# Need to replace a bullnose starting stair. DIY?



## toddryan (Dec 13, 2006)

Here are the pictures...


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Looks like tape to me.?


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## toddryan (Dec 13, 2006)

I sure wish it was tape. In fact, maybe a nice racing stripe is all I need to fix this problem. :thumbsup: No...it's a 48" riser and tread, split to make it 51" and plywood filled in so it feels normal under the carpet. More pics here in case they help with any ideas.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Somebody needs their butt kicked for doing that, unless the original owners knew about it and OKed it. That is not an easy fix, unless you install a carpet runner, but you said you just removed carpet. 

If I had installed those stairs you would not be able to raise the rail even a little to remove the posts. The posts should have a large dowel in the bottom and a 1 inch long dowel in the top, or they could have a screw insert in the bottom with a bolt, or they could be bolted from the bottom, or... There are several ways to install the post at the bottom but only one way (if installed correctly) at the top.

There really isn't a way to do that unless you reinstall the posts without the top dowel. You could cut the dowel off and after reinstalling, install a through dowel, from the top. The riser could be veneered or just make a new one. Once you get it all removed you will see how the riser is made, it isn't that hard.

You could glue up and make the tread also, if you have the right tools.

The tread and riser will be nailed and more than likely glued to the stringers. You could cut everything loose from the starter tread, then cut everything loose from the top leaving the volute hanging. 

Chances are you may have to replace the balusters, (I call them spindles), unless you lower everything the thickness of the saw blade you cut everything loose with. Or you could add to them, fill and sand and use dowels to replace them. The spindles should have dowels at the bottom and how ever they chose to fasten them at the top.

Once all is removed and you are ready to reinstall this is what I would do.

Block in on top of the recess at the saw curfs to bring at area back flush with the top edge of the riser. That needs to be glued and fastened solid, you really don't want to totally depend on just the tread to take the abuse of the post (newel). 

Once the riser is installed and the area under the newel is filled, glue then bolt the newel or post from the bottom of the tread. You will have to drill a hole where the bolt sits onto the filled area on the riser. Glue everywhere wood touches wood for installing the tread. 

You don't want a squeak and installing the tread where you can't get to the back of the next riser up to fasten the back edge of that tread is a potential place for a squeak because the back edge of that thread isn't supported and can move wood against wood.

Once all is back in place you can dowel through the sides of the spindles at an angle into the tread and the bottom of the volute, cut the dowels off and fill, sand and paint.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

You have a hell of a job ahead of you to replace that tread and riser.You can bet on top of any fasteners everything is also glued.
I would remove the filler and replace with a solid wood filler with the grain running the correct direction.Sand and refinish.It will still be noticable but if done correctly you will have to look for it.
That $1100 price isn't looking to bad after seeing what's involve to replace it.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

WOW! $1100 price..
This means you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Nothing beats a try but a failure. I would putty that up and sanded it smooth, and try my hand at this first. Of course I would practice on scrap first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAiv9S4w2Po



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0qO2pLWkho




I hope it turns out good for ya, good luck.


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## toddryan (Dec 13, 2006)

Thank you guys for the feedback and advice. I have a couple calls in to suppliers to see how much just the tread and riser are. The guy that quoted $1100 said that just the materials were around $500 of that, rest is labor. We'll see where the other prices come in. I also have a couple other stair guys to call.

I did some more looking and found that the volutes are held on by a single nail into the top of each post. The top of the rail section appears to just be nailed to the top post. Should be pretty easy to pull off. The tread is nailed into the stringer, and as BigJim said, appears to also be nailed to the next stringer from the back. The riser is nailed into the front of the stringers and also looks to be nailed down into the flooring. 

As the one carpenter reminded me, if I commit to replacement, the stair and riser can be considered sacrificial, so I could saw it open and see what's going on inside with the posts. If the prices don't come in somewhere more affordable, I may go ahead start pulling things apart. Assuming I don't do serious damage in the process, at least I'll know what it will cost to get me out of the jam if I can't do it.


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## toddryan (Dec 13, 2006)

toddryan said:


> The tread is nailed into the stringer, and as BigJim said, appears to also be nailed to the next stringer from the back.


Oops...meant to say the tread is nailed to the back of the next RISER from the back.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

I may be repeating some advices listed already.

Riser can be used. Just sand and veneer over it. Remove the thread in pieces around the balusters and see how they are attached. You may have to cut the bottom. Search japanese pull saw. There are thinner blade saws.
Dowels can be attached again new.

I think that price is not bad.

I think it is red oak with oil based poly, but new parts will not match the old. Time will blend them.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Just a guess could you take a hammer and chisel out the fill pieces. Make new ones from the proper wood. Being very precise with the measurements, fill in the gaps, stain and poly. Will still be noticeable, but maybe not much.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

:yes:I think there's an echo in here


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

The bullnose risers are usually made to accommodate 48" or less because that is the max width achieved with an 8' sheet of plywood. There are ways to make the throat wider with a standard sheet but these ppl obviously didn't know the trick. Anyway. At my place a bullnose package which is dbl bullnose riser and tread with cove in oak runs for 420. So his price is decent. 
Another option is to pop the joint were the easement attaches to the straight rail. This will give full access to the post and balusters. They can detach rather easily. It can easily be reattached. But the rail will likely need to be sanded and refinished. If you don't do this way I cant see a way of attaching the newel properly. 
You can leave the riser the way it is. Just bondo the bad area where the joint is in the middle and paint all the risers white to match the trim. Just an idea. You will need to have a custom tread made to replace the one you have. You will not find anything stock. There are most likely nails or screws coming in from the back of the number 2 riser.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

mako1 said:


> :yes:I think there's an echo in here


Sorry should read them all next time.:whistling2:


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## JamesR. (Nov 30, 2017)

Reviving this old thread to see what the solution was. I am in a similar position and need to remove my double ended bullnose starting step. Can't see how it is installed and the entire stringer seems to want to move it I attempt to pry it from the floor. I have no access to the underside as that section is sheet-rocked leading to a basement stairway. So I am wondering what the OP did in his case.
I have the starter newels and spindles removed already. 
I will try to post up a pic. The reason for removing it that we just had HW floors installed on the 1st level of the home and want to do a DIY hardwood stairs project.
Thanks in advance.
...Jim


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## pcride (Aug 15, 2016)

You could cut a new small piece and cut it with the grain going the other way to match better, make the bullnose piece to match, stain to match and it would be the easiest. You would still see it but less work

Second option is to cut the tread out, starting your cuts before you hit the spindals, then patch in a longer piece of oak, the ends would still have a seam

Ripping all that out is a big job and you’ll end up refinishing most of the stairs and spindals. Also do you have the tools? You need a nice saw, a multil-tool saw with good blades, table saw and routers. Don’t go buying Royobi brands expecting good results either. 

Part of doing this yourself is having the tools, otherwise it won’t look right. You also need to get the wood, milled, planer and fitted. A piece of 5/4 oak that big will run you $50 minimum. 


The other option is to completely tear out the railing up to the wall, and spindals, replace the bottom tread, refinish the entire stair case (strip and stain) then do a new modern railing or metal even. It looks nice now but the design is dated. Not sure what your tastes are.

Sometimes starting from scratch is much easier than trying to make it work and look good. Costs more but you will have more satisfaction.


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