# Now the car wont start



## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

People,

After doing a head gasket with valve job, drove the car (1987 Sunbird GT) for a few days. Today, driving, the ar started to buck here and there, figured something was about to happen. Luckily, I drove it only close to home. 

After AAA dropped me off home (yes, had it towed....LOL!), I checked for stored codes, and no codes (OBD I). Car turns over briskly. No start. I thought with the bucking it is electrical, and not fuel related(?). Any ideas where I should go from here, people?

Thanks. (man, this car is making me work lately).


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Are you sure that you did not run out of gas?

Water in tank, clogged fuel filter.

With what little details you included, a fuel problem is the one glaring cause that hits me. 

A electrical problem in the ignition sequence, the car just quits running like you turned off the key, not bucking and lurching. 

Pull one spark plug wire, hold it close to the plug terminal, turn over the engine, look for a spark jump between the wire and the terminal. 

If spark, look elsewhere for something wrong.

disconnect the gas line from the output of the fuel pump, get a container to catch any gas, if it pumps any hold that to catch gas, then crank the engine a little.

Catch gas, , check it for water content, do not catch gas, then maybe a fuel pump dead, empty tank, plugged filter, vapor lock?


ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

To check the fuel pump when turning ignition key to 1st position (not all the way to turn the starter) shouldnt the fuel pump be heard making a hummmmm? is that a good way to verify fuel pump works? 

Also, just thought- I should check that the timing belt didnt skip a tooth, although I doubt just one tooth would do this. Right?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, it should hum, but some are more apparent then others. If it is like most GM there should be a schraeder valve on the fuel line in the engine compartment. You can get a test gage pretty cheap. Also, it isn't enough to just have some fuel pressure, you need to compare fuel pressure to the spec for the car. Some systems are very sensitive to fuel pressure and the injectors worn't work with what might at first seem to be decent fuel pressure but say 10-15% lower than the spec. Ask me how I learned that lesson. :-/



papereater said:


> To check the fuel pump when turning ignition key to 1st position (not all the way to turn the starter) shouldnt the fuel pump be heard making a hummmmm? is that a good way to verify fuel pump works?
> 
> Also, just thought- I should check that the timing belt didnt skip a tooth, although I doubt just one tooth would do this. Right?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

papereater said:


> To check the fuel pump when turning ignition key to 1st position (not all the way to turn the starter) shouldnt the fuel pump be heard making a hummmmm? is that a good way to verify fuel pump works?
> 
> Also, just thought- I should check that the timing belt didnt skip a tooth, although I doubt just one tooth would do this. Right?


Some electric pumps are nearly silent, others have a check valve that shuts them off if pressure is present, like when the engine is not running using the fuel.

If the belt has skipped, but still working, the engine should be attempting to start, by a backfire, which would be obvious. 

Again I suggest checking the gas tank for fuel.


ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, sounds good, people. Gas tank is about 3/4 full. Im not like some of my relatives..LOL!

When I get home, I will try this and other stuff out. Thanks, people!!


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Compression test= checking Timing belt. Fuel pressure test 35-38 lbs with vacuum line disconnected at fuel pressure regulator engine running.:vs_cool:


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Fuel pump hums quietly upon ignition 1st position. Then I checked the timing belt and wow, the belt skipped a bunch of notches! never seen this. Now, how do I make sure to set it right? maybe remove one spark plug and see inside with a good light, for TDC whilst the timing belt is on 12:00 position?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

How old is the belt, It may have sheared off the teeth on the belt.

Is there a tensioner on the timing belt system, that might have slipped and let it loose to skip?

ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

The belt is new. But sorry to have reported too early that the timing is off based on the belt markings. I initially just viewed the top of the belt white out mark and the white out on sprocket 12:00 pointer, and they were off by 6 notches.

But when I removed the crank pulley just now and turned it to get the sprocket at TDC it matched the crank markings. yes, they both match. But why was my white mark on belt over about 6 notches? I swear I matched it to the sprocket white mark when I put it aLL together but now, I have to confess I cant remember.

The engine ran for almost a week. It is now at TDC (crank mark notch matches cam sprocket), and apparently it was always at TDC. Other than maybe tighten the belt I dont see what else I can do here. 

What the heck is going on?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

de-nagorg said:


> How old is the belt, It may have sheared off the teeth on the belt.
> 
> Is there a tensioner on the timing belt system, that might have slipped and let it loose to skip?
> 
> ED


Yes, there is a tensioner. Simple spring type.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The marks will line up with #1 at TDC on one of the 2 rotations for the 4 stroke cycle. They don't and shouldn't line up on the other rotation. So it sounds like you are OK on the belt.

So it seems we are back to square 1. Got to be spark, fuel, timing... or perhaps the computer. Don't forget cam and/or crank sensors.



papereater said:


> The belt is new. But sorry to have reported too early that the timing is off based on the belt markings. I initially just viewed the top of the belt white out mark and the white out on sprocket 12:00 pointer, and they were off by 6 notches.
> 
> But when I removed the crank pulley just now and turned it to get the sprocket at TDC it matched the crank markings. yes, they both match. But why was my white mark on belt over about 6 notches? I swear I matched it to the sprocket white mark when I put it aLL together but now, I have to confess I cant remember.
> 
> ...


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

The marks will be off on the exhaust stroke, because the cam is now opening the exhaust valve. 

Back to the beginning, check the fuel pressure, check the Electronic Control module. Did you check for spark at the plug?
Conventional rotor under the distributor cap, I have seen one where the pointer had somehow became turned by a few degrees, and was not pointing at #1, when it should be, therefore no spark. 

Again I'll say check for water in the gas. 

Has this car ever vapor locked.

That is where the fuel line gets too close to a heat source and boils the fuel to a vapor.

That shuts the fuel delivery off and it quits running. 

Just throwing possible scenarios out to maybe click some thought in your processor, to maybe give a clue to your problem.


ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

First off, does it have spark? Is it DIS or HEI? Does it have injector pulse? Fuel pressure?:vs_cool:


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Sounds good. Back to basics is welcome. Will check for these obvious when I get home. (wouldnt a bad computer set a code?)


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## JBoot (Jan 15, 2019)

papereater said:


> People,
> 
> After doing a head gasket with valve job, drove the car (1987 Sunbird GT) for a few days.


Please clarify: When you drove it for a few days (mileage?-ex: 2 miles, time?-ex: 15 minutes, speed?-ex: under 10 mph), did it appear to be running okay--until it started to _buck_?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No, a totally fried ECU wouldn't throw a code, especially OBD1 like your 1987.

My bet would be on something simple like the HEI module as mentioned by Brain above or a cam or crank sensor. But if that car has the original fuel pump it it overdue to fail. No fun pulling tanks. (I am assuming this is a FI car and not a carb, but there may still have been some vehicles with carbs that year??).



papereater said:


> Sounds good. Back to basics is welcome. Will check for these obvious when I get home. (wouldnt a bad computer set a code?)


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Update: Wow- just found out there is a great stream of gas fanning into the TBI (I didnt hook up my fuel pressure tester at this time). Then, while wife cranked over the car I found NO spark getting to one of the plugs which had a spark tester on it! Sheesh. No spark, people! Guess now I focus on spark, not fuel, and start with all the components, right? Like module, computer, etc. 

Thanks for all the support.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> First off, does it have spark? Is it DIS or HEI? Does it have injector pulse? Fuel pressure?:vs_cool:


Its HEI. It is not a distributorless ignition. Hope that helps.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> No, a totally fried ECU wouldn't throw a code, especially OBD1 like your 1987.
> 
> My bet would be on something simple like the HEI module as mentioned by Brain above or a cam or crank sensor. But if that car has the original fuel pump it it overdue to fail. No fun pulling tanks. (I am assuming this is a FI car and not a carb, but there may still have been some vehicles with carbs that year??).


It is a TBI. One FI inside a kind of a carb. I will consult my manual for where the crank sensor is. If there even is such a thing(?).


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Been a loooong time since I worked on an HEI and that one I had to replace the "pick up coil" for loss of spark. That coil was in the distributor. Not 100% sure but that might be the equivalent of a cam sensor in an HEI vehicle. Brainbucket can probably list exactly what components you have in the spark path and need to check. Or maybe google for a manual for your car.



papereater said:


> It is a TBI. One FI inside a kind of a carb. I will consult my manual for where the crank sensor is. If there even is such a thing(?).


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> Been a loooong time since I worked on an HEI and that one I had to replace the "pick up coil" for loss of spark. That coil was in the distributor. Not 100% sure but that might be the equivalent of a cam sensor in an HEI vehicle. Brainbucket can probably list exactly what components you have in the spark path and need to check. Or maybe google for a manual for your car.


Thanks, ray. Whats the difference between the pick up coil and the coil function? I do have the haynes manual, and been studying. Im scared to test the module. The tests are sooo long and confusing.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

GM had several generations and iterations of HEI and I am far from an expert. The version with the pick up coil was on my 1978 Firebird. I had yet another version on a 1994 S10 pickup that was very different. Yours is probably different from both of those. I had a 1987 Camaro that probably had your HEI version but it never needed major ignition work. It needed a new engine, transmission and much more, but not the HEI.

Best I can say is if you have no spark is to look at your schematic and test or replace all the components in the spark path. If you do the easter egg method start with the cheapest.

One other thing to maybe take a quick look at... after your big head/valve job maybe an ignition system ground wire came loose or a connector wasn't fully seated. Also look at the harness wires to see if maybe any of them got routed up against the exhaust and melted.



papereater said:


> Thanks, ray. Whats the difference between the pick up coil and the coil function? I do have the haynes manual, and been studying. Im scared to test the module. The tests are sooo long and confusing.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

No spark. Awesome. Now check to see if ignition coil is firing. Put a test light on the negative side of coil and crank. Test light should flash. If so, hold about a 1/2 inch away from the coil tower and crank. Fire should be nice and long. I like it when fire come out of the tower bout an inch. If fire is weak, you'll have to stick the test light in the tower to receive fire. If the coil is flashing but no fire, bad coil. If not, pull distributor cap off and rotor off. Unplug pick up coil and ohm it. Should be around 600 to 900 ohms. If not, bad pick up coil. If so bad module. Generally what kill ignition module in HEI systems is fire goes through the rotor to ground and ignition modules don't like that.:vs_cool:


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If I have personal pictures/pages that I would like to add here.

What would be the easiest and safest way.?

I have the Chilton auto repair manual 1980-1987 trouble shooting.

It may/not be helpful here.

But, I want to make sure it's safe.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brain, Ray, and Ron, Youve given me much homework to do! Time to go home and try this out. 

Will advise asap.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Sounds good. I'd probably start with a quick check of the wires and connectors since you just had a lot of stuff apart... it's easy and I am not a big believer in coincidental failures... but it could be. Good luck!



papereater said:


> Brain, Ray, and Ron, Youve given me much homework to do! Time to go home and try this out.
> 
> Will advise asap.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> No spark. Awesome. Now check to see if ignition coil is firing. Put a test light on the negative side of coil and crank. Test light should flash. :


Wow, such a simple test- I did it and I did have a tester in the drawer. I got NO spark. Gotta be a bad coil, right? Easy to pop in, and cheap too.I am ready to order one. Even IF the timing belt jumped, which I question, the coil is bad, regardless, right?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Heard delco or GM are the best- over knock off OEM's. A little more $ but maybe worth it.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

If I understand which test you did I don't think it's the coil. I believe the first test should show if the coil is getting the signal that goes into the primary coil to trigger the secondary coil to fire the plug. If the coil isn't getting the signal onto the primary your problem is elsewhere.



papereater said:


> Wow, such a simple test- I did it and I did have a tester in the drawer. I got NO spark. Gotta be a bad coil, right? Easy to pop in, and cheap too.I am ready to order one. Even IF the timing belt jumped, which I question, the coil is bad, regardless, right?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> If I understand which test you did I don't think it's the coil. I believe the first test should show if the coil is getting the signal that goes into the primary coil to trigger the secondary coil to fire the plug. If the coil isn't getting the signal onto the primary your problem is elsewhere.


Primary coil vs secondary? I thought I had only one (ignition) coil. I understood that test from Brain to be for the ignition coil(?). Can you please explain further? I wil hold off buying one..........


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

This is what I tested:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=335800&cc=1260784&jsn=404

This is my ignition coil, and what Brain was (I believe) referring to for his (my) test. I dont know of any other coil for my car..........


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, but a coil has 2 windings, the primary that takes the low voltage signal from the ignition system and transforms it to high voltage to fire the plug. Brain really listed 2 tests. The first should tell you if you are getting a signal TO the coil and the second will tell you if you are getting a high voltage pulse OUT of the coil.



papereater said:


> This is what I tested:
> 
> https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=335800&cc=1260784&jsn=404
> 
> This is my ignition coil, and what Brain was (I believe) referring to for his (my) test. I dont know of any other coil for my car..........


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

So, is this the second part of Brain's test?:

Unplug pick up coil and ohm it. Should be around 600 to 900 ohms. If not, bad pick up coil. If so bad module. 

I guess there is an ignition coil and a pick up coil.........Still, my mind is stuck on the fact that the Ignition coil doesnt spark but I still need to test the other coil. Doesnt the energy (spark) come FIRST from the ignition coil? If so, why do I need to test pick up coil. Thanks for your patience!!


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Can you post a picture of a pick up coil? Say, from Rock Auto site? That would help......


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

An HEI system is similar to an old points and condenser system except mechanical points and condenser are replaced by pickup coil and HEI module. In either case to fire each cylinder they "make" the primary 12v circuit that in turn energizes the primary winding on the main ignition coil with 12v which then induces the high voltage output on the secondary winding of the coil to fire one spark plug. This connection and high voltage output then "breaks" until the timing for the next cylinder firing comes around.

So if the pick up coil or HEI module are bad the primary winding of the main coil never gets energized in the first place, hence no high voltage output on the secondary and no spark. Brain's first test was to see if you are getting that initial energization of the primary winding.

The pick up coil sits inside the base of the distributor where the old points and condenser used to live. Here is a good article I just found that might help you.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/the-lost-art-of-servicing-gm-hei/


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Wow, that helped! I ran out there and ohmed those 2 terminals, and got 800+ ohms. So, energy comes FIRST to pick up coil, second to ignition coil, right? So, bad ignition coil highly suspect?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Kinda sorta. It isn't a direct circuit. The pickup coil provides the timing function like the old points. There is a magnet in the dist shaft that the pick up coil senses. The pick up coil triggers the HEI module to do it's thing.




papereater said:


> Wow, that helped! I ran out there and ohmed those 2 terminals, and got 800+ ohms. So, energy comes FIRST to pick up coil, second to ignition coil, right? So, bad ignition coil highly suspect?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Brainbucket said:


> No spark. Awesome. Now check to see if ignition coil is firing. *Put a test light on the negative side of coil and crank. Test light should flash. If so, hold about a 1/2 inch away from the coil tower and crank. Fire should be nice and long. I like it when fire come out of the tower bout an inch. If fire is weak, you'll have to stick the test light in the tower to receive fire. If the coil is flashing but no fire, bad coil.* If not, pull distributor cap off and rotor off. Unplug pick up coil and ohm it. Should be around 600 to 900 ohms. If not, bad pick up coil. If so bad module. Generally what kill ignition module in HEI systems is fire goes through the rotor to ground and ignition modules don't like that.:vs_cool:


This will tell you if it is good or not.:vs_cool:


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> This will tell you if it is good or not.:vs_cool:


Maybe stupid question, but I take it the negative end/terminal of the ignition coil is that pin sticking up where the coil wire snaps on, and goes to distributor cap center, right? 

If so, I did connect my spark tester to that, got no spark whatsoever, so bad coil, right? Im gonna go to AZ and get me a lifetime coil.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

NO. I believe he is talking about the negative of the primary winding circuit for the first test to see if it is even trying to energize the coil in the first place. if that is yes, then check the high voltage secondary output. If first test positive and second negative, then bad coil. If first test negative, then bad pickup coil, HEI module or perhaps even reluctor.



papereater said:


> Maybe stupid question, but I take it the negative end/terminal of the ignition coil is that pin sticking up where the coil wire snaps on, and goes to distributor cap center, right?
> 
> If so, I did connect my spark tester to that, got no spark whatsoever, so bad coil, right? Im gonna go to AZ and get me a lifetime coil.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Funny question... did you try just reseating the coil wire and giving it a go? That had to be off for the head job. It may also have been damaged or cracked internally. I'd test that, too.... or try another one.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> Funny question... did you try just reseating the coil wire and giving it a go? That had to be off for the head job. It may also have been damaged or cracked internally. I'd test that, too.... or try another one.


Coil wire cracked? Doubt it. Just laid it aside carefully. Seated well, I think. But good tip just the same.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Which side of this coil is the negative side? 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=335800&cc=1260784&jsn=404I

I had an old Alfa Romeo (1987 Spider) with a coil that looked way different than the one I have on this sunbird. That clearly had a pos and a neg terminal, but this coil has different setup, kind of slots. If you can maybe point to the neg side that would be great, as I have no clue.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

You said you have the manual. Pull out the wiring schematic. 



papereater said:


> Which side of this coil is the negative side?
> 
> https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=335800&cc=1260784&jsn=404I
> 
> I had an old Alfa Romeo (1987 Spider) with a coil that looked way different than the one I have on this sunbird. That clearly had a pos and a neg terminal, but this coil has different setup, kind of slots. If you can maybe point to the neg side that would be great, as I have no clue.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

If you put the test light on a terminal on the coil, it should light up with key on. Now crank the engine. No flash? Try the other terminal and crank. It should light up then crank engine. should flash. No flash? Then it's not getting a signal from the distributor. Flash and no spark? Bad coil.:vs_cool:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Years ago, I was acquainted with a guy that would go into a used car lot after hours, pick out a car that he wanted to buy, raise the hood, take a small ball peen, tap the distributor cap just enough to crack it.

You could not see any crack, but it was there.

Return the next day, and be a regular customer shopping, try to start the car, amazing it won't start. 

He would haggle them down by at least half, buy the car on the cheap, pull out a new distributor cap, change it out, and drive away in the car. 

The moral to this story, is are you sure that the distributor cap is a good one?

ED


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

LOL, Ed. I can think of some more appropriate morals from that story! But good point.



de-nagorg said:


> Years ago, I was acquainted with a guy that would go into a used car lot after hours, pick out a car that he wanted to buy, raise the hood, take a small ball peen, tap the distributor cap just enough to crack it.
> 
> You could not see any crack, but it was there.
> 
> ...


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> If you put the test light on a terminal on the coil, it should light up with key on. Now crank the engine. No flash? Try the other terminal and crank. It should light up then crank engine. should flash. No flash? Then it's not getting a signal from the distributor. Flash and no spark? Bad coil.:vs_cool:


I think I get it now, about the terminals on the p/u coil. Will try this tomorrow!! Thanks, Brain (and others)!!


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

I not only have the haynes, but the shop manual, and consulted the pages to test both coils. Based on my basic tests with ohmmeter they check out OK. Voltage and resistivity checks. But I am not convinced yet!

What about the ECM? Can that enter in this equation yet?.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I don't have the parts in front of me or the schematic. You do. That's why I was trying to get you to understand a bit about the theory so you'd know where to test. If this is too much of a challenge you could just replace all of it... the main coil, the pickup coil and the HEI module. The stuff isn't very expensive. I'd do the cap, too. Or take it to a shop.




papereater said:


> Bad ignition coil OR bad pick up coil? terminals as in those of the pick up coil or ignition coil? I think Im stuck on these terms/parts........AND what is a "terminal". If only I can get these clear I can be sure of my work. This is where I am at my weakest. A picture would help, with maybe drawn in arrows, if anyone here is good at........Id appreciate very much.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

raylo32 said:


> LOL, Ed. I can think of some more appropriate morals from that story! But good point.


Yes , I know.

But there are some un-scrupled people in this world, besides used car salesmen. 

so always beware, things that seem off.


ED


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

From the X-files... trust no one!



de-nagorg said:


> Yes , I know.
> 
> But there are some un-scrupled people in this world, besides used car salesmen.
> 
> ...


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> I don't have the parts in front of me or the schematic. You do. That's why I was trying to get you to understand a bit about the theory so you'd know where to test. If this is too much of a challenge you could just replace all of it... the main coil, the pickup coil and the HEI module. The stuff isn't very expensive. I'd do the cap, too. Or take it to a shop.


Sheesh, maybe I will end up doing that, Ray, but then that will make me what Ed (Denorg) calls a "parts changer", and I dont want to be known as a parts changer because Ed will not respect me anymore. 

Going out there again, in the mosquito infested heat, to do more diagnostics. One last time, before I buy a bunch of parts to change......LOL


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No shame in that. Your time is worth something too. But if you do all that and it still doesn't spark you will be back to square 1 and need to do the diagnosis to see where in the process the signal is failing. No fun working in those conditions. Been there, done that. Ain't gonna do it no more! Good luck.



papereater said:


> Sheesh, maybe I will end up doing that, Ray, but then that will make me what Ed (Denorg) calls a "parts changer", and I dont want to be known as a parts changer because Ed will not respect me anymore.
> 
> Going out there again, in the mosquito infested heat, to do more diagnostics. One last time, before I buy a bunch of parts to change......LOL


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

papereater said:


> Sheesh, maybe I will end up doing that, Ray, but then that will make me what Ed (Denorg) calls a "parts changer", and I dont want to be known as a parts changer because Ed will not respect me anymore.
> 
> Going out there again, in the mosquito infested heat, to do more diagnostics. One last time, before I buy a bunch of parts to change......LOL


 Not gonna happen. You are showing signs of a true Auto officianado, asking for advice, doing the required investigation before " parts changing."


ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, maybe Im onto something- manual says connect voltmeter to C and check voltage with ignition on, and see if voltage drops as a test light is moved momentarily from the + and P terminals. I got a drop of from 12.13 to 12.09. repeated a few times. Is this a drop to you guys? Cuz it says if there is no drop gotta be bad module. 

So far, p/u coil and ignit coil check out, best I can figure. module is only $33.00.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

.04 volts is not a large enough drop, It should drop around 5+.

Or more, to be substantial. 

Is another module available from a donor car, or maybe a friend has one lying around to test this theory with?


ED


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Not many 87 sunbirds left anywhere, Ed. Even old cavaliers (same engine). Way too old. Im the only one left. But $33 is a cheap way to test it. hey, its either the module, ignition coil, or the p/u coil. I think. All cheap. Any all of mine are original. 
What gets me is the tiny 2 bolts holding the module- the 5mm socket is too small and the 6 mm is too big. What the heck?? In thought all car parts were metric. Gonna resort to maybe using a small adjustable.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Ahh, Yes I remember those.

They made a special tool that fit those modules only, and just the right size to fit in the space between the firewall, and the distributor housing. 

Look for an ignition module tool, at a REAL parts store. 

ED 

Tool like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Autocraft-...091023&hash=item1ef47e1b1b:g:ePYAAOSwC8ZcYzLU


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Got a new module, popped it in (used a small adjustable wrench), and coil sparked!!!

Then I connected all up and engine started!!!! Yahoooooo!!!! I am not a parts changer!!

Ran it a bit, to make sure all was OK. Wow, never figured I would diagnose correctly, as there was so many confusing stuff. But with the help of everyone here I succeeded. 

I am sure to be back here as other stuff goes on this 31 year old car.

Thanks, people!


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

:vs_shake::clap::clap::clap::smartass:

Congratulations; You graduate ignition module 101. :biggrin2:


ED


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

If module mounts in the distributor be sure and use the heat paste under it. Most come with silicone which I guess is better than nothing but the original stuff was thick, almost metallic. Gamers/overlockers use it under chips. Only place Ive found it is electronic stores.


bg


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Change the rotor. If you don't, you'll be doing this again.:vs_cool:


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

papereater said:


> What gets me is the tiny 2 bolts holding the module- the 5mm socket is too small and the 6 mm is too big. What the heck?? In thought all car parts were metric. Gonna resort to maybe using a small adjustable.



Yeah. The 5.5mm socket and yes they make it.:vs_cool:


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