# Basement insulation options



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Geran,

Option 1 is very good and will cost you the least. 

Be sure to seal up the band joist locations and address the gutters and grading to help eliminate the water infiltration issues.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> Geran,
> 
> Option 1 is very good and will cost you the least.
> 
> Be sure to seal up the band joist locations and address the gutters and grading to help eliminate the water infiltration issues.


Thanks for the reply.

The band joist will be sealed by spray foam due to their location.

I will check on the gutters, after looking at it the next day. The gutters on that side of the house drain into the ground (probably catch basins) and I have a feeling they aren't sized properly. As for grading...the property already slopes away from the house on three sides and very slightly (less than 1/4') towards the front of the house (no water on that side in the basement).

So after fixing the gutters and grading would any of those waterproofing cements/paints be worthwhile?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I have never seen them stop something that was coming into the home regardless. 

Not sure they are worth it to that extent.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> I have never seen them stop something that was coming into the home regardless.
> 
> Not sure they are worth it to that extent.


Thanks for your help mate!


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Windows on Wash said:


> I have never seen them stop something that was coming into the home regardless.


Even if they did... that doesn't stop the water from being there.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

TarheelTerp said:


> Even if they did... that doesn't stop the water from being there.


So basically you're agreeing with Windows on Wash on that it isn't worth the extra expense?


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Geran Brown said:


> So basically you're agreeing with Windows on Wash on that it isn't worth the extra expense?


More. I'm saying that even if it did work it would just create other and possibly even more serious problems.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

TarheelTerp said:


> More. I'm saying that even if it did work it would just create other and possibly even more serious problems.


Oh okay...thank you mate!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The waterproofing paint-on material will force the exterior moisture (in the CMU) to dry either toward the mudsill/above-grade portion of the block (capillarity/air dry wicking) or downward (collecting/pooling) to the mortar joint between the CMU/footing- more likely to ingress per volume). IMO, don't use any- let the foamboard diffuse the moisture to dry to the inside (all surface of wall, not area concentrated) with the dehumidifier, or use thicker foam to raise the dew-point temp there so it will not condense, wetting the wood framing. For your local high/lows of Jan, Feb, Dec, average is 34.6*F; http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/20703

With that, at 68*F inside and R-15 Roxul + R-10XPS, the Delta T at inside foamboard is 48*F OR* 49%Relative Humidity* at grade/3' below grade.

Roxul + R-7.5 XPS = *44%RH* dew point in cavity. With R-5 (1")XPS, dew-point is *40%RH* and below. 
R-15 Roxul + R-5 = R-20 or 95.5% efectively stopping heat flow; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VjgAkW8XzKgQkGg&bvm=bv.44442042,d.cGE&cad=rja

R-22.5 = 96%, R-25 = 97%. The Roxul meets minimum code below grade alone, the foamboard stops condensation; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec002.htm 

Using Roxul+ R-2.5 (1/2")XPS gives* 35%RH *and you have a dehumid. to boot... glue the f.b. in 1'square grid patterns to stop air; http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743 be sure Rox is touching f.b. to stop convective loop-s there; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...Foimib&sig=AHIEtbQYAZ0SWjnVJNXhfHFsk1RrK9G2HQ

Canned foam under f.b., tape/mastic seams, and fire-stop above at top plate to floor cavities and every 10' horizontally per code; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2006f2/icod_irc_2006f2_6_sec002_par017.htm

F.b. under PT bottom plate, not sill sealer for thermal/air/capillary break to cold earth; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code

And have fun knowing you are doing it correctly!

Gary


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> The waterproofing paint-on material will force the exterior moisture (in the CMU) to dry either toward the mudsill/above-grade portion of the block (capillarity/air dry wicking) or downward (collecting/pooling) to the mortar joint between the CMU/footing- more likely to ingress per volume). IMO, don't use any- let the foamboard diffuse the moisture to dry to the inside (all surface of wall, not area concentrated) with the dehumidifier, or use thicker foam to raise the dew-point temp there so it will not condense, wetting the wood framing. For your local high/lows of Jan, Feb, Dec, average is 34.6*F; http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/20703
> 
> With that, at 68*F inside and R-15 Roxul + R-10XPS, the Delta T at inside foamboard is 48*F OR* 49%Relative Humidity* at grade/3' below grade.
> 
> ...


Hi Gary,

Thank you for such a detailed reply and explaining a ton. I do have some questions though...

1. Do I want a higher or lower relative humidity? I'm guessing higher. Also from buildingscience, they recommend 2" F.B. (R-10) with R-15 insulation.
2. When you say 1' square grid pattern, do you mean something like this?
3. Why should the Roxul be right up against the FB instead of away from it by a inch or less? Also would this mean that the wood framing would need to be against the F.B. as well?
4. What do you mean by a fire-stop above at the top plate? I was planning on using Roxul as insulation in the floor cavities with resilient channels to help with noise...would this be sufficient?

That's all I have for now and I definitely want to do it correctly the first time so your information has been extremely helpful.

Thanks,
Geran


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

So just to clarify is 1/2" xps sufficient if you plan on using R15 roxul?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"1. Do I want a higher or lower relative humidity? I'm guessing higher. Also from buildingscience, they recommend 2" F.B. (R-10) with R-15 insulation.-------------------- lower is better... you can use 2"XPS if you want. The thicker foam boards are mainly to control the dew-point in the cavity (depending on exterior temps per location); stopping/reducing condensation that is harmful to wood framing and f.g. insulation R-value when wet. 

2. When you say 1' square grid pattern, do you mean something like this?------------------- No, that would one of the least effective ways to stop room air between the f.b./concrete where it will condense with temp. differences. Glue an inch or so around perimeter, then grid pattern (12" or so, wide/high) to limit any air (that you missed a hole/crack in the taping of seams or ADA the drywall or 1" f.b. under the p.t. bottom plate for the air/thermal/capillary break) to condense.

3. Why should the Roxul be right up against the FB instead of away from it by a inch or less? Also would this mean that the wood framing would need to be against the F.B. as well?-------------- the wood framing can have a gap, though it helps hold the f.b. in place. The insulation cannot; Read only middle column pp.3 under *"Vapor retarders in basement" *about *"vertical airspace"*; from; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:M_ByAk5oMT4J:www.certainteed.com/resources/Use%2520of%2520Vapor%2520Retarders.pdf+water+resistant+gypsum+board+permeance+rating&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgt9RDzAXFRomDcEbQmwtyBGjayITUg0VINVFrtfPJ92PgXgKurYS55o3WmUhfYQVJ8lLEstHevvLyLOw_jzEBcxg8oPtfb6V8oA5PdgcXk_DFpAflg99BVUppB7X5bE6Foimib&sig=AHIEtbQYAZ0SWjnVJNXhfHFsk1RrK9G2HQ

4. What do you mean by a fire-stop above at the top plate? I was planning on using Roxul as insulation in the floor cavities with resilient channels to help with noise...would this be sufficient?"--------------- any gap between top plate of new frame wall and old wall top plate/mudsill requires fire-blocking, not just draft-stopping to keep vertical wall separate from horizontal ceiling; Post #21, 22--- read the whole 9 yards ....;http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-fireblock-framing-37190/index2/

We have an excellent sound-pro here, I'll PM him for you... Ted White.

The drywall you picked is only 10 perms rather than 50 perms for regular, is it worth the added expense, possibility of slowing vapor from diffusing through unhampered, (need to research that more). http://www.gp.com/build/DocumentViewer.aspx?repository=BP&elementid=6496

Gary
PS. Brian, the foamboard thickness changes with Zones (location), just as above-grade walls. As far as controlling condensation (dew-point), basement walls require about 1/2 as much R-value due the concrete wall protection from the elements (wind, rain, etc.) so one could possibly use the standards per code; R-2.75 for Zone 4, though it's best to figure on graph per city. http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ulating-sheathing-vapor-retarder-requirements

Note; for a 2x4 wall only, in his case, a 2x6 requires thicker foam because heat is stopped with mass fibrous insulation between f.b./room;http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ld-weather-condensation-using-insulation/view That is the reason I always suggest 2" XPS on any rim joist- due to the cavity insulation (fiberglass, rock wool, etc.) between the rim and the heat source as in a basement -- more fibrous mass, thicker foam as the temp there is closer to outside temps). There is always some diffusion through the foamboard (unless $$$$$ thick) at the rim; last paragraph; http://www.buildingfoundation.umn.edu/RimJoist/rimjoistphenom.htm


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Regarding soundproofing efforts- standard fiberglass will work as well as anything, regardless of price. Extensive data to support this, so I'd go with whatever is cheapest. R19 is fine.

I would never suggest Resilient Channel (RC-1 or RC-2). Underperforms in the lower frequencies and easily short circuited. Consider a low cost clip & channel assembly to decouple. Then as much drywall as you can deal with. Double 5/8" is great.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> "1. Do I want a higher or lower relative humidity? I'm guessing higher. Also from buildingscience, they recommend 2" F.B. (R-10) with R-15 insulation.-------------------- lower is better... you can use 2"XPS if you want. The thicker foam boards are mainly to control the dew-point in the cavity (depending on exterior temps per location); stopping/reducing condensation that is harmful to wood framing and f.g. insulation R-value when wet.


Thanks for letting me know that lower RH is better so that means the .5" F.B. with Roxul will be sufficient enough with my dehumidifier. If I can't find .5" then I'll go for .75" or 1".



Gary in WA said:


> 2. When you say 1' square grid pattern, do you mean something like this?------------------- No, that would one of the least effective ways to stop room air between the f.b./concrete where it will condense with temp. differences. Glue an inch or so around perimeter, then grid pattern (12" or so, wide/high) to limit any air (that you missed a hole/crack in the taping of seams or ADA the drywall or 1" f.b. under the p.t. bottom plate for the air/thermal/capillary break) to condense.


That's good to know...this is the first time I heard about doing a grid pattern like that behind foam board. I will be using spray foam around all the edges of the f.b., tuck taping each joint and putting 1" f.b. under the p.t. bottom plate with the grid pattern too.



Gary in WA said:


> 3. Why should the Roxul be right up against the FB instead of away from it by a inch or less? Also would this mean that the wood framing would need to be against the F.B. as well?-------------- the wood framing can have a gap, though it helps hold the f.b. in place. The insulation cannot; Read only middle column pp.3 under *"Vapor retarders in basement" *about *"vertical airspace"*; from; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:M_ByAk5oMT4J:www.certainteed.com/resources/Use%2520of%2520Vapor%2520Retarders.pdf+water+resistant+gypsum+board+permeance+rating&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgt9RDzAXFRomDcEbQmwtyBGjayITUg0VINVFrtfPJ92PgXgKurYS55o3WmUhfYQVJ8lLEstHevvLyLOw_jzEBcxg8oPtfb6V8oA5PdgcXk_DFpAflg99BVUppB7X5bE6Foimib&sig=AHIEtbQYAZ0SWjnVJNXhfHFsk1RrK9G2HQ


Makes sense to me. The gap in the framing would be in the front of the insulation right behind the drywall...is that okay?



Gary in WA said:


> 4. What do you mean by a fire-stop above at the top plate? I was planning on using Roxul as insulation in the floor cavities with resilient channels to help with noise...would this be sufficient?"--------------- any gap between top plate of new frame wall and old wall top plate/mudsill requires fire-blocking, not just draft-stopping to keep vertical wall separate from horizontal ceiling; Post #21, 22--- read the whole 9 yards ....;http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-fireblock-framing-37190/index2/
> 
> We have an excellent sound-pro here, I'll PM him for you... Ted White.
> 
> ...


I will do more research on this as well as the drywall (I would prefer to have mold/mildew resistant drywall just for the extra assurance but if it is pointless then regular drywall will suffice). I will be using latex paint to help as a vapor retarder so maybe regular paper based drywall will be fine...thoughts?

I will definitely have some questions for Mr. White when I get to my home theater setup.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

"tuck taping each joint and putting 1" f.b. under the p.t. bottom plate with the grid pattern too."-------------- just run a straight bead of caulking under/over the foamboard there, just to air seal any irregularities in the concrete floor/plate. 

"The gap in the framing would be in the front of the insulation right behind the drywall...is that okay?"---------- no gap if you can help it. Better to gap the back rather than the front, prefer no gaps, just pull some f.g. apart length-wise to make the filler, or compress it slightly. Yes, your total R-value decreases BUT the R-value per inch increases. And you already have code-required R-13 without the f.b. or the (extra) filler insulation. Air seal the wiring/plumbing holes w. canned foam, all outlet holes, under the bottom plate, even between the top plates- if using two, w. some caulking. 1. prevents room air from getting to your second line of defense (foamboard); 2. prevents attic from drawing basement air to feed supply there, taking conditioned air with it (past your basement walls, through the main floor walls). ADA drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach/
Regular paper faced drywall is fine, IMO, latex paint only (wall materials to f.b., as permeable as possible).

Gary


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just checking if I understand correctly. Your are saying to put the 1" XPS down then put the treated bottom plate on top of that? The XPS won't be crushed when you secure the bottom plate with nails?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

XPS has enough compressive strength to build off of.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> "tuck taping each joint and putting 1" f.b. under the p.t. bottom plate with the grid pattern too."-------------- just run a straight bead of caulking under/over the foamboard there, just to air seal any irregularities in the concrete floor/plate.


If I use the OC .75" f.b. then I'll seal the lip on the T&G as well as on the line down between the two as well as tuck tape over that (can never be too careful). If I get the f.b. from lowes than I'll definitely use a bead of caulk between the seam along with tuck tape. As for the base and top of each piece of foamboard, I'll be using spray foam from a can to make sure I get a good seal prior to framing as well as in the corners where two pieces of foamboard meet.



Gary in WA said:


> "The gap in the framing would be in the front of the insulation right behind the drywall...is that okay?"---------- no gap if you can help it. Better to gap the back rather than the front, prefer no gaps, just pull some f.g. apart length-wise to make the filler, or compress it slightly. Yes, your total R-value decreases BUT the R-value per inch increases. And you already have code-required R-13 without the f.b. or the (extra) filler insulation. Air seal the wiring/plumbing holes w. canned foam, all outlet holes, under the bottom plate, even between the top plates- if using two, w. some caulking. 1. prevents room air from getting to your second line of defense (foamboard); 2. prevents attic from drawing basement air to feed supply there, taking conditioned air with it (past your basement walls, through the main floor walls). ADA drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach/
> Regular paper faced drywall is fine, IMO, latex paint only (wall materials to f.b., as permeable as possible).
> 
> Gary


While reading your link, I found this PDF and I was wondering why BuildingScience recommends a minimum of 1" XPS over .5" like you?

I will fill the .5" gap behind the Roxul with foamboard and seal all edges and do the grid pattern on that back of that as well.

Thank you for the ADA link, I never knew about sealing behind drywall but it makes sense after reading that and I will make sure that is done. As for the drywall...regular paper drywall with latex paint will be the one I choose 

Gary, I want to thank you very much for all your help and patience with me.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The 1" gives safety to 40%RH, the 1/2" to only 35%RH *with* using a dehumidifier, as I stated in post #10. BSC didn't give the specific Zone 4 as I figured, just a (safe) minimum thickness. Be sure to use 1" (R-5) XPS under the bottom plate (as a sill sealer is R-1 or less), not enough to be a thermal break; stopping the walls from becoming "heat sinks" to the cold earth at the perimeter. Use unfaced (no poly/foil) rigid, unless you are absolutely certain to air seal the board against condensation (any pin-hole will compromise it). Check locally, some jurisdictions require *fire-blocking the rigid board* every 10' horizontally as well, others- just the framing, per code; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2006f2/icod_irc_2006f2_6_sec002_par017.htm

Gary
PS. only the rigid *on *the concrete requires the grid pattern.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary, is there a reason you don't recommend closed-cell (three inches as it gives a minimum of 0.8 perm)?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

ccSPF is the *best *way to go, though some DIY'ers may have trouble with it. Tank temps are finicky, spray in lifts, etc., thicker at above-grade and 3' below-grade, less below that as soil temps warm from the earth; ocSPF requires more volume (to equal ccSPF) to keep wall cavity dew-point lower-a lot thicker in colder climates; http://www.sprayfoam.com/newsarchives/archivedetails.cfm?id=123

http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis

Tommy, I started you a new thread rather than piggy-back here.

Gary


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ccSPF is not as often discussed on here either given the non DIY applicability and the $$$$ associated with it.

I also have concerns with long term off gassing but they jury is out on that .


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> ccSPF is the *best*way to go, though some DIY'ers may have trouble with it. Tank temps are finicky, spray in lifts, etc., thicker at above-grade and 3' below-grade, less below that as soil temps warm from the earth; ocSPF requires more volume (to equal ccSPF) to keep wall cavity dew-point lower-a lot thicker in colder climates; http://www.sprayfoam.com/newsarchives/archivedetails.cfm?id=123
> 
> http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis
> 
> Gary


Awesome...I want to use the best products available today. There is also an insulation method called Flash-and-Batt (http://www.specialty-products.com/pdf/articles/FineHomebuilding0311.pdf) which is very tempting to help with cost but doesn't seem like it would be very efficient compared to all ccSPF. To meet the minimum insulation value of R-13, it would require at least 2" of ccSPF. Do you think just SPF without any batt insulation (Roxul to be exact) would be the best method.



Windows on Wash said:


> ccSPF is not as often discussed on here either given the non DIY applicability and the $$$$ associated with it.
> 
> I also have concerns with long term off gassing but they jury is out on that .


Cost is similar for my project between FB/Roxul & ccSPF (rough $1800 for all the FB/Roxul compared to $2000 for all ccSPF).

What concerns do you have exactly?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Off gassing over the long term.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

System comparisons; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis

Gary


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Hey guys,


I'm back...this time about the floor. I want to insulate the flooring before laying down vinyl planks and carpet (only in the home theater) but I keep seeing 2-3 different options.

My current plan is to use 1" XPS glued to the floor with a 12" grid pattern, spray foam the edges and tape the seams followed my 1/2" plywood tapcon to the floor. My question is would this provide enough moisture barrier between the carpet and/or vinyl planks?


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## tommyxv (Jun 19, 2013)

Geran Brown said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I'm back...this time about the floor. I want to insulate the flooring before laying down vinyl planks and carpet (only in the home theater) but I keep seeing 2-3 different options.
> ...


We do not live that far apart. I used Delta-FL and T&G plywood before I put down carpet. If you are using a floating floor system, that can go right on top of the Delta-FL.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

tommyxv said:


> We do not live that far apart. I used Delta-FL and T&G plywood before I put down carpet. If you are using a floating floor system, that can do it right on top of the Delta-FL.


is your floor cold under your feet?

Whereabouts are you?


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## tommyxv (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm in Newark DE. I'm about 15 mins from the DE/MD border. My floor has been room temp.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

tommyxv said:


> I'm in Newark DE. I'm about 15 mins from the DE/MD border. My floor has been room temp.


Interesting...that's good to know. Do you have a daylight basement or are all four walls below grade? Was your floor level or did you have to lay the fabric underneath it?

As for my flooring, I'll have floating vinyl planks in the all rooms except the bathroom (tile), laundry room (tile) and home theater (carpet).


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

Did anyone insulate interior basement walls? Is standards Kraft paper insulation okay for interior walls?


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

bryanp22 said:


> Did anyone insulate interior basement walls? Is standards Kraft paper insulation okay for interior walls?


Interior basement walls can be standard paperbacked insulation. I will be using Roxul insulation personally.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I love Roxul insulation in a multitude of different installation applications. That being said I would recommend you use it for a little bit before you specify it for interior walls. This stuff will make itch like crazy, be more expensive than standard fiberglass, and does not have the option of a paper facing four easy hanging in interior walls.


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## bryanp22 (Nov 2, 2011)

It's one interior wall 20 ft long and and another 6 foot walls. Guess ill see how difficult it's to work with and make the call after that.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> I love Roxul insulation in a multitude of different installation applications. That being said I would recommend you use it for a little bit before you specify it for interior walls. This stuff will make itch like crazy, be more expensive than standard fiberglass, and does not have the option of a paper facing four easy hanging in interior walls.


I looked into fiberglass insulation and Roxul...after the research I did and everything I decided on Roxul due to the fire resistance, moisture resistance and sound dampening properties. Also after my rough calculations for how much insulation I needed, Roxul was only $100 more expensive than Owens Corning (see below):

Interior walls square footage: 1,034sqft
Roxul price: $724.09
Johns Manville price: $973.67
Owens Corning price: $621.08


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

If the delta is that little, no reason not to use it.

There is not real appreciable sound attenuation benefit from the research that I have done. Ted White is the resident sound expert and he knows better but the claims that Roxul are better than fiberglass (or that the insulation inside the walls is a huge driver of performance) are questionable to say the least.


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> If the delta is that little, no reason not to use it.
> 
> There is not real appreciable sound attenuation benefit from the research that I have done. Ted White is the resident sound expert and he knows better but the claims that Roxul are better than fiberglass (or that the insulation inside the walls is a huge driver of performance) are questionable to say the least.


I am talking with him on AVSforums about the insulation on the interior walls...thanks for the suggestion though :thumbup:

My biggest hurdle right now is what to do about the concrete floor. I keep seeing different options and can't tell which would be best.

Option 1:


1" XPS; glued and seams taped – directly on slab
2 layers of 1/2" plywood (installed with staggered seams, and with the top layer Tapcon screwed to the lower layer & concrete floor) and seams taped
Floating vinyl planks or engineered wood flooring; carpet in Home Theater

Option 2:


1" XPS; glued and seams taped – directly on slab
One layer of 23/32" T&G plywood Tapcon screwed to the concrete floor
Floating vinyl planks or engineered wood flooring; carpet in Home Theater


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

So quick question...should I lay the subfloor (xps & 23/32" plywood) prior to framing the walls? Why or why not?


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## DoodDank (Oct 29, 2013)

*All I Can Say is InSoFast*

Check it out. It was designed by basement insulation guys for exactly your situation. 

It even has channels for the moisture. 

Very quick & easy to install. It glues to wall. Rock it then installed traditionally by screwing to the built in ferring strips. 

If your time is worth even $10 an hour you will ave a lot by using InSoFast. 

But more importantly, it is the best solution. No mold. No holes in your blocks letting even more water in. And minimum lost room area.

http://insofast.com

InSoFast UX 2.0 provides a continuous wall of R-8.5 insulation with built-in mold-resistant framing, moisture control channels and electrical chaseways in a single, interlocking panel that's ready for drywall attachment.
The perfect solution for below-grade applications and moisture-prone environments like basements.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

DoodDank said:


> Check it out. It was designed by basement insulation guys for exactly your situation.
> 
> It even has channels for the moisture.
> 
> ...


As you brought it up on an old post for your advertising purpose, I have to retort; 

"channels for the moisture"- appear to be 3/8"x3/8" cut every 3/4" apart on the back= 1-1/2" x 3/8' missing foam per foot. Double that for 2' wide= 3" x 0.375" = 1.125 sq.in. per 2' panel.

Every 2' is a wiring channel cut (missing foam/R-value again); 3/4" x 3/4" or 0.56 (1/2") x 1" deep ----- added to the back drains = total of 1-1/2" wide where the R-value is only R-4.45---- that is every 2' times a 30' wall = 1.5 x 15= 22.5" *almost 2' of only R-4.4 *rather than your R-9.8--- full 2" of thickness. 

The channels also promote air movement dispersing any moisture vapor through the network of channels- wiring every 2' horizontally and every 16" vertically. Where foam board should be applied with a 1' square grid glue pattern- IMO, to limit air movement behind the foam board; http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743

"No holes in your blocks letting even more water in."------- the water will find a way in regardless of holes. Best to use an interior drainage (block walls) with solid foam board as bought at local stores without the huge mark-up for an inferior product; 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFEQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Finsulation.owenscorning.com%2Fassets%2F0%2F428%2F429%2F440%2F2f639b9f-590e-48b3-b25a-48e07e7fa312.pdf&ei=hxOBUuj7BaeEjAKS3IHgBw&usg=AFQjCNGrbtDeP1J962GmelkZfMJx1c3o4Q&bvm=bv.56146854,d.cGE&cad=rja

http://www.dow.com/webapps/lit/litorder.asp?filepath=styrofoam/pdfs/noreg/178-00390.pdf&pdf=true

Few other comparisons;

Inso. -- R-4.45 per in vs. R-5 per inch (true R-value, no thermal reduction by 50% every 2' panel for drainage).

Inso.- 3.5 perms rating vs. 1.5 or 1.1 perms for others sited. Less water per hour coming through at a slower rate- 50% slower- easier for HVAC to handle. 

Inso.- 3% water intake volume vs. 0.9 % to 1.3%

Inso.- 1.25# cu.ft. density vs. 1.3- 2#

A good building inspector will catch the rated R-=4.45 per inch and product is 2" thick = R-9.8 not R-10 as most locals require- or more- what then buy more Inso. and double wall? You count the rated R-value of "continuous" footnote "c" not the inside air film= 0.68 plus the 1/2"gypsum board = R-0.45 to get code minimums; and under new codes- min. for Zone 5, 6, 7, and 8 are now R-15- redesign......http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_11_sec002.htm

So it is all chopped up with wiring/drainage raceways that you may not even need, robbing the R-value. Much cheaper to DIY and add some 2x2 furring in front of full R-value XPS foam board as thickness varies per location. Most older concrete walls require a wood frame wall in front just to straighten them anyway, let alone the DWV lines tight alongside. More of a lazymans DIY with lacking design/R-value, IMHO. 

Gary


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA...I already reported his post lol.

On another note, how about my question above his advertisement


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I reported it also as I am no longer a moderator. Yet here it sits..... 

Sorry, never saw your previous question. If you ever have water in basement, easier to remove ply to dry foam without a wall on it. Just add foam board under wall plate (pt not required, check local AHJ) with continuous bead of caulking for irregularities in slab and air sealing wall as first line of defense.

Gary


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## Geran Brown (May 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> I reported it also as I am no longer a moderator. Yet here it sits..... Sorry, never saw your previous question. If you ever have water in basement, easier to remove ply to dry foam without a wall on it. Just add foam board under wall plate (pt not required, check local AHJ) with continuous bead of caulking for irregularities in slab and air sealing wall as first line of defense. Gary


That's good to know. Yeah I'll be using 1" FB under the wall plate with adhesive in 1x1 squares (not necessary but peace of mind) and caulking on all edges .


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