# Dusk/Dawn Switch



## MoJoe (Feb 21, 2006)

I'm in the process of finishing my basement and I'm trying a visual trick with the windows. The entire basement is mostly below grade and without window wells so the windows are only 12 inchest tall and very close to the ceiling. I'm lowering the window opening on the inside of the wall and putting wood shutter/blinds up to cover the lower part of the opening. In between the block wall and the wodden shutter/blinds I'm installing a floresent light to simulate daylight. This way you will be able to clearly see out of the top of the opening through the window but the bottom part of the opening will obstructed by the blinds, you will also not be able to see the bottom of the window frame so it will appear that the window extends all the way to the bottom of the opening.

I'm looking for a way to have the light come on at dawn
and go off at dusk to mimic daylight. I don't want to use a timer becasue I'd have to change it too often, and I've only been able to find dusk/dawn sensors that turn on at night and off at first light.

Dose anyone know of such a device or has anyone attempted this before?


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## acetek1 (Jan 1, 2007)

deleted


MoJoe said:


> I'm in the process of finishing my basement and I'm trying a visual trick with the windows. The entire basement is mostly below grade and without window wells so the windows are only 12 inchest tall and very close to the ceiling. I'm lowering the window opening on the inside of the wall and putting wood shutter/blinds up to cover the lower part of the opening. In between the block wall and the wodden shutter/blinds I'm installing a floresent light to simulate daylight. This way you will be able to clearly see out of the top of the opening through the window but the bottom part of the opening will obstructed by the blinds, you will also not be able to see the bottom of the window frame so it will appear that the window extends all the way to the bottom of the opening.
> 
> I'm looking for a way to have the light come on at dawn
> and go off at dusk to mimic daylight. I don't want to use a timer becasue I'd have to change it too often, and I've only been able to find dusk/dawn sensors that turn on at night and off at first light.
> ...


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## jwhite (Mar 12, 2006)

Any photo cell or photo eye will work. They are available at almost any place that sells electrical parts, including the big box stores.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Deleted


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## jwhite (Mar 12, 2006)

MoJo, I missed the part about needing to reverse the logic so that the lights come on in the day time.

I would run the photo eye through a control relay to change the logic.

Google RIB relay look for SPDT this is a bit more complex in wiring, but will give you good long lasting results.

If you like I can do up a wiring diagram. Let me know.


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## acetek1 (Jan 1, 2007)

*We only want to help*

deleted

quote=Speedy Petey;28367]acetek, so nice of you to make your first post a BLATANT advertisement.

Also, the OP is in Maryland. That is in the US if your weren't sure. Do you think it would make ANY sense for him to buy electrical products from the UK???? Especially considering you guys are 3500 miles away and use a different system than us???

I guess that doesn't matter, as long as your advertisement is out there.



How about a mod delete that post? And then mine.[/quote]


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

I guess you did not read the TOS when you joined:

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## acetek1 (Jan 1, 2007)

I have deleted every thing. Sorry for the missunderstanding



Speedy Petey said:


> I guess you did not read the TOS when you joined:
> 
> http://www.diychatroom.com/faq.php?faq=diychatroom_faq#faq_advertising
> 
> ...


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## acetek1 (Jan 1, 2007)

*Heres an idea for you*

To get a realisic effect and this is something i tried when i was working in design in the office lighting industry in the UK. You firstly need to position your a lighting rig on a wall at window height. The lighting should contain 8 x T8 fluorescent lamps. 4 of the lamps should have a colour temperature of 6500k (north light colour) the other four should be run on dimmable electronic ballasts with a colour temperature of 2700k (warm white). Place a diffusing sheet of opal acrylic in front of the lamps. Place a white slatted blind in front of the whole thing. When you have finished, light the room as you have in the rest of your house but connect the colour 6500k lamps to come on with your normal room light. This will give you a feeling of a real window as colour 6500k lamps are day light. Connect the dimmable ballasts with the warm white lamps to a random timer. when the random timer switches on the warm white lamps slowly get brighter untill the room has a warm bright glow. This will give a great feeling. it is like the sun busting through the clouds. and as the random timer switches off it feel like the sun has been blocked by clouds. To enhance this effect further wirer a 500 watt infared heater to the warm white lamps and place above your fake window. This will give you the occasional heat bursts as the warm white lamps fill the room with light. 








MoJoe said:


> I'm in the process of finishing my basement and I'm trying a visual trick with the windows. The entire basement is mostly below grade and without window wells so the windows are only 12 inchest tall and very close to the ceiling. I'm lowering the window opening on the inside of the wall and putting wood shutter/blinds up to cover the lower part of the opening. In between the block wall and the wodden shutter/blinds I'm installing a floresent light to simulate daylight. This way you will be able to clearly see out of the top of the opening through the window but the bottom part of the opening will obstructed by the blinds, you will also not be able to see the bottom of the window frame so it will appear that the window extends all the way to the bottom of the opening.
> 
> I'm looking for a way to have the light come on at dawn
> and go off at dusk to mimic daylight. I don't want to use a timer becasue I'd have to change it too often, and I've only been able to find dusk/dawn sensors that turn on at night and off at first light.
> ...


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

jwhite said:


> Any photo cell or photo eye will work. They are available at almost any place that sells electrical parts, including the big box stores.


Don't see how this would work unless used to control a relay, because the typical photo cell does just the oppsoite; turns off during daylight, not on.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

acetek1 said:


> To get a realisic effect and this is something i tried when i was working in design in the office lighting industry in the UK. You firstly need to position your a lighting rig on a wall at window height. The lighting should contain 8 x T8 fluorescent lamps. 4 of the lamps should have a colour temperature of 6500k (north light colour) the other four should be run on dimmable electronic ballasts with a colour temperature of 2700k (warm white). Place a diffusing sheet of opal acrylic in front of the lamps. Place a white slatted blind in front of the whole thing. When you have finished, light the room as you have in the rest of your house but connect the colour 6500k lamps to come on with your normal room light. This will give you a feeling of a real window as colour 6500k lamps are day light. Connect the dimmable ballasts with the warm white lamps to a random timer. when the random timer switches on the warm white lamps slowly get brighter untill the room has a warm bright glow. This will give a great feeling. it is like the sun busting through the clouds. and as the random timer switches off it feel like the sun has been blocked by clouds. To enhance this effect further wirer a 500 watt infared heater to the warm white lamps and place above your fake window. This will give you the occasional heat bursts as the warm white lamps fill the room with light.


Wow, that sounds like some set up, but sounds like way too much maintence for a home setting.


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## jwhite (Mar 12, 2006)

troubleseeker said:


> Don't see how this would work unless used to control a relay, because the typical photo cell does just the oppsoite; turns off during daylight, not on.


Thus my post that became no 5 in this thread. Are you just seeking trouble???? :laughing:


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## kingkong (Nov 8, 2007)

*Same Boat*

G'day All, am in the same boat, needed a Dawn to Dusk sensor switch that auto turns ON during the day and OFF at night. I bet someone will know how to reverse the existing Dusk to Dawn sensor switch which is readily available.

Thanks in Advance.

Kingkong


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*ON at Dusk, OFF at Dawn photo timer*

I'm surprised there's not a commercial unit to do this. There are many, many things that are operated in this cycle. Fountains, daytime animation displays, daylight simulators, daylight only webcams, etc. etc.

I have an OLD digital timer about 15 years old that will do this, BUT it's not capable of handling outdoor service.

Can anyone steer me to a commercial product? :nerd:


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## Haligonian (Jun 4, 2011)

you could reverse the logic with a relay fairly easily. Not sure how much relays go for though.


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## Haligonian (Jun 4, 2011)




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## Haligonian (Jun 4, 2011)

sorry my paint skills suck


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

Try this timer.










HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN!! This thread is almost 5 yrs old. Missed that.


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*Fine timer but no photo cell*

I'm looking for a photo cell actuated digital timer that will go ON at Dawn and OFF at dusk carrying a moderate fractional hp 120V AC load.

Everything on the market seems to be OFF at Dawn and ON at Dusk ....


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

BobbyParagon said:


> I'm surprised there's not a commercial unit to do this. There are many, many things that are operated in this cycle. Fountains, daytime animation displays, daylight simulators, daylight only webcams, etc. etc.
> 
> I have an OLD digital timer about 15 years old that will do this, BUT it's not capable of handling outdoor service.
> 
> Can anyone steer me to a commercial product? :nerd:


This thread is from 2007. Are you asking the same question as the original poster? If so, it's been fairly well answered above: use a normal dusk-dawn control with a relay. If not... the OP's long gone by now. :wink:


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

BobbyParagon said:


> I have an OLD digital timer about 15 years old that will do this, BUT it's not capable of handling outdoor service.
> 
> Can anyone steer me to a commercial product? :nerd:


there are plenty of outdoor rated timers available


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*Not JUST an 'outdoor' timer needed*

The need is for a *photo cell activated timer* that operates

_*ON at Dawn and OFF at Dusk ...
*_​
Simple enought NO? But believe it or NOT I haven't found one with this capability. ..
one that photo cell activated that will turn ON at first light and OFF in the evening ...

I've found many with all kinds of bells and whistles geared to Night and LOW LIGHT actuation with various shut off options but nothing with the ON at Dawn feature and OFF at Dusk.

Surely there're fountains and other daylight displays, security cameras, etc. that are ONLY USED during DAYLIGHT hours.

I just haven't been able to find any commerical units.. I've Googled and Bing'd " ON at Dawn and OFF at Dusk" timer and haven't found ANY!


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

BobbyParagon said:


> The need is for a *photo cell activated timer* that operates
> 
> _*ON at Dawn and OFF at Dusk ...*_​
> Surely there're fountains and other daylight displays, security cameras, etc. that are ONLY USED during DAYLIGHT hours.


 
I must be missing something.... If you simply use a timer, why can't you set it to come ON at 8 am and go OFF at 8pm ( or whatever)


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*RE: Regular OUTDOOR Timer*

That's what I have been doing. I was hoping for a commercial unit that I could plug in and forget and yet be tied changing daylight hours only including daylight savings time. 

And I'd agree too that I'm not willing to shell out big $$$$ for a do all/end all commercial unit, IF I could find one. 

What's surprised me is that there apparently aren't any available.


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## Mr Chips (Mar 23, 2008)

BobbyParagon said:


> What's surprised me is that there apparently aren't any available.


I'd think the market for these would be so small it's not worthwhile. Business customers would be the biggest market (i'm guessing) and they'd probably just set a timer that corresponds to their business hours. I really can't think of any examples where this would be a common need. People that use fountains and " daylight displays" would probably light them up at night with a standard photo switch. security cameras would use IR at night, and they switch over automatically


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*I don't disagree*

The market would be small. But what would it take with micro controlled controlled unit to add the feature.

Anyway ... I'll let you know if I turn anything up. Be sure of that.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Well...there's always X10 technology. It works for me on most of my lighting needs. You already have the expensive part (the computer). It is 99% reliable, and gives you ultimate flexibility. I've been using it for 12 years now with little problem.


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## stan2004 (Apr 11, 2012)

BobbyParagon said:


> The market would be small. But what would it take with micro controlled controlled unit to add the feature.
> 
> Anyway ... I'll let you know if I turn anything up. Be sure of that.


Did you ever find something off-the-shelf? I did a similar search and the 2 leading candidates (other than a DIY photocell/relay circuit) are 

1) conventional dusk-to-dawn power strip that has an accessible or replace-able internal SPDT relay re-wired to use the opposite throw. But I'd prefer not to fool with wiring, soldering, etc.

2) $1 night-lite affixed over photocell of conventional $15-20 dusk-to-dawn garden power-strip that reverses logic. Night-lite comes on at dusk which turns off the power-strip, night-lite turns off at dawn which turns on the power-strip. Conceptually simple, but not so practical and somewhat unsightly! When night-lite bulb fails, strip comes on forever.

Mine is an indoor application and I'm thinking $20 for a light-activated power strip w/ at least 3 AC outlets - not actually a "dawn-to-dusk" application per se.


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## BobbyParagon (Aug 16, 2011)

*Nice Idea ...*

I'm going to give it try. Keep my eye out for one of those dust-to-dawn power strips. And I have a bunch of those night-activated night lites.


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