# Home Renovation Staircase Help



## millerwon (Jul 31, 2013)

This is not helpful to you at all, but would you mind telling me what software you used for your design?


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## drxlcarfreak (Jul 21, 2014)

I just used Google Sketchup for the design. You can play with the settings to turn hidden lines on etc. I used one of the free renderer plugins for the rendering.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Maybe I am just old and thick headed and can't grasp all you are saying all at once. That is a lot of information and a little hard to sort out. Starting at the top of the stairs, what does the upstairs have to do with removing the closet? Does the closet walls bare the weight of something upstairs that can't be supported otherwise?

The upper section of stairs I am understanding to be mortised stairs. Mortise stairs have the tread and riser mortised into the stringer and usually have only the two outside stringers. An open stringer or conventional stairs will have the treads and risers on top of the stringers, and depending on the stair width, will have three or more stringers.

The lower section of stairs could have an enclosed stringer (mortised) on the right and an open stringer on the left with a center stringer, it is hard to tell from here.

Once we understand what you have, and all there is to know about this, then hopefully we can help you with some of the details. If you have open stringers all the way up, you will have less problems modifying the stairs than if you have mortised stringers.


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## drxlcarfreak (Jul 21, 2014)

Sorry about that, I tend to write books sometimes. The closet doesn't have anything to do with the upstairs structurally. I had wanted to remove it to open up the stairs and foyer, but it contains an air return in it, and the girlfriend wants a coat closet.

Both parts of the stairs are open stringer. The tread and risers are sitting on top of the stringer. Both portions only have 2 stringers each. 

If it helps, I uploaded pictures of the stairs how they currently look.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Few thoughts,
1. You can't over think stairs. It is part of the house where people naturally look at how it is finished.

2. Top and middle landings and treads are finished. But not the bottom landing. This changes the riser height, and the difference can make the bottom step uncomfortable or a stumble point. The building rule allows for less than 1/4" difference (check this). You can't cover the treads with 1/2" ply. Patching the bottom landing with hardwood also changes the riser height. This can be adjusted somewhat with tread thicknesses.

3. Although air ducts can be easily re-routed (duct size can change, just keep it at similar volume air delivered), I'd keep the closet since floor was probably laid around it.

4. The gap is good way to insert a skirt. It'll match the skirt on opposite side. If treads need cleaning/straightening, time, chisel and japanese pull saw will help. In tight corners, cut outside of line and finish with chisel.

5. Your design shows the bottom hand rail ending on 3rd step! The hand rail must continue down to the bottom first step. Imagine an old lady having to step down last 2 steps without a rail, or an absent minded person still stepping down but the hand comes up empty. This is a building code, not just a common sense.

You are pretty much committed to that stairs. I'd finish removing rest of the cheap panels, etc, to the rough frame, then look at what you have. Scraping the threads to cleaner wood and getting rid of garbage also will help with seeing what you have.
Gaining extra few inches is not worth it. I'd keep it as is and think about how the finish will look.


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## drxlcarfreak (Jul 21, 2014)

The bottom landing is finished as well. I just haven't pulled the carpet up yet. Well, it is a patch of the original hardwood tongue and groove. I will make sure that each step is within 1/4" difference. I may actually be adding a 1/2" subfloor for carpeting on the upstairs landing to hopefully help flatten the floor out a little bit. I attached a picture of what I was thinking about doing. The bottom picture is existing, the middle is where it butts up to a wall, and the top is where I plan to have a false tread cap butt up to the carpeted tread. 

I did reroute the duct a bit, but the closet does have to remain, it can just be used as a closet now instead of a duct chase.

I was thinking of using a skirt, but it would require me to install a 2" thick skirt, I can't figure out how to make that look decent. 

For the railing, it technically wont meet code anyways because it isn't continuous to the top. I wanted to start it on a higher step because there is only 30" from the bottom step to the wall and wanted to open it up a little. It is a bit tight to move things up and down the stairs. I was planning on adding a full length railing on the right side at some point.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

1. The riser difference allowed may be closer to 1/8 than 1/4. Sorry can't remember. Check. Just googling may give you answer. Look for national code.

2. Don't add 1/2 ply on top landing. Including the carpet, changes the riser too much. Why is the original floor that uneven? If the floor does not flex, just uneven, I may think about floor leveler. Dont worry too much about absolutely feathered edge. You won't feel them under the rug.

3. Skirt can be thinner than 2". Gap covered with trim.

I was thinking of how the finish will look when I said you are committed to the work. It is taken apart to the point where you have to plan to the finish. Finish will dictate your rough work. Plan it now.


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## drxlcarfreak (Jul 21, 2014)

carpdad said:


> 1. The riser difference allowed may be closer to 1/8 than 1/4. Sorry can't remember. Check. Just googling may give you answer. Look for national code.


It looks like ICC and Maryland code is actually 3/8". I don't plan to be anywhere near that though!



carpdad said:


> 2. Don't add 1/2 ply on top landing. Including the carpet, changes the riser too much. Why is the original floor that uneven? If the floor does not flex, just uneven, I may think about floor leveler. Dont worry too much about absolutely feathered edge. You won't feel them under the rug.


I am not 100% sure, but part of it is due to me having to jack joists up to sister them where the previous owners decided to notch out all but 2" of a couple of them, and in another location I had to re-replace an architectural beam and columns with a structural steel beam and columns. There are a couple areas where I can feel a few boards kind of pitched higher than the others along with some sags. Maybe I can try to screw the high spots down to the joists. I still have the old linoleum flooring down and can feel it through that pretty well. On a side note, I didn't know that linoleum flooring was ever popular in bedrooms!



carpdad said:


> 3. Skirt can be thinner than 2". Gap covered with trim.


Do you have any details or sections of how this will look? I cannot picture anything really. 



carpdad said:


> I was thinking of how the finish will look when I said you are committed to the work. It is taken apart to the point where you have to plan to the finish. Finish will dictate your rough work. Plan it now.


I agree, I am staying away from the area for now until I figure out what I am going to do 100%


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Have you considered wainscoting for your stairs, something like the picture below? That would be a good way to fill the gap.
It is a little hard to see the skirt added onto the 1X of the wainscoting but that would an option.


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## drxlcarfreak (Jul 21, 2014)

Wainscoting is an option, although I am not sure how I would be able to terminate it at the top of the stairs. The hallway continues flush down that wall. I was also trying to get away from the wainscoting look. The previous wood paneling was painted to mimic it, and it made the house feel small and very outdated.


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