# Sump pump pit water level --- problem



## ScottR

You should not worry.

The switch must sit above the pump's intake so that the pump motor doesn't burn out (it needs to have water going through it whenever it's running). So there will always be at least a couple of inches of water in the pit (unless you're going through a dry spell and no water is coming in).

The fact that the water rises when you unplug the pump, and stays at that same level with the pump plugged in is a good sign. It means the pump is doing its job. 

BTW - I was only able to find this pump with a "WaterSense" switch. Either way, the principle is the same as above for most sump pumps, float or switch.


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## handy man88

de12 said:


> Should the sump pump pit always contain certain level water? I noticed that the sump pump pit has water always keep the same doesn't matter how often the sump pump pump out the water. Even there is no rain, the sump pump is still keep pump out the water in every minute. But if I turn the power off to stop the sump pump running, the water level in the pit seems increase slowly (maybe fill up the pit about two day). I have a "SSP-1000 1HP sump pump w/microswitch" installed and there is no way to adjust the switch.
> 
> Should I worry about it? Anyone have any idea or suggestion? Thanks in advance.


Why is the pit continuing to fill even with no rain? Is your AC condensate dumping into the pit?


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## Termite

handy man88 said:


> Why is the pit continuing to fill even with no rain? Is your AC condensate dumping into the pit?


Happens in a lot of circumstances. Lawn irrigation, ground water, springs, leaky pipes, etc.


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## handy man88

thekctermite said:


> Happens in a lot of circumstances. Lawn irrigation, ground water, springs, leaky pipes, etc.


With ground water/springs, there's nothing you can do about that, but if the homeowner has issues with water coming into the pit b/c of the irrigation system, leaky pipes, etc, then that needs to be proactively addressed.


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## concretemasonry

Do you have a check valve on the discharge line immediately above the sump?

If not, water in the line can flow back into the sump to increase the number of times the pump runs since you are pumping much of the water several times. - It is called "short circuiting".


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## de12

handy man88 said:


> With ground water/springs, there's nothing you can do about that, but if the homeowner has issues with water coming into the pit b/c of the irrigation system, leaky pipes, etc, then that needs to be proactively addressed.


Thanks all for your reply.
One thing that I cannot figure out is that where the water come from.
The sump pump pump out about 6 gallon water every minute --- 24 hours --- never stop (RIDGID SSP-1000 sump pump with "WaterSense" switch), the water level in the pit come back as almost exactly same level as it before. After I unplug the sump pump, I cannot see any water come from INLET PIPE and the pit seems doesn't connect to any house water pipe, but the water level of pit increase slowly after a few hours.

Does sump pump pit suppose to seal for out side and only take the water that come from the INLET PIPE? If the water doesn't come from the INLET PIPE, then where water come from. Does the underground water leak into pit or any other resorce? Thanks for your help.


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## concretemasonry

de12 -

Very often, sump pits have some holes in the sides or bottoms. This is done to lower the ground water level (over time) a little below the inlet elevation. This will help the drain tile collection system to work better when you have big storms or spring rains/water.

Your system seems to be working well, but you should look for leaks, gutters/downspouts, landscaping to see if there is an unusual water source.


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## handy man88

de12 said:


> Thanks all for your reply.
> One thing that I cannot figure out is that where the water come from.
> The sump pump pump out about 6 gallon water every minute --- 24 hours --- never stop (RIDGID SSP-1000 sump pump with "WaterSense" switch), the water level in the pit come back as almost exactly same level as it before. After I unplug the sump pump, I cannot see any water come from INLET PIPE and the pit seems doesn't connect to any house water pipe, but the water level of pit increase slowly after a few hours.
> 
> Does sump pump pit suppose to seal for out side and only take the water that come from the INLET PIPE? If the water doesn't come from the INLET PIPE, then where water come from. Does the underground water leak into pit or any other resorce? Thanks for your help.


Sounds like one experiment you may want to consider is to shut off the water at the main and see if your pit continues to fill.

If it does, it is either coming from the supply side before the valve, or ground/spring water.


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## ftasudbury

*Level of water in sump pit?*

My sump pit fill up to a 1 foot then just sits there. I've move the float so the pump pumps out the water but it fill up to a 1 foot again. Should I set the float to keep pumping out that foot of water. How much water should or could be in your pit. It look like the water table is about 1 foot so if I ajust it to pump it will be pumping every hour. Right now it sits with about a foot of water and pumps every 4 or 5 hrs.

I have a hard time putting things into words so if you have any question please ask.


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## AllanJ

>>> sits there

You may have a "normal" or "ambient" grouind water level that you can keep pumping forever (with the pump on more than 60% of the time) and also if you turn the pump off completely during dry weather the water does not keep rising up into your basement.

You can set the floats and switch on your pump so it runs only when the level rises somewhat above that "normal" and shuts off when the water is brought down to near that "normal" level. This may result in much reduced pump running.

That "normal" level could well be a foot deep. Under the circumstances you and I described, leave that foot of water there.

The floats need a high (turn on) and low (turn off) that are not too close together. If the "normal" level is close to the basement floor, you may have to let the pump keep going until the water goes a few inches below "normal" so the the switch snaps on and off cleanly. If conditions are not too wet, the water will rise back to normal, halfway between the on and off positions and the pump will wait until the next rise of a few more inches to come on.


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## ftasudbury

*thx for the reply*

thank you









AllanJ said:


> >>> sits there
> 
> You may have a "normal" or "ambient" grouind water level that you can keep pumping forever (with the pump on more than 60% of the time) and also if you turn the pump off completely during dry weather the water does not keep rising up into your basement.
> 
> You can set the floats and switch on your pump so it runs only when the level rises somewhat above that "normal" and shuts off when the water is brought down to near that "normal" level. This may result in much reduced pump running.
> 
> That "normal" level could well be a foot deep. Under the circumstances you and I described, leave that foot of water there.
> 
> The floats need a high (turn on) and low (turn off) that are not too close together. If the "normal" level is close to the basement floor, you may have to let the pump keep going until the water goes a few inches below "normal" so the the switch snaps on and off cleanly. If conditions are not too wet, the water will rise back to normal, halfway between the on and off positions and the pump will wait until the next rise of a few more inches to come on.


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## emre

I have a similar problem, I sump pump will cycle about 4 times in a minute. I figured out that the water level will stabilize at about 13" from the bottom of the pit. The sump pump pit is 24" deep. My question is if there is harm, for example that moisture could developed, if we let the water go and stand as high at about half-way in the pit? 

Is there a recommended distance to keep the water below the basement slab?


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## handy man88

emre said:


> I have a similar problem, I sump pump will cycle about 4 times in a minute. I figured out that the water level will stabilize at about 13" from the bottom of the pit. The sump pump pit is 24" deep. My question is if there is harm, for example that moisture could developed, if we let the water go and stand as high at about half-way in the pit?
> 
> Is there a recommended distance to keep the water below the basement slab?


You probably want to keep the water below the drain tile.


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## coocoobe101

*water level problem*

its a good idea to have some water in your pit--
you never want to suck out the crap thats there at the bottom--
i have seen many pumps have their impellers stuck--
from a rock or other solid object--
i recommend installing it on a 3inch high brick about 9inches wide
make sure the vibration from the pump--
does not move off of the brick--thats what you want to do--


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## coocoobe101

*water is still filling up pit after rain*



de12 said:


> Should the sump pump pit always contain certain level water? I noticed that the sump pump pit has water always keep the same doesn't matter how often the sump pump pump out the water. Even there is no rain, the sump pump is still keep pump out the water in every minute. But if I turn the power off to stop the sump pump running, the water level in the pit seems increase slowly (maybe fill up the pit about two day). I have a "SSP-1000 1HP sump pump w/microswitch" installed and there is no way to adjust the switch.
> 
> Should I worry about it? Anyone have any idea or suggestion? Thanks in advance.


answer:there is a water table under everyones home--
if you have a high water table under your home--
water will come into your drain tile and still fill the pit--
in my experience it happens when your home is the low one--
in your block or in the area--thats why it is always good to be on a hill--that way your neighbor will get the water--and you wont--
another reason is that the grading of dirt or grass outside your house is tilting toward your house--it should tilt away from your house--that also applys to your water coming off your gutters-always get water at least 10 feet away from the house


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## Daniel Holzman

The turn on level for your pump may be set as close as 4 inches to the bottom of the slab. Most people set the float to turn the pump on when the water is about 6 inches from the bottom of the slab. The pump turns off when the water has dropped about 8 or 10 inches from the high water level. For an 18 inch deep sump (pretty common), the pump turns on about 12 or 14 inches above the floor, and turns off about 4 inches above the floor. The set points are adjusted by setting the float switch appropriately, I have never seen a non-adjustable float switch, but it sounds like one of the posters had one, so I guess they exist. The key point is that you should never run the pump dry (previously noted), and there is no need to keep pumping if the static water level will not rise any closer than 4 inches to the slab. Pumping costs you money in terms of electricity and wear on your pump, no need to do it unnecessarily.


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## AllanJ

handy man88 said:


> You probably want to keep the water below the drain tile.


I'm not convinced yet.

The perimeter drain system and sump pump create an artificial water table under the house that is lower than the natural water table. If the natural water table is above basement floor level then the system must do this.

If during dry weather the pit sits partially full then the natural water table is below floor level but could be above drain tile level while the pump sits idle. You can optionally set the pump to come on at lower levels and create an artificial water table below drain tile level but here the pump will be working more of the time.

As far as dampness in the basement caused by water slowly evaporating from the pit goes, the same amount of evaporation takes place whether the water is 4 inches deep or 24 inches deep.


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## emre

I have never seen water coming from the drain tile pipes. The water is coming quickly from the bottom of the pit which apparently has holes. I can see some bubbling at the surface of the water while it is going up. The rise will slow at about 10", and eventually stop at 13" right below the drain tile pipes.

This happens when we get rain, the sump pump will cycle about 4 times in a minute. Otherwise, depending on the season, it could cycle anywhere from couple times in an hour to far apart in a week in dry conditions.

I don't mind having water in the pit at 13" instead of 3". My concern is the hydrostatic pressure and the damage that would result to the slab or the footing of the house. I have also seen in another house moisture at the joint of the slab and foundation walls from having a sump pump set too high.

It sounds like that it might be fine let the water rise half way in the pit, at about 12" from the bottom of the pit, that would leave the water below the drain tile pipes and at 12" from the top of the pit.


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## handy man88

coocoobe101 said:


> its a good idea to have some water in your pit--
> you never want to suck out the crap thats there at the bottom--
> i have seen many pumps have their impellers stuck--
> from a rock or other solid object--
> i recommend installing it on a 3inch high brick about 9inches wide
> make sure the vibration from the pump--
> does not move off of the brick--thats what you want to do--


The inlets to the pump are typically at least 1" off the ground.

Elevating your pump is generally restricted by the height at which your float initiates your pump. This is especially important if you have a tethered float vice a vertical float.


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## AllanJ

emre said:


> I don't mind having water in the pit at 13" instead of 3". My concern is the hydrostatic pressure and the damage that would result to the slab or the footing of the house. I have also seen in another house moisture at the joint of the slab and foundation walls from having a sump pump set too high..


The water table in dirt may be different from the water table in air (the water level in the pit) due to capillary action (wicking). So in that other house, the pit level might have to be maintained several inches below floor level to avoid seeing moisture at floor level elsewhere in the basement.

Also depending on the kind of dirt (clay, sand, etc.) the water table could be higher at one end of the house compared with the other. This may require running the sump pump more to depress the water table in the vicinity of the pit and hope the water table at the other end of the house goes down far enough too.


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## coocoobe101

*water level problem*

hi--water seems to always be a problem no matter where you live--
in its simplest terms--water should be routed as far away from your home as possible---builders have used drain tile to route
water into your sump pump basin from around the house--
it is then re-routed to a location as far from the house as you can
with a sump pump-- as for how much water should be left in the basin is not a big deal--common sense rules-there are a few things you can do to slow down this process----proper soil grading around your house
should be angled at 20-30 degrees going away from your house--
having enough down spouts to handle rain flow is a good idea--
down spouts should be routed into drain tile and exited as far from the house as possible--again get the water around your home
OUT--OUT--OUT as far as you can--


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## AllanJ

coocoobe101 said:


> ... down spouts should be routed into drain tile and exited as far from the house as possible----


But not into the same drain tile runs that feed into the sump pump pit (the sump) relying on the pump to get the water up and away.


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## coocoobe101

*drain tile*

hi allan
you are absolutely correct
separate drain beginning at the downspout running away from the house
i guess i should have been more specific
i just worked at a house in which one corner downspout was connected outside and joined to the sump pump discharge line--and 4" draintile carried the water away from the house--the old 2 in 1-----Artie


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## Mike Soloway

Hi there

I also want to know about the correct water level setting. I have two drain pipes going into the pit, one is an inch or so higher than the other. I just moved into this house from the city (so I'm not used to these things) and the pump's current setting (I believe it's called a tethered float - two floats one high and one low for on and off) has the pump turning on when the water is about five inches from the top of the basement floor. One drain pipe is completely submerged at this point and the other is about 1/4 filled.

Should I set the pump to allow the drain water never to get submerged? If it is submerged, isn't the water that's supposed to be pumped out essentially being sent back along into the pipe causing a bit of a backup? When the pump gets rid of the water, the drain pipe that was submerged dribbles water out consistently only to eventually fill the pit again. Being winter and everything frozen, it doesn't fill as fast, but in the summer, it was running quite a bit.

BTW this setting was not what the previous homeowner had it at. That pump burned out when I bought the house and they had a spare ready to go. So, I just kinda dropped it in as it was (and it's raised on a brick).

Thanks!
Mike


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## handy man88

Mike Soloway said:


> Hi there
> 
> I also want to know about the correct water level setting. I have two drain pipes going into the pit, one is an inch or so higher than the other. I just moved into this house from the city (so I'm not used to these things) and the pump's current setting (I believe it's called a tethered float - two floats one high and one low for on and off) has the pump turning on when the water is about five inches from the top of the basement floor. One drain pipe is completely submerged at this point and the other is about 1/4 filled.
> 
> Should I set the pump to allow the drain water never to get submerged? If it is submerged, isn't the water that's supposed to be pumped out essentially being sent back along into the pipe causing a bit of a backup? When the pump gets rid of the water, the drain pipe that was submerged dribbles water out consistently only to eventually fill the pit again. Being winter and everything frozen, it doesn't fill as fast, but in the summer, it was running quite a bit.
> 
> BTW this setting was not what the previous homeowner had it at. That pump burned out when I bought the house and they had a spare ready to go. So, I just kinda dropped it in as it was (and it's raised on a brick).
> 
> Thanks!
> Mike


Sump pumps with tethered floats aren't meant to be adjusted, even though they can be.

If you want a shorter water height depth at which the pump turns on, you might want to consider a vertical float sump pump. I believe for the flowmaster, the tethered trips at 14" while the vertical trips at 8".

In any case, after the water is pumped out, the residual water that runs into the pit is probably what was in the corrugated pipe as the pit filled.

The rule of thumb generally is to set the float to trip right before the drain pipes start fillingj/backing up. That allows the water to be evacuated ASAP.

Sump pumps generally trip and pump based on a timer...not based on how much water is left in the pit.


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## Mike Soloway

Thanks for the quick reply.

So basically...having one and 1/4 of my drain pipes submerged is not such a good thing...


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## meboatermike

Well I am going to jump into this after resisting as long as I could :whistling2: I have lived in the "country" my whole life, as long as the water level under your slab/in your sump pit stays below the bottom of the slab level I would not consider it to be a problem. Your drain lines can be submerged or partially under or all out, it really does not matter.

The sump pump should be adjusted and run to keep the water at that level. The main purpose for sump pumps is to keep the water table in the soil below your house from rising up to the point where your cellar floor gets wet. In a "perfect" world you would have a sump pit but it would be connected to a drain line that allows for any water to be drained away by gravity to a lower point outside on your property.

The lower you pump your pit the more the pump will run. If your pit will reach equilibrium with out running the pump except for rain events then let the water sit there.


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## handy man88

Mike Soloway said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> So basically...having one and 1/4 of my drain pipes submerged is not such a good thing...


I don't think this would cause harm depending on the rainstorm or how much water is getting in, but generally speaking, you want to get rid of any water as soon as possible. What is the benefit ever of having standing water? There is none.

It'd be interesting to know where is the inlet for the one drain pipe that fills first. Once that pipe is full, there could be a backup somewhere as the 2nd pipe starts to fill.

It's interesting that they don't fill at the same rate, so that means the 2nd pipe probably has a higher inlet height.


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## Scuba_Dave

If you live in a high water table area such as I do you can pump 24x7 & never get rid of all the ground water

So it depends upon the area & setup

One house as a kid there was an underground stream
They poured a cement floor......it flooded
So they built another floor about 2' up
There was constant water between the 2 floors

So again....multiple pumps could be run 24x7 & you would never get rid of the water


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## Mike Soloway

ahhhh... ok, I'm understanding the "water table" and sump pump after doing a little reading last night. As far as standing water, while I understand there should be some, I was also reading that having too much in the pit will cause humidity issues in the basement, or backed up water will cause water to seep into the basement floor or through the wall (it's old clay weeping tile around the house).

I sat around the pit for a bit last night to watch it rise (not the most exciting). I noticed a few mosquitos in one of the drains...so I got rid of them...I guess they found a good place to hibernate with standing water. After buying the house earlier this year, I was doing renovations all summer so bugs got in easily. Thankfully I've gotten rid of a lot...and the house is really clean.

The reason I ask about the pump is that I plan on turning that room into my theater... so I may make a new cinder block wall inside that room should the pump ever overflow, the water will rush into the laundry room area rather than damaging the room, or, keep the pump in the room... neighbours say that they never get flooded, especially with a back up pump and a generator should we ever lose power...

...hmmmm...


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## bodom

*High water table, but low pump*



emre said:


> I have never seen water coming from the drain tile pipes. The water is coming quickly from the bottom of the pit which apparently has holes. I can see some bubbling at the surface of the water while it is going up. The rise will slow at about 10", and eventually stop at 13" right below the drain tile pipes.
> 
> This happens when we get rain, the sump pump will cycle about 4 times in a minute. Otherwise, depending on the season, it could cycle anywhere from couple times in an hour to far apart in a week in dry conditions.
> 
> I don't mind having water in the pit at 13" instead of 3". My concern is the hydrostatic pressure and the damage that would result to the slab or the footing of the house. I have also seen in another house moisture at the joint of the slab and foundation walls from having a sump pump set too high.
> 
> It sounds like that it might be fine let the water rise half way in the pit, at about 12" from the bottom of the pit, that would leave the water below the drain tile pipes and at 12" from the top of the pit.


I am having the same issues and I have an idea of what I want to do, and I thought I would ask around.

For my situation, I have two pits and each of them have holes at the bottom where ground water is always running up. My pump runs all the time and right now it's raining, so it's pumping about once a minute to 90 seconds. I bought this house last year and this isn't normal, so I'm wanting to fix it this year. There was a period last year where we got no rain for 3 weeks, yet my pump was running once every 30 minutes. On average, it's about once every 5-6 minutes.

I have a submersible Zoeller pump and the float is not adjustable. I just measured the water level in the backup pit and it's at 14". I'm going on a limb here to estimate that the water level is about 11-15" at any given time. The problem is that the pump is lower than the natural water level, hence why it runs all the time. The pit is about 24" deep.

Here is what I have:



Code:


[FONT=Courier New]
    backup pit          primary pit

|                |   |                |
|              |"|"""|"|              |
|              |_|___|_|              | drain tile
|                |   |              |"|""""""""""""|
|----------------|   |--------------|_|____________|
|  water level   |   |                |
|                |   |                |
|                |   |                |
|                |   |___________,O_up|
|     ,----.     |   |     ,----.     |
|    |backup|    |   |    |prmary|O dn|
|_ _ |______| _ _|   |_ _ |______| _ _|
  ^ ^        ^ ^       ^ ^        ^ ^
holes
[/FONT]





In the illustration, my drain tile sits around the resting water level. And if I turn off the pump, some water drains back into it. With the primary pump, you can clearly see that the natural water level is well above the pump. My pump tries to keep the level between the "O"s where I have labeled it up and dn. So I keep getting water entering from the bottom constantly and it's a losing battle. That's why it runs all the time.


Here is what I want to do.

1. Get an adjustable float switch.
2. Take the pump out and plug up the holes on the primary pit only.

Will this work?

Questions:
1. How should I adjust this? From above the drain tile just before the water spills to the other pit. And where should I set the bottom? Below the water level or go much lower (and let the ground water fill back up)?

2. Is it safe to plug up the holes on the primary pit. The holes may have been put there for a reason, and I figure if I only do one of the pits, then I shouldn't worry too much as the backup pit will still collect the water. Will the water level rise in the backup pit?

3. What type of float switch should I get? Tethered? Vertical? And if tethered, single or double? Or does it not matter? Will plugging the holes do the trick?


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## AllanJ

March 2010. Now I am convinced. Set the pump turn on at the level where the water just goes above the bottom lip of the lowest drain tile pipe feeding the pit. You can go a little higher if that greatly reduces the amount of pump running but the drain tile openings should be mostly above water.

The turn off should be as low as is practical.

The idea is that the drain tiles should not be full of water between pump starts. Otherwise more wicking of water into the soil above drain tile level all along the path of the drain tile (perimeter of the house) will occur. The scientific description is that the water table all along the perimeter does not get artificially lowered as much.

Do not plug the holes at the bottom of the pit.

Trying to keep the water level in the pit well below the level of the drain tiles will have no effect on the water table more than a few feet from the pit unless the soil (or sand) under your house is unusually porous.


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## bodom

I have a built in vertical float switch on my pump. I have something like this (I think):
http://www.zoellerpumps.com/ProductBenefit.aspx?ProductID=89


I saw a tethered float, but it works differently that I thought. I wish I could set the pump on to turn on around 13" high. Putting a stack of bricks 10" high seems impractical and unstable. Plus all the extra displacement with all those bricks.

Anyhow, you say plugging the holes is a bad idea, but is it still a bad idea if I just do it for the primary and keep the holes on the backup pit which will still allow the ground water to rise?

You say I shouldn't keep the water level above the drain tile, but also keeping the water level well below the drain tile level will have no effect.

If I raise my pump about 3 inches, it's still going to pump excess ground water.


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## Robbie245

*Backup sump pump*

All pumps have an ON level and an OFF level. This means it will turn on when the water gets to a certain height and will turn off at a certain depth of water.

Your situation sounds normal. To test your pump, run a garden hose inside the sump well. This also helps clean out any debris that may have built up.

You can drill holes in the sides and base of you sump pump container to let the water seep out into the ground when the water table drops back down.

Your pump will eventually break or wear out though. Instead of worrying about it, have a backup sump pump installed. These can run on regular electricity and/or an automobile size battery in case your power goes out.


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## AllanJ

How long does it take for the water to rise each inch from the turn off level?

If it takes a short time to rise the first inch and a long time to get from one inch below the drain pipe to actually reach the drain pipe then setting the turn on level far below the drain pipe can result in much more pump running.

Now if the rise time per inch is short all the way up until the drain pipe ends are submerged, and then the rise is much slower, then you have a dilemma. IMHO is is better to let the pump run more often rather than let the drain pipes become full for long periods of time. In a few cases you can compromise by setting the turn on level when one of the pipe ends is half submerged.

After choosing a turn on level, let the system run for at least two days of dry weather, for the entire foundation and perimeter drain system to stabilize, before deciding that the pump still runs too often.


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## bodom

Thanks for taking the time to try to help me with my problem. Like I said before, my pump runs all the time pumping water. Rain, sunshine, snow, whatever. It rained a half inch on Sun, Mar 13th and it's been sunny and dry since then. My pump is now running every 23 minutes. On Wed, it was about every 6 or 7 minutes. Yesterday it was around 15-18 minutes. We are due to get rain tomorrow, so it will go back to pumping every 2-3 minutes soon.

I did an experiment and I have determined that I'm NOT going to plug the holes. The water level in the backup was about 12.5 inches on Wednesday night, NO water was dripping in, I turned off the humidifier, and I unplugged the primary sump pump.

I woke up 5 hours later in the morning and went to go check. The water level rose up to over *16 inches* in the backup and the water level submerged the pump and into the drain tile. Why did it rise with no water coming in? I have no idea.

I plugged the pump back in and it pumped the water out. Afterwards, the water level went back down to 12.5 inches in the backup. It's still at 12.5 inches.

I know the following:

1. The primary pump *is* actually doing something to fight the ground water from going up. Plugging the primary holes will stop the primary pump from running, but the water level will keep rising. It'll eventually spill back in the primary pit and will solve nothing.

2. With no rain, why would the ground water level continue to rise? If my house was built on a spring, the water level should rise at a constant rate. But it's not.

I'm starting to think it's one of two things. I got a ton of ground water and maybe one of the storm drains may have a crack in it leading to excess ground water. The storm drain runs between my house and the next door neighbor, so that's a possibility. I'm built on a hill, but I still get excess water.

All I know right now is that I have a VERY SHAKY situation if my primary pump were to fail. The backup battery pump would run, but I would have to get another primary pump PRONTO, because it would run constantly and burn itself out quickly.

One other idea I'm going to try is work around the sidewalk. One of my gutters spills water on the sidewalk. And there appears to be gaps along the grass and sidewalk lines. I'm going to redirect this to the driveway. After that half inch of rain, it took 3 days until the water completely stopped dripping from the drain tile.


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## Shackler79

AllanJ said:


> March 2010. Now I am convinced. Set the pump turn on at the level where the water just goes above the bottom lip of the lowest drain tile pipe feeding the pit. You can go a little higher if that greatly reduces the amount of pump running but the drain tile openings should be mostly above water.
> 
> The turn off should be as low as is practical.
> 
> The idea is that the drain tiles should not be full of water between pump starts. Otherwise more wicking of water into the soil above drain tile level all along the path of the drain tile (perimeter of the house) will occur. The scientific description is that the water table all along the perimeter does not get artificially lowered as much.
> 
> Do not plug the holes at the bottom of the pit.
> 
> Trying to keep the water level in the pit well below the level of the drain tiles will have no effect on the water table more than a few feet from the pit unless the soil (or sand) under your house is unusually porous.


 
I'm wondering if this is my issue. My drain inlet is only about 6" above the bottom of the sump pump basin. The water level goes well above this in the basin before the sump pump turns on. I get a fair amount of seepage when it rains hard, and I've tried so many other things. 

So you think that by making my sump pump basin deeper this should take care of my issue? Thanks so much in advance....I've tried nearly everything.


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## AllanJ

A deeper pit will not reduce the total amount of water pumped but it can improve the timing, namely achieve fewer pump starts and longer runs between starts.

Particularly if your pump start point is set above where water starts to accumulate in the perimeter drain pipes, a small pit may result in the pump stopping while the drain pipes are still pouring (not that fast) into the pit. A few minutes later the drain pipes have emptied out but the pit is now half full again.

With a larger and/or deeper pit, the pit is not emptied out that fast (time wise) and by the time the pump stops, the drain pipes should have finished emptying themselves into the pit giving the pit a clean slate.


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## Shackler79

My sump pump pit is fairly deep, gets pretty full before the pump kicks on, which equals quite a bit of water.

My question has more to do with the tile drain inlet pipe being completely submerged. I'm wondering if the seepage that I get has to do with this inlet being submerged actually raises the artificial water table around my house causing the seepage. The inlet can get roughly 12-18" submerged before the pump kicks on.

Just wondering if lowering my pit to never allow the inlet pipe to get submerged might stop my seepage issue. Thanks so much in advance!


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## AllanJ

You should get less seepage about the basement if you set the pump to come on long before the drain pipe ends are submerged.

Digging the pit lower helps here so that there is also enough of a volume of water for the pump to work on so as not to get frequent short starts and stops.


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## bodom

I fixed a lot by moving one of the gutters away from the sidewalk and towards the driveway. Now I don't get the every 3-5 minutes of pumping. It's been cut to about every 25 minutes. When we got some torrential rain, my drain tile wasn't spilling water.


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## roy coronado

*help*

i have water comming from boiler room drain when i wash cloths


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## Sparks1

*Sump Pump runs every 2 - 3 minutes*

We installed a new sump pump today, the water level is about 7 inches lower than before and the pump runs every 2 - 3 minutes. Once the water goes out, it raises from the bottom again, the pump kicks on and the water level will drop about 3 inches and start all over again. This is not the first pump we have installed; we put on in about 8 years ago and everthing went fine. Any sugguestion?


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## AllanJ

Readjust the floats and switches.
1. So it turns on when the first drain tile opening into the pit has just begun to get submerged,
2. So it turns off when the pit is as empty as possible but not requiring the float to hit bottom, which could result in unreliable shutoff. (If you set the turn off so low that the pump starts to suck air, that will also cause unreliable shutoff.)


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## handy man88

AllanJ said:


> Readjust the floats and switches.
> 1. So it turns on when the first drain tile opening into the pit has just begun to get submerged,
> 2. So it turns off when the pit is as empty as possible but not requiring the float to hit bottom, which could result in unreliable shutoff.


For the most part, float activation is not recommended to be adjusted.

If one wants their pump to activate sooner....below the drain tile, they should consider a sump pump with a vertical float vice tethered float.


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## AllanJ

In order to give the sump pump a reasonable running time and a reasonable rest between runs, either you need a straight sided pit with a large surface area or a pump with a large start height / stop height adjustment together with a pit that is reasonably deep.

If the check valve in the outlet pipe leaks a little, it is not performing its function and water in the outlet pipe is falling back down. This consumes some of the space in the pit so less new water is needed to start the pump again (undesirable).

To reduce basement humidity that may be caused by the sump pump, you would put a lid on the pit. Whether the pit is almost empty or almost full does not affect the humidity.


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## handy man88

AllanJ said:


> In order to give the sump pump a reasonable running time and a reasonable rest between runs, either you need a straight sided pit with a large surface area or a pump with a large start height / stop height adjustment together with a pit that is reasonably deep.
> 
> If the check valve in the outlet pipe leaks a little, it is not performing its function and water in the outlet pipe is falling back down. This consumes some of the space in the pit so less new water is needed to start the pump again (undesirable).
> 
> To reduce basement humidity that may be caused by the sump pump, you would put a lid on the pit. Whether the pit is almost empty or almost full does not affect the humidity.


Pumps in general operate on a timer. Once the tethered float initiates the pump when the water level reaches the activation height, as soon as the circuit is open within the float as the water level drops, the pump will shut off in x seconds whether the pit is empty or not. I think this is a design feature that prevents the pump from continously pumping dry.

This is the same for vertical float pumps where the pump is activated as soon as the float hits the high point and then a timer determines when the pump stops no matter where the float is.


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## AllanJ

I didn't know that any sump pumps operate on a timer but if they did, then certain conditions can result in unnecessarily short on off cycles. If that model of pump is not adversely affected by short cycles then that is okay.


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## handy man88

AllanJ said:


> I didn't know that any sump pumps operate on a timer but if they did, then certain conditions can result in unnecessarily short on off cycles. If that model of pump is not adversely affected by short cycles then that is okay.


If you have a tethered float, that float has a metal ball inside that acts like a relay switch. The pump is activated when the float is at an angle (based on the water level) such that the metal ball falls backwards and completes the circuit that activates the pump.

Once the water level starts to drop, the ball slides the opposite way. In fact, it's probably not a timer, but just a simple relay switch that opens and closes depending on the position of the ball which depends on the water level in the pit.


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## CMGINSUGARGROVE

*Sump Pump Run alot*

I have a sump pump question.
I purchased a 10 year old home with a finished basement. There are no signs that there has ever been any water leakage. My sump basin contains 2 Wayne sump pumps, one 3/4hp and one 1hp. 
Because they're located under the bedroom, I noticed that the pump cycles for about 4-5 seconds every 5 minutes. When I looked in the pit I noticed that the weep tube had a pretty good flow, indicating to me at least, that the drain tile was doing what it was supposed to be doing. 
Just to see how high it would go, I switched off the pumps and let it fill up. The basin filled another 3 inches, then stopped. It is about 6 inches from the top of the basin and covers about half of the weep tube opening. 
My question is, Can I leave it at this level and adjust my sump float, or could this create more pressure and create another problem. 
In the spring I'll check the discharge pipe to make sure that the water isn't just circulating the water back to the drain tile, but for now I just would like to quiet the pumps.
Thanks


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## handy man88

CMGINSUGARGROVE said:


> I have a sump pump question.
> I purchased a 10 year old home with a finished basement. There are no signs that there has ever been any water leakage. My sump basin contains 2 Wayne sump pumps, one 3/4hp and one 1hp.
> Because they're located under the bedroom, I noticed that the pump cycles for about 4-5 seconds every 5 minutes. When I looked in the pit I noticed that the weep tube had a pretty good flow, indicating to me at least, that the drain tile was doing what it was supposed to be doing.
> Just to see how high it would go, I switched off the pumps and let it fill up. The basin filled another 3 inches, then stopped. It is about 6 inches from the top of the basin and covers about half of the weep tube opening.
> My question is, Can I leave it at this level and adjust my sump float, or could this create more pressure and create another problem.
> In the spring I'll check the discharge pipe to make sure that the water isn't just circulating the water back to the drain tile, but for now I just would like to quiet the pumps.
> Thanks


My gut tells me that it's not a good thing that your pump is running every 5 min. What is the source of the water?

Your pit is filling up to a certain level until it stops because the drain tile is starting to fill up. On the other end of that pipe, depending on which side has more head (e.g height) the water could leak out at the opposite location.


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## AllanJ

The pit fills up to a certain level and then stops (stabllizes) because that is where the water table is. For starters you can set the pump turn on level a little higher and the pump will rest for long periods of time (good).

But that stabilizing level can change depending on rainfall and also whether there is a long wet spell or a long dry spell.

Also, if the stabilizing happens only after the drain pipe ends are mostly or fully covered, you will change the hydraulic dynamics of the entire perimeter drain system (resaturate the soil all around the foundation to a higher level). It is possible to get seepage up onto the floor at the opposite side of the basement even when the pit did not overflow.

Should water get up onto the floor you will need to put the pump turn on level back down and let the pump run and maintain the level below the drain pipe openings for two whole days xxxx correction seven whole days before drawing conclusions that something else is wrong. After that you can experiment with the pump float levels again.

It is important that storm water and gutter water not accumulate near the foundation. Do not trench or excavate around the foundation to put in a layer of gravel or mulch for landscaping.


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