# How to wire a GFCI to a di-pole 15A kitchen circuit (14/3) ?



## Tryvidy (Apr 19, 2009)

Sounds like I have to purchase a 15A double pole GFCI outlet. I wasn't aware these existed! 

Could someone please confirm this?


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

Tryvidy said:


> Sounds like I have to purchase a 15A double pole GFCI outlet. I wasn't aware these existed!
> 
> Could someone please confirm this?


If it's a mwbc you will need a Handle tie between the two breakers. You can continue using gfi outlets if they are wired correctly. Can you please explain how this whole circuit is wired? A diagram would be the best.


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

I believe you are describing a multi-wire branch circuit feeding split receptacles, so each half of each receptacle is on a different circuit. If this is the case, you cannot directly replace the receptacles with GFCI's, because there are no GFCI's made that work this way. Depending on how the circuit is laid out, you may have to replace each receptacle with a GFCI, or you may be able to replace only two and have them protect the entire circuit. The easiest solution is to replace the breaker with a 2-pole GFCI, but these tend to be quite expensive.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Ha you sparkys out there, my understanding is kitchens and bathrooms to meet code are now wired with 12-2 and 20 amp. outlets not 14-2 and 15 amp's.


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Ha you sparkys out there, my understanding is kitchens and bathrooms to meet code are now wired with 12-2 and 20 amp. outlets not 14-2 and 15 amp's.


Ok so it's not code now what?? Rip the whole house down and start again?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

And what does the OP say in the first line in his post? 
"I'm bringing my house up to code"


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

joecaption said:


> And what does the OP say in the first line in his post?
> "I'm bringing my house up to code"


Ye I would take that to mean I'll do it if it's easy and cheap otherwise the hell with code. But maybe your right he really wants to start ripping open all his walls. Who knows :wink:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

I think the OP is in Canada.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Perhaps the OP lives in Canada?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Sounds like a standard split wired kitchen counter circuit in Canada. You are not REQUIRED to bring this up to current code and install a GFCI. It is grandfathered and can remain as is.

If you want to make this receptacle GFCI protected then the only way to do it a very expensive double pole GFCI breaker. The alternative is to pull new #12 cable and make this circuit a 20 amp circuit. A 20 amp circuit does not need to be split wired and you can install a regular 20 amp T slot GFCI receptacle on it.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

If the cable from the panel is 14/3 and then that same cable daisy chains to the second outlet you should be able to do this with standard 15A GFCI outlets.

Just wire the first GFCI to neutral and one of the hot leads on its line side connections. Don;t connect anything to the load side connections. Put a wire nut on the second hot lead and pass it downstream to the second outlet along with the neutral. Then install another GFCI over there. The outlets will not longer be "split" top and bottom half on different poles but the outlets themselves will now be on separate poles. This will be a lot cheaper than a 2pole GFCI breaker.

That will give you GFCI protection on these outlets if that is what you were aiming for.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Hint: Use the red and white wires for the GFCI unit at the first box, the black and white wires for the GFCI at the second box, the red and white for the third, etc. At all boxes the incoming white and continuing white must be connected directly to each other, with a short white wire used to reach the GFCI unit with.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

curiousB said:


> If the cable from the panel is 14/3 and then that same cable daisy chains to the second outlet you should be able to do this with standard 15A GFCI outlets.
> 
> Just wire the first GFCI to neutral and one of the hot leads on its line side connections. Don;t connect anything to the load side connections. Put a wire nut on the second hot lead and pass it downstream to the second outlet along with the neutral. Then install another GFCI over there. The outlets will not longer be "split" top and bottom half on different poles but the outlets themselves will now be on separate poles. This will be a lot cheaper than a 2pole GFCI breaker.
> 
> That will give you GFCI protection on these outlets if that is what you were aiming for.



Not code in a Canadian Kitchen. You must either have split 15 amp receptacles or 20 amp T slot receptacles.


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## shazapple (Jun 30, 2011)

I have the same problem. After buying the GFCI receptacles, installing the 14/3 wire, and then drywalling I only then figured out my setup wouldn't work, so I will have to get a two pole GFCI breaker. Had I realized before I would have wired it for 20amp.


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## Tryvidy (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks Joed. Is it still grandfathered in if I update the outlet?

What do you think of AllanJ's suggestion to alternate red and black hot wires? Still doesn't make sense to me.

So the purpose of the di-pole breaker is to feed a separate circuit to the top and bottom outlet in a single gang socket? Why..?

I may have overlooked the old outlet before discarding, I'm guessing the joiner tab should be removed to isolate top from bottom, or red hot from black hot? Sounds like I'd get 240V otherwise. 

Thanks everyone!



joed said:


> Sounds like a standard split wired kitchen counter circuit in Canada. You are not REQUIRED to bring this up to current code and install a GFCI. It is grandfathered and can remain as is.
> 
> If you want to make this receptacle GFCI protected then the only way to do it a very expensive double pole GFCI breaker. The alternative is to pull new #12 cable and make this circuit a 20 amp circuit. A 20 amp circuit does not need to be split wired and you can install a regular 20 amp T slot GFCI receptacle on it.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Tryvidy said:


> So the purpose of the di-pole breaker is to feed a separate circuit to the top and bottom outlet in a single gang socket? Why..?
> 
> I may have overlooked the old outlet before discarding, I'm guessing the joiner tab should be removed to isolate top from bottom, or red hot from black hot? Sounds like I'd get 240V otherwise. !


When the two halves of a duplex receptacle are fed by separate hot wires and shared neutral (multiwire branch circuit) the tab must be broken on the hot (gold) side to prevent an instant 240 volt short circuit. So long as the neutral is correct and intact you will only find 120 volts at the individual receptacles.

WHen the two halves are fed by separate branch circuits (separate neutrals) the tabs must be broken on both sides.

THe purpose of the dipole (tied handles) breaker is to make sure all hot wires (i.e. both hot wires of the MWBC) are shut off before someone works on the receptacle with two hot wires feeding it.

Given the inexpensiveness of receptacle units it is not worthwhile to re-use a receptacle with a broken tab where you need one with tabs intact. But the broken tab can be gotten around in a pinch by running short lengths (pigtails) of wire to each screw and wire nutting (marretting) those to the wire that would otherwise connect to one of two screws whose tab was not broken.

When a duplex receptacle must be split to provide both legs of the MWBC at each outlet box, the red-white at the first box and black-white at the second box, etc. does not work. THey don't make GFCI receptacle units with tabs you can break off so the only other choice is a GFCI breaker. Converting split receptacles at each box to alternating red-white and black-white outlet boxes is a significant change, not just substituting one receptacle unit for another.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

If you are just replacing the receptacle then it is still grandfathered. If you are changing the wiring then probably need to meet current code.

Yes you need to cut the tab on the hot side only.

The idea of using only the red and white or black and white is valid but it does not meet code for kitchen. The reason for split circuits is more power available. You have 1800 watts from each receptacle instead of 1800 watts shared between them. You can plug in two coffee pots and not have to worry about tripping a breaker.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

mpoulton said:


> The easiest solution is to replace the breaker with a 2-pole GFCI, but these tend to be quite expensive.


Will this a even work? Single pole GFCI's compare the current in the hot and neutral and if they differ more than 5mA they trip. In a MWBC the neutral only carries the difference in current between the two poles. Therefore the neutral current matches neither hot side. I've never used one of these 2 pole GFCI's and wondering if they can sort this out?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Two pole GFCI breakers also have the neutral screw for the incoming branch circuit wires or cable and the neutral pigtail to go to the panel neutral bus bar. They do the right thing regarding comparing the current in the two hot wires and the neutral and sorting things out.


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