# New Service Entrance Cable to be installed. Upgrade to 200amp?



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I would have the service from the weather head down to (and including) the meter socket sized for 200 amp. Even if you have to pay for the upgrade.
I would also have it done in conduit vs SE cable. JMO


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## Joconfire (Sep 17, 2012)

If the sellers are paying, it may be hard to get an upgrade. You would need permission from the sellers to do this, you can't go around them to the electrician and only talk to him.

BTW, SE Cable is perfectly fine.


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

I'll try to get in touch with the electrician and see what his plans are.

Is replacing the service cable a big enough job that I will save signifiantly by just paying the difference on the full install? I'm wondering if once he's on site, has POCO on site (if necessary), and had his hands in the system, that going the extra step and swaping the service out might not cost me as much as having him come out later and do the rest of the upgrade?


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

Joconfire said:


> If the sellers are paying, it may be hard to get an upgrade. You would need permission from the sellers to do this, you can't go around them to the electrician and only talk to him.
> 
> BTW, SE Cable is perfectly fine.


Right, that may be an issue. But I might be able to work something out with them if it's worth my effort.


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## Joconfire (Sep 17, 2012)

Joeboo25 said:


> Right, that may be an issue. But I might be able to work something out with them if it's worth my effort.


I assume the house is all natural gas (Heat, hot water, stove/oven, dryer)?

A lot of people go overboard on services. 200A is the new standard and it's at a good price point, but not always necessary. I wouldn't go spending too much money.


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

Joconfire said:


> I assume the house is all natural gas (Heat, hot water, stove/oven, dryer)?


I wish. Unfortunately I'm all electric, so I imagine overload problems are possible. If I have to cough up a significant amount of cash to do the upgrade, I'll probably wait until we move in and have a better feel for our needs. But, if I can save by working a deal up front, the extra service would be a nice safety net.


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

Can you ask the sellers to escrow the fund? or just give you the money?

Tell them you are planning to hire the electrician to upgrade the panel and this way, they don't have to wait around while this work in being done.

I'd say that's a win-win!

BTW, when I upgrade to 200 amp for my 1966 house, the electrician said he almost always replaces everything from meter to inside


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

In my opinion it's a necessity for an all electric house. Call the electrician and ask what the upgrade would cost at the time of the replacement. Pay for it yourself if you have to, you will pay much more later. The labor is already factored in.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

to have one done now and another later will cost a ton more than upgrading the current work. If the sellers reasonable at all they'll pay for the original estimate and let you cover the rest.


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## fdiddy (May 8, 2010)

If they're replacing the wire from the weatherhead to the meter, just tell them to use 200A wire (pay the difference if you have to - it will be in the tens of dollars). Then you can upgrade the panel yourself - it's very easy. Even replacing the service wire is easy yourself. If you're uncomfortable doing that, getting an electrician to do it later isn't going to cost much more.

BTW, where I'm from, a straight panel upgrade with sufficiently sized service wire already in place is almost universally $1500. Full replacement including new wire up to the point of connection would be about $2500 because of the POCO charges for disconnection and connection.


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

fdiddy said:


> If they're replacing the wire from the weatherhead to the meter, just tell them to use 200A wire (pay the difference if you have to - it will be in the tens of dollars). Then you can upgrade the panel yourself - it's very easy. Even replacing the service wire is easy yourself. If you're uncomfortable doing that, getting an electrician to do it later isn't going to cost much more.
> 
> BTW, where I'm from, a straight panel upgrade with sufficiently sized service wire already in place is almost universally $1500. Full replacement including new wire up to the point of connection would be about $2500 because of the POCO charges for disconnection and connection.


Why do it twice. That means two permits, two inspections, two times with no power, etc.
Seems silly.


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## bobelectric (Mar 3, 2007)

Negotiate for an upgrade at least 150. You are gas ,but you can't say what goes on in the future. Service complete.


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

fdiddy said:


> ...because of the POCO charges for disconnection and connection.


Is that common with all POCOs, or maybe something specific to your area? Do they charge to replace the meters, line wires or whatever?


I've had my realtor contact the electrician and I should hear from him today about the difference. I agree there's no point in double paying for permits, inspections, service calls, etc.


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

fdiddy said:


> ....Then you can upgrade the panel yourself - it's very easy. Even replacing the service wire is easy yourself. If you're uncomfortable doing that, getting an electrician to do it later isn't going to cost much more.....


Unless the house already has a standalone disconnect, don't you have to pull the meter out to replace the main panel?

I consider myself to be fairly handy but that is where I draw the line about what I should not do. 

Besides, where I live, only a licensed electrician is allowed to pull a meter...


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

Joeboo25 said:


> Is that common with all POCOs, or maybe something specific to your area? Do they charge to replace the meters, line wires or whatever?...


When I upgraded mine, I was told that a wire from the pole to meter was POCO's responsibility (if it needed to be upgraded) but I had to pay for a new meter.


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

allthumbsdiy said:


> Unless the house already has a standalone disconnect, don't you have to pull the meter out to replace the main panel?
> 
> I consider myself to be fairly handy but that is where I draw the line about what I should not do.
> 
> Besides, where I live, only a licensed electrician is allowed to pull a meter...


No doubt. I'm fine changing outlets or running new cable on the inside, but I'm going to leave this one to the professionals.


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## fdiddy (May 8, 2010)

I don't know how far you're allowed to go with a homeowner's permit.

The POCO's responsibility ends at the triplex or quadruplex splices. The wire, conduit, and meter base all belong to the homeowner and therefore is his or her responsibility.

Many large North American cities are upgrading to smart meters which are universal up to 200A, so if you see that coming in the near future for your area, you won't have to purchase a new meter (which I believe can cost into the thousands for digital meters )

If you're so inclined (and permitted by law), pulling a meter is just a little bit more intense than pulling a cord out of a receptacle - easy way to save a grand or so! Once you pull the meter, you don't have to worry about a live panel, so the rest of the work should go fast and easy.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

fdiddy said:


> _Once you pull the meter, you don't have to worry about a live panel, so the rest of the work should go fast and easy.[/_quote]
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with changing the SE?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

The price difference between a 100A load center vs 200A is maybe $20......The wire? Ok...that is maybe another $50 (on a bad day)...

Overall, the price difference between 100A vs 200A is maybe $100.....

Labor is basically the same.

So...do it now.........but if you decide to do it later....you are basically starting over.


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## ItsaSpider (Sep 20, 2012)

ddawg16 said:


> The price difference between a 100A load center vs 200A is maybe $20......The wire? Ok...that is maybe another $50 (on a bad day)...
> 
> Overall, the price difference between 100A vs 200A is maybe $100.....
> 
> ...


This is not really accurate.

In general, you can expect to pay anywhere from $500 to $1,200 more for a new 200A SE service than a 100A SE service. A large franchise electrical contractor may very well charge $1,500+ more.

I hate when people start picking apart prices of material like that and try to regionalize a low price, it simply won't work on anyone except for a Craigslist handyman. 

Home Depot did this to us, customers see that 30' of romex is $20, a box is $2, a breaker is $4 so when we try to charge $300-400 for a new receptacle they think we are insane or trying to steal from them. They don't realize all the other costs of doing business.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I just did my service. The 4/0 wire for 200A service was too big a diameter for my old meter box and my old breaker panel. Had to change out everything. Home owners are allowed to do their own work here in Dayton so the cost was not that bad around $1000 for the 30/40 panel, new meter box, 2 1/2" conduit, and cable.


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## ItsaSpider (Sep 20, 2012)

PoleCat said:


> I just did my service. The 4/0 wire for 200A service was too big a diameter for my old meter box and my old breaker panel. Had to change out everything. Home owners are allowed to do their own work here in Dayton so the cost was not that bad around $1000 for the 30/40 panel, new meter box, 2 1/2" conduit, and cable.


Why would you use 2.5" pipe?


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## Dierte (Jan 23, 2011)

ItsaSpider said:


> Why would you use 2.5" pipe?


Cause thats what poco around hear requires for mast poles


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

ItsaSpider said:


> Why would you use 2.5" pipe?


 The POCO here *always* requires a larger pipe (3") from the pole to the service....then they reduce it at the pole. It's their thing I guess.
:yes:


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## ItsaSpider (Sep 20, 2012)

If that's what the PoCo wants, then that's what they get. I just can't see a reason why. None of the PoCo's around here require that and I've installed countless 2" RMC masts without a single issue.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

ItsaSpider said:


> If that's what the PoCo wants, then that's what they get. I just can't see a reason why. None of the PoCo's around here require that and I've installed countless 2" RMC masts without a single issue.


It was 2" here too not that long ago.


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## Joeboo25 (Sep 18, 2012)

Well, the electrican quoted $1100 additional for the upgrade. Sounds like you guys were in the ballpark. I don't know how much he is charging to do just the cable yet, so I'm not quite sure how he squares up with the local market. I don't like putting out that much without a couple estimates, but technically he's the seller's contractor at this point so I'm limited. 

I'm also going to see how much extra he'd charge to just use 200 amp cable.

This whole area upgraded to digital (smart?) meters a couple years ago, so I assume that expense isn't on the list.


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

I think my upgrade cost around $2250 back in 2006 (new service riser, masthead, conduit, main panel, breakers, ground).

Few suggestions:

1. If you plan on adding circuits yourself in the future, I would also take some now to research panels to see which you would prefer (Cutler Hammer, Square D Homeline, Siemens, etc; I ended up choosing Square D QO series);

2. Maybe pros can weigh in but if I had to do it over again, I would get a separate main disconnect from the meter. That way when I am adding a circuit, I know the panel is 100% de-energized.

3. I would make sure the SE cable enters from the top. My electrician ended up routing it from the bottom of the main panel and it severely limits the working space on the side where 2 wires are.

Congrats on your home purchase and good luck!


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

PoleCat said:


> I just did my service. The 4/0 wire for 200A service was too big a diameter for my old meter box and my old breaker panel. Had to change out everything. Home owners are allowed to do their own work here in Dayton so the cost was not that bad around $1000 for the 30/40 panel, new meter box, 2 1/2" conduit, and cable.


polecat-

how did you change out the meter box? isn't service riser energized?


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I had se cable stapled all over the side of my house up to a weather head under the peak of a gable with a 30" eave. The drop was lagged onto this eave then down to the weather head. I installed all the new equipment close to where my panel is located in the basement (about 10~12 feet to the west) so I did not have to disturb any any of the old wiring until switch over day.


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## allthumbsdiy (Jul 15, 2012)

thanks for the info.

btw, who made the cutover, your electrician or the utility person?


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

SNORT! I did. The puco guys never even went inside. They had me go in and yank the meter ( it was in the basement too, new one outside per their specs ) I had already removed the old meter box and panel from the mounting board and had them tied up out of the way so I could go ahead and mount/wire the new panel. New meter box was outside under the mast. All I had to do after they moved the drop was move 12 circuits from the panel to the new and we were back in business. Power interuption was about 30 minutes.


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