# Best acrylic paint for trim and cabinets??????



## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Hello All--- first time poster here.

I actually have two subjects. I'll start with the one from the title of my post.

I have trim and cabinets that have already been painted, but I'm looking for a new best paint that I can use on everything. I've used Behr before and more recently picked up some Pro Classic (all water based acrylic) for touching up the kitchen cabinets. Those places on the doors where fingers touch just don't hold up and have to be redone occassionally. So, going forward I want to choose the best paint possible and stick with it-- so I have consistency. I don't care about cost--just getting the best paint and one that will be fairly easy to apply. I've told my wife to put "couldn't leave well enough alone" -- I have trouble applying and walking away. I've read about Aura, Duration, ProClassic (which I've used) and others, but opinions are many and I'm confused about what route to take here. On my shelf of paints, I have a mix of SW and BM paints and I'm not loyal to either, but I'd like to go with something from one of those two stores. My exterior trim and siding is BM (Moorgaurd and Arborcoat) and my deck is SW deck paint. I'm not really interested in oil or hybrids--- just a rock solid waterborne acrylic that is fairly easy to apply. Stick with ProClassic or move to something else?

Ok,this brings me to the second issue. Much of the trim in my house was painted in oil originally and has yellowed. Unknowingly, I painted over some of it with latex and out of dumb luck, most of it has adhered pretty well. Perhaps it was because the oil had a number of years on it. In a few places, however, it hasn't stuck as well as I had hoped. My plan is to sand and prime any of the trim that I've recoated in latex, as well as the stuff that is oil. For the latex coated oil, I'll just go after the problem areas and get as much of it as I can. So the question here is, does this sound like a good plan and what primer should I use. I've read that I should use an oil primer, but I've also been told that I could use latex primer (Fresh Start). A guy at one of the paint stores even said he would just go straight waterborne paint -- no sand/no prime.....? 

Thanks for the input!


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Definitely "search" on here and do lots of reading as this topic comes up at least once or twice a month.

You will get as many opinions as there are members on here. I personally like SW's Proclassic waterborne. I don't know why exactly, I guess I like the way it lays on the surface and levels out to a glassy hard finish. You may or may not like that type of finish. It is hard to work with as you can get runs and you can't overwork the paint or you end up with "dead" spots in your finish.

As for primer for old, glossy, oil finishes, I like Zinsser's 1-2-3 water based. In 34 years of painting I have found it to be the most cost effective, easy to use bonding primer on the market and it smells so much better than an oil-based product.


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks, Gymschu. I've only really rolled on some of the ProClassic as touch-up on the cabinets, so I don't have much experience brushing it. I suppose I could take a piece of scrap wood and brush some on to try it. I do like that it is specifically designed for cabinets and trim, but I just wanted to be sure I was making the best possible choice before going down that road. It seems that there are higher end paints at SW and BM, but that they aren't necessarily the best fit for cabinets and trim. 

Thanks for the primer advice as well. I also like the idea of a water based primer and it sounds like a pretty good endorsement of that Zinseer product.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

_"Those places on the doors where fingers touch just don't hold up and have to be redone occassionally."_​I'd like to ask you this - and I'd be looking for an honest answer from you:

Do you feel that the quality of the previous paints is responsible for the lack of performance on your cabinets, and is that why you are looking for a better quality paint? 

:huh:


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Well, I've used a mix of paints on my cabinets, but I'm pretty sure it has been Behr. My kitchen cabinets are a light green and I painted my bathroom cabinets white. The were all 1988 stained dark oak originally. I believe I used a Kilz or similar product originally and then coated with the Behr semi-gloss. For the most part, all of this paint has held up pretty well (much of it for 10 years or more). The only really trouble areas are where our hands touch-- like the top of the door under the sink. Our greasy, acidic (lots of tomatoes at my house), soap covered, and who knows what else (probably some sunscreen mixed in) hands touch those areas regularly and the latex just tends to soften. We could have used oil, but I didn't want to deal with the smell or the clean up or the yellowing. So, every couple years, I sand/peel, recoat with some primer and reapply paint. This is also true for the door to the garage--- right around where the handle is. I've told my wife that if we actually used pulls and door knobs, we probably wouldn't have to repaint. 

Would this have happened with better paint? I'm not sure. The key going forward is that I have a whole lot of trim that is still oil and lots of touching up to do where it was originally latex and has gotten soft, and I want to use the best paint possible-- possibly in hopes of getting better results on the cabinets and getting something very solid over the oil. This mix of paints throughout the house is making me crazy. If you came to my house to paint, I'd have to make a map of which trim was oil and which was latex originally or latex over oil---- ughhhh.

Really, I want the best paint and I want to use the best approach, which is why I also asked about priming and sanding the oil. I look back at paint buying decisions in the past and I scratch my head at what brand I was buying. Now, I want the best so any problems with the finish will most definitely be user error and not the paint!


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Eastern, you're on the right track. Others will fill you in with info about Benjamin Moore cabinet paints or other companies with quality cabinet paints. I mostly use SW so that is what I know the best.......but, there certainly are equals to Proclassic out there I'm sure. As for your finger mark areas........with painted cabinets ( no matter what paint you use) that is always going to be an issue. With higher quality paints, the marks wipe off without taking some of the paint off. So, like I said, you're on the right track with this project.


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks again Gymschu. I have both stores near my house, so I'm ok with either. I probably going with a BM color, but SW can match it if I stick with the ProClassic or other.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

As far as BM trim paints- I have used Aura Satin- works great- dries very fast so is a bit hard to handle without a little practice ) and a splash of water..)
Advance is a waterborne oil- works like a WB, wears like an oil.

Impervo Waterborne was their first replacement for oil trim, some still like it the best.

If it were me , I think I'd go with Advance. 

Read direction on all- they each have their quirks ( as all WB do..)


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

As brush said the Advance is very nice,I just got done doing some new cabs with it and am very happy( so is the client)


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

EasternJ said:


> A guy at one of the paint stores even said he would just go straight waterborne paint


Be careful with the terminology - I read your post and I can't even understand what you're looking for. You don't want "hybrid". But what most people mean when they say "waterborne" is probably what you mean by "hybrid" - which is a "waterborne" alkyd. It gets confusing and I don't know if there are hard and fast definitions, but "water based" paint usually means the solvent is water. "Waterborne" basically means the "vehicle" is water even if it isn't the solvent. ProClassic keeps it confusing because it says "waterbased acrylic alkyd" on the label.

Anyway, these finishes shouldn't scare you. They are soap and water cleanup. Some are made of plant based oils now (soy or whatever). You don't need paint thinner to clean your dishes after a meal just because you have some vegetable oil on them. So if cleanup isn't hard, what's your issue with a "hybrid"? You should seriously consider a paint like Advance. There's really no reason I see that you should be repainting every couple years.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

And if I'm not mistaken (possible, just not probable) both pro classic and advance are enamels which should be easier to clean and a harder finish maybe less open to the other things that seemed to soften the other paint.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> And if I'm not mistaken (possible, just not probable) both pro classic and advance are enamels


Oh no, don't get us started on the definition of that one!  For example, Behr's "Flat Enamel" acrylic wall paint.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Flat enamel is like jumbo shrimp. 

Enamel is shiny, and hard. Flat is not.

Flat enamel is just not very shiny..it still has a sheen.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I think I mentioned somewhere - it looks like Behr is replacing the term "flat enamel" on their labels with "matte" - which seems to be becoming standard in the industry for just a bit more sheen than flat, which is kinda weird because in English matte is basically a synonym for flat.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

EasternJ said:


> Hello All--- first time poster here.
> 
> I actually have two subjects. I'll start with the one from the title of my post.
> 
> ...


I have been using the waterborne alkyds quite a bit lately mostly from SW, BM and Pittsburg and I have to tell you the more I use them the less I like them. It dries to quick so too thin a coat and it never gets a chance to lay down like it should. Too thick and it runs. I am finding it to be much more of a pain in the butt than it is worth. Floetrol and water seems to help a little, but just a little.

One thing I would like to point out is if you don't like the way oil based has held up with finger prints, you are probably going to hate latex/acrylic.

If it were me and I had a house with mostly oil trim then that is what I would stick with. For a lot of people that is not an option. If you must make the switch to a waterborne or waterbased product you really should prime it. My first recommendation would be an oil primer. My second would be Zinsser 123.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

jeffnc said:


> I think I mentioned somewhere - it looks like Behr is replacing the term "flat enamel" on their labels with "matte".


 Valspar dropped the term as well. It's now called 'Super Flat. Kind of confusing, because its certainly not 'flat'.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Matthewt1970 said:


> One thing I would like to point out is if you don't like the way oil based has held up with finger prints, you are probably going to hate latex/acrylic.


I believe he's saying it's the acrylic repaints that are not holding up.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Valspar dropped the term as well. It's now called 'Supper Flat. Kind of confusing, because its certainly not 'flat'.


 
that IS confusing:laughing:


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks everybody.

I'll clarify a few things here. The oil painted trim in my house has held up great, but has yellowed. One thing I did that hopefully won't bite me (I thought it was pretty smart at the time), is that when it was time to touch-up the oil trim, I took an A/C return door to the paint store and had them match the yellowed paint. Worked great, but unless the original paint continues to yellow, the new paint I got to match it might stand out over time.

Ok, next clarification: The problem areas are areas that are all latex. The doors under my sink (kitchen cabinets) where the garbage can is, and where our dirty hands always touch, that paint gets soft and wants to peel a bit. I've just sanded/scraped, primed and painted every couple years. I don't know if this would have happened with oil paint, but it is what it is.

Next: When I said hybrid I meant waterborne alkyd. I've read a bunch about Advance and others and they just seem like a lot of trouble and the long open time scares me. 

Right now my kitchen cabinets and bathroom cabinets are all latex (latex from the start). The trim in these areas is either original latex or latex over oil, which has held up pretty well, considering the lack of prep and priming. Elsewhere through the house (halls, bedrooms, etc.) that's where the oil trim is. So, my problem is, and the reason for this post, is that I have this silly mix of paints through the house that I want to make consistent. I want ease of application, no yellowing, no fumes, and a rock solid finish--- or as close as I can get. And because I'm pretty well ruling out one of the waterborne alkyds, I really want to know what is the best choice of latex paint for all my cabinets and trim--- Aura, Duration, ProClassic, Regal Select, etc.

By the way, the ProClassic I've been using to touch up the cabinets is the latex version. I went with this before because it says that its for cabinets and trim right there on the label.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

chrisn said:


> that IS confusing:laughing:


 Ya know, Supper flat...comes after Dinner flat... Whoops


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

EasternJ said:


> I've read a bunch about Advance and others and they just seem like a lot of trouble and the long open time scares me.


Not sure why long open time would scare you. In fact it's one of the important attributes of a good trim paint in most people's opinion. I would actually rule out a paint like Aura for trim partly _because of_ the short open time. You want that paint to flow and smooth out brush marks and form a smooth surface without micro-ridges to catch dirt and grime.

Here's an interesting little article with lots of questions and answers following. You might want to peruse this and with regard to Aura and open time, you might want to search the page for "aura" and read some of the questions and replies.
http://topcoatreview.com/2011/12/waterborne-trim-paints-and-one-trick-ponies/

This one addresses some straight acrylic issues
http://topcoatreview.com/2011/01/waterborne-trim-paints-the-future-is-certain/


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks, JeffNC. I've read the same thing about Aura, but did also see folks who liked and had good luck on trim. Of course, I've seen some of the same complaints about ProClassic latex.

This review of Advance scared me a bit. Application just seems a bit tricky.

http://www.jackpauhl.com/benjamin-moore-advance-review/


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

EasternJ said:


> Thanks, JeffNC. I've read the same thing about Aura, but did also see folks who liked and had good luck on trim. Of course, I've seen some of the same complaints about ProClassic latex.
> 
> This review of Advance scared me a bit. Application just seems a bit tricky.
> 
> http://www.jackpauhl.com/benjamin-moore-advance-review/


 It is a bit tricky. For me it's not so much the open time as it is the cure time. I get nervous when paint takes so long to form a good bond. 
I did a sample cabinet door with Advance over Bin primer the other day. After two days dry time the Advance would still scratch off with a fingernail.. I know from exp that it will eventually bond well, but that long of a cure can be problematic in real world applications. 

Never the less, for what you are needing from a trim paint I think a hybrid or modified paint is the way to go. You would get the added benefit of not having to prime to get a good bond over oil. 

If you stick with a straight latex, consider going up in sheen. Lots of good durable latexes out there, the shinier they are the harder they are (generally) 

I'm interested in SW Solo. Seen a lot of good reviews, but have yet to try it.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

After learning to use it pro classic is still my go to. Just my opinion but to get the best of advance it needs to be sprayed.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

ToolSeeker said:


> After learning to use it pro classic is still my go to. Just my opinion but to get the best of advance it needs to be sprayed.


Same here, Toolseeker. I have never had any callbacks regarding the performance of Proclassic which leads me to believe that it "does what it's supposed to do." Getting ready to do a cabinet job right now and that's what I am using.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

EasternJ said:


> Thanks, JeffNC. I've read the same thing about Aura, but did also see folks who liked and had good luck on trim. Of course, I've seen some of the same complaints about ProClassic latex.
> 
> This review of Advance scared me a bit. Application just seems a bit tricky.
> 
> http://www.jackpauhl.com/benjamin-moore-advance-review/


Oh good, I am not the only one with these problems. We just did a brand new house with miles of trim all done with waterborne alkyd. I am not going to get into what brand it was as they all seem to do it but it was one of the 3 I mentioned in my earlier post. I almost spent more time going back cathing runs and sags than I did actually painting. The problem is the areas around the run that you are trying to blend the run into are already dry. Can you say flash??


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## EasternJ (Aug 30, 2013)

And as to the question of primer. Someone mentioned Zinsser 123 water based and someone else said it should be oil. If I plan to scuff-sand and prime oil trim, is either fine? Of course, either will be better than the non-prime I did before.....


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

on cabinets I have always used zinzzer cover stain and pro classic acrylic . never a problem ,perfect. lately however I have switched to uma stix for the primer and have excellent results.i have re visited a cab job I did 7 years ago with pro classic and it still looks great.over the last few years they have reformulated pro classic and it is a much better paint .


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Zinnsers 123 primer and Satin Impervo waterborne would be my choice, just to confuse you some more. Just pick one and paint, you could have had a couple of them done by now with all the research you have done and the answers supplied here. Get to painting.


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## badsha (Oct 10, 2013)

chrisn said:


> Zinnsers 123 primer and Satin Impervo waterborne would be my choice, just to confuse you some more. Just pick one and paint, you could have had a couple of them done by now with all the research you have done and the answers supplied here. Get to painting.


I have been reading a lot of painting threads for paint types, primers and techniques. Home I purchased was smoked in for 16 years or more. Walls washed with TSP, sanded and primed. House is almost ready for paint.

I am using SW ProClassic for Trim and Cabinets. SuperPaint Flat for Ceilings/Walls. SuperPaint Satin for Kitchen/Bathrooms.

I had originally planned to use Zinsser BIN as my primer, but the contractors refused to use it because it was extremely watery and was told it could not be rolled, only sprayed. I ended up purchasing Killz Max as my primer. 2 coats of primer in highly stained areas.

Now to the main question. Will SW ProClass semi-gloss be good enough for the trims and cabinets? The Trim/Cabinets have been washed with TSP, lightly sanded and primed with Killz Max.

This has been very stressful experience, hoping someone can confirm above is good.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes pro classic will be good but you really need new painters. After using TSP you need to rinse really well, when dry rinse again, and when you think that is enough rinse again.


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## vividpainting (Oct 26, 2013)

BM advance is my favorite cabinet and trim enamel. the look is great and its durable.


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