# grounding rods for spas



## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

do i really need a grounding rod for my spa. when i picked up the spa from original owner. i disconnected it myself. the spa is only 4 years old. and it is a 4 wire system, and all there was to disconnect was 4 wires. i saw no grounding rod anywhere near the spa or connected to it. so. my question is again, do i need a grounding rod for the spa, if so, where does the rod go, and what wires connect to it, i know it needs to be a #8 Or# 6 solid wire. but have no idea how to hook it up. i hear people say, yes, then i read that it isnt neccessary. i dont want to kill my family, so this is very important to me, and i am right in the middle of finishing the wiring. please help me, it is very frustrating.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

scottyweis said:


> do i really need a grounding rod for my spa.


No. This has never been a requirement. 
Who said you did? They were wrong. :whistling2:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

scottyweis said:


> do i really need a grounding rod for my spa. when i picked up the spa from original owner. i disconnected it myself. the spa is only 4 years old. and it is a 4 wire system, and all there was to disconnect was 4 wires. i saw no grounding rod anywhere near the spa or connected to it. so. my question is again, do i need a grounding rod for the spa, if so, where does the rod go, and what wires connect to it, i know it needs to be a #8 Or# 6 solid wire. but have no idea how to hook it up. i hear people say, yes, then i read that it isnt neccessary. i dont want to kill my family, so this is very important to me, and i am right in the middle of finishing the wiring. please help me, it is very frustrating.


As Speedy has said no grounding rod .... but it is important that you know all that is required for the code compliance for a spa installation. What are you using as a reference or guide for code compliance ? 

A detailed description of what you have done to this point would help us determine if the spa is meeting those requirements.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution. but i have never seen a grounding rod by a spa in my life, and i have seen a few. 
i am basically using my electrical knowledge and website that have wiring diagrams as my guide. the owners manual is helping as well. the spa is a 240v 60hz 40a, 4 wire spa. have pvc conduit ran through my attic already. a total of roughly 100 ft. from service panel to GFCI panel box(50a spa breaker box) then another 10 ft. underground to the spa. from what ive read and know. i am going to use #6 THHN copper wire because of the length of the run. now i am very handy around the house, i consider myself a carpenter and live by that. but electrical is always a concern to me, so i really take my time and ask alot of questions when it come to it. i feel that i dont need a grounding rod. if i am grounded at the panel box, the spa breaker box, and the actual spa panel. that is all i should need. RIGHT? 
I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU WHO ARE RESPONDING TO MY ISSUES.

thank you speedy. i had a feeling that was the case. if there is any way you could help me more. my wife and family would really appreicate it. i think im on the right track so far. but this dam rod concern has got me questioning the whole safety issue


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Ground rods are for high voltage events like lightning. Your spa does not need one, nor would it benefit you to add one.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

thank you jim, i think i have made up my mind, im not going to worry about it anymore. i appreciate your help


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

There is a hot tub bonding grid needed now....


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

scottyweis said:


> i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution. but i have never seen a grounding rod by a spa in my life, and i have seen a few.
> i am basically using my electrical knowledge and website that have wiring diagrams as my guide. the owners manual is helping as well. the spa is a 240v 60hz 40a, 4 wire spa. have pvc conduit ran through my attic already. a total of roughly 100 ft. from service panel to GFCI panel box(50a spa breaker box) then another 10 ft. underground to the spa. from what ive read and know. i am going to use #6 THHN copper wire because of the length of the run. now i am very handy around the house, i consider myself a carpenter and live by that. but electrical is always a concern to me, so i really take my time and ask alot of questions when it come to it. i feel that i dont need a grounding rod. if i am grounded at the panel box, the spa breaker box, and the actual spa panel. that is all i should need. RIGHT?
> I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU WHO ARE RESPONDING TO MY ISSUES.


That is fine be sure you use conduit all the way to the spa control panel. Liquid tight is common from the spa panel back to the spa control panel.Your equipment ground wire must be insulated green and can be #10 awg copper, neutral insulated white, the hot conductors can be black insulated all should be #6 awg.

You should have your installation inspected to insure safety by the local code authority.

I'm going to link you to a pool download to read about spas and the sections you need to reference ... come back here with questions. New code requires a bonding grid under the spa but this will depend on your jurisdiction and adopted code cycle.

Scroll down to Part IV 680.40

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf

A 4 wire spa is 120/240 volt and requires a neutral the connections to spa panel will be similar to this ...


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

scottyweis said:


> i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution.


Wherever you got this from it is completely bogus. 
My first question to anyone with this statement would be WHAT is it a precaution against? I bet anything they would not know how to answer. Because there is no correct answer. :no:


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Without looking IIRC there is a limit of 6' of LFNMC to feed the hot tub.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Jim Port said:


> Without looking IIRC there is a limit of 6' of LFNMC to feed the hot tub.



Jim.,

In most case oui it is 6 feet but very few exempts that they will allow more longer { that is up to the inspector final call if that in guideline withen state codes }

I know in Wisconsin it is 6 feet and in France it is 2.5 meter max distance with LFNMC but for other use { if cable tray or part of equiment set up then it is allowed }

Merci.
Marc


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

what the heck is LFNMC. and what is the ft. length refering to.

thank you for the diagram stubbie. i found a similiar one, so it looks like the ground wire can be a smaller gauge wir, #10 awg. is this safe and ok by codes. that sure would save on cost of wire, since i have about a 100 ft. run. i was going to get all 4 wire at #6 awg. 
also, the spa breaker box i bought 50amp. has a, what looks to be "lead" bar screwed to on the inside of the box. what is this for


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

scottyweis said:


> what the heck is LFNMC. and what is the ft. length refering to.


The LFNMC is Liquidtite Fexibale Non Metalic Conduit.

There is very specfic part in NEC code we only allow up to 6 feet maxuim distance anything longer it will need specal extempt by inspector or it was part of machinery.

Now for your conductors sizes.,

For the green grounding conductor it have to be minuim of 6.0mm² { #10AWG } and it can NOT be bare conductor inside the conduit this is one of few specfic codes we have to follow { The bare conductors will be allowed only in indoor location that it }

For the line conductors and neturals those three conductors you will need at least 16mm² {#6 AWG } copper. 

Oui (Yes ) you will have to use the netural at spa panel so get the RCD { GFCI } to function properly. { see Stubbie diagram to make sure you understand it }


Merci.
Marc


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

ok, that makes sense since i am running pvc electrical conduit throught the entire run, except for right where i go into the spas side wall. composite material. from there, i am using the flex line to the actual spa circuit board.
i have to say, you all really are a big help in this matter, im glad there are people out there like you that are willing to share their knowledge.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

_You do need the inspectors approval as Jim and Frenchy stated to comply with 680.42(A)(1) to go longer than 6 feet with either LFNMC or LFMC. This is required for SPAS only to my knowledge See NEC 250.118 (6)a-e if you have a length longer than 6 feet._


I think you may have mentioned 10 feet so if you run that far basically you would install like this after inspector approval

LFNMC can be longer than 6 feet if supported at 3 foot intervals...NEC 356.10 (5) It is not very friendly though in cold weather.

LFMC









LFMC can be longer than 6 feet as long as your not going to use it for equipment ground.... If you run a insulated ground wire which is required for the spa it can be longer than 6 feet and supported a t 3 feet intervals.


Scott:

The circuit breaker protecting your feeder wires determines the equipment ground wire size . If the breaker is 30 - 60 amps #10 awg copper insulated green ground is code compliant for your spa. NEC 250.122


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

instead of sounding like a know it all snob, why not explain yourself. instead of calling people out, i love advise. but not from an ass, if you are an electrician, tell us whats up. i just want to do it right, so when i get it inspected, and hope it passes, and life will go on.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

scottyweis said:


> instead of sounding like a know it all snob, why not explain yourself. instead of calling people out, i love advise. but not from an ass, if you are an electrician, tell us whats up. i just want to do it right, so when i get it inspected, and hope it passes, and life will go on.


Who is this directed at? I hope not Stubbie or Marc.  They are two of the most helpful forum dwellers I know.

Now me, I can definitely be an ass. In fact I embrace that, but these guys no way. :thumbsup:


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

scottyweis said:


> instead of sounding like a know it all snob, why not explain yourself. instead of calling people out, i love advise. but not from an ass, if you are an electrician, tell us whats up. i just want to do it right, so when i get it inspected, and hope it passes, and life will go on.


I don't know where this will pointed to whom but let us make it clear in this fourm we have quite few electricians whom been in the trade for many years and I have know them in other fourms as well and I respect them and they do respect me and we do give the members in this fourm a stright answer and we don't screw around with it.

Myself I am master Electrician in State of Wisconsin and Paris France for over 24 years now and I am well verised with both Americian and European codes so there is nothing I am hiding at all.

So please respect us we do steer the members in right way.

Merci beaucoup 

Marc 

Americian and French Master electrician.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

As a Moderator here I too would like to know what prompted this

You went from this:



> i have to say, you all really are a big help in this matter, im glad there are people out there like you that are willing to share their knowledge


To this:



scottyweis said:


> instead of sounding like a know it all snob, why not explain yourself. instead of calling people out, i love advise. but not from an ass, if you are an electrician, tell us whats up. i just want to do it right, so when i get it inspected, and hope it passes, and life will go on.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Come on guys we all know it was meant for Speedy.......:laughing:

I'm sweet as sugar .. so it's not me

Marc is like fresh apple pie on a Saturday morning .. so nope not Marc

Scuba is as cool as a cucumber :cool2:.. so again no

Someone that has none of these traits .... no sugar, no pie, no cucumber = a New York electrician :devil2:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Stubbie said:


> ......... a New York electrician :devil2:


Ouch. Now that hurt. 
If that is how I am seen I may just have to change my profile. :jester:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

No don't do that .... stay just the way you are.....:yes:


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

it was directed toward speedy, i meant no disrespect by it, i just didnt like the way he answered a question by saying someones information was bogus, and that they were basically an idiot. and to make myself very clear, i do!!!!!!! appreciate all of the help and concern of all you electricians, it really means alot to me. speedy, i know you are great at your work and probably busy too, so im sorry if i sounded a little brash, i just really want to get this project done right, and all of you are helping me get closer to that. and thank you for taking the time to steer me in the right direction.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Scottyweis.,

Thanks for being to point whom it toward and SpeedyPete is very good guy.

I am glad you want to do this in correct way and let us know how it come out when you get this done.

Merci.
Marc


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

scottyweis said:


> it was directed toward speedy, i meant no disrespect by it, i just didnt like the way he answered a question by saying someones information was bogus, and that they were basically an idiot. and to make myself very clear, i do!!!!!!! appreciate all of the help and concern of all you electricians, it really means alot to me. speedy, i know you are great at your work and probably busy too, so im sorry if i sounded a little brash, i just really want to get this project done right, and all of you are helping me get closer to that. and thank you for taking the time to steer me in the right direction.


Hi Scotty

This type of thing happens once and a while. There is no disrespect meant by us either. Speedy feels very strongly about the necessity for spa and pool installations to be professional. So when he sees a homeowner getting bad or unsafe advice it raises his hair a bit. 

The good thing is your on this site making sure the advice your getting from other sources is accurate and not unsafe. You've mentioned the safety of your family being top priority which is quite commendable.

Anyway we're still here to answer your questions or whatever you would like to understand about your spa installation.

My advice for you would be to install the spa at 2008 standards even though you could install it under the standards of a previous code cycle if that is the code your local jurisdiction has adopted and enforces.

You can in several cities or counties get a pool/spa installation guideline from the building department so you might check online or in person for one of those.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

That's usually anybody here wants...the job done right
Glad to see you are researching how to DIR...Do It Right :thumbsup:
Pools & hot tubs can be complicated
Glad mine are both in


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

scottyweis said:


> it was directed toward speedy, i meant no disrespect by it, i just didnt like the way he answered a question by saying someones information was bogus, and that they were basically an idiot. and to make myself very clear, i do!!!!!!! appreciate all of the help and concern of all you electricians, it really means alot to me. speedy, i know you are great at your work and probably busy too, so im sorry if i sounded a little brash, i just really want to get this project done right, and all of you are helping me get closer to that. and thank you for taking the time to steer me in the right direction.


I have no problem with this and am not offended at all. 

I am a pretty frank person. I usually don't hold back too much on my opinions, especially if it is regarding a topic I know quite a bit about. 

My point was actually out of frustration more than anything. It bothers me when folks give advice like they really know what they are talking about when in fact the opposite is true. This is what I was saying in post #9.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

thanks for understanding the whole situation. and speedy, your help along with all you others has been great, i guess i just took it the wrong way, im really going to get this thing going in the next week. i have my permits and all. so when i call for the inspection, i have no doubts that it will pass because of the great advice given to me on this site from all of you, i will be sure to use it as much as i can now that i own my first house ever. like i said, i have been a carpenter for the better part of 20 years, so i love working on and building homes, so to own my own house is just the best feeling in the world for me and my family.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Just so you know you getting my good advice here is one of my first hot tub installs ... :thumbup: yes I'm joking


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

This is one Marc did in France ... notice he improved the water heater over mine.......ok I'm finished .....:wink:


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Stubbie said:


> This is one Marc did in France ... notice he improved the water heater over mine.......ok I'm finished .....:wink:


And Marc wants us all to know how busy he is. Now the cat is out of the bag. 

Note: no cats were harmed in the making of this post.

BTW Stubbie, is that is really a fish poacher in your back yard? We know how you like to fish :thumbup:


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Stubbie .,, shoot ya got my cat out of the bag !!! anyway thanks for the photo that is good one.

Merci.
Marc


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

nice pics, 
if i may, i have another question for you all. '
i am on the home stretch now. all i need is to connect to my service panel, my spa is 40a, i got the 50a spa box, so i need to get my double pull breaker for the service panel. do i need a 50a since my spa box is 50a, or is the 40a breaker the choice to get since the spa is only 40a.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

If your spa do required 40 amp breaker then you have to use 40 amp breaker unless it stated otherwise I know many spas the amparage requirement will varies a bit useally 40 and 50 and 60 amp size is pretty common but 50 is the most common.

Double check with your manufacter tag or details on it If say 40 then you have to get 40 amp RCD { GFCI } breaker at spa panel { they are not really cheap they run anywhere from 30 to 80 Euros depending on what brand it is }

Merci.
Marc


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

hey speedy. its me, scott, with the spa. i have an issue with my service panel and im hoping you can help me out. 
i of course need a 50a double pull breaker for the spa, but i dont have a 2 inch spot at my panel. i have 2 vacant spots, but they are both 1 inch. now, i could move a few breakers around, but instead of doing that. is there such thing as a 50a double pull thats 1 inch in size


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## oleguy74 (Aug 23, 2010)

the 240 double pole is two 1 inch breakers riveted together.may have to move one breaker up or down to get two spaces side by side.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The 240v breaker pulls power from both feeds to get 240v
A 1" breaker only pulls power from one side...120v 
So you do need (2) spaces side by side


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

scottyweis said:


> hey speedy. its me, scott, with the spa. i have an issue with my service panel and im hoping you can help me out.
> i of course need a 50a double pull breaker for the spa, but i dont have a 2 inch spot at my panel. i have 2 vacant spots, but they are both 1 inch. now, i could move a few breakers around, but instead of doing that. is there such thing as a 50a double pull thats 1 inch in size


What brand of panel, and can you post a pic?
Some panels will take a slim 50 amp 2 pole as long as you can hit both legs.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

ok,that makes alot of sense, thanks for clarifying that for me, its pretty simple when you put it that way. i should be able to juggle a breaker here or there to acomodate the double. 
thanks again


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Scott.,

I know the GE load centre do have 1/2 inch breaker capale set up so with 1 inch 2 pole breakers you will have to move up or down HALF not full slot so you can hit both legs you will noticed on the bussbar tabs arrangement.

I think there is one or other brand do the same thing as well but I don't recall it at the moment.

Merci.
Marc


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> No. This has never been a requirement.
> Who said you did? They were wrong. :whistling2:


I would say that it depends on the location of the spa. I had one located about 30 feet from the house and the inspector declared it a "separate building or structure" and required a ground rod. I've had the same thing on automatic generators located only a few feet from the house. I could have argued this one since the generator is not being fed from the home, except for the battery charging circuit which falls under the single branch circuit exception.

Mark


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

i see what you mean, byut my spa is only 7 feet from the house, in the back corner, which is about 90 feet from the service panel. and only 10 feet from my spa breaker panel.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

busman said:


> I would say that it depends on the location of the spa. I had one located about 30 feet from the house and the inspector declared it a "separate building or structure" and required a ground rod.


Wow. Seriously? Well your guy was wrong as well. And the fact that he requested this is quite absurd.
Even if it were a separate building or structure (which it is NOT :laughing, it would only require a ground rod if it were supplied with a feeder (which it is NOT). 
If it is fed with one circuit (it IS), it does not require a grounding electrode. 
If this ever comes up again you can reference NEC _250.32(A)Exception_.





busman said:


> I've had the same thing on automatic generators located only a few feet from the house. I could have argued this one since the generator is not being fed from the home, except for the battery charging circuit which falls under the single branch circuit exception.


This is correct. A standby genset DOES require a grounding electrode.
NEC 250.30


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

Speedy,

This one did have feeders. The spa panel (which served as the required disconnecting means) was mounted on the deck that was built around the spa, so I really couldn't argue the point. Sorry I wasn't clear in the description.

As far as the standby genset, it requires a grounding electrode, but it was connected to the house's grounding electrode, so no additional ground rod should have been required. It was not an SDS.

Mark


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

busman said:


> Speedy,
> 
> This one did have feeders. The spa panel (which served as the required disconnecting means) was mounted on the deck that was built around the spa, so I really couldn't argue the point. Sorry I wasn't clear in the description.
> 
> Mark


Ahhhhh...then the panel could have required an electrode. I will say, I have NEVER had an inspector require an electrode for a spa panel. If it were mounted on it's own pedestal or "structure", and had more than one circuit in it it would definitely require an electrode. 
If it was just a single circuit disconnect I cannot see requiring an electrode.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

im starting to understand, and like your straight to the pointism. i just made that word up. although i am a little confused on the discision. it still sounds like i DONT need an additional grounding rod in my case.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

scottyweis said:


> im starting to understand, and like your straight to the pointism. i just made that word up. although i am a little confused on the discision. it still sounds like i DONT need an additional grounding rod in my case.



A ground rod is not needed and you will not get any extra safety by having one. If you did decide to have one, make sure you absolutly do still run a ground wire back to your main panel. A ground rod downstream does not establish a new ground and would be a hazard


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Scotty 

Your spa panel is attached to your house which has the service equipment (main panel) it has all the grounding to earth done at that panel.
Now lets say you had a pool or spa house separate from your dwelling with the service equipment .... and in that spa house was your spa panel. In that case you would require a ground rod for protection of property not humans.

680.26(B) Tells you there is no requirement to connect to any ground rods in your situation. 

Ground rods offer no protection for humans. They are not the same as the equipment grounding conductors which facilitate the opening of circuit breakers and are meant to protect humans from electrocution. The bonding wire that connects all the metal parts together for the spa and the equipotential grid under the spa plus the equipment grounding is what keeps you safe. Driving a ground rod just adds needless metal in the ground.

You could drive a 100 of them around your pool/spa with no benefit to human safety.


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## scottyweis (Aug 31, 2010)

well the wiring is all run. all hooked up. filled the spa to make sure it all works, and BAM!!!!!! everything works great. now all we need is the inspection. thanks so much for all of the advice and concerns. i will surely use this site in the future for anything i may have questions about. anybody know how to make a wife happy? lol


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## DaveMcSF (Mar 17, 2014)

You guy's have condoned the use of a #10 ground on the way to the main service from a tub that needs #6---I was told (Dr Spa) that 1. The ground needs to be same or larger than the feeder size and 2 a ground may NOT be3 reduced on the way to the main service---( http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3) So who is correct?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The NEC allows a #10. Sometimes the instructions call for a #6, which is above the NEC requirement.


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## DaveMcSF (Mar 17, 2014)

Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

DaveMcSF said:


> Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
> Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?


The NEC requires one thing, but sometimes a spa with require some more than NEC requires.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

DaveMcSF said:


> Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
> Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?


Where did you get this misinformation?


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

I believe they're saying according to the NEC it's permitted. However equipment manufactures can spec out something more than the NEC requirement but not less than. While the experts here are generally thoroughly versed in NEC, I wouldn't expect them to know the mfgs requirements of every piece of equipment that exists.


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## DaveMcSF (Mar 17, 2014)

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,18111.0.html "I'm reading this as, from the breaker main panel, your feeding the spa disconnect (you're calling this a "sub panel", but since it's ONLY feeding the spa, it technically isn't a sub panel). 

In the USA there's what's called the National Electric Codes (NEC). Most municipalities adopt these codes...some are many years behind current codes, some add their own or make some of the codes more stringent. There are a number of electric codes SPECIFICALLY for pools and spas that are DIFFERENT that the "normal" electric codes. MANY electricians, and even building inspectors are either unaware of, or misinterpret these codes. While liquid tight is common to be used, there is a MAXIMUM length, by code, it can be run. I believe it's 6 feet, though it may be 3. But again, you may be able to get away with doing something differently if no one catches it, or is aware of this limitation. 

The ground wire must be capable of carrying the same amperage as the hot wires. A smaller wire will not do this. The potential, with a direct short, is that the smaller ground wire will melt before the breaker trips, and now the spa wont be grounded. (FYI, you CAN run a smaller neutral wire, but most inspectors wont allow it without you proving it's acceptable).


Remember, just because you read it on the internet, it's not necessarily true....and I may not be completely correct in my responses (the codes do change every year, and it's been a few years since I've seen the code book...and any municipality is free to adopt what ever codes they "feel like")"


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

DaveMcSF said:


> "Remember, just because you read it on the internet, it's not necessarily true....and I may not be completely correct in my responses ...."


He's not correct. Not unless he can provide a code citation to back it up....which he will NOT find in the NEC. 

In Art.680 it specifically states that the interior wiring portion to a spa or pool motor in a single family dwelling can use the wiring methods in Chapter 3. This would include NM cable.

I think you need to go back and tell him he's wrong. 
He's even wrong in a previous post where he says "most inspectors are unaware of this specific code and will allow you to go ONE size smaller". He does not know what he is talking about. Grounds are sized according to Table 250.122, NOT "one size smaller".


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

How can he say you can do something if its wrong? I would think he'd quote a source. 

And you sound pretty disingenuous to the guys trying to help you here.

Shady

Your "other" source has the caveat.... "I may not be completely correct in my responses."


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## Desertdrifter (Dec 10, 2009)

AND... You glommed on to a 4 year old post.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

clw1963 said:


> AND... You glommed on to a 4 year old post.


And double posted at the same time.


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## DaveMcSF (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey, don't get so excited---I appreciate all your help---I would though rather be safe than sorry--if I use a ground that is the same as the # 6's to the spa---what does it hurt? It cost me an extra $31.00. I would rather do that than have an inspector tell me my ground was too small. Your response was, pardon me, short and cryptic basically "the NEC allows 10"---while I appreciate that I am reading over and over that spas are "different"---I am the layman here--I don't want to re-pull wire--so I read what all you guys said and made a decision. 
Again I appreciate all you advice you are the experts.
Dave Mc (old TI supt)


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