# HARBOR FRIEGHT TOOLS - The "Quality" Issue



## joecaption

Everyone of the three differant power tools I've bought there were loud, vibrated, chucks would not hold tight. All where in the trash within in a year.
The routers collet holder was usless, my hands vibrated for a 1/2 hour after using it. The hammer drill broke the same day I bought it.
I replaced it with a Porta Cable, what a huge differance.
The Bosch Bull dog Hammer drill I bought is still going strong 5 years later.
A tool is not cheap if it will not do the job, can not get parts for it or it just out right fails.


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## bbo

typically the harbor freight stuff I get now would only be disposable or single use stuff. or thinkgs that are not likely to break due to stress. 

I avoid their cordless power tools as I had bad luck with them in the past. no power, battery short life, etc.
I do have a corded angle grinder I bought for 10$, that thing has lasted a long time through some tough use.
I will buy the nitrile or vinyl gloves for uses like changing oil, painting, working on messy projects.
If I need an odd sized socket or weird tool or tool set, I'll get it there. i.e. brake piston compressor tool set has paid for itself.
I've had a few torque wrenches get the head twisted off well before torquing properly, next torque wrenches I but will be the $$ ones elsewhere.

I have a sliding compound mitre saw I bought from there. It does the job, just not as precise as a more reputable name would be.

my budget does dictate what brand I buy. lately I've been opting for searching online for better name brands for just a tad more $.


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## woodworkbykirk

i invest a lot of money into my tools.. as i need them to earn a living working as a proffesional in the renovation and new construction game.. this being said i cant afford to buy cheap tools.. there is far too much downtime and aggrevation using cheap tools that cant be relied on to do a job. there are specific tools i go to for different tasks that occur regularly so i buy pro grade tools such as bosch and makita.. 

now if theres something im just playing around with in the shop on my own time and requires some new tool that i dont already own i will buy a cheap version just to see if it will do the task. if the task becomes a regular thing i will go out and buy the pro grade version of it


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## Mort

I had a HF circular saw that, after about a year of VERY occasional use, started smoking out the motor area when in use. I have an orbital buffer I've used once, can't remember how we'll it works. Also have a hi-speed buffer that shakes me apart whenever I use it. There are better alternatives for not much more money, and they'd be worth every penny, even to the hobbyist.


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## CaptainMarvel

Not to discount ANYTHING any have said or insight/advice offered thus far, but (ironically) someone just brought the following article to my attention ...

Popular Hot Rodding Harbor Freight Article

A very informative article - and one I had not yet seen. 

An except from that very article ... seems to corroborate what was conveyed to me from my friend:



> I learned something today that I have to let you in on. Harbor Freight Tools isn’t “just” an importer of cheap, off-shore tools for guys down on bucks. While Harbor Freight Tools could certainly motor on through life as the leader in Chinese-built tools, this California-based company has a surprising mission statement: they want to be a quality leader while maintaining the really low prices they’ve become famous for. Yeah, that’s a statement you might expect, and we’d brush it off as pure hype if we hadn’t visited Harbor Freight’s Quality Assurance Lab in Calabasas, CA for a few hours today. Harbor Freight has built a state-of-the-art testing facility where they test both their own products (future and current) side-by-side with competitive products. And by competitive, I mean segment-leading products by name-brand manufacturers, not discount store private-label products.
> 
> As I toured Harbor Freight’s modern and spacious facility and watched various products being torqued, hammered, pounded, sprayed, immersed, squashed, smashed, radiated, and generally tortured, it dawned on me that Harbor Freight Tools were not only “adequate,” but even preferable.
> 
> All the testing at Harbor Freight’s Quality Assurance Lab is done for a reason. As a global-sourcing importer, the only way HFT can maintain and improve quality is to make the off-shore factories accountable for quality. The constant barrage of testing at HFT’s Calabasas lab gives their inventory buyers and executives the ammunition they need to enforce and improve quality on an on-going basis, while at the same time conducting comparative testing on benchmark products by makers like Snap-On, Bosch, Chicago Pneumatic, Honda, Warn, Binks, Ingersol Rand, Milwaukee, and Craftsman. The US General tool cart was only one of dozens of products I got to sample side-by-side with benchmark brand-name products, and the quality/price comparisons on those were equally astounding.




That article was posted in May 2011. The response from my friend's boyfriend - referenced in the initial post - was from this past Monday (Dec 10, 2012). Do you think it's possible that Harbor Freight has stepped up quality control over the last couple of years?

I will say this ... the "new model" 12" Compound Sliding Miter Saw (apparently, model 69684) did look like there were several "detail" improvements over the previous model - as I looked at them both in person at my local HF store ... such as (as I mentioned previously) the saw motor now situated _behind_ the saw blade casing, as opposed to being mounted on the right side - thus an improvement (insofar as I can tell) allowing for less potential motor-to-workpiece interference. Also, the laser guide on the "new" model looks much improved from how it was situated/mounted on the previous model. Lastly, the side extensions look to have been improved as well ... as is the miter base itself (with identified detents at various miter positions (whereas the "previous" model did not appear to include any detents at all).


Again, please do not interpret my further response here as somehow arguing or debating against the thoughts, comments and insight provided thus far. I guess I've always been an over zealous "due diligence" kind of guy when it comes to researching items/issues of interest before I invest in something.


Thank you for being patient and tolerant of me thus far.


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## jeffsw6

HF power tools have a 90 day warranty. That's it for me. If a company can't even stand behind their tools for one year, I'm not buying it. I don't know why anyone buys their junk.

It's not just the power tools. It's the whole way they run their business. The employees at the HF here are not knowledgeable about tools. They have basically low-wage cashiers and usually no one in the store who is really familiar with their products. It's not like they have much selection anyway, but go to Home Depot or Lowes and ask for help choosing a saw and you will end up talking to someone who both cares and has knowledge of the products they sell.

Look at their tool boxes. They don't even sell a nice tool box. No ball bearing slides and cheap thin metal. I am a DIY guy and it's not like I need SnapOn or MAC tool chests, but at least Kobalt, Husky, Craftsman, etc. are durable enough to last a long time.

If you want an inexpensive tool, there are PLENTY of medium-grade choices. Not at HF, though.

My $0.02.


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## jeffsw6

CaptainMarvel said:


> A very informative article - and one I had not yet seen.


That is a magazine supported by advertisers. It is not professional journalism.

I can't believe they specifically mention the U.S. GENERAL tool storage products as an exemplary product. They are junk. You don't have to take my word for it. Go to HF and buy one. I went there to check one out when there was a coupon in the paper one week. When I saw the thing I turned right around and left the store.

Saying the U.S. GENERAL tool storage products are in any way comparable to SnapOn is flat-out idiotic. I'm sure you probably haven't actually looked at them carefully or actually pulled a drawer out at the store so it's understandable that you would re-post that, but seriously, go look at one. It will change your mind.

Comparing their air compressors and air tools to Ingersol-Rand is crazy, too. That "Central Pneumatic" garbage doesn't even compare to Husky or Kobalt. Look at the reviews on Harbor Freight's own web site! Review after review of "it's good for the price" or "mine burned up after not much use" or "didn't hold air right out of the box."

HF compared to Bosch? Again, that is insane.

If you ask a Husky rep or a Home Depot salesman if their tool chests are as good as SnapOn, they are not going to exaggerate. They'll tell you, SnapOn is very expensive and it is intended for professionals who are using their tool chest daily to earn a living. Husky chests are pretty good for the money but they are like $400 for 41" chests, which would cost you THOUSANDS from SnapOn.

HD or Lowes is not afraid to lose a tool storage sale to SnapOn. I am sure HD would prefer HF tools didn't sell cheaper competing tool storage products, but HF is not even on SnapOn's radar. To say otherwise is just foolish, plain and simple.

No actual journalist would ever write the opinion in that magazine article. Doing pieces like that destroys a journalist's credibility. It would be like going to McDonald's and taking a look around the kitchen, and declaring that McDonald's makes hamburgers that are just as good as the best restaurants in the world, without even tasting a Big Mac or visiting another restaurant. Then run that article in an issue of your paper with a full-page McDonald's ad on the back.


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## toolaholic

I like there Pittsburgh pro ratchets. They have rarchets not readily available at lowes. Home Depot or sears. I have the double flex ( head and a joint in the body) 3/8 ratchet. Bought two and turned one into a stubby flex head 3/8. When they get them in stock, I want the 1/2 drive ratchet with indexing head.


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## oh'mike

I've always thought the few tools I have bought there were good value for the money---

I picked up a 4" diamond cutting circular saw for cutting durrock---that lasted for years before the cord wore out ---

I have several of their small angle grinders---only killed one---at $15 each I am okay with that.

I have one of their multi-tools--also a good value-----tough useful tool for $40--

I need a top quality tool for most tasks---my compressors and drills---miter saws and table saws--all top brands---but to try out some new gadget like the multi tool? Harbor freight for me--


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## retired guy 60

I have a 4 1/2 inch HF angle grinder that has held up but for the most part you get what you pay for. Some HF tools are meant for very light use and the purchaser only wants them for one job and is not thinking of future repeated use. The economy is not in great shape and people are trying to stretch their dollars. One way to do this is to buy cheap tools even though in the long run it may turn out to be false economy. If it is all you can afford it is probably better than nothing. HF has created a great niche for itself and my local store is doing a thriving business.
I do have an all plastic rolling tool cart that I highly recommend so HF products are not all bad. You have to use good judgement when shopping there.


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## itguy08

jeffsw6 said:


> .
> 
> I can't believe they specifically mention the U.S. GENERAL tool storage products as an exemplary product. They are junk. You don't have to take my word for it. Go to HF and buy one. I went there to check one out when there was a coupon in the paper one week. When I saw the thing I turned right around and left the store.
> 
> Saying the U.S. GENERAL tool storage products are in any way comparable to SnapOn is flat-out idiotic. I'm sure you probably haven't actually looked at them carefully or actually pulled a drawer out at the store so it's understandable that you would re-post that, but seriously, go look at one. It will change your mind.


Do you have a SnapOn Bias or something? What you write about the HF chests is not totally accurate. It's well known that the 44" US General boxes are of great quality and almost as good as a SnapOn for a fraction of the price. Good high quality steel and ball bearing drawers. At 1/10th the price ($500 vs $5000 for SnapOn), I could buy 10 of the US Generals and still be out ahead. It's not me - read up on Garage Journal and there ar many that love the bigger HF chests.

I'm talking about this series:
http://www.harborfreight.com/roller-cabinet-44-13-drawer-gloss-red-industrial-uality-68784.html

Heck, when I upgrade from my el-chaepo Craftsman it will be the HF Chest.

Yes, their power tools are nowhere nears as good as a name brand but if you need something for 1 porject or job it may be cheaper than renting if the store is close. 

Their engines are well regarded in go-kart circles and as general replacements for Honda engines in OPE. We've had good luck with our HF generator - starts right away and provides good voltage.

I've had good luck with their hand tools. Not as good as a SnapOn, Matco, or MAC but for the price and being a DIY type of person they are good value. Now that Craftsman is also made in China you may as well save some $$ and get the same tool at HF with a lifetime warranty too.


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## jeffsw6

itguy08 said:


> Do you have a SnapOn Bias or something?


I'm pretty sure I am not the one with the bias here. The reason I used SnapOn as an example is because that's what the magazine used in their claim.

You need to understand that hobbyist and trade magazines are funded by their advertisers. Sometimes they are directly compensated for writing an article that presents their products in a positive way. This is not honest journalism but you can't expect that from a magazine -- it's hard even for newspapers and TV news programs to be unbiased anymore, when it comes to their coverage of consumer goods and services.

Yes, you can buy a lot more U.S. GENERAL tool boxes for the price of a SnapOn. You can buy a lot of Husky, Kobalt, or Craftsman, too.

No one who has used these products would take seriously a comparison of Husky to SnapOn. The same us true of HFT / U.S. GENERAL tool storage. Yes, people understand there is a huge difference in price. There is also a huge difference in materials, build quality, and longevity.

If you want to compare Husky to U.S. GENERAL, go right ahead. Maybe the Husky is more than some people need and the money they save is worth buying the less expensive box.

If you want to point out that the huge majority of DIYers don't need a SnapOn tool chest, that's true, too!

But what is absolutely laughable, is a statement that the HFT tool boxes are comparable to SnapOn. If they were, Home Depot, Lowes, and Sears might as well stop selling tool boxes all together, because Harbor Freight would immediately dominate the market. Since there are still tool boxes for sale at HD I'm pretty sure there hasn't been an earth-moving change in the tool storage market.


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## woodworkbykirk

for mechanics tools no... but for trademan in the construction industry theres a european tool storage system by Thanos known as "systainers" they are interlocking toolboxes that are customizable on the inside.. you set them up to what you want to carry in it.. be it hand tools. drills.. bits.. fasteners.. more and more tool companies are copying the design now and getting away from molded plastic boxes.. bosch and dewalt just released their versions this year in north america


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## itguy08

jeffsw6 said:


> I'm pretty sure I am not the one with the bias here. The reason I used SnapOn as an example is because that's what the magazine used in their claim.
> 
> You need to understand that hobbyist and trade magazines are funded by their advertisers. Sometimes they are directly compensated for writing an article that presents their products in a positive way. This is not honest journalism but you can't expect that from a magazine -- it's hard even for newspapers and TV news programs to be unbiased anymore, when it comes to their coverage of consumer goods and services.


Yes, always take what magazines say with a grain of salt. But when the concensus on other tool boards (Garage Journal in particular) is that the US General boxes are of good quality and built really well I'll stand by that. Granted, I've never seen one up close as I'm not in the market for one as my cheap Craftsman one works for me now. Pretty much every review on the US General boxes has been good. This is from boards, websites, magazines, etc. They say they are an excellent value and very well made.




> No one who has used these products would take seriously a comparison of Husky to SnapOn. The same us true of HFT / U.S. GENERAL tool storage. Yes, people understand there is a huge difference in price. There is also a huge difference in materials, build quality, and longevity.


And few that use these products would take a Home Depot Store Brand (Husky) or a Lowes Store Brand (Kobalt) up against SnapOn. Even Sears' Store Brand (Craftsman) doesn't compare in many areas.

And outside of a broken rail, which can easily be replaced regardless of the manufacturer, if you are actually breaking your toolbox perhaps you should learn to treat things more carefully.

While this guy may be an outlier, he got his start with 100% Harbor Freight tools:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67850

So yes their hand tools and boxes are of high quality. Yes, he's "graduated" to tool truck brands but for 2 years he was using his HF stuff in a professional setting. 

Now that Craftsman is getting sourced in China, as is Kobalt, Husky and many of the other more affordable lines I'm soing to be doing more tool shopping at HF. They all have a lifetime warranty, all are made in China, and the HF hand tools seem to be well made.

Not so sure on their power tools as they still seem quite chintzy but that may well change. Although I'm "migrating" from C3 (sue to Sears' abandoning the line) to Milwukee M12/M18 I'll probably never be able to comment on the HF power tools.

I personally don't care where anyone buys tools or such but to dismiss everything HF sells as junk is realy narrow minded. Yes, a lot of it is price point stuff of dubious quality but the majority of things they sell work fine. If not they wouldn't be in business since the 60's.


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## bassJAM

You've really got to look at each of their tools individually. Personally, I wouldn't touch a single power tool they had. My only experience was with an 18v drill, but from a full charge I could drill only three 3/8" holes through untreated 2x4 before it needed a re-charge. I'm no professional, but I do my own home and auto work, and I'd rather spend $100 on a decent drill that I'll have for 10+ years.

At the same time I have a set of ATV aluminum loading ramps from them that are top-notch. As is an ATV hydraulic lift. Been using the lift for 4 years and it still works great, with no fluid leaks. But, the lift/lever arm on the mechanical motocross bike lift bent on the 3rd use.

Sometimes I'll buy hammers and gear pullers that I only plan on using once, and they've done fine. I have some C-clamps though, that bent after the first use, so I question the quality of steel they use for some things.

I really think it's a crap-shoot buying things from them. Some work fine, others are really bad. I'll continue to use them for one-time use items. Unless its a power tool. If I need a power tool for one use, and can't borrow one from family/friend, I'd rather take my chance getting one used on Craigslist or eBay from a decent brand than trust HF.


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## CaptainMarvel

bassJAM said:


> I really think it's a crap-shoot buying things from them. Some work fine, others are really bad. I'll continue to use them for one-time use items. Unless its a power tool. If I need a power tool for one use, and can't borrow one from family/friend, I'd rather take my chance getting one used on Craigslist or eBay from a decent brand than trust HF.


What's interesting (to me, anyway) is that Craftsman is now, apparently, having their tools built in China as well. There are quite a number of people I know who have always (and continue to recommend) Craftsman products. It would somewhat seem that the "quality" argument lines are becoming somewhat blurred ... at least insofar as Craftsman products vs. HF products.

I do/would like to try to buy "Made in the USA" products/brands as often as it is possible. Sometimes, for me, it's simply a matter of available funds + particular need + my own non-professional/home-hobbiest skill level and overall long-term intent/project-goals, ya know?


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## CaptainMarvel

itguy08 said:


> Now that Craftsman is getting sourced in China, as is Kobalt, Husky and many of the other more affordable lines I'm soing to be doing more tool shopping at HF. They all have a lifetime warranty, all are made in China, and the HF hand tools seem to be well made.


WOW ... Ididn't know that about Kobalt and Husky.




itguy08 said:


> I personally don't care where anyone buys tools or such but to dismiss everything HF sells as junk is really narrow minded. Yes, a lot of it is price point stuff of dubious quality but the majority of things they sell work fine. If not they wouldn't be in business since the 60's.


Exactly the reason why I wanted to start/spark this constructive discussion.

Again, I am NOT dismissing ANY of the constructive comments offered by the more seasoned/experienced DIY'ers here - as this is exactly why I registered an account here. Nevertheless, I can't help but constantly think to myself "how bad can HF power tools really be?" I mean, for the most part, the mechanisms that go into the function/operation of the tools are relatively universal, right? I mean, they almost have to be ... else (as you mention above) Harbor Freight would not have been (and continue to be) successfully in business for over four decades.

Again - because I think it bears repeating relative to my own personal situation - I am not now, nor will I ever be, a professional/master-level or grade contractor, woodworker, constructionist, etc. My vision(s), goals and intentions are - and forever will be - strictly/purely - on/at and on a budget-minded/governed "home-hobbiest/DIY'er/weekend-workshop-man-cave" level.


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## ratherbefishing

Since we all use screen names here, I will admit that I have bought power tools at HF. Some of my friends have, too. Out of respect, I will not tell you who they are, either.
A six inch angle grinder seemed to be running kinda hot on it's first job. My friend put on gloves and kept working. The grinder burst into flames.
My trim router motor works fine. The collet has one slit instead of four, so it frequently lets go of the bit, but the motor works fine. The plastic base slips, too.
My 1/4" cordless impact driver works OK, except the battery life is short. The charger isn't automatic, and warns not to charge after the light turns green. Handy. And replacement batteries are unavailable. And, the chuck won't let go of the bit anymore. Still works OK on #3 phillips, tho.
A 3/8" cordless impact wrench at work still works. Sorta. Replacement batteries were only $10 each. Non automatic charger, again. Since the wrench fell off a workbench, the battery is held in with duct tape.
My buddy's US General tool box actually is OK. As long as it stays in one place. Try to wheel it around, full, and it creaks and squeaks. (I can tell you from experience that most tool chests work fine if they remain stationary. Move a cheap box across the shop once or twice a week and they don't last a year. That's where Snap-On/Mac/Matco quality starts to show.)

Whether I'm laying on a creeper under a car, or standing on a ladder, I've learned that I have little to no patience for cheap tools. OTOH, DIYers using cheap tools helps keep pros in business as DIYers decide they can't do it or don't like it.


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## Mort

CaptainMarvel said:


> I guess I've always been an over zealous "due diligence" kind of guy when it comes to researching items/issues of interest before I invest in something.


This would be the understatement of the year. :laughing:


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## ddawg16

Ok guys....stop the trolling.....

There is another forum I'm on and when the topic of HF vs SO vs CM, well....same attitudes. 

I've come to the conclusion that a SO lover will never say anything good about an HF tool....

SO has some of the stongest brand loyalty of any product.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go check out the new HF store that just opened up down the street.


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## itguy08

ratherbefishing said:


> My buddy's US General tool box actually is OK. As long as it stays in one place. Try to wheel it around, full, and it creaks and squeaks. (I can tell you from experience that most tool chests work fine if they remain stationary. Move a cheap box across the shop once or twice a week and they don't last a year. That's where Snap-On/Mac/Matco quality starts to show.)


Just curious - why would you want to move a full, almost 1000 lb tool box across a shop day in and day out? I'd rather have a tool cart and move that or walk back to the box assuming it's not too far.


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## ToolSeeker

It is my understanding there are no


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## ToolSeeker

It is my understanding there are no power tools that are made in this country. Porter Cable was the last and now they are gone. Zig Ziglar once did a piece on cheap vs quality. He bought a bicycle for his son at a discount store. They didn't have it very long and started to have problems with it, they had to replace the handle bars twice, the seat, and something else. After adding up the repairs they went and bought a new shwein for less than they had in the cheap bike. they had it for over 8 years and had made no repairs. Just saying. If you buy HF tools and are happy with them, and they are doing what you want them to do then go for it.


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## ratherbefishing

itguy08 said:


> Just curious - why would you want to move a full, almost 1000 lb tool box across a shop day in and day out? I'd rather have a tool cart and move that or walk back to the box assuming it's not too far.


Work on cars or motorcycles, move it once a "whenever", when it's time to mop or PW the floor. Work on trucks, aircraft, heavy equipment and you may move it several times a day, to get it closer to the equipment you're working on.


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## dougp23

Have a sawzall I bought from HF, beat the hell out of it routinely, still goes, though occasionally the blade will seize and stop while the motor makes a crazy grinding noise!! So I pull it out of whatever i jammed the blade into, and start again. Keeps going. Think I paid $29 for it.

Like most other posters though, if I want something that I need high quality and long lasting durability for, I will go to other places.


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## toolaholic

dougp23 said:


> Have a sawzall I bought from HF, beat the hell out of it routinely, still goes, though occasionally the blade will seize and stop while the motor makes a crazy grinding noise!! So I pull it out of whatever i jammed the blade into, and start again. Keeps going. Think I paid $29 for it.
> 
> Like most other posters though, if I want something that I need high quality and long lasting durability for, I will go to other places.


It may keep going because the motor isn't powerful enough to destroy gear train on lock up. Milwaukee started putting impact protection gears on their super sawzalls once they went over 8 amps to protect the gear train from impacts and stalling/motor lock up.


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## wrongdave

Been buying HF tools for decades (through the catalog before the intenet). For tools you rarely use but would like to have and couldn't justify the cost of a pro quality version, HF is great. Yes, sometimes you get stuff that just doesn't work, but that's the nature of ultra-cheap tools. Now that I have an HF store nearby, it's also paid off for unusual tools that aren't in stock anywhere else.

It's nice to have nice tools, but it's also nice to have a lot of tools . I have a good mix of high quality stuff, mid-quality stuff, and cheap stuff.


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## bassJAM

ddawg16 said:


> Ok guys....stop the trolling.....
> 
> There is another forum I'm on and when the topic of HF vs SO vs CM, well....same attitudes.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that a SO lover will never say anything good about an HF tool....
> 
> SO has some of the stongest brand loyalty of any product.
> 
> Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go check out the new HF store that just opened up down the street.


Why would anyone bother to argue between the 3? There's really no comparison. Almost all of my hand tools are Craftsman. Only because I can drive just a few minutes away and get anything replaced when I break it. I've got a couple Snap-on and Mac flex head ratchets and they really are worlds better than Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky/big box store tools, at the same time their price reflects that. I'm not a pro, but I am in my tool box at least twice a week to work on my house or a friend's vehicle, so I need decent tools. HB tools just can't stand up to that much use. And their price reflects that as well.


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## Fix'n it

i have some HF tools. most of them work out well, for the price and usage. i have a HF ratchet, it works smooth, and i tied to break it, and couldn't. no, i did put a pipe on it.


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## Jason34

What is actually made in the US nowadays? Even itms that have an american flag on the box is actually assembled or parts are made in another country. I myself own several HF tools as does my father and we have not had a single one fail. I own one of their upright air compressors and its still going strong after 3 years. I've used all their fasteners without any problems. I also own tons of their Pittsburgh hand tools and they held up perfectly. I agree this stuff isn't meant for mechanics are every day hard abuse but they work perfectly fine for general use. Also helps if you take good care of your tools.


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## rusty baker

I really don't know where to buy tools anymore. I have had good and bad tools from HF, Craftsman and Grizzly. I bought mechanic tools from Mac and Snap on in the late 60's that still work like new. I wonder if the ones they make now are as good?
I bought some woodworking tools from Grizzly a few years ago, that were just junk. A couple would not work new out of the box and I am not talking about cheap stuff either. Their store had a whole warehouse full of returned tools.


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## Fix'n it

rusty baker said:


> I wonder if the ones they make now are as good?


much better, in nearly all cases.


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## clpalerm

I call HF a tool dollar store for Men(or women). When I purchase something from here I dont expect it to last to long. SO with this type of expectation I cannot really be disappointed. 

As far as power tools are concerned a few things have been the Pittsburgh brand and lasted a little while and some are still going strong. Everyday tools that I use like a Screw Gun or Impact Wrench I choose Dewalt but than again thats my preference everyone is different. 

All in all the quality is a crap shoot but if you buy something from HF and expect it to last and last you will be disappointed.


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## toolaholic

I use harbor freight tools for once in while special applications. For example I have the Pittsburgh forge double flex 3/8 ratchet and the 1/2 inch indexable ratchet. Both are not everyday ratchets but are life savers when you need them. I really like the 3/8 18" breaker ratcheting breaker bar. I used it to break nuts loose on my 99 dakota R/T shock mounts. It worked fine because my R/T has 50,000 original garage miles. No rusted stuck fasteners. I purchased the 3/8 17" breaker yesterday for the princely sum of 6 dollars and done odd cents(on sale 7.99 - 20% off coupon). I went there to buy long pattern metric wrenches but they looked too Mickey Mouse like so I bought the breaker bar. I then ordered NAPA long pattern wrenches on eBay from cripe distribution for $10 plus 6.50 shipping.


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## PaliBob

I like HFT and consider most of their tools have acceptable quality for the price at least for occasional use. Other than a couple of 4 1/2" angle grinders my only HFT Power Tools are:
Portable Band Saw
Die Grinder
Bandfile Sander 
 None of these three tools came with a case. They were in big foam packaged shipping boxes that took up a lot of room. It was not possible to fit all three in a single HFT Toolbox so I bought a Plano Extra Deep Toolbox that holds all three tools and accessories and threw out the three HFT shipping boxes.

Note I also have the HFT Grinder Safety Guard for straight cuts that will fit other brands of grinders.


----------



## toolaholic

PaliBob said:


> I like HFT and consider most of their tools have acceptable quality for the price at least for occasional use. Other than a couple of 4 1/2" angle grinders my only HFT Power Tools are:
> [*]Portable Band Saw
> [*]Die Grinder
> [*]Bandfile Sander
> None of these three tools came with a case. They were in big foam packaged shipping boxes that took up a lot of room. It was not possible to fit all three in a single HFT Toolbox so I bought a Plano Extra Deep Toolbox that holds all three tools and accessories and threw out the three HFT shipping boxes.
> 
> Note I also have the HFT Grinder Safety Guard for straight cuts that will fit other brands of grinders.


Why so many 4 1/2 grinders? I have a ridgid 4 1/2 metabo clone and a bosch 5" 1773ak concrete grinder. And there's a story behind the concrete grinder. Long story short, I used concrete resurfacer and it rained. Used Bosch grinder to remove ugly ruined resurfacer. Hired guy to put down decorative concrete. That stuff went on to smooth and guy came back several times to redo to add texture. I ended up roughing it up w/ a Flex stair tread roughener.


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## dftc

I have bought a lot of HF stuff, but I do research first. I also don't expect the tools to be as good or last as long as a higher-end brand.
I have had very few problems with the things I have bought. I have a $20 reciprocating saw that I bought years ago and I still use all the time. I also have a small, very cheap, wet tile saw I bought for a small project 2 years ago and seem to keep finding reasons to use, and it hasn't failed yet. I bought a HF roto-hammer recently because it cost less than renting one for two days. It works great and I've used it several times now so even if it breaks tomorrow I'll feel I got more than my money's worth out of it.
My HF dust collector was an awesome value after I added some very inexpensive upgrades.

I was also extremely disappointed in some $1 clamps I bought there that literally started breaking before I even used them. I once bought a cordless 18v drill that was a total waste of money. It worked, but was more like a 5v drill. On the plus side they took it back without any questions. My HF drill press was also a disappointment, but was easily returned as well.

I'll probably continue to buy occasional use tools at HF. I expect to be disappointed sometimes, but I feel that the cost/quality trade-off is reasonable for things I won't be using often. For tools I plan to use more than a few times a year I will happily pay much more for a proven name brand.


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## r0ckstarr

I'm on the fence. It all depends on what you get from them. It's always a 50/50 chance that it will hold up. I bought an angle grinder a couple years ago and it vibrated like crazy. After 30mins of using it, I had to give my hands a break. My father picked it up and started using it, and it imploded in his hands. I returned it for warranty and recieved one that was DOA.

I no longer buy power tools from them.


Untitled by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

On the other hand, I have a 90amp welder that I got from there that works like a dream when it comes to car panels. I've used it quite a bit, and never had a single problem with it, and it even welds aluminum.


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## Missouri Bound

My first purchase from HF was about 20+ years ago. It was a benchtop drill press. I used it yesterday for the millionth time (lots) and it works exactlly as it should. Clamps, jackstands, grinder, hand tools and all sorts of misc. stuff over the years. No large investment and no tears if I break or burn out something. I also have Dewalt, Porter Cable, Skill and Craftsman tools. I actually have a HF tape measure which is about 6 years old....I'm surprised as well. :laughing:. I'll be heading up there next week.


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## PaliBob

HFT has some cool tools that are not well known.
Here is one that is a great set of color coded Bits at a great price

and this Angled Bit Holder

then here is a Folding Work Bench that Iv'e used on site as a stand for cutting trim with a 10" Hitachi Miter Saw.

Note: I have no financial link to HFT. 
I just think they have some cool tools.


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## BFEdenizen

The only thing I've bought from there was our drywall mud pans. I've always been too leery to buy anything else.

On an unrelated note, our hammer drill is a super cheap $9 special from Ace. I didn't even know they made $9 hammer drills. We've been using it to drill concrete for 3 years, and it's still going strong.


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## ToolSeeker

I think the whole thing is some of their tools will work fine but the next one down is no good and to buy one is like pulling the guess what on a candy machine. If all their tools were bad no body would go there. If all their tools were good we wouldn't be having be having this talk. To me it's not worth taking the chance but if you are the lucky one go for it. The good news is you don't have a lot of money invested and they are pretty good about replacing the bad ones.


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## Rico_44

*just a personal opinion*

I like to go into the store and look around but I stay away from electric and cordless tools. as far as hand tools I don't like to buy ratchets, torque wrenches, micrometers, dial indicators and digital calipers. I will buy the dial calipers for home projects and 71/4" skilsaw blade and 10" table saw blades when on special. another Item I will buy are the ratchet type wood clamps; drill bits I kind of stay away from them unless I'm in a rush and really need them.
not talking bad of HF but its my personal opinion.
wear your safety glasses and ear plugs when needed.
stay safe


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## cdaniels

I am a painting contractor and really the only tools I buy at HF are drop cloths and hand tools. Some of the power tools may be ok for DIYer's that will only need the tool a few times but IMO anyone that makes a living with his tools would be a lot better off buying tools that could stand up to day to day use.You get what you pay for and I think HF tools are fine for their intended use.


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## Rico_44

I'm with you Charlie, but I'm retired so all tools are for my projects.


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## mpwalsh

I do a lot of hobby stuff. Mostly making small fishing plugs and repairs around the house. I'm pretty good at what I do and I've used both HF and other more traditional stuff (Dewalt, Bosch, etc)

All of the stuff I've gotten from them that is powered has been junk. I discovered the site about a year ago and bought a few things. The worst offender was the "Dremil" tool they sell. This thing had the power of an electric shaver - really... It was tiny and under powered. I'm sure it got the head spinning fast (RPM), but the problem was that as soon as you touched it to anything it would slow down. 

For example: Fishing plug makers often use a dremel tool to cut wire that has been used to rig hooks to plugs. You could use a pair of clippers, but using the tiny grinding wheel leaves a smoother effect. Well as soon as Touched the grinder to the wire - it slowed to the point of being just a few 100 RPM.

The non-powered, but moving stuff has been OK. I bought a pair of bolt cutters from them that have been serviceable (They are too tight) and I also got some vice-clamps that have been ok. The clamps clearly are lighter (less dense) then my other ones, but as I'm not a contractor - it'll be fine.

The non-Powered and Non-moving stuff has been just fine. I bought a cheap set of files, a few chisels, and a small case (used to hold GoPro Camera). These items were cheap, but as I'm not a Blacksmith, I don't need insane chisels.... I was helping a friend w/ a retaining wall and I knew from past experience that we'd need to break a few blocks for end/corner stuff - so I got these. They worked just fine.


*On a side note - I have this argument w/ a friend all the time. He uses the Ryobi 18v and I have the Dewalt 18v. He insists that 18v = 18v. I insist that my battery is bigger and better and stronger... After 6 years (We bought our drills at the same time) - He admits that my drill won. My holds a charge like a champ, while his seems to run out in about 1/2 the time. But realize - we are debating 6 years of USE... All the stuff I have used from HF has shown it's weakness or poor quality in a manner of minutes or hours.


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## Rico_44

*18v batteries*

sorry I didn't answer sooner I was out of town.
your buddy probably needs to zap his batteries, I did mine and 
from a dead battery it came back to 19.6v and in 24 hrs. it dropped to 18.8v. I have a Ryobi and I know it's not the top of the line but it has helped me build my shed 12'x16'. 2 friends and I remodeled my sister's house and garage, did the siding installed plywood, insulation and wrapped the entire house. oh yeah, we also did the painting.


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## Naval Aviator

I have two of the heavy duty roller base tool chest and they are awesome...ten times better than a similar craftsman chest. I mounted my 6 inch vice on one of them. They are the best value for quality by far on the market and I am thinking of buying two more for my new garage because they are so heavy duty the work top can be used for working items that way several hundred pounds. I have a HF demo hammer that I have used to dig post holes and footings in the mountains for over 3 yrs. As long as you keep grease in the barrel it just keeps on working...best investment of $150.00 ever.


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## Larryh86GT

Back in the 1960's when I started needing tools the only game in town was J H Williams or Craftsmen and they were pretty expensive. Now I have a HF store only 3 blocks from me and I visit there often. It's like anything else - some of their products work great and some things I have learned to avoid. I do have a pile of their 20% coupons that come in handy and I have stock piles of the items that I use a lot of - gloves, etc. I bought a hammer drill there that only lasted for one use - I took it back and replaced it and the replacement has worked fine for 5 years now on many projects around the house and yard so go figure.


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## Rico_44

*HF tool boxes*

Hi Naval Aviator,
I agree on the tool boxes, I think the one you are talking about are the US General. I have the 44" roll away chest and they are sturdy very good quality for the price and I'm thinking of adding the top chest. have a good flight and stay safe.


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## AndyWRS

I needed to cut down two steel plumbing pipes on a roof and i didnt want to sawsal it. I figured i would buy a pipe cutter from HF and get a nice clean cut.

The tool comes with 3 replacement cutting wheels. Needless to say the tool was a total pos, the cutting wheels where breaking. Instead of installing the last cutting wheel i cut the pipes with a sawsal in no time at all. The tool from HF went into the first trash can i found.

Some tools may be fine, but the pipe cutter i got was garbage. I worked in a metal shop for 3 years so this was not operator error. My boss tells me they are hit and miss it just depends on what you need. I would have rather spent $ on a good one then throw away $16...but to get it ouit of my life forever i trashed it. 

I douted it from the get go which is why i took my sawsal as plan B.


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## hyunelan2

Saw a few people here commenting on clamps. Well, this is the 2nd HF clamp that's done this to me in 2 days:










I have better-branded smaller clamps, but as seldom as I used these longer clamps, I bought cheap. Can't believe I snapped off-two ends doing glue-ups on the same project. If buying HF clamps, get the ones that have the metal clamp arms - these plastic ones just don't cut it.


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## Bigplanz

My experience:

3 gallon pancake compressor, $40. Runs a brad nailer (also HF) and a (HF) palm nailer. It blows out my shop vac filter and fills my car tires. I've put 1000 + brads through the nailer. It works ok. 

2) hand tools work as expected. No issues. 1/2 inch breaker bar is good! Electric impact wrench takes 100 FP lugnuts off. The multitool works fine. I use it in all sorts of oddball situations. I burned up a $20 sawszall cutting up a car tire. I have used the $20 belt sander and $25 1/2 inch hammer drill a lot and they do what they're supposed to do. 

I haven't bought anything there that just didn't work at all.


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## dengle

hyunelan2 said:


> Saw a few people here commenting on clamps. Well, this is the 2nd HF clamp that's done this to me in 2 days:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have better-branded smaller clamps, but as seldom as I used these longer clamps, I bought cheap. Can't believe I snapped off-two ends doing glue-ups on the same project. If buying HF clamps, get the ones that have the metal clamp arms - these plastic ones just don't cut it.


I have some of those and they definintely have a "light duty" rating. I've broken the handle off a few as well when wanting "just a bit more" tightness. It feels oh so good when the handle breaks off in a splintery mess when you're squeezing. 

I've found that most power tools are "ok". They do the job but definitely feel like any heavy duty/full time construction work would seriously test their durability. 

Hand tools seem to be pretty solid. It's pretty hard to mess up a screw driver or wrench and hand tools have a lifetime warranty (if I remember correctly). 

I wish those clamps had the same warranty. The good news is the ends come off pretty easy so you should be able to make a wooden or similar replacement end for the clamping that will be much more durable than the too-thin plastic they used. I still have the unit where the squeeze-handle broke. When I have time (i.e. never probably), I'll take it apart to see if a replacement can be fashioned/found.


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## Bigplanz

I have quite a few of those clamps in sizes from one to three feet. I've never broken one but haven't put crushing force on them either. Just tight enough for the glue to set. I have the longer metal ones too and they all work fine at a fraction of the cost of an Irwin. I even have a 60 inch clamp that cost me all of $11. Works great. 

The HF 3 and 6-ton jack stands are also excellent values and the floor jacks, on sale, are great.


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## rusty baker

I have a bunch of HF clamps in my wooworking shop. I have never had a problem with one. Guess, I'm lucky.


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## dengle

I just checked, harbor freight offer lifetime warranty on those clamps, so if you kept the broken ones, you should be able to trade them in for new ones.


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## PaliBob

With HFT you should assume it will break
So to return it, you must keep all your receipts.

It's a pain to keep organized but to start just 
add the description and add them to a dedicated envelop.


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## Missouri Bound

rusty baker said:


> I have a bunch of HF clamps in my wooworking shop. I have never had a problem with one. Guess, I'm lucky.


 I too have Harbor Freight tool. And I don't think it's luck on your part, you are just using them properly, unlike some of the other posters who don't like the tools. Most tools will last if used properly. But I have known people who beat the crap out of wrenches and pliers with a hammer, then b*tch about the poor quality.


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## CaptainMarvel

rusty baker said:


> I have a bunch of HF clamps in my wooworking shop. I have never had a problem with one. Guess, I'm lucky.


Same here ... knock on wood


:whistling2:


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## Jason34

I have nothing but good things to say about their products. I have all sorts of their things. First off I wanted to let you guys know that those orange/black clamps are lifetime warrenty so take them back for a replacement. I have 2 of those as well and both of them broke where the black tab holds the handle (shaft). I simply drilled a hole through the black covers and installed a nut and bolt. I own 3 of their torque wrenches 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. I have used the 1/2" one to tighten down lugs on my breaker box when it got replaced and it worked great. The hex socket I used also came from HF (set of standard and metric) and it worked perfectly. I also have a good amount of their power tools miter saw, multi tool and others I cant even remember and have had no problems with any of them. I have their older 21 gal standup air compressor now for 3 years and still working just as good at it did when I bought it. I also have air tools and impact sockets that are still holding up perfectly. Out of everything I had got from them my only complaint was their central phneumatic brand rubber air hoses that wont last past a year before they dry rot and explode. Other than that the only other things I know to stay away from are their battery powered tools as the batteries themselves dont last long.


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## CaptainMarvel

Well, as someone who is a budget-restricted and strictly home-hobby level DIY'er, I went ahead and purchased the new/latest model *12" Double-Bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw With Laser Guide* from Harbor Freight - in early Jan 2013 - for $119. (pictured below)













Again, speaking purely as a non-professional/non-contractor - and *having no intention or aspirations of ever elevating my "weekend workshop" DIY'er status above/beyond a home-hobby level* - I have to say that, thus far, this latest model miter saw has worked very well for me and the several projects I've worked on/used it for (to date) ...... including dual bevel miter cuts.

(I actually wrote a review for it - it's dated 01/16/2013 on the product page's reviews section).


I also purchased 8 of the 12" hand clamps which, thus far, have held up and performed exactly as expected for me.




Just offering my two-cents worth on the subject - at least insofar as my relative/admitted/acknowledged novice home-hobbyist woodworking level goes.


:bangin:



TOM


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## framer52

I have a lot of their tools. For example, the demo hammer, 1/2" hammer drill, 12 sliding saw, one of their lathes, the cast iron one, probably 30-40 of the clamps, which work find if you don't try to over torque them(they replace for free by just returning it to the store, many of their hand tools. i have a framing gun, 18 gauge trim nailor, 23 gauge nailor, an air compressor.

I have at least 10 tarps, 5 drop cloths and most likely 150 of various size paint brushes.

I have 3 multi tools, which by the way, i have used in excess of 100 blades in, a flooring nailor.

Had I had problems?

Yep, that is why I keep receipts.

I suspect that since tools are made in China, I think that these specs are being exchanged between the manufacturing companies over there.

All of their hand tools carry lifetime warren ties and i have replaced some. So what? I have exchanged snapons, huskies and craftsman hand tools also.

I am a semi retired handyman that does a variety of jobs and have found no real problems so far with any of their tools.


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## CaptainMarvel

Just to review/remind/repeat a point of interest - from my initial posting several months back . . . . 


Back when I was wanting and researching a sliding-compound miter saw (over the course of several months in late 2012 - yah, I take a LONG time with my investigation and research ... it can be torture sometimes (LOL) - I received a message from an old Grade/High School friend of mine whose boyfriendWORKS for Harbor Freight (he apparently runs the Harbor Freight IT Dept). I asked about the "quality" issue versus the sometimes "bad rap" HF power tools get amongst the tool-using community.

*Here was what I originally wrote to my friend *(back on Dec 10, 2012) . . . 


> I've been doing a lot of research on Harbor Freight products - and a lot of their power tools seem to get a bad rap in terms of the issue of quality. I am thinking much of the criticism is coming from more "hardcore" woodworkers and contractors ... which I most definitely am not. I am a complete beginner/novice to the do-it-yourself/home hobby world - and I don't plan on elevating myself any higher than a "home hobby" level.


*and here was the response I received* (after she relayed my question to her boyfriend):


> He looks at their tools as really good quality for the price. They actually have a test warehouse where they test them against name brand products and they do really well. In all honesty, between you and me, they actually buy name brand tools and deconstruct them and build them cheaper.




This info seems to fortify the additional resource I found via a *Popular Hot Rodding - Harbor Freight Review* blog article (dated May 10, 2011) . . . 


> I learned something today that I have to let you in on. Harbor Freight Tools isn’t “just” an importer of cheap, off-shore tools for guys down on bucks. While Harbor Freight Tools could certainly motor on through life as the leader in Chinese-built tools, this California-based company has a surprising mission statement: they want to be a quality leader while maintaining the really low prices they’ve become famous for. Yeah, that’s a statement you might expect, and we’d brush it off as pure hype if we hadn’t visited Harbor Freight’s Quality Assurance Lab in Calabasas, CA for a few hours today. Harbor Freight has built a state-of-the-art testing facility where they test both their own products (future and current) side-by-side with competitive products. And by competitive, I mean segment-leading products by name-brand manufacturers, not discount store private-label products.
> 
> As I toured Harbor Freight’s modern and spacious facility and watched various products being torqued, hammered, pounded, sprayed, immersed, squashed, smashed, radiated, and generally tortured, it dawned on me that Harbor Freight Tools were not only “adequate,” but even preferable.
> 
> All the testing at Harbor Freight’s Quality Assurance Lab is done for a reason. As a global-sourcing importer, the only way HFT can maintain and improve quality is to make the off-shore factories accountable for quality. The constant barrage of testing at HFT’s Calabasas lab gives their inventory buyers and executives the ammunition they need to enforce and improve quality on an on-going basis, while at the same time conducting comparative testing on benchmark products by makers like Snap-On, Bosch, Chicago Pneumatic, Honda, Warn, Binks, Ingersol Rand, Milwaukee, and Craftsman. The US General tool cart was only one of dozens of products I got to sample side-by-side with benchmark brand-name products, and the quality/price comparisons on those were equally astounding.




So, all I'm saying is that it _seems_ that Harbor Freight has been/is making at least _some_ efforts to improve upon their otherwise inconsistent reputation as being a seller of "cheap/poor quality" power tools. I am NOT saying that HF tools are on par with the likes of DeWalt or Bosch or Makita or Porter Cable, etc - not no way, not no how . . . I'm only re-pointing out that HF's quality-assurance efforts may not be as piss poor as some might otherwise assume/conclude - at least insofar as the budget-minded/restricted non-professional-needs DIY'er may be concerned.

Hey, if I _could_ readily afford the top-level Milwauke, DeWalt or Freud tools, I would buy them without blinking. For me - at MY personal and intended level of "craftsmanship" - the option of Harbor Feight tools (and prices) to obtain and use certain tools that are otherwise cost-prohibitive (for an undeterminable extended period of time) is, in my forever novice/padawan opinion, a welcome one.






TOM


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## ToolSeeker

Harbor Freight tools serve a very good purpose if they have a tool that suits your needs at their price and it does what you need it to do then it is a good tool. Yes they seem to have a lot of tools that don't hold up very well but their return policy has always seemed more than fair. So go have fun with your new tool and good luck.


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## loneframer

I'll chime in. I have a HF store a few miles away. I own 3 of their multi-tools, which I keep different blades in and switch tools rather than blades. Total investment....under 60 bucks.

Many of their 6", 12", 18" bar clamps, also 2', 3' and 4' bar clamps that remind me of the old bumper jacks, which I love.

Their 23 gauge pin nailer has been flawless, as has been their 1/4" pneumatic riveting tool.

I own their pocket hole jig....awesome design and well made.

Their tapered countersink bit set has installed many cabinets and doors with me.

I own a few wrench sets that are acceptable.

Hitch step, tie-downs, 1/4" crown stapler, 2 park benches, aluminum torpedo level, movers blankets, vinyl, latex and nitrile gloves, mechanics gloves, small electronic safe, a multitude of kits with o-rings, aerosol clamps, etc. All decent quality for the money.

My favorite purchase is my $2.99 16 ounce rip hammer with curved fiberglass handle.
I used it for about a year and broke it trying to pull a cement coated 12D gun nail out of a floor joist. Took it in on my next trip to HF, showed it to the manager, who went out of her way to ask what she could help me with and was told to grab another one, no questions asked, other than my phone number to put on the exchange paperwork.

I also take full advantage of the many 20% off receipts that I receive, as well as free flashlights, scissors, tape measures, etc.

Don't get me wrong, much of their product line has much to be desired, but if you are selective and reasonably intelligent, it's not hard to know what you're getting for the money.

With a store nearby, if I get bamboozled on occasion, they never give anyone trouble with returns, provided you have a receipt and it's within warranty period.


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## Bigplanz

I broke a 3/8 inch breaker bar when I put a pipe on it. The manager told me I needed a bigger breaker bar so he gave a 1/2 inch in exchange. Sweet!


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## Hardway

Bigplanz said:


> I broke a 3/8 inch breaker bar when I put a pipe on it. The manager told me I needed a bigger breaker bar so he gave a 1/2 inch in exchange. Sweet!


I have broke 1/2" Craftsmen breaker bars, so I would not say that is a quality issue!:laughing:


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## Doc Holliday

cheap is not good and good is not cheap. words to live by.


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## loneframer

Doc Holliday said:


> cheap is not good and good is not cheap. words to live by.


True, but inexpensive and good value for the dollar is money in the bank.:thumbup:

An example is the HF multi-tool. I bought the first one with every intention of destroying it within the first few hours. I used the scraper blade that was included with the tool (which also included a wood cutting blade and detail sanding attachment, spare carbon brushes, and some sand paper, which I paid $20 for with coupon) to remove drywall adhesive from Advantech OSB sub-floor....lots of it. I ran that tool for eight hours a day, for several days. It still works perfectly. 

As a note, we killed a Dremel brand MT, along with a couple others that got too hot to touch within 15 or 20 minutes of use. The HF never got too hot to hold.

I use it for everything imaginable, from cutting off door and cabinet shims, cutting out cabinet backs for outlets, etc. I even used it to cut drywall 3' up off the floor to remove flood damaged material from Sandy....a few hundred feet on one occasion.

I like it so much, I bought 2 more, so I can keep a straight blade in one, round in another and sanding attachment on the other.

The blades at HF are pretty good too and they have a big selection. They also have a universal mounting pattern to fit many other brands.


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## Fix'n it

anyone who does not realize that HF has stepped up their game = is ignorant. i know 2 people that use the EARTHQUAKE 3/8 air ratchet, professionally , and the say it works as well as compairable "truck" ratchets. for FAR less $$$


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## r0ckstarr

I found out that a new HF store opened up nearby. This thread prompted me to go have a look around. 

On the left is one of my Irwin clamps ($14). On the right is 2 Harbor Freight clamps ($3.95/ea).



They are nearly identical. The flat rod is metal on both. The actual clamp piece (blue) is steel on the Irwin, but I think the HF is aluminum. The HF looks like a copy of the Irwin. As a test, I clamped the HF one down to a block of wood, and tightened it as tight as I could get it by hand. That's more than I would ever need to tighten it in normal usage. I was expecting it to break (or strip the threads). It didn't. I got a pair of channel locks and started to tighten it even more. I didn't make it more than half of a turn before the ends started sinking into the wood and I figured that was enough to test it. I have no complaints about the clamps.


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## Jason34

CaptianMarvel.... I see you bought and like the 12" dual bevel miter saw. Im taking a wild guess but I bet you are also annoyed by the trigger activated laser as was I. If you would like to change that to a rocker switch type I made a review on there (basically under the nickname I use here) giving steps on how to install it that way as its very easy. 
I might want to add a few things. Those clamps (orange black) are lifetime warrenty and you dont need a reciept to return them well atleast not where I go. I also have not had any problems with my tools that I have gotten from them. Well I lie. I bought the 12" dual bevel miter saw off their site and when it came everything worked great. I built a nice stable and portable stand for it and mounted it but took notice when I locked it into the 90 and 45 positions (click in settings) that the saw had alot of play to the one side before I tigthened down the knob. Well I later found a small metal piece in the box when I was busting up the styrofoam and that piece goes to the underside of the handle arm on the outisde of the yellow plastice miter release pin thing. So I went and took it back to the store and got a new one. Also want to add that the 3 gallon air compressor is the exact same thing as the craftsman evolv 3 gallon as I have the evolv one. Also alot of people complain that you can never get parts for these tools. That is both true and false. Ofcource you arent going to get the manufacter (chicago Electric brand for example) to get you a replacement part. But I did alittle searching online because several people give the 12" dual bevel miter saw a bad review because they cant get a replacement drive belt for the saw. I searched and founf a company by the name of "performax" that makes the exact same miter saws as what HFT sells. I was able to get a pfg of the manual and get theie phone number for replacement parts. So basically you just need to look.


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## CaptainMarvel

Jason34 said:


> CaptianMarvel.... I see you bought and like the 12" dual bevel miter saw. Im taking a wild guess but I bet you are also annoyed by the trigger activated laser as was I.


Gotta admit ... I am.


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## framer52

I have the saw and have never even put batteries in the laser. i have yet to ever do that with any saw.


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## Jason34

Framer... you have the older model that required batteries. The new model is powered by AC for the laser. I just got annoyed by the trigger activating the laser so i changed it so now i can turn it on/off using a rocker switch. Also new model is a dual bevel which is a HUGE plus


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## AngelArs

CaptainMarvel said:


> I went ahead and purchased the new/latest model 12" Double-Bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw With Laser Guide from Harbor Freight - in early Jan 2013 - for $119.


I am also on a budget and needed a good sliding compound miter saw. Like you I was going to buy the one at harbor freight, even though I heard a few bad things about it. Then, by shear luck I found THIS really nice Ryobi 10" Sliding Compound Miter Saw with Laser. It is usually around $200.00 at home depot. I got it for only around 30.00 more than the harbor freight saw, and the *2* year warranty, plus the fact that it's built MUCH better easily is worth the 30.00 difference. I slapped a Diablo blade on it and I am set. The place I got it from online had incredible customer service, _really_ fast shipping and they included a pair of safety glasses, a flashlight, and two pairs of work gloves as free gifts with the order (_plus a 10.00 coupon for my next purchase_) :thumbup: 

Harbor Freight has some great deals, but you have to use some common sense, and also factor in how much you will be using that particular tool. 9 times out of 10 when you use the 20% off coupon from their site, their tools are a great bargain. In fact the only tool that I ever had poor luck with from them was their clamping pliers. They literally never worked right, so I took them back. Second pair was just as bad so I scrapped them. Everything else from HF has always performed well for what was paid for it


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## Jason34

But does that Ryobi saw bevel both ways? Im not looking at it right now but I dont believe it does. The reason I got that HF saw as well is because of the dual bevel. I actually own the older 10" slide which only bevels to the left and have used it alot for the 3 years I have owned it. All the miter saws we use at work bevel both ways and I have gotten so used to using the bevel to the right that I just needed to get one for myself as well and since I am on a budget I went for the HF one. It works great to be honest with you. I installed a dewalt 60T blade on it and it cuts great. And to be honest with you, I cut through a 5/4"x 8" piece of brazilian cherry and the saw did not bog down at all. At work we have a Hitachi 12" slidiung dual bevel saw which I use to miter our tread risers and that saw bogs down big time cutting yellow pine and poplar.


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## AngelArs

Dual bevel is really only functional if the blade is set true. From the bad reviews I’ve read on the 10” Harbor freight saw, and from personally examining it up close, I don’t believe it can be set true on the Harbor Freight saw. One of the issues some people were complaining about the Harbor Freight saw was that it wouldn’t hold an adjustment true. You would set it and it would be fine, but a few cuts down the road and it would be off again, plus there is a metal screw that many were complaining about, stating that the blade would sometimes hit it. This is simply poor engineering on Harbor Freights part. The majority of people would never need to use a dual bevel, even some professionals don’t consider it very important, and even the few that do would probably only use it for occasionally cutting something like - - _long_ - - pieces of crown molding. I'm not even sure if my saw has dual bevel because it's not a needed feature. Dual bevel is mearly for convenience. You can simply flip your piece over and get the same results as with a dual bevel saw. A dual bevel won't make your life any better if you want QUALITY work. If you want speed, then _maybe_ yes. Besides, since no 2 corners of a any room are equal you'll HAVE TO set your angles for each corner using scrap pieces anyway. I’m not aware of any Harbor Freight 10” miter saw that has dual bevel, but even if one did I probably would not depend on it anyway for the reasons mentioned above. The most important part of your saw is to have a GOOD blade on it, which is why one of the first things I did was to buy a Diablo blade. I’ve never used a dewalt blade but I know it is worlds better than the stock Harbor Freight blade, so you should be in good shape. Just be sure that dewalt blade never comes in contact with that metal screw or it will definitely tear it up.


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## ToolSeeker

I have an old Craftsman dual miter (it was a gift) and that has always been my complaint with it. You could spend an hour setting it perfect and after about 4 cuts it was out again.


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## CaptainMarvel

Okay, I realize that I'll probably get a lot of sneers and jeers for this - along with just as many "why would you . . . " comments, but I'm still curious as to whether anyone here has any experience with Harbor Freight's 10" Table Saw:










http://www.harborfreight.com/10-13-amp-industrial-bench-table-saw-68827.html



I've read many of the reviews on the product page - and there doesn't yet appear to be any on the HF REVIEWS website. Nevertheless, I am much more interested in any thoughts/comments from any of you who might have some first-hand (or even second/third hand) knowledge or experience with this product.

(not looking to do any professional (or even semi-professional) jobs with it - purely home-hobby level DIY stuff).


*THANKS !!!*
(as I run to hide behind a tree to avoid the backlash) 



:whistling2:


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## kwikfishron

I have a couple of the “Ace Hardware” version of that saw. They cost and look the same as that one. Delta also has a saw at that price.

I use one for cutting cedar shingles/shakes when I'm in the air on scaffolding. The other has dado blades in it which I sometimes need on site but that's rare.

As long as it's used for light duty work it's ok for 1x stock, it cuts 2x fine too if you take it easy and don't push it. Push it hard and you “will” burn it up quickly. I look at those saws as “disposable”.

The fence sucks but for light duty hobby use there's nothing wrong with those saws.

Ditch the stock and buy a decent blade.


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## oh'mike

I also had one similar to that---Like Ron said--it's light duty and the fence is sloppy---but I used it until I wore it out----

For occasional use---with some time wasted setting the fence---you will get your moneys worth out of it---


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## AngelArs

kwikfishron said:


> Ditch the stock and buy a decent blade.


+1.

The stock blade is worthless. Slap a good Diablo blade on there and you will be fine.


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## CaptainMarvel

At long last, I'm FINALLY ready to start learning/working with my router. The only thing I need now are router bits. As a BEGINNER WITH A BUDGET, I wanted to get some thoughts/feedback as to whether anyone here has any experience with Harbor Freight's carbide-tip router bits (see link below).

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piec...its-46832.html


It looks like a decent set to start off with - but I would still like to get some thoughts from the community here. 


THANKS !!! - Looking forward to any feedback you can provide.


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## wkearney99

When you know what size and profile bit you need for your router go out and get a decent one. If you're just noodlin' around knocking corners off something then the HF stuff might be sufficient. But if you need to a lot of edges you'll come to regret using cheap stuff and/or not having a spare one handy. I rounded over quite a few cedar boards for my boy's backyard playset. I have an HF set. The bit lost it's sharpness pretty quick, maybe after about a dozen edges. I went out and got two better quality ones. Figuring it's more hassle to have to stop and go get another bit... The rest of the job didn't even put a dent in the better quality bit, so I still have another brand new spare. So for just an occasional bit of edging, sure, the HF set beats nothing... but not for any kind of quantity.


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## CaptainMarvel

wkearney99 said:


> . I have an HF set. The bit lost it's sharpness pretty quick, maybe after about a dozen edges. I went out and got two better quality ones. Figuring it's more hassle to have to stop and go get another bit... The rest of the job didn't even put a dent in the better quality bit . . .


Out of curiosity, what better-quality brand/bit did you pick up?


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## wkearney99

CaptainMarvel said:


> Out of curiosity, what better-quality brand/bit did you pick up?


Yeah, I knew that'd get asked. I can't recall, and all of the stuff is packed up for when we move into the new house this weekend. Realistically I won't see those bits again until Christmas... hopefully of THIS year!

But I got them at a local building supply place, one that tends to avoid selling the lower end tools. Where I trying to decide I'd visit forums that focus on the kind of work involved. I'm sure various woodworking forums would have a lot of great input based on the kinds of woods involved.


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## kwikfishron

Freud, Diablo, Vermont America are all in my box. I don't think I've ever seeked out a particular brand as much as just being satisfied that the hardware store had the profile I needed that day. 

I own quite a few individual bits that cost more than that HF set. I just paid $40 for the Freud version of that cove bit with bearing they're showing.

I agree with just buy a quality bit for whatever profile you need for the project at hand, your collection will grow in time.


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## wkearney99

If I had to guess I'd say they were Vermont America bits, that red/black color scheme seems like what I remember...


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## mklock3

Is there anywhere I can get model numbers and parts for Chicago Electric tools. Trying to work with Chicago Electric is an absolute joke. You stay on the telephone and let it ring and finally it just hangs up. If you can get through to them they will tell you they don't carry that part. Five times I have gotten through just to be told they don't have a model number and they don't carry that item. Is there any help out there?


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## Oso954

If you do not buy Chicago Electric, you won't have parts problems with them.

While some on the board might defend them, I think the majority will agree that you should not buy them.

Toss it, put your money towards buying a better tool.


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## Mort

I didn't realize Chicago Electric had any tools that were worth repairing.


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## Bigplanz

Hard to turn down a $10 angle grinder, which I have had for about 8 years. I use it once a year. 8 times. Still works. I have a $28 hammer drill I have used about 20 times, putting electrical conduit and boxes on concrete block walls. Last time I used it was for drilling about a dozen 1/4 inch holes in 6x6 landscape timbers so I had pilot holes to drive 8 inch spikes into the timber below them. The drill still works.

I have a super old reciprocating saw from HF that I bought 9 years ago. I cut a tire off the rim of a 15 inch wheel with it until it started smoking. Put it aside, figured it was burned up, then on a lark used it to cut some lumber, Still works.

Chicago Electric is cheap. Don't buy it if you make a living off your tools. For me, eh, they work fine.


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