# In-Floor Heating Cable Trouble...



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

sootybuttercup said:


> Any suggestions?:furious:


Yes. Take up the floor and replace the cable on the tiler's coin. No other option IMO. You are not about to repair it.
This is why we do an ohm check out of the box; once installed; and then after tile/flooring. Any differences along the way point to who caused the problem. If you left with the ohms in range and came back to find the cable shorted or open it is obviously an issue that was caused after you laid the cable.

For the record, I HATE  that single wire radiant heat. Give me a mat any time.


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi Speedy...I was afraid someone would say that (take the floor up). I had been checking the ohms after every phase of the job (I laid the cable...and OK), the floor tiles went down, after the leveller...and OK, the steps and deck tiles went down...and NG. Took a few tiles up and found that the tile installer pounded the staples in enough to crush the wire. Found 1 so far with the copper braid showing. Wishing there was a way to "narrow it down" besides doing ohm checks between the heater end wire and wetted grout spots randomly selected (that's how I found the first exposed braid).     
Thanks!


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

sootybuttercup said:


> Took a few tiles up and found that the tile installer pounded the staples in enough to crush the wire.


This can be translated to: "He's a moron!"


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

There is no compliant repair method for the cable type floor heat. It is either all perfect, or it's all junk. The tile man owes you new heat and a new floor. Simple as that. This is another insurance claim that you should stop messing with right now. Get on the phone Monday morning to the tile man and ask him to send over his insurance man.


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

mdshunk...i guess you are right. I was trying to narrow things down to help with the process, but I'm not having much luck. I have taken up more than a dozen tiles and the staples have been pounded in so far that there is are deep permanent grooves in the wire. I'm taking lots of high res photos. I'll be calling them with the bad news on Monday. Strange that I am not reading a dead short if the staple went all the way to the inside. They'll probably say I damaged the cables putting them down...and I have no proof I checked them along the way...except my 15 year old daughter helped the last time, before the final tiles and grout went in. I'll let you know what the tiling people say about it. Thanks.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

Consequently, I'm surprised you can find the cable. Did they use thinset only? The way you're supposed to do that is to pour floor leveler over the cables so that you have a new "flat" floor area, with the cables covered in leveler. Then, after that dries, you use thinset to set the tiles. If they used thinset to lay the tiles right over the cable, they did it wrong. That's the procedure for mat heat.


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

They did do the levelling thing on the floor, and everything was still okay after those tiles were laid. They just used the thinset on the vertical surfaces and tub ledge/step. The tiler did say to me that he "wished I would have routered a groove to lay those wires in"...so after that he must have pounded the staples in. I'm not sure you are allowed to router grooves for those cables...only for the splices. I think I aged 5 years today. Thanks for the replies.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

You used the Easy Heat "Warm Tiles" stuff, then?


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

I used the Stelpro brand cables, but the stuff you mention sounds the same.
http://www.stelpro.com/en/floor.html


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## revid64 (May 2, 2010)

*infloor heating*

hi guys just want to get some feedback.screwed up on my square footage,said it was around 70sq ft but its actually around 50.Now got this stelpro heating cable thats for 61ft and its way to long.can you cut it off and seal the ends somehow?Lookslike they just put heat shrink on the ends at the factory,can't see what else and dont want to strip the heat shrink.


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

revid...they have splicing kits, but I believe if you have to splice it (to repair it) that it has to stay the same length. Best to call Stelpro Toll free: 1-866-766-6020 and ask them. I think they will tell you to space it closer (if you can do that and still stay within the recommended distances)...or run the extra into another room or hallway. Good luck. Let us know what you find out.


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## revid64 (May 2, 2010)

*heating cable woes*

had no choice but to buy shorter cable.Bought 44ft,did reading 121.5,box says 124 ohms.poured leveler down and did reading,120.6 ohms,is the cable still good or what?asked stelpro about the 124 to 12.5 and they says its still good but to late to ask them now about the 120.6 difference.what do you guys think?


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

what are those numbers again?


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## revid64 (May 2, 2010)

*cable trouble*

box says 124 ohms.I tested got 121.5.did test after floor leveler down and got 120.6ohms.what do you think?


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

I'd say it's all good. Don't forget to measure to the ground braid, too...from each power lead. You should have infinite ohms from power lead to grounding braid.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Yes. Take up the floor and replace the cable on the tiler's coin. No other option IMO. You are not about to repair it.
> This is why we do an ohm check out of the box; once installed; and then after tile/flooring. Any differences along the way point to who caused the problem. If you left with the ohms in range and came back to find the cable shorted or open it is obviously an issue that was caused after you laid the cable.
> 
> For the record, I HATE  that single wire radiant heat. Give me a mat any time.


Same goes for Snow Melt water-heated tubing or PEX. Once a leak develops, there's no other option than to rip-open the entire covered area!:furious:!


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## revid64 (May 2, 2010)

*heating cable trouble*

I did a continuity test from the ground to each lead and there wasnt any sound from the meter or reading so thats a good thing.hopefully it doesnt drop anymore,if thats what it does when the wire is getting worst.Dont understand the ohm thing yet.thanks alot guys for the advice.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

revid said:


> I did a continuity test from the ground to each lead and there wasnt any sound from the meter or reading so thats a good thing.hopefully it doesnt drop anymore,if thats what it does when the wire is getting worst.Dont understand the ohm thing yet.thanks alot guys for the advice.


Please permit me to comment on something that's been "Bothering"? me for a while. People have been running to digital meters since they came on the market. A/O to the older, Analog meters. IMHO, (even though I own a digital Multimeter) an Analog type Multimeter is much easier to understand and discern its readings, especially in testing for continuity, than the Digital meters. In your specific case, (According to the reading results you describe.) wires of the heater have not shorted out. It's just that continuity has been lost in one or both wires. But it doesn't make much of a difference. You'll have to rip up the floor anyway, if you want to use radiant heat. Good Luck!:thumbsup:!


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

revid said:


> I did a continuity test from the ground to each lead and there wasnt any sound from the meter or reading so thats a good thing.hopefully it doesnt drop anymore,if thats what it does when the wire is getting worst.Dont understand the ohm thing yet.thanks alot guys for the advice.


The drop in ohms means nothing. Without getting to technical, if the test on the wire out of the box is i.e. 121.5 ohms and after it's installed it's 1.1 ohms higher or lower, it's only reflecting the difference in temperature of the wire. The resistance f wire changes in diferent temps. Don't worry at all about the dif you're seeing.

As it has been stated, the only time you have an issue is when the difference is measured in considerable changes, not in tenths, or, when there is a short to the braided ground.

That said, it is possible to damage line voltage elements by dropping something heavy on it and measuring a (again i.e.) 10% difference. Now you've 'shortened' the element without creating a true connection point at the end. When activated, it may run for a brief period and then stop running.

The issue speaks for itslef though. Don't damage the element and you won't have any issues!

As to the shortening of the element, yes, technically it can be done fairly easily however, you can't shorten it more than 2% of the total length and you will void your warranty as it is now a different product than what left the warehouse.


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## homestead (Dec 19, 2014)

*In-floor heating ground fault*

OK, same problem, I have a 363 watt Easy Heat cable under 16" square tiles in a small bathroom. Worked great for *4 years* (winter only), then 5 days ago started tripping the built-in GFI in the controller.

I am a licensed electrician and the tile installer. Followed all instructions, spacing, no overlaps, set in floor leveler under tiles. Very careful to not damage cable during installation. 

Since then no rugs on the tile, no cracks, no damage, no alterations. 

Measures 40 ohms as it should and heats floor if connected to a non-GFI circuit, draws 3.2 amps. Immediately trips if plugged into a GFI.

Measured about 150Kohms, either conductor to braid, understand this should be in the megaohms if cable was not compromised.

Very reluctant to tear up my nice tile job. Any comments?


I have actually thought of just putting it on a timer to operate only from midnite and 5AM. 

Measured AC voltage from a dripping wet paper towel laid on a grout corner:

- to cable braid 0.22VAC

- to house wiring ground about 1.9 - 2.5VAC

How dangerous is this?

homestead


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

I'd say if it is suddenly tripping and the ohms are low, then something is compromised and will only get worse. I wouldn't use it without the GFI. That's asking for trouble. I feel you pain having had to rip up my floor after a tiler damaged the cable.


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## homestead (Dec 19, 2014)

I just wonder about the actual risk.

Just measured the voltage between the soaking wet paper towel on the floor and the sink faucets: 1.3VAC.

I suppose it could get worse...


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## sootybuttercup (Apr 17, 2006)

That would be my worry.


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## homestead (Dec 19, 2014)

Aside from my immediate problem, I had been contemplating installing another floor heat system in a different room. 

Are there any records kept on these systems? Cable vs mats, different brands?


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