# New paint brush is clumping



## Thunder Chicken (May 22, 2011)

Were you doing a second coat of primer? If the first coat wasn't completely dry, attempting to put a second coat on can lift some of the first layer.

Also, soap isn't necessary if you are using water-based paints. You have to rinse the dickens out of them, but no soap. I don't know for sure what residual soap would do to the finish, but it breaks surface tension and might have some bad consequences.


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## john91 (Dec 15, 2015)

Not a second coat of primer. Just the other side of the doors. Hmmm. The brush instructions say to clean with whatever the paint I'm using says. The primer said warm soapy water. I rinsed it really well. Kept going even after it ran clear. 

But when it's wet, it clumps. I tried drying with a paper towel and it got a little better, but not anywhere near a dry brush. I'm waiting for it to dry right now so don't know if it will be better once dry. 

Is this behavior normal? I thought a paint brush would work the same even if it was wet.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

I think it would have been best if you had wet the brush with water and shaken out the excess water before starting to paint with the 1-2-3.

What happens is that primer or paint gets high up in the bristles (near the ferrule) and dries up there while you're painting. Then, washing the brush is ineffective at removing that partially or fully dried paint, and the result is that the brush has a bad hair day. By putting water into the brush first, any latex primer or paint that gets high up in the bristles won't dry. The moisture there will keep the primer or paint from drying up, and not only will the brush wash out faster, it'll wash out more completely so that the bristles lay flat like they did when the brush was brand new.


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## john91 (Dec 15, 2015)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I think it would have been best if you had wet the brush with water and shaken out the excess water before starting to paint with the 1-2-3.
> 
> What happens is that primer or paint gets high up in the bristles (near the ferrule) and dries up there while you're painting. Then, washing the brush is ineffective at removing that partially or fully dried paint, and the result is that the brush has a bad hair day. By putting water into the brush first, any latex primer or paint that gets high up in the bristles won't dry. The moisture there will keep the primer or paint from drying up, and not only will the brush wash out faster, it'll wash out more completely so that the bristles lay flat like they did when the brush was brand new.


That's probably what happened. Any way of correcting it now since it is probably dry?


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Every gallon of "latex" paint from every manufacturer and every single synthetic bristle brush made by every brush manufacturer i have ever sold or even seen says to clean "latex" paint from them with soap and water. Every f-ing one of them for 32 years. I don't understand how anyone can question this.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

My question is "why clean it?" If you're just taking a break while one side of your doors is drying, wrap the brush in plastic, making sure the plastic is wrapped tight enough to keep any air out. I use Wal-Mart plastic bags to do this. Just make sure you don't wrap any printed part of the bag with your brush or the ink from the print will get on your brush.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Gymschu said:


> My question is "why clean it?" If you're just taking a break while one side of your doors is drying, wrap the brush in plastic, making sure the plastic is wrapped tight enough to keep any air out. I use Wal-Mart plastic bags to do this. Just make sure you don't wrap any printed part of the bag with your brush or the ink from the print will get on your brush.


I used the same brush and roller cover for 4 months when I built my deck and never cleaned them once. Just stuck them in a big ziplock bag every day.


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## 1acre (Oct 5, 2015)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I think it would have been best if you had wet the brush with water and shaken out the excess water before starting to paint with the 1-2-3.
> 
> What happens is that primer or paint gets high up in the bristles (near the ferrule) and dries up there while you're painting. Then, washing the brush is ineffective at removing that partially or fully dried paint, and the result is that the brush has a bad hair day. By putting water into the brush first, any latex primer or paint that gets high up in the bristles won't dry. The moisture there will keep the primer or paint from drying up, and not only will the brush wash out faster, it'll wash out more completely so that the bristles lay flat like they did when the brush was brand new.


+1. and when using oil based products, dipping in mineral spirits beforehand is helpful as well. 

one resource that has helped me immensely is Flexner's book, "understanding wood finishes." after many trips to the library to check out and return, my wife finally bought it for me this christmas.


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## john91 (Dec 15, 2015)

I cleaned it because I thought I was done. I forgot about the other sides haha. But my brush did come back to life once dry. The paint I'm using dries pretty quickly so I have to work fast and keep that brush moving or it starts clumping. Should I dip in water while painting if it starts to get clumpy? I'm using Insl-X Cabinet Coat.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I guess by "clumpy" you mean paint is drying up into the bristles? That is pretty common with the fast drying primers and paints of today. I just keep a putty knife close by and use it to GENTLY scrape some of that clumpiness off.......you won't be able to get it all off, John, but you can scrape a good bit of it off. I wouldn't dip it in water as that water will find a way to run down the bristles and into your primer on the doors creating a small mess.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

john91 said:


> That's probably what happened. Any way of correcting it now since it is probably dry?


Unless anyone else has a better idea...

I know that at the paint store I typically buy paint, they sell a powder you dissolve in water to loosen up the dried up paint in paint brushes. Maybe Klaatu knows the name of the stuff. I'd try that stuff and follow the directions on the package.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Unless anyone else has a better idea...
> 
> I know that at the paint store I typically buy paint, they sell a powder you dissolve in water to loosen up the dried up paint in paint brushes. Maybe Klaatu knows the name of the stuff. I'd try that stuff and follow the directions on the package.


It's made by Savogran. Just called brush cleaner. It works well just follow the directions. Unlike the solvent based brush cleaners it is gentle on the brush and it is much less harmful to the environment. (it's the only brush cleaner I carry)

I think it's mostly TSP or Tsp-pf.


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

All you're ever going to need is a laundry tub or some sink with running water, and a wire brush. It's been working for me for 13yrs straight.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Maybe use the Savogran brush cleaner AND a stainless steel wire brush to do a better job in less time.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

I've had several of the purdy angle edge sash brushes for a few years, always use with latex, always wet brush before starting to pant, ALWAYS clean when I'm done using them for a few days (overnight is Saran Wrap and pop in the fridge) using plain old water and Dawn dish detergent, and they are just fine. Ron


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

ront02769 said:


> I've had several of the purdy angle edge sash brushes for a few years, always use with latex, always wet brush before starting to pant, ALWAYS clean when I'm done using them for a few days (overnight is Saran Wrap and pop in the fridge) using plain old water and Dawn dish detergent, and they are just fine. Ron


why?:huh:


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

ront02769 said:


> I've had several of the purdy angle edge sash brushes for a few years, always use with latex, always wet brush before starting to pant, ALWAYS clean when I'm done using them for a few days (overnight is Saran Wrap and pop in the fridge) using plain old water and Dawn dish detergent, and they are just fine. Ron


I've found that dish detergent works well because they contain additives to reduce soap residue on the dishes, and that keeps any soap from remaining in the brush filaments.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I usually clean my brush 2 or 3 times a day, I usually just use water and a brush comb, sometimes water and wire brush.


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## Thunder Chicken (May 22, 2011)

After you're done rinsing your brush you should knock it out and let it dry. Bob Ross had the right technique:


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Don't put your brushes in the fridge wrapped in plastic. That was an old school trick that worked with the old versions of latex paint. If you do that now with the advanced low VOC type paints, your brush will turn to goo. Wonder how I know this?


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

To me, it makes sense to put your brush in the fridge (or freezer) if you're using an oil based primer (or paint). Oil based coatings cure by a chemical reaction with oxygen in the air. Normally, an oil based coating will absorb oxygen from the air while you're painting. That is, both the paint in the can and the paint on the brush will both absorb oxygen as long as they're exposed to it. Putting the brush in the fridge or freezer prevents the oil based paint from curing because the cold temperatures slow down that chemical reaction with oxygen tremendously.

Latex paints form a film as the water evaporates from the paint. So, to keep a latex primer or paint from drying, you only need to prevent the water in the paint from evaporating. Simply wrapping a wet brush in plastic to prevent that water evaporation is all you need to do with latex paint. Wrapping that brush in plastic and then putting it in the fridge won't do any harm, but I can't see how it would do any good.


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## john91 (Dec 15, 2015)

Thunder Chicken said:


> After you're done rinsing your brush you should knock it out and let it dry. Bob Ross had the right technique:



I did this! I don't even paint as a hobby yet I can't stop watching his videos. Probably cause of his soothing voice and quirky commentary. But I finally had the chance to do this and boy was it fun to whack the brush back and forth.


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