# Kitchen ceiling paint is peeling in sheets!



## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

OMG! I was installing recessed lights and then I found out that the kitchen ceiling paint was peeling in sheets! The current coat of paint doesn't stick to the previous paint at all. You can just peel them in large sheets. See photos. How bad is this? Is it common?

This is my own kitchen. I bought this house 6 months ago and the selling agent has done some cosmetic "cover-ups" before listing the house.

What is my options?

1) Peel a small area of it and then patch up the wall and pretend nothing has happened. :whistling2:

2) Peel the whole kitchen ceiling, prime and then paint?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Cheap paint applied to get a quick sell. Looks like they painted right over a Semi-gloss without sanding and applying a bonding primer. Looks like you will be able to get the current coat off rather easily. Once you peel it all off, scuff sand the ceiling, remove dust, apply bonding primer and 2 finish coats and you will be good to go.


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

I feel for you! But you won't have much left on the ciling after pulling it all down: it could be worse (a lot worse)

Sometimes I swear that last-minute pre-sale touchups are the worst thing: people don't have to live with their knee-jerk work.


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

Gymschu said:


> Cheap paint applied to get a quick sell. Looks like they painted right over a Semi-gloss without sanding and applying a bonding primer. Looks like you will be able to get the current coat off rather easily. Once you peel it all off, scuff sand the ceiling, remove dust, apply bonding primer and 2 finish coats and you will be good to go.


Is sanding a must for painting on semi-glass paint? Or is it just optional. I will definitely use primer. But sanding the ceiling is a big job - pain in the neck, literally.:laughing:

BTW, I tried sanding it with 120 grit sand paper just now. The original layer of paint is pretty slippery. I can't seem to get any traction on it and thus I can't sand the original paint surface unless I do it really hard.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

If you get a hand sander or a pole sander it will actually go quick. it is insurance- you don't have to sand hard, just scuff the gloss so the new paint has something to grip to- prime with a -bonding- primer- Zin 123, gripper, BM first coat etc.
Just read you edit- I bet the paint is an oil; gloss- makes the scuffing even more important.


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

yea go for it :yes: a spray bottle of warm water may help.try and peel paint off as big pieces as you can.be careful when you get to where the ceiling meets the wall use a single edge razor and cut it off clean . if the ceiling is this way the wall might be to:furious:. .for this i would go with zinsser cover stain. its a oil base bonding primer .or you could use something like zinsser 123 water base .but seeing your problem you still have to clean ,rinse.lightly scuff sand.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

htabbas said:


> Is sanding a must for painting on semi-glass paint? Or is it just optional. I will definitely use primer. But sanding the ceiling is a big job - pain in the neck, literally.:laughing:
> 
> BTW, I tried sanding it with 120 grit sand paper just now. The original layer of paint is pretty slippery. I can't seem to get any traction on it and thus I can't sand the original paint surface unless I do it really hard.


That paper is too fine, pole sand with 80 grit:yes: ,as brush said prime it also , it looks like oil to me.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

You don't really need to scuff sand over semi-gloss if you use a decent quality primer.

I would guess that the old semi-gloss is oil-based? Scuff-sanding is a good idea before applying water-based products to ensure adhesion; but if not sanding, use a premium adhesion/all-purpose primer.

An oil or oil-hybrid primer is often great in kitchens to cover stains/yellowing and get a nice clean white ceiling, in addition to great adhesion, FYI.


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

I have spent ~6 hours trying to peel the paint off but I am only able to get about 50% of them off. In some areas, the paint is not easily peeled off you have to scrub it hard to get it off. In other areas, the paint sticks very well. What is my options at this point? Please advise. I am almost breaking down mentally.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Gymschu said:


> Cheap paint applied to get a quick sell. * Looks like they painted right over a Semi-gloss without sanding and applying a bonding primer. * Looks like you will be able to get the current coat off rather easily. Once you peel it all off, scuff sand the ceiling, remove dust, apply bonding primer and 2 finish coats and you will be good to go.


Sure looks like that's the culprit.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

Does the paint come off more near to where cooking grease rises off the stove? Could be the difference...paint doesn't stick well to dirt.

In anycase, the areas where the paint sticks well:

- Have you scraped with a metal scraper or putty knife?
- You can try using a heat gun to help loosen the paint while scraping, or also try using water/ soapy water to soften it (in a spray bottle or with a sponge, etc)
- if none of that works, just try to scrape down to flat sections of paint, and you could skim coat to smooth out the ridge. if you cant scrape the paint off, it is likely to stay!


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

No, the paint doesn't seem to peel off any easier near to where cooking area. Actually, it comes off easiest just above the dining table.

I spent another 6 hours scrubbing last night and have gotten about 80% of the ceiling off. Some of the remaining section sticks pretty well, others simply I don't have the patience to do it any more. 

I am using a metal scrapper to do the job.

Thanks a lot for all the input. This is indeed a depressing job.



ARC Painting said:


> Does the paint come off more near to where cooking grease rises off the stove? Could be the difference...paint doesn't stick well to dirt.
> 
> In anycase, the areas where the paint sticks well:
> 
> ...


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Take a 2 by 4 up side the selling agents head,you will feel better.
You ae at the point now of just skimming over the edges of the paint that is still tight. Sand it down with 100 grit, re apply if needed,sand again, clean all the dust off, apply a good bonding primer( Bullseye123), paint.


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

chrisn said:


> Take a 2 by 4 up side the selling agents head,you will feel better.
> You ae at the point now of just skimming over the edges of the paint that is still tight. Sand it down with 100 grit, re apply if needed,sand again, clean all the dust off, apply a good bonding primer( Bullseye123), paint.


Just finished the first skim coat. How long can I start sanding it down? I am using the quick mud 20 which cures in 20 minutes. And how do you dust off? I am afraid to wipe it. Can I use a compressor tank? Thanks!

Again, this is taking me ridiculous amount of time. I just wonder what would a contractor do if he encounters such situation.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

20 sands pretty tough. Are you putting a premixed over that for easier sanding? It can be second coated as soon as hard, but for sanding it needs to be completely dry, not just hard. If you are in a hurry, put a fan on it - that will speed up drying considerably.
Use a trouble light to sand- and a hand sander and a sponge ( med grit) and after you prime, look it over with the light again- you will for sure see things that will need a little touch up. 

If you have a shop vac- you can put a wide tool on it and vac off the dust. you will need it for clean up anyway. 

If I as a pro I did this i think it would be done very much faster because i would know what to do and how to do it, and have the tools to do it with. 
I have done similar jobs hundreds of times. 
I guess thats what makes pros.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Brushjockey said:


> 20 sands pretty tough. Are you putting a premixed over that for easier sanding? It can be second coated as soon as hard, but for sanding it needs to be completely dry, not just hard. If you are in a hurry, put a fan on it - that will speed up drying considerably.
> Use a trouble light to sand- and a hand sander and a sponge ( med grit) and after you prime, look it over with the light again- you will for sure see things that will need a little touch up.
> 
> If you have a shop vac- you can put a wide tool on it and vac off the dust. you will need it for clean up anyway.
> ...


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## packer_rich (Jan 16, 2011)

Did you use the easy sand 20? White bag, not brown.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

keep in mind that you can use a flat ceiling paint and this will hide imperfections, so you can get away with some faint ridges of former paint.

dont' forget to prime the mudded areas well, you want to build up the paint over the mud to achieve a similar texture to the rest of the ceiling i.e. the texture of rolled on paint.

We might be faster, but this kind of thing is hard work for pros to, don't worry. good luck!


/"mud" = skim-coat compound


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

ARC Painting said:


> keep in mind that you can use a flat ceiling paint and this will hide imperfections, so you can get away with some faint ridges of former paint.
> 
> dont' forget to prime the mudded areas well, you want to build up the paint over the mud to achieve a similar texture to the rest of the ceiling i.e. the texture of rolled on paint.
> 
> ...



Actually, I see a lot of you guys are like the "real pros". However, in real life, I have never met one myself. For the past 6 months of remodeling my newly-bought 60-year old house, I changed from a hands-off person to a DIY-er, mainly because I think I could do a much better/cleaner job than any of the contractors that I have hired. I don't know where to hire the real pros. The contractor who built my new addition said he never prime before he paint. He said what I read from the internet was just false. LOL.


The projects that I have paid somebody to do were: kitchen remodeling, new roof, all windows change, garage door change, garage drywall, some electrical wiring, build a 400-sq-ft addition to the house, some gardening work, some plumbing work, some stucco repair work.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, that's unfortunate. But its true that for every 'true pro' there are probably several hack-job-joes, and it takes a bit of research to find the good ones...

The guy who said he doesn't prime before painting new drywall falls into the latter category.(assuming he drywalled and painted your addition) I hope you don't have peeling walls in the next few years!


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## htabbas (Oct 25, 2011)

ARC Painting said:


> Well, that's unfortunate. But its true that for every 'true pro' there are probably several hack-job-joes, and it takes a bit of research to find the good ones...
> 
> The guy who said he doesn't prime before painting new drywall falls into the latter category.(assuming he drywalled and painted your addition) *I hope you don't have peeling walls in the next few years!*


That is what I am worrying about. I argued with him several times about this priming thing. He refuted citing that during all of his 20 years of working as a contractor, he has never used primer and never got any problems. He is giving me 5 year warranty on the paint job BTW.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Although I do recommend using actual primer for new sheetrock, with most of the acrylic paints now that claim" paint and primer " ( see the thread about that here) , going straight on new rock does actually work. 
If one is using a quality , and more expensive finish coat, it ,make sense to use a primer meant for the job and save the good stuff for when it counts.
if one is using cheap, who cares...
But chances are for that you will be OK. 
Do see the thread about the all in one though. Very informative.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

Its true, it will work to use a paint-primer-in-one type product, but this is not ideal. Stand-alone primer, then paint is always better, and drywall primer is cheap anyway. Contractors might save time by using one paint, but its really cutting corners overall IMO. I agree with Brushjockey, it doesn't make sense to waste quality paint to seal drywall as it will absorb it and require significantly more paint. But then if the guy used a cheap paint directly, then the issue might be durability of the finish as well...


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

htabbas said:


> That is what I am worrying about. I argued with him several times about this priming thing. He refuted citing that during all of his 20 years of working as a contractor, he has never used primer and never got any problems. He is giving me 5 year warranty on the paint job BTW.


 
Get that in writing and read the fine print:yes:


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