# HVAC parts suppliers that will only sell to contractors.



## buckbundy (Dec 24, 2014)

Are there any Diyers in las vegas that might know a few HVAC parts suppliers that will actualy sell to the public? 
I frequently troubleshoot and repair my rooftop air conditioner/heater. I have only been able to find one place that sells to public, called appliance parts center. They are pretty good, but I would like to have a wider range of places I can go for parts. 
I recently had a problem with the heater turning itself on and off constantly. went up on roof, and noticed there was a lot of condensation dripping onto contactors. The insulation was real old and beat up. 
I dried the whole area out with an air compressor, and set out to purchase some insulation for the unit to prevent the problem from re-curring. I also was ready to buy new contactors if the ones I had were damaged. 
I visited several hvac parts places and keep running into this snobby crap about "we only sell to licensed contractors." 
By the way, only 3 weeks earlier I had purchased and installed new contactors. The one shop that would sell them to me sold me a cheap "made in china" brand. while plugging in one of the wires, the wire connector snapped off. They gave me another new part free of charge. I would like to be able to select other brands of parts, maybe spend a bit more for quality parts sometimes. 
I could buy online but then I need to wait for parts while heater or air conditioner is down. 
It just seems really stupid that the parts I need are probably all around me at various shops, but most of the shops simply will not sell to me. I read an older post on here "hvac suppliers are realy stuck up", to discover WHY they dont sell to everyone. Very interesting. One HVAC tech explained that when a person does a repair himself, it takes money out of his pocket. Others explain how it takes too much time to do customer service for people who only buy one or 2 parts. One shop I did visit and got turned down, had 7 counter people. each one was spending a lot of time serving each customer who was only buying one or 2 parts. Those customers were contractors. 
Regardless of the actual real reason they wont sell, I think us DIYERS should all stick together and buy from companies that are not so snobby and stuck up. share info on where to shop. Don't just bend over, and pay a contractor 100 to 150 per hour, and then have him mark up the part you need 400 percent. Like I said earlier, I only know one shop here in vegas that will sell freely. If anyone knows of other shops that sell to home owners I sure would appreciate that. By the way, I wound up insulating the inside of heater blower box, and interior of electronics box with thin rubber mats for tool boxes, and also thick gym mat material. used silicone adhesive and the metallic tape for edges. keeps the metal surfaces from sweating in cold damp weather. I got lucky and the contactors are in good shape and heater is up and running properly. No thanks to the snobby parts suppliers around here.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

buckbundy said:


> Are there any Diyers in las vegas that might know a few HVAC parts suppliers that will actualy sell to the public?


Yeah... that's just silly in this day and age with web shopping at your fingertips. Do yourself a favor and bypass the 'private buyer's club' and shop on the net. They want to lose money and business? Fine.... what ever.

Almost all of my 'restrictive parts' buying is done on the net now. I won't even give our local shops a shot at it anymore. Once upon a time this contractor's only club made sense. Today however, they're only hurting themselves.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

well it was my understanding..the reason alot of suppliers switched to contractors only...many ,many homeowners and handymen were bringing back to many parts that were installed ..and that was not the problem and alot of parts were desrtoyed my lack of troubleshooting because they did not have the proper knowledge to find the actural problem ..JUST PARTS CHANGING....the end result lost of money to the supplier...Iam all for quilified people doing there own work to save money..we all do it right...just finished a small project...I did the fireplace ..brick, wood work, paint, wood flooring..I saved alot of money.....so if you want to buy at local shops and you are quilified to do so fill out the proper paper work same as any other business and have the needed certifications to do so..I had to become certified to but certian products.need to be certified to install gas products,,need to be certified to purchase heating and a/c products,carry the proper license and insurance to offer quality work that carries warranty and is acceptable to all inspections to pass code...that all cost money.... alot of it ... just saying...Ihave to spend money to make money


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## oldbikes (Sep 5, 2014)

I don't blame anyone doing diy hvac, in most cases they are just trying to save a few dollars.The problem is that a wholesaler don't know the skill level of the person who wants to purchase the parts.

When flexible gas piping first came on the market we were required to a training seminar on the proper way to install the product and pass a test to purchase the product, now most big box stores sell it to anyone with a credit card.

A lot of products require licenses and proof of insurance to purchase. Also along with liability issues is the reason to limit sales to a certain customer base. Suppose someone purchases an item and destroys a home or even worse a life it is entirely possible that a lawsuit will follow.

This also creates a problem for a legitimate contractor, if we work on a brand of equipment that is not handled by our suppliers it is sometimes a real hassle to buy a part wholesale.
For a wholesaler it's easier to say no to everything than mark some items contractor only and have other things in the shop that a person off the street can purchase.

Perhaps you can come up with a simple solution to the problem??


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Wholesale vs Retail...I'm not sure why someone that will walk through the door maybe once or twice in a lifetime should get the same deal as a daily customer (the contractor).


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## hvac instructor (Jun 8, 2012)

As mention earlier, the homeowner is just changing parts. if it still does nor work they want to take the part back and exchange for another part.
I was at the counter at a wholesale supplier and the counter guy was on the phone talking to a person who wanted to return a blower motor after he hooked it up wrong and shorted it out. The counter guy said it's not under warranty when it is wired wrong. There was a supplier where I live who sold to the public. They sold HVAC, plumbing and electrical. When I and other HVAC contractors gave a quote for an install, the customer would always say why so much when they can go to said supply house and buy it for this much. Supply house lost a lot of contractor business and had to quit selling to the public.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

As a contractor. I can't buy the part from the vender that sells the part to the HVAC wholesale supply house that won't sell you the part.

Now picture this. A local supply house to you decides to start selling to you and any other DIYers. Their largest customer that buys 2 million a year in equipment parts and material finds out. Calls them up and says. Since your hurting my business, I'll take my business else where. And does so. 

Now not only did they lose 2 million a year in sales to that big company. They also now pay more for the equipment and parts, as their volume has dropped off. And they lost some of the discount price they got for their volume. So many supply houses won't sell to you for fear of losing their large accounts. Pretty much the same as GM, Ford, etc won't directly sell you a new car. You have to go through a dealer, or broker.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

anyone remember when home depot sold furnaces...it did not last long did it .know why i do ..a person they sold a furnace too ..burnt has house down sued....and won...no more selling furnaces...people want to save a buck and that is fine...but if you hurt yourself or your family in the process due to lack of knowledge or safety is it worth it . another reason suppliers sell to only contractors they too were sued from people lacking the ability to perform the work and really know the part they are working with..


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

A contractor can use the same scenario- instead of DIYer and supplier, let's call it contractor and distributor.
I have gone to my plumbing wholesaler- paid for a sink, then drove 10 blocks to the distributor and picked it up. Why can't I buy directly from the distributor?
Because that's not how it works- but it's changing because of the big stores buying power....


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> many ,many homeowners and handymen were bringing back to many parts that were installed ..and that was not the problem and alot of parts were desrtoyed my lack of troubleshooting because they did not have the proper knowledge to find the actural problem ..JUST PARTS CHANGING....the end result lost of money to the supplier...


Nah. I don't buy that. A couple of signs on the front door:
"all sales final" or 
"35% restocking fee". 
Many retailers do it for exactly your reasoning.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

kwikfishron said:


> Wholesale vs Retail...I'm not sure why someone that will walk through the door maybe once or twice in a lifetime should get the same deal as a daily customer (the contractor).


Who said retail buyers are looking for the same deal?

When I shop for my company I use the company account and get the wholesale deal. When I shop for myself (in the same store) I pay regular retail price.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

hvac instructor said:


> As mention earlier, the homeowner is just changing parts.


As mentioned earlier, a "35% restocking fee" will fix that up.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> anyone remember when home depot sold furnaces...it did not last long did it .know why i do ..a person they sold a furnace too ..burnt has house down sued....and won...no more selling furnaces...people want to save a buck and that is fine...but if you hurt yourself or your family in the process due to lack of knowledge or safety is it worth it . another reason suppliers sell to only contractors they too were sued from people lacking the ability to perform the work and really know the part they are working with..


That logic is flawed.

Home depot sells breakers, panels, wiring... all sorts of stuff which requires a license to install.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

beenthere said:


> Now picture this. A local supply house to you decides to start selling to you and any other DIYers. Their largest customer that buys 2 million a year in equipment parts and material finds out. Calls them up and says. Since your hurting my business, I'll take my business else where. And does so.


You just hit the nail on the head.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

not all places require a license....but I went to lowes about 6 months back ..wanted to repair a gas line some guy did..diyer..purchased some of there gas tite tubing...to my surprise at the register they needed to see my gas card to purchase that product....when i ask why she just said ..liability reasons...:yes:


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> That logic is flawed.
> 
> Home depot sells breakers, panels, wiring... all sorts of stuff which requires a license to install.


 well say what you want..its true...and they no longer sell furnaces..do they... alot of places do not require license to work on electrial services....as long as it is inspected for saftey....most diyers don't get that work inspected.. we only find it at a home inspection which come to light and then needs repaired properly to sale the home ..


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Bob Sanders said:


> That logic is flawed.
> 
> Home depot sells breakers, panels, wiring... all sorts of stuff which requires a license to install.


No, a homeowner can install this in my state and several others as well


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## Jnaas2 (Mar 29, 2014)

In My area a homeowner can do all the work on there house they want to just need to pull permits and pass inspections.


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## buckbundy (Dec 24, 2014)

beenthere said:


> As a contractor. I can't buy the part from the vender that sells the part to the HVAC wholesale supply house that won't sell you the part.
> 
> Now picture this. A local supply house to you decides to start selling to you and any other DIYers. Their largest customer that buys 2 million a year in equipment parts and material finds out. Calls them up and says. Since your hurting my business, I'll take my business else where. And does so.
> 
> Now not only did they lose 2 million a year in sales to that big company. They also now pay more for the equipment and parts, as their volume has dropped off. And they lost some of the discount price they got for their volume. So many supply houses won't sell to you for fear of losing their large accounts. Pretty much the same as GM, Ford, etc won't directly sell you a new car. You have to go through a dealer, or broker.


 Yeah, but Las vegas is a huge marketplace. The one company that does sell freely to public is making money hand over fist. They do also seem to be selling to a lot of licensed contractors also. The above scenario does not seem to apply to las vegas, because this store has been doing this for many many years successfully. Some contractors dont like it but that is just too bad. There are over 2 million people here in vegas. That is a lot of home owners. That is a lot of people actively looking for a reasonable deal on things. Surely the marketplace has some room for guys wanting to do things themselves. I am sure there are other shops selling freely, just wanted to know who they are. I came across quite a few plumbing stores that sell freely to public. I found a lot of other trades where they sell freely to the public, such as lumber yards, concrete and masonry supply stores, etc. I have only run into this stuff for the HVAC related parts.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> well say what you want..its true...and they no longer sell furnaces..do they... alot of places do not require license to work on electrial services....as long as it is inspected for saftey....most diyers don't get that work inspected.. we only find it at a home inspection which come to light and then needs repaired properly to sale the home ..


Home depot could be getting out of the furnace trade for many different reasons.... why is anybody's *guess*... and I suggest that's what you're doing right now.

A lot of places don't require (most) of the furnace work to be done by a pro either. I bought my old gas furnace from Happy Harry's used Building supply (before I went electric) and installed it myself. The only thing that I was not allowed to install myself was the gas line. When the gas company inspected my work prior to turning the gas on the only official stamp they wanted to see was the gas fitter's stamp on the gas line.

As for Home depot not selling furnaces anymore, I'm not sure that's true. They certainly had a few on display when I was there today.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

TheEplumber said:


> No, a homeowner can install this in my state and several others as well


A home owner can install a furnace too... so what's you're point?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Bob Sanders said:


> A home owner can install a furnace too... so what's you're point?


My point was that you said it requires a license to install the electrical material you listed.
I am simply saying that in my area a license is not needed for a home owner to purchase or install them.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

buckbundy said:


> Yeah, but Las vegas is a huge marketplace. The one company that does sell freely to public is making money hand over fist. They do also seem to be selling to a lot of licensed contractors also. The above scenario does not seem to apply to las vegas, because this store has been doing this for many many years successfully. Some contractors dont like it but that is just too bad. There are over 2 million people here in vegas. That is a lot of home owners. .


Applies in just about any area. 

LV is no different. 20 HVAC supply houses(More then that, but just a number I picked). 1 may have higher prices, and doesn't get too many if any of the larger job bids($750,000.00 plus) to HVAC companies, so figures they have nothing to lose by selling to the public.

Wish you luck in finding another place or 2.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

TheEplumber said:


> My point was that you said it requires a license to install the electrical material you listed.


Sorry, you're correct. My wording was wrong. It requires inspection, but then again it's the same with a furnace. My furnace required a mere inspection before the gas was allowed to be turned on. Again, the only thing which required a license was the install and connection of the gas line.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Ok, my two cents-
Supply houses did sell to the public around here, up until around 2005. A couple things happened. 
First, one supply house was having an influx of used parts being returned in re sealed boxes. They didn't reopen the box and check when doing the return. Basically homeowners were trying to fix their stuff for free. I myself was the recipient of several of these parts, and I saw where the parts were tracked back too. It was always some homeowner that came in a couple times a year. 
Second, there was a series of accidents from DIY repair attempts. One guy blew up his boiler, I'm not sure what he did to it to make that happen. He tried to sue but that got slapped down when the inspector found he'd put a shutoff valve on his relief valve. 
Third, there was again an influx of returns from homeowners throwing parts at equipment, then finding out that wasn't it and trying the next thing. 
All this led to large stop signs posted on the doors of supply houses informing homeowners that no parts or advice will be givin.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> Home depot could be getting out of the furnace trade for many different reasons.... why is anybody's *guess*... and I suggest that's what you're doing right now.
> 
> A lot of places don't require (most) of the furnace work to be done by a pro either. I bought my old gas furnace from Happy Harry's used Building supply (before I went electric) and installed it myself. The only thing that I was not allowed to install myself was the gas line. When the gas company inspected my work prior to turning the gas on the only official stamp they wanted to see was the gas fitter's stamp on the gas line.
> 
> As for Home depot not selling furnaces anymore, I'm not sure that's true. They certainly had a few on display when I was there today.


 only furnaces I have seen on display at home depot was being offered by a hvac company as a promo advertisement...go back and check to see if its h d offering the furnace or if a hvac company is behind the offer...would like to know...thanks.. oh by the way..the furnace that hd sold a customer that caught fire some yrs back was a news clipping posted at a jonhstone supply information board if my memory serves me right.. I was not guessing just restating the paper..is it true that will have to be taken up with the news company that wrote it...:yes:


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

buckbundy said:


> Yeah, but Las vegas is a huge marketplace. The one company that does sell freely to public is making money hand over fist. They do also seem to be selling to a lot of licensed contractors also. The above scenario does not seem to apply to las vegas, because this store has been doing this for many many years successfully. Some contractors dont like it but that is just too bad. There are over 2 million people here in vegas. That is a lot of home owners. That is a lot of people actively looking for a reasonable deal on things. Surely the marketplace has some room for guys wanting to do things themselves. I am sure there are other shops selling freely, just wanted to know who they are. I came across quite a few plumbing stores that sell freely to public. I found a lot of other trades where they sell freely to the public, such as lumber yards, concrete and masonry supply stores, etc. I have only run into this stuff for the HVAC related parts.


 the only reason you have this trouble in this trade.......if you don't know what your doing ...people get hurt, and people could die..hope you can find the places your looking for... hope you also know your own limitations be careful out there..


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> I was not guessing just restating the paper..is it true that will have to be taken up with the news company that wrote it...:yes:


So, by your logic if a home owner buys a breaker panel from HD and completely screws up the install and the house catches fire, they can sue and win?

Granted, I should be careful delving into that neck of the woods (for the USA anyway). If someone can successfully sue Mcdonald's for getting burned when they spill a cup of Mcdonald's coffee in their lap... well anything can goes. Suing is a friggin' booming business in the USA.

You're totally guessing as to why they're (possibly) not selling furnaces anymore. Maybe because they're too tired of dealing with all the customer complaints after hap-hazard installs.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> if you don't know what your doing ...people get hurt, and people could die..hope you can find the places your looking for... hope you also know your own limitations be careful out there..


Just as true for electrical.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bob Sanders said:


> Granted, I should be careful delving into that neck of the woods (for the USA anyway). If someone can successfully sue Mcdonald's for getting burned when they spill a cup of Mcdonald's coffee in their lap... well anything can goes. Suing is a friggin' booming business in the USA.


She didn't win that case because she spilled coffee on herself, per say.
She won because McDonald had received several hundred complaints about their coffee being to hot, and burning people. And even paid settlements to some of those people. But never did anything about it reducing the temp of the coffee. And when she offered to accept on 20 grand for lost wages and medical treatment, McDonalds only offered 800 bucks.

While the jury awarded her several million, a judge reduced the amount. She never received it. She and Mcdonalds reached an agreement and she settled for a lesser amount to keep from being in court for years to come on the case.

A supply house could face the same problem, and they wouldn't have the lawyer force or money that McDonalds had. Remember, liability insurance is only a buffer, you can be sued for and lose more then what you have insurance for.

Not saying that is the reason all supply houses have.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> So, by your logic if a home owner buys a breaker panel from HD and completely screws up the install and the house catches fire, they can sue and win?
> 
> Granted, I should be careful delving into that neck of the woods (for the USA anyway). If someone can successfully sue Mcdonald's for getting burned when they spill a cup of Mcdonald's coffee in their lap... well anything can goes. Suing is a friggin' booming business in the USA.
> 
> You're totally guessing as to why they're (possibly) not selling furnaces anymore. Maybe because they're too tired of dealing with all the customer complaints after hap-hazard installs.


 no not guessing story went on to say hd was going to rethink the sale of such an item to general public due to the enormous complications that can develope....they are right ..you must be trained to install a furnace and SET IT UP FOR PROPER OPERATION ..I don't want to start talking about land differances I totally respect canada but there are things there i don't agree with as well..non the less I keep them to myself because iam in no position to judge your government or vote to change it..we just abide by the laws when there..:thumbsup:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

If home depot has stopped selling furnaces then how come they're still listing them? Granted you can only buy on line now (in the USA and they will not ship to some states)... but you can still get them just fine:
(they ship to your door or to the nearest store for you)


> *Product Sold : *
> 
> Online Only
> Item cannot be shipped to the following state(s): AK,GU,HI,PR,VI
> ...


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Winchest...Gas-Furnace-W9V080-317/202771092?N=5yc1vZc4lk


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> If home depot has stopped selling furnaces then how come they're still listing them? Granted you can only buy on line now (in the USA and they will not ship to some states)... but you can still get them just fine:
> (they ship to your door or to the nearest store for you)
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Winchest...Gas-Furnace-W9V080-317/202771092?N=5yc1vZc4lk


 yep your right ...don't see them in the store like we use too on the shelf....so i guess they did rethink how to continue to sale with less liability on line... .see in the addvertisement how they pass off the liability to the buyer.....thanks I don't shop on line never did ...don't think i ever will..sorry if i misled you... ben sr


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ben's plumbing said:


> yep your right ...don't see them in the store like we use too on the shelf....so i guess they did rethink how to continue to sale with less liability on line...


Nah. It's not the liability.
It's the simple fact that local laws are not universally the same all over. It therefore becomes difficult to catalog and stock these types of items in a store that sells continent wide. It's much easier to sell/ship these items on line so they can abide by the local laws much easier.


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## sparky90 (Aug 1, 2014)

We have a plumbing/heating/HVAC place near by that caters to the DIY'er. They advertise in the local penny savers in the area. They have super deals offered to the public on boilers, furnaces, air handlers, AC units and all the parts and fittings you need. They say take a photo of your present installation and bring it with you. They will look at the photo and will sell you everything you need to install a new boiler in the place of the old one. Same for any other installation. Hot water heaters, and the list goes on. They also sell to contractors also. They recommend certain contractors that will install the stuff you buy at a discount. The contractors don't mind it because they pick up a lot of work from them when someone does not want to do the installation but wants to save on the equipment. They are very helpful and have coffee and doughnuts there for you while they pull together an entire install for you. Granted, they are not right around the corner and I have to drive a half hour to get there but it's worth it. This place is SUPER busy and friendly. If I buy an AC unit they have it non charged with Freon so I still need to hire someone to charge it up. They have people they recommend to charge up a system you install. Of course I am sure the person charging up the system will check it out first. But the point is everyone gets along and everybody makes and saves money. They are the only place like it around here. BTW.... We do have one of those snobby places that won't sell to the public. When you go there and to the other place you'll see a hbig difference in traffic. Guess who is making the bucks?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

sparky90 said:


> We have a plumbing/heating/HVAC place near by that caters to the DIY'er. They advertise in the local penny savers in the area. They have super deals offered to the public on boilers, furnaces, air handlers, AC units and all the parts and fittings you need. They say take a photo of your present installation and bring it with you. They will look at the photo and will sell you everything you need to install a new boiler in the place of the old one. Same for any other installation. Hot water heaters, and the list goes on. They also sell to contractors also. They recommend certain contractors that will install the stuff you buy at a discount. The contractors don't mind it because they pick up a lot of work from them when someone does not want to do the installation but wants to save on the equipment. They are very helpful and have coffee and doughnuts there for you while they pull together an entire install for you. Granted, they are not right around the corner and I have to drive a half hour to get there but it's worth it. This place is SUPER busy and friendly. If I buy an AC unit they have it non charged with Freon so I still need to hire someone to charge it up. They have people they recommend to charge up a system you install. Of course I am sure the person charging up the system will check it out first. But the point is everyone gets along and everybody makes and saves money. They are the only place like it around here. BTW.... We do have one of those snobby places that won't sell to the public. When you go there and to the other place you'll see a hbig difference in traffic. Guess who is making the bucks?


The place that is snobby, as you put it.

What you don't see, is the deliveries they are making to contractors shops, or job sites. 

Got 1 local place here that started out as a 1 location supply house. Doesn't sell to the public. Now has 4 locations, and each location has at least 4 delivery trucks, which are out making lots of deliveries everyday the place is open. I have never gone into any of their locations that was swamped with people at the counter. Mostly because their will call is used so much. Contractors are in and out in just a few minutes, not standing there for 10 to 20 minutes waiting for a counter guy.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

sparky90 said:


> We have a plumbing/heating/HVAC place near by that caters to the DIY'er. They advertise in the local penny savers in the area. They have super deals offered to the public on boilers, furnaces, air handlers, AC units and all the parts and fittings you need. They say take a photo of your present installation and bring it with you. They will look at the photo and will sell you everything you need to install a new boiler in the place of the old one. Same for any other installation. Hot water heaters, and the list goes on. They also sell to contractors also. They recommend certain contractors that will install the stuff you buy at a discount. The contractors don't mind it because they pick up a lot of work from them when someone does not want to do the installation but wants to save on the equipment. They are very helpful and have coffee and doughnuts there for you while they pull together an entire install for you. Granted, they are not right around the corner and I have to drive a half hour to get there but it's worth it. This place is SUPER busy and friendly. If I buy an AC unit they have it non charged with Freon so I still need to hire someone to charge it up. They have people they recommend to charge up a system you install. Of course I am sure the person charging up the system will check it out first. But the point is everyone gets along and everybody makes and saves money. They are the only place like it around here. BTW.... We do have one of those snobby places that won't sell to the public. When you go there and to the other place you'll see a hbig difference in traffic. Guess who is making the bucks?


Sounds like a win win situation! :thumbsup: Plumbing used to be fairly closed off to the public until big box and the internet.

The few times I have gone into "those snobby places" I get the same awkward feeling as trying to mingle in the pro HVAC internet forums. Elite us vs. them and totally convinced that DIYers are gonna take their jobs away.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Nobody's worried about taking jobs away, they don't want to get into a liability situation when someone injures or kills themselves with improper install or repair work. 
And before it anyone calls bs on that, consider the fact that most of my electric suppliers are no longer allowed to give me, a professional with years of experiance, any kind of advise on purchases, like wire size or disconnect selection. Why? Liability. 
Now, the above post on DIY suppliers. If you only "take a picture and they give you what you need", how is equipment and duct sizing being done? How is the equipment warranty? Who signs off on the commissioning report once the equipment is first fired up?


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

roughneck said:


> he fact that most of my electric suppliers are no longer allowed to give me, a professional with years of experiance, any kind of advise on purchases, like wire size or disconnect selection. Why? Liability.


I can well understand the idea of giving advice to people being a liability issue, but selling merchandise to people? No. There's no liability there. Now it may be a law in a person's jurisdiction preventing the retail sale of some items, but a store can't be held liable for selling you merchandise. That's crazy.

Home depot sells complete furnace packages on line to anyone (where the law allows). Now they do have their ground covered by suggesting it's best to have a professional install and they follow that up with clear disclaimer on not accepting any liability should YOU screw up... but the mere sale of furnaces on line clearly indicates they're not worried about liability issues in the least.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> I can well understand the idea of giving advice to people being a liability issue, but selling merchandise to people? No. There's no liability there. Now it may be a law in a person's jurisdiction preventing the retail sale of some items, but a store can't be held liable for selling you merchandise. That's crazy.
> 
> Home depot sells complete furnace packages on line to anyone (where the law allows). Now they do have their ground covered by suggesting it's best to have a professional install and they follow that up with clear disclaimer on not accepting any liability should YOU screw up... but the mere sale of furnaces on line clearly indicates they're not worried about liability issues in the least.


As I've said before, it's all a sale to the parts companies. Most all of them did sell to whomever walked in the door when I first got into the trade. They stopped because of accidents, and constantly getting asked technical questions, and constantly getting good parts returned because of parts changing homeowners guessing at what would fix the equipment. 
I spoke to a lot of the branch managers about it when the signs first went up. 
The manager of the local RE Michel said one homeowner cut his entire expansion tank out of his hydronic system and brought it in because his boiler wouldn't heat. 
None of them, nor did any other contractor, site loosing sales as a reason for it. 
Honestly I could care less if you install or fix stuff yourself. In fact, I've made my companies the most money on DIY projects after someone has made a complete abortion out of their equipment and wound up calling me to fix it correctly.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

roughneck said:


> They stopped because of accidents, and constantly getting asked technical questions, and constantly getting good parts returned because of parts changing homeowners guessing at what would fix the equipment.


Really?
I'm finding it quite the opposite. All these parts supply stores used to be pretty closed off to the public. The telecommunications stores, the appliance stores, the electrical stores... etc all used to be more or less contractor only. Today most of these places now have both a contractor desk and a retail desk and indeed some have even gotten rid of this separate desk concept and combined it all. It's almost like the hvac industry is the last hold out for this change. The others have fallen in line and are now catering to the public. I'm thinking back at when the change started to occur and I believe it started to change as internet shopping was born.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Around 2005 was when it fully took effect. I got into the trade in 2001. Most have big red stop signs on the door to stop Joe Homeowner from walking in the door, though that rarely stops them all. 
The one place that still sells to some of the general public, providing you have an account to put it under, is plagued by those not only seeking parts, but also seeking technical advice on what's wrong, and how to fix it. 
One example comes to mind, I walked in and they had a guy at the counter saying his condenser fan wasn't running ("compressor fan" as he phrased it). He didn't have a meter, so he couldn't diagnose it. Then he became upset when the manager told him he could not return the motor if it didn't fix the problem. Then he claimed the motor was wrong because his motor was 3 wire and the new one was 4. When it was explained that this motor would work with a few wiring changes, and the store didn't stock this motor in a 3 wire configuration, he wanted step by step instruction on said wiring changes. He actually wanted to call the store when he got back home so they could walk him through it. 
Now I know some of these guys personally, and they are nice people, but a lot of counter guys have little field experiance. Perhaps none at all.
Wouldn't you grow tired of dealing with this kind of stuff after a while? I know I would.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

roughneck said:


> And before it anyone calls bs on that, consider the fact that most of my electric suppliers are no longer allowed to give me, a professional with years of experiance, any kind of advise on purchases, like wire size or disconnect selection. Why? Liability.


I don't agree, liability is just the easiest excuse for people to swallow. It's smart business and the companies don't even want counter people giving advice to electricians. Think of the problems that it could cause if an electrician, especially from a large customer, were to buy and install on the counter guys recommendation and it all had to be ripped out and reinstalled because it didn't pass inspection. The counter person could end up loosing their job and the electrical supplier might loose a big customer.

Now a slightly off topic story which supports the supply house side of the discussion. I bought an A/C compressor for my car earlier this year from one of the big chain stores. Nice brand new box that looked sealed from the factory. I decided to open it up in the store to make sure it was the correct one, and inside was a grungy oily locked up compressor. Obviously someone got a free compressor and perfectly boxed their old one up for a return. I wonder how much screaming and yelling I would have to do trying to return it the next day or whenever I happened to open it. :furious:

The problem with returns and technical help is easy to fix. No returns unless you have an account and are in the HVAC business.


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

That was the exact thing that I had happen to me. I'd buy something, go out to the customer, open up the box and found a used, broken part. 
Very embarrassing.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I ALWAYS open the box and check the part. If it is a ventor fan I spin it to see if it is off balance. If so back it goes. Even with new parts it happens.

People can be disgusting. I buy a new Craftsman table saw. Go to open the box and look and it is full of sawdust and filthy. Some arezehole used it and returned it. Saved him some $$ not having to rent one from HDepot for the weekend.


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## rollandelliott (Jul 24, 2012)

you just have to call around johnson supply in charlotte, nc sells me stuff, however same company 30 minutes away in rock hill sc, wont' sell to me.


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