# Peeling Ceiling Help



## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

While I have no long term experience in your environment I think you have properly diagnosed the problem.



> But this path of what seems minor wreckage lies in the air flow path of a now removed swamp cooler.


I have seen unpainted texture subjected to high levels of moisture in the air peel more than once. The direct air path of a 'swamp cooler' would be a high moisture area.

I will defer my opinion to anyone who has lived for some time with one of those devices.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Use your "search" feature on here and do lots of reading on drywall repair, skim coating, and matching texture because that's what you will be doing.

Remove as much of the loose as you can. Then you will need some joint compound to begin to rebuild the now shallow area. You can use premixed or "quickset", layering each new application until it gets flush with the surrounding area. Then you will have to match the texture with joint compound or one of the aerosol spray cans you can buy at Home Depot.

It's an involved process that's difficult to explain in so many words. Do lots of reading on here and you'll learn a lot about the process.


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## VKim (Oct 19, 2015)

Thank you, Gymschu! I understand what you are explaining. I will do searches as well. You helped with my wondering if I should use screws around the edges or some kind of adhesive to push the peelings parts back in place...so, I never thought of removing. Much thanks.


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## gunner666 (Jul 16, 2014)

yea I'd also say remove it all with a putty knife, be careful since it could actually contain asbestos or lead because you mentioned 1950. To fill in the slow spot (before the bumpy texture is applied to finish it), I would use setting type compound because it dries harder than the premixed and also it comes as a powder you add water to so you can store the spare material without worrying about it turning to shjt like the premixed does. Get it as smooth as possible, you might want to buy a large 14" or so putty knife or use a firm flat piece of metal edge if you have something like that to make it smooth. Once the powder setting type compound is dry, you have to sand out any imperfections but since a texture will go over it, it can go without being perfect. If you use premixed compound, then most of those you can just use a wet sponge to get it nice and smooth while it is almost completely dried and you might be able to smooth it out with a wet sponge even if it's fully dried - the powder setting type compound you can not sponge, you have to sand and create a mess but only if you don't get it right the first time you can still sponge the setting powder type while it is sort of wet but it will dry in like 20 mins (if you buy the 20 min kind or 40 mins if you buy the 40 min kind). If you go with the premixed, do not get the 'lightweight' all purpose compound (most stores will carry USG brand and it has a blue lid), instead you want to use the green lid USG for the first coat because it has more glue in it. The powder 'setting type' is the strongest and will hold up against moisture/draft the best which might have caused the peeling to begin with. have fun. 

You might have to retexture the entire ceiling if you can't find an exact match of a premixed ceiling texture, but maybe you can get the kind that you add the granules to a mix and customize how much texture there is (but the size of the granules also might be different), and then if you paint it, you'll probably have to paint the whole ceiling to match the color and 'sheen', even the computers at home depot etc can't perfectly match the color and sheen amount of a chip sample you bring them to custom make a matching paint but all the aforementioned can be avoided if you just want a fix that is 'good enough'.


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## gunner666 (Jul 16, 2014)

edit, actually upon looking at the photos again, that doesn't look like a popcorn textured ceiling with granules, i'm not sure exactly what type of finish it is but you can probably get a good enough match but just first peeling away the peeling stuff and then doing the base coat as I mentioned and then putting a thin coat of plaster on there and blotting it with a sponge to match the texture.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

You would be so much better off getting rid of all the textured ceiling and just going with a smooth ceiling.
Should never peel again.
And no there is no way to just stick it back up again.


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## VKim (Oct 19, 2015)

Gunner666, awesome feedback! Asbestos/lead, okay, got it. I will experiment with your plan with Gymschu in mind. Thank you for taking your time to reply in full details. Much appreciated, Gunner666. 

Full strip reply, forgive, I am not recalling your handle name just now, I would have to replace removed materials with something. I'm positive the drywall and screw view would cause depressing streaks with suicidal tendancies over time if I didn't. But it is an option. Thank you!


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## VKim (Oct 19, 2015)

JoeCaptain, actually, I am second quessing, now, what material you would suggest to replace current material? I have no imagination, yet, for what could be possible to make the ceiling smooth again and never crack.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The main reason drywall gets textures is because it's cheap and fast to do by a pro.
Once the old textures off your going to see no one took the time to tape and finish the drywall joints, it takes time and money so the builder like to skip what step.
Texture seems to be a regional thing. At least 99% of the home built in my area have no texture.
It's impossable to clean, very hard to make a simple repair, harder to paint.
Removing that texture is a messy job. It needs to be misted down with water and a dash of liquid dish soap and scrapped off with a drywall knife, tarps need to be laid down to catch all the falling texture.
Check out Youtube for drywall finishing.


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## gunner666 (Jul 16, 2014)

as they said, redoing the whole ceiling smooth (after scraping it all off and then applying regular drywall plaster first coat embedding the drywall paper if there is none on the drywall joints with green lid mud or the powder setting type compound I mentioned, and then using the blue lid lightweight for the second and third coat) is a big job with tarps etc and sanding mess (unless you can sponge it all smooth but that's harder and you will probably have to end up sanding and sealing off connecting rooms with plastic doors like E.T movie if there are no doors) and making it perfect on a ceiling is hard especially for a beginner.
As he mentioned, a lot of homes, especially new ones they built all over the country particularly in the south and somewhat in the south, they don't do smooth drywall, it should always be taped on the seams though, that prevents cracking but they do a texture instead of all the different stages of making it smooth, they make it like stucco basically. I don't dislike the look of it but if you have to patch or wash it, it's harder.

The screw heads won't show though or bleed color (unless maybe they used the wrong screws but drywall screws are probably the cheapest and easiest kind to use, they are usually black color either shiny or flat black like a powder finish), but again, I would just patch it and match the texture possibly with a damp sponge. It's a small enough spot it would be pretty hard to really butcher it so I would use the powder type 20 or 40 minute mud so you can store the extra in case you have a small hole in a wall or something but you can't sponge that stuff like you can with the premixed so if you are really unconfortable thinking you'll get it godo the first time with powder mud, then get a small $6 container of green USG drywall compound (not the lgithweight blue lid) and then you can use a wet sponge to smooth it out as it is almost dry. You can also smooth out the powder kind with a wet trowel/putty knife spray bottle as it is almost dried and then go over it hard with a trowel and get it smoother but it's harder than it sounds. That what this guy does here, he is a plaster master. All those wood stick sin the ceiling are just because the house is like 100 years old, back then they didn't have drywall boards, they put those lathe wood pieces and plastered over it like he is doing but imagine the wood is the drywall is what you would be dealing with. The bigger the trowel, the less lines you make and curved edged ones make less lines that rectangle ones but it's not as easy as it sounds on a ceiling you will get imperfections as a beginner most likely.


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## VKim (Oct 19, 2015)

JoeCaptain & gunner666, Good evening. I didn't see any notices that you guys shared more dialogue. Thank you. It is an over whelming thought to take it all off. I am going to try one spot. I feel I just have to know that experience, and either go to the next spot or take it all off. It's so much better when you love your work, but I do love my house and want to do the best right fix. Gonna really have to wrap my mind around the bigger project and gear up for it. 

Again, thank you for all the sound advice and clear directions. 

I am repairing cracks and patches in cement floors first, then baseboarding the perimeter, and last the ceiling. I will share my experince of the ceiling, hopefully by Thanksgiving.

Until then, Vkim.


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

just call a pro in for this one. it is a fairly straight forward fix for the pro and a complicated mess for you.
you do not need to skim out your whole ceiling and you do not need to rip anything down. the texture will be tricky to match and the whole ceiling will likely need to be repainted.
judging from the pics, it's drywall, not plaster. and the orangepeel texture and pic#2 lead me to believe that there has been work done in that area post 1978. Hard to say for sure. a dust mask would be appropriate though.



if you really want to tackle it yourself, lay down a protective floor covering (drop cloth or something like it.)

you will need:
dropcloth
6" and 8" taping knives
drywall mud pan
a medium (about 1.5 gal ish) bucket of all purpose joint compound
fine/medium sanding sponge
2 big cans of orangepeel texture (make sure they're water based, not oil. oil is for pros)
a large piece of cardboard

scrape off the parts that are failing and peeling off (set one good sized piece aside so that you can get your paint matched later, unless you know what the paint is and have some already). hopefully these are not seams that you are dealing with. if they are, you'll need to cut out and replace tape.
we'll proceed as if they are not seams.

you've now scraped off the bad parts and have areas that need to be patched. as a novice, i would suggest using all purpose joint compound for all of your coats. it will be easier to sand in the end and is a bit more forgiving on a new user than hot mud (the mud you mix yourself)


fill your mud pan about half full with the mud. stir the mud up like you're mixing up cake batter or something. you can add a little water to smooth it out and make it easier to work with. just add a little at a time or it will be too thin and very messy. you just want it smooth and free of air bubbles.


slap it up on to the areas that need it and smooth it out with your 6" knife. just work on filling up the low spots that you scraped off. don't worry about making it perfect just yet. let it dry(it will be white with no dark spots in it) 2nd coat, do the same thing except this time, try to "feather" it out a little into the good part of the ceiling. putting more pressure on the out side edge (that should be on the good part of the ceiling )of your knife than the inside edge(which will be over your repair). let it dry.

you should still have your drop cloth down and hopefully have been keeping your workspace fairly clean.

now you'll want to sand a little bit. just gently sand the "high" spots and airbubbles and sand your edges down where it meets the ceiling that didn't need repairs. a wet rag will help also if the edges are just too thick. just a gentle quick sand, don't try to make it perfect. you're not there yet.

3rd coat of mud, use your 8" knife and make it as smooth as you can. be gentle and just lightly drag the mud over the repair spots and into the older parts of the ceiling. by now they should be pretty smooth and your edges should feather in pretty nicely. you want to overlap the new into the old about 6 inches or so...the idea is to blend it in. it will be fairly random vs. choppy. let it dry

sand it all out making sure it is all nice and smooth and not bulging or bumpy. if it is, keep sanding. if there are dips (low spots)throw another thin coat on it.

once you are satisfied with the patches being smooth, grab a vacuum and vacuum the patches (use the round brush attachment)and the messy floor. your mud drips should be pretty dry also and can be vacuumed now, too.
you can also use a damp rag to dust the patches off but move quickly as it will rewet the mud and could damage your otherwise fine work!


now grab your can of texture, shake it well and put it under running hot water (kitchen sink?) for about 15 minutes. shake it up every few minutes or so.

now you need your big piece of cardboard to practice spraying texture and finding your texture match. from the pics, it looks like you have a med-fine texture.

you'll need to play with the can adjustment nozzle till you get it right. hold it back about 2 feet from the cardboard surface and spray it. as the can and it's contents cool, the product gets thicker and sprays slower. keep it warm and it'll shoot better and give you a finer spray pattern. spraying it on the ceiling will change things a little also.just make sure you're not too close. if you screw it up, let it dry and sand it off. you could also wipe it with a rag but you'll end up sanding it a little anyway so, i'd just let it go as a novice.


move and spray the texture in a circular motion ( i go counter clockwise, it doesn't really matter) and blend the texture into the old ceiling part. the goal is to have it evenly coated but not creating a defined spray pattern on your ceiling. if you just go back and forth across the repairs, you will see that pattern in your painted finish. round and fairly random blending into the existing ceiling and overlapping about 2 feet into it

wait about 10 minutes and do it again. 2 coats are better than 1.

let it all dry. 

use a good primer (personally i like Sherwin Williams) either pro block or multi purpose will do the job and from the pics, you' ll only need a quart. also, now is a good time to get your paint matched up. from the pics it looks like an eggshell or a satin.. now would be a good time to change the sheen if you want to....depends on a few other things though. 

now it gets a little trickier....you now have a new repair with 1 coat of paint and an old ceiling with ???? coats of paint. you get to try to match it. first, after the primered texture dries thoroughly, drag your sanding sponge over it LIGHTLY. you just want to knock it down a teeny tiny bit. not much. just a little finesse. now add another coat of primer. let it dry.

now give it 2 coats of paint and you should be fairly close. you're trying to build depth (mil thickness) and texture to match an existing ceiling. it's pretty tough for pros to get it right sometimes so don't be too hard on yourself if it's not perfect. good luck, one thing's for sure, you're gonna learn a few things about a few things.


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## VKim (Oct 19, 2015)

Dear Mr. Blackjack, lovely, lovely, lovely! 

Your presentation has livened my spirit as it keeps everything as simple as possible at every level, which I am finding I need the most at this time, and offers a nice confidence the repair can be done per issue spot.

I have watched now about a half dozen ceiling repairs for peeling situations and, yes, it is drywall behind the orangepeel (I have been trying to understand that word!). I am pretty sure 2 of the 3 repair spots will involve joint taping, I didn't see any joint tape where one drywall joint is quite visible. 

Anyway...I have my arsenic and lead mask and a throw cloth, now the rest of the materials. 

Thank you, Mr. Blackjack, for joining in and sharing your knowledge and wisdom here. 

All the posts, this is...really better than... school...

VKim


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

you're welcome. I hope it helps in some way. I've found this method to be pretty effective for me. Others may have their own techniques, but the basics are the same. 
If you're dealing with joint tape, you'll need to use a razor knife to cut the bad part out. Just cut it about 1 1/2" -2" beyond the part that's failing and pull the bad part of it out.
I like to use fiberglass mesh tape on something like this, you can use paper tape though.
If you use the mesh tape, use scissors (as a novice) to cut it to the size you pulled out. You will likely have to clean the area of loose mud before reapplying. The mesh tape can then be smoothed into the recessed area with your knife. It should have a sticky back. If not (or if using paper tape) put some mud (make sure the entire joint area to be taped has mud on it to ensure proper adhesion of the tape) in the area first, then smooth the tape in carefully to avoid ripples and bumps in the joint. (If you've got a few loose strings sticking out don't worry about them too much on the first coat. Just use a razor knife to cut them off gently after the first coat dries otherwise you'll screw it up.) You don't want a big gob in there--just enough to keep the tape in place. Smooth out the excess, let it dry and proceed as you would with the other patches.blend, blend, blend. Good luck!


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

P.s. make sure anything you don't want texture on gets covered up. That stuff flies everywhere. The good news though is you should've bought the water based texture. If you get it on something by accident it will vacuum up fairly easily (when it's dry) or wipe off with a wet rag.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I hope Joe never moves to Florida, in the last 10 years I have seen maybe 5 rooms with smooth finishes. What we do a lot is remove popcorn (about the ugliest finish ever) then we apply a knockdown finish.

Texture depends on your location. Some areas you can actually de-value the home by removing all the texture. A short while ago I was railing against popcorn and was told it is still being applied regularly in some parts of the country. Go figure.:vs_shocked:


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