# Insulated Vinyl Siding vs Regular Vinyl Siding



## DIY828 (Oct 10, 2008)

I live in the northeast and I am re-siding my 1890 home. There is some but very little sprayed insulation in the walls. It is my understanding that the 3/8 foam panel typically installed under vinyl siding provides no real insulative value to your home. One alternative I came across in discussing options with my contractor is insulated vinyl siding. He is planning to instal a 3/8 or 3/4 inch foam panel under the insulated backed vinyl siding. Is there any merit to the manufacturing claims that insulated vinyl siding (i.e. certainteed cedar boards backed with progressive foams fullback) can save you money on energy bills or is this a bunch of koolaid? They claim an R value of 3-5. Is this added R value substanitial enough to make a difference? Impact resistance and linear rigidity are also claims put forth. The cost is substantialy more than an equivalent quality regular vinyl siding.


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## Winchester (Aug 27, 2008)

Not sure if it was considered or called "insulated vinyl siding" or not but a few years back with our previous home (1903 home) I chose to reside the house with a vinyl siding with a contoured insulation that fit the shape of the vinyl siding. This may be the very same thing as you described but with a different product name for which I cannot remember.

Before I had the siding installed, the wife and I filled the wall cavities with blown cellulous. Heating bills dropped considerably after this.

Best of luck to you. :thumbup:


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## jcalvin (Feb 6, 2008)

I think it is a buch of bull hockey. You are better off by hiring someone to blow insulation in your walls. I have seen some vinyl with the insulation made on the back of it and it does seem to make the siding a little more sturdy, but don't let them sell you that and make you think that you are going to save a pile of money in heating costs.


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## Iris313 (Oct 16, 2008)

*Becoming More Unsure About Vinyl*

My husband and I own a very small (1,170 sq ft) older ranch home in California. We've known for some time that we need to install new siding, and gut and replace our kitchen. Vinyl was never on the top of our list, but we got a flyer about some "deals" for insulated vinyl and thought we would get an estimate. The company is reputable, but the sales pitch was worse than any used-car lot experience! I always get suspect whenever the "deal" has to be decided upon "NOW" -- who spends that kind of money without getting several bids... idiots, that's who. I really expected the cost of foam backed vinyl to be quite cheap, and that was its only selling point. What I was quoted was $10 a square foot w/soffits. That seems incredibly high. Online I'm reading that the cost should be between $4-$7, so I was expecting a $10,000 bid for 1,500 square feet, but I got a $15,000 bid with their assurance that "others would charge $25,000." 

My sense is that this bid is way over inflated. Am I right?


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

Iris313 said:


> My husband and I own a very small (1,170 sq ft) older ranch home in California. We've known for some time that we need to install new siding, and gut and replace our kitchen. Vinyl was never on the top of our list, but we got a flyer about some "deals" for insulated vinyl and thought we would get an estimate. The company is reputable, but the sales pitch was worse than any used-car lot experience! I always get suspect whenever the "deal" has to be decided upon "NOW" -- who spends that kind of money without getting several bids... idiots, that's who. I really expected the cost of foam backed vinyl to be quite cheap, and that was its only selling point. What I was quoted was $10 a square foot w/soffits. That seems incredibly high. Online I'm reading that the cost should be between $4-$7, so I was expecting a $10,000 bid for 1,500 square feet, but I got a $15,000 bid with their assurance that "others would charge $25,000."
> 
> My sense is that this bid is way over inflated. Am I right?


Yes it is.

There are lots of scams out there and home repair is no exception.

Never respond to an ad placed on your door or flyers under the matt.

Plus I hate vinyl. Can't paint it so the color is there forever until it fades which it will.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Insulated vinyl siding makes as much sense as insulated venetian blinds that let in the cold air through the gaps.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> Insulated vinyl siding makes as much sense as insulated venetian blinds that let in the cold air through the gaps.


Or how bout an insulated screen door? :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Iris313 (Oct 16, 2008)

*Thanks*

:laughing: Good thoughts - I particularly like the venetian blind analogy! I had not thought about it, but of course if you have to create airspace to let the vinyl flex, that lets in air.. how insulating is that?

I went to a home show over the weekend to speak to a few people about siding. I noticed the only people really trying hard to hustle me were the vinyl siding guys. I did find a couple of owner/installers in my area who do concrete fiberboard. I checked out their licenses, and their Better Business Bureau records and how they are rated online (Angie's list) - they seem to check out - so I think I'll go that way -- and get several estimates and some references.

I used to work for a contractor and he said to me, "anyone who is pushing you that hard is doing so because they don't have any work ... and if they don't have any work, you have to wonder if they're any good at what they do." I think he has a point.

Thanks for your thoughts. :thumbup:


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## Nia (Jul 18, 2008)

Go with regular vinyl and have the insulation installed before. If you have a higher budget I would look at fiber cement siding because its more durable than vinyl. Since the hurricane in Texas, we have been repairing a lot of vinyl siding because the siding blew off of the house or it's dented pretty bad.


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## Iris313 (Oct 16, 2008)

*Whoosh*



Nia said:


> Go with regular vinyl and have the insulation installed before. If you have a higher budget I would look at fiber cement siding because its more durable than vinyl. Since the hurricane in Texas, we have been repairing a lot of vinyl siding because the siding blew off of the house or it's dented pretty bad.


Nia, your point is well taken, and I believe the siding people I have spoken with are aware of the wind issue. Each one has taken pains to say, "OUR siding can withstand 100 mile per hour winds", "no OUR siding will stay on in 200 mile per hour winds!" None of them could tell me how that claim was proven. I watched a time lapse simulation on CNN some time back showing what happens to buildings in winds. It seems unreasonable to imagine that a product 'hanging' on the house like vinyl could possibly be that static, and somehow I am not sure how much good the siding would do me if the house was flattened in high wind. :jester:


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## jcalvin (Feb 6, 2008)

In my area, most of the self proclaimed vinyl siding specialists are wannbe's. Vinyl siding is easy, quick, and can be done with minimal tools. They like it because there is no inspection on siding, in WNC at least, and most homeowners can't tell a good job from a bad job if they had to.


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## swwp (Oct 25, 2008)

*insulated siding*



DIY828 said:


> I live in the northeast and I am re-siding my 1890 home. There is some but very little sprayed insulation in the walls. It is my understanding that the 3/8 foam panel typically installed under vinyl siding provides no real insulative value to your home. One alternative I came across in discussing options with my contractor is insulated vinyl siding. He is planning to instal a 3/8 or 3/4 inch foam panel under the insulated backed vinyl siding. Is there any merit to the manufacturing claims that insulated vinyl siding (i.e. certainteed cedar boards backed with progressive foams fullback) can save you money on energy bills or is this a bunch of koolaid? They claim an R value of 3-5. Is this added R value substanitial enough to make a difference? Impact resistance and linear rigidity are also claims put forth. The cost is substantialy more than an equivalent quality regular vinyl siding.


Yes, Insulated siding really can save you money on your energy cost. There are several insulated siding products on the market today, just be sure to be a smart and savvy consumer and buy on quality, performance and roi.


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## Iris313 (Oct 16, 2008)

swwp said:


> Yes, Insulated siding really can save you money on your energy cost. There are several insulated siding products on the market today, just be sure to be a smart and savvy consumer and buy on quality, performance and roi.


 
Do you have this siding, or do you install it? It does look like a nice product, but I'm not sure how valid the claims are without knowing that someone has actually measured the R Value and/or savings and the stability of the product. :huh:


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## SD515 (Aug 17, 2008)

Energy saving realized from installing insulated siding alone are there, but due to it’s low R value, it usually isn’t highly noticeable. For example, if it saved you $1/month, would you notice it? Probably not, in that energy usage is rarely consistent month to month. Is it truly doing it’s job and saving energy? Yes. But insulated siding works in conjunction with the rest of the wall of the house. If the wall has adequate insulation, is wrapped properly, and air holes are sealed, insulated siding will contribute to the over-all picture. But for it to stand alone and expect it to ‘be the ultimate thing since sliced bread’ is asking too much of it.
Think of it being a lightweight jacket on a cool, fall day. If you don’t wear a shirt underneath, is it going to keep you warm? Probably not adequately, but it keeps the chill directly off your skin. If you wear a shirt or 2 under it, would you be noticeably warmer? Probably, as it contributes to the over-all system.


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## swwp (Oct 25, 2008)

*Insulated Siding*



Iris313 said:


> Do you have this siding, or do you install it? It does look like a nice product, but I'm not sure how valid the claims are without knowing that someone has actually measured the R Value and/or savings and the stability of the product. :huh:


Yes we do have this siding and would be more than happy to provide an in home presentaion and installation procedures. The R Value is measured and tested. We certify the energy savings with a written guaranty. 

Michael


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Why would you try to insulate a ventetion blind? - that is about the closest thing you can get to vinyl siding.

The effective R-value of the siding is fictitious even if it is tested. To be effective the test would have to be done under real applications and not by just using an ASTM (or other) standard in a way that does not represent the real world conditions. Caulking every horizontal joint would minimize the "venetian blind" effect, but that wouls void all guarantees.

The only real benefit might be increased rigidity if you use thin minimal vinyl material. Vinyl siding is just a cheap siding material that must be nailed lighly and hangs on the structure to shed most of the rain.


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## swwp (Oct 25, 2008)

*Insulated siding*

Obviously you are NOT an expert in this field and should really consider conducting a through investigation before posting any comments. 
Insulated siding is a proven product with REAL results. Yes, I would agree that for the most part there is an aweful lot of in your words " cheap vinyl sidng" but this is the fault of the consumer, builders, and so on down the chain. Remember that you can NEVER spend a little and get a lot.....

Eliminator XL 29 Glide-Lock insulated siding offers 30% energy savings guarantee, seamless on most homes and the strongest warranty in the industry. This is a real premium gauge panel that has the features and benefits that NO other siding or we should say exterior cladding product can offer.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

I have served on a number of code committees and bodies and have about 40 years of experience. - This includes running both the "pink" short term "snapshot" static hot box tests run for advertising purposes and the more realistic longer term dynamic tests that do not even include the real exterior effects such as wind and leakage.

I have little time for "paper hangers" that try to sell any sort of real insulating benefits of siding materials. They certainly do nothing for infiltration considering the installation details and requirements and allow for the dramatic movement common.

I do enjoy the income from investigating the mold and moisture problems created by the real world weather conditions. - Usually it only takes 2 to 4 probes with my moisture meter since it must be assumed (and is proven) that loose siding material do not hinder moisture or insulate to any measureable degree in real life or in place test performance. - It is a shame that they advertise to the public without any documentation other than a material property that usually does not perform as installed.

Terms like "30% savings" and guaranteed are really meaningless. #0% of what? and what is a guarantee of strength worth?. By its nature, vinyl will ALWAYS expand and contract or else it will not work and look as good as advertised.

With only 3 posts and no information on your bio and experience it becomes difficult to understand the credibility and the use of the word "obviously" unless it is only obvious to you. - I have over 4,000 posts on some forums.

Dick


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

swwp said:


> Obviously you are NOT an expert in this field and should really consider conducting a through investigation before posting any comments.
> Insulated siding is a proven product with REAL results. Yes, I would agree that for the most part there is an aweful lot of in your words " cheap vinyl sidng" but this is the fault of the consumer, builders, and so on down the chain. Remember that you can NEVER spend a little and get a lot.....
> 
> Eliminator XL 29 Glide-Lock insulated siding offers 30% energy savings guarantee, seamless on most homes and the strongest warranty in the industry. This is a real premium gauge panel that has the features and benefits that NO other siding or we should say exterior cladding product can offer.


Do you also sell used cars? I'm looking for a late model Accord if you can help me.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Dick I have to agree with you. 
I tell my customers when they ask what would the R- Value be from the siding and insulation, My answer is Around R2-R3 that's it.and that's with the sheets installed over the house wrap. My opinion about the insulation molded to the back of the siding, Its a very good backer for the siding giving it some added protection from knocks and impacts. There saying A 30% savings??? some ones smoking crack!!! BOB


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## swwp (Oct 25, 2008)

*insulated siding*



buletbob said:


> Dick I have to agree with you.
> I tell my customers when they ask what would the R- Value be from the siding and insulation, My answer is Around R2-R3 that's it.and that's with the sheets installed over the house wrap. My opinion about the insulation molded to the back of the siding, Its a very good backer for the siding giving it some added protection from knocks and impacts. There saying A 30% savings??? some ones smoking crack!!! BOB


Well Bob and Dick, I am very sorry that you are living in the 80's regarding old technology. The technology today is far more advanced than you are speaking of. I do consultation and real live product training seminars and one on ones for customers who are interested in using these products. If either are you are interested in learning the real facts of insulated siding. The pink, blue and all other XPS insulation products you are referring to are in deed worthless in many ways. NON approved perm ratings, NO warranty, R value decreases over the life of the product and does NOTHING for the consumer. This is a product used by uneducated and subquality contractors. EPS products allow the home to breathe, hold their R-values, lifetime warranty, and much higher real life R-values. The 30% energy savings guarantee is not only tested and confirmed, but real life feedback from the consumers (homeowners) whom have calculations to prove it. 
And in reference to the seams on the siding, most homes remodeled using our siding products are seamless, and if there are any seams they are not at the same location where the insulation joins together. 
There are a lot of smoking mirror products on the market today, this is NOT one of them. I strongly suggest that both of you do more of your homework and learn the facts before broadcasting false information. Do either one of you know that this siding product NOT only offers the 30% energy savings guarantee but is 29 feet in length therefore eliminating most if not all seams. 

Bob, I would be more than happy to meet with you on a day when I am home on the island to discuss this further. 
Our siding products are NONE like any others on the market, seeing is believing !!

Michael


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Michael - Congratulations on getting to 4 posts!!! - Very often, people get banned earlier for blatent advertising what they sell instead of providing constructive assistance.

the last national code/standard I voted on as a professional was 2 months ago.


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

swwp said:


> Well Bob and Dick, I am very sorry that you are living in the 80's regarding old technology. The technology today is far more advanced than you are speaking of.
> I,m Speaking of.? your the one pushing your product, You show a siding job that was done with some other brand, and state it was poorly installed, you show a job where the siding is bowed and came unlocked. then you state this will not happen with your product. ITS NOT THE PRODUCT THAT CAUSED THAT TO HAPPEN ITS THE INSTALL. I don't care how good the product is, it all boils down to the preparation and the install. if there is a significant bow in a house wall your product will take the shape of that bow period!. unless you did something to address this. the biggest down side to the vinyl siding that I personally don't like is its burning characteristic's. If the house was to burn and you had vinyl on the outside you just increased the time that the house will burn to the ground, its like putting gas on a fire. plus all the toxic fumes that it releases into the air,. natural wood or brick siding is what I prefer.


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## swwp (Oct 25, 2008)

You and I should speak more on how you can be a positive enforcement of the siding insulation codes in Minnesota. I know when I first became familiar with this eps product I was somewhat skeptical as well. But as I most always do, I conducted a through investigation into this and became a firm believer. Today the EPS product is the ONLY insulation products we stock and sell. 
Maybe someday we could meet up and you will be able to make a good educated decision on how awesome and beneficial this product truly is. After all you seem to be an educated man, and working with local building codes this will be beneficial in making good decisions regarding insulation products. 
My personal opinion is that if the code enforcement officers became more educated and experts in these areas, they would BAN all other foam board insulation products on side walls. Look up and see how many mold issues we have over the past 15 years or so. Now ask why ??? Because the siding contractors wrapping homes in insulation board that is NON breathable creating mold issues. 
Remember *EPS is breathable* and *XPS is a retarder and or barrier.*


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## louwatters (Aug 5, 2009)

*Trying to find a good contractor*

I'm also planning a re-siding project and I'm looking for a good contractor, I noticed someone mentioned Angies list on the thread, I'm wondering how people's experiences with them has been. I've read some good reviews on angies list but i know there are free alternatives, so is it really worth it?


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

On Angie's list you just may get contractors/salesmen that just do a good enough job to avoid problems. You will definitely get aggressive pricing. You said you are interested in getting a good contractor, so look to friends and neighbors for references with experience dealing with siding contractors.


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