# calling Ed the roofer & other roof experts



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

UGH!!! .... = NO!


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## ron schenker (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm no expert but I think they should have used flashing instead of shingles.


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

1- The shingles weren't properly woven.

2- Once reinstalled properly, the debris trapped in the valley will be a continual problem until you cut back the trees that are dropping their waste onto the roof.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Lawnguy, that's exactly what I thought, I can't imagine shingle edges being laid like this because all they do is trap stuff under them. I knew they weren't right! This dude that owned this place was a total knucklehead! So what are my options? I don't mind cleaning debris off the roof regularly, that's one of the trade offs of living in a wooded lot, I am an arborist after all, I like the trees, I just hate 1/2#%*ssed work! How long do you think I have before this really becomes a problem? Nothings leaking and I constantly check the roof in the attic for any leaks.


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Just call a roofer - it's a 1 - 2 hour fix. You're not getting leaks but that doesn't mean rain isn't getting under the overlap, and running down the roofing felt, and probably always moist.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

A 1-2hr fix? That doesn't sound too bad. Is it just a matter of cutting and tucking or adding some, or are you talking putting in one of those little gutters that goes down the center like all the other houses in our neighborhood.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

hopefully it`s a 1/2 hr fix,looks like crap,If the shingles are laid like that,they are probably not nailed properly to be cut back to off center of the valley---you may have to remove the valley shingles on each side ,and redo it which will take much longer-no matter how you look at it,It`s not done to the standard of the craft !This is what closed woven valleys should look like:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

don`t have a close up,but when one side is weaved up,and the other is cut,it should look like this:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

the open copper valley is always the best looking though(+most expensive):


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## ron schenker (Jan 15, 2006)

the roofing god said:


> the open copper valley is always the best looking though(+most expensive):


That's what I was thinking of. This looks right.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks everbody! roofing god, that's how I would expect it to look, that looks nice! There's 2 valleys that need to be done. Man I wish I could do this myself. Now I'm a little worried about the rest of the roof. I'll contact someone tomorrow! Thanks again!


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with a woven valley if it's done right. Nothing wrong with exposed flashing, copper or otherwise either, as long as it's done right. Yours just happens to be done wrong. "Like all the other houses in the neighborhood" is not a roofing code.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

that`s why you see 3 alternative right ways to do it,bottom line wrong is wrong


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

the roofing god said:


> hopefully it`s a 1/2 hr fix,looks like crap,If the shingles are laid like that,they are probably not nailed properly to be cut back to off center of the valley---you may have to remove the valley shingles on each side ,and redo it which will take much longer-no matter how you look at it,*It`s not done to the standard of the craft* !This is what closed woven valleys should look like:


R.G. touches on the point of that area not being done right, but very wrong. 

Sorry to bring this up, but: I'd be concerned about the rest of the roof's installation after seeing something as wrong as that....


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Atlantic, exactly my point , now I have big concerns about the rest of the roof as well. This guy was no roofer. This house sat for two years vacant and when he realized it wasn't going to sell unless he put a roof on he decided to tackle it himself, except I didn't find that out until after I bought it (that he had done the roof himself). My guess is , is that he got to the valleys and didn't know what to do so he just overlapped them a lot thinking he would be allright. Don't you have to have a permit to do a roof and several inspections, or does that vary from place to place?


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

a homeowner can usually get away with pulling a permit and doing it,but it should be inspected by the bldg. dept. for a certificate of occupancy(c.o.),Atlantic is right(I didn`t want to rain on your parade any worse),have a pro check it out,and see how the rest of the roof is nailed,lapped ,flashed etc.---did you have a bldg. inspector look at the house before you bought it---unfortunately,they don`t always do a good job on a roof inspection,and I feel you should always have a professional roofer look over roofs,before you buy a house--where are you located,we may have a member near you,or be able to recommend someone to look at it for you


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## pavola (Nov 13, 2007)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> R.G. touches on the point of that area not being done right, but very wrong.
> 
> Sorry to bring this up, but: I'd be concerned about the rest of the roof's installation after seeing something as wrong as that....


That's what I think when I see something done like this.:huh: Makes you want to hope it was a HO "I'll do it to save money" job instead of a qualified roofing contractor, although there are plenty of hacks out there too.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Roofing God, I'm in Ft. Wayne, IN. and we've been getting a fair amount of snow. I know a few roofers, but don't know there work very well. I had a semi- retired roofer buy a truck from me last year, said he was doing a lot of small repair work. I know he had to be at least a 30-40yr. veteran of the trade, so I think I'll call him first, but if you guys know someone in my area, by all means let me know. Thank you all for the imput!


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

It appears that they did the roof area that has the sewer vent and then laid the shingles on the other side of the valley rather than weaving the two areas as the roof was installed. Poor job. Hope they installed ice and water shield or other material under the valley.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

I got a feeling the only thing under that valley is the underlayment.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

I know 1 in Indy,and 1 in kouts,lthere`s another guy here from Indiana also,lwhere I don`t know,ridgewalker-i believe


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

RidgeWalker is around Indianapolis.

Ed


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

That semi-retired roofer that I talked about ealier getting a hold of; his son in law called me a couple of hours ago and said his father-in-law had passed away 6 months ago and that he had taken over the business. He's going to stop out at the beginning of next week, I'll let you know what he says. Thanks everyone, can't tell how much I appreciate it!:thumbup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 18, 2007)

That seems as though it may be a Half -Weave,where the shingles on the apposing side should run up past the valley by at least 12'" on the high side.
It may be as simple as snapping a line just outside the center of the valley (about2 1/2")and cutting the top layer of shingles(using shingle snips) .(careful here)
Lift up the shingles(it seems that the ends are loose) as much as you dare and see if you can see where the other shingles underneath end.If you can't see the end because appears to go under the top layer in the valley this may be the case.
Some people call this a California Weave around here and is used when the roof pitches are different,but it also used widely as an alternative to a full weave.
Best bet is to call a qualified roofer,who is familiar with this type of weave.
The top corner of the cut shingles have to be "rounded off" to keep water in the valley from following along this edge horizontally past your valley underlayment.
Hopefully it was just an over sight on the roofers side and they just forgot to make that final cut.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

hate to disagree with you oldfrt,but if you look at the 2nd pic at the top area the shingles are over so much,there`s ,less than a ft left,secured to the right side of the valley,that would be going too far and if cut would be a leak sooner than later due to the nails proximity to the valley,Timber said the guy was no roofer,and I agree,but I hope to hear the results of the inspection from Timber as well


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

The guy that is stopping over mentioned that there was a weave called a "Western" weave and that it could be that. Is that the same as the California weave that oldfrt is talking about?


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

california cut:lower and/or slighter pitch roof weaves 12-18" up onto opposing section,lother section is installed to/or past center line of valley,then cut slightly off center
closed weaved:both sides of the valley are laid in lapping 12-18"onto opposing roof surface,they are intermingled(1 from left,1 from right)


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

ca







lifornia cut/weave:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

c







closed /double closed weave:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

never heard of western(more than cali ??)


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the explanation I appreciate you taken so much time for that, I just don't want to feel to ignorant when I'm talking to this guy. I want to make sure I'm not creating another problem.


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## oldfrt (Oct 18, 2007)

timber said:


> Thanks for the explanation I appreciate you taken so much time for that, I just don't want to feel to ignorant when I'm talking to this guy. I want to make sure I'm not creating another problem.


 No problemo,

Don't forget to let us know how you make out.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Definitely:thumbsup:


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## TomBrooklyn (Jan 6, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Sorry to bring this up, but: I'd be concerned about the rest of the roof's installation after seeing something as wrong as that....


Me too. That valley is whack.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

*Thanks Roofers!*

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that the roofer I called stopped over to check my vallies and he said everything was ok,:thumbsup: they just didn't do the finish cut on the vallies once they got done with them. He said no homeowner did the roof, it was professionally done. I found out that the homeowner just helped on the job and that he had done a trade deal for some landscaping (homeowner was a landscaper; if you want to call him that) with a buddy of his who was a roofer. Apparently, the HO was supposed to do some of the clean-up and odds and ends and didn't get them done before I bought the house and the inspector never caught it (he also didn't catch that there were not enough roof vents):whistling2: . My guy is going to come back when it warms up; he said I could do it, but I told him I don't think I'll mess with it! He also said I had really good shingles, like 25 yr ones, so I'm feeling a lot better. I just want to say thanks to everybody who helped me on this: roofing God, Ed, Lawnguy, Atlantic, ron schenker and anybody else, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it! I'm very greatful to have found this sight! I'm just mad I didin't find it sooner!:laughing:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

the 2nd pic you put up seemed to have the shingle end seams too close to the valley,also nails shouldn`t be closer than a foot away from the valley centerline (???)


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

the second photo did seem to have the shingle end seams too close to the valley at the top area of the valley,and no nails should be within the distance of your shoe from the valley center,please double check that area as it seemed from the overlap that you had 6-8 shingles that don`t meet that criteria


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll ask him about that; He did say he could feel the overlapped shingles on the other side of the valley and that they were well past center.


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

timber said:


> Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that the roofer I called stopped over to check my vallies and he said everything was ok,:thumbsup:


That is good to hear.


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## oldfrt (Oct 18, 2007)

Good to hear timber.

Thanks for the update.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

And Thank You!


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## Tree Frog Roofer (Feb 10, 2008)

timber said:


> A while ago I put in a thread about the shingles in the roof valleys not looking right and you needed some pics to let me know if these valleys were shingled correctly. If you recall I said that I was getting a lot of debris underneath them and I feared that this would start to rot out my shingles or my roof. Nothings leaking but I constantly have to blow the debris out from underneath these things. Can you see what I'm talking about from these pics? Thanks in advance for the help.


 
Actually it looks like the roofer did what is known as a California cut valley. He layed the bottom barrier layer across the valley, and then layed the top layer across but forgot to cut them. Find your center point top and bottom, then chalk a line down the valley, Get a good utility knife and install a hook blade into it, starting top to bottom cut your shingles, while slightly lifting them so as not to cut your bottom layer. That should solve your problem. It doesn't look like he did the valley wrong he just didn't finish it!


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

TFR, you forgot cutting out the tops. Assuming everything else is OK.


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## timber (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks Treefrog and tinner, I don't know if you saw the earlier posts, but I had a guy come out and take a look at it and actually he explained it exactly like you treefrog. He's going to come out and take care of it for me when the temps warm up here. Thanks again everyone!


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