# Trane XE60 will not ignite



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

red to white should open gas valve.. since its standing pilot ...appy ....24 volts directly to gas valve ..see if it open...if it does check 24 volt circuit ..safeties and high limit... if you have 24 volts at gas valve and it don't open ...Iwould say you have bad gas valve


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

Thank you for replying so quick. How would I apply 24 volts directly to it? It is a White Rodgers 36c53 Type 237.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

You should be getting a consistent 24vac at the gas valve, +/- a bit.

If there's gas at the valve, it's getting power, is set to the on position (not pilot only), you have a bad valve.

At the valve check the connections carefully.

You can also pull the 24v connections off the valve and check the solenoid coil's resistance.

Please do note that standing pilot furnaces date back before 1992, so it's old, not very efficient, and the heat exchanger may be cracked by now. Get it checked. 

There are some standing pilot furnaces that are potentially so well built, they could last forever. They used to use real steal. Others, perhaps most produced after 1980 potentially crack after only 12-20 years thanks to cost cutting measures. 

The stuff today? Probably lucky to not have major failures in the warranty period.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Fire Marshal said:


> Thank you for replying so quick. How would I apply 24 volts directly to it? It is a White Rodgers 36c53 Type 237.


 I use jumper wires from transformer directly to gas valve..remove wires off gas valve 1 st...then apply 24 volts..


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

I have 4 wires on my gas valve. Two on the top by the pilot button and two on the side that are just below the thermocouple. If the solenoid is a black plastic piece where two wires connect, then my resistance is OL. I still have 20 Volts at the furnace with red and white, but everything else seems OK except for the gas valve voltage. It is all over the place as far as the readings go. Since the pilot light flame stays lit, (and it has for over a week), would that prove there is gas at the valve?


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

The wires leading to the thermocouple in that case don't go to the main valve solenoid.

The other wires, in series with the limit switch power the main valve, and you need to check the resistance there.

Anything related to the valve, you should probably call a pro for.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks again for answering. The red wires lead to the fan limit switch. The white and blue wires should be power. What should the resistance be at the solenoid? I get OL when I check it.

Also, I do want to at least check to see if the valve opens. What 24 volt wire would go to which connection on the gas valve? I am clear about the 24 volt side of the transformer, but want to make sure I put the right spade on the right connection on the valve. So which color goes where?


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

white and blue...disconnect...apply 24volt + to blue terminal and common to white terminal from transformer...if valve is good it should open if pilot is lit is should fire...


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

*Sorry for Bailing*

I apologize for not getting back. One of those bad family emergencies. I did not get to follow your advice regarding testing the gas valve. If you have time to help, I greatly appreciate it, but if not I understand.
I got home and turned the unit on and the furnace fired for about 30 seconds, then when out. The pilot light has and is burning straight and blue.

1. I have a transformer that has black and white 120v and it comes through the transformer to red and blue wire. Am I to take red as positive and blue as common to test the gas valve? 

2. What should be the resistance at the gas valve where the power comes in?

3. When connecting the red and white wire at the thermostat, nothing happens. Red and Green activate the blower. Same as testing the red and white wires at the furnace. There is no voltage at the furnace for red and white together. For Red and Yellow, Red and Green, I get 24 volts. Should there be 24 volts between red and white all the time? I greatly appreciate your time.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Post a pic of it from further back so I can see the burners etc and also where the thermostat wires attach.

If it has a terminal board at the furnace label and remove the wires and then jumper across R and W and see if it runs steady. If it does then your thermostat is faulty.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

I have connected red and white at the tstat and at the terminal board at the furnace. I do not get anything. When I connect red and green, the blower kicks on.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

*Trane XE60*

Thanks for responding. At the terminal board, (or at the tstat), I get nothing when I jump the red and white. I do when I jump red and green.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

You should have a steady 24 volts AC across the 2 white wires at the top of the gas valve when R and W are jumpered. If your meter is going crazy try another meter. Don't want to condemn parts because of some old cheap wonky meter. HDepot has a good Klein one for under $75. If you get 24 volts try tap the gas valve lightly with a crescent wrench. If it opens then it is faulty and MUST be replaced as it could stick open and start a fire.

R to G turns on the fan relay for AC.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

I have a steady 24 Volts at the gas valve without the red and white jumped. I did go and get another meter. So if I have 24 volts at the gas meter, my pilot light is burning steady, doesn't that mean I have gas at the meter as well as power?

Going to go tap.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

Tapping did not work but it did tic off my wife. So I tapped awhile longer. I connected the white and red and tried. Then put the red and white back to their respective places on the terminal board and tried again. There is no voltage between white and red. I still get 24 volts between Red and Green. Still have 24 volts to the gas valve. I am using a Innova digital meter.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If you have 24 volts across the 2 wires at the gas VALVE it is stuck closed and needs to be replaced. Those 2 red wires at the side of the valve are a fail safe high temp emergency cut off and will shut off the pilot light if the furnace gets too hot. They don't use that feature often or anymore. That furnace may be 25-30 yrs old and probably the heat exchanger may be cracked or will crack soon. May want to get a new one rather than replace the valve. Do you have other gas appliances like a water heater that work properly? If not call the gas company and get them to check their meter and regulator as they fail occasionally. They may tell you to call a Pro to check the pressure to the valve etc first.

Google: cracked heat exchanger and go to Images to see what can happen.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

The pilot light never goes out. It has been burning steady through all of this. Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate your help.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If you are using Propane then get the pressure checked to the valve as tank regulators can fail. Mave have enough for the pilot though.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks. I am on natural gas. Gas water heater is running fine. I went down and shut the pilot down and gave it a few minutes, then turned the gas back on. When I depress the gas valve to light the pilot, I get what sounds like a steady stream of gas and it lights right up and stays lit.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

> Those 2 red wires at the side of the valve are a fail safe high temp emergency cut off and will shut off the pilot light if the furnace gets too hot. They don't use that feature often or anymore


Man, that's archaic - what is it connected to, the limit? I was wondering why there were four wires connected to the valve like that.

I've only seen the thermocouples that appear to screw into the valve.

This thing should be scrapped unless the money just isn't there.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Fusible link.

They use them in large Commercial hot water heaters. 80 gallon and up. Lennox had a G12 US model we rarely saw in Canada that had it also.

You ain't been aroung long enough young Luke to have seen half of what Been~ and myself have seen. There was a W/R mercury filled pilot sensor/flame proving device on a valve that looked like that also. ICG and Weil McLain used them. Those were finicky and tricky to keep running and diagnose.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Fusible link i know of, but shutting the pilot as a safety is just plain weird. Guess they were afraid of having the main valve stick open in the event of a blower motor failure at the same time.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If the valve sticks open even with the blower running it can severely overheat if the AC coil is plugged etc. I have seen limit controls that were not wired in properly and the furnace melted the AC pan. It is a deluxe expensive option as Trane is a expensive furnace. It does not seem to be a UL or CGA requirement as only a very few had it.

With a water heater it is more dangerous as it is a mechanical gas valve and there is a LOT more stored NRG in a 80 gallon or larger tank. They also have a high energy cutoff built into the temp sensor/actuator of your basic water heater. Google: energy cutoff or high energy cutoff and you may find a description as I did.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

yah, water heaters can turn into bombs if the pressure relief valve fails to open.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

We still use that valve (36 CO3 258) here in lotusland where the furnaces last twice as long as your average gas valve. That eco on the side of the valve will allow you to get an immediate closed DCMV reading on the thermocouple without an adapter and a DCMV drop out on the electromagnet in the gas valve. The valve does lack the redundancy of more modern valves but are grandfathered in with our older furnaces.

When that eco circuit is broken for any reason, both the pilot and the main gas valve are disabled. 
While leaving the eco connections in place,
attach one of your meter leads to the upper eco lead and the other to the copper covering of the thermocouple line to read the DCMV thermocouple output. Blow out the pilot and time how many seconds it takes for the gas valve to drop out (you'll can hear it click off) and record what the DCMV output is when it does.
Tell us what those measurements are and we can tell you a lot about how the gas valve and thermocouple circuit is doing.
Anyway...
with a *steady* 24 volts applied to the valve, the pilot lit & holding and the correct gas pressure...either something on the eco circuit is causing a fault (fault in the wiring, connections, any safety sw in series with it or one of the connections to the eco grounding against the thermocouple.) .....or the gas valve is faulty.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

*Thank You*

I just wanted to thank you all for your help. It was indeed the gas valve. It fired right up after I replaced it. Would anyone by chance know how to get the original parts list for this model? I know that Trane keeps their information close to their vest, but I would appreciate it if anyone could help me find a link. Thanks again.
Trane XE 60 
Model #TUP080B936A0 
Serial # E01653165


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

If you changed the valve yourself, did you check the gas pressure and monoxide in exhaust? think you're supposed to.

Time for a new more efficient furnace, not a parts list.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

All checked. I do not have as much money as you do. So my definition of efficient is keeping my family warm. Your opinion and disdain have been noted.

Merry Christmas.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

^Not meaning to criticize and don't assume anything about me. Just saying that forced air furnaces have a useful life just like cars and computers. They can also fail catastrophically (the heat exchanger could crack any time) requiring unplanned replacement, where you have to make a snap decision without doing the research. In fact after a certain point it's more economical to change out an inefficient unit (even if it as to be financed) which is breaking down and wasting gas than try to keep it going. *A question of life-cycle costing - keeping that old thing running over 5-10 years between burning 30%+ more gas and parts could likely be as much as a basic condensing furnace which has a 20 year lifespan and full 10 year parts and labour warranty. 
*


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Fire Marshal said:


> All checked. I do not have as much money as you do. So my definition of efficient is keeping my family warm. Your opinion and disdain have been noted.
> 
> Merry Christmas.



Ya got one of the old tanks. Takes a lot to kill them. They were built to be pretty reliable.


While its AFUE is low. It could take a lot of years for a 95% AFUE to break even. So as long as the heat exchanger is in good shape. Keep using it.


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## Fire Marshal (Oct 24, 2015)

Hey beenthere, 
Heat exchanger is good. Thanks to user yuri and $200, the furnace is is back in business. Thank you for this site. It has helped more than you can know.


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