# Water softener backwash



## BimmerDOm (Oct 20, 2009)

My water softener back-washes into my sump pit, and then the sump pump flushes it out through the pipe to outside. 

I was wondering if it would be advisable to route the backwash directly into the sump pipe as opposed to running it through the pit.

It seems to make sense to me, the sump pump wakes me up at 2AM when the system regenerates, and all the on-off cycles concern me with potential over use of the sump pump (not to mention the power usage) and premature failure.

Could I link the backwash directly into the out pipe? I presume I would need back flow valve


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## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

Yes you could and you could install a check valve in the drain line of the softener and then deal with the softener not backwashing the resin well enough and then having to replace the resin. Ya see, all softenrs flow control the water going out the drain line, and any restrictions in the line reduces that flow more and that is bad for resin.

You should look at it this way, the one night a week that the sump pump wakes you is like a test of the sump pump system. Waking you means its working as designed, not waking you means you should test the system sometime to make sure it will work when needed, right, and you really don't want to do that, right? If it is waking you more frequently than once a week, you need to set your softener up on a more efficient setting, and it probably is too small so you might want to replace it and run the new drain line into the sewer or septic system where it belongs IMO. Choices choices... :wink:


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## BimmerDOm (Oct 20, 2009)

My softener backwashes every 4 days, that's how it was installed. Not sure how often I should get it to backwash.

My test at time of well drill was 318mg/L of hardness. I have a 42k grain softener, we are 2 adults and 2 small children in home.

Is 4 days too often?


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

BimmerDOm said:


> Could I link the backwash directly into the out pipe? I presume I would need back flow valve


 

I would leave it like it is. A high quality pump should last a long time. Furthermore, it is normally code to have an air-gap between the domestic system, and any waste water system. And I assume that is what is being accomplished by this "backwash".

A number of things can be done to limit the noise


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## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

BimmerDOm said:


> My softener backwashes every 4 days, that's how it was installed. Not sure how often I should get it to backwash.
> 
> My test at time of well drill was 318mg/L of hardness. I have a 42k grain softener, we are 2 adults and 2 small children in home.
> 
> Is 4 days too often?


Your softener 'regenerates' every four days, backwashing is part of the regeneration and many softener control valves actually have two backwashes per regeneration.

And it is not set up/programmed to give you 42K or it would be regenerating every 9 days on average but with terrible salt efficiency.

318/17.1=18.6, call it 19 gpg. You should have it set for 1947 gals or 37K IF you don't need a 24 hr reserve. If you do use 4560 grains or 240 gals per 24 hrs (1675 gals). 

That gives you a regeneration every 7-8 days. That conserves water and salt.

You can learn all about that by Clicking Here


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## BimmerDOm (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks Gary!


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## mikepe (Dec 27, 2012)

*water softener and sump pit*

I recently installed a sump pit, prior I had a 18" hole in the basement floor where I ran my two water softener hoses. In the last two weeks the water has spilled out of the sump pit onto my basement floor. the hoses are at the bottom of the new 24" plus deep hole filled with gravel. I would have thought the water would pass through the gravel and remain there and it evaporated like it use to. I don't want to pump it out as it will go onto my grass. any solution ?

thanks,


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## Lightfoot (Jan 16, 2011)

wow, i just realized this thread was over 3 years old.
Mikepe, you might be better served to start a new thread with your question.


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## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

mikepe said:


> I recently installed a sump pit, prior I had a 18" hole in the basement floor where I ran my two water softener hoses. In the last two weeks the water has spilled out of the sump pit onto my basement floor. the hoses are at the bottom of the new 24" plus deep hole filled with gravel. I would have thought the water would pass through the gravel and remain there and it evaporated like it use to. I don't want to pump it out as it will go onto my grass. any solution ?
> 
> thanks,


The "hoses", especially the drain line, should be on at the top of the gravel so the water slows down instead of digging a hole under the gravel but... I would not want that water under my cellar floor. It should go into your sewer or septic system (and no, it won't hurt the septic).


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## mikepe (Dec 27, 2012)

Gary Slusser said:


> The "hoses", especially the drain line, should be on at the top of the gravel so the water slows down instead of digging a hole under the gravel but... I would not want that water under my cellar floor. It should go into your sewer or septic system (and no, it won't hurt the septic).


Hi Gary,

Thanks for your reply, from the two hoses your stating that one is the drain line, how do I indentify marks on them ? Also I'm two far away and finished basement to get at this point to the septic. So when identify the drain bringing up from the gravel, like I stated I have both now at the lowest point then buried under the gravel. As far as the water under the cellar floor it seems to contain inside to the sump pit area. What I don't understand if I had a much lessor deep hole prior to installing the gravel why is it coming out of the pit now. Is it that the gravel is prohibiting from draining out of the hose properly. 

Again thanks for your help !

Regards,


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## Bob999 (Mar 4, 2010)

One possibility is that at the present time the water table is quite high so that the water no longer percolates down as it does when the water table is lower. The would be a very likely situation if you have had a lot of rain (or snow that has melted) lately.


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## Gary Slusser (Sep 16, 2008)

mikepe said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> Thanks for your reply, from the two hoses your stating that one is the drain line, how do I indentify marks on them ? Also I'm two far away and finished basement to get at this point to the septic. So when identify the drain bringing up from the gravel, like I stated I have both now at the lowest point then buried under the gravel. As far as the water under the cellar floor it seems to contain inside to the sump pit area. What I don't understand if I had a much lessor deep hole prior to installing the gravel why is it coming out of the pit now. Is it that the gravel is prohibiting from draining out of the hose properly.
> 
> ...


Put the softener in backwash and see if you can feel or see the line with the water flowing through it or.... pull them both up out of the gravel and see which one has water gushing out of it...

The water flow in the bottom of the hole has probably stirred up mud and blocked up the drainage to the sump pump pit and the water has nowhere to go but up into the gravel and out on the floor.

Why were the lines put under the gravel, what was supposed to be the advantage to that as opposed to it slowly going down through the gravel?

You are never too far away from the septic because the drain water is under pressure and will go where the drain line goes except if it goes too high.

If you want to see if the water table is up, take the gravel out of the hole. As yu have it now there is no use for the gravel being in the hole. 

The second line is from the side of the salt tank right? If so it should be empty unless the water in the tank is high enough to get up to the elbow the line is attached to. And that would indicate a problem like incomplete salt brine suction, an internal control valve leak to the salt tank or too much salt in the tank for the refill water volume.


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## mikepe (Dec 27, 2012)

Hi Gary,


The water hasn't come out of the pit in the last couple of days, so seems the water table might have played a role. The reason I left the water softener lines below the gravel was thinking it would be less likely to overflow. Mind you the pit was at least 1 1/2 less deep before and never had a problem. So being deeper would have thought it wouldn't have come up. Is the gravel the problem deplaces the size of the hole, maybe your right place the hoses on top so it seeps down to the bottom ? I don't know if the sump has triggered since I have the backwash happening when I'm as sleep, or the water doesn't fill up high enough it the plastic pit to trigger the pump. In any case I need to ensure the pump is working. Again greatly appreciate your help.

Regards,
Mike


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