# Finishing Basement, carpet install order?



## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Currently bare concrete slab, no trim up, no doors installed and I am planning on installing carpet. What order should i put them up in and what should I do for a underlayment when installing carpet with an attached pad?

Thanks!:thumbup:


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## 26yrsinflooring (Jul 1, 2008)

Unless it is a hgh grade Enhancer carpet it will not last long with the attached pad.

If it is a Enhancer backed carpet the floor prep is limited you can glue it right down.

It sounds like that cheap stuff from one of the box stores is it ?


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Actually, I havent picked it up yet. I was just trying to understand what order I need to install everything (carpet, trim, doors). Can you suggest a good carpet or carpet pad combo? I was looking at some berber but I dont think it had an attached pad. Suggestions are more than welcome:yes:


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

You always install the flooring last. The reason why is that you're likely to make a mess of the floor doing all the other basement renovating. So, frame your walls and exterior walls, insulate, drywall, install doors and then when everything else is done, install your flooring.

"Kanga-Back" carpets (the the attached underpads) aren't good quality. For a "rec room" it's fine, but if you want a better quality carpet, then you need a separate carpet and pad.

Installation is variable. You can glue the carpet directly to the concrete. You can glue the pad down to the concrete and glue the carpet down to the pad. You can nail the tackstrip down to the concrete or use construction adhesive to glue it down. In my sister's basement, I glued the tackstrips down with LePage's PL Premium construction adhesive and used double sided carpet tape around the perimeter of each piece of underpad to stick it down to the concrete. There are many different ways to install carpet over concrete.


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## 26yrsinflooring (Jul 1, 2008)

I am sorry I misunderstood the nature of the question.

I have some contractors that want to do trim last...albetit very few.
The norm is carpet last.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

Tiger. Berber carpets are good and bad. They have usually 3 fibre types. Wool, Nylon or Olefin (polypropelene). Wool is superior, but expensive and more expensive to maintain. You won't find it at my stores or probably the other big boxes.

Nylon is the best bet, actually, I haven't priced wool in a while, with the rising price of oil, maybe it is almost as much now. Nylon, is a memory yarn. When it gets crushed from normal foot traffic, it can be brought back with regular vacuuming or cleaning.

Olefin is the cheapest route. The only successful installs I have seen with this are with darker colors. Oils are almost impossible to remove from this fibre, it holds on to them and in short time even the highest quality olefins will mat down and have ugly dark appearances in traffic areas. Not being a memory yarn this cannot be removed very easily with cleaning.


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## 26yrsinflooring (Jul 1, 2008)

23 has the carpet covered.
I will cover the pad.
Use good rebond pad perhaps a 7 lb you can get that in 3/8 for the berbers and 7/16 for the conventional. A 6 lb is good and a lot better than the 4 lb.


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks all! I will look for a nylon beber and a 7 lb 3/8th inch pad then if I choose berber!:thumbsup:


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I've hardly ever seen a _nylon berber_ carpet...olefin (ie. polypropylene) berbers are the norm because of their cost and relative suitability to basements. There's a degree of 'recycling' involved in olefins too, that sways some buyers - although I don't know the exact connection. But olefin berbers tend to wear and grey out faster than any nylon.

There's always just straight nylon carpeting, not in a berber weave, if you like something to squish your toes into. We've had our olefin berber 20 years now in the basement. I'd definitely stay away from any cellulosic (cotton) or animal fibre down there, so orientals are mostly out.
:whistling2:


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

Carlisle. Yes there are plenty of nylon berbers out there. They are softer. Any time if it is "stainmaster" it is nylon.

I'm glad your olefin held up. If you treat it well, it will. Barefeet, dirty shoes will kill it. Once in a while, this was in the 90's, so excuse me if they have corrected the problem, when the yarn was excruded, the mills had to put oil on the yarn and then clean it afterwards. Once in a while they failed to clean it properly before making it into a carpet.
Down the road it would get black. A cleaner would come in, put more cleaning agents in, then it would get worse.

26. Good call on the pad. I would only use rebond. I am sure the rubber pad is good too, but it is so expensive and in the heat of Florida I would get more issues than was worth it. Stay away from anything that is solid foam. Even if the salesperson says how great it is. Rebond is lots of foam put together, so it is easy for a salesperson to make you think it is inferior. It isn't. With 26 and myself you have 52 yrs of experience!! There is a fake horsehair pad out there too. It seems okay, I've never used it. But it seems to lack comfort.


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Well, I went and looked around the Mohawk website and it seems that a lot of their berber is nylon. Any suggestions on cut pile, loop pile or loop cut. I always think of the loop pile when I think of berber but the cut pile looks nice when it has multiple color strands in it. I would really like a carpet that is beige or light tan or a blend but I dont want it to show tracks if possible. Thanks again guys!


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

without getting into the whole berber story, it has become pretty well accepted now that berbers are looped, even though it isn't really neccessarily the case.

The looped pile is supposed to give you the wearability, but my original post on carpet covers that.

Any time you get a cut pile you run the risk of having tracks, footprints, markings. Certain carpets such as textures will hide this, carpets such as plush highlight this.

Frieze carpets or california berber types are a more casual. They tend to wear well as you walk on the sides of the carpet more than on the tips. Most will hide the footprints etc, however, the thicker you go, the more markings you'll get.

You'll need a salesperson you can trust to show you. 

Lighter colors will hide more than darker ones.

On cut pile Nylon rules again. Stay away from Polyester if possible, Absolutely never, NEVER, get a cut pile olefin. 

Look at the tips of a cut pile. Isolate one fibre strand. Look at the tip closely. Does it look tightly wrapped and even all the way from the base? :yes: Or is it blooming at the top like a rose?  Often carpets like that have been blown with air to make them look bulkier. It is already on its way to looking worn and it hasn't been laid yet.

Run a thumb across the face of the carpet as if you smudged it and were trying to wipe off the smudge. See if the carpet deterioates, so to speak, or if it just goes back to the way it was.

Don't get sucked in by Karastan salespeople. Mohawk owns Karastan and mixes many of their products in their regular line under different names, for a lot less money.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Let me chime in:

I agree nylon is the strongest fiber used to make carpet, and therefore results in the longest wearing carpets. 80 percent of commercial carpets are made of nylon fiber.

The problem, however, with nylon is that it's got polar groups on it, which makes it highly susceptible to water based stains. DuPont has spent a king's ransom trying to make their "Antron" nylon more resistant to water based stains, and they're still trying.

There is a certain wisdom in knowing when to give up.

Other producers of nylon are now producing "solution dyed nylon fiber" and are selling it to make commercial carpets out of. That way, you have the durability of nylon combined with the ability to use bleach or acetone straight out of the jug on the carpet to remove otherwise impossible stains.

For those who don't know:
A "solution dyed" fiber is one in which the fiber is coloured by adding solid coloured particles called "pigments" to the plastic before drawing it into a fiber. As a result the coloured pigments are encased in the plastic fiber very much like raisins in an unsliced loaf of raisin bread. Since the colour of the carpet comes from the pigments, which are encased in nylon plastic, you can use strong chemicals like bleach to remove any stains from the exterior surface of the fiber without discolouring the pigments encased inside the fiber.

That way, you can have the durability of nylon with the ability to use bleach to remove stains from the carpet fibers without bleaching the carpet.

If someone in here doesn't think that's an important selling point, they come from a different planet.

PS: I've been using bleach to remove dyed candle wax stains from Olefin carpets for about 22 years now. (Tenants love candles.) There's a supposed carpet cleaning guru who works out of the place where I buy my carpet here in Winnipeg, and he warns against using bleach on any carpet. He said it would "etch" the carpet fiber, making it rough. I asked him if it did that, wouldn't that rough surface scatter light, making the carpet look whiter? He couldn't answer that. Think about it. If you take a piece of sandpaper and roughen up any smooth surface (even glass), those scratches will look lighter in colour than the original surface because they're rough and scatter light in all directions. Light coming from all directions reflects and refracts off that rough surface and when it refracts, the different frequencies of light get scattered in slightly different directions (just the same way as a prism works). Your eye sees the combination of different colours from a rough surface as the colour "white". So, if you scratch a piece of glass, the scratch with be white. If you've ever seen heavy machinery scratch concrete, the resulting scratch is white. Even if you scratch a black granite tombstone, the resulting scratch will be a whiter version of black. If bleach were to cause any increase in roughness of the surface of the carpet fiber, you'd expect to see a whitening of the carpet (even without any chemical "bleaching" effect) just due to the roughening of the carpet fiber. Therefore, if you don't see that, then the bleach is not affecting the smoothness of the carpet fiber.

PS2: As I have typed this post, I have had a scrap piece of the solution dyed nylon carpet I installed in Suite 2 sitting not more than 4 feet from me with some undiluted bleach soaked into an area the size of a quarter. So far no detectible change in the carpet colour, except that it is darker, as most water absorbing materials are when they're wet. I just now used a wad of toilet paper to wick up that bleach, and there is absolutely no discernable change in the carpet colour whatsoever. And, it's taken every bit of 10 minutes to type this post so far.

The carpet I installed in Suite 2 and tested the bleach on is made by Shaw. It is their "Franchise" line of commercial level loop carpet. The colour I purchased was #10405 called "Starry Night", but all of these carpets in the Franchise line are solutiond dyed nyon and would not be harmed by bleach.

A second 100% solution dyed nylon commerical level loop carpet made by Shaw is their "Reward Power" line.

Tigerbalm: You have very little to lose by spending $2 on a car floor mat size sample of a 100% solution dyed nylon carpet and torturing it with bleach. Just look on the back of the sample and it'll say what fiber it's made of, and if it's nylon, whether or not it's solution dyed nylon.

Just pour some Grape Kool-Aid (worst stain I could think of) on the sample, rub it in, and use bleach to remove the stain. Just apply the bleach right out of the jug to the stain, allow it to work and remove the stain, and then suck the bleach out of the carpet using the suction hose of a wet/dry Shop Vac vaccuum cleaner. Just press the end of the hose down on the carpet and the air flow will pull the bleach out. Then apply clean rinse water several times, recovering the rinse water after each application. Maybe try a good grade of water based wood stain on the carpet, too!

If you have a puppy or kitten, you can also use bleach to kill any germs (disinfect) on the areas of your carpet where your puppy or kitten had an "accident" exactly the same way. That way if you have a toddler dropping things on the carpet and then putting them in his mouth, you don't have to worry (as much) about what he's puttin in his mouth.

In my books, not having to worry about staining a brand new carpet because you can remove that stain with bleach is an important selling point that no one seems to have mentioned so far.

PS3: I have no fight with foam chip pads, but I install a 38 pound commercial pad called SP380 (I don't know who makes it) in every apartment in my building, and I've had absolutely no problems with it. It's strong ad thick and seems to last forever. When I remove the old carpet in a suite, I press down on the traffic lane and compare how it compresses with the non-traffic areas in the corners of the room. Until I start to detect any difference, I'll keep installing new carpet over the same SP380 solid foam rubber underpad.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

You are right Nestor. The only thing is though, that bleach has other problems too. That is why manufacturers, who emphasize using bleach on their products also say to use very little and to dilute it.

I was cleaning out a closet once for a friend that was moving house. She had apparently knocked over and susequently broken a bottle of bleach.

Now, granted, I do not know the quantity of bleach and I do not know the duration of time that the bleach had sat there, but sat there it had.

After emptying the closet, I pulled up the carpet so I could take the sample back to my store and match it with some remnants I had back there. All the carpet fibres just brushed off the backing in a neat circle where the bleach had sat. 

I only recommend the use of bleach in extreme cases.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Tigerbalm:
I'm no expert on carpets here but the terms you refer to ("berber", "cut-pile" and "loop-pile") are types of "weaves' and in a way describe the weaving process. A berber weave is a looped weave, as HomeDepot23 described. Cut-pile is what one would think of when one thinks of a traditional nylon carpet because the piles have been cut.

So, IMO a berber is a looped-pile weave, and there may not be such a things as a 'cut-pile berber'...looped-pile weaves like berber are sold precisiely because they tend to show footprints much less than a traditional cut-pile carpet would. That's what the loops are for.

Now staining is another matter; I think we're up to the sixth generation of "stain-proof" carpeting, with each subsequent generations solving the problems of the previous generation in terms of being resistant to soils. This is a particular feature of nylon carpets only, as many have already pointed out.

Pricing for berbers is still something like this: wool berbers are around $75 per sq yd, nylon berbers around $50 and olefin berbers around $20. So in terms of volume, you'll see more olefin berbers out there. They are very profitable berbers to sell, that's why. Some berbers are made from recycled soda botles (PET), so have an environmentally-friendly message.

Yes, bleach is strong...a strong oxidizer actually, and the products of its reaction on most things equally as strong as the product itself. It is highly alkaline and therefore a danger to many compounds. I think the tendency is to use - as with many chemicals - as little as you can to do the job and although we carry 10 volume (the drug-store concentration) and the 30 volume (the hairdressing concentration) with us, we never use them straight. On the other hand, don't conclude that "bleach will dissolve carpet" - because it won't in the hands of an experienced professional. 

The damage that HomeDepot23 describes is a good case, but I see that phenomenon after plain water has been left to stand for long periods of time, so has something to do with degradation of the fiber (probably a cotton backing) accelerated by the corrosiveness of the bleach. A mess in either case... 

There was a time that Shaw Carpet was the largest manufacturer of carpet and Home Depot (the store) the largest seller of carpet. May still be true...


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

HomeDepot23:

I don't know what happened in your case. However, my experience has been that with any solution dyed fiber, bleach is not a problem if used carefully and appropriately.

I know that if I were to buy a nylon carpet, I would make sure it was solution dyed so that I could remove stains from it with bleach. To my way of thinking, that's a far better solution than DuPont has managed to come up with whereby I pay $45 per square yard for their "StainMaster" carpet and have to follow special procedures to clean it for fear of voiding my warranty, and then I have to baby it because it will still stain if I spill the wrong stuff on it.

I'd rather have a carpet I don't have to baby and that I can use bleach on to eliminate any stains. That fits my lifestyle much better.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

Nestor. It sounds like CCarlisle answered what happened in my case. 

The only argument I have with the solution dyed is that there is just so few attractive solution dyed carpet out there. So much of it is commercial and most of us don't want commercial.

My first carpet was a 48oz Monsanto "wear dated" silver label, so it was pretty much was like a DuPont "stainmaster". It lasted from 1989 until we had a flood from a hurricane in 2000. We were sorry to see it go. We vacuumed twice a week and occasionally cleaned it ourselves with "host" dry cleaning. Eventually, we got too busy to vacuum twice per week and saw the pile suffer.

We replaced it with a no name brand frieze by Mohawk. We hardly look after it. But it is doing well. We will probably change in 2 or 3 years.

We have no stains that show at all.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

CCarlisle. Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber.:wink: 

But everyone just calls looped carpet that isn't commercial, berber.

You should find nylons less than $50.

PET is technically a polyester not an olefin (polypropelene). I have never seen a PET polyester, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

HomeDepot23 said:


> PET is technically a polyester not an olefin (polypropelene). I have never seen a PET polyester, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.


PET stands for PolyEthylene Teraphthalate, and it's the plastic that soft drink bottles are made of. My understanding is that NOWADAYS, virtually all polyester carpet is made from PET plastic from recycled soft drink bottles.

http://pslc.ws/macrog/pet.htm

The reason why is because in order for a plastic to be rated as "food grade" so that it can be used to make food containers, it has to have a very low level of impurities.  So, using recycled soft drink bottles as the feedstock for polyester carpet fiber is a win-win situation. The carpet manufacturer gets a high purity plastic dirt cheap, and the soft drink bottles end up on someone's floor rather than in the landfill.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

I tried to stop my Dad from installing a PET carpet in his house. He could never keep it clean and stains were not easy to remove.

it wasn't even soft like my nylon carpets.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Polyester is neither the strongest fiber used to make carpet, nor is it the least expensive fiber used to make carpet. Consequently, polyester is neither the most durable carpet, nor the cheapest carpet. As such, it has trouble finding a marketing niche to fit into.

It's probably the most environmentally "green" carpet because it's made from stuff that would otherwise go to the landfills. But, few people base their interior decorating decisions on saving the planet. If they did, polyester would probably be a lot more popular.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_"Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber.:wink: "
_​Huh? :no:

Flecks can be put into almost any carpet fibre and the reason they are is to hide stains. Flecks have nothing to do with weaves. "Berber" is a weave - not a colour or description of the look of a carpet. Perhaps it is in sales lingo, but not technically.

"Host" carpet cleaning is the trade-marked utilisation of a *dry*, almost powdered, cleaning compound that is subsequently vacuumed off the carpet. Somewhat similar to baking soda "Carpet Fresh" applications for consumers. Trouble is, it doesn't work very well.

I would even venture as far as to say that Host-cleaned carpets will eventually degrade much faster and lead to replacement sooner than had the same carpet been properly cleaned. If you had ever seen the bottom of a Host carpet, you'd understand what I'm saying. 

"PET" *is* a 'polyester', chemically speaking...as Nestor pointed out. Not related neither to polyethylene nor to polypropylene - apart from the fact that they are polymers and "plastics".


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

Here's a thought. I think that just as important as the choice of carpets, is the choice of what are you going to lay under it, when it comes to basement finishing. Or maybe even more important, because your choice of sub flooring will actually determine how long the carpet on top of it will last.
Even if your basement is dry at this point, keep in mind that basements are prone to water accidents, plumbing and water heater leaks for example. If you are going for the carpet, you want to make sure that it will stay dry and mold free.
You need a non organic, 100% waterproof solution if you really want some peace of mind on the long run.
I suggest this product:
http://www.totalbasementfinishing.com/basement-floor-tiles.php

It is an interlocking tile sub floor system, specifically designed for basements, that can be laid directly over the concrete, with no need for adhesives.
They also offer finished all in one systems, including carpeted tiles that need no sub floor. The advantage of these is that should a piece get damaged or worn you can just replace it with no need to disturb the other tiles.


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 77 

 My Photos 









_"Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber.:wink: "
_​Huh? :no:


Carlisle. I respectfully disagree.

1. Look up Berber in Wikipedia.

2. Host. I have had many success stories with the product. Of course I have seen host at the bottom of carpets. I've laid a lot of carpet in my life. I will grant you that excessive use of Host will cause a softening of the backing. But I have never seen a carpet destroyed by Host. The same cannot be said of "chem-dry", Bonnet cleaning or steam cleaning. I have seen hapless operators ruin carpets with these products. Even a moron would be hard pressed to hurt the carpet with Host.

It is unfair to say my original carpet would have lasted longer with a different method as it was doing well until it was flooded.

Unless you are talking about my present carpet, which has 2 years in my opinion left. That would be unfair too, as I am embarrassed to say, hasn't been cleaned yet.

Or, perhaps, you were talking about my parents PET carpet. That was cleand using different methods. Nothing touched it.

3 Finally PET. I do agree that it is not quite a polyester. But this is its closest relative, or else why would the mills' samples say PET polyester


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I don't want this thread to become a contest, and I will check my facts on "berber" carpet...my sources are the CRI - Carpet and Rug Institute - which oversees the entire carpet industry and the IICRC - the Institute for Inspection, Cleaning and Restoration Certification - which oversees all the people who work in that industry and of which I am a member with 5 certifications in this specific area.

I don't put much stock into Wiki definitions...

It all comes down to the workers having to know their trade; restoration professionals cannot be in doubt about the tools of their trade nor of the methods to be used in different situations, nor indeed of the items upon which theese tools are to be used. So we all know carpets and upholstery fabrics and the various methods out there used to 'restore' them. And the consensus of opinions are backed by scientific research into methods and ways of doing just that: restoring...so much so that there are not only standards for doing the work, but a list of approved suppliers of materials we use. That's called the CRI "Seal of Approval".

I did learn something from all this and I stand coprrected on my thinking that a "cut pile berber" didn't exist. Well it does. But that doesn;t alter the weaving process that gives the name 'berber' to a style of carpet. And I maintain that "flecks in a carpet do not a berber make" - just based upon the assertion that flecks of colour can be put into almost any type of carpet of any fiber - but _that_ doesn't make them a "berber". 

If you have seen Host remnants at the bottom of a carpet, one could ask what they are doing there- and isn't excessive foreign matter in the carpet a prime reason for it's deterioration? 

Did you know that Home Depot owns "Chem-Dry"...and that Chem-Dry is reported to be the largest carpet cleaner in the US? did you know that Chem-Dry uses hot water extraction now to clean their carpets? whereas before they used a bonnet cleaning operation (and still do). 

I would venture to say that hot water extraction is used by 75-80% of the professional carpet and upholstery cleaners in the US. I would also say that less than 2% use Host. Are all these people, who probably number in the 50,000 range, doing damage to carpets? If hot water extraction as a cleaning method is well represented on the CRI Seal of Approval, why isn't Host?

I'll leave this disussion for now until I find out that my definitions correspond are wrong. And who knows...:whistling2:


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

"Are all these people, who probably number in the 50,000 range, doing damage to carpets?"

No. I said I had seen a lot of damage done by hapless people in the industries. I'm sure there are many people out there who don't run water temps to 180 plus degrees or saturate the carpet with soap and then leave it in the rug.

I do know that HD owns chem-dry. I didn't know it was now steam cleaning. I knew it as a bonnet method, which I am not as fond of.

I agree that we can't just call every carpet under the sun with a fleck in it, a berber. This is why the CRI as you cited or the carpet industry in general has pretty well confined it to loop pile residential and some friezes. I stated that pretty much in my intial post.

Why is Host not recognised by CRI or manufacturers like Shaw? It is a good question, because, like I said, it has done some amazing things on carpets I never would have thought would come clean. Host themselves are pretty well bewildered by it all.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

I have my own extractor, and have never been a fan of this "Dry Carpet Cleaning" process. As far as I'm concerned, the more stuff you sprinkle onto your carpet, the more soil there is in that carpet that needs to be cleaned out... even if the stuff you're sprinkling on and bonnet scrubbing into the carpet is supposed to clean your carpet.

I firmly believe that the best method of maintaining a carpet is regular vaccuuming with a good agitating vaccuum cleaner, and periodic shampooing of the carpet to remove dried up liquids spilt on the carpet.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Some Chem-Dry franchises use what most people would call 'bonnet cleaning' in that they spray a liquid onto the carpet, and then use a buffer with a cotton bonnet to dry it. The twist that ChemDry use is that the machine that spray their carbonated solution onto the carpet is partly a portable extractor. 

But nowadays, they are selling steam truckmounts to their new franchisees, and although they are using the same sodium bicarbonate/citric acid solutions to make carbonate bubbles, the process of injecting, then extracting with a wand, is the very process they lambasted for years and years... 

180 degree F at the hose is relatively cold for those large gas-guzzling truckmounts, or as they would have you believe...:laughing:. May be right tho'...

I think that the name berber has gone the way some names go: generic. It may well be that people call berber any carpet that has flecks in it. It's probably just simpler. I did find out that cut pile berbers were an invention of the berber manufacturers and that they are mostly nylon...I didn't know that. 

One thing I do know: all these methods (Host etc) are like the tools I have in my toolbox in my van. I have several tools that I can use when the occasion calls for it...cleaning anything is no different. Even marble polishing!


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## HomeDepot23 (Jun 15, 2008)

Great stuff. I don't know if we have helped the OP or simply confused.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Yup, good thread! :thumbsup: We'll talk soon I'm sure. 

And poor OP...he's probably set sail and is long gone!:boat:


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Still here.......you guys are doing a great job of occupying my days at work.:laughing:

I have done lots of pricing at different store locations and nylon def makes generates a nice price increase as mentioned earlier in the thread.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Oh, hey tiger...forgot all about you, didn't we? LOL

Sorry.

Most carpet installers I know carry jamb saws around in their toolbag to adjust the jambs to the height of the carpet. But I think they're available at retail, unless you want to measure then cut every one. But as compared to having the danger of ruining your carpet before all the walls and jambs have been put up, I'd do the carpet last. 

I also think that carpet distributors may be 'piling price increases on', in today's economy. Sure, nylon raw material prices might have gone up - but some say a 50% price increase in the raw material translates into a 50% cost to you...and that's not always so. Retailers markups are a much bigger part of the picture than nylon prices are, so be patient and wait for a sale.


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

ccarlisle said:


> Oh, hey tiger...forgot all about you, didn't we? LOL
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion. I am a little impatient being so close to the project end but I will wait and watch. :yes:


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## dieselcake (Jun 19, 2008)

First off the cut pile berber is actually called a "LCL" Level, Cut,loop
it those vine patterns, or diamonds etc and the pattern of the cpt is constructed of a loop design, the rest of the carpet is a cut pile straight up yarn.
These are BY FAR the most popular design in todays market.
I'm saddened by all the "old school, set in their own ways" carpet guys in this thread. feel like I'm working with my father who built the empire of a store I work in today, yet he has little clue on actual product knowledgement.

PET polyester= horrible
"oh I can bleach my stains! YAY!"
what does that matter when your carpet wears awful?

Get yourself a BCF "bulk continuis Filament"nylon
Stainmaster branded (A MUST) (1-800 support number to call if you spill something and can't get it out or are unsure on what to use)
Also, they stand BEHIND their products.
Generic or manufactures warranties are what I like to call "tail light guaruntee) It's good as far as u can see the installers van flying down the street after installing it. Most and all claims of non-branded fibers after one year and they basically give you the finger. Buy a stainmaster and they'll most likely replace it. Yet, problem is I never have wear or staining issues w/stainmaster
solid beber
LCL (todays trend)
or a frieze (popular also)

also as far as a pad goes get a 7-8lb, rebonded pad, W/ a spill guard on the top. This prevents dust dirt and liquids from going down into the pad.
Ever get your carpet cleaned and it looks good for a few day? Then the stains reappear? That's because it is wicking back up through the pad from the hot steam extraction that they use to clean it.

Go to stainmaster.com for a local dealer
trust me Home depot does not give this type and quality away and you are going to pay more or MABY(which i doubt less) but the headaches you'll have to deal with will be unbearable. (complaints.com) LOLOLOLOL

Also go to two stores, bring your floor plan.


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