# metal roofing



## nomoney (May 16, 2006)

the house here in FL is fast approaching a new roof............i have had 20 years on the present roof( 1600 sq ft )other than the addition( 220 sq ft ).

a lot of styles/types to choose from:

1. 3-tab shingles.....the cheapest method and what i have on most of the house $6K

2. so-called 'architecture' shingles.....a little more pricey, shingles weigh more $9K

3. metal roofing.......nice colors and even here different designs but really expensive but it is supposed to last much much longer $14K

4. clay tile 'look' but done in plastic $??

5. the real deal clay tile......my roof would probably cave in.

i and the 'boss' sort of like the metal option, the color pick is great as well as its durability but the cost.......wondering if i could order the metal and install myself.....any experience from amateurs on installing their own metal roof?


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Piece of cake...go for it.


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Metal roofing is not overly difficult, and the roof design of your home can make it easy or more challenging. The least expensive metal roofing is using a "panel" style in a classic profile, ribs on 9 inch centers and the sheet covers 3 feet. You can find a metal building manufacturer in your area that will run and cut to length the metal you need, in probably a color you will like. Be sure you go with 26 gauge metal, and the lighter the color, the greater the reflective value. In Oklahoma, we install 26 gauge metal roofs for $175 a sq, tearoffs and gutters and special trim extra. If you have a gabled roof, straight run, it is a piece of cake. A hipped roof is a little more challenging, and will require a nibbler. One thing to consider: You should install it on as flat a deck as you can...it is ok to install over a layer of shingles, if they are laying well....any more then 1 layer, tear it off and do it right. Another thing that comes from the school of experience. We use 2-1/2 inch woodgrip screws, screwed on the ribs in rows 3 to 4 feet apart, and screw the flats only at the eave, one on each side of a rib (wind screw). Follow this plan and you reduce the chances of it ever leaking unless you over drive or underdrive the screws.


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## nomoney (May 16, 2006)

thankyou for the info....i will start researching on tools needed and all those other interesting details


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Metal runs .75 more or less across the land (current steel prices) if you like the panel style. I haven't kept up with metal architectural (stamped/pressed) roofing systems, but the last price specs I had were 3.50 a sq/ft and up, plus detail trim. The tools are really basic. We do not use a metal cutting skil saw or gimmick blades, we use a shear (Kett) and a nibler (Milwaukee) to do all the cutting, plus a good quality hole saw for roof pipes. We have installed nearly 200 metal roofs since I got into that side of construction, and what works for us would work for anyone. We use 18volt cordless (Dewalt 987 or 988) drills to do the screws, a few straight edges, and thats about it. Good aviation snips, left and right, makes the trim work easier..and use plumb lines when starting the metal courses...good luck.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Yeah, since metal roofing is so simple, just go with a nice flatlocked and soldered copper....piece of cake.

That is, unless you dont mind your home looking like a friggin horse barn like joasis is saying. 

A standing seam would with hidden fasteners would probably look a lot better on your house. Even an inverted J panel would be a step above the R panel

If youre going to do it in metal youd better do it now, cuz steel is on the rise , and its going fast.


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we install classic panel roofs on custom homes...I guess the HO's don't mind the country look. Soldered seam and standing seam roofs are not DIY type of projects. When I was in Florida awhile back, I saw a lot of them. The colors and architectural style of the home has a lot to do with the "look". This style of roofing is taking over in the southwest, mainly due to economy and practicality. HO's in my area get a 20% - 30% discount on insurance since roof damage and replacement won't happen every 3 to 5 years (industry average, Texas, Oklahoma, kansas) with metal as opposed to comp roofs.

Sorry Aaron, that you disagree with my advice...I assume you know your market, and I sure know mine.....I don't mind sharing experience and information on how to do something....I am not advocating a wholesale jump into the trade.

I will try to post a few pictures of roofs we have done...see if they look like horse barns.


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## nomoney (May 16, 2006)

advice from you folks in the trade is priceless. you have the experience and know-how. 

us amateurs are just that......we think we can do it but those messy details derail us unless the planning is done, and by planning i mean having answers to all the work and knowing what questions to have.

i have been downloading various 'how-to' files but there is always more info needed.

all of your input is highly appreciated and valued.


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Here is a horse barn we roofed last winter....we kinda like it. 

http://www.diychatroom.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&stc=1&d=1149368903


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Is That an exposed fastener system?


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## Chuckman (May 29, 2006)

how much would that cost for a roof on a 35x30 building 1050squarefeet


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Yes Aaron, exposed fasteners. 2 reasons: Metal expands and contracts, therefore, I use long woodgrips (2-1/2 inch with washer) on each rib, 3 to 4 feets apart. This allows the screw shank a "slight" amount of flex without breaking the seal of the washer. I am one of the few metal roof installers in this area who does this...other guys screw on the flats...and I think it is wrong...the other reason is the screws located on the ribs gives the panels a "clean" look....and I believe a better overall apearance. There is nothing wrong with standing seam...except the cost on doing it on many roof styles makes it impractical...can you imagine running a mechanical seamer on the 12/12 pitch in the pictures? Snap lock panels can and will come loose in the high winds in Oklahoma...we have recorded 85 mph straight gusts 3 times this spring alone...The architectural style roofing systems that I love for the look are just flat out too expensive for all but the wealthy in my area....can you imagine trying to sell a roof that installed will be $900 a square compared to $150 for metal panel and $100 for good comps? When I said the difference in markets...I was looking at the whole picture....many older homes sell for $50 a sq/ft....and the people who own them will not be able to pay for the premium roofing system...


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## lxdollarsxl (Apr 16, 2006)

joasis said:


> Here is a horse barn we roofed last winter....we kinda like it.
> 
> http://www.diychatroom.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&stc=1&d=1149368903


 I think it looks good joasis, much better than ive seen locally where lots of houses have metal on em.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Can you link us to a bigger picture or larger picture? I agree with screwing into the flats...for no other reason that the volume of water running over the screw heads is multiplied several times as a opposed to on top of the ribs.


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## nomoney (May 16, 2006)

so, in further reading across many sites i have these observations / questions:

1. my 3 tab tile is old, almost 20 years. the addition has new arch tiles.

i am tempted to pull everything off the roof, old and new. the wood roof is the florida merritt island pine that they cut right here when they built these homes back in 1967. they are close to being petrified pine.

2. if i pull all the old and new off do i then lay #30 felt or that new underlayment stuff, sort of silvery and has a better wind rating?

3. after the felt, do i then put down 'battons' across the whole roof?

enough questions for today........


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

#1, given that you have roof tiles over part of the roof, those muct be removed...felt is ok to lay down under the metal. The 3 tabs can be left, if they are laying perfectly flat...we do one layer overlays quite often...

#2...I have been reading in a few trade publications guy are using typical house wrap on roofs now...there is a membrane called "triflex" that is great underlayment for steel..but if a roof has any pitch, it is slick as snot.

#3 If your roof deck is good, you have no need to add purlins (battens)...just a word of caution: When laying out screw rows, avoid having a row in a seam of a deck.


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## k.baker (Jul 1, 2006)

*k.baker*

corrugated metal roofing is best installed with the screws on the flat areas 1/2 inch to the side of the overlap rib.and following through beside each other rib through out the field of the roof.reason being there are way too many variables and way too many screws to hope you got it tight and secure into good wood. when you fasten into the flat area you take the fastener all the way down till it tightens.if the fastener does not tighten you know you dont have the roof tight in this area.flat fastening the sheets also takes most all the guess work out of quality measures.like screws at a angle not sealing the fasters washer.also crushing the rib with the fastener,because the only way to ensure a tight roof is to secure it tight with every screw.its each individual screw that matters,not just the fact you have many partially installed screws


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

k.baker said:


> corrugated metal roofing is best installed with the screws on the flat areas 1/2 inch to the side of the overlap rib.and following through beside each other rib through out the field of the roof.reason being there are way too many variables and way too many screws to hope you got it tight and secure into good wood. when you fasten into the flat area you take the fastener all the way down till it tightens.if the fastener does not tighten you know you dont have the roof tight in this area.flat fastening the sheets also takes most all the guess work out of quality measures.like screws at a angle not sealing the fasters washer.also crushing the rib with the fastener,because the only way to ensure a tight roof is to secure it tight with every screw.its each individual screw that matters,not just the fact you have many partially installed screws


I beg to differ. The point of screws in the ribs (corrugated or classic/R panel) is to allow some slight movement of the sheets, i.e. coeficient of expansion...the sheets can "grow" in length 3/8" on a hot day. A screw shank up 3/4" in the rib allows a cumulative bending moment that does not lend itself to opening up the screw hole and or working the washer. A screw needs to be installed correctly, not angled or under-driven or overdriven. We use cordless drills when doing these, and the touch is figured out quickly when the screw is correctly set. Just like driving nails, a feel for this is quickly mastered. The other point to NOT placing field screws in the flats is that water seeks a channel to run, why would you give the water a bunch of screws to wash over? The only time we shoot the flats is on the eave row, which we double screw (one each side of the rib) for wind resisitance (wind screwing).

There are hundreds of old round top barns here, nailed corugated, and they are all nailed on the ribs for this reason.....my old granpa always said water runs in the valley, not on the hills. Given that most guys trying this would get the hang of it quickly, it is not out of reach as a DIY project. I had a background in steel erection (metal buildings) before I ever did a residential roof, and nearly 200 roofs later, we do what works.


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## k.baker (Jul 1, 2006)

*re-roof/roof over*

you really dont have to remove the old roofing.you can start by laying roofing felt over your existing roof,then install a grib of 1x3 furring strips(as long as the existing roof deck seems stable through out)2x4 purlins if the roof deck is soft in places or has major dips that you want to shim out.set about 2' o/c from gutter to the ridge cap.walk only on the grid while installing the roof.start installing the metal remembering to see that things fall on 9" centers(both ends of the roof) there are some adjustments built into the rake trim.hi i'm a metal roofing contractor specializing in metal roofing fabricating and installing. located in central pa area, we are involved in large large commercial projects and high end residencial projects as well, throughout the state of pa.site formed seamless panels available. email: [email protected] or call814)224~4268


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

I would really recommend a nice snap lok panel or even a batten cap over an R panel or corrugated for a house.


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## RooferJim (Mar 11, 2006)

I think its foolish to downplay the merits of I&W, love the stuff. however its not a majic bullett and good roofing practice is still essential. you must however put a slip sheet "like red rosin paper" between the ice shield "or felt" and the metal roofing. if you dont you run the risk of having the metal stick to it and cause oil canning or ashpalt bleed.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## segjfm (Oct 29, 2007)

*Screws for metal roofing*

I am a believer in screws through the ridges instead of the flats. I want to put metal over a thick (3 inch) foam insulation board. where can I find screws 5 inches long? or longer?


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

Unless you have a need to do it, why place 3 inches of insulation board under the steel? 

The technique we started this last year is laying solar guard, reflective side up, under the steel and this effectively reflects the heat gain in an attic.....unless you don't have an attic, you would be well advised to go with the solar guard or double bubble insulation.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

use olympic screws to put plywood over the insulation ,then you can put regular screws thru the metal,I understand in florida thru the rib is what`s required,and yes you do have to allow for expansion/contraction when installing metal roofing


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## segjfm (Oct 29, 2007)

*Metal roofing*

This application is to replace a low slope BUR and there is no attic.The only practical way to insulate is over the deck and under the metal.
Solar guard would be in direct contact with the metal unles standoff purlins are added. An air gap is required for the solar guard to properly reflect the radiant energy from the sheet metal for summer use. There would be little value for winter heating requirements.


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## joasis (May 28, 2006)

We do not "air gap" the solar guard, it works laid flat on decking as well.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

I helped install a metal roof on a Habitat house in southern Colorado this past summer. The exposed-fastener style is prevalent there - even most of the upscale homes seemed to have it. In fact, I did not even see a standing seam roof.

I could not believe how easy the roof was to install. Three of us (all just experienced DIYers) did the whole thing in less than a day.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

concealed fastener standing seam roof details can be pretty complicated at any penetrations In my opinion the exposed fastener ag type panel is going to leak at some time in its life all those screws have to be installed just right for the neoprene washers to work properly and with expansion and contraction the screw hole eventually gets bigger and bigger.Not a good residential product imo


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