# SSD Solid State Hard drive versus conventional type



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am in the market for a new Dell 15" laptop for my Gal and want to buy it around Xmas.

Now I see Best Buy has 6 models of them from $700 to $3000 ( never knew you could spend that much on one ) and they all have SSD hard drives.

Is there any drawbacks to them? They seem to hold half as many GB as other brands using conventional ones and other brands are using half SSD and conventional I see. More storage for the same money so why get less?

I heard that like flash drives SSD can lose data accuracy eventually unlike a written standard drive? True and is that a issue?


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

They will eventually "wear out", which is to say they start to lose their charge and information can't be stored in those areas any longer. This isn't something that happens quickly, and is based more on usage then time. Don't defragment solid state drives, it's unnecessary and one way to cause issues sooner. That being said a traditional disk drive will also wear out, it has moving parts and will eventually fail as well in some manner.

Solid state drives are smaller, faster, and more durable. They are resistant to shocks and other physical damage. They offer significantly faster read/write times than hard disks. They are ideal for housing your operating system and if possible all your programs. They will load and operate more efficiently on a solid state drive. For files (photos, videos, documents, etc.) a regular hard disk is fine. There aren't any files that are large enough to make use of the faster solid state drives, so using a larger hard disk drive to store things like that makes sense - hence why some computer manfacturers use both.

You'll probably have a hard time finding a computer that doesn't have a SSD, especially a better one. They are in demand right now, and the advantages far outweigh the very few disadvantages.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I have never had a hard drive crash/break in the 35 yrs I have used PCs and 2 laptops. I had one HP PC die when the main processor would not load at startup or the power supply fizzled out and it just groaned to death.

She has lots of pics but I will keep them on her Toshiba with Win 8 which works well but is getting too darn slow for everything else. I don't want to mess with it to upgrade to Win 10 as it does not have a lot of RAM and has lots of running hours anyway. I have the pics on flash drives in case it dies.

The bit about faster read/write and faster performance interests me and she can easily afford to buy a new Laptop every 6 years anyway as nurses make good $$ here.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

For what it's worth, a solid state drive is exactly like a flash drive - just larger and it interfaces differently with the computer. There's some onboard controllers and such on an SSD to handle the things that a USB flash drive can't, but the method of data storage is identical.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Joeywhat said:


> For what it's worth, a solid state drive is exactly like a flash drive - just larger and it interfaces differently with the computer. There's some onboard controllers and such on an SSD to handle the things that a USB flash drive can't, but the method of data storage is identical.


Does the data degrade after a certain number of years/overwrites?

For example: If you store pics will they still look the same 6 years from now?


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

It's not so much time based as cycle based. Granted, at some point time will play a factor but usually using it too much will cause data degradation before time plays a factor...unless you just load up the drive and leave it sit for a while. I'm not an expert on solid state memory, so the actual terms for some of these parts are unknown to me, but I do understand the general operation of them. Flash memory is basically a bunch of little "sections", and these sections have a permanent charge. As data is written and rewritten to these sections, they will eventually lose their charge, and this is how they fail.

So if you're using a drive a lot it will fail more quickly. Now that being said I'm on year # 6 or 7 on my primary operating system drive, and I use my computer a LOT. Zero issues so far. It's also a very high quality SSD.

I wouldn't store data on a simple flash drive, purely because most of those are cheap and I wouldn't trust them the same as a good solid state drive. I would pick a good solid state drive or a hard disk (they're primary failure mode is through use, if it's stored and rarely used then they last a long while).

Another option, that is arguably the best (safest) is to use a cloud service. This will upload all your pictures, etc. onto a server somewhere. Good cloud services have redundant backups and it's exceedingly rare for one to lose your data. You're files will always be there, just download them if you need them. The downside to this is that obviously you need an internet connection to access them, which may be an issue for you.


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## anyacolo (Oct 3, 2016)

SSD will be slightly faster,

i have built hundreds of PC's in my time,

personally i am still using all spinning drives,

another milli-second is not that important in my life


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Joeywhat said:


> It's not so much time based as cycle based. Granted, at some point time will play a factor but usually using it too much will cause data degradation before time plays a factor...unless you just load up the drive and leave it sit for a while. I'm not an expert on solid state memory, so the actual terms for some of these parts are unknown to me, but I do understand the general operation of them. Flash memory is basically a bunch of little "sections", and these sections have a permanent charge. As data is written and rewritten to these sections, they will eventually lose their charge, and this is how they fail.
> 
> So if you're using a drive a lot it will fail more quickly. Now that being said I'm on year # 6 or 7 on my primary operating system drive, and I use my computer a LOT. Zero issues so far. It's also a very high quality SSD.
> 
> ...


She just uses it for reading emails and basic surfing. Maybe 1-2 hrs per day.

Now with her IPhone 6 and love of Apple she uses it ( IPhone ) more like a mobile computer and the laptop gets less use for emails. Plus she will get a new IPhone to keep up with the Jone's soon.

We need a faster computer with Win 10 to do her work training seminars etc etc but the number of hours she puts on it is usually 1-2 per day so a SSD should not get overused/degraded? Or is that a fair question?


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I have built and sold dozens of custom PCs and my experience is that SSDs boot A LOT faster than mechanical HDs. I mean half the time or less.

Sure SSDs wear out, but so do spinners. Your SSD will likely outlive you and your grandkids.



> One of the measures of SSD endurance is mean-time between failures (MTBF), which is the interval between one failure and the next. MTBF is expressed in hours, and most industrial SSDs have ratings between 2 million hours (about 228 years), or 5 million hours or 570 years.


.more: Debunking common SSD myths

Defragging is necessary on SSDs too. It has nothing to do with the storage media, it is all about keeping the drive efficient. Fragmented files slow down the whole show.
.
.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

Defragging is absolutely not necessary on a solid state drive. There is no extra time spent "finding" the fragmented data when it's trying to read something, there just isn't any benefit to it. There's no moving parts, it doesn't "search" for anything like a hard disk would. The seek time on a SSD is so hilariously low that you wouldn't notice a different before and after.

Edited to add: the "seek time" on an SSD isn't even measure the same way because it's not performed like a hard disk. Hard disks have to move parts to a location on the disk to read that data. That time varies and it's relatively slow. If portions of a file are all over the physical disk space the parts have to move more and that increases read times. A SSD takes the same amount of time to access any of its storage locations, so pulling data from one area takes the exact same time as pulling it from some other area... And the time it takes for that is VERY quick. 

Drive failures happen. Both for hard disks and solid state. Usually however they do not. SSD's are more robust in terms of "wear and tear" then a hard disk, so it's less of an issue and nothing to worry about. If you're worried about losing important data then it needs to be backed up. Any device can fail due to a defect, so don't take the chance.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am more concerned if I put new pics on a SSD will they look exactly the same 6-7 yrs from now.

The article posted by ZZZZ mentions Industrial SSDs. Are the new consumer grade ones the same or equal quality now?


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## jaykim (Dec 3, 2019)

I am not a real expert, but I heard that it is the write cycles that wear the SSD out. Usually, the SSD has 3000 write cycles or more, and the theoretically, the number of read cycles is unlimited. That means if you write the whole SSD capcity once every day, it will reach the end of the life in 3000 days in theory, which would be 3000/365=8.219 years. But not many PC's are used that way. So the SSD will last longer. In theory, the photos will be exactly the same 6-7 yrs from now.

However, if the photos are important, the backup on another medium or HDD better be made, at least 2 copies.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

jaykim said:


> I am not a real expert, but I heard that it is the write cycles that wear the SSD out. Usually, the SSD has 3000 write cycles or more, and the theoretically, the number of read cycles is unlimited. That means if you write the whole SSD capcity once every day, it will reach the end of the life in 3000 days in theory, which would be 3000/365=8.219 years. But not many PC's are used that way. So the SSD will last longer. In theory, the photos will be exactly the same 6-7 yrs from now.
> 
> However, if the photos are important, the backup on another medium or HDD better be made, at least 2 copies.


Yeah I have them backed up on flash drives but will tell her they should be backed up on a external hard drive later.

If she refuses then " I told you so ". Strange how she will spend thousands of dollars on Persian rugs ( she is Iranian/Persian ) but when I mention a external hard drive " that costs too much money" . I had to twist her arm to buy the flash drives. She is not computer savvy and figures once you buy one data should not disappear or wear out. Oy Vey.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

IMO an SSD running through the SATA bus at 6GBPS is only marginally faster than a 7200 rpm hard drive with a large cache doing the same. For work on the go it is a lot safer from bumps and drops.
An SSD running as an *M.2 2280 *may be significantly faster. The specs say they are but I have no personal experience.

For a normal person not doing video editing the life of either should be about equal.

Like you I have never had a primary drive fail but I alway buy quality as I build my own.

Hope it helps.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Colbyt said:


> IMO an SSD running through the SATA bus at 6GBPS is only marginally faster than a 7200 rpm hard drive with a large cache doing the same. For work on the go it is a lot safer from bumps and drops.
> An SSD running as an *M.2 2280 *may be significantly faster. The specs say they are but I have no personal experience.
> 
> For a normal person not doing video editing the life of either should be about equal.
> ...


I kind of plan to buy a Dell even though they are more expensive as she had one for a long time and they are built tough and last as long as the Toshibas we have. Sadly Toshiba got out of that biz.

I would rather have a higher quality machine ( she understands quality vs price ) and take my chances with a SSD than go to a cheaper line with a regular drive. Even if I like conventional drives the choice to go with Dell may trump everything.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

yuri said:


> I am more concerned if I put new pics on a SSD will they look exactly the same 6-7 yrs from now.
> 
> The article posted by ZZZZ mentions Industrial SSDs. Are the new consumer grade ones the same or equal quality now?


It doesn't work like that. The picture quality doesn't degrade over time, if there's data loss on the drive the file will just be corrupted and not accessible. 

I really think you're over thinking this. Drive failures are rare, especially with solid state drives. If anything is "mission critical" it should be backed up in at least one other location, regardless of what you store it on. Things do happen, it's a fact of life. Put them on a drive of your choosing, then also back up anything you don't want to lose.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

The larger the SSD is, the more reliable it is.
The firmware is programmed to use the drive evenly and avoid writing/erasing the same spot too many times. The more memory cells there are relative to data, the longer it lasts.
It can also detect one part of the drive is failing and move the data off.
All drives have reserve, if you buy 1tb there's always a little extra unallocated to replace bad cells/sectors.

SSDs are far better than regular drives especially on laptops. They run cooler and are super-fast. A conventional drive is 100 to 150mb per sec for sequential, any decent SSD now is around 500Mb/sec. The difference in seek times could be even greater-> seek time is important when accessing small amounts of data scattered all over the drive.

Regardless of drive type, backup is a must.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Joeywhat said:


> It doesn't work like that. The picture quality doesn't degrade over time, if there's data loss on the drive the file will just be corrupted and not accessible.
> 
> I really think you're over thinking this. Drive failures are rare, especially with solid state drives. If anything is "mission critical" it should be backed up in at least one other location, regardless of what you store it on. Things do happen, it's a fact of life. Put them on a drive of your choosing, then also back up anything you don't want to lose.


I am a Power Engineer and worked with BAS, digital Building Automation Systems from Siemens and Johnson Controls and with VFDs so I like technology.

My Gal is a brilliant nurse but smart as a back of rocks when it comes to computers and I DO NOT want to be blamed for anything going wrong with her pics from all her worldwide travels.

She has a memory like a elephant and can remember the time of day, day and what the weather was like when we bought the last laptop so I try avoid any potential problems lest I get reminded of them for the rest of my life.


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

Go with the SSD and don't look back. Is this day and age I'm not sure how anyone could / would want to put up with how slow HDDs are. For years the HDD has been why a computer is always deemed slow for tasks. Program takes forever to launch? Probably not your processor or memory, watch the HDD activity. For desktops you could always start a RAID array and get increased speed that way and in some cases you could use 2.5" disks since the platter density was higher and translated to higher performance. HDDs for a primary disk are dead and serve as only backup solutions. 

As noted above don't defrag, let the system use TRIM functions to allocate the data properly. There is no performance increase from a defrag since there are no moving parts. To put this into a tool perspective imagine your toolbox as a drive and the data as your tools. So for a standard HDD example when you put your tools back you don't organize them and just put them in an open space in any drawer. Now find a pair of needle nose pliers, a 3/8" ratchet and your 10mm socket. Defrag would be like organizing them into proper drawers and order. You know what drawer to look in but you still have to find the tool (seek time from the HDD head).

Image search "sata ssd vs hdd speed crystaldisk" and tell me that you won't notice an increase based off of those specs. Boot time, all the way to usable desktop should be well under a minute. When freshly installed I think my speeds were around 20 seconds after the BIOS screen. That was off of SATA 3Gb/s, now there's SATA 6Gb/s and M2 which are even faster.


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

yuri said:


> I am a Power Engineer and worked with BAS, digital Building Automation Systems from Siemens and Johnson Controls and with VFDs so I like technology.
> 
> My Gal is a brilliant nurse but smart as a back of rocks when it comes to computers and I DO NOT want to be blamed for anything going wrong with her pics from all her worldwide travels.
> 
> She has a memory like a elephant and can remember the time of day, day and what the weather was like when we bought the last laptop so I try avoid any potential problems lest I get reminded of them for the rest of my life.


If you're trying to keep important pictures etc you need a backup solution yesterday. Any drive can fail at any time. MTBF means squat. I've had drives fail several times and sometimes you get a warning, sometimes you don't. Always have a backup. It's expensive (not like it used to be though) but the first time something happens you won't care what that expense was. I currently keep 3 copies of my data - 1 working copy (on the PC), 1 local backup and 1 offsite cloud backup. Worse case scenario we have a fire and I'm not home to grab the backup HDD but I can restore it from the cloud, that's why I have 3.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I can get a WD portable 1 TB external drive for $40-50 on sale so once I convince her it is a good investment I will probably get one.

For now I just wanted to know what others thought about SSD drives so it seems people are happy with them and have no horror stories so if a Dell goes on sale Boxing Day we will go with it and the SSD.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Ssd much faster In general. I’ve four in my desktop box for business replacing spinners and for five years with no issues. prices are dropping and they are getting much less costly. Trimming replaces defrag and helps with life and functionality.


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

yuri said:


> Yeah I have them backed up on flash drives but will tell her they should be backed up on a external hard drive later.


Flash drives are really not sufficient as backup. They are tiny and easy to lose. And think about it: let's say your house burns down (thankfully no one is hurt). Where are the flash drives? Probably in the house - with the computer. Everything in the house can be replaced except for those photos your wife loves.

Figure out a way to back everything up to a cloud backup service, or at least copy everything to a cloud drive like Google Drive, Dropbox, etc. These do cost money - usually an annual fee that varies by the amount of storage you need. But it's well worth the peace of mind.

Finally, re SSDs: the reason why they have become ubiquitous is precisely because they are so reliable. Of course they are faster and that's why people like them, but Dell and so on are not going to install unreliable drives and then have to deal with the yowling and fury when they fail early. I've been using SSDs for years with no more errors than I've encountered with conventional hard drives - which means almost none.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am just learning about them and yeah within a year probably everyone will be using them.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I can get 50 GB cloud for free from my Norton pkg and that should cover all her photos but will probably buy a external hard drive when they go on sale also.[/QUOTE]


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

No matter if you have a conventional hard disk drive or SSD, one should always have a backup system whether it be an external hard drive or cloud storage.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

yuri said:


> I kind of plan to buy a Dell even though they are more expensive as she had one for a long time and they are built tough and last as long as the Toshibas we have. Sadly Toshiba got out of that biz.
> 
> I would rather have a higher quality machine ( she understands quality vs price ) and take my chances with a SSD than go to a cheaper line with a regular drive. Even if I like conventional drives the choice to go with Dell may trump everything.



I don't think you should be afraid of a modern SSD. There is software (maybe included) that you can asses the health at any time you want. Mine is a year old and shows 100%.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I am not afraid of them now that I know more about them. Have not heard one negative comment about them.

We have a Sister forum for computers and I joined and nobody has any issue with them.









Tech Support Forum


A forum community dedicated to tech experts and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about articles, computer security, Mac, Microsoft, Linux, hardware, networking, gaming, reviews, accessories, and more!




www.techsupportforum.com





All good for now.


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## 007noob (Sep 17, 2018)

SSDs are now default drive type even in the lowest end computer nowadays I think (I may be wrong). Rotation drive can be bought for very cheap on eBay. But I don't think you wanna go in that direction - sounds like you want to just buy the laptop and be done with it.

All drives tend to degrade overtime. All the data is stored digitally. If there are any degradation (sectors going bad) in the drive, then the error correction codes (whole different topic) with take care of that and the user will not even notice it. So your pictures, files, programs, etc... will not be affected. Unless the drive is SO bad then you'll have other issues as well.

I've used the same SSD since 2014 (I think) - much longer than rotation drives.
Back up is a good idea.
My boot time (from power off) is about 20 - 25 seconds with SSD on a dell latitude. Now there are NVMe SSDs which are even faster.

The last time I bought a new consumer grade laptop was in 2011ish from Bestbuy and it was a Dell Inspiron with the rotation drive. No fault to Dell because it's my bad habit... I would rest my elbows on the palm rest (the flat surface next to the touchpad) on both sides. Well the HDD is right under it and one day I heard it go screeeech as I was getting up and put pressure on the HDD. Replaced the drive twice. No more consumer grade laptop for me. 

Anyways... just my 2cents.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah I just wanted to learn about them as they seem very popular now. My Acer PC which sits right beside me makes the old chuka chuka chewing grinding annoying sound as it searches back and forth and rotational drives have done that 4ever.

Desktop PCs seem to be staying with the rotational drives but within a year or two probably will all be SSD around the time I need a new one.

Probably a SSD is whisper quiet.


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm shocked so may people are saying that SSD are only a little faster. That's just crazy. I've been in computer networking for 30 years and the difference in SSD verses conventional drives is tremendous. I've just replaced 4 computers in the last month, 2 laptops and 2 desktops with SSD drives because the price has come down so much. All of them would take over 4 minutes to start up and stop processing and be ready to go with conventional drives. Switching them to SSD cut that same time to 30 seconds. As for data eventually being lost on an SSD drive? Come on. Your telling me that a circuit board with memory will degrade faster than a spinning platen? Anything with a mechanical motor has greater odds than something without one.


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## Friz Freleng (Oct 28, 2020)

Go with the SSD. Little if any more cost. Performance is noticeably better than a HDD spinner. I buy used/refurbished laptops from newggg.com. Currently have a Dell Precision M6800 workbook, Intel I7 3rd gen processor. 4 years old. Paid around $300 a little over a year ago.


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## Mr.Vile (Dec 19, 2018)

Hi yuri,
Sorry I'm late to the party but I agree with taylorjm. I've been in IT for 22+ years and the two components that fail most often in a computer are fans and spinning hard drives because they're the only things with moving parts. A SSD is the single best upgrade you can get. The read and write speeds far exceed any standard HDD. And the best defense against a hard drive failure is a backup. Without a doubt, I would go with a SSD but, no matter what you choose, backup your data on a regular basis.

-Mike


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## vandamme (Aug 19, 2016)

Get her a Chromebook, plus a portable HDD backup (or 2). That will be adequate for all her needs. And that "old" laptop: find a teenager to put Linux on it and get some extra mileage out of it.


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## JYL (Mar 1, 2020)

yuri said:


> Does the data degrade after a certain number of years/overwrites?
> 
> For example: If you store pics will they still look the same 6 years from now?


The content of an SSD does no change over time when they are good.

The main difference between the two technology:

SSD can be anywhere between 10 and a 1000 times faster (5000 and 10000 times faster exist but not in cheap laptop)
They can be dropped without risk of a head crash (Often a lot more reliable in Laptop)
They wear overtime. However, with the proper software, you can get an indication on how much life remain. EX: 5% Wear.
The not so much fun: The failure mode on SSD is more often "Catastrophic"'. The SSD itself often inform you a few time before a final crash. However, because of the "Wear Levelling mechanism", sometime files are corrupted and hard to recover. So, it is always better to have backup of important picture on "Flash Drive" or another computer.

So, I highly recommend trying to find the software that check the "Wear" level for your brand of SSD and replace the unit when you get close to 75% gone. (The laptop I am currently using is at 12% after 2.5 years). Note that every brand/model of SSD have an expected life that can be quite different from one to the others.


Hard Disk are still cheaper on a per Mega Bytes basis. They rarely corrupt file when they crash... However, they are not always accessible in several cases of crash. This is about the only advantages remaining in their camp.
Today, I will highly recommend an SSD drive unless you have Terabyte of picture/film. They make for a far more enjoyable computer to use under standard load.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Folks, take a look at my post here:








Why SSD Speeds matter


So I installed Win 10 on a Test Machine, and try to find out what exactly are the differences between a Hard Drive, aa SSD, and on one of those new Nvme Drives. The first one is a regular Hitachi 500 GB Hard Drive, made in 2012, but tested fine with no errors:




www.diychatroom.com





Cheers,


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