# Welder



## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

Any ideas or recommendations on a welder? I'm wanting to use it for some light duty repair work, fabrication of furniture, tools, etc.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Have you welded before?


A MIG welder is probably the easiest to learn on but there are a lot of downsides to a MIG.

a stick welder is probably the most versatile but it is more difficult to master as well as other issues

TIG welding is great for light weight material but the welders are generally more expensive and the learning curve can be big. In the hands of a skilled welder they can produce probably the most attractive weld of the 3 main tupes of welders. They are not generally used for welding thicker metals so if you are into industrial stuff, they would probably not be the best choice.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,... At a bare minimum go with a 135/ 140 amp 120v wire feed mig, with or without gas,....

The little 90 amp machines run outa power if yer base metal is anymore than tin,...


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,... At a bare minimum go with a 135/ 140 amp 120v wire feed mig, with or without gas,....
> 
> The little 90 amp machines run outa power if yer base metal is anymore than tin,...



Not to hijack, OP... I too am looking for a welder. 

What is the advantage of the mig with gas? Is it just used for shielding? About how thick of metal will the 135/140 weld?

Can you recommend a decent, reasonably priced make? Any makes to avoid?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Well, actually it isn't a MIG unless you have gas. Metal inert gas, or more accurately, gmaw or gas metal arc welding. 


Without the gas it is a wire welder. You must use flux core wire.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

47_47 said:


> Not to hijack, OP... I too am looking for a welder.
> 
> What is the advantage of the mig with gas? Is it just used for shielding? About how thick of metal will the 135/140 weld?
> 
> Can you recommend a decent, reasonably priced make? Any makes to avoid?


Ayuh,.... The gas is for shieldin', 'n only good Indoors,....

Many of my welds are done Outdoors, so I pretty much run flux-core wire in my smaller portable welders,....
Only my monster Lincoln 200 uses gas, both for steel, 'n aluminum,...

I once had an ole Craftsman/ Century 90amp unit, that eventually grew legs, 'n walked away,...
It would weld 1/8", 'n little more,...

I replaced it with a 135 amp Lincoln portable 120v machines,....
It would handle up to maybe 1/4" plate,... Tops,....
That is now my 2ndary machine that stays at the river house,...

My newest greatest machine is a Hobart Trek 180 amp, which uses battery technology, over the more popular capacitor technology,....
It'll run 'bout 4 to 8 inches of weld, just on it's batteries,....
It'll run on just the 3000w inverter jumpered off my truck,...
With the extra 40 amps, it'll easily weld 1/4" plate, or more, with multiple passes,...









While it's possible, the cheap Chinese welders might do the job for ya, I'd rather bite the bullet, 'n buy a machine from a big name builder,...

Used on ebay, or craigslist can get ya into a decent machine, without the price shock,....
The only welder of the Many I've owned bought New is the Trek, 'n it was a salesman's demo unit,...


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed post Bondo.

Not planning on welding thicker than 3/16", so the 135 size should do fine. How is it for the thinner stuff ~ 20 gauge? 

I hear you there about the Chinese stuff, I'll check on e-bay or buy new. Any tips on what to look out for buying used?


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

there are so many brands to choose from....... mig that can burn 023-030 wire would be ok. the 120v ones like 20amp circuit that is short in length.

for light duty say up to 1/4"max mild steel, the 120v versions with gas should be ok. i had chinese from harbor freight for years, it was adaptable to gas cylinder and i quickly moved it to gas. you can get the 120v migs to run a tad hotter with a helium/argon mix.

the mini 120v/240v inverter tigs are nice too, but the small ones are usually DC only. i like tig because it make no splatter mess, so be warned, especially if you use flux core wire. 

i have esab 161 tig and a miller 251 mig for all my DIY stuff...... both run 240v...... and i do gas mixing for some tasks like thicker AL.

my advice, if you want good support go with some of the bigger names in welding like miller, lincoln, esab, etc etc.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

A used TIG is better than a new MIG if cost is an issue. Most TIG welders can also be used for arc welding if doing something heavy.
Don't ever assume will only go as thick as 3/16" because something always comes up. 
For 20 ga steel, the TIG will work wonders.

Can you tell I like TIG? :laughing:


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> A used TIG is better than a new MIG if cost is an issue. Most TIG welders can also be used for arc welding if doing something heavy.
> Don't ever assume will only go as thick as 3/16" because something always comes up.
> For 20 ga steel, the TIG will work wonders.
> 
> Can you tell I like TIG? :laughing:


tig or stick, its only as good as max amps, etc.........


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

123pugsy said:


> A used TIG is better than a new MIG if cost is an issue.


Not so much of a cost issue, but I'd look like a one armed paper hanger trying to learn TIG :laughing:


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

47_47 said:


> Not so much of a cost issue, but I'd look like a one armed paper hanger trying to learn TIG :laughing:


TIG not that hard to learn. its gets harder with other metals like SS and AL, and when you start mixing gases and want to use a pulser.

basic mild steels, TIG should be easy to learn. it is more $$ to run though because Argon not cheap these days. MIG you can run co2, or mixed co2/argon, etc.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

concrete_joe said:


> tig or stick, its only as good as max amps, etc.........


100 amps stick welding is plenty for about up to 1/4" steel.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

concrete_joe said:


> TIG not that hard to learn. its gets harder with other metals like SS and AL, and when you start mixing gases and want to use a pulser.
> 
> basic mild steels, TIG should be easy to learn. it is more $$ to run though because Argon not cheap these days. MIG you can run co2, or mixed co2/argon, etc.


I agree with the aluminum. That's some tough stuff to weld.

Actually, for learning, stainless is good. It doesn't spit or spatter when fusion welding. Tacks up real nice too. I'm talking about learning to get the feel of course. Not about practice that will net panels without waves or distortion after welding. Just to get the feel as it fuses so well.

A metal shaper on one of the sites welds sheet metal exclusively with oxy acetylene. This leaves the material more pliable than MIG or TIG when it's done. I tried fusing some scrap together and managed a bit but it's not easy and requires gap free fit ups. But rod can be added just like TIG. Steel, not the brazing rod that I've only seen others use.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

47_47 said:


> Not so much of a cost issue, but I'd look like a one armed paper hanger trying to learn TIG :laughing:


Not really. Just grab some scrap and play. If you get a machine, post on here and you'll get the guidance you need.


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

SS sugar is a pita, better learn how to use flux or purge, etc.....


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

47_47 said:


> Thanks for the detailed post Bondo.
> 
> *Not planning on welding thicker than 3/16", so the 135 size should do fine. How is it for the thinner stuff ~ 20 gauge? *
> 
> I hear you there about the Chinese stuff, I'll check on e-bay or buy new. Any tips on what to look out for buying used?


Ayuh,.... That's what the dials on the machines are for,.....

A 135a machine weldin' 3/16 is gonna have it's power dial turned up to High, or near it,....

Weldin' sheet metal, ya turn the power dial down to where ya can weld without burn through,...
If it's still too hot, spot weld it, pulse the trigger, puddle, cool, puddle, cool, etc,...
I've always run either .030, or .035 flux core wire,...
My wire speed, always seems to end up 'bout 3 or so on the dial,...
mig'ing aluminum, the speed dial is most always at Max, fast as possible,...
If ya wanta do tin, try some .023 wire,...

A mig, Ain't gonna weld beer cans, soup cans would be tough,...
Auto bodies, All day long,...
though newer cars, ya might end up spottin' it,....

I ain't got a tig,....
My wishlist starts with a plasma cutter,...
tig is down the list, somewhere,...


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

after reading all the posts I have to agree with pugsley regarding the TIG, to an extent. I do not currently own anything but a good old fashioned stick welder but have welded with SMAW (stick) , GMAW (mig) , and GTAW (tig). If a TIG is considered, one must realize the negatives as well as the benefits.

Of course shield gas must be able to be contained. It must also be purchased. There are also the electrodes to to deal with. 

. TIG is very versatile, just like my stick, since you can purchase various types of feed rod and gas variations and electrodes it allows an easier than MIG to deal with various metals but given what TIG is, it is capable of doing things that are difficult if not impossible to do with a stick. 

Also, as with mig, tig is tough outside if there is any wind which makes it a negative. Not an issue with a stick unless you are trying to weld in a hurricane.

They are not as portable as my stick welder (due to the gas bottle)

if you are using it outside or want any portability, a thumb controlled torch is a good idea as a foot pedal is impractical unless you are in a shop.



and no, TIG welding is not as difficult as many believe. Just like any welding, there is a learning curve. The more you do, the better you (should) become.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

nap said:


> Have you welded before?
> 
> 
> A MIG welder is probably the easiest to learn on but there are a lot of downsides to a MIG.
> ...


No I have not. I have gotten into woodworking, etc. and feel like if I could learn to weld, I'd be able to extend possibilities. I'm stubborn enough to DIY as much as I can and welding is something I've needed from time to time, but since I don't have a welder, it's never been an option.

I'm not looking to break the bank and I don't mind buying used. I can't imagine needing to weld anything larger than some basic angle iron or repairs on mowers, fabrication of table legs, etc.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Personally, as I said before, a simple ac/dc stick welder is about as versstile as you can get. The biggest downside is welding thin material is much more difficult with s stick


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

stick welding can be a pita, starting stick is not fun, my tig unit has high freq start so its a tad easier, and rod flux leaves a mess.

stick "may" be easier, but certainly doesnt make the overall project easier.

i would suggest finding a local college or welding outfit who might do a free class this way you can experience each.

the easiest will be mig imho. thin sheet with mig is typically stitched, then ground down. if thin sheet is not in the mix and you are doing only mild steel, i would recommend ~130A mig for a DIY'er newbie weldor. a good brand 120/240 unit (some can use dual source, etc) that can accept gas or flux core wire is where i would start.

and to note, the 120v only models will probably only get ya ~20-25% duty cycle, so be prepared to weld some and then take a break, etc.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I agree.

MIG for what the OP plans to do will be optimal.


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## work.truck (Jan 19, 2015)

Im also purchasing my first welder. Its a Very difficult decision


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

work.truck said:


> Im also purchasing my first welder. Its a Very difficult decision


What will you be welding?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

This subforum is awesome. 

Love metal and thanks for making it Cricket!!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Windows on Wash said:


> This subforum is awesome.
> 
> Love metal and thanks for making it Cricket!!


You may want to thank Big Jim too, for he's the one that got this ball a rolling. :thumbsup:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Big Jim always has a standing order or gratitude from me. 

Thanks again brother (i.e. Big Jim). 

Eric


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

cibula11 said:


> No I have not. I have gotten into woodworking, etc. and feel like if I could learn to weld, I'd be able to extend possibilities. I'm stubborn enough to DIY as much as I can and welding is something I've needed from time to time, but since I don't have a welder, it's never been an option.
> 
> I'm not looking to break the bank and I don't mind buying used. I can't imagine needing to weld anything larger than some basic angle iron or repairs on mowers, fabrication of table legs, etc.


This is one of the nicest, easiest to use, small MIG welders I've ever used. After using it years ago, it talked me into buying my 252.........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLERMATIC-135-Arc-welding-power-source-wire-feeder-/271563996817


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

jomama45 said:


> This is one of the nicest, easiest to use, small MIG welders I've ever used. After using it years ago, it talked me into buying my 252.........
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLERMATIC-135-Arc-welding-power-source-wire-feeder-/271563996817


i love my miller 251, looking for a spool gun for it w/o paying a leg.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

concrete_joe said:


> i love my miller 251, looking for a spool gun for it w/o paying a leg.


I get to use a 251 relatively often in a factory where we pour a lot of machine bases. Welds just as good as my 252, and it's probably 15 years old. Never misses a beat...........


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