# The Big Dig! (redoing a retaining wall around my driveway)



## teamcampreder

Hi All,

So after lots of consulting with all of you, the people at Versalok, and my local landscaping supply center, I finally broke ground on my retaining wall project. I figured I would keep everyone posted on here.

I am replacing about 40 x 2-6 ft (the grade rises) of rubble wall that surrounds my driveway. It is subsiding heavily and needs to be done. I am digging about six feet back all the way around, to make room for my geogrid and backfill. I am doing about 12 inches of trap rock directly behind the wall, with a 4 inch drain tile at the bottom which will terminate at the far end of the wall. I plan on doing the geogrid @ 2 and 4 feet.

Here are some pics of the site before, and day 1 of digging.

The obligatory before shot..









And a few of Day 1s Progression









































End of Day 1











Any suggestions on what I should do with all that rock that I am pulling out?


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## Blondesense

teamcampreder said:


> Any suggestions on what I should do with all that rock that I am pulling out?


Craigslist?

Awesome job, BTW.


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## no1hustler

Geez, hand digging? You are nuts! 

You can bring that rock down to me. I need something for edging my garden.


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## Thunder Chicken

Blondesense said:


> Craigslist?
> 
> Awesome job, BTW.



Ditto on the Craigslist suggestion. Somewhere someone is trying to get rocks for a wall. I moved 10 tons of rock out of my yard by connecting with a mason looking for stone for a wall. They did all the pick up.


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## Ironlight

I have gotten rid of a couple of cubic yards of plain dirt...not even topsoil...through Craig's List. Post a photo of that wall before you take it down, and your phone will probably be ringing off the hook. You won't even have to move the rocks...just have them pick the wall apart, lol


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## teamcampreder

Wow didn't even think about craigslist! Thanks!


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## Ravenworks

teamcampreder said:


> Wow didn't even think about craigslist! Thanks!


Quarry rock like that is about $100 a ton


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## teamcampreder

So as it turns out my Uncle has a John Deere Series 4 Tractor... w/ a front loader and a backhoe!!! I actually knew this, but he lives about an hour away, and didn't know he had a way of getting it off his property. We got a lot done in the rain today. He did the majority of the work, but my stepdad and I moved the big stones while he moved the dirt. It went really well. Enjoy some pics 









Daughter and Wife, being helpy helpers









Uncle Gary, just getting started.









Keeping it old fashioned. Actually this was the rock removal process.









Gary letting me take it for a spin. This thing is AWESOME. If I had more than .17 acres, I could justify it.









Backyard O' Dirt









This was about 2 hours later. He moved about 40' x 3' x 6' of dirt (mostly wet clay) in 2 HOURS. Godsend


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## teamcampreder

By the way, Craiglist for the rocks was a great suggestion. I posted on Wednesday, and all the stones that were pull-able were GONE by Thursday. Another days work saved right there from you guys. This place is the BEST.

First pic above is a great example of what the wall was reduced too after the stone pickers came.


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## Ravenworks

You may want to cover the face of your cut and your spoil piles with plastic before you have nothing but mud to work with,a roll can be had for under $50
The only reason I say this is because I don't think being DIY you will have it built in a course of a day or two.I would of had a couple bales of straw towards the end of your drive for run off too. Looks like you have a good start.


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## teamcampreder

I will definitely get on that today, thanks for the heads up ravenworks.


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## no1hustler

Great progress!

+1 for the bails to collect runoff.


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## CoconutPete

What's up fellow CT resident!

Looks like you did a lot of hand-digging. I have an idea about how you feel right now. I dug up a 12x12 space 10" down and filled w/ crusher run and I walked like a 90 yr old for days.

How is the project holding up with all the rain? My lot has a few "lakes" in the back - hopefully they'll be gone by the time I get home tonight.


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## teamcampreder

Blocks came today... Coconut pete, whats up, gotta love that CT clay soil.


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## teamcampreder

I have a relatively large crew coming tomorrow (5 people), and we are at the point where we need to dig out the trench for the leveling pad and base course. I thought it would be smart to mark off the area I want dug with some kind of spray or chalk. I have to run to home depot today to get a rubber mallet anyway, does anyone have any suggestions?


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## Ravenworks

teamcampreder said:


> I have a relatively large crew coming tomorrow (5 people), and we are at the point where we need to dig out the trench for the leveling pad and base course. I thought it would be smart to mark off the area I want dug with some kind of spray or chalk. I have to run to home depot today to get a rubber mallet anyway, does anyone have any suggestions?


Rubber mallet for what?
Do you have glue for the wall stones?
Do you have crushed stone for the footing and a plate tamper to compact the stone?
Are you going to put under drain behind the wall followed by # 57's for drainage?


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## teamcampreder

I have the crushed stone for the footing (versalok documentation calls it a leveling pad, I guess we are talking about same thing). You can actually see it in front of the garage in my last picture.

I have the glue, but am only using it for the cap stones, per versalok guidelines. The SRW units have interlocking pins, and should not be glued to allow some flexing during freeze thaw cycles.

The rubber mallet is to make fine tuned adjustments to the blocks once I am building up to get everything flush, again recommended by Versalok. I tried it while I was re stacking the blocks and found it to be very helpful. I wouldn't want to use my hammer for risk of cracking the block or scoring the face.

I do have the 4 inch drain that is going to run along the back of the base course.

I don't know what #57s are, but using context clues, I assume you mean the 3/4th inch drainage aggregate, which I don't have yet, but just need to call for the dump truck to bring it. I didn't have it come at the same time as everything else, because I needed to consolidate the pallets of blocks.

I have a hand tamper which I am going to use for the footing, but will be using a plate compactor for the back-filling process. My boss actually owns one, and is going to let me borrow it, which is great! I have hand tamped other things around my property and don't mind it as much as everyone said I would, just going to take my time.

Maybe you misunderstood my question, I was really asking about any products that could be used to safely mark off dirt, like a spray or chalk product, without contamination. I had some flags left over from when I called 811 (call before you dig), and marked off the work area with those so we could all dig at the same time.

Thanks anyway


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## Ravenworks

Before you even start you need to get excellent compaction on your footer,this is the single _*MOST*_ important thing besides drainage. 
If you have already started you need to seriously consider what I am about to say and possibly take down what you already have up.
Once you own a wall you will notice how other peoples walls end up wavy and the root cause is improper footing or bed as you called it

To achieve this:
*Forget the hand tamper* and use the _*plate tamper*_ ; compact it 1/2" to 1" high. Then cut it back down with a screed (board) using a string line or transit.This will assure you a solid virgin bed to build from.
_*I can not stress enough how important this step is.*_
Yes # 57 gravel is 3/4" and # 8's are about 3/8" to 1/2"
As for paint buy marking paint that is chalk based.
As for the mallet,use a block of wood and a hammer and save the money you paid for it and buy beer.
If you didn't have a mallet I will be over with my block of wood if you got beer !!!


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## teamcampreder

Sunday's Work:

Consolidated the blocks to make room for the drainage aggregate (#57). There is no access to my backyard from anywhere on the property, so the driveway has to hold all the materials.










And another shot for good measure










Regarding the plate compactor, I will consider it raven, but its worth mentioning that you are the only one out of my many sources who has said the hand tamper will not do the job right. Is it more difficult and time consuming? Yes. I don't mind that. It seems to me though that it will acheive the same level of compaction after a thorough pounding.

That being said, you put the bug in my ear, and I REALLY only want to do this once, so I may end up renting one for next week now. I know your simply trying to assist, and I appreciate that.


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## itsnotrequired

looks like an easy site layout for using a plate tamper, certainly something to consider.


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## Ravenworks

A hand tamper and a plate tamper can not even be compared,I know you are putting a butt load of work into this.
On a serious note,here is what I would do,rent the tamper on a Sat afternoon and take it back on Monday and pay one day rental.
As I said before,the first course is the most important.
Next,order more crushed stone you don't have near enough,the first course of block only need to be installed 1/2 way into the ground . "stone is cheaper than block"
See if you can barrow a transit or one of those DIY lasers and shoot a couple places so you can transfer your elevations to a batter board,
Employ the string line from the batter boards for the first two or three courses then use a two foot level from there .
Wait until you get at least three courses installed before you install drain tile (pipe),then back fill with stone,alternating to dirt to tie into your existing dirt as you build.
The dirt will help hold the stone back as you come up
The stone needs to come all the way up as you build at least two feet wide from the wall.
We set Volkswagen size blocks on highways all the time and believe it or not they rest on crushed stone most of the time.


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## CoconutPete

Wow, this really is the "big dig". Looking good so far.

Weather looks like crap for the next few days, at least the weekend looks like it's going to be dry so far.


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## teamcampreder

So it has been pretty much raining all week, and the bottom of my trench is pretty wet. Its clay, and has about a 1/2 inch of give to it all the way around. I have the day off today though. Any thoughts on whether or not I can start filling in the gravel while that bottom part is that wet? 

I would definitely recompact and relevel before I started laying any blocks down.


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## jomama45

I would remove as much water, and "muck" out as much slime at the bottom as possible. Depending on how much "fines" are in your aggregate, and how wet it is, it maybe able to be compacted in. What we typically do is install a few inches of 1" fractured limestone (no fines) as it will typically absorb some of the moisture as well as bind tight any of the loose soil. The soil doesn't need to be as hard as a rock, the walls are intended to allow for some flex with frost, etc...

As for compacting, one more vote for the plate compacter, it will do a far superior job. We usually set a form on the inside to top of footing height, install & compact gravel in 3-4" lifts max., and screed the last lift off with a short level to ensure the pad is level front-to-back. Once completely compacted, the gravel should be 1/2" too 1" low, which is just enough to fine-level off with mason sand to get it perfect.

One last thing, unless you're going to be installing grid, there really is little need or use for a plate compactor for the backfilling process.

Good luck, those "babies" are 82#'s a piece.........:thumbsup:


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## Ravenworks

jomama45 said:


> I would remove as much water, and "muck" out as much slime at the bottom as possible. Depending on how much "fines" are in your aggregate, and how wet it is, it maybe able to be compacted in. What we typically do is install a few inches of 1" fractured limestone (no fines) as it will typically absorb some of the moisture as well as bind tight any of the loose soil. The soil doesn't need to be as hard as a rock, the walls are intended to allow for some flex with frost, etc...
> 
> As for compacting, one more vote for the plate compacter, it will do a far superior job. We usually set a form on the inside to top of footing height, install & compact gravel in 3-4" lifts max., and screed the last lift off with a short level to ensure the pad is level front-to-back. Once completely compacted, the gravel should be 1/2" too 1" low, which is just enough to fine-level off with mason sand to get it perfect.
> 
> One last thing, unless you're going to be installing grid, there really is little need or use for a plate compactor for the backfilling process.
> 
> Good luck, those "babies" are 82#'s a piece.........:thumbsup:


What he said 100 %


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## teamcampreder

Universe (and ravenworks): You win. 

I went outside today do some measuring and line leveling around the curve of the wall, and decided to just try 1 wheelbarrow full of gravel along about 10 feet (so only about a 1/2 inch) with the hand tamper.

It broke. About 10 tamps (?) in.

I concede. I have family plans this sunday, but will be vibratory compacting away next weekend. A big part of this was selling about another 500 into the project (overestimating) to my wife, but I referred her to this thread and she gave in lol. Thanks yall, will check back soon.


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## Ravenworks

You'll remember this thread every time you look at your straight wall for years to come.
I can't wait to see it done,by but don't rush to get it done.


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## teamcampreder

I wanted to run something by you guys. So a plate compactor is going to cost me 86 dollars for the day @ home depot, haven't really shopped that around too much yet but going to assume its at least somewhat competitive. I am going to need it for at least 5 days, now that I am using it for the base course, I actually am going to have two (the grade steps up around the driveway).

There are some slightly used (according to seller) ads for plate compactors on craigslist. I feel like if I put 500 dollars into one, I could get most of that if not all back when I was done with it. It seems like a pretty simple machine (lawnmower type engine attached to heavy metal plate...). Even if I buy it for 500 and sell it for 300 its still a win in my book.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Ravenworks

What brand of a tamper is it ? Make sure it has a Honda engine.
What you should do is call a equipment rental company and rent it by the week,you'll have a new machine for about $ 150 - $200 and be done with it.
Buying a tamper is your choice but I hate to see you spend money on something unknown. 
Nations rent is a pretty good choice as is Hertz.


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## teamcampreder

renting by the week really doesn't help me out, as I can only work on this project 1=2 days per week at best. 

I will take a look at them. Hertz does equipment? Did not know that. Thanks again.


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## teamcampreder

Found a place that can do it for 55 dollars for the weekend, so I am picking the compactor up on Friday. Woohoo!

Sorry for the lapse this weekend, my family did the Walk Against Hunger in Hartford, so I gave the crew a day off


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## teamcampreder

I expect to be laying down at least some of the base course this weekend, and want to get some stone dust or sand to do the finishing touch on leveling crushed stone footing. Will regular old HD sand do, (they have 50lb bags of or is there some kind of special product? It seems like HD has All Purpose Sand and Commerical grade sand by the same companies the do cement mixes, play sand (no), and Tube sand.

Where would I find stone dust?


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## Ravenworks

teamcampreder said:


> Where would I find stone dust?


Rock shop (quarry) or landscape supply
Your crushed stone alone should be fine for you footer,set it an inch hi and cut it down to you final height after compaction.If your stone is dry mist it a tad with water and mix it as you go this will help you with compaction.
Take your time because you are doing a good job so far, and this is the important step.


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## teamcampreder

Thanks Raven. That certainly makes things simpler. After I posted this I did some research, and your right, stone dust and sand are really not ideal according to what I read, way harder to compact.

You have kind of become my mentor on this project lol, and I appreciate all the time you have been spending with me on this. If this rain lets up hopefully I have the crushed stone all in the trench this weekend, and I will have some more pictures!


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## Ravenworks

Thanks and you are welcome but it is not a big deal,that's what we do around here help each other out.
Just take your time and don't rush it,things will come together all at once.


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## CoconutPete

Look forward to progress pics from this weekend!

I need a plate compactor too, can you post or PM me the name of the place you used whenever you catch your breath hehe?


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## CoconutPete

Beautiful day today! Hope you are making progress.


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## teamcampreder

Managed to get about 6 hours in yesterday, Mothers day made it difficult. So I have laid down my first stones! Here is the progress. I had not really grasped the change of elevation between the beginning and the end, and have concluded after yesterday that the footer is going to have to step up twice, to avoid burying multiple rows of blocks in the ground. Also got to use the plate compactor.. not the most user friendly machine, but it works. Definitely worth it for speedy consistent compaction.

This was the beginning of the day... plate compacting over my firs step of footing that I had hand tamped already and let settle all week. 









Starting to lay down the base course. VERY EXCITING!!!









This is the part where I realized that I wasn't going to have to step up once, but TWICE. Not a big deal, but just didn't see it that way in my head.









Spent about two hours getting these just right.









This was about as far as we got yesterday. If you follow the wall back, you can see blocks on top of eachother. I will get some close ups this week when its not raining.









The satisfaction of starting to build up as opposed to down yesterday was really great. I still have a long way to go, as the majority of the base course is not done, but it was a lot of mental progress!


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## Ravenworks

You are going to have to cut your caps on the radius.
Use a 4" or 6" grinder with a masonary blade on it,cut a score line all of the way around and separate with a sharp blow from a hammer and chisel.
Fill the back side of your first course with crushed stone then install your under drain.
Looks like you got a good start so far,remember take you time, and you'll have many years of enjoyment and bragging rights


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## jomama45

Ravenworks said:


> You are going to have to cut your caps on the radius.
> Use a 4" or 6" grinder with a masonary blade on it,cut a score line all of the way around and separate with a sharp blow from a hammer and chisel.
> Fill the back side of your first course with crushed stone then install your under drain.
> Looks like you got a good start so far,remember take you time, and you'll have many years of enjoyment and bragging rights


Good info, but I would make a minor adjustment: Make sure you install impervious material to at least grade on the front side of the wall before installing the draintile & washed stone. If you install clear washed stone directly on the gravel footing, you;ll promote water to migrate behind the wall rather than directing it to the front of the wall where it belongs.

One more piece of advise, from someone who has installed many base courses. Just set the course, fine tuning for level, and don't be over-concerned about the shape at first. You can always reset the first course if you don't like the results. We always have had a habit of driving 18"+ rebar into every other block in our first course to resist movement when backfilling, but not until we're completely satisfied with the shape & layout of the first course.........:thumbsup:


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## teamcampreder

When you say Impervious material, are you talking about some kind of fabric? I see what your saying, and definitely agree, I want the water going out my pipe, not soaking into the footing.


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## jomama45

teamcampreder said:


> When you say Impervious material, are you talking about some kind of fabric? I see what your saying, and definitely agree, I want the water going out my pipe, not soaking into the footing.


I would opt for gravel, the same gravel as you are using for the footing actually. Make sure to get the drain pipe just above the finished grade on the front side of the wall. It also doesn't hurt to pitch the gravel forward to promote water flow to the face of the block to expedite the drainage..........


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## teamcampreder

Oh ok. That's what I am doing already  I guess impervious in landscaping terms is different than impervious in other terms lol. I would use the term "A lot less pervious, but still a little pervious" haha

According to the detail drawings I have (pretty much the same as what you have there but with a few close ups), Versalok wants me to do the gravel footing up to approximately the level of the buried base course, and then behind the blocks, 2 inches of drainage aggregate, and then drainpipe sitting on top of that. It looks like that's what that drawing specifies as well.


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## teamcampreder

Got a solid days work in yesterday and about 1/2 a day in today, LOTS of progress.

The base course is totally done!! Woohoo. It ended up having 4 step ups on the footing, which is more than what I was estimating, but the way the street goes downhill we didnt realize what was actually level till we started putting the level on the blocks.

FYI, I took a few shots with a few courses of block up but not fill behind them, I am not going to backfill that way, but just really wanted to see how it would look with a few rows up while I waited for my drainage aggregate to come.









Home Stretch for base course. I am not a patient person, so the tedium of leveling was really driving my crazy at this point.









heres me seeing how my wall is going to look in a few weeks. This is also where my drainpipe is going to terminate.









Rounding the bend. I am hoping by the time I get up to the top (about 4 feet at this point), with the 3/4th inch offset I have enough radius in my curve to not cut caps, but I will do what I have too!









Wide Angle









I am going to need to cut this concrete back some how. Just the rough stuff that seems to have come out of the form. I have been whacking it with a sledge every day and have cut back a lot already, but struggling getting a clean cut with my chisel. Any suggestions that don't involve power tools? 









Heres a big shot of the whole site. Sorry for the shadow, a good photographer I am not.









When I was watching the video versalok gave me, I did not believe them when they said splitting blocks was as easy as scoring all the way around and then whacking it hard face down. Clearly, it is just that easy. I guess concrete fractures easier than I thought??









Sunday's work (and then some). 6 yards of drainage aggregate. The end is in sight folks!!!


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## Ravenworks

Why not cut the corner of the block instead of the concrete until you get past the over pour?


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## teamcampreder

I guess I could cut a little notch out of the back corners... I would like to have it as flush as possible.

I actually forgot to ask my biggest question!! So according to my versalock design specifications, they want me to lay down 2" of the drainage aggregate at grade level and then the drainpipe goes on top of that, with more gravel obviously. My drain area is going to be ~12 inches wide. How am I going to compact that though? Wouldnt the plate compactor crush the pipe if there are only a few inches on top of it? The pipe i have if plastic with a nylon sock over it.

I definitely want the two inches underneath, because it will allow me to have a smooth steady slope from top to bottom. The gravel/dirt that is back there right now is a little uneven.


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## Ravenworks

Put your 2" of stone in,grade it for fall,lay pipe and cover with stone,no compaction on the stone is needed.
When you start backfilling with dirt you"ll want to bring the stone up with the dirt in one foot lifts,then tamp the dirt,it won't hurt to run onto the stone if you must,however make sure you have a foot of stone on it first.
Even then don't hit the stone too hard there is no need to and you run the risk of adding deflection to your pipe. You may want to silt sock your pipe too.


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## teamcampreder

So I did some block modification yesterday to fit in that area of concrete over-pour on page 3, and it proved difficult to make look as seamless as I would like. It is only going to get harder as I go up the wall, also.

I had a thought today (wish I thought of this yesterday!). I have a decent corded drill and think I have some masonry bits (if not, I can buy some). I feel like if I drill holes and then chisel between the holes, I can remove a lot of material that way, without cutting blocks and without renting a cutoff saw for any extra days other than "cap day".

Lots done these past few days, but I worked into the night and didn't get to upload the pictures. Will get on that after work today.


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## Ravenworks

You are going to need a hammer drill,it sucks not having the right tools,I am spoiled,what ever I need that I don't have I can get from work.
Our little "Macho" demo hammer/drill would make short work of that.


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## teamcampreder

More photos!

So here it is with 2 inches of gravel all the way around. Please note, the drain pipe doesn't go upgrade at the end by the sidewalk, I just had a few blocks there that I was playing around with to see how the end of the wall would look. With how my driveway slopes, I have about 18 inches of drop that I was able to get nice and smooth with the drain gravel for my pipe.









This is the end of the day sunday, we had been working like hell on that stupid concrete, and my wife couldn't take any decent shots because of all the dust in the air!









Monday Morning, on my way out:









This part of the wall just needs caps now!!! Woohoo!


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## CoconutPete

Looks good! Just in time for another round of showers..... at least the 2nd half of the week should be good for you.


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## no1hustler

Looks like fun! What is taking so long?


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## teamcampreder

no1hustler said:


> Looks like fun! What is taking so long?


haha in all honesty I wanted to get another course of blocks filled in yesterday, but the concrete destruction on the high end has really slowed me down. I spent a few hours on sunday and few yesterday.

My plan worked though, I found some non hammer masonry drill bits, and have made it about 3/4ths of the way thru, so hopefully I finish that up after work today (weather permitting, not trying to electrocute myself haha). its awful and tedious, but I am already over budget, so doing stuff like this makes it easier to put money into the project when I REALLY need it.

I think this weekend will be a big one, I have all day thursday and friday, and most of sunday and monday. Wish me luck!


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## twostuds

Wow this looks like a ton of work, especially since you started with hand digging. Yikes! 

Can't wait to see the wall when it's all done, it's looking really good so far.


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## Ravenworks

Looks like good construction,good job on the back fill.
You may want to cut the one half block back to make it flush with the rest of the wall.
You could taper a swale at the end of your wall to aid in drainage control.


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## teamcampreder

Ravenworks said:


> You could taper a swale at the end of your wall to aid in drainage control.


I don't really know what that means... 

So from swale I got this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swale_%28landform%29

So inferring that you are talking about some kind of landform that will move water...

I plan having about 2-3 inches or so across 6 feet sloping down towards the wall all the way around it, to direct water into the drainage aggregate and pipe. With that, and the natural slope of the land that goes down from north to south (along the long side of the wall), water will not be able to pool anywhere. From what I am reading, that should be sufficient.

Regarding the end by the sidewalk I actually have that overhang of a 1/2 block on purpose. I plan on filling in that gaping hole with a few quarry rocks I have left over from the old wall, I think it will look ok because there are actually a few left over built right into the concrete wall that this wall butts up against. I just can't get in there until I am done because all my blocks waiting to be put up are right there.

I did, however, purchase a circular saw and a masonry blade on amazon yesterday (early fathers day present to myself haha), so if need be I can cut blocks smoothly now.

Also, I beat the concrete overpour last night! Will post pics today or tomorrow.


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## Ravenworks

Forget my post then it you are putting rocks in there,that is what I was talking about.
Looks good though.


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## teamcampreder

Got up @ 6:30 AM to get started, and just got inside an hour ago. Lots of progress!!

First of all, here is the the concrete I absolutely BEASTED (lol) on monday and tuesday nights. A Ryobi Drill, Vermont American Masonry Carbide Drill bits, a 4lb mallet and a mason's chisel was what I had to work with at the time, so it was time consuming, but I am stubborn S.O.B., and wanted to show it could be done by hand. I believe there is a shot on page 3 of the before, but I will post it again anyway...








and after









Heres my first round on geogrid. Easy stuff to work with, it pins down for Versalok between the pins that align the blocks, and on the back end I used wooden stakes. From what i read once everything is compacted the geogrid is using the soil to hold in place, not the stakes, so I specifically used wooden ones with the expectation of them to rot.









Heres a few shots of where we stand at the end of the day today. I really like how its coming together, and I am starting to get my backyard back!!!



























I ran out of blocks today, but my supplier admitted they made a miscalculation, and offered me free shipping on the revised block count. Harkens Garden Center, you rock!


I did decide to splurge on a circular saw, I went with a 5840 Skil 13 amp 7.25 inch, I picked up a masonry blade as well. That came today, and it cut up a few blocks no problem. That will make Cap Day MUCH easier, as I won't be rushing due to the rental time limit on the gas saw I was planning on getting.


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## Ravenworks

You could just terris (bench) your fill back from you wall and forget buying the extra block,then taper it up after about four feet.
Looking at the one shot you have I think it would look good,be safer (height=falls) and save you money.
Looks good


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## jomama45

Just to be sure, you do realize you need to compact the soil/granular material that you place over the grid IF you're placing another layer or two of grid over it, right?


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## teamcampreder

Lots of updates!

So I totally have to redact(sp?) my info of harkens garden center in east windsor CT. I went in there and talked to my main contact (Kristi) after doing some math on my own, and she looked me right in the eye, apologized for her mistake, and asked what she could for me to make it better. As a fellow salesperson, I can't give her enough credit for doing this. After selling yourself as an authority on the matter at hand, it takes a lot of cajones to look someone in the eye, and tell them you messed up. Long story short, they were willing to ship the blocks for free because it was their error. Normally this would be an extra $75 to me. I am impressed.

I have a crew coming over tomorrow (my little brother graduated today in upstate NY, so no work got done today), and I truely thing we are going to finish it off other than the caps. Will post updates.

Ravenworks: Not willing to terrace due to my lot being only 50 feet wide and wanting to get as much usuable yard out of this project as possible. As always, I appreciate your input, but I am going to go with my original plan on this one.

Jomaama: Yes I already backfilled and compacted over that layer, just wanted for everyone to see how it looks before you cover it.


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## teamcampreder

I will get some new photos soon, but just let everyone know, I am done with the blocks! All I have left are caps for the curve, which based on my curve's radius and the amount of stepups that occur on the curve, is going to take time. I got a circular saw (already regretting the 7 inch... it doesn't cut all the way through the caps lol), and the appropriate blade.

Any tips on this stage?


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## Ravenworks

Yea,I have an idea for you,put the saw away and use a grinder with a masonry blade on it,cut all the way around your cut to score it and wack it with a flat chisel and a hammer,it should go on the first hit.
Easy peasey


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## concretemasonry

There is nothing wrong with using a hammer and chisel to knock of some of the vertical "tails"of the segmental retaining wall block since they are burried and reall dont cary much, if any, load. Using a saw is slow and a waste of time.

Some systems also have matching cap block that are available in a 1:1 ratio (short front and short back) to be used on straight walls or on inside or outside corners. Just combine is them in the desired percentage and use them with full caps for any situation.

Dick


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## jomama45

If you want them to fit tight on the curve, I'm pretty sure you're going to be stuck cutting them with a saw. Can't speak for a circular saw, as I've only used a 14" cut-off saw, with good results BTW. 

You'll want to dry-set the caps as you go adjusting for the ideal front overhang (1" or so is what I prefer) and marking one cut at a time. I typically don't even measure, just simply use the 1"+- edge of the level to align with the previous edge. Then, mark the other side of the level. If you need to take more than 1" off of the block, "sight" it, and give it a shot. The real benefit (other than speed) here of the 14" cut-off saw is that you can fit the block together after the original cut drop the saw through the less-than-perfect cut, and open it up perfectly with the width of the blade though the entire depth, being careful not to score the wall block below.

I also snap or chisel the end of every cap at the exposure so that every visible (other the the top of the cap) part of the wall is rock faced. I do the same thing with the last block at a jump in the wall as well: Score the edge of the block 1/2-3/4" deep through the middle, lay the block upside down chisel the top 3" that will be seen above the cap, and set the block in upside down in the wall so the pin slots are hidden. If this doesn't make sense, I may be able to take a few pictures of an example for you...........


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## ChrisDIY

Looks AWESOME!

I rented a brick saw, made installing caps a breeze, short of the weight. The brick saw was a wet saw so no mess/dust.

I pretty much did mine by myself. Waiting on soil to fill and gutter repair. I have another entire side to do in next 18 months...:whistling2:

Once the second side is done will complete paver walkway to walkout door.


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## teamcampreder

Sorry for the delay guys. Had some family issues come up and I haven't been able to get a free minute.

ITS DONE!!!

Couple things before the pictures. Ravenworks: Block splitting is one thing, but to get the caps to go flush around the corner, I would need a smooth cut one way or another. The 7inch saw ended up working out great, it just required two cuts. Considering I spent on it what I would have spent renting a gas 14 inch saw for 1 day, I am very happy with my purchase. I made at least 30 cuts with it, the saw had plenty of power (13 amp skil), and the blade still seems to be in good shape for whatever comes next.

Concretemasonry: I don't understand what tails you are talking about, but if you see an example of a tail in any of my pics, please point it out.

Jomama: I argued with my wife on this one for a whole week, she thought that it would look better with a smooth cap end, where I really liked the split end. Ultimately I put my foot down as she has done about 1% of the work on the project and told her if she doesn't like it then build her own wall (this rarely works folks lol). She agreed after it was all said and done that the split end looked way better.

Chris: Your wall looks AWESOME. nuff said.

So there is a little surprise in these pictures. One thing I didn't like on the old wall was the fact that somebody could just go walking off the edge or, even worse, a little kid could roll off the edge, right onto the hard driveway. I worked with my block lady at Harkens and found a CST product called "veranda wall" which is basically a two sided versalok looking block that glues together, and is not load bearing. I used this at the very top to kind of frame the main part of my back lawn, and as a little protection from that errant ball/toy/animal/baby that could go careening off the edge. I never bothered bringing it up here because I was having a hard enough time getting all the technical stuff in writing, but I REALLY like how it came out.

Does the wall look perfect? No. I know that you can see a few 1 mm gaps here and there, and that there is a little color variation, but I dont care. the load bearing part has been up for a month and it is still dead level, and I really am happy with the results. Once again, thank you all for being so helpful!!

Here we go!


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## CoconutPete

Looks great!


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## Ravenworks

Looks good,I have no doubt that your wall will last.
Now to get ride of that ugly chunk of concrete at the end of the wall.


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## ChrisDIY

Looks good! I can't wait to finish mine.

Are you planning to backfill to the top?


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## teamcampreder

ChrisDIY said:


> Looks good! I can't wait to finish mine.
> 
> Are you planning to backfill to the top?


Nope, the top two courses are a two sided freestanding wall product called Versalok Veranda Wall.

http://cstpavers.com/retaining-walls/versa-lok-veranda-wall

I am going to be dropping in about 6 inches of topsoil over that dirt to cover the top of the retaining wall, and to grow grass, but the veranda wall will be about a foot over the grass. I am using it to frame my yard a bit. I will get more pics when the grass comes in, you will see my vision.


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## mgp roofing

Looks great! I'm just starting the planning for a wall like this myself, a recent rainstorm finished off the 36 year old crib wall beside my friend's driveway; gotta do something before the rest of it comes down!


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