# Issues with Paint Sample color and Gallon Color - need advice



## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

My wife and I are getting two rooms painted a color called "Tidewater" from Sherwin-Williams Link. We liked it because out of the 10 samples we looked at this was not super bright and still had some blue green to it.

I went into Sherwin Williams and gave them the quart paint sample we bought from them earlier and said "Can we get 3 gallon of this Tidewater color". We had painters coming Monday morning and this was Sunday afternoon.

Well I got the paint and said in the store that it looked more green than the sample and they said it will go darker after it dries. They are the experts. So i got the paint home and the next day the painters painted the two rooms and I said it was light to them and they also said it will go darker when it dries. Well here we are Tuesday morning, it is dry and it is way lighter and greener than we wanted and what the sample looked like on the wall. I painted the sample 4'x4' to get a good idea.

It looks more like this color on the walls. Link. I am not happy and HATE the color.

What are my options, we spent $500 for these guys to do the work and the color does not look like the sample of Tidewater that we wanted. I am very frustrated.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: Should say that we got the Super Paint in Eggshell Satin Extra White and the sample was also Eggshell Satin in the extra white base.


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## ric knows paint (Oct 26, 2011)

7 VII 7 said:


> My wife and I are getting two rooms painted a color called "Tidewater" from Sherwin-Williams Link. We liked it because out of the 10 samples we looked at this was not super bright and still had some blue green to it.
> 
> I went into Sherwin Williams and gave them the quart paint sample we bought from them earlier and said "Can we get 3 gallon of this Tidewater color". We had painters coming Monday morning and this was Sunday afternoon.
> 
> ...


Hiya 7s...

Nobody likes to hear this after a problem has come up, but you should've had SW dry a sample against your chosen color chip at the time of purchase - especially since you had mentioned it didn't look right. The SW guy was either trying to send you on your way, or doesn't know his product very well if he's telling you "...it'll go darker after it dries.."

The painters simply applied what you gave them. If there was an issue with the color, you/they should've stopped the painting until the color issue was resolved. While I don't agree with what the painter told you, painters typically work a reasonably tight schedule - if during the application, of a product/color *they did not provide*, having them stop painting until such time that you get this issue resolved means a loss of productivity to them resulting in increased expenses - or lost wages and possibly scheduling conflicts for your, and subsequent, projects. How do they make up those expenses or losses?

Not to defend or blame the painters - and not yet so quick to blame the SW guys...unless you work with color everyday, it is really difficult to imagine color on a whole scale basis from a tiny paint sample. Painting a square on the wall does provide a better appreciation of that particular color's attributes, but is still not wholly affected or influenced by all the surrounding environment. In other words, some of what you may have had in mind, was not possible to achieve with the color you chose....possibly. 

If that's not the case, there's a pretty easy fix to this dilemma. Take a finger sample of the product you bought and dry it against the actual color chip you chose. If it matches the chip, I'm afraid you may not have had a realistic expectation of that color on a larger basis. If it doesn't match the chip, the SW guys may have a little explaining to do, and to some degree, be held responsible for the mess they participated in (responsible to the extent of replacing product)...Unfortunately, I think you'd kinda be on your own for the labor expenses of the painters.

There's so much confusion about whether paint dries lighter or darker - versus that of whether a color _appears_ lighter or darker after it dries...and there is no such physical or scientific law that makes any type of allowance for such color anomalies. A very general rule of thumb is light colors _may_ appear lighter than expected, and dark colors _may _appear a little more intense than expected - but so much depends on the amount of lighting and the surrounding environment in a room.

Here's how latex paint actually dries...Paint chips are representations of color and not actual paint, therefore there may always be a slight variance of color from the chip to actual paint - very slight. Quality paints (and I'll throw Super Paint in that category) dry down to the color. In other words, they may appear slightly lighter in color then dry down a shade or so. Usually the amount they change from wet to dry is relatively insignificant. Lower quality paints dry up to the color - again in other words, they go on a little to a lot darker (depending on how low of a quality we're talking here), then dry up several shades to kind of match the color chosen. 

With the 2 illustrations given above, the point is it doesn't matter how the paint dries - it'll either dry up or down to the color (within the allowable _slight _variance), or it's mixed wrong - plain and simple. If that's the case, the fault lies with SW and not the painters - and as mentioned before, they should make good on the paint purchased. Good luck.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

I know the painters are not to blame, they just got the product and painted.

I am going to SW later today. I already talked with a manager and he seemed concerned and said to bring in the sample we liked and then one of the three gallons we purchased. He was goign to discuss options.

What sucks is I think they will only work with me on teh gallons I bought, I might be crud out of luck when it comes to the labor, which I hope is not the case.

I will get them to dry a sample of the gallon paint on a chip.

I will keep everyone informed.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Anxious to see what they say but a couple things in your post caught my attention.

1. You said you had them mix a quart and you brought it in to be sure they matched it and not just to the paint chip? Seems it will be hard for them to suggest they did not goof if this is the case. 

2. Did they mix the color you do not like in a factory white and not a tint base? That could easily be the source of your troubles and what is causing the difference in color. 

Hopefully the painters can help you out a bit with the labor although they really are not to blame in this.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

sdsester said:


> Anxious to see what they say but a couple things in your post caught my attention.
> 
> 1. You said you had them mix a quart and you brought it in to be sure they matched it and not just to the paint chip? Seems it will be hard for them to suggest they did not goof if this is the case.
> 
> ...


So I just got back. I came in a talked with the manager and the other associate there was one of the ladies that was there when I got the painted tinted. I brought in the quart sample and then the gallon and said something does not match up. He looks at both of them and says.. "Well, the quart you have is TradeWind and the gallon is Tidewater"... I said how did that happen. And he asked me what I bought in for the guy to match and I said this quart of Tradewind. He then sighed and said. We matched the wrong color for you. I got extremely frustrated, not with him just the situation. He said we can give you a free gallon and I said, the issue is that its 3 gallons and I spend a lot of money for someone to paint it on my walls which is already done.

He sighed again and said that they messed up. He asked why I did not notice it soon and and I said I did when I got the paint and the young lady said she remembered me asking about why the numbers and color was different.

Well long story short (too late) they have me 3 gallons in the correct color and sample that I bought in and called their regional manager to get back to me about getting someone to come out and do the labor. I am not sure if they will do that but man I am frustrated. I really dont want to shell out $500 to get that done again. I hope they come through since they knew and admitted it was their fault.

I think some of the confusion also came when I came in and told the guy when tinting the paint that we decided NOT to go with Tidewater and maybe he heard that, but the fact of the matter is I bought in the sample quart that we wanted and he read it and looked at it and he did not match it.


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## bova80 (Feb 18, 2013)

but in your first post you said you wanted TideWater so I'm confused.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

bova80 said:


> but in your first post you said you wanted TideWater so I'm confused.


When we did the samples on our walls we liked Tidewater but then when we found TradesWind we liked that better. So that is what i said to him when we got the paint tinted. I realized before after I just got back from the SW that we liked the wrong color. The only thing that saved us is the fact that I bought in the sample of TradeWind and not Tidewater.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I am truly sorry this happened to you and I understand your frustration. But I must say I am impressed and happy to hear your store is at least working with you to help resolve the matter. This is one of the reasons we preach to people to go to the real paint stores. I mean it's a fact of life "mistakes happen" and that is not a sin. It is when you don't do anything about it. I feel this people are trying to help you and I know you don't want to hear it but I think you are already some what ahead of what you would be if you were dealing with a big box store. And please let us know the final out come.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> I am truly sorry this happened to you and I understand your frustration. But I must say I am impressed and happy to hear your store is at least working with you to help resolve the matter. This is one of the reasons we preach to people to go to the real paint stores. I mean it's a fact of life "mistakes happen" and that is not a sin. It is when you don't do anything about it. I feel this people are trying to help you and I know you don't want to hear it but I think you are already some what ahead of what you would be if you were dealing with a big box store. And please let us know the final out come.


They were really cool. The young lady that was working when I got the pain toned and then today said she was surprised how cool I was acting and I told her that I got my yelling out on the painters the day before (unrelated to paint color and a whole different story about the painters).

I really hope they pay to or help to get the rooms painted with the new paint. I would do it but I have a infant and work full time and I am in school part time.

I will keep everyone updated.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

good luck, you will need it.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Unfortunately, no paintstore is going to pay for the labor to redo the paintjob.........just ain't gonna happen. Really, the best they can do is what they are doing........mix you some paint in the RIGHT color & not charge you for it.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

7 VII 7 said:


> He sighed again and said that they messed up. He asked why I did not notice it soon and and I said I did when I got the paint and the young lady said _she remembered me asking about why the numbers and color was different._


This point right here is the only thing needed out of all this page of text. This is the smoking gun. They screwed up, yes, but you caught it before the paint was applied, before you even left the store. It doesn't take an expert to to realize different numbers and color, don't sell yourself short. You should have been more forceful in getting an answer. If you can't be a pr!ck when you need to be, you're going to have trouble. You're too nice.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

jsheridan said:


> This point right here is the only thing needed out of all this page of text. This is the smoking gun. They screwed up, yes, but you caught it before the paint was applied, before you even left the store. It doesn't take an expert to to realize different numbers and color, don't sell yourself short. You should have been more forceful in getting an answer. If you can't be a pr!ck when you need to be, you're going to have trouble. You're too nice.


Well I asked about the different numbers and color and he said that is what happens when you go from a quart to a gallon. I am not a painter, I am not an expert so I have to take his word for it right? I made it a point to give him the quart sample and he had it and read it right in front of the computer as he was entering things in. The young lady was also there watching and working with him and me on it. I am not going to tell a guy who works at a paint store that deals with this stuff everyday that he is wrong.

What also helps is that the young lady confirmed everything with the manager.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Look. Lots went wrong here and the good news seems to be that all are trying to accept at least some degree of culpability in it all.

There is no doubt the paint store mixed the wrong color and they have stepped up to the plate and fixed the error with new paint, or at least they will when they kick in the additional two gallons. But, I must admit the more this story unfolded the more confused I got about what color was what and what the guy behind the counter thought he was being asked to mix. 

I understand the OP is not a paint pro also and cut him some slack in wanting to believe those who told him the paint would dry darker. Paint usually does dry a bit darker than what it looks like wet or on a tiny 1x1 or 2x2 chip---I always told people to plan on the room looking more like the next darker choice on the fan card. But the painters, if handed chips or samples from the painted quart should have noticed after the first gallon dried something was wrong? I understand many do not want to take any responsibility for what color they paint but come on, if you notice something wacked you have an obligation to step in and say so. Perhaps in this case they were looking at the paint on the wall against the original chip and not the original quart though. They too may have been confused. I was not there so can only guess what was going on. 

And finally, the OP obviously saw the paint was in fact not drying as "darker" as he expected. Even if it was exactly what he ordered but not what he wanted he should have brought a screaching halt to the work after the first half gallon got applied and not after three! Room hues can have hue memory that makes it difficult to judge a new color in a room but this usually does not apply to the value of the color in a room---its tint or shade of the hue. 

Hopefully this works out for everybody as it should with but reasonable resentment. We all hate stories like this. They are not typical though and again, some communication and assertiveness could have fixed this before it raged out of control. I guess that is the lesson for others in this. 

And when having the store mix the paint? Just circle the only chip that matters or bring in the only sample you want matched. Throw the extras away as you do not need them anymore and in this case the seem to have led to an honest mistake that just rippled to far into the painting process.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

sdsester said:


> Look. Lots went wrong here and the good news seems to be that all are trying to accept at least some degree of culpability in it all.
> 
> There is no doubt the paint store mixed the wrong color and they have stepped up to the plate and fixed the error with new paint, or at least they will when they kick in the additional two gallons. But, I must admit the more this story unfolded the more confused I got about what color was what and what the guy behind the counter thought he was being asked to mix.
> 
> ...


I will make it less confusing. We got a lot of samples from the store. One of them was Tidewater and one was TradeWind. I came in with the TradeWind sample quart saying this is what I want (gave to him) and we decided not to go with Tidewater.

The painters painted the gallons that I gave them. I was working and was not there for the start of the painting just the end. I trusted the guys there were experts and doing the work. If I painted it myself it would have been brought to a halt. Live and learn


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

7 VII 7 said:


> I came in with the TradeWind sample quart saying this is what I want (gave to him) and we decided not to go with Tidewater.


I guess what I am saying is only talking about what you wanted, and not what you didn't want, might have saved some confusion. If Tidewater was irrelevant, why even bring it up?

I've seen ladies (especially) standing at paint counters with oodles of paint chips in one hand and little rat dogs in the other rattling on about paint chip names and expecting the poor soul behind the counter to sort out what they want to the point all he/she wants is one through the head. At the end of it all, only one chip name and number is relevant. Why not just focus on that?

Not saying it was your fault in any way though. The paint store clearly goofed. Cricumstances snowballed.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

sdsester said:


> I guess what I am saying is only talking about what you wanted, and not what you didn't want, might have saved some confusion. If Tidewater was irrelevant, why even bring it up?
> 
> I've seen ladies (especially) standing at paint counters with oodles of paint chips in one hand and little rat dogs in the other rattling on about paint chip names and expecting the poor soul behind the counter to sort out what they want to the point all he/she wants is one through the head. At the end of it all, only one chip name and number is relevant. Why not just focus on that?
> 
> Not saying it was your fault in any way though. The paint store clearly goofed. Cricumstances snowballed.


I agree, maybe I was just rambling since I got 3 hours of sleep the night before with our new kid. That is why I bought in the sample quart to hand him and show him what we wanted. The other quart sample (we picked two colors) I handed him was fine and matched great.


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## sore thumb (Mar 31, 2013)

Gymschu said:


> Unfortunately, no paintstore is going to pay for the labor to redo the paintjob.........just ain't gonna happen. Really, the best they can do is what they are doing........mix you some paint in the RIGHT color & not charge you for it.


Our homebuilder had their painters use "Great Southwest" brand paint. The painters didn't prime over the slighly textured sheetrock and being the paint was so thin our walls and ceilings were almost semi-transparent. After complaining the interior was sprayed again. This time we had an effect calling ghosting. When we had the homebuilder come to see for themselves we were told "Just don't look at the ceilings or walls in bright light.". This infuriated me so I took matters into my own hands. It did not take long to discover that "Great Southwest" was wholly owned by Sherwin Williams. Long story short I called Sherwin Williams corporation and was soon contacted in person by a SW Regional Representative. The SW Rep promised to solve the problem once and for all. SW made the builder provide their painters and SW provided their then best quality interior paint. When the SW Rep told the painters they would roll and brush instead of spraying the painters stated they did not know how to paint that way. The SW Rep called their bluff so the painters acknowledged they had lied. It took the painters 16 straight hours to repaint the interior of our two story home. The SW Rep was there with them throughout. So you see when the customer doesn't give in to pressure situations can be put right.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

sore thumb said:


> Our homebuilder had their painters use "Great Southwest" brand paint. The painters didn't prime over the slighly textured sheetrock and being the paint was so thin our walls and ceilings were almost semi-transparent. After complaining the interior was sprayed again. This time we had an effect calling ghosting. When we had the homebuilder come to see for themselves we were told "Just don't look at the ceilings or walls in bright light.". This infuriated me so I took matters into my own hands. It did not take long to discover that "Great Southwest" was wholly owned by Sherwin Williams. Long story short I called Sherwin Williams corporation and was soon contacted in person by a SW Regional Representative. The SW Rep promised to solve the problem once and for all. SW made the builder provide their painters and SW provided their then best quality interior paint. When the SW Rep told the painters they would roll and brush instead of spraying the painters stated they did not know how to paint that way. The SW Rep called their bluff so the painters acknowledged they had lied. It took the painters 16 straight hours to repaint the interior of our two story home. The SW Rep was there with them throughout. So you see when the customer doesn't give in to pressure situations can be put right.


To all the people out there who get tired of us preaching about real paint stores please read this and try to imagine the same thing happening with a big box store. To the poster I'm sorry this happen to you but thank you so much for posting your story. I think is a great story about a big company that cares about their customers and their name. After reading this it kinda makes sense to spend a few bucks more to get not only good paint but good service. And this is not only SW but Ben Moore and the other large paint co.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> To all the people out there who get tired of us preaching about real paint stores please read this and try to imagine the same thing happening with a big box store. To the poster I'm sorry this happen to you but thank you so much for posting your story. I think is a great story about a big company that cares about their customers and their name. After reading this it kinda makes sense to spend a few bucks more to get not only good paint but good service. And this is not only SW but Ben Moore and the other large paint co.


Got a call from SW this morning. They offered $250 for labor (they already gave me the paint) to get the two rooms painted. I said I am not sure that will cover the cost of the labor. They said that is fine and for me to get an estimate/invoice and send it their way and they will help out. I am really surprised and pleased I dont have to pay for it or all of it. :thumbup:


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

It is the way customer service should be and costs them little to probably gain you as a long time customer and have you relate the overall experience, in spite of the temporary anguish, favorably to others. It would have cost them much more to have you disgruntled.

I am pleased it worked out for you. I hope your painters are not so busy they cannot get to the job. Good painters around here seem to be booked through the summer and into the fall in most cases. And with more interior work than is usual for this time of year.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

sdsester said:


> It is the way customer service should be and costs them little to probably gain you as a long time customer and have you relate the overall experience, in spite of the temporary anguish, favorably to others. It would have cost them much more to have you disgruntled.
> 
> I am pleased it worked out for you. I hope your painters are not so busy they cannot get to the job. Good painters around here seem to be booked through the summer and into the fall in most cases. And with more interior work than is usual for this time of year.


I agree. We are going to get the ext of our house painted next year and Sherwin-Williams was an option next to Ben Moore. I hope painters can come out soon otherwise we will have our furniture in other rooms for the next couple weeks.


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## 7 VII 7 (Aug 3, 2012)

Just a follow up. Painters are here now painting with the correct paint from Sherwin Williams. I was at the store yesterday signing the customer agreement for the $400 check they will be sending me.

So far so good, the paint looks SOOO much better and I am home today to see it. I am so glad this worked out!

Thank you everyone for the help! :thumbup:


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