# repairing rotten trim and plywood above garage



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Hard to tell just how bad it really is from those pictures.
From what I can see they installed the trim wrong above brick molding.
There should have been Z molding above and below it to deflect the water away from the wall.
Looks like there's no house wrap, which was a huge mistake.
The trim also did not stick out far enough so the brick molding was sticking out to far and water was just getting in behind it.
If it was mine I would just replace all the exposed wood and replace it all with vinyl lumber and trim and add the proper flashing this time.
A router would never be the proper tool for this job.
Depending on just how bad the OSB is your going to have to remove the trim and the siding to see just how far it's rotted
You never want to use a narrow strip to do the repair, to narrow and it's near impossible to drive a nail in it to install the siding and trim unless you can hit a stud


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Merged threads/post.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Seeing no house wrap on what you did expose is very concerning. Your next step should be to unzip a panel above the trim to see what what things look like. If there's no housewrap behind the siding then you have bigger issues.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No Z molding, trim board not setting out far enough so the brick molding was sticking out to far and water was getting in behind it, wood brick molding instead of vinyl.
And no a router is not the right tools for this. Going to have to remove that trim and some siding to check how bad it is. 
If you do have to cut some of the rot out you want to remove at least a 24" wide piece.
Trying to nail a narrow pieces is a real pain.
I'd at least add house wrap or storm and ice shield to prevent future damage.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

We looked at our home purchase documents and apparently this builder (Midland Homes now Veridian) does wood sheathing and does not wrap the house. DH looked it up and it's not code here. So, that is why there is nothing there. Too bad they screwed up the installation on that trim because now we have a big problem. 

What is OSB?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

It's what you referred to as plywood.
There is no plywood in any of your pictures.
OSB = Oriented strand board
I'm not seeing a big issue looks like a one day job to me.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

We are getting ready to repair this today. DH took off all of the siding. The bottom of the OSB needs to be replaced. It's rotted and crumbling. DH read to cut and replace 24" of the OSB with plywood, not OSB, and to tape the seams with siding tape. Does that sound ok? The OSB is 8 feet tall and we don't need to replace the upper portions as they are fine.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

You don't tape the sheathing seams. OSB vs plywood is a debate all in it's own, I use plywood most of the time.

Now that you have the siding off post another picture standing back so we can see the entire area please.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

abacker said:


> A neighbor said the builder didn't put flashing in this spot so that's why it happened.


And did that neighbor say what it took to repair their problem? 

A router isn't the right tool for cutting off the old damaged portion. Use a circular saw for this. Set the depth to that of the panel you're removing.

Yeah, you don't tape seams. You'd use house wrap, done properly it'd be all the way down from the top.

The bigger question here is how did the water get in there? And what about your new repairs is going to prevent that from happening again?


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

The neighbor's house didn't have the same problem they just knew a little about what caused it. 

PP said no Z molding caused the problem. 

Here is a new picture. DH has started removing rotten piece of OSB with sawz all and a hammer. 

I'm not sure why there is water damage up around the shutters. Did they miss a piece molding/flashing there too?


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

There's water damage up there because the builder missed the whole danged wall! You're at an 'in for a penny, in for a pound' situation.

At this point you might as well remove all that siding and put up some proper wrap and tape around the windows. Otherwise the new sheathing being put up will just fail the same way.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

This builder doesn't wrap houses, just does wood sheathing. So, the whole house isn't wrapped. 

What do you mean the builder missed the whole darn thing? Did you mean the wrap?


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

abacker said:


> This builder doesn't wrap houses, just does wood sheathing. So, the whole house isn't wrapped. What do you mean the builder missed the whole darn thing? Did you mean the wrap?


Yes, the wrap. Around here they require it, partially due to whole developments running into the same sort of problem you have on your house.


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

Makes you wonder whats going on behind the remaining exterior walls of the home. 

Boy that house wrap sure is exspensive:whistling2:


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

The window needs to be properly hooked up. Replace all that osb. Tyvek house wrap.

All= everything from window down. Then two feet from garage up going left. Problem with osb is this. It wicks water.

the window wasn't installed properly. Meaning ice and water for windows.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

The window is false. DH still needs to take it off (need a higher ladder) but it's just decoration.

Thank you for all of the insights. The builder merged with another and now they Tyvek wrap all their houses. Just found that out.

Are we allowed to swear in here?! 

We have a 3.5 year old and I'm 5 months pregnant with no family living near by and even though we have no debt and a fully funded emergency fund, we don't have a sinking fund for home repairs. So, this is just freakin' lovely! 

Thank you again! If we were to hire someone to complete the job, what type of contractor would we look for? Totally clueless on this one.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh I hear how much you'd like to be swearing about it...

One thought might be to play up the sympathy angle with the merged builder. Not to get it done free. But perhaps to get it done at a decent rate. 

But if you're finding one independently I'd start with one that does siding and windows. As they're going to be familiar with the right materials and have the right tools to get it done.

Water damage is never an inexpensive fix, be "glad" you at least caught it at this stage, not mid-winter or after something more serious rotted through. And while it won't seem pleasant, it'd be worthwhile to have a peek into what the rest of the windows have going on. It's vinyl siding, right? That's at least somewhat easy to get a peek behind. Because this might not be the only place in need of serious attention. Best to know that now, before things get even worse.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

I talked to the builder and they won't do anything to fix the issue but gave us the name of two contractors. 

So we contacted one contractor and he said the false window is where the water is coming in and then it flows down the wall and pools at the top of the garage molding and starts to rot. He said he could replace the rotten OSB and put up Tyvek and put the siding back up but we still will have a problem with the water getting in the false window and will have the trim rot at the bottom again. Cost would be $550-$600.

So, he recommended taking out the window and replacing the area above the garage with all new siding. New siding because what's up there is 10 years old and if we mix old and new it will look strange. Even with that the siding above the garage will look brighter and newer than the rest of the house. This is $750-$950. 

I wanted to see if this contractor is correct in that these false windows always cause water damage problems and the best solution is to take it out. We want to avoid future water damage. I don't mind the added cost to fix it for good by taking this false window out but I wanted to see if it's necessary. 

Any ideas or advice? He gave us a quote today and wanted an answer today so he could do the work tomorrow. But, both my husband and I were too busy with our days to even consider the options. Any opinions would be very much appreciated!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

False window? I've done one job where there was a window to nowhere because it was needed to balance the look of the house but it was still a window nonetheless and the installation details were the same.

Any contractor that you talk to that says that they can't make that wall waterproof (false window or not) should immediately be scratched off the list and I certainly wouldn't trust a referral from the company that caused the problem in the first place.

No weather barrier behind the siding (especially vinyl) is unheard of where I come from. I never knew that this was common practice anywhere until I joined this site.

The only help I can give is that you post the “scope of work” proposals of the other contractors you have bid this. It will take very few of their words to know if they have a clue ou not.

I'm sorry you're going through this...This isn't difficult at all...I wish I was there!


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you for your kind words, PP. 

Is it ok if the OSB and plywood get a little wet with rain until we select a contractor? My husband is so stressed out because work is so stressful and then this is hanging over his head. I told him to chill and that I've seen houses being built that are half-wrapped for weeks before the siding is up. Is it ok to wait a bit and select the right person for the job?


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

I forgot to mention that two of the pieces of our siding has cracks in them. There is no water damage behind these pieces. Would it make sense to just replace all of the siding on this wall then since two cracked pieces should get replaced and it's hard to match colors?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

You certainly want to get this taken care of asap. It's not just the OSB getting wet you need to worry about but also the insulation, drywall, etc needs to stay dry. 

I'd look into taking a couple of pieces off a less conspicuous place on the house and use that siding to replace the damaged ones out front then use the new ones to replace the ones you took. 


PP?


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

PP = previous poster. 

I thought I posted this but it doesn't show up. Is this a good article to follow if we DIY?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Sorry, links to other DIY sites are not permitted, I removed the link.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

> PP = previous poster.


 Gotch ya. I thought you were calling me a Party Pooper or something. :laughing: Goggle was even less friendly than that. 



> I thought I posted this but it doesn't show up. Is this a good article to follow if we DIY?


Dang rules anyway.  Here's the picture though. Add flashing tape to the sides and top flanges of the window and you'll be in it. It's what the builder should have done in the first place.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

Ok, so the "false window" is a white frame with two shutters placed in the frame. The shutters have tiny spaces at the corners where water can get in. That is how the water is getting in. That and the shutters were sealed with silicone between the shutters and the frame but over time that wore away.

So, I am kind of in agreement with the contractor that this particular feature needs to go. Unless anyone else has any ideas on how to make shutters within a frame over Tyvek waterproof.

Thank you for all of your advice so far!!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

abacker said:


> So, I am kind of in agreement with the contractor that this particular feature needs to go. Unless anyone else has any ideas on how to make shutters within a frame over Tyvek waterproof.


Shutters go over the siding. 

I'm sorry but this is simply "siding 101". I understand and wouldn't expect you to know this (that's why you're here) but this local contractors response you have posted tells me that he has no clue.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

I think the contractor agrees with you kwikfish. He said that the way this is done (by the builder) is not how it's supposed to be done. 

I just realized I never posted a picture of the "false window" I've been talking about. Again, the builder installed this. It is a white frame with two shutters inside installed directly over OSB. There is no siding underneath that. 

The contractor and I discussed siding the whole wall then putting these two shutters over the top with the frame but it appears it can't be done (hard to explain easier to see with the shutters removed). I noticed how the shutters went over the siding on the other "real" window and that's how my lightbulb went off for this to be a potential solution. But the frame can't go on top of the siding. 

Just wanted to clarify in case a lightbulb goes off for someone else. I'd like to keep this feature on the wall because it's attractive.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Caulk is like anything else, it has to be maintained. It's not just 'apply and forget'. But nor should it be applied in ways that would block water from safely draining. 

It's hard to say without seeing them but it seems like there should be a way to allow whatever water might get in behind them to drain out. A regular window placed in such trim would have some weeper holes along the bottom to redirect water to spill out the front.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

Any ideas on what else we could put in the frame (besides an actual window)? 

The shutters have weepholes but they go in to the back of the shutter not out to the front.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

This is what the house looks like. I feel like if we remove that false window the space above the garage will look unbalanced.


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## jimmyfloyd (Sep 29, 2008)

Would it be possible to remove the shutters/false window and apply 2 layers of Tyvek under it? The first would go all the way to the bottom edge of the garage. The second would go down and overlap a piece of flashing like kwikfishron mentioned yesterday. This assumes that there is just OSB behind the window feature and not a hole for a window. The first layer would protect the siding down to the garage side. The second would cover the water getting passed the shutters and dump it to the outside of the siding as shown. 

I've no experience with this myself, so this is just an observation and suggestion looking at the situation.


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## abacker (Aug 25, 2013)

We ended up hiring someone to complete the job and it is finally done and looks great. I will post a picture soon if I have time.


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