# Moles or Something Else



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

It could be Voles, which are mouse-like and are herbivores. We have both and have pretty much given up on trying to control them. The worse of the two is the Voles damage when the snow melts in the Spring. I don't think I've heard of any one thing that is completely effective; however I plan to lime our lawn this year and a couple of neighbours have found that their Vole damage was considerable reduced.









Dealing with Voles and Moles - Garden Fundamentals


Voles or moles - which one is damaging your garden? Learn to identify the culprit and and how to get rid of them from your garden.




www.gardenfundamentals.com


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

I always ask the same question. Here we have way more voles than moles. Both are attracted to freshly tilled soil and new sod. I had voles come in immediately after doing sod in the front & back. When I install new beds, I mulch with compost instead of bark as both love wood chips. We also have some other critters that like to dig. Pics are going to be most helpful.

Typically it takes at least a couple weeks for grub killer to work. It has to move into the root zone and stay there when the grub lifecycle brings them back up to feed. Depending on type of grubs, application timing is in my area is mid-March to lat April & then again sometime in July through 1st week of August.

Unless you had grass in the back previously, grubs likely are not there in sufficient numbers to be an attractant. Also, most grub treatments are not effective on new sod until it is fully established which is 2 or 3 seasons.


----------



## nytimes770 (Sep 23, 2017)

i'm in northern GA. my little research suggests voles are not common here. i actually had a pest control company who said it was moles. they were out again today who said maybe it's a whole family of them taking turns eating the bait or some need to eat more than one piece to die.  so i refilled the hole again and put a camera some 6 ft away to hopefully see what animal it is. but of course, there has been no activity yet.

The grub spray - it seems to be working. While reeling up the hose after spraying some this morning, i found some grubs stuck to the hose.


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

nytimes770 said:


> i'm in northern GA. my little research suggests voles are not common here. i actually had a pest control company who said it was moles. they were out again today who said maybe it's a whole family of them taking turns eating the bait or some need to eat more than one piece to die. so i refilled the hole again and put a camera some 6 ft away to hopefully see what animal it is. but of course, there has been no activity yet.
> 
> The grub spray - it seems to be working. While reeling up the hose after spraying some this morning, i found some grubs stuck to the hose.


Your location just said US so it was trying to cover the bases.

Was the sod just a small area that was put into a larger established lawn? Did you have the grub damage brown spots (front/back/both)? Grubs are the larval stage for several types of beetles. I am not sure I have encountered the larvae exiting the soil until the adult beetle stage. Do you have pics of what was on the hose? They are not fast movers; how long had the hose been there?

Does it looks like what's in these pics?








Billbugs and White Grubs: Control in Home Lawns - 5.516


Billbugs and white grubs are insects that damage turf grasses by feeding on the roots. Types of billbugs, methods for control, and recovery from billbug damage are discussed.




extension.colostate.edu












White Grub Pests of Turfgrass


White grubs are the larvae of scarab beetles. All are C-shaped, white to dirty white in color, with a brownish head and legs.




extension.uga.edu












White Grub Management in Turfgrass


White grubs are the larval (immature) stage of several different scarab beetles. In South Carolina, as well as the rest of the southeastern United...




hgic.clemson.edu


----------



## nytimes770 (Sep 23, 2017)

A. Danger Powers said:


> Your location just said US so it was trying to cover the bases.
> 
> Was the sod just a small area that was put into a larger established lawn? Did you have the grub damage brown spots (front/back/both)? Grubs are the larval stage for several types of beetles. I am not sure I have encountered the larvae exiting the soil until the adult beetle stage. Do you have pics of what was on the hose? They are not fast movers; how long had the hose been there?
> 
> ...


I had some 5 pallets installed 2 months ago. Most of it is firmly attached to the ground, i'd say maybe 10% is soft due to the underground creatures. I do not know if i had grub damage. i just applied it thinking grubs are natural to have, and getting rid of them will remove the food source for what i thought/think are moles. Yes, the grubs are similar in size to your pictures. i think the ones i saw were darker though.

Still no activity by where i placed the camera. Wondering if it detects human scent or something on the camera or they all are dead. Or they are camera shy.


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

Hmmm, if you get some pictures it would help. Lawn grubs that do root damage are very light. They don't come out until the adult beetle stage.

Everyone talks about grubs when it comes to grass damage but most often it's another culprit. Any of the grub insecticides typically targets these other culprits as well.

There are a number of worms & millipedes that can appear similar to grub if you don't look (or if you're at my age, haven't changed to the correct spectacles).

Moles typically prefer soil dwelling food sources. I you have surface worms/crickets/etc, that changes things and definitely impacts how you address your grass issues ongoing.

Here's some sources for Georgia insects may be worth trying verify your infestation:








Know Your Pests: 4 Pests That Enjoy Atlanta, GA Lawns - Lawnstarter


Lawn care is a year-round duty but unfortunately, the warmer summer months make lawn care even more difficult as pests […]




www.lawnstarter.com










Georgia Insects (1,148 Found)


Page showcasing all insects found in the North American state/province/territory of Georgia



www.insectidentification.org


----------



## nytimes770 (Sep 23, 2017)

A. Danger Powers said:


> Hmmm, if you get some pictures it would help. Lawn grubs that do root damage are very light. They don't come out until the adult beetle stage.
> 
> Everyone talks about grubs when it comes to grass damage but most often it's another culprit. Any of the grub insecticides typically targets these other culprits as well.
> 
> ...


OK, here is a picture i took this morning while watering my lawn. I had applied the triazicide through my hose yesterday. This is on the smaller side of what i've seen. i haven't seen tons of them - just maybe 3 coincidentally. i was not trying really hard to find them and they would be hard to see in the grass anyway. 

So I'm doing all i can to rid of the mole/vole issue:
1. trying to remove food source by spraying this
2. green pellets that are more for voles and mice
3. mole worm bait
4. even sent cages some time ago

Tomorrow i have some sound repellents coming so i'll try that too. i am desperate to get rid of this problem.


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

nytimes770 said:


> OK, here is a picture i took this morning while watering my lawn. I had applied the triazicide through my hose yesterday. This is on the smaller side of what i've seen. i haven't seen tons of them - just maybe 3 coincidentally. i was not trying really hard to find them and they would be hard to see in the grass anyway.
> 
> So I'm doing all i can to rid of the mole/vole issue:
> 1. trying to remove food source by spraying this
> ...


Those are not grubs. Those are army worms (or armyworms) which are outlined in the link above. They are moth larvae and apparently really bad this year in GA. They call them fall army worms...

Those will make short work of your grass but the damage is not permanent. Follow the triazicide liquid instructions for application. I believe you are not supposed to mow for 3 days after applying. Also, you probably want to look at using the triazicide granules in the future as those will offer longer protection.

Many folks also seem to recommend Sevin (carbaryl) for army worms control. If there is a lot of grass damage, might need to try a couple different products but not at the same time. You can alternate applications but doubliing up can cause long-term damage.





__





Fall Armyworms – Center for Urban Agriculture







ugaurbanag.com












Fall Armyworms are on the move | A Fruitful Discussion


Georgia farmers are never surprised to see fall armyworms munching on their stands of corn, sorghum and forage hay crops – they just hope for a low number of armyworms. UGA Extension Entomologist, Will Hudson, describes fall armyworms as the “larval or caterpillar stage of a nondescript, small...




site.extension.uga.edu












Armyworms in Sod


There is considerable confusion regarding the life cycle and timing of fall armyworm infestation in turfgrass. It is not unusual for fall armyworms to infest newly planted sod in a home landscape, especially during late summer to fall. When fall armyworm infestation is detected, sod producers...




extension.uga.edu





Can you post pictures of what you think is the mole sign? Typically army worms are not a food source for moles. It would require they spent too much time in the open out of their burrows.

Also, if you can post a pic of a a large area of the lawn (20+ square feet), that would help..


----------



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I dunno - looks like a white grub to me and doesn't look like any image of an Army Worm I can find online, but the image is small and I'm that familiar with what goes on in other areas.


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

If you look at the pics, it's pretty obviously not a grub. It has stripes down the sides. It has the wrong coloration, the head & tail are the wrong shape, the skin types are different,, and you can see legs along its length where grubs only have 3 pair. The army worm is curled up as many pictures of grubs which could be what is throwing it off.

Also, you do not see alive grubs above ground. They stay under the sod and emerge as beetles.

Here's some closeups so you can see what I am talking about










EDIT: Here's one with closer coloration. If you look closely at the sample, you can also the small black hairs which a grub does not have:


----------



## nytimes770 (Sep 23, 2017)

from this morning:

before and after i kicked it


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

nytimes770 said:


> from this morning:
> 
> before and after i kicked it


Yep, those are more fall armyworms.


----------



## nytimes770 (Sep 23, 2017)

OK, thanks for that. is it possible to have both at the same time? what feeds on army worms?

i actually wonder what animals are digging in my bermuda lawn and mulch bed. maybe different animals? i still have yet to see any.

could it be an armadillo digging? 

yesterday i put out a sonic spike into the hole in the mulch bed that had been dug. a few hours later i saw a hole right next to it. i thought maybe the animal dug itself out so i recovered the hole, only to find the hole again this morning. the hole is around 2 inches in diameter. covered by mulch..there are some dead leaves around it from the shrub that sits on top of it. this is right in front of my house, near concrete. this is where i had dropped in mole bait worms and rat/mouse/vole green pellets and they disappeared, but the hole kept being reholed.


----------



## A. Danger Powers (Aug 13, 2021)

Most lawns have grubs. In a healthy lawn, they never get so populous they cause visible damage. A lot of people mistake armyworm damage for grub damage. If you can post a picture of a large area of the yard, we should be able to discern if there is grub damage.

If it's not grub damage, there may be other environmental factors that need to be addressed.

Again, pics of the areas with the holes/digging would help. They could be moles but they could be something else. In my area we have a couple varieties of burrowing snakes that everyone mistakes as mole sign. They hit the garden beds & fresh soil as it's easy burrowing.


----------



## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I only saw the pic in Post 8 with the 'suspect' on the hose. I didn't realize there were two other, and more detailed pics attached.


----------

