# Plagued by drywall hitchhikers



## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

How old is the mud? Are you potentially mixing in dried bits when you mix in the water?


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

DT.... Even on small jobs, I buy the bucket.. and not the box that is in a a plastic bag.

When you are not finishing the entire bucket, I carefully use a sponge and clean off any crap on the side where I might not have scooped the mud carefully....(no prayer of doing that with a plastic bag.)

If I do get crap in the mud and can't remove it, don't screw around and just clean the pan.

You have to keep mud clean... on final coats.


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Also there isn't any need to put more mud in your pan than you can use before it starts to dry out. Always keep the lid on the bucket! scrape the sides of the bucket as you get more mud. A piece of trash or two can be picked up with the edge of your knife and thrown out but if there is too much - well mud isn't that expensive.


Back when I lived where they sold boxes of mud we always transferred it to a 5 gallon bucket after we opened the box/bag.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

mark sr said:


> Also there isn't any need to put more mud in your pan than you can use before it starts to dry out. Always keep the lid on the bucket! scrape the sides of the bucket as you get more mud. A piece of trash or two can be picked up with the edge of your knife and thrown out but if there is too much - well mud isn't that expensive.
> 
> 
> *Back when I lived where they sold boxes of mud we always transferred it to a 5 gallon bucket after we opened the box/bag*.


Geeze Mark.... Sometimes I amaze myself in how dumb I can be.... 

it's not like I don't have a mess of clean buckets around.... never thought of that when I just need a little mud in the box form.

(However, If I need very little... I just use a setting mud.)


----------



## dtbingle (Jul 19, 2017)

This is a "brand new" 5 gal bucket, however, who knows how long it's been sitting on the HD shelf haha.

Took a look at the sides of the bucket and think I may be getting some hard bits in when mixing. Will have to scrape the sides or sponge it off after scooping.

How often do you clean the pan/knife off? For example, if you fill it up, slap it on the wall in 10-15 minutes, do you sponge off your pan/knife to prevent dried up bits from getting into good mud before refilling?


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I can't believe your mud is drying out that quickly..... if I go away for an errand or take a break, I will throw a wet towel over my pan..... but after several hours or a long break if something is getting dry, I'll wash the pan....

I keep the Blades clean with a bucket of water nearby, and often wipping them off or splashing in the water.....

If you drop mud.... don't pick it up


----------



## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

What are you mixing up the bucket with. Sometimes the mixing paddle will strip bits of plastic off in the bucket.

When I put a pan down for over a few minutes, I just set it upside down on a clean piece of drywall. Keep your knives clean. As you refill your pan full of mud, scrape the bucket sides down with a 6" knife. When you walk away for break, wet brush the sides down. When you leave for the day, wipe it down and cover the mud with water.
While you are working, keep the mud lightly covered with a piece of drywall, or something.
Box mud always has a little bit of dry stuff in it. I've never had that little bit of mud cause trouble in 30 years of slick finishing. That being said, I always check my mud for lumps while I'm drilling up bucket. 

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## dtbingle (Jul 19, 2017)

t.carpenter00 said:


> What are you mixing up the bucket with. Sometimes the mixing paddle will strip bits of plastic off in the bucket.
> 
> When I put a pan down for over a few minutes, I just set it upside down on a clean piece of drywall. Keep your knives clean. As you refill your pan full of mud, scrape the bucket sides down with a 6" knife. When you walk away for break, wet brush the sides down. When you leave for the day, wipe it down and cover the mud with water.
> While you are working, keep the mud lightly covered with a piece of drywall, or something.
> ...


I use one of these for mixing. Now that you mention it, I wonder if my little strips of what look paper (maybe a 1/16" wide and 1" long) are actually strips from inside of the bucket. It was baffling to find these strips in a brand new 5 gal mud bucket after mixing and during the first pan fill. Your explanation could be why haha.

I'll try to take a picture today of the top edges of the pan after 15 minutes. But yeah, where the mud is thin near the top edges and any boogers that made it over the edge and are clinging to the outside dry out super quick and then crumble. Just to clarify, I'm not working in an oven either haha. This is in the garage. It's winter so low humidity and keep it heated at 60ºF. When mixing the bucket, I usually get it a little thicker than pancake batter consistency. Could playing with the mud too much in the pan cause it to dry out on the edges? After noticing the crumbling hard bits along the top edges, I've been trying to constantly scraping the inside/outside to keep it clean. Maybe this is causing my own problem?


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> After noticing the crumbling hard bits along the top edges, I've been trying to constantly scraping the inside/outside to keep it clean. Maybe this is causing my own problem?



As long as the mud is still wet that shouldn't be an issue but if it's starting to dry what you scrape off should be discarded.


----------



## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Agree with the above only thing different is I use a drywall hawk to handle my mud instead of a pan. It gives me 4 edges to make it easy to keep my blade clean and if I pick up some debris I wipe that mud on one of the sides and avoid using it. The hawk doesn't hold as much mud as the pan so I refill often, discarding any bad mud and cleaning the hawk with just the knife. Only time I head to the water is when I'm going to stop and then clean blade and inside the bucket. Buckets often come with a piece of paper.plastic on top and I smooth out the mud on top and replace the paper which I kept folded so it would not dry out. 

To keep your mud clean you have to be a bit obsessive but you are seeing the penalty. Although your issue could well be the mixing paddle. I use a round one.

PS, did I hear sanding? To be avoided.

Bud


----------



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Sounds like you are mixing too thin. Anything close to pancake batter is too thin. You should be able to put some mud on your knife, then turn it upside down and have it stay on the knife. If your mud slides off as you turn side ways, its too thin.


I don't usually thin at all on the tape coat, or first coat. Finishing coats maybe a little, but also switch to purple lid.


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I almost always thin my mud slightly as it flows better that way but I agree you do not want to over thin the mud!


----------



## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Some guys get the idea that tape mud has to be thick for it to be strong. That's totally not the case. Then your mud down considerably and it will flow into the cracks and hold better. Professional tapers tape with very thin mud. As far as your Krusteaz, you had to make me think about how I work with my pan and knife throughout the day. Finishers knives are constantly moving. If they're not wiping down than smoothing up, and burning edges with their knife, it's working on the mud in the pan.

So when you finish a spot you're working on and you have mud all over or on the end of your knife you should be wiping it against the edge of the pan so that it falls into the pan. You should do that to both sides and keep the mud from building up on the knife. That way, your joints will smooth out better you will not get as much Rippling effect, and your knife will stay clean. In the process of doing that, you'll be constantly wiping your knife against the edge of your pan and constantly recycling New Mud along that edge.
I think, that if you practice keeping your knife clean by wiping it back and forth along the edge of your pan I think you're Krusteaz problem will take care of itself dot-dot. Where'd you go you son

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## dtbingle (Jul 19, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> Agree with the above only thing different is I use a drywall hawk to handle my mud instead of a pan.
> PS, did I hear sanding? To be avoided.
> Bud


Do you use hawk exclusively? It does seem like it could be a good option for me. When the mud in the pan gets gooped up, it's a bit of a pain to clean the inside corners. Usually sponge out the inside faces, then use a cheap paint brush for the corners. The hawk's flat surface seems like a quick wipe of the sponge and it's clean.

Oh and sanding. Yes, lots and lots of sanding, unfortunately. It looks like the garage had a few inches of snow come down. I've only drywalled & mudded before doing the 20x20 garage, and this time around is after ripping out a section in the garage to do some electrical and install a house-to-garage door. My novice'ness combined with having to work around previously installed fixtures = way too much mud in areas haha.




Yodaman said:


> Sounds like you are mixing too thin. Anything close to pancake batter is too thin. You should be able to put some mud on your knife, then turn it upside down and have it stay on the knife. If your mud slides off as you turn side ways, its too thin.





mark sr said:


> I almost always thin my mud slightly as it flows better that way but I agree you do not want to over thin the mud!


When taking a scoop of mud on the knife and flipping it over, it slowly slides off. I'll have to try with it being a little thicker.




t.carpenter00 said:


> Some guys get the idea that tape mud has to be thick for it to be strong. That's totally not the case. Then your mud down considerably and it will flow into the cracks and hold better. Professional tapers tape with very thin mud. As far as your Krusteaz, you had to make me think about how I work with my pan and knife throughout the day. Finishers knives are constantly moving. If they're not wiping down than smoothing up, and burning edges with their knife, it's working on the mud in the pan.
> 
> So when you finish a spot you're working on and you have mud all over or on the end of your knife you should be wiping it against the edge of the pan so that it falls into the pan. You should do that to both sides and keep the mud from building up on the knife. That way, your joints will smooth out better you will not get as much Rippling effect, and your knife will stay clean. In the process of doing that, you'll be constantly wiping your knife against the edge of your pan and constantly recycling New Mud along that edge.
> I think, that if you practice keeping your knife clean by wiping it back and forth along the edge of your pan I think you're Krusteaz problem will take care of itself dot-dot. Where'd you go you son


This makes sense, I'll have to pay more attention on how well my knife is being cleaned each wipe against the edge of the pan. Sometimes I'll scrape the vertical edges of the mud pan and kind of slap it against the top edge so that the mud goes into a pile in the middle. Is this ever done or should you really only wipe the knife off against the top edge of the pan?


----------



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

It is definitely a continual chore keeping the mud clean and your tools clean when you are finish coating. Flinging mud from your knife into middle of your pan probably isn't good idea. Scrape off at the edges, then pull new from center. 

Regarding hawk or pan, I prefer the hawk but it does have one minor flaw, and that is its not always convenient to set it down. For that reason, I use a pan for tape coat, but use the hawk for all others.


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I always use a mud pan, mainly because that is how I learned. Also since I do more patch work than any other drywall work, a pan is handy because you can mix the mud right in the pan.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Finishing drywall has never been one of my stronger points, I almost always subbed it out. One crew I used would add a few drops of Dawn dishwashing liquid to their bucket of mud. What did that accomplish?


----------



## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Dawn soap, or lemon joy... Makes the mud slicker. It works with masonry as well. Youused to be able to smell it in the house, once I got done finishing. 

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

I do all my finish work with a pan. If I have to complely skim out a wall or ceiling, I use a hawk/ trowell. 

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

Of course keep the mud clean. Other thoughts include; Working the mud too long in one place? Raised corner on the knife? Edge of knife not straight so there is more pressure at the edge?


----------



## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

First, mud is cheap. I'm always amazed at how far people will do to try to skimp on the amount of mud used, or on buying a new bucket. Especially small jobs where someone spent $6 on a small bucket. Buy a new bucket, end of story.


Always mix a new bucket when you get it for proper smoothness and consistency. I usually add a little water (maybe 1/4 or 1/2 cup) and a half capful of bleach if I'm going to be keeping the bucket for quite awhile (keeps mold away). This does require a mixing drill, but hey - this is the cost of doing work yourself rather than hiring the pros. You can get by without it if necessary. The first thing I do is scrape out anything on the upper sides of a new bucket if there's anything crusty there, then at least mix some of the top by hand.

Keep everything very clean when mudding. This means keep your used mud separate from your new. Every time you scrape something off the ceiling, it goes straight into the garbage can. When you're done for the session, smooth out the top of the mud in the bucket, and clean the sides with a sponge. This ensures you're only using fresh, virgin compound with no dried nuggets.


----------

