# Recommend me a Primer for new drywall



## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Hey Guys,
I'm building a new house and just finished my drywall sanding. I'm ready for paint. I'm spraying BM aura flat paint on the walls. What primer should I use. I've heard good and bad about PVA primers (from a previous thread here)? Do I need a sealer? Also, I'm going with a smooth finish all the way around. I'm a weekend warrior that has a cheapie Graco airless. Also, I did all of the work myself (framing and drywall) so since I'm not a pro, I want something to hide some of my areas that are not perfect. Thanks guys


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

These are good primers for drywall.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Zinsser 123 gets my vote. :thumbsup:


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

homeby5 said:


> Also, I did all of the work myself (framing and drywall) so since I'm not a pro, I want something to hide some of my areas that are not perfect. Thanks guys



Camouflage works pretty well! Kidding of course. But sponge painting a dark color over a lighter base coat works amazingly well at hiding surface defects.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

or since you are going to BM anyway


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Most of the articles I read say I should spray a PVA drywall primer...especially since I'm putting on a flat wall paint. Then I jump on the forums and talk to the pro's and some recommend a PVA primer and some say that it's crap and they wouldn't prime a turd with it. Then I jump on the SW website and they recommend their PVA drywall primer. The thing is I don't mind spending premium money on a drywall primer but it's confusing as hell. I don't want to waste money either.
Can anyone explain why I should spend $30 a gallon on a non-PVA primer? What are the downsides of using an $10 a gallon PVA? Please include specifics like the finish will be not a smooth or the PVA will not cover the imperfections or something like that. I really like to follow advice on forums because it's real world advice. But on this, I'm getting mixed reviews.
Thanks guys


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I assume you meant your using Aura Matte wall paint since Aura doesn't come in flat. Aura is a super high quality modern acrylic coating that does not require or recommend a primer on drywall at all. 

That said, you can still see advantages to priming such as providing slightly higher film build to help hide your defects and somewhat increased spread rates for your top coats. 

If your going to use the best paint on the market, it makes little sense to me to use the crappiest primer available. It would be like buying a Ferrari then putting cheap non detergent oil in it. 

I had one experience with the SW PVA primer myself. I used it on a new home where the finish was to be Cashmere (another SW product). It was very cheap, like $10 a gallon, so I thought I would try it. After priming the joint compound had 'flashed' through the whole house. I tried finish painting one wall to see if it would matter and the flashing came right through the top coat as well. 

I called SW and they sent a rep out to the job to review the problem. His response was "that just happens with PVA and some types of joint compound, it's not the first time I've seen it. Only solution is to reprime, sorry" 

I made a thread on here with pics when it happened I think. Something like "flashing joint compound and PVA primer" if you care to look for it. 

The only benefit, and the reason it's recommended IMO, to using PVA primer is that it is more tolerant of surface dust than some higher quality primers or self priming acrylics. PVA and some other specialty drywall primers can be used on new drywall that hasn't been throughly cleaned with little risk of adhesion problems caused by dust. 

If you really don't want to take the time to make sure your new drywall is clean and dust free then PVA or another specialty drywall primer may indeed be your best option. Completely cleaning new drywall of dust is not small task and it's often not done by new construction painters. 

My advice would be to take the time to clean the drywall off. Vacuum the surface then wipe with a slightly damp rag or use a leaf blower and a soft brush to remove all dust. You could then use an appropriate high quality primer like the Fresh Start previously recommended, or at least the 123 which is also a very good primer that's priced economically.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Pva primer tend to flash this means you may get shiney looking spots in your topcoat and Pva also can show a difference in your topcoat over joint compound and drywall.

I stopped using Pva several years ago. 123 primer one of the best, in my opinion, is $19 a gallon at the box store.


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Great info guys. Let me expand some things. I was planning on using a BM high quality "flat" style finish. We didn't want a sheen. I don't have to go with Aura. My goal is to have a durable, non sheen finish. I could go with Regal or whatever. I am prone to BM paints as I've had good results in the past but I could use something else. 

Speaking of dust, I was planning on blowing the dust off the wall and that's it. I've read many opinions that say it's not recommended to wipe every bit of dust from the wall. Some even like leaving some dust. Anyway, I have a compressor so I figured I would blow it off. Should I reconsider if I use a non PVA primer?

Anyway, thanks guys. This is exactly the good information I was looking for


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

just about every drywall manufacturer specifies "high solids" drywall primer or all purpose primer. PVA is technically not a primer but a sealer, and it has a very low solids content. The only pigmentation it has is so it can be seen while it is being applied. There are some paint companies that make a low solids "primer" and market it as a PVA primer, but this is kind of misleading because it doesn't prime or seal very well at all. A higher solids drywall "primer" will be easier to sand and it will help smooth any surface imperfections in the drywall and mud. Years ago I was told by a drywall rep that the requirement for PVA sealers has been out of date since the early 80's, but since it is cheap paint stores and home improvement stores keep selling it to keep the "cheap" paint store ideal in consumers minds. The way he explained it was this- drywall used to have a sealer applied during the manufacturing process on the gypsum BEFORE the paper was applied. Sometime in the early 80's USG, one of the major manufacturers, started streamlining the manufacturing process by skipping the gypsum sealing process and relying on the paper adhesive to basically hold the gypsum together while the manufacturing process was being completed. What this meant was that instead of being able to put a PVA sealer on the drywall, a higher solids primer had to be applied to the drywall to provide a proper "holdout" of the topcoat. What was happening was that in the old process, the gypsum was sealed already and when a PVA sealer was put on the drywall it only had to absorb into and seal the paper. But when that process was eliminated, the PVA sealer would soak into the gypsum and there would virtually be no sealer at all on the paper. 

But again this is what happened in the drywall world. At some point the paint companies either didn't get that memo or they flat out ignored it, as PVA sealer was being sold pretty much as a commodity and they didn't want to give up on a product that was cheap as hell to make and would make them look like kings to the consumer when they sold it for $29 a bucket. Remember that most new build homes are just painted flat. That is so the builders can just use the cheapest paint they can, and they don't have to worry about the extra step of properly priming the drywall to provide a good sheen holdout. If you have ever tried to paint a room in a new home Semi-gloss without priming first you would see what I mean. The first coat sucks right into the drywall because there is nothing to stop it from soaking straight into the gypsum. What you end up with is a wall that is "blotchy" with no consistant gloss. I high solid primer will eliminate these issues.

If price is a major consideration the Bullseye 123 is hard to beat. I also would recommend, if there is a PPG store in your area, that you use a Hi-build drywall primer, as this will help you smooth any rough areas or imperfections in the drywall and mud. The product they have is called Speedhide hi-build drywall primer, and if I remember correctly the item number is 6-4. Another one to consider if there is a Pratt & Lambert store nearby is their Prohide Silver Hi-Build drywall primer.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I actually wouldn't recommend Aura, because
a) it doesn't come in Flat, and 
b) it dries pretty fast and isn't the most DIY friendly paint in the world

Regal would be a perfectly fine quality paint. The sheen and fast drying in Aura Matte can cause some issues in application, let alone with existing drywall flaws and flashing.

Here's the important thing to remember with primers: first, identify what _problem_ you're trying to solve. Then, use a primer to solve _that problem_.

Personally if painting with a quality Flat such as Regal, I wouldn't bother using a primer anyway. If I really felt the problem that needed solving was in _sealing_ the drywall, I would prime with Gardz first. But modern high quality Flat paints don't really need this.

However if you're concerned about flaws in your drywall finish, then that is a different problem with a different solution. First solution of course would be to pay more attention to your joint finishing. If needed, do more sanding and don't be afraid of putting on a 4th or even 5th pass if necessary with your joint compound. Put a light perpendicular to the wall to highlight any issues, and fix those issues.

If you insist on a primer to help fix drywall problems rather than fixing them at drywall time, then what you want is a high build primer, to help fill in those tiny nooks and ridges and valleys. It will only help with the smallest of those problems though.

Personally I would just sand and then thoroughly wipe/vacuum the walls. Then two coats of Regal. Flat paint will itself hide some flaws in your drywall. It's only when you get into finishes like Matte or Eggshell and higher sheens that you need to worry about flashing and highlighting your drywall flaws.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

And to add to what we've already said:

As I said, you're looking to use a primer to solve some problem. But there are some problems that should not be solved with a primer. For example, if you're looking for a primer to adhere better on drywall that is dusty, as jmays said, then what you really should be doing is cleaning that drywall first as best you can. Don't get lazy if you want good results. If you're looking for a primer to cover your drywall flaws, as klaatu said, then what you really should be doing is a better job of drywall finishing. Just do it right.

At that point, the only problem you're really left with is absorption rates of different areas of the drywall of the paint resin, to avoid paint flashing. That can be solved with a good sealer, but it can also be solved by simply using quality Flat paint.


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Thanks.
I am going over my joint finishes with a light and hand sanding any imperfections. I'm making it perfectly smooth. Even on the ceiling as I am going smooth up top also. There will be no grooves or scratches. But, there are some high spots in the wall where the framing wasn't exactly perfect so I feathered my joints really big. I don't think they will be noticeable but if you put a giant straightedge on the drywall you definitely would have some high spots on some of the taped joints. I'm assuming no primer will help that.
So...if I spray Regal flat, should I blow the dust off and not use a primer? Should I go so far as to wipe walls with a sponge after blowing? I also wanted to use a primer and hopefully only use one coat of paint as the paint is much more expensive and I didn't want to waste paint to absorb in the drywall. I assumed the primer would save me money on paint?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

homeby5 said:


> I don't think they will be noticeable but if you put a giant straightedge on the drywall you definitely would have some high spots on some of the taped joints. I'm assuming no primer will help that.


Good job. Correct.



homeby5 said:


> So...if I spray Regal flat, should I blow the dust off and not use a primer? Should I go so far as to wipe walls with a sponge after blowing?


Yes.



homeby5 said:


> I also wanted to use a primer and hopefully only use one coat of paint as the paint is much more expensive and I didn't want to waste paint to absorb in the drywall.


OK, first understand what's happening here. When we talk about sealing drywall, and flashing of sheen paints, we're talking about different absorption rates of the shiny, resin part of the paint. This really isn't an issue with Flat paint, because it doesn't have much shiny resin. So in this context, you want some paint to "absorb" into the drywall, to give you the best adhesion.



homeby5 said:


> I assumed the primer would save me money on paint?


Well, that's a completely different question. Depending on your paint color, you might be able to tint your primer, and get by with 1 primer coat and 1 finish coat. (It might not be quite as durable, but if you're not going to be scrubbing your walls a lot, it might not matter.) But it does have to look completely saturated colorwise, and depending on the color Regal is a good enough paint to sometimes achieve that.

Tell us the total square footage of wall space you're going to paint, we we can show you the math of whether a primer would save or cost you money. If it is a small room that takes about a gallon and a half, then using primer would often cost you more money.


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

It's a new construction. 3000sf air with 9 1/2 ceilings. I plan on using BM ceiling white flat up top. Hopefully use the same primer for walls and ceiling.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

If you're painting the entire house, then a coat of primer followed by a coat of Regal will surely cost you less than 2 coats of Regal.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> And to add to what we've already said:
> 
> As I said, you're looking to use a primer to solve some problem. But there are some problems that should not be solved with a primer. For example, if you're looking for a primer to adhere better on drywall that is dusty, as jmays said, then what you really should be doing is cleaning that drywall first as best you can. Don't get lazy if you want good results. If you're looking for a primer to cover your drywall flaws, as klaatu said, then what you really should be doing is a better job of drywall finishing. Just do it right.
> 
> At that point, the only problem you're really left with is absorption rates of different areas of the drywall of the paint resin, to avoid paint flashing. That can be solved with a good sealer, but it can also be solved by simply using quality Flat paint.




This is true on this initial paint job. But on subsequent paint jobs it will be more difficult to use a paint with any sheen, as the initial holdout problem hasn't been addressed. Using two coats of a high quality flat such as regal will work, and it will provide a nice flat, even coat of paint. But if someone ever wants or needs to change that flat finish to say a satin, it will take 2, maybe 3 coats of that satin to effectively provide an even satin finish. OR, it would need to be primed and at least one coat of paint applied. I am a big fan of thinking ahead and considering that at some point someone will want a higher sheen, and that's why I am a big fan of using a good high solids primer on the drywall. And I agree with the point of doing the drywall and mud prep correctly as opposed to relying on a high build primer to "fix" flaws. But most DIY'ers, even with best intentions, rarely are able to get the drywall mud as smooth as they would like too. That's were a hi build primer can help out a little bit. It can hide sanding marks and such pretty well, and the sanding process is where most DIY'ers are lacking. It's a suggestion, but not a hard fast rule. Also, if they wish to do additional sanding after the prime coat, a hi-build primer is easier for DIY'ers to sand then something like 123 ( which I hope we all agree doesn't sand quite as well as it did twenty years ago).


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Ok....so now that I've explained in more detail my job, I'm back at selecting my primer. Should I use a PVA followed by Regal flat and Ceiling white or use a more expensive primer. Again assuming that I'm sanding it nice, with a light....but still I am an amaeture.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

homeby5 said:


> Hopefully use the same primer for walls and ceiling.


Not the same tinting though, of course.

By the way, notice that we're using the primer to solve a different problem now. The problem is color saturation in one coat, so now what we're doing is color priming, to save money.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

klaatu said:


> This is true on this initial paint job. But on subsequent paint jobs it will be more difficult to use a paint with any sheen, as the initial holdout problem hasn't been addressed....I am a big fan of thinking ahead and considering that at some point someone will want a higher sheen...


Yeah, that's a good point. In my experience, I've never had a problem going back over flat paint with more sheen at a later date. Could be because of all the time the paint has had to cure, as opposed to new paint jobs where you're going over a coat within a few hours? Not sure, not enough data points for me to figure that out.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

homeby5 said:


> Ok....so now that I've explained in more detail my job, I'm back at selecting my primer. Should I use a PVA followed by Regal flat and Ceiling white or use a more expensive primer. Again assuming that I'm sanding it nice, with a light....but still I am an amaeture.


why, yes, indeed:thumbsup:

also, get the dust off, it is NOT good, I don't care what anybody else says, NOT good


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Ok....so based on you guys sugestions I will use 123 
Also, I have a compressor to blow the dust off and a shop vac. Any ideas on the best method for removing dust without me having to buy any special tool?
Thanks


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

You could sweep it with a soft bristled broom, or after blowing with a compressor (or the outlet end of the shop vac) go over it with a damp (not wet) floor mop, or just a towel in your hand. Doesn't really take that long, except that you have a whole house


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Since nobody mentioned it I will since I HATE flat paint on walls. Are you aware of the downside to flat, attracts dirt, shows fingerprints, basically unwashable, makes the walls looked tired and in need of painting. Just personal opinion.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

There are pros and cons.

The look is personal preference. If you like flat, you like flat. Some people just "flat out" don't like shiny walls.

The stuff you said isn't really opinion, it's fact. But some walls don't get touched by fingers or need washing, so it might not be an issue.

In rental properties, or areas that need yearly maintenance, then it's an issue of a maintenance strategy. Do you want to clean the walls, or do you simply want to repaint them for the freshest look? Do you need to just touch them up, or will you be repainting the entire wall? If you repaint rather than clean, or do frequent touchups, then flat paint is obviously the answer. If you don't need to do touchups (for nail holes, dings, etc), or if you get water splashes or require frequent cleaning, then obviously eggshell+ is what you want.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jeffnc said:


> There are pros and cons.
> 
> The look is personal preference. If you like flat, you like flat. Some people just "flat out" don't like shiny walls.
> 
> ...


 
I would be one of those


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Would the 123 primer be OK on the wooden attic access door?


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

homeby5 said:


> Would the 123 primer be OK on the wooden attic access door?


Yes. :thumbsup:


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

Thanks for all of you guys help. Hopefully this thread will help others. I'm sure I will post some new threads as soon as I finish painting and move onto my next phase of my home building project. 
I have built this most of this home by myself, with the help of places such as this. I contracted my concrete shell, HVAC and the roof (because I suffered a stroke and lost some use of my legs) but other than that I have done the work. Places like this have helped me while doing the framing, electrical, plumbing and cabinet construction. IMO, this is what the internet is about....sharing info. I only feel bad because I am not a pro so I don't know if I can help others as much as I have been helped. But I will scan the threads and maybe I can contribute


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

homeby5 said:


> IMO, this is what the internet is about....sharing info.


Agreed.



homeby5 said:


> I only feel bad because I am not a pro so I don't know if I can help others as much as I have been helped. But I will scan the threads and maybe I can contribute


You might be surprised. You've learned a lot you can share. Besides, you learn just as much by answering questions as by asking them.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Since the elimination of drywall dust seems to be central to this thread, I thought I'd explain how I eliminate drywall dust before priming.

What I do is get a large (9 inches long by 6 inches wide) green or grey ultrafine Scotchbrite pad from any place that sells machine shop supplies. Machine shops use those large format pads to polish metals like brass and aluminum after machining it. The grey ultrafine pads work the best because they're more loosely woven with a thinner fiber that allows much more space for drywall dust.

Then I cut the Scotchbrite pad lengthwise so that it's 3 1/4 inch wide and 9 inches long and put that on my hand sander. Now I put an 80 or 100 grit sanding screen ON TOP OF the Scotchbrite pad and secure it to the hand sander. So, when I'm sanding, the dust goes through the sanding screen and accumulates in the Scotchbrite pad between the screen and the hand sander. I go around with my sanding screen in one hand and my vaccuum cleaner nozzle in the other. I sand all my joints and screw locations, and frequently stop to hold the hand sander horizontal with the vaccuum nozzle below it, and then gently tap the hand sander against the wall. When I do this, the dust that has accumulated in the Scotchbrite pad comes pouring out and gets sucked into my vaccuum cleaner.

Then I run the sanding screen over the nozzle of my vaccuum cleaner to suck the remaining dust out of the Scotchbrite pad, and run the vaccuum nozzle over the wall I'm sanding to remove any residual dust from there too.

I find that system works well for me because a lot of dust will accumulate in the sanding screen's Scotchbrite pad and won't come out until you hold the tool horizontal and tap it against the wall. Then it all comes out and you can do that directly over top of the suction end of your vaccuum hose to clean up the dust you've created.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

It's easier if you simply use a vacuum attachment for the sander. You can also use a water trap to collect the dust before it gets to your vacuum.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Even just a damp rag will work.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

broom and a damp rag is all I use, 
shop vac makes marks on the wall, blowing it off just blows it around and re-attaches a little lower


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I was talking about during the sanding process itself, in response to Nestor's post. You can put a whole lot of dust in the air during sanding with a vacuum attachment.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

if I am doing a significant amount amount of drywall sanding, I rent a drywall sander for the day, has its own vacuum, a handle long enough to do ceilings and it saves my own sanders and shop vac from the dust


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> I was talking about during the sanding process itself, in response to Nestor's post. You can put a whole lot of dust in the air during sanding with a vacuum attachment.


I meant you can put a lot of dust in the air withOUT a vacuum attachment. It could be something as simple as this with your own shop vac
http://www.zoro.com/hyde-vacuum-han...q4BYPZn7lgH-ikGEA13MkaApXw8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or as advanced as this
http://www.shopfestool.com/festool-...eZxTifzLgLfwAKnhGO2UJ4QamwIzuKdGjcaAmzg8P8HAQ


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> I meant you can put a lot of dust in the air withOUT a vacuum attachment. It could be something as simple as this with your own shop vac
> http://www.zoro.com/hyde-vacuum-han...q4BYPZn7lgH-ikGEA13MkaApXw8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> Or as advanced as this
> http://www.shopfestool.com/festool-...eZxTifzLgLfwAKnhGO2UJ4QamwIzuKdGjcaAmzg8P8HAQ



Option 1 - save your money and your shop vac,
Option 2 - unless you are a drywall pro (which I am not or aspire to be) rent it for $50/day well worth the $


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jeffnc said:


> I meant you can put a lot of dust in the air withOUT a vacuum attachment. It could be something as simple as this with your own shop vac
> http://www.zoro.com/hyde-vacuum-han...q4BYPZn7lgH-ikGEA13MkaApXw8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> Or as advanced as this
> http://www.shopfestool.com/festool-...eZxTifzLgLfwAKnhGO2UJ4QamwIzuKdGjcaAmzg8P8HAQ


2 grand I think I will stick with my broom


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## homeby5 (Jul 26, 2015)

I ended up blowing air from my compressor, working the top down and then brushing the walls with a broom. Feels OK to me.
The blowing seems to work well as once the dust settles I blow a second time over the same area and hardly no dust moves. That tells me it's on the floor.


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