# is it OK to have 12-2 romex in 1/2" outdoor conduit



## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

No. It will not. There are many problems with your plan. Are you sure the tub only requires 120V? Is this one of those inflatable ones?


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

jerryh3 said:


> No. It will not. There are many problems with your plan.


Too numerous to mention.:thumbsup:


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## red86yota (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm sure the tub only needs 120V 20A. It's an older one.

OK, so back to the drawing board... Is it the romex in the 1/2" conduit that is the problem? Should I put a junction box in the basement that brings in 12-2 romex, connect that to THHN, and send the THHN to the hot tub through the outdoor conduit? Then have a junction box/outlet in the tub enclosure?

Does the circuit need to be on a GFCI breaker, or is the GFCI on the hot tub end OK for that?


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Read this and any other information you can BEFORE proceeding! http://www.spaspecialist.com/oct98.html

This is not for a DIY'er unless you are certain to follow instructions. There is help here too. Please be careful.


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## red86yota (Nov 26, 2008)

thanks for the link and concern for my safety. i've included this hot tub install on my permit for the wiring on my new home addition i'm building. so everything will be inspected and up-to-code. i've got a good handle on wiring the circuits for the outlets and lights in the new bed/bath i've put in, but i'm not so sure about outside stuff - like the hot tub.

the hot tub was previously owned by friends who are moving. i'm sure things have changed in the 8 years since it was first installed, but the wiring description in my first post is how the pro hot tub guys initially installed it. except they didn't even have a grounding rod.

i just want to install it correctly and not get any weird looks from the inspector


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

I believe one of the big no-no's is the bare ground wire supplying the circuit for the hot tub. My understanding is it must be fully insulated. Also, romex is never allowed in conduit of any sort in any wet location. My reccomendation would be to run conduit and THWN directly from your panel to the new outlet. Pools and Hot tubs have some very strict requirements for the electrical service, I'd suggest you search the forums here for pool or hot tub related threads as this has all been discussed on here earlier.


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## integlikewhoa (Dec 31, 2007)

theatretch85 said:


> Also, romex is never allowed in conduit of any sort in any wet location.


Agreed!


theatretch85 said:


> My reccomendation would be to run conduit and THWN directly from your panel to the new outlet.


Also Agreed!
Or it min. you install a disconnect box on the back of the house and run romex inside the house from the panel to the disconnect box or juction box then run THWN in conduit to the disconnect at the spa. 

We need more info on this spa tho. Is this a hardwired spa or does it have a plug. (I have not even seen one with a plug or one that's 110 put outdoors) 
Any outdoor plug is going to have to be GFIC either on the plug or on the circuit breaker no matter whats getting plugged into it. That's required.


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## red86yota (Nov 26, 2008)

thank you for the replies.

the spa info is in the first post, but basically, it is an older (8-year old) spa that needs a single 120V, 20A circuit. The spa has a GFCI plug.

would it be OK to run 12-2 romex in the house to a junction box in the basement near where the power needs to go outside. then junction some 12g THWN to the romex and send it to the hot tub using 1/2" flex outdoor conduit? the conduit would be under a deck, does it need to be buried? the conduit will be underground near the spa because it needs to come up into the spa enclosure from below grade. the male spa GFCI plug is inside this enclosure.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

I believe that, despite your spa having its own GFCI on the plug, you must install a GFCI receptacle outside at the spa, or a GFCI breaker in your panel.
The outdoor receptacle must have a cover that keeps it waterproof while the plug is in - the bubble type of cover.

I don't know for sure, but I think you could use type UF cable instead of the conduit, if that suits the installation. Again, you need to read the specific code for pools and spas.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> would it be OK to run 12-2 romex in the house to a junction box in the basement near where the power needs to go outside. then junction some 12g THWN to the romex and send it to the hot tub using 1/2" flex outdoor conduit?


 
Yes. 


If you run UF cable, which is just like NM with a more weatherproof sheath, you could run it thru the house then sleeve the outside portion with nonmetallic flex under the deck to the tub. 

The flex will have to be rated for underground and buried 18". PVC will work nicely underground also.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> If you run UF cable, which is just like NM with a more weatherproof sheath, you could run it thru the house then sleeve the outside portion with nonmetallic flex under the deck to the tub.
> ...


UF for an outdoor hot tub? Doesn't that violate a code or two? I still want know if this thing is really a "hot tub." 20A, 120V? I don't see the water getting very warm during the winter...


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## integlikewhoa (Dec 31, 2007)

jerryh3 said:


> UF for an outdoor hot tub? Doesn't that violate a code or two? I still want know if this thing is really a "hot tub." 20A, 120V? I don't see the water getting very warm during the winter...


I dont know about the hot tub either, but I think codes are going to be different sinc basicly he is putting a outdoor outlet or plug and what he plugs into it is his deal. Its not a common hardwired with disconnect hot tub. If you pull permits and install an outdoor plug for what ever. Then later decieded to plug in a let say a moveable hot tub i dont think you would have a problem. 

Like what was said tho. All outdoor outlets need to have some type of GFIC. On the plug or on the breaker up to you. 

UF cable (like romex but gray and waterproof shield) would work and can be run the entire way. Also what you sugested would work to.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

UF *cannot* be used for a hot tub. Like the NM the ground wire is not insulated, it is only covered.

Also do NOT drive a grounding rod at the tub.


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## Magnettica (Jan 13, 2009)

The equipment grounding conductor only has to be insulated from where it leaves the inside of the house to it's termination point at the hot tub.


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sheathed cable can be run inside the house but once it leaves the house, the ground needs to be insulated. LT can be used in lengths not to exceed 6'. Your receptacle for the hot tub must not be within 5' of the hot tub and needs to be ground fault protected. There's not to be any receptacles located within 10' from the hot tub. Any receptacles within 20' need to be ground fault protected. Any receptacles within 5-10' are for tub associated only. As stated, scrap the ground rod. I really suggest you acclimate yourself with Art. 680 Parts 1,2,&4. This is a pretty serious install.

I go by 05 code so I'm not sure what, if any, changed in 08`


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## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

Jim Port said:


> UF *cannot* be used for a hot tub. Like the NM the ground wire is not insulated, it is only covered.
> 
> Also do NOT drive a grounding rod at the tub.


 
Do you have an art. # for that?


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

wirenut1110 said:


> Sheathed cable can be run inside the house but once it leaves the house, the ground needs to be insulated. LT can be used in lengths not to exceed 6'. Your receptacle for the hot tub must not be within 5' of the hot tub and needs to be ground fault protected. There's not to be any receptacles located within 10' from the hot tub. Any receptacles within 20' need to be ground fault protected. Any receptacles within 5-10' are for tub associated only. As stated, scrap the ground rod. I really suggest you acclimate yourself with Art. 680 Parts 1,2,&4. This is a pretty serious install.
> 
> I go by 05 code so I'm not sure what, if any, changed in 08`


I'm a little confused by this.
The receptacle for the hot tub must not be less than 5' of the hot tub. I understand that part.
There's not to be any receptacles located within 10' from the hot tub. How's that? If the hot tub receptacle is not to be within 5', that says it can be 6' from the tub, but the second statement says that there cannot be any receptacle within 10'.


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

KE2KB said:


> I'm a little confused by this.
> The receptacle for the hot tub must not be less than 5' of the hot tub. I understand that part.
> There's not to be any receptacles located within 10' from the hot tub. How's that? If the hot tub receptacle is not to be within 5', that says it can be 6' from the tub, but the second statement says that there cannot be any receptacle within 10'.


Did you see this part:



wirenut1110 said:


> Any receptacles within 5-10' are for tub associated only.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

theatretch85 said:


> Did you see this part:


OK, I guess I missed that part.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

This is a plug and cord hot tub sometimes known as a plug and play hot tub. It comes equipped with Alci on the cord. He only needs to plug the tub power cord into a properly installed outside outlet. He doesn't need a
ground rod.


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## red86yota (Nov 26, 2008)

OK, I've got a little more info...

I didn't realize before, but the plug for the tub is on the end of a 8-10ft cord. I previously thought I had to bring the power up into the tub enclosure, but it looks like I can bring the plug out of the hot tub and over to an outdoor GFCI outlet that's to be installed 5-10 ft away....

Since this outlet will be under a deck, can the conduit be above ground and attached to the bottom of the deck joists? Now I wonder about the plug cord...should there be some markings on it if it's OK to bury it underground? I don't see how I would fish that huge GFCI plug through some conduit, it would have to be 4" for it to fit...even then I don't know if it would fit through any 90deg bends. Either way, the plug cord will need to be underground at least where it exits the tub enclosure.

and no grounding rod near the tub.

guess i didn't need to add the hot tub install on my elec permit since it sounds like i'm really just going to be installing an outdoor outlet and plugging in a hot tub. oh well, i'll consider that a $50 donation to the twp.

oh, and yes, this really is a fully functional hot tub. friends have been using it year-round for 8 years. it's a hot springs tub.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

If you cord and plug the hot tub you cannot plug it in under the deck. Your cord and plug is considered the required disconnect and must be no closer than 5 feet from the tub and readily accessible. The cord does not get installed in conduit.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

It is extremely unlikely that the cord for the hot tub will be rated for direct burial, or even in conduit. The cord must be rated for outdoor use, and your plug must be protected where it plugs into the outdoor GFCI receptacle by a bubble type cover.

You may be able to install a weather protected switch in series with the GFCI receptacle to act as your means of disconnect, but check code. If you choose to use the switch, you may want to locate your GFCI indoors, or use a GFCI breaker in the main panel, since removing power from, and then restoring power to a GFCI receptacle can cause it to trip out, which would make it a nusiance to have to reset it when you want to use the spa.


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