# Is Fuel Injection needed



## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... If yer not havin' runability issues, No,... fuel injector cleaner is just another way of gettin' yer Money,.....

Ditto the extra oil changes,... Go by yer mileage for oil changes, not Time,.....

Oil don't go bad, nor get dirty sittin' in the motor in a garage, or outdoors,....


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

A perfect example of why I'll never take my car to the quick lub places.

Just use a good quality gasoline and you will be fine on the injectors. Unless the car is sitting for months at a time. 

Oil change interval? The biggest enemy to oil is dirt and heat. The oil filter takes care of the dirt. Unless you are over heating the engine, the oil is not getting too hot. 

As for interval? 4 Months is a bit much...6 months would be fine.

Semi synthetic? Not really needed. Any good 5W-30 will be fine. If you're not driving it hard, then you don't need anything wazoo. 

But, what I would do is make sure the oil filter is changed every time.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Oil does trap moisture. Moisture can build up through condensation in the engine. It's a toss up, I don't think it should be changed every 4 months, I barley do that in my truck and I tow a camper a lot. The only real way to tell would be getting an oil analysis. Probably not worth the money. Oil does matter, but since you barley drive it I wouldn't even use a blend I'd put a conventional oil in to save a few more dollars. I run full synthetic in my truck and my wifes car but they are driven every day. If they weren't I wouldn't spend the extra money.

No on the fuel system clean up. Just keep stabil or seafoam in the tank.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks, I appreciate info. What put me off was a display of bad injectors on the counter. Seemed like a sales pitch.

I have Seafoam I bought last yr for my lawnmower. Should I put a tablespoon in the gas tank every month?

6 months sounds like a good schedule to me.

I buy gas at Racetrack. I buy the cheapest. I've read the labels and they all say 10% or less ethanol.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

It is a sales pitch. Same as them coming out with a extremely dirty air filter claiming it is yours. 

add 1 oz per gallon of fuel. Do it before you next fill up to help it mix with the fuel. Just dumping it in and letting it sit will not help as much.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I change my oil once a year. Whether it needs it or not. If its already running good there is no additive or part that is not a complete waste of money.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

PoleCat said:


> If its already running good there is no additive or part that is not a complete waste of money.


This is a very false statement. There are plenty of parts that should be changed before they fail or even exhibit symptoms. Timing belts come immediately to mind.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

TheBobmanNH said:


> This is a very false statement. There are plenty of parts that should be changed before they fail or even exhibit symptoms. Timing belts come immediately to mind.


That is scheduled maintenance. You can replace yours every year if it makes you sleep better. I run my tires down to the wear bars too. I live on the edge.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

I misunderstood, I thought you were arguing against scheduled maintenance and suggesting you should only replace things when your car "isn't running good."


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

The injection cleaner they sell in parts store is snake oil at best. It does help somewhat but to get the best results would to do a flush with the proper equipment. MotorVac mv3 is the best imo but BG is also good. AC delco X66 is also good. I think that is the part number. They also want you to do it every 50,000 miles. But some tune ups go to 100,000 miles which is when it is best done. Raw gas does not burn. It's the vapors that burn. So if your injector is sraying properly, it will spray a very fine mist. Can't remember the name of that. Atomize the spray I believe. But if your injector is dirty or has deposits, it will spray a stream of gas and it won't be as efficient, thus less gas milage.

The oil filters stops filtering at around 3000 miles. If you have synthetic oil that goes 7500 miles or so, you will have to change the filter twice to get the proper filtration. They don't tell you that. Also if the engine has been run with synthetic, you can go to regular 'dino' oil with out problems. BUT if the engine has been run with regular oil with some miles on it and you put synthetic in there, it will wash everything and put the crud in the oil pan for the sump to pick up/ stop it up. 100,000 miles on engine with reg oil and you can see build up of crud. Some more that others. Same miles on synthetic engine it looks brand new. How I judge a oil change is due on my autos is when the oil is starting to turn darker than when it was new and generally it is around 2500 to 3000 miles with dino oil. I change the synthetic oil in my hot rod the same way as it is carbureted and carbs are not as efficient as fuel injection so gas by products end up in the oil mush faster. :thumbsup:


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Brainbucket said:


> ......
> *The oil filters stops filtering at around 3000 miles*. If you have synthetic oil that goes 7500 miles or so, you will have to change the filter twice to get the proper filtration. They don't tell you that. Also if the engine has been run with synthetic, you can go to regular 'dino' oil with out problems. BUT if the engine has been run with regular oil with some miles on it and you put synthetic in there, it will wash everything and put the crud in the oil pan for the sump to pick up/ stop it up. 100,000 miles on engine with reg oil and you can see build up of crud. Some more that others. Same miles on synthetic engine it looks brand new. How I judge a oil change is due on my autos is when the oil is starting to turn darker than when it was new and generally it is around 2500 to 3000 miles with dino oil. I change the synthetic oil in my hot rod the same way as it is carbureted and carbs are not as efficient as fuel injection so gas by products end up in the oil mush faster. :thumbsup:


Sorry, but that is some really bad info.

There are numerous factors that determine how long a filter will last...type of filter, age of engine, how the car is being driven, conditions, etc. To generically say they quite filtering at 3000 miles is pretty irresponsible. Couple that with the typical manufacture recommendation of every other oil change....and, well, your just totally wrong.

I personally change mine every oil change....main reason being I don't see the reason to leave a quart of dirty oil in the engine along with the new oil.

On my jeep, I change the oil and filter after an off road outing. Long periods of idling...dust and dirt...etc. 

Are you also going to say 'Water Wetter' helps your engines run cooler?


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

TheBobmanNH said:


> I misunderstood, I thought you were arguing against scheduled maintenance and suggesting you should only replace things when your car "isn't running good."


I understand. I didn't offer up a very clear description of what I meant. I literally just came home from getting some new tires for my wife's car and had to decline a long list of suggested services kindly offered by the garage. If I let them call the shots I would be buying new brake pads every week.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Sorry, but that is some really bad info.
> 
> There are numerous factors that determine how long a filter will last...type of filter, age of engine, how the car is being driven, conditions, etc. To generically say they quite filtering at 3000 miles is pretty irresponsible. Couple that with the typical manufacture recommendation of every other oil change....and, well, your just totally wrong.
> 
> ...


I know a few guys that only by Amsoil and love to expound on how great it is and how it lasts for 20,000 miles. But when I ask them why they are changing it @ only 5000 miles then the room gets quiet.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Well, that's what they told me in one of the many schools I went to. I'm not wrong. The car manufactures want you to extend the oil change as to wear down the parts. I did say generally. I do understand what your saying. A quart sized oil filter will last longer that one that's 1/2 a cup size. I have a 83 GMC with a hot 454 and it has the quart sized filter. I also had a 02 Camaro SS LS1 5.7 and the oil filter on that was like a 1/2 cup sized. It was small. But also most of them now a days are small. And it is relative to the oil filter how much goes through it. Your oil does not all go through filter at once. Just a small portion goes through and when oil filter quits filtering, it by passes the filter in a wet sump type. (Built a many a engine). Dry sump is a differant story.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Water wetter does help some engines run cooler...

The manufactures want you to buy more stuff and sooner. The oil change intervals were/are extended because the additives they put in oil are better then they were in 1960, engines also run cleaner, less blow and for the most part sealed.

While the oils have gotten better, the filters are not up to the level the oils are. And should be changed more frequently.


To say the manufactures changed the oil change intervals so you wear down internal parts is pretty far out there. Cars are throw away items now, an engine goes and the car get scraped for the most part. The person just goes and buys another one and bad mouths the manufacture. 

This isn't the 60's when engines lasted 90k and quit, then you put in a new one and kept going.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

We run AmSoil 5w30 in our squad car fleet (they sponsor our K-9 unit and the factory is in our city). They advised us that with their filters and oil, we'd be good for 10k per change (about 3-4 months around here). 

We started doing oil analyses on all 22 of our units and found that the filters were bypassing continuously at 4000 miles and the additive package in the oil was 'finished' around 3500. As a result, we change oil and filter every 3000. They all show higher metal concentrations than our pickup fleet, which are randomly sampled, and run conventional 5w30. 

Their response to the bypassing filters was that the amsoil's detergent package was cleaning all the previous oils' sludge out of the engine. Maybe, but 16 of these units ran the amsoil since their 1st oil change. I don't buy it.

Their 2 cycle oil is great in our small engine stuff, I like their gear lube and ATF, but am not a fan of the engine oil. 

The biggest threat with low mileage cars is moisture in the oil from never heating up enough to boil it out (cold, short trip driving, etc). The lovely waxy buildup that appears under the oil cap. Otherwise, I have no worries running 5000 miles on conventional oil in my 99 Camry. It's not driven every day, but when it is, it's fully warmed up. 

Not a believer in injector cleaners that are added to the fuel tank either. If you really need them cleaned, motorvac or BG/equivalent is the only real way to get it done. Or just replace em -- for our 2014 Explorers, they're $13 each.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Marqed97 said:


> We run AmSoil 5w30 in our squad car fleet (they sponsor our K-9 unit and the factory is in our city). They advised us that with their filters and oil, we'd be good for 10k per change (about 3-4 months around here).
> 
> We started doing oil analyses on all 22 of our units and found that the filters were bypassing continuously at 4000 miles and the additive package in the oil was 'finished' around 3500. As a result, we change oil and filter every 3000. They all show higher metal concentrations than our pickup fleet, which are randomly sampled, and run conventional 5w30.
> 
> ...


If you drive your cars anything like ours, 5K is = to about 15-20K on a normal car. What they (AmSoil) doesn't understand is how much idle time the cars get. In our case...2 hours of idle time is nothing. Stuck at a fatal TC? 4-6 hours at least.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Most of the upper and Amsoil products are rated for +15,000 mile change intervals so they still should have good chemistry and wear numbers on them even at the 5000 mile mark.

"ddawg"… Why do most police cruisers get left running? With the new LED light bars they don't take that much juice so why wouldn't cars just be shut off? 4 to 6 hours of idling seems like it would be a terrible waste of gas.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Just a few guesses as I wouldn't know for sure but the computer, radios ect would draw a lot of power, I would also think a lot of it is habit. There may even be a bit of who cares it's not my money thrown in there.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Are they left running so they can chase after bad guys without having to wait and start their car?


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

While you guys hash this out I am going to go get the nitrogen in my tires changed. Its been 12 months.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

^^^^^^^

Good idea Pole...

My BMW dealer is running a sale on windshield wipers for $75.... and mine are almost 6 months old now.....


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

1985gt said:


> Just a few guesses as I wouldn't know for sure but the computer, radios ect would draw a lot of power, I would also think a lot of it is habit. There may even be a bit of who cares it's not my money thrown in there.


Probably so. I would imagine that the police cruisers would be equipped with an oversize battery or maybe a back up battery. Just seems like letting a car idle for 4 to 6 hours is incredibly wasteful. I do know that there are some technology out there that exists that monitors battery charge level and can automatically fire the car up to try to recharge the battery. I think most police cruisers also have a heavy duty and oversized alternator on them as well.


too.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Computer
Light bar
Headlights
Radio

4-6 hours is an extreme. I only leave it running if the car is out in traffic.

Yep...big battery...and alt.

Don't forget, our cars are not really that special. It's basically a base model with towing package.....oh, special gearing...no limits on the engine....Z rated tires....and about 200 lbs of gear...along with 1-2 awesome deputies.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Computer
> Light bar
> Headlights
> Radio
> ...


Better call for back up. Looks like a pretty rough gang of thugs you got corralled there.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Oil most certainly can "go bad." If you aren't driving very often or many miles, I'd probably change it twice a year. And don't spend the extra on synthetic, given your circumstances.

The only thing regular injector cleaning does is lighter your wallet. You shouldn't go back to that mechanic, unless you were having a specific issue he was trying to help remedy.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

PoleCat said:


> Better call for back up. Looks like a pretty rough gang of thugs you got corralled there.


That was taken two years ago....the troublemaker in the middle is a real handful....ultimate drama queen. The 'thug' on my let is only about 3" shorter than me now.

I'll be at their school tomorrow for the same thing. I'll need to get another pic like this to show the change...but my older boy will be missing....he is at a different school now.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

ddawg16 said:


> Computer
> Light bar
> Headlights
> Radio
> ...


Who's the old guy in the middle..... Is that their grandfather?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Who's the old guy in the middle..... Is that their grandfather?


Old? Physically maybe.....mentally? I haven't grown up yet.

Bet I can give a run for the money. What I lack physically I make up for by cheating.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

ddawg16 said:


> Old? Physically maybe.....mentally? I haven't grown up yet.
> 
> Bet I can give a run for the money. What I lack physically I make up for by cheating.


 
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: (I'm going to plagarize that spirit... ) Chit ...a full head of hair only weighs one down).


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

My owners manual specifically says not to use any type of fuel system cleaners for the life of the car. What does your owners manual say?


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

You mean that book that sits in the glove box, takes up all the room because it is about the size of the 'A' encyclopedia? I'm not sure, never looked at it...

Last one I looked at was on my mom's old Subaru Baja, to replace her tail lights. I knew where they were but wanted to make sure. Remove 2 plastic panels 10 plastic fasteners and you are almost there.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

r0ckstarr said:


> My owners manual specifically says not to use any type of fuel system cleaners for the life of the car. What does your owners manual say?


You dealership sells it...that's why. 

BG-44K works well.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

And 2 years later.....one less boy in elementary....but look how they have grown


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> You dealership sells it...that's why.
> 
> BG-44K works well.


The dealership didn't write the owners manual. The manufacturer did.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Tune up every 50,000, oil change every 30,000... Clean plugs at 25,000
I used to be one of those KoolAid drinkers and tuned up, changed the oil every 3,000 miles.

It's hard on a car to sit for periods of time. Not because the oil goes bad but because the moving parts are not being lubricated.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

ron45 said:


> Tune up every 50,000, oil change every 30,000... Clean plugs at 25,000
> I used to be one of those KoolAid drinkers and tuned up, changed the oil every 3,000 miles.
> 
> It's hard on a car to sit for periods of time. Not because the oil goes bad but because the moving parts are not being lubricated.


Wait, you change your plugs more than you change your oil?


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

We like the peple that change oil every 30,000 I like pulling engines.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Every car I ever had went passed 100,000. Never had to pull my own engine.
Current vehicle 2003 1500 HD Chevy Silverado full cab with quad steer, going on 220,000.
Runs great and looks good..


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

my civic 2007 is about 170k miles and i never change anything except oil on motor every 6.5k miles.
for oil filter, honda recommend it to change it every 2 oil change (so at about every 13k miles!)


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