# How to get double front doors to close tight



## DangerMouse

Photos would be a big help here. how old is the door? new install?

DM


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## Advising Elf

Pretty straightforward: how to make the door close tighter into the jamb. Installed about 3 years ago. Always had the problem, just lower on the priority list than other things.


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## Willie T

Are you using an astragal on the 'fixed' door?


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## SPS-1

I don't understand. Do you mean you have leakage because there is too much gap between the two doors? In the center, my double doors seal on a face-seal, not with weatherstripping between the doors.
--Edit... I did a Google search on Willie's post --- seems what I called a vertical bar is known as an astragal


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## Advising Elf

Actually, my problem is with both spacings: the space between the moving door and the "astragal" (who names these things, anyway?) and the spacing between the doors.

The, uh, gentleman who installed all of my doors and trim did less than superior work. Although these double doors were pre-hung, I suspect they were installed improperly and the spacing between the doors was increased somehow.

Over the weekend, I moved the strike plate up top, and the hole in the bottom for the "stationary" door (anyone know the "official" name for that?) so that it closes tighter, but that did almost nothing for the other door. It *did* make the door have better contact with the weather stripping along the top of the jamb, but it may have made the gap with the weather stripping between the doors worse. The only way to change that is to move the strike plate in the "stationary" door, which is not possible.

BTW, SPS-1, your diagram is essentially correct, but you have the inside of the house on the wrong side of the doors. The root of the problem is that the seal is not in the position that you have drawn, but in the corner made by the "astragal-vertical bar-thingy" and the "stationary" door. If the door spacing was closer, it would seal; if the "moving" door closed farther in, it would seal, but not as well.

It looks like the last resort is my only choice. I'll have to stick weather stripping on to the existing weather stripping to bridge the gap. I hate this because I've had bad luck with "stick-on" weather stripping, even the stuff that didn't appear to be cheapo. I may just have to bite the bullet and put something on the "moving" door. I just have to choose what looks the least bad. I'm used to that, though. I vote in every election.


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## Ron6519

I would do whatever temporary measures you need to do to make the door more weathertight. I would not chisel or cut the door to compensate for an inproper install. When the weather warms up, I would install the door properly and all these issues will go away.
Ron


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## jlhaslip

can you shim the hinges to get the doors closer together? remove a hinge and place cardboard into the cut-out hinge gains. do 1 at a time. shim both sides of the hinge if required.
how much space is there before the weatherstrip seals?


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## firehawkmph

I wouldn't recommend this on a newer door like this. Jeldwen builds a decent door and it sounds like a lousy installation. Get somebody over that knows what they are doing and pull the inside molding and reshim the door. Whenever a double door is put in, if it is off by the least bit, it throws the alignment of both doors off. Depending on how the original installer fastened the door jambs, shimming may take care of the problem. If not, then whatever fasteners he used may need to be pulled and start over. 
Mike Hawkins



jlhaslip said:


> can you shim the hinges to get the doors closer together? remove a hinge and place cardboard into the cut-out hinge gains. do 1 at a time. shim both sides of the hinge if required.
> how much space is there before the weatherstrip seals?


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## mzova

It doesn't look like anyone has posted in this thread for awhile, but I too am having similar problems. We have a new build (Sept 2012). Front doors are from ODL. We like that the second door is not stationary and we can unlatch it from top and bottom to use. However, I've been hearing wind come from the top of the middle section where the doors meet. Builder sent one of his handy-men whose solution was to put a rubber cut-out on the side door. I've enclosed pictures. It hasn't worked. I still hear and feel the wind coming from the top part of the doors. I've circled it in red. Should I get the builder to come back out and fix this problem? My husband is hesitant as the builder is very slow in responding to our concerns. Is this something we can fix ourselves?


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## rossfingal

On your 1st picture -
you've also, got a gap on the door on the right (the handle side) -
I can see light - at the bottom.

"RF"


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## oh'mike

First thing----put a straight edge on the door and see if the door is warped. (curling in at the top)

Many double doors use adjustable hinges that allow the top to bottom hinge side to move in and out in the door jamb.

Take a picture of your hinges---if you are lucky--that door has them and the solution is simple,


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## Canarywood1

On your 1st picture -
you've also, got a gap on the door on the right (the handle side) -
I can see light - at the bottom.

I think that "gap" your seeing is a reflection from the flash of the camera.


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## mzova

rossfingal said:


> On your 1st picture -
> you've also, got a gap on the door on the right (the handle side) -
> I can see light - at the bottom.
> 
> "RF"


It's the metal sweep on the bottom of the doors.


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## mzova

oh'mike said:


> Take a picture of your hinges---if you are lucky--that door has them and the solution is simple,


Thank you for your reply. Here is the picture of one of the hinges. I do hope the solution is simple.


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## mzova

oh'mike said:


> First thing----put a straight edge on the door and see if the door is warped. (curling in at the top)


Oh, I'm sorry, I did as you instructed, it came out level!! Thank goodness!


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## oh'mike

Nope---not the expensive adjustable hinges I was hoping to see----

If the builder won't fix it--let us know---also check the door for warpage.

One of us can walk you through recutting the hinges of that's needed---Mike----


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## BigJim

Mike, you can place a nail set in that hinge and close the door real easy and it will spring that hing out and close the gap. Don't close the door completely, when you feel resistance gently push the door to spring the hinge, if it wasn't enough do it again. You may have to spring the center hinge also. Be careful not to put so much pressure on the hinge that it pulls the screws out.

One thing you need to know also, when bending the top hinge out it will also make the bottom of the door to drop slightly on the latch side of the door. It also will move the barrel (latch) down a little.

This does work, I have done it several times where there wasn't an adjustable hinge. 

Another thing you can do to the hinge, if the doors are too close together you can take an open end wrench, I think it is 1/2 inch or maybe a 7/16 inch. place the wrench over the tab on the hinge that is installed on the door, not the jamb, bend the tab toward the door on all the tabs, this will close the hinge and open the gap on the door. Don't over bend the hinge as it will make it hinge bound. 

Just know when you close the hinge up you are raising the top, knob side of the door at the top slightly, and if too much will cause the top of the door to drag on the jamb. Some folks aren't going to like this but, it does work.


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## oh'mike

Jim Look at that picture again---the upper hinge needs to be re cut and move in--closer to the stop--and the bottom hinge moved out a bit---

Casing legs are wracked a bit---


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## mzova

One thing I forgot to mention is that in my first set of pictures, where the doors meet and I've circled it in red at the top... the door with the handle is not even with the other door and protrudes out about a quarter of an inch, it is not flush with the other door. I can push with my hand and it will be flush, but won't stay that way, just springs back out. 

I've never delt with doors before...much less a hinge on the door. I don't know the terminology such as "casing legs", "jamb" ect. I'll have to google this stuff, as I'm a visual person. Builder seems content to ignore our concerns. Was hoping we could fix this problem ourselves.

Thank you all for taking time out to explain what the problem might be and how we could fix this. Oh'Mike and BigJim, please let me know what your final opinion might be. 

I'm going to try one more time to contact the builder and I'll take some of ya'lls expertise and share it with him.


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## kwikfishron

Are you sure it isn’t that “rubber cut-out” that is preventing the door from closing all the way at the top?

And when you replied to Mike saying the door is “level” exactly what did you mean by this, how did you check this and with what (how big of a level)? 

I think what he was wanting you to check is to make sure the door is perfectly “flat” in other words “not warped or potato chipped”.


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## mzova

Ummm, this is a fiberglass door and I didn't think they warped? But, we used a 24 in level and put it on the top of the door to see if it was level. Yep, probably not what we were suppose to do, but we are somewhat clueless.
I started taking more pictures because of what was being said, and then noticed that on the hinged side of the door we open all the time, a difference in the gap from bottom to top. I have circled in red with arrows the difference I see in the opening between hinges. Maybe that's the problem?

Gosh, I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to respond to our dilemma. We just got 10 inches of snow in North Little Rock, AR...so fixing this door is very important..especially when it comes time to pay our heating bill.


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## mzova

Let me surmise by saying we chose a builder in Arkansas we thought could build us a handicap accessible home. We have a son who at 31 yrs of age is a paraplegic from a car accident he had when he was 21 yrs of age. We re-located from Missouri to Arkansas last year. My husband is retired military and accepted a position at Camp Robinson as a military instructor. 

We were told that Jack (who built our home) had been on the ABC show called extreme makeover and was one of the builders who helped construct a home for a handicap child. We didn't have a lot of time to interview and choose a builder. This is going to be our forever home.

We paid a big chunk of change to have a custom built home. We used stained concrete floors throughout to make it more accessible for my son's electric wheelchair. My son does not live with us, but because of on-going medical issues with his spinal injury, we wanted to be prepared should he need to move in with us. We needed the double doors because of the width it would provide for my son and his electric wheelchair.

With that said, we noticed many flaws in our house, but Jack seemed more interested in his profit margin then appeasing our concerns. I think the solution with the door was a band-aid solution. I came here to read the article I posted in and thought we could fix this ourselves.

We are very new at DIY projects. If this is something we shouldn't do ourselves and need to let the professionals fix, then my question would be, what do we tell the builder so he can send someone out to fix the problem correctly. So far, he has ignored our emails. We just want a door that shuts correctly without hearing the wind whistle through the top portion of the middle when the doors are shut. That rubber thing they put in the top part of the door, not sure if that's really the problem. The door shuts the same way without it..meaning, I think it's just putting a wedge in-between the gap in the middle of the two doors. I could feel air come through before it was stuck in there by a handy man. I can still feel the air with it in. I'm bummed.....


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## BigJim

oh'mike said:


> Jim Look at that picture again---the upper hinge needs to be re cut and move in--closer to the stop--and the bottom hinge moved out a bit---
> 
> Casing legs are wracked a bit---


Man, I don't know why I didn't see that but I didn't.

Mzova, fiberglass doors can warp.


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## mzova

Oh Wow, I didn't know fiberglass doors can warp. Golly, how would I look to see if the door is warped? 

"the upper hinge needs to be re cut and move in--closer to the stop"--What is a "stop"? 

"Casing legs are wracked a bit--" What is "casing legs"?


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## oh'mike

Get yourself two playing cards---those are your doors---

Those doors are attached to a wood frame---a jamb or casing---the upright parts are legs---the hinges are attached to the 'legs'

If the legs are parallel ---your double doors will close properly---if one leans in and the other does not---the doors won;t meet in the middle correctly.

Play with those cards and duplicate the gap and I believe you will understand---

Now--take your level---see if the left 'leg' has exactly the same reading as the right 'leg'

If not you must move the 'legs' in or out---or recut the hinges to give you the same effect.

Double doors are the most difficult and unforgiving type of door to install---even experienced door installers dread them---much time and care is required---it's the 'old guys' who have installed many that get called in to fix these---Mike (old guy)


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## mzova

You're funny Mike! :laughing: Wish you lived closer...we would PAY someone to fix our doors at this stage of the game because our builder still hasn't responded *Sigh*

Hubby took the leveler to both "legs"...thanks for helping me understand, it all came together like a deck of cards! 

Both legs are level..reading on left and right are the same. Could it be the hinges...as when I look at the door and the pics it clearly shows the top and bottom gaps are different sizes.


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## oh'mike

Often the weight of the door pulls out the top hinge screws--or even pulls the jamb in at the top--

Long screws are often used to pull the upper hinge back where it belongs---2 1/2" 0r 3" --these are long enough to grab the 2x4 framing behind the jamb---transferring the weight of the door to the house framong---much stronger than the doors wood jambs---


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## Windows on Wash

oh'mike said:


> Often the weight of the door pulls out the top hinge screws--or even pulls the jamb in at the top--
> 
> Long screws are often used to pull the upper hinge back where it belongs---2 1/2" 0r 3" --these are long enough to grab the 2x4 framing behind the jamb---transferring the weight of the door to the house framong---much stronger than the doors wood jambs---


+1

This can fix about 30-40% of the door problems that we see.

The issue on most installs is that they did not properly shim behind the jambs to the framing so this gradual pulling over time throws the door out of shape. Even when it is squared and leveled back up, the door jamb is out of shape from having sagged for so long.

It is definitely one of those situations where an ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure.


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## kwikfishron

This is a strange one…Looking at the first picture (post #10) the reveals look pretty good. It sure doesn't look like the door needs to be picked up any like the last picture suggest.

You need to get a good door guy on site to figure it all out. Sometimes there can be multiple little issues contributing to create one problem.


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## oh'mike

Smart money is on a twisted door or jamb legs that aren't parallel----


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## mknasa dad

The frame is racked. If you put a level on the frame, and not a 2' but minimum of 4' but more is better. Put it on one side of the frame. Then the other side. They will be going opposite ways. Double door units are nearly impossible to have air tite, but that is definitely jacked up. DO NOT move the hinges in to the frame. You very well may open up a hornets nest. Have the builder get the door installed properly, not adding extra weatherstrip. BTW, that piece of weatherstrip that is at the head on your astragal, that is a Q-Lon corner pad. It does not belong there. It belongs at the bottom only.


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