# Question on Romex in Attic?



## Jim Ignatowski (Dec 20, 2011)

Hello - I know this topic has been covered before, but I can't seem to figure out how the NEC code applies. I have an accessible attic, and I'm running 12/2 ROMEX up from my garage wall to a ceiling outlet for my garage door opener. As I exit the wall in the attic I need to run across some rafters. I would prefer not to drill through 15 or 20 of them in order to get to the receptacle, so I was planning on either encasing the ROMEX in conduit, or simply running it over the rafters in a non-accessible part of the attic. Would either of these options conform to code? Where I'm running this is over 10' away from the entrance to the attic. I attached a few pictures. BTW, I'm in NY State. 
Thank you in advance.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Your local building inspector knows the answer.

I personally would use the conduit. for the added protection. 


ED


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Conduitmis not needed. You could place a running board in front of the cable if you think it could be damaged. It does need to be stapled.


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## Jake. (Sep 29, 2014)

320.23 In Accessible Attics. 
Type AC cables in accessible attics or roof spaces shall be installed as specified in 320.23(A) and (B). 

(A)Cables Run Across the Top of Floor Joists. Where run across the top of floor joists, or within 7ft of the floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding, the cable shall be protected by substantial guard strips that are at least as high as the cable. Where this space is not accessible by permanent stairs or ladders, protection shall only be required within 6ft of the nearest edge of the scuttle hole or attic entrance.

I realize this artical identifies AC cable but it is directed for compliance for NM cable by 334.23.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

de-nagorg said:


> Your local building inspector knows the answer.
> ED


So do most of the professional electricians here on this DIY site. 
Probably why he came here with the question.


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## Jim Ignatowski (Dec 20, 2011)

Thank you for the answers everyone. Protecting the wire with a guard strip (2x4) makes sense and would be an easy solution for me. 

With regards to asking the local building inspector, I have had trouble getting straight answers on these kind of questions in the past. Often they're answer would be to hire a licensed contractor.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That makes your local inspector a "HACK" that does not know his job. 

Which I would question their judgment when approving anything. 

Want to add that there are different codes enforced in different communities : So the professionals here DO NOT know every little thing about everywhere, only what is in their respective area of business.

Jim: do use the approved stapling system to hand this romex from the rafters, and a protective cover of some sort. 

conduit, a groove routed into a 2x4 then placed over the wiring, something .


ED


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Ed, approved stapling system? I am not sure what system you mean. Any staple listed for the usage would be fine. That far over and with no floor I would not worry about a guard strip, but the OP seemed to have concerns.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim Port said:


> Ed, approved stapling system? I am not sure what system you mean. Any staple listed for the usage would be fine. That far over and with no floor I would not worry about a guard strip, but the OP seemed to have concerns.


What I was trying to say was to not use an Arrow type staple gun, or a bent nail system or any that might pinch the romex and potentially cause a short later. to use the kind that is normally used with Romex. 


ED


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

There are staple guns made for NM and other types of cables.


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## Jim Ignatowski (Dec 20, 2011)

I have no issue using conduit and I already have a piece long enough sitting around. I could simply secure that to the rafter and run the romex through it. I don't want to start more controversy, but some have said that it's not a good idea to use conduit with romex because of the heat build up .... Is that a valid concern? In another portion of my garage I wanted to run romex into conduit on my ceiling to a few light fixtures, and was reluctant about using romex after I read that. Thx again


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Jim Ignatowski said:


> I have no issue using conduit and I already have a piece long enough sitting around. I could simply secure that to the rafter and run the romex through it. I don't want to start more controversy, but some have said that it's not a good idea to use conduit with romex because of the heat build up .... Is that a valid concern? In another portion of my garage I wanted to run romex into conduit on my ceiling to a few light fixtures, and was reluctant about using romex after I read that. Thx again


Romex inside conduit is not a problem.
Just staple the wire you have in place, and add a 2x4 beside the wire if it makes you feel better.


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

Jim, You can use conduit if it's just used as a sleeve. (no boxes on either end). I would staple the wire as close in the corner (when the roof joists meet the attic joists) as possible, then on the side of the attic floor joists to the outlet location. This way you wouldn't have to worry about the conduit at all.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

petey_c said:


> Jim, You can use conduit if it's just used as a sleeve. (no boxes on either end). I would staple the wire as close in the corner (when the roof joists meet the attic joists) as possible, then on the side of the attic floor joists to the outlet location. This way you wouldn't have to worry about the conduit at all.


Nothing prevents him from using romex inside conduit from box to box.


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

de-nagorg, you mean like this?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Depending on how tight those roofing nails are, it might pass . But I would not use a mess like that. 

ED


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> That makes your local inspector a "HACK" that does not know his job. Which I would question their judgment when approving anything. Want to add that there are different codes enforced in different communities : So the professionals here DO NOT know every little thing about everywhere, only what is in their respective area of business. Jim: do use the approved stapling system to hand this romex from the rafters, and a protective cover of some sort. conduit, a groove routed into a 2x4 then placed over the wiring, something . ED


How does that make him a hack? When I doubt someone's abilities, I suggest they hire a licensed EC also. My first concern is safety.


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## fa_f3_20 (Dec 30, 2011)

What the sparkies around here are starting to do is fasten cross-attic runs to the underside of the roof rafters.


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## ritelec (Aug 30, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> That makes your local inspector a "HACK"
> conduit, a groove routed into a 2x4 then placed over the wiring, something .
> 
> 
> ED


That makes him a hack ?
The inspectors aren t there to show or tell people how to do things 

Groove a board? Yes. Then add a bunch of caution tape around it so no one drives a nail through it


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## ritelec (Aug 30, 2009)

petey_c said:


> de-nagorg, you mean like this?


That's great. Many moons ago I removed forty feet in someone's basement. A roofing nail was driven right through the center ( ground ) every three or four feet


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

The building Inspectors job falls under the "public Servant" umbrella. 

And a public servant is supposed to serve the public, not tell them to hire a professional. 

If this public servant cannot explain the rules, he should not be enforcing them. 

Their job entails more than talking trash to a secretary. 

Maybe I have been spoiled by my local inspector, but have had them pitch in and help ,even though I needed no help. 

Then the inspector told the home owner I was working for at that time that the home owner was lucky to have me there doing things above and beyond the code requirements. 

ED


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## Jim Ignatowski (Dec 20, 2011)

It might be a regional issue, but the building inspectors in the town I live have been less than helpful. I’ve called with questions regarding both exterior and interior renovations and have had people say “no” before I even started explaining what I was trying to do. In my opinion, the only thing they’re interested in is identifying what kind of a permit they can attach to the work you’re doing so they can generate some revenue. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re paid on commission.


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

Ed, 
As a public servant consider yourself spoiled.
There is a limit as to what advice any servant can provide. How quickly your public can turn on you. We have liability issues too. Especially with electrical issues. When it comes to inspectors, one will tell you one way today and if you get a different one the next time, they might just ask why you're doing it that way. 
It may differ from town to town, but I bet not by much.

And Jim, you may very well be correct. I won't say my city is perfect. Only the section I'm in.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> Depending on how tight those roofing nails are,* it might pass* . But I would not use a mess like that.
> 
> ED


It should never pass.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

de-nagorg said:


> Depending on how tight those roofing nails are, it might pass . But I would not use a mess like that.
> 
> ED


I would not consider roofing nails to be similar enough to any of the methods listed in 334.30 that lists staples, cable ties, straps, hangers or similar fittings.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Electures; jimport,
That is what I said. I WOULD NOT USE THAT.

ED


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