# How can I fix the rotten T-111 above shingles and under gutter?



## Mark Patterson (Dec 22, 2013)

I have rotten T-111 siding over the roof (see picture) and under a gutter. I don't want to replace two entire sheets of T-111; that would be really expensive. Any ideas on how to repair?
Thanks.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

There are 2 separate issues there,the first and most important is the lack of a ''kick out'' diverter right where the roof starts.It's vital that water that the step flashing is diverting exits before it gets behind the wall below

Along the roof line a composite board or pvc can be installed,after cutting and flashing,I would make it removable to make roof work easier in the future.


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## Mark Patterson (Dec 22, 2013)

*I don't think there's water in the wall.*

I'm trying to prevent water from getting into the wall. Are you suggesting that I put some trim on top of the siding above the roof? Also, what can I do about the rotten T-111 under the gutter.

Thanks for responding.

Mark


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

What Tom is saying is to cut out all of the rot up the roof line, say for example 6 1/2" and then replace that siding with a trim board.
The roof to wall flashing should look like this. 










When your done it will look similar to this.










Also notice how the siding/trim is held up off of the roof and you can see the flashing. This is an important detail so the water can shed properly.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Also that gutter never should have been installed tight to the wall like that.
That's a sure way to trap water and rot out the wall.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I'd add another flashing over the new board, holding the T1 up 1/4-5/8" above that for water/drainage, not caulk the joint as pictured. I think you would be trapping the moisture behind the siding, forcing it to wet the house wrap and eventually leak there. APA recommends sealing the newly cut end grain or a compatible waterproof coating if staining.

Gary


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Like this.

http://www.plasticomponents.com/products.asp?CatId=7&SubCatId=104


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

T111 expensive? Actually it's about the least expensive siding product on the market.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

More like this, Joe; http://www.homedepot.com/p/Construc...n-x-2-In-x-10-Ft-Galvanized-SZB34G/202221083#

Gary


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## Mark Patterson (Dec 22, 2013)

*I don't tryst anyone to replace both sheets of T111.*

To replace both sheets of T111, someone would have to remove the window frames (if they come off) and take off the trim boards and then cut both new pieces exactly right, then somehow slide them into place so they dovetail with the other sheets. I don't even know if that's possible.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Mark, the answers are for just cutting enough siding off the bottom of the sheets where it meets the roof- to add some trim board with a gap under it and a small gap over the trim to the existing (but now shorter in length) siding. Pull the 1x2 (horiz. trim covering z-metal flashing), add wood plates on the roof to set saw depth and height required- do not remove the step flashing in the roofing courses, add the top flashing starting at the top of roof to lap each flash piece 6" for water prevention, add the new trim board after using sticky window flash behind board first- bottom edge flush with bottom of board.

Gary
PS. I have replaced many sheets after house/apts. were sided, only problem is texture/groove/thickness match.


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## Mark Patterson (Dec 22, 2013)

*Since the wood over and under the gutter is probably rotten...*

Maybe I should have both sheets of T-111 replaced. Is that practical, or would the average contractor have a hard time doing it right (making sure everything was waterproof and the vertical cuts matched, etc.)?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Mark Patterson said:


> Maybe I should have both sheets of T-111 replaced.


looks to me that you don't understand the proper solution that has been given.


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## Mark Patterson (Dec 22, 2013)

I understand that I can put on a patch (a piece of trim) that I would flash at the top with a backsplash to keep the water away from the wall. Also, the trim would need flashing under it. If the rot is more extensive that just at the top of the roof, though, I might have to replace entire sheets.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

If I were the contractor doing this job, I would simply make a template out of the old pieces to ensure a near perfect fit.

Current price of T-111 at Lowes is $30 a sheet and perhaps a local supplier has it for less.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The trim board can be 6" high- far enough to get into good wood siding. No flashing under the new board needs replacing- only add one new flashing over the new trim. Your existing roof/wall flashing should be tall enough up the wall to raise the bottom of the new trim board 2" above the roofing to meet code; "*R905.2.8.3 Sidewall flashing.* Flashing against a vertical sidewall shall be by the step-flashing method. The flashing shall be a minimum of 4 inches (102 mm) high and 4 inches (102 mm) wide. At the end of the vertical sidewall the step flashing shall be turned out in a manner that directs water away from the wall and onto the roof and/or gutter." From;http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_9_par033.htm

"5. Wood siding, sheathing and wall framing on the exterior of a building having a clearance of less than 6 inches (152 mm) from the ground or less than 2 inches (51 mm) measured vertically from concrete steps, porch slabs, patio slabs, and *similar horizontal surfaces exposed to the weather.*" From; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_par203.htm?bu2=undefined

Gary
PS. This way you won't need to replace more sheets in future years.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

That's the picture I was looking for Gary.
Not a big fan of galvanized, due to rusting. They make the same profile in PVC and aluminum.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

the trim board is not really necessary but holding the ends of the sheets up off the roof is


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I agree, Joe, just grabbed that one when I saw the measurements were correct. The mineral coatings do wear off in the rain rinsing and clean the roofing (asphalt) so it looks like it was just installed in that small wash area below. Turbine vents/turtles/pipe boots all leach galv. off and usually the rust has taken hold somewhere on it, easy to spot from the ground or with binoculars at inspect. And the coatings today are so much thinner...

Tom, why the "L" flash there? Is that permanent? Nice detail on the shingle notch...We get Mason bees/spiders when trim is gaped in our location. I know around here leaving metal that close to roofing traps debris and soon mold thrives there.

Gary


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

cause it's supposed to be there..


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

For what purpose, Tom? Isn't the roofing step-flashed, per code?

Gary


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

no i just ran a bead of tar and capped it with the metal..there's a code?:huh:


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

My State code follows the IRC; "*R905.2.8.3 Sidewall flashing.* Flashing against a vertical sidewall shall be by the step-flashing method. The flashing shall be a minimum of 4 inches (102 mm) high and 4 inches (102 mm) wide. At the end of the vertical sidewall the step flashing shall be turned out in a manner that directs water away from the wall and onto the roof and/or gutter." From; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_9_par033.htm

Yours may be different, though highly unlikely as most codes refer to the manufacturers directions for the warranty, and meeting product use; check with local AHJ. 

I have installed 5 or so different brands of asphalt and all required sidewall step flashing. From an Inspector's link; "If you see continuous, one-piece flashing like this used as sidewall flashing with shakes, shingles or slate, it’s a defective installation, no matter how often you see it." 
From; Mastering Roof Inspections: Flashing, Part 2 - InterNACHI http://www.nachi.org/flashing-part2-13.htm#ixzz2oo4UH94Z

The pictures there pretty much nailed it.

Gary

​


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

More than likely it's just a cover piece, the step flashing is hidden by it. A single pc of flashing is an indication of a potential problem, not a given that it was done incorrectly...it just requires a bit more investigating before it's called incorrect. 

The debris issue is valid though, I would be hesitant to do such a detail if the roof collects a lot of debris. But if the HO complained about the side wall look with step flashing, I would cover it up with a similar detail to Toms.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

the small 3/4 '' return is a non issue as to debris or mold,actually much less of an issue had there been a trim board installed

when you elevate the siding on a rake wall the tins must be much larger,they weren't which required the counter,it's removable and much better looking than exposed tins


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