# Do I need to start over?



## Matt Tennessen (Feb 26, 2012)

I know, I know, another basement-related insulation question. I know what i'd do if I was starting from scratch but I'm hoping I don't have to and I've searched and searched for an answer but can't find one. 
My wife and I live in Chicago and bought a 90+ year old house at the beginning of the year. The basement was finished as a smaller two bedroom apartment probably within the last ten or twelve years. Because of a neglected sewer issue (that has been addressed with ejector pit and new pipe out to street) they had a drain backup and the drywall was cut about four feet from the floor (which is also the part that is below grade, 3'+ of the basement is above grade) to eliminate the water damaged stuff. Currently it's got a finished ceiling and drywall on the top half of the wall. It was framed out using metal studs ~3/4" from the perimeter wall and the used unfaced fiberglass batt between the studs against the masonry. When I remove the remaining batt, I can see a little black starting to develop here and there. My plan was to remove the drywall and insulation and then...? 
The guy at one contractor supply place told me to just put new fiberglass in and be done with it as it's not worth tearing he studs out. The guys at another were split; one said to undo the metal studs (but keep the track) and slip 3/4" rigid foam board in there and then reattach and put in new fiberglass. The other guy thought I could cut 2" rigid foam and place it between the studs as if it were batt. We all agree that it would be best to attach foam board to the walls and then frame but since the framing and electrical and water are already there that's where everybody's second option seems to diverge. 
Anyone else care to weigh in? Thanks for any and all advice.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Opinions are like you know what...:laughing:

If you are going to own the home for a while...do it right.

Rip out the drywall and the metal studs.

Put a proper layer of rigid foam on the walls, stud you wall out, re-run wiring, fill the wall cavity with unfaced fiberglass, re-drywall.

Done and done and warm.


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## Matt Tennessen (Feb 26, 2012)

Windows on Wash said:


> Opinions are like you know what...:laughing:
> 
> If you are going to own the home for a while...do it right.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply! I was just down there looking at the mess and I was wondering; is there any reason I can't use 1" foam board and stud over that? If I pull out the studs and can use 1" I don't think i'd need to alter water or electric.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Page 8, 29, 30, 51, etc.: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis
Notice the vapor retarding paint on drywall?

I would use 2" for your location and Case 8, I think..... much safer. I wouldn't use steel studs in a basement, for the thermal conductivity to the colder earth and air gaps created by design. Use a sill sealer for an air/thermal break at concrete.
Let's see what WoW has to say...he's usually spot-on.

Gary


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Will the 1" foam be better than what you have...absolutely.

Does it make sense to go with the 2" like Gary said...absolutely.

I also don't care for steel studs for multiple reasons.

The wall designs listed on Building Science.com are really bullet proof. They may cost a bit more than traditional concepts, however, they will make the home healthy, comfy, and dry.

Don't skimp here.


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm way out of my league here, but I do know Chicago has their own ideas regarding building codes, especially regarding electric.

If you are going to be working on the wiring, it might not hurt to run your ideas by someone who knows Chicago codes.


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## Matt Tennessen (Feb 26, 2012)

Again, thank you and thanks for the link. I've found a lot of info at building science but that report was a nice concise overview. My only concern is that my basement is only 40" below grade and the exterior is double wythe brick. I'm less concerned with proper insulation in regards to temperature as I am in regards to vapor. I want the above grade section to be able to dry out. I've been reading a lot of cautionary tales about "over insulating" old brick buildings and causing damage to the brick come winter.
Blondesense, I believe the only big code issue is in regards to absolutely everything being run through conduit but I have a couple of electricians I usually run my plans by beforehand anyway. Thanks though.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

The issue isn't over insulating the bricks. It is changing their ability to dry to one side or another.

If you have a vented brick exterior (i.e. weep holes) you needn't put any insulation directly on the brick. Leave the vent space intact and insulate the framing structural wall, not the brick.


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