# 26' Steel I Beam



## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

If the beam is at the bottom it is supporting a minimum of 1/2 of the total load, which will include the roof.

Where do you live?

What is holding up the rest of the addition ie outside walls?

What type soil for foundation?

Even with these answered you will definately require an engineer to survey the site and do total load calculations.

I could tell you what size beam, but that is only a small part of the picture. What about posts and foundations.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

jjohnson112 said:


> I'm planning to add on a 12' by 26' room addition to the end of my house going out over the driveway. I will be spanning the entire width of the driveway with a 26' steel beam. There can't be any supports in the middle of the beam because of the drive, and the beam can only be 12" tall for vehicle clearance. It is a gable end, so the beam will not be supporting much roof load. What size beam should I go with?


What did the arcitect & structural engineer state on the plans that they drew up if they have?


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Jackofall1 said:


> I could tell you what size beam, but that is only a small part of the picture. What about posts and foundations.


then why not just answer the question? Would it be so difficult to say something like " the minimum size is X", but this will vary based on factors such as snow load, wind load, foundation, blah, blah, blah....



gregzoll said:


> What did the arcitect & structural engineer state on the plans that they drew up if they have?


they told him they have no idea, go consult the annoymous internet experts. Maybe the guy is just trying to work out a rough materials list to see if he can afford the project before he spends the money to have plans drawn up. 

Geez guys, it's his first post, he's asking a pretty specific question, if you don't want to help, don't, but you don't need to jump all over every poster that_ you believe_ is going to do unpermitted work from plans he sketched up on the back of a budwieser coaster


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

the problem is; 

there is no; it's a beam this big and this thick.

It varies with every question asked and the inference with gregzoll's post is:

You need an engineer to determine this for you using all the variables involved.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

nap said:


> It varies with every question asked and the inference with gregzoll's post is:
> 
> You need an engineer to determine this for you using all the variables involved.


I understand that. But isn't your response a better answer to give a brand new member asking his very first question?maybe i'm just having a bad day, but it seems the first answer was" i can tell you but i won't" and the second seemed passive-aggressive.

it seems like a growing trend of this site is to ridicule those brave enough to ask questions


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Mr Chips said:


> I understand that. But isn't your response a better answer to give a brand new member asking his very first question. maybe i'm just having a bad day, but the first answer was i can tell you but i won't and the second seemed passive-aggressive.
> 
> it seems like a growing trend of this site is to ridicule those brave enough to ask questions


It is about liability. If a person was to give a answer without knowing all of the variables involved, and Bubba decided that was correct, whuch it is not, the responsibility falls back on the person who answered with improper information.

In other words, no one wants to claim this responsibility when bubba goes out and orders said I beam, then their house falls in. At that point all parties become responsible for bad information, and unsafe practices.

Engineering something like this, is not something that some Joe on the Internet can answer.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Once again, this is a public forum. When anyone posts a question, they can expect to receive any type of answer from anyone out there.
As moderators, we try to keep the negative comments to a minimum, but it's not always possible to catch them all. If you see anyone being rude or insulting, etc., please just report them so we can do our jobs and continue to make this a fun, friendly, family-oriented forum.

Thanks Guys!

DM


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

Mr Chips said:


> I understand that. But isn't your response a better answer to give a brand new member asking his very first question?maybe i'm just having a bad day, but it seems the first answer was" i can tell you but i won't" and the second seemed passive-aggressive.
> 
> it seems like a growing trend of this site is to ridicule those brave enough to ask questions


The growing trend on this site is that people ask an impossible question that cannot be answered like what size beam to use for a 26' span on the internet and people are dumb enough to give sizes out with such a big beam. None here can possibly answer that question. The best advise and safest advise is to recommend to the poster to have a professional give them the size because.....a professional IS the only one who can give them the size beam to use, NOT someone on the internet......it's that simple.

I don't care what you say, no one here can answer what size beam this guy needs.



> Geez guys, it's his first post, he's asking a pretty specific question, if you don't want to help, don't, *but you don't need to jump all over every poster that you believe is going to do unpermitted work from plans he sketched up on the back of a budwieser coaster*


90% of the time it's true. When you ask them about permits and inspections some say they are not getting them and the others never come back.

Why don't we let the OP come back and tell us that he is having plans drawn up for this because he certainly HAS to. The person who does draw the plans will give him the size. If he doesn't need an architect or engineer to draw plans for the permits and inspections, a beam this size should be spec'd by one for him. Where I';m from you don't need an architect or engineer to draw plans for the town. A homeowner can draw the plans, but they have to be approved by the town.

OP are you having plans drawn up and getting permits and inspections ?


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> , no one wants to claim this responsibility when bubba goes out and orders said I beam, then their house falls in. At that poimt all parties become responsuble for bad information, and unsafe practices.
> 
> Engineering somethimg like tgis, is not something that some Joe on the Internet can answer.


That's my point. isn't that response, or none at all better than thread-crapping the guy? it just seems to be done way too often here. Personally I'd rather get no answer than " what size did the engineer who drew up the plans spec"


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Mr Chips said:


> That's my point. isn't that response, or none at all better than thread-crapping the guy? it just seems to be done way too often here. Personally I'd rather get no answer than " what size did the engineer who drew up the plans spec"


Because if no answer is given, then you hear all over other sites that such and such site is hard to get answers from. Majority of these posts that I have seen in the past couple of weeks are drive by's and a lot them are posted the same way on various other sites on the Internet.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

that's fine, I'm not trying to pick a fight or derail a thread. All I'm saying is maybe we wouldn't have as many drive-bys if the answers were more on point. Simply saying " your question has too many variables to be answered here" is (IMO) a much more acceptable answer, but it sounds like I'm in the minority here, so I will leave it at that.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP, good luck with your project.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

Joe Carola said:


> I don't care what you say, no one here can answer what size beam this guy needs.


Sorry, I know I said i was resigning from this thread, but i just saw the above statement. For the record, I NEVER said that anyone here could answer this. The first responder ( I'm too tired to see who it was ) said something like " I can tell you the size, but that's only a small part of the overall project". I was criticising that response as it almost sounded like he (she) was saying "I know the answer, but won't tell you until you prove you've done your homework". 

Ok, enough from me on this, my point has been made, the votes are all in, looks like i lost this one! thanks guys


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

Mr Chips said:


> that's fine, I'm not trying to pick a fight or derail a thread. All I'm saying is maybe we wouldn't have as many drive-bys if the answers were more on point. Simply saying " your question has too many variables to be answered here" is (IMO) a much more acceptable answer, but it sounds like I'm in the minority here, so I will leave it at that.
> 
> Sorry to hijack your thread OP, good luck with your project.


As I have said before, these people come here doing major projects on their homes with no intentions of have plans, permits and inspections. They ask the obvious questions that tell you this. When they are questioned they don't like it and don't come back because they are trying to do something illegal and dangerous.

Do you not care about people doing the right thing here by asking about drawings, permits and inspections? Or, all you care about is just answering questions and drawings, permits and inspections are not important for DIY'ers?

Would you ask how big a 26' beam should be on the internet and use someone's answers to let you know if you will do the job or not, or user that size as a reference? Can you answer these questions or will you avoid them like the people who avoid the plans, permit and inspection questions?


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Mr Chips said:


> Sorry, I know I said i was resigning from this thread, but i just saw the above statement. For the record, I NEVER said that anyone here could answer this. The first responder ( I'm too tired to see who it was ) said something like " I can tell you the size, but that's only a small part of the overall project". I was criticising that response as it almost sounded like he (she) was saying "I know the answer, but won't tell you until you prove you've done your homework".
> 
> Ok, enough from me on this, my point has been made, the votes are all in, looks like i lost this one! thanks guys


I would answer the question as soon as mine are answered, in order calculate the beam size I would need to know the spacing, how many beams, just one on the outside wall with the inside wall sitting on an existing structure, or (2) center and outside, (3) inside, outside and center. 

I trying to start a investigative conversation, I was and am more that willing to spend the hour or more to crunch some numbers in a spread sheet to given some estimates.

I was heading out in the snow storm to pick my wife up and was hoping on my return the answers would be there, instead you have mucked up the whole idea of why I was asking such questions.:thumbsup:


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

jjohnson112 said:


> I'm planning to add on a 12' by 26' room addition to the end of my house going out over the driveway. *I will be spanning the entire width of the driveway with a 26' steel beam. There can't be any supports in the middle of the beam because of the drive, and the beam can only be 12"* tall for vehicle clearance. It is a gable end, so the beam will not be supporting much roof load. What size beam should I go with?


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that won't work for you. Most 12" steel beams will have too much deflection under it's own weight in a span this long. You may have better odds at looking into a multi layer engineered wood beam instead, although it will probably be over 12" high as well.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Design of a 26 foot steel I beam is a job best left to a professional. I say this because a beam this large is well beyond standard tables, hence requires individual sizing. In order to design such a beam, it is necessary to calculate the dead load and live load on the beam, which depends on house geometry and code mandated design loading conditions.

A steel beam this long must also be checked for buckling, which while not rocket science is not standard DIY computations.

There are four S shapes that meet the 12 inch criteria, and approximately 22 W shapes that could work. It is incorrect to state that _Most 12" steel beams will have too much deflection under it's own weight in a span this long. _In fact, there are NO S or W shapes that are approximately 12 inches deep that would have excessive deflection UNDER THEIR OWN WEIGHT. Some of them may not meet deflection or strength requirements given the combination of live and dead load, however that is why you hire an engineer to size the beam and design the connections.

In my experience, steel is likely to be less costly than wood for a 26 foot span with maximum depth of 12 inches. However, again that is why you hire an engineer, they will compare the options and select the best value shape.


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## AndyGump (Sep 26, 2010)

I think that too many assumptions are being made about this beam in question.

We don't even know if it is supposed to be the ridge beam, which if it is would be strange that it could only be 12" high? Why?

Or is it some exotic idea of the OP to hang it on the existing house wall and on the garage door header?

Who knows? I will wait for the OP to respond. I hope he answers some of these questions.

Andy.


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## muthian (Dec 30, 2010)

Most likely, there is a driveway to the side of the house and they are building an addition over the driveway (ala porte-cochere). I saw them a lot in the middle-upscale neighborhoods in Texas.

The reason for the 12" limit is he is trying to match the level of the 2nd floor and that leaves 12" of room between a reasonable height for vehicles. 

And yes, a 26' long beam that supports a room above it SHOULD have a professional look at it.


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## jjohnson112 (Jan 11, 2011)

Sorry I'm wasting everyone's time. The main reason I ask this question is the fact that I wanted to get a "round about" price from a local steel beam fabricator without paying $300 in engineer's fees just to find out that I want to go a different route because the size of the beam is so big it won't be worth the money. In order to get a "round about" price I need a "round about" steel beam size. I was assuming I could get by with either LVL beams for the outside wall beams or even 3-ply 2x12's, but would be having everything spec'd by an engineer before beginning the project. I will be over killing the two columns using either 18" or 24" diameter reinforced concrete columns on top of a footing on clay soil. Keep in mind the beam must be a W12 in order for vehicle clearance. I live in Terre Haute, Indiana...


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## muthian (Dec 30, 2010)

No big deal. Vague description usually begets questions and responses. If you could provide more detail on exactly what the beam is supporting, etc then guesses could be made. Still a lot of variables that need to be dealt with before an accurate estimation can be made.


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## jjohnson112 (Jan 11, 2011)

The beam will be at the end of the addition. Assume you're pulling into a basement garage at the end of your house. It is a 6 and a 1/2 foot tall by 16 foot wide garage door with a 3-ply 2x12 header (we may have to add a flitch plate for strength). The wall extends 5 feet on each side of the door to make my 26' wide. I will be using wood beams extending out 12' from the end of the walls, resting on top of the basement walls and the concrete columns. The steel I-beam will be spanning from one column to the other overtop of the driveway. I will then use 2x10 floor joists running from the beam to the existing wall 16 OC. The gable end will be on top of the beam, so the side walls will be holding most of the roof load, while the beam will have half of the bedroom floor load and the existing wall will have the other half of the floor load. (I think thats right?)


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

jjohnson112 said:


> Sorry I'm wasting everyone's time. The main reason I ask this question is the fact that I wanted to get a "round about" price from a local steel beam fabricator without paying $300 in engineer's fees just to find out that I want to go a different route because the size of the beam is so big it won't be worth the money. In order to get a "round about" price I need a "round about" steel beam size. I was assuming I could get by with either LVL beams for the outside wall beams or even 3-ply 2x12's, but would be having everything spec'd by an engineer before beginning the project. I will be over killing the two columns using either 18" or 24" diameter reinforced concrete columns on top of a footing on clay soil. Keep in mind the beam must be a W12 in order for vehicle clearance. I live in Terre Haute, Indiana...


You're not wasting our time. The guys here love a good challenging thread.
Gives them all a chance to voice their opinions when not enough details are there to work with. It happens all the time, don't worry about it. :no:
I recently finished a project similar to this, and MY engineer drew up two 2x12s on the outer, one indide, one outside bolted together, and double 11 7/8" LVLs heavily bolted together for the ridge. Then the trusses went up.
You might find that this may end up being the route you want to go. However, once you start and have the drawings done up, you'll find the inspectors a lot easier to get along with if you have the engineer's stamp on it. Well worth the $300 to have them run the numbers to keep it strong, and your family safe. :yes:

DM


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## jjohnson112 (Jan 11, 2011)

Just so everyone knows, I'm not trying to find a shortcut to finding the beam size by going through a DIY forum. I'm simply wanting something to give me an estimate as to about the size so I can see if this project is even worthwhile. Engineers have to stamp anything that gets put up in our area, so in order to start the job, I will have to have plans and everything stamped.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

jjohnson112 said:


> Just so everyone knows, I'm not trying to find a shortcut to finding the beam size by going through a DIY forum. I'm simply wanting something to give me an estimate as to about the size so I can see if this project is even worthwhile


I understand that. The simple and safe answer for is that you cannot get it here. No one here is qualified to size such a beam. If someone did, would you trust that size from someone on the internet?

I've been framing a long time and what you have here is a big project and you are going to have to pay to get the answer. It's not just a little framing project with a beam that size.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Daniel Holzman said:


> There are four S shapes that meet the 12 inch criteria, and approximately 22 W shapes that could work. It is incorrect to state that _Most 12" steel beams will have too much deflection under it's own weight in a span this long. _In fact, there are NO S or W shapes that are approximately 12 inches deep that would have excessive deflection UNDER THEIR OWN WEIGHT. Some of them may not meet deflection or strength requirements given the combination of live and dead load, however that is why you hire an engineer to size the beam and design the connections.
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience, steel is likely to be less costly than wood for a 26 foot span with maximum depth of 12 inches. However, again that is why you hire an engineer, they will compare the options and select the best value shape.


I'll give you the fact that I may have "exaggerated" on the deflection comment. When loaded though, most 12" beams would have more deflection than I would be comfortable with, regardless of if they met typical deflection standards or not.

As for the engineer selling value, I think that you may be the only professional here that thinks that. Engineer's typically do whatever's easier for themselves and have little regard to saving either the contractor or end consumer money. Maybe your own approach is different, but my experiences would say that you're in the minority if that's the case.


Steel would be cheaper than wood in this scenario?? Maybe it appears that way to you, but in reality, if you figure in the fact that most any lumberyard will do the engineering, or at least get the engineering from the manufacturer, included in the cost of the wood beam, wood almost always comes out cheaper. I know you don't like to hear this, because it takes business away from folks like you, but it is oftentimes the most efficient approach financially.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

jjohnson112 said:


> The beam will be at the end of the addition. Assume you're pulling into a basement garage at the end of your house. It is a 6 and a 1/2 foot tall by 16 foot wide garage door with a 3-ply 2x12 header (we may have to add a flitch plate for strength). The wall extends 5 feet on each side of the door to make my 26' wide. I will be using wood beams extending out 12' from the end of the walls, resting on top of the basement walls and the concrete columns. The steel I-beam will be spanning from one column to the other overtop of the driveway. I will then use 2x10 floor joists running from the beam to the existing wall 16 OC. The gable end will be on top of the beam, so the side walls will be holding most of the roof load, while the beam will have half of the bedroom floor load and the existing wall will have the other half of the floor load. (I think thats right?)


You may want to consider going to a lumber yard to have them price out the whole package for you. As I stated above, they will generally spec the beam for you as part of the cost of the beam. Most of the time, they can get a stamped drawing with the calcs as well, if you're required to present the to your building department.

One other thing to consider in a wood beam is that it is fairly simple & routine to hanger the floor joists off of the beam, giving you much more clearance underneath. For example, if the wood beam was spec'ed out to be X layers of approx. 16" high LVL, you'd only have 7" of the beam BELOW the bottom of floor joists.


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## warnerww (Apr 9, 2007)

jjohnson112 said:


> The beam will be at the end of the addition. Assume you're pulling into a basement garage at the end of your house. It is a 6 and a 1/2 foot tall by 16 foot wide garage door with a 3-ply 2x12 header (we may have to add a flitch plate for strength). The wall extends 5 feet on each side of the door to make my 26' wide. I will be using wood beams extending out 12' from the end of the walls, resting on top of the basement walls and the concrete columns. The steel I-beam will be spanning from one column to the other overtop of the driveway. I will then use 2x10 floor joists running from the beam to the existing wall 16 OC. The gable end will be on top of the beam, so the side walls will be holding most of the roof load, while the beam will have half of the bedroom floor load and the existing wall will have the other half of the floor load. (I think thats right?)



OK am I missing something here ( I usually am) but if you are going to have a 5 foot wall on each side of the 16' door why do you need a 26' beam and not a 16' beam?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Go and ask the beam supplier. He probably has good idea of what you need.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Yes I am a professional engineer, but I certainly do not think that is a negative. I always try to find the best solution to a client's problem, that is what engineers do.

Now as to this particular beam. I ran a few calculations just for fun, and it is clear that the 12 inch deep limitation, if it is actually controlling, would require a wide and expensive Glulam, based on 40psf load. Obviously I don't know the exact load on your structure, and this is absolutely not a design, but I checked a few 12 inch deep steel beams and they appear to work adequately from a deflection and strength standpoint.

And steel is relatively inexpensive. I recently installed a 12 lb/foot steel beam, and it cost about $300 for 20 feet, which works out to be around $1.50 per lb, cut and drilled. A larger beam in the 26 foot range would be less costly per pound, depends on the availability of steel in your area. At $1 lb, you would end up paying perhaps $600 for the beam. If you can get a working Glulam for less, go for it, I don't own any steel stock. Simply saying that based on some preliminary calcs, and lots of personal experience, I expect the steel beam to be considerably less costly than the equivalent Glulam due to the span. But again, you are going to have to hire an engineer to design it, and they can tell you for sure which size you need, and which option is more cost effective.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

Daniel,

Have you ever spec'd a rectangular piece of steel like this? Or, is it called a tube steel?

I did a job six years ago where we had to take out the back wall of the house that was supporting the second floor and rafters. The owner wanted to have a flush beam in their. Existing joists were 2x10's and there was a 10' addition off the back of the house with 9-1/2" I-joists going into the other side of the steel.

Engineer recommended this 22' clear span 8" x 22" rectangular piece of steel. They welded angle iron on each side for the existing joists and new I-joists to sit on.


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## dtsman (Jan 1, 2011)

Used steel headers in residential construction many times.

The company that makes the the beam should have the specs. Tell them the length you need and an estimate of the weight it will hold. Double up on the weight part of the calculation and you will have what you need. No one here is going to be able to quote exactly what you need for such a custom application. The steel dealers in your area will. 
More things do come into play as well. As argued above.


Bo

Remember,
If the women don't find you handsome,
they should at least find you handy. 
(Red Green)


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## jjohnson112 (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks guys for your input. The steel dealer wouldn't supply the information for me at no cost even if I bought the beam from them. I've gotten in touch with an Engineer and I'll let you know the outcome.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Joe, the shape you show in the photo is now called HSS (hollow steel shape). It used to be referred to as tube steel. Typically the steel comes in rectangular and circular tube shape, with a variety of standard wall thicknesses available. HSS is very useful for a variety of applications, but is not as efficient as W or S shapes when loaded purely in bending.


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Yes I am a professional engineer, but I certainly do not think that is a negative. I always try to find the best solution to a client's problem, that is what engineers do


I have been around engineers most of my working life, and I fully agree with Daniel Holzman. I don't understand the adversarial relationship some trades think they must foster with engineers. When you understand what they are trying to accomplish, and to the professional and design standards their designs are held to, then you will start to understand that the vast majority are engineering structures the way they have to.

While it is true that many lumber yards can supply fully documented engineered wood products at no or little additional charge, they must be given correct drawings of the structure to base their calculations on. Site visits without a hefty additional charge are unlikely. In a remodel situation, there may be no drawings reliable enough for any engineer to base beam size upon, and a site visit becomes a necessity


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

We're still dinosaurs out in the field. Everyone I know would still refer to that as (for instance) a "8"x22" x 1/2" square tube" And round shapes are pipe if they truly are IPS (iron pipe size) and mechanical tubing if they are not IPS


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

What I didn't mention before was that piece of steel is not a perfect rectangle. The outside measured 8" and the middle was 8-3/8" . I put a framing square on it and notice the middle top and bottom was raised. You can see it in the picture if you look closely.


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## Anti-wingnut (Oct 18, 2009)

It easy to see that it's beat up. That is common, from shipping, handling and torching


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## jjohnson112 (Jan 11, 2011)

I went to an engineer today and found that I'll be able to use a W12x26 very easily. It would actually be possible to use a W10 if I wanted, but chose to stay with a W12 for good measure. 12' long 4x12's for the other 2 beams connecting to the house.


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