# Nutsedge



## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

Sorry this is getting so long. I forgot my other idea. Spray it with Round Up. Someone on here said they didn't have much luck growing grass where RoundUp had been. But the area where the bush was got sprayed down with RoundUp last fall. Spring of this year I pulled/raked all the dead stuff up and the grass is growing just fine.

So perhaps the time lag makes it OK?

Starting to think I'll try something different in different spots and see which works the best. :wink:


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Nutsedge is hard to kill; Sedgehammer seems to be the best. 
Difficult to control by pulling; you likely end up leaving part of theplant underground that just shoots off a new runner. Best to control them now before they spread; easier to sacrifice a small area of new grass now than to try to remove the sedge from the larger mature lawn IMO.


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

Yeah, I just got done talking to a guy at a garden center and he seemed to think the Roundup option might be my best bet. He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds, and then overseed again in the fall if necessary.

The new grass mostly wasn't growing anyway - I think that area is in too bad of shape. So I think I'll just bite the bullet and deal with a big bare area for a while, and just get it done once and for all.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

> He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.


Not true! 
Roundup (glyphosate) is deactivated in the soil. Pesticides are like any other tool, they have certain uses for certain places. Gly will kill, or at least severly damage anything that it gets on. Some herbicides have residual soil activity and this is where you have to be careful. The advantage of Sedgehammer is that, although it will not kill your lawn, it will adversely affect desirable trees, shrubs, and other ornamentals.



> to help try to save it from further weeds


Roundup has no pre-emergent use whatsoever. It will only affect weeds that are growing now.


Now to your original question. Nutsedge spreads by several means. Yes, it is very easy to pull especially when it gets big enought to get a good hold on and after a rain. But you do not get it all as suggested earlier. Do not wait. It will only spread and be harder and harder to get rid of. What lawn do you have? I have used RoundUp on bermuda in some instances. I use a very pinpoint nozzle and give it a quick shot right at the base. The bermuda will burn but will fill back in in a couple of weeks if the small brown spots are not a problem. Not for everywhere, but an option. Although the label says for use in lawns, if your sedge is near the root zone of desirable plants, do not use it. Generally speaking, consider about three times the size of the plant for the root zone.


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

downunder said:


> Not true!
> Roundup (glyphosate) is deactivated in the soil. Pesticides are like any other tool, they have certain uses for certain places. Gly will kill, or at least severly damage anything that it gets on. Some herbicides have residual soil activity and this is where you have to be careful. The advantage of Sedgehammer is that, although it will not kill your lawn, it will adversely affect desirable trees, shrubs, and other ornamentals.


I'm not sure I'm taking your meaning. You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity. So is it deactivated in the soil or not? The place my new grass is growing the best is where I used Roundup last year to just kill off everything in the area. (Wish I'd used it in the other areas too.) But there was a huge time lag in there. 




> Roundup has no pre-emergent use whatsoever. It will only affect weeds that are growing now.


I know it's not a pre-emergent. I was speaking of it killing off plants that can then no longer spread - at least not past whatever they've already done.




> Now to your original question. Nutsedge spreads by several means. Yes, it is very easy to pull especially when it gets big enought to get a good hold on and after a rain. But you do not get it all as suggested earlier. Do not wait. It will only spread and be harder and harder to get rid of. What lawn do you have? I have used RoundUp on bermuda in some instances. I use a very pinpoint nozzle and give it a quick shot right at the base. The bermuda will burn but will fill back in in a couple of weeks if the small brown spots are not a problem. Not for everywhere, but an option. Although the label says for use in lawns, if your sedge is near the root zone of desirable plants, do not use it. Generally speaking, consider about three times the size of the plant for the root zone.


It's mostly Kentucky bluegrass and some tall fescue, and possible some other stuff, but probably nothing else I'd be sorry to lose. And there's nothing else nearby that is going to stay. There's some possible future use of the area, but that's a long time away, as in years.

I ended up getting this new thing of Ortho's called Nutsedge Killer (which claims to kill all sorts of other stuff - we'll see). I'll use that in the areas where the grass is established and see what happens. The more bare areas where there's no grass or very little, I'm going to try the Roundup. Fortunately it's still small and I'll have a better chance of it. I have a tiny yard and plenty of grass seed, so I don't mind having to re-seed again in fall or next spring if I have to.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

> Yeah, I just got done talking to a guy at a garden center and he seemed to think the Roundup option might be my best bet. He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.


Again:


> He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass.


To which I contest is not true.




> I know it's not a pre-emergent.


:whistling2::laughing:




> You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity. So is it deactivated in the soil or not?


So research glyphosate and see.


The more I re-read this, the more I realize you are not here to learn. You just want to ask questions then argue with people. I do this for a living. I am a Georgia Certified Landscape Professional, which means that I have basically the same knowledge as someone with a college degree except that I learned by doing it instead of in a classroom. I also have a Commercial Pesticide Applicator's license. And certified in federal erosion and sediment control. But that probably means nothing.

Good day!


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

downunder said:


> Again:
> 
> 
> The more I re-read this, the more I realize you are not here to learn. You just want to ask questions then argue with people.


Exactly what in this thread have I argued with? I asked for some clarification on something you said. You stress you disagree on the 4 week thing - great, but I wasn't arguing about it. I was asking for some clarification of something I didn't understand, and still don't cause you just repeated that you don't agree with 4 weeks. How did I get to be the bad guy here?

And now I _am_ arguing cause this is just getting ridiculous. I think you're just ticked over the other thread and projecting it over here, cause now you're mad just cause I asked for some clarification of something. Sheesh!!!


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Roundup doesn't work very well on my nutsedge crop; kinda of spotty effect. I'd be interested in your experience with the ORtho product to see how satisfied you are with it. Post back in a couple of weeks if you can remember.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

> You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity.


Two different points in two different sentences. Anything I post can be verified by minimal research.

Product labels have a wealth of information on them. I would suggest reading them.

Glyphosate does not last four weeks in the soil. Period! This is a point in and of itself.


Notice the space here.


The following point is not directly related to glyphosate.



Different point-
Some herbicides can and will be taken up by the roots of other plants besides the one intended to be killed. Again, reading the label is very useful here.



> save it from further weeds


I am confused here. I do not understand your diction of "further weeds." I thought that once you kill the present weed, further weeds would mean those that would come in the future. Not? 

And then you say


> I know it's not a pre-emergent. I was speaking of it killing off plants that can then no longer spread - at least not past whatever they've already done.


Presuming that the present individual weed entity is killed, glyphosate will not prevent those tubers which are left behind from sprouting.


> He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds,


Is this not the very essence of a pre-emergent? To prevent further weeds?

I'm not ticked off or mad. I am irritated that simple information was posted and that two completely different points in two different sentences were lumped together then purported to be confusing.


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

bob22 said:


> Roundup doesn't work very well on my nutsedge crop; kinda of spotty effect. I'd be interested in your experience with the ORtho product to see how satisfied you are with it. Post back in a couple of weeks if you can remember.


Interesting. Wow, can't say I'm happy to hear that Roundup has not worked well for you. I was looking at that as my last resort.

I'll let you know how the Ortho thing works out. My _impression_ is that it's kind of the "over-the-counter" version of a profession chemical. (Which I interpret to mean "weak." :laughing I suspect it'll be more than a couple of weeks - with all the rain we've been getting, I'll be lucky if I get to try it. I'd really like to do this ideally, exactly as the bottle states, but the conditions are not helping in that effort.


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

downunder said:


> Nutsedge
> Quote:
> You're saying Roundup is deactivated in the soil but then talking about residual soil activity.
> Two different points in two different sentences. Anything I post can be verified by minimal research.
> ...


I have read the label. In fact, I get made fun of for the way I'm always so insistent about reading all labels and directions and guides, etc. Apparently you are assuming I haven't read it. However, its information really is limited in some respects. I look it up online and find a lot of technical junk I don't understand.



> Glyphosate does not last four weeks in the soil. Period! This is a point in and of itself.


Well, ya know, that statement about glyphosate not lasting four weeks in the soil - you never said that in the other post. _Read your post. You didn't say that._ I said the guy at the garden center told me to "wait 4 weeks" and plant grass. You said "Not true." So, does "not true" mean I should wait LESS time? Or MORE time? Or that grass won't grow at all?

So I don't know any special meaning behind "not true" other than that you disagree with the guy, and somehow that means I'm "arguing" with you? I mean, HUH?

Nice point, assuming you'd said it to being with.



> Notice the space here.


Well, the space is in THIS post. It wasn't in the other post. Was I supposed to know to create a space in the middle of your paragraph? If you wanted to create a space, maybe you should have put one there?



> Different point-
> Some herbicides can and will be taken up by the roots of other plants besides the one intended to be killed. Again, reading the label is very useful here.


Hmm. That sentence was in the same paragraph, but without the sarcastic current "note the space here" part. Same paragraph. No space. It really is not very clear whether you are referring to the Roundup, or to something else, or just making a generic comment. Guess I'm supposed to be a mind reader again.



> > save it from further weeds
> 
> 
> I am confused here. I do not understand your diction of "further weeds." I thought that once you kill the present weed, further weeds would mean those that would come in the future. Not?


Yes. Wow, we're together on one thing.



> And then you say
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. See the part about "not past whatever they've already done"? I re-wrote that about 3 times, wondering if you were going to misinterpret what I was trying to say. Plants spread by different means, seeds, tubers, whatever. If the tubers already exist, then that would be under the category of "whatever they've already done." Or a simplier way to put it, if a seed has already blown into another part of the yard, killing the original plant isn't going to do anything about that seed. But it will keep said plant from creating new seeds to blow into the yard, right? I don't know if Roundup kills the tubers or not. If it doesn't, then that is what "not past whatever they've already done" is supposed to mean. Because, well, the tubers are already there.

My understanding of a pre-emergent would be preventing the little tuber from doing anything, or at least growing up properly. That is, like the next year, in the spring, before the things crop up. No, I don't expect that Roundup will do that.

Sorry if I screw up any vocabulary. You already are well aware that I'm not a professional, so don't accuse me of "arguing" if I happen to screw up some vocabulary. Regardless of the arguing issuing, why do you expect someone to get all the proper vocabulary. Have I actually screwed it up? Or do you get what I was saying? If I've screwed the vocabulary, why don't you try EXPLAINING it instead of just being sarcastic and accusing me of arguing?




> > He said wait 4 weeks to re-plant grass. I thought that would be too late in the year and he said he'd do it anyway and just see how it does, to help try to save it from further weeds,
> 
> 
> Is this not the very essence of a pre-emergent? To prevent further weeds?


He meant that if I didn't plant anything and left the area bare, void of any grass, that it would be too easy for new weeds to crop up. i.e. even my ignorance knows that a strong turf is a good start to preventing the growth of weeds and that a bare area is gonna end up full of crabgrass and whatnot. His idea was trying to get the grass to grow and hopefully become strong enough to prevent fall weeds. Besides, he is the one who said it, not me. I was quoting him. So why do you accuse me of "arguing" when I was quoting someone else? I mean, why the heck are you blaming what HE said on ME?



> I'm not ticked off or mad. I am irritated that simple information was posted and that two completely different points in two different sentences were lumped together then purported to be confusing.


So you're irritated that I _didn't understand everything you said_? Wow, don't become a teacher. Seriously. How would I know that the "some herbicides" was meant to be a _different_ herbicide? There was NOTHING in that paragraph to indicate if you were talking about Roundup or if you were talking about something else, or just talking in general. And yet, you're irritated that I couldn't distinguish this and know for sure that you were talking about other herbicides or in general.

In fact, I'm still not sure. I'm getting the impression now that you weren't referring to Roundup, but that absolutely was not clear in the original post. I ask for clarification, and you're irritated and accusing me of "arguing"?

Really, all I can end with is excuse me!!! I am not a stupid person. (Ask anyone who _actually knows me_.) You have not been very clear, and yet you think that you have and you're treating me like an idiot for it. And let's just pretend for a moment that you were perfectly clear and that I'm really an idiot, what is your reasoning that I was "arguing" with you? I was asking for clarfication. You accused me of coming to this site and posting for the sake of arguing, but I wasn't arguing until I was defending myself against your accusations. Read everything before your accusation and tell me where I was arguing.


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## Mike in Arkansas (Dec 29, 2008)

I recommend you just find and plant some star of bethlehem bulbs and soon you'll have a georgous white flowered lawn. All your problems will be over.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Erimess said:


> Interesting. Wow, can't say I'm happy to hear that Roundup has not worked well for you. I was looking at that as my last resort.
> 
> I'll let you know how the Ortho thing works out. My _impression_ is that it's kind of the "over-the-counter" version of a profession chemical. (Which I interpret to mean "weak." :laughing I suspect it'll be more than a couple of weeks - with all the rain we've been getting, I'll be lucky if I get to try it. I'd really like to do this ideally, exactly as the bottle states, but the conditions are not helping in that effort.


I'll jump in here for a moment... I grew up on a farm, my 75-year old dad still farms, and my brother manages a large farmland coop that specializes in fuels and agronomy.

The bottom line is that the RoundUp you can buy at WalMart is not the same stuff the farmers use. That's why they have to go to classes and be certified before they can buy the stuff.

Also, RoundUp has been on the market for about 40 years. A lot of weeds/plants (probably not so much in urban areas) have grown resistant to it. It'll burn them, and make them mad, but it won't kill them.

To also clarify, regardless of what anybody tells you, RoundUp is a "contact herbicide." It kills the weeds it touches, but nothing else. There MIGHT BE a trace of residual effect in the soil, for a brief time. But even that is not likely.


So... As in the other thread, I'll again suggest to you that you get ahold of a farm supply store, or your Extension Office (if you're able) to get a little more qualified set of answers to your specific local problem. Good luck!


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

DrHicks said:


> To also clarify, regardless of what anybody tells you, RoundUp is a "contact herbicide." It kills the weeds it touches, but nothing else. There MIGHT BE a trace of residual effect in the soil, for a brief time. But even that is not likely.


This is a true statement, but Roundup will definitely travel in the soil upon initial application. 

You should be prepared, as stated above, for things outside of what you spray to die. I have found that with *VERY careful* application (even with using a shield) I can still expect things to die in an approximately 10-12 inch radius around the spot sprayed. I've sprayed a lot of homeowner grade Round-up this year (on dandelions) and that is my experience.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> This is a true statement, but Roundup will definitely travel in the soil upon initial application.
> 
> You should be prepared, as stated above, for things outside of what you spray to die. I have found that with *VERY careful* application (even with using a shield) I can still expect things to die in an approximately 10-12 inch radius around the spot sprayed. I've sprayed a lot of homeowner grade Round-up this year (on dandelions) and that is my experience.


Why are you spraying Dandelions with RoundUp instead of a 2,4-D product?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Uh, because I didn't know better.  we're all learning, right??


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> Uh, because I didn't know better.  we're all learning, right??


I'm not learning. My brain is full. I refuse to learn anything more. Ever! 


Actually, I found out (never mind how) that spraying dandelions with RoundUp is kind of a disaster. It kills the grass first, and then new grass is MUCH harder to get growing than weeds. I do everything I can to NOT kill grass that's already growing, but rather, to supplement it.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

DrHicks said:


> I'm not learning. My brain is full. I refuse to learn anything more. Ever!
> 
> 
> Actually, I found out (never mind how) that spraying dandelions with RoundUp is kind of a disaster. It kills the grass first, and then new grass is MUCH harder to get growing than weeds. I do everything I can to NOT kill grass that's already growing, but rather, to supplement it.


Honestly, I was pretty unhappy with the puddles of dead grass, but it's growing back in, now and I am pretty nearly dandelion free. I didn't do a pre-emergent because I seeded a bunch this spring. Now I have lots and lots of new grass. And mother nature has been helping out with lots of rain. I nearly need to mow twice a week right now.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> Honestly, I was pretty unhappy with the puddles of dead grass, but it's growing back in, now and I am pretty nearly dandelion free. I didn't do a pre-emergent because I seeded a bunch this spring. Now I have lots and lots of new grass. And mother nature has been helping out with lots of rain. I nearly need to mow twice a week right now.


Good deal!

I guess, having grown up on a farm, I'm extremely aware of how various herbicides can absolutely devastate vegetation. It's unfortunate that these stores that sell lawn herbicides don't put up a HUGE sign - in front of RoundUp & all the off-brand RoundUps - that says, "THIS PRODUCT WILL KILL YOUR GRASS!"

I cannot tell you how many times I've driven by lawns that are covered with 12"-18" dead spots. There's absolutely no question what happened, and there's absolutely no question about how POd the owner is!


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

M in A,
NO YOU DIDN'T!


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## Erimess (Apr 2, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> To also clarify, regardless of what anybody tells you, RoundUp is a "contact herbicide." It kills the weeds it touches, but nothing else. There MIGHT BE a trace of residual effect in the soil, for a brief time. But even that is not likely.


Just my experience, but I haven't had Roundup hurt anything that was near by. But on the other hand I don't use it near bushes too often - if it's done any damage it's not enough to notice. And so far it's killed everything, except for one very stubborn vine that it just seems to singe a bit.

As for the nutsedge - we finally got a couple of days without rain, so I used my new Ortho junk. I could only get the expensive baby spray bottle so I do hope it does at least something. 

I can resort to the Roundup if I have to. Last year I got a bunch of crabgrass where a bush was dug up and used Roundup there. Spring this year I pulled/raked the dead stuff up, and the grass is growing great. I can repeat that in the other places if necessary - it's just a lot bigger area.  But my priority is getting rid of that junk.

Thanks for the input.


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