# Price Increase?



## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Is it just me or has anyone noticed a drastic price increase on insulation at the home centers? Seems like just a couple of months ago it was $14 something for R-13 and now it's almost $20. They now offer a bulk discount of 30% off 20 or more. Is this just a home center thing or has something else happened to drive that price up that much?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Interesting... I don't know in regard to insulation.

I think I note rather extensive price increases at the BB stores on non-commodity products... not sure if that is the oligopoly that HD and Lowes enjoys...or it is economy driven....(although we are getting severly "adjusted/manipulated" federal inflation indexes.


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Yeah, not sure either since both of them did it and just seems odd that they offer such a big discount for the bulk sale now. I know they always had a bulk price but it didn't seem like it was even close to 30%, maybe 10% or 15% at most. I can't find a price tracker either that works for them so I can't really narrow it down to when it happened either. Hopefully the price drops some or guess I'll only have a 1 car garage for awhile.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

$5.99 here. 


https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...4437003098-c-5780.htm?tid=-931781892665327287


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

BIG Johnson said:


> $5.99 here.
> 
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...4437003098-c-5780.htm?tid=-931781892665327287


That's really good! Wish we had a Menards around here but the closet one is a few state lines over. Out here in the barren land of NM. So now I wonder if one of them (HD or Lowes) increased and the other just matched. Seems like the increase was across the board on insulation though since the other R values are above the R-13 price.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Considering there is not much competition any more in the home owner repair maintenance market , (maybe if you have a Menards around which I've heard the best about there is more competition,)

I am sure they (HD/Lowes) price track to varing degrees, but I'm also pretty sure they price track not just to be competitively low, but also to be able to raise prices.

Here is a strange one.... I have switched over to Lowes when HD no longer honored the 5% credit card discount.... (I'm semi retired and don't do healthy volume anymore, but I've probably done $30K+ in the last year and 5% is $1500 beer money)...

But I find that I'm having to keep an eye on competitive price increases. I think the big boxers jack certain limited product prices that* are less noticeable to a buyer *... as it helps their margin without them being known/recognized as a higher priced store. (If you are buying ABS fittings, do you really go over to another store because one fiting/item is priced higher)

This may be one: HD sells a 45 ABS bend for $1.50 and Lowes is at $2.99. TWICE THE PRICE... same maker.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-ABS-DWV-45-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-Elbow-C5806HD2/100347957

https://www.lowes.com/pd/NIBCO-2-in-Dia-45-Degree-ABS-Elbow-Fitting/3438920

I brought this up to Lowes and they seemed unconcerned and accepting (as I returned 8 bends to them). (I had bought them allready at Lowes and could not believe the price increase, so I actually checked at HD.)

It has been this way for over a month, so I'm assuming that it is not a corporate or computer mistake. Other bends generally are competitive.

I've noticed it in bolts/Simpsons and other limited products...it won't be blanket accross a product line, it will just be on a few less noticable items.

This seems similar idea as the insulation issue, not wanting to loose volume (contractor business) they offer contractor pricing on some items at a huge discount, but jack the margin excessively to the HO who only needs a few.... Now, there is legit/some justification for a higher volume buyer discount, but I'm finding it more prevalent and to a greater degree.... as there is limited home goods stores competition now. 

Price tracking is very easy now on the computer. And it is an interesting economic issue. On the one hand, it is used to the consumers benefit as suppliers tame their margins to stay competitive, but it can also be used in a collusionary method when there are only two competitors (oligopoly). Why compete on price, let's compete on service / friedlyness / advertizing etc.

Just random thoughts observations


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Very true on the competition and home centers are almost immune to online retailers due to the bulk of what they sell. I've ordered plenty of odds and ends from online but I don't see lumber, bathtubs, or any freight items coming to my door anytime soon for competitive pricing.

I've seen that both ways and reminds me of the corner gas stations that raise the price a penny, the other guy sees it and raises his a penny, rinse and repeat a couple of times over and now they both are way above market value.

Can't blame you on that, debate myself on opening a credit card with them but know I'll just get into trouble with it since I'm in the middle of remodeling and need alot of stuff and don't need another payment.

Same here and always having to run between the two because one has it and the other doesn't. Makes for some real frustrating days when you just want to get something done but have to drive around most of the day to just get a couple of parts.

Not sure if it's still showing for you but clicked on the links and the HD price is now at $2.24 and Lowe's at $2.99 so they're already closing the gap. Sometimes though this can work out in your favor though with the price match. Actually lucked out when Lowe's had it cheaper but not in stock so I went to HD, showed them the price and got the extra 10% off. But it's a pain on checking every time you need something.

Yeah, as much as I don't like paying the higher prices I've understood the reason being a home owner and not always wanting an extra 50 of everything because it was cheaper in bulk. Reading the news though it seems to make sense because HD and Lowe's are not being affected by online sales so I think the investors are wanting more out of them thus causing them to increase everything and constantly be in a price war - and not always for the lower price as you said. But that sounds right on that now it seems the bulk buys are a much bigger discount than they used to be and I always noted that yeah, I could save some money buying in bulk but I don't have enough storage space for that long to save $20. Now it seems like it might be worth it more and more because it's adding up quick, just the insulation alone I'd save $115 by buying 20 rolls.

Sad thing with the tracking though is they probably make more money doing this than they ever could with the people aspect. Plus when you have a leaky pipe etc, the couple of dollars extra you might be able to save doesn't mean jack if you can't turn your water back on until the package shows up.

On a side note if things keep going this direction I wonder how long until group buy deals become more of a thing again? Just a bunch of diy'ers that get together on Craigslist or something and buy in bulk and split because the savings are that much.

Cheapest place I found was actually Ace selling it at $16 a roll, which Ace has never been the cheapest option. Guess it's time to clean the garage and find some extra storage space.

Well that seems to be enough of a morning rambling...thanks for the chat :smile::vs_coffee:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Fish_Stick said:


> V
> 
> *Not sure if it's still showing for you but clicked on the links and the HD price is now at $2.24 and Lowe's at $2.99 so they're already closing the gap. *Sometimes though this can work out in your favor though with the price match. Actually lucked out when Lowe's had it cheaper but not in stock so I went to HD, showed them the price and got the extra 10% off. But it's a pain on checking every time you need something.
> 
> ...


Fish.... Interesting...hummmm....

I just again clicked on my link, which came from the website of my local/closest HD, and it still reads $1.50.(And several days ago... it was still !.50 on the shelf.

I wonder what is happening......????

Best

Peter


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

So set my store in Denver, CO and now it shows up as $1.50...

R-13 insulation is also cheaper, $17.43 and $12.20 for the bulk price. $19.13 and $13.39 in NM. I would say distribution center location but even that isn't adding up.

Checked Albuquerque, NM, Flagstaff, AZ a Utah location and another CO location and all the same prices of $19.13 and $13.39. I don't know at this point but makes for some more research on this tonight...and probably more frustration


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Fish_Stick said:


> So set my store in Denver, CO and now it shows up as $1.50...
> 
> R-13 insulation is also cheaper, $17.43 and $12.20 for the bulk price. $19.13 and $13.39 in NM. I would say distribution center location but even that isn't adding up.
> 
> Checked Albuquerque, NM, Flagstaff, AZ a Utah location and another CO location and all the same prices of $19.13 and $13.39. I don't know at this point but makes for some more research on this tonight...and probably more frustration



Did you consider netting and blown in cellulose?


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

BIG Johnson said:


> Did you consider netting and blown in cellulose?


The remodeling is going (slowly) room by room so the kraft faced stuff is the best. Plus with this being a mobile home I have no outside sheathing or house wrap and don't want to lose all the insulation if I have to take a piece of siding off to fix it.

Checked into the rental and I'd have to get 20 bags for the rental and use it pretty quick which is where I'm at with the bulk pricing on the regular stuff there. Thanks for the suggestion though.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Fish_Stick said:


> The remodeling is going (slowly) room by room so the kraft faced stuff is the best. Plus with this being a mobile home I have no outside sheathing or house wrap and don't want to lose all the insulation if I have to take a piece of siding off to fix it.
> 
> Checked into the rental and I'd have to get 20 bags for the rental and use it pretty quick which is where I'm at with the bulk pricing on the regular stuff there. Thanks for the suggestion though.


How about r-11 batts? They used to be 1/3 the price of r13 up here and you get 40' rolls instead of 32'


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Fish_Stick said:


> The remodeling is going (slowly) room by room so the kraft faced stuff is the best. Plus with this being a mobile home I have no outside sheathing or house wrap and don't want to lose all the insulation if I have to take a piece of siding off to fix it.
> 
> Checked into the rental and I'd have to get 20 bags for the rental and use it pretty quick which is where I'm at with the bulk pricing on the regular stuff there. Thanks for the suggestion though.


How about r-11 batts? They used to be 1/3 the price of r13 up here and you get 40' rolls instead of 32'


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

No luck on those here, just R-13 and R-15. I'm probably just going to pick up a roll to finish what I have torn apart right now but unless the pricing changes I'll be forced to just buy the bulk deal and come up with some storage space for these.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

You can check the Walmart website now for insulation if you want another price point. They are moving into many more product lines now and are going to try to compete with Amazon and the home centers.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Fish_Stick said:


> Is this just a home center thing or has something else happened to drive that price up that much?


Something that increases our cost and it has always been a problem is theft. I doubt anyone has taken the time to determine how much that escalated in the last few years other than the corporations that are increasing prices. 

A friend witnessed this at Home Depot. A guy goes to check out carrying 3 complete sets of boxed Milwaukee drill, drivers chargers and what ever is in their most expensive set, the works. Of course he doesn't intend to use them. He is lazy and it's easier to be a thief than work. 

I'm not familiar with the theft security but this cashier's and the thief's theft ring was broken just a little when the friend unexpectedly entered the check out area. They didn't have time to complete whatever the cashier needed to do to keep the BUZZER from sounding when the thief ran with the 3 boxes. 

The friend ask the cashier, "aren't you going to call security and report this? " Cashier- " well, uh I don't know ". She finally pick the phone up and calls someone - REALLY ? but who knows.

Now this friend tells me for the authorities to even bother with it the theft has to now be $100.00 plus in that city and until recently was $50.00.

I do not buy these types of items from Ebay or Craig just for this reason. Please join me so the hard working contractors don't need to take a security guard along to keep his tools secure on the truck and stop the nonsense in the retail stores.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Senior... I agree with you....

But I do use Craigs list and E-bay quite a lot. I doubt much stolen comes off of E-bay but I suspect that I may have bought possibly stolen stuff a couple of times off Craigs. Don't know with certainity.

At the closest HD to my daughters in San Rafeal Cali,... they had exit guards... that's good.

While theft is bad, I don't think we are seeing higher prices related to, or because of, it.

I think we're seeing higher prices/margins, because the two competitors have virtually captured the market in home goods/improvement... an oligopoly.... and rather than compete with prices, they have discovered "cooperation" in pricing, and competeing with advertizing/service is preferential and more profitable.

I am increasingly using the internet (and E-bay and Craigs list) to find much better competitive prices. That is, or will be, their competition.

Best


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Checked out Wal-Mart and while they do have it, it's only $2 cheaper but you have to pay about $11 in shipping. 

Senior, well theft has and always will be an issue, usually retailers will raise the margins a little bit to make up for it if it was a really bad year. But generally margins already account for a set amount of loss every year so in the end the numbers don't get too far off unless a crime ring hits them. While the employee was in on it and obviously didn't want to do anything about it, even if you are a regular employee you let the stuff walk because you'll get fired if you do anything about thefts at a corporate job. Those door buzzers only keep the honest folk on edge when something doesn't get deactivated at the register. Generally though anything under $500 or so they don't do anything about. Over that becomes a felony which then they will pursue police involvement and dedicate some extra internal resources to. Like Mtn said I think we're seeing the competitive pricing go just the opposite way because of no competition and together they can both make more if they work together.

Ebay and Craigslist can go both ways. I've bought plenty of items that were from a kit that was taken apart. Seller makes a decent profit and I end up with a cheaper item since I didn't have to buy a kit.


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