# help me pick a primer



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Ben Moore Fresh Start 100% acrylic for almost everything, 1 coat ,drys in about an hour.You should always lightly sand glossy surfaces. Forget the oil.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

You really don't need to be priming painted walls before repainting them.

Normally, you only prime bare substrates, like bare wood, bare metal, bare plaster and bare drywall. You paint over paint.

What you should be doing in order to ensure good success is:

a) degloss your semi-gloss latex paints. You can do this by sanding them or cleaning them with a green 3M Scotchbrite pad (like they sell in grocery stores for scouring pots).

b) use a paint meant specifically for bathrooms in your bathroom. Such paints will use Plexiglas as the binder, which doesn't soften up or lose it's adhesion under wet conditions, and will also have a mildewcide in it to prevent mildew from growing on the paint.


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## jheavner (Sep 1, 2008)

The reason I'm priming is because I've had problems with paint bubbling and peeling. Initially I started with a latex paint (albeit cheap latex paint but it was a closet) and it peeled. I switched to Kilz latex at the recommendation of a couple of people and it peeled. I then used the Alkyd and it went on like a champ.

Our main floor was remodeled is all drywall and the previous owner believes it's latex but the paint seems very fragile. Painter's tape stuck to the wall is likely to remove paint when it comes off. My guess is the drywall either wasn't properly prepped or they used a poor quality paint. I believe the paint was either Behr or Ralph Lauren but I can see if I can find it. My thought was a good primer might somehow bind through this paint. Is that a bad assumption?

Our second floor is plaster, except for the remodeled bathroom, and I'm guessing there's oil paint somewhere under all those layers.

I want to do whatever it takes, within reason, to end up with with good walls. At the same time I would rather spend less money and not take unnecessary steps. If you think I don't need to prime but just paint then that's what I'll do.

As a point of reference, the Benjamin Moore contractor that gave us an estimate was going to sand all the walls, prime, skim coat, prime, and finally apply paint. I don't know if that's what absolutely needs to be done or if that's just a foolproof approach. The guy came highly recommended by several people.


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

1) You definitely have issues with you substrate (substrate is basically "the surface you are painting)
2) Though there could be debate about whether an acrylic will be OK, or whether another type of penetrating sealer (such as Zinsser's Gardz) would be a better choice, there really should be no debate that BM's Fresh Start Alkyd, though possibly over-kill for some areas, would be a good choice

If I were hired for the job, depending upon what I found by actually looking and testing, there's a good chance that's what I'd be using

I'm sure all the walls don't need it, but I don't care for surprises after I've started the project

Alkyd primers aren't a cure-all, and proper prep is still needed
But yes, they are a bit more penetrating than acrylics
Just as important, they use solvents as a base...so they won't "activate" any water-based coatings or leftover previous wallpaper adhesive or textures or anything


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## jheavner (Sep 1, 2008)

slickshift said:


> Alkyd, though possibly over-kill for some areas, would be a good choice
> 
> If I were hired for the job, depending upon what I found by actually looking and testing, there's a good chance that's what I'd be using
> 
> I'm sure all the walls don't need it, but I don't care for surprises after I've started the project


I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head. I'd rather go overkill than have to fix problems. Does the Guardz run at the same price point as the Ben Moore?


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

If your walls are going to bubble by applying paint, then they are more than likely gonna do it with the primer too. The bubbling is caused by the original paint not holding well and lifting off the wall when the top coat starts to shrink while it dries.


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## jheavner (Sep 1, 2008)

Matthewt1970 said:


> If your walls are going to bubble by applying paint, then they are more than likely gonna do it with the primer too. The bubbling is caused by the original paint not holding well and lifting off the wall when the top coat starts to shrink while it dries.


I understand that and I have resigned myself to doing spot fixes. What I don't want to do is sand every wall in my house, prime, skim, and prime again. My hope is that a good, soaking primer will result in less problem spots than just applying latex paint. If that's not really the case then I'll just paint and then repair the problems as they pop up.


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

jheavner said:


> Does the Guardz run at the same price point as the Ben Moore?


I'd say in a case like this, a few dollars a gallon are much less important than getting the proper product for the fix

But I can't answer your question, really
BM stores are independent dealers, and can charge whatever they want for product
Your local store could be $10 more than mine
The Gardz is typically only found at Paint Stores and Contractor Supply places (even though some Big Boxes carry Zinsser, they rarely carry Gardz) and those can vary hugely

Probably your local BM dealer will have both


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

Matthewt1970 said:


> If your walls are going to bubble by applying paint, then they are more than likely gonna do it with the primer too...


That's one of the reasons for using an alkyd or Gardz in this case
To keep the walls from bubbling


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## jheavner (Sep 1, 2008)

How long do I let the alkyd cure? Can I paint over in 24 hours or does it need more time? My understanding was that these primers take longer to dry than the normal latex primer.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

24 hours should be plenty of time. It will tell you on the can.


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## diyDiva40 (Sep 23, 2008)

*Primer suggestion??*

Glidden Interior/Exterior GRIPPER. I heard that it is the best. Haven't used it yet, but the people at Home Depot told me it is one of the best ones out there Who Knew????


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## jheavner (Sep 1, 2008)

diyDiva40 said:


> Glidden Interior/Exterior GRIPPER. I heard that it is the best. Haven't used it yet, but the people at Home Depot told me it is one of the best ones out there Who Knew????


You lost me the moment you said "Home Depot"...


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## sirwired (Jun 22, 2007)

Seriously, stay away from BigBoxCo for paint advice. BigBox is a nice place to get my brushes and roller sleeves, but I wouldn't touch their advice with a 10-foot pole.

Although, in all fairness, Gripper is a not-awful primer, and certainly about a million times better than the worse-than-useless Kilz2.

SirWired


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## dorothyolive (Sep 28, 2008)

I feel sorry for you! I'm in the process of actually peeling all the paint and Kilz 2 Latex primer off of all the walls and ceilings of my very recently painted very large home addition. The paint and primer (primed over plaster) are coming off in sheets. I thought it would "set" after some time but when my son caught some tape on the wall in his room a huge bubble appeared when he pulled the tape off of the wall. I'm using a flat razor knife and it is all coming off so easily, like peeling sunburn. I just slide the flat razor under the paint, then pull! This DIY chatroom has been a godsend. I just wish I had found it prior to painting in the first place. I feel removing the original paint and starting over and doing it properly leaves me with no feelings of impending doom. It's a lot of work but I'll be better off in the end. Good luck. I hope you have a successful outcome.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Although, in all fairness, Gripper is a not-awful primer, and certainly about a million times better than the worse-than-useless Kilz2.


True and it smells like new pair of sneakers( sort of):yes:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

chrisn said:


> True and it smells like new pair of sneakers( sort of):yes:


My ork sneakers smell like original KILZ


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

My ork sneakers smell like original KILZ 

Now that's just bad.:laughing:


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## Greg C (Jan 18, 2009)

Sorry if it is bad form to wake a dead post, but my question seems relevant to the post. 
I have a room that we have done major work on and the ceiling has the following characteristics.
1. Plaster from when the house was built, with all the paint scraped off.
2. Drywall to replace some damaged plaster
3. Joint compound from the drywall fix
4. Original paint on the plaster that would not scrape off.

With all the different surfaces, what primer should I use? Cost does not matter, as I would rather spend an extra 15-25 bucks to have the proper primer and not have to start all over in a couple years due to peeling paint!


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## dorothyolive (Sep 28, 2008)

Greg C said:


> Sorry if it is bad form to wake a dead post, but my question seems relevant to the post.
> I have a room that we have done major work on and the ceiling has the following characteristics.
> 1. Plaster from when the house was built, with all the paint scraped off.
> 2. Drywall to replace some damaged plaster
> ...


Hi Greg, I finally found the solution to my problem with a little help from from the professionals at the local "real" paint store (vs. big box store) It is called STIX made by Insl-x Superior Coating Systems, Insl-x Products Corp. Stony Point, New york 10980. Its a waterborne bonding primer urethane acrylic - interior/exterior. It can be topcoated with latex, oil, urethane, epoxy, or lacquer. it says it's "low odor" on the can but I highly recommend very good ventilation because I think I may have sacrificed more than a few brain cells while I applied it. It is a bit thin so be careful at first. Read the surface preparation section on the can before you leave the store to be sure you have everything you need. I am happy to report that just when I thought I was at the end of my roap, this product worked miracles. It had excellent adhesion and sealing. After the catastrophy that occurred here, I wouldn't want anyone else to go through the costly trial and error that I experienced. I hope this is helpful. Have FUN. 
DorothyOlive


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## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

Greg C said:


> Sorry if it is bad form to wake a dead post, but my question seems relevant to the post.
> I have a room that we have done major work on and the ceiling has the following characteristics.
> 1. Plaster from when the house was built, with all the paint scraped off.
> 2. Drywall to replace some damaged plaster
> ...


Sounds like you've done a good job on the prep, so no need to get carried away on the primer. Zinsser Bullseye 123 works fine on mixed surface applications like you describe.


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