# Garage door problem :



## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

The springs are there to counterbalance the weight of the door. You should be able to easily open the door fully, or close it all the way, easily and without strain. If that's not the case then you risk frying the opener dragging it up, so that sounds like your first and biggest issue.

Depending on the specific opener type and design, the arm engages the track runner in various ways but it should be firm enough not to slip out. If the opener is deadlifting the whole weight of the door without springs balancing it then it can wear that attachment, so if it comes loose on its own that's a separate concern in itself.

Adjusting a garage door is not that technically difficult but you are dealing with a heavy moving object and strong springs under considerable tension. Your best bet honestly might be to get a door company to check it out rather than try and DIY and get injured or damage something. Check your area, frequently garage door companies will run spring specials to check/service/tuneup a door for minimal cost (until they sell you new parts or accessories of course). $50-$60 is a small price to pay to not hurt yourself, wreck your car or have to buy a new opener.


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## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

The opener should not pull the latch all the way to the motor housing, there should be a limit switch to stop it.

What he said. Disengage the door from the opener. You should be able to lift to mid travel, release it and it will stay in that postion. If it does not, the springs need to be adjusted or replace. If extension springs(are located next to the top part of the track, they are fairly easy to adjust. If torsion springs(over the top of the door opening on a shaft, these are dangerous to adjust if you are not familiar with them. If the door works as it should, the end (top) limit switch is bad, loose, or misadjusted.


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## BigD9 (Mar 10, 2011)

ThatDaveGuy said it all when he suggested that you get a door company to make the adjustments. A friend of mine who was very handy and owned a small construction/excavating company decided to adjust his garage door. Something happened ( he doesn't remember) and he was hit with the wrench and was knocked off the ladder causing enough broken bones in his arm and hand to require steel pins be placed in his arm and endure a cast covering hand and arm. He was off from work for 3 months! He still has another operation to fix his hand.

But that wasn't the worse part. He was married and she never let him forget what he did. 
Be safe.


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

Often, even if you don't do anything wrong you can get ghanked. A garage door that is out of balance or adjustment can have worn, loose, weakened parts that can break, pop out or come undone if you disturb in just the right way. People tend to be rather blithe when dealing with them but they are the largest moving object around the house (depending on your relatives) and store a deceptively large amount of energy in springs under tension. I've seen residential doors run amok and ruin cars, pierce hoods and doors, break rafters and actually have parts end up outside the garage (via openings you never knew were there before), and overwhelmingly the reason was because a guy said "Oh hell, I know what I'm doing!"


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## BigD9 (Mar 10, 2011)

> People tend to be rather blithe when dealing with them but they are the largest moving object around the house (depending on your relatives)...


:no::thumbup:




> I've seen residential doors run amok and ruin cars, pierce hoods and doors...


You should see what happens when a tractor with a roll bar that is 3 inches taller than the 16 foot wide door, attempts to back out of the garage. Not a pretty site. Please don't ask how I know.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

BigD9 said:


> :no::thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> You should see what happens when a tractor with a roll bar that is 3 inches taller than the 16 foot wide door, attempts to back out of the garage. Not a pretty site. Please don't ask how I know.


ummmm.... how did the tractor get IN the garage????

DM


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## BigD9 (Mar 10, 2011)

Well I'm told the fool lowered the ROPS (roll over protection system) bar and drove it inside to work on the tractor where it was nice and warm. The ROPS had to be raised back up to work on the 3 PT hitch area of the tractor and the fool forgot to lower the ROPS before backing out of the garage. Add insult to injury, the house and garage were only 3 months old at the time.

The fool told me when the ROPS impacted the raised garage door, the first thing he noticed were these rollers bouncing all over the place like hail, then almost immediately a loud sound and the door fell on top of the ROPS as well as the fools wife's minivan parked inside the garage. Thanks goodness I had.....I mean the fool had the ROPS raised or his head would really be smarting from that door impacting his noggin. 

Now 3 years after that event, the fools wife still says "is the ROPS bar lowered?" every time I back the van out of the garage.:bangin: Oh well, at my age I'll only have to listen to that for maybe 30 more years!


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I pity da fool.... :laughing:

DM


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## BigD9 (Mar 10, 2011)

Elevation 3,896 at the Battle Creek Airport? You in a Hot Air Balloon? Or was the "-" a mistake and you are in China?


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

that would be close.... 3,000 ft. above the airport... circling for the last 4 years..... they won't land and let me off the plane.
They said they'd be happy to open the door and let me out, but they're fresh out of parachutes.....

DM


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

I CAN lift it, the first few feet are easy, then it gets difficult. Once half the door gets past the curve of the track it is very easy to hold there. I'm betting on a spring too, just wanted to confirm before I use my only quarter to call someone who gives a hoot.

Thanks all.


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## BigD9 (Mar 10, 2011)

> I CAN lift it, the first few feet are easy, then it gets difficult. Once half the door gets past the curve of the track it is very easy to hold there.


It of course could be the springs, and probably is. But look at other areas too. Look at things like the tracts on each side of the door to see if they are parallel to each other - the same distance apart from each other. Could be one of the tracts is out of adjustment and the door is binding. Also look at the rollers and the shaft to see if they are lubricated. Are the rollers binding in one of the tracts? On mine, right where the vertical tract joins the curved tract there was a bent lip on the curved section. When the roller passed that bent place it would stick a bit and cause the door to shift and shutter. Do the rollers turn as the door is going up? Maybe one of the tracts is squeezed together binding one of the rollers. Make sure the hinges on each door section are in good shape and lubricated. Sounds like when the door is hinging going around the curve is when you are having your problems. Maybe one of the hinges is bent? Sticking? Loose?

You also mentioned that the "hitch" was popping open when the door arrived at its full open position. Un-hitch the door and open it. Does the door stop at a point before the door opener normally opens the to? Maybe the door is hitting a stop, but the opener is trying to pull the door past that stop. There is an adjustment for that.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Got a pro out there yesterday. He said the last installer (from out of town, they left their sticker by the button) did not use the proper springs, the cables are cutting into the rails which I did not notice when I first looked at it, and the door (wooden) is not in the greatest shape, although I think it would last a couple more years . . . .

He reccomended just replacing the door since everything else needs to be worked over, and I agree. Why fix all that other stuff and put a piece o' crap door back on it?

$2300 for 20' door, springs, and new rails. Opener is another 400 on top of this if needed.

Going to get some other quotes. :thumbup:


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, you had a 20' wooden door w/ extension springs? Be very glad you didn't tinker with it, that monster coulda eaten you.

Just out of curiosity, what brand of door is he trying to sell you for that $2300?


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

ThatDaveGuy said:


> Well, you had a 20' wooden door w/ extension springs? Be very glad you didn't tinker with it, that monster coulda eaten you.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what brand of door is he trying to sell you for that $2300?


When you start going overly wide, the door prices go up very quickly. That price does not sound out of line if it is a good quality steel insulated door. 20' is very wide for a residential door. Going from 16' to 18' double the cost of the door. It's cheaper to go higher than wider.
Mike Hawkins


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

firehawkmph said:


> When you start going overly wide, the door prices go up very quickly. That price does not sound out of line if it is a good quality steel insulated door. 20' is very wide for a residential door. Going from 16' to 18' double the cost of the door. It's cheaper to go higher than wider.
> Mike Hawkins


Exactly, it is not out-of-line for a good quality door, but there are oversized residentials made that are just stretched versions of the regular 16's, some by companies whose regular product is scraddy to start with. The issue with any of them is the flexing of those long sections when the door is up, steel doors tend to sag, necessitating addon braces, which means more weight/section when horizontal. 

At that price I'd have to check commercial door prices (often more bang for the buck since residentials get "dressed up" with textures, lights, aesthetic addons that jack the price up). 20' is a lot of door, I have to wonder if it's necessary, a center pillar and 2- 9's would be less expensive and far more stable and secure just for example.

Alan did the smart thing by getting a professional opinion, but there can be huge markups in that line (I know, they paid my bills for years :laughing. If he's gonna fix it, he needs to fix it right and not just a "for now" fix that has him posting here again in a couple of years.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

ThatDaveGuy said:


> Well, you had a 20' wooden door w/ extension springs? Be very glad you didn't tinker with it, that monster coulda eaten you.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what brand of door is he trying to sell you for that $2300?


I'm not sure I Didn't talk to the guy, my wife did. I'll ask her. Why do you ask, does it seem high? New rails, springs, door, installed for 2300.


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

Alan said:


> I'm not sure I Didn't talk to the guy, my wife did. I'll ask her. Why do you ask, does it seem high? New rails, springs, door, installed for 2300.


Curious more than anything but construction quality varies wildly when it comes to garage doors. There are some I literally wouldn't take for free, and I've seen doors that were trash in less than a year. Like everything, going cheap can be the most expensive option in the long run. That's a very large door for something non-commercial so you want it right.

Again, just 'cuz I'm curious, did you take any pics of your current one?


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

ThatDaveGuy said:


> Curious more than anything but construction quality varies wildly when it comes to garage doors. There are some I literally wouldn't take for free, and I've seen doors that were trash in less than a year. Like everything, going cheap can be the most expensive option in the long run. That's a very large door for something non-commercial so you want it right.
> 
> Again, just 'cuz I'm curious, did you take any pics of your current one?


No pictures at the moment. Any advice on brands to stay away from?

Garage door guy didn't give anything in writing yet and didn't specify a brand. Getting a 2nd quote on Monday from another company.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

ThatDaveGuy said:


> I have to wonder if it's necessary, a center pillar and 2- 9's would be less expensive and far more stable and secure just for example.


I didn't really think of that, could I get a garage door guy to put a 2' section of wall in the middle, or would I have to get someone else to come do it? It's not a matter of ability, it's a timing thing. I just don't have the time to screw with it.

Edit : You'd have to factor in the price of at least one opener into the cost of 2 doors, if not two openers so that they match.


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

Alan said:


> I didn't really think of that, could I get a garage door guy to put a 2' section of wall in the middle, or would I have to get someone else to come do it? It's not a matter of ability, it's a timing thing. I just don't have the time to screw with it.
> 
> Edit : You'd have to factor in the price of at least one opener into the cost of 2 doors, if not two openers so that they match.


I wouldn't badmouth anyone's product, but I do know a guy that had a Clopay door in his truck, when he stopped to grab a bite someone broke in and left two more Clopays in the back. :laughing:

2-9's was really just a random-haven't had enough coffee yet- thought, not a recommendation, but doing that sort of thing is actually fairly common w/ residential door service, depending on the specific company used. I did a ton of work in Washington DC, and I'd say 70% required some alteration of the opening, mainly because they have old carriage houses which used narrower/taller openings. The point was that a 20' door is very different from a 16', 25% wider sections essentially made the same way. It takes a lot to keep that straight and rigid as it tracks to the horizontal when opening.

Even easier, have it built in 2' on either side and get a 16' w/ one opener :thumbup:

I mentioned commercials, and a lot of people don't like their aesthetics because they want those nice looking stile and panel layouts, but typical commercial doors have horizontal ribs that make a huge difference structurally whereas the flat stile stampings on res act like hinge points when the sections are horizontal, plus tracks, hinges, hardware,etc. are generally heavier gauge material on a comm.

Whatever you decide go with torsion springs.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

ThatDaveGuy said:


> I wouldn't badmouth anyone's product, but I do know a guy that had a Clopay door in his truck, when he stopped to grab a bite someone broke in and left two more Clopays in the back. :laughing:
> 
> 2-9's was really just a random-haven't had enough coffee yet- thought, not a recommendation, but doing that sort of thing is actually fairly common w/ residential door service, depending on the specific company used. I did a ton of work in Washington DC, and I'd say 70% required some alteration of the opening, mainly because they have old carriage houses which used narrower/taller openings. The point was that a 20' door is very different from a 16', 25% wider sections essentially made the same way. It takes a lot to keep that straight and rigid as it tracks to the horizontal when opening.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the insight, I really appreciate it.:thumbsup:


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Found the paperwork he left behind yesterday, it's a Wayne Dalton door.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Alan,
Not a big wayne dalton fan. They do make various lines of doors from really lightweight junk to commercial doors that aren't bad. It depends which one you are getting. As a general rule, I would look for something better. As talked about earlier, It probably would be cheaper for you to have a carpenter frame in each side 2' and go with a standard 16' x 7' door. A good quality 16' door can be had for $1000 or less.
Mike Hawkins


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

There are quite a few "brands" of garage doors but actually very few residentials that anything more than just barely enough to hang in an opening. There's nowhere near the money in them so if they can save pennies on lighter gauge steel, or just gluing them together w/ LiquidNails, then they do. A few stock sizes of mix-n-match springs that are "close enough" is cheaper than the right ones. Plastic bushings are cheaper than bearings. Like anything else, you get what you pay for and the cheapest one usually ends up costing the most in the long run.

Personally, (remembering that free advice is worth what you paid for it), I wouldn't pony up $2700 on a WayneDalton w/ whatever opener they use (Genie? _<shudder>_). I know what I'd choose but I'm not sure it's considered kosher here to advocate a particular brand of product.


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