# Mobile solar power, Trailer mounted



## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

I was just looking at a property with ground mounted solar. It came to mind that it’s possible the solar panels might not be included with the property. That’s when I realized that a solar sales guy mentioned that I probably would not need any more than my 20x20 garage worth of solar. Well, I have a 8x16 trailer with a tongue that extends even longer. It came to mind that I could possibly mount solar on my trailer. I guess people might not want to be bumping around an investment like solar panels, or putting them on something that could so easily be stolen. But it does get me thinking. It’s a way to avoid the HOA and make your investment portable. 

Anyone done this? Seen it done beyond RVs?


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## Half-fast eddie (Sep 19, 2020)

mknmike said:


> I was just looking at a property with ground mounted solar. It came to mind that it’s possible the solar panels might not be included with the property. .
> 
> It’s a way to avoid the HOA and make your investment portable.


What does the sales contract say about conveyance of improvements on the property? 
Don’t kid yourself, the HOA can control everything on the property, fixed and mobile.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Your HOA doesn’t allow solar but does allow trailer parking? That is the reverse of what I have seen.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

There was a company that made solar trailers and went belly up. Still they wanted 15 grand for 5-10 year old equipment. Not so bad on the panels and controls but 5 year old batteries outside? Pass.

Depending on what state you are in the HOA may not be able to say anything about fixed panels on your roof. I know some HOA's got sued over that here in Arizona. Lost they did.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

SW Dweller said:


> There was a company that made solar trailers and went belly up. Still they wanted 15 grand for 5-10 year old equipment. Not so bad on the panels and controls but 5 year old batteries outside? Pass.
> 
> Depending on what state you are in the HOA may not be able to say anything about fixed panels on your roof. I know some HOA's got sued over that here in Arizona. Lost they did.


Well, I’m on the architectural committee of this historic neighborhood, and we care less about a trailer in someone’s driveway (or even parked on the street) than permanent modifications to the homes. I have a car hobby and had my 8x16 flatbed trailer in my driveway, even with the 4-foot plywood walls that make it a dumpster on wheels parked in my driveway for some time. The architectural committee governs fences, hardscaping, and exterior modifications to homes, even the colors. There’s always the threat of legal action if someone doesn’t follow the rules. We pay our hoa fees just so we can sue ourselves! 

But out neighborhood is special. Here’s a write up on it to give you an idea. Wawaset, Wilmington, DE

I am constantly trying to find tasteful ways to integrate Solar into our community. Currently, we have legislation in Delaware that will allow people to invest in community solar, which essentially is people renting land to erect solar panels. Not a bad idea, but solar is best when energy is generated right where it is used.

As for the batteries, we have net-metering here, so we can allow the grid to be our battery.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Half-fast eddie said:


> What does the sales contract say about conveyance of improvements on the property?
> Don’t kid yourself, the HOA can control everything on the property, fixed and mobile.


Delaware actually has a law that states that the HOA can’t prevent you from installing solar. That doesn’t mean we won’t file a lawsuit against ourselves anyway though. That is how laws get changed. Right?


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## Texican57 (11 mo ago)

I don't understand why anyone would want a HOA telling them what they can and can't do with their own property.

They are trying to controll you, if you haven't figured that out yet.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Texican57 said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want a HOA telling them what they can and can't do with their own property.
> 
> They are trying to controll you, if you haven't figured that out yet.


Deed Restriction. Planned community. Maybe so your neighbor doesn’t put flashing lights on their property or raise chickens and roosters that crow at dawn. If it wasn’t for the restrictions and architectural and grounds committees, I’m sure my wife (and I) would not have bought in the neighborhood.


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## Texican57 (11 mo ago)

So you have to play games, put solar panels on trailer, instead of on your roof.

Deed restrictions are enforced by the city where I'm at. 

Problem with a neighbors weeds, call the city.

Problem with their junk cars, call the city.

I can always tell when a lawyer moves into the neighborhood, the first thing they want to do is start an HOA.

Why?

Because it takes money out of your pocket and puts it in theirs.

In the thirty plus years I've been in this neighborhood, we have beat back three attempts to start an HOA.

We have a civic club and volunteers that get out and mow the entrance to the neighborhood.

Yep, we actually get out and meet our neighbors. 

I have friends that thought started an HOA would be great for their neighborhood.

What they found out is the HOA board can give themselves raises, which in turn, comes out of your pocket with increased fees.

Don't like the fees?

Don't pay them.

But since you signed the paper, the HOA can take your property.

So you are paying a fee for a third party to enforce deed restrictions and city ordnance, that you could handle yourself.

There is not one single thing that would convince me an HOA is a good thing.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Texican57 said:


> So you have to play games, put solar panels on trailer, instead of on your roof.
> 
> Deed restrictions are enforced by the city where I'm at.
> 
> ...


Wow. This one went awol fast. I have a slate roof on my house. I like it. It has a steep pitch that is not ideal for solar. I don’t want solar on my roof. I don’t want my neighbors putting solar on their roofs either. I have been researching solar options that look good for a while. You can look at my thread history if you’d like. 

I was interested in learning of issues with mobile solar, and if there even are any. I’m curious. I might consider the concept. I don’t really care about your opinions on HOAs.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

So I see that most solar panels are about 3.3’x5.5’ or larger. 

I checked the size of my shed and was disappointed to see it is only ~14x8’ in size. So my trailer can certainly handle more solar panels than the shed. But My property extends 3’ beyond my garage on the back side, and perhaps I could use that space, at least if it is a temporary structure that holds the solar. I can definitely extend the shed a few more feet to at least match up with the 20x20’ garage. That alone would give me 3’ more. So let’s just say I have 14-16x8 there.

The trailer would be another 8x16 or even longer with the tongue. That is probably another 4 feet.

So the best use of the 8’ width is probably to use the 3.3+ and double it. For nearly 7’ wide on the available 8 feet. Using multiples of 5.5, 16.5’ is probably the max. So I’m looking at 4-6 panels on my shed. The trailer could do 6. Then the next step would be figuring out if there’s a fold-up or slide out option for the trailer. If so, you could at least double the number of panels to 12 or even more.

It seems like 300 watts is reasonable. There are some that claim to be 400 watt now though. I just don’t know if I’d want to put the most expensive ones on a trailer. So maybe I should use some of the lower numbers. 300 is easy for math though. 6x300 watt is 1.8 kW from a 6 panel trailer. My sister runs more than her farm and house with 15 kw and 52 panels (~285 watt panels I guess), 780 square feet. 

It seems like there’s a possibility of this is a possibility of putting a dent in power usage, but there’s one clear issue with trailer mounted solar: height. Roofs are high up above most small trees or the shade of other houses. This helps them generate more power throughout the day. 

Hmm…

Well, I’m going to guess that this just isn’t really practical. It’s surely easier to put a generator on a trailer and burn gas to generate power. That’s just not real green.

I’m going to keep my eyes peeled for options.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

It seems like a lot of hassle, expense, and risk, for not much, if any, reward. 

If you want to do something good for the environment, or just your pocketbook, there are lots of better ways to improve the energy efficiency of your property and your lifestyle.

Considering what's involved in the production of solar panels, they're not really that 'green', anyway.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> It seems like a lot of hassle, expense, and risk, for not much, if any, reward.
> 
> If you want to do something good for the environment, or just your pocketbook, there are lots of better ways to improve the energy efficiency of your property and your lifestyle.
> 
> Considering what's involved in the production of solar panels, they're not really that 'green', anyway.


What better ways? Is the assumption that I am not already trying to do them?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> What better ways? Is the assumption that I am not already trying to do them?


Generally, there are always efficiency upgrades to a house; not all of them make financial sense (cost more than they save), but then it matters why you are doing it - strictly for your own financial interests, or because you want to 'save the planet'. 

Lifestyle changes to use less energy can be a contentious subject for some people, and I don't care to start any arguments, at least not here. That's probably a debate topic for the CBR.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Generally, there are always efficiency upgrades to a house; not all of them make financial sense (cost more than they save), but then it matters why you are doing it - strictly for your own financial interests, or because you want to 'save the planet'.
> 
> Lifestyle changes to use less energy can be a contentious subject for some people, and I don't care to start any arguments, at least not here. That's probably a debate topic for the CBR.


“The CBR”?

I wasn’t looking for people to give me widely general concepts as to why my idea is not practical, and provide no backup of information like solar panels not being as green as people might think. Show me some real data, sources, or something of value. Maybe teach me what the CBR is.

But if I am looking to buy or sell property, and I’m also looking to invest in solar. Isn’t the concept of having mobile power generation a nice topic regardless of where you live, whether you have an HOA. Is it much more expensive to mount solar panels on a trailer than it is to mount them on the ground? Clearly I’m not the only person with this idea as you can see by the links I’ve posted above.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> Maybe teach me what the CBR is.


CBR = Controversial Board Room - a DIY Chatroom forum for discussion of controversial subjects, such as politics.



mknmike said:


> But if I am looking to buy or sell property, and I’m also looking to invest in solar. Isn’t the concept of having mobile power generation a nice topic regardless of where you live, whether you have an HOA. Is it much more expensive to mount solar panels on a trailer than it is to mount them on the ground?


It's a interesting topic for discussion, and if you really, really want to have solar, but your HOA won't let you have it permanently installed, it's certainly doable. 

Solar power is cost-effective in sunny southern areas of the country. In northern areas, with a significant number of cloudy days, the payback period can be very long, sometimes longer than the service life of the system, which means you're paying more to use solar power. If your motivation for doing it is something other than your bottom line, that's a whole different calculation. 

That's assuming a permanent installation. Installation on a trailer is marginally more expensive, but the big 'expense' is the loss of the use of the trailer for other things. For an honest ROI calculation, if that matters, you have to include the value of the trailer as part of the initial system cost, which I would guess would show that it will never pay for itself. Again, if this is more to you than just a cost-saving venture, then that doesn't matter.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> CBR = Controversial Board Room - a DIY Chatroom forum for discussion of controversial subjects, such as politics.
> 
> 
> It's a interesting topic for discussion, and if you really, really want to have solar, but your HOA won't let you have it permanently installed, it's certainly doable.
> ...


Solar panels on a trailer could be sold.

My trailer is a POS which is basically a mobile dumpster. I’ve used it to scrap some cars, but don’t trust it for highway use. 



http://www.mkngarage.com/items/9notmb/cartrailer/IMG_6234.JPG



The benefit would be that if I need to move it 50 miles, or maybe park it on my sister’s sunny horse farm, she could make even more money from her poco if she wants. Maybe I use it. I think it would be fun. It could be a great learning experience. 

Trailer might cover an EV, and if that’s offsetting gasoline, then it’s saving a lot these days. 10,000 miles/year at 30 mpg is 333 gallons of gas. That’s $1,333/year in gas it could offset if it can do it. 

Average EV:
30 kWh to travel 100 miles
3000 kWH to travel 10,000 miles (annual average)


From some website:

“Updated 01/03/2022 

The average American home needs between 19 and 23 solar panels based on the average electricity usage of 877 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per month. Installing that many solar panels would cost between $13,000 and $16,200 after the federal solar tax credit. “ 

23 panels —> 877 kWH/month
1 panel —> 38.1 kWH/month 
1 panel —> 457.6 kWH/year For simplicity, 500 kWH/year per panel, ~10% difference anyway. 

Looks like over the course of a year 6 panels on a trailer might cover 90% of the electricity requirements of an electric car. 

So now how much will that cost? 

I think I checked this and saw that I have paid as high as $0.25/kWH. If you look at the same 3000 kWH/year from the poco, that’s $750/year.

The thing that shocks me most about this is that even at $4/gallon, you only save $583.33/year if you pay $0.25/kWH (which admittedly is high). 

Regardless, it seems that 6 panels on a trailer could run an EV for 9000 miles a year (90% of the 10,000 number I’ve been using). 

Also, if I really pay $0.25/kWH, it could save 90% of 3000 kWH, $675. 

Ok. Now how much will panels and an inverter cost?

I think I was seeing prices around $300/panel. So I’m sure this would cost at least $2000. So, it looks like possibly a 3 year payback if it costs $2000. 6 year if it costs $4000. I will work on the pricing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

So this setup is for OFF-Grid power. And racking is not included at the $6,xxx price range. And goes to $8,xxx with racking. But it does include batteries. 









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I was thinking on-grid, and will keep searching.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> My trailer is a POS which is basically a mobile dumpster. I’ve used it to scrap some cars, but don’t trust it for highway use.


Then the value of it is rather low. As I said earlier, whatever the value of it is, i.e. what you could sell it for, gets added into the initial system cost to determine the years to break even. 

Your math looks a bit fuzzy for the rest of it. The EV charging is a red herring. Electricity cost is electricity cost, whatever you do with it. You start out quoting "some website" that a installed system big enough to supply a typical household is "between $13,000 and $16,200 after the federal solar tax credit", and then end up saying you think you can do it for $2000. Payback period of 3 years? Good luck with that. Hey, it's your money; spend it however you want.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

All the 404 Forbidden errors on this site don’t give me confidence in them or this name. The slightly more expensive LG option gives the 404 error. This package seems almost too cheap to be true. It’s a grid inverter, and 16 solar panels (10 more than I’d want for this toy project). 






(16) SOLARWORLD 300 WATT/ ENPHASE IQ6 MICRO INVERTER PACKAGE (4.8KW) – DIY Solar Depot







diysolardepot.com


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Then the value of it is rather low. As I said earlier, whatever the value of it is, i.e. what you could sell it for, gets added into the initial system cost to determine the years to break even.
> 
> Your math looks a bit fuzzy for the rest of it. The EV charging is a red herring. Electricity cost is electricity cost, whatever you do with it. You start out quoting "some website" that a installed system big enough to supply a typical household is "between $13,000 and $16,200 after the federal solar tax credit", and then end up saying you think you can do it for $2000. Payback period of 3 years? Good luck with that. Hey, it's your money; spend it however you want.


Sorry I didn’t grab the website for you. Here it is. Calculate how many solar panels you need for your home

Yes, the math is fuzzy. I’m writing down “it is what it is.” Your attitude seems insanely negative to me. You are welcome to stop reading.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> Yes, the math is fuzzy. I’m writing down “it is what it is.” Your attitude seems insanely negative to me.


I'm not trying to be negative, just trying to help you look at this realistically, so you know what to expect. As I said, whatever you want to do is up to you.

I looked into a solar system for myself, here in Cheyenne, WY, which is at about the same latitude as you are, with considerably more full-sun days. Even doing the physical install myself, I found the payback period to be over 15 years. Granted, that's still within the service life of the system, but not by a whole lot. Of course, you pay alot more for electricity from your utilities than we do, so your payback period may be shorter.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> I'm not trying to be negative, just trying to help you look at this realistically, so you know what to expect. As I said, whatever you want to do is up to you.
> 
> I looked into a solar system for myself, here in Cheyenne, WY, which is at about the same latitude as you are, with considerably more full-sun days. Even doing the physical install myself, I found the payback period to be over 15 years. Granted, that's still within the service life of the system, but not by a whole lot. Of course, you pay alot more for electricity from your utilities than we do, so your payback period may be shorter.


If it’s ALL about finances, then it makes sense to burn fossil fuels and let the earth cook. Right? 

I agree that most solar installs in my area probably won’t ever provide a return on investment. I think my sister may have paid $70k for at 15 kW system that makes her about $1000/year over her power bills going to near zero. Let’s just say that saves her $5000/year. Yeah, maybe a 15 year payback is possible.









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Well, if the system pays for itself in 15 years AND it gets us off fossil fuels, doesn’t that work? 

You might make the argument that it makes no sense to change the oil in your car because it will keep running even if you don’t. It will last longer if you do though. Hopefully the planet will be livable for longer if we try to curb our CO2 emissions.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Ok, I was going to leave that alone, but since you insist...


mknmike said:


> If it’s ALL about finances, then it makes sense to burn fossil fuels and let the earth cook. Right?


Yep.


mknmike said:


> Hopefully the planet will be livable for longer if we try to curb our CO2 emissions.


It might be more livable with more CO2, since that's what makes plants grow. 

Besides, with the Grand Solar Minimum expected to drop global temperatures for the next 50 years, you people trying to stop global warming may wake up in the not-so-distant future and wonder "Dang, it's cold! What the heck were we thinking?".


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> Ok, I was going to leave that alone, but since you insist...
> 
> Yep.
> 
> ...


This is what you are trying to say is going to counter all global warming? Modern Grand Solar Minimum will lead to terrestrial cooling

We have already entered the period but are still experiencing some of the hottest years on record. Yet we are already in this grand solar minimum? 

What’s your problem you are trying to solve?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> This is what you are trying to say is going to counter all global warming?


I don't know. Maybe it will counter all the warming we've seen and then some. Maybe it won't. I'm not going to worry about it, or take the money I need to take care of my family and blow it trying to affect something that my puny efforts will not change. The climate is going to do what it's going to do; I'm going to live my life.


mknmike said:


> What’s your problem you are trying to solve?


I'm not trying to solve anything; it's the arrogant ones that think we can affect the climate that are wrestling with 'solving the problem of global warming', led by a few who are laughing all the way to the bank in their monster SUVs, and flying their private jets all over the world, to their multiple energy hogging mansions.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> I don't know. Maybe it will counter all the warming we've seen and then some. Maybe it won't. I'm not going to worry about it, or take the money I need to take care of my family and blow it trying to affect something that my puny efforts will not change. The climate is going to do what it's going to do; I'm going to live my life.
> 
> I'm not trying to solve anything; it's the arrogant ones that think we can affect the climate that are wrestling with 'solving the problem of global warming', led by a few who are laughing all the way to the bank in their monster SUVs, and flying their private jets all over the world, to their multiple energy hogging mansions.


So documenting a possible way to create on-grid or off-grid electricity for people who might be interested in this idea is just a waste of time, but taking the time to say why you think it’s a waste is not. Got it. 

Thank you for your opinion.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I knew I shouldn't have gotten into political aspects of this, but I got sucked in. Since you obviously don't want to hear anything I have to say on the economic aspects, I won't waste any more of anyone's time trying to explain what you don't want to hear.

Good luck with your project.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> I knew I shouldn't have gotten into political aspects of this, but I got sucked in. Since you obviously don't want to hear anything I have to say on the economic aspects, I won't waste any more of anyone's time trying to explain what you don't want to hear.
> 
> Good luck with your project.


It sounds like we agree that payback on solar currently floats around 15 years. Is that perhaps something we agree on?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

mknmike said:


> It sounds like we agree that payback on solar currently floats around 15 years. Is that perhaps something we agree on?


That looks to be about right for your current electricity rates and typical installation costs. That's assuming you have the money, or you finance it at a fixed rate you lock in soon, while interest rates are still low. If you finance at a higher rate, that extends the time for it to pay for itself.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

It goes without saying that one needs to look carefully at the finances and payback when that’s the main goal. Some might just like the flexibility that is provided.

I’ve looked at installing solar before selling a home, and I’m confident that solar does not provide a payback if selling before the payback period is up. I think that most people don’t stay out for 15 years. 

I think that installing on a trailer as opposed to on a fixed structure could allow one to avoid permits and all kids of red tape. In my case, a cheap trailer that I bought for $700 and have invested another $500 in tires and other various repairs might be cheaper to sacrifice than the various costs I might incur trying to install solar permanently on one of my properties. 

Additionally, the cost of the trailer is not a permanent cost. If I decide to move the solar panels to some other permanent location, the racking could be removed. I could assure that the racking is welded in a way that it could easily be removed. 

Most trailers sit doing nothing for the majority of their time anyway. 

I could park this trailer in the sunniest spot of my driveway, and if anyone complains, I can drive it away. If I want to use the trailer to move something, I could weight my options of borrowing another trailer or removing the solar setup temporarily. 

All of this would be in the name of not just making money from the solar, but perhaps also learning how to apply it. Solar power is clearly growing as it gets more efficient and affordable. It’s possible that I might want to make a transition into focusing on it as a career. Maybe not. I spend lots of time on hobbies that don’t exactly lose money for me: classic cars, rental properties, home improvements. I enjoy these projects. I think this one could be fun. Cheap fun is even better. 

I bought a welder and decided to not waste time trying to learn to weld after lending it to a friend that setup a 6000 sq ft shop. When I need something welded, I just ask him to do it and give him a few bucks for hit time. This project could be one where I’d enjoy learning to weld myself. The welds on this trailer don’t have to look good. It’s a dumpster on wheels.

Will start new post for next topic on this…


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

I learned that there’s on-grid and off-grid inverters.

I believe I understand that on-grid inverters will not allow power to be produced when the grid power is out. This seems a little insane to me if it’s truly that simple. I understand that we don’t want linesmen getting electrocuted working with power that is supposed to be shut down upstream, but if there’s main cutoff switch on the house and a battery backup to stored generated power, it seems that solar panels should be able to produce power during an outage. …

Does that mean that with battery backup an on-grid inverter will allow you to produce power in an outage? 

All of this is pretty moot for ME for a permanent solar installation IMO. We rarely lose power where I live, and it’s probably cheaper to run a natural gas generator than it is to buy a battery backup and hope the solar can keep up. The environmental impact of the rare circumstances when I’d need to run a generator would be small IMO. So when I considered a Tesla Solar roof, I had them remove the batteries from the project plan. 

But for a TRAILER I would imagine that I’d want the solution to be as versatile as possible. I’d like it to be plugged in and generating power for the grid when parked next to a house, but it would be very convenient if it also had batteries and was cabals of providing 240 V power in a power outage of off grid. I have assumed that inverters can provide 240 V power, but guess it’s possible that they only provide 120 V. My lack of understanding of the need to balance the two legs of a 240 V system isn’t helping me with this. I guess it’s possible that power can be pumped into the grid with only 120 V. I guess that is probably how most of the power is pulled from our grid, so why not supply it the same way. 

That is my next research. 

Solar Inverters:
1) 120 V ? 240 V ? Other? Like 3 or even 4 phase?
2) on-grid vs off-grid, and if you can make an off-grid inverter work on-grid, and if there is any external protection that could automatically cut power when the grid power is lost?


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Ok. Now I’m just looking to see if there’s a simple resource for NEC code on installing solar. I see lots of DIY kits that already match the inverters, batteries and panels etc. but I’m more interested in learning what is truly required in order to make my own decisions on these items. 

I do want to see if it’s possible to legally connect a removable solar system from an on-grid connection. It looks like all the trailers mentioned above are OFF-Grid. So maybe this whole concept is essentially illegal.


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