# Keurig (K45) phantom power consumption



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

First off, there is no such thing as "Phantom Power Consumption". Second is that the Keurig has a heater, to keep the water warm. It never goes into an off state. 6w is really nothing, when you figure out what the monthly costs are.


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## phuz (Nov 1, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> First off, there is no such thing as "Phantom Power Consumption". Second is that the Keurig has a heater, to keep the water warm. It never goes into an off state. 6w is really nothing, when you figure out what the monthly costs are.


I'm sorry. I didn't know that I needed to be 100% technical.
Allow me to backtrack. STANDBY POWER CONSUMPTION. And yes it has a heater, but the heater is not energized whatsoever in an OFF state. There is no such thing as standby heating on the Keurig K45 when it is turned off. When powered on, yes, it will cycle the heater to maintain temperature. 
Of course 6W is not a lot, but when compared to a dozen other appliances which have 1W or less in an idle state, yes, 6W is a lot.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You are talking about 0.1444 Kwh for a whole day. Basically it does not even make the meter register that it is plugged in.

Again, the Keurig never goes into a true off state.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

Yep...anything with any sort of power supply inside will draw continuously. We lived with solar/wind power for several years and got used to plugging everything that may present a phantom load (that's what everyone in the renewable energy side of things has always called them) into switched outlet strips. 

0.5-6 watts may not seem like much, but several added together were more than enough to wake our inverter up out of 'sleep mode', causing it to draw a larger amount of power vs staying in sleep mode. 

Probably nothing wrong with the Keurig...that's just how electrical products are. If you really want a good time, check an HD cable box...ours is 45 watts turned completely 'off'. And there are two of them in the house. I don't even own an interior light bulb that draws that much.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Marqed97, Cable boxes & DVR's never go into an off state. All you are doing when you turn them "off", is just shutting down the signal to the tv. The box which is a computer, stays on 24/7.


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## phuz (Nov 1, 2012)

Marqed97 said:


> Yep...anything with any sort of power supply inside will draw continuously. We lived with solar/wind power for several years and got used to plugging everything that may present a phantom load (that's what everyone in the renewable energy side of things has always called them) into switched outlet strips.
> 
> 0.5-6 watts may not seem like much, but several added together were more than enough to wake our inverter up out of 'sleep mode', causing it to draw a larger amount of power vs staying in sleep mode.
> 
> Probably nothing wrong with the Keurig...that's just how electrical products are. If you really want a good time, check an HD cable box...ours is 45 watts turned completely 'off'. And there are two of them in the house. I don't even own an interior light bulb that draws that much.


Funny you mention that. I checked the HD cable box in our bedroom, which is plugged into a strip along with the 42" TV. With the TV off, but the cable box still on, it was a combined load of 13W. 

I just found it odd that the Keurig drew 6W but the Cuisinart, having the digital readout, only drew 1/2W.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Phuz, the Cuisinart just has to power the clock. If it does not have a water reservoir in it, that needs to be kept hot.

Again, you have to take the watts and calculate them to KwH, then times by 24 hours, to figure the daily costs to use. The Kill-a-watt should show you that.


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## mcvane (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm a few months late to jump into this post, but to me if you are not using your Keureg and it is in theory 'off', I don't understand why it would draw power at all. It shouldn't need to heat your water when not in use. And yes, cable boxes are terrible for power consumption. If you were to install a fan inside of it, it could be a mini-heater as those things are hot!

I suggest for appliances such as these:

1) unplug them when not in use
2) put them on a power bar and switch it off when not in use
3) put them on a timer which turns them off the majority of the time you won't be home.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

McVane, the Keurig's are always on for the heater. Just the computer control for size selection and taste, goes into standby. You have to press and hold the off on some to completely turn them off.

But in reality, it is not much per month for the power it uses while in stand by mode.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> McVane, the Keurig's are always on for the heater. Just the computer control for size selection and taste, goes into standby. You have to press and hold the off on some to completely turn them off.
> 
> But in reality, it is not much per month for the power it uses while in stand by mode.


At 6 watts an hour, around 4KWHs a month, so 40 plus cents a month, $4.80 plus a year. Not much compared to the total house hold use. But when you add all the other appliances in with it, it adds up to a fair amount. So unplugging it can save some 5 bucks a year. Unplugging other appliance when they aren't in use. Could save enough to pay for 1 months electric plus.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Our Kuerig draws 0.5 and in winter it helps heat our house. 

We have propane as the principle heat source but with electric and propane being so near equal in cost it makes no difference. In summer when Ole Faithful trying to cool our abode and is working against an outdoor ambient of possibly 102°F we attempt to disconnect many of those little drawing appliances that aren't necessary for life conveniences. But two computers running 24/7 are life conveniences aren't they?:yes:


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## phuz (Nov 1, 2012)

beenthere said:


> At 6 watts an hour, around 4KWHs a month, so 40 plus cents a month, $4.80 plus a year. Not much compared to the total house hold use. But when you add all the other appliances in with it, it adds up to a fair amount. So unplugging it can save some 5 bucks a year. Unplugging other appliance when they aren't in use. Could save enough to pay for 1 months electric plus.


Thank you for helping illustrate the point I was trying to make since others think I'm crazy.
It's not about the amount it actually draws by itself, but add these little things up and yes, it does make a difference. Maybe some people would just prefer to throw cash away. I'm not one of them.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

There is only about 1.3 billion dollars ( conservatively speaking ) spent each year in the US alone because we humans are too lazy to disconnect appliances not being used. :laughing: OH, I almost forgot. We need to plug them back into an outlet for them to preform. Now that's really asking a lot.


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## LeakyHawaiiRoof (Oct 21, 2014)

I think that Keurig should have spent a bit more effort lowering the standby power consumption. To me, something slightly higher than a digital clock would have been appropriate. I'd also like to see cable companies spend more effort on the same. 

Anyway, if saving power is a really important, Home Depot (and a whole bunch of other stores) sell plug switches for about $6. These might be easier than plugging and unplugging the device every day. For the extra lazy tightwads, there's a similar motion sensor plug; wave hand over the sensor to turn it on and have it automatically go off after a few minutes (actually, I'm not sure those use less than 7W). 

Then again, if saving money is extremely important, don't buy a Keurig in the first place.

And don't complain about electricity prices. Here, people pay around 35 cents a kWh.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

You are complaining about a few watts. You would waste far more energy with a Mr Coffee or similar machine making a pot of coffee and leaving it on the warmer for an hour (or more).

When you are talking about making a few cups in the morning, its hard to beat the Keurig. 

You could try making instant coffee in a microwave. 
But it too, has standby power.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> Marqed97, Cable boxes & DVR's never go into an off state. All you are doing when you turn them "off", is just shutting down the signal to the tv. The box which is a computer, stays on 24/7.


2 months later...ha. 

I know they never go into a fully 'off' state. I was just illustrating the point that even when turned as 'off' as they can get (no lights on etc), they still consume a stupid amount of power. That's why we still use power strips for the two rooms that have tv/dvd/cable boxes etc. No reason to be drawing that much for the 20 hrs a day or more that they're not in use. Takes about 2 minutes to re-download the channel guide, but not a big deal. 

Different strokes for different folks. It's kind of interesting for me at least to see how wasteful some of this stuff is.


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## LeakyHawaiiRoof (Oct 21, 2014)

Anyone shocked (or outraged) at the amount of electricity their cable box uses should consider buying their own cable device. 

For the most part, cable companies have very little incentive to provide energy efficient cable boxes. Customers will use whatever is provided so cable companies provide boxes that are cheap and reliable (ok, maybe just cheap). Energy efficiency isn't even a factor.

Pursuant to FCC cable card rules and rulings, United States customers are allowed to provide their own equipment and must receive a discount on their bill for doing so. 

Consider the TiVo Roamio boxes. According to recent measures, those devices use 14W when not in use. Add in a required tuning adapter from the cable company that uses 9W, and the total consumption is 23W. Again, still a sizable amount, but less than a 40-45W cable box from a cable company. Why the simple and required tuning adapter from the cable company uses 9 W and the rather complex free market TiVo uses 14 W is just an example of why competition is good. 

Now, don't go out and buy a TiVo just to save electricity. Saving 20 watts on a device is less than $20 per year at $0.10 kWh; it'll take decades for the savings to pay for the TiVo (assuming lifetime subscription). But factoring in if someone currently pays for the cable company for DVR service, the potential for higher electricity costs, and the simple joy of sending less money to the cable company every month, then a TiVo may be worthwhile--and the fact that it is an outstanding machine.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

marqed97, it does not bother me, because I pay $.10/kwh. My monthly bills run around $82 a month on avg. for electric.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Oso954 said:


> You are complaining about a few watts. You would waste far more energy with a Mr Coffee or similar machine making a pot of coffee and leaving it on the warmer for an hour (or more).


You can get high quality coffee makers (better than Keurig, IMO) that don't have warming pates, but I think the point here is that all of this adds up. I've never actually done it, but I bet I could come up with a pretty substantial savings in a year if I unplugged all this stuff that never shuts off, every night. 4 cable boxes, home theater systems, routers, switches, microwave and stove clocks.... etc.

Of course I don't really worry about it in my area because electricity is pretty cheap, and I'm working (as opposed to retired), but there are people at the opposite end of that spectrum.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> but I bet I could come up with a pretty substantial savings in a year if I unplugged all this stuff that never shuts off, every night.


You would save some. I have helped a number of people with off grid solar systems where cutting every watt hour was important. In a few cases, we went as far as putting "light switches" in at a convenient height for each receptacle in the house/cabin. When you were done using whatever was plugged into it, you switched off the receptacle.

But, you need to select your appliances and devices with the idea of killing the power to them. The startup tests, required inputs, etc. can cause a lot of delay when you power them back up. I know a lot of people that won't even shut down their computer overnight, because of the delay getting it powered back up in the mornings. Some TV's and TV boxes are almost as bad.

It comes down to how much inconvenience is a person going to put up with for a few dollars a month.


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## mcvane (Mar 19, 2007)

I wouldn't buy products from manufacturers who make power hungry devices, even though a few watts of power is only pennies a day. Why couldn't they engineer them to be 0.7 versus 7 watts?

However, it's not always in the best interest to buy power saving products either. If I bring up the standard versus incandescent versus LED light bulb argument, I purchased many CFL bulbs as we had discounted incentives to do so in my region (Ontario) 5 years back. Sure, they were cooler and saved a bit of energy, but it was always a pain to get them into most light fixtures, unless you bought a new fixture (more money). Then, I installed them outside in my garage to save money too. How long did they last? They couldn't last through 2 winter months and the brightness was hardly worth the savings from using an old fashioned non-CFL light.

Last year, our province banned the sale of 60Watt and 100Watt bulbs, which forced me to stock up. These bulbs are durable and produce real intense light.

This fall, we have incentives to purchase LEDs which are supposed to save more money. I have bought about 6 bulbs and so far, so good.

CFLs and LEDs have no where near the lumens that I got with standard bulbs, but for now, I'm okay with the LEDs indoors. I don't dare place them outside and risk them just failing.

If you do the math here is the cost breakdown
non CFL: 4 bulbs for $1
CFL: 1 bulb for approx $3 + possible need to upgrade fixtures
LED: 1 bulb for more than $10 + possible need to upgrade fixtures

Although LED bulbs are working in certain rooms in my house, I still look at the 25 cent price on standard bulbs to be cheap.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> You can get high quality coffee makers (better than Keurig, IMO) that don't have warming pates, but I think the point here is that all of this adds up. I've never actually done it, but I bet I could come up with a pretty substantial savings in a year if I unplugged all this stuff that never shuts off, every night. 4 cable boxes, home theater systems, routers, switches, microwave and stove clocks.... etc.
> 
> Of course I don't really worry about it in my area because electricity is pretty cheap, and I'm working (as opposed to retired), but there are people at the opposite end of that spectrum.


Someone mentioned it above, but beware that if you cut power to STB's, you'll lose the TV guide for a bit upon power on. Not a big deal if it's in a bedroom or exercise room that doesn't get used. 

But to me, $5 per year is worth having the TV guide immediately :laughing:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

NickTheGreat said:


> But to me, $5 per year is worth having the TV guide immediately :laughing:


Well that's just it. It boils down to convenience vs thrifty spending in most of these cases. You have to pick which one is more important to you.

If the extra power really bothers you then you should not be owning a Keurig. There are more efficient ways of making coffee (better tasting too  )


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## LeakyHawaiiRoof (Oct 21, 2014)

mcvane said:


> I wouldn't buy products from manufacturers who make power hungry devices, even though a few watts of power is only pennies a day. Why couldn't they engineer them to be 0.7 versus 7 watts?
> 
> However, it's not always in the best interest to buy power saving products either. If I bring up the standard versus incandescent versus LED light bulb argument, I purchased many CFL bulbs as we had discounted incentives to do so in my region (Ontario) 5 years back. Sure, they were cooler and saved a bit of energy, but it was always a pain to get them into most light fixtures, unless you bought a new fixture (more money). Then, I installed them outside in my garage to save money too. How long did they last? They couldn't last through 2 winter months and the brightness was hardly worth the savings from using an old fashioned non-CFL light.
> 
> ...


 CFL bulbs don't do well in low temperatures. I vaguely remember seeing a warning not to use them at temperatures below freezing or more than 10 degrees below freezing or something like that. That could explain why your CFL bulbs failed and why they are not as bright as the old style incandescent bulbs. For normal operating temperatures, a 100 W incandescent is about 1600 lumens and a 100 W CFL equivalent (23W) should be the same. CFL bulbs also take time to get to full brightness during normal temperatures. Perhaps the cold temperature either prevents the full brightness or slows it dramatically. 

LED bulbs, on the other hand, do well in cold temperatures. Additionally, they instantly get to full brightness. I recently replaced the outdoor CFL flood lights at my house with the Cree 100 W equivalent LED flood bulbs. The instant brightness makes a big difference. Then again, I don't have to worry about freezing temperatures either.

I see that in Ontario, electricity ranges between 7.7 cents to 14 cents (Canadian) per kWh depending upon the time of day. 

I agree that the incandescent bulbs themselves are much cheaper, but the other two important considerations are the life of the bulb and the electricity use. Sadly incandescent bulbs are beat quite handedly in both those respects by CFL and LED bulbs. Depending on how many hours a day you use the incandescent bulbs, the per bulb dollar savings could get wiped out very quickly.


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## memphis2k (Dec 21, 2014)

Agreed


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## Gymbo (May 6, 2015)

*Keurig standby power*

Its been stated that the Keurig K45 consumes 6W per hour with the power switch off, how much does it consume with the power switch on while not making coffee, > 6W I'm sure, but how much?


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