# Flooded basement and Mold Remediation?



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Lightyear said:


> Hello,
> 
> We are flooded in my furnished basement. We have furniture and carpet. The water is still coming in after 5 days.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Because of the location of your damage (Basement) and the cause (flooding) - the chances of mold growth are extremely high. 
To answer your question: Yes, you should consider a company that does both removal, cleanup and mold/moisture remediation. No, getting the water out right away will not protect you against mold. 

Now the Problem: These companies are straight out handling the same problems with other homes right now.

Here is a link with further information:

http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldresources.html

Good Luck.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Generally speaking, you have about 24-48 hours to get rid of the water before mold starts to grow. Because of the weather though (not summer yet), I think you should be okay if you a) stop the water from coming in, b) get rid of all that stuff (furniture, carpet, etc.) as soon as possible, and most importantly c) dry out your basement. The steps that are being taken by your specialist are correct.

You do *NOT* need a mold remediation specialist until it is determined that you in fact DO HAVE MOLD. After the cleanup, I would hire an environmental consultant to do a mold inspection and air sample. His analysis will determine the extent of mold in your basement, and whether it's necessary to bring someone in.

I would not bring in a mold remediation company until you get that independant analysis from the consultant. That keeps parties separate and eliminates a "doom and gloom" scenario where they could use scare tactics to pad their profits.

The steps that your specialist is doing right now is pretty much equivalent to what a mold remediation company would do, but they will take it a few steps further. That includes:

* immediately sealing off the basement to prevent any possible mold to go upstairs. This includes HVAC returns in the basement.
* bagging all your basement belongings.
* removing all the wet drywall and insulation.
* sanding down any mold on wood surfaces.
* cleaning out your HVAC air ducts.
* installing fans to create a zero pressure atmosphere (draw a vaccuum) to pull all air outside while bombing the basement with a chemical that kills mold.
* spraying all suspect areas with the same chemical (this chemical supposedly becomes inert after 1 hour).

What is your water situation and why is water still coming in? Focus should be on fixing the water intrusion issue first while removing stuff that's lost. Have those heavy duty dehumidifiers running non stop and have fans on to circulate the air. Don't rely on your HVAC system to do any of this.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Link:

http://www.epa.gov/mold/table1.html


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

handy man88 said:


> Generally speaking, you have about 24-48 hours to get rid of the water before mold starts to grow. Because of the weather though (not summer yet), I think you should be okay if you a) stop the water from coming in, b) get rid of all that stuff (furniture, carpet, etc.) as soon as possible, and most importantly c) dry out your basement. The steps that are being taken by your specialist are correct.
> 
> You do *NOT* need a mold remediation specialist until it is determined that you in fact DO HAVE MOLD. After the cleanup, I would hire an environmental consultant to do a mold inspection and air sample. His analysis will determine the extent of mold in your basement, and whether it's necessary to bring someone in.
> 
> ...


Please realize that the poster has had water in their basement for over *5 days*....as of their post. 
It could still be in there a while....before it is all removed. 

Chances of mold are *EXTREMELY HIGH*.
(refer to EPA link above)

Precaution dictates Mold remediation/*mold PREVENTION* procedures prior to any repair or restoration work and walls are enclosed. Whether they choose to use two different companies for clean up and testing and remediation is up to them....But really, under the circumstances, the chance for future mold growth is probable.....

Additionally, 'if' the damage is covered by their Home Owners insurance - there may also be 'requirements' and 'stipulations' for the coverage to be paid (we have seen this) ....


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

It depends on how they want to approach it. They can call their insurer and get them to pay, but risk having their premiums go up. Then, their house could be blacklisted and be hard to sell down the line. That's a call to be made by the home owner.

That issue aside, they need 1) stop the water intrusion issue, and 2) hire an environmental consultant to assess the extent of the problem. That's always the best way, to get an independent expert who has no vested interest in the job to be performed.

A mold remediation company is generally a cleanup crew. An environmental consultant is a trained and licensed individual who can perform experiments and draw on his expertise to gauge the situation. Based on his analysis, he can provide the mold remediation outfit with suggestions on what needs to be done.

The final thing is that the enviromental consultant will come back after the cleanup to do a follwoup analysis. This will determine if the mold cleaning outfit has done their job properly or whether more work is needed.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

What type of wall system do you have? Is it standard 2x4 and drywall construction?
When I bought my house, there was clearly a mold & mildew problem in the basement. I threw the entire finished basement in the dumpster, problem solved. Although, maybe not to the extent of un-finishing the entire basement, isn't that essentially what mold remediation specialists do?


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

The truth is, to answer the OP's Q accurately, you really won't know until it's cleaned up

5 days of water is a long time, the chances are high there's mold
But I've seen basements with water in them for a lot longer then that that didn't develop mold problems

Should you hire someone who does both?
Not necessarily
Will getting the water out in time "protect" you from mold
Not necessarily

There's just no cut and dry answers

To answer CC's Q, Mold Remediation may include ditching even the studs, but often isn't necessary
Often it does include removing drywall, there's not much you can do to salvage that if it gets soaked enough


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback.

My wife wants to save some of the basement items. Can we save them if we clean them up? Or are they forever ruined?
I have some computer equipment I want to keep as well as books and such. 

Thanks.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Yes, everything can be saved if you clean it properly. Bleach and water is generally the best.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

FWIW - Bleach and water does work to clean off mold and fungus stains.

However, to actually kill fungus, you need a Fungicide. 
(When we are called in for moisture damage repairs we always use an actual 'fungicide')

Here is an excerpt from 'Moldbuster', a member on this forum regarding this:

_Bleach (sodium hypochlorite) does NOT kill mold on a porous surface. That is basic chemistry. There are numerous independent scientific studies that show this to be the case including one from the Oregon Dept of Wood Science. If it did, it would be registered as a fungicide with the EPA and you will not find an EPA reg number. If bleach/X-14 really did kill mold, trust me, the chemical companies would be shouting this off the rooftops. Read the label and the advertisement. X-14 says it removes mildew STAINS for two weeks...that is right in their advertisement on their website (quote..."With new X-14, simply spray problem mildew and watch those mildew stains quickly disappear and stay away for up to 2 weeks!"). Look at the literature...nowhere does it say it permanently kills mold or mildew...only that it removes the stains (meaning it wipes off the surface flora). If you do this, you are taking a chance every time and setting yourself up for a lawsuit. I come in and do treatments all the time for guys who did exactly this (sprayed it down with X-14 or Bleach then painted over it...particularly in apartments. Good fungicides are not only not inexpensive, they are less obnoxious so why not use them? Just from that alone...you should be using a fungicide._

His statements are true. If you do further research...it's dead on.

Link to this particular discussion about the point:

_http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=5931_


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks again for all of your helpful replies. I really appreciate all the time you are taking to help me.
The water is still coming in. But it should stop soon. I hear the days will start to get warm and sunny tomorrow.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Lightyear, are you in Southern NH, by chance?


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

Lightyear said:


> My wife wants to save some of the basement items. Can we save them if we clean them up? Or are they forever ruined?


Again, unfortunately I have to say that will depend
Some may be saved, some may be ruined

Please also keep in mind moldbuster is an internet salesman of products for mold problems, and that should be taken into consideration when reviewing any advice from that member


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

slickshift said:


> Please also keep in mind moldbuster is an internet salesman of products for mold problems, and that should be taken into consideration when reviewing any advice from that member


Thanks Slick,

I realize that. That's why i did my own research about all of it.

We service about one dozen luxury apartment complexes with a total of 300+ units each. That service also includes regular calls for water damage due to roof leaks, water heater leaks, plumbing leaks (this year alone, we have had to do gut and re-do about 30 units). Because we sometimes have to do our own moisture testing and other checks, I wanted to make sure that we were following all proper procedures (including the times that we work along with certified mold remediation companies).
That is why I did my own research about the bleach and water concept. I also did my research on the so called - sold off the shelf - 'mold sprays'.
Regarding the common mold sprays that are sold everywhere, I found, true to fact, when you turn the labels over and read the fine print, they do say that they *do not* work on pourous surfaces. 
They also state that they get rid of stains, BUT, do not state anywhere that they actually 'kill' mold or mold spores. 

For years, I was under the assumption that bleach and water and these sprays work. The fact of the matter is that you do need a Fungucide to KILL mold and mold spores.
Thus, we always use an actual 'fungicide'. 

(When I can find the time, I definetely plan on getting the schooling required for actual 'Mold Certification')


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

Clutchcargo said:


> Lightyear, are you in Southern NH, by chance?


Clutccargo I live in Northern NJ.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Lightyear said:


> Clutccargo I live in Northern NJ.


Unfortunately, if your governor wasn't too busy getting into car accidents, he might have had time to declare a state of emergency after last week's storm and you may have qualified for state benefits to help with your flooding issue.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Thanks Slick,
> 
> I realize that. That's why i did my own research about all of it.
> 
> ...


I recommended a bleach and mold solution to get ride of mold on surfaces. If you note my earlier posts, I said that mold remediation companies usually use a chemical to bomb the basement. This chemical usually becomes inert after about 1 hour. This chemical is indeed the fungicide. Only by bombing the room can you kill mold spores that are still in the air. That is why it is important to have an enviromental consults perform an air sample. This air sample will also determine the types of mold spores in that space. Only a certain type of mold has been linked to cause lung ailments, and is considered deadly.


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

handy man88 said:


> Only by bombing the room can you kill mold spores that are still in the air.


Actually, technically, there is a UV/Fan Air Exchanger that works rather well also
But the point is a big important one, there is mold (spores) in the air


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

slickshift said:


> Actually, technically, there is a UV/Fan Air Exchanger that works rather well also
> But the point is a big important one, there is mold (spores) in the air


Yes, and if you have a large basement, circulation can be an issue. Right now, they even sell UV light filters for your HVAC system to kill mold spores. It's installed in your return, but a key is getting proper circulation. 

When you bomb a room with the fungicide, you're more likely to get into all the areas that have dead air because you are actively targeting them. When I had a mold problem, the environmental consultant advised against opening up basement windows/doors for a long period, especially if live in a wooded area, to keep the humidity low (~40%), to get rid of organic material as much as possible (ie. cardboard boxes), and keep good air circulation.


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

*Mole on toys and books?*

What should I use to get rid of any fungal mole spores on toys or books that were in the flood? Is there any type of spray?

Thanks


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Lightyear said:


> What should I use to get rid of any fungal mole spores on toys or books that were in the flood? Is there any type of spray?
> 
> Thanks


Fungucidal spray or a concentrate that you mix into the spray form.
HD carries only one product in their cleaning dept. that is an actual fungucide. Read the labels carefully. You could also try a Janatorial cleaning supply store, or do a web search...


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Lightyear said:


> What should I use to get rid of any fungal mole spores on toys or books that were in the flood? Is there any type of spray?
> 
> Thanks




Pretty much cleaning on a surface like a book or toy can be done with bleach and water. Fungicide used by the mold cleaning companies are generally not available for consumer purchase. Problem with spraying bleach/water combo into the air is that it's harsh, and spraying on a surface is that it can, if overly concentrated with bleach, damage or alter the object. Therefore, dilute well (10:1 ratio).


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

*How about electrical devices?*

Thanks. 

How about electrical devices, such as small refrigerators or small air conditioners? Are they salvageable or should they be thrown out after being partially submerged in flood water?

Thanks


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Lightyear said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How about electrical devices, such as small refrigerators or small air conditioners? Are they salvageable or should they be thrown out after being partially submerged in flood water?
> 
> Thanks


I'm not an appliance specialist. I would suggest that you post this particular question in the Appliance forum...


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Lightyear said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How about electrical devices, such as small refrigerators or small air conditioners? Are they salvageable or should they be thrown out after being partially submerged in flood water?
> 
> Thanks


If you are able to clean it out thoroughly, then it's probably usable if it still works. Check for corrosion or rust and clean it off. It'll be easier for your fridge rather than your AC unit. In your AC unit, it's going to be tough to see and clean everything, and the device is such that it could put out mold spores into the air if you don't clean it thoroughly but use it anyway. Mold itself has no odor, but the musky smell that you may notice is from wet wood.


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

*Getting Smell out with Coal?*

Is it true if I place coal and baking soda will help reduce the smell from the flood if I place it at each corner of the room? Someone told me to do this.
Thanks again.


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## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

Charcoal (as opposed to coal) and baking soda can help reduce odors on a small scale

Removing the source is key
Then things like that can help


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Make sure you turn on a lot of fans. I actually bought a barrel fan to really get the air circulating. I only use it once in awhile.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10034631&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001624&Mo=17&No=2&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=4261&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=89*107*4261*

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11034329&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001624&Mo=17&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=4261&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=89*107*4261*


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

*Fans and Dehumidifiers*



handy man88 said:


> Make sure you turn on a lot of fans. I actually bought a barrel fan to really get the air circulating. I only use it once in awhile.
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10034631&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001624&Mo=17&No=2&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=4261&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=89*107*4261*
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11034329&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001624&Mo=17&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=4261&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=89*107*4261*



thanks. I was going to ask what size fans and dehumidifiers I should purchase. Do they have any places I can rent them from?
We still have not dried up the place because a little water is still coming in.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Yes, there are places where you can rent contractor sized dehumidifers and fans. They're as big as a washing machine. Mold remediation companies use these. I wouldn't consider buying anything that big. You can easily go to home depot and buy the fans I listed above, and home owner sized dehumidifiers (for the long run). 

The industrial sized fans usually have a duct attached to them that allows extension through a basement window to outside. This allows the fan to pull air and draw it outside.  It's important to keep the humidity level in your basement below 45%.

Pros use this:

http://www.amgair.com/products_ebacbd150.html

with pump:

http://www.bestvacuum.com/ebac-triton.html?s=szilla

Here's a rental place with a location near you:

http://www.onsite-energy.com/rentals/DH.html


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks.
So those retail fans and dehumidifers would do the trick?


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Retail barrel fan will do the trick. Circulation of air is important. I don't know how large your basement is, but I would both rent a contractor sized dehumidifer for maybe 2 days and get the humidity way down, and in the meantime, run out and buy a homeowner sized dehumdifier. Maybe buy two. 

The homeowner sized ones usually are sold out late spring, and are generally more expensive at home depot or lowe's. You can get an identical one from Walmart, but it'll just have a different brand name.

I have this one, along with a whirlpool in my basement.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5079279

If money is "no object," consider this slightly heavier duty model:

http://www.amgair.com/products_ebaccd35.html


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## Lightyear (Apr 19, 2007)

*What about under the washer and dryer?*

I have not had a chance to move the washer and dryer. And I have not dried it under there. If I spray bleach under there after I dry it will that eliminate any chance of mold?

Thanks again.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

You probably have mold under there already. I would definitely dehumidify and dry things out. The way mold remediation companies would tackle it is they would probably use a HEPA vac to vac up that area, then they would sand, and then HEPA vac again.

If I were you, I'd dry it out, spray bleach/water combo, and after it's all dead, try to sweep or brush it up.

It would be interesting if you could take a picture of the areas where water is coming in. You've written a lot asking how to address potential mold issues, but little about how the water is coming in and how to address it.


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