# A O SMITH gas water heater problem



## Boston Plumber

Hello:

Tell me is this a closed combustion chamber or an open combustion chamber?

If it an open combustion chamber (door can be removed without tools) then it should be as easy as replacing the thermocouple in the unit. Home depot and lowes sell thermocouples.....just need to shut the gas valve to off and remove/replace the thermocouple.

If it is a closed combustion chamber (need tools to remove the door)...if I understand correctly, warranty is voided if you disturb the gas chamber and don't replace the gasket/seal at the combustion chamber door after you replace the TCO thermocouple..so if closed system, make sure to talk to your local plumbing supply house and ask them to order you a new combustion chamber gasket and may need to order the TCO thermocouple and/or pilot assembly

*Check out this website....plug in your model number and check out the information that comes up:*

http://www.hotwater.com/lit/im/r-gas.html

Can also give AO Smith a call at 1-800-527-1953 and follow the advise they offer you!!

Anyway, issue here sounds like the thermocouple is gone....should only take 30 minutes to replace once you have the right parts...

Good luck and please let us know how it goes or if have any more questions.


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## joeyuk

Thanks
Here is a pic.


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## mstplumber

Great advice Boston!


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## Boston Plumber

Hi Guys:

Thanks MP...

Hey UK....that is a closed chamber for sure. I suggest you take the model number and the serial number over to the local plumbing supply house that sells AO smith heaters and purchase the *thermocouple KIT with new combustion chamber gasket.*

After you have the kit, it should be obvious what to do next!!

Let us know how you make out!! Good luck.


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## joeyuk

After removing the pilot assembly I decided this water heater was at the end the road. I replaced it with a A O SMITH ProMax plus high efficency 50 gallon also.

I do appreciate the quick good advice given and have listed the site in my favorites so I will be sure to pop in from time to time.

Joe


PS It's Joe Yuk..... as opposed to Joey UK
:no:


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## TOPS BBQ

Boston Plumber said:


> Hi Guys:
> 
> Thanks MP...
> 
> Hey UK....that is a closed chamber for sure. I suggest you take the model number and the serial number over to the local plumbing supply house that sells AO smith heaters and purchase the *thermocouple KIT with new combustion chamber gasket.*
> 
> After you have the kit, it should be obvious what to do next!!
> 
> Let us know how you make out!! Good luck.


Hey guys, I'm having the exact same problem. Found out from my friend who installed my water heater less than two years ago that AO Smith knows of a problem with the thermocouple. It begins to develop soot on combustion area and stops from lighting. All that needs to be done is have it cleaned up. They would not cover it under warranty. It's my belief that if they know this is a problem and know how to remedy it, they should provide an improved replacement part. NOT. They want $300 for it!:furious: 

That's half the cost of the whole tank! This is an inconvience that should be remedied by a company touting its products as being top quality. Luckily for me, my buddy will do it for a beer, but there has to be others like myself that have either thought their water heater was bad and replaced the whole thing or just paid for the replacement part. That's poor customer service. A plumber will take $90 just to show up in part of town, then to do the work. A.O. Smith should make this right.

Anyone out there have similar problem?


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## handy man88

joeyuk said:


> After removing the pilot assembly I decided this water heater was at the end the road. I replaced it with a A O SMITH ProMax plus high efficency 50 gallon also.
> 
> I do appreciate the quick good advice given and have listed the site in my favorites so I will be sure to pop in from time to time.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> PS It's Joe Yuk..... as opposed to Joey UK
> :no:


Good gosh!

After only 5 years and this water heater is at the end of the road?!?!


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## Tokyojoe

I have the same problems. I have the AO Smith ProMax (not even 4 yrs old, from installation). ABout two years ago, my pilot light started going out constantly. It would heat the water and then go out. It is a seasonal thing though. Starts doing this in the Fall and quits late Spring. Summertime it works fine. Well, it is Fall and now it the pilot light won't stay lit once I let up on the push button after lighting the pilot. 

I removed the Assembly and noticed that the Thermocouple TCO was not 100% connected. A loose connection.

I called a plumber and he said I can't go buy AO Smith parts on my own anywhere except from the company. WHAT THE!? Has anyone or does anyone know if I can go to a hardware store and just replace the Pilot assembly or the Thermocouple AND TCO or am I screwed and have to go through AO Smith?


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## HandymanMick

*AO Smith sealed chamber water heater*

Newer unit is probably starving for air.
Intermitent pilot failure is the clue.
Clean air screen (plastic) on bottom of tank.
If thermocouple is bad, will not relight.


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## rabblerouser

*A.O. williams pro max*

Wow! you guys are describing my problem exactly. My 3 year old water heater won't stay lit, so I kept relighting it. Then the gas valve went out (presumably because I broke the top off from turning it off and on so much). A.O. williams replaced that, and my plumber cleaned the therocoupler. It worked for about 6 weeks or so, now it won't stay lit very long (sometimes goes out right after it heats the water, sometimes stays lit for days). 

If I get a new pilot assembly, will that fix it? Or will it eventually do it again?.....I guess thats the question I will have to answer for myself.

Do not buy one of these!


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## plumber Jim

You guys have plugged flame arrestors more than likely. you need to vacuum them out. clean the black plastic screen and while its off you need to make a vacuum attachement that will go in that hole and vacuum the flame arrestor in the center of the heater. here is a link with a picture of the flame arrestor that american water heaters and now aosmith uses. the a.o smith one is more of a ceramic one in the center.

http://www.broomfieldplumber.com/water_heater_fvir_cleaning.html


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## brunob

*relighting Promax pilot*

Hi,
Everyone who has relit the pilot on a Promax hot water heater. How'd you do it?
I can't get the burner cover off to let the excess gas escape, which the instructions insist is necessary. I'm afraid to hit the ignition without doing that first.
Also, any instructions on how to remove the air intake screen to clean it are vastly appreciated in advance.
thanks!
Bruno B


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## Yoyizit

joeyuk said:


> this water heater was at the end the road.


At 5 years you only used up 1/3rd of the average life of a gas water heater; you may have had a lemon or it has a design defect. Maybe there was a recall on this part.


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## redsky01

*AO Smith water heaters very troublesome*

We have the AO smith water heater. If I understand it right it is a closed chamber heater.

It came with the place that we bought in april 2008 and so far it has bugged us atleast 4 to 5 times....

last time some 2 months back someone from the builders side came in and changed the copper tube on the outside...the tube that helps with the thermostat I guess.....

2 weeks back trouble started again....I thought I smelled gas and put it off...
I was wrong I donot think there was any gas smell...but since then my problem started again...goes off often...

As mentioned in the instructions I turn the thermostat to PILOT and ignite the burner. wait for a minute and then increase the thermostat from pilot to required temperature...of A,B and C I usually leave it on A.
The moment I take it to C the flame stays fine for 10 to 15 seconds and then goes all whacky and goes off in a few seconds...(I can see this through the small glass window)

If after igniting the flame I do not increase the thermostat from PILOT to C then at PILOT the flame stays for hours without issue....but no hot water of course at that small a flame...

I do not think it is an issue with the air intake screen...I have tried with and without the screen...have cleaned the screen also....

we have around 30 units in our community all with the same heater...have heard all of them having issues on and off....usually the screen cleaning has helped many.....but seems like I might be running out of luck..... -

I just hate the heater......:furious:

Model No - GVR 50 100
Gas Type - natural
Item ID - 9211706006
Build Date - 8/31/2006
Ser Number - H06J067799
City of New York Dept of Bldgs MEA - 376-04-E

Any one ? any ideas other than getting someone and spending 200 to 300 $ for someone to come take a loook and guess change the whole PILOT system...

Appreciate any replies !!


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## Yoyizit

redsky01 said:


> we have around 30 units in our community all with the same heater...have heard all of them having issues on and off


Bad batch of heaters?
Impure NG in your community?
Improper installations?

Maybe you need a community class action lawsuit?

Replacing it at 3 years would be a record for the replacement age data that I have.


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## plumber Jim

Did you clean the flame arrestor that you can't see under the heater? If all you have done was clean the plastic screen that you can remove then you haven't been fixing it. In the very center of the bottom of the heater they have a ceramic disc which you need to suck all the dust out of. A.O Smith was giving out a special vacuum attachement made just for this, I have one. you can make one with pvc pipe and an elbow if needed. you have to get all that dust from the flame arrestor because it will cause the heater to not get the right air to gas mix and over heat, Which will make it go out. It is a very well known problem with your heater.


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## redsky01

*have cleaned the screen and a little inside....(not all the way to the center)*



plumber Jim said:


> Did you clean the flame arrestor that you can't see under the heater? If all you have done was clean the plastic screen that you can remove then you haven't been fixing it. In the very center of the bottom of the heater they have a ceramic disc which you need to suck all the dust out of. A.O Smith was giving out a special vacuum attachement made just for this, I have one. you can make one with pvc pipe and an elbow if needed. you have to get all that dust from the flame arrestor because it will cause the heater to not get the right air to gas mix and over heat, Which will make it go out. It is a very well known problem with your heater.


Thanks for the quick replies !

I have tried cleaning the plastic screen at the bottom....
on a different note for the 1st one year there was no plastic screen....I never knew until the first time I had issues...

I have not vaccumed all the way till the center but have put in a vaccum pipe a little through the slots at the bottom....I cut the pipe on the end of an old vaccum and that helped me in reaching inside (not all the way to the center...)

the problem with the pvc pipe reaching inside is that I have a plate with a rim on the outside bottom of the heater....so have very little clearance for putting a pipe in for cleaning.....

I am so mad at the moment....:furious:

Horrible heater ...useless company !

Plumber Jim, can you please let me know if AO smith openly accepts that there is a defect in this heater ?


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## Yoyizit

plumber Jim said:


> A.O Smith was giving out a special vacuum attachement made just for this, I have one.
> It is a very well known problem with your heater.


A design defect, and the bandaid is this vacuum gadget?
http://www.ripoffreport.com/


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## redsky01

*ripoff report ?*

hello, 

can you please let me know what is with the ripoff report ?

Thanks,


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## Yoyizit

redsky01 said:


> hello,
> 
> can you please let me know what is with the ripoff report ?
> 
> Thanks,


People who bought this heater might feel AO Smith ripped them off. 
Especially in that AO makes a special tool to lessen this problem [thereby acknowledging a design problem] rather than fix the water heater design or make some kind of customer restitution.

If this procedure is normal maintenance for this heater, I guess it should say it somewhere in the owner's manual or installation instructions.


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## mikewuzaplumber

*My '04 just started acting up*

Hey guys and gals, first off I used to be a plumber but am now working towards a career in website design. I just registered here at diy because I'm having the same problem of the pilot going out in my '04 A.O. Smith 40 gal. water heater and found this topic pretty helpful. Thanksgiving, the in-laws were over the house and we notice no hot water in the evening. Well I went down and got her fired back up and all was well...for a day or two. A few days later we had a lot of wind here in OH and the wife and I woke up to cold water. Huh, went down and got the pilot going again. Since then it's been going out pretty much every day. That is kind of scary considering that if the gas valve doesn't end up shutting off for whatever reason, gas is going to get into the room. We're in a newer community here so I suspect a lot of the houses were fitted with these things. I'm going to make some sort of extension and vacuum out the center of the heater as has been suggested. I know the screen at the bottom is nice and clean. I'll let you all know if this fixes the problem. I would think that if the thermocouple has gone bad, it would not light the pilot at all. Ya know, I got out of plumbing for a reason...


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## brewchaz

*ao smith 2008 promax*

I have a 40 gal AO smith Promax that just starting acting up today - pilot stays on but you need to turn the thermostat up above where it's been set to get the main burner to light . I've emailed AOSmith but no reply as of yet - It's frustrating when you buy what you think is a reliable brand/product. 

Any ideas on whether cleaning/vacuming will help?


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## plumber Jim

brewchaz said:


> I have a 40 gal AO smith Promax that just starting acting up today - pilot stays on but you need to turn the thermostat up above where it's been set to get the main burner to light . I've emailed AOSmith but no reply as of yet - It's frustrating when you buy what you think is a reliable brand/product.
> 
> Any ideas on whether cleaning/vacuming will help?


 
Are you saying that the water is cold and the main burner isn't going on?

If yes then, No cleaning the flame arrestor isn't the answer for that one. It would mean that the gas control valve is bad.


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## shaliesmom

*Not even a year old till febuary of 2010*

Ok My landlord baught the A.o. Smith water heater and it was fine. Then six months ago it started going out. I would light the pilot and before it would tottaly heat the water it would go out. I have learned the easy way thank goodness. YOu have to vacumm out the bottom of the water heater at least every 3 months. There is a circle behind the black little screen on the bottom. I took a water hose and taped it to my vacumm hose taped one end then cut a little whole on the top that way I could vacumm out the little round screen thing hidden right in the compartment behind the screen . Sounds confusing but if you look at this website it will show you. All you need is an atatchment or make your own and a flash light. Girls if I can do it you can too.:thumbup:


http://www.broomfieldplumber.com/water_heater_fvir_cleaning.html


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## rebar

Iv also a AO smith. Same issues after 4 years..:no:

Question. I want to pull out the burner and clean up the thermocouple and piezo ignitor which intermittently works. What should I use to clean the soot and deposits off? 

You should be able to vacuum or blow out the flame arrestor from above as well. But it looks like a piece of 1" pvc could slide under and with a elbow could be cleaned out. Tape it on to your shop vac.

Can any modifications be done to the flame arrestor to prevent all this?


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## rebar

Thanks to plumber Jim my AO smith Promax is working like new. Easy fix vacuuming the flame arrestor out unless you don't like getting on your knees with your eyeball on the floor.


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## plumber Jim

rebar said:


> Thanks to plumber Jim my AO smith Promax is working like new. Easy fix vacuuming the flame arrestor out unless you don't like getting on your knees with your eyeball on the floor.


Glad to hear it!


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## spark plug

joeyuk said:


> After removing the pilot assembly I decided this water heater was at the end the road. I replaced it with a A O SMITH ProMax plus high efficency 50 gallon also.
> 
> I do appreciate the quick good advice given and have listed the site in my favorites so I will be sure to pop in from time to time.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> PS It's Joe Yuk..... as opposed to Joey UK
> :no:


It's all a matter of spacing! (Joe Yuk vs. Joey UK)


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## Teman24

I'm a military graphics illustrator by trade but a reverse engineer by nature. in 2007 I and my wife brought a town house that was installed with a new AO Smith 40 gallon natural gas water heater that began having pilot blow out issues in the first year due to constant high winds. On advice of the warranty contractor for the area to remove the black screen in front, things worked great till the next year when we had our cyclic return of high winds. On our third year the pilot began blowing out on a regular basis with out the winds and of course our warranty was up for the home by then. This prompted me to do some research into the burner assembly of my own since being a soldier on a limited budget warrants me to fix broken appliances myself instead of replacing them. What I've found through web and trial and error research is the pilot is controlled by, not just, your thermocouple but by a self resetting temperature sensor poorly welded into the line of your thermocouple. When I pulled the burner assembly out my military troubleshooting skills kicked in and I began checking every part for tightness and feasability. That little disc clicked when I touched it and that prompted me to research the design for AO Smith burners. Turned out that this design is new and flawed. its designed to activate your auto gas shutoff valve if the chamer reaches a certain temp. The problem with that is that if your in an area like Colorado that has high winds this puts huge pressure on the already weak welds holding it in place. Upon removing that disc and joing the broken thermocouple wire together with a simple thermal resistant wire connector from Lowes my hot water has never run out yet. I can even fill my 60 gallon garden tub in my Master bath completely with hot water where I could only reach half way before. I have effectively saved myself over 400 dollars in costly replacement and disposal of my water heater. I hope this does the same for you guys. Good luck and God Bless.


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## Dongus Eddy

Great info on this problem. Is it me or is A O Smith a dishonorable company? They manufacture a defective product, fail to recall the product, provide a "tool" with which to address the problem albeit on a darned frequent basis, and the consumer is left holding the bag.

I'm a home inspector in Denver. A client family of mine who recently moved here from China and who have limited English skills called me a few months after moving in to tell me of the problem with their water heater. I went and checked it out and it appeared to be okay. After brushing off my cultural hubris thinking that the client was doing something wrong, I research on the web and find this story repeated often. Now it looks like they have either to become water heater techs or get a new water heater. If I had to play with my water heater every few months, I'd make a planter out of it.

Guess I can't do much more that feel for my client and warn future clients when I encounter any A O Smith product. This really stinks.


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## stanlam

Hey, I just noticed your post. The problem is not with A O Smith, it's with the design of these sealed flame waterheater. I just posted something similar a few hours ago regarding a GE (2 year old) and Rheem (4 years old) water heater. Here's what I wrote....

*Can you believe a spider has the ability to break a waterheater?*

I know that sounds weird, but it true. I worked on two waterheaters that would randomly shut off about once a day. These are the newer style water heaters that have the flamed sealed, and you can see the pilot through the glass. I actually called the manufacturer and they sent me a brand new gas valve. Even after installing the new gas valve, the same problem persisted. Well it turned out that a spider web blocked enough of the air vents on the bottom of the water heater to cause the problem.

To fix the problem, I used a Shop-Vac, and put the vacuum holes so it would be a blower instead of a vacuum. Then I put the vacuum holes on top vent of the waterheater. This blew the air through the waterheater and cleared the vents from the bottom of the waterheater.

I just thought I share this information, because this is one problem that was boggling my mind for about a week. I was ready to replace both of these waterheaters, until somebody suggest this solution. The older water heaters, the ones with the flame exposed and needed to be lite with a match, never had problems like this.


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## rudolph58

the newer style gas water heaters are a pain in the ass !


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## Yoyizit

Dongus Eddy said:


> They manufacture a defective product, fail to recall the product, provide a "tool" with which to address the problem albeit on a darned frequent basis, and the consumer is left holding the bag.


Be careful.
http://www.illinoisconstructionlawblog.com/uploads/file/Weatherguard v_ John Does 1-18.pdf
This gets pretty interesting after page 2.


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## rudolph58

Gee,i did not indicate a particular manuf.even dough i think there are only3 or 4 of them and they can say ass on tv.


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## rudolph58

i am sorry. i think you directed that toward dongus eddy's post


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## Yoyizit

rudolph58 said:


> they can say ass on tv.


This might come under 1st amendment free speech; no lawsuit there. . . :laughing: Nowadays it might not even be "offensive speech."

The U. of MD newspaper is/was called The Diamondback. 
One time a bunch of fraternity brothers wrote to the paper and said that the MD cheerleaders were "dogs" and that the cheerleaders from the visiting football teams were always prettier. 
Does the proverb "the grass is always greener. . ." come to mind?

An engineer-turned-lawyer told me that this was "offensive speech" and that this is protected by law.

Protected or not, you can't imagine the firestorm after that letter was published.


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## Jeff&Zee

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone, especially Plumber Jim... glad I found this site.

Nearly a year after we bought our (1948 model) home in May 2003, we started smelling gas in the area of our water heater, which is downstairs in the unfinished basement. Since our home came with a "home warranty" (but that's another story, for another time), we didn't kick up too much of a fuss when the plumber we called replaced it with a newer A O Smith model. We got a good deal on the replacement under the warranty, so we didn't research the choice, but just went with what they installed.

All was well until about a month ago, when one day I discovered there was no hot water. We went downstairs, read the instructions, and relit the pilot. Unfortunately, we repeated this several times over a few days, and the pilot would not stay lit.

Jeff thought it might be the thermocouple, having dealt with this problem before. Unfortunately, this unit is new enough to be the closed-chamber type, and we did not feel comfortable messing around with replacement on these newfangled units. And with our being in financial straits, calling a plumber was not a viable option.

Fortunately, I found this thread. The first thing I did was vacuum the little air intake on the bottom of the unit. We have cats, and there is cat hair drifting around in the unfinished basement; this had totally clogged the intake, and I'm sure the pilot light and burner unit were starving for air. (Silly me did not even know about this filter, although it's probably mentioned in the manual somewhere). I also poked the crevice tool of the shop vac into the hole, and vacuumed up as much as I could. The unit is working fine now; but I suppose I need to figure out a way to clean that arrestor screen directly.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks... you saved us a lot of hassle and expense.


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## flypsyde

In the spirit of Thanksgiving I am thankful I found this site and this thread!

I too have an AO Smith water heater (GNR 50 100)! We have a newer home (built about 2 years ago) and haven't had any issues at all with the water heater. Yesterday we noticed there wasn't any hot water and I saw that the pilot light had gone out. I re-lit it but after about 2 hours we noticed it had gone out again. I re-lit it again and this time hung around in the garage to monitor it. After a while I started hearing a sizzling sound and after about 20 minutes it stopped heating and the pilot light was out, and after that I couldn't even get the pilot light to stay lit.

This morning, after researching online, I decided to replace the thermocouple. Once I got the burner assembly out I saw that the surface of the burner itself had some burnt residue and the bottom of the burner chamber itself looked as if something had dripped inside. Not a lot, and it didn't look fresh, but it still made me wonder about that sizzling sound I'd heard yesterday. There was also a fine green dust on the burner surface. Other than the residue and green dust the inside of the heater was actually pretty clean. Some regular dust but the flame arrestor was clear. I wiped away what was there and ran some compressed air on the flame arrestor just to be sure.

I replaced the thermocouple, reinstalled the burner, and relit the pilot light with no problem. I hung around in the garage again until the water heater stopped heating, and the pilot light had gone out again! I re-lit the pilot light and then played with the temperature settings and the pilot light stayed on the entire time. I watched it go through another heating cycle and this time the pilot light stayed lit after it was done heating. But a couple hours later the pilot light was out again and now I can't get it to stay lit at all! The one difference from yesterday was that I didn't hear any sizzling at all.

My best guess is that the gas control valve is bad. The thermocouple is brand new and there is obviously enough air flow to light the pilot, but it will not stay lit.

At this point I'm not sure what the best way to proceed is. The water heater is still under warranty from AO Smith but I'm concerned about how long it would take to get replacement parts. My local Lowe's has a gas control valve on the shelf for $62 but I'm not sure if it's the same as the one on my water heater. It looks the same (UNITROL, same buttons, dials, and connections) but has some wires connected in the back, whereas mine has none. Could I disconnect those wires and just use it?

I'm going to call AO Smith in the morning and search for a replacement part again locally. I just wish I could be 100% sure it's the gas control valve!

Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks!

FlypSyde


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## stanlam

flypsyde said:


> In the spirit of Thanksgiving I am thankful I found this site and this thread!
> 
> I too have an AO Smith water heater (GNR 50 100)! We have a newer home (built about 2 years ago) and haven't had any issues at all with the water heater. Yesterday we noticed there wasn't any hot water and I saw that the pilot light had gone out. I re-lit it but after about 2 hours we noticed it had gone out again. I re-lit it again and this time hung around in the garage to monitor it. After a while I started hearing a sizzling sound and after about 20 minutes it stopped heating and the pilot light was out, and after that I couldn't even get the pilot light to stay lit.
> 
> This morning, after researching online, I decided to replace the thermocouple. Once I got the burner assembly out I saw that the surface of the burner itself had some burnt residue and the bottom of the burner chamber itself looked as if something had dripped inside. Not a lot, and it didn't look fresh, but it still made me wonder about that sizzling sound I'd heard yesterday. There was also a fine green dust on the burner surface. Other than the residue and green dust the inside of the heater was actually pretty clean. Some regular dust but the flame arrestor was clear. I wiped away what was there and ran some compressed air on the flame arrestor just to be sure.
> 
> I replaced the thermocouple, reinstalled the burner, and relit the pilot light with no problem. I hung around in the garage again until the water heater stopped heating, and the pilot light had gone out again! I re-lit the pilot light and then played with the temperature settings and the pilot light stayed on the entire time. I watched it go through another heating cycle and this time the pilot light stayed lit after it was done heating. But a couple hours later the pilot light was out again and now I can't get it to stay lit at all! The one difference from yesterday was that I didn't hear any sizzling at all.
> 
> My best guess is that the gas control valve is bad. The thermocouple is brand new and there is obviously enough air flow to light the pilot, but it will not stay lit.
> 
> At this point I'm not sure what the best way to proceed is. The water heater is still under warranty from AO Smith but I'm concerned about how long it would take to get replacement parts. My local Lowe's has a gas control valve on the shelf for $62 but I'm not sure if it's the same as the one on my water heater. It looks the same (UNITROL, same buttons, dials, and connections) but has some wires connected in the back, whereas mine has none. Could I disconnect those wires and just use it?
> 
> I'm going to call AO Smith in the morning and search for a replacement part again locally. I just wish I could be 100% sure it's the gas control valve!
> 
> Any advice or suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> FlypSyde


I posted this earlier. I think it will work....


I know that sounds weird, but it true. I worked on two waterheaters that would randomly shut off about once a day. These are the newer style water heaters that have the flamed sealed, and you can see the pilot through the glass. I actually called the manufacturer and they sent me a brand new gas valve. Even after installing the new gas valve, the same problem persisted. Well it turned out that a spider web blocked enough of the air vents on the bottom of the water heater to cause the problem.

To fix the problem, I used a Shop-Vac, and put the vacuum holes so it would be a blower instead of a vacuum. Then I put the vacuum holes on top vent of the waterheater. This blew the air through the waterheater and cleared the vents from the bottom of the waterheater.

I just thought I share this information, because this is one problem that was boggling my mind for about a week. I was ready to replace both of these waterheaters, until somebody suggest this solution. The older water heaters, the ones with the flame exposed and needed to be lite with a match, never had problems like this.


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## Plumber26

We do routine maintenances for our customers as part of a service contract and I've found that the easiest way to clean the flame arrestor is to have a shop vac that vacumms on one end and blows out the other. Take the door off, pull the burner/pilot assembly. (You'll need an extra vacumm hose for this) Stick the end of the hose that blows air out inside the combustion chamber blowing down, at the same time, stick the one that sucks in the bottom of the unit below the combustion chamber. Clean out the combustion chamber, clean soot off of t-couple w/ sand cloth or rag, reassemble, relight, check for gas leaks, the end.


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## flypsyde

I'm pretty confident that the flame arrestor, all air vents, the igniter, and pilot assembly on my water heater are clean and unobstructed. When I had the burner assembly out I checked and cleaned what I could. I'll check it again tomorrow though. The fact that the thermocouple is brand new and the pilot does light but won't stay lit really leads me to believe the gas control valve is bad.

@stanlam
How long did it take for you to receive the replacement gas control valve from the manufacturer?


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## stanlam

flypsyde said:


> I'm pretty confident that the flame arrestor, all air vents, the igniter, and pilot assembly on my water heater are clean and unobstructed. When I had the burner assembly out I checked and cleaned what I could. I'll check it again tomorrow though. The fact that the thermocouple is brand new and the pilot does light but won't stay lit really leads me to believe the gas control valve is bad.
> 
> @stanlam
> How long did it take for you to receive the replacement gas control valve from the manufacturer?


The replacement gas valve was sent to me priority so it came in a few days. However, the company was reluctant to send it to me because the representative kept saying it wasn't the control valve according to what I told them and they were right. No receipt was necessary, they go by the serial number to see how old it is.

I still think it's caused by the air flow being clogged. Here's something you can do to test the air flow. Remove the screws that connect the glass on the water heater. Then loosen the glass, that way the burner will have a little more air flow. If after you loosen the glass and the water heater stays lit longer or stay lit all the time, then you know it's the air flow and the shop vac should fix it. Removing the glass will make the water heater less safe. However, I won't worry about that, since all the water heater made 10 years prior didn't even have the glass that sealed the burner. 

Remember that the water heater is made so precise that it has to allow enough air to allow the pilot and burner to work, but not enough to ignite a gas leak if there was one. All you need is a spider that spins a web to block the air flow. The water heater can look perfectly clean from the outside. It's the inside where it matters.


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## kenmac

whenever the burner assy is remover the seal should be replaced. I worked on some of these .Most of the time the problem is the way they set up the wh to put itself out in the event of a flash / fire. that device is usually part of the burner assy


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## flypsyde

Well, my problem ended up being the gas control valve. I had a plumber come out and he came to the same conclusion and replaced it. Once the new one was in the pilot light lit up on the first try. The water heater has been working perfectly since.

-FlypSyde


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## stanlam

flypsyde said:


> Well, my problem ended up being the gas control valve. I had a plumber come out and he came to the same conclusion and replaced it. Once the new one was in the pilot light lit up on the first try. The water heater has been working perfectly since.
> 
> -FlypSyde


Wow, I guess I was wrong. Good thing your plumber got it right.


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## sergio7500

stanlam said:


> The replacement gas valve was sent to me priority so it came in a few days. However, the company was reluctant to send it to me because the representative kept saying it wasn't the control valve according to what I told them and they were right. No receipt was necessary, they go by the serial number to see how old it is.
> 
> I still think it's caused by the air flow being clogged. Here's something you can do to test the air flow. Remove the screws that connect the glass on the water heater. Then loosen the glass, that way the burner will have a little more air flow. If after you loosen the glass and the water heater stays lit longer or stay lit all the time, then you know it's the air flow and the shop vac should fix it. Removing the glass will make the water heater less safe. However, I won't worry about that, since all the water heater made 10 years prior didn't even have the glass that sealed the burner.
> 
> Remember that the water heater is made so precise that it has to allow enough air to allow the pilot and burner to work, but not enough to ignite a gas leak if there was one. All you need is a spider that spins a web to block the air flow. The water heater can look perfectly clean from the outside. It's the inside where it matters.


 
My Water heater wont stay lit, I tried what you suggested. and when I have the cover open it stays lit. How do I fix this issue, is it just a matter of cleaning it with a shop vac. the water heater will stay on for a day or so but eventually will turn off, even with the access door cracked opened. Any suggestions


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## stanlam

sergio7500 said:


> My Water heater wont stay lit, I tried what you suggested. and when I have the cover open it stays lit. How do I fix this issue, is it just a matter of cleaning it with a shop vac. the water heater will stay on for a day or so but eventually will turn off, even with the access door cracked opened. Any suggestions


There were 2 water heater that I was working on that had the same problem. One water heater has been working for over a year since I cleaned it out with the shop vac. The 2nd water heater worked for a little while, then the same problem happened again with the pilot turning off every few days. I eventually unscrewed the screws on the glass where the pilot is and it has been working for several months and still working.

Try the Shop Vac. I think my 2nd water heater would of worked, but my shop vac couldn't clear the water heater vents enough.


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## sergio7500

stanlam said:


> There were 2 water heater that I was working on that had the same problem. One water heater has been working for over a year since I cleaned it out with the shop vac. The 2nd water heater worked for a little while, then the same problem happened again with the pilot turning off every few days. I eventually unscrewed the screws on the glass where the pilot is and it has been working for several months and still working.
> 
> Try the Shop Vac. I think my 2nd water heater would of worked, but my shop vac couldn't clear the water heater vents enough.


 
I am going to try the shop vac, It all stated after the water heater had a leaky hose, water was sprayed all over the water heater. Can it be possible for the moisture to have blocked the water heater vents since they are covered with insulation. I am thinking that the insulation is damp and is preventing air from getting into the combustion chamber. What do you think?


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## stanlam

sergio7500 said:


> I am going to try the shop vac, It all stated after the water heater had a leaky hose, water was sprayed all over the water heater. Can it be possible for the moisture to have blocked the water heater vents since they are covered with insulation. I am thinking that the insulation is damp and is preventing air from getting into the combustion chamber. What do you think?


My family owns several properties and I am the person who does all the maintenance for all the water heaters on about 25 units in the last 20 years. I've repaired and replaced over 30 water heaters. It seems like the older water heaters that did not have the flame sealed never had these problems. 99% of my water heater never had any maintenance problems until the tank busted so the whole unit was replaced. With my experience I'm still convinced that it has something to do with the vents. Try the Shop Vac. If you have to buy a shop vac, make sure you buy one that also blows air out. 

I'm the type of person that is somewhat ethical. So what I would go to Home Depot, look for a Shop Vac that is a open item box. When somebody returns things at Home Depot, this just put it back on the shelf. I would just look for a box that has been obviously opened and used, then buy that shop vac. Bring it home and clear the water heater. Then return it. I don't feel that guilty doing that since it's was opened before I bought it.


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## Bjoern

*Cold water from my FSG 50-232*

Good day.

I have a A.O. Smith Model FSG 50 232 NG water heater. I noticed that at least twice a week during the last few months that my shower water was only luke-warm in the morning. When I checked the pilot light, it was in fact still lit and the burner was going at full blast. 

What could the problem be? Is my gas company rationing my gas supply?

Regards,
Bjoern


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## Novice DIYer

HandymanMick said:


> Newer unit is probably starving for air.
> Intermitent pilot failure is the clue.
> Clean air screen (plastic) on bottom of tank.
> If thermocouple is bad, will not relight.


~~~~~~~~~~~

HandymanMick,

Your advice was RIGHT ON. :thumbup: I have a 5 year old A.O. Smith GVR 50 water heater, where the pilot would light and stay on for only a short period - usually a few hours to a day. I cleaned the air intake screen (long black plastic screen) at the bottom of the tank and that did the trick.

Thanks for your help!
Novice DIYer

UPDATE:

After initially thinking that my problem was solved by cleaning the air intake screen, my problem surfaced again. My pilot and gas burner would light and burn for about 4-5 minutes; then, there would be a click (gas shutting off) and the pilot and burner would shut off. I followed some other advice (discussed above) by vacuuming the flame arrestor at the bottom of the water heater, but my problem still persisted. Therefore, I waved the white flag and called a plumber who was a licensed A.O. Smith service provider. He immediately knew what the problem was - apparently, the pilot assembly on these units do not have the best design (or it's planned obsolescence on the part of A.O. Smith). He replaced the pilot assembly and it's up and running. I actually watched him install the pilot assembly unit, and it was a very easy process. I hope that others can benefit from this.


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## oldwildman

*Filter Cleaning for Gas Water Heaters*

AO SMITH SENT ME A VIDIO TO HELP EXPLAIN PROBLEM WITH PILOT OUTAGE--ITS A POS DESIGN TO ME BUT ONCE YOU SEE IT YOULL SAY THE SAME-------

http://www.hotwater101.com/video/gas-gascontrol-filtercleaning.html


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## stanlam

oldwildman said:


> AO SMITH SENT ME A VIDIO TO HELP EXPLAIN PROBLEM WITH PILOT OUTAGE--ITS A POS DESIGN TO ME BUT ONCE YOU SEE IT YOULL SAY THE SAME-------
> 
> http://www.hotwater101.com/video/gas-gascontrol-filtercleaning.html


THANKS A MILLION. The video makes it so much easier to understand.


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## LasVegasDale

oldwildman said:


> AO SMITH SENT ME A VIDIO TO HELP EXPLAIN PROBLEM WITH PILOT OUTAGE--ITS A POS DESIGN TO ME BUT ONCE YOU SEE IT YOULL SAY THE SAME-------
> 
> http://www.hotwater101.com/video/gas-gascontrol-filtercleaning.html


THANKS A MILLION X 2!!!! I was able to clean it, and it is finally burning strong. Let's hope it stays this way. By the way, my water heater sits in a pan so I didn't know what I was doing because I couldn't see....that is until I turn on my camera feature on the iPhone and looked inside as I was cleaning. :thumbup:


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## scottc0823

Ok 'bump' to this older thread...

I had the same exact problem so many are experiencing. My AO Smith Promax is about 4 yrs old and installed when my house was built in 2007. It has since been shutting off after 10-15 min of operation. The flame goes out completely along with pilot. I can relight it with no problem and the burner relights as well, but ultimately does not stay lit. My wife (originally I wrote this as 'we'...but i'm not taking the blame here because I told her we'll 'get what we pay for' going cheap!!), called a plumber she found on Craigslist, and he came out and thought it needed a new thermocouple. He said he would try to clean it first and I said I would do it. I didnt want to pay the $80 he was going to charge to reach in with some fine grit sand paper or emery cloth to clean the thing (a neighbor had told me it was easy). I managed to clean it up and get it going again. It worked for a while but is doing the same thing now. I'm not sure why I did not check the net, because this thread showed me to check the filter screen! (I didnt even know it had one.) A REAL plumber probably would have pointed to that right from the start, although the guy we called probably was just trying to make some extra money. 

Anyway we had my oldest daughters cats down there for the better part of the year and the hair was horrible. I'm guessing that thing is clogged to the hilt. Note;- there is no screen at the base where the holes to the underside of the tank are located, and in the video (by the way was that Al Gore doing the video? Sounded like him, lol), it showed a plastic one. Mine never had one so apparently they left it off when installed.
So now i'm going to go try the clean out and see what happens.

I do have one last question. When the (so called) plumber opened it up to show me how to clean the thermocouple, I was the one who put the cover back on. I see all this discussion about 'new seals' when you do this. I'm not sure what that refers to. My burner compartment cover had sort of a fiberglass insert on the inside, which i'm assuming is the seal they are referring. It fit back in just fine and looked exactly like it did when it was removed. I made sure the little rubber gaskets that fit around the tubing were in place as well, as I did read in the manual the burner chamber needed to be sealed. I'm hoping it is on there correct but again, looks just like before we removed it and I made sure the cover was good and snug. Thoughts?

Thanks again to all
Scott


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## dhedges

*Seasonal issues with pilot and main gas*

I've read all these posts. There seems to be a common thread...design problems with sealed combustion chambers. Anyway, my AO Smith has been relit multiple times daily by me for the last six years. It is part of my daily tasks. We can't just go take a shower, we have to light the hot water heater, wait for about 30 minutes, go shower, then relight the hot water heater so we can do dishes, then relight the hot water heater over and over again. What a pain in the arse. I feel like I live in the 1800's and have to boil water over a fire to get it warm.

I've tried brushing the flame arrestor, vacuuming the flame arrestor, cussing at the flame arrestor... all with limited relief of my daily routine of relighting the hot water heater. But here's the kicker... it only does this in the winter months in Colorado. And usually only when the outside air temp is below 40 degrees. Never have any problems during the summer.

Any thoughts?


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## tony d.

Yellowish pilot light a sign of starving for air or oxygen. Vacuuming the filter under the burner will only clean a little and you cannot see the filter if it is really clean. It will only work a few days and you'll back to the same problem. Use air compressor, get a long blow gun, bent the tip about 90 degrees and blow air on the filter from the top. It will clean the screen pretty good. Use eye protection and mask to protect yourself from flying debris and breathing the dust. I hope this will help you.


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## how

Hey dhedges
If after cleaning the filter and arrester the problem continues then...
The primary difference in a HWT that works above 40F but not below is the chimney draft. The colder the outside temp, the stronger the draft up the chimney and the more the pilot flame is pulled away from the thermocouple. Possible solutions can be replacing the thermocouple if the dcmv output is low, cleaning the pilot orifice, replacing a faulty gas vave that is not allowing enough gas to the pilot or putting in the replacement pilot assy).


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## andrewb

Just wanted to thank you and bump this. This solved my problem. No hot water yesterday. Called for service with the gas company, they said 2 days. Since that wasn't a good option... I came here. I couldn't locate the thermocouple locally after calling about 5 different plumbing supplies and Home Depot, so I cleaned both ends of it with brillo, vacuumed under the unit (thank you to the poster of the video) and cleaned the front screen, and voila the unit is working again.

Was not happy to see that AO Smtih offers that filter screen for free. Obviously there is a known problem with this unit.


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## its4sandra

*ao smith warranty*

https://warranty.hotwater.com/default.aspx

go here and check your warranty status. I have less than a year warranty left and when I called their customer service they asked for a description of my problem and are sending replacement parts with replacement instructions. The fellow I talked to was very nice and knowledgeable. They are sending a pilot assembly (which includes the thermocouple), a new temperature gauge and a cleaning kit. apparently there a known issues with this model and they have found annual cleaning resolves/prevents them from occurring. I thought this was really nice, since I will be out of warranty if this happens again in a few months or longer.


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## cat3516

thanks to all who posted this problem. it's 2:30 am and i think the pilot will stay lit now. i have replaced everything on this piece of sh&* and finally searched "A O smith wont stay lit"..... and found the cure. i never thought there would be a screen to clean, my wife was ready to buy a new tank.

Thanks Again!


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## Drgoodman5

*AO Smith Promax Water Heaters*

I have an AO Smith Promax water heater that will not stay lit. I called Customer Service and did everything I was told. I even had the Master Plumber come back out and he replaced the burner and gas control valve. Now 3 months later its doing the same thing.. Again he replaced the gas control valve and I took a hot shower.. Got out of shower and pilot is off again... AO Smith says they get calls all the time about this, but that its just because its located in the laundry room. Duh.. what if it was in the attic or basement? more lint and dust there than in the laundry room... DO NOT BUY AO SMITH.... Their Customer Service people read from a list of suggested fixes which none of them work. PRODUCT IS DEFECTIVE.....Plumber bills are killing me.. I think I will switch back to Electric. At least I had hot water and no pilot to light 6-8 times a day.


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## Finkelstein

This is a common problem with an easy fix. There is a screen at the bottom of the fire box which gets clogged periodically with dust -- sooner or later depending on the amount of dust in the ambient air. As dust accumulates on the screen, the fire will begin to not relight after a heating cycle,

The fix is to clean the screen. Access is through a slot at the very bottom of the heater, covered with a curved plastic door. We taped a toothbrush to a 1/2 inch dowel about 18 inches long, and when the fire fails to relight, we just brush the screen with the toothbrush -- no more problems until time to clean the screen again.

The company should include that fix in their user's manual. Maybe they are ashamed to acknowledge the design flaw.


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## rodkahn

*Re: AO Smith water heaters very troublesome*

I called AO Smith tech support. If the Honeywell gas controller LED is blinking 4-5 times, they said the gas valve needs to be replaced. But most of the time, cleaning the bottom of the arrestor screen should do the trick.


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## rodkahn

cat3516 said:


> thanks to all who posted this problem. it's 2:30 am and i think the pilot will stay lit now. i have replaced everything on this piece of sh&* and finally searched "A O smith wont stay lit"..... and found the cure. i never thought there would be a screen to clean, my wife was ready to buy a new tank.
> 
> Thanks Again!


A Plumber told me all newer tanks with FVIR have arrestor screen (since 2003), but Rheems don't seem to get clogged like AO Smiths.

AO Smith tech support is saying to clean their screens as often as every 3 months, if necessary.


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