# Brick arch falling



## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

I would consult a structural engineer. It looks like the corner column is moving. Maybe one will be on here.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

When you make a few phone calls refer to it as a Lintel and as near as I can tell from the pic it is load bearing.


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## wk5h (Apr 5, 2014)

I agree the corner post is load bearing. Not sure if the arch is or not. I think it's more decorative. I'd get a pic, but, it's too hard to get light up into the empty area above the arch, which is closed up by the woodwork. There's 2 rows of brick on the arch, but, the top row you see in the picture, stops being as "put together" once it's covered by the woodwork. There are bricks, but, they're not near put together cosmetically as they are when they're uncovered.

I've been trying to see if the corner post has moved, and while I'm sure it's settled over all this time, it doesn't seem to be the cause of the arch falling. It looks to me as if the mortar has failed in the center bricks, and the weight of the arch has started pulling the ends away from the pillars.

But... I'm no structural engineer, so, you guys might possibly be correct. Not many structural engineers around, but, I'll see what I can find.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You really need a Pressure Treated 2x8, between the jacks & the brick, to better support it. Also you need to tape off that area, so no one just walks under or through it. I would probably tape off the whole front porch, to be safe, so no one gets hurt, if the brick does decide to fall.

If the city Inspector happens to be driving in your area and sees those jacks, supporting that area. They can stop and tag the porch as unsafe. Then you end up with a whole can of worms that you do not want to go through the Red Tape about.


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## iminaquagmire (Jul 10, 2010)

That looks decorative. Its too shallow of an arch to support anything other than itself, which its obviously not doing. I agree that you should place a 2x on its flat on on top of the screw jacks in the meantime until its fixed.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I am not an engineer , but I recommend a tear out and rebuild as much as needed. plus a little more just to insure that it is well built. 

Probably should reinforce it just to make sure.

ED


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

It is really not an "arch", but a beam over an opening with some masonty at the corners to soften it out and give and arch appearance.

Bottom line is that there is not enough "meat" in the span over the opening. The brick is just a masonry veneer that is not intended to carry and load.

If you peal off the brick veneer, you will probably find some sort of "beam" to hold the brick up.

It will have to be rebuilt with a proper beam/lintel to carry the loads that may come from above.

Dick


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

concrete masonry, if you look at both sides, you can see fracturing on the ends. Same with the crack up the middle. My bet is that like someone else stated about the footer on that end sinking. That there is probably no Lintel up there to support that "Arch".

The OP needs to take off all Fascia on both sides, along with take off the ceiling in the porch area, to see what it looks like up there. Same with checking how far the footers are, and use a level or laser (ie hire a surveyor or engineer to check for plumb on the structure).

Over time buildings will settle. For all appearances, these arches on the front porch do have noticeable repairs, that were only for cosmetic, not structural reasons.

I would be curious to know if this was original to the building plan, when the house was built.

To the OP. Are there any other homes in your neighborhood that are of the same design, or have the same type of front porch design on them? Can you find out from the local historical society who may have been the builder, that built the homes in that area, or subdivision.

Depending on what time frame in the 30's, helps tell the story of if it was a private individual that built the structure, then someone else came along and added that arch.

I would say that arch & stone veneer does not look like it was properly built to begin with. Really need more pictures from the front, Left & Right. Showing from the ground to the roof line. Also need the information I stated in the first part of this post.

Start digging in at city hall, to see if you can find any building permits, or inspections. Water has definitely gotten into the brick work, causing it to fail.

You need to contact your local building codes office, before they contact you and place a Condemned structure tag on your residence. They will require you to brace that whole porch better, or tear it completely down, to make it safe for not only those living inside the structure, but for anyone that may walk up onto the porch.

All you need is for someone to get hurt as I stated before.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

A 3 centred arch can work if it's built properly.







However yours looks like it's not a proper arch, so when rebuilt may benefit from being built off a lintel.
Here are a few examples of how it could be done.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm thinking there is a doubled up 2X providing all the support and it has failed.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Stuart:
Is the brick supported off the lintel (like in your sketches) likely to be code for this situation? It sure seems like the only safe way of accomplishing this situation. It would worry me to rely only on the adhesion of the mortar.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Nowadays one of the last 3 methods would probably be used.
The 1st photo is an old building which has no lintel, but the weight on top of the arch actually strengthens it. When the bricks are cut to a taper (axed arch) it is better than a rough ringed arch where the joints are tapered.


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## Visvire (Dec 28, 2012)

*Re*

It looks decorative to me also - I'd also want to make sure they are using an Stype mortar - might be best to take the whole top section down and redo it as if one join is failing, the rest might soon follow.


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## rusty2010 (Jan 18, 2014)

Finding a good mason can be hard and finding one that wants to tackle this project could be harder. You need to inspect the ground on that corner to assure yourself that the column has not moved. Water runoff can be detrimental to a foundation. The gable end is not true load bearing but it does carry a substantial amount of weight should the rafters sag. You'll need to inspect them. The other arches may be in better shape because the soffit is protecting them. 
A mason should tell you that the frieze board needs to come down, he needs to replace all of the bricks in the arch, he should install reinforcing rods above to create a bond beam, use an arched support to lay the brick. He may also need to attach the re rods to the existing post and wall via drilling into them. Ask him to explain a Bond Beam System. This is not a quick fix so expect him to invest some time and effort. Good luck and let us know the outcome.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> concrete masonry, if you look at both sides, you can see fracturing on the ends. Same with the crack up the middle. My bet is that like someone else stated about the footer on that end sinking. That there is probably no Lintel up there to support that "Arch".
> 
> The OP needs to take off all Fascia on both sides, along with take off the ceiling in the porch area, to see what it looks like up there. Same with checking how far the footers are, and use a level or laser (ie hire a surveyor or engineer to check for plumb on the structure).
> 
> ...


You can offer your uneducated opinion all you want, but regardless, it's NOT AN ARCH. That was destined to fail from the moment it was built, Concretemasonry is spot on in his asessement...........


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## wk5h (Apr 5, 2014)

Sorry for taking so long to post a reply; work's been busy, and the weekend was spent with my son.

I did contact a local mason that came highly rated from several people around here. Problem is, he won't be available to even look at it until mid June. I guess, like doctors, the good ones are hard to get appointments with.

This, from all I can tell, looks to be original to the house. I can find nothing to make me believe this was an addition, due to the brick and stone work being consistent with the rest of the original parts of the house.

As far as city code goes, I don't have much to worry about. Our code enforcement here is rather non-existent. I don't say this in a fashion to make it out like I am trying to skirt around codes; they have their place and for good reasons. Just saying that there are far worse things that have gone on around this town for years, and nothing is ever done. The code enforcement, along with several other city services, sadly, are a long standing joke.

The poles, granted, are not the best solution, I know. They are there only for keeping it from falling further until the mason has a chance to look. I have just enough of a bind on them to keep them from slipping, and I check them daily to make sure they haven't moved. No, it's not the best, but, it's the best I can do at the moment. When I have some more time to put towards it, I will try to make it better. Without confusing others and myself on trying to describe this, unless the span decides to move against gravity, or someone runs into them - they do not look to be going anywhere soon. 

The opening that this spans is at the end of the porch, then a 3ft drop. There's not any traffic going under it. Yes, I know, this isn't any safer with no rail for a 3ft drop. After this is all fixed, my plans are for a railing to prevent any traffic under it, rather than just the drop off deterring travel plans underneath... Again, this scenario alone shows the lack of code enforcement.

Thank you all for the info and help on this; I have taken it all with gratitude. I will update this as soon as the mason is over and asses the situation and has a plan for remediation.


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## TheOldPro (Apr 11, 2014)

Definitely get a mason...they may save you from having to haul the arch away in the bed of your truck.


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