# Botched asbestos removal in home...



## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

runfrombears said:


> And please don't tell me to bring in the pros, that is *not* an option.


For medical questions do you just ask around or do you see a MD?


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

PaliBob said:


> For medical questions do you just ask around or do you see a MD?


Well I know true HEPA cleans asbestos, i've talked to the pros about that. Finding a consumer level hepa that doesn't leak is what i'm seeking. Either that or I go and buy abatement HEPA vacuums that are $800 which is overkill


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

runfrombears said:


> The only vacuums I know that are rated for asbestos are $700. And they use HEPA....


 $700 is Cheap. I have a Festool CT 22 Dust Extractor that is rated for 0.3 micron filtration that is *NOT* rated for asbestos and costs over $500
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18131&cookietest=1

Even if you could get a free asbestos Dust Extractor the following point is far more important:


runfrombears said:


> So if I could find a consumer grade vacuum that I know is air tight *it should do the same job*..


*Absolutely NOT
*The Dust extraction tool is only a small part of the problem. Just as important all the personal protection and barrier construction to seal off the area. 

Then and this is a BIGGIE how to dispose of the vacuum bags, now contaminated filters, contaminated protective suit and booties, and all the plastic sheeting and tape used to hold the whole shebang together.
Did you think about this problem?

*This is NO DIY Project*




runfrombears said:


> Is it normal for contractors to totally laugh about this stuff?


 Any Contractor with any kind of license takes this *VERY* seriously


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> And please don't tell me to bring in the pros, that is not an option.


You seem to keep making the same mistakes. Why do you not learn from them?

You need to call the Professionals and stop thinking you are smarter than they are. Health risks exist here.


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

PaliBob said:


> $700 is Cheap. I have a Festool CT 22 Dust Extractor that is rated for 0.3 micron filtration that is *NOT* rated for asbestos and costs over $500
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18131&cookietest=1
> 
> Even if you could get a free asbestos Dust Extractor the following point is far more important:*Absolutely NOT
> ...


They all laugh about it here


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> You seem to keep making the same mistakes. Why do you not learn from them?
> 
> You need to call the Professionals and stop thinking you are smarter than they are. Health risks exist here.


I told you the options if you want to ignore my question go ahead. The pros aren't coming in, except to do an air test after i've vacuumed everything up.

I've talked to abatement contractors and they say a hepa vacuum is fine, so whos word should I take?


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

You're an idiot. You do not have the knowledge or experience to be doing what you are doing. Just a heads up there are serious legal consequences for improper containment and disposal of asbestos. When doing asbestos removal or working with asbestos companies are required to keep records on all employees exposed for at least twenty years. Do yourself, your family, and the general public a favor and hire a licensed abatement company.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I hope you live alone :huh:

But:



> *Asbestos abatement (removal) contractors* — anyone handling or removing asbestos in Washington
> 
> Must be certified. Find out more ...
> Must also notify L&I of any asbestos abatement projects they are going to work on 10 days prior to starting.  Notify L&I of your asbestos projects.
> ...


BUT:



> A growing number of doctors and researchers are concerned about the long-term effects of low-level exposure. As a rule, asbestos fibers tend to attach themselves *permanently* to lung tissue; long term, residual accumulation might eventually cause disease.
> 
> *The prudent assumption, according to the EPA, is that there is “no safe exposure” to airborne asbestos.*


AND:



> *Do-It-Yourself Asbestos Abatement Process*
> 
> After asbestos has been located in the home, there are two options: hire a professional abatement team, or remove the asbestos yourself. Although removing the asbestos without a specialized company often brings further complications and is costly, some homeowners feel as though it is the best option. In order to ensure the highest safety measures for you and your family, it is important to obtain samples and have it tested to make sure asbestos has indeed contaminated the area. You can then proceed with the abatement process after a diagnosis of the room has been performed. Once again, it cannot be stressed enough that asbestos, if left alone, is non-toxic. By removing undisturbed asbestos, you could be creating more of a problem (health wise and financially) if you choose to remove it.
> Removing asbestos is not an easy task. *By taking on this type of project and the responsibility associated with it, you are foregoing any legal help that you could have received by hiring a professional abatement company.* When you do decide to take on the project, it is important to have a game plan. The first steps should include: getting proper breathing ventilation systems for yourself and others that may be working on the project, *purchasing protective clothing that can be thrown away after abatement is complete and becoming aware of state and federal regulations when removing asbestos on your own. *
> ...


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

It's already been removed. Man i've been looking for consumer vacuums all afternoon with no luck finding true hepa. (under $400)

Lets see take the advice from abatement contractor with 20 years experience. Or some hypochondriac hippies on an internet forum.


My plans are clean up what was already removed. Paint and seal. Then yes i'm brining in a pro to do an air test. AFTER things are painted and sealed. Everything is legal here.


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

Also if this substance was so dangerous, why don't they close off all the natural occuring deposits ALL OVER CALIFORNIA?!


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

runfrombears said:


> Also if this substance was so dangerous, why don't they close off all the natural occuring deposits ALL OVER CALIFORNIA?!


Because asbestos is only dangerous when it is friable/disturbed.


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## Aggie67 (Dec 20, 2008)

Personally, my recommendation is to not try to jury rig a retail vacuum cleaner into something it wasn't mean to do. It will leak, and you'll end up with asbestos left behind, which will get kicked up and into the ductwork, your clothes, bed spreads, you'll fail any air test, and it will be in that house forever. Hopefully this isn't a flip. If you get caught doing that as part of a flip, they call that a willful disregard of public safety, and well, I just strongly recommend you fix the problem within the law.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Lets see take the advice from abatement contractor with 20 years experience. *Or some hypochondriac hippies on an internet forum*.


I feel so sorry for you. You come here to ask for advice then you blast those of us that try to help you. You are a very ignorant person. Look up the definition of hypochondriac, that word doesn't begin to fit what you are trying to say. Not only are you thankless and ignorant of life you are also uneducated.

Good luck to you. I'm outa here. You're welcome by the way.


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> I feel so sorry for you. You come here to ask for advice then you blast those of us that try to help you. You are a very ignorant person. Look up the definition of hypochondriac, that word doesn't begin to fit what you are trying to say. Not only are you thankless and ignorant of life you are also uneducated.
> 
> Good luck to you. I'm outa here. You're welcome by the way.


Cut me some slack I was pissed off and ranting. I'm definitely not thrilled about the situation, and I don't have the money....


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Alright. This looks like a rant. And having read through all of the ranting, and some mis-information, let me ask you this:
What was done? How was it left? What are the current conditions?

A true asbestos rated HEPA vac will cost you about $800.00 dollars. Obviously this doesn't appear to be an option. Give us an idea of what your problem is. We will help you sort it out, short of giving you advice on how to get your butt in trouble or helping you come down with asbestosis.
(licensed for 12 years)


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## runfrombears (Jun 28, 2009)

There was some fireboard we didn't know it was asbestos until after removal as well as 12% popcorn ceiling. Everythings cleaned out. We aren't living in the home until situation is resolved, and no this is not a flip. Do you know if an air filter in the home would make a difference? I was reading about IQ air its Hyper HEPA which is 99% at .001 microns! Obviously its very expensive though.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Popcorn texture is notorious for being an ACM. Fireboard can mean a lot of things. Many board type products are non-friable, meaning that they are not easily reduced to powder by hand pressure. Being non-friable, they don't pose much health risk unless broken or sanded, which could release airborne fibers. In order to be effective, an air cleaner would need to filter ALL of the air in a space within a reasonable amount of time. That is not likely to happen. Those types of systems are fairly effective on dust, pollen or mold spores, but are not likely to trap everything effectively. Additionally, in order to be HEPA rated they would need to meet an efficiency standard of 99.97%. That is a set standard. Period. This means that for every 10,000 air borne particles 0.3 microns or larger, a HEPA filter will only allow 3 of them to pass through. And that is ONLY for the filter. A poorly constructed housing may allow an untold number of particles in all sizes to pass through. If you have had a contamination, then the house needs to be THOROUGHLY cleaned by someone with a true HEPA vac, rated for asbestos. Homeowner vacs with HEPA filters won't cut it.. The filters will meet the HEPA standard (at least when new), but the fine print will tell you that the vac is not constructed to HEPA standards................. only the filter. Then it needs to be certified by someone taking clearance air samples which need to be lab analyzed both for quantity of fibers and type of fibers.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

*THIS IS RIDICULOUS!*​ 
Call a professional asbestos abatement company and get an inspection. That will answer all of your questions and your money will be well spent. It will be a lot less expensive than buying a special vacuum cleaner that you will use only one time. This isn't making any sense.
To continue to hash this out here at this point is totally counterproductive. I'm beginning to believe this whole story is contrived merely for your own entertainment.

If you were so concerned about the health of you and your family you would be doing something positive about it by now.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Curiously no follow up with airborne testing numbers was ever posted...


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Probably was none. Some people come here looking for validation to do something the wrong way. When they don't get it, they move into the twilight zone and are never heard from again.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

If a contractor made this mess, just report him to the local EPA. Call OSHA too, just for the giggle factor. It'll be cleaned up, on his dime, in short order. I bet he won't be laughing either.

You did post this as if the work was hired out.


"Not once but twice now. Remodel going on and well i'm not even going to go into how it happened. But it did. So does anyone have any recommendations for vacuuming the dust up and making it safe to live in the house again?"

"Is it normal for contractors to totally laugh about this stuff?"


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Didn't sound like there was much in the way of permits on this project in the first place. I'm guessing he wants to keep it on the down low to save his own butt.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

runfrombears said:


> I told you the options if you want to ignore my question go ahead. The pros aren't coming in, except to do an air test after i've vacuumed everything up.
> 
> I've talked to abatement contractors and they say a hepa vacuum is fine, so whos word should I take?


Do you realize what you're doing is ILLEGAL? If somebody drops a dime on OSHA or the EPA, you could go to prison or, at the minimum, face hefty fines and remediation expenses.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

You guys do realize this post is from 3 years ago. I know it does not absolve the OP but I would bet he is not even watching this any more


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

danpik said:


> You guys do realize this post is from 3 years ago. I know it does not absolve the OP but I would bet he is not even watching this any more


He's probably dead from asbestosis.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Doh!!!!


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## stoner529 (Nov 12, 2010)

Im curious as to how it really happened. If he had a contractor i would think law suits would be in order, but you arent going to accomplish much from that. The fact that he had no money was already a problem. If he was on lots of forums, everyone of them mentions the dangers of asbestos. half of them say its no big deal and just keep it wet. the others take it seriously so who do you really believe? 

Its interesting to say the least.....


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

The problem with a botched asbestos removal is that the stuff keeps getting reintroduced to the airstream where it stands an increasing chance of being inhaled. A slight exposure may never cause you a problem. Kepp repeating the exposure and the odds keep changing. Most of those that say it isn't a big deal are not people who have been certified to do abatement and understand what happens to the asbestos, how it acts, how it travels and what it can or can't do. Keeping it wet is only a portion of the process.


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