# Proper way to deal with ridging?



## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I have ridging of the seams in my stairwell wall that goes from the first floor to second. It's a high wall that goes from the ceiling on the second floor all the way down to the stairs. Their is a prominent line where the drywall meets between the floors. Most sites I found while searching say to lightly sand the seam down, but not to damage the paper. But the paper is bulging out so this is going to make the repair less than perfect. 

Would it be ok to tear out the paper tape and shave out a little bit of material from each piece of drywall making about a 1/8 inch gap? The cause of ridging is supposedly the two pieces push up against each other and then are forced outward so I figure if I get rid of the drywall that touches the other piece it might help. But will filling this with compound go back to the same issue?

General pic for reference:


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You have a problem there that will keep coming back---the drywall sheets should have spanned over the floor joist connections---
those transitions move a lot seasonally ---lousy place for a drywall seam---

If you want to do a temporary patch and fill--then do as you proposed--no harm will be done---but it will fail again.

the only way I have found to repair that sort of a moving seam is to cut the drywall out----and move the seam above and below the joists--depending on the situation--I might remove a 4 foot wide piece---and span the moving structural members---


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

If it was movement it would be cracked. If you can see the tape and it is bulging it sounds to me like a bad mud job done with a too small a knife. You may be able to just add 2 more coats of mud and feather each out farther. When done you should be about a foot on either side of the seam. 

Those should be tapered seams so you shouldn't have to cut anything out. A couple pics would really help. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.


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## scottktmrider (Jul 1, 2012)

I have seen a lot of house's where that is a problem.when you hang from the top down it just allways falls on that rim joist, I would 'v' it out and use some durabound to set the ttape.That would would be the easiest,


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I can't see the tape normally, but I tried to sand it down lightly at one point and it exposed some tape. I fixed it once before and it returned, so I'm thinking if I take a little material out between the sheets it might leave enough room where they don't press on each other. 

Other issue is that this is a modular so they used a 2 foot sheet where the boxes meet. So I have two seams doing this across the stairwell on two walls. I'm tempted to tear out a 4 foot section, but I know modulars tend to use glue and screws. I'm afraid of the nightmare I might encounter trying to remove glued drywall since I've never tried it before.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

OK drywall sheets are made to go together that's why they have tapered edges. If I understand correctly what you want to do I think your going to open a can of worms.

Since these are hung vertical if the framing in your house was perfect, absolutely perfect, and since studs are 1 1/2" wide that would mean each sheet is on 3/4" side of the stud. Now for example mark 3/4" on a piece of paper. Now put the top of a drywall screw in the center between the lines. 

Doesn't leave much room to cut a Vee does it. Now I can almost guarantee your framing is not perfect, so just come in from 1 side 1/8." And again if i'm understanding correctly to remove the piece where they meet would be worse because where the boxes meet is an off angle and a bear to tape and mud.

This really sounds like a bad mud job and too remove the old tape and re-tape and mud is all you need. Now having said that remember you are there, I am not, Something else that makes me think this is you said you did a light sanding and saw tape. Ideally there should be 3 coats of mud on the tape. It doesn't sound like there is. 

A couple pics might help.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Your plan does not sound good. You are probably not sanding drywall paper, but joint tape paper. There was probably a bulge in the joint paper. Taking out the paper and retaping that joint would certainly fix that problem. Personally, I'd just add more joint compound, tapering it out with a 12" knife. That would solve the problem visually. Pics would help, but if there is no cracking, you probably don't have structural issues or movement at that seam.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes, I'm talking about tape, not the drywall paper itself. 

Sheets are hung horizontally, but I doubt these are tapered edges as the middle band is a 2 foot sheet. I've torn out the tape and redid the entire seam and it returned. This is why I'm thinking I need to shave some space between the sheets to relieve a little pressure.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

A little pressure from what? If these sheets are installed Horiz. and the seam goes all the way up this is called railroading and is a no no. A 2' belly band is a large one. No it's not tapered edges but when we do them if the drywall is 1/2" then the band is 3/8". This puts a tapered edge against an untapped one so using the smaller size gives something to fill in.

If they used the same size rock for the band you are dealing with long butt joints, which are one of the hardest things to tape and make disappear.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I agree with ToolSeeker - there should be no pressure between drywall edges, and the ridge is most likely a taping issue. If you're using paper tape, this sort of bulge happens often enough as the paper gets wet, warps, and then dries that way. Using a tape such as FibaFuse would eliminate that issue, if that is the issue, but anyway just judicious tapering with compound should solve the problem. Pics needed.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I tried taking pics, but you can't see the issue in them. The seams I'm talking about are horizontal. It is fairly common to get ridging on stairs because of pressure between sheets. I'm not making this up, researched it a lot while trying to find a solution. I've seen on stick built homes more than once. I'm just figuring if I take some material out between the sheets it might fix it. It's probably not just a tape issue as it developed over months the first time and returned slowly over months the second time.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I've never heard of it. Why don't you give a couple links. Hard drywall compound doesn't slowly ridge up over time - it can only crack. It's not malleable, so I'm curious what effect you're referring to.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I will when I get a chance, but the pic in the first post is showing it. Some parts of mine show hairline cracking.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I mean photo


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

What you are saying makes no sense. If the sheets are hung horiz. the sheets are on top of each other. No mud can get between them so no mud can squeeze out. I know if it's on the internet it must be true. 

This could be something so minor as the tape is on backwards, the ridge to the outside. One question with this pressure on the seams what happens when you cut your groove? With this pressure won't they slide together.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Some info here, second paragraph under "issues":

http://support.sbcindustry.com/images/technotes/T-GypsumInstallation09.pdf


And here is rec for fixing, but that's not working for me. 


http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GA-221-2000.pdf


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> What you are saying makes no sense. If the sheets are hung horiz. the sheets are on top of each other. No mud can get between them so no mud can squeeze out. I know if it's on the internet it must be true.
> 
> This could be something so minor as the tape is on backwards, the ridge to the outside. One question with this pressure on the seams what happens when you cut your groove? With this pressure won't they slide together.


The pressure is from expansion from seasonal changes. I'm not claiming to be an expert on this, just stating what I read from many sources including the gypsum association. I've installed drywall with the pieces way too close together and never had issues. For some reason on large walls like stairs it becomes a problem. I got the house brand new in Dec of 08 and the walls were perfectly smooth. Within months they started getting thin lines across these seams. It kept getting worse and worse until I fixed it 2 years later. It slowly returned and now looks just as bad as it did before.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Also, it's so bad in some cases that the gypsum association recommends installing an ugly expansion joint in stairwell walls.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the links. They certainly sound authoritative.

Having said that, I'm reading some of it, but having a hard time believing it. Certainly seasonal changes and expansion/contraction occur - we all know that. What I'm having a hard time with is the description of ridging. It just defies common sense. Once dry, joint compound is hard and non-flexible. It is not caulk. If it were compressed, it just defies common sense that it would "bulge". Just put a hard, dry piece of joint compound in a vice and turn it. It's not going to bulge up like rubber, it's going to crack and get smashed. I would expect to see it pushing up or bulging but also cracking and breaking if it happened on a wall. I simply don't see how this is physically possible for joint compound to form a ridge without cracking.

Anyway, you say you followed the recommendation in the 2nd link but it's not working for you. Unless I missed it, you were asking about cutting down the drywall, but in the link it simply says to do what we suggested - add more joint compound and feather it out.

However, I don't see how this will help long term. If it is going through cycles strong enough to compress it, then it's going to crack and form a gap after that, and then compress again after that.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I did what the link said and it didn't work which is why I'm now asking about a new method. I'm ocd about drywall looking good, so I'm trying to figure this out before I end up tearing out two whole walls. 

To help you understand, just picture how a mountain range is formed from tectonic plates moving. The compound is cracking, it's just not visible on the surface because the paint is somewhat containing it. I'll try to get pics with a real camera because my cell phone ones aren't showing anything. 

Are you saying the links don't sound legit(sarcasm doesn't come across well, so maybe you're being serious)? It's in the AGA handbook as a real thing and if you google it tons comes up. I've also seen it in other homes. 

Thanks for the help so far.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Perhaps you're not thinking of what mountain ranges actually look like up close. They absolutely don't look like smooth drywall ridged seams. "They rise up as the crust collides, cracks, crumbles, folds, and spews." "...mountains form when stresses within and between the tectonic plates lead to cracking and faulting of the Earth's surface"

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/earth/surface-of-the-earth/mountains-article/

The links look legit. And I've seen what looks like ridging before, I just didn't attribute it to this effect. We've all seen cracking either by compression or separation. And we've all seen smooth ridges which appear to be ridged joint tape. i.e. it appears to have been created that way. But until a materials scientist can explain to me how dried joint compound can bulge up into a smooth, round ridge, and not look like that mountain range above, I remain skeptical.

It would normally look like this
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...366460666-horizontal-drywall-cracks-image.jpg

http://www.nachi.org/images10-2/compression-cracks-2.jpg

http://www.diychatroom.com/attachme...ywall-cracking-seams-family-room-p1160002.jpg


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

And to answer your question, I personally can't think of any real solution (short of changing your framing) other than adding an expansion joint there.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Mine looks similar to the third pic you posted. I guess my idea is really the last thing to try before replacing drywall completely. Now that the house is almost 6 years old maybe it will work better.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

And as far as the mountain comment, I never said they were smooth. I said they were cracked compound underneath, but contained by the paint.


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## rdarlin2 (Nov 25, 2013)

I've go the same problem in my stairwell with a horizontal ridge about 3" above the 2'nd floor level (1970's construction).. DSCN0399.jpg

In addition, I've got bumps in the wall where you can see drywall nails are poking up or drawing out.
DSCN0398.jpg
It seems like settling of the home over the years has put stress on (only) this section of walls in the house??

I plan to use drywall screws 'near' the existing bumps - then hammer those back down... hopefully with the screws holding the drywall tight to the studs, the nails won't 'back out' again. I'm afraid if I 'dig' the nails out I'll cause more structural damage than I want. What do you think? Can I leave the old nails there?

For the ridge, I'll probably sand/cut out some of the joint and rebuild it to flatten the area.

Thanks for your comments...
Rich


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

That's exactly what my ridging looks like. Post what happens when you sand them. I have a feeling you're going to hit the tape(assuming that's traditional drywall).

As far as the nail pops. Use screws near them, about two inches away and then either remove the nail or bang it back in. Those should be easy to deal with. The ridging is the annoying part.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Go back and reread my post----I have made those dissapear many times-----


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## gdc (Aug 17, 2014)

*Proper way to deal with ridging*

Oh mike is right. After looking at the picture i understand it better. I wouldn't say compression is the problem its the placement of the joint. Theres a beam joists plate studs a lot going on in a small area. Same reason we don't put seams/joints over doors or windows. Also just a question, was the crease of the tape facing in or out.:yes:


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Seams are very often over doors and windows.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

When ever a seam is placed over major framing members there is a chance of the seam opening----if the seam is repaired and opens again, it is time to move that seam away from the moving framing member.

I get called in to fix the difficult failures--after someone else has attempted a fix----most often,I cut out the offending seam with a cut 32" or 48" and move the new seams to an area that is not prone to movement---


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

mikegp said:


> Seams are very often over doors and windows.


True, and usually isn't a problem with windows if it's on a cripple in the center of the opening, or better yet, a header. Still isn't the best practice, and I simply won't do it over a door.:no:


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

mikegp said:


> Seams are very often over doors and windows.




And more often than crack over time.


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