# Crouse-Hinds replacement breaker



## 220/221

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/507790/LT01221002E.pdf

I can't keep track of who bought who. All I know is that the are all basically the same breaker.


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## Norcal

Crouse-Hinds bought Murray, after Cooper Industries bought Crouse-Hinds the line was sold to Siemens, and they restored the Murray name, so a Murray breaker is the OEM choice.


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## junkcollector

Norcal said:


> Crouse-Hinds bought Murray, after Cooper Industries bought Crouse-Hinds the line was sold to Siemens, and they restored the Murray name, so a Murray breaker is the OEM choice.


Siemens and Murray breakers look exactly the same. EXACTLY. Just a different brand on the sticker...


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## 220/221

junkcollector said:


> Siemens and Murray breakers look exactly the same. EXACTLY. Just a different brand on the sticker...


 
It looks like they come from the same factory. One gets a QP and the other gets an MP. I TRY to use the proper breaker...only been called on it once by an eagle eyed inspector. If I interchange a QP/MP I don't lose any sleep over it. I know they are the same thing.


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## junkcollector

Alright, thank you.


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## Norcal

Siemens used the ITE design breakers they already had and dropped the Murray/Crouse-Hinds design,but unless you can come up with the paperwork saying it's permitted, it would be ill advised to use a ITE* or Siemens branded breaker in the panel.

* the ITE name has been dropped in favor of the Siemens name.


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## junkcollector

Norcal said:


> Siemens used the ITE design breakers they already had and dropped the Murray/Crouse-Hinds design,but unless you can come up with the paperwork saying it's permitted, it would be ill advised to use a ITE* or Siemens branded breaker in the panel.


So, a "Murray" brand breaker is okay, but a Siemens Isn't?


junkcollector said:


> Siemens and Murray breakers look exactly the same. EXACTLY. Just a different brand on the sticker...


 I'm getting pretty confused here...

I also heard that cutler hammer's BR line is supposed to be UL listed as a replacement.


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## Stubbie

Hi Junk

Anything interesting going on over at self help?

Usually if the breaker isn't listed on the panel door it becomes a who bought who discussion. Best bet is to look to "classified breakers" for a solution. Cutler Hammer makes a "CL" breaker that interchanges with crouse hinds type MP. The interesting thing here is that unless the breaker is tested to be used in that panel by UL you cannot use it unless the manufacturer has it tested for replacement purposes and lists it as such or if it appears on the panel label. A catch 22 if I ever saw one.

Anyway here is a list out of one of my catalogs showing what panels a cutler classified will fit. The list also has gfci and so forth that is not shown.


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## junkcollector

Stubbie said:


> Hi Junk
> 
> Anything interesting going on over at self help?


Ohh, not too much... Depends on what you think is interesting. 


Stubbie said:


> Anyway here is a list out of one of my catalogs showing what panels a cutler classified will fit. The list also has gfci and so forth that is not shown.


Thanks alot for the chart! That is exactly what I was looking for. Proof. 

Now, I need to figure out where to find a C-H type "CL." I've never that particular model, but it sure looks a lot like a "BR" (pretty common) 
The CL:








The BR:








I know it isn't the same, so I guess i'll have to track down one of those bad boys. I take breaker compatibility seriously because I don't want to be "caught with my pants down" in front of the inspector... Again.


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## Stubbie

Hi Junk

Here is a place I found on a quick search. I think you would have a supplier locally. In my case my supply house gets these from another supplier a few blocks away. They would also have to get the side clip thin line challengers there also. 

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com...circuit-breaker-636664.aspx?CAWELAID=42532087


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## junkcollector

Thanks a bunch Stub. You're the man!:wink:


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## bigbear

I have a Crouse Hinds MP panel (at least that what the tag says). I need a 30 amp (110) wiring for my RV unit. I was told that Murray is not the same, yet siemens is. Yet everything I've read and researched, shows the Murray as the same as the Crouse Hinds. I even took the breaker down and it matched up correctly, the Murrary is a MP 120/240 amp, am I safe to say this will be okay to use? Or must i find the orginial one? Thanks in advance


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## spark plug

*Question of compatibility & interchangeability of Breakers*



220/221 said:


> http://www.snapdrive.net/files/507790/LT01221002E.pdf
> 
> I can't keep track of who bought who. All I know is that the are all basically the same breaker.


Most breakers, be they Murray,Cutler-Hammer & some GE were interchangeable. I stuck GE (1/2") into a Westinghouse panel. The only 2 major brands that were not interchangeable with the others and with themselves were FPE (RIP) and Square D!:laughing::no::drinkNo matter what) Don't Drink and Drive!!!


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## 220/221

Murray/Siemans.....whatever it takes.

It looks to me like they come from the same factory/mold.

Someone once posted a pic of a Murray AFCI breaker in a Siemans package.


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## Norcal

220/221 said:


> Murray/Siemans.....whatever it takes.
> 
> It looks to me like they come from the same factory/mold.
> 
> Someone once posted a pic of a Murray AFCI breaker in a Siemans package.



They are the same except for the listing, so I use Siemens in a I-T-E or Siemens panel, & Murray in a Murray or Crouse-Hinds panel.


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## eric_miami

General Electric THQL breakers work fine in my Crouse Hinds panel.


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## Norcal

eric_miami said:


> General Electric THQL breakers work fine in my Crouse Hinds panel.


 
You can use them, but they are not allowed to be used in Crouse-Hinds gear. Unless you have paperwork stating that a competing make of breaker has been UL classified to fit in a specific panel, you cannot use it.


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## willy0314

Bringing this thread back to life...I need to replace a breaker in the home we just bought. It is a crouse hinds breaker, and the sticker on the side reads MP2020, with a bar code underneath.

I have been told that there are new breakers that will interchange with the old, but I can't seem to find any type of solid information on what to get. The Box stores and www.lawoolley.com here in town were less then helpful.

I did find this breaker http://www.andersonsstore.com/Home-...020-Single-Pole-Duplex-Circuit-Breaker-20-AMP that looks pretty close, but I can't tell if it is exact or not... Just hopeing someone with a little more experiance can set me right here. 

Thanks guys


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## willy0314

Ok..so after some more searching around this is what I have come up with... Crouse Hinds was bought by Murray..or vice versa...and subsequently bought by Siemens. right?

So I have a Crouse hinds breaker labeled MP2020. I found a site that lists a Siemens Q2020 as a compatiable replacement. Subsequently Lowes sells Siemens breakers. Links below. So am I correct to beleive that the Q2020 breakers will replace the old crouse hinds MP2020 that I have now?

http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Siemens-Energy-Q2020-20-Amp-Dual-Circuit-Breaker-6943039.html

http://www.lowes.com/pd_12435-1318-...0151&Ntk=i_products&ddkey=http:ProductDisplay


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## 47_47

willy0314 said:


> The Box stores and www.lawoolley.com here in town were less then helpful.


Try Davis Electric, they are in Cheektowaga.


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## Pimbhiriumb

*Google Search Wrodderse*

Google Search Pimbhiriumb 

LINK


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## deasey

_what size breaker to use on a #8.aluminum_


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## gregzoll

deasey said:


> what size breaker to use on a #8.aluminum


Any size you wish. Sorry, this is not a search engine deasey. You went theough a lot of work to unburry an old thread, sign up to post a question that you must have asked on some search engine, which returned this threa in the results.


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## petrgirg

Just bumping this thread.

I have an old crouse hinds panel. still can't get a solid answer every company listed that has UL approved breakers have been bought by another company or bought a company and changed names. A person at Lowes told me that Eaton breaker will be fine in the panel but just wanted to make sure before i put it in?

anyone have any clue? 

thank in advance.


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## Norcal

The line was sold to Siemens, and it has reverted to it's original name, Murray, the breakers have changed in appearance but still has the "MP" branding, Eaton may be UL classified to be used in Crouse-Hinds/ Murray panels but need paperwork to prove it.

Original equipment breakers are UL listed, some competitive breakers are UL classified to be used in other manufacturers panels, Eaton is one who makes UL classified breakers, SQ D is at the other end, none of their products are classified to be used in other manufacturers products.


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## CapinWinky2

Just to put this to bed, I also have a Crouse-Hinds panel and looked into this. C-H bought Murray and killed the name, then Siemens bought C-H and killed that name and resurrected Murray. Now, in 2020, Siemens is killing the Murray name. I contacted Siemens customer support to inquire what breaker to use and was informed that they have official letters from UL to cross C-H to Siemens-Owned Murray and Siemens-Owned Murray to Siemens QP.

It is official, the preferred replacement is a new QP Siemens breaker.

People should not be installing old/referb breakers. I keep seeing people suggest that someone buy a 10 year old breaker to slap into a 30 year old panel (especially for Federal Pacific); just don't.


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## James_in_SanFrancisco

Did you look closely at the panel label? The answer might be there for you already. I was looking at adding a circuit to an old Crouse-Hinds and the compatible breakers are listed right there for you and the inspector: MD, MP, MN, NM, Bryant BR, BRO, BAR, GFCH, Westinghouse NQP, QPGF. The breaker types are pretty specific, so if you find a breaker with the right type, you are probably pretty safe regardless of which manufacturer it is now. Anyway, Bryant BR is very common - I was looking for 50Amp DP for a car charger and my local Home Depot had 176 in stock.


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## Jim Port

Zombie.


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## flyingron

Siemens actually has been hidding all trace of the old Murray name of late. They took all the "MP" and the like and replaced them with "QP".


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## flyingron

ack


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## Norcal

The Murray brand has been discontinued by Siemens.


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