# Can't Remove Tub Spout



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

hkstroud said:


> Suggest removing spout. It should either screw off or be remove by loosening set screw underneath.


On a related note, we're in need of removing our spout due to a diverter fail that results in us waiting for a few minutes for water to come out of the shower head. Thing worked just fine for about 5 years before this problem came up.

There is no set screw when you look in the little notch under the spout, so I'm told it must be a threaded joint. I'm no weakling and I can't twist the thing off. I even put a towel around it and used a big pair of channel locks on it. It won't budge.

I'm worried if I put much more force on it I'm gonna wreck the joint between the copper that's in the wall. Then I'll have to tear out the tile, cement board, etc. and have a plumber come in to replace that.

Any ideas how to get this thing off?

Edit: It's a Moen setup. Got in touch with their customer service department, they shipped us a new diverter thing immediately. Told them about my woes about not being able to get the thing off. They had no clue.

EDIT: Made this it's own thread  Moderator


----------



## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Moen's are usually set screw. Look again. Otherwise it is an aftermarket brand and should unscrew.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



TheEplumber said:


> Moen's are usually set screw. Look again. Otherwise it is an aftermarket brand and should unscrew.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


Thanks for responding Eplumber! We got right in there with a mirror and a bright flashlight. Several times. Can't see a set screw at all. All we can see is the copper pipe.

It's weird. The guy at the local hardware store used to be a plumber. He even said "If there's a notch, it's a set screw setup. The threaded ones don't have a notch." We have a notch, but can't for the life of us find a set screw which I would think would be obvious.

Moen customer service definitely asked us if it was a set screw or threaded, so I know they make both.

It's definitely not aftermarket, the whole thing came as a moen set.

Drives me nuts first thing in the morning waiting for the shower to come on and watching all that hot water got straight down the drain.

Somebody mentioned that perhaps the joint between the copper and the spout had perhaps gotten corroded? Maybe we need to somehow get some of that stuff that eats corrosion up there? I think it's called CLR?

All I know is that I tried to twist that thing off with a lot of torque and it doesn't want to budge one little bit. I would think with the force I was putting on it, even with a set screw I would have broken it.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Is there maybe a bit of water deposits around the set screw hole, blocking your view of the screw?

Use a stiff scrub brush, and some toilet bowl cleaner on it to maybe scrub anything blocking the view.


ED


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Nope. Wife just got back in there (again) just now. Says she has a very clear view of everything inside the notch. Copper pipe is all she can see. She was pretty firm about this. Lol. Not a thing obstructing our view. Using a small mirror jammed under notch, shining flashlight on the mirror to reflect light up in there.

Uh oh, now I've got her going! She's in there taking a pic of things now. I'll upload the pic when she's done. There is some silicone my brother in law (installer) mashed into the hole where the pipe goes through the cement board. But that can't be either obstructing view of set screw or covering it up.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Can't you ask the BIL what he did?

ED 

PS: looking forward to a picture.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Ok, well, we both got in there and I brought out my good camera and the mirror. It was cozy, but these two are the best pics I could get. Hope they show you guys something. If you click on the bar to enlarge the image they're a little clearer.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



de-nagorg said:


> Can't you ask the BIL what he did?
> 
> ED
> 
> PS: looking forward to a picture.


Yep, we asked him. He couldn't remember what he did, other than to say "Whatever the instructions told me to." He does plumbing and heating and his wife's a plumbing inspector. Lol.

It was quite a while ago, and I guess if you do this stuff for a living they all blend in after a while. I can't remember what colour I painted a room the day after I do it.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

That is supposed to be a set screw application.

Did you by chance save the instruction sheet with the warranty papers?

I too am confused now.


ED


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



de-nagorg said:


> That is supposed to be a set screw application.
> 
> Did you by chance save the instruction sheet with the warranty papers?
> 
> ...


Ugh, I can look but I'm pretty sure we got rid of all that stuff a couple of years ago. My wife was kicking herself about having done that a short while back.

So, you think it's a set screw type thing too eh? Double Ugh. But you don't see the set screw in there either right?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

Correct, I see no screw.
The best guess I have is that the screw is recessed into the dark cavity that is not illuminated. 

but knowing if it is a screwdriver, or allen head ?


ED


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



de-nagorg said:


> Correct, I see no screw.
> The best guess I have is that the screw is recessed into the dark cavity that is not illuminated.
> 
> but knowing if it is a screwdriver, or allen head ?
> ...


Yeah, without the two of us in the tub with the flashlight and mirror you can see back into the recessed cavity pretty well. Just copper pipe for as far as the eye can see.

I think I looked it up a while back when we were trying to figure this thing out. I seem to remember it was a 7/64 allen key. Had the thing all ready to go, couldn't find the set screw.

I'd also wonder if it was any further along in that cavity towards the front of the spout, you'd never be able to get an allen key in there.


----------



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

The "if there is slot, it has to be a set screw" comment is misleading and incorrect. 
Just looked at my own (Moen) setup. There is a slot and I know for a fact it was a screw on diverter. Think of it as a weep slot for any water that may get in there.
No visible setscrew, then most likely screw on type.




Regarding the OIP"s problem, if removing the diverter doesn't solve the problem, then I would suspect someone ran 1/2 pex down to the divereter as Eplum or Ghost indicated.
I solve this restriction problem by running 3/4 pex and using special adapters that go from 1/2 NPT to 3/4 male pex.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PXDE075-050-3-4-PEX-x-1-2-NPT-Brass-Drop-Ear-Elbow-Lead-Free

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PXF075-050-3-4-PEX-x-1-2-NPT-Brass-Female-Adapter-Lead-Free


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



Yodaman said:


> The "if there is slot, it has to be a set screw" comment is misleading and incorrect.
> Just looked at my own (Moen) setup. There is a slot and I know for a fact it was a screw on diverter. Think of it as a weep slot for any water that may get in there.
> No visible setscrew, then most likely screw on type.


Thanks Yoda. I wondered about that as well if it might be for drainage.

I guess at the end of the day all I can wonder about is whether or not I can wreck something by turning this thing too hard? At this point I don't care anymore if I wreck the spout, I can get a new one. I do care if I tear the copper joints apart in the wall. I sure don't want to have to remove the tile and start over on that again. The back side of this wall is drywall with the vanity jammed up against it.

I do remember asking my BIL if we should put an access panel in front of the valve assembly. He said once it's installed you should never have to touch it again.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



Wildbill7145 said:


> I'm really sorry for totally hijacking this thread Power-. If a mod wants to pull my problems out of this one and make a new thread, I'm all for that.


Wildbill: I had another idea, may be a bit outlandish, but here it is.

You said that you had a replacement diverter/spout?

So take a Dremel with a CUTOFF wheel, and open that slot on the old one wide enough that you can definitely see what is up in there, pry back the "wings" , to get a good sight.

Then you will definitely know if there is a screw or not.

I forgot to mention USE SAFETY GLASSES

Power: I too apologize for using your post to offer Wild my advice.

And The "sparky" thing was hopefully a "just kidding" thing, guess you took it wrong.

I am all for DIY ing, been doing it for 50+ years. 


ED


----------



## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*

wild bill
I can certainly understand you concern about not damaging the pipe.

I suggest that you get out your hacksaw and cut the spout about 1 1/2" from the wall
You of course won't be cutting straight through You will be cutting around the spout. Cutting the outer shell of the spout only. There is considerable distance between the outer shell of the spout and the piping.
There are two types of screw on spouts. One has the screw fitting up next to the wall. 
The other has the screw fitting closer to the diverter valve. 
If you have the slip on type or the screw on type with the fitting close to the wall, the end of the spout will fall off.
You can confirm which type you have. If you have a screw on type you can use a strap wrench with more confidence to remove.

If you have the screw on type next to the diverter and have a torch you could apply some heat to break the bond. Just make sure that the pipe has cooled (run some water) before trying to unscrew. Hot copper bends easily. If it won't unscrew, cut the spout again just ahead of the fitting, heat the fitting (unsolder)and pull the spout and the male pipe adapter off together.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



de-nagorg said:


> Wildbill: I had another idea, may be a bit outlandish, but here it is.
> 
> You said that you had a replacement diverter/spout?
> 
> ...


Hmm, could do that. I was just telling the wife I'd be willing to take a hack saw and cut this thing apart to see what's holding it on. Just get a replacement faucet. Thing's made of plastic or whatever anyway. (Edit: Just checked. The shower head's plastic, not the faucet.)

I think my wife has a dremmel. Not sure about a cutoff wheel. I've got a 12amp angle grinder, but I'm sure that'd be a bit much.

Moen sent us these things. Thought they were sending us a brand new faucet, ended up getting these.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

*Re: Shower head drips when spout running*



hkstroud said:


> wild bill
> I can certainly understand you concern about not damaging the pipe.
> 
> I suggest that you get out your hacksaw and cut the spout about 1 1/2" from the wall
> ...


That's what I was just talking to my wife about too. Man do I hate doing my own plumbing. Either way I'm not getting into this today. Don't have a torch and if I really wreck something I'm not paying a plumber $200 an hour to have them come fix it on a Sunday afternoon if I can find one that'll do it.


----------



## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Moved posts to it's own thread- I hope I got all posts included- :wink2:


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

You're a good man Eplumber from one mod to another (painttalk). Thanks for giving this thing it's own thread.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

This might end up being a stupid question, so be prewarned.

So, I stick my mirror under the part of the faucet where the water comes out. Pull up and down on the pin on top that determines where the water goes. I can see both parts that I'm supposing have to get changed out. The ones I posted pics of above.

What are the chances that I can change those parts without having to pull the faucet off? I wonder if there's a way to pull that pin apart to change the white thing and once it's out of the way I could possibly get at the black O ring type thing that goes above it? Maybe I should take a pic of what I'm talking about.


----------



## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> What are the chances that I can change those parts without having to pull the faucet off?


Not a snowballs' chance in Hell.

What will happen if you put too much pressure trying to unscrew will be that you twist the copper pipe. The problem then is that you have to go into the wall to replace. Chances of twisting the pipe is not very great is it is a screw off type.

It certainly looks to be a screw off type. No signs of set screw or the collar it screws into in your photo.

As someone else suggested a Dremmel tool would be the best. Faster than hacksaw.

The connection between the spout and the male adapter on the end of the pipe doesn't have to be very tight. There is really very little water pressure on it. So what if it leaks. That's why you have the drain hole.

What probably happened is that BIL had to really crank down on it when installing to get the spout up against the wall.

Its his fault no matter what.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

Lol. As an aside, my wife and I just fixed this albeit possibly temporarily.

Got up in the end of the spout with my Dad's old pocket knife and a pair of needle nose pliars. Got the gate valve out by prying the plastic white piece (pictured above) out by prying the friction fit around the pin piece off with the pocket knife and pliars. The bit Moen sent us totally didn't fit. Way too wide. We're not gonna have a shower for days... Oh no.

Mashed the old black gasket/ring around a bit. Looked fine. Rammed it back in there into the white piece. Put it back in around the pin until it held.

Tried it, and voila! Shower came on first try. Tried it probably 30 times after that and it worked every time!

Now I gotta figure out a way to punish myself for having lived with this thing not working for the past several months. Anyhoo, perseverance is the key.

And the desire for a shower every morning.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

hkstroud said:


> Not a snowballs' chance in Hell.


I gotta call someone. A Canadian just made a snowman in hell, and it held!

We know this stuff!


:biggrin2:


----------



## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

.


> A Canadian just made a snowman in hell, and it held!
> 
> We know this stuff!


It is so nice to be wrong.

Congratulations

PS
If your fix doesn't last, you could always lay down in the tub, stick your big toe up the spout and let the wife take a shower.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

No that won't work.

Stuff a potato up in the spout and shower with her.

:devil3::devil3::devil3:



ED


----------



## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Looks like it unscrews.


----------



## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

And for GAWD SAKE, if you ever get it screwed off do not put Teflon tape on the threads for re-assembly so the next person will have the same hell you've had. :biggrin2: Just claim you are normal and a slow learner like other folks.:smile:


----------



## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I gotta call someone. A Canadian just made a snowman in hell, and it held!


70 above (+19 deg. Celsius): Texans turn on the heat and unpack the thermal underwear. People in Canada go swimming in the Lakes. 
60 above (+14 C): North Carolinians try to turn on the heat. People in Canada plant gardens. 
50 above (+9 C): Californians shiver uncontrollably. People in Canada sunbathe. 
40 above (+4 C): Italian and English cars won't start. People in Canada drive with the windows down. 
32 above (0 C): Distilled water freezes. Lake Superior's water gets thicker. 
20 above (-6 C): Floridians put on coats, thermal underwear, gloves and woolly hats. People in Canada throw on a flannel shirt. 
15 above (-8.5 C): Philadelphia landlords finally turn up the heat. People in Canada have the last cookout before it gets cold. 
0 degrees (-18 C): People in Miami all die. Canadians lick the flagpole. 
20 below (-26 C): Californians fly away to Mexico. People in Canada get out their winter coats. 
40 below (-36 C): Hollywood disintegrates. The Girl Guides in Canada re selling cookies door to door. 
60 below (-46 C): Polar bears begin to evacuate the Arctic. Canadian Boy Scouts postpone "Winter Survival" classes until it gets cold enough. 
80 below (-56 C): Mt. St. Helens freezes. People in Canada rent some videos. 
100 below (-66 C): Santa Claus abandons the North Pole. Canadians get frustrated because they can't thaw the keg. 
297 below (-164.5 C): Microbial life no longer survives on dairy products. Cows in Canada complain about farmers with cold hands. 
460 below (-246 C): ALL atomic motion stops (absolute zero in the Kelvin scale). People in Canada start saying, "Cold 'nuff for ya?" 
500 below (-266 C): Hell freezes over. The Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup.


----------



## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Is the spout still looking down or did you turn the chrome part.


----------



## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

One thing that was forgotten in the above list.

At -40 Wildbills' toe gets frozen in tub spout, Wildbills' wife gets to take a long shower.


----------

