# Another French Drain Question - best option for my scenerio?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Is this the level of the basement or is the basement lower?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

basement is lower


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

What was the red drain, in your drawing, connected to?

Roger


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

that red drain is what I would like to install. That will be connected to whichever pipe option I choose to go with. 
It will be a drain that is slightly below the sidewalk (not driveway, the drive way already slopes away), it will connect to the intersection of the pipe coming from the garage, and the pipe in front of the patio
make sense?

I considered a catch basin, but I don't think I can justify the cost of one, if a normal drain would suffice. They'd both be tying to the same drain pipe


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## SARG (Dec 28, 2020)

Don't forget the geo-fabric.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I wouldn't run water from the garage to a perforated pipe where it can leak and add problems to the basement,
I would have a perforated beside the garage and in front of the patio but the rest would be solid. 
Solid down the driveway and beside the perforated or across the yard.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

Didn’t you say, you drilled the holes in that white cap and water came out? The reason I ask, is if that was the case, it appears the pipe is sloped to wrong direction.
The corrugated pipe is good if you don’t need connectors or fittings. The connections or fittings are not water proof so if they are close to the foundation they will leak water down by the foundation.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rogerwh said:


> Didn’t you say, you drilled the holes in that white cap and water came out? The reason I ask, is if that was the case, it appears the pipe is sloped to wrong direction.
> The corrugated pipe is good if you don’t need connectors or fittings. The connections or fittings are not water proof so if they are close to the foundation they will leak water down by the foundation.


I think he found the end of the pipe in water and drained the hole before he dug the rest of the trench.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I drilled the holes in the end cap to allow water to drain into the pipe and outwards. the pipe is definitely sloped correctly
I started at the white cap end first. it was the shallowest part of the run, so i certainly didn't have to dig far.

once i drilled those holes in the pipe, i noticed that the water stopped flowing into the basement shortly after. it took a little bit cause of all the rain we had, but it made it clear where my problem is / was. which is why I was thinking of the drain to also help

so if I have solid pipe (your blue lines), how exactly will any sitting water drain into the pipe if there are no drain holes?
If I do have solid pipe, do you still need gravel beneath the solid pipe locations?


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## FM3 (Aug 12, 2019)

rogerwh said:


> The corrugated pipe is good if you don’t need connectors or fittings. The connections or fittings are not water proof so if they are close to the foundation they will leak water down by the foundation.


True. Though, if the pipe has slope like it's supposed to, minor leaks are irrelevant. Also, if the particular section of pipe is perforated, then of course perfect fittings are irrelevant since there are already big holes in the pipe. 

Some other quick pipe opinions: Yes, OP, schedule 40 is overkill. Nice if you can get a good price on it, but a big negative is most fittings won't fit. Pipe and gutter etc fittings will fit the green SDR35 pipe and also fit thin wall pipe, and be pretty easy to attach to corrugated. Fittings are a big reason to avoid Schedule 40.

Also, you're in Ohio, and an argument can be made that flexible is better than stiff for freezing ground. Each pipe option flexes more than the previous. Ground that moves when frozen can break fittings. And some people say corrugated is flimsy, but a 250-pound person can stand on the bare pipe and it's fine, so how flimsy is that really. The last I checked, the Menards corrugated seems a bit stronger than the typical ADS version at Lowes, etc. YMMV on that. I held both in my hands the same day and thought there was a noticeable difference in strength at the time. 

And remember you don't actually need any pipe in a french drain for it to work. Yes, there should be a pipe in there to make it much more efficient, but I mean if the trench itself has proper slope, then it's going to work anyway no matter what kind of pipe is inside the gravel.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

crankbait09 said:


> I drilled the holes in the end cap to allow water to drain into the pipe and outwards. the pipe is definitely sloped correctly
> I started at the white cap end first. it was the shallowest part of the run, so i certainly didn't have to dig far.
> 
> once i drilled those holes in the pipe, i noticed that the water stopped flowing into the basement shortly after. it took a little bit cause of all the rain we had, but it made it clear where my problem is / was. which is why I was thinking of the drain to also help
> ...


The solid pipe is just a conduit to carry the water from the drain to the discharge area. The French drain is constructed with the perforated pipe with the holes on the bottom. The way I understand the French drains is constructed is the trench is 12“ to 18” deep. The trench is lined with landscape fabric, 3/4” aggregate rock on the bottom. Then the pipe with the hole down, then the trench is filled to grade level with 1” or larger aggregate rock.
The first French drain I built, I used plastic the line the trench. Over a ten years period, the freezing water punched the pipe out of the rocks. The landscape fabric allows any standing water the in the trench to absorb into the ground.

Roger


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I have not started digging yet, or continued digging as I should say. I'm making sure my plan of attack is correct before I start wasting time and effort.

I modified the first photo of this thread. I added a blueish circle that represents standing water that I experienced on Sunday, during the heavy rain fall. Now whether it was because that pipe in front of the patio was clogged, or if it was because I had no drainage running the span of the driveway, maybe all of it contributed. I realize I could be adding more water to the direction of the basement but if I have that perforated pipe running the whole span (from garage to patio), would that benefit the draining process, or should I make that driveway run solid pipe? Am I making sense?

that standing water is what made me consider placing a drain in the lower right corner in front of the patio.

Heres the picture


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would run both solid and perf across the patio and run them both in a solid to go beside the house. A yard drain is not a bad idea. Garage and yard drain into the solid pipe.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

I think Neal has a good idea of running the garage drain in solid, down the drive and in front of the patio, to the down spout. The yard drain in the corner, could be connected to the end of the perforated pipe that runs in front of the patio. Both the garage solid pipe and the patio perforated pipe could be in the same trench. Separating the two lines keeps the garage drain water from exiting out that corner drain.

Roger


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

This is what smaller size corrugated pipe is designed for, and meant for:








So unless you are installing drain tiles in your fields, discard any recommendations, YouTube videos, word-of-mouth, etc to use corrugated anywhere for storm and ground water collection. It is just plain inferior and causes problems.

I remember this garage being flooded - didn't we talk about the pipe in that thread? This is the pipe to use - 10' lengths of belled-end PVC or Poly sewer and drain pipe. You can glue it or not. You can slope it or not. You can rod it. Both types use normal thin-wall sewer and drain fittings, so you can find most shapes of wyes, tees, etc. They will even take Sch40 fittings because the thin-wall sewer and drain fittings fit inside the ends of Sch40. There is perforated and solid. The Poly has options for location of perforations (2 or 3 holes). They are cheaper than the blue-ish SDR35 pipe that the previous owner used, no reason to go that heavy just in your yard under the grass.
4" x 10' Solid PVC Sewer and Drain Pipe ASTM D2729
4" x 10' Perforated PVC Sewer and Drain Pipe ASTM D2729
Poly 3-wall 4" x 10' Solid Sewer and Drain Pipe ASTM F810
Poly 3-wall 4"x 10' Perforated Sewer and Drain Pipe 4.8 ASTM F810

Use perforated when you need to collect water. Sitting on a bed of gravel, wrapped in gravel, and all wrapped like a burrito in geotextile. No gravel for solid pipe.
Gravel should be 3/4" washed, at least directly around the pipe. Landscape fabric is for ground cover, use a non-woven needlepunched geotextile:
6 ft. x 300 ft. Black Polypropylene Non Woven Filter Fabric

If you have standing water that cannot be fixed via sloping grade, or need to collect runoff water from an adjacent hardscape like a driveway or patio, you can install a catch basin (not the ones you see in the street) for a yard drain:
NDS® 9" x 9" Catch Basin with Grate 

At each turn of long length of run, install a cleanout. That consists of a sanitary tee in the direction of rodding or a double cleanout for both directions, a short stub to grade and an unglued cap.
At downspouts, there is an adapter NDS® 2" x 3" x 3" Offset PVC Down Spout Adapter Sewer & Drain (couple versions).
The best method for discharging your water is daylighting onto grade. If you can't, you can use a pop-up emitter at the end NDS® 4" Pop-Up Drainage Emitter, and then it is always better to have some slope, at least near the pop-up.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

3onthetree - yes, this is the very garage that I mentioned being flooded. BUT, during that thread, I assumed it was due to the pooling water in front of the man door. Since that time, I dug that trench on the side of the garage, which directed the water into the trench and on down the yard. Since doing that, the garage has been bone dry. No matter how hard it has rained / how much it has snowed. So the side trenches were the answer. Now I am trying to complete that, and fix the patio area in the process.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Measure your grade elevation at the point you want to daylight these pipes nearer the street (usually need to keep on your property 3'-10' back from prop line). Then backtrack that elevation to still have slope from the beginning of the patio french drain. That is because this drain needs to be as deep as you can get it to alleviate as much underground water coming towards the basement. Once this pipe picks up the gutter downspout, it must convert to solid.
Since you are having a catch basin in the corner, this should NOT connect to the patio french drain, or it will expel water out the perforations. So that means the garage french drain should come down to pick up the catch basin, then can run next to the perforated patio french drain. The depth of this garage branch doesn't have to be the same as the patio branch (its just in the same trench dig passing by as solid), when they meet up at the corner the Wye and ELs can account for elevation differences.
Continue along the house to street in solid and pick up the other downspout.
The only cleanouts would be at the start of the perforated branches, as the catch basin and downspouts are available for access.
Bonus not shown, you can choose to have the end 10' or 20' feet of pipe right before daylighting (clear of the house) to be perforated to expel some water prior to discharge. Lessens "waterfall" by a little bit (but then needs gravel and wrap).


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

you guys mention running a solid and perforated pipe using the same trench. does the solid pipe need to be a certain distance away from the perforated pipe to not restrict flow for the perforated run?

in the 4th picture of this thread, I show a picture of the area that will have the solid pipe leading towards the street. In the picture, you will see a small tree on the right. I am going to run the solid pipe right in the middle, splitting the distance of the house and the tree. When I start digging, i suspect that I will hit tree roots that I will need to cut. What can I do with the cut root so that it won't grow back and make it's way into the drain pipe? I went out to look at this area, and there is a massive tree root right at the surface. I could stop the end of the drain a little before this root. that slope going towards the street is steep enough that I wouldn't need to be concerned with sitting water. heres a picture of said root

I'm still trying to determine if I really need a catch basin. If I don't, then I can direct the grg pipe across the yard so it meets the downspout / patio connector.
im not sure if water pools in that corner due to no drainage, or if i do in fact need the basin. dont wanna waste money if it's not needed. that basin certainly cant hurt. I could also have a drain grate that runs down to the solid pipe below









NDS 9 in. Plastic Square Drainage Grate in Black 970 - The Home Depot


Drain the excess stormwater away, not the leaves and debris in it. The 9 in. Square Drain Grate blocks troublesome particles from entering and potentially clogging your drain pipes, while letting the stormwater flow through. Use the drain grate (also known as a drain cover) to drain moderate...



www.homedepot.com


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I need some assistance on finding parts / pieces for this french drain.
I have settled on thin walled 4" drain / sewer pipe
where the drain will begin, on the back of the garage......I want to place a clean out at that location. While browsing online, I came across a Tee that has the cleanout built into it. Do they not make a 90 / 45 elbow that would do this? If I do have to use this tee, is there an adapter to close the end off? I do have an end cap, and will have a stubby piece of pipe that I can use to close it off, but to me, there has got to be a connector that can avoid having to piece an end together. Am I making sense?

This is what I am finding: https://www.lowes.com/pd/4-in-Dia-9...KpHzpTUOaMDs7Py9GJIaAhHXEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You can get a clean out fitting that will fit into a 90 or you can get one that will fit a pipe if you are deeper.
I would use longer sweeps to turn corners.
use a sweep Y at the corner with another sweep to join the 2 pipes.
Not sure about the yard drain as you want one that the pipes seal so you can use the solid pipe.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm thinking of omitting that 2nd run of pipe that runs along the patio next to the existing perforated.
But rather cut across the yard to meet the downspout junction.
Here is a picture of the trenching that I think I will go with. 
Is there any reason why this wouldn't work? I know it was mentioned at the beginning, but we also switched to the double pipe in one trench option.

For the area that I have "connector?" written. I'm assuming I would use a Tee to pick up the perforated, downspout, and then the solid pipe. but not sure how to tie in the solid pipe that is going at an angle towards the garage. these connectors will have one solid pipe coming out and heading towards the street (bottom of drawing).

Also, at the right corner of the patio, I'm thinking that clean out should be a drain, and not so much a catch basin / clean out. that area is the shallowest due to it being the high point. I could dig down deeper, but that also means the other end of it will need to be a lot deeper than it actually is. I would need a very shallow drain / connector that would connect to the perforated pipe. right?

suggestions?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Dashed lines are perforated pipe?

What kind of perforated pipe do you plan to use?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

yes, those dashes represent perforated.

I started buying this stuff (perf and solid), buying a few at a time since that's all that will fit in my SUV at one time (due to length sticking out window  )









Advanced Drainage Systems 4 in. x 10 ft. 2 Hole Triplewall Pipe 4520010 - The Home Depot


Advanced Drainage Systems, Inc. (ADS) 4



www.homedepot.com


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Does that stuff fit the standard PVC fittings?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

no, the fittings for this are a tad smaller. While at HD, I saw the elbows (90 and long sweep), cleanouts, etc just like I see with sched. 40 fittings. fittings are there, just not sure which fittings are the best choice to do what I need.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

As long as you have sufficient bury depth, you could probably just use the PVC fittings loosely, as long as you wrap the joints with filter fabric. The backfill will keep everything in place; no need for thrust blocks since this isn't pressurized. You probably have a better selection in standard PVC fittings. The fabric would be to keep fines from filtering into the cracks and settling in the pipes. Whether you wrap the perforated sections too depends whether or not you wrap your stone. If it was me, I'd wrap anything that contacts soil.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Finally got all my plumbing parts bought, or at least a good amount. Got the fabric ordered as well. Now the gravel.
I see I should use 3/4", is there a reason 1" wouldn't work? The couple places around me that sell in bulk, only have the 1" gravel.
the 3/4" gravel by bag at Home Depot is $25 a pop.

3/4" vs 1", is there really a difference? (other than a 1/4")


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

As long as all soil-stone interfaces are wrapped, I would have no problem with 1".


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That will work.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Perfect, thank you for the replies


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

crankbait09 said:


> Finally got all my plumbing parts bought, or at least a good amount. Got the fabric ordered as well. Now the gravel.
> I see I should use 3/4", is there a reason 1" wouldn't work? The couple places around me that sell in bulk, only have the 1" gravel.
> the 3/4" gravel by bag at Home Depot is $25 a pop.
> 
> 3/4" vs 1", is there really a difference? (other than a 1/4")


The 3/4” would be slightly more efficient in holding the pipe away from the fabric and allowing more water to follow through the pipe instead of being absorbed into the ground. The 1” will work great.

Roger


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I started to dig the trench today, or continue. I was originally thinking I'd run the pipe across the yard and tie in to the downspout area. But instead, I continued the trench from the garage, straight, and will have it meet the patio trench. I'll need to widen that in order for it to fit both pipes. Figured this route would take the guess work out of figuring out which fittings / elbows I would need for it to line up exactly at the downspout area. Plus, I would have to contend with a buried electrical line that cuts through the yard. So I decided to avoid that all together.

I knew digging would be a lot of work, but....damn. I will chip away at it till its done, but 12-18" sure is a long way down when digging with a shovel. It certainly doesn't help that my dirt has clay in it, and that it's compacted mud due to all the rain we've gotten. So that makes it harder, in return tires me out faster.

But I'll get there.

When I run the garage line, side by side, in the porch trench.......the porch drain will be on gravel. The garage run, at this point will be solid pipe. That would be pointless to have on gravel, but I don't know how to avoid that with it being in the same trench as the porch perforated pipe. Is there a distance I need to have between the pipes?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

At the side of the patio I would join the two pipes with a T and a 90 and that would dictate how wide that trench is .
It doesn't matter how close or far apart or if they both sit in gravel.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Another clarification needed

once the trenches are dug, fabric in place, and 3" of gravel placed at the bottom, and the pipe sitting on top of that....do you continue to fill with gravel so that the whole burrito will be filled? Or am I ok with 3" on the bottom, wrap it, and fill back in with dirt?

Right now, with my trenches being open, it collects water and gets it away from the garage / basement. Looks like hell not being done, but it makes me nervous to close everything back up, and HOPING the water continues to move away from the problem areas. Hate to have to dig it all back up

I think I may have dug my trenches a tad deeper than I needed, but I can easily backfill if needed.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

The entire pipe needs to be wrapped in geotextile, then surrounded by gravel, then the entire gravel prism needs to be wrapped in geotextile. What is typically done is trench, place geotextile in the bottom of the trench, wrapping it up the sides of the trench to the surface and secured there. Then a couple inches of gravel is placed, and the (wrapped) pipe set in place. Gravel is partially backfilled around the sides of the pipe, and the pipe is adjusted laterally so that it's centered in the trench (because dumping the gravel can shift it around). Then it's covered with a couple more inches of gravel, and the geotextile is unsecured and wrapped over the gravel. Then it's backfilled with soil and compacted.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

did I read that right? I am wrapping the thin walled pvc pipe in geotextile before placing on the gravel?

no reason to wrap the solid (non-perforated) pipe, right?


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

huesmann said:


> The entire pipe needs to be wrapped in geotextile, then surrounded by gravel, then the entire gravel prism needs to be wrapped in geotextile. What is typically done is trench, place geotextile in the bottom of the trench, wrapping it up the sides of the trench to the surface and secured there. Then a couple inches of gravel is placed, and the (wrapped) pipe set in place. Gravel is partially backfilled around the sides of the pipe, and the pipe is adjusted laterally so that it's centered in the trench (because dumping the gravel can shift it around). Then it's covered with a couple more inches of gravel, and the geotextile is unsecured and wrapped over the gravel. Then it's backfilled with soil and compacted.


I believe he wants the water to flow in the drainage pipe. Wrapping the pipe and burying the pipe and gravel under dirt, defeats the purpose of the French drain.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

crankbait09 said:


> did I read that right? I am wrapping the thin walled pvc pipe in geotextile before placing on the gravel?
> 
> no reason to wrap the solid (non-perforated) pipe, right?


No you don’t wrap the thin wall PERFORATED pipe. I have never wrapped the pipe or buried the drainage system. Have never had a complaint and the french drains flow full pipe.

Roger


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

It depends on the size of your perforations, and the size of your gravel. 1" perfs with 3/4" gravel is a recipe for stone in your pipe. If your perfs are small, you can get away without a sock on the pipe.

Are you seriously contending that water won't flow through geotextile? Not wrapping your gravel, or not burying it, is a recipe for clogged gravel, and a non-op french drain.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

huesmann said:


> It depends on the size of your perforations, and the size of your gravel. 1" perfs with 3/4" gravel is a recipe for stone in your pipe. If your perfs are small, you can get away without a sock on the pipe.
> 
> Are you seriously contending that water won't flow through geotextile? Not wrapping your gravel, or not burying it, is a recipe for clogged gravel, and a non-op french drain.


Yes, landscaping fabric will allow water to flow throw, but it filters the dirt and that along with vegetation roots in that dirt, is what restrict the flow. The landscaping fabric is not needed to filter the water going into the pipe. Any dirt that gets in the piping will be washed out by the flowing water. Maybe, if you are dumping the water into a sump, to be pumped out you would be concerned about dirt, but that is not the OP's concern.
The holes in the perforated pipe that have seen are just 1/2” or small slits.

Roger


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Then you can probably get away without a sock on the pipe, but any geotechnical engineer will tell you that failing to wrap the gravel will result in clogged gravel. The point of the gravel is to allow water to flow into freely the pipe. By allowing soil particles to migrate into the gravel, you are clogging up the gravel and reducing the hydraulic conductivity of the system. Wrapping with geotextile keeps the soil particles where they belong—in the soil.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

huesmann said:


> Then you can probably get away without a sock on the pipe, but any geotechnical engineer will tell you that failing to wrap the gravel will result in clogged gravel. The point of the gravel is to allow water to flow into freely the pipe. By allowing soil particles to migrate into the gravel, you are clogging up the gravel and reducing the hydraulic conductivity of the system. Wrapping with geotextile keeps the soil particles where they belong—in the soil.


No one is debating the fact a French drain needs landscaping fabric to line the trench to keep the dirt out of the French drain. Covering the drain with landscaping fabric, dirt and sod, depends on how efficient you want the drain. If you are redirecting a water flow, covering the drain will hurt it's efficiency.
I have a 30 year old open French drain, that hasn't filled with dirt.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

You can put a (minimum for grass to live) 4" cap of soil on top of a french drain system ('system' meaning pipe/gravel/geo wrap). Deeper than 4" is fine too as it does not restrict how the water is flowing within the soil laterally, which is usually the sole purpose of grade-level french drain water collection. Leaving the top be exposed gravel would be if you want to help in sheetflow collection (surface water runoff), but usually you have a 'V' sloped grade above the pipe or it's against a wall where both collect the sheetflow that then filters down to the pipe.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you have a lot of surface water coming to your french drain, you haven't done enough regrading yet!


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

huesmann said:


> If you have a lot of surface water coming to your french drain, you haven't done enough regrading yet!


When the surface water is runoff from the neighbor, there is no regard option. A exposed gravel French drain, fence line or in landscaping, can be very attractive and beneficial between neighbors.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I am still digging, and checking in on these responses to make sure there are no questions for me. I did get the fabric in, but this digging is taking a long time.
my whole yard is on a downhill slope, so i think that is actually working in my favor. I have not set up a line level to see what slope im dealing with. we have had a lot of rain lately, and the water that is coming from the side of the garage is collecting in the deep trench in front of the patio. so i definitely know its coming down hill. the slope starts at about 12" at the top where the garage is, and i have it as deep as 18" near the patio. I'm thinking I might be able to fill a few inches of dirt back in that area. but once I continue the ditch digging, and have the bulk of it dug out, I'll see where muy high / low spots are. I started digging on the side of the house where I am making the run to daylight, damn, there's a lot of tree roots over there. 

I also ran into that existing green / blue pipe that is running parallel to the patio. I can tell when I get close to it, I start hitting gravel / dirt mixed. There are no signs of fabric at all. I'm almost thinking they installed the pipe, then threw gravel all around it and called it a day. I removed the pipe at the patio and cut it into sections for easy disposal. I looked inside and sure enough, mud all the way up to the drain holes. right now i'm debating cutting the drain pipe and abandoning it in place. The trench I started digging is actually running along side it. so that green pipe isn't even in my way. Figured, why make more work for my self to dig that pipe up, when i could just let it be.

but digging goes on......


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)




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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

As I mentioned above, I may have dug a tad bit too deep on the day light side of the run, but I'd rather backfill, than realize I need to dig more at the end, when at that point i will BE so over it. But I'll deal with depth as I begin to lay the pipe. I'm showing you some pictures of my status, but I am almost there.

I do have a question about my fittings where I merge the two pipes in front of the porch.
Here is a layout of what I was thinking. Is there a better or easier way to combine the two runs?
I might need to swap out the 90 with a 45 that leads to daylight, depending on the angle of the trench. I can carve out the radius to make it more of a 90 if need be, but I'm hoping I can make it work.
Anyways, would this layout work? The vertical hole at the top is for the downspout, the lower hole is for the cleanout I planned on installing.
Ignore the type of pipe in the pictures. I just grabbed a couple to give me a connector layout.

I need to dig a little past the tree you see on the right. I know I'll hit some nasty roots around there. I have sawzall pruning blades for that


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

The green elbow, should be more like the yellow elbow. That sharp of an 90 degree elbow would be hard to clean out and something like a short stick could get hung up there.

Roger


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Many ways to skin a cat . . . .
Here is a 45d Wye (instead of a Tee) with two 45d ELs, no cleanout as the downspout can be removed. Also the pipe along the side of house should be solid so it's not dumping water. Once you pick up that last downspout by the tree and are clear of the house then you can convert to perforated to help dump some water before the exit.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

before I call to complain, and end up looking like an ass, I would like some confirmation on what I am seeing here.

When I called the local landscaping nursery down the road, I asked for 1" washed gravel. I had it delivered to my house yesterday (Friday).
They pulled up with a 3500 Chevrolet that had a dump truck bed on it. They tilted it, and emptied it in my desired location. (details that you don't care about)

This is the gravel that was delivered. Something tells me their idea of 1" washed gravel and mine, are not the same. Something also tells me that I cannot use this gravel due to those bite size pebbles mixed all throughout. Thoughts?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I guess some one missed the 1" part of the order.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

so when I want 1" gravel, it should all be 1" or pretty darn close to, right? none of that pea/pebble junk.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> so when I want 1" gravel, it should all be 1" or pretty darn close to, right? none of that pea/pebble junk.


Here we would call that 1" minus, as in nothing bigger than. When we order a size it is all close to that size.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

correct me if I'm wrong, but if I wanted to use this gravel (to avoid the hassle of returning), I would need to make sure the 4" perforated pipe is wrapped in that fabric, right? To make sure no gravel gets through the holes

I'm just thinking if they won't take it back. I'm gonna be stuck with it.


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## b.rooster4321 (Apr 22, 2020)

Yes wrap the pipe in fabric and there are usually no returns on this kind of material without a fee


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

That is what I would call a well graded aggregate. If you use a sock on your pipe it'll be fine. (It's also more like pea gravel and river rock than gravel.)


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

ok, few questions about wrapping the pipe and the overall product.

1. the pipe. how tight does the fabric need to be around it? and how do you fasten the fabric to the pipe so it stays in place? I assume you'd be doing this "Seal" at the top.
2. once the pipe is sealed with fabric, the gravel in place, and you then wrap up all in a burrito, same question. how do you fasten it on the top so it stays closed.
3. at the ends / connectors / cleanouts, etc that will not need to be wrapped in fabric, what is the best way to seal the fabric ends off so that dirt does not enter into the perforated pipe areas?

I certainly hope I have enough fabric to wrap the pipe as well as covering the trench bottom. IF for some reason I don't, the fabric that covers just the pipe due to this gravel, can that be a lower grade fabric, less expensive?


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

crankbait09 said:


> ok, few questions about wrapping the pipe and the overall product.
> 
> 1. the pipe. how tight does the fabric need to be around it? and how do you fasten the fabric to the pipe so it stays in place? I assume you'd be doing this "Seal" at the top.
> 2. once the pipe is sealed with fabric, the gravel in place, and you then wrap up all in a burrito, same question. how do you fasten it on the top so it stays closed.
> ...


Before I changed anything on the original plan, I would call the rock supplier and give them a chance to correct their mistake. If you use this rock and it doesn’t work the way you want, it will be too late. That is called river rock, but what ever you call it, it’s not 1” gravel. It’s most likely more expensive than, run of the mill, 1” gravel. It’s very obvious they made the mistake and if they would charge to correct it, make it very clear to management, they have a dissatisfied customer.

Roger


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

1. The fabric doesn't need to be too tight, and seal doesn't need to be too tight either—just enough to stay in place when you shovel gravel on top. Since you only have perforations at 6:00 and 12:00, I'd say if you just lapped the fabric 2" at the 3:00 or 9:00 positions and taped it in place with some duct tape or something, that you'd be fine.
2. You're talking about the burrito wrap around the gravel? Typically you just lap the fabric over itself, on top of the gravel, then dump a shovel of dirt over it to keep it in place. Are you backfilling, running gravel all the way to the surface?
3. Not sure why you'd need to wrap the connectors.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

1. got it.

2. I will be back filling as much as I can. I don't want to see gravel on the surface once done.

3. ok. I am overthinking that. I'm thinking of gaps / cracks and any opening that would allow any substances in that I do not. so I was thinking of sealing everything! Never mind the fact that there are holes all along the pipe anyways 😄

I made a call to the landscaping place. It appears that what I got was what they claim to be 1" washed gravel. So it looks like I'm wrapping the pipe...........Guess that's what I get for assuming 1" washed gravel was 1" washed gravel, no matter where I went.

I believe my major digging is complete though. Now it'll be fine tuning / cleaning it up and making sure I have a slope.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I mean, I would glue any PVC pieces together. Never know if something will settle and drag any unglued pieces apart or something.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

since I am using the triple wall, thin pvc pipe and the fittings that go along with it........do you use normal primer / glue that you'd use on regular schedule 40? when I connect two pieces of pipe, then "snap" together. should those be glued as well? I was just thinking if I ever had to remove and replace any of this in the long run. easily take apart and replace as needed.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Do all the fittings also snap together, or just pipe sections?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

all the fittings are slip fittings. the pipes are the only ones that snap together.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Then yeah, I'd glue. Use whatever the manufacturer recommends.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

let me ask this. Since this gravel is not true 1" washed gravel, and it has all the pebbles mixed throughout. Could their potentially be issues with me using it? thinking more of long term. I really don't want to have to dig this back up to redo it later. I'm asking before I place it in the trench.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you wrap it, no problems. Even though it's graded, the smallest gradation isn't small enough to make a difference.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

alright, thank you. I know I will have more questions once I begin placing the pipe in the trench. Slope has me concerned too. I am having to go under electrical wire in two locations. Although I clear it, I am now at different elevations / slope. Again, im worried about things that might not be an issue. Worse case, I dig down another 2-3ft to get my slope. do what i gotta do


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

No problem having a compound slope on a pipe, as long as there is positive drainage.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

well, I am hesitant to start placing the fabric / pipe in the ditch. There is nothing holding me back on the garage part of the ditch. Other than me worrying about any bellies, or possibly not doing it right. In the picture you see here, that all slopes downward towards the house. perforated pipe will be stopping around the area of the step stone you see on the right. I will have to take the pipe under the electrical wire, and hopefully there will be enough slope towards the house. There is a huge piece of rock in that area too, so I had to create a path that hopefully the drain pipe can fit through. I tried digging that stone up, but it wasn't budging. I think I'll fill that void / belly with rock after the fabric is in place, and bring it up as high as i need to so that the pipe is sloping and continuing on. After that area, towards the house, it's all solid pipe. I imagine there will be quite a bit of backfill due to my over digging, as I expected. Best case, I get all this in place, but don't fill with dirt so I can see how this all works when it rains. So that will be my safest way to test it before enclosing.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you're talking about the "rock" next to the cables, it could be concrete from the foundation.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

is there any disadvantage to laying the gravel / pipe in sections, rather than doing it all in a days time?
I was going to start laying the fabric/gravel/pipe along the garage. Not sure how long that will take but we are expecting rain off and on. If I were to do that, and then need to stop for a day or more, would it cause me any headache when I come back?

I know I can't have all this routed in a day. I'm sure I will need to do more digging / back filling and possibly need connectors I wasn't banking on. I've put it off long enough, and need to get back to it so I can get all this closed up. (unsure of what I'm doing has me procrastinating)


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I know I couldn't get this all done in a day, so I'd lay as much as I could do in a day, complete, and leave the rest, maybe lay a tarp in the open trench to minimize cleanup time and erosion potential.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Next question, now that I am coming to this point of the drain
In the image below, I am showing two blue rectangles. Those represent possible clean outs. Is there any reason to have a cleanout for each run of pipe at this point?

I've got the line coming from the side of the garage, and at the patio junction, it's solid pipe. I have the perforated pipe running in front of the patio shown with circles. 

Cleanouts needed? I do have a clean out at the back of the garge / start of this down hill slope. So I do have that. But I am changing direction at the patio


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

I wouldn't put two drains in that location. I believe the garage line drain should be just a clean out. The water will take the path of least resistants. I can see water coming out a drain in that elbow area coming from the garage, instead of the piping.

Roger


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rogerwh said:


> I wouldn't but two drains in that location. I believe the garage line drain should be just a clean out. The water will take the path of least resistants. I can see water coming out a drain in that elbow area coming from the garage, instead of the piping.
> 
> Roger


They are not connected there.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't really understand why you have two parallel pipes.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

the two parallel pipes came into play in earlier replies to this thread.
it's to keep any additional water away from the patio, where it entered into the basement. Diverting it into it's own pipe, to stay clear of the patio area. Which was the main goal when starting this project. Rather than dumping the water coming from the garage area into the same pipe that feeds the patio drain, we'd keep that water separate so there was no chance of flooding into the basement again.

That's the way I understood it.

I'd love to only deal with one pipe, but the second pipe makes sense too. I don't wanna dig this back up again later.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

What's coming from the garage area, a roof downspout or something?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

the garage area is nothing but a perforated pipe. The way my yard is, is that it is on a slope. And that slope is steep enough to where I cannot level out and re-grade it. So the bottom of the slope meets the side of the garage. It is like that on both sides of the garage. I dug a small trench on each side, added as much dirt against the garage to cause a mini slope into the trench. So since I need to continue the trench and actually install a drain, that's where i am now. There is a Perforated pipe (30ft) running from the back corner of the garage, down towards this patio area. make sense?

so in summary, a drain pipe


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

So the pipe in your sketch with the "garage" arrow is also perforated? Just didn't show any perfs in the sketch.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

yes. mainly cause I wanted the attention focused on the patio area, which is where I am at now. I still need to run a perforated pipe in front of the patio. I wanted to know if two cleanouts were needed at this point (one for each pipe), so i could plan accordingly


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> yes. mainly cause I wanted the attention focused on the patio area, which is where I am at now. I still need to run a perforated pipe in front of the patio. I wanted to know if two cleanouts were needed at this point (one for each pipe), so i could plan accordingly


It should be years if needed, If you put Ys in for clean outs, I would leave them a little below surface.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

About having a cleanout for each pipe at this corner, IMO you'll probably never need them as both are just a french drain ([email protected] garage, 1 here) so no leaves or twigs getting in the pipe. Silt should wash out with solid pipe and a slope. I think you were going to put a catch basin on the solid there, but decided the driveway didn't need it, IIRC? At least do a long sweep for the 90* elbow then. 

If you want a cleanout stub, definitely can't hurt. If you don't like the look of two 4" PVC caps sticking up there, bury them as suggested, or maybe put an irrigation valve box as a cover for both, or the catch basin as those 9x9 black/green grates blend in pretty good. Also the pop-ups are flat and blend in pretty well.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Here's a thought. If I were to have two tees in the ground, one on each pipe at the corner of the patio, and out of that tee I would have a pipe coming up vertically. At the end of the vertical pipe, I would have one of these grates. Loosely fitting so that it could easily be lifted off for cleaning if I needed to. The only problem I am not sure how to get around is that I am not going to be having gravel at the surface of the grass. I want it to all be grass. So those grates would need to extend up a tad, so that dirt could not fall down inside. Unless there is another grate that would be better for this application.

This is what I was thinking. Black might also be better than white








NDS 4 in. Drain Pipe Drop-In Grate D3034 PVC 9P11 - The Home Depot


NDS 4 in. PVC SPT Drain Grate is ideal for use with sewer and drain pipes. Fits standard 4 in. Sewer and Drain Fittings. PVC construction is durable, lightweight, economical and resistant to corrosion



www.homedepot.com


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Why have a grate? Why not just a cleanout cap (with the raised square)?

But if you must have a grate, why not green if it's gonna be in a grassed area?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I was thinking about what 3onthetree said. I certainly don't want to see white caps sticking out of the ground. Guess there is no way to hide it, unless I paint them green to blend in with the grass. (there is that)

On the flip side, I was thinking of a grate, so if there happened to be any standing water / water that can go down the grate and into the pipe, the better. I guess to act like a catch basin


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

You can just bury the caps or mulch over them if landscaping there. If grates don't shoot your grass clippings that way.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

I guess I have come to the point where I need to make the best decision. I am now in front of the patio. 
I am either going to have two cleanouts, one for each line OR a cleanout on the solid line, and a catch basin for the perforated line, in the corner where the water was getting into the basement.

cleanouts are definitely cheaper


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

First world problems, eh? Don't worry, whatever you decide will look fine. Sounds like no Mrs running the show either


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> I guess I have come to the point where I need to make the best decision. I am now in front of the patio.
> I am either going to have two cleanouts, one for each line OR a cleanout on the solid line, and a catch basin for the perforated line, in the corner where the water was getting into the basement.
> 
> cleanouts are definitely cheaper


That is all I would do.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If you put a Y in the down hill direction and bury a clean out there and you still have water collecting , you can pull the clean out and add a grate.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

3onthetree said:


> First world problems, eh? Don't worry, whatever you decide will look fine. Sounds like no Mrs running the show either


nope, all me


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

ok, another thought that is a big factor. In this sketch, (I've mentioned this before), maybe this will help decide what's best here in the corner.

red line isn't the issue. I can add a cleanout at the end of that run. done

green line. If I put a cleanout right there at the end (black), that will leave a good 9-12" of nothing to collect the water that drains from the top of the grass down, other than the gravel that would be underneath. 

the blue line represents where the water was getting into the crack of the sidewalk / driveway which then made its way to the basement. I need to figure out how to keep water away from that location at all cost. blue line = bad 

Right now, the bottom of the trench at that location is 12" deep (purple dimension). Yes, this can be deeper if needed, but I'm trying not to since the slope is going in the direction of the bottom of the picture. So far I will be needing to back fill a tad, not much, before I lay the fabric and gravel.

As for the green / black line.....that is why my mind was stuck on a drain at that location.

does this change anyones thoughts as it has mine? 😄


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Consider the gravel as the drain and the pipe just a hole in the drain for water to move faster. If the gravel goes to the end, the shorter pipe will still move the water away.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

would it be a bad idea to top the porch area with dirt / grass? I was going to have gravel at the bottom, but return it back to grass at ground level. That's leaving a lot of hop that the grass / dirt soak up the water fast enough so it gets into the drain pipe below


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

another question. I don't think this will really matter, but I'll ask.
In the photo below, you will see the perforated pipe in red, on the left. It is sitting on the bed of gravel. The right side is holding the solid pipe. If I were to remove the gravel from the right side, and pull the fabric towards the center of that gravel path, that would leave me with the fabric as a separator. I'm wasting a lot of gravel on the right side, when that could simply be dirt that the solid pipe can sit on.

The picture below is what I am thinking.

No reason that can't work, right?

Right now, for some reason, I am having a really hard time sloping that gravel path. I've tried 3 times, and give up due to frustration. I'm gonna check the pipes today, im wondering if they are bowed, or not exactly level. If that's the case, then I will know what I am fighting.

Anyways, can I divide that trench with no issues?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't see how you really need gravel around a solid pipe...should be fine.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

checking back.....with a questionable event yesterday.
yesterday we got a huge downpour that lasted all day. In doing so, the water was flowin'! I did have water coming out the pipe in massive amounts. the pipe that ran along the garage and that made it up towards the porch. Since that porch area is not done, all that water dumped there and flowed on down the line. All good there, I was happy to see it. After it rained, all the trench dirt top soil was wet and soft as I expected. With it being wet I was curious to see how strong the ground was underneath.

I stepped on the left and right of the pipe (solid pipe), and I immediately sank. I was highly alarmed initially, and maybe I should be. I think this was mainly due to the dirt settling and all that water compacted it even more. Although I used a tamper where I could, I Had to pack the dirt in as tight as I could with the limited space I had at that location of the pipe. I didn't make it as wide since there was no gravel or fabric going in. Just dirt and pipe.

I'm thinking this is nothing more than settling dirt, and I need to follow it up with more dirt to continue to fill the sinking areas. ya?

I walked towards the garage to see if the same thing would happen in the gravel / perforated pipe area, and it did. Just not nearly as bad. Guess the tamper didn't do as much as I thought it would.

Here are a couple pictures and a video of the pipe working yesterday (hopefully you can view it). If you can click on the second photo, it'll take you to the video for viewing. at least it does for me.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

The places where you stepped—any stone-soil interfaces are separated by fabric? What did you use to tamp?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

yes, wherever there is stone / dirt interfaces are separated by fabric.
The biggest sinking I ran into was the dirt only areas. Those were areas I could only stomp with my feet / hands. 

I used my body weight for tamping where I was able. I used the tamper in larger areas. Obviously the tamper couldn't do a lot of the pipe areas, it was mainly for when i back filled the top.

Do I need to dig up the pipe and redo, or just simply add dirt in the sunken areas?









Razor-Back 10 in. x 10 in. Steel Tamper 30005 - The Home Depot


This Razor-Back tamper is ideal for tamping asphalt, gravel, stone and dirt. This all steel constructed tamper is durable to withstand heavy duty construction for industrial, residential and commercial



www.homedepot.com


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Did you back fill the trench with dirt to level the pipe?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Also, to properly backfill, you have to do it in lifts (layers). Can't throw 2' of dirt in a 2' trench and just tamp the top and expect it to be properly consolidated.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

yes, I did back fill to fill in voids.

huesmann - dammit. that's what I did too. sorta. I did put a lot in, and topped off as I saw it sink. But I might have filled too much to start. Do I keep filling with dirt now till it stops sinking over time, or do i need to dig it all back up?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> yes, I did back fill to fill in voids.
> 
> huesmann - dammit. that's what I did too. sorta. I did put a lot in, and topped off as I saw it sink. But I might have filled too much to start. Do I keep filling with dirt now till it stops sinking over time, or do i need to dig it all back up?


So do you have perf pipe at the garage and then change to solid for down the driveway?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

yes


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> yes


So the perf pipe is laying on gravel and then the solid pipe is on loose dirt?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

correct


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> correct


So water in the gravel below the pipe can just wash out the dirt below the solid pipe.
1. We never want to set a pipe on loose dirt, it should be on undisturbed soil so it is less likely to wash away. 
2. We need a way to contain the water at the top to force it into the pipe, or surround the solid pipe with gravel and let the water run there too.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

Have been able to say why the water is standing in the trench in front of the patio. This water is supposed to be going through the rock, into the pipe.
I never see water on top of these rocks and yet the pipe at the street runs nearly full most of the time.

Roger


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

so if I get the trench filled back in with dirt, around the solid pipe, it would then meet up with the fabric and gravel in front of the porch. Once that's all filled in, there would be no way for the dirt along the solid pipe to get washed away. right? Dirt would have no where to go. Right now its getting washed away to the area that I don't have it finished (the white pipe sticking out (video) )

am i needing to remove the dirt around the solid pipe, and adding gravel into the sides?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> so if I get the trench filled back in with dirt, around the solid pipe, it would then meet up with the fabric and gravel in front of the porch. Once that's all filled in, there would be no way for the dirt along the solid pipe to get washed away. right? Dirt would have no where to go. Right now its getting washed away to the area that I don't have it finished (the white pipe sticking out (video) )
> 
> am i needing to remove the dirt around the solid pipe, and adding gravel into the sides?


No, loose dirt will just wash down and fill the fabric or gravel and plug every thing.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

what is my solution then?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> what is my solution then?


Thinking about it. How wide is the trench at the top of the solid pipe by the garage?


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

12-16" or close to. I can go out and measure here after in a while if you need exact


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> 12-16" or close to. I can go out and measure here after in a while if you need exact


No but I think you have to plan on a redo to make this work. With some kind of sump at the top, something like a 5 gal pail maybe.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> No but I think you have to plan on a redo to make this work. With some kind of sump at the top, something like a 5 gal pail maybe.


OMG, 5 gallon bucket is your solution? At this point, the OP needs to stop posting and do what HE thinks needs to be done. 

Roger


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rogerwh said:


> OMG, 5 gallon bucket is your solution? At this point, the OP needs to stop posting and do what HE thinks needs to be done.
> 
> Roger


Adding to a discussion is better than critizism of those that are trying to figure it out. 

Maybe something like this,


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

rogerwh said:


> OMG, 5 gallon bucket is your solution? At this point, the OP needs to stop posting and do what HE thinks needs to be done.
> 
> Roger


I am not experienced in this at all. From the videos and instruction I seen online, I assumed I did everything right.
I don't fault anyone for their suggestions. I figured anyone chiming in on this has been there and done that.
I certainly didn't expect the sinking that I witnessed, never knew it would happen.

I appreciate any help I can get. I am doing the work after all.
Just trying to avoid any big mistakes that would having me redoing what I have already done. Kinda what it sounds like I'm running into now. I haven't tried fixing anything yet. Everything is still mud. Gotta let it dry a tad.

If I knew what should be done, I certainly wouldn't be on here asking for help.

What I think would be right, might not be the best decision. So I would rather hear about it now, than later.

If you have any brainy ideas, I would certainly like to hear them


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

nealtw - even if i had gravel on the sides of the solid pipe, the water would still be able to flow underneath it, wouldn't it?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> nealtw - even if i had gravel on the sides of the solid pipe, the water would still be able to flow underneath it, wouldn't it?


But if the pipe is at the bottom of the trench the dirt is harder to move.
You night just put the dam in to stop the water at the end of the gravel first and see what happens with the pipe where it is now.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

gotcha, the dirt below the pipe is actually loose / disturbed dirt. I had to backfill some since I made it a tad too deep. As I will with other places. I got dig happy


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

crankbait09 said:


> gotcha, the dirt below the pipe is actually loose / disturbed dirt. I had to backfill some since I made it a tad too deep. As I will with other places. I got dig happy


You are better to set the pipe on bricks or something and then back fill the low spots with a gravel so if water gets in there it is not eating your dirt.
Loose dirt turning to mud will allow the pipe to settle and bend causing places for water to sit. And that is where dirt will settle and cause plug ups later. not so bad on a sloped area but if you are close to min slope it can be bad news.


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## rogerwh (Mar 1, 2021)

crankbait09 said:


> I am not experienced in this at all. From the videos and instruction I seen online, I assumed I did everything right.
> I don't fault anyone for their suggestions. I figured anyone chiming in on this has been there and done that.
> I certainly didn't expect the sinking that I witnessed, never knew it would happen.
> 
> ...


I don't see how you continue to reply to someone that reply’s to your question with "think about it" and than tells you to use a 5 gallon bucket.
There is no reason to have gravel around your solid pipe. Water moving in or around the gravel you buried with the solid pipe will erode the dirt and will need to surface if it has no other place to go. That is why there should be no rock around a solid pipe.
Where did the 5 gallon bucket go??

Roger


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Honestly, the soil will continue to consolidate with enough water, as long as it drains. You will want to have a stockpile that you can continue adding from as it settles—you should have a lot left over given you put two pipes _and _stone in the trench. You just want to keep it from washing away when it rains—cover the bare earth with coir matting or something.


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## crankbait09 (Mar 26, 2011)

Yep, I definitely have more than enough dirt. Still piles and piles of it


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