# Window well-to dig or not to dig



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Put a cover on it.


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## Trucon01 (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree. Get a cover for it. If the pre-made covers dont work for you, click on my basement link and go to page 8. I made my own with PVC and plexi.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

so thats it? we originally put in those plastic covers from home depot but the interior block was still getting damp so we arent sure


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

How old is the house?

Are there perimeter drain tiles that lead to a sump pit?

Is your wildow below grade or above?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Whats the grading like?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Also, how good is the seal at the vertical edges, where the well meets the walls?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

federer said:


> also on the inside you can see light coming in from the gap between window and block wall.
> 
> question is-what do i do with this!
> -take window out and block it in
> ...



Where is the Gap? How big?


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

have someone check the pump. if the drain field around the bottom of the pump has been there long it is probably clogged up with dirt and it needs a new drain field if the pump works, or a new pump....


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

You've got to find out where the water is coming from first. Solve that first, otherwise anything you do with the window will just keep getting ruined. Seriously. A better picture of the area and a description would help. There are a lot of ways you can deal with water problems, but you WILL have to do something about it. Otherwise the situation will likely get worse. And do it now while the weather's agreeable.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

well so my basement is flooding from sandy! from this window! 

so mad

there is a sump pump in the well but its broken. so i have been spending the last 6hrs sucking up water via vacum and dumping it. the well is under ground level. i will upload some pics tomorrow if i am not too tired from sandy.

hope everyone else made it safe!


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

mae-ling said:


> Where is the Gap? How big?


the gap is about 1inch below framing


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

so question: instead of doing grading,gutters etc etc ( we already put in new gutters) would it be better to just basically install a patio out back so all surface water will just run off? my brother insists all we need is a sump pump and battery back up, but thats not fail proof to me. battery dies, sump pump valve breaks, sump pump not pumping fast enough, etc etc. am i right?


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Grading would, in theory, be a 'do it once and be done with it' scenario. Especially if you arranged a drain underground as part of the process to divert whatever might collect further away from the house. A french drain sort of setup doesn't have to take all the water away, just provide a wider area for it to seep naturally into the surrounding soil. 

Might seem like a lot of work/expense, but certainly less than the hassle of dealing with water leaking in over and over.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

There should not be an open gap between the window frame and the rough opening (foundation concrete, etc.). Fill the gap using appropriate materials, I think a strip of thin Plexiglas and perhaps some wood shims (not on the side against the concrete) together with caulk will do. Or caulk only if the gap is extremely thin with the window frame making contact with the concrete here and there.

The "bottom" of the window well must be below the edge of the concrete so any water that may collect there won't arbitrarily run up against the caulked joint (or into the gap if you haven't filled it yet).

No significant amount of water should ever collect in the well. Otherwise the land outside the well needs regrading and at any rate the earth should be packed tightly against the metal window well shell.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wkearney99 said:


> Grading would, in theory, be a 'do it once and be done with it' scenario. Especially if you arranged a drain underground as part of the process to divert whatever might collect further away from the house. A french drain sort of setup doesn't have to take all the water away, just provide a wider area for it to seep naturally into the surrounding soil.
> 
> Might seem like a lot of work/expense, but certainly less than the hassle of dealing with water leaking in over and over.


we kind of graded about a year ago. that didnt turn out well. so you dont think putting in a new surface is a better solution?


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

here we go some pics:


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)




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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)




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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

this is level of water now. its no longer rising, which is good news. just standing water. the well is about 6ft high, with the sump pump but its not operational


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

you can kind of see how high water was. the water was leaking in at the bottom of teh window frame (white)


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

federer said:


> we kind of graded about a year ago. that didnt turn out well. so you dont think putting in a new surface is a better solution?


It would depend on how it was graded. The point is to avoid letting water run toward the house. And when it's redirected, get it to somewhere that will let it disperse. This is dependent on what kind of soil is present too. If it's clay soil (like we have) then you can't expect much of the water to be absorbed into it. Putting soil on top of clay doesn't help, the water hits the clay and then follows gravity (downward) along the surface until it hits something else (like the house foundation). 

So it's common to run a trench along a line parallel to the house and line it with a french drain sort of setup. Basically landscape cloth, a lot of gravel in the bottom, perforated drain hose, covered in more gravel and then soil on top of it. The point is for water to hit that soil, seep down through it into the gravel and into the drain hose, where it's redirected along the downward length, seeping out into the gravel along the way. If possible it helps to have the end of the drain dump out somewhere else that can take the overflow. On the surface you don't really see anything.

This is also how a french drain at the bottom of your foundation is supposed to work, more or less. Window well drains usually dump into this. This way the water finds an easier path away from the house instead of pooling up down along the foundation, eventually seeping through it. But like any other sort of drain they do need to remain clear. It's not uncommon for them to collapse or get clogged, just as any other sewer drain might. Having them cleaned out is likewise as important.

You've got to determine where the water is coming from any create ways to redirect that water at points farther away from the house. Grading is important, but so is managing rain gutter run-off. Find ways to let gravity do the work of letting the water move away from the foundation.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

thanks for the input-so by putting in a patio or something like that wouldnt that solve any of these issues you mentioned?no clogs, no maintenances, etc.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

You'd need to make sure the water has a way to stay away from the house. Doing something away from the house helps keep water away. As in, having a drain trench when the yard slopes down toward the house serves as a way to catch the water before it gets all the way to the house. 

So it depends on where the water is coming from.

Putting a patio down would probably not help. At least not without knowing where all the water is coming from BEFORE putting anything down. Otherwise you run the risk of the problem still happening and then having to destroy the patio to deal with fixing it.

How is the water getting there?


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wkearney99 said:


> You'd need to make sure the water has a way to stay away from the house. Doing something away from the house helps keep water away. As in, having a drain trench when the yard slopes down toward the house serves as a way to catch the water before it gets all the way to the house.
> 
> So it depends on where the water is coming from.
> 
> ...


thanks! yea. so for sandy this time the source is over saturation of the soil. because when it rained before the water would seep through but not enough to cause it to rise in the well much. but the last couple days non stop finally pushed it over the edge. we put a new rood and gutters on 2yrs ago so all of that is fine. there is no leak from upstairs, so its not roof. gutters are clear. its basically just water running against the basment wall/window. so i am 99% sure its surface water. hence my surface solution.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah, but surface from where else? Water runs down hill. Is there some point where the water is coming down and then draining toward the house?

If there's some sort of down slope nearby that could be collecting the water which then sweeps along the surface layer of soil over toward your house.

Around here we've got a lot of clay. There's only soil for the first 12-18". Water seeps through that, hits the clay and then runs along the top of the clay down toward the houses. I put a trench uphill of one and it greatly cut back on the amount of water that got to the foundation. The backyard had an uphill slope, with about a 12' flat section, most of which was covered by solid concrete patio and some bluestone slabs. Then the lawn sloped up a slight hill for another 50' or so. So a flat patio surface near the house wasn't helping. 

The trench went in at about 15' from the house and pretty much eliminated most moisture issues on that basement wall. The interesting thing was the trench didn't dump straight out anywhere. It was mainly just a gravel-filled trench with the landscaper's cloth lining it, filled with about 1' of gravel, then a perforated 4" drain hose, another 2' of gravel then a foot of soil. The ends elbowed and came up to pop-up drain covers. Even with the recent hurricane downpours (much less than the local news hyped) they still didn't pop up with any overflow. 

If they'd ever overflowed the idea was to go back and see about draining one side or the other further down around one side of the house. Hasn't been needed because the trench with it's gravel lining is giving the water somewhere to disperse rather than running along the clay layer and against the house.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

so water is leaking in from the inside of the window well from teh rain. what do i do now!!!!!!!


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Nothing. If you won't listen to advice then youre not going to solve the problems.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wkearney99 said:


> Nothing. If you won't listen to advice then youre not going to solve the problems.


ok so let me elaborate on my last post. first, i dont know if you noticed that i actually thanked you for your post and advice last time. 2nd, water was coming in so i only had 2minutes literraly to make my post today. 3rd, where did i ever say i wasnt listening to advice.

but since you dont really know the whole story anyway its best i dont listen to advice. 

if anyone else would like to chime in please do so i am all ears.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

May I suggest you get a new pump into the well before you do anything else?

DC has some low areas with a high water table---ground water---if that is the case no amount of grading is going to stop that well from filling----you don't get deep freezing there very often so the external pump should be safe---

Most modern houses have drain piping running around the outside of the foundation---leading into a pit inside the house.

I'm guessing your home is older and does not have that nice feature---so the well will gather water---with no where to go---except into the window.

So replace the pump($) or dig around the footings and add a drain to an inside pit--($$$$$)

Not what you wanted to hear,perhaps,but the facts as I see them.----Mike----


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I feel your frustration---thanks for putting up with us---Mike----


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

federer said:


> ok so let me elaborate on my last post. first, i dont know if you noticed that i actually thanked you for your post and advice last time. 2nd, water was coming in so i only had 2minutes literraly to make my post today. 3rd, where did i ever say i wasnt listening to advice.
> 
> but since you dont really know the whole story anyway its best i dont listen to advice.
> 
> if anyone else would like to chime in please do so i am all ears.


Hopefully this will clear up with the dryer weather coming up.

Feel free to PM me and if I am in town, I will stop by and lend and eye and some suggestions.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> May I suggest you get a new pump into the well before you do anything else?
> 
> DC has some low areas with a high water table---ground water---if that is the case no amount of grading is going to stop that well from filling----you don't get deep freezing there very often so the external pump should be safe---
> 
> ...


mike! thanks for stopping by.
so yea there was a old pump in the window-not sure if you can see from the pics.

so long story short-i wake up today around 11. relax for a little go down to check window. water is coming up fast! i start using the 6gal vac and sucking water up, and do this for over 2hrs straight, with no break! my back is killing me now. finally my brother comes home early and we try to take the old pump out to put in new one. the problem was the water kept rising so we had to keep sucking. finally we said f*ck it and tossed the new pump into the window. voila! but our pvc pipe did not have elbow so water was shooting up then coming back in haha!

so we had to go out cut the pvc pipe, fit an elbow, and then we finally got it under control. the only issue left is to take the old pump out. it was stuck real good in the mud. after forever, we finally pry it out, and now the new sump is working fine. WHAT A DAY!

we basically worked non stop for over 5hrs to get to where we are now. exhausted. 

but yes our home is like 1950 so we dont have the drain coming in. we might take the advice and put a trench outside to carry water away from foundation. also we are going to try to build a retaining wall because our neighbors house slopes down to our yard at a good steep slope.
pics to come later!


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> I feel your frustration---thanks for putting up with us---Mike----


mike you have been nothing but help. my post was not directed at you at all. it was only for one person. thank you


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

just to add to the mess today-i stepped on a nail yesterday so spent over 3hrs in ER on christmas day, and so i had to do everything with a limp today. NOT FUN i didint even get to fill my prescription until it was all over today.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Work related injury!!! Workmans comp!:laughing:

Oh, you're the boss--so you get to pay.:laughing:


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> Work related injury!!! Workmans comp!:laughing:
> 
> Oh, you're the boss--so you get to pay.:laughing:


:laughing:yea i wish......the crappy part is since we went to ER they said its about $1000 bill........


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

federer said:


> but since you dont really know the whole story...


True, but what I do know is the thread is over two months old. With no posts indicating effective action was being taken. Meanwhile there was plenty of excellent weather in which something should have been done, and wasn't. Now you're facing winter, with ground freezes and the rest of the complications that come with it. Don't forget just how much meltwater there is when things warm up after a snowfall...

Glad to hear you've finally gotten around to BEGIN addressing the problem. Sorry 'bout the nail.

Check out the TV show "Home Wreckers" on HGTV:
http://www.hgtv.com/homewreckers/show/index.html
It's got some great coverage of what serious problems can develop when important steps aren't taken in a timely manner. 

Now, go get the rest of the problem sorted out and DONE.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

federer said:


> mike! thanks for stopping by.
> so yea there was a old pump in the window-not sure if you can see from the pics.
> 
> so long story short-i wake up today around 11. relax for a little go down to check window. water is coming up fast! i start using the 6gal vac and sucking water up, and do this for over 2hrs straight, with no break! my back is killing me now. finally my brother comes home early and we try to take the old pump out to put in new one. the problem was the water kept rising so we had to keep sucking. finally we said f*ck it and tossed the new pump into the window. voila! but our pvc pipe did not have elbow so water was shooting up then coming back in haha!
> ...



it seems that you have had quite the time with water invasion. water does not let up when it pours for sure!

one thing you will want to do asap is to make sure no muck is being sucked up into the new pump, that is probably the main cause of failure in the old pump and will start deteriorating the new pump right away if nothing is done about it. clean out old drain field, put in new drain field with some type of dirt barrier if possible.

I stepped on a ring shank galvanized framing nail in the summer while toting a heavy exterior door and stepping down off of a pile of wood,not the most desirable experience with the weight of the door in my hands exacerbating the situation- me and the door dropped to the ground instantly. A few blue words,I yanked the piece of lumber with the nail stuck to my foot off and a limp for a few days it was all better. After seeing your bill at the hospital I'm glad I decided to just limp around until it healed...


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

hand drive said:


> it seems that you have had quite the time with water invasion. water does not let up when it pours for sure!
> 
> one thing you will want to do asap is to make sure no muck is being sucked up into the new pump, that is probably the main cause of failure in the old pump and will start deteriorating the new pump right away if nothing is done about it. clean out old drain field, put in new drain field with some type of dirt barrier if possible.
> 
> I stepped on a ring shank galvanized framing nail in the summer while toting a heavy exterior door and stepping down off of a pile of wood,not the most desirable experience with the weight of the door in my hands exacerbating the situation- me and the door dropped to the ground instantly. A few blue words,I yanked the piece of lumber with the nail stuck to my foot off and a limp for a few days it was all better. After seeing your bill at the hospital I'm glad I decided to just limp around until it healed...


definitely. water is the worst. it gives you no choice.

wow you had it worse than me and walked it off. i was panicking. i thought this was what being stabbed felt like. yea the bill is going f*ck me in the......


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

That picture with the pump outside in the window well is one of the strangest things I've seen here, and that's saying ALOT!!!!!!

Maybe I skipped over the answer as it was asked earlier, but do you have a draintile system of any kind that leads to an interior sump pit???

I've been through similar issues in the past, and rigging together a pump with a 5 gallon bucket sump was never a decent repair........


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

jomama45 said:


> That picture with the pump outside in the window well is one of the strangest things I've seen here, and that's saying ALOT!!!!!!
> 
> Maybe I skipped over the answer as it was asked earlier, but do you have a draintile system of any kind that leads to an interior sump pit???
> 
> I've been through similar issues in the past, and rigging together a pump with a 5 gallon bucket sump was never a decent repair........


yea you are right. it is very strange. 

so we have 2 sump pits inside, but its not operational. we are trying to decide on best course of action. our thinking right now is to go outside and lay down a huge sheet of plastic over the yard on top of the soil, and then cover it with clay to prevent it from draining in. because the water is coming in from the saturation, not surface run off


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

federer said:


> yea you are right. it is very strange.
> 
> so we have 2 sump pits inside, but its not operational. we are trying to decide on best course of action. our thinking right now is to go outside and lay down a huge sheet of plastic over the yard on top of the soil, and then cover it with clay to prevent it from draining in. because the water is coming in from the saturation, not surface run off


But unless you find the source of the water that likely won't do anything at all. You've got to determine WHERE the water is coming from and DEAL with that. Just putting a tarp don't won't do squat if the water is coming in along places outside of the area the tarp would cover (which is pretty likely). If you're not prepared to prevent the water from getting close to the house then your only real option is to dig down along the foundation, put in a better french drain tile system and seal up the foundation, along with dimple cloth on it. This way whatever water gets to the house will flow down to the drain tile and get pumped away from the house. This would likely be a sump pit inside the basement.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wkearney99 said:


> But unless you find the source of the water that likely won't do anything at all. You've got to determine WHERE the water is coming from and DEAL with that. Just putting a tarp don't won't do squat if the water is coming in along places outside of the area the tarp would cover (which is pretty likely). If you're not prepared to prevent the water from getting close to the house then your only real option is to dig down along the foundation, put in a better french drain tile system and seal up the foundation, along with dimple cloth on it. This way whatever water gets to the house will flow down to the drain tile and get pumped away from the house. This would likely be a sump pit inside the basement.


so let me go over this with you:
*the source of the water is coming in from the saturation of the soil. as the water seeps down via gravity it eventually comes in through the side of teh window well where it leaks. the yard is sloped in such a way from our neighbor that it runs towards the window well. so by putting a tarp down, it will prevent water from going into teh soil, thus stopping saturation. make sense??? *

in the future we will implement permananet solution. unless you would like to donate couple $$$$ to us then i will be happy to fix this asap, next week if you like. if i really had $, i may have bought a house in bethesda like you. life sucks for some of us


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

anyways, update for you guys! again, i really appreciate most of you guys coming here and taking the time to take a look and offer input. i feel like such a part of community here. thank you. now money is a constant issue, so here is our solution until say april 2013. 

so as i stated, water was seeping in through crack in window well from over saturation in the soil. so we decided for now to cover up the soil, thus preventing water from even seeping into the soil in the future,hopefully preventing any more leaks. in addition, we installed sump pump as a back up. 
*
some pictures as promised!*


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

this is looking straight down into window


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

this gives better angle of where water was coming in: you can see the water line stain on the concrete block: 
(yes it was coming up that high!!)


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

this is our solution for now. the plastic is 10 by 20 feet. the plywood is where window well is


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

pump pvc discharge line


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

federer said:


> so let me go over this with you:
> *the source of the water is coming in from the saturation of the soil. as the water seeps down via gravity it eventually comes in through the side of teh window well where it leaks. the yard is sloped in such a way from our neighbor that it runs towards the window well. so by putting a tarp down, it will prevent water from going into teh soil, thus stopping saturation. make sense??? *
> 
> in the future we will implement permananet solution. unless you would like to donate couple $$$$ to us then i will be happy to fix this asap, next week if you like. if i really had $, i may have bought a house in bethesda like you. life sucks for some of us


Unless you're dealing with a high water table it's not a matter of soil saturation. Now, as a result of water running in from somewhere else the soil may have BECOME saturated. Putting a cover over saturated soil is likely to prevent the soil in there from drying! You'd be keeping the current problem and quite possibly make it worse.

If you can get an idea where the water is running along then it'd be a relatively cheap solution to just dig a trench along that line and put down gravel and a perforated drain tile hose. This would give the water some place to pool 'upstream' of your house. From there it could percolate down into the soil instead of just running along the clay layer straight toward your house. The hose doesn't even need to be connected to an outflow but it would be a good idea to have a plan for one anyway. An elbow at each end with a pop-up drain would let you see if water managed to fill it. Just think about where a longer stretch of pipe would have to run in order to truly drain the water to somewhere else.

Perforated drain hose is pretty cheap. Just don't buy the gravel by the bag, it's a LOT less expensive to have a stone company deliver it to you in bulk. Then it's just your sweat equity with a shovel, or hire some laborers cheap.

Your tarp idea isn't entirely screwy, except for thinking of laying it horizontally; that's just plain wrong. You'd want to line the trench on the side that faces the house with landscaper's cloth. This helps act as a barrier to encourage the water to drain down to the gravel and pipe. 

Once you've got that trench down there you'd back fill it and it'd never look like anything was down there, save for the pop-ups or a drain box.

This isn't a class warfare argument, don't make it one. It's a matter of simple common sense and methodical thinking. 

Meanwhile, I give up. Good luck sorting it out.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

so its working! checking the level from yesterday and today, and not even a bit of water is getting through! solution is success!


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wkearney99 said:


> Unless you're dealing with a high water table it's not a matter of soil saturation. Now, as a result of water running in from somewhere else the soil may have BECOME saturated. Putting a cover over saturated soil is likely to prevent the soil in there from drying! You'd be keeping the current problem and quite possibly make it worse.
> 
> If you can get an idea where the water is running along then it'd be a relatively cheap solution to just dig a trench along that line and put down gravel and a perforated drain tile hose. This would give the water some place to pool 'upstream' of your house. From there it could percolate down into the soil instead of just running along the clay layer straight toward your house. The hose doesn't even need to be connected to an outflow but it would be a good idea to have a plan for one anyway. An elbow at each end with a pop-up drain would let you see if water managed to fill it. Just think about where a longer stretch of pipe would have to run in order to truly drain the water to somewhere else.
> 
> ...


appreciate your input


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

ok so its coming in slightly, but nothing to worry about


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Good!!

You bought yourself some time to figure out a solution to the neighbors 
yard draining into your window---It's never easy when you are the lowest guy on the block.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> Good!!
> 
> You bought yourself some time to figure out a solution to the neighbors
> yard draining into your window---It's never easy when you are the lowest guy on the block.


thats exactly the case. our street slopes downward and we are the last house on the corner in the intersection. so we are the lowest.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

so now we gotta figure out the best solution given all the factors: soil slope, type of soil, grading, budget etc


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Any progress?


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