# How perfect does the mud need to be?



## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

My strategy as I was putting mud up was gong through with a shop lamp to try to texture light it and find all the defects. I've been going through this room about a month now and thought I was ready for paint. As soon as I started with the primer I could see more imperfections revealing themselves with the sheen of the primer before it drys. 
Of course now that I have primer on the wall sanding gets more difficult. Am I overdoing it and can I expect the next coat of primer and two coats of paint to hide some of these newly found imperfections? Mudding has got to be the most difficult to get perfect and unfulfilling thing I've done on house so far.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> As soon as I started with the primer I could see more imperfections revealing themselves


Yep, that's the way it works - more often than not, paint makes imperfections more visible, not less so. More sanding and/or more mud is likely needed.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Not the answer I was hoping for but thanks.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

What sheen are you using on the finish coat? Primer coats can be like a semi gloss, so every little defect shows. But most people finish with satin or even flat, which is a little more forgiving. 

Looking for defects from 16 to 20" with a spot light on it will certainly find them. But stand back to 4' under normal lighting conditions. You may be being overly critical.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> Of course now that I have primer on the wall sanding gets more difficult.


Yes, makes you appreciate the skill of a good drywall finisher doesn't it?. 

Rather than trying to sand out the imperfections, mix up a pan of slightly thinned mud and cover the imperfections. Then you can sand lightly and re prime.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

That's what I ended up doing. I was proud of my mudding skills until I started painting. I might just finish the two rooms that I'm doing and hire out the rest. Mudding is not enjoyable to me.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

The old saying applies here, practice makes perfect, well maybe not perfect, but the more you do the better you get. Owning a house can involve a lot of drywall work so it is an important skill to hone. Today we have instructions all over the internet and some good pros right here.

From your post you aren't that far from where you would be happy. I remember one section of a wall where there used to be a walk through. Well, after the drywall was up, the walk through was still there. Not wanting to tear out the whole area I thinned some mud and did a little plastering to level it all out and it worked. And it made me happy.

IMO, you are 'maybe' too critical. I bet it really looks pretty good.

Bud
PS, nothing wrong with a light skim after the primer.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

If you want to make your drywall mud to be smooth add some finish Lime to the mud , use Ivory or Snowdrift type S it will increase the Plasticity & make the finish very smooth.


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

2 words - knockdown texture :smile:


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Just the other day, I had to patch a 6x8 inch hole in a coop. The owner, a 62 year old woman told me that all I had to do was install the piece of sheet rock & she would do the spackle & tape. I smiled & said, ok but it takes years to prefect those skills. I did the first coat & explained "feathering" to make it look even since the new piece didn't quite lie flush since there was brick behind dry wall. A 3/8" piece of drywall would have been perfect but that's another thing that one learns over the years.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Primer will especially highlight any defects in the finish while the primer is wet. I try to remember where those areas are and go over them after the primer dries.


There is no such thing as a perfect drywall job or paint job. The best we can do is give the illusion of a perfect job. Do the best you can and the odds are after you are done and concentrating on the next project you'll soon forget about any minor defects.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

If the mud is visible because it is higher than the rest of the drywall, you definitely have to fix that. But keep in mind that sometimes the mud location is visible simply because the texture of the mud is smoother than the surrounding drywall paper. Two coats of paint would normally blend the texture.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Thanks for listening; Blitch and Moan = 'OFF'. 
I might be too critical. I'm looking at the wall inches away from it using a sweeping spot light or single bulb shop light. Up until now, I didn't need to make any excuses for the quality of my work as my house is coming out really nice... which is what drives me crazy with mudding, I don't seem to have a knack for it. With zero experience, I don't know what is acceptable; maybe the smoothness of the walls is fine. Before I move on to the next room, I'm going to fully finish the walls on this one room to see what I can get away with.
In any case, I've discovered that mudding after primer is easier than I expected and the mud dries really fast.


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## Sdiver2489 (Jan 14, 2013)

From my experience...it has to be perfect. I spent forever on mine and there is still a flaw or two. The ones that I thought I would notice and bother me I fixed by applying more mud over top of the paint and that was fine. Try not to drive yourself crazy...chances are you won't have lighting that is perfectly aligned to bring out the flaw...fix the ones that you do.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> I'm looking at the wall inches away from it using a sweeping spot light or single bulb shop light.


I was taught to use touch too. Run your fingers over the patch. You'll know immediately where it needs to be fixed.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Give it some time, and it will look better! As we age our eye sight deteriorates. Things I used to fuss over aren't looking so bad now.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> I was taught to use touch too. Run your fingers over the patch. You'll know immediately where it needs to be fixed.



The neatest compliment on my painting I ever got was from a blind man. I fixed the defects on the hallway walls before painting. He had to relearn how to get to his bed rm because he used the feel of those defects to tell him where he was in relationship to his bed rm door.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Where I'm at right now, is a final light sand and another coat of primer. By touch it was fine, it's the texture lighting that reveals the imperfections.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

You are doing something wrong. Did you hang the drywall horizontally so the long edges (Cupped) are running horizontally, and did you buy big enough sheets to span the wall on which you are installing the sheets? If you are using premixed mud, did you add a full cup of warm water to the mud and paddle mix it till you got a creamy consistency? Did you use bugle head screws and fasten to the studs with 2 fasteners spaced about 3/4 of an inch apart at each location? I use the fiberglass mesh tape made for hardyboard on my long factory seams. it is sticky back so you just tape the joint dry, then you apply mud with a 6 inch knife, and bed it in real good. 2 more coats with a 10 inch knife and you should be good. I had Goldblatt tools for about 40 years, and loved them. They had wood handles and fit my hand perfectly, now you cant get wood handles any more. Well good luck to you.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Sticky tape [fiberglass mesh] works best if you cover it with a setting compound. When used with just regular premixed joint compound it has a bad track record [tends to crack] I've always put my screws/nails a couple of inches apart. The main thing is where you can cover both with one knife full of mud. While I almost always thin my mud slightly I don't think I've ever used warm water - just tap water.


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## Timborooni (Apr 16, 2011)

Most often a good rule to go by is the ol' _less is more_. Or should I say, less mud per coat. Thin multiple coats require less sanding. Lots of sanding can result in high/low spots also, and result in excessive fussing of the raw drywall. You'll feel the fuss once the primer is dry. No big deal, the fuss can be knocked down by sanding after primed.

The good news? Now that it is primed it will be easier to see the flaws. You can go through and lightly/circle the bad spots with a pencil. Shine a light and look across the wall to better see the flaws. Go through and lightly skim those areas. After the mud dries, lightly sand those areas and spot prime using the same method you used for the first coat of primer. In other words, it's not a good idea to spot prime in the middle of a rolled wall using a brush, as brush marks might telegraph through the final coat of paint. Feather the spot primed areas in a circular motion, a square could/will catch the eye should the spot prime create a less than even spot prime which could later telegraph through the final coat.

You're almost there!


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

195795 said:


> 2 words - knockdown texture :smile:



I'm with the above...in a DIY environment. For an untexured wall, doing a level 5 mud finish is very difficult for less experienced non-professional mud man.

That's exactly why almost all production work uses a texture finish. Knockdown is a little heavy, but a light orange peel will hide most all imperfections.

If you have alot of rooms to do, and if you have a good compresssor, a texture gun is only 50-60 bucks.... and after learning, a lot easier than trying for a level 5 finish.

There is the chance you are being over critical, and once you get two coats of a flat or egg shell on, your imperfections may disappear.

Good luck


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

mark sr said:


> Sticky tape [fiberglass mesh] works best if you cover it with a setting compound. When used with just regular premixed joint compound it has a bad track record [tends to crack] I've always put my screws/nails a couple of inches apart. The main thing is where you can cover both with one knife full of mud. While I almost always thin my mud slightly I don't think I've ever used warm water - just tap water.



Hi Mark, the reason for having the screws close together is to increase the "Cone of Influence" The same applies to anchor bolts in concrete. So are you saying that premixed joint compound shrinks after application? How about re tempering, like you are supposed to do with repointing mortar? Ive not had this problem, but then I usually end up re-tempering. Warm water? Its what I was told by one of the best drywall guys Ive ever seen work, but Im sure regular temp will work. Warm just makes the mud creamy faster I guess. Thanks for the info.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> So are you saying that premixed joint compound shrinks after application? How about re tempering, like you are supposed to do with repointing mortar?



All I know is mesh tape has a bad track record when used solely with premixed j/c. I've seen countless cracks when sticky tape was used with the premix. It seems to do a lot better when covered with a setting compound which dries a lot harder than the premix.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

jagans said:


> Hi Mark, the reason for having the screws close together is to increase the "Cone of Influence" The same applies to anchor bolts in concrete. So are you saying that premixed joint compound shrinks after application? How about re tempering, like you are supposed to do with repointing mortar? Ive not had this problem, but then I usually end up re-tempering. Warm water? Its what I was told by one of the best drywall guys Ive ever seen work, but Im sure regular temp will work. Warm just makes the mud creamy faster I guess. Thanks for the info.



Premixed joint compound will shrink during the drying period. Mortar sets by rehydration & yes you can temper mortar. Adding warm water to a setting compound will cause a faster set.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

It was a steep learning curve but once I learned that I need to learn how to finish drywall, I narrowed my scope from finishing the entire second floor at once to only finishing one room all the way to paint. What I learned is it's much easier to find and fix the drywall finish after a coat of primer. Also some minor imperfections get filled in by the time the final coat of paint is applied. Experience is king with drywall finishing.


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