# accident insurance, totalled, help



## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Police report and a lawyer.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Turn it over to your insurance company and let them deal with it.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

It all boils down to what insurance coverage you have. Should you have liability only, then you looking at a drag from the other party insurance. If you have comprehensive, you hand keys to your insurance repair shop and drive around in a nice cute little NEW loaner car, while they fix it.
YOU ARE AT NO FAULT.

In case #1, you hire a lawyer that, 6 months down the road, hands you a hefty check for employability loss and potential future health issues. While you have all kinds of treatments during the process, massages, chiro, but you MUST do real care - x-rays, neuro, etc. Pallaiative care like chiro-s won't bring you much $$.
In case #2, you hire a lawyer and read the above paragraph. 

As of you car. 
In case #1, you on your own. With repairs. Noticed thing about lawyer? Her insurance should pay for repairs. If they decide to total your car, you take check for market sold similar vehicle, and keep the car. Find cheap repair shop (repairs should be around $1000 with 2 door fascii and new fender + paint job). NO ONE can take that car away from you.
In case #2, YOUR insurance hands you check for same type replacement vehicle, or pays for repairs.
Either way, you get an attorney.
We had this done 7 times I believe. Good business. Easy money.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1 

Good advice so far. 

FYI...you can buy the car back from insurance in many cases if they total it and just insure it for liability and drive it if you like it.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

I appreciate all the advice, whether it is good news or bad news.

I was told by my insurance company (farmers) to go directly to their's (State Farm). The reasoning was that I would have to initially pay for my $500 deductable, then wait several months for reimbursement.

My insurance said it was better just to post a claim against their's. I called State Farm and made a claim. I already had to pay $13 to get a police report, since it is all online and 3rd party now... just amazed how local governments are short on $$ these days.

The police report has an inaccuracy regarding the roadway diagram, but in general it shows the citation for right-of-way and the gist of what happened.
I will call the PD and see if a correction can be made.

My ford escape's side body cladding is bent and scraped...do I see if the shop can save it to save $$ so the ca is not totalled...or is that backwards thinking?

Do I tell them it must match the rest of the car period?

Thanks again.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That is a rather old economy car you are driving.

Your call---take the check and put it down on a a newer car--

Spend as little as possible on the wreck and save the rest--

or Fix up the 13 year old car---


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

What is the blue book retail value of the car?

That should be the starting figure and you negotiate up from there.

Why do you need the police to amend the accident report? Isn't the other party already at fault?

You correctly reported the accident to your own insurance company right away and you are not obligated to make a claim right away. At a later date at your option you can come back and make the claim with your own insurance company.

You may not sue the other party's insurance company but you may sue the other party personally. Then their insurance company has the obligation to defend them and pay any judgment awarded to you.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

You correctly reported the accident to your own insurance company right away and you are not obligated to make a claim right away. At a later date at your option you can come back and make the claim with your own insurance company.

You may not sue the other party's insurance company but you may sue the other party personally. Then their insurance company has the obligation to defend them and pay any judgment awarded to you.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

I just put about $2k into the car's mechanicals. I got three quotes for repair on my own. $2500, $3700, and $5700. The last two shops are used by SF insurance. So every shop said the car will be pretty close to totaled. The outside has one small dent on a rear quarter panel which I cannot claim was from this accident. So that will lower the Value of the vehicle unfortunately, however the rest of the car was in really good condition, no rust or dings or dents. 2001 Ford XLT with 99,500 miles.

A door panel is around $1,200! A short supply of usable parts I guess.

So they pay me $3,500 for the totaled car, then somehow I am to replace the vehicle I was driving? Can't be done. Will this other used car have a new front axle, bearings and tires? Unlikely. This car insurance stuff is a scam. My car was paid for and I don't want my monthly costs going up.

Of course my buddy now says "I told you not to spend any more money on that car." Yep, my crystal ball was broken, I should have known someone was going to hit me. :-(

The other party pays their deductible and is home free....life is not fair. They had a dented plastic bumper and it hardly looks bad...my fender looks gross. A-holes.

I also found out that they told SF that the dad was driving...he wasn't even on the scene...lol. This and the mother leaving the accident scene makes me wonder if everyone was legally here, since honesty does not seem to be their M.O.

Kellys BB is $3100 while 2001 Escapes with more mileage sell retail for $5k....big disparity.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Yep---an older car seldom totals out for it's true replacement value---sad but true.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

Who was given the citation? I'm sure it wasn't the dad, so state farm should be ticked to find out they were given false information.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

D270 said:


> I also found out that they told SF that the dad was driving...he wasn't even on the scene...lol. This and the mother leaving the accident scene makes me wonder if everyone was legally here, since honesty does not seem to be their M.O.


It doesn't really matter who was driving the car. What matters is, the person driving the car was licensed to drive. 
The car is insured regardless who is driving it.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

D270 said:


> Hi,
> I have not heard from the other partie's insurance yet. Basically I was driving into an intersection and this girl pulled right in front of me while she was making a left hand turn. She was cited as failure for right of way.
> 
> The crash was unavoidable, I braked and also swerved as far into the rightest part of the right lane as I could. So instead of a head on with her Chevy Avalanche, her bumper corner (her only damage) dented two door panels and my front fender. Nice.
> ...


The only way you will get top dollar is thru an attorney. Come up with a number plus your mechanical and tell them this is what you want. If they say no, get an attorney.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

The previous $3k amount was from a private seller from KBB, from a dealer (I hit the wrong link) is $4k. Still much less than the Comps I can currently find.

Here in Illinois, if their insurance company SF, is awful would I have any better success then doing a claim against MY insurance? (Fmrs)

They are liars. The mom disappeared from the accident scene, and they lied to SF. SF just brushed it off as " they didn't want to hurt their rates for a new driver) aww shucks....wth! lol


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

SF, or most any ins company, will try to total you out at their figure. Their liability is to pay your damages....make you whole.... what you are arguing is your damages/loss.

Kelly/Edmunds/Nada can easily be argued.... because it is in print, and only a statistical figure, does not make it valid for your circumstance.

Pull current (from the dealer, not private party) figures to justify your figure to make you whole.

Also, they have to pay registration and tax and all your costs to make you whole.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

One way to make the at-fault insurance company think twice about screwing you over is to make sure that you indicate on the police report that you were injured as a result of the actions of their insured. Usually the next day you'll be sore or stiff following an accident. Simply tell the police officer that you are hurting, even if there are no obvious injuries. A "complaint of pain" code on the accident report will let the insurance company realize that they could be paying for a slew of medical bills and lost wages, even if you have no intention of making such a claim. They may feel that if they lowball you on the repairs to your car that you might see a doctor for your accident related back problems, along with an attorney. Of course I am not condoning filing false information on the police report as that is a crime, but it is rare to get in a crash and come away physically unscathed.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Maybe I read it wrong, but if all you have are dented up body panels, why are they going to total out the vehicle? I thought frame/structural unibody damage totalled out a car.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

In my limited experience ,if the damage exceed the value of the vehicle--the insurance company can 'total' the car--and pay the current value of a similar vehicle.

At 16 years old,I was in a 'total' wreck:laughing:
A hot headed high school student backed into my van--just a dent that made one door open wrong---I asked him for $20 to cover the damage--He started cursing me up and down and then drove off---

So I called the cops---his insurance company paid $150--- Exactly what I had invested into that 1963 Ford Econoline! --Free ride! What a dip.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

Not sure about where you are, but here in Texas if you use your insurance it will count as a claim. I don't usually say go to an Attorney, but if SF is giving you a hassle I would.

Now having said that, I have SF and have never had any issue with them either paying a rare claim that we generate.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm in Illinois. The car drives fine. I entered an intersection and this huge pickup truck is turning into my path. I brake hard and turn away from her.
She gets a ticket.

Her bumper corner hit my front fender as my momentum slide my car across her bumper hitting my front and rear door. So three body panels. 13 year old car. Each door is $1300, so it adds up quick.

My plan is to showcase my vehicle as the best thing on earth to the adjuster, increasing the value in his eyes as much as I can. 

Then I will see what they say. If they fix it, I'm ok with that. However if they total it I must decide whether it is time to get a new vehicle (and new car payment) versus limping home...with a paid off car.

Ideally...it gets fixed, I drive it for 2-3 more years and trade it in.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

D270 said:


> I'm in Illinois. The car drives fine. I entered an intersection and this huge pickup truck is turning into my path. I brake hard and turn away from her.
> She gets a ticket.
> 
> Her bumper corner hit my front fender as my momentum slide my car across her bumper hitting my front and rear door. So three body panels. 13 year old car. Each door is $1300, so it adds up quick.
> ...


An adjuster is only going to point to a value in a universal guide book and you aren't likely to get more than that. Doesn't matter what recent repairs have been made. Shop the doors, I'll bet you can do a lot better than $1300. You can find a fender at a junk yard. Next stop Earl Schieb's.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> An adjuster is only going to point to a value in a universal guide book and you aren't likely to get more than that. Doesn't matter what recent repairs have been made. Shop the doors, I'll bet you can do a lot better than $1300. You can find a fender at a junk yard. Next stop Earl Schieb's.


 
I disagree, based on an accident I was in. Was hit by Fed Ex truck, no injuries. Adjuster gave me more money for recent new mechanical like tires and shocks.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Each case will be different. I was in a accident 5 years ago, very similar to this except the girl t boned me, I spun around and hit another car who then hit another. My truck was totaled, and the car I hit had very extensive damage, the one they hit wasn't to bad. 

To make a long story short I had a some what older truck at the time 2000 and this was 2010 ish, the State Farm adjuster gave me a number, I laughed, we fought they took my rental truck after 3 days. I printed off numerous adds for an almost exact replacement for my truck, they raised their number to something that was a lot closer to what it should have been. Then I went and took every accessory I could off of the truck including the new tires (they wanted a outrageous amount to buy it back). I sold everything and made up the difference.

On another note keep track of all the time you have missed work, and had to deal with their BS, I was injured in mine but when they came to settle on that portion I handed them a list of every minute I missed work, or dealt with them "on" the clock, Time away from family/work for physical therapy, time to research their offers, plus the rental on the work truck I took home after they took the rental away (would have been cheaper for them to let me keep it) Figure your time at $100 and hour (or what ever you feel) they will bargain back and forth, so start high, and don't sign anything until the check is in your hand. I made them bring me the check(s) told them it would minimize the time I "billed" them for. 

They complained a lot that I did that, but every time i reminded them had their driver not hit me we wouldn't be here right now. 

I feel bad for you state farm was an absolute bear to deal with. 


Good luck.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

Exactly what 1985 said. The adjuster isn't there to make you whole, unless you demand it. They are out to save as much money as possible on your claim. The liability part of insurance is just for this situation. They are liable for every minute you spend and every dollar you spend to become whole again, and you will have to put it in writing to show you are documenting everything. Not just a number for your "pain and suffering". Like he said, you bill them for everything. Mileage to go get an estimate, time spent waiting for the body shop to wait on you, the bottle of tylenol you bought because of the headaches you now have for dealing with all of this, and the mileage and time that was spent for you to buy that bottle.

In Michigan, we have a no fault law, which basically means even if someone hits me, it's my insurance that will pay to fix my car. My insurance company may go after the other person or their insurance, but that doesn't matter to me. So I don't have to worry about who the other insurance company is, because I won't have to deal with them. So my insurance company will actually fight to get me the most possible on my car, repairs and time spent. The only downside... The insurance in our state has all changed. My sister got t-boned by someone that spilled his drink and ran into her. It was the other guys fault, but with the no fault law, her insurance paid to fix her car. She's a good driver, hasn't had any accidents and had the maximum amount of credits towards her account, like the good driver discount, multiple policy discount, no accidents for 5 years discount. But now they call it a "claim". So, because she got hit, and had a "claim" on her insurance, even if it wasn't her fault, she lost all the discounts on her policy. So, because she got hit, she has to pay more for insurance. I checked with my policy's and it's correct, that's how it works now. Talk about getting screwed!


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

taylorjm said:


> Exactly what 1985 said. The adjuster isn't there to make you whole, unless you demand it. They are out to save as much money as possible on your claim. The liability part of insurance is just for this situation. They are liable for every minute you spend and every dollar you spend to become whole again, and you will have to put it in writing to show you are documenting everything. Not just a number for your "pain and suffering". Like he said, you bill them for everything. Mileage to go get an estimate, time spent waiting for the body shop to wait on you, the bottle of tylenol you bought because of the headaches you now have for dealing with all of this, and the mileage and time that was spent for you to buy that bottle.
> 
> In Michigan, we have a no fault law, which basically means even if someone hits me, it's my insurance that will pay to fix my car. My insurance company may go after the other person or their insurance, but that doesn't matter to me. So I don't have to worry about who the other insurance company is, because I won't have to deal with them. So my insurance company will actually fight to get me the most possible on my car, repairs and time spent. The only downside... The insurance in our state has all changed. My sister got t-boned by someone that spilled his drink and ran into her. It was the other guys fault, but with the no fault law, her insurance paid to fix her car. She's a good driver, hasn't had any accidents and had the maximum amount of credits towards her account, like the good driver discount, multiple policy discount, no accidents for 5 years discount. But now they call it a "claim". So, because she got hit, and had a "claim" on her insurance, even if it wasn't her fault, she lost all the discounts on her policy. So, because she got hit, she has to pay more for insurance. I checked with my policy's and it's correct, that's how it works now. Talk about getting screwed!


Always wondered about no fault, thanks!


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

Yeah, it's pretty stupid. Everyone in the state is required to have "no fault" insurance. So basically, doesn't matter who is at fault. So if you only have basic coverage on your car, and you get hit, you won't get paid anything to fix your car, but the insurance will pay your medical bills or any damage you do to others property, like if you hit someone's mailbox. If it's not your fault, you may be able to sue the other person or their insurance for damage to your car, but we all know how that would probably work out. Basically, if your car is worth fixing, you get full coverage to make sure it will be repaired. If it's a piece of junk, but still gets you from place to place, you take a chance of getting hit, and getting screwed.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

That is interesting, I can see the up side and you pointed out a big down side. It's taken me a long time to get my record clean and get the rates I have now I would be pissed if I got a mark because someone hit me.

My insurance company helped a bit basically told me what to do but for the most part was hands off.

It's hard to fight an insurance company in situations like this, sure you can get a lawyer. Heck I'm surprised 87 of them didn't call you with in 15 mins of the police report being released. But it's not a sure thing that it will make you whole again. I figured to do it my self, they playing the waiting game with me a lot it's just one tactic they use to get you to settle to a lower amount. They will bargain so plan on that and get to a place where you are comfortable. 


Oh and one more thing, if they give you a rental they will try and put you in the smallest car possible. In my cast I brought up the point I had a extended cab truck before there is no way I'm running around in a compact. They asked if I used my truck for work (I don't) My reply was why does it matter, I had a truck that is what I drove before your insured totaled it.


Keep ramming home the point, This is what I had before your insured damaged my vehicle. Keep letting them know you won't be budging in that aspect. Of course you will have to budge a bit. 

No different then trying to sell something. You want the most amount of money for the item, the buy wants to pay the least amount they possible can. Insurance companies just have the time/resources and tactics to stall,fight as long as it takes. Remember the agent isn't the one with out the vehicle.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Bud Cline said:


> Shop the doors, I'll bet you can do a lot better than $1300. You can find a fender at a junk yard. Next stop Earl Schieb's.


This is what I would do. Collect the money from their insurance and replace the parts yourself.


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## jimmyfloyd (Sep 29, 2008)

Find all the receipts for the Recent work you had done to it. Make a spread sheet with the dates, costs, and installers who completed the work, and put it with the copies of the receipts. Include any items that have been on the vehicle less than 6-12 months, as prior won't usually be considered unless it was major (new engine, trans, etc)

Then look for comparable cars for sale at dealers, CL, and autotrader for vehicles that are within 0-2 years of your car, and print out the ads for them that show the date and the asking prices for them. These will be your comparable vehicles. You can also look at the NADA and KBB dealer values for your vehicle and print those off. 

Using the comparables, come up with your "value" of your vehicle, based on replacing it with a similar vehicle. Remember, aim on the high side here, as they usually won't offer more than you ask for. Then, with the recent work, total it all up. Also come up with a depreciated value, which would account for the use of the item. They are going to depreciate things since you did get use out of them, so know a number you are comfortable with. 

When you are dealing with the insurance adjuster and they make you an offer, the comparables will allow you to counter and state that this is the value you believe your car is worth. By having hard evidence, this will show that you are within reason. Then, once you have negotiated a price on the car, bring up the money for work done to the car and try to negotiate some reimbursement for that. 

In the end, it sounds like your car will be totalled. If you negotiate the good price, you can ask for the Buy-back cost of the vehicle if it is still drivable and you like it. Usually the buy back is super low. It would not surprise me if it was $500 or less. When you buy it back, nothing really changes and no need to re-register. Many insurance companies also do not brand it as salvage/totaled if the owner buys it back and it's older than 7-10 years. You can then use the money you got, have it fixed where you want, or pocket the money and drive it as is until you find the vehicle you want to replace it with.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

The next thing and they are already there, is when they removed the rental. This is a strong arm to get him to give in. That's why I suggested to get an attorney. Make them a final offer, if they come to the table great, if not be prepared to accept what they offer or hire an attorney. In my accident, they, not state farm but the hired third party adjuster, did the same thing. The only thing that saved me was that my truck had actually gone up in value because of the market and I made money.

Be very careful though about *NEW* unsubstantiated allegations of injuries.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

taylorjm said:


> IThe only downside... The insurance in our state has all changed. My sister got t-boned by someone that spilled his drink and ran into her. It was the other guys fault, but with the no fault law, her insurance paid to fix her car. She's a good driver, hasn't had any accidents and had the maximum amount of credits towards her account, like the good driver discount, multiple policy discount, no accidents for 5 years discount. But now they call it a "claim". So, because she got hit, and had a "claim" on her insurance, even if it wasn't her fault, she lost all the discounts on her policy. So, because she got hit, she has to pay more for insurance. I checked with my policy's and it's correct, that's how it works now. Talk about getting screwed!


Do other insurance companies have different terms and conditions and/or would give you a net lower rate compared to your present company?


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

Well, basically, after an accident, you start over, just like if you walked in off the street and started insurance. So yes, you could change, and you might save a couple bucks, but the real discounts kick in after you have been a customer awhile without any claims. I think right now I get about 18% off the base rate because I haven't had a claim in years, haven't had any kind of infraction, have 3 vehicles, a homeowners and business policy, etc. But once I have a claim, I would expect to lose almost all those discounts because I would have a claim. I had someone key my door once, and called the insurance agent and she told me they can claim it out, but I'd lose my discount, which would probably add up to more than just paying to repaint the door.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

If anyone knows...
I noticed some body shops are quoting replacing the body cladding.
A) It won't match with what has been sun bleached for 13 years
B) It seems like it is intact, possibly some deep scuffs...but better than a mismatch...see (A)

Also, the fender cladding blends into the front bumper and the front bumper on that edge has a broken clip. One shop quoted a new bumper...again, what's the point?

I'm trying to balance saving items to save money and save my car from being totaled. Does anyone know...engine emblems like "V6" or "Escape"...can they be removed and replaced....again the shop is getting new...$70 for both. It seems like a small cost, but every dollar will count against me.

Thanks again guys...


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

AllanJ said:


> Do other insurance companies have different terms and conditions and/or would give you a net lower rate compared to your present company?


 
Been with State farm for over 30 years with cars, home, condo and motorcycle. 4 years ago they went up on my home policy so much, I switched the home and the motorcycle to two other insurance carriers. With the new carrier for the home, I inquired about cars. They asked about accidents and I told them my wife had one just a little over 3 years ago, they replied OK we use 5 years for accidents so there will be a penalty.

So unless you go to someone like Liberty Mutual who advertise accident forgiveness, I don't think you will get too much better rates.


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

I used to be with State Farm...would have been easier if we had the same insurance company. State Farm kept going up up up...and our agent just blew us off when we wanted to discuss renegotiating. So we left and went to Farmers.

Our Farmers agent is very hands off (meaning not very helpful!). The initially said they wouldn't insure my car..and I was going to take my business (home, other car, etc.) and go elsewhere. The owner of the branch just told me he would insure for liability only...which makes sense.

Now I need to look at Illinois' rules for getting a clean title after a salvage.

If I hadn't just thrown 3K into the car I could the accept the impending "total" since it looks like it is going that way from my independant repair shops I visited. Another car payment with low monthly cash flow (house poor) doesn't make sense to me. Plus the damage was only superficial sheet metal, and finally it's got 99K miles...I don't drive it a lot anyway.


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## digitalplumber (Jul 8, 2011)

D270 said:


> I used to be with State Farm...would have been easier if we had the same insurance company. State Farm kept going up up up...and our agent just blew us off when we wanted to discuss renegotiating. So we left and went to Farmers.
> 
> Our Farmers agent is very hands off (meaning not very helpful!). The initially said they wouldn't insure my car..and I was going to take my business (home, other car, etc.) and go elsewhere. The owner of the branch just told me he would insure for liability only...which makes sense.
> 
> ...


Agents can no longer help, their hands are tied. As far as same insurance company, no you don't want that either.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

D270 said:


> If anyone knows...
> I noticed some body shops are quoting replacing the body cladding.
> A) It won't match with what has been sun bleached for 13 years
> B) It seems like it is intact, possibly some deep scuffs...but better than a mismatch...see (A)
> ...


Does the door still open and close as it should?


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

The door handle does not go flush, but the door still works fine. The power window only retracts about halfway.

Thats the rub....a car that is totaled because of frame damage or other mechanicals is much different than all this cosmetic damage.

Unfortunately, totaled means totaled...and a salvaged title does not have an asterisk of why it was totaled.


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## What have I done (May 28, 2006)

How did this all turn out? Hopefully you got a check for $3000 +++ from the insurance company and kept the vehicle...that could of been repaired and driven for years for less than $2000. Bank the rest for the aggrevation.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Didn't realize it was an old thread


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## D270 (Mar 27, 2011)

nap said:


> Didn't realize it was an old thread


That's ok!
So it worked out ok. I worked with the shop and we were able to keep the costs down to not total out the car. Lots of lost time.


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