# How to keep paint on shelves/cabinet doors from sticking.. and general stuff..



## scyarch (Oct 20, 2011)

So, I'm somewhat new to this, somewhat old. I've been working for the greater part of the last two decades working for my parents, painting and remodeling and repairing- general maintenance on our rental properties. 

That being said- I know the basics, and am well adept at most of them- sand down glossy surfaces to rough them up to get good paint adhesion of primers and final coats, even better sanding jobs on oil based enamels. Patching and all that is not much of an issue, and when it comes to most sanding, we have had tendencies to go with 60 or 80 grits for starters and then 150 for most finishing coats. These are _not_ high end apartments but they aren't cheapest of cheap either- we are working on bringing the quality up to raise the rents to what they should be in today's market after a lack of rental increases over the last decade .

My question is this- we've used many paints over the years, and for the most part been sticking with Behr, however I think they changed their formulas or something recently, that or I've seen the light and error of my ways, and am looking for better paint. Lately, this Behr seems to peel and not last like it's anyone's business... And I've gotten fed up with the sticky cabinet and door issue. I've read that it's best to use some harder drying paint like an Alkyd paint, however I also seem to recall those are oil based- and I think as of last year or something, they were banned here in California. 

Any recommendations on good quality, (not obscenely expensive but best bang for the buck over Behr) paint and ways to avoid the sticky shelf and cabinet/door conundrum? I've been considering checking out SW again, but am open to other potential brands as well. Both for primers and top coats, and I believe it would be best to stick with one brand throughout the process, unless there is a better sealer brand to pair with a better top coat brand.

Any advice?


(I'd also ask about ways to avoid paint buildup on 80 and 150 grit sandpaper when sanding down the shelves on a power sander, but I think that is just a fact of life with some cabinets that have more coats of paint than I do years of age- these apartments are near 50 years old, for the most part; as well as just a buildup of heat, letting the sander do too much work in one spot, but I wasn't sure if there was an easier way- short of taking a heat gun to the whole thing.. but I guess, one thing at a time- the sticky paint issue is a pressing matter with some upcoming units and new homes we are building)

***EDIT: We've been using Kilz for the primer, their gold one, the grade up from their standard, I believe, but lately, haven't been too happy with it either, so whatever is best in your opinions, greatly appreciated..****


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

For your rentals you might look at the contractor grades of either SW or Ben Moore paints. I believe you can get Kelly Moore where you are too. The contractor grades of any of them still exceed BEHRly paint in quality and will save you $10 a gallon or so. And don't be afraid to ask for a discount. Paint stores know they have to stay competitive. 

I know the Ben Moore contractor grade the best. It used to be called Super Spec but I think it is now Ultra Spec. It does not come in as many sheens---only flat, eggshell and semi-gloss as I remember---and comes only in gallons, not quarts. It does not have the high acrylic content that top of the line paints have so may not be as colorfast and washable. Non issues for rentals I assume. I have used it on many residential and commercial projects as well and especially when getting homes ready for sale. It is fine in homes with adults but probably not my first choice in homes with kids and handprints that need to be washed. I had no qualms using it but would have never tolerated BEHRly. 

Pro Mar is the SW contractor grade and I used it or Super Spec alot for discriminating gallery clients that are about as picky as they come. I never had any complaints and we used it because we had to paint over patched nail, frame hanger and other fastener repairs every month as exhibits rotated. We could not justify high end paints. 

If you are painting over oil finishes alkyd primers were the great equalizers. If you cannot get them easily anymore in California then use a water-based bonding primer/enamel underlay for cabinets and so forth. I have not used them but there are some water-based formulas that leave an alkyd film now too. 

Of course no paint will stick for long if you do not prep. Make sure you clean kitchen cabinets of all dirt and grease and scruff up the surface with fine grit--100 or 120--sandpaper to help adhesion. I have had some kitchens so greasy I turned to auto store detergents like Purple Power or something like Simple Green to get through the muck. Make sure to rinse. TSP (its actually faux TSP) is still a good choice for most applications. 

Remember latex acrylic products with any sheen take 30 days to cure. 

Melamine paints are becoming more popular and yield a high gloss finish. They are also a good choice for painting over laminates. They are relatively expensive and while self-leveling they tend to chip easily so are probably not the best choice for rental properties. It used to be you could only get them in factory colors but some real paint companies now have tint bases.

Definitely buy paint store and not box store paint. The latter will cost you more in the long run.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Also, ditch the Kilz and get a good primer at a real paint store where you get quality paint

Kilz primer + Behr paint = disaster:whistling2:

I will say that the original oil Kilz USED to work well, have not used it recently


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

What you're concerned about is called "blocking", the ability of latex paint to not have things stick to it or it to itself, as in cabinet doors. You need a paint with good blocking ability, that's your question. I can't recommend an apartment grade product, but I know that waterborne products (made with water, but differs from water based) have good blocking. If you can find a cheap waterborne enamel, that's what you need.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

I think that you would be best served by not going cheap in the enamel. Your time is important too- you want something that works well, easy to apply and does the job. 
Ace carries a paint called Cabinet Coat- I hear it rocks. BM's Advance is great, but recoat time is long. SW ProClassic waterborne semi is a good choice. There are others.

Also here's a little trick. very lightly dust a sticking area with baby powder... works like a charm..


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

What you're concerned about is called "blocking", the ability of latex paint to not have things stick to it or it to itself, as in cabinet doors. 


Latex wall and trim paints have this tendency to block, especially with the reformulations (due to decreased VOC's) from solvent removal from products. VOC's are NOT just limited in California, but across the country in various states. A commercial grade paint will not do much better. The best product to use, if you are going to use a latex, would be a porch and floor grade paint, or an industrial waterborne product. Otherwise, alkyds are the best choice, as they do not block. If there is latex paint already applied, a waterborne clear varnish may help eliminate the blocking condition.


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## bubbler (Oct 18, 2010)

No one recommended contact paper? That is what I put on all my painted wooden shelves. Any stickiness is just between the contact paper and paint, so it actually works to my benefit because it keeps the paper in place.

A good vinyl contact "paper" will stand up to abuse and washing with a sponge and chemicals too.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Contact paper AAArrghh! Ever tried to remove that crap?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Brushjockey said:


> Contact paper AAArrghh! Ever tried to remove that crap?[/quote]
> 
> 
> 
> :furious: nasty stuff indeed


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

FWIW, I'm doing some work on my sons home and for the windows, the S-W guy recommended their SOLO line as it is supposed to be resistant to blocking. I used S-W ProCoat on my kitchen cabinets last fall and haven't had any noticeable blocking with it. I did find it to be pretty technique sensitive in application and for about the same money, their All Surface enamel seems much more application friendly. I haven't used that anywhere blocking could be an issue so I really can't speak to that. Since you are doing several rental units, you may be able to get contractor pricing from S-W. The place I used to work at used S-W ProMar 200 which, IMO, applied and performed very well and the contractor price is very close to what Home Depot gets for Behr. I've just used Behr exterior and haven't seen blocking issues but coverage with any color requiring their Deep or Ultra Deep Bases was virtually non-existant. I have some Behr maroon which takes up to about 5 coats to get decent coverage over white primer. I also have some Sailcloth color in the same Behr line which will cover the maroon in two coats.
As far as primer goes, I have been using Glidden Gripper for years but on my sons house we are giving the Zinsser 1 2 3 a shot. For the windows of his I just did, I used S-W Oil base primer as the windows were old, cracked, bare wood and I had just reglazed them with DAP33. That stuff needs oil below and over it to keep it from drying up.


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

One big reason you are having booking and blocking issues is that companies (Especially in SOCAL) have had to reduce the coalescing solvents in their acrylic enamels to comply with VOC regulations. The resulting product is one that has an extended curing time.

Stay away from zero-VOC paints if you can. Several manufactures offer a waterborne alkyd series, known as hybrids. These apply like a water-base coating, but when the water flashes off, the film is an alkyd film with all the hardness, sandability, etc. of an alkyd. Dunn-Edwards and ICI both have good ones. Kelly-Moore is only in Northern CA or at some dealers.


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## John @ OHFS (Jun 26, 2012)

I had success with BIN primer sprayed on with an HVLP gun and finished it with two brush coats of Satin Impervo from Benjamin Moore. Stay away from typical latex wall paints.


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## scyarch (Oct 20, 2011)

I can't believe I forgot I posted this ages ago. So, sorry for the lack of thank you's for input. I was just regoogleing how to stop Kilz from sticking and this was like the first thing I opened up to get some info. Had to make a campbox for my old scout troop as my family is still somewhat involved from when I made Eagle and stuff, and we had painted it with Kilz because the particular group of people we were making it for tend to be.. less than clean- and they wanted something they could easily wipe down and clean. Only issue is- that's right, PAINT STICKING!!! ARGH.

Anyways, campout is this weekend so I have to do a rush clean and fix job on the box and get it to a better place before Friday and that's why I'm back here. I think after we run through this last 5 gal of Kilz, that's it. Going to start trying either the Glidden Gripper or the Zinser. I've heard good stuff at least about the Gripper from someone at HD but I've also heard from a painter that Zinser is supposed to be like the pro choice. I'll also look into that tip about baby powder to stop blocking. Thanks again for the comments. Have several rentals coming up that need to paint so I'm definitely heading out to SW next for a new batch of painting.

Also... I've built my own computer desk quite sometime ago- used acx 5/8's ply and formica for a top, but used tung oil when I could get it, for the actual wood treatment on the shelves which seems to work great for that work. Is there a clear coat of some sort, I guess similar to varathane or something that can be applied over paints for a slick finish, easy for dusting, but durable enough for shelving use?


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## scyarch (Oct 20, 2011)

jschaben said:


> FWIW, I'm doing some work on my sons home and for the windows, the S-W guy recommended their SOLO line as it is supposed to be resistant to blocking. I used S-W ProCoat on my kitchen cabinets last fall and haven't had any noticeable blocking with it. I did find it to be pretty technique sensitive in application and for about the same money, their All Surface enamel seems much more application friendly. I haven't used that anywhere blocking could be an issue so I really can't speak to that. Since you are doing several rental units, you may be able to get contractor pricing from S-W. The place I used to work at used S-W ProMar 200 which, IMO, applied and performed very well and the contractor price is very close to what Home Depot gets for Behr. I've just used Behr exterior and haven't seen blocking issues but coverage with any color requiring their Deep or Ultra Deep Bases was virtually non-existant. I have some Behr maroon which takes up to about 5 coats to get decent coverage over white primer. I also have some Sailcloth color in the same Behr line which will cover the maroon in two coats.
> As far as primer goes, I have been using Glidden Gripper for years but on my sons house we are giving the Zinsser 1 2 3 a shot. For the windows of his I just did, I used S-W Oil base primer as the windows were old, cracked, bare wood and I had just reglazed them with DAP33. That stuff needs oil below and over it to keep it from drying up.


Let me know how that Zinsser turned out


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

scyarch said:


> Let me know how that Zinsser turned out


We primed the living room, walls and ceiling with the Zinserr 123, Ceiling got topcoated with the SW ceiling paint and the walls with S-W Emerald. All came out very nicely and have had no issues with blocking. The SOLO worked well outside also, no blocking on the windows although I haven't really checked them for about a month.


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## MNDIY (Sep 20, 2012)

I am currently working on painting my kitchen cabinets. 

Our cabinets are solid oak. SOLID. Most would say they are beautiful and why change them? Too much oak here though so it is Pure White for these bad boys. 

I started after doing research and used the Rust Oleum Cabinet Transformation kit. Long story short, I had 9 coats of the stuff on the doors and it still wasn't covered. 

More research and down to the local Sherman Williams. 

Picked out some Zinser 1-2-3 primer in white. Thick as glue, but it works!! I have used Kilz for yrs but thought I would mix it up a bit. 

3 coats of Zinser later I was ready to paint. Back to SW I went. It's only 5 minutes away. 

Aaron, the salesman, handed me a can of Pro Classic Interior Acrylic Latex. It is a smooth enamel for trim and doors. He said if it holds on on doors that people are coming and going thru, it would work on cabinets. Good thinking!! This too is thick. It goes on smooth though and dries with a semi - gloss finish. They do make different finishes though. 

The price is not pretty. A quart was $24. It doesn't take much though so it should cover my whole kitchen twice. A gallon was $50 I think. 

24 hrs after the first kitchen doors were given a 2nd coat, they are looking good. I think it will work nicely. 

As for rentals........ouch! You have my sympathy's!! We have rentals near the university here.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

MNDIY said:


> I am currently working on painting my kitchen cabinets.
> 
> Our cabinets are solid oak. SOLID. Most would say they are beautiful and why change them? Too much oak here though so it is Pure White for these bad boys.
> 
> ...


 
Why 3? Waste of time and $$ , one coat is all you ever need:yes:


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## MNDIY (Sep 20, 2012)

My wood has deep grain. 1 coat and then paint doesn't work. The grain shows through .


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## scyarch (Oct 20, 2011)

Don't let my parents hear that you painted white over pure oak... They'd scream bloody murder and blasphemes all day long -.^ haha. They love oak- but they're more traditional. Me? I like maple. They hate my taste because it's usually um, more expensive


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

MNDIY said:


> My wood has deep grain. 1 coat and then paint doesn't work. The grain shows through .


 
The finish paint would have been better for build, primer, not so much, just FYI


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I think you have gotten some very good advice here. Mainly stay away from the big box stores if you deal with the paint stores like SW or Ben Moore, yes you pay more (sometimes not) but if you have a problem and you go back to them they know how to deal with it. With the big box stores if you have a problem and go back the guy your talking to may have been in the gardening dept. for the last 6 months and only in paint a couple days.


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## scyarch (Oct 20, 2011)

What stinks is just yesterday, I saw a city truck with a crew of 4 driving around with like 5 5gal buckets of Behr and all I could think was "Reallly??:huh:" Of course they had labeling I'd never seen so maybe it was like a super behr.


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