# Help: Installing Faux stone over interior concrete surface



## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

Hello.

Just purchased about 30 plus sq ft of individual faux stones that I want to put over a masonary wall (cinder block concrete block) in my basement that we are refinishing. The area is about 51 inches wide by 82 inches tall and like I mentioned, the surface is just small concrete block area that we want to spice up. The faux stone is the no grout variety that you stack on top of each...so there is no grouting involved.

My questions are:

Can I just mortar the light faux stone right to the block working my way from the bottom up ( or is top to bottom better?)? or is it recommended to tack up a metal lath and do a scratch coat. Reason I am asking is that I have heard conflicting responses in just mortoring them up right to the wall versus prepping a wall with metal lath and scratch coat??

Thanks


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

metal lathe and scratch coats are used for heavier stones. These can most likely be "glued" with mortar working from the bottom up. Run a few rows at a time and let dry. do not attempt placing too many on top of each other at one time.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

As long as the block wall isn't painted, the stone will stick great. I would recommend starting at the top & working your way down so mortar droppings don't smear your work below. I would also consider a colored mortar somewhat close to your stone, as grouting can get messy for newbs, & mortar smears won't be as obvious. Good Luck. :thumbup:


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

Use thinset to set them, and unlike most faux stone, this particular one should be laid from the bootm up.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys. This will be the weekend project. I will probaly start from the bottom up as well as that is what I have been hearing more consistently, though to be honest , it makes sense to me to go top to bottom due to mortar drippings..any reasoning why one is preferred over the other for this particular faux stone?

Also, any tips on laying the faux stone when it comes to the edges since I am sure I will need to make cuts etc to get it all to fit nicely. I want to avoid too many little cut stones to fill in the edges..know what I mean...

I am sure when the stones arrive their will be directions, but thought I would ask here first..

Thanks


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't no how I didn't notice you were using a stackstone/no grout!? I must be blind. Either way, you can lay from the bottom, too. I cant say I've ever layed these stone in thinset, but maybe TS can elaborate why. I would still tint whatever you use to stick them, as it hard to remove any excess between this application, & you dont want gray block sticking thru either. When it comes to cutting, you can use a 4" diamond wheel in a grinder as deep as you can, snap the rest off. I useally try to pick a thinner (depth) stone to cut, & place against a deeper stone. Take your colored mortar/thinset & smear over cut end to help camoflauge.


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

Thinset has much better adhesion. For this (all, really), application, the stone should be 100% back-buttered. That is the thinset should be applied to the back of the stone, not the wall surface. As a rule, if the stacked stone is dark, use gray, if light use white.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

*Here are some updates*

OK I am back:

I got my stones today here is the exact name on the box

Manufactuer: Lone Star Stone
Type: Architectural Stone Veneer; Cordova Ledgestone ( see link)
http://www.lonestarstone.com/ledge/cordova.html

I went on the website and DL 'dthe installation PDF: 
http://www.lonestarstone.com/pdf/LoneStarsingle.pdf

After a quick glace, it seems quite complicated, it seems that they recommend the metal lathe etc? and I was thinking that I could pop these right to the cinderblock wall without any prep to the wall. I must admit the stones to have some weight to them, I think about 8-10 lbs per square foot? friggin boxes were heavy

Thoughts guys

P.S. I did call the customer service line and left a message with a rep to call em back. Again, thought I would ask here first


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## Bob Mariani (Dec 1, 2008)

cips said:


> OK I am back:
> 
> I got my stones today here is the exact name on the box
> 
> ...


The lathe is the way to go if they have some weight and that is their directions.


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## NJ Brickie (Mar 4, 2009)

I would agree with TS. Thinset all the way. If the wall is pretty clean with no paint I would do exactly like TS said. No wire and butter the back of the stones. This type of stone you would want to start at the bottom. As far as the edges go, Did you order any corner stone? If the edge will be exposed you will need corner stone to have a finished edge. If not maybe you can trim around the area to hide the edge.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks again for the replies...

Well, the Lone Star Stone customer service/install guy gave me a call back right away. Like TS and Mariani originally recommended, he said if the concrete wall is clean and free of defects and agents, just butter them up real good and pop them in place. I also read the install PDF on the site more thoroughly versus my quick glance :wink: and under "Surface Preparation" for clean and untreated concrete, it says no further prep needed. It does say apply scratch coat as needed, but the tech guy said a scratch coat is not really needed. He did say laying them either bottom to top or top to bottom was fine either way, he kind lead toward the top to bottom just due to the less likely hood of drippings getting on the stone. NJ Brickie: I did not get corner stones as the concrete wall is kinda depressed into the wall, so no right angle edges etc..I should be able to just butt them up with some cutting here and there of course.

One more question ( Sorry, true amateur here )

According to the install PDF for Mortar components, it says 1 part type N or S masonry cement with 2-3 parts masonry sand or 1 part portland with 1 part lime and 5-7 parts sand. It also says for Dry Stacking ( which is what this stone is ) it recommends to add latex modifier or bonding agent to above mixes. 

I have in my garage a couple left over 50lb bags of Laticrete Grey Multi purpose 253 Gold thin-set Mortar (no joke, the name is that long) which I used about a year and 1/2 ago when I tiled the basement. I did not see any reference to type N or S...you guys think I can use this stuff..I read the directions on the bag and it did did say can be used stone along with tiles etc..


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

Exactly advantage what will lathing provide? Nothing at all is the correct answer. Over clean concrete or masonry, thinset them and go. If you are concerned with warranty issues, read the stupid warranty. It provides NO remedies for adhesion issues under any circumstance.

I have sold 10s of thousands of Sq Ft of Faux stone for, and applied 1000s in exactly the manner I describe.


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

If the thinset you have is not lumpy, use it.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

TS- Word Up :thumbsup:

When I used the thin-set for my floor tiles. It mixed up nice & smooth with hardly any lumps. The mixing drill bit came in handy..best $20 bucks I ever spent on a tool. Worked like a charm and saved a lot of manual work. I must admit, I kinda eyeball the measurements when adding mortar and water ( prob not the best thing to do)..I make sure it is not to watery or too thick..I go for a somewhat peanut butter consistency, maybe a bit thicker, that is easy to spread but holds it's shape...

Well..looks like I may be in good shape..just gotta buy a masonary blade for cuts and a new trowel and I thinik I am good to go.

T.S. Should I forget about adding a bonding agent?


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

It already has bonding agents in it. For wall application, mix it a little drier than for tile.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

Excellent :thumbsup:

Thanks again...Ok..I think that will conclude my endless questions.

Thanks all for the feedback..def learned some new stuff...

Peace


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

TS...after I replied to your post, I got a email from the Lone Star Stone company stating

"I prefer the type n it has a little bit more workability. Thinset is primarily used for tile applications i wouldnt use it."


I know you prefer the thin-set..and I gave them the prep surface, so they know it is a clean concrete surface. Just wondering...then again you said you have used thin-set many times with great success. Plus the Thin-Set bag did mention that could be used for stones..so maybe I am overthinking


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## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

For jointed stone, Type N is OK. The mortar has more body, and done correctly, the joints provide a key to help hold the stones in place. On stacked stone, there is no place for excess mortar to "squeeze out", and no keying action from the joint, so the excess "body" is not needed. Type N is a compressive strength designation (750 PSI). As a rule, bond strength (The primary property of the mortar that matters for faux stone) increases with the compressive strength of the mortar. That is why most manufacturers recommend Type S (1800 PSI). Thinset is overkill for most applications, it is more expensive, and can make a one step process into a 2 step process (for jointed stones). I prefer it none the less.


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

*Done*

Walaaaa ! :thumbsup:

Def worth it...really added a nice look to the basement.

Thanks for all the tips fellas. Wasn't that bad to do..a few hiccups, but I am pleased with the result.


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## straud13 (May 27, 2009)

Nice one! Did you end up using the metal lath or just the thinset? If thinset which of the two types did you end up going with? Hows it looking a month later? Anything fall off?


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## cips (Apr 5, 2009)

Sorry for the late reply. It's been a few weeks since I checked the forum.

To answer your question:

I used Faux stone veneer and just put them up directly on the masonary wall using thinset as mentioned in this thread by some of the forum members. No metal lathe/scratch coat. Just buttered up the stones and popped them in. To be honest, it was quite an easy project, just took some time putting them up as I had cuts to do and played witht he pattern a few times. Nothing has fallen off or is loose. These stones were the dry stack variety, so grout application was not applicable.

I highly recommend faux stone to dress up a wall.

The thinset I used was Laticrete Grey Multi purpose 253 Gold thin-set Mortar. I had left over bags from my floor tile projects in the past, so I just used that


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## themusselshell (Dec 28, 2009)

A little architectural stone installation info from a carpenter/GC.

First, all you need is a masonry surface to apply the stone to. If you have a cmu block wall then you don't need a scratch coat or lathe plus scratch coat. If you have anything else, i.e. sheetrock, plywood, or other non-masonry then you wil have to apply a 15 lb felt paper vapor barrier, then nail diamond lathe 6" OC,making sure the galvanized roofing nails penetrate the studs at least one inch, then scratch coat with pre-mixed veneer stone mortar. The stucco coat should be raked or scratched after it is floated so that the mortared stone can key into the stucco coat.

To install the stone you will need a 3/8 pointing tool, a 1/2 pointing tool, a small pointed trowel, a large pointed trowel, a stiff masonry brush, a grout bag (if you are grouting), an angle grinder outfitted with a 4" masonry wheel, and the proper concrete mixing equipment.

Always work from the top down. Faux stone is hard to clean and mortar gets everywhere. Mix either with redi-mix veneer stone mortar or mix your own portland or type N with the appropriate amounts of sand and lime (if applicable). If you are using a pre-mixed mortar it is important to mix in some portland cement with the mix to increase tackiness and adhesion.

Make as few cuts as possible and try not to show the cut. Faux stone cuts well and can be shaped with a masons hammer. For a dry stack I like to use my pointing tool to pack the mortar around the stone once I have stuck it to the wall. If the wall is to be grouted then this is not as necessary.

And remember, when you are installing your nose is 6 inches from your work. Be sure to step away frequently to admire your progress, and check for inconsistencies. And one more thing... USE A LEVEL!


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