# Smelly paint - won't stop smelling



## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

It'll be two years in October. I painted a room with two coats of a zero VOC matte interior paint. A custom mixed color. Beautiful! But at around the time the smell should have been completely gone (a few days later) - it began to get worse and morphed into something I can only describe as paint with body odor (it was described differently by different people). 

As the season turned cold, and we had temperate dry air circulating, the smell disappeared, only to return with a VENGEANCE in the warm humid weather of the following spring-summer. We tried everything - space heaters, washing spots with various cleaners and solvents (no longer trying to save the painted walls) Nothing worked. We shut the door and prayed.

I won't go into the struggle with the manufacturer - and I have found websites where people have the same problem with other manufacturers anyway.

I've done plenty of painting in my 55 years, and we've painted every room in this house at least once since we moved in 10 years ago. Including this one. I've had several professionals in to give advice and estimates. Only one said he thought he'd dealt with the same issue. He said lab tests done by that manufacturer revealed a problem, but he wasn't privy to the results. The recommendation from all was BIN. 

So, we had two coats of BIN professionally applied. Three weeks later it was apparent that the paint smell was still noticeable (but reduced) so we had another coat put on. By then it was cold again, and the circulating cool dry air disguised the remaining smell. Everything went back in the room, with the three coats of BIN still the only thing on the walls (afraid to paint before another hot spell proved we were in the clear).

Of course, as you may have guessed by now - the room started stinking again when the weather got hotter and more humid. however, it's no where near as bad as it was in the summer a year ago.

Now I'm hiring another painter. On top of the two coats of synthetic BIN, and one coat of original BIN, he wants to try one coat of oil-based KILZ. And then finally, two coats of paint after that has set.

We're going ahead with this plan because we will not rip out drywall. The room will be turned to some other use if this latest attempt to conquer the smell doesn't work. The smell has never transferred to anything in the room. I personally believe it's some kind of bacteria. I dont' think anything else could cause the paint to stink after almost 2 years. Also, the paint never completely dried. You could wipe it off the walls with a dry paper towel. And it was rubbery.

This is a cautionary tale - not for any particular product. Because we'd used the very same brand and type of paint in another room - no problem. 

Just this: DO NOT get rid of your paint cans if you have any way to keep them until you're sure nothing like this is going on. 

IF the paint seems weird in any way (doesn't handle the way you should be able to expect) Call the manufacturer, and/or take it to the store.

IF the paint doesn't stop smelling in the customary amount of time - call the manufacturer and INSIST that a rep come and check it out. MAKE SURE that the report that goes back to the company coincides with the reality of your situation.

Don't wait for time to help you out. Don't believe that just because you've used a lot of different paints and never had a problem, that this can't be real and there must be some way you can fix it.

Don't expect the manufacturer to be helpful. That is, their first priority seems to be to deny culpability, and then liability. 

Well, this post started as a way to ask for any advice on a better solution that the one I've chosen. But it turned into advice for others.

Hope that's ok. 

Still open to any advice though


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Near impossible for it to be a paint issue after all that effort.
No location in your profile, no pictures of the outside of the house, no idea what type foundation vents, soffet vents, roof venting, lay of the land on the outside, how old the house is, what type foundation.
Yes all this can come into play with odor issues.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

"Near impossible for it to be a paint issue after all that effort."

And yet, that's exactly what it is. No smell before paint - smell after paint. Nothing else in room smells - only the walls. Other side of wall in hall has no smell. Other side of wall in bathroom has no smell. Attic above and basement below do not smell. No other room in the house smells. The smell appeared suddenly after painting, and was lessened after the paint was covered with BIN.

A professional from SERV-PRO, a company which specializes in dealing with odor remediation after fire, smoke, flood, and murders confirmed that the smell was not mold, or anything he could identify other than paint. He gave us a $1700 estimate to do several things, which basically included putting BIN on the walls after cleaning them (which we tried) and using a negative pressure ozone whatever thingamabob. I was told by a similar company that such measures were to deal with the smell itself, not the cause. That the value of those measures was covering the walls with primer. So we skipped the $1700 route and went straight to the BIN.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

But I appreciate you pointing out the many factors that can come into play when dealing with odors. I should have explained that those factors were ruled out early on.

Thanks!


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Most likely there was something on the wall that was activated during the painting.


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

simple way to prove it's the paint?

paint a large piece of cardboard. Then smell it after dry


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

pman6 said:


> simple way to prove it's the paint?
> 
> paint a large piece of cardboard. Then smell it after dry


LisaQ said: "Just this: DO NOT get rid of your paint cans if you have any way to keep them until you're sure nothing like this is going on."

I interpret that to mean that she no longer has the original can(s) of paint that caused the problem with smell. Painting the cardboard with paint from a new batch of the same kind of paint won't prove there was or wasn't a problem with the paint she used.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Most likely there was something on the wall that was activated during the painting.


With so many other things eliminated from the equation, this seems very plausible. Latex paint can act like a "wick" and "pull" odors through the drying paint film. Who knows what may have been on the walls before and even the pre-cleaning could have started the reactivation process. I've been at it for well over 30 years and I've never had a situation like this occur where a paint smell lasted for longer than a week or so. Not saying it can't happen, heaven knows paint companies are constantly under the gun to change to compliant paint formulas, but I would be very surprised if this ended up being a smell FROM the paint. It may have been CAUSED by the paint.........just one man's theory.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Behr again! WTH!

10....9....8....7....6.....5.....4.....3.....2.....1.....


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks to all for your replies.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

I'd like to respectfully suggest that people stay away from zero VOC paints. Online, I've learned that there are other people who've used (various brands) zero voc - and apparently are experiencing the same problem. Benjamin Moore suffered a class-action suit for this same problem.

http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-we...-moores-odorless-paint-stinks-lawsuit-claims/

Other people who used the same brand as me have noted the same problem as well. I used Olympic ICON zero VOC. For a real eye (or nose) -opener, visit this site:
http://www.edpaintingonline.com/blog/interior/getting-rid-of-paint-smell/#comment-57547

Of course, it's evident that not everyone at that site is having the same problem. AND there's no way to know over the inter-tubes what something smells like - there is a consistent theme here: zero-VOC is not zero-smell - and perhaps is more susceptible to whatever this problem is.

Thank you again so much everyone - and - since you all are on the "front lines" of DIYers - I'm glad to make you aware of my experience, no matter what it's source. It will be in your memory in case you hear something similar from someone else.

I will post here again as I go forward in trying to fix this, to let you know what transpires. Thanks again!


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

LisaQ said:


> I'd like to respectfully suggest that people stay away from zero VOC paints. Online, I've learned that there are other people who've used (various brands) zero voc - and apparently are experiencing the same problem. Benjamin Moore suffered a class-action suit for this same problem.
> 
> http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-we...-moores-odorless-paint-stinks-lawsuit-claims/
> 
> ...


There are several brands that are both o-voc and extremely low odor. Unfortunately you might have to venture out of your paint buying box to get them.
California Paints Elements or Envirotech and
Muralo Breathsafe are two that come to mind. Just remember that most lo-voc paints still have a fairly high concentration of ammonia. Ammonia is a voc complying solvent so they are allowed to use it and still call their paint "lo-voc". California and Muralo are two companies that won't cheapen their products just to sell them in the box stores, therefore they are not forced to use ammonia as a cheap additive in their paint formulations. Also, most of the primers you mention are mere shadows of what they were before they sold out to the box stores, so it doesn't surprise me that they did nothing to alleviate the smell issue.

That being said, BIN is about the only shellac based primer on the market anymore so it would be the only primer I would recommend. Do NOT buy the hype that any of the other "BIN" synthetic shellac primers will help. They will NOT. You must use the shellac based BIN. Then go to a real paint store and ask for their best lo-voc, LOW ODOR paint that they have. (And before you ask, Sherwin Williams does not qualify as a "real paint store". Not until they stop staffing their stores with brand new MBA's and marketing degrees and pretty much chasing anyone with any real paint knowledge off.)

And FYI, No matter what your new painter says, Kilz is crap and won't do anything to stop the smell. Apply another coat or two of BIN, LET IT DRY OVERNIGHT, and then topcoat.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

So, I don't want:

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-ca...b-i-n-advanced-synthetic-shellac-primer-white

but instead I want:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-...terior-Primer-and-Sealer-6-Pack-908/205140037


???

I just want to make sure. There are three coats of BIN on there right now. I'm impressed that they've reduced the problem greatly.

The first two coats were the synthetic. That seemed to not quite do the trick, and I'm pretty sure the third coat was another kind of BIN (original? I don't know what all these different BINs are). That did the trick - I thought. Until the warm humid weather showed that the smell lingered, although very greatly reduced. 

Thank you for your advice. I'd like to be clear which product you're recommending. 

It's going to be tough to tell the painter that I don't want to go with his plan. I was hoping that an oil-based primer might do something that the BIN had not - that the two different kinds of primers might together make one final solution. But that sounds like the wrong way to think and I don't want to put good money after bad. And I do have a lot of faith in the BIN since it's helped so much already.

Thank you also for your further advice on low voc paints. At this point, that isn't a priority anymore. I will try to find the brand and kind which doesn't seem to be linked to these smell problems. 

much appreciated.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Olympic ICON........worst paint ever.......worse than Behr.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

I'm afraid I have to agree based on my experience with it. However, we used Olympic icon in another room at about the same time, and had zero issues.

I highly suspect this was a combination of vulnerable paint and contaminated colorant. However, that is only speculation. I have no way to know what caused this problem. 

I don't think I'll use ANY paint again without a spot test on something disposable - or on a small area of the wall that I can isolate somehow if a smell develops.


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## Pro Color (Apr 17, 2008)

We have had success with the Shellac based BIN, haven't tried the synthetic....however, the problem did not seem anywhere near as bad as yours.

As far as the Kilz....it's decent with water stains, but blocking out odors? Good luck.

Jacksonville Painter


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Pro Color said:


> We have had success with the Shellac based BIN, haven't tried the synthetic....however, the problem did not seem anywhere near as bad as yours.
> 
> As far as the Kilz....it's decent with water stains, but blocking out odors? Good luck.
> 
> Jacksonville Painter


After having several insurance rehab painting companies as customers I can tell you they all said Kilz was worthless on odors and mediocre on water stains. It is cheap and that's why so many people use it.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> Most likely there was something on the wall that was activated during the painting.


I'm a firm believer in reality, and I don't buy anything that doesn't make sense.

IF (big if there) there was anything on the wall prior to painting, it WOULD HAVE SMELLED prior to painting.

Turn to your own life's experience. Is there anything on this Good Earth that you've seen that is "activated" so that it starts to smell as a result of a brief exposure to water?

Carpets can start to stink if they're shampoo'd because of all the bacteria and organic matter in the pile. The water makes the bacteria mobile and the bacteria start feasting on all the organic debris in the old carpet causing a bacteriological population explosion, and that's the source of the stink. But, once the carpet dries out again, the smell dissipates. Newer or cleaner carpets won't do that because they don't have all the organic matter (aka: bacteria food) accumulated in them.

Dogs can stink to high heaven after having been given a bath for exactly the same reason. The dog rolls in another dog's chit on the ground, and a dog's skin sheds skin cells just like people do. So, when a dog's fir gets wet, there's a bacteriological population explosion supported by all the organic debris in his fir that make the dog smell like, well, a "Wet Dog". But once it's fur dries out again, the smell dissipates. "Rotting Food" is a similar smell and is also caused by bacteria feeding and multiplying.

So, the idea that something was initiated by the presence of water (or the paint itself) that resulted in a persistent smell just doesn't seem to jive with the reality I've observed in the world I live in.

Finally, if this problem happened as a result of there being "something on the wall", then one would expect that other people in other houses would have the same stuff on their walls, and the problem LisaQ is experiencing would be more common. But, this is the first time I've heard of a paint smelling after it's fully dried.

What we seem to have here is something that doesn't "make sense" just from personal life experience, and so I'm left believing the problem has to be entirely with the paint itself.


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## peeteb (Aug 24, 2012)

I think u need to check the spec. Sheets on any suspect product used. It's your enviorment. Bin works but Bin products give off lethal air born gases. Ought to use respirator when applied. 
Spec. Sheets on all products are available toll free 1805551212 and ask operator for company manufacturer's toll free number. By law they are required to send by fax , letter, or download to your email what's in it and precautions.


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## peeteb (Aug 24, 2012)

PS some mfg's use casein an egg product as a binder, especially in high end lo voc natural organic paint. If the preservative is left out or under the proper amount, the paint can rot.


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## peeteb (Aug 24, 2012)

PPS a paint chemist can tell u what's going on.


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## GeselleBrian (Apr 1, 2015)

Casein paint does not rot, and it doesnt need preservative if mixed fresh in the traditional manner. It can get mold, just like any latex paint can.

Casein is milk protein. The eggwhite version is called albumin.

Either way the protein is broken down by chemical reaction with the other main ingredient, slaked lime (or borax). 
Depending on the mixture, with the lime version, the paint can be even more resistant to fungus than latex/acrylic etc. due to alkalinity.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

I am continuing to read new posts and re-read all posts. I've decided to go with the shellac-based BIN, get it tinted so the painter doesn't have to try to paint white on white.

Now, how do I know which store to buy and tint BIN at? I won't buy anything like that from Lowe's again, and it doesn't sound like the other stores I'm, familiar with are any better. Is it OK on this site to ask for recommendations along those lines? I'm not afraid of the BIN, just any pigment whatsoever ---  (yes, this experience has made me paranoid)


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

LisaQ said:


> I am continuing to read new posts and re-read all posts. I've decided to go with the shellac-based BIN, get it tinted so the painter doesn't have to try to paint white on white.
> 
> Now, how do I know which store to buy and tint BIN at? I won't buy anything like that from Lowe's again, and it doesn't sound like the other stores I'm, familiar with are any better. Is it OK on this site to ask for recommendations along those lines? I'm not afraid of the BIN, just any pigment whatsoever ---  (yes, this experience has made me paranoid)


Do a google search for paint stores in your area. If there doesn't appear to be any, go old school and check the phone book. (if your area still has one or you didn't throw it out the day you got it). Or try a True Value or Ace store in your area. They both should carry BIN. They may be a little more expensive but they SHOULD be able to tint it with few problems. As a rule of thumb it should be tinted about 1/2 of the topcoat formula.

Also, the BIN shellac primer does have a pretty strong odor when it is being applied. It does dissipate quickly, but make sure you have good ventilation while the painter is using it.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

klaatu said:


> Do a google search for paint stores in your area. If there doesn't appear to be any, go old school and check the phone book. (if your area still has one or you didn't throw it out the day you got it). Or try a True Value or Ace store in your area. They both should carry BIN. They may be a little more expensive but they SHOULD be able to tint it with few problems. As a rule of thumb it should be tinted about 1/2 of the topcoat formula.
> 
> Also, the BIN shellac primer does have a pretty strong odor when it is being applied. It does dissipate quickly, but make sure you have good ventilation while the painter is using it.


and that's putting in mildly at best


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

The painter's coming tomorrow morning to apply another coat of shellac-based BIN over the 3 coats of BIN that are already on the walls (2 synthetic and 1 shellac).

My fingers are crossed. 

Thanks to all again. I'll let you know what happens.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

It stinks.

LOL!

I asked the painter to start on one wall and work his way around - and keep going til the BIN was gone. We ended up with 2 coats on three of the four walls. 

It dried quickly and the smell went away. But by Sunday- a couple of days later - a musty "clay" smell developed and is lingering. The walls are dry to the touch, so I'm hoping the smell will dissipate. However, temps are 90+ today, with high humidity - so the air is rather trapped in there (AC is running, house is 77) 

Really sick of the smell. But since it's essentially different than the paint smell, I still have some hope that it will go away. One thing's for sure: this is IT with the BIN. If this doesn't fix it, it's hopeless and the walls will have to come out (as others have resorted to)


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## Amyl (Aug 6, 2015)

Update? Hoping for good news. Im dealing with smell issues and reluctant to use BIN because of it's strong smell and I'd have to do it myself.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Last fall I hired a professional painter to apply 2 coats of synthetic BIN. There was still some residual smell that was akin to the yucky paint smell, but it was greatly reduced. So, three weeks later I hired another painter to apply one coat of BIN shellac. Everything seemed good at that point. Once the BIN dried, there was no smell and I thought I was in the clear. 

However, this past spring a funkiness reappeared as the weather got warm. The smell is very temperature/humidity dependent. But again, the smell was no where near as bad as when it was just the paint on the walls a year ago. That was really foul. To me it smelled like B.O. Others said just a paint smell. The expert from the a remediation company said it was NOT mold. 

A couple weeks ago I re-hired the gentleman who applied the third coat of BIN in the fall. I bought a can of BIN shellac and had it tinted, and he painted it on the walls til it was gone. He managed to put 2 coats on 3 of the walls and one on the fourth. SO - there are FIVE coats of BIN on 3 of the walls and FOUR coats of BIN on the fourth. two coats are synthetic and the subsequent layers are shellac BIN.

I believe the smell is conquered. But since this is so dependent on temperature and humidity, I'm leaving the walls as they are for now to let them do what they're going to do in various conditions before I have the room painted.

I have A LOT of fear about applying latex paint now. It's water-based and I'm afraid that if even a slight amount of moisture is able to permeate the layers of BIN, whatever foul spirit is inhabiting the underworld on my wall will be resurrected. Since I have no idea what was causing the smell, I don't know how to get rid of it. I wish I'd taken a few moments to have the BIN tinted a more pleasant color. The room is a weird chocolate milk color now, with one wall showing some white where the BIN is thin and only applied in one coat.

I learned that there are oil-based wall paints, which I thought might be less likely to react badly with what's on the walls - but they don't sound like they'd look very good on the walls.

I'm still at a loss as to how to proceed. But it does seem like if you have the patience and money to keep covering the stuff with BIN, that might work. If you're doing it yourself - you'll have to have a respirator appropriate for the kind of fumes it generates (as described earlier by another commenter). But after all this time, severe inconvenience and expense - I think if I'd had more money available going into this and I'd known what it would entail I probably would have replaced the drywall, as others have done. Money affects decision making and when you don't have it, it sometimes costs you more in the long run - ironically.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Amyl - what sort of smell issues are you dealing with? Is it the paint on the wall that smells or something else like smoke, mold, etc.?

BIN is really amazing stuff. But you do have to be careful in using it, as has been described by others.


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## Amyl (Aug 6, 2015)

I posted about it earlier. I used Behr premium plus 0 voc, it gave the room a sweaty sock smell for 2 months. That's when I contacted Behr. They sent me Kilz Max primer. The room smell worse since using it. Like a sour smell and like pickles. I dont know what to do now.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Amyl said:


> I posted about it earlier. I used Behr premium plus 0 voc, it gave the room a sweaty sock smell for 2 months. That's when I contacted Behr. They sent me Kilz Max primer. The room smell worse since using it. Like a sour smell and like pickles. I dont know what to do now.


Stop using behr.
stop using Kilz.
Something in those walls needs sealed in. Either that or the odor is coming from somewhere else. Stay out of the room for a few minutes then go into it and take a whiff of the walls with your nose real close to them. If you can ascertain for sure that the smell is coming from the wall, I would go to a shellac based primer as was mentioned earlier in this thread. As you can see, this is a smelly product and you will need to make sure your room is well ventilated while you are using it (and as long as possible after it is applied). Let it dry overnight and recoat with a true O voc LOW ODOR paint. They are NOT the same thing! Avoid the box stores and even Sherwin Williams! Try to find a Benjamin Moore, California, Muralo, or possibly a Graham paint dealer in your area and ask them for a O voc, LOW ODOR product and they will have what you need. You will pay a little more for it but an extra $15 to do a whole room is not out of line, unless you are poor enough you shouldn't be buying paint in the first place. Try going to those brands' web sites and use their dealer locators to find a retailer near you.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

Amyl said:


> I posted about it earlier. I used Behr premium plus 0 voc, it gave the room a sweaty sock smell for 2 months. That's when I contacted Behr. They sent me Kilz Max primer. The room smell worse since using it. Like a sour smell and like pickles. I dont know what to do now.


Amyl,

Rotten smell with paint can be a difficult issue to contain, but you've gotten some good advice here...I don't know much about Kilz Max as I, like many people here, consider Kilz products to be a "step below" other primer/sealer/stainkillers. To each his own though.

It's important to know the source of the odor to effectively stop it - I think it's safe to say, that after a couple of months, the smell is probably caused by something other than the paint itself. Given your description, and it's longevity, I'd guess is a bacterial attack either with in the paint (not entirely uncommon), or "dormant" within your wall (also not uncommon). IF it is bacteria - bacteria is a living, breathing organism and requires both oxygen and food for survival. The food source can be virtually anything organic and may come from a host of building products such as wood, drywall compounds, paint, adhesives, etc. 

I've found the best means to contain a bacterial attack is to; 

(a) kill the surface bacteria with spray type, non-rinsing, anti-bacterial disinfectant (Lysol has such a product). The "spray" part is important. Spray liberally onto the surface and allow to dry - completely. Then, for best results - do it again. A disinfectant will kill only what it comes in contact with, thus the need to apply liberally - as much as will penetrate the surface will only help in the mitigation. 
(b) After disinfecting, apply 1 coat of BIN Pigmented Shellac. If possible apply by spray (conventional or airless) and be sure to provide plenty of ventillation. As I'm sure ChrisN will certainly come along and warn of the delicate & pleasant aroma of BIN, without adequate ventillation, you'll be singing with the care bears shortly after your application begins...Allow to dry thoroughly - and again, for best results, apply a second coat (even though you can recoat much sooner, I recommended at least overnight dry before applying second coat of BIN). Once again, spray application is more effective and preferred for bacteria containment - and, 
(c) apply 2 coats of a high quality acrylic wall paint in whatever sheen you desire. Personally, I'd choose a white, or a light color, as tinting pigments may often provide a food source for any remaining bacteria.

Following this procedure, the smell may still linger for a few days (diminishing each day) as the bacteria makes it's last gasp attempts to survive. But with this system, you have greatly messed up their colony with the disinfectant, killing much of what is near the surface...and deprived them of easy accessible oxygen as BIN Primer seals completely and is extremely impervious...and along with the BIN, the solid acrylic wall paint deprives any surviving bacteria of a sustaining food source. Open windows and keep the fans blowing the next few days, and the odors should soon become a smell of the past.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Amyl, when did you put the paint on the walls? When did you contact Behr? I suggest you continue to communicate with them - to let them know the problem wasn't solved. Involve them. Let them know what advice you've gotten from others regarding primers. 

See this site too:
http://www.edpaintingonline.com/blog/interior/getting-rid-of-paint-smell/#comment-57665

This seems to be a problem that is cropping up here and there with zero VOC paints - and isn't limited to one manufacturer. It may be too late, but if you can: get a sample of the paint off the wall and ask the company to pay for having it analyzed. 

If you're having the same problem as others have had - remedy could be expensive. If the product was contaminated at the manufacturer or retail level, perhaps they will help to make things right. I'm not having a ton of luck with that, but if I'd been aware of this problem when I first painted, I would have involved PPG immediately and would have insisted that they find out why the paint smelled and wouldn't dry.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Update from OP:

We applied the final topcoat last Friday (72 hours ago) and, so far so good. It looks great. It still smells a bit but continues to dissipate. When a full week has passed without the funky odor returning I will declare success and explain more about what we did over time in case anyone else who's had this problem happens by.

Thanks! be back in a few days.


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## Amyl (Aug 6, 2015)

ric knows paint said:


> Amyl said:
> 
> 
> > I posted about it earlier. I used Behr premium plus 0 voc, it gave the room a sweaty sock smell for 2 months. That's when I contacted Behr. They sent me Kilz Max primer. The room smell worse since using it. Like a sour smell and like pickles. I dont know what to do now.
> ...


ric- I just saw this post. Thank you so much for the detailed information. I read somewhere else about using lysol. I did that once a couple weeks ago. Then I used bleach a week later. I then wiped the walls with water to try to get the bleach off before applying bin. I haven't applied the bin yet. I bought it last week but just haven't had time. I had originally painted the room a medium blue, i think it was a medium base. I guess im going to have to go lighter. What paint do you recommend. I ordered two medium samples from Mystic. Its supposed to be zero voc and non toxic, but opening both samples, it too smelled rancid. So Im thinking sherwin williams harmony. suggestions on paint? Can you suggest a ceiling paint too? Thank you.


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## Amyl (Aug 6, 2015)

LisaQ said:


> Update from OP:
> 
> We applied the final topcoat last Friday (72 hours ago) and, so far so good. It looks great. It still smells a bit but continues to dissipate. When a full week has passed without the funky odor returning I will declare success and explain more about what we did over time in case anyone else who's had this problem happens by.
> 
> Thanks! be back in a few days.


Lisa, you give me hope. Im so nervous. What paint are you using and what color/shade?


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Sorry it took me longer than I had planned before making this reply. It's a long story, but basically - it didn't work. My painter applied 2 coats of BM Aura two weeks ago tomorrow. It looks beautiful. And unlike the problematic paint, it's dry and smooth to the touch. 

However, as the strong paint smell went away, it was replaced by a smell I would describe as a mixture of BIN and paint, to then slowly morph into a strong smell like that I associated with the BIN after it was dry. Sort of a clay smell. Now it smells like the original problem again with the smell of BIN mixed in. I think it's worse now than it was with the original paint. It's definitely worse than the BIN by itself. The smell gives me a headache and makes me feel a little sick to my stomach, which I don't remember happening with the original stink.

So, I guess we're going to have to remove the drywall. 

I re-wrote my saga on the page I linked to before - if anyone's interested in a rehash of the details. 
http://www.edpaintingonline.com/blog/interior/getting-rid-of-paint-smell/#comment-58931

I wish I'd been able to give you better news. I was so optimistic that I was finally going to be done with this. But that's happened several times during the past 2 years. Now I'm hoping I can avoid any of the bad drywall I've heard about. 

Also, I have to say that the people at the Benjamin Moore store have been really great in trying to help.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

LisaQ said:


> Sorry it took me longer than I had planned before making this reply. It's a long story, but basically - it didn't work. My painter applied 2 coats of BM Aura two weeks ago tomorrow. It looks beautiful. And unlike the problematic paint, it's dry and smooth to the touch.
> 
> However, as the strong paint smell went away, it was replaced by a smell I would describe as a mixture of BIN and paint, to then slowly morph into a strong smell like that I associated with the BIN after it was dry. Sort of a clay smell. Now it smells like the original problem again with the smell of BIN mixed in. I think it's worse now than it was with the original paint. It's definitely worse than the BIN by itself. The smell gives me a headache and makes me feel a little sick to my stomach, which I don't remember happening with the original stink.
> 
> ...


Wow. That really sounds like there is a drywall problem now. The only other thing i can think of to try would be to use a straight, un-pigmented shellac. But i don't really think that would be much better then the bin that you already used. Since you may have to re-drywall it anyway, cut out a piece of the drywall and smell it on the back side and see how it smells. My gut feeling is that you will find your smell by doing that.


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## LisaQ (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks Klaatu.

We've owned the house 10 years. We painted that room (and all the rooms) when we first moved in. I've lived in it, smell-free, until I tried to paint it two years ago. That's when the problem started. I suppose it's possible that the bad paint affected the drywall underneath it somehow - but it would have had to do so through the paint we applied 8 years before that, along with the paint that was under it (white when we moved in) and whatever was under that.

I don't know what to do now other than replace the drywall. I have a lot of anger about this. If that's what happens, we'll definitely be taking a look at the drywall.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Having a very similar problem!

I painted , didn't like the color, primed, repainted... and an odor developed.

It smells musty at first, then if it builds up it smells like rotting food.

I peeled off the paint layers in some areas where it didn't adhere well and a strong odor seems to be projecting from the wall itself! It does not make sense.

THREE FULL LAYERS OF BIN so far have not helped at all. I cannot replace the walls, so I have no choice except to BIN until I WIN!

:vs_worry::vs_mad:

I wonder if there is something like plastic wallpaper that I can put up as an impermeable barrier as a last resort?


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## Pro Color (Apr 17, 2008)

Wall paper might seal out the odor....curious though why 3 coats of Bin failed? Shellac based I assume?

Www.ProColorJax.com


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Good question. Given its good reputation I dont know why 3 layers of BIN shellac did not succeed in blocking or reducing the odor. But I also dont know why I would believe that more would help.

Intuitively I see that it is very watery when applied and that does not give me faith that it would form an impenetrable barrier to odor particles like metal, plastic or similar would.

I hung .7 mil plastic drop sheets from the walls as an experiment and it made a significant difference.


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## Pro Color (Apr 17, 2008)

Now that I read the words "impermeable barrier".....epoxy comes to mind. We use epoxies on a daily basis on walls inside commercial bathrooms (its code here) to provide a impermeable barrier. That's the words some of the plans actually read when epoxies are in specs. 

Maybe that would work? They have two (2) part and even one (1) part latex epoxies nowadays.

Good luck.


www.procolorpaintingllc.com


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

make sure you prime and repaint the ceiling as well if that's not already done. 100% sealed. sorry to hear that you're dealing with such a nightmare. personally, I'd use kilz. used to use it on fire damage all the time. i had to seal in the smoke smell on rafters, joists and studs among other things, and it did a fine job of it. i'm guessing that any porous surface (wood work, carpet etc) should also be scrubbed down. you don't have to go nuts here, just make sure they've been cleaned with a non abrasive cleaner such as pinesol or murphys or something similar for the woodwork, if there is any, and make sure the floor has also been thoroughly cleaned.) good luck.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

stevew700 said:


> Good question. Given its good reputation I dont know why 3 layers of BIN shellac did not succeed in blocking or reducing the odor. But I also dont know why I would believe that more would help.
> 
> Intuitively I see that it is very watery when applied and that does not give me faith that it would form an impenetrable barrier to odor particles like metal, plastic or similar would.
> 
> I hung .7 mil plastic drop sheets from the walls as an experiment and it made a significant difference.


Watery?? I've only used BIN once and it was very thick.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Pro Color said:


> Now that I read the words "impermeable barrier".....epoxy comes to mind. We use epoxies on a daily basis on walls inside commercial bathrooms (its code here) to provide a impermeable barrier. That's the words some of the plans actually read when epoxies are in specs.
> 
> Maybe that would work? They have two (2) part and even one (1) part latex epoxies nowadays.
> 
> ...


Hello . THank you for the suggestion. Can you recommend an epoxy product that can be rolled onto drywall?


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

wptski said:


> Watery?? I've only used BIN once and it was very thick.


Maybe I'm not expressing it right. People have mentioned on forums that BIN is "runny" and "difficult to handle."

It reminds me of milk or light cream.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

stevew700 said:


> Maybe I'm not expressing it right. People have mentioned on forums that BIN is "runny" and "difficult to handle."
> 
> It reminds me of milk or light cream.


I bought a quart to spot knots in some pine used on a fascia repair job and in no way was it "runny". I sprayed Zinsser 1-2-3 over that and every spot where it was used showed up as a raised area because of its thickness.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

wptski said:


> I bought a quart to spot knots in some pine used on a fascia repair job and in no way was it "runny". I sprayed Zinsser 1-2-3 over that and every spot where it was used showed up as a raised area because of its thickness.



Are you sure you had the regular alcohol based Bin shellac and not the new synthetic shellac? 
The new synthetic stuff is water based and quite thick. The regular Bin in notorious for its low viscosity. Compared to other paints anyway.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

Jmayspaint said:


> Are you sure you had the regular alcohol based Bin shellac and not the new synthetic shellac?
> The new synthetic stuff is water based and quite thick. The regular Bin in notorious for its low viscosity. Compared to other paints anyway.


Just looked at the can and it's the alcohol based stuff but the way it sounds in the can, it must be very thin. So much for my memory! It did cover the knots but was visible after priming but after two finish coats, it wasn't.


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## avatamsaka (Jun 25, 2017)

In case anyone still reads this thread....

A month ago I read this forum for about 3 hours straight. I was desperate to get answers and very relieved in a way to find I was not alone, nor crazy, but I was at the end of my rope due to the wall odour/ stinky paint smell phenomenon. Only those who've experienced it can really understand, I think, how awful it is. 

I had just moved into a new apartment which had been painted a couple of months prior by the landlord. The landlord just shrugged.

I will get to the point: I did further research after reading this forum and another forum, and further research and I decided to try something and IT WORKED. It's been a month and the smell is still GONE.

So, I wanted to share it with you all here.

I decided to spray the entire apartment - every single wall and in every closet - with hydrogen peroxide, to kill the bacteria. Then, after letting it dry over night, I wiped down every single wall again with hydrogen peroxide (literally dipped the mop into 100% H2O2).

I read on this forum and another forum that bleach did not work. Then I read on another site about bleach v.s. hydrogen peroxide as a disinfectant which said that bleach is not porous, so will not penetrate the surface of things, but hydrogen peroxide is porous and will penetrate. So, that's why I decided on hydrogen peroxide.

You will need:
- to pull everything away from the walls. 
-Get a really good spray bottle (I got mine at Bed Bath and Beyond).
-A lot of bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide (grocery store or pharmacy).

In hindsight, a hat and goggles or glasses, and maybe a mask to cover mouth and nose might have been helpful but we did it without any of these. My eyes were watering like crazy by the end (but not at first) and I only have a one bedroom apartment so, I can't imagine the work involved to get a whole house done this way but having more than one person on the job sure helps. For moral support too!

Letting it dry means streaks on the walls the next day but if you wipe every wall down the next day (I used a mop, also from BBandB) with Hydrogen peroxide again, you get rid of the streaks and give it a second go for good measure.

The apartment smelled SO CLEAN after this, I cried.

I hope this helps someone!!!

P.S. The apartment I am in has plaster walls I think - not drywall (it's an older building).

Good luck!


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

"I read on this forum and another forum that bleach did not work. Then I read on another site about bleach v.s. hydrogen peroxide as a disinfectant which said that bleach is not porous, so will not penetrate the surface of things, but hydrogen peroxide is porous and will penetrate. So, that's why I decided on hydrogen peroxide."

I'm glad this worked for you.

Can anyone explain how this works? Chemicals like bleach and hydrogen peroxide aren't strictly speaking "porous". The wall could be porous or the paint could be, eventually, I suppose. Does it have to do with the CO2 that is created?


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## diwhy1 (Oct 15, 2021)

Digging this thread up after years because I'm trying to avoid the mistake but I can't see how I would have anticipated it.

From the link TS provided it looks like she ended up taking PPM to small claims court and losing (for not satisfying the burden of proof). But how can you satisfy the burden of proof with a smell? What kind of expert witness could you even call to the stand?

What an insane saga. I wonder if what another user suggested was correct and the paint was casein protein based and the egg protein didn't denature fully. Or perhaps the wall absorbed ambient smells (ie. this new trend of "air purifying walls" makes me think that we will be seeing a lot of issues similar to this one shortly -- they're not purifying, they're absorbing). What's most insane is that she was trying to be responsible and go with zero VOC in the first place.

I'd be curious to see if avatamsaka was using the same brand or type of paint and if the hydrogen peroxide solution held up.

If anyone else has similar issues in the future, please include brand, manufacturer and paint type. Also if the company was contacted, please let us know as well.


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