# PVC conduit - custom offset or bending



## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

I am putting the overhead service for my house underground and I am getting ready to trench and assemble the conduit. Since my old service panel is a top entry, flush mount box with the meter at the top, it looks like I need to get a new service panel with service entry at the bottom. 

I am required to use 2" pvc conduit with 36" sweeps. All elbows have to be 36" radius. I believe this includes any offsets I may add. Flexi-conduit is not allowed. One mystery is how I mate the conduit with the new flush mount panel. I expect the conduit will come up just outside the wall, then it will transition thru the siding between the joists and just under the box itself. This requires an offset of around 3 or 4" but no more than 36" radius. 

Are such conduit offsets available?
Is bending a conduit (with a heat gun or other) allowed?
Are flexible rubber couplings like that used on plumbing ever used on electrical conduit?

This 2" stuff is very rigid. If I use a threaded male adaptor to attach to the box, I'd have to attach it before I buried the conduit or install the box after the conduit was in place, otherwise I'd never be able to bend the stuff enough to insert the threaded end. The other method would be to use a threaded female adaptor and thread in a nipple from inside the box. Is there a completely different method/coupling I am unaware of?


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

A heat gun is one method. A torch can also be used. You have to heat a big area in order to prevent kinking, and don't dwell too long in one place or you will burn the conduit. You may be able to rent a pipe heat box from a tool rental place.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> Are such conduit offsets available?


Two 45's = an offset.

Concrete slab I assume?

If you use two factory45 degree ells back to back, the conduit will be exposed quite a bit just above grade.

I'd chop out some of the floor/stem wall/foundation so the first 45 doesn't stick out.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

You've made this extremely difficult to provide good workmanship with a flushmount and meter. I'd like a bit better picture of what your doing. 

The *meter and panel *are the same assembly/enclosure and it is flush mounted in an outside wall? 

Can you take a picture and post it?

What area/state do you live in? Is it rural or in the city? 

Who is your power company?

I'm asking to see what options you have for meter sockets and the panel type.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

S Cal. Concrete slab and very visible location on front corner of house. 
Right now I have a Murray JA110 surface mount combo panel, which is fine, but now I need bottom entry for the service. I don't really need 20 positions or 200A, but that seems to be the closest upgrade. If there were a box that were 150-175A with say 15positions, that would do it. It would need to be surface mount and fit the joists (<15").

Maybe I should bite the bullet and notch the foundation. I can get a concrete saw and jackhammer, and I am not afraid of the work, but I don't know if I'd need extra permits to do that work and patch it up properly.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Supply and demand may lead you toward a 200 amp service. I never see anything smaller around here.

The last "semi flush" I installed was a SqD Homeline. It fit between the 16" studs. I had to search for it as most everything here is surface mounted.

Notch the concrete a bit and plant a shrubbery to hide the balance.

You could also form around the exposed conduit, pour concrete and put a potted plant on it.


***********************
On second thought, just surface mount the damn thing. You are still going to see the panel. The riser isn't *that *much worse. 36" of conduit? Come on.

Or maybe relocate the panel to a less obtrusive location?


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

tns1 said:


> S Cal. Concrete slab and *very visible* location on front corner of house.....





220/221 said:


> ………… Or maybe relocate the panel to a less obtrusive location?


 Best advice. I put my Meter with 200A breaker on the front corner of my house and the main CB panel about 4" away on the *side* of the house.
.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

I would remove the existing panel and meter. Cover the hole with whatever your house is made of. Like it never existed. Then install a surface mount 200 amp meter main. This way the PVC can come straight up into the bottom with no bending required. I would also exit the back of the meter main for a sub panel inside. This sub will supply all the branch circuits inside and the meter main outside can supply all of your outdoor branch circuits.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

Surface mount is not acceptable. This is an 'L' shaped house with the garage in the front. The meter location is on the garage wall, which you pass on the way to the front door. It has to be flush or semi-flush. 

Moving the meter would make for a much bigger digging job, and require a lot of rewiring. I do like the idea of a separate meter main with the load panel on the inside wall of the garage. A perfect solution would be a single flush or semi-flush combo box with a meter main on the outside wall, and load breakers accessed from the inside wall. Does such a thing exist? 

If they end up being two separate boxes, do they have to be joined by conduit?

I was told that creating a custom bend in conduit is not that hard to do. I think I will do some digging first to see how much conduit is exposed and how difficult it would be to notch the slab.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

tns1 said:


> Surface mount is not acceptable. This is an 'L' shaped house with the garage in the front. The meter location is on the garage wall, which you pass on the way to the front door. It has to be flush or semi-flush.
> 
> Moving the meter would make for a much bigger digging job, and require a lot of rewiring. I do like the idea of a separate meter main with the load panel on the inside wall of the garage. A perfect solution would be a single flush or semi-flush combo box with a meter main on the outside wall, and load breakers accessed from the inside wall. Does such a thing exist?
> 
> ...


I was going to suggest a meter main with inside panel but you sounded like you were stuck with flush outside. I don't know of any meter mains that also have a breaker panel that is accessed from inside. You can have the meter main outside and flush then a 4 wire feeder to an inside main lug panel if that works. No you do not have to use conduit unless local codes require it....I wouldn't think so. SER cable should be fine from the main breaker outside to the panel inside. You need to check with the poco and local codes if they allow this set-up and what meter mains they allow/approve. I would think it would be fine. You can look at the milbank meter sockets web site for examples of meter mains. Or find out what meters your poco uses...there is usually a list of compliant companies they accept if it matters to them..


http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/MeterMainBreaker/index.asp


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

tns1 said:


> Surface mount is not acceptable. This is an 'L' shaped house with the garage in the front. The meter location is on the garage wall, which you pass on the way to the front door. It has to be flush or semi-flush.


Who says? It's purely aesthetic. If my meter had to be passed to get to my front door I would MOVE it. No one said this would be easy. You can do what you want. Good luck finding a NEMA 3R meter main that can be be flush mounted.


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## Cow (Jan 5, 2008)

tns1 said:


> Moving the meter would make for a much bigger digging job, and require a lot of rewiring. I do like the idea of a separate meter main with the load panel on the inside wall of the garage. A perfect solution would be a single flush or semi-flush combo box with a meter main on the outside wall, and load breakers accessed from the inside wall. Does such a thing exist?


Never used one, don't know if it'll work for you:

http://www2.sea.siemens.com/NR/rdon...871D74910/0/MC243042B1250FE2_Back_To_Back.pdf


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

That looks just like what I was thinking of. I found that Eaton also makes these.

One thing I noticed is that the local HD and Lowes carries load centers and meter combo panels. They only have a few options but they are far less expensive than similar models thru other distributors. What is the difference between a 200A meter combo box with a 2040 configuration costing $150 and the same configuration costing $2000? Is this difference just markup or is there a real quality difference?


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Supply/demand


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> A heat gun is one method. A torch can also be used. You have to heat a big area in order to prevent kinking, and don't dwell too long in one place or you will burn the conduit. You may be able to rent a pipe heat box from a tool rental place.


Both of these are code violations. 352.24 says "Field bends shall be made only with bending equipment identified for the purpose."

You need to use a heat blanket, hot box or other identified equipment.

Mark


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

busman said:


> Both of these are code violations. 352.24 says "Field bends shall be made only with bending equipment identified for the purpose."
> 
> You need to use a heat blanket, hot box or other identified equipment.
> 
> Mark


Yeah, 'cause the heat from the blanket or hot box is some how different than the heat from a heat gun.:laughing:.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Yeah, 'cause the heat from the blanket or hot box is some how different than the heat from a heat gun.:laughing:.


I can't say I've never used a heat gun for offsets in small pipe, but it is a violation. Certainly using a torch is a bad idea.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

busman said:


> I can't say I've never used a heat gun for offsets in small pipe, but it is a violation. Certainly using a torch is a bad idea.


It requires finesse, for sure. It's pretty low on my list of violations to be concerned about. Right up there with re-coloring a wire smaller than #4.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Heat guns and hot boxes have been a part of this trade for as far back as I can remember. There was no such animal as a heat blanket in the early years. I would not blink should the need arise. I have never used a torch either. I have used the oven in my kitchen on occasion if the piece was short enough. I have also held the pipe over a stove burner. Whatever it takes to get a nice looking bend, I will do.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Conduit in place*

These pics show the installed conduit. I decided to drill through the sill and footing rather than go thru the siding. These hammer drills sure make short work of it. The large core drill broke out the side of the sill, but a little mortar should patch it up. 

Some of the building codes mention a requirement to encapsulate conduit in concrete in certain conditions. Do you think I would be required to do more than just patch up the hole?


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Very nice work. I wouldn't think anymore than a patch would be needed. Some jurisdictions require expansion sleeves on service lateral risers but you would have to run that by the inspector.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

That is nice and clean but I would do more than patch. I would set a form in that trench and pour a few bags of cement to shore up that footing/stem wall. You took quite a chunk out of a vulnerable area (the corner).

I was in a house the other day where the corner had been slowly falling down over the past several decades and it posed a visable problem with tile cracking.

Cement is cheap.


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## tns1 (Jun 26, 2009)

For the conduit that comes up thru the sill:
The power conduit will continue up to the panel. Is there anything special I should be doing with the other two (coax and telco) ?
I was thinking of extending the conduit up to chest level and running them thru a horiz 2x4 for support. At that height I was thinking of putting some kind of elbow on each so the cables each have a service loop and any water does not run into the conduit.


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## adam_withrow (Aug 29, 2011)

You can definitely make your own offsets. There is a tool called a PVC Bendit that you slip into the pipe. It heats up the pipe from the inside and softens it, and then you can make your bends. If you set up a form that makes your offset the way you want it to, then you heat the pipe, drop it into the form and let it cool. Once it cools, it completely returns to its original hardness. The advantage to the PVC Bendit is that you can heat up to nine feet of pipe at one time, which allows you to do compound offsets in a single pass.

Very cool stuff.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

adam_withrow said:


> You can definitely make your own offsets. There is a tool called a PVC Bendit that you slip into the pipe. It heats up the pipe from the inside and softens it, and then you can make your bends. If you set up a form that makes your offset the way you want it to, then you heat the pipe, drop it into the form and let it cool. Once it cools, it completely returns to its original hardness. The advantage to the PVC Bendit is that you can heat up to nine feet of pipe at one time, which allows you to do compound offsets in a single pass.
> 
> Very cool stuff.


 Please read the dates before reopening two year old thread.


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## adam_withrow (Aug 29, 2011)

this tool didn't exist two years ago, and people are still bending conduit to this day. for someone who is looking for the best advice people can give them, i feel it's ok to add some current information. if someone is looking for an answer to a conduit bending question, they don't look for the age of the thread, they look for the information that is most relevant to them.


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