# Contractor butchered my driveway....now what?



## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

More...


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Joint swoops a few inches to left


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)




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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Cracked...look close


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

I agree, the job is bad.
Looks like he used inexperienced finishers.
You won't be satisfied with anything but a tear off and re-do.
The faster it's done the easier it would be.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

Yikes. The person cutting the joint was he drunk? That last crack developed before forms are pulled? Did they moisture cure it or cover it with visqueen, tarp or burlap for a period?


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

dj3 said:


> I agree, the job is bad.
> Looks like he used inexperienced finishers.
> You won't be satisfied with anything but a tear off and re-do.
> The faster it's done the easier it would be.


Thats the feeling I have too. One older guy...few green kids. Im sick to my stomach over this.....but the thing is....can I trust them to tear it out and do it over? I just wanted a nice new driveway for my new Hellcat....As a former contractor, the last thing i want to have to do is tell another guy he did a hack job. This sucks


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

miamicuse said:


> Yikes. The person cutting the joint was he drunk? That last crack developed before forms are pulled? Did they moisture cure it or cover it with visqueen, tarp or burlap for a period?


No...covered with nothing. Wasnt superhot yesterday....but yeah...there shouldnt be cracks day after pour.


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## House Designer (Oct 4, 2019)

Don't pay. Get the contractor to tear out and re-do, but follow these guidelines. Agree to reasonable upcharges where these guidelines exceed his normal practice. And maybe promise a $1000 bonus if the job comes out right this time. You ARE asking him to eat the job as well as the demolition.

*My top five secrets to good concrete driveway work:*

1) Insist on 6-sack mix. 5-1/2 sack mix is marginal, and the cheapskates 
often short you to 5-sack mix which just plain stinks.

2) Tell them that you will verify the slump on arrival and reject the mix if it
doesn't meet required slump. (Tell them this even if you don't actually 
plan on testing it, otherwise the concrete companies tend to send rejected commercial loads to
residential jobs who don't know better).

3) Insist on cut or tooled joints! Lots of them! *Don't leave any piece 
larger than 10' x 10'* or you'll be sorry with stress cracks in a couple of years.

4) INSIST that they spray curing compound to slow the cure down to 
acceptable levels, or your driveway will begin spalling as soon as the warranty is up. You MUST do this regardless of the outside temperature!

5) Insist on welded wire mesh reinforcement; forget fiber-reinforced 
concrete.

In your case, INSIST that the company owner do the final finish! Inspect his last job to make sure that his finishing skills are acceptable!


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## azeotrope (Jun 3, 2015)

That’s ugly. You may want to first ask them how they plan to fix it. If their answer doesn’t include tear out and re pour then you can make your recommendations with that suggestion so they know what your expectations are. A polite conversation should have them seeing what is required to do fix the job. 

Nobody wants to be in your position. It’s not your fault you are there. They are the ones who did the poor quality work and as a result they have put you in this spot. If you let it slide then you lose and they win. If you are not clear on what you expect as a final result then they waste time trying to doctor up this job before having to rip it out and re pour, you eventually win but they lost much more. If they walk without pay then nobody wins. If they rip it out and do it again then you win and they have a chance to break even, but also gain a valuable lesson). That last one seems to be the best option. 

Any experienced eye will be able to see how bad of a job that is (an inexperienced eye should be able to as well from those pictures). I think when you approach the foreman or manager then they will see the issue very quickly.


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

House Designer said:


> 1) Insist on 6-sack mix. 5-1/2 sack mix is marginal,
> _The number of sacks is meaningless, you need to specify psi strength. 3,000 is sufficient for a residential driveway_.
> 
> 2) Tell them that you will verify the slump on arrival and reject the mix if itdoesn't meet required slump.
> ...


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

House Designer said:


> Don't pay. Get the contractor to tear out and re-do, but follow these guidelines. Agree to reasonable upcharges where these guidelines exceed his normal practice. And maybe promise a $1000 bonus if the job comes out right this time. You ARE asking him to eat the job as well as the demolition.
> 
> *My top five secrets to good concrete driveway work:*
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying....exactly how I feel....replacement. They hacked. Sad part is it was owner finishing. He just was the only one who had a clue. Im so upset. I really dont know if I can trust them to do it over. He and his salesman are coming out. I hate to make a guy eat a job too. One time in 25 years I got some warped porcelin tiles and it didnt turn out as flat as I liked. I tore it our and replaced it. It was a matter of pride. I was really hoping to get a good job first time. So glad I have not paid and have all the power. Otherwise I would have been screwed. That was one thing that inspired me...he didnt want any money down. I figured...he must be confident he can pull it off.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

It was 4000psi fibermesh. I did verify the tiny little fibers in it by breaking a small scrap open. Really doesnt matter if they cant even finish the job right though.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

As a contractor you know what to do and how to file a grievance for reparations through the local licensing board.

Your written contract should also contain verbiage regarding arbitration.


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## House Designer (Oct 4, 2019)

5-1/2 sack mix (3000 psi) is the bare minimum for residential driveways. Many pros use 6-sack (3500 psi) or better.

Yes, checking the slump may be overkill. It takes skill and a slump checker to measure it.

Here is a reference that compares sack mix vs. psi strength:








Actual Concrete Mix Ratios For 3000, 3500, 4000, and 4500 psi concrete


These are the actual concrete mix ratios for 3000, 3500, 4000, and 4500 psi concrete that I use to pour concrete floors, patios, pool decks and more. I'll show you the actual concrete batch plant ticket with the cement, sand, and aggregate break downs for the yards we used.




www.everything-about-concrete.com


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Domo said:


> As a contractor you know what to do and how to file a grievance for reparations through the local licensing board.
> 
> Your written contract should also contain verbiage regarding arbitration.


Oh.....I have all the arbitration. He doesnt have a dime from me. Have a concrete buddy coming by to look at it tonight. I should have had him do it in the first place...but I was confused whether he was still in the business or not...I thought he had a different job...but he is back with his dads concrete company. Lesson learned by me. I figured a guy with the balls to not ask for a deposit knew what he was doing.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

laur334 said:


> That’s so crazy!! I would honestly not accept this job, if that was done for me. About a year ago I got my concrete driveway repair job done by my local contractors, and some of the best advice I got from them is always double check your contractors understands the project you envision! So if they you’re looking for perfection they understand anything other than that is not acceptable!


Thanks man. Im all twisted up right now. He is supposed to be coming out later. My buddy pointed out that he didnt do the sidewalk right and my city will never pass it.


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## Ronnie833 (Jan 9, 2021)

Yike, man. I wish you a speedy resolution. One bit of advice: don’t get emotional over this. Just follow the resolution process. If the contractor is not cooperative, then get another one to remove and redo. Take advantage of small claims court if you need to. Just follow the process.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Yeah, they just left about 1/2 hour ago. It got heated. I pointed out the stuff...he was all like "you liked it yesterday" I told him it has to come out. He refused. We yelled. I ran him off.
Let him try and file a lien. I have 2 angles of video of the entire installation. From start to finish. Plus the driveway itself.....sitting here like a turd. It got me wound up. Im a retired hot head...and it came out today.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

That is horrible. I grew up with my dad as a concrete contractor and thought I had seen some bad stuff from others that we replaced, but that is a new low.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Little does old boy know....but I have video of the entire job from three angles...


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

If it cracked right after the issue is more than "finishing".


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## azeotrope (Jun 3, 2015)

Davetheampguy said:


> Yeah, they just left about 1/2 hour ago. It got heated. I pointed out the stuff...he was all like "you liked it yesterday" I told him it has to come out. He refused. We yelled. I ran him off.
> Let him try and file a lien. I have 2 angles of video of the entire installation. From start to finish. Plus the driveway itself.....sitting here like a turd. It got me wound up. Im a retired hot head...and it came out today.


I was going to say you need to at least give them a chance to do it right before getting another contractor out to fix it... but it sounds like they are not willing to do the job right.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

azeotrope said:


> I was going to say you need to at least give them a chance to do it right before getting another contractor out to fix it... but it sounds like they are not willing to do the job right.


More likely, they are not able to do it right.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

rusty baker said:


> More likely, they are not able to do it right.


Exactly. I am glad he said he wont tear it out actually. He was the owner and if he finishes concrete this bad....no way I want him back.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Davetheampguy said:


> Oh.....I have all the arbitration. He doesnt have a dime from me. Have a concrete buddy coming by to look at it tonight. I should have had him do it in the first place...but I was confused whether he was still in the business or not...I thought he had a different job...but he is back with his dads concrete company. Lesson learned by me. I figured a guy with the balls to not ask for a deposit knew what he was doing.


You know we all wish you well. It's always sad to hear of a brother getting beat by trusting someone. Darn it.


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

Davetheampguy said:


> Let him try and file a lien.


He will win in court. The judge will ask if you got a concrete driveway of the shape/layout that you contracted for, and if it is serviceable for a driveway. Unless you have very specific language in your written and signed contract that calls out how it should look, the judge is going to tell you the contractor delivered what was agreed to. You are going to have to prove that the quality is so substandard that it warrants complete removal, and that is for a different court where you are the plaintiff, not the defendant.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Half-fast eddie said:


> He will win in court. The judge will ask if you got a concrete driveway of the shape/layout that you contracted for, and if it is serviceable for a driveway. Unless you have very specific language in your written and signed contract that calls out how it should look, the judge is going to tell you the contractor delivered what was agreed to. You are going to have to prove that the quality is so substandard that it warrants complete removal, and that is for a different court where you are the plaintiff, not the defendant.


Thats funny....I have already talked to my lawyer...he says let him file lien...he has 6 months to sue me...then we destroy him in court with a professional witness and video/pictures.


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## azeotrope (Jun 3, 2015)

Davetheampguy said:


> Thats funny....I have already talked to my lawyer...he says let him file lien...he has 6 months to sue me...then we destroy him in court with a professional witness and video/pictures.


Did you provide any indication that the job was satisfactory before the concrete cured? Sounds like he thinks you were happy with the job while there was a point of return. That could work against you if it is true.


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

azeotrope said:


> Did you d’ovidé


Did you mean to use that word? Never seen it before ...


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

Davetheampguy said:


> Thats funny....I have already talked to my lawyer...he says let him file lien...he has 6 months to sue me...then we destroy him in court with a professional witness and video/pictures.


I would sure like to see a copy of the specs and contract for the slab, with names and dollars blanked out.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Half-fast eddie said:


> I would sure like to see a copy of the specs and contract for the slab, with names and dollars blanked out.


I can assure you...no where on there did it say "install shitty driveway"


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

As long as you have the money, you hold all the cards.


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## azeotrope (Jun 3, 2015)

Half-fast eddie said:


> Did you mean to use that word? Never seen it before ...


Nope, that was supposed to be Provide. Autocorrect comes up with some creative ideas sometimes. I’m not sure where it got that one from.


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## azeotrope (Jun 3, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> More likely, they are not able to do it right.


Possibly not but it is hard to convince a court of that if you pulled the funds and walked away without giving them a chance to fix it.


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## Owen.N56 (Feb 23, 2021)

OMG! Even a non experienced worker can tell that this job is messed up. As a contractor, these are the things that I am most afraid of. That's why I need to make sure that I'm always around and check their job. That's a sad sight to see.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

I agree. Bad case of "can't see it from my house".


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

GrayHair said:


> I agree. Bad case of "can't see it from my house".


Lol....I look...like your avatar....lol.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Davetheampguy said:


> It was 4000psi fibermesh. I did verify the tiny little fibers in it by breaking a small scrap open. Really doesnt matter if they cant even finish the job right though.


I made the mistake of using fiber without wire. Bad call. Especially for a driveway.


Davetheampguy said:


> Yeah, they just left about 1/2 hour ago. It got heated. I pointed out the stuff...he was all like "you liked it yesterday" I told him it has to come out. He refused. We yelled. I ran him off.
> Let him try and file a lien. I have 2 angles of video of the entire installation. From start to finish. Plus the driveway itself.....sitting here like a turd. It got me wound up. Im a retired hot head...and it came out today.


Calm down. You got a shitty job. No one died.
I have the same type of attitude when I get pissed. I have since tried my best to not let it mess me up enough I loose my temper. Its not worth it.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 31, 2021)

Did the original estimate include removal of existing concrete? If that is the case and you did in fact not give him any payment up front then you are back where you started. I don't think I would want this guy doing anything on my property.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

I get it. Trust me...it's healthier for me to vent here, than they way it went yesterday. I literally chased him off my property. lol. I'd be in jail if it was 10 years ago. I'm 51 now and have had three multilevel lumbar fusions in the last 6 years...so Im not as cocky as I used to be. But that temper is always there. I do a damn good job at it, but Im only human. I was pissed. Enraged actually. Now the rage high is gone, the guilty but cunning stage comes. I feel bad for losing my temper....but now its time to get my legal ducks in a row....I get it. There is not one person who has said they would accept it. Kinda what I was looking for at first here. Someone else to say yeah....thats a shitty job.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Yes...estimate was for Removal and replacement 11 yards 4000psi broom finished. Now I am past angry hulk stage I have listened and get what everyone is saying about the material lean etc. I am prepared to face whatever lies ahead, but I refuse to look at this driveway for the next however many years Im alive. Going outside and seeing a new decent driveway will bring a smile to my face....no matter what the cost.


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

Davetheampguy said:


> . I literally chased him off my property. . Enraged actually.


“Your honor, we tried to meet with the homeowner to resolve this, but he became enraged and forced us off the property. We were there to negotiate in good faith, but because of the homeowners actions we felt threatened and feared for our safety. Therefore your honor we petition for immediate payment of 100% of the monies due, and further request a protective order be issued”.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

I have seen too many sloppy shitty jobs and I am afraid I too am in the same camp as the OP, if you can't do it right the first time why would I waste time to do it right the second time or be able to fix it? The operator didn't feel it was substandard work is what's even concerning.

Now if the job turned out to be bad because of situation out of control like a thunderstorm sweeping through and the finish was ruined then some discussions in good faith about a remedy is fine, but a shitty job with no pride of workmanship is unacceptable.

I have had in the past, paid the contractor off in full or negotiate a partial payment satisfactory to both sides just to get them out of there so I can begin the demolition of their work. You already did a shitty job once, why would I go through it again?


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

miamicuse said:


> . You already did a shitty job once, why would I go through it again?


By law you are required to give the contractor the opportunity to correct it.


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## Davetheampguy (May 2, 2021)

Half-fast eddie said:


> By law you are required to give the contractor the opportunity to correct it.


What law is that lawyer Bob?


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

Davetheampguy said:


> What law is that lawyer Bob?


You know what ... your arrogance and attitude are beginning to wear on me. Too bad you aren’t half as smart as you think you are. 

Losing Your Right to Recover: The Risks of Firing a Contractor for Deficient Work - Pushor Mitchell LLP

_The common law imputes an implied condition into all construction contracts that the owner will not prevent a contractor from accessing the worksite. Where an owner denies a contractor access to the worksite, he or she is repudiating the contract, thereby releasing the contractor from any obligations under the contract which would include completing work and repairing deficiencies. 

In other words, by depriving Mr. Jozsa the opportunity to remedy his work, Ms. Sebazco was depriving herself of the right to seek damages for the defective work. Generally, if an owner is dissatisfied with a contractor’s work, the appropriate course of conduct is to document the deficiencies, make a demand for the contractor to address the deficiencies and allow the contractor reasonable and necessary access to make the repairs._


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## Wrenrex (Feb 9, 2021)

I tend to agree with Half-fast. I think you're going to find it difficult to find a contractor that'll want to do the rip out and replacement you desire. Although it might be an unacceptable job in your eyes, I think most contractors will view you as someone that can't be pleased and figure no deal is better than a bad deal.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

In my state, this concrete guy would have ONE CHANCE to make good, IN A TIMELY MANNER.
I can't see him doing that.
Then have it inspected, have a report in hand and if it fails, you have a case.
If the guy sues you, he will not prevail, even if you end up in front of a judge who doesn't know the difference between bad job and good job, but relies on an expert witness in court or by a written opinion. Your lawyer will know what to do.
My guess: He won't try to make it good.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

You many be out the cost of demolition and disposal.


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## Norm202 (Apr 17, 2021)

I agree with HD. The other possible alternative is to sand down the whole driveway and then put a sealer on it. Won't be perfect. You may have a hard time getting him to tare it out and start over. I'm betting taking him to court would be cheaper for him than a re-do. He might be able to drag this out for some time and then maybe going bankrupt and you get nothing.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Half-fast eddie said:


> You know what ... your arrogance and attitude are beginning to wear on me. Too bad you aren’t half as smart as you think you are.
> 
> Losing Your Right to Recover: The Risks of Firing a Contractor for Deficient Work - Pushor Mitchell LLP
> 
> ...


I think the OP is more right than wrong, legally. 

I have not seen the work in total, but for the sake of argument let us assume that the consensus is accurate that the work is very poor. Its hard to "adjust" concrete and OP's position that the only acceptable remedy is tear out and re-do might be found to be reasonable. At that point, does the original contractor have a "right" to be the one who re-does the job ? Probably only if it says so in the contract.

However, I think the conclusion might be different if the contractor could convince the judge that the driveway could be "fixed" with a remedy simpler than ripping it out and starting over.





__





StackPath






www.contractormag.com


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

Nobody should be forced to accept a subpar jobs that don't meet a minimal acceptance levels. 
Why should the OP?


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

SPS-1 said:


> I think the OP is more right than wrong, legally.


The problem is that quality is a subjective thing. The contract was for a concrete driveway ... he got that. I read that he wanted a broom finish ... got that too. Crack control joints ... they are present. So unless he can point out specific faults, he is going to have a difficult time convincing the judge that he deserves a complete re-do. And ... i bet the contract includes an arbitration clause, which is going to really mess with the situation. 

I’m not taking the side of the gc, and i’m not saying the job is completely acceptable. What I am saying is ... it’s a difficult and complicated situation, and just because he is not satisfied doesn’t mean he gets what he wants as a solution. 

Suppose you bought a new car. A week after you take possession the transmission starts acting up. Can you take it back and demand a complete refund, or a new vehicle? No, the dealer has the opportunity to correct it.


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## Tom153 (Nov 10, 2016)

Don't reward the contractor for poor work. You are the owner, so you are king! If your not satisfied, don't pay. If he puts a lien on your home, sue him in small claims court. Get a second professional concrete finisher to look at and evaluate the finished job. Should be no cracks during cure. A crack during cure...probably substandard concrete. I once had a contractor, who refused a truckload of concrete because the driver was late, and the concrete was starting to "chunk up", meaning it was starting to cure. The driver was furious, but the concrete if used would have been substandard, and probably not allow enough time to place and finish. I agree, with the 6 sac cement per yd concrete, is best for drives and walks, so you get a good seal coat on top. The other main concern is the slab/walk flat? Some of those visual defects will not be seen after the concrete is fully cured, but wave joints will be there forever, and you will see them every day, regardless of what neighbors see/think. It looks to me like the concrete was too wet (low slump) and a hurried finish job, and /or over finished, pulling too much moisture to the top.


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## turbo4 (Jan 30, 2021)

I wouldnt be surprised if a judge would make both parties take a partial bath,as in granting the homeowner a big discount on the cost. Cant see either side getting the whole enchilada. Yea it has flaws, but it is a new driveway even if it is from the scratch and dent sale. Guess it depends on what kind of mood the judge is in. See if you can get an appraisal for a redo and explain the situation ,if not that tells you something. With any luck you will never hear from him again to collect for it ,and if you cant live with it, get a redo. I made the mistake once of offering the trowlers a beer before they were done with my garage floor. Looks kind of like these pictures .


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