# Buying an electrical outlet costing .99 cents vs. $3.00



## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Were they the exact same, or was one the old style and the other a decora? The decora ones tend to be more expensive.

Funny you mention health care, because if it was a hospital grade receptacle it would be more like 20 bucks.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

A lot of times, they break down the bulk boxes to load the pick bins. I would go with a commercial outlet if used in a kitchen, for a/v equipment or bath/wet area if downstream of a gfci. What ever you do, only use the screws to secure, not "backstabbed".


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

The 99 cent receptacle unit is probably for at most 15 amps for each appliance plugged in. The 3 dollar unit is probably rated at 20 amps for each receptacle and probably constructed more ruggedly. It may also have easy to use connections in the back with screw down clamps that are just as reliable as the side screws.

Either will allow daisy chaining 12 gauge wires carrying 20 amps using the screw terminals or screw down terminals.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Mikon8er said:


> the model costing .99 cents, or the one costing $3.00. I am just asking if there is any difference is quality and/or safety between the ones that are allegedly used by contractors costing just .99 cents and the "higher quality" ones costing $3.00.


Many studies have confirmed that there is no correlation between price and quality. You might as well flip a coin.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Besides the clamping mechanism already mentioned often times the face material is different, the strap a heavier gauge material and the blade tension is better. All of those features increase the cost and typically the lifespan of the device.


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Be wary of the more expensive one: IF you have encountered one rated CO/ALR, you are paying a premium for a device designed for direct connection to aluminum conductors. Don't buy that one unless you absolutely need it for aluminum wires.

OTOH, if you are looking at a "specification grade" vs a cheapie, you might want to go for the better one.

How about posting the manufacturer and catalog numbers so we can tell you the REAL differences?


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

there is a big difference. The cheap ones have metal that just spreads apart when you plug something in. The memory in the metal pushes the prongs back together when you unplug. The more expensive ones have a spring loaded tab that spreads apart when you plug something in. When you unplug something, the spring pushes the prongs back together. The cheap ones wear out quickly if stuff is plugged in and removed all the time. If it is for behind a clock or something, use a cheap one. If its a receptacle that's going to be used constantly for general use, buy a good one


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

It is like the difference of door knobs on many homes as opposed to the door knobs on business, government, and school doors.

Notice the door knobs on commercial buildings are MUCH more higher quality - and also cost quite a bit more. You get what you pay for.

Same with outlets. A hotel may vacuum its rooms every single day of the year. They are plugging and unplugging the vacuum into the same outlet in each room 365 times a year. A commercial grade or industrial grade outlet will hold up to that heavy use. A cheap outlet would not last long.

FYI - There is a whole world of "commercial grade" products sold out there - Built for heavy use. You just don't see these in retail stores typically. For example search for commercial vacuum and you will see the vacuums used in hotels and businesses.

Or...
commercial locksets
commercial grade electrical receptacles
commercial grade lawnmower

Then for medical...
hospital grade receptacles

Leviton 5-20R Duplex Receptacle Hospital ...
http://www.onestopbuy.com/leviton/8300-7896.asp


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## Mikon8er (Nov 7, 2011)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the advice. My house has copper wiring, so I don't need to worry about using something compatible with aluminum wiring. Aluminum wiring hasn't been used in Canada nor the United States since the 1970s.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Mikon8er, actually they still use aluminum for electrical wiring. Not only for the drops to panels, but also for branch circuits.


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## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

jimmy21 said:


> there is a big difference... If it is for behind a clock or something, use a cheap one. If its a receptacle that's going to be used constantly for general use, buy a good one


I've got some $0.99 back-stab receptacles which get frequent and heavy use (e.g., in my kitchen and workshop), probably should be replaced with a better unit. Can someone give a specific recommendation -- manufacturer/model # -- to look for?


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

You want something like this: 20 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA 5-20R, 2P, 3W, Duplex Receptacle, Tamper & Weather Resistant, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Self Grounding, Side Wired, Nickel Plated Brass Strap – WHITE :... form $6.35 ea at Amazon.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

Just go to any place that sells electrical supplies and buy a nicer one. Cheap ones range in price from like .50 to a dollar. The good ones are like 2 to 3 dollars. You should be able to feel the quality just by looking at the outside, just by looking at the outside. But the internals are different too. 

Even on cheap receptacles, don't use the back stabs, ever. Wrap the wires around the screws


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Cheap is the way to go. Why spend more for basically the same thing. If you use a receptacle that much, you should put it on a switch. Think about it. How often do you unplug and plug things in.


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## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

J. V. said:


> ...If you use a receptacle that much, you should put it on a switch. Think about it. How often do you unplug and plug things in.


Workshop receptacle, plug/unplug sander, router, saw, etc multiple times per shop session. Do you really think each of those should be on a switch?


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## Toofarfromfenwa (Nov 6, 2011)

Leviton makes a pretty good outlet. No need for an industrial grade. More money than you'll want to spend. But, I do agree with the water resistant point. Especially in a kitchen. Not required by the NEC, but a good idea. 


And JV, I bet you buy cheap tools too.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

PPBART said:


> Workshop receptacle, plug/unplug sander, router, saw, etc multiple times per shop session. Do you really think each of those should be on a switch?


No. I would use a good grade receptacle in these areas. Would you put a $3.00 receptacle on a stairwell in your house?
A little common sense please.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

PPBART said:


> And JV, I *bet* you buy cheap tools too.


How much?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Actually I find it less expensive in the _long run_ to buy more expensive quality things which will last.

Also that makes my life more pleasant. I don't need to fix/replace everything constantly!


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## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

To the OP: are they the same amps? I was at Lowe's today and 15a outlets start at 59 cents. 20a outlets start at $3.50

Why the huge price diff there, I am not sure either!


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm no expert mind you, but I understand that code in Canada,unlike the US, says that 20A circuits MUST have the outlets with the "sideways slots" while 15A circuits MUST use the outlets with regular slots. am I wrong? maybe that's the dif between the cheapo and more expensive one?

tnx,


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## Toofarfromfenwa (Nov 6, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> I bet you buy cheap tools too





J.V. said:


> How much?


More than you want to bet. 



J. V. said:


> Cheap is the way to go. Why spend more for basically the same thing. If you use a receptacle that much, you should put it on a switch. Think about it. How often do you unplug and plug things in.


Yeah, you buy cheap tools. I'm willing to bet my posting history V yours. 

Cheers!


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Toofarfromfenwa said:


> More than you want to bet.
> Yeah, you buy cheap tools. I'm willing to bet my posting history V yours.
> Cheers!


Some of us here are actually real electricians and contractors. Prices are very important to us. I can say with complete confidence that 59 cent receptacles have their place. You see we work from specs which you do not. If the job specs a certain grade receptacle we use that receptacle. That way we can be relevant as far as job consideration.
I have installed my fair share of 59 cent ones. $3 dollar ones and $20 dollar ones. I can say the 59 cent ones hold up just as well as the rest do in the right application.
I could care less about posting history. I will gladly give all my posts to you if that will make you feel better. 

One more thing. I come here to help. Not to defend myself. This forum is for questions, comments and advice. I gave my advice. If you do not like it. Well you know what you can do.

Cheers!


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

I would buy both and disassemble them. The price difference might be the country of origin.



J. V. said:


> If you use a receptacle that much, you should put it on a switch. Think about it. How often do you unplug and plug things in.


How often?... ahhhh... all the time. 
I would think an electrician would use good quality products. 
Everyone has had experience with loose cheapo receptacles.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

About the only thing in my house that gets plugged and unplugged is the vaccum cleaner.

Everything else stays plugged in, and I use the cheapo's in my house.

My shop is different, but those receptacles were left over from a job that needed sepc. grade receptacles.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Clutchcargo said:


> ...I would think an electrician would use good quality products.
> Everyone has had experience with loose cheapo receptacles.


 
Not necessarily!

Some jobs electricians have are to wire up new tract homes being built. Low bidder gets the job. All the builder cares about is that everything works, looks ok, and passes inspection. So the cheapest outlets and switches are the norm.

And I have done this for other people. That is what they want. (If you are buying one of those homes, you can have one built with higher quality outlets or other things. But the price will of course go up.)

For *my* house, I want quality. And it is not that expensive for just one house. But if you are talking 25 or 50 homes being built, any little savings will add up to big bucks and more profit...


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

I guess you're right about the low bid but I'm disappointed. I had a number of loose receptacles that I swapped out that were junk.
The low bid is the same reason China became a manufacturing powerhouse.

I would add kitchen appliances and chargers to the list of things that are frequently plugged and unplugged.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Clutchcargo said:


> I guess you're right about the low bid but I'm disappointed. I had a number of loose receptacles that I swapped out.
> The low bid is the same reason China became a manufacturing powerhouse.
> 
> I would add kitchen appliances and chargers to the list of things that are frequently plugged and unplugged.


It's not all about bidding. It's about personal taste and misconceptions. The conception that 59 cent receptacles are junk is wrong. That is my conception after installing literally thousands of them over 35 years in this business. Thousands.
Does everyone consider plastic boxes junk? Some people do and some people don't. That does not make the plastic box anything but an option. Just like a 59 cent receptacle is an option over a $3 dollar one. If you must use the $3 dollar one, why not use the $20 dollar ones. 
It's what you like and what you prefer, nothing more. 
If you hire me to wire your house, I am going to use the least expensive receptacles I can find. Unless you spec different receptacles.
Some people think running conduit is the only way and some people think cable is the only way. See my point. 

As far as kitchen appliances. Tell me which ones you actually unplug and plug back in many times or even once a day? I bet you cannot come up with one.
Do you unplug the toaster after you use it, fridge, microwave? How many times do you actually unplug a charger? Don't we just normally remove the device? 
Someone mentioned China. Even the $20 dollar receptacles come from China. Name a device manufacturer that makes these things here in the US. I don't know of any, although they might exist.
And finally. "Loose" receptacles. Have you found this receptacle location to be high use? If so, get a better grade. 
I can say in my house I use the least expensive I can find and they are never loose. The opposite. To tight. Sometimes it takes all you got to unplug something.


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## Toofarfromfenwa (Nov 6, 2011)

J. V. said:


> Some of us here are actually real electricians and contractors.


Please don't assume, it just makes you look like a fool. 



J. V. said:


> Prices are very important to us.


I'm sure they are. 



J. V. said:


> I can say with complete confidence that 59 cent receptacles have their place.


Yes, I am sure they do. In the garbage where they belong. 



J. V. said:


> You see we work from specs which you do not.


I ork from the same "specs" so to speak. And this has nothing to do with "specs". IMO, you gave bad advice. 




J. V. said:


> If the job specs a certain grade receptacle we use that receptacle. That way we can be relevant as far as job consideration.


Are you serious? You mean to tell me that you have to use hospital grade in a hospital? STFU!?!?!?! Are you serious?!?!?! 

Yeah, perhaps you shouldn't talk down to people. 



J. V. said:


> I have installed my fair share of 59 cent ones. $3 dollar ones and $20 dollar ones. I can say the 59 cent ones hold up just as well as the rest do in the right application.


In the right application, sure. Like, something that get's thrown away, or something you don't care about. 



J. V. said:


> I could care less about posting history. I will gladly give all my posts to you if that will make you feel better.


It would make me feel better if I knew which company you owned, so I would never hire you. 



J. V. said:


> One more thing. I come here to help. Not to defend myself.


Sorry, this is an open forum. 



J. V. said:


> This forum is for questions, comments and advice. I gave my advice. If you do not like it. Well you know what you can do.
> 
> Cheers!


Yes, you gave your advice, and I gave mine. I think you're a cheap electrician. Nothing personal, just me personally, I would rather see a good quality job that lasts for years to come, than garbage.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

J. V. said:


> Some of us here are actually real electricians and contractors. Prices are very important to us. I can say with complete confidence that 59 cent receptacles have their place. You see we work from specs which you do not. If the job specs a certain grade receptacle we use that receptacle. That way we can be relevant as far as job consideration.
> I have installed my fair share of 59 cent ones. $3 dollar ones and $20 dollar ones. I can say the 59 cent ones hold up just as well as the rest do in the right application.
> I could care less about posting history. I will gladly give all my posts to you if that will make you feel better.
> 
> ...


i agree with you to a point, except the way i look at is, i KNOW this receptacle is going to be extremely low use, therefor it can get a low grade one, where as most places get better ones. Kind of same as you, but kind of the opposite at the same time. 


As far as what gets plugged in and unplugged. I put my toaster, coffee maker, blender, mixer away after each use. I just don't have the counter space to leave them plugged in at all times.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

analogmusicman said:


> I'm no expert mind you, but I understand that code in Canada,unlike the US, says that 20A circuits MUST have the outlets with the "sideways slots" while 15A circuits MUST use the outlets with regular slots. am I wrong? maybe that's the dif between the cheapo and more expensive one?
> 
> tnx,


I'm pretty sure this is the case. If I look at a 15 amp receptacle it says "125v 15a" so to me that means that's the max it is designed for. I always use the T slot plugs for 20 amp circuits just to be on the safe side and it's a quick way to know that it's a 20 amp circuit.

As for "cheapy" vs "well made". For general purposes the "cheapy" stuff will do just fine. Remember, it's still UL / CSA approved, so that means it's good enough to comply to those strict requirements. It's not like it's some Chinese rip off that is on the black market, it's still officially a "to code" device. 

I would MAYBE go with the high end grade for very specific uses, but even then, probably not needed.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

Red Squirrel said:


> As for "cheapy" vs "well made". For general purposes the "cheapy" stuff will do just fine. Remember, it's still UL / CSA approved, so that means it's good enough to comply to those strict requirements. It's not like it's some Chinese rip off that is on the black market, it's still officially a "to code" device.


right, they work fine, they just wear out much faster. Remember, an electrical installation isn't just supposed to work when its installed, its supposed to last 50+ years.


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## AndyinAtl (Mar 22, 2009)

jimmy21 said:


> right, they work fine, they just wear out much faster. Remember, an electrical installation isn't just supposed to work when its installed, its supposed to last 50+ years.


Ehhh... Define electrical installation. When I complete my taps inside a box then they should last forever. What ever I attach (be it duplex recps, sp or 3W switches, or lights) depends on how much they are used. Are you insinuating when i screw in a light bulb it should last 50 years? 

I have replaced comm grade recps that were slap wore out after a year. Use some common sense and think about what you are typing Mr. Jimmy.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Was that a $0.59 commercial grade receptacle?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Toofarfromfenwa said:


> Yes, you gave your advice, and I gave mine. I think you're a cheap electrician. Nothing personal, just me personally, I would rather see a good quality job that lasts for years to come, than garbage.


When I bought my first townhouse I was sure that the cheapest devices were used. Fifteen years later when i moved they were still installed without replacing one. Why waste money for no benefit?


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

I totally agree with "why waste money." I'm redoing my entire house and I tend to over-analyze everything. 
When it comes time to select receptacles, I'll go through the trouble of disassembling a cheap and a premium version to see if there is any difference. That's really what this conversation is about; nobody has done the due diligence to know what the difference is. 

Edit: I am surprised that a licensed electrician has not had the curiosity to discover this yet; just cheap-cheap-cheap is all that's offered.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

The following is from "Relay Contact Life" (Tyco Electronics). Although this discusses relay contacts, this will give a general idea of how different metals can last longer than others...

*Contact Materials*

*Fine Silver*
Fine silver has the highest electrical and thermal properties of all metals. It is the best general purpose material available. However, it is affected by sulfidation. The rate of sulfidation indoors in a metropolitan area is approximately 70 micrograms per square centimeter per day. This sulfidation forms a film on the surface of the silver which increases contact interface resistance.

Because silver and silver alloys sulfidate, contact pressures must be great enough to break through this film. (Controlled arcing will also be helpful in that it burns off the sulfidation, and contact overtravel wipes away the residue.) While such pressures have no appreciable effect on silvercadmium contacts, they do result in increased material wear of fine silver contacts. Also, an interface voltage of several tenths of a volt can result with fine silver contacts because of the sulfide film. This film has been known to capture and imbed airborne dirt. Breaking through this film generates electrical noise. Because of this, fine silver contacts are not used for low-level switching, such as audio circuits. Rather, fine silver and silver alloy contacts are for use in circuits of 12 volts, 0.4 ampere, or more.

*Gold-Flashed Silver*
For relays which must sit idle for long periods of time before initial operation, sulfidation of silver contacts can result in an impregnable contact interface resistance. Instead of specifying silver contacts for such applications, gold-flashed silver contacts should be specified. Gold flashing on each contact results in minimal sulfidation, and provides good electrical make upon contact. Because gold has a low boiling temperature, the flashing will burn off after just a few switch cycles if arc voltage and current is exceeded. The silver underlayment is then exposed, and may develop a sulfide film. Unless this situation can be tolerated, gold-flashed contacts should not be subjected to arcing.

*Gold Overlay*
A common contact for use in dry-and low-level circuits is gold overlay. The overlay is of sufficient thickness that it should not wear through to the base metal unless subjected to arcing conditions.

*Silver Nickel*
Depending on the application, material transfer may be quite prevalent with fine silver contacts. Typically, material tends to accumulate in the center of one contact, while the loss of material on the other contact leaves a hole, or “pit.” This pitting may cause premature contact failure. In such an application, it may be desirable to use fine grain silver contacts.

These contacts are alloyed with 0.15% nickel, which gives the contacts a fine grain structure. As a result, material transfer is evenly distributed across the entire surface of the contact and the contacts last longer.

*Silver Cadmium Oxide*
Silver cadmium oxide contacts have long been used for switching loads that produce a high energy arc. Silver cadmium oxide contacts are less electrically conductive than fine silver contacts, but have superior resistance to material transfer and material loss due to arcing. They do exhibit greater interface resistance between mated contacts, and also a slightly greater contact assembly heat rise. The minimum arc voltagerating of silver cadmium oxide is 10 volts and, like fine silver contacts, the silver in this alloy will oxidize and sulfidate. Therefore, an arc is necessary to keep these contacts clean.

*Silver Tin Indium Oxide*
Silver tin indium oxide contacts, although not readily available, exhibit better resistance to arc erosion and welding than silver cadmium oxide contacts. They are even less electrically conductive, though, and are harder than silver cadmium oxide contacts. They have greater interface resistance between mating contacts and, therefore, a greater voltage drop and heat rise. At the present time, silver tin indium oxide is more expensive than silver cadmium oxide, and many relay users limit its use to applications such as incandescent lamp loads and capacitors where there is a massive inrush current during contact bounce. For low and medium power resistive and inductive loads, silver cadmium oxide is still the most commonly used and is recommended by Siemens Electromechanical Components (SEC). For applications where it is believed that silver tin indium oxide should be used, contact SEC applications engineering.

*Silver Copper Nickel*
Silver copper nickel contacts are for use in high inrush DC applications such as incandescent lamps and capacitive loads. These contacts exhibit good resistance to welding.

*Gold Silver Nickel Alloy*
Gold silver nickel alloy contacts are for use in switching loads generally of less than one ampere, and are characterized by less electrical noise on make and break than fine silver contacts. Gold diffused silver contacts offer characteristics similar to gold silver nickel alloy, but are less expensive.

*Palladium*
Palladium contacts do not sulfidate or oxidize, and so offer extremely low electrical noise levels. They have an electrical life expectancy of approximately 10 times that of fine silver contacts. However, because of relatively poor conductivity properties, load currents are limited to about 5 amperes.

Palladium contacts require .006” to .012” overtravel to insure good wiping action. Because of this, they are used primarily on telephone-type relays—that is, relays on which the contact arms are parallel to the length of the coil, and on which such overtravel is easy to obtain. Also, palladium contacts should be bifurcated to help insure circuit continuity on contact closure.

*Tungsten*
Tungsten contacts are for use in high voltage applications, usually where highly repetitive switching is required. Tungsten has a melting temperature of 3,380oC which gives it excellent arc-erosion resistance. Tungsten may develop troublesome oxide films, especially when used as the anode contact in some DC applications. Therefore, tungsten is often used as the cathode contact, and a palladium alloy used as the anode contact. Such a combination also minimizes contact interface resistance and material transfer.

Full Application Note...
http://relays.te.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3236.pdf


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Then electrical receptacles have contacts which are "spring loaded" to apply pressure to the plug and therefore make good electrical contact...

And there is a whole world of "Spring Engineering" out there! Actually there is even a "springipedia.com"!

Some materials used for springs will keep their "springiness" better under various conditions like heat or in harsh corrosive environments. Some are better conductors of electricity.

Here is a "spring materials" chart...
http://springipedia.com/material-spring-materials.asp


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Then I saw that _beryllium copper_ was a spring material which also was good at conducting electricity. So I searched for "beryllium copper receptacle" and found the following (Bingo!)...

On Adobe reader page 11...
Leviton: Materials Used in Wiring Devices
http://stevenengineering.com/tech_support/PDFs/74IPD-R.pdf

"Leviton uses a phosphor bronze alloy of 95% copper and 5% tin to form power contacts in some *Industrial Grade receptacles*. Phosphor bronze power contacts at .031" *outperform* brass power contacts of a thicker gauge."


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

AndyinAtl said:


> Ehhh... Define electrical installation. When I complete my taps inside a box then they should last forever. What ever I attach (be it duplex recps, sp or 3W switches, or lights) depends on how much they are used. Are you insinuating when i screw in a light bulb it should last 50 years?
> 
> I have replaced comm grade recps that were slap wore out after a year. Use some common sense and think about what you are typing Mr. Jimmy.


I would say the same thing. Use a little common sense. Lightbulbs? Obviously some parts have a limited life expectancy. Also, there are going to be examples of stuff wearing out prematurely but how many houses have you gone in to from the 60's and 90% of the electrical is original? Hell, how many houses have you been in that are significantly older and most of the receptacles and switches are original. It's quite common. But the same isn't going to be true for the .59 receptacles. 

Also my comment wasn't directed at any particular piece of equipment. It's directed at the workers attitude. I get annoyed when people say "well its working fine and that's all that matters.". I have to say "its fine for now but in 5 years..... "

That's what u have to say to anyone that would show up at someone's door step to replace a wore out receptacle and uses a .59 cent receptacle. Just so their customers bill can be $81 instead of $83


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

jimmy21 said:


> I would say the same thing. Use a little common sense. Lightbulbs? Obviously some parts have a limited life expectancy. Also, there are going to be examples of stuff wearing out prematurely but how many houses have you gone in to from the 60's and 90% of the electrical is original? Hell, how many houses have you been in that are significantly older and most of the receptacles and switches are original. It's quite common. But the same isn't going to be true for the .59 receptacles. Also my comment wasn't directed at any particular piece of equipment. It's directed at the workers attitude. I get annoyed when people say "well its working fine and that's all that matters.". I have to say "its fine for now but in 5 years..... " That's what u have to say to anyone that would show up at someone's door step to replace a wore out receptacle and uses a .59 cent receptacle. Just so their customers bill can be $81 instead of $83


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

I've been an electrician for 17 years. What you're saying is a crock of shh...don't tell them it's a lie. I've wired thousands of houses and have never had any go backs, except for the garbage $50 waste of money arc/gfi breakers the NEC is pushing. I've had more warranty calls on those and end up replacing the breakers for GFI outlets. Unless you're in a workshop or commercial building and constantly hooking into an outlet, the $20 GFI at lowes is a waste of a dollar. Get the trio pack for $30. A GFI outlet that you paid $20 for is all a coin flip. Same concept that LED lights that are supposed to last for 30 years and you end up replacing the light in 6 months. It's a selling point. Manufacturer says lifetime is 10 years on that cheap outlet. Manufacturer says lifetime is 10 years on that expensive outlet. Bologna.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The last reply was 9 years ago. I doubt anyone is waiting.


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

Jim Port said:


> The last reply was 9 years ago. I doubt anyone is waiting.


Simmer Jimmer. It was intended for someone having an inquiry on the subject. I wasn't expecting a response.


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## Shadow99 (Nov 3, 2017)

Bryan311 said:


> Simmer Jimmer. It was intended for someone having an inquiry on the subject. I wasn't expecting a response.


That's great Bryan, there were thousands of people waiting over 9 years for that tid-bit of info.

Well Done 💀


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Makes you wonder how many people who haven't been here in almost a decade got an email from DIY-CHATROOM because of him.


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

I detect a bit of annoyance from the responses. You're either bored or a dealer of the acclaimed "better" product. As I said earlier, this was intended for future viewers inquiring on what to buy that is adequate for residential housing. I randomly googled the question and stumbled upon this page. The argument is not needed.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

For outlets that are plugged/unplugged frequently I get about 20 years from the cheap ones. As for the expensive ones, I have not yet outlived any.


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## betelgeuse (Jan 17, 2020)

This thread is a couple of months newer than the sticky about the 2011 NEC  Last response 2016


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

Old Thomas said:


> For outlets that are plugged/unplugged frequently I get about 20 years from the cheap ones. As for the expensive ones, I have not yet outlived any.


I'd love to hear what Kamtec or Acipco had to say about that. Their supplier doesn't have a lowes/home depot account. I've worked in both atmospheres. They have technicians for a purpose. Yes the Allen Bradley system fails . Yes the photo sensor eyes fail. Everything fails. They didn't make GFCI outlets 50 years ago. I'm beginning to wonder how far your background goes in the electrical field. Engineers get paid for a reason. I can only train green thumbs in the field. Google doesn't have all the facts.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I love a snarky newcomer.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk


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## betelgeuse (Jan 17, 2020)

Bryan311 said:


> They didn't make GFCI outlets 50 years ago.


You're right but barely. The first GFCI receptacle was introduced in 1972, only 48 years ago


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

1971


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Bryan311 said:


> I'd love to hear what Kamtec or Acipco had to say about that. Their supplier doesn't have a lowes/home depot account. I've worked in both atmospheres. They have technicians for a purpose. Yes the Allen Bradley system fails . Yes the photo sensor eyes fail. Everything fails. They didn't make GFCI outlets 50 years ago. I'm beginning to wonder how far your background goes in the electrical field. Engineers get paid for a reason. I can only train green thumbs in the field. Google doesn't have all the facts.


How does your post have anything to do with my personal experience? Are you implying that I am not truthful about what I have experienced? My background only goes back over 50 years.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Now who's snarky?


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Old Thomas said:


> How does your post have anything to do with my personal experience? Are you implying that I am not truthful about what I have experienced? My background only goes back over 50 years. Does yours, sonny boy?


Ok Boomer. Why don't you go yell at some teenagers?


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## seharper (Mar 17, 2020)

Bryan311 said:


> I detect a bit of annoyance from the responses. You're either bored or a dealer of the acclaimed "better" product. As I said earlier, this was intended for future viewers inquiring on what to buy that is adequate for residential housing. I randomly googled the question and stumbled upon this page. The argument is not needed.


Annoyance because you didn't bother to learn this community's rules and customs, just charged in. That usually doesn't result in a long stay. 

The term for adding new content to an old thread is called "to necro" as in "necromancer". Raising it from the dead. 

On almost all discussion forums, including this one, there's an etiquette or rule not to "necro" threads without a really good reason *(and thus, VERY unusual)*. So for you, who has a strong drive to "share your opinion", the answer is effectively "never".

The "to help google readers" is bunk. That might apply if, say, a Code change completely changed the question, e.g. like "can I retrofit ground" or "Do I need to bring neutral to a switch loop". But even then, it doesn't really help things to add it.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Ok Boomer. Why don't you go yell at some teenagers?


You need professional help, something like a team of experts at an institute Austria. You criticized my experience but I notice you did not state your years of experience, little boy.


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Old Thomas said:


> You need professional help, something like a team of experts at an institute Austria. You criticized my experience but I notice you did not state your years of experience, little boy.


How many more years experience do you think you'll need before you learn not to take a little playful ribbing personally?


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## Bryan311 (Dec 5, 2020)

Old Thomas said:


> How does your post have anything to do with my personal experience? Are you implying that I am not truthful about what I have experienced? My background only goes back over 50 years.


Sorry, but you're right. I was not alive at that time. This is the new era though. Things have changed since then. Electricians were geniuses and had 3 questions about their experience. "What color is ground? Phase 1 and 2? Neutral color? You passed the masters test." Don't get mad at my joke. I just tease. Lol


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

[delete]


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I have taken out many broken outlets in my time. They are almost always backstabbed (bad, as another poster just mentioned) and always of the el cheapo variety.

Here is the standard el cheapo outlet. It's what you might want if you have to have an outlet installed somewhere that you will rarely if ever use. For example code requires outlets at every so many feet along a wall. Maybe you have a big piece of furniture hiding it and you will never use that outlet. Or at worst you will plug a light cord into and leave it basically forever. In that case the cheapy might be fine.








Leviton 15 Amp Residential Grade Grounding Duplex Outlet, White R52-05320-00W - The Home Depot


Leviton's comprehensive residential grade receptacles portfolio includes devices rated for all residential applications in a variety of standard configurations. They are produced in an array of colors



www.homedepot.com





Here is an upgraded version. It's worth the money if the outlet is going to get some use (i.e. plugging and unplugging). It's too bad it's called "commercial", it should just be called "strong enough to be used for several years."








Leviton 15 Amp Commercial Grade Duplex Outlet, White R62-CBR15-00W - The Home Depot


Leviton's comprehensive commercial grade receptacles portfolio includes devices rated for all commercial applications in a variety of standard configurations. They are produced in an array of colors and



www.homedepot.com





Contrary to what some believe, you do not need 20 amp outlets just because the circuit is 20 amps (i.e. a 20 amp breaker with 12 gauge wire.) A 15 amp outlet is rated for that circuit. It's really 15 amps per _each_ outlet, not the entire receptacle. A 20 amp outlet is a special outlet that takes a special plug, and that is very rarely needed in a standard residential room.








Leviton 20 Amp Commercial Grade Duplex Outlet, White R62-CBR20-00W - The Home Depot


Make sure the most used outlet in your home is capable of handling the demand with the Leviton 20 Amp Commercial Duplex Power Outlet. Leviton Preferred grade devices are built to the most demanding standards



www.homedepot.com


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

[delete]


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

[delete]


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

[delete]


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Red Squirrel said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the case. If I look at a 15 amp receptacle it says "125v 15a" so to me that means that's the max it is designed for. I always use the T slot plugs for 20 amp circuits just to be on the safe side and it's a quick way to know that it's a 20 amp circuit.


Paying for a 20 amp receptacle is kind of silly if harmless. I'm not sure why I'd need to know if it was a 20 amp outlet - if I was at that point I'd be looking at the breaker and cable rating anyway, because any yahoo can put a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit if he wants to, so I wouldn't be able to rely on that anyway. I can't imagine why I'd need to know the circuit amperage by looking at the receptacle in my own home, but if it's a help to you, then go for it.

I mentioned this in a previous post but I guess it bears repeating. A duplex outlet rated at 15 amps is also rated at 20 amps pass-through. No device or appliance with a plug that fits into a standard 15 amp outlet can draw more than 15 amps. If it does draw between 15 and 20 amps, then it will have a special plug that can only fit into a REAL 20 amp outlet. So 15 amp outlets are allowed by code on 20 amp circuits.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

[delete]


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I like funny ribbing. You are not funny.


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## tom_poconos (Nov 6, 2017)

Basic 15A outlets are really cheap in bulk, I was surprised. The 10-pack of Leviton's I got recently worked out to about $1 each. Makes you wonder about the cost of things - I could buy 1000 receptacles for the price of an iPhone... it doesn't make sense.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I buy those 10 packs and I replace them every 20 years when they get tired.


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

Personally I like to buy the better outlets, ones with the side clamp to hold the wire and metal strap on the back. Especially for in my shop. And when I residing a house and need to replace a plug it is always the better ones. Run into a lot of exterior cheap plugs that are broken.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Side clamps are the best for installation. Longevity too, compared to backstabbing of course.


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## A Squared (Dec 19, 2005)

For what it's worth, this guy cuts apart a couple of receptacles and points out the differences.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

My house was built in the late 80a and every receptacle is back stabbed with about 1" of wire of outside the face of the box. Can't even turn the receptacle enough to release the back stabs. I remove them by crushing them with a pair of Channelocks. I use a commercial grade receptacle with back wire clamps. I have been replacing them all as need to do some work in a room changing color from ivory to white. I buy them in 10 quantities for under $2 each.

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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

So you probably got over 30 years out of the cheapest devices the builder used.


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