# Rebuild concrete steps leading to basement



## gruntman

The situation: There is a door that exits the basement of our house. After the door opens there is a small 3x3 landing and 3 steps that head upwards and exit onto the yard. There is a drain in the landing at the bottom of the steps just outside the door (it looks to be filled with gravel). The steps are borderd by a box of cynderblocks that are covered with cement. The steps are made of cynderblocks covered with cement as well. 

The problem: The yard gets a lot of shade and there is mold and moss all over the steps. The concrete on the steps is breaking apart revealing the cynderblocks which are facing upwards so that stuff is falling in the open parts of the blocks. The landing/floor where you step when you walk out the basement door is also covered in moss and mold and looks very pitted. 

It would be easy to break apart the old concrete and put down some quickcrete but I dont want to cause more of a problem. I think the first step is to rent a powerwasher and clean it up but Im not sure what I should do after that. Any suggestions?


----------



## concretemasonry

First - Cleaning the mess will give you a chance to see what you are facing.

The block can easily be capped with 2" (1 5/8" actual) or 4" (3 5/8" actual) high solid units mortared in place.

It sounds like a general drainage problem with a drain in the lower landing. You should find out if there is a pipe in the drain for drainage or just a rock/gravel bed.

Dick


----------



## gruntman

Thats a great idea. Is this something you can get at a place like home depot or is it more specialized? And is there something that can be done about the moss beside pressure washing? 

I have dug a little bit and I think it is just gravel. The drain hole has a small metal grate over the top of it. It looks like the edges where the grate sits are crumbling apart.


----------



## handy man88

gruntman said:


> Thats a great idea. Is this something you can get at a place like home depot or is it more specialized? And is there something that can be done about the moss beside pressure washing?
> 
> I have dug a little bit and I think it is just gravel. The drain hole has a small metal grate over the top of it. It looks like the edges where the grate sits are crumbling apart.


Instead of pressure washing, which could/would blow out all the concrete, you can buy a gallon of deck cleaner and spray it on. Then, just a brush and scrub. Then, hose off.

Bleach, water, and detergent combo would work also.


----------



## gruntman

Im going to get a picture of it, but the person who tried to repair this before me tried to create a cap over the cinderblocks that box in the stairs by troweling on the concrete. It looks like they used some type of wooden form but it looks sloppy (has a nail sticking in it). I suppose that could be broken up and a new solid cap could be placed over it? is that the idea?


----------



## concretemasonry

gruntma -

Tat is way it sould have been built AND the way it should have been repaired.

just a tip - do not make the cap dead flat. Give it a very slight slope to shed water and possibly oversize to let the water drip off on the low side.


----------



## gruntman

Here are the pictures of the staircase. I removed some of the cement that was loose and I found cinderblock beneath. It looks like they covered the top of the blocks with cement to make the stairs. I will clean it as recommended. Here are the questions I would like to ask the group:

1) Since the blocks seem to have shifted should I try to fix them (it might mean breaking them up and putting in new ones) or shoud l just mortar a cap in place? 
2) Is there a website where I can learn more about how to do this?


----------



## gruntman

*updated photo*

This is what I have done so far. Once I started knocking off the old concrete I was committed. Ran into a patch of quickcrete or something similar but just worked on it for a while with a masons chisel and hammer.

1) Should I just cap the hole thing off with standard 2 inch high caps from HD or cap the front with the standard caps (because it is a step) but use more decorative caps with a rough face on one side (like you might use to cap off a wall) for the sides. If this will look stupid please let me know. 

2) Should I install a one-piece slab for the stairs? 

3) once I finish the job shoud I cover the cinders with some type of sealant to prevent moisture from seeping into that space?

Thanks fof the tips.


----------



## gruntman

*need advice - steps*

I have reached a point where I have to make a decision on the steps. They are made of cinder blocks and are not the same size. The have shifted over the years. Do I remove them with a sledge hammer and start over? What would you cover the steps with? (I live in the NE where it snows alot).


----------



## handy man88

gruntman said:


> I have reached a point where I have to make a decision on the steps. They are made of cinder blocks and are not the same size. The have shifted over the years. Do I remove them with a sledge hammer and start over? What would you cover the steps with? (I live in the NE where it snows alot).


I think you can keep the foundation supports, but may want to insert rebar and pour concrete inside the holes. Once that is done, you can put slate over it as trim. If you don't like the look of the cinderblocks, you can use retaining wall blocks.

For the steps themselves, I would make a mold for the stairs, insert rebar, pour concrete, and then put slate over it.


----------



## Willie T

Bluestone slabs make very effective and attractive step surfaces.


----------



## gruntman

OK -those steps are great. I just repointed my front porch and it came out nothing like that. 

Here are some pictures of the steps. I think these really show the problem. The cinder blocks are not level and I think if I pulled really hard they would come out. The flat parts of the cinder blocks (where you step) are not even the same size on the same step. The last guy who repaired this just laid out a bunch of concrete on top of it.


----------



## Willie T

Now that you're this far, just knock those 12 blocks (and whatever's under them) outta there, simply put up two form boards,and just pour two new steps.


----------



## gruntman

Never built steps before but I'll give it a try. I'll try top find a DIY thread on building forms.


----------



## gma2rjc

Once you're done, you might be able to prevent the moss from building-up again by thinning the canopy of the trees shading the steps.


----------



## gruntman

I found a link that I think will help me build this. 
http://www.handymanclub.com/Projects/Project.aspx?id=42638

Based on this article, I can measure and cut some braces that fit between the walls and then fill them in. I have a couple of things to figure out. Sorry if these are stupid questions. 

1) the floor where the drain is located at the bottom of the steps feels loose. If tap it with a hammer it feels like it is cracked and thin. Should I just replace the whole thing while Im at it and make a new floor?

2) how thick do I need to make the concrete in the steps? Do I fill some in with dirt and rocks first? 

http://www.handymanclub.com/Projects/Project.aspx?id=42638


----------



## Willie T

gruntman said:


> I found a link that I think will help me build this.
> http://www.handymanclub.com/Projects/Project.aspx?id=42638
> 
> Based on this article, I can measure and cut some braces that fit between the walls and then fill them in. I have a couple of things to figure out. Sorry if these are stupid questions.
> 
> 1) the floor where the drain is located at the bottom of the steps feels loose. If tap it with a hammer it feels like it is cracked and thin. Should I just replace the whole thing while Im at it and make a new floor?
> 
> 2) how thick do I need to make the concrete in the steps? Do I fill some in with dirt and rocks first?


Here's what it will look like. Easiest form job you'll ever do. The top one is beveled on the bottom edge so you can get a trowel in there to finish the bottom step. Yes, you can fill some of it up with dirt to save on concrete. Throw some rebar in to tie top and bottom together.

I deliberately used a brick background so you could follow the step surface lines as they relate to one another.

Start pouring from the bottom, up. Use very stiff mud. It will set a bit and support the second step a lot better than it looks like it would.

If you decide to make a new floor, do it a few days before you put the forms in for the steps.


----------



## gruntman

Thanks!- that diagram makes it very clear. I'll do it and post the pictures when Im done.


----------



## gruntman

Willie T said:


> Now that you're this far, just knock those 12 blocks (and whatever's under them) outta there, simply put up two form boards,and just pour two new steps.


I took out the blocks - I pulled them out by hand. Below the highest set of blocks I found dirt and rocks. Below the lower set of blocks I found a row of different shaped blocks that had been buried.


----------



## gruntman

How do you attach the form boards to the walls securely so that they dont move when you pour the concrete?


----------



## handy man88

gruntman said:


> How do you attach the form boards to the walls securely so that they dont move when you pour the concrete?


Concrete anchors....basically tapered nails.


----------



## gruntman

Thanks - got them.

Started on the floor - found that chipmunks had dug under it. The drain led to a big rock just a few inches below the surface. The walls of the drain were broken cinderblock (no wonder it didnt drain). Can anyone tell me how to build one of these drains? I imagine I need to build that first and then do my floor.


----------



## Ron6519

gruntman said:


> Thanks - got them.
> 
> Started on the floor - found that chipmunks had dug under it. The drain led to a big rock just a few inches below the surface. The walls of the drain were broken cinderblock (no wonder it didnt drain). Can anyone tell me how to build one of these drains? I imagine I need to build that first and then do my floor.


 The only option you really have is a drywell under the drain unless you're going to trench down 2-3 feet and lay pipe to a drywell away from the house.
Might be easier to put a canopy over the door to minimize water in the landing. You might enclose the whole staircase if wind driven rain would be an issue.
Ron


----------



## gruntman

To make the drain I dug a hole about 2 feet wide and 3 feet deep, filled the bottom with crushed rock, took a HD bucket and cut a hole in the botton and drilled holes in the sides. Placed the bucket in the hole and then filled in around it with more crushed rock. Threw a bunch of bigger rocks in, finished the floor off with concrete and made an opening for my drain right over the bucket. 

I made my stairs and they came out nice except for one thing - I have a few air pockets next to the risers and there are some craters Can I trowel in some concrete mix to fill those spaces?


----------



## jomama45

gruntman said:


> I made my stairs and they came out nice except for one thing - I have a few air pockets next to the risers and there are some craters Can I trowel in some concrete mix to fill those spaces?


Yes, use the same concrete as you poured the steps with & just sift some of the fines to patch in. The sooner you do it (when the steps are still green & clean) the better it will last & look.


----------



## gma2rjc

Would he need to use a bonding agent in the airpockets before filling them with cement?


----------



## gruntman

This is how it came out. Thanks to everyone who helped me with this project!


----------



## gma2rjc

Nice job, it looks great.


----------



## Scuba_Dave

That was a quick year, nice job
Did you sign & date it?
I always date my concrete work


----------



## gruntman

Thanks, wow that took me a year you are right! Yes, signed and dated it on the bottom step.


----------



## stadry

you did make certain the drain worked 1st, right ? ? ? 

now to finish the job, excavate the exterior wall sides & coat them w/thoroseal ( or similar product ),,, better yet, use an asphaltic-based roofing cement & cover the trowel'd on coating w/miradrai,,, that will prevent moisture/water/soil acids from infiltrating the wall or attacking the cement's lime &, eventually, rotting the block.

NEVER sign your work so you can always blame someone else :laughing:


----------



## handy man88

gruntman said:


> Thanks, wow that took me a year you are right! Yes, signed and dated it on the bottom step.


How does the water drain again? Is it piped out?

If not, what do you do when it rains and the bottom fills up with water?


----------



## gruntman

I dug a hole about 3 feet deep and filled it with crushed stone. It never floods in the stairwell - just rainwater which the drain seems to handle well. The old one wasnt built correctly - the water just drained into a hole with about 2 inches of rock and then dirt (it was all for show). Installling a pipe to bring the water away from the house might have been a good idea but I think given the amount of water I get I dont think I needed it for this job.


----------

