# Arc fault light briefly lit when turning circuit back on...



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

Total noob here, so I would appreciate any advice or insight . This morning I wanted to disconnect and remove a ceiling fan from a bedroom because I thought it had a problem preventing it from turning on. The light works but not the motor for t he fan. You can hear the motor hum but the blades were not turning. Anyway I wasn't sure which circuit to turn off. One is labeled bedroom 2, another is bedroom 3, and still another "general lighting". To be safe I turned off all 3. I then checked the wall switch that turns the fan on and confirmed the power was off. I unscrewed the fan from the mount, realized I didn't know know to disconnect the wiring (new homeowner!) and proceeded to screw it back in to deal with another day. I then went back downstairs and turned the three circuit back to on. When I flipped "general lighting" back to on, the tiny yellow light next to "arc fault" lit for about 3 - 5 seconds and then the light turned off and stayed off. My question is this: is this temporary lighting of the arc fault light normal when switching the circuit back on? As an aside, the fan now works fine ... As it did when we closed on the house. Weird. Thanks!


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Sounds like a loose connection in the wire nuts in the fan.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Sounds like a loose connection in the wire nuts in the fan.


Causing the fan to now work or causing the arc fault light to light briefly then turn off?


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Okay, lets start from the beginning. How old is this house? Did it have a home inspection and that it was verified in the report that everything worked like it should? Before you started to have problems with the ceiling fans, were they ever in this home before you moved int? Were they working when you walked through looking at it, or when the home inspector did their walk through, and report any oddities?

There are a lot of questions here. BTW, if a fan motor is not working, then when you make a change somewhere and it starts working, that leads me to believe that there is more at stake here, than you have found, and I would go through and double check stuff. Possibly, it was either a loose neutral, or miswired circuit, that had two hots up there, and someone screwed up, when they hooked up the fan and light kit.


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

What brand panel? What brand circuit breaker?

If you say Murray, I'm going to say you saw the LED trip indicator on the AFCI breaker functioning. 

From the Murray website: 

The LED indications will appear for 5 seconds each time the AFCI is turned “ON” up to 30 days after the last trip. One LED will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault. Two LEDs will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault to ground. No indication will be displayed if the AFCI trips as a result of an overcurrent condition. The last known trip indication can also be manually cleared from memory to assist with verifying resolution of the problem.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> Okay, lets start from the beginning. How old is this house? Did it have a home inspection and that it was verified in the report that everything worked like it should? Before you started to have problems with the ceiling fans, were they ever in this home before you moved int? Were they working when you walked through looking at it, or when the home inspector did their walk through, and report any oddities?
> 
> There are a lot of questions here. BTW, if a fan motor is not working, then when you make a change somewhere and it starts working, that leads me to believe that there is more at stake here, than you have found, and I would go through and double check stuff. Possibly, it was either a loose neutral, or miswired circuit, that had two hots up there, and someone screwed up, when they hooked up the fan and light kit.


Don't know if I can properly answer all of these but ... Brand new home. Fan worked during walk through. After that the light worked, the motor hummed, but it's as if the fan part wouldn't catch and rotate. That's why I suspected the fan was the issue, not the wiring. Maybe in playing with it today I somehow got it catch?


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

AandPDan said:


> What brand panel? What brand circuit breaker?
> 
> If you say Murray, I'm going to say you saw the LED trip indicator on the AFCI breaker functioning.
> 
> ...


It's actually Siemens. I wonder if that behaves similarly? 
I actually ran into my contractor in the grocery store today and mentioned it. He said he assumes the arc light turning on while switching it back to ON and then going out could be just a test feature. I would assume (in my zero amount of knowledge on this) that if there was a problem the arc light would stay on, rather than only listing up or a few seconds. Is that a reasonable assumption?


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

Ok found this on Siemens website, which sounds like the Murray one :

_"Here is how the trip indicators work: 
The LED indications will appear for 5 seconds each time the CAFCI is turned “ON” up to 30 days after the last trip.
One LED will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault. On the 2-pole CAFCI, the leg on which the arcing fault was detected can be determined based on which single LED was illuminated.
Two LEDs on the 1-pole CAFCI device or*three LEDs on the 2-pole CAFCI device*will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault to ground.
No indication will be displayed if the CAFCI trips as a result of an overcurrent condition."_

So bottom line ... Since the light appears when i switch to ON, Do I have a problem in my electrical? ( I am so uneducated on this, so go easy on me ).


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

Siemens has the same indicator LED. 

Murray and Siemens are "related" companies.

About that fan not working...that you need to look at.


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

You don't necessarily have a fault.

If you "test" the AFCI with the button, the light will come on. Has it ever tripped?


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

Not that I am aware of.

So if I leave it ON and press test, what should I expect to see if all is normal?

(and yes I plan to return the fan. Right now it is in a bedroom we do not use and the switch on the wall is off, so it hasn't been a priority. Today it was just me trying to finally get around to it :thumbsup: as long as its not dangerous I will have to wait a few more days to take care of it.)

I apologize for the lack of knowledge.


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

darthsmozers said:


> Not that I am aware of.
> 
> So if I leave it ON and press test, what should I expect to see if all is normal?


It should trip.




darthsmozers said:


> I apologize for the lack of knowledge.


No need to apologize. You ask, you learn.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If this is a brand new home, as in just built, the contractor who built it, should be taking care of these issues.


----------



## fa_f3_20 (Dec 30, 2011)

Is the fan connected to a dimmer or speed control? If so, try temporarily replacing it with a standard switch, and then see if the fan runs.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

AandPDan said:


> It should trip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it moves the switch to the middle position, which I assume is trip. I then push it to off and then back to on? If so, is it ok if I see the light for a few seconds again?


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> If this is a brand new home, as in just built, the contractor who built it, should be taking care of these issues.


Yes he does. Just looking for opinions.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

darthsmozers said:


> Yes he does. Just looking for opinions.


My opinion is to get the contractor to up hold their end of the deal, if they gave you a policy that they would fix any problems for X amount of months/years. If they didn't, then that is were your peers come in handy here to help you out.

One opinion of myself and a few others is that AFCI breakers have their problems, and not every company that puts their name knows everything about them, even though they are supposed to be placed under stringent tests like EFI, RFI, EMI, etc.


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

It's acting normally. 

It's tripping like it should and yes you should see the light.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> My opinion is to get the contractor to up hold their end of the deal, if they gave you a policy that they would fix any problems for X amount of months/years. If they didn't, then that is were your peers come in handy here to help you out.
> 
> One opinion of myself and a few others is that AFCI breakers have their problems, and not every company that puts their name knows everything about them, even though they are supposed to be placed under stringent tests like EFI, RFI, EMI, etc.


He has been most helpful. Since its Sunday I thought I'd ask on here instead first andbgenalittle education so I knw what I'm talking about


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

AandPDan said:


> It's acting normally.
> 
> It's tripping like it should and yes you should see the light.


Ok. Well, thanks.
Hmm I wonder, why if I shut off 3 switches (labeled bedroom 2, bedroom 3, and general lighting) did only the general lighting one show the light after switching back on. Could it be that the other 2 have nothing plugged into them as they are empty bedrooms, while general lighting has numerous hallway lights and a few ceiling fans connected?


----------



## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

darthsmozers said:


> He has been most helpful. Since its Sunday I thought I'd ask on here instead first* andbgenalittle* education so I knw what I'm talking about


 
Is this slang, or "text" type or is your keyboard screwed up?


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

Test all of these AFCI breakers and see what happens when you reset them.

If you just turn them off it may not show the LED if there is no stored code. You can also clear the codes.

This might help: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/inter...rray/docs/M AFCI Troubleshooting Card_new.pdf


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

Missouri Bound said:


> Is this slang, or "text" type or is your keyboard screwed up?


Oops iPad keyboard. Should have said "and get a little education".


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

darthsmozers, I turned off the autocorrect on my iPhone, due to it would screw up regularly. Now it is just me doing the screwing up when I type on it, and have to go back and edit when I catch it.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

AandPDan said:


> Test all of these AFCI breakers and see what happens when you reset them.
> 
> If you just turn them off it may not show the LED if there is no stored code. You can also clear the codes.
> 
> This might help: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/inter...rray/docs/M AFCI Troubleshooting Card_new.pdf


Ok, I hit test on another one. It too lights up with arc fault temporarily upon switching it back on. Cool. I guess what I have to figure out is if the original switch I played with showed the light because of a legitimate fault or because I was messing around with it. Question: since I turned it off in the first place to work on the fan, could that be the sole reason why it showed the arc light after turning it back on?


----------



## AandPDan (Mar 27, 2011)

darthsmozers said:


> Ok, I hit test on another one. It too lights up with arc fault temporarily upon switching it back on. Cool. I guess what I have to figure out is if the original switch I played with showed the light because of a legitimate fault or because I was messing around with it. Question: since I turned it off in the first place to work on the fan, could that be the sole reason why it showed the arc light after turning it back on?


Yes, that's probably why you saw the light.

Someone may have hit test at some point before you turned it off or it could have tripped at some point due to a fault.

You may never know - unless it trips again.


----------



## darthsmozers (Dec 31, 2011)

AandPDan said:


> Yes, that's probably why you saw the light.
> 
> Someone may have hit test at some point before you turned it off or it could have tripped at some point due to a fault.
> 
> You may never know - unless it trips again.


And I guess I'll know if it trips again because the lights connected to it will not work and I would have to reset the switch right?


----------



## Ottawahomeinspector_ca (11 mo ago)

darthsmozers said:


> Total noob here, so I would appreciate any advice or insight . This morning I wanted to disconnect and remove a ceiling fan from a bedroom because I thought it had a problem preventing it from turning on. The light works but not the motor for t he fan. You can hear the motor hum but the blades were not turning. Anyway I wasn't sure which circuit to turn off. One is labeled bedroom 2, another is bedroom 3, and still another "general lighting". To be safe I turned off all 3. I then checked the wall switch that turns the fan on and confirmed the power was off. I unscrewed the fan from the mount, realized I didn't know know to disconnect the wiring (new homeowner!) and proceeded to screw it back in to deal with another day. I then went back downstairs and turned the three circuit back to on. When I flipped "general lighting" back to on, the tiny yellow light next to "arc fault" lit for about 3 - 5 seconds and then the light turned off and stayed off. My question is this: is this temporary lighting of the arc fault light normal when switching the circuit back on? As an aside, the fan now works fine ... As it did when we closed on the house. Weird. Thanks!


I realize this is an old one, but for the record, yes it's normal for the little light to come on after you reset a Siemens AFCI breaker. It will extinguish after a few seconds.


----------



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Yep, you're right it is a 10 year old thread.


----------

