# My Summer Pond Build



## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

So, as some of you may know I am currently an out-of-work Construction Semi-Pro. I know how to dig a ditch and some days I can even layout a Hip Roof if I have a book handy, but this is my first real Masonry and Concrete project and I'm sweating bullets.

My wife and I are building a Koi Pond in our backyard this Summer. We are going with a Concrete Slab Bottom and CMU (Concrete Block) Walls. I hope when it is done it will look something like this:











Its basically a swimming pool for fish. It is 4' deep to help resist our cold winters and drains to an off-set pump house behind the corner of our house.

So the cheapest quote I got on this pond was 23k and the most expensive was 47k. Since I had already done most of the take-off and estimating I knew there was about 7-10k in Materials and couldn't justify the expense since I have the time and _some_ of the skills (although I'm still trying to figure out which ones :whistling2

I started the dig for this last Summer and ran into so much bedrock (sandstone) that I froze up. My original plan called for a trench footing and with no way to do one I punted. I jumped inside and rehabbed a couple of things and educated myself for the coming Spring.

The design has evolved considerably since the initial ideas due to a lot of extra knowledge on the subject and the cold hard reality of jack-hammering a flat building pad. There was no plan for a Filter House originally but they do seem to be the way to go versus the less vigorous "Water Garden Style" pond.

The folks over at Koiphen.com have been very helpful in getting my head screwed on straight.

A few of the design ideas I have:

The Wall Detail:









Not shown are the core pours every other cell and the plastic barrier below the capstones to act as flashing for wall top.


A view of the block walls:










The Filter House:












Well my Toro Dingo has arrived. Time to move some dirt :thumbup:


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## JohninSC (May 5, 2011)

How many bottom drains, TPR's, and what size piping are you planning to use? I'm a poster on Koiphen also.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm going with a KASS 4" Bottom Drain but I'm going to neck it down right away to a 3". There's a no-niche Skimmer on a separate 3" line and they meet up at the Settling Chamber.









I'm doing a single Pump with 2 returns, one to a Waterfall for 3 Seasons and then turn that off and a TPR for the Winter


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

*Today I Learned....*

Heavy Equipment is no substitute for brains (or dynamite). Even the hydraulic breaker was no match for the honest to goodness bedrock I found beneath the sandstone. 









Good for the house foundation, bad for the pond location :no:

So I'm going to have to move the whole mess 12" closer to the house, which means more of the front half will be sitting on Fill. Picked up the 12" Auger attachment when I returned the Breaker just in case the sandstone is 4' down instead of 1'

The 1st 80lb bag of Concrete weighs 80lbs, the 40th bag weighs 2,452lbs


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## coderguy (Jan 10, 2011)

I thought some of my projects were big in scale. I hope you post lots of pics. I love your renderings, were those done in Google Sketchup?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Fancy filtering system---My folks had a big (14x 25) pond---they used a stepped water way filled with plants to filter the pond water--the roots pulled out enough of the pond crud that the water was nearly clear---

The only maintenance was ripping out plants as the spill ways became to over grown to flow properly.

They also had post holes set around the perimeter--in the winter they added metal hoops and made a greenhouse over the pond--

I know your plans are drawn--but I thought you might find that an interesting approach to pond building.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

:laughing:

Thanks Mike. That's what I had originally. :laughing: That's a "Bog Filter" style and up until February I had never heard of any other type. They work well for small fish loads and they're extremely cost efficient. 

I had read about a dozen books last year on Water Gardening and Ponds and none of them ever mentioned any other form of filtering... I don't recall how I found myself over at Koiphen but the Koi and Fancy Goldfish Hobbyists take filtering to a religious level.

All the fancy stuff is _supposed_ to make your life easier in the long run. I'll report back with my results.

By the way, the 80th bag of 80# Concrete weighs slightly more than Baltimore.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I found the answer to that heavy lifting problem----He's my assistant!


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

coderguy said:


> were those done in Google Sketchup?


They were.

I wrote a short tutorial and as soon as I get the slab in and it can cure (aka A Little Break) I'll post it over here.


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## no1hustler (Aug 11, 2010)

Post more pictures!


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

*Setback*

Major setback yesterday. 

I layed out the block on the dirt yesterday and the thing looks like a watering trough. A combination of using 12" block for the base course and having to continually narrow the design due to rock. 

I didn't come all this way to end up with something that looks like a grave in the backyard. 

So the solution is to completely do away with the back block wall and parge the underlying rock with concrete. Which is what petrified me last Summer. I've never done enough with concrete to feel comfortable working with it outside of a form.


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## JohninSC (May 5, 2011)

That stinks on your setback. I'm fortunate that I don't have rock, just a sandy clay mix that stays hard but yet is still easy to dig in. 
This was on my rebuild








Filter pit.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Are there any concerns about digging that close to your house foundation?


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

If I was on anything other than rock I would be concerned but based on my neighbor's claim that the original Builder had to blast to get the foundation in I'm pretty certain I'm on 6-10' of solid bedrock.

The 1st couple of feet were kind of loose and fragmented sandstone but the last 2 feet have been something else entirely. I won't say granite for sure but it doesn't have any layers like sandstone.

It won't fracture along any seam and it has laughed at the Dingo Breaker.

Nice picks John, thanks.

I'll try and put some up tomorrow, I have a bunch but I need to figure out a faster way to resize them.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Although,

if history is any indicator, I probably have something more like this.....










:thumbsup:


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Wow, that's quite an undertaking.
We have a pond since 1997, It's has a EPDM liner, bottom drain
gravity fed system. It is completely a DIY with three mechanical
filter tubs and also a 200 gallon biological pond located 18 feet
away that helps service the main pond via underground tubing.

I see that you're going with a 3" bottom drain, I would recommend
a 4" drain (if it's not too late) 

Is your goal to raise fancy koi? Our goal when we started was to
enhance the landscaping as we're avid gardners. The koi was a bonus,
thus the second year we added on a 6 x 13 addition.

Good luck with your pond build, your adventures are just beinning.

BTW are you planning on butterfly koi?


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## JohninSC (May 5, 2011)

I also would recommend the 4" BD I used 2 of them on my 12x19.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks for the pics guys.

I am using a KASS Bottom Drain (BD) which is 4" but I was going to neck it down to 3" just before the settlement chamber. Mostly to save a few bucks over a 4" Ball Valve.

We don't have much leaf debris and our fish load is going to be pretty light but I'll look into the price swing for keeping the BD 4" all the way.

I think we are going to start with some inexpensive Fancy Goldfish for at least a year, maybe two before we try any Koi.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Cpl. I thought you were building a koi pond, as you said you
hung out at koiphen. They tend to go for the ultra sophisiticated
koi pond set up. Our's is basic, with just three rubbermaid tubs
daisy chained together.
As far as the 4" drain...we have a rock lined shelf all around
the pond and the koi dig in the rock constantly, especially in the lily pots...thus rocks fall
to the bottom and eventually into the bottom drain.

We have discovered a way to get the rocks out with having
to vacuum them out...tie a rag tightly to the center of a long nylon rope...
pull the rope through the drain and then from each side tug on the 
rope and the rocks move through the drain. We keep the rope set up
all the time, so that we just have to tug it a couple of times a week.

I realize you're building a completely different pond than we have,
but here's our set up.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

My wife and I are not real real keen on the expense of Koi. 

Once we have some success with Goldies we'll be more receptive to the risk of losing a fish.

My brother-in-law had a pond full of "feeder" goldies that he got for like $2 each. He went out and bought 2 $30 Koi and the next week something dragged one of them out of the pond for a snack.

Never touched any other fish before or since. 

I like the design of your pond. 

We are going pretty much DIY for the filtering system with 3 barrels. A conical bottom tank for the Settlement Chamber, a 50g barrel for a Moving/Static Bio Filter and a 50g barrel for a Sand and Gravel Filter.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Cpl, our koi ranged from 3.50 to the most expensive being
15.00 Of course that was in 1997...and we still have the same
koi fifteen years later. Our koi have blessed us with beautiful 
babies over the years, and we have given away many fry.
Last year we bought a baby koi that we saw in Pet Smart
for 3.00 cause we couldn't resist him...that's the first koi we have bought 
in the last 12 years or so...There are still bargains out there.

We are lucky that we have huge trees
surrounding our property and other than hawks, other birds of prey
that like fish won't land in our yard because of the trees.

I agree start slowly and get some goldies until you get your pond
groove and know what you're doing. The building of the pond is
the first step, after that it's the maintenance that keeps the pond
clear and healthy. we pride ourselves in never using chemicals,
we don't even own a UV light, our pond is clear from just routine filter cleanings, and aggressive
water changes by letting the hose run in
the pond for 10 to 15 minutes each day...we estimate that this amounts
to about 30 to 40 % water exchanges each week. The fish thrive on water
exchanges. We only lost one koi in 15 years. My favorite of course.

We gave away all our goldies the second year (except for our first
goldy "Spot" ) after we got hooked on the friendly koi.
Spot is now 15 and still growing strong.

Here is the footprint of the pond in the snow... It is shaped like an irrigular horseshoe.
in the upper right you can see
the biological pond that aids in keeping our pond clear. 
The add on part is what we call
the dogleg it's approximately 6' x 13'...it provided a lot more 
swimming room for the koi.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Two Knots said:


> aggressive
> water changes by letting the hose run in
> the pond for 10 to 15 minutes each day


Are you on City or Well Water? 

We are on city and I think they add some not-so-fish-friendly chemicals to the water. I suspect the Utility costs would be tough. 

I'm working on some rain collection ideas as I go along but someone over on Koiphen mentioned the ph and other factors in Rainwater are all wrong. Still, might be cheaper and safer to collect rainwater and then treat it for ph than use City.....


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

We have city water, here on Long Island water is cheap. We don't
have to think about the cost of water. Ya know Koi are tough, we don't even 
have to add de-clor to our water. 
They can take a little chlorene.

As far as filteration is concerned we have about 7 or 8 pond pumps
that range from 250 to 700 gph. We have 3 pumps from harbor freight
that cost 12.00 each...Ponding can be as expensive as you want to
make it. We consider it an inexpensive hobby, as our DIY filter system
was done on the cheap...

We usually have about 4 to 6 little
waterfalls going at one time...we also have a 1200 gph pump for
the large waterfall, but that is only used for short periods, usually
for the tourists.. 

This is the way we built our pond fifteen years ago, before the internet
was a factor in pond planning...we did it from library books.

This is the way we did our pond with the shelves...it is around the entire
perimeter of the pond, thus no liner is showing...

I took a few videos today with my flip share to show the gin clear water, but
forgot how to load them on youtube? 
So I'll go pick out a couple of old ones...

You're set on making a cement pond, rather than a EPDM liner pond?











This is the operation, the water runs through the bottom drain,
then the filter tubs, then travels under ground to the bio pond, 
the water then runs through the bio pond getting scrubbed by all the plants in the way, 
then 
travels 
back underground and spills back into the main pond from under the small dock.










This is an overview from our deck of the pond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0_Lc7D_D6U&list=UULP87dSEY_4XqvhBLADK_EA&index=3&feature=plcp

This is to show the Bio pond in the bac @ about 14 seconds in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=wM1pRF7uYNY

This is to show you how friendly koi are...It's a little long but you can fast forward through it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGhs2uIroYM&feature=channel&list=UL


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Finally a little visible progress.










Dryfit only right now as I still need to hash out the details of the return from the Sand and Gravel Filter.

Large PVC is _much_ harder to work with than typical indoor sizes. Bring a friend


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## Ralph Coolong (Jun 19, 2013)

CplDevilDog said:


> Heavy Equipment is no substitute for brains (or dynamite). Even the hydraulic breaker was no match for the honest to goodness bedrock I found beneath the sandstone.
> 
> View attachment 51875
> 
> ...


I hear that


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Good morning Cpl...quite the project you have going there.

I have a pond just about 100% the opposite of yours, but definitely no Koi, although everyone who sees the pond always asks if I am going to add Koi soon. The mink and herons would make short work of the fish, and besides with a depth of only about 18" I don't think it would be deep enough for the fish.

As far as sandstone goes, we apparently have that down to about 800 feet, and then it is granite. I was told that by an old well driller several years ago. So I understand what sort of sandstone you have...it is way tougher than most people think.

You seem to have adapted to your local conditions pretty well and I hope your pond comes out to your liking. Mine is more the natural looking type...if there is such a thing.


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## Ralph Coolong (Jun 19, 2013)

That's very nice.


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## Troy32 (Dec 8, 2012)

Two Knots - I love your pond. I just bought a house with a waterfall that goes into a 10ft by 10ft pond that then goes into a 40 ft river which goes into another 20ft by 20 ft pond. It was all professionally done and is beautiful. It is currently empty and we are considering filling it now. 

I am also on Long Island and I would like to know what the electric cost to run all of your pumps etc (if you do not mind saying)


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Firstly, I think I know this pond...do you have a big L shaped
swimming pool as well?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Getting back to your question, we run 4 small pumps all
the time 24/7 ...most of them are 250 to 500 GPH pumps.
we only run the big waterfall on occasion. 
we usually run 3 - 250 GPH pumps in the main pond and
1 -250 GPH in the biological pond in season from early spring
until late fall. 
In the winter we run one 2 pumps in the
in the main pond...( you actually don't have to run any pumps in
the winter, but have to keep an opening in the ice with an air stone
if you don't run a pump.

Back of the envelope math, it costs about a total of 6.00 a month
( less in the winter) to run all the small pumps. 

We have a bottom drain gravity fed system and
If you have the pond that I think you have, you have the 
same system ...BTW, you will need a big pump
to run the 40 foot river. 

We have a lot of pumps ( probably 7 or 8) ranging from 250 to 4000 GPH , however,
we use the small pumps that we purchased at harbor freight
for 12.00 to 15.00 a pump.


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## Troy32 (Dec 8, 2012)

No pool. Just the ponds. I know I would need a large pump to move the water up 8 feet to the top of the waterfall. I was expecting to see an electric bill of $100 a month similar to a pool.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

You can figure out the approximate cost of your pump, by the wattage.
How many watts your pump is x how much you pay per KWH.

If your pump uses a 100 watts -- in 10 hours it uses a 1000 watts per hour and that would be a KWH. 
Then look on the electric how much you pay per KWH...(I hope I'm explaining this right)

We also have a 1000 and a 2500 gph pump...We only use the 1000 per hour pump on the waterfall when 
we have tourists visiting. I rather like a series of small waterfalls. 
I mention this cause you can just use a couple of small pumps like we do
and use the big pumps on ocassion for impact. 

How long is this pond empty? Is it EDM liners? It's not good to keep them
empty.


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## Troy32 (Dec 8, 2012)

It has water in it. The previous owner did not take care of it so it has leaves etc in it. I am in the process of emptying it to clean it. I was trying to decide if I should fill it back up or leave it empty. I was under the impression I would need to keep the big pump running contantly to sustain fish. If I could get away with some smaller pumps I would consider it.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Do not leave it empty, the liner will dry out and be ruined.

If you're not putting fish in it until Spring, you do not have to run any pumps.

It's kind of late in the season to add fish anyhow. After you clean the pond and add
water -- the pond needs to cycle first and develope good bacteria or the fish
will not survive. 
Do you have a bottom drain? If you do is it a gravity fed system?
A gravity
fed system is when the filter tub(s) are at the same level as the pond.


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## Troy32 (Dec 8, 2012)

I believe it is a bottom drain. There is a filter tub at the top of the water fall and another even with the big pond as well. I do not know much about the whole set up yet. I need to get it completly empty and explore a bit.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Terrific, a bottom drain is essential in a large pond. It circulates the water
24/7 from the pond through the filter tubs, thus trapping all the waste
in the filter tubs. There is no need to ever empty your pond for cleaning.


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## Bennylava (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a koi pond and have been in the pond hobby for a while now. If it has not already been mentioned in this thread, here are a few pointers.

1. You need an air pump to go in your pond as well. Simply having a waterfall is not enough. Get a good air pump made for ponds, they're usually $100 or more, but they'll come with everything you need. 

2. Stay away from goldfish, just get koi. Goldfish breed like rabbits and it becomes very difficult to keep your pond the way it should be. Koi don't breed as much. For some strange reason, my koi only seem to have 1 baby per year. Odd. Anyway, you don't want too many fish in your pond. There is a set number of fish that you can have, per 1000 gallons. Otherwise death and disease will run rampant. Just like with people, you don't cram 50 people into a 200 square foot room and have them live there. Bad idea. I have a 3,500 gallon pond, and I keep 10 koi. Its more than enough to see them all the time.

3. You want some kind of shade, or cover that the fish can get into. I have a pergola covering my entire pond. They don't like direct sun very much. They need a place where they can get to the shade, even if your pond has a lot of algae. Another benefit of a covered pond is the fact that birds will try to eat your fish. Those big cranes can be a problem, and once one of them has found your pond, you will have to kill the bird. It will keep coming back until it has eaten all your fish. If your pond is covered by something, the birds can't see it from the air. Trust me I've had to shoot several of those damned birds. You don't want to have to do that. 

4. You need some kind of bio-filtration. You need a 55 gallon drum filter, for every 1,000 gallons of pond that you have. This is THE ONLY thing that will kill your algae problem. You have all this media in the drum, that the water flows through. It houses bacteria that will eat all the nutrients in the water. All the fish waste. Without those nutrients, algae cannot survive. If you do not have a bio filter, DO NOT kill all of your algae with chemicals or whatever. The algae are feeding on the fish poop. You either need a bio filtration setup, or you need your water to be green and murky with algae. One or the other. If you kill all the algae with chemicals, your fish will essentially be living in a big toilet full of their own bodily waste. That's not how you would want to live. Once you have your bio filters set up, count on at least 6 weeks before your water starts to get clear. At least. This process can be sped up however, by introducing the correct bacteria into your water. You can buy it at a pond store. It will make its home in the filter and speed up the process. 

5. Do not overfeed your fish. But don't underfeed them either. Koi are hungry carp, and they kind of eat a lot. If you don't feed them enough, they'll snack on your water plants. They may do it anyway. I'd keep plants that they don't really like the taste of, like cat tails and water lilies. Some of those nice fancy plants they sell at the pond stores will be gobbled up in no time, and some of them are actually poisonous to your fish. So make sure any plant you put in there can be safe for koi to eat. Google will help you with that one. 

6. Koi can be tamed to eat from your hand, but this is a long process and it takes a lot of patience and time. The best way to do it is have them in a fish tank when they are little, and only let them eat out of your hand. Their hunger will overcome their fear and they'll get used to it and eventually it won't bother them anymore. 

7. You can't put tap water in your pond, you have to dechlorinate it first. Kind of obvious but hey. A lot of people have killed a lot of koi by just running a hose into the pond with no de-chlorinator.


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## jerrydelup (Jul 6, 2016)

*Reply to: My Summer Pond Build*

*Excellent CplDevilDog & JohninSC, all of you! Your photos, comments & graphics are quite elegant. Very useful. I already followed this thinking, instruction-ally, adding my own twists. So far all functions are reliable. I added a nice cascade but did not start adding life yet. In Florida the soil is soft, wet & cracks in concrete, according to much advise, will form. Of the few choices on sealing &/or coating might you have advise there too? 
*


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## jerrydelup (Jul 6, 2016)

*Very Very Cool! Here's what I learned on leak prevention in pond construction: **Spray-Lining & Coatings of Polyurea are compared to rubbery textile sheets, called EPDM, hard fiberglass, gunite, cement & various "traditional" coatings which are not elastomeric. In the long run the biggest difference is elastomeric Spray-Lining & Coatings' which is flexible but strongest in tensile & adhesion vs anything hard or rubber which inevitably become brittle, crack then leak. That is why Spray-on Lining of Polyurea was literally invented via Bayer laboratory long ago. It's been more specialized or for bigger industrial spray-lining applications, mainly due to high expense of specialized spray equipment that created thicker, "Lining" & superior coatings. The drop-in, plastic truck bed liner comparisons to Spray-in Lining coating is similar as drop ins are cheaper but not in the long run. Now DIY Koi Pond Spray-Lining Coatings exist that is in fact Polyurea in smaller quantities as DIY Spray-on Lining kits for Koi Ponds, Waterscapes, various other ponds, cascades; various water, liquids held in tanks & live water garden containment. These kits are called Rhino Pro at Rhino Linings, Seal Tite at Spray-Lining & Coatings which are actual polyurea. I found Pond Armor, Pond Shield, Herco Rubber & Rubberizeit! to have complaints & be inferior in the long run. *


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