: I've been using a nail set to drive the nail into the Sheetrock, then putting a screw near the nail pop. 

After I drive the nail in I noticed there's still a tiny bump where the nail pop was. I drive the nails in pretty far, about halfway through the Sheetrock. 

Should I be pounding the nail in further to prevent these bumps or is that normal?

This pic shows the small bump closest to the wall. 









It doesn't look bad but you can feel it w your finger. I just want to make sure I'm repairing properly.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

The cure for this is a drywall hammer it has a convex (rounded protruding) head. When you drive the nail it will make a dimple that is then filled with the mud.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks, so for these bumps do I hit them w the hammer after I use the nail set? 

Or do you use the hammer to sink the nail and flatten the drywall at the same time?

Should I use the hammer in the spots like this that I already drove the nail further in?


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

CJaustin:

Those three drywall screws in your two pictures looked much better.

However, what you can also do is use a small 1/4 inch ratchet fitted with a 6 inch long extension bar and a 1/4 inch socket. This is the kind of tool you should be able to buy in any hardware store.

Put a #2 Phillips driver bit (or just a drywall screw driver bit, which I believe are just #2 Phillips driver bits) in the 1/4 inch socket, and you can push the driver bit into your drywall screw hard and turn the ratchet handle at the same time to drive your drywall screws in just a little deeper.

That way, you can use your Dimpler to get the drywall screws 95 percent of the way in, and then use your ratchet for the finishing touch where you are turning the drywall screws by hand so that you have very much better control over how far they go in.

Even if you know someone with a good collection of tools, they would probably have a 1/4 inch ratchet, extension and 1/4 inch drive socket you could borrow just to see how you like doing it this way instead.

I, too, have used a dimpler, and I subsequently purchased a drywall gun for all the drywalling I was doing. But, having a 1/4 inch ratchet fitted with an extension bar and turning a drywall screw driver bit will allow you much more precise control over how far you drive your screws in.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

CJaustin:

Here's what an "extension bar" looks like:










You want one of these between the 1/4 inch drive ratchet handle and the 1/4 inch drive socket that holds the drywall screw driver bit.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Great advice Nestor. I'm familiar w the 1/4" ratchet extensions from car work. I think I'm going to try this approach!


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I've just got this feeling you're going to be needing one of these quite regularly....

http://www.harborfreight.com/42-amp...iable-speed-reversible-screwdriver-69573.html


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> The cure for this is a drywall hammer it has a convex (rounded protruding) head. When you drive the nail it will make a dimple that is then filled with the mud.


For the nail pops (by the wall) that I fixed that still have a bump after using a nail set to drive them in, should I lightly hit the bump in the drywall w a drywall hammer?

Or is that asking for trouble?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've been using a nail set to really bang the nail pop into the stud, about 1/4" into the Sheetrock. Is that too much? How far in do you set the nails?

Also, I've been using spackle to cover the screw dimples and those 1/4" nail holes. For the nail holes should I be using joint compound instead?

I have a bunch to do so I wanted to make sure it's fine right.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

I wouldn't drive your nails in that far, but as long as you can fill the holes you leave, I don't see that driving them in that far would cause any problem.

Even the joint compound you put over them will prevent them from coming out again, so they don't need to be driven in very far.

Either joint compound or "spackle" will work on your ceiling and walls. (I'm really not sure what "spackle" is because I always use a powdered joint compound for everything I do. I've never had to look for or buy "Spackle" since joint compound can be used for everything spackle is used for and vice versa, or at least that's my understanding.)

My understanding is that Spackle shrinks less as it dries, but you still need to put on 2 or 3 coats to fill in the shrinkage with either product you use.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I wouldn't drive your nails in that far, but as long as you can fill the holes you leave, I don't see that driving them in that far would cause any problem.
> 
> Even the joint compound you put over them will prevent them from coming out again, so they don't need to be driven in very far.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've really been pounding the nails in (hoping they don't return) but I think I may be nailing them too far. 

Maybe I'll just do a couple taps to get them in just a little further before putting some joint compound on.

I read you want to drive the nails in using a nail set ~ 1/8". So maybe I'll shoot for that.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm still having trouble getting the perfect dimple w the DeWalt dimpler bits. My DeWalt 20v has two modes.. 450rpm and 1,500 rpm.

Which mode should I be using? And should I have the clutch turned up?

Here's a pic of some I practiced on


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Most of those don't look too bad.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Most of those don't look too bad.


Thanks, I wasn't sure if a properly dimpler screw showed any loose paper by the head.

Should my cordless drill be on the highest setting (1,500 rpm) when using these dimplers?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I need to repair a nail pop (1" diameter) from above my mantel. I got out all the loose gypsum and I kept as much tape in tact as I could.

I was just going to build the inside up w hot mud (several coats) and then apply mesh tape and joint compound to finish it off.

Is that the proper way to fix this? Or should I be using a patch kit and not building up the inside?

A lot of the videos show them just putting mesh tape over and then mudding. I would think you would want more support behind it though.


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