# Problem with toilet flange on top of tile floor



## wspev2244 (Sep 10, 2015)

I have an ALL PVC toilet flange that sits on top of my bathroom tile (or tile was run underneath the lip of flange) in this new home I moved into. The old toilet rocked and now the new toilet I bought does the same thing. I have placed the new toilet (dry fit for now without wax ring added) on top of flange and it looks like the thickness of the PVC flange is higher than the recess of my toilet and therefor makes the toilet not sit flush with the floor to begin with. Many threads I have read have plumbers who say the flange should sit on top of tile instead of flush with tile, however I am starting to think these particular plumbers may be using flanges that are PVC with the metal rings, which look to be less thick than the ALL PVC flanges (which is what I have). I know that this thick ALL PVC flange on top of my tile is causing the toilet to not be able to sit flush on the floor. (FYI...Previous toilets I have installed in my old house have had flanges flush with the tiled bathroom floors and I have never had a problem with leakage of water over the years using the wax rings with cone shaped plastic pieces in the middle when installing the toilets). My question is this to an experienced plumber.....Can I possibly unscrew the bolts to the ALL PVC flange from the tile and subfloor underneath and be able to lift the flange up some to get at the tile underneath and chisel that tile out so that I can reset that flange to sit lower so that the toilet will be able to sit on my bathroom floor without the flange interfering?


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## McSteve (Dec 8, 2009)

No way the flange should be high enough to cause a problem, regardless of the toilet used. After all, there still has to be a little space in there for the wax. Have you checked the floor around the flange with a straightedge to make sure it's flat?

You might just to stick some toilet shims under it to get it stable.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

The flange maybe glued in.?

Does the toilet sit flush on the floor without the flange.?

If nothing can be done...
Take a piece of plywood the same thickness as the flange.
Trace the outline of the toilet onto the plywood. Be sure to outline the bolt holes.
Cut the outline out.
Now in the proper spot cut an opening in the plywood big enough to go around the flange.
Place the plywood down and install the bolts. Yes install the bolts, use a washer and nut. this will hold everything in place including the bolts when installing the toilet.
Install toilet.
Then install a washer and nut for the toilet.


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## wspev2244 (Sep 10, 2015)

The toilet sits fine on the floor. Only when I put the toilet over the flange does it have space and rocks, and will not sit flat on tiled floor. The PVC flange is at least 1/2 inch thick and sits flat on top of the tile floor. The space underneath both my old toilet and new toilet is less than 1/2 inch, so yeah there isn't enough room under toilet to accommodate the flange let alone a wax ring.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Two likely problems----

First, the thick PVC flange----the other most likely problem---I bet that is a 3" drain and they use an inside glued flange---those are almost always a mistake--

Is this a wood frame floor? Do you have access below? 

More info needed.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

get us some pictures


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## wspev2244 (Sep 10, 2015)

*@ oh' mike*

@ oh' mike. The flange is indeed glued inside of a 3" pipe. And it is hard to get at the plumbing below the floor. My idea was to perhaps first trace a circle around the flange to then cut a circle in the tile surrounding the flange with my dremmel. Then unsrew the bolts from the flange, lift the flange up some to get the tile out from underneath the flange, and then let the flange sit down lower after the tile is gone. And finally screw the bolts back down in the flange to the plywood. I thought this way I can leave the flange glued to the pipe and be a able to just set the flange lower. Bad idea?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That might work---but could reduce the pitch on the pipe to much---

A better plan would be to remove the inside glued flange---cut with a small Japanese pull saw--then chisel out the scrap---then enlarge the opening around the pipe--

And add an outside flange---standard one with a stainless steel ring---with that, you could mount it to the tile ,if you wish.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

How much too high is the flange? If you're talking 1/8 inch or less then it might be easier just to take a belt sander and grind down the flange a little. Just be careful you don't grind down enough to weaken the t bolt mounts too much.


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## wspev2244 (Sep 10, 2015)

@ oh, mike. Thanks! That's right. I wasn't thinking about the pitch with the piping underneath. 

I agree with you in installing a new flange with the metal ring, but the reason I was hesitant at cutting out the PVC flange is because when it comes time to glue the new flange in it will be tough to grab at the pipe to push the flange around the pipe. 
It's hard to get at the pipe underneath the floor, there is a framed wall underneath that prevents my arm from reaching to that pipe.

I think with this flange issue it sounds like I should chalk this one up for a plumber to do. This one may be beyond my DIY skills. Thanks for your input.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Those flanges come with a test plate that has to be knocked out. Depending on who knocked it out, they may not have gotten all of it.

I had the same issue....There was a left over ring on the inside. Once I knocked that out, it worked great.

Here is what mine looks like


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Removing the old flange will only damage the INSIDE of the pipe--your new flange will be glued to the OUTSIDE---

I've been in your shoes several times----what I suggest works and is not advanced plumbing.---your call---


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## wspev2244 (Sep 10, 2015)

@ oh mike. I understand what you are saying. Maybe I wasn't explaining myself well in my last post. What I am concerned about is not having enough friction from the pipe below to be able to glue the flange around the pipe. I am concerned the pipe will slip lower below the floor perhaps when I try to push the flange down some around the pvc pipe below. Do I not need to be concerned with that?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes--the pipe must be properly supported---or it will push down when you press on the new flange---

It's late and I'm a little fog brained tonight.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If your concerned about the pipe moving downward.?
Put two notches in the plywood.
Wrap a wire around the pipe.
And secure the wire in the notches.


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