# Condensation ring on Pella window



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Usually it is a result of air circulation patterns over the window. I live in a -30 and below climate and see that myself. Looks like you have some strange air circulation flow over that area. Is there a floor/heat register nearby with a deflector over it. Try use a small old style blade fan to blow air gently by there and see if it goes away. Do you have ceiling supply air vents?


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

heat vents are on the floor. the ring usually occures at night when the heat is off although I can make it occur anytime by using the jiffy steamer which puts a lot of moisture in the air...the ring will always appear.


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## Dr Heat (Jan 14, 2009)

Get out of the house call the cdc your windows are made from alien glass.

No just kidding. the center of the window will usually be the first area to reach dew point it will be the coolest part of the mass.

Turn down your humidifier till it stops.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Moisture condenses on the coldest spot. We all have natural convection currents of air over the windows from top to bottom/hot air rises and cold air settles. The coldest spot is usually at the bottom of the window as little air naturally flows by convection over there. Has something to do with that. The windows are vacuum sealed between the panes and mine are low E argon. How high is the RH humidity level in your house. I try keep mine at no more than 30% or mine sweat a lot. Under 30% and I get dry skin and static shocks. A continuous running fan may also help but it uses energy and can be drafty. Let the kids draw a smiley face there for fun.


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

captjackny said:


> I have a new house with all Pella windows including (2) 6’x6’ picture windows. On both of these windows (but more ofter on the one pictured) I get a circle of *condensation* in the middle of the window about 2-3 feet in diameter every day. It is on the inside and not between the panes . It is very strange because it comes in the exact middle of the window and is a circle or sometimes an oval. It does not matter if the shade is left down or up and it occurs independent of the heat being on or off. Any ideas on what may because this? I understand *condensation* and what causes it but the fact that is a circle in the middle of the window has me stumped. If it's very cold out (5-10 deg) the condensation actually freezes into ice on the inside. Is it possible the window is defective in some way causing it to be cooler in the middle? see attached pic


Everyones, quotes are correct- Pella Windows are junk windows- Pella windows uses the same glass thickness on both sheets outside and inside the window- the window will distort:yes:- it has bowing effect allowing the glass to come closer to each other-which can cause condensation in a circle on large window panes - did you not know about the class action law suite against Pella for windows rotting with in 10 years before you bought them- and that you can clearly see wood exposed on most product lines:laughing:- - and rolled aluminum windows are junk- you should have bought Marvin extruded aluminum for a few dollars more almost 2X the window- also- the glass on Pella windows are not heat strenghtened- which helped reduce sound fro mthe outside and you made through the stress cracks during shipment- aluminum sill which is not thermally broken which allows the transfer from hot/cold to the inside of window walls- exposed wood grain on the ends of the sashes which could soak up water- mositure can also build up behind the aluminum which causes premature rott- Spacer in between glass is aluminum-which transfers heat/cold to the inside glass pane- corners are exposed wood - hopefully wood preservative does not break down- southern pine rotts faster than most other woods- pop can thin aluminum on the outside on the sash doesn't offer much protection and can be poped off easy - Pella Service stinks in my area- I went Andersen WIndows on my house in my sub divsion and neighbors went Pella - they are kicking them selves now- by going pella- also Pella does back glaze or caulk the aluminum on the outsdie sash to the glass allowing water to run behind the aluminum on the outside into guess what -the soft southern pine wood- also keep wipeing down the glass on the side- so that water doesn't get behind the wood sash and the glass- I would have recommended Andersen for this reason- Andersen Sashes are wrapped in extruded vinyl around the entire sash. Steel operating hardware can rust- Andersen uses stainless steel - keep a close on eye on those windows for rott- good luck -:no:


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

captjackny said:


> I have a new house with all Pella windows including (2) 6’x6’ picture windows. On both of these windows (but more ofter on the one pictured) I get a circle of *condensation* in the middle of the window about 2-3 feet in diameter every day. It is on the inside and not between the panes . It is very strange because it comes in the exact middle of the window and is a circle or sometimes an oval. It does not matter if the shade is left down or up and it occurs independent of the heat being on or off. Any ideas on what may because this? I understand *condensation* and what causes it but the fact that is a circle in the middle of the window has me stumped. If it's very cold out (5-10 deg) the condensation actually freezes into ice on the inside. Is it possible the window is defective in some way causing it to be cooler in the middle? see attached pic


Now that I looked closer are these vinyl Therma Star windows- they are junk too just in case- paper thin exterior glazing stops- non-sloped sills- porduct weep holes allows water build up then ice could crack the sills- weep holes also invite bugs to nest- thin vinyl frames then most on the market today- and yeah double side tape adhesive breaks down- you bought these at Lowes -if these are vinyl therma star windows you got hood winkled - junk- are they double strength glass? argon filled? if the argon is leaking out the glass could collapse - I hope these are not therma star windows-  junk


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

thermo pane glass is not a vacum seal. Emily how do you know so much about windows? if you dont mind me asking?


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## Dr Heat (Jan 14, 2009)

me thinks Emily sells Anderson


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

i think this thread is moving away from hvac and more towards home improvement


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Your RH is too high.

Lower it by a couple %, problem eliminated.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Dr Heat said:


> me thinks Emily sells Anderson


agreed, although you'd think they'd want someone who could spell properly and use correct grammar to represent their company...... maybe just a real big fan of andersen windows?

DM


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## Sammy (Mar 11, 2007)

That circle of condensation in the middle of the window is................

EXACTLY where the big ROUND yellow Pella bullseye logo decal would have been when new. 

Maybe its some gum leftover when the decal was pulled off. Accelerating the collection of moisture on the window.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

good call sammy, if there's leftover goop, use lighter fluid or goo-gone type product to thoroughly clean the surface and see if.......

DM


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Put the sticker back on. LOL


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

You'll be safer, pass'ers by will think you have a reallllly big dog and won't go near your house. My two cents with the moisture on the inside of glass is too much in the house. Kind of like in the kitchen when you are cooking for the holidays.


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> thermo pane glass is not a vacum seal. Emily how do you know so much about windows? if you dont mind me asking?


To answer your question, I have sold windows since 1992. I worked at several local lumber yards, at first at Wolohan Lumber in MI sold Crestline Windows-Crestline's line was as good as an Andersen Window, that was the crestline statement and sold Andersen back in mid 90's, sold Peachtree-sold weather shield and vetter at Windows and More. Sold Pella at Lowes for a 14 month period, big mistake lots of issues with the Pro Line Series Window, no customer service to speak of, had several customer complaining of windows rotting or soft wood under the aluminum. The rest, Kolbe & Kolbe, Caradco - which is now Jeld Wen is nothing but a problem window- Wenco-when it was wood on the inside- which is also nothing but problems -customers loved the price - just like Andersen Window is what we stated and cheaper- but after two to three years they fell apart and rotted, the customers got what they paid for, now that I look back at it and with Wenco's pro rated warranty on parts and labor what a nightmare the customers were screaming. The latest lumber yard sold Marvin as our first choice then ANdersen then Jeld Wen if we had to go low- I would always buy a competitiors window and compare it side by side then take it completely apart with the contractor I was trying too convert over to Marvin/ANdersen and you could really see the differences. I always go after Pella and Jeld Wen contractors because they are so easy to convert, because basically it's a pop can over wood rolled on, with exposed seems, corners, jambs, sashes, etc... as far as vinyl windows sold siminton, and silverline, jeld wen, sprouse, mw, dove, therma star, carefree, asw, and mi. Andersen Windows has always had the best service no matter where I sold them at, then Marvin both comapnies were the best to deal with and reps were always helpful. Siminton was the best vinyl company for quality- but silverline had the best service and warranty. 
Why the question and whats your experience with window industry, have I miss stated something? Do I have the knowledge to school someone?


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

I think the question was only asked because once in a while factory reps or sales peoples will stop by and give very biased info. I'll admit I only scanned over your last post, but seems to me you could help with window info, thanks for sharing


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

Dr Heat said:


> me thinks Emily sells Anderson


Hey tin man, are you missing a heart or brain. HMMM, let's see.... I do not work for any window company but sold more brands than you can propably think of. DR HEAT, if your a docotor why are you on this web page?


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## Dr Heat (Jan 14, 2009)

EMILY P said:


> Hey tin man, are you missing a heart or brain. HMMM, let's see.... I do not work for any window company but sold more brands than you can propably think of. DR HEAT, if your a docotor why are you on this web page?


First it is you who needs a heart I did not insult only observed.

Second Dr is just for fun a silly little play don't you think? The heat part might give you a clue as to why I might post on an HVAC Forum.:wink:

Now boys and girls listen close H is for Heating V is for Ventilation thats a fun word AC is for Air Conditioning Now lets all say it together


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

captjackny,

What you are seeing is is a classic example of center-of-glass condensation due to "collapsed glass". 

In a normal window the center-of-glass is the warmest part of the entire window system, but in the case of your windows there is a slight vacuum between the lites which is causing them to collapse inward resulting in the glass being closer together at the center (possibly even touching in some cases) and in less insulating value at that point. 

This is typically a manufacturing defect and it is a warranty issue.

You need to contact your window distributor asap and explain the problem to them.


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

EmilyP, 

A suggestion.

Please breakdown your posts into segments rather than one long paragraph that doesn't have any breaks.

It makes reading them in this format MUCH easier, especially if reading them using a smaller monitor or a laptop screen.


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## jeepgrady (Dec 8, 2008)

oberon said:


> EmilyP,
> 
> A suggestion.
> 
> ...


 
Boy, do I agree with you.


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## jaros bros. (Jan 16, 2009)

Definitely looks like a collapse between the panes. That happens a lot with big picture windows. Pella windows are so so. Emily is right, the Marvin and Anderson windows are head and shoulders above the rest. In addition, they both have good service and reps. You pay more for a quality window initially, but in the end you end up saving money, and you won't have to strain your head to look past the fogged up section in the middle of your picture window.

Josh Jaros (Jaros Bros. Construction)


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## gene_champ (Jan 4, 2009)

*thanks emily - another ?*

you seem to be very knowledgeable on windows, and may have information that i am looking for on window brands. do you have an opinion on semco windows. we just got a new modular home with semco low e argon windows. double hung wood clad. i suppect they are not the top, but are they a decent window? anything to watch for while under warranty? i am not a window expert. i always thought pella was top of line. 

thanks.


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks Oberon...I think you are right about the glass collapse. I'm having Pella come next week to check it out. BTW, the glass in these picture windows of which I have 2 is made by Oldcastle Glass. Pella told me they havn't used Oldcastle for quite a while and since my windows are new (house built in 2007) I'm not sure what the deal is...where these windows sitting around for years?? Apparently Pella has switched to Cardinal.

I get you know what Pella has to say.


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## stparrot (Jan 24, 2009)

*Bad windows are an HVAC problem*

We just renovated a 100 year old house and installed 17 vetter windows and 3 vetter French doors. The salesman for Choo Choo Building Supply, a division of VNS Corp., told us these were good windows. Of the 14 38 inch double hung windows (28 sashes) we had 15 bowed sashes. The only way the windows would close last fall was to remove the seals. Winter came and the windows shrunk. Now all but one will close. Choo/Vetter agreed to replace that ONE! When spring/summer come we don't know if our windows will work or not. Now I know I should have gone with Marvin or Anderson.


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

I checked on the Andersen window web site FAQ's and they even have a section on the oval ring problem 

"Oval in center.
An oval condensation ring on the interior glass surface is an indicator that interior and exterior panes of glass have collapsed toward each other. You need to repair o replace the window sash or door panel. Please Contact Us to submit a product issue."


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

captjackny,

I rarely get surprised in forums, but saying that the glass in your windows was from Old Castle was certainly a surprise to me as well. As the Pella rep told you, it has been a great many years (that I am aware of as well) since Pella has used Old Castle glass. 

Why your windows have Old Castle glass might make for an interesting explanation... 

For the rest, Pella may suggest one of two alternatives. First they may offer to fix the collapse by drilling a hole thru the frame into the IG airspace in order to equalize pressure, or they may simply opt to replace the sash.

I am curious what they are going to do...


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

oberon said:


> captjackny,
> 
> I rarely get surprised in forums, but saying that the glass in your windows was from Old Castle was certainly a surprise to me as well. As the Pella rep told you, it has been a great many years (that I am aware of as well) since Pella has used Old Castle glass.
> 
> ...


I thought Pella used cardinal Glass, for several years now.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

I asked only because you seem to have pretty vast knowledge in the window business and i was impressed and curious at the same time.Me?
Just a lowly installer just trying to get it right for my customers and maybe make a living at the same time thanks for the info Tom:thumbsup:


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

gene_champ said:


> you seem to be very knowledgeable on windows, and may have information that i am looking for on window brands. do you have an opinion on semco windows. we just got a new modular home with semco low e argon windows. double hung wood clad. i suppect they are not the top, but are they a decent window? anything to watch for while under warranty? i am not a window expert. i always thought pella was top of line.
> 
> thanks.


I have had no dealings with Semco windows. But I heard so many contractors refer them to as good as an ANdersen Window-which in most cases there is no such thing. Why not go with the one of the best windows "Andersen" and be done with it. But Eagle and Marvin is best of the best. If you want "cheap," you get what you pay for.
Mid band windows- Peachtree/Weathershield- then I heard Milgard is good for an average window. 
If you want top the vinyl companies look at Simonton then WinCore then Allside go upper series vinyl on all bands then 8500 Series Silverline. Go to your local lumber yard first, for insight, knowledge, look at the bands stated then compare the windows ask to see cut aways if available then you can see for your self the quality, then for price go to Home Depot or 84 Lumber then back to the local lumber yard with the cheapest price and see if they then can help on price. Hopefully this helps if you were looking for new windows. Also, ask about warranties and if parts will be available in years to come, Andersen has parts back to 1939 for most windows made from them. Good luck.


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

Pella came yesterday and took a look at my "collapsed glass" on both of my large 6'x6' picture windows and decided to replace the glass on both. no mention of trying the "hole drilling" fix. 

 I also asked them about the Oldcastle glass in these windows and they thought Pella was still using Oldcastle on their vinyl line but I got the impression they weren’t really too knowledgeable about this side of the business.

Have to wait until Spring to do the replacement as a large whole in the house when it’s 10 deg outside would probably make it tough to keep the inside warm.


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## brymanks (Apr 10, 2009)

*Pella pane failure*

We have about 30 Pella windows in our home. These were installed at construction in 1992. In 2002 we noticed condensation forming in the exact center of about 6 of these when conditions were right. 

Pella replaced, saying that we would have to pay the labor but glass was under warranty. We now have 10 more doing the same thing- but not on those replaced. If you inspect very closely there appears to be a small break in the center of these panes and when pressure is applied you can detect a scraping sound where the small break is. It also has a minor discoloration- an oily appearance. 

Now, I've had Pella out and they argue there is nothing wrong with them. They think I'm imagining things. I'll admit it is hard to detect if you are not viewing on a day when there is condensation. On occasion a frozen oval shape as much as 8" wide and 18" high appears. I've now taken pictures and marked each window with the problem for the next Pella inspection.

Pella now says that windows installed prior to Oct 1996 had only a one year warranty and we are not covered.

I recently read on a forum that these windows are prone to failure in this manner and can be detected by placing a straight edge across the pane. I've tried this and agree that each of the windows I've marked as condensating have noticable bowing in the center. Its like the center has collapsed inward. I can't say that they touch in the center but there is a definite bow.

Can anyone clarify the Pella warranty? The current website says 20 years on non laminated and 10 on laminated. I'm not sure what we have or if this is post 10/96 policy.

I also wonder if we just had a bad batch of windows and that eventually all will show this issue? I'll soon be past the 20 year mark and would like to get some resolution if possible.

I've attached a few pics.


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

brymanks said:


> We have about 30 Pella windows in our home. These were installed at construction in 1992. In 2002 we noticed condensation forming in the exact center of about 6 of these when conditions were right.
> 
> Pella replaced, saying that we would have to pay the labor but glass was under warranty. We now have 10 more doing the same thing- but not on those replaced. If you inspect very closely there appears to be a small break in the center of these panes and when pressure is applied you can detect a scraping sound where the small break is. It also has a minor discoloration- an oily appearance.
> 
> ...


 
WOW......

That's about right...Again Pella runs away from their problems...HomeSeal can tell you word for word Pella's Warranty ...The Pella Bandit sells them.. and he even sleeps at night..HOODWINKLING his customers...VIEW TO BE THE BEST??? IF peolpe only knew before they bought..the real truth... this is a great example....


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

I'am not a glass man. But , I have a friend that sells ,repairs , installs glass & windows. When I had the same problem ( different brand window) he stated all D.P. windows doean't matter if aragon, filled etc, will have a seal failure at some point. This will allow air between the 2 panes & cause sweating. Like I said I'am no window man & don't play 1 on TV... Not related to HVAC


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

brymanks,

Also a classic example of collapsed glass. Very nice pictures and these should go a long way in convincing the Pella rep that your windows need repair or replacement. 

For a bit of background, collapsed glass is not a seal failure, in the sense that there was a physical breach in the IG seal system. 

Rather, collapsed glass occurs in argon-filled windows when the argon decides to leave the IG airspace and it isn't replaced; resulting in a partial vacuum within the IG airspace which draws the panes of glass inward. This is why you can use a straight edge to see that the glass is concave.

You cannot have both seal failure and collapsed glass at the same time (okay, there is an exception (there always is), but I won't go into it unless someone asks), because by defintion with collapsed glass the IG seal is still intact and with seal "failure" the seal is no longer intact.

If the seal fails then air can get into the airspace and the glass in your IG unit wil no longer be concave - the vacuum is gone.

The simplest fix for collapsed glass is to vent the airspace by drilling a tiny hole either thru the glass or thru the IG spacer which will allow air into the space, equalizing pressure. The hole is then sealed and the window is again performing at close to the original energy performance specification - less the argon fill. 

Collapsed glass is directly related to the materials and techniques used to manufacture the original IG units. At the time yours were made they were state-of-the-art and no one had even the slightest idea that argon could dissipate thru the spacer material without being replaced by air or that collapsed glass was even possible. 

Modern materials and manufacturing techniques have virtually eliminated this problem (with a few very rare exceptions - almost always related to human error), but back in the early 90's, when your IG's were fabricated, there was no concept that it was even possible. 

Ironically, collapsed glass ultimately means that the IG's were very well made and that the seals have held up very well over the years. Again, and as I have mentioned, if the seals had failed then there wouldn't be a collapsed glass issue.

Collapsing can result in broken glass in the right circumstances relating to the width of the airspace, versus the size and aspect ratio of the IG unit and in your case it sounds like the glass maybe touched at the middle of the IG which could explain the slight break that you have seen at that point. 

The slight "oily'looking" discoloration that you described is very likely to be _Newton's Rings_ which can occur when you have non-parallel surfaces in two lites of glass. Technically, Newton's Rings should only occur when one lite is bowed and one lite is flat, but collapsed glass isn't static, the panes can flex somewhat so Newton's Rings are a possible consequence. 

They are harmless btw, and are simply an interesting sidebar from an optics (physics) standpoint. No doubt less interesting since you have to deal with this problem.

In the event that your glass has actually touched in the center, then the best option is IG replacement rather than repair...but that is something you would have to deal with the window rep.

Since they already replaced six units, the idea that the glass has a one year warranty doesn't hold water. They should deal with you over the remainder since it is the identical problem.

Good luck and hopefully this rather long reply has helped.

And btw, did I happen to write the reply that you saw on the other forum?
Just curious. If someone else wrote it I would be interested in reading it as well.

And great view out those windows!


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

I guess I can mark Pella off my list for my new windows. Thanks for the info. I hope Pella changes their mind and helps you out.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Good description and info on the problem, Oberon. Well written.:thumbup:


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## brymanks (Apr 10, 2009)

Oberon;
Thank you for the very informative reply. I've had the Pella folks tell me they've never seen anything like it. I have a hard time believing that. They were very responsive with the first replacements and I'm in hopes you're right about this 2nd round. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the compliment on the view. We are fortunate to have a view that the windows accent. This was one of the features that drew us to the location but it's much more attractive without the condensation!

Thanks again. Your explanation and detail are well beyond my expectations. You obviously have a depth of knowledge that is a great benefit to this forum.

Brymanks


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## brymanks (Apr 10, 2009)

Oberon;
I also meant to say that it was your tip that I learned of the straight edge indicating collapse. I plan to show it to Pella!

Good stuff!

Brymanks


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

brymanks, 

You are more than welcome, and I would definietly like to know how your next visit with the window rep goes if you don't mind a follow up post.

Good luck!


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

*pella repalcement*

Pella did repalce the large 6x6 window glass. there were 2 windows and they did the first one back in April 09 and then when uppacking the 2nd one they noticed that it too was collapsed in the center so they had to reorder. 3 months later they did get the new glass and just repalced it today.

overall I was pleased that Pella did do a repalcement for both windows with no hassel. my only complaint is it took almost 3 months to get the 2nd replacement.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Now you can have the yellow Pella sticker with a happy face on it instead of a frown. Glad they took care of you.


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

*ring*

Good to hear that your windows are fixed.

Hard to say why it took so long for the second one, sounds like somebody got some wires crossed womewhere. Did you have to remind them about the second one or did they remember to replace it on their own?

Thanks for the follow-up. It is always nice to know the outcomes of issues like yours.

Enjoy!


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

I did call them after about 2 months and said hey, have you forgotten me. they said they did get a replacement but it too was defective. then after another month I called again and they said they had the glass and were going to call me. they did it the next day due to a cancellation of another job. I initated all the calls but hey did get it done. I do think they may have a QC manufacturing or shipping issue with these large windows because several were defective..at least one when it reached the job site.


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

Thanks for the reply.

As a strictly generic comment that may or may not apply to your situation - despite the appearance of not seeming to care, and despite comments that might show up in internet forums, at most every company there are folks who truly do care that their customers are satisfied.

Sometimes a replacement might take awhile simply because they want to make absolutely sure that the customer is 100% satisfied with the replacement product. 

While original off-the-line products go thru a specific set of QA inspections, a replacement is often handled differently, particulary if it has been an on going problem. This can sometimes result in delays because someone at the company has taken a personal interest and wants to make sure that the replacement product is going to be as perfect as they can make it.

Again, this may have no bearing at all on your delay...just kind of thinking outloud.


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

Unbelievable but the replacement installed in August is also defective. First cold day we got the condensation ring and also noticed the small telltale “oil drop” rainbow ring in the center of the window, indicating that the glass is touching or very close…called collapsed glass.

I called Pella and they ordered yet another replacement. These are fairly large vinyl windows, about 6’ square and are not trivial to install…takes 3 people. This is the 3rd or 4th, depending on how you count, window replacement. While Pella has been good about replacement under warranty, I am beginning to wonder if they can make a vinyl window this large without this defect.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm a bit late to the party, but the classic study of "collapsed windows" is:

"A Unique Thermal Problem Found in Certain Double-Glazed Windows"

available at no charge at: http://www.thesnellgroup.com/WhitePapers.aspx


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

yes they talk about leakage of the Argon over time but these are brand new windows so there is some other factor at work here....I'm certianly no expert but you would think that after 4 new windows being bad there is some mfg defect or design problem not associated with long term leakage


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## brymanks (Apr 10, 2009)

*Pella has delivered replacement glass*

I spoke to Pella last Fall and they did come back and inspect the windows we are having problems with. They have graciously offered to replace all panes and sashes with problems at no cost. I'm slow to post this follow up but did want to give this update. They have delivered full panes and are waiting for me to paint before installation. They have already replaced the panes where sashes were not damaged.

I have to say that I'm pleased with their response.

My faith in Pella has been restored. My only concern would be any future issues that may arise on panes that have not been replaced but I'll cross that bridge if it should come to it.


Thanks Pella.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Good to hear when a company stands behind their products.


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## alke46 (Jan 7, 2009)

*Thanks to all on this subject*

I just want to say a great big "thank you" to all who have given their input on the subject of windows and specifically window "brands".

I am getting ready to drop some cash on replacements and was totally confused as to what brand to buy. Now that I have heard all the negative talk associated with Pella brand, I definately will be going with the Andersen brand.

Thanks again for all your inputs. I was especially impressed with the wisdom of board member EmilyP. Thanks again.

Larry


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

And the beat goes on. two and 1/2 years with this problem now. After almost a year and 4 failed repalcements, Pella told me they were going to make a sash with “thicker” glass so it would not collapse. They came over in November 2010 with three guys to install…keep in mind that this is the 5TH replacement try. As soon as they unpacked the glass, one of the install guys said he would test the new glass by marking both sides in the middle with a sharpie…apparently that makes it easier to see if the glass is touching or close to touching. Once he did this, he said the glass was defective and there was no use in even installing it. They repacked it and put it back on the truck.

This was mid November and I have not heard from the since. No calls, nothing. I worte Pella headquarters indicating I was thinking of having another manufacturer install a replacement and sent the bill to Pella. They wrote back saying they would contact me by December 23rd but it’s not mid January and I have still heard nothing. I may have to go to court to get them to pay for a replacement since it’s clear they cannot make a vinyl window this size without the glass collapsing.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Bummer.:excl:
I wonder if any other manufacturers are going to have the same problem if the window is that large. Maybe you need to reconfigure it to 2 smaller windows?:whistling2:


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## fenestrationman (Jun 25, 2009)

Emily
There are a few things that you state that are just not true.
I like the sticker idea.
The glass has not 'hour glassed' and touching at the center. This will transfer the outside cold to the interior lite of glass. Just a thought.


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

*another failure*

and the beat goes on......The Pella company has installed yet another window in August 2011 after the factory engineers assured everyone that the glass was good. well guess what, as soon as it got around 40 deg, I got the condensation ring and actually this window seems to be the worst of all the replacements (5 in all). the ring was about 3 feet in diameter and it's not even cold out yet. I contacted Pella again but have not heard anything back. I have decided to get a repalcement new construction window from another manufacture and let Pella pay for it....I may have to file a lawsuit to do it but I can't think of any other soultion at this point. I'm thinking of using Silverline as my neighbor has one just a little smaller that mine and he has had no problems. Over 3 years now with this problem.......


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## captjackny (Jan 17, 2009)

Final chapter is Pella decided that the solution was to install a new construction wooden window which has thicker glass and also spaced farther apart. glad to report that this window did the trick and has exhibited no evidence of collapsed glass, even down to about 10 deg so far this winter. Install was not easy since they had to rip out the old frame, molding, etc. and reframe in the new window but it was the only way to fix the problem. Kudos to Pella for standing behind their warranty.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

yuri said:


> Put the sticker back on. LOL


And now you won't have to look at that yellow color all the time. :thumbup:


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Ever checked out the web site "Pissed off Consumer"?
There well over 1000 people on there with horror storys of trying to deal with Pella after the sale with product defects.


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