# Alternative to RoundUp?



## mike1027 (Apr 16, 2017)

Looking to find a safer alternative to RoundUp. Can anyone suggest an herbicide product that only impacts the plants that you spray directly; something that kills to the root but does not impact the soil and surrounding plants? I need to keep an area clear that has some young evergreens; so I'm not necessarily looking for something that can be used to kill weeds within a lawn.

Thanks!!


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

If you can, cut the stem and paint the root end with RoundUp on a ear swab or small brush. Minimizes the impact.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Just applied Round up for the first time, I've been trying to control grass and weeds at the bottom of a wire fence and not doing well. With ticks being a major problem I need to eliminate all tall weeds as that is where they linger to grab onto my puppy dogs.

Back to the round-up. Large container but it delivered the liquid in a single stream not a spray as I anticipated. I was expecting to spray around the outside hitting all of the growth. Ended up just applying that single stream in one line along the outside.

2 days later not much action. A week later, wow 90% dead. 2 Weeks now and a 2' wide swath along the outside plus under the fence 100% dead. I didn't apply it over that wide of an area so using it to spot kill I suspect would be a disaster, big spots.

As for alternatives, I haven't found any so will watch.

Bud


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

I think those juries were wrong.

BUT!

I'm gonna keep using glyphosate, which is the active ingredient.

And, I'm going to keep using it safely, like i have for more than 40 years.

1. Use it sparingly. DON'T do like farmers do and spray it on everything.

2. Don't use it near edible crops, like farmers also do (that's a lot of that GMO stuff). Just pull and yank.

It's strong medicine, to be used wisely.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

You can use high strength vinegar but it doesn't kill the root and the plant can come back.

I think it's reasonable to use roundup on noxious weeds like poison ivy. For cosmetic purposes, not really. 

If you didn't have surrounding plants salting the soil would work.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Roundup only kills the plant you get it on the green growing parts of.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Weed torch works well for me.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Windows on Wash said:


> Weed torch works well for me.


Just try it on convovulus or that Japanese Purple morning glory, with roots 9 feet deep in the ground.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Based on your criteria, I don't see a reason to not use RoundUp and, as stated, it's the best product to accomplish your goal.

To expand on what Dave said, it only works on plants which are actively growing so it is safe even if spilled or over-sprayed on plants which are dormant.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

:vs_mad:I watched this lady one day, spray roundup on the bare dirt! :vs_mad:

Took a deep breath, and advised her that RU only works on green growing plants above ground. She looked at me like I was mad.

Then she read the label. "Okay, honey, you're right."


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## derik999 (Aug 28, 2017)

Crossbow has always worked well for me. You can spray it or apply it with a brush. I used it to get rid of a whole lot of scotch broom on my property.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

derik999 said:


> Crossbow has always worked well for me. You can spray it or apply it with a brush. I used it to get rid of a whole lot of scotch broom on my property.


It's good, old 2-4-D, just like Ortho Weed B Gon! (Why Crossbow is banned in California, I have no idea.)

It won't work on monocot plants, like grasses the way glyphosate does.


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

WRT round-up studies, my former next door neighbor told me he worked for the railroad when in high school spraying right of way w/glyphosate. Said to cool off they would jump in the tanks.
This came up when I asked if he knew where I could get some of that industrial glyphosate the railroad uses.

He was 80 and last I saw him his wife was fussing at him to get off the roof.


bg


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

yardmullet said:


> WRT round-up studies, my former next door neighbor told me he worked for the railroad when in high school spraying right of way w/glyphosate. Said to cool off they would jump in the tanks.
> This came up when I asked if he knew where I could get some of that industrial glyphosate the railroad uses.
> 
> He was 80 and last I saw him his wife was fussing at him to get off the roof.
> ...


You sure he's 80 and not 60? If he was in high school when RU came out, that would have been in the 1970s.

I would never ever jump into a tank of the stuff! YIKE! One of the guys who sued got it all over himself, too.

Glad to hear your friend and his wife are both hale and hearty!


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

Roundup is one of those things that proves humans are really bad at math and statistics. 
Almost any chemical can do bad stuff to you if you get it on you and inhale it 100+ times per year. 
A typical home user sprays 3-4 times a year from a handheld pump sprayer. Exposure is 10,000 times less than what a commercial user gets. That's close enough to zero for me not to worry about using it around my yard.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

chiraldude said:


> Roundup is one of those things that proves humans are really bad at math and statistics.
> Almost any chemical can do bad stuff to you if you get it on you and inhale it 100+ times per year.
> A typical home user sprays 3-4 times a year from a handheld pump sprayer. Exposure is 10,000 times less than what a commercial user gets. That's close enough to zero for me not to worry about using it around my yard.


I concur. :vs_cool:


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Shoulda been more clear. He IS 80ish, but was on the roof.


In contrast, the lawyer dik that built on an adjacent property drove over one day requesting I provide MSDS for the herbicides I used. Wanted to make sure I was mixing correctly. And if I didn't he would call EPA. I told him to GFH and called Ala Board said this guy is harassing me. The woman I spoke with said he was such a a PIA in his previous neighborhood they had annual street parties on the date he moved.


bg


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## derik999 (Aug 28, 2017)

chiraldude said:


> Roundup is one of those things that proves humans are really bad at math and statistics.
> Almost any chemical can do bad stuff to you if you get it on you and inhale it 100+ times per year.
> A typical home user sprays 3-4 times a year from a handheld pump sprayer. Exposure is 10,000 times less than what a commercial user gets. That's close enough to zero for me not to worry about using it around my yard.



These are the types of people that don't follow the directions on the label and then post a 1 star review saying the product doesn't work.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I echo the sentiments about Roundup being safe.

That being said, if you're looking to kill broadleaf weeds, good ol' 2,4-D works well. Dicamba, too.

Not that they are any safer, just no big, deep-pocketed company behind them to make the news.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

I remember I did a thread about carcinogens being everywhere.

So, assuming that glyphosate is carcinogenic, I'll keep using as ever. With care. Same as so many other things.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

The studies proving safety of pesticides aren't reliable - most are funded by the manufacturer.

This being said, roundup is probably one of the least toxic chemicals used in gardening and agriculture.

Insecticides are probably a lot worse - most are neurotoxins by design and basically paralyze the insect.


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

NickTheGreat said:


> I echo the sentiments about Roundup being safe.
> 
> That being said, if you're looking to kill broadleaf weeds, good ol' 2,4-D works well. Dicamba, too.
> 
> ...


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

Yep, my wife was very unhappy with me once for spraying 2-4-D near her rose bushes. Even though I kept the spray several feet away on a day with little wind, the roses were stunned quite a bit. Didn't kill them but it took a month to recover. 
I later found out that 2-4-D is quite volatile. It's not spray drift but actually the "fumes" of the stuff evaporating that can affect plants far away.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I use 2,4 D on my lawn and every time I open the bottle and pour it into my sprayer, the look and smell of it remind me of the Liquid Death potion in the sixth Harry Potter book/movie.


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## mike1027 (Apr 16, 2017)

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'll use RoundUp as it will do the job best. But I'll follow the instructions and gown-up appropriately.


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## rjordan393 (Sep 15, 2010)

To make Roundup more effective; water the area or plant well and then apply the product.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@mike1027, what @rjordan393 said, except I'd go a bit further; if you have the time, water heavy and fertilize then wait a couple three weeks. Pump those expletive weeds up, them strike, like Thunderball!


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## derik999 (Aug 28, 2017)

chiraldude said:


> Yep, my wife was very unhappy with me once for spraying 2-4-D near her rose bushes. Even though I kept the spray several feet away on a day with little wind, the roses were stunned quite a bit. Didn't kill them but it took a month to recover.
> I later found out that 2-4-D is quite volatile. It's not spray drift but actually the "fumes" of the stuff evaporating that can affect plants far away.



I live in a somewhat forested area so I usually am spraying away from any gardens or other areas that I've brought plants in. Scotch Broom is a real problem over here and Crossbow wipes it out, especially when painted on the stump. That stuff gives new meaning to the term invasive species.


Always use a surfactant so more of the product stays on the leaves.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

derik999 said:


> I live in a somewhat forested area so I usually am spraying away from any gardens or other areas that I've brought plants in. Scotch Broom is a real problem over here and Crossbow wipes it out, especially when painted on the stump. That stuff gives new meaning to the term invasive species.
> 
> 
> Always use a surfactant so more of the product stays on the leaves.


You might be freaked out to learn that broom is sold as an ornamental in some places!

Where are you located, just out of curiosity?


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## derik999 (Aug 28, 2017)

DoomsDave said:


> You might be freaked out to learn that broom is sold as an ornamental in some places!
> 
> Where are you located, just out of curiosity?



NW corner of Washington State.


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## gjones8131 (Jun 11, 2019)

DoomsDave said:


> I think those juries were wrong.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> ...


Downside of class actions eh...

Ill second that though, glyphosate may be a potential carcinogen but you have to get exposed to substantial amounts... Wear a respirator when spraying (major exposure route is inhaling the mist) and long pants/shirt. You wont have any problems. 

Oh and if you use the concentrate try not to spill on yourself


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Good thing most of you scientists think glyphosate is safe because it's in most of the cereals you eat, your urine & in the groundwater.

Many weeds are resistant to glyphosate.


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## measure2cut3 (May 30, 2019)

I use the HDX (HD brand) Glyphosate concentrate 41% vs 2% for Roundup w/ 0 ground transfer to neighboring plants. It is a gd value and a highly localized, effective product.


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

Nik333 said:


> Good thing most of you scientists think glyphosate is safe because it's in most of the cereals you eat, your urine & in the groundwater.
> 
> Many weeds are resistant to glyphosate.


Yes you can find glyphosate in food and ground water but you can also find 50 other chemicals in foods that are proven carcinogens. 
The deal is that technology has developed the ability to detect these things in parts per billion. 
It's all about the dosage. So no, I'm not worried about glyphosate.
And yes, you could think of me as a scientist. I have a degree in Biology and another in Chemical Engineering.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

chiraldude said:


> Yes you can find glyphosate in food and ground water but you can also find 50 other chemicals in foods that are proven carcinogens.
> The deal is that technology has developed the ability to detect these things in parts per billion.
> It's all about the dosage. So no, I'm not worried about glyphosate.
> And yes, you could think of me as a scientist. I have a degree in Biology and another in Chemical Engineering.


:biggrin2: But not in Medicine, Medical Research, Oncology, Hematology, Toxicology, Environmental Sciences or Public Health. I have great respect for engineers but not in this subject. 

Btw, I really disliked all Chem but 2nd qtr Organic Chem. & the labs. But, I plowed through.

The average water company doesn't test for much.

The OP asked for alternatives & almost everyone told him to use glyphosate?


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Nik333 said:


> Good thing most of you scientists think glyphosate is safe because it's in most of the cereals you eat, your urine & in the groundwater.
> 
> Many weeds are resistant to glyphosate.


The scientists paid off by monsanto/bayer?


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

Nik333 said:


> The OP asked for alternatives & almost everyone told him to use glyphosate?


That's because there isn't anything out there that is effective but less toxic than glyphosate. That is why it gained such widespread usage. 

Alternatives:
Possibly you could use vinegar or lye? Either will soak into the soil and kill roots but it will be hard to control. For vinegar you would have to buy a concentrated solution of at least 50%. Grocery store vinegar is only 5%. Not even sure where to get it. Also, concentrated vinegar (acetic acid) would be rough on your skin. Lye would be cheaper but you would have to mix your own solution. Also bad for your skin!
Before Roundup, people used a hoe, hedge clippers or just pulled weeds by hand.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

If every carcinogenic man made chemical was illegal, we wouldn't have most electronics, plastics, insecticides, chemo drugs (yes, the drugs can cause cancer themselves so it better be a life and death thing) etc.

You use the chemical when the benefits out-way the risks. I'll tolerate almost any chemical to get rid of bedbugs or roaches. (and like i said before, most insecticides have got to be way more toxic than roundup)

I would rather see restrictions on agricultural use more so than anything else due to the sheer volumes sprayed. Especially on grain crops just prior to harvest.

Using a little roundup occasionally probably isn't going to cause major health issues. For some things it may be the best tool for the job - I just don't think its worth it for cosmetic applications. 

Lye is pretty nasty stuff - ever use oven cleaner and have the fumes burn your throat? That's from the lye, its extremely corrosive. 

Vinegar doesn't kill the roots. 

Best to just dig up the undesirable plants.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I am more worried about what Glyphosphate is doing to the microorganism biome.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Windows on Wash said:


> I am more worried about what Glyphosphate is doing to the microorganism biome.


I just read about that. Thanks. Good thing I just made yogurt.:wink2:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Nik333 said:


> I just read about that. Thanks. Good thing I just made yogurt.



Goes much deeper and smaller than that. This is about the entirety of how the food is grown and what is ultimately in it beyond what we know and can see.


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## measure2cut3 (May 30, 2019)

Gotta admit you're right there, Nik, "Guilty as charged", appears to be a lot of folks who believe in the efficacy and safety of Glyphosate and don't have a "second choice" so instead shared their opinion on w/ the OP assuming he was also in the market for feedback. I wasn't able to glean your suggestion for an alternative out of your post, though, only the critique on the other posters who tried to help.:yawn:


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

mike1027 said:


> Looking to find a safer alternative to RoundUp. Can anyone suggest an herbicide product that only impacts the plants that you spray directly; something that kills to the root but does not impact the soil and surrounding plants? I need to keep an area clear that has some young evergreens; so I'm not necessarily looking for something that can be used to kill weeds within a lawn.
> 
> Thanks!!


It's called a hoe.


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## RRH (Nov 24, 2016)

22 years ago I owned a business and would use a typical garden sprayer and sprayed a few hundred gallons. Each year for about 7 years.
Would even get the taste in my mouth at times on a windy day.

Since then using about 20 gallons a year on my own property.

Still no health problems that I know of. So I myself will not worry at all.

If you are concerned. Use one of the herbicide weed wick applicator. Or your garden sprayer with a upside down funnel on the end. 
Both of these will just apply chemical in a small area with no chance of wind drift.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

user_12345a said:


> The scientists paid off by monsanto/bayer?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszHrMZ7dx4


Assuming this is true, it still won't prove causation, i.e., that glyphosate caused the cancers, or that it's at the root of an "epidemic" of same.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

snic said:


> It's called a hoe.


Yeah, just try that on nutgrass. F U T I L I T Y.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

Key is identifying the weeds so you know what to use on them. That aside, I have a vine in my Gulf of Mexico coast climate that glyphosate will not touch. Two people at the usually-reliable garden center nearby just told me that, "it is not poison ivy." 2,4-D kills it very quickly all by itself although I usually spray it with the same mix I am using for cool weather weed control in the sod.

If the area is amenable to the torch method, that may be the best choice even though it does not kill the roots. If you keep at it, control will come. The fumes, however, may be more dangerous than the glyphosate.

I feel the nutsedge pain. Sometimes cultivation can be very counter productive.


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

There are only a handful of chemicals that can directly "cause" cancer. In most cases, the chemical causes an increase in probability of cancer by damaging DNA or interfering with the bodies ability to repair DNA damage.
All of us are constantly exposed to cancer causing things and our bodies are constantly repairing the damage. 
If you get shot, it is simple to prove the injury was from a bullet. If you get cancer, all you can say is that it could have been glyphosate.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

Actually that is not true and one needs only to look at the farm workers who have twice the rate of cancers of the rest of the population. Problem with glyphosate is that it is being applied by the tons to crop fields and inevitably it is ingested, and that includes its being passed to a fetus and to an infant through its mother's milk. Primary problem with glyphosate is that it not only kills plants in the fields but it also kills critical bacteria in the gut that is vital to the production of neurotransmitters and this in turn affects brain function and is linked to the parallel rise of autism and ADHD with the increase in tons of glyphosate applied over the past 25 years. 

Glyphosate works on leafy plants in the spring and early summer, but is useless for plants with deep roots. For woody plants like blackberry or poison oak where one needs to kill the roots the "brush killers" like Brush-B-Gone (active ingredient is Triclopyr) are what is needed. The reality is that Triclopyr BEE can get into the roots of nearby trees and cause them damage as well. The half life of Triclopyr BEE is 30 days so after 90 days it is less likely to harm a new plant in the area. 

Triclopyr BEE can be purchased in 16% and 61% solutions and the higher concentration only costs $10 more a gallon. A plus is that Triclopyr is not toxic to bees. 

Using a hoe or a goat and taking the plant down to the ground puts it into shock and it takes much longer for it to recover and start putting out new growth.


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

RRH said:


> 22 years ago I owned a business and would use a typical garden sprayer and sprayed a few hundred gallons. Each year for about 7 years.
> Would even get the taste in my mouth at times on a windy day.
> 
> Since then using about 20 gallons a year on my own property.
> ...


Yup. It's also true that 90% lifelong smokers don't get lung cancer.

I was going to add something snarky like "So you should try smoking, too," but rather than doing that I'll just mention that scientific evaluation often contradicts personal experience. Getting a disease, like pretty much everything in life and death, is a game of chance. Generally, doing X doesn't lead to definitely getting or not getting a disease. Rather, your behavior increases or decreases the probability that you'll get the disease.

With regard to glyphosate, I have no idea what the scientific evidence says. It could be that some level of exposure increases cancer risk by a small amount. By itself, that increased risk might not matter much - but consider all the other chemicals you're exposed to that each increase cancer risk by some small amount. Perhaps the reason why *38% of people will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetimes* is because we constantly expose ourselves to tiny risks that add with each other.

Which is why, in general, I prefer a hoe over Roundup. I'll use a tiny amount of Roundup in a spray bottle on poison ivy (to avoid getting another horrific rash). But weeding anything other than poison ivy is healthy. As is mulching to reduce further weeds.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

Calson said:


> Actually that is not true and one needs only to look at the farm workers who have twice the rate of cancers of the rest of the population. /QUOTE]
> 
> Farm workers are also exposed to many other things at higher levels than the general population that might cause cancer and are more closely linked to cancer than glyphosate. Take sunlight for example.
> 
> ...


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

snic said:


> Perhaps the reason why *38% of people will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetimes* is because we constantly expose ourselves to tiny risks that add with each other.


I.e. we live.


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

Buy a goat which will eat any weed or utilize vinegar. Some weed species have such a cell memory they will go very very very deep to find water, when surface water is not available. Some weed species need very little H20.

As a scientist, isopropylamine salt of glyphosate kills good or beneficial bacteria in the soil- PERIOD- a fact not a theory or hypothesis. The toxicity is still being debated and researched.

On a human rights prospective Monsanto (round up) is an evil company that pushed out soybean farmers (seed cleaners) through threats, racketeering and illegal activity.Many alternatives for the homeowner that will work.

Tell this to every one- there will always be weed spores in any soil- this is a good thing what you need to do is grow something in its place.

Good luck - religion is debatable not science!


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

What is a "weed spore?"


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

NickTheGreat said:


> What is a "weed spore?"


First defining spore:A spore is the reproductive dispersal unit of lower plants such as fungi and ferns, and protozoa. While complex plants produce flowers and seeds, lower plants create a (typically) single-celled spore. Spores are released by the parent thallus, either inside or outside a reproductive sac called a sporangium

A WEED IS JUST A PLANT IN THE WRONG PLACE! that uses it spores to move on to the next place.


Here is an example of a weed spore that is soil beneficial, yet produced without testing into a cannabis product can effect health immune systems 
This gets into another area of agriculture and discussion of medicinal usage or recreational use of plants: history is repeating itself with cannabis regulation and alcohol.


I choose the below as weed spores develop particular fungi- beneficial to my first statement.

Aspergillus is a saprophytic fungus that helps remove environmental carbon and nitrogen from the earth’s atmosphere. Aspergillus is most commonly found in the soil around us, where it thrives on naturally occurring organic debris. While Aspergillus predominantly grows underground, its spores propagate rapidly in the air with each fungus capable of producing thousands of conidia. These spores are commonly spread through environmental disturbances and strong air currents, that allow them to be found both indoors and out. Aspergillus spores are tiny, even by biological standards, allowing them to travel great distances in the air.

Theres two sides to this Aspergillus spore is beneficial yet it can have an effect on the uses health in particular matter.

Hope that explains and gives you the science of a weed spore.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

ionized said:


> I.e. we live.


AND we don't die of something else first.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Goats in suburbia! :surprise:

Maybe as meat at the halal butcher. Otherwise, best in the country. :vs_cool:


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Calson said:


> Actually that is not true and one needs only to look at the farm workers who have twice the rate of cancers of the rest of the population. Problem with glyphosate is that it is being applied by the tons to crop fields and inevitably it is ingested, and that includes its being passed to a fetus and to an infant through its mother's milk. Primary problem with glyphosate is that it not only kills plants in the fields but it also kills critical bacteria in the gut that is vital to the production of neurotransmitters and this in turn affects brain function and is linked to the parallel rise of autism and ADHD with the increase in tons of glyphosate applied over the past 25 years.
> 
> Glyphosate works on leafy plants in the spring and early summer, but is useless for plants with deep roots. For woody plants like blackberry or poison oak where one needs to kill the roots the "brush killers" like Brush-B-Gone (active ingredient is Triclopyr) are what is needed. The reality is that Triclopyr BEE can get into the roots of nearby trees and cause them damage as well. The half life of Triclopyr BEE is 30 days so after 90 days it is less likely to harm a new plant in the area.
> 
> ...


Yeah, and GMOs make it possible, too. Maybe the best argument against GMOs? 

I was a bit staggered when I read about how much glyphosate is used on farms. Hmm. Consider a hog farmer who uses a lot of glyph on his GMO corn; which is the real hog? The one in the pen? Or the one in the tractor?


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

jmig7 said:


> Good luck - religion is debatable not science!


I have some land on Vulcan to sell you. Also some gold I made from base metal.:smile:


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

Nik333 said:


> I have some land on Vulcan to sell you. Also some gold I made from base metal.:smile:[/QUOTE
> 
> My quote "religion is debatable and science is not" is not original- it comes from NATALIE ANGIER whom is a Pulitzer prize winning science writer.
> 
> ...


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

BTW great video on weed and land management with goats:





Not a new concept, not popular because the capitalistic greed of selling chemicals to uneducated consumers makes money vs goats.

Pay attention to the intelligent women whom explains weed spores, how Roundup fails and is detrimental in weed management / soil pollution.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

They have lots of rented goats in Calif. They put up temp wire fences & release the goats. Names like Goats R US & Rent A Goat.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

jmig7 said:


> Nik333 said:
> 
> 
> > I have some land on Vulcan to sell you. Also some gold I made from base metal.:smile:[/QUOTE
> ...


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

Nik333 said:


> jmig7 said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the thread has been off the OP's topic.
> ...


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

jmig7 said:


> Nik333 said:
> 
> 
> > Agree.
> ...


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

jmig7 said:


> BTW great video on weed and land management with goats:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJBtmSR7Nnc
> 
> Not a new concept, not popular because the capitalistic greed of selling chemicals to uneducated consumers makes money vs goats.
> ...


But what do you do where you can't have goats?


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

DoomsDave said:


> jmig7 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the link!
> ...


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

@DoomsDave - Did you ask? There's a goat farm in the Heights. Must be zoned for that?

Visiting goats might be different than residing ones.
Transient goats vs residents.:wink2:


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Nik333 said:


> DoomsDave said:
> 
> 
> > How did that post end up under my name? Written by jmig7, but has my name at the top?
> ...


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Nik333 said:


> @*DoomsDave* - Did you ask? There's a goat farm in the Heights. Must be zoned for that?
> 
> Visiting goats might be different than residing ones.
> Transient goats vs residents.:wink2:


You smile now, until the transient goats are knocking on your door in the night...


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## asam33 (Sep 7, 2014)

Vinegar and salt concoction


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Yep I've cleared areas where I want NOTHING to grow with salt! 
I've also mixed hot water,dawn an vinegar an sprayed that over the salted area on a sunny day for a faster kill.

An black plastic blocks the sun too.- all dead now .
If I want shrubs to stay I use the weed block fabrick.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

salt ruins the soil so it's no good if you want to plant in it after.

The black plastic may cook the soil.


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

I wanted NOTHING to ever grow there.
Works great between driveway an sidewalk cracks too or anywhere you want nothing to grow..
I used fabric where plants are or will go later.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> salt ruins the soil so it's no good if you want to plant in it after.
> 
> The black plastic may cook the soil.


We don't have as much land around houses here, so I wonder if you could affect the soil of your neighbor. Then, does salt go to groundwater & affect agriculture?


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Multiple manufacturers have that as a ingredient in it also..in different forms --
Active ingredients: 2.63% Isoxaben, 4.73% 2,4-D dimethylamine salt, 1.10% Mecoprop-p potassium salt, 0.52% Dicamba, potassium salt.
.Chemical weed control has been used for a very long time: sea salt, industrial by-products, and oils were first employed.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

hidden 1 said:


> Multiple manufacturers have that as a ingredient in it also..in different forms --
> Active ingredients: 2.63% Isoxaben, 4.73% 2,4-D dimethylamine salt, 1.10% Mecoprop-p potassium salt, 0.52% Dicamba, potassium salt.
> .Chemical weed control has been used for a very long time: sea salt, industrial by-products, and oils were first employed.


To my knowledge, it's only in recent years that we've come to understand how groundwater is being contaminated. Salt isn't really one of the common minerals tested for in simple soil tests. It may influence the pH but you wouldn't really know if your soil was contaminated w
ith salt. You would know that your garden wasn't doing well.

Sodium chloride is very different than the salts you mention above.


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Yea the salt we consume isnt the man made chemical salts..
Way back that's what naturally was used before the man made ones..- natural sea salt.

Nature cant be matched .

Good luck with staying "natural' in todays " man made chemical" world !


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm sure the salts in herbicide preparations are lower percentage compared to what's required to intentionally kill off plants.

plus it's not sodium.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

Pull out the weeds and then add 4 inches of mulch to the area and you will have stopped new plants. In the early spring add a pre-emergent weed control to the area as it will affect weeds but not the existing plants.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I didn't go back through the 80 posts to see if this had been mentioned but saw *this* article about controlling invasive plants in S Portland Maine without using pesticides, they brought in the goats. Interesting approach, pesticide free, and I suppose they get some free fertilizer in the process. 

I actually have a couple of friends who have goats as pets and their kids love them.

Bud


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

We have encountered goats down toward Tampa. Supposedly for the Hispanic (meat) market, our horses are shy of them. Can't say as I blame them as their faces are more extreme, make them look hollween spooky. I doubt I'd hire those to do weeds tho a goat, we have been told, can be a calming influence on a horse.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> I didn't go back through the 80 posts to see if this had been mentioned but saw *this* article about controlling invasive plants in S Portland Maine without using pesticides, they brought in the goats. Interesting approach, pesticide free, and I suppose they get some free fertilizer in the process.
> 
> I actually have a couple of friends who have goats as pets and their kids love them.
> 
> Bud


Oh yeah. Goats. :vs_laugh:

In suburbia. Snowflakes, NIMBY . . . . (good curried!) :vs_cool:


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

I have had decent success with vinegar, you can buy 70% vinegar on amazon, though its expensive, but it does work. Green Gobbler has 30% avail in 5's for $100ish.. I had mixed results with the 30%, tho it worked well on my driveway weeds.

But even that was a meh... Sooo. I bought myself a blow torch.


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