# Need advice on copper valley top end detail/cap shingle/ridge vent.



## buzzymalone (Jul 20, 2009)

Hello,

I am looking for ways to detail this area. As you see in the pictures, if I put the GAF Snow Country ridge vent right into the valley (per GAF instructions) I will have a triangular void (outlined in light blue on the pictures) under the cap shingles, and I think that is a bad thing.

If I cut the end of the GAF in a point to fit closer into the space I will destroy the insect screen, not good either.

I suppose I could warp and bend the end of the GAF to sort-of conform into the valleys but that would put a lot of stress on the GAF and I would expect it to crack later on.

The thing done locally is to stop the ridge vent a few feet away from this area, let the cap shingles drop down from the GAF, right onto the ridge roof deck (leaving a dip) and then transitioning up into the main roof plane.

Is the local way the right way, what are the other choices?

The pic with the strings up the valley is my trick to keep things straight, and not nail into the copper. I premark and precut each shingle before I nail it up, and I am always working out of the valley with a full shingle.

Thanks for any help!

Regards, Buzzy


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

The cement wasn't necessary. Cap can run all the way across the valley and under the first course shingle above it. A better joint would have been to scissor lock the 2 valleys together, same as step flashing get locked at the ridge.

On the shingl cutting, are you cutting the shingle paralell to the rafters, starting at the un-exposed part? Cutting the un-exposed part on the same line as the exposed portion will cause leaks when water catches the tops of the shingles.


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## buzzymalone (Jul 20, 2009)

tinner666,

Thank you for your reply. 

When you dub the shingle corner that far, can you do without sealant altogether?

That step flashing interlock is clever. It is hard to tell from my pictures but my copper from the right-hand valley goes over the ridge and overlaps the top of the left-hand valley, and the left-hand valley goes over the ridge and a long way under the right-hand valley. I put the sealant between them, put the copper nails in a little way, put sealant on the nail shanks and under the heads, and hammered the nails in the rest of the way. Then I smeared sealant over the nail heads.

The copper overlap at the top was originally a lot more, but I figured out it would show from under the edge of the cap shingle so I trimmed it back after the valley was placed.

The nails that hold the copper valley under the shingles go through slots I cut with a router, so the copper can expand and contract. That (thermal expansion) is also my excuse for doing each valley with 3 separate pieces, although the reality is that shorter pieces are a lot easier to deal with.

I have been doing the equivalent of dubbing the hidden "uphill" corner of the shingle. I just do it by setting the upper end of the shingle short of the cut line string when I mark it. After it is cut it looks like yours in the last photo with your hand, but I don't think I dub mine back quite as far as you do... There is also two beads of sealant between each shingle and the copper, and also between each shingle and the one above it. I have gone through 12 tubes of sealant on those two valleys.

I have been following the instructions from the two Taunton Press books,

http://www.amazon.com/Roofing-Asphalt-Shingles-Pros/dp/1561585319/

http://www.amazon.com/Roofing-Flashing-Waterproofing-Best-Homebuilding/dp/1561587788/

plus everything else I could get at the library.

The back of the house is just flat with one vent pipe, so I did that first. That was not too bad. All the books I have gloss over what to do at the top of the valleys, and it seems like there is a like there is a lot that could go wrong there.. Maybe I am just obsessing over it too much.


If you or anyone else reading this can think of anything else I might be about to do (or have done ) wrong please feel free to mention it. :yes::yes::yes:


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

No sealant necessary. You've already used more than I've used this year, to date. The leaky valley pic was of shingles uncut. THe other one was 10-12 years old, and typical... No leaks, no debris, no water trails.

Ridge details. http://rcs.si-sv2628.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=30&AlbumID=136&file=921&s=0


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## buzzymalone (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you tinner666,

You are a gentleman and a scholar. :thumbup:

Have you considered writing and self-publishing an e-book? It could be sold online for a reasonable sum.

Like this tile craftsman does with an e-book on building shower stalls.

http://www.tileyourworld.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=66

Your helpfulness on the forum would be the only advertising you would need! :yes::yes::yes:


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

buzzymalone said:


> Thank you tinner666,
> 
> You are a gentleman and a scholar. :thumbup:
> 
> agree 100 percent!:thumbup:


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## johnk (May 1, 2007)

Tinner,do you have any pics of how you "scissor lock" your valleys together at the top of tthe dormer?I would love to see how you do it.Thanks


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

johnk said:


> Tinner,do you have any pics of how you "scissor lock" your valleys together at the top of tthe dormer?I would love to see how you do it.Thanks


He showed an example with the corner piece. Just pretend you flattened it out.

Ed


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## johnk (May 1, 2007)

Ed the Roofer said:


> He showed an example with the corner piece. Just pretend you flattened it out.
> 
> Ed


Is that how you do them Ed?I do them a little different.I like Tinners details better.So this is how I'll do em from now on.I just thought he might have a pic of the valley detail because it would be a little different.thanks guys


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

No, I have my own method that I created, which works great for W-Valley metal.

the last, top section of W-Valley get Cross Braked, so the the Inverted "V" in the center reduces in size by the top of the panel. You wind up having about 2-3 feet of wast at the top that then can be cut off, that has no Inverted "V", but now at the top you have two flat sections of metal to tie together instead of trying to seal the hole from the Inverted "V", or peening it down or snipping and folding it.

Ed


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## buzzymalone (Jul 20, 2009)

Hello Ed the Roofer,

We would all love to have multiple detailed pics of that, especially showing the overlap, and where and how you beat it down and nail it. 

None of the books I have seen ever get into the details of that. The HomeTime video wastes video on MULTIPLE closeups of nails being banged in, but cannot be bothered to show details of the finished product.

I suspect there are a lot of traps for the unwary hiding in that ridge, somewhere.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Thats the beauty of making the valley metal yourself.

When I said to cross-brake it, by that I mean, instead of forming the centerInverted "V" the same for the entire 10 foot piece, you get to overlap the "V" near the top of the piece. You wind up not having any gap to close up and seal, because you have flat stock left after the end, where the two bends intersect each other.

I never heard of anyone else ever doing it, but always hated those openings at the top panel of valley flashing, so I tried it and it worked.

Ed


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## johnk (May 1, 2007)

Ed the Roofer said:


> No, I have my own method that I created, which works great for W-Valley metal.
> 
> the last, top section of W-Valley get Cross Braked, so the the Inverted "V" in the center reduces in size by the top of the panel. You wind up having about 2-3 feet of wast at the top that then can be cut off, that has no Inverted "V", but now at the top you have two flat sections of metal to tie together instead of trying to seal the hole from the Inverted "V", or peening it down or snipping and folding it.
> 
> Ed


Ed if you have any pics do you mind sharing?Thanks


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

We usually don't install valley metal, so it has been a few years and the job names that I could remember the last time I checked, didn't have specific photos of what you would be looking for. Sorry.

I will look one more time though, because it did work out very cool.

Ed


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## PerpetuallyRepairing (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks, I am doing this exact feature now. Isn't putting the two intersecting pieces of metal right at the ridge overkill? Shouldn't the cap shingles take care of the ridge?


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## roofboy (Jan 18, 2007)

Hello,

Shingles can deteriorate. Copper will not. If the capping cracks at that area and there is no metal there, water will have the ability to enter at this point.


Keith


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