# leaning garage wall and sagging roof line.



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Post a picture of the inside corners and what your calling trusses.


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

Joe,

Here you go. two pictures of the front corners and more of the ceiling.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Is the rafter on the other side sagged?
Is the wall on the other side leaning the same way?


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

Mae,

the opposite wall is not leaning. the horizontal joist in the ceiling is bowed downward. I haven't checked the rafters. I'll go get some string and check them out.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Is that just a 2 X 4 ridge beam?
Looks like someone messed up when building the outside corners, and also did not have 2, plates along the back wall to tie the 2, walls together.
One should have over laped the other.
How is it fastened to the foundation?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

The bowing of the rafters would slightly and very slightly pull the wall in not out.
Measure along the top plate and bottom plate and the front and back, if the top is longer then the bottom then it was built this way.

If it is out only in the middle and not at the corners the wall is bowed out on the top.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

mae-ling said:


> The bowing of the rafters would slightly and very slightly pull the wall in not out.


Not necessary with the ridge dropping too.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I would have thought if the ridge sagged it would likly have pushed out both walls at the top.

You have so many bad things going on I would think it would be best to have someone come on site to look it over.
It may well be as pointed out it was just built that way by someone that had no clue. A simple step like pulling a string to align the top plate before attaching the trusses can throw off the whole wall.


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## oodssoo (Jul 16, 2012)

jrb619 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've got a garage wall that is starting to lean on one side and it's roof line is starting to sag. The lumber is in good shape, no termites or excessive weather damage. I'd like to put it in check and rectify the situation if possible and extend the life of the structure. Do you have any ideas as to what I can do to shore it up?
> 
> ...


 
JRB,

Not a big deal if the problem is rectified now than later. Other than inadequate framing opportunities (i.e. 2x4 ridge board and incorrect corners), I believe settlement (i.e. foundation and framing) had some contribution to the existing problem.

What I would do if I were you immediately are simply in the followings:

1) Measure the floor span (bottom plate to bottom plate) left to right.
2) Measure the top span (top plate to top plate) left to right.
3) Identify whether these two dimensions are squared.
4) Double check that the bottom plates are completely resting on the concrete foundation.
5) Check for vertical level of the corners to make sure all four corners are straight up.

Once you have the above mentioned completed, please transcribe the data by incorporating them into your sketch. This will then allow me to help you on the next approach. Well, of course, everyone else would then be able to chime in... 

Ps. Do you know who built this shed/storage building? (I am hoping it isn't you...)


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Get us a picture of the complete truss----that truss looks like it's the wrong design----the bottom chord is not resting on the top of the wall----I wonder if they used trusses with extra long tails and used the tails as the supporting place for the truss instead of the bottom chord---

I'm not an expert in truss work--so take thhis one as a guess----


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## pls8xx (May 2, 2009)

Look at how the bottom chord of the truss is connected to the lower end of the rafter. (not shown in any of your photos). A failure of the connection at that point would produce outward bowed walls and the center of the bottom chord would carry the center weight of the roof, bowing down.


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Is that just a 2 X 4 ridge beam?
> Looks like someone messed up when building the outside corners, and also did not have 2, plates along the back wall to tie the 2, walls together.
> One should have over laped the other.
> How is it fastened to the foundation?


All rafters, joists and ridge beam are 2X6s. It fastened to the footing with bolts.


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

oodssoo said:


> JRB,
> 
> Not a big deal if the problem is rectified now than later. Other than inadequate framing opportunities (i.e. 2x4 ridge board and incorrect corners), I believe settlement (i.e. foundation and framing) had some contribution to the existing problem.
> 
> ...


here you go sir. these measurements are in the drawing too.

floor span is consistently 23' 6"
top span varies from 23' 7 1/2" near the front and back. 23' 8 1/2" near the center of the garage. 

as to whether or not they are square, I think it is based on the lean of the front garage corners (one side of the corner is vertical, the other side is leaning).

image below for clarification


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## oodssoo (Jul 16, 2012)

This is not truss system... It is stick frame instead. Two very different designs. Truss is of course usually stronger.

JBR,

What your diagram shows confirms my prediction...

Basically, you need to pull in your top span to match the bottom span. Easy said than done - of course.

You will need to support from the outside first to ensure the walls don't collapse on you.

Then you need to work on bring in the top span starting the middle. The top middle span is 2 inches wider! (Probably run some 2x6s to connect the middle of the top bands by laying them flat to prevent future bowing).

Quite honestly speaking, the roof though is "inadequate" to some extend, the main problem is really in your walls.

The structure is slowly collapsing, so my advise is for you to not wait any longer...  

All the while, bring the front corners to upright position... 

Once this is done the roof will decrease.

Depends on your own ability and degree of understanding the engineering behind this project, I would rate this project a 10/10 for difficulty. (This likely means that your siding will have to come off for you to implement the repairs).


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

oh'mike said:


> Get us a picture of the complete truss----that truss looks like it's the wrong design----the bottom chord is not resting on the top of the wall----I wonder if they used trusses with extra long tails and used the tails as the supporting place for the truss instead of the bottom chord---


oh'mike,

four of the trusses have a bottom chord that rests on the top plate. 4 more have chords half way up the rafters. The rafters without any bottom chord are exactly as you describe, the tails are resting on the top plate.


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

oh'mike said:


> Get us a picture of the complete truss----that truss looks like it's the wrong design----the bottom chord is not resting on the top of the wall----I wonder if they used trusses with extra long tails and used the tails as the supporting place for the truss instead of the bottom chord---
> 
> I'm not an expert in truss work--so take thhis one as a guess----


oh'mike & PLS,

Here are a few pix of where the rafters tie in at the top plate.


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## mikey48 (Dec 6, 2007)

Looks like the joists are 2x6 spanned about 24 feet. The span is to long and needs at least supported by a support wall or beam in the middle.


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## oodssoo (Jul 16, 2012)

jrb619 said:


> oh'mike & PLS,
> 
> Here are a few pix of where the rafters tie in at the top plate.


 
Whoa!

I don't know how I missed the fact the span is about 24ft! Even if they weren't 2x6's and they were 2x12's, 24ft will still be over-extension...

Anyway, What you could probably do to rescue the weak roof is by adding a 2x4 under the 2x6 ties. This will create a upside down T if you look from a "cut" view. Use screws about 16" apart. Additionally, you could also fill in between where there is no 2x6's with more 2x6's (at least) and 2x4's (to form upside down T). By doing this, you should off-load the roof weight onto the newly added 2x6's w/ 2x4's. You will have to jack up the sagging 2x6's first though to get it as straight as possible. This way, the 2x4's will be installed to a straight 2x6 rather.

Again, you will still have to take care of the moving walls and corners I have mentioned already... These are the legs to the "weak roof"... Yikes... You can't fix your roof, until you have straighten out your walls and corners...

After you have straighten out your walls and corners, go ahead and add these (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25e...3&langId=-1&keyword=strong+tie&storeId=10051) to the 2x6's at the top plates... to secure their position going forward and eliminate "slide out"...


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Get that door off the rafter ties, first, and any other load. The 2x4 and 1x4 "struts" or web members are helping the rafter ties, do not remove them. The 2x6 ridge board is fine, as are the collar ties, though they are only for high wind uplift to hold the rafters to the ridge board. This is not a truss system. http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_8_sec002_par018.htm 

Check the amount of nails in each rafter ties (compare to the span/snow load listed, especially the one pictured inboard of the garage door opener;* 9th chart down;* http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_8_par027.htm?bu2=undefined

The raised rafter tie takes the next chart adjustment factor below that. See where we are first, before fixing it. 

Gary


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## jrb619 (Oct 20, 2012)

*plan of attack*

Based on everyone's great comments and feedback, i'm starting to generate a plan illustrated below. Let me know what you guys think. Is this sound?

1) create anchor plate on top of leaning wall with 2X6
2) drill eye bolts to anchor plate and into cement floor and attach turnbuckle.
3) build wall or use floor jacks and a beam under sagging joists.
4) tighten turnbuckle and raise joists simultaneously until leaning wall is vertical and joists are flatter
5) add new beams across span to stop wall from leaning out again. Q: what should the dimensions of this beam be? 2X6?
6) add collar ties and/or sister-up rafters as needed. Not quite sure how many ties will be needed and where. I assume lower is better?
7) remove turnbuckle and floor jacks/wall.
8) put my cars in here????


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

jrb619 said:


> Based on everyone's great comments and feedback, i'm starting to generate a plan illustrated below. Let me know what you guys think.


I think you’re jumping the gun here. Pushing things around and throwing a few more nails in this isn’t going to “solve” anything.

In short what I’m seeing is a failed attempt at a home made truss design. Being in Wisconsin I’m sure snow load weighs heavily into this too.

I think your first step should be to hire a design professional to come onsite and evaluate your situation and hopefully come up with a plan so you can work with what you have there.

Once you have that then you can figure out how you’re going to implement it. It will be money well spent.


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

The problem is what everyone is saying, but the reason that one spot is worse is because you have that massive overhang at the end with no real tie in. That end wall has a ton of weight .


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## oodssoo (Jul 16, 2012)

jrb619 said:


> Based on everyone's great comments and feedback, i'm starting to generate a plan illustrated below. Let me know what you guys think. Is this sound?
> 
> 1) create anchor plate on top of leaning wall with 2X6
> 2) drill eye bolts to anchor plate and into cement floor and attach turnbuckle.
> ...


 
JRB,

Building a partition wall that is weight bearing is a good idea for this building. This wall does not have to be in the center, nor do you only need just one partition wall. The idea is to ease off the span from a 24' span to much less. Perhaps figure out what you want for the use in this building, then provide in your sketch your plan.

Secondly, lets say from a engineering angle of approach, once a wall or walls have been set, then the weight of the roof can therefore be transferred to the concrete floor. From this point, you can use the new wall or walls to push from upward the sagging roof - by way of forcing the ridge beam upward throughout its entirity. Further, then, you could adjust your walls with a security blanket in place knowing your roof won't fall down entirly.

Thirdly, do not forget to secure the walls from the outside for safety. Remember, these walls are important to secure as they are the lifeline to the entire building. 

Forthly, I think the a ratchet system is briliant on your part. However, this could be risky if not done right and safely. (For an example, under stress, the negative force from the pull could cause only one or two of the wall studs to move and not the entire run like what you drew in your sketch) Difficult to orchestrate that via the blog here, but perhaps you could bring your idea to us by a sketch also, and let us "approve" them... 

At any rate, no matter your approach, you will need a professional onsite to do this. For the simple fact that you will need laborer and muscles to lift, move, drag, raise, align, guide, and watch from the beginning to end. It is my observation that you are an intelligent individual, but sometimes, we could miss the most simple yet devestating things - akelius heel.

Ps. I enjoy your sketches, by the way! Keep them coming.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

This is a small garage----it might be time to remove the old roof----brace up the walls--and head to Menards for nice new trusses----and not waste time and money trying to jury rig the old sagging roof----


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

if you have a string line along the ridge and raise (jack)the ridge up to the string line and then add full length joists that go across the room and sit fully upon the top wall plates and connect to the lowest point of all the rafters where they rest on the top plate with adequate nailing and hurricane ties, you should be able to take the jack down and the ridge will stay where it is,straight. The pulley wire system will work in conjunction with/while raising the ridge. Personally, I would focus more on raising the ridge while watching the rafter to wall connection as the ridge goes up, it all could pull in by itself with no help needed or not.


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## pls8xx (May 2, 2009)

pls8xx said:


> Look at how the bottom chord of the truss is connected to the lower end of the rafter. A failure of the connection at that point would produce outward bowed walls and the center of the bottom chord would carry the center weight of the roof, bowing down.












Where the hell are the nails?

*Go back and read GBR's post (Gary).* Read it twice. Then go to the excellent links he gave. Find the appropriate data for your roof.
Pay especial attention to the nail chart near the bottom of the second link. Since you only have a ceiling joist for every other rafter, those joists carry twice the load and there is twice the force to seperate them from the rafter at the heel joint.

Then make an inspection of your framing. When you understand what is failing you will be pointed at the right fix.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

Just thinking outside the box here from what's already been said...but why couldn't you use double 2x12 LVL's with posts under and/or them and sister them to the existing 2x6's? You can park a truck on LVL's. They should be able to support your structure no problem.


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