# Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet



## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Planning stages of basement bathroom. Here is a photo of the corner area I have picked out.

-The purple is the existing 4" running in the slab. The location is confirmed via camera.

-That stack on the left of the photo is all vent pipe above the upper 4" San-T. So I can tie into that to vent this bath group.

-The brown is the estimated framing.

-You can see the location I want to put the toilet and lav. The shower will be a 36" x 60" in the corner where the shelving is.

Here is a real photo of the basement.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Here is a sketch of how Im thinking of setting the fixtures. Is it OK to use the shower drain as a wet vent for the toilet? 

-Purple is existing 4" 
-Gray will be 3" for toilet
-Green will be 2" for shower and vent
-Orange will be 1.5" for lav.

The vent locations are shown in red circles.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

I couldn't do that under my code but my venting rules are different. I'm not much help for Ohio work.
Ghost will have the answer for you though


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

OK...Ive seen a lot of posts recently about basement bathrooms and figured I should get going on mine. 

If this setup can't work I can move fixtures around. I'll wait for Ghost.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Guess I could move the toilet over beside the lav and wet vent thru the lav.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

hammerlane said:


> Guess I could move the toilet over beside the lav and wet vent thru the lav.


Those photos both present the same issue for us westerners.... We have to vent off the top of the pipe, which means hitting a wall before travelling to the fixture. It can't be horizontal below the floor. 

You'll have to wait for someone from your area to chime in on this one.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Alan said:


> Those photos both present the same issue for us westerners.... We have to vent off the top of the pipe, which means hitting a wall before travelling to the fixture. It can't be horizontal below the floor.
> 
> You'll have to wait for someone from your area to chime in on this one.


In this diagram though, the shower and lav definitely have a vertical takeoff on the vents. So in your area it would be the wet vented part for the toilet that is your issue?


I wonder if the laws of physics change from one time zone to another. I figure if it works in one State it should work in the others. Speaking of the way water drains downhill that is.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Either way is fine. What you have marked as a vent has nothing from upper floors draining into it right?

Make sure any tie in to the 4 inch is 40 inches downstream of the stack.

Some things to consider
I would also suggest you make only a single cut into your exiting underground install a clean out on the branch of your y run 3 inch to your water closet with a 3 by 4 inch 90 the 4 inch coming out of the concrete. if you do that you will only need a 2 " vent on the first fixture downstream of the toilet. As long as you do not go beyond 8 foot to your shower trap.

Your inspector will need to see a 5 lb air test on your new piping and the multiple cuts into existing is a problem you do not need... Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.

Not to mention your placing the shower under your duct that will not leave much headroom once you install a ceiling. With concrete saws the ditching is not the problem.

You will also need a fart fan for water vapor...

And don't forget the wet bar for the man cave...


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> Either way is fine. What you have marked as a vent has nothing from upper floors draining into it right?


100% positive of that.




Ghostmaker said:


> Make sure any tie in to the 4 inch is 40 inches downstream of the stack.


Will do.



Ghostmaker said:


> I would also suggest you make only a single cut into your exiting underground install a clean out on the branch of your y run 3 inch to your water closet with a 3 by 4 inch 90 the 4 inch coming out of the concrete. if you do that you will only need a 2 " vent on the first fixture downstream of the toilet.


You're saying to put cleanout in the floor along the 3" lateral to the toilet? Also Good call on using the reducing closet bend.




Ghostmaker said:


> Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.


When you say bath do you mean the shower or the entire bath group? 



Ghostmaker said:


> Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.


Also I do not understand the statement about using Mission brand transitional couplings. Why would I use a mission coupling? Why not just use PVC cement when securing the new "Y" to the existing 4". The existing 4" in the slab is PVC. Maybe I did not make that point clear.



Ghostmaker said:


> Not to mention your placing the shower under your duct that will not leave much headroom once you install a ceiling.


That duct is 42" out from the wall. May not look it from the photo. After framing out the wall then with a 36" deep shower base, I still will not be under that duct.



Ghostmaker said:


> You will also need a fart fan for water vapor


A fan will definitely be installed.


Either way Ghost...thanks for the comments. I did get a few ideas from you.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

"Also I do not understand the statement about using Mission brand transitional couplings. Why would I use a mission coupling? Why not just use PVC cement when securing the new "Y" to the existing 4". The existing 4" in the slab is PVC. Maybe I did not make that point clear."

If you have two ends of a pipe partially buried in concrete how will you move the pipe to make the joint of the Y your installing? Professionals may glue one side of a Y in but the other side will have a short pipe stubbed out with a mission coupling. 

"Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in."

With your exiting drain running through where you intend to place the bath it will cause you headaches getting around it. I found it better over the years to just make your tie in and then move the bath out of the area of exiting underground piping.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> If you have two ends of a pipe partially buried in concrete how will you move the pipe to make the joint of the Y your installing? Professionals may glue one side of a Y in but the other side will have a short pipe stubbed out with a mission coupling.


Gotcha Ghost...Never thought of that issue. Guess thats what experience does for you.

Thanks for the point.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Hey Ghost....I saw an episode of Ask This Old House. When they plumbed in the basement bath, the shower and toilet were both wet vented off the lav. See photo below.

Would this allowed in Ohio? See diagram below. In this diagram, the entire bath is on its own 3" like you mentioned in one of your previous posts. Also in the diagram, the lav is shown venting the shower and toilet.

Thanks


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> Would this allowed in Ohio? See diagram below. In this diagram, the entire bath is on its own 3" like you mentioned in one of your previous posts. Also in the diagram, the lav is shown venting the shower and toilet.
> 
> Thanks


According to Ohio Chapter 4101:3-9. Any combination of fixtures within a bathroom group located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. So yes you can wet vent the shower and WC off the lav. The wet vent needs to be sized properly depending on the dfu's. Also each wet vented fixture drain shall connect independently to the horizontal wet vent. So in your last picture if you made the lav drain 3" and connected that into your 4" then connect your WC and shower independently into the 3" from the lav I think that would satisfy the requirement. See if ghostmaker agrees.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

rosem637 said:


> So in your last picture if you made the lav drain 3" and connected that into your 4" then connect your WC and shower independently into the 3" from the lav I think that would satisfy the requirement. See if ghostmaker agrees.


Are you suggesting that the diagram on the right would be a better way to go as compared to the diagram on the left? I did read in the code the statement about "each wet vented fixture drain shall connect independently to the horizontal wet vent". Just wondering if below is the correct interpretation of that??


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Normally they want it sized based on the fixtures being served.... it may be 3" to the shower wye, but I really doubt that they want a 3" drain/vent on the lav. Probably 2" from the shower through the roof.

Wait for an ohioan to confirm. :yes:


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Alan said:


> Normally they want it sized based on the fixtures being served.... it may be 3" to the shower wye, but I really doubt that they want a 3" drain/vent on the lav. Probably 2" from the shower through the roof


So 2" from lav to the Wye that would pick up the toilet and shower. Then 3" from that point?

Like the drawing on the right.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

hammerlane said:


> Hey Ghost....I saw an episode of Ask This Old House. When they plumbed in the basement bath, the shower and toilet were both wet vented off the lav. See photo below.
> 
> Would this allowed in Ohio? See diagram below. In this diagram, the entire bath is on its own 3" like you mentioned in one of your previous posts. Also in the diagram, the lav is shown venting the shower and toilet.
> 
> Thanks


Yep that is also good. just run 2 inch all the way to the shower then you can run 2 inch to the lav and vent the lav with 2 inch.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Any of the above is legal as long as shower trap is within 8 foot of pipe running to lav.

I prefer the left one. You don't need that little bit of 3 inch.

Don.t forget the tee on the 3 inch for testing with 5 lb air. You will need a way to block your new pipe off for a test ball.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> Any of the above is legal as long as shower trap is within 8 foot of pipe running to lav.
> 
> I prefer the left one. You don't need that little bit of 3 inch.
> 
> Don.t forget the tee on the 3 inch for testing with 5 lb air. You will need a way to block your new pipe off for a test ball.


Shower trap will be well within 8 feet. Don't know when Im gonna get started on the slab demo but will post photos of the progress.

Thanks for the advice and tips.

what county you in?


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

hammerlane said:


> Shower trap will be well within 8 feet. Don't know when Im gonna get started on the slab demo but will post photos of the progress.
> 
> Thanks for the advice and tips.
> 
> what county you in?



Up in Medina.. Plumbers call us the inspectors the State of Medina.... We are strict about code.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> Up in Medina.


I'm 2 exits north of you on 71


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghost... a buddy suggested placing the lav like I show it below in the top photo. This means running the drain for the lav thru the newly built wall. This puts the lav drain above grade and keeps concrete breakage to a real minimum as only the toilet and shower would need the cuts. The photo shows only the lav placement, the diagram shows all 3 fixture placements.

If I go this route, at the tie-in for the lav at the existing 4" stack would it be OK to:
1. Remove the existing cleanout tee and replace with a double San-T. One side of the Sant-T is for the lav and the other side would be the cleanout.

2. Place cleanout T slightly higher on stack and use a single San-T below cleanout to pick up lav drain?


What are your thoughts on this setup.

Thanks


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## Ishmael (Apr 24, 2007)

You could probably do the whole thing without breaking up the slab if you use a rear outlet toilet like the Kohler "Barrington". You may have to chip out around the 4" stack to sink the 4"x3" Tee Wye to the correct height. The shower could also be done if you had it up on a 2"x8" framed platform (lower if you don't mind chipping out the slab to allow clearance for the trap), but you'd have to locate if away from the ducts for ceiling height issues.

And come to think of it - if you have the room to spare - you could put the rest of the bathroom on 2"x4" or 2"x6" framing to minimize or eliminate the step up into the shower and also make the installation of the 4"x3" Tee into the stack a little easier - IF your ceiling height will allow it (but I think you're too restricted by the ducts for that).

Ghost would know your local code, but mine says we need 7-foot headroom around any plumbing fixtures (finished floor to finished ceiling).

Any horizontal branch you take off that 4" soil stack will need to be vented back up to the vent you mentioned in your first post, BUT it has to be tied in at a point 6" above the flood level rim of the highest fixture served on that level (first floor).


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ishmael said:


> You could probably do the whole thing without breaking up the slab if you use a rear outlet toilet like the Kohler "Barrington".


We did think about a platform but right now I'm down to only about 9 feet of concrete breakage so thats not bad for the toilet and shower.




Ishmael said:


> Any horizontal branch you take off that 4" soil stack will need to be vented back up to the vent you mentioned in your first post, BUT it has to be tied in at a point 6" above the flood level rim of the highest fixture served on that level (first floor).


There are no other fixtures draining into that stack through that 2" above the 4' San-T. That 2" is all vent. I'm 100% positive of that so my tie in to the vent can be in the basement.


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## Ishmael (Apr 24, 2007)

hammerlane said:


> We did think about a platform but right now I'm down to only about 9 feet of concrete breakage so thats not bad for the toilet and shower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that's the case, and the horizontal line serves only those floor drains, you're probably OK to tie the vent in there - as high as you can get it.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ishmael said:


> If that's the case, and the horizontal line serves only those floor drains, you're probably OK to tie the vent in there - as high as you can get it.


This house isn't that old and I've always wondered why the builder couldn't spend the few extra dollars for some fittings to at least rough in a basement bathroom. Maybe that vent was his way of saying, "Here...at least I gave you and easy way to vent a basement bathroom" 

I dont know. Just my 2 cents.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

You need to tie in 40 inches downstream of your stack 90. What you show will work. But move your tie in downstream.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> You need to tie in 40 inches downstream of your stack 90. What you show will work. But move your tie in downstream.


Ghost...are you are referring to the tie-in of the toilet 3" to the existing 4"? Shown at point "A" in this diagram.

If so, that wye will be close to 6 or 7 feet from the stack so I'll be good.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

I've been away for awhile but am getting ready to knockout this floor to rough-in this basement bath(toilet, lav and shower). I bought the shower base, 34x48 with a center drain. This is how I'm planning the below grade plumbing for the toilet and shower.

-The lav will be plumbed above grade as shown in post #22 above

-The purple line is the location of the existing 4" drain below grade

-The vent shown with the 2" wye that will come up into the 2x6 side wall of the shower will be used to vent the shower and toilet


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Welcome back.

Make sure the pipe is 2 inch to the shower.

Use a 4 by 3 inch 90 on the toilet. 4 inch through the floor. That way you can glue a 3 inch toilet flange into the 4 inch coming out directly after pouring and all finish flooring is installed.

Run 2 inch to the lavatory. Turn up with a 2 inch 90. Use a 2 by 1.5 inch 90 at top the 1.5 inch coming out of wall to the lav sink.

Have fun

Use primer and glue on both pipe and fittings.

If your being inspected make sure you contact your inspector regarding the test he will need.

Use a Proflex brand plastic to plastic transitional coupling when you add your wyes into existing pipe.. Your working between to unmovable pipes..

When you add your tie in to the existing vent do it up in the joist area. 

Potentially you could be flagged for a violation if your tie in is not 42 inches above the garage floor.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> Make sure the pipe is 2 inch to the shower.


It is 2"



Ghostmaker said:


> Use a 4 by 3 inch 90 on the toilet. 4 inch through the floor.


Already have it.



Ghostmaker said:


> Use a Proflex brand plastic to plastic transitional coupling when you add your wyes into existing pipe.. Your working between to unmovable pipes.


I think we are plannin on using 4" PVC repair couplings.



Ghostmaker said:


> When you add your tie in to the existing vent do it up in the joist area.
> 
> Potentially you could be flagged for a violation if your tie in is not 42 inches above the garage floor.


Will run the vent vertically up the stud bay and not go horizontal until in the joist area. Can't get above the garage floor before going horizontal. That would be a bad day if an inspector dinged you for that.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Started breaking concrete to find the lateral ...... itvwas pretty much where I expected.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Close up


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Have fun!!!!


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> Have fun!!!!


Wasn't fun at all. Rented an electric dry-use Makita 14" concrete saw from HD. The saw has its own attachment for shop vac hook up for dust collection. Well the dust collection worked like ****. I should of went to United Rental and got their Husqvarna wet electric saw. 

Anyway it got done.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Got the rough in done. We also roughed in for a future laundry sink on the opposite side of the wall with the lav as seen in pictures 3 & 4.

And yes we got a little sloppy with the primer


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Not bad for a beginner. Please don't forget your nail plates and 4 by 6 plates at bottom and top of wall where ever pipe is within 1.5 inch of stud surface. This includes the water. You will also need a test for your inspector. So I hope you did not cover without inspection.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Yeah will do the nail plates when we finish the framing. Only need a few all plumbing is in 2x6 walls.

Thanks for your comments throughout Ghost


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

I am had a question about the 2/6 walls you built. I was going to use 1.5 inch drains for my lav/sink and was just planning 2x4 walls. I would only have 2 inch venting rising straight up from my shower tie in. So no 2 inch would be going through any virtical studs.

Am I ok just using 2x4 walls? (non structural). ..as long as I don't have any holes for 2 inch drains going through them?


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

caveeagle said:


> I am had a question about the 2/6 walls you built. I was going to use 1.5 inch drains for my lav/sink and was just planning 2x4 walls. I would only have 2 inch venting rising straight up from my shower tie in. So no 2 inch would be going through any virtical studs.
> 
> Am I ok just using 2x4 walls? (non structural). ..as long as I don't have any holes for 2 inch drains going through them?


Cave eagle its absolutely fine to run1.5 inch pipe through 2 by 4 walls. Use a 2 9/16 drill bit. The wall only hangs dry wall and not a bearing wall. I was a new work plumber most of my life prior to the plumbing inspector job I now hold.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

Ghostmaker said:


> Cave eagle its absolutely fine to run1.5 inch pipe through 2 by 4 walls. Use a 2 9/16 drill bit. The wall only hangs dry wall and not a bearing wall. I was a new work plumber most of my life prior to the plumbing inspector job I now hold.


OK, thanks for the double validation. I actually built a basement bathroom in Dutches County (Wappingers Falls), back in '02, and I swear the Town of Poughkeepsie made me build a whole wall in 2x6 because I ran a 1.5 inch sink drain through it. :jester: ..That was a fiasco on several levels. That was a while ago, but I can promise you, that 2x6 wall was royal PITA, and made the room flow awkwardly, so am pretty sure I could not find a way around it at the time. 

...Hope you were not a ToP Inspector in '02.. :wink:


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> Got the rough in done. We also roughed in for a future laundry sink on the opposite side of the wall with the lav as seen in pictures 3 & 4.


Looks like it should work. I'd say you got off lucky only having to break up the amount of floor that you did. When you filled your trench in did you just use the dirt you took out?


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

rosem637 said:


> Looks like it should work. I'd say you got off lucky only having to break up the amount of floor that you did. When you filled your trench in did you just use the dirt you took out?


Yes due to the way I layed it out the concrete demo was at a minimum. Plus tying in the lav above grade helped. I used sand to fill in the trench to half way cover the pipe then used some of the dirt that was removed then gravel.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Supply plumbing, framing completed, shower set, exhaust fan in and electric done. Drywall next.

Used plaster to set shower base on as depicted in the pic below.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm impressed I would hire you.. Great job you should be very proud of your work.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> I'm impressed I would hire you.. Great job you should be very proud of your work.


Thanks....after doing electrical rough in I set a chair where the throne is going and sat down to see if I forgot any blocking, receptacles, switches, nailing plates etc... As I sat there, I'm looking at the space to the right of the doorway and thought thats a perfect place for a small TV. Hope Santa brings one.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Rome wasn't built in a day. Obviously neither was my basement bathroom.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Realized I never posted completed photos...


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

A few more.....


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Good looking job. It looks like Santa didn't bring the tv.


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