# refrigerant detector question



## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

i have an older central system and this year it started to fail. i tested the pressures and they are low. so before i just toss r22 into it because that stuff is like gold now i want to find the leak and repair it either myself or have hvac tech. but i want to know where the leak is so i can save a buck and have the tech go to the spot faster. anyway what do you guys thing of this detector for r22? 
Snap-On Tools Pump Automatic Halogen Refrigerant Gas Leak Detector ACT5500

most of the detectors i have researched and fine real bad reviews but this one i can't seem to find any reviews on it. i tried the hvac forum but they will not help you out if your not a pro. thanks


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

That's not a realistic plan since leaks are often in the evaporator coil and not easily accessible to a leak detector probe. If that's true in your case, the tech will tell you the better choice is swap out your old system for a new one. With rare exception, he'd be giving you good advice. Use the money you saved by not buying a leak detector to pay part of his bill.

You can do a visual test to see if there are any traces of oil on any parts of the system and also spray some soapy water solution on suspected areas.

The truth be told, those electronic leak detectors aren't all that great. I always wished they worked as well as the seller would have you believe.

R-22 isn't so high as to be out of the question for an occasional recharge, depends on how fast it's going out.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

did a visual and the condenser is good and dry the line set is good and dry but the evap is a bit corroded and the way it was built it sat in the condisent for 30 years and i think it is there we have a leak. so i think i will see about getting a new one soldering it in and recharge the system next spring. did the soap in the lineset and the ends of the evap and did not see any leaks.should have seen something with 120 pounds in the system when it was off. the condenser ends did not show a leak either and tey are in good shape. 
hate to get a new one if i can help it as they just do not make them like they did years ago. 
thanks


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Is that the one that’s for sale for $30 on eBay?
It may not work, or be out of calibration.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

ebay has a few listed. but yes i have looked online for the best leak testers that i can afford for a dyi use and most they show have bad feedback on amazone. but this one i can't find anything online about. i figure the older units may be just a bit better as companies tend to cheapen there products up to save money over the years.

one reason i'm leaning on fixing this central system as mst new ones have 1 or 2 year warranties and this one made it 31 years so it may just do more if i can get it to go again. also i just installed a late model furnace and all the tech want to install a new heating and cooling system.

i'm going to look for another evap if i find this one is leaking and install it and evac it and refill it. but if i go that route i may have to drain the oil and recharge it with new oil and then new modern refrigerant. but if the leak turns out to be in a repairable place i will repair it and recharge it with r22.

yeas ago i took classes for hvac and in the army i had lots of them but i never had my own tools. i did have the gage but that has long since vanished. i moved 28 years ago and it may still be inside the old central system at the old house.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If it is 31 yrs old there is a very good chance the valves in the compressor are worn and your compression ratio is poor. Your suction pressure rises ( evap temp too ) and your discharge pressure decreases.

Other than a few very rare old Trane units with that old GE type compressor which seem to last longer ( rare as hens teeth ) I have never seen a 30 yr compressor that is pumping more than 80% capacity.

Point is IMO it is worn out and runs a lot longer and uses a lot more elec $$ and is not as comfortable and won't de-humidify well.

I am all about old school units and had a 89 Blazer until 2011 so I know where you are coming from. But even it got to the point of being unsafe and the body was shot so I let her go.

I would not spend any time or $$ on it unless you are doing it for a fun project. It is 7-8 SEER and likely 7.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yuri said:


> If it is 31 yrs old there is a very good chance the valves in the compressor are worn and your compression ratio is poor. Your suction pressure rises ( evap temp too ) and your discharge pressure decreases.
> 
> Other than a few very rare old Trane units with that old GE type compressor which seem to last longer ( rare as hens teeth ) I have never seen a 30 yr compressor that is pumping more than 80% capacity.
> 
> ...


yes that is a good point. i may wind doing that anyway as parts are hard to find. and the cost of r22 is way up. but liek you same something to thin hard about
Snap-On Tools Pump Automatic Halogen Refrigerant Gas Leak Detector ACT5500 or even this one 
Johnson Controls RLD-H10G Refrigerant Leak Detector

both these are now on ebay but i'm wondering if these old school units would be better than the new dyi uses tool they have out there that are china made to just scam us. i can't afford a good usa made new one now but these older units may still be good units to find leaks. thanks

but my main question is still about the


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

I thought your buddy was going to help you on this unit? The one that retired from hvac? Doesn’t he have a leak detector?
I wouldn’t trust an old $30 leak detector from eBay. It may work. But most loose accuracy and don’t work well after a number of years.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yes he did show up but he did not have the tool for sniffing out the leaks he did not say where that went so i told him i would look for on and try again. he worked in ac for lots of years but his tools were company tools i did not know that. he did not work at the same place i did he was a contractor but spent lots of time in our shop because we had lots of a/c stuff going on. i fixed most of the small stuff but again my tools were company tools and i did not use the ones i asked about so that is the question if someone has used these and think they are ok. 

kind of like wrenches i used for 40 year harbor freight tools and never had to replace one of them but other used snapon or craftsman or ??? and someone want to save a buck on old tools and ask if the harbor freight tools are any good. so i ask about these. thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Electronic leak detectors use a heat element and sensor and ion detection and that sensor wears out/dies from old age/usage.

I would not use any old detector as they are worn out.

I use a expensive Bacharach one but they are expensive and also make flue gas testers and high end analyzers for oil and gas combustion testing.

Fieldpiece is a good brand but both are Pro units. I doubt most cheap ones work well at all as you get what you pay for.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

What is the brand name and model # of the unit.

I know where most Carriers leak and same with some other brands. Likely someone here may know where yours likely is.

Even if you want to replace the evap coil the new ones are all a minimum 13-14 SEER and won't work well with your old 7 SEER unit. With your worn compressor and mismatched coil you will get some very weird suction pressures and temps.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

One thing to remember, is you can’t charge the unit with a different refrigerant if you change the evaporator. 
R-410A is a completely different animal, and isn’t a drop in replacement for R-22. 
R-407C can be used but requires a different oil then yours would have. You can recharge with oil but it requires you to uninstall the entire compressor and roll it upside down. So you’d basically be reinstalling a 30 year old compressor back into the unit. 
All of this will require nitrogen, a vacuum pump, gauges, micron gauge, torch, scale, and other specific tools.
Meters and other instruments are calibrated and extremely sensitive. Much different then hand tools. They get banged around and beat up after field use and get out of calibration.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

the central system is a rheem unit model racc-018jas i ran soap bubbles on the turns at the condenser and the evap also the length of the line set. on the high side i did not see any signs of leakage like oil residue on the condenser or the line set. and the evap looked ok for the most part. but for the lines at the bottom that were setting in the condesent tray. i'm thinking the evap has just failed. i can get parts for those 2 units if they turn out to be normally good units. thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I have had the drain pans rot out on those Rheems if you have the metal pan. Now they use plastic.

I suspect the evap coil is leaking.

If you can DIY why not buy a basic Goodman from Alpine and just slam it in?

Better use of your time and $$ IMO.

https://www.alpinehomeair.com/


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

I see a real cheap halide torch from time to time on ebay. That'd be the only old leak detector I'd trust since they're easy to keep in top shape with a little sandpaper. :smile:


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yuri said:


> I have had the drain pans rot out on those Rheems if you have the metal pan. Now they use plastic.
> 
> I suspect the evap coil is leaking.
> 
> ...


thanks after i figure out if i can't fix the current unit i may have to go with a new system. but then you have the warranties to figure out. like i was talking in a previous thread if i was to go that route it would be good to get the precharged units and just install the evap and runt he line set and connect the ends and go with that. but some say the connections leak down to fast. thanks that is why the first thing i want to try is to find the leak on this unit if for no other eason than to see if i can find it and fix it. thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Try some NU Calgon leak detector soap. I have used it for 35 yrs and it bubbles like crazy.

If you can get some nitrogen and pump the system up to 250 psig it is amazing how well that soap works.

https://www.nucalgon.com/products/gas-leak-detectors/gas-leak-detector/


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

thanks but that guy i worked with in the hvac business did that and he did not see that. he had the gages and the soap and the pressure tank but he did nto have the leak testers or any refrigerant. like i said he is now retired and his company provided the tools. he had some but not all. maybe he did like i did when i retired i sold off almost all my machine repair tools figuring i had no use to do machine repair anymore. 

i guess all i'm after is to just see if we are correct in guessing the a coil is bad. being nothing els shows it. it has 120 psi on the system in the off state and others here claim that is plenty to show any leaks. i guess that would be plenty but we could not get the soap in the fins enough to show leaks inside of them. 

i told my girl she is the one with this system that she will need a new one. all i asked was if that leat tester was a good one and would show up leaks better than the ones you see online now that are priced for the home owners to use. we are not going to try to fix the leak. he thins the system is still good enough to get another a coil but the general consensus here is to just get a new unit. so she may just do that. but as mentioned i'm just curious and i like to get to the bottom of things. one reason i was a good machine repairman i got to the bottom of the breakdowns. again thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

120 psi won't work too well in my experience unless you get the soap perfectly on the spot and stare at it for 5 mins.

I had a leak once on a cracked weld that did not show up until I got 275 psig on it. Then the bubbles let loose, at 250 psig it did not bubble.

At that age you may have tiny fissures/stress cracks in the sil foss joints.

Check the tube sheet where the liquid refrigerant lines feed in very carefully, plus the orifice and feeder tubes themselves. Coat them with soap and any joints on the tube sheet.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

thanks but i do not want to keep having my friend drive out to check it out that is why i asked about those testers. if they are any good because that were made back when they made good stuff. thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

They never were that good back then either.

With Snap On and in a auto garage you may have better results because you do not have wind blowing the refrigerant away but I doubt they worked well outside.

Any draft tends to cause problems.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yuri said:


> They never were that good back then either.
> 
> With Snap On and in a auto garage you may have better results because you do not have wind blowing the refrigerant away but I doubt they worked well outside.
> 
> Any draft tends to cause problems.


yep i figure that. and that may also be why they get bad reviews on the internet because the wind is blowing the refrigerant around. but i had to ask. being this is inside in the furnace it would be better.

i did go to that site you showed and asked them about some systems just in case. but around here where i live not teck want to service a system the home owner installs they want to do the complete job. i told them all i would do is instal the a coil the condenser and run the line set and they would solder it evac it and charge what needed to be charged if any but they will not do it. hell i can't even get craigs list guys to do it. i cans ave 2500.00 buck just by setting the parts and let them solder it up. so i may invest in a evac pump and do it myself. i took classes back 20 years ago so the way system come in now all charged it should be easy enough to do. just pull a vacuum and let it set and see if it holds for a few days. then it should be just fine. but it is what it is i guess. thanks


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah where I am none of the major companies will start up a DIY job and we can make a lot more doing other jobs.

it is what it is.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

you know what i may wind up doing next spring is getting all the components and set the a coil and the condenser unit and run the lineset. hell my lineset may be servisable yet. and then solder the lines and set up my air compressor to run a vacuum and let it set for a day or so and make sure it holds the vacuum and then open the condenser valves and let it go. i do that on the old cars n our area all the time and that works good. but that is in my shop not out in the yard. years ago i had a vacuum pump and like a dummy i sold it before i got into the old cars. i may even get a new vacuum pump off ebay and then i will not need my air compressor. it is a job to refit it for pulling a vacuum. also if i want i could jut put some pressure on the joints and just look for bubbles. as then all i have to look for are 4 or 6 connections. and then i have a new system and the freon is way cheaper. but i have to get my air over propane torch going again as well. i don't have a portable torch set and in class we never did soldering with map torches. but that may work also. i may just set me up a test this winter and try it out. it will give me something to do. then i can find out if map will work with my brazing rod and flux. in class we all had air over propane booths. and my torch set is to heavyto cart around outside of my garage. but that is why i wanted to make sure the leak i had was in the a coil then i could just change that out pressure test and recharge and good to go and be done. may just do that anyway. thanks


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

How would you use air to pull a vacuum?
DO NOT use compressed air to pressurize the system. It’s wet and the oxygen content can also cause an explosion. 
Compressed air is a big no for hvac equipment.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

roughneck said:


> How would you use air to pull a vacuum?
> DO NOT use compressed air to pressurize the system. It’s wet and the oxygen content can also cause an explosion.
> Compressed air is a big no for hvac equipment.



By connecting to the intake of the compressor.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yes that is how i do it now when i vac out a car system. but my air compressor is to big to lug out to the girls house. anyway i know you can't put air in the system unless you plan on a lot of time with a vacuum. 

like i said i was asking about the snap on leak detector and if anyone had used one and how they worked. i do not want to get into repairing this i'm just wanting to find the leak. the talk here is to just toss it out and get a new one but like i said i just want to see why it failed. it will cool some so it is not toast but no one will fix it in my area anyway. hell they will not even vac it out and solder/braze up the connections if i was to do the grunt work and install the parts and leave the connections to them. so i have nothing to lose if i was to give it a go. if i had the nitrogen i would braze it up myself but by the time i get all the tools i may as well just have the locals instal a new unit.

also they all want to install the complete system furnace also it must be cheaper for them to get the complete system and install it than just the central system. thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Moved this to automotive forum. Since your asking about an automotive leak detector.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OOps- took me a bit to learn this is not about a car's ac- home ac. Was gonna add a tip/2, but know little about home ac.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yes thansk i was asing about a couple of freon detetors but a moderator must have mis read it and moved it to car section, only because we did some mention of uings some tools on car a/c systems. people just do not read the complete thread or read on and then go off on tangents. as i answered i even kept mentioning that particular tool and still some can in and had other things to mention. it happens. so i may start another thread again jsut to get that tool back in the front. i was asking if anyone had worked with these leak detectors before and if they are any good. the leak detector they have now seem to have poor reviews. but in my 50 years of bying tool sometimes the old tools did work better than the new tools, as mfg. cheapen them up for profits.

Snap-On Tools Pump Automatic Halogen Refrigerant Gas Leak Detector ACT5500 or this one my guess is the moderator seen the snap on and car repair snapped into his mind being snap on is mostly car repair items

Johnson Controls RLD-H10G Refrigerant Leak Detector or this one

Inficon Compass Refrigerant Leak Detector

maybe i can get replies for these only and not to much for repair techniques as everyone has there own way of doing it. and all are good ideas but like changing a flat we all do it different and get the same results. thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The Snap On, is made for the auto industry, and those are the people that would have the most knowledge about them. Not resi or commercial A/C techs.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

that may be so but they are also for the professionals as well. i asked about the the snapon name but it is also known as the TIF 5500 Pump Style Automatic Halogen Leak Detector. so maybe you like that better. just because it has a snapon name does not mean it is just for auto. half the guys i worked with that did maintenance used snapon tools. so maybe if i just put this name here it may stick around this area?

anyone know about this leak detector and if it might be a good unit?

TIF 5500 Pump Style Automatic Halogen Leak Detector

thanks


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

I had one of those old 5500 units. I really can’t remember anything special about it. I still remember seeing it sit in the shop workbench for years as I’m bad about throwing things away. I would say don’t buy it or trust it. Some of the later tif models might be better. The one piece ones. Butt without buying new it’s just a shot in the dark. You might hit the target, you might not if you know what I mean. I do remember that unit having trouble with the black wrapping cracking and peeling. But I just don’t think it did a good job. When you work with your hands everyday you remember the good tools. This is not one of them


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

thanks. i hate to just toss money at a unit that is like you say maybe it will work and maybe it will not. the feedback on the new units both high priced and china are all about the same. tons of poor feedback and that makes me want to look at the older stuff, my experience is that the older stuff seems to be better as the mfg all seemed to want to sell based on quality not profits. thanks i will look more.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

ok hear is one that changes the topic some and the moderator may move it but what is the opinion of installing a mini split system? and just removing the old r22 system? some say theya re junk and other proclaim them to be the future. and with these having the unit pre charged for the complete system and all you do is basically plug itn the power and the line set and be done with it. thanks


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Cleaning up today as I moved from one building to another. Can’t believe I still have this thing. Found a tif 5000 as well. Putting them where they belong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

corvairbob65 said:


> ok hear is one that changes the topic some and the moderator may move it but what is the opinion of installing a mini split system? and just removing the old r22 system? some say theya re junk and other proclaim them to be the future. and with these having the unit pre charged for the complete system and all you do is basically plug itn the power and the line set and be done with it. thanks


We talked about that in your other thread. It’s not plug and play. Requires running the lineset, flairing, pressure testing and evacuation. 
It’s not plug and play like a window unit.
Most are also 208/230V and require a dedicated power source.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

by the looks of that it tell me they must not be as good as expected. otherwise it may still have been in use.

after all the discussion i decided to test the compressor before i go for the leaking system. because i could not find the leak sith bubbles and it does drain out tons of water when it runs so it is moving refrigerant i did not think to look at the possibility tha tthe compressor is just planin failing.

when i was in a/c school one semester after al the class work the instructor gave us all machine to trouble shot and repair. these were donated and he did not know what was wrong with them. we all learned together.

me and another guy got a machine that we just couldn't get to go and at the last day the instructor helped and he finally told us the compressor may be the issue. but we did not get a chance to swap it out as the class ended.

so the pressures i see on the gage may be just from a compressor that just can't get the r22 to the proper pressure by mechanical means. and that may be why i never found the leaks as it may ot have had any.

i guess the way to tell would be to pump out the r22 and weigh it. to see for sure. i will put in a small can and see if the pressure go up if not i may have found the issue. but i also want to find a reliable tester so if anyone has information on one that the dyi person can afford send that along, being the older testers seem to not be what guys are using anymore and the onle here setting in the junk drawer may tell that story. thanks


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

roughneck said:


> We talked about that in your other thread. It’s not plug and play. Requires running the lineset, flairing, pressure testing and evacuation.
> It’s not plug and play like a window unit.
> Most are also 208/230V and require a dedicated power source.


yes we did roughneck. but the ones i see on the market are plug and play they are pre charged and the fitting are threaded and have the schrader valves built in. and have better feedback than the leak testers do.

and i have the power available as if i was to go that route i would be using the old systems power anyway. thanks. 

but again to keep from going off trac i asked about some older testers. and it seems not to many like the older testers so i will look at some of the newr testers and take a hole shot that i pick a good unit. and get a good unit. 

but as i said above i'm now wondering if the compressor is failing. so i have to test for that before i do more thanks.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

corvairbob65 said:


> yes we did roughneck. but the ones i see on the market are plug and play they are pre charged and the fitting are threaded and have the schrader valves built in. and have better feedback than the leak testers do.
> 
> and i have the power available as if i was to go that route i would be using the old systems power anyway. thanks.
> 
> ...


I normally get around 8 years out of a leak detector before it becomes out of calibration and no longer reliable. And/or the battery wears out. 
The ones I buy are $500-$700 each. 
The minis with precharged lines leak. Avoid the units with precharged linesets.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

thanks, i wonder why they have such good reviews over window shakers?

for what i will use these for that is just to much to pay. so i may wind up taking a crap shoot on a less expensive uint or just forget that. bubbles did not show a thing. on the ends of the coils that is why in the other thread i was leaning on the leak if it has one to be in the evap along the lower runs. but my buddy doesn't have those tool as i said they were company tools and he took his and left. he may just change out the evap fo me this spring but he likes the minis also. like i say some lie them and some don't thanks


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

The bargain basic DIY version minisplits with precharged lines and quick connect fittings are about equal to window shakers. They are meant to be disposable as well as they don’t come with much or even any product support. So when it breaks you throw it away. As you can’t really buy parts anyway. They normally last 5-10 years. Or about as long as a window unit. 
And you don’t plug these units into a household outlet. As we discussed before. Even the tiny 115V models require a dedicated circuit. And they don’t do very large of an area. The larger units need a dedicated 208/230V circuit. 
Taking a crap shoot as you say, you may find a dishonest tech selling his old worn out leak detectors that don’t work very well and he’s looking to try and cover the cost of a new one. Leak detectors are test instruments. Test instruments need calibration. Some have easily replaceable sensors and batteries. Some require you to send the unit back to the manufacturer. Some aren’t able to be calibrated at all and just don’t work anymore. But unless you test it, you don’t know if it works or not when you use it.


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## corvairbob65 (Nov 25, 2019)

yes your correct and that is what i figured. but it may just buy her time to save for a central system. as we talked before so because this one is old i have nothing now to lose but a few dollars to give it a try and toss in some ac leak freeze and some r22 and see how it goes. because i can't get a good idea on what is a good homeowners type leak detector and this unit may or not be toast. if it gets a year were good if it smokes tomorrow well it is broke now. so next spring i will recharge it will r22 and some leak sealer and see how it goes. it is not hat enough anymore in mi. to bother with it and if it fails it fails and then it will be window shakers or a mini split. i will try to return next year and let you know how it went. thanks for the help everyone.


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