# How to replace a partially rotted soffit that's sandwiched in



## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

When you say there is "no way to reattach the cornice nailer" I am wondering why.

There is always a way to get something done and I don't see why you can't remove that and put in another one.

Remember that the spores and fungus that cause rot spreads to other areas and if you don't replace some of the wood surrounding it the problem will come right back. Some of this can travel several feet into the wood and hasn't started the rotting process.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

The layer of brick below the cornice nailer is flush (in the same plane) with it and I can't get a nailer in there to reattach it. It would be hard to even toenail it, I think.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

Well I am missing something here. It looks like you could nail it up to where the OSB is now.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

I'm probably doing a poor job of describing. If you look at my 4th (last) photo, you can see that running a reciprocating saw just under that OSB soffit, would allow me to pry the old soffit down and pull it out, but the 2 x 4 that makes up the bottom part of the "sandwich" would just fall down and to reattach it after pulling out the soffit would be impossible (the brick is in the way of the nail gun). It would leave me with nothing to reattach the cornice board to.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

pgraff99 said:


> I'm probably doing a poor job of describing. If you look at my 4th (last) photo, you can see that running a reciprocating saw just under that OSB soffit, would allow me to pry the old soffit down and pull it out, but the 2 x 4 that makes up the bottom part of the "sandwich" would just fall down and to reattach it after pulling out the soffit would be impossible (the brick is in the way of the nail gun). It would leave me with nothing to reattach the cornice board to.


You are going to reattach the OSB once you cut it out right? How are you going to reattach the OSB (or plywood)? I assume that some sort of nail.

Once that is place then nail up the cornice board to the OSB/plywood.

There is always glue. I have used that with good success in some applications.

You can also use galvanized screws since this is not structural. I have an extension for my impact driver that will allow me to get into some very tight corners and get in a screw for non structural things.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

I want rid of the OSB altogether and was hoping to trim out the old soffit and attach 3/8" plywood instead, nailing it back into the joist overhangs. The cornice will hide the plywood joint where it meets the wall.

Since starting the post, I see that Craftsman makes a 3" mini circular saw that I could run along the wall after pulling off the cornice. If I adjust the depth right (so I don't cut into the joists), I could free the exposed soffit and leave the piece that's sandwiched. Do you think that would work?

Related questions that's been really bugging me -- Why would a carpenter insert such crappy (short lived) soffit material into the framing to make it nearly impossible to remove?


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

pgraff99 said:


> I want rid of the OSB altogether and was hoping to trim out the old soffit and attach 3/8" plywood instead, nailing it back into the joist overhangs. The cornice will hide the plywood joint where it meets the wall.
> 
> Since starting the post, I see that Craftsman makes a 3" mini circular saw that I could run along the wall after pulling off the cornice. If I adjust the depth right (so I don't cut into the joists), I could free the exposed soffit and leave the piece that's sandwiched. Do you think that would work?
> 
> Related questions that's been really bugging me -- Why would a carpenter insert such crappy (short lived) soffit material into the framing to make it nearly impossible to remove?


OSB is not much different than plywood. Both would rot in this situation and more than likely plywood would rot faster. OSB has a lot of glue in it that prevents mildew and fungus compared to plywood.

I think you have some misconceptions about OSB.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

Yes, I guess they are similar and both will swell & delaminate in the weather. Actually, in this case, the fascia wicked water to the soffit which was inserted in a groove (dado) in the fascia. I think a badly installed metal drip edge (touching the fascia) started the problem. I do remember a builder saying it's not a good idea to install drip edge on a 12-12 pitched roof because the drip edge will ride on the fascia.

My real question should have been, why would a builder use OSB as an exposed (to weather) material for trim and fascia, knowing that water will eventually penetrate, cause delamination, swelling, and rot? Painting slows it down, but does not stop it.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

pgraff99 said:


> Yes, I guess they are similar and both will swell & delaminate in the weather. Actually, in this case, the fascia wicked water to the soffit which was inserted in a groove (dado) in the fascia. I think a badly installed metal drip edge (touching the fascia) started the problem. I do remember a builder saying it's not a good idea to install drip edge on a 12-12 pitched roof because the drip edge will ride on the fascia.
> 
> My real question should have been, why would a builder use OSB as an exposed (to weather) material for trim and fascia, knowing that water will eventually penetrate, cause delamination, swelling, and rot? Painting slows it down, but does not stop it.


That is the real issue.

Wood needs several things to survive for centuries. One is to be kept out of water, the second is that it need air circulation to keep moisture from building up.

Preventing water from getting on it can be done by many means. The best is to have good waterproof materials to keep the water off. I am a fanatic about routing water away from wood.

A second but less favorable option is to paint, stain, waterproof the wood. Since there is no such thing as waterproofing wood it has to be "waterproofed" often to keep the moisture out. Paint and stain will both go bad over time and needs to be redone.

I have ripped apart 100 year old homes that were built in a very rainy area (over 300 inches a year) and the wood was dry and rot free. It was well protected with good air movement and the original builder knew about moving the rain away from the wood.

On the flip side I have seen new homes with poor quality work and rotten wood that was new only 10 years earlier.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks for the information and affirmation. I guess the short answer is cost cutting/profit -- and the builder knew it would last at least 5 years. 

Do you think a little hand saw like this would work to cut the soffit out near the wall? (see photo)


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

pgraff99 said:


> Thanks for the information and affirmation. I guess the short answer is cost cutting/profit -- and the builder knew it would last at least 5 years.
> 
> Do you think a little hand saw like this would work to cut the soffit out near the wall? (see photo)


Nope.


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

I "FEEL" your pain. MY idea of fixing something like this is to fix it permanently the next time,,,in other words I would use plastic engineered soffit boards and plastic OR aluminum soffit material and leave it open underneath for air flow(NO plywood),,,by screwing on a ledger board of sorts to attach house side of soffit to. 

Never had one OR used one,,,but would a 'zip' saw get you close enough?? They DO sell a multitude ofattachments for those,just unsure if it would be RIGHT one!!

I think they need a flush cut saw invented also,,,sorta like a jamb saw to shorten door jams for flooring??? Lots of aplications like that where you have to reach in and flush cut a surface next to another


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

This appears to be the framing of a Bay window area. This most likely was put together when brick veneer and drywall was not in place. 

Will you have better access to your bad wood if you remove some drywall ceiling in this area? Yes it is all more work then you wanted to do, but...sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

If this or any additional effort is work necessary to provide a nail-able surface per code, than the efforts and all needed restoration required for access should be covered by your carrier if you have filed an insurance claim. ( Do you have Ordinance and Law coverage?)

Or if this and other damage was lower than your deductible... do what you need to do... yes you might be able to tool up... and make some of this restoration happen... but I think yo will find better access the key to solving your dilemma.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

4just1don said:


> I "FEEL" your pain. MY idea of fixing something like this is to fix it permanently the next time,,,in other words I would use plastic engineered soffit boards and plastic OR aluminum soffit material and leave it open underneath for air flow(NO plywood),,,by screwing on a ledger board of sorts to attach house side of soffit to.
> 
> Never had one OR used one,,,but would a 'zip' saw get you close enough?? They DO sell a multitude ofattachments for those,just unsure if it would be RIGHT one!!
> 
> I think they need a flush cut saw invented also,,,sorta like a jamb saw to shorten door jams for flooring??? Lots of aplications like that where you have to reach in and flush cut a surface next to another


Yes, you are absolutely right about that. I really want to go all Hardie products, but having just bought the home and with so many other expenses, I just wanted to do some fast fixes on a couple of rotted spots, to hold me until I take out a loan for the entire exterior. I guess I need to look at the saws in person to see how close they will let me get.

Marvin Gardens says it's not the way to go, but I gotta look at it.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

Big Bob said:


> This appears to be the framing of a Bay window area. This most likely was put together when brick veneer and drywall was not in place.
> 
> Will you have better access to your bad wood if you remove some drywall ceiling in this area? Yes it is all more work then you wanted to do, but...sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's a 1st story bay window that I decided to 'play with' before attacking the real trouble area - a 2nd story eave that has the actual hurricane blow-off damage. The fascia up there was so rotted that it flew off in chunks, and as expected when I climbed up there last night, the soffit is mushy also. You are probably right that the soffit is done differently on this bay window, than it will be when I tear into the 2nd story eave. The soffit up there is probably held up by the cornice only -- do you think? There's no brick immediately below that eave, just wood siding. 

I just have no experience with exterior home trim and don't know how a trim carpenter would do it, so that's why I used the bay window as an experiment before climbing 2 stories to tear up my house.

From what I might be hearing, the bay window soffit might be put in differently.

No, I don't think I need to do any sheetrock removal (yet), because I expect the rot to be limited to the rafter tailing.


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## dguttowsky (Oct 19, 2008)

*feel your pain*

I am going through the same thing.The old soffit board (pressed cardboard) is sandwiched between the rafter run-outs and a 2x4 nailer that you call a cornice. The cornice can't be removed because it appears that it was installed before the brick was installed ,making it impossible to remove all of the old soffit.Am I right? You will have to just cut the old soffit flush with the cornice.where it runs under a rafter, that tool that you showed should work,or a small jig saw. A little cutting into the wood shouldn't hurt.Nail your new Plywood (my choice) to the run-outs and into your grooved fascia.I have a 1x4 trim board to nail back into my "cornice" to complete the job.Heavy weather sealing to follow.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

dguttowsky said:


> I am going through the same thing.The old soffit board (pressed cardboard) is sandwiched between the rafter run-outs and a 2x4 nailer that you call a cornice. The cornice can't be removed because it appears that it was installed before the brick was installed ,making it impossible to remove all of the old soffit.Am I right? You will have to just cut the old soffit flush with the cornice.where it runs under a rafter, that tool that you showed should work,or a small jig saw. A little cutting into the wood shouldn't hurt.Nail your new Plywood (my choice) to the run-outs and into your grooved fascia.I have a 1x4 trim board to nail back into my "cornice" to complete the job.Heavy weather sealing to follow.


Thanks for the reply and the encouragement. Misery loves company. I think we have the same situation. What I'm calling "cornice" is just a 1 x 6 trim that nails flat against the wall, right below the inside edge (against the house) of the soffit. This 1 x 6 has to nail into the 2 x 4 that is sandwiching the soffit, flush with the brick.

The process you decribe is exactly what I decided I have to do, but I found (and bought) what I think is a better tool. Roto-Zip has a right-angle rotary saw attachment with a blade guard and depth control. They advertise it for flush cutting and it looks like it might be able to cut within 1/4" or less of the wall -- much closer that a jigsaw and the guard will act as a guide to make the cut straight and at the depth I need. Bought it for $99 as a kit at Home Depot. Haven't opened it yet, but looking at the attachment on the shelf (it's sold separately), I think it will work well.

I'm including some photos. Keep me posted on your progesss -- and pitfalls you uncover. Thanks so much for your repsonse. -Paul


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## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

pgraf99, I also have a similar problem that you are describing. My house is approx 45 miles due east of yours. It was built in 1983 and has the 3/8 pressed board soffitt with 1x6 fascia that has the dado in it.

Best I can tell, they put the soffitt in the dado, then raised the board up and nailed it. A 1x2 underneath trims out the installation next to the house (siding on one side, brick on the other).

I'll have to check into that ROTO zip attachment. I have a Zip already so that might just be the ticket for me also.

Now about that fascia...are you going to dado your own boards or do you have a source? I couldn't find any locally and Olshan's said they hadn't carried it in 5-6 years. I finally found 5 16 footers at Deer Park Lumber. The roofers replaced the bad ones when they installed the roof last Monday.

Good luck with your repair job.
Mike


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

MT Stringer said:


> pgraf99, I also have a similar problem that you are describing. My house is approx 45 miles due east of yours. It was built in 1983 and has the 3/8 pressed board soffitt with 1x6 fascia that has the dado in it.
> 
> Best I can tell, they put the soffitt in the dado, then raised the board up and nailed it. A 1x2 underneath trims out the installation next to the house (siding on one side, brick on the other).
> 
> ...


Yes, sounds like you have the same situation. I still can't believe a builder would use that material on something as exposed as fascia. Even with good paint cover, it's bound to start wicking water like a sponge once the water finds an entry point.

I'm planning to use 1 x 6 cedar for the fascia and 3/8" plywood for the soffit, and 1 x 6 cedar for the trim against the wall (because that's the dimension my builder used for that). I'll use my table saw with a dado blade set to cut the dados. However, if I find I can't get a perfectly straight flush cut on the old soffit, I don't expect I'll be able to use a true dimensioned soffit going back in, which could make using a dado difficult. I mean, fitting back into a dado requires everything be square. Might make more sense to use a cedar furring strip to finish the edge at the bottom of the soffit where the dado would have been. The furring strip won't really be structural since the soffit will nail to the ceiling joists. It will just seal up any gap that's there.

I also expect I'll have some bad rot on the rafter tails since I already saw some of that on the bay window. The bay project was just an experiment to see what I could expect on the 2nd story, where the real damage is.

To tell the truth, I'm just trying to delay doing the whole exterior in Hardie. Just bought this home and can't afford that right now but can afford to spend a few $100 to fix the hurricane damage and get a few more years out of the exterior overall. All the window trim is also made from that crap, but it should hold a few more years.

Good luck and be sure to share your insights. Thanks for the feedback.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Go ahead and pull out the cornice nailer. You can nail it back with a mini palm nailer. Other alternative: It looks like you have enough clearance to predrill holes in you cornice nailer, insert short 1/4" lag bolts, place in position and tighten the bolts with a wrench.

Definitely use one of the new plastic fascias. I would consider putting Ice and water shield or peel and stick flashing on the subfascia before covering with fascia as insurance.


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## pgraff99 (Oct 6, 2008)

Gosh, that's an entirely new system I never would have thought of. I did not know there was such a think as a palm nailer. Since I have the entire outside to do, though my example only dealt with the bay window, I don't know if I could manage doing it that way, which is probably the right (or better) way.

Is it considered a best framing/trimming practice to sandwich the soffit in like that? I did not want to repeat what I thought was a mediocre practice -- sort of like welding in an auto part that will eventually wear out and need to be replaced, making a massive headach for the mechanic who has to replace it.


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