# Sandable Primaer? Fuzzy drywall



## James04

Hello

I am new to the forum. I am in the process of finishing my house and have come across a problem with the drywall. After priming, the drywall paper has fuzzy hairs from the sanding. How can I overcome this. I am using Behr primer. Not the PVA but the more expensive stuff. Enamel undercoat primer sealer. I have attempted to have the taper sand after the primer but the sand paper is getting gummed up. Hand sanding works. But I cannot had sand the entire ceiling (2400 sqft).

Is this primer supposed to be sandable? Is there another primer I can try? What is the best solution to this?

James


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## slickshift

Hi James
Welcome to the site
I'm a little confused, because...well...you should be having that problem and I don't know why you are

The joint compound should be sanded before priming, not the sheetrock w/o joint compound
If the sheetrock itself is being sanded enough to make it fuzzy, it's being over sanded
If that's the case, it needs to _not_ be over sanded...before it becomes fuzzy
Once fuzzy, the fix is to put a coat of Zinsser's Gardz over it, then sand
Then prime again if needed...but use a good primer (Zinsser/BenMoore/SherwinWilliams/Pittsburgh...), not the Behr stuff


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## James04

slickshift

Thank you for your reply. I used a powered drywall sander. Porter Cable makes it. So when you sand the compound in areas that are less than the width of the disk. It contacts the paper. No doubt a more experienced user would have not have had the same result. But according to the guy who did the taping. He sees this all the time. He blames it on the recycled paper that is used on the drywall now.

I have no help available to me. So it looks like using the sprayer is out. Is the Zinsser's Gardz the only sandable primer? Do you know were I can get it?

James


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## Nestor_Kelebay

OK, here's what I figure happened:

Your taping contractor put up the tape and mudded it for you.

Instead of hand sanding the joints, you used that Porter Cable electric combination drywall joint sander and vaccuum cleaner to sand down the drywall joints AND the paper on both sides of the drywall joints.

Then you applied primer to the whole ceiling, and the surface on both sides of all the drywall joints is rough now cuz of the roughened paper cuz of the sanding.

You tried to sand that rough primer down by hand, but the sandpaper is gumming up.

If that's the story, what I'd do is:

1. Try scraping that rough primer down with a Sandvik paint scraper. (the kind with the tungsten carbide blade)

Hold a bright light close to the ceiling but a foot or two away from the rough area you scraped and see if it's smooth. If that seems to work OK, then do your whole ceiling that way, and then hold a bright light up close to the ceiling and see if the areas you scraped are smooth enough to prime over again. If not, then I'd paint those areas with white wood glue diluted with enough water to make a paintable consistancy and paint those areas with the diluted glue using a roller. (watch, the stuff will spatter!) Then, after the adhesive dries, trowel a thin coat of joint compound over those areas.

(There are different kinds of joint compound, and the "topping" or "finish" compounds will be the softest and easiest to sand smooth. Alternatively, if you want a harder surface, even though it's a ceiling and don't need ta be hard, use an "all purpose" joint compound for a harder surface. Using a "Taping" or "Regular" joint compound will dry harder, and much more difficult to sand smooth.)

Also drywall joint compound shrinks as it dries, so it may need another coat (or two) just to fill in the shrinkage. Sand smooth by hand while holding a bright light close to the ceiling with your other hand so that you can tell when it's smooth, and sand only the joint compound this time. 

Wear a dust mask, or have a helper hold the nozzle of a vaccuum cleaner close to where you're working so you can tap the sander against the nozzle periodically to remove the sanding dust from it.

Then, prime and paint.

And, phone around to the places listed under "machists equipment & supplies" in your yellow pages and find out who sells 3M Scotchbrite pads for polishing metal after machining. Buy an "ultrafine" pad (6 inch X 9 inch, typically) with a fairly open weave, and slip it behind the sanding SCREEN of your hand sander. The sanding dust will pass through the screen and into the pad so nothing gums up. And, you can hold the nozzle of your vaccuum cleaner against the side of your hand sander to vaccuum the sanding dust out of the Scotchbrite pad.

2. If scraping with that top quality paint scraper doesn't seem to work, then the next step I'd take would be to put a thicker coat of joint compound over those rough areas with something called a "curved trowel". This looks just like a normal plastering trowel until you sight along the edge or set it down on a flat surface, and realise that it's curved so that it arches up about 1/8 from that flat surface in the middle. That way, when you hold it at a comfortable angle to the ceiling, it will spread a perfectly uniform "mound" of joint compound over that rough area that's about 1/16 of an inch thick in the middle and tapers to zero thickness on both sides, which hopefully will be enough to bury that roughness. Allow to dry, sand smooth, prime and paint.


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## Nestor_Kelebay

James:

How much of the surface paper of the drywall did you sand off?

Did you just roughen the surface so that the white paper is still visible amid the roughness?

Did you sand the white paper down to the brown paper beneath it?

Or, are there places where the brown paper is history and the white gypsum core is showing?

Even if you've exposed the gypsum core, you can still fix it with some work.


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## James04

Nestor,

It is just the surface of the paper. Not too bad at all. It looks like a peach until you spray it with primer. Then it looks like a nightmare.

You have got the story correct. Except it is not just the edges of the joints it is also in the field were all the screws were spotted. I think I will try rolling the primer in a test area that has not been sprayed yet. Hopefully that will work. As far as this one room that has already been sprayed. I will just have to hand sand it and re prime. Ill let you know if rolling prevents the issue.

In the mean time I will try to find a sandable primer. Just in case I have the same issue in other areas.

James


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## slickshift

Sprayed primers need to be back-rolled or back-brushed
Just stay away from those Behr primers
Get to a real paint store


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## James04

It looks like the main source of trouble was spraying without back rolling. After repriming with a roller the finish was good. However as suggested the Behr primer is not good enough. It took two coats on the unprimed areas for just barley acceptable results. I have now purchased some of Sherwin Williams Prep Right. That has made a world of difference. Just one coat applied with a roller is better than two coats with the Behr.

James


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## slickshift

Thanks for the update
The Prep Rite is definitely a quality primer


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## 747

When ever going with primer buy zinsser bullseye 123. Its great stuff. As a matter of fact slickshift told me about it along time ago.:laughing:


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## chrisn

Just one coat applied with a roller is better than two coats with the Behr.

Probably true with ANY other primer.:laughing:


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## James04

747 said:


> When ever going with primer buy zinsser bullseye 123. Its great stuff. As a matter of fact slickshift told me about it along time ago.:laughing:



I will check to see how much the Bullseye is. The Prep Rite is not a little pricey.

James


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## turbo69bird

For those reading this older thread looking for answers. 
I am a thrid generation painting contractor. My family started the business in 1937.
I can tell you that there are two major causes for this problem.
1. the introduction of the power sander.
2 the use of recycled paper on dry wall

There are a few ways to defeat this from the start. 
One is to use 220 grit screen to sand not paper or dics that are sand paper type also the sander must not use excessive pressure or stay in one spot to long.
Technique is everything and this is where a quality taper come into play.

I have also seen some guys on the higher end homes using foam buffing pads from a car buffer and ipping them in a bucket of water. Then sanding with this system but you must really doa quiality job with the tping so not much has to be taken off to get flat.

If you already have the issue of raised paper fiber, you must then use a wall paint like Master hide from sherwin williams. It is self priming and very heavy. It has alot of clay base in it for coverage.

Spray it on heavy Very heavy and back roll using a 1/2 inch nap 18 inch roller cover. Contractor grade is the best cover for this, roll through the paint just as it is starting to tack up.

It will lay the fibers over and you will not see them and it will add a small amount of texture to the ceiling to hide imperfections in the drywall. I am sure you will have some inperfections because if you had a good taper you wouldnt have had this issue in the first place. LOL


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## Tracymc

HorseS**T :furious:do not blame the taper/ finisher, it was specifically said HO sand job. As a finisher would I ever let any one sand my work , HELL NO, but who knows why, it happened. You only sand the JC not the paper sand sponge the field screws. The fix is to skim the wall tight or use a high build primer surfacer like Tuff Hide or Prep Coat. This is not a taper issue if any one says they can tape so well they dont ever sand I have a crisp 100$ bill to show me how, I have 20 very qualified Finishers that I employ combined about 300 years of experience, they still sand, this is a common apprentice mistake.
Trace


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## Tracymc

Any way the only thing taped that shpuld be less than the width of a PC7800 Disk is the screw line. Butt Joints a min of 26" and Flats ( recessed edges ) min 12" in width once triple coated. Dont start scaping it will just compound your issues, tearing face paper and so on, so on, so forth. Needs a sandable high build prime to rid your self of the fuzzies.

"I am sure you will have some inperfections because if you had a good taper you wouldnt have had this issue in the first place. LOL" Turbo
This is a typical painter answer, blame the finishers incompetance B.S. this case blame the HO they sanded it, and blew the paper. this instance is when my apprentices learn to skim coat in repair situations, but I also TEACH them right off NO SANDING ON THE FACE PAPER!!!!!!!!!


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## Tracymc

James,
This rant was by no means directed @ u I hear this complaint daily about how bad the finishers are from painters, which is why I now have a painting division so I can keep a handle on the whiners. U probably did not know it would create an issue because u were never told. But I am a finisher by trade and this argument has gone on forever.


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## ProOnePaint

I tend to agree with Tracy. Having painted professionally for 26+ years, I learned real quick that quality rock hangers and finishers are worth their weight in gold. It has always been easy for one trade to point the finger at another. I have never believed in that concept. The times I have run into trades that arent as professional as they should be I try to tactfully bring it to their attention. Those who are offended, I wont work with again. For jobs I cant handle on my own, I have a list of people that I can vouch for. Thats the reason I try not to get involved with large commercial work or builders who arent as quality minded. Thanks for bringing your replies to everybodies attention Tracy; every once in awhile we need to be reminded that there are professionals in the various trades.


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## Tracymc

Well said, I wish there was less fingerpointing in this business. We have structured our business around curtailing this issue. We sub only Electrical, Plumbing,and HVAC. I have separate crews for framing, GWB, Taping, Paint,and trim. I keep this with because all my crews have a vested intrest in expediting the project, ad not sacrficing quality, for speed, be efficient. I operate with the philosophy that it is faster to do it right once than do it fast 2x. I love to answer questions and lend a hand if possible that is why I am a member here, but not to point the finger @ someone else or give bad advice.


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## Nestor_Kelebay

To all the professional plasterer's and drywallers in here:

I never had anyone teach me how to plaster or drywall. I bought a 21 unit apartment block and learned mostly from my father how to do certain kinds of work, but learned to repair plaster on my own.

Why don't you guys supply each of the people that work for you with a bright light and a long extension cord?

I've found that the most necessary tool to have whenever I'm doing any plastering or drywall repair work (besides the trowel and necessary componds) is a bright light illuminating the area from a sharp angle to exagerate the roughness of the surface. This gives a person an excellent mental picture of where the surface isn't smooth and what needs to be done to make it smooth. Also, it provides immediate feedback on what you're doing; whether you're making the surface smoother or not. (The Homeowner would have immediately realized that his sanding the drywall paper was making things worse.) AND, it's blindingly obvious to anyone about to paint over that surface whether or not it's ready to be painted, thereby avoiding the finger pointing contests between drywallers and painters that come later.

When the joint compound looks OK under such critical lighting, it'll look perfect under normal lighting, and the resulting wall or ceiling won't cause problems. When doing ceiling joints that will be illuminated by ceiling mounted light fixtures or from windows that come to within inches of the ceiling, you need to work under critical lighting conditions anyway so you can see what the client will see. If you don't, then you may be in for a surprise later.

Just using critical lighting has helped me tremendously in achieving much better results much more quickly. I believe it would help the young people working for you as well. Or, at least, it couldn't do any harm, and it would eliminate all plausible excuses for not producing high quality work.

You don't need to read the rest, but I have a nice bunny here and I'm gonna put him in a sack and throw him in the river unless you do.

Also, I am a firm believer that it's possible to refute what someone else says without offending them. Saying, "No, that's simply not true." carries much more weight with me than "BULLSH!#". At least in the former case, I presume I'm dealing with someone in full control of their faculties. In the latter, I know I'm dealing with someone who's emotions are controlling them.

Also, it's perfectly acceptable to NOT refute what someone else says. Everyone in here may have a different take on the problem and the appropriate solution. It's fine to simply state what you think without stating that someone else is wrong. None of us can see the problem with our own eyes, and the original poster knows that he's getting differing opinions and it's up to him to see what solution seems to address his situation and problem best.

(I think everyone in here would agree that it's kinda counter productive to sand the drywall.)


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