# Pictures after Installers came to fix Konecto



## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

This is what we are *still *dealing with. I guess it is time to get a independent inspector. Rolling should no longer be an issue. 

The pictures with the papers taped all over the floor are spots it is lifted. This is after the installers came to repair. Those papers are marked on the upstairs osb level. The downstairs are pictured in the last two photos. The downstairs is absolutely hopeless with the lifting it is EVERYWHERE!! I did not even bother to mark it. I would be there for hours.

This is all part of my ongoing konecto opinion, review, issues and problems.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Somebody would be hearing from my attorney. :no:


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## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

There are usually hammering blocks supplied or available with most laminate flooring. My guess is they did not use them.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

*Climatize*

Did they climatize the flooring? By that I mean did they bring the packages in and open them and let them adjust to your humidity for 2-4 weeks? I see that your in Alaska. Did they bring it in from the cold? Did they leave an end gap? Sure doesnt look like it. If your floor is a floating type then all is not lost. They must pull it up let it acclimate to your house then lay it again with a nice end gap. There is no other fixing that I know of except do it again. It has expanded. No amount of rolling will fix it. Best of luck, Dorf Dude...


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Thanks everyone*

We originally installed the floors ourselves (a mistake if you want credibility). Yes we did acclimate the floor and yada yada yada. The rep. thought we did not roll the floor as well as the retailer. So 3.5 months later they send in their own installers to fix what we apparently screwed up on. I say that with a tad bit of sarcasm because if you look at my many other posts we rolled rolled and rolled. So lo and behold the fixers were not able to fix because the fault lies in the adhesive to begin with. No amount of rolling will help because there is simply faulty glue. So they did use the "konecto repair glue on about 25 planks or so and those did stick but only where they put the glue. . . Not on the edges the glue did not spread to." So back to square one and not much cooperation anticipated. So that is why I am asking for an independent inspector and then after possibly a lawyer. We have been hopeful that parties involved would step up and do the right thing for someone who has done probably more than 90% of the people to install and keep this floor down. Especially to someone who has spent over $12,000 in a particular flooring store. We have over $11,000 alone into the Konecto. This stuff (our batch) is junk.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

This is my first seeing your dilema. I'm in Germany and we don't glue laminate floors to the sub floor. We let them free float with a minimum 1/2 inch gap all around. We glue the tougne and groove but not to the floor. This eliminates the bulging problems. Your floor is expanding and has no where to go but up. It can't go out, side to side or end to end because it is glued in spots. Quote " So they did use the "konecto repair glue on about 25 planks or so and those did stick but only where they put the glue. . . Not on the edges the glue did not spread to." I'm sorry that you have spent so much money but I don't think it is the flooring that is the problem. I have layed massive wood floors and laminate, different procedures for each. I have about 850 sq ft of laminate to lay in my house come this summer. It will be free floating. I will post for all to see how it turns out. I do wish you the best of all outcomes with out getting any scum bag laywers involved. Again all the best for your outcome, Dorf Dude...


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Wow Germany!!!*

It is amazing on how available communication can be on the web. I have a friend from Germany. She came back about a month ago after visiting her mother. Her mother is quite elderly now.

I just thought I should add to the information that Konecto is not a true laminate. It is a type of floor that is in planks like laminate but is made out of vinyl and actually adheres to one another. It is a floating floor. All that is needed it supposedly a utility knife, some measuring, and lots of rolling rolling rolling. Of course that is after you acclimate it and store it upside down. 

:no:


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

We don't have that system here. I have tried to help with what I know. Your floor is not "Floating" It is binding and that is why it is bulging for what ever reason. I have looked at the factories web page and they insist that you must mix at least 3 packages with different manufacture dates. This must be due to inconsisties in their manufacture. Again sorry for so much heart ache that your having. I think it must be pulled up and redone. No other way around it. Best of luck, Dorf Dude...


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

Another indi inspector would provide another opinion on the product and it's installation.
Sometimes it's the way it needs to go.
Whatever gets this to a resolution.

Looks like a great house. I hope for the best.


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Small Update*

Retailer called this afternoon and said they would look into getting an independent inspector. So far they are the only ones to contact us. No word from rep. or company. 

1/5/2009


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Another Unfortunate Update on Konecto Nightmare*

We had a phone call last Monday (January 5) from our retailer saying they would "try" to find an independent inspector. Yesterday (11:53 am Saturday - January 10) we were gone all day and received a message stating to call them back. So we will call them Monday first thing. 

In the meantime on Friday evening (January 9) we sent them all (Konecto rep. / Metrofloor / Retailer) a 2nd notice because we still had not heard anything about an inspector or anything at all. Maybe yesterday (Saturday) was in regards to that but not sure. This time we gave them a deadline. If we do not get the desired results by the 19th of January we will be hiring a lawyer. 

This is an adhesive issue. We tried to ask for an exchange to begin with on the flooring we have for same exact product but different lot #'s. Then we asked for just the glue and they had installers come and attempt to fix the planks that we supposedly did not roll. That did not work (surprise surprise surpsrise) 
We have been gracious and most patient. We have tried everything. The majority would not have let this go on to this point.


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

> We also know of about 6 other people who have had problems after spreading the word with this particular retail store. We had good intentions of trying to support your local neighbor. But no more. We have had it.


You will not be guaranteed any better results by buying online or thru a long distance source. I understand about boycotting the store but not ALL local retailers.
Please continue to fill us in on what happens to your floor.


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Update*

Spoke with the Retailer this early Monday A.M. and they informed us they were able to locate a independent inspector. They are waiting on some info. from SeaPac to proceed. 

The retailer informed us that NOW SeaPac is willing to exchange the flooring out for a new batch (LOT). Just what we wanted at the very very beginning.

We think..... it is probably best to wait for the inspector. 

I am not knocking *all* local retailers but I know Home Depot. Lowes or Costco would have taken back or exchanged the product right from the GetGo without any questions. I have seen it done.


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

They probably would have and I would agree that the retailer maybe should have done so as well. However I do not know the entire story from all sides.
I would wait for the inspector too because it would be nice to hear some fresh thoughts before you decide on what to do.
It seems like things are moving forward for you and that is nice to hear.
I hope to keep hearing good news from you in the future.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

I understand your frustration but I'd have to say that it sounds like your retailer is trying to do the right thing for you. 

Put yourself in their shoes. They have no idea if you installed it right but they were willing to send someone out to fix it. Then, from those results, they were able to determine that you had installed according to directions and that glue failure was a problem. Now they agree to replace the flooring. Have you paid for any of this besides the initial floor? If not then you should be delighted with their continued efforts to back up their product but understandably dissappointed that they didn't know enough about it to prevent the problem.

Will they install the new flooring at no cost? If so, then I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. As far as the big box chains - yes, they probably would have replaced the flooring right away and then you would have installed it the same way with the same bad results and they would have shrugged their shoulders. Your store has hopefully figured out what went wrong in a methodical manner rather than just throw replacement material at it in hopes that it will magically go away.


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*More input*



> Put yourself in their shoes. They have no idea if you installed it right but they were willing to send someone out to fix it. Then, from those results, they were able to determine that you had installed according to directions and that glue failure was a problem. Now they agree to replace the flooring. Have you paid for any of this besides the initial floor? If not then you should be delighted with their continued efforts to back up their product but understandably dissappointed that they didn't know enough about it to prevent the problem.


No - they did not send someone out to fix it at first. One of the individuals from the retail store came along with the rep. and both decided to take away with them info. they chose to hear which is that we did not use the 100 lb roller only a kitchen hand roller. Although I emphasized we rolled rolled and rolled with the 100 lb. roller we borrowed from the retail store along with the kitchen hand roller. Plus we went back with a blow dryer and hand roller to "REACTIVATE" the glue. Did not work. So then about 4 months later Sea Pac paid to have the retail stores installers out to fix what could not be fixed. We requested an independent inspector and it looks like we might see one sometime soon according to the latest conversations with the retailer. They (sea pac) agree to *exchange* for like product the 77 boxes plus the one they took for testing after all this time. Originally that would have worked and been ideal but not anymore. We have zero faith in Konecto with all the stories we have heard. Plus we have a local contractor who had his money returned and the floor in his beautiful home replaced. Same stuff. 
As you said YES - We are frustrated and my kids are living out of boxes basically because they cannot be in the rooms affected of which one is their new bedroom and these companies involved have been dragging their feet. It is not their problem to live with everyday so why hurry? 

I would not consider adhesive failure on this product an installation issue if you are familiar with said product. Like product would not install with same poor results if product was manufactured as supposed to be. 

Of course they will not pay to have it installed. 

Some might call that workable???? I am not so sure - somewhat workable possible but not wholly???? So far the finger has consistently pointed to us. :wink: 

I have tried to present all facts and know some think otherwise.


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## SurfingCalifornia (Jan 8, 2009)

"Why else would they not exchange our flooring for a different lot?"

Is this something the retailer has sitting at the store? If so, I agree with you.

If they don't have more at the store, wouldn't they have to order it and depending on where you guys are located, the shipping could be expensive.


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Clarification*

I am not expecting the retailer to replace the flooring at their cost. I am talking about Konecto or SeaPac. They could have sent replacement immediately after seeing situation initially. They both have the ability to absorb the cost especially when it is a product defect.


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## detailedEye (Aug 12, 2008)

I would aim for a refund and pick a new floor material, this has clearly been a major hassle and no flooring is worth the aggrevation you've endured. Even a partial refund would likely be a faster resolution than dragging it into court...IMHO.


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## coloradoski (Jan 19, 2009)

*Inspector Guidelines*

I ran across this and wanted to paste it here. Sorry for your frustration Jenny.

*Customer Relations for the Flooring Inspector*








We are all consumers and we all encounter products or services that do not meet our expectations. The consumer having a problem with their floor covering is no different from you or me. The flooring they paid good money for is not living up to their expectations.
When I first became involved in complaint handling, I thought I would see a lot of people trying to get something for nothing. The complete opposite has proven to be the case. In all the years I have been doing inspections less than a handful has met that criteria. The overwhelming majority just want what they paid for.







Many complaints are never reported. Many that do complain only do so after they become convinced they are not at fault. A typical consumer will tell you that he or she noticed the problem months ago but thought that if they just vacuumed more or had it cleaned, it would look better. Unfortunately, in our industry, complaints are often neglected. When addressed, *more is done to shift responsibility than to resolve the complaint.*
When dealing with an unhappy consumer, it is not wise to become defensive or take the discussion personally. Remember they are not angry with you, but at the situation. The types of personalities you will encounter will run from meek and mild to aggressive. The most important thing is to listen. You will be surprised at how simply this will smooth the inspection process. Do not go to the consumer’s home with any preconceived ideas about the product, the problem, or the consumer.







As an independent inspector you have the responsibility to provide the commissioning party unbiased, truthful information and accurate, just conclusions.
Your report is the property of the commissioning party, and you have an obligation to discuss the inspection report with no one other than the commissioning party, even the consumer without written consent of the commissioning party. However all involved in the complaint deserve your best unbiased, honest opinion.







You will never win an argument with a consumer. Simple courtesy is required even if the consumer isn't courteous. Everything you say will be important and may be misconstrued. If you don't know the answer to a question, say "I don't know." These are sometimes very hard words to say because everyone is expecting you to know. To them, you are the expert. Flooring is a very complicated product and is becoming more complex all the time. No one knows all there is to know.
Virtually all consumers with floor covering problems can show you the problem and you will be able to see the problem. This does not mean necessarily that there is anything wrong, but to them, it is wrong. For instance matting and crushing is a common complaint usually perceived as wear but is not considered to be a defect. It may be that it is wrong but not a manufacturing defect, as in the case of an installation error or poor maintenance. The consumer, by and large, is not interested in who is at fault; but is interested in getting something done. The consumer is the most important element in the floorcovering industry and deserves to be treated with respect and consideration. Ultimately, they are the ones who write the checks.


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## jennydavis (Sep 13, 2008)

*Final outcome with recommendation*

Yep - we battled this all winter long. It was too much money to give away and we did not like being called liars.

We finally inconvenienced ourselves yet again and moved out of a third room and installed the flooring in it to prove we installed correctly as we have said all along. This is not a concrete floor nor a radiant heat floor. Just your normal acceptable sub floor in a room with baseboard heat.

We went above and beyond the requirements.

We leveled the floor almost perfectly. Sanded all the seams and then used a laser level to prove it was level. We cleaned the floor meticulously. We used an infrared heat thermometer to record the heat directly in the floor and acclimated the Konecto floor directly in the room for 50 hours. We had the heat in the room in the upper 70's and kept it for 3 days before and 3 days after installation at that temp. This was also recorded. We had several witnesses come and help and we recorded the process from start to finish. We had the rolling process with the hand roller specified as acceptable to use recorded and then the 100 pound roller recorded as it was used all during installation. We rolled several times over and over on each seam with the hand roller and then as a row was laid down we rolled over and over with the 100 pound roller. After the floor was completely installed it was rolled in all directions many many times and recorded. Shortly within hours after installation the floor lifted at the seams just like the other rooms. Same exact results that the other parties tried to blame on us. Only now we have the *proof* to show we did everything as required and correctly that they claimed we did not do. 
It looks horrible and it is a tripping hazard. 
Our Konecto that we purchased was and is genuinely defective JUNK!!! 

We took this new indisputable evidence to our retailer's lawyer father and left it in their hands to look at. They could refund our money or we could go to court. They chose to settle out of court.

We finally just picked up and out of court settlement yesterday of $9,000.00 dollars from our retailer and distributor. It is still over $2,000 off from our original purchase price but it will suffice. We did hire a lawyer but we received the settlement offer about the same time so decided to just get it over with. We had so much evidence against them at this point but honestly just wanted to move on and not wait another 6 months to get it over with. 

So I just want others considering Konecto (I believe Allure is safer because Home Depot has an incredible return policy) to think about it and *get it in writing before they purchase that the retailer will refund or replace your flooring* if it does not stick together. It would be wise to have a video taping of the whole process to prove all of your steps. 
Konecto is a gamble and there are retailers in the same state as us that have similiar problems with lifting like us. A major company in a large city near us told us about their experience. Same distibutor and same ridiculous reasons for the problems being blamed on them too. It is a recurring problem and in our case a definite situation where the glue was defective. 

There is a hit and miss with Konecto and when it is miss Metroflor will not stand behind it. They chose to side with the lies given by our retailer and distributor and not the truth. 

We recently spent extra money on really good laminate flooring rated #2 in consumers report and now have wonderful flooring for all but our basement area. It is beautiful and we know the retailer we chose this time will absolutely back us 100% and will not be dishonest with us.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks for the info & update
Another product & company to stay away from

Closing in on 1600 views
Maybe point them in the direction of this web-site to show them how much $$ they lose by not making things 100% right


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I pointed out the problems with Konecto and Metroflor on another thread on this subject and was attacked by a Konecto distributor who posts here. This distributor has been banned from most professional flooring forums for not following the rules. So I expect to get attacked again.


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## wolfden (Jul 6, 2009)

*konecto*

Oh, I wish we would have seen your pictures before we spent $6.000.00 on a Konecto floor. We are starting the long involved process of trying to get them to fit it. We had a very reliable pro install ours and it still is popping up. We could tell by the inspector sent out today it is going to be a fight. Hope your's turned out good. Thanks for the info wish we had seen it before we got the Konecto. Carol


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## brianmc (Sep 25, 2009)

*reply*

I work for a distributor on the east coast. I've been selling Konnecto for the past 2 years. Konecto is a great product, IF ALL installation instructions ARE FOLLOWED. If they are not, you WILL have a failure, period. There are four main steps to follow. 1, you must acclimate the product. 2, you have to keep the glue ends clean of dirt and dust. The more dirt and dust on the glue ends, the less adhesive you will have. 3, you must hand roll each joint while you install. 4, you must use a 100 lb. roller over each joint. Go north and south, east and west. If you miss a joint, that will be the one that causes a problem. Brian Mc


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

brianmc said:


> I work for a distributor on the east coast. I've been selling Konnecto for the past 2 years. Konecto is a great product, IF ALL installation instructions ARE FOLLOWED. If they are not, you WILL have a failure, period. There are four main steps to follow. 1, you must acclimate the product. 2, you have to keep the glue ends clean of dirt and dust. The more dirt and dust on the glue ends, the less adhesive you will have. 3, you must hand roll each joint while you install. 4, you must use a 100 lb. roller over each joint. Go north and south, east and west. If you miss a joint, that will be the one that causes a problem. Brian Mc


and your explanation of the jennydavis outcome ????


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

There are many stories on other forums of Konecto failures. Some of the people bragging on the product are distributors and retailors who sell it.


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## sheetgoods (Jan 6, 2010)

Konecto is so easy even a caveman can do it but if its a bad batch it wont stick. Those pictures are a reallity.


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