# Bleeding my heating system 1-2-3



## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

Hi,

Just wondering is there a "preferred" or "right" way of bleeding my hydronic heating system?

I see valves on the supply end, and I could also bleed from my return side (but if I do that I bleed the whole system).

Also, is the proper way to shut off the supply and/or the return?

Thanks in advance!

ben


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

I can help with your problem but have a couple of questions first.What presure is your boiler at curently and does it have a presure reducing valve on the water supply line,or due you have to fill it manualy.


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

The pressure is at 25psi. And yes, it does have a pressure reducing valve


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Are your boiler drains on the supply or return lines. Isthere shut offs on supplys and returns. A picture sure would help. Your presure should be around 15 psi .Is your expansion tank full of water?


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

i'll post a picture in the next post. however, I actually removed all my expansion tanks in the hope of reducing my electric bill. i had another post in which i was asking about glowcore. do you think the removal of my expansion tanks make a difference?


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Yes that is most likely why you are running at 25 psi. Check your presure reducing valve it will say 15 psi. Your t&p valve will open up at 30 psi. When you heat up the water it expands this is why you need the expansion tank. Did you replace your glowcore aka glowlesscore:laughing:


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi bwoo

If you go to page #9 and find the post Bleeding air-Hot water system by Dragon I laid out some pretty specific details in this one. If you need any help past that let us know. If you can get a guy by the name of mdshunk involved he is very intelligent. I have not seen him on here for a while though. Let us know and we will help you through this.

Good luck 
Rusty


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

no i didn't replace them. instead, i took them out of action. i'm posting two diagrams.. 

This first one i call 2006








And this second one i call 2007








All I did was take the glowcores out of action. Based on this, do you still recommend that I drop the PSI to 15?

My major issue is this.. on the 4th floor (Zone 4), i can get the supply to be really really hot, but on the return side (at the air handler), it is only luke warm. 

Do you recommend that I put the glowcores back into action?


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

#CARRIERMAN,
Thanks for the tip. It's a long post so I've printed it out to read. vbmenu_register("postmenu_28390", true);


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

trollmastergeneral and #CARRIERMAN,

do you guys work as professional HVAC engineers? if so, which geographies do you cover?

b


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

just realized something - *trollmastergeneral*, when you mean expansion tank, you're referring to my glowcores right?


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

as for my boiler, it's a Laars Endurance model EBP which is described by Laars as:



> This appliance is a low pressure, direct
> vent, hot water boiler that provides priority domestic
> hot water on demand as well as hydronic space
> heating. The unit has a twenty gallon tank which holds
> ...


So, do I still need the glowcores?


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

bwoo said:


> trollmastergeneral and #CARRIERMAN,
> 
> do you guys work as professional HVAC engineers? if so, which geographies do you cover?
> 
> b


 
I am not a engineer but I am a licensed contractor in michigan.I specialize in service because I love service.I love boilers and steam heat because it is a specialty item not many people know how to repair these systems. I have been in HVACR since 1987.I have owned my own buisness for the last 11 years ago. I am not against home owners who need help either.


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

I see that zone 4 has a pump is this the zone is not working. Which zone is not working. Is this the only zone not working?


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

This is getting a little confusing. What is the original complaint that made you want to bleed the system.:huh:


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi bwoo

The expansion tank will be attached at some point to the boiler. It should be roughly 24" x 12" and will have either a 1/2" or 3/4" nipple on one end and a valve core on the other.

Rusty


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

yes, zone 4 is the problem zone


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

the original "complaint" was actually just a general inquiry as to the best way of bleeding a hydronic system. It has now developed into a question about why zone 4 is not working properly.

in zone 4 specifically, right at the air handler, i can feel a very very hot supply line. the hot water then goes through a series of i think they're called "coils", and on the return side, it is luke warm. i'm wondering if you know what might be causing this. 

i have always been advised in the past, that if anything doesn't work properly, bleed the system, but the system has been bled a lot and the zone 4 problem has not changed!

b


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

I did see on your diagram that zone 4 had a pump most likely this pump is not working. With this said I would check the pump for power and go from there.


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

the zone 4 pump is working. there is a switch on it, and i've turned it off and on and i can hear water stop and start...


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi bwoo

It sounds like you may have a valve sticking in zone #4 or one of the actuator motors is bad. If you look on top of the valve you will generally see a white pod with two wires coming out of it. This is your actuator motor. On the bottom of the motor will be a brass ring with diamond shaped bumps on it. Grab this ring and turn it counter clockwise carefully. Once you have the motor unscrewed, lay it to the side. The stem you should see sticking up once you remove the motor is the valve actuator pin. Take some light oil like sewing machine oil and drip around this shaft. Take a flat screwdriver and press the pin up and down carefully and work the oil into it. Reinstall the motor section and see if it works. If not you may need new motor, but you will need to do some voltage testing before you determine motor is bad.

Good luck
Rusty


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

#CARRIERMAN,

The zone 4 "motor" is a circulator on the supply side. there is a ball valve just before the circulator, then there is a tap/faucet to bleed that area, with a device that allows steam to blow out the top (don't know what it's called), then another ball valve and then it goes into the air handler.. on the way out, there is another ball valve there.

i just can't understand why the supply would be blisteringly hot, and the return luke warm!


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

great call carierman I would also see if there is a bleeder buy the coil incase it is air locked.


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi bwoo

Take a look at what trollmaster suggested. You may also have a bad pump. I wasnt quite sure how your system was set up. It sounds like they are using Taco cartridge pumps. These are tough little pumps, and are easy to rebuild. Armstrong and the other maufacturers are very similar. Let us know if we can help further.

Rusty


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

#CARRIERMAN said:


> Hi bwoo
> 
> Take a look at what trollmaster suggested. You may also have a bad pump. I wasnt quite sure how your system was set up. It sounds like they are using Taco cartridge pumps. These are tough little pumps, and are easy to rebuild. Armstrong and the other maufacturers are very similar. Let us know if we can help further.
> 
> Rusty


 
Rember just because it feels like the motor is on doesnt mean it is circulating, but definitly make sure zone valve is opening first.


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## bwoo (Dec 7, 2006)

OK.. i'll check again.. what I did to try and test the pump was actually turn the pump off, and waited a few minutes and turned it back on... i heard water moving at that point.. also, on either side of the circulator, the water is hot.. it's only after it comes out of the air handler that it is luke warm (sorry i can't give more info)


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