# Going to try powder joint compound



## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

I have to put new sheetrock in my den's wall and ceiling, besides 5-6 sheets in my kitchen.

I haven't used powdered joint compound since the early 80s and then prior. I thought I'd try it again. Since it's been years, I thought I'd lay the initial base coat for the tape using premixed green then the following coats with the powdered until I get the feel of it. I was going to use USG Easy Sand 90.

I was hoping it would dry faster than the premix so I can sand sooner, after the tape has been laid, moving to the Easy Sand 45 or 20 maybe.

Any comments? Am I nuts to try it again?


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## Marson (Jan 26, 2018)

JLawrence08648 said:


> I have to put new sheetrock in my den's wall and ceiling, besides 5-6 sheets in my kitchen.
> 
> I haven't used powdered joint compound since the early 80s and then prior. I thought I'd try it again. Since it's been years, I thought I'd lay the initial base coat for the tape using premixed green then the following coats with the powdered until I get the feel of it. I was going to use USG Easy Sand 90.
> 
> ...



First, putting setting type compound over premix is a no-no. That's because the EZ sand is harder than any bucket mud, and sanding it won't work out so well. If you're going with EZ sand, then put your tape down with it as well. 



I would set tape and put down a fill coat with EZ sand, then put a skim coat of bucket mud over it, which is easier to sand and goes on smoother. Sand when everything is good and dry.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Don’t even bother with the pre mix. And remember that the 20, 45, and 90 doesn’t DRY in that time, it just becomes unworkable....meaning that you can hit it with a second coat sooner. Tape and mud guys I work with don’t even sand between coats, just at the end ron


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> I was hoping it would dry faster than the premix so I can sand sooner, after the tape has been laid, moving to the Easy Sand 45 or 20 maybe.


You don't sand until after the last coat. Maybe knock down a ridge or something with the knife but this isn't like polyurethane where you sand between coats.


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

I did not know I couldn't put the powdered over the premix.

Is the powdered harder to sand than the premix? Harder where's it's frustrating?

I try to put the premix on thin that each coat looks like it's the final coat after sanding! where none or limited sanding between costs is necessary only to knock down some ridges or swirls. I use 80 and/or 120 grit sanding screens, mostly 120 as I've gotten better, then finish running over it quickly with 150 grit sandpaper to finish before priming/painting. I've never tried the 150 grit sanding screen.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> Is the powdered harder to sand than the premix?



Durabond is real hard to sand, EasySand isn't as bad although a little tougher than ready mix mud. On repairs or where a quicker turn around is needed I normally use a setting compound although when feasible I'll use ready mix mud for the final coat because it's easier to sand and can be smoothed out with a wet sponge when you need to limit the dust.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

You've gotten plenty of good advice, so don't bother with this approach. Also, please don't call it "powder". Whether it is powder or not is not the issue for you. The issue is whether it's a setting or drying compound. You are apparently talking about setting compound, which only comes in a powder. Drying compound comes in either a powder or premixed. As already mentioned, "Easy Sand" is only easy relative to Durabond, not relative to premixed drying compound. There is no benefit for you to use setting compound based on what you've said. However, if you plan on using mesh tape instead of paper tape, then you want to use setting compound for the _first_ coat, and then drying compound for the next 2 coats. That's because mesh tape is not strong enough for regular drying compound (setting compound is stronger than drying compound.) Otherwise, use paper tape, or FibaFuse.


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

Well I tried the dry Easy Sand 90. What a mess to mix. I have a hawk and mix it on there forming an indentation in the middle. The dry goes a long way however you do have to throw out whatever you've mixed when done. It goes on easy, dries much quicker than the bucket premixed, but HARD to screen, really hard. I'm not sure yet. I'm going to put a sanding screen on my palm sander and see.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

It should be mixed in a bucket with a mixing paddle, unless you have a tiny patch to do. And it doesn't dry any faster than premixed compound.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I usually use 20 minute mud which does dry a lot faster than ready mix j/c. All setting compounds will dry quicker than ready mix when the temps are cool and/or high humidity.


I usually mix setting compound in my mud pan but I generally just do repairs.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mark sr said:


> I usually use 20 minute mud which does dry a lot faster than ready mix j/c. All setting compounds will dry quicker than ready mix when the temps are cool and/or high humidity.



I have no idea where you guys are coming up with this. All I can assume is that you're talking about setting, not drying. Probably it seems like premixed compound takes longer to dry because it doesn't get hard until it's fully dry. Otherwise I can't believe that unless I see some official reference to it online. I can think of no reason at all it would dry faster.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Well I tried the dry Easy Sand 90. What a mess to mix. I have a hawk and mix it on there forming an indentation in the middle. The dry goes a long way however you do have to throw out whatever you've mixed when done. It goes on easy, dries much quicker than the bucket premixed, but HARD to screen, really hard. I'm not sure yet. I'm going to put a sanding screen on my palm sander and see.


"Palm sander" :surprise:


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

jeffnc said:


> I have no idea where you guys are coming up with this. All I can assume is that you're talking about setting, not drying. Probably it seems like premixed compound takes longer to dry because it doesn't get hard until it's fully dry. Otherwise I can't believe that unless I see some official reference to it online. I can think of no reason at all it would dry faster.


I don't do drywall but have used a very large amount of Plaster of Paris in the last 41 years.
You are correct on the term drying & set time.
Mark is also correct on the Humidity statement.
Being a SETTING compound contains Plaster of Paris it will set depending on the amount of Gypsum in the mixture, the amount of water used & the temp. of the water cold will slow the Set time & Hot water will increase the Set time.
Room temp. will have an effect on the Set time.
To allow the excess water from the mix to escape you will need to allow some extra time depending on the applied thickness, Humidity, amount of water used & temp. of the area


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

siffleur


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

siffleur said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_msJQcmdQE&t=200s
> 
> siffleur


The video on how to mix the setting compound does not follow the manufactures instructions on the proper method to mix Durabond 90.
UGS Hand Book page # 140 " Pour proper amount of clean drinking water into container. Dirty water ( such as that used to clean tools ) will contaminate compound and cause erratic hardening of Durabond compound. The amounts for type of application and product used are shown on the container."
" Sift joint compound into water, ALLOWING complete wetting of the powder.
" Mix as shown "


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

ClarenceBauer said:


> The video on how to mix the setting compound does not follow the manufactures instructions on the proper method to mix Durabond 90.
> UGS Hand Book page # 140 " Pour proper amount of clean drinking water into container. Dirty water ( such as that used to clean tools ) will contaminate compound and cause erratic hardening of Durabond compound. The amounts for type of application and product used are shown on the container."
> " Sift joint compound into water, ALLOWING complete wetting of the powder.
> " Mix as shown "


ClarenceBauer, with all due respect, this guy says he has been doing this for 40 years. One would think that he has it down. Also, it looked to me like he was pouring clean water from one bucket to the mix bucket. I am not sure what you are trying to say.

siffleur


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

siffleur said:


> this guy says he has been doing this for 40 years. One would think that he has it down.



I'm not saying he does or doesn't, but in my experience, how long you've done something a certain way means nothing more than you've never changed. I've seen people doing horrible things because some guy 40 years ago told him to do it that way, and they never thought about it more than that.


Half the tradespeople I know do crappy work, and it could be improved immensely by doing nothing more than reading the instructions for 60 seconds.


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

jeffnc said:


> I'm not saying he does or doesn't, but in my experience, how long you've done something a certain way means nothing more than you've never changed. I've seen people doing horrible things because some guy 40 years ago told him to do it that way, and they never thought about it more than that.
> 
> Half the tradespeople I know do crappy work, and it could be improved immensely by doing nothing more than reading the instructions for 60 seconds.


Agree completely with the first paragraph, disagree with the second, IMO 80%-85% do crappy work because they don't know what they are doing.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

jeffnc said:


> I'm not saying he does or doesn't, but in my experience, how long you've done something a certain way means nothing more than you've never changed. I've seen people doing horrible things because some guy 40 years ago told him to do it that way, and they never thought about it more than that.
> 
> 
> Half the tradespeople I know do crappy work, and it could be improved immensely by doing nothing more than reading the instructions for 60 seconds.


jeffnc, did you hear this guy say that while he owns the company, he still prefers to be "on the job" because he does not trust most workers to do as good a job as he does?

siffleur


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

siffleur said:


> ClarenceBauer, with all due respect, this guy says he has been doing this for 40 years. One would think that he has it down. Also, it looked to me like he was pouring clean water from one bucket to the mix bucket. I am not sure what you are trying to say.
> 
> siffleur


I was stating what USG's written mixing instructions were.
The guy poured the water in a clean pail correct. Than poured from the bag the DuraBond 90. Than started mixing.
Now I also have 41 years in the Plaster trade to get the correct amount of water into the Gypsum you should sprinkle "Sift" the mix into the water when the mix has taken up all the water it is ready to be mixed with a "commercial potato masher". or a Drill operating @400 rpm max. being he is giving instructions on the proper way to mix the material he should state the drill rpm to be used, note some drills operate at a very high rpm compared to the 400 rpm max. Mixing @ a high rpm could & will affect the set time. Also NOTE he stated that there were lumps in his mix, the hand book also addresses that problem & his response was not the correct answer.
His method could very well induce to much water into the mixture affecting the final strength & set time.
Yes I have many short cuts & some maybe better for my method of applying plaster products but I would not instruct you to use my method instead of the written instructions of the manufacture. Yes I use Gypsum products in a way NOT recommended by the written instructions but if I stated that you could do the same it may very well cause you problems. If you need examples try running plaster cornice work with straight Hydro-Cal Cement Plaster I have been doing it for the past 35 years ( it is not recommended ) but works very well first used in 1980 the Cornish is still preforming with no problems and it is in the Cathedral of Saint Johns the Baptist.


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

I called USG Technical Support specifically the team that deals with joint compound.

Don't count on Durabond to be able to sand. The term Easy Sand refers that it is easier to sand than Durabond but do not expect to sand it. It is expected to be used only as a first thin coat for the tape, then after that to use the premix. It's not recommended to be used for any succeeding coats due to difficulty sanding. They said put it in thin and chip off any bumps.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Easy Sand actually sands OK. Not as well as standard of course. That is why you don't want to mix them if you're going to be sanding both layers. This can happen in some situations either when you put on the first layer too thick, or if you're doing some patch where the wall or the patch is not very level. You don't want to be sanding where part of the walls comes off quicker than another part. But if it's all Easy Sand, it's not bad. Durabond I would call unsandable.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Agree completely with the first paragraph, disagree with the second, IMO 80%-85% do crappy work because they don't know what they are doing.


Are you saying it's 85% instead of 50%? Otherwise I don't think we disagree. Sometimes just reading the instructions will let them know what they're supposed to be doing, but they can't be bothered to even do that.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> The term Easy Sand refers that it is easier to sand than Durabond but do not expect to sand it. It is expected to be used only as a first thin coat for the tape, then after that to use the premix.



I prefer Durabond but locally it's getting harder to find. When doing patch work I normally apply 2 coats of setting compound with only the final coat being premixed j/c. That has always worked well for me although I don't think I've ever sanded the 2nd coat.


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

I have to apologize to jeffnc and others on here for my saying Easy Sand 90 was difficult to sand. The other day I quickly hit the Easy Sand 90 before dinner. I was not in the position to make a fair determination. Today I had the time to actually screen sand it using a 80 grit screen. It wasn't bad, it sanded perfectly acceptable. For the first coat using tape, it may be the best way to go as I feel there will be less chance of the tape pulling away. Though those who are experienced ensure there's sufficient compound under and over the tape to eliminate bubbles and have good technique to prevent such.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Though those who are experienced ensure there's sufficient compound under and over the tape to eliminate bubbles and have good technique to prevent such.



Yes and if you are not confident with paper I recommend FibaFuse. No bubbles, and stronger than mesh tape. In fact I use it for most drywall work I do (but not corners.)


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

jeffnc said:


> Yes and if you are not confident with paper I recommend FibaFuse. No bubbles, and stronger than mesh tape. In fact I use it for most drywall work I do (but not corners.)


I am very confident with paper. I ordered the Fibafuse from Home Depot. 76% stronger than paper? I have a kitchen sheetrock valance I want to use it on. It was built very poorly and I'm strengthening it using screws.

Thanks for the tip.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

*Re: Drywall Doctor*



JLawrence08648 said:


> I have to put new sheetrock in my den's wall and ceiling, besides 5-6 sheets in my kitchen.
> 
> I haven't used powdered joint compound since the early 80s and then prior. I thought I'd try it again. Since it's been years, I thought I'd lay the initial base coat for the tape using premixed green then the following coats with the powdered until I get the feel of it. I was going to use USG Easy Sand 90.
> 
> ...


Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHZ1ELrSnYrnw5ujBZZbhog

siffleur


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## JLawrence08648 (Mar 1, 2019)

Another thing I disct using Easy Sand, forget about using a utility knife over it. It's concrete! I tried to slice through 1" length, forget about it! That 1" attempt dulled a new blade completely besides not making a mark.


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