# attaching countertop



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

I bought a 60" sink base cabinet at HD and when I removed the box, I started wondering just how in h*** one is supposed to attach the countertop to it! the ONLY things that remotely look as though a screw could go through and subsequently into the top are two rather flimsy looking plastic-like corner pieces in the back and nothing in the front. so what should I do, GLUE the top on?

tnx,


----------



## joasis (May 28, 2006)

That is one way to do it.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

so I guess I should use some Elmer's waterproof glue since it's for a sink?

tnx,


----------



## Cbuer1040 (Jul 16, 2008)

*Construction Adhesive*

I've used construction adhesive several times for this application and it works well. There are several different brands available and you apply it like a caulk.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

You can use panel adhesive or silicone to do it.


----------



## JohnJak (Jun 28, 2008)

I would use silicone personally.


----------



## kc5oh (Jan 28, 2008)

Silicone


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

I think if it wuz me, I would use construction adhesive to attach a piece of 1/2 inch plywood to the top.

Then use "flanged insert nuts" to attach the counter top to the 1/2" plywood.

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=44237&cat=3,41306,45375

(Just Google "flanged insert nuts" and go to the Lee Valley link at the top.)

In my apartment block, I never removed the old counter tops. I simply removed the laminate from the old square edge tops, laminated the edges of the old tops only and installed the new laminate tops over the old 1/2 inch plywood. You can see what this looks like at my web site at:

http://www.ilos.net/~nkelebay

I've never had any negative comments from anyone about it, so if the tenant's are happy with it, I'm happy with it.


----------



## RippySkippy (Feb 9, 2007)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> ...I've never had any negative comments from anyone about it, so if the tenant's are happy with it, I'm happy with it.


If the tenants like the bath fixtures color...is that a good barometer?:whistling2:

100% Silicone for me.


----------



## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

Another vote for silicone. Although we are assuming, you never did mention what kind of counter top material it is.


----------



## JohnDIY (Feb 29, 2008)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I think if it wuz me, I would use construction adhesive to attach a piece of 1/2 inch plywood to the top.
> 
> Then use "flanged insert nuts" to attach the counter top to the 1/2" plywood.
> 
> ...


Mkae sure you use Google's 'safe search'! :wink:


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

you guys talking about some sort of silicone based adhesive? not pure silicone,right? can I use that silicone to attach the sink too?
btw: the countertop is your standard particle board with laminate. 
maybe I should seal that particle board with shellac or something since it might get wet?

tnx,


----------



## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

analogmusicman said:


> you guys talking about some sort of silicone based adhesive? not pure silicone,right? can I use that silicone to attach the sink too?
> btw: the countertop is your standard particle board with laminate.
> maybe I should seal that particle board with shellac or something since it might get wet?
> 
> tnx,


Nope, just 100% silicone. That's what all of my solid surface (Corian), quartz and granite tops use to adhere to cabinets. You'd be surprised how hard it is to remove something that's been siliconed in place!
No need to seal the particle board. The laminate itself keeps it from getting wet. You should have laminate on the edges too and some sort of a backsplash. Silicone the joint between the backsplash and the counter. I always attach the backsplash to the wall NOT the counter. Walls move independently from the counters. Attaching to the wall will keep it from creating a huge gap between the splash and the wall. Worst case is it starts separating from the counter. If that happens, just reseal with silicone.
I assume it's a drop-in sink. If so, either use plumbers putty or silicone around (under) the rim of the sink before attaching. This will keep water from getting in that way.
I personally don't use laminate tops but I surely remove a bunch of them during remodels. Rarely do I see water damage on the particle board if the above recommendations are followed.


----------



## RippySkippy (Feb 9, 2007)

100% silicone. I like to seal the edge of the particle board especially around sink cut-outs, and in front of them between the front edge and the carcase. It seems like that stuff starts to puff up and flake if it smells like water. It won't hurt a thing!


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

which blade in my scroll saw should I use to cut the sink hole?

tnx,


----------



## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

This is to your question on cutting the sink hole.
I haven't sold a Formica top in some years but I would use a laminate cutting jig saw blade with a down stroke (teeth facing down) to keep it from cracking or chipping. if you can't find one then a plywood or plastic cutting blade will be fine. WE here always install the back splash to the back of the counter top. we install silicone or phenoseal to the back edge of the top and then screw the back splash from the back into the counter. this way it supports the counter from pulling down from the backslash in the sink area. the seam stays tight along the back wall. for uneven walls we determine this before hand and install a scribe along the top of the back splash so we can conform it to the wall with a belt sander. or if its not that bad then just caulk the top to the wall.
with marble or granite we glue the back splash to the wall. BOB


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

the "endcap" kit for the countertop says to use an iron to fasten it, sounds like regular contact cement would be better. whatever is already on the endcap (heat activated I guess),should that be removed with solvent before using contact cement?

tnx,

ps: I bought a tube of GE pure silicone, that's the stuff for attaching,right?


----------



## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

analogmusicman said:


> the "endcap" kit for the countertop says to use an iron to fasten it, sounds like regular contact cement would be better. whatever is already on the endcap (heat activated I guess),should that be removed with solvent before using contact cement?
> 
> tnx,
> 
> ps: I bought a tube of GE pure silicone, that's the stuff for attaching,right?


 I hate those home depot Formica countertops. as for the end cap kits you could use the iron but expect it to peel off in a few years, the right way to do laminate is to do your edges first and then your top this way the top laminate overhangs your sides. this way when you slide anything on the top you cant peel them off. use the iron. if it peels off then use the contact adhesive.


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Analogue Musicman:

Here's the steps I take to install new prefab counter tops on the old square edge counter tops in my building. See if this general gameplan is applicable in your situation.

1. Take your P-trap off and take the strainer basket out of your sink. Insert a light bulb inside the sink and put a large piece of glass (like a sliding aluminum window) over top of the sink. Trace the outline of the hole size and shape you need onto the glass with a felt pen. Move the sliding window so that it's resting on two chairs and put a large piece of paper over the glass and your light bulb under it. Trace the size and shape of the hole you need onto the paper. Cut out the paper outline and fold it in half in both directions to establish the vertical and horizontal central axes of your sink hole.

2. Take your counter top and set it on your cabinet. Put a board of uniform width between the front of the cabinet and the back of the bullnosed front of our counter top. NOW scribe the wall profile onto the rear back splash of the counter top. Cut close to that line with a jig saw and then sand up to the line with a belt sander. (Ensuring the counter top is parallel to the cabinet before scribing the backsplash ensures that the counter top will be installed parallel to the cabinet. simply scribing the backsplash to the wall won't do that.)

3. Cut the counter top to length. If the top overhangs your cabinet, then scribe the bottom edge of the cabinet onto the underside of your counter top. (It's better to use a 1/8 oto 1/4 inch thick piece of material to scribe with, and scribe a line on the underside of the counter top so that the counter top, when cut, over hangs the counter by 1/8 to 1/4 inch. The gap will be filled with silicone caulk later.

4. Turn the counter top over and clamp a straight edge to your top so that your circular saw blade will cut along the scrap side of the scribed line. Us masking tape to hold two stacks of shims in place behind the front of the top to serve as ramps so the shoe of the circular saw will clear the front bullnose without changing the plane the blade is moving in.

5. make the cut with your circular saw blade set to it's maximum depth of cut. Vaccuum up the sawdust and move the straight edge so that it's clamped across the kerf at the front of the top. Ensure that the two sides of the kerf are parallel. Now, holding a hand saw flat against the correct side of that kerf, complete the cut through the backsplash with the hand saw.

6. Put your counter top ontop of your cabinet and trace the hole in your old counter top onto the underside of the new counter top. Remove the old counter top if you want now.

7. Position the paper template of the size and shape of the hole required in the middle of the traced existing hole on the underside of the counter top. Use the axes lines on the paper pattern to ensure that the hole is parallel to the counter top.

8. Set your counter top down on some supports with the bottom facing up, drill a pilot hole and cut out the sink hole in your counter top with a jig saw and ordinary blade. Drill your holes for the faucet now too if necessary.

9. Before installing the top, paint any areas of the top that could get wet with oil based paint. This would include the edge of the sink hole and the underside of the top for several inches around the sink, the back side of the front bullnose and the edge of any hole drilled in the top for mounting your faucet(s) and the underside of the top for several inches around these holes as well. That way, if there's a leak in the plumber's putty around the sink, the paint will prevent the particle board from absorbing moisture and swelling until the leak is discovered and fixed.

10. Pack any two handled faucet body with plumber's putty before installing it in the counter top. That way, if you remove a faucet spout to replace the O-ring, the water inside the faucet spout won't come spilling out inside the faucet body, drain into the holes drilled for the faucet supply lines, and cause the particle board to swell up there.

11. I detest those prefab counter top end pieces. I just laminate the edge of the countertop with laminate from a handipanel that matches the cabinets. You'll need a laminate trimmer, edging guide and a 45 degree bevel bit to do this with. The bevel bit just gets the laminate cut CLOSE TO where it should be. You still file the edge of the laminate down with an ordinary file to have the edge of the laminate meet the end of the counter top properly.

12. Secure your counter top to the cabinet and put a bead of silicone caulk in that 1/8 to 14 inch gap between the end of the cabinetand the laminated end of the counter top. That will support the laminate end piece and prevent it from breaking if you bump into it.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

curious: is the reason why you guys use silicone to attach a countertop that the countertop is easier to break free if you need to replace it? makes sense since regular glue would be quite a bit tougher. this sounds like something I should have known.:no:

tnx,


----------



## RippySkippy (Feb 9, 2007)

analogmusicman said:


> curious: is the reason why you guys use silicone to attach a countertop that the countertop is easier to break free if you need to replace it? makes sense since regular glue would be quite a bit tougher. this sounds like something I should have known.tnx,


I don't know that I've ever really thought about glue being "tougher" than silicone...but it is water proof, spans gaps better than glue and holds EXTREMELY well. It is "the" product suited for the job. If you have to remove the top...you find that it holds as good as it needs to. 

Let us know how you get along. BTW before cracking the tube, get your self some low odor mineral spirits to help with clean up.


----------



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

I got a can of "Kilz" oil based primer at HD. should I do the entire underside of the countertop with this? (any moisture at all will do bad things to unprotected particle board,right?)

tnx,


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

You might do a bit better just buying any high gloss alkyd MISTINT for a few bucks rather than the KILZ for full price. It's gonna be hidden anyhow. Ideally, the best stuff to use in a case like this is boiled linseed oil because it would penetrate deeper into the particle board, but then you're looking at a 3 or 4 day drying time.

If it wuz me, I'd use plumber's putty under the lip of the sink instead of silicone, but lotsa people use silicone.


----------

