# The Great Paint Debate



## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

"Super Hide is the bottom of the line. It is considered builder's grade paint and is intended only to cover well and quickly. Builder's use it because it is cheap and it touches up really well. The problem is that it needs to touch up really well. Benjamin Moore Super Hide has almost no durability and while not entirely true, I consider it "clay water". It is intended to paint new homes that are expected to be repainted with a higher quality product in a fairly short period of time. Super Hide comes in flat, eggshell and semi-gloss and can be tinted to any color." 

There is no free lunch in painting. Period.


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## DIYHelper (Feb 28, 2007)

PCMLR said:


> Sony makes a lower priced line, Vizio. There's Lexus and Honda. (though Honda came first) The trend is in every area of mass marketed goods. Since you guys/gals have me completely confused on which brand of ceiling paint to buy I did some searching. I couldn't find any high end paint under the same umbrella with a lower priced brand. I did find a whole lot of praise for Benjamin Moore's Aura Ceiling paint. Consumer Reports rated it #1.
> 
> On a whim I did a search on Bing for "Super Hide," a paint I mentioned in response to an earlier post. It goes for $8 - $10 per gallon at Walmart. I mentioned that the flat worked great as ceiling paint, as it is super flat and brighter than traditional ceiling paints which have a slight tint. Boy was I surprised when I saw the results of my search. The "Super Hide" is made by Benjamin Moore. It isn't a green product like the Aura buit for ten bucks as opposed to $55 I'll stick with the "Super Hide."
> 
> Is anyone aware of other generic brands made by any of the top manufacturers?


Benjamin Moore only sells its products through independent dealers and some ACE stores. If you bought the product at Wal-Mart it was made by someone else. Sherwin-Williams previously was the supplier to Wal Mart, but now Glidden/ICI will be making all their paints.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Hmm... Vizio is made/assembled by AmTran Technology however they get thier actual screens from LG. Lexus is a spin off of upper end Toyota's. And.. well...Honda is Honda. 

I know what you are getting at though, but I think you will find more of larger companies buying smaller companies and yet still keep thier brand and design like Sherwin Williams owns Dutch Boy.

Both Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore already have a lower end line geared more around contractors but they are plenty available at all thier stores. In my opionion there is absolutely no need to buy $55 a gallon ceiling paint. The $20 to $25 a gallon stuff at SW and BM will perform just as well. There is also a couple reasons why ceiling paints have a slight tint. The whitest of white's are harder to cover and they also draw your attention to the ceiling which you don't want.


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

Vizio isn't made by sony. They're made by Am Tram Technologies out of a mash-up of rejected parts. the LCD's are supplied by LG and the plasma's are supplied by Panasonic. Despite what people think, they're not made in the USA. As for the cars, it goes Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infinity, Toyota/Lexus. 

anyways......

Benjamin Moore has a few paint lines to consider. The info below pertains mainly to colored walls. If your painting ceilings or closets flat white, Bejamin Moore offers a flat white ceiling paint for less money they lines discussed below.

The Regal line is about $35 a gallon. This is a great paint for every day usage. I suggest a sheen of no less than eggshell for walls. It's easy to clean and holds up well in high traffic areas and can be used in bathrooms and kitchens. If you flat on walls it will scuff and look like crap within a year in a high traffic area.

The BEN line istheir low VOC line and is about $30 a gallon. This paint is chosen when VOC's are an issue. Maybe a baby's room or whatever. The drying time is the same as the Regal Line. This paint actually uses the same tints as the Aura line and contain the same hardeners. So your getting a pretty good product for the money even if you could care less about the low VOC's

The Auro line is about $50+. This is sold as 1 coat coverage and also has a faster drying time than the BEN or the Regal lines. 

I would suggest going with the Regal Line if your not looking for fast drying time or low odor.


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## PCMLR (Oct 8, 2010)

Matthewt1970 said:


> Hmm... Vizio is made/assembled by AmTran Technology however they get thier actual screens from LG. Lexus is a spin off of upper end Toyota's. And.. well...Honda is Honda.
> 
> I know what you are getting at though, but I think you will find more of larger companies buying smaller companies and yet still keep thier brand and design like Sherwin Williams owns Dutch Boy.
> 
> Both Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore already have a lower end line geared more around contractors but they are plenty available at all thier stores. In my opionion there is absolutely no need to buy $55 a gallon ceiling paint. The $20 to $25 a gallon stuff at SW and BM will perform just as well. There is also a couple reasons why ceiling paints have a slight tint. The whitest of white's are harder to cover and they also draw your attention to the ceiling which you don't want.


Apology for incorrect analogy. Lexus is owned by Toyota. Infiniti is owned by Nissan. Though Honda may be Honda, it happens to own Acura as wel.

I thoroughly understand the purpose of builder's grade products. I also understand that there are several grades of paint offered by each brand. These aspects, however, only explain the most basic fundamentals in marketing. The fly in the ointment is that the name brand manufacturers have no obligation to disclose to whom they are selling their mid grade or even top of the line products for private label distribution. Public brand extension would fail for the manufacturer. It would also cause an assumption of brand dilution by the cunsumer. To the public, as seen here, there is no brand parity. 

There's another aspect that I haven't heard mentioned, for good reason, it's ridiculous. There is "snob appeal" toward certain brands. I raised my kids in a horribly snobbish town where name recognition was for most, the deciding factor. No great shock that a small privately owned hardware store opened, and they sold only Pratt and Lambert.

The Ralph Lauren brand changed manufacturers several years ago. Rumor has it that Sherwin Williams was the original who passed the license on to Glidden.

The most important factor I learned far too late, was the critical importance of preparation. Many DIYers will take the paint home, open the can and start painting. A quick cleaning and good primer will improve any paint's performance in coverage. 

As far as my experience with Super Hide, as I previously mentioned, I didn't purchase it for my ceiling, but to "prime" canvas for an art piece. I always use flat white for this purpose but this brand was too thick and almost chalky when it dried. The ceiling I used it on was a cathedral ceiling with no discolorations. It has several sky lights so attention to the ceiling in this case, was desireable. It is gleaming white, and I do understand that some pigment is necessary in ceiling paint as white alone will not cover discolorations.

I think although opinions on paint are subjective, that there is agreement that properly prepared surfaces will return the best possible results and offer a more even playing field for comparasion.

I included the chart below for the heck of it.

Happy Weekend to all!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Windows said:


> "Super Hide is the bottom of the line. It is considered builder's grade paint and is intended only to cover well and quickly. Builder's use it because it is cheap and it touches up really well.


I know of no builders that buy paint at Wal-Mart. Not to say it doesn’t happen. 

All the builders I know including Myself use BM or SW.

BM for me, simply because it’s just down the street and SW is 25 mi. away. :whistling2:


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> I know of no builders that buy paint at Wal-Mart. Not to say it doesn’t happen.
> 
> All the builders I know including Myself use BM or SW.
> 
> BM for me, simply because it’s just down the street and SW is 25 mi. away. :whistling2:



At Walmart it is not being sold to builders - but to homeowners who are using it as an proper finish paint, thinking all the while they are getting a great deal. No doubt it is also available at BM stores where contractors presumably buy it.


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## hacksunlimited (Nov 30, 2010)

Funny Pratt & Lambert is owned by Sherwin-Williams. Check out the terms of use page on the p&l website.

http://www.prattandlambert.com/terms/

Sherwin-Williams also owns:

Dutch Boy®, Krylon®,Minwax®, Thompson’s® WaterSeal®, Pratt & Lambert®, Martin Senour®, Dupli-Color, Purdy, Kool Seal, Tri-Flow

Everyone is buying everyone.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

hacksunlimited said:


> Funny Pratt & Lambert is owned by Sherwin-Williams. Check out the terms of use page on the p&l website.
> 
> http://www.prattandlambert.com/terms/
> 
> ...


Besides those company's mentioned they are also the parent company of Duron, M.A.B. Paints, Bestt Liebco, H&C, Cuprinol, and yes they use to own Ralf Lauren paints too. They are the largest coatings producer in North and South America. Not to mention that they also sell and service paint sprayers and power washers. As for ceiling paint I usually use SW Promar 200 flat or Progreen flat. Both are reasonably priced.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

housepaintingny said:


> Besides those company's mentioned they are also the parent company of Duron, M.A.B. Paints, Bestt Liebco, H&C, Cuprinol, and yes they use to own Ralf Lauren paints too. They are the largest coatings producer in North and South America. Not to mention that they also sell and service paint sprayers and power washers. As for ceiling paint I usually use SW Promar 200 flat or Progreen flat. Both are reasonably priced.



That's why their logo is "Cover the Earth" I've seen SW paints in the Philippines!


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

I use some of the WM paint in my rental properties, but I mix it with SW (and other name brand ) mistints! I used to be a long time paint contractor and customer of SW. The local SW store sells me mistints at a reasonable rate and I use the WM paint to extend it further, or lighten a darker color. 

It won't work for contracting but for me it's a money saver. I have a garage of mistinted paint that I box up to make 10-20 gallons of "Builders Beige".


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