# Persistent Leak - Chimney or Roof?



## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Got any pics? Preferrably while the chimney is wet inside, as well as rooftop pics. This would help greatly.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Are you getting any efflorescence on the brick? That's usually a good indicator when water is moving through brick.


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

Pictures of the outside of the chimney where it meets the roof and flashing on all sides will probably tell the story. Let's also see the chimney cap.

Yes water can go through the bricks, but that would not normally be the case. More then likely the flashing is done improperly and the cricket is missing in the back.

The gap in the plywood is nothing, in fact it is required to some extent.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

i had a problem once where warm attic air was condensing on the back side of the flashing


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## CMoorhead (Jan 7, 2009)

I've got no roof top pics, but here is what the chimney is doing right now:

The first pic shows how the leak presents - the brick is all soaked, except for that dry portion in the bottom right of the photo.

In the second pic, this is sort of a cubby hole in the chimney - no sure of its purpose. But water comes in and just drips onto the ceiling from there, leading to the most damage...


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

just a suggestion, when I was looking for my water leak around the chimney, I went up in the attic on a sunny day, turned off my flashlight and there was the light of day right next to the chimney, did same thing at my son's house to find daylight around the flashing, and hopefully the sourse of his roof leak., as a side note, was talking to someone had a new roof installed year before, had a leak, told him before working on the brick, to take a look with lights off, his roofer had failed to flash around the chimney.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Some rooftop pics and a closeup of the top of the flashing, the flashing at the rear of the chimney (with the shingles lifted to expose the roofing procedures), the top of the chimney, and of the brick would be better to get an accurate assessment.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Im especially interested in the upper corner to see which layers were installed and if they left out a critical piece of step flashing that wraps around and gets sealed to the pan in back.


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## Baron (Jan 6, 2009)

It is usually the flashing installed poorly however mortar and bricks can be porous to a degree, some more than others and they can get saturated, but usually weep more than leak.

First insure the top of the chimney is water tight to the flue tiles and pitched nicely away to shed water. 

Observe to see if the clay tiles are mortared neatly on the inside. 

Make sure the cap is adequate to shed water. 

Then its on to the flashing.

I usually ice shield around a chimney and lay it up the chimney an inch or two when I can, making sure to overlap the bottom piece over the back of the shingle below. every shingle needs to be place so flashing adequately sheds water over it. Sometimes it works out odd with the lead flashing so care to get the sequence right helps. 

Make sure the lead flashing is cut in deep enough at the mortar joints and the mortar is tight at that point especially or cut in some new lead. A very small hole at a busy joint can leak worse than it shows. So any crack is suspect around chimneys. 


The back of a chimney and the corners are crucial to a good job and a crick is the wisest thing to install behind a broad chimney if not all chimneys where possible. Tar should not be all over the face of the lead or the seams. If tar is used it should be used to prevent water backing up when the physical ability of the flashing being installed is showing a limitation in its overlap, but I almost never use it or need to use it when the flashing is done with care and mated into the shingles properly.

If the mortar and brick are suspect you could stucco the exterior of the chimney with a water proof stucco such as fiberglass reinforced stucco used for parging, however you would have to really like that look.


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## CMoorhead (Jan 7, 2009)

Wow - thanks for all the info so far. As soon as I have roof top pics, I'll post them. But this is all good stuff to know...


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

*Same problem*

I have the same exact problem. I live in massachusetts and the first picture posted was exactly the same as my chimney after a long duration rain storm. I had roofers up on my roof for a couple of days re-flashing around the chimney and installing a cricket (proper term?) on the back of my chimney. I have gone up into my attic during rain storms and i can actually see the water dripping from the mortar in the bricks. some of the mortar sticks out a bit and touches some of the joists to the roof. This causes the wood to suck up the water and thus let it travel to other areas. They also sprayed a breathable sealant over the entire chimney.

After the roofers "fixed" the issue and stated to me that they could almost guarantee there would be no water leaking from the repairs they did, well the next long duration storm, 4+ inches of rain, same thing happened, though not as bad. 

I guess my next move is to get a mason or chimney guy to look at the chimney for other faulty areas. The chimney "seems" in decent shape to me but that means nothing. I feel as though I am just throwing my money in the trash trying to locate the problem. Any ideas from anyone out there? Anything would be super appreciated . Thanks


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

CMoorhead,

Does the leak happen year-round?


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

NOt sure who you are replying to, but the specific times I have had the leak are February, March(worst) and most recently Early December (not as bad). All cold months. I have not had any issue at all during the warmer months even with 2-3 inch thunderstorms. 
They seem to be long, persistent, heavy rain storms in cold months.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

skenn8,

Do you ever have these problems during _dry_ winter weather?


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

no, not during normal winter weather, even a normal winter rain storm, dry snowstorm, melting snow, I have had no issues. Only during long drawn out soakers. The bricks seems to just absorb the water like a sponge and then drip out of the mortar. as the rain continues, more and more bricks below start to get soaked with water

Just frustrating because my first instinct was that it was the flashing, but I have had that repaired plus a cricket on the back end of the chimney installed. 
Also, this a built in fireplace chimney but shares the stack with my furnace and hot water heater exhast. Separate flu for the appliances and fireplace has not been used in 2 years.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Has a RILEM test been performed on the brick to determine permeability?


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

no, not since I have owned the home


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Have a look at fitting a chimney tray DPC video

http://www.justlead.co.uk/news/Page-2.html


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

The chances of your chimney joints(Mortar) all leaking to create the 360 moisture pattern around your chimney might be comparable to winning the lotto.If your chimney (inner) is leaking from the inside out then why does it have a moisture pattern consistent with the outline of the chimney.If it was leaking from the inside out you would see broken,cracked mortar and possibly a few missing bricks. Your problem could be 1 of 4 things including all 4 at once.
1. Counter Flashing is worn out.
2. Apron (front) and the pan (back) are worn out 
3. Mortar joints where CF was installed has lost its sealant 
4.Your home is always shifting/moving sometimes overnailing an apron or pan will assist the CF with pulling itself away from the chimney leaving exposed joint.

Before you go and do the "Goop n Smear" have a few contractors give you an estimate for replacing these items mentioned NEVER let a contractor think that you are not savvy to the situation because I know a couple here that will give a list of problems that would rattle your mind.The bad thing about chimney leaks is it only gets worse. Good Luck


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

This is the obvious problem, I agree. This is why I had all of the flashing re-done along with a cricket in the rear of the chimney as noted with previous posts by a roofing company. They were very confident I would not be getting any leaks because of the new flashing.


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

My guess would be that it could be the mortar joints where the lead flashing is installed. The roofers did not touch this part. This might explain why only with long drawn out storms, water starts to seep in?


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

skenn8 said:


> My guess would be that it could be the mortar joints where the lead flashing is installed. The roofers did not touch this part. This might explain why only with long drawn out storms, water starts to seep in?


Step-flashing is individual pieces of aluminum that are installed over each shingle butted against the chimney,this flashing(step) is installed behind the counter flashing.The counter-flashing is imbedded in the mortar joints,this is what I feel your issue pertains to.I will try to upload a pic for you.,The pic will show some flimsy aluminum embedded within the joints.The pic is from a reroof I did and the chimney pic is a before pic of the new counter flashing install.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Roofmaster417 said:


> Step-flashing is individual pieces of aluminum that are installed over each shingle butted against the chimney,this flashing(step) is installed behind the counter flashing.The counter-flashing is imbedded in the mortar joints,this is what I feel your issue pertains to.I will try to upload a pic for you.,The pic will show some flimsy aluminum embedded within the joints.The pic is from a reroof I did and the chimney pic is a before pic of the new counter flashing install.


For some reason the pic isn't loading so I will post it in my album, just click on my username and follow to my albums.


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

I think you might be right. I went back up on my roof to get rid of some of the 2 feet of snow I had before the next snow/rain storm and took a look at the mortar joints. There is at least 2 areas where a gap has formed between the counter flashing and the mortar. It looks like the mortar just pulled away over time creating this gap. Probably a couple of millimeters wide along the whole length where the counter flashing goes into the mortar. The counter flashing is installed into the mortar but it looks as though if it rained enough, enough water might seep/drip into this gap, thus creating my seepage. This area is above the exact area where the water is seeping down. Further up the roof/chimney line, there are no gaps. The joints seem to be sealed well and I dont have water seepage entering from these areas. This is the only thing I can think of. Does this make sense to you?
I checked your site for the pictures, and they were not there. Also the roofers re-did my step flashing as well when they were up there. I will see if I can get a picture next time I am up on my roof.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

I will try again, I figured out the reason they would not load....Files were too big.:laughing::laughing::yes:


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, that does look bad. My chimney has the lead counter flashing and looks very good where it meets the house. I am beginning to think that my issue is where the lead flashing is embedded in the mortar. There is definitely some spots where water could make its way into the brick. whether this is the problem or not, I guess I will find out if I have these spots repaired. 2 foot of snow on my roof is preventing me from getting up there to get some pictures. Thanks for the pictures.


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## jmiller (Nov 19, 2010)

Roofmaster417 said:


> The pic will show some flimsy aluminum embedded within the joints.The pic is from a reroof I did and the chimney pic is a before pic of the new counter flashing install.


We usually flash them before the shingles go over the back pan.

Can we see the 'after' pic?


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

jmiller said:


> We usually flash them before the shingles go over the back pan.
> 
> Can we see the 'after' pic?


I install the pan before theroof completion but this was a hail job and we were really behind.I was about 5-7 Counter jobs behind. I caught up and I have yet to get a finished photo.,the reason for that is the longer you wait the shingles seal a little better.I love roofing but I really,really,reallylove Counter flashing.It is a metal mans craft, I use crimpers,snips,and a brake. All of my jobs are made by hand....NO KITS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will post some pics. thanks for asking.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

skenn8,

I really appreciate your keeping us current on your progress, and I'll be very interested to to learn the cause of your leak once it's finally established.


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

*recent rain*

I recently sealed all of my gaps with a brick mortar fill type caulking. The label stated is was exactly what I needed it for. ANyway, we just got .75 inches of heavy rain today and the exact same thing happened. I went up into the attic and it is seeping through the mortar in the same areas. There are places where the mortar touches the inside rafter and thus the water travels down the rafter until it hits a ceiling area. Also, the temperature never got over 35 degrees today. I have never had this issue with warmer weather rain, no matter how much I get. It is driving me crazy and I am to the point where I think the whole chimney needs to be taken down and re-built. only months this has happened. December, January, February and March.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Do you have any pics of the area topside? If not take a pic of the area it appears to be leaking.


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## skenn8 (Jan 10, 2011)

*pictures of problem*

Last night we got .62 inches of rain. it fell hard for a few hours, then just lighter and steady. This morning I checked the chimney in the attic, same issue. though getting worse. i took pictures but they are too big in size for this forum. Havent figured out how to shrink them yet


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

There are many free utilities to resize files, one for Windows is PixResizer.

Up-thread I suggested *that after making sure that no one will attempt to use any appliance, fireplace or stove connected to the chimney* you bag or tarp off the chimney cap and the first few inches of chimney to help isolate the problem.

Did you ever try that?


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