# Spraying - But Cabinet Paint says not to Thin



## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

themus said:


> Went to use my new Harbor Freight Avanti HVLP spray gun today on my cabinet drawers. Manual says to time paint going through funnel. If more than 50 seconds, thin it. After 50 seconds, my paint was only a 1/4 way through the funnel.
> 
> Ok, I have to thin it. But paint can clearly states not to thin it. Based on that timing, it looks like I would have needed to thin it a lot!
> 
> ...



You can thin the paint, probably want to start around 15%


----------



## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Not the right setup for latex. You can thin latex a little, but too much and it compromises the paint integrity. 

I bought a cup gun at lowes that you can run latex through. $60. It has settings that pressurizes the cup just a little to help the paint flow. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-8-i...gKzkxmarQ4qDSplCl_BoCK6QQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

woodco said:


> Not the right setup for latex. You can thin latex a little, but too much and it compromises the paint integrity.
> 
> I bought a cup gun at lowes that you can run latex through. $60. It has settings that pressurizes the cup just a little to help the paint flow. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-8-i...gKzkxmarQ4qDSplCl_BoCK6QQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


This is very interesting. Couple questions come to mind in looking at it.

1. I have a Campbell Hausfeld DH650001AV Professional Spray Gun. The Lowe's gun looks very similar. Is there a difference?

2. The paint can states to use an Airless sprayer. If this is like mine, I have to hook it up to my Campbell Hausfeld air compressor. I have an inline water filter. Why would the paint can state airless if this would work?

Not questioning the post, just seeking understanding. I agree, it does seem if you have to thin the cabinet paint, you could end up weakening its properties.


----------



## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

themus said:


> This is very interesting. Couple questions come to mind in looking at it.
> 
> 1. I have a Campbell Hausfeld DH650001AV Professional Spray Gun. The Lowe's gun looks very similar. Is there a difference?
> 
> ...


It doesnt matter what your cup looks like. The one I linked is specifically designed for latex. Its different.

Yes, airless is the way to go for spraying latex, but it can be done your way.

Why havent you told us what kind of paint your using? Its kind of important.


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

Honestly? I didn't mention the name or brand due to those who swear by SW's and Benjamin Moore and find fault with any other type of paint. 

Behr Ultra-Pure White Base Semi-Gloss Interior Cabinet and Trim Paint.

Now the reason I went with this paint in order of most significant is below.

1. Color Match. I tried (2) $50 cans of Valspar Cabinet Enamel Base 1 Semi-Gloss Enamel Tintable Interior Paint. The first gallon Lowe's ate because they didn't come close to matching my color of my kitchen walls. The second gallon I purchased and found once applied to my interior cabinets it too did not match perfectly. {I ended up using it as a base coat and that made for a lot of painting!} Valspar received excellent commentary and reviews across the Internet.

2. The Behr cabinet paint was perfectly matched to my kitchen walls {actually the same color paint throughout the house. Very neutral Swiss Coffee. I hear gray is going out of fad and neutrals are coming back in. 

3. Availability. I know BM has some of the best cabinet paint on the market. There isn't a store within 50 miles of my house. SW is not too far, but I didn't want to have to pay for paint they didn't quite match. I doubt they would have been like Lowe's and absorb their mistake.

4. Debatable. I have over recent years ran across those who state the the prep work is 90% of what makes a good paint job and that Behr Premium paint will do just as well if applied correctly. Indeed, looking up the top cabinet paints on the Internet, Behr came up around 4th or 5th, with Lowe's just ahead of it. 

5. Purpose. My kitchen cabinets are the original. This house is 50 years old. I wanted to refresh them, painting them, and adding new fronts and doors. I improved significantly the poor paint job of the previous owners. I crawled, bent, and reached in painting these interior cabinets like no one ever did in this house. But they are never going to look like brand new, just installed cabinets. 

Ok. So now I am ready to hear how if I had purchased the right paint I would have no issue using my current spray gun or any other one for that matter.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

themus said:


> 3. Availability. I know BM has some of the best cabinet paint on the market. There isn't a store within 50 miles of my house. SW is not too far, but I didn't want to have to pay for paint they didn't quite match. I doubt they would have been like Lowe's and absorb their mistake.



Lowes and HD don't know how to match paints simple as that. I match cabinet paints all day.


----------



## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

themus said:


> Honestly?
> 
> Ok. So now I am ready to hear how if I had purchased the right paint I would have no issue using my current spray gun or any other one for that matter.


No, but Behr is certainly thicker than most paints, so its even harder to run through an HVLP. 

The problem is, the reason its thicker is because DIY'rs assume that thicker is better, and thats what its marketed for.

While I hate Behr, it will do the job on walls. However, its absolutely not suitable for cabinet painting. It doesnt have the durability or the adhesion . 

If you insist on using Behr, you should use the Behr Alkyd. Its not oil based. Its a hybrid, water cleanup. Its like a cheapo version of Advance, which is very good cabinet paint. You can thin it down a bit with distilled water, or maybe XIM extender (not floetrol) and it will run through an HVLP. Its still better to use an airless though. Its also pretty cheap, compared to real cabinet paints.

EDIT: I thought you meant Behr Premium. I just noticed thats not what you wrote. I have no experience with that stuff, but it sounds like a knockoff of breakthrough. 

Anyway, a lot of those kinds of paints say not to thin, but you can use up to 10% distilled water to make it sprayable. I still think youd be better off with the Behr Alkyd, though, cuz I highly doubt this is good cabinet paint.


----------



## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

What are you priming them with?


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

I used Bullseye 123 primer.

I used two coats of primer on the cabinets after lightly sanding and wiping down with a deglauser. 

Then two coats of Valspar Cabinet paint (used as a base coat since the color was not a perfect match) and then two coats of Behr Cabinet paint mentioned above. 

I ended up brushing it on in light of the no thinning on the can.

Just the cabinet doors and drawer front are left to do. I have to make them or buy them. 

I am going to call Behr's customer number tomorrow and run by them some of my questions. Calling attention to what has been brought up here and what I can learn from it. 

I don't mind admitting if I have made mistakes. After all this work, and it has been a lot, I will live with it. It's just my wife and I now so the cabinets won't take a lot of abuse. 

Still I would like to walk away learning about what paint can be thinned so that it does not loose its hardness properties. Right now I have four spray guns. Two purple HF guns, one, Avanti spray gun from HF and one Campbell spray gun. I look at them longingly wishing I could use them for the doors and drawers.


----------



## RRH (Nov 24, 2016)

You just need a better spray gun.

Harbor freight decent for some thing. Great deals. But dont expect top quality.


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

Is there a consistent opinion on the type of spray gun I should purchase. I have been looking at the one mentioned above from Lowe's. 

Recommendations?


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

So I called Behr's technical support. The guy was articulate and forthcoming. 

He said with a tip of .009-.015 I would not need to thin it at all. He said it was good cabinet paint and was produced to dry to a hard shell.

Now I stopped by Lowe's and the tip of the gun above is listed as .055. 

Then I have looked at the Graco unit and see the tip with one comes in at .015 or you can purchase smaller tips. These seem to be for large projects primarily. Not sure 15 cabinet doors and 9 drawer front qualifies. 

Any thoughts on the above?


----------



## geenowalker (Aug 19, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Lowes and HD don't know how to match paints simple as that. I match cabinet paints all day.


Can you be more specific? Where are you matching (SW, BM, etc) I am matching cabinets for new trim and never figured that HD nor Lowes would even be close.


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've never tried to have paint matched at a big box paint dept. I suspect they'd have a hard time getting closer than what the computer tells them. Most dedicated paint stores have one or more employees that will use the computer to get them in the neighborhood and then use their color matching skills to fine tune it. I've always been able to get a near perfect match with anybody's paint/sample from the folks at the paint store.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

geenowalker said:


> Can you be more specific? Where are you matching (SW, BM, etc) I am matching cabinets for new trim and never figured that HD nor Lowes would even be close.



I own a BM store it took me a few years to get any good at matching colors. In fact I do not need or rely on the 'color eye' machines. They just get me into trouble trying to use them.


----------



## geenowalker (Aug 19, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I own a BM store it took me a few years to get any good at matching colors. In fact I do not need or rely on the 'color eye' machines. They just get me into trouble trying to use them.


HAHA...I went to the local BM store yesterday. Took one of the new doors(cabient) to match for the crown moulidng. They gave me a quart of ADVANCE (I think) paint. We will see how they did.

On a weird note, the guy wanted to show me how close the color was and put a drop on the front corner of the door? WTF. I said "Its a brand new door. I will find out when I paint the trim. And why not the back or the door?" No managers there....kids.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Jan 12, 2018)

geenowalker said:


> HAHA...I went to the local BM store yesterday. Took one of the new doors(cabient) to match for the crown moulidng. They gave me a quart of ADVANCE (I think) paint. We will see how they did.
> 
> On a weird note, the guy wanted to show me how close the color was and put a drop on the front corner of the door? WTF. I said "Its a brand new door. I will find out when I paint the trim. And why not the back or the door?" No managers there....kids.



I actually find in many cases you cannot match to the back side of the door. The shops manufacturing these cabinets always put a thinner coat of paint on the back so it reads a slightly different color than the front.


the only way to know for sure is to put some paint on the surface then wash it off immediately.


----------



## geenowalker (Aug 19, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I actually find in many cases you cannot match to the back side of the door. The shops manufacturing these cabinets always put a thinner coat of paint on the back so it reads a slightly different color than the front.
> 
> 
> the only way to know for sure is to put some paint on the surface then wash it off immediately.


Interesting....learn something new every day.


----------



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Most paints dry darker than they are when wet. IMO the best way is to put paint on a card and dry it. That is how most of the paint stores I've dealt with do it.


----------



## geenowalker (Aug 19, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I own a BM store it took me a few years to get any good at matching colors. In fact I do not need or rely on the 'color eye' machines. They just get me into trouble trying to use them.


BTW...you (owner of BM store) seeing a big uptick in paperhanging? I did that for 5 years in highschool (worked for paperhanger)...I hate that stuff. I tear out drywall, re-drywall and paint other than pull paper. Took me a 2 days to pull the drywalll in kitchen and re-drywall with mud an paint. Couldnt bear the effort to see the sheen left behind from the glue.


----------



## themus (Jan 22, 2019)

So I purchased a Graco Magnum X5. I learned quickly on a test project it puts down paint fast. It sprayed the Behr paint without any issue using a 311 tip. Graco tech actually said Behr paint isn't bad paint. 

I learned a lot on this test project. Cleanup takes much longer than painting with it. They suggest running the unit to save the paint out of the line into a bucket. Got to ask them how to avoid it shooting back into your face. 

Question. The same rolled paint I used on the cabinet frames previously looks quite a bit darker than on my test end table project. Same primer. I sprayed it four times yesterday. No thinning. 

Any ideas? I put down a good bit on it. Spraying take more than four coats or do you need to do it over several days to dry and harden?


----------



## RRH (Nov 24, 2016)

themus said:


> So I purchased a Graco Magnum X5. I learned quickly on a test project it puts down paint fast. It sprayed the Behr paint without any issue using a 311 tip. Graco tech actually said Behr paint isn't bad paint.
> 
> I learned a lot on this test project. Cleanup takes much longer than painting with it. They suggest running the unit to save the paint out of the line into a bucket. Got to ask them how to avoid it shooting back into your face.
> 
> ...


Good small sprayer. But you really will do much better if you add a Fine Finish tip. Or FF tip

Also sounds like the different texture is making a difference.


----------



## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

themus said:


> So I purchased a Graco Magnum X5. I learned quickly on a test project it puts down paint fast. It sprayed the Behr paint without any issue using a 311 tip. Graco tech actually said Behr paint isn't bad paint.
> 
> I learned a lot on this test project. Cleanup takes much longer than painting with it. They suggest running the unit to save the paint out of the line into a bucket. Got to ask them how to avoid it shooting back into your face.
> 
> ...


.....

paints will sometimes dry darker the longer it takes to dry. Especially colors that have a lot of tint in them, I've noticed. I think this is what causes hatbanding as well. Also, certain brands of paint do this more than others (cough, cough, Sherwin, cough, cough) If you sprayed a heavy coat, compared to rolling a light coat, there could be a difference. I've even sprayed the side of an exterior house in the sun, and the shadow where my ladder was, dried ever so slightly darker than the rest of the wall.

Either way, sprayed, vs Rolled, are gonna look a bit different. I would just live with it, and move on. Most of the cabinets I paint, I do the boxes and frames by hand, and spray the doors. They look a tiny bit different, but noone ever notices but me.


----------

