# Anyone Installl the new Rheem RP20 Seer Line yet?



## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

I am looking to jump into the new Rheem RP20 HP 20 Seer with the VS Air handler and Econet thermostat. Does anyone here have any experience with this new setup?

I will be replacing a 4 Ton Frigidaire Heat Pump 13 SEER with an Ecobee thermostat for this setup. Any comments or concerns with this setup. 
Thanks,
Luis


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

I cant answer any of your questions because I have not installed any yet, but we had to take a class with Rheem before they would even sell the equipment to any of the dealers. I've taken a few of their classes but this is the first one that I can think of that it was mandatory before they would even sell you the equipment. They are pushing for a good end result for the consumer.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

BayouRunner said:


> I cant answer any of your questions because I have not installed any yet, but we had to take a class with Rheem before they would even sell the equipment to any of the dealers. I've taken a few of their classes but this is the first one that I can think of that it was mandatory before they would even sell you the equipment. They are pushing for a good end result for the consumer.


Pretty neat, hopefully it is a good unit. The new line of Rheem is pretty nice and quiet. So I will update with pics then when i go pick it up. I will show the before and after pics of the unit in place now and this new one in its place. 


Thanks for your input.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

It may be as big as a boat as the high SEER units are huge. Hopefully you are aware of the physical size.:smile:

Rheem has been making equipment since the mid 70's and is well established and I like their products.

With the uber complex units like the Lennox modulating furnace and now this Rheem unit they want their dealers to make 100% sure they are setup properly/commissioned properly at startup so they don't get bad publicity or results.

Makes sense and is good for the consumer.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

yuri said:


> It may be as big as a boat as the high SEER units are huge. Hopefully you are aware of the physical size.:smile:
> 
> Rheem has been making equipment since the mid 70's and is well established and I like their products.
> 
> ...


Yuri,

Thanks and yes i am aware of the size of the unit. The current one i have now is 32x32x48. This new one will be 36x36x54. So yeah a little bigger footprint for the heat pump. THe Econet VS Air handler is only 1 " bigger in height than i have now ..


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am not familiar with it but I would imagine it has a on demand de-humidification program which you could benefit from in humid Florida.

I would get the Communicating thermostat if it already does not come with it. Gives you more programs and feedback.

There is a TON of technology out there with Lennox and Trane and Carrier and some of the major big name brands. Problem is a lot of techs don't know how to use it or are not trained and know how to set it up properly. I would do some research on what all the capabilities are with it so you get your money's worth and comfort.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

I just finished installing a 17seer unit. It had a ECM condenser fan. If expect the Goodman to have the same. It was bulky, and just barely fit inside the property line.

The condensing unit/ AH/ and thermostat will likely be all on the communication bus. It means that it's a bit harder to troubleshoot, and especially hard to find techs willing to work on it. Other then that, it's still all the same theory just sightly different implementation. Nothing ground breaking anymore.

Cheers!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

May want to check their warranty requirements first.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah this unit has the ecm condenser fan motor. The inverter compressor is where the big energy savings will kick ln. They are set up with communicating thermostat. 10 year parts warranty. Also a ten year replacement warranty on equipment but Not sure of the details with that


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## sidejobjoe (May 30, 2014)

Man, wonder how much that thing costs with all those bells and whistles (and if you would ever recover the costs between it and a standard 15 SEER over the years).


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

sidejobjoe said:


> Man, wonder how much that thing costs with all those bells and whistles (and if you would ever recover the costs between it and a standard 15 SEER over the years).


I was at the AC shop today picking up items for my friend for another install. I seen and spoke to like 10 techs in a 1 hour timespan i was their, and NONE of them have installed one yet. Everyone pushes 1 stage around here at most. 

Ralph from T&N Services just installed an ICP 5 stage Inverter HP Condenser and he shows the AMP draw difference with a fieldpiece meter.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

sidejobjoe said:


> Man, wonder how much that thing costs with all those bells and whistles (and if you would ever recover the costs between it and a standard 15 SEER over the years).


Those units are comfort units. they do save the user money, but they are still primarily comfort systems. 

Installed properly, they provide the best A/C comfort you can get. Done wrong, they provide lots and lots of headaches.


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## sidejobjoe (May 30, 2014)

That is a pretty amazing difference. I guess the inverter piece varies the frequency of the A/C to speed up/slow down the compressor? (or it is a D/C compressor motor ?)


I have a 2 stage system (heat and cool) and never measured the amp difference between the 2 stages (probably no too much, given how it works). 

At the risk of hijacking your thread, is the "communicating" gear really worth it? I have a goodman indoor/outdoor unit and it is capable of of the "comfortnet" communicating stuff but I use it in "legacy" mode..... not too keen on a spending $450 on a thermostat.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

sidejobjoe said:


> That is a pretty amazing difference. I guess the inverter piece varies the frequency of the A/C to speed up/slow down the compressor? (or it is a D/C compressor motor ?)
> 
> 
> I have a 2 stage system (heat and cool) and never measured the amp difference between the 2 stages (probably no too much, given how it works).
> ...


No worries , and no hijacking needed . I am here to learn and gain knowledge from others and use it to help anyone i can. My 1 stage 4 Ton draws 17 amps at turn on and settles at 15.7amps through the complete duation. So i am looking forward to the energy savings this system provides.

Wow that much for a thermostat!! I see the new Econet thermostat for this system is less than 200 us. Measure the amp draw from both stages you will be shocked how much the system draws. When I seen 17.8 amps at start up and settle at 15.7 i was shocked. Looking at Ralphs inverter test it looks pretty amazing to say the least. 

I will let you know what the Econet provides with electricity usage updates. I have datalogs for the past 3 years on my current system. The only thing i am worried about going to Econet is loosing my IQ information i get monthly.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> I just finished installing a 17seer unit. It had a ECM condenser fan. If expect the Goodman to have the same. It was bulky, and just barely fit inside the property line.
> 
> The condensing unit/ AH/ and thermostat will likely be all on the communication bus. It means that it's a bit harder to troubleshoot, and especially hard to find techs willing to work on it. Other then that, it's still all the same theory just sightly different implementation. Nothing ground breaking anymore.
> 
> Cheers!


The one you installed, was it loud? Looking at this video on youtube is freaking me out...lol


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

LuisinFL said:


> The one you installed, was it loud? Looking at this video on youtube is freaking me out...lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpPTtghDwx4


That one sounds loud. Oh my...
Mine was a bit loud to my standards and york mentioned it was due to using an uncased coil instead of their perfectly matched box coils. They offered a sound jacket to compensate. My standards are fairly high though, since the neighbors water heater was louder, and the various neighboring units were 2x louder at the same distance. It doesn't use an inverter, just a regular 1 speed scroll. I estimate a ROI of about 5 years for the customer. (Just accounting for the price Difference over the cheaper model)

Cheers!


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

LuisinFL said:


> ... My 1 stage 4 Ton draws 17 amps at turn on and settles at 15.7amps through the complete duation. ....


Remember though, that's some 48,000 btu/hr at 15A. The inverter unit is pushing far less then that on lower speeds. (Instantaneous EER of 13.3 assuming 230V, and not accounting for the other motors involved.)

All compressors, alas like all machines, loose efficiency as you drop from design capacity. The inverter sucks up a bit of power too, so that's a few more percent gone. It's partially recovered by using specialized DC motors that are over 20% more efficient on net. (ECM)

The biggest savings is the reduction of constant cycling and very high end construction. IE. EXVs instead of TXVs or even fixed orifice. More efficient fan blades, much bigger coils, etc.

Cheers!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

LuisinFL said:


> My 1 stage 4 Ton draws 17 amps at turn on and settles at 15.7amps through the complete duation.


I guaranty that your single stage 4 ton compressor draws far far more then 17 amps on start up.

Look at the condenser's data label. You'll find a LRA listing. That is what your compressor actually draws on start up. Many meters are not responsive enough to show the true start up amp draw.
Save​


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

LuisinFL said:


> No worries , and no hijacking needed . I am here to learn and gain knowledge from others and use it to help anyone i can. My 1 stage 4 Ton draws 17 amps at turn on and settles at 15.7amps through the complete duation. So i am looking forward to the energy savings this system provides.
> 
> .


I would be careful about being wowed by the (seemingly) more efficient amp draw. They do save a bit more money with things like using the more efficient ecm motors... etc, but your not going save a million.

As BT pointed out above these things are built primarily for comfort. They're built to basically never shut off but rather throttle down. Your machine on the other hand settles the temperature demand in the house and then turns off and stays off until there is another demand.

Long story short... a 10 amp draw for 2 hours is the exact same thing in the wallet as a 2 amp draw for 10 hours.


The other thing to think about with these large stage or inverting machines is that when they break down the repair costs are on average, MUCH higher because of the increased cost of the much more complicated control circuitry.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

sidejobjoe said:


> That is a pretty amazing difference. I guess the inverter piece varies the frequency of the A/C to speed up/slow down the compressor? (or it is a D/C compressor motor ?)
> 
> 
> I have a 2 stage system (heat and cool) and never measured the amp difference between the 2 stages (probably no too much, given how it works).
> ...


If you have a complicated 5 stage/inverting machine then a communicating thermostat is probably worth it in order to take full advantage of all the staging and throttling. The legacy systems don't have the ability to offer that finite control.

On the other hand if you have a normal one or two stage system then the communicating systems do little more than simply offer a few more bells/whistles. With a communicating system on a 2 stage Goodman HP for example will allow you to adjust the defrost timing at the thermostat instead of running out to the condenser and flipping switches.... but there is little difference in the actual control of the system.

Overall these systems are more efficient in the high stage than they are in the low stage. Now there are other things to think about (humidity levels in the Summer... defrost times in the Winter.... etc), but if just concentrating on the COP during running times you can clearly see that in most cases the high stage on my Goodman 4 ton offers a better bang for the buck than the low stage:


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

In theory low capacity should be more efficient on these high end machines because of the very large coil sizes relative to capacity.

Once you get into 2+ stage stuff you get into circuit boards, ecm motors on the outdoor units.

Not so with furnaces, the repair cost premium for 2-stage furnaces isn't much unless u go really high end -> ecm inducer motor, etc. (well, at least that was the case when 2-stage/psc motor furnaces were common. they seem to be going away which is a shame)

But yes, staging is primarily for comfort. 

You can get good comfort from a single stage machine if not oversized.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

user_12345a said:


> In theory low capacity should be more efficient on these high end machines because of the very large coil sizes relative to capacity.
> 
> Once you get into 2+ stage stuff you get into circuit boards, ecm motors on the outdoor units.
> 
> ...


Bob is talking about in heat mode. In cooling mode first stage is more efficient.

In heating mode, you have less heat of compression in first stage.


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## sidejobjoe (May 30, 2014)

Interestingly, I was out yesterday checking out my A/C on a 91 degree day and little to no difference in the current draw on the compressor between high and low stage. I got about 6.5 amps on both legs.... 

The subcool increased quite a bit (went from 7 to 15 or so) on the high stage but that is about it. 

Seems to me the benefit of these systems is indeed comfort. Keep them running during the day as long as possible to dehumidify the air and mix up the air in your house.


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## leehop71 (Jul 23, 2016)

I wanted to jump in here concerning the thermostat talk.

I'm the one who posted about the new ductwork.

Even though I am NOT replacing my unit at present, I have a Maytag 3 ton 16 seer unit in it's 9th year of a 12 year parts and labor warranty.

When this unit does take a crap, I am really convinced to go Rheem.

I also currently have the Ecobee3 thermostat and I am very happy with it.

Is it right to 'assume' that the Ecobee3 will NOT work with the Rheem inverter unit?

If not, assuming that Ecobee will NOT work with ANY inverter technology?

If so, that kind of stinks because I really like the Ecobee3.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

All brands from what I know have 3 ways to use a inverter or high end communicating outdoor unit.

1) You can use a 1 stage conventional on/off tstat as some people want to until their furnace dies and they upgrade to 2 stage or modulating or a Communicating type furnace with a ECM motor. Reason for Communicating is to get better control over the ECM fan speeds and more programs/options.

2) 2 stage conventional tstat if you already have one and that type of furnace

3) Communicating so you get the extra feedback/info and features.

Point being the manufacturers are not dumb and they realize people want to switch their furnaces later and they have to make the inverter or communicating ACs temporarily compatible or they would not be able to sell them.

If you want all the features you must use the Rheem Communicating tstat same as Carrier and Lennox etc have to use their own due to the proprietary programming. Maybe in 10 yrs they will all come up with the same protocol but I doubt it. Too much money to be made in keeping you with their own tstat and selling it to you.


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## leehop71 (Jul 23, 2016)

yuri said:


> All brands from what I know have 3 ways to use a inverter or high end communicating outdoor unit.
> 
> 1) You can use a 1 stage conventional on/off tstat as some people want to until their furnace dies and they upgrade to 2 stage or modulating or a Communicating type furnace with a ECM motor. Reason for Communicating is to get better control over the ECM fan speeds and more programs/options.
> 
> ...


I'm not very knowledgeable in the HVAC field, and tell me if I am understanding you correctly.

Buying an inverter capable Rheem unit, I 'could' use the Ecobee3 but would not benefit from ALL the features unless I use the Rheem thermostat?

I would get more efficiency out of the unit by using the Rheem thermostat?


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

You would have to look up the model and see what algorithms it uses it a single or two stage thermostat.

In order to get variable capacity control based on room temp u likely need the communicating control.

The blower cfm must also track capacity to get decent dehumidification. 

Using anything but the communicating control and matching air handler with variable speed motor on these machines is probably a total waste. 

There's no point of spending big bucks on a high end unit only to cripple it. If you're into saving money this isn't the type of unit to get.

-----------------
You say the existing unit is 9 years old with a 12 year warranty. 

It's still new and exceeds minimum efficiency standards.

Barring compressor failure you should hold on to this unit - repair as needed.

You will never, ever get your money back changing out a 16 seer.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Efficiency is a buzzword. The actual efficiency is built into the unit according to the amount of electricity it uses. Kinda like the miles per gallon you get with a car. It can vary with the load or how hard you drive it.

Inverter units want to run the outdoor unit as long as possible as starting and stopping wastes energy. It is also a lot more comfortable when running longer cycles and removes more moisture/humidity from your house. If you are more comfy you may be able to set it 2 deg F higher and that saves run time and elec use and $$. With a 1 stage you may have to crank it lower to remove more moisture and feel the same.

A 1 stage tstat with a inverter is just as efficient as a Communicating tstat but you won't get all the features or comfort.


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## leehop71 (Jul 23, 2016)

user_12345a said:


> You would have to look up the model and see what algorithms it uses it a single or two stage thermostat.
> 
> In order to get variable capacity control based on room temp u likely need the communicating control.
> 
> ...


Totally agree on the unit. I will keep it until it craps out.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

leehop71 said:


> Is it right to 'assume' that the Ecobee3 will NOT work with the Rheem inverter unit?
> 
> If not, assuming that Ecobee will NOT work with ANY inverter technology?
> 
> If so, that kind of stinks because I really like the Ecobee3.


Most if not all systems have the standard legacy connections for thermostats along with their specialty connections for their own unique thermostats. You simply lose a bit of finite control and any specialty services which are offered through the specialty connections


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

You have to look at the service/install manual and check the sequence of operation/algorithm.

With a 1-stage thermostat these machines could very well start on low and slowely increase until satisfied.


With 2-stage there may be some better capacity control, like 1st stage is minimum capacity and it starts ramping up on a call for 2nd stage. (the key question is rather it can ramp down or not)

Some variable capacity furnaces/acs may work damn well with a 2-stage t-stat (trane is one of them, rheem another) -> being able to drop back down on 1st stage while others may not.

For best results you need the communicating stat.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

leehop71 said:


> I'm not very knowledgeable in the HVAC field, and tell me if I am understanding you correctly.
> 
> Buying an inverter capable Rheem unit, I 'could' use the Ecobee3 but would not benefit from ALL the features unless I use the Rheem thermostat?
> 
> I would get more efficiency out of the unit by using the Rheem thermostat?



Yes correct. You would need the Rheem ECONET thermostat to get the most out of the system from 2 Rheem techs i spoke to.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

yuri said:


> It may be as big as a boat as the high SEER units are huge. Hopefully you are aware of the physical size.:smile:
> 
> Rheem has been making equipment since the mid 70's and is well established and I like their products.
> 
> ...


WOW, I got the system in my truck and man you weren't kidding this thing is massive..lol 

Thank god my neighbor is like the incredible Hulk ... He lifted it up no problem. I was blown away how strong he is. He is the best neighbor i have ever had.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

They are not super heavy as it is a lot of empty air space between the compressor and coil. The coil needs to be huge to get the SEER. The bigger the coil the more radiator surface it has and ability to dissipate heat. The faster it gets rid of the heat the cheaper it is to run.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

yuri said:


> They are not super heavy as it is a lot of empty air space between the compressor and coil. The coil needs to be huge to get the SEER. The bigger the coil the more radiator surface it has and ability to dissipate heat. The faster it gets rid of the heat the cheaper it is to run.


I picked up the RP20 HP, Air Handler VS , and the Econet Thermstat. I will take a pic of the heat pump condenser once it unbowed tomorrow and also the Air Handler.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Make sure you register it on the internet to get the extended/full warranty. If you don't then it gets a shorter warranty.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

yuri said:


> Make sure you register it on the internet to get the extended/full warranty. If you don't then it gets a shorter warranty.


Of course after its installed and at least commissioned by a pro. (most warranty registrations demand a company name on the form.)

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

WOW this system is AWESOME.. Soo far i am Impressed. It is the most quietest system i have heard yet. I cannot believe how quiet it is. Of course like Yuri said it is a Beast of a machine... hahaha

Let me get some pics up of the before and after.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

This is the RP20 Outdoor unit and the Air Handler pic. I built the platform from Concrete Blocks since the area gets pretty wet by the Condenser. I wanted to lift it off of the ground to make sure the water does not get to it. All the homes here get pretty wet when it rains allot. I need to grade my yard to help with the drainage issue.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Of course after its installed and at least commissioned by a pro. (most warranty registrations demand a company name on the form.)
> 
> Cheers!


My Best friend does AC for a living. I am covered here ..


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> I just finished installing a 17seer unit. It had a ECM condenser fan. If expect the Goodman to have the same. It was bulky, and just barely fit inside the property line.
> 
> The condensing unit/ AH/ and thermostat will likely be all on the communication bus. It means that it's a bit harder to troubleshoot, and especially hard to find techs willing to work on it. Other then that, it's still all the same theory just sightly different implementation. Nothing ground breaking anymore.
> 
> Cheers!



Ok so having the system installed a little while now. I can disagree with this a little . The EConet tells you with error codes what is wrong with the unit at any time. Here is an example that i already witnessed. The system was reporting an error that the ODU lost connection. So i looked at it with my friend and sure enough the thermostat wire was to blame. Fixed it with a new one and all is well again and the error was gone. This is the 2nd error since install and both where reported at the Econet tstat with enough information to even let me troubleshoot it ....


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

LuisinFL said:


> Ok so having the system installed a little while now. I can disagree with this a little . The EConet tells you with error codes what is wrong with the unit at any time. Here is an example that i already witnessed. The system was reporting an error that the ODU lost connection. So i looked at it with my friend and sure enough the thermostat wire was to blame. Fixed it with a new one and all is well again and the error was gone. This is the 2nd error since install and both where reported at the Econet tstat with enough information to even let me troubleshoot it ....


It's all nice when it's new.... After a few years of weather and vibration abuse, things don't always go as planned. Firstly, they can't cover every single problem without having a million sensors. They do have enough to have a fair grip on how the system is working though. Secondly, sensors fail, or drift, valves wear (EEVs are no exception), bearings get a bit tighter then normal... Etc.

I actually do hope that it'll always be easy for you, but tech isn't ever that way. (before hvac I was into electronics, trusr me on that) Technology is the opposite of K.I.S.S. You get better machines that always make like just a like more interesting every once in a while. 

Cheers!


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Unit looks nice though. I'm glad that you're happy with it.

Are the blades the sweapt type? That'll keep it real quiet, until it's in 100% heating mode at least. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

If you don't mind me asking how much was this beast of a machine installed?

What size is it? The evap coil is huge.

Would be scarred of the after warranty repair bills, but i'm sure the utility bills will be low.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Looking closer at the picture, I like the wiring. They've pinned back the wiring so it's easy to change one of the boards and for better passive cooling. They've separated the various sections as to avoid having to change one large custom board. (power converter + inverter driver, capacitive dc smoothing, chokes, control board.) The driver and capacitors the the most likely to fail. Always wear safety glasses when opening that panel though... The capacitor vents are pointed at your face. 

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Unit looks nice though. I'm glad that you're happy with it.
> 
> Are the blades the sweapt type? That'll keep it real quiet, until it's in 100% heating mode at least.
> 
> ...


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

user_12345a said:


> If you don't mind me asking how much was this beast of a machine installed?
> 
> What size is it? The evap coil is huge.
> 
> Would be scarred of the after warranty repair bills, but i'm sure the utility bills will be low.



I don't want to discuss price as it is irrelevant, since prices fluctuate by region. It is a 4 ton HP. I was using between 50-55 KWH in August. So far after looking at My Neurio i am averaging 23-28 kwh a day at max. So it is incredible to say the least thus far in the energy savings side....


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Looking closer at the picture, I like the wiring. They've pinned back the wiring so it's easy to change one of the boards and for better passive cooling. They've separated the various sections as to avoid having to change one large custom board. (power converter + inverter driver, capacitive dc smoothing, chokes, control board.) The driver and capacitors the the most likely to fail. Always wear safety glasses when opening that panel though... The capacitor vents are pointed at your face.
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks and yes i always wear Oakleys or Dewalt Safety glasses around these systems.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

I just noticed that your lineset goes down into the ground. Did you protect it with a sheath? 

I've used corrugated abs drain pipe before. (it cuts easily, and you can buy it already split, so you can wrap it after you lay the lineset.)

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> I just noticed that your lineset goes down into the ground. Did you protect it with a sheath?
> 
> I've used corrugated abs drain pipe before. (it cuts easily, and you can buy it already split, so you can wrap it after you lay the lineset.)
> 
> Cheers!


a sheath? It is protected with the armaflex insulation but no sheath that I am aware of.

Let me make a trip to home depot in the morning to see what i can find. The area is protected from elements though.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

The armaflex won't last long under ground

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> The armaflex won't last long under ground
> 
> Cheers!



I will run to homedepot and get a better solution and protect the lineset. Thanks 


On another note: I just upgraded from the Sman to the Iconnect and wow this setup is amazing. I need to post a pic here. I just need to put it on the system to insure pressures are good. My friend charged it with my Sman but at that time it was pouring so we left it as is. The system is cooling well and i am barely using energy compared to before so at this point i am more than excited with the results i am seeing.


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## Mb5602 (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks for your post! This is the exact unit I have been looking at also. I am interested in efficiency, quiet and serviceability. I have looked at the Carrier/ICP/Tempstar. The Rheem is just so much better if you ever have to replace the boards or service the unit in my opinion. I too have the Smann but was looking at getting the Iconnect.

Most people in my area just want to sell single stage. So I am thinking about taking the test for the EPA certification myself. You sound quite knowledgeable. Will you be doing the diagnostics if there is a problem down the road or will your friend be doing that?
Any update on performance would be appreciated.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

Mb5602 said:


> Thanks for your post! This is the exact unit I have been looking at also. I am interested in efficiency, quiet and serviceability. I have looked at the Carrier/ICP/Tempstar. The Rheem is just so much better if you ever have to replace the boards or service the unit in my opinion. I too have the Smann but was looking at getting the Iconnect.
> 
> Most people in my area just want to sell single stage. So I am thinking about taking the test for the EPA certification myself. You sound quite knowledgeable. Will you be doing the diagnostics if there is a problem down the road or will your friend be doing that?
> Any update on performance would be appreciated.




You are welcome. I have been super happy with this system. My last electric bills have been so low as i have ever seen in my house. I have lived in y house for 16 years and these are the lowest ones i have ever had. It is soo quiet i barely notice it is on. I have to actually walk up to the condenser to see if it is on. 

Trust me i made the mistake of buying single stages too and IMO the person or persons telling you not to get a dual stage or more has NO clue about the systems. For ex. i installed a new HP at one of my properties where my dad stays and i wish i would have put in 2 stage.

I sold ALL the Fieldpiece SMAN stuff and moved up to a ICONNECT with a Galaxy Tab and will not look back. It is the best money i have ever spent.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Now that you've had it for a season, what's your energy usage compared to previous, as a percentage. 

The only reason that I don't use the the imanifold set is that a tablet won't fair well falling off a roof, and my general maintenances can last for 8-10 hour days. Would kill the battery on a phone for sure. I use the testo. The imanifold has more options though.

Cheers!


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

LuisinFL said:


> Trust me i made the mistake of buying single stages too and IMO the person or persons telling you not to get a dual stage or more has NO clue about the systems. For ex. i installed a new HP at one of my properties where my dad stays and i wish i would have put in 2 stage.


I'm not sure I agree with that. I have a 2 stage and in the Summer time it's nice, but in the Winter I lock out the first stage and run her in high gear only. I have found the higher stage simply more efficient. You produce more heat for the buck. Granted I'm not in an area where humidity is all that high so defrosting isn't such a big deal.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Typically, you loose efficiency as you ramp down. 

You gain efficiency and comfort by not cycling often. 

You loose efficiency with the extra electrical conversations, but gain with the inherent efficiency of that type of motor. (net benefit is about 20%. You need the converter if you use that motor, they are all capable variable speed, whether it's used or not.)

In Bob's case, his heat pump is most efficient at high stage. 

With this Rheem, the EEV can be modulated to avoid frost on low speed. 

As for AC, high stage is still usually higher efficiency. 

The catch for either, is the higher that you can raise your suction pressure, while keeping your head pressure no higher then 160psi above suction (for R410A, the better your efficiency will be. Everything else will be in the efficiency of the motors. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

in theory there should be an efficiency gain on low - higher comporession ratio.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

*lower compression ratio. low compressor capacity + larger coils = high cop.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> *lower compression ratio. low compressor capacity + larger coils = high cop.


That doesn't account for the effects of low pressure drop across your TXV, and non-modulating fans.... 

Yes you're right, but only when you have control over the whole system like a minisplit or VRF. 

PS. FYI: Higher suction pressure makes a bigger difference then lower head pressure when talking about efficiency and compression ratio. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

All i know is that more efficient machines have substantially larger coils inside and out and the metering device sized for a lower compression ratio.

Add a txv or eev, ecm motors inside and out (at a huge increase in repair costs) and the seer can be bumped up a couple of extra points above 14.5 but it's mainly compression ratio.

I don't think the super high seer stuff is worth it for most cooling applications.

If one of those controller boards goes after warranty you can kiss several years of savings goodbye. And most of them will go bad after 10 years or so -> capacitors and other components wear out. Not practical to start repairing boards.

A contactor and couple of capacitors will always be cheaper to deal with than a board. that's really all u need.

Better to spend the money on insulation and exterior shading.

I do see an advantage in for heatpumps -> the low temp capacity of rheem's version is excellent. then it may be worth the cost.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> All i know is that more efficient machines have substantially larger coils inside and out
> .....


This is true until you look at ductless splits. They get poor EER ratings, but great SEER ratings. They are designed for the SEER ambient bucket conditions, not EER 80/90*, like those units with "larger coils". 



user_12345a said:


> ...
> If one of those controller boards goes after warranty you can kiss several years of savings goodbye. And most of them will go bad after 10 years or so -> capacitors and other components wear out. Not practical to start repairing boards....


Until they start to make hundreds of millions of the same boards. Eventually there will be some standardization. It's the only way to cut cost for the underdogs, and increase reliability. Unfortunately, many first adopters will bear the brunt of the curve. 

We'll be busy. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

^would be nice to see high capacity heatpumps with reasonable repair costs. could replace a lot of oil and electric resistance systems.

the Rheem's capacity and efficiency really is outstanding. 

i doubt we'll see any standardization. proprietary parts are a huge cash cow.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> ^would be nice to see high capacity heatpumps with reasonable repair costs. could replace a lot of oil and electric resistance systems.
> 
> the Rheem's capacity and efficiency really is outstanding.
> 
> i doubt we'll see any standardization. proprietary parts are a huge cash cow.


Not from the big boys any time soon. It'll come from a collection of underdogs. Some of those no name companies will be in there, and will be trying to make a name. 

Cheers!


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## Mb5602 (Oct 30, 2016)

LuisinFL said:


> My last electric bills have been so low as i have ever seen in my house. I have lived in y house for 16 years and these are the lowest ones i have ever had. It is soo quiet i barely notice it is on. I have to actually walk up to the condenser to see if it is on.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I am in the Fort Myers Florida area, what kind of humidity numbers are you able to achieve?
> ...


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Mb5602 said:


> LuisinFL said:
> 
> 
> > My last electric bills have been so low as i have ever seen in my house. I have lived in y house for 16 years and these are the lowest ones i have ever had. It is soo quiet i barely notice it is on. I have to actually walk up to the condenser to see if it is on.
> ...


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

Mb5602 said:


> LuisinFL said:
> 
> 
> > I repair all my electronics at the component level when possible.
> ...


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

Well, Super beat me to the bag again lol.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

bfletcher7 said:


> Well, Super beat me to the bag again lol.


Lol. Restless nights sometimes.... 

Cheers!


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## Mb5602 (Oct 30, 2016)

LuisinFL said:


> I have been super happy with this system.


From what I have read at lower humidity one can run a higher temperature and achieve the same comfort index.

Do you have any humidity numbers you can share with us? I was hoping for the low to mid 40's.

My background is in Automotive electronics. Often the logic or functional part of the electronics design is less than the protective circuitry to make it live in the automotive world. Many designers without experience would design for 14.5 volts. The reality was that you need to design for about 1.5 minutes at 26volts (jump starts by some rogue wrecker company's) 180 volts positive spike (alternator load dump) and -600 volt spikes (from relays AC clutches etc.)High temp, low temp, Emi, RFI etc. etc.

The potting material was a conformal coating rather than epoxy because the coefficient of thermal expansion. The epoxy would fracture glass diodes if used especially in the winter months up north and if the module was located in the engine compartment.

I am trying to track down what company actually designed the boards for the Rheem RP20 .... if Emmerson spec'd the design they know the environment well and they should be a solid design with low failure rates. I will update as I learn more.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Now that you've had it for a season, what's your energy usage compared to previous, as a percentage.
> 
> The only reason that I don't use the the imanifold set is that a tablet won't fair well falling off a roof, and my general maintenances can last for 8-10 hour days. Would kill the battery on a phone for sure. I use the testo. The imanifold has more options though.
> 
> Cheers!



It has been awesome. I can give you my password for my neurio if you want to see the Real time usage in statistics ... I don't mid. My electric bill has dropped substantially.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

Mb5602 said:


> From what I have read at lower humidity one can run a higher temperature and achieve the same comfort index.
> 
> Do you have any humidity numbers you can share with us? I was hoping for the low to mid 40's.
> 
> ...



You are correct. Wow you said 40. At this time my humidity set point is 50 and i have the thermostat at 78 degrees and it feels like my old 75. Crazy but it is true.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

LuisinFL said:


> It has been awesome. I can give you my password for my neurio if you want to see the Real time usage in statistics ... I don't mid. My electric bill has dropped substantially.


Neat. 

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Mb5602 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope that you never have to do a component repair. However, if you do, I'd love to see the results here. Not to many people can do this, so I'm certainly curious.
> ...


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> Neat.
> 
> Cheers!




So when it starts up it uses 600 watts and ramps up to 900 and then hovers at 1200 watts. Most of the time it stays their unless it is Very hot outside. At that point it will ramp up as needed. My old system was at 6500 watts every time the ac called to be on. So you can see the difference right away.


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> I just finished installing a 17seer unit. It had a ECM condenser fan. If expect the Goodman to have the same. It was bulky, and just barely fit inside the property line.
> 
> The condensing unit/ AH/ and thermostat will likely be all on the communication bus. It means that it's a bit harder to troubleshoot, and especially hard to find techs willing to work on it. Other then that, it's still all the same theory just sightly different implementation. Nothing ground breaking anymore.
> 
> Cheers!



I just installed a RP17 for a neighbor and have a question for you. When you checked pressures for SubCooling did you put the system in 2nd stage or 3rd stage? In the cover it says 2nd stage and on the manual it says in High. My Iconnect was going nuts today as the SubCooling was up to 22.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

LuisinFL said:


> I just installed a RP17 for a neighbor and have a question for you. When you checked pressures for SubCooling did you put the system in 2nd stage or 3rd stage? In the cover it says 2nd stage and on the manual it says in High. My Iconnect was going nuts today as the SubCooling was up to 22.


The 17seer unit was only 1 stage. 

Traditional subcooling and superheat guidelines are only good for when the system is running at 100%. No higher or lower. 

Some manufacturers may give charts for other capacities. 

Generally for these types of systems, you must calculate and weigh in the charge. 

Cheers!


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## LuisinFL (Jul 22, 2016)

supers05 said:


> The 17seer unit was only 1 stage.
> 
> Traditional subcooling and superheat guidelines are only good for when the system is running at 100%. No higher or lower.
> 
> ...




Thnaks i will call Rheem Tech support early next week since we are in Holiday. Merry Xmas to you and your family.


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