# Washer Help Needed



## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

You could try it. I would go easy and use pb blaster first. Then tap each notch gently (ccw) and try to break it free without damaging the spanner nut. Video doesn't mention that.

If that doesn't work, another suggestion, if you have a local hardware or tool rental shop nearby you could rent the proper spanner wrench for the day for a few dollars.

If you have a harbour freight store nearby you could probably get one for 5 bucks. Very cheap crapy tools, but they work.

Just a couple suggestions.


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

jb weld might help. Don't really know if it would work. It's the cheapest option.

The suspension spring should attach to the base retainer and support bracket. See video.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

You can pick up one of those spanner wrenches for like ten bucks on eBay or a similar site? You can use a pair of large vice grips as well. You'll actually have to hit the vice grips with a hammer to break it loose. You can hit it with a small chisel too. Just a few things I've had to do when I was in a bind. Not sure how to attach a picture but Google whirlpool direct drive washer pictures and you'll see how that bracket attaches near the base of the tub. New tub comes with a new seal. Old tub won't. Your jb weld idea might work. Hope it does. Good luck!


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks guys!

JMON, thanks for the video. The issue that I've got tho, is that the suspension spring is just fine (I think). The problem is that the other end of the bracket spring has come loose from somewhere. I take it that I can take the cabinet off. Will that then make it clear where the other (non suspension spring) end will go? Assuming that's the case, what do I use to secure it (perhaps you can suggest a part off the machine diagram?)? Also, since I'm going to all this trouble, should I just replace the suspension springs (they look OK, but ...)?

BayouRunner, thanks for the additional suggestions vis-à-vis the tub nut. I'm avoiding ordering anything not just to sidestep the cost, but also to speed things along. I do like your vice grips suggestion -- I think I'll try that first.

Well, I'm going to tackle this project on the weekend (pending any additional input from you guys). Wish me luck!

Richard


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

You are welcome Richard.

Probably would be easier if you took the cabinet off as mentioned and shown in the video. 

You should be able to get an idea where the bracket goes by holding it up to the base with the suspension spring attached. Look for a hole somewhere on the base that matches up to the bracket hole. Look at the other suspension springs to get an idea where it goes. You should be able to figure it out.

Looks like they used sheet metal screws. You may have to use the next size up, or nut and bolt with lock washer. Another option, if the metal is rusted out in that area is to make another hole to secure it properly.

I agree, while you have it all apart, replace all the suspension springs at the same time with new ones. They are not that expensive. Only need 4 of them.

Hope you get it fixed and up and running soon Richard.


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

I've made progress but now I'm stuck. I tried the suggested alternatives to getting a spanner wrench, without success. So, I broke down and got one. A few whacks and the tub nut came off. However, according to this video 



, I simply should be able to lift out the inner tub. Ain't happening -- it's like it's welded on. Am I missing taking some other part off? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Richard

P.S. - As noted previously, it's a Kenmore clothes washer, model 110.92284100. You can see a diagram of it at http://www.searspartsdirect.com/mode...2/0153200.html.


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

RichardZ said:


> I've made progress but now I'm stuck. I tried the suggested alternatives to getting a spanner wrench, without success. So, I broke down and got one. A few whacks and the tub nut came off. However, according to this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfr-m5iXh3s, I simply should be able to lift out the inner tub. Ain't happening -- it's like it's welded on. Am I missing taking some other part off? Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


Verify you removed all the brackets and screws/nuts that are secured to the bottom of tub, especially that hard to reach one in the back. Lube shaft up good with some wd40 and try again.


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

jmon, 

Thanks for the reply. I think what you're referring to is the outer plastic tub. I do need to get that off eventually. Right now I'm trying to pull out the inner metal "clothes" tub. My understanding from the referenced video is that this inner metal tub should just slip out once the tub nut has been removed. The trouble is, it isn't budging. 

I've attached two photos. One shows the overall state. The second shows some nubs at the base inside the tub. There are four of them. Are these supposed to be pushed in?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Richard


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

You should be aware of one of the most important DIY'ers rules:

If it doesn't move but should, use WD40.....but my corollary is just use a bigger hammer........give that tub post a smack it will break free.


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

DanS26,

Thanks for the suggestion. I did try some Liquid Wrench. I banged a bit on it (with a board as a buffer), but no joy. I didn't want to hit it too hard because I was concerned about chipping the porcelain But, your suggestion prompted me to remember that I have a rubber mallet somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and give it a try.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Richard


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

Still no luck. I've tried whacking it. I sprayed WD-40 all over, including the nibs. It turns out the nibs can be depressed, so I pushed them in. Still no luck. It's liked something still needs to be removed. Anyone have a suggestion as to what am I missing?

Thanks,

Richard


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Basket should just pull straight up. sorry I cant offer an easy way but there should not be anything else holding it


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

OK, here's the down low. I finally got the inner tub out (see below).

And to make a long story short: I stopped the leak, but the tub still bangs during the spin cycle . 

For future joes/josephines faced with my challenge, I've included what I did, along with pictures. The first part gives an overview of what I did. The second part lists some "lessons learned". (Note: the latter is split across two posts, because there evidently is a length limit to individual posts ...)


*PART ONE: OVERVIEW OF WHAT I DID
*
In terms of what I did, when I finally got the inner tub out (see below for lessons learned), I filled the outer tub with water to see where the leak was. It turns out the outer tub was fine. The problem was that the outer tub seal had disintegrated, and that was the cause of the leak. I removed the outer tub, and tossed the seal. 

Now, where the seal rests against the frame central column support post, the post had corroded a bit. So, I got some marine epoxy and a disposable foam paint brush from Home Depot. I applied the epoxy to seal the corroded area using the paint brush, and then applied the epoxy to areas on the inner tub where I had banged on it with a hammer. (See below for lessons learned.) After it had cured (24 hours), I lightly sanded the epoxy on the frame central column support post to further smooth it. Here's a picture so you can see what I'm talking about:










I then reassembled the washer using a new outer tub seal. For the tension spring brackets, I replaced the missing machine screws with stainless steel 3/4" #10x32 round head bolts and stainless steel nylon lock nuts. While I could have used #8 bolts, I wanted the larger ones for strength. I used x32 fine threading to better hold. And I used round head again for strength, after checking (!) that they would not end up touching the cabinet (not even close...). I had to force them into the old holes (which were a bit smaller), but this just meant that the bolts gripped the frame. In fact, I perhaps could have done without the nylon lock nuts, but I'm a belt and suspenders guy, so I went with them as well.

The rest of the washer went back together as per the video. I did put a little bit of bearing grease on the middle of the washer drive block to help prevent it from cementing to the inner tub (I didn't slather it all over so it wouldn't get into the clothes during the first few washes). I considered using plumbers joint compound on the spanner nut; however, since I'd already sprung for the spanner wrench, I figured I didn't need joint compound getting into the clothes during a wash (if I had been successful with a chisel and hammer, however, I would have done it).

The good news, is that the washer doesn't leak. The bad news is that it still bangs during the spin cycle (starts out OK, but after it starts to pick up speed, it starts banging). I took the cabinet off in order to see what was going on, but couldn't see any obvious problem. (Note: in order to get the washer to spin with the cabinet off, I removed the lid switch from the cabinet, connected it to the console, and wired the switch into the closed position using plastic bag ties -- hey, if it's stupid but it works ...)

So, that's the story.


*PART TWO: LESSONS LEARNED
*
Here're my "lessons learned" that you might find helpful. They are as follows:


Do NOT leave the washer on its side
Easier way to remove the back tension spring bracket
Spanner nut removal
"Painting" with epoxy
Removing the inner tub (see follow on post

DO * NOT * LEAVE THE WASHER ON ITS SIDE

Some videos instruct you to lay the washer on its side. Based on my experience, one can probably do this for a short while, but do *not* leave it on its side for an extended period of time.

I left my washer on its side overnight, and was greeted in the morning with a small puddle of thick oil. I suspect that it came from the transmission. It was only about a tablespoon in amount, so I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the best ...

Given how thick the oil is, I suspect that resting the washer on its side is OK for short periods of time. BUT, don't leave it there. If you have to stop work for a short period of time so as to grab some lunch or go to the store for parts, I recommend setting it back upright.


EASIER WAY TO REMOVE THE BACK TENSION SPRING BRACKET

The videos recommend accessing the sheet metal screw holding the back tension spring bracket via a hole in the back panel. This requires a socket wrench extension bar. 

However, once you have the cabinet off, you have direct, albeit a bit tight access to that rear bracket. I used a small (1/4" drive) socket wrench with the appropriately sized socket (can't remember the size - 5/16"?) to take off the machine screw. To make more room, I did push the tub as far forward as I could. 

To tell you the truth, you probably could use a larger drive socket wrench (3/8" or 1/2") as well, but it'd just be a bit tighter working with socket wrenches of those sizes.


SPANNER NUT REMOVAL

There's a 99.9% likelihood that you *are* going to buy a spanner wrench. Go ahead, try removing it with a chisel and hammer per the videos you can find online. If it works for you, great! However, mark my words, you're going to be springing a few bucks for that spanner wrench (which works disgustingly well to loosen the spanner nut, like under 5 seconds). 

I know, I know: who wants to spend $15 for a tool you'll only use once? Not me! And after losing a day and a half, I said forget it, and went and bought the friggin' thing. 

If it'll assuage your feelings, think of it as being a small price to pay for not calling in the repairman. Yes, you'd still like to save that $15 even so, but as I said, the reality is you're gonna pay for it, no matter how much it pains you ("I'm throwing away $15!") ... And if it helps, calling in repairman would not only be a much more expensive proposition, it'd also be a one-shot deal as well!

By the way, most appliance repair parts stores carry spanner wrenches. You can also find spanner wrenches on Amazon for as low as $9, with next day shipping at about $6 (check out the link "XX New from $x.xx"). And yes, you'll spring for next day shipping because (A) you will consider it a cheap price to pay not to hear your significant other repeatedly and pointedly ask "WHEN WILL THE WASHER BE FIXED?!?" and (B) you'll quickly spend that in gas and coins in going to a laundromat to wash your clothes while waiting for your "free shipping" package to arrive.

Finally, based on my limited research, everyone and their brother (including most appliance repair professionals) use the Supco TB123A Spanner Wrench. Also as near as I can make out, it works on ALL Whirlpool/Kenmore washers that have a spanner nut. HOWEVER, I am not a repairman, and I do NOT assert that I have conducted an adequate survey of appliance repair individuals, or that it will work on YOUR washer. I'm just telling you what I gleaned from my personal research. If anyone gets the Supco spanner wrench and it doesn't fit, please kindly let us know.




"PAINTING" WITH EPOXY

I bought a throwaway foam brush in order to ensure that I put down a smooth layer of epoxy. The results were rather marginal in terms of how smooth I was able to lay it down. And, I wanted it as smooth as possible so that the tub seal would seal well.

Moreover, when I subsequently tried using the brush to apply epoxy to chipped spots on the porcelain where I had banged with a regular hammer (out of desperate frustration), the brush by then had started to disintegrate, leaving bits of foam in the epoxy.

If I had to do it over again, I might try a throwaway brush with bristles, rather than foam. Alternatively, I might use a 4 in. x 3/8 in. High-Density Foam Mini-Roller (which isn't exactly cheap, but ...).

Finally, whatever you do, lay the epoxy on THICK while at the same time making it smooth (easier said than done, hence why I might spend the $$$ for the 4 in. x 3/8 in. High-Density Foam Mini-Roller). You can lightly sand a THICK coating, but not a thin one. Also, when sanding, use painters tape to protect nearby un-epoxied surfaces from being scuffed. And yes, there's a 90% chance you WILL scuff them if you don't do this, despite being one of those I'm-the-exception super careful people (look, it's 5" of painters tape -- part with the piddlin' pennies worth of tape and be smart, not stupid).

Post note: to achieve a thick layer, you may want to apply a first coat, let it dry to touch (1-3 hours), and then apply a second coat. If you do this, you will need two throwaways brushes.


REMOVING THE INNER TUB

Please see my next post for the "lessons learned" removing the inner tub.


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

*Re: Washer Help Needed - Removing the Inner Tub*

*PART TWO: LESSONS LEARNED
*
Here's the final installment of the "lessons learned" that started with my previous post ...

REMOVING THE INNER TUB

The inner tub indeed is indeed designed to be lifted out once the spanner nut is removed. There is nothing that otherwise _mechanically_ holds it place. I thought maybe the nibs at the base of the central column of the inner tub perhaps held it in place. Nope. They actually held this plastic piece in place under the bottom of the inner tub:










That thin wire ring in the picture is actually the "spring" that holds the nibs in place once the plastic piece is installed. Here's what the bottom of the inner tub looks like without the plastic piece:











And here is what the bottom of the inner tub looks like with the plastic piece installed:











SO, what was holding the inner tub in place was simply years of accumulated soap residue acts like one incredible glue.

I disparaged of ever getting the tub out, sure that there was something somehow unique about my Kenmore model. (Truth: nope.) In doing research on the web, I did take encouragement from someone who faced the same predicament. (http://www.selfhelpforums.com/archive/index.php/t-26921.html) They related that they did eventually did lift it out, but it took a *lot* of persistence, and that others could expect the same thing (it will lift out, there's nothing mechanically holding it in place, and you just have to be very persistent; read the bottom of the second to last post on the referenced URL for the bit of "encouragement").

Here're the things I tried, based on suggestions around the internet:


Soak it in WD-40 / Liquid Wrench / PB Blaster / brake fluid (actually works on rusted parts!), etc. If it doesn't work, soak it some more and wait an hour. Repeat. Bang on the central column of the inner tub (with the heel of your hand, a rubber mallet, and even a regular hammer, the latter with predictable effects on the porcelain, but I swear you'll get to the point of trying anything, anything at all to get the bloomin' tub out, even if it causes damage to the porcelain in the process) to "break" the bond. Repeat again. And again. Let it soak overnight. Etc.
 This did / did not work for me. It actually was enough to free the washer drive block from the drive shaft (in the video instructions, you're told to gently tap the washer drive block up from the bottom to remove it once you've gotten the inner tub out). You'd think that this would be enough to lift the inner tub out (drive block and all), but no. It turns out that the inner tub was glued to the drive shaft _support_ that _surrounds_ the drive shaft, which is the middle item in this picture:










You could lift the entire assembly about 1/2" -- and by "entire assembly" I mean the washer drive block which was glued to the inner tub which was glued to the drive shaft support (middle item in the picture above), which was held in place by the washer transmission(!) below the outer tub -- before the transmission banged against the bottom of the tub. None of this is evident, by the way, until after you get everything disassembled So, no joy in Mudville.
​
Rock the inner tub back and forth, rotate it a bit, rock some more, and keep doing this until the bond is broken.
 This didn't work for me, probably because the tension springs weren't attached. But hey, give it a try if you want ...
​
Have someone lift up on the inner tub. Take a chisel, and hammer on the washer drive block. (Instead of the chisel, you can use the spanner wrench: hold it vertically, place one end on the top of the washer drive block, and hammer on the other end.)
 Didn't work for me, but may work for you ...​
Take a flat-head screw driver, wedge it between the inner tub and the drive block, and hammer the screwdriver. Move the screwdriver to another position, and repeat.
 Didn't work for me, but may work for you ... ​
Take your shoes off, stand in the inner tub, and rock back and forth.
 Didn't try this one, but may work for you ...​
Fill tub with (hot) water and let it soak.

Think about it: we're talking about soap residue. This should work, but if you're like me with a leaky tub, it's not a viable option.



Pour hot water / vinegar / CLR (calcium, line, rust) cleaner. Repeat as necessary, letting it soak.
 I think that this is what worked for me eventually, although I had to pour a lot of hot water over the top of the washer drive block, and let it soak a bit. If you look at the top of the washer drive block, you'll see that there is a slot down one side. Use a screwdriver to make sure this slot is clear, so that the hot water (or whatever) can go down along the drive shaft.

I had thought along these lines beforehand, but what really convinced me to go this route was this post http://myplasticfreelife.com/2010/09/how-to-take-apart-and-clean-a-stinky-kenmore-whirlpool-top-loading-washer/. In fact, the whole post is worth reading, jammies and all (you'll know what I mean when you read the post).​With the inner tub freed from the drive shaft support, the inner tub and the washer drive block (finally!) lifted off in one piece. And wouldn't you know, I had to hammer the top of the washer drive block to break it free of the inner tub! That's why when I re-assembled the washer, I put a thin layer of bearing grease (you probably could use plumbers joint compound) around the middle of the washer drive block. I left the top one-quarter and bottom one-quarter of the drive block's sides free of grease, so as to not have it wash off onto clothes. Do as you feel best.

I hope the foregoing will save you the time and trouble that so many of us have experienced getting the inner tub to "just lift out" (yeah right: cruise the internet to see how often this is a problem!). Yes, the inner tub just lifts out. No, there is nothing holding it _mechanically_ in place. (Accumulated glue-like soap residue is another matter.) No, your washer isn't somehow unique. Yes, it requires persistence.

And YES, YOU CAN DO IT!

(Anyone who wants to contact me, please feel free. My ID is RichardZ)


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## RichardZ (Dec 19, 2011)

OK, my pics showed up on the preview, but they were lost in the actual post.

Go figure.

Here they are ...

Frame Central Support Column:












Plastic piece that attaches to bottom of the inner tub:












Bottom of inner tub withOUT plastic piece installed:












Bottom on inner tub WITH plastic piece installed:


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks richardz for the follow up. Glad you finally got it off. :thumbsup:


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

Not mentioned, but heating the non-plastic parts with a small butane or propane torch will sometimes work wonders for separating parts.

In this case the soap residue would have melted and made the job much easier.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Looking at that picture that was pretty corroded. I've done a few but haven't seen one that corroded. I can see why you had such a hard time with it. Way to hang with it


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