# Toro Recycler mower w/ Tecumseh 6.5 engine - starts and immediately dies



## Pickngrin

I picked up a Toro 22" Recycler mower from the curb a few days ago. It looked relatively new and visually fine. It's got a 6.5 HP Tecumseh engine, model LEV120–361560B. The spark plug looked pretty new, as if the previous owner had just replaced it. Wouldn't turn over. I drained the old gas, monkeyed around with it a bit, and got it to the point that it will start and then die out 2-3 seconds later. Today I went to get a rebuild kit for the carburetor and rebuilt it. It's no better than it was before the carb rebuild. 
Any ideas on what else I should be checking on this mower? My knowledge of small engines is very limited..part of the reason I'm doing this is to learn from the experience (and, of course, to have a running mower!)

Thanks


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## bob22

A nice little project that can drive you crazy. Following site is pretty thorough and should give you much of the info you need. Post back with your progress.
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lmfaq.htm#lmaoil


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## piste

*Been there....*

Spent my whole summer, literally, trying to get my Toro 22" Recycler bought Aug 2008 to work. Went through everything you could possibly imagine...would take me 30 minutes to type the whole story. The shop had it more than I did this summer. I think the Toro Personal Pace is the best drive out there....but Toro does make its share of lemons and I got one. Mine is a Briggs and Stratton engine.

As part of the carb rebuild did you replace the intake gasket?? That's what it ended up being for mine..and this was done as an in-warranty repair at a local shop....after several other in-warranty repairs earlier in the summer....They replaced and/or doubled up...not sure which...the gasket between the intake/throttle body and main engine. I've heard tell that those sometimes warp or have issues...especially after heating up. This was done to mine I think sometime in August and it's worked fine since. Whereas before it was finicky as all get out...especially in taller wet grass. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## jcalvin

I bought a zero turn from a buddy this year that couldn't get it to run for $200. There was a fuel sut-off solenoid that had lost power due to a burnt wire. Took me about 30minutes to diagnose, fix, and start mowing. After a couple weeks, it would start dying after about 10 minutes, if it sat unused for a couple of days, and when I would fire it up it would die in a matter of seconds. I piddled with it on and off for a couple weeks. I checked everything and couldn't find a thing wrong with it. In an act of desparation, I unscrewed the fuel cap and looked inside with a flashlight. Lo and behold, a dead ladybug was in the bottom of the tank. I fished it out and never had another problem. Check for lady bugs!


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## Viper16

When you rebuilt the carb. did you open up the filter bowel for the gas? those bowels like to fill up with debris and water and will cause those surges...perhaps checking that out may help you.


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## Pickngrin

Thanks for each of the replies. Fortunately (or unfortunately, as it would have been an easy fix), there were no ladybugs in the tank!
Today, I change the gasket between the intake valve and the engine block. No change in engine behavior -- it still starts and dies almost instantly.

Funny thing, a few days after finding the Toro Recycler with the Tecumseh 6.5 HP, I found another Toro Recycler at the curb in my neighborhood, this one with a Briggs & Stratton 6.5. I figured between the two mowers, hopefully I'd get at least 1 running well, but maybe both. Well, the Briggs engine started up but gave off heavy white smoke. Turns out the previous owner had too much oil in there. Today I removed the carb bowl and cleaned it. Replaced the air filter. Starts up beautifully now, with barely a tug on the cord! So this one is running nicely, but I haven't figured out the problem with the Tecumseh engine yet.

Viper asked if I opened up the filter bowel for the gas? Do you mean the bowl under the carb? Otherwise, I am not famiilar with a filter bowel, and didn't find anything when I just Googled the term.

Thanks again


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## bob22

Yes, that bowl. Try to remove the bowl, float, and needle valve. Spray Gumout carb cleaner up into the hole the needle valve sits in to get rid of any debris/build up that may be gumming up the works. Reinstall and try again. Have to assume you are getting spark (does it get wet after a few pulls of the starter? Right plug?). Choke/linkage adjusted correctly? Mixture and idle screws at right settings?


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## Pickngrin

bob22 said:


> Yes, that bowl. Try to remove the bowl, float, and needle valve. Spray Gumout carb cleaner up into the hole the needle valve sits in to get rid of any debris/build up that may be gumming up the works. Reinstall and try again. Have to assume you are getting spark (does it get wet after a few pulls of the starter? Right plug?). Choke/linkage adjusted correctly? Mixture and idle screws at right settings?


Oh, OK. When I did the rebuild, I disassembled the bowl, etc., sprayed Gumout, installed a new needle, etc. I am getting spark (I used an inline spark tester to check). I don't see any mixture or idle screws on this carb. I believe the choke/linkage is adjusted correctly, but last night I was looking online for a picture of how it should look.


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## Pickngrin

Ok, I got the Toro with the B&S engine running like a champ with a minimum amount of effort, and I was getting frustrated with the Tecumseh, so I listed it on Craigslist and sold it the same day. I'm happy with the outcome. 
Thanks for all of the input and suggestions.


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## bob22

Nothing like selling off a problem; best fix of all!


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## Pickngrin

bob22 said:


> Nothing like selling off a problem; best fix of all!


 Well put!


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## toro

*fixed*

Changed the spark plug and cleaned carb on mine now it runs great.

I cleaned the carb then got one good mow and it started dying again. After cleaning the carb AND replacing the spark plug it works fine. 

BTW on second carb cleaning there was varnish build up again. 

YMMV


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## Pickngrin

Bizarre timing...I just came in from mowing the lawn. This is a different mower - a Toro Recycler 22" but with a Briggs 6.5 HP engine.
The mower was dying again, every few minutes. I was just about to look up this site and post a message, and I had email that there was an update to this old thread!
I took off the carb bowl and reinserted the metal piece that closes the needle valve. Then it started right up...and died a few minutes later. It seemed like the engine was decreasing in power as I was mowing, too. Any ideas on what I should do at this point?

Thanks


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## toro

*mower*

My experience with it so far has been:

1) Mower ran great for 2 years. 3rd season it started dying after about 5 minutes of run time.

2) Cleaned carb, visual varnish lumps on inside. Ran great for one more mowing session.

3) Cleaned carb again. Ran for 5 minutes and died. 

4) Changed spark plug. Runs great all the time now.


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## piste

Pickngrin said:


> Bizarre timing...I just came in from mowing the lawn. This is a different mower - a Toro Recycler 22" but with a Briggs 6.5 HP engine.
> The mower was dying again, every few minutes. I was just about to look up this site and post a message, and I had email that there was an update to this old thread!
> I took off the carb bowl and reinserted the metal piece that closes the needle valve. Then it started right up...and died a few minutes later. It seemed like the engine was decreasing in power as I was mowing, too. Any ideas on what I should do at this point?
> 
> Thanks


I have the same one. I finally broke down and pulled my carb apart for cleaning...first carb work for me. Runs better after carb cleaning and change air filter. But that doesn't last long. Don't really notice anything gummed up when cleaning carb. But seems my Toro expects a carb/filter cleaning every month or so. IMO the Personal Pace system is the best out there but the Briggs engines on the Toros are total crap. I'm gonna see how it goes but thinking I'll use the same strategy as Pickngrin in the near future. Thinking I might try a Toro commercial version next. The thing that gets me is these carbs are total crap....and the fact that they work well for a short while after cleaning lets the dealers exempt it from warranty coverage...."fuel issues" aren't covered. Even though the REAL root cause is a design flaw. Well...at least I know how to clean a carb and can avoid having to pay the local guy $40 every time to do it. They indeed don't make them like they used to.....


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## CHOPS!

*TORO recycler mower won't stay running?*

So.....
You've installed the new spark plug.
You've installed a new air filter.
You've cleaned the jet on the nut which holds on the carb bowl.
You've tightened the two bolts VERY GENTLY which join the carb with the manifold.
You've made sure the gas tank is clean and has fresh gas.
You've changed the oil and put in the proper SAE 30W oil (20 oz.)....

AND THE MOWER STILL STARTS AND THEN DIES!!???:furious:

DO NOT MELT DOWN JUST YET!:no:

I had this problem and I think I found the formula for the long term fix. If you have the skills and tools to take off the red cover AND the black metal cover which houses the start cord mechanism - here's what you do:

First, take a small wire brush (a 1/2" copper fitting brush works very well)and clean off the magneto surfaces on both the coil and the flywheel. If you don't know where this is, just follow the spark plug wire from the spark plug up to the coil and there it is. There is one surface on the flywheel and three surfaces on the coil.

Secondly, there is a very short black hose leading from the carb to the engine which you cannot get to without removing the black metal cover. This hose comes from the factory without clamps, and from what I could figure out, with age this hose loses vacuum when the engine gets warm and the hose expands slightly. That's why the mower will run fine for a few minutes and then all of a sudden after the hose warms up a little, expands and loses vacuum, the mower does the start and die routine which we all know can drive you nuts.
Get two spring-type hose clamps which are identical to the ones attached from the gas tank to the carb. These are available at Ace hardware for around 40 cents apiece and they are 1/2" O.D. size. PUT THESE CLAMPS ON THE SHORT BLACK HOSE. This is the "secret" ingredient to the long term fix.

Put the covers back on. Don't overtighten the bolts. And get back to work!:thumbup:


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## Marty1Mc

Personally, I do not like Tecumseh motors. Every one I have had I have spent countless hours trying to get it to run. One mower, no matter what I did, needed starting ether. After I got it started, it ran fine. I will only buy a lawnmower with B&S, Honda, or Kohler motors. Well, I should say I won't buy a Tecumseh.


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## JOEL18

*Toro Fuel Issues*

I am having the same problems with my Toro Recycler with the B&S motor -- stalls after starting -- I can pump the primer and keep it running. This happened last year and I cleaned the carb. and it ran fine for one year and now have the problem again --- poor design!

I am going to try a fuel injector cleaner in the gas and use the primer button to keep it running in hopes it will clear.

I will post if this works.

thanks,

Joel


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## piste

JOEL18 said:


> I am having the same problems with my Toro Recycler with the B&S motor -- stalls after starting -- I can pump the primer and keep it running. This happened last year and I cleaned the carb. and it ran fine for one year and now have the problem again --- poor design!
> 
> I am going to try a fuel injector cleaner in the gas and use the primer button to keep it running in hopes it will clear.
> 
> I will post if this works.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Joel


FWIW...after several carb cleanings using other products...I did a thorough cleaning and soak with B12 Chemtool in early spring...mower has been dead on reliable all season so far.


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## idlehands992

I have the same problem and after a few attempts at finding the problem I found a solution.I bought a Honda.


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## Marty1Mc

idlehands992 said:


> I have the same problem and after a few attempts at finding the problem I found a solution.I bought a Honda.


Agreed. My 21 yr old Honda walk behind starts on one pull. I don't even need to worry about the gas during the off season. It will start on varnishy crap that will kill my other mower.


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## CHOPS!

*Update to repairs by chops!*

If you can't afford the HONDA :laughing::no:, use my hose clamp fix. It works. My mower is still running strong and has had no other issues with gas or cleaning or whatever. The mower has had absolutely ZERO problems since doing the simple, low cost fix and starts EVERY time on the first pull. I just want everyone to know it wasn't a fluke and the fix is a true fix. Cheers.


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## SingleGuy

My toro Briggs / Stratton engine never would start after I got it brand new. Turns out the spark plug wasn't tapped properly. It starts on the first pull still after 7 years. Love that thing.


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## Evstarr

Tapped, or gapped?


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## SingleGuy

Evstarr said:


> Tapped, or gapped?


Gapped. Didn't catch that. Thanks


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## av-geek

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is ignition timing / flywheel issues. I have an older B&S Quantum mower. My house was abandoned when I purchased it, and I used the mower to clean up the yard. At some point, I hit something, and stalled the mower out. Well, this shears the flywheel off the key and knocks the timing off. The ignition timing is good enough to start the engine, but as soon as it gets spinning, it will be too far off for it to stay running, and it dies. My (new at the time) neighbor saw me cussing and swearing at the mower (which previously ran great) and he came over to help. He said that's a common problem with B&S motors if the mower hits something. He helped me disassemble it, pull the flywheel, and re-time it on the crankshaft. That was 10 years ago, and the mower continues to run great!


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## moore500

I am having this some problem with my Toro mower with Tecumseh engine. It will start with three primes and stall after a few seconds. If I hold in the primer it will continue to run. I have changed the spark plug, replaced the gas cleaned the carb, put hose clamps on the hose between the carb and engine. I guess the big difference between the other post and this one is the fact that if I hold the primer bulb in it continues to run. Any ideas?


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## biggles

the nut/bolt that holds the gas float bowl up has a small hole in it.the gas goes up and out into the spark plug any slight sliver of grass will stall you out after start ups...clean out with a sewing needle


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## moore500

I cleaned that out as part of cleaning the carb. I cannot understand why it runs by holding in the primer button. I don't know the inner workings of this particular carb.


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## Ravenworks

Replacing the primer bulbs helps sometime,checking the float level helps too but what really helps is giving up,either it works or it doesn't when it comes to Tecumseh.


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## SPS-1

moore500 said:


> If I hold in the primer it will continue to run.


Sure sounds like you have a broken diaphragm on your primer bulb. 

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/article/4262/How_to_Replace_a_Primer_Bulb.html


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## moore500

I will try a new primer bulb early this week, the parts dealership was closed today. One of the other issues with this mower is the gas tank leaks at the seam. I have a new tank on order. Could this be part of the problem? I have heard where people have had similar issues if they had a cracked gas cap on other mowers. Not sure if this needs to be a seeled system or not. Thanks for all of the help.


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## moore500

one more question, how easy is it to replace the bulb? It looks like you destroy the old one getting it out and put the new one in using a socket to push the ring in?


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## Ravenworks

moore500 said:


> one more question, how easy is it to replace the bulb? It looks like you destroy the old one getting it out and put the new one in using a socket to push the ring in?


Pretty much.


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## moore500

Okay, partial success. Getting the bulb off was more difficult than I thought. It did have a broken oring and I suspect a pinhole in it. After replacing it and putting everything back together it took a while of priming but the mower fired up and ran . My issue now is it is surging, I must have done something wrong in the reassembly. Any suggestions for this? I am just excited it is running on it's own for now. I will try to fix the surging tomorrow. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again for the help so far.


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## Ravenworks

Surging means air in system,the bulb isn't seated properly and it's sucking air.


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## moore500

UGHH:furious: .......any chance it could be a govenor adjustment....please.....I noticed the arm that the carb linkages are attached to is not totally vertical, when I hold it there the engine seems to run fine. If I didn't seat the bulb proberly my guess is I need to get a new kit and try again? I used a socket and tapped the retaining ring into place, not sure what else I could do better.


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## Ravenworks

I'm not sure about this ,anyone?


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## Lynch

I had a similar problem with my older Ariens lawnmower (6hp Tecumseh) a couple weeks ago. I had to prime the bulb a dozen times for it to even start. Once started it would run for a few seconds and then die. Eventually, after doing this process a few times it would stay started but would surge a lot while mowing. Here's what I did to get it working:


Changed the oil
Drained and rinsed out the gas tank (debris at the bottom of the tank)
Removed the carburetor and cleaned thoroughly with carb cleaner
Replaced the float bowl assembly/Primer bulb (bought off Ebay for $15)
Replaced gaskets
Replaced the gas line/clamps and installed a fuel filter
Replaced the air filter
Replaced the spark plug
After about $40 and a couple hours of work it now it starts within 2 pulls and runs great without any surges. I'm guessing that ultimately the fix was rinsing out the gas tank, cleaning the carb and replacing the float bowl assembly. I also gave the mower a thorough cleaning with a brush, there was a bunch of caked dirt on the deck and housing.


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## bob22

Don't adjust the governor linkage unless it has been changed. It can wreck the engine if it runs overspeed too long.
You can adjust the carburetor screws (if it has any) to even out the idle (assuming you've fixed the primer bulb issue and inside of carb is clean and float is properly adjusted).


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## BigNose

*Screen in gas tank*

I was going through all the same motions - new gas, spark plug (gap .030 per Tecumseh, .035 elsewhere but didn't make a difference so I left it at .030), air filter, wire the jet holes, and *still* it was missing. i took everything apart to spray out the carb and decided to make sure there were no obstructions in the gas tank. I filled with water and the outlet tube was very slow. I rinsed and didn't see anything wash out but after cleaning had full flow. My assumption is that the old gas "varnished" on the screen and restricted gas to the carb. I don't know if it was that or cleaning out the carb (didn't look dirty) but it's running without a miss now, after warming up 1-2 min.


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