# Build stairs to basement (none exist)



## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

We purchased a new home a little over a year ago in in Northern California. The builder added a 'basement' to the home, but its unfinished and only accessible from outside the home (i.e. you have to walk into the backyard in order to get to it). Well I really want to add stairs from inside the home down to the basement and am wondering if this is something I can do myself from a cost stand point. 

The biggest obstacle I see is the support beams we'd be cutting into run perpendicular to the "hole" we'd be cutting and I'm not sure how to reinforce them. 

Any help and suggestions would be appreciated as to how I should go about this.


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## mrgins (Jan 19, 2009)

you'll need to put in a double header to cap the end of the cut joists. Use joist hangers to support them. You will also need a 4x4 post below the point where the last uncut joist meets the doubled header. That hole may also need to be turned into an L shape if you don't have room to put the stairs in in one run and have to turn them


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## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks for the reply mrgins. Do you think this idea is feasible and the layout works?


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

can you turn the opening 90 degrees so that you have less floor structure to modify?? you are going to need at least the the same distance as the width of your stairs at the bottom and top as an ending point to turn and exit/enter the stairs. 

i recommend you research stair building so they come out to your expectations... you will have to do some basic math and take into account anticipated flooring changes upstairs or downstairs that may affect final step heights.

it is definitely a diy project.

rod


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## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

By rotating 90 degrees, do you mean something like this?


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## mrgins (Jan 19, 2009)

jaketoolson said:


> Thanks for the reply mrgins. Do you think this idea is feasible and the layout works?


It's very feasible, but the main thing to watch is the headroom. Google "stairs" to see what the requirements are for basement stairs. I believe it's 6'-8" from the top of the tread to the bottom of the ceiling directly above it. Use scrap wood to lay it out before you cut thru the floor. Good luck


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## wombosi (Apr 22, 2008)

definitely doable.

double header across the cut joists, and also double the joist that the header connects to.

you'll need to construct a temporary support in the basement before cutting the joists.

lay this out carefully though. as others have said, make sure you can fit stairs in the opening that leave enough headroom at the bottom.

easy layout from underneath with a laser level and some careful measurements.
building the stairs will be the easy part, believe it or not.


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## fungku (Jul 27, 2008)

jaketoolson said:


> By rotating 90 degrees, do you mean something like this?


that's 180 (a.k.a. "u-shaped"). you could potentially shorten the hole in the floor if you needed to by turning 90 (aka "L-shaped"). 









I don't know your code, but here is that if the header joist span is over 3.2m (10'-6") the header joists need to be engineer spec. And if the header joist is over 2m (6'-8"), the trimmer joists need to be engineer spec.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

rditz said:


> can you turn the opening 90 degrees so that you have less floor structure to modify??


You have more work that way because you have to make the opening L-shaped and have to support the inside corner of the opening where it turns 90°.

The way the OP has it is the easiest way to do it.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

this is a neat project-i want to see how it turns out!


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## fungku (Jul 27, 2008)

Joe Carola said:


> You have more work that way because you have to make the opening L-shaped and have to support the inside corner of the opening where it turns 90°.
> 
> The way the OP has it is the easiest way to do it.


he might have meant running the stairs so the long side would be the trimmer joists.


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

jaketoolson said:


> By rotating 90 degrees, do you mean something like this?


no, I meant in reference to your first sketch, turning the stairs 90 degrees so they were under the window..

rod


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

fungku said:


> he might have meant running the stairs so the long side would be the trimmer joists.


 yes that is what I meant.

that is how the stairs in my house were run and it meant that only 1 floor joist was cut out and the header was only supporting that one joist.. no temp wall was needed while rebuilding stairs.

I guess that because there is access from outside, these stairs will not have to accommodate carrying things like appliances, etc.

rod


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

you need a minimum of 3' finished clear landing top and bottom of stairs. is there enough space on your first drawing


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## mrgins (Jan 19, 2009)

Joe Carola said:


> You have more work that way because you have to make the opening L-shaped and have to support the inside corner of the opening where it turns 90°.
> 
> The way the OP has it is the easiest way to do it.


Joe is right. Making a square opening will be a lot easier for a first time DIYer.


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## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

Thank you everyone for you kind responses, opinions, and feedback. I'm not trying to say I thought this would be 'a great first time DIY' project, but, I didn't think it was impossible to consider either. My biggest concern was the floor joists running perpendicular to the plan I had but you've answered this already. 

My wife and I have considered many options as it pertains to where we wanted the stairs to be but never considered the idea of rotating them 90/180 degrees as mentioned above. This changes everything as it gives us a lot more options so we'll have to get back to the drawing board. One thing we aren't keen on is having a door down into the basement. Because we have kids who are 4 and younger we want to dedicate the basement area to a playroom of sorts and didn't want to have them closing the door etc; Any thoughts on this? I'm not sure what this means resale wise but it just seems cool 

The contractor who is building a home across the street from us mentioned something about needing a foundation at the top and bottom of stairs?! This kind of hit me by surprise and seemed silly as the basement floor is concrete would I really need to build a foundation around the base of the stairs?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"would I really need to build a foundation around the base of the stairs?" ---- *only* if the stair wall is bearing (carrying) the floor joists above. 

Here are some configurations, pp.46: http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ...#v=onepage&q=framing floor for stairs&f=false

Search all the books with a “Preview” after the title; http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=framing+floor+for+stairs&btnG=Search+Books

Gary


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## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

Gary thanks for the help! I don't anticipate there being a stair wall on the open side, especially if I reconsider the layout of the stairs by rotating them 90 at the top as suggested earlier. 

Right away, I just want to get this started and move forward. This doesn't mean that I'm trying to round corners or go cheap, but I just envisioned a simple stair case down to the basement - nothing fancy. But in the back of my mind if by adding a stair wall and door will help when it comes time to sell, I may just do this. "basements" (in the traditional sense) don't exist in this area at all and so its a rare addition. Luckily the contractor who finished our house saw the empty/unused space and framed it out. 

If only he had added the stairs in the first place, but instead he decided to carpet the downstairs bathroom ... sigh ...


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

kind of funny, but I watched a renovation program this week (Renovation Realities) and the project was exactly this, put a stairway in because none existed. I kept thinking, who would build a house with a basement and not design stairs to get to it?? weird..

anyways, good luck, would like to see pics as you do this...

rod


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## jaketoolson (Feb 22, 2011)

The home sat unfinished for a few months as the original builder went bankrupt... so the bank hired a contractor to finish it and he was nice enough to add the basement as it wasn't in the original plans, but I suppose adding the stairs was over budget ... but man the carpet in the bathroom is killer frustrating!


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

here is a set of stairs that I built. the opening wasn't long or wide enough, so I opened it up further. The stringers are 2x12 and 3/4" plywood treads. I then finished them with reclaimed barn boards from the house that were planed down and glued & screwed to the plywood treads and directly glued & screwed as risers. the bullnose was made by adding a piece of tread material to the underside of the new tread and (you guessed it) glue & screw. then route for the rounded shape.

then stain and poly. 

these stairs are about 42" wide and are a huge improvement over what we had.

I had to add the landing in order to achieve a balanced riser height in the amount of total length of the stair opening. as well as to have the turn at the bottom. 

my stairs run parallel with the ceiling joists which meant little alteration when widening and lengthening the opening.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff80/rditz/SAM_0209.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff80/rditz/SAM_0210.jpg

before anyone says anything, railing still to be built...

rod


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## Atish (Apr 1, 2011)

Also check te circular stairs, much neater and easier to install, I am also considering the circular stairs. They come pre built as per the size and you just install.

Saves lot of space and looks elegant, search google for circular stairs.

I am yet still researching on the size of the circle and what If have to take some big stuff down like a queen size matterss or a frig, will they go thru my circular stair.


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## atmironov (Apr 27, 2010)

You could always buys a prefab spiral staircase...
You hole would be smaller...

http://www.wagnerspiralstairs.com/pages/Wagnerspiralstairs.htm

But, here is the detail I used to frame my new stair case opening.
(This is for reference only. I take no responsibility in the sizing or method of installation. You should consult a structural engineer before proceeding)









Finally, for building the stairs, I used the GoPro universal stair bracket...
http://www.goproconstruction.com/gallery.html









After a few failed attempts at cutting the stringers the process was a cake walk.


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