# Suggestions For A Winter Beater Vehicle Anyone?



## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

It depends on whether you want a car based or truck based vehicle. I prefer truck based, they sit higher and are body on frame construction.
I have owned several GM S Blazers and pickups with the 4.3 engines. They typically last until everything underneath rusts out which is 250,000 miles in a similar western NY climate. They work well in winter conditions.


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

Old Thomas said:


> It depends on whether you want a car based or truck based vehicle. I prefer truck based, they sit higher and are body on frame construction.
> I have owned several GM S Blazers and pickups with the 4.3 engines. They typically last until everything underneath rusts out which is 250,000 miles in a similar western NY climate. They work well in winter conditions.


good suggestion, forgot about the trusty blazer, had an 88' back in 1995 or so.. UNFORTUNATELY none that are worthy in my area.. at least not on Craigslist, or FBM.. 

Any other suggestions?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Only thing to worry about with the Outback is the head gasket.

You could also consider the Acura MDX or Honda CR-V.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yup... There are some typical issues with Subaru boxer engines. For bulletproof reliability and AWD get the Toyota Rav 4 or Honda CR-V. My GF has a CR-V and it has been flawless and the utility factor is very high for a compact vehicle. Of course, the trick with any used car purchase is to find one with reasonably low miles and that has been well maintained so those should be your main criteria.



huesmann said:


> Only thing to worry about with the Outback is the head gasket.
> 
> You could also consider the Acura MDX or Honda CR-V.


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## shelzmike (Feb 9, 2012)

A 2003-ish (years prior or after) Chevy Tracker or Grand Vitara..everything you have asked for, plus those Suzuki motors (even the one in the Chevy) are pretty freaking rock solid Had one myself for a really long time and it worked absolutely great in the snow. I'd imagine they'd be around that price..maybe even a bit cheaper if you can find one. V6, so great on gas, plus true, shiftable 4WD. 

As for the one I had, I sold it due to not having any room to park it and having too many cars. I sold it to a guy that works for me 2 years ago and he runs the hell out of it and says it still runs great. The exterior paint is pretty lousy, especially on the black ones, but hey..you said beater


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Also, what is your regular DD?


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Only thing to worry about with the Outback is the head gasket.
> 
> You could also consider the Acura MDX or Honda CR-V.





raylo32 said:


> Yup... There are some typical issues with Subaru boxer engines. For bulletproof reliability and AWD get the Toyota Rav 4 or Honda CR-V. My GF has a CR-V and it has been flawless and the utility factor is very high for a compact vehicle. Of course, the trick with any used car purchase is to find one with reasonably low miles and that has been well maintained so those should be your main criteria.





> Joey the best subaru guy in the state did redid the heads with new head gaskets timing belt water pump and all associated items at 141k. Runs great no leaks rattles clunking etc. Interior is clean and everything works as it should power windows locks keyless cd heat ac etc. Was the wife's daily vehicle and when the timing belt went she decided to get a bigger suv.


Gotcha, but per the seller as shown above, this seems to have been taken care.. My only worry is if I read that right, it seems the belt "went" so what exactly does that mean right? 

Anyways, the other pickle keeping me from buying that one right now is that KBB, Edmunds, and Nada list the value at $2800 in excellent condition but he is asking for almost a cool $1000 over that, $3700..

2008 Subaru Outback


I welcome any input on how to thread the needle on this one..


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Also, what is your regular DD?



My daily driver is what got me into this mess, its the *ultra rare* 5MT w/LSD GGP 2002 Lexus IS300!!

Hit 110K miles and took it in to the *STEALER*ship for its way past due 90k/10yr maintenance...

You fellers don't even want to know how much they quoted me.. 

Sure we call them the STEALership but TRUST ME on this one, they..well, wow, lets jus say I will never ever NOT call them by that name again..


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I don't have a broad enough range of knowledge of vehicles to make suggestions there, but I'll make a couple on other aspects:

1) For starting a vehicle in extremely cold weather, a battery heater is the most effective way to get it going, at least for a fuel injected engine. Engine heaters help with longevity of the engine, though, so having both isn't a bad idea.

2) If you want the best traction on the ice and snow use real winter tires. If you want to save some money in the long run, grab an extra set of rims, so you can have your 'winter wheels' and your 'summer wheels' and you don't have to pay for mounting and balancing twice a year. Otherwise, look carefully at the reviews and ratings for the all-season tires (tirerack is a great source of info). I'll add this one caution - if you see a tire that gets great reviews for ice and snow traction *and* an 80,000 mile treadwear warranty, *beware*! You don't get both at the same time. It's usually accomplished by using a softer, 'grippier' compound on the outer half of the tread and a harder compound in the bottom half, so when they reach that 6/32" tread depth, watch out! You'll be sliding all over the place.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, we DO want to know. I like to file away this sort of info for future decisions.

So the 10 year maintenance probably includes: spark plugs and wires, coolant flush/change, trans service and fluid replacement, timing belt (or was that done at 60k?), engine and cabin air filters... etc. Anything else?



Sean Price said:


> My daily driver is what got me into this mess, its the *ultra rare* 5MT w/LSD GGP 2002 Lexus IS300!!
> 
> Hit 110K miles and took it in to the *STEALER*ship for its way past due 90k/10yr maintenance...
> 
> ...


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Sean Price said:


> Gotcha, but per the seller as shown above, this seems to have been taken care.. My only worry is if I read that right, it seems the belt "went" so what exactly does that mean right?
> 
> Anyways, the other pickle keeping me from buying that one right now is that KBB, Edmunds, and Nada list the value at $2800 in excellent condition but he is asking for almost a cool $1000 over that, $3700..
> 
> ...


KBB/Edmunds etc. start losing value with older cars where condition can be more important than age or miles.

As far the as the TB, it's an interference engine (Subies after 1996), so if the belt went, the pistons would keep pumping away (at least until timing failed and ignition stopped), and you'd end up with the valves getting smashed by the pistons. If it happened to this guy's wife, could be valve, piston, or head replacement, depending on the damage.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Sean, get Subaru. Don't do RAV.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

In the ad, I noticed he says the heads have been redone. That was likely necessitated by the timing belt snapping, so there shouldn't be anything to worry about with that. Still, according to KBB, $3700 is high, even for a private party sale of one in excellent condition. Personally, I would contact the seller, point him to the blue book, and make a firm offer of about $3200 ($3000 + $200 for the new tires). If he won't agree to that, I'd look elsewhere. That's what I would do, but that's me. $3700 isn't outrageous, There's lots of vehicles for sale at really good prices right now.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Sean Price said:


> My daily driver is what got me into this mess, its the *ultra rare* 5MT w/LSD GGP 2002 Lexus IS300!!


Your daily driver has LSD? Far out, man! It must be great for taking trips.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Old Thomas said:


> Your daily driver has LSD? Far out, man! It must be great for taking trips.


🤣


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> In the ad, I noticed he says the heads have been redone. That was likely necessitated by the timing belt snapping, so there shouldn't be anything to worry about with that. Still, according to KBB, $3700 is high, even for a private party sale of one in excellent condition. Personally, I would contact the seller, point him to the blue book, and make a firm offer of about $3200 ($3000 + $200 for the new tires). If he won't agree to that, I'd look elsewhere. That's what I would do, but that's me. $3700 isn't outrageous, There's lots of vehicles for sale at really good prices right now.


We paid $3k for an '06 Outback wagon with 245k on it about 2 years ago. Seemed like a reasonable deal at the time. The one you're interested in is much older, but has much less mileage, so...?


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> *Yes, we DO want to know. I like to file away this sort of info for future decisions.*
> 
> So the 10 year maintenance probably includes: spark plugs and wires, coolant flush/change, trans service and fluid replacement, timing belt (or was that done at 60k?), engine and cabin air filters... etc. Anything else?



I *warned you* but you asked for it...

So took my 2002 Lexus IS300 5MT 110k miles into the Lexus *STEAL*ership for the big 10yr/90K mile service... Sure I'm about 8yrs or 20k miles overdue but still was not prepared for what they quoted me on my _KBB $5000 valued whip_...

*$18,000!!!!!!!!!!!!* Yes as in *EIGHTTEEN THOUSAND dollars*, emphasis on the THOUSAND... again thats $18,0000!!!

Yes, I had them triple check to make sure that was the correct amount, yes they confirmed it was correct, keep in mind I was only expecting $1500-1800 MAX for the timing/belt water pump change..

To say I was beyond shocked would be an understatement... Anyways here is the break down for that are curious..

*Engine Work -* _$5000_
- timing belt
-water pump

VVT-I gear
Timing Belt tensioner
Drive/fan belt replacement + Belt tensioner
Valve Cover Gasket Replacement
Spark Plugs
Spark Plug wires
Spark plug distr cap

*Exhaust System -* _$7000_
- INCLUDE MANIFOLD AND EVERTHING BACK EVEN MUFFLER AND GASKETS BOLTS AND SPRINGS = $7K 
^^ direct quote from dealer, no idea what any of that means, so if someone can translate or ELI5 it for me...

*Brakes and Wheels -* _$4100_

Brake Calipers: both rears and fronts = $1400
Pads and Rotors: both fronts and rears = $1400
Wheel Bearings: front x2= $1300

*MISC -* _$2100_

Air Fuel Sensor: both banks (no idea what this is?) = $700
o2 Sensor: front = $400
o2 Sensor: rear = $375
Throttle Body With Fuel Injection Cleaning $210
Transmission and Differential Replacement $425

So yeah... there you have it and yes i told em they can stick it where the sun don't shine... Went to the top 2 rated shops in my area and they quoted me $3800 and $4200 respectively for the enginer work, but a turn around time of 14 days..

So....... went back to Lexus, because of 3 reasons..

#1 - 1 day turnaround time, drop off Wedn morning would have by Thursday evening at the latest
#2 - Its Lexus, not sure if I trusted the other shops, even tho highly related, talking to em did not inspire confidence in their work on an 18yr old Lexus..
#3 - The $3800/4200 quotes didn't save me much, based on #1 and #2 above, it was worth extra $1000 for Lexus to do it. Also quotes were conditional, not only would I have to wait 2 weeks for them to even start, but they want to inspect first and may decline if car is in bad shape.. 

So yeah, told Lexus I was ok with the $5K quote for the engine work ONLY, and that was that. Of course come Thursday, they call me to tell me that the car won't be ready until Friday, because some of the stuff was so rusted out, took more time.. Friday comes and of course, they tell me the radiator CRUMBLED upon coming out and now they have to order a new one, and so car won't be ready until Monday.. 

So they gave me a 2020 IS300 to putz around in to hold me over.. THEY knew what they were doing.. I'm and avid IS300 lover obviously but even I had no idea that they actually brought the IS300 back in 2019, like actual remake and not the 2nd gen version of it called the IS250. 

I cannot lie, that 2020 IS300 was the [email protected] I actually had to travel(which was the urgency/rush on fixing mine) and of course took that '20 IS300 instead, I must have put on about 3000 miles on it and it was a hoot! 

PHEW< this is getting long, anyways.. 

Yeah so my car is now in my hands and the [email protected] does feel brand new, but still has a longer road to recovery left.. mainly exhaust and brake/wheel work left to go...


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

$1400 for brakes and rotors,$7k for exhaust? Even on a Lexus, the exhaust should be under $1k and pads and rotors should only be about $300. Replacing calipers are a popular item for shops, but it's rarely needed. Same with wheel bearings - if they're not making noise, it's unlikely they need replaced. 

Only $425 to replace the transmission and differential? My guess is that's fluid replacement, which can typically be done at any number of places for around $200 (or in many cases it can be a DIY project for about $80 worth of transmission fluid).


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> $1400 for brakes an


outrageous right? 

What really gets me is the $7K for exhaust tho... I mean what exactly does that $7K get me? 


I guess maybe I don't know as much about exhaust systems as I thought? 

How much should a new manifold and everything back behind it cost me?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Sean Price said:


> outrageous right?
> 
> What really gets me is the $7K for exhaust tho... I mean what exactly does that $7K get me?
> 
> ...


Even with replacing the manifold (which is rarely necessary), $7k is ridiculous. Did they give you any indication of why the manifold needed to be replaced.

I think all of it is way too expensive and most of it is unnecessary. I would take it to an independent shop, and have them check it out and tell you what they think it *needs*. You can eliminate anything that doesn't come up in both quotes.

Do the brakes work? If so, you probably don't need to do anything. If the rotors are going to be replaced when you change the pads, anyway (rotors should be replaced or machined when the pads are replaced, and for most cars, machining costs more than the new rotors, from online sources, anyway), it makes no difference if they wear out completely.

The dealership was probably hoping that you'd trade it in for next to nothing (and thank them for taking it off your hands) and get the new one they loaned you.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Sean Price said:


> #2 - Its Lexus, not sure if I trusted the other shops, even tho highly related, talking to em did not inspire confidence in their work on an 18yr old Lexus..


Come on man, it's really just a Toyota.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> Come on man, it's really just a Toyota.


Exactly!


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I guess I never do a lot of that stuff "routinely" but will let it RTF (Run to Failure). Not the timing belt, of course. But I am dealing with a bit of a similar exhaust issue with my trusty (rusty?) 2009 Tacoma. The muffler finally gave way and opened up a hole. The rest of the pipes look pretty good except at the flanges. IOW I can get a new cat back exhaust, but I am not sure the threads in the flange where it bolts up to the y-pipe are intact. And then you go from there a couple more flanges to the cats and the exhaust manifolds. I hope I don't have to chase it all the way back and replace all that stuff just to put on the new muffler. That would get very $$$. As this is my DD and my other car can't really come out of my one car garage much in winter this is a bit of a dilemma. For now some metal HVAC tape is gonna have to serve.


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## Sean Price (Dec 17, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Come on man, it's really just a Toyota.


My bad, I mispoke... 

I only meant it in as this..

Dealer said they had the parts on hand, and if I dropped off early morning, they would have it done by 5pm or so since their "master" tech would be assigned to it. 

The other 2 places, rated highly in the reviews, both fed me the, "well its gonna be a week or more, and thats assuming the parts get here in that time, so more like 2 weeks" line of possible b.s. 

So yeah, and I'm only saving about $1000-1500 going with them... but more importanly, 1 day v/s up to 2 weeks.

So yeah, in that sense, I ONLY trusted the dealer, ya smell me?


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## quatsch (Feb 4, 2021)

Will high ground clearance be a tie-breaker?


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

That is why the value plummets at a certain age.


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