# recessed lighting WIRING



## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

There are two ways wire it:

1st way, input power line wire at the switch location

2nd way, input power line wire at the light location

1st way is easier to understand... but depends on where you "steal" the power, you should choose location accordingly... I am sure you go to HD and browse their book you saw the connecting method of these two...


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## tj home (Oct 13, 2006)

were do i go to look at connecting methods??


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## dougrus (Sep 16, 2006)

Before you proceed...
How many lights are installing? You need to make sure if you "tap" off another cucuit that it can handle the extra load.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

each recessed lights is about 75W depends on the pot you bought... like above said the maximum load shouldn't exceeded the breaker value... to determine that, you need to map all devices to all breakers to be 100% sure with the help of walkie talkie and two people running around the house...

the book shows the two circuits is selling at HD which means Home Depot... which I have bought one myself...


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## J187 (May 19, 2006)

Also very important here is to make sure you dont' exceed the rating on the dimmer switch. THe switch you buy will have a wattage rating. Don't go passed 80% of it. SO, if you buy a 600w dimmer, then the most you will be able to install is 6 75w lights. IF you want more than 6, you'll need to bump up to a 1000 watt dimmer. I personally would go for the 1K watt even at 6x75. The 1k dimmer will cost you twice what the 600 would. Also, make sure that when you buy the recessed lights, you pay attention to whether or not you are contacting any insulation. IF so, you'll have to buy IC Contact cans.


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## tj home (Oct 13, 2006)

thaks for the help. i need to know where i should look in the attick for a source to tap into. how do i tap into this source, and what should the wires between the unit and the source and the light or source and the switch, look like.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

You are basically asking how to do this whole job, in detail. If you do not already have some experience in doing small electrical projects I would consider hiring this job out. Several recessed lights on a new dimmer are not exactly a first time job for a DIY'er. 
Also, we cannot see your attic. We do not know what boxes and circuits you have and what the loads are on these existing circuits. You need to have a clue what you are looking at to tell if you can use an existing circuit.

If you are set on doing this yourself I would do as suggested and get at least two good books on home wiring. You need the basics down before you start. THIS IS NOT a learn as you go project.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

Consequently... 
If those recessed cans you propose to use say "Emerald" or "Commercial Electric" on the box, take them back. I'm serious about that. They are the biggest pieces of junk known to mankind, and they frustrate even a good electrician. Get a good brand like Juno, Progress, Lightolier, etc, and you'll have a much smoother install.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

MD which do you prefer in recessed lighting. 3in. or 4in or 5in or 6in. Also do you like monorail lighting.


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## J187 (May 19, 2006)

For me, the size of the recessed fixture would be spefiic to the application. I don't like 4" better than 6" per se, but there are places I would put the 4 that I think the 6 might not go well. 

My opinion on monorail is that its a pretty cool concept and a nice design. Its nice looking as well, but.... I think that you really have to have a specific need for it in order for it to work. LIke, a need for accent lighting in a certain area where you might wanna make a bend or accomodat a corner. Either that or it would go nicely in a fancy or abstract room but only as either accent or an object light. Like, for instance to light a piece of artwork or something..


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

I was thinking kable lighting. I have a small study and i seen these really cool things you can hang off of it. They have a couple airplanes that light up and a parachute guy that lights up. Which that isn't monorail but its similar in a way. But he airplanes are like 240 a piece and the parachute guy is like around the same price. The kable doesn't look cheap either. I think around 549.00 plus hiring a electric guy to make it work.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

747 said:


> MD which do you prefer in recessed lighting. 3in. or 4in or 5in or 6in. .


I could care less what the size is. That's a personal decision. Selecting a good brand is most important. 



747 said:


> Also do you like monorail lighting.


I've installed so little rail and cable, that I have to 're-learn' how it goes together every time. It's pretty cool looking stuff when it's all done. Just takes a little fussing and farting every time to get it from boxes to a finished job on the ceiling.


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## tj home (Oct 13, 2006)

im not asking for a whole job instruction. im asking what is inside a basic power cable. i have experience with wiring i can understand a simple explanation. i need to know what is wraped in an electrical cable so i know how to split and splice it. also this will help me tap into boxes and ends where other fixtures are taken out. i assum there are three wires wrapped, a pos a neg and a ground. also i know it is part of an AC currents.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

to find a source, you cannot tell by looking at it, you need to purchase a live wire tester. hot wire (black) exists at switch for sure, but neutral wire(white) not necessary exists in switch, it might or might not... you need to locate a place which you can steal both hot and neutral wire and make sure you don't mix them up ... hot wire always go through the switch, not the neutral one... but stealing power is only part of the game, calculating the load is another part, you cannot assume the circuit you stole the power have enough capacity for you to add load... although it is likely for one or two 75W pot lights... but you still need to prove it before doing it... for that you need a load map for the circuit you are about to steal power from... good luck... it is not that difficult and easier than it sounds...


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

tj home said:


> i assum there are three wires wrapped, a pos a neg and a ground. also i know it is part of an AC currents.


Wow...

that's all I can say. I know this is a DIY forum, but maybe you should have an electrician stop by. Just a thought.


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## J187 (May 19, 2006)

tj home said:


> im not asking for a whole job instruction..... i have experience with wiring.....i need to know what is wraped in an electrical cable....also i know it is part of an AC currents.


I am so very confused. How do you have experience with wiring, yet you do not know what an electrical cable looks like inside. What have you used to "wire" before? Anyway, there are a lot of different types of electrical cable. Some will include 2 wrapped wires and ground. Some will contain 2 wires no ground, some will have grounds, some will have 3 wires, some will have all wires individually wrapped, others will just have one wrapped.....

If you aren't familiar with these things, I think the best thing you can do is get yourself a good starter book. The black and decker one is great - I think its like, "the complete guide to wiring" or something.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I know electricity is dangereous, but it is not difficult, don't get discourageous, go ahead, you can do it...


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## tj home (Oct 13, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> Wow...
> 
> that's all I can say. I know this is a DIY forum, but maybe you should have an electrician stop by. Just a thought.


maybe you could say how im wrong...just a thought.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

I persoanlly think you have some preconceived notions about home wiring. 
Marc's comments were completely justified. 

I think a couple of good books on home wiring would be a great asset to you. Forget what you think you know and start from scratch.


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## tj home (Oct 13, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> I persoanlly think you have some preconceived notions about home wiring.
> Marc's comments were completely justified.
> 
> I think a couple of good books on home wiring would be a great asset to you. Forget what you think you know and start from scratch.


maybe i haven't made myself clear. i know what i know. i don't assume anything. and if marc can't anwer a question it is not my disposition. this is a DIY site not a site for experts to throw around unusful and critical comments.


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## J187 (May 19, 2006)

You see, Tj, what caused the alarm to sound here is that you've asked a bizare question - " what the inside of a basic electrical cable looks like". My answer to this would be - "Tell me what a basic electrical cable IS and I'll tell you". I think the people in here are more willing to help you than you might think. But we do need to address some concerns before we offer advice which may ultimately become dangerous.

I'm just not sure that you can call anything basic cable. I mean, I GUESS than a 2 wire romex cable, 14-2, with a ground would be a common and hence, basic cable, but if you consider any spot in house where there would be cable run, you've got ABSOLUTELY no reason to assume that that is what's there. It might be a 3 wire cable + ground. Perhaps its a 2 wire and the white wire is used as a hot.... Perhaps its 12 gauge, maybe its not even copper  

You haven't told us the age of your house - you may have aluminum or hell, you might have knob and tube!! 

Electricity is a world of variables and the danger of killing yourself or others exists as well as the possibilty of burning down a house or two. Hence all the concern everytime someone asks a strangley-phrased question. 

I think the best thing for you to do would be to reassess your situation and ask a very detailed and insightful question. My point earlier was this - If you have to ask what the inside of a cable looks like, you've probably never wired anything. If you've never wired anything, you definitely need to do as suggested by others, and get a good book. The black and decker guide to home wiring is great! 

The folks in here aren't trying to give you a hard time, but imagine if someone performing surgery on your spouse turns to the nurse and says, "now what exactly does the liver look like?"


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

I'll second that. No experience with "Emerald" but "Commercial Electric" gets my vote for real garbage. I am not a big fan of "Halo" either. For my choice, it's pretty hard to beat Lightolier, well worth the few bucks extra.

As to the original post by TJ; there are a lot of variables here... define "several" cans (you could easily add 600 to 1000 watts to the existing circuit which may very well be close to maxed out already), Since you have access to an attic, is there any way to run a new circuit from the panel? I would consider hiring an electrician if you are not a reasonably accomplished diy as this is also going to involve fishing wires down a wall for the switch. I have seen the costs of the wall repairs alone make it worth paying an experienced electrician. 

And go with the 1000w dimmer if you have more than four cans on it. You may be planning to put only 75w bulbs in, but remember that many of the full size can will handle up to 150w bulbs.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

I'll second that. No experience with "Emerald" but "Commercial Electric" also gets my vote for trash. Not a big fan of "Halo" either. For my dollar, I use Lightolier whenever possible.

As to the original post by TJ, sounds like a lot of variables here. First define "several" cans. You could easily add 600 to 1000 watts to an existing circuit with recessed cans. I would think about paying an electrician here, as it sounds like you don't have much experience with electrical diy. Since you have attic access, is it possible to run a new circuit to the panel? Since this not only involves attic work, but also fishing a switch leg through a wall, I have seen the cost of the sheetrock repairs alone make it worth the costs of an experienced person. 

Go with the 1000w dimmer if there is more than 5 cans on the circuit. Many of the full size cans can take 150w bulbs. Although I don't know why anyone would want 150's, I have had customers insist on them.Of course the utility company loves them . First you pay to power the oversized lights, then you pay for the ac to remove the huge amount of heat they put out.


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## J187 (May 19, 2006)

troubleseeker said:


> I'll second that. No experience with "Emerald" but "Commercial Electric" also gets my vote for trash. Not a big fan of "Halo" either. For my dollar, I use Lightolier whenever possible.
> 
> As to the original post by TJ, sounds like a lot of variables here. First define "several" cans. You could easily add 600 to 1000 watts to an existing circuit with recessed cans. I would think about paying an electrician here, as it sounds like you don't have much experience with electrical diy. Since you have attic access, is it possible to run a new circuit to the panel? Since this not only involves attic work, but also fishing a switch leg through a wall, I have seen the cost of the sheetrock repairs alone make it worth the costs of an experienced person.
> 
> Go with the 1000w dimmer if there is more than 5 cans on the circuit. Many of the full size cans can take 150w bulbs. Although I don't know why anyone would want 150's, I have had customers insist on them.Of course the utility company loves them . First you pay to power the oversized lights, then you pay for the ac to remove the huge amount of heat they put out.


 
Looks like you REALLY DID second it, eh :laughing: :laughing:


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## crecore (Nov 2, 2005)

maybe I missed it, but one more thing to think about... Are the lights line voltage or low voltage? This will affect the dimmer.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

J187 said:


> Looks like you REALLY DID second it, eh :laughing: :laughing:


 
Guess it was just "in the cards" for a double post. When it double posted I tried to delete one, but they both were deleted, So I retyped the reply and posted it again, Obviously it double posted again. Must have been a good reply.:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## TonyD (Aug 10, 2006)

is there a rule of thumb guide for the distance a recessed light should be from a kitchen wall cabinet. if the wall cabs are 12 inch deep and base cab 24 inch. 

tonyd


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## Glenn (Oct 31, 2006)

tj home said:


> i am preparing to install several recessed lights in the ceiling of a small room with attack access to the other side of the ceiling. installing the actual lights will not be a problem
> WHERE AND WHAT DO I CONNECT THE LIGHT'S POWER LINES TO.
> i know there is the factor of overloading a cercuit, i just don't know how to wire the lights and the dimmer switch i wish to install as well.


Hello everyone


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## Glenn (Oct 31, 2006)

goog morning


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