# finishing a basement? what, me worry?



## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

here is a shot of the existing basement. i am standing in the bar area. the craft/hobby area will be at the far end and the tv area will be in between (where the space bumps out on the left). the utility area is to the right of the existing stud wall.








and another shot looking the opposite way, from the craft/hobby area. bar area would be at the end.








next photo is me turning to the left, looking into the child play area.








here are the pipes for the future bathroom. this is at the end of the utility area.








here is the utility area. i am standing in the future bathroom.








and here is a shot standing on the other side of the furnace. main electrical panel is at the end, on the left.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

the area i am looking to finish is amazingly clean. there is not a single pipe, piece of ductwork, post, etc. in the area that would require some type of boxing. walls are poured concrete, straight and smooth. framing this thing should be no great shakes.

there was one area where the above did not apply. for some reason, the cable tv coax was routed below a few of the floor joists, rather than through them. this would be in the craft hobby area.








solution? the splitters were just on the other side of the stud wall. disconnect, move to the other side of the wall (into the unfinished utility area) and reconnect.








and NOW the area to be finished is completely clean of interferences. i also screwed the splitters into the floor joists rather than leave them hanging by the wires, as it was before.








:thumbsup:


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

there was one other piece of 'pre-work' i took care of before really getting into it. in one of the floor joist cavities, there was a duplex receptacle. i always figured it was for a pool table light or something like that but i couldn't quite figure out where it was fed from. i threw a meter on it and it read zero. what the heck? incoming cable ran down the joist and turned up into the main floor. hmm...








but notice the hole in the floor, to the left. suddenly, it hit me! the previous owner had a floor lamp in the middle of the living room but there was no floor outlet up there. apparently, solution was to pass the cord through the hole in the floor and plug it into the receptacle in the basement ceiling. i went up into the living room, flicked on the wall switch for the switched receptacles in the living room, went back downstairs, threw up the meter and there it was, 120V. needless to say, this installation was not going to fly with the finished basement plan. i never liked that hole in the floor either so i could kill two birds with one stone: install a floor receptacle.















and the finished product.






















pretty cool little kit from hubbell. includes the box, floor plate and tamper-proof receptacle. there was actually 14/3 ran to the box but the black was nutted (guess they used to switch both receptacles). i busted the hot jumper off so now one receptacle is switched, the other is always hot. works nice for sitting on the couch and plugging in the laptop.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

okay, on to some real work!

first major task was to replace the little crappy 1'x2' window in what will be the craft/hobby area with a much bigger one. this window looks to the south and also into the backyard where the kids playset is. we can be downstairs and still pseudo see them. plus it will let in a ton of natural light. the more natural light in the basement, the better.

wanted to match the existing basement windows (as well as the rest of the windows in the house) so we went with kolbe vinyl windows, their 'latitude' series. existing windows are kolbe 'inspiration' series, which they don't make anymore. as near as i can tell, the latitude series is the replacement for the inspiration series (or is at least very close). went with a double-slider, white vinyl with white flat bar grill between the glass panes, in a prairie style. all this to match existing.

the existing basement windows are double-sliders with rough openings of 48" x 42". for this new window though, it was 'go big or go home'. this one will have a 72" x 48" rough opening: two feet wider and six inches taller than existing. called up the local kolbe distributor to get a price quote. $150.:huh:

$150? no way. this included the custom grills in the glass and everything. was this my dream come true? alas, no! guy called me back and said kolbe made an error. it was actually more like $400. well, this made more sense. this was for the basic window though. i added j-channel on the outside (to macth existing) and factory applied jamb extensions, over 10" long. the width needs to be that big since i have 8" thick poured concrete walls which will be covered with 2" of xps foam on the interior, 2x4 stud wall with fiberglass batts and finally drywall. with tax and home delivery, that bad boy clipped in at a little over $700. i could have gotten a cheaper window elsewhere but i really wanted it to match the existing.

delivery time was about three weeks so with the clock started, it was time to start digging a hole.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

i decided to dig the hole by hand. a machine certainly would have been easier but i really didn't want to tear the lawn up. besides, i had a couple weeks available to dig it out and hey, i could use the exercise anyway.

i pulled away a little bit of the retaining block. that shrub in the foreground is going to have to move.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

and more digging. notice that 'outcrop' on the right. more on that later.









the dirt pile grows...









between the rock pile, leave pile, compost and dirt pile, the back yard is starting to look like a landscaping company!









ugh. that space pod in the hole is the rest of the outcrop from the first picture. yes, this is indeed the leftover concrete from when the original foundation was poured. great placement, huh?


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

i bounced back and forth about cutting the concrete out for the new window by myself but once that giant wad of leftover concrete showed up, that sealed the deal: i was getting the pros. youtube videos of how dirty you get while doing this certainly aided in the decision. the first few quotes i got were really high, in my opinion. one guy wanted $1100. next guy wanted $900 but that didn't include concrete breakup or removal. another wanted $800 but still, no concrete breakup or removal. i was starting to get frustrated. asked the guy who i got the window from and he keyed me in on a guy. he quoted about $450 and that included breaking the concrete. they wouldn't haul it away but they would bust it up. they were by the hour so if they had to spend an extra hour or so busting up the leftover foundation concrete, so be it. i sure as heck didn't have any easy way to do it.

next step was to get the basement prepared for the cutting of the concrete. first step was a temporary support wall. we nailed it all together, just in case any concrete fell in and decided to knock the wall over.









a painter's plastic wrap and we were in business.









approach that the concrete guy was going to take was to cut the inside dry and do the outside wet. even though the basement is unfinished, the water cooling creates a god-awful mess. they would be using a fan to blow the dust out the existing window and open the window on the far end of the basement (by the future bar area) to draw air across the basement and minimize the amount of dust that will drift away from the window.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

> approach that the concrete guy was going to take was to cut the inside dry and do the outside wet. even though the basement is unfinished, the water cooling creates a god-awful mess. they would be using a fan to blow the dust out the existing window


Great post and it looks like you have a good plan,except the dust.
You may want to rent a high CFM fan for this because I'm telling you your not going to like the dust.
Any way you look at it it's going to be messy


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

so before any concrete cutting can take place, need to get all the crap out of the area. i wanted to get that done anyway as part of the general project. in addition to the dust factor, i hate setting a tool down and then not being able to find it among stacks of boxes, board games, kids toys, etc. the long term plan is to have some shelving in the utility area so i figured i would build it now to get the stuff out of the area to be finished.

first, supplies. building two identical shelving units. each unit is 6' tall with three shelves at 2' 4' and 6'. each shelf is 2'x8' 1/2" BCX plywood with 2x4 frame, including a 2x4 in the middle of the shelf. went with the BCX to get that smooth surface for sliding stuff in and out. each unit has a 6' 2x4 in the corners as well as one on each side of the middle of the unit.

































and in the final position









built the second shelf the next night (in between digging out the hole for the window) and slid it into position









next task: getting my wife down there to get stuff onto the shelves. i would do it myself but then she couldn't find anything and i'd be hearing about it forever.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

window has arrived (actually got here on monday, april 23). sitting in the garage. it is lighter than i thought it would be.

















ran into my first snag (Aside from the old foundation concrete in my hole). notice the depth of the jamb extensions. these are certainly not the 10 11/16" extensions i ordered! these are short and will result in the jamb not extending all the way to the face of the drywall. i ordered 10 11/16" extensions specifically to get an overall jamb depth of 14". this is the overall thickness of my finished wall (8" concrete + 2" XPS foam panel + 2x4 stud + 1/2" drywall). i pulled up the kolbe drawings and it showed a jamb depth of 3 5/16" (the thickness of the overall window). so 10 11/16" extensions gets me 14" total. i was a little steamed and went to double check the order and found the problem. in my e-mail communications with the supplier, we were both using the term 'jamb extensions' but on the order from kolbe that was sent to me for approval, they used the term 'jamb depth'. so it was my fault for not catching it but the supplier's e-mails certainly caused confusion. i considered returning the window, using the window somewhere else and ripping the extensions. in the end, i'll just trim it out with an additional extension and it should look fine. if this is the biggest hurdle i have to face on this project, i'll have it made.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

okay, concrete guy is showing up on thursday (the 26th) and the shelves are built. time to get the work area cleaned up.

the obligatory 'before' photos:

















after a little work:









stuff in the future bathroom:









and stuff in the child play area. this area is farthest from the cutting area and somewhat secluded so we figured dusting over here would be minimal









some additional sheeting. this will protect for the cutting as well as stay up through the bulk of the remaining construction:


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

wall marked for concrete cutting:









all our crap stuffed onto the shelves and the guest bedroom:

















and the final view of the cleaned up area. it should look like this through most of the construction (with the addition of building materials, etc.)

















concrete guys show up at 8:00 am the next morning...


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Your temp wall seems a little far away from the concrete wall. Trusses above the next story?

May have to relocate the exhaust/dryer termination hood vents 3' from opening window per Code if later inspection....

Gary


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

GBR in WA said:


> Your temp wall seems a little far away from the concrete wall. Trusses above the next story?
> 
> May have to relocate the exhaust/dryer termination hood vents 3' from opening window per Code if later inspection....
> 
> Gary


yeah, the wall is probably a little far out. plan is to install the window header right after the concrete guys leave. wanted to give them plenty of room to work. we did nail the wall together though rather than just friction fit it, in case concrete fell on it, guy bumps it with a sledge, etc. it is obviously an exterior wall but a one story home. i think it will be fine.

do you have a code reference for the vent clearances? this is an electric dryer and i thought there were different rules for gas and electric vents. i pulled up the dryer installation manual and it makes no mention of window clearances, only a 12" clearance above the ground and "any object that may obstruct exhaust" like rocks, bushes, etc.

i didn't think there were any window vent clearance requirements for bathroom vents.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

ah, found the code reference, M1502 says install per manufacturer directions but if no instructions are given, then use 3' clearance. my installation just says keep it 12" off the ground. does that count as 'manufacturer instructions'? looks like it could be open to interpretation.

i have means to move it if necessary but unless the inspector says something, i'm going to let it lay. window i am removing is within 3' of the vent and this house is only 10 years old. has this 3' rule been in effect for more than 10 years? i would think so. and if it is an issue, i suppose i could argue that i am not venting any combustion gases.

edit: and in regards to bathroom vents (which is what the other vent is), all i gather from the code is to not vent it onto public sidewalks. i should have no problem with that one.


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## Double (Feb 15, 2012)

This looks fun...I'm subscribed


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

Double said:


> This looks fun...I'm subscribed


thanks! i actually have a lot more done than described, just haven't had time to post the photos. pretty well caught up though.

as a teaser, i got up at 5:30 this morning to haul 2000 lbs of concrete to the gravel pit and got back in time to make a normal start at work.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

At least your project looks well thought out and organised,which makes for a good read,pictures where are the dam pictures


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

the big day: concrete cutting!

this was actually this last thursday. i had some work commitments so couldn't stay for most of the day. the father-in-law came down early. he was going to help put the window in after the concrete guys left but he came down in the morning just out of curiosity but also to keep an eye on things (it was, after all, a by the hour gig).

guys showed up at about 8:15 in the morning. i stuck around to watch them get started. first thing first was to get that excess foundation concrete slag out of the hole. junior guy jumped in and got to it with the jackhammer. it wasn't going well since he couldn't get a good angle and it was hollow under the piece (it slid down into the hole). have fun, i'm off to my office!:laughing:









my wife snapped a couple pics when they were sawing on the inside. the basement smoke detector went off and it looked like the house was on fire! we sort of lucked out in that there was a stiff breeze from the opposite side of the house. they opened the garage door as well as the manway door at the bottom of the stairs in the garage. made for an awesome chimney effect and sucked most of the dust right out the window.









notice the extra dirt pile around the hole. there was some cave ins from all the jack hammering on the old foundation concrete.









i stopped home at lunch to check the progress. old foundation slag was out of the hole and they had gotten to work on the wall.









and a view from the inside (go sooners!)









the old window frame in shambles


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

pretty good pile at lunch time









i got home about 2:45 and the guys were putting the finishing touches on the cutout. man, did they look beat.









now that's a hole!

















and that's a massive pile of concrete!!!









damage came to $550 which i didn't think was too bad considering the guys had to deal with that extra wad of concrete and my what-i-suspected-to-be-too-small-a-hole-and-confirmed-by-them digging job. plus all the concrete was busted up for me to cart away (other guys wanted an extra couple hundred bucks to bust it up and haul it away). father-in-law ended helping them out with some digging and throwing concrete out of the whole. he just can't resist getting involved with projects and by his estimate, saved them about three hours. good deal!

so with the hole cut, it was off to menards to get supplies for framing in the window.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

for the window framing, decided to go with 2x10s for everything: bottom sill, king stud, double jack studs and a four-wide header. checking the irc loading charts, i think i could have gotten by with a three-wide header but for an extra few bucks and no depth concerns, i went with four.

cleaned the concrete off with the vacuum and first put down a double strip of silicone caulk, followed by sill gasket and then another double set of caulk on top of that.









built up header under construction. went with the built up rather than assembling a solid one on the ground due to subtle differences in the concrete cut. note the lack of a bottom plate on the header. i had planned for one and measured everything multiple time but damn if i wasn't an inch off. not 1.5" but an inch. wtf? double-checked the measurements with the header and the window would fit without the need to put in that 1" gap. yet another gaffe on the project but nothing too bad.









shot from the outside, before the second jack stud is installed. note the shadows, it is getting late. notice the small setback between the header and the jack stud. this was done so the jack could be flush with the exterior concrete wall and the header could be more centered under the existing sill plate (plate didn't quite come out to the face of the concrete). that will be filled with a piece of 1/2" plywood later on.









and the final prep work, complete with some half-assed housewrap. probably didn't need it but father-in-law had some scrap lying around so what the hell...









final shot of the window before it heads home









and a shot of it installed!









sorry i couldn't get more pics of the install. the wife needed to help steady the window as we lowered it into the hole. the window flexed quite a bit since it was so long but we got her in there. about 1/8" to spare on either side but a good 1/2" clearance on the top and bottom.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

Looks good and I bet they were tired from hanging onto that cut-off saw.
I'm spoiled because I have a friend who has a track saw .


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

Ravenworks said:


> Looks good and I bet they were tired from hanging onto that cut-off saw.
> I'm spoiled because I have a friend who has a track saw .


when i first started talking about the project, father-in-law said we could rent a saw and cut it out ourselves. he said he has done it before. dude has built both his houses as well as gut-rehabbed another so he is no novice when it comes to construction. my dad highly recommended getting a pro to do it. he pointed me to some videos online and man, it looked like ugly work. plus all the guys were your typical giant contractor dudes while i am a stick man (mom makes fun of my 'grover arms'). i still had faith in the father-in-law's confidence but then i found out the sawing he did was on a driveway using a walk-behind machine. well, a walk-behind machine on the horizontal is way different than a hand machine on the vertical.

after all the work was done, he was glad i went with the pros, especially after the guy dry-cutting on the inside came out and looked like a powdered donut.

the wall saw looked really slick but was cost prohibitive. cheapest guy wanted $800 and that didn't include busting up the concrete (just one giant piece shoved in the hole). plus i would need a bigger hole to make room for the saw/guide tracks and would have been useless on that old foundation concrete.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Looks like a fun project! Subscribed!


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

CoconutPete said:


> Looks like a fun project! Subscribed!


thanks! stay tuned, i'm going to post some more pics tonight: better shots of the window, temp support wall removal and cleanup.


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## chicagoremodeli (Apr 7, 2012)

itsnotrequired said:


> thanks! stay tuned, i'm going to post some more pics tonight: better shots of the window, temp support wall removal and cleanup.


Can't wait b/c so far it looks like it's coming along nicely! :yes:


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

ugh, quite the mess leftover. there was surprisingly little dust outside of the cutting area.









before cleaning that up though, time to take down that temporary support wall









nothing too fancy here, just needed to whack it with a hammer

























and here we are!


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

now was the time for some cleanup. busted out the shop vac with a drywall dust insert to pick up all the concrete dust. put on the soft head and cleaned up the flat surfaces on the other end of the room. pulled the nails from the temp wall lumber (i can use it later to support the main center bearing wall while i move a man-opening down the wall) and stacked it up neatly. this was the final product.









now to tackle the mess outside. shot after picking up some concrete...









...and placing it in the trailer. i don't really have the means to store/bury it on my property and the local concrete place will take old concrete for a mere $5/ton.









still a ways to go









concrete needs to be clean for the concrete place to take it. this is the metal i pulled out. not too much. some j-bolts for the sill plate, some framing around the old window and a piece of bar that run under the old window. there was no mesh in the wall itself.









final look with the first load of concrete on the trailer. simply too much for that little thing to handle all at once.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

first round of concrete dropped off at the pit. got up at 5:30 to get there by 6:00 so i could dump it and get back in time for work. first load was 2080 lbs for a total of $5.27. felt a little silly on the scale with my 7500 lbs fully loaded while the big dump trucks were pushing 80,000 lbs.









that night, loaded up the last load. i couldn't pick up that piece in front and had to sort of 'ramp' it into the trailer. i figure it had to weigh 200 lbs.









this was the shot this morning at the gravel pit. so long, concrete! see you someday in a highway! this last load was about 1100 lbs. when i went in to pay, the girl said the scale was acting weird and that the dump was on the house. score! secretly, i just think she didn't want to deal with getting out the lock box and making change on a $2.50 bill.









and a final shot with everything cleaned up









rain and sand erosion will be a problem until i get the retaining wall up and gutters installed. in the second pic, gutters will run from right to left along the three horizontal trim pieces. the piece on the far left will have no gutter (might add it later). downspout will be where the shovel is and my wife wants to put in a rain barrel. garden is behind me and down hill from the downspout location so it is a win-win. guy quoted $195, installed. these are for seamless 6" gutters to match existing. ironically, this is the same guy that put the original gutters on the house about five years ago, for the previous owner.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Looks good. You'll feel good in the morning after having shuffled those concrete pieces around.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

had a bit of a disaster last week. some big rains rolled through the area on wednesday night/thursday morning. i had placed an order with the gutter guy but to get a matching downspout color, it was going to take a few days to get the materials and likely not be ready until next week (this week). so these storms roll through and water is just pouring into the hole for the window well. first round was around midnight. water filled up the hole to slightly above the sill plate. some water leaked in around the gaps and got on the floor. not a huge deal but i would rather not have the framing getting wet. the water subsided, i mopped it up and put the dehumidifier near it.

next round hit about 4 am. much heavier. water rose in the pit again until it was up on the glass. it got about 4" up on the glass and i was getting nervous it would break the glass. woke the wife up and she mopped inside while i ran outside to bail the hole out. good grief. rain let up, water receded but the water had piled sand all over the thing. i was too dirty and annoyed to go back to bed so i took a shower and went to work. more storms were forecast for thursday and i was racking my brain trying to come up with a solution. finally got an idea to use an extension ladder with some plywood cut to width and laid across the rungs, to create a flume of sorts i could set near the roof valley to take the bulk of the water away. i had to head home around 8 am to take the kids to school and figured i would take care of all this then.

pulled into the driveway and was pleasantly surprised to see the gutter guy there! downspout got in early and he knew i had a big hole so wanted to take care of me first thing before more storms rolled in. this is certainly a better solution than my flume idea! guys were crazy fast. 45 minutes from putting the rig in park to driving away. and just in time for the next cell to roll through. it was when i took the kids to school so i ran home afterward to see how things looked. looking out the basement window, you couldn't even tell it was raining. downspout was like a fire hydrant on the side of the house.

so one crisis averted, if only a day too late...


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Saved by the gutter man! Well kind of anyway.

Isn't it funny with rain? Your lawn crisps up all year and not a drop. When you cut a big hole in your house? POURS! Same thing happened to me last year.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

CoconutPete said:


> Saved by the gutter man! Well kind of anyway.
> 
> Isn't it funny with rain? Your lawn crisps up all year and not a drop. When you cut a big hole in your house? POURS! Same thing happened to me last year.


in hindsight, gutters should have been the first part of the project!

:laughing:


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

itsnotrequired said:


> in hindsight, gutters should have been the first part of the project!
> 
> :laughing:


Yeah I know the feeling. In hindsight, the "******* awning" i Built should have been my first step, not cutting a 7' hole in my house.

How are things coming?


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

Any updates on the basement?

The window looks great. 

General question here: Do you have to tie the window well into the weeping tile?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> Your temp wall seems a little far away from the concrete wall. Trusses above the next story?
> 
> May have to relocate the exhaust/dryer termination hood vents 3' from opening window per Code if later inspection....
> 
> Gary


Sorry on the delay, if under the "I" Codes, #31, 33: http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us/building/docs/2006IRCHandout0308.pdf

Gary


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