# Old fridge not cooling so well



## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

It sounds like it's time for a new fridge. I just went through this exercise too. One more thing to check ... open up the back of the freezer to look at the coils. If they are frozen over, it could be that your defrost is not working. In that case it might be an easy fix to replace the defrost timer. 
Plenty of Youtube videos on this.
Freezer should be right around 0°F, fridge 34°ish.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Clutchcargo said:


> It sounds like it's time for a new fridge. I just went through this exercise too. One more thing to check ... open up the back of the freezer to look at the coils. If they are frozen over, it could be that your defrost is not working. In that case it might be an easy fix to replace the defrost timer.
> Plenty of Youtube videos on this.
> Freezer should be right around 0°F, fridge 34°ish.


Thanks for the reply;
I will get to that this afternoon - after I finish cleaning the condenser coils.
I guess I just have to remove the baffle on the back wall of the freezer to expose the evaporator coils.

I have a thermometer in the air vents coming out of the evaporator in the freezer, and that air is blowing out at -3F. I suppose that if the air blowing out is that cold, and the freezer box itself is at +10F, then there is either a leak in the door gasket, or the air flow is blocked. There isn't anything blocking the vents now, but I will have a look at the coils themselves.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Turn it off for 24 hours to defrost to determine if that helps. If that helps for awhile but the symptoms repeat then look into the automatic defrost as the possible problem.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Turn it off for 24 hours to defrost to determine if that helps. If that helps for awhile but the symptoms repeat then look into the automatic defrost as the possible problem.


Sounds good.
Thanks.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I wish I would have said " unplug it ". that way the controls stay the same for a better test.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I wish I would have said " unplug it ". that way the controls stay the same for a better test.


Will do.
So far, I have cleaned the condenser coils as best I could. The brush I bought at HD for $10 (set of two - one for fridge, one for dryer) worked very well.

I was unable to access the evaporator coils. There are screws to remove the back plate in the freezer. I can do that when I pull the plug at the start of the defroster test.
So far as the defroster heater - if it's bad, I don't think I would bother to replace it. The thing is 25 years old, and really not worth fixing. It is just my stubbornness that has me doing anything past the thorough cleaning.
From what I have read, a new fridge will save around $100 per year on electric.

The thing is, it's not I who have to make the decision on which refrigerator to buy. It is my dad, and he hates to spend money on household things. Funny, that he wouldn't hesitate to help me out if I needed a new car - but a new fridge? Aren't those things supposed to last forever?

Being the "handyman" that I am, I had to give it my best to try save the old machine. If it does turn out that a good cleaning, inside and out, solves the problem, then it will make my dad very happy.
Then the 14 year old washing machine will break down. I have already saved its life by replacing the clutch 18 months ago.

FW


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

KE2KB said:


> ... It is amazing that the 40 year old fridge in the basement is still working properly.


I'm not surprised. Most appliances were still made reasonably well in the mid '70s. If I bought one today, I'd be tickled to get 15-20 years out of it.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

I am still perplexed as to how the fridge gets cold in the first place. There do not appear to be any evaporator coils in the walls of the fridge - only in the back of the freezer.
There is that little vent which is opened or partially closed depending on the freezer setting knob (A to E - E being the coldest freezer, vent closed).
There isn't any air flow inside the fridge (except the cold air that drops down through that little vent from the freezer).

On the older fridge, the evaporator coil is in the back, and you can actually see it. There is usually a small amount of ice on that coil - which appears normal. But this one?? Osmosis?? <g>


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Checked out evaporator & air ducts. No ice blockage. Only a very thin coating of frost on evaporator coils and fins.

Cold air is coming into (and apparently leaving) the fridge compartment. I did the freezer door test - check cold air into fridge with freezer door closed, then open. If opening freezer door increases air flow, then there is a blockage in the return duct.
That did not happen. There was no perceptible difference with freezer door open or closed.

Compressor is running 24/7, and the temps are not getting as cold as expected:
Fridge: not lower than 40F
Freezer: not lower than +9F.

I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!

Thanks for all your help.

FW


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Now this is WEIRD!
Suddenly this morning the fridge is working properly again!
I put a wireless thermometer sensor in the fridge - so that there is no disturbance to the gasket for the wire to pass through.
Temp was set to 7 - as it had been for the past 5 days when temp would not go below 40F.
Now I am seeing a temp of 30F. So I reset the thermostat to 5. The compressor shut off immediately when I did that, and now, after about 1/2 hour, the temp is at about 35.

I want to check for leaky door gaskets by unplugging and not opening the fridge for a couple hours, while recording the temp rise.
Also, I still want to clean out some dust remaining on the compressor coils.

I'm just wondering whether I should have checked the line voltage. Perhaps it was a bit low for a while? I never checked it, but may be able to get that info from our POCO.
On the other hand, why wouldn't the fridge in the basement also suffered from a low line voltage?

More investigation is needed.

Reason I keep posting is that I hope that someone might be helped by this info.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

KE2KB said:


> Now this is WEIRD!
> Suddenly this morning the fridge is working properly again!
> I put a wireless thermometer sensor in the fridge - so that there is no disturbance to the gasket for the wire to pass through.
> Temp was set to 7 - as it had been for the past 5 days when temp would not go below 40F.
> ...


 I've found a Kill-O-Watt meter handy for measuring various voltages, wattage use etc.

Checking door gaskets for leakage. In general, if there is very much leakage the door edge and gasket surface will be wet with condensation indicating leakage. That is if that surface temperature is below dew point temperature. 

An infrared thermometer, while not the most accurate, will give us a good indication of temperatures in those locations. And of course this shows more so on freezer door gaskets more so than refrigerator gaskets. On a white appliance and white gaskets mold can even bee seen in some conditions from dust settling there. 

I have a freezer and second fridge in the garage where the air moisture percent is usually higher and it shows some leakage very well in some gasket areas more than others.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Take 3 deep breaths and repeat this:I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!
I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!
I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!​Keep that up until you've completed your transaction with the New Fridge Store. :laughing:

Once you've moved the food into your new fridge, see how you feel about figuring out the old one. :smartass:


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

GrayHair said:


> Take 3 deep breaths and repeat this:I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!
> I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!
> I have done enough testing. It is time for a new fridge!!​Keep that up until you've completed your transaction with the New Fridge Store. :laughing:
> 
> Once you've moved the food into your new fridge, see how you feel about figuring out the old one. :smartass:


There are a few issues here:
1) I am stubborn
2) I am not the one paying for the new fridge, and the one who is, is very cheap.
3) We have another working fridge and a deep freeze downstairs, so nothing will go bad in the time it takes to see what is going on.

Just for curiosity, I also ordered a Kill-A-Watt that I want to plug into the fridge. Not that I'm expecting to get any answers from it, but I like playing with that sort of thing, and it could be useful - and it only cost $15.
Note: I am paying for the Kill-A-Watt, not my dad (who is paying for the fridge) <g>

Does this qualify my family as dysfunctional? <g>


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I've found a Kill-O-Watt meter handy for measuring various voltages, wattage use etc.
> 
> Checking door gaskets for leakage. In general, if there is very much leakage the door edge and gasket surface will be wet with condensation indicating leakage. That is if that surface temperature is below dew point temperature.
> 
> ...


I ordered the Kill-A-Watt, and I would love to have an infrared thermometer. Can you tell me what kind of accuracy and range I would need if I want to use it not only for checking the fridge, but finding cold spots around windows and doors (and anywhere heat is escaping) during the heating season?

I see prices for IR thermometers ranging from $17 up to $100.
I would assume the $17 ones are really just toys...


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I have a less expensive one that was given to me that usually serves my needs. Estimating + - 5°. Shot at different colors seem to make them vary. But we don't read instructions do we.:laughing:

We had them at work when they were first introduced that were $500.00 bucks and I don't see much difference.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I have a less expensive one that was given to me that usually serves my needs. Estimating + - 5°. Shot at different colors seem to make them vary. But we don't read instructions do we.:laughing:
> 
> We had them at work when they were first introduced that were $500.00 bucks and I don't see much difference.


Do you think spending $35 for a dual laser and probably some addn features is worthwhile?

Edit: I ordered the Etekcity Lasergrip 660 (dual laser). I think the dual laser will make it more useful for pinpointing components in my computer, for one. I have come up with dozens of uses for this thing already!


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

KE2KB said:


> Do you think spending $35 for a dual laser and probably some addn features is worthwhile?
> 
> Edit: I ordered the Etekcity Lasergrip 660 (dual laser). I think the dual laser will make it more useful for pinpointing components in my computer, for one. I have come up with dozens of uses for this thing already!


You'll need to find that info. on dual laser somewhere other than SeniorSitizen. I'm old and old school and that Kill-O-Watt meter and my $19.99 infrared thermometer are the most fanciest tools I have.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

So far as I can tell, the dual laser helps to get a more accurate reading by showing the area you are measuring. The two lasers converge at some point, and that is where your reading will be taken from. So the laser(s) is just a locating device - like the one on my Zircon stud finder. It makes working in the dark a lot easier.

Back to the fridge: I checked the prices on door gaskets (fridge and freezer). Wow! They ain't cheap! $140 for the fridge and $105 for the freezer. Actually, I'm not all that surprised. First off, these aren't being manufactured anymore. Second, they have magnetic surfaces - I guess they all do - otherwise, how would the door stay closed.
So, if I were going to consider replacing both gaskets, the cost would be around $250. And the cost of the same refrigerator is about $700. I get $50 back from the gov for buying a more energy efficient unit, and an extra $50 if I buy certain models - which carry the Energy Star seal. So if I shop smart, I can get a new fridge with the same capacity for $600 + tax and delivery, and the old one will be taken away free with the rebate program. Only catch is that the old fridge has to be in working order. 

So, maybe I should just take GrayHair's advice and quit doing tests, and buy a new fridge!


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Looking at the gasket on the top of the fridge door - where I found the leakage to be (or perhaps it is from the bottom of the freezer door, as it is a top freezer model, and my probe could not get into that crevasse to determine which seal is leaking) I find nothing torn. I did find that there was condensation on the outside where the door seal meets the metal. That is most likely because I turned off the mullion heaters - there is a switch on the control panel - thinking that the heaters might be contributing to the temperature issue. So I switched them back on, just to make sure the moisture doesn't interfere with the door seal.

I'm thinking I can go to HD and buy some window AC foam strips and push them into the space between freezer and fridge doors to get an idea if the leak is only that one spot, or maybe another gasket in the rear.
According to the non-contact thermometer I used to check the seals, that was the only area where the temp was considerably lower than ambient.
But again, using a temporal thermometer isn't exactly optimal - I have to wait for my new toy to arrive to get better readings - but I think we will have a new fridge by then...

You may all think I'm crazy, spending all this time with a 25 year old fridge. But in reality, except for the cleaning of the condenser coils, I kind of enjoy this kind of thing. I would love to pinpoint the trouble and to be able to order an inexpensive gasket to fix it, but if it really is the door gasket(s), then I am afraid there won't be a cheap solution.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

On a military efficiency report they wrote I had "stick-to-itiveness". Trying to solve an unusual problem on a service call, my contact said I was " doggedly persistent". Both just nice ways of saying "stubborn", so I know exactly what you mean. Knowing what broke isn't enough for me; I want to know *why* it broke.

Sometimes the cheapest thing one can do is spend the money. It's usually just breaking down and admitting it to yourself. I have trouble doing that most of the time.

As far as identifying a dysfunctional family, the blind should not lead anyone.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

GrayHair said:


> On a military efficiency report they wrote I had "stick-to-itiveness". Trying to solve an unusual problem on a service call, my contact said I was " doggedly persistent". Both just nice ways of saying "stubborn", so I know exactly what you mean. Knowing what broke isn't enough for me; I want to know *why* it broke.
> 
> Sometimes the cheapest thing one can do is spend the money. It's usually just breaking down and admitting it to yourself. I have trouble doing that most of the time.
> 
> As far as identifying a dysfunctional family, the blind should not lead anyone.


Does the military consider "stick-to-itiveness" a good quality?

Whatever comes out of all of this, I get two new toys: The Kill-A-Watt, and the non-contact thermometer, both of which I believe will be very useful and fun to have and use. I may regret having bought the thermometer next winter when I find all the leaky spots in the old house. I will be expected to fix as many of them as I can.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

It's all about curiosity now. We are going to buy a new fridge next week, but until then, and the old unit is carted away (for recycling - get a $50 rebate and free removal), I would like to know what is really going on.

Today I was doing some measurements with my new Etekcity Laser Grip 630 IR thermometer, and found that the walls inside the fridge are warm compared to the foods stored, but even between bottles of juice, milk, coffee creamer, etc, I found large differences.
The back wall and the plastic housing over the temperature control unit are between 45 and 50F. Same thing with the walls of the fridge.
On the other hand, the air coming into the fridge compartment from the freezer is below 0F.

Thinking that something was wrong with the mullion heaters, I switched them off again, but that didn't make any difference - it shouldn't, as they are supposed to heat only the outside surfaces.

Is it normal for the inside walls of the fridge to be much warmer than the items in the fridge?
I will check again tomorrow morning, but the coffee creamer I have near the back of the top shelf has been in there since this morning, yet its temp read close to 50F, while a bottle of juice next to it read closer to 40F.
I don't think there is enough difference in the emissivity of the surfaces of those items to require a different setting on the thermometer (my model has variable setting from 0.1 to 1.0), and even so, I don't think it would make that much difference in the reading.

Could it be that there isn't enough air circulation in the fridge?
The evaporator fan in the freezer is working, and I didn't see any ice blocking the air path between freezer and fridge, and I can feel the very cold air coming through - although I don't know how much air there is supposed to be.


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## Tom738 (Jun 1, 2010)

KE2KB said:


> It's all about curiosity now. We are going to buy a new fridge next week, but until then, and the old unit is carted away (for recycling - get a $50 rebate and free removal), I would like to know what is really going on.
> 
> Today I was doing some measurements with my new Etekcity Laser Grip 630 IR thermometer, and found that the walls inside the fridge are warm compared to the foods stored, but even between bottles of juice, milk, coffee creamer, etc, I found large differences.
> The back wall and the plastic housing over the temperature control unit are between 45 and 50F. Same thing with the walls of the fridge.
> ...


Do you have a stuffed top shelf maybe blocking the airflow once it's in the fridge? Or in the freezer blocking the outflow?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

KE2KB said:


> Do you think spending $35 for a dual laser and probably some addn features is worthwhile?
> 
> Edit: I ordered the Etekcity Lasergrip 660 (dual laser). I think the dual laser will make it more useful for pinpointing components in my computer, for one. I have come up with dozens of uses for this thing already!



Laser therm is a waste of money.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/flir-on...8688&ksprof_id=10&ksaffcode=pg7766&ksdevice=c

Those are also made for droids.

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/f...CxQmdwAcWg-7vDFKCID9jbvypcalfw6qAsaAmSd8P8HAQ

That one is entry level, but a good all around use one.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

Tom738 said:


> Do you have a stuffed top shelf maybe blocking the airflow once it's in the fridge? Or in the freezer blocking the outflow?


Fridge and freezer were stuffed to the gills when we first discovered the problem, but have cleaned out both since. Not stuffed, nothing blocking airflow now.

Interestingly, I plugged the Kill-A-Watt into the upright deep freeze in the basement last night, and this morning found that it had run 100% of the time. It is more efficient, uses only 104W (110VA) compared to the 200W (240VA) the fridge uses, and 320W (410VA) that the 40yr old fridge in the basement uses - but still, I wouldn't expect it to run 100%. Temp in the basement is 80F. Inside the freezer, temp is +2.7 F. I had turned the temp lower because I thought it was too warm for a deep freeze. IMHO, deep freeze should never go above 0F.
Again, nothing blocking airflow.
May need to have its condenser coils cleaned, but I don't know where they are! Nothing in the manual whatsoever about cleaning coils, and I can't see them by removing the kickplate or looking in back.

Honestly, I like the design of the 40yr old fridge best of all. It has no forced air - just evaporator coils in both fridge and freezer. Sure, if you place stuff right against the back wall it will freeze, but at least there is no airflow to block.

Perhaps what I should do with the 25yr old fridge in the kitchen (the one I am mainly concerned about) is remove everything, drag it out to the back porch, tip it on its side to expose the underneath, and give it a real good cleaning. I bet there are still dirty condenser coils down there that I couldn't reach with the brush or vacuum. But even I think that is going a bit too far.

My big beef is that a new fridge probably won't perform all that much better, considering. The newer fridges are all made cheap - I have read many reviews of trouble with even bran-new fridges.
It really bugs me. It's almost impossible to get anything in this world that is made with quality anymore. But then, why am I making such a fuss over a $800 fridge when I had to spend $30,000 on my car. Lucky for me, I have had no trouble with my Subaru Forester over 11 years.

OK. I have ranted enough. It's time to take the plunge.

FW


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

beenthere said:


> Laser therm is a waste of money.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/flir-on...8688&ksprof_id=10&ksaffcode=pg7766&ksdevice=c
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, my droid cannot double as an IR thermometer. Its camera is not capable even to focus on UPC or QR codes, and can't take photos for depositing checks - it has fixed focus. It is a Huawei Glory - but I only paid $29 (reconditioned from Tracfone) for it.

Why would I want to spend $399, or even $149 for an IR thermometer? I have no professional use for it - it is just a household tool I want to use for reference, and it is also an "adult toy" that I enjoy having.
Sure, if I could have afforded a more sophisticated one, like the $399 imager, I would have gone for it - but my budget is limited for stuff like that.

I am quite happy with the Lasergrip 630. It's already been very helpful in troubleshooting the fridge, and is a lot of fun to play with. If these things were around when I was in High School, kids would have brought them to school, and I am sure someone would have had an eye injury due to the laser. At least that kind of thing would be better than taking a gun to school!
Anyway - I plan to have this tool for a long time. If I had bought an attachment for my phone (if that had been possible), I would have had no use for it 2 years down the road when I replace my phone.

While on the subject of thermometers, I am trying to buy a new wireless thermometer to monitor outdoor temp and humidity. I have one old Radio Shack that is still working, but I need another for upstairs. I was looking into Bluetooth, so I could use my phone as the display unit, but they are significantly more expensive than the standard wireless. I can't understand that. Why should something that is only a sensor/transmitter cost more than the whole set (transmitter - receiver)?
Is it just anything with the name "Bluetooth" in it has to cost more?

FW


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

> Why would I want to spend $399, or even $149 for an IR thermometer? I have no professional use for it - it is just a household tool I want to use for reference, and it is also an "adult toy" that I enjoy having.


They can show you short coming with a homes insulation an air infiltration. Along with electrical problems. 

Also some brakes problems on vehicles.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bluetooth is a more advance technology then what off the shelf wireless units use.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

beenthere said:


> They can show you short coming with a homes insulation an air infiltration. Along with electrical problems.
> 
> Also some brakes problems on vehicles.


I think the $35 IR thermometer I purchased will also help to point to the leaky spots in the house. Not as much info, but enough. Sometimes, even a well placed hand can do the job.


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## Ultrarunner2017 (Oct 1, 2008)

beenthere said:


> Bluetooth is a more advance technology then what off the shelf wireless units use.


So, perhaps I would be better off with Bluetooth? I guess I'll have to check the apps available for Android and compare them to what I will get from an off-the-shelf wireless model. I would expect a more comprehensive set of data using the smartphone.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

KE2KB said:


> I think the $35 IR thermometer I purchased will also help to point to the leaky spots in the house. Not as much info, but enough. Sometimes, even a well placed hand can do the job.



IR thermometers aren't good for leak detection. Tried it several times. IR camera/imager spots them very quickly. A hand at a cold window in the winter, will feel like a cold air is hitting it.When its just the hands heat being drawn from it.

Get one that connects to your phone via USB port. 

Yes, they cost more then a thermometer. But they do much more.


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