# help me put an egress in this wall please



## dwcopple (Apr 1, 2012)

I am going to have the west wall of my house excavated to deal with some drainage issues and waterproofing. While the soil is away I want to put in an egress window as we plan on adding a bedroom down there in the very near future. From the look of the block, there had to have been a window there at some point already. Oh well. My question is, since this wall runs parallel to the floor joists, do I need a header still or can I just frame the window opening with 2x8's up to the rim joist as seen in this article: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/improvement/1275596

I am aware that here in MI the bottom sill can be no more than 44" from the finished floor and total area must be 5.7 sq ft. The clear opening width must be 20" and the window height must be at least 24". What size window would you recommend in a casement style that will be easiest to fit considering the block layout? I was thinking 28x40something. Here is a pic of the wall where it will be going.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

hard to say whether or not you need a header without seeing the rest of the structure above. Point loading, etc. could cause need for one.

As for window size, the width should be in a nominal 4" increment to match with the block coursing and the height should be in a nominal 8" incerement to match with the block coursing. You're going to want to rake out the grout joints and tooth in the half blocks for the best approach. Saw-cutting will leave open cores exposed which will be hard to air seal.


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## dwcopple (Apr 1, 2012)

AGWhitehouse said:


> hard to say whether or not you need a header without seeing the rest of the structure above. Point loading, etc. could cause need for one.
> 
> As for window size, the width should be in a nominal 4" increment to match with the block coursing and the height should be in a nominal 8" incerement to match with the block coursing. You're going to want to rake out the grout joints and tooth in the half blocks for the best approach. Saw-cutting will leave open cores exposed which will be hard to air seal.


it is a one-story ranch with the master bedroom above this wall. I have no idea what point loading means.

block coursing?:confused1:
tooth in?:huh:


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

That looks like an exterior wall. If it is, then the wall is supporting the sill beam above it. In that case, you need a lintel (typically iron or steel angle) sized appropriately for the opening and load. Nothing complex about installing a lintel, check with your building inspector for the code your Town uses, and size the lintel appropriately. You may need temporary support of the sill beam while you install the lintel, that would depend on the existing load and the opening.


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

*Point loading* is if there is a column or other means of carrying a concentrated structural load to a single point on the sill plate.

*Block coursing* is the standard unit size of the masonry. For you it looks like a 8"x8"x16" block. So your block coursing is generally in multiples of 8" horizontally and 8" vertically.

*Toothing in* is a term used to describe the finishing of retrofitted masonry opening. If you remove only the blocks that protrude into the opening area then you'll be left with jambs that look like a zipper. The act of toothin in is placing 1/2 blocks (8"x8"x8") into the voids of the "zipper" to make the jamb a straight vertical plane. Here's a picture of a toothed edge: http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S014102961000341X-gr1.jpg


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## dwcopple (Apr 1, 2012)

Daniel Holzman said:


> That looks like an exterior wall. If it is, then the wall is supporting the sill beam above it. In that case, you need a lintel (typically iron or steel angle) sized appropriately for the opening and load. Nothing complex about installing a lintel, check with your building inspector for the code your Town uses, and size the lintel appropriately. You may need temporary support of the sill beam while you install the lintel, that would depend on the existing load and the opening.


seriously? that seems extreme for a 32" opening. why don't the 32x18 windows have that then?


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

dwcopple said:


> why don't the 32x18 windows have that then?


Typically the rim joist and sill plate combined act as a pseudo header for most basement windows. If the openings get any larger, then an actual header will need to be provided. It's likely you won't have the head room above the window to be worrying about steel lintels and masonry, so you'll likely be looking at a typical wood frame window with king stud, jack stud, and header assembly.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Did you take one of your windows apart to look at the support above? It is pretty typical for windows, even relatively small ones, to have either a header (if wood frame construction) or a lintel (if masonry or brick) above. Certainly the window frame is not going to support load above it. If you have a double top plate above, and the plate is lightly loaded, and the span is small, I suppose you could get away without a header, but I would check first with the building inspector.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Start out with finding an egress window that suits your need and make sure it has the "egress" sticker on it and leave it thereuntil the inspector approves the final installation and then save the approval in case you go to sell. It is valuable, but the basement room can be classified as a bedroom, increasing the living area and the $ value for anyone trying to get a mortgage.

Be aware that the requirements for egress windows address the CLEAR opening width and height available without removing hardware since you could not expect a child or a fireman try to enter from the outside to be able to do reasonably quickly in the case of a fire. Casement windows that do not swing wide enough and always seen to be a problem with the width. That is the reason for buying a window sized to be an egress window.

There will be information with the window that states what rough opening is required. Be aware that the 44" height to the bottom of the opening is not necessary in effect is all areas and a locality can change that (as long as it is more restrictive). Another common maximum height above finished floor is 42".

With the size of the rough opening you need and the height of the bottom of the window opening, you can get an ides of how to make the rough opening with the appropriate structure and loads oper the opening.

If it was me, and the block wall was parallel to the joists, I would put solid 2x4 blocking between the first 2 or 3 joists and the sill while it was still open. What was in the photo seemed a little feeble.

Dick


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The window manufacturer has their egress list, check with them. Remember, the *opening* of the bottom of the window meets Code for minimum height above finished floor, not the sill- check with local AHJ on this. Cut the block to the window, not size the window to block... add the head, sill and jamb framing of p.t. wood (eg. 2x8), otherwise the top of the window may look odd compared to others in the house or standing in front of it. Usually, with an "egress" sized window, the height is standard, even it it doesn't work out with the blocks. You may need wedge anchors or adhesive-set fasteners, check locally. Cover the back of the p.t. touching block with sticky window wrap (flash) for a capillary break after filling the open cells with mortar mix/canned foam as per AHJ. Caulk any filler framing/trim that holds the window in after backer rod to get an "hour-glass" shape for optimum stretch between dis-similar materials. Use galvanized "HD" fasteners with p.t. wood. Are you cutting the block yourself?

Gary


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

dwcopple said:


> seriously? that seems extreme for a 32" opening. why don't the 32x18 windows have that then?


They should. Even my 24-inch basement windows have lintels.


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## dwcopple (Apr 1, 2012)

they don't. I replaced one for the bathroom I just built down there. What size boards should I use for header? 2x8, 2x10, 2x6? Not sure what you mean by blocking the first 2-3 joists before the sill plate.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

For proper blocking, you put in 2x's the same depth as the joist and perpendicular to the joist the increase that stiffness of the floor system.

That, plus real anchor bolts that should be into the sill plate provide great support for the foundation walls and prevent future basement wall problems (especially for the basement walls that are non-bearing).

It is easy and cheap and should have been done originally.

Dick


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## dwcopple (Apr 1, 2012)

Well my house was built in 1960 and I bought it in 2005 so it is what it is, sorry.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I suggest that you visit your local AHJ and work with them on this. Adding another header joist (1' longer on each end than opening) on the mud-sill next to the perimeter (outside) joist is not that difficult (as said before). Weathering it in may be-unless you understand construction. We don't know your experience/knowledge.

You may need a permit for this structural change, both for when the house sells and possibly for your H.O. Insurance carrier for any liability you cause in the project. 

Gary


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

GBR in WA said:


> Cut the block to the window, not size the window to block...


I disagree with this statement...will be a cleaner, easier job to stay within block coursing. If the window is smaller than the block opening provide wood blocking to make up the difference.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

44” to sill or window opening (per location *-1”*) minus the rough sill = 43, minus the p.t. rough sill (framing) = 1-1/2= *2-1/2” *total from the 44” = *41- ½ plus the slab/tile = 4”= 45-1/2”* yet the blocks are in 8” increments or 40”, either cut 2-1/2” off the top of that row of block, or remove another one and add wood filler there as you suggest. Problem is, now instead of the window well grade coming 2” below the window (with gravel, if accepted by local AHJ), now you are *5-1/2” lower* with your grade and may also need a ladder inside well because you are now over the 44” per code there (depends on grade). If draining to the yard with a drywell, now you need everything 5-1/2” deeper, hope its easy digging, not rocky or clay soil. Draining with tie-in to footing drain, fine, but now you have 5-1/2” more wood/siding applied below the window and a ladder for added expense/work, plus a bigger chance of rain water leakage below the window unless the well is covered above. 

The OP could also “special order” a window to fit the blocks-removed opening, though he would still need to cut the jamb blocks. So the bottom of the window height is critical (for egress), the top can be “close enough” (break on a mortar joint if it works out), adding wood below may add; more framing/insulation; deeper depth to the window well grade-- now need ladder; deeper window well- metal or home-made; harder/longer drainage digging w.o. drain below; additional siding with greater possibility for water leaks below window. You need to cut the jambs anyway, and possibly the header (for lintel)- or sister rim joist, add framing for header, or pay more for a special order window and wait longer to install it rather than using a ready-available stock egress window.

Gary


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

I see you designed the sill of the window within a half an inch via a picture that doesn't even show what coursing the block is at the floor level. Impressive...:notworthy:

Obviously if the situation warrants a saw-cut, then you do it. But it's much easier, for a DIYer, to break out joints and blocks than to handle a cut off saw through an 8" block foundation. Not to mention you'll likely need to replace the blocks at the sill with solid blocks to give you something to affix the sill plate to (i'm assuming the cores aren't 100% solid filled). This also goes for the tooth-in blocks at the jambs. So with that, you won't have a whole mess of wood below the window, you'll have new block, which can easily be back-filled against. Also, windows come with varying widths and heights, many that match block coursings...


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Thank you for the compliment but anyone with a few years of field experience in construction knows the CMU’s set on the footing and *start up* from there. The *slab also* sets on the footing edge as per Code, been that way since I started in construction in ‘73. Simply subtract the slab thickness from the 8” joints, as I said already. No rocket science here- just simple math, LOL. Most contractors only dig the minimum (unless soil conditions warrant it) and set the footing low enough for the basement headroom code plus clearance to the overhead mechanicals (HVAC) that are below the floor joists (if finished rooms). 



The 4 egress windows I have cut-in didn’t work to match mortar joints on the bottom (because of the required sill set height off the slab) and I had to cut them; pour mortar mix in the exposed cells for the fasteners before covering with a p.t. sill. I suppose one could (carefully) knock the next row out, cut them to the correct size – with what, a brick masons chisel or masons hammer- very difficult to get a perfect clean/straight edge and top, replace them, and then wait for the new mortar joints to set (with an outside hole to your basement ). The only advantage to cutting them away from the area is the dust when using a masonry blade in a skillsaw (doesn’t cut deep enough) or a rented cut-off saw. I find it faster/easier (one day job) to just cut the sill blocks also as the jambs require cutting anyway, as I said earlier. Even better is to hire it out, as that big saw gets very heavy, very fast (the older you get….), I agree with you there. Window availability is important; one may wind up cutting the head (top of window) also, as window selection at box stores for DIY’ers is limited in their selection, at least around here. Have you ever cut a window hole in a block basement? Do you have much field experience with blocks, or did you go right from college to designing? I've only done a small handful and even less in the future- if I can help it...LOL.


Gary


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Make sure you measure everything starting form the floor up when it comes to the maximum height of the opening (from "finished" floor), although the window can be installed lower if it make the height situation easier and is code compliant because the code refers to the "maximum" height and not the exact height of the window opening above finished floor. I have seen people hold off on putting in any substantial flooring until after the final inspection because they did not plan in advance. If the window has a sticker on it or paperwork, the only thing for an inspector to do to complete his job is measure from floor to the clear opening.

GBR was quiet accurate in the description of the wall method of construction, but do not assume all basements are constructed exactly to the same dimensions. In some areas, block are made in different heights - 7-5/8" high (modular 8) that lay to 8" high (full 8) with a mortar joint that lay to 8-3/8" high. A similar situation exists with the block length. Block can be made in 15-5/8" lengths and 17-5/8" lengths that lay up to 16" and 18" including a mortar joint. Because the face dimensions and the height to length ratios are similar, it is important the check the measurement of the faces and the cemter line spacing of mortar joints. These variations occur mainly in 8" and 12" thick walls, while 10" are rarely made in the full 8" heights. For the thicker basement walls (14" and 16") they should all in modular dimensions. The use of deeper basements is more common because it is cheap space if it to be part of the finished living area.

Similarly, all slabs are not 4" thick, so measure upward starting from the slab. The slabs may be 3-1/2" or more (up to 6") depending on the needs and situation of the excavated floor level since, a slab is commonly put in after the house is framed up to speed construction (cold weather, utilities, mechanicals, etc.) and may be one of the last things done along with the sidewalks and steps.

Dick


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

GBR in WA said:


> Anyone with a few years of field experience in construction knows the CMU’s set on the footing and *start up* from there.


My previous response was on the basis that anyone with a few years of field experience knows that the residential sector is full of unusual construction details and assumptions as to what actually exists sometimes leads to design mistakes (I've seen it ALOT). That is however, the typical and "standard" approach...


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