# THHN/conduit



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

If you can run conduit all the way and stay inside the house, why not use mnb cable.
The conduit has to be complete from panel to box or other panel. 
Thhn wire has to be inside a raceway.


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

What color wire did you get?


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## epeterson777 (May 29, 2008)

It's white but I am going to tape the ends red, green, black, and leave the one white. Is that ok?


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nope, it sure isn't. This is getting inspected right?


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

wirenut1110 said:


> You'll need to get a green or bare wire for the ground, and a white or black with yellow or white stripe for the neutral. You cannot re-identify anything smaller than #4. You can pull any size you want for the ground as long as it's not smaller than #10


I told you this 2/16/09 @ 9:00 PM.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

epeterson777 said:


> It's white but I am going to tape the ends red, green, black, and leave the one white. Is that ok?


To comply with code you must purchase white for neutral, green for ground, and any color for line.

Jamie


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

epeterson777 said:


> I was told from my last post that since my city uses 2008 NEC codes that I should use 4/3 copper wire. When I just went to Home Depot the guy said I should use 4 individual, 6 gauge wires. He said that could handle up to 75 amps. He seemed to really know his stuff and 4, #6 wires makes more sense to me (4 gauge seems awfully big). I am going to ground out the sub panel to the main, so that would be the 4th wire. So is the guy at Home Depot right, should I use 4, 6 gauge copper wires?


If he/she is dispensing advice, he/she should be dispensing the correct material.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

I would never trust anyone at home depot, i know you want to trust them because they must know something if they work in the electrical department. I am sure there are some people who work at these big box stores who know there stuff inside out but the bad apples of the group makes everyone look bad.

Any electrician would know that if you were running this in pipe you could reduce the ground and then only need 3 #6 and your smaller ground. In Canada our #6 is good for 65 amps(unless you get one with a high temp rateing or if it is 60 rated it is good for 55A). I am sure it is similar in the US as it is to Canada. So always take what they say with a grain of salt and ask an electrican for a second opinion.


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## epeterson777 (May 29, 2008)

Yeah it's getting inspected. That sucks pretty bad since I already bought the spool and ran some of it. Can't take it back now. I had an electrician and the guy at home depot tell me it was OK to code the wires. I was all set on buying the four different colors but HD told me if I bought the spool and coded the wires it would save me $50 and I would get more wire. So I ran it by an electrician and he said it was ok, sounds like he might have been full of crap too. 

I think I would rather go for it the way it is and hope the inspector cuts me some slack. I am already out $190 for the spool and I will have to spend another $240 for the seperate wires. If I fail the inspection it's $50 for a re-do.


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

I would think he may have let you "slide" if you had all blacks and re-identified those vs. having the white.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

epeterson777 said:


> Yeah it's getting inspected. That sucks pretty bad since I already bought the spool and ran some of it. Can't take it back now. I had an electrician and the guy at home depot tell me it was OK to code the wires. I was all set on buying the four different colors but HD told me if I bought the spool and coded the wires it would save me $50 and I would get more wire. So I ran it by an electrician and he said it was ok, sounds like he might have been full of crap too.
> 
> I think I would rather go for it the way it is and hope the inspector cuts me some slack. I am already out $190 for the spool and I will have to spend another $240 for the seperate wires. If I fail the inspection it's $50 for a re-do.


They are running $155 at menards if your in the Midwest.

Call the inspectors office and ask if they will allow you to reidentify it.

Jamie


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

jbfan said:


> If you can run conduit all the way and stay inside the house, why not use mnb cable.
> The conduit has to be complete from panel to box or other panel.
> Thhn wire has to be inside a raceway.


he could run NM where possible and then change to THHN (or most likely THWN) in conduit elsewhere. It does not have to be one or the other.



darren said:


> Any electrician would know that if you were running this in pipe you could reduce the ground and then only need 3 #6 and your smaller ground.


reduced ground size because it is in pipe? Since when? or actually, it has been since when since anything like this was allowed. Running in pipe does not change the ground conductor size. It actually removes the requirement for an EGC other than the metal conduit but it does not allow downsized EGC. EGC is based on the OCPD as a base but if the wire is upsized for any reason, the EGC is then based on the current carrying conductors.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

epeterson777 said:


> It's white but I am going to tape the ends red, green, black, and leave the one white. Is that ok?


Curiuos if painting the wire = all of it = would pass?
I have seen black wire that was repainted white - as far into the conduit asa I could see

I bought a roll of black #6. It was only a little more then the 2 individual runs at the time. I then bought the white I needed & a smaller green


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## epeterson777 (May 29, 2008)

Well, I decided I am going to take jamiedolan's advice and call the inspector's office on Monday. I'll let you know what they say about it. 

If they say no at least I already have the white cable.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

Hey nap to add i am canadian so i may have made a wrong assumption on the bond. Our bond is based on the largest hot conductor and has nothing to do with the overcurrent device.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

I have spent one too many hours trying to figure out what wire were doing what because the former HOer/electrician taped/painted/stripped a wire a different color. 

You can always sell the cable you bought on craig's list.

Today a chased a five feet of red wire from here to eternity before I found a 1/2 section taped white.  The taped section was hidden from plain view by another wire. 

Do yourself, and anyone else who comes down the line a favor. Use what is code/common practice.


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## epeterson777 (May 29, 2008)

To add to the original question? The conduit will all be in an unfinished utility room. Can I run that conduit under the joists? I was originally envisioning it going through but it sure would be easier if it went under.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

epeterson777 said:


> To add to the original question? The conduit will all be in an unfinished utility room. Can I run that conduit under the joists? I was originally envisioning it going through but it sure would be easier if it went under.



EMT ??

You can run it just about anywhere in or on your home.

Don't try to go through unless you have to.

Jamie


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

darren said:


> Hey nap to add i am canadian so i may have made a wrong assumption on the bond. Our bond is based on the largest hot conductor and has nothing to do with the overcurrent device.


I saw that. Figured you folks have a few things different but is not the conductor also determined by the OCPD, or actually reverse. A circuit ampacity is determined and then the conductor is sized to fulfill that need. The OCPD can be no greater than the ampacity of the conductor (in general use). If a conductor is upsized for derating, the EGC must be upsized as well since what could happen is the breaker gets upsized to max out the conductors and as such, you need the larger EGC of the new circuit.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

oh, and to painting the wire:

No. It's a code violation. I don;t know it offhand but the paint could compromise the insulation.


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

nap said:


> he could run NM where possible and then change to THHN (or most likely THWN) in conduit elsewhere. It does not have to be one or the other.


He was going to run NM until he found out he needed a #4, so he said it was too big. 

He could've been done by now with no worries.:whistling2:



> That sucks pretty bad since I already bought the spool and ran some of it. Can't take it back now. I had an electrician and the guy at home depot tell me it was OK to code the wires.


I'd take it back and tell them this. The box stores are used to it. An electrical supply house may have a problem with it, but I think they'll take it back.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

wirenut1110 said:


> I'd take it back and tell them this. The box stores are used to it. An electrical supply house may have a problem with it, but I think they'll take it back.


I agree. Get the store manager involved. You were given bad, non-compliant and unsafe advice. Do you need 500' rolls of each color? You do know they will cut to length at the store. Just measure how much you need and have it cut to length and insist on a refund for the roll of white. They can sell the remaining partial roll in cut lengths, so they should not have a problem taking it back.

You can use the conduit as the EGC, but there must be a un-broken metal (conduit) path all the way back to the panel.
I personally would pull an ECG in this feeder. Thats just me though.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

J. V. said:


> You can use the conduit as the EGC, but there must be a un-broken metal (conduit) path all the way back to the panel.
> I personally would pull an ECG in this feeder. Thats just me though.


always my preference as well. Just helps me with the warm fuzzies knowing I have a dependable EGC.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

J. V. said:


> I agree. Get the store manager involved. You were given bad, non-compliant and unsafe advice. Do you need 500' rolls of each color? You do know they will cut to length at the store. Just measure how much you need and have it cut to length and insist on a refund for the roll of white. They can sell the remaining partial roll in cut lengths, so they should not have a problem taking it back.
> 
> You can use the conduit as the EGC, but there must be a un-broken metal (conduit) path all the way back to the panel.
> I personally would pull an ECG in this feeder. Thats just me though.


Based on my local HD, I bet they would take it back.

Buying it by the foot for what you need is a good idea, but the Problem with buying it by the foot, is that their price has been severly disproportionate and atleast here, buying 150' with by the foot pricing was the same as buying 500' --at home depot. Lowes is even more expensive.

Jamie


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

nap said:


> Just helps me with the warm fuzzies knowing I have a dependable EGC.


As long as your splices are good. ( did I say that?)  hehe...


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