# Does seamless gutter need a drip edge?



## mikemark8808 (Aug 27, 2015)

The problem lies within your roofer. He did not install a drip edge. This is a big no-no. When you install a drip edge, it goes UNDER your roofing felt, so that if any water goes under your shingles (and some will eventually), it will still be carried by the underlayment all the way to the gutter.

The second point of the drip edge is to prevent water from wicking back to your facia board or in between the gutter and facia board. The pictures you have shown me do not lead me to believe that this is a strong system they are using to make these things happen. Water can easily come beneath those shingles if wind pushes your shingles up, then you will have drips.


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## Jessy156 (Aug 17, 2015)

It really doesn't look incredibly professional. Did you check the roofer's license and insurance? I'd probably ask another roofer for a free inspection.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No way is that going to work!
That gutter needs to come off, drip edge installed, unbend that top piece on the gutter so it can be slid in under the drip edge.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If the fascia is wood it needs a drip edge but I estimate that 100 percent of drip edges are installed wrong by them being tight to the fascia.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

The only way I see that plan being livable would have been if the gutters were installed first AND that bend conformed near perfectly to the roof pitch AND the gutters still had positive flow toward outlets AND you still had that 1" shingle overhang AND you don't like in snow and ice country. Even then its rather unusual and a conventional drip edge with gutters tucking under is preferred. 

I would retrofit a drip edge, cut off that stupid top on the gutters and reinstall them.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

Actually, gutter apron is the correct thing to use along the gutter boards. "Drip edge" is a term used generically a lot of the time where you would use gutter apron. There is a product called drip edge, which should be used on gable ends or rake edges and gutter apron along gutter edges or eaves.

As for that mess you're left with.... personally, I feel it should be re-done correctly. You are destined for trouble the way that is right now....


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Maybe its a regional thing but hardly anybody uses gutter apron at the eves around here. 90% plus of the time its a t style drip edge. In fact around here a gutter apron is often associated with hack work.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

craig11152 said:


> Maybe its a regional thing but hardly anybody uses gutter apron at the eves around here. 90% plus of the time its a t style drip edge. In fact around here a gutter apron is often associated with hack work.


SERIOUSLY?!? A Gutter apron lays flatter because it's more closely following the slope of the roof. A "D" Style *drip edge* (what it's called around here - don't know what "T" style is) has a 90 degree bend. When you try and use it along the gutter board, that's not a 90 degree bend between the gutter board and roof, so it gets all skewed out of shape. 

The bend in a *gutter apron* is closer to 130 degrees which is a LOT more or closer to the actual angle between the pitch of the roof deck and the vertical gutter board. So, it lays nice and flat along the eave edge. I use the 90 degree bend *drip edge* along the gable ends where it *IS* 90 degrees between the roof deck and fascia board.

You might be right about a regional thing. I've had storm chasers come in and need educated on gutter apron. They just used drip edge everywhere. But, their edges were always screwed up along the gutter boards, so I always made them remove them and do them right.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

CompleteW&D said:


> SERIOUSLY?!? A Gutter apron lays flatter because it's more closely following the slope of the roof. A "D" Style *drip edge* (what it's called around here - don't know what "T" style is) has a 90 degree bend. When you try and use it along the gutter board, that's not a 90 degree bend between the gutter board and roof, so it gets all skewed out of shape.
> 
> The bend in a *gutter apron* is closer to 130 degrees which is a LOT more or closer to the actual angle between the pitch of the roof deck and the vertical gutter board. So, it lays nice and flat along the eave edge. I use the 90 degree bend *drip edge* along the gable ends where it *IS* 90 degrees between the roof deck and fascia board.
> 
> You might be right about a regional thing. I've had storm chasers come in and need educated on gutter apron. They just used drip edge everywhere. But, their edges were always screwed up along the gutter boards, so I always made them remove them and do them right.


I find the edge you call "D" style works fine with no modification on 3-5/12 pitch. maybe at 6/12 and above I just flare it to match the pitch. It takes me 8-10 seconds to do a 10 foot piece. On a 50 foot run I waste less than 1 minute modifying it. Its what we do around here.


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## Hamhound (Nov 9, 2015)

All the fine responses are truly appreciated. I trust the roofer but have concerns about the unseen subcontracted gutter installer. 
The roof was fully complete before the gutter was started. We had hot weather during the week I waited for the gutters and the asphalt may have 'glued' together and was pealed up to get the gutter up and under, though it is less than an inch.
I am in California and have no snow or ice to worry about. It rains a lot, 30-50 in normal years and have hit 100 in a soggy year. I do not know the pitch but I can stand on it and there is no chance to slip since it is not steep. Guess I will ask the roofer by for his opinion of what his sub did. See if he agrees and if not, why not.
Thanks again and I will report back. I have not paid a cent yet on this 3000 ft new roof.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

You just said you trust the roofer but not the gutter guy, so why wouldn't the roofer get paid for his portion when withholding payment for the gutter work?


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

craig11152 said:


> I find the edge you call "D" style works fine with no modification on 3-5/12 pitch. maybe at 6/12 and above I just flare it to match the pitch. It takes me 8-10 seconds to do a 10 foot piece. On a 50 foot run I waste less than 1 minute modifying it. Its what we do around here.


Yup.... on a low slope it doesn't take much. But, when doing 8/12+ it makes it a lot nicer IMHO, when you want a nice clean, flat edge. I suppose it's all what you're used to doing.


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## Hamhound (Nov 9, 2015)

ParagonEx said:


> You just said you trust the roofer but not the gutter guy, so why wouldn't the roofer get paid for his portion when withholding payment for the gutter work?


I am not holding back the roof job payment. He chose and paid the gutter contractor and I offered to pay the roof and work out the gutter later. 
He says that the 'gutter lip' is standard and that anything more is an adder. He will get the lip in a better shape to lay the shingle flatter on the deck/underlayment. If the lip were going back a couple of inches I would feel better but this is how he does them.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If I was the GC and I saw what that gutter sub had done no way would I have paid him until it was fixed.
Does not matter what he thinks, how he always does it, it's still completely wrong!!!


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

I had my roof done this summer and in all the research I did and houses I looked at, I never saw a setup like that. Seems...odd. As mentioned, around here (frozen north country), that would last about half a winter before some bad things began to happen. I understand your situation and location is different, but that still seems weird. 

I guess I can see a few possible upsides to it, but a conventional drip edge/gutter install would still look and function better overall. In my opinion.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Hamhound said:


> I am not holding back the roof job payment. He chose and paid the gutter contractor and I offered to pay the roof and work out the gutter later.
> He says that the 'gutter lip' is standard and that anything more is an adder. He will get the lip in a better shape to lay the shingle flatter on the deck/underlayment. If the lip were going back a couple of inches I would feel better but this is how he does them.


Understood. The gutter is not correct. I've never seen the backside of the gutter bent like that, a gutter apron should've been installed.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

If they were going to bend the back of a gutter like that, I wish they would have had the decency to use a brake or at least a simple bending board and a couple of C-clamps.


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