# bay window roof



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Dear All,
The cover on the bay window was stolen months ago. I have tried to fix the rainwater penetration via cracks on the exposed concrete roof using flashband. I would like to carry on the job to let rainwater flow to the gutter rather than run along the wall. 
Basically I am a new diyer. I plan to cover the roof with bituminous felt. Do I need to nail the felt to the concrete roof and lead flashing alone the elevattion and roof? Alternatively do you think it is better to cover the roof with tile or something else? I appreciate any advice from your guys to help me finish the job properly.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Pictures help in this case.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Sorry, I just forgot the attachment. The pics look a bit odd after resizing.


Windows on Wash said:


> Pictures help in this case.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Forget the felt. Just buy 4# lead and roof it with that.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

The bay window roof is very low since the house is below the road level. I am a bit worried that the lead will soon be stolen again.





tinner666 said:


> Forget the felt. Just buy 4# lead and roof it with that.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I wouldn't think there's much of a market for lead in recycling. Lots of places won't take it. It has a bad name for some reason I can't fathom.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

And, it's too heavy to run far with either.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

ha, it is not difficult to rent a van to carry it these days ...
anyway as you can see the roof is terraced, do I need to lay the lead from the roof edge above the gutter all the way to the wall and embed the lead into the wall? If I only cover the edge above the gutter, how can i seal the other end of lead sheet? 
To cover the roof with slate, is it possible to nail the slate to the concrete wall? and is it ok only to cover the roof edge with slate?



tinner666 said:


> And, it's too heavy to run far with either.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Too flat for slate. 
The lead needs ot wrapped around and clamped tightly to the drip edge metal on the roof. At the top of any sheet, fold the top edge of the lead over to form a flat-lock. Make the flaps 2".
Take the next sheet and fold the edge under and slide it into the lock on the first sheet. Dress it down with a mallet. 
Look at the links on my website for more details and some answers I posted earlier today about metal roof repairs.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh. At the wall, turn the lead up 3" or so.

For the counter-flashing, just stagger the lead from mortar joint to mortar joint, tucking it into the joint. At the top just tuck it into the mortar joint under the window sill at the top. It can lay on the roof at the bottom, or be above the roof somewhat. Seal with caulk or mortar.


----------



## dougger222 (Feb 25, 2011)

If you put copper it will get stolen if you go lead more than likely it won't get stolen. I've been recycling metals for several years and last year started taking the lead off the two piece plumbing vents. A five gallon bucket which is fairly heavy only earned me $7. More than likely will keep taking the lead off the pipes only to not have them being melted with the steel.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

tinner666 said:


> And, it's too heavy to run far with either.


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks to everyone.
I may try to carry on the job with lead according to your proposal. Do I need to nail the lead to the roof somewhere in case it falls off at bad weather? The roof has two steps which may make it not easy to clamp the lead tightly to the roof. 
By the way why I shouldn't use felt? Is there other way to cover the roof and lead rain water to the gutter? I live in the UK. With economy in double dip recession there are burglaries for lead pipe/gutter indeed. The roof is within touch from the road. 



tinner666 said:


> Oh. At the wall, turn the lead up 3" or so.
> 
> For the counter-flashing, just stagger the lead from mortar joint to mortar joint, tucking it into the joint. At the top just tuck it into the mortar joint under the window sill at the top. It can lay on the roof at the bottom, or be above the roof somewhat. Seal with caulk or mortar.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Use copper cleats to hold the lead in position. About 3" wide by 5" long, 12" apart. Just hook them to the folds, drive in 2 copper nails or 3, per cleat, and fold the tab end of the cleats back over the nails.
Use felt if you want. It shouldn't hurt the lead, or your roof.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Why has no one suggest standing seam?
Just asking.
Cheap, not worth stealing.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Which SS. Not steel. It doesn't lend itself well to anything but gable roofs. And the commercial looks really sucks.
Galv would rust pretty fast in the UK if I'm not mistaken. Aluminum is the same as steel, btw.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Not to mention the pitch is fine for a FL in lead or copper.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Really appreciate. Do you mean the cleat as the attached pic? I mount the cleat along the edge of the roof, just above the gutter, is that right?




tinner666 said:


> Use copper cleats to hold the lead in position. About 3" wide by 5" long, 12" apart. Just hook them to the folds, drive in 2 copper nails or 3, per cleat, and fold the tab end of the cleats back over the nails.
> Use felt if you want. It shouldn't hurt the lead, or your roof.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Nope. Top of the panel. The word 'gutter' is used in the example to denote the water flow.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Pardon my weak effort at drawing. Red is cleat, black is current dripedge, Gray is the new lead.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

If you want to fly the family and I over in a few weeks, I'll help you with it.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I figure it shouldn't cost you much more than the house did.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Thank you very much. I gonna to watch your videos to get more confidence to do the job. 
By the way I am currently in holiday this week by staying on the computer very late. 
Have a nice holiday. 





tinner666 said:


> Nope. Top of the panel. The word 'gutter' is used in the example to denote the water flow.





tinner666 said:


> If you want to fly the family and I over in a few weeks, I'll help you with it.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

This is a SS roof, but many details are the same. Turning the metal up the wall. Back cleating along the wall to hold the panels in place, etc. http://www.albertsroofing.com/Tin%20Roofing%20photo_gallery.htm


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks. I will read carefully. I may have one more question at this moment. 
To cover the whole roof from bottom to top it need three layers.
Should I use a single lead sheet to cover the left, front and right side of the roof for every layer?



tinner666 said:


> This is a SS roof, but many details are the same. Turning the metal up the wall. Back cleating along the wall to hold the panels in place, etc. http://www.albertsroofing.com/Tin%20Roofing%20photo_gallery.htm


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I've been thinking about it. I believe two sheets for each panel/plane/area/facet of the bay window.
I'm inclined to think 18" 'tall' by the width of each pane, and 3" up the walls.

Thinking about the cleats too. I think you better make them from lead. Less chance of an edge cutting a hole through the lead. Try stretching them before installing them. It makes them a little stiffer. (Same way came is stretched when doing stained glass to make it less floppy and the window stiffer.)


----------



## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Lead makes a great roof, but if it's going to get nicked again you might have to think about getting an asphalter in. 
In somes places they are even taking road signs in for selling as scrap.


----------



## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Did your cable TV or satellite TV provider run that cable like it is? Kind of shoddy.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Should I use anything to cover the two bridges which join different plane, one between right and front plane, the other between left and front? It sounds a big job although it is a small area. 



tinner666 said:


> I've been thinking about it. I believe two sheets for each panel/plane/area/facet of the bay window.
> I'm inclined to think 18" 'tall' by the width of each pane, and 3" up the walls.
> 
> Thinking about the cleats too. I think you better make them from lead. Less chance of an edge cutting a hole through the lead. Try stretching them before installing them. It makes them a little stiffer. (Same way came is stretched when doing stained glass to make it less floppy and the window stiffer.)


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

There are several deserted cables left by former owner during his residence there since 1980s.



hammerlane said:


> Did your cable TV or satellite TV provider run that cable like it is? Kind of shoddy.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks. Does asphaltic roof mean felt roof?



stuart45 said:


> Lead makes a great roof, but if it's going to get nicked again you might have to think about getting an asphalter in.
> In somes places they are even taking road signs in for selling as scrap.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

You do the hips the same way as the flat-locks at the top of each panel. 
Go over the ridge abut 2" and fold that into a flat-lock. Make the next panel 4" larger than the hip on each end to lock into the prior panel.

It usually looks best when you do the two ends first, then fill in the center.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Some examples. All have standing seam, but that should help you see where to put them.


----------



## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

beresford said:


> Thanks. Does asphaltic roof mean felt roof?


No, mastic asphalt is just the hot stuff put on by the asphalters in a similar way to plasterers doing a wall or screeding floors. Not quite as good as lead or copper, but lasts much longer than felt.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

I still have some questions on the cleat and other. Now I understand the cleat to be mounted on the top of the roof and be covered by counter-flashing. Is that right? But how does the cleat clamp the lead sheet on the two side panel of the roof.
Should the 3'' part of lead sheet up the walls be embedded into wall as counter-flashing? Or should I make the flashing using different lead sheet? 



tinner666 said:


> I've been thinking about it. I believe two sheets for each panel/plane/area/facet of the bay window.
> I'm inclined to think 18" 'tall' by the width of each pane, and 3" up the walls.
> 
> Thinking about the cleats too. I think you better make them from lead. Less chance of an edge cutting a hole through the lead. Try stretching them before installing them. It makes them a little stiffer. (Same way came is stretched when doing stained glass to make it less floppy and the window stiffer.)


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

It looks there is no metal along the drip edge. should I still wrap the drip edge or just leave the lead sheet 2'' into the gutter? 



tinner666 said:


> Too flat for slate.
> The lead needs ot wrapped around and clamped tightly to the drip edge metal on the roof. At the top of any sheet, fold the top edge of the lead over to form a flat-lock. Make the flaps 2".
> Take the next sheet and fold the edge under and slide it into the lock on the first sheet. Dress it down with a mallet.
> Look at the links on my website for more details and some answers I posted earlier today about metal roof repairs.


----------



## beresford (Jan 9, 2012)

I may find the asphalter from yellow page for a quote. I am wondering Whether mastic asphalt on the roof can lead the water into the gutter.



stuart45 said:


> No, mastic asphalt is just the hot stuff put on by the asphalters in a similar way to plasterers doing a wall or screeding floors. Not quite as good as lead or copper, but lasts much longer than felt.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

"It looks there is no metal along the drip edge. should I still wrap the drip edge or just leave the lead sheet 2'' into the gutter?" That's not metal? Can you get somebody to fabricate a proper drip-edge? If so, 1-1/2" out and 2" down looks about right, from here. he lead would lock on the 'flat' edge of it.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

"I still have some questions on the cleat and other. Now I understand the cleat to be mounted on the top of the roof and be covered by counter-flashing. Is that right? Cleats go into any and every folded lap on the roof. 


But how does the cleat clamp the lead sheet on the two side panel of the roof." At the hip, and you should be OK also cleating the top laps. I think you can skip the 'back-cleats'.

Should the 3'' part of lead sheet up the walls be embedded into wall as counter-flashing? I wouldn't if it sags any, it will pull out and cause a leak.

Or should I make the flashing using different lead sheet? Yes.


----------



## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

beresford said:


> I may find the asphalter from yellow page for a quote. I am wondering Whether mastic asphalt on the roof can lead the water into the gutter.


Shouldn't be a problem.


----------

