# Mysterious wall columns where room is extended



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> I'm painting a bedroom in my house, patching up and repairing all the drywall and baseboards before I get started. This room is very long and narrow because the entire back of the house was extended about 12 feet a few decades ago. In the middle of the room along the walls, exactly where the original room ended,
> 
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> 
> ...


 You said addition, I would guess it is holding up a beam that is supporting the edge of the original roof. 

Is it wrapped in drywall. It can be if it isn't.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

This is the exposed inside where the brace was removed. It appears that it was wrapped in a norma sized layer of drywall, and then a very thin layer of drywall ontop of the brace and around the whole thing. I have no idea how this was done or how it would be repaired honestly. 








different angle.

I have never seen anything like this thin layer of what is apparently drywall before.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This brace you had what does it look like?


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

These are on the inside sandwiched between a thick normal layer of drywall and what appears to be a thin layer of drywall, though I have no idea what it actually is or how that was done. You can see them bulging and cracking off the column in the first picture.


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Looks like corner bead.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gibralt...zed-Steel-Drywall-Corner-Bead-10524/100356006


Attached with screws or nails and then feathered to the rest of the wall with joint compound.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Sounds correct, that's one thing with a clear name now. I'm not sure how I'd refer to the thing the bead is supporting if I were to describe this situation to someone over the phone, right now I'm referring to it as some sort of "wall column."


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> Sounds correct, that's one thing with a clear name now. I'm not sure how I'd refer to the thing the bead is supporting if I were to describe this situation to someone over the phone, right now I'm referring to it as some sort of "wall column."


 They tried to cover the post with filler only. 

I would strip it down to wood and see what you have there and then cover it with new drywall and and use the newer paper faced corner beads.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Wait so you mean that they just mounted the corner beads and covered the entire thing top to bottom in drywall filler? That sounds absurd lmao but I believe it. I wonder how they would even get it flat enough to function.










This is what the ceiling section of it looks like, am I probably right in assuming that it would be a bad idea to just knock that out to rebuild it?


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Plastic bead but you get the idea of how the joint compound is applied and makes it look like part of the wall.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You may want to re do the face if the header or beam too.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

I'm not totally sure what either of those are. By header you mean the ceiling part?


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> They tried to cover the post with filler only.
> 
> I would strip it down to wood and see what you have there and then cover it with new drywall and and use the newer paper faced corner beads.


How would you recommend I actually take this column apart? Seems like the drywall is in there pretty solidly, not sure if just smacking it with a hammer is ideal or not.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> How would you recommend I actually take this column apart? Seems like the drywall is in there pretty solidly, not sure if just smacking it with a hammer is ideal or not.


Just for the dry, if you can't find screws or nails, hack and wack will do. :biggrin2:


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Sounds good :thumbup:


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

After watching hours of videos and doing a few drywalls repairs (making me an expert lol) IMO I think you could leave the column structure alone and just focus on the surface repair. They make wide corner beads which might help cover that sandwich layer of drywall/plywood, but I expect you would achieve an easier and better end result if you first tried to fix the open side of that sandwich. Using something like Durabond which can go on thick to fill in and roughly level out that short wall face. Then add a corner bead and do your normal finishing steps for a nice cosmetic finish. 

That said, the wall there does look strange, why is it layered like that? At first I thought it was there to hide a vertical beam used to support the header, but it also seems that it was built out even further for cosmetic reasons??? to act as a room divider? Of course it is up to you as to whether you want to tear it apart down and/or build it back up. To see if the bump in the room can be trimmed down or not. 

Also looks like the header wall will need some repairs, that crack in the drywall is pointing to structural settling to investigate while you are at it.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

RustNeverSleeps said:


> After watching hours of videos and doing a few drywalls repairs (making me an expert lol) IMO I think you could leave the column structure alone and just focus on the surface repair.


I busted the column open, it seems like the drywall structure on the side of the original room is some weird combination of drywall + plaster + more drywall compound layers, it's extremely wide, meanwhile then side of the column on the side of the addition is just one flat even layer of drywall. I'm frankly not even sure how I could rebuild this.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

This is what the column looks like after ripping off the face drywall and the corner beads. The drywall on the right is 1/2 inch thick and screwed directly to the beam, the left sandwich is 1 inch thick and sits a total of 1-1/2 inch off the beam. I'm not really sure how I could rebuild this.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> This is what the column looks like after ripping off the face drywall and the corner beads. The drywall on the right is 1/2 inch thick and screwed directly to the beam, the left sandwich is 1 inch thick and sits a total of 1-1/2 inch off the beam. I'm not really sure how I could rebuild this.


Is it all solid in place? You could just put a new full width piece on this face and add new corner beads. The old beads needed nails or screws and there was nothing to screw too. Use the new bead that just goes on with mud.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

When they cut open the old exterior wall it looks like they flushed the opening with the old drywall, and didn't set the new wall framing back 1/2" so the entire wall finish (old and new wall planes) would be flush. They just built out a pilaster with whatever was laying around to hide this transition.

I would keep a pilaster on both sides of the opening, it makes sense with the header and might better hide the crack you will get between old and new. I'd put two 2x's though making the pilaster 3.5" sticking out in total if covered with drywall. 

If you want, you can case the opening with trim if you don't like or have the handiwork with the cornerbead.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

3onthetree said:


> I'd put two 2x's though making the pilaster 3.5" sticking out in total if covered with drywall.


Seems like that is already exactly what happened. Underneath the face drywall when I tore it off is two back to back 2x4s, they measure about 3-1/4" off the original room wall and 2-1/4" off the addition wall. I wasn't planning on removing them, just rebuilding them because the corner beads were cracking off and they are separating from the walls with the house shifting. 

Here is what they look like at the top corners:
















How might I rebuild it so that these gaps are all closed successfully?


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

CleanTony said:


> How might I rebuild it so that these gaps are all closed successfully?


Good question, that is a lot of movement. Have no idea how the foundations were done/existing house, how the roofs were tied in, or the walls (I see the stud was kept about 3/8" or so away from the old exterior sheathing - I think that's what the pic in post #18 shows).


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I think all the drywall should be removed to see what is happening
It looks like something is moving, Have you looked around the outside for strange things happening?


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

3onthetree said:


> Good question, that is a lot of movement. Have no idea how the foundations were done/existing house, how the roofs were tied in, or the walls (I see the stud was kept about 3/8" or so away from the old exterior sheathing - I think that's what the pic in post #18 shows).





Nealtw said:


> I think all the drywall should be removed to see what is happening
> It looks like something is moving, Have you looked around the outside for strange things happening?


So I went outside to take a picture of the crack in the exterior wall... I did not recall it ever being quite this bad, sorry for the house maintenance gore.









If I owned this house I would be deeply disturbed by this. For now this isn't my property and I'm going to be moving out in a few years, and am too broke to fix it even if it was my property, apologies to the perfectionists, but fixing that is completely out of the question for me. 

I need some way to make the interior look decent...as though the house is not splitting in half...


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> So I went outside to take a picture of the crack in the exterior wall... I did not recall it ever being quite this bad, sorry for the house maintenance gore.
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> ...


The house is splitting in half and you need to warn the landlord. It is in desperate need of an engineer now. I would be making that move sooner than later. I would not do any more inside, the engineer will want to see it.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> The house is splitting in half and you need to warn the landlord. It is in desperate need of an engineer now. I would be making that move sooner than later. I would not do any more inside, the engineer will want to see it.


I understand. The person who owns this property has autism and is absurdly unreasonably when it comes to things like this, it will not happen. He's family, I can't sue him to make it happen, or force him to do it, it's weird, it's sad, I know, his house will probably have severe structural problems, I get it, but he will never do anything about it and I don't have to the resources or the responsibility to do it myself. Moving out sooner is also not an option for me as I'm going to school and am living here rent-free. 

In the mean-time, I'm in a room with an extremely poor paintjob, I have a budget of about $150, I need to make it look nicer before September, and I need to fix these columns up enough to paint them before I can paint them. This is full degenerate mode basically.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> I understand. The person who owns this property has autism and is absurdly unreasonably when it comes to things like this, it will not happen. He's family, I can't sue him to make it happen, or force him to do it, it's weird, it's sad, I know, his house will probably have severe structural problems, I get it, but he will never do anything about it and I don't have to the resources or the responsibility to do it myself. Moving out sooner is also not an option for me as I'm going to school and am living here rent-free.
> 
> In the mean-time, I'm in a room with an extremely poor paintjob, I have a budget of about $150, I need to make it look nicer before September, and I need to fix these columns up enough to paint them before I can paint them. This is full degenerate mode basically.


 Did you look at the roofing to see if that i pulling apart too.
This could be a safety issue for your safety and if you have roof leaks you could be looking at mold issues too. I really don't know what you should do.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> Did you look at the roofing to see if that i pulling apart too.
> This could be a safety issue for your safety and if you have roof leaks you could be looking at mold issues too. I really don't know what you should do.


The roofing is a whole different ****show of its own, it's been overdue for new shingles for probably 10+ years and I think he is planning on doing it next year. I'm not worried about my health because of the addition of the house sinking a bit, it's on a different foundation from the original house so that's not super surprising, people have lived in much worse houses than this for decades. 

For me this is purely pragmatic, these columns are splitting away from the wall in a way that makes it awful looking and hard to paint. What's the best way of rebuilding it to make it look nice? Perhaps caulking the corners that are splitting?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> The roofing is a whole different ****show of its own, it's been overdue for new shingles for probably 10+ years and I think he is planning on doing it next year. I'm not worried about my health because of the addition of the house sinking a bit, it's on a different foundation from the original house so that's not super surprising, people have lived in much worse houses than this for decades.
> 
> For me this is purely pragmatic, these columns are splitting away from the wall in a way that makes it awful looking and hard to paint. What's the best way of rebuilding it to make it look nice? Perhaps caulking the corners that are splitting?


The beam above that is holding the older roof up, it's a gamble to say it will stay put.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> The beam above that is holding the older roof up, it's a gamble to say it will stay put.


I'm not messing around with any of the structural components, I'm just working with the cosmetic drywall surrounding it. My main problems are figuring out how to seal the corners so they are level and even, and spacing the drywall around the studs so that there is no gap between the wall and the columns. Sounds really simple but honestly I have no idea how to do it. 

As for the actual safety I think there is essentially 0% risk of anything happening to me, it took decades for the addition to sink this much and it apparently hasn't shifted significantly in years. Either way, if I'm wrong I don't have a real choice anyway so if by some really unpleasant miracle the roof collapses while I'm sleeping and kills me, there's less interesting ways to die, lol.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> I'm not messing around with any of the structural components, I'm just working with the cosmetic drywall surrounding it. My main problems are figuring out how to seal the corners so they are level and even, and spacing the drywall around the studs so that there is no gap between the wall and the columns. Sounds really simple but honestly I have no idea how to do it.
> 
> As for the actual safety I think there is essentially 0% risk of anything happening to me, it took decades for the addition to sink this much and it apparently hasn't shifted significantly in years. Either way, if I'm wrong I don't have a real choice anyway so if by some really unpleasant miracle the roof collapses while I'm sleeping and kills me, there's less interesting ways to die, lol.


Have you worked with drywall at all?


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

Given your situation I would consider just being pragmatic and following the advice in post #19. And maybe caulk that gap where it meets the long side wall, and repaint so it is all the same color. There is not much point in trying to properly fix this cosmetic issue before the structural issues are addressed. Even if you fix it perfectly, it will not last if the house is still moving. 

You probably don't need me to say it, but if I were in your situation I would try to talk to other family members. Especially someone who might be a guardian of the owner or has some influence with them. Whatever value the structure has now will quickly erode if it is not fixed. The gap in the wall will allow water and insect penetration. But it cannot be fixed until the foundation issue is corrected.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> Have you worked with drywall at all?


Not very much but I have helped drywall a basement before and I have decent general carpentry experience. If both sides of this column were just one flat piece of drywall screwed into the stud and then connected straight to the wall with no gaps, I could do that myself no problem without help. I have never encountered anything like this weird plaster sandwich on one side of it though, I don't know how I would compensate for a gap like that.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

RustNeverSleeps said:


> Given your situation I would consider just being pragmatic and following the advice in post #19. And maybe caulk that gap where it meets the long side wall, and repaint so it is all the same color. There is not much point in trying to properly fix this cosmetic issue before the structural issues are addressed. Even if you fix it perfectly, it will not last if the house is still moving.
> 
> You probably don't need me to say it, but if I were in your situation I would try to talk to other family members. Especially someone who might be a guardian of the owner or has some influence with them. Whatever value the structure has now will quickly erode if it is not fixed. The gap in the wall will allow water and insect penetration. But it cannot be fixed until the foundation issue is corrected.


I think this is what I will roughly do, there's just some weird intricacies about it, for example, should I attempt to crack off the small layer of joint compound that covers the sides that are already built out of drywall and redo the compound so it is level with the wall instead of bulging off at a weird angle, or should I just tear the face off, put a new one on, and level just the corners so that they are level with where the old compound ended? 

How about this place where the front layer of compound is peeling off (that crack isn't structural)







. Peel off that section only and spackle level, or tear it apart and then do it from scratch? I have very limited experience with this so I feel like some of these questions would be an simple one or the other to someone familiar with it, but a mystery for a noob like me.

On the subject of the stubborn owner, he's literally the kind of guy who has refused to go to the dentist for over 25 years despite having multiple visibly cracked teeth and chronic tooth pain, I have already come to terms with that he is just beyond social pressure. My strategy is just to get out as soon as possible and take good care of my own house when I get one


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CleanTony said:


> Not very much but I have helped drywall a basement before and I have decent general carpentry experience. If both sides of this column were just one flat piece of drywall screwed into the stud and then connected straight to the wall with no gaps, I could do that myself no problem without help. I have never encountered anything like this weird plaster sandwich on one side of it though, I don't know how I would compensate for a gap like that.


That might bet the original stucco from the outside of the house. You may have to pre drill that to get the screws in. You can get drywall screws up to 3" long so that's not a problem.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

Nealtw said:


> That might bet the original stucco from the outside of the house. You may have to pre drill that to get the screws in. You can get drywall screws up to 3" long so that's not a problem.


It's not stucco it's just plaster, there is a hole in one of the walls on the original side of the bedroom and it's layered exactly the same way pretty much: appears to be drywall > plaster > drywall compound. Screwing drywall into it is not complicated of course, I probably would not even need to screw anything into that sandwich in the first place, I could just screw the drywall into the wood like the piece I pulled off was already. I was referring to ripping out the sandwich and replacing it with drywall without creating a 1" gap between the wall and the column.


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

CleanTony said:


> I think this is what I will roughly do, there's just some weird intricacies about it, for example, should I attempt to crack off the small layer of joint compound that covers the sides that are already built out of drywall and redo the compound so it is level with the wall instead of bulging off at a weird angle, or should I just tear the face off, put a new one on, and level just the corners so that they are level with where the old compound ended?
> 
> How about this place where the front layer of compound is peeling off (that crack isn't structural)
> 
> ...


 I would certainly try to remove any loose material and try to remove/scrape/sand high spots before starting. In that photo it looks possibly like tape from the old drywall finish job as separated and pulled off the wall?? which is not surprising given that something had to give when the header moved. I would pull it off any loose section.

If I were in your situation (meaning trying to just get to some basic cosmetic fixes so the problems are not so glaring) I would get some all purpose joint compound (regular or lightweight) and tape and redo the sections which are lifting or tearing. Maybe gouge out that around that crack going up the ceiling and tape over it too as part of refinishing.

There is a lot of information online about taping, but here is one on flat taping which might help you for this project:


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

RustNeverSleeps said:


> If I were in your situation (meaning trying to just get to some basic cosmetic fixes so the problems are not so glaring) I would get some all purpose joint compound (regular or lightweight) and tape and redo the sections which are lifting or tearing. Maybe gouge out that around that crack going up the ceiling and tape over it too as part of refinishing.


Can you help me figure out more specifically what you mean by that? Do you mean basically rip off all the loose hanging material around that vertical crack, cover all the now-exposed material underneath with joint compound, and tape it overlapping where the new compound is and where the old paint ended? Not exactly sure where I would actually tape in a situation like this.

Would it make sense to do basically the same thing where the wall connects to the column and it appears to be bunching up? Just chisel it away and redo the compound?


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

CleanTony said:


> Can you help me figure out more specifically what you mean by that? Do you mean basically rip off all the loose hanging material around that vertical crack, cover all the now-exposed material underneath with joint compound, and tape it overlapping where the new compound is and where the old paint ended? Not exactly sure where I would actually tape in a situation like this.
> 
> Would it make sense to do basically the same thing where the wall connects to the column and it appears to be bunching up? Just chisel it away and redo the compound?


It is hard to really say without looking at it first hand in person, but in general, I would answer Yes to all of this. Drywall finishing tape is 2 inches wide, so if the tearing and separating seams are 2" wide that would be a good confirmation of what has happened due to the movement. 

If you have large gaps once all the loose material is removed....gaps that should be filled with something hard (as compared to something soft like expanding foam), then that is where joint compounds like durabond or any of the quick setting (chemically setting) muds are useful. They will not shrink as much and you will not have to wait for days for them to dry. The all purpose compounds leave a better finish but need to go on relatively thin (say less that 1/8") so they can dry properly, so if you have a deep gap like 1/2" to fill it will take layer upon layer and a lot of time to dry in between. In your case I don't expect you will have any huge gaps, just pointing this issue out. 

Basically you should tape any where two different drywall surfaces meet. Where the mud is there to fill the gap, the tape to hide any cracks that might develop in that mud underneath, and then finish out the joint 12+ inches or wider on each side to end up with a wide thin tapered layer of mud so that the hump caused by the tape is no longer visible. 

You may or may not need to tape that irregular looking vertical crack in the header, but since the drywall has shifted/compressed/cracked there I would think it needs scraping, in which case the loose gypsum will start crumbling out, in which case you would want to remove all the loose material and then mud and tape over as it now like having separate sheets of drywall. 

Once you tear out that vertical seam along the wall you can use the paper tape to install a new corner. It may not be square so it may be difficult to get a great finish. But I think you are looking for something passable, which you should be able to achieve. To at least no longer have any gaps.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

RustNeverSleeps said:


> You may or may not need to tape that irregular looking vertical crack in the header, but since the drywall has shifted/compressed/cracked there I would think it needs scraping, in which case the loose gypsum will start crumbling out, in which case you would want to remove all the loose material and then mud and tape over as it now like having separate sheets of drywall.
> 
> Once you tear out that vertical seam along the wall you can use the paper tape to install a new corner. It may not be square so it may be difficult to get a great finish. But I think you are looking for something passable, which you should be able to achieve. To at least no longer have any gaps.


The vertical crack in the header is not actually a crack in drywall, it seems like when the corner beads along the bottom of the header shifted out a bit, the tape + compound around the corners peeled right off, and that is actually what cracked, so I can probably fix that just by peeling off that layer and rebuilding it with compound, I suppose it is not necessary for my purpose to rebuild the corner beads on the header. 

I think you're right about the vertical cracks along the wall, it appears to be bunching up like tape, and when I pull a chunk of it off it is papery but of course sandwiched in compound. 

I have two questions remaining: How would you go about physically tearing out the old corner where the wall meets the column? There is a 1/8" thick layer of compound all the way down the piece of drywall that composes the side of the column, and it appears there is warped tape all the way up the corner. Just chisel it all off and cut it? Perhaps leave the compound along the beam but just retape the very corner?

How about filling the actual corner in itself? The corner I believe goes in quite deep, maybe deeper than an inch. Would I have to fill all the way to the nearest hard surface inside the wall with compound, or would it make more sense to just run compound along the inside of the crack to fill it up, then tape it, then run over it with more compound, taper it, then paint? 

Thanks


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

CleanTony said:


> The vertical crack in the header is not actually a crack in drywall, it seems like when the corner beads along the bottom of the header shifted out a bit, the tape + compound around the corners peeled right off, and that is actually what cracked, so I can probably fix that just by peeling off that layer and rebuilding it with compound, I suppose it is not necessary for my purpose to rebuild the corner beads on the header.
> 
> I think you're right about the vertical cracks along the wall, it appears to be bunching up like tape, and when I pull a chunk of it off it is papery but of course sandwiched in compound.
> 
> ...


Yes, I would chisel/scrape out all that loose material in the corner. Perhaps get a 5-in-1 paint tool (if you do not already have one), as the point and beveled edge are good for getting under the old paper tape and into the corner. You can also use a wet cloth or sponge to help loosen the fibers in the paper tape and old drywall multipurpose mud as you scrape it clean. That should get you back to a firm surface to start over. 

I would not worry if the corner was deep, only if it was not too wide. When I was redoing my bathroom I could stick a pencil in a few of the cracks after the corner tape was removed (I believe they were 1/2" deep, or the thickness of the drywall). Just as long it is not so wide that the tape does not have enough surface area for the new mud to bind against the face of the drywall and hold in place. You could certainly try and see if that works and rip it out if it does not. You will have to use some care when you place and embed the tape, to keep the corner square and not tear it since there will be little physical support directly underneath it. But since you have small repair job I would try it. .....Maybe you are saying the same thing when you say "_make more sense to just run compound along the inside of the crack to fill it up, then tape it, then run over it with more compound, taper it, then paint_" though I would replace crack with corner, meaning the corner where the wall surfaces meet.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

RustNeverSleeps said:


> , then paint[/I]" though I would replace crack with corner, meaning the corner where the wall surfaces meet.


Yeah that's what I meant. I just looked at the inside with a flashlight, it is 1/2" deep to from the paint to the stud, and the gap in the corner is about 1/4" at its closest and about 1/2" at it's widest, so as long as it's taped I shouldn't have any problems. Thanks for the advice.


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## CleanTony (Jul 23, 2020)

I ran into two more weird problems in my reno project. 








, it seems a big chunk of the plaster got somehow smashed out. I have the drywall, tape, and joint compound to seal this, but the plaster is almost twice as thick as a piece of drywall, and there is another big gap between the plaster and the nearest piece of wood I could screw anything to. Any ideas on how to fix this up? 

Here, on one of the pilaster columns,







It also seems that the reason this happened is not because the house shifted only, but because the vapor barrier is so tight that the tension in the corner actually pulled the drywall off the wall. I have never worked with vapor barriers at all and really I have no idea what I can do about that, I appreciate any advice on this.


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## RustNeverSleeps (Sep 26, 2015)

You need to get some type of backing to help support the new drywall. You probably don't have a table saw to easily cut furring strips, but any kind of scrap wood would do to build out a few points for you new drywall to screw down into. 

For that first picture if the gap depth allows you could even install one layer of drywall and then add another on top. You just want something which can firmly support your new outer layer of drywall so that it is nearly flush. Once you complete the finishing steps of mudding and taping it will bond together strongly as if it were a single sheet. If you want a professional look you could install a L-bead where the drywall meets the wood.


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