# underground natural gas line



## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

Captflx said:


> I recently got an estimate from a HVAC company to run gas line to shop. From the meter, he would run 3/4" black pipe attached to side of house above footing for 30 ft., go into ground 20" with 3/4" copper and run it 125 feet, exit with 3/4" with black pipe up side of shop 8 ft, then into shop 18" with a cut off valve. A total of 167 feet.
> First, I thought $10 per foot was on the high side, but now as I look deeper into the requirements, I don't think he would be to code with the 3/4" copper pipe----he said that he was a certified pipe fitter.
> 
> Anyone have any idea about the cost of the yellow poly pipe that is available for gas?


 
Copper would be to code... The size will depend on length & the pressure on the pipe & the total BTU of appliances.There are sizing charts in the code book.. He should be able to give you a price n the poly pipe , fittings & the risers that will be needed... If you go with poly . I suggest that you have him install a tracer wire


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## Aggie67 (Dec 20, 2008)

In my state you need to be a licensed plumber to do gas lines. Or the homeowner. If it's above ground, I can file the permit as an exempt contractor, and if the town ok's it, I can do it. But the town has say-so.

Copper can be a bad idea for natural gas, depending on how clean or dirty it is. Plus the joint from steel to copper can be a problem. Around here if it's going in the ground, it's either steel pipe with factory applied coating, or fused polyethylene with tracer wire and warning tape.

Being a certified pipe fitter is only as meaningful as the regulating body that certifies him. 

Also, the town should have ultimate say on type of pipe. Size would also need to be calculated, not guessed at.

The PE pipe is less expensive and easy if you have the right tools and are factory trained. 

But check with the town and make sure a licensed plumber isn't required.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

Aggie67 said:


> In my state you need to be a licensed plumber to do gas lines. Or the homeowner. If it's above ground, I can file the permit as an exempt contractor, and if the town ok's it, I can do it. But the town has say-so.
> 
> Copper can be a bad idea for natural gas, depending on how clean or dirty it is. Plus the joint from steel to copper can be a problem. Around here if it's going in the ground, it's either steel pipe with factory applied coating, or fused polyethylene with tracer wire and warning tape.
> 
> ...


 


Like you said about copper. It depends on the nat gas in your area.. It can cause scale to form inside the copper.. In my area there are thousands of houses piped totally with copper. Making the connection from steel to copper isn't a problem . You just use a brass fitting from pipe thread to sae thread.. Here if you are a plumber .You also have to be certified gas fitter to run gas.. All depends on area what is / isn't required


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Hope its only a 20,000 BTU appliance, with that length.
Or else a med, or high pressure gas line.


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## Captflx (Oct 21, 2007)

Actually, the heater is 30,000 BTU input with 80% eff. output. Higher pressure needed?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Beenthere must have looked it up in the sizing tables 4U. Personally I would use 1" otherwise you will need higher pressure and another stepdown pressure regulator at the shop. If the copper gets any bit of a kink it will reduce in size and if scaling is a problem then it is not recommended. With 1" you have some safety margin and room for expansion later.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

¾" cooper gas a 45,000 BTU rating at 175'.

How ever, that doesn't allow for the bends, or any roller coaster area of the copper.

1" is much better if your gas pressure is less then ½".


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## Captflx (Oct 21, 2007)

OHHHHHH. I see a big bill coming up if I have to go to a 1" line! 
Thanks to all for your input.


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## sktn77a (May 11, 2009)

My non-professional opinion is to stay away from the poly lines. Oh, sure, they seem good now, but that's what they said about poly waterlines 20 years ago. Anybody in the HVAC business for some time will also remember the grey Hart and Cooley PVC furnace vent pipes which had to be replaced with externally vented, dual wall, metal pipes. 

Let someone else be the guinea pig for the pipe manufacturers!


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

Most gas utilities in my area have been using this http://www.teecoproducts.com/catalog/F1.htm For years..


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

Captflx said:


> OHHHHHH. I see a big bill coming up if I have to go to a 1" line!
> Thanks to all for your input.


 

Don't know what kind of 3/4 copper he intends to use.. The 3/4 black pipe will be 3/4 I. D. The copper could be 3/4 O.D.which would be 1/2 I. D. Just depends on the copper he uses


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## DonCorneo (Jun 11, 2010)

Aggie67 said:


> In my state [New Jersey] you need to be a licensed plumber to do gas lines. Or the homeowner. If it's above ground, I can file the permit as an exempt contractor, and if the town ok's it, I can do it. But the town has say-so.
> 
> Copper can be a bad idea for natural gas, depending on how clean or dirty it is. Plus the joint from steel to copper can be a problem. Around here if it's going in the ground, it's either steel pipe with factory applied coating, or fused polyethylene with tracer wire and warning tape.
> 
> ...


Late post, just to clarify some things said in this thread in case others use it for reference. 
Correction note: In New Jersey, any person can install gas pipe. No license, certification or otherwise is needed.
But to connect the piping to the gas source (such as gas company meter), or to connect any gas appliance (such as furnace, water heater, stove, etc.) to the piping, you need to be a Licensed Master Plumber, or be the home owner.

Also, using plain black pipe outside is not recommended because it will rust. Either coat the pipe after installation with galvanized paint, or using galvanized piping instead of black. Painting will most likely be cheaper, but you need to make sure every bit of the black pipe is completely coated with the paint.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with poly gas pipe. Short of a manufacturer defect, it is the best way to go. Currently it is estimated to last 100 years in some brands.
The water pipe issue was due to the chlorine added to the water "eating away" at the plastic water pipe causing a toxic mixture in the water. Gas lines do not have chlorine and only small amounts of water, so this is not an issue.


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## rollandelliott (Jul 24, 2012)

from zoro.com it is cheap also available from amazon.com
G1054855 Underground Natural and LP Gas Tubing and Fittings Gas Tubing, Yellow, 1.05 In OD, 150 Ft $101.40

the problem are the darn fittings. I spent a few hours trying to get them. continental makes some and there are other companies as well. hard as hell trying to find someone locally or online that sells t hem.

$24 for a coupler, $45 for a male adapter, $24 for coupling tool. I've got $175 in adapters just to connect this pipe from one end to the other!


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## REP (Jul 24, 2011)

When did poly come into gas puiping.I retired 10 years ago and before that I use flexable stainless with a yellow poly coating.The gas never saw the ploy,it was just a coating like electrical insulation on coppeer wire.The Stainless is better than black iron or copper as far as strength and lasting ability goes.


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

kenmac said:


> Most gas utilities in my area have been using this http://www.teecoproducts.com/catalog/F1.htm For years..


That what my Gas Utility used to repair my line. I also believe a trace wire is mandatory.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Holly "Old Thread Batman".....


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## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

REP said:


> When did poly come into gas puiping.I retired 10 years ago and before that I use flexable stainless with a yellow poly coating.The gas never saw the ploy,it was just a coating like electrical insulation on coppeer wire.The Stainless is better than black iron or copper as far as strength and lasting ability goes.


Polyethylene (PE) pipe has been in use for at least 20 years. It can only be used underground. Most gas companies are now using it for distribution piping because it is far superior to using steel underground.


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## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Holly "Old Thread Batman".....


Holly? Still in the Christmas spirit I see. Lol.


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## old_squid (Oct 31, 2012)

Underground poly gas lines is how the utilities have been running services here forever. The mains were steel years ago and some still are but even those are run in poly now.

I ran into a buried copper gas supply line once that was crushed underground because the people drove their cars over where it was buried during the winter time. The compacted moist ground froze and flattened the pipe so that no gas would pass. Just a thought to consider if you live where you get frost in the ground.

Legal or not I don't like the idea of a copper gas line buried in the ground between buildings. Lightning loves good conductors. I use poly or nothing.


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