# Holmes Inspection Show



## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

The threads are mostly all about "Holmed on Holmes" which they called it before the "revamp"


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

One of my favorite shows.......they sure do tackle some awful jobs.


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## williamwiens (Nov 13, 2010)

i've learned a ton from the show.

would be nice to have his budget though.....


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

There is a certain Home Inspector website that hates Mike Holmes. They believe that he is wrong in what he does in calling them out on not being through on their inspections, along with DIYer's and builders not properly following codes.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

He doesn't always do things the right way either.


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

rusty baker said:


> He doesn't always do things the right way either.


Some of this comes from him being in Canada. Iglooland does things differently than some of the states.


The only thing I don't like about that show is his answer to just about everything is "it's all coming down." Your livingroom is painted an ugly color? Well, we'll just tear down your house and build a new one, then paint it a better color. 

It does illustrate the ultimate incompetences of some DIYers and contractors though.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Some of the TV contractors, like Holmes, Vila, This Old House etc. , do far worse jobs than many DIYers. My father was a GC, who built houses himself from the ground up. He could do everything including plumbing, HVAC and electrical. So I know how things should be done. Some of those shows give really bad advice.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I watch the shows for one main reason....it's entertaining. Some things are clearly overdone but "IT'S TELEVISION" And he's far less annoying that Bob (know it all) Villa. Some good ideas come across in the show, some not so good. But all in all it's just another home improvement show. And I do agree with the general statement about home inspectors. Just haven't figured out why the Canadians like the electrical panels sideways. Those panels aren't allowed as is in the Us


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

rusty baker said:


> He doesn't always do things the right way either.


Need to explain further. You have to remember, Canada has different rulesets, than down South, where we are. And, if you are talking about the Sub's, that is something different than trying to state that it is the GC fault.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Rusty, Holmes is there to point out what is bad, and how he has the problem fixed. You have to remember, that he is not there to teach you the law, just to show you techniques, and point out why a situation is dangerous. Vila is a hack, pretty much all of the shows on DIYnetwork is garbage. If you want to learn how to do something right, follow the rules, understand the NEC, and the building codes for your area.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm just saying, people should not take everything they see on these shows as the absolute right way to do things. Holmes is one of the better ones, but not even he does everything right. Vila was the worst I ever saw, with Dean Johnson a close second. DIY network had a series on flooring a few years ago that had many good ideas but went about many of them wrong.


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

hyunelan2 said:


> The only thing I don't like about that show is his answer to just about everything is "it's all coming down." Your livingroom is painted an ugly color? Well, we'll just tear down your house and build a new one, then paint it a better color.


No, that's "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition". :laughing: I don't think they've actually renovated a house since the first season. Heck, they took down a 300 year old farmhouse when they had enough room to build a new one and leave the old intact.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> There is a certain Home Inspector website that hates Mike Holmes. They believe that he is wrong in what he does in calling them out on not being through on their inspections, along with DIYer's and builders not properly following codes.


There are some home inspectors - I'm thinking specifically of some who contract with the FHA - who should have their licenses revoked and be flogged on the spot.

One such genius forced my son & his wife to paint a patio in the middle of their back yard, but he completely missed 6"x10" hole in the roof. I'm talking, "through the shingles & sheeting and down into exposed insulation" hole.

What is wrong with these people?


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> I'm just saying, people should not take everything they see on these shows as the absolute right way to do things. Holmes is one of the better ones, but not even he does everything right. Vila was the worst I ever saw, with Dean Johnson a close second. DIY network had a series on flooring a few years ago that had many good ideas but went about many of them wrong.


I haven't watched Home Time since Dean & Robin were doing it years ago. When Steve Thomas left, I quit watching that show also.

I just started catching Holmes maybe 3 or 4 months ago. My feelings are mixed.
Are these homeowners calling the lowest bidder inspectors or are they really getting screwed? 
HGTV must be supplying his budget. What looked like a minor plumbing problem,
turns into a brand new kitchen with all new appliances and tile work.$$$$$
I really just keep watching it for when Damon(?) and his crew come in. It's entertainment and I learn things. They sure do use a lot of cordless drills/drivers........ can't say I've seen them using airguns before.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

After watching last weeks show, looks like they have a new sponsor.
I did not see one dewalt tool.

I think that some of the items he finds, a blind inspector should have found.

The show with the termites was the worst example I have seen to date.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

I watch too cuz Damien is not hard to look at. Neither is Mike on second thought....oh ya I watch cuz I'm supposed to be learning something. Seriously though, as a Real Estate Agent I can tell you that our Canadian laws and building codes do differ from our American neighbours, AND I've seen plenty of incompetent home inspectors kybosh the sale of a perfectly good house as well as neglectfully miss red flags. It works both ways. I don't wish to slam all home inspectors, as I'm sure there are some excellent ones out there, but I personally have yet to find one I really trust, and now refuse to refer any of them. Often a good contractor will do a great job at inspecting your new purchase for a good chunk less cash to boot!


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Personally, I don't think Holmes goes far enough on either of his shows. I think he should out these incompetent inspectors and other contractors that leave these people's houses in the shape they are in. Of course, they would probably be too concerned with litigation to ever let that happen on TV.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Creeper, that is why I do not take referrals from Realtors, when it comes to contractors & inspectors. Same when it comes to having my mechanic work on my car. I will tell others about my guys I keep on my calling list, but if someone asks for their number, I tell them my history with either guy.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

What they are doing with most, is showing new products & techniques on Holmes on Homes & Holmes Inspections. Keep in mind, that codes need to be checked in your area, along with following all safety precautions & NEC & Canadian Electrical Code guidelines.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

nothing worse than doing a job for somebody while they try to tell you that you are doing it wrong because they saw it done on TV


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

mustangmike3789 said:


> nothing worse than doing a job for somebody while they try to tell you that you are doing it wrong because they saw it done on TV


How about watching a GC that you are paying set joint tape with blue lid when USG specifically calls for green lid on their site.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

That would mean, that someone did not read the instructions about the product. When we did the bathroom, my wife thought that getting the dustless compound was better. Guess what, the husband should always purchase the materials, and just tell the wife to wait for a better end result. Goes along with the lines of her asking when she should paint, while you are still trying to sand out he compound, and come home to a painted bathroom. Now I have to deal with going into every day and staring at three walls that never got completely final sanded.

You know, sometimes Wallpaper sounds great to hide the imperfections, that wives cause.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> That would mean, that someone did not read the instructions about the product. When we did the bathroom, my wife thought that getting the dustless compound was better. Guess what, the husband should always purchase the materials, and just tell the wife to wait for a better end result. Goes along with the lines of her asking when she should paint, while you are still trying to sand out he compound, and come home to a painted bathroom. Now I have to deal with going into every day and staring at three walls that never got completely final sanded.
> 
> You know, sometimes Wallpaper sounds great to hide the imperfections, that wives cause.


I could suggest some good marriage therapists for you. And they won't interfere with your remodeling work.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

No need, since she understands now when I say something needs to be a certain way, or a procedure needs to be done a certain way, it gets done by the book. The worst thing is, who ever tries to pull up the tile in the bathroom, will be better off just cutting the 1x4 sub pine flooring out, since it was done by the instructions from the manufacturer.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I saw a show on DIY channel (not Holmes but some pretty boy) doing a kitchen remodel. They cut PEX pipe with a hacksaw (so much for a clean square cut) and joined everything with Sharkbites.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

hyunelan2 said:


> Some of this comes from him being in Canada. Iglooland does things differently than some of the states.
> 
> 
> No, he does some stuff improperly, like when they do structural framing with screws.(doesn't have the shear strength of nails)
> ...


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## novanoel (Jul 26, 2008)

I have learned a lot of things from this show. 

However, the hard part for me as a DYIer is sorting out his advice and techniques. He makes it seem like it is his way or no way. He is not very tolerate of other building techniques other than his own. 

In the end, if a DYIer is following his advice, then it is certainly much better than following some fool with no experience in the trade.

My two pennies worth.:thumbsup:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Chris, actually the framing that they do with screws is not structurally, second, look at it to the point, that they have to correct what the crook builder did. Quit defending the crooks, because without them, people like Holmes would not be around to fix the problems they create.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Actually novanel, he does it from the point of the codes, but also, he is a perfectionist, and has stated that he does it like he would like the same work done on his own place. How many times have you heard of someone going back and correcting problems at a place that has had Mike Holmes have his sub's fix some crooked contractor did to the structure.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Holmes isn't supposed to be a DIY show. There are a few out there, but I doubt many if any home owners would attack the problems that Holmes does. It's more about pointing out problems and getting them fixed than a tutorial.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

This has been mentioned, but it seems to keep on being ignored.

Not a single one of those homeowners is paying for the enormous amounts of time, expensive materials and money Holmes expends.

I seldom work for anyone who wants me to do something the most expensive way I can possibly find. They, just like most of you, (and me too) want a good job at as reasonable a price as they can find.

This is not Holmes. He basically has Carte Blanc to spend as much as he desires.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Chris, actually the framing that they do with screws is not structurally, second, look at it to the point, that they have to correct what the crook builder did. Quit defending the crooks, because without them, people like Holmes would not be around to fix the problems they create.


 

Actually it is structural framing-when installing floor joists that support the live and dead loads of a floor, this is referred to as structural framing. I've seen them do this several times.

I've also seen them build a garage-this one takes the cake-banged their walls together with screws, then sat there with impacts and screwed the plywood sheathing on:laughing:

I'm not "defending the crooks" I see some of the work they do, and it's worth criminal charges. However the other end of this is ensuring that you hire a real pro, not the cheapest bidder. He sends a good message, do your homework on who you hire, and bring in the right trades for the right jobs. 

please read my posts before responding


That aside, other than his fascination with screws, I think he is quite knowledgable and does good work. My main problem with him-as Willie mentioned, everything seems to have no cost attached, I don't see it as a realistic relationship.

The show i prefer is real reno's. They do great work, and you get a much more realistic idea of the reno process. 

Bottom line is if I don't dig holmes as much, thats my opinion... I think his heart is in the right place, I just find him a bit arrogant, because nobody is perfect, including him, and sometimes watching all his different shows on HGTV, superstar challenges, just takes himself a bit too seriously. The guy from real reno's is more humble, that's all.

My advice to anyone wanting to avoid a nightmare scenario like you see on Holmes on Holmes, is do your homework and be aware of anyone who is much much cheaper than the competition.


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

I have watched many of his shows, and he is way over the top. In regards to his budget (which he does have one) he is almost always over. In fact in 2009 he was so far over budget on his jobs, he owed the network money, even after his paycheck. He makes more money with his books and other endorsements. When he does someones house, they are expected to pay what ever they can, some have money, and some do not. Up here in Igloo land we do have some differences, first of all NO igloos, but if we did.... it would mean we would have a whole lot of cheap ( I mean affordable housing) for Holmes to work on. Like to see him work on an igloo, now that would be coool. Sorry for the pun but had to put it in there.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> he is a perfectionist,


Now that right there is funny as hell, I don't care what anybody says - that's funny.
LMAO:laughing:


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

Could you imagine going to a customers house to tile the bathroom floor, and billing them for a new tile floor, new toilet, new tub, new light fixtures. NOT REALITY, they would tell you to stick your bill up your butt. Because Holmes has the network behind him he can do all of that. I think it makes the real working stiff look bad.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

yeah i'm curious how the whole process works. Seems like (in the original program anyways) the HO would have spent all their money already, or be on a very fixed income. The work is always top dollar and then some, like 20 000 extra's here and there.

I'm guessing the sponsors pay the tv show, and the tv show covers the majority of the costs of the reno, as it is their material to stay on TV. Good deal for the homeowner's anyways. Just as long as people keep in mind it is made for TV.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Actually Chris, his foundation pays for the job costs. Sponsors give materials that are not on the market yet to try out.

Fixrite, actually if you pay attention to these jobs that Holmes is doing, it comes down to the fact, that the shoddy work that was done by the crooked contractor, usually warrants a complete reno job in most cases. Mike just doesn't show up on a job and goes "floor is bad, so redo everything." What you are missing, is that the producers cut out the majority showing why the job needs done.

Any reno show on DIY, TLC, HGTV at the most with the pretty boys, or home owners doing the work, such as on "Renovation Realities", are unrealistic.


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## RalphPeters (Feb 5, 2010)

Even if some of his methods are questionable, the two things he does real well are helping homeowners in need, and promoting skilled trade. 
Anybody that does a home repair or reno based on what they saw on a TV show is the one with a problem.

*The Holmes Foundation* is a charitable foundation that supports the training of youth in the skilled trades, through apprenticeships, scholarships and bursaries

http://makeitright.ca/Holmes_Foundation/foundation.php?page_id=76


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I'll never forget two episodes I watched.

He commented at the end of one of them that they "were only $750,000 over budget, but the homeowner got a nice new house out of it."

And on the other show he was so proud that they "were only $500,000 over budget."

Mind you, these were not the total costs of the jobs, but simply the portion where he exceeded the expected costs.

Anyone in their right minds who was actually paying for those jobs out of their own pockets would have had him in court in a New York minute.


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> Now that right there is funny as hell, I don't care what anybody says - that's funny.
> LMAO:laughing:


ok Larry who let you in the room


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## speedtree (Mar 7, 2010)

It's entertainment pure and simple.


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Actually Chris, his foundation pays for the job costs. Sponsors give materials that are not on the market yet to try out.
> 
> Fixrite, actually if you pay attention to these jobs that Holmes is doing, it comes down to the fact, that the shoddy work that was done by the crooked contractor, usually warrants a complete reno job in most cases. Mike just doesn't show up on a job and goes "floor is bad, so redo everything." What you are missing, is that the producers cut out the majority showing why the job needs done.


I wonder occasionally how Mike or the producers find these homes that would fill a 1 hr. show. Usually, the damage we see is after Damion & crew gets there and starts pulling sheetrock down.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

I used to enjoy watching the show, before we dropped cable. It was as educational as anything on TV ever is.

I was always struck by two things:
1. Their ability to find homes where absolutely abysmal work had been done.
2. The fact that they seemed to have an unlimited budget.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

ahhh Damion... Actually my friend's husband 's window company has been used on the show a couple of times. Boy that really helped grow his business


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Tizzer, when we re-did our bath, we did not know the extent of how badly damaged the Rock-Lathe was until we started to tear down walls around the shower. Looking at certain areas that you know there are problems you can tell it is bad. Most stuff like pipes, heating, structure, there are ways to tell without destructing to look. Looking from the outside, if you notice the roof line sagging in certain spots, shingles not in good nature, it can tell you that there are roof problems. Brick facade, with cracks in the mortar joints, rusting lintels, other structure problems, along with signs of water damage inside.

It really is not hard to tell. Any home out there, no matter how well it is built, will show signs within five years. Most remodel jobs are done careless, and very much on the cheap, especially with flips.


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## MegaMagma39 (Apr 16, 2011)

Different doesn't always mean wrong. I don't think that networks would put these shows on the air if they truly gave wrong advice or showed the wrong ways to do things, would they? I've never seen the show, so I don't know.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

I see a lot of things done wrong like setting natural stones like marble and slate with mastic.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Different doesn't always mean wrong. I don't think that networks would put these shows on the air if they truly gave wrong advice or showed the wrong ways to do things, would they? I've never seen the show, so I don't know.


OH YES THEY WOULD - and do.
It is done (wrong) way more than it should be on those TV shows.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

I don't think it's so much ripping it apart (although i'm sure sometimes it could be avoided somewhat on the show) what I find with the holmes show, is that the materials they replace the original with are all top dollar.

I think it's great that he is helping people in need, like I said I think his heart is in the right place. 

The issue I see, is that the results of these reno's (often very nice, top dollar) are probably not within the original budget of the homeowner's. I would like to know the difference between the original bid, and the amount of money spent on the holme's reno. I think there is a difference in doing the job "right" and spoiling someone in need. The message this sends is, holmes does it right, however I think there can be a difference between "doing it right" and "having no apparent budget whatsoever" I think it would be great to do every reno this way, however there are few homeowners willing to pay for it.

Would be nice if they had some kind of an apparent budget, and see how they can produce a great quality result within that budget. If people have a limited budget, then maybe do one phase and do the rest when more money is available. I think that is what makes a good contractor, delivering the best possible value and quality on a certain budget. Whether is be a bit low or very flush.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> I think it's great that he is helping people in need, like I said I think his heart is in the right place.


Yow...with every step he takes to the bank.


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

I watch and enjoy his shows. However, I have seen a few things that I question. 
On one program he was using teflon tape on compression fittings?????
Just last night he was building an outdoor deck that looked to be about three foot high at the outside wall attachment. He mounted the ledger board to a brick wall with expansion bolts.
I am in the process of building a deck and from all information I have seen, this is not allowed by code.:no: Maybe it is different in Canada:thumbsup:


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

Adding to what ChrisBC said: I get the feeling people write to Mike not only to "make things right", but to also get items they couldn't afford otherwise.
I'd take a lot of that stuff that gets tossed in the dumpster. 
When the happy couple arrives home at the ending, it looks like they won the grand prize off the Newlywed Game.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

I watch these shows all the time. I look for ideas I could use. It really makes me wonder what Mike would have done with my old house:laughing:. dorf dude...


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> Yow...with every step he takes to the bank.


Actually, it is well known here in Canada that in the second year of the show, he actually worked for nothing. Whenever he goes over budget to "make it right", he first gives up his own salary before asking for donations from sponsors, suppliers, etc. In the second year, he was actually $50,000 in the hole when it came to his salary.

In the few years since, he usually breaks even at the end of a season of shows, but his income comes his books, other shows he does (Canada's worst Handiman, etc), and his other crews that are actually not on the show but doing real construction jobs. Only Damon's crew is on the show.

Yes his jobs are way over done. I've spoken with Mike (came to our Home and Garden Show and spoke a couple yrs ago), and he said yes, he knows he way over does it. But, he says that even though there are times he could do a "fix" to make something work, he'd rather tear the entire job apart and start from scratch to show people how to do it right, from the beginning instead of just putting a bandaid on a problem that "would do the job". But before he says "take it down" on the show, he's done his homework and has supplies and labor provided by sponsors and suppliers so it doesn't cost the home owner.

As far as who pays, the crew's time is paid for by the network and sponsors, the materials are first provided at cost by suppliers until the home owner can't afford any more and then Mike works with suppliers to provide materials for free. Since most home owners spend their budget on the first contractor, they often don't have much money to pay for the repair done by Mike.

As for his sub-contractors, like the spray foam guys, the Bro's (fireplace guys), plumber etc, they donate the majority of their time because their appearance on the show brings the other crews they have, more customers to keep them more than busy. Being on the show allows them to actually have more crews (due to demand) and make more money so they can donate their time to show projects. But, the sponsors and network do pay some of the subs at reduced rates.

As for how they find these homes, people email or mail him their issues and pictures and they choose from them which to do a show on. He receives over 100 a week where people have major issues and are at wits end to fix them. He tries to do new problems each show, or at least do an issue he hasn't done on a show for a few years.

Mike isn't perfect, and he's the first to admit it when you speak with him in person. What he is really after is holding people accountable: contractors, sub-contractors, home inspectors, etc. If you do something wrong, just do what every home owner wants...go back and do it right.

Yes, I don't like how he does structure with screws. He believes that if you can hold two pieces of wood tight together (and screws more often do this better than spiral nails), the shearing won't be an issue in most places. If you watch some of his shows he's done in other areas of the country, he always goes according to local codes, so sometimes he has huricane ties involved, other support brackets, etc. Plus, he is always using construction adhesive when he screws framing, floors, etc together. Adhesive does hold better than either nails or screws.

Yes, I may sound a little biased, and I probably am because I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself. Do it once, do it right. That's what his show is trying to say. Hire the right people, check references, inspect their work daily, and always, always have permits.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Jheeeeezh! That was long.

Your story is not at all like the claim in Post # 38, so which is it?



> Whenever he goes over budget to "make it right", he first gives up his own salary before asking for donations


What a crock!

So one week when he was over budget $750,000.00 (Post #40) he just paid it from his own pocket? And another week when he was over budget $500,000.00 he just once again dug deep and paid it from his own pocket?

Some people are just way too gullible.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

This may be somewhat off topic! i was watching Mike's show this morning and he was responding to a cold room above the garage. the home appeared to be less than 5 years old, so I would think it was built according to code.
I have no criticism of what Mike carried out, but at the end of the show, they panned around, to show the finished product.

What surprised me, was the formal staircase at the front entrance. It was a beautiful job, but had open risers. The gap in the opening appeared to be at least 5".
The stair to the basement, was underneath the formal staircase.
Now its seemes to me that a child could easily slide through the riser opening and fall down into the room below.
I know that the code requires balisters to be close enough that a child cannot fall through, so how come this would be allowed for the risers.
I guess that i thought that being 'all knowing' , Mike would have been aware of this and made some comment? :huh:


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> Jheeeeezh! That was long.
> 
> Your story is not at all like the claim in Post # 38, so which is it?
> 
> ...


First of all, if you don't like long posts, don't read them. Second, there's a lot of posts by people on here who've seen one or two shows and are making jacka$$ assumptions.

I did not say he paid for the entire amount he goes over budget. Don't put words in my mouth.  I said he first gives up his salary for the show whenever he goes over. (If you knew this man or followed his career, you'd know that he doesn't live in an extravagent home -- rather small -- he usually breaks even at the end of the year on his salary versus freebies, and his Holmes Foundation does some incredible work). If you read my post, before he goes over, he makes sure he has the overexpenditure paid for by either sponsors, or suppleirs, and volunteer labor. The majority of Mike's income comes from his other shows he does, his books, and the other crews he has that do normal work off the show. The show brings more work for his overall company than they can handle. This show has become the basis and building block for his Holmes Foundation and the work it does. 

Before you start slagging the guy, why don't you do some research on the people he's helped on the show or speak with them. They will tell you who paid for everything, how much Mike paid for himself in order to make it right, and how many hours he spends canvasing suppliers for free supplies, labor, etc to help families out. Like the family he helped in my community first hand. :thumbup:

If you find and watch the biography show that was done on him, you'll see just how this entire show and Holmes Foundation came to be. I think you'd find it interesting. Too bad more contractors didn't care as much as he does instead of making a buck. But even Mike admits he in no way could ever afford to do a show like this without the money from sponsors, free labor and supplies at cost or donated.

Yes, he was $750,000 and $500,000 over "budget" on those two shows, which were shows where once they opened up walls and tore away the bandaid from the previous contractor, they found major structural issues with both foundation and framing of both homes. They basically gutted the house (I think one was due to termites, and the other just foundation issues), supported the house and poured all new foundation, plus framing structure. Both needed aspestos removal also. Those things were not in the "budget" when they structured the shows because they couldn't see the issues until they opened things up, but I'm sure even you Mr. Cline, would not just put another bandaid over the issue just to stick to a budget and overcharge the customer. _Or would you? :no:_

It's not gullible if you follow follow his career, have spoken to the man, watched his biography, and spoken first hand to people he's helped. But it is ignorant to stick your head in the sand and say _*"What a crock!"*_ just because you can't admit someone out there is a step above the typical contactor. Is he perfect? Far from it. But what sets him aside is that he does sincerely care. Perhaps, Bud, you should find a home that is like the ones he fixes on the show, and invite Mike and his show down to help (he did volunteer his and his teams' entire time for 4 mths to help rebuild a home after Katrina in New Orleans). Then you could see first hand if I'm being gullible!!!

Sorry for the long post, but sometimes you just have to break it down slowly for people.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Kool-Aid is great!


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

The other thing I don't like about the show is that it gives people an idea of the "typical contractor"

One has to realize this is one segment he is concentrating on. I know a lot of people who have had great success in hiring contractors. 

I have seen a lot of jobs done by people, taken apart a lot of homes that have been worked on several times throughout the years, and I have to say: while I have seen some less than ideal stuff, i've never seen one that came close to some of the ones he finds. He finds the absolute bottom of the barrell, while not highlighting decent work done by everyday hardworking contractors. I understand this is the point of the show, however I believe it gives the wrong idea.

In my opinion, the harsh hack jobs you see were a result of hiring practices as well. I'm not defending these guys, i'm saying they are small percentage of contractors, probably those working for cash at a bargain price, for they obviously cannot be established contractors in the community.

Just saying that after watching the show, some people will eventually come to think that the "typical" contractor are those he follows behind to fix their work, and he is the one who knows what he's doing. This is not reality.

I do think he does good for people, however he still makes a pretty penny at it, don't think he's giving the shirt off his back for people. I don't think that what "sets him aside" is that he cares more for people than other contractors, what "sets him aside" is he has a TV show sponsored back budget to go with. I do my best for people I work for, I work on their homes with the same care I do my own, and produce quality work. However I am always working within their budget constraints. Holmes isn't, thats what sets him apart. He's a reality tv show.


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## littlecleo (Sep 11, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> Kool-Aid is great!


What's with all the animosity? The show is fun to watch, and most viewers pick up some good tips every now and then. With all the mindless crap that's on TV these days, Mike's shows are a welcome change on Sunday nights.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow... this week's house was so screwed up that they had to stretch it to 2 episodes LOL.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

littlecleo said:


> What's with all the animosity? The show is fun to watch, and most viewers pick up some good tips every now and then. With all the mindless crap that's on TV these days, Mike's shows are a welcome change on Sunday nights.


We dropped cable, so we no longer get HOH. But I do have to say, it was a heckuva lot more interesting than watching crap like America's Next Top Model & Celebrity Apprentice.


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

*Holmes Come Here I Want You!*

By the time he's finished here I'll have a brand new home. Of course the show would have to pay for it all. 

Some of those folks on his show have paid $70000 big ones or more for worse than shoddy work. Then along comes Holmes and fixes it all. Ya gotta love it.:yes:


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

Docfletcher said:


> By the time he's finished here I'll have a brand new home. Of course the show would have to pay for it all.
> :yes:


Of course, as I've mentioned, Extreme Makeover knocks down the house if the toilet won't stop running.


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## algored2deth (Jan 7, 2011)

For those that may want to know more about holmes, you can read this:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/12/13/the-holmes-complex/


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Okay I've read it!

And it proves out everything I have said and dislike about the guy. A thirty foot Bayliner boat, a chauffeur, a desire to expand his base in the name of benevolence towards mankind, trips to Copenhagen and who knows where else. Money is what it is all about. It's always about money. The guy is greedy and has found a way to build his fortune on the backs of the poor and less fortunate. The guy is a joke!


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> Okay I've read it!
> 
> And it proves out everything I have said and dislike about the guy. A thirty foot Bayliner boat, a chauffeur, a desire to expand his base in the name of benevolence towards mankind, trips to Copenhagen and who knows where else. Money is what it is all about. It's always about money. The guy is greedy and has found a way to build his fortune on the backs of the poor and less fortunate. The guy is a joke!


 
Wow, I've read a lot of your posts on various posting on this site over the last year or so, and actually like a lot of what you've had to say on the way to do things properly.

But this just makes you look like a *fool*. :jester: Apparently you don't read too closely. The trip to Copenhagen was with a Canadian Government contingency to speak about ecologies and green ideas (climate change), not a dam holiday like you make it sound. He's working to set up housing projects for native reserves to help better their quality of life; working with the governments to develop this program.

He's taken one holidy in 7 years....how many have you taken, EVERY year. He has one way to escape the rat race...a boat. Boy, I personally know a dozen contractors that each have a BIG home, a cottage, quads, boats, sea-doos, snowmobiles, and take 2-3 weeks holidays each year. None give out free advice, come to your home without presenting a bill even for consulting, and hardly ever speak with the actual homeowner to explain what they are going to do yet alone WHY it should be done that way. 

And it was the network is who hired a driver for him so he'd have time to handle the work load.

He's built programs to TEACH others to be better contractors, which by the way pays him NOTHING to do. He went to peoples homes to give out FREE advice for the first few years because it bothered him how contractors had taken these people...bet you've never given free anything!

He's trying to set up trades programs in the US to help develop better contractors out there....again paying him NOTHING. Perhaps you should attend.

Perhaps Mike should inspect some of the work you've done.....keep in mind you're busy drinking Kool-Aid all the time.:laughing:


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Hmm....is there anyone here who *doesn't* like money? Money lets me own this computer, my home, my cars. And guess what, when I do work for someone I actually *charge* them for it. Wow, what a SOB I must be.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Wow, I've read a lot of your posts on various posting on this site over the last year or so, and actually like a lot of what you've had to say on the way to do things properly.
> 
> But this just makes you look like a *fool*.


Struck a nerve huh?:yes:

And I suppose you think Ty Pennington is the second coming of Christ also. :thumbup:




> Hmm....is there anyone here who *doesn't* like money? Money lets me own this computer, my home, my cars. And guess what, when I do work for someone I actually *charge* them for it. Wow, what a SOB I must be.


Yes but at least you are admitting it. You aren't out there in the cold cruel world of the dismayed silently acquiring your fortune while telling everyone how benevolent you are and hiding your gold in a coffee can in your back yard.

When's the last time you got to take a trip to Copenhagen on the tax payer's dollar?


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> Struck a nerve huh?:yes:
> 
> And I suppose you think Ty Pennington is the second coming of Christ also. :thumbup:
> 
> When's the last time you got to take a trip to Copenhagen on the tax payer's dollar?


 
Sounds of jealousy from a man who actually know nothing about Mike Holmes. Keep it coming Bud....maybe someday you can be half the man Mike Holmes is....but I seriously doubt it:laughing: Just a contractor who thinks no one is better than he is...especially when he gives his bill to his customers....afterall, Bud, as you said....its always about the money!!

How does Ty Pennington come into this? Extreme Home Make Over is a joke that has caused more families to file bankrupcy due to extravegance. Now there's someone you may have something in common with Bud!:whistling2:


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

It's a friggin TV show....no reason to take it seriously. If you don't like it, turn it off. Personally I find about every home improvement show entertaining and often informative. They show you things that you may not think of, give you ideas and suggestions that you could use or suggest to potential customers. And many customers see things on the shows that they want to use.....and that's good for business. (at least my design business). But anything that shows consumers the right and wrong way to do things, points out problems and solutions in my mind is helping more than hurting. And like I said, you can always turn it off.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

quote Boy, I personally know a dozen contractors that each have a BIG home, a cottage, quads, boats, sea-doos, snowmobiles, and take 2-3 weeks holidays each year. None give out free advice, come to your home without presenting a bill even for consulting, and hardly ever speak with the actual homeowner to explain what they are going to do yet alone WHY it should be done that way. 



:laughing: Well you certainly have met the one's who are well off. I don't do badly, however I don't have any boats or a garage full of toys, and don't take lavish vacations every year. If I do reach that point, that's cool, however i'm not there, and I don't know many contractors who are.

I spend hours at a time talking with people, talking about their ideas, figuring out a price for them, giving them ideas on what can be done in a space. Sometimes it leads to a job for myself, other times they hire someone cheaper, and they don't even have the courtesy to phone back. This is done for free.

So don't think holmes is some great charity and every other contractor out there rips people off and laughs all the way to the bank. You don't see many TV shows showing what contractors go through to avoid bankruptcy when they get ripped off, it happens more than you think, although Mikey won't talk about it in detail on his show.

Again, I think he's alright, however don't make assumptions about contractors in general off of what you see on a TV show. At least on holmes they can get through an episode without everyone in tears, like that one with Ty whats his name, home makeover show.


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

ChrisBC...I'm glad you're successful as a contractor. Please don't take me the wrong way; I'm not saying every contactor out there overcharges, lives extravegantly, and doesn't care about his clients. I just have a problem with guys like Bud who thinks that its impossible for a guy like Mike to actually do things for free, care as much as he does, and not have his own intentions in mind with everything he does.

There are a lot of good contractors out there like you, such as the guys I had do my exterior renovation, roofing and windows...they were very intelligent, gave their advice for free, and made suggestions that would cost more, but didn't charge for it because it was the right way to do it. He lives in a 1000 sqft house, doesn't have toys, and puts in so many hours a week, he never sees his kids.

The point I was trying to make to Mr. Cline is that even when someone offered him a document that he could read to enlighten himself on Mike and perhaps become informed of what Mike does, he only slashes the man as a fake, that he's only in it for fortune, fame....even when it explains where Mike came from, all the free work he does, works with government organizations to better housing for everyone which pays him nothing, etc.

I may have been a little strong or hard on contractors in general, but I have the utmost respect for people who work in the cold 7 mths of the year, work long hours from before sunrise to after dark, often 6 and 7 days a week, etc. I just can't see people lining up to hire Bud Cline Contracting knowing he's only in it for the money.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

thanks for the reply, just wanted to share my 2 cents.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

It's pretty funny how I can stir the pot over Mike Holmes. Some people just go nuts when I accuse Holmes of less than honorable behavior. It's amazing how people can be so brainwashed over something as simple and with as little-meaning as the Holmes TV ventures.

I did this a couple of years ago which is when I found out how easy it was to send people over the edge and draw them in.

Now you want to talk about Dean Johnson?

Hey by the way...

Wasn't the name dpach a name that was associated with the disappearance (and alleged murder) of Natalie Holloway in Aruba a few years ago? Seems that dpach was the friend of the main suspect and the brother of yet another accomplice.


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> It's pretty funny how I can stir the pot over Mike Holmes. Some people just go nuts when I accuse Holmes of less than honorable behavior. It's amazing how people can be so brainwashed over something as simple and with as little-meaning as the Holmes TV ventures.
> 
> I did this a couple of years ago which is when I found out how easy it was to send people over the edge and draw them in.
> 
> ...


 
Who the heck is Natalie Holloway? More Kook Aid, eh? Again, not everyone's world revolves around the one you live in. :no:

Not sure how you label Mike as little-meaning...he's trying to change codes so they are more than the 20 yr old minimum because we build houses differently today and there is new technology that is so much better than old ways (kerdi membranes and Schluter system for under tiles, using construction adhesives in addition to nails/screws, etc that don't throw the average budget way over), he shows a better way to do things, works at setting up better trade schools for better trades people, spends 70 hrs a week arranging help for families who have no where to turn to fix their issues from shoddy contractors (not saying all contractors are shoddy), and he does a lot of work that is volunteer and free. Is he a god, heck no! Is he making money off his ventures, yes. Is he overdoing most things, yes. Do I agree with everything he does, no! But, making money now is the end product of years of sincerely trying to change things for the better in the construction industry. As the article said, he didn't approach a network about doing the show, the network approached him and they had to convince him to even do it. He was already out there doing this as much as he could long before a show. So he's not all about the money.

If all you have time to do is try and stir the pot, how about you spend your time being more constructive and positive....seems you have a lot of free time to spend on this forum....perhaps a "I'll be the hero on here and save the day" ego trip. :laughing:


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalee_Holloway


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

rusty baker said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalee_Holloway


Thanks Rusty....interesting reading. Sad story.

Again, show that our friend Mr. Cline doesn't really do much research and goes by either memory or BS. Ms Holloway's friend/suspect was Deepak Kalpoe.

I can understand how Mr. Cline could confuse Dpach for Deepak, seeing how he likes to kill time by stiring up crap, and we all know that Canada is very close to Aruba on the map. For a guy who has 30+ years in the business, and has probably seen a lot of "done it wrong" situations, I though he'd be supportive of a guy who's out there trying to promote "build it right the first time" and "build it better" mentality. Mind you, if some contractors didn't do it wrong, people wouldn't need Bud to come in and consult on "how to redo it right" and save the day, would they. Perhaps a little ego trip happening.

After reading a lot of his posts which have good info, I actually expected him to be more positive about Mike. Mind you, a lot of contractors don't like Mike because they get the impression he says all contractor are bad, when in fact all he's saying is that when you hire a contractor, ask for his license, check references, do homework so you can inspect the work, and make sure he answers all your questions and always has permits. In other words, hire good contractors.

Good contractors shouldn't have an issue with that.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. Appreciate it.


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

I begrudge no one his success as long as it was obtained legally and ethically. Unfortunately, there is a long-lived movement in the world that believes otherwise.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

dpach, whatever axe you have to grind with Bud, I wish you would just come out with it. Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand. I'm not going to sit here and read Bud getting ripped after all the good advice he has posted here without saying something about it. I have learned so much from Bud and the other regular contractors who post here that I can watch a show like Hometime or This Old House and say to my wife, "no that's not right." 

What Mike Holmes says on his show seems pretty accurate for the most part but what do I know. Considering the nature of his show I would hope the show's editors would catch most of the technical errors he may make in the course of production and make coorections to that info as best as they can. I would guess that Holmes physical appearance had some influence on the network approaching him in the first place. It should not go unnoticed that the gals he has working with him are also easy on the eye. It really is all about ratings and sponsorship in the name of helping others.

Yes he has helped people but so has Oprah. Both have very good PR people in their corner to play down their personal wealth. I don't begrudge any of these people their good fortunes. I am not ashamed to say that if I could get a hold of a brass ring like that I would ride it for all it's worth too. Maybe I wouldn't have multiple lavish homes, big boats and fancy cars but I would at least establish a portfolio assure that my family would never want for anything again.


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## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

I've not read all the posts in this thread but I'll offer some Holmes observations (which may have been stated already).

1. I've personally never seen a show where he used a nail. Only screws. He does use hammers to destroy things.
2. I've personally never seen a show where he used (or recommended the use of) a true voltage meter. Only a proximity stick. For someone who lambasts electrical installations like he does, he sure doesn't appear to have the normal tools.
3. He keeps the dumpster businesses going. Where I'm from, when one does as much damage as Holmes does, there is always some opportunity for reasonable and justifiable salvage operations.

Holmes is in the business of selling his show. Controversy sells.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks to Holmes, I have clients who expect me to knock holes in the walls of properties they do not own to see what's inside(!)

These days, I have to start every inspection by noting that: 

"That's television". This is real life."


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## mdawson3k (May 3, 2011)

We got two separate home inspections for our house because we wanted to make sure it was thoroughly inspected. Would have been interesting if I had seen Holmes show before buying this house, but it was only afterwards that I saw this show. Nothing would have been done differently though.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> If all you have time to do is try and stir the pot, *how about you spend your time being more constructive and positive*....seems you have a lot of free time to spend on this forum....perhaps a "I'll be the hero on here and save the day" ego trip.


Deepak you amuse me my friend. I love screwin' with hot-heads like you on these forums. hehehe You have been one the easier ones to get riled up. *THANK YOU.*

I'll let my reputation (here) stand on its own merit. I've been on DIY Forums helping people for about ten years now. It doesn't pay enough for me to buy a Bayliner or travel the world or tickle cuties with tight pants, but it does keep me out of the bars, I enjoy it. And...I enjoy screwin' with you and people like you. You've been fun.:yes: But anyone that doesn't remember who Natalie Holloway was must live with their head in the sand.

If you'll go back you will see that I criticized Mike Holmes *a celebrity*. _When one becomes a politician or celebrity they open themselves up to criticism of all kinds from all sources._ 

I criticized Holmes and *you attacked me*.
I didn't attack you!:no: 

I'll let my 4000 posts here stand up against your 14 posts here any time.
I will also gladly match you wit for wit if that's what you want to do but the Moderators will only close the thread if we go overboard. Then where will we be? Right now, they are enjoying this as much as I am.:yes:

Now, do you want to know about Dean Johnson or not?


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Jim F said:


> dpach, whatever axe you have to grind with Bud, I wish you would just come out with it. Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand. I'm not going to sit here and read Bud getting ripped after all the good advice he has posted here without saying something about it. I have learned so much from Bud and the other regular contractors who post here that I can watch a show like Hometime or This Old House and say to my wife, "no that's not right."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> If you'll go back you will see that I criticized Mike Holmes *a celebrity*. _When one becomes a politician or celebrity they open themselves up to criticism of all kinds from all sources._
> 
> I criticized Holmes and *you attacked me*.
> I didn't attack you!:no:
> ...


 
Actually Bud this is kind of fun. I always enjoy being the protagonist to people who stir the pot. Keeps some of these posts fun and exciting.

Actually, you did kinda attack me when I tried to mention a fact that Mike does give up his salary for the individual show when he goes over budget to help the family out (that actually wasn't bs, as it actually was a statement from the network when a documentary was done about the show. When asked to confirm it, Mike just smiled and said what kind of person would he be if he asked suppliers and contractors to donate time and supplies if he wasn't willing to do the same). Your response to my statement was "*That's a crock!"* like I was lying or BSing. That gets me a little defensive.

Actually, I've stated a few times through this that I do find your posting informative and helpful. I've never questioned your ability or knowledge. Just can't figure out why you think Mikes only in it for fame, fortune, etc. when history shows he was doing this kind of work (as much as he could afford -- and it almost bankrupted him) long before the network ever approached him to do a show. So it wasn't about the money.

Sorry I've never heard about Ms. Holloway, but we don't hear about every person in the US that goes missing, killed, etc, up here in Canada (even the high profile ones, or if we do hear about it, its a 10 second blurp on the news), especially from the deep south. Sad story.

Now, what can you tell me about Dean Johnson? (Should be interesting).


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

mdawson3k said:


> We got two separate home inspections for our house because we wanted to make sure it was thoroughly inspected. Would have been interesting if I had seen Holmes show before buying this house, but it was only afterwards that I saw this show. Nothing would have been done differently though.


What were the most interesting differences between the two reports / inspections?


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## mdawson3k (May 3, 2011)

Michael Thomas said:


> What were the most interesting differences between the two reports / inspections?


One was definitely more thorough, informative than the other but neither found major issues and so far so good over a year later.

I think we will still get two inspections in the future.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

C'mon Bud, tell us about Dean Johnson. All I know is he started as a "tin man" and some of the houses on the show, he's flippin'.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

I think a lot of contractors dislike holmes because you see him on TV going around telling people "this is the right way to do it" and just doesn't hold back from having an opinion on anybody. I"ve worked with guys running jobs 3x bigger than what holmes does, and they can point out errors, or where he freaks out about something however it's not really a huge issue as he makes it seem. He's just not all that he makes himself out to be. He is knowledgable, however he's not perfect (nobody is) and so his made for TV personality of "i'm right this is how it's done"- When proven wrong, makes it that much easier for him to have dislike taken to him.

Personally I don't mind him, however I don't believe what he does is reflective of reality- as in very few are going to have a "holmes inspection" and then pay the amount of money they spend on that show-unless they are planning a very major renovation and have that budget.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Only thing about home inspections- I had one done on my place when buying it, to help with negotiating the price.

I would say it was adequate, however I felt for the amount of money I paid it wasn't worth it, was pretty pricy for the amount of time spent, which was less than two hours. Maybe that was just my experience, like anything else, i'm sure some are better than others.


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## sanseven (Mar 15, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> I'm just saying, people should not take everything they see on these shows as the absolute right way to do things. Holmes is one of the better ones, but not even he does everything right. Vila was the worst I ever saw, with Dean Johnson a close second. DIY network had a series on flooring a few years ago that had many good ideas but went about many of them wrong.


 I agree!


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Flip10 said:


> Hi there , I am also keen to watch the Holmes regularly.This is really a very good learning and practical too . No all the things go favorable but it does work.


English isn't your first language is it.


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## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> English isn't your first language is it.


"Vila was the worst I ever saw." 

Most English/grammar teachers would recommend or demand this statement be written as, "Vila was the worst I have ever seen."


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## jules4 (Jul 7, 2010)

Jim F said:


> dpach, whatever axe you have to grind with Bud, I wish you would just come out with it. Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand. I'm not going to sit here and read Bud getting ripped after all the good advice he has posted here without saying something about it. . .


*Interference!!!*

(Sorry, ran out of boxing analogies, forced to default to hockey.)


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## jules4 (Jul 7, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> English isn't your first language is it.


I'd bet dollars to donuts that flip's mother-tongue is Mandarin or the like. Chinese-speakers always have a hard time dealing with English tenses (Chinese doesn't have any) and all our superfluous (to them) nouns and pronouns.

That said, I'd say flip's doing a good job - the important bits are there so I have no trouble figuring out what he/she means (although that might be because I'm fluent in Chinglish :biggrin: ).


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## RickyBobby (Nov 19, 2009)

I've sifted through 7 pages of this and still don't know about Dean Johnson......c'mon Bud!!!


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

chrisBC said:


> Only thing about home inspections- I had one done on my place when buying it, to help with negotiating the price.
> 
> I would say it was adequate, however I felt for the amount of money I paid it wasn't worth it, was pretty pricy for the amount of time spent, which was less than two hours. Maybe that was just my experience, like anything else, i'm sure some are better than others.


Two hours is pretty quick - I average around 3.5-4 hrs on a typical _small_ house.

That said, did you "make money" on the inspection, based on negotiation with the seller over the defects discovered?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

:bangin:This reminds my of the good ole CB Radio days.:bangin:


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> OK bud, time to end this.


Okeedokee!


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> :bangin:This reminds my of the good ole CB Radio days.:bangin:


HaHa I remember those days. Mid to late 70's I believe, at least in my area. I had one for a while in my senoir year of HS. It got old fast. And then I couldn't give the thing away. One major difference though, you can actually learn something here. It is interesting though how sometimes a thread can take off in some bizarre direction like this.

I posted much earlier that Mike Holmes should out some of these contractors that screw people out of their money by doing such a poor job. I thought of something more constructive though for his next original series. He should approach some of these bad contractors and pay them to come onto the show and be educated in then proper way to do things as they are renovating some poor slob's house that has had a lot of poor fixes over the years.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> Two hours is pretty quick - I average around 3.5-4 hrs on a typical _small_ house.
> 
> That said, did you "make money" on the inspection, based on negotiation with the seller over the defects discovered?


 
Well it's a one bedroom condo. He did go up to the roof and have a look.

I did get it cheaper, but more because I lowballed the price (within reason) and a lot of the fixes were cosmetic-whoever laid the laminate did an atrocious job, and the cabinets were junk, just a handyman special.

Worked on it for a month before moving in.

He did find some stuff, such as some moisture beneath the tile in the bathroom which helped the sale come to think of it. He had a moisture meter so he could take a reading. Based on the age of the bathroom I would have guessed, hadn't been grouted in quite awhile. However still nice to have it in writing.

However he missed the fact that the slab backslopes towards the building, and the drain was in the wrong spot. After I moved in I lifted the pavers outside my slider door and discovered a pool of water, and the membrane was all bubbled, etc. The drain was put in a high spot

It was fixed by strata at no cost to me ,however I am dissapointed that for a little over 500 dollars the guy couldn't be bothered to lift up a paving stone. I didn't check this stuff because I assumed that with a home inspection I would have nothing to worry about, pay someone else to do a very thorough job and play it safe.

I hired him because it was my first place and I was told by everyone that it was really important, especially since it could help negotiate and close the deal. I will not hire one again, I could have done a more thorough job and saved myself 500 dollars. Live and learn. 

I found him through a referral from family. I won't refer him to anyone else.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

^^ Inspectors are really hit & miss.

One of my sons bought a house last year, using an FHA backed mortgage.

The idiot inspector made them paint a patio in the middle of the back yard, but he didn't see a 8"x10" hole in the roof (_not _an exaggeration!), nor did he see a problem with the dead-bolt missing from the entry door. The list goes on and on.

Anyway, as with most things, some are good and some are bad. Then there are those that are really bad...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Remember, we're a friendly site.


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## mchiper (Apr 2, 2012)

*It' just NOT the "right way to do it". IMHO*



dpach said:


> Yes his jobs are way over done. I've spoken with Mike (came to our Home and Garden Show and spoke a couple yrs ago), and he said yes, he knows he way over does it. But, he says that even though there are times he could do a "fix" to make something work, he'd rather tear the entire job apart and start from scratch to show people how to do it right, from the beginning instead of just putting a bandaid on a problem that "would do the job". But before he says "take it down" on the show, he's done his homework and has supplies and labor provided by sponsors and suppliers so it doesn't cost the home owner.


Thanks, now I understand - It's entertainment :thumbup:
I just watched a show where his "solution" to a crack in the foundation 
causing a small blister and efflourescence on the cynder block,
Was to dig up the entire wall by hand, strip the water proofing, repair the crack and re-do the waterprooing and landscape the side of the house.
:furious: Too bad if you DIY and think that that's the way to "do it right".:furious:



dpach said:


> (Re: Who pays.)
> As far as who pays, the crew's time is paid for by the network and sponsors, the materials are first provided at cost by suppliers until the home owner can't afford any more and then Mike works with suppliers to provide materials for free. Since most home owners spend their budget on the first contractor, they often don't have much money to pay for the repair done by Mike.
> 
> As for his sub-contractors, like the spray foam guys, the Bro's (fireplace guys), plumber etc, they donate the majority of their time because their appearance on the show brings the other crews they have, more customers to keep them more than busy. Being on the show allows them to actually have more crews (due to demand) and make more money so they can donate their time to show projects. But, the sponsors and network do pay some of the subs at reduced rates.


This is the real reason I was looking for answers.
I've never watched a show that didn't cost $75,000 or more.
Even with free (or almost free) labor, he throws out all the plumbing, electrical, fixtures, etc. etc. ( about half of the cost.)

Oh well.
It's a good source for new techniques, and materials.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

It seems to me. Some of what he finds is really poorly done, some got ripped off and some got exactly what they paid for.
I do find he really does go overboard and it does make for interesting TV. When budgets re no concern you can do that,

I do not live in TV but rather the real world. So I have to make real world decisions.


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

I hate to re-resurrect this thread, but up to this point at least I thought the show was good for showing what would happen IF you had unlimited funds and time to perform a renovation. But I just saw the 2010 "Acres of Pain" episode, where the homeowners had ground water intrusion, roof/siding/window leakages, and well water contamination. Sure, that's bad... but Holmes added to the pain by inexplicably requiring that their garage, created out of part of the basement space, be turned back into a basement. This was stated matter-of-factly on the show without explaining why they couldn't address the lack of a proper man-door to the living area and air sealing. It's ironic because the next rerun episode had a homeowner who also had a problem with air leaking into their house from their garage, posing the same carbon monoxide risk-- and they didn't suddenly decide to wall off the garage. The only difference that I could see was the latter house was actually designed with this garage below the living space. To add insult to injury, besides not being able to pull into the garage and stay dry, a three-foot wall was constructed about 25 feet away from the house to keep them from parking "too close". This was again not explained; I presume it was to protect the cistern that they had just refurbished from the weight of vehicles. So now they have to run 25 feet from their car in the rain to get inside, and try not to miss the small opening and trip over the stupid little wall. And he's supposedly worried about safety? The brilliant Mike Holmes couldn't figure out how to air seal a garage? He could have added a 200 CFM exhaust fan to satisfy his urge to overkill! And he doesn't know how to construct a cistern that won't be crushed by the average passenger vehicle?


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I saw that as well....but not recently. Wasn't there an issue with return or supply air that added to that situation? I seem to think at the time that it was explained, but I tend to agree with you. With all the money they spend on projects seems like sealing off the garage area wouldn't be such a big deal.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

I saw that last night as well. Seemed like he didn't want to go through the trouble to build a full garage in the basement. Didn't really seem like there was much room in there to begin with and the deck had a support beam right in front of the door. Sure it could have been done, but probably not worth the hassle. The homeowners got all the work done for free so they probably didn't mind.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

i find mike has put fear into the homeowner and i find i get lots of questions and people that now breath down your neck. Im not worried about doing a bad job its just annoying. just let me do my job. 
i've seen mike and his crew do some pretty sloppy work and when you can see it on the tv and without having HD im sure its even worse in person but people dont care they are getting their house completely redone.
I remember watching one where mike chaulks a tub surround and ooo my god! he could have done better with a drywall knife just smeered it everywhere.
He really needs to hire a real cabinet installer cause just about everyone kitchen install they do is slop. i remember where they were installing lowers and their last one was the corner unit. mike is like ohhh the floor was sooo out of level we should have redone it, it took hours to get that last cabinet in. and it shows them cutting the bottom a bunch of times and adding filler strips. you always start with the corner unit and work your way out. 
there was another one where he explains what to do when you get to your last cabinet up to a wall and how to add a filler strip. he doesnt measure the top and the bottom and just cuts it straight then he explains to chaulk the filler strip where it meets the drywall and again smeers chaulking everywhere and the chaulking was white when the wall was beige and the cabinets were a dark cherry red! dudddde! measure top and bottom and cut it on an angle to fit perfect! Then they show the damon guy and he explains about how to install an end fridge panel and how to scribe it to a wall to fit tight which he does right but then its shows him blasting through it with a circular saw with no tape or anything just chewing it apart and you can see the chips! 
i know mike is trying to make the world a better place but pay attention to detail bud!


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Much of what Holmes does is wrong, but it's made him rich.


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## ahb2012 (Apr 29, 2012)

Holmes does a great job to me. What are the things that you all see him doing incorrectly? What is so different from US and Canadian construction and standards? Are Canadian building standards less strict? Holmes always makes it seem like they are very strict. Does the US have set standards nationwide and the states can set stricter standards from there? Our do we do set standards by states period with no federal building standards? Does Canada have standards by province?


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## Doorguy06 (Jul 17, 2007)

I personally like the show myself. It's entertaining and I have learned some things from watching


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> Much of what Holmes does is wrong, but it's made him rich.


How do you figure?!


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

The Holmes show is exactly what it is supposed to be....entertaining, informative and it also allows viewers to see different ways of doing things. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Would I do some thing differently....absolutely! But that doesn't make what Holmes does wrong, just different. And any show that doesn't have Bob Villa in it is OK by me.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

ahb2012 said:


> Holmes does a great job to me. What are the things that you all see him doing incorrectly? What is so different from US and Canadian construction and standards? Are Canadian building standards less strict? Holmes always makes it seem like they are very strict. Does the US have set standards nationwide and the states can set stricter standards from there? Our do we do set standards by states period with no federal building standards? Does Canada have standards by province?


The codes for canada aren't that much different from US. The home owners insurance is what pays for the Holms repairs not HGTV they just bank the money for running the show.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

JetSwet said:


> How do you figure?!


 I would imagine that he makes several $million a year. Most hosts of TV shows do.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> I would imagine that he makes several $million a year. Most hosts of TV shows do.


 
I think he was referring to the doing everything wrong part of your comment


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## HalfHand (Nov 7, 2011)

I just sold my house.

The buyer had an inspector come in and I passed with flying colors, "Best house he has ever seen", "It's my JOB to find things wrong, and other than normal wear and tear I can't find ANYTHING"

I've needed a new hot water heater for 2 months, I told my realtor this when it started going to hell. I just haven't had time to resolve the issue but I would before it got inspected if we ever got an offer (been on the market for 19 months). We got an offer and she scheduled the inspection for the next day. I called my realtor again and reminded her of the problem with the water heater and also told her that I lost some shingles in the weekend's storm. When the buyers inspector raised these as issue to please ensure the buyer both would be fixed before closing and I even offered to cover the cost of re-inspection so the buyer would be ensured that those issues were taken care of. 

Needless to say he never noticed. The shingles, I can maybe give him a pass on, but I noticed. Granted, I knew to look when I found shingles on the ground after the storm, but I saw where the damage happened from the ground. The water heater, that's a completely different story. It's leaking and my temporary fix was to put a small pump from a fish tank to keep the pan empty. I didn't try to hide it, her inspector had to move it to get in the crawl space where it was draining into the sump pit.

This is why shows like Holmes Inspection needs to be on the air. They just need to be more truthful, as in if your realtor recommends an inspector, DON'T use that inspector. Find a third party.

I took a vacation day and replaced the water heater and fixed the roof today and could have left it and stuck the buyer with the cost of replacement and repair.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Nice !!
Its good to hear your own personal code of ethics prevailed. 

Sorry to hijack
In defense of Realtors (and no you didn't slam anyone) I'd like this opportunity to point out that for the most part they are decent people too. They are in the business of selling the house not building or fixing the house and in general cannot be considered to have in depth knowledge about defects. 

Most times, (but not always) when a Realtor recommends a home inspector it is not because they are in cahoots with the inspector, but are merely offering a service because (1) it may make it easier for their Buyer and (2) Inspectors and tradespeople are in their working sphere. Who doesn't want to see a friend grow their business?

Realtors have their as*es on the line with every legal document they prepare. They are accountable and can get sued for big dough for the slightest thing, such as the use of the word AND instead of OR nevermind failing to disclose major defects. 
For the most part Realtors are in the business of making families happy. Plus we all know future referrals is where the money is. If you screw your client, you will screw your own reputation.

Now having said all that...I recommend hiring a contractor for your inspection, or at least bring one along for a second showing BEFORE you put an offer on paper.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

HalfHand said:


> I just sold my house.
> 
> The buyer had an inspector come in and I passed with flying colors, "Best house he has ever seen", "It's my JOB to find things wrong, and other than normal wear and tear I can't find ANYTHING"
> 
> ...


I've got a HUGE rant I could go on, about house inspectors. Not all of them, but obviously too many of them.

But I won't, because this thread is about Holmes on Homes...


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

JetSwet said:


> The codes for canada aren't that much different from US. The home owners insurance is what pays for the Holms repairs not HGTV they just bank the money for running the show.


The home owners insurance does NOT pay for the repairs except in one show where it was fire damage.This from the Holmes forum site.


> Q: Who pays for the renovations on Holmes on Homes™?
> A: Holmes on Homes™ offers discounts depending on the scope of the job, which are passed onto the homeowner. As HOH is a TV show, we have money to cover Mike's time and his crew, and we pass these savings onto the homeowner. Any other costs are paid for by the homeowner and often end up being 10-15% of the overall job price. However, each job is different and a homeowners financial situation is always taken into account.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

Great deal for the homeowner, 10% to 15% of overall job price? No cost for labor and most likely no cost for material.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

havalife said:


> Great deal for the homeowner, 10% to 15% of overall job price? No cost for labor and most likely no cost for material.


 
Exactly, that is what makes those jobs possible. It is entertainment, not an everyday reality-because he would price himself right out of the market if he went around quoting jobs that involved ripping apart half the house and digging up everything for new waterproofing. (especially when it started with someone wanting a bathroom redone). It would be nice, however the reality is most people do have a somewhat limited budget with this stuff. People love Holmes-well yeah when some guy comes in to work on your house at little cost to you with an apparently unlimited budget, who wouldn't.


I don't think he's a hack, however I think This Old House gives better advice.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

havalife said:


> Great deal for the homeowner, 10% to 15% of overall job price? No cost for labor and most likely no cost for material.


The problem is many times things are done wrong. Just ask contractors who watch the show. I have seen every home improvement show install flooring wrong. Bob Vila was by far the worst, but none of them do it right every time. And I have talked to other tradesmen who will tell you the same thing.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> The problem is many times things are done wrong. Just ask contractors who watch the show. I have seen every home improvement show install flooring wrong. Bob Vila was by far the worst, but none of them do it right every time. And I have talked to other tradesmen who will tell you the same thing.


The main theme of Holms shows is to redo it the right way, if they install anything wrong it would be pointless to run the show. This old house is just the same. They won't fix something not the right way after a contractor screwed up the 1st time.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> The problem is many times things are done wrong. Just ask contractors who watch the show. I have seen every home improvement show install flooring wrong. Bob Vila was by far the worst, but none of them do it right every time. And I have talked to other tradesmen who will tell you the same thing.


The funny thing about construction is there are several ways to do the same thing....and none of them are truly wrong. Agreed, some ways are better but not necessarily wrong. Screws vs nails, lam beams vs dimensional lumber, plaster vs dryall, wood vs synthetic, wood flooring vs laminate....(and Walmart paper or plastic). I've walked in several jobs and said..."so that's how they did that" and I'm sure many have walked in to a job I have done and said the same; or maybe "what the "
Construction is always apples and oranges.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

creeper said:


> Most times, (but not always) when a Realtor recommends a home inspector it is not because they are in cahoots with the inspector, but are merely offering a service because (1) it may make it easier for their Buyer and (2) Inspectors and tradespeople are in their working sphere. Who doesn't want to see a friend grow their business?


I see what you are saying, but I still would never use the SELLING agents inspector.

The selling and buying agent both have the same to gain if the house passes in flying colors (commission), but the buyers agent can move onto the next house if the inspection is no good - selling agent cannot and now needs to sell the house to someone else.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Missouri Bound said:


> The funny thing about construction is there are several ways to do the same thing....and none of them are truly wrong. Agreed, some ways are better but not necessarily wrong. Screws vs nails, lam beams vs dimensional lumber, plaster vs dryall, wood vs synthetic, wood flooring vs laminate....(and Walmart paper or plastic). I've walked in several jobs and said..."so that's how they did that" and I'm sure many have walked in to a job I have done and said the same; or maybe "what the "
> Construction is always apples and oranges.


 When it comes to flooring, there is only one right way to do things. If you don't follow manufacturers and CRI/ANSI (TCNA for tile) instructions, there is no warranty. And they are very specific. I have seen ALL of the home improvement shows violate flooring installation standards. Maybe there is more leeway for other trades, but I won't do anything that violates warranty and take a chance on buying the jobs or having failures. The last callback I had on a job was more than 20 years ago and it was proved to be product failure.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

rusty baker said:



> When it comes to flooring, there is only one right way to do things. If you don't follow manufacturers and CRI/ANSI (TCNA for tile) instructions, there is no warranty. And they are very specific. I have seen ALL of the home improvement shows violate flooring installation standards. Maybe there is more leeway for other trades, but I won't do anything that violates warranty and take a chance on buying the jobs or having failures. The last callback I had on a job was more than 20 years ago and it was proved to be product failure.


Give us as example of any show that has not abide to the manufactures recommendations.

Are we talking install, prep?


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> The problem is many times things are done wrong. Just ask contractors who watch the show. I have seen every home improvement show install flooring wrong. Bob Vila was by far the worst, but none of them do it right every time. And I have talked to other tradesmen who will tell you the same thing.


 So why do you watch the show? :laughing: If there's a show on television I don't like I don't watch it. Most contractors I know won't watch a home improvement show because they always think they know more about everything. Personally I like to watch all the shows. You never know what you can learn.:thumbsup:


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Mike and Damen are not hard to watch


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I guess I watch to see how many things they do wrong.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Some watch just to know what their next customer is going to hit them with.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

Still not giving us or me a example of how they do it flooring wrong "rusty"


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok, I have seen them kick instead of power stretch, not seal seams on stretch-in, leave too big a gap behind the tack strip, use the wrong trowel on vinyl. Use mastic on ceramic to stick it to the floor, etc.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> Ok, I have seen them kick instead of power stretch, not seal seams on stretch-in, leave too big a gap behind the tack strip, use the wrong trowel on vinyl. Use mastic on ceramic to stick it to the floor, etc.


What's the difference between kicking carpet and power stretching it?... I'm not a carpet guy by any means figured I'd ask.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

You can't get it tight enough kicking it, besides it violates installation standards.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> You can't get it tight enough kicking it, besides it violates installation standards.


Then why is it a method of installing carpet? 
All carpet I've seen put Down it was kicked with the knee kicker not by the power stretcher tool is it only types of carpet? Or all


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

All carpet should be power stretched. A knee kicker is only for positioning carpet. You cannot get it tight enough with a kicker.


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

I look forward to watching both Holmes' shows. Stopped watching This Old House. I found TOH uninteresting and too much extraneous stuff, like focusing on the comaradary between the guys and visits to salvage yards or window factories. I understand that there are different solutions to home repair and maintenance and don't fault Mike for selecting the one he feels is best. I am free to select the solution that works for me. Yes, he does do things that are costly. Some say he overdoes repairs, maybe so. But when I see him sweat breaking concrete and hauling 2x10's I feel like I more in common with him than say Steve Thomas. I hope he makes a lot of money from the show. I don't fault him for getting as much as he can. Would anyone in their right minds say to the producers of the show, "I demand half of my usual salary." This man is a businessman and not a charity. He provides a useful service and his compensation should be commensurate with the value of the service he provides.


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## RocketGal (Mar 29, 2012)

I used to watch, but the music is too loud and I hate the way Damon and just about everyone else YELLS at you. I like the electrical guy the most.


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## JetSwet (Jan 21, 2012)

Holmes daughter is pretty hot on his show, I can't stand his partner and I like the plumber although this old house is a better show.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

The best thihg about the Holmes show is that they often takcle common, everyday situations in middle class homes.  This Old House tends to migrate to million dollar plus projects in multi - million dollar homes, which may be good for PBS fund raising but just doesn't fit into my range of home improvements. When they spend more on a kitchen remodel than my house is worth I tend to get dis-interested.


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

Mike's daughter is not only pretty but does the work of two men. Few male homeowners would complain if her jeans were hung a litttle low. Would you rather be looking at Richard Thruthuey's (sp) butt crack? Seriously, I think all of the contractors are interesting to watch.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Holmes does not always show the entire job. Just because you didn't see power stretch does not mean it didn't happen.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

joed said:


> Holmes does not always show the entire job. Just because you didn't see power stretch does not mean it didn't happen.


I'm sorry if it disappoints you that your hero does things wrong sometimes. I wouldn't say they kicked carpet, if they didn't show them kicking carpet.


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## jhack836 (Feb 11, 2012)

JetSwet said:


> Holmes daughter is pretty hot on his show, I can't stand his partner and I like the plumber although this old house is a better show.


i hate damon from the 1st time i saw him. he is annoying as hell


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## Jeeps (Apr 12, 2012)

Got to give Mikie credit, he knows his stuff. He is good, REAL good. But that said, he takes the construction/renovation world out of context sometimes with his lavish, "TEAR it out and do it over my way ' !! ....

In all facets of living whether in be in a tract house or NYC multimillion $$$ condo, the bottom line is, it is always about the MONEY. ..

Not everyone has the resources for such lavish repairs so they have to make reasonable and practical repairs for the shoddy work found it their homes. In the building trades there are repairs that can be done sensibly, and within tight budget restraints that satisfy the AHJ and the HO....

As I drive through my city with a population of just over 300,000 people and see the natural decline of the 10-20 year buildings for lack of maintenance due to tight money supplies, Mikies show becomes even more unrealistic to me. jmo


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

shumakerscott said:


> I watch these shows all the time. I look for ideas I could use. It really makes me wonder what Mike would have done with my old house:laughing:. dorf dude...


 What you have done with your home is nothing short of spectacular and Holmes couldn't touch your work.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

jules4 said:


> I'd bet dollars to donuts that flip's mother-tongue is Mandarin or the like. Chinese-speakers always have a hard time dealing with English tenses (Chinese doesn't have any) and all our superfluous (to them) nouns and pronouns.
> 
> That said, I'd say flip's doing a good job - the important bits are there so I have no trouble figuring out what he/she means (although that might be because I'm fluent in Chinglish :biggrin: ).


 Flip is a spammer. He came back later and added an ad to his post. Common trick. Mods only check new posts. So if they add spam later, it may not get caught for a while.


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