# Foam Insulate All Basement Walls?



## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

yes, insualte all walls. I use 2" XPS foam board, and prefer the type with notches in it to allow furring strips. I glue the foam to the wall then screw the furring stripsthru the foam, to the wall with tapcons. The guarantees the foam will stay in place and gives you a place to hang drywall or other wall covering.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Be careful with the furnace room. All foam needs to be covered because it is flammable and creates overpowering fumes when it burns. If you're not planning to build a wall in front of it in certain areas then you should not use it. I think all cities require it to be covered by code.


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you for the response. I was going to use the 2” XPS foam board and use liquid nails to attach it to the concrete. As for the furnace room, this is just a storage area. It will be walled off from the main finished basement. I was going to put storage shelves in this area. So it sounds like I should NOT put the foam on the walls in this storage/furnace area. Since this is not living area, I probably do not need to insulate those walls at all, correct? Just leave the concrete exposed. As for foam board, I should use it any where I am going to stud in front off and then put sheet rock over, even the finished basement bathroom, correct?


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes, you should use it on all perimeter walls that you are also planning on framing and finishing a wall in front of. Use canned spray foam and tape to seal it up. I believe 2 inch will act somewhat as a vapor barrier, so I don't think you want to put any 6 mil poly up. Some people say not to put any vapor barrier in a basement anyway.


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## Rooki (Nov 30, 2011)

*Foam Board*

I would check on the use of Liquid Nails for foam board....

Im also putting up 2 inch XPS on my basement walls and bought specific foam board adhesive because most of the others will melt the foam board. 

I was informed that liquid nails could not be used for XPS board.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

PL300 works well. I'll double check, but I think that's it.


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## Trucon01 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey Viking. I'm doing the same thing with the XPS. Here is what I go back from the Drylok folks.

"Thank you for contacting us. In regard to your question, once the final coat of DRYLOK Extreme has been cured for a full 48 hours, you can lay the foam up against the DRYLOK. In order to do this, you would need to use a water based construction adhesive such as Liquid Nails to adhere the foam. It is important to use a water based adhesive as a solvent, polyurethane, or epoxy based adhesive will bite into the DRYLOK and will soften it.  Hope this helps to answer your question. Please let us know if you have any additional concerns.​ Melissa"

Liquid nails Heavy Duty does work with XPS foam, I checked on that too.
​


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Many of the problems with compatibility of adhesives come from using EPS foam that is not really acceptable or practical for insulation. There are many adhesives that work well with XPS because of the foam density and chemistry.

Adding Drylok into the situation adds some problems because it is a "paint-type" coating. there are other wall coatings that are well established through the years and are more resistant to chemicals and are more compatible with concrete walls.

Dick


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## psilva8 (Jan 12, 2012)

I am assuming that you will be putting 2" foam on walls (approx. R10) and a R12 batt in the framing? Have you weighed the difference in price between this method and spray foaming the basement?

Secondly, I would still insulate the furnace room by more traditional means with 2x4 construction and batt insulation. I would go the whole nine yards and insulate the entire basement.


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you for all the wonderful feedback. I was thinking about Drylock as well. I paid extra to have my exterior foundation waterproofed so I think I have a 10 year warranty on that if there are any water issues. I have been in my home for 13 months now and have zero water issues (crossing my fingers just in case). Since I have the exterior waterproofed, gutters that push all water away from the foundation, a slight grade away from the house, a sump pump and no current water issues, should I put Drylock on my walls? I have been reading a lot about it and there appears to be 2 completely different thoughts. Some say it should be done where others say sealing both sides of the wall does not allow it to breath and can create issues. Any feedback? Also, when applying the foam board to the wall, spaces where I have PVC pipes, for example sewer drain pipes, do I get the foam board as close to the PVC pipe as I can and then spray foam such as Great Stuff behind and around it. How have others insulated around unmovable items near their walls? I would like to do what is right but I also don’t want to spend money to do something if it does not add value.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Exactly. What I did was cut a U shape out of the foam board and then slid it up under the pipe. Then I put back the portion of the U that would fit above it and spray foamed around it. You should trim the pieces a little to leave a space for the canned foam to fill. Hope that makes sense.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Go to the chart below the map to find your Zone: http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec001_par001.htm

If in Zone 4, you don’t want interior foam board in front of the existing basement wood frame wall (daylight) because it is a Class 2 vapor retarder.

If in Zone 5, the foam will work only if 
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0410-vapor-barriers-and-wall-design

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-106-understanding-vapor-barriers



1. Describe the wall materials, please. Stucco, builder’s paper, foamboard, studs, etc. 
2 .Which Zone are you in?

No interior vapor barrier paint if already done on the outside. The below-grade portion of the wall would not be allowed to dry to the inside, pp7-9; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0202-basement-insulation-systems

Gary


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you for the feedback on how to insulate around pipe. Do you use this same approach around the utility (breaker) box? Not sure how close I want the foam and spray foam to be next to the utility box since I do not want it to be a fire hazard/

In response to what zone, I live in Kanas City MO, which appears to be the top of zone 4. So, based on your response it sounds like I should use the foam on concrete perimeters surfaces that will be finished but should not put it over the wood framed walls which are above ground level. This works for me since I am most likely going to put a little ledge where the concrete transitions to the wood frame. 

As for materials, here are the notes I have put together. Any feedback you have is appreciated.

How to finish the walls
•	Do not drylock interior concrete walls since the exterior was waterproofed. Below grade portions of the wall will not dry if they are sealed from both sides.
•	Install extrude polystyrene insulation boards – minimum of 1-1/2 inches of rigid insulation board – probably go with 2 inch XPS foam board. All perimeter walls that get framed and finished should have the foam board against it. Do not put foam board in the furnace room since it is flammable and creates overpowering fumes when it burns. Also, do not foam board wood framed walls which are above ground level.
•	Use an all-purpose adhesive that’s approved for Styrofoam (not liquid nails)… when applying to the wall, it should be a tight fit
•	Tape each joint with construction tape, by taping the joints you are helping keep moisture and cold air from infiltrating into the stud wall cavity (Tyvek Tape or Dow Construction Tape). Also, use adhesive in the foam joints.
•	Seal top and bottom of the foam board using spray foam from a can (Great Stuff) so it acts as a vapor barrier
•	Frame basement wall – leave 1 inch gap between foam and framed wall to allow for air flow.
•	Insulate stud wall cavity – install fiberglass insulation in the wall cavities to create a final composite R value that meets the energy code requirements (R13)
•	Install rim joist insulation – use spray foam, foam board or fiberglass insulation
•	Complete needed electrical, plumbing, etc.
•	Vapor barrier - the best vapor barrier is a polyethylene plastic sheet (4 or 6 mil) spread over the studs and stapled in place – not 100% sure this is needed if the foam board is sealed but the cost is low so I am thinking of doing it
•	Finish wall surfaces with sheet rock


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

You probably don't want to put up the 6 mil vapor barrier. It could cause more harm than good. You don't have to leave any space between the studs and xps, but you can if you want. Try to avoid fiberglass insulation. It can absorb moisture and start to mold. Try something like roxul instead.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Try to leave a foot or so if possible around the breaker box to start framing. This way you have access to the sides of the panel if you ever want to add anything to it. So picture it as making a window box around the panel that is about a foot larger on all sides. Then finish it with trim and access doors.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Correct, no dryloc.
XPS or cheaper EPS (use thicker for same R-value).
1” f.b.XPS is probably good for your location, compare your annual heating degree days with these City’s and f.b. thickness: http://www.buildingfoundation.umn.edu/FinalReportWWW/Chapter-5/5-optimum-main.htm B.S.C is covering themselves with the 2”.
Check locally with AHJ on furnace room, outside air source, etc.
Glue in squares pattern: http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743
*No poly* sheeting, as said-wall has to dry inward: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0202-basement-insulation-systems
Rim: f.g. AFTER f.b.(from inside); http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...joist/files/bscinfo_408_critical_seal_rev.pdf
Sill sealer under p.t. plate for thermal/air/capillary break: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code
ADA: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach/

Mikegp, I understood the service panel has to have the drywall flush and tight to the box?: http://electrical.about.com/od/electricalbasics/tp/commonelectricalmistakes.htm

Gary


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

GBR, what number in the link are you referring to?


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

http://dailyhomerenotips.com/wp-con...-weather-stripping-on-electric-panel-door.jpg

That's what I mean.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Found what I was thinking of: *E3907.3 Position in wall.* In walls of concrete, tile or other noncombustible material, cabinets and panelboards shall be installed so that the front edge of the cabinet will not set back of the finished surface more than 1/4 inch (6.4 mm). In walls constructed of wood or other combustible material, cabinets shall be flush with the finished surface or shall project therefrom.
From: http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_39_sec007_par002.htm

I thought the drywall had to be tight to the panel, no gaps that fire could race in. 
*E3907.4 Repairing noncombustible surfaces.* Non-combustible surfaces that are broken or incomplete shall be repaired so that there will not be gaps or open spaces greater than 1/8 inch (3.2 mm) at the edge of the cabinet or cutout box employing a flush-type cover.
From; http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_39_sec007_par003.htm


Gary


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you again for all the responses. I would like to ensure I understand this correctly. I need to follow the airtight drywall approach. This means I need to air seal the top of the walls using spray foam since this is an area that can leak a lot of air. I need to seal the top and bottom of the sheetrock and also seal the ends of sheetrock on the ends of each wall. The reason I am doing this is to create my vapor barrier and this is better than using a plastic sheet. A vapor barrier’s function is to prevent the movement of warm moist air from the heated interior of the home into the cooler areas in the wall cavity. If the air migration were allowed, the warm air wood cool and its moisture would be left behind the wall cavity where it could cause wood rot as well as mold and mildew. 

As for framing around the electrical box, it makes sense to leave 12 inches for future access. This also means it is safe to bring the foam with 12 inches of the electrical box? I just want to make sure it is not a fire hazard.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The drywall is an air barrier, it lets the water vapor through the wall as it slowly comes through the foam (vapor retarder). No vapor barrier (poly sheeting) in below-grade application *for your *location: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0309-renovating-your-basment Air leaks account for 100 times more moisture than vapor diffusion.
If worried about the box, fill closest two inches with canned fire-foam. 
Fire-stop the wall top (above the foam), and every 10' horizontally, to limit a fire from the floor cavities above: http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec002_par031.htm


Gary


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you for all the feedback.


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Sorry for so many questions but I am trying to figure out what is the best approach. Since I now have an idea on what is required to frame and insulate a wall, I priced the supplies I would need at Home Depot since I want to compare it to the cost of spray foam. To make the comparison easy, I just calculated what it would cost to do a 4x8 section (since that is the size of 1 foam board). 

Here is my supply and price list:

1 4x8 sheet of XPS foam board - $26
1 role of R-13 insulation (covers a little more than 4x8 area) - $11
1 can of Great Stuff - $4
1 can of all-purpose adhesive - $4.50 
1 roll of insulation tape - $10.50

Total: $56 for 4x8 section but many of these items will cover more than just 4x8 section

I called a local contractor and got a quote that it costs $2.20 per sprayed square foot for spray foam. A 4x8 section is 32 square feet so the cost is $70.40.

My assumption is that only the concrete walls get spray foamed since my builder already insulated the wood section of the walls with fiberglass insulation (it is a daylight basement). So I measured the concrete and I have almost 600 square feet of concrete walls. That puts the spray on foam cost at around $1306.80. I then measured how many 4x8 sheets I would need to cover this area and it takes 19. Using the $56 figure, I then rounded down to $900 since many of the supplies will be used for more sections (tap, adhesive, great stuff). 

So my question is... is spray on foam worth $400 more? My understanding is that it will seal better so it will have some heating/cooling benefits but I am guessing that is minimal. There is also a time savings here since I could start framing walls now instead of completing the foam insulation and fiberglass insulation after framing.

Just looking for some advice from the many knowledgeable people here.

One other comment… three of my friends finished their basements and did not do any of the foam insulation and they think it is not worth the cost. Am I being too careful or are they taking a risk of getting mold in their insulation and will be paying for it later with their heating/cooling bills?


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## Canucker (May 5, 2011)

Don't underestimate the benefits of air sealing. It could quite likely be more than a minimal difference. 
Plus, you haven't really put a value on your time, which the spray foam contractor has. They, most likely, will be done in a day or less. For you to get the same level of air sealing, will most likely be considerably longer than a day, no matter how experienced you are. Put a value on your time and see how close the estimate gets
As for your friends and doing it without foam, they may get mold, they may not. Whatever way you choose to go, your chances of getting mold will be much smaller as you've given the most likely places for it to spread, nothing to feed on. I would consider the extra cost, peace of mind insurance


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you for the response, you make some great points... piece of mind and time savings does have value.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"One other comment… three of my friends finished their basements and did not do any of the foam insulation and they think it is not worth the cost. Am I being too careful or are they taking a risk of getting mold in their insulation and will be paying for it later with their heating/cooling bills?" -------

Compare the f.g. only to the f.b. as far as moisture risk: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis

Compare the R-value vs. savings: http://www.quadlock.com/technical_library/bulletins/R-ETRO_Value_of_Basement_Insulation.pdf
You'll be happier later...

Gary


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## Tiny207 (Mar 12, 2011)

VikingDinKC said:


> Thank you for the feedback on how to insulate around pipe. Do you use this same approach around the utility (breaker) box? Not sure how close I want the foam and spray foam to be next to the utility box since I do not want it to be a fire hazard/
> 
> In response to what zone, I live in Kanas City MO, which appears to be the top of zone 4. So, based on your response it sounds like I should use the foam on concrete perimeters surfaces that will be finished but should not put it over the wood framed walls which are above ground level. This works for me since I am most likely going to put a little ledge where the concrete transitions to the wood frame.
> 
> ...


Do you need to have a 1 inch gap between styrofoam and wall? OR can you put the 2x4 wall against the concrete foam between joists?


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## VikingDinKC (Jan 17, 2012)

GBR_in_WA posted this article.

http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743

From the article:

An air space behind basement insulation will not solve condensation problems. It can, in fact, cause condensation problems -- and create new problems to boot. 

Insulation pushed directly against the basement wall will effectively prevent these air convection loops. With no air currents, the only moisture that can get through the wall is what can diffuse slowly up to the top of the wall and out through the wall without causing saturation conditions.


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

Why not glue the foam with Pl300 or what ever construction adhesive is foam friendly and then laminate the drywall directly to the foam? Simply, fast, solid and it works well. That's how I did my walls. You don't need to screw anything, just glue. By the way, for the drywall to the foam you can use drywall compound to laminate the board to the foam, just make sure you use taping mud.


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## Canucker (May 5, 2011)

dberladyn said:


> Why not glue the foam with Pl300 or what ever construction adhesive is foam friendly and then laminate the drywall directly to the foam? Simply, fast, solid and it works well. That's how I did my walls. You don't need to screw anything, just glue. By the way, for the drywall to the foam you can use drywall compound to laminate the board to the foam, just make sure you use taping mud.


Unless they want to put wiring or plumbing in the wall. hope your walls stay dry.


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

And why wouldn't they stay dry? The house is 42 years old, the concrete is sealed on the exterior, any excessive moisture coming through the concrete (if it was there ) will trickle down to the floor where it would be sealed under the subfloor. I feel like saying a big **** *** to your post. I don't understand why you'd post with that attitude.

Plumbing? I actually have some in that wall, as well as a little electrical. It's not hard if you use what's between your ears.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Any basement wall could start leaking or having moisture issues at anytime. And he is saying that you cant run plumbing or electrical within a wall that consists of only xps and drywall because there would be no room unless you cut into the concrete. I have seen shallow electrical boxes, but don't know if they would fit. 

I don't think he was trying to be a jerk, but just giving some info which could be useful.


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

I used 2.5" Styrofoam and I would have went even thicker but I was constraining my spending. At 2.5" plus a .25" gap (your going to have it) that's plenty of room for a box, the wires... just keep them against the concrete. Same with pipes. Keep nothing within 1.5" of the drywall and you should all be good. Naturally if you have too many conduits you're going to have to build a wall to contain them.

2.5" styrofoam is R12. A guy could even go thicker which would allow for deeper boxes.

As for moisture... if you have excessive moisture problems you're going to have a repair regardless.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I hope you mean xps and not styrofoam. Styrofoam does close to nothing.


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

Ok... Extruded Polystyrene... XPS.. my bad.

There's nothing wrong with going either way, but my way was cheaper and it maximized the floor footprint of the room. You just have to be a little more thoughtful in sealing things up to maintain the moisture barrier.

Dan


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

dberladyn said:


> Why not glue the foam with Pl300 or what ever construction adhesive is foam friendly and then laminate the drywall directly to the foam? Simply, fast, solid and it works well. That's how I did my walls. You don't need to screw anything, just glue. By the way, for the drywall to the foam you can use drywall compound to laminate the board to the foam, just make sure you use taping mud.


The foamboard has to be mechanically attached per minimum code, or held in place by a framed wall in front. Without adhesive for an air barrier the basement air would condense on the concrete. The drywall has to be mechanically attached as well, adhesive will reduce the fasteners needed by +-50% as per code and drywall manufacturer group, this is in case of fire. The composition of drywall in a fire requires support, otherwise with adhesive alone it would fail much sooner.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_7_sec002_par010.htm

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec016_par003.htm

This is the reason Dow uses wood strips to hold the edges of their f.b. and attach drywall to-- 3/4" minimum wood thickness. 

Gary


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

Codes vary from region to region.

My concrete is 42 years old, it was poured in forms built of shiplap. It's very uneven, then you have the globs of adhesive... I have an average of 1/4" gap between the concrete and foam. I'm not concerned with what I have done in regards to moisture, I'd be very surprised to have a problem here.

As for the fire rating, that's interesting point that I didn't think of but honestly I couldn't care too much about that. I've used 5/8's drywall for the strength and sound qualities. It has an hours fire-rating... mind you the foam will melt with temps but then I'm not building a completely fireproof house... or it wouldn't be built out of wood studs.

Once more, codes vary from region to region. On 100 million dollar projects we laminate board all the time directly to concrete (interior walls), no nails, no screws.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"Once more, codes vary from region to region. On 100 million dollar projects we laminate board all the time *directly to concrete (interior walls),* no nails, no screws." ----

that's fine, apples to oranges, not apples to apples. Foam board requires covering (in this application)--- concrete walls don't usually ignite and burn.....requiring a thermal/ignition barrier. 

I was referring to drywall over foam board on below-grade concrete walls. Local codes do vary in the jurisdiction accepting all or parts of them (or adding to). *Which State are you in? * 50 States included here follow the IRC; http://www.iccsafe.org/gr/pages/adoptions.aspx

Gary


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

I'm not in a State. I am in Canada.

This must be turning into a pride thing, either for you.. or for me. There's not much point in continuing this. I am more than satisfied that I'll never see a problem with my wall. I would do it all over again the same way in a heart beat.

Codes and everything else.... save it for someone else.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Sorry if I upset you over this. I was merely showing the reason not to just glue the two materials to the concrete. This happens in a forum, the end result being the best way to do something, hopefully, also the safest way. 

I was curious as to your location because of the Codes available there. Codes are like getting a "D" on a school test, passing- but barely. The U.S. codes are changing each year with more scientific ways and experience to help guide the changes. 

In Canada, if you could just glue the drywall, your codes would not stipulate "strapping" required on the foamboard. 

*Interior Board-Type Insulation Option for a Class 'A' Basement*
Where a finished, Class A basement is desirable in a given housing market, another approach to interior insulation and finish is depicted in Figure 2.11. This approach to a fully insulated and finished basement avoids the use of vapour permeable insulation, and also isolates integral framing members from direct contact with wet, curing concrete. 
*Control Function*
*Option*
*Description*
Structure
CIP or CMU
Cast-in-place concrete or concrete masonry units
Insulation Placement
INT
*Interior insulation (board type, integral strapping)*
Insulation Coverage
F
Full coverage of foundation walls
Construction Moisture
W or D
Wet or dry construction
Drainage
EDR
Explicit drainage provided by membrane
Waterproofing
NWP
None
Dampproofing
FDP
Full below-ground wall exterior coverage provided by insulation
Air Leakage & Soil Gas Control
HAB
Hybrid system of structure, caulking, membranes
Moisture Control
NMC
None, moisture control provided by insulation
*Table 2.11 Description of interior board-type insulation option.*







Figure 2.11 Typical configuration of interior board-type insulation option.From: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/rr/rr199/part2.html The bold in the chart was mine. 


Dow of Canada directs one to attach the strapping to the concrete/block wall with fasteners, as pictured: http://building.dow.com/na/en/applications/building/foundations/foundationsintwall.htm

I wasn't talking about your wall, just gave the answer to your question in post #30: 
"Why not glue the foam with Pl300 or what ever construction adhesive is foam friendly and then laminate the drywall directly to the foam? Simply, fast, solid and it works well."

Gary


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

I think the code just wants you to mechanically fasten it. Which may give the wall more lateral strength, but I know from experience it's harder to remove properly laminated gyproc than something screwed or nailed. Also, mechanically fastened material will help avoid poor workmanship, cheaping out on adhesives, and wet concrete. As well as possible better situation in a fire.

Those are my opinions. I guess I have been too sensitive because I am more than satisfied with my approach to my situation.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I've framed under the codes my whole career (38 years) and they really are "minimal". I see you are a pro drywall installer, you probably knew that in a fire- the paper backing is it's down-fall. I learned that today, http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2003/crame03a.pdf
going to bed--- LOL.

Gary


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## dberladyn (Apr 24, 2011)

I am actually a Finisher, not an installer - but I used to do it and I still do from time to time.

I don't know what your codes are like across the border but here, things aside from woodframe construction are built pretty good. At least with the builders we work for.

You're not going to Fire Proof a house, the only way that's going to happen is if we live in Concrete Huts with no belongings. From a practical standpoint what we do is attempt to make things Fire Resistant. Resistant. Resistant long enough for the occupants to get out and the local Fire Services to deal with things.

Here all multi-unit dwellings have to have sprinkler systems. I've hit those heads before by accident, they flood a place FAST. Aside from the Fire itself, the smoke is the next major issue. Which is why we seal things with Gyproc, Tape and Special Caulking.

Things have come a long way in the last 40 years. Like you're article states, there's people pushing to go further.. but there's the economics and practicality of the whole situation. They referred to the World Trade Center. Come on... do we really need to build everything so it can take a fully fueled large passenger jet collision?

I'm not worried about the paper of gyproc... and don't think you are either. We don't store gasoline or other flammables, the natural gas... if it leaks... well... we are now dealing with an explosion, not fire. 

Framing and minimal codes... here, houses now have to built out of 2x6, not 2x4. Of course we no longer use the clear fir studs of the yester-years. But... I agree with you on the cheaply built houses. They are to code but with the materials used, they are under built. Custom homes are always nice to work in. (Provided the Framer cared!  )


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Yep, materials are the good, bad and ugly. Sad to say, so is the work quality. Sorry, drywall finisher. 

VikingDinKC, any other questions?

Gary


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## drewjt6 (Jan 18, 2017)

Make sure to use faced rigid foam against the mason walls...regardless of water proofing there will still be vapor. If the foam is faced then you can use 2 x 4 insulation and it shouldn't get wet/mold unless you have a plumbing event...combining the insulation will increase the r value as well...


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)




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