# Replacement windows worth it?



## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have a house that was built in the 50's and I've been scraping the interior of my wood windows and repainting. During this process I've realized I probably have some work to do to the outside next summer. I'm debating if it's worth my time repairing my existing wood windows with storm windows with replacement vinyl windows. I haven't done much research, but I'd go with low e argon filled glass. How much savings have people realized in replacement windows? I live in Wisconsin so I have a wide range of temperatures.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Depends on a myriad of factors:


Do you like the look of the wood windows
Do the storms seal tightly and work well
Are the wood exteriors beginning to rot and require regular repair work
As a general rule, replacing a single pane/storm window (assuming they function and seal properly) with a newer double pane sealed IGU with low-e/argon will have a long term payback (i.e. 10+ years). That being said, most storms don't work that well and customers are considering replacement windows for other reasons (maintenance, ease of cleaning, aesthetic improvements, etc).


From purely a ROI standpoint on the energy, there are a whole host of other things that you can do to the home that will pay themselves back exponentially faster so I would look there if that was your rationale.


The more you can tell me about your reasoning, the more I can recommend the right course of action.


Where in WI are you located?


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## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

All good points to consider. In general, if the existing frames are solid, no rot, replacement windows are considerably less expensive(less labor than new construction windows). Avoid big box cheapy windows!!! If some one says they can replace your windows for $100 ea, RUN away!!!!

There are other types besides white vinyl, so look around. Definitely consider high efficiency glass options.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Do not call Sears, Home Depot, Lowes for quotes unless you get a kick out of being sticker shocked. There pricing in most cases is double or more then the prices I've been quoting for the same size and style window.
Installing a replacement window only requires simple hand tools and there DIY 101 to install.
Every window company has differant grades of windows they make so watch out for the low ball price, make sure it's apples to apples.
I use Simonton or Wincor windows and have never had a call back for air leaks or fogged up windows.
Once there in you should notice a big differance in lower outside sound, the roof will feel warmer because there's no more leaking air.
If you take the time to remove the old casing and remove the window weights (if you have them) and fill that big hole with fiberglass insulation you will get much better results.
If you also have someone come in and wrap the window frames on the out side there will be zero maintince on that whole window unit.
In about the time it takes you to sand, scrape, prime, reglaze and paint one window, someone could have install all new windows.
I know in my house the heating bill went down 25% by just replacing the windows.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

I live north of milwaukee. The storms look like they are in decent shape, but what should I look for? I know they need weatherstripping. Outside appearance with storms isn't great but tolerable. I don't believe the storms are coated glass, but I am unsure how to check. The windows do lock tight. They don't block much noise. They springs instead of weights on the side.

My gas bill for last month was $100. We do have a gas hot water heater and stove to. The house is 1385 sq ft.

The attic has a decent amount of insulation. Seems like two layers of rolled insulation. I don't have ice on my roof like my neighbor at least. My outlets all do have foam behind them. I do have one door that is bad. A chunk of the frame is missing so it just needs replacing. I plan on doing that next spring. What else should I look at? Do people recommend paying for a home energy audit or just buying one of those laser thermometers?


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## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

Your payback on replacing your windows could be considerably sooner than 10 years. Older, non-thermal windows are the largest source of heat loss in a house by a wide margin (assuming the house is properly insulated and has no egregious air leaks). The triple track add-on storm windows are virtually worthless in terms of insulation and are no comparison to modern thermal windows.

As Joe mentioned it's not that hard and in terms of labor it's far more efficient to replace then to renovate. It's even faster if you don't try and save and reuse your interior trim. In a 50's house it's probably not that unique/unusual either. I would just rip it off and replace with new.

There are a zillion web tutorials, video and step-by-step, on the process for installing replacement windows.

And yeah, don't have the big boxes install your windows.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

I was going to install them myself. I usually just take my time and figure things out and it eventually gets quicker to do. What brands would people recommend? Are the American craftsman 8500 with low e glass any good?


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## jjackson (Jun 1, 2011)

@bryanp22 American craftsman makes several series of windows. The higher the series the more bells and whistles. What part of the country are u in....that can play into what u really need


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Nothing by that company is very good imo. If you are looking at buying from a box store, the upper end Simontons at HD are about the best you'll get, although purchasing through a supply house or cash and carry from a window dealer will make higher quality products available. In vinyl, Softlite, Okna, Gorell, and Sunrise are pretty much the cream of the crop. Simonton and PlyGem premium are solid mid-range options.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Ironlight said:


> Older, non-thermal windows are the largest source of heat loss in a house by a wide margin (assuming the house is properly insulated and has no egregious air leaks)


I'd add that this statement is not true in most cases. Very few homes are properly insulated and air sealed. Not to say that windows are not a wise investment, certainly they can be, but when it comes to bang for the buck in pure energy savings, the vast majority of homes have other areas to address first.


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## ratherbefishing (Jan 13, 2011)

We replaced 50's era aluminum frame casements (with aluminum framed storms) with vinyl replacements about 7-8 years ago. I don't think the heating bill went down that much, but the house is much more comfortable; less drafts and no ice cold window frames.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Just to add..... With a house that age, take a look at the EPA regulations on lead paint and RRP. Believe in this or not, it's still good practice to keep things clean. A simple test kit will be a good investment.

Keep in mind, any company installing windows on pre-1978 homes must be properly licensed and trained with the EPA reg's.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Only thing to add to MJW's post is to check with your individual state to see if the cheap test kits that you can buy are valid. Here in WI , they are not.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

What are people's experiences with replacement windows when the original window frame remains compared to replacing the whole window and frame? As long as the replacement window is installed and caulked properly is it almost as efficient as a whole new window frame?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Yes and no.

Air tightness can be the same, however, the thermal performance of that opening (i.e. window and wall around it) will not be the same if you have something like a steel pan window.

If it is just a wood pocket window, the performance can be made near identical with inserts vs. full tear outs.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

+1 to WoW. A full tear-out would always be ideal, but when the existing frame is watertight and in good shape, it becomes difficult to justify the added expense in comparison to a properly installed insert. Unfortunately, inserts get a bad rep by the guys running around slapping them in at 20 minutes a pop.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Here are a couple pictures of the exterior. It mostly shows the flashing and storm windows. Any idea why they have such a large area around the window? I've noticed this on a couple of other houses in my area that have the same type of siding as me. I think it's steel but please correct me if I am wrong. We like the look o houses where the siding is closer to the window and doesn't have this big frame of flashing around the window. Is that just because of the siding type? I've seen vinyl is much closer. I am leaning towards trying to fix these windows for now if it can be done. Any tips for removing the caulk shown in the photo. It badly needs to be recaulked and the outside wood window trim scrapped and repainted. The lower left seems to be pretty open to the elements since the caulk is cracked. Should I try and remove the flashing to see if anything is damaged or just caulk the gap?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Where is the leak showing itself?

I don't see any of the screen track weepers or frame weepers on the lower section. Wouldn't be the first time they have been covered up.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

It looks like you have conventional wood windows with aluminum storms... and a terrible, terrible caulking job.
On appearance, it looks like standard brickmold that was capped in aluminum. Nothing out of the ordinary. Unless you are replacing he siding, there is really no way to eliminate the trim (although it could be redone). I'd add that you may see siding right up against the windows on newer homes, but that is done to save the cost of the extra material and labor, not because it is a desirable look.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Duh...for me.

Not sure what I was looking at?:huh:

Caulking work is pretty terrible so that is a clear indication of installer skill. We see more windows that leak after capping work is done (usually by siding installers) than anything.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Okay so any recommendations for removing the old caulk? Is it just a manual effort with a puffy knife and utility knife


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Generally, yes, along with some solvents. Yours is pretty smeared up though, you really have your work cut out for you... Is your aluminum "chaulking" (you wipe your finger on it and paint dust comes off)? 
If you don't want to replace the windows or the trim anytime soon, you might just want to clean it up as best you can, then give it a new coat of paint and caulk.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes it is chaulking. Actually all my siding is. The plan is to replace windows and siding but it might be a year or two so I just want it properly sealed in the mean time. I guess what is most ideal to less ideal in dealing with this. We are unsure on type of replacement siding or windows right now and just want to repaint the windows, and recaulk for now if possible. If I need to replace window trim I guess let me know what materials I need so I can see if that is in our budget. I plan on doing all the restoration work myself. In the future i expect to replace the windows myself, but will probably hire someone to do the siding.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

If budget allows, replacement of siding and windows at the same time is ideal. It allows for a full-tear out with less work. 
On replacing the trim, you would need to rent a brake (and learn how to use it), and purchase a roll or 2 of trim coil (roughly $75 per roll). Or, you could always hire someone to do a new wrap/caulk. Around here that runs around $60-$90 per window depending on options. 
The cheapest thing would be a paint job, but you'd probably want some advice from a painting pro on how to prep that chaulking aluminum... not my area of expertise :no:.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Okay thanks for the info. We were planning on getting quotes this summer so we had a saving goal anyway. Maybe I can replace some windows this summer and some the next. Anything special I should watch for when replacing the windows? For the ones I need to just caulk till I can afford new ones any recommendations on a solvent to remove the old caulk?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

If you are pulling the siding or not, just get rid of everything that is wrapped there and put in new construction windows. You'll be way better off.

If doing new siding, the new windows will be easy.
If not doing the siding, you can use some PVC boards or some cedar. I would recommend getting away from the old brick mould and aluminum wrap. That really isn't the modern way to do windows, IMO. Much better products out there now.

BTW, if that wrap would have been done correctly, it wouldn't hardly need any caulking.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Have any pictures of the newer way of doing it? If I do go with new construction windows I worry about timing. If I did them myself it seems like it may take me awhile. How do I deal with the siding or molding around the window between the time of me getting the windows replaced and hiring someone to do siding.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Here is one I did (siding, roof, soffit, fascia's) with 1x4's and wrapped with aluminum coil. Just imagine the aluminum wrapped 1x as an Azek (or similar) board. If you don't know what that is, just do a search. Certainteed has something similar also. Of course do proper flashing, taping, and insulating. A new construction window may cause you to do new trim and jambs inside also, but well worth it in the end.

These are all just suggestions, so you can make up your own mind. I think most will agree that new construction windows are best especially if already planning on doing siding.

Your timeline will definitely make a difference on what you do and what you can handle yourself.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I did that job about 5 years ago or so. I'm terrible for taking pics and don't have near what some of these other guys have. I'm sure someone will post you some pics of proper flashing and such if need be.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

MJW you did all that yourself? Was that the first time you had replaced windows and siding? How long did it take you?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

bryanp22 said:


> MJW you did all that yourself? Was that the first time you had replaced windows and siding? How long did it take you?


I'm not a diy'er. I do this for a living. That dormer (in it's entirety) took about an hour or so. I didn't replace the window. It was only about 6 or 7 years old at the time.

That job was a storm damage job. It consisted of roofing, siding, and fascia. This dormer faced the road and driveway, so the homeowner wanted to dress it up a bit.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Nice work MJW!



MJW said:


> Here is one I did (siding, roof, soffit, fascia's) with 1x4's and wrapped with aluminum coil. Just imagine the aluminum wrapped 1x as an Azek (or similar) board. If you don't know what that is, just do a search. Certainteed has something similar also. Of course do proper flashing, taping, and insulating. A new construction window may cause you to do new trim and jambs inside also, but well worth it in the end.
> 
> These are all just suggestions, so you can make up your own mind. I think most will agree that new construction windows are best especially if already planning on doing siding.
> 
> Your timeline will definitely make a difference on what you do and what you can handle yourself.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

My fiancé asked me why our windows have almost a set back look compared to some neighbors. From the pictures I posted earlier can anyone confirm why that is? Is it just how the siding and windows were trimmed?


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Yours is very conventional for the age of your home. Is it possible that your neighbors have newer homes, ie: newer windows installed with a nailing fin? That type of install will have a jamb extension and look more "set back" from the inside rather than the outside... It usually has to do with the type of window, but the trim and other factors can play a role as well.


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