# Primer over old plaster and new joint compound?



## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Once you clean the paste off the walls and skim/patch any spots you want, you can put on a coat of Gardz over everything. No other primer is needed. You might want to sand everything first.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> Once you clean the paste off the walls and skim/patch any spots you want, you can put on a coat of Gardz over everything. No other primer is needed. You might want to sand everything first.



Hi Jeff,
Thanks for responding.

Are there any primers other then Gardz you would recommend for this just in case I can't find it locally?

I used Valspar PVA 2 years ago and wasn't happy with it on plaster as it didn't seem like it adhered to it well. I'm hoping to do better this time.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

You can look into Roman Rx-35 and Kilz Klear also. My local Benjamin Moore store carries Gardz, not sure about yours. Sherwin Williams carries Rx-35, and Home Depot carries Kilz Klear.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> You can look into Roman Rx-35 and Kilz Klear also. My local Benjamin Moore store carries Gardz, not sure about yours. Sherwin Williams carries Rx-35, and Home Depot carries Kilz Klear.


What are your thoughts on the cheap PVA stuff out there? Were my results typical?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cj133 said:


> What are your thoughts on the cheap PVA stuff out there? Were my results typical?


That it is cheap and your results are typical.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Stick with the Gardz. You had wallpaper paste that can very well reactivate when you go to paint and cause bubbling.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Have never been happy with PVA primer.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> You can look into Roman Rx-35 and Kilz Klear also. My local Benjamin Moore store carries Gardz, not sure about yours. Sherwin Williams carries Rx-35, and Home Depot carries Kilz Klear.


So I've tried to track down Gardz locally and no luck. Called our local BM store and they don't have it either.

Which would you say is better, the Roman RX-35 or the Kilz Klear? I have a SW store I can check out if the RX-35 is better.


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## DaFish (Mar 23, 2014)

I just removed wallpaper and had to skimcoat the ceiling and walls. I asked here in this forum and the replies I got were all overwhelmingly for Gardz. I returned the Rx-35 I bought from the depot and ordered the Gardz from Amazon because I couldn't find it anywhere locally. It was on my doorstep in 3 days and it was probably the best advice I've gotten. I applied it on the bare walls after removing the wallpaper and couldn't remove all the glue, then I did 2 skim coats over it, Gardz again, primer, then paint. Worked awesome and I couldn't be happier with the results. Get the Gardz if you can. You won't regret it.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I suspect the Roman would be better, but I'm mostly guessing.

Regarding DaFish's comments, there's certainly no reason to apply a primer coat after the second coat of Gardz. If you sand any remaining residual paste, then apply Gardz directly over it, if it's smooth enough, you're good to paint. If you feel the need to skim coat first, then a second coat of Gardz after skim coating is plenty.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

http://www.worldpaintsupply.com/zinsser-gardz-problem-surface-sealer-1-gallon/


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## DaFish (Mar 23, 2014)

jeffnc said:


> I suspect the Roman would be better, but I'm mostly guessing.
> 
> Regarding DaFish's comments, there's certainly no reason to apply a primer coat after the second coat of Gardz. If you sand any remaining residual paste, then apply Gardz directly over it, if it's smooth enough, you're good to paint. If you feel the need to skim coat first, then a second coat of Gardz after skim coating is plenty.


Yeah the extra coat of primer might have been overkill, but it's a small kitchen, I had the extra primer, and I figured it wouldn't hurt. Regardless, it all worked out great for me. 

And BTW, if anyone is a first time skim coater like I was, I did the traditional method for the first coat which I wasn't thrilled with, then I figured I'd try a paint roller to apply the second coat. Skimmed with a regular 12" taping knife. Roller method was awesome. May not be everybody else's suggestion, but it worked great for me.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Once you've tried using a roller, I think there's really no other reasonable option. I far prefer this for skim coating.
http://www.all-wall.com/Marshalltown-Drywall-Squeegee.html


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## DaFish (Mar 23, 2014)

I was gonna try that Magic Trowel too, but I was talked out of it/couldn't find it locally/didn't have time to order it, so I didn't. I think if I ever have to skim coat again, I'll use the paint roller and Magic Trowel method.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

DaFish did you actually try the RX-35 before the Gardz or did you just take it back?
I don't mind buying the Gardz online and paying shipping, as long as it's truly a better product.


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## DaFish (Mar 23, 2014)

No I didn't try it. I was gonna, but like I said, it was overwhelmingly suggested to me to not use that and try to find the Gardz. I also looked elsewhere on the net because I couldn't believe there was that much of a difference between the two. Everywhere else I looked, they all suggested Gardz over the Rx-35. I figured since I had no idea, I'd play it safe and go with what just about everybody else suggested. I'm not saying the Rx-35 doesn't work, I'm just saying I played it safe and I don't regret it. Whatever you decide, best of luck.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

I ended up buying a gallon of RX-35. I'l let everyone know how it goes.

I think I know the answer, but, being the primer allegedly seals wallpaper glue do I still have to go nuts trying to wash all of it off or can I just prime assuming the walls are smooth and relatively clean?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Well the point of a paste residue sealer is that you don't have to "go nuts" getting all the residue off. I assume you wetted it and scraped the bulk of it off.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I would still clean the paste off pretty well. The first time I used Gardz I tried to skimp on removal and it didn't turn out well. 

After removing the paper I allowed the walls to dry. Then we sanded thoroughly with an orbital and wiped the walls down with water. There was no visible paste on the surface, and after the Gardz everything looked fine. 

But after panting spots like this appeared in several places.

I was counting on the Gardz to seal the paste, but in retrospect I should have scraped/scrubbed the walls while they were still wet. 

Gardz is a fine product, but it does have limitations.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

rx-35 was ( is ) made to be a primer for wall covering, I would not rely on it working like Gardz does because it will not, trust me
I know what it says on the can:whistling2:


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

chrisn said:


> rx-35 was ( is ) made to be a primer for wall covering, I would not rely on it working like Gardz does because it will not, trust me
> I know what it says on the can:whistling2:



Well, that has me confused because this is right from Roman's website.

"Rx-35 Sealer/Primer repairs torn drywall to create a wall surface that can be floated, spackled, *painted or hung with wallpaper*. It is also the perfect primer for skim coats, spackling, residual paste, popcorn ceilings, contractors flat paint or mud joints. It dries with a slight residual tack, *enhancing adhesion of wallpaper or paint."*

Now I realize that doesn't mean it's a good as Gardz, but it seems like it wasn't just meant for wall coverings at least going by that. I did also notice that it appears Roman's website is mainly aimed at wallpaper products so I'm not sure what to think.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

just do it right and go with the Gardz
that is all


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cj, if you read this forum, you will read lots of dogma. There are very few people who make informed decisions after truly objective, practical experience (experiment, whatever you want to call it.) (jmays does this a lot - you can tell by the the pictures he posts and the different combinations he tries and his objective reports.) For most other people, you'll just have to take their word for it. Or not. You can't believe everything you read, because some people have pretty piss poor reasons for believing what they do. On the other hand, there is something to be said for getting good results and sticking with it, and trying new things all the time be damned.

In lieu of actually trying all the products under controlled conditions, you'll just have to make your best call. I think I've used Roman once, Klear once, and Gardz a bunch of times. They each worked each time I used them. I can't tell you which is better. If it were me, I'd search the web for other feedback, and then tend to trust the general consensus. Roman will probably do what it says it does, until you have reason to believe otherwise.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

I chickened out and took the RX-35 back.
I decided to go with Kilz original oil based primer, like a man. :whistling2:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

cj133 said:


> I chickened out and took the RX-35 back.
> I decided to go with Kilz original oil based primer, like a man. :whistling2:


 
that's as manly as you can get:laughing:


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Hope you also got a respirator.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> Hope you also got a respirator.


 Been around many people using oil based paint especially on commercial jobs and don't recall ever seeing anyone wearing a respirator. Will have open windows with a fan running on low to get some air flowing through the room. 

I also have a feeling this stuff isn't near as nasty as urethane paint. For that I'd wear a respirator.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

cj133 said:


> Been around many people using oil based paint especially on commercial jobs and don't recall ever seeing anyone wearing a respirator. Will have open windows with a fan running on low to get some air flowing through the room.
> 
> I also have a feeling this stuff isn't near as nasty as urethane paint. For that I'd wear a respirator.


 
if you are using Kilz oil(original) without a respirator, you are doing irreversible damage to the brain, liver, kidneys, etc. Get a respirator or switch to Coverstain

Or not, I don't really care


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Kilz original has a stronger odor than any regular oil based I have ever used. I quit using it years ago just for that reason. Maybe they changed it.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

chrisn said:


> if you are using Kilz oil(original) without a respirator, you are doing irreversible damage to the brain, liver, kidneys, etc. Get a respirator or switch to Coverstain
> 
> Or not, I don't really care





ToolSeeker said:


> Kilz original has a stronger odor than any regular oil based I have ever used. I quit using it years ago just for that reason. Maybe they changed it.



Well,

Can't argue with that.

Will do as suggested. Respirator it is.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

So, first coat of primer on the ceiling and it actually looks really good.
Thing is there are some spots that are showing through the primer.

Should I do a second coat, or will the top coat hide those spots? I seem to recall a discussion about this regarding primer but don't know how to proceed especially since I used an oil based primer.

If I need to hit those spots again I will when I prime the walls.

Currently waiting for the wife to get back with a respirator because this stuff is no joke, as others said. I got impatient and figured I could do the ceiling fine with some ventilation and was right, but I'm not going back in there without the respirator. Luckily the room is only 13x9, can't imagine doing a large room without protection.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Always remember primer will not cover like paint. It is normal to see thru the primer in places, a second coat should not be necessary. Primers job is adhesion not coverage.


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## Mlc4 (8 mo ago)

DaFish said:


> I just removed wallpaper and had to skimcoat the ceiling and walls. I asked here in this forum and the replies I got were all overwhelmingly for Gardz. I returned the Rx-35 I bought from the depot and ordered the Gardz from Amazon because I couldn't find it anywhere locally. It was on my doorstep in 3 days and it was probably the best advice I've gotten. I applied it on the bare walls after removing the wallpaper and couldn't remove all the glue, then I did 2 skim coats over it, Gardz again, primer, then paint. Worked awesome and I couldn't be happier with the results. Get the Gardz if you can. You won't regret it.


Did you Gardz over original plaster? Over oil based paint (which was under the wall paper?)


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