# Reasons for high Electrical bills?



## chandler48

At what temperature did the last tenants keep the unit. And at what temperature does your daughter keep it? Keeping the temperature of the thermostat at a higher state could influence the electric bill vastly.


----------



## v194

Honestly I dont really know for sure. Im thinking 75? I think the shock is that its one person and the difference between two months is 55% higher. Just wondering if there is something wrong with the HVAC's efficiency and if so how to get the apartments landlord to understand the situation.


----------



## chandler48

Maintenance people tend to be a little overly lazy (my apologies to maintenance people who aren't), and they probably aren't as versed on HVAC as those in the profession. You could always have it independently checked out with the permission of the landlord to see if it is efficient or not. Keep in mind the third floor in summer is much hotter than the floors below, and the previous tenant may have been there during a more temperate month(s).


----------



## Bud9051

Identifying the reason for different electric bills can be confusing. Do they read the meter monthly or estimate and correct at the next actual reading?
Set temperature as Chandler mentioned needs to be determined.
In some cases reading the meter herself and keeping a record can help identify the problem and provide support if it needs to be corrected. What type of meter and can she access it to obtain readings?
Can you give us some actual numbers as opposed to percentages? A $15 difference is less of a concern than a $50 difference. 

Bud


----------



## hkstroud

Is the stove gas or electric? 
If electric, does she do a lot of cooking, especially baking?
Is there a clothes washer and dryer? If so is the dryer electric or gas? Is it used a lot?


----------



## v194

hkstroud said:


> Is the stove gas or electric?
> If electric, does she do a lot of cooking, especially baking?
> Is there a clothes washer and dryer? If so is the dryer electric or gas? Is it used a lot?


Its electric, she has used the stove 2 times this past month.
Washer and dryer (electric) she has used it 3 times this past month.


----------



## Tizzer

v194 said:


> Honestly I dont really know for sure. Im thinking 75? I think the shock is that its one person and the difference between two months is 55% higher. Just wondering if there is something wrong with the HVAC's efficiency and if so how to get the apartments landlord to understand the situation.


So you don't know. You don't know if the previous tenant even used the air back in May. Can you tell if the stat. in your daughter's apt. is fairly modern/accurate?
When she heads off to work, does she leave it at 72 instead of turning it up a bit. Say to 78.
I do and I live upstairs and get $40 electric bills.


----------



## v194

Tizzer said:


> So you don't know. You don't know if the previous tenant even used the air back in May. Can you tell if the stat. in your daughter's apt. is fairly modern/accurate?
> When she heads off to work, does she leave it at 72 instead of turning it up a bit. Say to 78.
> I do and I live upstairs and get $40 electric bills.


I asked and she said she leaves it on 75* all the time.
The T-stat is an old analog type probably from when the building was first constructed. I hope to get some specs on the HP unit and from what I see it look like it has been there since the building was built. Im guessing at least 15 years ago? I don't know at this point.
If it does prove to be old and inefficient I doubt the management staff will care one iota if the tenant gets high bills because of it. Replacement on a "functioning" unit would probably never happen because of the initial cost.


----------



## Nik333

v194 said:


> Its electric, she has used the stove 2 times this past month.
> Washer and dryer (electric) she has used it 3 times this past month.


I hate to say this, but it seems odd that she only used the washer & dryer 3x in a month. Is there any reason she might not want to tell you about the use? Are you paying for rent & utilities?


----------



## v194

Nik333 said:


> I hate to say this, but it seems odd that she only used the washer & dryer 3x in a month. Is there any reason she might not want to tell you about the use? Are you paying for rent & utilities?


No (laughs) She is paying and as an aside she is a very thrifty graduate student. 
She usually does laundry once a week, (4 weeks in a month) It happens that she has used it only 3 times last month.
We are just at a loss as to why the usage or kilowatt hour used is so high, and are looking to see if the appliances (old refrigerator in the unit and heat pump) might be to blame. Perhaps lack of insulation too.
I'm just under the feeling that the old stuff and lack of skilled apartment construction might be to blame. IDK??


----------



## hkstroud

Suggest that you or your daughter turns the thermostat up so air conditioner is not running, turn everything electrical off, then go out and observe the electric meter.

Now even a clock or a door bell will make the meter turn but is should be very,very slow. Then you can begin turning things back on to locate the source of use.


----------



## Tizzer

v194 said:


> I asked and she said she leaves it on 75* all the time.
> The T-stat is an old analog type probably from when the building was first constructed. I hope to get some specs on the HP unit and from what I see it look like it has been there since the building was built. Im guessing at least 15 years ago? I don't know at this point.
> If it does prove to be old and inefficient I doubt the management staff will care one iota if the tenant gets high bills because of it. Replacement on a "functioning" unit would probably never happen because of the initial cost.


Get a digital thermostat. Costs around $25. Ask the Office if maintenance can put it in or if you can if you know how. When I head out in the a.m.. I turn the stat up to 79 or so. No need for a cold home when no one is there.
I put a 52 inch ceiling fan in the living room of a mine and a few tenants here. 
I know for a fact we wouldn't swap out a perfectly working a/c unit just because a tenant of 2 months had "high' electric bills. Think of the tenants that have been there for years.
If you rented out a house for instance, would you spend hundreds of dollars for a new unit even though the old one worked?

Think of the bright side, only another month and a half before it starts to cool down. I know I do as I hate summer heat.:devil3: Upstairs units like your daughter's stay warmer during the cold months and run less heat


----------



## craig11152

If she keeps the temp at 75 and the last person dialed up in the day, and opened windows and used a box fan at night that could make a huge difference.


----------



## 47_47

Are you just comparing dollar amounts or kWh? Sometimes new accounts are charged an additional fee and instead of a one-time billing, they will split it up over 12 months.


----------



## v194

I have been able to confirm that the complex was built in 1992 so the Heat Pump Air conditioning unit was installed then and is the original one for the unit. *So the unit is 25 years old.*


----------



## v194

Tizzer said:


> Get a digital thermostat. Costs around $25. Ask the Office if maintenance can put it in or if you can if you know how. When I head out in the a.m.. I turn the stat up to 79 or so. No need for a cold home when no one is there.
> I put a 52 inch ceiling fan in the living room of a mine and a few tenants here.
> I know for a fact we wouldn't swap out a perfectly working a/c unit just because a tenant of 2 months had "high' electric bills. Think of the tenants that have been there for years.
> If you rented out a house for instance, would you spend hundreds of dollars for a new unit even though the old one worked?
> 
> Think of the bright side, only another month and a half before it starts to cool down. I know I do as I hate summer heat.:devil3: Upstairs units like your daughter's stay warmer during the cold months and run less heat


I think digital is a good idea.
However I have had several HVAC techs tell me that raising the temp during the day or night and then have the unit try to play catch up prior to you arriving home is not efficient and it will cost more in the long run because the unit had to work hard to bring the temp back down. Its harder to bring the temp down that is is to maintain the temp. Just what I was told.


----------



## Bud9051

" However I have had several HVAC techs tell me that raising the temp during the day or night and then have the unit try to play catch up prior to you arriving home is not efficient and it will cost more in the long run because the unit had to work hard to bring the temp back down."
I disagree. I'm not an ac pro but I suspect that long continuous runs are more efficient that start/stop cycling. But even if the efficiency remains the same the savings will come from less heat gain when the house is at a higher temperature. Recovery time needs to be anticipated but typically I would expect a higher setting when no one is home to lower energy costs.

Bud


----------



## Tizzer

v194 said:


> I have been able to confirm that the complex was built in 1992 so the Heat Pump Air conditioning unit was installed then and is the original one for the unit. *So the unit is 25 years old.*


You don't know that. Just because the place was built in '92 doesn't mean that unit is the original. But you seem more concerned about the age of the a/c then following up on some suggestions here(like checking your meter,etc.).

BTW. Just got my electric bill today. $43 bucks. Place built in '79 I hear.


----------



## hkstroud

> But you seem more concerned about the age of the a/c then following up on some suggestions here(like checking your meter,etc.).


I agree.

You have not told us how you know how much the previous tenant paid. Nor have you told us what 50% is in real numbers. Neither do you know the previous tenants habits. Perhaps the previous tenant was a way in the previous month. 

Forget the questions about the efficiency of the air conditioning unit. The air conditioning unit that is there is the one your daughter rented.


----------



## user_12345a

So many things can cause high electric bills and guessing isn't a good strategy.

The age of the unit, the seer rating are among the last things I would look at.

How many kwh per day are being used?

Is the water heater electric? (that will add 5 to 10+ kwh per day to the bill)

If there's an issue with a hvac unit, it likely has more to do with dirty coils, bad ductwork (low airflow? leaks?), or wrong refrigerant charge than the unit's ratings.

Performance is very much influenced by the application.

A 25 year old unit can run efficiently if properly sized and set up right. 

There are people who have low electricity bills running 8 to 10 seer units; the trick is low heat gain to begin with, proper installation, sizing, good airflow, ducts that don't leak into unconditioned spaces.

High humidity can be caused by excessive air infiltration and/or an oversized unit.


----------



## user_12345a

> " However I have had several HVAC techs tell me that raising the temp during the day or night and then have the unit try to play catch up prior to you arriving home is not efficient and it will cost more in the long run because the unit had to work hard to bring the temp back down."




This is wrong - totally wrong.

Running continuously for a few hours is more efficient than cycling on and off; it takes 10+ minutes of run time to reach rated capacity all while it's consuming close to the same kw.

The lower the temperature difference between inside and outside, the less cooling is needed.

The capacity to recover isn't there though with properly sized a/c so it shouldn't be set more than 2 to 3f higher than the regular setting.


It's more effective to maintain a higher moderate setting to begin with than to play yo-yo. Like 75f all the time is better than going between 72f and 77f.

The best application for setback in cooling application is time of use rates. you can save a lot by pre-cooling during off peak periods.


----------



## Nik333

hkstroud said:


> Forget the questions about the efficiency of the air conditioning unit. The air conditioning unit that is there is the one your daughter rented.



I agree with much of what you say, but the latter. She rented a home that is required to be habitable. If the electric bills are unusually high, then something needs to be done. But, as most say, other things need to be tried first. She's most likely smart but young. You have to learn sometime how to handle household temps.

It's hot in most of California. I raise the temp when I leave & it always feels cooler when I get home. Your body equilibrates to temp changes. I'm constantly trying to be able to be comfortable in a higher heat in the Summer or cooler temp in the Winter & eventually it works until the weather changes.


----------



## 47_47

No one is saying his daughter can't be comfortable. 

Questions were asked about the dollar amount increase, previous tenets usage, temperature settings... and no answer to any. 

No one posting can determine if there is even a problem and best op may get is an apple to orange comparison.


----------



## user_12345a

when renting a place and paying for heating and cooling, everyone needs to check usage history before signing contract.

when landlords pay for repairs/upgrades and tenants pay for utilities, naturally nothing will get done as long as everything is working, not necessarily properly.

there are laws which say it has to be at x temp but nothing to my knowledge about utilities.


----------



## hkstroud

t


> here are laws which say it has to be at x temp but nothing to my knowledge about utilities.


BS, not in US, quote one.


----------



## user_12345a

i'm not in the us so i wouldn't know.

most canadian cities have bylaws with minimum required temps in winter.

i'm sure a lot of american cities do too.


----------



## That Guy

I gave up trying to figure out the POCO's billing system.... supposedly I use more electricity than all my neighbors, including the 1 guy and 3 teen age girls across the street...

I live alone and all my lights are led ect.. yet some how I still use more... go figure.


----------



## Bud9051

I understand your frustration, but you are giving up two easily.
When I have a tough assessment to do I start with a list of ALL appliances and devices that use power.
Next column is how much power they use per hour when on.
Next column is an estimated number of hours used per month (rough estimate is fine).
Then a column for total KWH per month for that device.
Then, if desired a total cost per month (KWH x your rate).

At the bottom you total the KWHs used and the total cost.

I never expect to hit their actual bills the first time through, but it is a worksheet that can point to the problem area. 90% of the time the home owner finds the offending appliance during the process of creating the spreadsheet.

When the numbers just won't add up to match that spreadsheet becomes the basis for your month after month adjustments. Dropping the ball and letting the bills ride will drive you crazy so build the spreadsheet to at least track what is happening and eventually you will have a resolution.

Bud


----------



## CrazyGuy

hkstroud said:


> Suggest that you or your daughter turns the thermostat up so air conditioner is not running, turn everything electrical off, then go out and observe the electric meter.
> 
> Now even a clock or a door bell will make the meter turn but is should be very,very slow. Then you can begin turning things back on to locate the source of use.


^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

See if something is drawing when it shouldn't be. Damaged wires could be feeding electric to somewhere that they shouldn't be. Yes, this does happen and the breaker may not kick. Also, how are you sure that the last tenant had the lower utility bills, the landlord could've lied to make the place look more appealing. Another question would be is if the electric co raised there rates.


----------



## Johnpbrown

There might be the problem with the meter reading process please check it first. If the meter is proper and still it is consuming high power then all the connection should be checked properly.


----------



## rjordan393

Just a hunch.
If not the meter, then I would suspect someone ran a improper wire run from the connection leading to the renters apartment to feed another apartment.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

rjordan393 said:


> Just a hunch.
> If not the meter, then I would suspect someone ran a improper wire run from the connection leading to the renters apartment to feed another apartment.


JORDAN^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ it happens....?


Also.... I know you can pull the last 12 month billings if they are yours and you are selling/buying a home.

You might call the utility and see if you can have the historical billings for that unit... or perhaps the apartment manager can.

At least you can verify if the previous tenent really had that much lower billings on a consistant basis.

(In the alternative, on what basis do you believe the previous tenent had lower bills... word of mouth...? one months billing statement...?)


----------



## Oso954

This is a zombie thread guys.

OP hasn't posted since August.

Had a short revival in November.

It's back for a second time.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

Oso954 said:


> This is a zombie thread guys.
> 
> OP hasn't posted since August.
> 
> Had a short revival in November.
> 
> It's back for a second time.


DUH..... on us...:biggrin2:

(But I hope his daughter has not used too much electricity since August:wink2


----------



## rjordan393

Duh on me too.
But I been around long enough to know that some so called 
wannabe contractors will take shortcuts and do a job improperly and maybe against code.


----------



## rjordan393

Duh on me too.
But I been around long enough to know that some so called 
wannabe contractors will take shortcuts and do a job improperly and maybe against code and once a customer ask me to go against code, then I refused.


----------

