# What concrete do I use for resurfacing a interior floor?



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

I've pulled up the carpet and laminate from my dining room and kitchen, and the concrete slab underneath is uneven and has gaps about 1" in certain sections.

I want to lay down a coat of stain and epoxy over the entire floor.

So what type of concrete mix do I need to lay down onto the existing to get it leveled out and ready to apply the stain and epoxy?

Thanks all!


----------



## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I am not an expert in this field, but years ago I had success using vinyl concrete patcher & then painted the floor with a low gloss latex. Others on here may have better suggestions.


----------



## Helpy Helperton (Feb 4, 2011)

You'll want to use a polymer modified cement. It's what all the decorative concrete contractors use for the type of overlays your describing. There are a bunch of manufacturers so here's a link:
http://www.concretedecor.net/Abstracts/CD302_polymers.cfm


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

i've been reading on the polymer modified cement on the decorative concrete websites...
It looks like there are 2 ways to do this.
1. use the existing slab, spray a stain on it and roll or spray an epoxy coating over it so that it makes the top strong for foot traffic.
2. they have a 1/16" thin layer of epoxy style cement... which apparently does the same thing as #1

Other then that I can't seem to find any more info on it other then finding contractors to actually come out and do it.

So, from this info i've come up with this procedure.
1. Use a Sand/Topping mix like this: http://www.lowes.com/pd_10389-286-1..._prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1
2. After a couple of days of curing, spray a stain on the top of it.
3. After a couple more days of the stain drying, spray the epoxy top coat on.

So, with this, I have a couple more questions.
1. I removed the existing floor and there was old tile directly onto the concrete slab. I chipped it all off but there is a old tar like adhesive left on the concrete. Is there a type of cleaner to remove this old adhesive? Or will pouring a bonder on it then the Sand/Topping mixture be good to go?

2. Am I suppose to be using a Trowel or a Float when putting this Sand/Topping mix on?


----------



## KarlJay (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm going to guess that you have an older home. Mine has tiles over tar over concrete. 
You might want to leave the tar/tiles in place, not only can they be a major pain to remove, the tiles might be asbestos.

What type of floor are you looking to put down? I'm looking at solid hard wood and I'm probably going with a floater system (2x4's pressure treated on side 16" OC) I think their called floaters or streamers, then 3/4" plywood over that.

The tar and tiles you have on there now will work as a moisture barrier.

As far as making level, you can shim up the floater system, the down side of the floater system is that you'll have higher floor height, probably 2".

If you're doing tile, a floater system should work as well, I think the difference is what is over the floaters, maybe concrete backer board.


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes it is an older home. Well wether for not the tiles are asbostes or not... I already chipped them all up and only the tar is left. I wear a mold mask when I do all of this anyway.

I actually WANT to do a concrete stain on the whole thing instead of a tile or wood floor.


----------



## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

You are headed for trouble my friend.

Sand topping mix is in no way tuff enough for this purpose.

You need a polymer modified self levelling compound. You can find these on the "Mapei International" website. There are others.

The SLC you use must be rated for "wear surface" use.


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

ok, I found this SLC at the home depot website:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...talogId=10053&productId=100192482&R=100192482

It does not say anything about a wear surface... of polymers. But a couple of the reviewers have poured this and put epoxy over it with success.

It's much more expensive then a standard concrete.

Other then this I can't seem to find any other SLC anywhere local.

Is this what I should be getting?


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

I also found this at Menards:
http://www.akonallc.com/residential/repair/sl_floor_underlayment.html
Still it does not say anything about polymer modified or wear surface.
Thoughts?


----------



## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

The Level Quick IS NOT intended for use as a wear surface, it is an underlayment for additional floor coverings. All products have a "Data Sheet" available. If you were to look up Level Quick's Data Sheet you would find:





> *LIMITATIONS*​
> *Do not use over lightweight concrete, gypsum*
> *underlayment, OSB, particle board, hardwood floors,*
> *parquet floors, or metal.*​
> ...


Same deal with the Akona.

What you are wanting to do is going to require a little effort. You will have to order the proper product, it isn't something that is routinely stocked at a home center. It isn't like buying a loaf of bread. Self Levellers used for a wear surface are specialty items and taking the path of least resistance isn't going to benefit you at all.


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

Ahh ok, I got you know.

I was able to find this online, they ship direct. It's $36.50 a bag for a 1/4" thick 25 sq. ft. It's the 5500 version.
http://www.duraamen.com/products/selfleveling-concrete-resurfacing


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

I also called and talked with Quikrete and they have this:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/SPEC_DATA-SelfLevelingFloorResurfacer.pdf

It says it is a wearable surface but nothing about any polymers in it.

The lady at Quikrete said this is what is used for interior flooring for staining or epoxy finishes.


----------



## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

OK Slow Down.

Ordering that product on the Internet is going to break the bank. That is the correct product but my suggestion is that you find a local tile store that will order it for you. You don't have to use that brand. More readily available brands would be Mapei or Ardex and any tile store will have access to those brands.

*How much square footage area are you trying to cover?* Let's see what you really need.

A typical 50# bag will cover 50 square feet at 1/8" thick. If you are going to use the recommended mesh then things begin to change. It takes a minimum of 3/8" thickness to cover the mat but the mat also occupies space so there is some calculating involved.

The thing to do is have it shipped in in pallet form not UPS or FedEx one bag at a time - that would be crazy. You can probably move a pallet for about $45 in most cases.


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

I called up Lowes to see if they carry the Quikrete, they do not have it in store... and it was to late to call the place they get it from so they are suppose to call me back in the morning on wether or not they can get it.

To start off with, the little "step" of concrete that I currently have f'ing up my floor i'm going to chip away at to get it a bit lower with everything else on the floor... 

I was going to grab come patch concrete to get that somewhat flat and to fill in a 4" wide by 4" deep hole that is in the floor. When I asked Quikrete about that she said to wait 5 days after I fill in those sections before putting the resurfacer on.

I'll let you know what Lowes says tomorrow and if they can't get it then i'll call a few tile places and see if what they can do. Menards is always the cheapest on everything they sell as compared to Lowes and Home Depot but the people there just dont care and are no help. So I may have to go there to see what brands they carry then look it up and call the manufacturer to see if Menards can get it.

I would rather get this stuff from one of these stores so that I can order Extra just in case, and take back what i dont use (hopefully).


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

i'm going to recalculate my area tonight to get an exact sq. ft. that I need.


----------



## fungku (Jul 27, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> OK Slow Down.
> 
> Ordering that product on the Internet is going to break the bank. That is the correct product but my suggestion is that you find a _*local tile store*_ that will order it for you. You don't have to use that brand. More readily available brands would be _*Mapei or Ardex*_ and any tile store will have access to those brands.


I think you skipped reading this part?

A local floor supply store or tile store (at least where I live) will get you better pricing and better service than a box store, and they carry better brands.

Mapei or Ardex are very good brands and I would use those over qwikrete or whatever any day.


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*you won't find anything other than knee pads at any apron/vest store for your project - that includes quikcrete,,, ALL remaining adhesive must be removed PRIOR to installing ANY polymer modified o'lay mtl - this means diamond grinding &, usually, placing 2 layers of o'lay due to 'ghosting' of tile joints,,, victor's ( duraamen ) is good altho i've never used it,,, when you include prep, this is specialty work - even including the acid sprayer & sealer selection.

1 nice thing is you'll have worn knees after you finish :yes: a not-so-nice thing will be you have to look at your work for years  by the time you finish,it doubtful you'll have saved any $ nor had fun :no:

i know how good tile work should be done but i hire it rather'n show my ignorance/stupidity
*


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

So after doing to more research on this tar type glue that is down on the concrete... it seems to have more asbestos in it then the tiles themselves. And if I have no choice but to grind it off, then thats not going to happen.

So, seeing as though the new SLC will not work with this tar... what other options do I have?

Do I have no choice but to put a 1/2" wood subfloor down and ceramic tile the whole thing?

Or put laminate right over the concrete?

Just not sure what I should do now.


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*if the work's not going to be done correctly, why worry about what's on top ?*


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

itsreallyconc said:


> *if the work's not going to be done correctly, why worry about what's on top ?*


I think the real question is, why waste your own time posting useless comments? Forums are created to ask questions and inform. Why not get on-board with that purpose?


----------



## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*its not my house, genius,,, you got the right answers but discard them,,, why waste OUR time is a more relevant question*


----------



## Integraoligist (Dec 9, 2010)

itsreallyconc said:


> *its not my house, genius,,, you got the right answers but discard them,,, why waste OUR time is a more relevant question*


As a genius, I'd like to go ahead and rant about your punctuation and ignorance of the English language... but I wont.

So, lets go ahead and review the last couple of questions that I've already posted.
-------
Do I have no choice but to put a 1/2" wood subfloor down and ceramic tile the whole thing?

Or put laminate right over the concrete?
-------
Were either of these addressed in the thread? If so, I apologize as it seems that I have overlooked them. If not, then what is the answer?


----------



## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Probably my last contribution to a thread that is all over the place with no resolution in sight for some reason.

Here's the deal. The black adhesive is typically an asphaltic product commonly referred to as "cutback". Old cutback DOES contain some asbestos. It is a given in the tile industry that if one scrapes old cutback down as much as possible so that only a stain remains then it is possible to install tile over it by using a proper thinset mortar. Getting asbestos fibers airborne as a result of scraping cutback would be a real challenge if not impossible.

The same goes for SLC. If the residue is scraped to only a stain remaining the surface can then be primed and SLC poured over it. This is the understanding in the tile installation business and this is my experience with SLC's.

I don't understand why this seemingly never-ending thread can't seem to get these issues resolved so it can move on.

I don't know what I may be missing and I'm not interested in reading this thread from the beginning (again). So that's my two cents coming from over three decades of field experience. Take it for what it may be worth.


----------



## acglobal (Feb 7, 2011)

use a self-leveling topping APPROVED as a wear-layer. Mapei, Ardex, or Buddy Rhodes or Cheng offers some. most come in a white or grey finish.


----------

