# architectural shingles versus metal



## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

metal is always longer term than asphalt. As far as those particular products I am not familiar with them so can't really comment on the specifics.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

If you are comparing high quality asphalt to high quality metal, metal wins every time.

The differences become even more significant depending on your climate region.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Add another,,,I recommend metal over asphalt too.

With you living in Florida the concern would be corrosion.The extremely hot and humid temps would be another.And hail.But the materials sold in your region are for your region.I would choose metal.

Make sure you check with your insurance carrier about a cosmetic clause concerning your metal roof system.With you living in the hail capital of the U.S the extra cost IMO will be worth it.

The cosmetic issue pertains to the visual aesthetics of your metal.People find out the hard way that even though your $20,000.00 or more metal roof is beat up from baseball size hail or any other size that creates impact strikes on the panels as long as its not leaking in the insurers eyes your roof is still functioning.So you have a beat up roof that looks like pooh but does not leak.And your stuck with it until another force of nature removes it for you.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

What is the point of installing metal over asphalt besides the look?

What benefits does metal have over asphalt?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> What is the point of installing metal over asphalt besides the look?
> 
> What benefits does metal have over asphalt?


By "over" I am going to assume that you mean as it applies to the comparison.

The scale of the benefit will depend in large part on the geographic location of the structure and the construction type.

In general, metal is going to well outlast its shingle counter parts. The rainwater from the metal roof does not contain any VOCs and is therefore safe for rainwater collection and redistribution systems.

Metal roofs are going to have better resistant to impact and penetration, however, they will show damage. Vertically raised standing seam will certainly show damage but some of the panel systems will do a great job of hiding any hail impact damage.

Metal roofs will also have the benefit of much higher solar reflectivity and emissivity rates, thus allowing them to be cool roofs. 

Metal roofs will also have much better wind ratings than asphalt roofs too.

Metal roofs will not be as receptive to biological growth like asphalt roofs are.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Windowsonwash - that I understand but what benefits does it actually have for the homeowner?

It costs more and has the same warranties. It's louder inside the home during a rain storm. If it gets damaged, insurance pays to replace either one.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> Windowsonwash - that I understand but what benefits does it actually have for the homeowner?
> 
> It costs more and has the same warranties. It's louder inside the home during a rain storm. If it gets damaged, insurance pays to replace either one.


The benefits for the homeowner is that it much more closely resembles the roof that was installed originally (as compared to the black streaked roof in asphalt).

The second benefit would be the lack of the replacement cost. Regardless of the proposed "lifetime" warranties on shingles, I have yet to see one last 30 years and the consumable aspects of shingles (i.e. granules and bitumen sealant along the back) are largely unchanged over the years. Just adding more weight to the shingle and having that be the technology improvement to maintain a shingles resistance to wind lift is not my idea of a solution. Most wind warranties are usually 15 years if I recall properly. 

The benefit in this case would be longevity. A properly installed steel roof of some quality will maintain its wind lift resistance and will not degrade overtime. It will also afford the homeowner a better warranty against wind lift over that lifetime with most metal roofs having sustained vs. instantaneous gust wind warranties.

Given the historical observations that the cost of an asphalt roof roughly doubles every 10 years, that replacement cost on that roof in 20-30 years (if the homeowner lives there that long) is going to be steep. Even when clients tell me they won't be there that long, there are valuation improvements that can be accounted for with the more premium roof and can translate into improvements in property values.

Most home inspectors also tell clients that they should depreciate the value of the roof if it is over 15 years, regardless of warranty provided by the manufacturer (right, wrong, or indifferent). This results in a lower offer

The higher SR and TE numbers associated with metal can translate to huge reductions in cooling costs in the warmer climates. Many homes have 2 zone systems that live in the attic. A home with a metal roof, regardless of proper ventilation, will be much more hospitable and efficient that one with asphalt.

Metal roofs are not louder during rainstorms in installations that are done over a deck vs. a set of purlins/battens where no roof deck is present. 

The old sound of rain on a tin roof was for scenarios where there was no roof deck and the metal was exposed and viewable from the attic.

True, an insurance company will wind up paying to replace it regardless, however, if the asphalt roof gets damaged during a storm even and becomes compromised, it can let water into the structure and ruin the home. Most metal roofs will have much better storm ratings and will maintain the envelope protection and prevent further damage. Many do not have to be replaced in any capacity after a storm and some are resistant to showing any damage via hail. Once you have hail on an asphalt roof, the granules are cooked and the roof is on the way out most times.

Benefits:
-better warranty (most metal companies have better comprehensive coverages)
-better longevity
-better resale improvement
-more resistant to ice dams
-higher wind lift resistance
-much more efficient (i.e. cool roof)


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Yeah I just don't see the benefit when the manufacturers warranty is covering 50 years of non prorated coverage for materials, labor, tear off & disposal. Then also including 25 years of workmanship coverage backed by the manufacturer seems like a safe bet that if there are any problems, it will be fixed.

Don't you think the 130mph wind warranty on shingles is more than sufficient?

IMO - for most homeowners, the investment for metal isn't really worth it.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> Yeah I just don't see the benefit when the manufacturers warranty is covering 50 years of non prorated coverage for materials, labor, tear off & disposal. Then also including 25 years of workmanship coverage backed by the manufacturer seems like a safe bet that if there are any problems, it will be fixed.


Labor, tear off, and disposal are not covered on wind or algae failures and their warranties are only 15 years at max.



ParagonEx said:


> Don't you think the 130mph wind warranty on shingles is more than sufficient?


In Ohio, probably. Anywhere that is close to the coast or mountains, not even close. That "Lifetime" shingle is only warranted for 15 years on a wind lift too. That is one of my issues with the idea of "Lifetime" shingles. What is the biggest issue that facilitates shingle replacement and re-roofing....missing shingles.

So lets call the roof warranty what it really is...15 years.

Most metal roofs are rated for sustained wind warranty and not the gusts that shingles are.

I don't even live in the mountains but we do have some gusting winds. After a storm last year, 4 homes in my direct vicinity were missing shingles on roofs that are only 5 years old and they are "Lifetime" shingles. Send in your warranty and you wind up getting some replacements and a pat on the back for labor. Now you also have a roof that looks like a quilt.



ParagonEx said:


> IMO - for most homeowners, the investment for metal isn't really worth it.


If you are going to be in the home for 10 years...probably not. That being said, just looking at it from and initial investment standpoint does not take any of the energy savings (can be significant in hotter climates), aesthetics or property valuation improvements into account.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Windows - I don't know what warranties you include but most of mine are CertainTeed 5 Star. This means that blow offs are covered. Also from my understanding it also covers discoloration but not %100 sure about Algae.

Edit - That coverage is for 50 years.

As I said, it's just my belief that for residential homes, standard standing seam metal isn't really necessary or attractive. 

I did learn some more things about metal though. Thanks.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Paragon,

When I am speaking of metal, I am not just referring to vertically raised standing seam. There are a myriad of systems out there that are metal and have a bunch of different looks to them and install in more traditional manner.

I was referring to the standard warranty coverage and not the 5 star warranty. How do you address the 5 star warranty if the customer has old aluminum siding?

As soon a someone can show me a 50 year old asphalt roof, I will believe in that possibility. There are thousands of examples of 100+ year old metal roofs.

Feel free to email or PM me offline about metal. I would be happy to chat with you about the different options.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I will agree with the fact that metal roofs can last longer than asphalt roofs, but look at the warranty. What will a metal roof look like in 50 years? Does the paint on the metal last 50 years? That is what MAY be important to most homeowners.

Even a clay or wood shangle roof may last a lifetime, but does it look good for that long?

An asphalt shingle roof in most areas will look and last better than alternatives with little or no maintenance with a much lesser cost.

Not too many in residential are looking for their "last roof" because it is not reality. Slate is the only material I have seen that lasts almost forever, but may have very expensive repairs along the way.

Cost effective will be asphalt in most areas to the average homeowner.

Asphalt shingles have been made for decades and still will be made for decades because it is an affordable solution for the majority.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

MJW said:


> I will agree with the fact that metal roofs can last longer than asphalt roofs, but look at the warranty. What will a metal roof look like in 50 years? Does the paint on the metal last 50 years? That is what MAY be important to most homeowners.


Weatherization data and fade projections show that many of the paint finishes will last 50 years barring any mechanical damage to the finish. 

The stone coated steel panels are impregnated with ceramic granules that are baked into the base coat paint. They do not change color and therefore maintain their finish quality and coloration.

I have seen roofs that are 35+ years old with this technology and they look about as good as the new roof from a coloration standpoint.



MJW said:


> Even a clay or wood shangle roof may last a lifetime, but does it look good for that long?


Clay tiles should not change appearance with time. They may get some surface drying but by design, they are fundamentally unchanged with age and the color is throughout the tile.

Wood only looks good for about 1 year in most areas.



MJW said:


> An asphalt shingle roof in most areas will look and last better than alternatives with little or no maintenance with a much lesser cost.


Cost, yes. Looks and lifespan, not really. How many shingle blow offs do you see on a daily basis. Metal is more substantial and more proven over its lifespan.



MJW said:


> Not too many in residential are looking for their "last roof" because it is not reality. Slate is the only material I have seen that lasts almost forever, but may have very expensive repairs along the way.
> 
> Cost effective will be asphalt in most areas to the average homeowner.


Is it cost effective when you replace it in 20 years? I would agree that most folks are not thinking of their roof replacement sustainability from a 50 year standpoint, however, (quoting previous customers experience) they are thinking of 20 years. Most have replaced an asphalt roof of a bunch of shingles inside of that 20 years and are tired of servicing and fixing a 20 year old roof that now has no coverage for blow offs or algae formation. Couple that with the fact that there were a myriad of weather events inside of that 20 years that have invalidated the warranty and that paper you have is better suited for blowing your nose on.

I have customer going to a steel shingle for just that reason.

None of what was discussed in your post accounts for the cool roof aspect of metal's performance. Depending on the home and orientation, people with metal roofs can see upwards of a 20% reduction in cooling costs in comparison to an asphalt roof of the same color. That more than makes up for the delta in cost on the metal and makes the metal roof option a no-brainer.




MJW said:


> Asphalt shingles have been made for decades and still will be made for decades because it is an affordable solution for the majority.


I agree 100%. Metal will not replace asphalt in any capacity. I do think that it will gain some market share from asphalt as folks continue to replace 30-year roofs in 20 years.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I don't believe in the cool roof idea. It's a thought up idea from the left and global warming fanatics. It really has no affect on most homes with adequate insulation and ventilation, especially in the north. Heating is a bigger burden than cooling.

There is some radiant heat, but the ventilation should make up for it. 

Some of the newer steel siding has reflective coating to keep it cooler. This is mainly to reduce expansion/contraction and to retain color. How many homes have steel siding over vinyl? Not too many that I see. Everyone knows steel is a better alternative to vinyl. Why????? Cost.

The main reason (besides a much better look) why people choose an arch shingle over a 3 tab is because the price difference is almost zero now.

I don't know many people that really care about something lasting 20 years or a lifetime. Most people only have a vehicle for 3-4 years that they pay upwards of $50K worth. Most only live in their home for 5-8 years, not 20 or a lifetime.

I would say that steel, clay, wood, asphalt, and slate all have their own areas of the country and it isn't going to change very quickly, if at all.

The 'argument' that steel is better than asphalt is an opinion at best. Why would anyone gamble on an opinion and spend 3-4x's the $$$ on that opinion?

In my area in MN, I don't think there is a supplier that even handles steel unless it is special order or pole barn steel. Certain small distributors that do steel roofs only, is the only place that would stock anything.

In 30 years of doing this, we have only had a handful of people asking about steel. Every one of them changes their mind when they find out the cost difference.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

MJW said:


> I don't believe in the cool roof idea. It's a thought up idea from the left and global warming fanatics. It really has no affect on most homes with adequate insulation and ventilation, especially in the north. Heating is a bigger burden than cooling.


Why is cool roofing a global warming fanatic idea? 

I agree that the idea of these "Green" roof (i.e. the roof comprised of organics and other matter that require water, increased structural provisions, and a whole host of other things to keep the water out) are complete BS, but a metal roof with high SR and TE is far, far from one of those type roofs.

We will have to respectfully disagree on the roof type having no affect on most homes. It absolutely will have a dramatic affect on the homes cooling load in a great many situations.

Most shingle cooling is driven by orientation and slope. Lower slope applications do not convection cool very well and can radiate a tremendous amount of heat into the building. This can create issues in insulated roof decks and homes that have duct work and HVAC systems inside the attic. These systems are far more comfortable working in a 100 degree attic as compared to a 130 (and higher) temperature attic. 

Insulation and ventilation are a must in any roof system but if you ask which home will be cooler, assuming they both have similar insulation levels, the home with the lesser attic temperature will be cooler.

We have seen attic temperatures drop 40+ degrees when asphalt was replaced with metal of the same color spectrum. That kind of drop has already netted the customer about a 15% reduction in cooling costs from a month to month comparison.

If you supposedly gain some radiant heat via the thermal mass of shingles and that is free energy, wouldn't the same be true for a cooler attic in the summer? Choosing asphalt for a roof where you are basing that decision on the free energy is fools gold math. Most of those climates that have a larger heating season will also have pretty consistent snow coverage. Snow coverage on the roof eliminates any benefit in passive heat gain from the lower SR and TE asphalt option.

The asphalt roof is also subject to ice dams, regardless of ventilation, whereas the metal option is much more resilient and sometimes completely immune. 

When it comes to heat, the best idea I can think of in a hot climate is to eliminate it from being absorbed as opposed to figuring out how to beat it.



MJW said:


> There is some radiant heat, but the ventilation should make up for it.


Proper ventilation will help exhaust some of that radiant heat but it by no means eliminates it. Asphalt shingles are great big thermal batteries that slowly release their stored energy back into the home over time. This is why you sometimes hear of customers complaining that their attic fan runs well into the middle of the night.

While soffit and ridge venting is great and does help remove the radiant heat, how many times do we see it done both improperly or inadequately? How many times does the layout of the home eliminate its effectiveness or availability? Are we really going to say that an R-38 insulation batt with a vent chute above it is effective at controlling radiant heat? Not a chance and the thermal imaging that we see clearly shows how terrible a job it does do.

Also, if you can tell me of a time where you have been in an attic (well ventilated as you want, during the middle of summer where the sun was high in the sky and the roof was getting the full sun) that the temperature was within 20 degrees of ambient, it will be a first I have heard of it. 



MJW said:


> Some of the newer steel siding has reflective coating to keep it cooler. This is mainly to reduce expansion/contraction and to retain color. How many homes have steel siding over vinyl? Not too many that I see. Everyone knows steel is a better alternative to vinyl. Why????? Cost.


I agree. Steel is more expensive compared to vinyl or asphalt. If crude oil continues to rise and shingles continue to get more expensive, that gap will narrow.

Historically, the cost of an installed asphalt roof seems to double about every 10 years. 



MJW said:


> The main reason (besides a much better look) why people choose an arch shingle over a 3 tab is because the price difference is almost zero now.


I agree. The higher warranties and wind lift resistance are the other reasons that we see. Of course, we are doing as much of the steering towards that as anyone is.



MJW said:


> I don't know many people that really care about something lasting 20 years or a lifetime. Most people only have a vehicle for 3-4 years that they pay upwards of $50K worth. Most only live in their home for 5-8 years, not 20 or a lifetime.


Your data on homes is accurate but may be a bit outdated as a result of the housing collapse. I would be willing to bet that number gets extended a bit in the next decade. 

We see more than a few customers that choose metal because they are going to be in the home for 15 years and don't want to deal with the depreciated value on an asphalt roof that is in the last third of its historical lifespan.

They would rather pay for the roof once than pay for it twice by having to issue some sort of credit to the seller or have it be a negotiating point for the potential home buyer.

If you have a client that is buying solely on price and just wants asphalt, they are not a steel client. Many of the clients that choose steel are not picking standing seam anyway. More of our steel clients are picking the metal panel systems in replacement of wood shake, concrete "slates", or going for a new look like Spanish tile look.



MJW said:


> I would say that steel, clay, wood, asphalt, and slate all have their own areas of the country and it isn't going to change very quickly, if at all.


They certainly are more regional than anything, however, the newer panel systems are providing folks a replacement option for that shake roof that is 10 years old or that concrete tile roof that is on the way out. 

As far as a replacement for someone with an asphalt roof...not so much. We do have a client that is going for steel because she has replaced wind blown shingles for the last 7 years in her 10 year old roof. Given that we have had a gust of wind that is in excess of what what allow for her dimensional shingle, her wind warranty is no longer valid. She is done with asphalt but she is certainly the exception and not the rule.



MJW said:


> The 'argument' that steel is better than asphalt is an opinion at best. Why would anyone gamble on an opinion and spend 3-4x's the $$$ on that opinion?


How is it opinion? If anyone can provide me one example of a 50-year old asphalt roof, I am all ears/eyes. 

Metal has proven longevity, better wind lift resistance (sustained vs. gusts and an attachment to the course below that is not based on a bit of glue) and warranty, infinitely less prone to algae formation (great to have a 50-year asphalt roof when it looks streaked in 10 years and you have no warranty enforcement provisions), completely non combustible (many insurance companies issue refunds or reductions in home owners insurance based on steels non-combustibility...this is especially useful in areas of the country where they have wild fires and you won't see a shingle roof in those areas of California, Arizona, etc.), and significantly more efficient in cooling dominated climates (well documented and proven and especially so in hot climates).

I am not sure who you are getting to quote metal but the cost of installed metal in our region is about 1.5 - 2X that of good asphalt. 

If you are basing your logic on a 4X price increase then that is a tough pill to swallow and I would agree with your assessment. 



MJW said:


> In my area in MN, I don't think there is a supplier that even handles steel unless it is special order or pole barn steel. Certain small distributors that do steel roofs only, is the only place that would stock anything.
> 
> In 30 years of doing this, we have only had a handful of people asking about steel. Every one of them changes their mind when they find out the cost difference.


I would change my mind too if it were 4X as expensive.

That just isn't the case for us. The most expensive that we install in only 2.25X that of what we charge for a dimensional shingle installed.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Great post Windows. I was solely going on personal experience and it appears you are also. You have to take into consideration the different economic areas that we reside. I can think of 3 houses in my area that have steel roofs. One is standing seam and the other two are steel shingles of some sort. The standing seam roof looks flawless at about 12 years old, but it's still panel steel and looks out of place, IMO. The steel shingle roofs just look nasty after a few years. I would blame most of it on poor workmanship, but that's what you get in an area with no steel roofs. Poor quality and I'm sure they didn't pay appropriately.

I can only go by what I have seen personally, the rest is hear-say and means nothing IMO. I can't state anything I don't see as fact. It appears you have a very good understanding of steel roofs you have witnessed or installed personally. Just haven't seen that myself. With the current economy, I don't see anything changing around my area very soon.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I agree that they are regional and standing seam needs the right area to look proper.

You are also correct in that there is a bunch of people out there doing them that should not be doing them and royally fubar them in the process.

You probably won't see much of it but they are great for the right situations and right customer.

Maybe you could corner the market...? :thumbup:


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Good posts guys. I have yet to see a 40 year old shingle roof, much less a 50 year old one. We have many metal roofs along the eastern seaboard well past the 100 year old mark. I have many that have passed the 30-40 year mark.


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