# An old Lear Siegler AGC-80 Propane Burner



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

I ran across this old furnace today: Lear Siegler AGC-80 Type B, Propane Burner, Standing Pilot - in a mobile home.

The pilot light access hole is fairly close to the bottom of the furnace. On the left side of the cabinet near the bottom, is a lever to turn something inside the box. 

Anyone know what this is and what position this lever should be in , when it comes time to light it up. 

Have had no luck so far in searching for any info for this unit. Parts diagram, manual, whatever. Grateful for any suggestions.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Yeah, it is called rip it out and take it for scrap metal. Replace it with a more modern unit that does not leak CO.


----------



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

yep as mentioned turn into scrap before winter gets here..:thumbsup: ben sr


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

S peciallee with Propane. That stuff is heavier than air and settles and can create a bomb. If it is a mobile home and that propane settles in the ducts below then that is a even worse situation. Had that with a oil flooded oil burner and I refused to lite it up. Got one of the old guys to do it. Customer pressed the reset way 2 many times.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Would need pics.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Would need pics.


 Ok, I will return with pics one day. 

Ok y'all - I do fully understand, but since it's doubtful he'll have funds for replacement, I do have a question. 

Is this unit any more dangerous than other old standing pilot furnaces? Does, what I think is a Draft Diverter near bottom of furnace (to protect pilot flame from down-draft), make it any more dangerous than other old standing pilot furnaces? Not familiar with this DD device, but that 's what someone called it after googling for this unit.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

beenthere said:


> More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.


As you may have gathered by now, or not, I work in a couple of mobile home parks, and there is no shortage of the older propane and natural gas (Oil too) standing pilot furnaces. Obviously I'm learning, but gettin' there slowly - don't work on 'em daily - far from it. 

Not complaining about anyone's comments, but it's not realistic to replace them - tenants don't have the money. Many of them don't even have the money for the fuel, much less for replacement. But then you all are familiar, not doubt. Space heaters, yepper! 

Not complaining about space heaters either - gives me occasional practice (still learning that also) at using my small signal generator and scanner (Fluke Pro 3000) to track down open circuits from excessive amp draw! See, that's the kinda guy I am.....:no: 

I wanted to know if this unit was any more dangerous for my own sake (lighting the pilot), cause when I see something different like this draft diverter, if that what it is (I'll return one day with pics), then I start wondering if this unit is possibly more dangerous (better to be _overly_ cautious, right?). And aside from my own safety, I also wonder about what the maximum precautions might be for the tenant, along the lines of (in addition to, if there is anything else) CO detector, etc. Many of them don't even know what a CO detector is. 

I'm going to start another thread about lighting these old standing pilot furnaces, hoping I'll get some replies about problems encountered while lighting these units - actual first hand experiences or otherwise. 

Personally, I always insert my extra-long match stick(s) up to pilot assy first (tape two of them together, to get my face far away as possible) before pushing down on that pilot knob, and since I recently heard of a small explosion from what the guy said was a bad gas valve (dunno for sure) flooding the heat exchanger while lighting it, think I'll test that pilot knob first. Depress it and sniff for excessive gas build up before lighting and inserting the match stick. Let the gas dissipate afterward, of course.

In the mean time (till I post the other thread), if anyone's had a problem with this particular furnace, grateful for your comments.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If the person lighting the unit, or using it, does not know what they are doing, yes they are dangerous just like any appliance. To save costs for you and your residents, better to replace that antique, then try to keep bandaiding them.


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

use a telescopic lighter with wood match on the end for the easiest way 2 do it. most heating suppliers have them, under $10.


----------



## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

The human nose is not an adequate instrument for detecting "an excessive build-up of gas", no matter how good you think your sense of smell is. Your theory of how to test the pilot/gas valve is flawed- you'll either smell gas or you won't. There's no way to measure gas with your nose, and quite frankly tells me that, although you mean well, don't have the knowledge to be working on other people's gas appliances.

I don't know if you have to be qualified to work on gas where you live, but here you'd be facing 6 months in jail and/or a $100,000 fine, especially if something went wrong. The law here is such that you have the right to endanger yourself, but not other people.

One used to be able to get a gas appliance service certificate here, and this was a great ticket to have for a handyman or duct cleaner because its only a part time course and focuses on proper repair and appliance safety. I'd suggest you check to see if something similar is available in your area. Knowledge is power, lack of knowledge can be deadly.


----------



## FClef (May 5, 2013)

Unless there is a good reason to replace the appliance and it is in good working condition there is no reason to scrap it. I never once ripped out an appliance because it was old unless the homeowner wanted me to do so or there was an unsafe condition that was cost prohibitive to repair. 

People will do stupid things and as a service technician you need to educate your customers to not do these things. It kind of makes me nervous that you are learning as you go, you should have some sort of schooling or training/certification before you get your hands on a gas appliance. Gas is one of the most unforgiving of fuels if you make a mistake. One dumb move can kill. I am not being overly dramatic, this is a fact.

Before I got training I used to fear natural/propane gas, now I have a healthy respect for it and I know what to do and what not to do. I never forget what fuel I am dealing with and that keeps me alert and cautious. If you are moving your face away when lighting a pilot light then you haven't taken steps to be certain there is not a faulty gas valve or other condition where raw gas can accumulate. Can it still flash even after your best efforts to be sure it won't? Yes, but the percentages drop way way down if you have performed your safety tests. 

Get some schooling or training under your belt. Gas service is not something that you should learn as you go.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

* Gregzoll *- I do work in the parks, but I'm not a park employee, and I've already addressed the issue of replacement. Not going to happen unless community action peeps do it for them - not interested in going in to that at the moment. Thx much for your reply.

*Yuri* - you've always got something for me that really helps, whether it's something like this (the telescoping match tool) or stern warnings about whatever - thx much!

*hvac benny *- your words: "The human nose is not an adequate instrument for detecting "an excessive build-up of gas". I did mis-speak about that, but your point is well taken. 

Is it possible for a gas valve, when depressing the pilot knob to light it up, to put too much gas to furnace, even if you put the match in first? Anyone ever have this happen (explosion this way)?

While we're at it, in case it might help anyone else lighting an old Standing Pilot unit up, one of the park residents depressed his pilot knob to light it, and didn't notice the gas coming out of the base of the pilot knob as he brought his match up the hole to put it in - the gas ignited and of course he let go pretty quick (putting it mildy) - flame went out he and was lucky enough to not get burned. I had the gas valve replaced by a pro, but checked out what he said - based on the pressure coming out from the base of that knob, it must have been pretty scary. 

What would you do, benny, (and anyone else of course) to avoid the possibility that there is too much gas in the furnace (gas valve flooding the furnace a bit, _if that's possible_?) before or after putting the match in? I'm assuming this guy was truthful about the gas valve flooding the heat exchanger. Knowing him a bit, wouldn't surprise me if he was just trying to hide the fact that he depressed the pilot knob first (before putting match in) and he waited too long before putting the match in.

I don't do it that way. I put match in first, then press the pilot knob - maybe someone could also speak to how long they would wait for the pilot to light up (doing it this way) before letting that pilot knob go. Haven't had any problem with this method so far. Have had several not light up right away due to dirty pilot tube, bad orifice, etc. I'm not really sure how many seconds I wait for the flame before stopping the pilot gas flow, but no problems with it yet. Between attempts, I have even used a hair dryer before to help dissipate any accumulation. If no hair dryer, then I wait and sniff. 

Always grateful for any help and/or the criticism as well. 

How do you do all do it? (or maybe I should wait and post the new thread I was talking about)?


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote originally posted be me: "How do you do all do it?" (or maybe I should wait and post the new thread I was talking about)?

Or maybe I won't post that new thread. Maybe too much to ask for... Not complaining, maybe would require to much input to relate experiences and I could understand that - and have no problem with those that wouldn't want to, no matter your reasons. I could easily understand the various reasons.

Thx for all the help and criticisms so far.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If you do work in the parks, but not an employee, that makes you a handyman. If you do not hold a license for this type of work, you are endangering not only yourself, but the residents of the structures.

Stop right now, and suggest that if the park owns these structures, either invest money in them to update them, or do like most mobile home parks, and start closing the villages, due to the property owners want money, not to take care of the residents that are renting from them.

Sounds to me that you are doing some shade tree work under the table for slum lords, in my opinion.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

FClef, I tried to reply to your post also, but it didn't take for some reason. Your points are well taken (seriously). That's not just a canned answer now nor at any other time to anyone else. Thx.


----------



## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

"Is it possible for a gas valve, when depressing the pilot knob to light it up, to put too much gas to furnace, even if you put the match in first?"

I'm sure it's possible, depending on the type of valve, although I've never seen it. What is more likely, and what I have seen, is the pilot safety not shutting off the flow of gas to the pilot, and sometimes even the main burner failing open. You'll notice on the directions on all appliances to shut the gas supply off and wait at least 5 minutes before attempting to relight, to let the gas dissipate. You may smell the excess gas, you may not. My training and experience enable me to quickly identify these sorts of problems, as well as other potential safety issues. An unqualified worker likely won't have this ability, and could therefore put himself and others in danger.


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I have to agree in that you may be getting yourself in over your head a bit and with lawyers and liability issues etc ignorance of the law is no excuse. You do not have a gas license and if there is a unsafe condition which results in delayed ignition or CO poisioning could be in some SERIOUS trouble. Working with ACs is one thing as they don't usually blow up but working with gas and ESPECIALLY Propane which is heavier than air is much more dangerous. These old antique furnaces can be dangerous and you already had one with gas leaking around the stem of the valve as the grease dries up. W/O a license nobody will defend you and I doubt you want to lose your home and everything you have worked for. There are NO self taught gas techs as we all work with a gas fitter or licensed tech for 6 months to a year or more. NO court will cut you slack for being a nice guy.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

gregzoll said:


> If you do work in the parks, but not an employee, that makes you a handyman. If you do not hold a license for this type of work, you are endangering not only yourself, but the residents of the structures.
> 
> Stop right now, and suggest that if the park owns these structures, either invest money in them to update them, or do like most mobile home parks, and start closing the villages, due to the property owners want money, not to take care of the residents that are renting from them.
> 
> Sounds to me that you are doing some shade tree work under the table for slum lords, in my opinion.


Thank you Gregzoll, I'll go talk to the property owners first thing in the morning. In the mean time, if you have anything further to regale me with, please do...


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

yuri said:


> I have to agree in that you may be getting yourself in over your head a bit and with lawyers and liability issues etc ignorance of the law is no excuse. You do not have a gas license and if there is a unsafe condition which results in delayed ignition or CO poisioning could be in some SERIOUS trouble. Working with ACs is one thing as they don't usually blow up but working with gas and ESPECIALLY Propane which is heavier than air is much more dangerous. These old antique furnaces can be dangerous and you already had one with gas leaking around the stem of the valve as the grease dries up. W/O a license nobody will defend you and I doubt you want to lose your home and everything you have worked for. There are NO self taught gas techs as we all work with a gas fitter or licensed tech for 6 months to a year or more. NO court will cut you slack for being a nice guy.


Thx again Yuri.


----------



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

as i have said many time before...this is a diy site...but..handymen..and homeowners..should not do work the requires a license to do so .....and no its not job security ..I put in my 40 + yrs ...ben sr


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

First rule of making a living : PROTECT your A**SS from lawsuits, backstabbers, authorities, crooked homeowners etc. ALWAYS assume something could go wrong and the authorities may be after you. Sooner or later something will go wrong with gas and when you have to defend yourself against Professional Mechanical Engineers that the gas authority has and courts use/will call then you are really up the creek. Beenthere twice myself and fortunately could go head to head with them as I know my stuff and have several licenses. VERY unpleasant experiences though.


----------



## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

yuri said:


> First rule of making a living : PROTECT your A**SS from lawsuits, backstabbers, authorities, crooked homeowners etc. ALWAYS assume something could go wrong and the authorities may be after you. Sooner or later something will go wrong with gas and when you have to defend yourself against Professional Mechanical Engineers that the gas authority has and courts use/will call then you are really up the creek. Beenthere twice myself and fortunately could go head to head with them as I know my stuff and have several licenses. VERY unpleasant experiences though.


 could not have said it better yuri ..yea been there also not pleasant...thats why I always stress about not doing things that a person is not trained or licensed to do ..even if he is somewhat handy..ben sr


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

yuri said:


> First rule of making a living : PROTECT your A**SS from lawsuits, backstabbers, authorities, crooked homeowners etc. ALWAYS assume something could go wrong and the authorities may be after you. Sooner or later something will go wrong with gas and when you have to defend yourself against Professional Mechanical Engineers that the gas authority has and courts use/will call then you are really up the creek. Beenthere twice myself and fortunately could go head to head with them as I know my stuff and have several licenses. VERY unpleasant experiences though.


What happened that you had to defend yourself about?


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

too close to blowing my secret identity if my boss reads these posts. had to do with CO poisoning or the potential for it. sooner or later something will go seriously wrong when you work with gas (oil too and same with electric furnaces and burnt wiring etc)


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

Ok then...


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

beenthere said:


> More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.


No kiddin', really ?


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

justplumducky said:


> No kiddin', really ?



LOL. Your the guy that doesn't know what he's working on. So no I'm not kidding. :whistling2:


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.

justplumducky: No kiddin', really ? 

beenthere: LOL. Your the guy that doesn't know what he's working on. So no I'm not kidding. :whistling2:

Yepper, so true, and I just love that little whistlin' guy, even when it's directed at me , BUT since everyone was encouraging me to scrap it, I ABSOLUTELY thought it was going to be more safe than the others :no: 

:tt2:


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

justplumducky said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
> More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.
> 
> ...



Until you post pis of it. None of us know what your dealing with to say for sure.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

Originally Posted by justplumducky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
More dangerous? Not really. But doesn't make it any safer either.

justplumducky: No kiddin', really ? 

beenthere: LOL. Your the guy that doesn't know what he's working on. So no I'm not kidding. :whistling2:

Yepper, so true, and I just love that little whistlin' guy, even when it's directed at me , BUT since everyone was encouraging me to scrap it, I ABSOLUTELY thought it was going to be more safe than the others. :no: 



Until you post pis of it. None of us know what your dealing with to say for sure. * End of Quote* 

I'm afraid you've missed the point. "Not being more dangerous" (what you said), OF COURSE and OBVIOUSLY "doesn't make it any safer either" (also what you said). 

Ok, I forgive you for missing the point :wink:


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

I forgive you too ben~. You and beenthere just send me a check every month or so, and I'll never mention it again!

:thumbup:


----------



## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

justplumducky said:


> I forgive you too ben~. You and beenthere just send me a check every month or so, and I'll never mention it again!
> 
> :thumbup:


I'll send you a cheque too. Just send me your info and I'll have it waiting for you at your local gas authority.


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

hvac benny said:


> I'll send you a cheque too. Just send me your info and I'll have it waiting for you at your local gas authority.


Thank you ~benny!


----------



## justplumducky (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvac benny View Post
I'll send you a cheque too. Just send me your info and I'll have it waiting for you at your local gas authority.

It was a joke hvacbenny (the statement, No kiddin', 
Really), about the "no safer either comment", and now you're back on to the gas authority issue again, yet you have no reason to believe I have not taken all the prior advice to heart and have decided to follow that advice.

Yes, I believe you would report me. 

Thx for you reply benny. Have a great weekend, coming up!


----------



## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

justplumducky said:


> Yes, I believe you would report me.


You are 100% correct in this regard, good sir.


----------

