# How to move a Ground Rod safely?



## Diablos (Aug 2, 2014)

I am laying a stone pad for my grill and there is a ground rod in my way (see picture). Depending on how long it is, can I just pull it out and move it to another spot? Most importantly...do I have to shut off my electricity first?

Also, if the ground is wet, do you think I will be able to hammer it back into the ground?

Another (easier) option would be to drive the rod further into the ground and place the stone on top of it. Besides limiting access to it in the future, is there anything wrong with this option?

-D


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

It will pull out, you might need to use a jack to get it started. 

no need to shut off the electricity, it ain't live.

it will hammer back in easily.
Do not force it , get a bigger hammer.

Check with your local building inspectors office, to get an OK on the move and a re-inspection to pass all local codes.

If you hide it under a stone, you are hiding the access to it if and or when you need to hook another ground wire to it, to add an additional panel for another garage, or wing , or something.


ED


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## bobelectric (Mar 3, 2007)

We bury ground rods everytime we put them in. No problem.


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## garlicbreath (Jun 25, 2012)

Just bury it and be done with it. 

Sent from my Motorola MicroTAC 9800X


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

If something else, such as a bonding bridge for an antenna, needed to be bonded to the grounding electrode system, the applicable wire can be attached to the other ground rod or to the wire(s) (grounding electrode conductors) attached to that.

If A is bonded to B and B is bonded to C then A is bonded to C.


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## PaulBob (Dec 5, 2008)

TURN OFF POWER 

TURN OFF POWER

TURN OFF POWER

TURN OFF POWER!!!!!

Who ever suggested you can just pull it up without turning the power off is also suggesting you risk your life.

While there should be no leakage to ground, if there is, and you pull it, you could be toast... 

Turn the freaking power off.. why take the chance..


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## manchesterspark (May 31, 2012)

pound it into the ground and lay your stone.
The NEC requires it to be driven completely into the ground anyway.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Smack that baby into the ground and be done with it.

As an FYI....if you have a large voltage change if you disconnect the ground rod....something is wrong. If you are like most houses, your pole is feeding several other houses. They are also grounded. Hence, your grounded. While I would not suggest that you could leave your ground rod disconnected, I also doubt fire and brimstone would rain down on you if you did.

If it was me, I would be disconnecting it and measuring the voltage just for sh!ts and grins. In fact, I did about 2 years ago when I was working on the move of my panel. I got 0.1 volt AC from the meter to my ground rod.


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## jproffer (Mar 12, 2005)

PaulBob said:


> TURN OFF POWER
> 
> TURN OFF POWER
> 
> ...


So.....:huh:....you're saying that he should uhhh......:shifty:....turn the power off?

It was subtle, I'm just checking 

The only way the GR could become energized is if there's a fault in the system. I guess I would loosely suggest that someone ELSE turn the power off, but I probably wouldn't do that myself, to be honest.

Actually, in this case I would just pound it on down and cover it up, but IF I was going to pull it.......... ^^


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

I'd add... Make sure you don't hit something underground. Gas line, phone, sprinklers... All possibilities where I live.


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

clw1963 said:


> I'd add... Make sure you don't hit something underground. Gas line, phone, sprinklers... All possibilities where I live.


If you are discussing while driving yhe rod in the existing location AT 8 FEET?

On relocating WHICH I WOULD NOT DO.

Bury the old rod and buy a new one, why wrestle pulling and relocating a minimal cost rod.


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

clw1963 said:


> I'd add... Make sure you don't hit something underground. Gas line, phone, sprinklers... All possibilities where I live.


Or electric even.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Know A Little said:


> If you are discussing while driving yhe rod in the existing location AT 8 FEET?
> 
> On relocating WHICH I WOULD NOT DO.
> 
> Bury the old rod and buy a new one, why wrestle pulling and relocating a minimal cost rod.


The same reason that you would chase a paper dollar for three blocks blowing in the wind. 

It is free.

ED


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## jproffer (Mar 12, 2005)

ONE dollar??

Not me. I'd give it 20 feet, if I can't catch/stomp on it by then....F it.


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

ddawg16 said:


> Smack that baby into the ground and be done with it.
> 
> As an FYI....if you have a large voltage change if you disconnect the ground rod....something is wrong. If you are like most houses, your pole is feeding several other houses. They are also grounded. Hence, your grounded. While I would not suggest that you could leave your ground rod disconnected, I also doubt fire and brimstone would rain down on you if you did.
> 
> If it was me, I would be disconnecting it and measuring the voltage just for sh!ts and grins. In fact, I did about 2 years ago when I was working on the move of my panel. I got 0.1 volt AC from the meter to my ground rod.


dawg...every residential ground rod caries some but very small voltage. Everyone knows electricity takes the least resistance to source....but it also takes ALL paths to source.

Try this little test. Set your mutimeter to millivolts...touch one contact to the GEC and the other contact just stick in the ground anywhere.....you will record voltage. Yes, you just created another path.....


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

de-nagorg said:


> The same reason that you would chase a paper dollar for three blocks blowing in the wind.
> 
> It is free.
> 
> ED


Not me, work smarter not harder.


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

DanS26 said:


> dawg...*every* residential ground rod caries some but very small voltage. Everyone knows electricity takes the least resistance to source....but it also takes ALL paths to source.
> 
> Try this little test. Set your mutimeter to millivolts...touch one contact to the GEC and the other contact just stick in the ground anywhere.....you will record voltage. Yes, you just created another path.....


And there is where your argument falls apart you cannot say EVERY, because there are soils that will not pass current especially at 120 VAC. Then you will have services where the electrode has corroded and is non-existent, or even with soil that is acceptable the distance from the service to the utility transformer has excessive impedance and will not pass current.

Utilize a milliamp amp meter and measure current.


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

Know A Little said:


> And there is where your argument falls apart you cannot say EVERY, because there are soils that will not pass current especially at 120 VAC. Then you will have services where the electrode has corroded and is non-existent, or even with soil that is acceptable the distance from the service to the utility transformer has excessive impedance and will not pass current.
> 
> Utilize a milliamp amp meter and measure current.


Is there such a thing as matter that will not conduct? All matter has electrons and all electrons will jump if enough energy is applied.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

DanS26 said:


> dawg...every residential ground rod caries some but very small voltage. Everyone knows electricity takes the least resistance to source....but it also takes ALL paths to source.
> 
> Try this little test. Set your mutimeter to millivolts...touch one contact to the GEC and the other contact just stick in the ground anywhere.....you will record voltage. Yes, you just created another path.....


Dan....I can hold one meter probe in one hand and the other meter probe in the other hand. I will measure voltage.

I suspect you don't really understand the purpose of the GEC. In fact, grounding is a still evolving science. Look how long it took to adopt the Ufer.


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

ddawg16 said:


> Dan....I can hold one meter probe in one hand and the other meter probe in the other hand. I will measure voltage.
> 
> I suspect you don't really understand the purpose of the GEC. In fact, grounding is a still evolving science. Look how long it took to adopt the Ufer.


Are there no electricians, EE's or physicists to come to my defense? If not dawg, this thread is yours....


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Really think they would allow bare ground cable, and exposed ground rods if there was a danger of getting shocked by touching them?


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

That rod should be at least 8 feet long, pulling it out is an impossible task.

Drive it down below the ground, and then put your pavers over it.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

A ground rod or a ground field’s only purpose in life is to have a designed electrical path to dissipate a static discharge voltage (such as Lightning) to earth.

If you place a current probe around the conductor going to earth or the ground rod itself you should never see any current flowing on the conductor. If current is seen flowing on the conductor going to earth a ground fault exists. Another term that could be used is leakage current. In either case there is a parallel path back to the voltage source through the earth that creates the loop for current to flow on the earth ground conductor.


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

DanS26 said:


> Is there such a thing as matter that will not conduct? All matter has electrons and all electrons will jump if enough energy is applied.


I have test equipment that can put out 120KV and yes any insulator can be made to conduct or flash over with sufficient voltage, we do this as part of testing. But 120 VAC ain't it.


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

sublime2 said:


> A ground rod or a ground field’s only purpose in life is to have a designed electrical path to dissipate a static discharge voltage (such as Lightning) to earth.
> 
> If you place a current probe around the conductor going to earth or the ground rod itself you should never see any current flowing on the conductor. If current is seen flowing on the conductor going to earth a ground fault exists. Another term that could be used is leakage current. In either case there is a parallel path back to the voltage source through the earth that creates the loop for current to flow on the earth ground conductor.


By design the bonded neutral at the utility transformer and main service sets up a parallel path and we often see measurable current on the GEC but there are reasons for this.

Utility transformer in a vault that is part of the building the main service is housed in, there is rebar in the structures. So it does happen but at 240/120 it takes good moist soil, short distance from the service to the utility transformer.

Town houses where the services share a common electrode.


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

kbsparky said:


> That rod should be at least 8 feet long, pulling it out is an impossible task.
> 
> Drive it down below the ground, and then put your pavers over it.


:thumbsup:

With a ground rod puller on the Eastern Shore you should be able to pull a rod, my question is why bother.

I have done it as part job spec. (when I say I, I mean my employees I am not wasting my time on that)

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...i_sku=177020&gclid=CNLw9dGK9r8CFa_m7Aodc30AuA


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

DanS26 said:


> Are there no electricians, EE's or physicists to come to my defense? If not dawg, this thread is yours....


My back ground or one of my specialties is grounding, testing, trouble shooting and PQ issues related to grounding.

A factor in this is the soil type where you live

Rather than bowing out prove you case, I do believe we all are all willing to learn.

I would suggest you perform some test


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## Run and find ou (Jul 5, 2014)

Code might very well require two ground rods anyway.

Is this part of a lightning protection system?


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

Know A Little said:


> I have test equipment that can put out 120KV


DC Hi-pot?


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

clw1963 said:


> DC Hi-pot?


Correct


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Interesting, two pages of responses to drive a ground rod 6 more inches into the earth..... My, my, my........ People have way to much time, or they have never been in the field.


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## PaulBob (Dec 5, 2008)

jproffer said:


> The only way the GR could become energized is if there's a fault in the system. I guess I would loosely suggest that someone ELSE turn the power off, but I probably wouldn't do that myself, to be honest.
> 
> Actually, in this case I would just pound it on down and cover it up, but IF I was going to pull it.......... ^^


I agree completely.. I just tend to lean towards the safe side when giving advice to folks who don't know electrical... Its better that way. 

But ya.. I do agree.. I doubt anything would go wrong for the 10 minutes it takes to relocated it.


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## jproffer (Mar 12, 2005)

PaulBob said:


> I agree completely.. I just tend to lean towards the safe side when giving advice to folks who don't know electrical... Its better that way.
> 
> But ya.. I do agree.. I doubt anything would go wrong for the 10 minutes it takes to relocated it.


Fair enough :thumbsup:

A lot of times, I recommend things to other people (over and above, safety-wise) that I probably wouldn't follow myself.

"Don't push that breaker onto the buss with the main ON"....but in reality, with the whole house "on" and all the electronics and bad (or at least annoying) things that can happen, not to mention I'm in the basement and my only light would go off..............

**shrug**

Doctors make the worst patients, mechanics take the least care of their own car, and a carpenter's house is never finished.....

What can I say :wink:


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## Run and find ou (Jul 5, 2014)

*Study material*

http://ecmweb.com/bonding-amp-grounding/shocking-truth-about-grounding-electrode-conductors


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## Know A Little (Sep 29, 2013)

stickboy1375 said:


> Interesting, two pages of responses to drive a ground rod 6 more inches into the earth..... My, my, my........ People have way to much time, or they have never been in the field.


But like most threads 25% on topic 65% expanding in multiple directions and 10% lost in the ozone again


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

DanS26 said:


> Is there such a thing as matter that will not conduct? All matter has electrons and all electrons will jump if enough energy is applied.


If you want to talk physics, then there is no perfect conductor and no perfect insulator. 

In materials that are poor conductors, the various atoms hold onto their electrons in a manner that the latter cannot easily jump from atom to atom which is the definition of current flow.

There is also "dielectric strength" (possible sic). When the voltage (potential) between two energized conductive elements is great enough relative to the dielectric strength of a material in between, current may jump (arc) right through the intervening material. (The electrons finally make the jump from atom to atom.) The heat melts or burns or punctures the "insulating" material in between and a possibly chemically changed material in between could be a better conductor than what was there initially causing the current flow to increase. (Or the space in between now occupied only by air, is more conductive than with the original material separating the energized elements.)


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