# How to - get a better color/Light from CFL bulbs



## Scuba_Dave

With Incandescents being "outlawed" many people will need to buy & install CFL's
Seems many people are dissappointed by the color/light output of CFLs
This thread is a discussion, explanation of the color/lighting available
1st CFL's come in different wattages - & list the equivelent incandescent wattage
Normal wattages are - these vary slightly by Mfg:
CFL
9w .........= 40w equiv
12/13w....= 60w equiv
14/15w....= 75w equiv
22/23w....= 100w equiv
65w........= 500w equiv (floodlight)

There are smaller wattages, but they tend to be more expensive

CFLs DO contain Mercury - same as every flourescent light in almost every workplace for decades
The overall mercury put into the environment is LESS due to the fact they use less energy
That means less energy needs to be produced, as a result less mercury is released into the environment in creation of electricity
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls_mercury

Incandescents produce only 10% light & the rest of the energy used is heat
CFL's produce the opposite, only 10% heat
If you have a recessed can or other fixture that blinks on/off with an incandescent then try a CFL
Recessed cans have a thermal sensor, if it gets too hot it shuts the light off

CFL's come in many different types, the curly bulbs are the most widely known
But they also come in a reg glass bulb enclosing the CFL within
These are great for the lamps where the shade is "attached" to the bulb









Yes - this is a CFL bulb too:









CFL's come in different light "colors" - Kelvin rating = K
Please note the K ratings will change by Mfg & Mfg can change these at times
Also note that many bulbs will NOT list the K rating on the bulb - only the pkg
Lots of times I will use a marker & write the date of installation on the bulb base
In some cases I also write the K color on the base 
Normal green pak from HD Nvision Mfg = soft white = 2700K
Red package from HD Nvision Mfg = Bright white = (4500k ? - guessing)
Blue pak from HD Nvision Mfg = Day light = 5500K
Blue pak from Lowes Bright Effects Mfg = Day light = 6500k




























That's it for now
-Dave


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## RDS

Just for people's information, the October 2009 Consumer Reports has ratings and rankings on CFL bulbs by brand. (Not sure if this data is accessible on their website to non-subscribers.) Generally speaking, EcoSmart, GE and Philips come out tops. I found it a useful article because it's certainly been my experience that brightness, color, and especially longevity vary by brand, and the article sorts all that out.


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## Scuba_Dave

I couldn't find anything as far as this report from Consumer Reports about CFLs

They are a $$ making company, you have to pay them $$ to read the reviews
The fact that they give Behr paint a high review disqualifies them as a reliable resource in a lot of areas IMO 
They do have a lot of good information
But with everything available on the web I'm not paying them for their opinion


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## Nathan

Great write up Dave... thanks!


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## chrisn

Scuba_Dave said:


> I couldn't find anything as far as this report from Consumer Reports about CFLs
> 
> They are a $$ making company, you have to pay them $$ to read the reviews
> The fact that they give Behr paint a high review disqualifies them as a reliable resource in a lot of areas IMO :thumbup:
> They do have a lot of good information
> But with everything available on the web I'm not paying them for their opinion


 
good information


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## RDS

_They are a $$ making company_

They are a non-profit organization according to the masthead of the magazine. You don't want to pay them, don't pay them -- but other people might like to be aware of the option. As with everything, don't treat it as gospel of course.


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## Scuba_Dave

Many people do use CR, I'm sure they do have some good info
I worked at Harvard Pilgrim, also a "non-profit"
That doesn't mean they can't make $$ - it means they have to spend what they make
We installed brand new computers & flat panels company wide years ago to spend profit $$
This was WELL before flat panels were in wide spread use


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## ARI001

Scuba_Dave said:


> Many people do use CR, I'm sure they do have some good info
> I worked at Harvard Pilgrim, also a "non-profit"
> That doesn't mean they can't make $$ - it means they have to spend what they make
> We installed brand new computers & flat panels company wide years ago to spend profit $$
> This was WELL before flat panels were in wide spread use


Correction it means at the end of the year they can not show a profit on thier investments. They can make money they just have to get rid of it in a justifiable manner. That can be done many ways. You are correct though many not for profits generate large sums of revenue which is distributed usually to the ceos, founders, and sometimes employees in the form of bonus's or invested back into the company. They are allowed to retain money and invest money into other sources for monetary gain in certain situations such as for making loans to disabled vets. The profits generated is used to create a reserve fund for no interest loans to vets or pay bills and medical expences for them out right. The interest earned is not considered a profit in that situation since it is used as a reserve to make said loans and payments. That said some of the highest paid employees and corporate officers work for not for profits as well as some of the lowest paid.

CR's evaluation of Behr paint is plainly labeled cost vs. value. They do not say that behr is the best paint on the market, they say based on cost and performance it is the best deal. Application is not a deciding factor. 

I read the same article mentioned by RDS it is informative.


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## n0c7

I find that CFL's do not last at all in a hallway application as the constant on/off switching greatly reduces life to a matter of months. They also make a poor choice for short term lighting as they take way too long to warm up and obtain optimal lighting conditions. What bulbs would be recommended in this application?


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## brokenknee

Not very good in the cold either, I have them out in my shed and it takes them up to four minutes to warm up when the weather gets a little chilly (below 10*). Do not put them on a light dimmer circuit as they will burn out in short order.


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## Scuba_Dave

n0c7 said:


> I find that CFL's do not last at all in a hallway application as the constant on/off switching greatly reduces life to a matter of months. They also make a poor choice for short term lighting as they take way too long to warm up and obtain optimal lighting conditions. What bulbs would be recommended in this application?


I use CFL's everywhere, majority are NVision brand from HD
I have noticed a small warm up time, but not that long
My bathroom CFL's last on average 3 years with on/off


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## gma2rjc

I see the ad below this thread advertises packaging to recycle bulbs _starting at_ $34.95. Will we have to pay to dispose of these bulbs as well as pay more to purchase them? Just wondering.


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## Scuba_Dave

Home Depot & other stores have free recycling boxes to dop off used bulbs


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## ARI001

> I find that CFL's do not last at all in a hallway application as the constant on/off switching greatly reduces life to a matter of months. They also make a poor choice for short term lighting as they take way too long to warm up and obtain optimal lighting conditions. What bulbs would be recommended in this application?


I have had cfls in all my hallways for over a year now with no problems. Halogens or LED lights can work for short term lighting.



> Not very good in the cold either, I have them out in my shed and it takes them up to four minutes to warm up when the weather gets a little chilly (below 10*). Do not put them on a light dimmer circuit as they will burn out in short order.


We run them outside in several lights and have noticed they do take a little longer in cold weather to reach max output. We run halogens for security lighting. Dimmable cfls are available now.


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## Red Squirrel

Good info! I personally prefer the color of CFL light. It is a brighter, whiter light, which seems to light up a room better. The thing that is unfortunate about them though is the inability to dim them in ambiance setting. My crawlspace only had 2 incad lights, I added 4 more to make a total of 6, and made them all CFLs. A HUGE lighting difference in there now and probably less power draw. 

Also with CFLs you can safely exceed the wattage limit of fixtures as they produce way more heat.


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## user1007

Random things...

6500K is the recommended color temperature setting for computer monitors and the standard most manufacturers use for their online color tools. Bulbs in this color range are not bad for most applications.

Keep your eye on things like LED replacement bulbs as the technology is evolving rapidly. IMO they are still not bright enough for most situations and the cost is hard to justify. There is legislation floating around though that would ban lightbulbs with any sort of mercury content (staggering to see how much of the stuff does end up in landfills) so do not get too accustomed to the things. 

Not sure how to get around the lights burning out when turned on and off frequently like in hallways. I do a lot of lighting work for galleries but theirs tend to be on most of the day.


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## hyunelan2

Are there any dimmer-compatible CFLs? I have 5, 65w, incandescent, recessed floodlights in my kitchen - controlled by a dimmer switch. It would be nice to use 75w of CFL vs. the 325w that they eat now. I'm pretty-sure that CFLs do not like to be dimmed (at least fluorescent tubes' ballasts don't like it)?


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## Scuba_Dave

They do make dimmable CFL bulbs
I have (4) - I actually need 5 for the Dining room
I put one in as a test (a year ago) & it does dim
They are usually more expensive $7-10 each depending upon watts
--Note I haven't checked prices on these recently - they may be lower
Some _may_ not dim as low as incandescent bulbs
With CFL you need to turn them up past a certain point, then dim them down


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## Dcislander

Good thread all. I am in the process of switching as many bulbs as I can to CFL. I had a ton of them already in the house, so not going to upgrade to the recommended brands until they burn out. 

I would like to change our outdoor dusk to dawn lamps to CFLs but am having a tough time finding either sensors that work or CFLs that are reliable. Most sensors that screw into the fixture only use standard incandescent bulbs. I did find and order CFLs with the sensor built in but am finding them unreliable--they do not turn on, or do not turn off, or flip on and off randomly for no reason.

Anyone know of or used any dusk to dawn CFLs that work?


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## hyunelan2

They make CFL compatible Dusk to Dawn sensors, I know because I need to buy 2-4 of them.

Example (note, not an endorsement of any store, just example):
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3766930&CAWELAID=396537285

EDIT:
apparently Ace has them at their outlet too, cheapest CFL sensor I can find on the web:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(c...uctdetails.aspx?sku=3290566&source=GoogleBase


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## Dcislander

Wow. That seemed much easier than the searches I made. The sensors I found were the ones that Lowes carried that were programmable (2 hrs, 4 hrs, 6 hrs, random) which were totally useless. I will try these. Thanks.

FYI, the CFL lamps with the sensors built in just are not up to the job (yet). At least the ones I spent $80 on weren't. 

Thanks for the 411.


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## frenchelectrican

Dave that is good writing on the details on CFL's

Let me fill you in couple more details including some of the members may miss some information due I dealt with CFL pretty often so here a quick run down 

For wattage size yes Dave is right with wattage listing and also they do come varations of shape 

Speaking of dimmers yes they do have dimmable verison and of course they cost more however they will NOT dim excat the same as indentscent bulbs are espcally if dimmed lower than 25% of brightness level.
When they are dimmed the bulb colour will shifted to more warmer level and some case it will flicker { I know some cheap brand will do that }

Now for ceiling fan useage this part you have to be carefull with this one due I noted the trend of using canberila { very small } base to limit the wattage however some ceiling fans do have electronic control to limit the bulb wattage if that the case you will have to leave one indentscent bulb the rest with CFL in there to order to get it dimmed or turned on properly otherwise some will flicker like nuts.

Now for dusk to dawn and motion sensor verison this part get little trickier so I will break in two parts to clear up couple facts 

Dusk to Dawn verison:

Typically it will be either wall pack or standard " barn light " luminarie type or simauir to street light the most common wattage I did see they useally are 65 watts but once a while I will get a 85 watts verison { more common found on larger units } for smaller size it will varies a bit by luminaire size and design they run from small as 13 watts to 23 watts and some will have photocell in there and some don't { I will expain more later with photocell part } 

{ if you going to replace the Mercury Vapour units you will not able get new unit only bulb for short while due the engery pact so you will have three choices Metal Halide or HPS High pressure sodium or CFL verison }

Motion sensor verison:

Yeah this part I know more and more are showing up

However let me address couple issue is warm up time most case it will come on pretty fast but some delay to warm up when the bulb is cold.

Now with motion sensor and photocell there are couple items you have to pay attetion when you hook up CFL due majory of them are electronic ballasted unless you have magatic { old school } ballast and you will have issue with flickering when they are in off mode or stand by mode.

For me I useally get Intermatic or Watt stopper for photocell but for motion sensor Wattstopper work very well with me and I used alot in commercal building due both Intermatic and Wattstopper both used netual to power the relay so it will be true on or off not feed thru with some of two wire photocell verison.{ do you recalled with lighted switch handle it the same idea }

If have more question just holler one of us will answer more question if you need it.

Merci,Marc


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## kimber

*very helpful Dave..*

I was just trying to figure out what type of bulb to put in my craft room...in the dark dreary dungeon :thumbup:
thanks!


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## richardballast

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned my favorite thing about CFLs which is the fact that they last MUCH longer than incandescents. Our porch light used to burn out every few months, but the CFL there has been going strong for well over a year.


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## Ehsoccer15

The problem is many people claim to make dimmable CFLs but there really is no standard. Lutron makes dimmers that solve the typical CFL dimming problems by pairing the dimmers with specific bulbs. This helps issues like pop-on and cutting out at low end, plus they dim much lower than the typical 25-30%. Been in the industry for many years and these do work quite well. All the info is at their site http://www.lutron.com/Education-Training/LCE/Pages/DimmingCFLsandLEDs.aspx


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## Mikef5000

I have a remote control ceiling fan with lights. When you turn the lights on, they 'fade' from off up to full brightness. It happens in a matter of a second, but it is noticeable.

Will a standard 'dim-able' CFL be an optimal choice for this application?


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## Ehsoccer15

What is the remote controlling? Is the receiver built into the fan or does it use a separate module? If it is separate is the separate control a dimmer? The fading up could either be that there is a digital dimmer control that takes time to fade to high end or it could just be the bulb warming up. CFLs take time to get to maximum light output especially when they are cold


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## Mikef5000

The remote is controlling a receiver that is built into the fan. It's a digital controller that automatically fades the lights on and off. They are currently not CFL.


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## Ehsoccer15

My guess would be that the digital controller won't work right with a cfl. Switching to halogens will get you better efficiency than incandescent an will still dim correctly.


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## ddawg16

Dave....good factual write up.

Lighting effeciency is somewhat of a hobby of mine.....all too often any comments about CFL's are full of bias....your post was about as factual as you can get. I'm going to chime in on a few things since it's been about 2 years since you first posted this......(BTW...thanks for putting both color charts up there)

LED Lights....I do not think LED's will be the holly grail of lighting. With current technology, LED's are maybe 10% more effecient than a standard CFL. Initially, everyone was bragging about the 100K hour life....now, the typical boxed LED at the store is claiming 25K hours...that works out to about 2 CFL's....but when you look at the cost....you could have bought 10 CFL's....factor in the diff in energy....CFL is still a better deal right now. I think the magic light is still waiting to be found.....

The main issue with LED's is that it requires even more complicated electronics to reduce the 120Vac down to a usable dc voltage for the LED's. That is where the real weakness is.

Note....I like LED's...they are great for low voltage applications....all of my flashlights are LED...all the dash lights on my jeep....and they are great for things like night lights and fridge bulbs.

The typical incandescent puts out around 14 lums/w (luminous efficacy/watt)
The 'average' CFL puts out 'around' 46-75 lums/w
The 'average' LED is around 70 lum/w
A T12 fluorescent bulb....around 60 lum/w (really no better than a CFL)
A T8 fluorescent bulb....around 80-100 lum/w
A T5 fluorescent bulb....around 70-104 lum/w
Low Pressure Sodium...100-200 lum/w (main reason you see them for street lighting)

Now....here in California we have this thing called Title 24 which covers energy effeciency....great thing excepet I guess no one told Home Depot or Lowes....

When you do a new house or remodel, some of the lighting as the be high effeciency....ok...I'll just use CFL's. Well, all the CFL's we see in the big box stores have the Edison base....per title 24, any light with an Edison base does not count as high effeciency regardless of what you have in there....ask me how I know......

Enter the GU24 socket.....

This is the socket you should try to get if your installing new lights. It is a short base with 2 pins....just a simple insert, short twist...done. The below link shows one.

http://www.buylighting.com/Compact-Fluorescent-GU24-Light-Bulbs-s/318.htm

You can get the same CFL...but with the GU base...and makes for a much shorter bulb. You can also get LED bulbs with the same base. I do see this base as being the one to go with on any future lights....Oh, and BTW...bulbs are about the same price....you just can't find them at HD or Lowes....

For anyone who wants to know more about lighting....here is a great site...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php

Believe it or not, there are guys who collect flashlights....OMG....and you thought comic book collectors were 'different'....


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## M3 Pete

For those of you complaining about warm up time, if you have a lot of lights on a single switch, like recessed lights in a hall or kitchen, use one incandescent and the rest CFL. That way you get instant light to see, and in a minute the room will be fully lit. 

I have not tried this with a dimmer, not sure if it would work. But it works great in my kitchen and hall with a regular switch.


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## user1007

I am not sure the LED will be the holy grail of lighting either and may be one of those 8-track tape technologies that has its brief moment. It is disappointing that it is not coming down in price nor getting much brighter very fast although some of the long florescent tube replacement arrays are somewhat promising---especially those that eliminate the need for ballasts. The color rendering is getting better. 

Let's not forget though that because of the mercury content CFLs will be banned at some point. Two many such things along with switches from cars with mercury, medical devices, thermometers and so forth are not being properly recycled and end up landfilled. The small amount contained in CFLs my seem inconsequential but start multiplying by the millions. It is highly toxic and dangerous and readily absorbed at the cellular level. 

The photo of a person who stepped on a broken CFL February 2011 is probably an extreme example of acute mercury poisoning and no doubt there is some other active infection going on and someone probably postponed getting care but it gives you an idea of the potential damage and how fast it can occur even if taken in through an open wound and not ingested. Reducing mercury in the environment is not just another tree hugger cause. 










Mercury exists naturally as a semi-liquid so flows like water. It was used in dental amalgams and is appearing in higher and higher quantities in things we eat, especially fish subjected, the theory goes, to its increase run-off from landfills into rivers, oceans and other water supplies.

Many hardware, lighting and box stores have CFL recycling bins. Some municipalities have annual events as well. Learning to handle spills in your home to protect you, your family and pets.


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## user1007

sdsester said:


> Random things...
> 
> 6500K is the recommended color temperature setting for computer monitors and the standard most manufacturers use for their online color tools. Bulbs in this color range are not bad for most applications.


I forgot to mention that the K color chart Scuba Dave published is one of my faves for showing the base color of light "as you look at it."

Almost more important is the Color Rendering Index of a light source. Incandescents and halogens like we use in gallery lighting have relatively low K temperatures but if you stick an apple or your mother in law under them they look rather natural because the light emits color across a broad spectrum.

On the other hand, we all remember flourescents with much higher K temps even into the daylight range (eg. plant lights) but that made people and things look blue or green. This is because they are not emitting a full spectrum of light. 

http://www.lowel.com/edu/color_temperature_and_rendering_demystified.html

Even at box stores you can get CFLs in 6500K and with CRI indexes above 95 percent as used by photographers, printers, etc. These are marketed as full spectrum bulbs. For any bulb, you want a pleasant K temperature (and don't mix them up too much) and a CRI of 90 or higher. Your lighting or electrical supply store will have your best options.


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## ddawg16

sdsester said:


> I am not sure the LED will be the holy grail of lighting either and may be one of those 8-track tape technologies that has its brief moment. It is disappointing that it is not coming down in price nor getting much brighter very fast although some of the long florescent tube replacement arrays are somewhat promising---especially those that eliminate the need for ballasts. The color rendering is getting better.
> 
> Let's not forget though that because of the mercury content CFLs will be banned at some point. Two many such things along with switches from cars with mercury, medical devices, thermometers and so forth are not being properly recycled and end up landfilled. The small amount contained in CFLs my seem inconsequential but start multiplying by the millions. It is highly toxic and dangerous and readily absorbed at the cellular level.
> 
> The photo of a person who stepped on a broken CFL February 2011 is probably an extreme example of acute mercury poisoning and no doubt there is some other active infection going on and someone probably postponed getting care but it gives you an idea of the potential damage and how fast it can occur even if taken in through an open wound and not ingested. Reducing mercury in the environment is not just another tree hugger cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mercury exists naturally as a semi-liquid so flows like water. It was used in dental amalgams and is appearing in higher and higher quantities in things we eat, especially fish subjected, the theory goes, to its increase run-off from landfills into rivers, oceans and other water supplies.
> 
> Many hardware, lighting and box stores have CFL recycling bins. Some municipalities have annual events as well. Learning to handle spills in your home to protect you, your family and pets.


You really need to check the source on stuff like that. I believe I found one of the sources of the pics....it looks like someone took photos from something else and tried to blame it on mecury.

THAT is NOT a mecury poisoning injury....mecury is a neuro toxin.....

Those photos are typical of the mis-information people spread to create false fears.

I don't disagree that CFL's contain mecury...but the hazard is not nearly as bad as some would make it out. If you that worried, then I would suggest that you stop eating all tuna right now. It has a better chance of hurting you than a CFL does.


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## user1007

ddawg16 said:


> THAT is NOT a mecury poisoning injury....mecury is a neuro toxin.....


Careful now. Whether mercury is strictly a neuro toxin depends on its form. Look up acrodynia (effects mainly children) and cutaneous granulomas which can be caused by walking on a broken thermometer or bulb as just two of the diseases or syndromes that come from mercury contact.

No matter really. My points stand that CFLs will be outlawed, probably in the near future. We need to recycle them safely in the meantime. And all of us should no how to clean up after one should break starting with never vacuuming up a broken flourescent bulb.

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/p2au/pps/ppuwmp/documents/lamp_cleanup.pdf


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## ddawg16

sdsester said:


> Careful now. Whether mercury is strictly a neuro toxin depends on its form. Look up acrodynia (effects mainly children) and cutaneous granulomas which can be caused by walking on a broken thermometer or bulb as just two of the diseases or syndromes that come from mercury contact.
> 
> No matter really. My points stand that CFLs will be outlawed, probably in the near future. We need to recycle them safely in the meantime. And all of us should no how to clean up after one should break starting with never vacuuming up a broken flourescent bulb.
> 
> http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/p2au/pps/ppuwmp/documents/lamp_cleanup.pdf


Yea....we have all seen the dooms day posts on the evils of mecury in CFL's......like most everything else, there are two sides to the story....and then the truth.

The truth? 

Those pics above have nothing to do with someone stepping on a broken CFL bulb.

Acrodynia:....according to Wikipedia...


> *Mercury poisoning* (also known as *hydrargyria* or *mercurialism*) is a disease caused by exposure to mercury or its compounds. Mercury (chemical symbol Hg) is a heavy metal occurring in several forms, all of which can produce toxic effects in high enough doses. Its zero oxidation state Hg0 exists as vapor or as liquid metal, its mercurous state Hg+ exists as inorganic salts, and its mercuric state Hg2+ may form either inorganic salts or organomercury compounds; the three groups vary in effects. Toxic effects include damage to the brain, kidney, and lungs.[1] Mercury poisoning can result in several diseases, including acrodynia (pink disease)[2], Hunter-Russell syndrome, and Minamata disease.[3]
> *Symptoms typically include sensory impairment (vision, hearing, speech), disturbed sensation and a lack of coordination*. The type and degree of symptoms exhibited depend upon the individual toxin, the dose, and the method and duration of exposure.


Those pics you posted are not mecury related.....

The truth is, in overall net mecury exposure, a CFL reduces it....basically, when you look at the 'totoal' mecury put into our enviornment as compared to an incandescent....the incandescent is more poluting....why? Because a majority of our electricity comes from coal plants...burning coal releases mecury into the air. 

Total mecury?
CFL = 1.2 mg (.6 bulb, .6 power)
Incandescent = 5.8 mg mecury....all from power.



> In areas with coal-fired power stations, the use of CFLs saves on mercury emissions when compared to the use of incandescent bulbs. This is due to the reduced electrical power demand, reducing in turn the amount of mercury released by coal as it is burned.[49][50] In July 2008 the U.S. EPA published a data sheet stating that the net system emission of mercury for CFL lighting was lower than for incandescent lighting of comparable lumen output. This was based on the average rate of mercury emission for U.S. electricity production and average estimated escape of mercury from a CFL put into a landfill.[51] Coal-fired plants also emit other heavy metals, sulphur, and carbon dioxide.
> 
> Net mercury emissions for CFL and incandescent lamps, based on EPA FAQ sheet, assuming average U.S. emission of 0.012 mg of mercury per kilowatt-hour and 14% of CFL mercury contents escapes to environment after land fill disposal.
> 
> 
> In the United States, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimated that if all 270 million compact fluorescent lamps sold in 2007 were sent to landfill sites, that this would represent around 0.13 metric tons, or 0.1% of all U.S. emissions of mercury (around 104 metric tons that year).[52]


So....to summerize....those pics you posted have nothing to do with mecury in a CFL bulb and CFL's are not going to be outlawed any time soon.


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