# Kitchenaid range fusing?



## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

We have a 10 year old Kitchenaid slidein range (YKESC307HB4) with a front electronic timer panel.

A few weeks back the hidden bake element died. After replacing it with a new one, it still didn't work. I traced the lack of 120 vac on that element leg (other leg was ok) to the timer panel -- just after the bake relay at the Molex plug. The printed circuit foil at the plug had ruptured when the element shorted out. It seems apparent that that piece of pc foil was an integrated type of fusible link. 

Rather than spend huge bucks on a whole new panel, I just soldered in a jumper wire across the burned out section. The stove seems to work well now. 

But I am bugged by the fact that there is no longer any protection in the event another short happens. 

What I am thinking on doing is to make up a fusible device (glass buss fuse?) and insert it at the Molex fitting. But I need to know what the proper type and size of fuse to put in there. The schematic makes no reference to any protection ..except to just replace the panel board! 

Fyi, the 2500 watt element measures at 27 ohms.

Appreciate some good feedback on this please.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If you could figure out the size of the wire needed for the fuse link, you could do that. Otherwise, you would have to get a small enough drill bit to drill the holes for the fuse holder. You could pick one up at Radio Shack, and try various sizes of fuses starting at the very smallest, then work up as the small one blows, until you get to the proper size. Could be a 1 amp, could be a .5 amp, you never know.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

I would think a starting point would be about 20 amps if: 2500w/120v, but if instead using 2500w/240v=10 amp fuse? Otherwise, trial and error would seem crazy as it would mean opening and closing the timer panel constantly to find the blow point, and at the higher end values it could take several events to finally trigger it. No, I am looking for some practical experience here -- thanks.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Not on the circuit board. The circuit would be lessor. Only the circuit back to the breaker would be 20 amps max if just for the circuit board, and not a Electric heating element. BTW, the proper way would be to purchase a new circuit board, because just adding the fuse as you think is the proper way, is not how to fix it.

You are welcome to do what you think is correct, but don't come back stating that your stove caught on fire, and you don't know why.


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

Usually when they have some type of current limiting device on the control it's to save the control...this control is nla so i wouldn't worry about it..if fuse hadn't popped, the relay contacts probably would have fused, resulting in runaway temp once bake unit was replaced-you would have smelled burned chicken/pizza??? if you want to do something;turn oven on and using an amp probe-see what current draw you're getting and fuse accordingly..


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Not on the circuit board. The circuit would be lessor. Only the circuit back to the breaker would be 20 amps max if just for the circuit board, and not a Electric heating element. BTW, the proper way would be to purchase a new circuit board, because just adding the fuse as you think is the proper way, is not how to fix it.
> 
> You are welcome to do what you think is correct, but don't come back stating that your stove caught on fire, and you don't know why.


I understand what you are trying to put across. But buying a new board ain't gonna happen as that cost would represent over 1/3 the price of a new range! I think it's rediculous to go to that expense due to a common faulty bake element :wink:


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

Jacques said:


> Usually when they have some type of current limiting device on the control it's to save the control...this control is nla so i wouldn't worry about it..if fuse hadn't popped, the relay contacts probably would have fused, resulting in runaway temp once bake unit was replaced-you would have smelled burned chicken/pizza??? if you want to do something;turn oven on and using an amp probe-see what current draw you're getting and fuse accordingly..


 
I tend to agree. One of the first items I looked at was the relay for bad contacts ..before detatching the board and turning it over to the pc side -- that's where the burnout was discovered.

As for run away temps, the maker says the panel is says it's smart enough to register an error fault for overtemp. But donno if it still works now with my patch. 

If I can get more feedback without having to run out and buy a one-time-use clampon ammeter that would be nice.




In older ranges (and some new basic units), there are standalone fuses that protect the stove's wiring, etc. So as an alternative route, it would be interesting to get some values of those fuses according to their applications. Even better would be some model numbers and a few schematics ?? :whistling2:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I figured up the cost when the circuit board went bad on my stove, and paying the $150 for a new board was cheaper, than going out and getting a new stove, same when the transmission went out on our wash machine, which was $180. It was a whole lot easier than trying to figure out what went bad, and then try to find the part. Sometimes you have to weigh the costs vs. trying to over engineer the situation.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Daler said:


> Fyi, the 2500 watt element measures at 27 ohms.
> 
> Appreciate some good feedback on this please.












There could be a slight variation of real world results due to a difference in rated voltage and actual supplied voltage.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> I figured up the cost when the circuit board went bad on my stove, and paying the $150 for a new board was cheaper, than going out and getting a new stove, same when the transmission went out on our wash machine, which was $180. It was a whole lot easier than trying to figure out what went bad, and then try to find the part. Sometimes you have to weigh the costs vs. trying to over engineer the situation.


 
Well, a little more expensive here in Canada ..distributor wants 5 bills and no warranty 'cause I ain't a local pro. This is a DIY forum and I tend to fix everything that has any possibility of being fixed by me -- usually I'm successful, with the right knowledge. 

However, I take your point and realize that there would be some wear and tear on the whole board over the years due to heat, so..


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

It is some times that you have to sit down and figure. The stove IS over 10 years old, so it has pretty much paid for itself twice over. I would keep an eye out on the sales, and depending on how close you are to the border, there is always the sales over here. I am just throwing this out to you. Depending on which board you have, it looks like it ranges anywhere from $200 to $307 U.S. http://www.repairclinic.com/Circuit-Board-Or-Timer-Parts?s=t-YKESC307HB4-==c13


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> It is some times that you have to sit down and figure. The stove IS over 10 years old, so it has pretty much paid for itself twice over. I would keep an eye out on the sales, and depending on how close you are to the border, there is always the sales over here. I am just throwing this out to you. Depending on which board you have, it looks like it ranges anywhere from $200 to $307 U.S. http://www.repairclinic.com/Circuit-Board-Or-Timer-Parts?s=t-YKESC307HB4-==c13


 
Thanks for the tip :thumbsup: My wife also suggested getting a new stove. But it still looks great and something as stupid as this problem is, I will keep trying to self-solve this problem for now.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You DO know that she probably has a model & color already picked out. You never know, you may come home from work someday and she may have a new oven in the old one's place.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> You DO know that she probably has a model & color already picked out. You never know, you may come home from work someday and she may have a new oven in the old one's place.


I very much doubt ..we're equal partners in crime :no:
We're also retirees and early adopters of austerity.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

nap said:


> There could be a slight variation of real world results due to a difference in rated voltage and actual supplied voltage.


 
I like it! ..but can the peak amperage be calculated in each leg of 120 vac into the 2500 watts, or must the full 240 vac be divided into the 2500 watts? -- there are two 120 vac legs going to the element. This may help in determining a fuse rating.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

you use the supplied voltage, which is 240 volts. 

-


> there are two 120 vac legs


While you can read 120 volts to ground to either leg, reading leg to leg (which is what is powering the heating element) you will see 240 volts. That is all that matters.

it should come out somewhere around 9 amps.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

nap said:


> you use the supplied voltage, which is 240 volts.
> 
> -While you can read 120 volts to ground to either leg, reading leg to leg (which is what is powering the heating element) you will see 240 volts. That is all that matters.
> 
> it should come out somewhere around 9 amps.


 
2400/240=10 amps ..give or take due to anomalies in rated element wattage and supply voltage.

Barring the use of a clamp-on ammeter (to see what the actual draw is), a good starting point may be a 10 amp fuse link for that 14 awg 120 vac wire at the electronic panel ?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

I would go up a step. Ambient temp is likely to come into play.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

nap said:


> I would go up a step. Ambient temp is likely to come into play.


..ok. howabout using a thermal fuse as seems it's common use on certain brands of ranges.


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## hardwareman (Oct 9, 2010)

I have serious doubts as what you are seeing is actually a fuse more likely it is just a circuit trace


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## hardwareman (Oct 9, 2010)

btw that board here would run you a little over $300.00


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

hardwareman said:


> I have serious doubts as what you are seeing is actually a fuse more likely it is just a circuit trace


So then, where how is this unit (see attached YKESC307 print) and it's pricey pc panel are protected? 

Because the pc foil ruptured between the bake relay and it's output molex plug, it seems logical that that hunk of solder streaked foil was the fusible link :wink:


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## hardwareman (Oct 9, 2010)

Daler said:


> So then, where how is this unit (see attached YKESC307 print) and it's pricey pc panel are protected?
> 
> Because the pc foil ruptured between the bake relay and it's output molex plug, it seems logical that that hunk of solder streaked foil was the fusible link :wink:


ok, how exactly did that "link" protect your pcb?? seems very illogical that a fusible link to protect your pcb would be part of your pcb since if that link blows you must replace the pcb anyway.

most if not all ranges built now have NO protection of any kind, the only protection I've ever seen on a free standing range was a few high end Kitchen Aid models that had a fusible link in the wiring harness. Take it for what its worth.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

hardwareman said:


> ok, how exactly did that "link" protect your pcb?? seems very illogical that a fusible link to protect your pcb would be part of your pcb since if that link blows you must replace the pcb anyway.
> 
> most if not all ranges built now have NO protection of any kind, the only protection I've ever seen on a free standing range was a few high end Kitchen Aid models that had a fusible link in the wiring harness. Take it for what its worth.


Another repair guy says it is common if not normal to replace the pc panel along with the bake element ..duh, that's a pretty expensive maintenance duo! 

So what is alluded to here is that the pc board itself is the range secondary protection?

It's really hard to believe that Kitchenaid would not protect some of its prime electrics via a fused device (like all those old stoves, etc). And yes, there is a large fusible link at the mains block in the rear. 

Even so I still think that hunk of pc foil was the weakest link and was protecting that circuit by the fact that it ruptured here (see attached -- sorry for the pq) :


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## hardwareman (Oct 9, 2010)

Daler said:


> Another repair guy says it is common if not normal to replace the pc panel along with the bake element ..duh, that's a pretty expensive maintenance duo!
> 
> :


I've been doing this a very long time, I've probably replaced hundreds of pcbs on ranges and probably thousands of heating elements, on RARE occasions when the bake element burns out it can take the pcb with it but that is very very rare and it is not common practice to replace the pcb with the element unless they are trying real hard to rake you over the coals


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

hardwareman said:


> I've been doing this a very long time, I've probably replaced hundreds of pcbs on ranges and probably thousands of heating elements, on RARE occasions when the bake element burns out it can take the pcb with it but that is very very rare and it is not common practice to replace the pcb with the element unless they are trying real hard to rake you over the coals


So what are we looking at here in the pic (besides my 'fix')? What are all those lines of solder for on the pc circuit foils? ..and why did it blow there instead of somewhere else, huh?


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## hardwareman (Oct 9, 2010)

its really hard to tell what I'm looking at there because of your fix but I can almost gaurantee it is not a fuse, a pix from the other side would be more telling


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

hardwareman said:


> its really hard to tell what I'm looking at there because of your fix but I can almost gaurantee it is not a fuse, a pix from the other side would be more telling


 
Here are a couple more pics: 

1) closeup of rear pc patch (pretty ugly solder job but best I could do under the circumstances -- mechanically ok though)
2) front side (4-wire molex connector for elements, on left) violet = outer broil, black=convection ring, blue=inner broil, red=bake(the one at issue)

Those wires seem awfully small guage to be carrying 20~30 amps ..?


..thanks for this help :thumbsup:


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

should have used a solid wire.


can you locate that in your schematic? Either my eyes are real fuzzy or the image is and I am having trouble reading anything well enough to find where in the schematic your situation is.


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## Daler (Sep 2, 2010)

now repaired -- thanks :thumbsup:


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