# Green is the New Black



## DangerMouse

do you mean if we go green we might actually be able to stay in the black? for us it's all about saving $$$!!!

great post aaron

DM


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## aaron.klimchuk

Hey if staying in the black, especially these days, does it for you...then sure!


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## Educator

Hi Aaron,

Never enough focus, IMO, on incorporating 'greeness' into home reno's.

*Solar Air Heating*

Not brand new, but installed on the outside of south facing walls or roofs, these devices use the sun to help generate heat for the home during sunny days. We just received ours and our hoping to have it installed by the end of next week.

*Solar Charged Lawn Mower*

Gas mowers are amongst the most polluting devices home owners can use. We used a new model this past year, sold at HD under the Solaris lable, which can use a 2 ft X 2 ft solar panel to charge the batteries so no poluting emissions during operating the mower or charging it.

*Exterior Solar Shades*

Applied on the outside of south, east and west facing windows, these simple devices stop most of the sun's UV rays from reaching the windows let alone entering the home causing excessive heat build-up during the summer. We tried them for the first time this year and were very pleased. The ones we bought off the internet were easy to install and reduced the reading of our temperature guage by 15 F degrees.

*Energy Audits*

In Canada there is the ecoENERGY Retrofit program providing energy efficient home renovation grants based on before and after energy audits. We had the 'before' one done last winter and learn a lot. In the States, many local utilities offer them for free and help the home owner prioritize home reno projects with information about energy inefficiencies from an independant party.

Those are my main energy conservation projects this year that we have and are writing about on our home web site.

*References:*
http://dailyhomerenotips.com/2008/10/24/solar-air-space-heating-part-1-another-type-of-solar-energy/


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## Winchester

*Cellulose Insulation*

Cellulose Insulation is one of the greenest products in the world.
Made from a renewable natural resource which diverts waste from landfills, Cellulose insulation not only limits greenhouse gas emissions during manufacturing, but also prevents waste paper from releasing environmentally harmful gases as it decomposes. 



Cellulose takes less energy to make than any other insulation material.
Cellulose has the highest level of post-consumer recycled content in the industry - up to 85% recycled newspaper. Paper is the largest component of landfills and producing Cellulose insulation diverts waste from the landfills thus saving valuable space.
Cellulose insulation prevents the release of greenhouse gases (methane) as they decompose in landfills.
Cellulose insulation can naturally break down after its useful life unlike fiberglass which does not. In the event of a natural disaster, only non-toxic, biodegradable material will be spread around for clean-up and not something that will never decompose.
Cellulose insulation can be locally produced. Using local recycling programs and independent recyclers and servicing communities close to home brings new meaning to the old slogan “Think Globally, Act Locally.”
*Rain Barrels*

Recycle nature's own! Your landscaping will benefit from the natural rain water and it will alleviate the costs of water utilities. Use it for your indoor plants too.


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## Kat13

We decided to remodel our kitchen. I wanted to reuse & recycle as much as possible. 
I was hoping to donate my old cabinets, but that was not possible. I was able to save all the doors & drawers and donated them to the Salvation Army. As well as the counter, old stove & fridge. 
Almost everything I have purchased is used. I got an amazing set of almost new cabinets for $800 There were 11 pieces in the set & they are really nice. Ceiling fan, stove, fridge, etc... all top of the line - but used, so they are a fraction of the cost of new. There are some things that had to be purchased new, such as drywall, insulation, tile, electrial & plumbing, but bought them from Habitat For Humanity. 
Online, I found someone selling a 12 ft. long stainless steel counter with a double integrated sink, for 80% less than what it would be, as a special order. It is brand new, never installed, because it was not made to the correct specifications. 
We will refinish the hardwood floors, instead of replacing them. Spray painted the hanging lamp, over the table, to go from brass to pewter. I am building my own kitchen island. 
Our 12 x 17 kitchen was gutted, and our trash pile was so small that we didn't even need a dumpster. The more you can keep out of the landfill, the better. 
The entire kitchen remodel will be less than $2000


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## ALICIA21

aaron.klimchuk said:


> The green movement is certainly upon us these days and it’s important to understand exactly what this means. While I’m not going to sit here and preach about he current state of our environment, it’s quite apparent that the world (United States certainly) needs to start making some serious changes if we want to sustain our quality of living for future generations.
> 
> The green movement has made its way into the home improvement and construction industry, which is a great thing. While other markets or industries may come and go, homes and business aren’t going anywhere. Shelter is a necessity of life so making home improvement and construction more environmentally friendly is very important to making going green work. Green home improvement is always evolving and expanding so I’d like to dedicate this thread to being almost a directory of eco conscious home improvement ideas and projects. Post information or new ideas that you think will help homeowners and construction contractors both in doing their part to saving the environment.
> 
> I’ll start it off with the most mainstream green home improvement subjects with very brief descriptions.
> 
> *Solar Power Systems*
> 
> The most commonly known form of green home improvement, solar power systems convert the Sun’s radiant heat energy into usable 120 volt power for the home. Solar energy can also be used to heat water, which again cuts back on energy usage. Homes that only use solar power are said to be “off the grid”.
> 
> *Energy Efficient Windows*
> 
> As the title states, many new windows are designed to be as energy efficient as possible. They allow the Sun’s rays to enter which helps with heating while at the same time keeping an airtight seal between the outside world and the interior of the home or office.
> 
> *Green Remodeling*
> 
> While soapstone is fairly new to the green movement, general ideas can be instituted here. Contractors should use as much recycled and readily renewable resources when constructing. Using non-toxic paints and sealers not only help the environment but won’t have fumes which can be dangerous to the health of everyone involved.
> 
> The biggest part is appliances. Usually new appliances are added when a kitchen, bathroom or basement remodeling project is started. This is where you can really do your part, energy efficient appliances are everywhere just look for the blue energystar to see what each is rated. Go with lo-flow toilets and sinks. The best way to make your remodeling project a green one is by being conscious with the amount of natural resources you use. Reducing your energy and water consumption is your best bet
> 
> *HVAC – Heating and Cooling*
> 
> The easiest and most cost efficient way to help your HVAC system is to replace it’s filter frequently. A clean filter will not only take more pollutants out of the air, making your air quality much better, but it will also keep your heating and air conditioning system running as optimally as possible. This means a reduction in the amount of energy needed to keep your home its desired temperature.
> 
> *Flooring*
> 
> Many recycled and renewable flooring options are now available along with some that have been around for years. Bamboo and cork are great flooring materials which can give your home the unique look you’ve been looking for. Carpeting can also be quite eco friendly. Many types of carpeting are synthetic and can be recycled quite easily. Check out designs, styles and colors to find a green friendly flooring option just right for your home.
> 
> 
> *Resources and Links:*
> 
> http://www.ecohomesite.com
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/11/green_home_impr.php
> http://www.greenhome.com
> http://www.greenhomeimprovements.info/


 
While soapstone is fairly new to the green movement, general ideas can be instituted here.


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## Marvin Gardens

I get all my lumber, windows, doors, flooring, HVAC, paint, foundation supplies and more all used, overstock, mismatched, over ordered, wrong sizes bankruptsy, going out of business, or any other reason.

Much of it is free and if I pay it is 10 cents on the dollar or less.

I do it cause I am a cheap a$$.

Used lumber is not allowed if it has holes in it or does not have a grade stamp on it. Screw 'em, I use it anyhow. I don't need to have to pay an lumber grader to come out and tell me that the lumber is okay to use and have it stamped. The cost for me is too much. Besides I can tell when a board is good for structural or not. I spent years in the woods falling timber and know when I see a bad board.

I get OSB from construction sites that toss out large pieces. My sheet rock is the same and I use that for patching sections where a full size is not needed. It's all free.

Green for me is cheap. I have been doing this for decades and now I have to compete with everyone else to get this stuff. I still get the deals but I have to make alot of offers to get the same stuff I did a few years back. Lumber is the hardest. Missized windows are easy since most people just buy the new ones at HD or Low's.


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## Marvin Gardens

Winchester said:


> *Rain Barrels*
> Recycle nature's own! Your landscaping will benefit from the natural rain water and it will alleviate the costs of water utilities. Use it for your indoor plants too.


In some areas rain barrels are illegal because the rain that falls is under the jurisdiction of the city or county. That is the case in many places in Oregon.

I collect rain water anyhow. Let them come and mess with me. Not only do I save rain water I use it for toilet water which is illegal. It is filtered to keep it from clogging up the valve in the toilets.

Plus I drain my tub/shower into the back yard to water the trees, lawn and garden. This is also illegal but I do it anyhow.


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## DangerMouse

i hear ya there Marvin, we too recycle just about anything here, but not 'cause we're cheap, we're...'financially challenged' (gotta stay PC)
when my kid's goldfish outgrew it's little bowl, i built a new tank. silicone, glass scraps, and wood framed in oak and walnut. (many of my projects combine the two, as i have a lot of it) i pull cherry, maple, etc. logs from the woodbox that look 'interesting', then cut, shape, and plane them to store until needed. i also bought 4 trees worth of roughcut 14'x13"x1" and some 2" thick planks for $150 from a guy near here that was 'going to' someday use them for flooring. i got around 50 planks of white oak, red oak, and 2 walnut trees worth. so far i've created 5 lamps, some boxes, and a beautiful oak/walnut door for the wood storage box next to the woodstove. i plan on doing mostly pocket doors and i will most likely create them from that wood. we try to purchase as many supplies as we can from auctions and habitat for humanity as possible. i invented and installed a unique way of heating our entire home with our little 20" woodstove that has saved us thousands on propane. most likely it would not pass an inspection, although "I'VE" deemed it safe and have used it for 3 years now. our first year we had to fill the propane tank twice and went through many truckloads of firewood. the last 3 years, no fillups at all, we only had to add 200 gallons this summer as we needed it for cooking and 200 was their minimum. by 'capping' off, i can get the bathroom up to 80, 90 degrees in sub-zero weather, and also get a nice hot towel to dry off with. imagine a hair dryer on high blowing all day long. it kinda works lke that. i designed and built my own coffee table with free oak and free tempered, etched glass my father gave me. we pay 'full price' for very little. i purchased 10 solid oak cabinets from a guy for $20.00 each and refinished them and they look brand new! (he paid 45 each at auction) i will attempt to find time today and take pics of all these things (except the heat system) for you guys to see. there's so much more i could add, but this post would turn into a novel.

DM


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## Educator

Marvin Gardens said:


> I do it cause I am a cheap a$$.
> 
> Green for me is cheap.


Hi Marvin Gardens,

I hear ya. I don't like wasting money either. :yes:

Yesterday we installed our solar air heater, the device which uses direct sunlight to generate heat. In our case we are using it to help heat the 1,700 sq. ft. basement.

Free heat. No polluting emmissions or consumption of non-renewable resources like home heating oil or natural gas.:thumbsup:

Cheap is the new green. :thumbup:


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## Marvin Gardens

Educator said:


> Hi Marvin Gardens,
> 
> I hear ya. I don't like wasting money either. :yes:
> 
> Yesterday we installed our solar air heater, the device which uses direct sunlight to generate heat. In our case we are using it to help heat the 1,700 sq. ft. basement.
> 
> Free heat. No polluting emmissions or consumption of non-renewable resources like home heating oil or natural gas.:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheap is the new green. :thumbup:


When the sun comes up I think $$$$$$$. When the wind blows I think $$$$$$.

All my neighbors give me their cardboard to burn and I can heat my house for 2 days on all of that.

There is a remodel going on across the street and I get all the left over wood that normally would go in the dumpster and I burn that also. I figure that I will have a 3 month supply and save at least $500 in fuel costs.

I had some property that had a year round creek on it and I damed it up and ran a car alternator to power my home. That was 30 years ago before all this was the rage.

I was cheap then, and I'm cheap now.


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## retro

Marvin Gardens said:


> Plus I drain my tub/shower into the back yard to water the trees, lawn and garden. This is also illegal but I do it anyhow.


How did you do this. Do you have the grey water going into some sort of tank then pumping it out to a sprinkler or is it just gravity fed? Im guessing you have a crawl space under your house? Im interested in doing this when we build our house.


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## Marvin Gardens

retro said:


> How did you do this. Do you have the grey water going into some sort of tank then pumping it out to a sprinkler or is it just gravity fed? Im guessing you have a crawl space under your house? Im interested in doing this when we build our house.


It's gravity. The main floor tub/shower is about 4 feet above grade. We have a basement.

I put in a valve so that if the anti-green city comes out and tells me I have to change it out I just flip the valve and it goes into their precious sewer.

I am in the process of using rainwater to fill the tub. I have to get more filtration to make that happen.

My goal it to get a 1000 gallon tank in the ground and save all the rain water so I can use nothing but rain water for everything except drinking. Originally I was going to use the attic of my garage and that is why it is made of 2x8 studs and 2x12 joists all on 12 inch centers. People who know constriction always look and ask me about that. :laughing:


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## aaron.klimchuk

It's great to hear all these ideas are working for you Marvin. While most homeowners won't take going green to your extent, we can only hope that they start thinking about the future.


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## Marvin Gardens

aaron.klimchuk said:


> It's great to hear all these ideas are working for you Marvin. While most homeowners won't take going green to your extent, we can only hope that they start thinking about the future.


I have a really large family and have 5 nephews in the building trade. One is going to school to be an architect and the other is wanting to build energy efficient homes. Several of the uncles want to finance it for a total of 8 in the whole group.

We are going to build a spec house that will have things like passive heating, hydronic cooling, solar hot water build into the roof and modular so it can be swapped out, a very large underground water storage tank for storing hot water, solar electric with grid tie, whole house exhaust fan with electronic venting that opens and closes, and a few other things.

It will all be run by a Mac that will control all the switches, valves, lighting, heating, cooling, and movement of air from one part of the house to another, and the security system.

The really cool part is that it will be affordable by most people. The initial cost will be about $30,000 higher but their energy bills will be a lot lower. On paper the overall cost of ownership will be the same if you consider the house payments and the monthly energy costs.

With energy costs doing nothing but going up this will pay for itself in less than 10 years.


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## fhivinylwindows

Nice article Aaron! My green blog was getting a little traffic from your resource link and it took me an hour to locate where the link was on this site. If you get a chance look into the solar hot air panels they provide heat as long as the sun is shining. Northern tools are selling them along with a network of furnish and install companies all over the country.


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## Educator

fhivinylwindows said:


> Nice article Aaron! My green blog was getting a little traffic from your resource link and it took me an hour to locate where the link was on this site. If you get a chance look into the solar hot air panels they provide heat as long as the sun is shining. Northern tools are selling them along with a network of furnish and install companies all over the country.


Actually, one can purchase solar air collectors direct from certain manufacturers and install them themselves to avoid a dealer markup.

We did just that very thing for our home this past November. At least the model we purchased and installed is easy to do, weighed around 70-ish pounds and fit very nicely on our south facing wall.

If anyone is interested to see how we installed ours we have written a rather extensive series of articles about our experiences, comparison to another manufacturer's model we did, etc. on solar air heaters within our home blog.


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## DangerMouse

i went ahead and built a solar air heater recently too. it works.... ummm, ok, i guess. 
now to build a giant one to heat the whole house!

DM


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## Educator

DangerMouse said:


> i went ahead and built a solar air heater recently too. it works.... ummm, ok, i guess.
> now to build a giant one to heat the whole house!
> 
> DM


That's great! I wish I had the time and the capability to do that myself. Unfortunately, I have neither. But if one does, that certainly is the way to go.


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## fhivinylwindows

Educator said:


> If anyone is interested to see how we installed ours we have written a rather extensive series of articles about our experiences, comparison to another manufacturer's model we did, etc. on solar air heaters within our home blog.


I made to page 10 and you blog is showing a 404 error when I hit the link to page #11---let me know when you repair the link so I can finish the rest of the story. BTW--Great blog review on the subject, the pictures and spacing make for a very easy read.


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## Educator

fhivinylwindows said:


> I made to page 10 and you blog is showing a 404 error when I hit the link to page #11---let me know when you repair the link so I can finish the rest of the story. BTW--Great blog review on the subject, the pictures and spacing make for a very easy read.


Hi fhivinylwindows,

Done. Many thanks for letting me know about the broken link.


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## aaron.klimchuk

I have definitely visited quite a few times. Good site, with some great ideas.

Lets get some more green home improvement ideas, products and projects up here guys! Keep em coming.


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## DangerMouse

i built this for free pretty much as i had the stuff laying around anyways. 1" foam insulated chamber with glass over it and caulk-sealed warms the cans up pretty good! i got 100 degree plus readings on the top output hole on the few sunny days we've had! not bad... now we need more sun! anyone wants 'plans' for this, let me know. the holes in the top go all the way through to corresponding holes to the bottom chamber with the fan. so it just collects the heat from inside the cans. did i err? should i add holes to empty the chamber air as well? from outside the cans?

DM


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## aaron.klimchuk

you guys really impress me with these DIY projects!


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## Marvin Gardens

DangerMouse said:


> i built this for free pretty much as i had the stuff laying around anyways. 1" foam insulated chamber with glass over it and caulk-sealed warms the cans up pretty good! i got 100 degree plus readings on the top output hole on the few sunny days we've had! not bad... now we need more sun! anyone wants 'plans' for this, let me know. the holes in the top go all the way through to corresponding holes to the bottom chamber with the fan. so it just collects the heat from inside the cans. did i err? should i add holes to empty the chamber air as well? from outside the cans?
> 
> DM


The problem with this type of heat is that you need a volume of warm air that is equal to the volume being heated. Plus there is no ability to store the heat.

I prefer solar hot water since I can store it in large tanks and use it at night when I need it the most. On sunny days my home uses solar radiation to heat it up to 70 even in the middle of the winter. It is all in the design of the structure. Yesterday it was 22 and inside it was 72 and almost unbearable. We keep the house at 64 and we have acclimated to that. Now 68 seems hot to us.

Daytime heating is not what I need more of.

For this reason I will have 2000 gallons of water that will store over 1.5 million BTU's of heat that will allow me to go for 4 days without sun and still heat my place.

When the sun does come out I can create over 18,000 BTU's per hour to replenish the system.


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## DangerMouse

if i had the financial resources.... well, the utility company would be paying ME! but i make do with what i have, as so many of us do.

DM


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## Marvin Gardens

I find it interesting that more and more "green" companies are seeing lots of red. The largest carbon credit offset trader is on the verge of going Chapter 11. Many of the solar panel companies are reporting a big slow down in sales and even the wind generation business is in a big slump.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/174063

Green is only for the rich and when times get tough people go for cheap.


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## Educator

Marvin Gardens said:


> Green is only for the rich and when times get tough people go for cheap.


Hi Marvin,

I can't let that last comment go by. While I do know the context in which you wrote it, I did actually collect numerous energy conservation tips that cost nothing or next to nothing to implement.

Most of these are common sense, naturally.

Aaron and others have made reference more than once to a home blog on this topic. On that blog is an Energy Conservation page where this list can be found. To date there are over 240 home energy conservation tips, the vast, vast majority of which are simple ot do and cost nothing or next to nothing to implement.

Just thought I would share this with the others if interested.

To the board ops, if this is against board policy I sincerely apologize in providing this link.

Dan


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## Marvin Gardens

Educator said:


> Hi Marvin,
> 
> I can't let that last comment go by. While I do know the context in which you wrote it, I did actually collect numerous energy conservation tips that cost nothing or next to nothing to implement.
> 
> Most of these are common sense, naturally.
> Dan


Bad times is when I really make my home more energy efficient. Projects get canceled, people go bankrupt, companies overproduce, competition gets stiffer, and maintenance gets costly.

I buy my windows used or projects that got canceled and pay next to nothing.

Next week I am removing some solar hot water panels off a roof in exchange for sealing the leaks around the pipes through the roof. I get 4 panels, the copper pipe, the pump, the bladder tank, the valves and the gages. All for fixing a roof that will cost me about $20 and an hour labor.

When times get hard people cut back on everything. To many it is all about survival and they could care less about green.


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## fhivinylwindows

Marvin Gardens said:


> When times get hard people cut back on everything. To many it is all about survival and they could care less about green.


I can understand your statement when it comes to big purchases that will take several years for the payback. I sell energy efficient doors & windows and we are not setting any records this fall--people are a little tight right now. 

On the other hand, there are tons of ways to be green and actually save money, here's a short list of some of the changes I made this year:

1. Internet faxing- Direct savings of $480 in monthly fees, $280 in toner for the fax machine since we are now almost 90% paperless and maybe a $50 savings in paper (these numbers are off of the top of my head). *Total savings $810- out of pocket expenses $000.00*

2. Recycling- we pay a $2.00 fee for every garbage bag that we put on the curb. By recycling everything we save about 1.5 garbage bags a week. *Total savings $156, out of pocket expenses $6.00 for an extra recycling bin.*

3. Bulk ordering a green caulking that works better than the high VOC stuff at the home centers. *Total savings $1276.80 out of pocket expenses $000.00*

4. Home grown organic veggies- I have no clue how much we saved but I love to eat a ton of tomatoes and my little garden produced tomatoes from early June until late October. It got to the point where I supplied most of the people on my street with fresh organic produce (I should of sold them). As a wild guess 5 months at $15.00 per week= *$300 and my out of pocket was around $100 for above ground planters and starter plants.*


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## Educator

fhivinylwindows said:


> 1. Internet faxing- Direct savings of $480 in monthly fees, $280 in toner for the fax machine since we are now almost 90% paperless and maybe a $50 savings in paper (these numbers are off of the top of my head). *Total savings $810- out of pocket expenses $000.00*


Hi fhivinylwindows,

As a work from home dude (when I am not on the road) I really like that idea of internet faxing.

What about on the receiver's end? Do you know if an internet fax can be received by a computer vs a fax maching to save even more on toner and paper in the grander picture?

Thanks,
Dan


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## fhivinylwindows

Educator said:


> Hi fhivinylwindows,
> 
> As a work from home dude (when I am not on the road) I really like that idea of internet faxing.
> 
> What about on the receiver's end? Do you know if an internet fax can be received by a computer vs a fax maching to save even more on toner and paper in the grander picture?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan


They show up as an e-mail. I can view mine on my phone and even send one from my phone if I am on the road. When someone sends me one I can have the system forward it to as many people as I like. Since the incoming faxes are PDF's there is really no need to print them--just store them on your computer. 

When I want to send one I just create an email with the fax number and then add who I use for a fax service like [email protected]). I can add excel or word file or just type out a page. 

Shop around for the best rates based on your usage, for me myfax had the best plan but others might have a better plan for you. Since I now have most of my vendors talked into e-mails instead of faxes I only get maybe 20 faxes a week compared to a couple hundred a week a year ago.


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## Marvin Gardens

Internet faxing from computer to computer is called email.

I just scan all documents that I need to "fax" and then send it as an email. I get a copy on my computer and there is no paper or toner used on either end. Most companies do that and they are called PDF's.

I even have a gif of my signature and just put that on the document if I have to sign it. If it is a PDF I convert it to a text document, sign it and save it as another pdf and send it. Just did that last week for a warranty on a Jacuzzi tub.

Faxing is so last century.

When I do things to save money I go for the big items. Like solar hot water that heats not only my hot water but my house. Savings over 10 years amounts to tens of thousands of dollars.

I don't understand how buying green caulking saves you $1200 and there is not out of pocket expense? Seems to me that the stuff isn't free and has to cost you something. Plus the average homeowner is not going to buy cases of the stuff.

As for garbage we pay by the can. If we have extra we put it in the neighbors or vise versa. Kind of a community thing there. No savings for us there.

I get brand new windows for $10 for a 4040 with screen and stickers. After I put the window in I apply for the energy credit and get $2.25/sq ft and end up making money when I do that. Total out of the pocket to me is $-20.00 considering the caulking and stop seal.

Sheetrock comes from new house construction and is left overs that they leave or toss since it is more expensive to return it. Most of it is half sheets and I just have to do a little more taping.

When I plan out a room I make sure the design is flexible so that I can alter it depending on what kind of supplies I get. Then I gather the supplies and store them outside and once they are all assembled I make the update to the room.

Even my wire is left overs. If I have a 6 foot piece of wire then I just put in a socket. Can't have enough sockets these days. I wire the average room for about $100.

I bought a portable mill and get wind falls out of the forest and cut my own lumber. Instead of a tree going to rot I cut lumber out of it and get it for next to nothing. I can cut enough lumber in one day to build a 2000 sq ft house and do it all for about $200 and 10 hours of some hard work for me and my wife.

My neighbors call me the scavenger. If they need something they just call me and I start looking for it.

Look at my windows in the New Room. I got them for $100 for all of them (plus one that wasn't put in and will be for another project). They are double glazed, brand new, and the two on either side of the picture window (5060) are casement (2060). That's at least $750 worth of windows if you bought them new (Milgard).

When I think of savings I think long term and large sums of money. The really cool part is that I do it on the cheap.


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## fhivinylwindows

Marvin Gardens said:


> Internet faxing from computer to computer is called email.
> 
> 
> 
> Faxing is so last century.
> 
> When I do things to save money I go for the big items. Like solar hot water that heats not only my hot water but my house. Savings over 10 years amounts to tens of thousands of dollars.
> 
> I don't understand how buying green caulking saves you $1200 and there is not out of pocket expense? Seems to me that the stuff isn't free and has to cost you something. Plus the average homeowner is not going to buy cases of the stuff.
> 
> 
> My neighbors call me the scavenger. If they need something they just call me and I start looking for it.
> 
> 
> When I think of savings I think long term and large sums of money. The really cool part is that I do it on the cheap.


Marvin, I was talking about internet fax as one user faxing from their computer to a stand alone fax machine. I guess two people could use an internet fax system to send e-mail faxes but that would be a little silly.

Correct on faxing being so last century----the problem is most people don't know that yet.

In reference to the caulking, I save $1.33 per tube buying it in bulk. Granted a home owner will not want or need to buy it in bulk but it saves me money and I can pass the savings onto them if I want.

You sound a little like my neighbor Ernie with your thrifty (and green) ways to save on home improvements! I can't think of a single item that I would need to build a home that he doesn't have sitting around.


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## Marvin Gardens

fhivinylwindows said:


> Marvin, I was talking about internet fax as one user faxing from their computer to a stand alone fax machine. I guess two people could use an internet fax system to send e-mail faxes but that would be a little silly.
> 
> Correct on faxing being so last century----the problem is most people don't know that yet.
> 
> In reference to the caulking, I save $1.33 per tube buying it in bulk. Granted a home owner will not want or need to buy it in bulk but it saves me money and I can pass the savings onto them if I want.
> 
> You sound a little like my neighbor Ernie with your thrifty (and green) ways to save on home improvements! I can't think of a single item that I would need to build a home that he doesn't have sitting around.


Most companies are into paper reduction. Very few don't have most of their documents online in some form or another.

Scanners are cheap and fast. In fact a scanner is a fax without the modem. It just sends the data to the computer instead of over the phone lines.

My driveway is full of stuff for projects that are not even started yet.

Just last week I picked up 4 cu yds of top soil from a neighbor down the street that she over ordered. Got it for free. I just took my wagon and loaded it up and hauled it over to my house. I had scraped off the top 6 inches of soil as it was nothing but rock and clay and it was difficult to grow a nice lawn.

It took me about 20 trips to haul it all but it was worth the time and I got a whole lot of exercise. I imagine I exhaled a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere but with the extremely cold weather we are having we could use a little, no make that a lot, of global warming. We are having record lows around here and have not seen weather like this in over 40 years.

The forecast is for another 2-5 inches of global warming by this weekend.


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## kimbo

*Rain barrels*



Marvin Gardens said:


> In some areas rain barrels are illegal because the rain that falls is under the jurisdiction of the city or county. That is the case in many places in Oregon.
> 
> I collect rain water anyhow. Let them come and mess with me. Not only do I save rain water I use it for toilet water which is illegal. It is filtered to keep it from clogging up the valve in the toilets.
> 
> Plus I drain my tub/shower into the back yard to water the trees, lawn and garden. This is also illegal but I do it anyhow.


I cant believe that they have made it illigal to catch rain water where you are living! Im in South Africa and we reuse all our grey water and the rain water goes for not just the garden but the toilet as well.
At least we do, we are in the bush so not all Saffas do it


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