# Separating ABS fitting



## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

As per my previous thread: http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=21519&highlight=fitting

This is what I have to work with. I need to separate and replace this fitting as it was previously leaking. How can I separate this as the pipe disappears into the concrete?


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

That is going to be a challenge. You can't remove the fitting without accessing the pipe underneath and making a cut. 

In order to do it right, rent a small demolition hammer (mini-jackhammer) and carefully knock out a little concrete around the pipe. Give yourself enough room to get all the way around it and make a clean cut, and glue in a new fitting.

Your only other option is finding a Fernco fitting that you could possibly attach to the outer hub of the leaking fitting. They make a lot of sizes...Check their website. Then you could transition back to the pipe above with the other end of the Fernco. I hate to see it done that way though.

Your best bet is to chip some concrete out.


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## plumber Jim (Mar 30, 2008)

You could cut the pipe out above the fitting just flush with the fitting the clean the old pipe out of the fitting with a fitting saver. I have never used one myself but i have heard they work. here is a link to a website that has them:

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

I've never seen one of those! Nifty Idea.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

plumber Jim said:


> You could cut the pipe out above the fitting just flush with the fitting the clean the old pipe out of the fitting with a fitting saver. I have never used one myself but i have heard they work. here is a link to a website that has them:
> 
> http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html


Someone else recommended the same thing to me today, I will have to try and track one down tomorrow.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Keep in mind while using a fitting saver....

1 : If you don't go completely straight with it, you will blow out the side of the hub and your fitting will be useless.

2 : It's not going to be a perfect size when you are done. It will be sloppy, so use LOTS AND LOTS OF GLUE inside the hub, and on the pipe.


Sometimes if a fitting is leaky, it could have a weak glue joint, and you might be able to split the pipe out of the fitting with a chisel. 

Fitting saver is a little safer however, as long as you don't blow through the hub. Worst case scenario is a little concrete work. :yes:


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Don't use a powerful drill with those fitting savers, (rambits), you want a drill that you can control the speed, constant pressure at a slow speed is the key. There a poor design and you can strip out the tool very easy.


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## mstplumber (May 3, 2008)

n0c7,
There is another tool called a "Pipe Hog" that is made specifically for removing PVC or ABS pipe from a fitting. It has a guide that fits inside the pipe to keep things straight. You do still have to be careful but I have used Pipe Hogs for several years with no problems. A 3" Pipe Hog will cost around $60, which is probably less than the jackhammer rental. Pipe Hogs are made by Wheeler:

http://www.wheelerrex.com/pages/literaturegallery/PDF/16010-16150Pipehog.pdf

Like Alan said, you can also try to chip the pipe out of the fitting. To do this you would cut the pipe flush with the top of the fitting, carefully make a couple of vertical cuts in the remaining pipe (making sure to cut through the pipe but not the fitting) and then use a couple of thin flat screwdrivers to chip/peel the pipe out of the fitting. You have to tap the screwdrivers into the glue joint between the pipe and the fitting and slowly work your way around until the pipe is loosened and you can remove it. I have done this more times than I can count, but there is always the risk that the fitting will crack from the pressure. I definitely prefer the Pipe Hog.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Ok guys, quite a few options. My next biggest question is I will need to make two cuts - one at the fitting and one a couple feet above so I can remove the section of the pipe. I cannot remove the entire pipe as it disappears somewhere above into the other walls. How do I install the new section? I bought a new 2ft ABS pipe to work with. I'm trying to wrap my head around how I'll have enough leverage to insert the new pipe into the fitting in the concrete and still have enough room to work with above to connect the old and new pipe together.....


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## mstplumber (May 3, 2008)

n0c7,

The simplest way is to use a "no hub" coupling. This consists of a rubber type sleeve wrapped in stainless steel with a big stainless steel hose clamp on each end. Home Depot and the like usually sells them. They are approved by most codes for above ground use.

You should have enough flexibility in the pipe to push it to the side enough to get the new pipe into the fitting. Measure carefully and cut the replacement pipe about 1/4" shorter than your measurement. Before installing the new pipe, slide the stainless steel sleeve up onto the existing (top) pipe, then put the rubber sleeve on the top pipe and roll the bottom part of the sleeve back on itself so it will allow the new pipe to fit. Install the new pipe, allow the top pipe to swing back into place (you may have to work with the rubber sleeve a little) , slide the stainless sleeve down into place and tighten the hose clamps securely.

The advantage of using a No Hub Bandin your situation is that you don't have any room for up and down movement of the pipe. The No Hub allows you to just swing the upper pipe out of the way, install the new pipe easily and then swing the upper pipe back into position.

You could also use a slip coupling but that's pretty tricky with a glue joint. It is sometimes very hard to get everything back together and get the coupling back into the correct position before the glue starts holding. I would use a No Hub in your situation every time.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Is the no hub coupling you speak of the same thing as a fernco/rubber hose with clamps deal? If so I'm scared that they'll leak... I would much prefer a glued joint, but as mentioned it'll be damn hard to glue it all together. CAn the no hub coupling have some glue applied as well to help make a bond?


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

n0c7 said:


> Is the no hub coupling you speak of the same thing as a fernco/rubber hose with clamps deal? If so I'm scared that they'll leak... I would much prefer a glued joint, but as mentioned it'll be damn hard to glue it all together. CAn the no hub coupling have some glue applied as well to help make a bond?


This is a no hub

A fernco is much thicker rubber.


No glue on the no-hub. It won't leak.

What the no hub allows you to do is fold the rubber back over itself, and fit the pipe inbetween the other two sections. Once you have done that, fold the rubber back over the other side of the cut, and slide the metal sleeve onto it and tighten' 'er down.


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## mstplumber (May 3, 2008)

The No Hub is similar to a Fernco but the rubber is thinner and there is a stainless steel sleeve which wraps around the rubber. You can be completely comfortable using a No Hub. They are installed in multi million dollar buildings all across the USA. In fact, they are the primary connectors for cast iron piping. 

As I said, they are approved by most plumbing codes (I say most because even though I don't know of any code that doesn't allow them there might be one somewhere) for above ground, concealed installations. This means they can be installed inside walls and ceilings. 

Several manufacturers make them, here's a link to Fernco's version so you can see what they look like:

http://www.fernco.com/NH.asp

Also, there is no need or benefit to putting glue on the No Hub, they work just the way they are made. One thing though, there are some I have seen that have a mesh sleeve instead of a solid stainless steel sleeve and I would not recommend those kind. Just make sure yours have a solid stainless sleeve and you'll be fine.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Alright, almost have my plan of action. Will use my new 2ft piece of ABS pipe, a no-hub connector, the only issue that remains is removing the old pipe from the fitting. I cannot locate any rambit, pipehog, etc in town. I've called every plumbing supplier/distributor/hardware store that I can think of and most have only heard of these tools but do not carry them. On Wheeler-Rex's website they list 3 distributors for the pipehog none of which carry them or have heard of them.  And the websites either only ship to the US and not Canada and will definitely not have what I need here this weekend. What are my chances of breaking the fitting using the screwdriver/chisel and hammer method?

Going to visit the last largest plumbing supply store in town right now to see if they have it.


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## mstplumber (May 3, 2008)

since ABS is a little more flexible than PVC if you are careful you have a good chance of chipping the pipe out. You should have a "plan B" ready just in case. Did you Google Pipe Hog and see if any of the many online suppliers will ship to Canada?


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

mstplumber said:


> since ABS is a little more flexible than PVC if you are careful you have a good chance of chipping the pipe out. You should have a "plan B" ready just in case. Did you Google Pipe Hog and see if any of the many online suppliers will ship to Canada?


I've exhausted my options. Some of the suppliers will ship to Canada, unfortunately this pipe issue is holding back many other projects so I'm hoping to complete it this weekend. This pipe is located in my bedroom, so I've had to relocate alot of furniture to the other half of the basement which is waiting to have the popcorn ceiling sprayed. :laughing: In the meantime, we've got a fence to put up, 1/8 of siding left to put on the garage, a deck to build, entire house painting, old car to maintain, list goes on. Gotta love it and get er done. I'm going to cut it and try and chisel around. Be back in a few hours crying that I have to smash out concrete. :thumbup:


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Ok, good news. Was able to remove it with the screw driver method. I've recemented it. How long should I wait before I test the system? I don't want the sump to overflow.

Pics to follow.


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## mstplumber (May 3, 2008)

n0c7,
Ordinarily I'd say give it about an hour. I think the glue can will say to wait lots longer than that. However, since you have had to chip it out and since ABS glue is a cement, not a solvent like PVC, I would wait at least a couple of hours or as long as you can stand it. That's probably overkill but you don't want to have to re-do this. 
Great job chipping it out! That is an essential skill that some professional plumbers I've met don't know how to do.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

mstplumber said:


> n0c7,
> Ordinarily I'd say give it about an hour. I think the glue can will say to wait lots longer than that. However, since you have had to chip it out and since ABS glue is a cement, not a solvent like PVC, I would wait at least a couple of hours or as long as you can stand it. That's probably overkill but you don't want to have to re-do this.
> Great job chipping it out! That is an essential skill that some professional plumbers I've met don't know how to do.


Thanks for the compliments. Been told I'm obsessive and persistent a few times. :laughing:


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

n0c7 said:


> Thanks for the compliments. Been told I'm obsessive and persistent a few times. :laughing:


That definitely looks like a bad glue joint!!! No way that should have come out so cleanly, but good job!!!! 

I would let the glue go for at least an hour, but depending on how sloppy it was when you put the pipe back in, it definitely wouldn't be a bad idea to add some time there....


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

*Final results:*










A little sloppy with the ABS cement, but I figured after all of this MORE was better than less. Let it dry for 5 hours and then pressure tested it. Ran the garden hose into the sump for about 20 minutes, and the sump has also run numerous times throughout last night and today and no leaks at all.

I appreciate everyone's advice and help, very much appreciated.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Have to say, I have never seen green ABS cement. I guess thats for people who want that psychadellic look on their drains/vents. :wink::thumbup:

Good work.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Alan said:


> Have to say, I have never seen green ABS cement. I guess thats for people who want that psychadellic look on their drains/vents. :wink::thumbup:
> 
> Good work.


It's actually yellow, but I guess the contrast of it being semi-transparent with the black ABS pipe make it look a bit green. It was definitely yellow out of the container and you can see the drips on the concrete are yellow.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

I have never seen yellow ABS glue, but there is yellow CPVC Glue, you sure it said for ABS show us a picture of the can.


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## n0c7 (May 15, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> I have never seen yellow ABS glue, but there is yellow CPVC Glue, you sure it said for ABS show us a picture of the can.


Yep, It's Oatey's brand and definitely says ABS cement on it. They also carry glue for PVC and CPVC as well and I made certain I bought the right stuff.


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