# New Minnesota homeowner & found rotten bath subfloor...HELP!



## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Sure send some pics, we like pics  What material is the sub-floor: plywood or boards? How old is your house? You'll have to pull out any rotten wood, replace with appropriate thicknesses of new plywood, and perhaps blocking to support edges, then put your new surface down. While it's up you need to find out where the water has been coming from and fix the problem. None of this is rocket science, I'm sure with a little advice you can get through it, it IS fun.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

I am not sure if I got this picture thing right...let's hope they show up when I post this!

The house was built in the late 1960's...1968, I think. The floor looks like it was done with boards, not plywood. The previous owner's disclosed a leak that was noticed on the garage ceiling and wall, which happens to be immediately under where this bathroom issue is. They said that the leak was "completely fixed". They didn't describe what the actual problem was, but I'd like to know so I can follow up on it as long as I am ripping up the floors! They either didn't know the leak caused the damage on the bathroom floor, OR they only fixed the leak (hopefully) but not the damage, and then covered it up with new linoleum. Once I get the subfloor out, I can look at the bottom of the wood to see if the rot was visible when they "fixed" the leak problem from the bathroom in the garage area.

I am new to tools & all this stuff, so I am intimidated by cutting the floor open. I am sure I can do it once I have enough information, but there are so many "little" questions! Like, do I have to worry about wiring or pipes when I cut into the subfloor? That wouldn't be fun to deal with, ha.

THANKS for helping!

Leah


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## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

If you're new to tools and intimidated about cutting into flooring, maybe you should get someone to do this for you. (You should not hit any pipes or electrical wires unless they're built into the flooring for heat, and you should know that by now one way or another.)
However, if you want to DIY, you will need a circular power saw with an old blade (you WILL hit nails or screws), safety glasses, and a crowbar, flatbar, and clawhammer to pry up the bad flooring sections.
It is easiest to cut it into small sections no bigger than two feet square or so, and then pry those out. At first, adjust the depth of the blade to just cut into the upper flooring level and not into the subfloor until you're sure that the subfloor needs to be cut out too.
You will need to cut the bad flooring out back to the center of the adjoining good wood floor joists, so that you'll have something to screw the new flooring to. You also will need to put 14.5" blocks between the floor joists (level with the tops of the joists) at the ends of the cut-out sections for additional support, also half under the old and the new flooring.
Use screws and glue (like Liquid Nails) on the joists and between the layers. Stagger the joints as best you can of the upper flooring and subflooring.
Good Luck!
Mike


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Mike's got it, adjust the saw to cut only one layer at a time. It will also make you feel more comfortable with a screaming circular saw in your bathroom if, in addition to safety glasses (a must), you also wear earmuffs and gloves. I have run into (thankfully not cut into) both wiring and plumbing far too close under floors, you never know what previous people have done, once you've got an access cut, take a look with a flashlight and mirror, or feel around in the cavity (that's where the gloves come in handy).


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*SOME progress!*

* Well, last night I cut out a small piece of the subfloor to check it's thickness (which is 1/2"). After that I used the circular saw to cut out a "trial" section of the floor. It went well! What I saw underneath was insulation that had obviously been wet at some point. The joist that I exposed looks good, but I still have to check out the others that are under subfloor that sustained more damage than where I cut.*

*Anyhow, now that I feel okay with using the circular saw, but obviously I can't use it to cut out the floor right next to the bathtub, wall behind where the toilet goes, and the vanity. More questions! 1. How do I cut those areas, with a recip. saw? (I do have one but I haven't used it yet - can't be too tough.)*

*2. I am not sure how to cut around the toilet flange. Is there anything special that I need to do there?*

*3. Since the subfloor damage goes right up to the bathtub, do I need to worry about the floor underneath the tub? *

*I know that I CAN do this, I just need enough information - I am learning as I go. *

*THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR RESPONSES! You have no idea how much I appreciate it!*

*Leah*

*P.S. Are you able to see the photos I posted?*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

1- Yes, with the recip. Hang onto it! They tend to kick really hard at you when you are 'pushing' with the tip.

2- The flange will be screwed to the floor, take the screws out and then cut the plywood out in pieces around the flange, you might have to dig some nails out, and the recip could be handy here.

3- Get up close to the tub with the circ. saw and you should be able to tell (see/feel) if the rot goes under it. If so you're likely gonna have to pull the tub.  What's on the walls around the tub?

ps. the pics came through but it looks like you have a micrscopic bathroom. (They're small)

Remember that anything you take out you're going to have to replace, so you want to cut in nice straight, square lines to make it easier later.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*A couple more questions...*

*1. Around the doorways - do I remove the t-molding/threshold to the adjoining rooms and then cut up to the edge where the carpet is (with recip saw)?*

*2. Also, should I remove the trim around the door to do this?*

*To answer the question about the bathtub walls, it's just sheetrock. There was a plastic surround system that I have already torn out. I will probably remove it all anyway so I can eventually put up tile instead of another plastic surround. I really want a new tub, but I am not sure about connecting the plumbing myself. Oh, that, and the probability that I will have to take out part of the doorway to get a new tub in!*

*I am going to try and attach some bigger pictures - let me know if they work!*

*THANKS AGAIN & AGAIN!  *

*Leah*


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## Zero Punch (Nov 15, 2005)

I have some Q's for you leahjane. First though, much better pictures. 
The subfloor is waterstained but is it still solid or is it delaminating? Has it dried out or is it still wet/damp?
If it is solid and not delaminating I see no reason to replace if it will hold a nail.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Zero Punch: Unfortunately, I am able to kind-of "bounce" on the wood, especially by the toilet. Plus, the underside of the subfloor is damaged, too. *

*Every layer of floor smelled horribly moldy when I pulled it up, but went away soon after. I assume that means it was damp when I pulled it up. Regardless, everything is dry now (whew!). *

*Does that help?  *

*Leah*


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## Zero Punch (Nov 15, 2005)

leahjane

Another Q, have you remove some of the subfloor after this last set of pic's were posted? You seem to imply that a section has been removed down to the joists?


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Yep, a very small section maybe about a foot long & wide, enough to expose one of the joists. I was itchin' to see if it was damaged.*

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke!" Meaning only cut back to where rot ends. If the floor is simply waterstained then leave it. From the pics it doesn't look like you have to get close to the door, but if you do, follow the rot.
If you're going to be tiling then you might as well get rid of the drywall around the tub 'cos you're going to want put cement board up as underlayment for the tile. The tub should fit through the door on it's side. To take the tub out: unscrew the overflow trim and then the bracket behind that. Unscrew the drain strainer, you can get the proper wrench for this for a few $$. Once the drywall has been removed you will probably see a few screws holding the tub flange to the wall studs, pull those and the tub will be free. It's a real struggle to get the tub out but persist, it will come if you grunt hard enough.


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Looked at the pics some more...you'll need to take the door trim off prob. just to get the tub out. And, of course, take the door off.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Here's the progress so far...! My brother-in-law came over on Saturday to help me cut close to the walls & bathtub. The recip. saw was really hard for me to use - the kickback made me nervous. I am bummed that I needed help, because the feeling of accomplishment has already been wonderful. That, and it's great to see the looks on people's faces when they hear that I am doing this on my own (like I mentioned earlier, I am a "girly-girl", lol!).*

*Thanks again for your input! Any suggestions are still welcomed!  *

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Yeah, sawzalls can kick, you'll get it.
Looks good, have you reached the end of your rot? Is this room over an unheated space? If the insulation ever got wet you should replace it. You'll need to look under it regardless just to see if there's more damage there. Are you replacing the tub? if so now is the time. What finish surface will you be putting down on the floor? If you're ready to start putting it back together, you need to put blocking in between the floor joists to support the edges of the plywood that you'll be screwing down next. Cut 2x4's to fit snugly between the joists and tuck them up tight to the tub and also 1/2 way under the edge of the existing plywood. These blocks need to be firmly attached to the joists. Put fasteners wherever you can get them. Then cut matching thickness plywood and screw it down.


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## justdon (Nov 16, 2005)

Leah,
IF you are going to tile the tub surround make sure you tile that blank wall(now) that is behind the stool. Nothing worse than trying to 'paint' behind a stool. You will thank yourself for years and many paint jobs to come. And makes it look so much more finished. Good place to practice first trys.
Congrads on doing it yourself, your parents and friends will be proud!! As well as yourself!!
IF that vanity is in your road and it sure looks that way, I might think of setting it outside the work area for a bit. cap the water lines and away you go!!!


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## justdon (Nov 16, 2005)

Leah,
My question is whats wrong with your present tub? Color? finish? steel with pocelian finish? Made of plastic etc? What would a new tub do that this one doesnt?
If you can repair or fix satisfactory leave it and surround with ceramic tile, would that make it look like new?

Also same question on floor. Can you put ceramic tile on it? Is that what you would 'like'? Really dresses up in comparasion to vinyl. If such a small bath as it appears a 4' wainscoat around wall wouldnt hurt either and not REAL expensive compared to other treatments? What were your plans? When doing a bath seldom costs alot more to go first class as compared to second rate where YOU can enjoy it every day. Even a heating element floor cant be too much IF it is your main use bath. Is this off master bedroom? or main bath off of main floor hallway??? Good luck with your project. Hope even one small thing is making it better for you.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*A few questions anwered:  *

*The bathroom is the main bathroom. There are two doors to the bathroom - one to the hallway and also one to the mater bedroom. I have a tuck-under garage, and the bathroom is above the garage. *

*I'd like to replace the bathtub for a few reasons: 1. Because it seems really shallow to me (I am 5'10"). 2. Because the finish has some scratches. 3. Because the finish on the tub floor has those awful sand-papery rough spots to reduce slippage. NOT the kind that you buy and stick on, rather the kind that was built into the tub. Ew. 3. The tub shape is strange - it actually tapers in where your right foot is when you sit in the tub. I suppose it was so there was room for shampoo/soap/etc. on the edge of the tub. (Does that make sense?) The strange thing about the tub is that I can't seem to find the hanger clips that hold the tub to the wall! Everything that I have read seems to indicate that the clips are easy to find. Well, mine are not!*

*I am not yet sure what finish I will put down on the floor once it's repaired. Probably tile. I'll likely replace the sheetrock in the tub/shower and tile there as well.*

*I definitely want to rip out the old vanity. Last night I was inspecting the plumbing connections with the sinks. I found that there are no shut-off valves for the sinks. Does this mean that I will have to shut off the main water supply just to disconnect the sink plumbing?! That would suck because I'd have to wait to remove the old vanity/vanity top until the very minute I am going to replace it. There MUST be an easier way, no?*

*Again, thanks for all the input - it REALLY has helped!!*

*Leah  *


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Tub should be screwed to the wall along the upper edge under the drywall.

If you're tiling the tub surround, you DONT want to use drywall, you NEED to use some type of cement board. If you're tiling the floor, you're likely going to need another layer of plywood to stiffen the floor, then cement board or ditra, then tile.

Vanity supply lines: Turn off the water in the house, cut the lines, put valves on them, (make sure the valves are turned off ), and turn the water back on. Or you can cap the lines so that the valves aren't in the way when you put the new vanity in, then turn the water off one more time after the vanity is in to install the valves. As you seem to be aware, having valves is very useful. 

Did you find the water source that has caused you all this entertainment yet?


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*I have not yet figured out the cause of the water damage. I assume it was from typical toilet/wax ring issues. However, when we bought the house, the seller "disclosed" that there was water damage from a leak on the garage ceiling & wall (immediately under the bathroom) and that it was "completely fixed". She didn't say what the leak was from, so I think I may track her down to ask her. I know I should as long as I have already torn the place apart! *

*I have the vanity almost out, I just have to go purchase a pipe wrench because I cannot loosen one of the nuts at the sink trap. *

*Next question...regarding taking out the bathtub: How do I go about disconnecting the plumbing when there is no access panel. Will I have to go to the garage underneath the tub and remove that sheetrock to get at it? WHEW!  *

*Leah*


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*OOF!*
*I finally got the plumbing disconnected in the plumbing to the two sinks in the vanity - Oh, the horror! I nearly passed out from the smell of the sewer gas. Then I had to empty the nasty bluish-clumpy-junk. I ran down the icy driveway and dumped it into the gutter. It must have been a sight. **Yikes, I don't wanna go back in there for a while, lol.*

*I stuffed rags into the pipes...correct, no?*

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Re: taking out the tub. See a previous post for the instructions on pulling the tub, your tub spout comes in above the tub or is it an older one that comes through holes in the tub itself? If the latter, then you'll have to remove the faucet etc. first, but that would be rare in my experience. You shouldn't have to remove any drywall in the garage to deal with the tub.


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## justdon (Nov 16, 2005)

Question for Bonus,
How will she disconnect the drain plumbing from under the tub without going thru garage ceiling??? I think I would cut as small of hole as I could get by with in that ceiling. Then make a permanent access panel, in said ceiling, removable, for any future work up there. Plus the next tub reinstall. She HAS to disconnect it below the "T" where the overflow runs back in, preferably at the goose neck trap. I have seen tubs with NO clips or screws to hold it to the wall, gravity on a heavy tub does it all. Is it loose at all Leah or feels like it is really tight to the wall???
Or is there an access panel for the faucets, on the opposite side of wall from handles, that goes clear down to the floor to get at drain plumbing? If you have bath all tore up anyway I think you want an access panel there too, or else you will next week, WINK<WINK!!! Make it pretty and decrotive and let it blend as well as you can. Even something you can caulk the seams to hide better while not needed and when used can easy be recaulked back again. like a couple large deco ceramic tiles than slide in a plastic runner side base.(Like plastic u-channels) happy remodeling Leah!!!


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Justdon, unscrew the drain strainer and the overflow trim and bracket and the tub is now free to move, then you have access to the plumbing below. I agree that having an access panel installed is desirable, but sometimes it's not feasible and it's certainly not common practice IMO.

"She HAS to disconnect it below the "T" where the overflow runs back in" Why? It might be that the new tub has a different configuration than the old (taller eg.) and the waste plumbing to the trap will have to be rebuilt, but I've replaced many a tub without changing anything other than seals.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*The tub's spout is above the tub, not built in, so that's good at least! Also, there is no access panel because the wall with the faucets backs up to a kitchen wall where there are cabinets and the oven. I wouldn't be able to put one in anywhere except from underneath in the garage ceiling.*

*The tub seems like it's secure, but I still can't find any clips where it's being held to the wall, so I assume that it's the plumbing that is keeping it snug. Can I cut the tub with a recip. saw? It's not cast iron or anything. *

*I called the previous homeowner a couple of days ago, and she told me the leakage was from the toilet. She said a plumber came over and fixed it. I am extremely surprised when she said she had no idea that the floor was rotted so badly. I feel better now that I called her, at least.*

*Leah*


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Update! I got the vanity ripped out tonight - what a great feeling! *

*Next issue - a small one, I think! For the life of me, I cannot get the screw out of the "lift and turn" drain. Any ideas?*

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

It's possible to cut the tub, but your project will all of a sudden become a lot less fun if you try. You might have tried some penetrating oil on the plug screw? Is it a slot screw or Allen wrench, or what? Worse comes to worst, you can just bring in a heavier hammer...(break it). Yeah the tub is likely held there by the plumbing and the habit of years.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Yep lift and screw drain screw. I had a hard time getting mine out also. I ended up just taking a duzall to it. What kind of bathtub fiberglass or cast iron. If cast iron. You could just take a sledgehammer and go at it pick up the pieces. I'm impressed your rocking.  I'm suprised some of the other guys haven't stop by to help out.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Whew! Sorry it's been a while...been working extra hours at my second part-time job. *

*For the life of me, I could not het the stupid screw out of the lift & turn drain. The screw was stripped, so I drilled holes through it until it popped off. Funny, though...since I apparently drilled a little sideways (doh!), part of the screw was still stuck to the side when it popped off. I swear it was super-glued in, ha. The next challenge was the drain itself - also "super-glued". I went and bought a drain wrench and got it out that way. The tub didn't have any clips holding it to the wall. Now, the newest issue to tackle: getting the tub OUT of the bathroom.*

*I thought it was cast iron, so I bought a sledgehammer and tried to bust it up last night. All I was able to accomplish was chipping of the porcelain-type coating. It's grey underneath and there was "give" when I hit that part of the tub...I assume this means the tub is enameled steel, right? It's really heavy for me to move.*

*Here's my question - is there any way to break up or cut this type of tub? As a very last resort, I can open the wall behind it that goes into the bedroom, but I really, really don't want to do that. *

*I have some phots of the progress at photos.yahoo.com/eby1972 if you care to look at them. There are pics of the tub, too. The link brings you to a bunch of albums, the one with the bathroom stuff is called BATHROOM REPAIR & REMODEL (go figure!). *

*Let me know your thoughts on the tub! You are all helping so much and I appreciate it!  *

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

OK, so you've freed the tub from the plumbing, yes? And the tub is not screwed to the wall. So the only thing stopping you from pulling it out is the drywall on the wall behind the toilet and the door jamb on the other end. Remove the door jamb and cut enough of the drywall away behind the toilet so that you can roll the tub into the doorway, (it should fit through the door on it's side) then drag it into the corridor and throw it down the stairs. 
I'm sure you're dealing with an enameled steel tub, you can cut them but it isn't easy or pleasant and if you merely cut it in half you still will have trouble getting it outta there. Way easier to do a little more drywall finishing later, which you're probably going to be doing anyway.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*I am unable to slide the tub out because the toilet's water shut off valve is in the way. Can I remove that easily somehow?*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

You can take that out but it would require shutting off the water, cutting the pipe below the floor, capping it temporarily (so that you could have water elsewhere in the house) pulling the tub and then replacing it when the new tub is in. See if you can lift/roll the tub out over the w.c. supply even if it requires removing more drywall.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*My brother-in-law came over on Saturday and was able to move the tub (thankfully he lifts weights every day!).*

*After the tub was moved, I ripped out some sheetrock in the tub surround and discovered a window frame. Wooo-hooo! I am excited about this because I had wanted to add a window for light, but figured it would be more than I could tackle myself. I assume that it was covered up when a previous owner put siding on. I'd like to have the window there again. Someone recetly told me that having a window in the bath surround, even it's vinyl, is a terrible idea. What are your thoughts? *

*Here's a pic of what it looks like:*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

If you were to get a professional tiler in there I would go for it, trying to seal such an item from constant driving rain (when the shower is running) is not a task for the faint of heart, and the potential for failure is great. I wouldn't do it with a vinyl enclosure at all. Just my opinion, you understand.
What's the exterior siding?
Did the rot extend beneath the tub? How does everything look under there?


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

It not advisable but can be done, vinyl would be the best bet here, steam and humidity will ruin a wood sill window over time.

You should first get rid of the that insulation and install unfaced or paper backed batts and cut slits in it to breath, then there are 2 methods that can be used here, the first would be to install a vapor barrier over the studs, then 1/2" cementboard over the studs and tight up to the new window, then tape and thinset all the seams with a good modified thinset, next day paint on a waterproofing membrane such as Redgard [sold at HD] with backerboard tape around the window seams and out 8".

You can also waterproof the entire walls with a membrane such as Redgard or a sheet membrane such as Kerdi, there are others as well, if this is done, do not install the vapor barrier behind the walls, the window sill should also have a slight pitch into the shower.

Hope this helps.


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## Zero Punch (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, you got the tub out now the chore of replacing it with new. I hope your going with fiberglass. 
You could look at glass block windows if light is all your concerned with and not ventalation, they work best in wet areas and are easiest to waterproof.
R&D is right on his recomendations for tile backer board and membrane. 

John


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*The floor underneath the tub looks like it was wet in the past because it's darker in color than the subfloor in other parts of the bathroom (does that make sense?). However, it appears to be stable and is not "springy" at all. Also, it didn't smell of mold like other parts of the floor did when they were removed. Do you think I should replace it?*

*I have always liked glass block, and will definitely consider it. Is it hard to install? *

*Leah*

*P.S. CONTINUED thanks for all your responses! *


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Oh, and fiberglass will be the material of my next bathtub for sure!*


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## Zero Punch (Nov 15, 2005)

The glass block units are no harder to install than any other type of window.


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

You can order glass block windows already pre-made.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Pre-made glass block windows? Sounds nifty to me! I'll look around on the net to see what styles are available (I'm girly like that). Window shop, if you will. * 

*Back to "stupid-question from Leah" time. Regarding the subfloor: Do I need to use the same type of wood product to replace the damaged parts that I removed? I have to replace the subfloor section and also layer above that. BTW...both layers are 1/2". I thought subfloors were usually thicker(?).*

*Also, do I need to leave a small gap between edges to allow for expansion or does that only apply when laying the finished product (like pergo, etc.)?*

*Leah*


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## Zero Punch (Nov 15, 2005)

Leah, you could replace the subflooring with like or equivalent 3/4 and 1/4. I would stay with what you have 1/2 and 1/2. You'll find that most homes are built to FHA minimum standards which is I think 3/4in subfloor, plywood or OSB T&G. Don't hold me to that it's just observation. I haven't seen less than 3/4 in. ever, though those are nominal dimensions. I would glue and screw the first layer to the joists the second layer you should avoid the seams falling atop the bottom layer seams. Since you have removed the tub and the vanity you may have to remove 6 ins. preferably 8 ins. of the top layer where it went under them so you can avoid placing seams directly over one another. It's best to get it as tight as possible your plywood manufactures would only call for 1/32 spacing. On top of this I would use 1/4 hardie board or duraroc if you plan on ceramic. If you plan on a warm floor installation, (eletric heat coils) I would follow the manufactures specs reguarding installation requirements.
I hope you arn't planning on pergo or another laminate flooring for your bath.

Have fun window shopping!

John


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

Exactly what do you have for a subfloor now and what do you plan on installing over it.


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

If you're putting tile down you are going to need more plywood than 1". I'd go with minimum 1-1/4". This will lead to a transition detail at the door, but can be dealt with. Remember you'll have the extra 1/4" plus the thickness of tile and thinset and perhaps cement board if used. If you're going with vinyl flooring then 1" is ample.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*The floor was removed from the area between the bathtub and the vainty (the toilet is in between the two). When I started this project, I didn't really have plans to take the tub out, but I changed my mind once I got into it more. It would have been so much easier to try and remove the tub if there was an actual floor to stand on! *

*Thanks for the info on floor thickness when it comes to tiling - I didn't know that I would need more than one inch floor base. I do plan on tiling. I was eventually going to replace the doors & trim anyhow, so I might as well do it at the same time. I recently saw a show where someone had pergo/laminate floors in her basement bathroom but they had to be ripped out for a couple of reasons...one being that the installer didn't leave enough space for expansion. The other, they said (I think), is because pergo/laminate floors shouldn't be installed in bathrooms due to the moisture factor. (Holmes on Homes - I love that show!)*

*Here's a picture of the floor before the bathtub was removed. It's probably hard to see in the photo, but there is a section of the top layer that's cut out above the subfloor. It extends about 10".*

*Leah*


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

Here's a vinyl window in a shower with Redgard used for waterproofing around it, forgot I had this.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Thanks for sharing the picture!  *


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Hi all - yet another question...do you know what type of places will take my old steel tub? Would it be a recycling place or would a scrap metal place take it?*

*Leah*


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## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

Scrap metal dealer. Weigh in. Weigh out. They might pay you a little bit per pound.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*THANKS! Do you happen to know if scrap metal places are generally drop-off places or can I arrange for someone to pick it up? **I was going to have a recycling place pick it up today, but I would have to pay them 30 bucks...and besides, the temperature is 5 below zero today with windchill of 30 below -- I didn't know if it would freeze to the ground overnight, lol!  (DANG IT'S COLD!)*

*I purchased 2x4's and plywood the other day and hope to start working on the subfloor this weekend. I actually have the whole weekend off! *

*Leah*


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

I place mine out by the curb on garbage day, when I return home from work, it's gone.

You'll probably pay more for gas to get to a scrap yard, then what you will get for it.


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## jml257psu (Feb 19, 2006)

*My bathroom subfloor is rotten too!*

Leah,

Thanks so much for sharing and for everyone's replies. I just purchased my first home in April 2005, I too am a self proclaimed girly-girl and because of my 15 year old "fixer-upper" have become a home improvement warrior too. I just finished remodeling my half bathroom downstairs in which I patched huge holes in the drywall, ripped up vinyl flooring and self installed ceramic tile and replaced everything. Surprisingly, I found it really easy to install ceramic tile and it looks awesome, so I'd reccomend you'd try installing tile in your bathroom if thats what you what. I mean I'm impressed by what you've done so far, tiling should be a breeze!  

Now that I have finished the half bath I am working on remodeling the master/full bath. When I purchased the house I knew that there was a soft spot in the floor between the toliet and the shower. The water damage came from the shower water dripping on the floor for 15 years. However I was horrified when I ripped a small section of 2 layers of vinyl flooring to find the floor underneath rotten all the way to the joists! When I ripped up the last layer of vinyl, the rotten plywood came up in along with it (in many flaky pieces) and I can see the pipes and everything. Here's the scary part, the rot continues a small portion underneath the corner of the tub!  I have recieved a couple of different opinions on the subject, some saying no matter how little the subfloor damage extends under the tub that I will need to rip out the entire tub to replace all the subfloor. Others say that if it's just a small patch that I would not need to rip out the tub to repair the small bit. I would rather not rip out the tub, as this is the only full bath that I have in the house and being a girly-girl would not take to going without a shower for too long.  

I can post some pictures of the damage if it would help.

Thanks!  
Jamie


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## R&D Tile (Feb 6, 2006)

Can you get to the damaged area from below and see how bad it is?, if just a small area, it will dry out, but you will have to rip up everything that was affected where the new tile is going, by installing new plywood, are you tiling the tub surround walls as well?, it can be done while still being able to use it.


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Hi Jamie - thanks for posting! I am hearing more & more horror stories about rotten floors in bathrooms. Luckily, I have a shower in the downstairs bathroom. *

*I wish there were classes for this kind of thing. The Home Depot just doesn't have classes that are this in-depth, and I don't exactly want to take carpentry classes at a tech school (or wherever)! Dang, I am thankful for the internet and all of the advice people on this site have offered. At the beginning of all this I had no clue about any type of home repair. My first "improvement" last September was changing the flush handle of a toilet, and look at how far I have come! I imagine that you are finding yourself in a similar situation. I started out with just wanting to replace the floor around the toilet, but decided that I might as well keep going as long as things were already being torn up. *

*I'd love to see your pictures if you wouldn't mind posting them. Also, how about pics of the tile?*  *I have fun looking at different tile places on the weekend. I will also be replacing tile on the entryway landing (split entry style house), downstairs bathroom (eventually), and also the tile around a woodstove on the lower level. I think I will go through shopping withdrawl once I decided on the actual tile for all of these places!  *

*Leah*


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## Wi mom (Feb 20, 2006)

You guys are awesome. I am in the middle of the same project. Mine is a bedroom bath. I decided to change the shower from a 36X36 to a 34X60. 

I am tackling the floor today. I have it all cut out, next step is to fasten my 2X4's to the joists.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! You guys are great for sharing your know-how!!

Kim


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Another question about the subfloor...*

*One of these days I will work less so I can get back to this project! *

*My next question is about adding the supporting 2x4's to the joists. The area in question is behind the toilet:*

*One of the joists that I need to work with is not exactly in the bathroom, it's underneath the room behind the bathroom (kitchen). It might be easiest to take a look at the pictures I am attaching. Hopefully you'll know what I mean. How do I get the support 2x4's in this area? Other advice is welcomed and appreciated since I have never done this before.*

*This may not make any sense, let me know if it doesn't and I'll try to explain it better!*

*THANKS!  *

*Leah*


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*SORRY - here are the pics for previous post*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Leah, how far back is the joist (under the wall) from the face of the wall? Less than an inch? more than an inch?
And can you get a current close-up photo of the area now that the tub is in the dumpster?


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Bonus-*

*Thanks for the reply. The joist is well more than an inch under that wall...I am at work so I can't say for sure, but I am guessing it's*
*4-6". I will get a better measurement tonight when I get home, and an updated photo.*

*Leah*


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## leahjane10 (Jan 2, 2006)

*Bonus - *

*I just went and measured the distance...it's exactly 5". Here are a few pictures, though it seems to be tough to capture what I mean on film!  *

*Leah*


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## Bonus (Aug 25, 2005)

Yeah, it is tough to get pics of these spots. The challenge here is to wind up with something to support your new subfloor with. This can be done several ways. you can screw and glue a piece of 2x4 or 6 to the joist that is under the wall, trying to support as much of it as possible with anything else under there that is structural (not plumbing!) so that you get enough surface sticking out from the wall to put your new ply on. ( You may have to cut the rough edge of the subfloor back a little further) Or you can clean out the stud cavity above (where the water supply and all that itchulation is) and then screw a support piece of plywood under the existing subfloor that in turn could support a new subfloor. (This stuff sure is hard to explain) It looks like you could even get a screw or two into the edge of the existing subfloor along the wall where you cut it out to help hold it up. Or some combination of the two.

Anybody else want to help? More ideas?

Tell me if that was totally unintelligble and I'll try my hand at a drawing, but no promises it'll be any clearer.


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## jml257psu (Feb 19, 2006)

*Pics of my damage*

Ok, enough travelling for work, I guess my boss doesn't understand that I have a bathroom to remodel!  

Ok, I finally had the chance to rip up the 2 layers of vinyl flooring and get a good look at the damage to the subfloor. It was as expected, rotten through to the joists near the corner (I could see a pipe!) and not rotten along the rest of the edge of the tub. I got down with my scraper to see how far the damage protrudes under the tub and it only seems like it's 2" or so. Hopefully that means I won't have to rip out the tub and shower at the gym for awhile! I am attempting to post the pics of the damage.

Thanks again for all of your help! I will also post some pics of my remodelled half bath (although I went with the less expensive Home Depot ceramic rather than something fancier).

Thanks again!
Jamie


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## justdon (Nov 16, 2005)

Leah,
Glad your still at this project!!!
Wish my daughters your age were half as ambitious as you are!!!
In general I would NEVER put any low window in your shower stall, no matter how well it was sealed in. It just doesnt mix with water.
How about one or two portal opening windows "above" the tile line??? Was thinking of one but then thought how much light and in -out venting it would be with both (in NICE weather).
Brings up other subject. Whats your exhaust vent in this bath?? Looks like the window when new would pass code(here) (window or power vent). Did they close in the window and NOT vent the bath?? And does the vent go ALL the way outside. I put, in remodeled baths now a timer on the vent fan. Otherwise the fan is always on which leads to always burnt out etc. Where energy is high anyway, no use wasting, blowing heat out all day. And fan lasts 10 times longer. Just click it on for 2-3 minutes or while showering for steam and it "remembers" alot better than humans to click back off. just a slick trick. AND if your bath doesnt have a vent fan all the way outside and you are getting permits for this you will end up with one anyway!!!Before and after inspection. if not permitted, you enjoy the right way of doing it. But with opening hex portal windows may not be required. Just a thought.
Congrads on what you have done, your a great trooper in MY book!!!
HTH--d--


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## Wi mom (Feb 20, 2006)

*Next Step*

I've finally completed the 1/2" subfloor patch. Now I am on to the 5/8" layer. My bath is 5X8. Do I need to run the plywood in the opposite direction of the patch I have already put in (it was 5X3)?

I am putting in a Swanstone shower base and want to tile the shower walls and the floor. Do I out cement board over the entire 5X8 section or just the portion of the floor that is not under the shower base?

Thanks again guys!!


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## justdon (Nov 16, 2005)

Wi Mom,
This is geting so confusing with three projects on an active thread. You may want to start your own thread.
I didnt quite understand what you were asking in your last one. I dont think the 5/8 plywood has to be a different dirrection, JUST staggered seams so one doesnt fall right over other below. Offset them 16 or 32" either way and lengthwise too. 
Then you are putting down cement board on top of all that? And then what, I lost track, ceramic tile??? Putting it under shower, hmmm I am not sure of that one. I defer to other opinions on that, but I wouldnt see a problem with doing it either way, whichever comes out better for you and makes shower setting on the most even level base. I could be wrong on that part. Mostly have to envision what it will look like with cement board and then tile 'up to' it vs board under neath, tile on top. And if it alters any connections.
My 2 cents(pretax), --d--


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## sharisavage (Jun 20, 2005)

*Leah, my heroine*

Leah, you rock. I'm a novice remodeler (on my 2nd bathroom and the guys in this forum got me through the first one). Doesn't it feel great to do this yourself? Besides, guys at the hardware store dig it. You go girl!


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

*You go girl........!!!*

Leah, sounds like you are a good worker. Keep it up and in the end you will be satisified.

I would not recommend a window in a shower. You may want to put in a solar tube. It is a smaller version of a sky light. 

Regarding the tile. You may also want to try a new style tile that is like the laminate wood floor that they make now that snap/click together. I do not believe that you have to have a 1.25" thick floor for this click together ceramic 'look' tile (ask the clerk at the store) because it is not real ceramic tile. When you visit your home improvement store next time just look for it near the laminate wood flooring. If you were going to install the real ceramic tile then the floor has to be rigid and not flex to keep the tiles from cracking and the grout joints from cracking/failing.


You may have been able to have the prior owner pay for the repair of this job. If the problem existed before you purchased the house and the prior owner just covered up the problem then they could be liable for the repairs. Was the floor in the bathroom new? If the floor in the bathroom was new and installed by the prior owner then the owner should have known about the problem and should have made the new buyer aware of the damage to the floor.


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

Any update?


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

Has the floor been put in yet?


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## KenTheHandyMan (Sep 1, 2005)

I don't know what your status is now, but I'm proud of you so far.


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## msjay2u (Aug 21, 2006)

*bathtub update*

Hi Leah,
I have to admire any female that can tackle this job. I would be kind of scared to cut the floor out because of the beams but my hats off to you..inspiration for me. Now my question is did you fix the floor and what does the finished product look like. I am interested in knowing.
Thanks and have a wonderul handy day!
Jay


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

work in progress:thumbup:


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