# Concrete steps with one side against wall



## pls8xx (May 2, 2009)

I think the forming is the least of your problems. You need to back up and work on the step and landing design. There are standards for the relationship of step riser to tread and what I see in the photo looks way off.


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## johnnyconcrete (Apr 8, 2011)

Usually the riser is 6 - 8 inches high and the tread at least 10 inches, but 12 inches is better.


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## stuart45 (Jun 20, 2009)

Got to agree with pls8xx and johnnyconcrete. The treads look too short.
Risers should be the same height for all the steps as should the treads. Just having one a different height can throw you off balance as you walk down them. I would say that you need to increase the number of steps and bring them out further at the bottom, before returning them round the corner as a wider step.


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## johnnyconcrete (Apr 8, 2011)

You've pretty much picked the hardest thing to do with concrete. Steps. I'm not going to get into the shape and size of your existing steps, just what to do about new ones. So, here goes. 3/4 inch plywood makes pretty good forms for steps as does stacking 2 x 8's and 10's and so on. You've got an L shape so nail your forms together to make that shape. It's best if you do that right where they forms are going to sit on the ground. Once the forms are in place you'll need some stakes. Both metal ones with nail holes in them (Home Depot and others have them) and wood ones. Once your forms are where you want them, hammer some wood stakes into the ground on the outside of your forms, but right snug up against them. Then nail or screw the stakes to the forms. Next mark the inside of the forms where the steps are going to go and do the same on the brick wall too. Make sure you have the correct height for each step as well as the correct distance each step is from the one below as well as the one above. Next cut your riser boards to same demensions as each step will be. Since one end of your riser is a brick wall it's possible each riser board might be slightly different in length. Once you have the riser boards cut start at the bottom step and nail or screw it to your plywood side. If that first riser is resting on existing concrete you're set if not then take a metal stake and, holding the riser board at the proper spot, hammer the stake into the ground reasonably close to the brick wall and up against your riser and on the side of the riser that won't have any concrete against it. Usually I keep the riser board a little higher on the brick wall side when I nail the stake to it. Then I place a level on top of the riser board and hammer the stake further into the ground to get the correct level. Once all the risers are set you'll need the brace the outside of the plywood form with inward pressure toward the brick wall. Get some 2 x 4's for this or shovel a plenty of dirt against the plywood. Believe me, there' s no such thing as too much bracing. Now there's only one thing left. The riser boards are nailed to your plywood form so they won't shift at all on that end if your plywood has plenty of bracing. And on the brick side they are at kept at the correct height by the metal stakes, but so far nothing is keeping them from moving forward when you start adding concrete. One method that can work is to brace each riser board off the one below it. This can work, but every riser is dependent upon the one below it and they're all depending upon the lowest one to hold it all together. In your case I would do it a little differently. Where each riser board meets the brick wall I would drill a small hole into the mortar on the none concrete side of the riser and about half way between the top of the board and the bottom. One hole for each riser. Put a nail or screw or something metal into the hole making sure at least two inches or so is protruding out. Make sure the holes are so that when your nails are sticking out they are snug against the riser boards. After you have finished your steps just mix up a small amount of mortar and refill the holes. One more thing, start at the lowest step when adding concrete. Make sure the riser board hasn't shifted and is solid before going to the next higher step. And FYI, when ever I form steps it's a lot of trial and error and lots more of cussin'. Hope this wasn't too much info. Good luck.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

johnnyconcrete said:


> Hope this wasn't too much info. Good luck.


Not too much info but more than one paragraph would have been nice. 

That was a tough read. 8|


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## oxicottin (Apr 20, 2008)

Thank you all for the posts especially johnnyconcrete for the well explained post. Does anyone have any links or examples of my situation, also how thick does the landing and steps have to be? I live in WV if that matters.


Here is exactly what was here before I busted it all out and I must tell you when they built things years ago they built it to last... It was so thick! I had to rent an air jackhammer!


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## Marvel (Sep 22, 2011)

I would consider constructing the flat slab at two different levels, one being the existing slab elevation. Step the slab down in line with the existing building face and then run the steps to the drive from the lower slab. The pic indicates something like 30 inches of rise from the drive and you don't have sufficient distance (or so it looks) from the house corner to the drive to have treads of sufficient depth.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Hi!
7.5 inch rise looks good - not with 8 1/4 inch tread(run) -
the "magic number" is 18 to 18.5 inches - rise plus run.
Used to be 17 to 17.5 - things change!
Think about adding some "rebar" -
Also, dig it out and add some "compacted gravel".
Just some thoughts! 
I'm sure others will "chime-in".
Yeah what "Marvel" says.

rossfingal


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## oxicottin (Apr 20, 2008)

So im short 3 1/4" on the treads.... There is no way I can do that, looks like the standard back then was whatever fit was good. My second approach was to do a path/ramp down the yard to the center of my driveway and skip the steps because its just not doable if I stick to the current standards. What degree slope would be the max for a path/ramp? For example every 4' is ? slope.... Thanks!


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## Marvel (Sep 22, 2011)

It would be alot simpler to adopt my suggestion - am really not sure why you perceive this as difficult as its a very common solution.

Agree with the rebar suggestion - should be one in each nosing too.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

What I said is the current "rule of thumb" - 
You're constrained by existing conditions -
set the height of the landing the same as the upper set of stairs -
same rise -
Then set the height of the stairs down to your driveway, with least 
amount of rise you can get away with.
Remember the "compacted" gravel - "Rebar" isn't a must; but, it's a good idea!
There are people out there who build stairs - some say it's OK to
alter the rise/run at a landing - I don't know -
and I've built (Quite a few) - I liked to see everything the same.
You could always put a "winder" off the corner - don't like that -
Your place - your call.
Don't know your location - where I'm at; there can be a difference
of 3/8 inch for rise (not acceptable to me - but) -
You could drop the level of the landing 3/8 inch; and, drop the rise
on the steps to the driveway?!
4 to 6 inches compacted gravel!
Don't worry - it's not a "job" - got to have a little adventure in life! 

rossfingal

Just to throw in with what "Marvel" says - rebar - also in the "Nosing" too!
Remember - "Landings" are 3 ft. by 3 ft. - !!!


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I would move the steps away from the garage wall as well with the dimensions you have. 

The "maximum" I would try to achieve is 1" rise per foot of run(1:12), but realize that even that is fairly steep and often looks strange. 

Personally, if it was mine, I'd make it a series of landing, like 3' treads, until you get to the driveway elevation, with the last tread connecting to the driveway. You would likely need a short retaining wall of some sort against the garage wall though.


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