# Help retaining Wall 6x6 Timbers, out of plumb



## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

Hello, 

I started a timber wall the other day...I dug my trench, leveled the dirt as best as i could...tamped the ground....I then laid down stone, tamped that...leveled it.

I put my first timber in 6x6x8 checked my level(length) then plumb(front to back...is that what plumb is?). The wall will only be about 3ft high...

I started to hammer in my 4ft re-bar through the pre-drilled holes and as i continued i noticed that my level(length) stayed but not the plumb now i have this first timber in the ground and it's out of plumb....is there anything i can do to straighten it out? 

if i pull the timber out and start over...how can i prevent this from happening again? Any suggestions on how to pull the timber out?

My wife is predicting i'm going to fail, so any help would be more than appreciated.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The grading needed to be dead level in both directions before the first one when in or it's going to be further and further out the higher you go.
Also I bet your missing drainage and a dead man to keep it from tipping.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...20B95FCA8DFA73A8F198BFC15CB38&selectedIndex=3


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

joecaption said:


> The grading needed to be dead level in both directions before the first one when in or it's going to be further and further out the higher you go.
> Also I bet your missing drainage and a dead man to keep it from tipping.
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...20B95FCA8DFA73A8F198BFC15CB38&selectedIndex=3



I only have one timber down and i did check level in both direction after i tamped the stones...I also do have a 4" perforated pipe that i will be be installing behind the first course and will also be installing a dead man on the 3rd row.

is it possible that hammering in the re-bar shifted my base?


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

carneyxii said:


> I only have one timber down and i did check level in both direction after i tamped the stones...I also do have a 4" perforated pipe that i will be be installing behind the first course and will also be installing a dead man on the 3rd row.
> 
> is it possible that hammering in the re-bar shifted my base?


Yes. What are you using for your base?


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## brockmiera (Oct 9, 2012)

Plumb is level but in the vertical direction. so you would check for plumb at the vertical face of your 6x6. Pictures will help tremendously. We'll get you thru this but more information is needed.


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

red92s said:


> Yes. What are you using for your base?


My base is an all purpose stone...rocks are all different shapes and sizes.


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

carneyxii said:


> My base is an all purpose stone...rocks are all different shapes and sizes.


Can you be more specific when you say "all shapes and sizes"? Are you talking stuff larger than ~1"?


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

brockmiera said:


> Plumb is level but in the vertical direction. so you would check for plumb at the vertical face of your 6x6. Pictures will help tremendously. We'll get you thru this but more information is needed.


thank you, i'll send you some pictures when I get home


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

red92s said:


> Can you be more specific when you say "all shapes and sizes"? Are you talking stuff larger than ~1"?


the stones are not larger than 1" there are a few that are about an inch in size, but most are smaller.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I would have used stone dust or crush and run.


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

i'm starting to feel that my base is the issue


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## brockmiera (Oct 9, 2012)

carneyxii said:


> i'm starting to feel that my base is the issue


Yeah I think I agree. Using that big of a stone is hard to compact and get a level surface to build on. Did you use a hand tamp or a compacting plate / vibrating type gas powered tamp?


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Best material for base is a medium to coarse sand, or crushed stone 1/4 inch in diameter or smaller. I have used stone dust also, it works, but I prefer sand. Makes it easy to tamp the base level in both directions. It is easy to get the first unit of a wall out of plumb or out of level, and as you have discovered, the rest of the wall only gets worse.


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

Here are a few pictures I mainly wanted to show the base stone. The re-bar is 1/2" so you can see that my stones do exceed 1". 

I already pulled the first timber out. 
Can I use this stone to back fill? So it won't go to waste?


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

That gravel looks very coarse for a base material. I think you will struggle to get it packed well enough to form a solid base that won't shift once you start driving rebar. It would probably be okay to use for the drainage rock _behind_ the wall, but for the base you really want something that is going to compact tightly. I'd recommend using something like crusher run for the base; it will be much easier to get a tight, level, starting point. Home Depot sells 1 ton bags of it (under $50) if you've got a truck to pick it up with, or bulk stone/landscape material places should have it as well. It stinks to go backwards, but at least you have only done 10' or so at this point, and can likely reuse what you've got in there behind the wall. 

How high is this wall going to be? Just tall enough to hold back that little slope where you have removed sod (~2-3 courses above grade)?

Also, I don't see how the current position of your toe drain will allow you to run it to daylight. It is below the grade of the sidewalk all around. You'd likely need to install it on TOP of the material that is backfilled behind the bottom course.


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

red92s said:


> How high is this wall going to be? Just tall enough to hold back that little slope where you have removed sod (~2-3 courses above grade)?
> 
> Also, I don't see how the current position of your toe drain will allow you to run it to daylight. It is below the grade of the sidewalk all around. You'd likely need to install it on TOP of the material that is backfilled behind the bottom course.



The highest part of the wall is going to be slightly higher than the top step in the background about 3ft, i'm going to have my wall make take a 90degree turn into the hill, and i'll be adding a mulch and flower bed where the grass is now.

The drain pipe will not be placed where it is in the photo, it's going to go above the first coarse.


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

how does this sound 2 A sub base (modified) for my base and 3/4" quarry stone to back fill. 

good?


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

carneyxii said:


> how does this sound 2 A sub base (modified) for my base and 3/4" quarry stone to back fill.
> 
> good?


Should be. The 2A base might have some big rocks that make it tough to get the top perfectly level. Just pluck those out and fill in with some of the finer material when you are compacting the top.

Are you just using a hand tamper? I doubt a plate compactor would even fit in a trench that narrow?


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## carneyxii (Jun 6, 2012)

Is there another stone you suggest. I live just outside of Philadelphia if there is a place that delivers the right stuff I'd love to know. 

I looked at www.mulch-it.com to find the 2a base

I have an 8x8 tamp


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

carneyxii said:


> Is there another stone you suggest. I live just outside of Philadelphia if there is a place that delivers the right stuff I'd love to know.
> 
> I looked at www.mulch-it.com to find the 2a base
> 
> I have an 8x8 tamp


It's very regional what things are called. Looks like essentially a road base material, which should be good. It should compact nice and tight, especially if you wet it lightly during tamping. Only tamp ~2" at a time. On your top layer you can pluck out the big stones to get a nice flat surface. Wouldn't be a terrible idea to use the same material BEHIND the first course as backfill as well, and then have your drain line on top of that.


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