# At a crossroads in my basement project - waterproofing help needed



## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

So you know that fixing it from the outside is the best solution. And you know that you do not want to spend that kind of money. Only solution is the interior perimeter drain system. Be sure to use dual pumps with an alarm. Get a good warranty. Many companies specialize in this work and it will only take one to two days.


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

as with any company you have to be careful, but there are companies that do crack repair, water proofing of basements. I dont' think my brother in law will travel that far but epoxy injection is used for this type work. I'd contact a few contractors and get some bids, at least you would know your options. In theory when you apply the hydrualic cement, you are only covering the surface, the water is putting too much pressure on the backside of it to hold back., And if you succeed in closing one crack, the water, still being there, will find the next open crack.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

anyone who'd suggest epoxy on a block fnd is nutz OR selling epoxies.

either an exterior full perimeter toe drain running to daylight OR interior system - either will probably need pumps.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If completely empty of stuff, now is the time to put in a perimeter drain system, and a sump well. That is the only way to get rid of the water, besides digging up around the outside of the foundation, and bring up to date with a outside drain system, and waterproofing the outside of the blocks. This is something that I would like to do with my home, but to have someone do it, it is anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000. To do myself, around $2,000.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

Just wondering if any of you have installed/have any of these systems. I'd like to know if someone has something and it's working. 

The water that comes in really isn't that much. Little streams everywhere. It comes in so slowly that I cannot even really find where it's coming in. 

The only "systems" that appeal to me are these:

http://www.basementsystems.com/base...oofing-products/drainage-systems/drytrak.html

or:

http://www.basementsystems.com/base...ing-products/drainage-systems/waterguard.html

But both involve letting water IN to my basement (which isn't really waterPROOFing). Since I don't get much water, won't it just sit there in the trench and mold? What's going to move it out of the little trench area?


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

I got a quote on this system:
http://www.basementsystems.com/base...ing-products/drainage-systems/waterguard.html

And it was about $5,000 with a triple backup sump. Remember, I have a very small basement. 

However, I'm still wondering this: won't the water get below that trench and sit in the gravel? I'm just not keen on the idea of drilling weep holes into the cement to let in more water. That water that comes in contains dirt, so over time, won't I get dirt in this system? 

I don't mind spending $5000 on this system, but it has to be perfect.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

So here's my question. 

Picture A: What is to stop the water from getting UNDER the WaterGuard and sitting there in the rocks? Won't it just sit there and mold? Stagnant water?

Picture B: Again, how does water not get UNDER the WaterGuard?

I think the company in my area does these installs like picture A; the WaterGuard sets on top of gravel. 

Thoughts anyone?


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

to clarify, I"m not "completely" nuts, maybe partial, but anyway, sorry I missed the important part about being block foundation, it was a long post and my attention span isn't like it used to be


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

Yes, it was a VERY long post. :laughing: I'm very thorough.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Yeah well, no-one said these are the best ways to deal with water runoff. For 'perfection', someone has already said it has to be attacked from the outside, if that's possible.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

Anyone in here have/install any kind of system inside of out? I'd really love to hear from some people who actually have either 1) done the work or 2) do the work for others.


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi Callisto

It is so nice to find a customer like you, that actually does his/her homework and ask all the right questions! 
I am not sure when you scheduled your quote with the local Basement Systems dealer, but you should be receiving the Dry Basement Science book which would help you understand a bit more about the products and how they work. If you didn’t get it, please call the dealer and ask for your copy.

That said, I will try to address your questions to the best of my abilities.

First of all, let me clarify that the DryTrak system you mentioned is designed exclusively for monolithic foundations, and as we can see in the picture, it is clearly not the case here. So, the best system for you would be the WaterGuard.

Q- _“there’s no way you can stop water from building pressure against your house so invite it in and route it away”_

A- That information is a bit mixed. What we do say is that there’s no sure way to stop water from getting through the foundation by trying to fix it from the outside. What happens if the water is under the floor to begin with? It is incorrect to assume that the WaterGuard system simply invites the water in and then diverts it away. The WaterGuard intercepts and collects ground water, considerably relieving the hydrostatic pressure which pushes the water against the basement walls, exactly to stop most of it from coming in, in the first place. It also intercepts and collects any moisture infiltrating the walls due to capillary action as well as water sprung from leaks in exceptionally rainy season. But most importantly, it collects water springing from under the slab as well.
Another thing to consider and many homeowners forget: basement water problems come from more than just ground water seepage. Components of the WaterGuard System also deal with basement floods than can happen due to plumbing leaks, leaky water heater tanks and washing machine hoses and similar accidents. Water will have a way out of the basement, no matter where it is coming from.

Q- _“Picture A: What is to stop the water from getting UNDER the WaterGuard and sitting there in the rocks? Won't it just sit there and mold? Stagnant water?”_

A - The WaterGuard is indeed installed like in the picture A, on top of a bed of gravel. The water is leaking in one of 2 ways: Through the floor/wall joint or pushing up right from under the floor itself. The WaterGuard is made to sit on top of the footing and NOT down in the dirt where it is sure to clog. If water rises under the house it will go into the WaterGuard system and sump system. More likely, if it is coming in through the wall/floor joint, then yes the footing under the WaterGuard can be wet…but it is already! If you dug a hole under your house, you would find damp and wet dirt & stone. This is fine. The earth is wet and that is good! There is nothing to become mildewed under the floor. Mold will not grow on the WaterGuard because it is entirely plastic. In addition let me remind you that the Sump Pump tied to the system is also located in the low spot of the basement floor, and for a good reason – so everything drains to the sump! 


Q_- “That water that comes in contains dirt, so over time, won't I get dirt in this system?”_

A- Consider this: How dirty is your basement floor after the water comes in? A slight amount of dirt may come onto your floor when the wall/floor joint leaks, and as long as it’s not clay or iron ochre, (which will be red or orange) will flow right through the WaterGuard and not clog. (We have a special system for the iron ochre scenario). If for some reason there are large amounts of dirt getting in, it is in fact the only sub floor drainage system that includes ports in which the channel can be flushed, inspected or used to drain a dehumidifier into! Watch out for contractors who say their system is “self-flushing”. Also, when you install a WaterGuard, periodic maintenance is scheduled to make sure the system remains functional for the life of the structure.


_“If I go the professional waterproofing route, I want it done once and done right. I have a history of home improvement problems with handymen, professionals and just about anyone who enters this house. I’m picky and I expect near perfection when I’m shelling out 100s upon 1000s of dollars.”_

I’ve learned this in psychology class but it applies to everything in life, especially business: The best predictor of future performance is past performance. So here’s something for you to consider:

WaterGuard is a patented, award-winning system, developed by the world’s largest and most reputable waterproofing company, with over two decades of success in the waterproofing business and spotless service record.

The company’s HQ in CT is the only in the State to win 3 times the Prestigious BBB Torch Award for Excellence in Workplace Ethics!

The WaterGuard System carries a Transferable Lifetime Warranty backed up by a company that has been in business long enough to ensure its customers it will be there for years to come to honor the Warranty.

But don’t take our word for it. Please check your local dealer’s reputation with the BBB, look for online reviews, and ask them for references. They will be more than happy to send them to you. And by all means, check them all out.

All of us in the network take pride in the quality of service we offer and the products we install. 

I hope I answered all your questions and if I did not, feel free to ask some more, or contact the local dealer as I know they too will be happy to answer all your questions.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

First, let me thank you SO MUCH for answering my questions. It helps me out immensely. :thumbsup:



CyFree said:


> Hi Callisto
> I am not sure when you scheduled your quote with the local Basement Systems dealer, but you should be receiving the Dry Basement Science book which would help you understand a bit more about the products and how they work. If you didn’t get it, please call the dealer and ask for your copy.


I did indeed get all those materials when someone came out. However, it's been about two years, so I'm not sure I still have it. I've poured over the website, so I'm mostly familiar with the available systems. 



CyFree said:


> Q- _“there’s no way you can stop water from building pressure against your house so invite it in and route it away”_
> 
> A- That information is a bit mixed. What we do say is that there’s no sure way to stop water from getting through the foundation by trying to fix it from the outside. What happens if the water is under the floor to begin with? It is incorrect to assume that the WaterGuard system simply invites the water in and then diverts it away. The WaterGuard intercepts and collects ground water, considerably relieving the hydrostatic pressure which pushes the water against the basement walls, exactly to stop most of it from coming in, in the first place. It also intercepts and collects any moisture infiltrating the walls due to capillary action as well as water sprung from leaks in exceptionally rainy season. But most importantly, it collects water springing from under the slab as well.


Does Basement Systems drill "weep holes" into the block foundation when installing the WaterGuard system? That's what I meant by "inviting water in". 



CyFree said:


> Q- _“Picture A: What is to stop the water from getting UNDER the WaterGuard and sitting there in the rocks? Won't it just sit there and mold? Stagnant water?”_
> 
> A - <snip> Mold will not grow on the WaterGuard because it is entirely plastic. In addition let me remind you that the Sump Pump tied to the system is also located in the low spot of the basement floor, and for a good reason – so everything drains to the sump!


I have so little water that comes in, if that water sits there stagnant UNDER the WaterGuard, that's where I wonder if it will mold/smell. 



CyFree said:


> Q_- “That water that comes in contains dirt, so over time, won't I get dirt in this system?”_
> 
> A- Consider this: How dirty is your basement floor after the water comes in? A slight amount of dirt may come onto your floor when the wall/floor joint leaks, and as long as it’s not clay or iron ochre, (which will be red or orange) will flow right through the WaterGuard and not clog. (We have a special system for the iron ochre scenario). If for some reason there are large amounts of dirt getting in, it is in fact the only sub floor drainage system that includes ports in which the channel can be flushed, inspected or used to drain a dehumidifier into! Watch out for contractors who say their system is “self-flushing”. Also, when you install a WaterGuard, periodic maintenance is scheduled to make sure the system remains functional for the life of the structure.


This makes sense. Thank you. 



CyFree said:


> But don’t take our word for it. Please check your local dealer’s reputation with the BBB, look for online reviews, and ask them for references. They will be more than happy to send them to you. And by all means, check them all out.
> 
> All of us in the network take pride in the quality of service we offer and the products we install.
> 
> I hope I answered all your questions and if I did not, feel free to ask some more, or contact the local dealer as I know they too will be happy to answer all your questions.


Thank you, again, for coming in and providing answers. I get suspicious when people get defensive or angry when I ask questions and you did neither. I've read A LOT about basement waterproofing online and so many people get angry, yell, attack the other person and just belittle anyone asking questions. I can tell you work for a Basement Systems dealer and it's nice to see someone helpful and professional. I can have all the faith in the world in a product, but if there is no customer service to back up the company, I have a hard time investing in that company. 

So far, I've talked to two people who have the system installed (and have had it for 3+ years) and are very happy. I'm looking to get 5 people who are satisfied and then I'll call for another quote. I always trust actual customers over the company. :yes: They are the ones who live with the work performed every day.

Thanks again. I appreciate it. :thumbup:


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

Q - _Does Basement Systems drill "weep holes" into the block foundation when installing the WaterGuard system? That's what I meant by "inviting water in". _

A - Yes, we do drill wep holes in block foundations because the water tends to be trapped inside the hollow blocks. I guess we can pretty much say in that case that we water is already in, slowly seeping through and the weeping holes are meant to let it out. 

Q - _I have so little water that comes in, if that water sits there stagnant UNDER the WaterGuard, that's where I wonder if it will mold/smell.
_ 
That is why we install the sump pump in the lowest corner of the basement, and before we lay the drain tiles we test to see if all the water that gets in the trench will be able to run into the sump to minimize the chances of that ever happening.

_So far, I've talked to two people who have the system installed (and have had it for 3+ years) and are very happy. 

_ Our local dealer will be happy to give you references of their own and we invite you to contact them all.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

CyFree said:


> Q - _Does Basement Systems drill "weep holes" into the block foundation when installing the WaterGuard system? That's what I meant by "inviting water in". _
> 
> A - Yes, we do drill wep holes in block foundations because the water tends to be trapped inside the hollow blocks. I guess we can pretty much say in that case that we water is already in, slowly seeping through and the weeping holes are meant to let it out.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for your answers. I will be asking them for references.


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## topgunstl (Feb 22, 2010)

CyFree said:


> Hi Callisto
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, let me clarify that the DryTrak system you mentioned is designed exclusively for monolithic foundations, and as we can see in the picture, it is clearly not the case here. So, the best system for you would be the WaterGuard.


Why is that if I can ask? So the system would not work for a brick block wall, but rather you have to look for an in ground drain tile/sump system with a brick block wall? I'm in the same situation as Callisto and would appreciate any feedback. Thanks


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

not going to get involved w/stepping on another contractor's sale as we've sold/installed both his interior systems + we'll excavate & stop wtr intrusion that way - whichever's best for the situation is what we recommend HOWEVER its the customer's home/$$$ so they're free to select.

our local ' Basement Systems ' guy's a friend,,, i respect him & he runs a good biz,,, we're there to solve problems & he's there to sell sump pumps,,, i'll let someone else decide who's right :yes: bsmt sys came up more w/a marketing plan than anything new in the basement waterproofing trade area,,, their ' cove system ' isn't new but it sure looked new in their brochure.

don't shoot the guy who's trying to resolve a problem created by inadequate building code :no: a quik word about the ' inviting water in ' part - you'll never stop moisture drilling weep holes NOR will you prevent block rot, wall damage, & eventual wall collapse/replacement by allowing soil-acid rich water to pass thru your home's very fine foundation walls :no: you may've sold the house before it happens but it will happen.

quik point - we've got masonary block fnd walls & there's a leak in 1 corner promoting the growth of the nastiest blk mold spire you ever saw  i spray it w/bleach ever 6mos or so,,, at 67 & 65, we'll move sooner to a 1story,,, prior to moving, i'll dig in a dry well - clean the walls w/my aurand, & coat w/epoxy thereby allowing me to honestly disclose the problem/repr as rqd by law :whistling2:

as always, caveat emptor - your home - your choice :thumbup:


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

oh - here's a ps,,, we're finishing up 1 this am which's a full footer excavation, exterior waterproofing ( 35lf ) w/sonolastic, protection course of pvc miradrain/delta drain, toe drain leading to sump w/12'riser for pump access when it finally needs replacing - ONLY ZOELLER PUMPS, EVER, btw.

why the sump & pump ? if we stop wtr where its entering steve's bsmt now, it'll only find another weak point & penetrate there next - cost of this project's $8.5k - 3days work hand dig & backfill - 3 men,,, 3 GREAT men ! :thumbup:

as implied previously, tom's bsmt systems would never bld this system due to liability,,, if the interior sys ***** the bed, its only because the pump stopped working - not their problem,,, as said, they're there to sell pumps - we're there to fix things,,, just a different mindset !


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

See, that's how I see the weep holes thing - you're inviting MORE water in your basement. That's just how it appears to me.

I haven't made a decision yet...I'm going to sit on it for one more year and see how it goes.


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## badbuz (Feb 23, 2010)

Fixing any leak has to be done from the outside. You have water coming in at the footing of your foundation which tell me you need to fix repair or replace you weeping tile. Once you have dug out the dirt around the house and repaired the weeping tile i would cover the walls with "Blueskin". This is a "peel and stick" membrane that will prevent water from coming in through the mortar joints. Apply this from the bottom of the foundation and work your way up the wall with a 2 inch overlap.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

badbuz said:


> Fixing any leak has to be done from the outside. You have water coming in at the footing of your foundation which tell me you need to fix repair or replace you weeping tile. Once you have dug out the dirt around the house and repaired the weeping tile i would cover the walls with "Blueskin". This is a "peel and stick" membrane that will prevent water from coming in through the mortar joints. Apply this from the bottom of the foundation and work your way up the wall with a 2 inch overlap.


See, that's my problem. I can't bear the idea of digging around my entire foundation. I have landscaping on two sides of the house.

I wonder how much it costs, per side, to do this kind of waterproofing.


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## badbuz (Feb 23, 2010)

The hardest part of the job is the dig...the rest is easy...the weeping tile can be done in about 2-3 hours..the Blueskin if never done before is a 2 person job and can be done in 3-4 hours.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

badbuz said:


> The hardest part of the job is the dig...the rest is easy...the weeping tile can be done in about 2-3 hours..the Blueskin if never done before is a 2 person job and can be done in 3-4 hours.


The hardest part for me is tearing up my yard and undoing three years of hard work/landscaping. 

I'm half-tempted to hydraulic cement the rest of the basement where the wall meets the floor and see what happens. It seems to be holding in the one area I did last fall.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

callisto9 said:


> The hardest part for me is tearing up my yard and undoing three years of hard work/landscaping.
> 
> I'm half-tempted to hydraulic cement the rest of the basement where the wall meets the floor and see what happens. It seems to be holding in the one area I did last fall.


 
I hate to sound like a downer, but I don't think you'll see any kind of long term solutions from your approaches. The hydraulic will either fail in short order, or the water will eventually seep in above or around it.

You mentioned the water coming in is minimal. As someone who does some conventional fndtn. repair, I'd say the seepage in your pics is far from minimal. The one wall is in fairly tough shape as well. The wall thats about 5 feet from the WH w/ 2 basement windows in it has some serious deflection. Is this the wall that was repaired at the sale? If so, how did they "fix" it?

I have to agree w/ IRC & the others on this one, the exterior is the only long term repair for what you have there. The plastic channel is nothing more than a very expensive band-aid IMO. It's really set way too high to be effective at controlling ground water as well.

Like I said earlier, I don't want to be negative about this, but there is no way I would ever recommend that a customer spend the money to finish a basement in that condition. Sorry to say, but it's either gonna cost you the money to repair the exterior of the foundation now, or it's gonna cost alot more later when you add the cost of demoing all your interior work as well.

Best of luck in w/e you choose.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> I hate to sound like a downer, but I don't think you'll see any kind of long term solutions from your approaches. The hydraulic will either fail in short order, or the water will eventually seep in above or around it.
> 
> You mentioned the water coming in is minimal. As someone who does some conventional fndtn. repair, I'd say the seepage in your pics is far from minimal. The one wall is in fairly tough shape as well. The wall thats about 5 feet from the WH w/ 2 basement windows in it has some serious deflection. Is this the wall that was repaired at the sale? If so, how did they "fix" it?
> 
> ...


Thank you. I don't mind you being negative. I'm used to it. However, I am no longer intimidated by my basement or people's response to it. I'm used to contractors and the like trying to scare the crap out of me about my house. Simply put, I'm just not that worried about it. 

Yes, the foundation has cracks. The cracks have been patched. One wall was fixed when I bought the house from the bank (it was a foreclosure). However, due to the small size of the house, just about any expense that needs to be taken to fix the basement, I can afford. Walls can be fixed or pushed back. I have many options. That's kinda the point of this thread...advice. 

I really have no intention of finishing the basement. I just want it clean and waterproofed. I believe that can be accomplished with an interior drain system. I just don't know that I want to spend $5,000 on a system that lets MORE water into my basement. I'm just not sold on it yet. I might have to make my peace with an exterior system if someone can prove to me the system/method is better and will 100% solve the problem. 

What's funny is that I see a lot of people say that such-and-such will fail, yet in all the reading I've done online (and I've done tons), no one has ever mentioned trying hydraulic cement for small leaks and having it fail. Many people are happy with their interior drain system and the water has not caused the walls to collapse (never heard of this happening, as itsreallyconc said). Also, in all the reading I've done, a lot people will say "this _won't_ work" or "this _will_ fail" yet I see no one saying "this DID fail". You see my point? A lot of people are just so quick to say something will happen, but I see little evidence of it. 

Thanks for your advice jomama45, I appreciate it. I'm taking all advice (but not anyone's scare tactics) into consideration. :yes:


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

callisto9 said:


> Yes, the foundation has cracks. The cracks have been patched. One wall was fixed when I bought the house from the bank (it was a foreclosure). However, due to the small size of the house, just about any expense that needs to be taken to fix the basement, I can afford. Walls can be fixed or pushed back. I have many options. That's kinda the point of this thread...advice.
> 
> 
> I'm still interested to hear how they "fixed" the wall. If they merely tuckpointed the interior, that didn't address the problem at all, other than from an aesthetic veiwpoint.
> ...


 
I'm definately not a scare tactic kind of contractor. I've told many customers with fndtn. problems that they can buy a few years w/o repair. Generally, people just want ot get it done so that they can go on with finishing their basement, they're tired of worrying about rains, sick of the excess dampness/mold/humidity, etc... But most of all, these jobs 75% of the time come along at the sale of a home. I can tell you that there is nothing that turns away prospective buyers faster than a problematic basement. I just looked at one again a few days ago. Prospective buyers pulled out their offer after the home inspecter accessed the basement walls. When there's so many homes on the market, buyers see no need to consider one that has a bad foundation, they just move on.

I realize you probably don't plan on moving anytime soon, but the point I'm getting at is that it will not get any cheaper. I would reccommend having the basement fixed when funds permit & enjoy it rather than be forced to have the repairs made at sale & not enjoy years of a dry, stable basement.

If you have your mind set on the interior containment approach, you may want ot take a look at this site as well:

http://www.mtidry.com/basement/

Best of luck.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> I'm definately not a scare tactic kind of contractor. I've told many customers with fndtn. problems that they can buy a few years w/o repair. Generally, people just want ot get it done so that they can go on with finishing their basement, they're tired of worrying about rains, sick of the excess dampness/mold/humidity, etc... But most of all, these jobs 75% of the time come along at the sale of a home. I can tell you that there is nothing that turns away prospective buyers faster than a problematic basement. I just looked at one again a few days ago. Prospective buyers pulled out their offer after the home inspecter accessed the basement walls. When there's so many homes on the market, buyers see no need to consider one that has a bad foundation, they just move on.
> 
> I realize you probably don't plan on moving anytime soon, but the point I'm getting at is that it will not get any cheaper. I would reccommend having the basement fixed when funds permit & enjoy it rather than be forced to have the repairs made at sale & not enjoy years of a dry, stable basement.
> 
> ...


I didn't take you to be one of those scare tactic types, just pointing out that I'm far past being scared of any contractor at this point. I know a bought a piece of crap house, LOL, it was all I could afford. It used to keep me up at night, worrying about it, but four years in, I'm just no longer scared of my basement. 

The one wall that WAS fixed was trenched out and pushed back. A brace was set for a few days then removed. I couldn't tell you much else, to be honest. It appears there is a layer of styrofoam on the outside, though I have no idea what good that's doing. It's certainly not holding water back. The repair was made for stability, not waterproofing. If I knew now what I knew then...I would have told that bank to fix the entire foundation and waterproof it before I bought it, BUT I didn't know anything back then. Plus, all the walls were covered with paneling and I had no idea just how bad those walls were and of course, didn't check. 

There is NO WAY I'd finish a basement like this. I have no intention of putting drywall or framing back down there ever again. I kinda just want a cleaned-up rec room of sorts. A place where my boyfriend can play drums. A place for me to be crafty without making a mess. 

I'm not worried about my walls collapsing. I'm sure I'd have a little advance notice they were caving in on me as I'm down there all the time. 

Thanks again for your input. I really do appreciate it.


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## arid (Feb 28, 2010)

my two cents...

i've been waterproofing basement for 20 years now.

two ways water gets in....either down the foundation wall from poor grading (usually pooling within 5' from the house), clogged gutters or leaders not extended at least 5'....the only other way is from ground water, water table, underground streams, etc...when you mentioned only on the heavy rains and where the floor meets the wall...my mind went to water table. 

if it is stemming from below the house, the only PERMANENT way of stopping the water is to put an interior french drain. you can do it from the outside, will cost you about double to triple...kiss your wonderful landscaping that you did and NO ONE will give you a guarantee of no water in the basement...if they do, they are rolling the dice.

i DO NOT like the basement systems way of waterproofing....first of all, their pipe sits on the footing and is not pitched...no bueno. you have to have whatever pipe you use (i only use PVC, not that PE-corrugated crap) pitched to the sump...second, ask the basement systems guy what happens when the bottom cinder block is filled with cement which most of the time they are...third, i only bleed the blocks when water is squirting out of the wall or if the wall looks REALLY BAD....as easy as POROUS cinder blocks fill up with water is as easy as water exits when the water table subsides...of course with everything, there are some exceptions. if the bottom cinder block is filled...go into the next course and anchor some flashing on the wall as a deflective device.

as for the triple sump pump....look at the capacity of the backup pumps....i install 1/3 horsepower pumps and my battery backup pump is also 1/3...both put out 3000 gph at 5'. going with an smaller pump as a backup is like having a donut as a spare on an SUV.

for your size basement...you should not pay anymore than $6000. and that's with the backup pump.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

arid said:


> my two cents...
> 
> i've been waterproofing basement for 20 years now.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your honest opinion. I appreciate it.

What do think will be the problems, specifically, if I have a Basement Systems solution put it?

I've always though it strange that the pipes aren't pitched, either. How will water move towards the sump if the pipe is level with the ground? 

I have a feeling no matter what, Basement Systems will only do things one way. I'm pretty sure they are trained for only one type of install solution for the interior drainage systems. 

Again, thank you. I appreciate it. 

Let me know when you're in Iowa... :laughing:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

My house is from the 50's (stream on the side of the property)
Original drain system below the basement floor
4 pipes that ruin into the sump pit

1) One 4" that looks like it runs thru the middle of the floor - possibly toi the far corner
2) One 3" pipe that looks like it runs along the back wall
3) One 3" pipe that runs towards the front wall & maybe along it ?
4) One 2" pipe that runs along the near short side wall
I do not believe they are all tied together as I only get most of the water from #1 & #3

The back wall now has a sunroom that sheds water further out from the house
The near side wall has a new garage foundation/roof in that sheds water further away
So it makes sense that these 2 pipes have very little water now

Changes I made:
My sump pump now pumps water 40' away from the house
New additions drain water further away w/new roofs
Front downspout goes into a drainage pipe that leads 15' away from the house
Side downspout goes further away from the house
Back downspout goes into same drainage system as the sump pump - goes 40' away
Regraded side yard to shed water 3' away from the house

1st 3 years sump pump ran every Spring quite a bit
Now it hardly runs at all....I actually kick it on myself when we have heavy rain fills the sump pump some just as a test
It will run for ~12 minutes at a time now & pumps out about 600g of water

I don't know who built it, but they knew what they were doing


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## bound2see (Apr 16, 2010)

*semi-retired pro*

I spent 20 years helping people with just your predicament. Also worked in mold as well as structural issues.
By now you know to fix the obvious, (downspouts and run-off) -- after that a lot depends on your expectations. There are several ways to learn how serious the problem is, how likely you'll get satisfaction, how to protect your investment, and how to decide when and how to finish your space.

It's a bit much to cover here, but if you're still kicking this around we could likely come to some best strategy in a 20 minute conversation.

Meantime, hang in there, ......be glad your beach property is not wondering how to fend off rising sea level....

 Dave


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

bound2see said:


> I spent 20 years helping people with just your predicament. Also worked in mold as well as structural issues.
> By now you know to fix the obvious, (downspouts and run-off) -- after that a lot depends on your expectations. There are several ways to learn how serious the problem is, how likely you'll get satisfaction, how to protect your investment, and how to decide when and how to finish your space.
> 
> It's a bit much to cover here, but if you're still kicking this around we could likely come to some best strategy in a 20 minute conversation.
> ...


The basement is all cleaned up now and I just have to decide if I want to waterproof it or not. I told myself I wasn't going to make the decision this year, but I will likely start getting quotes soon. 

I am definitely still considering this, just haven't decided what route to go. It's nice now having the extra 700SF, would be nice to use it year-round.


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

Well, I had it done! I went with an INTERIOR perimeter system, similar to Basement Systems method, only this contractor put the corrugated drain tile UNDER the footing. Sump pump with battery back up, too. 

Crew left an absolute MESS and my walls and stairs will have to be repainted. :furious: Hopefully the work below ground wasn't as sloppy. I just had it done this week and no major rains thus far, so way too early to tell if anything's amiss. I plan on coming back into this thread and updating with my success/failure of this system. Wish me luck!


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## callisto9 (Dec 26, 2009)

Well, three months in and no problems. I plan on checking back in here during the spring when we've had a ton of rain. So far, so good.

Hope my experience can help someone else make a decision (or not). 

Cost for subfloor basement "waterproofing" for 720SF was $4300. I have a feeling I could have bartered, but I'm not the bartering sort. :no:


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

thanks for updating us


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## 6burgh (Nov 7, 2010)

5 years Any updates? LOL




callisto9 said:


> Well, three months in and no problems. I plan on checking back in here during the spring when we've had a ton of rain. So far, so good.
> 
> Hope my experience can help someone else make a decision (or not).
> 
> Cost for subfloor basement "waterproofing" for 720SF was $4300. I have a feeling I could have bartered, but I'm not the bartering sort. :no:


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## coderguy (Jan 10, 2011)

6burgh said:


> 5 years Any updates? LOL


I can say that around the same time, I went with the Basement Systems approach. I paid more, and I'm currently ripping it all out to redo it the traditional way that he chose to go.

I'd love to hear an update as well.


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