# Odor sealing ideas for drywall



## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hello all,

After painting my living room recently an odor developed that smells musty at first, then becomes garbage-like if the windows are kept shut. 

After hearing great things about BIN Shellac primer, i applied three full coats ('Ultimate' version, not synthetic) to the walls and ceiling (drywall) without success in eliminating or reducing the odor.

Now since I do not own the place and cannot remove the walls, I have to plan the next step which could be:

1. Apply more BIN (But why would I believe that more would help?). 

2. Try an epoxy product as was suggested (stuff that seems to be used to seal concrete floors in garages).

3. Try Polyurethane. Called, "plastic in liquid form" the resulting layer might be more dense and solid since it's purpose is to protect against water damage. The idea is that paint primers (including BIN) leave small but molecularly large size holes when they dry that odor particles can pass through. Polyurethane or something called 'spar varnish' may perform better at this particular job, though they aren't designed to be applied to drywall.

If so, should I use oil or water based polyurethane or spar varnish? 

4. Give up and cover the place with some kind of plastic wall paper, especially if it can be painted over to become "part of the wall".

5. Something else?

Thank you all for helping me keep my sanity through this :vs_worry::vs_mad:


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

I can't imagine why paint, shellac, primer smells "musty." That has to be coming from somewhere else. Maybe inside the wall there are some dead rodents? Can you remove the baseboard and smell around where you removed it?

If there is something in the wall, I would call the landlord to come and take care of it. I would probably call him/her anyway. Because it's not the paint.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Definitely not the walls. One coat of B-I-N is sufficient to seal in odors. It's a great product for that purpose.

In my opinion, this is NOT your problem, but rather your landlord's problem. Obviously there's a moisture issue if you are experiencing a musty odor. I've worked in hundreds of apartments over the years and that is a common odor. Why? Because most multi-family buildings are built on slabs where moisture infiltration is common. Or, if the unit has a basement, maintenance on gutters and down spouts is minimal allowing water to work its' way into the unit. Call your landlord. Have him check for moisture intrusion. He's probably not going to be happy that you primed his walls with B-I-N. Now, he's going to have to pay someone to repaint the walls and YOU will be footing the bill.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

If there coats of Bin didn't block it, the odor is coming from somewhere else. Bin shellac forms a vapor barrier when a thick enough film is applied. Three applications, even if you put it on really thin, would surely have been enough to form a vapor barrier. 

Most paints do allow vapors to pass through the film like you stated, but not shellac. That's one of the great benefits of using it in certain situations like smoke damage. 

I wouldn't bother with trying other coatings, you've already tried the best option and it didn't work. Maybe start looking for other places the odor could be coming from. It's highly unlikely it's coming through walls with three coats of Bin.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks for all your feedback.

As an experiment I made a small cut with a boxcutter in one wall where I could tap and hear that the paint wasn't adhered so well. Then I used a putty knife to chip away the paint on about a 1 foot x 1 foot area. 

The pungent odor that projected from there was about 10 times worse and I could smell it across the room.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

I haven't got a clue what you're smelling, but it's not paint/B-I-N primer. 

Could it be that the prior occupant was a heavy smoker? And, what you are smelling is the poor cover up with probably a cheap paint between tenants? That's the ONLY thing I can think of. Stale, nasty cigarette smell, is definitely pungent....


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

Follow up.... if the previous tenant WAS a heavy smoker, then an Ozone machine should have been run in the property for a couple of days neutralizing the smoke smell, then B-I-N primer used everywhere, prior to painting and the carpet fully shampooed.

The more I think about it, I bet that's what you are smelling. The nasty remnants of a smoker or three....


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

stevew700 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> After painting my living room recently an odor developed that smells musty at first, then becomes garbage-like if the windows are kept shut.
> 
> ...


Steve,

I'm going to be making a lot of assumptions here, but based on the way you've described both the odor, and it's progression, I think you cannot look past a common bacterial attack on the paint itself...It's not that uncommon, especially with less expensive (apartment grade) or low-to-zero VOC paints. If it is the paint, you should be able to detect a faint odor from the bucket itself, possibly less pungent than what you're experiencing on the walls...you can have the paint tested by a number of sources, including the paint manufacturer, to determine if there is a bacterial attack, and what kind of bacteria it is...I believe you can buy home test kits for microbial attack from sources on-line, look at companies like Aqua-Tools.com, or Thor, for more info. 

Paints contain many organic components that provide a hefty food source for bacteria - as bacteria colonizes and grows, the affect often starts, and is described, as a "musty" smell, progressing on to what people describe as rotted garbage, swamp gas, methane, death, rotting flesh, dog vomit - you get the picture. This bacterial by-product is usually harmless, other than the offensive smell - and is often the same bacteria that you smell with spoiled milk, rotten potatoes, rotten eggs, etc. - unfortunately, you can't throw your walls out in the trash as you do a carton of spoiled milk.

Bacteria is like any other living organism - it requires oxygen and a food source to exist. Once either, or preferably both, has been removed - the microbes can no longer survive. BIN Primer is often one step in a bacterial colony mitigation process, but not necessarily the first step. A bacteria problem can be exacerbated by painting over the colony, especially with latex products - but that should be considered only as a minor barrier resolving the problem. I would recommend that before doing anything else, you clean the entire, affected, surface with a no-rinse bacteria killing solution, such as Lysol (make sure it's the no-rinse type). I'd recommend the product be applied, to the point of saturation, to the surface by a pump-up garden sprayer (not by brush or roller). Allow solution to dry thoroughly, then re-apply 24 hours later...NOTE: Lysol is very effective in killing bacteria - if this is a fungal attack, a better solution would be to spray with a bleach and vinegar solution instead. (During either process, fresh flowing air never hurts). 

With either solution, the bacteria (or fungus, though I'm betting on bacteria), closest to the surface will be most affected. What may have been painted over is harder to reach by penetration, as much of the solution will be neutralized by the time is takes to penetrate the layer(s) of paint. That's why I recommend 2 apps of the solution with a day in between.

Next - BINS. I believe either BINS, shellac or synthetic, will work - but I feel more confident with BIN Shellac. As JMays stated, BIN creates a moisture barrier and is a very impervious film. Moisture is not as much of an issue here as is an oxygen barrier, but in the same sense, BIN seals a surface from oxygen penetrating a porous surface as well as prevents moisture, in the form of vapor, from penetrating or being released from the surface. Again, for best results, I'd recommend that BIN be applied by spray (low pressure) to the surface (not by brush or roller), and allowed to dry overnight. I would also recommend a second application be applied in the same manner 24 hours later. 

Next, I'd recommend painting the surface with a 100% acrylic latex coating (2 coats minimum), as high grade acrylics really don't provide much of a food source for bacterial growth. A high quality acrylic paint containing Micro-ban would even be better as Microban will not allow for colonization to occur onto a surface treated with it.

Next - wait. You may not notice immediate results. There may be one last gasp from the colony to survive, but in this procedure - you have (1) killed much of the colony with the Lysol, (or plant life with bleach & vinegar)...(2) you have shut off the oxygen supply with 2 apps of BIN Shellac...and (3) you have coated the surface with a disruptive coating (Microban) that provides 0 to very little food source for continued sustenance of any surviving remnants of the colony. In a few days, with plenty of fresh moving air, you should notice a significant difference, and your room should smell fresh again.

I wish you luck in your endeavor, and I hope this info is more helpful than confusing. Let us know how this situation ends up.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thank you.

Along one wall and the ceiling I can tap and hear that I get a hollow sound, indicating that the paint is not adhered well, and this is the case. Should I cut through and peel off the paint across the entire surface with a putty knife, which can be done, or do leave it alone?

This would allow me to apply the Lysol/bleach directly on the offensive smelling wall. 

However I would be releasing the odor in a more foul form. I can say that the paint layers including 3 layers of BIN on it does help to reduce the intensity of the odor. But perhaps I need good contact for a sealer to work properly.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollow sound doesn't mean the paint didn't adhere it means there is a hollow cavity behind the drywall. A blister or paint peeling indicates adhesion problems.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Let me elaborate.

While there aren't any visible problems with the paint, I can still tap with my fingernail and hear such a slight sound that I know I'm only tapping on paint, not on the wall. In these areas, I can cut the paint with a boxcutter, then break in with a putty knife and peel the paint from the wall without great effort.

Other areas, I tap and it's a harder more substantial sound indicating that I'm tapping both the paint and the wall as one object.

Wondering what to do in the first case.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

Hey RNP..... that was one of the most thorough posts I've seen in a long, LONG time. Not being a painting pro, I would have never known about the bacteria issue. It was an incredible amount of info and probably exactly the problem the OP is having. 

Thanks for sharing.

:thumbsup:


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Really, really need a picture of your situation, preferably at an angle so we can see if it's actually the paint bubbling or something else. 

To be perfectly honest, and to reiterate what I said before, this IS NOT your problem. This is something to be handled by your landlord. He owns the property and any damage you do to the walls even if it's done with good intentions is going to be your responsibility to remedy. At least call the guy. I'm sure he has a maintenance man who may know the possible issues involved that may be causing the odor.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

If the paint is not adhered then it has to come off. To put something else on top of it will not stick to loose paint. When you cut the paint off is just the paint coming off or is the primer coming off too.

Not to jump on you but 3 coats of Bin then paint that won't stick. When the landlord finds out you may have to bite the bullet on this one.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thank you.

I was going to call him, but have to clean up paint drops from the floor first. I cover every inch with plastic sheeting, but it still manages to get through, probably due to sticky shoes pulling up the sheets while working.

As an experiment yesterday I sanded a small area of the wall and some B-I-N residue was stuck to my sandpaper. It smells like fresh B-I-N (solvent). It's was applied 1 week ago. Do you suppose I have an issue of paint unable to fully dry? I suppose moist paint would make a nice home for bacteria.


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## stevew700 (Sep 23, 2015)

ToolSeeker said:


> If the paint is not adhered then it has to come off. To put something else on top of it will not stick to loose paint. When you cut the paint off is just the paint coming off or is the primer coming off too.


The wall looks perfect. I'm just saying I am able to break into it (all layers of paint/primer about 1mm thick) and scrape it off fairly easily with putty knife. It exposes a chalky white surface of the wall which is foul smelling. 

I can probably peel the paint off the entire wall, and apply the Lysol directly, but not sure if its a good idea.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm calling BS on this thread.
No pics, so no way to get an idea of what's going on.
Lysol is not going to solve this issue.

Calling the landlord who owns the place, is the place to start. This thread needs locked up.


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> I'm calling BS on this thread.
> No pics, so no way to get an idea of what's going on.
> Lysol is not going to solve this issue.
> 
> Calling the landlord who owns the place, is the place to start. This thread needs locked up.


Isn't this the third version of this thread on here and one on PT?


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Might sound like a joke to some, but this sounds like some chinese drywall that didn't get rectified properly.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

klaatu said:


> Might sound like a joke to some, but this sounds like some chinese drywall that didn't get rectified properly.



Oh boy, I didn't think of that. That would be BAD.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> Oh boy, I didn't think of that. That would be BAD.


Yup. And if anyone would NOT rectify it, it would be someone who used it in a rental.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

klaatu said:


> Might sound like a joke to some, but this sounds like some chinese drywall that didn't get rectified properly.


Agreed, but how would anyone know where the problem lies if the OP won't contact his landlord to have things checked out! It boggles my mind that a renter is taking things on without the faintest clue.........he doesn't own the property yet is making drastic alterations to the walls. Hope he thoroughly read the rental agreement, because this could be cause for eviction, or, at the very least, paying for those aforementioned alterations.:surprise:


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## Fenwayhhh (Mar 22, 2017)

How old is house and was there wallpaper?


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