# Just bought a foreclosed home,All Copper stolen, Should i replace or use PEX or PVC?



## JDC (Mar 11, 2008)

If it were me, I'd use CPVC (you cannot use PVC). While I like PEX better, if I were renovating a rental unit I'd go with the CPVC due to price considerations (I'd go with copper if it were a house I myself would be living in). CPVC is just cut and solvent weld it up. PEX is going to require some specialized tools that can be rented in most places. Now this is just a matter of opinion...all three, copper, PEX, or CPVC are fine products. You'll have plenty of life out of any one of them.

Of course keep your waterlines out of the exterior walls and even in those couple of months of below freezing temps you'll be fine.

Good luck


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

JDC said:


> you cannot use PVC


who says so? cpvc is for hot, pvc is for cold, no?

DM


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Dangermouse is correct, CPVC is only necessary for hot water, PVC can be used for cold water. However, you may want to do some research on the subject of chlorinated organic compounds which may be created by reaction of PVC (and especially CPVC) with water. Some people think these compounds are potentially hazardous.

PEX is an essentially inert plastic, much less likely to react with the water than PVC or CPVC. You do need special tools to make the fittings. I did my whole house with Wirdsbo PEX, and I bought the fitting tool, cost me several hundred dollars, but it sure beat running to the store to rent it each time I needed one.

I think copper is a good product, but only if you have water with a pH 7 or above. My water is well water, pH is about 4.5 to 5 (very acidic), and after 50 years it ate holes in all of my copper pipe and many of my fittings, thus necessitating total replacement. Of course, I could have put a pH adjustment tank in, but other than eating copper, I don't much care if my water is acidic, and PEX is inert to mildly acidic water such as mine, thus the choice.


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## plumber Jim (Mar 30, 2008)

If i had to choose between cpvc and pex i would use pex. I don't know about anyplace else but pvc for pressure is only allowed outside not inside around here.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Dangermouse is correct, CPVC is only necessary for hot water, PVC can be used for cold water. However, you may want to do some research on the subject of chlorinated organic compounds which may be created by reaction of PVC (and especially CPVC) with water. Some people think these compounds are potentially hazardous.
> 
> PEX is an essentially inert plastic, much less likely to react with the water than PVC or CPVC. You do need special tools to make the fittings. I did my whole house with Wirdsbo PEX, and I bought the fitting tool, cost me several hundred dollars, but it sure beat running to the store to rent it each time I needed one.
> 
> I think copper is a good product, but only if you have water with a pH 7 or above. My water is well water, pH is about 4.5 to 5 (very acidic), and after 50 years it ate holes in all of my copper pipe and many of my fittings, thus necessitating total replacement. Of course, I could have put a pH adjustment tank in, but other than eating copper, I don't much care if my water is acidic, and PEX is inert to mildly acidic water such as mine, thus the choice.


several hundred dollars? i paid like $75 for my crimper at menards! :laughing:


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## plumber Jim (Mar 30, 2008)

plummen said:


> several hundred dollars? i paid like $75 for my crimper at menards! :laughing:


You paid $75 for a wirsbo expander tool? I think thats what he is talking about. not a crimper.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

must be differant kind of pex,the stuff ive used just gets fitting shoved in and the collar crimped around it. :wink:


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## ehoez (May 12, 2008)

ya'll talking about this?

how much are they?


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## JDC (Mar 11, 2008)

Danger,

Who says so? The plumbing inspector. You can use it outside, but not inside....even for cold. Yes, there are differences in code around the country, but try it around my part of the world and see how fast that red sticker comes out of the inspector's clipboard.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Ehoez has the right picture, that is a Wirsbo expander tool. The PEX is the same as everyone else's PEX, however the fitting is quite different than the crimp type fitting used with the Menard tool. I don't think you are going to get a Wirsbo expander for less than a couple hundred dollars, but I haven't checked lately.

Which of course raises the question about what type of fitting is best used with PEX. I have never used the crimp type fittings, only the expansion type, however do check the history of Zurn fittings that failed due to problems with the brass. I beleive they were brass crimp fittings. This is the subject of a class action lawsuit. I now only use expansion type polybutyl fittings with my Wirsbo PEX, although Wirsbo does offer brass fittings as well. I got kind of spooked by the Zurn problem, so I stay away from brass now, although Uponor (they make Wirsbo) are not a subject of the suit.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

JDC said:


> Danger,
> 
> Who says so? The plumbing inspector. You can use it outside, but not inside....even for cold. Yes, there are differences in code around the country, but try it around my part of the world and see how fast that red sticker comes out of the inspector's clipboard.


evidently, Ohio has different rules than we have 100 miles away here.
the inspector himself told me pvc is fine for INDOOR cold, but cpvc is necessary for hot. ( I have the green sticker to prove it! lol)
If there's a difference or bursting problems, I haven't found it. However, I'm always open to change if it's safer or for the better. I'll be re-doing all the plumbing here this year, so I'm in the same boat as well, basically, though PEX is a bit out of my price range. Now, I'll likely use ALL cpvc for the new plumbing. So thanks to all who voice opinions pro and con!

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

wow! I just may end up going with pex after all... the tool purchases kinda scared me!
But after a quick look on Craigslist, I found lots of sets of pex crimpers for less than even ONE at store price!
3 different sized crimper tools for $75, (like new, hardly used, supposedly) seems do-able for me! I can just put them back on CL when I'm done too!
How does the price of the pex, foot for foot, compare with cpvc?
anyone?

DM


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## ehoez (May 12, 2008)

i found PEX prices @ for the blue

$30 for 100' and $90 for 300'

is the red higher priced? and what does oxygen and without oxygen mean?


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

What's this "special tool for pex" that everyone talks about? 
I've never used one - I have a basic pipe-cutter and I use sharkbites, I use screw-in U brackets to hold my pipes in place, voila.

But I live in a moderate-climate area with no rats and no one in code cares what I do - benefit of living in the country.


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## johnnyboy (Oct 8, 2007)

Like any other quality popular tool, you can buy it and should have no trouble recouping 70% of your investment selling it on ebay.


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## HooKooDooKu (Jan 7, 2008)

Not totally sure about codes, but based on my experience as a DIYer for an irrigation system, the industry consideres PVC to be inappropriate for indoor use. It's only considered reliable enough if it's burried (so it's primary application is in irrigation).

If it was me redoing all the plumbing in a home, I'd go with the PEX just because it seems like it would install faster. I've done the copper sweating and the PVC gluing, and it takes a lot of time doing all those joints, and getting pipe lengths just right. PEX on the other hand being bendable doesn't seem like things have to be so precise and you have fewer connections to make.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

HooKooDooKu said:


> Not totally sure about codes, but based on my experience as a DIYer for an irrigation system, the industry consideres PVC to be inappropriate for indoor use. It's only considered reliable enough if it's burried (so it's primary application is in irrigation).
> 
> If it was me redoing all the plumbing in a home, I'd go with the PEX just because it seems like it would install faster. I've done the copper sweating and the PVC gluing, and it takes a lot of time doing all those joints, and getting pipe lengths just right. PEX on the other hand being bendable doesn't seem like things have to be so precise and you have fewer connections to make.


 easy with words like doesnt have to be so precise,some of us are contractors here! :laughing:


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## HooKooDooKu (Jan 7, 2008)

plummen said:


> easy with words like doesnt have to be so precise,some of us are contractors here! :laughing:


I just ment that because PEX is so flexable, the run of the pipe doesn't have to be cut to just the right lengths as you try to locate the pipe quite as precisly as when working with hard pipe.

As an example, think of making a 90 degree turn to go up through a floor. With hard pipe, you've got to get the pipe just before the 90 degree elbow the right length so that after the elbow the next pipe will properly point toward the hole. But with PEX, you just push the pipe through the hole and pull it up as needed to make the corner.

I know that when I've been working with copper and PVC pipe, the thing I've hated the most is when I would have to do what I would call "precision plumbing". This would be when the exact location of where you're going with the pipe is already set and therefore you've got to get pipe lengths and angles just right to hit your target. By contrast, if you're doing irrigation work and you've got a 4 inch wide trench to work with, it doesn't matter as much when a pipe gets cut a 1/2" shorter going around a corner than you intended since you don't have to be dead center in the trench.


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## ehoez (May 12, 2008)

Do i use 3/8" for everything? or 1/2?


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Snav said:


> What's this "special tool for pex" that everyone talks about?
> I've never used one - I have a basic pipe-cutter and I use sharkbites, I use screw-in U brackets to hold my pipes in place, voila.


yeah, but a handful of sharkbites costs as much as the tool and pieces....
the tool can be resold on CL.... 
great way to go though if you can afford them!

so rats like to chew this stuff? that could be a problem here in the boonies, the dogs and cats catch the occasional rat and shrew as well as mice.

DM


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## Snav (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh - it's an expander!
I had to go and read up on it to see what it does - if I need a new toy in my toybox surely I should know about it!
I got ya, now - I was confused and wondering if I was doing something wrong 

Yes, you're right - the sharks for one bathroom equal the cost of the expander.
At least expanders can be resold and thus recouping some of the cost.


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## ehoez (May 12, 2008)

thanks everyone


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## Datura (Jul 14, 2011)

We are in the same boat as you are, closed on a foreclosed house my husband has just arrived , but whoever was foreclosed upon decided to destroy all the pvc pipes in the basement. Husband is researching the pex ave today. We are planning on living in the house. Interesting thread. THANKS


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

CPVC is still probably going to be much easier. How much of the pipe did they 'destroy'?
Also, it'd probably be much *cheaper* to just repair the damages. Did they rip the sink/tub fittings apart? 
Did they destroy the drains? Can you post pictures?

DM


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## Canucker (May 5, 2011)

ehoez said:


> i found PEX prices @ for the blue
> 
> $30 for 100' and $90 for 300'
> 
> is the red higher priced? and what does oxygen and without oxygen mean?


The red shouldn't be priced higher. The with/without oxygen is probably specifying whether you can use the pipe in a heating system. Closed loop systems need an oxygen barrier to prevent rusting


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