# Isn't 8" riser height too big?



## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

In most locales, yes. 7-3/4" is usually max. Tread usually is to be 10" or more.

But if he is not putting mortar between the blocks, he will be legal in most areas because blocks run about 7-5/8 high.

Here's a set I suggested for someone else on DIY. The blocks with the blue cavities showing are turned that way so his dog could hide under there and look out.


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

Well I can't really bother the building inspector any more since I have already harassed him twice about this project, but I guess that 7" is max here. Anyway, my wife would be happier with a shorter riser ~6.5" due to her two knee replacements etc. How would you NOT use mortar to hold the blocks together?
I saw a set of stairs built with "wall stones" at http://www.kleinberg.com/stepconstruction.htm but I'm not sure where to find these. I think they are used to make retaining walls and come in various sizes (heights) that are different than cinder blocks.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

cvstan said:


> Well I can't really bother the building inspector any more since I have already harassed him twice about this project, but I guess that 7" is max here. Anyway, my wife would be happier with a shorter riser ~6.5" due to her two knee replacements etc. *How would you NOT use mortar to hold the blocks together?*
> I saw a set of stairs built with "wall stones" at http://www.kleinberg.com/stepconstruction.htm but I'm not sure where to find these. I think they are used to make retaining walls and come in various sizes (heights) that are different than cinder blocks.


Fill all the voids with concrete to lock everything together. Actually some structures are built with not only no mortar, but very few voids filled. They are honestly held together with a stucco-like coating on the outside....... and it is legal.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You are the one paying to have the steps built ?
In that case you should be paying to have them built the way you want


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Yep, your codes do seem to call for them different than the contractor wants to build them.

As far as I can tell, Brighton follows this code:

*1009.3 Stair treads and risers. *Stair riser heights shall be 7 inches (178 mm) maximum and 4 inches (102 mm) minimum. Stair tread depths shall be 11 inches (279 mm) minimum. The riser height shall be measured vertically between the leading edges of adjacent treads. The greatest riser height within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 0.375 inch (9.5 mm). The tread depth shall be measured horizontally between the vertical planes of the foremost projection of adjacent treads and at right angle to the tread's leading edge. The greatest tread depth within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 0.375 inch (9.5 mm). Winder treads shall have a minimum tread depth of 11 inches (279 mm) measured at a right angle to the tread's leading edge at a point 12 inches (305 mm) from the side where the treads are narrower and a minimum tread depth of 10 inches (254 mm). The greatest winder tread depth at the 12-inch (305 mm) walk line within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 0.375 inch (9.5 mm).


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

*This is helpful!*

How did you find this? The building inspector told me that the code was not written down someplace I could see it! You are supposed to guess and then see if it is approved (?). Thanks.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

cvstan said:


> How did you find this? The building inspector told me that the code was not written down someplace I could see it! You are supposed to guess and then see if it is approved (?). Thanks.


Your hometown site states that they have adopted the *New York State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code.*

This came from that code. Here is a link to the code. You will have to dig more deeply to discover exactly the parts you want, but this is the index page. What you are looking for starts on the first page, the first choice at the top.......

Building Code of New York State / 

Chapter 10 - Means of Egress / 

Section 1009 - Stairways and Handrails / 

Subdivision 1009.3 - Stair treads and risers.

(You may have to scroll down some on the last page to read the details.)


http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/st/index.htm


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

*Nice.*

This is very helpful. Thanks. Of course the construction guy is going to buy all the cement blocks before I can tell him it won't work.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

He can return the blocks.

Lots of ways to build stairs without blocks.

You’re the customer, stand your ground.


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

I have already been a PITA by making him return a pile of lumber for a deck I didn't want. He is so enthusiastic that he wants to build stuff faster than we can decide what we want. Plus my wife is in Hawaii while this is going on and communication is not instant due to 6-hour time difference.
Code may be different in City of Rochester compared to just over the line in Brighton; this may be throwing him off.
Bad customer!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Well if you have to be a PITA to get what you want then so be it.

Giving the customer “what they want” is my primary job.

You can deal with him now or your wife later.

As long as what you want is code compliant and he wont do it for you he shouldn’t be there IMO.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You can be sure that the 7" maximum rise is correct----
The state determines the minimum requirements for any code---
Then the county or village can get stricter--but not less than the minimum that the state has set.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

If you are permitting and being inspected - and you should be, since resale will be a problem if you don't - he HAS to build everything to code. He has no choice.


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

*Oh No Mr. Bill!*

I now believe it is impossible to build these stairs to code using cement blocks unless the blocks are custom made.
1) Base cement patio is tilted away from the house at about twice the pitch allowed for drainage on the stairs (1" per 48" is max). Tilt cannot be corrected by raising up the edge of the steps because top step is 4' long landing and others are normal 11" ; correcting tilt messes up rise uniformity.
2) Trying to get from the fixed patio height up to the door with equally spaced risers requires blocks of an odd size.

Maybe a concrete form is needed and forget the blocks.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you can get precast stairs delivered right to your house


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

8" is not too bad, my basement stairs are 9". But since this is outside, I would really look at going smaller, just because you most likely have the room and it would be a bigger safety hazard in winter, night etc. In a basement you want to try to save space so the stairs tend to be a bit steeper.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Red Squirrel --The mans wife has bad knees---she need a shallow step to make life easier--M--


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## cvstan (Aug 23, 2010)

*Yes*

Yes. All the steps in the house are 7 1/2 rise or even greater. Current code says <7" rise and run >11". 8" is not comfortable for someone with knee replacements. The stairs are the reason she wants me to sell the house.
After informing the contractor about the 7" rule, he has not contacted me for the past 3 days. This is not a good sign.
Is there a such thing as a cement stringer? If we could build the stone steps as if they were wood (empty underneath), it makes the sloped floor less of an issue.


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## thenite (Jul 10, 2012)

Just use 4" cinder block and cut the stupid things to the size you desire. It may take about a half hour, but you can take about 1" out and still use mortared joints. Rent a 12-14" concrete wet saw to make light work out of it, set yourself up a nice workstation. Make yourself a 6-7" jig (or what ever) to guide your cuts for each block or a few blocks if you feel confident enough. It's surprisingly easy to do. Note: this method will obviously not line up with existing masonry, but we're talking one layer of block per step. Cut some 2x4 slots (actual - 1 3/4" wide x 3 1/2" deep) on the inside of the cinder block to support a 2x4 and plywood inner form for each step. and then form your 4" thick steps. Order enough concrete to fill the holes in the cinder block (make sure you don't form over these to assure a solidly poured riser). 

Also note: it is a good idea to dig and pour a footer to your area's frost-line to assure settling or upheaval doesn't occur in the future. It is also a good idea to use re-rod (rebar) to secure the first course of block to the footer and poured steps to the vertical backdrop. 

This way is much cheaper, functional and simpler than other masonry methods. 

Good Luck 
Kirk 
Beehler Construction - project manager
Frederick Contracting - Owner


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions ,Kirk--but this thread is two years old and I believe that project is complete--


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## thenite (Jul 10, 2012)

oh'mike said:


> Thanks for the suggestions ,Kirk--but this thread is two years old and I believe that project is complete--



Ah, you never know, it may help out the next person.


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

If you want to help the next person then someone should have suggested a ramp for the inevitable wheel chair after the 2 knee surgeries.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

Cvstan,

this link will take you to the State of NY Building Codes http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/index.htm now you can see them for yourself. of course I'm not sure if the State of New York allows local communities to modify them or not. In Massachusetts the State Building Code is the same in each and every town/city.

Good luck!


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## thenite (Jul 10, 2012)

GBrackins said:


> Cystan,
> 
> this link will take you to the State of NY Building Codes http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/index.htm now you can see them for yourself. of course I'm not sure if the State of New York allows local communities to modify them or not. In Massachusetts the State Building Code is the same in each and every town/city.
> 
> Good luck!


To be honest, not very many inspectors know or even understand the code for building steps and railings. The code announced here is based on the American Standard Code for stairs and railing. I can't tell you the publisher at this moment, but what I can tell you is that it varies a little from town to town and county to county (depending on who does your building inspections). You don't have a prayer to fight local ordinance with national rules, but it does hold some water when you know your local codes, all in which must be published publicly.


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## thenite (Jul 10, 2012)

CopperClad said:


> If you want to help the next person then someone should have suggested a ramp for the inevitable wheel chair after the 2 knee surgeries.



hmmm. So, in two years you couldn't come up with a better answer? Yet, I just joined the site and you're picking on me? Perhaps rethinking your motives for aggression is in order.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Certainly you can build the steps out of concrete. Or you can use wood. Or you can use brick. There are many legal alternatives which meet your program of approximately 6 inch rise. Personally I would never want 8 inch rise on any steps, too high, I agree with you that 6 or 7 inch rise is reasonable, no reason to make it harder to get up the steps than necessary. If your contractor is unable or unwilling to build to your specifications, find another contractor.


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## thenite (Jul 10, 2012)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Certainly you can build the steps out of concrete. Or you can use wood. Or you can use brick. There are many legal alternatives which meet your program of approximately 6 inch rise. Personally I would never want 8 inch rise on any steps, too high, I agree with you that 6 or 7 inch rise is reasonable, no reason to make it harder to get up the steps than necessary. If your contractor is unable or unwilling to build to your specifications, find another contractor.



Dito!!!

hence one reason to get multiple estimates. On the other hand, I thought this was a DIY site. Do-It-Yourself-To-Hire-Someone-Else-To-Do-The-Project carries a different acronym. DIYTHSETDTP.com seems a little drawn out for the adventurous types, don't you think?


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

I have no clue what you're talking about. I joined this site last month.. You replied to a post from 2 years ago. I read it today and gave my opinion about a ramp. Aggression? Picking on you? I can tell where you are headed...:ban:


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

thanks Copper!

I just noticed because of your comment that the OP was 2 years ago ..... now I'll go sit in the corner with my dunce cap on ..... LOL


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

red Squirrel still has a lot of fun projects going--click on his name and look for 'recent posts' He does do some unusual projects.


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