# LVL Beam / Load beam?



## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm looking to finish my basement. The area is rather small and in order to open up the area I'm looking at removing the support pole placed in the middle of the room. The pole is currently rated not to exceed 14,800 lbs. The pole supports two LVL beams ( 11' 3/4" H x 13' 10" L x 1' 3/4" W....dimension for each beam). One side of the LVL beam is placed on the foundation and the other end is placed on top of two 2x4s sandwiched together.

Will placing two additional LVL Beams (same dimensions) be enough to remove the pole? Do I need to attach the new LVL beams to the existing beams. If so, what is the best methods to use. Do I need to jack up the beam prior to placing the new beams in place. Any help with this matter would be great. I'll attach photo if necessary. Thanks


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## Reilley (Sep 4, 2008)

Can you restate your beam measurements please?

Pictures would help. I doubt you'll be able to remove the pole.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

No, you can't do that.
Ron


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

So you want to span almost 28' without a pole?
In my garage -I spanned 24' - required triple 14" beams
This was supporting a great room above, and a walk up attic
My beams were engineered - I actually went with triple 16" instead

Most lumber companies can give you a size on an LVL beam
But based on my size you would be looking at 16-18" beams
That's if it's possible - depends upon the load, number of floors
This is the main support for your house & should be engineered for the load. My building Dept required engineered stamp

You can't simply wing it, this is a main support & would be a catastrophic failure if undersized


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

The way I read it is that the beam comprised of a double LVL. The total length of the beam is 13'10". There is a post in the middle and the spans are half of the 13'10" or 6'11".
Currently the beam is bearing on the foundation on one side, a post in the middle (the one he wants to remove), and a double 2x4 on the other side. My guess is this double 2x4 is tied into a wall.
The OP wants to take out the post in the middle and make a single span of 13'10". 
This should be completely doable but to size it properly, you need to talk to someone that understands loads. Simply doubling it won’t work. Many lumberyards offer the beam spec service for free.


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm sorry, here is a little clearification. What Clutchcargo said is correct. The width of the room is 13'10". The measurement I provided on the LVL was one of the beams. The two LVL's are sandwiched together. Total width of the beam is 3' 1/2". The side with the two 2x4's is attached to an unfinished wall. 

With the correct LVL beam do I need to jack up the beam prior to placing the new beams in place or can I attach the LVL's together and simply remove the pole? Thanks for the help. I'll attach photo this evening. Thanks


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

That's a much better span distance
You would need to go to a lumber yard & have them size the beam
Mine did it for free, I did buy my LVL's from them
They want to know what bears on the beam
Walls above, total stories of the house, roof area/way it slants

They will be able to tell you if you can just sandwich another beam or two or if you will need a bigger beam

I needed (3) 16" LVL's to span 12' with a wall above (walk up attic) & roof load


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

You may be able to just laminate the laminated beam with 1/2" steel plate on each side. A structural engineer or someone that knows how to run the software will be able to spec that.
ScubaDave, 3x16" LVL seems overkill for a 12' opening. Is there a point load on that too?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

That's the engineered size, this is a side view of the addition
The beam in question is where the 17' & 19' lines meet
It is supporting the attic wall & 1/2 the floor above
It then supports 1/2 the Cathedral roof & 1/2 the attic roof


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

I see, you have a lot of tributary floor load.


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

Clutch,

Would steel be cheaper than LVL and which would be easier to install? How would I go about contacting someone to run the numbers? Would a local building supply be able to help.......and last question....I'm I getting into an area that I should pay someone else to do the job. I just keep looking at it thinking that I've tackled tougher projects, I just need to know I'm placing enough support for the space/weight. Thanks for the help


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Have you considered taking your information to your local building inspector's office? I'm sure he will give you good and correct advice.
The job itself is not difficult. You just need to be certain it has adequate strength and proper bearing at both ends.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

tarr, could you post some pictures?


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

clutch----I'll place them online tonight---thx


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Any supplier who sells the LVL should be able to size the beam for you.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

cocobolo said:


> Have you considered taking your information to your local building inspector's office? I'm sure he will give you good and correct advice.
> The job itself is not difficult. You just need to be certain it has adequate strength and proper bearing at both ends.


Actually most (if not all) inspectors here will not get involved in sizing a beam. They do not have the software to do so. And if they are incorrect they are liable for damages. My Inspector required Engineer stamps on the beam sizes/plans


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

I was thinking more along the line of him just installing a regular built up beam, like 4 x 2x12's or something. This is in our code books and could be checked instantly. The LVL's can be sized by the manufacturer, as mentioned above. I think if I were he in that house I would just whack up a regular lumber built-up beam. Cheap, easy and strong.


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

Sorry it took so long guys----here are the photos. Let me know what you think. Tarr


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I'd go to a lumber yard & have it sized
You simply do not guesstimate on a main support beam

If nominal lumber would have carried the load they probably would have used reg lumber. Better safe then sorry


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Tarr618, I gather that the LVL supplier told you what size you needed, right?
Will you be removing the support post in the middle?
Scuba_Dave, the world has been using regular nominal sized lumber for decades successfully. I think it is not so much a case of being better safe than sorry, but perhaps more what the guy doing the job was happy with. Either way would have been perfectly safe. It seems only two LVL's were needed.
In this day and age everyone is worried about liability. Certainly nowhere more so than in the states.
Where you are, do you not have quick access to - as in this case for example - beam sizing?
I don't think I have bought a code book since about 1975, but just very recently I got a copy of a framing book produced by CMHC, which is the governing body in Canada for the code. Nothing has really changed structurally, but I was pleased to see that they are now encouraging conservation of materials in building. It certainly wasn't always so.
Even though an LVL might cost more than a "nominal" similarly sized piece of lumber, it is made from small pieces. Thus actually saving wood which might otherwise be discarded.
I think Tarr has probably made a good choice and will no longer have to worry.
Lookin' good!


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Although this beam seems oversized, I suspect that what's driving the size of the beam has something to do with the blocking in the middle of the left side. What's above this beam? As already mentioned, you need to have the beam sized.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Beam sizing takes longer to get to the lumber yard then it actually does to do the sizing. And its FREE, there is NO reason NOT to have this sized. If you are pulling a permit the Inspector should insist on it, mine did. If you do not have a permit, do not have this engineered & it collapses your Insurance company will most likely refuse any claim

Yes, in the US its all about liability. The Inspector will usually insist on an engineering load calc so he won't be liable. 

Tarr hasn't made ANY choice yet
He wants to remove the post under the LVL's & wants to know what he needs to do to support the entire span


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

So, do we know if Tarr has contacted the LVL company to find out what he needs?
If another 1 or 2 LVL's are required to safely carry the load, then the support at the right hand side will have to be altered.
One other very minor point. The photo (close up) of the beam sitting in the pocket has two shims under it. The grain runs parallel to the LVL's. Either the grain should run opposite, or a steel plate should be installed. Steel is dirt cheap, so I would use that.


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

Yes I'm pulling a permit and yes they require a structural eng stamp on removing the post. Couldn't get a lot of help at the county. Lowes and Home Depot was a waste of time. I finally (this evening found a lumber yard in northern VA that might be able to help). 

On the main floor above the beam is the master bedroom/bathroom and on the second floor is a small bedroom. This house is a traditional Cape Cod style home. Above grade sq ft is around 1500. It's a rather small home, that's why I'm trying to maximize the space. 

When I find the right post to be placed (if allowed)....are there things I need to do to make sure the install goes smooth?

Tarr---Thanks again for all the help.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Tarr, the first thing to do is know what what size beam will support your house. Only then can you come up with a plan. There are many people here that enjoy helping.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Good luck with your lumber yard in Northern VA, I certainly hope they can put you on the right track.
It doesn't sound to me as though you have that much load on the beam.
Are you going to add additional LVL's to each side of that pair? And is there room to fit the ends of the LVL's into the beam pocket?
Don't think much of your county office. Don't they have examples of a few thousand other similar homes in the area? Surely they can see what worked in the past.


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

That's what's been slowing things down. Like I said Lowes and Home Depot were a waste of time for help. When I spoke a structural eng on Fri, he said that he'd spec the right LVL for the replacement (if possible) but it comes at a little price ($900). Of course I don't want to end up with flashing or worse if I were to not place enough support.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Spanning 12' with 2 floors I needed a 3x 14" to hold the weight
They will usually be able to offer options on sizes
Hopefully you will just be able to add the same size beams & new supports. Is that pocket on one end big enough for more beams?
If not you can come out from the wall & install supports
For my sunroom they specd either 3x 12" or 2x 14"
I went with the 14" - less money & better spec

When my beams were sized they spec'd the bearing support on each end. In my case it was triple 2x6. In some places I overdid the support 2x's due to the way my walls were built

I didn't even try HD or Lowes for beam sizing. There are 2 Lumber yards in the area (probably more) & they size beams for free. One of them then also sent the sizing plans out for an engineer stamp - also for free

I used trusslok screws to hold my beams together
You need a 1/2" drill to screw them in


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## tarr618 (Jul 4, 2008)

Scuba,

I'm going to Smitty's tomorrow.....is this one of your two in my area and if not could you provide me with the names......thx


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I went to Cape Cod Lumber for sizing - I didn't get too far with them as it seemed every time I was there the people doing the sizing were in a meeting. They have more the location - I think the other is near the Cape

For almost everything I went to Hingham Lumber - in Scituate I think
They sized all my beams for the addition & sent them out for the Engineer stamps. I think this is their only location


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