# What causes bubbles in paper tape?



## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

ponch37300 said:


> I've done a fair amount of drywall over the years and almost always seem to get some bubbles in the tape, spots that don't adhere that I have to cut out and fill in. I usually use sheetrock brand easy sand 90 minute or so mud with paper tape. I put a decent amount of mud on the joint and then put the tape on and put a little mud on my knife and run it down the tape applying pressure to get the tape to sit flat. Then let dry until next day. Then put second and third coat on to feather it out. Overall I can do an alright job for a DIYer but would like to learn what I'm doing wrong that causes these bubbles? Am I not leaving enough mud under the tape, to much pressure when bedding the tape? Or leaving to much mud under the tape? Not enough mud on top of the tape while it's drying?


I, and others have written tons on this. Use the SEARCH feature.

But one hint: NO mud on top of the bed coat, at all. And don't be afraid to wet things up a whole lot.... tape included. (Despite what pros will tell you. They already understand this stuff, you may not. Cheat, and get everything wet.

Now go do the SEARCH thing. :yes:


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Here to help. I hate looking up old posts so use a 4 inch knife thinned out well mixed mud sour cream consistency. apply the mud to the seam then I use my pan to hold on part of the tap as I drag my knife down the tape then go back an smooth out the tape that I held with the pan voila done! come back in the morning put the first coat on! easy cheesy squeeze. want to know how I learned how to do that. I watched Myron Ferguson on you tube. Just saved you 30 seconds of typing.


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## jsbuilders (Apr 13, 2013)

The mud on top of the tape is causing the bubbles.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Wrong mud----Use Multipurpose--green lid--it is designed to bed tape and contains glue.

Like others said--thin the mud--do not top coat it until the bedding coat is dry.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Same problem here. Today was my first attempt at trying to tape. I used paper tape and all purpose mud. So many bubbles that I couldn't squeeze out that I took off the tape and threw it out. I had prefilled with hot mud (the joint was between an existing plaster wall and drywall) and both sides of the joint were pretty smooth, but at slightly different angles. After removing the tape I decided to make the surface where the tape goes totally flat (same angle for old and new wall) before taping rather than after. That will require another coat in 24 hours, and I'll use new compound. I may have added too much water or mixed in too much air. I'll stick with paper tape this time because I already put premix on and I don't want to keep alternating (mesh should be used with hot mud) but from now on when there's any imperfection in the walls or the joint isn't perfectly filled or the mud is a little old, I'm using hot mud and mesh.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

there should be no need to thin the tape mud. the green lid which should be used is already pretty soupy. and i think i know what your talking about. the tape looks fine and when you go over the joint it bubbles up. there is no mud under the paper. if you felt the tape better coating it you'd feel that it feels hollow and once wetted it pops out on you.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

I used green lid but I guess it was too old and thick. And it took me a few minutes to apply the mud to the wall before the tape so it got even thicker on the wall, and I didn't wet the tape.

Someone needs to think up a consistency test. I haven't had sour cream in years.


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

So the bag mix stuff is no good for bedding the tape? Here I always thought hot mud was good for taping and have only used the premixed stuff for top coating?

From the sounds of it I am squeezing to much mud out from under the tape when bedding it. And using the wrong mud.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I love it. There are literally several hundred thousand words written in this forum on this subject... in great detail............................. but the desire seems to be to get the answer here and now in a few lines in maybe 6 or 8 posts.

All I can say is..... "Get used to the bubbles." :no:


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

I searched again and this seemed like another good thread but even there people are saying to search for other threads. In that thread someone had to wait for the tape to dry before he found bubbles. I think I'll use mesh and hot mud.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Ponch: try Fibafuse. I'm probably going to order it too. It's like paper tape with holes so bubbles shouldn't be a problem. I read that it doesn't flatten out as easily with a taping knife, but you just have to hold the unmudded part to eliminate slack. Mesh is easier to find but it's not good for corners.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

I have never had bubbles in my tape. maybe I use a libral amount of mud and don't over work the tape. All you do is put the tape on the mud run your knife over it one time your done! Don't over work it. Simple easy


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

you can use hot mud for taping but you have to be careful. as soon as it starts setting up the paper wont stick. and mud on the wall will set quicker then what you have in your pan. green mud dries pretty quickly and theres no real need to rush that much.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Just my $.02 Like Willie T says cut your tape to length roll it up put in a bucket of water, pull it out and pull it between your fingers to remove the excess and you will never have bubbles. And Prince I don't think I have ever opened a bucket of all purpose that didn't need thinned some. Straight from the bucket it's thick and hard to pull. The light weight yea. And easy sand is great for fill and first coat.
Good to see you back Willie T.


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

Willie T said:


> I love it. There are literally several hundred thousand words written in this forum on this subject... in great detail............................. but the desire seems to be to get the answer here and now in a few lines in maybe 6 or 8 posts.
> 
> All I can say is..... "Get used to the bubbles." :no:


Willie, I did search after your first post and found some previous posts on the subject and have learned a lot. I figured since this topic was already up and others were posting friendly answers I would follow up with a second question to make sure I understand everything. I'm really sorry that it upset you so much and that I wasted precious time from your life. Guess I don't see the point in just writing posts to complain about others not searching? If you feel that way why not just skip over the thread? Obviously others that don't have the same attitude as you are posting answers to help others. I'm sure every question anybody can ask has already been answered on here, should nobody ever ask another question? Just seems silly that you get so worked up and willing to take the time writing a post to complain instead of maybe linking to the best advice you have writing on the subject. When one of your friends or kids comes up to you and asks for your advice do you just tell them to google it and then go on about how they are lazy and what not? 

Once again, sorry to cause you all the trouble.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

any green lid mud needs thining or it is hard to pull.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

watch this no bubbles easy way to tape. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3ME-c96874
done by that dry wall guy


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Hyde Self-Adhesive Perforated Joint Tape. It's paper tape with holes. Fibafuse is fiberglass which is more dangerous when sanded and maybe even when cut, so I'm sticking with paper. Anyone try the Hyde tape?


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## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the video link and to everyone else that provided the good info.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Dorado said:


> Hyde Self-Adhesive Perforated Joint Tape. It's paper tape with holes. Fibafuse is fiberglass which is more dangerous when sanded and maybe even when cut, so I'm sticking with paper. Anyone try the Hyde tape?


 
dangerous?:huh:


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

the cgc green box mud i use is soup right out of the box and is much heavier then any other mud that i've seen. i wouldnt even consider putting water in it and i find it so watery that i've been searching for a mud with glue in it that is thicker. the only mud i've found that is thicker and sets the tape pretty good is cgc dust control.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Dorado said:


> Hyde Self-Adhesive Perforated Joint Tape. It's paper tape with holes. Fibafuse is fiberglass which is more dangerous when sanded and maybe even when cut, so I'm sticking with paper. Anyone try the Hyde tape?


I just googled a bunch of sites for Fibafuse and not one of the said fiberglass although a couple said a fiberglass like product and one said a glass mat. Have looked at that perforated tape and would never use it. The holes are so small there is no way they would give you a good seal. If you put the mud on first you couldn't get enough out from under it and if you put the tape on first ( I think it's self sticking) there is no way mud could get behind it. IMO another DIY gimmick.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Paper tape paper tape paper tape! Only time I would use mesh if for a small patch job.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

The MSDS says Fibafuse contains "fiber glass" but down plays the danger:



> The essential point to remember is that glass filaments are not “respirable” as they are over 3 μm in diameter and have been shown not to cause lung cancer.


I figure sanding can produce smaller particles. If I'm right then the MSDS is misleading. It also says Fibafuse contains Formaldehyde and:



> OSHA requires companies where the concentration of airborne formaldehyde exceeds the TWA or the STEL, to establish regulated areas and post all entrances and access ways with signs bearing the following information as: “DANGER, FORMALDEHYDE IRRITANT AND POTENTIAL CANCER HAZARD, AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY.”


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

My new 12 lb bucket of green lid is thicker than I thought. The ridges from filling the container never settled. It has directions for thinning. I'll follow them and wet the tape and put it on a really smooth well mudded surface in a day or two.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

you don't need to wet the tape. Just put on about a 1/8 of a inch of mud then put the tape on it. But yes that mud needs to be thinned and use a good paddle mixer.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Dorado said:


> The MSDS says Fibafuse contains "fiber glass" but down plays the danger:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure sanding can produce smaller particles. If I'm right then the MSDS is misleading. It also says Fibafuse contains Formaldehyde and:


 
Come on
Have you read the msds for gasoline you put in your car thousands of times?:whistling2:

*Potential Health Effects
Eyes:​*​​​​Contact with eyes may cause irritation, redness, tearing, stinging,
watering and blurred vision.​
*Skin:​*​​​​Contact with skin may cause irritation, itching, redness and skin damage.
Prolonged or repeated contact may cause drying and cracking of the skin,
and may also cause dermatitis and inflammation. (See also section 11).​
*Inhalation:​*​​​​Breathing high concentration can be harmful. Throat and lung irritation
may occur. Central nervous system effects including nausea, euphoria,
dizziness, headache, fatigue, drowsiness or unconsciousness may occur
due to long term or high concentration exposure to vapors.​
*Ingestion:​*​​​​Toxic if swallowed. This product may cause nausea, vomiting, dizziness,
drowsiness, diarrhea if swallowed. Central nervous system effects may
be caused. Swallowing this product can result in severe lung damage
and/or death.​
*Signs / Symptoms:​*​​​​When overexposed to this product effects such as nausea, vomiting,
blurred vision, respiratory failure, central nervous system depression,​
unconsciousness, tremor, death may occur.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

ponch37300 said:


> Willie, I did search after your first post and found some previous posts on the subject and have learned a lot. I figured since this topic was already up and others were posting friendly answers I would follow up with a second question to make sure I understand everything. I'm really sorry that it upset you so much and that I wasted precious time from your life. Guess I don't see the point in just writing posts to complain about others not searching? If you feel that way why not just skip over the thread? Obviously others that don't have the same attitude as you are posting answers to help others. I'm sure every question anybody can ask has already been answered on here, should nobody ever ask another question? Just seems silly that you get so worked up and willing to take the time writing a post to complain instead of maybe linking to the best advice you have writing on the subject. When one of your friends or kids comes up to you and asks for your advice do you just tell them to google it and then go on about how they are lazy and what not?
> 
> Once again, sorry to cause you all the trouble.


That's OK. You may eventually learn.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

With the all purpose compound, you're supposed to "rotate stock every 90 days." I just put mud on the wall that I opened about 6 months ago. :huh:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Dorado said:


> With the all purpose compound, you're supposed to "rotate stock every 90 days." I just put mud on the wall that I opened about 6 months ago. :huh:


Opened mud CAN develop mold in the bucket. Seldom, but possible.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Willie T said:


> Opened mud CAN develop mold in the bucket. Seldom, but possible.


That can be controlled Willie. After you open the bucket and use what you need take a wet cloth or brush and wipe down the sides. Then put enough water in the bucket to cover the mud, then add a little bleach and seal the bucket. The bleach will keep the mold and bacteria from growing. When you are ready to use just pour off the water and mix your mud.


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## thatbobguy (Apr 12, 2012)

I use spark-perforated tape - the tiny holes prevent air entrapment behind the tape - hence, no bubbles.

http://www.certainteed.com/Products/313818


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Have never seen or heard of it, but if it's anything at all it's better than mesh.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Ooo...I have to get that. The other paper tape with holes that I mentioned comes from a company that I don't trust.


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