# DIY roofing



## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

What's the best way for 1 man? Scaffolding? 
I have a bungalow with a metal roof. I wonder would a 10x5x7 scaffolding work? I would attach the ladder to the scaffolding and the scaffolding to the house through the sofits.

1. take off old metal
2. remove old shingles
3. remove old decking.
4. Install typar
5. Install new decking
6. install durofoam, foil up
7. put back metal panels
8. new screws and washer
9. acrylic paint. green?

It's steeper than it looks -45'


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

#1, question is why are you thinking of doing this?
If It's to displace heat, adding a ridge and soffit vents and using a light color roof would do that. Also making sure the attic is air sealed and properly insulated.
#2, What's up with the scaffolding, a ladder with standoffs to get up onto the roof and another ladder with ladder hooks to climb up the roof is all you need.
A ladder should never be used on top of scaffolding.
#3, I'd never suggest anyone do this job with one person!.
#4, Metal roofing with exposed fasteners at some point is going to leak from expansion and contraction of the panels.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

roof hooks are forboden here. Why do you think scaffolding is dangerous? Why would a ladder attached to scaffolding be dangerous?


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Forgot one Joe.
#5 Why would you put Typar (house wrap) on a roof?

You can get vented foam closures to go under the ridge trim.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Synthetic Roof Underlayment
Stronger - 10 times stronger than 30# felt for the ultimate tear resistance
It will not blow off during installation and helps eliminate the need for costly roof repair.
Drier - the unique slip-resistant surface is waterproof to prevent moisture issues.
Lighter - up to 10 times lighter than 30# felt so it's easy to carry onto a roof.
Faster - the rolls are also 25 percent wider for quicker roof deck coverage.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Typar is a brand name not a product.That is where you confused me.We use Typar house wrap all the time.Have never used their other products.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Underlayment goes on top of the deck.

What kind of construction do you have? Vented or not? 

If not, I would want to see more rigid board insulation to the exterior to get the R-38 for most regions and some above deck venting.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

The other thing would be a harness. But it doesn't seem any safer to me.









Do you think i can scamper up the metal roof from the platform or will i need a ladder? Would you start in the middle or the edges? how much scaffold would i get? I supposing getting the metal panels back on will be the hardest part..


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

See the problem with an old house is you don't want damp air coming in though the sofits and hitting the roof beams. So if you can cover it with typar all the better, especially towards the ends of the roof where the ice builds up and moisture will come in to the house. Lots of houses use regular typar over the decking.

What happen was 15 years ago this roofing was installed wrong, and the old shingles were not removed and the rotten roof boards were it leaked.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Metal roofing does not even need an underlayment.
It's often done with just 1 X 4 purlins.
No way should ice be an issue on a metal roof except it sliding off the wood in one big swoop, so often time Ice spikes are added.
Without a ridge vent and soffit vent all the hot most air coming from inside the home is going to be trapped inside the attic, could not be more wrong about the moist outside air hitting the rafters, without proper venting, there's always going to be moist air up there.
Lots of houses may use Typar but not under metal roofing.
Since you seem to think metal roofing with exposed fasteners is the way to go I can see why you may need the added protection. 
Seems like you have it all figured out and I've only been working on 100 plus year old houses for the past 40 plus years, so I'm done.
Hope it all works out for you.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

There is a ridge vent but the old shingles are blocking it, so that is another reason to remove them. Yes i have the moor vents too.
So what can i do about the screws, the holes are already there? Well that's when the paints comes in.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

:icon_rolleyes:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

OldNBroken said:


> :icon_rolleyes:


Ha!!

I will want to see pictures here.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

OlnNBroken: Please pass the popcorn


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

It's not like i am the first person to use a scaffolding to fix their roof.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm going to have to rent a 32 ft fiber glass ladder aswell. Then i can lash to the scaffolding. That should be super safe.









"Without a ridge vent and soffit vent all the hot most air coming from inside the home is going to be trapped inside the attic, could not be more wrong about the moist outside air hitting the rafters, without proper venting, there's always going to be moist air up there."

I have vapour barrier up there. The attic is warm, completely open. You saying i should cut a hole up there?


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

begal said:


> What's the best way for 1 man? Scaffolding?
> I have a bungalow with a metal roof. I wonder would a 10x5x7 scaffolding work? I would attach the ladder to the scaffolding and the scaffolding to the house through the sofits.
> 
> 1. take off old metal
> ...


Re-use the panels? Not likely to stay water tight. And the underlayment goes on top of decking.:laughing:


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

begal said:


> There is a ridge vent but the old shingles are blocking it, so that is another reason to remove them. Yes i have the moor vents too.
> So what can i do about the screws, the holes are already there? Well that's when the paints comes in.


Paints? Please clarify.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

I was going to paint over the old panels with acrylic paint, that should fill in any holes. I guess i could caulk each screw with silicon?
I'm putting 1" durofoam, foil up, over the decking not sure it needs more typar underneath?

Shouldn't there be typar under the decking to keep it from rotting? The vents will still work.

This is what happen when you install sofits and moore vents in an old house. Your roof rots!


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Paint will not fill holes.Typar under is,lets just say not right and a added expense.I think your try to reinvent the wheel.At least your trying to reinvent construction methods that have worked for 100's of years.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

So no durofoam, no typar? Just purlins and the metal panels.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Metal roofing does not even need an underlayment.
> It's often done with just 1 X 4 purlins.
> No way should ice be an issue on a metal roof except it sliding off the wood in one big swoop, so often time Ice spikes are added.
> Without a ridge vent and soffit vent all the hot most air coming from inside the home is going to be trapped inside the attic, could not be more wrong about the moist outside air hitting the rafters, without proper venting, there's always going to be moist air up there.
> ...


Hi Joe.

You have to be a bit more specific. An architectural metal roof needs a solid substrate, and underlayment. A structural metal roof only needs purlins, usually at 5 feet on center (Trapezoidal SSRS like Butler MR-24). 

I would never, in this day and age, use a through fastened metal roof on a residence, or on any structure where you do not want leaks. It simply makes no sense. Roll formers can be brought right on site that apply a sealant in the standing seams and hidden, floating clips are the norm nowadays. Through fastened, "Crap Lap" roofs are OK for chicken coops, as long as your chickens don't mind a shower now and again.

Glad you are well.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

begal said:


> I was going to paint over the old panels with acrylic paint, that should fill in any holes. I guess i could caulk each screw with silicon?
> I'm putting 1" durofoam, foil up, over the decking not sure it needs more typar underneath?
> 
> Shouldn't there be typar under the decking to keep it from rotting? The vents will still work.
> ...


Why dont you put a decent metal roof on? Check out MetFab, Zip-Rib, etc.


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## steveinNEPA (Jun 13, 2014)

reusing old panels? Painting to seal all the holes? 

My friend, you are not installing a roof, you are installing a RAIN SHOWER... Thats going to leak EVERYWHERE, EVERYTIME it rains.


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## bilug (Apr 16, 2014)

This thread scares me. Sometimes you have jobs you should not do yourself.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Seems people are twisting around things i say and then on top of that not offering any useful advice. 

There are no holes in the roof and it is not leaking that i know of. Maybe the shingles are hiding the leaks. It is the same as many other roof installed 20 years ago. The neoprene washers will be replaced, then painted over. How can it leak if there is 1" foam underneath?


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## hotrod351 (Jun 15, 2012)

i say with this guy, begul, just say YES, YOUR RIGHT. might want a parachute also.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

It is very clear to all of us here that you are in over your head. Metal moves at a much different rate than wood. It expands and contracts even as clouds block out the sun. When you put a fastener through it, the hole made by the fastener becomes egg shaped, and water gets past the sealing washer. The fasteners also expand and contract, and tend to back out. You also have the problem of snow sliding off of a metal roof which is usually "Remedied" with a snow rail or snow birds.

There is no question that the best bang for your roofing buck is still asphalt shingles. Remove the metal, remove the old shingles, fix the deck, Install a layer of ASTM D226 Type 1 felt, and install a nice shingle like Certainteed Landmarks, would be my advice.

Doing any project like this requires help. At least think of the safety issue. You will need roof brackets for scaffold boards. Do your homework. Some of the comments here may seem a bit offensive or sarcastic, but these guys speak from experience. Roofing is one of the toughest jobs in the construction industry, and most people do not know the first thing about the incredible thermal swing that roofs go through many times per day. Think about a metal roof sitting in open sunlight, when a cold shower comes along. We are talking about a temperature swing of 80-100 degrees over a relatively thin membrane which is the water proofing for your home.

It sounds like you are enthusiastic, but you need to do your homework. 

PS A 32 foot Fiberglass Ladder is damn heavy, and I would not "rent" a ladder for this job, I would buy a blue or black tip Aluminum ladder. You will end up paying more in rent than the ladder costs. Your scaffolding needs to be tied in to the house. You will need a couple of Jacobs Ladders too.

Good Luck to you.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Nope, snow sliding off the roof is a good thing. You always want water away from the house asap. :thumbsup:

Why should I care if the roof expands? there will be 1" of foam and layer of typar underneath, so it can not leak. That's reason people like metal roofs around here, no problem with ice damns and the snow just slides off. You be surprised how many roofs have structural problem because of too much snow, or leaks, even newer houses around here had ice damn problems.:no:

Sorry to confuse you all but typar is an accepted underlayment. The one called roof underlayment is the same as the typar but a bit thicker. The idea is the same, let air flow but not moisture. Felt is probably just as good.:jester:


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Sorry, had to re-fill. 
Please continue...


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

begal said:


> Nope, snow sliding off the roof is a good thing. You always want water away from the house asap. :thumbsup:
> 
> Why should I care if the roof expands? there will be 1" of foam and layer of typar underneath, so it can not leak. That's reason people like metal roofs around here, no problem with ice damns and the snow just slides off. You be surprised how many roofs have structural problem because of too much snow, or leaks, even newer houses around here had ice damn problems.:no:
> 
> Sorry to confuse you all but typar is an accepted underlayment. The one called roof underlayment is the same as the typar but a bit thicker. The idea is the same, let air flow but not moisture. Felt is probably just as good.:jester:


Water will go through the foam and underlay at every screw.:no:


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Alright let's put shingles on, probably look nicer.
I'm thinking now use the scaffolding and the harness system. I can loop in through front porch and get up to the top middle and install anchor up at top. I would have to take one panel off first. 
I suppose i should take all the panels off, then the all the shingles, etc instead of doing each section at a time, since shingles to be staggered? I guess the shingles will be much easier to scamper up and down than the slippery metal roofing. Would i still need more roofing brackets? I guess it can't hurt.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Okay here the rot from the inside last year. You can smell it now in the spring. I've already replaced the trusses.
How much of the decking should i expect to take out?


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

I would expect to have to replace all the rot, you wont know how much until the old roof is off and you inspect the deck.


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

begal said:


> Okay here the rot from the inside last year. You can smell it now in the spring. I've already replaced the trusses.
> How much of the decking should i expect to take out?


Doesn't look that bad, the smell is just surface mold probably. Mold removal products are available at your local big box store. Rule of thumb is "if it won't hold a nail, replace" and the stagger on the shingles doesn't really matter, just cut them vertically with a hook blade if you want to do sections. Good luck!


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Howdo you replace trusses with the roof intact and why do you keep posting pictures of other buildings? Can you post some of your actual project?


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

All the attached photos are mine. Keep in mind we get a lot more snow and ice than than you can imagine, sometime -25 to -30 Celsius too, then the furnace really struggles. 
You can see the white looking photo shows the new trusses. I also added another short truss at top for extra structure. Some of those pieces look black or grey, they are really bad. My head hurts in the spring and eyes water, they are full of mold. Your right they still have mass and structure that is good thing about wood.
Also i think that in 1948 they were not kiln dried. That means sort of fruity wood that is perfectly strong but still needs to be removed. I have to take out that piece that holds the side of the house and the roof together at the corner, you can see the grey color. The vent hood was probably leaking.


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## roofermann (Nov 18, 2013)

I give up.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

... but that picture above is of new construction. You keep talking about repairing an old existing one. The pictures you are posting on another site are of a totally different house that has a very nice standing seam on it already. I'm just curious what this thread is all about. Don't you have pictures of the house you are supposed to be working on?
The inside pictures of the rafters don't match any of those buildings either.

Okay. Who stole my popcorn? ???


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

begal said:


> *Alright let's put shingles on, probably look nicer*.
> I'm thinking now use the scaffolding and the harness system. I can loop in through front porch and get up to the top middle and install anchor up at top. I would have to take one panel off first.
> I suppose i should take all the panels off, then the all the shingles, etc instead of doing each section at a time, since shingles to be staggered? I guess the shingles will be much easier to scamper up and down than the slippery metal roofing. Would i still need more roofing brackets? I guess it can't hurt.


 So now your going to remove the metal and install shingles ? 

You should have planned your build and then built your plan...I stole that from diving, but it fits:laughing:


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

For the record, those R's are not "Trusses" they are simply collar beams.

The outside appears to be new construction, and not even dried in yet, then the pictures inside show what appears to be old T&G sheathing, or roofers. I am really confused.

I'm with Rooferman, Im out of here.


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## mnp13 (Jan 16, 2007)

This thread makes z-e-r-o sense.

I'm not a roofer. 

I would disagree that the "best bang for your buck" is a shingle roof. A _correctly installed_ metal roof will outlast a shingle roof, unless I'm missing something and there are shingle roofs that are still up and water tight after over fifty years? I know multiple people who have metal roofs that are from the 50's and 60's that have never had a problem. I know no one who has a shingle roof that is anywhere near that age.

The photos in this thread are obviously of totally different houses. Post 32 and 33 don't even have the same pitch to the roof, let alone matching building styles or materials. 

But I can't imagine the logistics of re-using metal roof panels. What a pain. They are going to be warped and banged up and the screw holes aren't going to be round. And you have to figure out how to get them off the roof individually without bending them or dropping them... and any with a cut edge will be like a gigantic razor blade. 

In any case, since the OP seems to be making this story up as he goes along, does it really matter?


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Some metal roofs look nice. The one's i have is more agricultural panel. I also notice some metal roofs don't have exposed fasteners. Exposed fastener are big problem. I am starting to think that panels are leaking a bit now, but it is getting absorbed in the old shingles. I wonder if it is the old shingles and felt that smell of mold? Maybe a lot of mold under there. Other problem is no proper ridge vent, so some how the roof air is coming into the house.
On the upside i think i can sell each 20' panel for maybe $20 each? Just as well to have nice new shingles roof looks much better than old style panels. Shingles are cheap.
Looks like a good deal for $167 bit like rock climbing in Vientiane.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

mnp13 said:


> This thread makes z-e-r-o sense.
> 
> I'm not a roofer.
> 
> ...


When I say "Bang for Your Buck" I mean original cost divided by time. This assumes a high quality shingle VS a high quality standing seam metal roof 24 gage, or .040 Aluminum with a PVDF coating that is installed with floating clips, not a POS 26 gage through fastened "crap lap" roof, that historically starts to leak in 11-13 years as the fastener holes egg shape due to expansion and contraction.

A good metal roof is going to cost you 2.5 to 3 times what a shingle roof does, with the proper accessories. (Snow Rail System etc.) This of course depends on the geometry of the roof. Lots of valleys, hips and ridges raises the price of both, but more so metal.

Its fine to disagree, thanks for your opinion. :thumbsup:


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## mnp13 (Jan 16, 2007)

jagans said:


> When I say "Bang for Your Buck" I mean original cost divided by time. This assumes a high quality shingle VS a high quality standing seam metal roof 24 gage, or .040 Aluminum with a PVDF coating that is installed with floating clips, not a POS 26 gage through fastened "crap lap" roof, that historically starts to leak in 11-13 years as the fastener holes egg shape due to expansion and contraction.


Gotcha. There are a number of houses about the age of mine in my area, many have standing seam roofs, a few of them are copper  many (not all) are well over 50 years old, which I know because I'm one of "those" people who knock on stranger's doors to ask them about their house. :laughing:

I think you are referring to what I usually call "barn roof" it kind of looks like the inside of corrugated cardboard?



jagans said:


> A good metal roof is going to cost you 2.5 to 3 times what a shingle roof does, with the proper accessories. (Snow Rail System etc.) This of course depends on the geometry of the roof. Lots of valleys, hips and ridges raises the price of both, but more so metal.


But said roof will last 3 or 4 times longer, so if you're in the house long term you'll get your money's worth. However, if you like to house hop, it's probably not worth it.



jagans said:


> Its fine to disagree, thanks for your opinion. :thumbsup:


Hey, if we don't discuss, how will we ever learn.


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## mnp13 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey Begal, are you ever going to post an actual picture of the roof that you are actually planning to work on?


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

mnp13 said:


> Gotcha. There are a number of houses about the age of mine in my area, many have standing seam roofs, a few of them are copper  many (not all) are well over 50 years old, which I know because I'm one of "those" people who knock on stranger's doors to ask them about their house. :laughing:
> 
> I think you are referring to what I usually call "barn roof" it kind of looks like the inside of corrugated cardboard?
> 
> ...


Cheap metal roofs come in several different configurations, but yes, you get the idea. You are talking serious money for copper, but it can last for hundreds of years in the right atmosphere. There is a great little book called "Copper and Common Sense" That was produced by the Revere Copper co. which was produced in response to the lack of knowledge in the roofing industry regarding the physical properties of copper, and metal in general with respect to how it reacts to temperature changes.

Many roofers simply do not understand the fact that metal has to be designed to allow for movement, because it is going to move, regardless of what is done to restrain it. Through fastening it to a wood substrate is an exercise in futility.

Have a good day.


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## begal (Jul 23, 2014)

Okay what to do about this? First it seems like the roof is slipping. Not too much, not sure but this might have happened when i put in the internal frame for the insulation. I don't think it was there 1.5 tears ago...

2nd is the worse part of the sag, the rest is not so bad or almost straight. I hope those trussed don't need replacing. I guess just sister them up and fill in plywood?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you spend all your free time on Google looking for other peoples homes to post on here?
If it's really yours then it's time to call in a pro.
There's nothing in those pictures that was done right.
You have no clue how to fix it or have the tools to do so.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

I just checked back in for the free popcorn!!!!!!
Best of luck to you Begal.


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

I am lost, can you just start over.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

AndyWRS said:


> I am lost, can you just start over.



It's not you Andy. Ill take mine with butter and a little salt. :thumbup:


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

And a Budweiser please!!


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

mako1 said:


> And a Budweiser please!!


Yeah, A Tall Neck, if you will.


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

The most confusing thread I have ever read! 

I think all the drinking is being done by the OP.


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## bilug (Apr 16, 2014)

This guy clearly has nothing better to do than screw with a bunch of roofers. He's gotta be a roofer himself.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Oh this isn't the only forum he's doing this on. He must have no life and very bored. He's not even in this conversation here. Why do you think I broke out the popcorn so early in the thread.


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## bilug (Apr 16, 2014)

He's an unemployed roofer


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