# Lower ball joint question



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

You would know more after removal of the old one. 

A simple remedy is to order both, then return the one not needed. 

You have mentioned many times that this driver is rife with rust, so I suspect that you might need more than just ball joints, but without actually in person inspection, I cannot say either way. 

And do get those Ball joints taken care of, in March 1977, I had a lower ball joint snap at 85 mph, I skidded sideways for 100 feet, crashed into a concrete bridge abutment, broke my 68 Buick Gran Sport in half, spent 2 months in the hospital, and 2 years without a drivers license for my pain. 

Steering components are nothing to ignore when they need repaired.


ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Get the regular. If it doesn't fit, you need a control arm. Period.:vs_cool:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

That seemed strange, that they would offer a ball joint intended to go into a worn out part. Then, I read up on how much a PITA it would be to get the lower control arm off an 18 year old truck. Torsion bar suspension, torsion key and frame rust welded together, control arm rust welded to the control arm, etc.

I guess the oversize B joint is the best they could offer, short of the C arm replacement. $20 for the B joint beats $$$$$ to replace he C arm.

If the C arm is bad, I will have to pay somebody to replace it. Under the truck, on the street, no torch, no air hammer, etc. No way!


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Is the ball joint pressed in to the control arm, riveted or bolted? If it's pressed, buy the over sized.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Guap0_ said:


> Is the ball joint pressed in to the control arm, riveted or bolted? If it's pressed, buy the over sized.


It is a pressed in ball joint.

Why do you advise this? The B joint in it now is the original. Oversized are intended, I gather, is for applications where the original has been changed before.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I am probably over thinking this, but should the replacement B joint be knurled or smooth? Most of the ones on Rockauto's website are knurled.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

When in doubt go the source.
https://www.moogparts.com/


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## F250 (Feb 13, 2018)

I've NOT had good success with Moog in recent years, and have heard many others saying the same thing. I switched to XRF and they have been wonderful replacement units on 3 different Ford Superduty diesels I've owned. Price competitive, quick delivery, outstanding warranty, and they LAST. I've had replacement Moogs run for only a year before going bad.

http://www.xrfchassis.com/parts-balljoints.htm


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

F250 said:


> I've NOT had good success with Moog in recent years, and have heard many others saying the same thing. I switched to XRF and they have been wonderful replacement units on 3 different Ford Superduty diesels I've owned. Price competitive, quick delivery, outstanding warranty, and they LAST. I've had replacement Moogs run for only a year before going bad.
> 
> http://www.xrfchassis.com/parts-balljoints.htm


One word came to me an hour ago: Motorcraft.

I checked, and can pick one up on Amazon for $24.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Bigplanz said:


> One word came to me an hour ago: Motorcraft.
> 
> I checked, and can pick one up on Amazon for $24.


I often find N O S parts on e-bay, where a dealership has parts in the warehouse that they want to move, and willing to sell at low cost.

I picked up a case of Motorcraft oil filters a couple of years ago, at the price of 3 at my local dealer. 

Kaching.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> I often find N O S parts on e-bay, where a dealership has parts in the warehouse that they want to move, and willing to sell at low cost.
> 
> I picked up a case of Motorcraft oil filters a couple of years ago, at the price of 3 at my local dealer.
> 
> ...


When in doubt about a Ford part, just buy Motorcraft.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> It is a pressed in ball joint. Why do you advise this? The B joint in it now is the original. Oversized are intended, I gather, is for applications where the original has been changed before.


Maybe I should have asked how much bigger is the oversized ball joint first? When you get a worn control arm on a pressed ball joint, the fit isn't tight enough. It happened to me once as I was lowering the car with a bumper jack, the ball joint started to separate from the lower control arm. As someone already suggested, it might be better to have both ball joint with you & return the ball joint that you don't use. Check return polices first. 

https://www.diychatroom.com/f46/lower-ball-joint-question-642879/#


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## The Chairman (Oct 4, 2018)

First off, the oversized ball joint is for when the ball joint body is loose in the A. 



That being said, you can often buy the lower control arm WITH a ball joint for a little more than the price of a ball joint and they have the new bushings. Not always a little bit more, but it makes the job go very quickly.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Good point I forgot about that. I once bought the entire assembly but that was for an upper control arm which was much easier to replace. It's still a good idea.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

The Chairman said:


> First off, the oversized ball joint is for when the ball joint body is loose in the A.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, you can often buy the lower control arm WITH a ball joint for a little more than the price of a ball joint and they have the new bushings. Not always a little bit more, but it makes the job go very quickly.


Google search: rusted torsion bar removal.

I am on the street, in front of the house. I am going to easily remove the LCA on a truck that spent its first 16 years on Long Island. Really? Seriously?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Brainbucket said:


> Get the regular. If it doesn't fit, you need a control arm. Period.:vs_cool:


 just sayin


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## The Chairman (Oct 4, 2018)

Bigplanz said:


> Google search: rusted torsion bar removal.
> 
> I am on the street, in front of the house. I am going to easily remove the LCA on a truck that spent its first 16 years on Long Island. Really? Seriously?


If you know what you're doing, sure. A link pin, the ball joint pin, and two bolts holding the control arm to the frame. Less sweat than removing and replacing that ball joint from the arm, especially if you don't have the tool to press the ball joint out and back in. Penetrating oil and perhaps the use of a heat wrench and the job is pretty quick. I've done plenty of these both ways and I definitely prefer the whole Lower Control Arm. FWIW, if you're keeping the vehicle, I'd replace the link pins too. I was a master certified auto technician for 30 years. The last fifteen of those was with Goodyear, so I've done a lot of front end work.


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## The Chairman (Oct 4, 2018)

FWIW, link pins, like shock absorber pins are easily broken if they don't want to unscrew easily. Just bend them back and forth until they work harden and snap. The Lower Control Arm job I did was on a Sprinter that lived in the Florida Keys. I used a Ryobi impact wrench and I believe each side took about a half hour. Getting the ball joint pin out and back in was the hardest part. Don't forget to get it aligned afterwards.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Brainbucket said:


> just sayin


Motorcraft ball joint is OEM. I am going with that one. UCA bushing are toast. I am kicking around replacing those too. Biting. Off. More. Than. I. Can. Chew.

#missioncreep


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

The Chairman said:


> FWIW, link pins, like shock absorber pins are easily broken if they don't want to unscrew easily. Just bend them back and forth until they work harden and snap. The Lower Control Arm job I did was on a Sprinter that lived in the Florida Keys. I used a Ryobi impact wrench and I believe each side took about a half hour. Getting the ball joint pin out and back in was the hardest part. Don't forget to get it aligned afterwards.


I got curious about this, so I looked up the Sprinter. What they refer to as a torsion bar is what on my Navigator would be the sway bar. Yes, sway bars and sway bar linka are things I could do.

Attached is an example of the torsion bar suspension used on the Navigator. There are no coil springs on the front. Mine has two torsion bars, one on each LCA. See the pivot point on the LCA? The pivot point on the frame?

On my Navigator, both pivot points are rusted solid. It would take a huge air compressor and the biggest air hammer they make to bust them out. I have a 4 pound hammer and a two foot piece of black iron pipe.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

That's not sway bar. Look how it's attached at the ends.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Guap0_ said:


> That's not sway bar. Look how it's attached at the ends.


That (running front to back in the picture) is a torsion bar between the LCA and the frame. The torsion key is at the frame pivot point. Sway bar runs side to side, connected to each LCA with sway bar links


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

It appears to me that if that bar had to be replaced, the person doing the job would have to be sure that there is no tension on it when removing it. That's not true with a sway bar.


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## Munsters1313 (Apr 4, 2018)

I go to the dealer service department and try to find a friendly service adviser and see if they will tell you what is the most common way they do the repair and any other odd things to look for. Slip him 5 bucks if he is helpful and you will have a friend to ask more questions in the future.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Y


Guap0_ said:


> It appears to me that if that bar had to be replaced, the person doing the job would have to be sure that there is no tension on it when removing it. That's not true with a sway bar.


Correct. To remove the torsion bar you have to "unload" it. Compress the key, remove the keeper, uncompress the key and the bar is unloaded. Then you beat it out with an air hammer. A BIG air hammer. This is how you do it. My Navigator is rusted worse than this.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Munsters1313 said:


> I go to the dealer service department and try to find a friendly service adviser and see if they will tell you what is the most common way they do the repair and any other odd things to look for. Slip him 5 bucks if he is helpful and you will have a friend to ask more questions in the future.


That's what this forum is for!


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

Verify the Navigator and these are the same, I'm not real familiar with FOMOCO stuff without seeing it.

Part #1






Part #2


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mike Milam said:


> Verify the Navigator and these are the same, I'm not real familiar with FOMOCO stuff without seeing it.
> 
> Part #1
> 
> ...



That's it. I have watched those, plus several others. Probably the best one (although they are all helpful) is this one.


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## The Chairman (Oct 4, 2018)

When a car is jacked up, most of the downward pressure by a torsion bar is relieved. You might need a floor jack under the ball joint to marry the top of the ball joint to the spindle assembly. Torsion bars can complicate getting the control arm off, but I can't ever remember one needing that much effort. You won't know until you try and if you do, be very careful if you use a torch. You don't want to ruin the temper of that torsion bar by heating it.


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