# Cedar vs. Douglas Fir for exposed timber



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Often when they say "GREEN" wood they actually mean that it's green tinted by the Pressure Treatment. 

Especially if they are a little dense and young.

I usually go for REDWOOD myself, Yes it is a bit pricey, but Redwood, Cedar, Cypress, and a few others are the ones that naturally deter bugs eating them.

And PT green don't take a stain very well.


ED


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Douglas Fir does not Kiln Dry very well, particularly the Coastal DF. Not sure why. The newest process is to dry them in a Microwave-like Kiln.

Check with Fraser Wood Products out of Squamish, BC for dry Timbers.

www.fraserwoodindustries.com

Otherwise, find a small mill in the BC Interior where the owner will custom cut and ship them to you direct. They will know the dryness of the wood before they cut them.

*edit*

Let me know if you need a name or two and I will advise as requested.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

de-nagorg said:


> Often when they say "GREEN" wood they actually mean that it's green tinted by the Pressure Treatment.
> 
> Especially if they are a little dense and young.
> 
> ...


I don't think these need to be PT since they are all covered by the roof. Plus living in AZ, we get minimal rain. Thanks for the tip on PT not taking stain well. 

If the lumber I get is "green" and it's not PT, when I erect the structure, once the beams/columns are in place, they shouldn't shrink anymore where they'd seperate from the other members? I'm sure all wood shrink to some degree, but I don't want there to be gaps where the beams are lying on the column tops, etc...


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

If you are referring to "green" as undried lumber, it is going to shrink. 

So you may want to increase the budget, and shop for Cedar, Redwood, or another type.

Have you thought about Glu-Lam lumber, yes it is costly too, but is engineered to stay straight, non shrink, structure timbers. 

And try an internet search for lower cost than your local yard, often you can get cedar right from the mill, and delivered for close to half the cost of your local yard.


ED


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

de-nagorg said:


> often you can get cedar right from the mill, and delivered for close to half the cost of your local yard.


Close to half the cost? Id like to see some sources for that.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

kwikfishron said:


> Close to half the cost? Id like to see some sources for that.


Do your own research.

I did a short search, found a few, but I don't know where you are, and what you might want.


ED


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Looks like a local company uses D/F; http://unique-landscapes.com/landscape-pergolas-patio-covers.htm

Kiln dry doesn't move around after you frame with it and doesn't have bugs inside along with the Moisture Content is much lower, closer to local conditions; http://diy.dunnlumber.com/projects/know-the-difference-green-or-kiln-dried-lumber

Species shrinkage charts:http://www.nzwood.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/douglas-fir_stability.pdf

For your location to find percentage of shrinkage; http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/equilibrium_moisture_content.pdf

Gary


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Often when they say "GREEN" wood they actually mean that it's green tinted by the Pressure Treatment.


The difference is between "green wood" and "green Doug fir".
Green wood is about green PT wood and does not specify a species of wood.

Green Doug Fir is talking about non-kiln dried (higher moisture or "wet") Douglas fir.
Your lumber stamp for it is GDF, Green Doug Fir.

GDF is often used in timbers. The larger width dimension resists warping more than in 1x or 2x lumber. 

Kiln dried Doug fir timbers (KDDF) are also available. If the first yard doesn't have them, try another.


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

I wrapped my structural porch support in cedar 1x..


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

ryansdiydad said:


> I wrapped my structural porch support in cedar 1x..


That looks really good. I can't do that now since I didn't quite take into consideration the extra 1x.....

Is your built with green DF?


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

Oso954 said:


> Kiln dried Doug fir timbers (KDDF) are also available. If the first yard doesn't have them, try another.


I've tried all the yards but nobody has KDDF. They all thought I was nuts...As if they've never seen contractors buy it or something. 

They all said their DF moisture content is to code. Whatever that means. 

They also said the DF 8x8 are always grade 1 and the smaller ones are grade 2. All timbers are wrapped to ensure they stay straight and true...


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

Daugela said:


> That looks really good. I can't do that now since I didn't quite take into consideration the extra 1x.....
> 
> Is your built with green DF?


It's all SPF for framing around here.. I just wrapped the SPF in cedar... I'm sure if I used cedar timbers it would look better.. if I had to do it over again I would have changed a couple things but it looks ok enough...


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

ryansdiydad said:


> It's all SPF for framing around here.. I just wrapped the SPF in cedar... I'm sure if I used cedar timbers it would look better.. if I had to do it over again I would have changed a couple things but it looks ok enough...


Out of curiousity, how are those beams attached to the house? Are they sitting on 2xs inside the wall or some kind of bracket you concealed in your siding?


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

Daugela said:


> Out of curiousity, how are those beams attached to the house? Are they sitting on 2xs inside the wall or some kind of bracket you concealed in your siding?


They are attached with a structural bracket that is hidden under the siding and the cedar wrapping..


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

ryansdiydad said:


> They are attached with a structural bracket that is hidden under the siding and the cedar wrapping..


How does your siding cover the brackets? Especially if the brackets and nails come away from the wall, etc....Siding can't lay flush


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

The cedar wrap actually does most of the cover up... the siding and caulk at the seam does the rest...

It was wrapped first.. the cedar is 1x6 but the beam is 2 2x12s.. so the cedar box I build to cover the beam is wider on the outside edge than the nails holding the bracket...


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