# Auto innovation phobia



## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Hmm.

You drive and operate your car with your mind, and fix (or try to fix it) it with your mind, too. Maybe the mind goes off the rails once in a while?

Way back when the U.S. auto industry came under intense pressure to increase gas mileage, they did various innovations that caused problems.

For example, in the 1977 Olds Toronado, they had this onboard computer that didn't want to work after a while, which got changed out for a normal High Energy Ignition.

Then, there was the infamous variable venturi carb. Still wake up screaming in the night. (Well, exaggerating a little.)

Things like that made me skittish about some of the nice modern cars that have been made recently. My old cars mostly have "The Infamous" in front of their names. The new ones, not so much.

Anyone else have experiences?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Almost on topic, modern innovations. Yahoo had a headline where someone caught a video of a Telsa cruising along on an interstate while the driver was sleeping. I don't think I'm ready to share the highways with this new technology.

Bud


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## spaz (Mar 7, 2019)

One of my favorites is VW getting caught lying on their diesel statistics and emission numbers....


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I remember when points was replaced by High Energy Ignition= HEI. I had fellows coming in and wanting it removed and put points distributor back in. EGR were removed and blocked off. Oh man, when the serpentine belt came out. I had many an old guy come in and make me replace the serpentine belt with the old v-belt system. "I don't want just 1 belt running everything. If it beaks, I'm screwed." I would tell them that this 1 belt will go 40,000 to 50,000 miles. HOGWASH sonny! You don't know ****. Unleaded gas filler window in your filler neck was punched out to accept the leaded gas nozzle. The catalytic converters were emptied, that still happens. Then when GM interchanged engines, ie, and Olds engine in a caddy. When I told that guy you have a olds 350 in your New Cadillac instead of a Caddy engine, he lost it and went straight to the caddy dealer to complain. I seen a Cadillac Cimarron with a Chevy Citation grill behind it. They didn't remove the grill before installing the Caddy stuff. I kid you not. And forget the 80 1/2 CCC systems that came out. CCC = Computer Command Control, GM. The mechanics that I worked around were baffled and scared of it. They didn't know what they were gonna do. I decided if I go to school on this, I will be on top of this crap and they won't. Auto innovation phobia.:vs_cool:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I don't know why we need a car to drive us.
People never break the rules of the road 

People never drive drunk or high
People never take unnecessary risks
People never fall asleep at the wheel
People never mix up which peddle they are pushing to the floor
People never have fender benders
People never die in accidents


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Oh, the Variable Venturi carb! And the computer. And a very _very_ short love affair with a 1980 Lincoln Town Car.

This was in 1987. I just got me a nice 1980 Lincoln town car, two-tone, nice stereo, ran great, whoo-ee. 

Then, it didn't want to run right, and none of the mechanics I took it to had a clue. And no, I wasn't going to go to a Ford Dealer. The rules of this Board say no ranting, so I'll not rant, you can guess the reason. 

It also had a variable venturi carb, which made mechanics very skittish. The more reading I did, the more worried I became. Finally, I took the thing to the same garage the cops went for their cars and the guy said, oh, yeah, it's just the oxygen sensor, and fixed it. Boom, ran great.

The whole ordeal made me very nervous, though, and I decided that I'd quit while I was ahead and sell the car for what I paid for it, which I was able to do, very handily, to a recent divorcee' who was thrilled to have a nice car again, and who drove it about 20 miles a week. Probably still has it, and if she does, bless her heart. 

I still had Jimi Hendrix, my reliable, experienced 1979 Olds 98 Regency 4-door, which I'd eventually run for about 550,000 miles before I got rid of it in 1996 or '97. It had the rock-reliable 403 engine in it, my brother tells me it's the Son of Diesel. 

I remember all the "retrofit" kits they used to sell in Ohio to supposedly allow you to get rid of the cursed VV carb. Anyone know if those worked?


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Brainbucket said:


> I remember when points was replaced by High Energy Ignition= HEI. I had fellows coming in and wanting it removed and put points distributor back in. EGR were removed and blocked off. Oh man, when the serpentine belt came out. I had many an old guy come in and make me replace the serpentine belt with the old v-belt system. "I don't want just 1 belt running everything. If it beaks, I'm screwed." I would tell them that this 1 belt will go 40,000 to 50,000 miles. HOGWASH sonny! You don't know ****. Unleaded gas filler window in your filler neck was punched out to accept the leaded gas nozzle. The catalytic converters were emptied, that still happens. Then when GM interchanged engines, ie, and Olds engine in a caddy. When I told that guy you have a olds 350 in your New Cadillac instead of a Caddy engine, he lost it and went straight to the caddy dealer to complain. I seen a Cadillac Cimarron with a Chevy Citation grill behind it. They didn't remove the grill before installing the Caddy stuff. I kid you not. And forget the 80 1/2 CCC systems that came out. CCC = Computer Command Control, GM. The mechanics that I worked around were baffled and scared of it. They didn't know what they were gonna do. I decided if I go to school on this, I will be on top of this crap and they won't. Auto innovation phobia.:vs_cool:



Harley Davidson had the same issue when they first came out with a belt final drive; people didn't think it would last. I'm sure it's happened but I don't know anyone, or anyone the knows somebody, who has had a belt fail.


An m/c site I wander through occasionally has several threads on how to remove the ABS module 'cause no goovernant is gonna tell me how to ride' (apparently pulling the fuse isn't good enough for them). I've had to stomp on mine a couple of times and am glad it was there.


Most late model bikes you see/hear with aftermarket pipes have pulled the catalytic converter.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> I don't know why we need a car to drive us.
> People never break the rules of the road
> 
> People never drive drunk or high
> ...


No, never not ever! :devil3:


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Brainbucket said:


> I remember when points was replaced by High Energy Ignition= HEI. I had fellows coming in and wanting it removed and put points distributor back in. EGR were removed and blocked off. Oh man, when the serpentine belt came out. I had many an old guy come in and make me replace the serpentine belt with the old v-belt system. "I don't want just 1 belt running everything. If it beaks, I'm screwed." I would tell them that this 1 belt will go 40,000 to 50,000 miles. HOGWASH sonny! You don't know ****. Unleaded gas filler window in your filler neck was punched out to accept the leaded gas nozzle. The catalytic converters were emptied, that still happens. Then when GM interchanged engines, ie, and Olds engine in a caddy. When I told that guy you have a olds 350 in your New Cadillac instead of a Caddy engine, he lost it and went straight to the caddy dealer to complain. I seen a Cadillac Cimarron with a Chevy Citation grill behind it. They didn't remove the grill before installing the Caddy stuff. I kid you not. And forget the 80 1/2 CCC systems that came out. CCC = Computer Command Control, GM. The mechanics that I worked around were baffled and scared of it. They didn't know what they were gonna do. I decided if I go to school on this, I will be on top of this crap and they won't. Auto innovation phobia.:vs_cool:


Whatever failings the Olds engines had, they didn't blow like the old Chevies did. I never had one go on me, out of about 10 cars. The first Chevy I got, a C-20 pickup (Sophia Loren) and the engine blew and I had to replace it. Fun like herpes.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Looking at the big picture, I don't think that it's fair to compare automobile technology of the 70's to anything before or after. Look at the production vehicles coming out of U.S. plants through about 1970. Road Runners and Chargers, Cuda's and Challengers, Chevelle's, Camaro's, 442's, Mustangs, and even AMC was in play with the AMX. Those were just the street screamers with their 300+ horse engines. And it was not uncommon for the family vehicles that went back and forth to work or the grocery store to have near the same output. Even pickups and vans had more than enough muscle available. Meanwhile, power steering and brakes found their way into an increasing number of vehicles, turn signals, windshield wipers and things like that had become standard equipment, no longer accessories. FM radios became a fairly popular option, as did cigarette lighters and whatnot. Engines and transmissions were overall definitely better by 1970 than they had been a decade earlier. Then came what? Yup, gas rationing and smog concerns. So what happened? The gubiment, in my opinion, placed way too many demands on vehicle manufacturer's to increase mileage and reduce emissions, with way too little time to meet them. Consequently, seemingly overnight, a 454 Corvette that had been pushing out somewhere around 400 hp was now in the 200 hp range. Within almost no time at all, the 442's, Road Runners, Chevelles, etc. disappeared. Some, like the Mustang, made a truly embarrassing return as a Mustang II before vanishing into the darkness until it was revived years later as an evolution of the original 'stang. Air pumps. "lean burn" computers, and all sorts of other quick fixes were rushed into production with the hope that the engineering department would fart a diamond. The hidden gems never appeared, at least not as an overnight savior to the automobile business, but, over time, advances were made. In a way it was probably an advantage to the industry because it did force them to begin looking at their balance sheets more closely, which very likely helped them stay competitive in the global market we have today, but it sure was frustrating and expensive for the rest of us to operate a vehicle in those days.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

DexterII said:


> Looking at the big picture, I don't think that it's fair to compare automobile technology of the 70's to anything before or after. Look at the production vehicles coming out of U.S. plants through about 1970. Road Runners and Chargers, Cuda's and Challengers, Chevelle's, Camaro's, 442's, Mustangs, and even AMC was in play with the AMX. Those were just the street screamers with their 300+ horse engines. And it was not uncommon for the family vehicles that went back and forth to work or the grocery store to have near the same output. Even pickups and vans had more than enough muscle available. Meanwhile, power steering and brakes found their way into an increasing number of vehicles, turn signals, windshield wipers and things like that had become standard equipment, no longer accessories. FM radios became a fairly popular option, as did cigarette lighters and whatnot. Engines and transmissions were overall definitely better by 1970 than they had been a decade earlier. Then came what? Yup, gas rationing and smog concerns. So what happened? The gubiment, in my opinion, placed way too many demands on vehicle manufacturer's to increase mileage and reduce emissions, with way too little time to meet them. Consequently, seemingly overnight, a 454 Corvette that had been pushing out somewhere around 400 hp was now in the 200 hp range. Within almost no time at all, the 442's, Road Runners, Chevelles, etc. disappeared. Some, like the Mustang, made a truly embarrassing return as a Mustang II before vanishing into the darkness until it was revived years later as an evolution of the original 'stang. Air pumps. "lean burn" computers, and all sorts of other quick fixes were rushed into production with the hope that the engineering department would fart a diamond. The hidden gems never appeared, at least not as an overnight savior to the automobile business, but, over time, advances were made. In a way it was probably an advantage to the industry because it did force them to begin looking at their balance sheets more closely, which very likely helped them stay competitive in the global market we have today, but it sure was frustrating and expensive for the rest of us to operate a vehicle in those days.


I remember the gas rationing like it was yesterday, and I also remember how the imported cars were able to meet both smog and gas mileage rules, no problem.

Of course, I still liked my 'Murkin cars. Pedal to the metal in the Lincoln vs. that putt-putt-putt of an old Honda Civic. 

I'm the first to admit that I was a vile gas wastrel till relatively recently. California had a rule that if you had a car that was old enough, you didn't have to smog it, so I got old cars. Eventually, that rule ended and I got tired of fixing my own. Meantime, had a great run with Sophia Loren, geared down low, who cared about 5 MPG when hauling stone, as I did for a bit? (When gas it $5 a gallon, I cared.)

So, now I have a Lexus, a Toyota wagon and a 1994 Chevy S10 Pickup.

The really grand question is what will happen when the oil gets too scarce to simply burn it?


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I like my 2015 Silverado. It is comfortable, has very good power for a V6 engine and gets pretty good mileage. 

However I would be lying if I said I did not worry about maintenance. I know that there are over 50 electronic control units in that truck which makes DIY maintenance problematic. I have now added an OBD II reader to my took kit.

I have to say, I sometimes miss my 69 VW bug. Clutch cable broke, drove home in 1st and 2nd gear. Installed a new cable in about 2 hours. Another time the fan belt broke late one night driving my date home. Tied her stockings around the pulleys and with some nursing of the engine got her and myself home. Almost all repairs could be done with a basic set of tools. Try doing that on a modern vehicle.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Drachenfire said:


> I like my 2015 Silverado. It is comfortable, has very good power for a V6 engine and gets pretty good mileage.
> 
> However I would be lying if I said I did not worry about maintenance. I know that there are over 50 electronic control units in that truck which makes DIY maintenance problematic. I have now added an OBD II reader to my took kit.
> 
> I have to say, I sometimes miss my 69 VW bug. Clutch cable broke, drove home in 1st and 2nd gear. Installed a new cable in about 2 hours. Another time the fan belt broke late one night driving my date home. Tied her stockings around the pulleys and with some nursing of the engine got her and myself home. Almost all repairs could be done with a basic set of tools. Try doing that on a modern vehicle.


I'd be scared to drive or ride in an old VW bug, with all those Escalades racing all over the place, piloted by people of limited piloting skills . . . :vs_whistle:


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

DoomsDave said:


> I'd be scared to drive or ride in an old VW bug, with all those Escalades racing all over the place, piloted by people of limited piloting skills . . . :vs_whistle:


They were pretty robust little cars which.

We had a '70 growing up. One evening my mom was driving our aunt home and had my two sisters with her. 

A woman in an AMC Javelin ran a stop sign and broadsided them right at the driver's side door. My mom had bruised ribs and everyone else was pretty shook up but okay. They were still taken to the hospital to be checked out.

In addition to the damages driver's side, the back seat had buckled upward and the driver's side rear window fell out intact.

Later that evening, one of my uncles drove my dad to the site with the intent of towing the car home. They found that it was just a solenoid wire preventing the car from starting. They re-plugged it and my dad drove the car home himself.

After fixing the car we continued to drive it until we sold it in '83 and it was still running fine.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Yeah I know, older thread but it is new to me. lol

I dearly loved and still love the VW bugs of the 60s, I really don't know how many I had. Most I converted into a Baja with mudders on back. It is amazing how strong those little cars were. I have pulled several cars and full size pickups out of mud holes with one. That little car would go anywhere a 4X4 could go, and did. lol

I made a truck out of one VW bug, had 13 people inside and on back heading to the lake fishing when living out in the sticks.

I had a bunch of old muscle cars, man what I would give to have them now, I would be rich. Just one of my old cars I saw online is selling for $60,000.

My favorite engines was the 327 and 427 chevy, they were some mean engines. Drop a #1 vet grind cam in a stock 327 with the big valves and you got 300 horses, loved them engines. I still think the 427 would walk all over a 454.

I had some mean Mopar hemis also, 426, now that was a really mean engine, 470 mules stock, my stars it was so much fun. The way they get the unheard of horse power out of engines these days is unreal. Nowhere like the old 60s engines, these new engines are some kinda really bad. 

Hmmm looks like I got a little off track here. lol


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@BigJim, I'm surprised you missed this one!

I never had a Hell Bug, but many people I know did, and I remember a dude who took his through the desert in Mexico (where they laid old Pancho low) THEN took it to Afghanistan in 1977, not long before the Soviet invasion. Performed like a camel, in a good way.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

My 2000 Navigator is the most modern vehicle I have ever owned. I am not phobic about new cars; they just cost too much money. If I have to get another one, it will be a $2K beater.


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