# Which SW for whole hhouse ?



## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Ok well with out any pictures ill give it my best guess. Im a SW fan my self and i buy lots of paint from them and i mean lots. 

1 Ceilings: I like eminence. Every time i use it it works perfect. 2 coats is normally a better idea than 1. 

2 Walls: Well depends on your price. Cashmere (USA) Opulence (CANADA) would be my recommended paint. Same paint different name depending where you live. I would not prime my self just 2 coats on the walls and you will be fine. 

3 Trim/Doors: Depending on sheen u want ill just assume Semi Gloss. Use Cashmere/Opulence, Solo, All Surface Enamel. What ever you get a better price on will work just fine. 

Sheen's:

Ceiling Eminence only comes in dead flat. 

Walls Cashmere/Opulence in Matte
Bathroom/Kitchen Eggshell 

Trim Semi gloss


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

I, too, am a SW fan. And I agree. Eminence for the celings (only comes in flat).


I'd just go with pro mar 200 or superpaint on all the walls though. Plan on 2 coats. The existing finish is flat and will suck the first coat up leaving an inconsistent sheen. 2nd coat goes quick and finishes uniformly. Satin sheen everywhere (especially if it's an active household (kids, pets, etc.) Just start with 5 gallons and see how far you get and how it applies. I have no idea what type of texture you have but that will be one factor that plays into the equation. 2nd coat you'll get a better spread rate because the walls won't be sucking it up like the first coat.

I always use proclassic satin (7008 alabaster) on trim. Semi is fine also. Add a little water or latex extender to it to get the best finish. Word of caution. Pc can be tricky to use at first. FAIRLY THIN COATS. don't over work it. It is self leveling which is great but drips are common 5-10 minutes after you paint a door or?? Go back and check it fairly often and don't let you corners get too heavy with paint. Solo and ASE are great products also, solo won't hold up quite as well long term but eh...it has its benefits, one of which is price. It just doesn't dry as hard as an enamel.

Good luck!


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I would choose any flat wall paint for ceilings, maybe super paint. I hate Eminence


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Really guys? Promar 200? Which SW stores do you guys work at anyway? You might as well tell them to just get their paint at Walmart and save them the SW mark-up.

I just went to look at a paint issue last night on a paint job that is less then 2 years old. Didn't know what brand it was until I got there. Promar 200. Two different colors, two coats on a builders flat. The people who owned the office were it was were actually thankful that a drunk driver had driven into their office so they could get it re-painted with something else. Just sayin'! LOL!


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I also like the eminence for ceilings, if the budget allows it Cashmere for walls, and Pro Classic for trim.

I do kind of disagree with thinning the PC though. As stated it contains leveling agents and to thin or to use extenders affects those levelers. Yes it dries very quick so one of the hardest things to learn with it is "put it on then leave it alone". Going back over it to try and smooth out brush strokes is a no- no the levelers will do that. It is already prone to runs and sags right out of the can so to thin it makes this problem worse.

I learned this the hard way when I first started using it I hated it. I finally complained to the rep and he told me what I was doing wrong. Since then it has become my go to for trim paint. If it has to be thinned use just a small amount of water.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

klaatu, I don't know what galaxy you live in, but in mine paints such as ProMar 200 and so many others that you bash incessantly actually stick to the walls and reflect light. I mean, your constant hyperbolic rants really dilute your message.

I've found paints like SuperPaint and ProMar 200 to work fine. As for ceiling paint, roughly speaking, no one ever notices ceiling paint as long as it's flat and white. Sometimes people use an off white color choice which can be interesting, but the type of paint you use is not very interesting. It doesn't get dirty, it doesn't get touched, etc. It just sits there, reflecting diffused white light, like a flat white should. So it mostly comes down to usability. If you have white ceilings already, it's nice to have a white paint that can go on in one coat and not splatter, which saves you time and cleanup. SuperPaint will usually do that for me, if you apply it like a man.

For the walls, some discriminating people like Cashmere, and it's a fine paint, but the vast majority of people will never know beyond standard color and sheen. So again SuperPaint, ProMar 200 work fine for walls. ProMar 400 would be OK for a 1 coat covering of the same color. Any cheaper than that and paint just isn't really worth using IMO, just in terms of splatter, etc.

For trim each person has their priorities/favorites. If I'm doing a nice trim job (higher cost, more discriminating customer), I'll look for a trim specific paint with good leveling and protection, such as ProClassic in oil or waterborne oil. But frankly I end up using SuperPaint Extra White semi-gloss for an awful lot of trim and doors. Covers really well.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> ...Pro Classic for trim. I do kind of disagree with thinning the PC though. As stated it contains leveling agents and to thin or to use extenders affects those levelers. Yes it dries very quick so one of the hardest things to learn with it is "put it on then leave it alone". Going back over it to try and smooth out brush strokes is a no- no the levelers will do that. It is already prone to runs and sags right out of the can so to thin it makes this problem worse.


The only thing I'd say is that ProClassic actually comes in 3 different versions, and each has its own specific properties. I'm assuming you're talking about one of the two water based versions.

And yes, for a homeowner (very occasional painter) I wouldn't necessarily recommend a trim-specific leveling paint just because it can be difficult to work with. You either underwork it and get runs/sags/drips, or overwork it and get brush strokes and drags, which was what you wanted to avoid to begin with by buying that more expensive trim paint. If you apply it skillfully will it look better than standard latex paint like SuperPaint? Yes, but is that arguably small difference worth the hassles over standard latex semi-gloss? That's the question the homeowner should try to answer, IMO.


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

If i was pricing this job superpaint flat extra white on ceilings .Cashmere flat enamel on walls or low luster .pro classic acrylic on trim .great paint . i would use this paint on a big mansion or a little house in the burbs.there nothing wrong with pro mar paint ,but its not cashmere .plus a home owner probable wont come anywhere close to what the pros pay for it .


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ltd said:


> there nothing wrong with pro mar paint ,but its not cashmere .plus a home owner probable wont come anywhere close to what the pros pay for it .


Not sure what you mean. You saying pros get a big discount on ProMar, but not Cashmere?


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

as far as promar 200 or Proclassic they will work just fine. Reasons for my choices tho are simple. I have no idea if this person has any experience at all with painting. Lets say hes a novice. Proclassic will have runs and issues on the poor guy. Also takes forever to dry and cure. Promar 200 gets sticky fast and if you dont know how to roll and back roll he may have flashing issues. So yes cashmere/opulence matte will cost more but so much more user friendly. He or she can make it look good with little to actual no painting skills. Same with trim paints i chose. I tried to pick what would be the easiest for him to use as well as being great quality.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> klaatu, I don't know what galaxy you live in, but in mine paints such as ProMar 200 and so many others that you bash incessantly actually stick to the walls and reflect light. I mean, your constant hyperbolic rants really dilute your message.
> 
> I've found paints like SuperPaint and ProMar 200 to work fine. As for ceiling paint, roughly speaking, no one ever notices ceiling paint as long as it's flat and white. Sometimes people use an off white color choice which can be interesting, but the type of paint you use is not very interesting. It doesn't get dirty, it doesn't get touched, etc. It just sits there, reflecting diffused white light, like a flat white should. So it mostly comes down to usability. If you have white ceilings already, it's nice to have a white paint that can go on in one coat and not splatter, which saves you time and cleanup. SuperPaint will usually do that for me, if you apply it like a man.
> 
> ...


Maybe I never mentioned that I come from planet SOLD PROMAR 200 FOR 10 YEARS AND HAD TO DEAL WITH CONSTANT COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW OTHER BRANDS' CHEAPER LINES WERE BETTER THEN IT! The only redeeming feature that promar 200 has is that painting contractors can advertise using "premium" Sherwin Williams paints and then use Promar 200 so they can make a nice tidy un-taxed mark-up on it when they use it. 

I've been to 2 jobs since the beginning of November at the request of "END USERS" to determine why the paint that was used by their painter looked so crappy on the walls. Both times I had no idea what paint was used until they showed me the cans. At both of them I would have sworn that a cheap a55 paint like Colorplace was used, but they were both Promar 200 lo-voc. I bash the product because I'm the one they complain too, mainly because they refuse to call the "painter" back to give them such a 5hitty paint again. Yeah so it looks good immediately after the job is done so the painter can get his check, but long term the stuff is crap.

And again, if you have never used anything but SW,Behr, or Valspar you have no idea whatsoever what the difference a "real" quality paint makes. In all honesty I have no problem with painters using PM200 as a high end re-paint product. Sooner or later people with half a brain will figure it out and call me to meet their expectations of what quality is.

And, the question of paint quality goes far, far beyond the chemistry, application, adhesion, etc,etc,etc aspects and moves into much more intrinsic 
and personnel beliefs of what a quality FINISH the paint has. Paint that looks like chalk has no place on a persons home. Higher grade paints (purchased somewhere other then SW,HD,Lowes) leaves the end user with a much smoother, less chalky, and more durable paint for the same price any day of the week. That may be my opinion, but it is based on 31 years working for SW,Duron,PPG,Benjamin Moore, Pratt and Lambert, California etc.

My job is not to sell a retail DIY'er a crap paint at an outrageous mark-up but to sell the the best value they can afford. And that is NEVER Promar 200 for anyone with a brain. Just because it "works OK" doesn't mean it is a value for anyone but the painter. It is a high end apartment grade and commercial paint, per SW's own recommendations. Just because the SW stores can sell the hell out of it because it is cheap and the painters can get a mark-up on it when they use it does not make it a good paint for DIY'ers to use.

No if you don't mind I need another cup of coffee.:vs_coffee:


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

klaatu said:


> Maybe I never mentioned that I come from planet SOLD PROMAR 200 FOR 10 YEARS....... blah blah blah blah


Yes, you've mentioned it about 20 billion times.



klaatu said:


> The only redeeming feature that promar 200 has is that painting contractors can advertise using "premium" Sherwin Williams paints and then use Promar 200 so they can make a nice tidy un-taxed mark-up on it when they use it.


If that were true, they could just as easily use ProMar 700 in those situations, but they don't. 



klaatu said:


> And again, if you have never used anything but SW,Behr, or Valspar you have no idea whatsoever what the difference a "real" quality paint makes.


I and most other painters have used many more paints than just these.



klaatu said:


> Paint that looks like chalk has no place on a persons home. Higher grade paints (purchased somewhere other then SW,HD,Lowes) leaves the end user with a much smoother, less chalky...


ProMar 200 does not look like chalk nor does it have any chalky residue on the finish in any situation I've ever used it in. Neither do the better paints from HD or Lowes.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

klaatu said:


> And again, if you have never used anything but SW,Behr, or Valspar you have no idea whatsoever what the difference a "real" quality paint makes.:


That's a little rude to imply all of SW paints are not good. That is highly inaccurate and miss leading to a DIY type of person. I noticed Benjamin Moore is not on that list. I assume that's your go to as far as paint you recommend. But even BM has its issue. Let me state this is not a flame ware on paint manufactures but random DIY guys and pros like my self and others trying to help people. Coming on just to degrade a whole manufacture company is of no use at all. We just try and offer good solutions we know work from experience. Not to be rude but it seems like you dont have much painting experience. AS you keep saying people told you or u hear from a painter. Difference is i am a painter and i know what works. You can give me 10 dollar can of paint from wall-mart and ill make the walls and trim look good. Saying these things about Promar 200 seems to be more of a problem with who applied it than what was applied. Once again ill say i recommend Cashmere/Opulence as the ease of use in the matte to a DIY will save a lot of headaches and stress.

Edit: Fast edit here. Just used Quali-Cote low sheen. Actually very nice and was surprised buy it in every aspect. That wont break your bank as much and the lower sheen will be more forgiving. Good luck


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

I would use Behrs paint because it is cheaper and it covers gooder. And you can get it in any color you want. Seems that is all that matters to the people on this forum.


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

Klaatu loves sherwin williams. Don't let his resentments fool ya.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

klaatu said:


> Maybe I never mentioned that I come from planet SOLD PROMAR 200 FOR 10 YEARS AND HAD TO DEAL WITH CONSTANT COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW OTHER BRANDS' CHEAPER LINES WERE BETTER THEN IT! The only redeeming feature that promar 200 has is that painting contractors can advertise using "premium" Sherwin Williams paints and then use Promar 200 so they can make a nice tidy un-taxed mark-up on it when they use it.
> 
> I've been to 2 jobs since the beginning of November at the request of "END USERS" to determine why the paint that was used by their painter looked so crappy on the walls. Both times I had no idea what paint was used until they showed me the cans. At both of them I would have sworn that a cheap a55 paint like Colorplace was used, but they were both Promar 200 lo-voc. I bash the product because I'm the one they complain too, mainly because they refuse to call the "painter" back to give them such a 5hitty paint again. Yeah so it looks good immediately after the job is done so the painter can get his check, but long term the stuff is crap.
> 
> ...


Promar 200 works well in most applications. I've never seen it look like chalk or fail. Legal company's pay tax on markup, so I'm not sure what you mean by your tax comment.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't know, but your sounding more and more like a shill klaatu.

To reply to your comment about what the people in this forum care about, it's more than just what color the paint is. But for sure one thing we care about is integrity and value of information. And that seems to be lacking from you recently as you dive off the deep ends of your rants.


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## M4rtin (Dec 4, 2015)

Thank you all for help, I think I settled on paint to use.
Just FYI SW Cashmere/Opulence is $40 compared to BM Regal $53, rough pricing of what I can get now in Canada with current sales, and a 1900sqft home to paint.

-SW Cashmere/Opulence for main walls, eggshell should be better since I have a child on the way and a dog that likes to scrtach his head on corners leaving them dirty.
-SW Eminence for ceiling
-SW Proclassic for doors and trim, unsure of finish

I'm not sure if I should use Cashmere/Opulence and what finish on the wall and trim (both white) to get similar look on photo below, will be doing panels like that on one of my walls.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

M4rtin said:


> -SW Proclassic for doors and trim, unsure of finish


Again, that comes in 3 versions. Assuming you're not getting the alkyd, that leaves acrylic and waterborne alkyd to choose from. I've personally never used the acrylic version.


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

I'd use Pc acrylic on the trim. Personally, I like satin. It's pretty forgiving. If ya like a little more gloss, semi is the way to go. Either way, thin coats are better than thick. Don't over work it (brush it too much--work a small section or door or ??? And let it go) Check the edges and corners in a few minutes to pick up any small beads or runs. Once ya get started with it these suggestions will make more sense. And it will hold up really well over time. Eggshell is a good choice for walls. Satin trim will be very slightly more shiny than the walls if you go that route. 

Using good products, doing thorough prep work. Using quality brushes and tools and taking your time will lead to better, long lasting results.
One more tip- if you are not selecting a specific color and using white right off the shelf, have the paint folks "boost" it (add white tint) it'll cover wayyyyyyyy better than stock white. Happy painting!


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

M4rtin said:


> I'm not sure if I should use Cashmere/Opulence and what finish on the wall and trim (both white) to get similar look on photo below, will be doing panels like that on one of my walls.


Where i live in Ontario Canada, most trim i ever paint is semi gloss here. Walls is normally matte with eggshell in bathroom and kitchen. Opulence is a great product. Im sure you will be happy with the end results. One benefit of the matte on the walls if there is ever an issue touch ups are very easy and blend right in. The matte is also still durable. You can wash off dirt with a damp rag no problem. Just don't soak the wall and scrub it. As far as Pro Classic goes it looks great but not very user friendly so be mindful of runs and sags. That is why i mentioned Opulence in Semi or a Pearl or Solo in semi gloss. Keep us up to date with your progress. If you have any issues feel free to make a thread and we will do everything we can to inform and help you. Best of Luck.


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## M4rtin (Dec 4, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> Again, that comes in 3 versions. Assuming you're not getting the alkyd, that leaves acrylic and waterborne alkyd to choose from. I've personally never used the acrylic version.


Huh, must've missed that part, pretty confusing for DIY homeowner, too many options 
So I know that Semi-Gloss is the standard finish, so I guess we'll go with that, but have no clue as far as the alkyd, acrylic and waterborne alkyd.
Could use some pointers on the difference between them.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Alkyd is "oil based". Acrylic is standard water based (latex). Some newer paints are clean up with soap and water, but are called "waterborne" even though they contain some alkyd (oil). Their ad:

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/ho...plication/sw-article-pro-waterbasedacryl.html


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

I'd go with the waterborne acrylic. Easy to work with (once ya get the flow of it). Easy to clean up. Great results. Just my nsho...


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## M4rtin (Dec 4, 2015)

One more question...
When doing some touch ups on ceiling, walls and corners where I have some wall imprefections/holes and will patch it up and sand it, I have to use primer first ?

Which SW primer would be good for that ?


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

If your touch up patches are small (nail holes, etc...basically smaller than about 4" -6" around (ish) and you don't have a ton of em) then you'll be fine just using your product as a primer. Just hit those spots (we call it spot priming)with a quick -and thorough (no dry spots) -first coat then continue on with your project. If you are planning on painting only 1 coat on everything, spot priming twice will usually provide a more uniform finish. Might be overkill, but as a diy it's insurance.
Beyond that I use either Problock (only available in gallons) or Multipurpose (available in quarts or gallons) either will be fine. And both are available in latex versions.


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## M4rtin (Dec 4, 2015)

There will be bigger patch ups as I'm doing pot lights as well, and I'm moving my chandelier.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Any latex primer will work for small repairs. The reason I didn't mention the different Pro Classics is because around here if you walk in all you see is the waterborne. To get the oil it has to be ordered and the hybrid you have to specify that is what you want. And the reason I like the P/C is the finish seems harder and it dries really fast. 

The fast dry time is the biggest complaint I have heard about, not enough time to work it. This was the problem I had with it when I started using it, would start working it and could feel it start to drag. This was when I started adding Flotrol and extenders. Ended up I had more time to work the paint but it didn't level for crap. I was really surprised when someone said it had a slow dry time.


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