# Bad house paint job Brush marks everywhere



## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

If it were me, I would probably elect to fill rather than sand for two reasons. 1) I doubt you will be able to get the walls perfectly smooth with an orbital sander and will have to fill them anyways at some point, rendering the sanding a somewhat useless step. 2) A house built in the 60s presents a danger to exposure from lead dust if you were to sand down to the original coatings.

If the waves in the brush marks are extreme, you might elect to sand down some of the highest points and then fill the rest.

Good luck!


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

The house does not have lead paint. It was on the windows and they have been removed so lead gone. By filling do you mean with joint compound? Its what I was thinking.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

It's not just lead. You never know what kind of primers or paints they used which could contain xylene or many other chimicals you really don't want in your lungs. Always wear a mask while sanding.


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

Dustless sander..check. Respirator...check. What would be the best way to fill. I was thinking joint compound.


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

Hey jmf,
Lead was in all paints during the 60's not just enamels. Your walls and ceilings have it too. Personally I don't buy into the whole lead danger thing. As long as you don't use it as a topping on your ice cream you'll be OK, however DO wear a mask. Safety first.
Steve
www.handpaintedbysteve.com


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## General (Dec 11, 2010)

spraygunn said:


> Personally I don't buy into the whole lead danger thing.http://www.handpaintedbysteve.com


Agreed, the same with asbestos. Basically, it's just a money making scheme for the government and the abatement companies who pay millions to lobbyists.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

jmf777 said:


> The house does not have lead paint. It was on the windows and they have been removed so lead gone. By filling do you mean with joint compound? Its what I was thinking.


A house built in the 1960s would contain lead. Only at some point if the lead was removed (abated) then it would not contain lead. When a professional abatement company removes lead they fill out paper work that stays with the owner and gets passed down to the next owner etc. If you have nothing in writing saying that the house contains no lead I would use EPA lead certified testers before I did any sanding to be sure there is no lead. If there is lead and your sanding there is serious health risk for you and your family.


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

I know. Its not that big of a deal as they try to make it. I used to work with an epoxy primer that was made with lead chromate which is mostly used with aerospace paint jobs. Its also used in marine applications. Any who I know all about the dangers with paint. I used to paint all kinds of crap for a gov. contractor, but looking for advice whether sanding is the way to go or a waste of time and should I skim coat the wall with joint compound or some other filler application so I can prime and paint the room. I also used EPA certified testers through out the house and found nothing. except on the windows and they were removed and replaced and disposed of by certified professionals.

P.S. for the guy that posted above me. Not all homes in the 60's where painted with lead based paint. As a matter of fact my parents older home was built in the late 50's and and was tested by an abatement company prior to buying and had no trace of lead whatsoever and yes they had paperwork stating this fact. Thanks to all so far who has responded to my thread any response is a helpful response.

Also not trying to start a debate on lead based paint...I know it gets ugly from that point on once the line is crossed.

So Joint compound?


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

Hey jmf,

Lightly sand the walls with a sanding pole and 100 grit black sanding pole paper just to knock off the high spots, then use plus 3 redimix drywall compound to skim coat the ENTIRE wall or ceiling. Lightly sand when dry, prime using a good quality vinyl primer then finish. A lot of work, but should look better. Don't know if it will ever be a new penny.
Good Luck,
Steve
www.handpaintedbysteve.com


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

thanks for the info spraygunn


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

have you tried a couple coats of a good thick primer to get rid of the brush marks. If you could get that to work it sure would be easier than skimming or sanding. I would try a test area and see if that will work. good luck!


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

I'll pick up some primer tomorrow and try a small spot and see how many coats it takes before skim coating. I need to primer before skim coating anyway since the paint is a semi-gloss. Thanks

By the way spraygunn, I checked out your website and you do serious nice work man. Hats off to you


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks jmf, much appreciated.


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

General said:


> Agreed, the same with asbestos. Basically, it's just a money making scheme for the government and the abatement companies who pay millions to lobbyists.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/world/africa/08briefs-leadpoison.html


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

I plan to use a 1/2" nap with the primer to see if this will be a quick fix to smoothen the wall before I move on to skim coating the wall. if anyone thinks I should try smaller or bigger let me know. Also apparently I am not the only one in this situation as their others in similar situations on other forums. 

The marks look like orange peel brush marks. I wonder if this was done on purpose as a few older people have said the orange peel used to be a texture preference a long time ago. Thanks for all the help.

Also the lead problem in Africa sucks (posted above me).


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## General (Dec 11, 2010)

Windows said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/world/africa/08briefs-leadpoison.html


This is the exact reason why this type of hysteria starts. 

The link you provided is akin to what spraygunn said above, pouring lead onto your ice cream.

But you are using that link to show how old lead paint is going to eat us alive :no::no::no:


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

Here's what I would do to "smoothen" the rough walls. Mix 5 gal DW mud with 1 gal flat latex paint. Apply to wall with 2" roller. Work in 4' sq sections. Smooth out the mud with a hawk and trowel. Use the extra on the hawk to cut in the ceiling line and base. 

Rinse off trowel often as the paint in the mud can dry and make it hard to remove.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

I would still try the primer first, you will need to explain the problem to a good paint store and try to find a very thick primer, which hopefully will give you a little fill power if that doesn't work then you may have to skim. I know when I researched out the type of primer I could use on paperless drywall (fiberglass) the manufacturer tech told me I would'nt have to skim if I used a thick primer He recommended one but I can't remember the name now. It may be worth a call to find out what they use.


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## Sandra20 (Dec 30, 2010)

Takes too much time,I would just get wallpapers for my walls.


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

General said:


> This is the exact reason why this type of hysteria starts.
> 
> The link you provided is akin to what spraygunn said above, pouring lead onto your ice cream.
> 
> But you are using that link to show how old lead paint is going to eat us alive :no::no::no:


The hysteria does not start there. This is not something new. Lead (and asbestos) have been recognized as dangers to human health for as long as there has been recorded history. You agreed with Spraygun who stated lead poses no danger - the link was to refute that claim. Having said that, I do believe that diyers can manage the risk and work safely with lead. Ignoring the risk or _denying it even exists_, is not an effective mitigation strategy. :yes::yes::yes:


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

Well *Windows*, let’s examine spraygunn’s remark. I believe I said, “Personally I don't buy into the whole lead danger thing, As long as you don't use it as a topping on your ice cream ” that is to say, as long as you don’t eat it. You’re probably to young to remember the days of using lead putty for filling nail holes (and yes the carpenters used to drive every nail by hand in those days) and having to scrape it off your hands before you rinsed them in turps (that’s mineral spirits in today’s language), or needing two grown men just to carry a five of pure white lead paint because it was that heavy, then washing your arms and face with turps at the end of the day to get the lead paint off our skin. Yes, I could go on about this lead issue, but who cares. Lead and asbestos are dangerous when used in an unintended manner, but so is eating dirt or breathing a human air biscuit. By the way did you know that’s a carcinogen? Do you really want to know what is amazing? It’s amazing that after working in that environment under those conditions for all those years, I am still alive and writing about it. My hands aren’t shaking, my blood is healthy and my cholesterol is 142. 

Happily,
Steve
www.handpaintedbysteve.com


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

The CDC has concluded that there is no safe amount of lead exposure. That means a person needs to take precautions beyond not putting it on their sundae. I am glad you are in good health, but with minor and moderate exposures to lead, a grown man will very likely recover on his own, young children and the unborn will not. The effects are very damaging and irreversible. THe precautions that we need to take are both for ourselves and for others. Collecting lead chips, not vaporizing lead paint with high heat, and certainly not grinding lead paint with a sander _inside a residence, _ represents an absolute minimum standard of risk mitigation.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Getting around ALL of this...

XIM's Trim-Magic, and UMA primers are VERY high-build primers.
These can be applied very thickly with a brush. Let dry half a day or so, then sand smooth.

NOW you can have some baby's-butt smooth trim that you'll DROOOL:blush: over!

If you were in my store, that's what I'd show you first.
:scooter:
Faron


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks for all the information so far. The room was on hold recently, but I'm about to jump back on it. I will look into the XIM's Trim-Magic, and UMA primers. I called my local Sherwin Williams and they recommended a High build primer, he said I could role it with a 1/2" nap, if that doesn't work than definitely skim coating.

You can view the picture I posted to see what I am dealing with. Thanks


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

*After shot with primer on top of skimcoat.*

Been a long time since I posted but I went and skim coated the walls. Wasn't as hard as I thought. I used a slightly watered down lightweight compound roller and the magic trowel/ 6" knife for the corners. Started with a 12" knife, but me being a novice the magic trowel worked wonders. Got the the hang of the knife later on, wouldn't call me a pro, but I can get the job done in a few more coats than a pro can (not as fast putting it on either.) I'll upload another picture later. Anyone else in a similar predicament I recommend skimcoating. The results I have is worth it (the Mrs. complained as I skimcoated saying it wouldn't be worth it, now she wants the entire house done this way.) Thanks to all on this website, it is much appreciated.

The picture below is just with primer over the skimcoat.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

:clap: :clap: good for you. But sorry the wife loves it.... :laughing; just think how good you'll be after another room or two :thumbsup:


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

LMAO thats what she said. I told her she can help, she says "Well, you got it pretty much down right now the last thing I would want to do is try and help and slow you down....." I said "sounds like an excuse for you to not help." She immediately jumps into suck up mode and changes the subject with a smile .


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

jmf777 said:


> LMAO thats what she said. I told her she can help, she says "Well, you got it pretty much down right now the last thing I would want to do is try and help and slow you down....." I said "sounds like an excuse for you to not help." She immediately jumps into suck up mode and changes the subject with a smile .


You can always tell her that I'm a wife and I think women have more finesse at skim coating than men. 

Seriously guys, I kid.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Leah Frances said:


> You can always tell her that I'm a wife and I think women have more finesse at skim coating than men.
> 
> Seriously guys, I kid.


 
hey, I work with a "girl", lady, woman, member of the opposite sex, female, whatever, out of Westminister a lot and you would get no argument out of me:no:


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

Hey there is a reason the phrase "A woman's touch." exists. With practice she probably could do better than me. I let try it a little bit and she didn't care for it to much, but there was some interest  I'll get her to try again in the next room.


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## skankayaker (Jul 25, 2011)

jmf777 said:


> Been a long time since I posted but I went and skim coated the walls. Wasn't as hard as I thought. I used a slightly watered down lightweight compound roller and the magic trowel/ 6" knife for the corners. Started with a 12" knife, but me being a novice the magic trowel worked wonders. Got the the hang of the knife later on, wouldn't call me a pro, but I can get the job done in a few more coats than a pro can (not as fast putting it on either.) I'll upload another picture later. Anyone else in a similar predicament I recommend skimcoating.
> View attachment 35738


I found your post and thank heavens I did! I want to paint with a matte finish over some eggshell-painted walls, which have an orange-peel texture. I have investigated sanding with an elec. sander, which I thought might work, but it took way too long to do a small area. So tell me about this skim coating...any tricks to use that would make the job go well? I really don't want to make a lot more work for myself, and my hubby is getting antsy to have this room finished so I can go on to another project - LOL


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

skankayaker said:


> I found your post and thank heavens I did! I want to paint with a matte finish over some eggshell-painted walls, which have an orange-peel texture. I have investigated sanding with an elec. sander, which I thought might work, but it took way too long to do a small area. So tell me about this skim coating...any tricks to use that would make the job go well? I really don't want to make a lot more work for myself, and my hubby is getting antsy to have this room finished so I can go on to another project - LOL


Get your husband a putty knife and have him help :wink:. Search this site. There are lots of threads with great tips for skim coating. 

Bottom line: it takes practice, and you will get better the more hours you do it.


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

I tried sanding the paint as well and it takes forever. I am definitely happy with the results of skim coating. Some things I noticed while skimming is, doing parts of the wall that was uneven with a stronger less flexible blade worked best. For the rest of the wall something more flexible like a blue steel knife, squeegee (in my case the magic trowel) was easier and faster. The best thing I can tell you as a fellow novice is get joint compound and water it down to a pancake batter consistency and use a paint roller 1/2" or larger to roll the compound on the wall. Than come back and smooth it out with the knife. The last wall in the room my Mrs. used the magic trowel while I rolled. It required a nice sanding afterwards but she is now willing to help. Most people hand sand with a block. I am used to painting extremely glossy surfaces like cars, aircrafts so I used an orbital sander hooked up to a shop vac to suck up a lot of the dust, a lite, and finger tips. It definitely speed up the process. Just be sure to shine the lite down the wall at a sharp angle to look for high and low spots. The first wall took me about four coats (I sucked) than every wall after that got less and less. Now I can do it in about 2 coats with maybe a few touch ups. Not as fast as a professional, but with practice it gets a lot easier. 

Be sure to either prime that wall first before skimming or scuff the crap out of it. Your aim is to take some of the sheen off the wall and give the mud something to stick to. After skimming, prime the skimcoat, look for low/high spots, prime again (you will probably need 2 coats of primer) and paint. Crank up some music and GIT-R-DONE, You can do it


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

jmf777 said:


> Crank up some music and GIT-R-DONE, You can do it


- I like streaming movies/tv to my laptop or phone while I skim coat. :walkman:

- I also shoot to sand as little as possible. I always try to be 'filling in' voids rather than sanding off high spots. If I've got any high spots I'll try and knock them off with the knife before they get rock hard.

- I'm willing to work really really hard with my knife/trowel for an almost perfect finish. In my last room (15 x 17 foot) I only spent around 30-40 minutes at the very end on any sanding. 

- I've been really unhappy using the thinning and roller technique. It was too time consuming to roll compound on, put down roller, pick up knife, knife smooth, then start with the roller all over again. I am MUCH faster with just a tray of compound and a knife. 

- I err on the side of mixing too little compound rather than trying to work compound that is starting to set up. (IMO, premixed is not worth using) I also mix different amounts depending on the job. Sometimes I'm using 2 gallons at a time; sometimes two cups.


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## jmf777 (Jan 1, 2011)

Picture below is after skim coat with primer on the wall (no paint) and some new molding...still needs more work, but u can see the results of the skim job.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Very nice! Now prime it and use the good stuff!:thumbup:


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

jmf777 said:


> Picture below is after skim coat with primer on the wall (no paint) and some new molding...still needs more work, but u can see the results of the skim job.
> 
> View attachment 35808


:clap: :clap: :clap: Ditto on the good primer. Looks super good. :thumbsup: :thumbup:


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