# installing a fence post...properly



## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

I am going to be setting up a new fence this weekend. It will be cedar 6x8 panels with 6x6 cedar post which are 9' long. I do not want to set them in concrete. I intend to put some crushed stone in the hole for drainage. The post will sit on this. I will back fill with dirt. 
When i talked to the fence salesman he said that they never use cement. He said most fence posts only need to go in the ground 2'. He said if it is done properly there will never be an issue. I agree with not using concrete for wooden posts but how can you possibly get the lateral support with only 2' deep posts in dirt. I was contemplating using metal post in concrete but I like the look of the wood better. Let me know what you guys think.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Millertyme said:


> I am going to be setting up a new fence this weekend. It will be cedar 6x8 panels with 6x6 cedar post which are 9' long. I do not want to set them in concrete. I intend to put some crushed stone in the hole for drainage. The post will sit on this. I will back fill with dirt.
> When i talked to the fence salesman he said that they never use cement. He said most fence posts only need to go in the ground 2'. He said if it is done properly there will never be an issue. I agree with not using concrete for wooden posts but how can you possibly get the lateral support with only 2' deep posts in dirt. I was contemplating using metal post in concrete but I like the look of the wood better. Let me know what you guys think.


I would set the posts below the frost line. Pretty sure it's deeper then 2 feet in Ma.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I’m not a fan of cedar below grade. 6x6 cedar is a pricy stick of wood. I’d do 4x4 pt and wrap it with 1x cedar above grade. 

I question all of your fence salesman’s advice.


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

frost line in mass is 4'. However the fence posts i see for sale around here and on the internet are only 8 or 9 ft. Fence panels are 6'.

Good point on the wrapping the post idea but the post i have selected are already pre drilled to accept the fence i have choosen. They are 35 apiece but i am content with that.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

A good rule of thumb for driven piles needing to take lateral load (that's engineer geek speak for your post) is to embed the post 40 percent of its length in the ground. So a 9 foot post embeds about 3.5 feet.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

6X6 is a mean post... but i would do them to just at the highest horizontal screw in from the lenght of fence and the rest of the post in the ground with a bag of QUICK-SET then stones..not sure on wet dirt next to ceder.did you consider capping off the fill with concrete so the rain runs away from the post and forget the pebbles.i would mix them into the pour level out the post and 30 minutes to hour its solid...and form a nice rain run off cap.i have pine post and rail and tarded them 3' up and dug down 3' going on 23 yrs now slight rotting and wiggling at the frost line...


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

Daniel Holzman said:


> A good rule of thumb for driven piles needing to take lateral load (that's engineer geek speak for your post) is to embed the post 40 percent of its length in the ground. So a 9 foot post embeds about 3.5 feet.


this would be ok, but most fence posts do not come this long. they usually come 8'. The ones i am looking to get actually come 9'. So im close but not quite 3.5'.

biggles- are you talking about setting the posts in concrete?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

yes,rocks and dirt are going to give you a solid vertical post to mount fencing on


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## AGWhitehouse (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree with Millertyme that frost in most of MA is 4'-0".

If you set a 9'-0" post 3'-6" into a 4'-0" deep sonotube filled with concrete you'll be left with 5'-6" exposure. That gives you the 40% Holzman spoke of. That will allow the 6'-0" fence to have a 6" height gain on the post which could help with the look depending on the fence type.

Here's a visual example of the height gain on the post described: http://www.darmatafence.com/Images/Stockade-Image-3-Large.gif

If you have site irregularities, you could embed 3'-0" and gain that 6" of clearance without much structural reduction.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Millertyme said:


> I am going to be setting up a new fence this weekend. It will be cedar 6x8 panels with 6x6 cedar post which are 9' long. I do not want to set them in concrete. I intend to put some crushed stone in the hole for drainage. The post will sit on this. I will back fill with dirt.
> When i talked to the fence salesman he said that they never use cement. He said most fence posts only need to go in the ground 2'. He said if it is done properly there will never be an issue. I agree with not using concrete for wooden posts but how can you possibly get the lateral support with only 2' deep posts in dirt. I was contemplating using metal post in concrete but I like the look of the wood better. Let me know what you guys think.


I just built a cedar privacy/picket fence that's a bit over 4' high. I used 8' 4x4 posts, buried them 3-1/2' feet deep. I used 3/4" crush-run gravel, tamped in around the posts almost to ground level. They are extremely solid.

I would never bury a 6x6 post _only_ 2' deep. Posts for a 4' high chain link fence, yes. Something as big as a 6x6, no.


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

here is the fence i will be installing http://southeastfence.com/wood-privacy-fence.html

Note that i will not be able to drop these post down 4' into the ground. They told me they use 9' posts on these, but on most of their fences, the posts only go into the ground 2'. This is a very reputable company and have a crew that have been doing this for many years, However i question how these post will be sound for many years. I understand all that you guys have mentioned and will keep it all in mind. I am picking up the fence on saturday and want to make sure i have all my questions ready for them before my purchase.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Millertyme said:


> here is the fence i will be installing http://southeastfence.com/wood-privacy-fence.html
> 
> Note that i will not be able to drop these post down 4' into the ground. They told me they use 9' posts on these, but on most of their fences, the posts only go into the ground 2'. This is a very reputable company and have a crew that have been doing this for many years, However i question how these post will be sound for many years. I understand all that you guys have mentioned and will keep it all in mind. I am picking up the fence on saturday and want to make sure i have all my questions ready for them before my purchase.


If you were building a deck, you would put the supports below the frost line. How are the fence supports different? 
Frost heave, is frost heave.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I’m surprised that you (stair guy) are going with a kit.

Not to mention the post depth an 8’ span is to much for a fence IMO.

Can’t say anything about that company but enough savvy marketing can make anybody reputable.


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

the fence is well built. I have seen the fence. I priced out doing the fence myself and there really wasnt any savings.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

be a man and use a man tool like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFD2w06staY :whistling2:


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

epson said:


> be a man and use a man tool like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFD2w06staY :whistling2:


Wow, that post was not even CLOSE to being straight when he got done with it.


That said, I guess my advice would be that if a reputable company is going to install the fence for you, and they will warrant it for 5 or 10 years, let them do it. It's their problem if there's a problem. But if I was building my own fence, I'd bury the posts deeper than 2 feet.


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

i am only buying the fence from them...i will be installing it. 

After doing some searching i found that there really isnt a need to go below frostline nor does local code state such. As long as the post is installed at least 1/3 of the way into the ground. That would explain why the post are 9'.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

then you can uae this post support


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