# how to bleed air out of hot water baseboard



## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

hi everyone, I read several blogs but still not sure how to take out air from my hot water baseboard. I am attaching a few photos if someone could give me step by step instructions to how to take the air out.

I have a 2 zone heat , zone 1 is 1st floor which works great, its the 2nd floor where i can hear the water in the pipes.
i know a few ppl have a valve in the baseboard but i do not have that valve.

thanks
SA


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## HVACDave (Oct 16, 2007)

What do you have for pressure in your system? Looks like there is some by the gage, but it may be stuck. If you pull the covers off of your baseboards upstairs you don't see any place that you could bleed off any air? Is there a union or a tee with a cap, or anything like that? Some of the vents are really small, could you take a picture of what type of rads you have?


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

*If *you have no bleed valves on your baseboards, then trying to drain the air out of your system the way it is now set up might well be a waste of time. I am 95% sure that you will not have a union joint upstairs on a baseboard heating system that you can crack to let the water pressure force the air out. (I'd check for that 5 % chance)
This means that you can only try to force the air back down and out to a drain with house or street water pressure. The replacement water will be oxygenated and soon release more air back into the upstairs baseboards so you'll be back where you were.

The main problem is your auto bleed valve is situated on the boiler on a dead leg to the T&P valve where it can't do its job of removing air from your system. Until a auto bleed valve or a spiro vent gets installed on an *active* part of your water circulation system, your air problems will just continue.

Is this air preventing you from getting the heat where you want it ,when you want it? Is your T&P valve venting? What does the working pressure and temp read on your tridicator guage. Is it just the noice issue at present?


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## REP (Jul 24, 2011)

Whoever piped that boiler should be put in prison for flat out stealing your money.
So many things,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,First it looks like the boiler is piped with 3/4" copper.If thats the case 3/4" is good for about 40,000 btus unless you play with the water temp above 180 degrees.Second I do not see an air scoop.As already mentioned the air vent you have is on a non water moving part of the piping.
You can pressure feed that boiler all night and you will stillo have air in the system.Third you have your low water cut off before the pressure reduser,that will not work.
What you need is a boiler guy to repipe your boiler if you ever want to have any level of first safty and second comfort.
You are going to need an air scoop so get ONLY a Spirotherm air scoop.The rest of them are 70 year old technology and don't compare to the Spriotherm.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Not pipe up the best, but you do have purge valves to purge the air out at least.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

manually swing the 2 zone valves if you can no circulator running close off the 2 ball valves on the horizontal piping connect a hose and drain off the zone letting the water feed push the air out then do the other.reopen the ball valves and restart the boiler.i bleed vent on each zone as it turns onto the floor above will solve all of this and that bleeder relocation..also might want to add a nipple and bal valve below that EX tank for future drain outs or repairs


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

thank everyone for such a fast reply 

I just checked all the baseboard pipes on the second floor ...there are no union or vent to get the air out.. so i guess the only way is to drain the water out

1. turn off the boiler
2. connect the hose to the second zone 
3. turn off the valve from where the water is going to the second floor from the pump 
3. make the pump on manual mode (that small silver box connected to the pipe)
4. open the valve to let some water out

not how much water do i take out.. and am i missing any step or i am way wrong on the above steps...

thanks


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

you don't want the circulator on let the auto feed push the air out toggle off the boiler and maually swing the zone actuator shut the riser ball valve so the onlt outlet for the feed water is that petcock and out the hose...till you don't here any air it will burp some then shut that zone and do the same with the other hose and valves


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Is your system not working properly now? 

Remember that all the relatively oxygen inert water that goes down your drain will be replaced with freshly oxygenated water.
Without a system to selectly bleed the air out of the boiler that doesn't require the refilling of it with fresh water, you are just not going to be happy with the result a month down the road. 
That continuous air in the system will be internally rusting away that black iron piping and the expenses for replacing the eventual debris damaged equipement will exceed the costs of properly installing an auto air bleed valve.


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## REP (Jul 24, 2011)

You can do whatever you like,but until somebody properly pipes this boiler you will not get much more than 40,000 btu into house.I hope you hyave a small house like 700-800 sq feet.
The way it is now there is no way to get the air out.You might be able to dislodge an "air bubble" but you will have air in the system.
The way it is now the water to the house would have to be shut offr in order for the low water cut off to work and shut the boiler down.
Perhaps you missed my earlier post.Your piping is a total mess,it will not work properly the way it is.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Hook garden hose up to faucet on return. turn off boiler. Close ball valve between where hose is connected and return pipe. Open faucet. Manually open zone valve. Pull fast fill lever on auto feed up so it feeds water quicker. Purge for several minutes until you no longer get air out of it. then release fast fill lever, close faucet, and open valve between faucet and return, put zone valve back to auto, repeat for other zone if it has air in it also.


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

hi, I just noticed something few ppl on the forum said that the normal psi is between 12-25, i just checked mine and it was about 50 ( attaching the image)... i have both the zones on and i took the photo

Also when i drain the water "Pull fast fill lever on auto feed up so it feeds water quicker" so that is the second image the i have attached right, looks like a bell that's the thing i need to trun when i drain the water right?

thanks


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

OK , that means that you have at least one more faulty part on your boiler. The T&P valve that should vent as a safety control when your pressure raises above 30 PSI or your pressure guage is giving a faulty reading.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

that BELL is your auto feed set at 12psi to stop the city water when it reaches the 12psi.when you lift it your over pressurizing the system from the street blow the water off the boiler till you here the auto feed start to make up it should stop feeding around 12 psi then start the boiler that 12psi minus the 30 relief is plenty of room for the water to heat up to satisfy the stat and should end up around 20 psi or a little over... don't ever tounch that water regualtor...let it do its job that's why your up into the 50 psi range on the boiler...its looking at city pressure into the house it doesn't need it....just that 12psi which is universal with all residential boilers to at least have a standing water pressure thru out the entire system in the house..even when you bleed any place as you originally where looking to do that regualtor will continue to feed till it reaches 12psi as it pushes the air out....to repeat your entire piping system thru out the house is at 12psi on a cold boiler before the stat calls


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

how said:


> OK , that means that you have at least one more faulty part on your boiler. The T&P valve that should vent as a safety control when your pressure raises above 30 PSI or your pressure guage is giving a faulty reading.


Boilers don't have T&Ps. Just pressure relief valve.

He needs to check what PSIG his relief is set to open at. And his gauge may be incorrect as you said.


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

how can i check if the PSIG relief is set to open? Should i get a professionl or can i check that?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The label on it will list what pressure it is set to.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

hey beenthere
Quite right about the T&P valve being the wrong term. and..
I have yet to see a residential pressure relief valve that wasn't factory set for 30 PSI. with a 650,000 btu range max.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

how said:


> hey beenthere
> Quite right about the T&P valve being the wrong term. and..
> I have yet to see a residential pressure relief valve that wasn't factory set for 30 PSI. with a 650,000 btu range max.


Have a couple of them around here. Mostly on older homes that are 4 story.


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

hi, i think i did something wrong.. Hook garden hose up to faucet on return. turn off boiler. Close ball valve between where hose is connected and return pipe. Open faucet. Manually open zone valve. Pull fast fill lever on auto feed up so it feeds water quicker... i muct have opened it for about 45 seconds .. I did see light brown water the hose was throwing out with the air bubbles , then I closed the faucet, opened the ball valve, put the zone valve auto mode, turned on the boiler, that all is fine... but now there a copper pipe at the back which is continuously throwing out water. I had to turn off the main ball valve water supply that is feeding that warter to this system. When wver I open that valve water starts leaking in huge amount from that copper pipe at the back …

any suggestions?

thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Auto fill is probably bleeding water through when it shouldn't. The manual water valve shouldn't be open. The auto feed is not a low water prevention device.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

What is the pressure reading on your boiler?
Your pressure relief valve is venting because you are getting too much pressure in your boiler or the pressure relief valve is not operating properly.
There is a chance that the pressure relief valve tried to reseat when debris was going through it and that debris has lodged on the seat of that valve keeping it partially open. There is a flip lever on the end of the pressure relief valve that when lifted up will manually open up the valve to hopefully release the debris off the seat. Water will pour out of the 3/4 " tube when you do this. Release that lever and let it snap back into place.
If your lucky this may deal with the problem.
If your pressure reducing valve is allowing too much pressure through into your boiler *and the pressure relief valve is not continuing to vent at a pressure* *below 30 PSI*, then you can turn off the water feed valve to the boiler and still use the boiler. This would be a temporary way to continue to heat your home until the pressure reducing valve is replaced.
If the pressure relief valve continues to vent at a pressure below spec (30PSI) then you can't turn off the water feed.


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

I turned off the heater system and now the psi is below 30.. so i fliped the lever on the end of the pressure relief valve .. and put it back....still no go.

now when i turn on the system ...in that copper pipe i still have water leaking but at a lower speed.. so now sure if i should leave the system on?


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Well according to earlier posts you already have a guage that is probably at least 20 PSI higher than reality so it's hard to tell what is what. You can run the boiler with the water feed *on* and a dribbeling press relief valve and you'll be heating water that you are draining away. It will be like leaving a hot water tap on all the time, plus the air problem will only get worse. If you turn *off* the water feed, you may damage the boiler while the relief valve is still leaking.
This boiler needs a serious make over for all the reasons given on earlier postings. The longer you delay that, the more it's likely to cost you.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Tun off manual water valve. Leave water out of boiler until it drops to 12 PSIG. Turn boiler back on and observe its operation.


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## newhomenj (Dec 10, 2011)

Did everthing and still that water was leaking..
time to call the professional ... they guy came in and said that the press relief valve is bad... he replaced it and its back to normal. He measureas the PSI in my house it was 120.. that is comming from outside town..

He also mentioned that are couple wrong like the .. gauge is not working .. and there is a small black box that is connected in the wrong place and the spiral that takes off any air from the system... also he is going to install a pressure relief valve to the main supply becasue its 120 psi.

I would thank eveyone for such quick replies and great suggestions.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Getting a house pressure reducing valve installed will also save you years of standard hot water tank life, Hwt T&P valves, solinoid water valves in washing machines & dish washers, rubber supply lines, tap washers, etc. as well as the life span on that new boiler pressure reducing valve.


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