# Cost to Drywall hang/finish...please read, good explanation



## Firehawk734

My first post in this wonderful forum, and it's a big one, sorry for the rant that's coming 

I have googled it trying to find some recent posts about cost to hang and finish drywall for my basement. I live in the metro Detroit area. I haven't been able to find many recent posts (this year to late last year), and given the state of the economy, especially in MI, I'd think prices would be very competitive.

So far I've gotten 2 quotes, one for 1500 (including materials, hang, mud/sand, ready to prime), and 2800 (including materials, hang, mud/sand, prime included). 

Now I don't get it. Something isn't right. How can one be double the price of the other? The guy who quoted me at 2800 broke it down like this:

Just to hang it: 1450 (ABSURD)
Just to finish it and prime: 1350

I'll admit I'm a newbie to drywall (never done it), but I'm not an idiot. I did some looking around, talked to some people, and never did I hear anyone tell me, or did I read, that HANGING drywall will cost MORE than finishing and priming it. Needless to say I'm getting 2 more estimates.

Anyways, the area I'm needing is 23x33' room with 7 foot ceiling. To estimate, approx 1600 sqft of drywall. Can someone, preferably who knows the Michigan area prices, give me some kind of range I should expect? Needless to say I have 2 more estimates on the way, but wtf?

The company that gave me the estimate of 1500 broke it down as such: 

Hang/tape/mud/sand (walls at .45 per sqft): 403.20
Hang/Tape/Mud/Sand (ceiling at .50 per sqft): 384.00
Materials: 787.80
They discounted me 5% for some special referral deal they had...came out to 1500. Now this seems alot more realistic.

I'm still perturbed by that second estimate. Only thing I can think of is the guy was trying to charge an hourly rate, which I"D NEVER agree to. If i was charging hourly, I'd work slower myself!

So if someone could make some sense out of it for me and give me some idea on what it'd cost to hang and finish drywall in my area, I'd appreciate it.

PS. Home Depot sells 4x8 sheets 1/2 inch for 5.44. I figured jsut over 300 bucks for 60 sheets if I do it myself.


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## Double A

Attention K-Mart shoppers... we have a special on...

OK, I can see it now. You've already talked yourself into going with the $1,500.00 bid. Its clear to see in the way you've written your post. You've spoken with some 'people', gotten two bids, priced 1/2" sheet rock at Home Depot, and you're suddenly an expert on what is and isn't an absurd price to hang drywall.

OK, I can live with that. But, do us a favor, post pictures as the project progresses so the real drywall hangers in here can tell you if you got a good job, as well as a good price.

Oh, and do yourself a favor while you're doing all this research.... ask for a certificate of general liability and workers compensation insurance from each of your bidders... and you might mention something about a business license, use tax permit, state contracting license and any of that other junk people are supposed to have to do business in your area.

Good luck.


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## Firehawk734

Double A said:


> Attention K-Mart shoppers... we have a special on...
> 
> OK, I can see it now. You've already talked yourself into going with the $1,500.00 bid. Its clear to see in the way you've written your post. You've spoken with some 'people', gotten two bids, priced 1/2" sheet rock at Home Depot, and you're suddenly an expert on what is and isn't an absurd price to hang drywall.
> 
> OK, I can live with that. But, do us a favor, post pictures as the project progresses so the real drywall hangers in here can tell you if you got a good job, as well as a good price.
> 
> Oh, and do yourself a favor while you're doing all this research.... ask for a certificate of general liability and workers compensation insurance from each of your bidders... and you might mention something about a business license, use tax permit, state contracting license and any of that other junk people are supposed to have to do business in your area.
> 
> Good luck.


No, I just did some asking around with people who have had drywall work done, and more to hang it doesn't make sense. Looking around, I've seen prices all over the spectrum. but what I have never ran across as of yet is it costing more to hang the drywall than it is to finish it. Does that even make sense? Isn't the time and effort in the finishing of it? Isn't that where the REAL SKILLS ARE? Feel free to clear up any misconceptions. I'm getting at least 2 more bids...

Anyway, I really don't want to go with the 1500 dollar offer because I have a funny feeling about the company, but it's definitely close to what I was expecting this to cost. (given what i've seen, heard, talked to people about, etc).

If you have other ideas, please post them. How much do YOU think a fair estimate is to simply hang drywall? If you think to hang 1600 sq foot of drywall it should cost 1450, then please say it. Maybe I am completely off my rocker...it's possible. Point being is the dude told me he estimated 700 bucks in drywall. I did the math and came up with less than half that AT RETAIL PRICES. Don't need to be an expert to approximate how much drywall is going on a wall.


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## Double A

Well, all drywall is not drywall. In some areas, you cannot use something as thin as 1/2" on the ceilings. In other areas you can. What is allowable by code in your area? Are both companies specifying their work to at a minimum, be code compliant?

As far as drywall hangers go, they really make the life of a finisher harder or easier. The fewer joints there are, the faster the finishing goes. Joints in the right place, and on the long sides of the panels are easier to hide, as this is where the factory edge is. A good hanger that supplies his own material will make sure to use the biggest panel he can get in the room to take advantage of this.

In addition, HD carries 8' and 12' lengths. They don't have all the sizes available that a supplier would. The person that orders the drywall can make or break a finisher's day.

As far as fair estimates go, I'd check it out myself. Getting a schlep to do drywall for minimum wage might make you a water cooler hero at the office, but its not going to get you a good job. Fair is what you and your contractor decide on. 

You're going to decide if the price is fair based on the reputation of the company, their presence in your community, and the service they offer for the price.

Your contractor is going to decide its a fair price based on his expenses and profit goals. 

Where those two expectations meet, you've found fair. Anything else is just someone trying to be a water cooler hero.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

There's not alot we can tell you about how much your 1600 sf of drywall should cost. 

We are not in your region, and do not know what the going rates are for Drywall.

The guy that gave you the low price, may not have all the insurance the other guy has.

There may be additional factors (difficulty level) on your job that can raise the costs over just a sf price.

etc, etc, etc....


There's also a VERY IMPORTANT factor that Many, many people never take into consideration. They only look at the price. Different companies, provide an all-together different type of service: 

Do you want professional service, done quick, done neat, fully insured, problem free, and warranted work? Are you willing to pay a little more for that?

Do you want the lowest price, which _*may*_ mean, lack of professional service, messy work, late starts, problems and complaints, short-cuts, lack of insurance policies, no warrantees?

Bottom line: Get a few more bids,

Do your reference checks.
Make your decsions, NOT just based on pricing.
Get your final contract in writing.

Good Luck


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## gone_fishing

Labor is the reason hanging costs more. I can finish a dry wall job solo. As I discovered when drywalling my 120sq ft laundry room/bathroom I cannot hang dry wall on the ceiling solo. Tried but couldn't do a 1/3 sheet. I did the rest of the room solo but there was only 1 sheet that was close to full size.


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## justdon

Professional hangers often work alone. One told me that there were two of them on opposite ends of this apartment complex,,,each hanging 16' drywall ,,,I think he said,,,alone,,,in a 2 story stairwell ceiling. Said it cost him alot of hair off his head but he got it done,,,tough job it was I guess,,,even if it was 12 ' sheets!!

A diy'er could hang 12' rock with a couple weaker helpers,,,like kids even,,,with the aid of some homemade prop T's. Homemade props can be 2 2X 4's screwed together one ceiling height,,,other 4'. 3 or 4 of those wedged up there makes the rest easy!! depends how many horses in YOUR tank!!

I and my kids did that,,,they got such a kick out of me forgetting a saw once(on top of the ceiling) and had to lower piece a bit to reach it. Or one COULD always go first class and rent one of those drywall jacks!!

As to drywall jobs,,,not ALL drywallers or those who think they are ,,,are created equal! Contractor who did the addition on the house I live in right now OUGHT to be shot,,,for attempting to drywall finish,,,half arsed job at best!! can see every seam and nail head,,,YES its old enough to be NAILED on!! he SHOULD stick to tinning shed roofs,,,better suited!!


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## USP45

let me say that right now I am doing a remodel of a basement for my mother inlaws doctor. He had a man who would do the job for 1/5 of what I am charging. he got what he paid for, why do you think I am there now? We had to tear out everything he done. He was going to install 3/8 plywood on studs 24: OC turned sideways! The drop ceiling lights were just sitting in the hole, no wires to secure them and when I jiggled the drop ceiling, the lights fell. Good thing too because he had BX tied into Romex with wire nuts and they were not even in a junction box! Watch Holms on Homes, cheaper is not always better!


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## Firehawk734

USP45 said:


> let me say that right now I am doing a remodel of a basement for my mother inlaws doctor. He had a man who would do the job for 1/5 of what I am charging. he got what he paid for, why do you think I am there now? We had to tear out everything he done. He was going to install 3/8 plywood on studs 24: OC turned sideways! The drop ceiling lights were just sitting in the hole, no wires to secure them and when I jiggled the drop ceiling, the lights fell. Good thing too because he had BX tied into Romex with wire nuts and they were not even in a junction box! Watch Holms on Homes, cheaper is not always better!


Yeah, I got an eary feeling from the quoter that estimated 1500. But I also think 2800 was nuts. I am guessing, or I should say hoping, that I can get smoething well done for 1800ish...although when I first started looking around I was hoping for 1500. Hell, I have the determination to take a crack at doing it my damn self, but I am super anal about my work and it drives me crazy when I find ANY flaw in my work, no matter how small it is, so it may be better for me to just pay a pro to do it and not deal with that frustration. On the other hand, if I don't like the pro's work, that's another can of worms...


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## Brik

Check out this thread
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=4603&page=2&highlight=cost

Has some recent cost info in it.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Brik said:


> Check out this thread
> http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=4603&page=2&highlight=cost
> 
> Has some recent cost info in it.


The costs you listed in that thread are over 14 months old.

The price of sheetrock and other materials is not the same, as when that post came out, or when the thread was started in 2006. 

Also, if hiring labor for any aspect of the drywall work, those costs WILL vary be region. Drywall labor rates have also changed: becoming much more competative presently.


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## Brik

Sorry - I suppose my basement drywall project is still sort of fresh in my mind. A friend recently used the same company and pricing was the same. Also, around here drywall prices are DOWN compared to when I made that post.

I just bought 1/2" 4x8 sheets for $6.49 each. In that post the suppler my installer used was charging $13 a sheet and Lowes, if I recall correctly, was about $11 a sheet. I'm not sure if the recent (about 2 weeks ago) price I got was a special or a sale or what. I needed some and bought it.

Anyway, all this to say - Prices vary, week to week, year to year, location to location. From what I see - They guys that only do drywall, are good and fast at it and buy materials at commodity prices are going to give you the best price and the best job. 

Bottom line - Get a few quotes.


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## Firehawk734

Thanks guys, so far 3 numbers have come in.

1. 1500
2. 2800
3. 2500 

When I started looking, i was hoping to get something 1500-1800. Anything over 2000 is just not going to sit well with me. Id' rather take a shot at it myself at that point (I think i coudl do it, but I'm so anal and hard on myself I'd probably end up driving myself insane).

I should get another number tonight, and then there are 2 more guys coming out (one tonight, another tomorrow). I am shocked at what you guys are paying for drywall, or did. Right now it's 5.44 here for 1/2" 4x8, and 6.18 for 4x12 sheets 1/2" at Home Depot and Lowes. I was thinking maybe I should go ahead and buy all the material so there's no excuse as to why someone's overcharging the drywall and charging a fee to deliver it in their costing.

Either that or go with the cheapest offer I got, which had all that included lol. Hmm decisions decisions...my wife is the one pressing me to get the estimates. I was about ready to tackle it on my own but she knows I'll drive myself crazy with every little detail (especially since it's visible, i was anal enough with the stud work!)


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## Firehawk734

Just got a 4th estimate at 1800 including prime job.


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## kgphoto

Let us know what you finally decide and why and then let us know how the job progresses and finally turns out. Make sure to check insurance, licensing and references.


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## Firehawk734

I will. I will keep posted. Still have 2 more estimates coming...


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## AtlanticWBConst.

FWIW: 
Based on the SF. We'd price doing it in the $2K Range ($1800 to $2200). Dependant on the details (Number of corners, soffits, more difficult areas).


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## Firehawk734

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> FWIW:
> Based on the SF. We'd price doing it in the $2K Range ($1800 to $2200). Dependant on the details (Number of corners, soffits, more difficult areas).


Here's the offers I got (6 estimates)

1. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800
2. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800 (was 2900 but he matched my best offer, how you go from 2900 down to 1800 don't know, but I don't trust him)
3. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2500
4. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2700 (this guy not licensed or insured)
5. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2800
6. drywall hang/finish w/primer $3300 not including materials (this guy was a joke. Came in, looked around, didn't even measure, told me he'd let me know. Calls me and says 3300 for labor only. I just hung up. The heck was that? 5 of the 6 are licensed and insured.

I checked references with number 1 and everybody said the same, "can't beat their pricing, their work is awesome, they clean up, and they ensure you are happy with what they're doing every step of the way"...

So I was going to need carpeting anyways, and the first offer there does carpeting too, so going to see if I can get an even better deal by having it all done through them.

When I started getting offers, I was hoping to pay no more than 2k for this job, so I'm happy, as long as the work is professional looking. We'll see. I will post up some before/after pics.


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## Wood Butcher

Firehawk734 said:


> Here's the offers I got (6 estimates)
> 
> 1. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800
> 2. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800 (was 2900 but he matched my best offer, how you go from 2900 down to 1800 don't know, but I don't trust him)
> 3. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2500
> 4. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2700 (this guy not licensed or insured)
> 5. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2800
> 6. drywall hang/finish w/primer $3300 not including materials (this guy was a joke. Came in, looked around, didn't even measure, told me he'd let me know. Calls me and says 3300 for labor only. I just hung up. The heck was that? 5 of the 6 are licensed and insured..


Maybe after spending a little time with you, # 6 realized just how anal you are ( your words ) and figured if he quoted any less he would be losing money by job end. he's probably the smartest of the bunch!!


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## Firehawk734

Wood Butcher said:


> Maybe after spending a little time with you, # 6 realized just how anal you are ( your words ) and figured if he quoted any less he would be losing money by job end. he's probably the smartest of the bunch!!


Probably...of course if he can't find his own flaws without me having to find them first, he probably shouldn't be in the business in the first place...


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## Wood Butcher

Firehawk734 said:


> Here's the offers I got (6 estimates)
> 
> 1. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800
> 2. drywall hang/finish w/primer $1800 (was 2900 but he matched my best offer, how you go from 2900 down to 1800 don't know, but I don't trust him)
> 3. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2500
> 4. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2700 (this guy not licensed or insured)
> 5. drywall hang/finish w/primer $2800
> 6. drywall hang/finish w/primer $3300 not including materials .


 
I think it's funny that you ended up choosing the low bidder who was doing the job for the price "you think it should be" rather than one of the guys whose prices were all within about 10% difference from each other. Most people & companies will "disqualify" the low bid when there is such a large spread between the low bidder and the second lowest bidder. 

Dosen't it make you wonder why (or how) he can do the job for *25% OR MORE* lower than everyone else who gave you a price?

You laughed at #6 and called him a joke for being so much higher, but you are giving the job to #1 who was about the same percentage lower than everyone else.

I hope it works out for you, but after reading your posts through this whole thread I think you are setting yourself up for dissapointment


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## Firehawk734

My buddy had someone do his whole A-frame for 3000 including mateials, which was 3200sqft of drywall, and priming. It looks great. Was he lucky? Perhaps. 

Having said that, references checked out with #1. What more can I do? Pay someone more simply because the price seems too low? I mean, I think I'd be just as concerned, if not more, if I was hiring the highest bidder, wouldn't you? Just because they are charging more or are in the middle of the pack, that's supposed to squelch my concerns? Besides, most contractors want half up fromt and half after the job right? The job doesn't look right, the contractor doesn't get paid. 

I mean I see your points, and i've thought about all of them most definitely, and I am definitely concerned. And yes, I didn't expect to pay over 2000 for this job, otherwise I was taking it on myself. That was my cutoff. It's how I assessed my time. I felt that under 2000 bucks was not worth my effort to attempt the drywall project. 

But again, I'd be just as if not more concerned if I was paying $3,000 for the job. 

And yeah, I think it's a joke that the guy walked in, DIDN'T BOTHER MEASURING, and then asked for 1200+ more than my highest estimate at the time. Yes I think that's a joke. 

And I'm also in one of the worst economical places in the country right now (Michigan) where I'm trying to take advantage of the situation by getting a lower estimate. I don't have the money to pay out extra simply because that's what the average is. Now I understand what you are saying, it's best to play the numbers and pick someone in the middle to lower your risk. But again, I called references, I checked them out as best I could. What more can I do? It's a gamble even if I hired someone for 10 grand to come in here.

If it turns out the job looks like crap by the end, then I guess i get to eat crow. But it could turn out like crap by one of the middle bidders, too.

Edit: One thing I did forget to mention, but just now thought of, was initially #1 bidded 1500 just to drywall it and sand, then I asked them to quote me on priming it as well (because I loved the price), in which case they added like 628 to it or something, so the initial total bid from them was like 2128 or something. Then I asked them to requote if I got everything done together and match my other lowest bid of 1800 and they did.


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## Firehawk734

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> FWIW:
> Based on the SF. We'd price doing it in the $2K Range ($1800 to $2200). Dependant on the details (Number of corners, soffits, more difficult areas).


By the way, if I had this contractor (quoted) come in and do my house for 2,000, does that mean he's a sh*tty contractor? Does that mean he does crappy work? It works out to around 35-45$ a board (4x8), which I read was pretty common. The 'average' of my estimates was up in the 55-60$ area...which I've also read is common, depending where it is being done at. And I read that doing smaller jobs means a higher price generally...


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## Wood Butcher

It's great to check references, but highly overrated IMO

Anyone who is not a complete idiot will only give you names of the people that they know were happy with the work. The last time you changed jobs did you list your ex wife's mother or your parole officer as a character reference? for all you know the people you called are the home or cell numbers of his employees!!

Go down to the county clerks office and see if there are any recent small claims cases against this guy, i bet those names weren't on his list of references.

As for the guy who didn't measure the room, 
if your room is pretty straight forward, you don't have to be Rainman to be able to tell how many sheets you'll need just by looking around ( or counting studs if they are exposed) , and even if your off 20% it's not a lot of $$ worth of material

Not trying to scare you or be an SOB, but i am always interested in understanding why people who demand the best think it can be done by the low bidder. I guess it's the same reason Depot and Lowes are filled every Saturday morning with their legions of dissatisfied, but loyal customers.....


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## Firehawk734

I don't mind your comments at all, and I thank you for being concerned and bringing up points and things to think about. I found this guy online through a site like SafeQuote that is supposed to screen their contractors, and also have reviews posted. I don't think the contractor can take down a review about them being posted on a site they belong to such as this...but I suppose they could be selective in what they post. I guess the best thing would be to check the clerrk's office...

But for the record, I had another offer that matched the price ...

About that highest bidder, wouldn't be smart to measure everything? The other 5 did. Wouldn't you want to be sure you're not over or underquoting your customer by getting as exact as you can with your numbers? If he doesn't even take the time to measure it out and give me as accurate of an estimate as he can, what would you expect his mudding job will look like?


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## USP45

measure everything?? Got that right, not so much for over bidding, but more so for UNDER bidding!


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Let us know how the project moves along (not just the drywall stuff).

Good Luck.


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## Firehawk734

I'd post some pics of how the basement is now but my pics are over 1MB and I need to shrink them down significantly.


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## kgphoto

Throwing out the 33 and the one unlicensed you have 4 bids with two at 20% under and two at 20% over the average price of 2200. NONE at the average price. 

If the first is licensed and insured and has good references why would you not try him. Definitely check with the License bureau and the BBB or local small claims. I think I understood you to say he came from a referral site, so he is probably new, eager and pretty good. He may be slightly under pricing the work, or maybe just has lower overhead. Remember it is not what someone else charges, but what you need to make a living that sets your price.

I say try him and make sure you spell out what is and is not included and inspect in the contract along with the payment schedule, and the start and completion dates. That way they don't string the job out and try to fill in with better paying work.

Have him break it out for you in hang time, tape time and primer time, just rough so you can make sure he is on schedule and then let him go to it.

Three days hang, three days tape, two days prime, = 1 week, in my guess and one of those prime days is a fudge day.


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## Firehawk734

Thanks Mr. Photo, a mighty helpful response. I'm meeting with him tomorrow to go over all of the details. Remember that originally he was at 2200 or so then he matched the other 1800 bid to get the business. So I will tread softly and make sure everything is written and get a decent timeline drawn out. I don't mind if he takes a bit longer just as long as he gets the job done correctly.


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## tomatolater

*If you are looking for something cheaper*

We managed to save on our dry wall costs by finding someone willing to work with us. We bought and had all of the supplies delivered after he told us what we would need. He even recommended a good contractor sales place. We offered to be an extra set of hands on the long pieces of drywall and did most of the sanding and all of the clean-up ourselves. (He showed us how to sand and came back to touch up anything we missed.) Before hand we had installed all of our own insulation and afterwards we did the priming and painting. If you are still balking at high costs it may be worth asking around about helping with the job. Also ask about things such as if they will move/cover your furniture, if they clean everything up, and if they dry or wet sand. We lucked out with a great drywaller who taught us a lot and did some exceptional work. We have a 20ft wall with no windows or doors in our living room and even though we put satin paint on it we can't see a single seem. From what I've seen not every company/individual can pull something like that off.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

tomatolater said:


> ..... If you are still balking at high costs it may be worth asking around about helping with the job.


Honestly, the majority of contractors, let alone drywallers, will refuse such an offer. The biggest problem being liability issues. 



tomatolater said:


> ....Also ask about things such as if they will move/cover your furniture, if they clean everything up, and if they dry or wet sand.


Most will, again, refuse to do so. 
We will do so, but at an extra charge. We will do a "general Cleaning", but since we are a "construction company" (and not a cleaning company) - that cleaning is limited. We offer detailed cleaning, at an extra charge.



tomatolater said:


> ..... We lucked out with a great drywaller who taught us a lot and did some exceptional work.


Yes you did. You found one in a million.



tomatolater said:


> ..... We have a 20ft wall with no windows or doors in our living room and even though we put satin paint on it we can't see a single seem. From what I've seen not every company/individual can pull something like that off.


Problem is that there are alot of people in the industry that will do drywall for 6 months to a year, and go out and start advertising that they are a drywall contractor. The thing is, it takes years, and years of practice, mistakes, and understanding of the trade, to be able to do it properly and consistently smooth and "seamless" (hanging and taping). If anyone hires a drywall contractor, the first thing to look into is: How long they have been in the trade. Personally, I think it takes at least 5 years fulltime to be skilled, 10 years to be a pro/expert at every phase, and to know how to deal with every issue/situation, that may arise.

Example: We hired a young kid about 5 years ago, as a sheetrock hanger. He was, and still is, the most phenominal hanger, I , or anyone else has ever seen. When he is done, the seams are so tight, you couldn't fit a dime between them. It's so perfect, that it looks like a machine put it up. Once, he and 3 workers hung 42 sheets in a basement remodel in 2 hours. The problem was, that when he came to us, he'd only been doing new construction for 3 years fulltime. We stuck him in some remodeling jobs in older homes (off square, bowed ceilings, off-plumb walls, etc)... and he was lost.


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## CowboyAndy

Firehawk, keep this in mind too. It's not just the quality fo the drywall hanging, but more importantly its the quality of the mud/tape. IF it looks bad, it will ALWAYS look bad. You will start noticing the spots that arent so great, and EVERYTIME you walk by you will stare at them!!!

When my brother in law was building his house, he went with the lowest bidder without even balking. Tuened out HORRIBLE!! MY father in law went with a more expensive company, and the results are outstanding. The guy my brother in law was fully insured, great references, etc. Just giving an example of the difference in quality...


Look at it this way. Would you take your kids to a certain doctor just because he was a bit cheaper than everyone else?


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## Firehawk734

CowboyAndy said:


> Firehawk, keep this in mind too. It's not just the quality fo the drywall hanging, but more importantly its the quality of the mud/tape. IF it looks bad, it will ALWAYS look bad. You will start noticing the spots that arent so great, and EVERYTIME you walk by you will stare at them!!!
> 
> When my brother in law was building his house, he went with the lowest bidder without even balking. Tuened out HORRIBLE!! MY father in law went with a more expensive company, and the results are outstanding. The guy my brother in law was fully insured, great references, etc. Just giving an example of the difference in quality...
> 
> 
> Look at it this way. Would you take your kids to a certain doctor just because he was a bit cheaper than everyone else?


No but then again I have insurance for that .

I hear what you are saying. My buddy told me " well, if they don't do a great job on a couple areas, we can always fix it" since he's an experienced builder himself. So I'm sorta covered anyways. But I mean, yeah, I know what you are saying. The nice thing is I do not have to pay the last half of what I owe until I inspect everything and am 100% happy with it. I guess that is the ace in the hole...so to speak.


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## ebbtideinteriors

*Your origional quote*

As a self employed drywall hanger/finisher (yes guys, we are still out there) I personally run a crew of 2. Myself and my apprentice. As the other gentlemen mentioned that some drywall hangers work alone is assinine. You will be retired with a bad back before you are actually retirement age. I use myself and one other guy, and we hang up to 16 foot sheets of 5/8" with just a little sweat. (Granted he more so than I but I have been doing it a while). 

i wanted to make a point on the pricing. The gentleman that had quoted you $1500 could possibly have a house payment due, could be flat broke and needing work etc.....dont just trust your gut, ask him for references and for pictures. A website address would be great too. Even though my website only had my email address and company logo on it, at least I have gotten it that far. The guys that are quoting you in the higher price range could very possibly be quoting at that because a.) they want YOU to make them competitive (I recently lost a bit of $2000 for a basement to a guy that quoted $1400. He offers a 1 year warranty I offer 5-oh and not to mention, I have repaired his work on 3 other jobs) b.) they are too busy to say "hey, I dont want this job-it is a basement afterall" c.) The big dogs can charge what they want, a lot of rock hangers and finishers are known within the community. or d.) hes just plain nuts

The fella that had mentioned to ask about insurance, license, etc.. is absolutely right. If they are not insured absolutely DO NOT HIRE THEM. If they fall guess who pays for it. If they hurt their back, guess who pays for it, if they cut their finger off, guess who pays for it? YOU yep thats right.

Anyhow, in response to your pricing questions, in my area, I actually charge in the ball park of $1.35-$1.50 psf to hang and finish. This includes my pricing for labor AND materials....the materials I use are a bit higher quality, but people know that and again I offer a higher warranty than the other guys. I may have a small company compared to my competition, but I am halfway decently respected because I am not afraid to bid against them and get in there. 

If someone mentions that my price doesnt fit into their budget, it is absolutely not set in stone. I have a lowest possible price that I will work for and a cap on the most I will charge. I absolutely do NOT charge George Jetson any different than George Jefferson tho. 

That being said, your supply house in the area may charge a delivery fee, also if you purchase the materials at Home Depot or Lowes, be prepaired to pay a delivery fee as well, but also around $3.00 a sheet for them to haul it to your basement. Or you could go the cheapskate rout and deliver it yourself. And lug ALLLLLLLLLLL that board with your drinking buddies.

The choice is up to you. My suggestion however is this. If you do decide to hang the drywall yourself and decide to hire in someone to finish, dont be surprised at the cost of their finishing. Finishers hate finishing other peoples hangs. I hang my board because I know how I am going to finish it.

Thanks and if you need anything else, let me know.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

ebbtideinteriors said:


> ....the materials I use are a bit higher quality,....


I've got to ask this question: 

What .....sheetrock, joint compound, paper-tape, corner bead, hot mud, or screws, is it, that you use......which you consider better (higher quality) than others?


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## Sir MixAlot

You have received alot of good advice so far. So I will just give you some food for thought. *"The bitterness of a poor job, far outlast's the sweetness of a cheap price!"







*

Good Luck! And may the* "best "* drywall guy get the job.*:yes:*


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## Firehawk734

Well I may eat a little crow, but here's what happened:

I went with the guy I planned to go with. The contract was for drywall hang and finish walls/ceiling, prime 1 coat, (I paint), then they install padding/carpet. 2900. The carpet was berber. The square footage of the drywall hung was ~1600 sq foot including ceiling. I think ti was more like 1700-1750 with soffits, etc. Now keep in mind, I know some things about drywall, but I'm no pro and I only know what I know from asking around and looking it up online.

Anyways, They told me 2 weeks to complete the project. I am in week 6 now and they never finished. Here's the story:

Day 1 and 2 they had a crew of 3 guys hanging. They didn't get it done. In fact, they got the ceiling about 3/4 hung in 2 9-hour days. They then began to go to 4-5 hour days and it took nearly 2 weeks to complete just hanging the drywall. The mudder started in there around that time and he was going around mudding seams while another guy was installing corner bead (taking forever as well, and some of it was crooked, in fact 2 of the corners I made them redo completely).
My staircase runs along the basement block wall so I only have the 1 1/2 inches of space to work with so I decided to liquid nail some furring strips to hang drywall on along that wall. Well these guys hung 1/2 drywall there with 1 5/8" screws, pulled some of the studs away from the wall, and wondered why my wall was bowing. They told me they didn't hit the concrete wall LOL, but when you do the math, 5/8 furring + 1/2 drywall is 1 1/8". You're way too long with your screws. SO anyways I have a little bulge from where the strip came off the wall and they filled back there again with a ton of glue. I can live with that I guess, if it bothers me i'll redo it eventually. 

The mud guy was coming at 4pm and working until 8pm everyday, and was on time for the first few days, then began arriving 1-2 hours late, and one day never even showed. I called owner b*tching and they were apologetic of course. The mudder had an attitude. I questioned why one of the vertical corner beads was rounded on the edge (literally, very badly, no way you could mud and make that look good which I told him) and he argued with me and told me to let him work on it with mud and it'd look ok. So a week and a half goes by and it still looks like sh*t. I had the owner out, told him i wanted it torn out and redone. THEN it looked good after a straight piece was put in. 

There are two bulges at seams in 2 locations in the walls. They blamed my stud job but because I am so maticulous, there's no way my studding was that far out that either they couldn't mud it enough to make the bulge disappear, or couldn't hang the drywall well enough to not show a bulge. I think they improperly butted the seam there, but what do I know? The cuts around the electrical outlets were way too big and I was argued with about that. I have standard outlet boxes installed in there and I showed them a standard wall plate and how much there is a hole around not being covered up. They said "oh you wouldn't be able to use this size plate anyways". I said "HuH? How did builders do it upstairs then because that's the same crap i have up there?"

So this went on for 5 weeks until they FINALLY wrapped it up. When their primer came in, he sprayed over my recessed light bulbs and electrical plugs, cable lines, phone jacks, etc. F'n ridiculous. When i brought up how that happened, they said "well normally there's nothing in the outlets when we prime". I said "you couldn't cut a piece of cardboard and block it when you were spraying? Give me a break".

I have this all documented in email as well. The carpet was the final straw. So early week 5, the carpet guys come out and they tack strip/pad the basement. One of the fellows goes and gets the carpet that I wanted. They get the WRONG carpet. And it's not their fault, it's the owner's fault. She gave them the wrong carpet, yet argued with me for 10 minutes on the phone that that's what I wanted. There's no way I woulda picked that carpet as I have 2 black labs and wouldn't pick something that'd show dog hair. At any rate, she said she'd get me the right carpet. Well all week goes by, hear nothing. Monday rolls around and I email them. They email me this long apologetic letter and give me the choice to opt out of the contract and not pay any more than I paid up front (which I paid half).

So essentially I got the drywall hung/mudded, primed, padding and tack strips for 1450 bucks. And they had to lose a ton of money on my job as they were 1 hour or so away from me, so all that gas over 5 weeks time adds up.

So now I bought my own carpet and am having an installer with 44 years experience and highly recommended to come in and put it in this weekend so I can get my trim hung.

So I know some of you tried to tell me not to take a lower bid (keep in mind I talked this guy down, he wasn't the lowest to start...he was close to the average). I wonder if I would have had the same problems with someone even if i paid double. It's hard to find good help out there.

So here's all of the flaws that I can count

Before painting: 
2 bulges in the walls not TOO terrible, but I know they are there and it bugs me.
Outlet holes were cut too big, they mudded the holes up but I may still have to use jumbo size plates which I don't think look the best and i'm a little pissed about
I haev to clean the coax cables that have spray paint on them, and replace some bulbs (or take a razor blade to them)
I had to pull out all my electrical plugs (19 of them) and replace them
Corner bead is decent, but not real sharp like I'd expect a professional can do.
A couple screw holes were completely missed.
They didn't leave a gap in the drywall at the floor. This pissed me off as I requested this before they even installed the drywall, and it wasn't done. So I made them go around the bottom and cut a gap out. Who installs drywall with no gap at the floor, especially on concrete?
When they were done mudding, they cleaned the floor with compound all over it by bringing a hose down there and spraying it (mud dissolves in water). I was not home when they did this, but I came home at 10:30pm that night only to find puddles everywhere and since one of the walls I put up is over a dip in the floor, there was a big puddle with the drywall soaking right in it. I got on the phone screaming pissed about that. THIS IS WHY YOU DONT DRYWALL ALL THE WAY TO THE FLOOR. They also managed to get some water on the priming by the stairs which caused the primer to bubble up, so that was redone.

After painting:
2 seams are showing after semi gloss has been applied. Seams are in ceiling and really only noticeable at an angle when light reflects off them. I didn't see them prior to painting. 

So there's some flaws with the drywall, and i'm hoping I wont notice after all my stuff is moved down there. It bugs me, but if I am still bothered by it in a year, I'll redo the flawed areas.

When my new carpet installer came to look at the basement, he goes, "nice padding down and they did a good job installing the tack strips, but they did a terrible job on the padding installation". LOL. Well at least that can be fixed right now. he said had they laid the carpet, the seam woudl have separated in a short time. I would have been PISSED at that point.

So anyways, I was able to get all of my work done for 1450 + 372 bucks carpet installation + 750 for the carpet material. I'm still coming out ahead of what I was going to spend at 2900, with better carpet and a carpet installer that knows WTF he's doing.

To sum it up, this is why I would have rather done the job myself. I think even though I'm new, I would not have given up until it looked great, whether I had to buy some beer for my knowledgable buddies to help me, or read up on it, or just practice until I got it to look right. I kept my patience until about week 4, and then started raising hell about what was taking so damn long. The first couple weeks I even provided lunch on most of the days for them, like pizza, sloppy joes, burgers, etc to keep them happy and to hopefully do a better job. I can't imagine many residents do this for their contractors.

They ended up firing their mud guy because he refused to touch his work up, saying I was being too picky, when it was the owner that came out and circled the flaws around the basement. I asked him what kind of finisher doesn't pay attention to details? He laughed at me, and that's when I told him to just go and I'd call the boss. The owner and sales lady were very friendly and tried to please me, but I just don't think they possess the skills to do jobs properly. I feel funny saying that because who am I? I haven't been building homes or something, but the fundamentals about hanging drywall that you can read about or ask people about, they didn't know.

I do have a question for all those drywallers out there. What is considered a great job? Would a great drywall job be perfectly straight cornerbead, zero nicks in the drywall, everything perfectly straight? Or what? Where is the line between being maticulous and being obsessive?


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## ebbtideinteriors

*response*



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> I've got to ask this question:
> 
> What .....sheetrock, joint compound, paper-tape, corner bead, hot mud, or screws, is it, that you use......which you consider better (higher quality) than others?


Well first let me start out by saying this:
drywall=paperless or 1/2-5/8" usg board
compound-I dont EVER water down my compound unless I am using my auto taper-most finishers I have met along the way water their compound down. It reduces the overall integrity of the compound.
I dont use mesh EVER unless it is a hole that I am patching, or a severe gap in which I use 20 min durabond
I use quality employees whom which use grabber brand screws. Sometimes I nail the perimiter, but typically it is screws.
I use Mid Flex in all of my inside corners.
I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN DURABOND TO INSTALL MY BEAD!!! Meaning no nails, no screws which results in no call backs from buckles, rust etc....and I specifically use vinyl unless metal is necessity (i wrap doorways for closets with aluminum and plant shelves, but knee walls, window surrounds etc...I only use vinyl)
I use the nocoat brand flexible corners for any radius that I install. I never cut the no coat to make the angle.
I use Columbia tapers.
I use gold bond paper tape.
I only use usg compound-I hate the lite blue 
I use specifically Tuff Tex texture, I dont like to texture with compound, there is a reason it is compound.

I am not boasting nor bragging, nor am I attempting to compare myself with others, I use the midflex instead of no-coat and I use wide flex as well. There is also more narrow products.

EVERYONE uses no coat, but I have found expecially recently, that when I use the mid flex instead of the no coat, I have no tape pulls. If you are unsure of what the "flex" line is, straight line has a great website, they will show you there. I like the paper edge and you still only need to skim it just like no coat, but it takes less compound to install.

I use durabond for my 1st 2 coats of screw fills. I alway do 3 coats on screws, I bed, skim all of my joints as well. 3 coats is my method on that as well.

I know there are a lot of methods, but I am a student of the old school. I use marshalltown comfort grip blusteel knives, I use cobalt serrated drywall blades. I have marshalltown skywalker 2 stilts.

Not that any of this has to do with what the gentleman has posted, but around here most of the people use the thin paper tapes, or mesh, they thin their compounds, they use compound to spray their textures and they use either aluminum bead for radius or they use the metal "curveflex".

Thanks for the inquiry, if you would like to inquire more about my stuff, let me know, I will gladly give you my email address.


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## ebbtideinteriors

*A great job is*

A great job is something that the homeowner can sit back and look at, and say "wow that looks great" You can always tell a hanger/finisher that takes great pride in their work, when they ask the homeowners input on the project. The true tale of the tape comes when the paint is on the wall. In my technique painting I have learned that a poor hang leads to a poor finish leads to a poor faux. I never ask for final pay until the customer has given their consent. I think that most drywallers will agree that if the drywall doesnt tell the story of whats behind it, then it is a good job. Nicks are common in drywall, but not until after the drywaller has been long gone. Meaning from the dog, or moving furniture etc. Also you should never see your seams nor should you ever see screw heads.

A great job is when it doesnt matter what type of paint you put on the wall, whether it be satin, semi or high gloss, a suede or a glaze, it looks good no matter what. The primer can tell the whole story. I like to prime my jobs myself that way if there are any imperfections, I can touch them up right away and thus reducing call backs. However, there is an occasion when something gets overlooked, but you should never feel guilty about calling on something that is obvious. Never "settle" always get what you expect. Call me stupid or whatever, but as the saying goes "if mama ain't happy, ain't no one happy"

Oh and another quick tip, you say that your ceiling seams are noticeable when the light hits it just right-and that you have semi gloss on your ceiling, heres a tip, either paint the ceiling with a flat white paint, or take some trisodium phosphate <sp?> and wash the ceiling down. Flat paint is what I typically recommend for ceilings because there is less glare expecially in poker/entertainment rooms





I do have a question for all those drywallers out there. What is considered a great job? Would a great drywall job be perfectly straight cornerbead, zero nicks in the drywall, everything perfectly straight? Or what? Where is the line between being maticulous and being obsessive?[/quote]


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Firehawk, Sorry to say this, but you hired a bunch of hacks. It does not take the length of time described to do a job like that. I know you realize that too. We would have that easily done in one week. The carpet in to 2 days. We would use all our own workers. Sorry to hear of your experience.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

ebbtideinteriors said:


> Well first let me start out by saying this:
> drywall=paperless or 1/2-5/8" usg board
> compound-I dont EVER water down my compound unless I am using my auto taper-most finishers I have met along the way water their compound down. It reduces the overall integrity of the compound.
> I dont use mesh EVER unless it is a hole that I am patching, or a severe gap in which I use 20 min durabond
> I use quality employees whom which use grabber brand screws. Sometimes I nail the perimiter, but typically it is screws.
> I use Mid Flex in all of my inside corners.
> I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN DURABOND TO INSTALL MY BEAD!!! Meaning no nails, no screws which results in no call backs from buckles, rust etc....and I specifically use vinyl unless metal is necessity (i wrap doorways for closets with aluminum and plant shelves, but knee walls, window surrounds etc...I only use vinyl)
> I use the nocoat brand flexible corners for any radius that I install. I never cut the no coat to make the angle.
> I use Columbia tapers.
> I use gold bond paper tape.
> I only use usg compound-I hate the lite blue
> I use specifically Tuff Tex texture, I dont like to texture with compound, there is a reason it is compound.
> 
> I am not boasting nor bragging, nor am I attempting to compare myself with others, I use the midflex instead of no-coat and I use wide flex as well. There is also more narrow products.
> 
> EVERYONE uses no coat, but I have found expecially recently, that when I use the mid flex instead of the no coat, I have no tape pulls. If you are unsure of what the "flex" line is, straight line has a great website, they will show you there. I like the paper edge and you still only need to skim it just like no coat, but it takes less compound to install.
> 
> I use durabond for my 1st 2 coats of screw fills. I alway do 3 coats on screws, I bed, skim all of my joints as well. 3 coats is my method on that as well.
> 
> I know there are a lot of methods, but I am a student of the old school. I use marshalltown comfort grip blusteel knives, I use cobalt serrated drywall blades. I have marshalltown skywalker 2 stilts.
> 
> Not that any of this has to do with what the gentleman has posted, but around here most of the people use the thin paper tapes, or mesh, they thin their compounds, they use compound to spray their textures and they use either aluminum bead for radius or they use the metal "curveflex".
> 
> Thanks for the inquiry, if you would like to inquire more about my stuff, let me know, I will gladly give you my email address.


FWIW: We do everything you describe, and use all the materials you listed. We've never viewed it as using _"higher quality_" materials, we've always just viewed it as: using the _"right materials", _and, doing the job the_ "right way"_ to create the "_best finish_". 

I am not saying that your viewpoint is wrong or incorrect. It's just different to me. 
I've been in the construction industry all my life, and also in the Drywall business for 25 years. I've just never heard anyone describe it as using "higher quality" drywall materials. We usually view it, and describe it as, using the "right materials", or installing the materials that "should be used"...

(In the construction industry, higher quality materials are usually identified, labeled or have a definite distinction from others. Examples: #1 cedar shakes vs all other cedar shakes, select pine vs. knotted pine, red oak vs white oak, Windsor One vs other PP trim, ss nails over electro-galv, etc... In those cases, there are distinct, labeled, identified, and understood quality differences)

Personally, I still choose to view certain drywall materials as using the "right materials" for the "specific applications", to create the "best required finish".

Again, I am not saying you viewpoint is wrong. We are both saying the same thing, but we each label (view) it differently.

Cheers.


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## Firehawk734

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Firehawk, Sorry to say this, but you hired a bunch of hacks. It does not take the length of time described to do a job like that. I know you realize that too. We would have that easily done in one week. The carpet in to 2 days. We would use all our own workers. Sorry to hear of your experience.


My response is to your post below my last one.

If you rely on the average homeowner, who most likely is contracting it out becasue they know NOTHING about what you'll be doing, why would you rely on an untrained eye? I think the fact taht I know things is what sucks. It takes more to impress me than the average homeowner just paying to have something done they know nothing about. Follow me? For instance, my mother went down to the basement after it was painted and said "wow this looks excellent". I went down there and saw every flaw. Am I an expert at drywall? Definitely not, but I do know what I'm looking for. If i wanted a flawed job, I would have done the damn job myself. I hired 'professionals' expecting a professional job. At any rate, I made out because I had alot of work done for very very cheap, including free pad and tack strips installed. Can't argue with that really. 

With that being said, yes I hired hacks. Yes there's a few seams. If it bothers me after my carpet is in, my pinball machines, pool table, computer, TV are down there, I'm redoing it myself. When i started complaining about the length of time to finish, they said "finishing drywall is one of the longest processes in new construction". Did I believe them? No. I have heard of people hiring good crews that can completely hang/drywall full size homes in 3-4 days. I had a fricken 760sqft basement to hang/finish. Come on.

The only thing that doesn't keep me from going out of my mind is this: Had I paid double that, I could have ended up with the same crap. Alot of times it doesn't matter what you pay. If you go with the cheapest bidder, yes your chances are higher of getting hacks, but just because someone wants to charge double or whatever doesn't mean the job will be done any better.

And with that being said, I digress. Good thing it's a basement is all I can say. I would have requested it to be completely redone had it been a living room or bedroom they did.


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## ebbtideinteriors

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> FWIW: We do everything you describe, and use all the materials you listed. We've never viewed it as using _"higher quality_" materials, we've always just viewed it as: using the _"right materials", _and, doing the job the_ "right way"_ to create the "_best finish_".
> 
> I am not saying that your viewpoint is wrong or incorrect. It's just different to me.
> I've been in the construction industry all my life, and also in the Drywall business for 25 years. I've just never heard anyone describe it as using "higher quality" drywall materials. We usually view it, and describe it as, using the "right materials", or installing the materials that "should be used"...
> 
> (In the construction industry, higher quality materials are usually identified, labeled or have a definite distinction from others. Examples: #1 cedar shakes vs all other cedar shakes, select pine vs. knotted pine, red oak vs white oak, Windsor One vs other PP trim, ss nails over electro-galv, etc... In those cases, there are distinct, labeled, identified, and understood quality differences)
> 
> Personally, I still choose to view certain drywall materials as using the "right materials" for the "specific applications", to create the "best required finish".
> 
> Again, I am not saying you viewpoint is wrong. We are both saying the same thing, but we each label (view) it differently.
> 
> Cheers.


i totally understand where you are coming from. I am not sure where you are located, and the materials I purchase are from the supply house as with you, however, if you purchase a box of usg at a supply house, it is not the same as you would get at home depot. many would argue this, however, I know the retail side of drywall and building materials as well as the labor/install and sales side of it. you do not get the same quality supplies that you would from a supply house-typically. try a little test sometime. purchase a box from hd and a box from your supply house (or bucket whichever you prefer) and drop them for your finishers, i will almost guarantee that your mud will yellow from hd or will off color as it dries. they use different components in their product-expecially in taping compound. you will also get more air pocks in the hd mud. otherwise i am just crazy and i dont know what i am talking about. 

also to reiterate the difference in my opinion in "quality" i dont feel that the lite blue brand of compound is a good brand at all, yet i see a lot of finishers use it in their tapers, i just have had bad experiences with it. anyway, i am glad that i am not crazy and most drywallers share the same opinions that i do on the materials. do you guys use the mid flex? i am the only one in kalamazoo to use it. everyone else still uses no coat. this is coming straight from the manager at my supply house. 
thanks again
@gmail.com


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## orson

I am currently doing 2 bathroom remodels in the same house. The first drywall company charged me 650 bucks to hang and finish an 8x10 bathroom(I didn't shop price but was giving a new and young company a chance). After they were done I paid another guy 90 bucks to do another coat to try to fix it. After that I sanded it and did one more coat myself.
It still has issues which I can't really correct.(I spent hours shimming the framing perfect at critical areas, but they still have humps and curves in them)


On the next bathroom which is about the same size I am happily paying $1150 to a guy whose work I have seen and it is top notch. 

You get what you pay for.


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## Firehawk734

orson said:


> I am currently doing 2 bathroom remodels in the same house. The first drywall company charged me 650 bucks to hang and finish an 8x10 bathroom(I didn't shop price but was giving a new and young company a chance). After they were done I paid another guy 90 bucks to do another coat to try to fix it. After that I sanded it and did one more coat myself.
> It still has issues which I can't really correct.(I spent hours shimming the framing perfect at critical areas, but they still have humps and curves in them)
> 
> 
> On the next bathroom which is about the same size I am happily paying $1150 to a guy whose work I have seen and it is top notch.
> 
> You get what you pay for.


I don't even think you get what you pay for at times. I think the good workers will charge higher prices, but a high price doesn't mean good work either. 

I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with the same crap. I think new companies just don't hvae that experience and definitely wont' take the proper time to work slower to do it right (since less experience means you need to take more time to get it right).


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Firehawk734 said:


> I don't even think you get what you pay for at times. I think the good workers will charge higher prices, but a high price doesn't mean good work either...


Firehawk, 

I understand your frustration with your one, single experience. I am sorry that it was so unpleasant. 

But, I need to say this - Good workers don't need to charge higher prices, because they do it quicker..... much, much quicker, than hacks, rookies, or even semi-experienced drywallers.

We consistently come in at the mid-range with our pricing. We tend to be the "middle guy". We consider ourselves experts on drywall, and can offer level 5 finishes on work that requires it. We have done every type of drywall project that exists, in every possible environment you can imagine (yes, even outside). You cannot see seams when our workers are done. We go thru with a bright halogen light during the sanding process, and also "after" the sanding process. If I am assigned to check a drywall job, I bring my own light, & go thru every single square inch of the walls and ceilings. The point: our pricing is in the middle.




Firehawk734 said:


> ...I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with the same crap. I think new companies just don't hvae that experience and definitely wont' take the proper time to work slower to do it right (since less experience means you need to take more time to get it right).


When it comes to drywall taping & coating, working slow, or slower, simply does not equate to a better job. It's *Skill* and *experience* ....that does. 
It's a fact: If you don't have the skill and the experience, when put under close inspection, the work will not yield professional results. 

Alot of people don't realize that hanging sheetrock takes skill and intelligence, so as to: Find warped studs and correct them, place seams in the "right" locations, among other factors. 
As far as speed goes: One good and experienced hanger can hang 30 to 40 twelve-foot sheets a day, on a new construction job. 

Taping and coating sheetrock takes far more skill. I feel, it is an art form. It takes many, many years of taping (and working with the worst framing and remodeling jobs) to get truly good at every aspect of taping. IMHO-It takes over 10 years fulltime experience, with ALOT of remodeling-work (not just new construction), to really become an expert at it. Not all tapers, and not all drywall companies offer that.

(FWIW: An expert can look at the work of a novice, or someone with even mid-range drywall experience (even 10 years after it was done), and can immediately see the skill level of the person who did it)


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## Firehawk734

I believe you. I guess my point is that there's really no way, shy of physically gonig to see their other works (which someone did suggest to me to do before i hired them), you really wouldn 't ever know. And i'd only know what to look for because I pay attention to detail. The average homeowner may hvae no idea other than seeing the obvious. Youknow what i mean?

Oh well. Lots of hacks exist in this world, that's for sure.


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## kgphoto

Firehawk734 said:


> Well I may eat a little crow, but here's what happened:
> 
> I went with the guy I planned to go with. The contract was for drywall hang and finish walls/ceiling, prime 1 coat, (I paint), then they install padding/carpet. 2900. The carpet was berber. The square footage of the drywall hung was ~1600 sq foot including ceiling. I think ti was more like 1700-1750 with soffits, etc. Now keep in mind, I know some things about drywall, but I'm no pro and I only know what I know from asking around and looking it up online.
> 
> Anyways, They told me 2 weeks to complete the project. I am in week 6 now and they never finished. Here's the story:
> 
> I said "you couldn't cut a piece of cardboard and block it when you were spraying? Give me a break".
> 
> I have this all documented in email as well. They email me this long apologetic letter and give me the choice to opt out of the contract and not pay any more than I paid up front (which I paid half).
> 
> So essentially I got the drywall hung/mudded, primed, padding and tack strips for 1450 bucks.
> 
> And they had to lose a ton of money on my job as they were 1 hour or so away from me, so all that gas over 5 weeks time adds up.
> 
> 
> ?


So do you have the original contract you can share? I would like to see the terms and conditions. My guess is since you talked them down in price they did it as a side job to keep the guys working, but fit it in around their more profitable jobs. IT obviously didn't have the oversight from the company or the GC (YOU) to insure a correct job.

The gas they spent is meaningless to you . It doesn't make any part of your job better and is just a rationalization to make you feel better.

Putting the the cardboard to stop the wires from being painted is YOUR job as you are the GC on this.

An as the GC on this, you should have never let the job progress before correcting the mistakes you noted. Also, I would do the tear outs and patches now before the carpeting comes in. It will be much faster and cleaner and better for your carpet to do it now. Even if you do it yourself.


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## Garasaki

*SLOW CLAP*

This thread is really a great read. There's a lot of information here. I really enjoyed reading it and am very glad I clicked on it. (Even though it didn't display a lot of hard pricing info - I understand why no one ever really wants to respond to that question on a forum like this)

Thanks all.

:thumbup:


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## navidave95

I need help.
I hung the rock in my 12 x 14 room...8' ceiling and taped most of it now my neighbors work for a construction company and turned me onto a guy that had the whole job done in 4 hours (no texturing).
What should he charge (approx) ?
He wants $715.00 
I thought that 200 would be fair
thanks


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## oh'mike

Navidave95----Please start a new thread-----this post is many years old and very long--

No one will give you an answer here.---Mike----


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## chrisBC

I think the rule of this thread is: sure you can have it perfect and flawless, as well as cheap. Just pick one.


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## kgphoto

No $200 is not fair. Whatever you agreed to pay him before hand in fair. We can't see how crappy a job you did hanging and how many joints there are compared to if a pro did it, so we can't tell you. The minimum I would charge is $425.00 and probably more once I saw the site conditions.


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## Fiveash

I agree you get what you pay for. If you think your going to save a few bucks you will learn the hard way. You can't expect a company to work for pennies. Illegals aren't the way to go and if your getting dirt cheap prices they will do shanty work and you will have to get someone come in and fix there work later. If you ad insurance and the many other things a business owner has to ad up then you see. If you want quality work you have to pay quality price, not saying the higher price is right. Get a few other quotes, check there references if they have them. General contractor's or the one's that hire illegals are the one's who don't even know how to do the work and are the reason many home owners end up unhappy and I've saw it a million times. 


Derrick Fiveash


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## Firehawk734

kgphoto said:


> So do you have the original contract you can share? I would like to see the terms and conditions. My guess is since you talked them down in price they did it as a side job to keep the guys working, but fit it in around their more profitable jobs. IT obviously didn't have the oversight from the company or the GC (YOU) to insure a correct job.
> 
> The gas they spent is meaningless to you . It doesn't make any part of your job better and is just a rationalization to make you feel better.
> 
> Putting the the cardboard to stop the wires from being painted is YOUR job as you are the GC on this.
> 
> An as the GC on this, you should have never let the job progress before correcting the mistakes you noted. Also, I would do the tear outs and patches now before the carpeting comes in. It will be much faster and cleaner and better for your carpet to do it now. Even if you do it yourself.


I never checked back on this thread until recently when someone asked another question, and when I read this post, it didn't sit with me very well. Not all the points, but one point in particular, and I have been stewing on whether or not to say something. But, on behalf of customers, I think I'm going to.

You have to be outside of your MIND if you really think it was my fault that they spray painted over the plugs as well as the lights. I'm one of the most honest, up front people you will ever meet, and I will accept the fact that I should not have had plugs in there to begin with, and maybe not even lights. Maybe I should have told them to bring their spot lights down there to work with lol. That would have made more sense I guess. I installed recessed lighting and there were bulbs in them, you know, so they could SEE what they were doing. The thing that is unsettling with me the most is that you are excusing the fact that the pros, the ones that do this for their living, didn't stop for a second and recognize that the plugs were in the wall and say something to me like "hey, do you want to make cardboard cutouts or take your plugs out because we are going to spray the walls", or "hey, do you want to remove the light bulbs while we spray the ceiling"?

While it seems like something I obviously should have seen in hindsight, I am not the pro. I don't do that work for a living. I'm not used to running into all kinds of situations. As a business, if I hired you, and you gave me some lame excuse like that, I would fire you on the spot, and that's ultimately what I did with these people. I fired them. Maybe not soon enough, but i fired them anyway. As a business, you have to have some integrity. It's not about having blinders on. I'm sorry, but this really irritates me to read a comment like that. Customers that will recommend you are ones that do a good job, are honest, and care about their work.

I don't know if I posted this back then, but on one wall I had furr stripped to the concrete for drywall to be installed, and they used 1 3/4" long screws. Well, there was only 1 1/8" of material (I believe fur strips are 5/8" and drywall 1/2" so 1 1/8) so guess what happened? They hit the concrete with their screws, which pulled the fur strips off the wall, and then when they brought it to my attention tried to tell me it was my fault because I shoulda used 2x4. I asked them how long the screws were they were using. They said 1 3/4". I explained that the material was only 1 1/8" (as they could clearly see if they paid attention). I explained that given the application and space I COULD NOT have used 2x4s. It would not have looked right. So, when I explained to them that using a shorter screw would have been the thing to do for the job, they ignored me and continued to repeat themselves.

Sorry, but I don't accept passing blame when it's obviously your fault.

And back to my original reason for this lengthy rant, if you run a business, even if you do nice work, but do them with blinders on, well, you're the pro, and in my view much is expected out of you to guide me and make sure the job turns out nice. Not blindly spray paint everything in sight. That's just ridiculous. As a paying customer, I am expecting you to do what I ask but don't do obviously dumb stuff or do things incorrectly. 

I don't mean to jump down this guy's throat, but that really got me stewing. Now I feel better.

It was a learning experience, one that reiterates that if you want something done right, you do it yourself.


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## chrisBC

Yes, or pay the money for a more professional outfit, who will do a written contract with all this stuff (like masking lighting and windows) outlined in a scope of work, signed by both parties, as well as a written guarantee. However since these companies have been around for awhile, they know what to charge to stay in business, which is usually more than their cheaper competitor.

Just like what you can expect from anything else in life-You get what you pay for, cheap prices will get you a cheap job, talking people down in price will get you an even cheaper job (I would never trust a contractor who lowered their price on demand, a price should be a determined amount that it will take to get the job done...) 

Sounds like a frustrating situation, better luck next time. There are a lot of people who are very capable of "getting the job done right"


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## Firehawk734

chrisBC said:


> Yes, or pay the money for a more professional outfit, who will do a written contract with all this stuff (like masking lighting and windows) outlined in a scope of work, signed by both parties, as well as a written guarantee. However since these companies have been around for awhile, they know what to charge to stay in business, which is usually more than their cheaper competitor.
> 
> Just like what you can expect from anything else in life-You get what you pay for, cheap prices will get you a cheap job, talking people down in price will get you an even cheaper job (I would never trust a contractor who lowered their price on demand, a price should be a determined amount that it will take to get the job done...)
> 
> Sounds like a frustrating situation, better luck next time. There are a lot of people who are very capable of "getting the job done right"


Hi Chris,

You are right. THere are some people who can get the job done well and conduct themselves with great integrity, and have common sense about them, etc. I just didn't hire one of them. 

Also, the price doesn't always equal good results, even if I had gone with the highest bidder. But yes, I get your point. This was the first time I had ever contracted something out, and I should have just done it myself. 

In this case, I guess I should not have assumed, but I actually thought they'd be rolling the paint on. But again, I didn't think anything of having the plugs already in. I'm sorry, but I just will not accept that the painter shouldn't have at least told me he was gonna spray all the plugs and such. Seems logical, and sensible, that he could have said something to me before he started. There wasn't anything else to mask off besides the lights and the plugs in the room. No windows or anything...well, there was a solid core door that they apparently did avoid getting paint on as there wasn't any on it. I guess they get credit for that one.

I'm not trying to start a huge argument, I guess I will just agree to disagree. But it had to be said. I was a homeowner, not a contractor, nor did I have experience hiring contractors on any kind of regular basis. I feel it's the hired person's obligation to warn me of something like that. This is my opinion, and again, why I don't trust anybody. 

There may be some very legit people out there, but I think the vast majority are not, and are looking to get paid and move on as fast as possible. Workmanship in recent history is secondary to getting paid. This goes for most professions.

I still think that kgphoto, if he would have been that painter, would have at least warned the homeowner before spraying over plugs. It's just logical to do so. Nobody is perfect and people miss things. But to blindly spray over plugs and lights is an unreasonable thing to do.


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## chrisBC

I understand your point.


The folks you hired definitely don't sound like pros. They sound like guys doing a side job, and/or guys used to being hired by builders to do new cheap spec homes, where profit and speed come first over quality.

I can't imagine doing business like that, and trying to survive in a reputation based business.

Anyways, don't want to argue or go back and fourth, just making a point that in my experience there companies who will "manage" your job: communicate with you, make sure everything is done properly and your home is protected, there will be a price difference between them and their cheaper competitors. Those who usually just "do the work" often not very well, and won't take the extra steps that the other company includes in their higher price, such as cleanup or taking some extra time for dust protection or masking items off.


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## MeganAZ

Well, I think I am the only female participating in this thread. I'm looking at purchasing a 7 year old foreclosed home that will need some work done to fix it up. I will have to hire a contractor to do the work and wanted to educate myself on items I want to have done so I can ask constructive questions before hand and be proactive as I don't want to be reactive (coming back and fixing something that wasn't done right the first time.)

I appreciate all of the comments and thoughts shared in this thread. I've learned some things to look for as far as a contract, experience level, materials, and how to check on their reputation (outside of the references they provide.)

Thumbs up gentlemen :thumbup:


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## Firehawk734

My first question would be why a 7yr old home needs a bunch of work done. Its 7yrs old!


What is wrong with it, seriously?


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## tylernt

Firehawk734 said:


> My first question would be why a 7yr old home needs a bunch of work done. Its 7yrs old!
> 
> 
> What is wrong with it, seriously?


This:



> I'm looking at purchasing a 7 year old *foreclosed* home that will need some work done to fix it up.


We just bought a foreclosure too, so I totally understand where MeganAZ is coming from.


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## MeganAZ

AZ was one of the hardest hit areas when the market crashed. Thousands of homes were foreclosed. Many of the homeowners were very angry that their home was foreclosed and therefore stripped the house of anything they could remove (perhaps a sense of having something tangible for all of the money they spent on their house that they would no longer have). That included ripping fixtures out of the walls.

In addition, many foreclosed homes are vandalized (many sit in areas that are borderline deserted-you can tell where the builders stopped as they are surrounded by empty lots.) I believe this house was vandalized ie broken windows, punches in the the drywall...kids up to no good.


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## Firehawk734

What a shame. Well i guess after those kinds of things are cleaned up you will have a very nice, new home.


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## KMSR.Renovation

*Drywall pricing*

I go to Homewyse.com to get a good idea of what costs are realistic for doing different types of work in different areas. Many other things factor in to this decision, but what has already been mentioned gives you some direction there. Many people say they do drywall, few do it well. you get what you pay for. Good luck, Mike


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