# Insulating attic and attic room



## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

This will be a little hard to explain because English isn't my first language. But here it is anyway. 

Have attic trusses. Attic room will be used as an office. I plan on blowing in either fiberglass or cellulose to the left and right of the "attic room" which I guess is the attic. That will have at least R-49.

The truss system has a 2x6 beneath the "attic room" (between room and house) and also 2x6 for the wall between "attic room" and roof. It has a triangle shaped space between attic room and ridge.

What's the proper way to I sulfate these trusses if my priority is the main house but also I'd like the attic room to be nice and cozy (can have a wall heater just in case, but no cooling besides a window). Do I need a vapor barrier between attic room and attic?


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)




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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

My concern is that 1 and 2 don't add up to code (R-48) if I insulate with Batts and also the baffle vents will take some space because Im assuming you need to use baffle vents for area #1?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You have storage room trusses instead of bonus room. 
So you have some framing to do. With either you need solid block under the edge of the floor to air seal from insulated to non insulated space. And support the edge of the floor. 
Then the nee walls, 2x4s are not deep enough for insulation so the easy fix there is to build a 2x3 wall in front with the studs lined up. 
If not that wall and you want just to drywall the studs as is, then you need another block at the bottom for the bottom of the drywall and to air seal the gap between drywall and floor.
The sloped part of the roof should have either 2x3 or 2x4 added to the bottom so you get a better depth of insulation.


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

Nealtw, can you provide pictures of what you mean? I'm a little lost. What do you mean by solid block and where exactly is under the edge of the floor. What do you mean by support the edge of the floor? 

Build 2x3 on the bonus room side or the attic side? Will these serve as walls (R-21) or do I need to super insulate them (R-38)? How do I aor seal them?

If I add 2x4 to the 2x6 of the sloped part, does this act as a ceiling for house insulation purposes? Should I try and get this area to an R38 at least? I can always add rigid board insulation if needed.

Top part of truss is 7ft 4 inches so I have some room to play with.

Tyvm for everything you do for this community, @Nealtw


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> Nealtw, can you provide pictures of what you mean? I'm a little lost. What do you mean by solid block and where exactly is under the edge of the floor. What do you mean by support the edge of the floor?
> 
> Build 2x3 on the bonus room side or the attic side? Will these serve as walls (R-21) or do I need to super insulate them (R-38)? How do I aor seal them?
> 
> ...


 
Pictures came up in the wrong order. 


Picture 2 shows joist material between the truss under the edge of the floor. This seals off warm air under the floor from the attic space. 


Picture 3 shows 2x6 blocking at the bottom of the wall Half below the floor and nailed tightly to the 1st set of blocks, this stops all air leaks between attic and room. See also they have added to the rafter slope.
Picture 4 is a new wall built in front of the upright to give more depth to the wall. 
Picture 1, insulated door into nee space 22 x 28 


Your house as been built with 2x6 for the insulation value doing less in the attic does not make sense that is where the heat wants to go and loosing to the attic does not help the attic .


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Or something like this


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Converting a storage area to any kind of living space will need approval of your local building department. Even if you call it "office space" future owners may use it as a bedroom, for which it has more requirements. Access stairs, insulation, egress, headroom, electrical, and whatever else they need all need to be determined in advance and approved. Obviously this space was not designed to meet those needs.

Permits first.

Bud


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

Man, @Nealtw, you know your stuff!!! Thanks for the excellent video and pictures! I think I know what to do and why to do it, but final questions.

On the video, at 28 seconds, they show a white strip before doing the blocking. What kind of caulk is this they're using? I'm guessing they also nail it to the trusses?

Also, what is the material they use at 45 seconds? Ridgid foam board?

At 51 seconds they use baffle vents. Would I put batt insulation over the baffle vents? If I beef up this wall (upright as you call it) from a 2x6 to a 2x10 (by adding a 2x4) then it seems right that I would insulate it with Batts. I'm not sure if this is what they're doing at 56 seconds. Can you please confirm if those are Batts they're doing at 56 seconds in the video?

What is the white block they use at 1:03 in the video on the top of the room? What is the best material to use here? What kind of R value should I be aiming to get in this area? I need to keep the ridge vent open for air flow so I can't just pack it tight with blown in.

At 1:08 I assume this is drywall?

Thanks again!!!!


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

It can't be a bedroom by definition. But thanks for your concern. I'm trying to have a storage area where I can walk in and don't want it to be the weak point in my home's insulation.


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

Oh, and @Nealtw I forgot to ask, do I need to insulate beneath the "floor" of the bonus room between the bonus room and living space? The truss is a 2x6 in that area so I can put R21 if it's necessary but km guessing it's not?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

So I can assume you haven't talked to your building officials or applied for any permits. Insurance companies now ask if improvements were permitted, inspected, and who did the work. 

Good luck


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

@Bud9051 not sure if it's evident from the pictures, but this is a new construction. I have applied for all permits and the trusses were engineered, stamped. and approved by the county. That's why I didn't quite understand your first post. You can call this room a storage room, bonus room, office. Don't think it changes the fact that I want my home to be as well insulated as it can be. And when the trusses got here and I was going over my insulating strategy, I could see a couple of weak points with these trusses. That's all my friend.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I doubt the initial approval included insulation and drywall, which makes this space look like living space. Just went through this a year ago, albeit my local inspectors, but THEY are the ones who make the determination.

It is a new world we live in and when I help someone shop for a house one of my first stops is the associated building department to make sure the house matches what they have on file and all permits and inspections were done. Being new construction those inspections are yet to come, which is good, as long as you build it to match the approved plans.

My comments and this discussion will be read by hundreds and it is important that they see everything being done as it should be. 

To give you a positive note, insulating slopes may have an allowance based upon area that will reduce the required insulation. But again, that is up to local authorities and what codes they have selected to follow.

I won't bug you anymore.

Bud


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> Man, @*Nealtw*, you know your stuff!!! Thanks for the excellent video and pictures! I think I know what to do and why to do it, but final questions.
> 
> On the video, at 28 seconds, they show a white strip before doing the blocking. What kind of caulk is this they're using? I'm guessing they also nail it to the trusses?
> 
> ...


 The first set of blocks the go in, we do that before we do the plywood so that white stuff would be floor glue .
To me I think the video is showing foam board but most often that is one kind of bat or outer. And loose fill behind the nee walls 
BTW the access doors go higher than the floor area like about 8". 
The air chutes or baffles would go against the roof deck above the slopes area as well as out to the soffit.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> So I can assume you haven't talked to your building officials or applied for any permits. Insurance companies now ask if improvements were permitted, inspected, and who did the work.
> 
> Good luck


 This is a whole house new construction.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Neal, I understand that, but I don't believe the attic area was designed to be an office space with insulation, electrical, et al.

Finishing that space as described would have been so easy if the trusses were designed with that intention. Unfortunate, but he is free to do as he wishes.

Bud


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

The cost of the trusses was $2400 delivered with 2 hours of crane time. My framer charged a flat fee to do everything I wanted to do. Extra lumber for what Neal suggested might be $100 at most.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> Neal, I understand that, but I don't believe the attic area was designed to be an office space with insulation, electrical, et al.
> 
> Finishing that space as described would have been so easy if the trusses were designed with that intention. Unfortunate, but he is free to do as he wishes.
> 
> Bud


 It is done like that all the time. If he wasn't heating the space he would have had to raise the floor for more insulation below it. Just consider it warm storage.


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> It is done like that all the time. If he wasn't heating the space he would have had to raise the floor for more insulation below it. Just consider it warm storage.


Hey @Nealtw, I guess I should put a wall heater in there? Or should I get the hvac people to put a vent up there? Not sure I want to waste a whole vent and the btu's that go with it on this space as I won't be up there all the time. 

Also, should I put some bats below storage room, in the 2x6 area of the trusses? I mean just below the storage room floor.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> Hey @*Nealtw*, I guess I should put a wall heater in there? Or should I get the hvac people to put a vent up there? Not sure I want to waste a whole vent and the btu's that go with it on this space as I won't be up there all the time.
> 
> Also, should I put some bats below storage room, in the 2x6 area of the trusses? I mean just below the storage room floor.


 I may want some heat up there if you use it for an office but I would insulate the floor if you are insulating around the out side.


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

@Nealtw I met with an insulation specialist today and he said that I didn’t need to do anything to knee walls because I can just staple r38 batts to the 2x4 knee walls (faced side facing the room) and they would hold in place. I already built the angled part of the room further by nailing an extra 2x4 on each side of the truss. I’ll take pics tomorrow. 

Do you agree with his assessment?
Before









After


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That will work with paper face. we don't use the paper faced here so we have to make the wall deepper and add a few straps behind them to hold them up.


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

He said we normally don’t use paper faced here either, but in this case they would just to hold it in place.

Why don’t you guys use it? Is it bad? I might just ask framer to build behind the wall, then, if it’s a bad thing to use faced @Nealtw.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> He said we normally don’t use paper faced here either, but in this case they would just to hold it in place.
> 
> Why don’t you guys use it? Is it bad? I might just ask framer to build behind the wall, then, if it’s a bad thing to use faced @*Nealtw*.


 We do a complete seal with a vapour barrier.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

The builder is doing the attic room on Monday so I want to make sure he does what I need. I have a few questions @Nealtw.
do you have anything against paper faced insulation? Wouldn’t paper face insulation be cheaper than framing extra material for the knee wall? Will something bad happen with paper face against drywall in this scenario?

Regarding the video you linked on page 1 of this thread, what’s the puropse of the piece of lumber they use between 0.18-0.25 secs?

Thanks neal


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> The builder is doing the attic room on Monday so I want to make sure he does what I need. I have a few questions @*Nealtw*.
> do you have anything against paper faced insulation? Wouldn’t paper face insulation be cheaper than framing extra material for the knee wall? Will something bad happen with paper face against drywall in this scenario?
> 
> Regarding the video you linked on page 1 of this thread, what’s the puropse of the piece of lumber they use between 0.18-0.25 secs?
> ...


 I don't see a problem with the paper there. 
The roll of poly in the video??


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

No, the other video you posted with step by step instructions. Page 1 of this thread.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Richard Pryor said:


> No, the other video you posted with step by step instructions. Page 1 of this thread.


 Drywall backing at the top of the wall. Top plate.


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