# R50 Death Wobble 2003 Nissan Pathfinder



## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

How many miles on the truck ? At 16 years old the replacement of suspension pieces is to be expected . Sounds like you want to hang onto this one for a while so I would get it up on a lift or jackstands and do the best visual/physical inspection you can of all the suspension pieces . If it were me I'd bite the bullet and basically replace everything , get a good alignment and your good to go for many years .

How many O2 sensors on that model ? If it has sensors pre and post cat the ECM is looking for a difference between the two , that difference being supplied by the reaction of the platinum in the cat . If you " knock out " the platinum you have eliminated the item that reacts to the gasses in the exhaust . The extenders or cheaters place the tip of the sensor farther out of the exhaust stream and this sometimes is enough to " fool " the ECM . You may or may not get a check engine code . There are generic cat converters that are much cheaper than OEM that may be an option for you . 

Not sure how reliable anyone's prediction would be on how well or poorly your ECM will react with no cats . Some freak out while others seem to run great . Is your state/county an emission test requirement area ?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

The o2s in front of the cat monitors the engine. The o2s behind the cat just monitors the cats. Nothing else. I have put spacers on the rear o2s and no problems cept 1 vehicle. The light came back on so I put 2 spacers on there and it worked just fine.:vs_cool:


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

"Death Wobble" never heard the term but my old Pathfinder had it. I remember taking the mechanic out for a ride and if he had an ejection seat he would have bailed. If you don't hit the breaks to stop it, well I don't really know as i always chickened out but either throw you off the roan or self destruct.

I'm not an auto mechanic guy but they decided synthetic bushing were the best solution but even they had to send the parts out to have the bushings pressed on, not really a DIY.They worked. major issue I never fixed were the fuel injectors. Access was near impossible and price was more than I wanted to pay.

Nothing Nissan builds gets good mileage so after decades of Nissans I'm out. But had 2 Pathfinders and did love them.

Bud


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Poly bushings are one of the worst things you can do to your vehicle for ride quality.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Well, they sure cured the wobble. And my Pathfinder was never a Cadillac in the ride department.

Bud


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Porsche986S said:


> How many miles on the truck ? At 16 years old the replacement of suspension pieces is to be expected . Sounds like you want to hang onto this one for a while so I would get it up on a lift or jackstands and do the best visual/physical inspection you can of all the suspension pieces . If it were me I'd bite the bullet and basically replace everything , get a good alignment and your good to go for many years .
> 
> How many O2 sensors on that model ? If it has sensors pre and post cat the ECM is looking for a difference between the two , that difference being supplied by the reaction of the platinum in the cat . If you " knock out " the platinum you have eliminated the item that reacts to the gasses in the exhaust . The extenders or cheaters place the tip of the sensor farther out of the exhaust stream and this sometimes is enough to " fool " the ECM . You may or may not get a check engine code . There are generic cat converters that are much cheaper than OEM that may be an option for you .
> 
> Not sure how reliable anyone's prediction would be on how well or poorly your ECM will react with no cats . Some freak out while others seem to run great . Is your state/county an emission test requirement area ?


Porsche, you are right we plan to keep this one a long time. I plan to bring everything back to top operating condition, may take a while but that is my plan, Lord willing.

If the 02 sensors don't kick a code will the spacers be OK to use. I do plan to put new converters back on but I need to find what took the converters out in the first place and fix that first. I would hate to buy new converters and have them shot down the drain also.

I just read if the two front 02 sensors are not working it will make your engine run rich. IMHO that is why the cats are shot now or it is pumping oil (worn valve guides). Is there a way to work around this? 

huesmann, what kind would you suggest?I don't know what kind of bushings are in the stabilizer bars I just ordered.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

BigJim how many miles on the truck ? And what is telling you the cats are shot ? There is no harm using O2 spacers . If you think/know the cats are oil fouled you have bigger issues to solve . To know what's going on a compression check AND a leak down check will tell you a lot . Have you checked the ECM for any stored fault codes ?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Porsche986S said:


> BigJim how many miles on the truck ? And what is telling you the cats are shot ? There is no harm using O2 spacers . If you think/know the cats are oil fouled you have bigger issues to solve . To know what's going on a compression check AND a leak down check will tell you a lot . Have you checked the ECM for any stored fault codes ?


The truck has 194,000 on it. It is spitting the two codes P0430 and P0420. I know that is high milage but if I fix it back to top notch shape, I should get another 100,000, that will out last me at my age.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

BigJim read these 4 pages in the link , yes it's about Toyota's but their discussion is relevant to your vehicle .


https://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/230782-what-should-my-next-steps-p0430-p0420.html


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Porsche986S said:


> BigJim read these 4 pages in the link , yes it's about Toyota's but their discussion is relevant to your vehicle .
> 
> 
> https://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/230782-what-should-my-next-steps-p0430-p0420.html


Thanks Porsche I appreciate the information. I think I will got with gutting the cats with the spacers first and if no good I will just replace the cats and 02 sensors. I will let you know how it goes.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The rear stabilizers came in and I got under the Pathfinder today. I can not for the sake of me break the 19mm nuts loose. I tried for two hours to get just one broken loose so far nothing. I put a cheater bar on the breaker bar and used the floor jack on the cheater, it actually picked the car up and did not bust loose. I sprayed Deepcreep on the nut but the socket rounded the nut off so I got a pipe wench on the nut. The pipe wrench isn't slipping but even using the floor jack it will not come loose. Any suggestions? I am at the point I would swap my Unisaw for a Ingersoll Rand impact wrench. 

While typing this, I just pulled the trigger for a Ingersoll Rand W7150-K2 1/2-Inch impact wrench and cross my fingers that it does what it says it will do. 1120 ft lbs of torque.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Do you have access to oxy/acetylene torch or at the very least MAPP gas torch ? Just a heat cycle or two is sometimes enough to break them free . Keep hitting them with your penetrating oil or you can mix your own a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF . Mix only a small amount as the acetone evaporates fairly quickly , no biggie just add more if needed . Another trick is heat the nut/bolt and on the exposed threads rub parrafin wax it melts and is drawn into the threads acting as a lubricant . Hopefully your compressor is big enough to drive that impact gun . Good luck .


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

on old cars like that you need to heat about any bolts (propane torch isn't hot enough, i heated them with cutting torch kit), i had changed some suspension parts on an old 89 jimmy and heating bolts was the only options to loosen them


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Porsche986S said:


> Do you have access to oxy/acetylene torch or at the very least MAPP gas torch ? Just a heat cycle or two is sometimes enough to break them free . Keep hitting them with your penetrating oil or you can mix your own a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF . Mix only a small amount as the acetone evaporates fairly quickly , no biggie just add more if needed . Another trick is heat the nut/bolt and on the exposed threads rub parrafin wax it melts and is drawn into the threads acting as a lubricant . Hopefully your compressor is big enough to drive that impact gun . Good luck .


I didn't know about the acetone and ATF, I put DeepCreep made by Sea Foam on it. The craze part is there is zero rust on the underside of the truck at all. These bolts look new. Porsche, this is a battery powered impact wrench, check out youtube on these, they will take the crank bolt out of a honda which is probable one of the hardest things to break loose. It is supposed to bust loose a nut that has been torqued to 1120 ft lbs of torque, that is impressive.

I will give the heat a try if this impact don't break them loose. From what I see it will do the trick. I will need to buy some impact sockets as the 19mm socket I used yesterday busted.

I appreciate all your suggestions, thank you guys.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

A propane torch will work. Oxy acetylene is hot enough to burn the nut off the bolt, so it is much hotter than propane. Propane gets up to about 2400 degrees, MAPP about 2550. Oxy torch over 6000 degrees.

If you have propane torch, try it.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Bigplanz said:


> A propane torch will work. Oxy acetylene is hot enough to burn the nut off the bolt, so it is much hotter than propane. Propane gets up to about 2400 degrees, MAPP about 2550. Oxy torch over 6000 degrees.
> 
> If you have propane torch, try it.


I have some maps gas and torch. I sold my cutting torches, I sure wished a thousand times I hadn't. Thanks for the information.

I bought a set of metric impact sockets today, they are kinda proud of them things. lol


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

BigJim said:


> I have some maps gas and torch. I sold my cutting torches, I sure wished a thousand times I hadn't. Thanks for the information.
> 
> I bought a set of metric impact sockets today, they are kinda proud of them things. lol


Does an oxy torch get hotter than propane? Absotutely. An oxy torch with a rosebud tip will cut the U shackle off a leaf spring RIGHT NOW. If, however, you wish to heat a nut off enough to get it off a bolt with an oxy torch, you will not use a rosebud tip. You will use a welding tip, and turn the oxy down until you have a 4 inch flame with about an inch of blue. Heat it up, it will come off. 

Same with propane. Oxy is needed if you are blowing the nut off the bolt, or cutting something off.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Bigplanz said:


> A propane torch will work. Oxy acetylene is hot enough to burn the nut off the bolt, so it is much hotter than propane. Propane gets up to about 2400 degrees, MAPP about 2550. Oxy torch over 6000 degrees.
> 
> If you have propane torch, try it.


My temps were off, in the above post. Propane: 3600 degrees F. MAPP: 3740 degrees F. 

Plenty hot enough to break a rust bond on a nnut/bolt.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Bigplanz said:


> My temps were off, in the above post. Propane: 3600 degrees F. MAPP: 3740 degrees F.
> 
> Plenty hot enough to break a rust bond on a nnut/bolt.


Thanks BP, I appreciate it.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Well my Ingersoll Rand Battery powered impact wrench came in today. I didn't get to get to the stabilizer bars today, I was busy hanging doors. I did get out there just before dark and tried one of the bolts. I am not exaggerating at all. I hit the 19 mm nut and with in 3-5 seconds it broke the nut loose. I was totally surprised to say the least. That impact wrench is worth is' weight in...well you know. That sucker is one mean machine. lol

I haven't gotten to the catalytic converters yet, I still need to find a 14 mm flex head speed ratchet wrench.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I got to tell you, those trailing arms are a booger bear to get off. From this day forward, if I have to do another one, I will buy a really good nut buster and cut all the nuts off the bolts. Literally 1/2 the nuts I had to cut off, even using heat they would not budge with the 1150 ft lb impact wrench. I know I am old but 13 1/2 hours to change out the 4 trailing arms is unreal.

I tried out the truck after the arms were installed, no wobble in the least, feels like a new car, LOVE IT.

Now on to the two catalytic converters and sensors, then all new brakes.

I know it may sound stupid to put more money in an older car but we love this body style, we could have gotten a newer one but didn't want it. After we are finished, it will be in top notch mechanical working order and should last us for a few years yet.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: Drive what you like, We are too old to have to settle for something that we consider INFERIOR.

I drove an 86 Bronco II for 26 years, sure I put lots of money and my time into the mechanical parts that needed work.

I had to dump it after I was hit by a DITZ on the phone, and crumpled the entire door, and rear Quarter. 

Ditz in a new Mercedes ATV, yapping on the phone , not watching where She was going. 

Insurance says, " It's old, Ain't worth much.

So I had to get a much newer, used Explorer, almost twice the size of the Bronco II, but I like it now, and It's all mine, paid for, no payments to a bank. :wink2:

So I understand your desire to drive what you want.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I agree Ed, I buy what we like, not because someone else likes that model. I am at the age I could care less what other folks say or think. :smile:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> I agree Ed, I buy what we like, not because someone else likes that model. I am at the age I could care less what other folks say or think. :smile:


:thumbup::thumbup::clap::notworthy::notworthy:

That makes at least 2 of us here.:devil3:



ED


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