# Condensation on my ceilings.



## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

I’ve been battling an issue of condensation on my ceilings all forming by the outside facing walls. I went up into the attic to take a look and found that the bathroom vent wasn’t hooked up properly, wrong sized duct and it was way to long. The duct actually had sitting water and mold in it when I removed it. I replaced that with an insulated duct and hooked it up properly with the shortest possible run. The vent is located in my soffit vent overhang, and I am still expirencing this problem although it does seem more isolated now but not much. It’s at the point where it condensates so much it drips and pools up on the floor. I cannot put a finger on what’s going on. I noticed there was no fiberglass plugs installed at the bottoms of the baffle vents in the attic so I am not sure if to much outside air is coming in and meeting warm air and then just making condensation in the ceilings by the outside facing walls. Can anyone help point me in the right direction?


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Here are some photos of what I am experiencing. And keep in mind this is in multiple rooms. Not just the bathroom.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If you'll take some temperature readings in a few areas across the rooms comparing ceiling drywall temperature to dewpoint temperature you may find you have a insulation problem.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

So what do you advise I do? I am sure Ill have to remove the old insulation. I haven’t t seen any mold but the insulation is most definitely discolored.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi Eric and welcome to the forum.
The pictures tell the story, this is in a bathroom with high moisture levels and limited insulation above that outside wall.

Two steps are needed.
1. While maintaining the desired air flow you need the maximun insulation possible above that area.
2. You may want a bigger bath fan but you also need to leave it running for 20 or 30 minutes after the power is turned off and they make switches with delayed off timers specifically for this. If you go for a larger fan some come with that delay capability built in.

Bud


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> Hi Eric and welcome to the forum.
> The pictures tell the story, this is in a bathroom with high moisture levels and limited insulation above that outside wall.
> 
> Two steps are needed.
> ...


Thank you for the welcoming, 
The condensation is in more than one room. Not just in the bathroom. I am planning on replacing the bathroom vent this weekend and I am hoping it helps. I’m assuming it’s still a lack of insulation throughout the house. The insulation in my attic sits just flush with the rafters.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

How is the attic vented?


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Guap0_ said:


> How is the attic vented?


Through a ridge vent and the soffit vents. No gabble or roof vents.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

What kind of insulation, and how thick is the insulation, directly above the area that shows condensation? (a picture may help)


Where are you located?


Are you also finding condensation on the window glass?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

You are correct and the fact that you are seeing condensation elsewhere just confirms the humidity in the house is too high. Look for other sources like dryer not vented to outside, fish tanks, storing firewood inside, wet basement or dirt crawlspace and the list goes on. A good tool to have is a RH meter that monitors both temp and humidity. Those two numbers give you the dew point that SS mentioned and can help to locate the source of moisture.

There are several different ways that your rafters may have been installed, some with more clearance for insulation and some with less. *Here* is a link with some pictures that may help.

Bud


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Do the exterior walls on the gable ends have the same condensation symptoms?


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

SPS-1 said:


> What kind of insulation, and how thick is the insulation, directly above the area that shows condensation? (a picture may help)
> 
> 
> Where are you located?
> ...


It is fiberglass insulation with a thin layer of blown in insulation. Sits flush with the rafters. I live in eastern Connecticut. And yes I am getting condensation on the window glass. I’ll work on getting a picture.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> You are correct and the fact that you are seeing condensation elsewhere just confirms the humidity in the house is too high. Look for other sources like dryer not vented to outside, fish tanks, storing firewood inside, wet basement or dirt crawlspace and the list goes on. A good tool to have is a RH meter that monitors both temp and humidity. Those two numbers give you the dew point that SS mentioned and can help to locate the source of moisture.
> 
> There are several different ways that your rafters may have been installed, some with more clearance for insulation and some with less. *Here* is a link with some pictures that may help.
> 
> Bud


Thanks for the helpful information bud, I’ll look into getting the RH meter. I’ll kee you informed on what I find.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

EricPender94 said:


> SPS-1 said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of insulation, and how thick is the insulation, directly above the area that shows condensation? (a picture may help)
> ...


Another thing I noticed is that the blown insulation on top of the fiberglass insulation doesn’t seem to be evenly distributed across the attic.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

If you add a nearby big city to your profile it will show up with each post and helps as in this reply. It doesn't sound like you have nearly enough insulation up there since even the middle regions suggest r-38. But if in a colder area r-50 may be needed. Add to that the limited space above the top plate for insulation and ventilation and obviously build Add some caulking to seal them in place and you'll have a big improvement.

Builders of the past were not concerned about issues like this.

From the link with the pictures I posted you will see some rigid insulation being used. Rigid has 2 benefits, higher r-value per inch and air can't flow through it.

The positive side to this is it can also reduce your yearly heating abd cooling costs.

Bud


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I tend to agree with Bud in post #10 that the humidity in your house is exceptionally high and you need to find out why. You need to buy a hygrometer to observe actual humidity. I noticed that in my place, indoor humidity does peak around October, reaching 65% to maybe 70%. But being only October, no condensation on windows unless we get one of those nights that outdoor temp goes below freezing. But your condensation is pretty extreme --- could be something venting moist air into your home.


Not sure I agree that attic insulation is root problem. Possibly those are 2x8 joists and you only have about R24 in the attic. You are losing a fair amount of heat in the winter but hard to explain that picture. Possibly no insulation in walls, which causes more heat to escape, but that condensation is pretty extreme. 


What year was your house built? How long have you lived there? What temp do you keep the house at? Have you noticed anything like this before?


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> If you add a nearby big city to your profile it will show up with each post and helps as in this reply. It doesn't sound like you have nearly enough insulation up there since even the middle regions suggest r-38. But if in a colder area r-50 may be needed. Add to that the limited space above the top plate for insulation and ventilation and obviously build Add some caulking to seal them in place and you'll have a big improvement.
> 
> Builders of the past were not concerned about issues like this.
> 
> ...





SPS-1 said:


> I tend to agree with Bud in post #10 that the humidity in your house is exceptionally high and you need to find out why. You need to buy a hygrometer to observe actual humidity. I noticed that in my place, indoor humidity does peak around October, reaching 65% to maybe 70%. But being only October, no condensation on windows unless we get one of those nights that outdoor temp goes below freezing. But your condensation is pretty extreme --- could be something venting moist air into your home.
> 
> 
> Not sure I agree that attic insulation is root problem. Possibly those are 2x8 joists and you only have about R24 in the attic. You are losing a fair amount of heat in the winter but hard to explain that picture. Possibly no insulation in walls, which causes more heat to escape, but that condensation is pretty extreme.
> ...


I will be purchasing the meter, we have had multiple nights drop below freezing recently here in CT. The duct to the bathroom fan was not hooked up to anything just sitting next to the vent, but I have replaced it with an insulated duct and I am still experiencing this issue. We don’t have any washers or dryers in the house yet. purchased my home about a month ago from contractors, who owned it from April till the end of September and they say they never saw this issue in this home while they owned it. The house was built in 1989. And I first noticed this two weeks ago and have been trying to track down what’s causing it since.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> If you add a nearby big city to your profile it will show up with each post and helps as in this reply. It doesn't sound like you have nearly enough insulation up there since even the middle regions suggest r-38. But if in a colder area r-50 may be needed. Add to that the limited space above the top plate for insulation and ventilation and obviously build Add some caulking to seal them in place and you'll have a big improvement.
> 
> Builders of the past were not concerned about issues like this.
> 
> ...


I live in Connecticut, I see the what you are talking about. Instead of caulking would you advise I use spray foam to hold it in place? I am definitely adding more insulation as well as the rigid board.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Do the exterior walls on the gable ends have the same condensation symptoms?


No they don’t not. At the most, the corner of one room on the gable expirences some condensation but I figured I was kind of “bleeding” in a little farther then the rest of the areas.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

EricPender94 said:


> No they don’t not. At the most, the corner of one room on the gable expirences some condensation but I figured I was kind of “bleeding” in a little farther then the rest of the areas.


 This tells us there is cold air leaking into the ventilated eaves area where it shouldn't be. That's where the correction needs to take place. What exactly is wrong there, we have no way of knowing at the present time.



The contractors are so smart to say there wasn't a problem during warm weather from April - September or possibly they were never in the house during that time frame. Well woopiee, we can see they don't have a clue.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

SeniorSitizen said:


> EricPender94 said:
> 
> 
> > No they don’t not. At the most, the corner of one room on the gable expirences some condensation but I figured I was kind of “bleeding” in a little farther then the rest of the areas.
> ...


So would you agree that installing rigid board, sealed in with caulk/spray foam would prevent that from happening?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

EricPender94 said:


> So would you agree that installing rigid board, sealed in with caulk/spray foam would prevent that from happening?


Not at the moment without investigation of where and how the screw up was accomplished that differs from the norm.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

SeniorSitizen said:


> EricPender94 said:
> 
> 
> > So would you agree that installing rigid board, sealed in with caulk/spray foam would prevent that from happening?
> ...


What exactly should I be looking for?


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

That's a lot of condensation. Like _really_ a lot. I'd look to see if it's just condensation forming on your ceiling or if it's a combination of that and other moisture dripping down. 
It's possible that the roof isn't venting at the ridge which could cause condensation to form on the underside of the roof sheathing which would run down to the eaves where it's dripping in at the ceiling to wall joint. Check that you have some kind of vent in place and functioning. Either a ridge vent, gable vent, or those turtle looking thingies (technical term!).
I'd also poke my head up into the attic and see if it's generally damp feeling or shows signs of moisture accumulation. 
Now, under normal circumstances the wall to roof junction is a weak spot in the thermal envelope. Look at a triangle and see how little space there is at the corner? That's your roof-wall intersection. Now, if you had a lazy insulator who didn't want to crawl into that narrow corner you might not have much insulation and what's there could have big gaps that are letting warm air up from downstairs mix with the cold air coming in the soffit vent creating condensation. Tighten up that intersection so the incoming cold air from the soffit vent is just hitting the underside of the roof sheathing and the insulation is keeping your ceiling warm so it's not a condensing surface. Fill any air leaks from the living space to the attic. It can be a tricky detail and a lot of builders didn't really pay much attention to it back in the day.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I haven't read all the info here but you should have an air chute against the roof sheeting to allow air from the soffit into the attic and some bat material to block the rest of the hole so loose insulation does not fall into the soffit or gets wind blown away from the outside wall.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

EricPender94 said:


> What exactly should I be looking for?


A good place to start would be to look where insulation should be but was omitted. There are on-line resources that will provide information where it should be.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> I haven't read all the info here but you should have an air chute against the roof sheeting to allow air from the soffit into the attic and some bat material to block the rest of the hole so loose insulation does not fall into the soffit or gets wind blown away from the outside wall.


Yeah I’m going to install rigid foam board instead of using fiberglass insulation as a plug underneath the baffle vents. Fiberglass plugs (from what Ive read) don’t seem to stop air from passing through.


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## EricPender94 (Nov 1, 2018)

NotYerUncleBob2 said:


> That's a lot of condensation. Like _really_ a lot. I'd look to see if it's just condensation forming on your ceiling or if it's a combination of that and other moisture dripping down.
> It's possible that the roof isn't venting at the ridge which could cause condensation to form on the underside of the roof sheathing which would run down to the eaves where it's dripping in at the ceiling to wall joint. Check that you have some kind of vent in place and functioning. Either a ridge vent, gable vent, or those turtle looking thingies (technical term!).
> I'd also poke my head up into the attic and see if it's generally damp feeling or shows signs of moisture accumulation.
> Now, under normal circumstances the wall to roof junction is a weak spot in the thermal envelope. Look at a triangle and see how little space there is at the corner? That's your roof-wall intersection. Now, if you had a lazy insulator who didn't want to crawl into that narrow corner you might not have much insulation and what's there could have big gaps that are letting warm air up from downstairs mix with the cold air coming in the soffit vent creating condensation. Tighten up that intersection so the incoming cold air from the soffit vent is just hitting the underside of the roof sheathing and the insulation is keeping your ceiling warm so it's not a condensing surface. Fill any air leaks from the living space to the attic. It can be a tricky detail and a lot of builders didn't really pay much attention to it back in the day.


Thanks for the tip! I’ll look into the ridge vent a little more. Should I be seeing some light coming through? Because i don’t see any.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

EricPender94 said:


> Yeah I’m going to install rigid foam board instead of using fiberglass insulation as a plug underneath the baffle vents. Fiberglass plugs (from what Ive read) don’t seem to stop air from passing through.


 bats are the standard here for the last 30 years but what ever works.
Air takes the easy route and that is what the chute is for.


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## jamesdink (Oct 11, 2016)

ok, everyone has told you about the insulation, I am going to ask you one thing, and your going have to take a piece of your wall out. your have to check if the home is sealed from the outside. for that you have to go inside. That's what a contractor would first check. there is something every home must have and that is a moisture seal.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

jamesdink said:


> ok, everyone has told you about the insulation, I am going to ask you one thing, and your going have to take a piece of your wall out. your have to check if the home is sealed from the outside. for that you have to go inside. That's what a contractor would first check. there is something every home must have and that is a moisture seal.


Hi James, we don't want to say moisture seal, as in a plastic vapor barrier as all homes need to be able to dry in at least one direction. The op is in a cold climate so if a vapor barrier were to be installed it would be between the drywall and the framing. But the latest thinking is only extreme climates need anything beyond the interior paint. At most a vapor retarder. Air sealing is the new "must" to control the movement of moisture.

Feel free to clarify if I misread.

Bud


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