# Civic TPMS after replacing tires



## sestivers (Aug 10, 2007)

You could have one or more dead/dying batteries in the TPMS, but it seems like an awful coincidence that their voltage was acceptable until you changed the tires. I am also unsure about what is user-resettable in the Honda TPMS system. Often you need a single-purpose tool to properly adjust those systems.

Personally I wouldn't worry about the stored age if it's about a year. The storage time is a lot easier on the rubber life than being installed and out in the elements.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

The way I understand the Honda systems, you can reset it through menu controls, but if it keeps faulting you need to diagnose it. I'm also a little suspicious that this snag just happens to coincide with a tire job. One thing you can do is make sure the tires are filled to the door spec and then see what happens. I had a Nissan that had a wheel sensor that was particularly sensitive; although admittedly this shouldn't be a ne condition. A flashing light usually indicates a system or communication fault - a steady light usually indicates low pressure.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I would take it back to the tire shop, talk to the manager, tell him or her what's going on, and ask them to plug in their diagnostic scanner and see what's going on. They may not have reinstalled all the sensors.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Some manufacturers recommend replacing sensors when replacing tires because their batteries get weak. I don’t know if Honda does. I would bet that they accidentally screwed up a sensor. A scanner should tell which wheel, then break it down and take a look. HotRod has good advice.


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

Honda Master Tech here,

So your vehicle uses a ABS based TPMS system, no specific pressure sensors in each wheel. A quick rundown of how it works is a properly inflated tire will increase the overall diameter(think about flat to fully inflated). When a tire loses pressure it's diameter decreases which decreases it's circumference, a smaller circumference will need to turn more to travel the same distance.

So I don't know what trim your civic is but for ease of explanation I believe the LX trim uses 195/65r15 tires. So the first number is the width of the tread in millimeters, the second number is the aspect ratio(height of the sidewall as a percentage of the width of the tread) so the sidewall height is 65% of the width of the tread, the third number is diameter of the wheel in inches.

So to get the overall diameter of the wheel/tire assembly it is the sidewall height doubled(top and bottom) converted to inches(1 inch = 25.4millimeters) plus the diameter of the wheel.

So 195*.65*2/25.4+15=24.98 diameter of the wheel/tire assembly. Going back to geometry to calculate circumference from diameter it is pi * diameter, so pi * 24.98 = 78.48 inches. So for each rotation of your tire it travels 78.48 inches. Lets say it loses pressure and it loses 1 inch of total diameter, pi * 23.98 = 75.34 inches. So for the smaller tire to travel the same distance as the properly inflated tire it would be 78.48/75.34=1.04 revolutions to travel the same distance.

This is all relative which is why the system will need periodic calibration as pressure's change with temperature or due to service(rotation, replacement, sometimes even alignment). There are also some more complex variables that go into the equation Honda does not give us to adjust for variances like turning or normal resonant vibrations also they do not give us what the threshold is for turning the light on because realistically you shouldn't ever need it as a tech.

When the system calibration is started it measure's the wheel speed at each wheel over a 20 mile period I believe and averages out what each wheel should be turning at and uses that as it's threshold to account for slightly variances at each wheel. Like say your system is calibrated and your front tire's are 75% worn and your rear tire's are 50% worn, you replace the 2 front tire's and do not calibrate the system it's going to throw a light because the overall diameter of the front tire's is now greater due to less wear.

The general rule of thumb to keep the system happy is 4 tires of the same brand/model with similar treadwear. You have to be careful because sometimes there are 2 models of tire's that are almost identical or they have different speed ratings. In extreme cases we have even seen things such as different production facilities or dates cause false low tire lights, like say 1 tire is made in the us and the other canada or as yours some are from the second week of 21 and the other is the 17th week of 21.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

LawrenceS said:


> So your vehicle uses a ABS based TPMS system, no specific pressure sensors in each wheel.


Well that changes things...


LawrenceS said:


> ...front tire's are 75% worn and your rear tire's are 50% worn, you replace the 2 front tire's and do not calibrate the system it's going to throw a light because the overall diameter of the front tire's is now greater due to less wear.


Sounds like someone didn't think that through...or didn't care that it would be throwing false low pressure indications if the tires don't match exactly.

Is there any way to recalibrate it for mismatched tires, or does the OP just have to put a piece of electrical tape over the light, like those of us who have TPMS sensors with dead batteries?


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

HotRodx10 said:


> Well that changes things...
> 
> Sounds like someone didn't think that through...or didn't care that it would be throwing false low pressure indications if the tires don't match exactly.
> 
> Is there any way to recalibrate it for mismatched tires, or does the OP just have to put a piece of electrical tape over the light, like those of us who have TPMS sensors with dead batteries?


There is some allowable variance as tire's wear or get replaced but it cannot be to big otherwise it would miss a tire actually going flat. There is only 1 calibration done through the controls on the steering wheel menu button>customized settings>TPMS calibration and it records wheel speed information at each wheel and creates a baseline for each one, which should technically compensate for some variations. I don't have a good answer for why we sometimes see mismatched tires causing problems aside from something with the tire's composition screws with the wheel speed and in turn the algorithm used to estimate inflation. It may also be possible it wasn't driven enough to properly calibrate after tire replacement and it just defaulted to the previous calibration. OP could try calibrating it and going for a longer drive.

Per the Service manual





The calibration begins when the calibration is selected through the MID (multi-information display). The calibration is completed after driving in an ideal driving condition (28 to 65 mph (45 to 105 km/h), driving steadily without much acceleration or deceleration) for about 18 minutes. Full functionality of the system cannot be performed properly if the calibration is not completed.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

I know nothing about your TPM system. However I know that my Ford has a method of resetting them that NEVER WORKS from the controls.
The only thing that works is the machine at the tire store. 

Go back to the store and have them get the machine. They can reprogram LT front wheel with RT rear wheel which will also make the alarm go off. 
With the machine they will be able to tell you if the batteries have gone bad, possible. Expect about 100 buck a tire for them to fix them. 
When my Ford went bonkers I decided I was a bright guy and could follow directions. NEVER WORKED for very long. Up to you how distracting is it to you?

I have one TPM that the battery is bad for almost a year. I just push the acknowledge button every time I start it. When I get new tires, soon, I will have them fix it. 

Another invasion of our government to make our lives better. NAAAA it is all about control. 
They have not given up on masks yet


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

SW Dweller said:


> I know nothing about your TPM system. However I know that my Ford has a method of resetting them that NEVER WORKS from the controls.
> The only thing that works is the machine at the tire store.
> 
> Go back to the store and have them get the machine. They can reprogram LT front wheel with RT rear wheel which will also make the alarm go off.
> ...


There are no sensors on this vehicle and no where can do anything different to recalibrate the system then what he can do himself and there are no software updates to change the algorithm for calculating pressure(14 crv's there is a TSB for false low pressure lights and an ABS software update)


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SW Dweller said:


> I have one TPM that the battery is bad for almost a year. I just push the acknowledge button every time I start it. When I get new tires, soon, I will have them fix it.


I have the same deal on my car - 3 out 4 sensors are no longer functioning. I bought a new set online for $60. My tire shop said I could bring them in anytime and they'd put them in for free, but I'll just wait until at least my next rotation & balance visit.


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## bucksone (Aug 7, 2007)

LawrenceS said:


> There are no sensors on this vehicle and no where can do anything different to recalibrate the system then what he can do himself and there are no software updates to change the algorithm for calculating pressure(14 crv's there is a TSB for false low pressure lights and an ABS software update)


An update. I reset the TPMS calibration, went out on the interstate, set the cruise at 65 mph, and stayed out of the left lane to avoid angry motorists. Twice it lasted about 10 minutes before the TPMS lights came back on. When I got back home I took a closer look at the tires. The sticker by the driver's door said the front and rear tires should be P195/65R15 89H. Three of the four new tires are labeled 195/65R15 91H. The left rear tire, however, is labeled 195/60R15 88H. Do you think the difference in this tire (60 versus 65) could be causing my TPMS problem?


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

bucksone said:


> An update. I reset the TPMS calibration, went out on the interstate, set the cruise at 65 mph, and stayed out of the left lane to avoid angry motorists. Twice it lasted about 10 minutes before the TPMS lights came back on. When I got back home I took a closer look at the tires. The sticker by the driver's door said the front and rear tires should be P195/65R15 89H. Three of the four new tires are labeled 195/65R15 91H. The left rear tire, however, is labeled 195/60R15 88H. Do you think the difference in this tire (60 versus 65) could be causing my TPMS problem?


 Yes


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

bucksone said:


> Do you think the difference in this tire (60 versus 65) could be causing my TPMS problem?


For sure, that's going to trigger it. The 195/60 is more than 3/4" smaller diameter (assuming it's the same model of tire).

Your tire shop put a wrong size tire on your car? If so, after getting them to straighten that out, I would find a different shop for my future tire needs.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Whoever put that 60 series tire on should be flogged.


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

HotRodx10 said:


> For sure, that's going to trigger it. The 195/60 is more than 3/4" smaller diameter (assuming it's the same model of tire).
> 
> Your tire shop put a wrong size tire on your car? If so, after getting them to straighten that out, I would find a different shop for my future tire needs.





huesmann said:


> Whoever put that 60 series tire on should be flogged.


I mean mistakes happen, like if it's a tire shop and the tech was pulling his own tires from the stock room, could have been 4 tire's in a row with the incorrect one somewhere in the middle and at a quick glance it was missed or if it wasn't a tire shop but the place ordered the tires and a wrong one was delivered and the tech was being rushed to get it done as fast as possible. It's hard to really say if it was negligence or an honest mistake without knowing the whole situation from an employee perspective.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

LawrenceS said:


> It's hard to really say if it was negligence or an honest mistake without knowing the whole situation from an employee perspective.


I would agree about giving them the benefit of the doubt, except for one thing:


bucksone said:


> About a half mile into my drive home the TPMS light on the dash starting flashing and a message came up saying to check the TPMS system. I immediately returned and an employee of the tire store apologized and said they had forgotten to reset the TPMS system. He reached in and used the buttons on the steering wheel to navigate to the TPMS and reset it.


When the OP returned to the store, the tech should have looked at the tires then.

A mistake like that, unnoticed, on the drive wheels could ruin a transmission, and be a safety hazard if it was on the front.


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

HotRodx10 said:


> I would agree about giving them the benefit of the doubt, except for one thing:
> 
> When the OP returned to the store, the tech should have looked at the tires then.
> 
> A mistake like that, unnoticed, on the drive wheels could ruin a transmission, and be a safety hazard if it was on the front.


Assuming he went somewhere with techs and service advisors, it sounds like the advisor reset the light not the tech. I see it all the time at my dealer, newer people don't know what vehicles require calibration so the customer comes back and the advisor just thinks they forgot to do the calibration so they do it themselves to expedite the process and keep the customer happy and not waiting for an extended period. Especially because there can be weird system changes in the same generation of vehicle, like 12-14 crv's are a generation, 12-13 have sensors, 14's don't and 15-16's are still basically the same vehicle but with a facelift and updated engine(2.4 4L cylinder with direct injection versus port injection 2.4L 4 cylinder). This compounds at an independent where they are servicing all makes and models and this day and age everyone is so time sensitive so service advisors over promise a completion time and the techs have to rush to try and meet the expectations. Plus the industry pay standards are terrible so there is a severe lack of competent techs and places end up hiring people with no experience or qualifications and they don't have someone senior to teach them or you get these discount tire shops that don't do anything but tires and due to discount pricing they can't afford quality people and just hire bottom of the barrel and show them how to change a tire.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I understand all that, Lawrence, but if they're too busy to check which tires they put on, especially when the customer comes back with a problem, I think they're rushing too much. Personally, I would find a different shop, one where they take the time to get things right, even if the service costs more. I want things done right, and checked to be sure they're done right. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, and everything I do that could be a safety issue for someone gets checked by at least one other person.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 31, 2021)

A year ago I had a maintenance shop do an oil change and tire rotation. A short time later I got a "R front tire pressure low" message. I checked with my pressure gauge and that tire was good but the right rear was low enough to trigger the message. I added air and the message went away but returned after a week or so. I went back to the shop and told them (same shop sold me the tires) and told them I needed a tire repair and asked if they reset the TPMS when they rotate tires because it hadn't been done on my car. The told me that "yes we do it every time and are sorry if it was somehow it was missed on my vehicle".
Fast forward to this week and same thing. Tires rotated recently and this time I get the "L Front tire pressure low" warning and guess what..... it is the left rear that is low. A minor thing but it could cause problems for some.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm dealing with TPMS at this very moment. I think its the sensor or sensors. They have never been replaced and my truck is an 09. My truck does not show which wheel it is. Just a indicator light for all four.
I have asked and received lots of information and suggestions regarding the issue. However I have never heard of a tire store putting mismatched tires on. Get this corrected and I would imagine your issue is resolved.

In my case Dodge still owes me two oil changes and 2 tire rotations. Since I have a couple other things I need addressed I'm just going to take it there and let them fix everything. It will not be cheap, but at least I should get everything corrected and know all the parts are from Dodge.


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## bucksone (Aug 7, 2007)

It's been a week now since I returned to the tire store, so I thought I would update and wrap this up. The tire store tech apologized for putting the wrong tire on. He said they scan the label on each tire when they take them from the stockroom. He said the incorrect tire must have had the wrong label on it. What also may have complicated things is they had to get the tires from another store in the chain. Either way I agree the tech should have checked to make sure I had the correct tires, especially when I returned initially when the TPMS lights first came on.

Since it's been a week now and the lights haven't come back on, I guess the problem is solved. Thanks for all the input and assistance.


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