# Flatscreen over the fireplace? Is this really a good idea?



## kashimama

We are planning on doing this and also using what looks like a built in wood box on the side of the fireplace for the components. I'm starting to worry that this may be a bad idea -- won't they get too hot? Anyone with experience with either issue?


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## ktkelly

I wouldn't worry about it. This is a very common practice.

My personal preference is to have an enclosure over the fireplace for the TV, rather than just have it hanging on the front of the surface, but that's not something that has to be done.

I've mounted PDP's and LCD's to the front of fireplaces with marble, natural stone and faux stone facing. Never a problem with heat.

I would ask if the installer is planning on running VGA, HDMI, Component, Composite and a line for IR from equipment enclosure to TV mount. And also if there's a plan for surge protection/line conditioning for TV and source equipment.


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## Brik

Yea, no heat issues usually. But, it CAN be a bad, awkward, viewing position. Maybe try it out temporarily before you permanently mount it there to see if you get a kinked neck or not.


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## kashimama

Ah! I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the tip!


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Yes, Ideally, the proper height for TV viewing is supposed to be at your eye level when seated. I remember reading about this home theater point 15 years ago. 

I was really into Home Theaters back then and was seriously thinking about branching out into custome installations. Back then, there were alot of people who didn't even know what a home theater was. I still have my laserdisc player (It plays CD's too)...


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## triple7allstar

Yeah, 

I personally love the aesthetic of mounting a flat screen above a fire place, but would be cautious of your viewing angle. There are swivel mounts for flat screens that will angle downward, so that you are less likely to get a kink in your neck when viewing.

something like this might be just the ticket:
http://www.ambientweather.com/dbpla2s.html
or this
http://www.peerlessindustries.com/d...duct.aspx/productId/164327/categoryID/195/u/T


Hope that helps


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## ktkelly

*A couple installs.*

LG 42 PDP, OmniMount U3T w/Pinnacle QP9 speaker on faux stone (source equipment in cabinets to the left).

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/ktkelly_photos/House103.jpg

And a 37" Panasonic PDP in a recess (cable box is missing, and the bright white molding was later toned down).

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/ktkelly_photos/House108.jpg


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## Bacardi 151

Question about mounting a flatscreen to a typical wall made of drywall...What can you legally do to get hide the electric cord? I could run the tvs plug through the wall and up to my attic. In the attic I have an light socket and could add a plug to that and with an ext cord. But would fire be a problem? I called one electrician who said he'd charge $200 to add a new outlet behind the tv...Any DIY options?


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## ktkelly

Bottom line is that the wiring that goes in the wall needs to be rated for such use. And the power cord is not. Nor would you want to connect this mess together with an extension cord. Now that IS a bad move...

But...

What you can do is install a old work box where it'll be located behind the flat panel and run a piece of 14-2 romex up to the attic where it may be connected to an existing line inside an existing junction box (that is if your home is wired with romex, not aluminum, or wired in conduit).


As long as you feel comfortable messing around with the electric... , it's not all that difficult... 

Truth be told the electrician wold most likely do this same thing.



If you do this I would strongly recommend using a Panamax "MIW-Power" behind the flat panel. This device will provide surge protection as well as prevent a ground loop.


You can also add the MIW-5RCA module for the lines coming from the source equipment for a nice clean installation....:thumbsup:


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## keyser soze

+! for the MIW-power. The 5RCA module does actaully surge protect the line level feeds too. I thought is was just for looks for years and I was wrong. IIRC it won't pass digital coax. Not that I've ever tried that before :no:.

Anyway, the electrician would just cut in a box behind the TV and fish a piece of romex either down to a recepticle thats below the TV (easy), into the basement (least easy) or up into the attic (not so hard if you do it in the right order). then he'd wire up a outlet (or Panamax in-wall preferrebly) (and hopefully with the breaker OFF) and VOILA no more power wire. Do not, read *DO NOT put a power cable in the wall. *It will be just as hard as doing it the right way.

As to the TV over the FP (what is up with the hijacking here? so confusing, wait I just hijacked!). We do it all the time. A recess can be bad for a tight fitting plasma because that will get hot WITHOUT a FP underneath. Just make sure you attach the wall bracket really well (read; put in four bolt or screws (depending on the wall material), hang from the bracket, try to pull it off the wall then add two more screws). I would def recommend a TILTING wall bracket (up/down) as opposed to a swivel or articulating bracket (left/right). That will give you a better picture.


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## tima2381

kashimama said:


> We are planning on doing this and also using what looks like a built in wood box on the side of the fireplace for the components. I'm starting to worry that this may be a bad idea -- won't they get too hot? Anyone with experience with either issue?


It's a terrible idea for a number of reasons:

You will need a roomful of recliners to be able to view it comfortably, and I imagine being forced into that position would get pretty irritating after a while. Well, I guess tall people could stand all the time.
Having purchased a Nintendo Wii recently, I don't see how you could play Wii Sports with a TV mounted so high. It would ruin bowling and tennis for sure.
Designs that intend for you to put your TV there may compromise wall space so that you can't position it properly on the floor.
Don't do it.


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## keyser soze

*uhhhh*

tima2381, he didn't ask whether it would be the absolute best placement, only if it would get too hot. It will not got too hot unless there is a recess and he chooses a plasma just has too little clearance.

1. Not everyone's mantles are 6' tall. Some (like mine) are less then 4' tall. Also a tilt mount would help with viewing angle. 
2. They may not have or want a Wii. Also, did you stop to think that they might have other TV's in the home if they did have a Wii?
3. Designs that intend for you to put your TV there may compromise wall space so that you can't position _WHAT_ properly on the floor?

I say it's _not_ a terrible idea. It's not what _I_ would do with my only TV but it's your house, you can do whatever you want. That's my favorite part of owning a home. :thumbsup:


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## tima2381

keyser soze said:


> tima2381, he didn't ask whether it would be the absolute best placement, only if it would get too hot. It will not got too hot unless there is a recess and he chooses a plasma just has too little clearance.
> 
> 1. Not everyone's mantles are 6' tall. Some (like mine) are less then 4' tall. Also a tilt mount would help with viewing angle.
> 2. They may not have or want a Wii. Also, did you stop to think that they might have other TV's in the home if they did have a Wii?
> 3. Designs that intend for you to put your TV there may compromise wall space so that you can't position _WHAT_ properly on the floor?
> 
> I say it's _not_ a terrible idea. It's not what _I_ would do with my only TV but it's your house, you can do whatever you want. That's my favorite part of owning a home. :thumbsup:


The heat issue is an interesting question, but so are usability and ergonomics. This placement idea is incompatible with the latter, at least for a general-purpose TV, so there may not be much point in worrying about the former. Hopefully someone experienced enough to think about overheating will also consider the issues I mentioned, but you never know. Probably half the houses I looked at last year had "TV over the fireplace" designs, and I had to explain to my agent and others why it's such a bad idea for the main TV. Lots of people don't think about any of this; instead, they say things like, "Oh look, how clever, that will save space." It's only later they realize the painful truth.

1. I understand how tilting my computer monitor up a bit, so that it meets my gaze naturally, is useful and necessary. I fail to see how tilting a TV that is mounted too high downwards does anything remotely as useful. I guess it might help with all those recliners he'll need. And four feet is still too high.

2. True, I'm assuming that a "TV over the fireplace" is the main TV in the house, and it should accommodate a variety of uses. You're missing the point about my Wii comment. I haven't owned a game console since my Atari 2600 back in the late 70's. I got the Wii on a lark, and it was while playing the games I mentioned that I realized how unplayable they would be if the TV were above the fireplace. As AtlanticWBConst mentioned earlier, the de facto standard position is "eye level when sitting", and other products, such as Wii, tacitly assume it will be followed. (You stand while playing tennis and bowling, and looking downwards a little ways is much preferable to looking up; no, it's not just preferable, it's ideal, while having to look up would be unacceptable.) When I was house hunting last year, I rejected those that put the TV over the fireplace based solely on my reason (1), the need for a "roomful of recliners". Getting the Wii months later made me appreciate my decision even more, albeit for a totally unforeseen reason.

3. The TV, of course.


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## keyser soze

I do not understand all of the wording but I think we agree. I don't want one there and neither do you. I don't think we need to argue about it anymore. The tilt mount at least makes the TV face directly at you instead of facing the wall above your head. My terminology was wrong. It does not change the viewing angle but it does improve perceived picture quality. I get a little too rushed when I reply sometimes (like right now, I get off work at 4:30).

I agree horizontal centerline of the TV should be at eye level when seated. That's where I would hang it if it were my TV and my house.

Still I say that if someone wants a TV over their FP they should put the TV there. We have customers that get this setup to be "cool" [didn't say that I agree with it] while the TV's they actually spend time watching are lower. It won't hurt a thing. It will not overheat.

If someone wants to be _really_ cool they get a roll up painting over the TV that's over the FP. I'd rather spend that money on Crestron gear but if it weren't for those kinds of people I'd still be swinging a sledgehammer and running a torch to make ends meet.


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## ktkelly

*Rebuttal....*



tima2381 said:


> It's a terrible idea for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. You will need a roomful of recliners to be able to view it comfortably, and I imagine being forced into that position would get pretty irritating after a while. Well, I guess tall people could stand all the time.


Actually you would NOT need " a roomful of recliners". Viewing can be, and is, quite comfortable with a standard sofa or chair as a matter of fact.



> 2. Having purchased a Nintendo Wii recently, I don't see how you could play Wii Sports with a TV mounted so high. It would ruin bowling and tennis for sure.


Bowling and tennis on a Wii are typically played in a standing position, so, in my professional opinion, having the TV at a lower height could ruin the pleasure of those particular games.[/quote]



> 3. Designs that intend for you to put your TV there may compromise wall space so that you can't position it properly on the floor.


 
I really don't understand what you're trying to say with this paragraph. 
Explanation?




> The heat issue is an interesting question, but so are usability and ergonomics. This placement idea is incompatible with the latter, at least for a general-purpose TV, so there may not be much point in worrying about the former. Hopefully someone experienced enough to think about overheating will also consider the issues I mentioned, but you never know. Probably half the houses I looked at last year had "TV over the fireplace" designs, and I had to explain to my agent and others why it's such a bad idea for the main TV. Lots of people don't think about any of this; instead, they say things like, "Oh look, how clever, that will save space." It's only later they realize the painful truth.


As a professional, I believe the placement and idea is quite compatible with the ergonomics and utility. If you have a personal preference, that is fine. And to tell your agent that YOU don't care for this particular design is YOUR perogative. 

A bit much for you to assume that "only later they realize the painful truth". Could be that later "they" are absolutely thrilled.



> I understand how tilting my computer monitor up a bit, so that it meets my gaze naturally, is useful and necessary. I fail to see how tilting a TV that is mounted too high downwards does anything remotely as useful. I guess it might help with all those recliners he'll need. And four feet is still too high.


Tilting up to meet your gaze...

Tilting down to meet your gaze...

Hmmmm.




> True, I'm assuming that a "TV over the fireplace" is the main TV in the house, and it should accommodate a variety of uses. You're missing the point about my Wii comment. I haven't owned a game console since my Atari 2600 back in the late 70's. I got the Wii on a lark, and it was while playing the games I mentioned that I realized how unplayable they would be if the TV were above the fireplace. As AtlanticWBConst mentioned earlier, the de facto standard position is "eye level when sitting", and other products, such as Wii, tacitly assume it will be followed. (You stand while playing tennis and bowling, and looking downwards a little ways is much preferable to looking up; no, it's not just preferable, it's ideal, while having to look up would be unacceptable.) When I was house hunting last year, I rejected those that put the TV over the fireplace based solely on my reason (1), the need for a "roomful of recliners". Getting the Wii months later made me appreciate my decision even more, albeit for a totally unforeseen reason.


You do realize that you're simply stating the same things over and over? Beating that "I assume" horse pretty well.

Sorry, but there really is no "de facto standard" when it comes to TV height. Why? Due to the fact that not all chairs/seating is of the same height.

The Wii game thing should give you a clue. Playing a Nitendo tennis game and looking down to a floor console TV would, in my opinion, be horrible, while the playing same game looking at a TV that is at, or slightly above, eye level (5'10" to my eye level standing) would be MUCH more perferable. And, for what it's worth, I have experienced both the former, and the latter.

How about leaving it as "to each his/her own"? Realizing that what you think of as a terrible idea, is something that is widely accepted. And maybe even not such a bad idea after all?


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## tima2381

ktkelly said:


> Tilting up to meet your gaze...
> 
> Tilting down to meet your gaze...
> 
> Hmmmm.


The fact that you're puzzled by that or think that they are somehow equivalent says it all.


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## ktkelly

I don't know what you think that says, but it really doesn't matter to me.

You may ask yourself why there are SOOO many TV's being placed over the fireplace these days? Why are most builders doing it that way?

In case you can't work it out, the answer is:





*Market demand.*


The days of a 27" B&W RCA with that big Oak console sitting on the floor are OVER.....:laughing:


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## tima2381

keyser soze said:


> I do not understand all of the wording but I think we agree. I don't want one there and neither do you. I don't think we need to argue about it anymore. The tilt mount at least makes the TV face directly at you instead of facing the wall above your head. My terminology was wrong. It does not change the viewing angle but it does improve perceived picture quality. I get a little too rushed when I reply sometimes (like right now, I get off work at 4:30).


If it doesn't change the vertical viewing angle, I don't understand what it does. I thought you were talking about something equivalent to a computer monitor tilt feature, which is typically used to rotate the monitor to face up a bit. This brings it into line with the natural tendency to gaze downward when seated at a desk and helps account for the top of the display being at or about eye level, at least if you're following ergonomic principles.

As for a TV mounted higher than optimal for your seating position, tilting this TV downward would help bring the display perpendicular to your line of sight, which is good, but how do you get your line of sight to the TV in the first place? Answer: You crane your neck, lay back in a recliner, or look out the top of your eyeballs, none of which is a desirable requirement.



keyser soze said:


> I agree horizontal centerline of the TV should be at eye level when seated. That's where I would hang it if it were my TV and my house.
> 
> Still I say that if someone wants a TV over their FP they should put the TV there. We have customers that get this setup to be "cool" [didn't say that I agree with it] while the TV's they actually spend time watching are lower. It won't hurt a thing. It will not overheat.
> 
> If someone wants to be _really_ cool they get a roll up painting over the TV that's over the FP. I'd rather spend that money on Crestron gear but if it weren't for those kinds of people I'd still be swinging a sledgehammer and running a torch to make ends meet.


Of course, it's up to the individual to determine the trade-offs that make sense for him. If I've expressed my preferences a little strongly, it's because I would have really, really hated having the TV mounted high, and I'm very glad I thought about this while house hunting. I hope I've explained some issues that might not be immediately obvious. I wince when I see someone craning their neck to view a TV mounted too high, or a computer monitor that's too high due to an elevated shelf integrated into their desk, or even to view a monitor that's positioned properly that they can't see because they don't have computer glasses and have to look through the reading area of their bifocals. For a lot of people, these bad ergonomics contribute to debilitating chronic neck pain, and I know from experience they may not have considered these things.


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## keyser soze

and post #12 in a row that has nothing to do with the OP's question!

FWIW I have my montitors up high so that I have to stretch my back upwards to avoid slouching. Oops just had to move mine up some more....

ktkelly, thanks, I though maybe I was a crazy b-hole there for a minute. I also though I was dumb for not being able to work out some of those sentences. I am just as guilty as anyone for making sentences (I love me some run-ons) that are hard to follow but at least they make sense after a _few_ readings.:jester:

I'll do some calculations tomorrow at work to see just how "ridiculous" the angles are when viewing a TV over a average FP. I bet they are within a few degrees of THX and SMPTE standards.

You know, I just thought to myself, "Self, why in God's name would they put those first 10-20 rown in a movie theater?" Given, you spend less time in a movie theater than you do in your living, great or rec room but still.

In the end some people actually consider decor more important than A/V. That's why my company can sell "invisible" speakers for exorbitant amounts of money that dont even sound that good. :shrug:


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## ktkelly

tima2381 said:


> As for a TV mounted higher than optimal for your seating position, tilting this TV downward would help bring the display perpendicular to your line of sight, which is good, but how do you get your line of sight to the TV in the first place? Answer: You crane your neck, lay back in a recliner, or look out the top of your eyeballs, none of which is a desirable requirement.


 
Now I see the problem.

*Looking out the top of your eyeballs? Craning your neck? *

That is some serious *over* *exaggeration.....:yes: *

I don't know about you, but if I lie back in a recliner, all I can see IS the ceiling. In that position I can very clearly see my toes, with some effort, but I cannot see my TV (big toes).....:laughing:


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## keyser soze

yeah when I sit back comfortably against the back of my couch I actually look up a little. Wait... The office chair puts my sight line at about 10- 15 degrees above level. 

Little busy for a few hours here but calculations are forthcoming.


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## keyser soze

ok, will this put this to bed? Probably not but here it is anyway.

calculate all you want, 36 degrees for THX and 30 for SMPTE

*If *my 9th grade geometry skills serve me correctly (very good chance they don't _edited to add my worthless memory caused a "traingle calculator" google search_ :icon_redface 

a TV that's 6 ft AFF (horizontal centerline of course) being viewed from 10 feet away (we'll say a 60" tv) yields a viewing angle of... wait for it..... *30.964* degrees!!!!!! :wipes sweat from forehead:

and while I was searching I found this nifty looking spreadsheet that I have not tested yet.

:throws both arms straight up in the air and walks away:


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## tima2381

keyser soze said:


> and post #12 in a row that has nothing to do with the OP's question!


 
When I made my initial post, the OP had already received several replies to his heat question, as well as three very brief suggestions to think about the viewing angle issue, one of which he apparently replied to with, "Ah! I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the tip!" (Hard to be sure in the absence of quoting.) If you are really concerned by the off-topicness, you could stop contributing to it with your endless replies.



keyser soze said:


> FWIW I have my montitors up high so that I have to stretch my back upwards to avoid slouching. Oops just had to move mine up some more....


As with your tilt mount that doesn't change the vertical viewing angle, I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds uncomfortable. You know, when I said last time, "If it doesn't change the vertical viewing angle, I don't understand what it does," that was a request for clarification. I even followed it by describing what I understand "tilt" to mean, so that you would know for sure what I was talking about.




keyser soze said:


> ktkelly, thanks, I though maybe I was a crazy b-hole there for a minute. I also though I was dumb for not being able to work out some of those sentences. I am just as guilty as anyone for making sentences (I love me some run-ons) that are hard to follow but at least they make sense after a _few_ readings.:jester:


I wonder, were you "a crazy b-hole" (whatever that means) when you said, "I do not understand all of the wording but I think we agree. I don't want one there and neither do you. I don't think we need to argue about it anymore." If you can find where I "argued" about this in my reply to you, I'd love to see it. I merely fleshed out my earlier comments, and the only thing for you to respond to was my statement that I didn't know what you meant by a tilt mount that doesn't change the vertical viewing angle. Sadly, you didn't respond to that, but instead replied with this guff, which is looking more and more like a reversal of your earlier statement.




keyser soze said:


> I'll do some calculations tomorrow at work to see just how "ridiculous" the angles are when viewing a TV over a average FP. I bet they are within a few degrees of THX and SMPTE standards.


The above-FP cabinets I was seeing in new construction were about five feet above floor level, and that is a crazy height to mount a TV that will be viewed from normal seating. I don't need to perform a calculation to know I'm right; all I have to do is look at the large painting hanging above my mantle and imagine my TV there or visit a friend who made the mistake I avoided.




keyser soze said:


> You know, I just thought to myself, "Self, why in God's name would they put those first 10-20 rown in a movie theater?" Given, you spend less time in a movie theater than you do in your living, great or rec room but still.


How random. A movie theater builds those seats because it knows that it can sometimes fill them with people who care more about the social experience than enjoying the film, and those people buy tickets and popcorn, which increases the theater's profit. As some sort of A/V tech, I hope you aspire to relevant goals for your clients.




keyser soze said:


> In the end some people actually consider decor more important than A/V. That's why my company can sell "invisible" speakers for exorbitant amounts of money that dont even sound that good. :shrug:


And what did I say last time? "Of course, it's up to the individual to determine the trade-offs that make sense for him." I hope you explain those trade-offs to your customers. If you save them from making a mistake, they will thank you for it, instead of cursing you later for expending the least effort possible and not making them aware of things they may not have thought of. Sadly, it appears you don't understand the trade-offs or can't discuss them without turning things into a personal attack.


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## tima2381

keyser soze said:


> ok, will this put this to bed? Probably not but here it is anyway.
> 
> calculate all you want, 36 degrees for THX and 30 for SMPTE
> 
> *If *my 9th grade geometry skills serve me correctly (very good chance they don't _edited to add my worthless memory caused a "traingle calculator" google search_ :icon_redface
> 
> a TV that's 6 ft AFF (horizontal centerline of course) being viewed from 10 feet away (we'll say a 60" tv) yields a viewing angle of... wait for it..... *30.964* degrees!!!!!! :wipes sweat from forehead:
> 
> and while I was searching I found this nifty looking spreadsheet that I have not tested yet.
> 
> :throws both arms straight up in the air and walks away:


Oh good grief, you were serious! For starters, the calculator you linked to is talking about horizontal viewing angle, not vertical; a good clue is that it has no field in which you can enter the viewing height. Now suppose you correct this huge, glaringly obvious mistake and find it "within spec". Do you really think it guarantees comfortable viewing? It does not! All it means is that it conforms to a set of parameters defined by some standard ("The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."), and you have to understand how those parameters were chosen, when they are valid, etc etc etc. For example, the page you linked to is talking about movie theaters, which are not a close approximation to most living rooms. If you don't understand all this, you cannot correctly interpret any results you are able to calculate. Finally, you will be considered a fool or worse if you tell someone who has to crane his neck to view his poorly positioned TV that your calculations prove that he doesn't.


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## ktkelly

tima2381 said:


> I don't need to perform a calculation to know I'm right


 
From this statement it becomes obvious that you won't let the facts get in the way.

If a room is so small that you're sitting very, very close to that fireplace, a TV over the fireplace wouldn't make much sense, while other rooms that allow for the seating to be further back, a TV over the fireplace makes perfect sense.

You would agree that the distance to the TV would alter the viewing angle wouldn't you?

Or is it that you object to the TV being over the fireplace in any circumstance?


*To the orginal poster:*

I would hang a painting at the height YOUR TV would be at, and sit in a chair at the distance YOUR room would allow for. Then YOU can make YOUR determination of whether or not this is a good idea.:thumbsup:


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## keyser soze

> the calculator you linked to is talking about horizontal viewing angle, not vertical


I didn't feel like spending my morning looking up all of that so I just grabbed the first thing I saw. So if you are laying on your side on the couch and the TV is mounted vertically it will be fine. :icon_redface: Whatever. 

Wasn't really worth _that_ much time. 

Whatever. The horse is still dead no matter which of us is beating it.

The only reason I started replying to your post is the blanket statement...



> Don't do it.


I should have stopped after post #12



> As some sort of A/V tech, I hope you aspire to relevant goals for your clients.


That's the problem, I'm no longer some sort of A/V tech, now I'm some sort of system designer. That gives me access to the internet and free time to waste. Before this I was some sort of Project Manager and some sort of Operations Manager. 

:turns and walks away: 
seriously, don't bother with me anymore, I'll be watching for new A/V threads instead of this... whatever this is.


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## tima2381

ktkelly said:


> tima2381 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to perform a calculation to know I'm right
> 
> 
> 
> From this statement it becomes obvious that you won't let the facts get in the way.
Click to expand...

This is what I actually said:

"I don't need to perform a calculation to know I'm right; all I have to do is look at the large painting hanging above my mantle and imagine my TV there or visit a friend who made the mistake I avoided."

The fact that you would clip the explanatory clause to construct your strawman further proves what I concluded from your first reply to me. I expanded on the calculation idea in my most recent reply:

"Finally, you will be considered a fool or worse if you tell someone who has to crane his neck to view his poorly positioned TV that your calculations prove that he doesn't."

Your deceitful clipping doesn't alter the truth of what I said.



ktkelly said:


> If a room is so small that you're sitting very, very close to that fireplace, a TV over the fireplace wouldn't make much sense, while other rooms that allow for the seating to be further back, a TV over the fireplace makes perfect sense.
> 
> You would agree that the distance to the TV would alter the viewing angle wouldn't you?


For the sake of argument, assume the center of the TV is 72" above the floor, and the seated "eye height" is roughly 40". (The TV height is a low estimate for the new construction I've seen around here, but I measured the eye height on my couch.) Per conventional wisdom, I'd prefer the center of the TV to be at my eye height or just below, which it is for my TV, which is placed on a typical Sony stand. Moving further and further away from the above-the-FP TV will make the vertical viewing angle less and less unacceptable as it compromises the viewing distance in the process. As an experiment, moving 25' away didn't help to an appreciable extent in the described scenario; I still have to crane my neck to view the center of the display, and 25' away is entirely too great a viewing distance. The only benefit is that the TV would clear the furniture, table lamps, etc.



ktkelly said:


> Or is it that you object to the TV being over the fireplace in any circumstance?


If it would compromise my viewing experience, I wouldn't want it.



ktkelly said:


> *To the orginal poster:*
> 
> I would hang a painting at the height YOUR TV would be at, and sit in a chair at the distance YOUR room would allow for. Then YOU can make YOUR determination of whether or not this is a good idea.:thumbsup:


I'd guess he has sense enough to figure that out for himself.


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## ktkelly

Okay, I've got it. You *can't* look up?



You use a stepladder to look at the painting mounted so very high on the wall, over the fireplace?

Take planes rides so you can look DOWN on the clouds?

Sit on the roof so you can look DIRECTLY at the trees?

Don't have, or need, a sunroof on your car since you can never look up?


As I see it, your world is just a *downer*....:001_tongue: 




On a serious note. As for that "deceitful clipping" thing?

I tend to clip that which is utterly useless. It's called cutting to the chase in some circles.....:yes:


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## kashimama

Wow, this thread has been busy! FWIW, the sofa will be about 12' from the fireplace (and there will also be bar height seating behind that). 

Oh, and the Wii will probably be on the upstairs TV.

Truly, the heat that has been generated on this thread has me just :laughing:. It's just a TV! If our necks start to hurt, we'll move it.


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## keyser soze

You will _love_ your new setup. Consider the tilt mount but try to look at one in a store before you buy it. Some people don't like that fact that it sticks out off of the wall more than a flat mount. If the viewers will be off to the side a lot, consider an articulating arm bracket. They are expensive but worth it if you need it. If you need an arm, consider a Chief. They make brackets that are built like tanks. Cheap brackets are, well, cheap. You get what you pay for in that department.

The arm will be even more "ugly" over the nice FP so if you don't need it, don't even bother.


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## ktkelly

That "sticking out from the fireplace" issue is why, especially on a new install, I recommend a recessed, or picture frame mounting solution.

If you're dealing with a surface that's built up over a plywood, or OSB base, you can cut out an opening approximately 2 1/2" larger than the outside dimensions of the panel, install a basic MDF enclosure that about 6 to 7 inches deep, and allow the mount and the panel to be flush with the fireplace surface.

If dealing with a surface where recessing is not an option, you can install a surround that has the required depth to hide the mount and panel.


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## tima2381

ktkelly said:


> On a serious note. As for that "deceitful clipping" thing?
> 
> I tend to clip that which is utterly useless. It's called cutting to the chase in some circles.....:yes:


Certainly, there are circles in which it's common to cut a sentence in half in order to misrepresent what someone said. It's still dishonest and despicable, and in this case unusually stupid, because you have in effect claimed that when reality doesn't agree with a mathematical formula, it is reality that is wrong. You are nothing if not predictable.


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## tima2381

kashimama said:


> Wow, this thread has been busy! FWIW, the sofa will be about 12' from the fireplace (and there will also be bar height seating behind that).
> 
> Oh, and the Wii will probably be on the upstairs TV.
> 
> Truly, the heat that has been generated on this thread has me just :laughing:. It's just a TV! If our necks start to hurt, we'll move it.


I have no idea how high the TV will be, but if it's much above seated eye level, and you plan on watching for more than a few minutes at a time, before you start running cables through walls or building recessed enclosures as suggested by others in this thread, I highly recommend taping a sheet of poster paper or something to the wall and living with it for a few days. The less easy it will be to reverse, the more you need to be sure it'll work. Of course, I'm not saying you should watch the poster paper for a couple of hours a day, but it may help to pretend it's your TV and note what it takes to view it comfortably as you go about your life. If it passes that test, then you will have made an informed decision and will be much more likely to be happy with the result, as opposed to guessing and being unpleasantly surprised by the result. For example, it might prove great for the bar seating but lousy for the sofa, and if the sofa is really important to you, well, you might want to think about something else.


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## tima2381

keyser soze said:


> I didn't feel like spending my morning looking up all of that so I just grabbed the first thing I saw. So if you are laying on your side on the couch and the TV is mounted vertically it will be fine. :icon_redface: Whatever.


No, that will lower your eye level and make things even worse. You really don't seem to understand what you're arguing about. Maybe it's time to stop grabbing randomly at straws and arguing endlessly.


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## tima2381

tima2381 said:


> No, that will lower your eye level and make things even worse.


To add to that, instead of "lying on your side", what might help is to lie on your back with your head propped up, but that's essentially the "roomful of recliners" principle I mentioned in my first post. It's not a desirable requirement, whatever form it takes.


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## keyser soze

> If dealing with a surface where recessing is not an option, you can install a surround that has the required depth to hide the mount and panel.


A little crown molding works well if the wall surface is smooth (and a recess isn't an option). If that isn't your style maybe four 1x4's with some cove or other trim to make it more simple than crown but still elegant. I haven't actually got to do trim like that around a TV since we always pawn that work off on the carpenters or cabinet makers but with a mitre box and a few hours time it wouldn't be too hard to do.

I think a tilt mount would look a little odd in a recess but the flat mount looks very nice like that.


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## triple7allstar

tima2381 said:


> Certainly, there are circles in which it's common to cut a sentence in half in order to misrepresent what someone said. It's still dishonest and despicable, and in this case unusually stupid, because you have in effect claimed that when reality doesn't agree with a mathematical formula, it is reality that is wrong. You are nothing if not predictable.


What mathematical formula are you referencing?


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## dat

*2 cents*

A friend of mine has a HDTV over his fireplace and says he loves it. No neck pains, and says he loves that it opens his room up more (one less peice of furniture). He recommends it. 
:thumbsup:


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## aaron_man

For me, it really is not a good idea. It'd be too hot for the t.v if placed above your fireplace. Try putting it somewhere where your comfortable watching it .


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## SoulSur4

Not to get off the topic (or maybe back on). I am definitely going to mount a 52" (or maybe 65") LCD to my fireplace - it's brick, relatively thin, older bricks with fairly competent mortar. Originally I was going to drill into the brick, but they are only about 2.5" high and I would have to hit them dead center to avoid edges and possible cracking. So while the mortar is recessed, and I will need to use spacers, I think I'm going that route. My question is what type of bolts/anchors to use. Some people have told me to use self-tapping (Tapcon) bolts or expanding bolts that do not fully penetrate the mortar to the other side (flue) I was thinking butterfly anchors and going all the way through may be more reliable, since the depth of the brick looks to be less than 4". any thoughts here? By the way you can tape a thermometer to the brick about 48" up from the hearth, get a roaring fire going, and see if the heat from the brick exceeds 90F, which is the typical limit for most manufacturers when the set is on.


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## Sir MixAlot

I was going to put my 51" Sony Plasma over my fireplace. But I thought that smoke would get on the front of it. So I didn't risk it. 
Does anyone that has one over their fireplace have problems w/ the smoke issue?


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## MKDothan

I lowered the mantle and ran 2" conduit through the surround to the baseboard. This allowed me to drop any cable (25 ft HDMI) and run it between the floor and the base board covered by 1/4 round. Located surge protected outlet & catv in box behind TV. If you don't want TV on the mantle a picture or mirror covers the box. Components in bookcase are on opposite wall hid speaker wires behind crown molding. Still have not solved the wii problem. The sensor bar would need a 25ft cable.


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## TheStoneExpert

*TV on Fireplace Brick, Stone or Drywall*

Our business involves covering a lot of brick and drywall fireplaces with stone veneer and adding TV's over the firebox. In the last six years we have been doing this, we have not had one issue..

*Heat*: A correctly installed masonry or prefab firebox is not going to give off enough heat to damage the TV. You can always start a fire and hold a thermometer above the firebox to check the temperature.

*Smoke:* If the fireplace is properly ventilated smoke will not be an issue for the TV on the fireplace.

*Height:* That is a personal decision, but with the swivel brackets for tilt, you can get a very comfortable viewing area. Use blue tape to mark out the proposed area for the fireplace and see if you like it. Pretty typically the top of the TV is no higher than 7'-7'6" as measured from the floor.

*Mantel:* On most fireplaces we install, we suggest a customer not add a mantel. The sole reason being the combination of the wood mantel and the TV make things too crowded.

For a recent post on our blog about TVs and fireplaces look at the following link.
http://northstarstone.blogspot.com/search/label/Stone%20Fireplace%20with%20TV

If you would like to look at many finished project pictures with stone fireplaces and TV's look at the following link.
http://www.northstarstone.biz/fireplace-pictures-with-tv.htm


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## sparks1032

Interesting thread I just pulled my 55 inch flat screen off our fireplace and put it back on the wall above the piece of furniture we were trying to replace. 

So put a piece of cardboard up think where the cables and how the power to the tv is going to get ran so you don't pull the tv off the fireplace!


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