# large bulge in wall - cause?



## joecaption

No way to tell what's going on with those pictures.
Someone's going to have to remove some drywall to see what's going on.


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## diy'er on LI

I guess what I'm asking is if/when I remove the drywall, what should I be looking for? what are the most common causes?

It's only happening on this one wall, and on the opposite side of this wall (bedroom/living room), everything is fine.


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## joecaption

Could be a lot of things and you as a home owner DIY may not even now what's wrong when looking at it.
Were you one of the many effected with the last hurricane?
Once it's open up repost,
May have to call in on site pro engineer to look at it to figure it out.


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## mech_gui

Is that a concrete wall behind the lower area. I am assuming this goes in a basement. and the door jamb in the second pic is down and to the right in the first pic.

If so it could be the furring strips came loose from the concrete wall.

It is hard to tell what & where this is at.


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## diy'er on LI

So I guess I should call a drywall pro?

Obviously, I don't want this to fester any longer... it's getting concerning.


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## diy'er on LI

mech_gui said:


> Is that a concrete wall behind the lower area. I am assuming this goes in a basement. and the door jamb in the second pic is down and to the right in the first pic.
> 
> If so it could be the furring strips came loose from the concrete wall.
> 
> It is hard to tell what & where this is at.


this is between the main floor and the second floor. It's wood framing on top of a concrete slab (which is the floor of first floor). So the bulge is between the first and 2nd floor wood framing. and there is no comparable problem on the opposite sides of the wall (in our living room and bedroom)


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## joecaption

Not sure why you would be calling in a drywall person at this point. 
It does not take a pro to remove it.


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## diy'er on LI

joecaption said:


> Not sure why you would be calling in a drywall person at this point.
> It does not take a pro to remove it.


becuase you just stated that if I removed it I might not even be able to determine what the problem was.... and I'd like them to see the drywall problem before analyzing possible issues with the structure beneath.


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## Dorado

The crack by the doorway is probably nothing serious. I have cracks in the paint by the corners of three of my room and closet doors that run from the corner of the frame to the ceiling. It looks like seams are visible on your walls, like it's a bad drywall job, unless it's wall paper.


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## diy'er on LI

Dorado said:


> The crack by the doorway is probably nothing serious. I have cracks in the paint by the corners of three of my room and closet doors that run from the corner of the frame to the ceiling. It looks like seams are visible on your walls, like it's a bad drywall job, unless it's wall paper.


In the pic w/ the moulding and the small hole that I just made you can see the upper half of the wall does indeed have old wallpaper (that I've procrastinated on removing merely because of the inaccessible location). That same wall paper is torn because of the crack in the doorway. It's a deep crack with about a 2mm gap at this point. I wouldn't be too concerned if it weren't for the major bulging 4 feet to the left / 7 feet below. Seems like the whole wall is shifting/warping on this side.

The thing is that this wallpaper and wall was fine for about 30 years, and then weird things began to happen. It has accelerated over the last several months.


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## mech_gui

diy'er on LI said:


> In the pic w/ the moulding and the small hole that I just made you can see the upper half of the wall does indeed have old wallpaper (that I've procrastinated on removing merely because of the inaccessible location). That same wall paper is torn because of the crack in the doorway. It's a deep crack with about a 2mm gap at this point. I wouldn't be too concerned if it weren't for the major bulging 4 feet to the left / 7 feet below. Seems like the whole wall is shifting/warping on this side.


What is on the other side is that the outside of the house? can you look down the house to see if it is pushed in?


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## diy'er on LI

mech_gui said:


> What is on the other side is that the outside of the house? can you look down the house to see if it is pushed in?


my bedroom (upstairs) and my living room (downstairs). It's an interior wall spanning the center of the house (perpendicular to the roofline) 

The living room, admittedly, has a built-in bookcase, that presumably could conseal minor wall abberations.

In the bedroom, there's nothing wrong with the other side of that wall! Looks fine! No cracks on the other side of the bedroom doorframe. No bulging or seam issues either.


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## mech_gui

:thumbup:


diy'er on LI said:


> my bedroom (upstairs) and my living room (downstairs). It's an interior wall spanning the center of the house (perpendicular to the roofline)
> 
> The living room, admittedly, has a built-in bookcase, that presumably could conseal minor wall abberations.
> 
> In the bedroom, there's nothing wrong with the other side of that wall! Looks fine! No cracks on the other side of the bedroom doorframe. No bulging or seam issues either.


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## mech_gui

joecaption said:


> Not sure why you would be calling in a drywall person at this point.
> It does not take a pro to remove it.


Riper' down then we want to see!! :bangin:


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## diy'er on LI

yeah, I'm totally clinging to that to maintain my sanity. If both sides of the wall were f'ed up, I'd be making a mess in my undies. Would be super duper expensive, and I'd definitely would have to hire out several top tier pro's to fix it. I'd be broke!


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## diy'er on LI

mech_gui said:


> Riper' down then we want to see!! :bangin:


But what am I looking for?! I want to conclusively find what caused this. If I'm not confident, I don't want to "destroy the evidence" and then call in a pro. 
I mean, if I find a stud that is pushed outwards, yeah, that's obvious. concerning (would call in a pro, maybe an engineer to figure out why that happened!) 

but if it's only the surface drywall, what should I look for?

Should I be looking for screws that are farther apart than 12"? 
what else?


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## diy'er on LI

joecaption said:


> Could be a lot of things and you as a home owner DIY may not even now what's wrong when looking at it.
> Were you one of the many effected with the last hurricane?
> Once it's open up repost,
> May have to call in on site pro engineer to look at it to figure it out.


do you think pictures could capture the problem? I mean, it's difficult to capture the plumbness of framing in a picture.... or do you think it would likely be sufficiently obvious? If you think it would be, I'll tear that beast up!


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## mech_gui

diy'er on LI said:


> But what am I looking for?! I want to conclusively find what caused this. If I'm not confident, I don't want to "destroy the evidence" and then call in a pro.
> I mean, if I find a stud that is pushed outwards, yeah, that's obvious. concerning (would call in a pro, maybe an engineer to figure out why that happened!)
> 
> but if it's only the surface drywall, what should I look for? can you push the sheetrock back against the studs at all?
> 
> Should I be looking for screws that are farther apart than 12"?
> what else?


Take more pictures cell phone movie even.

How close were you to the high winds? High winds can shove a house causing big shifts in the structure framing. They could have " racked " your roof a little.
Are there other houses in your area with hurricane damage?


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## diy'er on LI

mech_gui said:


> Take more pictures cell phone movie even.
> 
> How close were you to the high winds? High winds can shove a house causing big shifts in the structure framing. They could have " racked " your roof a little.
> Are there other houses in your area with hurricane damage?


well, that's almost an annual issue here on LI. Keep in mind, it's not like evil southern hurricanes (100mph+ winds) they tend to pitter out a bit by the time they reach us. Usually Cat. 1 at best... more often tropical storm level. 

Most of the house damage over here was caused by trees hitting homes. Not wind damage. Siding/roofing was undamaged by the last 2 hurricanes.

This bulge was present but slight several years ago. In the last year?, it has traveled an ugly road and gotten much worse. Not sure what's causing it. The slab beneath has not shifted... the opposite side of the wall seems fine, the roof is fine....

OK, my hubby and I will tear at the beast. Don't think we have the time to make and repair such a giant mess before easter, but we'll do it soon. 

thanks so much for your input everyone!!!!!


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## Gary in WA

If an exterior south or west wall I could understand; http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/wood_shrink.htm

As it has a floor on the other side, I'm going with the rim joist shrinking (because it is drying out from seasonal changes) now that the heat is on after the mild weather... fig. 3; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-023-wood-is-good-but-strange/

Although, that is an interior wall, but it is probably a "bearing" wall as well, supporting the floor joists of the up-stairs room. You may find the fasteners are in the studs above/below or the drywall joint is on the rim joist and it needs an "expansion joint" in the drywall boards. I'd cut a small section out from both upper/lower board joints and paper tape it over a 1/4" gap left for movement, or buy the correct drywall trim; *pp.6, fig. 6*; http://bestdrywall.com/files/ReduceCallbacks.pdf

Gary


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## diy'er on LI

Gary in WA said:


> If an exterior south or west wall I could understand; http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/wood_shrink.htm
> 
> As it has a floor on the other side, I'm going with the rim joist shrinking (because it is drying out from seasonal changes) now that the heat is on after the mild weather... fig. 3; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-023-wood-is-good-but-strange/
> 
> Although, that is an interior wall, but it is probably a "bearing" wall as well, supporting the floor joists of the up-stairs room. You may find the fasteners are in the studs above/below or the drywall joint is on the rim joist and it needs an "expansion joint" in the drywall boards. I'd cut a small section out from both upper/lower board joints and paper tape it over a 1/4" gap left for movement, or buy the correct drywall trim; *pp.6, fig. 6*; http://bestdrywall.com/files/ReduceCallbacks.pdf
> 
> Gary


The expansion joint issue very likely could be it! The bulge is precisely at the point of my bedroom floor joists... Thanks so much for your input.

It would be lovely if that were the solution. Obviously, this wall's drywall is so messed up it needs to be replaced. Would be fabulous if drywall were the only repair and everything is structurally sound beneath. 
Fingers crossed!


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## Fix'n it

if you can't do it for 2+ weeks. you must not be that worried about doing 10 mins of work. to be able to see, or at least take pics for us to see, what is going on in there.


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## hammerlane

Is this the bulge? Can you post a picture and stand a little further back?


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## diy'er on LI

hammerlane said:


> Is this the bulge? Can you post a picture and stand a little further back?


no actually, it's the giant crease about 3-4 ft above it (near the 1" hole I made on the rt side and a few inches below the brown moulding.). 

What you pointed out, however, is a secondary seam that just recently began to bulge at roughly the 4' mark on the wall. (roughly 2 ft above the staircase landing)

Sorry for the disorienting picture! It's the best I can do because it's a stairwell. I took the pic standing on roughly the 8th step, looking downwards towards the landing (which is equivalent to the 4th step of the staircase). The staircase is covered w/ chocolate brown carpeting....

The recent appearance of that second seam made me almost think that there is pressure pushing down on that drywall sheet from above, causing the larger/higher bulge and this lower seam appearance.


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## diy'er on LI

Fix'n it said:


> if you can't do it for 2+ weeks. you must not be that worried about doing 10 mins of work. to be able to see, or at least take pics for us to see, what is going on in there.


oh, I've been skooled by you. You are definitely right, sir. There is zero reason for me to hesitate in demoing the drywall of a massive wall right in the middle of my home right before easter. 

And of course, it would only take 10 min for a diy'er with only moderate drywalling experience to fix this issue by installing scaffolding on a staircase, replacing drywall from 2ft to 10 ft in the air, taping, skimming, and painting before easter day.

I must be lazy to delay this until after the holidays. :whistling2:


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## ToolSeeker

He's not talking about doing the whole repair. Just take a few minutes to open up and see what is going on. To make a bulge like this something has moved or broken. It could be anything from something minor to a major support has broken. Drywall does not bulge and crack for no reason.


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## diy'er on LI

ToolSeeker said:


> He's not talking about doing the whole repair. Just take a few minutes to open up and see what is going on. To make a bulge like this something has moved or broken. It could be anything from something minor to a major support has broken. Drywall does not bulge and crack for no reason.


I know, but I can't exactly have a house full of guests with a wall missing. KWIM? Kinda obvious from my statement "gotta be after easter" :wink:


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## oh'mike

Long Island----your house is not in danger of collapse---

If the drywall on the other side of that wall appears to be solid and un wrinkled---the chances are you have en expansion issue that finally caused the drywall to break loose from it's glue and nails.

This will wait until you have time----

What I suggest is the removal of the damaged drywall---then an assessment of the framing---either by the members here or a carpenter or other structurally knowledgeable person----

Correct the framing problem if there is one--then replace the drywall---

This will be a bit disruptive---you will have half a day protecting the area and setting up the scaffold ---an hour fixing the framing---then a couple hours hanging----then two or three days applying mud and waiting for it to dry----

This does not look like an emergency----

Just a big pain in the bottom.

My money is on a stud that is bowed and loose drywall---

How old is the house?
1970s frequently used glue and nails----bad glue----loose sheets are common from that time period.


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## diy'er on LI

oh'mike said:


> Long Island----your house is not in danger of collapse---
> 
> If the drywall on the other side of that wall appears to be solid and un wrinkled---the chances are you have en expansion issue that finally caused the drywall to break loose from it's glue and nails.
> 
> This will wait until you have time----
> 
> What I suggest is the removal of the damaged drywall---then an assessment of the framing---either by the members here or a carpenter or other structurally knowledgeable person----
> 
> Correct the framing problem if there is one--then replace the drywall---
> 
> This will be a bit disruptive---you will have half a day protecting the area and setting up the scaffold ---an hour fixing the framing---then a couple hours hanging----then two or three days applying mud and waiting for it to dry----
> 
> This does not look like an emergency----
> 
> Just a big pain in the bottom.
> 
> My money is on a stud that is bowed and loose drywall---
> 
> How old is the house?
> 1970s frequently used glue and nails----bad glue----loose sheets are common from that time period.


Oh'mike, you are the person who gave the sage advice on the original thread I read from a few years ago on a similar topic 
1975 is when the house was built to be precise. yeah, I don't doubt crappy glue was used. And yeah, they did nail the drywall. Why oh why.... some parts of code in those days was highly suspect, to say the least.

That's what I'll do, I'll demo after easter, see what evils lurk behind.... post a few good pics for the wonderful experts on this site, and see if they think I need to hire a pro to give a professional structural assessment in person, or if I can correct it on my own.

I loathe this... just because I'm not experienced at navigating super awkward locations. 16 ft ceilings.... will be tons of fun to build a scaffold on that staircase to remove wallpaper/drywall. Guess I should make lemonade from the lemons and replace the outdated light fixture over the stairs, and paint the opposing wall at the same time. Then I hopefully won't have to climb up there for another 15 years.... 

I really sincerely appreciate everyones input. You guys totally rock. I want you to know you really help out little guys like me more than you know.....:thumbup:


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## oh'mike

1975----I had that number in my head---that was a time of wonderful new building materials---

Builder adhesive --that meant using only half the number of nails---except the first generstion of glue became brittle and failed after 15 or 20 years----

Truss roof construction was also new---but truss lift was not understood--so ceiling seams opened up once a year---

Whenever 'new' happens---problems follow---


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## oh'mike

Bang on that sheet with your fist----see if it sounds hollow or loose-----I'm working on a house from that time period----half of the drywall is loose----lots of screws are being added---

You may be able to save most of that by rescrewing the sheets--and cutting out a narrow strip (16 to 32 inch") where it is buckled---

the buckling might be caused by pressure from a loose ceiling sheet------

Use your fist---see if I'm on the right track---


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## diy'er on LI

oh'mike said:


> Bang on that sheet with your fist----see if it sounds hollow or loose-----I'm working on a house from that time period----half of the drywall is loose----lots of screws are being added---
> 
> You may be able to save most of that by rescrewing the sheets--and cutting out a narrow strip (16 to 32 inch") where it is buckled---
> 
> the buckling might be caused by pressure from a loose ceiling sheet------
> 
> Use your fist---see if I'm on the right track---


It's a little hard to discern, but it seems hollow? Also, the area that seemed the most suspect is the area where I made that small hole, and it shockingly is hollow. I thought for sure I would find a misaligned beam or stud over there. Would be AWESOME if I could avoid the scaffolding. :thumbup: No one wants to go up there. 
(When I asked a pro for an estimate to fix a minor issue years ago over the stairs, it was an astronomical cost because of the staircase and the awkward placing of scaffolding... barely enough space to sqeeze it in.) Makes me wonder how the builders build that tight alcove to begin with.


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## oh'mike

That can be dangerous work--please take extra care---I good friend went down off a scaffold over a stair case--

It was almost a life changing event---he is okay after nearly a year off work---so please take extra care---


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## Fix'n it

ToolSeeker said:


> He's not talking about doing the whole repair. Just take a few minutes to open up and see what is going on.


this ^ . just cut a small hole. maybe 3" x 8" .


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## diy'er on LI

oh'mike said:


> That can be dangerous work--please take extra care---I good friend went down off a scaffold over a stair case--
> 
> It was almost a life changing event---he is okay after nearly a year off work---so please take extra care---





Fix'n it said:


> this ^ . just cut a small hole. maybe 3" x 8" .


Can't start cutting holes right now.... just because it seriously is SMACK in the middle of the "party traffic zone". Even the stupid 1" thing I'll have to spackle over now. I swear I'll go after it right after easter....


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## joecaption

I'm working on a home buit 50 years ago.
No glue was use, looks lkie they used 1" box nails with stright shanks.
There was a 6. something earth quake a few miles away and poped every nail in the whole house.
At the of the day I'm still seeing spots.


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## oh'mike

I was remodeling a kitchen ,from the same time period---I removed the soffits--then grabbed and pulled the drywall ceiling---the 12x16 ceiling came down in one full sheet --ka-boom--


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## collegetry

diy'er on LI said:


> I know, but I can't exactly have a house full of guests with a wall missing. KWIM? Kinda obvious from my statement "gotta be after easter"


A wall would not be missing, just some drywall. I would be more concerned that a guest would be walking up or down the stairwell and that drywall could let loose and really hurt someone.

I had an issue in one of my rooms and the drywall stayed removed for 8 months including Thanksgiving and X-mas until I was sure the problem was remedied.


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## hammerlane

diy'er on LI said:


> Sorry for the disorienting picture! It's the best I can do because it's a stairwell. I took the pic standing on roughly the 8th step, looking downwards towards the landing (which is equivalent to the 4th step of the staircase). The staircase is covered w/ chocolate brown carpeting....


Ive looked and looked and still cannot get a good perspective with this photo. The only thing now is I do see the larger bulge at "A". 

Is "B" a handrail?
"E" is the ceiling???
What is "C"?


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## Fix'n it

looks to me that E is the upper part of the wall, A and down is the lower part of said wall. C is the stair landing.


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## Fix'n it

looking at it more. it looks like E is bead board or paneling. and it is sagging down, putting pressure on the drywall A causing it to bulge out.


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## collegetry

Did you ever figure out the problem?


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## Seattle2k

collegetry said:


> Did you ever figure out the problem?


Probably still waiting for the next holiday to come.:laughing:


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## Lucaswonderland

Yes, any updates! Know this is an old thread but if the person who started this listing could post how the issue was solved will greatly help people with similar issues.


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