# Opinion, would you choose to bury wire or run conduit to shed?



## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Direct burial is inherently failure prone or damage prone over time. It also requires a deeper trench (24") vs (18") for pvc. IMO pvc with individual thwn conductors is the better of options. Are you running a feeder to a sub-panel or branch circuit of 15 or 20 amps to the shed? If a branch circuit with max protection of 20 amps and gfci protected at it's beginning only 12" deep is required regarless of method.


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## danandbevsfarm (May 26, 2009)

*danandbevsfarm*

Personally, Piedmont, for that short a run, I always prefer conduit, It doesn't add a tremendous amount more to the project but adds a whole lot more security that your power line will not leak due to a curious gopher, mole, or even a rock impingement. You didn't say what size wire you were running but if you use conduit allow air space around the NM wiring. Example: 12/2 w/g in at least 1 inch conduit or 10/3 w/g in 1 1/4" or bigger. Dan


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

danandbevsfarm said:


> Personally, Piedmont, for that short a run, I always prefer conduit, It doesn't add a tremendous amount more to the project but adds a whole lot more security that your power line will not leak due to a curious gopher, mole, or even a rock impingement. You didn't say what size wire you were running but if you use conduit allow air space around the NM wiring. Example: 12/2 w/g in at least 1 inch conduit or 10/3 w/g in 1 1/4" or bigger. Dan



You *CANNOT* run NM wiring in conduit underground!! It is not rated for wet locations.


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

danandbevsfarm said:


> Personally, Piedmont, for that short a run, I always prefer conduit, It doesn't add a tremendous amount more to the project but adds a whole lot more security that your power line will not leak due to a curious gopher, mole, or even a rock impingement. You didn't say what size wire you were running but if you use conduit allow air space around the NM wiring. Example: 12/2 w/g in at least 1 inch conduit or 10/3 w/g in 1 1/4" or bigger. Dan


OOPS! You cannot use NM wiring in buried conduit, it must be THWN individual conductors or UF (but why bother with UF).

I would opt for PVC conduit and THWN conductors. That will give you many more options in the future and better protect the wiring.


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## Piedmont (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks all, sounds like conduit is the way to go! 

I haven't figured out yet what size wire I need, I'm teetering on a subpanel or not since my current panel is pretty full. 

When all said & done I will need 120 ft of wire from the breaker to the shed (with 40 ft under ground) and want it to supply a double-spotlight on the shed, a light inside the shed, and an outlet inside and outside the shed and be able to power an electric lawnmower with a 100 ft extension cord. I'm thinking a 20A breaker will do it, and conduit. What size wire do I need for 120 ft run (plus 100 ft of extension cord for my lawnmower)?


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## AndrewF (Dec 29, 2008)

For all my DIY projects, I always use conduit.

Mainly for the added protection/security of the line being damaged.


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## Silk (Feb 8, 2008)

It's only a shed. Just bury some UF cable 12 inches down on a 20 amp GFCI breaker and call it a day. The wire size will depend upon the current requirements of an electric lawnmower. What kind of current does an electric mower take?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I've used conduit everywhere
UF inside the shed & under my deck


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## Piedmont (Nov 1, 2007)

Silk said:


> It's only a shed. Just bury some UF cable 12 inches down on a 20 amp GFCI breaker and call it a day. The wire size will depend upon the current requirements of an electric lawnmower. What kind of current does an electric mower take?


It draws 12 amps.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Piedmont said:


> It draws 12 amps.


You can see you are already getting close to a 20 amp circuit just with the mower. Are you positive you will not need more power out there down the road?
If it were my shed, it would have a 60 amp sub panel fed with 1" conduit and individual THWN conductors. 4 wires.
Keep in mind you have to dig this trench. Why not cover your bases now. It would be a shame if you realized later on that you did not have enough power out there.
I might even go 1-1/2" conduit just to be sure. This way you could use larger wires if it ever becomes an issue. PVC is cheap, and wire is at a good price right now. Check wire prices at the supply house too.

Have you thought about renting a trencher? I would at least get a price.


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## thegonagle (May 20, 2008)

I ran a direct burial UF to my garage about a year and a half ago. If I had to do it again, I'd run it in PVC.

A 30" Ditch Witch chain drive trencher was about $140 for 4 hours from a local equipment rental house. That included a trailer, their "damage waiver," and tax. I don't really know if that's a good price or not, but that's what I paid.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

PVC is so inexpensive, it would be stupid to use direct burial.


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## vsheetz (Sep 28, 2008)

Run it in ample sized PVC today - change your mind in the future and then you can just pull bigger wires rather than dig another trench. 

I have also found the bottom of the trench is often the hardest to dig, depending on what you are digging through - if 6" not as deep, it's easier to dig.

Then again, if a single 20a circuit is enough for today and expected future needs, I would not go to the extra work and expence.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Most of my time it pretty much sop to run in conduit and be done with it due in the future that person can able upgrade it anytime without digging up again.

Most case If I have to rent a trencher it typically run for about €150 half day but for me I get contractor special so I go full day for that price espcally if you do multi trenchings { it did happend from time to time }

But only major gothca is if you have rocky soil or super hard soil better off rent a small or mini exvactor that useally run about €250 or so depending on the size.

Merci,Marc


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I had a Terramite backhoe at the house
Dug a trench for main SE to be buried
Then dug a trench between my shed & the garage foundation
I installed 3 conduits
Just in case I wanted to run a phone line or hard wire a network connection out there


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I had a Terramite backhoe at the house
> Dug a trench for main SE to be buried
> Then dug a trench between my shed & the garage foundation
> I installed 3 conduits
> Just in case I wanted to run a phone line or hard wire a network connection out there



I hear that Dave. I installed a gazebo last summer and ran only one 3/4" conduit out to it. Now I have to spend over $400.00 to buy wireless speakers. If I would have been thinking. :whistling2:


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## goose134 (Nov 4, 2007)

I ran the feed for my garage in GRC and the low voltage in EMT. Still haven't used the EMT, but it's nice to know it's there. EVERY time I have to fix a garage feed, it is direct burial.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

goose134 said:


> I ran the feed for my garage in GRC and the low voltage in EMT. Still haven't used the EMT, but it's nice to know it's there. EVERY time I have to fix a garage feed, it is direct burial.


You cannot bury EMT. I mean your not supposed to bury EMT. It will be rusted out in no time and non-compliant with NEC rules.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

*Conduit*

conduit


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## KGP (Feb 12, 2009)

I would (and did) use conduit to mine. Unlike Scuba Dave, I ran 2 and installed the wires (cat5, Cable, phone, speaker) at that time before the need to fish them through latter arose. I have already used up the network and cable... the morning I woke up and had a bug in me to do something, the job only ended up taking about 5 minutes... then I had the rest of the day to figure out what else I needed to do.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

J. V. said:


> I hear that Dave. I installed a gazebo last summer and ran only one 3/4" conduit out to it. Now I have to spend over $400.00 to buy wireless speakers. If I would have been thinking. :whistling2:


I have an old stereo in the shed, complete with turntable & 8-track
I have old speakers that I have picked up for free that I use outside. One just sits in the shed window, one is on a wire & I can put it outside the door & point it where I want it, 2 more are on either side of the bar
Eventually I want a switch on each one so that they can be turned off by someone sitting near them

I also ran conduit from the garage foundation out towards the front/side yard. Now that the garage is built I'll need to run the wire.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I have an old stereo in the shed, complete with turntable & 8-track
> I have old speakers that I have picked up for free that I use outside. One just sits in the shed window, one is on a wire & I can put it outside the door & point it where I want it, 2 more are on either side of the bar
> Eventually I want a switch on each one so that they can be turned off by someone sitting near them
> 
> I also ran conduit from the garage foundation out towards the front/side yard. Now that the garage is built I'll need to run the wire.


Dave, Not an option for me. The gazebo is open on all sides, but has a leak proof (so far) roof.

It's about 25' from my home office door. I have the music system here in my office. I plan to get a wireless speaker system. Then I can use my remote from the gazebo. Maybe (the wall is block) with a door. Then I can use my wireless router and lap top to play music from my PC. I have over 300 gigs of music on a portable hard drive.


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## erics37 (May 30, 2009)

The only time I ever touch UF or other direct burial cables is when I'm ripping them out to replace it with PVC and THWN.


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## Piedmont (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks all. I decided against a subpanel, as I don't plan on staying at the house for more than 5-6 more years. I'm putting in a shed cause can't stand another 5-6 years without one (and I don't have a garage) . I'll run a 20A GFCI circuit with THWN through oversized PVC conduit. 

I don't know if I'm lucky or not but the dirt on my property is sandy peatmoss that's over 10' deep. It's so easy to work in I can drive a 6' grounding rod in by hand without any use of tools. Good for digging, but can't hold water worth anything and my driveway easily warps when cars are parked on it for extended times even though the base of the driveway was done properly (if I redo the driveway I'll do cement so it doesn't warp so easily).


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