# General and Specific Questions on Clutch Replacement 2000 Celica GTS



## amodoko

I'm about to do a clutch replacement in my car since the clutch is slipping and I just have some general, as well as some specific questions about the process. First off, the car is a 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S with 80,000 miles with Manual Transmission (obviously manual trans). It's a front wheel drive car. This is my first time doing a clutch replacment, so I have a few questions about the process. Please feel free to answer what you feel comfortable or knowledgeable answering, I know this is a long list of questions so just answer whatever you have the time for. I appreciate it, thanks

1) Is there anything one can do to inspect the clutch system to make sure something can be adjusted or not to fix a slipping clutch before tearing apart your car to get to the transmission? I have a hydraulic clutch I believe, and was just wondering if there was something I could adjust or fix to get a clutch to not slip... like bearing free travel or seeing if fluid was low in the clutch master cylinder or something?

2)Once I complete my clutch replacement, will I need to get a wheel alignment done? I will be removing lots of components, such as the front axle, and thought this may affect alignment.

3)Are you supposed to replace the rear main seal when doing a clutch replacement? Is this normally replaced when people replace their clutches? If so, how long would this take a general DIY'er to do?

4)If it isn't necessary to replace a rear main seal, how long do they generally last before they leak oil? 

5)I don't really understand how to tell the difference between a clutch slipping and a transmission slipping. How can one tell if it is their clutch that is slipping and not their transmission? I would think they would cause similar symptoms.

6)Currently, my car's symptoms are that the RPM revs up without much acceleration, especially in the higher gears, and then will later rev down and the clutch plate will engage the flywheel. Over the past few months, it now can affect the lower gears as well... hallmark symptoms of a clutch slipping. But wouldn't a transmission slipping cause the same symptoms? 

7)I have heard that if you change transmission fluid in a car that is old, it can destroy the transmission since it has gotten "used to" the old trans fluid, and when you add the new fluid... the transmission can go bad within a few thousand miles. Does this theory apply to manual transmissions? Or does it only apply to automatic transmissions? (I never changed my fluid but will probably do so when I do the clutch repair since I have to drain the transmission anyways. I never changed the fluid since the manual stated it was only necessary if driven in "harsh" conditions such as towing, dust, etc)

8)If I do replace the transmission fluid with new fluid, do I have to replace it soon after again... like in 5,000 miles of driving... in order to get rid of any remaining old fluid? Or can I just leave whatever is in there for at least 30,000 miles or more before I do another drain and refill?

9)Should I replace the pilot bearing (this is different than the throw out bearing)? I don't want to if it isn't necessary, but if it is, how long would you estimate it takes a regular DIY'er to do this? (At the moment, all I'm definitely replacing is: new clutch disc, new pressure plate, new throw out bearing, resurfacing the flywheel, using new OEM flywheel bolts)

10)Is there any issue with using a little bit of regular lithium grease on the face of the throw out bearing? I saw a video on youtube of a mechanic that uses a small dab of high temperature lithium grease on the faces of throw out bearings before installation (I don't have any high temp, but I have regular lithium grease). 


Phew, told you I had a lot of questions Anyways, if you've gotten this far, I appreciate you even reading my post. Thanks in advance for any answers, I appreciate it. Take care.


----------



## 64pvolvo1800

amodoko said:


> I'm about to do a clutch replacement in my car since the clutch is slipping and I just have some general, as well as some specific questions about the process. First off, the car is a 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S with 80,000 miles with Manual Transmission (obviously manual trans). It's a front wheel drive car. This is my first time doing a clutch replacment, so I have a few questions about the process. Please feel free to answer what you feel comfortable or knowledgeable answering, I know this is a long list of questions so just answer whatever you have the time for. I appreciate it, thanks
> 
> 1) Is there anything one can do to inspect the clutch system to make sure something can be adjusted or not to fix a slipping clutch before tearing apart your car to get to the transmission? I have a hydraulic clutch I believe, and was just wondering if there was something I could adjust or fix to get a clutch to not slip... like bearing free travel or seeing if fluid was low in the clutch master cylinder or something?
> 
> No adjustment, you need the clutch.
> 
> 2)Once I complete my clutch replacement, will I need to get a wheel alignment done? I will be removing lots of components, such as the front axle, and thought this may affect alignment.
> 
> If you remove or disturb a strut, you need alignment.
> 
> 3)Are you supposed to replace the rear main seal when doing a clutch replacement? Is this normally replaced when people replace their clutches? If so, how long would this take a general DIY'er to do?
> 
> Absolutely do the rear main. Five dollars more into a $1000 job by itself would be foolish not to.
> 
> 4)If it isn't necessary to replace a rear main seal, how long do they generally last before they leak oil? See 3.
> 
> 5)I don't really understand how to tell the difference between a clutch slipping and a transmission slipping. How can one tell if it is their clutch that is slipping and not their transmission? I would think they would cause similar symptoms.
> 
> Clutch is your issue.
> 
> 6)Currently, my car's symptoms are that the RPM revs up without much acceleration, especially in the higher gears, and then will later rev down and the clutch plate will engage the flywheel. Over the past few months, it now can affect the lower gears as well... hallmark symptoms of a clutch slipping. But wouldn't a transmission slipping cause the same symptoms?
> 
> Clutch period.
> 
> 7)I have heard that if you change transmission fluid in a car that is old, it can destroy the transmission since it has gotten "used to" the old trans fluid, and when you add the new fluid... the transmission can go bad within a few thousand miles. Does this theory apply to manual transmissions? Or does it only apply to automatic transmissions? (I never changed my fluid but will probably do so when I do the clutch repair since I have to drain the transmission anyways. I never changed the fluid since the manual stated it was only necessary if driven in "harsh" conditions such as towing, dust, etc)
> 
> Manual tranny, change fluid and use 3309 or whatever manufacturer recommends. Automatics are temperamental but not so much with sticks.
> 
> 8)If I do replace the transmission fluid with new fluid, do I have to replace it soon after again... like in 5,000 miles of driving... in order to get rid of any remaining old fluid? Or can I just leave whatever is in there for at least 30,000 miles or more before I do another drain and refill?
> 
> No need.
> 
> 9)Should I replace the pilot bearing (this is different than the throw out bearing)? I don't want to if it isn't necessary, but if it is, how long would you estimate it takes a regular DIY'er to do this? (At the moment, all I'm definitely replacing is: new clutch disc, new pressure plate, new throw out bearing, resurfacing the flywheel, using new OEM flywheel bolts)
> 
> YES. Do the pilot bearing. It is the center support in the rear of the crank and supports the shaft. Different from the throw out. I'd save a good day for this and make sure you have the equipment necessary to do this before turning the first bolt. On Volvo I have to drop the subframe but not sure about yours. Above all, when working under the car, USE JACKSTANDS. Safety is paramount.
> This is a big job and you should have a manual handy. Read, read, and read again before the first wrench hits the first bolt.
> 
> 10)Is there any issue with using a little bit of regular lithium grease on the face of the throw out bearing? I saw a video on youtube of a mechanic that uses a small dab of high temperature lithium grease on the faces of throw out bearings before installation (I don't have any high temp, but I have regular lithium grease).
> 
> NO don't do it.
> Friction surfaces do not need slinging grease in the vicinity.
> 
> Phew, told you I had a lot of questions Anyways, if you've gotten this far, I appreciate you even reading my post. Thanks in advance for any answers, I appreciate it. Take care.


Report back please, and others will share in your success or pain, and probably both!


----------



## Bondo

> 9)Should I replace the pilot bearing (this is different than the throw out bearing)? I don't want to if it isn't necessary, but if it is, how long would you estimate it takes a regular DIY'er to do this? (At the moment, all I'm definitely replacing is: new clutch disc, new pressure plate, new throw out bearing, resurfacing the flywheel, using new OEM flywheel bolts)


Ayuh,... I'd replace the pilot bearin', as yer already there,...

Rear main seals, Usually last the life of the motor...

'n, Manual transmissions don't slip, it's Mechanical, gears can't slip like an automatic...

'n lastly,... Ya might oughta consider pullin' the Motor, rather than the transmission to do the job...


----------



## paintdrying

You might as well invest in a factory service manual. You can find them cheap on ebay. Hanynes and the such are not very good. I would not introduce any grease into that whole assembly unless specifically told to do so in a factory service manual. As for resurfacing the flywheel, probably not necessary. Rear main, your call. Pilot bearing, yeah probably. An alignment, no. I would go ahead and replace the master and slave cylinder if they are not to expensive. Buy high quality parts as well. I would go over to the Toyota forums for the specfics of the job. Probably not that hard just a lot of labor.


----------



## amodoko

I really appreciate everyone's responses... since this is my first time doing it, this information really helps me understand a bit more about what needs to be done. So thanks a bunch.

I am lucky enough to have a factory service manual in pdf, it has helped me greatly. But I still had some lingering questions that I wanted to clear up before I went ahead and did this so that's why I asked so many questions.

After doing some research, it seems that my car doesn't even have pilot bearing... at least from what I have seen online and the manual doesn't mention it either. So that will save me some work if there isn't one. And I may just skip out on doing the rear main seal if they are supposed to last the life of the motor, since I don't want to mess that up with a new seal and possibly cause a leak. I'm not worried about the cost of the seal, just my skills in placing it correctly. But I may change my mind as I read up on how to do this properly.

I always thought manual transmissions could slip even though they were mechanical. Guess I was wrong. I know they can definitely become difficult to shift due to wear/bad trans fluid, but I assumed they could slip too. 

I actually assumed that pulling the motor would be the way to go, but much of the instructions from other online owners of my car have simply just pulled the trans. They say either way is difficult due to it being a FWD car. 

Anyways, I greatly appreciate all the responses. It helped me out a ton. You guys rock!


----------



## Bondo

amodoko said:


> I really appreciate everyone's responses... since this is my first time doing it, this information really helps me understand a bit more about what needs to be done. So thanks a bunch.
> 
> I am lucky enough to have a factory service manual in pdf, it has helped me greatly. But I still had some lingering questions that I wanted to clear up before I went ahead and did this so that's why I asked so many questions.
> 
> *After doing some research, it seems that my car doesn't even have pilot bearing...* at least from what I have seen online and the manual doesn't mention it either. So that will save me some work if there isn't one. And I may just skip out on doing the rear main seal if they are supposed to last the life of the motor, since I don't want to mess that up with a new seal and possibly cause a leak. I'm not worried about the cost of the seal, just my skills in placing it correctly. But I may change my mind as I read up on how to do this properly.
> 
> I always thought manual transmissions could slip even though they were mechanical. Guess I was wrong. I know they can definitely become difficult to shift due to wear/bad trans fluid, but I assumed they could slip too.
> 
> I actually assumed that pulling the motor would be the way to go, but much of the instructions from other online owners of my car have simply just pulled the trans. They say either way is difficult due to it being a FWD car.
> 
> Anyways, I greatly appreciate all the responses. It helped me out a ton. You guys rock!


Ayuh,.... It's either got a pilot bearing, or a pocket bushing,...

To remove either, fill the hole with Grease,...
Then with a snug fitting dowel, drive the dowel into the hole filled with grease...
That'll push the bearin'/ bushin' Out....
Then clean up the mess, 'n tap in the new 1....

Btw,.... I completely disagree with paintdrying, 'bout resurfacin' the flywheel,...
Even if ya think it's smooth enough, get it resurfaced...

I've been there, 'n done that,...
Doin' it a *2nd time*, sucks worse than the 1st time, because ya Didn't reface the flywheel...


----------



## ukrkoz

amodoko;1116295]I'm about to do a clutch replacement in my car since the clutch is slipping and I just have some general, as well as some specific questions about the process. First off, the car is a 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S with 80,000 miles with Manual Transmission (obviously manual trans).

Awfully early for clutch job, unless car was raced, or driver does not know how to drive clutch

It's a front wheel drive car. This is my first time doing a clutch replacment, so I have a few questions about the process. Please feel free to answer what you feel comfortable or knowledgeable answering, I know this is a long list of questions so just answer whatever you have the time for. I appreciate it, thanks

 OK, you have manual.

1) Is there anything one can do to inspect the clutch system to make sure something can be adjusted or not to fix a slipping clutch before tearing apart your car to get to the transmission? I have a hydraulic clutch I believe, and was just wondering if there was something I could adjust or fix to get a clutch to not slip... like bearing free travel or seeing if fluid was low in the clutch master cylinder or something?

BLEED THE CLUTCH CYLINDER!!!!! BLEED THE CLUTCH CYLINDER!!!!!

2)Once I complete my clutch replacement, will I need to get a wheel alignment done? I will be removing lots of components, such as the front axle, and thought this may affect alignment.

NO. You should remove only half shafts, wheels, undo tie rod end on one side, and scoot strut off to the side. Trannie goes down and out. IF you have to remove strut, then yes. 

3)Are you supposed to replace the rear main seal when doing a clutch replacement? Is this normally replaced when people replace their clutches? If so, how long would this take a general DIY'er to do?

No, but if you there - do it. It's five minute job. Screwdriver, pry old one out, place new one in, tap in place with mallet. Also, replace pressure plate bearing.

4)If it isn't necessary to replace a rear main seal, how long do they generally last before they leak oil? 

They last long long time. Entire replacement sounds tooo premature.

5)I don't really understand how to tell the difference between a clutch slipping and a transmission slipping. How can one tell if it is their clutch that is slipping and not their transmission? I would think they would cause similar symptoms.

Slipping clutch feels like this:
1. it starts smelling of burnt brakes
2. going up hill becomes an issue
3. Taking off becomes an issue
4. Car starts jerking at take off. It's a long process and does not happen overnight.
5. If you have good parking brake, here's simple test:
engage parking brake, and well; start engine, press on clutch pedal and engage 1st gear. Slowly release clutch pedal. If engine jerks and stalls - YOUR CLUTCH IS GOOD!!! If engine keeps running and it starts smelling burnt - clutch is slipping.

6)Currently, my car's symptoms are that the RPM revs up without much acceleration, especially in the higher gears, and then will later rev down and the clutch plate will engage the flywheel. Over the past few months, it now can affect the lower gears as well... hallmark symptoms of a clutch slipping. But wouldn't a transmission slipping cause the same symptoms? 

7)I have heard that if you change transmission fluid in a car that is old, it can destroy the transmission since it has gotten "used to" the old trans fluid, and when you add the new fluid... the transmission can go bad within a few thousand miles. Does this theory apply to manual transmissions? Or does it only apply to automatic transmissions? (I never changed my fluid but will probably do so when I do the clutch repair since I have to drain the transmission anyways. I never changed the fluid since the manual stated it was only necessary if driven in "harsh" conditions such as towing, dust, etc)

That's for ATF; you have gear oil. It's high viscosity oil. Buy some Amsoil, though expensive, but it will make your trannie run like a Swiss watch and does not need change in several hundred thousand miles. But yes, you'd be better off having oil changed.

8)If I do replace the transmission fluid with new fluid, do I have to replace it soon after again... like in 5,000 miles of driving... in order to get rid of any remaining old fluid? Or can I just leave whatever is in there for at least 30,000 miles or more before I do another drain and refill?

See above.

9)Should I replace the pilot bearing (this is different than the throw out bearing)? I don't want to if it isn't necessary, but if it is, how long would you estimate it takes a regular DIY'er to do this? (At the moment, all I'm definitely replacing is: new clutch disc, new pressure plate, new throw out bearing, resurfacing the flywheel, using new OEM flywheel bolts)

Yes. See above.

10)Is there any issue with using a little bit of regular lithium grease on the face of the throw out bearing? I saw a video on youtube of a mechanic that uses a small dab of high temperature lithium grease on the faces of throw out bearings before installation (I don't have any high temp, but I have regular lithium grease). 

No. But it'll stink when it burns. 


Phew, told you I had a lot of questions Anyways, if you've gotten this far, I appreciate you even reading my post. Thanks in advance for any answers, I appreciate it. Take care.

I do not think, you have bad clutch plate. Do parking brake test. If parking brake is no good, slowly drive your car towards a solid wall, so that bumper is flush against it. Then engage 1st and release clutch. If she stalls, clutch is good. Most likely, air in the system and needs to be bled. I can't tell over an email, I judge by foot feel in the clutch pedal.


----------



## ukrkoz

Oh, and make sure, you have clutch plate guide. I usually make them out of a tree branch or a stick, but you may buy a universal one in any parts store. *BIG MISTAKE* if you do NOT have one. :jester::no::furious:


----------



## Bondo

> 1) Is there anything one can do to inspect the clutch system to make sure something can be adjusted or not to fix a slipping clutch before tearing apart your car to get to the transmission? I have a hydraulic clutch I believe, and was just wondering if there was something I could adjust or fix to get a clutch to not slip... like bearing free travel or seeing if fluid was low in the clutch master cylinder or something?
> 
> BLEED THE CLUTCH CYLINDER!!!!! BLEED THE CLUTCH CYLINDER!!!!!


Ayuh,.... If the master, 'n slave needs bleedin', it'll cause the clutch to *Not disengage*....

If the clutch is Slippin', the clutch plate is burnt out...

The symptoms are Backwards to think it needs bleedin'.....

'n,... I agree that this is premature,... I gotta believe the driver rides the clutch pedal...
A clutch should last several hundred thousand miles... it's been Abused...


----------



## amodoko

Hey Bondo, thanks for the clarification, if it either has a pilot bearing or pocket bushing... I'll try to find the part. So far I haven't had any luck finding information on either, but I also haven't looked that much yet. 

And yeah, resurfacing a flywheel always seems to be controversial. Some people say do it, while others say they've never had to. This being my first time doing it, I'm definitely going to get it resurfaced since I don't want to mess this up at all. 

And to reply to it being early for this clutch wearing out, I agree. The primary reason being that this car has been driven by several different drivers that were new to manual transmissions. Basically, several people learned how to drive a manual transmission on this car. So the clutch has been abused a great amount by different people... especially within the first 50,000 miles. It no longer is used for teaching though, but early in its life it was. The only thing I can say about it not being terribly early though, is I have talked to other people that have owned this car online and the majority of them have had their clutch slipping prior to 100K miles, so maybe this clutch burns up quick. But this may be due to the type of drivers this somewhat sporty car attracts that enjoy pushing the car close to its limits. I have heard of people that have gotten this car to 160K miles without any clutch slipping, so it is possible to do this with normal driving. * In addition, I don't know if the car being 13 years old can cause the clutch to wear. To be more specific, I know age itself shouldn't affect the amount of clutch pad wear, but maybe it could affect the strength of springs/etc that create pressure to push the clutch disc against the flywheel... since the clutch is engaged even when the car is off (at least I thought it was always engaged unless you press down on the clutch pedal) I would think that age could then affect the strength of the forces that push down against the clutch disc. Kind of like if you constantly press down on a spring, over time, the spring will lose some of its potential forces.*

And urkoz, thanks for your replies as well, but I kind of agree with Bondo with regards to bleeding the clutch as long as the source of pressure that engages the clutch disc is a mechanical force (with the little knowledge that I have). I would think bleeding the clutch would not make a difference in decreasing the amount a clutch slips if my crude knowledge on cars is correct. The reason being, when you push down on the clutch pedal, it disengages the clutch disc from the flywheel. If the clutch hydraulic lines had air in them or bad fluid, it would make the transfer of pressure through the clutch lines worse, which would then make it more difficult to disengage the clutch disc, NOT engage, the clutch disc from the flywheel. The only way I would think that bleeding the clutch would help, is if the pressure applied to the clutch disc is coming from the pressure within the clutch hydraulic lines (either directly or indirectly). I'm assuming the source of pressure applied to the clutch disc is coming from a mechanical force (like a spring or something). But like I said, I don't know much about cars, so you could be right (especially if the source of the pressure is the clutch fluid lines), but just on what little I know it seems like bleeding the clutch shouldn't logically make a difference. 
*
Actually, if anyone knows, what is the SOURCE of pressure that pushes the clutch disc against the flywheel? *(this would clear up the confusion on whether bleeding the clutch lines should make a difference or not) I have heard the throw out bearing pushes against the clutch pressure plates fingers which then push the clutch disc against the flywheel... but what is the source of pressure that pushes the throw out bearing against the pressure plate? Is it a spring, etc?

In addition, I do have a clutch plate guide fortunately. I bought a clutch set, so it came with the throw out bearing, cluch disc, clutch pressure plate, clutch guide tool, and grease for the spline. 

Also, I have heard of the clutch slip test urkoz, I will have to give that a try before I do the repair. But I'll do that in second gear since that will be less harsh than 1st.


----------



## Bondo

> Actually, if anyone knows, what is the SOURCE of pressure that pushes the clutch disc against the flywheel?


Ayuh,... Anytime the pedal isn't bein' pushed, the Pressure Plate holds the disc firmly against the flywheel...

Pushin' on the pedal causes the throw-out bearin' to disengage the pressure plate from the clutch disc, 'n relieves it's pressure against the flywheel...
This is also the only time the pilot bushin' or bearin' sees rotational motion, as the trans is not turnin' with the motor anymore....

I've got rigs with 50 year old clutches, that haven't lost spring pressure from the pressure plate, so it ain't common,...
But,...
Anything is Possible... pressure plates, Can go Bad...


----------



## amodoko

Awesome, makes sense. I read up some more on clutches, this is a great little animation (you have to click on it) as well as description on clutches:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm

With the above animation, it would definitely make sense that bleeding the clutch would not help at all with clutch slippage. 

And I still have not found any information on if I have a pilot bearing or some bushing (besides the throw out bearing) that can be replaced. I found a picture of someone with the same car as mine with an image of where a pilot bearing would be found, and I see none. I posted it below. So it doesn't seem I have a bearing (besides the throw out bearing) that is meant to be replaced when a clutch replacement is done. 

Also, did some more research, and the causes of clutch slipping in my car per the service manual are 1) oil on disc 2) worn out clutch plate 3)clutch pedal free play needs to be adjusted 4) or it has issues with the pressure plate/disc/throw out bearing/clutch fork. Basically, the only things you can check are clutch pedal free play, and then if that doesn't work you must take the car apart to look at the clutch/replace/fix parts. It said the clutch line being bled would help only if the clutch had issues disengaging completely from the flywheel... in that case bleeding would help it engage better. 

Anyways, with the photos posted below of what my car looks like at the crank/rear main seal, it looks as though there is no pilot bearing or bushing that I can remove. What do you think Bondo? By the way, the photos represent the same car I have, but this isn't my car... it is from another DIY guy.


----------



## Bondo

> Anyways, with the photos posted below of what my car looks like at the crank/rear main seal, it looks as though there is no pilot bearing or bushing that I can remove. What do you think Bondo?


Ayuh,.... Take it apart, 'n *Look*....

There's gotta be something to stabilize the shaft...


----------



## amodoko

Sounds good, will do and will follow up once I'm done. Thanks a bunch bud, much appreciated.


----------



## ukrkoz

You know, with all the scientific discussion and Ayuh-s, you could have spent ten minutes bleeding the system, which is super easy, and another 5 doing stall test. But if you want to tear it all apart, and toss a bunch of money and elbow grease on it - fine by me.


----------



## paintdrying

Yeah, bleed it then replace all of it, then bleed it again, then do your clutch. As for anyone that disagree with turning the flywheel. Your options are replace or re use. I found one for your car for 40 bucks, plus @15 to ship. Will be more than that to turn.


----------



## amodoko

You're right, the aftermarket flywheels for my car are very inexpensive, especially on ebay. I had looked at those, but considered getting the flywheel resurfaced for $50 due to the fact that the OEM flywheel I have is supposedly much heavier than almost all the aftermarket ones, and I don't want to change the way the car revs (flywheel weight affects the way a car revs and holds power, etc). Honestly, it probably wouldn't make a difference but I'm just being picky. I will probably end up buying an aftermarket one if I ever have to do the clutch a second time if I still own the car, rather than getting it resurfaced a second time. 

And urkoz, hope you weren't offended at all. I just enjoy learning about stuff/asking questions/etc. I do a ton of research on this stuff. I'm obsessed with the science and mechanics of things in general (never really got a chance to work on stuff when I was younger), so for me, learning about it is the majority of the fun for me. So although I could have already bled the clutch, I just enjoy learning about the mechanics and functional aspects too much to just skip over to the physical work. I find myself spending a great deal of time just reading about stuff because it's so fun for me. 

I will probably bleed the clutch (as well as adjust clutch pedal free play) first due to the fact that it is so simple compared to tearing the car apart. But from the research I've done, it doesn't make theoretical sense that it will help at all, since air in the clutch lines would cause issues disengaging and not engaging. Even in the troubleshooting section of my service manual, it lists a bunch of causes for the clutch to slip and it does not mention the clutch lines at all or that bleeding the lines would beneficial... but regardless, sometimes things work due to an unaccounted variable so I'll probably bleed the lines anyways since it is easy to do. The only thing the manual lists that you can do without tearing the car apart is adjust clutch pedal free play. 

Anyways, thanks again for everyone's help


----------



## paintdrying

Did you ever pull a flywheel? Fun Fun Fun. That pic you posted, did you notice one of the bolts was snapped off. Not to take anything away from you as a mechanic, do not touch that flywheel, or rear main seal. The less you disturb the better chance you have of NON- failure. I remember mechanics was fun. What is even more fun is buying an inexpensive car and doing no work to it, putting no money into it, beating the crap out of it and knowing when to sell it before it starts the nickel and dime process. I buy most of my cars at scrap value, then 6 months to a year just junk them. I have done absolutely nothing to my current car except clean the dizzy cap, it has been over two years. I just bought another car and it is getting the blue devil, if that does not reseal the intake gasket, I will just junk it and make a few hundred dollars on the whole deal. After having the craigslist crowd nickel and dime me on the selling price.


----------



## amodoko

Yes, I noticed the broken off bolt. That is not my rear main seal, just a picture of what it would look like when I get to that point in the repair. The pictures I posted were from another website where the guy had used an aftermarket flywheel bolt that broke off. 

And no offense taken... I am not a mechanic, ha, just trying to learn on things when they need repairing. But I am going to at least try to take off the flywheel this time... haven't decided about the rear main seal 100% though. Even if I do mess something up, even if it is an expensive mistake, at least I'll learn a bit more had I not tried. And the knowledge I gain from those mistakes may even pay me back in the future since I won't have to pay someone to do repairs on my car, etc. 

That sounds like a great system you have where you don't really have to spend money on your car. I used to work on motorcycles/scooters where I would usually buy them when they were not running (since I enjoy tinkering with things) and then fix them up, drive them around for a summer, and then sell them for a profit. It wasn't a ton of cash, but it was fun to do. I've just never done anything like that with cars, since I'm still driving the first car I've ever owned. Wish I didn't have to teach all my family members, cousins, and a few friends how to drive a stick on it though... otherwise the clutch would not have burned up so quick. 

Yeah, craigslist can be hit or miss. Sometimes you'll get a bunch of tire kickers, and other times you'll get someone that understands the value of what you got. Once priced an old motorcycle on craigslist for $700, had one guy come out and analyze everything and said he'd offer me $200 max (even after I listed everything about the bike in detail prior to him coming down) which I declined of course. The very next day, a guy came by and bought it right way for $700 and was just glad it hadn't sold yet. 

I've never junked a car before, I will have to try that out some time. Seems like scrap metal prices are pretty high right now as well.


----------



## paintdrying

Did you find a write up on any of the forums? I do write ups a lot so i can remember how I did things later on. Pictures and diagrams can help you get the car back together without to many let over parts. I believe those flywheel bolts are locktighted on, probably need heat. I take out the number one spark plug and put a extension down the hole to hold the engine while I break the bolts with a cheater bar. Better if you hold the crankshaft bolt. I would hope you have a big compressor and air ratchet. Oh, and change that tranny fluid. I would use a torque wrench on the drain plug bolt, and make sure the fill plug comes loose before the drain plug. Check what fluid you need.


----------



## amodoko

That's all really good advice. The bolts are basically locktighted on (they come from the factory with some type of dry adhesive imbedded in the threads prior to installation). I was planning on just putting a screwdriver in the gears of the flywheel so it won't rotate while I unbolt the bolts. And I'm definitely changing the trans fluid (although the recommended brand and weight is $15 a bottle, and I'll need 3, ha, but well worth it anyways). I was able to find some write-ups online that should end up being very helpful.


----------



## Bondo

paintdrying said:


> Did you find a write up on any of the forums? I do write ups a lot so i can remember how I did things later on. Pictures and diagrams can help you get the car back together without to many let over parts. I believe those flywheel bolts are locktighted on, probably need heat. * I take out the number one spark plug and put a extension down the hole to hold the engine while I break the bolts with a cheater bar.* Better if you hold the crankshaft bolt. I would hope you have a big compressor and air ratchet. Oh, and change that tranny fluid. I would use a torque wrench on the drain plug bolt, and make sure the fill plug comes loose before the drain plug. Check what fluid you need.


Ayuh,.... Stuffin' a length of Rope into the cylinder is the accepted way of doin' that,...

Lots less chance of doin' Damage to the piston or head...


----------



## iamrfixit

I would never put anything through the spark plug holes. Far too much risk of damage, especially if you don't roll the engine to assure the valves are closed. Depending what you wedge in there you could also damage the cylinder walls, piston or even the plug threads in the head. Once you get the flywheel exposed holding it is not really difficult. You can put a couple of the pressure plate bolts back into the flywheel holes on opposing sides and use a pry bar long enough to give you the leverage. I just use my pneumatic impact and buzz them right out with no need to even hold the flywheel.

If you are going to do the job then replace the clutch disk, replace the pressure plate and surface the flywheel. This is not the time to save a buck, spend the money and do it right. Like the old saying goes, if you can't afford to do it right, can you afford to do it twice! I have removed hundreds of flywheels over the years and can't remember ever breaking a bolt.

I usually replace the clutch release bearing and the pilot bearing/bushing while I am in there too. You have done a substantial amount of work to take it apart and put it back together, you want to make it work right. Your pressure plate has a wear surface just like the surface of the flywheel and the heat from a slipping clutch can overheat the springs causing them to weaken and heat can warp the pressure plate preventing smooth and even application of the clutch. Having the proper finish on your new or resurfaced parts is vital, that surface is what helps the clutch disk to wear in properly without glazing. 

Prior to assembly always clean the mating surface of your flywheel and pressure plate well with a solvent like brakleen so that it is free of contaminants, just the metal parts not the clutch disk. Oil, grease or cosmoline (rust preventative) can burn on and cause glazing on your new clutch making it slip, grab or even fail prematurely.

Use an alignment tool to hold the clutch disk centered while you evenly tighten the pressure plate. You can eyeball it but an alignment tool will assure it is right and make mating the engine and trans back together much easier. Parts stores can usually get you a plastic alignment tool that looks identical to the input shaft of your transmission. You can use a universal cone type tool, it works but I find its always better having the splined shaft tool.

If your engine is leaking oil out of the rear seal then it needs to be fixed since it leaks right into the clutch housing. If it isn't leaking then leave it alone. If you have a hydraulic clutch inspect your slave cylinder for leaks also, you don't want that leaking in there either. On a mechanical clutch check the clutch fork and pivot point, if it is worn or cracked then replace it.

I don't know specifically about your particular vehicle; but most of the time when you pull the transmission in a front wheel drive you must at least partially support the engine. Usually by hanging it from above using a support structure that straddles the engine compartment. You will likely have to devise some way to hold the engine as removing the transmission also removes a major part of what holds the engine up in place. 

On many vehicles it is easier to just pull the engine, in spite of what the shop manual says. Some vehicles require the removal of major suspension and sub frame components to remove the trans-axle assembly. In some cases this is done by supporting the parts and lifting the entire car up with a hoist. Not saying that it can't be done in the home garage, but it may end up being harder than just going in through the top.


----------



## amodoko

Thanks for all that info, I basically agree (with what little knowledge I have on cars) with everything you said. 

The only things I can really comment on is I have looked everywhere... my shop manual, online, etc... and I can't find a replaceable pilot bearing/bushing in my car so it may not have one that can be replaced. 

And the other thing is about the rear main seal... I don't know how long those are supposed to last. But mine is 13 years old now with 80K miles on it so I don't know if it should be replaced even if it ISN'T leaking due to its age. I've never touched one, but I don't know if age itself takes a toll on that seal so I'm still questioning whether it should be replaced or not.

Anyways, I'm ready to get this thing started and finished. I just have to wait till I get a few days off of work so I can work on this.


----------



## jeespass

very nice and informative thread I like it so much.


----------

