# Rot in bottom door studs/plate



## CrazyHorse123 (Aug 3, 2014)

Hi,

I have an extruded 4 season porch in Minnesota. I removed a door frame repair from a prior owner and noticed fairly significant rot in the corner jack/king studs, and bottom wall plate. I dug out the rot and attached a picture. 2" away from the king stud is another king stud for a window opening, no rot on that one. Door is Marvin.

There is a lot of water coming off the roof during rain and snow melt (the roof angles inward, and no gutters). Over the course of the 14 years since the porch was built, it beat down the door frame and hence the problem.

Any repair ideas without ripping everything apart, I.E. I would prefer not to have to rip out the deck to get to the underlayment sheathing beneath the deck support and porch support frame. I.E. letting it dry out for a few weeks, then fixing? Is that feasible?

After the fix, I am going to add a storm door and gutters. 

Any help appreciated.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Waiting for Joe to come in and rail against the design.....


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Storm door and gutters won't fix this potential. Post up a picture from further back.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

And would you blame me? 
Not seeing much done right on this one.
Wrong flashing material. Looks like galvanized. Steel or aluminum can not be in direct contact with pressure treated wood.
Flashing not ran up the wall high enough.
Door opening not flashed.
No sill pan under the door.
Deck built to close to the threshold.
No support hard up against the over hang under the threshold.
Once that doors out most likely your going to see rot all the way to the sill plate.
The subflooring very likely going to be rotted out so that mean the floorings going to need to be removed in order to replace it.
I've seen this one building 101 mistake done hundreds of times. No excuse for it.
For an extra 1/2 hour of work and about $50.00 in materials it could have been done right the first time.
Now it's going to cost you far more time and money.
Google "Jam sill"
I'd also be ordering a whole new door.
This time order it with PVC jambs, vinyl brick moulding, if it's going to be a regular door not a slider order it with an adjustable sill.


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## CrazyHorse123 (Aug 3, 2014)

Another pic, there's a lot of runoff from the house, onto the porch roof, then off the angled side. I would suspect if there were eaves, this might not have happened. 

On the construction, the bottom wall plate is well above the deck and floor and I'm going to guess a layer or 2 of OSB sheathing was built up in between the floor support and bottom wall plate. It was not solid wood, I may be wrong, but it sure looked like rotted sheathing. I'm thinking of tearing some of the plywood off underneath to see how that looks, I am hoping just the sheathing is bad. Once again, I would have to tear the deck support out to replace that sheathing (that is probably somewhat rotted), and that makes it a fairly big project. I attached a blurry picture of underneath between the deck and porch.

I'm working on the window too, but no stud damage on that, that had some sort of Bondo repair. I didn't notice either of these until 2 years after I bought the house, the rot started in around the previous repairs, whoever fixed did good facade work to hide. I think water could enter unobstructed in the corner of that door.

Thanks again.


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## CrazyHorse123 (Aug 3, 2014)

Thanks Joe! 

I did pull the permits, porch was added in 1999, MN didn't add added flashing requirement to code until 2007/8, I think. At least that is what the window and door installers tell me.

"No support hard up against the over hang under the threshold", there is a small kickboard trim piece, I think, under there that has held up OK and I think is keeping the water out. I'll know more when I rip it out.

I think the initial failure was because of lack of maintenance on Marvin wood door frame where it met the threshold, and with no secondary protective flashing, it turned a fairly simple repair into not so simple. The previous owner did a quick fix, but probably, that fix, allowed more water in. My comment on the storm door/eaves, I meant that may have helped prevent the initial failure on the door frame to threshold joint that most like was not maintained, I can't blame Marvin though, wood needs maintenance.

Also, I figured the door was toast (shame to see it go to waste, the door is in good condition), I was contemplating fixing, but after I got in there and saw the damage, I want a more permanent repair.

I'm still concerned about the wall and support structure. I was going to let dry out for a few weeks, replace the trim stud and re-sister to the king. But the plate and supports, I don't think I can deal with that one without it being a big expensive project. The deck is not screwed, I would probably destroy it getting the boards up. The approach, I was going to take was to coat the studs liberally with a few coats of hardener, maybe Abatron, then insulate. Then caulk everywhere on the new door install and put a storm door in to keep water out of there. And subsequently inspect frequently to ensure no water gets in there. Other ideas?

This house is becoming a headache.


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## CrazyHorse123 (Aug 3, 2014)

OK, I took some plywood off the underside, joist supports look OK, at least I can tell they are not deteriorated on the outside.

Here's some more photos. 1st image shows joists (top to bottom, 1999 deck joist, sheathing with some moisture black nastiness; this is the location under the door leak btw, a new joist sistered to a "probably 1987 circa" deck joist). 2nd image shows porch was built upon an older deck (mesh screen directly below deck boards with dirt and debris captured), looks like plywood above that. Out of sight, out of mind.

The porch always has had a chemical smell (I always figured it was from a new tile floor and floor heat system that was put in prior to when we moved in). But now I wonder if it is those deck boards.


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## CrazyHorse123 (Aug 3, 2014)

OK, I am still trying to come up with an approach to fix this, I just don't want to put in a new door and have this happen again. The amount of rot is really bugging me, and I am questioning my initial thought that water downpour and splashing caused the Marvin door frame to fail. 

My new thought is water initially entered where the flashing was cut and bent under the sill. There's a little space between the deck boards and flashing. The deck boards were clogged when I moved in. I would think rain and snow melt had easy access to OSB sheathing and subfloor and the sheathing and subfloor got soaked, then the door frame and studs wicked the water up and rotted. Over 15 years, maybe it would look like this. Joe, you probably knew this and implied by your earlier post, agree?

A sill pan seems to protect a door frame and threshold failure, correct? 

But how can this be protected from water entry between the sill pan and flashing already in place?

I'm taking time to think this one out and fully understand options. Thanks for any help.


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