# New 410a condenser with old coil....



## simeltzer (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey all, any recommendations here are appreciated. I have decided to replace my 19 year old 5 ton condenser with a Goodman 5 ton 14 SEER (410a). I currently have an Aspen evaporator coil that is 410a compatible and is only 3 years old. All of the contractors that I have spoken with said I will be fine if I just replace the condenser and leave the evaporator coil. One contractor told me, however, that you cannot put 410a into a coil that has already had 22 in it. He said it will not work properly and will void the warranty on the condenser, even once it is flushed. What gives? Can I add the new condenser to the current evaporator, like all the others said?


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

simeltzer said:


> Hey all, any recommendations here are appreciated. I have decided to replace my 19 year old 5 ton condenser with a Goodman 5 ton 14 SEER (410a). I currently have an Aspen evaporator coil that is 410a compatible and is only 3 years old. All of the contractors that I have spoken with said I will be fine if I just replace the condenser and leave the evaporator coil. One contractor told me, however, that you cannot put 410a into a coil that has already had 22 in it. He said it will not work properly and will void the warranty on the condenser, even once it is flushed. What gives? Can I add the new condenser to the current evaporator, like all the others said?


 if you remove condenser r-22...run flush kit to flush out lines...and if ther are of proper size..there should be know problems... only you may need to change orifice....vac check and charge...good to go..


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

ben's plumbing said:


> if you remove condenser r-22...run flush kit to flush out lines...and if ther are of proper size..there should be know problems... only you may need to change orifice....vac check and charge...good to go..


 
Have you used those flush kits? (they have almost NO VOLUME) Do you think that flush gets everywhere thru the indoor coil? I don't and that's why I never recommend leaving an r22 coil. Flushing linesets is another story-I can blow anything out of a tube.


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

I concure.... for the cost of the coil do it right... .... short cuts cost lots of money.... doing it right costs money as well.. usually less than short cuts.... will it work... probably ..would I do it ... never


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

might want to find out from Aspen if that coil is a match for your 14 SEER condenser. If not, might as well get a 13 SEER condenser.

I don't use a flushing chemical. I just use nitrogen. An R410A compressor that has 64 oz of POE oil, can have 3 ounces of Min oil mixed with it without harm to the system or compressor.

I have no intention of telling any customer that they have to replace a 3 to 5 year old evap coil to get a R410A condenser installed.


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

beenthere said:


> might want to find out from Aspen if that coil is a match for your 14 SEER condenser. If not, might as well get a 13 SEER condenser.
> 
> I don't use a flushing chemical. I just use nitrogen. An R410A compressor that has 64 oz of POE oil, can have 3 ounces of Min oil mixed with it without harm to the system or compressor.
> 
> I have no intention of telling any customer that they have to replace a 3 to 5 year old evap coil to get a R410A condenser installed.


Beenthere you are a extremely smart person..... I diss agree with you on this issue....


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

oh ya for got to mention.... zero warranty on condensing unit in my province if coil not changed.... what does that tell ya....:no:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Haven't changed out a new coil yet, just because they are now getting an R410A condenser. How many years is it suppose to take before what little Min oil is left is suppose to do whatever harm its suppose to do? Guessing more then 3.

A lot of ice machines and walk ins in the 90s were converted over to 404A when their compressors died. And not all the Min oil was remove from those evaps or condensers. Those compressors didn't die.

Anyone that doesn't feel comfortable doing it. Should stick to their guns and not do it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

carmon said:


> oh ya for got to mention.... zero warranty on condensing unit in my province if coil not changed.... what does that tell ya....:no:


Strange thing is. Here, Ducane is the only one that MUST have the evap coil model and serial number on a compressor warranty.


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

I agree with all your comments.... we sell a lot of Lennox and we must have coil info.... It will work I do not really dispute that part.... its just the warranty issue.. 410 condenser old r-22 coil ...drive truck off driveway warranty over...


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Technow said:


> Have you used those flush kits? (they have almost NO VOLUME) Do you think that flush gets everywhere thru the indoor coil?  I don't and that's why I never recommend leaving an r22 coil. Flushing linesets is another story-I can blow anything out of a tube.


 really don't know if it truly gets everywhere in the coil... but its approved to perform and install 410a ....his coil is 410 compatiable 3-5 yrs old....not a short cut just good business practice... ben....as mentioned if you don't believe in it don't do it..


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## Johnny'sHotDogs (Jun 1, 2012)

Contact Goodman and give them the make and model of the evaporator coil and ask if it is compatible with the Goodman model condenser. If it is, ask if using it will cause any warranty issues with the condenser. Then ask if it matters if the old system was r-22 (or don't).


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## nunesent (Jun 1, 2012)

How about just getting a nitrogen charged unit. Also the fact that the coil and condenser aren't a match keep costs down stay to 13 seer as the indoor coil has a lot to do with seer rating . But if you go to r410 make sure that all parts have a higher burst pressure even the dryer.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Johnny'sHotDogs said:


> Contact Goodman and give them the make and model of the evaporator coil and ask if it is compatible with the Goodman model condenser. If it is, ask if using it will cause any warranty issues with the condenser. Then ask if it matters if the old system was r-22 (or don't).


Goodman, like all other manufacturers don't test their condensers with third party coils. Aspen would be the one that can say if their coil is suppose to be compatible with that condenser or not.


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## simeltzer (Jan 21, 2011)

Thx a lot for all of the opinions. I will probably look into both manufacturers and see what I can find out.


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

Just buy a Dry R22 condenser. Goodman sells them and add the required amount of R22


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## Johnny'sHotDogs (Jun 1, 2012)

HVAC Instructor,

Why would you go backwards? R-22 costs continue to rise and availability continues to decline, part of the system is already capable of handling 410a, and the cost of the condenser is about the same. The extra $$ spent on the condenser will be saved on the refrigerant.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You are on the right track. Go R410-A but be aware that you may need to change the evaporator coil as well. Your old one may or may not be compatible. If it is then all you'll need is an R410-A thermistatic expansion valve, the refrigerant metering device. And a good line set and evaporator coil flush before adding any R410-A.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Technow said:


> Have you used those flush kits? (they have almost NO VOLUME) Do you think that flush gets everywhere thru the indoor coil? I don't and that's why I never recommend leaving an r22 coil. Flushing linesets is another story-I can blow anything out of a tube.


 
Rx-11 states to follow through with nitrogen, never just the can of flush.

I don't ever use flush anyway, only nitrogen.


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

hi doc. it sounded like he was trying to save money. also what my sources tell me 410a will not be around much longer. i have seen new units with R407C being installed. the pressures are close to R22. and 407c is about the same price as 410A. The reason why they want to get away from 410A is the pressures and the cost of the equipment to handle it.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Something is terribley wrong. R410-A condensers, I've been installing many, many 3 ton 410-A condensers over the course of the past few weeks, are approximately $60 less than dry charged condensers and they come charged. I picked up a jug of 410-A for $59, buy a condenser and get a jug for that price. $98.00 if alone.

R-22 iss $364 alone. Lennox. 

I'm not certain how long R410-A will be around as I have also heard it will not be the main replacement for 22 for much longer. But if that truly were the case then wouldn't 410-A be more expensive, wouldn't it be going up in price? When it was announced that R-22 was being phased it tripled in cost and is expected to continually rise. 

The cost of R410-A is still dropping which leaves me to assume that the rumor mill is simply and only that.


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## simeltzer (Jan 21, 2011)

Thx again for the input. As some of you gathered my intention was to switch to r410a due to the rising cost and decreasing supply of 22. The cost of filling the dry unit alone is astronomical. I went ahead and went with the compatible evaporator that was previously installed and had the line set and coil flushed. Unfortunately this issue turned out to be small in comparison to the headache that I have been dealing with (ie. numerous techs, two weeks with no ac,....) we'll see if the new unit solves some of my problems.


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

wow 59 bucks for 410A. im paying 120 and i get AAA pricing.
407C is 165.00 and 318.00 for 22. could be over supplied on 410a.
what part of the country you fom Doc. maybe ill come over and buy a bunch. with the industry changing alot. no telling what is going to happen.
i still have a jug of R12. LOL


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I am in The HVAC capitol of the world. Wanna guess as to which city that may be?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Here's a hint..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7uXaNuWNE :thumbup:


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

doc, you live with george strait lol. yep that is hot down there. when son graduate boot camp from AF we went down there. i wanted to stay indoors all the time. you dont have much for heating then. after winter in march were in shorts and t-shirts when its 45 degrees. also you dont have to worry about freeze stats down there. thats why 410a is cheep down there. you use alot. supply and demand. LOL


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

R407c has a large glide, and of course, still uses POE oil. not really much of an advantage using it over R410A.


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

we use it at work for a direct replacement. also the Leiberts unit uses it


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

Doc Holliday said:


> I am in The HVAC capitol of the world. Wanna guess as to which city that may be?



no...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

hvac instructor said:


> we use it at work for a direct replacement. also the Leiberts unit uses it


Its also used in some RTUs. Still has a large glide, and is not a great substitute for R22.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Johnny'sHotDogs said:


> HVAC Instructor,
> 
> Why would you go backwards? R-22 costs continue to rise and availability continues to decline, part of the system is already capable of handling 410a, and the cost of the condenser is about the same. The extra $$ spent on the condenser will be saved on the refrigerant.


 
R-22 is still around for a few years and when it's gone just use a drop in refrigerant. No Problem.. Everybody is panicing and installing all 410 units, there are still a lot of R-22 at good costs.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

hvac instructor said:


> wow 59 bucks for 410A. im paying 120 and i get AAA pricing.
> 407C is 165.00 and 318.00 for 22. could be over supplied on 410a.
> what part of the country you fom Doc. maybe ill come over and buy a bunch. with the industry changing alot. no telling what is going to happen.
> i still have a jug of R12. LOL


 
407C ROCKS:yes::yes::yes: ME TOO R12 AND A COUPLE 30s OF 22. 410 sucks high pressure problems.


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