# Cracks on spare tire, keep or replace?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Might be good as a spare, I would not want it for everyday driving. 
There will be a date code on it and there is an age when they are passed the replace by date.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Since it's a full size tire, I would replace it with the least worn one off the car the next time you buy new tires.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Might be good as a spare, I would not want it for everyday driving.
> There will be a date code on it and there is an age when they are passed the replace by date.


Thanks!

The date code on the spare appears to be 3206, and if I’m understanding this correctly that means the 32nd week of 2006. My other 3 tires on the car, which I bought in Nov of 2017, have date codes of 2415 (2x) & 2615, which seems a bit odd that I’d be sold tires a year and a half past their date code.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Any port in a storm, as long as it holds air I would keep it, remembering that it is only for getting to a tire shop or home without a lot of traveling.
Considering some cars don't even come with a spare, I think you are ahead of the game.

As stick/shift says... next time getting tires, keep a better one as a spare.

OR, for $40 ish you can go to wally world and get a new tire just to use as a spare.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Waterfall-Eco-Dynamic-185-65R14-86-H-Tire/178666270


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The date code on the spare appears to be 3206, and if I’m understanding this correctly that means the 32nd week of 2006. My other 3 tires on the car, which I bought in Nov of 2017, have date codes of 2415 (2x) & 2615, which seems a bit odd that I’d be sold tires a year and a half past their date code.


The date code is when they are made. I think 6 or 8 years is considered passed the safe age of tires. 
How Old - and Dangerous - Are Your Tires? | Edmunds


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

rubber deteriorates over time weather you use the tires or not,

tires should be replaced after 6 years regardless of how much tread is left


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

Cracks and a date code from 2006? My tire shop will not touch a tire more than 6 years old other than for replacement. You want to actually drive on a tire with cracks that is 14 years old?


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

stick\shift said:


> Since it's a full size tire, I would replace it with the least worn one off the car the next time you buy new tires.





Steve2444 said:


> Any port in a storm, as long as it holds air I would keep it, remembering that it is only for getting to a tire shop or home without a lot of traveling.
> Considering some cars don't even come with a spare, I think you are ahead of the game.
> 
> As stick/shift says... next time getting tires, keep a better one as a spare.
> ...


Thanks!

I bought the last 4 tires at Costco, and they found a nail in the side wall of one yesterday, but they no longer carry 14" tires, let alone the same tire (Michelin Defender 185/65R14 86T ), which apparently has been discontinued, so I have to look elsewhere, if I want to replace just the one with the same tire. I'll still get a proration credit from Costco on one new tire bought elsewhere and it should be pretty good, since I've only put about 10,000 miles on the tires. That said, at least one of the remaining 3 original tires did get quite a bit of uneven wear, while I was saving up for a power steering rack replacement, which took longer than expected.

Therefore, I'm considering the following options, on all of which I'd get a proration credit from Costco for one tire:
1) I found the same Michelin available locally, but only with the H speed rating not T, like my original tires; it costs $111.99 + installation = $135.48.*
2) If it's best to replace the spare, I could get 2 of the Michelin's, but again I'd be mixing speed ratings, costing $111.99 ea + installation = $270.96.*
3) I could get 3 new Michelin's, also replacing the tire that got quite a bit of uneven wear, (mixing speed ratings) $111.99 ea + installation = $406.44.**
4) I also found $100 off, if I buy 4 new tires, where I can get a similar tire (General Altimax RT43), costing $89.99 ea + installation - $100 off = $339.92.

*Options 1 & 2 would most likely allow me to keep Costco road hazard warranty coverage, until it expires in November as well as free lifetime maintenance.
**Option 3 is the least cost effective, so if I were going to considering it, I'd just go with option 4.

That said, what would you do?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> I have look elsewhere, if I want to replace just the one with the same tire.


You can usually find individual used tires of the same model and size on Ebay. (be careful - I found out the hard way that same size tires from different manufacturers aren't always actually the same size) Sometimes, you can even find one with about the same amount of tread as the ones you have.

If your car is 4WD or AWD, all 4 will need to be the very close to the same size. If it's FWD, some variation in size between the 2 on the back is of little consequence.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I noticed you said they're Michelin Defender tires. A word of caution: the ice and snow traction goes to crap in a hurry after the tread is about halfway gone. OTOH, the General Altimax RT43 has excellent ice & snow traction, and is a good tire otherwise, as well.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

On a car used primarily for local trips I would keep it. For a car that I use for interstate driving far from home I would replace it with a low cost Walmart new tire. Think about when you have to use it. Local driving on it, ok. High speed driving far from home, no.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Cracks in a tire mean the rubber is breaking down. 
Use it in a pinch on your way to the tire shop.....nothing else.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

A lot of tire shops and some indy garages often keep 'one-offs' around; might be worth a check for a newer one in decent shape.

I'm a fan of matching all four - it allows for rotation. I wouldn't worry much about the different speed ratings; the difference between H and T is 18mph.









Tire Speed Rating | Goodyear Tires Canada


Get the information you need from our Tire Speed Rating Chart to purchase tires with a speed rating that is best suited for your vehicle.




www.goodyear.ca


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Might be good as a spare, I would not want it for everyday driving.
> There will be a date code on it and there is an age when they are passed the replace by date.


Neal, there is a manufactured date (week .year), but I never seen a replace by date. Where is it?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

pumpkin11 said:


> rubber deteriorates over time weather you use the tires or not,
> 
> tires should be replaced after 6 years regardless of how much tread is left


Maybe 6 years absolute time limit is not so accurate. If a car is kept out of the sun much of its life (like in a garage mostly), can last even 10+ years. I have one of those. No cracks anywhere, always garage kept. Its not just oxygen that destroys rubber, the sun's rays are way worse. My Car is a 2009. Much tire judgement is subjective. Thats the problem. But if you want to be safest, yeah, go ahead and throw them out and buy new.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Another big factor is how fast is your normal velocity driving. Wanna do 85 like so many others on I4 toward Orlando? Forget old tires. But happy doing a max of 55 driving homwe from a 15 minute distance from work? Old tires not so dangerous. I did that. Velocity generates much heat from friction against the asphalt and tire blowout becomes more of a reality. Slower on the right lane, not so shameful. Let the Judah Ben Hurs pass you out


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

papereater said:


> Neal, there is a manufactured date (week .year), but I never seen a replace by date. Where is it?


Just add 6 years to that date.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

I've always been told 5 years, but I see no problem with 6 being the number.

Getting tires that have sat on a shelf somewhere, it can easily happen for someone to get tires that actually are 1, 2, or even more years old, because no one looks at the date codes (for sure not a dealer that has some old stock on a shelf, or a supplier in the position).

Not surprising that most people have no idea about the date codes.

Check with Tire Rack. They may have the best deal, and they will ship directly to a tire shop, who will for a fee, mount and balance. Besides, a tire shop will be VERY open to selling an alignment (which you should get) while you're there..


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## FM3 (Aug 12, 2019)

a1481155 said:


> That said, what would you do?


The tire in the first post already looks bad. Not much point in keeping it as a spare if when I need a spare it will look even worse. It already can't be trusted. 

For a spare, I'd get a cheap used tire from a place or private seller that sells used tires. And then factor in the cost of having it mounted if you can't mount it yourself. The only main factor that otherwise might come into play is if I can get a deal on multiple tires along with mounting.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> You can usually find individual used tires of the same model and size on Ebay. (be careful - I found out the hard way that same size tires from different manufacturers aren't always actually the same size) Sometimes, you can even find one with about the same amount of tread as the ones you have.
> 
> If your car is 4WD or AWD, all 4 will need to be the very close to the same size. If it's FWD, some variation in size between the 2 on the back is of little consequence.





Steve2444 said:


> Any port in a storm, as long as it holds air I would keep it, remembering that it is only for getting to a tire shop or home without a lot of traveling...
> 
> As stick/shift says... next time getting tires, keep a better one as a spare.
> 
> ...





Old Thomas said:


> On a car used primarily for local trips I would keep it. For a car that I use for interstate driving far from home I would replace it with a low cost Walmart new tire. Think about when you have to use it. Local driving on it, ok. High speed driving far from home, no.





lenaitch said:


> A lot of tire shops and some indy garages often keep 'one-offs' around; might be worth a check for a newer one in decent shape.
> 
> I'm a fan of matching all four - it allows for rotation. I wouldn't worry much about the different speed ratings; the difference between H and T is 18mph.
> 
> ...





Missouri Bound said:


> Cracks in a tire mean the rubber is breaking down.
> Use it in a pinch on your way to the tire shop.....nothing else.


I don't necessarily hold to the "Any port in the storm" notion, so I'm leaning towards replacing the spare, for which I might consider a less expensive tire from Wally World, tire shops and some indy garages, but probably not ebay. That said, if I end up going with option 4 and replacing all four tires, I'll just use the best of those as my new spare.

As for whether my car is 4WD, AWD, FWD, I have no idea. FWIW, it's a '96 Honda Civic EX 4Dr Sedan.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

ktkelly said:


> I've always been told 5 years, but I see no problem with 6 being the number.


My tire shop won't repair or mount tires older than 10 years, regardless of how it looks. I don't know what they'd do if I asked them to mount one that was cracked like that.

I don't think I'd trust it as a regular tire to drive on at interstate speeds, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a spare I wasn't going run above 50mph on.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> As for whether my car is 4WD, AWD, FWD, I have no idea. FWIW, it's a '96 Honda Civic EX 4Dr Sedan.


Front wheel drive (FWD), so the front tires need to match. The back ones should be close, just for handling reasons, but don't have to match exactly.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

ktkelly said:


> I've always been told 5 years, but I see no problem with 6 being the number.
> 
> Getting tires that have sat on a shelf somewhere, it can easily happen for someone to get tires that actually are 1, 2, or even more years old, because no one looks at the date codes (for sure not a dealer that has some old stock on a shelf, or a supplier in the position).
> 
> ...


Yeah, sad to admit that I'm one of those who had no idea to look at date codes.

I checked with Tire Rack, they don't have the Michelin's either but I can get the General AltiMAX RT43. They also don't price match so they'd cost $93.99 ea + $100 (Tire Rack Mobile Tire Installation*) = $375.96. *Or as you said, ship directly to a tire shop, who will for a fee, mount and balance. FWIW, I have lifetime balance, rotate and alignment with Firestone.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

papereater said:


> Neal, there is a manufactured date (week .year), but I never seen a replace by date. *Where is it?*


There isn't one. Why not? Probably because they are not required to. Probably some of the oldest tires on the road are household utility trailers - most of them sit more than they are used.

I've always checked the date when I get new tires and have never had any more than a few months old, but I always by from a reputable tire shop. If nothing else, I don't want to help somebody get rid of old stock. Last summer I bought tires online for my motorcycle - first time I had ever done that, and was happy to find them only a few months old as well.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> They also don't price match so they'd cost $93.99 ea + $100 (Tire Rack Mobile Tire Installation*) = $375.96. *Or as you said, ship directly to a tire shop, who will for a fee, mount and balance.


Discount Tire (at least the one I go to) will price match anyone - Tire Rack, Ebay, Amazon, Walmart, TireBuyer, etc. They'd probably even match Sam's or Costco, but I've never found the best price on the tires I wanted at either one, anyway.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Best to buy two new tires, one to replace the punctured tire and one to replace the cracked spare, except have both new tires put on regular rims and one of the existing tires goes on the spare rim if the extra mountings and rim changes do not cost more.

Other questions to ponder:

* Are you able/willing to use a different looking spare rim as a regular rim because it cost less for one of the new tires to end up on that rim?

* Does the tread wear warranty pro-ration benefit diminish or vanish when you find and select replacement tires that are on sale?

* How long does it take to order and receive your first choice tires (including the store they come from) versus your second choice tires?

* If you would really want a third or fifth tire, will a discount that would apply to two or four tires be courtesy-ily (courteously?) or otherwise extended to the last tire?

* Would the tread wear warranty be applied to a tire that was replaced ahead of time to maintain a matched pair or foursome?

* Will your favorite mechanic or shop do a custom tire rotation you specify to optimize when all four tires are not the same or you want to include the spare in the rotaiton?


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## b.rooster4321 (Apr 22, 2020)

Option 4 is best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

AllanJ said:


> Best to buy two new tires, one to replace the punctured tire and one to replace the cracked spare, except have both new tires put on regular rims and one of the existing tires goes on the spare rim if the extra mountings and rim changes do not cost more.
> 
> Other questions to ponder:
> 
> * Are you able/willing to use a different looking spare rim as a regular rim because it cost less for one of the new tires to end up on that rim?


This.

Based on the photo, since the "spare" wheel is a steelie with a worn plastic wheel cover, I speculate that all five wheels are all steel wheels, and the OP swapped the wheel cover off the wheel with the puncture, and onto the spare. So hopefully there's no need to swap the "good" tire off its wheel—just have the cracked spare replaced, along with the puncture, and relegate the "good" tire to spare duty.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

papereater said:


> Another big factor is how fast is your normal velocity driving. Wanna do 85 like so many others on I4 toward Orlando? Forget old tires. But happy doing a max of 55 driving homwe from a 15 minute distance from work? Old tires not so dangerous. I did that. Velocity generates much heat from friction against the asphalt and tire blowout becomes more of a reality. Slower on the right lane, not so shameful. Let the Judah Ben Hurs pass you out


true i guess,

the word "dangerous" can be a subjective term, what is extremely dangerous to one person, might be not so much to another person,

for me personally, i don't take any risks with tires, i always lean toward the side of caution (and very quickly),

a blowout can be deadly,

i also religiously check my tire pressures, at the very LEAST once a week,

an under inflated tire is more prone to blowing out,

tire pressures vary with the weather (ambient temperatures), so even if your tires don't leak, it's still important to check them, as pressure can go up or down depending on ambient temperature,


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

AllanJ said:


> Best to buy two new tires, one to replace the punctured tire and one to replace the cracked spare, except have both new tires put on regular rims and one of the existing tires goes on the spare rim if the extra mountings and rim changes do not cost more.
> 
> Other questions to ponder:
> 
> ...





huesmann said:


> This.
> 
> Based on the photo, since the "spare" wheel is a steelie with a worn plastic wheel cover, I speculate that all five wheels are all steel wheels, and the OP swapped the wheel cover off the wheel with the puncture, and onto the spare. So hopefully there's no need to swap the "good" tire off its wheel—just have the cracked spare replaced, along with the puncture, and relegate the "good" tire to spare duty.


Thanks!

It's really coming down to either buying the 2 of the same tires that I currently have on the car (Michelin Defender with T speed rating, 10,000 miles on them & date codes 2415 & 2615), but the new Michelin’s have an H speed rating, vs buying the 4 General's Altimax RT43 with T speed rating.

That said, I just called the dealer with Michelin's and they could actually do a little better on the price, if I go in. I added each dealer's optional road hazard warranty, for further comparison...

2 Michelin @ $106.99 ea + $50.00 (installation w/ TPMS) + $27.00 (Lifetime Road Hazard) = $290.98.

4 General @ $89.99 ea + $67.96 (install. no TPMS) + $59.51 (1 yr Road Hazard) - $100 = $387.43


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

For less than $100 difference, I'd opt for the 4 tires. Of course, I'd prefer the Altimax tires anyway, for the better ice & snow performance.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> For less than $100 difference, I'd opt for the 4 tires. Of course, I'd prefer the Altimax tires anyway, for the better ice & snow performance.


Thanks!

Ice & snow are not something that I encounter.

That said, in considering buying the 2 new Michelin’s, to mix with my existing Michelin’s, I must think about something we’ve discussed here; although my existing Michelin’s only have 10,000 miles on them, their date codes are 2415 & 2615.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> Ice & snow are not something that I encounter.


If you *never* encounter those conditions, you should consider summer/performance tires, rather than the all-season type.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> For less than $100 difference, I'd opt for the 4 tires. Of course, I'd prefer the Altimax tires anyway, for the better ice & snow performance.


I'm with you here—if the spare tire is the same age as the other four, the others may not be far behind in the cracking department. However,


HotRodx10 said:


> If you *never* encounter those conditions, you should consider summer/performance tires, rather than the all-season type.


The OP has 185/65R14s (assuming the spare and regular tires are all the same). That is actually a size that's extremely hard—if not impossible—to find in a summer performance tire; the best he could do would be an "all-season performance" tire, and IDK that there's much difference between "all-season" and "all-season performance" at this point.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> If you *never* encounter those conditions, you should consider summer/performance tires, rather than the all-season type.


I'd never say *never*, but I've had the tires currently on my car since 2017, and they have not encountered ice or snow, yet. It could happen, but only if I travel to where those conditions occur, which is not impossible but is rare.



huesmann said:


> I'm with you here—if the spare tire is the same age as the other four, the others may not be far behind in the cracking department. However,
> 
> The OP has 185/65R14s (assuming the spare and regular tires are all the same). That is actually a size that's extremely hard—if not impossible—to find in a summer performance tire; the best he could do would be an "all-season performance" tire, and IDK that there's much difference between "all-season" and "all-season performance" at this point.


Correct, all of my tires. including the spare, are 185/65R14s. The date code on the spare is 3206, and my other 3 tires have date codes of 2415 (2x) & 2615, which if going by age alone, some might say that it's also time to replace, BUT they only have 10,000 miles on them, sooo...???

That said, I don't necessarily like the thought of mixing two 7 year old tires with two new tires, or mixing brands; and if I buy the 2 new Michelin Defender's that are the same tires on my car, which have been discontinued (at least in 185/65/R14), then obviously the existing tires will need to be replaced much sooner; at which point, I'd be in a position to have to mix them with either similar Michelins or another brand.

As for finding summer performance in 185/65/R14s, agreed, I didn't have much luck. And when I use my "go to" Consumer Reports, the only "summer" tires that they rate are "Ultra high performance summer," non of which are 185/65/R14s.


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## FM3 (Aug 12, 2019)

The only reason I can think of to keep the same brand of tires is like some people said that different manufacturers may actually make different size tires even though they are labeled the same size. But for a non-AWD car, like a Honda Civic, even that would only matter for the fronts, not all four.

Even for AWD cars, most nowadays are 2wd then the AWD kicks in only briefly. Subaru Outback is one of the main ones that require more careful tire sameness because it has full-time AWD and full-time AWD may not particularly like non-same tire sizes.

Normally, I don't really care about age of a tire because being parked outside in the sun has more effect than age. If a tire looks good, I'd probably use it. I wouldn't be concerned at all about having 2017 or so tires on a car as long as they look good. 2017 tires may look pretty bad if the car is parked outside a lot. 

Someone asked me to look at their car after a fender-bender. I told them it was still drivable with the pushed-in fender, but I actually would avoid driving it due to the cracks on all four tires. It's a 2015 car, but it's always been parked outside.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

The tire and car makers have been warning about old tires since at least the 1990s. They tightened up there warnings during/after the Ford Explorer rollover lawsuit around 2000.
This is the Chrysler warning from 2006.
"Tires and spare tire should be replaced after six years, regardless of the remaining tread. Failure to follow this warning can result in sudden tire failure. You could lose control and have an accident resulting in serious injury or death."
Basically, it says if you have a old tire problem, it’s on you. Don’t sue us.

If you want more info, here is a good collection of info on the old tire problems. It was prepared for an NTSB tire safety symposium in 2014.


https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2014_Tire_Safety_SYM_Panel_4b_Kane.pdf


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> IDK that there's much difference between "all-season" and "all-season performance" at this point.


Not really - mostly just a marketing designation.


huesmann said:


> The OP has 185/65R14s (assuming the spare and regular tires are all the same). That is actually a size that's extremely hard—if not impossible—to find in a summer performance tire


Not surprising. I don't really pay attention to what's available in summer tires, or 14's, for that matter, since I've never had a vehicle with 14's, and the only one I ever put summer tires on was my Metro (I ran 'summer wheels' and 'winter wheels' for a while). The offerings in summer tires are generally more limited than the all-season just due to demand being more limited.

There are also a couple alternate sizes that have very similar diameter to the 185/65 - 175/70, 205/60, or 215/55. As long as they're kept paired up, having different sizes on the front than on the back won't matter.



Oso954 said:


> They tightened up there warnings during/after the Ford Explorer rollover lawsuit around 2000.


That was probably their excuse, but I believe the tire failure on the Explorers were related to the OE tires having inadequate load carrying capacity.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

HotRodx10 said:


> Not really - mostly just a marketing designation.
> 
> Not surprising. I don't really pay attention to what's available in summer tires, or 14's, for that matter, since I've never had a vehicle with 14's, and the only one I ever put summer tires on was my Metro (I ran 'summer wheels' and 'winter wheels' for a while). The offerings in summer tires are generally more limited than the all-season just due to demand being more limited.
> 
> ...


If anything, "performance" tires may have lower tread life, and probably really marginal traction on less than ideal road conditions, which it sounds like the OP won't encounter. Higher speed ratings I pretty much overstated since they involve upper limits most people will never approach.

I was going to suggest different aspect ratios earlier to match OEM diameters. On some vehicles you have to consider wheel offset so you don't run into conflicts with other vehicle parts. Any decent tire shop should have the tables for that.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

lenaitch said:


> On some vehicles you have to consider wheel offset so you don't run into conflicts with other vehicle parts. Any decent tire shop should have the tables for that.


On most vehicles, you'd have to go extremely wide to encounter a clearance issue, and usually the rim width would be the limiting factor. It appears there are 3 possible rim widths for that year Civic - 5",5.5", and 6". 185 is the max width for the 5", 195 for the 5.5" and 205 for the 6".


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

FM3 said:


> Normally, I don't really care about age of a tire because being parked outside in the sun has more effect than age...
> 
> I wouldn't be concerned at all about having 2017 or so tires on a car as long as they look good. 2017 tires may look pretty bad if the car is parked outside a lot.


FWIW, the tires on the car have 2015 date codes, but were bought in 2017, and they’ve been outside in the southern most US sun since. That said, they don’t look bad and only have 10,000 miles on them.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

FM3 said:


> Even for AWD cars, most nowadays are 2wd then the AWD kicks in only briefly. Subaru Outback is one of the main ones that require more careful tire sameness because it has full-time AWD and full-time AWD may not particularly like non-same tire sizes.


It's not just AWD you need to worry about when mixing and matching tire heights. ABS also may freak out if the different between rotational distance (circumference) is beyond a certain percentage.


HotRodx10 said:


> There are also a couple alternate sizes that have very similar diameter to the 185/65 - 175/70, 205/60, or 215/55. As long as they're kept paired up, having different sizes on the front than on the back won't matter.


Not a problem (as the OP indicates desire to replace all four tires at once), but if replacing only two tires, changing width makes rotation an issue, as you will be changing the amount of grip front and rear. Although most drivers won't notice a difference. And it doesn't sound like the OP has been rotating anyway—with 5 wheels the spare should be in the rotation.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> It's not just AWD you need to worry about when mixing and matching tire heights. ABS also may freak out if the different between rotational distance (circumference) is beyond a certain percentage.


The height difference of the alternate sizes I mentioned is less than 3 mm, well within the range between new tires and worn tires of the same model and size, and I doubt the WSS monitoring is sensitive enough to be thrown off by a difference in diameter of less than 1%.



huesmann said:


> ...as you will be changing the amount of grip front and rear. Although most drivers won't notice a difference.


For emergency braking, where the internal shear strength of the tire's rubber is exceeded (you're leaving rubber on the road) there would a small difference in stopping power due to the change in contact area. The effect would be small, however; likely less than the variations due to the rubber compound and air pressure between different tires. If the OP is concerned about that 6% difference in stopping distance for that very unlikely scenario, then going narrower for the front tires might be out of consideration. OTOH, if that is a consideration, then there is an advantage to going wider, if possible.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

huesmann said:


> Not a problem (as the OP indicates desire to replace all four tires at once), but if replacing only two tires, changing width makes rotation an issue, as you will be changing the amount of grip front and rear. Although most drivers won't notice a difference. And it doesn't sound like the OP has been rotating anyway—with 5 wheels the spare should be in the rotation.


I have been rotating, but have not included the spare. And as stated earlier, I had to delay my last rotation longer than usual, so at least one of the three remaining “good” tires got a bit of uneven wear.

And TBH, I’m still on fence, as to whether or not to replace all four tires at once, and I’d appreciate more feedback on replacing two with the same Michelin’s that have been discontinued, which I found two of with an H speed rating to mix with two that have a T speed rating on the car) or replacing all four with the new General’s (86T).

2 Michelin Defender (86H) @ $106.99 ea + $50.00 (installation) + $27.00 (Lifetime Road Hazard) = $290.98.

4 General Altimax RT43 @ $89.99 ea + $67.96 (installation) + $59.51 (1 yr Road Hazard) - $100 = $387.43


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Don't obsess over the speed ratings. Unless you are a street racer, the maximum speeds of other than the very low categories are in the range that you likely never see. I'll bet that if you checked the tire sticker (driver's door post or perhaps on glove box door), the OEM spec was probably 'S'.





__





NTB - Tires & Routine Auto Maintenance







www.tireamerica.com


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> Don't obsess over the speed ratings. Unless you are a street racer, the maximum speeds of other than the very low categories are in the range that you likely never see. I'll bet that if you checked the tire sticker (driver's door post or perhaps on glove box door), the OEM spec was probably 'S'.


Actually, I just did check the OEM spec and you’re absolutely right “S”.

My concerns are more of mixing H with T and mixing two new tires with two that have 2015 date codes, yet only 10,000 miles on them and don’t look bad; as well as mixing brands down the road; if I buy the 2 new Michelin then most likely the existing Michelin’s will need to be replaced much sooner; and since they’re discontinued, I'd be in a position to have to mix them with either similar Michelins or another brand.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> s well as mixing brands down the road; if I buy the 2 new Michelin then most likely the existing Michelin’s will need to be replaced much sooner;


Not necessarily. If you keep the new ones on the front, they'll probably all need replaced at about the same time. Tires generally wear down quite a bit faster on the front; for my vehicles, usually about twice as fast. In 4 years, the existing ones will be over 10 years old, so the should be replaced due to age, and the new ones will likely be low enough on the tread to replace, also.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> The height difference of the alternate sizes I mentioned is less than 3 mm, well within the range between new tires and worn tires of the same model and size, and I doubt the WSS monitoring is sensitive enough to be thrown off by a difference in diameter of less than 1%.


I wasn't responding to _your_ post regarding size difference, I was responding to FM3's regarding picky AWD systems, to mention that staggering tire sizes can also freak ABS systems. I'm well aware that you can retain close to the same circumference by mixing and matching section width and AR. But if you don't do it carefully, you can end up with issues.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> I wasn't responding to _your_ post regarding size difference, I was responding to FM3's regarding picky AWD systems, to mention that staggering tire sizes can also freak ABS systems.


Ahh...Yeah, you could be right, especially if the sizes are different by more than the variation due to wear.


huesmann said:


> I'm well aware that you can retain close to the same circumference by mixing and matching section width and AR. But if you don't do it carefully, you can end up with issues.


Agreed, and even if you keep them all the same size, but it's different than the OE, it can throw off the speedometer/odometer readings. 

Oddly enough though, I had to bump up a series at the same width (from the OE of 215/65 to 215/70) on my '08 Sienna, to get the speedometer to read correctly. Btw, I made that change in pairs (I have 215/70 on the front, but still running 215/65 on the back) and haven't had any issues with ABS or anything else.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

OK, well so much for that...

The good news is, I got $100.50 credit back from Costco on the punctured tire.
The bad news is:

1) The dealer with the $100 instant savings on 4 new tires, not only can't get the Michelin Defender T+H, but can't get the General Altimax RT43, either. They said for 185/65/R14 they have or can order the following:
a) Aspen GT-AS $42.99, which they pushed and said are comparable to the General's. (doesn't qualify for $100 off).
b) Firestone All Season $86.99, only other 185/65/R24 tire rated by Consumer Reports (61), 6 & 5 points below Defender & RT43. (doesn't qualify for $100 off).
c) Goodyear Assurance AS $102.99 (-$100 instant savings)

2) The dealer with the 2 Michelin Defender's can't sell them, because their date codes are from 2017. They were able to order 4 more, BUT their date codes are from 2019. They also have the Goodyear Assurance AS $94.99 (-$100 mail-in rebate). 

That said, how would the 2019 date code affect your buying decision?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

On Tirerack, the Goodyear Assurance gets very poor ratings, but the Kumho Solus TA11 and Hankook Kinergy ST get good ratings (for everything except snow & ice). The Defender gets high marks, too, of course. A few others to consider are in Tirerack's Grand Touring Category (if you want to see the others I mentioned, find the "change category" button)


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> On Tirerack, the Goodyear Assurance gets very poor ratings, but the Kumho Solus TA11 and Hankook Kinergy ST get good ratings (for everything except snow & ice). The Defender gets high marks, too, of course. A few others to consider are in Tirerack's Grand Touring Category (if you want to see the others I mentioned, find the "change category" button)


Thanks!

Yeah, I just saw that poor rating on the GY. That said, as for the dealer that was able to get the 4 Michelin Defender's, how would the 2019 date codes affect your buying decision?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> That said, as for the dealer that was able to get the 4 Michelin Defender's, how would the 2019 date codes affect your buying decision?


Honestly, if it was me, I wouldn't be considering the Michelins because of the higher price, but the fact that they'd be already almost 3 years old, before you even put them on the car, would be a mark against them, too.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Oddly enough though, I had to bump up a series at the same width (from the OE of 215/65 to 215/70) on my '08 Sienna, to get the speedometer to read correctly. Btw, I made that change in pairs (I have 215/70 on the front, but still running 215/65 on the back) and haven't had any issues with ABS or anything else.


Some makes and/or models are known for showing a slightly lower than accurate speed on the speedometer. Maybe their effort to keep you from getting speeding tickets.


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## AngelArs (Sep 8, 2012)

The tire is unsafe no matter how you look at it. So the _real_ question is, do you want to deliberately make your car unsafe?


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## Clutz (11 mo ago)

As most have pointed out, it should be replaced and I agree as a former tire installer. I would even replace it if it serves as a spare due to possibly needing to get on the highway, and the highway is often where flats happen.
In terms of rubber age, spares can be kept hydrated with 303 Aerospace Protectant for a very long time, allowing one to really extend that 5 year mark to double, or more.
I buy it by the gallon, despite its $50ish cost because it can be used on so many things around the house that are rubber or plastic. It's great for those vacuum tubes inside your furnace, and other hidden bits.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

huesmann said:


> Some makes and/or models are known for showing a slightly lower than accurate speed on the speedometer. Maybe their effort to keep you from getting speeding tickets.


Interesting, because my speedometer has always shown about 3 mph difference than what speed-monitors on the road register, when I drive by. 🤔


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> Interesting, because my speedometer has always shown about 3 mph difference than what speed-monitors on the road register, when I drive by. 🤔


Older cars you could change a gear that drives the speedometer when you changed tire size, today's cars that might be an adjustment with a computer.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

AngelArs said:


> The tire is unsafe no matter how you look at it. So the _real_ question is, do you want to deliberately make your car unsafe?





Clutz said:


> As most have pointed out, it should be replaced and I agree as a former tire installer. I would even replace it if it serves as a spare due to possibly needing to get on the highway, and the highway is often where flats happen.
> In terms of rubber age, spares can be kept hydrated with 303 Aerospace Protectant for a very long time, allowing one to really extend that 5 year mark to double, or more.
> I buy it by the gallon, despite its $50ish cost because it can be used on so many things around the house that are rubber or plastic. It's great for those vacuum tubes inside your furnace, and other hidden bits.


Thanks!

Yeah, agreed as most pointed out it should be replaced. Actually, I'm kinda surprised that Costco installer didn't say something about it's condition before throwing it on the car.

FWIW: I ended up ordering four of my #2 choice (General Alti-Max RT43 86T) from AMZN. They were about $7.00 cheaper per tire than anywhere else that actually had or could get them. I also got a $25.00 promotional credit, which I applied to the purchase, so that helped too. During the purchase, I selected a local tire shop to have the tires delivered to and installed by for $65. The shop was listed by AMZN under "Get Professional Tire Installation," which is "backed by Amazon's Happiness Guarantee".

That said, since this is my first time ordering tires & installation through AMZN, my concerns are what the date codes will be, who’d handle the mileage warranty, if need be; and not having a road hazard warranty through a local installer. So, if anyone has bought tires & installation through AMZN, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts as well as about your experience.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> Interesting, because my speedometer has always shown about 3 mph difference than what speed-monitors on the road register, when I drive by. 🤔


Mine did, too. I checked it using the mileposts on the interstate, and sure enough the speedometer and odometer were reading low. I bumped up one series on my tire size, but kept the width the same (went from 215/65 to 215/70), and now it reads correctly. You might check to see if you're running the OE size. In my case, the OE size was 215/65, so the speedometer/odometer was actually incorrect, but more often it's incorrect because someone has changed tire sizes.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Electronic Speedometer calibration made easy! - Autometer

Hun. it would take about 20 minutes to design a machine so the tire store could do that for you in shop with new tires.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Electronic Speedometer calibration made easy! - Autometer


That's great if you have one of that company's aftermarket speedometers. I doubt it's that easy for an OE speedometer. It's likely not possible to adjust an OEM speedometer/odometer, since 'tampering' with an odometer is illegal.

According this page from Discount Tire, I seems it is possible, even as a DIY project, but of course they recommend you have it done by a shop, because it's safer than stopping on the road.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> Mine did, too. I checked it using the mileposts on the interstate, and sure enough the speedometer and odometer were reading low. I bumped up one series on my tire size, but kept the width the same (went from 215/65 to 215/70), and now it reads correctly. You might check to see if you're running the OE size. In my case, the OE size was 215/65, so the speedometer/odometer was actually incorrect, but more often it's incorrect because someone has changed tire sizes.


Yeah, 185/65/R14 is my OE size, the only thing I see different from what I ordered was the OE speed rating is S not T. That said, I am curious if there's an alternate size that I can safely use on my 96 Civic EX 4-dr sedan?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I wouldn't be too quick to trust the readings from the roadside monitors. I suggest you check the odometer against the mile markers on 5 or 10 mile stretch of highway, if you can.

Anyway, you should be able to use an alternate size to correct the speedometer readings, if they are incorrect. If you want suggestions for an alternate size that will work, we'll need to know how much it's off, percentage-wise (how fast were you traveling for that 3 mph difference - 30 instead of 33, is 10% off, while 60 to 63 is 5% off) , and in which direction.


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## a1481155 (Dec 2, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> I wouldn't be too quick to trust the readings from the roadside monitors. I suggest you check the odometer against the mile markers on 5 or 10 mile stretch of highway, if you can.
> 
> Anyway, you should be able to use an alternate size to correct the speedometer readings, if they are incorrect. If you want suggestions for an alternate size that will work, we'll need to know how much it's off, percentage-wise (how fast were you traveling for that 3 mph difference - 30 instead of 33, is 10% off, while 60 to 63 is 5% off) , and in which direction.


I’m not sure about the difference when driving at highway speeds, but driving around town, my speedometer reads 33, when roadside monitors say 30. I’ll have to give the mile marker test a shot.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

I know that My vehicle with the factory included tires speedometer has always read one MPH less than my two garmins gps says I am doing.
If set to cruise control at 55mph on a flat straightaway (hwy) IF cc is set to 55, the garmin(s) say 54. 
Always has, even when the car was new.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

a1481155 said:


> I’m not sure about the difference when driving at highway speeds, but driving around town, my speedometer reads 33, when roadside monitors say 30. I’ll have to give the mile marker test a shot.


That's a 10% difference. It should hold at highway speeds, as well (speedometer would read 66 when you're actually going 60), but I would check the odometer over as long of a stretch of road as is practical for you.

If it really is 10% off, to correct it you'd bump up to 185/80/R14. There aren't many options for tires in that size, though. The only option I could find that would correct a speedometer that's 10% under, where there are lots of tire options, would be a 205/65/R15, but you'd need replace your rims with 15" ones. 

In either case, you'd need to check the clearance around the tires, to make sure they wouldn't rub on anything when you turn the wheels. Both would have radius to the outside of the tread about 1-1/8" more than what you have, and the 205/65 would be about 3/4" wider (205mm-185mm= 20mm = .787"), so they would be about 3/8" wider on each side.

Probably would be less expensive and less potential issues to look at, by having the speedometer gear in the transmission replaced to correct the speedometer.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Btw, I'm not saying you need to correct the speedometer. The only thing it really changes, other than maybe how you drive, is that the mileage reported by the odometer is high. (It doesn't have as many miles on it as it says it does)


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> Probably would be less expensive and less potential issues to look at, by having the speedometer gear in the transmission replaced to correct the speedometer.


Changing speedometer gears in the transmission is analog technology. Digital speedometers are corrected either by an adjustment in the vehicle computer, or by setting the speedometer into a calibration mode and driving it a certain known distance.

The speed sensor input is used for more than just the speedometer. 
The input is used to control electronic transmission shift points, among other uses.
A speed sensor failure can blank out most of your dash, and leave you with only first and reverse gears.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Oso954 said:


> Changing speedometer gears in the transmission is analog technology. Digital speedometers are corrected either by an adjustment in the vehicle computer, or by setting the speedometer into a calibration mode and driving it a certain known distance.


You're right. I forgot that the OP's Civic speedometer is electronic. I have to keep reminding myself that the electronic ones were on some cars that far back.


Oso954 said:


> The speed sensor input is used for more than just the speedometer.
> The input is used to control electronic transmission shift points, among other uses.
> A speed sensor failure can blank out most of your dash, and leave you with only first and reverse gears.


Yeah, if it's that far off, it might be worth checking the speed sensor, just to be sure it's not the problem. I think it can be checked with one of the plug-in bluetooth engine analyzers that are cheaper than taking it in anywhere.


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