# '03 Kia Rio won't run on its own



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again? 

Buy American, built and owned by Americans.

Mark


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

Jackofall1 said:


> My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?
> 
> Buy American, built and owned by Americans.
> 
> Mark


'Kinda' cruel reply for a guy just asking for help, but I tend to agree with your last comment..


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

DoctorWho said:


> The idle control valve seems to work fine when out on the road so I don't think it would be bad just at startup would it? Not sure what else to look at here.


I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Doc---Get a computer analyzer to check that thing---some auto parts stores will provide that service.

I'm no mechanic---however it sounds like you need to retrain the computer or replace it.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Jackofall1 said:


> My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?
> 
> Buy American, built and owned by Americans.
> 
> Mark


Are you kidding me! I currently own a 2006 Dodge, a 2008 Chrysler, and a 1998 Ford and I can't tell you how much time I've wasted sitting in the dealer for this recall, and that warranty issue. That's only the problems they are willing to stand behind and own up to. 

I realize that being from Michigan this is probably a touchy subject for you, but if you aren't going to at least pretend to help, why bother. I seriously doubt you've convinced the OP to go trade in his Rio for a 1997 Exploder


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?
> 
> Buy American, built and owned by Americans.
> 
> Mark


1983 Chevy Monte Carlo
1978 Ford F150
1977 Ford F250 Tow Truck
1990 Ford E150 Conv. Van
1982 Ford Mustang
2008 Ford Taurus AWD
2009 Ford Ranger XLT
1977 Dodge W300 Power Wagon Tow Truck
1988 Mercury Grand Marquis

That's just what's American that I own at the moment, owned dozens others in past. BTW, in my extensive experience, no brand is better than any other. Every engine, every chassis, every model has its own quirks that make it legendary for one reason and notorious for another. Just because I'm a noob on this forum does not mean I am a noob when it comes to auto repair and brand experience.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post


Think I'm going to have to, can't find any other good reason for its bad behavior!



oh'mike said:


> Doc---Get a computer analyzer to check that thing---some auto parts stores will provide that service. I'm no mechanic---however it sounds like you need to retrain the computer or replace it.


Pulled my own codes and nothing at the moment, occasionally trips the MAF sensor code, but resetting takes care of it for another 10k miles before it comes on again.

Anyways, thanks guys, just wanted to bounce my symptoms off your heads, see if you thought like I did.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Hey Doc, sorry for boorish attitude, it is just, out of all the manufacturers out there Kia is one that I have the most trouble with.

You said that you hadn't driven the car for 15 mths, and there are MAF codes occassionally, could a spider or rodent have gotten to the MAF and either left some debris or web on or near the MAF grid.


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## mustangmike3789 (Apr 10, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post


 yep, sounds like a dirty or bad IAC. "works kind of like a choke", pushes extra air into the motor at idle when the throttle blade is closed.


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## Marty1Mc (Mar 19, 2011)

Mr Chips said:


> Are you kidding me! I currently own a 2006 Dodge, a 2008 Chrysler, and a 1998 Ford and I can't tell you how much time I've wasted sitting in the dealer for this recall, and that warranty issue. That's only the problems they are willing to stand behind and own up to.


Exactly... I am from a steel town and was always a "Buy American" fan. However, after owning several mistakes by Detroit and finding the lack of support, I stopped. 

Besides, there is a very good chance that "American" 97 Ford was made in Canada. And no, Canada is not America. My wife's 2005 Toyota Camry is made in America with 76% content.


OP, I would first check the connections for the TPS (throttle position), IAC, MAF, and cam angle sensors. Sitting that long connectors can get very corroded. That will cause all kinds of issues. Put some di-electric grease on them as well. 

Also, have you checked your fuel?


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Marty1Mc said:


> Exactly... I am from a steel town and was always a "Buy American" fan. However, after owning several mistakes by Detroit and finding the lack of support, I stopped.
> 
> Besides, there is a very good chance that "American" 97 Ford was made in Canada. And no, Canada is not America. My wife's 2005 Toyota Camry is made in America with 76% content.
> 
> ...


Yep and 100% of the profit from the purchase is returned to JAPAN, and the 97 Ford was built right in MI. And if you have ever seen how they arrive at 76% content you may change that statement to. They send modules over in shipping containers, at a single part to the mod and then it qualifies for built in the USA. Never owned one never will, but you keep driving that rice burner, thats called free enterprise, maybe you can offer your neighbor a ride to the welfare line some day.

Mark


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## Marty1Mc (Mar 19, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> Yep and 100% of the profit from the purchase is returned to JAPAN, and the 97 Ford was built right in MI. And if you have ever seen how they arrive at 76% content you may change that statement to. They send modules over in shipping containers, at a single part to the mod and then it qualifies for built in the USA. Never owned one never will, but you keep driving that rice burner, thats called free enterprise, maybe you can offer your neighbor a ride to the welfare line some day.
> 
> Mark


I understand where you are coming from. Like I said, I too was a buy American nut and still am, just not cars. I even found American made socks at Walmart and buy those. 

It is called free enterprise. But, you are directing your anger at the consumer and not where it truly belongs, the car companies themselves. I have a Dodge Ram Van with 66k miles and the tranny slips when it's cold. My neighbor just replaced the engine on his 2001 blazer and now has a check engine light that won't go out. The dealer can't fix it and the emissions inspector told him he sees this all the time. "Just pay $200 each year for a tune-up, get the waiver, because I haven't seen one of them repaired." Rick Wagoner stood at a press conference and stated "We took our eye of the ball on quality." He should have immediately resigned as well instead of being fired later.

You cannot expect the public to invest in questionable quality and design. That is welfare of a different kind, not to mention the corporate welfare the US taxpayer just gave GM and Chrysler...

I will buy a quality product, I prefer it to be American. If not, I will try to buy one that is made in the USA. As for content, 60% of a vehicles cost is in the engine and transmission. Toyota, Honda and others have foundries here in the US to do that. They employ American workers, not UAW and I am ok with that too. Much of the profit has gone back into the US as well. There are design centers in California, engine plants in Missouri and Ohio, assembly plants in Tn and others. I am ok with the profit going wherever, it is a small portion of the cash spent to purchase the car. I certainly am not worried about executive bonuses. Japanese cars made in the USA is not a bad thing.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> Hey Doc, sorry for boorish attitude, it is just, out of all the manufacturers out there Kia is one that I have the most trouble with.
> 
> You said that you hadn't driven the car for 15 mths, and there are MAF codes occassionally, could a spider or rodent have gotten to the MAF and either left some debris or web on or near the MAF grid.


Hey no harm no foul, just wanted to make it clear that I'm a Ford guy too!:furious: only reason I even bought Kia was because back then they gave me financing when Ford said no.

Anyway, air box and MAF are clean as a whistle, except for the huge-ass wolf spider I found, but it was dead. Started pulling off the IAC valve but got too hot out already! I can't take the heat too well, have to wait till tonight or early AM tomorrow.
Some of the fuel is still old but about 3/4 of the tank is fresh premium gas and I had used Stabil while it was sitting too.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Well, ISC valve was the problem guys, of course you have to take half the damn intake apart to reach it but I got to it alright, then broke it getting it off! After looking at it, it was seized with carbon, the little metal flap inside was stuck with just the tiniest opening visible, I'm guessing it stuck shut at the car's normal "hot" operating idle speed, so that's why it acted like it was being choked at cold startup then would idle okay once warmed up.
Never seen such a stupid way to bolt one of these to the throttlebody, one bolt (the hard one to reach of course) was so close to the plastic housing that you couldn't fit a socket over it, not even a thin-wall socket. A box end wrench would've worked but it was at such a dumb position that I couldn't get any leverage, the bolt has a philips head, so I guess they think we're supposed to break it loose with a screwdriver or impact driver? Well I would have had there been more than 2 inches clearance in front of the bolt!, god I hate engineers!
Anyways, I wanted to test to make sure it was the issue so I used about 1/2 a can of carb cleaner on it and carefully super-glued the broken bits back together and bolted her back, wow, car ran like freaking new for first time in a long time, wish I'd got off my butt and done this ages ago! Drove it around a little and could tell when the glue gave way cuz CEL came on and ran like crap, but I have a brand new one coming! Thanks for all your input guys!


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## Marty1Mc (Mar 19, 2011)

Good to see! Carbon build up on the TB's and IAC can create havoc. Glad to see it was something relatively simple.


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