# Repainting over flat white latex paint on drywall.



## etherag (Nov 9, 2009)

So I just bought a house (my first!). It's two years old, and has drywall walls that were painted with flat white latex paint. I'm pretty sure it was primed, as there is some leftover primer in the basement. I've never painted before, so I've been doing a ton of research on how to do it, but I have a few questions about the specifics of painting over my specific walls.

1) Do I need to sand the walls? If so, do I need to sand hard to get everything off or just lightly to scuff it up and let the paint stick better? Is 220 grit the right stuff?

2) What should I wash the walls with? Hot water? Hot water with dishsoap? TSP? Hot water with Lysol? Do I need to really scrub them or just well enough to get the sanding dust off the wall?

3) There are a few places where the previous paint cracked at the border between the metal corner caps and the drywall... should I just spackle over this, or should I dig it out a bit so that there's more room for the spackle to get in there? Some of the inside corners also have seams/cracks in the paint. How should I fix those? Is there a good way to do that? 

4) We have our colors chosen, most of which are medium to light neutral colors, which I think should cover fine without priming. However, we have a deep red for one wall and a cornflower blue for one room. Will I definitely need to get a dark primer for these, or should I just try putting a coat or two of the color and hope for the best, with adding a third coat being my last resort?

5) We have ceiling fans in some of the rooms... Assuming we wash the walls well, completely cover the floors with tarps and dust them first, would leaving the fans on help the walls dry faster, or am I asking for trouble?

Thanks for the help!


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## ProPainter (Nov 9, 2009)

1. no you should not need to sand the walls prior to painting them, as long as they are already painted once and feel farely smooth and in good shape
2. do not wash your walls, if there is dust on the walls then you should wipe with a barely damp rag or just use a feather duster
3.for most of these cracks you can simply go over the crack with a lightweight spackle, if the cracks are really large then you will need to dig them out a bit and use drywall patching compound and a wider blade putty knife. After doing any of this make sure to allow the product to dry then sand smooth.
4. for the red get a medium grey tinted primer (the blue depending on it's depth of tone may not need primer). I know getting a grey primer sounds weird but trust me that it will help the final coat (it will still take 2-3 coats over the primer) really have a nice finish and give you the truest color
5. leave the fans off until you are finished painting then turn them on. if the fans are on while you are painting dust might be flung around the room, however, I love using fans to help the room dry after I am done painting.
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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

1. You need to sand anything you do not like about the walls. 

2. Only an psychotic idiot would suggest a feather dusting as a reasonable approach to paint prep. Wash them TSP or something like Purple Power from the auto store if you have had smokers in the house or if it is greasy. Use any nice, strong, non-residual detergent. Rinse again with water.

3. Spackle was a godless concept for students wanting to get their parent's security deposits back. It is useful only for small holes. It can be painted over immediately which is nice in only those circumstances. You need to get yourself on a 1-5 gallon bucket of drywall mud. And buy a 4" and 12" drywall knife and pan when at it.

If the cracks on your exterior seams are minor you might be able to get away with compound and blending things in. If there is major separation between the drywall and metal strips you will have to add nails to them that should have been there in the first place or start over from my experience. Either way expect a temporary mess as you put force on the strip and seem to chip even more drywall compound off. 

As for the interior corners, if they are coming loose? They were probably not taped well in the first place. You may have to take them off and start over too. Otherwise you can try that 12" knife I told you to buy and see if you can buy time. First time the walls shift again though? If never taped properly in the first place? It will pop up again and you will be back at it. 

Good news is drywall compound is cheap. The basic tools I suggested will be yours for life if you keep them clean and will set you back under $50 at your paint store. Get good ones!

4. You need to plan on two finish coats of good, paint store paint (not box store crap), especially for your dark walls. I find using a primer easier to help making the bridge from light colors to dark. Have the paint store mix in up to 60 percent of the same color formula you have in mind into the primer and you will be good to go. 

5. Unless your place is a filthy mess leaving the ceiling fans on should not hurt anything and the added ventilation is always a good idea when available. 

Prep is the hardest for DIYers to get their head around but makes it all worthwhile when it comes to painting. Not only will making your space as clean and dust free as possible it will make the work go so much faster and you will really like the end result more.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

ProPainter said:


> 2. do not wash your walls, if there is dust on the walls then you should wipe with a barely damp rag or just use a feather duster
> 3.for most of these cracks you can simply go over the crack with a lightweight spackle,


You are a comedy act just abusing DIYs right?:furious:


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## etherag (Nov 9, 2009)

sdsester said:


> 2. Only an psychotic idiot would suggest a feather dusting as a reasonable approach to paint prep. Wash them TSP or something like Purple Power from the auto store if you have had smokers in the house or if it is greasy. Use any nice, strong, non-residual detergent. Rinse again with water.


Sounds like a plan... I'll pick up a detergent today...



sdsester said:


> 3. Spackle was a godless concept for students wanting to get their parent's security deposits back. It is useful only for small holes. It can be painted over immediately which is nice in only those circumstances. You need to get yourself on a 1-5 gallon bucket of drywall mud. And buy a 4" and 12" drywall knife and pan when at it.


There are no large holes, and the seams I'm talking about are no thicker than a few strands of hair. Just enough to be visible. I have drywall mud and knives already, should I use that or spackle? (I assume not spackle as you seem to have a hatred of it).




sdsester said:


> As for the interior corners, if they are coming loose? They were probably not taped well in the first place. You may have to take them off and start over too. Otherwise you can try that 12" knife I told you to buy and see if you can buy time. First time the walls shift again though? If never taped properly in the first place? It will pop up again and you will be back at it.


They're not loose. Again, these are very thin lines right at the joint. I've read on This Old House that a small bead of latex caulk pushed into the crack with a wet finger or paint brush is a good solutions to this... thoughts? I really don't want ot have to remove the old tape, since that would set me back an extra day for it to dry, but if I have to do it, I guess that's what I'll do.



sdsester said:


> 4. You need to plan on two finish coats of good, paint store paint (not box store crap), especially for your dark walls. I find using a primer easier to help making the bridge from light colors to dark. Have the paint store mix in up to 60 percent of the same color formula you have in mind into the primer and you will be good to go.


I went with Valspar premium paint, which consumer reports rated highly. It's availble at paint stored, but I bought it at lowe's because it was cheaper for the same valspar premium... Hopefully that won't come back to bite me.



sdsester said:


> 5. Unless your place is a filthy mess leaving the ceiling fans on should not hurt anything and the added ventilation is always a good idea when available.


Awesome, I will do that. The place is pretty clean, and I'll make sure to dust the tops of the fans because I use them.



sdsester said:


> Prep is the hardest for DIYers to get their head around but makes it all worthwhile when it comes to painting. Not only will making your space as clean and dust free as possible it will make the work go so much faster and you will really like the end result more.


Thanks for the suggestions!


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## ProPainter (Nov 9, 2009)

*sdsester giving away bad information*

DO NOT USE A DETERGEANT ON THE WALLS- Very bad idea. Completely needless and will most likely harm your walls. Spackle used correctly is extremely effective as I said unless you need major repairs done. Sdsester obviously has not idea what they are talking about. I have probably painted more high end homes then he has ever seen with results he/she could ever dream of obtaining. Why the heck would you WASH your walls. I have been in the industry for a long time and no professional in their right mind would agree with them. Obviously sdsester likes to think they are cute and smart, however they are wrong on both accounts. Featherdusting will work fine as long as the dust is not ridiculous. If so then a damp rag is recommended. NEVER use a heavy duty soap or cleaner of any type on an interior wall. That is painting 101.


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## etherag (Nov 9, 2009)

ProPainter said:


> DO NOT USE A DETERGEANT ON THE WALLS- Very bad idea. Completely needless and will most likely harm your walls. Spackle used correctly is extremely effective as I said unless you need major repairs done. Sdsester obviously has not idea what they are talking about. I have probably painted more high end homes then he has ever seen with results he/she could ever dream of obtaining. Why the heck would you WASH your walls. I have been in the industry for a long time and no professional in their right mind would agree with them. Obviously sdsester likes to think they are cute and smart, however they are wrong on both accounts. Featherdusting will work fine as long as the dust is not ridiculous. If so then a damp rag is recommended. NEVER use a heavy duty soap or cleaner of any type on an interior wall. That is painting 101.


This Old House recommends:

Using a wet/dry vacuum, clear all the dust from the walls and trim. Wash the walls with a sponge, using warm water and dish soap. Scrub greasy or waxy spots. Wipe everything down one last time with clean water

I'll trust take their advice... thanks for help on the rest everyone! I'll post before and after shots. Project is starting in 2 hours : )


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## ProPainter (Nov 9, 2009)

Yes if you have grease or wax spots you will have to use a light dish detergeant, but don't use a powerful soap. From the original post it appeared the walls were in overall decent condition and I would not expect there to be much dust on them unless you choose to sand them. A shop vac is fine to use, just try to make sure not to damage the wall with the vacuum head and try not to scuff up the walls too much. These scuff marks can be difficult to cover with a light colored paint. 

When I worked in the retail environment in a specialty paint store many years ago it was because of advice like that of the other poster that kept us busy advising people on how to repair the damage that had been done. This old house is also more of a construction show and not a painting show. I have probably painted more than whoever is on their show suggesting this. Keep in mind, that no two painters are going to give you the same advice and you ultimately have to weigh your options and do what you think is best. Good luck.


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## Sprayboy (Oct 21, 2009)

Nothing quite like the smell of Behr Ultra premium in the morning! :laughing:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

"propainter" quotes NEVER use a heavy duty soap or cleaner of any type on an interior wall. That is painting 101. 

I am wondering where you have read painting 101,I would like to see that version. Also this infamous quote"Spackle used correctly is extremely effective" Lightweight spackle in only good for filling nail holes and even that it is not so good, worthless material.

" I have been in the industry for a long time and no professional in their right mind would agree with them."

I have also been in this industry a very long time and must be wacko :yes:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

chrisn said:


> I have also been in this industry a very long time and must be wacko :yes:


Yes, Chris but you never worked at the counter of a "specialty" paint store! I am sure you are wacko though. :thumbup:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Sprayboy said:


> Nothing quite like the smell of Behr Ultra premium in the morning! :laughing:


Read the poor guy's response to my posting. He got paint at Lowe's disguised for Halloween as real paint under the name brand Valspar! He was not lucky enough to have the Home Depot crap near him.:furious::laughing:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

ProPainter said:


> Featherdusting will work fine.


Love it, just absolutely love it!:wink::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Yea, the feather duster is the first thing I pack into the job site, that and the spackle:laughing: and lets not forget that specialty paint.:no:


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

Anyone that has cleaned surely realizes a feather duster DOES NOT remove all the dust, but a damp cloth will.
Personally, I wanted my walls as clean as possible before painting. I washed the walls before repairs and after each layer of mud and sanding. By doing so, I knew each application of joint compound and/or paint was being applied to a very clean, dry surface. End result is quite beautiful.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

chrisn said:


> Yea, the feather duster is the first thing I pack into the job site, that and the spackle:laughing: and lets not forget that specialty paint.:no:


Just feather dusted and spackled a new job. It took awhile to dump out 400 little cans of the stuff into my drywall tray but it went on smooth with my 12" blade. Since you cannot dry or wet sand the stuff, I hope I got the texture right. Not sure what to do about the dust I had to shake off the feather duster though? Right now it is clinging to the baseboards along with pet hair and I need to paint them tomorrow. Should I vacuum and wash the floors or just feather dust them too enough for the brush to clear? I don't want anything to mess up my Valspar wall surfaces. Behr semi was on sale for $4 quart so I got me bunch with a pack of brushes in all sizes for $5.:thumbup:


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

LOL...sounds like a great plan sd. Spackle kinda puts me in mind of marshmallow creme; I try not to get the containers mixed up to avoid spackle in the hot chocolate.

Btw....I have a really nice feather duster made with real ostrich feathers if any of you guys need it. Let me know and I'll ship within the continental US.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

sdsester said:


> Just feather dusted and spackled a new job. It took awhile to dump out 400 little cans of the stuff into my drywall tray but it went on smooth with my 12" blade. Since you cannot dry or wet sand the stuff, I hope I got the texture right. Not sure what to do about the dust I had to shake off the feather duster though? Right now it is clinging to the baseboards along with pet hair and I need to paint them tomorrow. Should I vacuum and wash the floors or just feather dust them too enough for the brush to clear? I don't want anything to mess up my Valspar wall surfaces. Behr semi was on sale for $4 quart so I got me bunch with a pack of brushes in all sizes for $5.:thumbup:


 
You're good to go:thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

saggdevil said:


> LOL...sounds like a great plan sd. Spackle kinda puts me in mind of marshmallow creme; I try not to get the containers mixed up to avoid spackle in the hot chocolate.
> 
> Btw....I have a really nice feather duster made with real ostrich feathers if any of you guys need it. Let me know and I'll ship within the continental US.


 
I already have two in my tool box, one foe each hand,time equals $ you know.:wink:


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## saggdevil (May 17, 2009)

Then again, maybe the feather dusters are reserved for Behr and Valspar jobs only....just to maintain the quality consistency.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

chrisn said:


> I already have two in my tool box, one foe each hand,time equals $ you know.:wink:


Yeah sure. Prove you are not lying and post the pictures. Did you get yours from this guy?:laughing:

http://www.featherdusterdepot.com/

By the way Chris, I trusted you. The baseboards look a bit dusty and hairy. Is this normal? I tossed the $5 pack of disposable brushes and the feather duster's into the client's pool. OK?


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

On a side note, when we wash painted walls on insurance case (water damage) calls, we never reach for a detergent; knowing detergents a wee bit, I can say there are no compounded detegents out there that don't leave a sticky residue. The exception to this is **** and Span. TSP is equivalent although cheaper, but no insurance company would accept a preparation step for a painted wall washed with a detergent, if it is to be repainted. 
:no:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

ccarlisle said:


> On a side note, when we wash painted walls on insurance case (water damage) calls, we never reach for a detergent; knowing detergents a wee bit, I can say there are no compounded detegents out there that don't leave a sticky residue. The exception to this is **** and Span. TSP is equivalent although cheaper, but no insurance company would accept a preparation step for a painted wall washed with a detergent, if it is to be repainted.
> :no:


TriSodiumPhosphate (TSP) is one of the oldest detergent components on the face of the planet. So is S&S which includes TSP or trisodiumcalcinate. What a nonsense comment. Insurance companies denying coverage because you washed walls before painting? When they were no doubt racing to cover water damage in the first place? List the names so we avoid them. :furious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate


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## RegeSullivan (Dec 8, 2006)

Etherag,

I am guessing you can pick out the bad advice and disregard it on your own. Just want to mention not to use a household cleaner (detergent included) for some of the reasons listed above. Use TSP, it works and it's cheap. Just be sure to rinse it well because like all detergents it will leave a residue. I like to shop vac everything with the wide floor brush including the ceiling before washing it down with the TSP.

As far as sanding goes. Not a bad idea in my opinion. You don't have to go crazy. A light once over with a drywall screen on a pole is quick and gets most of those little nubs off the wall from bad drywall finish and past roller boogers. Of course, if you are going to do this, do it before you vac everything down.

Good luck.

Rege


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

From wikipedia. 

Plain water, if used for cleaning, is a detergent. Probably the most widely-used detergents other than water are soaps or mixtures composed chiefly of soaps. However, not all soaps have significant detergency and, although the words "detergent" and "soap" are sometimes used interchangeably, not every detergent is a soap.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

TSP (trisodium phosphate) is one of many 'builder' salts, as are zeolites, and silicates; a "detergent" is a compounded mixture of surfactants, mostly anioinic and nonionic, plus builder salts, plus a number of other ingredients put in there for specific reason - like foam stability etc. I use TSP (which has a function of a detergent) and maybe **** n Span like the book tells us to do, but laundry, dish, and some general purpose detergents are way too loaded with anionics that they leave a residue that, OK, can be rinsed off - but that's an extra step. 

Same process in carpet or upholstery cleaning. The minimum amount of a surfactant that is needed in a solution in order to affect detergency (in terms of lowering surface tension etc) is 0.01% of a 100% active surfactant (and most built detergents out there used way more than that) especially carpet shampoos. That's why rotary shampoo methods of carpet cleaning are obsolete and now carpet cleaning detergents are mostly salts and why water damage insurance underwriters don't require carpet cleaning with foam shampoo methods. Hot water extraction only...

Not all walls will benefit from a TSP rinse; but where there's grease, TSP is a polyphosphate and has a synergisitic effect in terms of water-softening and soil suspension. It has a high pH and as pointed out is cheap. It forms a soap naturally... 

Also pointed out by some cut-and-paste artist above are the often interchangeable terms: 'soaps' and 'detergents'...I'll leave that one and let this guy sort himself out. :laughing:

As for water being a detergent, I don't have time to explain that to him; the words would be too long.:wink:

The OP and the rest can take this info to the bank.:yes:

PS: there's no such compound as "trisodium calcinate"


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## mike6x7 (Mar 28, 2009)

Man you guys love to argue!


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

There's no arguing over facts. There _is_ over opinions - and opinions of facts too - however and here we have a few guys expressing their opinions so you get arguments. No-one's right and no-one's wrong...But I'll bet that if you put three painters from 3 different backgrounds from 3 different parts of the country in the same room looking at the same paint job to do, they'd probably come up with the same plan of action - even though they disagree here.

I also think people come to argue to make themselves feel important.:yes:

I see alot of people - like the OP perhaps - who read a website that says "add dish detergent to wash walls before painting", and I see people with soapy, sudsy water washing their walls down without rinsing. Bad idea...:no: 

So then there's the issue of _how much _detergent do you add? It's actually about a drop in a 5-gallon bucket. Same concentration as you have in windshield washer detergent for your car - or in 'Windex' glass cleaner. It's there - but you don't see bubbles do you? Imagine if you _did_ get bubbles on your windshield travelling at night at 70mph! 

TSP is a "detergent" in a sense..it cleans, but makes no bubbles. Rinses clean too. That's why it is used in washing walls before painting - whereas a compounded detergent to clean your garbage can is not. 

I carry around a feather-type duster in my van, as well as a Swiffer-type mop, a Shop Vac, as well as TSP, dish detergent and "Mean Green" detergent...depends on the job that needs doing. No 2 jobs are alike.


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## mike6x7 (Mar 28, 2009)

peace, I know everyone has opinions and there are facts. some learn from the the pro's and some ARE pro's and some learned to paint from fingerpainting on Seasome Street ( That would be me  ) . I'm just basically non-confrontational, so I would just post my opinion and not tell someone else they were stupid for their opinion. Just give the reason they were wrong and let the DIY'r pick out from the facts of the majority. Not trying to start anything............


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_"Not trying to start anything..."_

I know; didn't think you were. Arguments provoke reflection and maybe - just maybe - provokes what 'advancement' is all about: coming up with a plan; trying it out; adjusting it to make it better; testing it out again; readjusting it; retesting it... etc etc

That's how theorems are born and become scientific fact. Theories are dreamt up, put to the test, tried out, adjusted, tried again, readjusted... _ad infintum_ until no-one else can challenge the theory and change it. Then it becomes almost a fact... 

Then there's the "unprovables"...like, can anyone here 'prove' that Benjamin Moore paints are better than some other brand? They can't, but there is so much evidence that they are better on levels than matter to most painters that it almost becomes gospel.

And just because someone has no problems with using _x_ detergent on a wall doesn't mean that's a representative sample...just that one guy's opinion - and I cannot afford to base my production and my reputuation on _that..._nor can anyone else.:yes:


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## JMartin58 (Mar 20, 2012)

*JMartin58*

Sorry sdsester,
Pro Painter is right and you're wrong. I've been painting for 31 years now so I know. Propainter isn't snarky like you are either so I'd recommend that others consider that as well. :laughing:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

JMartin58 said:


> Sorry sdsester,
> Pro Painter is right and you're wrong. I've been painting for 31 years now so I know. Propainter isn't snarky like you are either so I'd recommend that others consider that as well. :laughing:


you know this thread is 3 YEARS old? right?


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## annibelle (Mar 26, 2010)

LOL, I have prepped myself to death, but I must say it has turned out beautiful for old paneling and new sheetrock. I now have another newbie question. I used the painter's blue tape and Behr and Glidden paint mixed from Home Depot. It made a flat washable base color. Around the doors and one spot on the floor baseboard, the paint peeled off down to the undercovering of the drywall. It peeled right off with the tape and it was like the paint and the tape were one. It has been rainy outside so I was wondering if this has anything to do with it? It is down to the bare wall only in a few places. It seem smooth, but I most likely will test sanding the edges or putting some kilz on the bare spots and touch up those areas. I am not sure about joint compound on those places or not. Help me out yet again. I am so proud of my efforts, but these goofs need to be addressed before I continue.Thanks


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## JMartin58 (Mar 20, 2012)

*Jmartin58*

Chrisn, What difference does it make that the thread is 3 yrs. old?


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## JMartin58 (Mar 20, 2012)

*JMartin58*

Annibelle, Are you saying that you taped off the moulding around the door and then when you pulled it off the paint came with it? Perhaps it wasn't primed initially. I often encounter situations where the people didn't do the prep work properly or didn't use a primer over bare wood and then they have problems that they want me to correct but this can be difficult unless all of the paint is removed down to the bare wood and then start from scratch.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

JMartin58 said:


> Chrisn, What difference does it make that the thread is 3 yrs. old?


 
Sooooo, you are a feather duster kind of guy?:laughing:


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## annibelle (Mar 26, 2010)

I know I did prime the area, but hopefully where the spots are were some I missed. In fact I put on two coats of primer-Zin. I could have not got the very edges right by the door. It could have also been still drying as it was damp here yesterday. Normally, I have used the heater and fan both, but yesterday kept on painting, etc. I will check it in abit and prime and paint touch up again. Thanks for responding. I never thought the old wall would have turned out so nicely, but I did do my very best prep ever! LOL. I just missed a few spots and it seems like it was mainly about the door frame on one side. I also see a shine under near where my brother had used silicone. He may put more there, but I don't see a need. It is not that noticeable and I did sand it before I painted it. Maybe I should prime over that one little section and repaint it. It is not that big of a job.


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## JMartin58 (Mar 20, 2012)

*JMartin58*

Chrisyn, Am I a feather duster kind of guy? Well, sometimes!!! :laughing:

It depends, case by case. I never use horsehair brushes though as I think that stinks. :furious: Leave the horses out on the range where they belong is what I always say. :yes:

Annibelle, Always be sure that the caulk you use says that it is "Paintable" otherwise you'll have problems. ::huh:


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