# Deck Framing - Beams on top of footing (not enough space for post)



## Maatoy (May 30, 2010)

Hi All, I am a newbie trying to build a deck (no experience). 

The deck that I am planning to build is only 23" above ground. It will be a floating/free standing deck. I am using Azek deck boards (1" thick), 2X10 PT joist on top of two 2X10 PT beam. The footing will be concrete 11" diameter, 48" below grade to protect from the Canadian weather.

The deck board and joist and beams will add to 19.5" inches. Factoring in 1" for post stand off, the overall height is 20.5" leaving only 2.5'(23" less 20.5"=2.5"), which I believe is not enough for a post.

How can I address the gap of 2.5"? Can I make the concrete footing to be above ground by 2.5" and then attach a post base connector to the footing and then attach/rest the beam on the post base?

I was planning to use the Simpson ABU66 post connector for attaching the beam to the footing. Is this the right one?

Thanks for your guidance.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

Maatoy said:


> How can I address the gap of 2.5"? Can I make the concrete footing to be above ground by 2.5" and then attach a post base connector to the footing and then attach/rest the beam on the post base?


Yes, you can. You can also use a flush beam and joist hangers for the joists. This will give you room for posts if you want. Raising the footing is easier. Make sure they are perfect.


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## mark2007 (May 24, 2010)

The way to do this is put your footing below the frost line ( every area is different ) then have a sono tube off the footing come up to the underside of your framing eliminating the need of a wood post


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

The advantage of using wooden posts is that, after they are in place, they can be sawn off to make them perfectly level.

Mounting the beam directly onto the piers makes leveling harder. However, if you level off the top of the Sono tubes, it should be pretty close.

Have you considered the possibility of adding a roof later?


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## Maatoy (May 30, 2010)

Thank you all for your help so far.

I am a bit worried about getting the piers levelled. it will be a challenge. I guess I don't have a choice. Any techniques I can use to make it a bit easier? I am planning to use a water line level. 

I am not planning to add a roof.

How about the Simpson ABU66 post connector for attaching the beam to the footing. Is this the right one? Any suggestions.

Thanks a lot.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

How far out of the ground are your tubes going to be?

You did say you were tight on room for everything, if you hanger your joist off the beam you gain 9 ½” so that problem should be solved.

The advantage of having post on top of the concrete is so your tubes don’t have to be perfect. The post can be just a few inches high but ensure you a level beam.

Just don’t want to see you back here next week asking how to deal with a tube of concrete that’s ¾” to high.

You don’t want to use a 6X6 post base (ABU66) for a 4X.


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## mark2007 (May 24, 2010)

In the thousands of decks I have built using builders level or water line level its almost impossible to be off (a water line level works on gravity and gravity is never off or broken) If so some bizarre reason your 3/4" off shims will fix it


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

In the thousands of decks you’ve built do you pour your concrete up to the bottom of the beams Mark?


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## mark2007 (May 24, 2010)

If the finished deck is only 2' or less of the ground yes. Typically the decks we build are 8' to 19' off the ground. When there is a request from a customer to build a close to grade level deck we usually make a patio area instead, but sometimes there are reasons that a slightly elevated deck is appropiate.


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## Maatoy (May 30, 2010)

I too prefer to put a wood post on top of the footing. My concern is two fold: 

(1) If I go with a post, it will only be around 2.5". My concern it is too thin that It crack and split once the load is on. I was hoping that the risk may be a bit lower if I use a 6X6 post. Not true if this a valid assumption.

(2) My second concern is will there be enough space to attach a post to beam connector (e.g. Simpson AC6). After nailing the connector, I guess a 2.5" high (thick) 6X6 will very likely crack.

This might be a dumb question but I will ask anyways. If the footing is slighly higher than it should be, Is it safe to cut the beam where it attaches to the connector? 

If the footing is a bit low, are there metal shims available that I can use to raise the height a bit?

Thanks


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## mark2007 (May 24, 2010)

you keep saying footing above grade the footing is typically below grade and a sono tube filled with concrete usually 8" becomes your concrete post and then if you want a wooden post is put on top with the saddle in the concrete post


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## Maatoy (May 30, 2010)

Sorry, I am not familiar with the terms. Thanks for clarifying.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Maatoy said:


> I am a bit worried about getting the piers levelled. it will be a challenge. I guess I don't have a choice. Any techniques I can use to make it a bit easier? I am planning to use a water line level.


 
Not a carpenter by any means, but we often times drill & pour sono tubes for decks for the carps. Many have a beam across the posts, so they need to be fairly level. Normally, we will just stake a 2x4 on one, or both, sides of the tubes for the length of all the tubes. A short roofing nail thru the cardboard tube into the level 2x4 (s) will keep your tubes from movign during the pour.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Maatoy said:


> I too prefer to put a wood post on top of the footing. My concern is two fold:
> 
> (1) If I go with a post, it will only be around 2.5". My concern it is too thin that It crack and split once the load is on. I was hoping that the risk may be a bit lower if I use a 6X6 post. Not true if this a valid assumption.
> 
> ...


 Here's a link to an adjustable Simpson connector ( http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/EPB44T.asp ) that may work for you!
When you assemble the beam, it will require a 1/2 spacer between the 2X10's to fit the connector opening.
It may be possible to sister a section of 2X8 to the joist to bolster the notch cut in the joist, but it appears to me that the adjustable connector would be your best bet!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Notch with no sister: http://arch.umd.edu/Tech/Structural...Wood_Products/Notching_&_Boring_Guide_A11.pdf

Be safe, Gary


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

GBR in WA said:


> Notch with no sister: http://arch.umd.edu/Tech/Structural...Wood_Products/Notching_&_Boring_Guide_A11.pdf
> 
> Be safe, Gary


 Gary, I tried your link and it failed to connect. Is it the link or is it me?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Sorry, mine stopped too. I'll need to find a replacement...... Meanwhile, page #32: http://books.google.com/books?id=iw...=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA32,M1

Be safe, Gary


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

GBR in WA said:


> Sorry, mine stopped too. I'll need to find a replacement...... Meanwhile, page #32: http://books.google.com/books?id=iw...=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA32,M1
> 
> Be safe, Gary


 Thanks Gary! I'm thinking after reading about notching, that it would OK to notch the joists but not OK to notch the beam.
Am I correct in this assumption ?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

In this case the OP is doubling joists for a built-up beam, so I would think, yes. 

Only 1/10th on a glue-lam of the tension side (bottom) : ttp://www.rosboro.com/pdfs/S560E.pdf

Again, drill a hole at the horizontal/vertical cut: http://www.finehomebuilding.com/PDF/Free/021184090.pdf

The answer is: http://books.google.com/books?id=Q8...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCA


Perhaps an Engineer would share their thoughts, especially if I'm wrong....... 



Be safe, Gary


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