# How to replace a rotten sill plate, joists, and subflooring.



## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi guys,

I have a rental built in the 1950's and recently had one of the nastiest tenants known to man move out and destroy the place. I ripped out carpet, flooring, everything. Long story short, I ran into a weak spot in the kitchen after ripping up some tile. From past expierence, I expected to have subflooring rot and probably some joists rot. Instead, everything was rotted. It looks like this












More pics at this link

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.341903869159930.101633.100000209582670&type=1&l=748cfc4b1c


This was the first section I pulled up and then noticed I had a whole big mess on my hands. I kept ripping out wood and rot until I got down to the joists and concrete foundation. The sill plate was so rotten, the joists were not even sitting on it. They were just hanging there. I don't know how the wall is still standing. 












This is what it looked like after several hours of demo. Now my question to everyone on this forum is this.

How do I rip out and replace the sill plate and rim joists? I've searched Google and looked at every video on YouTube but thought someone knows a simple and effective way to do this job.

I did jack up a house once before and replace the sill plate, but it was a small job and the joists were not rotted. 


I've also uploaded a YouTube video on this project. 

http://youtu.be/VJfZfEKFAZ8

I need to rip out about 15 feet on one side of the house and about 10 feet on another side. 

*Solution:*

I thought about about getting a 2x8 treated beam and lag bolt it into the studs on the wall I want to jack up and then put a notched 4x4 or 6x6 treated beam under it and then jack it up with a 20 ton jack. However, I thought this might be overkill. I just want to do something simple and effecive without killing myself. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Jonathan


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

You're on the right track.


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*Sill Plate Project kicking my butt!*

Hi guys, 

I'm still working on the sill plate thing. I struggled with a way to jack up the house, but finally came up with a simple solution. I wanted to jack up the house enough to replace the sill plate, rim joist, regular joist and 3/4 in plywood all in one wack. 

*Here's the video*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnh...xt=C3ae0589UDOEgsToPDskIJ6tcXnCJYKEh8LnV5j2Va


I didn't film every step. It's hard to work to film and work and my time is running short, so my big idea of filming step by step instructions has all but disappeared. 

*Here is how I raised the house*

So I cut away the drywall 2 feet up and installed a treated 2x8 board along both walls. I used 3 inch lag screws to secure it. I took the photo below, but used a 6x6 treated post when I acutally jacked up the house. The 2x4 below was just a mock up of what what I was thinking about doing. I eventuall knocked out the wood on the outside wall and used a 6x6. 










Once I got everything level and snug with lags, I ran a treated 6x6 post under the treated wall boards I lagged in earlier and out both sides of the house. I pulled the siding off of course and punched a hole in the wall. I then took two cinder blocks and placed them as close to the house as I could get them and under the 6x6 posts. I put a treated 2x6 over the cinder blocks and then used two 12 ton bottle jacks to jack up the side of the house. I only used one jack per side. I placed a level on the board and jacked little by little keeping everything level. Eventually I was able to lift the house enough, without cracking anything to replace everything. I'll get photos and a video uploaded later. 












I can tell you that this type of stuff shouldn't be attempted by the regular guy. I'm am extremely catious and still felt a little nervous with this task. The house I'm working on is a one level rancher, so the weight wasn't extreme, (well, as far as houses go...) but it did take two 12 ton jacks to lift the side of a small house a couple of inches. 

Once I got everything in, I then let the house back down. I checked the windows and drywall, and nothing seemed out of wack, so I didn't screw anything up that I know of. 

The other thing I can tell anyone attempting this job, is to have help. I've been doing this by myself and it's been back breaking. 

I replaced the sill plate, rim joist, and 6 regular joist and installed new anchor bolts. Once I finally got everthing in and set back, I put a 4 foot level across the joist and noticed their not perfectly level. Great! Just my luck. I figure the foundation has settled and caused it to be off level. 

I'll work on this problem tomorrow. 

Have a great weekend!

Jonathan


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## Engineer3D (Aug 30, 2011)

Looks like all the damage I am finding in this foreclosure I purchased.


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*Sill Plate Price?*



Engineer3D said:


> Looks like all the damage I am finding in this foreclosure I purchased.


I hope you got a great deal on the foreclosure. This stuff is a pain in the ass to fix, but it's doable. If I had a helper and one week to work on everything without distractions, I could replace the sill plate and rim joist around the entire house. I think I spent just over $200 in lumber and about 16 hours total on just the floor part. I was able to save some money by salavging some of the treated lumber the idiots had used to brace the flooring before I bought the place. I believe there were 4 treated 2x8's they has sistered to the old boards. I used them as rim joists. 



Good luck with your foreclosure!

Jonathan


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Very interesting technique--

You sure don't have much room under the floor---


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

And you did figue out why it all rotted out and fixed it to right?


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*Sill plate*



joecaption said:


> And you did figue out why it all rotted out and fixed it to right?


 
Improper flashing on the outside, termites, and no vapor barrier. I fixed everything. 

:no:


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*No kidding!*



oh'mike said:


> Very interesting technique--
> 
> You sure don't have much room under the floor---


The side of the house I'm working on isn't much above grade. (probably one of the reasons for the problem) 

Over the past few years, I've always ask myself why people don't extend the concerte foundation higher above the grade in areas where the ground slopes toward the house. 

I see lots of homes around Missouri that are build on slops and one part of the home will be 3 feet above grade and the other end looks like it's buried under the ground. Of course the end closest to the earth typically has rot, termites, and other problems.

What's code on how far a foundation should be above grade?

:huh:


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## Engineer3D (Aug 30, 2011)

http://s1237.photobucket.com/profile/Engineer3D

I have not started a topic or thread because there is so many problems I am finding since the house, as I now know, has burned twice. And everything was fixed half [email protected]@ and then covered up.
Water damaged wood does not help, and I am sure pest infestation adds too it.

Whoopppie. My first home.
But yes I may do partially as you did in jacking up the corners that need repair and placing a proper floor down.
Everything I am doing now is so as to avoid falling into the basement.
Plus I am living here also.

Thanks for the tips and pictures.


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*Wow!*



Engineer3D said:


> http://s1237.photobucket.com/profile/Engineer3D
> 
> I have not started a topic or thread because there is so many problems I am finding since the house, as I now know, has burned twice. And everything was fixed half [email protected]@ and then covered up.
> Water damaged wood does not help, and I am sure pest infestation adds too it.
> ...


Dude! 

That is a big project! I checked out the photos on your link. It looks like you are making nice progress. Keep up the good work.


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## J. Trafford (Jan 21, 2012)

Man,

My absolute favorite kinda work, wish I could do it for you. Fine carpentry is great but the heavy structural work is the best to really sink your teeth into.

Nicely done


Traff:thumbsup:


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

Soo... you're not trying to get subfloor between the bottom plate of the wall and your new joists then as if it was being platform constructed from new?

Let me get back with you when I have my memory card from my camera. For now, I can provide this much description from memory: The first 13 joists under my living room have the first 18" rotted completely away along the bottom half, and they've been sistered. But since they've only been sistered once, they're not as bad as the joists under the bathroom which have mostly been sistered twice, IIRC 2 of them have been sistered 3 times. One joists hasn't been sistered, it's under the bathtub. This joist was cut for the drain. No bracing to neighboring joists. A joist was cut for the toilet drain as well, but it was braced to 1 nearby joist. Not sure how much good that does, because I would think it should be braced to the joists on both sides.

The kitchen floor is actually fairly sturdy though. All 5 layers of the floor that are on top of the joists that is. Probably a good thing, the kitchen's joists are perpindicular to the rest of the floor joists of the house and they're face nailed to 1 joist with no ledger board.

All 2x6 joists, and I'm pretty sure the span exceeds the span table recommendations for any species of wood, but even if I'm wrong I intend to upsize my joists and use 4 beams instead of 1 to reduce the span.

These are issues I will deal with after I build posts and beams to support the floor joists. Because I don't think stacks of concrete blocks sitting on dirt constitutes a proper support structure. A foundation wall will be built as well, but that's not DIY.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

At any rate, considering my plan involves trying to put in new plywood subfloor on top of new joists and under the existing exterior stud wall, I was planning my work to be somewhat similar to what you're describing, but the post would obviously interfere with installing the new sheet of plywood subfloor. So my plan involved building a temporary beam to support a temporary wall which will lift against the ceiling joists, and provide a 10' span under which a plywood sheet could be slid, and I would have to move the apparatus for each sheet.

Installing a sheet of subfloor at a corner becomes more complicated, though, so in this case I would have to support one side through the open floor inside the house, and build up 2 beams to support the beam under the temporary wall, the other end of these beams would go through a window to be supported from outside. Fortunately I have a 5' wide window near the corner through which I can do this.

I do want to also say I appreciate this post, as it's good to know there are others doing similar projects and it's good to hear how that's going.


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## Engineer3D (Aug 30, 2011)

I am going to do the same as needed along the exterior walls that run perpendicular to the floor joists. And that is in reference to lifting the first floor wall (remove 8' section/and replace damaged sill and 2"x10"x14' burnt joists) then put down 3/4" (23/32 plywood) a section at a time.

No WillK, you are not alone out there doing this.

jtalley, I took more pictures and will post them of where I am now. Got the first floor, or half of it up an inch.
Another 1.5" to go for that side. After I move everything to the Left and do the same for a even push from the center.


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## Blackwolf (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm going to have to study this post and take notes! I am buying a small 1950's house also that needs a lot of this sort of repair. Luckily the main wall that needs help is the north. Its a 24' span and parallel to the floor joists. The house has a gable roof, eves on E&W. Since it needs sills, probably plates and sistered ends on some of the floor joists, could it be jacked up from the outside? 
I was envisioning removing some of the siding, lagging on some 2x8 beams to the studs and then jacking it up and putting in bracing under the beam as I go. Gradually work it up to about 2" above the foundation.
The house is a small 24'X32' single story on a cinder block foundation about 1 1/2' above grade with a crawl space underneath. It also has a center wall running N-S to support the floor. the E W walls support the whole roof which is stick built, no cross rafters. 
Any special considerations? I was thinking about putting in some sort of barrier between the block and sill like rubber membrane or something. I was also considering digging around the whole foundation to install a drainage system and waterproof the block foundation. Plans are to eventually expand the house N&S so I may be doing the sills and such at the same time on respective ends.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

When you are ready to start your project---start a new thread---
In the mean time---book mark this thread---sometimes it's hard to find them again--Mike---


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

Once I got the joists in, I had to put 3/4 inch plywood in before setting the house back down.


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## Engineer3D (Aug 30, 2011)

I know it's been a while since I last posted, but work and health always jumps in and slow things down.
But I know have a lot of 14' 2X12 in the basement and ready, for the joist replacement as well as the 16' in the garage.
Now I finally convinced my brother to at least help out in a few weeks, If I have everything on standby before the cold sets in.

Wish me luck.
I'll post pics once everything starts.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Love the Melvin Guillard comments on your facebook page. Are you really going to rent to him?


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## jtalley (Jan 15, 2012)

*Ha!*



CoconutPete said:


> Love the Melvin Guillard comments on your facebook page. Are you really going to rent to him?


No. I was just joking.


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