# HVAC is not a DIY event.



## Guest (Dec 24, 2003)

*HVAC debate*

HVAC is not a DIY event.


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## Nathan (Dec 5, 2003)

Are you saying there is nothing a Homeowner could do on their own dealing with HVAC?
Couldn't someone have a question regarding filters, pilot lights, maint, etc...?

I don't agree with your statement "unregistered"

By the way, please sign you posts so we know who were talking to, Thanks!


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## comtnman (Dec 23, 2003)

I disagree with that statement also. There are some things that many home owners might feel comfortable doing, and many that are not comfortable working on mechanical systems in their homes. Some just want to be informed on how things work so they might not get ripped off when they have to call in a service tech.
My self I am comfortable doing most things with the furnace I have saved a few hundred dollars doing what I can, but I also know that there are times when you need to call a pro.


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## hatchet (Dec 13, 2003)

I installed my own air conditioning split system. Ran all the piping, sweat the connections, installed the new coil and had a duct connection bent for me and installed it myself. Vacuumed it with borrowed equipment. So I also disagree with that statement. It's been working great for over 2 years.


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

I changed out all the thermostats in my condo. There's one in every room.


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

I would like to see that post deleted.

by the way Nate, I now think registering is needed period!


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

What post Flor? This whole topic?

Ya don't know how bad it hurts me to give out free roof advice. Every tradesman thinks their trade is gold and should only be done by a pro, and chances are we are all right but home owners will always try the stuff themselves, no matter what it is, for obvious reasons.


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## Nathan (Dec 5, 2003)

I deleted an inappropriate post that was right before Florcrafts.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## hatchet (Dec 13, 2003)

I always miss the good stuff..


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Man you should send out the innapropriate stuff to us regs before ya delete it


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

HA! It looks like I was disagreeing with Grump. I know nothing about HVAC, but I did think that other post was uneeded.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 7, 2004)

This may prove the point. Enjoy

http://www.hvacloads.com/talkpics/wallofshame/hvacwars.wmv


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## hatchet (Dec 13, 2003)

That's good stuff Teetorbilt.. haha.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

*opinion about the DIY world!*

Its quite funny sometimes the situations we get into.Why is it a big problem to help someone out of a jam? Is it always about the mighty dollar or maybe we all need to look in the mirror and think about our ability to change someones predicament! I can sure promise you that if you take a little time to be a human being with a little compassion,people will always remember that and it willcome back to you 10 fold! Show a little compassion and consideration to your fellow human being and see how much farther youll progress in this world!:thumbsup:


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

1mastertech said:


> Its quite funny sometimes the situations we get into.Why is it a big problem to help someone out of a jam? Is it always about the mighty dollar or maybe we all need to look in the mirror and think about our ability to change someones predicament! I can sure promise you that if you take a little time to be a human being with a little compassion,people will always remember that and it willcome back to you 10 fold! Show a little compassion and consideration to your fellow human being and see how much farther youll progress in this world!:thumbsup:


ffirst, you posted to a 7 year old thread.

second; hvac has legal restrictions that prevent much of it from being DIY (unless the "yourself" is a licensed hvac tech with the appropriate licensing).


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

hatchet said:


> I installed my own air conditioning split system. Ran all the piping, sweat the connections, installed the new coil and had a duct connection bent for me and installed it myself. Vacuumed it with borrowed equipment. So I also disagree with that statement. It's been working great for over 2 years.


Nitrogen, micron gauge, cfm, the protectors and the killers of a/c systems. Don't pat yourself on the back just yet, I'll be my experience your compressor will die sooner rather than latter. And you have no warranty.

There is a way to do things and then there is the right way. Just saying.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Just some ranting but who brazed the lineset in? Was nitrogen flowed while brazing? Problem if not is oxidation and flaking on the inside. Nitrogen and a micron gauge. You have to accompany a vacuum pump with the use of a micron gauge or you have no idea if moisture or contaminats were removed. These things boil over and dissipate under certain negative pressures, not recordable on normal analogue refrigerant gauges.

Guess what moisture does to the windings of compressors? Eats it alive. 

Cfm? What's your system's static pressures? Too high you say? Not enough air flow across the coil? Air going nowhere. That equals not enough evaporation (due to not enough or lack of air movement across the coil) in the coil resulting in now not only moisture but liquid refrigerant making it back to the compresssor along with any flakes of metal from the brazing. Guess what liquid refrigerant does to a compressor? Eats it alive. Bet your blower motor is struggling too with high sp.

Your system never stood a chance. It is in no way optimal.


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## StahlMaster (Mar 18, 2010)

The guy is right. HVAC is not a DIY event. You also need the DIY Chatroom.

D


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## unicursalhex (Jan 18, 2011)

I agree with dude, HVAC (other than thermostat or filter ect.) is not a DIY thing. But I dont really care if a homeowner screws up his own house, and I don't don't mind helping out with advice whenever I can so here we are... Hatchet, I'm sure if an HVAC pro saw your handy work they would probably laugh but if you're happy and you saved some $$$ more power to ya.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Good luck Hatchet, your name says it all.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

excuse me Mr Nap .I didnt mean to wake you and as far as the laws and so forth a homeowner can pretty much legally do anything with his own home as he pleases.Ive been in this trade for a long time and believe you me Ive seen times where there was all the documentation in the world and they didnt know a damn thing and screwed it up worse.It does depend on the mechaniclly inclined a person is and of course theres specialty tools thats needed to do the job correctly.Dont hold anyone back from the learning process and dont let the almight dollar run your life.If a person lives only by what he can get from others,well soon you wont have squat!think back on your life when you was a "Newbie Rookie". remember those days!


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

Hey Doc ,I like you man You Know whats up and will say how its supposed to be with no beating around the bush.All Im saying is the way our trades been going ,theres a lot of knuckleheads out there that give us a bad name.I live in a area where fraud and b.s. happens all the time.The Senior citezens are prayed on quite often and are really taken to the cleaners and it pisses me off.In most cases the DIYers ask advice and you take the time to explain everything the correct and professional way, they will use your advice and do 1or 2 things,have you do the job or reccomend someone or do some homework and use the answers you gave them to go thru the hiring process of getting there job done. The man THAT DID HIS OWN GIG,YOU PROBABLY WILL HAVE PROBLEMS IN THE LONG RUN .THE NITROGEN DURING BRAZING ,YA NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU CAN BRAZE THE FLAKES ARE THERE AND THE HOTTER YOU GOT IT THE MORE FLAKES YOU GOT .DID YOU INSTALL A NEW FILTER DRIER,PROB NOT IF YOU DID WELL YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE IT SINCE NO NITRO .tHE VACCUM PUMP WELL LETS HOPE YOU HAD IT ON THERE FOR A WHILE BUT YOU REALLY DONT KNOW FOR A PSOITIVE IF YOU DID IT RIGHT .THESE THINGS ALL DETERMINE THE LONGEVITY OF YOUR SYSTEM.mOISTURE IS A KILLER AND WILL ATTACK THE WINDINGS IN A COMPRESSOR CAUSING THEM TO BREAK DOWN AND NOW YOUR SYSTEM IS ACCIDIC AND GUESS WHAT ,ITS FUN TIME!THE PROS AREPROS FOR A REASON AND THATS FOR THE INTEGRITY OF OUR TRADE AND THE ABILITY TO HELP PEOLE IN THE CORRECT WAY!


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

The 'ENTER' key adds spaces----kind of a nice skill to learn---

howeverrifyoudon'tmindreadingrunonsentencesitso.k.withme--mike--


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Don'tyoumeantheSPACEBARaddsspaces?
The
enter
key
does
this.
lol

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I 
haven't
had
enough
coffee
yet
however
i think
that 
unreadable
post
is 
actually
better
that
way
!


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

¡¡¡pɐǝɹ oʇ ʇlnɔıɟɟıp sʇsod ǝʞɐɯ oʇ unɟ ǝɹoɯ sı ʇı ʇɐɥʇ ʞuıɥʇ oslɐ ı


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Ya just really have oʇ love this site, ya know?

....although, as stated in another thread, run-on sʇsod that are ʇlnɔıɟɟıp, if not impossible to read uǝʇɟo get closed and the question (if there actually IS a question) goes unanswered.

DM


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

WOW, Sorry people ,will work on it! Well usually content gets reviewed also...maybe anyway will work on the typing skills so its easier to read. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Hey, no problem.... actually, yours was comparatively EASY to decipher compared to some we've seen here!

DM


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

1mastertech said:


> excuse me Mr Nap .I didnt mean to wake you and as far as the laws and so forth a homeowner can pretty much legally do anything with his own home as he pleases!


Uh, no, you would be incorrect.




> think back on your life when you was a "Newbie Rookie". remember those days!


No, I don't. That would be somewhere prior to my teen years which is a quartet of decades ago and I'm sorry but as I age, memories do fade a bit.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

*did i wake a sleeping giant*

aw you cant be that old,Im a little up there but first off ,never say that nasty 3 letter word.The term is "seasoned" never old. The second thing is never forget where you come from and always remember where your going! If you dont ,I think the technical term for that situation...is called lost! Have a good day today!:thumbsup:


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

1mastertech said:


> *Hey Doc ,I like you man* You Know whats up and will say how its supposed to be with no beating around the bush.All Im saying is the way our trades been going ,theres a lot of knuckleheads out there that give us a bad name.I live in a area where fraud and b.s. happens all the time.!


 
'Preciate it bro. We gotta do this right always or else we give ourselves a bad name. It's not rocket science but it sure as heck isn't just wham bam thank you m'am either!


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## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

1mastertech said:


> excuse me Mr Nap .I didnt mean to wake you and as far as the laws and so forth a homeowner can pretty much legally do anything with his own home as he pleases.Ive been in this trade for a long time and believe you me Ive seen times where there was all the documentation in the world and they didnt know a damn thing and screwed it up worse.It does depend on the mechaniclly inclined a person is and of course theres specialty tools thats needed to do the job correctly.Dont hold anyone back from the learning process and dont let the almight dollar run your life.If a person lives only by what he can get from others,well soon you wont have squat!think back on your life when you was a "Newbie Rookie". remember those days!


I don't mind dispensing advice to those who need it, including advice to call a pro those who obviously shouldn't be 'dabbling' in HVAC. I think we can all agree that there are aspects of HVAC installation and service that are not for the novice and, in fact, could get them seriously injured or killed, or start a fire, or any number of things. Combustion venting, electricity, and burned down homes to name a few.

Also, in my state, a permit is required and if Code Enforcement discovers unpermitted work in process, they _will_ shut the job down and assess penalties. If they discover that the person doing the work is unlicensed, there will be penalties and legal repurcussions. The guilty party can complain or sue all he wants, but the law will agree with C.E. for all the license-required trades.

I'm new to these forums, and I'd agree that the HVAC forum and the other forums are a good thing, and that there are those who are outside the trades but are fully capable of doing the work, but your assertion that the homeowner can legally do anything he likes in his own home is dead wrong in my state and those nearby.


Mark


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## cturman (Jun 7, 2010)

I installed an HVAC system myself also. 1st one was kind of fun bought a bunch of new stuff to do the install. 2nd one was just work. Much faster and easier than the 1st but it wasn't new anymore. 

I would have paid someone if I could trust them to do it right. Problem is some HVAC tech don't follow all the procedures listed here and you don't know who you are going to get.


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

i became a hardcore DIY'er because i simply had no luck finding "professionals" who would spend the time to do a job that lived up to my expectations. i realized that with a sea of "professionals" out there to pick from, there was absolutely no way for me to know which one could live up to my expectations. it's an impossible task and if i ever really needed a job done that i couldn't do i'd have no clue who to call.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

We've been known to turn down a few home owners who thought they knew more than us and wanted things "their way". This is not Burger King. There is your way and then there is the right way. If you are willing to pay top dollar for the best then that is what you will receive and what you thought you were willing to pay is nothing comparatively to what it can cost.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Nate, I'm in Houston, San Antonio's male role model. If you have the funds, I have the time.


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## unicursalhex (Jan 18, 2011)

You have to look for a smaller company to get good HVAC work done. The big companies are just equipment sellers, they are all about how quick they can slam the job in. The flashy sales guy comes out and sells you the world then beaver and butthole show up to do the install at $13 an hour... You want to know who exactly is doing the work.


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## thehvacguy (Oct 30, 2009)

secutanudu said:


> ¡¡¡pɐǝɹ oʇ ʇlnɔıɟɟıp sʇsod ǝʞɐɯ oʇ unɟ ǝɹoɯ sı ʇı ʇɐɥʇ ʞuıɥʇ oslɐ ı


Haha this is wonderful.


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## thehvacguy (Oct 30, 2009)

unicursalhex said:


> You have to look for a smaller company to get good HVAC work done. The big companies are just equipment sellers, they are all about how quick they can slam the job in. The flashy sales guy comes out and sells you the world then beaver and butthole show up to do the install at $13 an hour... You want to know who exactly is doing the work.


I agree. I used to work for a company and i was part of the beaver and butthole doing a shotty job. Then i went to school for the trade and got my epa cert and realized how shotty the work was. It sickens me. I really care about my customers thats why i do residential. I find in my area that 1 man contractors with a helper do the best job


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

good morning ,having my mud to open the eyeballs but always make time to answer people and help out.Im currently writing an e book called "Welcome to the Wonderful World of Air Conditioning and Heating". Im pretty excited about it and its gonna cover the steps needed to design a system that will offer the homeowner a good comfort design system.It will cover all steps to accomplish a complete setup.Theres the regular people here that always amaze me with quality content .I have to remember different states have different rules.I may not know them but I know a/c and you seasoned vets out there,you know who you are ,kudos to you for keeping old school alive and done right.Theres knuckleheads out there that are doing tactics that just damage the integrity of our business and basically give jobs away[scabs] that affects the true revenue this trade can have.Thats ok I guess cuz I go behind them and fix there mess.To bad for homeowners tho well do your homework!:thumbsup:


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

This trade is a trade that never gets old and always has an excellent way to challenge your abilitys and to see if you can accomplish the job correctly to get done what you need to get done.Theres more than one way to skin a cat!I tried to get into the service Army and Corp.Pops did 16yrs didnam 3 times came home and died,cancer kicked his ass.I was in the 5th grade.learned a lot on my own and 19yrs of age was married and 3 fantastic kids,Service wouldnt take me ,bad hearing,I WAS PISSED! Now what. I was able to go to trade school at a place called J.M.Perry Institute in a small place called Yakima Washington.It was a highly accredited school and was a 2 year course.36 started 26 made it I was in the top 5.It was 2 yrs of hell but made it.Class from 8 to 330 and trimmed pears and corn from 5 to 2 in the morning.Death to those that disturbed me on sat mornings.that was in 78 and 79 and Ive grown in this trade ever since.Ive done both installs and service.I enjoy doing custom homes where people do it right and set it up to where your home is cooled evenly throughoutwith no hot and cold spots .I currently have a freon certification card ,e.p.a. card, universal certification to handle and recover freons,I specialize in diagnostic troubleshooting,electrical and control circuits are fun as well.I have a Master Tech cerification from The Heat Pump Council,also have a Nate cerification.Im currently looking into a test thats for the elite! The best of the best.Its through the R.S.E.Society and if you pass this accredidation,well theres not to much more you can do with your credentials! I know only a couple people that has done this and its my next challenge.Ive worked from the pacific northwest thru oregon and Nevada and made it to the sunbelt and loving every minute of it! Im in the valley of the sun and its nice.Wanted to share a little of my background with people and this forum and here to say I love to help with quality info and a job well done.If your going to do the JOB<do it RIGHT or dont do it at all.Its ok if someone doesnt know something,kudos to those who are looking for answers,that builds character and integrity! God Bless !


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## unicursalhex (Jan 18, 2011)

thehvacguy said:


> I agree. I used to work for a company and i was part of the beaver and butthole doing a shotty job. Then i went to school for the trade and got my epa cert and realized how shotty the work was. It sickens me. I really care about my customers thats why i do residential. I find in my area that 1 man contractors with a helper do the best job


Haha 9 out of 10 of us have been beaver or butthole at some time in our career... Its funny how easy it is to get into that pattern and stay there. I was lucky enough to figure out that what I was being instructed to do was crazy fairly quickly...


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

1mastertech said:


> This trade is a trade that never gets old and always has an excellent way to challenge your abilitys and to see if you can accomplish the job correctly to get done what you need to get done.Theres more than one way to skin a cat!I tried to get into the service Army and Corp.Pops did 16yrs didnam 3 times came home and died,cancer kicked his ass.I was in the 5th grade.learned a lot on my own and 19yrs of age was married and 3 fantastic kids,Service wouldnt take me ,bad hearing,I WAS PISSED! Now what. I was able to go to trade school at a place called J.M.Perry Institute in a small place called Yakima Washington.It was a highly accredited school and was a 2 year course.36 started 26 made it I was in the top 5.It was 2 yrs of hell but made it.Class from 8 to 330 and trimmed pears and corn from 5 to 2 in the morning.Death to those that disturbed me on sat mornings.that was in 78 and 79 and Ive grown in this trade ever since.Ive done both installs and service.I enjoy doing custom homes where people do it right and set it up to where your home is cooled evenly throughoutwith no hot and cold spots .I currently have a freon certification card ,e.p.a. card, universal certification to handle and recover freons,I specialize in diagnostic troubleshooting,electrical and control circuits are fun as well.I have a Master Tech cerification from The Heat Pump Council,also have a Nate cerification.Im currently looking into a test thats for the elite! The best of the best.Its through the R.S.E.Society and if you pass this accredidation,well theres not to much more you can do with your credentials! I know only a couple people that has done this and its my next challenge.Ive worked from the pacific northwest thru oregon and Nevada and made it to the sunbelt and loving every minute of it! Im in the valley of the sun and its nice.Wanted to share a little of my background with people and this forum and here to say I love to help with quality info and a job well done.If your going to do the JOB<do it RIGHT or dont do it at all.Its ok if someone doesnt know something,kudos to those who are looking for answers,that builds character and integrity! God Bless !


The ENTER key adds spaces.:whistling2:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

oh'mike said:


> The ENTER key adds spaces.:whistling2:


I always thought it was the "space bar" that adds "spaces". And the "enter key" that was the "end of line" key. 

However, 
I'm
old 
so 
things 
may 
not 
work 
like 
I 
remember 
they 
do. 
:wink:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

We've 
been 
through
this
before....
it 
won't
matter....

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You 
are
right
!
What 
was
hoping
to do
?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

eYe
wAnt
2
plAy
2
!
WUt
iZ
wE
tAlKin'
bOot
?
:thumbup:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

New members:Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--

Pot and Kettle ^ perhaps? :laughing:

DM


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

1mastertech said:


> This trade is a trade that never gets old and always has an excellent way to challenge your abilitys and to see if you can accomplish the job correctly to get done what you need to get done.
> 
> Theres more than one way to skin a cat!I tried to get into the service Army and Corp. Pops did 16 yrs did nam 3 times came home and died, cancer kicked his ass. I was in the 5th grade. Learned a lot on my own and 19 yrs of age was married and 3 fantastic kids, Service wouldn't take me, bad hearing, I WAS PISSED! Now what.
> 
> ...


Could have, should have looked something like this^^^^^^^

The art of writing is not word count, it's making your words count.

Mark


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> eYe
> wAnt
> 2
> plAy
> ...


Punctuation, grammar, spacing, spelling, capitalization, etc. all make it easier to read a member's post. 
When many/most of our readers see thiskindofcraptheysimplyclosethethreadandgoontothenextone,
sothepersonpostinglikethiswillmostlikelynotbeassisted.
Simple, huh? Members soon to be banned are excused.

DM


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

DangerMouse said:


> Punctuation, grammar, spacing, spelling, capitalization, etc. all make it easier to read a member's post.
> When many/most of our readers see thiskindofcraptheysimplyclosethethreadandgoontothenextone,
> sothepersonpostinglikethiswillmostlikelynotbeassisted.
> Simple, huh? Members soon to be banned are excused.
> ...


 
*Huh?whoisabouttobebannedandforwhy?Eyedon'tgtitwhatsoeverasI'venotseenorwitnessedasinglepersontypewherewordsarenoteasilyvisible,notontortoiseanyway*.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

DM, I am a huge fan of proper grammar and articulation. I can't stand it when people can't differentiate between the proper use of "your" and "you're" in a sentence moreso than anything else, makes me want to reach right through the internet waves and throttle them, but I've come to realize and accept that some people just are not good at typing or at grammar or both. 

I guess what I'm saying is I haven't seen anyone purposely go out of their (that's another thing that gets me, the "there" and their") way to misalign the English language so I'm only curious as to who was about to be banned, not that it's really any of my business.

No need to answer, it isn't any of my business, only explaining myself.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

And don't forget they're.... as in....
"It reflects poorly on our schools when they're graduating students who cannot read or write well, if at all."

DM


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

eYe nOw. iZ DuH bEe duH naT zoO cLevereSteSt oF dUh kIndeRgArtNeR wEnCe duH daT haPpenS. 

Adios, I have me another sub contracting job interview to attend to and a working furnace in my living room that I've been playing around with, sharpening my diagnostics skills, that needs to be trashed and a truck bed that has an evaporator coil and a condensing unit taking up space that needs to be sold for scrap.

Out, you guys have a good one!


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

Sometimes grammatical or spelling mistakes are funny, so I don't mind. Like when thehvacguy said "shotty" when he meant "shoddy". I just pictured a homeowner screwing up his central air so badly that he just decided to take a 12 ga to it, and all was well.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

DangerMouse said:


> New members:Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
> 
> Pot and Kettle ^ perhaps? :laughing:
> 
> DM


Uh...... Wouldn't the coordinates you list in your avatar could put you somewhere in the Arctic Ocean. :laughing: :whistling2: :wink:

I think you could mess around with it and get you somewhere near Kalamazoo......

(Just for general reference, the continental U.S. runs from about 26N to 49N and 74W to 124W.)


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Actually, those put me 3,000 ft. above the Kalamazoo/Battle Creek regional airport in K-zoo, yup.
They won't land and let me off the plane......

DM


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Brooks field? Helluva first step out that plane door.

This will get you close to my house... 28"08'51.37n 82"41'22.61w

( 28 08 51.37n 82 41 22.61w on Google Earth)


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

They said they'd be happy to open the door and let me out if I want, but they're fresh out of parachutes too.....

DM


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

DangerMouse said:


> They said they'd be happy to open the door and let me out if I want, but they're fresh out of parachutes too.....
> 
> DM



I guess flapping your arms won't work, huh. :laughing:


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