# Kitchen Island - how do I get power to it?



## vsheetz

Planning to add a kitchen island. It will be a simple single level island - granite top on a 48" base cabinet. No crawl space - concrete slab.


As I understand, the island must have an duplex outlet in it - correct?
And the outlet must a GFCI itself, or on a GFCI protected circuit - correct?
How do I mount an electrical box, there is only the 48" base cabinet - no 2x4 framing to nail it to?
How do I get power run to the island? There is a wall switch a few feet away that I could tap, but how to go about running the wire through the concrete? Can I cut a channel in the concrete and lay the wire in the channel?
thx!
Vince


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## TazinCR

The light switch will not have the supply you need. Just a hot and ground. How are you getting water and drain to the island?


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## DangerMouse

vsheetz said:


> As I understand, the island must have an duplex outlet in it - correct?


never heard that before!
i made an island and it has no outlet on it...?

DM


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## theatretch85

MdangermouseM said:


> never heard that before!
> i made an island and it has no outlet on it...?
> 
> DM


It is a requirement in the NEC code book to have an outlet on any counter space larger than 24"; I don't know the exact requirements here (someone else will post the requirements) but I believe the outlet has to be 6-12" from the top of the counter top, and no more than a 6" over hang with the counter in relation to the cabinet base.

Concrete slab you will probably have to chisel out a channel to drop some conduit in and run your wire through that. I couldn't tell you how far down it should go inside a house and much less in a kitchen area. Most kitchens I have ever seen with an island, had some sort of access below it whether it was the basement or a crawl space.

I don't believe water and drain are a requirement to have run to the island (unless of course your putting in a sink at the island). I believe only the electrical is required by code. The switch box may have power run to it, the Op will just have to test the wires for power at the switch and find out, otherwise find an outlet in the kitchen to run the island power off of.


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## DangerMouse

hmmm, you must mean a permanent island then, not a moveable one like i made? and how can the outlet be 6" above an island? aren't they flat???
i'm not getting it, i guess..... i'll put on another pot of coffee......

DM


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## Termite

The code does require a GFCI protected (20amp served) receptacle on every island in a kitchen. Sinks and drains are purely optional on islands, and have no bearing on the electrical requirement. Theatretch85 pretty much summed up the receptacle location requirements.

Mouse makes a good point about the fact that his island is movable. Pretty much impossible to install a receptacle on a movable island. _Although the code makes no mention of it_, it is my opinion that a movable island would be considered furniture and would not require a receptacle. I have encountered this a number of times, and only allow them to skip the receptacle if the island is movable (many people use bun feet and felt pads) and if there is finished flooring underneath. If the floor underneath isn't finished it is my opinion that it is a permanent fixture that will never be moved. I've had a couple builders try to get away with leaving the receptacle out and simply not screwing the cabinet down and leave off the base shoe, and try to convince me it is movable. :no: _Remember, this isn't mentioned in the code, so you'd need to agree on it with your building inspector_. Just an idea...

As for getting the wire to it...
Are you replacing the kitchen flooring? If so, the notch idea in the slab is all I can think of either. Normally, when planning for an island, the builder runs some conduit in/under the slab to fish a wire through.


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## Termite

MdangermouseM said:


> and how can the outlet be 6" above an island? aren't they flat???


It can't. It has to be within 12" of the surface of the countertop, mounted somewhere on the cabinet. It cannot be under a counter overhang that exceeds 6". If any sort of backsplash is included, the receptacle must be installed in the backsplash (some islands have two levels, for instance).

As for mounting the box, use a metal box, which is easily mounted in the cabinet faceframe, a fake drawer front, or a raised panel.


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## DangerMouse

ok, thanks for clearing that up kc. if the OP wanted a cupboard ABOVE the island, the wiring could come from above easily enough too, could it not?

DM


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## Paulustrious

Current Ontario code says that a peninsula or island does not require outlets as there is no wall to mount them on. However you almost certainly do want them. 
They may (not must) be installed below the counter level. You can use one of these methods:
1) 15 amp 3-wire split. 
2) 20 amp 2-wire, with one or two T-slot receptacles 

Code requires GCFI if within 1 metre of the sink. However, use a GCFI in the first receptacle - it's not worth worrying about, and the next generation of Ontario code will demand it.

If the island is close to a wall then the inspector may deem it an eating area that requires receptacles to be mounted on the wall at that point.


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## Termite

Paulustrious said:


> Current Ontario code says that a peninsula or island does not require outlets as there is no wall to mount them on. However you almost certainly do want them.
> They may (not must) be installed below the counter level. You can use one of these methods:
> 1) 15 amp 3-wire split.
> 2) 20 amp 2-wire, with one or two T-slot receptacles
> 
> Code requires GCFI if within 1 metre of the sink. However, use a GCFI in the first receptacle - it's not worth worrying about, and the next generation of Ontario code will demand it.
> 
> If the island is close to a wall then the inspector may deem it an eating area that requires receptacles to be mounted on the wall at that point.


Definate differences between Ontario and the NEC we use in the states! Interesting info!


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## Paulustrious

[offtopic] MDangerMouse, your no-prize quote looks like you've used the metre of the Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll.[/offtopic]

A cable can be suspended from the ceiling (or so I believe) provided it is protected from mechanical damage and supported every 4 feet. I have seen a chrome tube used for this that was also used to support a party-susan pan rack plus lighting. It looked very effective - although I do not know if it was under permit.

thekctermite - does your code vary much from State to State in terms of basic stuff like receptacle location, clamping, de-rating, box fill, grounding etc? I imagine there may be differences in vapour barrier requirements between Florida and Michigan, or maybe special stuff as regards earthquakes.


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## DangerMouse

Paul..... true, it does have that Jabberwocky smell to it.... but i don't think that's where it comes from.... 
but what do i know? i sit under a bridge in a mud puddle all day.....
-=chuckle=-

DM


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## DangerMouse

for anyone paying attention.... that was another clue.... -=chuckle=-
oh, and googleing this will get you nowhere but here.....
DM


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## Termite

Paulustrious said:


> [offtopic]
> thekctermite - does your code vary much from State to State in terms of basic stuff like receptacle location, clamping, de-rating, box fill, grounding etc? I imagine there may be differences in vapour barrier requirements between Florida and Michigan, or maybe special stuff as regards earthquakes.


The electrical code doesn't vary too much, although local jurisdictions and states do adopt their own versions (california, chicago, NY, etc). The NEC is pretty widely accepted. 

Building codes tend to vary regionally, and even from city to city. The International (ICC) codes are the norm, but there are a number of other exceptions depending on where you're at. You're right...What works in Florida won't work in Kansas, and what works in Kansas won't work in California or North Dakota.


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## sestivers

theatretch85 said:


> It is a requirement in the NEC code book to have an outlet on any counter space larger than 24"; I don't know the exact requirements here (someone else will post the requirements) but I believe the outlet has to be 6-12" from the top of the counter top, and no more than a 6" over hang with the counter in relation to the cabinet base.


Crap. A couple years ago my kitchen was repaired by a contractor. When the island countertop was reinstalled, they rotated the countertop 180 degreees so the overhang is on the opposite end from its original configuration. So now I have about 16" of countertop overhanging above the outlet.

Do I need to remove the countertop and rotate it to its original configuration with ~1" of overhang above the outlet and the 16" overhang on the opposite end?


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## 220/221

LOL....did anyone answer his Q?

You need a recep in the island. 
It must come from the 20 amp GFCI kitchen circuit.

Sawcut (or jack hammer) and stub up in the wall and under the toe kick.

Install 3/4 PVC conduit turned up into the wall and an inch above the floor. 

Run your 12/2 cable from source to island leaving a few feet hanging out at island.

when installing cabinet, drill holes in the back corner to run cable into cabinet. If it's a drawer base, I just run the exposed cable. If it is an open cabinet. I run the cable thru flex.

Mount an old work/retrofit/cut in box in the side of your caninet, close to the top and terminate the wiring in it.


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## theatretch85

sestivers said:


> Crap. A couple years ago my kitchen was repaired by a contractor. When the island countertop was reinstalled, they rotated the countertop 180 degreees so the overhang is on the opposite end from its original configuration. So now I have about 16" of countertop overhanging above the outlet.
> 
> Do I need to remove the countertop and rotate it to its original configuration with ~1" of overhang above the outlet and the 16" overhang on the opposite end?


To be code compliant, yes. How big is your island? You may be required to put two outlets in the island...

What about the other two sides of the cabinet? does the counter top hang over more than 6 inches on those sides?

As for the 6-12" from the top, I meant it to be 6-12" _Down_ from the top of the counter top on the cabinet. But like was said earlier, if there is a back splash it must be installed there.


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## sestivers

It's a rectangular island with a four-burner electric range set into the countertop. There is no counter space except for some where the ~10" overhang is (previously stated as 16"). The other three sides of the countertop overhang the cabinet by about an inch.

I've attached a picture... the overhang used to be on the opposite side and thus not overhanging the outlet.


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## vsheetz

Thanks all for the good info.

I am on a slab, no water or drain, and where there previously was not an island. Looks like I need a channel cut in the slab to get power to the island.

I'll confirm all with the building department for the specifics - your info will help me best understand the requirements.

Thanks!


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## DangerMouse

Steve--> darn, still more than 6 inches.... how hard is it going to be to turn it around? seems to be the logical conclusion at this point.
Sheets--> keep us posted. =o)
DM


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## Gigs

Seems to me that moving the outlet would be easier than turning the countertop around.


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## Termite

Moving that receptacle all the way left or all the way right would be the best course of action in my opinion. Actually, you could add a receptacle and meet the code requirement, and just leave the non-compliant receptacle in place...Nothing says it can't be there, it just can't be counted as meeting the requriement for an island receptacle. If the receptacle is under the overhang I can't see how you'd be in violation of the code if it is located within 6" of the non-overhanging edge. Centered as is it is, you've not met code.


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## DangerMouse

i thought that too, but it seems to me unless that top is glued down, it'd be easier to release the clips and turn it around instead of wiring in a new outlet. but another outlet is an option too. always nice to have an extra outlet!

DM


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## sestivers

Well, I do appreciate the ideas for making this thing "code compliant". I just don't like them! I can't just move the outlet because then I'd have a hole in the side of my cabinet. I could cover it with a blank cover, but I think that would look ridiculous and invite question. I probably could rotate the countertop at the risk of F'ing it up, but we are used to the overhang the way it is now. Besides, it seems that the outlet would still be violating code because it's about 3" below the countertop, not 6".

Is there any chance that this part of the code is relatively new? The island was built in 1995, and the kitchen was repaired in 2005 (2005 is when the countertop was put on the "wrong" way by the contractor performing the repair). If so, it can be grandfathered, right? Also, what is the concern here? Is there something that is actually unsafe about the configuration it's in?

I don't suppose I can have the contractor come to restore the countertop to its original, code-compliant configuration nearly 3 years after the fact, can I? For free, I mean.


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## DangerMouse

since you like it where it is now, just tap into the outlet on it and put a compliant one on the other end. remember GFCI if needed. like kc said, the one that is there can stay, but will not count as the required outlet.

DM


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## Termite

Sestivers,

Not sure what the NEC said back in '95 (I know the '99 NEC/2000 IRC required it as previously described), but there's no need to meet current code unless you're currently remodeling it. The code we're discussing is written to discourage people from stretching cords across the kitchen to reach the island due to having the receptacle in an inconvenient location on the island. If you ever sell the house and a pre-purchase inspector flags it, the worst thing you'd have to do is one of the options that has been suggested. 

As for getting the builder back 3 years later to correct a code violation...That is asking a lot given the time that has passed. It passed inspection somehow, I assume, so the builder should be reasonably free and clear.


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## jbfan

If you feel it is that big of an issue, then put one in the back. If you put it on the other side of the island, you would not have any usable counter space.


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## DangerMouse

good points both, kc and jbfan! :yes: better for a coffee pot or whatever on the back side.

DM


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## sestivers

Oh, I see that I misunderstood. So I don't have to remove/disable the existing outlet, I would just need to add a new one in a code-correct location. That wouldn't be so bad, but I think I would defer it until the change were mandated. Thank you for the clarification.


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## vsheetz

220/221 said:


> LOL....did anyone answer his Q?
> 
> You need a recep in the island.
> It must come from the 20 amp GFCI kitchen circuit.
> 
> Sawcut (or jack hammer) and stub up in the wall and under the toe kick.
> 
> Install 3/4 PVC conduit turned up into the wall and an inch above the floor.
> 
> Run your 12/2 cable from source to island leaving a few feet hanging out at island.
> 
> when installing cabinet, drill holes in the back corner to run cable into cabinet. If it's a drawer base, I just run the exposed cable. If it is an open cabinet. I run the cable thru flex.
> 
> Mount an old work/retrofit/cut in box in the side of your caninet, close to the top and terminate the wiring in it.


Do I have to do anything to close in or cover the channel I cut in the concrete? A hardwood floor will be installed in the area.

thx!
Vince


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## 220/221

Crap....I already answered this one in October 

Well...here's another answer.





You need to come from an existing *counter top* recep.

Jackhammer the concrete from the wall with power to anywhere under the island (assuming it has an enclosed kick space.) All standard cabinets do.

If you have it sawcut first, it will be cleaner and easier, but it's not necessary. One you get started the concrete comes out pretty easily with a 50 pound electric demo hammer and pointed bit. It takes some work to get under the bottom plate of the wall.

Once the concrete is out, dig down a bit with a claw hammer and your hands (gloves are required for girly men).

Install a length of 3/4 PVC with 90's on each end and run your 12/2 cable thru it, leaving enough stubbed out to run thru the cabinets to the recep location. SOME inspectors will require UF cable as they consider under the slab, underground. I always run NM and have been called on it once.

*Fill the trench with the AB that came out and* *the last 4" with mortar. Make sure it's flush with the existing floor.*

When installing the island cabinets, route the wire in a logical way to the location of the recep. I usually slide flex over it to protect it from pots and pan damage. Use a cut in box for the recep. Get your cabinet guy to cut the hole with his rotozip or jigsaw. A mistake on a finished cabinet will ruin your day. The box slides in and anchors to the cabinet side.


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## vsheetz

220/221 said:


> If you have it sawcut first, it will be cleaner and easier, but it's not necessary. One you get started the concrete comes out pretty easily with a 50 pound electric demo hammer and pointed bit. It takes some work to get under the bottom plate of the wall.


I got it saw cut and chiseled out, save for going under the bottom plate. Does the conduit have to run through the center of the bottom plate - or can I notch the side of the bottom plate enought to clearance the conduit? Easier if I can just notch.

Thx!!
Vince


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## 220/221

Notch and nail plate it to protect from drywall screws/nails


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## vsheetz

220/221 said:


> Notch and nail plate it to protect from drywall screws/nails


Thanks for the super fast answer!!!


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## A&G Designs

*Power to island*



Termite said:


> The code does require a GFCI protected (20amp served) receptacle on every island in a kitchen. Sinks and drains are purely optional on islands, and have no bearing on the electrical requirement. Theatretch85 pretty much summed up the receptacle location requirements.
> 
> Mouse makes a good point about the fact that his island is movable. Pretty much impossible to install a receptacle on a movable island. _Although the code makes no mention of it_, it is my opinion that a movable island would be considered furniture and would not require a receptacle. I have encountered this a number of times, and only allow them to skip the receptacle if the island is movable (many people use bun feet and felt pads) and if there is finished flooring underneath. If the floor underneath isn't finished it is my opinion that it is a permanent fixture that will never be moved. I've had a couple builders try to get away with leaving the receptacle out and simply not screwing the cabinet down and leave off the base shoe, and try to convince me it is movable. :no: _Remember, this isn't mentioned in the code, so you'd need to agree on it with your building inspector_. Just an idea...
> 
> As for getting the wire to it...
> Are you replacing the kitchen flooring? If so, the notch idea in the slab is all I can think of either. Normally, when planning for an island, the builder runs some conduit in/under the slab to fish a wire through.


So should you put conduit in the notch in the slab too?


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## md2lgyk

How old is your house? I suspect it's not code acceptable now, but in the only slab house I ever owned (built in 1948) the plumbing was in the slab, not under it. Could be a problem when you start chiseling.


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