# Tree removal with pulleys and rope



## dalepres (Mar 20, 2011)

I've got a small hickory tree (6 or 7 inch diameter) that leans over the house and died over the winter. I need to pull it away to cut or possibly just pull it out of the ground.

I have a couple of 16 to 18 inch oak trees about 40 feet away that will be excellent anchors for pulling against. My plan is to build a 12:1 or possibly 16:1 simple pulley system and pull the tree backwards and in between those two anchor trees.

I say plan because it will cost a lot more than I'm willing to spend if I have to buy arborist grade pulleys but there are a lot of 30kN-break-point climbing pulleys to be had for 35 dollars each. I can get double pulleys, I'd need about 8 of those or about 260 dollars in pulleys, or I could buy 16 of the arborist pulleys at 200 dollars each - not worth it. 

Has anyone got experience in this? Any reason I couldn't use the climbing/rescue pulleys to do the job?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

An experienced arborist could probably just cut it down safely, cheaper.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

With that pulley ratio in your plan how do you plan to keep the rope taut as the tree begins to fall?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Post a picture so we can see what your seeing.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

My first thought was, what would happen if the ropes broke or the tree snapped at a midpoint, would it slap the house? A quick search and it indicated a Hickory tree will have a deep tap root. Pulling one like that out of the ground would not be easy.

A rope or two to pull and direct that tree when cut would be simple and as SS said you will want a couple of people on those ropes to keep the tension as the tree falls. Then a 7" diameter tree stump is on the small side and can be dug out by hand. I've dug out several trees with tap roots that looked like telephone poles (yours will not be that big) but the holes around the tree had to be large enough for me to wash off the tap root and then use a chain saw to cut it off. With a tree your size a reciprocating saw and a few long nasty looking long blades would do just fine.

Bud


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Building a 16:1 pulley system will be ineffective simply because of the lost effort due to the pulley's resistance. 
The power lost each time the rope goes through a pulley reduces the system's effectiveness by a percentage. 
You might be better served by using a compound system. ie: use a 3:1 pulling on a 5:1

Also, the diameter of those small pulleys will affect the rope's strength. 

Are you trying to pull it over in one piece or bring it down in sections?


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> I've got a small hickory tree (6 or 7 inch diameter) that leans over the house and died over the winter. I need to pull it away to cut or possibly just pull it out of the ground.


Ayuh,.... Figure out how to get a rope, say 1/2" or bigger, 100' long or so, tied into the tree, as _High_ as possible,....

With yer chainsaw, cut yer fellin' relief cut, 'bout 1/2 way through the tree, facin' squarely in the direction ya want the tree to fall,....

Tie the tag end of the line to a pickup, 'n the driver will take a Slight to medium pressure against the tree,....

Make yer back-cut, til the tree tells ya it gives up, then get the 'ell outa there,....
If the tree pinches the bar, the driver ain't pullin' hard enough,...
As yer doin' that, the driver will continue to apply slight to medium pressure with the rope,...
Once gravity takes over, he's just gotta clear the ends of the branches,....


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... Figure out how to get a rope, say 1/2" or bigger, 100' long or so, tied into the tree, as _High_ as possible,....
> 
> With yer chainsaw, cut yer fellin' relief cut, 'bout 1/2 way through the tree, facin' squarely in the direction ya want the tree to fall,....
> 
> ...


That's exactly how we took this dead oak leaner out and the well house / storage still looks good.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Without seeing a pic, my only comment would be bring in a cutter, tell him to put it on the ground and you'll clean it up from there.
Probably cost less then what you were going to spend on pulleys and rope.


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## dalepres (Mar 20, 2011)

Yodaman said:


> Without seeing a pic, my only comment would be bring in a cutter, tell him to put it on the ground and you'll clean it up from there.
> Probably cost less then what you were going to spend on pulleys and rope.


I'll try to get some pictures. This is at the lake house so I have to get there to do it. But remember, we're on a DIY site. The great thing about DIY is that the work gets done and my shed gets more tools instead of the work gets done and someone else's shed getting more tools. :biggrin2: I'm going to retire in a few years and when I do I want as many tools as I can get while I'm making money so I don't have to when I'm just spending money.

I'm pretty sure that I just need to pull the tree a bit and cut it as jlhaslip suggests. My tree is much smaller and the top is smaller even more than proportional to Senior Citizen's picture, and my tree doesn't lean any more than his. I should have done this a few years ago when the tree was small.

I will use my truck to pull it but I'll have to rig a couple extra pulleys because the truck can't get to where pull comes out but I can pull it around.

One reason for the high ratio rigging is to keep the stress on the pulleys to a minimum but the pulleys all have a rating high enough to withstand the pull directly.

I really do appreciate all the helpful advice and I will be considering all of it and taking much of it. Still, the big question is whether it is safe to use the inexpensive pulleys for this job. My inclination is yes - with the only worry being the loss of gain by adding in the friction as jlhaslip mentioned. The 1.25 inch wheels instead of a 3 or 4 inch wheel will be a much stiffer pull but I'll buy a good, core-dependent, polyester rope - who doesn't need a 600 foot spool of high-quality rope in their garage?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Most of my tree cutting has just involved cutting them and dropping them right where I want. But when there are houses and worse a tree is already leaning in the wrong direction I set up a pull rope (or two if I have help). Tips:
1. I use a throwing weight to get my tie point as high as needed. Often I cannot tie a knot 20' up so I allow the throwing weight to come all the way back to the ground where I tie the rope to the trunk of the tree. Trick is, that rope needs to be over a fork or a branch where it will not slip.
2. With a person on the pulling end of the rope, maybe in addition to the truck on its own rope, when the tree decides to go somewhere I don't what it, the person can scurry side to side to direct the tree. I've had the hinge we try to create snap and the tree wanted to go sideways, not good but the pulling rope saved us.

Tools, definitely good to have. 

Bud


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Find a rope with a good stretch factor. 
Climbing rope is around 20 per cent stretch factor and works great for this application.
Less than that would work as well.
About a buck a foot $CDN, so around $0.75 USD


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> I will use my truck to pull it but I'll have to rig a couple extra pulleys because the truck can't get to where pull comes out but I can pull it around.


Ayuh,... It would be Best if you can do this with 1 pulley, strapped to the tree ya want the cut tree to fall towards,...

I have a couple of pulleys like this, that I use with my portable winch,...
Strap it to the anchor tree, down low, then to the truck to pull with,...

To many pulleys, 'n the truck will have to travel to far to keep up with the pull necessary,...


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Seems like I have had the good fortune over the years to generally have enough lean in the tree and leeway on the ground to be able to simply cut down trees conventionally, no ropes. But there are times when ropes become necessary. I had one the year before last that was destined to fall across a pretty busy paved road that I tied off to my pickup and one last year that could have fallen toward the house that I tied to the tractor. I had long ropes on both of them, as high up as I could and still have enough meat so that the trunk wouldn't snap off, had the truck and the tractor well out of harms way, and tensioned them before I started cutting. Both times got them notched the way I wanted, did the back cut, and over they went, exactly as planned. And I chalked them both up to sheer luck. But a dead tree over the house, I agree with hiring someone who knows what they are doing, at least to put it on the ground, and you can take it from there. Dead trees break easier than live ones, so how high do you go to get a handle on it without getting so high that the trunk snaps off at the least opportune time? And that 16:1 or whatever ratio to pull on it provides a lot of pulling energy, put it is going to be slow to respond when you want a bit more tension, because to get 1 foot of movement you are going to have to pull 16' of rope. Definitely sounds like a job for the experts.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Your call. It would likely be a few hundred bucks to have the tree taken down and debris removed. Is saving that amount worth the risk that something could go wrong and your house suffer damage as a result?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I've had similar isues... *and it depends on specific logistics*( anchors available, degree of lean, fall points, fall zone, size of tree..etc.) 

I have a big reduction (can't recall exact reduction) chain hoist from harbor freight for maybe $60 and use cable and chains if I can get enough tention to be sure of my fall out of the tree. 

If that static tention will not create a sure fall.... then I tie off high in the tree with long rope guides and either use a car/truck to pull as I back cut or several men to guide the fall as I slowly make and adjust the back cut.



If logistics allow neither, then I buy the tree monkeys..... sometimes DIY involves knowing what is DIY.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Since you've never fallen a tree before, it's important to record the entire event. Make sure to say "Hold my BEER!" real loud so the cameraman can hear it :wink2:

Seriously though, cutting a tree down isn't terribly hard if you know what you're doing. Not to be mean, but I am not 100% sure this is the case here. :smile:


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> Seriously though, cutting a tree down isn't terribly hard if you know what you're doing. Not to be mean, but I am not 100% sure this is the case here.


There is definitely a skill set involved. I would definitely think twice if this is the first tree you've taken down.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

STICK and NICK... Do have a good point.

It is pretty simple if you have some experience in your back cutting and have the "feel"...... but if you have not done before...and the fall is dangerous... maybe get someone with some experience.

Depending on their limbs/canopy and slants.... they can twist funny and not consistant with your notch and back cut.....

The pro's usually don't even need the guide ropeing.... as an amateur with limited experience, I need to have those guides TO BE SURE.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Anytime there is something at risk that I don't want to hit I like guide ropes. In the woods, let'em fall. 

One detail that isn't obvious is the purpose of the notch and back cut. Done right they create a hinge that controls the direction of the fall. In most cases I like the back cut to be slightly above the notch. But cut too far and that hinge disappears and the tree then falls where gravity wants to put it and that is when those guide ropes go to work. In your case the tree is leaning the wrong way so definitely need ropes to pull it over to where gravity can do the rest.

Bud


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Small point as a reminder.

Make sure the pulling point is farther away than the tree is tall, if you know what I mean.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> One detail that isn't obvious is the purpose of the notch and back cut. Done right they create a hinge that controls the direction of the fall. * In most cases I like the back cut to be slightly above the notch.* But cut too far and that hinge disappears and the tree then falls where gravity wants to put it


Ayuh,.... I completely agree,.... *But*,......

If ya make the back-cut to high, the tree can do what's called a Barber's Chair,...
Not pretty, 'n _Extremely_ dangerous to the feller,....
Google it for images,....
This can also happen when to much pressure is put on the pullin'/ guide lines attached up in the tree,...

The face cut/ steering cut is the most important cut, 'n should go 'bout 1/2 the way through the tree,...


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## dalepres (Mar 20, 2011)

NickTheGreat said:


> Since you've never fallen a tree before, it's important to record the entire event. Make sure to say "Hold my BEER!" real loud so the cameraman can hear it :wink2:
> 
> Seriously though, cutting a tree down isn't terribly hard if you know what you're doing. Not to be mean, but I am not 100% sure this is the case here. :smile:


I've actually felled many trees - not enough to call myself anywhere near an expert but at least a couple dozen. I've been lucky and everyone has fallen exactly as planned - lots of research before doing any such work but I know that there's still luck because things could go wrong.

This is just the first time I've had a leaner to drop against the lean rather than with the lean.

I still haven't decided on a path forward.


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## dalepres (Mar 20, 2011)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... I completely agree,.... *But*,......
> 
> If ya make the back-cut to high, the tree can do what's called a Barber's Chair,...
> Not pretty, 'n _Extremely_ dangerous to the feller,....
> ...


Interesting pictures on that. And the risk could be very dangerous if I'm on a ladder and it happens quickly. But if I cut 10 feet up then the chair misses the house.

One thing I know from years of reading on tree felling is that I don't have to pull it far if I am going to cut; I only want to change the center of gravity and it doesn't take much to do that.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> And the risk could be very dangerous *if I'm on a ladder*


Ayuh,..... If yer standin' on a ladder with a chainsaw in yer hand,....

You've already broken the 1st Commandment of tree fellin',.....

Ladders have _*No*_ place in tree work,......


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,..... If yer standin' on a ladder with a chainsaw in yer hand,....
> 
> You've already broken the 1st Commandment of tree fellin',.....
> 
> Ladders have _*No*_ place in tree work,......


Yes^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BONDO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Always..... and especially with helpers...... make sure everyone has, and knows, an escape route. (Property you can replace)

When a ladder is involved.... there is usually no escape route.


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## dalepres (Mar 20, 2011)

Thought I'd get back to report results of my tree-dropping plan. I finally got it done last week. My son-in-law came to help so I got it done. It mostly went perfectly. I had to change the rigging a couple times as I figured out stupid beginner mistakes - all before we put any pull on the lines - but once started, we pulled the tree beyond straight until it leaned to the other direction. First, we cut the face cut before putting pressure on it. Once we had it pulled beyond straight we could have kept pulling to see if we could pull it out from the roots but we decided to just do the back cut and let it drop. Unfortunately, I didn't have a video operator so I didn't get to make a video of it.

We had identified a tree that the one I was pulling was going to bounce off of the outer limbs, made adjustments in our escape plans, etc. The operation went exactly as we predicted. The tree started exactly between the two anchor trees we had used and hit those limbs of the one that was partially blocking the path. That turned it just a bit and it hit the ground exactly where we had hoped.

I will say that this tree was about 8 inches in diameter. if it were much larger it might be a different story so I'm not saying anyone or everyone should try pulling leaners but my leaner went down without a hitch. The climbing gear I used to pull with worked fine in my case. Again, not saying anyone else should use climbing gear for rigging a tree pull; it just worked for me.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Nice job, thanks for the update.


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