# Can't get f-connectors onto rg-6 quad cable



## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Okay, I partially rewired my house with new RG-6Q cable today (got a 500' box from Lowes). I have been using Ideal brand RG-6/RG-6Q compression fittings for several years now but that was with my older RG-6 wiring.

I cannot for the life of me get these damn connectors to slide on all the way! I found two methods of prepping these and I tried both; peeling back the top 3 layers...won't work. Cutting off top 2 layers and peeling 3rd...won't work either. No matter what I do I can't get the little metal "sheath" inside the fitting to slide under the mesh.

How can they say these are for both RG-6 AND Quad? What brand of compression f-connectors specifically for quad do you guys recommend? I've read a couple things online about heating the cable with a heat gun, does this work?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

DoctorWho said:


> Okay, I partially rewired my house with new RG-6Q cable today (got a 500' box from Lowes). I have been using Ideal brand RG-6/RG-6Q compression fittings for several years now but that was with my older RG-6 wiring.
> 
> I cannot for the life of me get these damn connectors to slide on all the way! I found two methods of prepping these and I tried both; peeling back the top 3 layers...won't work. Cutting off top 2 layers and peeling 3rd...won't work either. No matter what I do I can't get the little metal "sheath" inside the fitting to slide under the mesh.
> 
> How can they say these are for both RG-6 AND Quad? What brand of compression f-connectors specifically for quad do you guys recommend? I've read a couple things online about heating the cable with a heat gun, does this work?


I have always struggled with quad cable... I will never use it again.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Are you leaving both layers of foil on the cable?


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> Are you leaving both layers of foil on the cable?


Yes and no, I tried both methods, removing only the outer rubber and peeling both mesh layers and the 1st foil back, and I tried cutting off the 1st mesh and foil layers, and only peeling the 2nd mesh back, still won't go on.

Man this sucks, I was all pumped about getting better signal throughout the house and now I want to rip the cable out of the wall and burn it.

(can you tell I'm easily frustrated when things don't work like they should? :yes


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

DoctorWho said:


> Yes and no, I tried both methods, removing only the outer rubber and peeling both mesh layers and the 1st foil back, and I tried cutting off the 1st mesh and foil layers, and only peeling the 2nd mesh back, still won't go on.
> 
> Man this sucks, I was all pumped about getting better signal throughout the house and now I want to rip the cable out of the wall and burn it.
> 
> (can you tell I'm easily frustrated when things don't work like they should? :yes


You wont get a better signal... just so you know.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

stickboy1375 said:


> I have always struggled with quad cable... I will never use it again.


I'm sad to say I am starting to agree with you, money down the tubes as usual.

I want to try a quad-specific f-fitting before I give up though. I liked Ideal brand stuff but I'm not impressed by their fittings compatibility with quad.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Have you tried one of these tools?

http://www.idealindustries.com/prod...emoval_tool&div=2&l1=tools&l2=connector_tools

You screw the connector onto the end and push the cable into the connector using a slight twisting motion.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

stickboy1375 said:


> You wont get a better signal... just so you know.


My thoughts as well....

Just as Monster Cable will not give you better sound.

Since it sounds like your replacing cable due to poor signal....I'm assuming you have one coax coming in and split to multiple cables? If so...are we talking cable service or antenna?

Just so you know, not all splitters are made equal...also note that for a given splitter....each tap accounts for a 3db drop in signal....or in simple terms....a 2 way splitter (1 in, 2 out), each output is down 3db=1/2 power. If you have a splitter with 4 outputs....each tap is 1/4th the power or less......even if nothing is connected.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

stickboy1375 said:


> You wont get a better signal... just so you know.


I'm just looking for a cleaner signal from it, not a stronger one. Comcast guy said there was a lot of noise, I have a long run from the street (about 150') and it runs right past my transformer and power lines all the way, I can't do anything about the coax up on the lines but I needed to rewire inside the house anyway (house is mostly 1980's era RG-59) so I figured I'd go with quad. Whether it really helps or not? Who knows. My street light is also only a couple feet away from it and the picture fuzzes for a second when it goes on and off (of course the bulb is dying so it does it a lot).

I wouldn't even care that much about the money, just $44, but I already rewired half of it! Never occured to me to try terminating before getting started.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

ddawg16 said:


> Just so you know, not all splitters are made equal...also note that for a given splitter....each tap accounts for a 3db drop in signal....or in simple terms....a 2 way splitter (1 in, 2 out), each output is down 3db=1/2 power. If you have a splitter with 4 outputs....each tap is 1/4th the power or less......even if nothing is connected.


All I have is a modem tap, then a 3-way splitter and that's all. The modem tap was put in by Comcast so I assume it's a good quality one. I've tried a couple different good-brand splitters just to make sure and they make no difference.


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## DoctorWho (Jun 21, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> Have you tried one of these tools?
> 
> http://www.idealindustries.com/prod...emoval_tool&div=2&l1=tools&l2=connector_tools
> 
> You screw the connector onto the end and push the cable into the connector using a slight twisting motion.


That's the very tool I have. I tried using the end of it to "screw" on a compression fitting but the cable just squishes up instead of sliding in any further.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Are we talking analog? By now, all of your TV should be digital.

The transformer is not going to have any effect on you......60Hz.....I would speculate that most of your signal is in the 200Mhz to 1Ghz range...

How does the Comcast guy know you have noise? Unless he hooked up a spectrum analyzer or using a SNR analyzer....he is just giving you a line of bull.....I suspect you have a low signal level at your section of the line and he doesn't want to do anything about it.

With that said....the RG6 does have less loss than the older RG59.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

ddawg16 said:


> Are we talking analog? By now, all of your TV should be digital.
> 
> The transformer is not going to have any effect on you......60Hz.....I would speculate that most of your signal is in the 200Mhz to 1Ghz range...
> 
> ...


The main advantage of rg6 quad is noise immunity due to the quad shielding. Ingress noise created within the home can hurt the upstream cable signal. The less of it coupled the better. 

Maybe you just have rg6 F connectors mislabeled as rg6quad.... Try buying a small pack of another brand f connectors.

Your set top has a diagnostic mode where you can see signal strength. Just google the model number and you'll find the sequence to jump into this mode. You don't need a spectrum analyzer the STop can give reasonably accurate signal readings.


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## combs&co (Aug 21, 2012)

Quad shield cable is terrible to work with, that's one of the reasons no cable company uses it. If I were you I'd try some different compression connectors but do not buy the screw on type your only asking for problems down the road. Your 150' service drop is not far it's actually pretty common, if your still having issues after installing your new rg-6 over the rg-59 you may have low signal at the main service tap and that will need to be adjusted. Also after you have everything wired I would call comcast and have them send a service technician out to connect your new outlets with a good splitter if you use the cheap ones you can buy your asking for issues.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

combs&co said:


> Quad shield cable is terrible to work with, that's one of the reasons *no *cable company uses it.


They all use it. Ingress noise is a major problem for the carrier on the upstream channels. Quad shield is the best defense.


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## combs&co (Aug 21, 2012)

*ummm*

No sir they do not! Your right that upstream noise is an issue but it rarely is caused by the lack of shielding in standard rg-6 cable. Ingress tends to get in by bad connectors such as the screw on type and cheap splitters.


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## herdfan (Jul 7, 2012)

http://www.datacomtools.com/catalog/paladin/Flaring-Tools.htm

I have the bottom one but have never used it. Bought it for the same reason you are having trouble: Lowes supplied QS coax. Was able to get it done with the tool shown above before the flaring tool arrived.

At that point, I made a decision. No more cable from Lowes or HD. Since then, I finished wiring the rest of my house with Belden 1829 BC. So much easier to terminate. It's not QS, but my DirecTV system doesn't seem to mind.


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh man. All I did was skim this topic, but as a cable tech, here's my input.

- There is no advantage in using quad shield in a house. None. I don't care what they tried to tell you at Lowes. There is 0 advantage to using this in a house, and even outside.

- curiousB, your advice is pretty bad. First of all, we don't use quad shield. The only people who use quad shield are homeowners who get sold on it, or electricians who get it at a discounted price because their suppliers can't move it as quickly as standard. Noise is only generated by malfunctioning/poorly shielded active/passive equipment, damaged cables and bad/improperly fitted connectors. Period. 

- Using your ASTB ( advanced set-top box ) for signal diagnostics is not foolproof. I can read a -17 w/ 27 mer on my meter on a given channel, then go to that channel in the ASTB diagnostic and see a 33 mer w/ no correctable or uncorrectable errors. Our meters are awful at forward error-correction, and there's a reason: so we can see the problem that is not currently visible to the ASTB, and fix it, before it gets worse.

Now, back to the method of prepping RG-6 quad cable.

- Are you prepping the cable with a rg59/rg6 prep tool? If your prep tool has a stop on it (meaning you can only insert the cable so far), then butt the cable against the stop and prep. If there is no stop, then hold the end of the cable flush with the exterior of the prep tool.

- When the cable is prepped, you have to peel back the first layer of braid. Then, cut the first layer of foil off. The easiest method to do that is to find the seam in the foil, peel the foil a bit, then slit the bottom and take it off. Peel back the second layer of braid, then place the connector on until the dielectric is flush with the bottom of the inside of the connector (looking down into it, the white part of the cable should be flush with the bottom of the threaded portion of the connector). Compress, and you're done.


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## Auger01 (Sep 13, 2011)

I use the Thomas and Betts "Snap and Seal" RG6QS connectors. They work great. I have some that have been on my dish install out in the rain for a decade now and they are still working great. You have to buy their "it1000" tool to install them however.


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

DoctorWho said:


> I'm just looking for a cleaner signal from it, not a stronger one. Comcast guy said there was a lot of noise, I have a long run from the street (about 150') and it runs right past my transformer and power lines all the way, I can't do anything about the coax up on the lines but I needed to rewire inside the house anyway (house is mostly 1980's era RG-59) so I figured I'd go with quad. Whether it really helps or not? Who knows. My street light is also only a couple feet away from it and the picture fuzzes for a second when it goes on and off (of course the bulb is dying so it does it a lot).
> 
> I wouldn't even care that much about the money, just $44, but I already rewired half of it! Never occured to me to try terminating before getting started.


Code is to run it with your power. Just like phone. Standard rg6 is just fine for that, and 150' is pretty normal. You have 59 cable, and the tech told you it was getting noise in it. Not going to lie, 59 cable is fine for in-house applications, so long as it has proper shielding and the runs are not excessively long. Now, a lot of the older 59 cable used copper braiding as their only shield. Using just braid was fine for that era, since cable ran on low frequencies. In this day and age though, when we use 750mhz+ frequencies, braid is just not enough. Braid stops low-band ingress, but it's the foil that stops high-band ingress. If your house simply has the copper-braided cable, then that's a huge issue. If it's your standard braid/foil, then I can't comment on your situation without being there.


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Are we talking analog? By now, all of your TV should be digital.
> 
> The transformer is not going to have any effect on you......60Hz.....I would speculate that most of your signal is in the 200Mhz to 1Ghz range...
> 
> ...


Most systems use 5-42mhz for the return, and 55-750mhz+ for the forward.

I don't understand why you're so quick to attack the tech. Rest assured that if there's a line problem, then it would affect more than just one customer, and that in turn would generate more service calls, more work for the tech, etc.. Guess what? We like to get it right the first time so that we don't have to go back out. A DSAM has far more capabilities than just looking at the spectrum and measuring snr/mer. Just so you know.


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

Auger01 said:


> I use the Thomas and Betts "Snap and Seal" RG6QS connectors. They work great. I have some that have been on my dish install out in the rain for a decade now and they are still working great. You have to buy their "it1000" tool to install them however.


Yeah, The T&B SNS are what we used on our system for quite a while, until we went to a cheaper brand (not my idea, but so far they're working). The 6 SNS connectors are blue-ringed, and the 6QS are purple ringed. You CAN get a blue-ringed connector on a QS cable, although it's not recommended, can be a pain, and can over-stress the compression ring.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Tonglebeak said:


> Most systems use 5-42mhz for the return, and 55-750mhz+ for the forward.
> 
> I don't understand why you're so quick to attack the tech. *Rest assured that if there's a line problem, then it would affect more than just one customer, and that in turn would generate more service calls, more work for the tech, etc..* Guess what? We like to get it right the first time so that we don't have to go back out. A DSAM has far more capabilities than just looking at the spectrum and measuring snr/mer. Just so you know.


Ok....Points taken.....

But if what you say above is true? And the Tech told the OP he had a noisy line.....and....you just said that if there is a problem in the OP's line then it affects more than one customer........it would appear that the tech is not doing as you say above and fixing it for the others.....hence....I have to question the 'reliability' of the tech's analysis of the coax line.

Unless of course that I'm missing something....


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Ok....Points taken.....
> 
> But if what you say above is true? And the Tech told the OP he had a noisy line.....and....you just said that if there is a problem in the OP's line then it affects more than one customer........it would appear that the tech is not doing as you say above and fixing it for the others.....hence....I have to question the 'reliability' of the tech's analysis of the coax line.
> 
> Unless of course that I'm missing something....


You are, but it's easy to get confused.

When we say "line problem," we're referring to mainline (the large line you see that spans poles and pedestals. That's what serves multiple addresses). If the tech told the OP he needs new in-house cable, then it's been deemed that the OP has bad prewires ( cables that were installed behind walls ).


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Tonglebeak said:


> You are, but it's easy to get confused.
> 
> When we say "line problem," we're referring to mainline (the large line you see that spans poles and pedestals. That's what serves multiple addresses). *If the tech told the OP he needs new in-house cable,* then it's been deemed that the OP has bad prewires ( cables that were installed behind walls ).


Did he? Please note the below....



DoctorWho said:


> I'm just looking for a cleaner signal from it, not a stronger one. Comcast guy said there was a lot of noise, I have a long run from the street (about 150') and it runs right past my transformer and power lines all the way, I can't do anything about the coax up on the lines but I needed to rewire inside the house anyway (house is mostly 1980's era RG-59) so I figured I'd go with quad. Whether it really helps or not? Who knows. *My street light is also only a couple feet away from it and the picture fuzzes for a second when it goes on and off* (of course the bulb is dying so it does it a lot).
> 
> I wouldn't even care that much about the money, just $44, but I already rewired half of it! Never occured to me to try terminating before getting started.


To me it sounds like the issue is outside the house.....though I agree that replacing the RG59 with RG6 will help......assuming the majority of noise was originating in the house.


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## Tonglebeak (Dec 28, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> Did he? Please note the below....
> 
> 
> 
> To me it sounds like the issue is outside the house.....though I agree that replacing the RG59 with RG6 will help......assuming the majority of noise was originating in the house.


The issue could really be anywhere from outside, to behind the ASTB. I was at a house a few days ago for a similar issue. Anytime a light was turned on in his house, only 1 outlet would tile. The others would continue to work just fine. He also had garbage signal coming out of the wall outlet. Of course, signal to the house was just fine. The garbage signal combined with tiling whenever a light was switched on/off led to the conclusion that the prewire for that outlet is bad, likely due to a staple being driven to it during initial construction. It is likely that, over time, thermal expansion/contraction caused the staple to work itself through the cable's shielding.

You'd be surprised how small of a voltage you need in order to spam the RF spectrum. Wireless telegraphs worked that way (such as ones used on older ships, like the Titanic). They would generate a small arc, which emits noise across the broad spectrum range. The same thing applies to AM radios. Next time you're driving in a car around a storm, turn on your AM radio and listen to it whenever you see lightning anywhere around.

Even a simple 9v battery and a quarter will spam the RF spectrum and cause tiling.

I'd be curious as to whether or not OP is having issues with all TVs, or if it's just 1.


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