# What to do for Spray Foam Smell?



## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

So, I'm regretting my decision on the SPF. My family spent the entire weekend away from our home due to the strong odor. I pulled some of the batts and was troubled my what I saw. In just a handful of spot checks, I found areas where the foam did not expand or react. It appears to be the source of the odor. The installer has been responsive so far, we'll see what they say tomorrow when I send in the pictures.

In any case, has anyone seen something like his? What would you recommend to remedy the situation?


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

The installer has admitted a mistake was made and came back this morning to start scraping it off. If anyone has been through something like this, I'd love to hear some advice. I'm very stressed out.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

That foam appears that it was mixed improperly.

Call the company out ASAP.

If that is the case, they are going to need to remove and abate all of that and clean the substrate prior to re-applying. 

Do not linger in the home for any amount of time.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yeah, you might have a pretty big problem. There are nasty chemicals in the spray-foam. They are supposed to be fully safe when they react and cure, but if yours was not mixed properly it will not cure. It only takes a few minutes for it to cure, if it has not cured up to now, its not going to cure. Do a Google search for "sprayfoam smell" or similar and you will find lots of information. You probably want to talk to your insurance company -- they may have access to the expertise to make sure it gets fixed properly. Maybe talk to the manufacturer of the sprayfoam.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

Windows on Wash said:


> That foam appears that it was mixed improperly.
> 
> Call the company out ASAP.
> 
> ...


The installer was there this morning cleaning the bad areas. I'm concerned about the integrity of the entire basement now.

How do I clean out the foundation walls? They appear much darker than pre-application?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Talk to the manufacturer and tell them about your situation. They will tell you what will need to be done and they should be very, very interested in getting this resolved quickly and to your 100% satisfaction.


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## eurobound (Mar 12, 2014)

i feel for you. there is a lot of information about the dangers of improperly mixed spray foam... stay the heck out of the house! those smells are toxic fumes leaking from the spray!

good that the contractor fessed up... there are lawsuits in the USA already regarding this... do some research... 

post back when it's fixed and good luck with the repair!
D.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

mklein49 said:


> How do I clean out the foundation walls?


 Why are you cleaning it anyways ? Don't let the contractor walk away from this, or tell you it just needs to air out a little. Get professional help.


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## eurobound (Mar 12, 2014)

SPS-1 said:


> Why are you cleaning it anyways ? Don't let the contractor walk away from this, or tell you it just needs to air out a little. Get professional help.


good point! you shouldn't even be in the house! they are supposed to close off the entire basement and wear tyvek suits, masks, etc. etc... toxic, toxic, toxic...and fix everything themselves...


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

That home is not a safe of healthy environment right now. 

There is a reason that the applicators where masks and respirators when they put it on.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

So me and my family are generally out of the home. We've been back to pack and things like that. I've been in and out with the installer.

I'm not the one cleaning. The installer has admitted the error and they're the ones cleaning. I'm trying to determine how to know when the job is done well enough.

I'm meeting with a Dow (manufacturer) rep this morning at the home. The installer is claiming the remaining smell is from the fiberglass batts. I'm very skeptical. 

To make matters worse we have a 2 and half year old and my wife is 38 weeks pregnant. We're staying at my parents. It's not been a good couple of days.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Good to hear you are dealing with the manufacturer. He will have the resources to figure out how to handle it. This could get very expensive for somebody, but I would guess that the Dow rep is not going to risk a lawsuit by feeding you some c&(4b#ll line like "its the fiberglass batts that is giving off the smell"


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah...fiberglass doesn't typically smell unless it is covered in poorly mixed foam!!!


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

So the general consensus on the smell was that it's the binder in the fiberglass: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/smelly-fiberglass-batts We have the Owen's Corning Ecotouch insulation.

The off ratio foam has largely been cleaned up. So how do I feel comfortable that the cleanup was sufficient and the home is available for re-entry by my family.

Is anyone aware of an air quality test that can be performed?


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Probably worth a call to the EPA to see if they can suggest appropriate testing.
http://www.epa.gov/region07/citizens/pdf/healthy_homes_air_in_your_home.pdf see phone number in bottom corner.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

Finally, spoke with someone at Dow who I felt comfortable with. He had a recommended cleanup procedure. I passed along the procedure to the installer and requested it be performed prior to reapplication. I'll post some pictures tonight.

Man this has been a whirlwind the last few days. I'd recommend anyone who considers this do some research before they come to any conclusion regarding the suitability of products of this nature in their home.

I think we actually have a plan to get the family back in the home over the weekend.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

*Cleanup number 1*

Here are some pics after the first cleanup attempt by the installer...


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

*2nd attempt at cleanup*

Here are some pics from the 2nd attempt to cleanup by the installer:


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## MikeMKE (Mar 13, 2014)

What a nightmare! Hope this is all over for you soon.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

MikeMKE said:


> What a nightmare! Hope this is all over for you soon.


You're telling me. We had the product resprayed yesterday. We're planning on returning home today. Here are some pics about 2 hours post spray:


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

insane! after having that happen you did it again? No way would I ever use spray foam to insulate a home. the ROI on it is 30 plus years before it pays for itself. plus it is toxic as heck.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

Nailbags said:


> insane! after having that happen you did it again? No way would I ever use spray foam to insulate a home. the ROI on it is 30 plus years before it pays for itself. plus it is toxic as heck.


Well at this point we were pretty much stuck. The rest of the basement was already sprayed. This area was probably 10% of what we had. What choice did we have at that point other than trying to remove everything?

In any case, I would say there is a strong possibility we move. I'm not sure I'll ever sleep soundly in this house again as long as my wife and kids are here.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Nailbags said:


> insane! after having that happen you did it again? No way would I ever use spray foam to insulate a home. the ROI on it is 30 plus years before it pays for itself. plus it is toxic as heck.


I agree with you that SPF has some toxic elements but there are applications where it works great and will not take anywhere near 30 years to pay itself off. Not sure where that math came from.

Flash and batt is very effective and minimizes its use to predominantly air sealing benefits.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Not to be argumentive, I just look at some of the "air tight" homes I have done remodeling on and mold abatement. on homes built over the last 15 years. were poly was placed over the insulation there was mold growth on the back of the sheetrock, roofs and walls rotted from water damage were spray foam was used i.e. the HO never knew there was a leak because the foam held the water back. but when I have done remodels in older homes were there is none of this "air sealing" done there is no mold or rot. My question and it is just to toss out there. are we making homes that are prone to other problems down the road? and how much of a savings is it really? the dept of energy has never said how much one will save. Just that they say "Can save up to" x amount. Do we really save that amount??


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Nailbags,

I don't disagree with you. The fact that foam is an air barrier would naturally lend itself to trap moisture if there was an interior vapor retarder (poly). 

Who is putting poly over a wall that gets spray foamed? This is terrible application to put it mildly. 

While its a recipe for disaster, how do you blame the foam for that? 

A home that leaks a ton of air will normally stay dry but also cost a bunch more to heat and cool. 

OC SPF is water permeable and a leak will show through the foam at some point. 

I don't think we should build a bunch of homes that use a bunch of energy just to keep them dry as a result of poor application. 

Anyone that puts a poly over a wall with foam in it should have their butt kicked and certainly prevented from building or remodeling a home.


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## mmoses101-1 (Oct 16, 2012)

Windows on Wash said:


> Nailbags,
> 
> I don't think we should build a bunch of homes that use a bunch of energy just to keep them dry as a result of poor application.


+1


Nailbags,
"Do we really save that amount?? " I think the research clearly shows that you do. http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...pilot-community/view?topic=doctypes/bareports

"It's a long report but I think this gets to your question (pg87)
For the 27 comprehensive DER projects for which sufficient post-retrofit energy use data were available the mean reduction in total site energy use achieved is 58% with the site energy use reductions for individual projects ranging from 29% to 89%."


But it depends on a lot of variable, it has to be done right and you have to have a long term view.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

I was down in the basement today finishing up some last minute things for drywall. I noticed there is a definite difference in color between the two foam applications. The stuff done the first day is white in color, while the the reapplication was yellow. In one of my previous posts you can see the difference.

Sounds like white can be a b-rich indication and yellow can be an a-rich indication. Is there a band where each is acceptable? What color is desireable? Dow Froth-Pak sealant was used on the walls.


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## mklein49 (Dec 31, 2012)

Here are a couple of photos. The whiter shade is the old foam and yellower is the new. They are clearly different. Not sure how critical the color is?


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