# Help on installing a 220v outlet



## jproffer (Mar 12, 2005)

Wire guage depends on amperage. Look at the instructions or the info. plate on the tool. Did the instructions say that the tool wasn't "220/110 mixed"? How do you know that? If that is the case, and if the rated amperage is less than 30, you can use 10-2 NM.

Find out all the info needed (amperage...is the tool really "clean" 220 - no 110 needed) and post back.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

That does not look like a fuse panel to me. It's a breaker panel. 
Just note the panel manufacturer name and go across the street and get a two pole breaker rated at the amps of the tool nameplate. 
Purchase the correct size wire as per the amps, located on the tool nameplate. 

Do not count on the salesperson at HD to give you the correct information everytime. EVER! Some are quite good, but that would be an exception.

Is the existing 120 volt recept box fed with conduit or cable? If it's conduit you will be able to pull the new wires (if existing are to small)) into the same conduit. Unless your tool current dictates bigger wire than allowed in the conduit and box.*

Check all this out, and if you need more assistance let us know.
This is a simple project. But do it right.


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

One tool I'll be using is just 220V only, it's a dust collector.
Motor: 2HP, 220V 60Hz 
The tool store said it's 220v 9a so a 15 amp breaker should be ok.

Another tool I might get you can either buy the 110v version or the 230 volt version:
Amps 15 / 7.5
Volts 115 / 230
Hertz 60


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## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

Bob,
I'm not a pro electrician, so wait for their confirmation, but I think that you can go with a 30 amp double breaker with 10/2-with-ground wiring to do what you want to do. 
There is no neutral with 220v, so you will need to connect both the black and white wires to the breaker (mark the end of the white wire with black tape on both ends) and conenct the bare gound wire to the ground buss in the panel (see where all the other bare wires are connected).
This is very easy and you can DIY. First, of course, you have to turn OFF the main breaker, but be aware that the two 120v legs above the main breaker are still HOT and will kill you if you touch them. 
In fact, you need an electrical tester to test the panel after you turn it off to make sure that the main breaker in fact turned it off. 
Good Luck!
Mike


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

With your help and the walkthrough I found online (normal circuit breaker only though) I think I can try it. I'll use my volt meter to make sure there's no current.

What should I be getting to install the xx/2 220v circuit breaker if I'm just using a dust collector, table saw or both at once?:
pair of 15a or
pair of 20a, 30a?

I'm guessing a double 15a but I'm not sure by having them clipped together they would add together to make 30 or if one of the leads gets >15a it would trip them both off.
If it trips at 15amps and my dust collector is only 9a is that risky for my machine?

Lastly, is there anything wrong with going with a thicker gauge wire than what is required? What if I went with 10 gauge for my double 15a circuit?


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## Andy in ATL (Aug 28, 2007)

Definitely use 10 awg so when you find that you need a bigger breaker you will be ok up to 30A.


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## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

Bob, 
As far as I'm concerned, there no such thing as "too large wire" on a circuit...it just may be a little more expensive initially. When I built my home back in 1977, I did not use anything smaller than 12g anywhere in the house, although I knew that 14g would have been just fine on many of the 15 amp lighting circuits. All of my receptacle circuits are 20 amp. 
I'm still with the double 30 amp breaker (NOT two 15 amp single pole breakers) with 10g/wg for what you want to do. 
Listen to the great pros here for their opinions (not just me, because I'm not one.) 
Mike


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

Would bad things happen running a single outlet for 15 feet direct from the breaker with a pair of 15a breakers using 14 gauge wire? The rest of my house uses 14 gauge wire. 
The 220v outlets I saw at home depot all were rated 15a only. Nothing higher for those. Would using anything better than 14 gauge help since the outlet connection would bottleneck the run? The dust collector is 9a and since it's a single outlet nothing more would be used at the same time.


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## Andy in ATL (Aug 28, 2007)

Simply put, no, bad things wouldn't happen. I would encourage not to use a pair of fifteen amp breakers with a handle tie, but instead use a double pole fifteen amp breaker. At the distance you are running 14 AWG would be fine.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

You can use a double pole breaker with common trip as Andy has stated for single phase multiwire line to line 240 volt loads so as to disconnect both ungrounded conductors.....NEC 240.20(B)(2). This is a code requirement not a choice. A double pole breaker isn't very expensive. This requirement pretty much eliminates you from an incorrect installation like having the breakers configured such that you cannot handle tie them.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Bob, if you can't find a 220 volt receptacle at 30 amps it is because they are usually rated 250 volts at 30 amp.
Google (search web) "Nema Standard Plugs and receptacles" you will find a chart that shows you the receptacles, their configuration, style, voltage and current.

Use a two pole breaker, not two 30 amp single poles tied together. Does that make sense to you?

As a DIY'er I recommend that you always go up on size not down on electrical distribution installations. 

I agree with the above statements regarding using 30 amp #10 AWG wire. 
You can also tap the circuit in the box and add your 120 volt outlet if you need one. But, you need 4 wires for this.
2 - hots #10
1 - neutral #10
1 - ground #12 green in color or bare cooper conductor. Example: 10/3 with ground.

Simply splice one hot, use the neutral and connect all grounds for 120 volt.
Just remember if the breaker is 30 amp you CANNOT use wire smaller than #10. You might want to look at splicing options. The best connection possible. 

Stubbie, Can you show him the picture of the splice you presented in a recent forum? Insulated compression type.


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

The breaker I got was 15 amp 2 pole, not the ones with the clip or metal joiner piece.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Sorry, I'm not following what is going on here. So I need everyone to clear me up.....

1.) Where are we getting this 30 amp branch circuit from?

2.) What are the electrical requirements for the table saw?

3.) How do we know we need line to line and line to neutral loads on the same branch circuit?

4.) If we do need #3 and a 30 amp double pole breaker how we gonna connect a cord and plug table saw (that we know nothing about) to a 30 amp rated branch circuit and how we gonna connect a 9 amp 230 volt cord and plug dust collector to a 30 amp branch circuit? 

5.) Where are we getting 30 amp receptacles from?

This is what I know....We have a table saw of unknown electrical requirements, we have a 9 amp 230 volt cord and plug dust collector. He wants to use the remaining 2 spaces in his main panel to get a 230 volt circuit to his dust collector. So I ask again where we getting this... just put in 10 awg so you have 30 amp capability? I am assuming this is coming from the combined possible load requirements of the table saw and dust collector and assuming they are on the same branch circuit. Take into consideration that these tools are not going to have 30 amp plugs. It would appear the DC has a 15 amp plug and we don't know about the saw. Look at table 210.24 and tell me if you see any problem in doing this? Specifically the required receptacle rating for 30 amps.

Stubbie


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

The table saw is 230v 7.5 amps or possibly 230v 12 amps depending on which I get. I only got a single outlet plug so only one would run at the same time.
I ended up running 14 gauge wire to a bi pole 15 amp breaker, no neutral with ground since I'll never use it for anything else. It's 15 feet of cable to the panel.
I was asking at the store if I wanted to run both appliances at once and getting a dual outlet but I didn't know you would add the amp of appliances together. 
1) For the single outlet to run the 9amp dust collector OR the 7.5 or 12 amp table saw can you tell me if what I did was ok?

2) If I wanted to go back and put in a dual outlet to run both machines at the same time could you tell me (new question for the thread) what I'd need to do to safely handle the 2x 230 machines together? 10 gauge wire + 30 amp breaker maybe? Or two different cable runs to different breakers?


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## arichard21 (Oct 17, 2007)

BobRankin said:


> The table saw is 230v 7.5 amps or possibly 230v 12 amps depending on which I get. I only got a single outlet plug so only one would run at the same time.
> I ended up running 14 gauge wire to a bi pole 15 amp breaker, no neutral with ground since I'll never use it for anything else. It's 15 feet of cable to the panel.
> I was asking at the store if I wanted to run both appliances at once and getting a dual outlet but I didn't know you would add the amp of appliances together.
> 1) For the single outlet to run the 9amp dust collector OR the 7.5 or 12 amp table saw can you tell me if what I did was ok?
> ...


 
bob, how can you be sure that they will never be run at the same time? 21 amps surely would be trouble for a 15A cct.

if you wanted the capability to run both, i would suggest putting them on seperate ccts. where you have these, is it a workshop? you may want to consider runniug a sub panel out there. it would make wiring up new devices a bit easier in the future.


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm an amateur electrician, but a professional furnituremaker, so my advice on the machinery may be more useful than the wiring. But I'll offer both anyways. 

In my mind, a dust collector should be wired so that it can be run in combination with any other machine in the shop. The tablesaw is the biggest producer of airborne dust in the workshop, so you definitely want to be able to run the dust collector at the same time as the TS. So, either put it on it's own circuit, or put it on a circuit that can have everything on, and not trip the breaker. The original poster doesn't know much about wiring, and is looking for the simplest way to do this, but he appears to only have 2 spaces free in his panel. So he can't run two 15A 220V cirucuits. Why not just install a 20A 2-pole breaker, and run 12-2 NM-B to two single 20A receptacles in the garage? All the necessary components are available at home depot, and it'll be a much easier solution for someone new to wiring. 

The 7.5A tablesaw is probably a 1.5 hp saw, right? Unless you want to get into more wiring, just stick with that one (it's got plenty of power), and in combination with the 9A dust collector you won't overload the 20A circuit. 

If you plan to add more machinery or power loads in your workshop (or if you're set on getting the 3hp tablesaw), then you'll need to have a sub panel installed. I'd recommend you do that if you plan to expand the shop at all in the future, but you'll probably need to hire an electrician for that, unless you have a handy friend who can show you what you need to do.


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks for the info so far guys.

They wont be run at the same time because I already bought a single 220v outlet, there's no plug for a 2nd device.

I run a 110v tablesaw now so I can run the 220v dust collector on it's own outlet/breaker and the tablesaw and other equipmenton on their own existing 110v plugs.

I probably will only be living in that house (the 1 car garage is my play area now) for another year so I likely wont be buying a new 220v table saw until the next house. If plans change and I do splurge for another 220v device I'd have to rewire to have a dual 220v outlet plug and in that case swap out the 15 amp breaker I already installed on 15 ft 14 gauge wire (hope it works). 

What would I need to run two devices off the same dual outlet scenerios:
9amp + 7.5 amp= 16.5 amp. 12 gauge + 20 bipole breaker should do?
9amp + 12 amp= 21 amp. 10 gauge + 30 bipole breaker should do?


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

BobRankin said:


> Thanks for the info so far guys.
> 
> They wont be run at the same time because I already bought a single 220v outlet, there's no plug for a 2nd device.
> 
> ...


That's correct, as far as I understand. Adding a second box with another 220V receptacle is about a 10 minute job, so that shouldn't slow you down. But in that case you'd have to upgrade to 12-2 wire and a 20A 2-pole breaker.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Bob

If your just going to use the tools as a hobby & are not really looking at a branch circuit where you are wanting to serving motors then what you have done to this point is fine. Your double pole 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp per leg breaker it is not a 30 amp breaker. It should look like the one in the upper left of your panel. BTW that siemens breaker appears to be a "classified" breaker not necessarily intended to be used as a listed breaker for that panel.

Once you start designing branch circuits to serve multiple motors and not as general purpose branch circuits it is prudent to follow the motor branch circuit rules of Article 430. This is a whole different way of looking at things than a branch circuit designed to plug a power tool into on an individual basis... much like you would a vacuum sweeper in a branch circuit.

My advice for your future needs is to supply your table saw its own branch circuit and your dust collector its own branch circuit since these are cord and plug tools and not hardwired tools. The manufacturer most likely specifies that in the tools manual of installation. A sub-panel is a great way to keep all these circuits to a woodshop organized. This is what I'd do in your situation now but you are leaving in year or so I think what you have done is fine.

Stubbie


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

Slightly off topic, Can a person use thicker gauge wire for any type of amperage or circuit?
Could I have used 10 gauge wire with my current 15 amp breaker if I happen to have it kicking around in case I decide to upgrade to a larger amperage later?
Do you need some sort of minumum current lever to support the thick wire?


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Yes, can run a heavier gauge wire and put it on a smaller breaker (10 gauge on 15 amp). The thicker wire is much harder to work with. You must never mix wire sizes on any circuit. For instance if you powered your saw with 10 gauge, then down the road wanted to tap into this for another power source, you will have to continue with the 10 gauge.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

There is never a good reason to run heavier wire than required for cord and plug tools. The power cord and cap/plug determines the branch circuit size it can utilize. In most cases for the typical DIYer power tool that is a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit whether 240 volts or 120 volts. If these branch circuit ratings are the same voltage then 15 amp plugs can be used on the 20 amp branch circuit. If you run 30 amp rated 10 gauge branch circuits (using a 30 amp breaker) your receptacle rating must be equal to the branch circuit rating...so your plugs will not allow you to utilize these circuits. The point here is that the NEC will not allow 30 amp breakers with 15 or 20 amp receptacles. The ocpd determines the branch circuit rating. Reasoning is that if you install duplex receptacles and have 30 amps available you could easily exceed the receptacle rating if it is 15 amps or 20 amps on a 30 amp breaker.
If you take Bobs third example of a 12 amp table saw and 9 amp dust collector and for simplicity consider the load at 21 amps, this would require a 30 amp or 25 amp branch circuit but you will need to use 20 amp receptacles or 15 amp receptacles to utilize the power cords and plugs. You are not allowed to do this so the branch circuit is not compatible with the tools. Unless the tool or appliance utilizes 30 amp power cord and plug the 30 amp circuit is unusable for 15 or 20 amp power tool cords. So for example if we run a 30 amp branch circuit to serve Bob's tools and plug them into a 15 amp duplex receptacle that will accomodate his tool power cords we now have 21 amps being drawn thru a 15 amp rated receptacle while the tools are operating similtaneously. The breaker and wire is rated for the load but the 15 receptacle is not nor would a 20 amp receptacle. And in fact a 15 amp duplex receptacle should not have more than 12 amps of cord and plug connected load.... NEC 210.21(B)(2). So looking at a 12 amp table saw you can see it is right on the line if it is plugged into a 15 amp duplex. This is why you generally see that these tools are spec'd by the manufacturer to use 15 or 20 amp branch circuits.


Stubbie


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## Andy in ATL (Aug 28, 2007)

Yea...What Stubbie said... :thumbup:


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## BobRankin (Oct 20, 2007)

I noticed that home depot only osld 2 different 220v recepicles, a single 15a and a duplex 15a. I asked the guy if the 15a recepticle would bottleneck the 20 or 30 amp breaker or the (thicker than) 14 gauge wire. He said that was a good question.

I said I wanted to power a 12a saw with a 9a dust collector at the same time = 21a and the recepicles only gave 15a. I asked why they didnt' have 20 or 30a duplex recepicles. 

He said in that case I'd have to have two different 15a singe recepticles with 2 different cables going to 2 different 15a breakers, or run the different cables and breakers to a singel duplex recepticle with the seperator tabs cut.


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