# Starter fluid on chain saw?



## John Smith_inFL (Jun 15, 2018)

do you use NON-ethanol gas ?
you didn't mention if you used fresh gas or not.
storing any gas motor for over a month should have
the fuel tank completely empty.
ethanol poisoning is keeping the small engine repair people
in business !!

.

.


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## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

That's all I use in my small engines. I have to drive the next county over and it only available in premium 

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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

1. do you have spark?
2. do you have fuel supply to plug?
3. was plug fouled with petrol?
4. is exhaust fouled with carbon build up?
Otherwise, after cold storage, prime the bulb, put switch into start, hold trigger full throttle and start pulling on cord non stop. After 15-20 pulls, it should start waking up and then fire.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

ukrkoz said:


> 1. do you have spark?
> 2. do you have fuel supply to plug?
> 3. was plug fouled with petrol?
> 4. is exhaust fouled with carbon build up?
> Otherwise, after cold storage, prime the bulb, put switch into start, hold trigger full throttle and start pulling on cord non stop. After 15-20 pulls, it should start waking up and then fire.


Yes, UK, I have spark (mentioned it in my post). Plug looked decent, for a 2 cycle engine. So, I assume the spark I saw is a good thing. Im thinking it should ignite pet ether. 

Dont know about the exhaust if it is fouled up. Good tip on pulling 20 times, if my arm can do it. I will try it. But why doesnt it ignite with starter fluid? That stuff is soooo flammable. 

Should I remove the muffler to examine for exhaust foul up? gas is fresh, BTW.......


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Johnny_inFL said:


> do you use NON-ethanol gas ?
> you didn't mention if you used fresh gas or not.
> storing any gas motor for over a month should have
> the fuel tank completely empty.
> ...


Thanks, Johnny, but I have never used non ethanol gas (not to mention it is basically unavailable). 20 years it ran well. I have no reason to suspect ethanol as the culprit. I also use regular (ethanol) gas in my sit down, and push mower. push mower is 25 years old.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jun 15, 2018)

another thing to do is remove the foam air filter so it can breathe in
nice fresh air. check the priming bulb for cracks.
ether starting fluid should at least give a starting cough if you have spark.
old gas sitting for 18 months can definitely gum up the system.
last resort is a trip to the shop.
I paid $65.00 on two occasions just to be told that my 50cc Poulan saw
does not like ethanol or old gas during storage. (lesson learned).
please post a follow up after you get it going.
hope you get it figured out soon. 

.

.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

A engine likes about a 14 to 1 air fuel ratio. How in hell does a person expect to even come close to that ratio with a aerosol can squirting directly into the throat of the carb? Then we can discuss 2 cycle and spark plugs. It doesn't get any worse than that, even with 2,000 HP engines.


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

What make/model is your chainsaw?
Is it firing at all? With or without filter in place? 
How about compression? The engine shouldn't spin easy when you pull the cord. You should feel the force of the piston kicking back when you pull. (Unless you have a compression release button of course)
If you can find a compression tester, it should be well over 110psi


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

SeniorSitizen said:


> A engine likes about a 14 to 1 air fuel ratio. How in hell does a person expect to even come close to that ratio with a aerosol can squirting directly into the throat of the carb? Then we can discuss 2 cycle and spark plugs. It doesn't get any worse than that, even with 2,000 HP engines.


The point of starting fluid (Ether) is that is will ignite over a very wide range of air/fuel ratios. Its only purpose is to cause the engine to fire a few times to boost rpm above what you can do by pulling. If its flooded, it may blow the excess fuel through. If too lean, it will create more vacuum to draw fuel from the carb.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Hey, no need to go offended.
This:
_checked the spark in a dark room for spark._
Does not say "I have good spark". Right, mate?
I go through very similar situations literally every spring, after my Stihl combi motor was stowed in cold for several months.
Everything sort of gets tired, so to speak.
Basically, and it may be more than 20 pulls or less, you start your engine as if it is flooded with petrol. Guy I learned it from he literally poured petrol into combustion chamber, than screwed plug in and flood started it with that technique. I used it thereafter on my Stihl - mine tends to go flooded after some use, then you turn it off - and it refuses to start on hot - and it worked flawlessly. Just needs good body to unit position. Good shoulder exercise.
Bulb also needs to be primed to pretty much solid resistance. Neighbor has acting up Stihl chain saw, it behaves just like my combi unit - same works on his. 

Once you get them going, they work pretty much fine for the rest of the season. 

The way i start mine is I prime bulb to hard feel, set it all so that I am comfy positioned and unit is well secured - I use top of my garden hose storage, solid plastic cover and does not make me bend over low, put choke into choke position, squeeze and hold trigger to let air in - and give it as fast a pull as I can. Usually, fires right away, so I switch to open throttle immediately, or it will stall. If you were to try to start with trigger not squeezed, I think it floods right away. 

Another thing you cna do is to get propane torch, pull plug out, hold it with pliers and burn tips hot white. Screw it in hot and start right away. 

Now I am out of cold starting tricks. 

As of exhaust.. simply spray carb and choke cleaner into exhaust tip few times. If you have a 90 degree shield covering tip, remove it so that you spray right into it. My first Stihl was notorious about having that fouled. But then I learned to ALWAYS run it on highest rpm, or it will clog exhaust. Any tech will tell you same - you must run them full trigger all the time.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If you were to try to start with trigger not squeezed, I think it floods right away. 

[/QUOTE]
If it has a constant speed governor, doing a little research I believe you'll find that - *when cranking* - the throttle is wide open whether we touch the trigger or not.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

chiraldude said:


> What make/model is your chainsaw?
> Is it firing at all? With or without filter in place?
> How about compression? The engine shouldn't spin easy when you pull the cord. You should feel the force of the piston kicking back when you pull. (Unless you have a compression release button of course)
> If you can find a compression tester, it should be well over 110psi


Chiral, model 2150 (posted in my 1st post). 21 years old. But, good points- I removed the old air filter, so starting with starter fluid with no filter. As far as compression, only thing I could do it place my index finger over spark plug hole and pull the cord. I felt some pressure, but of course, no guage to measure. 

Think my car's compression tested will fit that spark plug thread?? Im going to try........


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

SeniorSitizen said:


> A engine likes about a 14 to 1 air fuel ratio. How in hell does a person expect to even come close to that ratio with a aerosol can squirting directly into the throat of the carb? Then we can discuss 2 cycle and spark plugs. It doesn't get any worse than that, even with 2,000 HP engines.


Just for the record,Senior, my ratio is supposed to be 40:1. Still, Im using starter fluid to start/test.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Bulb is new.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> Just for the record,Senior, my ratio is supposed to be 40:1. *Still, Im using starter fluid to start/test*.


Ayuh,..... You should be usin' mixed gas,.....

Startin' fluid washes _All the oil residue from the bearings_ in a 2-stroke motor,.....
It can, 'n will lean to catastrophic motor failure,.....

I think yer not gettin' gas into the motor,.....
Try, 'n see if you can intentionally flood it with the choke,.....


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

ukrkoz said:


> Hey, no need to go offended.
> This:
> _checked the spark in a dark room for spark._
> Does not say "I have good spark". Right, mate?
> ...


UK, i saw spark in the dark, thats all I can say. I would think it would be enough for highly flammable ether. Who knows....

Good tips on starting. Maybe I will fill with gas and try again, with throttle held open, as you say, but confused- when you say:

squeeze and hold trigger to let air in - and give it as fast a pull as I can. Usually, fires right away, so I switch to open throttle immediately, or it will stall

isnt trigger the throttle (built into the handle) one squeezes to increase rpm's? Then, you say "switch to open throttle"- arent you already on open throttle??


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,..... You should be usin' mixed gas,.....
> 
> Startin' fluid washes _All the oil residue from the bearings_ in a 2-stroke motor,.....
> It can, 'n will lean to catastrophic motor failure,.....
> ...


Thanks, Bond, I see your point on friction on engine, but I would not continue to run engine with ether, just wanted to see if it would start meaning, start, run for 2-3 seconds, and it will of course die without continued spraying of starter fluid. Im not even getting that. Make sense, Bond?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Back from the garage, phew! Tried some of the tips above- double checked for spark, opened up exhaust muffler and no gunk in exhaust port. Tried again with starter fluid, nothing. Filled with gas, pumped bulb til hard, held throttle open, as Uk said, nothing happened. tried with choke off, then choke on. Still nothing. Back hurts now. 

Heres 2 questions: 1)assuming the carb diaphragm is bad, will that alone prevent a start/fire? 
2) Assuming the tiny tubes are clogged, will that prevent a start/fire? (with fluid, aint I bypassing the tubes ?)

I may be looking at buying a rebuild kit, oh well........


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> Filled with gas, pumped bulb til hard, held throttle open, as Uk said, nothing happened. tried with choke off, then choke on. Still nothing. Back hurts now.


Ayuh,..... After all that,.... Was the spark plug Wet,..?? or Dry,..??


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,..... After all that,.... Was the spark plug Wet,..?? or Dry,..??



I noticed that- the plug was wet. So, should mean that the fuel (or starter fluid, as I tried it with both) IS getting into the cylinder chamber. Right?


I am totally perplexed at how there could be no start with a good spark and highly flammable fluid......sheesh. Sorry, people, tried to follow up on most of your advice. I refuse to give up. 



Heck, a new carb is only $13........


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Have you got compression?


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

At least verify there is some compression before throwing parts at it. You can get a sense of the compression by doing a half hearted pull. I think you know what I mean? Like when you are getting tired trying to start it and you don't pull with your full strength and the cord gets yanked out of your hand. That's the compression pushing back. 
I've had a couple of Poulan saws break a piston ring and it's fairly obvious when you have no compression. 
.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

papereater said:


> Just for the record,Senior, my ratio is supposed to be 40:1. Still, Im using starter fluid to start/test.


Two different subjects, but what ratio is your starter fluid. I say just keep on squirting.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Does it have a petcock, and is it turned to the on position.?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Have you got compression?


Yes, Neal. At least, as I explained above, from placing finger over spark plug hole, and cranking the rope, I felt pressure. I also felt a good resistance upon cranking engine. I would think it would be enough to start(?).


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

chiraldude said:


> At least verify there is some compression before throwing parts at it. You can get a sense of the compression by doing a half hearted pull. I think you know what I mean? Like when you are getting tired trying to start it and you don't pull with your full strength and the cord gets yanked out of your hand. That's the compression pushing back.
> I've had a couple of Poulan saws break a piston ring and it's fairly obvious when you have no compression.
> .


Exactly, chiral. To the best of my observation that's what I am getting when I pulll. . That must be a good sign.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Two different subjects, but what ratio is your starter fluid. I say just keep on squirting.


Didnt know one has to mix 2 cycle oil with starter fluid. Fluid comes in spray can. Doesnt make sense to me, Senior. But yes, I have "keept on squirting" into that cylinder/carb hole. Only thing is how many gallons should one squirt??


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

ron45 said:


> Does it have a petcock, and is it turned to the on position.?


No such thing, bu thanks for asking. If it did, it never made any difference in 21 years......


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Are you following the Poulan start procedure? The Poulan that a cousin of mine bought about 8 years ago was very sensitive to following their starting procedure.

Your ‘yes I had compression with finger over hole’ isn’t an accurate compression test. For example, if I told you you need 110psi to start, do you think you can tell the difference between 90psi and 110 psi ? 
Either one of those is going to blow air past your finger.

Get hold of a compression gauge and do an accurate test.
Or take it to a shop and have them test it.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Oso954 said:


> Are you following the Poulan start procedure? The Poulan that a cousin of mine bought about 8 years ago was very sensitive to following their starting procedure.
> 
> Your ‘yes I had compression with finger over hole’ isn’t an accurate compression test. For example, if I told you you need 110psi to start, do you think you can tell the difference between 90psi and 110 psi ?
> Either one of those is going to blow air past your finger.
> ...


I believe you mentioned that before, Os (without looking at all above posts). You may be on the right track 100%. If not enough comp, no start, with any flammable liquid. I will look into this asap, and advise. It could take a while. 

Thaks for following up to impress this point.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, People, I tried to screw in my compression tester (for cars) into the chainsaw plug hole CAREFULLY, and it wouldnt go in. So I matched up the threads of the plug right next to those of the tester threads and they seem to be same pitch(?). Then I put a caliper on the diameter of the plug and it was about a hair bigger than that of the tester, figurd that at least it wasnt smaller. I mean A HAIR. 

It still wont screw in nicely. Didnt/will not force it. Maybe I need some kind of adapter, if there is such a thing? I couldnt find one anywhere. If anyone know of such a think please advise.....Otherwise, I will consider buying a chain saw compression tester which I could even find as well. 

Thanks.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/en/product/ADAPTER-SPARK-PLUG-10MM/p/LNCMVA5501


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## CFCPWN (Feb 26, 2019)

SeniorSitizen said:


> If you were to try to start with trigger not squeezed, I think it floods right away.


If it has a constant speed governor, doing a little research I believe you'll find that - *when cranking* - the throttle is wide open whether we touch the trigger or not.[/QUOTE]Thought I was pretty funny you mention this when I first started using a chainsaw I always thought you had to squeeze the trigger down while pulling it to start until my arm fell off then realized after a short embarrassing moment no need to squeeze the trigger!!!!

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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

papereater said:


> If anyone know of such a think please advise.....Otherwise, I will consider buying a chain saw compression tester which I could even find as well.
> Thanks.


Can you find a local repair shop in your area? I'm sure they would do a compression check for you. Assuming you don't mind them trying to talk you into buying a new saw:smile:


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

My wife's old 018c Stihl wouldn't start; tried all the things mentioned above and no dice.

Took the bar and chain off, took the rope starter off, and put a high-speed drill on the large nut there. Think I had to run the drill in reverse.

It took about 3 minutes of that in order to get it to cough and another 3 minutes of that to get it to run without the drill.

Moral of the story: save your arm and use a drill. Be very careful since the starter is off the saw and the spinning cooling fins can trash your fingers/hand.

You can also just take the starter out, cut a hole in the cover and slip the drill/socket through the hole (much safer). Use a cordless drill when away from the house.

There's some videos on YouTube about it, too.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

RockyMtBeerMan said:


> Took the bar and chain off, took the rope starter off, and put a high-speed drill on the large nut there. Think I had to run the drill in reverse.
> 
> It took about 3 minutes of that in order to get it to cough and another 3 minutes of that to get it to run without the drill.


So through about 6 minutes of compression strokes @ about 2°F / lb. of compression all that aluminum finally warmed enough to run.:vs_cool:


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

This would also be useful for dealing with other small engines such as a lawnmower.

I did this once for a snowblower. The recoil mechanism fell apart and, instead of trying to replace it, I removed it then drilled a hole in the cover and rigged up a socket to chuck up in my drill. All of a sudden my snow blower had electric start!


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## Deck (Apr 25, 2008)

how old is the spark plug? change it anyway. every spark plug i've had go bad didn't just die it kind of slowly tapered off. you may see a spark but maybe it's not enough.


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## Let it Snow (Feb 23, 2019)

Remove the Spark Arrestor and clean it. The Spark Arrestor is a metal screen near the muffler. You may need to remove the muffler to find it. Spark Arrestors are meant to eliminate sparks. The government requires them to protect a dry forrest. Here in PA., we get so much rain I just remove them. 
A clogged Spark Arrestor blocks the exhaust and it will not start.

It may not have a Spark Arrestor, since your are in the UK but it's worth looking at. Try removing the muffler and see if it helps.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Sorry for delay in replying- just got back into town. Thanks for all the advice. I still did not give up, and the adapter from Grainger looks like a good fit. Anyway, I will call a shop first and ask them if they could do the comp test.


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## Let it Snow (Feb 23, 2019)

papereater said:


> Sorry for delay in replying- just got back into town. Thanks for all the advice. I still did not give up, and the adapter from Grainger looks like a good fit. Anyway, I will call a shop first and ask them if they could do the comp test.


Have you removed the spark arrestor?


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

Equally likely is that there is a problem with the spark and a bad plug or capacitor could be at fault. If the plug wire when off the plug does not provide a spark to the plug then the problem is not with the fuel supply.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, took me a looong while to chase down some of the tips mentioned above, so heres where Im at: Got a new carb, shop tested for comp and said it was acceptable, Then I pushed primer bulb say, 2-3 times, and it got hard/stiff, so I stopped. Then I opened the venturi, and pulled cord.

It started right up! It reached a very high rpm quickly, then lasted for about 2 seconds. then died. No more luck starting it. This was after I took the carb apart, sprayed with cleaner, mounted it all up again, then started it. 

I havent given up yet.


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## Let it Snow (Feb 23, 2019)

papereater said:


> OK, took me a looong while to chase down some of the tips mentioned above, so heres where Im at: Got a new carb, shop tested for comp and said it was acceptable, Then I pushed primer bulb say, 2-3 times, and it got hard/stiff, so I stopped. Then I opened the venturi, and pulled cord.
> 
> It started right up! It reached a very high rpm quickly, then lasted for about 2 seconds. then died. No more luck starting it. This was after I took the carb apart, sprayed with cleaner, mounted it all up again, then started it.
> 
> I havent given up yet.


Have you removed the Spark Arrestor?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Let it Snow said:


> Have you removed the Spark Arrestor?


To the best of my ability, it looked like my poulan does not have one. I learned that some chainsaws have them, some dont. I removed the muffler components, none was there. 

Maybe Im still mistaken, Snow, could I start it without the muffler components and see? I can wear ear muffs/protectors........


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## Let it Snow (Feb 23, 2019)

papereater said:


> To the best of my ability, it looked like my poulan does not have one. I learned that some chainsaws have them, some dont. I removed the muffler components, none was there.
> 
> Maybe Im still mistaken, Snow, could I start it without the muffler components and see? I can wear ear muffs/protectors........


You can attempt to start without the muffler, of course it's going to be loud. Keep it away from any open gas cans it case it throws a spark. There's a screen inside the muffler called a spark screen. It could be clogged shut. It's worth a try.


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## Deck (Apr 25, 2008)

First make sure it's shut off and try turning the chain by hand and see if it turns. If you used too much starter fluid you might have seized it. If it turns try starting it by pressing the throttle trigger while you pull.

Since you have a new carb you may need to adjust it. Usually it comes lean. I have a Poulan and melted my piston once by running it at default carb settings. Chainsaws aren't supposed to scream they're supposed to kind of worble.

Also I hope you remembered to mix in the oil into the gas because if you run it straight gas that can also kill it.

And here's a post from someone with your model talking of crumbling fuel lines because the chainsaw is so old. So check for cracks.
https://www.doityourself.com/forum/...86275-poulan-chainsaw-fuel-line-disaster.html

Keep us updated


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Let it Snow said:


> You can attempt to start without the muffler, of course it's going to be loud. Keep it away from any open gas cans it case it throws a spark. There's a screen inside the muffler called a spark screen. It could be clogged shut. It's worth a try.


removed the muffler, and a plate behind it. No screen that I could see. Pulled and pulled cord, no start. Man, that muffler was leaking with oily gunk. Not sure it it's the residue from all those pulls.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

I found the spark screen!! Washing out the filthy muffler, it popped out! Not sure if it matters at this point. Still no start. 

But good idea to clean it now. Why removing it to help start it is a mystery to me. How would that help?


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## Let it Snow (Feb 23, 2019)

papereater said:


> I found the spark screen!! Washing out the filthy muffler, it popped out! Not sure if it matters at this point. Still no start.
> 
> But good idea to clean it now. Why removing it to help start it is a mystery to me. How would that help?


Spark Arrestors in newer 2 cycle engines are required by the federal government to protect forests from sparks and possible fires.
The screen clogs up and restricts or completely blocks air flow during the exhaust stroke. Once that happens, the engine will not run, or runs at a very low speed.
I've fixed many 2 cycle engines, from chainsaws and hedge trimmers to dirt bikes by simply cleaning or removing the screen.


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