# A discussion on the Proper grounding for portable generators



## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Consider the following situation: I have a portable generator that may be connected to the home wiring via an extension cord plugging onto a male receptacle (inlet) on the side of the house. Here are the constraints I will impose:

1. The main panel will not be modified to separate grounds and neutrals.
2. The generator will not be modified in a destructive or warranty-voiding manner.

We can imagine a poll question (use replies as opposed to a real forum poll question) as to choosing do-able (not necessarily kosher) workarounds.

(Some generators have an exposed ground/neutral bond to be in place for field use and removed for home wiring use to satisfy the conditions above.)


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

IMO, a portable generator that uses only the receptacles built into the unit to provide power, even to a structure, does NOT require a grounding electrode, and the neutral/ground bond should remain in place as it is from the factory.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> the neutral/ground bond should remain in place as it is from the factory.


Some generator manufacturer's provide instructions for removing the bond and new labeling to place on the generator.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

stickboy1375 said:


> Some generator manufacturer's provide instructions for removing the bond and new labeling to place on the generator.


Ahhh, good to know. I was not aware of this. :thumbsup:

Even so, if only receptacles are used on the genset the bond should still remain in place. DO you agree?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> Ahhh, good to know. I was not aware of this. :thumbsup:
> 
> Even so, if only receptacles are used on the genset the bond should still remain in place. DO you agree?


For the obvious safety reasons, yes. We both know these generators are never just going to be used at a structure.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> For the obvious safety reasons, yes. We both know these generators are never just going to be used at a structure.


So at this point you would think that the adjustments need to be made on the house tie in side to avoid having to take out and replace the bond wire in the genny every time you use it for a different application.

I've done some searching and the only thing i can find on actually driving in a ground rod at the genny location is that it's suggested only if the distance is far from the house, otherwise it should be tied into the house grounding system to keep the same potential. Don't have a code reference on it just searched threads from other forums. What they suggest if the genny is a long distance out is to drive a ground rod in and bond the case to the ground rod. I can see why they say this as you don't want a potential difference between your two ground points but i can't see why anyone would want to install a genny far enough from a house that it would make a difference

so assuming that we can't modify the ground then that leaves us with the option of switching the neutral out to break the n/g bond. my reasoning on not switching out the ground is that if you disconnect the house ground and your house gets hit by lightning(a storm is usually when we have a genny on) that the genny ground probably isn't going to be able to handle that sort of jolt.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

andrew79 said:


> I've done some searching and the only thing i can find on actually driving in a ground rod at the genny location is that it's suggested only if the distance is far from the house, otherwise it should be tied into the house grounding system to keep the same potential. Don't have a code reference on it just searched threads from other forums. What they suggest if the genny is a long distance out is to drive a ground rod in and bond the case to the ground rod. I can see why they say this as you don't want a potential difference between your two ground points but i can't see why anyone would want to install a genny far enough from a house that it would make a difference


If the generator truly is a SDS, then article 250.30 takes place... as a side note, if the generator is not a SDS, and is remotely located and you still want to drive a ground rod, then at that point it is an auxiliary ground rod, and maybe will help with a lightning strike?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

The way I see it, you have two options when wiring a portable generator to to a structure, this all depends on the generator you purchase, 

IF the generator does contain a N-G bond, then you MUST switch the grounded (neutral) conductor at the transfer switch, making the generator a SDS by definition and article 250.30 now applies and ground rods are required.

IF the generator contains a floating grounded (neutral) conductor, then you can use a standard 2-pole transfer switch and have a solidly grounded (neutral) circuit connection, and NOT require a ground rod at the generator.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

andrew79 said:


> So at this point you would think that the adjustments need to be made on the house tie in side to avoid having to take out and replace the bond wire in the genny every time you use it for a different application.



I've heard of some generators that just contain a switch on the unit for this purpose. 

just stating, not directing this comment, 

Look how difficult this is for professionals to understand, you think mr. smith is going to know the difference between the two? or care for that matter? Because it will work either way... until an unfortunate mishap takes place.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> I've heard of some generators that just contain a switch on the unit for this purpose.
> 
> just stating, not directing this comment,
> 
> Look how difficult this is for professionals to understand, you think mr. smith is going to know the difference between the two? or care for that matter? Because it will work either way... until an unfortunate mishap takes place.


Please explain what an unfortunate mishap would involve.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> The way I see it, you have two options when wiring a portable generator to to a structure, this all depends on the generator you purchase,
> 
> IF the generator does contain a N-G bond, then you MUST switch the grounded (neutral) conductor at the transfer switch, making the generator a SDS by definition and article 250.30 now applies and ground rods are required.
> 
> IF the generator contains a floating grounded (neutral) conductor, then you can use a standard 2-pole transfer switch and have a solidly grounded (neutral) circuit connection, and NOT require a ground rod at the generator.


just to play devils advocate here but if the genny is close to the house and you've switched out the neutral and left the ground tied in then it is still grounded through your house grounding system and therefore you shouldn't need a ground rod. I don't have a copy of the nec but if the part i found on google is a direct copy then it doesn't say in that article that a separate ground rod needs to be driven just that it needs to have a ground to earth to stabilize the voltages. If there's a section that says it does need a ground rod then please post it so i can file it away in my "obscure code references folder" on my pc. Even stuff i've found myself sometimes i can never find again in the code book lol.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

What I am leaning towards is not always having a separate continuous equipment grounding conductor between generator and panel being fed, which permits using any kind of transfer that is otherwise legal, and rolling up any kind of portable generator to the inlet receptacle on the side of the house.

(copied from another forum) Because no current flows in the generator to house panel lines when the transfer is set to utility power, there cannot be any voltage drop in that neutral and for a generator whose ground and neutral are permanently bonded, the voltage at the generator body is zero relative to the house grounding electrode conductor (the latter and the generator neutral are connected to the panel neutral bus). Should a ground fault occur somewhere in the house wiring, that would be resolved at the house panel neutral bus.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Open question, if the only connection between current carrying conductors in the generator subsystem and current carrying conductors in the utility system is the single connection of the neutrals respectively meeting together with the grounding electrode conductor at the neutral bus bar in a panel, why would the generator system not be considered separately derived?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

andrew79 said:


> just to play devils advocate here but if the genny is close to the house and you've switched out the neutral and left the ground tied in then it is still grounded through your house grounding system and therefore you shouldn't need a ground rod. I don't have a copy of the nec but if the part i found on google is a direct copy then it doesn't say in that article that a separate ground rod needs to be driven just that it needs to have a ground to earth to stabilize the voltages. If there's a section that says it does need a ground rod then please post it so i can file it away in my "obscure code references folder" on my pc. Even stuff i've found myself sometimes i can never find again in the code book lol.


Read 250.30 in the nec, if the generator is in fact a sds, then it requires grounding.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

brric said:


> Please explain what an unfortunate mishap would involve.


Think about it, let's say a generator does contain a switch to unbond the neutral and grounding conductor, now let's say the user wants to use a receptacle on the generator, and a ground fault occurs in the appliance, the generator no longer contains ground fault protection and the user is hopefully only slightly shocked.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

AllanJ said:


> Open question, if the only connection between current carrying conductors in the generator subsystem and current carrying conductors in the utility system is the single connection of the neutrals respectively meeting together with the grounding electrode conductor at the neutral bus bar in a panel, why would the generator system not be considered separately derived?


Check out article 100 of the nec, sepretely derived systems.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

andrew79 said:


> just to play devils advocate here but if the genny is close to the house and you've switched out the neutral and left the ground tied in then it is still grounded through your house grounding system and therefore you shouldn't need a ground rod. I don't have a copy of the nec but if the part i found on google is a direct copy then it doesn't say in that article that a separate ground rod needs to be driven just that it needs to have a ground to earth to stabilize the voltages. If there's a section that says it does need a ground rod then please post it so i can file it away in my "obscure code references folder" on my pc. Even stuff i've found myself sometimes i can never find again in the code book lol.


2011 NEC 702.11(A) and (B)
Doesn't say ground rod, says connected to GEC.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> Think about it, let's say a generator does contain a switch to unbond the neutral and grounding conductor, now let's say the user wants to use a receptacle on the generator, and a ground fault occurs in the appliance, the generator no longer contains ground fault protection and the user is hopefully only slightly shocked.


That's a reason the bond should stay. I would like to know an unfortunate mishap occuring because the bond stays in place.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

stickboy1375 said:


> Read 250.30 in the nec, if the generator is in fact a sds, then it requires grounding.


i did read 250.30 and it does say the generator needs grounding, it doesn't say where though, I'd like to see where it says that it needs it's own ground rod and can't be tied into the house grounding system.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

I apologize for being so late to get back to the discussion. It's been a long day ..... 

I've read everyones reply and the good news is it is pretty much the same discussion you see on other professional forums. I'm not going to pretend that I am the knower of all things for grounding a portable genterator .. so that said all I can do is add to the discussion and try to tie in the NEC code to obtain some degree of clarity.

There are a couple things I agree with that some of you have mentioned that determines whether or not a portable generator requires earth grounding. Those are 

1.) Is the generator a seperately derived system (SDS) not serving only cord and plug equipment or equipment mounted on the generator via the frame mounted receptacles

2.) Is the transfer device switching the grounded conductor of the utility to that of the generator.

Lets clarify the defintions of SDS and Service as they appear in the 2008 NEC 




> *Separately Derived System. *
> ​*A premises wiring system **whose power is derived from a source of electric energy or*
> 
> *equipment other than a service. Such systems have no direct*
> ...


So a generator in order to be considered SDS *must not have* a solid or direct connection to any conductors of another system including the utility grounded conductor. So if the transfer device switches out the neutral and the ungrounded conductors then it would meet the defintion of an SDS. ​ 
On the flip side if the generator switches out the ungrounded conductors and not the neutral then it is a non separately system.​ 
So the next question I would have is what are the grounding requirements of an SDS vs an non SDS ?​ 
NEC 250.20(D)​ 



> *(D) Separately Derived Systems **as covered in 250.20(A) or (B), shall be grounded as*
> 
> *specified in 250.30(A). Where an alternate source such as*
> *an on-site generator is provided with transfer equipment*
> ...




​​So I think it is clear using the NEC to see the differences for grounding a generator portable or otherwise. ​

1.) Your switching device (transfer switch) determines SDS .. ie .. if it switches the neutral from utility to generator it is SDS and is grounded in accordance with 250.30(A). If not then it is not grounded in accordance with 250.30(A)​

If it is non SDS then 250.24(A)(5) applies and neutral and ground must not be bonded load side of the service equipment for the premise wiring system using the alternatge power source.​ 
The interlock is a transfer device that does not switch the neutral of the utility to that of the generator and therefore it is not a SDS. A grounding electrode is not required but neutral and ground cannot be bonded load side of the homes service equipment 250.24(A)(5). So in the situation that was shown to us in the other thread is not SDS and would require that the neutral bond connection at the generator frame be broken and the homes grounding electrode system will remain connected to the service grounded conductor and the earth grounding at the utility transformer. ​ 
I see no way around breaking the neutral and ground bond at the generator to be compliant using a transfer device that does not switch the neutral such as an interlock.. The question is .. if that is the case why are instructions not included in the generator manual to inform you of that? It seems the manufactureres have been slow getting up to speed on this bit of information. ​ 
The question becomes if I don't unbond the generator at what risk to human safety do I incur?​ 
I know that I have certainly created a parallel path with the utility grounded conductor and egc of the generator power cord between the homes service equipment and will certainly have neutral current imposed on it when I operate the generator in a standby application. But frankly I have a hard time seeing any more danger to touching the generator frame than touching the metal of the service equipment enclosure as both are bonded to the utility grounded conductor and the earth grounding at the service. The difference being the generator frame is being used as a conducting path where as the service equipment panel has no current on it. I actually can't remember when I saw a portable connected to a home via a transfer device that didnt switch the neutral that had the neutral and ground bond removed. And to this date I don't have any notification of a human mishap occurring because of it. I have been told that there is more danger if a ground rod is driven in this screnario than not.​ 
Anyway I think Speedy and Brric are maintaining this idea and the generator should remain bonded and not tampered with. I tend to agree though I also believe it may be better/safer to find the right transfer switch or a generator that has neutral and ground unbonded.​ 
Now someone needs to link me to a portable generator that has frame mounted receptacles with neutral and ground unbonded. Since to operate it woulod be to operate it without ground fault protection for human safety.... the ground path for fault current is open ..... ??? ​ 
The only way that works for me is if that generator screams WARNING you need to bond the neutrtal and ground before operating cord and plug tools...... and when you do plug something into a receptacle it will not start with neutral and ground not bonded. ​ 
Hopes this in some way helps ... to summurize IMO the NEC is clear if the gen is SDS a ground rod is required if not SDS no ground rod required. The transfer switch determines this and to that I agree with Stickboy and Alan. ​


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

A ground fault circuit interrupter does not need a ground wire (equipment grounding conductor) to function properly.

We all know that if/when neutral and ground (EGCs) are connected in more than one place then neutral current will flow between these two points using both the neutral and the ground. In turn there will be a voltage drop across these two points or in other words the potential (voltage) between some points along the EGCs and a theoretical ground (something bonded to grounding electrode system with no fault current along that path) will be nonzero.

But for a running generator during a utility power outage the neutral at the generator is the "current sink" or ultimate destination of the current. Thus the generator frame is really not part of the current path. In other words the potential between the still N-G bonded frame and neutral will be zero. And the other point where neutral and ground were intentionally and deliberately left bonded is the neutral bus in the panel, and there the potential between neutral and theoretical ground is zero (and hazard free) because the GEC is connected there.

Let's imagine you had a ground rod for your generator (not the same ground rod that is part of the house grounding electrode system). This will put the earth at the generator at the same potential as the generator body. Because earth is not that great a conductor, the potential between different places, even just a few feet apart, can be measurable depending on presence of current flowing from one grounding electrode to another, due to abnormal conditions. If ground and neutral were left connected both at a generator and at the house panel, then connecting the generator to a ground rod will not change any voltage drop along the EGC between generator and panel by much since very little current will take the third sharable path, the earth.

If the generator has a N-G bond that is intended to be removed, that bond should be in place or removed depending on the needs of the system being energized. (Removed if the panel being fed has N-G bonded.)

* Fault current -- An unwanted current flow resulting from an energized object coming into contact with another object when it should not.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

i've spent awhile getting familiar with the nec(2012) and i came across this exception in 7.30(4)
Exception No. 2 to (1) and (2): If a separately derived
system originates in listed equipment suitable for use as
service equipment, the grounding electrode used for the
service or feeder equipment shall be permitted as the
grounding electrode for the separately derived system.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

andrew79 said:


> i've spent awhile getting familiar with the nec(2012) and i came across this exception in 7.30(4)
> Exception No. 2 to (1) and (2): If a separately derived
> system originates in listed equipment suitable for use as
> service equipment, the grounding electrode used for the
> ...


Where ould I find 7.30(4)? There is no 2012 NEC.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

sorry it says 2011, 2012 is my canadian book. I've got too many laying around lol. let me know if there's no 2011, i looked in the 08 and couldn't find it.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

andrew79 said:


> sorry it says 2011, 2012 is my canadian book. I've got too many laying around lol. let me know if there's no 2011, i looked in the 08 and couldn't find it.


 There is no NEC article 7.30 anyhere, any year for at least the last 20 years.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

again my bad, it's been a long weekend, 250.30(4) exception number two. Don't ask how i got 730 out of that because i don't know. and it is in the 2008 version just down a little farther.


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

So I'm guessing this thread is derived from my plea for help determining how/if to run the neutral and ground connections from my generator to my main power panel. 

Based on the discussion in that thread and this one, I _think _I have an idea of how to do this, but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. 

I've attached an amended copy of my wiring diagram. Basically, my understanding is that I should ground the generator outside, per the owner's manual, but only tie the generator neutral to the power panel's neutral bus, but _not_ the ground connection, since the generator has an NG bond that's not easily removed, and since ground and neutral are already bonded in the panel.

Am I missing anything here?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

It's wrong but I won't correct you. I would do it that way too assuming the generator is portable.

We may have a generator whose N-G bond can't be easily removed, and a main panel which we do not want to revamp, unbonding N-G. Ergo N-G remains bonded in both places which is not proper. A transfer switch that switches the neutral won't make any difference here.

I would just grab a patch cable and connect it all together.

Untying the ground wire between generator and panel is needed only if a GFCI trips otherwise.


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

AllanJ said:


> It's wrong but I won't correct you. I would do it that way too assuming the generator is portable.


Yes, it's a portable generator. Why is this wrong? Not saying it isn't wrong, just wondering what's wrong with it and why you'd do it this way too if it's wrong.



AllanJ said:


> We may have a generator whose N-G bond can't be easily removed, and a main panel which we do not want to revamp, unbonding N-G. Ergo N-G remains bonded in both places which is not proper. A transfer switch that switches the neutral won't make any difference here.
> 
> I would just grab a patch cable and connect it all together.


Connect all what together? 



AllanJ said:


> Untying the ground wire between generator and panel is needed only if a GFCI trips otherwise.


But doesn't connecting the ground from the generator to the panel risk putting current potential on the ground line because of two N-G bonds? Is whether the GFCI trips really the main concern here? Above you indicate it's improper to bond N-G at both ends, but here you'd do it, but only if it didn't trip the GFCI?


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

tjnoff said:


> So I'm guessing this thread is derived from my plea for help determining how/if to run the neutral and ground connections from my generator to my main power panel.
> 
> Based on the discussion in that thread and this one, I _think _I have an idea of how to do this, but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...


If you follow the NEC the ground rod at the generator is not needed. You only need a connection to the grounding electrode for the service to your home. This would be the connection of your equipment ground and neutral in the wiring from the generator to the neutral bar in the homes service panel in your drawing. Unless your transfer switch (in your case the interlock) switches the service neutral out and you have no soild connection to the neutral in the wiring coming from your generator then you do not have a seperately derived system and grounding the generator with a ground rod is not required.
The probelm arises from the neutral and ground bond at the generator. This is not allowed because objectionable current will flow on the equipment ground wire in the generator cord as it is in parallel with the neutral current returning to the source (generator).
This was addressed for years in the manufacturer manuals with " should be wired by a licensed electrician". It's problematic becasue portable generators need neutral to ground bonding to safely operate cord and plug power tools from the receptacles mounted on the portable generator.

So to clarify your drawing .... the ground rod isn't required at your generator (it is not a seperately derived system). But the NEC also does not allow the neutral to ground bond at the generator unless it is a Seperately Derived power source.. 

I would not provide earth grounding of the generator with the ground rod in your drawing. Frankly I'm not sure what to tell you about the neutral to ground bond at the generator. Your first drawing in the other thread would be how 99% of most homeowners would operate and ground the generator. IMO the risk is minimal in doing so, just the same I don't like the idea of current on the ground wire.

I remember somewhere a drawing that expalined the hazard I'll see if I can locate it and provide a link.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

tjnoff said:


> Yes, it's a portable generator.
> 
> 1. Why is this wrong? Not saying it isn't wrong, Just wondering what's wrong with it and
> 
> ...


1. Because ground and neutral should not be bonded in two places per the NEC.

2. Saves having to mutilate the generator or redo the main panel just to get things working in a situation that is temporary (like a power outage).

3. As shown in your diagram, connecting the patch cord from the generator to the inlet on the side of the house as 99% of other homeowners do.

4. I do not see any hazard. Since the generator is the power source, electricity on the equipment grounding conductor is not going to be using your body to get back to the power source. No different than a generator out in the field (its N-G should be bonded). IMHO the multiple N-G bondings and current on the EGC is the least of the evils.

5. If the generator GFCI trips then you don't have electricity. So I suggested a workaround of not having an unbroken EGC such as using a patch cord with just two hots and neutral.

6. Even if a licensed electrician installs the generator and connects up the patch cord, he will have the same dilemma if that generator did not have an easily removed N-G bond. Incidentally many whole house transfer switches (as opposed to back feed breakers and mechanical interlocks) require unbonding N-G in the panel. And I would recommend restructuring things to have just one N-G bond if you have a permanently installed generator.


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

stubie said:


> If you follow the NEC the ground rod at the generator is not needed. You only need a connection to the grounding electrode for the service to your home. This would be the connection of your equipment ground and neutral in the wiring from the generator to the neutral bar in the homes service panel in your drawing. Unless your transfer switch (in your case the interlock) switches the service neutral out and you have no soild connection to the neutral in the wiring coming from your generator then you do not have a seperately derived system and grounding the generator with a ground rod is not required.
> The probelm arises from the neutral and ground bond at the generator. This is not allowed because objectionable current will flow on the equipment ground wire in the generator cord as it is in parallel with the neutral current returning to the source (generator).
> This was addressed for years in the manufacturer manuals with " should be wired by a licensed electrician". It's problematic becasue portable generators need neutral to ground bonding to safely operate cord and plug power tools from the receptacles mounted on the portable generator.
> 
> ...


I included the ground rod in the latest drawing because I was getting the impression that I should float the ground line between the portable generator and the panel. I figured the generator needed to be grounded _somewhere._

However, I'm now thinking that the safest solution is to:


Connect the generator ground and neutral lines all the way to the panel's neutral bar, as in my first drawing;
Unbond ground and neutral at the generator. I do not plan to use this generator for field work to power tools (as a SDS?). It was purchased strictly as a home backup, although a very obvious reminder label on the generator about reconnecting the bond for SDS use is definitely in order, just in case. The NG bond is just a wire, although I don't know yet how hard it is to get to. If easily accessible, I could reconnect it for field work or warranty repair;
NOT ground the generator to a ground rod.

Does this plan afford the safest solution, in your opinion?

The hazard drawing would be helpful, thank you!


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

tjnoff said:


> I
> Connect the generator ground and neutral lines all the way to the panel's neutral bar, as in my first drawing;
> Unbond ground and neutral at the generator. I do not plan to use this generator for field work to power tools (as a SDS?). It was purchased strictly as a home backup, although a very obvious reminder label on the generator about reconnecting the bond for SDS use is definitely in order, just in case. The NG bond is just a wire, although I don't know yet how hard it is to get to. If easily accessible, I could reconnect it for field work or warranty repair;
> NOT ground the generator to a ground rod.
> ...


Yes this is a correct and safe solution and is probably the best.

Because the generator has a label mentioning reconnecting the N-G bond, that would mean that the bond was intended to be disconnected depending on the need, and everything works fine that way. If you have to unscrew a panel on the generator as described in the instructions, that is okay too.


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

AllanJ said:


> Yes this is a correct and safe solution and is probably the best.
> 
> Because the generator has a label mentioning reconnecting the N-G bond, that would mean that the bond was intended to be disconnected depending on the need, and everything works fine that way. If you have to unscrew a panel on the generator as described in the instructions, that is okay too.


No, the label would be something I would add. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

So looking at the owner's manual (http://www.generac.com/genApps/Libraries/Manuals/ViewManual.aspx?ItemNbr=0H3530&modelnbr=0057980), page 8, section 2.4.3 looks to me to address the NG bonding. The upper image is for my generator. So I'm assuming that the two wires mentioned here would need to be disconnected. Am I reading this correctly?


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## Auger01 (Sep 13, 2011)

Remove those wires and then check for continuity between the neutral and ground at the outlets. No continuity means you are good to go. If you still have neutral-ground continuity then there is still another jumper that needs to be disconnected. FYI, I have seen a lot of generators with a jumper on the L14-30 outlet between the neutral and ground.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

My new 4-wire generdryer conforms to the NEC. :whistling2: :laughing:


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

OK, thanks to everyone for sticking with this complicated issue. Once I get all of my parts, I will piece this together and test it. I will post my results here.


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## tjnoff (Jun 29, 2012)

zappa said:


> My new 4-wire generdryer conforms to the NEC. :whistling2: :laughing:
> 
> View attachment 53527


Well, heck... if I'm gonna put a dryer outside the house, I may as well put an old Buick out there on cinder blocks and make a _real_ generator out of the V8! :shifty:


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

the place where my father works was once owned by a genius born in the wrong town at the wrong time of the century, He built a genny out of a 8 cylinder ford from spare parts that runs a house and a hardware store/convenience store at the same time. It's something else to see. Next time i'm home i'll take some pictures and post them. It looks like something out of a jules verne novel. It may actually be old enough to be in them too :laughing:


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

andrew79 said:


> He built a genny out of a 8 cylinder ford from spare parts that runs a house and a hardware store/convenience store at the same time. It's something else to see. Next time i'm home i'll take some pictures and post them. It looks like something out of a jules verne novel. It may actually be old enough to be in them too :laughing:


Did it have a voltage regulator? Or were the loads it served not that sensitive to varying voltage, such as incandescent lights a little under-voltaged and motors not at maximum loading?


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> Did it have a voltage regulator? Or were the loads it served not that sensitive to varying voltage, such as incandescent lights a little under-voltaged and motors not at maximum loading?


it's regulated, runs three ice cream freezers, a bunch of fridges, flourescent lighting, Alarm system. He built the regulator himself, don't ask me how, i've never gotten a good enough look at it to even start to figure out everything he's got in there.


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