# TV Antenna



## shirbon (Oct 2, 2014)

can anyone recommend a good tv antenna that actually works. we are about 50 or so miles from the broadcasters, we have a square box antenna from wal mart that sits in the window and it plugs in to an electric outlet, it doesnt do much good a couple channels come in well, a couple are intermittent, another doesnt work most of the time. I had an roof top antenna from years ago ( channel master ) but that was for the tv before the government mandated digital signals, does that make a difference analog or digital tv/antenna ?, anyway couldnt get the channels very well with that either thats why we got the one that sits in the window that no better either. Do they make one that really works ?, not opposed to outside / roof top, or inside, as long as it works well. Thanks.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

You want something that mounts outside. I would suggest you check with a local shop for what is best for your region. Try to find an independent shop instead of one of the big box stores.


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## adamz (May 13, 2018)

You can get an idea of the distance to the transmitting antennas in your area at the two sites below. Line of site/signal is affected by terrain. For instance, living in a valley surrounded by hillsides is a bad scenario, hard to get good off-air signal.


An outdoor antenna on a rotor (to rotate it) is the best option. joed's idea of consulting a trusted professional is a good idea. They can likely tell you if it's worth mounting an outdoor antenna.


www.tvfool.com
www.antennaweb.org


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

About several years ago a antenna power booster was available. 2 parts, One mounted on the antenna with connecting box in the attic for the cable connections. I see they are still available for about 20 bucks but your independent shop as suggested will be familiar with that equipment.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

As with al real estate, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION, is the key to this. 

I also have poor reception with one of those indoor antenna gizmos, but when I move it 20' east, and use an extender coax , I go from 3 shoddy channels to 15 clear channels. 

It takes determination, and testing positions, until you find the perfect spot for the thing. 

Or as advised you can pay for a signal detection service to come out and walk around with their detector, and find the "sweet spot", in your home. 

They already know from experience which way to orient the antenna, so they are a step or two ahead of you there. 

Any satellite dish installer has the gear to detect the signal, and sometimes height is the best way.

ED


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

I ran a TV repair shop back in the 60's and our city is located in a fringe area that is 70 to 80 miles to several VHF stations. It required a rooftop tower of 40' (sometimes 50') with a top of the line Channel Master or a super Z, which was a locally made double stacked antenna, to get acceptable reception with a minimum of snow.

Some of those installations are still in use. They work on some of the stronger digital stations and not at all on the weaker ones.

There is no difference in the antenna for digital as opposed to analog in spite of what hype the manufacturers may use to tout their product. At 60 miles, you should be able to use a top line Channel Master with a 10' chimney mount and get good reception. That assumes you don't have a lot of dense trees or tall buildings blocking the line of sight and that the terrain isn't against you by making you on the back side of a slope that would block the line of sight to the transmitting antenna. If you had that same type of antenna installation before and the analog reception was snowy, you won't get satisfactory digital reception since digital receivers don't process weak signals other than failing to respond to them completely or freezing and pixilating unless they are up to minimum strength.

Cable sells well in our area for that reason and for the broadband internet option it offers. Costs me $165.32/mo. for TV and internet... I have to grit my teeth and bear it.

I'm sorry I can't offer you any other solution. Well, maybe a dish but cable beats that.


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## FM3 (Aug 12, 2019)

50 miles is pretty far but doable. I have a few different antennas in the attic, so they are about 20 feet high but have a wall in their way. Distance of 25 or so miles I think.

The 8 or so foot wingspan arrow style one does a bit worse than the 3-foot-high thin flat panel rectangle one. It's basically a clone of a DB4 antenna. I'm surprised how well that one works, but it makes sense since that style is better for higher band signals and the wingspan kind is generally better at lower signals. (UHF vs. VHF). Most signals here are the higher ones.

Also have rabbit ears sitting on a 6-foot-high shelf in the garage for the garage TV. It's a quality set of rabbit ears, but it's still rabbit ears. Even that does pretty well but does lose signal more and outright misses some channels.

Note that you can usually/sometimes combine antennas for a stronger signal. And also combine them but point them in different directions to avoid needing a rotor if you need a rotor.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

I've been researching this same topic, as my elderly parents are in need of a new antenna. I've been watching YouTube videos and found this guy who knows his stuff. Here's his video where he describes his top three outdoor antennas.


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## RealRobD (Jul 29, 2013)

shirbon said:


> can anyone recommend a good tv antenna that actually works. we are about 50 or so miles from the broadcasters, we have a square box antenna from wal mart that sits in the window and it plugs in to an electric outlet, it doesnt do much good a couple channels come in well, a couple are intermittent, another doesnt work most of the time. I had an roof top antenna from years ago ( channel master ) but that was for the tv before the government mandated digital signals, does that make a difference analog or digital tv/antenna ?, anyway couldnt get the channels very well with that either thats why we got the one that sits in the window that no better either. Do they make one that really works ?, not opposed to outside / roof top, or inside, as long as it works well. Thanks.



Look no further and waste no more time. This is what you're looking for.


https://www.televes.com/us/tv-distribution/terrestrial-antennas/intelligent-with-bosstech.html


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## RealRobD (Jul 29, 2013)

Dave Sal said:


> I've been researching this same topic, as my elderly parents are in need of a new antenna. I've been watching YouTube videos and found this guy who knows his stuff. Here's his video where he describes his top three outdoor antennas.



That is an outdated video.


This is the one you want:


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Don't forget the axiom of caveat emptor.

There's no getting around the fact that the more elements an antenna has, the better it will perform. Small compact antennas just don't work very well.

There's also go getting around the fact that an antenna works best when it on a line of sight with the transmitting antenna. Height and lack of obstructions are the key elements.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody that touts a specific antenna and doesn't mention its _forward gain_ figure (in dB's) or its front to back ratio isn't telling you anything but hype. 

Further, adding an amplifier when the _signal to noise ratio_ is poor is never the solution to poor reception.

Another key thing to keep in mind is the fact that the really good antennas are _highly directional_. In order to achieve the highest forward gain possible, they use several _parasitic elements_, called _reflectors and directors_, that are phased so as to reinforce the main _driven element's_ output. That process diminishes the reception from other directions and requires pointing the antenna accurately at the desired transmitter. If your stations are at widely different azimuths, you may need a rotor to orient the antenna. It's all about beam width. Some people just get a second antenna and point it differently (sometime causes ghosting though).

Lastly, you need to know that the bandwidth of an antenna decreases as the gain increases. A high gain antenna works best on the frequency it is cut for. And yes, the elements have to be cut to size for a specific frequency. A wide band antenna can't have the forward gain that an antenna that is cut for a specific single frequency. The gold standard for high gain and high forward to back ratio has always been the yagi antenna. It's very narrow banded though. When needing wider bandwidth, multiple yagis are stacked, each cut for a specific frequency, and phased properly to deliver a signal free of ghosting. The home antenna makers achieve that broadbanding by placing all the different cut lengths on the same boom.

As an amateur radio operator from way back, I have some experience building and operating different types of antennas and can assure you there are no new wonderful compact antennas. They are all subject to the same laws of physics. A multi element Yagi will always be the gold standard. Any multi element antenna will always be better than a compact one. The more elements, the better.


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

The Channel Master 3020 is about as good as it gets for fringe area reception. Put it on the chimney mount with a 10' mast. They are expensive though.

And no, there is no such thing as a digital antenna, antennas don't care one way or the other.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Your property elevation in relation to the transmitters also matters. I live at close to the high point in Lexington (1039' above sea level). Most days I can pull a clear signal from 46 miles away with a 12" loop of #12 copper wire attached to 300 / 75 ohm converter and plugged into my coax input.


My homemade (#8 copper wire) double W antenna located near a window on my second floor always gets a clear signal for 21 channels including the 46 mile one. The same antenna on the ground floor picked up every passing car.


Your GPS should tell you your elevation while sitting in the driveway.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

surferdude2 said:


> And no, there is no such thing as a digital antenna, antennas don't care one way or the other.





If I may, I would like to clarify this statement.




It's UHF vs VHF. VHF being used primarily for analog, and UHF being used primarily for digital.


So, yes, depending on your market, the antenna does "care", in that the antenna will not perform well for digital, if it's a HUGE yagi with a very large VHF section, and a much smaller UHF section (The CM-2020).


If your broadcasts are sent out via UHF, there's not much that will outperform the CM-4228 mounted as high as you can get it. This is, as others have mentioned, a rather direction antenna, so rotating my be the only out.


If your broadcasts are send out via VHF, or a combination of VHF & UHF, the the yagi style IS your best bet.




Last things I'll add. Using these antenna's indoor, like inside the attic, will reduce the effective range by somewhere around 50%. Also, if you are some 70+ miles from the broadcast tower, there's a good chance you will get nothing. If you're over 100 miles? Forget it, unless you have a 90 foot tower. The curvature of the Earth, and that darn mountain, has done you in. :vs_cool:


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The antenna does not care if if the signal is analog or digital. The antenna is built to the frequency it receives. Most but not all digital channels are broadcast on UHF. We have one that is VHF 7. You need the antenna for the frequency range you want to receive. It does not care if the signal is digital or analog. The same antenna you used 25 years ago to get UHF analog stations will still receive digital UHF stations.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

joed said:


> The antenna does not care if if the signal is analog or digital. The antenna is built to the frequency it receives. Most but not all digital channels are broadcast on UHF. We have one that is VHF 7. You need the antenna for the frequency range you want to receive. It does not care if the signal is digital or analog. The same antenna you used 25 years ago to get UHF analog stations will still receive digital UHF stations.





The antenna "does not care" is not a good terminology, but lets go with that..


How about "The antenna will pick up UHF, or VHF, *IF* that's what it's designed for".



How bout that? Will that appease everyone? :biggrin2:


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It is not a matter of UHF or VHF. Those are two different antenna often combined into one.
It is a matter of digital and analog. The same antenna is used for both. The frequency of the transmitted signal is what matters to the antenna not whether the frequency is carrying analog or digital signals.


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