# Pressure treated lumber inside



## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

Ok, I may be paranoid but I believe my husband used pressure treated wood to build a bed frame for our bed. We didn't like the head and foot board that we had so he used the metal frame we had and attached wooden legs to it. I'm aware that you shouldn't use pressure treated wood indoors. I had forgotten about the wood but noticed it today when vacuuming. We also have a one year old in the home. I'm not familiar enough with these things to know of this is truly hazardous or not. My husband will think I'm nuts. 

What's the scoop?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Is the pressure treated wood , newer wood , or older wood?

It matters because old PT was treated with Arsenic, but the newer stuff is not. 

ED


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## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

It's newer (purchased within the last three years) I believe. I it's sort of a moot point. He won't change it anyhow. He was burning the old headboard which we painted earlier. He didn't listen to me about toxic fumes.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

No real harm should come from the newer ACQ treated lumber---
It is a poor choice for furniture wood but your little one will not be in any danger.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If it will make you feel any better, I've been cutting, ripping, demoing, installing, treated lumber for about 30 yrs. It has never made me sick.
I would be more worried about the food.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/11/arsenic-in-your-food/index.htm


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Pressure treated wood shrinks, cups, warps, and needs all ACQ approved fastener's or there going to rust out shortly.
The newer pressure treated wood is treated with copper which cases electrolysis when in contact with steel fasters.


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

Relax. You'll be fine. There are probably more chemicals emanating from your carpets then there are from all of the PT in your bed, your deck, and everywhere else.


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## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

I have a male shift gun cabinet that was passed down to us that we finally cleaned out after getting a safe. I was thinking if using it for storage of other items but since it's older, I'm not sure if it has PT wood that's harmful. Any ideas on how I could tell of its PT? There is a stamp on one of the pieces of plywood. It says it's from APA and it says B-C EXTERIOR (roofs, walls, floors) space panels. I do see Feb 97 on it. Would this be PT?


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## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

Here is a pic


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No it's not pressure treated.
Really need to be adding your own post not adding onto someone else's if your asking a question and not replying to a post.
Confusing trying to keep the answers straight.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

I am old fashioned...so would not have my bed frame made of PT wood. Period. I HAVE to live with whatever comes off of the plywood, rugs, etc. I do NOT have to add the PT bedframe. Just not a great idea. Ron


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## jimn (Nov 13, 2010)

Who knows what off gasses from pressure treated wood. But it does contain chemicals designed to kill pests, molds and other things that facilitate the rotting of wood. For the same reason I buy Organic food for the dirty dozen when ever possible I wouldn't knowingly introduce a poison into my home for no apparent reason. Also most pressure treated lumber is southern pine. And it doesn't look very good for anything other than decks, and even then if you can afford it there are more attractive choices for a deck and it shrinks, cracks and otherwise distorts easily. Treating a termite infestation would like require the use of a pesticide that I would rather not, but might have any other choice. I speak from experience on the later. 

Your hubby may not worry to much about inhaling smoke from burning construction waste but it does release many nasty substances which is certainly aren't healthy food. Go talk to some pipe fitters from through the 50's . Ask them what they think of asbestos now. Then it was considered inhert. There are some environmental hazards I can't avoid. Why purposefully create one or potentially create one?


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## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

I guess I'm just going to have to stress and worry about the bed frame because my husband isn't going to redo it. He thinks there is no harm. What's funny is I buys all organic food for the baby and now I've got this wood that I can't do anything about that is possibly harming him.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

dimples4christ said:


> Ok, I may be paranoid but I believe my husband used pressure treated wood to build a bed frame for our bed. We didn't like the head and foot board that we had so he used the metal frame we had and attached wooden legs to it. I'm aware that you shouldn't use pressure treated wood indoors. I had forgotten about the wood but noticed it today when vacuuming. We also have a one year old in the home. I'm not familiar enough with these things to know of this is truly hazardous or not. *My husband will think I'm nuts. *
> 
> What's the scoop?


Ayuh,.... After readin' this,... I have to agree,.....:whistling2:


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Okay, this is from Conrad Forest Products involving case studies.
Is Wolmanized wood safe around people, plants, and pets?
Wolmanized wood has a history of 60 years of safe use. Most concerns about treated wood arise from confusion between the preservative and the preservative-treated wood.


In laboratory tests, in garden and vegetable studies, in investigations of playground structures, in surveys of carpenters and treating plant workers, and in other research conducted by various organizations, CCA-treated wood has been shown to be harmless when used as recommended.

EPA conducted an 8-year examination and determined that benefits outweighed risks. The agency recommended only modest precautions, nearly all of which also apply to untreated wood. (See the Consumer Information Sheet.)

Wolmanized wood has been used for decades for tomato stakes, grape stakes, mushroom trays, planter boxes, and bird houses with no known adverse effects. It is used in national parks, botanical gardens, and wildlife sanctuaries.

Effects of Chemical Preservatives on the Health of Wood Treating Workers in Hawaii

F.I. Gilbert, M.D.; C.E. Minn, M.S.P.H.;
R.C. Duncan, PhD.;
T. Aldrich, M.S.P.H.; W.H. Lederer, PhD.;
J.E. Wilkinson, M.S.
Pacific Health Research Institute, 1981

Cohort-Comparison Health Examination
The study cohort consisted of 66 men currently employed as wood treaters for at least the three months prior to examination and 22 men who had worked at least 12 months as wood treaters since 1960, had at least 3 months continuous service, and were currently not wood treaters. Fifty-eight matched controls and three unmatched controls were chosen of similar age (+/- 5 years), race, sex, weight (+/- 10 lbs) and level of physical activity. Controls were chosen from friends of wood treaters or from members of other craft or industrial unions. Matched controls were not found for thirty study cohort members.

Examination included a nurse interview on work history, pesticide exposure, reproductive history, recent (one year) health history and personal lifestyle habits. Physiological tests included height, weight, blood pressure, pulse, respiratory rate, skinfold thickness test, hearing test, visual acuity, peripheral and color vision and tine test for tuberculosis. Clinical laboratory tests included a complete blood count, biochemical profile and a urinalysis. A physical and neurological examination was conducted by the project physician and a first morning voiding urine was examined for levels of arsenic, copper, chromium, penta and tin. Each examinee had completed at home two general health questionnaires and a seven day diet and medication report.

Eighty-eight of the men known ever to have worked as wood treaters in Hawaii between 1960 and 1981 participated in this study. The other 94 included those who died (6), left the island (15), were unavailable (42), refused (31) or did not meet the criteria. The duration of wood treating employment was from 4 months to over 26 years with a median of 6.5 years. Thirty-three of the 88 workers had over 10 years employment. Urine pesticide residue studies found greater penta levels in the wood-treater group than in the controls, no detectable tin levels in any sample and no statistically significant difference between the groups in levels of the other metals. Urinary chromium levels were above laboratory norms for both groups. Urine arsenic levels were lower for white treaters than for others, and urine penta levels were higher for non-white treaters than for others.

The authors report significant differences between treaters and non-treaters in serum protein levels, heart rate, systolic blood pressure, left eye pressure and skinfold thickness at the scapula. Treaters and non-treaters did not differ in reproductive history (number of children fathered), recent health history, physical or neurological findings, with the exception that treaters more frequently reported stiffness or welling in the joints (25 percent vs. 9 percent).

Special analyses of specific findings versus pesticide residue levels found no associations.
The authors concluded that review of all organ systems and laboratory data showed no clinically significant differences between exposed and nonexposed cohorts.

Historical Prospective Mortality Study and Cancer Morbidity

The 12 men who had ever been employed in the Hawaiian wood treating industry for at least three months during the period January 1960 to November 1981 constituted the study population. The 88 who participated in the clinical study in 1982 were obviously alive in November 1981. Additionally, 31 responded to the study inquiry but declined to participate, 15 had moved off the island of Oahu but were known to be alive, 11 could not be contacted although they were reported as living, six were known to be dead and for 31 there was no information. Records for 125 of the 182 wood treaters were available for the 21 year period, for whom the authors calculate eight deaths would have been expected. These deaths would have included 4 from cardiovascular causes, 3 from cancer and 1 of other causes. In fact, six deaths were known five from cardiovascular causes and one of unknown causes in the Philippines.

Three cases of cancer were known, one of bladder cancer and two of colorectal cancer. The ages at time of diagnosis were 56, 63 and 73, respectively.

The authors conclude that this study indicated no adverse health effects or increased incidence of mortality resulting from exposure to wood preservative chemicals in the treatment workers evaluated.

back 

Carpenter Study

Pacific Biomedical Research Center, 1977

In Hawaii, where over 45,000 homes had been built almost entirely of Wolmanized wood, a study was conducted by the Pacific Biomedical Research Center of the University of Hawaii to determine any possible effect on the health of carpenters. The study covered periods both before and after Wolmanized wood was introduced in Hawaii. The authors of this study conclude that exposure to dust from such wood is not associated with increased risk of total cancer, lung cancer or lymphatic cancer. These data, which constitute the best epidemiological evidence available on treated wood, clearly show that excess respiratory cancer mortality was not observed in the carpenters exposed to arsenically-treated sawdust. In fact, OSHA has acknowledged this difference between inorganic arsenic and the arsenate compounds found in treated wood. OSHA notes:

"In the Budy-Rashad study, the carpenters were not exposed to pentavalent arsenic, but rather to a stable arsenic-wood complex. Thus, carpenter exposure to this arsenic-wood complex cannot be considered a priori equivalent to exposure to unbound pentavalent arsenic. " (43 Federal Register 19,599 - May 5, 1978)

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Raised Bed Garden Study

Hickson Corporation, 1992

Three raised bed structures were constructed: one built with untreated wood, one with Wolmanized wood and one with Wolmanized Extra water repellent lumber. These structures were divided into individual compartments, 8.5" x 10.5" and 5.5" high, so that the bottom and all sides of each compartment were of the same material.

Various vegetables were planted in the structures. After 12 weeks, the vegetables were harvested and portions were analyzed for CCA components. Vegetables obtained from a local grocery store were also analyzed.

All vegetables, including those grown in untreated compartments and those purchased in a store, contained minuscule amounts of each CCA element that were well within accepted parts per million limits.

The rest of the story can be found here....
http://www.conradfp.com/treated-wood-safe.shtml





..


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I worked with pressure treated wood for years. The third eye and flippers I grew are just fine and healthy. :whistling2:


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## bilug (Apr 16, 2014)

Seems like the issue might be more based on cost for me. Why spend the extra money on PT when it isn't needed??


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Again, without regard for what others think, or how many workmen tested ok after dealing with PT, I am NOT having it in my house......even LESS so with the baby....who will crawl....and chew on anything around.

But I am likely wasting my time here so enjoy the bedframe. Ron


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> I worked with pressure treated wood for years. The third eye and flippers I grew are just fine and healthy. :whistling2:


:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yea Rusty..... I agree it's not hurt you....But that is considering what you started with....


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## musick (Dec 11, 2014)

ront02769 said:


> Again, without regard for what others think, or how many workmen tested ok after dealing with PT, I am NOT having it in my house......even LESS so with the baby....who will crawl....and chew on anything around.
> 
> But I am likely wasting my time here so enjoy the bedframe. Ron


Ron, I agree. I've worked with pt for years, including burning it on job sites. I've also worked with the underground PT, suppose to be treated heavier. After cutting that stuff all day, my eyes burned and very irritated. I don't want my baby teething on that stuff. Maby If rocked over, only where needed. Bottom plates in basements.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

musick said:


> Ron, I agree. I've worked with pt for years, including burning it on job sites. I've also worked with the underground PT, suppose to be treated heavier. After cutting that stuff all day, my eyes burned and very irritated. I don't want my baby teething on that stuff. Maby If rocked over, only where needed. Bottom plates in basements.


My bad, I should have said exposed. Of course anything in contact with the foundation, even a spare stud that I had around that would be covered over with drywall. But NOT something like a bedframe, dresser, chair, whatever. Ron


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## TimPa (Aug 15, 2010)

one option would be to seal/paint it, if it hasn't been already. my guess that it is acclimated to the house now, so sealing should minimize or prevent any possible outgassing.


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## dimples4christ (May 30, 2014)

It's not the entire frame, just the four posts around the bed. My baby doesn't go in the room. There is no way for me to physically fix the problem myself and my husband thinks it's harmless. He will not change it. He knows my fear of PT wood and purposely told me it wasn't PT wood. So, now I can only worry about the ill affects it will have on my child. 

Thanks for the help.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Seems most are stuck thinking about the old arsenic based PT Which unless he dug up old boards he did not use the arsenic ones. And the analogy of the pipe fitters and such makes no sense since the guys that were affected by it were around all day every day where it was being ground and sanded and the fibers were in the air constantly.

If your really this paranoid over 4 or 5 boards please don't read up on some of the other things in your home or you'll be living in a tent.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

ToolSeeker said:


> Seems most are stuck thinking about the old arsenic based PT Which unless he dug up old boards he did not use the arsenic ones. And the analogy of the pipe fitters and such makes no sense since the guys that were affected by it were around all day every day where it was being ground and sanded and the fibers were in the air constantly.
> 
> If your really this paranoid over 4 or 5 boards please don't read up on some of the other things in your home *or you'll be living in a tent.*


Ayuh,.... Better not live in a tent, it'll capture Radon fumes leachin' outa the ground,....

Mother Earth is out to kill Us All, ya know,.....:whistling2:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

We are just an infestation, messing up what she spent millennia building just the way she likes it.

:laughing::laughing:


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

ToolSeeker said:


> Seems most are stuck thinking about the old arsenic based PT Which unless he dug up old boards he did not use the arsenic ones. And the analogy of the pipe fitters and such makes no sense since the guys that were affected by it were around all day every day where it was being ground and sanded and the fibers were in the air constantly.
> 
> If your really this paranoid over 4 or 5 boards please don't read up on some of the other things in your home or you'll be living in a tent.


To be crystal clear AGAIN before quitting the thread, I am NOT stuck with the "old" PT. PT is simply NOT going in my house anywhere that it is not required....ESP in my bedroom where the kids WILL eventually make their way to. Plus, as others have mentioned, it warps, checks, has Yack running out of it, etc. (and how do I know? Since I used it for garage sills and door frames a couple of months back).z. So now totally over and out, now my problem. Ron


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

First of all who lets a baby chew on wood? Before the "you don't know how teething babies act" statement comes up, I have two kids so I've been there and done that. In fact my son who is 7 is more likely to chew on stuff he shouldn't now then when he was a baby. They make baby gates for a reason...

Second, since we all know kids chew on what ever they can find, would it be better that they chew on a stained piece of glued, steamed and pressed together chunk of "wood" then a PT wood? No neither would really be acceptable. 

While new PT wood really poses no more danger then a lot of things, it doesn't make a great finished building material.



On of the things I always like to remember about my kids. 

Kid #1, if the pacifier got dropped it got sanitized. 
Kid #2, If the pacifier got dropped, the dog and cat hair got brushed off by a quick wipe from you work shirt as you walked in the door from a long day. :laughing:


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Your husband will change it himself the first time he gets pt splinter on his foot.:laughing:
As far as I know, treated wood does not have components that off gas. If you are worried enough, search yourself, esp as I am saying things here without having searched it myself. 
1. how treated wood is made
2. what preservatives are used and if any one part of it can off gas
3. toxicity of each part
4. see what EPA says (this will be the source with least axe to grind about pt wood)

BTW, if you use wood salad bowl, it may have chemicals in/on it. What I am saying is, you can worry only so much.

I have wood finishing book by Frank something. He made indoor furniture with pt wood more than 30 years ago. He liked the cross cut grain accented by the chemicals. He's passed on, but if I asked him now about it, I am sure he would say he still likes the furniture.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

did anyone besides Joe look at the pic? It's not PT wood some most of this discussion is moot.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

ddawg16 said:


> did anyone besides Joe look at the pic? It's not PT wood some most of this discussion is moot.


I'm sure everyone looked at it, since it was "gun" cabinet that they were asking if it was pressure treated wood, and not the bed headboard that they were originally referring to.


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## musick (Dec 11, 2014)

It'll be fine. Just put it the room where the lead paint covers the asbestos walls, and insulation also make sure the water pipe have lead. When will we learn?...


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

:laughing::laughing:
However, for the op, the point is to remove the known problems. Nuking the place (always recommended by the product sellers) is not the answer.


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