# need advice on new windows



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Not going to happen. Way to may factors involved in how the J was installed, what type trim is on the outside.
Just buy a replacement window and have the outside exposed wood wrapped in aluminum coil stock.
If you post a picture inside and out that would help clear up your idea if I'm wrong.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

well the wood frames are very bad.. as far as the J channel it seems to be floating just caulked to the window frames.. I replaced the sill on one of the windows with a pvc sill and nose the sill actually goes completely from the inside to the outside.. and the J channel was just caulked to it so I checked the sides and the sides were the same way. as far as trim I wouldn't say there is not any just seems to be the wooden window frame, but I don't know how the window is installed on the sides if there are flanges on under the (asbestos) shingle that is what I was told they are the shingles that is. my problem is that I would need to remove the siding and the vinyl seems to me there has to be a better way..
I am afraid that the frames are so bad the putting the replacement windows in would run into problems down the road with the old wood frames continuing to rot away


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I am not sure I understand the question.

Are you worried about the replacement option be cause of glass loss? Otherwise, what you are describing is a replacement window.

If you have vinyl siding, the preferred method is an insert window with capping to the exterior.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

*picture*

the one window with the paint all over it was like that when I bought the house I did not paint it I just installed the sill. all the glazing is done and the actual bottom of the sash is rotted..


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

here is what they look like from the inside... there are screws that push on the wooden framing for adjusting the tension on the sashes show in one of the pics


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Joecaptain pictures uploaded for you sorry had to remove some trim to get the inside ones for you didn't have any pics ready to go


----------



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Personally I think I would strip back the vinyl siding and set a new construction window in there. More work,,,,,yes,,,,,better end results,,,,,,absolutely!

Mark


----------



## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> Personally I think I would strip back the vinyl siding and set a new construction window in there. More work,,,,,yes,,,,,better end results,,,,,,absolutely!
> 
> Mark


Op is concerned about disturbing asbestos containing shingle under siding.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Evstarr said:


> Op is concerned about disturbing asbestos containing shingle under siding.


You are 100% correct... I have worked as a auto mechanic for the last 20 some odd years I think I have had my share of asbestos already.. also under they shingles there is nothing no insulation you look right into the back of the inside drywall.. when I got the siding done I made sure I had styrofoam backed siding just for the reason of not having any insulation not to mention my siding is what they call "seemless" huge pieces


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

The reason I thought there was a way of doing this with out removing the siding is how do you install a window in a brick house?? Is it possible to use that type of window on my house so that the siding can remain in place? maybe needing to build the rough opening with 2x4's so there is some where to secure the window to, then some kind of molding on the outside, or would that window sit too deep where my J channels would not touch them?? I read somewhere about full frame replacement windows is that an option...I just don't want to remove my siding and have to deal with removing asbestos shingles under that.


----------



## Dierte (Jan 23, 2011)

In a brick house you pry out the old window with a crowbar or similar means. This all depends on what windows were installed too


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

As Joe and WoW alluded to, an insert window is going to be your best choice. The brickmold and sill nose are probably the extent of the bad wood that you have (at least they most commonly are), so they can be easily repaired/replaced without disturbing the siding. Install your new insert in the existing wood frame.... If otoh, that frame is just beyond repair, tear it out and build a new buck frame in the opening (1x material). Once again, there is no need to remove or cut siding. Both of those methods will involve a fin-less window, with fasteners going through the side jambs.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> As Joe and WoW alluded to, an insert window is going to be your best choice. The brickmold and sill nose are probably the extent of the bad wood that you have (at least they most commonly are), so they can be easily repaired/replaced without disturbing the siding. Install your new insert in the existing wood frame.... If otoh, that frame is just beyond repair, tear it out and build a new buck frame in the opening (1x material). Once again, there is no need to remove or cut siding. Both of those methods will involve a fin-less window, with fasteners going through the side jambs.


I see , I was looking at andersen windows will full frames with sill that screw through the side jams... I am very new to windows. but have done lots of other repairs on the house I am a auto mechanic of 20+ years so am able to work with my hands pretty well and a perfectionist... I just want to do it right and don't have the money to pay someone to do it... what is a "buck frame" >? sorry for the ignorance


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

A new wooden frame inside the rough opening for the window to sit in. You'd essentially recreate the frame that you tore out, just with new wood.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> A new wooden frame inside the rough opening for the window to sit in. You'd essentially recreate the frame that you tore out, just with new wood.


So if I did that I would need my measurements from there? I guess if it is made from 1x's then I just subtract an inch from the measurements I get at the rough opening?

thanks for all the help
simon


----------



## Dierte (Jan 23, 2011)

aticharger said:


> So if I did that I would need my measurements from there? I guess if it is made from 1x's then I just subtract an inch from the measurements I get at the rough opening?
> 
> thanks for all the help
> simon


1x's are actually 3/4" thick


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

1x's are indeed 3/4" thick, however you are going to want to slope the sill (like the original), and you'll need 1/8 to 1/4" all the way around to accommodate an out-of-square opening and add insulation foam.


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

op your windows most likely have no flange and are simply nailed thru the brickmould

you can absolutely install a new construction unit,possibly without disturbing any siding too much


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> op your windows most likely have no flange and are simply nailed thru the brickmould
> 
> you can absolutely install a new construction unit,possibly without disturbing any siding too much


Thanks, this is all much more positive help than I was getting in the first many responses. this is the information I was looking for and the kind that should be given on these types of boards.. thanks to everyone for the help and encouragement :thumbsup:


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

okay now we have established that I can buy new construction windows and secure them through the jams.. can anyone tell me what brands or where I can buy a decent affordable windows that come predrilled in the jams??

thanks
simon


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

Simon,new construction units will have a flange to secure the unit on the outside,i would say Simonton has decent units or Andersen 200 series are reasonably priced


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> Simon,new construction units will have a flange to secure the unit on the outside,i would say Simonton has decent units or Andersen 200 series are reasonably priced


I was under the impression you can get them with out the flange and some come with pre drilled holes in the jams to install that way. am I wrong?


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you just pull the brickmould off,without the inside trim the old unit will come right out with it

once i see rot i don't recommend inserts

hopefully you will find some building paper under the old unit,search window flashing on here or just come back and we will guide you through it:thumbsup:

then it's just a matter of some trim

it's simple..Simon


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

aticharger said:


> I was under the impression you can get them with out the flange and some come with pre drilled holes in the jams to install that way. am I wrong?



well yes,thru the jamb is an optional way to install new construction units,on wood units you would need to remove the jamb liner,vinyl units you will have to drill and install a plastic plug for the hole

but i would encourage you to get rid of your old frames


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> you just pull the brickmould off,without the inside trim the old unit will come right out with it
> 
> once i see rot i don't recommend inserts
> 
> ...


I don't want inserts.. I want a new window with sill, but I want to be able to secure them through the jams so I don't have to disturb my siding and asbestos tiles under that... I don't know what company would have windows that secure through the jams or do I have to customize them removing the nailing flange on the outside and drilling holes in the jams... I was wanting vinyl windows to keep the up keep down and rot away ... any suggestions ?


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

I want to get rid of old frames... are there windows that come with pre drilled holes and caps?? I want to replace the complete window... install in the rough opening. have you seen the horrible pics of my current windows in this thread? they need to go! I noticed on a lot of houses in my area with new window the big sills like I have are gone... is that an option on new windows?


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

Simon,there is no siding under the brick mould,the siding butts to the outside edge,once you pull the old unit there will be a flat spot where the window gets nailed to

there will be some flashing and some trim/j channel work but i don't think you will need to modify the siding


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

aticharger said:


> have you seen the horrible pics of my current windows in this thread? they need to go!



yes i have,and i'm trying to help:yes:


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you add the sills,in pvc if you want just like you did in the pic


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> you add the sills,in pvc if you want just like you did in the pic


I see so I can actually just measure my rough opening and order a window for that size and not have the sill... if I was to add a sill I would need to adjust my measurements... I really don't care for the sill myself.. and trust me you are being a GREAT help.. I was going to go to HD and feel them out see if they can tell me if the windows they sell come with pre drilled holes.... yes my siding does just but up against it... just caulked to the "brick molding"


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

well there will be some kind of trim to fill in the space between the new unit and your existing j channel

with the inside trim off i would measure the outside dimension of the old frame,it is most likely a stock size with probably a 4 9/16 jamb thickness


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

my neighbors put new windows in and they have a trim similar to the trim on the inside of the house on the outside over top of their siding... I did notice when I bought the sill for the other window they offer a vinyl brick molding... is that something that would be needed to butt it against my siding? if so how would you secure that to a vinyl window the proper way?


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you don't actually secure it ''to the window'',you secure it to the framing thats around the unit,Cortex screws and plugs work the best for this imo

http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/cortex-concealed-fastening-system-pvc-trim.html

yes depot carries them..


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> you don't actually secure it ''to the window'',you secure it to the framing thats around the unit,Cortex screws and plugs work the best for this imo
> 
> http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/cortex-concealed-fastening-system-pvc-trim.html
> 
> yes depot carries them..


awesome .... I think with your friendly advice.. I can do this... I am an auto mechanic by trade over 20 years... and if I can take a roof from a dodge caravan weld it to my 29 model a and finish the ribs of then do body work and paint the car never have done any body work before in my life... just following a good persons advice on a board like this, I think I will be able to get a window put in and looking like someone knew what they were doing when they installed it.. thanks for the help


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

okay went to the HD today and talked with a guy at the window department, I think he had no idea what I was talking about .. I asked him if certain windows came with out the flange on the sides and have pre-drilled holes to screw though the jams , or would I just need to fold the flanges back and drill my own holes , he was totally lost .. can anyone here answer that question for me so next time I go I can have a little more understanding of what I need to get as far as a new window goes


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Go to a local supply house. You will be much more likely to get better and correct answers.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Ati, Tom and I have each described different installations methods, and neither is wrong. You have a few different option is at your disposal. It seems as though you have a lot of significant questions regarding this installation, so you might check out some "how to" videos etc to get a better ( if not visual) understanding of what is involved.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> Ati, Tom and I have each described different installations methods, and neither is wrong. You have a few different option is at your disposal. It seems as though you have a lot of significant questions regarding this installation, so you might check out some "how to" videos etc to get a better ( if not visual) understanding of what is involved.


Both of you have given me great advice .. I am not at all confused on the installation... I think maybe my wording wasn't correct in my last question.. I was trying to find out if on some brands of windows, they will come with out the nailing flange and have pre-drilled holes, or would I need to either remove the flange or bend it back when I install the window then drill my own holes ... that is the question I was asking the guy at the store. I was trying to see if you could order a window with out the nailer flange and one with pre-drilled holes..and if so which brands may have this... that guy had no idea what I was talking about, in retrospect I guess I could of walked him over to a window and shown him what I was talking about, but he is one of those if you don't know what you are doing get someone else to do it for you.. wrong attitude for someone working at a HD in my opinion anyway thanks again for all the advice


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

thing is you seem to want a new construction and an insert at the same time,i don't understand why you would want to ''fold back'' the fins


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> thing is you seem to want a new construction and an insert at the same time,i don't understand why you would want to ''fold back'' the fins


so I don't have to mess with the siding. under my styrofoam backed siding is asbestos shingles.. don't want to mess with that stuff


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

didn't we already establish that your siding butts in to the window trim?:huh:

ah never mind good luck with your project:thumbsup:


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

ati, I'll give this another shot. With the method suggested by Tom, you CAN use a window with a fin due to the fact that you have brickmold trim around the existing unit. This _should not _disturb any of the hazardous materials that are present when that brickmold is removed and replaced after install... Essentially, the consensus is that you should either remove the entire window frame and install a new unit in the RO with nailing fin, or go "insert" style and install a window in the existing frame, with or without repairs or replacement of the buck frame. This is somewhat of a "high-level" conversation, so it is probably unreasonable to expect your local box store rep to comprehend. The main thing that is incumbent upon you at this point, is to decide what your needs and goals are for this project. We can only provide good advice if we are given accurate and thorough information about your existing situation, and what you are looking for in the finished product.


----------



## aticharger (May 13, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> ati, I'll give this another shot. With the method suggested by Tom, you CAN use a window with a fin due to the fact that you have brickmold trim around the existing unit. This _should not _disturb any of the hazardous materials that are present when that brickmold is removed and replaced after install... Essentially, the consensus is that you should either remove the entire window frame and install a new unit in the RO with nailing fin,



some how I missed that I could use one with a nailing fin since I have brickmolding .. sorry for all the confusion
:whistling2:


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

*finally got the new window in*

I got the new window installed it Saturday was able to work the edges of the nailing fins under he siding and asbestos shingles ontop of the tar paper.. I found that the old window was 1.5 inches from the bottom of the opening stuffed with some very old insulation.. I also ended up doing the best I could with brick molding and then extension jam, which turns out I could of got a 4 9/16 cause I had to build mine out 2 inches:furious: anyway here are some pics of how it came out... I know I need to work on my caulking skills and brick molding :yes:


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

I caulked the jamb extension so it looks like part of the window...:thumbsup: Thanks to everyone that helped me with this ! now I think the other 17 will be easier since I won't have to build an extension jamb the exterior pics are on the previous page .. page 3


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Congrats on the project.


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Not trying to be a killjoy here but it looks like you buried the weep holes in trim.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1 

Good catch kwikfishron.

Post up a picture that zooms in on the exterior trim detail across the sill.


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

Nope they are there and functional... :thumbsup:


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

atichargr said:


> Nope they are there and functional... :thumbsup:


Alrighty then. :thumbsup:

Now if you really want to put your install to the test, take the hose and spray all around the J. 

Pass that one then you have a reason to celebrate. :thumbup:


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

we are going to have some good rain an storms tonight and tomorrow.. I can't see any water getting into the install but if it does I know what I have to do


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

atichargr said:


> we are going to have some good rain an storms tonight and tomorrow.. I can't see any water getting into the install but if it does I know what I have to do


That’s assuming the rain actually pounds that window. :blink:

I think I read you have 17 more to do, so knowing your methods are bulletproof on this first one is worth the extra effort.


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

what would I be looking for as far as water penetration? I caulked the top and sides of the nailing fin before putting it up left the bottom with no caulk, then caulked the nailing fin and all nails and unused holes I thought I was going over board


----------



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Not trying to worry you, I’m sure you did fine. I just skimmed through the thread and without reading it through I know you got good advice. WoW, TS and HS are always spot on.

Your install (including caulking) looks good btw.


----------



## atichargr (Mar 29, 2009)

kwikfishron said:


> Not trying to worry you, I’m sure you did fine. I just skimmed through the thread and without reading it through I know you got good advice. WoW, TS and HS are always spot on.
> 
> Your install (including caulking) looks good btw.


thanks.. it will only get better as I go along.... I want to try to find a different brick molding...I am not so happy with the way it looks... I mean it looks okay just not perfect.... It is always good to challenge people to make sure they are doing it properly... :thumbup:


----------

