# Such a thing as green insulation?



## fpp (Aug 20, 2016)

Not sure if this is the right category to post this:

Even if it exists it's probably too late for my roof, and too cost prohibitive but, does 'green' insulation exist? If so, is it easily attainable, sustainable, safe, etc?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi fpp,
A complicated question. Most insulations can be considered partially green in that they reduce the energy used and the pollution related to its production. Cellulose is pretty green as it uses recycled news paper which comes from a renewable source.

As for insulating a roof, are you referring to the rafters of attic floor? For the rafters there are some more friendly foam products but the question of where the insulation should go would need to be answered first. Rafters is a last choice unless there is a specific reason.

Bud


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## fpp (Aug 20, 2016)

Thanks for your reply, Bud. I should have clarified beforehand: not on the rafters, on the attic floor.

i could be wrong: a 'conditioned attic' (insulating the rafters) is only needed if there will be ductwork or, if the attic will be used as a living space. Plus, the attic is not accessible enough to apply to the rafters, even if we wanted to.

I had no idea what cellulose insulation is, that sounds pretty great for the environment and my health but, how does it fare compared to fiberglass (the most likely choice I'd go with due to low cost).


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## fpp (Aug 20, 2016)

Right after posting that reply, I read this:

"If you have roof rafters in your attic that aren’t insulated, you’re throwing money away."


http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-insulate-roof-rafters


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

LOL, I just gave that a quick look but bookmarked it for later review, Not sure who is responsible for that, advertiser of the forum but it should reflect current best practices. My brief look wasn't encouraging.

What you posted is correct and insulating the ceiling (after air sealing) is a time tested approach.

As for the cellulose, it is a common insulation here in the northeast and preferred by the weatherization programs for performance and cost. Not sure about the availability where your are. Here the big box stores sell it and they rent the blower machines.

Bud


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

In addition to cellulose, there is 'rock wool' (Roxul, Safe&Sound, etc.) which made from, as its name implies, spun molten mineral rock. As far as the complete green footprint of the various options, I imagine there is research out there. As mentioned, they are all green since they save energy, but each must have their own energy input to manufacture them. I have also heard of insulation made from recycled denim. In addition to being 'green' apparently bugs don't like it. I know nothing more beyond that and have never seen it available up here - it may be a niche market item.


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## fpp (Aug 20, 2016)

Bud9051 said:


> My brief look wasn't encouraging.
> 
> What you posted is correct and insulating the ceiling (after air sealing) is a time tested approach.


I'm not sure what I posted that you're referring to... that I don't need to insulate the rafters? ..or, that the quote from the article is correct about losing money without insulated rafters?

And, if possible: I'd like to know more about what's not encouraging.


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## fpp (Aug 20, 2016)

lenaitch said:


> a niche market item.


yeah, I saw this online and wondered that it could just be sales gimmicks to make more money off scrap denim, or whatnot. 

By 'green' I was thinking cradle to grave, as they say.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

fpp said:


> does 'green' insulation exist?


 First you need to define what "green" means to you. Green in color ?, not made with ozone depleting substances ?, did not use any energy to be produced ?, does not use formaldehyde based binding agent.....?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sorry, my bad for not providing a quote. Here is what you said "a 'conditioned attic' (insulating the rafters) is only needed if there will be ductwork or, if the attic will be used as a living space. Plus, the attic is not accessible enough to apply to the rafters, even if we wanted to." and it is correct.

As for the "not encouraging" comment I haven't had time to go over the link, but they say rafters and picture rafters but start out by calculating the floor area and then a picture of someone rolling insulation out over an attic floor. In addition that attic floor is existing decking that should not be left in between two layers of insulation. 
I'm guessing the link is an advertisement for fiberglass insulation. But since advertising pays the overhead I'm going to be careful as to how much I complain.

But it brings up the real problem of what you should believe from what you read on the internet and from my perspective there is a lot of poor advice out there and once posted it remains out there for many years. I try to stay with Building Science Corp. or Green Building Advisors and some of the top promoters in the energy business through LinkedIn. 

I'm a retired energy auditor and now (in addition to the forums) provide independent consulting. The key word is "independent" but I do try to stay up with the best practices.

Bud


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

foam is the worst for the environment. it's made from carcinogenic petrochemicals.

if it burns the fumes will kill you, it has to be covered by a fire resistant material like drywall because it poses such an extreme hazard in home fires.

some applications call for it.

Fiberglass is reasonable and often comes formaldehyde free with recycled material. the chemical used to keep fiberglass together in batts used to have formaldehyde which could off gas.

Cellulose is the best environmentally. Safe, non-toxic, good performance.

it's treated with borax i believe to make it fire and inspect resistant.
borax is no more toxic than mild laundry detergent.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

They make some pretty good insulation out of recycled and shredded denim blue jeans

Here's one example, do an internet search to find lots of others.










http://www.bondedlogic.com/ultratouch-denim-insulation/
.
.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Plastic is at the top of the list.....that's and interesting logic. 

And Aerogel. Another interesting pick. 

So of the two most commercially available insulations on your list...both are plastic?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

---------------------Welcome to the forums!------------------

From my library; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bas...ockwool-fiberglass-organic-fibers-review.html

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/insulation.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=lifetime%20GWP%20of%20SPF%20and%20XPS&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np#q=lifetime+GWP+of+SPF+and+XPS&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Zrv&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=np&prmd=imvns&ei=jHPKT66cNYmX0QH_tslt&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=edee43f1655d1fb9&biw=853&bih=504

https://books.google.com/books?id=M...XPS insulation sheathing in tacoma wa&f=false

http://ecobrooklyn.com/choosing-insulation/

Though, IME, cellulose will wet the wall (heated side) to alert you before molding; http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2009/06/29/why-i-dont-use-cellulose-or-blue-jean-insulation

http://inspectapedia.com/Fiberglass/Fiberglass_Mold_Contamination.htm

https://www.buildinggreen.com/blog/problems-installing-cotton-insulation

And check out the other 4 reasons, besides this #5; https://foursevenfive.com/foam-fails-reason-5-excessive-shrinkage/

Just compare the densities of FG with cellulose, hence cellulose doesn't have inherent convective loops to rob your R-value in attic blown-in insulation, if in a heating climate. 

Gary
PS. and welcome "wellliving" also!


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## Flannel Guy DIY (Mar 12, 2017)

I am sure you can grind up waste plastic and have it blown into your walls. Green in the sense that it would not go into a landfill. Not sure what the R rating would be


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## dgghostkilla (Apr 15, 2017)

the used jean type no?


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## AIRLOCK (Jun 19, 2017)

As a 2nd generation insulation professional, we have been spraying a 100% green insulation since 1989. that was before Green was a movement. 

the thing is, "Green" can mean a lot of things that you wouldn't consider green. for example, toxic sludge can be considered Green if its made with renewable resources in a Green energy building. When it comes to the product, i want to know if IT is green, not where its made.

that being said some cellulose insulation manufacturers produce an "ALL-Borate" product that is totally green. that is what ive been doing for almost 30 years.


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## stuart44 (Jun 29, 2016)

http://uk.sheepwoolinsulation.com/


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