# Cape Cod Style House Attic/Crawl Space Insulation Help



## Danielg

The house has a Cape Cod roof without any gables in the bedrooms. There are two bedrooms and a bath on the top floor in the back half of the house. The roof angles (45 degrees) down to the front of the house just above the middle floor.

In front of each of the bedrooms, there is a crawl space (storage space) that has end vents on both of the sides of the space.

That gives me a not-so-standard attic space. There is blown in insulation on the flat part of the attic (above the bedrooms) but it's settled to a couple inches below the 2X4 or 2X6s that make up the ceiling of the bedrooms. I will blow in more insulation but that's not really the problem I cannot wrap myself around.

At the front of the house there are channels running about 3'-4' from the front storage area to the actual attic where the 2X6s that make up the A frame of the house touch the ceiling of the bedroom. The previous owner and/or builder of the house filled those spaces with fiberglass insulation with the vapor barrier paper against the bottom wood of the channel. I cannot see where this is a good thing as that means there is no air flowing up that channel at all.

Still in the storage space, the spaces between the rafters is filled with fiberglass insulation with the silver backing. The silver backing (radiant barrier) is facing the storage space. This one I can understand more but it still does not allow air to flow against the bottom of the roof.

The vertical wall between the storage space and the bedrooms has unfaced fiberglass insulation the whole way across between the 2X4 wall studs.

___________________________

On to my plan is and my questions:

Put screening at the top of the channels in the front of the house and blow in cellulose all over the flat part of the attic's floor.

Rip out the fiberglass insulation from each of the channels so the attic fan can pull air from the storage space as well.

Cover the underside of the rafter studs with the silver radiant barrier and leave about 1' on the top of each of the inclines so air can come out there to be sucked out by the attic fan.

Cover the unfaced insulation on the vertical walls of the storage space with a breathing material. I have cats who like the crawl space and don't like the idea of fiberglass in their fur.

I don't know what to do with the roof portion of the crawl space. Pull out the fiberglass insulation there and just put a radiant barrier stapled to the rafters?

What do I do with the channels? They're large enough that I've considered getting the plastic venting things from Lowe's and putting radiant barrier stuff on one side and sliding them into the channels so I at least have something there but that leaves most of them open for ventilation still. Could I put those vents in there like that and fill the bottom of the opening left by the vent with loose fill and leave the part that is near the roof open for ventiliation? Which side should I put the radiant barrier on then?

Help? If it were a straight A frame attic, it would be easier.

I tried roof vents. I destroyed two or three of them trying to get one put in on top of the existing insulation. I ended up ripping out the insulation in the channels and replacing it with R-13, which leaves about 1-1/2" of air between the insulation and the bottom of the roof deck. Holy COW did that make a difference already. I'm used to the house being 77 degrees after a sunny day in the summer and the bedroom being so warm you cannot have even a sheet over you without sweating to death. 
I got home to find the house at 75 degrees and the bedroom was cool enough to take a nap with a sheet and bedspread on top of me. 
Here's a picture: 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/housetopfloor.jpg 
A) The triangular, unheated, space in front of the bedroom. 
B) the "channels" The top of the 2X6 is the roof decking and the bottom of the 2X6 is where the bedroom's ceiling is nailed. These channels are about 5' long from the storage space to the attic, proper. 
C) the standard attic (yes, the ceiling of the bedroom has a down slope in the back of the room) 
D) the bedroom, heated in winter, cooled in summer.

Here is a pic of one of the channels from the bottom. I've taken the insulation out so air can move up through it: 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1240.jpg 

This is what one of them looks like with all insulation intact. The fiberglass at the bottom of the pic completely blocks any airflow up the channel: 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1238.jpg 


This is what the bottom of the roof deck looks like. Those insulation strips are flat against the roof deck in between the rafter joists. 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1237.jpg 


This is what I've done with the other side's channels. I've taken out the insulation against the roof deck and put radient barrier across the rafters: 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1243.jpg 


This is inside the channel. R-13 and about 1-1/2" air space above it. 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1244.jpg 


This is a sideways pic right inside the access door pointing to the side of the house: 
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/mediumpicpict1241.jpg


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## gregzoll

You are better off to rip it all out, and do it right.


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## Danielg

gregzoll said:


> You are better off to rip it all out, and do it right.


Thanks. Any suggestion on what "right" might be?


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## gregzoll

Right would be to fix what the previous owner did by not knowing how to install insulation.


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## citybuilder

You have to do the insulation again by correcting it..You need to redo all the things..thats the only solution


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## Danielg

I appreciate y'all answering. How would I go about finding out what is "right"? Should I get on one of these internet message boards I've heard about and ask there? Do you think someone might clue me in to what is "right" on one of those if I post what's there and give pictures of what it looks like and what my ideas are?


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## gregzoll

The right way, is to find out the R value for your area (ie for my father in-law it is R-44, for me here in IL, it is only R-29, but reality I could go with R-33), then figure, do you want Blown insulation, or Batts? If you do not know, you may be better off having an insulation contractor look at what is the attic setup and give you a quote.


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## Danielg

gregzoll said:


> The right way, is to find out the R value for your area (ie for my father in-law it is R-44, for me here in IL, it is only R-29, but reality I could go with R-33), then figure, do you want Blown insulation, or Batts? If you do not know, you may be better off having an insulation contractor look at what is the attic setup and give you a quote.



Now we've got a start. I have no problem doing this myself.

R-49 is the recommended for my attic. If you'll read above, the attic is not my question. I'm putting blown in insulation up there over the already existant blown insulation that is about R-20 or R-25 now after it's been settling for 30 years.

My question is that storage space in front of the rooms and the channels that go from that storage space to the attic proper.


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## gregzoll

The channels have to be installed to allow airflow across the sheathing, but will not work if there is problems installing them. The storage areas have to be insulasated if the adjoin a room that is in use. Otherwise, insulate the whole attic.

Repost the pictures in better quality, or even post a drawing of what areas that are in question. The problem with the pictures that you posted, are that they appear to be from a camera phone, and look like a 2 year old took them.


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## Danielg

gregzoll said:


> The channels have to be installed to allow airflow across the sheathing, but will not work if there is problems installing them. The storage areas have to be insulasated if the adjoin a room that is in use. Otherwise, insulate the whole attic.
> 
> Repost the pictures in better quality, or even post a drawing of what areas that are in question. The problem with the pictures that you posted, are that they appear to be from a camera phone, and look like a 2 year old took them.



So, you have a camera phone that takes 2800X2500, I'm impressed.
Here are a handful of pics, the first 5 are from the side I haven't done anything with yet, the rest are from the side I did already.
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/AtticPics/

Here's the outside of the house with the parts labeled as I stated in the first post.
http://www.ankylosaur.com/images/housetopfloor.jpg


However, I'm coming to the conclusion that I've done right by the house and also that there is little actual help on this board.

Thank you for your time anyway.
DanH


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## gregzoll

From the picture with the snow on the roof, you can definitely tell that you are under-insulated in the attic space. I would personally get a insulation contactor to come out and spec out what needs to be done, then also maybe have a infra-red camera used to find other trouble spots.
Actually, I have a handheld digital camera that takes pictures. Camera phones are cheap, and look like a Fisher Price camera took them.


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## SamQuentin

I really don't know if I'll be any help, but I've been seriously investigating a similar situation to yours. My Cape Cod style home is a bit different, but fundamentally, we're struggling with the same thing. My house was built in the 50's so most of the insulation is the old foil air bats. I have 4 hat vents, 2 high and 2 low. So my R value is terrible and my air flow is terrible. So I started asking around for some information. I am 2 years into the remodeling business, and am working as a project manager for an excellent company in Central Ohio, so I have a pretty good group of people to pool information from. Some of the answers I got were initially pretty grim. First things first. We are living in an attic space, no way around it. Most houses have that nice, convenient cushion of air that with a bit of ventilation will keep flowing naturally and keep your space at a much more comfortable level. Cape cods don't have that option without some effort. Here is what I am planning on doing when I have the money for it, and it's not 90 degrees outside. I am going to try and take a foam board and shove it up the rafter abscesses on the incline of my roof so they are pushed against my drywall. Granted, I can't get the R-value out of a full bat, but I think air movement in this case trumps that. I am going to try and clear out a few channels so the roof triangle at the peak of the house can pull air from the lower sections and put in an electric fan. They make fans that have a thermostat and will automatically turn on. All you would have to do is run an electric line to that fan and hope it helps. I really don't know if any of this information will be beneficial, but I can honestly say, I feel your pain when it comes to living in a hot house. Good Luck.


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## warnerww

Danielg said:


> However, I'm coming to the conclusion that I've done right by the house and also that there is little actual help on this board.
> 
> Thank you for your time anyway.
> DanH


 Honey I say honey. You catch more bees with honey Danielg. Be patient most of us on this sight are not professionals. I live in the country where we do pretty simple homes (put a vent on each gable and blow in insulation). Someone here may be able to help you (unfortunately I can't). However if you proceed to hack people off by insulting comments people may not choose to help. I enjoy helping when I can so please do not tell me their is no help at this sight. I have learned a lot here. Check out the pressure treated lumber discussion. That one post is going to save me a lot of problems in the future. :thumbup:


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## SamQuentin

*Success*

Not sure if you read my earlier post. I went ahead and spent about an hour installing an electrical fan. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=142670-228-RV28BR
Mine was a bit smaller, 1150 cfm. Only cost 54.00, and I can tell you it made almost an immediate difference. It is in the 90's here in Ohio, and with no insulation in my attic (I found that out yesterday), I am comfortable upstairs. Hope this helps.


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## guardian2z

*never ay real help in these forums*

it never ceases to amaze me how not one person ever posts any actually usefull information in thes diy forums this topic it going on 3 years old and still 0 actual information in it yet people post nonsense and snipe at the person who is just looking for some honest help .

the truth is this no one knows the perfect way to insulate a cape if they did it wouldnt change every 2 years and there would not be thousands of cape cod homes with failing roofs because even the supposed pros that built them either didnt know how or were not given a budget to do it correctly 

but in a perfect world if you had no sheet rock instaled here is the most current information i personally can find 

1. the rafter channels need to have air flow but if you leave them empty your going to pay a fortune for heat so you need a foam insert to allow airflow between the roof decking and the batt insulation , foil faced on the top would be nice at this would add to keeping heat out of the space in the summer, then a normal ammount of batt insulation based on the remaining space if the rafters are 2X8 instead of the normal 2X 6 you can use a better r value.

some say btween the face of the rafter and the sheetrock another layer of foil based vapor barrier (but you need to be aware that when you make a home too tight , you will need to bring in more fresh air, new fangled heat exchangers are great if you have 1200.00 bucks to spend on one to add to your home )

the attic spacew itself across the ceiling joists normal bat insulation again with a vapor barrier below and thermal barrier above .
across the rafters them selfin the flat part of the attic probably nothing but if you have the money another thermal barrior as long as it does not stop airflow from the eaves to the ridge vent (every rafter chanel need to be vented so air flows from the eve to the rifge vent a vent every 4 or 6 feet is not the correct way to do it )

usually now you see a strip vent along the bottem of the entire eve.

finally the crawl space either fron or rear or both depending on your design

again you still need airflow up the rafter channel all the way from the eve to to ridge vent even thougfh the inside of the crawl space is not sheetrocked . so you need insulate the floor in here at least back severla feet into the first floor ceiling. and if your doing very zonal heat then insulate it all , it helps with noise too . the wall of the crawl space needs insulation and again a thermal barrier and vapeo barrier between the sheetrock and the studs (mold cannot grow where ther is no organic material so seperating the sheetrock and the wqood with an inorganic material can prevent mold intrusion if you do get some moisure in the walls .(but again your making the house very tight and risking stale air so you need to adding sufficient fresh air to the home 

the rafters in the crawl space portion probably dont need batt insulation but you do need end vents of some sort to change the air in there and a thermal barrier on the bottom of the rafters from the floor to whrhere they meet the knee wall will give you the air pockret you need and also a means to tie the envelop of the knee wall to the insualtion of the sheetrocked portion of these rafter where thery are actually the ceiling of the rooms on the second floor. so literally wrapping the insulation from the rafter chase around the top of the nee wall to the floor is most likely advisable so you dont have a corner with about 0 r value,


lastly this is all just information i have been able to scrap toghether on the web . from about 30 different sites and not one site i can find has a simple isometric diagram showing the reccomended techniques for this or any other typical home insulation project .


but you do get 900 links to unscrupulous contractors that want to do it wrong or charge you double what it is actually worth.

case in point i got 3 quotes to do the roof on my cape all the quotes i asked them to break out material and labor . yet they refuse to do it why is that becasue they dont want you to know the material for the job is 1500 bucks and they want 8500.00 for a 100 hr job.= 10k for a job worth more like 6 -7 k


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## nathan_h

Interesting topic. Has anyone 'here' actually done one of these projects on a cape cod? Either DIY or contracted it out?

Love to hear from experience and see some photos.

Between closet-like space and dormer windows, our knee wall attic space is pretty chopped up, which makes even the solutions described above more complicated.....


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## bubbler

nathan_h said:


> Interesting topic. Has anyone 'here' actually done one of these projects on a cape cod? Either DIY or contracted it out?
> 
> Love to hear from experience and see some photos.
> 
> Between closet-like space and dormer windows, our knee wall attic space is pretty chopped up, which makes even the solutions described above more complicated.....



From what I've gathered the current mentality for best practice is as follows according to JLC (Journal of Light Construction)

- Attic spaces behind knee walls should be treated as unconditioned

- Air chutes are needed in rafter bays from soffit to ridge wherever the rafter bay will be blocked by insulation

- R38+ is recommended for flat surfaces in my area (New England)
- R15+ is recommended for vertical surfaces
- R21+ for angled surfaces

In my case I have a 1950 built Cape, has no bedroom dormers, but it does have a gabled entryway off the front. The best way to describe this is to say that I have an uninterrupted knee-wall that runs the length of the front and back walls of my house. 

If you were to stick your head into the access door for my front knee wall you'd see the typical rafters and underside of the roof sheathing... for the 10' where the entryway gable exists the rafters and sheathing stop, leading into the "mini attic" above the entryway area. There is a gable vent above my front door letting air int that mini-attic.

The back attic area is uneventful, except the ceiling above the stairs between my first floor and second floor form a makeshift chute/ladder that someone could shimmy up to get into the very peak attic area.

As near as I can tell the house was originally built with just a first floor, the second floor was just an attic, so they ran foil faced insulation along the entire rafter channels from soffit to ridge, and also along the joists for the first floor ceiling. This insulation is maybe R5 at best, it is about as thick as a bubble mailing envelop and in my current attic space is is starting to fall down in several spots. They then build the knee walls and ceiling to convert the attic into the two bedrooms that it is today. There is zero insulation on the knee walls, so in effect my attic spaces are current conditioned since there is no separation between the bedroom and the attic except for cheap 1950's paneling attached to the 2x3 knee walls.

Here's a labeled diagram:










My plan is basically 2 phases...


Phase 1 is to add a "hat" to the house which will convert my attic spaces into unconditioned space
- Install rafter air chutes in the rafters bays where the knee wall starts to up into the attic space above the second floor (and from soffit up to clear the new insulation added... note currently I do not have any soffit vents will have to be cut in later when roof is replaced at some point)
- Use foam board or blown in insulation to pack those rafter bays, it's 2x8, but with air chute probably R15-R18 is the best approx. rating I'll get
- Blow R38+ into the attic space above the second floor
- Fir out the 2x3 knee walls with 1x8's to add depth, install unfaced R21+ batts, calk/tuck-tape around electric boxes to help seal out air
- Pull up boards in the attic spaces behind knee walls
- Add air blocks under the knee walls in all the joists bays between first and second floors ... this blocks the air in the unconditioned attic space from infiltrating the joist space between the conditioned first and second floor spaces
- Add unfaced batts (R21) to 1st/2nd floor joist bays behind the knee walls
- Put the boards back on the floor behind knee walls, blow another R20+ on top for a total of R40+

This completes my Phase 1 which would be something I hope to do in very late fall 2011 after the summer is over...

Phase 1:











Phase 2 will be to blow insulation into all the exterior walls and probably also help to seal up the "crawl space" under the entryway. That crawl space is more like a really, really low height basement... it's the same block walls, there is no venting to outside, and it is completely open to the rest of the basement through a 3' tall x 2' wide opening... the floor of the crawl space appears to be some sort of a sloppily done concrete, only a 1/2" or an inch thick and wavy which has cracked/failed due to an very bad roof leak the former owners had. My plan here is to bust up what's there then level it all out the floor with either some pea gravel or a couple inches of cement, then depending on what I decided, I would cover the floor/walls with plastic sheathing to minimize moisture coming up from floor/walls because I'm just assuming they were not made up as well as the rest of the foundation based on what I have seen so far. It's very damp/drafty from there, so I think spray foam insulation would be best in there, as well as ultimately in the walls there (as opposed to simple blown in).

I probably would do Phase 2 as part of re-siding the house, so that all existing siding can be stripped, blow insulation into the walls, house wrap, foam board or whatever, then either vinyl or hardi-plank siding (something low maintenance... right now I have 20 year old vinyl, it's looking rough, needs to be re-done but clearly has survived better then wood/paint ever would have)

Phase 2:











Phase 3 is sort of a "maybe" thing... right now it is easy to hear the sump pump, boiler, washer, etc in the basement... it would be nice to put some R21 into the 2x10 joists between first floor and basement to help insulate against air/heat but mostly sound (so maybe be a rock wool or something).

Phase 3:











Completed, all the various things combined:










I'm doing it phases for a couple of reasons... mostly it's cost, I think Phase #1 is do-able by me and gives me the most bang for buck.

Phase #2 is probably not do-able by me, and would be part of re-siding which is mucho denero

Phase #3 really shouldn't be it's own phase, but since I made a diagram I might as well post it 

I'm choosing unfaced batts because I live in a climate that is cold in winter and humid in summer... so in the winter the moisture is inside and in the summer the moisture is outside, because there will still probably be air leaks galore, I don't want to create a situation where moisture will pool or be trapped on the paper face of some insulation. This may be a bad choice, and I'll do more "research" before hand, but I'm basing the decision on my common sense and the fact that adding insulation between joist bays will never really achieve an air seal, but yet that face paper will absolutely hold moisture like a bowl where it dips and cups.

I welcome all feedback, and hope maybe it can give other people w/ Cape style houses something to think about.

My heating bills over this past winter for my ~80% efficient oil boiler for a VACANT house with brand new windows, heat at 55-60*, was over $100/wk on average. Heat must have been leaking out of the house like a sieve and I know for certain that the way the attic is setup allows a huge amount of air movement (right now if you open the knee wall access hatch (which is just a cut piece of 1/4" paneling) you are sticking your head into the attic space... if you look forward about 12' you see the gable vent over my front door... i.e. an open window to the outside! So I really must treat the attic spaces as unconditioned, which means sealing my ceiling, joist bays between first and second floors, and knee walls up.

I also need to replace my front and rear exterior doors because currently you can see light coming in all around them... so they are basically worthless as stopping drafts as-is. Fortunately we're approaching the summer, since we just have a single air conditioner to be run in the bedroom any drafts will probably be welcome up until about Sept/Oct! :laughing:


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## Gary in WA

Looks like you have the bulk of it figured out. A few points I would do: foam board and canned foam air seal the rim joists first; foam the wiring/plumbing holes in top plate to attic; ventilate the side attics and top only; unvented sloped ceiling 2x6’s with rigid foam board R-20 (4”, add furring of ½” X 1-1/2” strips – rafter thermal breaks- of R-5 rigid) and air seal the drywall (ADA); isolate that ceiling from other attics above and below per fire Code; house wrap (Tyvek) the attic side of knee wall to prevent wind-washing; add baffles at top plate soffit that prevent wind-washing; vent both ends of upper and lower attics at gables; leave to floor boards off behind knee walls; use cellulose instead of fiberglass; insulate/weather-strip attic access doors; most of your post and mine have been covered before--- http://www.diychatroom.com/search.php?searchid=2017564

http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/biggest-loser-fiberglass-insulation-90438/

Any of my points above need clarifying, just ask,
Thanks for summarizing it all!

Gary


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## SteveLuoma

*Height of ventilation channels above attic floor insulation?*



gregzoll said:


> The channels have to be installed to allow airflow across the sheathing, but will not work if there is problems installing them. The storage areas have to be insulasated if the adjoin a room that is in use.


I have a similar ongoing project, with some questions. I have a storage space under a sloped roof, adjacent to a bedroom. The BR wall meets the roof and forms the end of the attic floor. I'm using radiant barrier in the storage area rafter bays, and want to install plastic ventilation channels at the wall/roof joint that will extend up into the attic. I'll be putting a layer of R-30 unfaced fiberglass over existing (settled) blown-in in the attic.

My questions:
1) How high up above the final attic floor insulation layer does the ventilation channel need to extend?

2) What's the best way to install the ventilation channels around the irregular spacing of rafters and attic floor joists (24" o.c. vs 16" joists) and join the radiant barrier to them?

I was thinking of cutting the plastic channels in 2 sections and notching the top part around the joists from the attic side. Then I can mate the bottom from below with aluminum tape. I would then tape the radiant barrier to the bottom of the plastic channel. Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
SteveL


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## SteveLuoma

*Height of ventilation channels above attic floor insulation?*

[sorry for accidental duplicate post]


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## Gary in WA

1. 12" vertically
2. Why join them? let the attic air leave through the gap.

Gary


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## MyEvilBanana

bubbler.... 
Your plan looks like what I plan on trying with mine this year. No place for sofit vent either, facia's flush with the walls so when I get to that part it'll be fun I'm sure.
For the chutes I was looking at using foil backed foam board ( I need to check into the R value). I was told there is a glue you use to attach the foam to surfaces so it sounds like you better get it right the first time. The concern I have with the foil is moisture collecting and then running down into the knee walls if there isn't enough air flow. Currently I have 3 gabble vents. One on each side of my little attic and one on my additions attic (yes my attic proble looks really close to yours). 

I had a question about sealing my attic up. I have a dresser that was built into a knee wall. There is enough room to get in behind it to insulate but here's my question and problems. 
1) the back of the knee wall dresser is plywood... Can it be decently sealed affordibly?
2) the flooring here goes under the knee wall to about 16" to the outside wall... do I insulate on top of the flooring or do I need to take it up and seal off the joist bays like I will be in the other knee walls I have?

I've been thinking about putting an attic fan in the additions' gabble vent but with out any good air intakes should I be worried about pulling air out of the conditioned living area though any leaks I might have and causing problems?
Lot of work to still be done though. Just finished pulling all the old insulation out of the rafter chutes and out of where my facia vents should be (nice huh... you should see the ice dams I was getting). In my addition they insulated the rafters and covered with plywood for a finished looking attic and semi seperating it from the other attic spaces and then insulated the attic floor joists as well. I've removed enough so far that the houses attic spaces is already working better together but I still plan on pulling all the insulation and plywood off the rafters in the addition and adding more insulation to the floors R-5 or whatever it was when they put it in but not till I pull the flooring up to flip alot of the current insulation over because it was installed (from the few boards I've pulled up) vapor bearier wrong side up (even though I can clearly read the print on the old insulation as to how it should be installed). Nothing better then fixing someone elses mistakes...lol


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## bubbler

MyEvilBanana said:


> bubbler....
> For the chutes I was looking at using foil backed foam board ( I need to check into the R value). I was told there is a glue you use to attach the foam to surfaces so it sounds like you better get it right the first time. The concern I have with the foil is moisture collecting and then running down into the knee walls if there isn't enough air flow.


Well, the foil is probably a moisture barrier right? So in theory having that against the backside of your finished ceiling is proper, as for moisture, I suppose you could get condensation if your conditioned space is much colder than the humid attic, so this is where air flow becomes very important. I'll let someone more knowledgeable address this... 

I'm re-evaluating now, I might just use a blown-in insulation for the slanted portions of the roof. The trouble I have is that I need payback to be under 5 years or so before I would bother because ultimately I'd really like to add a dormer for a full bath upstairs. I'm trying to milk my 19 year old roof, and get things as reasonable as possible up there w/o spending too much in case it all ends up apart.




MyEvilBanana said:


> Currently I have 3 gabble vents. One on each side of my little attic and one on my additions attic (yes my attic proble looks really close to yours).


The only gable vent I have is at the front of my house where I have a very tiny gable from the 10x4 mud room. There may have originally been gables at the peak of my main roof, possibly covered over when they vinyl sided the house.



MyEvilBanana said:


> I had a question about sealing my attic up. I have a dresser that was built into a knee wall. There is enough room to get in behind it to insulate but here's my question and problems.
> 1) the back of the knee wall dresser is plywood... Can it be decently sealed affordibly?
> 2) the flooring here goes under the knee wall to about 16" to the outside wall... do I insulate on top of the flooring or do I need to take it up and seal off the joist bays like I will be in the other knee walls I have?


So it sounds like the dresser is all closed in by plywood? If so, I'd like you should be able to wrap the dresser in a vapor barrier, seal, and insulate it? I don't think that would be too bad? 

People here have said to take up the flooring... my inclination is to pull up the floors, seal the joist bays under the knee walls, fill the joist bays w/ unfaced batts, put the floor back, then roll add'l unfaced batts to equal the R value I want.

I would also consider doing blow in for the joist bays, but it doesn't seem like it would be too horrible to just do the batts, and in my opinion that makes it more flexible (easier) if I needed to access that space for some reason.




MyEvilBanana said:


> I've been thinking about putting an attic fan in the additions' gabble vent but with out any good air intakes should I be worried about pulling air out of the conditioned living area though any leaks I might have and causing problems?


Well, the idea is to move fresh air into the attic at the low points, and exhaust the stale air at the peak to keep things moving and about equal to the outside air in as much of the attic as possible. You say there are no good intakes, well either your gable fan will be very ineffective (spinning, but not moving much air) or you will suck air from inside the house into the attic... either way it doesn't seem like a good idea w/o some other changes.



MyEvilBanana said:


> Lot of work to still be done though. Just finished pulling all the old insulation out of the rafter chutes and out of where my facia vents should be (nice huh... you should see the ice dams I was getting).


Tell me about it (the ice dams) ... mine were 6-8" tall ... before next winter I'm seriously considering heat cable, I ended up with water streaming into the kitchen walls!! Fortunately this happened to be when I had the plaster off for our kitchen re-model, if it happens next year it will be an absolute disaster! I'd like to get a new roof this summer, but I'm up to 2 layers of shingles already so that means it's a full strip and re-shingle job for me which will probably be close to $8-10K. I'd really like to see how things shape up over the next year or two because we might be able to pull the trigger on a large dormer for the bathroom, don't want to "waste" money put into a roof if we're just going to end up cutting a hole in it.



MyEvilBanana said:


> In my addition they insulated the rafters and covered with plywood for a finished looking attic and semi seperating it from the other attic spaces and then insulated the attic floor joists as well. I've removed enough so far that the houses attic spaces is already working better together but I still plan on pulling all the insulation and plywood off the rafters in the addition and adding more insulation to the floors R-5 or whatever it was when they put it in but not till I pull the flooring up to flip alot of the current insulation over because it was installed (from the few boards I've pulled up) vapor bearier wrong side up (even though I can clearly read the print on the old insulation as to how it should be installed). Nothing better then fixing someone elses mistakes...lol


I've actually considered just unfinishing the 2nd floor if we end up building a dormer... the walls are all 2x3 framed and covered in 50's paneling, the ceiling is in good shape so I'd hate to lose that, but at the same time I don't want to let that stop me. We had a pro come in to blueboard and plaster our bathroom, one kitchen wall, and skim coat the ceiling between two walls to blend where we removed a wall. The entire job was $1500, I could imagine spending maybe $4000 or so for him to drywall my entire 2nd floor if I were to re-do it, that would suddenly make it much easier to insulate, add some proper venting, etc...


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## dwolearystl

*attic fan*

My house is so much like Bubbler's - I have copied and pasted his info for future reference and I thank him. A little more info on the house - it's a 1940 Cape Cod in the St. Louis suburbs where the summers are very hot and humid. The central air can't make it up there through the vents, and the attic was most likely finished solely by the homeowner years ago. I use a window a/c at one end, which means the other end is always warm...BUT the entire upstairs is more than a little warm on our hot days. During the day the walls/slopes/ceiling are really warm to the touch and it's unbearable up there. By 10 p.m. it's still too warm (for me) to sleep or be up there - by 11, it's becoming doable. I will install a c/a unit in the future, but am taking these steps first. 

I also know I need to upgrade insulation but all that I have read tells me I should provide an attic fan first. In getting a new roof a few years ago, I did include a ridge vent.

First do you agree with the attic fan installation, and if so, secondly, what do you think of a solar panel attic fan? Maybe here I should tell you that I am a 39 and holding female who does quite a bit cosmetically, but not something like installing my own fan. 

I am impressed with the solar panel attic fans, but would like an independent opinion of solar or otherwise, without the opinion leading to an advertisement. The solar panel Attic Breeze, installed by a green company, will cost close to $1,000 - yikes - but I am willing if it is worth it. I assume that a good electric one will cost similar by the time I pay for wiring and installation too. 

Please offer any info you can, and I thank you!


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## jarylu

Wow Guardian - awesome response. TY. Its the most intelligent I've heard yet. I was taking it a step further with a twist. I lost insulation in front of the house so I put reflective insulation at the roof board with rigid air vent next and R21 batts. this side gets full sun and overheats. I'm hoping it keeps the heat out. 2) on rear of the house, I've got R21 over rigid air vents BUT I get ice dams. So, I'm hoping its gutter placement and I'm adding a snow slide to that part of the roof to combat that. Overall, house leaks air like crazy - NO HOLES are plugged so that's an issue BUT, knee walls and ceiling to the two bedrooms are only 1/4 inch "sheetrock" from 1945. Walls have faced R19 on them. I want to wrap them with the reflective insulation as well as the gable wall and roof area in back storage space. I would do this by adding firring strips so theres a 1 in gap between insulation and reflective product. Also, from knee wall to peak is blown in cellulose (1997) which I assume has settled giving air space to ridge vent. *(or at least I'm praying that's the case). Insulation was blown in the floors from soffit to knee wall 1997, too. Question: how does that plan sound to you? Should I add some vents to the storage area? Should I attempt to compress the cellulose in the peak to insure air flow or provide more? Is the reflective stuff being used efficiently this way? Anything else I should consider?


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