# Best primer? Gripper, 1-2-3, Insl-x Stix



## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

Best primer? Gripper, 1-2-3, Insl-x Stix

My BM dealer gave me Insl-x Stix primer for my cabinet painting, and I am about out. There still is a bunch of interior trim to paint left on my house, this is old trim with varnish on top. Prep includes washing with soap, sanding.

Is Stix the way to go or can I use The Gripper which I still have some on hand. 

thanks


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Gripper is just fine.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

thanks.

Insl-x Stix worked very well on the cabinets, the dealer thought this would be bullet proof going over old sanded varnish. Gripper and 1-2-3 have also impressed me a bunch with no failure on my home remodel.

What primers do you all like to use?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

paint77 said:


> thanks.
> 
> Insl-x Stix worked very well on the cabinets, the dealer thought this would be bullet proof going over old sanded varnish. Gripper and 1-2-3 have also impressed me a bunch with no failure on my home remodel.
> 
> What primers do you all like to use?


 I generally use Seal Grip because I buy my paint at PPG. The BM store is 35 miles away and I don't go in Home Depot. I will get 123 sometimes from Lowes if I cannot readily get to the PPG store.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

There are 3 paint stores that I can use: SW, BM and PPG. Also Menards, Lowes and HD carry the basic primers. For me it is about basic prep and the right primer and then it tends to be more down hill, if I get the prep right. Gripper and 1-2-3 are affordable, but I need to know when not to use them. 

For average work I am still trying to decide between Gripper and 1-2-3. Would Seal Grip be a better primer?


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## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

"Best primer" is determined by what you're putting it on.

Finished, painted wood with varnish? First step is a "rinse" with TSP. You need that to provide a 'tooth' for the new paint to grab. You can't do that nearly as well with sandpaper - TSP will get into every nook.

Then ... no primer needed, unless there's a massive color change. Finish paint will adhere just fine to a previously finished surface.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

KarenStein said:


> "Best primer" is determined by what you're putting it on.
> 
> Finished, painted wood with varnish? First step is a "rinse" with TSP. You need that to provide a 'tooth' for the new paint to grab. You can't do that nearly as well with sandpaper - TSP will get into every nook.
> 
> Then ... no primer needed, unless there's a massive color change. Finish paint will adhere just fine to a previously finished surface.


Well, as one who is getting paid to do the job right, I would not take the chance and not prime, but maybe that's just me.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

paint77 said:


> There are 3 paint stores that I can use: SW, BM and PPG. Also Menards, Lowes and HD carry the basic primers. For me it is about basic prep and the right primer and then it tends to be more down hill, if I get the prep right. Gripper and 1-2-3 are affordable, but I need to know when not to use them.
> 
> For average work I am still trying to decide between Gripper and 1-2-3. Would Seal Grip be a better primer?


Better? Probably not, it's just more convenient for me.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

chrisn said:


> Well, as one who is getting paid to do the job right, I would not take the chance and not prime, but maybe that's just me.


Gotta agree. The Big Box told me that the paint/primer paints were all that was needed, after checking it out, well I think it best to just prime.



KarenStein said:


> Finished, painted wood with varnish? First step is a "rinse" with TSP. You need that to provide a 'tooth' for the new paint to grab. You can't do that nearly as well with sandpaper - TSP will get into every nook.


Zinnser told me to be careful with TSP, any residue left behind will inhibit their primer and advised a liquid detergent cleaner instead. If TSP is used make sure it is well rinsed.


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## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

Rinsing TSP off is part of the prep - it's an 'etch,' not a 'paint' 

The existing paint / varnish, combined with TSP providing the necessary roughness, is your 'primer.'

Look at it this way: If you decide to do a second finish coat, will you prime again? Of course not. Well, you already have a layer of paint down, and it sounds like it's adhering just fine.

Now, certain paints and stains can 'bleed' though certain other paints. Again, the existing varnish will keep that from happening.

I will agree on one point raised ... I also doubt the promises of the 'combined' paints.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

KarenStein said:


> Rinsing TSP off is part of the prep - it's an 'etch,' not a 'paint'
> 
> The existing paint / varnish, combined with TSP providing the necessary roughness, is your 'primer.'
> 
> I will agree on one point raised ... I also doubt the promises of the 'combined' paints.



Karen i get the point.

The Zinnser tech support gets calls about paint failure, sometimes it boils down to people do not completely rinse off TSP and that will leave a powder residue which causes their primer to not adhere properly.

So his advise is just don't use it and that problem is done. He says a good liquid detergent does the same thing and then sand. 

If people would completely rinse ALL the TSP off, then he has no problem with it. 

Apparently there is a problem with DIY people cleaning properly, so they take the safe way out and recommend against using TSP.

Paint/primer...well some day that may be a reality. In the mean time, The Gripper is affordable.


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## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

Seems whenever they make things 'idiot proof,' someone comes out with a better idiot ....

"Gee, I failed to follow the instructions, the product failed, so the product must be bad." Ugh.


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

paint77 said:


> Karen i get the point.
> 
> The Zinnser tech support gets calls about paint failure, sometimes it boils down to people do not completely rinse off TSP and that will leave a powder residue which causes their primer to not adhere properly.
> 
> ...


The same company that makes TSP also makes DirtX which has been suggested many painters and it "claimes", no rinse needed.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

KarenStein said:


> Seems whenever they make things 'idiot proof,' someone comes out with a better idiot ....
> 
> "Gee, I failed to follow the instructions, the product failed, so the product must be bad." Ugh.


Basically.

He said TSP leaves a coating residue and they have had too many problems with it. I may call another primer co. and see what they say. For years TSP has been the recommendation though.



wptski said:


> The same company that makes TSP also makes DirtX which has been suggested many painters and it "claimes", no rinse needed.


That's a stretch. The tech does claim that a liquid cleaner in water does rinse better though. 

Many years ago I went to a Big Box and he advised me to use their premium paint claiming that no prep was needed, paint over dirt or whatever...oh the good ole days. :biggrin2:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

paint77 said:


> Basically.
> 
> He said TSP leaves a coating residue and they have had too many problems with it. I may call another primer co. and see what they say. For years TSP has been the recommendation though.
> 
> ...


I can take a wild guess as to what brand that was:whistling2:


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## wptski (Sep 19, 2008)

paint77 said:


> Basically.
> That's a stretch. The tech does claim that a liquid cleaner in water does rinse better though.
> 
> Many years ago I went to a Big Box and he advised me to use their premium paint claiming that no prep was needed, paint over dirt or whatever...oh the good ole days. :biggrin2:


TSP and DirtEx are in powder form. I just sprayed over some exterior metal that was enamel as a test for a future larger job. Used liquid sanding solution, DirtEx, Zinnser 1-2-3 and a water based acrylic.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

LOL :biggrin2:

Well I would rather not say, ... at the time it sounded great and he said his other job was a painter. Anyway, I just needed some white paint for the exterior and went ahead.

Well I found out he was wrong. It wasn't until working on the interior that it seemed that there was more to painting than finding the right color at the Big Box. 

The internet and the paint techs of SW, BM etc have helped bunches. I have spent hours just going through pages of this paint forum. Proper prep, good equipment, correct technique, and great paint seem to be most of the answer. 

Finding some good brushes and cleaning them have helped bunches too. Wooster has a collection of 3 brushes and they suit me just fine. SW loaded me up with various rollers, I like a small roller at times over a brush. 

Still haven't decided what is best though, The Gripper seems to cover/grip better over 1-2-3... and Stix seems to be better than both for cabinets and shelves.

???


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

If you are going to use BM paint, then I would go with the Stix.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

chrisn said:


> If you are going to use BM paint, then I would go with the Stix.


I would follow Chris's advice since you will be using BM paints.

I'm an SW guy and like most of their primers, but, for the money and what it can do, 1-2-3 is hard to beat. I've used it as a bonding primer on varnished woodwork and cabinets, as a drywall primer, and as an exterior primer on many substrates. It literally sticks to glass. Very hard to beat its versatility and at $20 per gallon, it's hard to go wrong with it.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

chrisn said:


> If you are going to use BM paint, then I would go with the Stix.


Sometimes I use BM paint and other times I use SW when on sale. The BM dealer felt that Stix was far superior to The Gripper when used on previously varnished old cabinets.

She was right and we used Advance as a top coat. Stix is double the price, so I use that on my hardest used wood work that takes a beating.



Gymschu said:


> I would follow Chris's advice since you will be using BM paints.
> 
> I'm an SW guy and like most of their primers, but, for the money and what it can do, 1-2-3 is hard to beat. I've used it as a bonding primer on varnished woodwork and cabinets, as a drywall primer, and as an exterior primer on many substrates. It literally sticks to glass. Very hard to beat its versatility and at $20 per gallon, it's hard to go wrong with it.


SW is what I mostly use because of their 40% sales once a month. Never have used their primer though, they told me the primer doesn't go on sale.

At less than $20 per gallon over here for Zinnser, the price is right. Just finished up a gallon and no failure with it. It seems that the Gripper covers a little better, but more important to me is the primer's paint gripping power. Very hard to decide between Gripper and 1-2-3.


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