# Header size question



## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

That's really the best way.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

This is what I mean. Blue line is the vent stack, so I can't actually do a solid tripple. so, 2x10 with blocking/plywood/rigid foam to get to the right wall thickness. Or do I need a 2x12? Also, can windows go directly under the header?


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## SNC (Dec 5, 2008)

eliminate the cripples ?? you mean the jacks ? no. that is what carries the load from the header to the floor.
now you said the joist runs parralel, that rim joist is going to act as a header and carry some of the load.
the windows should not be tight up against the header. you need 1/4 inch space. wood can shrink and settle, this could damage your windows, i have seen them break before due to being shoved up tight to the header, especially viynal ones


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You don't need the middle cripples if that is what you mean
So long as the beam is sized to carry the full width of the opening

I did read somewhere that if the rim joist is doubled above (and sized correctly), then that can act as the header? Must be engineered/sized properly


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

SNC said:


> eliminate the cripples ?? you mean the jacks ? no. that is what carries the load from the header to the floor.
> now you said the joist runs parralel, that rim joist is going to act as a header and carry some of the load.
> the windows should not be tight up against the header. you need 1/4 inch space. wood can shrink and settle, this could damage your windows, i have seen them break before due to being shoved up tight to the header, especially viynal ones


I meant whatever goes between the bottom of the top plate and the top of the header. I thought those were called the cripples and the ones below were called the jacks or trimmers?. 

I meant right against the header vs having a 2x6 horizontally below the header between it and the window. 



Scuba_Dave said:


> You don't need the middle cripples if that is what you mean
> So long as the beam is sized to carry the full width of the opening
> 
> I did read somewhere that if the rim joist is doubled above (and sized correctly), then that can act as the header? Must be engineered/sized properly


The book I have with me right now is a bit confusing since it lists header spans relative to building width. Not sure how that applies here, but a 2x10 header supporting roof and ceiling can span 8'5" for building width of 20' and 6'6" for 36'. 

My house is probably around 36' wide for that wall, with a load bearing wall in the middle. Does that mean my building width is 18'?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

There are two good reasons to put in a header that fills all the space from the top of your window to the underside of the top plates.

One of course, you have a header that will undoubtedly support more than a smaller one with cripples thrown in.

Two, it's heck of a lot faster to build... you don't have to mess with cutting any correctly sized cripples... they don't exist.

They cost a little more. But that is far offset by the labor factor.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

In my case, the main driving force is ability to put a tall window on that wall and have it match the other windows in size and style.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

BimmerRacer said:


> *I meant whatever goes between the bottom of the top plate and the top of the header. I thought those were called the cripples and the ones below were called the jacks or trimmers*?.
> 
> I meant right against the header vs having a 2x6 horizontally below the header between it and the window.
> 
> ...


Different parts of the country often call things by different names. Here in the South, your terminology is perfectly understood.... "jacks" are the doublers on the sides of doors and windows, and "cripples" are the little stubbies that fill in the space above the header... and also below the window. (Although those window lowers are often called by other names, too)

Who knows why! Probably just another of the many insecurity-based attempts all trades and professions resort to to sound more impressive and exclusive.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

BimmerRacer said:


> This is what I mean. Blue line is the vent stack, so I can't actually do a solid tripple. so, 2x10 with blocking/plywood/rigid foam to get to the right wall thickness. Or do I need a 2x12? *Also, can windows go directly under the header*?


Not really the best construction practice because you are depending upon only some toe-nails up into the header to maintain the integrity and squareness of the window opening. The top window piece is nailed down into the jacks and you have a lateral shear connection that is much more stable than the toe-nails. It's also harder wood, and gets aggravating to install windows and to trim out.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Have to make sure everyone is using the same terminology

78" = 6' 6"
I have spanned that with triple 2x12 for a large window
Not my pic - this shows little cripple studs at the top - A PIA to cut & put in










The full studs to top plate I have always called King studs
I've always called the "trimmer studs" in this diagram "jacking studs

What they call jack studs I call cripple studs

I usually frame this way with a 2x10 or 2x12 header
The window is installed under the header - with proper clearance
NOT tight!!











Another diagram.
This shows the cripple studs at the top
I use full size headers & eliminate these
Again the window is installed under the header - but not tight


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## vsheetz (Sep 28, 2008)

Last weekend I replaced a 8' sliding door and a 8' wide window with new windows - was glad to find a 2x10 header above them already. Added a single entry door - and put a 2x10 header above it as well. As others have said, the better way to go is a 2x10 header and skip any cripples.


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## SNC (Dec 5, 2008)

BimmerRacer said:


> The book I have with me right now is a bit confusing since it lists header spans relative to building width. Not sure how that applies here, but a 2x10 header supporting roof and ceiling can span 8'5" for building width of 20' and 6'6" for 36'.
> 
> My house is probably around 36' wide for that wall, with a load bearing wall in the middle. Does that mean my building width is 18'?


 this is irrelevent in your case. the reason is the book is refering to when the joists will sit above the header, the greater the span (wider the building) the greater the load the header has to carry. but your floor load is being carried on other walls. get what im saying ?


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

SNC said:


> this is irrelevent in your case. the reason is the book is refering to when the joists will sit above the header, the greater the span (wider the building) the greater the load the header has to carry. but your floor load is being carried on other walls. get what im saying ?


Sorta....I mean I get what you are saying, but the book gives the building width option for roof/ceiling load only case still.

Either way, the header is done and will go in tomorrow. I'll post a pic once it's done. Thanks for all who responded.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)




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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Very nice
Your header span is not a worry
By having the jacking studs in the middle you are cutting the span distance in at least 1/2


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

I actually wish I did the cripples a bit different on the window on the left, but oh well. I basically started on the right and went 16" oc.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

You kind of took the hard road on that one by making one long header when two short ones would have done just as well..... you would have made the sides of the windows by the pipe the same way you did the outer sides of the windows... King studs all the way to the top plate, and jack studs from the floor to the bottoms of the headers.

No problem. This will work fine, and it looks great. Dang sure substantial!


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

I think in the original plan the windows were a bit wider and didn't allow for two studs to the right of the vent and I didn't want to move the stud closest to the corner. But, when I actually ordered the windows, I went an inch less just to be safe. Since I had it in my head I was going to do one long header I just went with it. Now I have to wait 2 months for the windows to come in.


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