# GAF Roof... the best



## EdPDX

I have a friend that is in the roofing business. He sells mostly the GAF line. He is advising me to get the GAF "system" with strictly GAF components.

So far the Timberline 30 or Ultra roof shingles are the only ones on the table. I live on the West Coast outside of GAF's "Cold Region".

My questions: On a souther exposure 4/12 no hip/valley/gable roof Do I need to use the Stormguard or weatherwatch? If so can I get by ok with just sheeting at the perimeter and pipe/vents? We never get anymore than a dusting of snow- occasionally an inch or 2 maybe once in a 4 year span. If I could get by without this without much concern I will; but having said that I don't mind spending the money if the benefits are strongly in place.

What about felt? I am told to get Leatherback to go with the Timberline. Is this going to make the install easier? Is it the best option? IS there a product that will do as good for less and not kill me on warranty later? 15 or 30... not sure what the diff is?
Lastly, the Ridge Cap. I have a DIY video that says I should just cut my own from shingles. The GAF system specifies use of TimberTex; but I don't see it as a condition of warranty. 
My home is 70' at the ridge. Are there better options?

Seems like it would be worth the diff of about $450 (18 squares) to upgrade from Tim30 to Tim Ultra. In 30 years if the roof fails and the GAF install guidelines for nailing/venting, etc., have been met, what can I expect in the way of Satisfaction if I am the installer?

Thanks,
Ed


----------



## RooferJim

GAF is certainly a good brand and the Timberlines have a great look. there certified contractor program has the best warranties in the industry no doubt. all my golden pledge warranty roofs are inspected by there inspector before they sign off on the warranty that covers 100% labor and materials. That said I also like ELK and Owens Corning as well, Certainteed has some shingles I like such as the Grand Manor and Hattaras, dont like there Landmarks though.

RooferJim


----------



## 747

Yep gaf has some nice looking roofs. I think the best one is the timberline color weather wood good look if house is in the clay or tan family of color. Finally alot of the guys roofing guys out of Illinois like the heritage 30 Ar which the two best colors in my oppion are age wood or weather wood.


----------



## MJW

Here are your mighty Timberlines. This is a job that we are supposed to fix. The company who shingled it a few years ago are long gone. These shingles are installed incorrectly and are nailed a little high. This is not my point. My point is that these shingles completely delaminated and rolled off the roof. There are cracks everywhere, they never sealed together. IMO, we have gone over and over this, for the shingles I use (all metric laminates), the Landmarks are the heaviest shingle. Elks are good, but they stick together. Elks seem to resist scarring the best. Timberlines are about the worst at everything.


----------



## RooferJim

you didnt put that roof on did you?? GAF like most other brands had some cracking problems in there fiberglass base shingles in the 1980s to very early 90s. they have made good on claims from what we have seen but most of the bad shingles in this area have been Bird and also Celotex. the Gaf Timberlines in the notheast come out of Baltimore and they have very few problems. although now there making Timberlines in Millis.Ma. ive tour there factory several times and i got to tell you they make a dam good shingle. I have also been to the Certainteed factory as well "its the old Bird plant", they are a good company as well. Elk is trying to get in up here, they seem good and my guys like them "but they hate metric".

RooferJim


----------



## MJW

Nope, did not do that one. Whoever did is now long gone.

I have been using some Elks lately, actually today. They are real similar to Timberline, but a little stronger. The with stand the heat as far as standing on them and not scarring. The reason I am not liking Elk lately is because of the tar they use and the way they are packaged. They stick together sooooo bad. You have to peal them apart two at a time. The tar sticks to the roof and to the hoses and yourself. It was 80 degrees today, but still. They are a bear to work with. Timberlines are the easiest to get apart, but are real thin and limpy. Landmarks stick together a little out of the bag, but they seem more stout when carrying the bundles and when you take them out one by one. As far as working with them, the old Tamko standard size laminates and the old Landmark standard size (4 bundles to a square) were by far the best.
The Elks I get are out of Ennis TX. The Landmarks are Shakopee MN, and the Timberlines I'm not sure, don't use them very much.


----------



## anewroof

*Gaf Roofing Inspectors*

 WHEN I HAD MY NEW ROOFS INSTALLED BY THE HOME DEPOT I WAS TOLD BY THE SALES MAN THAT GAF HAD TO APPROVE THE ROOF FOR QUALITY CONTROL. WHEN THE 2ND ROOF WAS APPROVED BY GAF I HAD ANOTHER ROOFING CONTRACTOR INSPECT IT. WOW WAS I SHOCKED TO FIND NO MATERIAL BETWEEN THE DECK AND THE SHINGLE AND IN OTHER PLACES THE ICE & SNOW MATERIAL DID NOT COVER THE DRIP EDGE. I WAS TOLD BY THE SALES MAN THAT IF THE ROOF INSTALLERS MADE ANY MISTAKES THE GAF INSPECTOR WOULD NOT APPROVE THE ROOF. MY WEB SITE IS www.freewebs.com/myroof

THANK YOU
DON WENZEL
OXFORD, MICHIGAN


----------



## AaronB

Regardless of your bad installers, MJW, the shingle brand has absolutley NOTHING to do with that roof failing. It is a bad install by a bad installer. Please be sure to include this info when badmouthing the wrong people.

CT landmarks are manufactured the same way, and if you high nail them, they will delaminate also. Sheesh.


----------



## MJW

Well, just the past few days I tore off another roof that has Timberlines on it. They were 6 years old and were all cracked and broken and slowly leaking. They were not racked either. It was a normal stair step pattern. Maybe the new ones are better, time will tell, but all the ones I have used and seen in the past were not a premium shingle.


----------



## RooferJim

six year old Timberline's cracking?? yeah right I dont think so. tell me another one.

RooferJim


----------



## MJW

I have seen this more than once. I roofed the house 6 years ago when it was new. Contractor used Timberlines. Just replaced the roof with Elks the other day.


----------



## manhattan42

*Won't Use GAFs*

For what it's worth, I will never use GAFs again.

I'm a builder and made the very large mistake of using GAF 25 year architectural Timberlines on my own house 11 years ago.

The retailer sent me mixed batches of shingles and GAF refused to help with the problem. GAF showed up to 'resolve' the issue only after 3 months.

They did nothing.

I eventually had to sue both the retailer and GAF for damages and won.

I will never use nor recommend GAF shingles as a professional again.

My personal favorites are IKO or TAMKO if you can get them in your area.

Star as far away from GAF and their shingles as you can possibly stay.

Bad juju..

VERY bad juju..

Avoid GAF like the Bubonic Plague....

In my professional and personal experience, GAF shingles are the absolute *WORST *that are out there....


----------



## AaronB

On what grounds did you sue GAF?


----------



## manhattan42

*Avoid GAF*

I named both the retailer and GAF in my suit based on their combined run-around and buck-passing and failure to address my legitimate complaints over a 6 month period.

GAF did not show up to defend the claims and lost the case by default.

Small wonder, they never showed up to inspect my legitmate claims for a defective product....

The retailer 'settled' before the trial and ended up paying me for the cost of the original shingles, the cost to rip them off and reinstall new ones, the cost for debris removal and the damages to my home's interior from water instrusion damages that I suffered during their period of doing nothing, and for the cost of all new shingles.

Whether the retailer ever go reimbursed as they claimed they should have been from GAF, I don't know.

All I know is that GAF did NOTHING to resolve the problem and I have told everyone within the sound of my voice to avoid GAF like the plague for the past decade or more.

Worst roofing company I've ever dealt with in 30 years...

If you want a good roofing product, GAF is not the place to find it...


----------



## AaronB

Why would GAF have to refund your money for the retailer sending you mixed batches of shingles? Im just not understanding your reasoning. Did they tell you they were not responsible for mixed shingle batches, the retailer is?


----------



## RooferJim

I have found GAF to be nothing but a stand up company. if I have a complaint "and its rare with them" they take care of it. and we install a lot of roofs.
best residential warranty in the industry, material& labor. off course you have to be a certified roofer and not just a builder or jack of all trades.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


----------



## manhattan42

*"Why would GAF have to refund your money for the retailer sending you mixed batches of shingles? Im just not understanding your reasoning. Did they tell you they were not responsible for mixed shingle batches, the retailer is?"*

Because GAF was contacted to help I and the retailer to determine just how much, if any, the different batches of shingles just might eventually blend in over time and avoid having to rip off the roof that had already been done.

GAF simply did nothing.

And their lack of assistance left both I and the retailer in limbo for months in trying to determine what proper method of recourse to take.

In the end the judge agreed that doing nothing was not an option because of their warranty obligations and ruled against them...since they did not even take the time to seriously investigate the potential warranty claim...nor even the suit I had filed against them.

Bottom line: Absolute WORST experience with a manufacturer I have ever experienced in 30 years of building.

Avoid GAF like the plague...They cannot be trusted and there are much better shingles on the market.


----------



## AaronB

Didnt you or the materail house read the wrappers?


----------



## manhattan42

*Doesn't Matter...*

Doesn't matter.

What mattered was that GAF didn't their read their openly stated WARRANTY promises and why the judge ruled against them...


----------



## RooferJim

if its a color blending issue and you racked them GAF could have got out of it. but like I said up here maybee its different. most people like them

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


----------



## AaronB

The wrappers I get say DO NOT mix color batch codes as differences in shade can occur and we assume no responsibility for it....(not reading the wrapper right now so this isnt an exact quote) I mean it is quite simple, and frivilous lawsuits will always be around as long as the judges allow. 

Good for you suing the wrong organization. Why dont I hear you bad mouthing the supplier? You had to sue them, afterall, and they were the entity that screwed up and didnt want to pay until they lost in court.

Why would GAF have to help the supplier fix supplier mistakes? Did you sue the roofer, too, for not making sure the batch codes were all the same? 

FRIVILOUS LAWSUITS HURT US ALL!


----------



## AaronB

Come to think of it, youre the builder...it was YOUR responsibility to make sure all the bundles were the same.

Is this just another case of somebody not owning up to their own mistakes?


----------



## manhattan42

No this has become a case of someone who wants to be argumentative and blame the victim because they apparantly make their living by installing GAF shingles and doesn't like anyone telling the truth about how bad GAF is in servicing not only their retailers, but even their professional end users.

Transmission Over.

Buyer BEWARE.

Avoid GAF shingles....and those who tell you the company is upright and makes a good product....


----------



## AaronB

If thats what you believe, then substitute any shingle mfg. It is all the same...you did not want to take the rap for screwing it up.

You were responsible for making sure it was right, and you did not. Then you sued somebody else over the supplier's as well as your oversight. Real nice.


----------



## AaronB

Also, I hardly ever do any shingle work.


----------



## tcardco

Manhattan42:

I must agree with your assessment regarding GAF product and corporate policy. 
1. Although all present product appears to be OK, GAF had huge problems about 10-15 years ago with their shingles: cold cracking, lamination failure, etc. 
2. The company policy was to deny any problems existed. When the failures became widespread, GAF begain to quietly address the complaints on a case by case basis. Sometimes they would pay for only the shingles. Other times they would pay material and labor. 
3. Over all, they did at terrible job addressing the problem WHICH WAS THEIRS.
4. My company's primary lumberyard - I am a general contractor - stands behind all the products they sell and quicky replaced failing GAF roofs all over the shoreline area in CT, per GAF's OK. Problem was GAF never reimbursed them! 
5. Needless to say, I will never buy or specify GAF shingles again. The product may be okay now, but the company has no honor.


----------



## christy123

Ok...I am looking to put a new roof on my house. I was leaning towards GAF but after reading all these post, I feel like i should look elsewhere. Can you guys point me to good shingles brand. I live on the East Coast in New England area.

Thanks


----------



## RooferJim

Yes GAF. dont believe everything you read. ELK is also pretty good. GAF has the best warranties in the indusrtry though.

RooferJim
Massachusetts
www.jbennetteroofing.com


----------



## pmaru77

AaronB said:


> Why would GAF have to refund your money for the retailer sending you mixed batches of shingles? Im just not understanding your reasoning. Did they tell you they were not responsible for mixed shingle batches, the retailer is?


 
It sounds to me that the RETAILER gave him a bunch of mixed bag shingles and the RETAILER refunded him....not GAF. I think it may say right on the package that you should make sure all shingles are from the same "lot". It did on my Cornings.


----------



## 20plusyearroofer

This was your goof manhatten42 for not looking at the lot numbers and for leaving the customer in limbo for months while you tried to shirk the blame.You are right about one thing though, GAF is a lowbrow manufacturer and shoul be avoided at all costs. CertainTeed makes the best products on the market and ,despite rooferjims take on the subject, provide the best warranties which they also back up (unlike GAF who will promise anything before dissapearing under thier rock)


----------



## RooferJim

The GAF Golden Pledge warranty is without a doubt the best warranty in the residential roofing industry, of course your roof has to be installed by a certified applicator and inspected by a GAF inspector it is not available to just any roofer so some may not be familiar with it. the details are available on there website as well as details on there other upgraded warranties. Certainteed is good but the coverage dosnt come close. GAF most certainly does stand by there product, in the rare event "over 20 years of installing it" there is a concern the rep comes right out and its rectified. Get the facts guys http://www.gaf.com/General/ContLocate1.asp?WS=GAF&Silo=RES1&App=CONT&Uid=

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


----------



## 20plusyearroofer

Sorry Jim, but I gotta disagree. A decade ago GAF was one of the worst products on the market and though they've come a long way as far as quality, I still can't see my way clear to trust them. CertainTeeds quality has never been questionable, nor has their reputation for standing behind thier warranties. As far as the golden pledge warranty, if you check you'll find that it's a direct copycat of the CertainTeed Integrity warranty (also only available from certified installers) that was on the market well before GAF's. Also GAF's new design for "Country Mansion" is a direct result of a patent infringement law suit for copying CertainTeeds "Grand Manor" line of shingles, which tells me that GAF doesn't mind litigation now any more than they did ten years ago. Anyway Jim, only time will tell which company backs their extended warranties better. Maybe in 30 years we'll sit on the porch of the old roofers home and debate it some more, but for now I do believe that CertainTeeds history and reputation are on my side.


----------



## RooferJim

Thats OK we can agree to disagree on this. Your facts are off though Golden pledge warranty started in 1997. We are also applicators for Certainteed but after they bought out Bird "where most of the northeast product comes from" and then Certainteed themselves were bought out by a French company "Saint Gobain" It changed. I do however really like there Shangle products and know that there reps do stand by there products as well. Gaf and Certainteed both make a good product in general.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


----------



## Truthislight

Would someone tell me why roofs all over the US have awful streaks running down the roofs. It is apparent that the streaks are from the grit coming off. Having talked to these owners, most of the roofs are under 10 years old and some are under five years old. 

Our roof started streaking when it was two years old. The roof is a Timberline 30 year roof and there is more grit on the ground than there is on the roof. In our subdivision alone 50% of the homes are experiencing this problem. Any answers?


----------



## Ed the Roofer

The following information from 3M ScotchGuard may answer your questions.

Here is the link too.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...ions/Products/Scotchgard-Algae-Resistant/FAQ/

Ed

Following are questions and answers that provide detailed, helpful information about algae staining on asphalt shingle roofs.


*What causes black streaks on asphalt roof shingles?*

Unsightly black stains on shingles are often mistaken for fungus, mildew, dirt or oil, but are actually caused by a hardy type of algae. This common problem has increased during the past 20 years, indiscriminately settling on rooftops from coast to coast. Dark algae streaks are visible when algae cover the normally vibrant colors of white, cobalt blue or hunter green roofing granules.


*How do algae grow?*

The primary type of algae found on rooftops - Gloeocapsa magma - thrives in humid environments, often appearing first on the north slope of a roof where extra shade and moisture support its growth. Algae can derive mineral nutrients from fillers such as calcium carbonate in asphalt shingles. Increased use of moisture attracting calcium carbonate fillers cause asphalt shingles to retain moisture longer, thus promoting algae growth.

Return to top of FAQ page


*Why are algae black?*

The organism Gloeocapsa produces a dark-pigmented sheath to protect itself from ultra-violet rays. By the time the black streaks are noticeable, the algae usually have been growing for months or years - the result of generations of dead algae cells built up over time.

Return to top of FAQ page


*Are algae harmful to shingles?*

There are no proven damaging effects of algae accumulation on shingles. However, the dark algae streaks are the number one appearance-related problem reported to roofing contractors. Consumers commonly mistake the dark stains for faulty shingles, leading them to complain to the contractor or manufacturer about a shingle's performance.

Return to top of FAQ page


*How do algae stains spread?*

When environmental conditions are right for algae development, the problem rapidly expands, covering an entire roof. Once algae are present in an area, airborne spores are carried from rooftop to rooftop, infesting whole neighborhoods. All roof types, including wood shakes, concrete and clay tile, and asphalt shingles are susceptible to algae infestation.

Return to top of FAQ page


*What methods are available to clean an algae-infested roof if a homeowner isn't ready to replace the roof?*

Cleaning is the most commonly used homeowner defense against algae build-up on asphalt roofing shingles, but at best, it's only a "quick fix." Typically, roofs must be cleaned frequently to minimize obvious staining. Not only are repeated cleanings costly ($400 - $700), but some cleaning methods can damage a roof and shorten the life of the shingles. Excessive scrubbing or power washing loosens the granules - and in essence, the color. It also deteriorates the asphalt once the protective granules are lost due to sunlight, causing further degradation to the shingle. Potent bleach solutions also can damage shrubs and bushes, and can be caustic to the homeowner or roof cleaner.

Return to top of FAQ page


*What is the most effective asphalt shingle product available to inhibit algae growth and prevent the black staining?*

Look for the Scotchgard™ Algae Resistant Roofing System logo on quality shingle brands. The Scotchgard™ Algae Resistant Roofing System means protection. Many shingles feature algae resistance. But your assurance of the optimal long-term protection from granule discoloration due to algae can only be achieved when the precise level of granules with Scotchgard™ protection is uniformly distributed across the surface of the shingle in combination with standard colored granules.

Return to top of FAQ page


*How can a homeowner be sure of the performance of an Algae Resistant (AR) product?*

Consult with a quality professional roofing contractor about asphalt shingles with built-in Scotchgard™ protection. The Scotchgard™ Algae Resistant Roofing System logo on quality shingle brands is your assurance of the optimal long-term protection from algae staining.

Return to top of FAQ page


*Do asphalt shingles with built-in Scotchgard™ protection cost more than regular asphalt shingles?*

Generally yes, but many experts and homeowners agree that it's much less expensive to prevent algae growth from the outset. The price difference is minimal when one faces the accumulated cost of frequent roof cleanings. The extra cost associated with built-in Scotchgard™ protection refers to the materials only, because the labor cost to install these shingles is the same as it is for regular shingles.


----------



## Truthislight

It appears to me to be a problem of the grit coming off. Most of these homes have heavy grit the roof drains and all over their patios. I don't think algae would cause the grit to crumble. Also most that I have talked with do not have algae problems anywhere else. We do not even have algae on our pond. When I asked one man that does roofing, he stated to me that companies were not baking the grit on long enough and the end result was storms, heavy rains, etc would start the grit coming off and it is down hill from there.

Being from a family with many degreed engineers, we don't see an algae problem, nor do we see that as a problem for most of the folks that we have talked with. Our roof was only 2 years old when we started seeing heavy grit on the ground.

It almost appears that a class action suit for poorly manufactured roofing tiles is the answer. We are gathering the info the start one. Thanks for the information you provided, but something just is not right.


----------



## Malcolm

Truthislight said:


> It appears to me to be a problem of the grit coming off. Most of these homes have heavy grit the roof drains and all over their patios. I don't think algae would cause the grit to crumble. Also most that I have talked with do not have algae problems anywhere else. We do not even have algae on our pond. When I asked one man that does roofing, he stated to me that companies were not baking the grit on long enough and the end result was storms, heavy rains, etc would start the grit coming off and it is down hill from there.
> 
> Being from a family with many degreed engineers, we don't see an algae problem, nor do we see that as a problem for most of the folks that we have talked with. Our roof was only 2 years old when we started seeing heavy grit on the ground.
> 
> It almost appears that a class action suit for poorly manufactured roofing tiles is the answer. We are gathering the info the start one. Thanks for the information you provided, but something just is not right.


Why don't you file a claim with GAF? I don't know why a class action suit would be the answer, unless you are an attorney trying to make money. You should just deal with your own individual case. I assume you haven't contacted a roofing company to take a look at it nor have you contacted GAF.


----------



## Kembury

*GAF Horror Story*

I have been having enormous problems with GAF and would very much appreciate hearing from anyone who has had difficulties dealing with them. GAF has have been giving me the run-around forever. I have a "golden pledge" warranty and have had huge problems with this roof from the beginning. Any advice anyone can provide would be very welcome.


----------



## Docfletcher

I will take license here and ask that you give the pros on the board particulars of your dealings with GAF. How long is forever, where are you located, what are the specific issues with the roof, how old now, and who have you been talking to with regard to the roof issues?


----------



## Kembury

*GAF Horror Story*

It has been going on since 2002 when the roof was installed. There were problems from the very outset--they tore off old the old shingles and slate below that, and just hurled the stuff off the roof, chewing up the (just painted) woodwork on my porches and external staircases, getting black soot in all of my and my neighbor's windows (through the screens, I had to pay to have the neighbor's house cleaned). The ridge vent was obviously installed wrong, but fortunately by brother was here and saw it and made them replace it. It has been leaking since. They came back and slapped a but a caulk all over the place, I'd fix the ceiling and have it repainted, and the leaks would show up again. I have called GAF and the roofer innumerable times. I BEGGED GAF to let me use another GAF certified contractor, but they said I had to use the same roofer. He ended up claiming there was a problem with the chimney, and GAF wouldn't do anything until I got the chimney fixed. I had 3 different masons come out and tell me the problem was NOT the chimney, and still the roofer and GAF would not do anything. I ended up paying a mason to work on the chimney anyway, even though he said it wouldn't stop the leak, because GAF wanted documentation that the chimeny had been worked on. In the meantime, I can see the flashing flapping in the breeze and exposed nailheads all over the place. The first roofer evenutally stopped calling me back and then disappeared. Eventually GAF sent another company, and the guys who came out said the whole roof should be replace, it is too much to repair. GAF is balking and stalling and saying that they are waiting for estimates on the repairs...they always promise to call back and I end up having to pursue them and get no satisfaction. It is beyond unbelievable. 

I now have substantial damage inside all over the house and can only imagine what is going on with the sheathing, etc. It actually gets worse from here, but I think you get the idea. The ONLY reason I went with the roofer at all was because of the Golden Pledge warranty--they were the highest estimate I received. And BTW: the roof never leaked before they worked on it--I was doing the work prospectively, because the I knew the roof would need to be replaced fairly soon, and I didn't want to wait until I had a problem. I think "Horror Story" is mild in this case.


----------



## Ed the Roofer

If your facts are true and undisputed, you should have already seen an attorney to file a claim and a suit against both, the roofing contractor and the GAF Corporation, due to their Golden Pledge Waranty Promises made but not delivered upon your home.

Digital photos of the work in question on the roof and the flashings blowing around would be appreciated for a better analysis.

Also, I do not believe that GAF would have any liability for the dirt and other non-roof installation issues you mentioned. That would have been the roofing contractors liability insurance policy coverage.

Ed


----------



## the roofing god

mjw-the shingles are on as steep pitch and are not 6 nailed,and you HAVE to nail in the nail line or that will happen w/any brand,also w/splitting and cracking ,usually other issues are at hand like insufficient insulation and/or lack af appropriate ventilation which allow heat and moisture to attack the unprotected bottom of the shingle(just like ice under pavement causing heaving problems),as far as mixed batches of shingles go,blame the guy who ordered them and the guy who checked them at time of delivery,because it even states on the bundles not to mix materials bearing different lot numbers,these things happen w/ any supplier---as far as shingles go 50 yr is worth the extra money but be sure the house/building is insulated and vented properly,including venting such items as bathroom fans up and thru the roof,I like GAF,&TAMKO,BUT IN YOUR AREA IF AVAILABLE THE MALARKEY has a GREAT reputation,shingle cap can be cut from 3-tabs if the color matches for the same quality results and a little less $,but bottom line:the roof of your house is not the place to skimp on money-GOOD LUCK


----------



## Docfletcher

FYI Malarkey uses Scotchgard with the 50yr. For some unknown reason consumers reports rated them #12 out of a field of 15. Gaf ultra was number 4. Certainteed landmark 50 #2 and Grand mannor #1. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ed the Roofer

Malarkey is probably rated so low because they are not readily available nation wide and do not have the brand awareness with most consumers.

If my suppliers carried them, I definitely would offer them as an upgraded option due to the modified bitumen in the make-up of the shingle.

Plus, consumers are not who should be asked ablout the quality of a roofing shingle product, roofing contractors are.

Except for their bias towards which ever brand their supplier recommends and offers a consistently valued price level, their opinions would count more because they deal with the prodsucts on a day to day basis.

Ed


----------



## Docfletcher

I wish I knew how consumers reports tested these shingles. Certainteed grand manor came in with excellent strength, very good wind, excellent weathering, and very good impact. So I suppose one could say it is their benchmark. Malarkey strength came in good, wind good, weathering excellent, impact very good. The qualitys that are most important to me are strength and weathering. :yes:


----------



## the roofing god

I love GRAND MANOR,but my roof contractor friends in those areas swear by the MALARKEY brand,what ed said is very true about how they get their ratings


----------



## Docfletcher

Maybe, maybe not. I still don't know how they test them. I'm fairly sure they have a testing facility with wind and other weather conditions. But I would like to know the time frame and how they do it.:yes:


----------



## the roofing god

ANOTHER SITUATION where money talks,and quality suffers as a result


----------



## Ed the Roofer

It is probably just a review of customer satisfaction surveys.

Ed


----------



## the roofing god

or talking to the wrong people:whistling2:


----------



## the roofing god

I do like GAF though:yes:


----------



## Kembury

Since GAF is refusing to deal with my leaks, I want to get an objective, disinterested expert to review the job a write a report. Is there any sort of professional organization for roofers? Or does anyone have any suggestions about how I should go about this?

Many thanks for any assistance.


----------



## MJW

Kembury said:


> Since GAF is refusing to deal with my leaks, I want to get an objective, disinterested expert to review the job a write a report. Is there any sort of professional organization for roofers? Or does anyone have any suggestions about how I should go about this?
> 
> Many thanks for any assistance.


That's called a lawyer.


----------



## the roofing god

you might look for a local contractor/inspector/consultant-yellow pages


----------



## Kembury

*HUGE Problems with GAF*

I just got off the phone with GAF about my badly leaking roof and still no progress. IMO, those of you who are professionals are doing your clients an enormous disservice in directing people to use their products.


----------



## Docfletcher

Can you go up into the attic space? Can you see where it is leaking? Remember water will flow down hill so you should be able to trace the leaks back to the source. How many leaks are we talking about (Best Guess)


----------



## Kembury

*GAF / Timberline Problems*

I have called a lawyer, but I still need a roofer, and I will need to document the current situation if I have any hope of getting GAF to meet their responsibility.

In terms of the leaks, there isn't any attic to speak of. The worst of the leaks is in a bedroom near the chimney. (The problem is not the chimney, I had three guys in to look at it, all refused to work on b/c it would not solve the problem.)

There are also leaks near a dormer in another room, and under the windows on two floors under a bay that they did a bad job on (I believe they came back and blobbed some caulk on it at one point, I'd have to check my notes).


----------



## Docfletcher

I know it don't help but I am sorry you are being put through this ordeal.
I hope it all gets worked out.


----------



## Kembury

*Crumbling Timberline shingles*

Thanks very much. It is really awful. Did I mention that the GAF-certified contractor was the highest bidder?? By a good margin. . . 

On a happier (??) note, I've been noticing that there have been more birds around lately, particularly sitting on the edge of my gutters. Than I realized that this is because they are eating the the accumulated stuff that has crumbled off of the shingles (I think birds eat grit to aid their digestion). So at least the birds are getting some benefit--although I didn't expect to be feeding the 40-year Timberlines to the birds for quite a while...


----------



## FatAugie

Kembury said:


> On a happier (??) note, I've been noticing that there have been more birds around lately, particularly sitting on the edge of my gutters. Than I realized that this is because they are eating the the accumulated stuff that has crumbled off of the shingles (I think birds eat grit to aid their digestion). .


Wrong, wrong wrong. 

Birds don't eat grit, gravel, dust or dirt. 

Yes, I know what I'm talking about. There's not much I do know for sure, but this is one.

I'm sorry this has been a nightmare for you, I'm getting ready to install some GAF Timberline's on my roof and I do not expect to have a problem.


----------



## Kembury

OK, thanks--I'll tell the sparrows to knock it off! 

--And good luck with your roof--I didn't expect to have a problem either, but so it goes.


----------



## Docfletcher

The birds are eating insects. Probably ants. Possibly carpenter ants. If the wood is moist under the shingles the ants will have a field day. Carpenter ants eat decaying moist wood. Blue Jays will actually lift up your shingle slightly to get to the bug.


----------



## Kembury

*GAF / Timberline Problems*

Carpenter ants. Great. It just keeps getting worse and worse.


----------



## Docfletcher

Well, it may not be that at all.


----------



## FatAugie

It could be something simpler, but no less frustrating...they may be looking for a place to nest. 

Without going into a ton o detail, the roof I have now was installed wrong and they managed to line up the butt joints for the first row of shingles with the starter row. So, in between the rain channels, the only thing between the decking and the world was felt paper. Yah! 

For years, there was a piece of the soffit hanging low and birds would nest in the soffit area. This year, I said enough of that and closed it up. I actually did that last year as well, but they managed to work it back down. So this year, I really wedged it back into place and it was holding for quite a while. One day, I'm on my computer and I hear scratching coming from the attic area. Great, I trapped a bird up there. Well, no, I didn't. Turns out, the little bastards were drilling through the weak wood in between the channels in the first row. By the time I figured it out and went out to patch it...they had a hole I could stick my hand in. A sheet of aluminum later, problem solved.


----------



## Docfletcher

:laughing:


----------



## SWilliams

*GAF Timberline*

I have been hearing that GAF Timberlines have been cracking and that a new lawsuit is being looked into. I was reading about the lawsuit at this legal representation site Has anyone else heard about this?


----------



## MJW

SWilliams said:


> I have been hearing that GAF Timberlines have been cracking and that a new lawsuit is being looked into. I was reading about the lawsuit at this legal representation site Has anyone else heard about this?


Known about the problem for years, but who listens to me.............:no:


----------



## SWilliams

*GAF Timberline*

I hear ya. Seems only way to stop it is to take them to task.


----------



## Slyfox

MJW said:


> Known about the problem for years, but who listens to me.............:no:


Since the storm closed the plant in question (mentioned in suit) I assume that suit will settle pretty quick, shouldn't last almost 3 decades like Certainteeds did anyhow.

BTW, the new CT owners are there again to, siding issues this time.


----------



## dougger222

My house was built in 2003 with 30 year Timberline shingles. This Summer had gutters put on so measured it and did an eagleview report to help with gutter measurements (2 tarrets and 34ft eave height on half the house, 52sq's). Found cracks on shingles and several shingles with excessive granular loss on the bottom edge.

I've yet to be on a roof with Timberlines older than 10 years without thermal cracks. Don't matter if they are 30's or 40's both crack the same.

Was on one roof however with OC Oakridge which I thought were Timberlines as they had cracks all over at 7 years.

Been on a handfull of Landmark roofs at 10 years with NO cracks...


----------



## MJW

Slyfox said:


> Since the storm closed the plant in question (mentioned in suit) I assume that suit will settle pretty quick, shouldn't last almost 3 decades like Certainteeds did anyhow.
> 
> BTW, the new CT owners are there again to, siding issues this time.


Their siding is no good, especially the barn red color. :no:


----------



## MJW

dougger222 said:


> My house was built in 2003 with 30 year Timberline shingles. This Summer had gutters put on so measured it and did an eagleview report to help with gutter measurements (2 tarrets and 34ft eave height on half the house, 52sq's). Found cracks on shingles and several shingles with excessive granular loss on the bottom edge.
> 
> I've yet to be on a roof with Timberlines older than 10 years without thermal cracks. *Don't matter if they are 30's or 40's both crack the same.
> *
> Was on one roof however with OC Oakridge which I thought were Timberlines as they had cracks all over at 7 years.
> 
> Been on a handfull of Landmark roofs at 10 years with NO cracks...



Yup. :thumbsup:

Must be just our region because I don't see many complaints anywhere else.... not sure.


----------



## Slyfox

MJW said:


> Their siding is no good, especially the barn red color. :no:


I actually like their siding, it's done fairly well in my area.


----------

