# Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house



## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Hello, I'd like advice on my attached image of the wiring plan. I have a 1 story house that has 200 amp service, but all of the outlets are two wire with no grounding wire. Metal boxes but paper romex so it's ungrounded.

I'm starting this project just to fix all the outlets first, and eventually (at a much later date), I'll fix the wiring in the walls to the lights... for now, I'm just updating the outlets & switches so that they are grounded.

I've run low-voltage cabling before, and I know the basics (nothing stabled to the bottom of joists, no as-the-crow flies -- all 90 degree angles). For ease of identifying I put double lines for the main home runs back to the box, and the rest are at angles so I can see it on this map. I plan on running 12/2 for most of the home runs, a couple runs of 12/3 between certain outlets, and a couple of "dedicated ground" outlets for computers that will also use 12/3.

My question is I get confused when it comes to the kitchen & outdoor runs. How do I run the wiring for the garbage disposal, oven, and dishwasher? I haven't had problems with any of them, and I'm hoping to not have to wire the oven (I counted it as 2 runs on a circuit). Also, how do I run cable to the thermostat & the doorbell (or do these even need to be grounded?)

Please review and let me know what you think!

oh, Key is D is Duplex outlet; S is Switch; L is Light or Fan/Light Combo
in the Kitchen, GD is Garbage Disposal, DWS is Dishwasher
in the Hallway, TH is THermostat, DR is DooR bell


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## steve1234 (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm not a pro, just a lowly homeowner, but i would suggest you consult an electrician. I'm not sure I completely understand the layout, but what i think I'm looking at doesn't look right (way too many "devices" on the kitchen circuit, bathrooms need dedicated runs, GFI's not identified, and I believe the 2008 NEC requires Arc Fault protection almost everywhere now). Plus the code defines some requirements for lights vs outlets and what can and can't be on the same circuits....especially for bathrooms and kitchens. At a minimum, you should check out the applicable version of the residential NEC. You're looking at a pretty big project to tackle with what appears to be a somewhat limited knowledge of the subject. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you can't learn it and do it, but I am suggesting you do some additional research before starting.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Some points you need to know. There are many more
Kitchen counter receptacle must be 20 amp GFCI. Nothing else can be on those circuits.
Bathroom must have a 20 amp circuit to serve the receptacles. Only other thing within the bathroom can be on this circuit.
Receptacle in bedrooms and living room must follow the 6/12 rule. There must be a receptacle within 6 feet of a door and then every 12 feet after that as measure along a wall. There can be more if you want. This is the minimum.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Your diagram is kind of hard to read
Where are you located? Local codes can vary
I'd put all the lights on one circuit instead of adding them onto each rooms circuit
Kitchen needs 2 dedicated small appliance circuits, no lights, GFCI protected
Dishwasher is usually dedicated, built in micriwave is
What kind of oven ? Gas, electric ?

Bathroom requires a dedicated 20a circuit
It can include lights, circuit if just for the bathroom
I prefer to have bath lights & fan on another lighting circuit as that is where hair dryers are used

Dining room also requires a dedicated 20a

Outside is also GFCI protected - you can't tap off any dedicated room circuit

Thermostat is wired to the HVAC unit, no direct 120v power on any that I have seen

Doorbell has a specific setup, depends upon the setup & where the transformer is located

Yup - AFCI is also required in a lot of areas

So....you need to rework your plan


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Instead of thinking in the sense of the whole house, break it down to each room. The lighting for the bedrooms can be one circuit, if using just an overhead, but if you wire in ceiling fans, then you will have to calc. load. I would personally pull 12/3 if it was me, and for the outlets, look at how beds are set up now, along with computers, and TV sets. I would personally put two outlets on each wall, and keep them on a separate circuit for each bedroom.

If I was to personally rewire my home, I would have 3 panels (Main with sub disco's, Load panel, and Lighting panel). Look at least having ACFI for the outlets to bring into more modern codes, GCFI for Kitchen, outside, Garage, laundry, Bath. For the hallway, look at least having two outlets min, because you never know when you have to plug in a drop light to work in the bath when you shut power off, and also may need to vacuum on the other side. Those you can come off of a bedroom.

For the living room, and any place there will be a TV, Satellite receiver, Computer, plan on running Ethernet (min. 2 per plate), Coax (min. 2 per plate), Telco (1 is enough, can at the most per jack, you can have 3 lines). Also, look at running wire for wired Smoke detectors. Cost is going to be high, but do not go for the min, because it will bite you.

Since the house is an older home, you could probably get by also figuring in new Insulation, Vapor barrier, and also you would have no Gypsum in the way to pull the wires how they should be.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Jdm001 (Poster #1, Post#1, Original Poster, OP, etc.) (Sorry about the long opening title) With the plethora of advisers, I will only address my answer to the very short term. (As you said yourself that your goal of rewiring the entire house is in the very long term). Namely, fixing the grounds in your receptacles and other outlets. I'm assuming ,() that, since your house is an older one, the boxes are metal, not plastic. Please look inside the box. I'm certain you will find (even in old Romex cable) a bare Copper wire. If that wire is mechanically attached to the box you need to do nothing further. Just get the Three prong (self-grounding) receptacles and install them instead of the old ones. (Just to be extra sure, you can double check by removing the panel cover (with caution, of course) and see if the bare copper wire is attached to the Grounding/Neutral bar. Menawhile, It would be a great idea to pick up a book on Residential Wiring Projects at any major home center. That will give you a great advantage on understanding the entire project no matter at what level you want to approach it. Good Luck! Eliminate confusion:yes::no: Through Education! Don't Drink:drink: and Drive, Ever!!!


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Don't forget about smokes.


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

jdm001 said:


> a couple runs of 12/3 between certain outlets, and a couple of "dedicated ground" outlets for computers that will also use 12/3.


Why are you running 12/3 between certain outlets?

Why are you running 12/3 to a "dedicated ground" outlet, all this will accomplish is money out of your pocket and an extra conductor at your plug. If your thinking you can make an isolated ground(orange plugs, at least in Canada)its not going to happen. There is alot more to makeing an isolated ground then putting an orange plug on instead of a white one.


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

*I'm Back! Sorry it took so long!*

Wow, I was out of town on vacation, came back and realized on vacation i deleted the email with the link. Luckilly, I got a status email that showed me the way back to this webpage! Can't believe I didn't bookmark it, and sorry for replying to late-- thanks to all who helped!

I should start off by saying I'm experienced (a pro) at running low-voltage and I know the techniques, I can fish cable with the best of them, it's the electrical codes I wasn't sure about. I should have stated better what I was doing.

The picture wasn't my cable paths or actual drawing, it's just something I drew up to show the paths I was going to use (but not as-the-crow-flies like the lines in the drawing), I was mainly using it to show all the "points" I was installing.

There was no metal conduit so I had to rerun everything. Took me 2 days to do 90% of the house and I had an electrical pro help. Here's what I did (for other people searching on this):

1) Ran 14/2 from the basement to the ceiling, ran it to all the overhead lights in the bedrooms & hallway. And from Lights to Switch plates.

2) Installed Arc-Fault circuit breaker and ran 12/2 to the main bedroom & it's bathroom (GFCI's in bathroom and "exposed" outlets not hidden behind walls)

3) Installed Arc-Fault circuit breaker and ran 12/2 to each bedroom and installed all tamper-resistant GFCI outlets.

4) Installed 12/2 wiring to living room with tamper resistant GFCI outlets (I know not needed, but code in the next few years will be all GFCI outlets).

5) I now only need to redo the wiring in the kitchen by putting both lights and the far wall outlets on one circuit. The two kitchen outlets (microwave & appliance) on it's own circuit. Rerun fridge and rerun oven.

Total Cable Used:

14/2: About 200 feet (roughly $40 bucks)
12/2: About 500 feet total ($50-70 bucks)
12/3: (for dual-switch outlet/light and for dedicated grounds) about 100 feet

Took me about 20 hours of pro help while I was drilling holes, installing outlets, and stapling cable pathways-- pro did some of the trickier fish work & all the work in the attic. Cost was $40 per hour so roughly $800, total project so far including buying electrical tools (good stripper, drill bits, the works) about $1200 and that rewired 90% of my house. I was quoted $4000 by an electrical company.


To address the questions:

Steve, thanks for the advise. I have a relative who is a commercial electrical inspector, he helped me with code and the basics; but I was more looking for the most efficient way to run the cable. The pro I hired helped with that.

Joe, thanks I wasn't aware of the 6/12 rule, but this was just replacing existing outlets. I'm now doing the kitchen rewire and finishing my basement and adding NEW electrical lines in there. I've already rented out a half dozen electrical books at the local library.

Scuba Dave, I did almost everything on there. The only thing I didn't was on the GFCI's in the kitchen, I put the microwave outlet on the same circuit as the other outlet near the sink. I know it should be one dedicated, but we don't do much microwaving at the same time as using a blender, and the run was really tricky. One day I might tackle it, but for now we've never had a problem.

Greg, great points. I actually installed a couple "Dedicated Ground" outlets for the computers. Not much more expensive (some people think they're useless) but for $20 for the outlet (a nice orange one that stands out), I was able to install a couple Dual Gang Decora & Electric plates. The standard electric for the whole house was Decora style (the rectangular ones) and the Orange Electrical dual circle ones really stand out. It's also got a little LED light to let you know if anythings wrong. I then hook my computers up to Battery Back UPS-350 's so that if there's a surge it'll stay on, protect the computer, and allow me to power down without damaging anything. (Only hook up your monitor and computer to the "battery" side, the "surge" side can take printer, etc since you don't want battery to run down quicker for your printer if the power is cut off).

Spark Plug-- no luck, it was all 40 year old paper romex (the stuff that falls apart when you pull on it, jacket freys easily) with no conduit or ground so there was no metal connection. Found a TON of code violations when we were gutting out the old wire-- took out as much of it as we could but there were a few stubborn lines we couldn't get to that were tied off in wall and left dead. Funny thing was the 200 amp service was installed and grounded properly, its like they did that but then didn't update the wiring, not sure how it passed inspection.

Oh, and a cool tip, the local library had all the books from the past couple years from Home Depot, Loews, Black & Decker with awesome pictures showing common wiring configurations. I highly recommend stopping at your library (dusting off the old library card, hadn't used mine in literally 15 years, and I had a $.50 cent fine lol), before starting any project. Really helped out a ton!

Darren, yes, the Isolated/Dedicated ground was what I was referring to, they're installed by running 12/3, you hook up the ground to the box and the grounding bar (as normal), you then install the black & whites as normal.. it leaves you with an extra RED conductor line. This line is hooked up to the GROUND (while the Ground was grounded to the box) and also grounded on a water pipe or somewhere else near the box. It's basically double grounded since it has a better conductor for ground. I mainly used it cause it stands out, gives a better ground, and gives me a nice dedicated outlet just for my expensive equipment. I don't have to worry about 'load surges' when someone turns on a light or plugs in a vaccum in the living room while I'm on the computer. Little extra cost, but $50 bucks is little to me when it protects my thousands of dollars of equipment.


Thanks for everyones help! :thumbsup:

I've got one other tricky run, I have about 3 lights in my basement I'm going to rewire. Two switches (one at top of steps & one at bottom) turns on 4 of the lights at once, and the other 3 lights are controlled on their own switch. I'm not sure how to efficiently run the wiring to all the switches from the lights without wasting cable.... might be posting for some pro advice in the next week!


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The bathroom receptacle needs to be on its own circuit. It can't be on the circuit with the bedroom.
Kitchen lights can't be on the same circuit as receptacles.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The NEC code is to protect the next person tha owns the house & what they may use the space for
They are Min codes to be met & you have not done that

Code is AFCI protected....GFCI is for wet areas
Bedroom requires AFCI on everything, including the lights - so now the lights need an AFCI breaker
Main room requires AFCI on everything, including the lights

Kitchen counter top requires (2) dedicated 20a circuits, no lights
And they must be GFCI protected
As stated the bathroom can't be on the same circuit as the bedroom
It requires a dedicated 20a circuit

You can replace a Main panel without replacing all the cituits in the house
It's done all the time & meets code

Ground is required to be green/bare, using red seems to violate the code
A ground is a ground, they all lead back to the same place
As stated what you did probably violates code (red wire) & really doesn't achieve what you think it does

What electrician did you use that was OK with ignoring basic codes ?


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

*One more question:*

Hey guys thanks for the reply. I wanted to update your questions.



Scuba_Dave said:


> They are Min codes to be met & you have not done that


Where do you get that idea? Everything was done to code, with very strict standards and there is only one current code violation that I haven't fixed yet (the kitchen) which I will eventually tackle.




Scuba_Dave said:


> Code is AFCI protected....GFCI is for wet areas
> Bedroom requires AFCI on everything, including the lights - so now the lights need an AFCI breaker
> Main room requires AFCI on everything, including the lights


I did all GFCI outlets, and I did all Arc Fault Circuit Breakers for the bedrooms and bathroom. I haven't rewired the kitchen yet. I did all GFCI outlets in the bathroom (and kitchen even though I haven't rewired it yet), and I put GFCI outlets on the first run in each room. This isn't required for current code, but it does provide protection throughout each run so that it will trip much faster than regular outlets. Even if no water is present, I understand that this will still offer shock protection.



Scuba_Dave said:


> Kitchen counter top requires (2) dedicated 20a circuits, no lights
> And they must be GFCI protected
> As stated the bathroom can't be on the same circuit as the bedroom
> It requires a dedicated 20a circuit


Yes, this is the tricky one. The wire was run horizontally in the wall around a corner and behind the stove wall. I'll have to re-run each, but as of right now I have two GFCI outlets in the kitchen in one circuit. The microwave is the main, and at most we've only hooked up to a toaster and have yet to have anything go out.

For the bathroom in the main bedroom, it's a tiny bathroom that only has one light and no outlets. I should have clarified this. Since there is no outlet, no shower/tub, I put the light onto the circuit with the bedroom. This puts one light and 3 outlets on one arc fault protected circuit breaker. It seems extreme to hook up a dedicated line for just a light, but I understand a future homeowner may want to drop a circuit below the light switch.




Scuba_Dave said:


> Ground is required to be green/bare, using red seems to violate the code
> A ground is a ground, they all lead back to the same place
> As stated what you did probably violates code (red wire) & really doesn't achieve what you think it does
> 
> What electrician did you use that was OK with ignoring basic codes ?


That is true, but using the red wire for a ground coded for ground (green electric tape) is actually the correct method. See this link:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Improve/IsolatGnd.html

Not that Lowes is the bastion of wiring diagrams, but this was also in two books I read on wiring outlets (Black & Decker Wiring Book had the best pictures showing the wiring of this type of outlet, the other was from Leviton).

Now, there is a hard to find 3 wire that has a Black, White, bare ground and the 3rd wire is Green/white; but both books say most people use 12/3 and code the red for hot.

The dedicated outlet with the isolated ground is just to mainly signify a direct connection back to the box for sensitive equipment, the conductor for the ground is still put to the box (grounding the box to the grounding bar in the circuit panel), but the conductor wire is just a better conductor to bring the ground back to the box. Yes it goes to the same place, and the benefits of the iso outlet can be argued; but it is not wired incorrectly.

I do have one other question, I want to wire one more box with an isolated ground, but the box was an old work box and is plastic. Since I cannot ground the bare grounding wire to the box, what can I do?

Thanks again for all the help guys!:thumbup:

James
jdm001


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

I was just reading your post and have a question. You mentioned that you connected the isolated ground to the existing ground bar in the panel. Is this the same ground bar that has the neutral (white) and ground wires attached?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You think Lowes knows the NEC code ?? _Really_ ? I have a bridge to sell.....
You are allowed to recode a red as a hot...because red is used as a hot
You recoded it as a _ground...not allowed_

A bathroom requires a dedicated 20a circuit, OR needs an outlet fed from another bathroom circuit that does not include lights,_ that is code_
Not running an outlet in a bathroom, no matter how small_..is a code violation_
That requirement is so the next homeowner doesn't have to run a circuit
Because it is already required by code as a MIN standard

So, No you have not done everything to code or Min standards required by Code

And you are planning on putting the lights on a kitchen outlet circuit
Again that does not meet code
Your standards were not "strict" you ignored the code where you chose to


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

HIVOLT said:


> I was just reading your post and have a question. You mentioned that you connected the isolated ground to the existing ground bar in the panel. Is this the same ground bar that has the neutral (white) and ground wires attached?


What if it is?


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

He can't use a regular outlet he would need an isolated grounding outlet. The ground is isolated from the yoke of the outlet.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

HIVOLT said:


> He can't use a regular outlet he would need an isolated grounding outlet. The ground is isolated from the yoke of the outlet.


Would those be the orange (maybe other colors too) outlets ?
I actually have some, never knew that was there specific use
I was going to use them thru the house for a circuit that could be supplied power by my Generator 
Just wanted them to be easily identified from others


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Correct Dave, they do come in colors and when they do they have a triangle. How is everything with you did you get a lot of snow.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

HIVOLT said:


> He can't use a regular outlet he would need an isolated grounding outlet. The ground is isolated from the yoke of the outlet.


What does that have to do with this question? Isn't a metal box also required for IGRs?

*I was just reading your post and have a question. You mentioned that you connected the isolated ground to the existing ground bar in the panel. Is this the same ground bar that has the neutral (white) and ground wires attached?*


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

A IGR is a waste of money when using NM. Just run a dedicated circuit using plastic boxes. You get the same thing.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

HouseHelper said:


> A IGR is a waste of money when using NM. Just run a dedicated circuit using plastic boxes. You get the same thing.


I was eventually getting to that.


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Jerry, except my apology, I am the real HIVOLT. When I left for work this morning I did not shut down the website. It seems that my son who is working as an apprentice thinks he's a know at all when it comes to the code. Plus he has never done any residential work so he does not have a clue. The company he works for only does commercial. Again I apologize and I will make sure it never happens again.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

HIVOLT said:


> Jerry, except my apology, I am the real HIVOLT. When I left for work this morning I did not shut down the website. It seems that my son who is working as an apprentice thinks he's a know at all when it comes to the code. Plus he has never done any residential work so he does not have a clue. The company he works for only does commercial. Again I apologize and I will make sure it never happens again.


Ok. Didn't mean anything negative about the post. I was just wondering what the concern was about the bonded neutral/ground bars at the service panel. I thought I was missing something.


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Let me explain what my son was thinking. A while back he helped me install an isolated grounding grounding panel and outlets. This was for a store that needed all the computers on isolated grounding outlets. We gave the panel its own isolated ground bar and went to building steel for the ground. He also failed to mention that we used 12/2 IG cable instead of MC. So he figured if it had to be done this way in commercial work it must be done this way in residential.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I was thinking isolated grounds as this one was wired were not much better then a normal run of wire - from what I have read

What would be the proper way/wire to run an isolated ground...conduit & THWN ?


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I was thinking isolated grounds as this one was wired were not much better then a normal run of wire - from what I have read
> 
> What would be the proper way/wire to run an isolated ground...conduit & THWN ?


In residential? Run a homerun dedicated circuit with a plastic box, regular outlet, and NM. There, you have your isolated circuit. This is unless you have the Black and Decker wiring book. Then you must the the "special" red wire. Then you have a super isolated ground circuit.


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Actually you have a dedicated circuit in residential.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I was thinking isolated grounds as this one was wired were not much better then a normal run of wire - from what I have read
> 
> What would be the proper way/wire to run an isolated ground...conduit & THWN ?


Yes. They have been shown to be pretty much useless in modern electrical systems. You could use Type AC cable if you wanted to. Check out NEC 250.146(D) and the IEEE 1100 Powering and grounding Electronic systems book.


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

In commercial work which is 90% of my business I use IG cable unless otherwise specified. A problem using EMT is that a lot of guys do not tighten the fitting enough and over time these can become loose and you can lose your ground. The same goes for rigid conduit, unless you are going to spend the time cutting and threading you have to use set screw or compression fitting. The code does not specify that EMT/RMC is to be used for IG outlets.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

HIVOLT said:


> In commercial work which is 90% of my business I use IG cable unless otherwise specified. A problem using EMT is that a lot of guys do not tighten the fitting enough and over time these can become loose and you can lose your ground. The same goes for rigid conduit, unless you are going to spend the time cutting and threading you have to use set screw or compression fitting. The code does not specify that EMT/RMC is to be used for IG outlets.


Is IG cable just MC with an extra ground wire?


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Yes it is an extra ground with a yellow stripe and a bigger price


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I always just run my PC off a UPS
Kinda funny when power goes out & my PC is still running
Used to happen at the last house all the time


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't have to worry about that because I installed a whole house generator. We are forever losing our lights in Marshfield.


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Scuba, wow, for someone who isn't well versed on the Isolated/Dedicated ground thing, you're very angry and argumentative. I appreciate your help, but if you're just throwing out accusations, then I don't need it.

I finished 90% of the wiring and studded up the basement. I had an electrican (licensed commercial inspector) come and look & everything passed code. The Kitchen was on it's own dedicated outlet circuit for two outlets, but it was grandfathered in.

The lights in the "Kitchen" on my drawing are outlets and lights for a dining room, but there's no divider so it looks like part of the kitchen. Bad drawing, but it passed code as-is, and I'm rewiring the two outlets and the fan plus it's switch on it's own circuit, it is *not* part of the kitchen.

Bathroom was also passing code, it's not a full bathroom and it was sold and passed inspection before I even rewired it. And yes, I did all 20 amp outlets throughout the house.

As for the kitchen, from Black & Decker "Complete Guide to Home Wiring" written 2 years ago "Two 20 Amp Small Appliance Circuits can be wired using one 12/3 cable supplying power to both circuits" from here (goto page 233 if it doesn't come through in the link):

http://books.google.com/books?id=0S... ground diagram&pg=PA233#v=onepage&q=&f=false

AND, while Lowes might not be THE best source, they wouldn't steer people wrong or into code violations into something they sell every day. No offense, but I trust Lowes technical people more than I'd trust an "extreme DIY" because as good as you may be, an army of technical people and lawyers proofreading would be more reliable than any one source.


*As for the isolated ground that others are asking about:*


Yes, I did use the Orange outlets with the triangle. I did install one the correct way (and yes coding Red for Ground *IS* good for code) using a metal box and grounding it this way:

COLOR IN OUTLET IN BOX

Black To Brass Screw To HOT Circuit
White To Silver Screw To Neutral Bar
Green To Metal Box To Grounding Bar
RED (coded grn) To Ground Screw To Grounding Bar also​Now, the instructions not only given by Hubbel inside the package stated this way, but also on lowes' website.

Read more at this industry forum: http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=180025

I just don't know if I can ground with the insulated coded red/green wire and get the same effect without grounding the bare wire too since it's not going to a metal box.

The purpose of these outlets is to give an un-inturrupted path back directly to the box to send out a surge as quickly as possible. I believe doing so in an electric box would still work (just as hooking up a normal, dedicated line), but if the bare wire touches anything on the way back to the box it could send the surge down different paths and not ground itself as effeciently as the insulated line (in theory) will provide. I just don't see how grounding the box to the panel will do anything since the outlet is not connected to the box anyway because the bare wire isn't pigtailed to the outlet like on a normal outlet. What does the bare wire redundant ground do for these outlets? Anybody know?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

When you rewire something you are required to meet current code, not pick & choose

And yes the big box stores have no clue
They do steer people into code violations due to their extreme lack of knowledge of code
Big sign at the local store telling people the wrong gauge wire to use


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

If you are trying to use an IGR in a plastic box (I still don't know why), you will have to attach the insulated grounding wire to the green screw, and come up with some way to ground the yoke with the bare wire, as it is isolated from the receptacle itself.
And yes, while remarking a conductor in a multiconductor cable to green is code compliant (250.119(B)), there is a caveat that restricts the use of said remarking to situations where the "... conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation... " not what you will find in a residential application.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Dang you beat me to it...

Interesting that the top yoke on my IG receptacles are connected to the grounding green screw
Only the bottom screw is not grounded
Possibly so a metal box will be grounded ?
But a metal faceplate will not ?
But there is a brass connection from the back to the faceplate screw on the ones I have

Better quality then the big box ?
Pass & Seymour


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

HIVOLT said:


> I was just reading your post and have a question. You mentioned that you connected the isolated ground to the existing ground bar in the panel. Is this the same ground bar that has the neutral (white) and ground wires attached?


You failed to note that the OP (from my understanding of his post) connected the "Isolated Ground" (the red wire, which is a Code violation in itself, as other posters have pointed out) to a water pipe , at the same time it was connected to the box and the grounding bar in the panel. Rendering it (minus the Code violations) a NON-Isolated Ground. I apologize for pointing out that the OP does not --at this time-- have a fundamental understanding of the purpose and function of an Isolated Ground. The way the (over priced) Isolated Ground receptacle works is that the Ground prong is NOT attached to the Band, or Saddle. Thus, attaching the Ground lead to the box renders that circuit GROUNDLESS!


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> You failed to note that the OP (from my understanding of his post) connected the "Isolated Ground" (the red wire, which is a Code violation in itself, as other posters have pointed out) to a water pipe , at the same time it was connected to the box and the grounding bar in the panel. Rendering it (minus the Code violations) a NON-Isolated Ground. I apologize for pointing out that the OP does not --at this time-- have a fundamental understanding of the purpose and function of an Isolated Ground. The way the (over priced) Isolated Ground receptacle works is that the Ground prong is NOT attached to the Band, or Saddle. Thus, attaching the Ground lead to the box renders that circuit GROUNDLESS!


But, it's "double grounded". It must be better! It will protect his thousands of dollars worth of equipment.


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## HIVOLT (Dec 17, 2009)

Spark plug, if you continued reading on you would of found that it was my son (know it all apprentice) answering the question.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

jdm001 (poster #34, OP) I see that you admonish Scuba Dave about being "Argumentative". Please read what House Helper and I have to say about the correctness (or the lack of it) and proficiency of hooking up the Isolated ground receptacle/circuit the way you describe you did it. Scuba Dave and others on this website are here to help you and steer you in the right direction. As far as relying on the technical and legal knowledge of the employees at the Home centers ('Bless them. They're dedicated people trying to help) They (typically) have had no training or experience in the field of merchandise that they're working at. Maybe there should be a law(we can't have a law for everything) That a counterperson should not work at a specific department without having training and experience in that field. Or the store should have a disclaimer in big lettering not to rely on their technical advice!



HIVOLT said:


> Spark plug, if you continued reading on you would of found that it was my son (know it all apprentice) answering the question.


:yes: I'd appreciate telling me which post # you are referring to. But as a general rule in life, we know, that when we're young we know everything. The older we get we realize that we know less. When very old, we realize we know nothing:laughing:



jerryh3 said:


> But, it's "double grounded". It must be better! It will protect his thousands of dollars worth of equipment.


Yeah. But when we go to School, we realize that Electricity doesn't work the way we "Think", or the way we want it to work!!!:yes:


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> :yes: I'd appreciate telling me which post # you are referring to. But as a general rule in life, we know, that when we're young we know everything. The older we get we realize that we know less. When very old, we realize we know nothing:laughing:


Post #22.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> Yeah. But when we go to School, we realize that Electricity doesn't work the way we "Think", or the way we want it to work!!!:yes:


I know what you mean. All I know is black is positive and white is negative.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Dang you beat me to it...
> 
> Interesting that the top yoke on my IG receptacles are connected to the grounding green screw
> Only the bottom screw is not grounded
> ...


The way it was explained to me. (And I've installed lots of 'em, mainly on computer and other sensitive data circuits, by request of the customer.) The purpose of the Isolated Ground is that it should not pick up the electronic "Noise" of the general grounding system. (which can negatively affect data). Thus, the Grounding prong of the IG receptacle is connected to a line that goes directly to the Ground rod! BTW. P&S have high quality products, which are generally not carried by the Home Centers. But in my area they DO carry them as well!


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> The way it was explained to me. (And I've installed lots of 'em, mainly on computer and other sensitive data circuits, by request of the customer.) The purpose of the Isolated Ground is that it should not pick up the electronic "Noise" of the general grounding system. (which can negatively affect data). Thus, the Grounding prong of the IG receptacle is connected to a line that goes directly to the Ground rod! BTW. P&S have high quality products, which are generally not carried by the Home Centers. But in my area they DO carry them as well!


I don't believe you have to go back to the rod. Only to the initial bonding point.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> I know what you mean. All I know is black is positive and white is negative.


That's good enough! I'm getting there:laughing:!



jerryh3 said:


> I don't believe you have to go back to the rod. Only to the initial bonding point.


That is correct. And not always possible. But. Ideally speaking!


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

spark plug said:


> You failed to note that the OP (from my understanding of his post) connected the "Isolated Ground" (the red wire, which is a Code violation in itself, as other posters have pointed out) to a water pipe , at the same time it was connected to the box and the grounding bar in the panel. Rendering it (minus the Code violations) a NON-Isolated Ground. I apologize for pointing out that the OP does not --at this time-- have a fundamental understanding of the purpose and function of an Isolated Ground. The way the (over priced) Isolated Ground receptacle works is that the Ground prong is NOT attached to the Band, or Saddle. Thus, attaching the Ground lead to the box renders that circuit GROUNDLESS!


Spark Plug, that's not what I said. I didn't ground it to a water pipe, I did it exactly how the Lowes wiring webpage said to-- but, I didn't use their website I was only using it as a reference for Scuba Dave. I wired it the way the wiring inside the Hubbell packaging said to. I've cited 3 sources that all show the same way, now since we're not arguing the benefits of the Isolated Ground Outlets, what is the CORRECT, to code way to wire these for a resitential install.

There have been a few posts saying I've done it incorrectly; and a couple mention an alternative way (just wire a dedicated line directly to a plastic box) but none mention the correct way to install it. That's all I'm looking for, not a fight.

I'm sorry, but I can understand a big box associate has no clue; but published work by two large companies and another book all citing the same thing? Do you think all three sources would go out on a limb and print it (along with detailed pictures) if it was 1) a code violation, and 2) the incorrect way to wire it for a homeowner when the material is clearly designed for residential use.

I appreciate everyone's help, including Scuba Dave; he's been helpful, but arguing and immediately saying I've done everything wrong (even though it passed an inspection) isn't the best way to welcome a new forum member. Or is it?


By the way, I sell bulk cable (mostly low-voltage) cable & installation equipment for a living. I know alot about the bulk cable, companies, and I'm familiar with all the companies for cable (Belden, General Cable, Superior Essex, Alpha Wire, etc), as well as companies making outlets and jacks (ICC, Panduit, Leviton, Pass & Seymour, Hubbel, Tyco/Amp, etc). I'm new to electrical code, but not cabling installations.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

jdm001 said:


> I appreciate everyone's help, including Scuba Dave; he's been helpful, but arguing and immediately saying I've done everything wrong (even though it passed an inspection) isn't the best way to welcome a new forum member. Or is it?


Point of Fact: Did you get this work 'inspected'? Were you issued a rough-in permit? From your post it sounds like you had an electrician look at it. Was he the electrical inspector?

BTW - here's an example of two published works that were recalled by a MAJOR DIY publisher for the following reason "that certain diagrams in these books contain errors that in certain circumstances could result in a potential safety hazard, including electrical shock."http://www.taunton.com/thetauntonpress/recall-notice.asp
(I believe this happened Dec 2008).

Point of Order: pointing out errors IS the _best way_ to welcome a new forum member. The whole point of the OP was to vet your plan, right? So, be careful what you ask for.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

He never mentioned a permit or Inspection
He had an "electrical Pro" assist him, and then a


> electrican (licensed commercial inspector) come and look & everything passed code.


No mention of the electrical Inspector... ?
Possible judgement call as he said he was updating an existing space
But then later states he is finishing his basement
If this was new space then meeting all existing code is required
If fishing wires in existing space then maybe not
If taking the walls down then rewiring; then meeting current code is required (all IMO)
Unfortunately this is what happens when advice from most big box stores is used

I've never run an IG in a residential setting
Pretty much told they were pointless so never bothered
I use a UPS & plug the PC in
But from what was said here you need either conduit with an insulated ground or the specific wire with the correctly colored ground

A red wire on a ground bus is an automatic fail (?)
I have a black wire on my ground bus from the phone transformer which the PO connected
I plan on moving that one day to get rid of the black wire

One reason I bought the NEC 2005 code book (handbook version) was to seperate fact from myth
And I just noticed my code book is missing....usually right on my coffee table 
I'd been told so much & wanted to find out what was right & what was wrong
Code changes every 3 years & I was even told by electricians inaccurate information
I've been on sites like this for years, but only really started to dig deeper into code since buying this house in 2003

My last house had a lot of (small) problems & was probably wired by what people would call a "hack"

Sorry for being critical....but I look at wiring as what the next owner of the house may need & what should be done to meet code


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

ScubaDave, This from my post #36: "_And yes, while remarking a conductor in a multiconductor cable to green is code compliant (250.119(B)), there is a caveat that restricts the use of said remarking to situations where the "... conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation... " not what you will find in a residential application."
_So technically, what the OP did is not a violation, as long as he or another qualified person will service the the installation.

jdm001: As has been pointed out earlier, to install an isolated ground in a dwelling that allows NM cable, just run a dedicated circuit to a standard receptacle in a plastic box. Your ground is now isolated.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

jdm001 (Post #50) I will not address myself to the entire post, or for that matter, the entire debate. As you can see that I'm not replying with the "Quote" I'll just make one general statement; That an Isolated Ground circuit, or as some people call it a Dedicated Circuit has one purpose and one way to be connected. The purpose is, to avoid all the electrical "Debris", or "Noise"? that is present in the standard Ground system. Therefore, it, and similar IG circuits take the most DIRECT route to the Main Ground, or closest point. There can be no peripheral connections to any other implement or system. Otherwise you defeat the purpose of it. As far as the accuracy of the sources that you cited.I did not look at those particular web pages. But I assume that they were checked for technical accuracy before being released. My major point is. That when you're dealing with Electrical wiring and Gas, you can not rely on the word of the sales clerk/s because they don't have the technical training or experience in the particular field that they're selling. Because it is not a requirement of their employment. The scope of their knowledge (typically) is limited to the merchandise and the prices. (No matter what) Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> jdm001 (Post #50) I will not address myself to the entire post, or for that matter, the entire debate. As you can see that I'm not replying with the "Quote" I'll just make one general statement; That an Isolated Ground circuit, or as some people call it a Dedicated Circuit has one purpose and one way to be connected. The purpose is, to avoid all the electrical "Debris", or "Noise"? that is present in the standard Ground system. Therefore, it, and similar IG circuits take the most DIRECT route to the Main Ground, or closest point. There can be no peripheral connections to any other implement or system. Otherwise you defeat the purpose of it. As far as the accuracy of the sources that you cited.I did not look at those particular web pages. But I assume that they were checked for technical accuracy before being released. My major point is. That when you're dealing with Electrical wiring and Gas, you can not rely on the word of the sales clerk/s because they don't have the technical training or experience in the particular field that they're selling. Because it is not a requirement of their employment. The scope of their knowledge (typically) is limited to the merchandise and the prices. (No matter what) Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!


Just to clarify your clarifying statement: A "dedicated" and "isolated ground" receptacle are technically two different things. It is true that with NM, and a plastic box they are inherently identical, let's differentiate the nomenclature for each.
And yes, always verify what someone wearing an apron tells you.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> Just to clarify your clarifying statement: A "dedicated" and "isolated ground" receptacle are technically two different things. It is true that with NM, and a plastic box they are inherently identical, let's differentiate the nomenclature for each.
> And yes, always verify what someone wearing an apron tells you.


Thanks for pointing out the difference. But you'll note that I said "some people call it a Dedicated Circuit" albeit incorrectly. Anyone familiar with the terms of the electrical trade knows that they are two entirely different things. A dedicated circuit is not necessarily an IG circuit, or it can be. As in the example you cited. A good idea for the Home centers would be to have Product and installation consultants who are qualified to give technical information to customers.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

spark plug said:


> Thanks for pointing out the difference. But you'll note that I said "some people call it a Dedicated Circuit" albeit incorrectly. Anyone familiar with the terms of the electrical trade knows that they are two entirely different things. A dedicated circuit is not necessarily an IG circuit, or it can be. As in the example you cited. A good idea for the Home centers would be to have Product and installation consultants who are qualified to give technical information to customers.


It's a good idea but it's cost a little more to pay someone like that. But, with more tradespeople out of work right now, the candidate pool is a little bigger to pull from.


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Leah Frances said:


> Point of Fact: Did you get this work 'inspected'? Were you issued a rough-in permit? From your post it sounds like you had an electrician look at it. Was he the electrical inspector?


The house was inspected by an inspector who is also on the home inspection board for St Louis, where the work took place (a suburb of STL). He was a licensed electrician that began doing residential inspections later in his career.

Then, I had a licensed electrician relative (the commercial inspector) look at all the work that myself and the licensed electrician did on the parts of the house we rewired.

Finally, after doing the bedrooms, hallway and living room the house was inspected along with the rough-in of the basement for code (I did both at same time and I will have them come back out when I finish the electric for the kitchen and the basement addition).

So, yes, it was inspected and grandfathered in on all the original work so the kitchen IS up to code as it's grandfathered in and it wasn't altered. The new work I did was checked by a relative but *also* inspected upon completion.



Leah Frances said:


> Point of Order: pointing out errors IS the _best way_ to welcome a new forum member. The whole point of the OP was to vet your plan, right? So, be careful what you ask for.


I agree, and I'm glad for all the help. But, look back at all the posts, I was never anything but unkind but was attacked for "multiple code violations" and that I did everything wrong.

"a red wire on the grounding bar is an automatic fail"

Really? That's the best way? It passed code. If it passed code then why is it even an argument?



Spark Plug said:


> That when you're dealing with Electrical wiring and Gas, you can not rely on the word of the sales clerk/s because they don't have the technical training or experience in the particular field that they're selling.


Yes, of course, I never once said I asked one of the knuckleheads at the big box store how to wire the outlet. I did my own research on the NEC Code Book for 2008 (the newest one the library had), but, I was unsure of the correct wiring with the language contained on Isolated Ground Circuits, then, the pro I asked mentioned that it's "up for debate, there's two ways to do it" so I looked at two different wiring books. 

One was Black and Decker, the other was Home Depot. I'm not saying their associates know all, but I doubt that a major corporation would risk a lawsuit without doing all due-diligence. I see the link you provide Leah, I'm sure it happens, but I'd be hard pressed to think that Home Depot and Black & Decker would write a book and not have NEC fact-checked for errors that would leave them liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuits. 

What more could I have done? It passed inspection when I bought the house, it was approved by a commercial electrical inspector, then it passed inspection. I read the sections in the NEC Code book, I looked at my county residential code restrictions (was basically useless), and then on the one thing I didn't have a firm understanding I read two books on it. I rented out about half a dozen electrical books in all from the library, to get best practices; but it was the isolated ground for a plastic box that I had trouble nailing down.

Thanks again to everyone who's helped!


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Jdm100 (Poster #58). I won't respond with the quote/s because it's too long. I'll just raise a few points. As Leah Fraunces pointed out in another post. That in case a claim is put forward, one of the first things the Insurance co. is looking for, is whether the work was inspected and you have a certificate that states so. The fact that you had Two Inspectors look at your work in an informal way is not much help without the proper paperwork to prove it. Then, about the Red wire that was used for Ground. If it was remarked with Green tape, it is debatable whether it's good or not. But if you left it with the original color, it's a clear Code violation (and against common sense, too.) no matter how many times you had it inspected!!!:huh:!


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

*Final Outcome: to all subscribed to this thread and web searchers in the future!*

To all whom have commented on this topic, thanks again. I recently had my inspection, and it went well. I passed. The inspector happened to be a worker that used to work for the power company and retired to become a home insector, so he was a great help regarding the Isolated/Dedicated Ground issue.

He pointed out, as many have said, that an isolated or dedicated ground any outlet on it's own circuit. Since it only has one grounded line going back to the box, it will acccomplish the same exact thing as my setup.

HOWEVER, he said that the orange "dedicated ground" outlet does serve a purpose. A future homeowner may see a dedicated outlet and not know he can't jump another line off it, and now it is no longer a dedicated outlet.

When using an orange outlet, it has an extra screw that is also used for a ground. The common installation is to use 12/3 with 4 wires: Hot, Neutral (as normal), Red-Hot (used as a ground), and Green Ground (as normal). The extra red is just another ground with a better conductor for grounding. While saying "it's double grounded so it must be better" it's funny but also true, it's really not doing much.

However, I wanted a bright orange outlet to let people know 1) this is a special outlet for my expensive equipment... don't touch. and 2) prevent anyone in the future from running anything else off it.

Finally, my rough drawing I first posted was pretty bad, I drew it up first to try to explain my wiring. To show what I provided before & after the inspection, i'm attaching the drawing I provided for the basement (where I used the iso ground on the middle/eastern wall). It's a little better than the first one


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

> HOWEVER, he said that the orange "dedicated ground" outlet does serve a purpose. A future homeowner may see a dedicated outlet and not know he can't jump another line off it, and now it is no longer a dedicated outlet.


your installation, from what I can see, is not to code. It's hard to tell as the drawing is small but this is what I see that doesn't appear to be to code.

It appears you do not have enough receps in the large room or the room in the upper left. You can have no more than 12 feet (wall measurement and I am guessing the grid is 6" per division) between receps. 

If you are required to follow the 08 NEC, any recep in a living space must be AFCI protected (you could have done so and simply not indicated them. Just mentioning the requirement in case you haven't protected them)

I see no lighting outlet for the stairs 

I only see switches indicated in the stairway. I am guessing you just did not indicate them in the other rooms



> The extra red is just another ground with a better conductor for grounding. While saying "it's double grounded so it must be better" it's funny but also true, it's really not doing much.


the insulated conductor is the same as the bare conductor as far as conductivity and size. and no, it is not true that double grounded must be better. Each EGC to an iso grounded recep serves a different purpose. There is nothing "double grounded". In fact, if it is "double grounded" (as in both EGC's are bonded to both the EGC terminal and the recep yoke), the installation is illegal as you are not allowed to install parallel grounds for this size of wire. 

Now, I don't know if this is your main panel or a sub but if it is a sub, you need to install an iso ground bar and run a separate iso ground conductor to the main panel. Joining the iso and normal EGC's in a sub defeats the purpose of using an iso ground.


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

nap said:


> It appears you do not have enough receps in the large room or the room in the upper left. You can have no more than 12 feet (wall measurement and I am guessing the grid is 6" per division) between receps.
> 
> If you are required to follow the 08 NEC, any recep in a living space must be AFCI protected (you could have done so and simply not indicated them. Just mentioning the requirement in case you haven't protected them)
> 
> ...


Ah, good catch. I did the basement in 3 sections and the back bedroom WAS done later so it's only showing the light & switch. I did all the basement lights on a single circuit with a 3 way switch, and a couple independent lights. The bedroom had 2 additional outlets, covering the 12 foot rule. Great catch, it's hard to see on there with as shrunken as it is.

There is a light in the hallway stairwell, it didn't come through but it's right in the middle on the way from the 3 way switch.... man, that was a tricky one to do also!



nap said:


> Each EGC to an iso grounded recep serves a different purpose. There is nothing "double grounded". In fact, if it is "double grounded" (as in both EGC's are bonded to both the EGC terminal and the recep yoke), the installation is illegal as you are not allowed to install parallel grounds for this size of wire.
> 
> Now, I don't know if this is your main panel or a sub but if it is a sub, you need to install an iso ground bar and run a separate iso ground conductor to the main panel. Joining the iso and normal EGC's in a sub defeats the purpose of using an iso ground.


See, that's what I wasn't sure about and tried to confirm. The inspsector said it was "correct" but i did ground the grounds to the same grounding bar that I did with everything else in the box. It is to the main panel, not a sub.

I've also seen where the ground is run outside the box and grounded to a water pipe instead of going all the way into the box, but that doesn't make sense to me. I'd have to have a junction box somewhere near my main service panel, just to "jump out" the red "extra" ground.



nap said:


> the insulated conductor is the same as the bare conductor as far as conductivity and size. and no, it is not true that double grounded must be better.


Oh, and I know it's not "double grounded it's better" I meant that even though it was said jokingly early in this thead by someone else, it's correct (that it doesn't do anything "better" for you). Two grounds are not better than one. 

It was funny, but I'm really doing the special outlet so that it's not attached to anything else in the panel; and I think an orange outlet would stand out both outside the wall, and inside since it doesn't have yokes to extend it past to another outlet.

Great points Nap!


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Poster # 57. As nap (Poster # 58) points out that the extra "grounding conductor" attached to the same receptacle and line essentially "Defeats the purpose of the Isolated Ground. In its purest sense, the concept of the Isolated ground was --as it proved to make a difference-- in data processing and storage. Where, the regular ground to which the outlet was tied in) picked up all kinds of contaminants and electrical "Noise", which was harmful to the operations. On the other hand, the Isolated Ground was connected directly to the Main Grounding bar of the building. Beside the Code violation and hazardous condition that was created, (by running a parallel path to ground) the entire purpose of the Isolated Ground was defeated. It does not even make sense from an economical point of view. A standard (Duplex) receptacle can be had for [email protected] retail price. An Isolated Ground receptacle is priced @ $ 19.99 and upwards. :yes::no: (The ultimate symbol of confusion.)


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

ya, I had read the entire thread and there is a lot of good info in the thread but there is also some mis perceptions concerning iso grounds; whys and hows both

the grounds ultimately all have to be tied to the grounding electrode system. If they aren't, they will not serve their purpose. All grounds, both iso and normal, will connect at the main service. I have installed systems that fed through 3 or 4 subs (as in a sub of a sub of a sub). How an iso ground is treated in a sub is it is connected to an iso ground bar which is insulated from the panel tub. The iso system is kept separate all the way back to the main service and the neutral/ground/grounding electrode system bonding point. All the iso grounds are interconnected via this method of installation though and carried on one EGC to the next panel in the line of panels back to the main.

generally running a EGC to a separate item such as a water pipe really is no benefit. You should realize that your main electrical service is also connected to that same water pipe. as to separate rods: you must bond all rods to a common point so there is really no benefit to doing anything other than taking the iso ground to the main panel and bonding it, along with the other systems mentioned above to the same ppoint. 



> See, that's what I wasn't sure about and tried to confirm. The inspsector said it was "correct" but i did ground the grounds to the same grounding bar that I did with everything else in the box. It is to the main panel, not a sub.


they will go to the same bar (in a main panel anyway) but at the recep end, they cannot be interconnected. Each is there for a separate purpose and needs to be connected to their respective points.





> Great points Nap!


well, this is what I do for a living.:wink:


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## jdm001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Yes, great points. That's where my original confusion comes from. The Iso Ground came with TWO Grounding yokes; and it showed a Green (standard) ground at the bottom being grounded to the box; then it showed a nearby Grounding Yoke (#2) that showed a Red conductor going out from it.

That's where I get confused. When I ran it; I didn't put anything outside the box. I grounded the ground to a pigtail in the metal box, and the "red ground" back to the main service panel. I also used pigtails inside the box, and when the green "regular" ground made it back to the box, I grounded it the same as the "red ground" in there. Essentially two grounds both going back to the same main service panel.

For reference, I think I still have the packaging and I'll grab some pictures.

But, this might help-- Hubbell released their version and wiring diagram online, this was one of the original ones I looked at in a wiring book at a the home center store before I researched it in other books at the library:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.hubbellonline.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/g/g9.pdf&pli=1


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## xxPaulCPxx (Dec 2, 2006)

That's weird - that's the second time it's clipped of responses after that last post.


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## xxPaulCPxx (Dec 2, 2006)

http://www.hubbellonline.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/g/g9.pdf

And again correcting the link so it works


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