# help! strange horizontal bubbles on new roof



## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Last September, I had my roof re-done after some hail damage. Besides the hail scars, the original roof looked normal from the ground. I basically had it replaced b\c my insurance said that it needed to be replaced.

The roofer is a local guy with a good reputation and a is long standing BBB member with a clean record. I genuinely believe he's as confused/upset about what's happened since as I am, but I'm hoping to get some objective opinions from you guys nonetheless. I fear this could turn ugly if somebody has to reach for their wallet.

His crew removed the original, checked the decking, removed the ~5 year old 3-tab shingles (original roof on a ~5 yr old house) and put down 30lb Owens Corning Fiberglass reinforced felt (I have a fairly steep [8/12 pitch] roof) and then 25 year Owens Corning 3-tab Supreme Shingles. They did not remove the original felt, though from what I gather that's pretty rare around here. All the original vents were replaced with new ones of the same type/size.

Anyhow, not long after the job was done my wife started complaining that it looked kind of sloppy. The roofer had warned me that we had a couple of high rafters, so I waved her off, thinking that it was more of a framing issue than a roofing issue. In hindsight though, I think I was struggling to admit that I might have a larger problem that needed to be dealt with.

Eventually, I started to realize there were alot of horizontal bubbles in the roof (conspicuously at regular intervals), in addition to a couple of vertical issues that I suppose could be due to high rafters.

Here's a picture:








(I'll get some more tmrw without the sun blazing in your eyes). This is the North facing side of the house which exhibits the problem most prominently, though it's also happening else where. It just happens that this is the side of my roof most visible from the street as well because of where we sit on a curve. 

I went ahead and sent this photo to my roofer to see what he thought. At first he just acknowledged that it looked unusual and wondered if I'd been having any foundation issues. Then he asked if I'd modified the insulation or ventilation in any way. The answer to both questions was no. 

He then came by the house and I even took him into the attic to show him that my soffit baffles were unobstructed and my plywood decking was not buckled and had the proper clips, etc. We walked around the interior so I could show him that there weren't any cracks or signs of foundation issues. I could tell he was starting to worry as well.

Anyhow, he then contacted his materials distributor and Owens Corning and had them take a look at the photos. They also suggested potential issues with ventilation being insufficient/becoming obstructed and foundation issues. Ultimately, some folks from OC came out to my house with the roofer and took more photos and even walked around on the roof. 

According to my roofer, the bubbles are literally just that. When you press on them, the shingles flatten down. There is no decking pushing up on the shingles, just air. Even the high rafter theory is strange for the vertical defects because usually aren't those smoother? I mean if a high rafter is pushing up decking and that's pushing up the shingles, you'd expect a smooth hump, not a jagged ridge. My roofer is still totally puzzled, but he says the OC folks are going to run it by one of their experts in Ohio. I have no idea where that will go (or when)

So, has anyone ever seen this before? Any solid theories on what's going on or questions I can answer to help solve the mystery? I'm not planning to be in this house for much longer, so I really want to get this solved before I find myself trying to sell a home with a butt ugly and potentially physically defective roof.

The only thing that really changed from the original roof to the new roof (besides the roofers) is that the new roof went on top of the old felt (likely 15lb since it was a builder's roof) with the new 30lb felt on top of that. I'm wondering if that doubled moisture barrier has now become "too effective" at sealing air flow as well. Is it possible that the felt is blowing up along the decking seams like a balloon? What scares me is that this roof hasn't even seen a hot Texas summer yet. Does anyone think it will get better with the heat?

I'd appreciate any help you can give me! Thanks in advance.

-BC


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I see no way it would be the doubled up felt.
I would have taken some of those shingles off and cut back the tar paper over the raised areas and look at the sheathing to see what it's doing to cause this.
Looks like the lines are following the seams in the sheathing.
I've seen many older houses with no ventalation and there not doing this.
It's nothing to do with a high rafter or the house moving.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

I wonder of the expansion clips were left out when the sheathing was done.


Did a Google search and wouldn't you know one of the top hits was DIY Chatroom Thread:laughing:


Looks like the bumps are about 45" apart which would suggest the plywood vs the felt (36"?).


*Woops! Re-read your OP. Looks like the edge clips are installed*


Still think its a sheathing issue though. Searching now for Interior vs Exterior Grade OSB. Interior Grade edges absorbing humidity and swelling?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Read this one---it covers every possible cause of your problem--Wavy Roof! Need Opinions/advice - Roofing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I bet this one will be blamed on OSB too........... Oh wait, this one is plywood, and he also said the bumps can be pushed down by hand........


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

dfwnewroof said:


> The only thing that really changed from the original roof to the new roof (besides the roofers) is that the new roof went on top of the old felt (likely 15lb since it was a builder's roof) with the new 30lb felt on top of that. I'm wondering if that doubled moisture barrier has now become "too effective" at sealing air flow as well. Is it possible that the felt is blowing up along the decking seams like a balloon? What scares me is that this roof hasn't even seen a hot Texas summer yet. Does anyone think it will get better with the heat?
> 
> I'd appreciate any help you can give me! Thanks in advance.
> 
> -BC



You are on the right track here. :thumbsup:


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*I don't think it's the plywood...*

Thanks all. I actually read the 200+ posts in that Wavy thread before starting this one. Since I've got plywood (not OSB) with expansion clips, and the bubbles push down by hand, I don't think it's the decking/sheathing this time.

I suspect the reason the bubbles are so regularly spaced with the outline of the plywood is that this is where air is forcing through the gaps in the boards and pressing the felt upwards.

MJW, so you agree that there's too much felt and it's creating a pressure issue? I didn't have any of this on the original roof, so could extra felt actually induce a ventilation issue?

Should I be adding soffit vents or talking to the roofer/Owens Corning about the materials used for the job? Should I have expected them to remove the 15lb felt during the tear off and is it commonly known that there are times when too heavy a grade of a felt is bad thing?

Any suggestions for how to resolve, without requiring a re-roof?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I think it has something to do with the 30 lb paper. It doesn't breathe like 15 lb.

Besides that point, I believe the real problem is too much moisture and/or heat in the attic....and it is because of the lack of ventilation and/or insulation. Actually it could be a whole list of problems. You just need to find out why there is so much heat and humidity up there.

I know that sounds like a broken record. Everyone blames everything on insulation and ventilation.....but these types of problems are showing themselves more and more. Most of it has to do with the more strict energy codes nowadays, JMO.


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

MJW said:


> I think it has something to do with the 30 lb paper. It doesn't breathe like 15 lb.
> 
> Besides that point, I believe the real problem is too much moisture and/or heat in the attic....and it is because of the lack of ventilation and/or insulation. Actually it could be a whole list of problems. You just need to find out why there is so much heat and humidity up there.
> 
> I know that sounds like a broken record. Everyone blames everything on insulation and ventilation.....but these types of problems are showing themselves more and more. Most of it has to do with the more strict energy codes nowadays, JMO.


I agree. I also believe that under certain conditions, humid air is drawn in through soffit vents and condenses on the bottom of the sheathing before it reaches the upper exhaust. It's just a theory, but I think it can happen under the right conditions, such as after a warm winter day, when the roof deck cools on the exterior before it cools in the ventilation space.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

loneframer said:


> I agree. I also believe that under certain conditions, humid air is drawn in through soffit vents and condenses on the bottom of the sheathing before it reaches the upper exhaust. It's just a theory, but I think it can happen under the right conditions, such as after a warm winter day, when the roof deck cools on the exterior before it cools in the ventilation space.


You posted about that in another thread about ice dams. It made a lot of sense. Look at the pic, this one is brick also.... :thumbsup:

Usually when you see condensation in the attic, it's on the north side, and that's what it's showing.

Wonder what the south side of the house looks like.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*south side of the house*

My neighbor's two story is right next to us on the South Side, so it's hard to get a good vantage point. Nonetheless, I got up on the fence and snapped these shots of the south side. I can definitely see some bubbles, though the vertical ones are most apparent because of my angle. In general it doesn't appear to be as prevalent on this side.

If it's a heat/humidity thing, are you saying that the condensation is causing the decking to move OR are you just saying that as the roof heats up again, that moisture is converted into vapor which makes bubbles?

It appears I can get a thermometer/hygrometer combo for not too much expense. If I had one though, what would I be looking to prove? That the attic humidity and temp is significantly higher than the outdoor readings as the temperature starts to drop around sundown?

If I do find that I've got alot more heat/humidity in the attic, would I then need to add insulation to keep the house from warming the attic so much? Or should I be looking for more ways to get the air flow from the soffit vents to the vents on the ridge?


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

Your problem is the felt. I have seen this when felt has not dried after being wet, either when placed on the roof or even before.
Most roofers know enough to use a knife when installing to slit the felt paper to help it flatten out.

Most likely, in my experience it will flatten out over the next two years.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*The felt *

Thanks. I do recall that we had a light shower (the first in months, actually -we had a terrible drought last summer) the morning of the tear-off. The felt was just sitting in my driveway on the roll at that time. I figured that might affect the exposed layer, but not the whole roll. I actually asked the roofer about it that day and he said it was fine. How do you explain that the bubbles seem to occur right on the seams of the decking though?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You have a pressurized attic with air trying to escape anywhere it can. The power vents are contributing to the problem, read page 3 especially; http://www.wag-aic.org/1999/WAG_99_baker.pdf 

The attic floor needs air sealing to stop the basement/crawl air from helping the problem. Power vents can cause problems; http://www.advancedenergy.org/build...entilation/Attic Ventilation Case Studies.pdf

Notice fig. 5 on fan pressure: http://www.wbdg.org/resources/airbarriers.php

The roof papers could be wetting from the brick air space moisture driven to the roof space- not blocked, especially after a rain on the south side; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0104-solar-driven-moisture-in-brick-veneer

I'd want to check the south walls after not using the power fans a few weeks. Course, it could be either one or just the attic air sealing lacking....

Gary


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

I don't have any power vents and my home is only 6 years old. Do you really think that paper is relevant to my situation? 

I have soffit vents along the overhangs on the north and south sides which are baffled in the attic to prevent the loose insulation from obstructing them. Then I have a variety of roof vents near the ridge (turtle and box vents).

To be clear, are you saying that I never had sufficient ventilation and the addition of the 30lb felt was the tipping point?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Sorry, I thought the large vents were powered. 

You have excessive moisture *or* excessive air pressure in the attic space forcing the builders paper up because of the gap between sheathing at the joints.

Is the HVAC system in the attic space, or the supply ducts?

A leaking duct could pressurize the attic or leaking plumbing holes from the crawlspace, especially if the exhaust vents are inadequate. Check your exhaust/intake NFVA: http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/intakeSoffit-specs.shtml

One layer of felt/paper is 5-30 perms, depending on the moisture present. Two layers is 1/2 as much, still not a vapor retarder that would figure in the equation. (Unless something I may be missing- good possibility).
Any insulation changes or HVAC usages since the problem began?

Gary


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

I think I'm going to invest in a hygrometer to see about the moisture hypothesis. If I find that the attic humidity is mostly similar to the outdoors, would that rule that out?

The HVAC unit and a web of duct work is all in the attic. I had an AC guy out last summer to do a "check up" on my system but besides trying to sell me a condenser cleaning outside, he didn't find any issues. 

I did notice last summer that on really hot days the AC struggled to maintain the temp set on the thermostat (74, but it was over 100 here for basically 3 months straight last summer). I suppose I could have a leaking duct.

No changes in insulation. I just have alot of that fuzzy pink stuff everywhere. The depth rulers seem to indicate that I haven't had any extreme settling or anything.

Would I call an AC guy to check into the leaking duct hypothesis? Or is there an easy for me to do it myself? (Do I just climb around the attic scouring all the ducts?) 

Meanwhile, I'll run the numbers on my ridge to intake and see where that goes.

Thanks.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

If I'm doing the math right, we might be onto something.

Ok, so I have 10 8"x18" "undereave vents". 7 on the north side and 3 on the south side. According to that website, each one provides 56 square inches of net free area (I'm assuming mine aren't from that manufacturer, but are probably similar). That gives me 560 sq inches of net free area.

My home is about 2100 sq ft, and my attic spans all of it so I'm assuming I have 2100 sq ft of attic floor (maybe more for the garage?) Using the 1/300 rule, I need a minimum of 7 sq ft of net free area, right?

1 sq foot = 144 sq inches, so I need a minimum of 1008 sq inches of net free area?

If I use the more strict 1/150 rule (which apparently is more common for newer/tighter homes), then I'd actually need ~2000 sq inches of net free area.

I guess I'm supposed to then split the intake/exhaust 60/40? So I'd need somewhere between 600 and 1200 sq inches of net free area for intake and 400 to 800 sq inches of net free area for exhaust?

I have 5 large round vents and one slant back, which I estimate to provide about 700-800 sq inches of net free area using the values provided on the airvent.com site for similar materials). So that seems pretty good.

So the question is, am I significantly under ventilated for intake? Should a 6 year old home definitely be held to the 1/150 rule?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Use the 150 rule if no plastic vapor barrier in the attic above the ceiling drywall below. (Under the insulation).

Your intakes are lacking. 7 sq.ft of intake required, you have less than 4. I usually figure 18 sq.in. of ridge vent per foot that covers both sides of the house--- 9 sq.in. per ft. of soffit run. Anything less- as spaced out rectangular vents = 56" should vent 6' of soffit. But, soffit should vent every rafter bay or on will get the majority of the airflow, the rest get little. Continuous soffit ventinting is ideal, located as close as possible to the fascia board for best air pressure and draw. The wind follows the house, up the wall and around the top the wall, and somewhat back into itself - creating turbulence/negative pressure close to the house wall. You want the positive pressure, pp.616: http://books.google.com/books?id=Z8...page&q=attic airflow with gable vents&f=false

You could have a pressure test of the HVAC done to eliminate any doubt it may be the problem, though with it on- you should be able to see any insulation holes or gaps at any leak unless hidden from view. Since none of the things I said have much bearing, I feel the problem could be the lack of ventilation with the added moisture from :house below, HVAC, or ? - has wet the felts from the inside causing them to swell. All the bath fans exit outside.... Add the soffit vents to minimum code and watch....... Sorry I couldn't be of more help. 

Gary


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

GBR in WA said:


> One layer of felt/paper is 5-30 perms, depending on the moisture present. Two layers is 1/2 as much, still not a vapor retarder that would figure in the equation. (Unless something I may be missing- good possibility).
> 
> 
> Gary


That was my thought. That 30 lb. got that Perm rating close to 0 and the moisture in the attic condensed between the sheets and created a bump. Seen it a few times, but usually it shows up with just 15 lb. My guess was like the OP said, it was the tipping point and the 30lb on top of 15 lb made it show up.

Either way, it's a ventilation problem.

I'm guessing the other "wavy roof" thread is the same deal. Inadequate insulation and ventilation, and no vapor barrier(just kraft paper).


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Definitely bad ventilation in this case.

No need for a vapor barrier in Texas but the venting still has to be right.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks guys!

Ok, so if no vapor barrier is needed here, does that mean I should still expect the 1/150 formula to apply when calculating net free area needs?

In my "exploration", I've definitely noticed that the soffit vents are not evenly spaced and I've even spotted a baffle in the attic that doesn't even have a vent on the exterior. 

I've got a call in to the builder. We'll see how they stand behind their work after 6 years. Wish me luck.

P.S. My soffits are hardi plank. What are my odds of cutting new vent holes (if I can figure out how to push back the existing insulation without disturbing everything in the process).


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Your drywall ceiling is your vapor retarder layer, but not a true vapor barrier.

You don't need one in any part of Texas.

I would get into that attic and make sure the soffits are not blocked in any capacity. Hardie soffit is not real friendly to work with and not re-useable in most cases (i.e. able to be removed easily and put back easily).


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

if intake is lacking wouldn't that tend to depressurize the attic?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> if intake is lacking wouldn't that tend to depressurize the attic?


Yes.

And drive stack pressures which would accelerate the loss of conditioned air and moisture from the living space.

Intake should always be more than exhaust (shoot for 2:1 ratio).

I am not a fan of Hardie soffit as it does not seem to flow that much air in my opinion.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

but isn't over pressurization being blamed for this?..or am i not following?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> but isn't over pressurization being blamed for this?..or am i not following?


Heck if I know Tom. Seems to be a few of these running around lately.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, y'all please tell me if I'm reading all this correctly:

My house is underventilated, especially on intake. For 2500 sq ft of attic space [now including the garage foot print] I should have well over 1000 sq in of net free area for intake, probably closer to 1500 - right? And I sadly only have ~560.
This is likely causing air to be pulled in from the house which only has drywall and blown insulation betwen indoors and attic space (which might help explain why I've had trouble cooling in the summers)
My problem has gotten worse due to the addition of 30lb felt on top of the original 15lb felt (the gaps in my roof decking can no longer serve as part of the ventilation system)
This is also likely causing air from outside to get "stuck" in the attic, possibly causing it to dampen the plywood decking and the 15lb+30lb felt on top of it
The moisture is causing the felt to bubble, which makes my roof look terrible (and long term will cause it to fail prematurely?)
My existing soffit vents (though baffled) may be blocked so I should clear any obstructions (I'll probably just rip off the old ones and put up new ones with screws since the builder used nails...)
Hardi plank is a beast to cut in place and adding soffits is gonna be a beating due to the existing insulation
Anything I missed?

Is there a way to get more intake performance out of existing, baffled soffit vents. Like a solar fan driven intake?

Thanks for all y'alls help. I have the builder coming out tomorrow to take a look and I want to be ready to share what I've learned.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Leave the fan off because it will only exacerbate the issue until you fix the intake issues.

Ditch the Hardie soffit and get to opening those eaves up.

You needn't really factor the garage into the calculations because it is not conditioned space but while you are doing all the other venting, go for broke and make sure it is done once and right.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Definitely not planning to use any exhaust fans. Was more wondering if I could increase my intake somehow with a fan since I assume it's going to be really hard for me to get more vents without dropping some $$$... 

If I yank down the soffit, am I likely going to have to reinsulate the sides of the attic to replace the fill that falls/settles? Is that expensive? 

Or, once the eave is open, do you think I would be able to push baffles up (without it all falling to the ground) to displace some of the existing insulation before replacing the soffit (one with more vented openings)?

Also, do you think doing this will cause the roof to return to normal or do I also have to then take some remedial actions there as well? I'm obviously hoping you'll say that improved ventilation and some Texas sunshine will flatten things back out... :thumbup:


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

there should be no insulation in your soffit


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, wow, I didn't know that either! That gives me a lot more confidence that I can fix this myself withouth screwing up my attic insulation!


I did actually remove one of the soffit vents last night (to see how dirty and/or obstructed it was) and no insulation fell out. I thought it was just the baffles doing their job, but I realize now that the baffles are more there to ensure airflow over the top of any highly stacked insulation.

I guess it looks something like this in there:
http://www.brooksideroofing.ca/_borders/vents2.jpg (except I have the blown in stuff)


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, so a rep from the home builder came out to take a look. He said that their guidelines have them place an under-eave vent every 8 foot and not over windows. Basically, it looks like that's exactly what they did (and also explains why I have so few intake vents since my house has lots of windows). 

Is that ludicrous or is there some method to their madness? The rep was friendly and said he'd pass it up to someone else with more experience to come take a second look. He also checked to make sure the decking used clips (which it does). I was pretty surprised/pleased that they even came out considering that the house is now 6+ years old.

Given that they've built hundreds of homes in my neighborhood, and likely many with my exact floor plan (and therefore lack of vents per their guidelines), do y'all still think this is my issue? I guess I might still be the only guy with the two layers (15 + 30lb) felt...

In the meantime, I'm going to go ahead and pull off all the existing soffit vents to see if any are obstructed.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

i believe the theory behind no vents over windows is in case there is a fire and the window is open or broken it won't get drawn up into the attic space

not sure if it's true or not but i heard it a long time ago


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## BradBi11 (Feb 21, 2012)

*Most likely the felt*

I've had this problem before, just not as bad. First thing is that there will need to be repairs done and shingles replaced regardless. There is a good chance that it is the felt. What happens is somehow moisture developes under the felt causing it to bubble in turn lifting the shingle. That's why it feels like an air bubble, because it is. You may notice that the pattern of the bubbles resembles the width of the felt paper. If this is the cause, shingles will need to be removed along the entire bubbled area, the felt paper cut and re-fastened, and new shingles installed. Installing felt over felt is very typical anywhere.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

My roofer is still waiting for a final opinion from Owens Corning, but the prevailing theory from them is that there was some sort of moisture imbalance caused by the fact that we had a really dry summer (drought) and then alot of rain, right after the roof went on (as well as the first rain for months, the morning the roof went on but before tearoff). Some people seem to believe this will correct itself over time. Would you say that's unlikely?

Meanwhile, I did go ahead and replace all my soffit vents this weekend. The old ones were definitely clogged up with dust, pollen, and other small fibers. The soffit cavity and baffles were clear though. I also definitely noticed that some of the openings were not cut as large as they should have been to take full advantage of the vents.

I don't think the lack of ventilation caused this problem on its own, but it surely didn't help... Hoping I can convince the builder to cut and baffle a few more for me, in case it expedites any drying out that needs to occur. In any case, if someone actually physically fixes the felt and shingles, I'd want to make sure my ventilation was able to minimize any recurrence.

Would I be crazy to crack my garage door a few inches and leave the attic door/stairs (in the garage) open to create a massive intake for a week or two?


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

dfwnewroof said:


> My roofer is still waiting for a final opinion from Owens Corning, but the prevailing theory from them is that there was some sort of moisture imbalance caused by the fact that we had a really dry summer (drought) and then alot of rain, right after the roof went on (as well as the first rain for months, the morning the roof went on but before tearoff). Some people seem to believe this will correct itself over time. Would you say that's unlikely?
> 
> Meanwhile, I did go ahead and replace all my soffit vents this weekend. The old ones were definitely clogged up with dust, pollen, and other small fibers. The soffit cavity and baffles were clear though. I also definitely noticed that some of the openings were not cut as large as they should have been to take full advantage of the vents.
> 
> ...


just skimmed through this thread, but did the roof decking or felt get wet at anytime during the reroof? That felt will bubble up when it gets wet.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

There was a brief shower the morning that the roofer's got started (they started tearoff that afternoon). The rolls of felt were sitting my driveway at that time, so I assume they got a little wet on the exterior. Would a brief shower be enough to get wicked into most of the roll?


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*here's where we landed*

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Here's where everything has landed:

Owens Corning's expert is saying that the ventilation system suffered from a "moisture imbalance" due to our record drought last summer followed by rain right around the time my new roof went on. He says he's seen this many times before in places like Arizona where they are prone to drought followed by extreme rain. He is confident that it will work itself out over time, particularly as the heat of summer drives the trapped moisture out of the system (primarily the felt). My roofer and I have agreed to see how it goes for several more months.

My homebuilder came out and agreed that they had shorted me at least two soffit intakes (they're using the 1/300 rule on a roof area of 2715 sq ft). They're going to come back out and add 3 new intakes, giving me a total of 13. I've already replaced my 6 yr old, dirty soffit vents with new ones (was amazing how dirty the screens had gotten) and they've agreed to also widen the openings on several of the cuts that aren't taking full advantage of the vent area. I'm hoping that all of this will get my intake even or greater than my 5 turtle exhaust vents and further accelerate the "predicted" disappearance of my roof bubbles.

I'll do my best to let everyone know if the problem actually goes away on its own or ultimately requires manual intervention.


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

Please have everyone put it in writing.:thumbsup:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

framer52 said:


> Please have everyone put it in writing.:thumbsup:


+1

Won't find any better advice than that. If the issue is as they say, it should resolve itself simply then.


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## drlook (Feb 29, 2012)

*maine roofer*

Wet felt. roofer should have slit puckers. they will probably never go away. 15lb or 30lb felt is a thing of the past anyway. there are many new roof underlayement products out there now. Been roofing in Maine for over 30yrs and this roof would certainly leak if it were here in Maine. shingle slots are not staggered right and dip on eaves would leak in a icedam situation. basically roof was not prepped right before shingling. also make sure you have soffit vents so your higher vents will work. you now have what we call a HOT roof because all that roof paper and poor venting. try removing the shingles at every pucker, slit paper and reinstall shingles. In ten years . Install new roof with propper underlayement and architectual laminated shingle that will last 35 to 45 yrs.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

drlook said:


> Wet felt. roofer should have slit puckers. they will probably never go away. 15lb or 30lb felt is a thing of the past anyway. there are many new roof underlayement products out there now. Been roofing in Maine for over 30yrs and this roof would certainly leak if it were here in Maine. shingle slots are not staggered right and dip on eaves would leak in a icedam situation. basically roof was not prepped right before shingling. also make sure you have soffit vents so your higher vents will work. you now have what we call a HOT roof because all that roof paper and poor venting. try removing the shingles at every pucker, slit paper and reinstall shingles. In ten years . Install new roof with propper underlayement and architectual laminated shingle that will last 35 to 45 yrs.


For a fellow veteran of the trade, you sure have a lot of faith in new products that have not proven themselves yet.....:whistling2:


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## drlook (Feb 29, 2012)

MJW said:


> For a fellow veteran of the trade, you sure have a lot of faith in new products that have not proven themselves yet.....:whistling2:


 I've been using Grace H2O sheild since 1980, and Rooftopguard11 for half that long, best things they ever invented for roofers, check out there websites and see stats and other roofer testimonials, felt can 't even come close. I think these products have certainly proven themselves.And installing 3 tab shingles instead of laminated archectuals at the same price to buy and install doesn't even make sense, when you can gain almost 15yrs of life. :thumbup:


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

drlook said:


> I've been using Grace H2O sheild since 1980, and Rooftopguard11 for half that long, best things they ever invented for roofers, check out there websites and see stats and other roofer testimonials, felt can 't even come close. I think these products have certainly proven themselves.*And installing 3 tab shingles instead of laminated archectuals at the same price to buy and install doesn't even make sense, when you can gain almost 15yrs of life.* :thumbup:


I agree, but it's still speculation. It will depend on your location also. Not many roofs last that long up here.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks guys. My homebuilder actually came out and added several more (baffled) soffit vents, checked all my existing ones, and opened up some of the vent openings that weren't as big as they should have been (to match the size of the vent cover). They even blew in a fresh batch of insulation (6 years after completing the initial build). They've more than earned my word of mouth for sure. (Highland Homes!)

I definitely think that previously I was a little short on intake, but not a ton. I think that's been a red herring.

One other interesting development is that I've noticed that my backyard neighbor, whose roof was put on several weeks before mine by a different outfit, is also showing some bubbles. When his went on, we were still in a drought (hadn't had rain for 3-4 months) and it was relatively warm, so I'm starting to believe that this was more about the weather patterns and the time of year that the roof went on.

Call me naive, but I'm starting to believe the guy from Owens Corning who thinks that once the summer sun starts to more directly bake the north slope of my roof, the moisture will dissipate and the roof will lay down. I'll report back as time goes on.


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*Post Summer Update*

So, upon the advice of the materials expert at Owens Corning, I let the Summer come and go, hoping that the Texas heat would clear out any trapped moisture - causing the bubbles to relax and the roof to finally lay flight.

Honestly, as the Summer sun got more vertical, I really started to believe it was happening, but now that it's taking more of an angle again (and I've started paying attention early and late in the day), it's clear it hasn't changed much if at all.

Anyhow, my roofer (who I have to admit has really stuck by me on this) reached back out to OC who responded that we needed to take it up with manufacturer of the underlayment. In his opinion, the material probably had too much moisture from the manufacturing process.

Ironically, it's OC felt. So, now we're in the process of filing a claim with OC. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Hopefully this helps some other folks who are having similar, mysterious issues.

:thumbup:


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## dfwnewroof (Feb 12, 2012)

*Eureka!*

OC couldn't find anything seriously wrong with the felt sample but they have agreed to provide new materials and to pay for the labor to re-do the roof. They are asking my roofer to strip down to the bare decking.

Any reason I shouldn't have the roof done during the winter (lately the daytime temps have been in the 60-70s and nighttimes in the 50s)?


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

Im in Canada and I roof straight through the winter, in those temps your likely not too have any issues whatsoever.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

dfwnewroof said:


> OC couldn't find anything seriously wrong with the felt sample but they have agreed to provide new materials and to pay for the labor to re-do the roof.


Merry early X-mas


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