# Which cordless drill is better?



## RyanD (Mar 23, 2009)

I want a really nice drill/driver that will last and will work in most situations. My current driver is really old and can't handle much and the battery dies quickly. I've a few people recommend these and they look very similar so I'm unsure on which one is better. Any pros/cons to either? Would these drivers work fine for the DIY'er that uses them occasionally or are they overkill? Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BDF452...um-Ion/dp/B000K6ILDW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2601-22-18-Volt-Li-ion-Compact/dp/B000WER5SE/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

RyanD said:


> .......Would these drivers work fine for the DIY'er that uses them occasionally....


 I think either would be overkill. Go to a store that carries either or both and handle them to see how they feel. They are both excellent tools made for hard heavy duty use. You may be better off with a lighter compact Li-Ion drill/driver with a 3/8" chuck. Here is a review from JLC that has both the hex chucks and the 3/8" chucks. For DIY use the 3/8" chucks are preferable because they work with standard drill bits along with driver bits.
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/49dc798b1369e8e327170a32100a06c0/UserTemplate/82?c=f5f3276c525081d3e65455f2eb5de536&p=1

The Makita 3/8" chuck Compact did not make it in time for that review:
Makita DF330DW 10.8V Compact Lithium-Ion Cordless 3/8" Driver-Drill Kit 
.


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

I have the Milwaukee similar to that one, except the battery is different. 

I'm a commercial/industrial electrician; believe me, if any tool can take the use I give it for more than a week, it's not just pretty tough, it's WAY tough!

Seriously, I use my drill alot, though I rarely abuse it. It's several years old, and still in good shape. 

One thing to look out for, most manufacturers have several tools that use the same battery. Look around a bit at what you might want in the future, and pick something out of a line of tools. Batteries are the weak point, they actually last longer if they're used more than occasionally. They last longer if they're kept charged too.

Rob


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Honestly, that Makita is extremely compact, maybe too much. Like stated above, check a local store to see which fits you better. I have the Milwaukee 18 volt also, but with the normal battery. I bought it because I have 4 other old 18 volt Milwaukee's that have taken some serios abuse (I'm a mason/concrete contractor w/ several employees who use these tools also) & still keep running. All of there new 18V batteries & tools interchange also, which is huge for us considering we have the saws, sawzall, radios too. I think there the only brand who does this. I finally broke down & bought the lithium about a month ago at a big pro tool place in my area for $159. He said they were making room for a new, M 18 series?, but said Milwaukee will continue to make adaptable batteries in the future, which is a huge selling/buying point for me. Nothing worse than buying the latedt/greatest today only for it to become ancient/unusable in 2-3 years.

Either way, I used them both, I don't think you can go wrong with either.


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## Gus (Dec 24, 2007)

A 14 volt would probably suffice for occasional use. I have 14.4v makita drill impact set and use it very often for a diy and I have never been disappointed in the performance. I don't ever use the drill for anything but drilling holes so I can't comment on it's driving performance. Both Milwaulkee and Makita make good power tool.


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## RyanD (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm looking at the kits, they seem to be cheaper and offer more tools. I'm confused though if I would need both of these, is one primarily for drilling and one for screwing(driving)?

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2691-22-18-Volt-Compact-Impact/dp/B001F7BIMG/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

That's a great set at a really good price. Use the drill primarily for drilling, and the impact for driving screws and bolts. Once you start using the impact you will never go back to a drill for driving screws. It will seat bolts/screws better, and will not twist your wrist. The drill has a lot more torque than most at 650 in-lbs; should be good for almost anything you want.

You will like the Li batteries too. Keep going strong until they stop (no slow down). It's very un-nerving the first couple of times it happens, but you get used to it.

No one really knows how long Li batteries will last, and that might be the weakest part of this kit. It looks like they gve a 5 year warranty, so they should be good for that.


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## joel v. (Jan 26, 2009)

Out of those two I would likely go for the Makita. The Makita on Amazon doesn't look like it has a 3.0 AH battery. Looks more like 1.5AH. The bigger battery is almost twice as big and each charge will allow more use It's odd that I'm telling you to go bigger but you want something that will last longer so here you go. I have no idea why someone would tell you to go 3/8 inch chuck. There is no advantage to it at all. It will only be a disadvantage. If you can swallow the initial cost than you'll be happy you bought the bigger drill. I should also mention that any pro Makita will be made in Japan. If it's made in China it's a consumer tool. http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BHP451...f=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1239190345&sr=1-16


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## RyanD (Mar 23, 2009)

Hmm, why is this combo so cheap? Is there something I'm missing about these tools?

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-269...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1239196783&sr=1-1

If you look at the separately or on other sites that's the price for about one of them. I did notice that they are using the special smaller battery(M18) which doesn't work with their other tools but I don't see this as the reason for the low price.

Read reviews on Amazon it seems all cordless tools have the same bad reviews about batteries. Is it hit or miss, should I go with the new Lithum batteries or stick with the old NiCd ones?


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

M18 I believe is the new product line designation from Milwaukee which is replacing the old V18 product line. I don't think the M18 and V18 batteries are interchangeable. I think the M18 batteries have a new (improved) chemistry giving them a longer life.

The M18 being the new line, is the one to go for.

The batteries in this kit are the smaller 'compact' batteries. If you are only going to be using them for the drill and impact, I think you will find them more than adequate, and probably get a days work out of a full battery on each tool (obviously it depends on how hard you work the tools).

The advantages of the smaller batteries are lighter weight, able to get the tool into smaller spaces, and quicker to recharge.

If you get additional tools in the M18 line (I don't know what is available), such as a saw, you might find these batteries do not produce very good run times; maybe 5 to 10 minutes with a circular or reciprocating saw.

Personally, I think this is a real deal. If I didn't already have a couple of good drills and impacts, I would think about ordering a kit myself.


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## RyanD (Mar 23, 2009)

Highlander said:


> M18 I believe is the new product line designation from Milwaukee which is replacing the old V18 product line. I don't think the M18 and V18 batteries are interchangeable. I think the M18 batteries have a new (improved) chemistry giving them a longer life.
> 
> The M18 being the new line, is the one to go for.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it seems like a great deal that's why I'm worried. :huh: I plan on only having cordless drills, everything else like saws I feel are best corded so I'm not worried about the batteries working in other devices.


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## clintb (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm loving the Milwaukee M18 tools; they all just feel right in my hands. Very good balance, excellent grip material placed well. My wife purchased the following set for me, Christmas '08 (great present!).
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-269...f=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1239202537&sr=8-3

I've been using everything in the kit during a full kitchen remodel and really appreciate each tool in the kit. The only weak point is the flashlight. Why couldn't they have used a good LED in there? Oh well, I have tons of great flashlights, so no biggie.

As to your question about the drill / driver and impact kit; GO FOR IT! The compact driver, with compact battery will be great for most of your normal needs. The impact will take care of the rest. Watch out though, the impact will break screws in a hurry if you just let it rip. It'll drive a drywall screw clean through 2x material in nothing flat.  It's really meant for larger fasteners, but will sure help out with a wood auger. :thumbsup:

Also, to note, the Milwaukee 12v stuff is super handy and can be more convenient than the 18v tools most of the time.


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

The impact can be a beast. The first couple of times I used one I had problems, but after I that I got used to it. I have no problems with using one for drywall screws. I don't pull it out for small screws (like cabinet screws), because I think it has too much power, but I use it for just about any other fastener.

I have both Li and NiCd batteries. I prefer to use the Li batteries because they don't slowly run down. Apart from the question over their 'life', Li seems to have the NiCd batteries beat. Some will say NiCd batteries don't last long, and therefore if the Li batteries only last 2 to 4 years, there is no difference. My personal experience; I have 12 NiCd batteries (4 different types) and all are still working. The oldest pair are now over 15 years old (circa 1992). The only battery out of all of them that seems to have a problem is one from this oldest pair, which seems to be losing charge quicker than all the rest while sitting on the shelf.

I have not experienced it, but I have heard Li batteries do not work well if allowed to get cold and then used.


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

I can personally attest to the fact that the Li batteries are horrible when cold. Far less capacity then a NiCd. They start suffering at about 40 degrees, then get much worse.

When they're warm though, they are considerably better than NiCd. 

Rob


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## RyanD (Mar 23, 2009)

micromind said:


> I can personally attest to the fact that the Li batteries are horrible when cold. Far less capacity then a NiCd. They start suffering at about 40 degrees, then get much worse.
> 
> When they're warm though, they are considerably better than NiCd.
> 
> Rob


So, as long as I can don't use them in the cold for a long period of time(which I can't imagine doing) then they work well?

Looking around that set seems to range from $200 to $250 so it looks like a standard deal. Great deal so I think I'm going to tac it onto my "New House Wishlist" on amazon. :whistling2:


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Toolbarn has the same $200 price for the pair
http://dealspl.us/product/milwaukee-2691-22-18-volt-compact-drill-and-impact-wrench-combo-kit

If you go to Amazon check for a coupon
http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Amazon+Coupons

To Google for coupons for any store: *(Name of store) coupons*


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## fuster (Apr 13, 2009)

I agree with PaliBob. You need to HOLD the drill if you are going to spend that kind of money, or buy a smaller one. 

I have a drill kit I bought at Costco for way less, it has lots of torque, which is a variable on these items. I prefer to NOT buy stuff made in china, however (and this thing is made in china). I purchased a second driver made by Bosch, which is the most compact unit they make. Reason? The drill-drivers with the larger batteries last longer between charges, have more power, but your hand tires way faster than these real small ones with the newer technology batteries. (Lithium Ion). But the Costco drill driver kit works for most screw driving into 2 or more inches thick studs or other solid wood. The smaller one works for about 2 or less inches of depth into hard wood. I like having both options for a driver. If you do electrical work on your house like I do, you are using the driver for screws for cover plates, etc. and you only need a little power, and a light tool. 

If you only buy one driver, try it out first. The ergonomics, balance and weight make a big difference if you are putting down a deck or sheetrock where you are going to be driving a lot of screws. My choice is Bosch. Most of their products are made either in Switzerland or USA. Milwaulkee is outsourcing now to china. Bad. If you buy on line, send a message first to ask where the tool is made. 

The impact drivers are good at shearing off the heads of screws if you are driving into studs. Not recommended for general screw driving. I would avoid them for general home owner use.


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## holdenbuilds (Apr 17, 2009)

*Makita is made in China...*

I was disappointed to find out *ALL* Makita cordless drills are "made in china" now. The parts are all manufactured in China, and then assembled in Georgia. I found this out direct from Makita. The batteries may still be made in Japan, but the drill bodies are not. I think I would rather spend the money on German engineering and go with *Festool*. They are by far the best tools around if the price tag fits in your budget.


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## fuster (Apr 13, 2009)

I have only looked at Festool specialty sanders and a vacuum. The pricing is very spendy. So far I have not bought anything from them, but their stuff definitely looks very well made.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

I have a Kit of DeWalt 18V tools w/drill
but for its lighter weight and Li-Ion batteries i have the Panasonic 14.4V set:
http://www.toolup.com/panasonic/eyc...utm_term=panasonic+eyc142b&cawelaid=318020931

I have not seen any Festool drills at a jobsite but that may just be the price.
Tommy and Richard Trethewey use the drills on Ask-This-Old-House.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

I walk thru the tool section at Lowes and HD and it breaks my heart.

I wanted a new lithium Milwaukee or De Walt. None made here at all.

DeWalt is made in Mexico. Milwaukee made in China.

I have cordless tools up the ying yang. Looks like I use them 'til they die.

My next tool will be Bosch.


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## fuster (Apr 13, 2009)

OK, I think I am going to buy a Festool jigsaw. I will find a thread on that topic and post my findings after I get it and use it.


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

I agree with Clover above. I'm just not impressed with the current crop of cordless tools. As long as I can get parts for my old ones, I'll continue to use them.

Rob


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## DIYmakeover (Apr 20, 2009)

Ryan,

I have just completed a full kitchen remodel and I was in the same boat you are in....wondering what to buy. Here's my 2 cents.....after looking at most of the brand names, I bought Makita 18 volt Li-Ion. I bought a kit but please beware there are "great deals" out there that are refurbished. Thats not necessarily a bad thing depending on how you will use them or how you feel about that. I found a great buy on eBay and have used the drill/driver and impact to death in this kitchen. The batteries last a long time, even in the cold garage, and charge back up in a short time. I researched all types of use and also looked at replacement battery price, and that led me to buy Makita. Good luck with a purchase!

Rick.


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## joel v. (Jan 26, 2009)

holdenbuilds said:


> I was disappointed to find out *ALL* Makita cordless drills are "made in china" now. The parts are all manufactured in China, and then assembled in Georgia. I found this out direct from Makita. The batteries may still be made in Japan, but the drill bodies are not. I think I would rather spend the money on German engineering and go with *Festool*. They are by far the best tools around if the price tag fits in your budget.


Not ALL makita acordless tools are made in China. Most, if not all the LXT tools are made in Japan. The light green consumer tools are made in China but will hold up fine for the occasional user.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

joel v. said:


> Not ALL makita acordless tools are made in China. Most, if not all the LXT tools are made in Japan. The light green consumer tools are made in China but will hold up fine for the occasional user.


What homeowner would knowingly buy a tool that wasn't as good as the pros use?

Not any body in my area. I have serviced customer who were so mechaically inept they couldn't swing a hammer.

But you see the tool bench they have more tools than I did. I asked the guy if he thought he'd ever use them, he very honestly answered "NO. I never will. But when I have to hire a contractor I at least get a grudging respect from them because I almost always have a tool they need to finish the job."

May not be able to drive a nail but he's got all the tools.


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

I've got to ask the question: What is wrong with tools made in China?

If you get a very poor quality tool with bad workmanship, it is the fault of the parent company (Ridgid, Hitach, makita, B&D, Dewalt, etc), and not the shop in China. China has access to the same machines and materials as German or US companies, and provided the right quality controls are in place, can produce as well as any other factory around the world.

It is the companies move towards making the product at the cheapest cost that is driving them to China, for the cheap labor (or to Mexico). The cheaper the cost, the more they will sell. They just have to walk that fine line between keeping the price down, and keeping their reputation for a quality tool; a company like Dewalt has to ensure their tools are still durable to maintain their reputation as a 'Professional' tool.

Sure, bring out your corded US made tools from 20 or 30 years ago as proof of Americam quality. They are still going strong, and rightfully too. They were over-engineered, and should last a lifetime. Compared to today's tools they were expensive (who brought complete lines of tools in the past) and heavy.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Highlander said:


> I've got to ask the question: What is wrong with tools made in China?
> 
> If you get a very poor quality tool with bad workmanship, it is the fault of the parent company (Ridgid, Hitach, makita, B&D, Dewalt, etc), and not the shop in China. China has access to the same machines and materials as German or US companies, and provided the right quality controls are in place, can produce as well as any other factory around the world.
> 
> ...


We come from a generation when you bought American to keep Americans working.
Tools went over seas not because labor costs were too high in the US, they did so out of corporate greed. Most for the tool mfg were non union so the corp community can not throw that in the faces of the affected workers.

There is no longer the national conscience of manufacturing here because it keeps our economy it's about "How can we squeeze the last penny out of our production costs".

China has no interest in making products of any quality. Take a look at your test meters. There are several diff names but all the meters come from the same factory, they just come in diff colors and diff features.


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## joseph.cynthia (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure unions didn't help production costs and competition. It really doesn't matter to me where a product is made...what matters is quality compared to price.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

[_*quote=joseph.cynthia;263782]I'm pretty sure unions didn't help production costs and competition*_. It really doesn't matter to me where a product is made...what matters is quality compared to price.[/quote]


Hey 40 watt blub, I said none of those power tool companies were union.
So why are you blaming the the off shore relocation of the tool companies on them?:furious:


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## joseph.cynthia (Mar 21, 2009)

hvaclover said:


> [_*quote=joseph.cynthia;263782]I'm pretty sure unions didn't help production costs and competition*_. It really doesn't matter to me where a product is made...what matters is quality compared to price.



Hey 40 watt blub, I said none of those power tool companies were union.
So why are you blaming the the off shore relocation of the tool companies on them?:furious:[/quote]

Well it doesn't matter if "relocation of tool companies" is due to union or not....what matters is quality compared to price.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

joseph.cynthia said:


> Hey 40 watt blub, I said none of those power tool companies were union.
> So why are you blaming the the off shore relocation of the tool companies on them?:furious:


Well it doesn't matter if "relocation of tool companies" is due to union or not....what matters is quality compared to price.[/quote]

Whatta 'ya mean it doesn't matter? You just slandered a whole bunch of honest working men and women and brushed it off like it was nothing...+ What makes you better than them that you think you can disrespect them like that?


.


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## joseph.cynthia (Mar 21, 2009)

hvaclover said:


> Well it doesn't matter if "relocation of tool companies" is due to union or not....what matters is quality compared to price.


Whatta 'ya mean it doesn't matter? You just slandered a whole bunch of honest working men and women and brushed it off like it was nothing...+ What makes you better than them that you think you can disrespect them like that?


.[/quote]

We are way off topic here. I own Dewalt cordless tools and I am very happy with them whether made here or somewhere else.

Please research "capitalism" and come back so that you can better understand why some companies leave this country. Also, research "service economy" and you will see that the US is now a service economy and not a manufacturing economy. 

Slander...please...I didn't slander anyone.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

joseph.cynthia said:


> Whatta 'ya mean it doesn't matter? You just slandered a whole bunch of honest working men and women and brushed it off like it was nothing...+ What makes you better than them that you think you can disrespect them like that?
> 
> 
> .


We are way off topic here. I own Dewalt cordless tools and I am very happy with them whether made here or somewhere else.

Please research "capitalism" and come back so that you can better understand why some companies leave this country. Also, research "service economy" and you will see that the US is now a service economy and not a manufacturing economy. 

Slander...please...I didn't slander anyone.[/quote]


I don't need to research anything, this is not about capitalism. It's about remarks you made against a class of people whom you obviously have a problem with. 

You just blew it off to cover your butt.


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## frazierdavidson (Jan 31, 2009)

I have the older milwaukee 18v. drill/hammer drill. It's at least five years old and still works like new. I bought new style Li batteries and new charger. I really like the all metal chuck. Only complaint with this drill is it's quite a bit heavier than my 18v porter cable. But as far as quality, I don't think you can beat milwaukee..


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## joseph.cynthia (Mar 21, 2009)

hvaclover said:


> We are way off topic here. I own Dewalt cordless tools and I am very happy with them whether made here or somewhere else.
> 
> Please research "capitalism" and come back so that you can better understand why some companies leave this country. Also, research "service economy" and you will see that the US is now a service economy and not a manufacturing economy.
> 
> Slander...please...I didn't slander anyone.



I don't need to research anything, this is not about capitalism. It's about remarks you made against a class of people whom you obviously have a problem with. 

You just blew it off to cover your butt.[/quote]

Get a life!


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