# Retractable Ceiling Outlet



## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Can a plug in ceiling light socket adaptor with outlet attached operated by a pull chain; be used to wire a pulley light? I want to use it over a small table repurposed for a kitchen island. I need the outlet to plug in A Kitchen Aid stand mixer, and need to be able to pull it down when using and retract when not using. I've searched all over the web and haven't found this application. I cannot hardwire a floor outlet, the island is simply a small table, not permanent. I don't have the wall space for a switch for this application. The pull chain light and outlet is perfect if it can be made retractable (pulley) and be heavy duty enough to power my mixer. Any professional, safe advice would be greatly appreciated. Please, no standard " it can't be done" answers. I've already received that from my local lighting store. I've been researching this a long time and committed to coming up with a safe doable solution. I'm a homeowner on a limited budget doing a makeover on my DIY budget and installing a hard wired floor receptacle is out of the question. Creative thinking please Thanks so much!


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

is there already a lighting outlet above the area? in other words, is there electricity in the ceiling?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Does the mixer have a 3 wire end?

What are the specs on the mixing stand?


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## Philly Master (Mar 30, 2013)

Lol take ur pick....



https://www.google.com/search?q=ret...a=X&ei=qed=0CAkQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=672&dpr=2


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for rapid response! There is electrical supply. An electrician removed two 4' 1970s rectangular flourescent fixtures and installed can lights with LED bulbs which I love. Project is not complete, ceiling still not repaired and my center outlet/island light is not resolved. Electrician can wire additional ceiling fixture if not sufficient power there now. Obviously I don't want this center application to go on every time can lights are on so must be on separate switch. Thank you!


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

jbfan said:


> Does the mixer have a 3 wire end?
> 
> What are the specs on the mixing stand?


Mixer Specs:
Kitchen Aid Model K5SS
Max Watts 325
Volts 115
Hz 60


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

letmework said:


> Mixer Specs:
> Kitchen Aid Model K5SS
> Max Watts 325
> Volts 115
> Hz 60


The plug has three prongs.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Philly Master said:


> Lol take ur pick....
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=ret...a=X&ei=qed=0CAkQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=672&dpr=2


Thank you Philly Master;
Despite my arduous searching, prior to posting; (including the very link you provided)
I have failed to come up with a definitive answer. The electrician who converted my fluorescents to cans, has no idea how to accommodate my request. Hence my post here.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

*Retractable Cord Reel.*

I originally asked the electrician about installing a retractable cord reel in the attic with just the grommet and plug end exposed in kitchen. I could come up with a creative solution to disguising the cord. He was concerned about a coiled cord up in the attic where it could be a fire hazard. He also said that he thought the mixer would require. 20 amp circuit. Does this sound right? He's not done a lot of residential kitchen apps, more industrial type stuff. I've seen those retractable cords mounted on ceilings at coffee shops, but they are for phones, laptops, etc and likely not sufficient for what my application is. Please help! There has to be a solution for this dilemma. Thanks so much!:huh:


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Here's the link to the socket adaptor application I was referring to in my origonal post.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/GE-2-Outle...obileweb_pip_rr-3-_-203716802-_-203750639-_-N


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

That adapter does not have a ground prong.
Your mixer requires a ground for safety.

Use a short 3-prong extension cord and plug into nearest wall receptacle.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Oso954 said:


> That adapter does not have a ground prong.
> Your mixer requires a ground for safety.
> 
> Use a short 3-prong extension cord and plug into nearest wall receptacle.


Thank you Oso954. While that would work, I've had to discount that long ago. That cord poses a tripping hazard and I have lots of feet running around here


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

letmework said:


> Thank you Oso954. While that would work, I've had to discount that long ago. That cord poses a tripping hazard and I have lots of feet running around here


Is there a way to get that "wall receptacle" power into the application that I need?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Kitchen receptacles need to be on a 20 amp small appliance GFI protected circuit. Those circuits cannot have lighting on them.

Looks like you need to move the mixer.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Jim Port said:


> Kitchen receptacles need to be on a 20 amp small appliance GFI protected circuit. Those circuits cannot have lighting on them.
> 
> Looks like you need to move the mixer.


Oh no! I've got my heart set on having a baking station on my kitchen island. That basically concurs with what my electrician told me. So then the only option if I want the mixer in the middle is to install a GFI 20 amp circuit receptacle in ceiling? If so, than how can I disguise the 20 amp appliance extension cord that will be coming down from there to the island. I am 5'2" and cannot reach the 8' ceiling to plug the mixer in. Hence the pulley idea. There are so many great kitchen pulley lights out there. Would it be possible to get a ceiling light box right beside the ceiling receptacle, so I could detract from the extension cord?


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

Put the recept in the floor.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

k_buz said:


> Put the recept in the floor.


k_buz
That's not an option.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

You really don't have much of an option. I know of no code compliant way to dropping a receptacle from the ceiling. Is there a basement?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

IIRC the OP said the island was on wheels. As such it would not require one by code.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> IIRC the OP said the island was on wheels. As such it would not require one by code.


She said she wanted to use a mixer on that island.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Yes there is a finished basement underneath. Can I plug in a retractable cord reel to an outlet in the ceiling? That would be the worse case scenario for me. Would it be code compliant to build some sort of a box around the reel to make it look like a boxed in cooktop hood, but on a much smaller scale? Or figure out how to get an outlet down on the bottom edge of this "hood" so I could reach up and plug the mixer in? Wow, is my idea really that far out there? I just never thought. You know how the people who know the least always have those great ideas I just thought this was one of those times where perserverance pays off, if I don't give up. I bake and cook a lot! My mixer gets heavy use. It's currently on the counter against a wall but with limited space I'm constantly having to rearrange my canisters, etc to get to the outlet. I guess I have a dream of something not possible on my DIY budget. Please think some more, you guys have been invaluable. Thank you so much!!


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Is the island going to be permanent or something on rollers?

Either way, doesn't really matter, stop messing around with a bad idea and just put an outlet in the floor. 

Given that it's not on a concrete slab then it's really not very hard to do this right. There's likely more than enough room inside the floor joists below to accommodate running the necessary wire. Sure, it's possible an access hole might have to be cut in one place or another, but those are easily patched or just covered with an access panel.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

The island is actually an old Victrola record player cabinet. I will gut it and use the inside for storage. As the entire kitchen is on a shoestring budget, the only hired thing was to be the flourescent light switchover to cans. I bought the Victrola on Craigslist; it was the right size and height and the right price. It is definitely not a permanent piece. Very small, as my kitchen is small. But again something I can repurpose myself. But the electrical I cannot. And a floor receptacle is out of the question. Somewhere I believe I saw; (maybe Garden web)?, someone suggesting a 12 v battery setup for something similar. Anyone ever heard of that? Would that power my Kitchen Aid?
Thanks everyone for your input , even if it isn't what I want to hear. At least I will feel better about dealing with status quo, than if I hadn't tried so hard.:help::help:


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Seems a shame to wreck what might be an otherwise valuable Victrola cabinet, if it's a genuine one. That and using something old with a veneered wood on it in a kitchen is potentially asking for trouble. Moisture and old veneer don't mix.

No, 12v won't cut it for a high-torque device like a mixer. Read up on people trying to use things in boats and RVs. I've a boat, I'm well acquainted with what does or doesn't work on 12v systems. This kind of mixer isn't one that'd have a prayer of working. That and babysitting batteries of this kind is not trivial, especially when you have to take into account they have the tendency to off-gas and need ventilation otherwise it'd explode. And how would you power them to keep them charged?

What makes you so all-fired certain that a floor outlet isn't possible? When you mention a floor below it makes it MUCH, MUCH EASIER to run an outlet in the floor than, say, one on a concrete slab. THAT would be a lot more trouble, but a framed floor? Pretty trivial for an electrician to add. 

Perhaps if you posted some pictures better ideas could be suggested.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

wkearney99 - Thank you for your help in eliminating the 12v battery idea. And here I thought that storing the thing would be the biggest problem.
Thanks also for your input regarding moisture/veneer. I'm planning on painting the sides and either a butcher block top or marble for pastry rolling, etc.
It's not a valuable cabinet, just has a lot of sentimental value to me now, as my son travelled to pick it up for me, and died in an accident less than 2 months later, so I feel like I have a piece of him here with me.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Why do you say a floor outlet is not an option ?

They make low profile pop up units.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Jim Port said:


> Kitchen receptacles need to be on a 20 amp small appliance GFI protected circuit. Those circuits cannot have lighting on them.


To get around these code issue's you would have to run a dedicated
circuit to the roof above the kitchen stand.
You cannot use a nearby lighting circuit.

So the idea is do-able,
But not how you would like to do it !


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

letmework said:


> wkearney99 - Thank you for your help in eliminating the 12v battery idea. And here I thought that storing the thing would be the biggest problem.
> Thanks also for your input regarding moisture/veneer. I'm planning on painting the sides and either a butcher block top or marble for pastry rolling, etc.
> It's not a valuable cabinet, just has a lot of sentimental value to me now, as my son travelled to pick it up for me, and died in an accident less than 2 months later, so I feel like I have a piece of him here with me.


Ugh, sorry to hear of your loss. That's a terrible thing to have happen.

But there's still the question folks are asking about why you're completely rejecting the floor outlet idea....

It's true that tying an outlet into a lighting circuit is a bad idea and would not likely pass an electrical inspection. So if wire had to be pulled to use an outlet circuit, or a new one, then it'd be just as likely possible to do the same amount of pulling and put one in the floor.

As a side note, I've got a single outlet floor plug... and it really should have been a double. Why the electrician chose just one is a mystery, and damned annoying. But it's trivial to change it to a double outlet (single gang, 2 sockets). My point here is make sure the electrician installs what you actually NEED, not just what they 'guess' you might need.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

dmxtothemax said:


> To get around these code issue's you would have to run a dedicated
> circuit to the roof above the kitchen stand.
> You cannot use a nearby lighting circuit.
> 
> ...


Hi dmxtothemax;
Thanks for your help. I've attached a pic of the ceiling as it is now. Unfinished with one last can to add. The spot in the center between the two now defunct flourescent fixs ( which will come out and ceiling will be patched) is where the light fixture and electrical receptacle will go. ( in my dreams)
Obviously as the electrician will be up in the attic dropping in and wiring the last can AND removing the flourescents; now and there is the time and place to put the outlet. We are putting in a light fixture anyway. My basement is completely sealed up with Sheetrock ceiling, just had it refinished a year ago after flood damage, not interested, nor in the budget to open that back up again. I was just throwing this out to the pros;DIY pros and Electrician pros to see if there was a doable combination of light and electrical receptacle to minimize clutter on the ceiling. I have a swag light on hand that has a cord with its own in line switch on it. Could I just plug that in to a code compliant electrical receptacle in the ceiling? That would give me sufficient power for my mixer and a light. I'd just have to figure out how to make a 20 amp extension cord look good in my kitchen:-( which is where my pulley idea came in. This electrical receptacle would def be on its own GFCI circuit. I've actually talked to one of my county electrical inspectors when I first posed this to my electrician. He said there was no code preventing installing a retractable cord reel in attic and running cord down through ceiling into kitchen. My electrician was worried about heat with the coil up in the attic. Also those 20 amp cord reels are expensive. The outlet with the short kitchen appliance extension cord seems like it would be the least expensive. That way when we actually build our dream kitchen we won't have thrown a lot of money away. Sorry for the lengthy post here.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Flex cords are prohibited above a ceiling. Your electrical inspector should have known this.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

But what you may be failing to grasp is it may not require opening the ceiling. It may be possible to do it from the kitchen side. Cut the hole for the outlet and then fish the wire down and over to wherever's necessary to pick up a correctly usable circuit.

If you're hell bent on the ceiling idea then why let silly things like sense and electrical codes stop you? I mean, really, it's only the chance of tragedy from it catching fire that stands in your way. Most folks would shy away from that sort of thing, I'd imagine those already having suffered enough grief would be interesting avoiding more.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

*Retractable Ceiling Light*

Ouch!:icon_cry:
The first part of the last post was helpful. Thank you for that. That may be possible. I will ask the electrician why that was discounted early on. Of course there would be the issue of the extension cord coming up from the floor to deal with and move around( the mixer cord will not reach the floor).
The latter part of your post was unfortunately very hurtful and caused a pain in my heart that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You are absolutely right about us not wanting to suffer anymore grief, I regret mentioning our tragedy; I have been crying since I read your post. I thought it would help understand why this piece is SO important for my island; because my dear Son took flack from his boss for taking the time to pick it up for me because I was on bed rest at that time and couldn't drive. But he did it because I was his Mom and he loved me. And that enduring love beyond this life, and the love and empathy of many good people in this world has been a mainstay for us since our lives were changed forever. It was never my intent to use this forum as a shoulder to cry on, that's what our grief support group is for; but I felt compelled to respond to your meanness. This forum is no place for that. That very attitude is what keeps inexperienced people like us from reaching out to those who know more. 
Thank you to all who have been helpful here, I will NOT let this sad experience keep me from tapping into a wealth of knowledge.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Well, sorry to hit a nerve, but the electrical code is such that a lot of the stuff is really there for very good reasons. Don't read more into it than that. No insult intended.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

But I'm still confused. Fortunately many of my questions have been answered and ideas that are not doable ( code compliant) have been eliminated. Is it not code compliant to install a kitchen appliance outlet ( you all know what kind) in the ceiling? (I've read up on NEC and cant find where you can't). If not prohibited, then can a light on a plug in cord be plugged in to it, or do two separate receptacles need to be installed? One for appliances and one for lights, etc? If two are required then I would assume that I have the option of putting an appliance receptacle in and a light receptacle or hard wired light box in its place? THANK YOU for your patience with my relentless questions. I know what I want, but sometimes I cannot seem to explain it in a way that is understandable.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The reason you won't find it in the code is simply because receptacle to serve countertops are limited to 12 inches below or 20 inches above in order to count as serving the counters.

Lighting cannot be on the 20 amp countertop circuits.


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

the code actually reads that the two 20-amp small-appliance branch circuits required for kitchens shall serve all *wall and floor* receptacles, countertop outlets and receptacles for refrigeration equipment. no other outlets shall serve these circuits.

an unusual application but it would seem a receptacle on a kitchen *ceiling* does not fall under the 'realm' of a small-appliance branch circuit and could thus be on its own circuit, share lighting, not have to necessarily be 20-amp and wouldn't even need to be gfci. if you already have a separate circuit in the ceiling for lights, i don't see a reason why a ceiling receptacle couldn't be added to the circuit and still meet the letter of the code.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Please forgive my simplicity. It looks like I will ask my County inspector if he will approve a 20 amp receptacle in ceiling, and a light fixture box next to it that will be on same switch as my cans, so they will all go on at same time. Thank you all, for your patience and guidance. If it ends up happening, is anyone here interested in pics of the finished ceiling? Please tell me, if so. 
Here's what I was reading from:


> Kitchen Receptacles - Code Summary
> In the kitchen and eating areas every counter space wider than 12 inches must have a GFI protected plug, in general all kitchen counter top plugs should be GFI protected. Countertop receptacles shall be installed so that no point along the wall is more than 24" measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space. Peninsular bars and islands 12" or wider shall have at least one receptacle. Exception: Tennessee Code in dwelling unit’s section states, “The installation of receptacles for island counter spaces and peninsular counter spaces below the countertop shall be optional.
> 
> At least two 20-ampere branch circuits are required to feed receptacle outlets for small appliance loads, including refrigeration equipment in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, and dining room. These circuits, whether two or more are used, shall NOT supply anything other than receptacles in these areas. Lighting outlets and built-in appliances such as garbage disposals, hood fans, dishwashers, and trash compactors are NOT permitted on these circuits.
> ...


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## Philly Master (Mar 30, 2013)

There is NOTHING in the code book that would limit you from putting 10 circuits in the kitchen ... but you MUST have the 2 small appliance circuits ...*IMHO*


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Do you mean these?
I have 5 of these above my counters. The other 4 are just dual receptacle.
Sorry the pic is sideways.


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## Philly Master (Mar 30, 2013)

Philly Master said:


> There is NOTHING in the code book that would limit you from putting *10 circuits* in the kitchen ... but you MUST have the 2 small appliance circuits ...*IMHO*



not outlets ....*circuits* ...but you MUST have the 2 small appliance *circuits*


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Got it! I'm quite certain that's already taken care of but I will be sure and keep that in mind, at least I will know what the electrician and inspector already know Thank you so much for taking the time. I talked last night to a journeyman and he told me the company he works for does this all the time on commercial jobs, culinary schools, commercial kitchens, etc.


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## Philly Master (Mar 30, 2013)

Just go to the local larger super market, look in the meat department/ butcher shop area ... you will see things like that ..


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

How about a 20 amp twist lock receptacle in the ceiling. Wire up a 3-4 foot pieces of #12 SO cordage with a 20 amp twist lock plug and a straight blade receptacle on the other end. I have seen similar in machine and carpentry shops.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks rjniles. My Husband agrees with your solution


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## msaeger (Mar 1, 2011)

letmework said:


> I originally asked the electrician about installing a retractable cord reel in the attic with just the grommet and plug end exposed in kitchen. I could come up with a creative solution to disguising the cord. He was concerned about a coiled cord up in the attic where it could be a fire hazard. He also said that he thought the mixer would require. 20 amp circuit. Does this sound right? He's not done a lot of residential kitchen apps, more industrial type stuff. I've seen those retractable cords mounted on ceilings at coffee shops, but they are for phones, laptops, etc and likely not sufficient for what my application is. Please help! There has to be a solution for this dilemma. Thanks so much!:huh:


If it required a 20 amp circuit wouldn't it have one blade on the plug turned perpendicular to the other one? The book for it just says 120V 60HZ I would think if it required 20 amps it would say.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

msaeger said:


> If it required a 20 amp circuit wouldn't it have one blade on the plug turned perpendicular to the other one? The book for it just says 120V 60HZ I would think if it required 20 amps it would say.


 The requirements for a 20 amp circuit is not because that's what the appliance requires. The NEC code requires that all kitchen appliance circuits are 20 A. That makes them safe the matter what you end up plugging in.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

If there was only one physical place to plug into the circuit the receptacle would need to be 20 amp configuration. A standard duplex counts as two and is allowed to be 15 amp slots.


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

Does this interest anyone here? You will need to scroll up to page 1 of thread, apparently I saved it from page 2. I thought it was interesting, I know I had read this longer ago; but couldn't remember where it was.

http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7485&whichpage=2


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## letmework (Nov 27, 2013)

This is what I have been looking for


Posted - 02/09/2010 : 07:40:13 
Knowing why they want to move the island definatly helps in designing a workable solution. You want something that will be out of the way when the island is moved. I have installed a retractable light in a dining room so they are avaiable finding one with an receptacle outlet may take some doing but I bet their is one out there.


Tell me where


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

From:
http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7485&whichpage=2



> I think we have her talked into a floor outlet under the island. The cabinet man said he could put a trap door above the outlet. We are going to install a outlet on each end of the island to a j-box just inside his trap door to the toe kick space and just plug it in. If you want to move it unplug it and move it out of the way.
> They said it will probably be moved 4 times a year max for dinner parties. Then they can put the brass screw in plug back into the floor outlet. I don't think this will be a tripping hazard. The brass floor outlets fit pretty flush.


There's a difference between a light that has a retracting cord and something with an outlet on it. It's probable the light he's mentioning was of a kind popular back in the 60/70's. There was typically an in-line housing with some cord spooled in it. You could raise/lower the light about 2 to 3 feet. Not a fully retracting cord reel. Just something that allowed moving the light up/down a bit.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> I have installed a retractable light in a dining room so they are avaiable finding one with an receptacle outlet may take some doing but I bet their is one out there.
> Tell me where


Ask the guy that is betting there is one. 

Even if you found one with a receptacle, the odds of it having being a 3 prong and having wire sized for that mixer are extremely unlikely.


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## Arlo (Jan 17, 2008)

wkearney99 said:


> From:
> http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7485&whichpage=2
> 
> 
> ...


 They still make a similar light, Porter ceiling pendant by Pottery Barn has a raise and lower feature. Check eBay for them since they seem to be discontinued. I have one in our breakfast area, very handy. I still don't understand what OP is trying to do.


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## avengerki (Nov 1, 2013)

Would doing a hanging pendant outlet work? After you have that installed you could attach a retracting device to the pendant to keep it up out of the way. While this wouldn't retract the cord into the ceiling it would get the outlet out of the way and hopefully above the height for people to hit their heads. Then when you want to use it reach up and swing it down, plug in the mixer and away you go.


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## avengerki (Nov 1, 2013)

What I am picturing looks somewhat like this.








Except with a semi-flexible conduit attachment to the ceiling. You then attach a retracting device to this to kind of swing it out of the way. Not sure if it is entirely in code but I know at least the drop down box gets used in industrial application and some home workshops. It could be that there is too much wire movement in a flexible conduit which could lead to an issue over time. Although I am pretty sure I have also just seen the box at the end of a thick cord and not in a retractable reel situation.

If you are able to get an outlet in the floor you could wire the island with an outlet for mixer or whatever and a plug underneath to plug into the floor outlet. Just make sure to use the appropriate gauge wire for the 20-amp applications.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Boy would I love to have that hanging in my kitchen:no:


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## avengerki (Nov 1, 2013)

rjniles said:


> Boy would I love to have that hanging in my kitchen:no:


Trying to give an option. When I first read the thread this was what I was seeing in my head. I know in one fashion it is entirely within code, in another fashion it is not in fashion. It is entirely up to the OP on if they want to go this route and can deal with it in the area they want.








Yep here is one with a cord but not sure how it is attached in the ceiling.


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