# Running wires for NEW outlets In Plaster and Lathe



## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Good Morning,

I would like to add some new outlets to my second floor. I only have ONE in MY bedroom, think there is two in the middle bedroom, NONE in the bathroom, and 2 or 3 in back bedroom. At the current I am not able to rip out the walls and sheetrock. So I will have to "fish" the wires. NO CLUE how to do this! (in plaster and lathe) I know the concept of fishing just not in P&L. How difficult would this be? What could I possibly run into? If I pull the wires and hook them up to the outlet, would it be expensive to have an electriction hook them all to the circuit breaker box? ( I do NOT touch the CB panel, except to throw a tripped breaker) haha Call me chicken, but at least I won't be a fried chicken! :laughing:

Thank You


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The only problem I have seen with lathe is cutting it
Using a sawzall it can vibrate the lathe loose from the wall

Dedicated 20a run to the bathroom required by code
Bedrooms need to be afci

Figure out where the studs are
You don't want to be too close to a stud or an old work box the catches won't turn & hold the box in place
Drill a hole to start & verify location
Small hole saw to cut out the hole...or sabre saw ?
I haven't done any P&L in a while


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

This link might help you get the boxes installed in your P&L wall.

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/elect/rough_in/remodel/j_boxes/wall2x4/01/thick_wall.htm


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## RST (Jul 19, 2009)

Great link! Thanks.


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

secutanudu said:


> This link might help you get the boxes installed in your P&L wall.
> 
> http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/elect/rough_in/remodel/j_boxes/wall2x4/01/thick_wall.htm


 
YES it should be VERY VERY Helpful!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thank You for the link!


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

I am glad you will find it useful. I just put a new switchbox in my P&L wall, and I did have to back out the screw a little like it was described in that article. Just give the tabe a light tug before you put it in to make sure it won't fall into the wall. I have "drywall" type lathe, which I think is thicker than wood lathe, and standard old work boxes went fine, and my walls are over an inch thick.


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## Evil Scotsman (Nov 4, 2009)

Not even sure how think mine are, NOT READY to go there just yet! LOL With Christmas coming and we are going on a cruise in March to Hawaii, DON'T want to get started just yet! LOL Thanks though, I added it to my favorites so I can find it WHEN I am ready!:thumbup:


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Even if you are careful you may end up with an occasional piece of lath separating from the plaster in back. If the plaster should crack some time later, just patching it will probably hold it in place.

Almost always, at least one piece of lath gets cut completely. The ends loose at the box hole are very apt to push back away from the plaster.

Sometimes plaster has embedded fibers or hair which makes it less likely to crumble.


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

One other thing to consider when working with old walls is getting an asbestos test.


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## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

First: "secutanudu", That's very close to how I have handled this problem working on older homes in my area, including a 1921 home my son owned for a few years. I have had to change out the screws which come with an old work box for a slightly longer screw to get the "latching tab" to actually latch on the back of the wall. Getting this latching tab to secure to the back of the wall in an upright position can be tricky with longer screws. So, I have used a piece of clothes hanger wire to push between the plaster and old work box to hold the latching tab in it's proper place for tightening. Everyone has some type of trick they use I'm sure, David


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

That's funny, I was wondering how I might make it work if I had to get longer screws. I guess the coat hanger would work!

I noticed you're from the "other" Albany  I live in the one in NY State.


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

You might want to have an electrician install a new outlet on a new circuit near the breaker box. This shouldn't be too expensive. Then connect your wires to that outlet. He might not be too keen on the idea of connecting your work for you, since he would potentially have liability. But you could always ask.


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## philS (Jul 10, 2007)

Scuba , OP, others - Don;t forget about our old friend the the angle grider with a metal blade. The high speed and circular motion (not reciprocating) cuts way down on the vibration, and tends not to bring the whole wall down on top of you. And the discs are cheap. Just keep some water handy and make sure you're nowhere near your smokie - ie you WILL see smoke. Good luck. 

I hate lathe and plaster! Doesn't take much of an excuse before I hire HS and college kids to rip it out completely (they love to get dirty). Then I do what needs to be done, then rock it.

And yes, my Fein tool gets used almost every day! -- Phil


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## RST (Jul 19, 2009)

philS said:


> Scuba , OP, others - Don;t forget about our old friend the the angle grider with a metal blade. The high speed and circular motion (not reciprocating) cuts way down on the vibration, and tends not to bring the whole wall down on top of you. And the discs are cheap. Just keep some water handy and make sure you're nowhere near your smokie - ie you WILL see smoke. Good luck.
> 
> I hate lathe and plaster! Doesn't take much of an excuse before I hire HS and college kids to rip it out completely (they love to get dirty). Then I do what needs to be done, then rock it.
> 
> And yes, my Fein tool gets used almost every day! -- Phil


Great idea! I need to cut out a box. I think I may try the grinder or an oscillating tool - there may be some other wires in the wall cavity, should be safer than a 4" saw blade.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You may want to check out the new SmartBox style old work box that screws into the side of the stud and provides a much stronger mounting and does not flex the plaster when using the receptacle.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

philS said:


> Scuba , OP, others - Don;t forget about our old friend the the angle grider with a metal blade. The high speed and circular motion (not reciprocating) cuts way down on the vibration, and tends not to bring the whole wall down on top of you. And the discs are cheap. Just keep some water handy and make sure you're nowhere near your smokie - ie you WILL see smoke. Good luck.
> 
> I hate lathe and plaster! Doesn't take much of an excuse before I hire HS and college kids to rip it out completely (they love to get dirty). Then I do what needs to be done, then rock it.
> 
> And yes, my Fein tool gets used almost every day! -- Phil


I'd point out, though, that this also makes a lot more dust. And where there's L&P there's also a probability of lead hazards.

I've put old work boxes into L&P in my kitchen, but it was also behind 2 layers of sheetrock and I didn't care what happenned to the plaster.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

It is possible you may have to cut additional holes in the wall (through the lath too) to assist in fishing the wires through.

Patch them using ordinary modern drywall patching techniques.


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## RST (Jul 19, 2009)

Jim Port said:


> You may want to check out the new SmartBox style old work box that screws into the side of the stud and provides a much stronger mounting and does not flex the plaster when using the receptacle.


With some digging around I found such a box at a local big box store! Not the original, a version made by Arlington.


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## WaldenL (Jan 9, 2009)

I've found the dremel multimax to be great for cutting into P&L, none of that vibration caused by sawzalls. As for the box, if you're not comfortable don't do it, but if you're willing to learn it's not hard to wire something into the box.


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## Mike in Arkansas (Dec 29, 2008)

Just a word of warning. If you have rock plaster like I do, your blades will last about half a box hole before there are no teeth left. Using a Fein type tool will get VERY expensive quickly (blades). I finally started hand cutting mine using a hacksaw blade in a single ended holder after drilling a starter hole.


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## EEKreno (Jun 23, 2018)

WillK said:


> philS said:
> 
> 
> > Scuba , OP, others - Don;t forget about our old friend the the angle grider with a metal blade. The high speed and circular motion (not reciprocating) cuts way down on the vibration, and tends not to bring the whole wall down on top of you. And the discs are cheap. Just keep some water handy and make sure you're nowhere near your smokie - ie you WILL see smoke. Good luck.
> ...


If some of the L&P keys fall off the back while you're cutti ng the hole for the box, you can always apply about 1/2 inch of stiff Sheetrock mix to the back of the Lath (where the plastwr keys used to be) to help tie it back in. Just remember to slightly dampen the back of the old L&P plaster before applying Sheetrock and ensure the sheetrock fix doesn't get in the way of the ears on the new Old electical box you're installing.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

7 year old thread.


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