# Ceiling drywall seams



## jsasso (Nov 28, 2018)

I got a new addition but I can notice lines in the ceiling drywall seams. During the day I can notice them with the sunlight, even after a coat of ultra dull ceiling paint.

The builder says this is due to the large bay window and that this is normal. But he has offered to skim coat the entire ceiling. Before I go that far, I am hoping to find out if this is normal results.

Would anyone be happy to accept this finish?

Do you think a skim coat will help?

Thanks,
James


Daytime (looked a little worse in person):
photos.app.goo.gl/zLA7hJoykSi2532Q7

Halogen held up to the ceiling:
photos.app.goo.gl/wwEf6kxm5iXZVEHf8


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

Me personally, I would not accept that as normal. I have done my own drywall work for years, and every time I do a room I learn something new. Properly taping and mudding a ceiling seam can turn out really good even without texture to "mask" the imperfections.



I'd consider it normal to be able to see a slight hump at the seams when viewed from the same plane, or be able to detect where the seams are in certain light. But what you are seeing is actually a difference in the texture as well, which means they didn't feather it out wide enough with a top coat to make the seam disappear.


A top coat over the whole ceiling will only be a great help if they rework the seams first, say to get them feathered to 12-15" wide and even parallel lines. Then a skim coat over the whole thing would get it all to the same sheen when finished.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

No, it's not normal. I've seen homes with ceilings that are not textured, 40' X 30' with one wall completely open to the west (wall of sliding nested french doors). Not one ripple.

Actually, it's like the taper left after doing only two coats and never feathered it out to 12-15" on either side.

Hopefully this fellow is licensed, you have a decent written contract and you have not paid him all his money.

I agree with the other poster that skim coating is not correct. What you could demand would be a real plasterer. The type of craftsman that can make any wall look smooth.

Looks like whomever did the work is going to learn a lot on this job.

You might call a few real tapers over for their opinion and cost to fix it. You may have to pay them for their time - but, that would give you far better leverage with the original guy - perhaps you could suggest he hire one of them to do the job?


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

I've said it hundreds of times and I'll say it again: Drywall sucks! On a typical drywall job only the joints and fasteners get covered with compound, usually poorly as in this case.
With plaster the entire surface gets covered. The whole ceiling would have an even layer of plaster which is much smoother and much harder than joint compound.
I'd let him skim coat it. And next time you have something built or remodeled find yourself a plasterer instead of a drywaller.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Is it just the angle of the light, or are seams only visible in one direction? I don't see any perpendicular seams.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

It's normal for a less than stellar finish job. If it weren't for the window it might of slid by but the added light makes it more noticeable. I'd have him rework those joints [slim coating will work also]


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Use a 10 foot light weight metal straight edge & you will see where the problem is than dot the low areas with mud or make a screed every six feet to use as a reference for a smooth ceiling. Than skim coat when skimming use a 8 foot rod between screeds 7 than a feather edger & you will get a level 5 or better finish. If you use the correct materials you won't have to sand the final coat.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

That is a very poor finish job , that has nothing to do with the light source. The joints are so humped up that skimming is the only way to fix it. Incidentally, the wierd colors of the joints is a phenomenon called photographing. It's caused by improper paint application. I'm guessing they didn't use primer 1st, or there is 2 or 3 very thin coats of paint. 

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## Mark2020 (Nov 20, 2018)

jsasso said:


> The builder says this is due to the large bay window and that this is normal. But he has offered to skim coat the entire ceiling. Before I go that far, I am hoping to find out if this is normal results.


I'd let him fix it before you make any decisions.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

No builder in his right mind would offer a 1,000- 2,000 option as a alternative to something that was normal. He must be good enough person to offer the remediation on his own volition. For that, you can forgive the dodge about the bay window.

In the Midwest slick finish used to be standard practice--walls and ceilings. Consider your average mall, lots of light, lots of huge open space - smooth ceilings. Granted, those are usually high ceilings. The point is ; if you understand the craft, you can finish flat ceilings, regardless of the light sources, or paint sheens. I have no problem finishing big ceilings with semi gloss paint, because I've done it for years. Drywall contractors have to know how to make a surface look flat, that's thier stupid job. But it seems like these days, that's asking too much. 

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## wolf3312 (Nov 6, 2018)

Only a professional should be able to tell you where the seams are. the light source is an excuse for a poor finish.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Exactly! 

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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Skim coat is not the solution to this problem. He's not a drywall expert.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

jeffnc said:


> Skim coat is not the solution to this problem. He's not a drywall expert.


WHY is skim coating NOT a good solution ??
The drywall expert is not the only one that can SKIM coat


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm a GC... not a drywaller... and I know the value of a good finisher.

But, I don't understand how a skim coating would realistically taper out those joint lines.

Wouldn't skim coating basically just put the same thickness evenely accross everything.... might mitigate/taper the joint a little.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> I'm a GC... not a drywaller... and I know the value of a good finisher.
> 
> But, I don't understand how a skim coating would realistically taper out those joint lines.
> 
> Wouldn't skim coating basically just put the same thickness evenely accross everything.... might mitigate/taper the joint a little.



Go back to post # 7 reference the 10 foot straight edge. Get the high area & use as a bench mark to make the ceiling flat. Than set the screeds @ 7 feet & use an 8 foot rod to make the fill area the same as the screeds. Than skim with a smooth finish coat , 1200 Sq. / Ft. 3 days max time to complete no sanding required & NO demo required. Just need to use the correct repair materials I done this type repair many times in the last 40 years.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

You are correct. As I had said in my first response, the seams need to be reworked and feathered out to at least 12-15" (minimum). Only then would you do a skim coat over the whole thing to give it all the same sheen.

I'm no expert drywaller by any means, but I've done a lot of it and always help out friends and family that have no confidence to do it themselves. It probably helps that I'm very picky, but I'm also not fast at it so that doesn't help and I'd never make any money if it were my job and I were that picky.

That being said, after seeing the first photos and giving my first answer, I went around to every room in my house and inspected every ceiling I've redone and every joint I've taped, and I've never had such poor results on seams, ceiling or walls. The only issues that bug me that I haven't had a chance to do anything about yet are short vertical seams above windows that always want to crack. I don't know why they put the seams there in our house (BOCA modular).

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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

When I skim a wall or ceiling like this, I always level out the bad joints 1st. Then I put a tight skim to fill in the texture. Then I do a real skim coat to finish. 

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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Hey bad, the cracks above the windows, how close to the edges are they? 

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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

t.carpenter00 said:


> Hey bad, the cracks above the windows, how close to the edges are they?
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


The cracks are perfectly straight lines right on the seams. Joint tape won't even keep it pulled together. I've cut a taper on either side with a utility knife and screwed the panels to the studs again on each side but there's enough movement in the walls that they open up again after my repairs. I figure one of these days I'll do a proper fixed and put new pieces in and have seams elsewhere.

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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

ClarenceBauer said:


> Go back to post # 7 reference the 10 foot straight edge. Get the high area & use as a bench mark to make the ceiling flat. Than set the screeds @ 7 feet & use an 8 foot rod to make the fill area the same as the screeds. Than skim with a smooth finish coat , 1200 Sq. / Ft. 3 days max time to complete no sanding required & NO demo required. Just need to use the correct repair materials I done this type repair many times in the last 40 years.


Clarence thanks.... You Sir.... obviously do a superb skim coating that I have never seen done.

Skim jobs I've seen are basically done with a maybe an 18-20 blade, and not necesarilly paying attention to tapering anything.


I'd love to see a video of your method... because while you explain it theoretically very well... it is still difficult for me to see in practice.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The skim coat would need to be applied in a manner that levels it all out, most would be done with a knife but there would still be some sanding.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ClarenceBauer said:


> WHY is skim coating NOT a good solution ??
> The drywall expert is not the only one that can SKIM coat



Maybe my reply was misleading. I'm not saying skim coating is not a good solution because the builder is not an expert drywaller. I'm saying two different things.

First, skim coating is not a good solution here regardless of the skills of the worker.

Second, the builder is not a drywall expert because he doesn't seem to know this.


Skim coating is not a good solution because the vast majority of the surface doesn't need anything at all. Only the seams need work. And skim coating is not enough to fix the seams. Skim coating is more suited to walls that need a perfectly smooth finish, even to the extent that they don't want the texture of the drywall paper to show. Or when the walls have slight imperfections all over them, such as when wallpaper has been removed, for example.


IMO, sheen issues related to absorbency should be fixed with the proper primer or paint coatings, not with skim coating. It's far easier to do it that way. Note that even if the entire surface were skim coated, even though the sheen might come out more consistent now, it's not going to be the proper sheen as the paint manufacturer intended. Only correct priming or multiple coats of the same paint will do that. And by the time you do that, different absorbencies of the surface area will no longer matter.


I've done skim coating many times, but only when I think it's worth the effort. I use a paint roller for application (slightly thinned compound) and large squeegee instead of taping knives, for what it's worth.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Clarence thanks.... You Sir.... obviously do a superb skim coating that I have never seen done.
> 
> Skim jobs I've seen are basically done with a maybe an 18-20 blade, and not necesarilly paying attention to tapering anything.
> 
> ...



I have never done a Video but will try to explain it better. The 10 foot straightedge would be used to indicate were the low areas are than mud would be used to fill in the low area say 1 inch wide & 4 INCHES LONG THIS WOULD BE COMPLETED FOR THE ENTIRE CEILING SURFASE THAN THE SCREEDS WOULD BE USED AS A REFERENCE TO BASE THE CEILING. when DRY A FINISH COAT IS APPLIED AND TROWEL SMOOTH no sanding REQUIRED.

Another option & maybe easer for a DIYer pull a very tight string line from North end to South end than using a 3/4 inch blocks of wood under each end of the line.
Now with another 3/4 inch block soaked in water so as fresh mud will not stick to it apply mud to ceiling in an area of say 1 inch Sq. and use wood block to screed the mud until wood block just misses the string line by 1/16 inch repeat for length of string every 7 feet. When complete & dots have dried Go East to West & fill in between dots using a 8 foot rod or the 10 foot straightedge to make a complete screed when dry fill in area between the screeds. See if you can pull up this site it will help www.adrianwest.org 
& look for Plumb Dots & Screeds he is leaving the blocks in but you can't do that for a skim coat only. Tools you should use but not required Feather Edger , Darby & Joint Rods. If you can find this book Plastering Skills by Van Den Branden / Hartsell on page 51 you will find how to plumb a wall use the same idea and apply it to the ceiling. I have many pictures of plaster repairs from the Unitarine Church in Charleston, SC. the ceiling is used in the web site for Master of Plaster. Also on the Master of Plaster site you will be able to find photos of Dock Street Theater , Have repaired the very large grand ceiling in Randolph Hall Charleston, SC dated 1803 no cold joints , no joints showing , Gibbs Museum grand hall ceiling smooth no lines or joints.

If someone on this site would like photo's of the Unitarian church I will have one of the children put them on a thumb drive and mail them to some ones Business address or if Cricket ill except them by mail you can do as you please with them. There maybe as many as 75 in all phases of repair.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Jeff, the reason a good skim coat is the proper solution has just as much to do with fixing the texture as it does the joints.
Because, were you to refinish those joints to make them look flat then you would be trying to patch in whole lines of texture across a very big ceiling. So in addition to evening out the entire surface for paint, you are also evening out the entire surface so that when you apply a texture to it it will all be consistent.

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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

http://www.adrianwest.org/ajw/plastering/dots.html
Try this procedure it is for a wall but you can tweek to work on the ceiling just eliminate the blocks used a screeds & use mud.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

t.carpenter00 said:


> Jeff, the reason a good skim coat is the proper solution has just as much to do with fixing the texture as it does the joints.
> Because, were you to refinish those joints to make them look flat then you would be trying to patch in whole lines of texture across a very big ceiling. So in addition to evening out the entire surface for paint, you are also evening out the entire surface so that when you apply a texture to it it will all be consistent.



A final skim coat is fine, but not by itself.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

jeffnc said:


> A final skim coat is fine, but not by itself.




Depends on what material is used for the skim coating.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

You guys are so wayabove my head ... but of course you are working on the ceiling.:wink2:

I say that complimentary.:smile:


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

We've worked on a lot of square miles of ceiling. Unfortunately... 

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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

t.carpenter00 said:


> We've worked on a lot of square miles of ceiling. Unfortunately...
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


So, you're saying business is looking up?


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