# insulation -- adding cabinets in knee wall



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

It's as simple as building 3 walls and a simple flat roof, There is no reason to have it even tie into the rafters that are there now. As long as the new walls and roof are insulated and the inside is sheetrocked it will work fine.
It would be best to install a header over the top of the new opening since this is a supporting wall most likly.
It would be the same thing as building a closet in a house, just insulated.


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

joecaption said:


> It's as simple as building 3 walls and a simple flat roof, There is no reason to have it even tie into the rafters that are there now. As long as the new walls and roof are insulated and the inside is sheetrocked it will work fine.


Ok, that would simply things I think. I will have to check my planned cabinet dimensions to make sure I can fit everything in the space. Back to sketchup!



> It would be best to install a header over the top of the new opening since this is a supporting wall most likly.


Interesting. I was thinking the wall is not load bearing since it appeared to be 2x4's tacked to the rafters and the floor, and studs in between, to support the wall. After googling the topic some, there are mixed opinions for similar projects. Some say it is load bearing, as the studs fall directly under the rafters. However, there is no support directly underneath the wall. The wall is supported by the floor joists that also form the ceiling over the garage.

My plan is to install 3 cabinets, each approx 46.5" wide so that I will leave every third stud in place. I think there would easily be room to add a header over each opening. Would jack studs be used on each end or can I attach the header to the remaining studs? 

Thanks, 
flamtap


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Since we have no idea what these cabinets you plan on using look like or how you plan on laying them out some info may not apply.
Why are you spacing them out?
Why would you leave studs in place?
Much simpler to just install one header and fill in with what ever you need.
That wall may or may not be a supporting wall, why take a chance?
Yes you have to install jack studs.


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

I need to update my sketchup drawing. (I started this idea 5+ years ago). 

My idea is to insert cabinets into the wall, rather than replace the entire wall with cabinets. I'm thinking two storage cabinets on the sides and a cabinet to hold flat-screen TV and equipment in the middle. There will be a little bit of space between each cabinet. 

So rather than tearing down/re-framing the entire wall I'm hoping I can just cut holes in it where the new cabinets will go. But I will consider other arrangements. Before I make final plans I need to know what accommodations I need to make for insulation and structural considerations. 

I don't have access to my old drawings on this computer, but I will try to post some later to give you a better idea of what I'm planning. 

flamtap


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

You would not want the space the openings only a 2X4 apart. There would be no way to trim or finish it out. 6" would be more like it.


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

joecaption said:


> You would not want the space the openings only a 2X4 apart. There would be no way to trim or finish it out. 6" would be more like it.


Agreed. I think in my original plan I must have had 30.5" wide cabinets 14.5" apart. (so remove one stud for each cabinet and have 2 studs in-between.) 

I have in my head that I need a wider center cabinet now as I am planning for a larger TV. Obviously, I need to review my old drawings again!

flamtap


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

Was able to get to one of my old drawings through an online backup. This might help give you an idea of what I'd like to end up with: 










flamtap


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

So what is the garage width? What size are the rafters- 2x10's? No center wall below in the garage? No beams below? What size are the floor joists- 2x12's?

Gary


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

GBR in WA said:


> So what is the garage width? What size are the rafters- 2x10's? No center wall below in the garage? No beams below? What size are the floor joists- 2x12's?


The rafters are 2x8. The floor joists are 2x10. The garage is 24' I think, and there is a large beam across the middle supporting the joists in the center of the garage. I don't know what the beam is made of, it's enclosed in drywall, etc. 

As for the insulation, I am considering this box idea more, except that I may use the rafters as the "top" of the box, and just build a back wall and sides where needed. 

On an older similar thread, someone suggested using unfaced insulation with plastic sheets over everything for the vapor barrier. Any reason why that would be better or worse than the paper-faced batts? 

Thanks for all the tips!

flamtap


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

No poly: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...heet-310-vapor-control-layer-recommendations/

The paper-faced batts are variable; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0004-air-barriers-vs-vapor-barriers

Compare the ink stamp on the rafters for the species wood of rafters for spans; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_8_par027.htm?bu2=undefined May not need a header...the wall is for drywall/attic separation, not required structurally for your span if lumber grade is per minimum code. 

Air seal the floor joists under the flooring, at the knee wall to stop air movement degrading your f.g. insulation there. Use housewrap or foamboard on attic side of knee wall (tight to extended baffles with proper ignition barrier only if required. Caulk the bottom plate on the attic side at subfloor to stop air infiltration/exfiltration. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy00osti/26450.pdf

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/installation-of-cavity-insulation/

Gary


----------



## flamtap (Feb 22, 2007)

These links answer a lot of questions. The insulation in the current knee wall is paper-faced batts, so I will probably use the same in the new insulated wall. 

I always wondered about vapor control in Southern climates... It seems like so many of projects on popular shows & websites are very Northern-centric. 

I'm working on my plans in sketchup. I'll be back when I have some drawings to add. 

flamtap


----------

