# more thermal imaging - basement and walls



## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Here's a gratuitous shot of the furnace running. It's a 92% vented out the rim joist with intake in the basement.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

did you buy or rent that ? i am looking to rent one = not around here


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

It's from work.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

As long as you rent a thermal imaging piece, you have to realize the it takes knowledge and experience to see what you are seeing.

When it comes to radiant heat (not real heat loss) the snapshots are just indicators and depend on the time of the day and exterior condition. Two simple examples are a heavy masonry wall that has been in the sun for many hours, but radiates heat in the evening when the "air" temperatures go down or just the common windows the radiates heat outward (no matter what kind of gas is in between the panes), but the loss can be much lower even if something a flimsy as a cotton sheet is hung to prevent the "back body" radiation to the universe.

The thermal imaging equipment can be a great toy, but it takes some time and knowledge to understand the results.

Dick


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

concretemasonry said:


> As long as you rent a thermal imaging piece, you have to realize the it takes knowledge and experience to see what you are seeing.
> 
> When it comes to radiant heat (not real heat loss) the snapshots are just indicators and depend on the time of the day and exterior condition. Two simple examples are a heavy masonry wall that has been in the sun for many hours, but radiates heat in the evening when the "air" temperatures go down or just the common windows the radiates heat outward (no matter what kind of gas is in between the panes), but the loss can be much lower even if something a flimsy as a cotton sheet is hung to prevent the "back body" radiation to the universe.
> 
> ...


True, it's just a very expensive pretty picture maker without some knowledge of what's going on. 

What I've learned so far on our new house (110+ years old) after the thermal imaging:
*we do have blown in insulation in the walls but it's settled quite a bit over the years
*not all stud spacings were filled
*we have a substantial amount of cold airflow coming up from the basement and the add-on sunroom in back
*I need to finish sealing the new window I installed in the first floor bath
*we had two 6" holes in a main hvac trunkline downstairs
*1/2 of our basement is above grade and not insulated and will be a huge project to address
*GFCI outlets keep themselves warm


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Today I climbed up in the front attic section that has minimal blown-in insulation to image it plus went down and did some detailed 'before' pics of the rim joist areas before I start foaming next week.

It is 32F outside right now. 

When I lifted the access cover and started climbing up, I had a serious breeze blowing upward. Maybe one of these days, after a lot of work, it won't be that bad...

Attic pics:
#1 - thin insulation
#2 - thin insulation
#3 - overall view looking across attic, one spacing is really bad
#4 - 2 hot spots where romex/bx cables come up
#5 - where a chimney used to be, just bare wood
#6 - where the rear attic section hooks into the front


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Rim joist pics. Some areas are filled in with brick, others aren't. We have a large front porch that covers most of the front of house so that area is good and there is an old side porch covering one section as well.

#1 - rim joist and upper basement wall that is above grade
#2 - sections filled with brick but still air leaks
#3 - section is 1/2 filled with brick
#4 - section of basement wall far away under master bedroom, didn't feel like climbing up and crawling over there
#5 - another section partially filled with brick
#6 - nice and cold there


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

They are useful tools but with the exception of the dropped and missing insulation in the walls, there is nothing there that you didn't know already.

Stop playing with your camera and get to spraying, sealing, and insulating....

:laughing:


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Haha, my foam gun is here but not the foam cartridges. 

Toys are fun, especially toys that make colorful pictures.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Visual pics of the attic


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Vermiculite.

Be careful up there. That can be a real health hazard. 

Make sure all those junction boxes are covered up really well and not exposed.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

It's blown in yellow fiberglass, not vermiculite.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

my brother says he knows someone who may have one. he is going to check.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

For those reading without the gun; http://www.finehomebuilding.com/PDF/Free/021105092.pdf

Help identifying; http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhouse/asbestoslookC.htm I'd remove/dispose of the old f.g., easier to air seal and it would contribute to air raceways (due to firmness between chunks and irregular elevations) unless using cellulose over it all...

I'd staple the wires at the closest joist to the boxes rather than trip later and pull a wire loose as they are all missing the entrance clamps. At the access: "*E3802.2.1 Across structural members.* Where run across the top of floor joists, or run within 7 feet (2134 mm) of floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding, in attics and roof spaces that are provided with access, the cable shall be protected by substantial guard strips that are at least as high as the cable. Where such spaces are not provided with access by permanent stairs or ladders, protection shall only be required within 6 feet (1829 mm) of the nearest edge of the attic entrance." From: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_38_par007.htm

Gary


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

yeah, GBR. follow that to a T, and a guy can still miss places.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

SuperJETT said:


> It's blown in yellow fiberglass, not vermiculite.


The blown in fiberglass I see. What is with the gold flake in the picture though?

That is what I am more worried about. Could have been removed previously and still have some traces left over.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

It's the flash reflecting off stuff. You can see it throughout the material, especially on the full size pics from the camera.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

they still sell vermiculite. i saw it at manards and WTF !


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Fix'n it said:


> they still sell vermiculite. i saw it at manards and WTF !


Probably certified to be asbestos free at this point.

That being said, asbestos is a great insulator...just not good for the lungs!!! :no:


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

I was on hold for awhile today, so I rescaled each batch of images from yesterday (rim joist, attic) and added min/max points. Each group is scaled the same so you have a better reference to compare against for those areas.

I'm still on hold...


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Air sealing day 1


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

other side of the chimney.

I did foam all the romex/bx cable penetrations also, just no pics of them. Once it gets cold again I'll get back up there with the thermal camera to look for more spots. I found one spot where there is a good 1/2" gap between 2 boards all the way across. Great Stuff Pro works great for that...


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Looking good.

Obviously all the K&T wiring is dead now?


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

Actually, no, as I found out. There are a couple of very short legs from junction boxes to light boxes, like a few feet in 2 different places. I'm planning on replacing them.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You got the fire-caulk right, though I wouldn't use EPS (or any other foam) right next to a chimney, if that is one.... tin works well, pp.23:http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/ba_airsealing_report.pdf

Looks good other than that. If the chimney has a flue the distance to combustibles from the brick changes some...

Gary
PS. Keep the pictures coming!


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

None of the chimneys are active, all fireplaces are blocked permanently---they are well over 100 years old. They aren't used for gas appliance venting either, both the furnace and tankless water heater are high efficiency/condensing that vent horizontally out of the house.

Once it turns cold again I'm going up in the attic with the thermal camera again to look for more problems.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

GBR in WA said:


> You got the fire-caulk right, though I wouldn't use EPS (or any other foam) right next to a chimney, if that is one.... tin works well, pp.23:http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/ba_airsealing_report.pdf
> 
> Looks good other than that. If the chimney has a flue the distance to combustibles from the brick changes some...
> 
> ...


+1

Thought it was drywall. 



SuperJETT said:


> None of the chimneys are active, all fireplaces are blocked permanently---they are well over 100 years old. They aren't used for gas appliance venting either, both the furnace and tankless water heater are high efficiency/condensing that vent horizontally out of the house.
> 
> Once it turns cold again I'm going up in the attic with the thermal camera again to look for more problems.


Keep them coming. Looks great.

Crazy that some of the K&T were still live.


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## SuperJETT (Oct 27, 2012)

So today since it's cold again, I rescanned some of the rim joist areas I've insulated just to verify my work. I'll get up in the attic later to look for more air leaks with the camera.

Here's a before:









And an after, different angle though because there is a shelf unit in the way now.


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