# My Basement Project - Framing



## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

ARe the crown of the studs all the same way...crown facing toward the inactive side of the wall which would be the outside wall?


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> ARe the crown of the studs all the same way...crown facing toward the inactive side of the wall which would be the outside wall?


The lumber I used for this wall are very straight and yes I tried to put the bow/crown in the same direction.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

*not square*

My first roadblock :furious:

Turns out that the framing wasn't aligned properly as I was trying to put the second frame. my frame wasn't right up against the right wall and I didn't use a plumb bob to check if it was straight (my first framing  ). 

Long story short, I need to move the top an inch to the right or the bottom an inch to the left. I'm thinking the top would be comparatively easier to move? There are 12 joists that I nailed this frame to and 5 nails driven using powder actuated nailer. What are my options at this point?


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## picflight (Aug 25, 2011)

Why does one have to create walls in the basement? Why not create a floating or hanging roof and finish the floor? Wouldn't that create a place to hang out?

What is that white piece behind your frame?

Sent from my iPhone using DIY Forum


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## andybeck (Jun 18, 2012)

Kim,

I have also recently started the job of finishing my basement but did things a little differently than you are. 

I was told not to use plastic sheeting against the foundation as that will only trap moisture and eventually lead to mildew. I ended up using paper faced batt insulation. From what I was told, the paper on the insulation acts as the moisture barrier. 

I also did not frame directly against the concrete foundation walls. I did not build the walls in sections and raise them into position. Instead I placed the bottom plate (which needs to be treated lumber) about two inches away from the foundation wall. I then added the vertical studs on each end, the top plate, followed by the studs in between. I don't know if this method is the preferred way but it worked very well for me. The benefit that I realized was that the plumbness of the exterior walls was irrelevant to the plumbness of my walls. When you leave a space, you can ensure that each stud that you put up is level and that the corners are truely 90 degrees. 

As far as your problem goes, I don't know how you can unattach the stud wall without causing a great deal of damage. The only option that I see is to cut the top plate between each joist and pry the remaining nailed pieces out from the joists. This way you would only need to replace the top plate. I used screws for all of my framing which probably took longer and was more expensive but was nice for instances like this. 

I am no expert, I just thought I would share a little bit of my experience in my basement. Here is a pic also of my framing.

Good luck,
Andy


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking in the same direction to cut the top plate but since it's tightly jammed in there, I'm not sure how easy it would be to to pry the nails out without damaging the studs. 
btw, your framing job looks really nice and clean.




andybeck said:


> Kim,
> 
> As far as your problem goes, I don't know how you can unattach the stud wall without causing a great deal of damage. The only option that I see is to cut the top plate between each joist and pry the remaining nailed pieces out from the joists. This way you would only need to replace the top plate. I used screws for all of my framing which probably took longer and was more expensive but was nice for instances like this.
> 
> ...


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

that's how it's done around here! don't ask me why as I'm not qualified to answer the question. that white thing was my projector screen that I painted on the wall.




picflight said:


> Why does one have to create walls in the basement? Why not create a floating or hanging roof and finish the floor? Wouldn't that create a place to hang out?
> 
> What is that white piece behind your frame?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DIY Forum


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

You want to move the wall plumb and it is nailed to the joists above?

Why not just cut the nails with a sawzall, putting the blade in between the topplate and the joist or blocking. Tap it plumb and re-nail. A chalkline along the joists would be a good idea as well.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

problem solved! :thumbup: used hacksaw and was able to cut the nails and move and straighten the studs  now my total upper body is sore!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Find Zone: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_par002.htm

Base. ins.= http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec002.htm

R-13 (cavity) required per code (minimum). No vapor barrier. A, B, C; http://www.buildingfoundation.umn.edu/OCBasementSystem/ProjectReview.htm

Pick your wall, follow it through the article, pp. 7: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis
Try a "search" in the white box- top of any page- eg. "basement insulation".

Gary


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

A bit confusing but what I got out of the articles is, according to code, I shouldn't use vapor barrier.
I'm in zone 4A and my basement wall R value is 10/13. so what's the best way to handle the vapor? leave it open or are there any material available that takes care of it. I know the house has moisture treatment applied on the outside walls. please advise.




GBR in WA said:


> Find Zone: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_par002.htm
> 
> Base. ins.= http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec002.htm
> 
> ...


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

you will also need some fire block foam or fire caulking and put it at the backside of the top of the wall plate where the space between the new wall plate and concrete block wall is. this stops drafts from entering the floor cavity above if ever there was a fire that got into the wall down there. fire foam is easier to work with than fire caulk...


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

*inside and outside corners*

I've seen several ideas for framing inside and outside corners. any recommended methods? (pictures appreciated)


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

kimbhoot said:


> I've seen several ideas for framing inside and outside corners. any recommended methods? (pictures appreciated)


double stud on the outside corner. for a taller wall, at about the center of the wall add blocking in the stud bays that tie the outside corner to the rest of the wall.

a good and strong inside corner consists of.. on one wall put two ganged up studs in with 3 or 4 2x blocks spacing the 2 studs to 4 1/2" ( imagine 3 studs nailed together but the blocks take the place of the middle stud) . 
on the other wall add one stud that nails to the ganged up studs. there will be 1 1/2" for drywall to nail to coming out of the corner of the wall and the other side will have 1" to nail drywall to. 
you can also pre build the inside corner first and then put it into the wall...


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for your response. Do you have any photos showing what you just explained? not sure if I got the picture. also you mentioned using fire blocking foam on the back of top plate?



hand drive said:


> double stud on the outside corner. for a taller wall, at about the center of the wall add blocking in the stud bays that tie the outside corner to the rest of the wall.
> 
> a good and strong inside corner consists of.. on one wall put two ganged up studs in with 3 or 4 2x blocks spacing the 2 studs to 4 1/2" ( imagine 3 studs nailed together but the blocks take the place of the middle stud) .
> on the other wall add one stud that nails to the ganged up studs. there will be 1 1/2" for drywall to nail to coming out of the corner of the wall and the other side will have 1" to nail drywall to.
> you can also pre build the inside corner first and then put it into the wall...


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

In reference to the issue with moving the top plate for level after being nailed.
You could have use a "cats claw" to remove the nails with minimal damage to the plate.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

For inside corners make an L out of 2 studs, the other wall just has an end stud.
or have a 2nd from last stud 4" from the corner.
Here are lots of examples of different styles https://www.google.ca/search?q=wall+corner+framing&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pqRWUIW-K-muiAKx6oDIAQ&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1439&bih=740


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

http://studio-tm.com/constructionbl...asket-between-wood-sill-and-concrete-slab.jpg
this is what I'm referring to as an inside corner. in this case, the right bottom plate extends out. in my case, the left top and bottom plate extends out to right wall line.

http://www.basements101.com/framing2.html
I'll be using this method for the inside corner. Now the question is, my 16" on center would start where in reference to the corner?

http://www.build-home-building-house.com/images/wall09.gif
I'm going to use the first method for my wall. Do I use standard 16" oc for the left frame?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

As you are not putting sheeting on the outside your spacing can start from the inside corner.
First method is good, yes use standard 16"OC spacing


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

kimbhoot said:


> Thanks for your response. Do you have any photos showing what you just explained? not sure if I got the picture. also you mentioned using fire blocking foam on the back of top plate?


you do not want dead air space behind the wall where it meets floors and such. the top plate of the wall seals the top of the wall from the floor joist bays above so you want to seal behind the wall against the top plate so the air space in the wall does not travel up into the joist bays above. 

sorry, do not have a pic for the corner detail. My explanation for the outside corner was actually for the end of the wall, oops- but a double stud that is nailed together on the outside corner works great and is a strong corner. 

for the inside corner, imagine three studs (triple) nailed together and placed in the wall, the thickness of the wall is 3 1/2" and the triple is 4 1/2" . 

found this on google, the fist diagram on the first page is exactly what I'm mentioning and see how they added blocks in the corner to save from using extra studs ...
http://extremehowto.com/a-smart-way-to-frame-a-corner/


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Around here that is considered the worst way, much less insulation then a L corner.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

*Vapor barrier*

Need some advise on vapor barrier. I was advised by the Home Depot project manager that I install the polyethylene on the back of the framing and lift the frame up using plastic shims under the treated floor plate. he said that will allow the vapor (if any) to cycle in and dry. On my first wall, I wasn't able to put plastic shims under as my walls were pretty tight. should I remote the plastic from the back and put them on the front side? I won't be using any insulation. 

please advise on how to correct this wall and proper way on any other walls I'll be building. 

Thanks.


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## ws450r (Dec 29, 2009)

I know it's an extra expense, but I would HIGHLY suggest putting insulation in. My brother finished his basement about an hour and a half north or KC and didn't put any in. That place was fairly cold during weather like we have now. I can only imagine what it would have been like during 0 degree weather if he wouldn't have sold it. If I was finishing a basement, it is something I would definitely put in.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

this last winter wasn't a very cold one but I spent quite a bit of time in the basement without any heating and it didn't feel much cold there. I would definitely consider that once the framing is complete but I'm really trying to address the moisture issue before the framing goes up.

any advise?



ws450r said:


> I know it's an extra expense, but I would HIGHLY suggest putting insulation in. My brother finished his basement about an hour and a half north or KC and didn't put any in. That place was fairly cold during weather like we have now. I can only imagine what it would have been like during 0 degree weather if he wouldn't have sold it. If I was finishing a basement, it is something I would definitely put in.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

No plastic; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0202-basement-insulation-systems

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-103-understanding-basements?full_view=1

Gary


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

GBR in WA,
I see the issues listed on the links. So do I just leave it bare and build my frame and put drywall in? as I mentioned, I'm not putting any insulation. or do you recommend putting insulation between the studs? I've already put one wall up with plastic behind it. what can I do about that?

Thanks again.




GBR in WA said:


> No plastic; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0202-basement-insulation-systems
> 
> http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-103-understanding-basements?full_view=1
> 
> Gary


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## chongololo (Mar 26, 2012)

I think that you should put some insulation in. It's not that much money.
I recently finished my basement and put foam sheets on the concrete wall then framed a 2x4 wall and put insulation in the stud bays.
I'm glad I did, it's already warmer and quieter.
Good luck.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Read those links again, the styrofaom against the wall is key!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The foam board air seals the concrete against summertime condensation, especially above grade. Plastic alone will stop moisture through the concrete but not room air from condensing on it, need foam board. 
Read the last link in post #11, for the best way to stop moisture.

Gary


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

It's hard to tell from your picture, but your bottom plate doesn't appear to be pressure treated lumber. It needs to be.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Interestingly, the builder used regular (untreated) 2x4 to mount the breaker boxes on the concrete wall and everybody says always use PT wherever it touches concrete! This is a reputable builder btw!


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

all bottom plates are treated.



md2lgyk said:


> It's hard to tell from your picture, but your bottom plate doesn't appear to be pressure treated lumber. It needs to be.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Bottom plate, (or any lumber in contact with concrete) doesn't need to be treated if a sill gasket is used underneath (foam gasket the width of the lumber, stapled to underside). Around here anyways.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

If in the U.S. as kimbhoot is, just the bottom plates (on a wall or slab) require p.t., with or without a sill sealer poly; *#3. 

*Any framing touching the concrete wall needs a v.b. or p.t.;* #7;* http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec017.htm

Gary


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

kimbhoot said:


> this last winter wasn't a very cold one but I spent quite a bit of time in the basement without any heating and it didn't feel much cold there. I would definitely consider that once the framing is complete but I'm really trying to address the moisture issue before the framing goes up.
> 
> any advise?



i didn't insulate my basement at first. I just framed walls and screwed the sheetrock (no tape, mud or paint) Then a year or two later i pulled all the sheetrock down and insulated. I was so happy i did. It didn't make a whole lot of difference without any heat, but trying to turn a heater on down there was impossible. It wouldn't heat up. Then after i put insulation up, it warmed up as hot as i wanted it to get. Just throw some r11 in there. Everyone will say you need to fill it as full as possible, r19 or whatever, but r11 retains something like 90% of the heat. Its pretty minimal gains after that


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Framing going good and slow so far. I have about 78 linear feet of wall framed. I'm close to a point where I need to frame a bathroom walls. The initial plan was to make the bathroom 5'x9' but I want to increase the width 2 more foot (7'x9'). but not sure what to put in that extra space. maybe a built-in shelf? any design ideas/suggestions/pro/con to this idea?

Thanks.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

are you putting in a tub? or shower?


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

mae-ling said:


> are you putting in a tub? or shower?


I won't be putting a tub. a standing shower. 
something like this maybe
http://erdexon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Elegant-Bathroom-Shower-1.jpg


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Need a little help with framing around the plumbing.
Please look here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=206Mr1hQygU

There will be a bathroom and on the back wall, I have all the plumbing lines. How would I support the top part? Do I just nail a treated board on the back wall and nail the top part of the frame to it? please advise. also, on the left bathroom wall, you'll notice the frame comes out a bit more because of the big plumbing line. I think it's about 6.5" or 7" from the back wall. what's the recommended method to leave an opening for the drain cleanout opening?

thanks in advance.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

1. frame the short wall coming out past the plumbing, flush with the wall the plumbingis on.
2. Run bottom plate say 1" back from the edge of the pipe, flush with the pipe so drywall will not buldge. or you could box around the plumbing.
3. Stop the top plate before the plumbing at the top.
4. Run a short "top plate from a stud that is near the plumbing onthe bottom, this stud will be shorter to fit under where the plumbing jogs, to your last full length stud which is on the end of the top plate then straight down to the bottom plate.
You may need to add another short stud depending on spacing.
5. That short "top plate will need some bocking back to the concrete wall and be fastened to it. Usually make a T out of treated 2x4 and concrete screw it to the wall, and screw to the side of the last short stud, cut flush with the wall. If it is 1&1/2" just a flat treated 2x4 on wall then toe screw to it (or toe nail).

It looks like your plumbing is over 16" if it is 16 inch or so or less them just stop last stud before it and build the other wall. that jogs out.


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

mae-ling, I read your post a few times and trying to draw a picture in my head but not sure if I'm getting this right!  I'll try to draw something out and post for review/approval.



mae-ling said:


> 1. frame the short wall coming out past the plumbing, flush with the wall the plumbingis on.
> 2. Run bottom plate say 1" back from the edge of the pipe, flush with the pipe so drywall will not buldge. or you could box around the plumbing.
> 3. Stop the top plate before the plumbing at the top.
> 4. Run a short "top plate from a stud that is near the plumbing onthe bottom, this stud will be shorter to fit under where the plumbing jogs, to your last full length stud which is on the end of the top plate then straight down to the bottom plate.
> ...


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

please see the attached image. does this tackle the issue? the plumbing pipes are 4.5" from the concrete wall, so will my framing be so it's flushed with the plumbing. 

Is this a usable solution or do anyone have a better one?


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## kimbhoot (Feb 2, 2012)

Absolutely no response? Either this is a brilliant idea or so bad that nobody even wants to talk to me.


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## funfool (Oct 5, 2012)

Nice project, I am new here, I looked at first post then jumped to page 3 to see last post.
I have not been following it.
I am going to guess that there are no permits on this job, no inspectors....
Let me rephrase, you are the home owner doing the work, is no structural, plumbing is already in, I would not pull a permit. I could be wrong here since I did not read the 3 pages.

I see your goal as trying to create framing to hold drywall, you do want the framing flat with no bumps in it to get around plumbing. 
You want it secure so that sections do not float back and forth.
You do not want to cover any clean outs in the plumbing or at least create access to them.

Often you need to get creative on framing in this situation.
Your diagram is creative, I see weak points in it.
Only issue I see, if it is floppy and does not line up from one end to the other.
Maybe some blocks fastened to the concrete wall, some 2x4 struts coming from the blocks to the framing.
With this you can plumb the wall, pull the weak points in and out before you fasten the struts to hold it rigid.

Again, I apologize for reading your first post and your last. Framing in new construction is straight forward, framing in remodel and in this situation around existing utilities, you have to get creative. Just keep the main goal in mind.
Plumb walls, flat surface, access panels, sofits and chases, you will be fine.


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