# Ceiling compound keeps falling down



## NewHomeOwner2020 (Mar 17, 2021)

Hi all. We’ve had this one bedroom ceiling repaired multiple times by contractors and this issue seems to recur again and again very few years.

The ceiling was once a popcorn ceiling. It was scraped down, and skim coated with joint compound about 8 years ago.

About three years ago, the ceiling started cracking and coming down in chunks just like this. We hired someone who replastered and now this is occurring again.

Why is this occurring and how might I fix it myself? There is no moisture or water. This is a second bedroom of a three story house.

After scraping the entire ceiling clean:
1. should I use some kind of bonding agent or special primer and then use hot mud?
2. Is this plaster/concrete and if so, can I just paint it after somehow smoothing it out without applying joint compound?
3. Should I use lightweight plaster instead of mud?
4. Any other suggestions welcome.

Thank you in advance!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Do you know if the ceiling had the residue from the texture removed? sometimes that can cause adhesion issues. Primer might be a good idea.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

NewHomeOwner2020 said:


> Hi all. We’ve had this one bedroom ceiling repaired multiple times by contractors and this issue seems to recur again and again very few years.
> 
> The ceiling was once a popcorn ceiling. It was scraped down, and skim coated with joint compound about 8 years ago.
> 
> ...


It looks like Plaster to me from the photo's.
If it is Plaster & it was skim coated using a joint compound type product it will fail over several years.
It does not have to be a water leak to cause this type problem.
I will also guess that you live in a very humid area or you keep the A/C at a very cool level.
Also if it is PLASTER you will have to remove all of the existing skim coating before it can be repaired.
As for a new skim coat material you will have to use a good Veneer Plaster coating.


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

Sure looks like moisture is pushing the texture off the ceiling. Maybe there is an oil or silicone residue on the ceiling. 

One thought ... get a wallpaper removal tool. Home Depot sells them. Scrape off all the loose texture, go over the ceiling like a million gazillion times with the scoring tool, it will roughen the paper and might provide a little tooth for the new joint compound.


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## NewHomeOwner2020 (Mar 17, 2021)

Thanks for all the responses. I don’t think it paper above so plaster sounds right. The house is very old, built in 1920 brick building. There is no central air and heating is via small cast iron radiator on the floor. There is another heated floor space above with wood floors so don’t think it’s moisture. The rest of the floor is fine, just this room that used to have a popcorn ceiling.
What kind of primer would I look for? 

Regular killz paint primer or something more specific? Also, I was thinking 20 minute mud for this so I can put on multiple coats.


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## YaterSpoon (Dec 1, 2016)

My guess is condensation. Also, how's the insulation above?


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

NewHomeOwner2020 said:


> Thanks for all the responses. I don’t think it paper above so plaster sounds right. The house is very old, built in 1920 brick building. There is no central air and heating is via small cast iron radiator on the floor. There is another heated floor space above with wood floors so don’t think it’s moisture. The rest of the floor is fine, just this room that used to have a popcorn ceiling.
> What kind of primer would I look for?
> 
> Regular killz paint primer or something more specific? Also, I was thinking 20 minute mud for this so I can put on multiple coats.


It can be a condensation / moisture problem that can occur within the wall.
I have seen this problem many times & as I have stated many times on this forum the wrong product used over Plaster will fail, like stated before it will take anywhere from 1 to 15 years to fail.
The moisture content of drywall is some where around 1%.
The moisture of Plaster is around 3% to 12%.
Coefficients of materials & heat will cause the two materials to delaminate.
Look @ it this way the existing substrate worked for 90 years than the wrong coating was applied & failed in 10 years?
Use a lime based material that will bond to the existing Plaster, purchase the repair materials from a Plaster Supply House & stay away from the Drywall products


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Look as if it was never primed. Therefore, any surface that's put on will have the moisture sucked out too fast, thus leaving the solids improperly bonded.

I've had trouble with popcorn ceiling many times. Many contractors would use popcorn (which has a paint-ish base) as a one-coat treatment for ceilings during the build. As you've found, that's not right.

Quite frankly, when my clients have said the ceiling has started to peel/drop/fracture I've found it to be a waste of time and (their) money to scrape the ceiling, prime, texture and paint as the end results usually start peeling again especially in humid areas, such as Hawaii where I was working.

The fix that always worked for me was to simply apply 3/8 or 1/2 sheetrock (making sure the joists can take the weight, or course) - tape with hot mud and move on properly with primer/texture/prime/color (yes, you're supposed to prime before and after applying texture). The client ends up with newly painted completely renovated room... and I'd get referrals for years to come...


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## NewHomeOwner2020 (Mar 17, 2021)

You’re probably right that I should go ahead with new Sheetrock but half the day is gone and I’ve only taken the day off of work to do this unfortunately and don’t have a large truck to carry new sheets of drywall.

I’ve tried to scrape off as much as I can. The rest of the ceiling for some reason seems to be stuck on pretty well. I cannot scrape off the other edges no matter for hard I try chipping it with the end of my taping knives.

A guy at HomeDepot (no drywall specialist stores near me) recommendedI but a product from PPG they sell called “Gripper” which is an interior/exterior acrylic primer+sealer.

If I cannot for the life of me scrape the rest of the room off as it’s stuck so well, I’m thinking I just leave out for the time being and then apply this Gripper primer to the scrape areas and then some 20 minute mud (I have to add back about a 1/8” thickness to blend in with rest of ceiling). 

Let me know if I’m going to regret it... Thank you all for humoring me.


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## oggy bleacher (May 3, 2011)

What about concrete bonding adhesive? Works good when repairing plaster. But the surface has to be clean enough to eat off it first.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

NewHomeOwner2020 said:


> You’re probably right that I should go ahead with new Sheetrock but half the day is gone and I’ve only taken the day off of work to do this unfortunately and don’t have a large truck to carry new sheets of drywall.
> 
> I’ve tried to scrape off as much as I can. The rest of the ceiling for some reason seems to be stuck on pretty well. I cannot scrape off the other edges no matter for hard I try chipping it with the end of my taping knives.
> 
> ...


One of the best bonding agents you can get for Plaster is Fixative by Keim or any Potassium Silicate will act as a consolidate / dust inhibitor.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Taking a day off from work....finding issues....and taking a questionable approach to a repar....that when it fails will necessitate another r day off.. time to rethink The approach.


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## new_reno (Sep 29, 2021)

NewHomeOwner2020 said:


> You’re probably right that I should go ahead with new Sheetrock but half the day is gone and I’ve only taken the day off of work to do this unfortunately and don’t have a large truck to carry new sheets of drywall.
> 
> I’ve tried to scrape off as much as I can. The rest of the ceiling for some reason seems to be stuck on pretty well. I cannot scrape off the other edges no matter for hard I try chipping it with the end of my taping knives.
> 
> ...


I have scraped popcorn from my concrete ceiling as well, but dont know what to do next. I have tried researching a lot. I dont want to apply joint compound that falls off in few years. were you able to figure out? what did you end up doing?


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