# Deck Building Project Pictures (and Some Questions)



## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

I'll use this tread to post some pictures of the deck I'm building as it has progressed over the last few weekends. Here are some pictures showing the ledger board attached to the house. We used 3/8" carriage bolts at 16" OC. I had to attach the left outside joist to the ledger board before mounting to the wall because it was situated on an inside corner. 

Here are the pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the holes. I posted a thread on this forum about some _issues_ I had using the power auger. Basically, we ended up digging most of the holes manually and I was pleasantly surprised by how much easier it was than using the power auger. 

I used strings laid out on the ground to help center the holes and keep them in line. As you can see from the pictures, there are going to be two beams running parallel to the house. Two of the posts supporting the beam closed to the house will be mounted to the existing slab.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

The next step was to backfill the holes, remove all the extra dirt, and pour the concrete. I borrowed a power mixer from a friend, which made it a lot easier. I still ended up shoveling the concrete out of the mixer though because I couldn't get it to pour properly into the holes. I tried to keep it as dry as possible. 

I used j-bolts sunken into the wet concrete. I then used a plumb bob to make sure the j-bolt was centered on the foundation.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Next, I attached the post anchors to the j-bolts and mounted the posts. To align the post anchors along where the beams will run, I used a laser level that projects a straight line. I situated the laser level on top of the outside joist and shot a line down the center of foundations. I then measured the center of each post anchor and situated it so that the line from the laser level intersected the center of each post anchor. It worked pretty well.


Edit: In the third picture, you can see the foundation that will support the 6x6. I'm using a 6x6 here because I'll have two beams intersecting at a 45 degree angle. Directly above this location will be where the stairs come down.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Finally, I cut the posts to the proper hight and installed the beams. I finished the beam closest to the house. On the outside beam, I needed to get a 6x6 before I could finish the beam so I cut some of the boards to length but I didn't finish assembling the beam. 

This weekend I plan on installing the 6x6 post and finishing the outside beam. Then I'll cut the last post and install the last beam, which will be situated at a 45 degree angle to the outside beam. Once that's done I'll start installing the joists. 

It's nice to be far enough along to where you can actually begin to see the deck take shape. I'll post more pictures when I finish the beams and begin installing the joists. 

Edit: The last picture looks strange because it got screwed up during the batch resize. It was originally a portrait-oriented picture but was converted to a landscape format, which I guess distorted it.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Here's my question: 

In some spots, the beam closest to the house is a tad bit (1/6" to 1/8") too high. Can I just use a belt sander and take a little off the top of the beam? I'm worried because I'm using pressure treated wood and I don't want to screw up the pressure treatment but it will only be 1/8" at the most so I don't think it will cause a problem. What does everyone think? If I shouldn't sand, what should I do?? Thanks,

Kevin


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Nice pictures showing your project's progress! Looks good so far.

You could sand the high spot of the beam if you need to. People say don't sand treated treated lumber, but I say pooey. Don't eat the dust or the chips and you won't suffer any ill effects. The material is treated to retention, so it goes down through the thickness of the wood. It won't hurt it to knock an edge off. 

A hand plane would work well for this if you have one. Another option would be to mark your joist layout on the beam and just use a chisel to remove 1/8" off the top only where you need to.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

It looks well planned and laid out. However, I have a couple of initial observations & concerns:

1.) You have a post near the corner of the house attached to the concrete pad. How thick is that pad? If it is not the required thickness for a pier footing in your region, then you would need to add one under it (cut out a 12" x 12" square of the pad, dig down, add sono tub, etc, etc...)
2.) FWIW: You actually could have gotten away with a single row of pier footings and a cantilevered deck frame.
3.) Pre-Attached Joist Hangers: We usually attach the joists first, then add the joist hangers after. The reason is because not every pressure treated joists is going to be the same width dimensions. That means that some can be wider than others, by as much as 1/4". If you attach the joist hangers first, an then add the joist hangers after, you are going to run into some of them not being at the same height as others. By installing them, and then adding the joist hangers after, you can adjust the height of each, to create a unified level layout.
4.) Remember that you will also need a concrete landing pad, or footing arrangment for your stair stringers leading from the deck, to grade level.
5.) Your choice of flashing looks good, however, it appears to be aluminum. If it is, I'd have to mention that aluminum is not recommended as a flashing for Pressure Treated Deck Ledgers: 

http://www.woodpreservation.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=26
_"Do not use pressure treated wood in direct cont__act with aluminum – When using pressure treated wood in close proximity to aluminum products, such as aluminum siding, flashing, and door and window frames, a 1/4" minimum space must be allowed for between the pressure treated wood and the aluminum products. Polyethylene or nylon spacers can be used to maintain the 1/4" spacing."_

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/homes/story.html?id=23a1217b-9527-4ebb-81f1-97cf362d841d
_"Aluminum flashing is another area you need to consider when using pressure-treated wood. Aluminum is especially vulnerable to corrosion when in contact with copper-rich lumber. That's why it's essential to use copper flashing anywhere near pressure-treated wood."_


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## beer_geek (Feb 19, 2007)

Looking good. I have a recommendation. The ground looks like it is very close to the left side of the basement window frame. Before you put on the deck boards, make sure you have enough clearance. Make sure it is properly graded. It would be a real PITA to have to fix that while prone under the deck.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> 1.) You have a post near the corner of the house attached to the concrete pad. How thick is that pad? If it is not the required thickness for a pier footing in your region, then you would need to add one under it (cut out a 12" x 12" square of the pad, dig down, add sono tub, etc, etc...)


The pad is 6" thick. I indicated this on the plans and the inspector didn't say anything so I'm assuming it will be ok. I also checked with an engineer who said that it would be fine because the pad displaces so much surface area. 



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> 2.) FWIW: You actually could have gotten away with a single row of pier footings and a cantilevered deck frame.


Yeah, I've had a couple of people mention that to me but I figure it's better to over-build than try to cut corners. Plus, the deck will be over 400 sqft so it will accommodate _a lot_ of people and I don't want to take any chances. 



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> 3.) Pre-Attached Joist Hangers: We usually attach the joists first, then add the joist hangers after. The reason is because not every pressure treated joists is going to be the same width dimensions. That means that some can be wider than others, by as much as 1/4". If you attach the joist hangers first, an then add the joist hangers after, you are going to run into some of them not being at the same height as others. By installing them, and then adding the joist hangers after, you can adjust the height of each,
> to create a unified level layout.


Good point. I'll probably run into a problem with this because there is a noticeable difference between the width of the 16' boards (7 1/4") and the 12' boards (7 1/2"). I need to use 16' board for the middle section to accommodate a "stick-out" that will extend out an additional 2' and be 10' wide. I guess I'll have to remove a couple of the joist hangers and rehang them?? 



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> 4.) Remember that you will also need a concrete landing pad, or footing arrangment for your stair stringers leading from the deck, to grade level.


Yes, I haven't planned that out yet but I'm aware that it will be needed. Basically, I just wanted to get the deck done and then plan the stairs from there. Hopefully it wont' be too complicated. 



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> 5.) Your choice of flashing looks good, however, it appears to be aluminum. If it is, I'd have to mention that aluminum is not recommended as a flashing for Pressure Treated Deck Ledgers:
> 
> http://www.woodpreservation.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=26
> _"Do not use pressure treated wood in direct cont__act with aluminum – When using pressure treated wood in close proximity to aluminum products, such as aluminum siding, flashing, and door and window frames, a 1/4" minimum space must be allowed for between the pressure treated wood and the aluminum products. Polyethylene or nylon spacers can be used to maintain the 1/4" spacing."_
> ...


It's actually vinyl flashing. I came across that issue in doing some research prior to building, but thanks for the heads-up.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> It looks well planned and laid out. However, I have a couple of initial observations & concerns:
> 
> 1.) You have a post near the corner of the house attached to the concrete pad. How thick is that pad? If it is not the required thickness for a pier footing in your region, then you would need to add one under it (cut out a 12" x 12" square of the pad, dig down, add sono tub, etc, etc...)
> 2.) FWIW: You actually could have gotten away with a single row of pier footings and a cantilevered deck frame.
> ...





thekctermite said:


> Nice pictures showing your project's progress! Looks good so far.
> 
> You could sand the high spot of the beam if you need to. People say don't sand treated treated lumber, but I say pooey. Don't eat the dust or the chips and you won't suffer any ill effects. The material is treated to retention, so it goes down through the thickness of the wood. It won't hurt it to knock an edge off.
> 
> A hand plane would work well for this if you have one. Another option would be to mark your joist layout on the beam and just use a chisel to remove 1/8" off the top only where you need to.


Thanks. I'll give the belt sander a shot. If that doesn't work, I'll notch out the beams.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

beer_geek said:


> Looking good. I have a recommendation. The ground looks like it is very close to the left side of the basement window frame. Before you put on the deck boards, make sure you have enough clearance. Make sure it is properly graded. It would be a real PITA to have to fix that while prone under the deck.


Do you mean remove some dirt around the window and make sure the ground is properly graded before installing the decking boards??


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Here's a picture of the deck design. The only differences between this drawing and the finished deck should be: 

1. The addition of some type of foundation or footings supporting the bottom of the stairs; 

2. The plans only show one post mounted to the existing slab when in reality, there are two; and 

3. The post supporting the intersection of the two beams at a 45 degree angle under the stairs will be a 6x6 rather than a 4x4. 

I think that's it...


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Nice Design Software!


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Nice Design Software!


Thanks. It's actually Google Sketchup. You can download it for free here: http://sketchup.google.com/download/


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## beer_geek (Feb 19, 2007)

Ler0y Jenkins said:


> Do you mean remove some dirt around the window and make sure the ground is properly graded before installing the decking boards??


 
Yes. That's exactly what I mean. An "ounce of prevention" sort of thing.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

beer_geek said:


> Yes. That's exactly what I mean. An "ounce of prevention" sort of thing.


Good point. I'll rake it out and make sure the grading is good before adding the joists. Thanks for the input.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Another question: 

Do I need to attach the decking to every single joist? The reason I ask is because I have 25 joists (3 of which are double joists for the seams) including the outside joists. If I use two screws per joist, every row of decking boards will have over 50 screws. If my deck is 12' deep and the decking boards are 6" wide, I will need approximately 24 rows of decking boards. That's 1,200 screws. Can I skip joists?? Maybe do every other joist?? 

Also, I bought a 25 lb bucket of stainless steel 2 1/2" decking screws. Does anyone know approximately how many screws come in a 25 lb bucket??


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Common practice is to screw every piece of decking to every joist. That's the way you _should_ do it. That being said, I don't think anyone will notice if you skip every other joist. 

I say that tongue-in-cheek. If your decking is pressure treated...Which I'm thinking it is...You need to screw it down to every joist. Pressure treated material looks really nice for a few weeks, and then the sun hits it and it starts to dry out and go crazy. It will move or cup on you anywhere you give it an opportunity. 

You certainly don't need to be using stainless steel screws with pressure treated material. There are cheaper options that will perform in treated material.

Not sure about the screw count per pound.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

You should not have to screw your decking into both of the doubles or all of the triples as long as these joists are properly tied together. After reading your posts, they are more than likely over secured.:thumbsup:
As a point of interest, I will use stainless fasteners in 99% of my exterior construction. For pressure treated you should use either NoCoRode, double dipped galvanized or stainless.
Not affiliated, but the best price I've seen is at McFeely's online.

Great looking deck, pictures and very thorough posts.:thumbup:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Sorry guys, to clear up the confusion, the undercarriage is all pressure treated but the decking is 5/4" cedar. I priced some screws that were not stainless but coated to work with "light-colored woods" and they were more than the stainless. Is there a cheaper alternative than stainless for cedar? I paid about $89.00 for a 25 lb bucket of stainless. Thanks.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Cedar is very high in tannic acid which provides its decay resistance. This acid will react with most fasteners and cause the cedar to bleed around the fasteners. Use 304, 305 stainless. If in a seaside environment use 316. Have you though about a hidden fastener system? I used one by TBY and do not recommend.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

47_47 said:


> Cedar is very high in tannic acid which provides its decay resistance. This acid will react with most fasteners and cause the cedar to bleed around the fasteners. Use 304, 305 stainless. If in a seaside environment use 316. Have you though about a hidden fastener system? I used one by TBY and do not recommend.


Thanks for the input. I didn't think to check what grade the stainless steel screws were; I'll check when I get home. 

I haven't considered using a hidden fastener system. Do you know of one that you would recommend?


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

I just read you're using 5/4" decking. Are your joists 16" O.C.? I really have not done much research on hidden fasteners, I thought I did enough  and cannot recommend a brand.
All I can tell you is that they are more expensive than conventional fasteners. Google is your friend and I'd do a quick cost analysis to see if they will fit within your budget. I have seen a few threads in the contractor forum on them.
As a side note, before you go too much further, consider placing a barrier, landscape fabric covered with stones, or similar to help prevent vegetation growth under your new deck. It will be much easier now, even with a limited access that doing this from entirely underneath later.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

*Update:*

This weekend I was able to get a lot accomplished and the deck is finally starting to take shape. I'll post pictures of the progress and a brief description of the work: 

I needed a 6x6 to accommodate a 45 degree beam intersection under the area where the steps will go. I looked for brackets that would accomplish this but was unable to find ones that would work. As a result, I decided to simply notch out the top of a 6x6 that would be situated at 22.5 degrees relative to each beam. 

I started out trying to use every power tool I own to make the cuts. I think a band-saw would have been best but mine was not big enough to accommodate a 6x6. I ended up using a simple hammer and a chisel and the whole thing only took about 45 minutes. Here are some pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

The next step was to finish the outside beam and attach the outside joists. Here are some pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Next, it was just a matter of installing the joists. I had previously attached the joist-hangers to the ledger board and someone pointed out that that might pose an issue if the boards are different heights. Luckily, everything was fine. I had to run one board through the table saw to knock about 1/8" off of it, but all the others fit without a problem. 

Also, I posted previously about the inner beam being a bit higher than necessary in a couple of parts. I contemplated sanding the beam with a belt-sander but, once again, found that a hammer and chisel was the way to go. Basically, I just put each joist in the hanger. If it fit in the hanger and touched both beams I left it alone. If it didn't make contact with either the inside or outside beam, I took a pencil and drew a line on the bottom of the joist where it intersected the high beam and then used the chisel to knock between 1/16" and 1/8" off the bottom.

In the end, this was quicker than a belt sander and probably better since I didn't have to worry about removing any of the pressure treatment. Here are some pics:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Next, I measured 12' out and marked a chalk-line across the front of the joists and trimmed the ones that needed to be trimmed. Then I measured 14' for the 14' section, snapped a chalk-line, and trimmed those joists. After that I made a 45 degree angle where the steps will go and trimmed those joists. Here are some pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Finally, I began attaching the header joist temporarily with drywall screws so I can figure out what needs to be cut and where. I ran out of wood so I had to stop there. Here are some pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Here are some pictures from on top of the deck. I also put the temporary staircase that I made on the left side, near the sliding glass door. I laid some 5/4 cedar planks down temporarily so we can walk from the house to the back yard (yea!!! I feel like I almost have a deck now :thumbsup. 

Even the dog likes it.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

I have a question: 

I plan on attaching my stairs to the header joist indicated in this picture. My question is, how do I attach the header joist to the floor joists(currently, it is only temporarily attached with drywall screws)? I guess I could just nail or screw the header joist into the ends of each floor joist but I'm worried about the strength of that connection because I will be nailing/screwing into the end of 2x8. Is this typically how its done or do I need to attach it a different way? Perhaps with lag screws?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Face-nail the rim joist directly into the joists behind it. You could add some off-angle, inside corner, joists hangers, for the purpose of mechanically fastening the rim joist to those joists.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

*Update*

Since my last set of pictures the work has slowed. Installing the decking boards was a lot more difficult and time-consuming than I expected. It took about 15 hours total, which I had to do over the course of two weekends. In any case, here are some pictures with the decking installed. Since these pictures, I've also installed the railing posts with the vinyl covers (including the post cap and post skirt). I bought some lights that install on the posts and I'll hopefully install them this weekend. After that, I just need to install the railings and do the stairs. I'm thinking of ordering Viking Railings. Has anyone heard of this brand? Any input. Thanks.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

I was lucky enough to have the last decking board fit perfectly on the last row (I wish I could say that I planned it that way). I also tried to match the boards so that each row contained a consistent style/color of boards. I think it came out pretty good. Here are some more pictures:


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

The deck looks great so far. Cool looking dog too!


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

thekctermite said:


> The deck looks great so far. Cool looking dog too!


Thanks. The deck is coming along nicely. The dog is Tamaskan, btw. That's a breed of dogs designed to look like a wolf but without the wolf content (or so they say). 

Here are some more pictures. I installed the railing posts and added lights:


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## RenovatorLLC (Jun 8, 2008)

Looks good. Keep up the good work, with great pics and explanations. Although the inner beam/posts probably weren't required, given the cantilever, the deck is better off with them.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Renovator said:


> Looks good. Keep up the good work, with great pics and explanations. Although the inner beam/posts probably weren't required, given the cantilever, the deck is better off with them.


Yeah, I contemplated building it with only one beam but decided to add the back beam as extra support. In the end it wasn't that much money (probably less than $200.00) or time since two of the five posts are mounted to the existing slab. Thanks for checking it out.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Looks great so far. 

Love the lighted rail posts! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

hey, nice sandles ?

but seriously, love the post. thanks for discussing your thought patterns & design solutions as i'm sure i'll run into similar issues next year with my own deck. 

Knucklez


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

*Some Updates*

I took some time off from working in the deck (summer vacation) and I had to wait for the railing to come in from Lowes. I went with a vinyl railing from Viking. In the meantime, I rented a floor sander from Lowes and began the process of finishing the deck. 

I used Thompson's Water Seal but I'm not that impressed. It's only been about three months and the deck doesn't look nearly as good as it does in these pics. I was having an issue with the water not evaporating (sometimes for two or three days) so I bought a floor squeegee. That worked well for sweeping the water away but I think it swept some of the Thompson's away too. Anyway, here are some pics:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

The next step was to install the railing. I ordered some 45 degree brackets from Lowes to make the angles. Originally, they gave me all top-rail brackets and no bottom-rail brackets. I returned half of the top-rail brackets and ordered bottom-rail brackets. After I checked them out, I realized that they were up/down angle brackets and not left-right angle brackets. The only left-right angle brackets they sell with that railing are the kind that mount on two sides of the post. That was going to be a problem because of the lights I had previously installed. 

Luckily, I was able to order some adjustable brackets that just happened to fit the railing I was using. I forget the name of the manufacturer but they are great brackets. Made the whole project a lot easier. Here are some pictures:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Next, I had to begin the stairs. I delayed for a while because I lost my motivation once the deck became usable. Anyway, I poured a 4" thick pad to mount the stairs to. Here are some pics:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

After the stair-pad cured for about two weeks, I constructed the stairs. I had a hard time planning them out. When I first laid the stingers out, I forgot that the pad is technichally the last step so my lay-out was too long. Also, I initially planned on notching out the stringers and laying the steps on top but then I realized that I would have nothing to mount to. So I decided on this set-up. It looks nice and it works. Here are some pics:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

And finally, the finished product. Well, technically it's not 100% finished. I still need to run the wires (as you can see) for the lights. Also, I want to put blocking under each step to help reduce the flex. And, there's a post that is 1" too high that needs to be cut down. Other than that, it's all done. I also built a gate that came out really nice. I don't have pictures of that yet though. I'll post pics of the gate later (if I remember). 

Anyway, thanks for all the help from everyone on this forum. Here's pics of the final product:


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

More pics:


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

That's one classy-looking deck!


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Thanks. It was definitely more challenging (and expensive) than I expected but well worth it. Nothing like sitting on the deck on Saturday morning with a good book and a cup of coffee.


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## Dan V. (Oct 29, 2008)

Beautiful job! 

I know you're already done but you mentioned a ways back about wanting to notch the stringers and then not having a way to attach them? Am I understanding that right? 

What I've done on decks that I build is cut a 2x4 notch at the top and bottom of each stringer and attach a stair-width length of 2x4 to them. This is what actually gets mounted to the rim joist. I usually use countersunk 1/2 x 4" (or 6") carriage bolts. You can either use cement screws on the bottom piece or just let it rest.

I like using notched stringers because I like the look of the full tread/riser combo on steps. Also, depending on the width of the stairway, I use 3 or 4 stringers. Then, you can use the same planking material that you surfaced with. No blocking or sagging!


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Dan V. said:


> Beautiful job!
> 
> I know you're already done but you mentioned a ways back about wanting to notch the stringers and then not having a way to attach them? Am I understanding that right?
> 
> ...


Yes, that was my original plan. I was going to use three stingers and 5/4 decking planks for the stairs. 

In the end, I'm happy with the way it came out. It's a bit more work though because I have to go back and add the blocking. My plan is to attach a board to the forward edge of each step with decking screws, and then lag bolt those boards through the stinger. It should be pretty solid that way. 

Thanks for checking it out.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

LJ,

Very nice job. Thanks alot for posting the picks. Love the lighting. I'm not crazy about vinyl railing systems. We just installed one last week, and the stair sections were a complete pain in the ars for my lead carpenter. 

Those Viking railings look great.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> LJ,
> 
> Very nice job. Thanks alot for posting the picks. Love the lighting. I'm not crazy about vinyl railing systems. We just installed one last week, and the stair sections were a complete pain in the ars for my lead carpenter.
> 
> Those Viking railings look great.


Thanks for the compliment. The stairs section portion of the railing was kind of a PIA, but that was due mostly to the lights. All in all, the vinyl was pretty easy; time consuming, but easy. 

Thanks for checking it out.


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## architecta (Feb 14, 2009)

*Railings for your deck*

Hi your deck looks great!
I am an architect in the west coast and I was just going to give you a suggestion for your deck railings. I would really recommend checking out easyrailings.com. I spec these on a lot of clients' homes and they really love them. They are affordable and great quality, and will go with the style you have.


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