# Dishwasher Water Temp



## Janet (Jul 29, 2008)

I just purchased a Kenmore Dishwasher (Model 665 1359K600-made by Whirlpool) and contrary to the users manual, it does not heat the water to 140 F while in "Hi Temp Wash" mode. At best, the temperature only goes up to 118 F. The users manual recommends that water be 120F as it enters the washer--->mine is not and since I'm in a condo, I've no way of controlling that. 

I purposely purchased this machine because the old one didn't heat the water at all and my glasses were coming out cloudy. Though marginally better, I'm still not satisfied with the results from this one. I have a rinse aid, I've tried different detergents and adjusting the amounts. The water hardness is 11 grains.

Has anyone else had this experience? Does anyone have any suggestions (or better yet, some magic tricks) or is this a lost cause?

I've put a call out to Sears, but they can't come until next week.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

My Kenmore owner's manual suggested something I've not seen elsewhere. 
Before the cycle begins you run hot water from the nearest faucet so when the dishwasher fills at the beginning of a new cycle, the water is already hot.
But, our Kenmore doesn't have the problem.

We had the "cloudy problem" with our KitchenAid DW, and it did all the preheating and such. This symptom was not mentioned in the factory service manual that I bought for this machine. We never solved it. Maybe it was hard water, but our Kenmore is not doing this.

Maybe it was a problem with the water supply and it has been fixed. They started adding orthophosphate to the water to prevent pinhole leaks in copper pipes; maybe the symptom and the additive are related.

Your water company might be able to help you with this, free of charge, if you contact them. They have an interest in the purity of the water, so they might even analyze what this film on the glassware is, for you.


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## Janet (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks for the tip vis a vis running the water before starting the washer...unfortunately I've already tried that and it doesn't work. As for the glasses, it's not so much that they're cloudy, it's simply that they don't get altogether clean (I like to drink coffee out of clear mugs and the 'rings' left by the coffee don't come out) and I'm thinking that's because the water isn't getting hot enough. 

In part, what I'm wondering, is whether the service people can somehow tweak the machine to heat the the water more? Also, I'm wondering whether the machine is a lemon or whether it was never designed to work with water below 120F?


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Janet said:


> and the 'rings' left by the coffee don't come out)
> whether the service people can somehow tweak the machine to heat the the water more?


The rings have to be scrubbed out. I don't mind leaving them in the cups but my wife doesn't like them much.

The machine has to be designed to heat the water; maybe yours is, but the heater/thermostat is kaput.

Before spending $$$ I'd turn up the water heater to 130F if there are not people in your house especially vulnerable to burns. Exposure for 30 sec to liquid at 130F can burn anyone, according to the Shriners research.

If there are letters on your water heater thermostat instead of numbers, the people at the heater manu's 800 number can tell you what temperatures the letters represent.


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## CIT1336 (Aug 8, 2008)

Are you sure about the water supply temp? Hot water that you can just hold your hand under is about 125 degrees, water that is above 150 will cause cleaning problems such as the glasses that are cloudy and may leave food particles on them. If the glasses look clean when wet but cloudy dry that is called etching which is to much detergent and water to hot. If the water is to hot you can have a mixer installed at the supply line which will regulate the temp.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

CIT1336 said:


> Are you sure about the water supply temp? Hot water that you can just hold your hand under is about 125 degrees, water that is above 150 will cause cleaning problems such as the glasses that are cloudy and may leave food particles on them. If the glasses look clean when wet but cloudy dry that is called etching which is to much detergent and water to hot. If the water is to hot you can have a mixer installed at the supply line which will regulate the temp.


Can you post a link with more water temp effects info? DW cleaning problems seem to be common.

Is it 
too much detergent and water too hot
or 
too much detergent or water too hot
?


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## CIT1336 (Aug 8, 2008)

To hot water and to much detergent is the problem. If the temp is ok usually 1/2 to a full cup of detergent will do the job, remember dishwashers are indoor lawn sprinklers. Upper rack not cleaning can also be caused by loading, don't put glasses over prongs which allow them to hit together and may break only rest against the prongs to allow tops to drain. You can try washing without detergent if you think the water is to hot, then if it seems better add detergent a little each load till the problem returns.


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## Janet (Jul 29, 2008)

Yoyizit said:


> The machine has to be designed to heat the water; maybe yours is, but the heater/thermostat is kaput.
> 
> Do you suppose there is some sort of thermostat /sensor in the machine?
> 
> ...


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## Janet (Jul 29, 2008)

Well...to answer my own questions, Sears came out today to look at the dishwasher. Yes, there is a sensor in the motor which will trigger the heater to either turn on or off depending on the intake water temperature. No, the sensor cannot be adjusted to heat the water more. There would be no point replacing the sensor because it is not broken. I guess I'm scrubbing those rings out by hand. The end. Thanks to everyone for their input.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Dishwasher detergent formulations can contain a number of ingredients, from just one or two for the cheaper brands, to a half-dozen for the brand-named products like ElectraSol etc. Try changing brands and see what happens.

Some will have phosphates, some not; some have replaced phosphates with zeolites...and all these ingredients have an effect on cleaning _your_ dishes in _your_ machine in _your_ city. Also look into rinse aids, then report back.


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