# sill / pan flashing questions



## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

There are commercially available sill pans. Just silicone it down to the underlayment. As for the brickmould, a good bed of silicone again, on the backside of the mould, and then finish with a bead around the perimeter.

My 2 cents:thumbsup:


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks Brown Dog - i appreciate the advice

Checked a couple of the local bldg stores and not having much luck so far finding prefab sill pans - I don't have the tools to try to fabricate one - I have seen the flashing tape around a couple of the same stores though, and thought that might be an option - I'll keep looking.

are the prefab pans very expensive, and do you know if they are typically sold in the big box stores like Home Depot or chains like TimBRMart (I'm in Canada)

thanks
-randy


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

As for the door pans, check a lumber yard...84 lumber, Stock Building Supply, or similar in your area. You can always get one made at a sheetmetal shop.
Another route would be to buy a pair of handheld "seamers" at your big box store, and some roll flashing....maybe 8" wide. Both of those will probably be around 30-40 dollars, but the seamers are good to keep around(good investment). If you choose this route or are interested, I'd be happy to explain how to bend one up.

That flashing tape is really only effective if you are using windows with a nailing flange. Per your first post, silicone on the backside of the brickmould is a good bet!:thumbsup:


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks again Brown Dog - if my search for the sill pan products turns up empty, then I'll look for the seamer as you suggested - i've never done any work with coil stock so if that's the route then I'll definitely be back to pester for more info

-randy


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

No problem. Although I just noticed an ad on the right side of page for sills..."sursill.com" is the company.

You'll probably find outh that it will be cheaper to bend your own...


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

*follow-up concern / questions*

I got a local renovator shop to bend some flashing for me for my door - pretty cheap - anyway, in my travels I talked with sales guy while in one of the home renovation places - he said they never use any kind of (metal) flashing on their patio door installs - apparently they caulk the sills, and use the DAP or Dow non-expanding foam to seal the sides / top. Claiming that the silicone is enough on the bottom, and that the foam makes it completely waterproof everywhere else.

After reading a ton of stuff on line I got the impression that flashing the sill on a door was like the most important thing to do in the install. Now I have someone in the business telling be they don't bother.

Just looking for opinions...

thanks
-randy


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

*follow-up concern / questions*

I got a local renovator shop to bend some flashing for me for my door - pretty cheap - anyway, in my travels I talked with sales guy while in one of the home renovation places - he said they never use any kind of (metal) flashing on their patio door installs - apparently they caulk the sills, and use the DAP or Dow non-expanding foam to seal the sides / top. Claiming that the silicone is enough on the bottom, and that the foam makes it completely waterproof everywhere else.

After reading a ton of stuff on line I got the impression that flashing the sill on a door was like the most important thing to do in the install. Now I have someone in the business telling be they don't bother.

Just looking for opinions...

thanks
-randy


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Randy -

All you did is talk to a home renovator guy that is probably the type that does cheap "flips" on TV shows and never worries about the results.

I know of builders that will not do an install without pan flashing, even though they use certified installers instead of their own people. - there is a bottom to every barrel, and renovator uis usually near there.


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

You need a door pan.....thats it. Water will find some way to get beyond the silicone and start eating up your flooring. Do yourself a favor...spend a little now to save A LOT later.


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

thanks folks - yes Brown Dog I took your advice and the pan is in the back of my truck now - just looking for some sanity checks which I have found here once again

thanks all

-Randy


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

another follow-up question - i've seen a few references here to using ice & water shield in certain window flashing applications - in my case (as mentioned earlier in this post) I'll have windows going into a wall that will not have any tyvek or other housewrap on it. I do have a pan flashing for my door (thanks again B Dog and others) but for the window I was wondering if I could use a strip of ice & water shield material (left over from the roofing work last fall) to flash the sill - and since there is no housewrap to "tuck around" the frame of the opening, maybe I could use the I&W on the jambs as well?

As with the door, an integrated brick mold on the window will be sealed (silicone) against the plywood (stained) exterior sheathing, with a bead around the edge (top and sides) to finish it off.

One day the outside will carry typar and hopefully a cement board lap siding like hardi-plank (another house down the way just had this done - sharp looking, critter proof - really nice - just ain't in my budget right now....)

thanks
-Randy


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, only running that I and W shield in tyhe jamb won't do a lot of good. Water can still get behind it. You really need to weatherlap the entire house for optimal performance. Just doing it in spots really defeats the purpose.

I would not bother with the I&W shield until you decide to wrap the entire house.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

brown dog, i would be interested in learning how to use a hand held seamer to turn rolled metal into flashing.

i am residing my house with wood board & batten. i will also be house wrapping with tyvec.

i will probably need to flash my windows. and probably the doors.

can you provide detail info, or direct me to a good website or book?

thanks!
Knucklez


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

I'd be happy to tell you how I do it. If appearance is no.1 on your list though, rent a brake...you'll get a cleaner look. Hand seamers do a fine job, you just can't get that bend to be as crisp as with a brake. Email me if still interested: [email protected]


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i think i got it. here is my plan for the window header piece. where should i put the caulking?

do i need flashing down the side or bottom?

i will see about renting a metal bender tool... if not available i'll just do my best to bend into a Z-shape using a table edge and piece of 2x4


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

Yep, thats pretty much it. On your window flashing(and maybe you were planning to do this)I would make that lip go around the 3 sides of your header trim. Also, the only place I would caulk is where the header trim meets the jamb. You could also put a kerf just before they meet, on the header piece, to encourage any water to drop off before it even gets to that joint.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

ok, thanks - i've updated the drawing below.

i think folding the flashing in 3 ways will be tricky.. might take some practice before i can get it in one go..

are you sure the caulking is right? i was just thinking that if any water DID get in there, i would like it to gravity feed out. but if there is caulking along the bottom seam this won't happen.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Nice detail drawing what program are you useing. BOB


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Are you carrying the extra flap above well beyond the side of the opening/flange?

It seems the caulk can cause more harm than good.

Dick


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

As for the caulk, water always seems to find gaps and weaknesses in anybodys project....wherever they are. My personal opinion, caulk it.

Maybe I didn't explain myself with the flashing issue. You already have drawn the final bend, down and in front of the header trim(looks like 1/4-1/2 inch bend ). What I meant to convey was to continue that same bend and create a "return" if you will, on both ends of that header trim. 

Unless you will have the thing made up where they can solder the corners, heres what I would do:

Extend that front downward bend beyond the total length of the trim by about an inch on both sides. Then bend that "ear" back over the side, downward bends.

Did I do better?


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

no you didn't do any better - but you tried hard and that counts for something :thumbsup:

i removed the caulking from the picture (not totally convinced its a good idea) and i drew the over-hang more pronounced.

the flashing is basically just "*Z*" shaped. so it is one long piece of 6" (hopefully i can buy wider!) aluminium which has 2 folds in it. there are no ear flaps. the total length of this flashing equals the length of the trim piece.

ps. i copy/pasted the image from another website and then edited it using paint.net so it better matched my own application.


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

Ok...I'll give it one last try. See if I can get my feeble mind in gear this a.m.

You are suggesting to have a simple piece of Z-flashing over the trim and I'm assuming it will extend beyond that length by 1/2 - 1 inch or so. I just have always done one more step in mine, and that was to take the bend that is sitting on TOP of the window trim and extend that as well. Then, I would fold that extra extension down, over the end grain, to match your front bend. To finish it off, I would have cut my FRONT bend, say 1/2 inch longer than the TOP bend, so I now have a 1/2 "ear" to fold over the bend that is convering the end grain. Essentially creating a 3-sided pan....

Thats the best I can do...but your drawing is just fine and should work flawlessly! Just different methods.:yes:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

ok, i think i understand you now. your method sounds like it was born from experience about what works better than other.

from my ameture point of view.. i went to HD tonight and what they sell pre-made looks more like my first picture. so ... that's what i'm going to use.

but, i do appreciate your willingness to pass on knowledge and help out a DIY'er. please keep it up!

14 yard disposal bin is rolling onto property this weekend. got lots of scaffolding. got family & friends coming over all weekend.. we're going to have FUN ripping off all this old siding :yes:

Knucklez


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## Brown Dog (Jul 6, 2008)

Better you than I my friend! Have fun!

:thumbup:


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

Hey Knucklez - I see you're in Ontario, Canada - in the southern part or up here in the boonies?

Just looking at your drawing - couple questions (since siding will be on the to-do list here a few years out - might as well start learning what I can now...)

- why board and batten siding - is this for aesthetics, or budget, etc. - what made you go that route?

- furring strips - is this something you do for air space in behind the siding, implying you can't go right against the wrap?

- the furring strips seem to run horizontal - wondering why - lately I've seen a couple houses in the area here where the contractors ran the strips vertical and then siding across them and i figured that was the way to go - hope this isn't a dumb question

this thread has been very informative - thanks all....

-Randy


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

hi rtoni, 

i have a lot more info on the subject over here: LINK

chose board & batton because we really like the authentic old age look. you can also choose any colour.

the furring strips are there mostly to allow air passage behind the boards. the boards themselves are groved on the back side to allow air to travel past the furring strips.

furring strips running horizontal because the wood siding is going on vertically.

hope this helps,
Knucklez


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## rtoni (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks Knucklez - I guess I should have figured out the siding thing (vertical vs horizontal) from your drawings - foggy brain - anyway the add'l info and sanity check are very much appreciated

-Randy


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