# Corner shed Roof???



## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

Hello all,

I was on here the other day asking about DIY sheds and pre-builds, I am going for a DIY :thumbsup: 

I am going to build a corner shed now to reduce the amount of wasted space in the yard and incorporate a slide on one side and a swing on the other... My question is how to build the roof?? anyone build these before? I searched in sheds and didn't find anything.

thanks guys


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

A diagram with the measurements for the spans would be nice. Check for side yard and set-back clearances with your Building Department so removal isn't a requirement later....

Gary


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

Sorry about that... here is a little drawing of what I was thinking... I would like the swing header tied in somehow.. I have to little girls that want one  so why not... I only know the outside wall dimensions but would be guessing that the 2 returning in would be about 4 or 4.5ft. hope this helps?


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

I have no idea how you're going to frame that roof

Have you considered building a cape roof and extending the ridge pole long enough to be the swing?


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

The pole for the swing will be in the wall... NOT in the roofline I know the drawing is from the top  I will frame it and support it in the wall have it come out and A legged at the end... My girls are 2 and 3 months.. no weight or abuse.. I saw one on someone elses and it was pretty darn strong.. stronger than the cheapo kits from Walmart...

but I still don't know how to do a corner shed roof... I looked at local builders to see one inside but no one sells them... does anyone have pictures of how one is done?


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

bigbearz said:


> The pole for the swing will be in the wall... NOT in the roofline I know the drawing is from the top  I will frame it and support it in the wall have it come out and A legged at the end... My girls are 2 and 3 months.. no weight or abuse.. I saw one on someone elses and it was pretty darn strong.. stronger than the cheapo kits from Walmart...
> 
> but I still don't know how to do a corner shed roof... I looked at local builders to see one inside but no one sells them... does anyone have pictures of how one is done?


 Your girls are gonna grow and you have to build it so that they can use it in the future.
Eight year olds can really make a swing go high and you will need lots of swinging room.
I like the idea of extending the ridge board out and hanging the swing from that.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

Wildie said:


> Your girls are gonna grow and you have to build it so that they can use it in the future.
> Eight year olds can really make a swing go high and you will need lots of swinging room.
> I like the idea of extending the ridge board out and hanging the swing from that.


Agreed Wildie, but a corner shed doesn't have one.. well I dont think it does.. still have yet to find one I can look at. If anyone has pictures that would be awesome.

The one I looked at was built and braced into the wall.. It didnt move at all...


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

Here's an idea.

Build a basic hip roof design, but put a gable over the door. This will create 2 valleys, which will terminate at the 45 degree corners.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

loneframer said:


> Here's an idea.
> 
> Build a basic hip roof design, but put a gable over the door. This will create 2 valleys, which will terminate at the 45 degree corners.


I thought of that too, but instaed of a gable doing the front as well..

Do you need to have an overhang? or can it stop at the walls?

Wish I could find one to look at  make life alot easier.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

I would at least put enough overhang so that your fascia board will overlap the siding for water hold out purposes.

You could run a flat roof plane from the 22.5 degree hips at the 45 corners. It isn't going to be a technically easy roof to frame in any case, but it'll be a unique structure.:thumbup:

I don't have any pics of sheds like this, but I've framed some homes with similar details. 

Basically the rear corners are common hip framing and the front hips on the 45 corners are of the octagonal variety. There are many design options you can add to make the front roof plane more interesting, such as a barrel vault.:whistling2:


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

Here's a house I helped frame with a gable on the 45 walls, on the area above the garage, behind the chimney.


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

flat roof?


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

loneframer said:


> I would at least put enough overhang so that your fascia board will overlap the siding for water hold out purposes.
> 
> You could run a flat roof plane from the 22.5 degree hips at the 45 corners. It isn't going to be a technically easy roof to frame in any case, but it'll be a unique structure.:thumbup:
> 
> ...


Wow Loneframer.. you have done some very nice roof lines. Those are awesome and a little out of my league.

I was just looking for something like this.. I just dont know how to build the rafters for this? you cant use a ridge beam because there isnt one.. is there? I was looking for a pic of the interior of this pic then I could get it but I can't find any...


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

http://www.carpentry-pro-framer.com/images/pyramid-roof.gif


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

I have seen that pyramid before... Is a 5 sided the same idea? just add in one more section?


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

yep it's all the same thing. Hip rafters from the corners of your walls to a common point.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

So the center is just a meeting of all the corners? how do you join them? and the real dumb newbie question is how do you figure all the angles out? is there an easy trick to this?


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

easiest way. Do you have any builder friends, friends of friends?:laughing:
A turret roof only works with equal sides. the more I look at your pic the more of a pain in the ass this is. The only way to do a true turret and maintain a level soffit is to change the distance the soffit is off the walls. I.E. 2' at the back and 1' at the front. The roof would also "lean" to the back. The other way is to build a hip off the back corner and a gable across the 2 10' sides. Then you could build a 2 hip roof off the gable to the front wall.
sorry a gable CONNECTING the 2 10' sides, corner to corner


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

have I got my walls to long at the sides? I wish I could just find a book on these darn things... would make it easier i think, but I have not found any...


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

give me a bit. I'm trying to draw something up. the shed is fine just hard to put a roof on.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

thanks Craig4... you are the man. :thumbup:


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

The easiest way to figure out your rafter runs is to snap the roof out full scale on a flat surface, big enough to include your overhangs. The soffit can be kept level and equal overhangs by adjusting the heal cuts at the plate line.

Look at my first pic in my original post. The main porch roof is under a 4/12, while the cone is a 12/12, if memory serves me.:huh:

The soffits are level and equal overhangs.

Here's a few framing/finish pics from different projects.

Nothing is impossible, but it may be impractical.:laughing:


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

some nice work there Loneframer.. :thumbsup:

I have drove through neighborhoods lately in the newer communities and seen a lot of these out there.. just haven't seen one that I can look at inside.... Guess I could ring some door bells and ask... then run when they call the cops.. :yes:


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

this should give you an idea how it will work. if you give me the exact exterior dimensions. I can give you the exact hip sizes.


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

oops it's upside down. here is a pic probably upside down as well







nope not upside down


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

craig4 said:


> this should give you an idea how it will work. if you give me the exact exterior dimensions. I can give you the exact hip sizes.
> View attachment 31788


Thats awesome man... it will be 10ft across both backs and 6 on the other 2 then whatever that leaves as the front... i think this is sufficient enough and more room but less yard taken up than using a 8 x 10ft standard shed. if I'm out to lunch let me know...

again thanks man.. thats awesome having help like this from you.


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

2x4 walls or 2x6?
O.K. these are the numbers based on 2x4 walls, they are fine vancouver builds 3 storey buildings with 2x4. warmer= less need for insulation







all the numbers are to the center of the cut if you want to go single hips or the center of doubles. I would go 2 plys. 4/12 is flat for a hip roof in Alberta.
The hip cuts are 13.33 degrees the rafters to fill in the hips are 18.43 degrees. I have to go clean my pool now the wife is all over me. I'll check back around dinner to see if you need anything else.:thumbup:


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

2 x 4... dont think I need to go any bigger... just a shed right.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

Those drawings are cool, but I don't see why those three hips don't join in the middle, then run bastard hips on the 45 walls to join at the peak. The plane over top of the door will be a slightly steeper pitch than the rest, but it eliminates a bunch of extra framing.

That looks like a lot of unnecessary work and very difficult to pull off structurally.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

oops my bad


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

if you change the pitch you change the overhang. This way you maintain a 1 foot overhang and a 4/12. It works structurally.but it is a pain in the ass.
there is about 8 different ways to build it. I just like this one.:thumbsup:


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

craig4 said:


> 2x4 walls or 2x6?
> O.K. these are the numbers based on 2x4 walls, they are fine vancouver builds 3 storey buildings with 2x4. warmer= less need for insulation
> View attachment 31792
> 
> ...



You rock buddy... that is awesome :thumbsup: I just need the snow to go away and I will start posting pics of the shed goin up... hopefully in the next couple weeks.. we got a TON :laughing:

and I need time to desiphere the roof build.. lot going on in that roof.. wow.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

craig4 said:


> if you change the pitch you change the overhang. This way you maintain a 1 foot overhang and a 4/12. It works structurally.but it is a pain in the ass.
> there is about 8 different ways to build it. I just like this one.:thumbsup:


You can maintain the 1' overhang by figuring all your work from the fascia line, then work back to the plate line to set the height of the seat cut. I've done it a hundred times. The steeper slope will have a different HAP than the lower pitch. This is a 4/12 and a 12/12 with 12" overhang on both and level fascia line. The wall height is 8" taller on the 12/12, to make up the difference in pitch.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

One of my buddies is looking at this too... and brought up a good question.. could you not frame the outside fascia exactly with a one foot overhang that mimics the base.. then temporarily support it on the walls and build it in from there? got the idea after looking at Craig s picture.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

bigbearz said:


> One of my buddies is looking at this too... and brought up a good question.. could you not frame the outside fascia exactly with a one foot overhang that mimics the base.. then temporarily support it on the walls and build it in from there? got the idea after looking at Craig s picture.


Yes, that is possible. You could frame the entire roof in the driveway and lift it onto the walls if you have enough good neighbors.:thumbsup:

Here's the thing. If a roof can be built to work to the limits of the walls, it can be built to the limits of the overhang.

When dealing with unequal pitches, which I have often done, all the calculations are done to the fascia line, as the fascia line and ridge/peak are given points. The location of the walls below only come into play for the location of the birdsmouth, which can easily be located with the use of a framing square. If the walls are the same height and the overhang is to be level, the plate height will always be the same distance above the fascia. If the overhang is the same, the plumb cut on the BM will always be the same distance back from the fascia.

In extreme situations, the wall height may have to be altered to achieve proper seating for the birdsmouth.


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

loneframer said:


> Yes, that is possible. You could frame the entire roof in the driveway and lift it onto the walls if you have enough good neighbors.:thumbsup:
> 
> Here's the thing. If a roof can be built to work to the limits of the walls, it can be built to the limits of the overhang.
> 
> ...


that only works on equal pitches.
a 4/12 pitch and a 12/12 pitch will have an 8" height difference, if you have the same height walls and you maintain a 1 foot overhang. It's in the name. I'm not sure if it is an extreme situation if it happens every time.
I would show you some pics but I stoped taking pics of every house I build about 15 years ago. They are all the same anyways. building is building


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

craig4 said:


> that only works on equal pitches.
> a 4/12 pitch and a 12/12 pitch will have an 8" height difference, if you have the same height walls and you maintain a 1 foot overhang. It's in the name. I'm not sure if it is an extreme situation if it happens every time.
> I would show you some pics but I stoped taking pics of every house I build about 15 years ago. They are all the same anyways. building is building


It doesn't happen every time. In some cases, the steeper pitch gets 2x12 rafters, while the lesser pitch gets 2x6 or 8. That, along with the difference in the vertical rise more than makes up for the 8 inches difference in pitch.

As far as your statement about building is building and all houses are the same, I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Every project is still a work of passion for me.:thumbsup:


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## CookeCarpentry (Oct 17, 2009)

Your best bet is going to be bringing everything to one point.

While what craig4 drew will work, if you never framed a roof before, let alone a bastard hip roof, that is going to be very difficult for you to pull off.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

nothing is ever easy but I think on a scale like this it shouldnt be to bad to get a handle on... find center is the key...


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## craig4 (Mar 27, 2011)

i agree it is going to be a pita. The building is building comment was simply to say that building a shed has the same principles as building a 20 million dollar house. or a 15 story highrise. I've built or am in the middle of building all of them. I have been doing this for quite some time and I still love getting up at dawn and doing what I do. Most houses have an engineer, architect, designer and owner. building is just putting all their ideas together.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

agreed... :thumbsup:


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

You can frame this with a 4/12 pitch with the two 12' walls with three regular 45° hips and the three walls having equal sides at 45° with two bastard hips and a 4-11/16:12 pitch common rafter and having a 1' equal overhang all the way around.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

craig4 said:


> i agree it is going to be a pita. The building is building comment was simply to say that building a shed has the same principles as building a 20 million dollar house. or a 15 story highrise. I've built or am in the middle of building all of them. I have been doing this for quite some time and I still love getting up at dawn and doing what I do. Most houses have an engineer, architect, designer and owner. *building is just putting all their ideas together.*


I know plenty of guys who can build a shed, but it doesn't qualify them to build a "20 million dollar house".

I've seen plenty of framers fake it too. There is a difference between being right and being "close enough". The guys who know the difference are the ones who can see the difference.

The guys who don't know the difference think any monkey can be a framer.

It's cool though, to each his own.:thumbup:


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

Joe Carola said:


> You can frame this with a 4/12 pitch with the two 12' walls with three regular 45° hips and the three walls having equal sides at 45° with two bastard hips and a 4-11/16:12 pitch common rafter and having a 1' equal overhang all the way around.


And there is a guy who knows the difference. You are a true professional Joe.:thumbup:


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## redwood (Apr 10, 2011)

Now that there is a plan in place, who is going to show the OP how to layout the hips and rafters?


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

redwood said:


> Now that there is a plan in place, who is going to show the OP how to layout the hips and rafters?


Joe just made it so easy, it's practically self explanatory now.:thumbup:


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks Joe... Between you and Craig I should be able to knock this out... I appreciate both of your guys time and effort... Does your plan still work for a 10ft wall though? or do I have to accomidate for the smaller size? shed back walls are only 10ft.. no room for 12's.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

bigbearz said:


> Thanks Joe... Between you and Craig I should be able to knock this out... I appreciate both of your guys time and effort... Does your plan still work for a 10ft wall though? or do I have to accomidate for the smaller size? shed back walls are only 10ft.. no room for 12's.


No problem. Here is the drawing for 10' walls and 3 equal sides at 45°.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

appreciate that Joe... thanks man...:thumbsup: you didn't have too... but you did...

thanks again man


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

loneframer said:


> And there is a guy who knows the difference. You are a true professional Joe.:thumbup:


Thanks Lone. I feel that drawing it out in plan view and connecting the dots to the overhang always simplifies things and also lines the hip offsets perfectly off the corners.


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## Craftsman Jay (Mar 31, 2010)

bigbearz said:


> Thanks Joe... Between you and Craig I should be able to knock this out... I appreciate both of your guys time and effort... Does your plan still work for a 10ft wall though? or do I have to accomidate for the smaller size? shed back walls are only 10ft.. no room for 12's.


Loneframer always complicates things for me. He knows too much to dumb it down sometimes. 
:whistling


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I know this quick drawing is sloppy, and the rafter points aren't beveled pretty...... but it would be easy to build.

Whacha think? (Yes, the rafter tails all line up at the same height and the same distance from the walls.)


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

awesome detail... now that I can follow even easier... I love 3d.. helps the mind get a hold of what it should be. :thumbsup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

The back walls run 10' each
the two kid's walls are at about 5'
and the front wall is something like 7'

These measurement seemed to be about what you were showing in your original drawing.

Like I said, this wasn't too carefully done. Just knocked it out to let you visualize it.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

thanks Willie T... the reason for having a DIY website...

all you guys have made just one project that much easier for me... :thumbup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Here it is with a fascia around it.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I assume you understand this, but I'll run it down anyway.

The back corner hip and the two rear kid's hips will be easy to line up. Where you are probably going to have to take some asprin or hit a few drinks will be on that front.

For you........ and I don't mean this as a slight........ the easiest way to go will likely be to build up to the points of the two front kid's hips, THEN go ahead and hang the front fascia.

Once that piece of wood is up there, you will have a target to shoot for in cutting the lengths and angles for those remaining 5 or 7 rafters. That's not the "pro" way, but it might help keep you sane to do it that way.
********************************
The trick to remember is that you are basically laying out a simple 10' square building with hips on all four sides. Really nothing much to that.

The interesting part comes when you whack off one of those corners (the front entry). This changes the geometry of what would otherwise be all identical roof members. So.... it should be straightforward till you get to the framing of the front roof slope. And that is only a small part of the total job, so you can handle it.

Be aware that you are going to find that the bird's mouths (actually not "bird'smouths", but rather just rafter 'seats') on that front entry will not be the same as all the other ones. They will be a little different angle and they will not be cut as deep. Nor will the rafters sit on the wall the same as all the others. They will sit higher and farther toward the outside. Don't let that shake you. It has to be that way for the fascia to run at the same level all around the shed... and the inside ceiling line can be adjusted later if it begins to bug you.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

thanks for the vote of confidence Willie.. :thumbsup:

just kidding... I have built a ton of projects that were deemed "impossible".. a beer and some friends and all is good..


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

bigbearz said:


> awesome detail... now that I can follow even easier... I love 3d.. helps the mind get a hold of what it should be. :thumbsup:


If you want all the commons to be a 4/12....you can do that by shrinking the clipped 45° wall so that the run of the rafter is the same as the other 4/12 commons at 5'. That is just like a slice of an Octagon hip roof. Doing that with equal overhangs allows you to sit the hips on the corners and the pitch of the hip is 4/13 instead of the 4/12 commons. The regular hips at 45° are 4/17.

The first drawing I made was having all three sides equal but that creates a different pitch for the common and the hips offset the corners and is a little harder to frame, but it givers you a bigger wall.

If you don't need the bigger wall frame it like this drawing and keep all the commons the same and them you just make the Octagon hips with a 4/13 pitch. I hope this makes sense. Just giving you another option and an easier way to frame i if you don't need a bigger wall.


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks Joe.. I do need a bigger wall otherwise defeating the corner shed... I like your other drawing about the 10ft back walls a and the 6ft sides... will work the best I think.. that way taking up the most and little space in the yard at the same time :thumbsup:


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## TBFghost (Jan 21, 2009)

bigbearz said:


> Thanks Joe.. I do need a bigger wall otherwise defeating the corner shed... I like your other drawing about the 10ft back walls a and the 6ft sides... will work the best I think.. that way taking up the most and little space in the yard at the same time :thumbsup:


 
You got lucky my friend. This thread was spotted by a member of this forum's sister site that consists of nothing but professional contactors. A whole thread was started in your name over there to show you how it could be done. 

 As a member of that forum, I can tell you some of the advice you got from a few of the posts is the best you're going to get anywhere. Lone, Willie and Joe are all very good at what they do.


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## southshoreconst (Feb 13, 2011)

bigbearz said:


> thanks for the vote of confidence Willie.. :thumbsup:
> 
> just kidding... I have built a ton of projects that were deemed "impossible".. a beer and some friends and all is good..



Please be sure to post you please be sure to post your progress with this project including pictures. especially when framing roof and drinking:scooter:


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## bigbearz (Feb 16, 2011)

TBFghost said:


> You got lucky my friend. This thread was spotted by a member of this forum's sister site that consists of nothing but professional contactors. A whole thread was started in your name over there to show you how it could be done.
> 
> As a member of that forum, I can tell you some of the advice you got from a few of the posts is the best you're going to get anywhere. Lone, Willie and Joe are all very good at what they do.


Are you serious?? I was not aware of that at all... that is incredible and trust me I do appreciate the help that everyone put in. made a simple guys plans become reality.

THANKS AGAIN ALL OF YOU :thumbsup:


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## TBFghost (Jan 21, 2009)

bigbearz said:


> Are you serious?? I was not aware of that at all... that is incredible and trust me I do appreciate the help that everyone put in. made a simple guys plans become reality.
> 
> THANKS AGAIN ALL OF YOU :thumbsup:


I can't take any credit as I am just a finish carpenter with no roof framing experience, I just happened to be following Lone's thread on your dilemma.

There is a bunch of us lurking on this site trying to help where we can....


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## RBirch (Apr 10, 2011)

*Clipped Hip?*

Take the 10’ x 10’ and put on a perfect equal pitch diamond hip with the corner clipped off. 

Like this:


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

RBirch said:


> Take the 10’ x 10’ and put on a perfect equal pitch diamond hip with the corner clipped off.
> 
> Like this:


That's not a bad design either. It's actually an easier version of what I recommended earlier, which has a similar look, but would have required 2 valleys.:thumbsup:


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

RBirch said:


> Take the 10’ x 10’ and put on a perfect equal pitch diamond hip with the corner clipped off.
> 
> Like this:


 Where does the swing go? :huh:


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## Richard Hansen (Nov 18, 2012)

*Small Corner Shed Roof Design*

Hello,

I was reading the thread and I'm planning to built the same corner shed but smaller (7' x 7' x 4' x 4' x lenght were single door will go). I would like to get the minimum roof pitch (3/12 or 4/12) since I live in Northern California that has no snow. I would like to use 2x4 on everything (joist, stud, rafters, etc.) and shingles on roof. I would like to have 6"-12" overhang on all five sides.

I have no experience on roof framing and I need help on how to design and build the corner roof for the shed size that I need.

Please advice,

Thanks


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## Jthibaud (Apr 19, 2014)

Hi Joe,

You wouldn't happen to have the measurements handy for this in 16' version?


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