# Fireplace dimensions???



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

I'd suggest that you go to City hall or the library and look at a copy of the international residential code, or your area's adopted code. There's a chapter devoted to chimneys and fireplaces and the dimensional requirements for them. It has some good diagrams. There are waaaaay too many variables for me to answer your questions online. There are a lot of construction details that make a big difference and are required by the code as well (parging the throat corbeling for example).


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## figs (May 9, 2009)

*Outdoor Fireplace*

I have been looking over this link to the IRC (http://www.rumford.com/code/IRC06.html). It does state a lot of minimum dimensions, but it really does not talk about fireplace science. I guess what I'm looking for is something that explains how to get the maximum heat radiation from the firebox. 

Are natural gas outdoor fireplaces constructed the same as wood burning fireplaces? I live in Arizona, so most of the fireplaces are all inserts. The masonry ones that I have been shown by contractors don't seem to follow any codes in the IRC. 

The first photo is an example of a fireplace that was shown to me by a local contractor. The chimney has exposed CMU. 

The second photo is an example of a fireplace that has exposed backerboard: 

From what I have seen, this seems to be the norm for outdoor fireplace construction. This sure doesn't look like to correct way to build a fireplace!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Try this for a plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumford_fireplace
Ron


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

These might help with the dimensions.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

figs said:


> I am building a natural gas outdoor fireplace. I have constructed the firebox pad that is 41" wide by 27" deep by 4" thick (http://www.diychatroom.com/members/figs-53257/albums/fireplace/2461-firebox-base/). I have planned to use a 30" log set. I have some questions regarding the construction of the firebox.
> 
> 1. How do I determine the width, height, and depth of the firebox opening for optimal performance?
> 
> ...


*Make sure to post some process/finished pics! :thumbup:*


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## figs (May 9, 2009)

*outdoor natural gas fireplace*

Thanks for the replies!

I considered building a Rumford, but they don't seem to accommodate large gas log sets very well. The gas log set that I have requires a firebox with these minimum dimensions: front width: 36", back width: 27", depth: 18", height: 18". A Rumford with a 42" wide opening (roughly the width of my firebox base) only has a depth of 15" and a back width of 15". I did find some technical information on_ *The Brick Industry*_ site (http://www.gobrick.com/html/frmset_thnt.htm). On the left hand side, scroll down to* Technical Note 19 - Residential Fireplaces*. I was thinking about designing the fireplace to be a hybrid between a Rumford and a traditional fireplace (the fireplaces listed on *The Brick Industry* site above). So my design would be as follows:

opening width: 42"
opening height: 32"
depth: 18" - 20"
rear width: 29"
I would not angle the back wall of the firebox, so it would be in Rumford style.
I also would construct the throat like a Rumford.

Do you think that mixing these designs will work, or should I rethink my design? Suggestions?

jomama45, I have read some of your other posts, and it appears that you are also building a fireplace. Do you have any pictures of it?

I have posted some pictures of my outdoor gas fireplace so far (http://www.diychatroom.com/members/figs-53257/albums/outdoor-natural-gas-fireplace/).

Thanks!


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Figs, I'm actually a mason by trade. I've done quite a few Rumfords in my life. Mostly interior, but also 2 outside FP's, one of which was at my own home this summer. Just for the record, I would never install any natural (wood burning) masonry FP that wasn't a Rumford due to many personal reasons. Mostly because : They are fairly easy & consistent, work very well when burning, & are more asthetically pleasing IMO.

For your situation, I see no reason why you couldn't blend a Rumford & conventional style FP together. Far less concerns with draft design, etc. with a gas log vs. real wood fuel, especially outside.

The benefit to the Rumford shallower & taller box & 45* walls is that it radiates heat very well out of the firebox, far better than a conventional IMO. You can adjust all the dimensions according to fit your log set, just keep the design & ideals in the back of your mind.

I would sway away from the cement backerboard if it was me. I don't see it last very long, & it would suck to put all this work into a project just for something like that to prematurely fail. Trust me, it's no fun working inside of a firebox AFTER it's built! Normally I use the Buckley Rumford throat & smoke chamber, but on mine I experimented (cheated) a little to save some cash. I recycled a section of concrete culvert that was removed from my driveway last year for the throat. I plastered the concrete culvert section as well with the same refractory cement (Heat Stop II) to help guard against heat damage. I also made my own smoke chamber out of 2 standard flues, fairly easy.

I'll attatch a few progress pics for now, maybe even a finished pic if/when it stops snowing out! 

BTW, very nice work on your project so far!:thumbup: Far more involved than what I was willing to do at home.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Looks a great job jomama. I've never seen an outside fire place over here. Might have a go at building one next year. Are those Stabilla levels? I thought you all used wooden ones because they got too hot in the summer. We don't have that problem as it rained nearly every day this year.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

stuart45 said:


> Looks a great job jomama. I've never seen an outside fire place over here. Might have a go at building one next year. Are those Stabilla levels? I thought you all used wooden ones because they got too hot in the summer. We don't have that problem as it rained nearly every day this year.


 
Thanks Stu. The one level is indeed a Stabila, the other just a cheap aluminum that gets abused like the Stabila, but definately shows it. I was at a huge concrete/masonry convention in Las Vegas 10+ years ago when I first saw their mason levels. When the rep was pounding on the level vial w/ a hammer & it didn't break, I knew that was a level for me! Of course I "needed" to prove the indestructable vial to my co-workers & broke it on the second hit! Luckily, they waurenteed it.

As for the wood, I cant believe it would have to do with the heat, especially in Wisconsin. Everyone here used wood at one time, but many have shifted to aluminim thru the years. I would imagine the ones still using wood do so because they still feel aluminim are inferior? As for me, I cant see myself buying another wood level in my lifetime.


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## figs (May 9, 2009)

*Nice work!*

jomama45,

Nice work! It looks great!

I'm not a mason. In fact, this is the first masonry project that I have ever built, so it's taking me forever to complete it. 

I'm going to face the fireplace in cultured veneer stone. I was told that I don't need to use wall ties. Is that correct?

I'm sure that I will have a lot more questions as my project evolves!

Thanks for all of the help!


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

That is correct figs, no wall ties necessary with any cultured/thin stone or brick. Simply adhered to the CMU (block) with conventional mortar.

I would suggest "padding" out the face of the FP 2-4" additional with CMU & using cultured stone corners on the return of the firebox. This will give a far more realistic look & better scale IMO. It will also give you a little more room inside for the logset.

Best of luck, I'm looking forward to more pics.


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## oliver8 (Sep 11, 2011)

Jomama,
I had similar questions, related to fireplace design. Thanks for your post and pictures.
I'm in the process of building a home in Appleton, and am trying to figure out how to create an outdoor fireplace.
I note that you are in WI, and also a mason by trade. Are you near enough to Appleton to want to take a look at the job? My builder has only offered landscaper-type-people to help with figuring out the fireplace/patio area.

Thanks,
Oliver
Appleton, WI


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

oliver8 said:


> Jomama,
> I had similar questions, related to fireplace design. Thanks for your post and pictures.
> I'm in the process of building a home in Appleton, and am trying to figure out how to create an outdoor fireplace.
> I note that you are in WI, and also a mason by trade. Are you near enough to Appleton to want to take a look at the job? My builder has only offered landscaper-type-people to help with figuring out the fireplace/patio area.
> ...




Oliver, no, I'm sorry, I'm alot closer to Milwaukee, and Appleton is too far for me. If I were you, I'd also look for a mason as well before falling for whatever it is the landscaper is going to sell you. Three suggestions I can give you:

1) Check with your local brick/masonry yards (Zoll, Hauckers, Gagne, County Materials are all in GB, but I prefer Buechel Stone in FDL) for a few names of reputuable masons. If you get the same name a few times, you've probably found a very competant mason....... :thumbsup:

2) Check rumford d o t com for a list of masons, there will likely be at least one in your area. This is a manufactures site that I use frequently, and it's a very simple, easy masonry FP, well at least for a mason.

3) You can try to PM another member here who goes by "6stringmason" that's certainly closer to your locale. Ne may be able to help you, or guide you in a better direction. The only problem is you don't have the min. 10 posts (Ithink) to recieve PM privledges yet, so post away........ :thumbsup:


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