# slight screeching AFTER brake pad replacement



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Hello experts
I changed the front brake pads on my 2015 Nissan Rogue. I bought Wearever pads at Advance Auto, and installed them. The new pads have a built-in meal shim, and I installed over that, the metallic shim that was on the old/original brake shoes that I took off. Of course, I applied brake grease to the outside of the metal shim that clips on.

As I drive, without braking, I hear a low volume but high-pitched squeal. I hear the same squeal when I press on the brakes; by the way, the pedal feels mushy and not hard as I've felt after other brake jobs on other cars.

Did I do something wrong? Is that metallic shim useless perhaps? It's obvious that something is rubbing and thus the screech. But why do I hear it when I'm driving??


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

A screech is METAL ON METAL, you have something not right, maybe the clip is wrong. 

Or you bought bi-metal pads, those sometimes have a slight squeal. 

I'm thinking that the metal clip is not right.

Pictures of the assembly would be good to show us .


ED


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> A screech is METAL ON METAL, you have something not right, maybe the clip is wrong.
> 
> Or you bought bi-metal pads, those sometimes have a slight squeal.
> 
> ...


thanks ED

What you mean by "the clip"? The 2 metal clips that are on the side?

I have a busy weekend, so I won't be able to take it apart. I will try it next Monday and take pictures.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Hello experts
> I changed the front brake pads on my 2015 Nissan Rogue. I bought Wearever pads at Advance Auto, and installed them. The new pads have a built-in meal shim, and I installed over that, the metallic shim that was on the old/original brake shoes that I took off. Of course, I applied brake grease to the outside of the metal shim that clips on.
> 
> As I drive, without braking, I hear a low volume but high-pitched squeal. I hear the same squeal when I press on the brakes; by the way, the pedal feels mushy and not hard as I've felt after other brake jobs on other cars.
> ...


 You said this clipped on, so I called it a clip.


ED


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> You said this clipped on, so I called it a clip.
> ED


Ahh yes. The brake pad has its own backing plate, and I added a metal shim that clips. So, in essence, I have the aluminum shim pressing against the metal of the pads backing plate. Should I have applied grease in between those 2 metals?

But, again, why would it squeal when I'm not braking??


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Brake squeal, is something (metal), dragging on the rotor surface, while turning. 

Remove the wheel assembly, BLOCK UP THE CAR, NO JACK SUPPORT, 
Turn the rotor by hand, and look for where the squeal is coming from.

This will show you what is dragging. 

Possibly the "clip", is too thick for the space provided.

As I said Bi- metal pads will have a slight squeal, did you buy Bi-metal pads, should say on the box.


ED


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

I don't understand the _extra_ metal "shim" you transfered over to the new pad, maybe the terminology is getting lost:

You have brake *pads* for disc brakes (not shoes for drums).
One of the pads has a (metal) *wear indicator* that can't be removed.
You have *anti-rattle clips* that the pads slide in, all housed on the *caliper* (new pad kit came with new ones?).
The pads are specifically shaped for each side of the *rotor*.

Did you replace the rotor? Is the caliper sticking? *Caliper pin* boots look ok?
I'll throw in *ABS sensor*, but that shouldn't make a squeal.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Not sure why you needed the extra shim... unless the originals had both metal backing plate AND an extra shim? But you could put a little brake grease in between. Also, new brakes may squeal a bit until they are used a bit and fully bedded. I'd drive them gently for a few days then head out somewhere with no traffic to bed them. Various ways to do this but a back to back series of firm brake applications from say 50 or 60 mph to 10 mph (don't stop)... like a set of 5... followed by about 10 or 15 minutes driving around to cool and then repeat. And whatever you do when you get the brakes hot like that don't stop and hold the pedal down. If you have to stop for some reason before they are cool use the parking brake to hold position.


----------



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Pictures would help.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> did you buy Bi-metal pads, should say on the box. ED


I threw the box away, and the listing in their website doesn't mention that. They're ceramic, if that helps.



3onthetree said:


> I don't understand the _extra_ metal "shim" you transfered over to the new pad, maybe the terminology is getting lost:
> You have brake *pads* for disc brakes (not shoes for drums).
> One of the pads has a (metal) *wear indicator* that can't be removed.
> You have *anti-rattle clips* that the pads slide in, all housed on the *caliper* (new pad kit came with new ones?).
> ...


I did not replace the rotor. The original pads had the metal shim, and so I thought that it would be needed with these. The new pads should have included new rattle clips, but they weren't in the box; I will return to the store to ask for them. THe caliper is not sticking; the brake pedal feels spongy and soft and not hard.



raylo32 said:


> Not sure why you needed the extra shim... unless the originals had both metal backing plate AND an extra shim? But you could put a little brake grease in between.


The originals had the metal shim. I shall add grease in between, or remove the second metal shim altogether.



Bigplanz said:


> Pictures would help.


I know. I will try to get some, if I don't fix it first.

Thanks all. I also didn't have brake cleaner fluid with me, so I didn't clean the area. If I return to the store to get the caliper clips, I will get some and clean.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mushy breaks, did you bleed air out?


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Nealtw said:


> Mushy breaks, did you bleed air out?


I took the cap of the reservoir. Does that do it?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Ceramics, are not Bi-metal, disregard my question.

As for spongy feel, you have not seated the pads yet, and there is going to be a soft feeling, until the pads get seated, Maybe the "clip", is holding the pads away from seating, and causing the squeal as well.

Do not drive it very far with a squealing metal to metal, this wears the rotor beyond safety specs, and then you replace the rotor. 

As I said block up the car when doing brake work, it is unsafe to be supported with just a jack.

I have had a few fall off the jack, and got pinned underneath.

That hurt immensely.


ED


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

NABRIL said:


> I took the cap of the reservoir. Does that do it?


 No


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

One other thing... if you are not replacing the rotors or getting them turned you should deglaze them with some sandpaper to help the new pads bed in better. I use 50 grit discs on a palm dual orbital sander. These don't really remove any metal, just rough up and scratch through the old glazed pad material so the new ones get a better bite. Will also help prevent squealing.


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

If the pads didn't come with rattle clips, they surely didn't have new shims either. Sounds like they're vibrating too much without a membrane or because there's no grease in between.

My standard practice is to replace rotors with any pad change. You certainly should be brushing off scale and cleaning all parts though.


----------



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Hard brake material will last longer but are more likely to squeak too.


----------



## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

It's either the pad shims hitting rotor or the backing plate hitting rotor. More than likely it's the shims.:vs_cool:


----------



## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

did OP bed the pads in?


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

u3b3rg33k said:


> did OP bed the pads in?


I never heard of that or knew to do it. I will do so after the inspection.. Thanks


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Ok. I took both sides apart. Without the wheel on, spinning the rotor didn't produce screeching. I cleaned the area, and replaced the caliper clips just because.
The picture shows the metal shim I mentioned and 2 black u shaped clips or hooks (on the left of the Pic) that are usually screwed on or bolted to the pads; mine aren't, and I don't see a way to attach them at all.

EDIT: Using common sense, I will assume that it clips to the side, as in the second picture. Now. Which side of the pad to clip it to. Does it matter?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That top piece that you are calling a shim, looks to me to be the remnants of the old pad, discard it. 

The clips go on to hold the new pads in the caliper, only you with eyes on the caliper, and pads can decide how it attaches the pad to the caliper, we are not there to see and say. 

And if that " shim" is remnants, the rotor must be in terrible shape, and will wear the new out quickly, need a picture of both inner and outer of the rotor, to be sure. 



ED


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

See this video. 




and this pic.

See the little rectangular shapes at the diagonal corners on the bottom of the pads? Those clips go there. You can see the clips in the lower left of the pic. The 2 parts of the clip that stick out clip around the backing plate. The long end goes towards the back of the pad, the short end goes towards the friction surface (blue block in pic). You may need to bend the smaller of the tabs so that it will grab onto the pad backing plate (red block in pic).


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

huesmann said:


> See the little rectangular shapes at the diagonal corners on the bottom of the pads? Those clips go there. You can see the clips in the lower left of the pic. The 2 parts of the clip that stick out clip around the backing plate. The long end goes towards the back of the pad, the short end goes towards the friction surface (blue block in pic). You may need to bend the smaller of the tabs so that it will grab onto the pad backing plate (red block in pic).


thanks a lot Hue. I saw those corner indented slots and thought that the indicator clip could go there, but the clip itself was too tight to clamp at that spot. So, I clipped it to the indentation on the right tan since it clipped perfectly When I do my next oil change and tire rotation, I will take it apart and open up the clip so as to attach it to the diagonal corner slot.


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

FWIW I believe those little clips are your wear indicators, so they are kind of optional, as long as you keep an eye on your brake pads thickness.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

huesmann said:


> FWIW I believe those little clips are your wear indicators, so they are kind of optional, as long as you keep an eye on your brake pads thickness.


you're right, and that's a good point.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And rotors don't cost what the used to. Usually by the time the pads are done you'd get new rotors anyway.



huesmann said:


> FWIW I believe those little clips are your wear indicators, so they are kind of optional, as long as you keep an eye on your brake pads thickness.


----------



## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> And rotors don't cost what the used to. Usually by the time the pads are done you'd get new rotors anyway.


good rotors still cost a lot, cheap rotor at 25$ dont last 2 years without warping or rust here in the north


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's a picture of a rotor. I spun it but I did not hear the squealing. Of course this is only the right side which is the one where I hear the noise coming from while I drive


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Gonna have to disagree. Sure you can spend a fortune on specialty racing rotors but even many OEM are relatively cheap nowadays. For instance my Corvette Z51 OEM rotors are $92. After running off a set or 2 of pads no way I am going to pay $25 to have each one resurfaced... if anyone even offers that service anymore and if it is that cheap even. And there are plenty of cheaper aftermarket rotors that are just fine for daily driving... even in long suffering New England. There is one particular brand that is very popular in the Corvette world that sells rotor and pad package for all 4 wheels for $400. They work just fine... and last a long time.

I have never had a warped disc which is mostly a myth anyway. A lot of the pulsating brakes are due to driver holding down the pedal when the brakes are hot which cause uneven deposition of brake material. My GF is a champ at that.

I don't know a single person who has rotors resurfaced in maybe 15 years. Maybe I don't get out enough. ;-)

QUOTE=carmusic;5866523]good rotors still cost a lot, cheap rotor at 25$ dont last 2 years without warping or rust here in the north[/QUOTE]


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Ok, my dear brake pad family
Here is my latest. I just finished the 3rd lift of the car using the included car jack (twist); I do not own a hydraulic shop lift, of course, nor a 3.5 ton jack. So, each lift involves the standard car lift jack. While I seek that DIY victory that we've all felt, I'm getting tired and annoyed with this concept that the pads are winning against me. 
As you can see from the post right before this one, the rotor looks fine.

I spun both rotors with and without the tire, and I did not hear any squeal. Thirty minutes before that, I heard the squeal as I drove along. I removed that metal shim, and I re-greased the metal-backing of all 4 pads. I re-assembled everything, and took the car for a quick drive around my neighborhood. The pedal feels 1/10 less mushy, but mushy nonetheless. I hear the squeal and a thhhhh sound as I press the pedal. As I drove up my garage and braked, I heard the low-volume squeal; after releasing the brakes and still rolling slowly, a lower squeal continued.

Aghhh

I have not had an opportunity to bed the pads, but will try to get it done in the next couple of days.

An observation: the caliper clips have 2 spring-loaded and round hooks on both sides, and I noticed that when the pad is set in its proper place, it can either catch that spring-loaded little leg or not. If it catches that little leg, it forces the pad away from the rotor (because of the slight tension of the spring). Should the pad catch that little leg?
The "little leg' is circled in red in the attached picture.

EDIT: according to this video, 



, at the 10:00 mark, he has to squeeze the pads in, which implies that the springs in the caliper clip are pushing the pad out. Damn.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Looking at the picture of the rotor, it don't look new , actually quite worn, but pictures are hard to gauge the depth of the grooving on. 

There should be little to no grooving, they really look like they were ran quite a while with no pad material, and could stand re-surfacing, or replaced. 

Those springs can be installed upside down, and cause some screeching, try to flip them over to see what they do.


ED


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> Looking at the picture of the rotor, it don't look new , actually quite worn, but pictures are hard to gauge the depth of the grooving on.
> 
> There should be little to no grooving, they really look like they were ran quite a while with no pad material, and could stand re-surfacing, or replaced.
> 
> ...


Hmm, ok. I don't recall how deep the groves are. I ran a cloth over the rotor and didn't get much resistance, so maybe the grooves aren't that deep???

The springs are installed face up as the original ones were, so those little legs are facing away from the rotors. But, should they push the brake pad away from the rotor?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Hmm, ok. I don't recall how deep the groves are. I ran a cloth over the rotor and didn't get much resistance, so maybe the grooves aren't that deep???
> 
> The springs are installed face up as the original ones were, so those little legs are facing away from the rotors. But, should they push the brake pad away from the rotor?


Yes; the pads should ride a "hairs breadth" away from the rotor, or you are wearing the pads off too soon. 


ED


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Some cars have pads that truly float, others have pads with springs to push them back away from the rotor face when you let off the brakes.

If you plan to do any more work on your car I recommend buying an inexpensive floor jack. You can get one at Harbor Freight for $30. Get a pair of jack stands too @ $24.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

huesmann said:


> If you plan to do any more work on your car I recommend buying an inexpensive floor jack. You can get one at Harbor Freight for $30. Get a pair of jack stands too @ $24.


Trust me, I see those jacks in every one of their email reminders. I even caved in and bought a low profile one, but it did not lift the car enough, so I returned it. I'm eyeing the $79 3-ton jack, but I keep saying "nahh. Use the jack that came with the car no matter how tough it is to turn that crank". I own the stands, so at least I have those. I thought about buying a cheaper bottle jack, but I read that those aren't good for lifting cars since they are narrow and can easily tip over.
I asked a repair shop once if i can somehow buy a used one, and they quoted $150 or more.

Thanks again


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Those rotors do look groovy/rusty...i.e. well used. And the edges look raised compared to the main rotor surface. How many miles on them? Did you measure their thickness? 



NABRIL said:


> Hmm, ok. I don't recall how deep the groves are. I ran a cloth over the rotor and didn't get much resistance, so maybe the grooves aren't that deep???
> 
> The springs are installed face up as the original ones were, so those little legs are facing away from the rotors. But, should they push the brake pad away from the rotor?


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> Those rotors do look groovy/rusty...i.e. well used. And the edges look raised compared to the main rotor surface. How many miles on them? Did you measure their thickness?


47K miles, and I did not measure the thickness. And perhaps they do look groovy. If I zoom in to the picture, the surface has quite a few lines on it.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

If it was me, I'd replace those. You'll have a better and longer lasting result. Good chance they will reach minimum thickness spec before the next pads are worn out... if they aren't there already.

Are you hard on the brakes? That seems like low miles for needing new pads or rotors. It varies by vehicle, of course, but most of mine go about 75,000 or so.



NABRIL said:


> 47K miles, and I did not measure the thickness. And perhaps they do look groovy. If I zoom in to the picture, the surface has quite a few lines on it.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Trust me, I see those jacks in every one of their email reminders. I even caved in and bought a low profile one, but it did not lift the car enough, so I returned it. I'm eyeing the $79 3-ton jack, but I keep saying "nahh. Use the jack that came with the car no matter how tough it is to turn that crank". I own the stands, so at least I have those. I thought about buying a cheaper bottle jack, but I read that those aren't good for lifting cars since they are narrow and can easily tip over.
> I asked a repair shop once if i can somehow buy a used one, and they quoted $150 or more.
> 
> Thanks again


Often a PAWN SHOP, has good hydraulic jack for way less than any rebuilder, or new store. 

Then there is "garbage" sales every weekend everywhere, so be looking at these deals.


ED


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> Are you hard on the brakes? That seems like low miles for needing new pads or rotors. It varies by vehicle, of course, but most of mine go about 75,000 or so.


I don't think that I'm hard on them as I drive around Miami. Forty thousand miles seems like a low amount of miles for rotors to go. The previous pads were 3 or 4mm thin or so, so perhaps that finished the damage to the rotors.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

You really should get a good floor jack... or better yet something like a QuickJack setup if you are going to be doing this sort of work. But I guess having to repeatedly raise the car with the little crank jack will make you strong like bull!


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have one he could take for free. Old 1.5T Craftsman that I never use anymore since I bought a QuickJack. But it would be cheaper to buy a new one than ship this to Miami!



de-nagorg said:


> Often a PAWN SHOP, has good hydraulic jack for way less than any rebuilder, or new store.
> 
> Then there is "garbage" sales every weekend everywhere, so be looking at these deals.
> 
> ...


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The rotors may (or may not) be OK thickness but sure could use to be resurfaced. But as discussed above I am not sure you can even find someone to do that anymore and it may be cost prohibitive as compared to new rotors. But you could check around.

Go to a box store and get a digital reading calipers and measure your rotors. Look up the spec with Google or whatever. But make sure to measure where they are thinnest, not on the raised edges.



NABRIL said:


> I don't think that I'm hard on them as I drive around Miami. Forty thousand miles seems like a low amount of miles for rotors to go. The previous pads were 3 or 4mm thin or so, so perhaps that finished the damage to the rotors.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

raylo32 said:


> The rotors may (or may not) be OK thickness but sure could use to be resurfaced. But as discussed above I am not sure you can even find someone to do that anymore and it may be cost prohibitive as compared to new rotors. But you could check around.
> 
> Go to a box store and get a digital reading calipers and measure your rotors. Look up the spec with Google or whatever. But make sure to measure where they are thinnest, not on the raised edges.


And then factor in the resurfacing, that will take even more "meat" of them. 

And when they get thin, you will have weak support to stop with. 

ED


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> I don't think that I'm hard on them as I drive around Miami. Forty thousand miles seems like a low amount of miles for rotors to go. The previous pads were 3 or 4mm thin or so, so perhaps that finished the damage to the rotors.


40,000 miles in big city stop and go traffic, is similar to 120,000 miles in the less populated places like Wyoming. 

Using brakes anyway. 

So factor in the difference. 

I'm going to say that you are due for a complete brake overhaul.

ED


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And THAT is when rotors really will warp, once they are below min thickness.



de-nagorg said:


> And then factor in the resurfacing, that will take even more "meat" of them.
> 
> And when they get thin, you will have weak support to stop with.
> 
> ED


----------



## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

huesmann said:


> If you plan to do any more work on your car I recommend buying an inexpensive floor jack. You can get one at Harbor Freight for $30. Get a pair of jack stands too @ $24.



I bought a Harbor Freight aluminum racing jack. Worked great for about 5 years and then the piston o-rings apparently wore out and the jack would not function any longer. I tried to find replacement o-rings but Pittsburgh, the manufacturer of Harbor Freight jacks, do not provide any after purchase support or replacement parts. I guess I got my money's worth though.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I've lived in Idaho and been to Wyoming. Hell, Ed, I am surprised you even know how to work on brakes out there. Should be good for life!



de-nagorg said:


> 40,000 miles in big city stop and go traffic, is similar to 120,000 miles in the less populated places like Wyoming.
> 
> Using brakes anyway.
> 
> ...


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm still a bit confused, the screech goes away when rotated by hand, but is present anytime you drive whether the brake is applied or not? 

The Wearever pads (silver or gold line) say they come with a new shim already. Are you adding the original one on top of that? The silver line is just pads, the gold line is all hardware included.

What kind of grease are you using for the shim? Using proper lube on the anti-rattles? You've checked caliper pins, the caliper is working correctly, you've installed the clips correctly, etc?

I know Infinity's (Nissan) bearings can go out early, but you said the screech stops.

Rotors should be new at each pad change. They are now designed as replaceable and made cheaply with Chinese metal and I have seen them delaminate even around 60K. Also, you will get a soft pedal for some miles until the pads bed.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

raylo32 said:


> I've lived in Idaho and been to Wyoming. Hell, Ed, I am surprised you even know how to work on brakes out there. Should be good for life!


Yeah; we consider NEXT DOOR as 50 miles away. :wink2:

Sometimes weeks will go by without seeing another human being. 

Ain't it great?


ED


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I guess you still need brakes that work to avoid the occasional jackrabbit!



de-nagorg said:


> Yeah; we consider NEXT DOOR as 50 miles away. :wink2:
> 
> Sometimes weeks will go by without seeing another human being.
> 
> ...


----------



## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

Cheap rotors are easy to warp with snow/slush, just need to have hot brakes and get some slush and its done, i had some last less than a year with hard winter conditions we had, ive gone back with reputable company (raybestos or similar) and now these last a lot longer (still have the same for 5 years now)


----------



## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Sometimes the cheap import knockoffs are thinner than the minimum thickness straight out of the box. guess they must've measured a worn out rotor to copy.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

3onthetree said:


> I'm still a bit confused, the screech goes away when rotated by hand, but is present anytime you drive whether the brake is applied or not?
> 
> The Wearever pads (silver or gold line) say they come with a new shim already. Are you adding the original one on top of that? The silver line is just pads, the gold line is all hardware included.
> 
> ...


Yes. As I drive, I can hear a low and distant squeal, and a low thhhhh sound as if the caliper clip was scraping against the rotor. I used the little packet of grease offered at the store. All hardware appears to be installed correctly. The caliper clips are far away from the rotor, and I spun it by hand yielding no noise.



carmusic said:


> Cheap rotors are easy to warp with snow/slush, just need to have hot brakes and get some slush and its done, i had some last less than a year with hard winter conditions we had, ive gone back with reputable company (raybestos or similar) and now these last a lot longer (still have the same for 5 years now)


I live in Miami


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Real stupid question, if installed correctly and screech only when driving, you sure its the front right (can't remember which side) and not the back?


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

3onthetree said:


> Real stupid question, if installed correctly and screech only when driving, you sure its the front right (can't remember which side) and not the back?


Yes, 3on3
That question lurks in the back of my head. I assume that the rear brakes last longer (I don't know why I think that - because the front takes the brunt of the braking force????), and thus I have not even looked at the rear. I know, I should have from moment one.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Yes, 3on3
> That question lurks in the back of my head. I assume that the rear brakes last longer (I don't know why I think that - because the front takes the brunt of the braking force????), and thus I have not even looked at the rear. I know, I should have from moment one.


You are correct, the front brakes wear faster, up to three times as fast as the rear ones. 

That said, sometimes a pebble gets tossed up just right and gets trapped in the pads, and cause a hiss, squeak, grind, noise.

So it won't hurt (much) to take a look at all corners of the car brakes. 


ED


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Yah, but it's still good to always replace the rear at the same time (you only spent either $21 or $49 on front pads) while you have everything handy. I just asked about the back because I don't know how far you hung your head out the window to pinpoint where the screech is or even if you lowered the windows (saw Miami had record high temps).


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> NABRIL said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, 3on3
> ...


Will either of you punch me in the nose or I will do it myself. 
I haf my daughter lean out the window, and she identified the screech coming from the rear right. 

It's time, I guess, for new rear pads...


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Will either of you punch me in the nose or I will do it myself.
> I haf my daughter lean out the window, and she identified the screech coming from the rear right.
> 
> It's time, I guess, for new rear pads...


Well if you insist.

:vs_box::vs_box: This is supposed to be boxing, but it looks like cheerleading. 



Stuff happens. 

Now you know, so have fun.


ED


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Spinning the rotors by hand only reveals some obvious things like a rotor warp that makes contact every turn. The hand spinning doesn't get the rotor up to the same rpm as driving it, even if you are hearing it at fairly low automobile speeds. 

Assuming the rear pads are OK is a mistake, you need to inspect them. Even though they generally get less wear than the front pads, there are things that can cause them to fail prematurely. 

On a lot of vehicles, the rear brake pads are also the parking brake pads. If the parking brake does not fully release, is adjusted too tight, or someone likes to rest their left foot on it while driving ( which may partially apply the brake), you can burn thru the rear brakes faster than the front.

If you cannot run the noise down and fix it, take it to someone that can. Noises from the brakes are an indication something is wrong.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> so have fun.
> ED


You helpful, but sarcastic man.
Lots of fun. Why didn't I check the rear at the beginning? This post wouldn't have 6 pages!!
I ordered the rear pads and front rotors in case I decide to replace them.

I won't even mention the rear rotors on this rainy Friday.....


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Don't make me come down there.

With the noise, you already suspect that the rear rotors are bad too, so why not go ahead and order them, that way you will just repair all at once ONE TIME, instead of having to raise the car again and again, to keep doing a half -way brake repair. 

And if you do not need the rotors right now, either return them, or store them until you do need them?

:devil3: 

No cryin in the rain now, there is no crying in auto repair.

That only happens after you can't stop and hit a wall or something. 


ED


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Another thing to check when you lift the rear. Put it in neutral and spin the wheels. Calipers can seize up and wear right through the pads and cause a steady screech/squeal. If that's the case you'll be in for replacing everything. You could rebuild the calipers but decent remans aren't too expensive.



NABRIL said:


> Will either of you punch me in the nose or I will do it myself.
> I haf my daughter lean out the window, and she identified the screech coming from the rear right.
> 
> It's time, I guess, for new rear pads...


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Alright.
I am stocked and ready with rear rotors and rear brake pads. I discovered at the store that rotors are sold individually and not in pairs... I once bought a pair of them in 1 box.

I will take apart the rear and examine.
1. Is it possible/acceptable to only replace 1 rotor if only 1 looks bad or squeals? A voice tells me that I will need to replace both, unless I can measure the thickness of the old one to determine if it lost a lot of surface. I am betting that the squealing initially reported is because my rear brakes are down to the wear indicator, and perhaps the rotor may be bad. Yes, I also read the previous posts from some of you that replace rotors whenever pads are replaced. While that sounds nice and practical, maybe it's a bit of overkill since rotors can last for a long time, no? I state my opinion, and I'm not arguing. I simply am not used to thinking that rotors need to be replaced often, but I also see that rotors are not overly expensive.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Alright.
> I am stocked and ready with rear rotors and rear brake pads. I discovered at the store that rotors are sold individually and not in pairs... I once bought a pair of them in 1 box.
> 
> I will take apart the rear and examine.
> 1. Is it possible/acceptable to only replace 1 rotor if only 1 looks bad or squeals? *A voice tells me that I will need to replace both, unless I can measure the thickness of the old one to determine if it lost a lot of surface. I am betting that the squealing initially reported is because my rear brakes are down to the wear indicator, and perhaps the rotor may be bad. Yes, I also read the previous posts from some of you that replace rotors whenever pads are replaced. While that sounds nice and practical, maybe it's a bit of overkill since rotors can last for a long time, no? I state my opinion, and I'm not arguing. I simply am not used to thinking that rotors need to be replaced often, but I also see that rotors are not overly expensive.


* This depends on the thickness difference of the new rotor, and the old one kept in service on the other side. Too much difference and the thicker one will grab first and cause the vehicle to "pull" to that side first while stopping, and an unsuspecting driver could lose control of the vehicle. 

As for changing rotors at the same time as the pads, only if needed, you are right the pads wear out first, that is how they are designed.

And I only change rotors if they are wore beyond tolerances. Otherwise you are wasting the customers money to pad your own pocket. 

Yes there are shops that do that.


ED


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

CHAPTER 19 - CLOSURE
Dear Internet 
I was born in 1969 and I'm still trying to figure out how I survived and grew up without you.

I have attached a picture of the rear rotor and pad, and i ask you to cry or laugh or shout. Wholly cow those pads were thin. 
After the replacement, the mush is gone, as well ad the thhhhh and the squeal. And life continues on. 

Thank you all truly for holding my hand in this frustrating but educational adventure of a relatively simple task.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

So it sounds like the noises you were hearing were the rear pad wear sensors.


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Yeah. Your pads still have the dust slots, so they're not _that_ bad.


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

I like how you kept your sense of humor while it took 60 posts to decipher the words since we are not there to see it. Look at the bright side, you should be real efficient in jacking up and taking wheels off, so now you can join a NASCAR pit team.

We'll see you back here in 50K miles for the idler pulley squeal you'll be hearing!


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Or sooner probably, since often when you do a pad slap brake job the old rotors go off before the new pads wear out.



3onthetree said:


> We'll see you back here in 50K miles for the idler pulley squeal you'll be hearing!


----------



## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

raylo32 said:


> Or sooner probably, since often when you do a pad slap brake job the old rotors go off before the new pads wear out.


Yah, I was attempting an analogy joke when next he asks what he hears under the hood is something huge when just his idler arm pulley went bad at 100K.


----------



## NABRIL (Apr 29, 2011)

Laugh it up boys. What's an idler arm pulley?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

NABRIL said:


> Laugh it up boys. What's an idler arm pulley?


:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:

It is used to adjust tension on the belts that drive the alternator, air conditioner compressor, water pump and cooling fan. 

under the hood, on the front of the engine, unless the engine is transverse mounted.

Then the pulley is mounted on the side closest to the timing belt.

Clear enough? :devil3:

ED 

Thanks for the laugh.:vs_cool:


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

What's an idler arm pulley?
Out here, most people say belt tensioner or fan belt tensioner.

Any of those works for me.


----------

