# clean out cap pipe is stripped



## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

I had a very slow kitchen sink that got progressively worse in the last few weeks.

I finally had a chance to get to it. 

I had to take off the 2 inch clean out cap in the basement in order to clean out the lines. 

I bought a new cap, and now I find out that the old cap is corroded to the point that the metal pipe that it goes into has no threading left on it.

Is there a specialized piece or a trick to get this thing capped back off?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

One of the many reason that old steel pipe need to go and be replaced with PVC at some point.

There is no great way to do it, might try a few wraps of teflon tape and some Rector seal pipe dope.

Or an expanding test plug.
http://rectorseal.com/RectorSeal-T-Plus-2.php


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

joecaption said:


> One of the many reason that old steel pipe need to go and be replaced with PVC at some point.
> 
> There is no great way to do it, might try a few wraps of teflon tape and some Recto seal pipe dope.
> 
> Or an expanding test plug.


yep, I agree with you completely. 

I need this to get sealed up for a few months and then I will hopefully run new pipe all the way down. That is when I plan to do the new kitchen sink and I might as well do it all when I do it. Yuck.

I will now google expanding test plug to see what that is. 

Thank you.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0069QVTCM...e=asn&creative=395097&creativeASIN=B0069QVTCM


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

ok, I purchased one of those, seemed like it would work. 

It didn't really seal up very well, so i look closer and see that the pipe that the clean out is on is cracked.

To be honest, when I rooted out the drain line, I was shocked at how much **** is in there.

I need to rerun the drain line to the basement.

I've never done this before in a kitchen. 

I guess I will run 2 inch PVC and then tie it into the main drain in the basement.

Can the kitchen drain line go straight down through the floor? 

This one twists and turns and goes behind the cabinets and exits. 

I would much prefer to run the new line, connect it all up and then remove the old one. We only have one kitchen and having it out of commission for too long is a strain.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Many areas will require it to be replaced with same type of material unless you replace the vent all the way up into the attic/roof depending on where it ties in


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

plummen said:


> Many areas will require it to be replaced with same type of material unless you replace the vent all the way up into the attic/roof depending on where it ties in


Thanks for the tip. 

I have just realized this job is probably too big for me. 

I will research it tonight and call a plumber tomorrow, at least then I will know what I am talking about when I talk to them.

Thanks everyone.


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

If the section with the cleanout is cracked, can this section only be removed and replaced by a plumber?


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes,you can probably do it yourself with a good recip saw.
Just find an old ma-pa hardware store,many of them still have cast iron fittings stashed in the back.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

plummen said:


> Many areas will require it to be replaced with same type of material unless you replace the vent all the way up into the attic/roof depending on where it ties in


This is one of those rules I think they need to back off on. How ridiculous that someone can't patch a leaky pipe without replacing the entire thing.


Say you're in this situation and you have no money. You can scrape together enough to patch it, but not to replace the whole thing, which will likely require sheetrock repair and paint, etc, etc, etc. . . .

So option A : You decide to leave it. The city does a smoke test on the sewer lines and tells you that you have a broken line and it MUST be fixed. You then respond that you can't afford to do it properly. I wonder what they say to this.


Or option B : You patch the broken section of pipe, knowing full well that the pipe is possibly failing and bound to give you more problems down the road, and nobody ever knows anything about it but you.

:whistling2:


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

yes I agree with alan that pipe can and should be only repaired....they also make fernco caps of differant size to cap openings..use it on tee to cap off where plug was rusted in...


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Alan said:


> This is one of those rules I think they need to back off on. How ridiculous that someone can't patch a leaky pipe without replacing the entire thing.
> 
> 
> Say you're in this situation and you have no money. You can scrape together enough to patch it, but not to replace the whole thing, which will likely require sheetrock repair and paint, etc, etc, etc. . . .
> ...


 Weve both been down that road enough times over the years,theres plenty of ways to make things work that will last just as long as a repiping job.
The problem being that anytime you try and give somebody a tried and true low buck way of making something work till they have the time/money to make a permanent fix the powers that be come out of nowhere like the army of darkness and nail you to the nearest wall on here.
Personally Ive been nailed to enough walls on here so I try and play it safe! :laughing:


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

plummen said:


> Weve both been down that road enough times over the years,theres plenty of ways to make things work that will last just as long as a repiping job.
> The problem being that anytime you try and give somebody a tried and true low buck way of making something work till they have the time/money to make a permanent fix the powers that be come out of nowhere like the army of darkness and nail you to the nearest wall on here.
> Personally Ive been nailed to enough walls on here so I try and play it safe! :laughing:


 yes but thats why we have big shoulders...and we should come to each others defense..... no bashing...just loving...:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

I am going to take a picture when I am in the basement and then I have a couple of questions about this. 

Stay tuned! 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, it means more to me as a non-plumber than you know!


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

ben's plumbing said:


> yes but thats why we have big shoulders...and we should come to each others defense..... no bashing...just loving...:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


 Ive had enough spikes driven into my shoulders,its starting to hurt! :laughing:
Its really bad over on the home inspectors forum I check in on occasionally,Id be willing to bet the average 1st year apprentice in any trade has more real world experiance than most of them but they can recite the NEC and UPC really good without actually knowing the reason for any of the codes! :laughing:


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

This is the clean out. I ended up cleaning out the old threads with a small wire wheel and I was able to thread in the new cap just to gain the use of the kitchen sink with a minor drip from the cracked pipe as opposed to not using it for a few days.

Having said that, I used a lot of pipe compound hoping it would get help seal it, It doesn't leak from cap but there is a tiny leak from the pipe itself. 

I can't really photograph the crack so that you can see it, but it is right in the front underneath where the threads begin on the opening.

I don't fully understand these pipes, I don't really know how this clean out piece is joined?

Can anyone shed some light on this?


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

couldn't you just cut the cleanout section out and put in a PVC cleanout and connect it to the iron pipe on both sides with a fernco coupling? seems simple enough to me.


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

NitroNate said:


> couldn't you just cut the cleanout section out and put in a PVC cleanout and connect it to the iron pipe on both sides with a fernco coupling? seems simple enough to me.


That is what the DIY in me wants to do and has the ability to do, but I want to find out if there is a better solution that would actually be acceptable if I went to sell this house someday. 

If I were the buyer, I would look at that and it would indicate problems.


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

oldhouseguy said:


> That is what the DIY in me wants to do and has the ability to do, but I want to find out if there is a better solution that would actually be acceptable if I went to sell this house someday.
> 
> If I were the buyer, I would look at that and it would indicate problems.


hmmm, yeah i dunno. not that the DIY shows on HGTV are a good example, but i have seen them do this several times on older houses with iron pipe. i always thought fernco couplings met code for drainage pipes. granted, code may differ in different areas of the country so i'm not sure how this would hold up in a home inspection.


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

> I don't fully understand these pipes, I don't really know how this clean out piece is joined?
> Can anyone shed some light on this?


There is a rope like material (Okem)stuffed into the bell and molten lead is poured into the bell over it.
It was an art to watch the old timers making joints upt.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

My only concern would be that the stack may drop when you cut that out


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

I would cut the cast iron pipe above the floor. Use a PLAS x CI shielded fernco coupling to transition to PVC or ABS. Put in a new plastic clean out tee and run new pipe up to the vent located above the sink's drain tee. At that point, I'd reconnect to the existing vent. By doing it this way you've eliminated all the accessible drain pipe and replaced it with plastic. 
Your next issue is, how rotted is the cast iron at the slab? It can get pretty bad on kitchen lines and unfortunately it rots from the inside out so visual confirmation is next to impossible


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

Ravenworks said:


> There is a rope like material (Okem)stuffed into the bell and molten lead is poured into the bell over it.
> It was an art to watch the old timers making joints upt.



Just out of curiosity, lets say one of these old timers needed to remove that clean out piece, would the molten lead be chiseled out or would it be heated back up with a torch?

I have no idea of the temperature at which lead becomes molten again.


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> I would cut the cast iron pipe above the floor. Use a PLAS x CI shielded fernco coupling to transition to PVC or ABS. Put in a new plastic clean out tee and run new pipe up to the vent located above the sink's drain tee. At that point, I'd reconnect to the existing vent. By doing it this way you've eliminated all the accessible drain pipe and replaced it with plastic.
> Your next issue is, how rotted is the cast iron at the slab? It can get pretty bad on kitchen lines and unfortunately it rots from the inside out so visual confirmation is next to impossible


This sounds like a good idea assuming all would go well, but since it is me and I have Murphy's law strongly against me, I will need to think this through. But, as I said, a good idea.:thumbsup:


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

Evstarr said:


> My only concern would be that the stack may drop when you cut that out


If I go that route, I would have to secure it before I cut it, good thing you said that, because I wouldn't have without your warning.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

oldhouseguy said:


> Just out of curiosity, lets say one of these old timers needed to remove that clean out piece, would the molten lead be chiseled out or would it be heated back up with a torch?
> 
> I have no idea of the temperature at which lead becomes molten again.


The problem is that the joints are put together from the bottom up. You can't take one out of the middle without cutting something.

Normally I use a drill bit to drill a bunch of holes in the lead, and then a combination of a screwdriver, chisel, and pliers to get the leftover chunks out. But like I said, something has to be cut in order for the fitting to come out.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Since you can get at that clean out, it might be a good idea to have someone in to run a camera down that line before you start cutting into it. If its rotting away under ground you might want to know before you put a lot more work into it.


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

Evstarr said:


> Since you can get at that clean out, it might be a good idea to have someone in to run a camera down that line before you start cutting into it. If its rotting away under ground you might want to know before you put a lot more work into it.


Good idea. 

This pipe runs down a little bit more then it turns and runs about 4 feet more on a slope and then it enters the much larger pipe that goes straight down and out to the sewer I guess. I was able to run a drill powered cutting line through all the way to the large pipe and a lot of gunk came out. I then used a garden hose with the end cut off and flushed it out with water. I had a screen in place to catch most of the gunk and after about half an hour, the water ran clear. 

I am pretty convinced I got it cleaned out and the kitchen sink now runs faster than it ever has. 

I notice today that the cracked pipe has just barely a small leak which I still don't like, but to me the major "need to do it today" urgency has been replaced with "lets figure out the best way before I proceed."


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## Homerepairguy (Aug 1, 2010)

oldhouseguy said:


> I notice today that the cracked pipe has just barely a small leak which I still don't like, but to me the major "need to do it today" urgency has been replaced with "lets figure out the best way before I proceed."


To make a temporary repair for the leak until you have time to make a permanent repair, check this youtube video out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYFUlJaAVM

HRG


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

Homerepairguy said:


> To make a temporary repair for the leak until you have time to make a permanent repair, check this youtube video out:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYFUlJaAVM
> 
> HRG



Pretty cool... I think at the end of the video the kid flushing the toilet yells what sounds like, "the turd is coming up"

That made it worth watching all the way through, plus a helpful tip.

Thanks!


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## Amazingglazier (Dec 27, 2011)

If you fixed the problem with the cleanout threads, i'd clean around the tiny leak real good with a dremel tool or grinder and epoxy the leak, use a two part epoxy and mix it well, it should outlast the pipe. Clean an area about an inch around the leak to bare metal and you should be fine.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

oldhouseguy said:


> Just out of curiosity, lets say one of these old timers needed to remove that clean out piece, would the molten lead be chiseled out or would it be heated back up with a torch?
> 
> I have no idea of the temperature at which lead becomes molten again.


 I woulodnt bother trying to get the lead out of the fitting in that situation,id just cut the pipe above and below and use no-hub couplings to install new piece.
The pipes sit down inside the hubs,it would be tough to take apart without cutting,although I do know of a few ways to remove that fitting and retaining bottem hub its kind of risky if you dont do it every day. :laughing:


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