# leaking deck



## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

I thought I had a plumbing leak under my house but a plumber came out and said it's coming from my deck where it attaches to the house. I know that there is rubberish feeling flashing behind the ledger and it goes above it and under the first piece of siding and below the ledger by an inch or so. How can water be leaking through? The bolts that stick through under the house have moisture on them. Can all that water be coming from the bolt holes? It's probably a 10' long section under the house that is wet from above the concrete foundation and to the insulation that is soaking wet. I took down a lot of the wet insulation already. The sub floor above the insulation is even wet but I think it's a sponge affect from the insulation soaking up all the water. 

Any tips?


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

nikeman said:


> I thought I had a plumbing leak under my house but a plumber came out and said it's coming from my deck where it attaches to the house. I know that there is rubberish feeling flashing behind the ledger and it goes above it and under the first piece of siding and below the ledger by an inch or so. How can water be leaking through? The bolts that stick through under the house have moisture on them. Can all that water be coming from the bolt holes? It's probably a 10' long section under the house that is wet from above the concrete foundation and to the insulation that is soaking wet. I took down a lot of the wet insulation already. The sub floor above the insulation is even wet but I think it's a sponge affect from the insulation soaking up all the water.
> 
> Any tips?


Ayuh,.... Ya left out the other 1/2 of yer Plumber's statement 'bout yer water problem,.....

Why did ya start another thread,..??
Yer other thread already has much more Info in it,....

I'd pull out whatever wet stuff ya can, dry out the area, 'n then see where the waters comin' from, if it ain't already fixed,...

If ya want to Test the leakin' deck theory,...
Grab yer hose, 'n pound the area ya think is leakin' with a stream of water, while somebody is inside, Lookin',.....


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

A water test will work wonders here.

Flexible flashing tape is good but metal should always go over the top. Those flashing tapes are never intended to be a primary stop and often pull away and fail.

Might be time to pull back some siding and pull up a few deck boards.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... Ya left out the other 1/2 of yer Plumber's statement 'bout yer water problem,.....
> 
> Why did ya start another thread,..??
> Yer other thread already has much more Info in it,....
> ...


I started a new one since it's no longer a plumbing issue. Plumber said it could have been from the dishwasher leak but that's been over a month ago and there is a lot of water in the insulation and wall. 

The back of my house has a 15 or so foot section of gutters on either side and the middle has no gutters since the roof is different over the upstairs bathroom. The water under the house seems to be just the section where gutters aren't there. I'll have to take some pictures one day that I'm actually home when the sun is out. I also plan to just turn the hose on at the edge of the deck and go under the house to see if it's raining under there.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Is it possible for all that water to get under the house via the bolts? If so should I spray each bolt head with that liquid sealer you see on tv or something similar?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

The bolts aren't usually the leak spots. The ledger flashing is normally the issue.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

If it's the flashing can I install the z flashing over the ledger and up under the siding? They sell 10' sections for $10 at hd so that seems like a cheap easy fix. Maybe to easy.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Gotta pull it back to install it either way so you are pulling up siding as a default.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Windows on Wash said:


> Gotta pull it back to install it either way so you are pulling up siding as a default.


I pulled off the second to last piece of siding a few days ago just to see so it's fairly easy to remove. The guy used screws on the bottom piece of siding so I'll have to remove those and then I'll be able to do as I wish I guess. The hard part will be taking up the first row of deck boards since the screws are sunk into the boards to where I can't see some of them. And it's a tight space against the house. 

I'll do the water test Sunday

If I go with the z flashing how does that install? The pictures online don't show holes for nails or anything. Here's a link 
http://m.homedepot.com/p/10-ft-Galvanized-Steel-Siding-Z-Flash-17837/202526104/


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Good luck with it. Be sure to take pictures as plenty of folks and future readers will have this problem. 

You can be a trailblazer.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> * The pictures online don't show holes for nails or anything.*


Ayuh,.... Nails, 'n screws make their own holes in the flashin', when ya sink 'em,....


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Is there anything else inline with that leak, window, door, etc.....?


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## hardtroofing (Feb 4, 2015)

I have seen this many times and unfortunately the first thing I tell the client is "lets see if it's flashed" I already know that the carpenters either used the thin aluminum or nothing at all. I have seen where people try using sealants usually never works. I like Grace ice-and-water shield it is extremely sticky, and then install coil stock z flashing, reinstall the lumber, and siding. This system is timely and pricy but you know you wont be back ,it's done.
Be proud,


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

It's flashed with vinyl flashing. I remember buying the huge roll of the stuff and only needing 30 foot. I'm going to do a hose test if it's not raining Sunday and go from there. There is no door along the area it's leaking but the door way off to the side of it I think has some damage since the door jam moves around when you step on it. I need to check that out also.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Finally got another chance to go look again with no snow or freezing winds. It's def. Coming from the deck. I took some pictures of the siding/j - channel above where it's leaking. I can't see anything wrong with it but I'm not siding expert. The vinyl flashing is wet along the same section it's wet under the house but only the outside. If I put my hand behind it where it sticks out below the ledger it's dry underneath.


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## hardtroofing (Feb 4, 2015)

you need to remove a deck board so we can see what's going on


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## hardtroofing (Feb 4, 2015)

and possibly pull siding out of the j channel and take a pic of that as wel


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ok. Calling for snow again today. I'll get some pictures as soon as I can.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Nikeman, when you get ready to remove the deck board, I have found that sometimes it makes it a lot easier to remove the second board first, so it gives you room to work on the board next to the home. If the nails /screws are sunk, you can usually get a pry bar between the joist and the board to raise it up a little, then pound it back down to expose the heads. If that doesn't work, cut the board in sections along the joist lines between the joist bays, and remove the 1.5" affixed to the joist.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

I know how to remove the siding but not to sure about the j channel....


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

ZTMAN said:


> Nikeman, when you get ready to remove the deck board, I have found that sometimes it makes it a lot easier to remove the second board first, so it gives you room to work on the board next to the home. If the nails /screws are sunk, you can usually get a pry bar between the joist and the board to raise it up a little, then pound it back down to expose the heads. If that doesn't work, cut the board in sections along the joist lines between the joist bays, and remove the 1.5" affixed to the joist.


Good tip. The deck is 30' long so I'll have to remove quite a few boards going against the house and the 2nd row also. I need a dry not freezing day that I'm not working, at school, or home alone with the kids. Few and far between. Lol


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm chiming in late here folks, but I'm willing to bet that the ledger is fastened tight to the house with nowhere for the melting snow and water to go but inside.

I've seen this over and over again when they just slam the deck up against the house and rely on a Box Store gimmick to protect your home.
The ledger and decking should always be spaced at least 3/4" away from the house.
It's more work, but it's the right way.
Looking forward to seeing your pics of the deck/house connection.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

tcleve4911 said:


> I'm chiming in late here folks, but I'm willing to bet that the ledger is fastened tight to the house with nowhere for the melting snow and water to go but inside.
> 
> I've seen this over and over again when they just slam the deck up against the house and rely on a Box Store gimmick to protect your home.
> The ledger and decking should always be spaced at least 3/4" away from the house.
> ...


From what I remember the siding was removed and a couple rows of vinyl flashing were put on, then the ledger so I think your right. It was leaking well before we got any snow though. It's rain getting in some kinda way. I may just hire someone to take care of it for me since I don't have the time.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

I just tried to set my hose up on the deck to do a test and turned the water on and went under the house. I was surprised not to see ant water at all. Then I went up on the deck to check the hose and apparently it's frozen and no water was coming out. So much for that test today.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Did the hose test and let it run for a while and I did not see any water coming under the house. I even left the upstairs bath tub and sink on and no leak. I'll still check under the first deck board when I get a chance though. It's mind boggling


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

One way for water is side was flashed, ledger nailed on, bolt hole drilled and bolt installed. Standard and easy way. The ledger is tight against the flashing and melt water is not draining. It is a dam. That water is traveling through the bolt holes. Would be easy enough to confirm from inside. Look for wettest spot.
As posted already, spacer would help, but there must be flashing on top of the ledger and such flashing must also stop sideways water between laps of the flashing.
Fix is:
Remove 12" of siding. If its frozen, I'd wait till weather is warmer. Mean time, open inside ceiling/wall and look for wet insulation. 
Keep in mind the ends of the ledger should be flashed on wall side so the draining water does not touch the wood building materials. All flashing at such points should overlap the concrete by an inch. Don't use the house wrap as flashing.
Remove 2 courses of decking. Now the corner is exposed and you should see the top edges of the ledger and joists.
I would not use vinyl flashing - in fact, I don't know what it looks like, and I probably ignored it if I saw one at homedepot - vinyl may crack just from the pressure of nailing on the deck.
These days, using metal is problem with new chemicals in the treated wood. I think the best compromise is cover that corner with rubber flashing then install heavy duty aluminum flashing. Both flashing goes under the house wrap.


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## hardtroofing (Feb 4, 2015)

Still need pics of what's going on so we can help you


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

hardtroofing said:


> Still need pics of what's going on so we can help you


I know. Time is a hot ticket item in my life currently so I just gotta wait for my chance. I'll get pics ASAP so hopefully I can fix it myself.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

I attempted to take off the deck boards but some of the screws are so deep that I couldn't even find them with my drill or screw driver and others I was just going to strip out because I couldn't get the bit in them all the way. The guy must have used an impact driver and just went crazy with it. I'm willing to bet some screws went all the way through the deck board


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I would be willing to bet it's the electrical socket.?


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

ron45 said:


> I would be willing to bet it's the electrical socket.?


That is sealed up pretty good and the area of wetness under the house is to wide. I just need to find a contractor with better tools to take care of it for me I think.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

These will expose your screws. Worth the 3.49 dollars at HF


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

ZTMAN said:


> These will expose your screws. Worth the 3.49 dollars at HF


Gotta link to them?


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

link:

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-plug-cutter-set-6956.html

The also make drill bits, hollow in the middle, cutting teeth on the end, to cut a hole around a screw or nail that is counter sunk too far


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

ZTMAN said:


> link:
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-plug-cutter-set-6956.html
> 
> The also make drill bits, hollow in the middle, cutting teeth on the end, to cut a hole around a screw or nail that is counter sunk too far


Thanks. I'll look into those. I love getting new tools!


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

I just took the bottom piece if siding off and found extra j channel inside the existing all the way down the section that's leaking. It's just sitting in there behind the siding. Whats the reasoning for this? Should I take it out?


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Here's pictures. You can see the flashing an inch of so above the attached j channel also. It's aluminum which is good. The section sticking below the ledger is black vinyl so I guess there's 2 layers of flashing.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm looking right at your leak in the last picture, can't you see it?

That other piece is just a siding scrap used to push that cut first piece of siding out to the front of the J, just so it will look better.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> I'm looking right at your leak in the last picture, can't you see it?
> 
> That other piece is just a siding scrap used to push that cut first piece of siding out to the front of the J, just so it will look better.


I don't see it. The leak starts after that corner and is about 10' long. What do you see that I dont? Where the different color flashing is is where the original stair case was and the 2 x board that held the hand rail was screwed into the siding and into the house. I guess they put that flashingit up for that reason.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

What I see is the sheathing on the house with no housewrap on it and the wrap/flashing detail that is there is done very poorly at best.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> What I see is the sheathing on the house with no housewrap on it and the wrap/flashing detail that is there is done very poorly at best.


I'm guessing the builders cheaped out when they built my house because they did not put any wrap on it at all.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

nikeman said:


> I'm guessing the builders cheaped out when they built my house because they did not put any wrap on it at all.


If that's the case I'm sure you have more than one leak, whether you can see them or not.

IMHPO...all of the siding needs to come off of the house so all of the weather barrier and flashing details can be inspected and corrected. 

Lucky for you that with vinyl siding that's a relatively easy thing to do and if done correctly all of the siding should be able to be reused.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

One guy said to connect the 2 sides so a gutter goes all the way across the back of the house. Another guy said the ledger needs to come off. I like the second idea better and basically converting the deck to a free standing and reflashing it all. Problem is, that sounds hard and expensive. 

Live and learn I guess. Now any idea what price I'm looking at? Guy was a handyman and said it was to big of a job for him but he'd recommend people to me.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

nikeman said:


> One guy said to connect the 2 sides so a gutter goes all the way across the back of the house. Another guy said the ledger needs to come off. I like the second idea better and basically converting the deck to a free standing and reflashing it all. Problem is, that sounds hard and expensive.
> 
> Live and learn I guess. Now any idea what price I'm looking at? Guy was a handyman and said it was to big of a job for him but he'd recommend people to me.


Neither of those options address the real issue of the fact that the siding installation was done wrong to begin with. 

The only fix is to do what that guy on the internet told you even if you only do that one side of the house. The folks that looked at the job and gave you those two recommendations don't have a clue. Find a real siding guy (may be tough in an area where no housewrap is considered acceptable).

BTW.....removing siding and correcting the wb and flashing issues would likely be less expensive than remodeling the deck which would solve nothing.

The only reason to remove the ledger would be if it was necessary to repair the rot behind it.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> Neither of those options address the real issue of the fact that the siding installation was done wrong to begin with.
> 
> The only fix is to do what that guy on the internet told you even if you only do that one side of the house. The folks that looked at the job and gave you those two recommendations don't have a clue. Find a real siding guy (may be tough in an area where no housewrap is considered acceptable).
> 
> ...


What I'm stuck on is that the house was built in 1999 and it never leaked until soon after the deck was put on. I removed 2 pieces of siding above the deck and the wall is bone dry above the deck. Unless the guy stole my house wrap when building the deck then it's been like that for 16 years with no issue. 

I want to fix the issue before the wood rots and I don't want to spend tons of money on the wrong thing and still have the leak issue and no money left. I'm assuming it would cost a couple thousand to take down the siding, wrap, and put it back up. 

The first guy pointed out that the siding with no gutter section is growing more mildew and the corner of the back door not under the gutter is a little rotted. That's why he thinks connecting the 2 sides of gutters would work. Obviously I'm clueless here.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Anytime you see an electrical socket done like that, It's a big red flag.....


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

nikeman said:


> What I'm stuck on is that the house was built in 1999 and it never leaked until soon after the deck was put on. I removed 2 pieces of siding above the deck and the wall is bone dry above the deck. Unless the guy stole my house wrap when building the deck then it's been like that for 16 years with no issue.
> 
> I want to fix the issue before the wood rots and I don't want to spend tons of money on the wrong thing and still have the leak issue and no money left. I'm assuming it would cost a couple thousand to take down the siding, wrap, and put it back up.
> 
> The first guy pointed out that the siding with no gutter section is growing more mildew and the corner of the back door not under the gutter is a little rotted. That's why he thinks connecting the 2 sides of gutters would work. Obviously I'm clueless here.


Can you post a picture showing that whole wall (deck to roof)?


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Tomorrow if I remember after clinical I will. 

I have a company coming out Monday to discuss pricing. They plan to take down the ledger and flash everything up to code because it is not to code currently and then convert it to free standing. I may have them replace my back door with an outswing door while they are doing the work in that area already if I have the money. Probably gonna be well over $1000 mistake I made 2 years ago. Live and learn I guess.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

First real estimate was $3000 from a good company. That's double what I had in mind. The proposal says they will add 5 6x6 posts and 2x12 beams to the front of the deck, remove 30' ledger, and reflash house to code. I'm guessing they will also replace insulation and other damaged areas. 

Or for $975 they will remove deck boards, reflash deck to code and not repair any thing including the insulation that got wet. Prices sound fair to you guys as contractors?


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Sounds cheap to me. 

For us to come out remove everything reflash and put back together, off the top of my head that's 3+ days for two guys, plus materials 3k sounds really cheap.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Not that you need a bunch of reinforcement but that price seems quite fair.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

They quoted 1 week for labor and suggested that I connect the 2 sections of gutters so the gutters go all the way across the house. Doing that brings cost to $5000 and I just don't think I would like how that looked.


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## nikeman (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks guys. I finally got ahold of another well known company in the area and hes coming tomorrow morning. I need more than 1 estimate to feel more confident about paying so much money. Im just praying the seal plate is not rotted out already but we wont know until the ledger comes off.


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## Grandpa3 (Jul 4, 2016)

Along the same lines, there is a product I have seen on DIY network on Decked Out that lies over the joists, under the decking that directs water away and into the surrounding land area. It looks like the underlayment used on roofing, but is orange in color. I do not know the name or company that produces it but if anyone else does I would appreciate the information. I am replacing a deck and do not want to run into the same issue with water that this gentleman has.


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