# Synthetic oil changes



## leonuug (Jan 4, 2012)

I use synthetic oil in my Camry because I put about 2500 miles a month on my car and I like being able to change my oil every 4 months instead of every month and a half. Someone told me that I should use natural oil every 3 or 4 changes because they have additives that clean the engine that synthetics don't have. I can't find anything to support this and I believe he was getting oil and fuel confused. Anyhow, has anybody else heard this or am I correct to assume I can continue to use synthetic with no issues.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

The following site has all sorts of stuff on oil. If you don't find it, you can ask there. This guy seems to devote his every waking moment to oil!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com


Here is a sample...

ZDP depletion and GM oil life monitor...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=130036


----------



## Jay 78 (Mar 2, 2011)

You are correct. Keep using synthetic. 

You hear people say if you use conventional oil, you can't switch to synthetic, and vice versa. There are others, as you pointed out, that recommend you switch it up. Do not listen to them.


----------



## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

1. buy GOOD synthetic (amsoil is my choice)
2. Mobil1 filter
3. go to W-mart and buy 4qrt jar of cheapest oil possible in 5W20
4. buy can of SeafoaM
5. pour Seafom into crankcase and drive for about 500 miles
6. drain oil
7. refill with W-mart oil, run engine for about 15 minutes, occasionally revving to 2-3 000RPMs and holding there; this is your flush oil
8. drain flush oil(it will come out pitch black, yes)
9. replace filter and refill with fresh oil.

I put 54 000 miles year one on my CR-V, that's when I either had to do oil changes every other week, or look into alternatives. I started with Royal Purple, but switched to Amsoil. Amsoil is very cost efficient, if bought in pales online. Is guaranteed for 25 000 miles use, if you can mentally stomach this.


----------



## leonuug (Jan 4, 2012)

Thank you for the replies. 
I actually used to flush my engine oil every once in a while when I was single and oil was about a buck a quart. It's amazing how much leftover dirty oil is in the engine when you change the oil. It's hard to pay for 4 quarts of oil just to flush it now with oil prices the way they are, although I may splurge and do it once before summer hits. I will deff be using Wally world oil for the flush.
I currently use Mobil 1, is Amsoil much better in quality? 
I just saw the video about Seafoam spray for the intake. WOW I can't wait to get my hands on a can of that! 
Bob's oil website is now in my Favorites menu, thank you!


----------



## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

unless I was going to do oil analysis and try to extend my OCI (Oil change interval) I wouldn't bother with the Amsoil. thats just me though. I use mobil 1 myself ( truck and SUV diesel for my diesel CRD and just normal synthetic mobil 1 for my gassers )

I've use seafam in the past, but other than the fun smoke factor, I haven't noticed any gains, real or imagined, myself.


----------



## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

I bought a Corvette (C4 model) that came with synthetic (Mobil 1) from the factory and never had a problem, so I continued to use it.

I bought a 1999 Jimmy that apparently was owned and maintained by GM corporate (not a dealer) that was sold at 24,500 miles and I now have 165,000 on it and was not dumb enough to re-invent the wheel and continued to use Mobil 1. When I needed a change, my mechanic (2 man shop) said he did not stock Mobil 1, but said I should do what he does for his collector 1962 split window Corvette and and buys a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 at Walmart. Now, I go in for a change with a jug and a filter in the back and he changes the oil and filter and he just takes them does what is necessary for $8 or $10 (I can't remember the details). When I come in at 7500 miles his right hand man asks why I wanted to drain out the clean oil and replace, but that is because he just works there and does not own the car. I have no qualms about hopping into my car and taking a 4,000 trip without any changes or preparation.

Oil is not expensive and the important thing is to do the routine stuff.

I do use Seafoam periodically in my fuel and it seems to keep everything clean and working properly. I don't think it is a cure-all, but it seems to help.

I don't know it it is the oil or additives, but I am not changing because it works and is cheap in the end. - My friend in Switzerland has an older Mercedes with 500,000 miles on it and has not had a problem, but that is a different animal (engine precision and cost wise).

Dick


----------



## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

leonuug said:


> I use synthetic oil in my Camry because I put about 2500 miles a month on my car and I like being able to change my oil every 4 months instead of every month and a half. Someone told me that I should use natural oil every 3 or 4 changes because they have additives that clean the engine that synthetics don't have. I can't find anything to support this and I believe he was getting oil and fuel confused. Anyhow, has anybody else heard this or am I correct to assume I can continue to use synthetic with no issues.


First of all, you'll find endless argument in the synthetic vss dino oil debate. If you like synthetic - like I do - go with it.

That said, don't bother using dino oil periodically. That's a dumb rumor. Change your oil regularly, and always use a good filter.


----------



## brons2 (Jan 25, 2010)

Forget seafoam, just use a quality oil and change at regular intervals. The major oil companies all make good oil. http://www.pqiamerica.com/testresults3a.html.

I have been a BobIsTheOilGuy (BITOG) member since 2003 and I've done a number of oil analyses on my cars. For my driving regime, synthetic does not make sense unless I get a super great deal on it. I do lots of short trips which leads to TBN (total base number) depletion on conventional or synthetic alike and so I get little benefit from syn. My analysis results are roughly equal on conventional or synthetic. 

However, in situations like the OPs, he may derive benefit from using syn, especially a high TBN oil like Mobil 1 Extended Performance, Pennzoil Ultra or Amsoil Signature Series. Start with one of those three going 6 or 7000 and follow up with an oil analysis, and extend further on an on-condition basis.

Oh and with my 5000 mile changes on conventional, my 65,000 mile engine looks brand new under the valve cover, no sludge, varnish or even discoloration to speak of. Conventional oils are far, far better than they used to be.


----------



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I have one that has synthetic in it. I see no advantage. It had synthetic when I bought it and don't want to change now. All the rest (four) have regular oil and one has 400,000 miles on it.


----------



## brons2 (Jan 25, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> It had synthetic when I bought it and don't want to change now


Why? There is no harm in doing so. I have switched back and forth between conventional and synthetic on just about every car I've ever had, with no ill effects.


----------



## Matco88 (Feb 3, 2012)

If you have been using synthetic, keep using it. IMO, no sense going back and forth.

I've never done a flush before, used Seafoam once. I use Mobil 1 in our cars and it works well for us.


----------



## leonuug (Jan 4, 2012)

Well there seem to be endless amounts of opinions, lol. It appears that the conclusion that I can take away from all your comments is to make sure I just change the damn oil. haha. I go twice as long with Mobil 1 than I do with conventional so it's worth it for me. My car is low mile (130,000) so I'm yet to get a conclusion, but I can't imagine that using Mobil 1 with a Fram oil filter will have any negative effects. It is awesome to hear what everybody says about oil though. Surprisingly, my wife gets bored when I try to talk to her about oil science, so I'm glad you guys like to talk about it :laughing:


----------



## Jay 78 (Mar 2, 2011)

leonuug said:


> just change the damn oil.


At the end of the day, that's all that matters. 

People are just as opinionated when it comes to filters, too.


----------



## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Most people do not own or drive cars long enough to evaluate the differences in the newer engines with long lives.

I jst prefer to continue what had been used, since changing with a cheap oil really does not save money unless I want to use the savings to buy some spray to make my tires look better.

There is no question that the high performance cars that run for money or pride usually depend on synthetics even if they get them for free.

Dick


----------



## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

DrHicks said:


> First of all, you'll find endless argument in the synthetic vss dino oil debate. If you like synthetic - like I do - go with it.
> 
> That said, don't bother using dino oil periodically. That's a dumb rumor. Change your oil regularly, and always use a good filter.


Ditto on the filter.


----------



## brons2 (Jan 25, 2010)

Matco88 said:


> If you have been using synthetic, keep using it. IMO, no sense going back and forth.


If I can get synthetic for near to or as cheap as conventional on sale, I'll buy it just for the heck of it, so that's why I switch back and forth 

Latest sale, I just picked up 10 quarts of Mobil Super 5000 and 2 filters for $28. I think I'm goin back for more


----------



## dougger222 (Feb 25, 2011)

I run synthetic in the 3 work trucks and daily driver, all run on Amsoil, the best out out there.

All go 20-25K miles between changes with NAPA gold filters. Sometimes however you have to swap out the filter half way through the oils life. The 3 work vehicles are 7.3ltr diesels. Mileage is 210K, 235K, and 307K miles.

Before switching to syn oil used to run conventional oil to 10K miles.
Know a guy who changed to the Amsoil bypass system on his diesel excursion at 3K miles. Currently at 150K miles he's still to do a full oil change. The Blackstone reports every 10K miles have been good.


----------



## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

If you are using synthetic - keep using synthetic.

It's also OK to switch from regular oil to synthetic you just have to keep in mind that this sometimes casues leaks since the synthetic oil will wash away some of the gunk that regular oil doesn't. I bought a Grand Cherokee with 46K miles on it and switched it to synthetic. I had to change valve cover gaskets, rear axle seal and rear main seal before I was leak free after that.


----------



## Weird_T_Figure (Feb 2, 2012)

Where is the scientific, objective evidence that synthetic oil changes are worth the cost, for the average person?


----------



## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Weird_T_Figure said:


> Where is the scientific, objective evidence that synthetic oil changes are worth the cost, for the average person?


In the Dino versus Synthetic Oil debate, there is scientific evidence to support whatever you want to believe.

It comes down to this: Change your oil and filter regularly.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Adding a can of seafoam into your oil pan can nulify all the science/research that went into developing friction modifiers and correct weight used to optimize car engine lubrication. Do you know what seafoam is, people? Its mainly paint thinner and naphta- dangerous to add as this is a solvent, not a lubricant. Big difference. Almost no viscosity to speak of. This thins out the lubricating oil greatly, reducing to dangerous environment for piston rings, etc.


----------



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

All the oil additives are just a gimmick. Back when STP was the "thing", you would know when doing a tear down if it had been used. I have scraped it out of the oil pan with a putty knife. Any of them would probably void the engine warranty.


----------



## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

noquacks said:


> Adding a can of seafoam into your oil pan can nulify all the science/research that went into developing friction modifiers and correct weight used to optimize car engine lubrication. Do you know what seafoam is, people? Its mainly paint thinner and naphta- dangerous to add as this is a solvent, not a lubricant. Big difference. Almost no viscosity to speak of. This thins out the lubricating oil greatly, reducing to dangerous environment for piston rings, etc.


yeah, I'd been careful saying this. There is no thinners or solvents of any nature in Seafoam. With all due respect, as I know you for some time here, it's quacks talk.


----------



## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

DrHicks said:


> In the Dino versus Synthetic Oil debate, there is scientific evidence to support whatever you want to believe.
> 
> It comes down to this: Change your oil and filter regularly.



well, this is truly a never ending argument, as all folks do is to spill out their "opinions". There's a great online book, 
https://themotoroilevaluator.com/members-blog/the-motor-oil-bible/
http://hyperformancecycles.net/oil_bible.pdf

but even after all the charts and tables he provides, "opinioners" will say - oh, he's paid for by Amsoil; or "he's biased".

basically, this is idle discussion. you can listen to me, fella who uses quality synth for 10 years, uses Seafoam in ALL of his cars several times a year - or, you can listen to whoever else you wish to. I can even make a suggestion - listen to QuickLUbe CEO. now HE will be a "reliable" source.


----------



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> listen to QuickLUbe CEO. now HE will be a "reliable" source.


 Or you could say he's trying to increase sales.


----------



## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

whatever. 3000 myth is golden goose for petroleum stock based oil companies. thereafter, no matter what THEY say, unless they are suicidal, or ate truth serum, is nothing but a sales pitch.

According to a technical paper (850564.1985) by the Society of Automotive Engineers, "Laboratory
engine dynamometer, vehicle chassis rolls and over-the-road field tests confirm the outstanding
performance capabilities for optimized synthetic engine oils in passenger car diesel as well as gasoline
engines, including severe turbocharged models...Vehicle testing under severe and extended drain
conditions demonstrates the performance reserve available with these synthetic engine oils. In addition
to excellent protection against critical high-temperature piston deposits, ring sticking, overall engine
cleanliness and wear, these synthetic oils offer fuel savings and superior low temperature fluidity."
In 1989 (over a decade ago!), Mechanical Engineering Transactions had this to say in its Synthetic
versus Mineral Fluids in Lubrication article: "Oil drain intervals in both industrial and automotive
applications can be extended typically by a factor of four due to the improved oxidative stability of
appropriately additized synthetics."
WHEN IS IT TOO LATE TO SWITCH?
Any vehicle under 8 to 10 years of age or 100,000 miles is a perfect candidate for a switch, as long as
the vehicle is mechanically sound. If, however, the vehicle is more than 8 to 10 years old or over
100,000 miles, there is some debate as to whether you should make the switch. Although the risk is
slight, older vehicles have been known to leak around seals and gaskets after the switch from
petroleum to synthetic oil.
Personally, I switched a 1992 Ford Escort over to synthetic oil after 120,000 miles of petroleum oil use
and saw nothing but increased fuel mileage and improved performance. But, others have not been so
happy with the results of switching a high mileage vehicle to synthetic.
It is my opinion that those who had problems are generally much more vocal about their experiences
than those who were happy with the switch. This is why we tend to hear so many horror stories about
older vehicles switching to synthetics. However, my experience has shown that for every person who
had a problem there are a hundred more who didn't. You'll have to make your own judgement regarding
the switch of an older vehicle to synthetic lubricants.
More information on this issue is in chapter 15.
IS THERE A SPECIAL PROCEDURE NECESSARY?
If your vehicle is under 20,000 miles, just remove the old filter, drain the old oil, install a new filter and
pour in the new oil. You're good to go.
However, if your vehicle is over 20,000 miles and you're switching from petroleum to synthetic oil, I
would first recommend that you perform an engine flush to remove any possible deposits within the
engine. This will minimize the risk of oil contamination after you make the switch which should help you
avoid the possibility of elevated oil consumption. There is a catch, though. Most engine flush products
on the market are comprised of very harsh chemicals that have the potential to actually damage engine
components.
For instance, many engine flush products contain kerosene. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pour
kerosene into my engine regardless of who told me to. And guess what? My opinion doesn't magically
change when that kerosene is repackaged in an impressive looking engine flush bottle that says it'll spit
shine my engine and have it running like new. It's still kerosene.
Just be careful what you use. If the bottle or can says anything about a chemical that you wouldn't pour
into your engine from any other container, don't buy it. There are at least two engine flush products
available that contain no kerosene. One is manufactured by Gold Eagle. The other by Amsoil. There
may be other companies that make similar engine flush products. This is the type I would recommend.
Most engine flush products are added to the old oil and then the engine is idled for a certain period of
time. Just make sure that your engine oil sump is already a half quart low to accommodate the added
volume of the engine flush. You don't want to over fill the crankcase.
One way to be sure you've got room for the engine flush is to install a new oil filter to do the flush. This
is a good idea anyway because you may end up with a much higher percentage of contaminants in the
oil than normal. Your old filter will already be saturated with dirt and debris. A new filter will be much
more likely to remove the contaminants from the oil as they are cleaned off of engine components by
the engine flush.
Once the car has been idled for the specified period of time, remove your filter and drain the oil while
the engine is still warm. This will remove the majority of contaminants from your engine. Then, install a
new oil filter and pour in the correct amount of synthetic oil based upon your owner's manual
recommendations.
This is a huge misconception about motor oil which needs to be addressed. The fact that your oil is
dark does not in any way mean your oil is necessarily ready for a change. Although it is possible that it
is overdue, this visual indicator alone is not sufficient to determine this.
A large percentage of the contaminants within your oil are smaller than one micron. These particles can
easily give your oil its dark color. However, since the clearances within your engine are generally
WILL OIL PRESSURE DROP AFTER THE SWITCH?
SO I NEED SPECIAL FILTRATION?
MY OIL IS DARK, SHOULD I CHANGE IT?
between 5 and 20 microns, these contaminants pass right by without causing any wear to engine
surfaces. Hence, there is no immediate need to change the oil due to these particles being present
within the oil.
Although oil analysis is the best way to determine whether an oil change is necessary, there are a
couple of other non-technical methods you can use to assess whether an oil change is necessary. Just
bear in mind that these are primitive in nature and should be verified with oil analysis.
Rub the oil between your fingers. Does it feel gritty? If so, your oil filter is probably either not doing a
very good job or is completely saturated. Change your oil and filter. Smell the oil. Does it smell burnt? If
so, your oil is beginning to break down under the high temperature conditions within your engine. It
needs to be changed.
Exposing the Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
The necessity of 3,000 mile oil changes is a myth that has been handed down for decades, and it's time
someone introduced the public to the possibility of extended oil drains. I guess, for you at least, that
someone is me.
I will tell you up front that I'm partial to synthetic oil, in case you hadn't already guessed. There are, of
course, certain instances when petroleum oil will be a better choice, but under most circumstances,
synthetic oils provide much more bang for your buck than petroleum oils do - you just have to know
how to use them to your benefit.
Now, if you're one who thinks that synthetics are just a marketing ploy to make more money off the
same bottle of oil, I hope you'll take the time to read through this information and judge for yourself.
You see, I believe the whole point of using a synthetic oil is peace of mind. I like knowing that I can trust
the oil in my car to protect my engine. I like knowing that 300,000 miles down the road, I won't
necessarily have to start looking for another vehicle (unless I'M ready). I also like knowing that when
20,000 miles rolls around, I still have a few thousand miles left to find time to change the oil.
Now, you're probably saying to yourself, "This guy is nuts! There's no way that an oil could possibly last
for 20,000 miles. And, if he's not nuts, he's some sort of snakeoil salesman."
Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to take a little time to, first of all, prove that I'm not in need of psychiatric
care. And secondly, I hope that you'll allow me to explain why I believe that a premium synthetic oil
CAN last for 20,000 miles or more.
By the way, you won't find any links from my book to sell you motor oil either - just in case you were still
wondering when I was going to get around to selling you some oil.
I used to be a pretty regular 3,000 mile oil changer. I had a very hard time believing that an oil could
possibly last longer than 5,000 or at best 7,000 miles. Changing at 3,000 miles was very safe and
"assured" me of no mechanical breakdowns.
When I started looking at synthetics, my perspective changed a little. I figured, if I was going to go out
and buy a $20,000 new car, I wanted to get the most for my money. Just protecting against breakdown
for a couple hundred thousand miles wasn't enough. I don't take my car to the mechanic and hope he
doesn't break it. I take my car to the mechanic so that he can make it better. The same can be true of
your oil.
Let's talk about oil changes first. If it's necessary to change oil every 3,000 to 5,000 miles, then so be it.
We should just do it, and accept that it's an integral part of keeping our vehicles from breaking down.
But, if it's not necessary, why do it? Just because our Daddy did? My Dad used to listen to 8-track
tapes too. Now we've got these nifty little CD's that sound clear as a bell and last pretty much forever.
Am I going to listen to 8-track tapes? Probably not.
I don't change my oil every 3,000 miles anymore either.


----------



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

The problem with examples is, there is no way to prove that the synthetic oil is the reason for good results. I have a work truck with over 400,000 miles, and a work van with 150,000 and neither has had engine work. They both have only used dino oil and no additives. The one with the lesser miles, uses no oil between changes and if the other one gets to 6,000, it will need a quart. Is this because of the dino oil, who knows. Certainly no way to prove it and I would never claim that is why they are still running. Engine life has as much to do with how they were built as it does oil.


----------



## Superrick (Nov 18, 2008)

If you use regular or synthetic and drive more than 3000 miles per change replace your filter. We cut ours open from time to time and the ones with 3500 or more miles have so much dirt in the filter media they are hour glass shaped from the suction of the pump (even though the oil still looks fairly clean).


----------



## DIYtestdummy (Jan 16, 2008)

Phew! I guess my point has already been made - use whatever you prefer, if the car came with synthetic keep using synthetic, seafoam is for the intake not the crankcase, etc. I will say use a quality filter every change and don't pay outrageous prices for marketing. Use one with an anti-drainback valve if your engine requires it. DON'T buy into Fram's marketing BS - they have some of the worst filters for higher prices than generic. Most all filters trap 98.9999% of particles, so don't pay more for a Royal Purple filter because of that.

Mobil 1 doesn't use wax - it's just oil. Pennzoil, Valvolene, Castrol, Quaker State have you pouring candle sludge into your engine. This is where you would benefit from flushing your engine with kerosene (or maybe even Seafoam $$$). I'm not sure just how good the recycled oil is or what's in it, so I can't recommend that. Synthetics and blends - it's all your preference, but I'd recommend Amsoil, Mobil1, or even Royal Purple if you can afford it.


----------

