# Crown moulding with a vaulted ceiling?



## cstrat

I did a search but could not find the answer. This started out as simply a kitchen remodel, but now I guess we are redoing the whole house except for bathrooms. As we go through the house we are removing the textured ceilings, installing crown mouldings and painting. My question is, we have one room, a family room addition, with the same textured ceiling, but with a vaulted ceiling. Is it common practice to install crown where there is a vaulted ceiling? Would it look strange? I don't think I have ever seen it done. Wondered what you think.

Thanks.

Chuck


----------



## AtlanticWBConst.

cstrat said:


> I did a search but could not find the answer. This started out as simply a kitchen remodel, but now I guess we are redoing the whole house except for bathrooms. As we go through the house we are removing the textured ceilings, installing crown mouldings and painting. My question is, we have one room, a family room addition, with the same textured ceiling, but with a vaulted ceiling. Is it common practice to install crown where there is a vaulted ceiling? Would it look strange? I don't think I have ever seen it done. Wondered what you think.
> Thanks.
> Chuck


General rules are that you do not install the crown molding onto the vaulted areas of the ceiling. It just does not look right.
Usually, the crown is ended several inches short of the area - that starts the vault line. It is cut and returned back into the wall.


----------



## Darylh

You could install some 1x boards on the wall and then double layer step-ed on the ceiling or just do the ceiling edge. Another option is to scape a even four inches of texture off all the ceiling edges and paint it the wall color.


----------



## Zel1

I'm glad this came up. I have been wondering the same thing as well. After looking at pictures on google, it appears some people ignore the vaulted ceiling and continue the crown molding at the height of the top of the lowest walls. Heres an example I found: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/crown_moulding_for_a_vaulted_ceiling.jpg


----------



## krazy johnni

You can do it but you have to put in a transition piece to make it look right.


----------



## sleepy23

i was just about to ask this same question. does anyone have any more pictures or has anyone attempted it? I have vaulted ceilings in my kitchen/ living room area and am really looking for a way to dress up the walls. I am not sure I like the idea of running the crown at the same height as the lowest portion of the wall. i will look for more pictures of that, but if anyone has any additional pics of that concept, i would greatly appreciate seeing them.
Thanks


----------



## send_it_all

I have heard people on these forums say that it isnt right to crown a vaulted ceiling, but I have done it a few times and I dont think it looks bad. You should have some experience with crown installation before you do this. (specifically with coping the corners instead of mitering)

What I did was run the crown up the sides first, cutting the ends at an angle to match the wall angle....(make sense?)

then on the top, you just lean the crown outward to match up the cope to the side piece you already installed.

On the bottom, you need to lean the crown upward, (flatter to the wall), to match the cope.
You dont need to figure out any fancy angles because the ceiling is vaulted. You just use 45s like you would in a square, flat room. Try to visualize it like this:...you have 4 sticks of crown assembled on the floor in a square shape, nailed together at the corners. You then stand in the center of one of the sides and lift it into the air, the other side still resting on the floor. This is how it will be when it is in place in the room the room with a vaulted ceiling.

The problem with laying the crown flatter to the wall is the fact that when you do this, the bottom of the crown that is supposed to sit flat against the wall, seperates from the wall, leaving a gap. What I do to counter this is run the crown through my table saw to cut off the original step (whatever you call it) on the back side/bottom of crown. This creates a sharper angle that lays flat to the wall. After I have cut and test-fitted my pieces, I run a bead of latex painter's caulk along the back of the crown where it contacts the wall, top and bottom, to help adhesion. I do this with all crown, not just vaulted ceilings. In fact, I rarely even hunt for studs to nail into. I just glue the crown to the wall with caulking and shoot nails into drywall. When the caulking dries, you can prctically do chin-ups on the crown without it pulling off. Its pretty strong. Make sure to have a damp rag handy to clean any oozing caulking as you go. Don't let it dry. Try not to let it ooze at all by keeping the bead to the innermost part of the flat on the back of the crown. Then go back and caulk it properly after it's done. This method of crowning a vaulted ceiling is probably not a good 1st time crown job. Hope this helps.


----------



## ralphie

does this work for 1/4 round molding on vaulted ceilings too.


----------



## troubleseeker

I personally do not like crown up a vaulted ceiling, but many people do, and it can physically be done, although not a great first time DIY project. This is an installation that leaves a great many finish carpenters mumbling. It is either done with a transition piece as one response pointed out, or by using two different size mouldings, reripping the top and bottom angles of one, so that the moulding can be sprung off the wall at a different angle than the standard factory mill profile. Using tha same size for the flat and rake walls will result in the piece on the flat wall being almost completely flat, and quite obvious unless it is very high up. The different size moulding will allow you to cheat the angle enough to force the cope, yet still maintain enough spring angle from the wall to not be an eye catcher.


----------



## Electricnewbie

Here is a book that I purchased and it gives you very detailed instructions and several tables to use depending upon what the pitch of your ceiling is.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10886&filter=crown molding book


----------



## HiFi

No crowns in the vaulted area...personally I think Y not go for it


----------



## mininurse

*crown on vaulted ceilings*

Does anybody have pictures of a vaulted ceiling with crown that is completed? We are building our house and are almost done and don't know what to do with our vaulted ceiling in the livingroom. help!


----------



## Wings42

*This has stumped me for weeks.*

This website is great. Thanks all.

I think that krazy johnni has the best idea yet, but it looks pretty difficult. 

I have the Crown and Molding book. Even with my engineering background and a lot of math courses, figuring how to accurately miter the corners with all the angles involved makes my head feel like exploding. 

I was thinking of building a box at each corner, and just butting the molding up to the boxes. That would solve the problems of complex compound angle cuts and molding edges not matching up. The right size boxes with the right decorative appliqués should look OK in our very large room that vaults up to about 16".


----------



## fyrzowt

Here is a web site that I like for photos and ideas. This page has photos of crown jobs they've done.
Lots of folks run crown into vaulted rooms.

http://mfandt.com/photo/Default.asp?7


----------



## Wings42

fyrzowt said:


> Here is a web site that I like for photos and ideas. This page has photos of crown jobs they've done.
> Lots of folks run crown into vaulted rooms.
> 
> http://mfandt.com/photo/Default.asp?7


The pinch-block corners is what I had in mind, except they look a lot easier to cut and install than the built-up boxes I had envisioned. Thank for the site.


----------



## RenovatorLLC

Gary Katz is a finish carp that now takes his craft on the road, DVD, web, and anywhere else he can make a buck telling everyone else how they should trim a house. Which sounds negative, but is not intended to be. He's a good guy, and absolutely knows what he's talking about; he's kind of the finish carps guru.
This is an article he wrote on this subject. It's worth the read, even if you don't think you want to do this now, but someday might:
http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/cutting_crown_transitions.html


----------



## dcoyconstuctor

i have done a lot of crown moulding and it is no problem for me.but i just went to look at a new job and it was a vaulted ceiling.the transition piece looks like crap to me. I was wondering if there is any way to mathematically figure it out?


----------



## drtbk4ever

Hey Guys,

I googled "crown moulding on a vaulted ceiling" and my trusty DIY site popped up. Great info.

I also found this site.

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/article.asp?article_id=60354

Anybody else have anything to add?


----------



## carpenter23

*Crown Molding on Vaulted Ceiling*

Installing crown molding on a flat ceiling is challenging enough. I have intsalled crown molding on vaulted ceilings before. I've actually done this in my own great room. It looks beautiful, but does take an incredible amount of patience and skill. This task cannot be completed without the use of a coping saw. Because you will likely have a flat piece running along one wall and a piece running along the vaulted wall, you need to first install the crown on the vaulted wall. If you have a 4/12 pitch, your angle cuts on both ends would be 8 degrees. Now comes the challenging part. Where the crown meets the corner of the vaulted crown, you will need to cut the end of the flat crown to match up to the face of the vaulted crown. This is where the coping saw is necessary. I like to refer to this cut as a "beveled compound miter". I highly suggest making yourself a cardboard template, so you can tranfer the shape to all of your corners. It will work for either side of your room by simply flipping the template over and using the other side. Also, after you have cut the shape from the end of the crown molding, you will need to use your coping saw again to make a 45 degree back cut along the shape. Imagine cutting a 45 degree bevel while your molding is standing on end. If you did this with a chop saw, you would achieve the back cut, but you wouldn't be able to follow the shape. This will take some patience and practice if you haven't used a coping saw before. Now the flat piece should match the face of the vaulted piece in the corner where the two meet. If you get it close, don't worry too much about perfection. This will become complete when you fill the corner with wood putty, sand and paint to finish. You will have a beautiful finished ceiling line.....I promise. Good luck and may God bless your home!

Carpenter23


----------



## LloydBurrell

*ceiling vaulted?*

Hi Chuck

How is the ceiling vaulted?

I’ve seen crown molding flanking the arched center section of a three parts ceiling. If it’s a barrel vaulted ceiling, I can tell you it looks classic.

Lloyd
*officedeskreviews*


----------



## Jay123

This bears repeating :yes:



Renovator said:


> Gary Katz is a finish carp that now takes his craft on the road, DVD, web, and anywhere else he can make a buck telling everyone else how they should trim a house. Which sounds negative, but is not intended to be. He's a good guy, and absolutely knows what he's talking about; he's kind of the finish carps guru.
> This is an article he wrote on this subject. It's worth the read, even if you don't think you want to do this now, but someday might:
> http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/cutting_crown_transitions.html


----------



## Cache

Gary Katz' method is usually the one used by the amateur because the supposed "correct" way to do it is by using two different trim profiles. The raking crown is an elongated version of the horizontal crown and the spring angle must be changed. Most DIYers aren't willing to spend the money to get the new profile milled for the vault, so they do it with a transition piece. Doesn't look right to me, but it is one way to do it. 

Personally, if I couldn't do it the right way, then I would either use corner blocks or nothing at all.


----------



## Jay123

I haven't seen any "amateurs" trying gary's method...and remember this is d.i.y. not "carpentry gods" :whistling2:


----------



## JakAHearts

I used the above method and I had never touched a piece of crown molding. It wasnt too bad. Granted, my wife and I almost got divorced over it but it looks nice now. I dont believe that my ceiling would have worked any other way... The book and the angle finder were too confusing so I just trial and errored through one piece and saved the settings that worked, marked the pieces as templates and wa-lah!

Shane


----------



## tpolk

i've done crown where the wall hits the vault ceiling line then carried it horizontal at the same elevation on the gable sides. we then installed strings of led up lighing behind the crown. nice effect


----------



## drtbk4ever

JakaHearts and Tpolk,

Please post photos.


----------



## JakAHearts

Its not perfect but I think it looks good enough for free labor! :thumbup:

Shane


----------



## Jay123

Not bad at all...if your labor is free...I can use some serious help with some lawn work this weekend :laughing:


----------



## JakAHearts

Thanks! I forgot to mention this is Focal Pointe molding so its not wood. Its very flexible and I just brad nailed the upper edge to the gabled ceiling to take up the gap.


----------



## drtbk4ever

Nice work JakaHearts,

Thanks for posting the photo.


----------



## mrgins

I think if you run the lower sides of the crown mould first and return them maybe 6-8" horizontally on the gable ends as if it were a regular installation, then you could allow the moulding on the sloped ends to die into the top of your returns. If you imagine an inverted upper case V-shape, you would see how that would work


----------



## JSM1119

*Flat trim with vaulted ceiling*

Great information in these posts...

I have another situation that should be easier...maybe...but its whipping my backside.

I have normal walls on the sides of the room and vaulted on the ends. I am trying to put FLAT trim at the ceiling level..as opposed to crown. Any sites you have seen to help with this. It should be simple in getting the "transition" piece but I cant seem to get it to work out....

lots of sweat and frustration.....


----------



## mrgins

LloydBurrell said:


> Hi Chuck
> 
> How is the ceiling vaulted?
> 
> I’ve seen crown molding flanking the arched center section of a three parts ceiling. If it’s a barrel vaulted ceiling, I can tell you it looks classic.
> 
> Lloyd
> *officedeskreviews*


Lloyd, do you have a picture of this? How curved was the vaulted part and what material did you use?


----------



## BigJim

mrgins said:


> Lloyd, do you have a picture of this? How curved was the vaulted part and what material did you use?


mrgins, that was an older post made back last year.

JSM1119, if you lay the trim flat against the wall and draw a line on the wall at the bottom edge of the trim past the line of intersection, then lay the trim flat on the other wall at the ceiling and draw a line under the bottom of the trim past the line of intersection, you will see how to cut the trim. 

Lay a scrap piece at the area of transition and make a mark at the bottom where the two lines cross, then make another mark at the top of the mold were the two plains meet, cut from mark to mark and repeat for the other wall.

Man, I just confused myself on that one.

I hope I am explaining this where you can understand because I am just not good at explaining.

While this is an old thread it has some good information in it. I have installed many many vaulted ceiling moldings and they looked great. krazy johnni has it right, there must be a transition piece on ceiling mold installed in a vault. The only thing I see wrong with that picture is the molding in it is upside down from the way I installed it.


----------



## mrgins

jiju1943 said:


> mrgins, that was an older post made back last year.


Thanks, I didn't see that. Anyone have any ideas on how to do that on a curved vault?


----------

