# Cannot figure how carport leaks!!!!!!!



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You sure it's not condensation??


----------



## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Did you test it with hose?


----------



## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

I wish I has a clue. I built a open back porch roof the same way, but only 12 ft. wide, on a home we sold in 2015. I used the 26 ga. metal green V-groove roofing panels on 2x 6 rafters with 1x6 cross boards to nail it to. 

I flashed and caulked and caulked. Still when it rained, a slow drip.. drip, was coming underneath from where the rafter band was bolted to the rafters I exposed.

I even called a pro roofer and he came while I was at work one day to look at it. He would not even return my call, just so I could see if he knew how to fix it. We later sold the home and I put on the sellers disclosure, that the porch leaked a bit. 

The buyer accepted it luckily, as it was. In retrospect, I believe when these type add on V-groove tin roofs that are fastened right on the facia board under the shingles drip edge, it needs a custom bent piece of corrugated flashing to sit tightly down on each roof panels "V'", and then it turn and go up under the shingles about a foot. I dunno. Good Luck OP... And JMO


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Warm moist air will always drift the top and the water cooling the metal on top, you can get condensation. If this was a finished room we would want venting there for the same reason.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> You sure it's not condensation??


No, it's some pretty good drips.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

Guap0_ said:


> Did you test it with hose?


As far as testing a small section at a time....no....I haven't done that. As long as it doesn't take a ton of water to get the drips to start, I'll try that when weather changes. Raining all weekend.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> I wish I has a clue. I built a open back porch roof the same way, but only 12 ft. wide, on a home we sold in 2015. I used the 26 ga. metal green V-groove roofing panels on 2x 6 rafters with 1x6 cross boards to nail it to.
> 
> I flashed and caulked and caulked. Still when it rained, a slow drip.. drip, was coming underneath from where the rafter band was bolted to the rafters I exposed.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. I didn't do it like you mentioned. The metal panels are about 1 1/2" below the drip edge shingle edge. I stuffed those foam strips under the edge, then layers of roofing cement, then the white coating stuff. It's crazy huh!


----------



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

The key is proper flashing. You will need to run flashing bent to go under your shingles, make the drop to the top of the corrugations and extend OVER the corrugations by at least 8" to prevent capillary action from taking the water back uphill. Sealing it with the spray and stuffing foam is not the answer.


----------



## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

It's leaking because you didn't flash the metal roof. There is not much overlapping flashing where the metal and shingles meet. I would depend less on caulk. It will not last in that situation. I would reflash. Cover about 12" of the metal roof with painted aluminum. OSI quad beads 1" and 3" under the joint. Caulk is for wind driven rain and not to make that joint water proof. Before caulk, try to beat the sheet gently to mold over the metal roofing. Use 24" wide sheet. Then ice shield over the metal sheet overlap of 6". You will have to remove the shingles. Full sheet ice shield. Then metal sheet over the ice shield for looks and shingle over. Keep the shingles away from the metal roofing at least 12". More is better to keep the middle flashing without all the holes.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

chandler48 said:


> The key is proper flashing. You will need to run flashing bent to go under your shingles, make the drop to the top of the corrugations and extend OVER the corrugations by at least 8" to prevent capillary action from taking the water back uphill. Sealing it with the spray and stuffing foam is not the answer.


Thanks! I understand. I've sealed that over 10x and believe me, it is thick and no cracks, shown on the pic. I swear....water is somehow sneaking under the shingles and is running underneath the shingles. I dunno. 
I never said I used spray on anything.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

carpdad said:


> It's leaking because you didn't flash the metal roof. There is not much overlapping flashing where the metal and shingles meet. I would depend less on caulk. It will not last in that situation. I would reflash. Cover about 12" of the metal roof with painted aluminum. OSI quad beads 1" and 3" under the joint. Caulk is for wind driven rain and not to make that joint water proof. Before caulk, try to beat the sheet gently to mold over the metal roofing. Use 24" wide sheet. Then ice shield over the metal sheet overlap of 6". You will have to remove the shingles. Full sheet ice shield. Then metal sheet over the ice shield for looks and shingle over. Keep the shingles away from the metal roofing at least 12". More is better to keep the middle flashing without all the holes.


Thanks for the reply! There is a couple coats of painted aluminum sealant under all that. Can't do the flashing due to bad leg, and yes...it's the proper way to go, but....there are no cracks or openings in the present sealant coating.:vs_mad:


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

I think several nailed it on the head. Lack of a long enough continuous wide flashing under the shingles. Especially if they tried to do the flashing after the roof was shingled.

Add to that low slope roof.

Add to that 3 tab shingles. 

Possibility starter wasn't done right or that the flashing is over the starter. No ice and water shield (underlayment for shingles) adhered over the top of the flashing.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> I think several nailed it on the head. Lack of a long enough continuous wide flashing under the shingles. Especially if they tried to do the flashing after the roof was shingled.
> 
> Add to that low slope roof.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks!!!!! I think you mean starter is the roofing paper?? Ok...now....here's something I haven't mentioned. I pulled up the shingles in two different spots just far enough to find the top end of the shingles and I saw WOOD! No paper. Later I did the same thing on 3 spots far from where the leak area is and there was paper underneath. Next day I went back trying to find the spots that I saw paper and I'll be damned if I could find exactly where those spots were and didn't want to keep bending up shingles. I should of marked them, but they were above the area where the two roofs join. And as you said...the starter probably wasn't over the drip edge. That sounds like that is the problem, but how in hell can the water slip under the 3 tab shingles??? I will admit that the shingles are easy to lift up...hardly stuck to each other any more. 
It's a FEMA mobile home, bought it brand new in Florida after the hurricanes in 2007. Was built in 04.:
It's been leaking over a year, and luckily no stains inside on ceilings. 
I'm on a roll now!vs_worry:


----------



## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Whatever sealant you used, you can see it failed. Also I don't know how the metal roofing was installed. ONLY way it will work is redo the flashing and remove the shingles away from the flashing. More overlap in the flashing is good.
Winter's almost over. As long as water isn't damaging your interior, you can let it leak and wait for warmer weather to work. Nothing except things made by paper will rot. Mold can start but if you start as soon as it is generally warmer, you should be ok.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

carpdad said:


> Whatever sealant you used, you can see it failed. Also I don't know how the metal roofing was installed. ONLY way it will work is redo the flashing and remove the shingles away from the flashing. More overlap in the flashing is good.
> Winter's almost over. As long as water isn't damaging your interior, you can let it leak and wait for warmer weather to work. Nothing except things made by paper will rot. Mold can start but if you start as soon as it is generally warmer, you should be ok.


What do you mean...redo the flashing? You mean the drip edge that's on there now, or add a 12" alum flashing under the end of the shingles??? And what do you mean remove the shingles away from the flashing??? I'm lost on this one.


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Well, felt is one thing. If you follow the shingle instructions to a T, low slope roofs (2:12 to anything less than 4:12) need double coverage underlayment (felt) which basically means you overlap every row of felt 19".

The starter is the shingle that should be under the tabs of your first row. (And is seen when you look between the tabs) Some cut a 7" wide starter, some flip a shingle upside down. The butt joints of the starter course must be staggered 6" from your first 3 tab course so that water doesn't leak in. On a low slope roof with 3 tabs water can easily get under the starter because at the top of each tab "cutout" it is only 2" to the top edge of a 7" starter. On a 2:12 roof that would mean that a 5/16" thick piece of debris blocking the tab notch for draining could cause water that gets in to back up over the top of the starter shingle and leak.

The goop painted on the initial row of 3 tabs would backfire if water gets in from above and can't get out. In effect it would be like that 5/16" debris or dam that is causing water to back up under the shingles.

You need to bite the bullet and tear off the first 3 feet of shingles.


----------



## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Google, how to change from low slope to shingle roof. Where slope changes, you want something like a roll roofing with minimum joints. Even those joints have to be waterproof, that is, sealed so there is zero water coming in. Zero water is what you want for low slope. Click on images.
Your roof is more involved because the metal roof has raised connections that are harder to flash. You can make the flashing but aluminum will be not easy to beat into the shape. Lead will be a lot easier but not easy to buy or in widths that you need. I may try eternabond tape over the raised parts. Or where you bought the metal roofing, ask if they have premade flashing. You have some slope but the problem is wind blown rain that can backtrack under the flashing. That is why I'm saying 12" overlap there and couple beads of caulk to block the back tracking water. 12" maybe overdoing it but it is excellent insurance even if caulking fails.
You didn't remove enough shingles and just sealed the shape of the shingles. I think this is where seals failed (guaranteed sooner or later) as well as any tar paper or drain plane you should have under the roofing.
Shingles leave a lot of nail holes. So shingles should be minimum 12" away from the slope change so that there is less chance of wind blown or ice dams leaks. Your roll roofing covers the slope changes and this roll roofing should come up full width after the angle change. Strike a line 12" above the angle change and start your ice shield there. Shingles start over the ice shield. I guess you don't need the starter strip and use dabs of osi quad to hold the front edge down. Just dabs, not a line of the caulk because you want to maintain the drainage plane.
If you don't prepare against wind blown rain, you may have interior damages again.
I think it is worth the time to redo that part of the roof. It is also low slope enough to ice shield the whole section. If those are heating chimney pipes, you want to keep the shingles away min couple of inches.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> Well, felt is one thing. If you follow the shingle instructions to a T, low slope roofs (2:12 to anything less than 4:12) need double coverage underlayment (felt) which basically means you overlap every row of felt 19".
> 
> The starter is the shingle that should be under the tabs of your first row. (And is seen when you look between the tabs) Some cut a 7" wide starter, some flip a shingle upside down. The butt joints of the starter course must be staggered 6" from your first 3 tab course so that water doesn't leak in. On a low slope roof with 3 tabs water can easily get under the starter because at the top of each tab "cutout" it is only 2" to the top edge of a 7" starter. On a 2:12 roof that would mean that a 5/16" thick piece of debris blocking the tab notch for draining could cause water that gets in to back up over the top of the starter shingle and leak.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate you taking the time typing all that info!!!!! I keep reading it over and over trying to get a picture in my head. So from me plastering all that goop to seal in the gap between the metal panels and where the shingles overhang on top of the drip edge closed the gap for water drainage??? So that means...that water is seeping under the tabs(which it shouldn't right?) and..or..seeping between the shingles and felt, then running down and getting blocked? Well that makes sense but why would the water seep under the tabs unless they're all rotted and broken...which mine aren't? So 3 tab shingles are crap? 
A few days ago I caulked a bead of roof repair caulking in the gaps in between each tab on bottom 2 rows of shingles, but it's raining all weekend and still have leaks. 
Your info makes sense! Don't think I can tackle replacing 3 rows of shingles with a bad back and leg and can't afford to pay some one. Dazed and confused. Thanks!


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

carpdad said:


> Google, how to change from low slope to shingle roof. Where slope changes, you want something like a roll roofing with minimum joints. Even those joints have to be waterproof, that is, sealed so there is zero water coming in. Zero water is what you want for low slope. Click on images.
> Your roof is more involved because the metal roof has raised connections that are harder to flash. You can make the flashing but aluminum will be not easy to beat into the shape. Lead will be a lot easier but not easy to buy or in widths that you need. I may try eternabond tape over the raised parts. Or where you bought the metal roofing, ask if they have premade flashing. You have some slope but the problem is wind blown rain that can backtrack under the flashing. That is why I'm saying 12" overlap there and couple beads of caulk to block the back tracking water. 12" maybe overdoing it but it is excellent insurance even if caulking fails.
> You didn't remove enough shingles and just sealed the shape of the shingles. I think this is where seals failed (guaranteed sooner or later) as well as any tar paper or drain plane you should have under the roofing.
> Shingles leave a lot of nail holes. So shingles should be minimum 12" away from the slope change so that there is less chance of wind blown or ice dams leaks. Your roll roofing covers the slope changes and this roll roofing should come up full width after the angle change. Strike a line 12" above the angle change and start your ice shield there. Shingles start over the ice shield. I guess you don't need the starter strip and use dabs of osi quad to hold the front edge down. Just dabs, not a line of the caulk because you want to maintain the drainage plane.
> ...


I sure appreciate your time and typing!! At this point I'm pretty sure water is seeping under the shingle tabs and running underneath between the felt paper and getting blocked at the end where I sealed it all in, making a dam like XSleeper mentioned, because I know that my seal job is not leaking. Why that damn water would seep under the 3 tab shingles is beyond me. Not confident physically...that I can do a major repair job like this.
But let me ask a REAL simple question>>>>>>
If i cut a slit between the lip of the overhanging shingles edge and the drip edge....could that possibly cure this problem, by eliminating the dam blockage where I have it all sealed in so water can run through???
Just asking...THANKS!!!!!

By the way.....That Henrys Elastomeric white roof sealant is some fantastic stuff!!! Especially when used with the roll of material put on first. That stuff never dries hard or cracks.


----------



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I totally understand your thinking you need to seal this up, but in reality, proper flashing will eliminate the need for all that sealant. If you remove 3 rows of shingles, as suggested by Brant, have flashing broken at the proper size and applied on the roof deck, felt over that, starter shingle and replace the rows removed. Then allow it to drape over the metal roofing by at least 8" to get water away from the junction, I think you can make it work. You can fasten the flashing down to the tops of the crimp with roofing screws.

Don't laugh at my rudimentary Paint drawing, please.


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

I am saying that in your attempt to seal up the gaps in the 3 tabs that you may have inadvertently created a dam in the tab. Lift up one of the tabs in the 2nd row, then look at the gap you sealed on the first row. Water easily gets under the tabs by capillary action. It could be that water is entering from the top of each gap... because the top edge of each gap is partially concealed by the tab above it. 

3 tabs are not crap but they are more prone to leakage on a low slope roof. A modern laminated shingle would be much better.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

chandler48 said:


> I totally understand your thinking you need to seal this up, but in reality, proper flashing will eliminate the need for all that sealant. If you remove 3 rows of shingles, as suggested by Brant, have flashing broken at the proper size and applied on the roof deck, felt over that, starter shingle and replace the rows removed. Then allow it to drape over the metal roofing by at least 8" to get water away from the junction, I think you can make it work. You can fasten the flashing down to the tops of the crimp with roofing screws.
> 
> Don't laugh at my rudimentary Paint drawing, please.


The drawing is perfect...but it needs a few pine needles like my roof:vs_laugh: Thanks for taking the time to do that. Nice job!
You guys have cleared this up for me with great info cause I've been half nuts with this. The scoop is....I only live on a social security check each month and that's it. Can't afford to pay someone and the bad back and leg don't wanna do it. I think that I will get a roll of alum flashing and slip it under the felt paper under first row of shingles. Then where the end of the flashing sits on top of the metal panels, order those pre-fab foam strips (if they make them) that fit the contours of the panels and caulk or tape them in to close it off. It will be awhile until I know good dry weather stays for awhile.
Thanks again!!!:vs_cool:


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> I am saying that in your attempt to seal up the gaps in the 3 tabs that you may have inadvertently created a dam in the tab. Lift up one of the tabs in the 2nd row, then look at the gap you sealed on the first row. Water easily gets under the tabs by capillary action. It could be that water is entering from the top of each gap... because the top edge of each gap is partially concealed by the tab above it.
> 
> 3 tabs are not crap but they are more prone to leakage on a low slope roof. A modern laminated shingle would be much better.


Yeah...gotcha! I only recently caulked the gaps between the tabs, but your dam right about a dam. I created a dam when I originally gooped the whole thing at the edge. Roof is 14 yrs old and always a lot of black granules in the gutter, plus tabs are easy to lift up and not sticking. 
Hey....thanks for your dam help!:vs_laugh:


----------



## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Can't recommend elastomeric roofing liquids. I used something like it about 10 yrs (maybe more) ago on a low slope/well drained roof. Thought my modified would last longer. 2 coats quickly developed mold and mostly peeled in a few years. 
Not sure about cutting around the drip edge. You shouldn't have a drip edge in the joint. Undercutting your flashing or roof will not help. You have to rebuild your drainage plane. This is important because this is not something you can easily redo in a year or few. Roof is harder to work on so you want to do it and forget at least for 20 years. If you physically can't, recommend covering the roof with a tarp and wait till you can. I think you don't have to remove existing flashing. You can flash/roof over what you got since everything looks smooth. But upper shingles have to be removed to maintain proper drainage plane.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

carpdad said:


> Can't recommend elastomeric roofing liquids. I used something like it about 10 yrs (maybe more) ago on a low slope/well drained roof. Thought my modified would last longer. 2 coats quickly developed mold and mostly peeled in a few years.
> Not sure about cutting around the drip edge. You shouldn't have a drip edge in the joint. Undercutting your flashing or roof will not help. You have to rebuild your drainage plane. This is important because this is not something you can easily redo in a year or few. Roof is harder to work on so you want to do it and forget at least for 20 years. If you physically can't, recommend covering the roof with a tarp and wait till you can. I think you don't have to remove existing flashing. You can flash/roof over what you got since everything looks smooth. But upper shingles have to be removed to maintain proper drainage plane.


Thanks for your time! I don't understand what you mean..."You shouldn't have a drip edge in the joint??" 
Also no matter what I do... I have to make a slice between the edge of the shingles and the drip edge where all the goop is to release the edge of the shingles. Then why couldn't I slip alum flashing under the felt paper over the drip edge to make an overhang? Then there won't be a dam anymore and will allow for drainage. And supposedly the water is seeping under the old tabs and running down along the top of the felt paper. I guess that's the main problem.


----------



## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Thinking about it makes sense but reality is overlapping proper flashing can't be retrofitted as such. Roll roofing over the transition, ice shield, metal flashing and pipe flashing can't be replaced by one metal sheet. If tarp doesn't appeal to you, use osi quad caulk to seal the shingle joints and smear on thick. The photo looks like you painted it on and it's too thin to stay sealed. That may get you over a season or until you feel fine. Seal may have failed esp because shingles move.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

carpdad said:


> Thinking about it makes sense but reality is overlapping proper flashing can't be retrofitted as such. Roll roofing over the transition, ice shield, metal flashing and pipe flashing can't be replaced by one metal sheet. If tarp doesn't appeal to you, use osi quad caulk to seal the shingle joints and smear on thick. The photo looks like you painted it on and it's too thin to stay sealed. That may get you over a season or until you feel fine. Seal may have failed esp because shingles move.


OK thanks!!! At this point, all I will do is cut the edge of the whole line of shingles from the goop...lift the first row of shingles up...slip a roll of alum flashing under the felt paper all along the length of the shingles. Also like you said, I will lay a bead of goop between each gap of the tabs on first few rows, and hope.....and hope....it works. lain:


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

If you are talking about putting a flashing under the first row of shingles, you will need to pull the nails out of the starter course and the first AND second row of shingles... because that flashing should go at least the full 12" under that first row. Putting a flashing under the first row of shingles will not do any good if it's not way wider than your starter course already is. 

That's why some of us are saying you should basically remove and replace the first 3 rows of shingles to do this right.

Don't rely on goop. You don't need it on the shingles at all if you flash it correctly.


----------



## skizman (Feb 9, 2018)

You see I'm completely confused again. The water leak is NOT coming from where I gooped the edge of shingles...drip edge to the metal panels. There are no cracks or openings. It's solid. So from what you guys have said that water is leaking under the tabs of the shingles above and leaking underneath along the felt paper, then getting stuck at the bottom where the goop created a dam. Earlier you said to use osi quad caulk to seal the shingle joints, and now you said I don't need to do it??? Why is it such a priority that I have to replace the bottom 3 rows of shingles? I don't know it it's leaking there or maybe higher, maybe 4th of 5th row. 
I give up.
Thanks for your time.


----------



## slotsru (7 mo ago)

There is such a solution as-sprayed waterproofing Daklar. If the volume is small, you can manually cover all seams or the entire roof with a one-component handle composition. If the entire roof is covered, then the roof's service life will increase. Unless you poke a hole for fun, there won't be any leaks at all. And, in the rain, hail will not pound on the roof. These materials are sometimes used for old slate roofs. When it is difficult to make out, and everything is running. Also, one of the options is to shift the sheets so that the overlap is not 1 but 2 waves + sealant (the main thing is not to overdo it - so that it does not get out). The guys installed a canopy for me https://carportaustralia.com.au/colorbond-carport/, but if you do it on your own, look carefully.


----------



## Glassit (Jan 30, 2016)

You did a pretty good job with the coating and mat but it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for even a pro to get a completely tight, lasting seal between the upper shingle and the groove below it. The correct fix would have been flashing below the shingles as others have said. It appears you have no drip edge under the coating? Most likely you have water running sideways at the bottom of that 2nd course, due to surface tension, and wicking itself into the hundreds of small gaps between the coating and the granules, then into the groove between shingles, then onto the sheathing at bottom of roof since there's no drip edge. And once it's there it's trapped by the coating so can only go inside. You might be able to eliminate this, or at least cut down the flow, by sliding meatal or a strip of torch-down roofing under the 2nd course all the way to the nails, completely covering the first course, then sliding a 2nd strip under the 3rd course, up the the nails, covering as much of the first strip you put down as possible. Don't fully seal whatever you put down to each other or the roof, you need to allow a way for water to weep out, not trap it. The correct fix was already mentioned but would be somewhat more involved.


----------



## slotsru (7 mo ago)

This is a common situation, don't worry. It's just that apparently, the components of the canopy are not tightly bound together. Contact a handyperson, and he will help you.


----------



## Frank Lavorngia (7 mo ago)

I feel your pain Skizman.


----------

