# Deep Well - Wiring Control Box and Pressure Switch



## Fix-It Chick

Hi, I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with this problem. I'm trying to wire a new control box and pressure switch into my system. The old one had been disconnected and so I can't use it as a template or even reuse the wires. 

Set Up (see attached diagram): 
Split phase 3/4 HP 3-wire pump - Black, White, Ground from the breaker box. Red, Yellow, Black from the pump (no ground). I wired the pump into the control box (R,Y,B), and lines 1 and 2 from the control box into the pressure switch load terminals. From there, I marretted Line 1 to White from the breakers, Line 2 to Black, completed the grounds, and got set to celebrate, but when I flicked the power on, nothing happened! I have a tester thingy that beeps when current is detected, and all lines and terminals are showing current. 

I don't understand... any ideas?


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## chris75

If you followed the diagram I don't see the problem...


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## scrapiron

Do you know if the pump was working before the old controls were removed?


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## Fix-It Chick

Ya, the pump works fine. As it is, it's bypassed the controls completely and is wired directly to the line from the breaker. The only thing is, I understand that's not good for either the pressure tank (new) or my electricity bill. I'm wondering if maybe I'm using the wrong gauge of wire or if maybe the pressure switch is hooped? It was kicking around the shed for a year or so. It's never been used, but maybe the settings are off? The control box is also new - maybe it's defective?


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## frenchelectrican

there are two thing what happend there :

1] bad pressure switch [ i did see that happend once a while ]

2] some pressure switch do have " low pressure kick out " to order to reset it you have to hold the bypass lever on for few seconds to get the pressure build up first to get above the min pressure setting [ typically over 20 PSI ] 

3] sometime get new pressure switch go bad from factory 

4] {kinda rare but true } one of the spring is out of line or calbearted that part i genrallly dont mess with the springs setting kinda tricky to expain how to readjust it without get other part of system screw up 

5] it possbile if the pressure switch is on the outside of the area that subject to frezzing tempture ?

those info will help a bit with it 

Merci, Marc


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## Fix-It Chick

Thanks. I guess I'll start with the easiest (and cheapest) first. When installed, temps were above freezing, so I don't think that's the problem, but winter hit yesterday (-15C yuk).The tank is full and pressure gauge reads 100%, so theoretically the pressure should already be above 20 PSI? I will try to find a bypass lever. Failing this, I will try replacing the pressure switch.... wish me luck.


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## Fix-It Chick

OK. I cleaned the contacts on the switch, tried holding the lever open (I assume you meant the lever that holds the contacts open), and I even replaced the pressure switch - nothing. I can hear humming in the control box, so I know there is power going to it, but it doesn't seem to be making it to the pump. Maybe a break in the wire? A defective control box? Any other ideas?


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## NateHanson

I think you want to hole the lever down so the contacts are closed. On my pressure switch, that lever is on the top of the switch once the cover is removed.


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## Fix-It Chick

When I first hook it up, the pressure in the tank is 100%. I flush a few times and run water so the pressure will drop and the pump will kick in, but it just drops to zero when the tank runs out. At this point, the contacts are closed (touching), which is why I held them open... I will check it when the pressure is high - maybe they are open then.


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## Fix-It Chick

BTW - There is an arch when the contacts open and close. This is normal, yes?


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## Fix-It Chick

Just curious... Could the pump itself be wired incorrectly? The original pump that we replaced did not have a ground and so the wires all matched up. If there was no ground from the house to the well and so they grounded to the yellow, could this affect the overall operation of the pump? Could this be an issue here? Thanks again (and in advance) for your help.


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## Fix-It Chick

OK, Here's where I'm at...


Fix-It Chick said:


> OK. I cleaned the contacts on the switch, the contacts are already in the closed position, and I even replaced the pressure switch - nothing. I can hear humming in the control box, so I know there is power going to it, but it doesn't seem to be making it to the pump. Maybe a break in the wire? A defective control box? Any other ideas?


I did all that AND I returned the control box and replaced it with a new one (just in case it was defective). Same thing... I can hear humming in the control box, but the pump does not come on even when the pressure is at 0 and contacts on the switch are closed. 

I'm assuming the wires from the panel to the switch are good as are the pump wires, because when I wire direct to the panel (B-B, R-W, Y-G) the pump runs fine, it just doesn't shut off when pressure is reached. So, I replaced the wires from the pressure switch to the control box, in case there was a break somewhere in that line. 

Still nothing.

I checked the wiring under the well cap (R-R, B-B, Y-Y) and called the guy who installed the pump to find out what he did with the ground. He said that he grounded the pump to the well casing.

My next thought is that I should check the wiring at the breaker? How should it be set up for this type of pump? 

Below is a diagram of the current set up. I seem to recall that if we set up the breakers next to each other across poles (i.e. 17/15), the pump would not run if direct wired, it had to have that space in between...

I really hope someone out there has some more ideas - this $300/mo electricity bill is killing me.

Thanks


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## Stubbie

This would appear to be your problem. You have the breakers on the same leg. One of them needs to be on a opposite leg from the other.. Move one of the breakers either up one position or down one position. This will give you the 240 volts needed for the pump motor. Use a voltage tester to verify this. If you put a probe to each breaker lug ( measure between them) you should read 240 volts or close. If they are on the same leg you will get no voltage.

As an added note if you use a double pole breaker (you should) then this opposite leg deal is taken care of for you.

In your drawing looking at the rows in vertical terms each pair of odd numbers... ie.... (1 and 3).....(5 and 7).....(21 and 23) are opposite legs to each other. Same deal on the other side with the even numbers. So position 15 and 19 are the same leg... you don't want this. I would go get a double pole breaker (not a tandem breaker) and use it then your worries are over.


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## Fix-It Chick

OK- I'm ready to start probing the breaker panel. I think I'll flick the MAIN power switch first... If you don't hear back from me in, say, 2 hrs... *call 911!*


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## NateHanson

You won't get any voltage if you flick the Main breaker first. 

You'll need to measure the voltage with the main on. However, you don't need to do that. Go buy a double-pole breaker (what size wire is used for the pump circuit? if 12, get a 20A breaker). Then, with the main off, move the breaker in space 17 to space 19, wire both pump wires to the double pole breaker, and install that in space 15 and 17. Then turn on that main and you're good to go. 

When you wired the pump directly to the panel, where did you hook it up?


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## Stubbie

You sounded as if you had been in a main panel or sub-panel before so if your not familiar with what is going on in there better to have some help from someone that does.


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## Fix-It Chick

Hey, I'm still here! That's because I haven't done anything yet and now it's dark, so it'll have to wait for another day. 

Wired directly to the panel:
Spiced into a receptacle in the crawlspace - from the panel, B,W,G. Wired B-B, R-W, Y-G with the breaker configuration shown in the diagram above.

The panel used to be in the bathroom. We turned it around, cut an access in the next room, and put up a new wall in the bathroom. Wires on the panel go from R,B,W,G to B,W,G where the pump hooks up in the crawlspace, so whatever splicing has been done there is now buried inside the wall, but the guy that hooked it all up says he followed what was already in place for the pump.


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## Fix-It Chick

Stubbie said:


> You sounded as if you had been in a main panel or sub-panel before so if your not familiar with what is going on in there better to have some help from someone that does.


No - have only ever had one panel, but did replace it with a larger one at the same time as the pump so everything got rewired at that time.


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## NateHanson

It sounds like you spliced the pump into another 110V circuit, and it worked. 

So is this pump a 220V pump, or 110V? I think you should determine that before hooking it up to the 220V double pole breaker.


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## Andy in ATL

Anyone call 911?


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## Fix-It Chick

ARRRGGGG!!!!
I'm still here, but I'm starting to wish I wasn't. 

I moved the breaker up a space - nothing. Still says power is going to everything, but I don't have a voltage meter to test how much. So...

I'm stumped. I did notice, however, that whenever I flick off the top breaker (#15/Black), there is a spark on the bar where the White is attached... doesn't happen with any other breakers, including the other pump breaker. ??

Below is a diagram of the control box wiring from the Myers installation guide for my pump.

Next step... tear the wall out and see what's going on back there?Quote: "Wires on the panel go from R,B,W,G to B,W,G where the pump hooks up in the crawlspace, so whatever splicing has been done there is now buried inside the wall"​OR... I could find a plumber or an electrician who will work for beer - shouldn't be too hard (haha).:laughing:


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## Pipes

Fix-It Chick said:


> OR... I could find a plumber or an electrician who will work for beer - shouldn't be too hard (haha).:laughing:


I was going to try to help you with a simple test, but I found that remark a bit insulting. Good %^&* luck.


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## Andy in ATL

Pipes said:


> I was going to try to help you with a simple test, but I found that remark a bit insulting. Good %^&* luck.


WTF? I know I'm insulted by the rude reference to the "insult". Do some people have no sense of humour? I got the joke chicky (I called you chicky, were you filled with rage and horror?). Of course you weren't. I used a play on words from your forum name that COULD be construed as sexist, but obviously was a light attempt at humour. I assume fix-it-chick, that you could see that this was a ploy to illicit a smile, no matter how small. Humour, see it, Pipes? again i say...WTF?

Andy


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## Fix-It Chick

I apologize if my attempt at humor insulted anyone else - actually, the dig was aimed at myself; it's like when your buddies come and help you move because you can't afford to pay a moving company. Do you pay them in cash, or do you buy them pizza and beer?

BTW - I was going to say "will work for _favors_," but I didn't want to start down that road.

Thanks Andy - for calling me a "chicky," but actually, I'm just a tough old bird.

Please, Pipes, if you have something to share, I would love to hear it.


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## Andy in ATL

Ya reckon that guy was kidding?


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## Fix-It Chick

Andy in ATL said:


> Ya reckon that guy was kidding?


 That may be - maybe he didn't have anything at all - but why tempt fate?

Oops. I think I just did...


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## Andy in ATL

Fix-It Chick said:


> That may be - maybe he didn't have anything at all - but why tempt fate?
> 
> Oops. I think I just did...


That right there is funny!:thumbup: 

Andy


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## Fix-It Chick

But seriously, getting back on topic, I want to thank all those who have tried to help... anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks


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## Fix-It Chick

:jester:After all this, I think I may have found the problem. Here it is... The pump is 12 gauge wire, but the breaker is 14. Also, on closer inspection, the flash when the breaker is switched is not coming from the neutral (as I thought), it is coming from the breaker. Alas, my worst-case scenario has come true. I have to pull out the whole breaker panel and fish a 12 gauge wire through to the crawlspace. I can't tie onto the wires that are already there and pull it through, because they are spliced into a junction box somewhere inside the wall...

If this ABSOLUTELY is not the problem, please stop me before I continue...


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## scrapiron

It seems that the only part of your system in question now is the wiring from the pressure switch to the breaker. If it was my house I would run a a new 12/2 wg from the pressure switch to a 20 amp 2 pole breaker. No need to remove panel, just cut out enough sheetrock to gain access to run the new wire. You will need to install some type of disconnect near the pressure tank/switch.


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## Roy

Did you get your wiring issue fixed?


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## Fix-It Chick

Still working on it. It's been too cold (-30) to be crawling around down there + I've been busy at work... Today is my day. I changed all the wiring, but now, for some reason, I have no power from the switch to the control box! I will have to go down and check my connections, but FIRST I must watch Days of Our Lives... lol

Later that day...

OK - I checked all connections. Power going into the switch - none coming out. ?? I wired it like the original diagram (previous attachment) EXCEPT I now have a neutral (W) coming from the panel. I grounded this to the pressure switch box along with the ground (G) wire. Coming from the pressure switch, I ground W and G to the control box, hooked R and B into line 1 and 2, and hooked up the R,Y,B as before. Everything is now 12 gauge.

WTF? I'm just about ready to brush the cobwebs off my wallet...


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## Fix-It Chick

:jester:​Well well well. I'm back. As you know, I tried absolutely everything I could think of, much to my frustration. It finally got too cold to work down there, so I left things the way they were... just kept flicking off the breakers whenever I remembered. Finally got a warm weekend, so here's what happened... 

_*I'm sure you'll all get a kick out of this*__. _

Pulled the pump to check the wiring and guess what? The 3/4 HP 3-wire pump that they sold me (so the receipt says anyway) is actually a 1/2 HP 2-wire pump! * WTF!?* 

I didn't check it against the receipt, I just gave it to the guys to install. They didn't know 2-wire from _22_-wire... they just hooked it up. There was some confusion as to where to connect the green wire from the pump, because as I said, the original installation was old - no ground - and only R,B,Y were running from the well to the house. So, they told me they had grounded it inside the well... 

I have been trying to hook a 2-wire pump to a control box and wondering WHY IT WON'T WORK! :wallbash: 

So, as I figure it, there are 2 lessons to be learned here:
Double check your merchandise against the receipt.
If you're not sure, double check new equipment against old.
*Arrrggg!* 

Anyway, just thought you might get a laugh out of that. Thank you all for your suggestions, which I'm sure would have fixed the problem, IF I had the right pump.:laughing:​

​


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## haulinhp

Does anyone know what a ''Null Line'' would be on the control box?


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## [email protected]

Can a 4 wire pump be wired directly to a pressure switch without using a control box?


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## lenaitch

[email protected] said:


> Can a 4 wire pump be wired directly to a pressure switch without using a control box?


Not a 'motor guy' but not that I am aware of. The control box contains the start and run capacitors as well as a relay triggered by the pressure switch (along with some other bits for a motor designed to live in water). If the motor current had to run through the pressure switch it wouldn't last very long.


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