# Comfortmaker RPJ - 1 Flash - Nothing ON



## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

I would recomend putting on the bottom door shutting the power off at the disconet switch for 5 seconds and then restart furnace. Know I would watch what happens from there. report back:whistling2:


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

I have done that a number of times (5 seconds through 5 minutes). I have shut power down from the disconnect switch, as well as, from the breaker. I secure the lower panel and still nothing happens. The ignitor doesn't even start to warm.


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi oldgrandad

If this unit has a Honeywell Smart Valve it sounds like this could be your problem. If it does the only way to repair the problem is to change the gas valve. But to make this determination. I would like for you to first check all limits and make sure you don't have one open. If you could be a little more detailed I could nail it down for you.

Good luck
Rusty


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Does this furnace have a ventor motor.it may be locking out because it tries three times and then lockes out.I dont think rpj has a ventor.


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi trollmastergeneral

The Comfortmaker, Arcoaire, Heil, and Tempstars have used a inducer since the mid 80's. That about the time the government really cracked down on furnace efficency. And you could have just hit on the problem. It could be the pressure switch not making or could even be its not breaking the contacts.


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

I don't see a "Ventor Motor" on any of my documentation. I do see the "Induce Draft Blower" which is not operating. I see the shaft inside of the motor windings turn very slowly. I do see the "Supply Air Blower Motor" which operates when I put the Fan on ON instead of AUTO.


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

#CARRIERMAN said:


> Hi oldgrandad
> 
> If this unit has a Honeywell Smart Valve it sounds like this could be your problem. If it does the only way to repair the problem is to change the gas valve. But to make this determination. I would like for you to first check all limits and make sure you don't have one open. If you could be a little more detailed I could nail it down for you.
> 
> ...


I see no mention of Honeywell anywhere on the gas valve.

I believe there is only one limit. It is to ensure the bottom panel is closed. The switch is working as when the fan is ON, it turns OFF as soon as the limit switch is OPENed by removing the panel.

Are there other limits I should be looking for?


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

Upon reading more...the manual says

"When the 120V power source is energized, the control module will flash once, indicating the system is ready for operation." THIS IS MY SINGLE FLASH

I don't have any flashes after that.

The manual then says "On a call for heat, the thermostat contacts close, signaling the control module". When I changed the thermostat target point from below to above the current temperature, I hear the contacts close.

Then the manual says "The control module continuously performs a self check routine. If at any time the control senses a failure, internally or externally, the indicator light will respond using the following code...."

Internal failure - Steady Light
External failure - Flashing Light

I never see a steady light nor a flashing light.

Then the manual says "The control module will check for normally closed contacts on the high limit and normally open contacts on the pressure switch. The system will then energize the induced draft blower, and purge for 30 seconds."

I do not see the furnace do this.


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Induced draft blower and ventor motor mean the same thing. If this is turning very slow it probably has a bad motor or you may find something like a bird or squrial in the motor assembly.Already taken out 2 this year myself. Shut off the power to furnace and carefully touch the vent motor if it is" hot "I would pull motor off and check it.


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

trollmastergeneral said:


> Induced draft blower and ventor motor mean the same thing. If this is turning very slow it probably has a bad motor or you may find something like a bird or squrial in the motor assembly.Already taken out 2 this year myself. Shut off the power to furnace and carefully touch the vent motor if it is" hot "I would pull motor off and check it.


The motor is basement temperature. I was able to stop it from turning, but I had to turn the Fan/Blower OFF.


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

I think there is some confusion here so I will try to straightn this out.There is a blower in the bottom of the furnace, this can be turned on manualy at the thermostat if it is wired in.The exhaust motor,ventor motor,or induced draft motor are all the same thing.this motor turns on when there is a call for heat.The purpose of this motor is to exhaust the fumes from the furnace. does the induced draft motor on yours come on? You will probaly have to have the top door of furnace off.make sure bottom door is on because there is a safety switch on this one.


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

trollmastergeneral said:


> I think there is some confusion here so I will try to straightn this out.There is a blower in the bottom of the furnace, this can be turned on manualy at the thermostat if it is wired in.The exhaust motor,ventor motor,or induced draft motor are all the same thing.this motor turns on when there is a call for heat.The purpose of this motor is to exhaust the fumes from the furnace. does the induced draft motor on yours come on? You will probaly have to have the top door of furnace off.make sure bottom door is on because there is a safety switch on this one.


The induced draft motor does not come on. 

I did notice it was turning very slowly. The induced draft motor turns slowly when the blower is manually turned ON at the thermostat. Otherwise it does not turn at all.

The bottom door is on securely fully pressing the lock out switch. The blower will not turn if the lock out is not pressed. The blower will manually turn ON, so I assume the lock out is pressed.

Thank you for your responses and help


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

If the induced draft motor does not spin up to speed the presure switch will not make allowing furnace to light can you check for voltage at the motor leads when there is a call for heat.


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi oldgranddad

Trollmaster just hit the nail on the head. You have a bad inducer assy. If this motor does not come up to speed it will not make the pressure switch and will not allow the burners to come on. Some of them had oil ports on them, if your lucky you might be able to oil it and get through the night. Trollmaster good job.

Rusty


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

The motor is a sealed bearing and has "permenant lubrication". So there is nothing to oil.

I can't get to the hot and neutral at the motor with my leads. I am unable to pull the motor tonight as it seems to take a socket between the ones I have.

I traced the wires from the motor to the controller. I disconnected the wires and monitored the pins from the controller. All I get across the pins are 0.2 VAC. I monitored while my wife changed the set points for me ON and OFF. It stayed pegged at 0.2VAC.

Is there another way to measure the voltage that is easier? 

My concern is that you guys suspect the induce draft motor, but I don't seem to have any output from the controller. But, if there was something wrong with the controller internally, I should see a solid light according to the manual. 

Since the motor is not turning and therefore not changing the pressure enough for the pressure switch, I should see 2 flashes for stuck open or 3 flashes for stuck closed according to the manual. But I don't. Would this point to the controller too?

Once again thanks for the help


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Make sure that the safety switch on the bottom door is closed while testing. .If you have 24 volts from w to c on your control board,i would then see if you have power to the two leads going to the ventor motor.make sure the thermostat is calling for heat while doing test


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

I had the safety switch closed. I traced the wires back to IND and IND N. Across these wires I have no voltage at the pins of the controller when heat is called for.

What is W and C? I don't see anything like that on my controller. I do see W and RC on my thermostat, but I wouldn't know how to get the voltage without taking the thermostat off.


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

Well I would cut the wires up by the ventor and see what voltage you get when you start the furnace if it is 120v then suspect the motor


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

Ok, I pierced the wires with my leads and ensured they would stay. I put the lower panel back on to ensure the lock out switch was held in. I turned the electrical disconnect ON. I went to the thermostat and selected a temperature below room temperature. I heard the thermostat click. I selected a temperature above room temperature and went to the basement. There was no voltage across the wires going to the induce draft motor.


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi olgrandad

It sounds like you have a meter. If your meter will read ohms. Shut the power off to the furnace and start locating the limits. Remove one wire off of each limit and see which one is open. I should have read the post a little better. If you dont have a limit open check on your board from R to C for 24 volts and make sure you don't have a bad transformer. For some reason your furnace has lost its low voltage. Should be pretty easy to find and repair. Let us know what you find so we can help you through it.

Rusty


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## acefurnacefixer (Nov 24, 2006)

olgranddad said:


> Ok, I pierced the wires with my leads and ensured they would stay. I put the lower panel back on to ensure the lock out switch was held in. I turned the electrical disconnect ON. I went to the thermostat and selected a temperature below room temperature. I heard the thermostat click. I selected a temperature above room temperature and went to the basement. There was no voltage across the wires going to the induce draft motor.


 
There you go...great work my friend, your circut board is not telling your inducer to run. Replace the main board then you will have warm toes again!


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## trollmastergeneral (Dec 19, 2006)

acefurnacefixer said:


> There you go...great work my friend, your circut board is not telling your inducer to run. Replace the main board then you will have warm toes again!


 
wow I would think that verifing the thermostat and wiring are calling for heat first would be important.I personaly would not just run out and buy a circuit board untill I was sure.:whistling2:


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## acefurnacefixer (Nov 24, 2006)

He already said he can hear the relays clicking...........You have to read the post before you reply to them.......but you bring up a valid point, so check for voltage at W and C on the board............should be 24 vac there if the stat is set to heat and its calling.


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

My voltage readings are as follows:

W to C 0V when calling for heat
R to C 26V when calling for heat
110V to 24V on the transformer

Out of curiosity C is common, what are R and W?


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi olgranddad

C is common, R is 24 volts power, W is heat call. If you jumper R to W inside the furnace and push the safety switch in, the furnace should fire up. Just because you hear a relay click in a thermostat does not mean the thermostat is good or that it is sending a signal to the furnace. Do the jumper and let us know what happens if you havent already fixed the problem.

Rusty


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

#CARRIERMAN said:


> Hi olgranddad
> 
> C is common, R is 24 volts power, W is heat call. If you jumper R to W inside the furnace and push the safety switch in, the furnace should fire up. Just because you hear a relay click in a thermostat does not mean the thermostat is good or that it is sending a signal to the furnace. Do the jumper and let us know what happens if you havent already fixed the problem.
> 
> Rusty


FANTASTIC!!! I jumped R to W and pushed the "lock out" in and the furnance fired right up. I am going to let the house heat up a bit before I disconnect and go to bed. 

At this point should I assume that my thermostat is not working properly? Because the furnace control module is operating properly as long as I have the call for heat (W) hard wired to R (24 volts).


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi olgranddad

To verify it is the thermostat and not a mouse chewed wire. Put your furnace back the way it was and install the jumper wire at the thermostat on the R and W terminals. If the furnace fires up and runs, go get you a White Rodgers 1F80-361 if you want a programmable and a 1F86-344 if you dont. It sure is a lot easier to help you guys when I don't have someone saying that I am wrong all the time. Let me know if you need me any further.

Good luck 
Rusty


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## olgranddad (Jan 1, 2007)

I pulled the jumper on the furnace controller. I jumped R and W at the thermostat. The furnace fired up and runs great. 

I have an old mercury switch thermostat from 4 years ago. The one that I replaced with the programmable. I'm going to wire that in for now and pick up a new programmable in the next few days.

I would like to thank all of you who took an interest in my problem and helped me out.

Jon


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi olgranddad

I am sure I speak for all of us that gave you the needed information. That is what we are here for, and Happy New Year.

Rusty


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