# Soundbars



## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

theycallmehawk said:


> Any recommendations for a nice sound bar / woofer combo that won't break the bank?
> 
> I know that will eliminate Bose, Sonos and all other high ends brands.
> 
> thanks,


Bose a high end brand? Not in a million years. Bose is all marketing, and they are very good at it. They do make some decent products but they are priced about four times what they are worth. One thing most people don't notice is that Bose does not publish performance specifications like the majority of audio manufacturers do. That is because their speakers do not reproduce the entire audible spectrum. My advice is to stay away from Bose entirely. For great performance and value check out Definitive Technology products.
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/sound-bars/
Their cheapest sound bar is $799, which is not cheap, but it would sound great. Or, you could get three ProMonitor 800's at $145 each, and one of their cheaper powered subs and have much better separation of the front left / right channels. I own a pair and they sound excellent with lots of clarity and punch, but they do need a sub to fill out the lower octaves.


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

"Won't break the bank" is too ambiguous of a price range to offer suggestions. What is the amount you'd like to pay? What is the maximum you would pay?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I have a Vizio E series 2.1 Soundbar with Sub-Woofer. Pretty much 99% of our tv viewing is done with the Soundbar for audio. The other 1% is through our 5 Channel A/V Receiver setup.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

KEF...


High end and well worth it.....




Low bucks equals low quality sound.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly said:


> KEF... High end and well worth it.....Low bucks equals low quality sound.


That is only in the eyes of the beholder. Only those that have money to throw away, would go with a KEF soundbar or speakers.

My main listening source is the Vizio Soundbar. I am not trying to get Rock Concert 150db sound levels. If we want to watch movies or Football during Football Season. Then the Home Theater gets turned on. My home theater is a Denon AVR-1612, with RB-82 II's for Fronts, RC-42 II for Center, and RB-42 II's for rear surrounds.

I do get a kick when people post over rated speakers or equipment on forums. Then there are those that post under rated, would not even let my dog listen to, speakers.

Those of us that are not fanatics about A/V. Go with what our wallets can afford, and what we know will work for our personal purpose.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

gregzoll said:


> That is only in the eyes of the beholder. Only those that have money to throw away, would go with a KEF soundbar or speakers.



That's a pretty harsh statement.


How about those of us that prefer a better than average performance, and are will to pay for it, will go with a high quality KEF soundbar, or its equivalent.

One older system is using Bohlender Graebener (BG Corp) Z series speakers, with Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 & AM-9080 separates and it's nothing short of fantastic. Well worth the money...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly. I have friends that are multi-millionaires. They will not even spend that kind of money on speakers. Anyone that has money, by earning it through hard work. Will be cost conscious on what they purchase, along with how they spend it.

Majority are going to be frugal like my wife & I. Those that go out and spend $20k or more on speakers that are no different than speakers that are $400. You are just paying for a name, not a product.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Yet the same frugal people will go out and buy Bose, which any pro knows is the most overpriced speakers on the market.


Say what you will, but there IS a huge difference in $400.00 speakers, and $20,000.00 speakers. And the difference isn't just the cost. To claim otherwise is just silly.


That's like comparing a 40' Chris Craft, to a 16' Bayliner. They are both boats right?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly said:


> Yet the same frugal people will go out and buy Bose, which any pro knows is the most overpriced speakers on the market.
> 
> 
> Say what you will, but there IS a huge difference in $400.00 speakers, and $20,000.00 speakers. And the difference isn't just the cost. To claim otherwise is just silly.
> ...


Incorrect. The frugal people buy what they can afford. Really there is nothing wrong with Bose if you are using it for what it is designed with.

As for boats. Yes there is a big difference for a 40' Chris Craft to a 16' Bayliner. Personally my friends like their 46' Sea Ray Sport Yacht. As for the whole Bayliner vs. Chris Craft argument. Some Bayliners cost more than the Chris Craft's do.

But I really do not see how comparing boats to speakers works. Since everyone has different tastes and same as what they can afford, or what their personal preference is.

Yours is obviously overpriced speakers that you are paying for the name, not for how they sound.

Those like myself. Do not sit in our Living Rooms and crank up our systems to Earth Shattering Volumes. Also those like myself do not have a need to spend $50k on a system that maybe gets 45% use out of it.

We chose our Vizio Sound bar. Due to it works. It gives good sound for the money. It fits our lifestyle.

Our friends that have the 46' Sea Ray are the same way. They have the money. But they do not see a need to go around throwing it away on overpriced stuff.

Their boat is an investment is why they have it. They take care of it all of the time. If someone comes up to our friends with the check in hand, with the right price. They will sell it in a heart beat and put that money towards another boat. Most likely it would be a 50' Sea Ray. Which they have had their eyes on. But then they would not be able to get it into some of the coves that they go to, that have their favorite places to eat. Due to the draft is not shallow enough.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Maybe it's because I'm half asleep, but I can't see blowing $1K on a sound bar and anyone that uses an excuse of "I like good sound" is out of their mind if using a soundbar. For that money I'd do it right and do a cheap 5.1 setup or buy 3 pairs of 1970s Advents, rebuild them and use them with a new Yamaha or Denon receiver. The Advents will sound 10X better than any soundbar and cost about the same in the end but are of course much larger, and will take some work to replace the foam etc. They do 30Hz-15KHz fairly flat and usually go for $200 a pair on ebay.

If I was going for a simple solution like a soundbar, I'd loose interest as you approached $300 so my vote is for something like this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1CZ0TT0263


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

not everyone wants separates . sound bars can sound good. i bought my wife a $50 SB from walmart. for $50, it ssounds pretty good. and is all she needs.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

cj133 said:


> Maybe it's because I'm half asleep, but I can't see blowing $1K on a sound bar and anyone that uses an excuse of "I like good sound" is out of their mind if using a soundbar. For that money I'd do it right and do a cheap 5.1 setup or buy 3 pairs of 1970s Advents, rebuild them and use them with a new Yamaha or Denon receiver. The Advents will sound 10X better than any soundbar and cost about the same in the end but are of course much larger, and will take some work to replace the foam etc. They do 30Hz-15KHz fairly flat and usually go for $200 a pair on ebay.
> 
> If I was going for a simple solution like a soundbar, I'd loose interest as you approached $300 so my vote is for something like this.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1CZ0TT0263


Agree completely. If you're shooting for 5.1 or 7.1 reproduction then separate components are the way to go. Sound bars will only get you so far and they have to alter frequencies and phases in order to mimic the surround sound so you are not getting an accurate reproduction right from the start.

Better quality surround receivers also come with systems which will automatically tailor the gain and frequency response of the system to your room and speaker setup to ensure an accurate as possible reproduction.

Sound bars are neat and they do work for rather confined areas.... but I wouldn't bother spending too much on them.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Incorrect. The frugal people buy what they can afford. Really there is nothing wrong with Bose if you are using it for what it is designed with.


When I first bought my Panasonic plasma TV for the living room, I was using it without a separate sound system for a few months. One day I got the idea to take my old Bose Wave radio, which I bought years ago for use as an alarm clock, and connect it to the plasma TV for better sound until I bought another receiver and speakers. Boy was that a mistake. I was expecting richer, fuller sound with more clarity, but what I got was muffled, weak, distorted garbage. I couldn't believe that the tiny built in speakers in the sides of the plasma TV actually sounded better than the Bose. As with all speakers, hearing is believing. That is why I chose my Definitive Technology speakers, as I did a thorough listening test at a local hifi store comparing multiple brands. The speakers that kept drawing me back were the Def Techs. :thumbsup: I will never purchase another Bose product.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Dave Sal said:


> I chose my Definitive Technology speakers.




According to some here, even YOUR speakers are just some overpriced "name" brand, so you got taken.

You apparently should have bought some crap from Wal-Mart, because it's way better....:laughing:



This is like talking to people that have bought a Bose system. A useless waste of time, since they've bought into the hype, and simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake.


Gregzoll,

Under your thinking a boat is a boat, a car is a car, and a speaker is a speaker.

Why on earth would anyone buy a Ferarri, when they can easily afford Kia?

Why buy a Sea Ray Sport when you can easily buy a Jon boat and trolling motor?

Why buy even so much as a Vizio Soundbar when you can easily buy a clock radio?


Sorry guy, you're just being unrealistic. Why did you buy that Vizio, it is a brand name (lo a bottom of the line brand name) isn't it?


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Here's another decent soundbar for the price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115398




ktkelly,

Not sure if you included me in this _"This is like talking to people that have bought a Bose system. A useless waste of time, since they've bought into the hype, and simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake."
_
Audio used to be a hobby of mine. Everything from 1950s-1960s Fisher, Marantz to modern Bryston. If you've never watched a movie in a room with a good Bryston setup and two Velodyne DD-18s you're missing out. I had a setup in my truck until 2009 using an Eclipse headunit, two A/D/S/ amplifiers, two A/D/S/ 12" woofers and Infinity Kappa mids and tweeters. Total system cost was $4900 for the equipment. 

My PC speakers are Bose, I think they were $300 or something, didn't really care at the time and they fit the bill for being small.


Most of my stuff is gone, though I kept a few pairs of New Large Advents, and a modified pair of Powered Advents that have my own 200+50W amplifiers in them now. 

Powered Advents with my own amplifier replacements :
https://plus.google.com/photos/1011...ms/5253737122874490081?authkey=CPy-mdvB3qikfQ

Overall I'd say back when audio was a hobby of mine I think Bose was a little cheap and weak for my tastes and I certainly didn't need to make excuses.

I still think if you're going to blow more than $300 on something you should do better than a cheesy soundbar. If all someone wants is a simple solution and not to spend a lot then I have no problem with that at all, but a $250 soundbar is all that is necessary in my book. Soundbars trying to pretended to do multi-channel just sound BAD and are a gimmick. Any tv I've ever setup that is the first thing I turn off.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly, you do not get it. For the mass majority. It does not matter what the minority feels about what we want or do. Those of us with a certain taste, or budget set for items. Such as home audio. Are not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on home entertainment systems or rooms.

As for the whole boat argument. Some people are happy with a Bayliner or even a Jonboat. Versus getting something top of the line.

The great thing about the human species is that, each person is unique in their own way.

Now time to get back on topic. Which at this point, this topic has ran its course. Due to the OP has not been back since 5/26. They posted 7 topics and turned and ran. I really doubt they will ever be back at this point.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> ktkelly, you do not get it. For the mass majority. It does not matter what the minority feels about what we want or do. Those of us with a certain taste, or budget set for items. Such as home audio. Are not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on home entertainment systems or rooms.
> 
> As for the whole boat argument. Some people are happy with a Bayliner or even a Jonboat. Versus getting something top of the line.
> 
> ...


 
I didn't even notice the thread was that old.
Now I feel like I wasted my time. :furious:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

cj133 said:


> I didn't even notice the thread was that old.
> Now I feel like I wasted my time. :furious:


Do not worry. It is only a couple weeks old. These threads for things like this. End up being a big argument of "My father is better then your father".


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

I have to laugh at the "you just don't get it" statement.

30+ years running a highly successful Audio Video & Systems Integration company would seem to indicate otherwise.


Your argument doesn't hold water. Why?

There are millions of dollars being spend on "High End" audio video gear every year, so it would seem the "mass majority" must be buying the better quality products. 

Soundbars included...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly said:


> There are millions of dollars being spend on "High End" audio video gear every year, so it would seem the "mass majority" must be buying the better quality products.
> 
> Soundbars included...


Millions I doubt it. It is now more in the tens of thousands. Soundbars are now becoming the norm. You are seeing more people are looking at the fact that they do not have the income like they did ten years ago.

Those that are buying Home Theaters, are going with Home Theater in the box systems, or doing like I did. That is building it piece by piece, staying around mostly $5k.

Sound bar's were never intended to replace full sized 5.1 systems. Most like myself are buying them due to the speakers in our 42" or greater Flatscreens have poor sound quality.

I know the local ownership of the local A/V shop in my town. They have been in business for over 40 years. When I went out there to get my speakers. We started talking about how much consumers have changed.

The owner stated that he had to realign his business model from selling high end speakers, which he was not selling very many. Along with consumers were going more towards Bowers & Wilkens, Klipsch for the mass majority. He sells more Integra receivers then any other brand.

So again. I rest my case and are not going to keep arguing with you. Due to you have tunnel vision. Which is what I see a lot over at avsforum.com. 

The OP that started this topic is long gone. If you want to dispute about A being better than B. This is not the place to do it in. I can imagine what it is like to try and work with you in person, when a customer wants to spend X amount of dollars and has a certain brand that they want.

I myself have been around a/v for all of my life of 47 years. I have read the trade magazines all of my life. Yes high end is nice. But when you start breaking it done. It is going to perform no better then mid line equipment.

The funny thing is. Legacy based out of my town. You know where they purchase the magnets and wire for their speakers from. They get them from Radio Shack & Partsexpress.com. Last time the owner of Legacy & I talked. He even stated that yes their equipment is nice. But when it comes to buying what you want. You purchase what you can afford and to always do your homework.

I really do not see why you are snubbing your nose on those of us that look at a budget when buying our equipment. My family is satisfied with the Sound Bar system we have. Same with the Home Theater. Like I stated in the other post. We are not cranking the systems up to Earth Shattering volumes.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

It's a shame, Klipsch used to only make high end speakers. I had a pair of Klipsch KG 5.2s that if I recall were around $1100 new a pair in 1992. That was after they had already started making cheaper speakers.

The Klipschorn is what they were known for and I believe they were selling for around $5K a pair in the 90s.

Now, they are known for cheap home theater speakers. How things change.


This is a picture that shows one of my Klipsch KG 5.2s, probably around 1998.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I think we have a good old fashioned pizzing war which will not end peacefully. Of course more expensive speakers will sound better after you get over a $1000 threshold due to better engineering, heavier cabinets, better tuning etc. I have some high end Monitor Audio speakers and other nice toys like a Torus clean power supply etc. I think you have to get over a certain threshold of $1000 to REALLY notice the improvement. Our OP just wanted a general bit of advice. High end audio will always be around but for the average consumer I imagine there is nothing wrong with soundbars if they don't expect true surround sound effects and know what they are getting into. Truly rich people can buy anything they want and are not frugal with their $$ as it is an ego thing. I guess it depends on what you define rich as.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Klipsch still makes high end speakers. Most like myself, go for the Bookshelf style speakers. I do not even need a sub with the RB-81 II's for the fronts. I usually will get told by the wife to turn the system down, if I am watching heavy bass movies.

Even with the Sound bar. I get told to turn it down, due to the bass rattles the walls. I tried moving the sub on her side of the couch. She did not like it, due to it became overly aggressive, during programs with a lot of bottom end. I ended up just moving the sub for the Vizio Sound bar, back to my side. I still get complaints at time for it being too loud.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Yuri, you are correct on that. These things go the same way that the threads in the Electrical forum goes.

If you really want to see hostility. You should see some of the threads on the computer forums. I have never seen it as bad these days with for vs. against. As how it was back in the day, when Fido was the way to move messaging across the country and continents.

As for Rich. I can say that those friends of ours that earn millions a year. Are very frugal when it comes to spending. They mostly drive eight to ten year old cars. They do not care about having the latest and greatest audio system, or tv on the market. They mostly will go to the local resale shops, or even Kohl's for shopping.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Funny this topic of soundbars came up as I am sorta interested in one more for the convenience and not having speakers and cables running all over the place just for some basic TV and movie watching. I am so old school I just watch old James Bond movies and HATE anything CGI. Back then there were REAL stuntmen and you could appreciate what went into making a movie. Now it is all fake.:yes:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I am old school also Yuri. I hated what they did with Star Wars, when they redid them. I am in the middle as to what JJ Abrams will do with Episode 7. I love the older James Bond movies. Have they queued on Netflix and Amazon. I also have the newer Dr. Who episodes queued up on Amazon right now.

It took me some time to decide to finally get a Sound Bar. I got to the point that when I reached 46. My hearing started to get a little worse, or where I could tell that the speakers in our Panasonic Plasma were too tinny.

I started out with just a 2 channel Vizio Sound bar and it was okay. When the E series that we have, finally came down to a decent price, and I wanted some Bass for when we watch tv. I decided to bump up to the 42" with Wireless Sub-Woofer. I can say that it does its job.

As for the Home Theater. I started out with the Klipsch RB-41 II"s for fronts & rears. Did not like that we were not getting the Bass that we wanted, and we did not want a Sub. So I started to do more research. Found that the RB-81 II's fit our need.

When they were delivered to my wife's work. She thought that I was crazy for getting them. She thought that they were as big as her old speakers.

Now she can not get enough when watching movies or Football. Right now we are watching Run Away Bride. Perfect sound with it. Before that, was Delivery Man. Perfect sound with that. Come Football Season. The Home Theater gets turned on during the Pre-Show.

She has told me that if we divorce. She keeps the Home Theater.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

BTW Yuri. The greatest stuntman that ever lived. Could be argued that it was Dar Robinson. There are some others out there. But Dar made Stunt work what it was, before they computerized and started using wires for everything.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I like the Indiana Jones series, not crazy about Dan Craig and the last James Bond as the jokes are gone. Just got Battlefield 3 for free from EA as I have Sims. Clever marketing as it is replaced by 4 and they want to suck in new players/buyers. If it was not for the UTube videos on how to play it an old fart like me would not get it but it is fun and the price was right.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Just took a look at our Future Shop web site and am amazed at the price range of those soundbars and popularity. Anywhere from $200-$2000. No Vizio but they do sell Polk Audio which used to be a good high end speaker brand. After that they have LG, Samsung, Sony which people don't really recommend and of course Bose. What do you guys think of Polk.

My HIGH end Creative Audio guy only wants to sell me the over $1000 stuff as that is his market and I don't watch that much TV anyway so that is out of my league.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

One of my neighbors, that ended up buying a KEF unit from me, had gone to Best Buy and listened to the various soundbars they had set up to demo (a veritable plethora of major brands).

The one they liked best?

The Sony unit. 


After I installed the KEF for them, I got a "Oh my god, this is WAY better than any of those others we listened to!".



FWIW: I didn't call anyone nasty names, and didn't consider are discussion hostile (like they tend to do in the electrical forums), but do have a strong opinion about this business I've been in for SO many years.

Gregzoll,

I think it's funny that you mentioned a company that sells B&W, and Integra, as those are most definitely high end lines. Especially so with Integra being the high end Onkyo product, and B&W most definitely being high end.

Not snubbing, or thumbing my nose, at anyone. Just stating the facts from the side of a professional in the AV industry, as I see them. I prefer to give the customer a product that I know will be reliable and give better than average performance, and that works.

I don't see companies like, Cary Audio, B&W, Atlantic Technology, B-G Corp., Leon Speakers, Cary Audio, Krell, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, California Audio Technology, etc, etc, going out of business, so they must be continuing to make money and sell products.


Bought a Yugo lately...:wink:


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

ktkelly said:


> One of my neighbors, that ended up buying a KEF unit from me, had gone to Best Buy and listened to the various soundbars they had set up to demo (a veritable plethora of major brands).
> 
> The one they liked best?
> 
> ...



So,
They liked how a Sony soundbar sounded in the middle of a BestBuy store (certainly optimum listening conditions) but liked your KEF unit in their livingroom more?


Completely fair comparison for sure.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I went out of my way to pickup an old Polk audio-only soundbar for our new family room/kitchen TV. No wireless nonsense to set up or keep synchronized. Sure, it isn't going to give me the same fidelity as actual separate speakers. But going with those would end up causing much more sound to resonate away to the second floor. So instead the bar projects to straight from the screen to the viewers. Works great. Especially for late evening viewing. 

For better viewing/listening we've got a theater, to be set up later this year. 

My point is don't get too fixated on the audiophile nonsense, pay more attention to how you're actually going to use the room and how that'll affect the rest of the house.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ktkelly, yes they sell the higher end components as I mentioned. Due to they deal with both rich and middle class income buyers. The majority of their business is with middle class buyers.

They move more Klipsch speakers then the local Best Buy does. Same for flat screens, which they are lower priced then the local Best Buy. Plus side is that they will come to your house and set up the equipment, walk you through. If any problems later on. They will not charge you for coming back and fixing something.

Even they have stated that they would rather have a customer happy by not spending a whole lot. Then having them upset at spending too much on their audio choices.

I really do not care to spend a couple of thousand on one speaker setup, that is made to take the place of home theater systems. Sort of what Bose tried to accomplish.

I have two systems in my home. The sound bar for tv watching. The Home theater for Football season, movies and watching programming off of the Blu-Ray player, when we are viewing Amazon Prime stuff or Netflix. Since the sound bar is not connected to that unit.

Everyone has their choices. I do get a good laugh when you get someone that comes into a thread and tells everyone that they are making bad choices. Because they did not go with the most expensive equipment in the show room.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> ktkelly, yes they sell the higher end components as I mentioned. Due to they deal with both rich and middle class income buyers. The majority of their business is with middle class buyers.
> 
> They move more Klipsch speakers then the local Best Buy does. Same for flat screens, which they are lower priced then the local Best Buy. Plus side is that they will come to your house and set up the equipment, walk you through. If any problems later on. They will not charge you for coming back and fixing something.
> 
> ...



The only thing that matters is that a person is happy with what they have. That is the entire point, right?


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

gregzoll said:


> Everyone has their choices. I do get a good laugh when you get someone that comes into a thread and tells everyone that they are making bad choices. Because they did not go with the most expensive equipment in the show room.


Agreed, but audiophile nonsense just brings this out in people. Look no further than the monster cable and even more ridiculously over priced "specialty" cables. 

But for the ultimate thread-killer.... mention _Bose_.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

cj133 said:


> The only thing that matters is that a person is happy with what they have. That is the entire point, right?


Totally agreed. But some do not see it that way.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

wkearney99 said:


> Agreed, but audiophile nonsense just brings this out in people. Look no further than the monster cable and even more ridiculously over priced "specialty" cables.
> 
> But for the ultimate thread-killer.... mention _Bose_.


Monster is nothing. It is the $1300 power cords that gives you that look like a dog does, when they cock their head and are thinking WTH.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> Totally agreed. But some do not see it that way.


After restoring hundreds of tube amplifiers, listening to a lot of "audiophool" equipment and doing my own comparisons and then building my own amplifiers, that is the conclusion I came to.



As long as the person is happy, whether it's with a $1300 power cord that performs as good as a $5 one, or a cheap set of speakers that kinda stinks, but does the job all that matters is that the person is happy. I have a pair of $60 Altec-Lansing pc spkrs on our 24" Vizio kitchen tv because as was said before, many if not most modern tv's have pretty poor speakers in them.

I swore by tubes until someone gave me a Bryston 4B that I had fixed under it's warranty when it was 19 years old and then compared that 800W monster to a 50W tube amp. I realized pretty fast they both sounded pretty much identical and that 800W doesn't go much louder than 50. Once I realized tubes didn't sound any better all of the audiophool propaganda started to become clear.

Now that doesn't mean I don't like high end stuff, but a lot of what I feel is best audiophiles don't agree with. I swear by bi-amping using active crossovers. Biwire is a joke, and biamping with passive crossovers is a joke.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Just like buying a car. You can get a basic Kia or a Mercedes. Both have 4 wheels and roll and will get you where you want to go. Whatever the consumer is happy with is what matters as long as he knows what to expect in advance ( simulated surround sound ).


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

cj133 said:


> The only thing that matters is that a person is happy with what they have. That is the entire point, right?


Totally correct.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

cj133. Bi-amping only works best, when you are talking about having large outdoor sound stages. For granted it takes some of the load off of the amp, if you are wanting to make people give that look of ah, because you have a whole wall full of amp's to drive the 12 speakers across the front wall, with sub's placed in the wrong locations.

I look through the setups on avsforum all of the time. 99% of them you can tell that they blew the bank on the construction. But what they wanted for equipment never came through. Due to there was no money left.

I grew up with a local guy in my area that took his Apple Stock, from his father owning the local Apple store, before there was any such thing. His rooms blow the majority of the ones on avsforum away. The sound quality is top notch. Most of those setups are using mid grade equipment, that was properly setup after the room construction.

I have friends with so much money, they do not know what to do with it. They could care less about home theaters, or high end vehicles. What they want. Is to be able to turn on the tv and hear what they are stating on it. Without having to turn on four different pieces of gear to get sound.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

you guys are hurting my feelings. i'm going to go adjust my cable elevators.


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## rckdng (Jun 27, 2014)

I've heard good things about Vizio sound bars


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## mrs5150 (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't know much about soundbars but I do know that some of them are not compatible with other name brands, so if your like me buying things one at a time to save remember that you might want to ask if you can pair it with certain speaks, subwoofer or etc. I know Sono's is one that can be paired..


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

yuri said:


> Just like buying a car. You can get a basic Kia or a Mercedes. Both have 4 wheels and roll and will get you where you want to go. Whatever the consumer is happy with is what matters as long as he knows what to expect in advance ( simulated surround sound ).


Good analogy.

Audio is a lot like cars. A good comparison....a Corvette will out perform quite a few cars 2-3x the price.

Additionally, most of the differences in audio performance are not detectable by the human ear. Most audio nuts will tell you they can tell...but they can't. It's kinda like beer. Remove the name and most people can't tell you what it is.


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