# pulling thick cable through conduit practices



## jackwashere (May 5, 2010)

I'm going to pull three 3 AWT (aka 3/0) cables through 2 inch pvc conduit buried underground. The distance is 100 feet. On each end I have a 90 degree bend. No other cables will reside in the conduit. What are the best practices for doing this? Should I pull each cable through individually? Should I connect the three cables together with duct tape? If so what is the best way to tie the cables together? Should I have lubricant ready and use it only if things get tough or will I for sure need it so I should apply it right away from the get-go? Any other best practices I should consider?


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## darren (Nov 25, 2005)

First things first, is one of the 3 wires a bond?

II would get a fish tape and if possible to pull a rope in the pipe first and make a loop on the end.

Strip the wire back a foot or 2 and cut all but 3 strands off of each wire. Take those 3 strands and put them in the loop of the rope, make sure to stager each wire for it goes in the pipe smoothly. Tape all this together with electrical tape.

Right before your ready to pull shove a bunch of wire lube down the pipe and put lots on the wire where it meets the rope.

Get a friend or two to pull on the rope, as they pull push the wire into the pipe. Add more lube as needed.


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

No lube needed if using Southwire's SIM-PULL cables.


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## jackwashere (May 5, 2010)

darren said:


> First things first, is one of the 3 wires a bond?
> 
> II would get a fish tape and if possible to pull a rope in the pipe first and make a loop on the end.
> 
> ...


No bonding. Separate cables.

Already have a rope in the conduit. Done. 

Not sure what you mean by stagger each wire. 

Will a quart of lubricant do? Or do I need a gallon?

I have regular nylon yellow rope rated at 85 lbs. I'm going to take along a second roll, unopened, rated at something like 200 lbs. If I don't need it I will return it to Lowe's unopened. Any ideas on rope rating for a task like this? 

I plan to have a person on the receiving end, my 22 year old son, and I will be feeding the line.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

You will need 4 wires (H,H,N,G) unless you are using metal conduit. In addition, you will need ground rods at the structure you are feeding.


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## jackwashere (May 5, 2010)

k_buz said:


> You will need 4 wires (H,H,N,G)


No I won't. G would only be needed if overhead power lines were possibly to be hit by lightning. Edison service in my area is all underground.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

is that AWG wire ?


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

jackwashere said:


> No I won't. G would only be needed if overhead power lines were possibly to be hit by lightning. Edison service in my area is all underground.


I don't know exactly what you are doing, but you need ground rods when feeding a separate structure whether the POCO's lines are overhead, or underground. They are _basically_ protection if the structure get hits by lightning.

As far as the equipment grounding conductor goes, you need that as well. No ifs, ands, or buts. There are no exceptions.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

jackwashere said:


> No I won't. G would only be needed if overhead power lines were possibly to be hit by lightning. Edison service in my area is all underground.



Depends on what exactly you are doing....


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## jackwashere (May 5, 2010)

k_buz said:


> I don't know exactly what you are doing.


No worries. I really appreciate the help I get on this forum. 

I have a 200 AMP meter pedestal on the edge of the ranch. It is designed in such a way that you turn the main breaker off and connect the main panel (without a meter) on the house 100 feet away with three 3/0 wires. How do I know this??? I did my research and talked to the engineer of the manufacturer who made the meter pedestal. One of the questions I asked him is "won't I need a 4th ground wire?" The answer was a clear and unambiguous NO. There is no place to connect a 4th ground wire in the meter pedestal. That is not done. Is not needed. 

The meter pedestal is connected with a #6 cable to a ground rod. Why #6 not #4 as specs would have it??? Because Edison told me to use #6. 

The main panel on the house is grounded with a #4 cable to a ground rod.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

jackwashere said:


> No worries. I really appreciate the help I get on this forum.
> 
> I have a 200 AMP meter pedestal on the edge of the ranch. It is designed in such a way that you turn the main breaker off and connect the main panel (without a meter) on the house 100 feet away with three 3/0 wires. How do I know this??? I did my research and talked to the engineer of the manufacturer who made the meter pedestal. One of the questions I asked him is "won't I need a 4th ground wire?" The answer was a clear and unambiguous NO. There is no place to connect a 4th ground wire in the meter pedestal. That is not done. Is not needed.
> 
> ...


If your meter pedestal contains a disconnect, you need 4 wires going to the 2nd structure, along with ground rods at the pedestal and the 2nd structure, and another disconnect at that second structure as well...


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

jackwashere said:


> The meter pedestal is connected with a #6 cable to a ground rod. Why #6 not #4 as specs would have it??? Because Edison told me to use #6.


Because #6 is allowed to be used on a ground rod....


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

Fix'n it said:


> is that AWG wire ?


He was meaning 3 ought(3/0). Just a misspelling.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

He is confusing a service with a sub panel. He does need four wires unless he is extending the service.

OP. Are you extending the service, or are you installing a sub panel?

Three wire feeders to detached structures were okay at one time and he may be getting old information.


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## jackwashere (May 5, 2010)

J. V. said:


> Are you extending the service, or are you installing a sub panel? Three wire feeders to detached structures were okay at one time and he may be getting old information.


I already addressed this concern about 3 or 4 wires. Oh well! Here goes again. Below is a link to the meter pedestal that I am using. 

http://www.pedestals.net/docs/MHP-AZ_CS.pdf

In the middle diagram in about the middle of the pedestal you will notice the three letters A N B. These three places are where my three wires HNH leading to the house will be installed. Directly above the letters you will notice an entrance hole. That is where the three wire feeders enter. The ground lug on the right side connects to the ground rod outside using #6 wire. It is not a connection accessible from the inside. 

THERE IS NO CONNECTION IN THIS METER PEDESTAL FOR A FOURTH GROUND WIRE.

Are you are insinuating that the manufacturer sold me an obsolete panel? Are you implying that the engineer who I asked about the need for a ground wire was making a terrible mistake when he told me that there is no need for a fourth ground wire? Is that what you are trying to say here?


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

You'll have to add a lug for the fourth wire.:thumbsup:


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys, he is installing a UG service extension from the roadside meter post, up to the house location. The main breaker is (or will be) in the service panel at the house.


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

Oso954 said:


> Guys, he is installing a UG service extension from the roadside meter post, up to the house location. The main breaker is (or will be) in the service panel at the house.


true, but the OP's posts imply a disconnect at the pedestal. If that is the case, he needs four wires, doesn't matter what he was told by the manufacturer.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

For this usage, SoCal Edison (the POCO) usually specs the main lug version of the meter post. The only disconnect at the meter post is to pull the meter.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

The link shown by the OP shows a ground lug. It also shows options at the bottom for MLO or MCB. As has been stated by multiple licensed electricians - IF there is a service disconnect at the pedestal, you need 4 wires to the panel if it is 100 feet away at another structure. I wouldn't put too much stock in the answer from the engineer. They are NOT electricians. How do I know? I'm both.

Mark


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

busman said:


> The link shown by the OP shows a ground lug. It also shows options at the bottom for MLO or MCB. As has been stated by multiple licensed electricians - IF there is a service disconnect at the pedestal, you need 4 wires to the panel if it is 100 feet away at another structure. I wouldn't put too much stock in the answer from the engineer. They are NOT electricians. How do I know? I'm both.
> 
> Mark


I just wanted to point out that the footage doesn't matter in the equation, if the meter has a disconnect, you must have four wires after the disconnect, even if a panel were installed directly next to the meter.....


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

stickboy1375 said:


> I just wanted to point out that the footage doesn't matter in the equation, if the meter has a disconnect, you must have four wires after the disconnect, even if a panel were installed directly next to the meter.....


My point with distance was that you can have the meter and quite a length of 3-wire before the disconnect, but I didn't say that very well. Thanks for the clarification. As Stick said, it needs to be 4-wire past the disconnect.

Mark


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

busman said:


> My point with distance was that you can have the meter and quite a length of 3-wire before the disconnect, but I didn't say that very well. Thanks for the clarification. As Stick said, it needs to be 4-wire past the disconnect.
> 
> Mark


Just the engineer in you talking...  :thumbsup:


As a side note, they require disconnects at pedestal services with meters, I completely understand that it is a structure, but the purpose of a disconnect baffles me, i'm not serving that pedestal structure with power and since the disconnect is for safety of firemen and and like entering the structure, i have a hard time digesting the purpose of this required disconnect.... :huh:


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