# Small roaches



## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

Found two small roaches, maybe half an inch long, brown things instead of the big ass black things. One in the kitchen sink when I left a plate for 3 days--the plate was rinsed and had standing water, it died in the water. One stuck to a piece of packing tape.

I try to keep food out of the house. Don't let it sit in the trash can for days on end, but I don't produce a lot of trash--I think I need a solution for immediate disposal of food outside. So I'm not feeding them.

Dad keeps telling me that when I redo the floors I need to spray roach poison all along the baseboards, behind the cabinets, and even in the cabinets where I'm going to store tableware and food. I don't want to nuke my house with toxic chemicals--it's poison, it's toxic, it's there to poison small animals to death and I don't want it in my house and around my food. I am a great fan of multi-layer security but in this case I'd rather skip the global poisoning layer.

What are my alternatives? I assume eliminating standing water indoors and keeping any food out of reach are primary global strategies.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

bluefoxicy said:


> I don't want to nuke my house with toxic chemicals--it's poison, it's toxic, it's there to poison small animals to death


No way youre gonna do that to a house cat/dog/even gerbil. It is NOT there to poison those mammals. A roach weighs a fraction of those furry pets, so no way in heaven it can be toxic/deadly to them. Just toxic to insects that weigh a fraction of an ounce.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

of course, spray as directed with proper concentration.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.ehow.com/how_8449054_keep-roaches-away-naturally.html


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Remember....small roaches grow into big roaches....

Right now, they are looking for warm places.....Everyone on our street has seen a big increase in sightings.....so far, we have found the sticky traps to work well along with Borax powder.


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## Hardway (Dec 28, 2011)

Ortho Home Defense!


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## jmd87 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have (possibly had?) a roach problem in a home we just purchased.... I tried DIY treating with baits, boric acid, gels & sticky pads. They all worked marginally with no clear winner.

I had an exterminator come 2 weeks ago to spray the interior & exterior perimeters all at once. I have 2 pups & a pregnant wife, and the chemicals they use is considered safe for both. Noticed immediate results but still have a stray roach every 1-3 days around kitchen sink. 

You need to get control of this situation before they start laying eggs, which obviously happened to me. Call an exterminator. It's considered safer than DIY chemicals as well.


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

No dogs or cats or children or wives, just I like to work a certain way.

For me it's a matter of reduction of toxins. I don't mind short-term toxins that don't bio-accumulate. Consider cleaners, for example: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate will make you sick if ingested, but there's no long-term harm and if you stop drinking the detergent you stop being sick. Simple Green is poisonous, but it's labeled "non-toxic" because you're not going to have any problems without heavy, _continuous_ exposure. These are fine.

By contrast, it's been shown that children and adults have HIGH concentrations of PBDEs in their blood specifically from the flame retardants used in bedding. All flame retardants used in bedding have been questioned, and are slowly being banned--this is causing some difficulty with the EU and the US CPSC. These chemicals bio-accumulate over time and cause mental development problems (hence the slow banning). You need a prescription to buy bedding without flame retardants; most doctors will write one upon request, no questions asked.

I'm one to haggle over each little chemical exposure until I determine risk versus reward. How much exposure, how short- or long-term, severity of toxicity, bio-accumulation, and effectiveness. I want to cut out the things it makes sense to cut out--that doesn't mean it's always obvious, and it doesn't mean that everything comes whole-sale. In this case, maybe I should get an exterminator to apply chemicals; maybe those chemicals dissipate in a month or three, and after that I can manage the reduced population easily by alternate means.


Because of this, I naturally bias toward anything less toxic. I'll strongly prefer toxins that don't bioaccumulate--for example, Simple Green isn't the kind of thing you want to inhale in high concentration every day, but two or three days of fresh air clears it out, which makes it more attractive than any cleaner that emits toxic fumes that bioaccumulate on the long term or cause more long-term damage.

On the other hand, if the insecticide of choice is pyrethrin, I guess that's not a problem. Additives are an issue--like PBOs. For example, Bonide 857 is marketed as a safe, natural Pyrethin insecticide ... it's 1% Pyrethin and 10% PBO. PBO negatively affects children's mental development when the mother is exposed during pregnancy--the risk window is minimal.

Things like permethrin are toxic to humans in a big way, though, and also popular because they're synthetic. In this case synthetic means less expensive--you can synthesize it in lab rather than collecting, processing, and refining from plants that have to be grown first. Unfortunately it's not molecularly identical, and this form bypasses protection mechanisms that help metabolize the poison away, so its toxic actions apply to mammals.

I guess something like Bonide 857 works within my stringent requirements and fits a balanced risk model where elevated effectiveness is desirable. I hear good things about baking soda for roaches in particular, but this stuff has a much wider effect (many more insects affected).


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## jmd87 (Nov 5, 2012)

I understand your concerns, so I suggest calling an exterminator & requesting an MSDS to make your decision.

I will reiterate: Get a hold of this situation now, or else you'll bio-accumulate roaches... :laughing: 


Sounds like you may have German roaches, and they're a tough bunch to get rid of.


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

jmd87 said:


> I understand your concerns, so I suggest calling an exterminator & requesting an MSDS to make your decision.
> 
> I will reiterate: Get a hold of this situation now, or else you'll bio-accumulate roaches... :laughing:
> 
> ...


MSDS makes sense.

German roaches? I don't have any cabbage?


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

OK, good points. Get the msds and go to the section on toxicity (you probably already know about that). LD 50's, rat/mouse/rabbit, etc etc etc. Also, mutagenic effects area.

Still, no need to over analyze the roach thing. You only spray 1X a year (more, and youre using the wrong chemical). Germans are the worst, like posted above by fellow member.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Any human body living in our "modern" world has already about 4000 different chemical compounds in the body/blood. A wiff of second hand smoke from a stinkin cigarette from a tobacco addict offers about 3000 right there (including arsenic, cadmium, lead, nitrosamines- also from well done bacon, benzene, vinyls from the filter, and pesticide residues from the sprays they put on tobacco). . Then, sitting in trafic at a red light- another 200. we only got 800 to go and its not hard to aquire in our polluted environment. (vinyls from our shower curtains, etc etc etc.........)


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## jmd87 (Nov 5, 2012)

noquacks said:


> ...also from well done bacon ...)


 Don't ruin bacon for me please!


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## Zeebugman (Dec 19, 2012)

*Roaches*

The consensus here, I am generally in agreement. Diatamaceous earth is FAR better than any boric acid. Use it with a bulb duster LIGHTLY. It works by abrading the exoskeleton of insects causing dehydration...a dessicant that will be transferred to others in the colony. Boric acid is toxic to humans, animals and fish so it is generally not recommended for use around children or pets. DE is inert.

Refrain from using spray products if at all possible. Most DIYers will use way too much. Plus making baits MUCH less effictive. 

If you can find MAXFORCE GEL (actually a paste in a "syringe" applicator), or another gel that contains FIPRONIL and follow the directions for crack and crevice application. Many small beads are better than fewer large "goops". The delayed mortality allows the product to remain effective to roaches that haven't eaten it. Roaches eat roach feces and are cannalbalistic.

Gentrol is a restricted product in the US but if you can get it where you are, use it in conjunction with the others. IT WORKS!

I would suggest finding a reputable exterminating service that supports Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Most sell their products to the public is diluted form, and are free with their advice.

Good Luck!
~Z

PS - The Label is the LAW...and any pest control company will supply you with both the label and the MSDS sheets.


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

Zeebugman said:


> I would suggest finding a reputable exterminating service that supports Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Most sell their products to the public is diluted form, and are free with their advice.


This sounds interesting. I like layered approaches. I'm going to be working out all the cracks and entrances and sealing them up, though I'm trying to figure out how air gets into the house--can't seal the whole thing, I'd die in there. Or need to get a houseplant. Right now I'm focused on the weather stripping around the front and back doors--it's correct and proper, but light and air come in around the door, especially around the corners. Insects could come through that.

I'm not sure how to apply diatomaceous earth. I'm gonna rid myself of all the carpet, eventually. I've heard it's super-effective, though.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Zeebugman said:


> The consensus here, I am generally in agreement. Diatamaceous earth is FAR better than any boric acid. Use it with a bulb duster LIGHTLY. It works by abrading the exoskeleton of insects causing dehydration...a dessicant that will be transferred to others in the colony. Boric acid is toxic to humans, animals and fish so it is generally not recommended for use around children or pets. DE is inert.


This is an example of what I mean by my below "signature".....

Why is DE FAR safer than boric? Also, just cuz something is "inert" doesnt make it non haz. Remember asbestos?? That too is "inert". See what I mean? 

DE is dangerous as he++ if not used with proper safety breathing aparatus. It is extremely sharp crystalline silica (kinda like tiny glass shards), and breathing this into your lungs is asking for big trouble.

Boric toxic? Why? It is in every plant cell wall. Plants cant live without it, and we eat boron every day (unless ones diet is french fries, coka cola, potato chips, donuts, and ring dings). We breathe is every time we wash our clothes with TWENTY MULE TEAM BORAX. bORIC IS NOT WHAT iD CALL TOXIC. 

I use DE. Be careful.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

If all else fails....go natural.....

Stand in the room with the lights out...don't move....after a short time...turn on the lights....if you see one...smack with a new paper....turn off the lights....repeat as necessary.....

When done....flush the smashed buggers.....put the newspaper in the recycling bin....no chemicals used.


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

ddawg16 said:


> If all else fails....go natural.....
> 
> Stand in the room with the lights out...don't move....after a short time...turn on the lights....if you see one...smack with a new paper....turn off the lights....repeat as necessary.....
> 
> When done....flush the smashed buggers.....put the newspaper in the recycling bin....no chemicals used.


Newspaper is made out of cellulose polymer and ink.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

bluefoxicy said:


> Newspaper is made out of cellulose polymer and ink.


The cellulose comes from trees....inks, most common source is Carbon...with the most common carrier being soybean oil.....

And salt is made of Sodium and Cloride NaCl.......kind of hard to remove all chemicals from your life.......

Better watch how much Dihydrogen Monoxide you drink in your water...


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Everyone please be careful..... living causes death. It's a proven fact!!!!!! :laughing:
Diatomaceous earth is simply one celled animals from the ocean that has been used for many years as the main ingredient in Comet and Ajax cleansers.... Contrary to old Cheech and Chong movies, you don't want to snort either of those.

DM


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

ddawg16 said:


> T.......kind of hard to remove all chemicals from your life.......


Right- My old physics prof in college said once, whilst smoking his pipe, wearing a full beard, "if the world blew up tomorrow, thered be nothing left but physics and chemistry".......


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> . living causes death.
> DM


Yes, Danger, but remember- dying aint much of a living.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

How does the phrase go?

Only two things in life are guaranteed, Taxes and Death....


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## paulsmith544 (Dec 21, 2012)

You should spray the chemicals available easily in the market. they are not much expensive but they are effective enough.


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## FoundationPest (Feb 5, 2013)

Chemicals can be safe if used appropriately. The risk of doing DIY pest control is that many people don't apply the chemicals correctly or use too much of the product. 

Keeping your family safe and roach free is something worth hiring a professional to do. :thumbup:


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## Tenthplanet (Sep 20, 2012)

Hey guys, here's a question... Define what you mean by small roaches, because size has very little to do with what type of pesticide you decide to use in ..... Case in point, Some cockroach breeds are more susceptible to insecticidal dust while others can be eliminated by using baited traps or aerosol sprays.


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## Donald32 (Mar 1, 2013)

You need a cocroach killer spray and spray directly on them with great concentration so that they will die on the spot with its reaction. And also spray on that plce where you see them.


Brisbane Pest Treatment


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