# Differential pinion seal question



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

did you mark the yoke and pinion before removing anything ?

anything is possible. but, the seal has nothing to do with how tight the yoke is.
if the yoke/pinion are loose before you touch anything = complete rebuild. if the gears look ok, you can reuse them, but you probably will have some kind of gear noise. not an issue, other than the noise.


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

I haven't removed anything, yet; the drive shaft is still attached. There is lots of play when I wiggle the pinion flange, so I didn't know if it might be possible that the seal ring is deformed and allowing excess movement. I've always done my own repairs but have never had a differential issue, so I don't have the specialty tools that I assume are needed for a rebuild.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Seal has nothing to do with it.

See if the wobble is in the flange or in the ring gear itself.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

you could get a junk yard unit. if you can do it yourself, and the replacment is good. you could save some money.

is it making noise ? how did you find that it was loose ?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Your have a bad bearing which took out the seal. But yes, you can replace the outer pinion bearing without removing the rear end. But it takes someone who has done it before so they know how to tighten it correctly. But this unit is on it's way out. You can "patch" it but it has to be done with knowledge. If you have a lots of play, you might need ring and pinion. If that is so, get a junk yard unit and slap it in there. *Being a 4WD, the unit has to have the same gear ratio as the one your taking out.* Pop the cover of and count the ring gear teeth and pinion teeth, then divide the pinion into the ring gear and you will have the gear ratio. It will be a lot cheaper that spending $2000.00 to $4000.00 on rebuilding it. It cost me $1000.00 to $2500. in parts to rebuild one.:vs_cool:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

Not to beat a dead horse but here's my status: I removed the yoke, oil seal, slinger and bearing. I have not removed the race and just beyond the race I see a free-floating thin ring, which I have no idea of. And as for the pinion it slides in and out by a good 1" and I can point it up a good 45*. Before pulling off the yoke I could move the pinion into a position where I could rotate the wheels. 

Is it pointless for me to pull the differential, remove the cover and look at it internally? Could I buy x parts and replace them without having specialty tools for a differential? This differential mounts to the frame with a 1" clearance between the cover and frame, so I assume it needs to be pulled in order to look at it. 

Thx again


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

That thin 'thing' is a crush sleeve that preloads the bearing. As for the slack, yes it will do that when the front pinion bearing is not there to stabilize it. Put the bearing back in with out the seal and then bolt the yoke up hand tight so there isn't any slack, then turn the pinion with your hand. Is there any front to back slack? Should be none and turns freely. There should be just a little slack as you turn it forward and backward. .010 is great but if you have a 1/4 inch, it's over. Now if everything is ok, remove the yoke and install the seal and reinstall yoke. Put red lock tight on the threads and tighten it up a little more than hand tight and rotate the yoke and check for slack. Should be around .010 but a little more is ok with the mileage. Now this isn't the proper way of doing this. This is the shade tree way but I have built many. Put oil in it and spin the wheels with the engine with the rear end on jack stands. Hear anything like a roar? Banging? Then it's over. If not, should be ok. Drive it around close to where you repaired it so if it screws up, won't have far to tow it. If there is no noise, your ok. If you hear a whine then the wear pattern in the ring gear is not good or a bad bearing. How to tell is get vehicle up to speed and listen to roar/whine. When you load it, giving it gas, it will sound one way. Then letting off the gas, if the roar/whine changes a lot, rear gear is bad. If not, bearings are bad. You can gas it normally and then let off. bearing change with speed. Ring gear does also but more dramatically. If bearings are suspect. Put rear on jack stands and while engine is turning wheels, you can put a stethoscope where the bearings are and hear the bad one. Hope this helps.:vs_cool:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

This looks sort of like what you are describing. This is part three of a three part series on replacing a differential in an F-150. Each part is an hour long. I watched the whole series. I have never touched a differential in my life but I found this very informative and, well, enjoyable. A guy and his wife rebuilding a differential. Now, that's cool.


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> That thin 'thing' is a crush sleeve that preloads the bearing.
> 
> I failed to mention that I removed the crush sleeve. This component that I see is internal, behind the outer bearing race. Maybe it's a shim or spacer?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thorough detail!


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

use the old sleeve. If your gonna do preload, the carrier has to come out and with a torque wrench pull down and it, (pinion), should start turning at 15 inch pounds. New bearings 25 inch pounds. Just stick the old sleeve and bearing in there. Crushing a new sleeve is very difficult. What we are doing is putting it back together to see if you need further diagnosis if things are whining/roaring or if the nut just came loose and everything is ok. I just did my rear end in my 83 GMC.:vs_cool:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

As I attempted to position the pinion for reassembly I found a bearing roller the cavity. I didn't bother searching for others. And I'm not certain but I believe there's a possibility that the ring I described earlier is a piece of the inner bearing assembly--the housing or cage--that is sheered from the bearing assembly. 

If I look for a complete differential from a junk yard are they proven-out to be good units, or could anything be possible with them? I have the tools and aptitude to swap the entire unit but I don't have tools nor know-how to dismantle them. Thx.


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

Another question: I found an open differential at a junk yard for $225; what we currently have is limited slip, and I found one for $475. I honestly don't know that we will keep this vehicle much longer. Would there be an issue with swapping it for an open unit? Thx.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

bfletcher7 said:


> Another question: I found an open differential at a junk yard for $225; what we currently have is limited slip, and I found one for $475. I honestly don't know that we will keep this vehicle much longer. Would there be an issue with swapping it for an open unit? Thx.


most of the time, no. pulling a boat out of the water, perhaps.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Open rear will get stuck in wet grass like mine does. The pic in my post is limited slip that I installed in my truck. Now I don't get stuck in my front yard anymore. You want the limited slip. *And be sure to get the same gear ratio or you will trash out the transfer case.* Get the whole rear end assembly. Do not take it apart as you will need to shim it up and that takes someone who has been trained in gear replacement.:vs_cool:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

According to the manual, my axle shafts have circlips, not C clips in the differential. Can I pull these out and tap them back in the new differential without removing the cover? Thx


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

bfletcher7 said:


> According to the manual, my axle shafts have circlips, not C clips in the differential. Can I pull these out and tap them back in the new differential without removing the cover? Thx


Yes.:vs_karate:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

I picked up the L/S diff today. Would it be wise to install a new universal joint, or can I verify its integrity somehow? If replacing, might I have some existing tool that I can use, or is there a specific tool you suggest? Thx.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

U-joints should not have any slack what so ever and cups should rotate easily. No red dust. That is rust and then it should be changed. When you install a cup in a u-joint, be careful not to have a needle bearing fall in the cup. It won't like it. I dab some grease in there and run my finger round on the inside. It help keep the needle bearings in their place. I use a vice to press the cups. But before that, it was a hammer and a socket.:vs_cool:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

The shop manual tells me to use a custom tool from OTC to drive the axle from the differential. At $150 I decided what I saw on Youtube would suffice, where a pry bar rests against a thick piece of the diff case and using leverage to force out the axle while using a sledge hammer on the axle hub housing. Does that work, or do I need a tool, or do I just need more muscle, cuz I'm struggling. Thx.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Pry bar on both sides or you can rent the tool at any parts house. Be careful as you can crack the housing when yer yankin.:vs_cool:


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## bfletcher7 (Jan 16, 2016)

She is back on the road and to the best of my knowledge there are no issues. Thanks for your help! I would not have gotten through this without your willingness to offer direction and answer all the questions.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

That’s why @Brainbucket is the best.

:smile:


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Aw Shucks. Your welcome.:thumbup:


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