# Anti Oxidant Paste on Aluminum Service Conductors



## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

We are in the process of selling our home and the buyers inspector informed us that we need to apply anti-oxidant paste to the aluminum service conductors.

I know next to nothing about electricity, so I called the local handyman (John Moore) as they provide free quotes. 

The technician opened up the box and told me that the two main wires (or groups of wires) were too short and not installed correctly. Instead of wrapping all around the the perimeter of the box, which would provide easy access to the where he needs to apply the paste, the instead went directly up and over to this area, which blocked him from where he needed to apply the paste.

Long story short, he said it would cost $400 to do this. He said that he would rather just run new copper wire, which would cost the same amount.

I have another electrician coming today, but just wondering what to expect.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

I would not be fixing anything that the "buyers" inspector told you unless it was a deal breaker for the sale.
Imho.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

you can also set say, a 200$ allowance for the buyer to fix any issues.

This would allow you to not have to worry about any issues arising from the "fix"


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

They are wanting you to do everything, so that they do not have to. The buyer's inspector like most is an idiot. The majority, if they can get up in the morning and tie their shoelaces.

This market with the amount of inventory that is out there, has brought out the worse of the worse in idiots becoming home inspectors.


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> They are wanting you to do everything, so that they do not have to. The buyer's inspector like most is an idiot. The majority, if they can get up in the morning and tie their shoelaces.
> 
> This market with the amount of inventory that is out there, has brought out the worse of the worse in idiots becoming home inspectors.


Exactly. Our home had been on the market for eight months before we received our first offer. We really didn't have a lot of power in the negotiations. Their list of repairs was pretty minimal compared to what the inspector actually found, so we didn't put up much of a fight. 

I'm really hoping that someone can tell me what I should expect to pay for this repair as I am not looking to spend an arm and a leg on these repairs.


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## michaelcherr (Nov 10, 2010)

The buyers inspector doesn't tell you what to do.
The buyers inspector informs the buyer of the condition of the house, and the buyer may or may not ask you to make repairs.
Anything the inspector said to a seller can be ignored if you wish unless you are trying to close super quick and want to be overly proactive.
That being said, go buy a tube of the goo that they normally put on aluminum connectors to prevent corrosion.
Don't disconnect anything, just slather some on there and call it done.
Five minutes, five dollars, save your battles with the buyer/inspection for real issues.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Let the guy that is coming for the estimate know that you are looking for the lowest cost fix because you are selling.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

It sounds like the tech is trying to fatten the bill. If the wires are so short that they are barely in the lugs I can understand but this IS a working panel. Pics would be a big help.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Pictures would help.
There is no NEC requirment to install no loc.


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## michaelcherr (Nov 10, 2010)

Home inspectors don't inspect to code.
They inspect to a criteria that is based on code, but they will flag many code compliant things and not care about other non code compliant issues.


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

OK, I have attached my 3rd grade version of what I recall everything looking like. I will try and snap a picture when I get home from work this afternoon.

The green are the two major cables coming into the box from the utility box. As you can see, they take the shortest path to the converter (blue box), which according to the electrician prevents them from accessing the converter. 

The red is the so-called path that he said they should take, which would allow them to access the converter.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Without this paste on aluminum wires, the wires can oxidize, cause a poor electrical connection, begin a hot/cold cycle at the connections, work themselves loose, then you no longer have one of those connections and can have severe electrical problems. Can also damage electrical gizmos.

The right way to do this is to have the electric company remove power, remove the electric meter, disconnect the wires at the meter base and main panel (subpanel too if you have one), wire brush on the paste, then reinstall and retorque the lugs to specs.

So to protect yourself from potential liability (pay for future damaged appliances) you should have a receipt from a_ licensed_ electrician that the meter and main panel wires were removed, paste applied, then reinstalled and torqued to box/panel manufacturer specifications. Then you are covered.

Another way to protect yourself is to note the problem on the disclosure of known problems with the house. Get an estimate to do this, then lower your price that amount and let the home buyer have the problem fixed. (If they are willing to do that.)

If you do that, it is possible the home buyer might call the same electrician. And if that electrician told you other work was needed (like the first guy said), then he will probably tell them you were told this. If that additional work is not listed on your disclosure of known problems, you could find yourself footing the bill after the house is sold!

Also once you get to this point in a house sale, they want to see the work done by licensed contractors only. Not a handyman.

Some of these things get silly, but you are best to protect yourself from future liability. If the work was done by a licensed contractor and that person says everything is ok, then "to your knowledge" the problem was properly fixed - you are off the hook for any future problems.

It is if they can prove you knew there was a problem and did not tell the home buyer.


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

Also, he was concerned that the breaker for the my dryer was tripped (I believe it was two 110-breakers as my dryer has a 220 outlet).

However, we have a gas dryer and have never used the 220 outlet...ever. Is is it possible that the builder just left this switch set to off since it is a gas dryer and the 220 was not needed or being used? For all I know it has been "tripped" forever.

The guy was telling me that it was a big concern and that he needed to figure out why it was tripped, which of course would have led to him ripping out drywall and some huge additional costs

I told him sorry, but it was not on the inspection report and I could care less about it as it is no longer my problem. 

Is my thinking on this reasonable? It was just always left "off"?


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

Billy_Bob said:


> Without this paste on aluminum wires, the wires can oxidize, cause a poor electrical connection, begin a hot/cold cycle at the connections, work themselves loose, then you no longer have one of those connections and can have severe electrical problems. Can also damage electrical gizmos.
> 
> The right way to do this is to have the electric company remove power, remove the electric meter, disconnect the wires at the meter base and main panel (subpanel too if you have one), wire brush on the paste, then reinstall and retorque the lugs to specs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. Any idea of what the cost of this would be?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Thanks for the insight. Any idea of what the cost of this would be?


Well around here it is $100 just for anyone to show up and knock on your door.

So far as the work is concerned, this is easy stuff to do. Should not take more than 1/2 hour...

So I would say $200 to $400.

P.S. Tell the electrician you are selling the house and just need this work done. (Hopefully he will not tell you about anything else which needs to be done.  )


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

And if they can't find any problems they make up stuff and just write it down to make it look like they did something. Never mind the stuff they missed.


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## silversport (Feb 4, 2012)

Some of you guys talk like you've never bought or sold a house. 

If were the OP, I would get three quotes total -- either select one to fix the issue (as requested by the buyer in writing -- nothing more) or offer to reduce the sales price by the lowest estimate (and provide the estimate to the buyer). It's the only way to deal with this unless you're prepared to let the buyer walk away over a few hundred dollars....


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

First, as far as removal of the wires and how they are routed, if they were installed correctly, they can be removed. Second, just because an inspector doesn't see excess paste around the conductors doesn't mean it wasn't applied. 

And third, I'll repeat what jbfan said, there is NO requirement by the NEC to apply anti-oxidant paste.


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

silversport said:


> Some of you guys talk like you've never bought or sold a house.
> 
> If were the OP, I would get three quotes total -- either select one to fix the issue (as requested by the buyer in writing -- nothing more) or offer to reduce the sales price by the lowest estimate (and provide the estimate to the buyer). It's the only way to deal with this unless you're prepared to let the buyer walk away over a few hundred dollars....


You are definitely right as far as the sale goes. The hassle of having our house on the market for another 2 or 3 months isn't worth a few hundred $.

However, with the exception of the company that already showed up, everyone else has a service charge of $50-$75..so to get three estimates, I am already out $100-$200. The free guys said it was $400. If the next guy is within that price, I guess I will just pull the trigger (or be out $60 for the service call).


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Also, he was concerned that the breaker for the my dryer was tripped (I believe it was two 110-breakers as my dryer has a 220 outlet).


Now that you "know" about this, have the electrician check it to be sure it is working ok. He could just turn on the breaker and measure the voltage.

Then you would "know" it was working ok.

If there is a problem with it, note it on the disclosure form.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Also, he was concerned that the breaker for the my dryer was tripped (I believe it was two 110-breakers as my dryer has a 220 outlet).
> 
> However, we have a gas dryer and have never used the 220 outlet...ever. Is is it possible that the builder just left this switch set to off since it is a gas dryer and the 220 was not needed or being used? For all I know it has been "tripped" forever.
> 
> ...


Absolutely!

At one time the previous owners may have had an electric dryer and that's why its there. Its fine sitting there in the off position.
He should have asked if you were haveing problems with your dryer BEFORE suggesting he needed to break into walls!


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

sublime2 said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> At one time the previous owners may have had an electric dryer and that's why its there. Its fine sitting there in the off position.
> He should have asked if you were haveing problems with your dryer BEFORE suggesting he needed to break into walls!


We are the original owners, but have only had a gas dryer. We are having no problems with our dryer, but again it is not using the 220.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Also, he was concerned that the breaker for the my dryer was tripped (I believe it was two 110-breakers as my dryer has a 220 outlet).
> 
> However, we have a gas dryer and have never used the 220 outlet...ever. Is is it possible that the builder just left this switch set to off since it is a gas dryer and the 220 was not needed or being used? For all I know it has been "tripped" forever.
> 
> ...


There is a big difference between being "Tripped" and being "Off"


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

a7ecorsair said:


> There is a big difference between being "Tripped" and being "Off"


Right, but I don't believe that there is anyway he could have know just by looking at the panel, right?

And for that breaker to have tripped, wouldn't something have had to have been plugged in on the other end of it to draw electricity in order to trip it?


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Billy_Bob said:


> If you do that, it is possible the home buyer might call the same electrician. And if that electrician told you other work was needed (like the first guy said), then he will probably tell them you were told this. If that additional work is not listed on your disclosure of known problems, you could find yourself footing the bill after the house is sold!.


Never happen! 
Would be ones word against the other.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

HouseHelper said:


> First, as far as removal of the wires and how they are routed, if they were installed correctly, they can be removed. Second, just because an inspector doesn't see excess paste around the conductors doesn't mean it wasn't applied.
> 
> And third, I'll repeat what jbfan said, there is NO requirement by the NEC to apply anti-oxidant paste.


Well once a home inspector finds this stuff, the seller is pretty much on the hook to do something about it. You are a "sitting duck" with this stuff.

I sold my dad's house and a home inspector found a small 25 year old mold spot. (There was a leak there 25 years ago which was fixed.) A spray of bleach would have done the trick if anyone was worried about it...

But I was stuck having to pay for an "environmental clean-up" for $2k. Sectioned off area, workers with face masks, air sampling, the whole works! (They did not find any live mold, but killed it anyway...)

What can you do?


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Right, but I don't believe that there is anyway he could have know just by looking at the panel, right?
> 
> And for that breaker to have tripped, wouldn't something have had to have been plugged in on the other end of it to draw electricity in order to trip it?


Yes he would know. When a breaker trips the switch sits in the middle of the breaker.when off it is all the way to one side depending on a left or right breaker.
As for what its powering,yes if it were in fact tripped,something would be "off" in your house.


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

Billy_Bob said:


> Without this paste on aluminum wires, the wires can oxidize, cause a poor electrical connection, begin a hot/cold cycle at the connections, work themselves loose, then you no longer have one of those connections and can have severe electrical problems. Can also damage electrical gizmos.
> 
> The right way to do this is to have the electric company remove power, remove the electric meter, disconnect the wires at the meter base and main panel (subpanel too if you have one), wire brush on the paste, then reinstall and retorque the lugs to specs.
> 
> ...



Electrician just showed up and called me. This is exactly what he is going to do (both sides of the connections). They have a straight-forward pricing policy. $252.00 out the door (as long as you have them complete the work, they waive the service call fee). $150.00 cheaper than the other guys and he didn't complain about the wires being too short


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## silversport (Feb 4, 2012)

Trevytrev11 said:


> However, with the exception of the company that already showed up, everyone else has a service charge of $50-$75..so to get three estimates, I am already out $100-$200. The free guys said it was $400. If the next guy is within that price, I guess I will just pull the trigger (or be out $60 for the service call).


Maybe it's different in other areas but around here, I can think of several electrical contractors that give free estimates for non-emergency work. Plumbers and HVAC techs, however, I've never met one that won't charge just to pull up to the house.....


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## silversport (Feb 4, 2012)

Trevytrev11 said:


> Electrician just showed up and called me. This is exactly what he is going to do (both sides of the connections). They have a straight-forward pricing policy. $252.00 out the door (as long as you have them complete the work, they waive the service call fee). $150.00 cheaper than the other guys and he didn't complain about the wires being too short


Glad it worked out for you. Perfect example of why multiple quotes are so important; even for the little jobs.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

michaelcherr said:


> That being said, go buy a tube of the goo that they normally put on aluminum connectors to prevent corrosion.
> *Don't disconnect anything, just slather some on there and call it done.*
> Five minutes, five dollars, save your battles with the buyer/inspection for real issues.


Not the best advice to tell a person who, upfront, said he knows next to nothing about electricity. He touches the wrong part in that box and he potentialy can take the full power co line amperage thru his body. The best advice is, fortunatly, the one he chose and that is to get someone in there that knows what he/she is doing


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

danpik said:


> Not the best advice to tell a person who, upfront, said he knows next to nothing about electricity. He touches the wrong part in that box and he potentialy can take the full power co line amperage thru his body. The best advice is, fortunatly, the one he chose and that is to get someone in there that knows what he/she is doing


Agreed!


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## Trevytrev11 (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I just signed up today, but it seems like there are a good group of people here who are more than willing to help out and offer advice to those in need. 

Thanks again.


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