# Renovating my cedar deck



## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

10 years ago I had a cedar deck built. It was originally stained with translucent sikkens stain (cetol 078, 1, 2 or 3 I think). I've restained it a couple of times with the original stain and two years ago, while I was in a hurry, I mad the mistake of staining with a Behr's semitranslucent stain. It might as well have been opaque, because the original lines of the wood disappeared and I wasn't at all happy with the result. 

It's now two years later and I have decided to go back to the original wood as much as I can. I started powerwashing off the old stain today and this is the result:
























The Behr stain came off fairly easily. But the brown patches you see are the original Sikkens stain on the wood. In some areas it is almost impossible to get off. At this point I realised that I really didn't know what I was doing and came upstairs to find a DIY forum. I read through several of your (excellent) threads on deck renovations and I gather that one of my next steps is to hire a 12"x18" vibrating flat plate sander with backer pads (what are they?) and 60 grit sheets, but to wipe the boards down with paint thinner beforehand. (Thanks Faront) But should I be using some sort of cleaner or stripper first? I so, what should I use? 

To get the old stain off I am using quite powerful washing, and I worry about the effect on the wood although the area that I have done seems ok after drying tonight. 

The rails seem to be a lost cause. Even when I was restaining with the Sikkens stain, every application made the wood darker and I think I just have to accept that the variation in colour comes along with having chosen a wooden deck.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey Ghengis, nice name. You have quite the project there, and you seem ambitious. However, and there are those here who will fight me, but I suggest you consult with, and consider hiring, a pro to do your deck. At the very least, to do the stripping. They have the tools, the chemicals, and the procedures in place to do it and get it done in one swoop. It will be costly, but what's your time worth? There are few projects I discourage DIY, but this is one of them. There are companies out there who offer this type of work as a specialty. Don't hire just any painter who says he does decks. That would be me, and I wouldn't know where to start with that deck. (I'm being slightly facetious, slightly). It looks like you have a beautiful place there, take a lot of pride in your stuff, and may even do a bit of entertaining on that deck, don't screw it up. If you want to reveal your location (looks like northeast somewhere), we might be able to help you find someone competent and capable. Good Luck.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks jsheridan. A month ago my time was worth a lot, but I retired on July 1, so I really don't have anything better to do! I live in Waterloo Ontario. 

I'm used to working with wood although my knowlege of painting and staining needs a lot of improvement. I have a cottage on lake Huron and although I didn't build my deck myself (I designed it though), I built the gazebo below from scratch with my own hands (except for the weathervane, the work of a local blacksmith)


So I'm willing to put in the time to learn how to look after the deck properly if I can get the right advice. Cheers


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## cpitcock (Aug 8, 2011)

Rent a better power washer. One that is at least 2750 PSI from Home Depot or Sherwin Williams. The electric ones never give you enough power to truly get all of the dirt, stain, or whatever else off of your deck. This will allow you to get those marks off. Be careful though to not use a spray tip that is too strong because then you will damage the wood. So, start with a higher numbered spray tip (40) and then work your way down to maybe 25 to really get it clean. I don't recommend strippers because they are extremely toxic and time consuming. I have been painting for over 20 years.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks cc. I did try a stripper this afternoon ("stripex" - which *says *that it is biodegradable (?)).* It got some more of the remaining stain off but you are right - it was time-consuming and I don't think that I am that much further ahead. Besides, it was messy and I now owe Mrs Genghis a plastic washbasin.

I am trying to decide whether to go with your suggestion of a more powerful powerwasher, or just accept that the powerwashing will simply clean the wood before I sand it, and let the sanding take the rest off. From what I've seen in the other threads on decks, sanding seems to be recommended every 5-10 years anyway. 

Cheers

* PS: even uranium is "biodegradable" - but it takes about 100,000 years!


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

On another thread Faron79 noted:


> Rent a 12"x18" "Vibrating-plate" sander, a couple backer-pads, some 60-grit paper, and sand the floor until grain looks even everywhere. Get all dust vacuumed/swept/wiped-out with paint-thinner.
> * Also- because it's now sanded, you don't have to wait DAYS for it to dry!
> * Once dust is wiped-out...you're staining!


I'm not sure of the role of the paint thinner. If you wipe it into the wood before staining (with a pad of some sort, I imagine) wouldn't that affect the colour of the stain? Or would it help the stain to penetrate better? I'm not sure of the reason for this suggestion. 

Also, I'll need to replace a couple of the floorboards. A wooden planter has been sitting on them for years and some of the wood underneath is in poor shape. If I take in a sanded sample of the original boards will that help to ensure that the cedar boards I buy are similar in colour to the original batch? Or will I just have to take my chances?


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

You need to use an akiline based stain stripper, with garden hose pressure. It will remove the stain with ease if you use the right product. The wood will darken as the ph level will be changed. You will have to follow up using a acid based brightner to neutralize the stripper, return the wood to the proper ph and brighten. Don't use high pressure and bleach based products. I can't recomened what I would use as its only sold to contractors and is caustic, but it will remove that stain with ease and without using high pressure.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Genghis-
Paint-thinner will get more dust out of the grain, even after you vacuum it well first!!! Think of using a Stri-dex pad on your face. Even if you wash your face well, a pad like that will ALWAYS pull more dirt out!
SAME idea...

I'm sanding my Redwood handrails this week. I'll get some pix here in the a.m. if I can! Got-'em on sawhorses, and sanding them with 50-grit.
Gonna use Sikkens DEK-Finish #045 Mahogany.
* It'll contrast nicely with the SRD #089 Redwood on the rest of the deck.
* Our swinging wood bench has DF Mahogany on it already, so the handrails will coordinate with the bench.
* I LOVE the sheened look of DF on furniture! Now the rails will have a nice sheen too.

Faron


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

housepaintingny said:


> You need to use an akiline based stain stripper, with garden hose pressure. It will remove the stain with ease if you use the right product. The wood will darken as the ph level will be changed. You will have to follow up using a acid based brightner to neutralize the stripper, return the wood to the proper ph and brighten. Don't use high pressure and bleach based products. I can't recomened what I would use as its only sold to contractors and is caustic, but it will remove that stain with ease and without using high pressure.


Ghengis, this is why I recommended hiring this job out, as said, at least the stripping. The stripper products coming off the shelves are weak at best, and could double as a dessert topping, flash back to 1970's Saturday Night Live. How are you going to sand out the stain on all that handrail/baluster system, especially with them so closely positioned together? You're contemplating a job that I, as a pro, would turn down, and I've done them using both means. This stage of the job is the most important in terms of long term integrity and appearance. I'm nothing to you here if I can't be honest. And, in my honest, humble opinion, you'll soon be in over your head. Drop the bucks and have it done right.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

jsheridan said:


> Ghengis, this is why I recommended hiring this job out, as said, at least the stripping. The stripper products coming off the shelves are weak at best, and could double as a dessert topping, flash back to 1970's Saturday Night Live. How are you going to sand out the stain on all that handrail/baluster system, especially with them so closely positioned together? You're contemplating a job that I, as a pro, would turn down, and I've done them using both means. This stage of the job is the most important in terms of long term integrity and appearance. I'm nothing to you here if I can't be honest. And, in my honest, humble opinion, you'll soon be in over your head. Drop the bucks and have it done right.


The strippers on the shelves are weak. The product I use, I usually only use at at about 3/4 strenghth and it would take the stain off of that deck after a few mins dwell time and a scrubbing from a nylon brush, but it is caustic and will burn you if your not carefull.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. First thing this morning (I'm retired now ) I rented a vibrating plate sander and after four hours this is the result:

Much better than the original post. Not perfect, but I can live with it. Next job, the railings. I was going to sand the horizontal rails with a palm sander and 60 grit, going to 100 when the paint is off. The vertical railings I was going to leave as is (except perhaps the 4x4s). They always soaked up the stain more than the deck, and I didn't really mind the difference in colour that this produced. Anyway, I'll try that and see what it looks like after the sanding. 










Next job, of course, is a decision about the stain. I love looking at the grain in the wood, and I'd really like to try a Sikkens translucent stain again. On another thread I read that there were 10 different translucent stains available. Any advice on which I might consider, given that the vertical rails will be significantly darker than the rest?


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

housepaintingny said:


> The strippers on the shelves are weak. The product I use, I usually only use at at about 3/4 strenghth and it would take the stain off of that deck after a few mins dwell time and a scrubbing from a nylon brush, but it is caustic and will burn you if your not carefull.


I certainly would be reluctant to use a product that strong myself. Mrs Genghis and I stripped a set of antique chairs at the cottage a few years back. They ended up looking beautiful, but we were both up for several nights afterwards with very nasty tingling in our fingers. We had worn rubber gloves, but the product had diffused through the rubber anyway. 

I'll stick with the "dessert topping" (thanks jsheridan ) for the edges. Hopefully that will get rid of any stuff I can't eliminate with the sanding.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Faron79 said:


> Genghis-
> Paint-thinner will get more dust out of the grain, even after you vacuum it well first!!! Think of using a Stri-dex pad on your face. Even if you wash your face well, a pad like that will ALWAYS pull more dirt out!


Thanks Faron. I'll try it. 

There seems to be a lot of debate on the deck threads regarding sanding vs stripping. Perhaps those who are carpenters at heart prefer sanding and those who are painters at heart prefer stripping. 

The vibrating plate sander was a pleasure to use. I'd never used one before and I didn't know how I'd handle it, but it only took a few minutes (seconds, even) to get the hang of it, and then it was just a case of keeping it on track. It did a good job. My deck is 500 sq feet. It took me 4 hours with tea breaks.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Good Luck Genghis.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

A day of rain slowed me down, but I'm slowly working my way around the railings. 

I'm starting to think about the stain. The two I'm interested in are Cetol DEK finish and Cetol SRD. Both translucent. One appears to be a two-coat finish and one is a single coat. Cetol DEK is satin and SRD is matte. 

I'll call one of the local dealers in the next day or two and see if they will let me have some samples of the colours I'm interested in. (Mahogany or cedar). They both seem to be available in both types of deck finish. 

Anything else I need to be aware of as far as these stains are concerned?


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Anyone have a picture of a cedar deck (or any cedar structure) stained in Cetol SRD Mahogany? That's the one I'm leaning toward, but it seems to be quite dark. I know what the cedar colour looks like because I've used it for the original deck, my cottage, and my workshop, and although it's a little on the orange side when you first put it on, it matures to a beautiful golden brown with more than a touch of red. I've a feeling the mahogany might be too dark for me. 

I asked for a sample at the local Sikkens dealer but I was told that I had to bring in a piece of wood and they would stain it for me. Unfortunately, all my cedar is screwed down to the deck (!) so if anyone has a pic I'd appreciate seeing what it looks like.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Faron79 said:


> Genghis-
> Paint-thinner will get more dust out of the grain, even after you vacuum it well first!!! Think of using a Stri-dex pad on your face. Even if you wash your face well, a pad like that will ALWAYS pull more dirt out!
> SAME idea...
> 
> ...


I'd love to see the pics when you can put them up. Particularly since I'm thinking about mahogany too. Either that or cedar. 

What's the difference between Dek finish and SRD, Faron? I've visited two of our local Sikkens dealers so far, and neither stocks the DF, although both say they could order it for me if I wanted it.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Ghengis, if your deck boards are screwed down, why don't you just unscrew a small board and take it to the paint store to sample away? That would be your best bet to get a good understanding of what the stain will look like on your particular wood. A stain will look different on different pieces of wood. I mean, you're going this far, just remove a board. I had to unscrew and take an interior shutter the other week for the same purpose.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

I was thinking about that JS. I've been working my way up the railings because the last sanding job I want to do before staining is the flat surface of the handrail. I've found from past experience that the top surface deteriorates very quickly if it isn't stained within a few days of sanding. Something to do with the heat I guess. 

The screws have been in for ten years. I don't know whether they'll come out without a fuss or not. We'll see.


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

Well I eventually decided on Sikkens DEK mahogany stain, and does it ever look good. I stained throughout today and although I had a few anxious moments when they forecast a "chance of thunderstorms" it was sunny all day. The deck looks as good as new. 

The second coat, as far as I understand, should be applied fairly soon after the first, after a 24 hour drying. I'll do it, if all goes well, tomorrow. 

Thanks for all the help. I'll post another pic when I'm done.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Hey GM & co.!

Uffda....
Ran into some trouble with my deck steps! Specifically, the big 2x12 Redwood skirtboard, that runs just outside the stringer!!
After I took the steps off, I noticed the wood seemed kinda soft on that outer skirtboard...
Dammit...sure enough, the wood felt a little damp and soft.

Sooooo after wrestling with some screws that were stripped since installation 15yrs ago...I eventually got the whole skirtboard/spindle/handrail assy off!!

>>> I s'pose I'm gonna have to brush on some Petrifier I bought to stop the softening?! Then, use some 2-part epoxy-paste to spread on as a filler?!

Anyway....I've got a WHOLE bunch of pix I can post here soon!
My computer is acting-up lately, so I don't know if it'll stay online long enuff to upload pix, etc. Hopefully some pix this wknd...

GM-
If it was Mahogany DEK-Finish you used...so did I (on the bench I mentioned, and now my handrails)!!
That stuff sure dries REEEEAAALLLL slow between coats!!

Faron


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## Genghis_McCann (Aug 8, 2011)

OK. I put on the second coat yesterday. It dried overnight and this morning the deck has gone from this:










to this:


















Mrs Genghis and I are really happy with the result, but it is still a work in progress. When I started the project almost two weeks ago I made the decision to leave the spindles on the railings as is. The surface of the railings is relatively rough, and the stain has always soaked in more than the deck, causing a much darker colour. I thought that this would "blend in" with the new colour and look all right, but it was the wrong decision. The vertical rails need to be sanded and stained too, so this will be the next step. 

For the moment, however, I'm well satisfied. We have visitors coming over from Britain for the next couple of weeks, then I can get back to business. Thanks to everyone who has posted helpful advice on decks. I've read through almost all the deck threads and the advice posted here and elsewhere has been invaluable. 

Faron, I'm looking forward to seeing how your bench looks. I'm thinking of making one for the cottage. 

Cheers,
Genghis.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Genghis M-

Lookin' very good!

Yep...the "magic" happens with the 2nd coat of that stuff!

* Got done sanding the inner-side, top & bottom, and ends of my big Redwood skirtboard tonight.
* Dug out the flaking & soft Redwood, then sanded with 36-grit paper.
* Now it looks pretty good...."raw" but good!
* In '96 when it was built, it was "Construction-Heart" grade Redwood. NO Sapwood, and only a few knots.
* "Clear all Heart" Redwood was available, but more $$.

NOW....you couldn't touch the wood in my deck unless you sunk LOTS of $$ into it. Soooooo...I'm milking the deck for all it's worth!
PITA but I guess it's worth it!

Faron


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## pomlady (Sep 27, 2011)

Genghis_McCann said:


> OK. I put on the second coat yesterday. It dried overnight and this morning the deck has gone from this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that looks great Genghis:thumbsup:!
I just found this site and joined as I was looking for information about what to use on a cedar deck. We put a large cedar deck on the back of our house two yrs. ago and I used CIL Wood Care Cedar Oil Treatment on it. This past Spring I noticed there was a bit of peeling; so I sanded the deck down and still had some of the CIL; my husband replaced a board that wasn't looking good IMO but of course it stained way lighter then the original; so looked awful! I ended up putting a very tiny amount of Olympic Stain that I had here into the Oil Treatment for the second coat and then did a third and now it is a solid color but looks even and clean, so I am reasonably happy with it. The only thing is that I find that our German Shepherd walking over it with muddy feet, it does look dirty quickly as it is a red color. That is the only thing that I am not happy about. But as long as it doesn't peel again I can live with it:laughing:.
So now we want to put a cedar deck on the front of our house; just have the boards sitting in the garage now. We have been cutting to size all day. I am leaning towards Sikkens from what I have read; Behr products sounded like they peel quite badly on here and other sites. I called Sikkens today and the technical department fellow told me that for a deck I should use SRD. I asked about Cetol 1 2 3 and he said that wasn't for decks? He also said to only do one coat of SRD as I don't want a build up; so I am wondering what one coat of it will look like; does anyone know? Will it look like it needs another coat; will it look dull, etc.?
Since your deck turned out so well Genghis, I was wondering what made you decide on the Sikkens Dek versus the SRD? Also it looks like it has a sheen on your last picture? And with doing two coats do you think it will hold up with traffic on it? 
We live in the country in British Columbia and our front deck will be heavily used since it is where we come into the house and have a gravel driveway and as mentioned a large dog; so a very heavy traffic area; so I was thinking that maybe we should just do a natural stain as that won't show the wear and tear as much? At the same time I wouldn't mind using one with a stain as our house also has cedar siding which I did use a Behr Urethane years ago when they still had them in oil based. So maybe too much of a good thing??? If I put down a colored stain with the wear and tear I guess the color would come off easier and then the natural colored cedar would come through with scratches? Does this make sense what I am asking?
Sorry for all the questions and picking of your brain Genghis and anyone else that would like to offer some :help:
I plan to sand all the boards before staining them in the garage, letting them dry and then we will put them down; just to be on the safe side I want to prep them properly.
Sorry for the long winded post:confused1: I am trying to gain as much information as I can before we lay this deck down.
Any information will be most welcome:thumbup:
Thanks so much for any feedback, it is appreciated.


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