# use Tyvek/Typar inside of the house (insulation cover)



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Quincy--I'm not sure if that is safe or good practice----we have several members with good knowledge of insulation---I am going to add to your title to attract their attention---Mike----


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi Mike,
Appreciated for the add to the title.
What do you have in mind in term of "safe" and "good practice"?

Quincy


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

just how heated is the basement ?

mine is not directly heated = no vents. but it does not get colder than upper 40's down there.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

quincy said:


> Hi all,
> I locate in Ontario, Canada
> My furnace locates in the unfinished basement, no intention to finish it. Living room with tv above the furnace and water heater on the first floor.
> Thinking of install Roxul safe and sound insulation in the basement ceiling to cut down noise.
> ...


What noise is it you're seeking to reduce? 

Because if it's just voice the sound insulation will help. But if you're looking to reduce lower frequency noises like people walking or the bass from music then you'll need more than just insulation. Noise like that travels through the building materials. To stop them you need to decouple the layers between the floors. This is most commonly done by using decoupling materials like clips or sound-absorbing glues.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

quincy said:


> Hi all,
> I locate in Ontario, Canada
> My furnace locates in the unfinished basement, no intention to finish it. Living room with tv above the furnace and water heater on the first floor.
> Thinking of install Roxul safe and sound insulation in the basement ceiling to cut down noise.
> ...


That has to be against code, although don't ask me the details of that...gas or oil furnace+plastic membrane = IMO a no-no


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

According to Roxul's website you should not use a _moisture _barrier under it. They mention other techniques:


> Install ComfortBatt™ insulation to fit snugly between floor and underside of floor joists. Hold batts in place using any of:
> 
> Wire mesh
> Strapping
> ...


Now, tyvek generally isn't really a moisture barrier, per se.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Tyvek is 58 perms open, far from a moisture barrier/retarder. It lets water vapor through, but not air- if sealed at laps, etc. Did you air seal all wiring/plumbing holes in the floor decking- under tub, etc.? I have suggested housewrap in attics and crawls when no flame producing HVAC is present (for 3 years here), as ccarlisle correctly pointed out.

Gary


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies so far.
The noise I try to reduce is sound noise of the furnace and water heater.
The basement temperature, would say around 60*F - 65*F.
The purpose of using Tyvek/Typar is to hold the insulation in place and keep the insulation fiber from falling down, Tyvek/Typar will be staple to the bottom of the joints, will have about 1" gap to the main duct and about 6" gap to the furnace main trunk.
So, what do you think, yay or nay?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Just use the batt insulation with the kraft paper front and staple it to the joists.


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

ToolSeeker said:


> Just use the batt insulation with the kraft paper front and staple it to the joists.


Roxul safe & sound doesn't come with kraft paper, I don't think.
So, kraft paper need to purchase then.

Reason I mention Tyvek/Typar, I have a roll of Typar.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Check locally with AHJ, I really doubt you can be fire-safe leaving asphalt craft paper (vapor retarder) or housewrap (vapor open) exposed in a space with combustion source. The paper facing would be on the wrong side of ceiling anyway... in Canada.

Gary


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

Been a good discussion, thank-you all.
We are going to live with the noise for now, some day, will install the insulation and cover with dry wall, I guess it is the best way.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

But is the unit really that loud? Or is more of the noise coming from the air ducts? Because if it's an airflow noise then the joist insulation isn't likely to make a lot of difference. But if it's the blower motor itself it might help. If you've got radiator heat and it's noise from a circulator pump then you'd want to find better ways to isolate that instead of insulation.


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi wkearney99,

Noise of both, air flow and blower motor noises, seeking reduce voice type noise.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Ok, so muffling the floor may not help the air flow sound. That's possibly something that's resonating in the duct work itself. But reducing the noise of the air handler itself is likely something that would be helped with insulation. 

If you're not all that worried about looks, given it's an unfinished basement, then why not just hang sheets of drywall without finishing them? Much like you'd see in a garage. The drywall is relatively cheap and you could always pay someone else to come back to mud and tape it later (or not). That'd give out a bit better sound deadening and hold the insulation at the same time. Otherwise, just using some wire strung along under the joists is probably the least amount of trouble.


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## quincy (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi wkearney99,
Bringing dry-wall down to the basement is the issue, unless cut them down in smaller pieces.
String will work to hold the insulation up, but afraid the fiber will fall down to stuffs on the basement floor.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Roxul's pretty dense, it's nowhere near as loose as fiberglass or some of the other kinds of sound insulation. 

I'm unclear on whether tyvek and/or typar would a moisture barrier in this particular situation. I believe there are some other papers that could be used. But I don't recall what they're known as.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

quincy said:


> Been a good discussion, thank-you all.
> We are going to live with the noise for now, some day, will install the insulation and cover with dry wall, I guess it is the best way.


:thumbsup:

...or, put up the Roxul for now and live with whatever dust falls down. No big deal there as it's pretty fibrous anyway. That way you'll get noise reduction + a good fire rating. That'll keep your insurance guy happy!


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## oberkc (Dec 3, 2009)

> I'm unclear on whether tyvek and/or typar would a moisture barrier in this particular situation.


Like Gary in WA, I understood tyvek to be able to resist water (liquid) but DOES allow water vapor and air through, allowing the underlying structure to breath. Given this, I did not believe it would be considered a moisture or vapor barrier like a plastic (polyethylene?) membrane in this, or any other, situation. I understand the purpose of tyvek is primarily on the exterior of the structure, purely as a secondary water (liquid) barrier.

Given this, I suspect it would work well to hold the insulation up, and would not trap moisture. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with other considerations such as fire or sound.

I can tell you that tyvek jackets work really well. They keep you dry in the rain, yet don't trap a lot of moisture inside (such as would happen with a plastic rain coat).


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

oberkc said:


> Like Gary in WA, I understood tyvek to be able to resist water (liquid) but DOES allow water vapor and air through, allowing the underlying structure to breath. Given this, I did not believe it would be considered a moisture or vapor barrier like a plastic (polyethylene?) membrane in this, or any other, situation. I understand the purpose of tyvek is primarily on the exterior of the structure, purely as a secondary water (liquid) barrier.
> 
> Given this, I suspect it would work well to hold the insulation up, and would not trap moisture. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with other considerations such as fire or sound.
> 
> I can tell you that tyvek jackets work really well. They keep you dry in the rain, yet don't trap a lot of moisture inside (such as would happen with a plastic rain coat).


 
:whistling2:

See post #11...he has Typar.


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## oberkc (Dec 3, 2009)

> See post #11...he has Typar.


 :whistling2:

Yes, he has typar, but was asking about both.

Besides, I was simply responding to post 18, which appeared to question whether tyvek/typar was considered a moisture barrier.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Dupont's Tyvek is polyethylene, Typar is polypropylene, both have similar air and vapour transmission characteristics as exterior housewraps but, either way, _moisture_ is not the issue in an interior furnace room - flammability is, for the same reasons you don't leave insulation exposed where there is a combustion source. 

And if this guy is in Ontario, that furnace is going to be getting hot.


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