# Old Bathroom Tile Floor - What to do?



## doublerc (Jul 1, 2011)

I have an old tile floor in my bathroom that appears to be original to the house (maybe 50's-60's or earlier). I have already taken up the toilet, and I am removing the vanity to be updated. Once the vanity is out, I am going to have the wall tiles resurfaced to white because right now they are an ugly yellow and blue color scheme.

I look at this tile floor and It is the only thing that won't match up with everything else once i'm done. The space is about 4'x8'. The tile is in okay condition and is somewhat level. I will say that even the cracked parts of the tile are not coming up, everything is staying in place.

I am VERY interested in doing tile over tile, using some nice modern tiles that would be 12"x12". I wouldn't have to worry about adjusting the door height or anything else and I can extend the height of the toilet flange no problem. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations for bringing this floor up to date/giving it a fresh look with my other updates?


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## DesignEye (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm sure it's possible but if it were my bathroom I scrape off the old tiles. For me it's piece of mind. As far as tiling over I'm sure someone more qualified will chime in, but you may need to really scuff up the old tile to get good adhesion when you thinset over them.


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## GB Greg (Oct 14, 2010)

If it's my bathroom, I'm tiling over what's there. Tap around and find any loose tiles, pull those up and fill. Then use a 2 part thinset to stick the new tiles. That's thin-set + acrylic. Yes, skuff it up with a stone really good.

Those tiles are porcelain. There's a very good chance they are stuck with portland cement to a 3-6" thick concrete bed. It was done the same way shower floors are done. A dry (ish) mix of portland and sand is beat in to the floor with chicken wire or some other reinforcing, screeded flat, then the tiles are stuck to that while the "mud" is still damp with a heavy sprinkle of portland cement. Then a block and a mallet were used to beat the tile into the mud base. 

There's not a better underlayment than what's already there IMHO. Using the 2-part thinset will give a superior bond and remain flexible should there be any cracks that concern you.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

When using a "two-part" thinset it is important that you use an "unmodified thinset" with the appropriate additive and don't use water to mix the thinset.

I too would be willing to bet that tile installation is into a thick-bed of cement and I agree there is nothing better. To try to remove that tile would likely open a huge bag of worms that you won't want to deal with. You could easily find yourself adding new floor joists and new subfloor before you could do any tile.


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## doublerc (Jul 1, 2011)

GB Greg said:


> That's thin-set + acrylic. Yes, skuff it up with a stone really good.





Bud Cline said:


> When using a "two-part" thinset it is important that you use an "unmodified thinset" with the appropriate additive and don't use water to mix the thinset.


I was reading about this tile-over-tile procedure on other forums and people were readily talking smack about using a higher-quality thinset vs other kinds. All of this stuff looks the same to me. Does this work as the appropriate "unmodified thin-set"?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_3179-1295-0...entURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=mortar&page=2&facetInfo=

Would this be the correct "Acrylic" additive ?:

http://www.homedepot.com/Flooring/h...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053




GB Greg said:


> Yes, skuff it up with a stone really good.


 For the scuffing process would I use and actual "stone" or is this some type of rough block that I buy?

Lastly, other tiling forums were talking about how HD and Lowe's tiles are crap and blah blah blah, and not to use them. I guess they're referring to these tiles that I see for 97 cents? I thought they were nice.... I've attached a picture of the type that I like and i'm wondering what'll be best. a dollar per was sounding great, but if you guys advise against that, I won't be "cheap".

If there are recommendations, i'm open :yes: Thanks so much!


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

Your only talking about 32 sq ft. Stay away from box store tiles. Get good stuff you won't regret it. Cheap stuff scratches. dorf dude...


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## doublerc (Jul 1, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> Get good stuff you won't regret it.


shumaker, thanks for following up. I'm trying to get an idea of what the "good stuff" is. I'm not a tiler by trade so I don't know what type/ material/brand tile to go with that is considered better than the box store stuff. For instance, I was buying something else from a specialty floor/tile place, and I saw similar tiles there for 67 cents (even cheaper than box stores, yet maybe this could be some of the better tiles? i dont know). 

Some additional guidance please...


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

To scuff the tiles quickly and efficiently consider using a 4" angle grinder with 30 grit sand paper.

Mount two disks back to back.

The angle grinders are cheap and have many uses---cutting tile and metal and wire brushing rusty metal and dirty grills---Mike----


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## GB Greg (Oct 14, 2010)

Skuff it up: You can use a grinder, belt sander, or just about anything that will scratch the surface of the existing tile. Most tile stores, even Lowe's and HD have actual stones for this purpose. It's about half the size of a brick and has a handle on it. Make sure floor is clean by rubbing thoroughly. See "Rubbing Stone" here: http://www.kirkdirect.co.za/m-tools.html

Ditto Bud Cline: Unmodified Thinset plus Acrylic addative. No water. Most brands will perform the same in my experience.

I believe the quality of the tile is less important than the quality of application and picking the right material.
A couple of tips:
1- The darker the biscuit, the harder the ceramic. For floors, you want the hardest tile. Red clay biscuits are hard.
2- The lighter the biscuit, the softer the tile. Usually whites, creams and greys are intended as wall tiles and should not be used on floors.
3- Porcelain tiles are the best for floors. To tell porcelain from ceramic, usually the surface color is the same as the biscuit color. It has glass "ring" sound when tapped where ceramics have more of a high-pitch thud.
4- The size you select should be relative to the room size. Big rooms = big tiles / small rooms = small tiles. Something around a 6x6 or 8x8 would give the illusion that there is more floor than there really is.

Examples: 
Porcelain Tile. I used this exact tile in my kitchen, 12x12 on the floor and 6x6 on the counter top: http://www.lowes.com/pd_88541-34692-G3TG20_0__?productId=1103329&Ntt=porcelain+tile&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dporcelain%2Btile&facetInfo=

Wall tile: It's tough to tell from the picture, but this is a white biscuit wall tile: http://www.lowes.com/pd_239380-5676...r|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&facetInfo=Wall

Floor tile: The best photo I could find without too much effort: http://www.tilefloorheat.org/laying-bathroom-floor-tile-over-linoleum/ 


Like I said, quality of tile is less important that quality of application. I can put white wall tile on the floor and have it last years and years. And I have seen people put $14/sqft granite on the floor that has failed and come loose.

It's not rocket surgery though. Take your time and follow the instructions on the bags.

Good luck!


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## doublerc (Jul 1, 2011)

It looks like I'm going to go with a 12x12 porcelain tile,

Just wondering what type of space I should use between them?


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

I like a 3/16 grout line with a 12 inch tile but I'm no expert. It really is a matter of opinion. Keep in mind if the tile you choose has a bit of a beveled edge the grout line may look wider when you're done. 

FWIW, there multiple threads here from people who have just finished their tile job and regret the grout they used. So it is also not a bad idea to do a dummy board. Take a couple of pieces of your tile and glue them to a board (cardboard even) with the spacers you are considering using. This doesn't have to be done "right", just stick them in place somehow. Then mix a small amount of grout and apply it. Let dry. This will give you a better idea _before_ you do all that work if you are going to be happy with the spacing and grout choice.


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