# "Locator Light" flickering on light switch



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

What type of lamps (bulbs) do you have on the fixture that these switches control. Lighted switches like you have often do not play well with CFL or LED lamps.

BTW, the light source in those switches is usually a neon lamp not LED.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Yes, those bulbs do flicker, especially once they get old, or as stated above, if you are using a CFL or LED bulb in the fixture. If you want a night light, and you do not have a "Switch leg", use one of these http://www.cableorganizer.com/leviton/decora-occupancy-switch-night-light.html Kind of pricey, but you do not have to worry about someone leaving the light on, when leaving the stairway area.


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## ferrugia (Feb 12, 2013)

rjniles said:


> What type of lamps (bulbs) do you have on the fixture that these switches control. Lighted switches like you have often do not play well with CFL or LED lamps.
> 
> BTW, the light source in those switches is usually a neon lamp not LED.


 
Thanks for the response. The strange thing is that the bulbs are just regular 60W bulbs, nothing fancy like LED lamps. This is just a plain-jane light fixture that these two switches control with old-school bulbs in it. The switch at the top of the stairs does not flicker, but the one at the bottom does.

Thanks for the clarification on the light source in the switch. I assumed LED but wasn't sure. Thanks.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Some actually are going to LED, due to they do not give off heat, and use less voltage when the lights are off, but the switch is lit.


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## ferrugia (Feb 12, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> Yes, those bulbs do flicker, especially once they get old, or as stated above, if you are using a CFL or LED bulb in the fixture. If you want a night light, and you do not have a "Switch leg", use one of these http://www.cableorganizer.com/leviton/decora-occupancy-switch-night-light.html Kind of pricey, but you do not have to worry about someone leaving the light on, when leaving the stairway area.


 
Thank you for the response as well. I think you are saying the same thing but just to be clear this is the "bulb" in/around the light switch that I'm referring to -- I'm NOT talking about a flickering coming from the lights/bulbs that these switches control.

This is not really used as a night-light so much as the fact that when it's pitch dark you can see where the switch for the light is.

The weird thing is that the light switch is not that old. Maybe 3 years old. Since the one at the top of the stairs doesn't flash though, and they must be on the same circuit since they control the same light, I guess my next step is to buy a new one this weekend and see if it fixed the problem when I use it as a replacement.

Thanks very much for the responses. Much apprecaited.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Again, regardless of the age of the switch, they go bad. I have seen electrical devices bad out of the box, and bad within a couple of months. Stuff is not made like it used to be, when made here in the U.S., where standards were higher, than those in Mexico & China, where the majority of stuff is manufactured these days.


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## ferrugia (Feb 12, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> Again, regardless of the age of the switch, they go bad. I have seen electrical devices bad out of the box, and bad within a couple of months. Stuff is not made like it used to be, when made here in the U.S., where standards were higher, than those in Mexico & China, where the majority of stuff is manufactured these days.


 
Ok, I understand and agree with you. Replacing the switch should be cake. Now the difficult talk will be trying to find the same one so it matches the rest of them in my house. When I get the switch off, is the manufacturer and part # usually there and visible? Just trying to think ahead on what the best way to match this will be. I didn't do the initial installation a few years back, the people that we bought the house from did and are long gone (so I can't ask them). Thanks again.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Take the old one with you. You could also check online through Amazon.com to see if they have something close to it, if you can not find at your local Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace Hardware.

With Leviton & Pass & Seymour being the two main brands, you are usually stuck with only certain styles, and most stores will either carry the Decora in either residential or Commercial, and same for the standard lever switch.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

ferrugia said:


> Now the difficult talk will be trying to find the same one so it matches the rest of them in my house. When I get the switch off, is the manufacturer and part # usually there and visible? Just trying to think ahead on what the best way to match this will be.


I don't think you REALLY want to buy the same brand, especially if this one isn't very old- once burned twice shy as they say!
I have one of those switches and in a few months or less it's little light started flickering, they are junk. Get a regular switch and a plug-in nightlight which is real easy to replace the little bulb for.
Every time you replace a wall switch or outlet you have to pull all the wires out of the cramped little box with it, do that a few times and you weaken the wires from bending them back and forth, you already don't know how MANY times that switch had been previously replaced.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

It is normal for neon indicator lamps to flicker a little,
They usually use very low currents, usually 500 micro amps.
So any leakage in the circuit will induce a small voltage
that will cause the neon to flicker.


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## ferrugia (Feb 12, 2013)

Good news, I got it working tonight with a new 3-way lighted switch that I picked up at Home Depot.

I was fortunate in that Home Depot had the same one (or very similar) made by Leviton so it matches the existing ones I already have in my house that are working -- I didn't want to replace them all or have mismatches. Ya, I can see that it's assembled in Mexico and I would rather have German, but it was $7 and the problem is solved so I'm happy. If these keep breaking I will switch to something else next time. Glad not to have that annoying flickering in the dark anymore.

Re-wiring the 3-way switch was easy, there are Youtube videos that make it so simple. It look less than 5 minutes. Very easy DIY.

Thanks to everyone who contributed input. I hope this can help someone else in the future.


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## Tom153 (Nov 10, 2016)

I have a similar problem. I have a hall light that was an old screw in CFL. The two switches have a neon light in them that illuminates when the hall light is off. No flicker in the neon illuminated switches. Then I changed out the old light fixture with a Commercial Electric Edge-Lit LED flushmount. The light works great, but now the neon lights in the switches flicker. I'm just wondering why they flicker and if it is a fault condition that needs to be corrected.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Some types of bulbs/switchs with electronics in them
( CFL & LED ) will allow very small currents to pass
This is what causes the flickering.


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## Tom153 (Nov 10, 2016)

Ok, makes sense do you know of any replacement switch that is piloted that will not flicker? The flicker is annoying. I see Leviton has some newer switches with an LED pilot light, instead of a neon pilot light; do you know if they avoid the flicker problem?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

No, it is not a fault condition (wires or metal parts touching where they should not causing current to flow where or when it should not).

The locator light or toggle light in a switch relies on the light fixture or other device controlled by the switch to complete a series circuit and pass current to make that little light glow. When the switch is flipped "on" the locator light is bypassed.

Some tiny lamps, notably tiny neon lamps, used as locator lights are manufactured to such loose tolerances that some in a batch may flicker under the same conditions that others in the batch do not flicker. So it is a matter of luck whether the switch you buy will flicker or not.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Quick question.... sorry no advice or conclusion... I've never used/installed one.

Question.... do those illuminating/ locator switches require a neutral in the box.?

(Sounds like a good idea... but I don't want flickering junk either)

TIA


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Most locator switches do not need a neutral. These are more likely to flicker notably when the light being controlled is of very low wattage.

They also make illuminated toggle switches that do use a neutral. These are primarily used to glow when the light or device being controlled is "on" (used as an "in use" light) or to glow all of the time. Some can also be connected up with no neutral to glow only when the device being controlled is "off".

None of the above are guaranteed not to flicker due to manufacturing tolerances mentioned earlier or as they age.


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## Tom153 (Nov 10, 2016)

Do you know if the newer LED type locator lights are any better, or higher amp switches. I know Leviton has a note posted along with their 15 amp switch product with a neon locator light (5613-2I) that with some CFL or LED lights they might flicker, so they are well aware of the "defect". However, product (5649-2W) and the other 20 amp switches don't have such a note.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Usually it is the LED or CFL that flickers not he switch.


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## freeagent (Nov 11, 2011)

I have a Levitron dimmer switch that controls a singe 60W incandescent bulb that has a locator light. Just happens that today, before reading this thread, I noticed it was flickering. It is a model no longer made and goes 100% off when the slider is pushed as far as it can go. It also has an on/off switch. 

What I found, was that if the slider was not quite in the totally off position, the locator bulb flickered more. Only very slightly if switch and slider totally off.


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## Tom153 (Nov 10, 2016)

Asking Home Depot and Leviton, if they make any switch with a locator light, neon or LED that do not flicker; HD suggested that any installation with LED fixture could cause the locator light to flicker. The recommendation is to replace with a non-locator light type switch. Leviton didn't reply, but all their 15 amp locator Decor switches now carry a note that some CFL and LED luminaries can cause flickering of the locator light.

Since it is just an annoyance, having flickering lights, I'll wait awhile, see if Leviton or Luton or someone else figures out a way to make a switch with a locator feature work well with any LED type light fixture/bulb. Maybe in a few years they will have it figure out. If not, I'll just replace with a non illuminated switch when the annoyance factor gets too much for me, or I decide to sell my house.:wink2:


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Those locator lights switches require a small current to flow through the load to light them. They have no neutral connection. That small current is a non issue for incandescents. CFLs and LED being such low power users will actually light(flicker) from that low current.
I don't know if they make them but you would need a switch with a neutral connection.


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