# Vacuum on makes smoke alarms go off. Electrical, not smoke.



## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

Dust. The air discharge on the vacuum may be kicking up dust and setting them off. Paint fumes, heavy cleansers, and such can do it also.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

No, it's an electrical issue. The second you flip the switch the alarms go off. The second you turn it off they stop. If I plug it in to another room or the hallway and use it in the offending room, it doesn't happen.


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## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

Are the smokes on the same circuit as the bedroom receptacles?


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

The breaker box has a breaker for smoke detectors and each bedroom has its own for the outlets. Did they cross something?


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## wiz561 (Nov 11, 2008)

I was going to guess dust as well. 

It could maybe be something goofy with the smoke alarm. I'm not an expert, but if you're feeling ambitious, maybe try to swap it with another one in the house and see if the same problem exists? Not 100% sure, but I believe the smoke alarms are fed by a transformer. Can the transformer be in the same area as the vacuum? Maybe the transformer's going. Another idea might be to see if it's just a smoke detector, or a co detector with smoke. In our new house, we have one co in the hall and the rest are smoke. Maybe the one detector's finding something the other's aren't. 

Final idea might be to see if you can borrow a neighbor's vacuum to see if it's the vacuum or not. Just some ideas, although again, I'm no expert with this.


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## AlKapone (Sep 11, 2011)

I would think its a voltage drop. Your smokes probably have a battery back up that will close a relay and set them off if your voltage goes to low. When u plug the vacuum in its using most of what's available. I seen a similar situation with a window a.c. unit and a big flat screen t.v. TV would almost turn off when the a.c. was on. You have to run anew seperate breaker to that receptacle or sort out the wiring and split it between the two or don't use that receptacle to vacuum


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## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

Don't laugh half-way through this, finish reading this: "Atmospheric ionization", sound stupid? I thought so when I first heard this, but it was proved to me. Your smoke detectors sound as if they are the "ionization type" instead of the "smoke detection" or "heat rise" type detectors. This means they detect the slightest increase in atmospheric ionization within a certain area. I first ran into this in some brand new condo's being built at a beachside resort back in '05. We had one ceiling tile that didn't look exactly the proper white color in a hall and I figured some flat white ceiling spray paint would cover up the small area----WRONG! While it did make the blemish look better, after the second squirt all HELL broke loose with the fire alarms and auto voice "Please Evacuate The Building by The Stairwells at This Time" coming into play. I knew there was no fire on my floor, we checked every floor just before the first of seven (7) fire trucks came flying up with what seemed like ten-thousand firemen. The bottom line: "Atmospheric Ionization" was the fire marshall's and alarm installer's report the next day after learning about my spray painting. This sounds as if you have one detector which is super-sensitive also. Try swapping the detector with another in the house, or get the alarm installer to investigate.


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## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

AlKapone said:


> I would think its a voltage drop. Your smokes probably have a battery back up that will close a relay and set them off if your voltage goes to low. When u plug the vacuum in its using most of what's available. I seen a similar situation with a window a.c. unit and a big flat screen t.v. TV would almost turn off when the a.c. was on. You have to run anew seperate breaker to that receptacle or sort out the wiring and split it between the two or don't use that receptacle to vacuum


I tried VD. OP said different breakers.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

I would also think it is a voltage drop or spike,
Perhaps that one smoke alarm is just a little bit
more sensitive to it, for some reason.
Swap the smoke alarm for another one from another room,
This will tell you if the problem lies with the unit itself,
or perhaps with the wiring ( at the end of a long run ).
You could also check the low voltage supply to the 
offending unit, and compare it to others in the house.
Perhaps that one is a little lower then the others !


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, I'll try swapping the alarms to see if it changes where it happens. That's not the same as when one has a low battery, right? With a low battery or no battery, that one will beep, but this issue is setting the entire house system off. It's weird though because I have brought in a window AC(have central air) and it didn't do it. Why would the vacuum do it and in just that one room?

Also, to the people saying smoke or ionization, I can hang the vacuum out the window and it will still do it. It is purely electrical. Thanks so far for the help. It's greatly appreciated.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, I swapped alarms and it made no difference. I did however discover that the breaker for that room's receptacles is not powering that room and in fact the breaker for the smoke detectors is powering that room's receptacles. So I guess that explains it, now what do I do? House was purchased in December of 2008 so I don't know if the electricians who wired the house would still come out. 

I opened up the breaker box and can't find anything abnormal. There are wires going to the breaker for that room. I can snoop around the attic, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. Suggestions?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

mikegp said:


> Ok, I swapped alarms and it made no difference. I did however discover that the breaker for that room's receptacles is not powering that room and in fact the breaker for the smoke detectors is powering that room's receptacles. So I guess that explains it, now what do I do? House was purchased in December of 2008 so I don't know if the electricians who wired the house would still come out.
> 
> I opened up the breaker box and can't find anything abnormal. There are wires going to the breaker for that room. I can snoop around the attic, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. Suggestions?


I bet that you have loose connection allready so check the receptale to make sure they are tight before you do this make sure you turn the breaker off for that circuit and see if any wire are loose if backstabbed move them to the screw this is one of few most common issue I have see.

If you are not confortable with it you can call the electrician they can fix it for you. If you still have that electrician's number then give them a buzz they will be happy to deal with it due they will know where it goes.

Merci,
Marc


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Loose connection where? By receptacle you mean the outlets in that room? I don't see why that would affect that they somehow put that room on the same circuit as the smoke detectors.

I found a junction box in the attic that is labeled so I'll open that up tomorrow hopefully and see if I can figure it out or maybe post a pic. 

I can call the electricians or the builder I guess. Don't know if they'll care since it's almost been three years. Obviously they messed it up originally so they should be willing to fix it. I would rather just do it myself.


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## AlKapone (Sep 11, 2011)

Same circuit ... No way.. joking of coarse. I don't think smokes have to be on a dedicated circuit by code. Could be wrong but Yea the builder has put this job far behind him. I doubt he will be any help. Your going to have to do some investigating and see where is the easist way to get the receptacles (outlets) or the smokes on a new breaker. Make sure you match the breaker to the wire size. It will tell you the size wire on the insulation jacket size 14 (usually yellow) needs a 15 amp breaker size 12 (usually white) needs a 20 amp breaker. Good luck with it bro


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

mikegp said:


> Ok, I'll try swapping the alarms to see if it changes where it happens. That's not the same as when one has a low battery, right? With a low battery or no battery, that one will beep, but this issue is setting the entire house system off. It's weird though because I have brought in a window AC(have central air) and it didn't do it. Why would the vacuum do it and in just that one room?
> 
> Also, to the people saying smoke or ionization, I can hang the vacuum out the window and it will still do it. It is purely electrical. Thanks so far for the help. It's greatly appreciated.


 

Wouldn't it be easier to just get rid of the vacuum ?


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## RBKinUSA (Feb 23, 2012)

*Did you get a resolution?*

I work for a home builder. It's 2012 & we're just encountering this issue. It's not just Dyson vacuums; it's any vacuum it seems. I have used a small Emerson brand shop vac, that doesn't set them off by itself, but I can plug a heat gun in (equivalent to a hand held hair dryer) and they go off as soon as I turn the switch on. When I turn it off they stop. I do believe it has something to do with voltage drop, but the electrical contractor argues that the smoke detector is entirely at fault. The smokes are wired into the master bed room circuit, which is also afci protected. The sleeping rooms have had to be afci protected starting around 1999 code changes. The smokes didn't have to be (arc fault protected) until later. I was shocked to see blogs dating back past 2005 talking about this issue. Our supplier said that BRK (smoke detector manufacturer) had a batch that was made between certain dates (wouldn't share the dates, but the implication was that it was recent) that they had tested & found some problem. They agreed to replace the smokes & redeem the labor charge to do so. Unfortunately, the new ones do the same thing. I was wondering if you ever resolved your issue? I am involving our electrical contractor & a rep for BRK to see if we can identify why this is happening. Obviously we will separate them to their own afci dedicated circuit moving forward to eliminate this, but that is very expensive and labor intensive to retro what we already have built & occupied. We’re building a four story condo product that the entire top floor is master bed room. I guess I could instruct our home owners that they will need to plug their vacuums into the master bath room circuit…… but c’mon! Really? They’re paying a premium for a brand new house! They should be able to plug a simple functioning vacuum into any plug they want without creating any other issues! If you have found a resolution I am curious to hear it. If you haven’t and are still interested I will keep you posted on what we find.


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## silverfoxscott (Feb 22, 2012)

The house is only three years old. Don't call the electric company that wired it call the builder. If it's a reputable builder they will probably help you out.


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## Hardway (Dec 28, 2011)

AlKapone said:


> Same circuit ... No way.. joking of coarse. I don't think smokes have to be on a dedicated circuit by code. Could be wrong but Yea the builder has put this job far behind him. I doubt he will be any help. Your going to have to do some investigating and see where is the easist way to get the receptacles (outlets) or the smokes on a new breaker. Make sure you match the breaker to the wire size. It will tell you the size wire on the insulation jacket size 14 (usually yellow) needs a 15 amp breaker size 12 (usually white) needs a 20 amp breaker. Good luck with it bro


Here in my area new construction smoke alarms are required to be on a dedicated circuit by code and the alarms require a 15 amp breaker (wired w 14-3). The vacuum is setting the alarms off same as if an alarm trips. Plug a night light in the same outlet and all the alarms will go off.


_Writer’s information is for discussion purpose only and should be confirmed by an independent source._


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Vacuum cleaners create a lot of "electrical noise" and this feeds back into the electrical wires. So having a separate circuit for the smoke detectors might work as that "noise" would have to travel back to the main panel, then back to the smoke detectors. And might be less noisy with that distance of travel.

Also there are "interconnecting" lines between the smoke detectors. If that wire is in the same wires as that powering the vacuum, then the noise could "bleed" over into that line. Another good reason to have all the wiring to the smoke detectors separate and on a separate circuit.

Then with products made in China, they remove components which are not totally necessary for a gizmo to work, then save a few cents on manufacturing. And they don't tell anyone they do this. There might have been a few extra components which SHOULD have been installed in the smoke detectors to "filter" out electrical noise such as this, but some cheap Chinese factory may have decided they were not necessary!

And you don't notice these things missing until something like this happens. And then it is too late to return the products.

Anyway might want to see if the smoke detectors were made in China.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

:furious:I hate it when people bring up OLD posts and answer them like the thread was just posted.


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## RBKinUSA (Feb 23, 2012)

We swapped the Kiddes out to BRK's and that fixed it. We were having the problem wide spread over several developements with 3 different electrical contractors. The Kiddes were the only common element. Apparently whoever said the manufacturer was cost cutting leaving out a component was right. It cost Kidde a national account.


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