# metal vs shingles



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

No.

That is the short answer.

Can it be done, sure. Learning on your home and it being your first crack at it is not typically where you want to start.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

I have installed many metal roofs and no longer recommend them for houses, if you are talking the kind which are attached with screws with gaskets.

If you have any valleys they are really hard to seal.
Screws will back out as wood dries and cause leaks. OK on a barn or shed but not on a house.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

There is certainly nothing difficult about metal roofing. The hardest part is being careful where you step.
And it'll cut your hands up if you let it.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

av-geek said:


> I am looking to replace the roof on my house soon, and want to go metal. The options for steel roofs look very good, with many having 35-50 year warrantees on them.  How much more does the material cost over shingles? I am thinking about installing the metal roof myself. It looks like much less labor than installing shingles, and in fact, one site showed the metal roof being installed right over top of the old shingles with horizontal boards simply placed over the shingles and the metal roof sheets attached to that. I am figuring that the amount of money I can save by installing the metal roof myself will offset the cost of the metal roof over having a roofing company come in, strip the old shingles off, and install new shingles that will, of course, need replacing in another 15 years. Any of you all have experience with this? Is it really as easy as it is made out to be?


Asking how much a metal roof costs is about like asking how much an automobile costs. There's lots of variety: Gauge, finish, type fastener, panels or shingles, etc. They are not all created equal.

Lighter gauge material is more susceptible to hail or wind damage. I've seen the less expensive finishes fail in three years. Exposed fastener systems can have maintenance issues with the screws. 

I'd do lots of research before taking on a DIY metal roof. I've seen lots of jobs done by professionals that are problematic. I'm not advising you not to take it on, but unless you've got a pretty simple roof, your failure odds are pretty high. It's a lot simpler to fix a leaking valley in an asphalt shingle roof than in a metal panel roof. 

If it was "as easy as it's made out to be", I wouldn't be tearing off and replacing a couple of failed attempts a year.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

titanoman said:


> There is certainly nothing difficult about metal roofing. The hardest part is being careful where you step.
> And it'll cut your hands up if you let it.


Let me guess: You're not a roofer, but you play one on the internet:whistling2:


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

seeyou said:


> Let me guess: You're not a roofer, but you play one on the internet:whistling2:


I can think of more interesting things to portray on the internet than a roofer!
I mean really, come on, its a freakin' roof. 
You only need to be 2% smarter than the object you're working on, in this case, a piece of metal and a few screws.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

titanoman said:


> I can think of more interesting things to portray on the internet than a roofer!
> I mean really, come on, its a freakin' roof.
> You only need to be 2% smarter than the object you're working on, in this case, a piece of metal and a few screws.



And to play the flute, you blow in one end and move your fingers on the outside. 

What else does one need to know about it?

To build a house you just need some wood and a couple of nails. You only need to be 2% smarter than a 2x4.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

seeyou said:


> And to play the flute, you blow in one end and move your fingers on the outside.
> 
> What else does one need to know about it?
> 
> ...


You are ignorant to think you have a clue about my abilities. The messes I make? You don't know me. Who the **** do you think you are, you little pansy?


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Time to back off on the testosterone supplements!


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

bob22 said:


> Time to back off on the testosterone supplements!


Sorry. Was just arguing with my neighbor right before and had to unload on somebody.
I'm all better now.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Shingle warranties are now the same as metal. Will they last as long as they say? I doubt it.

Why not use asphalt? The cost of a roof is extremely cheap. It's one of the cheapest home improvements you can do and it's still the most important.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

av-geek said:


> I am looking to replace the roof on my house soon, and want to go metal. The options for steel roofs look very good, with many having 35-50 year warrantees on them. How much more does the material cost over shingles? I am thinking about installing the metal roof myself. It looks like much less labor than installing shingles, and in fact, one site showed the metal roof being installed right over top of the old shingles with horizontal boards simply placed over the shingles and the metal roof sheets attached to that. I am figuring that the amount of money I can save by installing the metal roof myself will offset the cost of the metal roof over having a roofing company come in, strip the old shingles off, and install new shingles that will, of course, need replacing in another 15 years. Any of you all have experience with this? Is it really as easy as it is made out to be?


First off, I'd ask what makes you think that shingles will only last 15 yrs? Most shingles, especially architectural, last a minimum of 30 yrs....and you can get nicer ones that have 50 yr. warranties. 

As far as aesthetics, the only time I have ever thought metal looks good on residential homes, is if the home is an older style farm house....but that's just my personal preference. 

If you've never done a metal roof or asphalt shingles, hire it out...period. Maybe you can tear off what's there now, but being inexperienced and doing your own roof is not something I would recommend.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> First off, I'd ask what makes you think that shingles will only last 15 yrs? Most shingles, especially architectural, last a *minimum of 30 yrs*....and you can get nicer ones that have 50 yr. warranties.
> 
> As far as aesthetics, the only time I have ever thought metal looks good on residential homes, is if the home is an older style farm house....but that's just my personal preference.
> 
> If you've never done a metal roof or asphalt shingles, hire it out...period. Maybe you can tear off what's there now, but being inexperienced and doing your own roof is not something I would recommend.


I just spit my coffee all over my monitor.

The newer metal systems out there look better than asphalt when you ask most customers.

That not withstanding, good metal is an investment for certain.


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## Ycreek (Aug 5, 2011)

If you've got a standard gable roof with one ridge, even someone who "plays a roofer on the Internet" can successfully (and precisely) install a metal roof. If you've got hips, valleys and upper and lower gambrels, hire it out. Oh, and by the way, good luck on getting 20, 25, or 30 years out of ANY asphalt roof. It can happen but it's rare.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

titanoman said:


> You are ignorant to think you have a clue about my abilities. The messes I make? You don't know me. Who the **** do you think you are, you little pansy?


I could quite possibly be wrong about your abilities. I was just basing my assessment on the advice you gave. That was all I had to go by. 

The OP was barely informed (probably by some infomercial) and came here to broaden his knowledge base. 

Without knowing his roof, it's hard to say whether it would be simple or not. A poorly installed metal roof can be more of a liability than an asset.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Do not confuse the warranty period with the actual length a roof will last. I have done over 200 forensic insurance investigations on houses that have been damaged (wind, water, hail, impact, foundation failure etc.) and I have never met anyone who collected on a roof warranty. The reasons they fail to collect are multiple, sometimes the roofer is out of business, usually they did not read the warranty carefully, and did not realize that they were prorated material only, etc.

So in my experience, length of warranty is loosely, or maybe not at all, correlated with product lifespan. For example, those of you married out there, you probably think you have a lifetime warranty, but most marriages will end in divorce. Go try to collect on that warranty.

As to roof materials, I can certainly speak to roof performance in hurricane country, having done about 180 damage inspections after Katrina and Rita. Low cost three tab asphalt shingles are about the worst, they rarely survive even a minor hurricane, and if they do they need to be replaced. Heavy weight architectural shingles do pretty well, especially if they are properly attached (four or five nails per shingle, high grip nails). I have photos of houses along the coast where one house has three tab shingles, essentially destroyed, and the house next to it has architectural shingles, relatively little damage.

High quality metal roof, properly installed, do very well. When I inspected Jim Bob's pool hall after Katrina, the metal siding was destroyed, but the metal roof was perfect. Very interesting case, pretty typical of quality roof installation. Poorly installed metal roof are catastrophic in hurricanes, the roof comes off in sheets, becoming a lethal hazard.

Clay tile roofs did surprising well, the biggest issue was tile damage from flying debris. They are not common, and they require special installation techniques, but they seem to last a long time, and perform well under stress. As do slate roofs. I inspected half a dozen homes in New Orleans area with real slate roofs, absolutely minimal damage. Again, hard to install correctly, heavy, and expensive. A good slate roof might last a hundred years with reasonable maintenance, which is longer than any other type of roof I have looked at.

As to installing a roof yourself, well this is no different than any other skilled trade, it is always MUCH HARDER than you think it is going to be, and the results on the first try are likely to less than optimal. As to saving money, how much is your time worth? If the answer is zero, and you don't mind suboptimal results, have at it. Personally I do a lot of my own work, but I never try to justify it by claiming I am saving money or doing a better job than a trained professional, I do the jobs because I enjoy the experience. I wouldn't touch roofing, too dangerous, too difficult, but to each their own.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Daniel as always your perspective is interesting and based on a great dealo of experience. 

On the subject of warranty and marriages, that all depends on what side of the coin you are on, she for instance collected a bundle.......:huh:

Mark


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

There are many different types of metal roofing, What type is the OP talking about?


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Windows on Wash said:


> I just spit my coffee all over my monitor.
> 
> The newer metal systems out there look better than asphalt when you ask most customers.
> 
> That not withstanding, good metal is an investment for certain.


Whether they last that long or not is a matter of many factors.....but even low end shingles have 30 yr warranty


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> Whether they last that long or not is a matter of many factors.....but even low end shingles have 30 yr warranty


Sure...and the paper they are written on is probably more useful for starting a fire than enforcing the warranty.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Windows on Wash said:


> Sure...and the paper they are written on is probably more useful for starting a fire than enforcing the warranty.


True....but it's not the shingles' fault or the manufacturer that roofers don't install them to the specifications in the warranty.....and I know that it is near impossible with some manufacturers to meet their warranty terms.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> Whether they last that long or not is a matter of many factors.....but even low end shingles have 30 yr warranty


Most 3-tab is 20yr.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

cibula11 said:


> True....but it's not the shingles' fault or the manufacturer that roofers don't install them to the specifications in the warranty.....and I know that it is near impossible with some manufacturers to meet their warranty terms.


Is this a joke?

Please don't tell me that you think the primary reason for premature failure of shingle roofs is all installation issues.

We are getting ready to replace 2 roofs that are 10-14 years old and are installed well withing manufacturers required specifications.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

titanoman said:


> Most 3-tab is 20yr.


Very few 3 tabs get installed around here anymore, but the only ones stocked carry a 25 yr warranty. I think there are some 20 yr shingles still available in limited color selection (black primarily) as special order.

I just looked at Certainteed's site and they only ship 25 and 30 yr 3 tabs to my area. Same shingles that used to have a 20 year warranty. Curious.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

seeyou said:


> Very few 3 tabs get installed around here anymore, but the only ones stocked carry a 25 yr warranty. I think there are some 20 yr shingles still available in limited color selection (black primarily) as special order.
> 
> I just looked at Certainteed's site and they only ship 25 and 30 yr 3 tabs to my area. Same shingles that used to have a 20 year warranty. Curious.


Tells you what I know.
Yeah, that is curious...hmmm


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

seeyou said:


> Very few 3 tabs get installed around here anymore, but the only ones stocked carry a 25 yr warranty. I think there are some 20 yr shingles still available in limited color selection (black primarily) as special order.
> 
> I just looked at Certainteed's site and they only ship 25 and 30 yr 3 tabs to my area. Same shingles that used to have a 20 year warranty. Curious.



Funny how that work now. Shingle warranties growing...? :no:


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

Ycreek said:


> Oh, and by the way, good luck on getting 20, 25, or 30 years out of ANY asphalt roof. It can happen but it's rare.


A lot of it depends on where you live. I've certainly seen many go this long or longer, especially in climates where it doesn't get excessively hot!


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## Earnie (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm just a homeowner, not a roofer.

I would never install screw-down metal roofing to a house. Only standing seam. 

I would never install any roofing material over existing roofing material. I would always remove the old roofing to allow for sub-structure inspection and repair if necessary. I don't want to install a 50 year metal roof and not know the condition of the existing sub-structure.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Windows on Wash said:


> Is this a joke?
> 
> Please don't tell me that you think the primary reason for premature failure of shingle roofs is all installation issues.
> 
> We are getting ready to replace 2 roofs that are 10-14 years old and are installed well withing manufacturers required specifications.


IF they were installed within the manufacturers specifications, then I assume the roof is under warranty and that warranty would cover the replacement. 

And no, I don't think the primary reason for failure is installation, but it is one cause and a pretty common one too.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

cibula11 said:


> IF they were installed within the manufacturers specifications, then I assume the roof is under warranty and that warranty would cover the replacement.
> 
> And no, I don't think the primary reason for failure is installation, but it is one cause and a pretty common one too.


Do some research. The shingle warranties are prorated and that is what they pay IF there is a defect.

In different parts of the country a year of shingle life is much different. One bad winter in Colorado or MN is like 5 years in an area with little to no snow. Same can be said for extremely high prolonged temps.

I have dealt with warranty claims and I'm sure others have also. Yes, they can get out of the claim if shingles are installed correctly, but that is not the primary reason why a shingle won't last.

Usually any warranty claim is a manufacturer defect and they do not necessarily pay a full replacement.

If you have noticed, they are doing away with shingle year warranties. Most are now LIMITED lifetime warranty.

There are very few shingles made that will last the number of years on the bag. The first thing they tell you is that your region makes a HUGE difference in the amount of "years" they will last.

Most shingles will start to break down within 20 years here in MN. The newer shingles may or may not last that long. Most brands I would say they will break down even sooner.

Same goes for windows, siding, etc...Windows have a lifetime warranty, right? Most will be replaced within 20 years. Siding has a 50 year or lifetime warranty. Will it last that long? Probably not.

There is no way any manufacturer of anything that is out in the weather can be expected to give a timed warranty all across the country. Every region is completely different as far as weather conditions.

Unless you have dealt directly with a shingle manufacturer on multiple warranty claims, please take the advise of the people here who have.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

MJW said:


> Do some research. The shingle warranties are prorated and that is what they pay IF there is a defect.
> 
> In different parts of the country a year of shingle life is much different. One bad winter in Colorado or MN is like 5 years in an area with little to no snow. Same can be said for extremely high prolonged temps.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree. Well said.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Earnie said:


> I'm just a homeowner, not a roofer.
> 
> I would never install screw-down metal roofing to a house. Only standing seam.
> 
> I would never install any roofing material over existing roofing material. I would always remove the old roofing to allow for sub-structure inspection and repair if necessary. I don't want to install a 50 year metal roof and not know the condition of the existing sub-structure.


It is probably worth making the distinction between screw down roofing with exposed fasteners vs. a concealed screw down roof/fastener system.

Fastener gaskets are going to be maintenance items in the future and their longevity will depend largely on the installer skill.

I agree with you 100% about stripping a roof before applying a metal roof as well. :thumbup:



cibula11 said:


> IF they were installed within the manufacturers specifications, then I assume the roof is under warranty and that warranty would cover the replacement.
> 
> And no, I don't think the primary reason for failure is installation, but it is one cause and a pretty common one too.


Install issues are quite common but certainly not the primary reason for failures in my observation. 



MJW said:


> Do some research. The shingle warranties are prorated and that is what they pay IF there is a defect.
> 
> In different parts of the country a year of shingle life is much different. One bad winter in Colorado or MN is like 5 years in an area with little to no snow. Same can be said for extremely high prolonged temps.
> 
> ...


I would be willing to bet that we are going to see lessened lifespans out of these newer shingles. Call it a hunch but that is what I am feeling after seeing some of the newer products.


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## Ycreek (Aug 5, 2011)

Msradell said:


> A lot of it depends on where you live. I've certainly seen many go this long or longer, especially in climates where it doesn't get excessively hot!


You're probably right. The heat is totally excessive here.


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## tomdor (Jul 27, 2011)

Like others have already said--do your research. Nothing is ever as easy as they make it seem on youtube, but it's not rocket science either. 

After tons of research I chose a snap-lock standing seam roof for my house. (I'm in the Pacific NW) I have no prior experience roofing, but I'm also not mechanically challenged either. Plus, a friend of mine had a few 3-tab roofs under his belt. From my experience, metal takes sooo much longer to do that regular asphalt shingles. I ordered roofing for my whole house but was only able to finish 2 sections out of 4 last summer and plan on doing the other 2 this summer. But, to be fair my whole project has kind of been a nightmare. I had to re-sheath the whole thing and rebuild soffits which slowed us down considerably--this is a 100 year-old house.

The 3-tab that I removed was 15 years old and was installed incorrectly so it leaked all over the place. I get a lot of wind-driven rain in my location and another problem we have here with asphalt shingles is moss build up. My house has a 2-12 pitch on the north side so it's covered in moss. 

Anyways, if you chose a metal roof make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. If you don't know what you're doing, it's going to take you a very long time to get it done right. It's not impossible; it's just not what I would call easy. Sure, putting the panels down is fairly easy, but installing all the extra pieces takes a ton of time--gable trim, ridge cap, sidewall & endwall flashing, chimney flashing. This is where it gets technical and I can tell you from experience I had to make 3 different chimney flashing pieces before I was satisfied with my cuts. 


Good luck & be safe.


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## tomdor (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh, one more thing. Although a metal roof may last longer than asphalt, it's by no means maintenance free.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

tomdor said:


> Oh, one more thing. Although a metal roof may last longer than asphalt, it's by no means maintenance free.


Nice pictures and install. 

I commend you on the DIY spirit and attacking that job.

Nothing is ultimately maintenance free (i.e. you should always make sure that the roof is clear of debris, damage, etc).

That being said, there certainly are some metal roofs that have no recommended maintenance intervals and do not require re-sealing, coating, or any other maintenance.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Anyone else remember the old Midas Muffler commercial with the Model T?
Storms and poor installation included... most houses will be sold before an issue comes up.
The shingle makers know this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFOWdIPQImk&feature=related

as for metal roof... "standing seam" 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wr1DelYqTE


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

TarheelTerp said:


> Anyone else remember the old Midas Muffler commercial with the Model T?
> Storms and poor installation included... most houses will be sold before an issue comes up.
> *The shingle makers know this.*


True. That is what they are counting on for sure, but the warranty is transferable.

Most steel roofing only has a warranty on the finish.


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## tomdor (Jul 27, 2011)

Windows on Wash said:


> Nice pictures and install.
> 
> I commend you on the DIY spirit and attacking that job.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Windows on Wash. Although at times that project was a giant pain in the  the sense of satisfaction and feeling at the end of the day was priceless. Sure beats pushing papers at the office IMO...


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