# Carpet on stair treads only???



## cocobolo

OK, I have done a fair bit of looking for this, but with no luck so far...so I'm looking for help from you experienced carpet installers.

I have my doubts that this is a common practice...but what I would like to do is the following.

I have two sets of spiral stairs in my house, and I would like to cover _just the treads_ with carpet. I would prefer _not_ to wrap the carpet around the bullnose.

The risers will be covered with a finished piece of Virola plywood which has been stained and Varathaned.

The stairs do not yet have the bullnose added. I would like to be able to put carpet on the stairs, with underlay, and have the bullnose attached (screws and glue) so that it will be about flush with the carpet.

I am wide open to ideas as to what the best method(s) of doing this might be.

I understand that this will be a labor intensive project, but if you have looked at my building thread you will see that I am not easily deterred by a little work.

I can post pics of the stairs in question if you wish. 

Many thanks in advance.


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## rusty baker

Are you planning on doing everything yourself? The reason I asked, this would be easy for an experienced installer, in fact I have done a simlar job. But could be tricky for a DIYer. You absolutely need to know the finished height of the carpet and pad before you install the bullnose. Then the bullnose must be at that height above the tread and needs to be installed before carpet and pad.


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## Ironlight

Just to be clear, you want to install carpet only on the horizontal surfaces of the treads, and have the surface of the carpet level with the top of the bullnose edge on the front of each tread, correct?

When you say installing the bullnose flush with the carpet do you mean with the compressed carpet, when you are are stepping on it?

I think this sort of arrangement is going to set you up for some unusual wear situations. I think the bullnose will in fact wear more rapidly if the carpet is anything but installed on top of the tread that is the same level as the nose.

Is this to accomplish an aesthetic goal, or something else?


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Are you planning on doing everything yourself? The reason I asked, this would be easy for an experienced installer, in fact I have done a simlar job. But could be tricky for a DIYer. You absolutely need to know the finished height of the carpet and pad before you install the bullnose. Then the bullnose must be at that height above the tread and needs to be installed before carpet and pad.


Hi Rusty...yes, I will be doing everything myself. We live on a remote small island and it is all but impossible to get any help here. Even if we could, the cost would be prohibitive.
I am definitely NOT an experienced installer, but I have been a carpenter for better than 40 years.
If you would like to make some specific suggestions I will be sincerely grateful.
I have the carpet here, but haven't picked up the underlay yet...it will be that foam product about 3/8" thick. I'm guessing at that.


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> Just to be clear, you want to install carpet only on the horizontal surfaces of the treads, and have the surface of the carpet level with the top of the bullnose edge on the front of each tread, correct?
> 
> When you say installing the bullnose flush with the carpet do you mean with the compressed carpet, when you are are stepping on it?
> 
> I think this sort of arrangement is going to set you up for some unusual wear situations. I think the bullnose will in fact wear more rapidly if the carpet is anything but installed on top of the tread that is the same level as the nose.
> 
> Is this to accomplish an aesthetic goal, or something else?


And this is why I am asking for advice. To get this sort of help.

Yes, the carpet will be on the horizontal surface only.

I suppose the bullnose could be at the compressed level of the carpet, which, incidentally, is a Berber. I'm not sure how much that compresses, but I can check quickly.

I have a choice of woods which I can make the bullnose from, but I don't really see why the nosing would wear much given the relatively little use it will get.

I plan on finishing the bullnose with a polyurethane type finish and I could add the fine sand to the upper edge to give it some traction.

I did make a set of treads for another fellow on the island here (no carpet involved) to which I added the sand, and so far (about 8 years) it is in great shape.

I guess you could say it is for aesthetic purposes. I'm also hoping it will be practical.


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## rusty baker

The bullnose will wear rapidly because that part of the step gets the most foot traffic. Most people don't realize that. I would hope that these stairs don't get a lot of heavy traffic.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> The bullnose will wear rapidly because that part of the step gets the most foot traffic. Most people don't realize that. I would hope that these stairs don't get a lot of heavy traffic.


There are only two of us here, and we aren't inclined to race up and down the stairs, so definitely no heavy traffic.

The tread depth where we would walk is about 11".

Surely, if I use a hardwood, would that not help keep the wear down to almost nothing?

How would you go about putting this together Rusty?


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## rusty baker

I assume there are sides on the treads. When you place the bullnose on the front the same height as the carpet and pad, you will have what looks like a tray or a very mini room. Treat the 4 sides like you would walls and put tack strip on all four sides. Pad the center. Rub the carpet down on the front strip, next to the nose and push back to stretch the carpet with a kicker, do the same towards the sides. Then, just trim and tuck in like with a wall. If there are no sides on the steps, you roll the carpet under evenly on both sides. I hope this helps.


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## cocobolo

Rusty...many thanks for the help. Sorry for the delay in replying, I had to take the wife over to town today to get on a ferry to Vancouver for the grandson's 4th birthday. You know what my life would be like if I didn't get her there in time for that!

I'm going to put up a few pics so you can see exactly what I have here.

The first one is of the top stairs which go right to the roof. They are not often used except to clear debris off the roof, or to do something to the solar panels if necessary. The wife does not go up there at all.

The second pic is looking at the treads from the side. As you can see, the inner end of the radius is open, but I can certainly cover them with something if you think it might help. I will be enclosing the ends in some fashion in any event, just haven't decided how.


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## cocobolo

The bottom treads are quite a bit bigger, about 44" long or thereabouts, except for the lowest treads which you can see in the pics.

The very bottom tread I added a round chunk after the fact to try and finish it off somewhat. Once it is covered it should look OK....I hope.

The top step leads to the hallway upstairs which is done in laminate. I know, I know, you don't have to tell me. I won't make that mistake again.

But the nose piece I made up for that transition is working well. 

The others I think will have a more rounded appearance.

My friend Jim suggested that perhaps I should add something to the inside of the treads to close them off a little. What would you think of that idea.

I'm quite happy to close them off or leave them open, so your professional advice is what I will follow here.

Thanks again.


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## cocobolo

...if you were wondering why there are white paint lines on the front of the treads, it was to make them easier to see when we were going downstairs if it was a bit dull inside. It worked.


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## Ironlight

If the carpet is berber then I think the issue that I mentioned might not come to pass, particularly if you made the carpet just a tad higher than the edge of the bullnose.

What I'm more concerned about now is safety. I think having steps with different surfaces and things you can catch your feet and misstep on opens you up to a bit more risk of falling at some point. Maybe not an issue now but as you get older, you never know. The carpet will be catchy and the bullnose will be slick. I would if I were doing this make the bullnose more of an accent on the front of the step rather than a surface that your foot comes in much contact with.

I mention this because my BIL has a cottage that has stairs that have engineered flooring on them and some idiot put thin moulding on the front of the treads to hide the joint between tread and riser and you take your life into your hands every time you go up and down them simply because they are different than what your body expects steps to "feel" like.


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> Maybe not an issue now but as you get older, you never know. The carpet will be catchy and the bullnose will be slick. I would if I were doing this make the bullnose more of an accent on the front of the step rather than a surface that your foot comes in much contact with.
> 
> I mention this because my BIL has a cottage that has stairs that have engineered flooring on them and some idiot put thin moulding on the front of the treads to hide the joint between tread and riser and you take your life into your hands every time you go up and down them simply because they are different than what your body expects steps to "feel" like.


Your bro-in-laws steps sound something like what a friend of ours has in his log home up on Vancouver Island.

Beautiful stairs...all nicely varnished...they look great! But slippery as h*ll!

I plan on using the fine sand in the finish coats on the bullnosing which definitely removes that slippery feel.

As for getting older...we're both 69 already...so however many years we have left isn't going to make much difference in how we traverse stairs.

I think you know that I have been a carpenter since the time that Noah built the ark. I like to tell folks that I actually built the ark, Noah was just my helper...but he had a better PR man and got all the credit.

One other thing. Right from my early carpentry days I have always been the guy to offer to do the stairs on every job. Most carpenters hate to do stairs. I also go out of my way to make the rise low, and the tread long. Much easier to walk up and down. While that may make the total run of the stairs longer, it is also a lot safer.


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## Ironlight

But the ark had ramps!

Well OK, my concerns are allayed. I was not so much concerned about slipping on the bullnose itself as just the issue of having multiple types of surfaces on the stair. Heard too many horror stories about people getting very badly hurt falling down a simple run of steps.


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## BigJim

Keith, on the open side of your stairs are you going to install stair brackets? I know they are high but as good as you are with wood you can make some for little to nothing. Here is a link to some fancy ones. 
http://www.crownmoldings.net/ccp0-catshow/stair-brackets.html

If you didn't want to make the carpet an insert you could install brackets with the top edge above the treads and butt the carpet into them. I am still thinking.


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> But the ark had ramps!
> 
> Well OK, my concerns are allayed. I was not so much concerned about slipping on the bullnose itself as just the issue of having multiple types of surfaces on the stair. Heard too many horror stories about people getting very badly hurt falling down a simple run of steps.


Hahahaha! Sorry, I forgot about the ramps! Shame on me.

Great to see someone with a sense of humour! (sorry about all the Canadian spellings here...)

You are right about accidents on stairs. It doesn't seem to matter about the simplicity of a set of stairs or the surfaces, there are still thousands of accidents every year.

Vicky Scott, a neighbour (Canadian spelling again) across the bay from us has her doctorate in stairs and injuries related thereto of all things. She is from the University of Victoria, and we have had numerous discussions about stairs in the past. The last time was when my wife took a tumble down the stairs in the cabin here...she was going down in the dark of all the silly things to do.

I have always said that the worst problem with stairs is the too short run of the treads. If you make a tread _at least _11" wide, you have gone a long way towards eliminating the main cause of falling.

I'm trying to remember what Vicky said about the ratio of going up and going down accidents was, but the old timers' is preventing me from coming up with that number. I do recall it being over 90% when going _down_ the stairs.


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## cocobolo

jiju1943 said:


> Keith, on the open side of your stairs are you going to install stair brackets? I know they are high but as good as you are with wood you can make some for little to nothing. Here is a link to some fancy ones.
> http://www.crownmoldings.net/ccp0-catshow/stair-brackets.html
> 
> If you didn't want to make the carpet an insert you could install brackets with the top edge above the treads and butt the carpet into them. I am still thinking.


Wow! Your stair expertise is showing here Jim.

I have never seen those before. There's my one thing learned for the day...thank you!

On the inside of the upper stairs, which is to say the open side, the depth of the tread is about 8 1/2", and against the wall about 16". So it's a very deep tread, and therefore easy to walk down.

I would think those stair brackets are more in keeping with the old style traditional stairs which you used to build Jim. My place is more what is known as the "West Coast" style...must be because we are on the west coast!

Rusty has mentioned just tucking the carpet under on the open side, and I think that is probably the best idea.

If I put a tack strip on the inner edge of the tread (as well as the front and back) that would give a place to tuck the carpet without it being too high.

I guess I could staple that down as well.

Rusty...if you're still reading this could you let me know if it should be stapled on the outside edge and possibly even across the front edge?


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## cocobolo

Here's a couple of shots showing the depth of the tread on the upper and lower stairs. Plus one of the stair posts which are currently being glued up for the bottom stairs.


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## rusty baker

The tack strip should hold it without staples.


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## cocobolo

Thanks Rusty.


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## BigJim

Keith, I wasn't thinking when linking the stair brackets, I was thinking more in line that you could make your own style brackets that would be line with the style your home is, but come to think of it I never did install any brackets on all the radius stairs I built.


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## cocobolo

Well Jim...now that I have the underlay here, I think I'm going to give Rusty's method a go. I will try one on the top stairs so it won't matter if I make a bit of a mess out of it.

I didn't get any of the bullnose pieces made up yet as it has been raining all day here, and I have to do the cutting and planing outside. I might try a couple of different profiles to see which one feels best on the foot.

The one I did at the transition to the laminate upstairs has been really good so far.


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## fixrite

keith if you use tack strips all the way around and use staples on your fold over at the outer edge you should be fine. I tend to use a few staples on the front of the stair to give it a little more holding power for when I kick it onto the tack strip at the back. I would also suggest if you are doing this yourself for the first time using a kicker I might want to put something in front of my riser to protect it in case you slip with the carpet kicker. Also when you are using your kicker turn the dial on top only enough to catch the carpet and not the underpad. Hope these little tips help. BTW I was an installer years ago.


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## rusty baker

The problem with using staples on the folded under edges is that it will dimple. If it is a thick carpet, it will show and look terrible.


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## fixrite

I would agree, but since Keith said he was using a berber I was not concerned. Besides when stapling any carpet one always tries to go between the tuffs of the carpet. In the olden days we would turn and tack it with blue tacks. But that was years ago.


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## rusty baker

fixrite said:


> I would agree, but since Keith said he was using a berber I was not concerned. Besides when stapling any carpet one always tries to go between the tuffs of the carpet. In the olden days we would turn and tack it with blue tacks. But that was years ago.


 Used many boxes of blue tacks. Back in the day of toilet tissue under seams and baby powder on skimless pad. Wow, I feel old. :laughing:


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## fixrite

This might be a situation where turning and tacking might be a good solution to these stairs. That is if the carpet is thick enough not to show the backing when turned.


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## fixrite

I think I still have my thimbles for sewing the seams. A LONG time ago , yes we are old, but if I don't look in the mirror, I can pretend I am still 30 something.


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## rusty baker

fixrite said:


> I think I still have my thimbles for sewing the seams. A LONG time ago , yes we are old, but if I don't look in the mirror, I can pretend I am still 30 something.


 My grandchildren and one great grandaughter won't let me forget how old I am.


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## cocobolo

Good to see you guys having fun this morning.

OK, I just measured the carpet thickness and it is 1 cm thick and 5 mm when I squash it, so it's pretty skinny.

The pad is an 8 mm "Trusted Cross-Linked Virgin Polyethylene Foam." For Pete's sake, couldn't they come up with a longer name?

So with the carpet squashed and 8mm of pad, that's 13 mm, or just a trace over 1/2" for those of us who still speak English.

I have never used a kicker before, so this will be another first. I have watched it being done of course, but watching and doing are two entirely different things. I did know about keeping the pins short enough to miss the pad.

As far as the short edges go on the inside open ends. I think I will continue the bullnose there as well. That should kill two birds with one stone as it were. I can make the front corner look good and provide the height to tuck the carpet in without needing to fold it. Does that sound OK?

Did I miss anything? Oh yes, grand kids...I have three.


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## fixrite

I guess the only other thing I could mention is too keep pressure on the top of the kicker while kicking, if you fail to do this, then you could end up tearing off the tuffs from the carpet, I do recall many moons ago during my apprentice years I did just that, and the boss was not very happy. Lucky for me it was in a closet.


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## rusty baker

You can probably just push the carpet tight with the kicker instead of kicking it. Less chance of tearing it and/or banging into the riser. Easier on a newbie's knee too.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> I guess the only other thing I could mention is too keep pressure on the top of the kicker while kicking, if you fail to do this, then you could end up tearing off the tufts from the carpet, I do recall many moons ago during my apprentice years I did just that, and the boss was not very happy. Lucky for me it was in a closet.


Yes of course. As you might imagine I have been watching all sorts of videos about this, and that is one thing they do stress.

Just wait 'til I get to the bedroom...500 square feet of totally weird shaped carpet to go down. I figured a little practice on the stairs couldn't hurt.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> You can probably just push the carpet tight with the kicker instead of kicking it. Less chance of tearing it and/or banging into the riser. Easier on a newbie's knee too.


Good point Rusty. My knees are full of arthritis already, they don't need any more help!

I did see a couple of videos of stair installations. Oddly enough one fellow kicked it pretty hard, and the other pushed it as you suggested. It doesn't seem to matter what you look for regarding carpet installs, there always seems to be two or three different opinions on what or how to do something.


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## fixrite

if you were installing your stairs all in one piece with a heavy carpet then kicking hard in necessary, but for your application of single treads only, then pushing would be sufficient as Rusty pointed out. Oh and don't forget new blades in knife....lol


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## cocobolo

I think I must have been reading your mail fixrite! All the tools I have for the install are brand new. Even bought a proper carpet knife, along with the kicker, seaming iron, loop pile cutter and carpet seam roller.

The only tool I didn't buy is the edge trimmer. For just one room $110 + tax seemed a bit much. If I can't figure out how to cut the edges straight enough then I guess I will need to break down and buy one. I was thinking maybe just lay a straightedge hard up against the wall and cut on top of that with the knife.


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## fixrite

yikes.....that is a lot of money for only one house, if I had known I would of let you use mine, I also have an edge trimmer. If you want you can use my tools and return the others for a refund. I am retired (sort of and don't use them much anymore only for the odd job here and there for friends and family. I live mid island and would be fine with that.


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## BigJim

fixrite said:


> yikes.....that is a lot of money for only one house, if I had known I would of let you use mine, I also have an edge trimmer. If you want you can use my tools and return the others for a refund. I am retired (sort of and don't use them much anymore only for the odd job here and there for friends and family. I live mid island and would be fine with that.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> yikes.....that is a lot of money for only one house, if I had known I would of let you use mine, I also have an edge trimmer. If you want you can use my tools and return the others for a refund. I am retired (sort of and don't use them much anymore only for the odd job here and there for friends and family. I live mid island and would be fine with that.


That's a very generous offer, and I may take you up on the edge trimmer. The other tools I will keep...it's an illness that us tool junkies have. Who knows, when word gets out that I have all these shiny new tools, I may get to use them again here on the island.


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## cocobolo

I've got another quick question about underlay...it's in the bedroom, not on the stairs.

I have read that the underlay and carpet should not run in the same direction, but should be 90º to each other. 

Is that correct and why might that be so?

Would it be possible - or should I say acceptable - to have the underlay running at about 30º away from the carpet?

The reason I ask is because two adjoining walls in the bedroom are about 30º away from 90º, and I would like to run the underlay up against that wall first.


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## fixrite

the only thing about the underlay is that you should stager your seams and not have them line up with your carpet seams.


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## fixrite

what kind of carpet are you going to be installing? Will you be doing any seaming (ironing)?


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## rusty baker

fixrite said:


> the only thing about the underlay is that you should stager your seams and not have them line up with your carpet seams.


 Exactly right.


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## cocobolo

Once again, thanks you guys.

If I run the underlay against the end wall, it would merely cross the carpet joins. It wouldn't be in line at all.

And yes I will be needing two seams about 14' long and two short ones about 3' long. I have an iron for that.

It's a berber carpet, and I'm also aware that I will need the lay of the carpet to run in the same direction. This is what is causing me to have lots of waste carpet...which is going on the stairs.

One more...how far from the walls do I nail the tackless? Most seem to say the width of a strip, another says the thickness of the carpet. Is there any preference?


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## rusty baker

Thickness of the carpet.


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## fixrite

Just what Rusty said. Also when working with Berber make sure you use a new blade in your knife, snags in Berber will tend to run away and then you have challenges. I tend to cut all my edges for my seams as this will give you the best end result.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Just what Rusty said. Also when working with Berber make sure you use a new blade in your knife, snags in Berber will tend to run away and then you have challenges. I tend to cut all my edges for my seams as this will give you the best end result.


It seems to me that I have read just exactly that.

I did find some decent videos, and the pro installer used his straightedge to make one edge cut. Then he overlapped that over the next edge and ran the loop pile cutter against his straight cut. That way he had matching cuts and then went on to do the seaming.

I have one end of the bedroom cleared out so I will be getting to nail down the tackless shortly and then the real fun will begin.

I'm not sure which pic this is, but I'm hoping it shows the 120º corner where I will be starting.


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## cocobolo

OK, that's what I was hoping for. I'm going to put the underlay against that wall, and then the carpet will run square off the back wall. I believe that should be OK.


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## fixrite

That will work out just fine. Once you have them cut just so, go ahead and seam them and let it cool. Once that has happened, go ahead and kick the carpet into place.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> That will work out just fine. Once you have them cut just so, go ahead and seam them and let it cool. Once that has happened, go ahead and kick the carpet into place.


You must have been watching the same videos as me!!! :laughing:

And I will be using a 50 pound box of tile as my weight to stick the carpet together. One guy just used a small tool box which didn't look like it weighed more than about 15 pounds.


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## fixrite

good thing you are using a box of tiles, sometimes there can be a tendency for the colour from a tool box to transfer to the carpet, that is why I only use grey tool boxes for flooring tools, then I put that on as I seam. No Keith I have not watched any videos on installation of carpet, when I was learning they were not available.


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## fixrite

Keith, when you have some time, check out this link, it is right up your alley http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/newpage1


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> good thing you are using a box of tiles, sometimes there can be a tendency for the colour from a tool box to transfer to the carpet, that is why I only use grey tool boxes for flooring tools, then I put that on as I seam. No Keith I have not watched any videos on installation of carpet, when I was learning they were not available.


I was kidding when I said that...I knew your experience pre-dated the internet! :whistling2:


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## fixrite

Sorry I tried to import a pic and messed up.


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## fixrite

I just finished my entry way, here is a pic.







Hope I did this right.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> I just finished my entry way, here is a pic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope I did this right.


Still not having any luck with your photo...?

Make sure your pic is on your hard drive, re-size it, save as "...", when you go to post click on "manage attachments" below your text box, click on "browse" in the window, click on your pic, open it, upload it - and let it finish uploading before you close that window, close and post.

Send me a pm if it still doesn't work.


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## fixrite

ok,here we go again, one last try. This is my entryway. Just need to grout it,


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## cocobolo

OK, it worked.

Now, I'm curious about that compass like design in the middle...?


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## fixrite

you are correct, it is a compass usually found on maps. What would you like to know about it?


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> you are correct, it is a compass usually found on maps. What would you like to know about it?


It looks like it is made from tile. Did you cut that out yourself, or can you buy such a thing.

Whichever it was, it's pretty neat. :thumbsup:


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## fixrite

Yes it is made from tile, and I designed it and cut it out and installed it myself. ( no bragging).


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## fixrite

it is 7 1/2 feet long and 3 feet wide and yes it does point to magnetic north as well. Just a little picky I am.


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## cocobolo

Well, now I'm really impressed. :thumbup:

I will face the east and bow three times in your honour!


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## fixrite

No big deal. I just finished my living room floor, it's scandinavian maple. Here is a pic, see what happens when you show me how to do something:whistling2:


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## cocobolo

Now THAT I REALLY like! :thumbup:


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## fixrite

I put that in my living room great room combo as well as my dinning room. I liked it so much I put 2 rows on each side in the hallway, and tiled the centre. I will be grouting that along with the entryway.


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## cocobolo

I think perhaps the reason I like that so much is the colour just seems to be "right". :thumbsup:

Too many of the flooring woods, either real or artificial, don't show the wood colour as it should be.


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## fixrite

I like to say it shows the life the wood once had and now we get to share it.


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## fixrite

most of the flooring out there is similar to the cabinets, blah bland, cheap artificial,or looks good but would never last long. Click flooring will never make its way into this house.:no:


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## cocobolo

I took a shot at laying the first piece of underlay this afternoon...started in that corner with the 120º angle.


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## cocobolo

At the other end of that wall is the second closet end and the stove pipe which comes right through the floor.


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## cocobolo

A view from the window end.


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## cocobolo

I suppose I should have asked about this first...but sometimes I have been known to close the barn door after the horse has bolted.

Is there any proper way to lay the carpet around this stove pipe?

What you are looking at is slate tile, which is about 3" wide, and then I nailed some tackless around the outside of that. 

Is that going to work or should I have done something different...it's not too late to change it if necessary.


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## rusty baker

That is going to be tough to lay out and stretch.


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## cocobolo

I sure can't argue with you there Rusty, it was bad enough to cut the underlay to fit reasonably well.

I think I am going to make up a cardboard template for that end where the stove pipe is.


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## rusty baker

Can you take the stovepipe down while you install that area? It would be easier that way.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Can you take the stovepipe down while you install that area? It would be easier that way.


Now there's an idea...I think that might be possible.

The two top sections are collapsible, and the second section goes just below the floor. Which means it might work OK. 

I can always use the other wood stove to keep the place warm while this one is out of commission.


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## rusty baker

You can kick it in like a regular room. Rub it down on the strip and carefully cut the center. Much easier than going around it and seaming it back together.


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## cocobolo

Roger that Rusty. I just got the second row of underlay in place...it goes around one of the support posts. I will have to cut the underlay back somewhat around that post in order to nail some tackless in place.

The same will apply at that big opening in the floor which I have also just arrived at.


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## cocobolo

The first row of carpet just misses that post, so that's one thing I won't need to deal with..at least for now.


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## fixrite

are you loose laying the underpad?, I can't seem to see any staples in it.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> are you loose laying the underpad?, I can't seem to see any staples in it.


Yes, at least for now.

The destructions with the underpad say to use duct tape to attach it to the tackless and to the adjoining pads.

I can certainly whack a few staples in if you think it's better.

They do say you can use staples, but taping is apparently preferred.

While we are on their recommendations, they also say to use the lowest heat setting for the iron when seaming, as high temps can damage the eco-foam.


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## fixrite

I would staple the underpaid, it deters it from moving in the future. In regards to the temp setting you must make sure it melts the glue on the ironing tape or it will not adhere well to your carpet. If you must use a low setting that will not damage the underpaid, you may need to iron the carpet with something between it and the pad or in another room where you do not have pad yet. Generally that is not always a workable solution. You can do a test on a piece of ironing tape to see if it will work, just use it on an old piece of carpet or on a scrap piece, then you will know for sure.


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## fixrite

Also try and keep some ventilation going as it can get a little smokey and stinks as well.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Also try and keep some ventilation going as it can get a little smokey and stinks as well.


The Eco-foam gang suggests a low temperature heat bond tape.

So what I have is Roberts 50-240xt tape, which says lower odor and smoke and lower melt point.

You don't suppose they would kid me now, do you?

What could I use between the pad and carpet to keep the pad cool? A piece of sheet metal wouldn't work because it would store the heat and just get hotter. Nothing comes to mind right off hand that I might have here.


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## fixrite

a piece of paneling cut down to a manageable size would work. The tape is alright by the way.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> a piece of paneling cut down to a manageable size would work. The tape is alright by the way.


....aaaah, of course. That I should have on hand. Thanks.


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## fixrite

Glad to be of help. By the way, I think the work you have been doing is fantastic, awesome and I never get tired of looking at your pics. You do some great great work sir. P.S. Sand the edges of the plywood so it doesn't get caught on your pad or carpet. I would use 3 or 4 ft pieces so it would be easier to manage.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Glad to be of help. By the way, I think the work you have been doing is fantastic, awesome and I never get tired of looking at your pics. You do some great great work sir. P.S. Sand the edges of the plywood so it doesn't get caught on your pad or carpet. I would use 3 or 4 ft pieces so it would be easier to manage.


Thanks again. I will look in the morning and see what's here. Pretty sure I have some strips about that long and I'll make sure they get well sanded.


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## cocobolo

HEEEEEEELP!!!!

I just cut a big triangle off my first piece of carpet - 58" wide at the base - which I thought should have left 7' 2'' left. 

When I looked at the bottom of the triangle, I was positive it wasn't that long.

My magic tape measure says there is 6' 7 3/4" left...in other words, the roll isn't anywhere near 12' wide. Fortunately, it isn't the triangle that I need, so the piece I cut is fine - except that it is 7" less in overall width than I expected.

I checked the other two rolls, and they are all 11' 4 7/8" wide. :furious:

Is this normal? I thought it should be 12' wide, isn't that a standard width?

Now I am 21" less in width than I thought I would have for the three rolls all together. That's a problem. 

The room is 35' long at the extremities. Three rolls at 12' would have made 36', leaving just enough to cover the room after trimming the edges.


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## rusty baker

Carpet can usually vary from 11'10" to 12'2". I have never seen any as narrow s what you got.


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## fixrite

I agree with Rusty on the sizing for sure. I would also be tempted to check my bill to see just how much I was charged for as well. Seems like you may have paid for material you did not receive.


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## cocobolo

Thanks Rusty, that's sort of what I expected.

I called the House of Pot and talked to someone in flooring, but it seems that individual is less than knowledgeable when it comes to carpet.

The fellow that sold us this narrow roll is due back shortly and I have asked for him to call me back. He has 12 years in the carpet biz, so hopefully he will know something.

Frankly, I wouldn't give a damn if the room was only 33' long, then it would work fine. But it isn't and this has now introduced another problem.

When I cut that triangle off, I was working under the assumption (I know, I know...) that the roll was 12' wide. The long side of the triangle measures 15' 2" against the wall. So, on the back of the carpet, I measured up 15' 2'' on the diagonal and marked it. Then I shifted the cut line out an extra 4" for trimming allowance. However, since the carpet is 7" too narrow, where I marked the cut line is actually 3" too short.

I know I can trim an extra 3" off the bottom in a wedge shape to account for that, but it still leaves me short.

I will certainly let you know how this plays out.


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## fixrite

Was this carpet by chance a lot of roll ends that were discounted. It could be that the product was damaged and trimmed down.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> I agree with Rusty on the sizing for sure. I would also be tempted to check my bill to see just how much I was charged for as well. Seems like you may have paid for material you did not receive.


Way ahead of you Mr. Fix...4.34 square yards that we didn't receive. Waiting for a call back...

It's not the money that ticks me off...it's the width...

Oh, and just in case, I also checked the width of the eco-foam. Dead on 6' as it is supposed to be.

So now I'm in a holding pattern until we can figure this thing out.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Was this carpet by chance a lot of roll ends that were discounted. It could be that the product was damaged and trimmed down.


If it was they sure didn't bother to tell us. We paid the full price.

In fact, they cut the three pieces off a brand new roll...total length 67'.

What would I look for to see if it was cut down in any way?


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## fixrite

did they also assure you that all 3 rolls are from the same dye lot, just in case....


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## fixrite

usually one side of the carpet has some of the backing showing, not always but most times it does. So it should look like one side is missing some of the carpet off of the backing. Hope I described that correctly for you.


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## fixrite

If you know the brand name of the carpet, then I would be tempted to see if I can find the manufacturer and ask them what widths the carpet is.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Was this carpet by chance a lot of roll ends that were discounted. It could be that the product was damaged and trimmed down.


You may have hit on something here...the two edges are not the same. One edge looks like it is heat sealed somehow, and the other edge is most definitely cut...no doubt about it.

Here's a few pics. These are of what appears to be a heat sealed edge.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> did they also assure you that all 3 rolls are from the same dye lot, just in case....


I watched them cut it off the same roll myself...so yes.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> usually one side of the carpet has some of the backing showing, not always but most times it does. So it should look like one side is missing some of the carpet off of the backing. Hope I described that correctly for you.


You described it perfectly, here's pics of the cut edge.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> If you know the brand name of the carpet, then I would be tempted to see if I can find the manufacturer and ask them what widths the carpet is.


I don't know who this would be, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I will find out.

If, as you suggest, the carpet was cut due to some sort of damage, then surely HD should have known about that, would they not?

The first lemonhead at HD that I spoke with said that carpet comes in 12' 13' and 15' widths, but since their machine only manages 12' that's all they carry. Still waiting for a call back.


----------



## cocobolo

For what it's worth, just a little research has revealed that standard widths are 12', 13' 6" (not 13') and 15'.

I guess two out of three ain't bad. Still waiting... ... ... ...


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## rusty baker

Berber carpet like that is almost always 12'2" wide, or close to it. It should also have the selvege edge on both sides. Maybe they cut it down to fit in their machine.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Berber carpet like that is almost always 12'2" wide, or close to it. It should also have the selvege edge on both sides. Maybe they cut it down to fit in their machine.


You have no idea how glad I am you said that Rusty.

The machine at HD will take at least 12' 2", as I am told that many of the carpets come in that width.

When I watched them using the machine to take the rolls off, I did note that it was considerably wider than the carpet, although it didn't mean anything at the time.

One of the rolls didn't come off very square, which the salesman pointed out, and the roll has a large indent in one end.

Next time I go there - which might be sooner rather than later - I will look and see if the berber has two heat sealed edges or not. And I will be taking my tape measure with me!

So, now it appears that they may have cut 9" off the width of the roll...?


----------



## rusty baker

cocobolo said:


> So, now it appears that they may have cut 9" off the width of the roll...?


 Don't know why they would unless it was damaged.


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## fixrite

By the way if you are expecting the pieces that have been cut for you to have a square edge on them ...don't. If you take one end of the carpet fold it over itself and then line up the edges. Measure back from the front edge on both sides and you should be able to determine if it is square. Not sure if that makes easy sense, hope it does though.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Don't know why they would unless it was damaged.


Using your logic of 12' 2" for a standard berber width, there is only 11' 5" left, which is 9" off.

As you say "unless it was damaged".

This is exactly the way the roll came from the factory, I watched them bring it around to the machine from their warehouse and load it on the machine. I don't think that HD cut this roll any narrower.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> By the way if you are expecting the pieces that have been cut for you to have a square edge on them ...don't. If you take one end of the carpet fold it over itself and then line up the edges. Measure back from the front edge on both sides and you should be able to determine if it is square. Not sure if that makes easy sense, hope it does though.


Makes perfect sense.

No, I definitely didn't think they would be square.

While I was watching them cut the rolls - which in itself was quite interesting - it did occur to me that the one roll which didn't load square would likely NOT be cut square. The machine cuts the whole 12' width in about 2 seconds, maybe even less.


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## cocobolo

OK, I can't wait forever to get this little annoyance resolved, so I'm going ahead anyway with the installation.

I'll show you what I have got done since the last post.

I made a chalk line on the floor (underlay actually) at the 12' mark, anticipating that this is where the edge of the piece would reach, or close to it.

As you can very clearly see, the carpet is some 8 1/4" short of the mark.


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## cocobolo

Please note in the above pic that there is a huge amount of extra carpet in the corner, which tapers off to nearly nothing at the other end.


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## cocobolo

The hole is cut here, close to the tile ring.


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## cocobolo

And the stove pipe is back in place.

Good thing you suggested that Rusty, now I know I need to clean the stove pipe!


----------



## cocobolo

Well, the sun has set, Venus is about 8º above the horizon, it has been a frustrating day, and I'm going to cook some grub. Back a little later to let you know of the next little problem which has reared it's ugly head.


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## cocobolo

OK, next problem.

Because the carpet is too narrow, it will cause the next piece of carpet to be 14" longer than originally anticipated.

The straightedge is sitting on the original 12' mark, and where the next piece of carpet needs to go there is a difference of 14".

I suppose a piece could be joined there, but that's not the best idea I don't think.

The next roll was cut to allow for the strip in front of the windows as well. It would be less of a crime to join there, as this is an area that will rarely be walked on.


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## fixrite

if it is at all possible to put your seams near a wall,I have found that to be best because 1 They don't get walked on so the seams hold up better 2) They usually are hidden with furniture that is generally set closer to the walls so the visual appeal is nicer as well. You seem to have thought it out well Keith. Despite all of the challenges presented to you by your local carpet distributor you are doing very well. If you do have to go to town to pick some things up keep in mind your need for more seaming tape as you have more seams than originally anticipated. By the way I like your chinese scissors, I have the same set and I find them to work well.


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## cocobolo

It looks like I will have about 47 feet of seams. And that is adding in the unexpected seam as a result of the narrow carpet.

I'm hoping the 50' roll will be enough.


----------



## fixrite

If I were you I would be tempted to check the length of that seaming tape it could of been damaged and trimmed , then put back on the shelf:laughing: Sorry :whistling2: I could not help myself.


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## rusty baker

Most seam tapes are 60'.


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## Bud Cline

Been following along and feeling bad for ya Keith. Which is more frustrating now? Carpet or tile?

Carry on.:whistling2:


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> If I were you I would be tempted to check the length of that seaming tape it could of been damaged and trimmed , then put back on the shelf:laughing: Sorry :whistling2: I could not help myself.


You could be right...I wouldn't put it past them!


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Most seam tapes are 60'.


Thanks Rusty...didn't know that. I only guessed it was 50' by the product number. If it's 60', I'm laughing!


----------



## cocobolo

Bud Cline said:


> Been following along and feeling bad for ya Keith. Which is more frustrating now? Carpet or tile?
> 
> Carry on.:whistling2:


Right now, that's a pretty easy call for me.

I think I would rather do 500 square feet of tile than 500 square feet of carpet. Although if the carpet had been the right width to start width, it would be a toss up.


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## Bud Cline

> Right now, that's a pretty easy call for me.
> I think I would rather do 500 square feet of tile than 500 square feet of carpet.


Your situation yesterday and today was me thirty-five years ago. You don't and won't hear about or see me ever touching a piece of carpet these days unless it is to walk on it. Carpet and sheet vinyl both got me in so much trouble years ago......

I grew to hate the damn stuff fairly quick.


----------



## cocobolo

I'm a firm believer in giving credit where it is due, and today the fellow at the House of Pot was only concerned about resolving my carpet problem and making me happy.

The end result - after a long and involved explanation by myself of all the associated problems that this narrow carpet has caused - is that we have been refunded the money for the amount of the carpet that we never received, which is as it should be.

After a thorough discussion, involving the chap who originally sold us the carpet, his boss and a fellow who has decades of carpet installation experience - including installing some _very expensive_ carpet for royalty in England - we determined that I could switch the two remaining rolls from where they were originally to go, at which point I would then need about a 4 foot length (12' wide) to finish in front of the window.

They gave me a 5' long x 12' wide piece at no charge to cover this.

From my perspective, this is a workable solution and is definitely preferable to returning all the carpet and starting from scratch. I did suggest that if _they_ would like to come and get the carpet, I would be fine with that.

I had an excellent chat with the long time installer, and he gave me some of the finer tips about installing carpet on the stair treads.

And Rusty, you will be happy to know that he said tackless is the way to go on the treads in this circumstance.

It was suggested to me, on another website, that I glue both the underpad and carpet to the treads. I have learned that this would very quickly become a disaster.

Now, the piece of carpet I picked up today may not be from the same dye lot, but we don't know for sure (probably not). So tomorrow, when we have some daylight I will be comparing the colours.

One other thing I have noticed about these berbers is that when they are first unrolled, the carpet is extremely flat. Once unrolled for a day, the loops seem to stand up and the carpet looks very different. I take it that this is normal...?


----------



## cocobolo

Bud Cline said:


> Your situation yesterday and today was me thirty-five years ago. You don't and won't hear about or see me ever touching a piece of carpet these days unless it is to walk on it. Carpet and sheet vinyl both got me in so much trouble years ago......
> 
> I grew to hate the damn stuff fairly quick.


That I can definitely believe...

The thing about tile is that once you get it down and grouted...that's it! Done! Finito!

And the thing is that the tile really doesn't cost any more than carpet. I can't really say that about the terra cotta tile, but then you could easily buy a more expensive carpet than what the T/C tile cost I guess.

As long as the missus likes this carpet, then I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## fixrite

Keith,what was the reason for the carpet not being 12 ft in width? This I got to hear


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Keith,what was the reason for the carpet not being 12 ft in width? This I got to hear


Still do not have the answer to that question.

However, they didn't have any problem providing me with the contact information for the manufacturer (Mohawk Carpets) and I will be calling them on Monday morning.

One of the reps there said that this width was "within tolerance" for first quality product, as HD does not deal in seconds.

I disagreed with that comment, as you may have guessed, by saying that every one of their advertising signs clearly shows the widths as being 12', and not 11' 5".

We did measure another roll of berber, and it was 11' 11 3/4" wide. In fact, that is the roll my extra 5' piece was cut from. So it appears that there is no allowance for trimming these carpets if you should happen to need a full 12' width.


----------



## fixrite

I would of suggested that if a measure of 11' 5" is " within their tolerances" that they put a sign up stating that to all customers. And if it within there specs why did "their employees" not only not know this, but not check to see if would affect the amount needed by customers when purchasing. One would think when purchasing carpet that is suggestively sold as 12' goods the salesperson would bring it to ones attention. Maybe he is use to stating things as being bigger than they REALLY are:whistling2:


----------



## rusty baker

I don't know why the difference, but in the US, berber is almost always 12' 1 1/2" to 12' 2".


----------



## fixrite

I ran a carpet wholesale store in Victoria many years ago and the only odd sized rolls we had were rolls that were specialty products, mainly wool carpets.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> I would of suggested that if a measure of 11' 5" is " within their tolerances" that they put a sign up stating that to all customers. And if it within there specs why did "their employees" not only not know this, but not check to see if would affect the amount needed by customers when purchasing. One would think when purchasing carpet that is suggestively sold as 12' goods the salesperson would bring it to ones attention. Maybe he is use to stating things as being bigger than they REALLY are:whistling2:


If and when you should meet me in person, you will realize that I don't buy all of their BS. It simply doesn't fly.

One thing I forgot to ask was just how low their tolerances did go. I will ask that of Mohawk when I call them next Monday. And next time I'm in HD, I will let them know what Mohawk said...regardless of what it is.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> I don't know why the difference, but in the US, berber is almost always 12' 1 1/2" to 12' 2".


And I mentioned this to the sales guy, and he looked at me with a quizzical look like I was 49 cents short of a dollar.

Then I said I got this information from a fellow with damn near 40 _years_ experience in the business, (that would be you) so why would I have any reason to doubt his word?


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> I ran a carpet wholesale store in Victoria many years ago and the only odd sized rolls we had were rolls that were specialty products, mainly wool carpets.


That is also something the very experienced carpet layer mentioned today. Even he had no valid reason for why the carpet was so narrow.


----------



## fixrite

on a lighter note.......will you be getting up early to see the lunar eclipse at 5:30 am? Suppose to be the last one of the year.


----------



## rusty baker

I am just the opposite of Bud. I have installed vinyl, carpet and tile. And would rather install carpet. In fact I no longer do tile and only rarely vinyl. The only time I do vinyl is if it is a requirement to get a carpet job.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> on a lighter note.......will you be getting up early to see the lunar eclipse at 5:30 am? Suppose to be the last one of the year.


Since we are part way through December there could hardly be any more this year! 

A lunar eclipse can only happen at full moon.

I did get the notification in from the Sky & Telescope website. If I'm conscious then I will try a pic or two. Guess I should get the camera and tele lens ready to go just in case.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> I am just the opposite of Bud. I have installed vinyl, carpet and tile. And would rather install carpet. In fact I no longer do tile and only rarely vinyl. The only time I do vinyl is if it is a requirement to get a carpet job.


It's a good thing that you don't do tile Rusty. That would put Bud out of a job on the DIY site!

Here's the dope on the eclipse tomorrow morning...

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/A-Dawn-Eclipse-of-the-Moon-134436603.html


----------



## rusty baker

Bud knows far more about tile than I ever did.


----------



## Bud Cline

Fortunately most carpet in those years could be stretched enough to make up for my lack of rational judgement when I had a carpet knife in my hand but that damned sheet vinyl was the worst for me. I probably replaced a dozen vinyl pieces for small bathrooms I screwed up before I wised-up and never touched another piece of vinyl. That stuff is retarded.:yes: Hell I couldn't even template a room and cut the stuff properly.

The best thing about tile is the customer usually doesn't stand around and watch too long like they can with carpet and vinyl. With tile when a mis-cut is made it is easy enough to "WHOOPS dropped that sucker". Hate it when that happens. Dropping a piece of tile pretty well destroys the evidence instantly.


----------



## rusty baker

My problem with vinyl is that every manufacturer has their own adhesive, seam sealer and different requirements for every piece they make. 20 years ago, you only needed one adhesive and one sealer.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> My problem with vinyl is that every manufacturer has their own adhesive, seam sealer and different requirements for every piece they make. 20 years ago, you only needed one adhesive and one sealer.


That sounds exactly like all the tool manufacturers these days. Even something as simple as a tacker...every one of them has their own staples, which of course don't fit any other tacker.

Just a racket to keep us poor hard working guys broke!


----------



## rusty baker

Sears had a rechargeable tacker that used the same staples as the slectric duofast that most installers use. It was great. I still have one, they made them about a year, and then for some reason discontinued them.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Sears had a rechargeable tacker that used the same staples as the slectric duofast that most installers use. It was great. I still have one, they made them about a year, and then for some reason discontinued them.


I remember that...in fact I remember that they also used to have a manual tacker (way back when) that used proprietary staples. When I got the tacker, the sales guy told me they were going to stop making the staples to fit it shortly...so I bought about 40 boxes of staples. I think I still have a dozen or so boxes here, but have no idea where the tacker is now.

Another winner was that electric Arrow stapler. That useless thing wouldn't drive a staple through toilet paper. No kidding. It really could not drive a staple through common tarpaper. Total waste of time and money.


----------



## biggerhitter

Why not use a runner and then add some stair rods? they are really fashionable at the moment.

They are avaiiable cheap here www.quality-stair-rods.co.uk


----------



## cocobolo

biggerhitter said:


> Why not use a runner and then add some stair rods? they are really fashionable at the moment.
> 
> They are available cheap here www.quality-stair-rods.co.uk


You should find a couple of pics on the first page of this thread which shows that the stairs are circular in shape.

A typical runner uses the waterfall type of installation, which cannot work with these stairs unless you cut and sew the carpet for each of the treads.

Since I am nowhere near good enough to do something like that, I will stick with my preferred option of covering just the treads only. 

Welcome to the site by the way!


----------



## BigJim

cocobolo said:


> I remember that...in fact I remember that they also used to have a manual tacker (way back when) that used proprietary staples. When I got the tacker, the sales guy told me they were going to stop making the staples to fit it shortly...so I bought about 40 boxes of staples. I think I still have a dozen or so boxes here, but have no idea where the tacker is now.
> 
> Another winner was that electric Arrow stapler. That useless thing wouldn't drive a staple through toilet paper. No kidding. It really could not drive a staple through common tarpaper. Total waste of time and money.


I had the same problem with a duo-fast corrugated fastener gun, still can't find the fasteners. Also when I moved to Chattanooga from Memphis I discovered you can't buy Pasload staples here so I had to buy a Bostich stapler. Only Pasload staples will fit the Pasload gun.


----------



## cocobolo

Next question...I have just about finished getting the last of the underpad in place and will shortly be tackling the second piece of carpet, which is in the middle of the room.

In order to make the cuts off each edge of the carpet, do I need to partly stretch it first, or can I just use my straightedge with the carpet laying as is?

Thanks.


----------



## fixrite

There is no need to stretch carpet prior to it being seamed or installed.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> There is no need to stretch carpet prior to it being seamed or installed.


OK...I did read on one site that before you seam you should stretch a small amount. The reason they gave was because the heat bond tape apparently doesn't stretch.

So I just tried to stretch the tape by hand, and in a 4 foot length I can definitely stretch it somewhat. Which makes me think that the kicker will move it easily.

Does that make sense to you?


----------



## fixrite

cocobolo said:


> OK...I did read on one site that before you seam you should stretch a small amount. The reason they gave was because the heat bond tape apparently doesn't stretch.
> 
> So I just tried to stretch the tape by hand, and in a 4 foot length I can definitely stretch it somewhat. Which makes me think that the kicker will move it easily.
> 
> Does that make sense to you?



Generally when I install carpet I would cut all the carpet including the seams. I would then kick one piece into place. Seam the joint and kick the other piece in to finish it off. Once the tape is ironed onto the carpet it is not going to go anywhere unless you are a brute and stretch the carpet beyond what it should be, or kick it before it has cooled enough. You will find that when you are ironing your seam that the tape will seem to grow a little as the glue melts it does stretch a wee bit, but not much.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Generally when I install carpet I would cut all the carpet including the seams. I would then kick one piece into place. Seam the joint and kick the other piece in to finish it off. Once the tape is ironed onto the carpet it is not going to go anywhere unless you are a brute and stretch the carpet beyond what it should be, or kick it before it has cooled enough. You will find that when you are ironing your seam that the tape will seem to grow a little as the glue melts it does stretch a wee bit, but not much.


I gotta tell ya Mr. Fix, it's good to have someone who knows what the heck they are talking about. That makes far more sense to me. I promise you there is no chance of me kicking the carpet before it is very well cooled.

I will admit to being nervous about making those first two adjoining cuts.

Something else I just remembered...I don't know what kind of glue it takes to fix the edges of the berber with. Is it something special? I do have a variety of glues here and I forgot to ask when I was over yesterday if it was a specialty glue. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


----------



## fixrite

cocobolo said:


> Something else I just remembered...I don't know what kind of glue it takes to fix the edges of the berber with. Is it something special? I do have a variety of glues here and I forgot to ask when I was over yesterday if it was a specialty glue. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


Not sure what you mean by fixing the edges. If you use a very sharp blade and press hard you should have a great cut,no need to glue anything then. Maybe I am missing something here.:huh:


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Not sure what you mean by fixing the edges. If you use a very sharp blade and press hard you should have a great cut,no need to glue anything then. Maybe I am missing something here.:huh:


No, I don't think you're missing anything.

But the videos I have seen all caution that berber has a tendency to leave little bits on the edge. If there is such a thing I can always use my Chinese scissors to trim it very carefully.

As you have suggested before, I will be using a brand new blade for the cuts.

Well, here goes...


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## fixrite

The only thing I can think of that might help is....make your first cut with the knife, if you have not cut all the way through the tuffs, then finish it off with your scissors. If you need to give me a call and I can walk you through any challenge you might have. Good luck


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## cocobolo

I did as you suggested...

I put a piece of plywood under the edge of the carpet that was to be cut, laid the straightedge down, used a new blade in the knife, pushed like there was no tomorrow, but it still left quite a few strands that were not cut all the way through. The Chinese scissors finished that off.

Next, laid the next piece of carpet out and tucked it under the one I had just cut by just over an inch. Used the loop pile cutter on that, which worked quite well.

One thing I learned is never to make your first cut with that thing a long one. A short cut would have been a good idea. Too bad I didn't think of that first. While it did cut through everything, it still left a few strands here and there.

And you need to be really careful to keep the front edge of that cutter up against the top carpet. I knew that before I started the cut, but it ran off the wrong way anyway...just a little, but enough to annoy me. I might be able to pull the two edges together, but if not I may need to trim it again just a hair.


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## cocobolo

Here's a pic of where I cut the carpet to fit around a post. No post in the pic, but I am guessing this should be the first seam I do.


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## cocobolo

The carpet on the left I have cut...the other one on top is getting laid out in order to be cut.

Other pic is of the cutter at the end of that cut.


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## fixrite

Keith Looks good so far and the order of the seams, seems to be correct. By looking at the pic (around post)I was wondering if you have the nap of the carpet pieces all going in the same direction? It could just be the camera, but almost looks as if they are not going in the same direction.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Keith Looks good so far and the order of the seams, seems to be correct. By looking at the pic (around post)I was wondering if you have the nap of the carpet pieces all going in the same direction? It could just be the camera, but almost looks as if they are not going in the same direction.


I should have taken a pic of the whole thing there...in fact, give me a minute and I will do that.

The carpet is all one piece, so no change in direction...it's just the light.

I cut it to go around the post, as you will see in a minute.


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## cocobolo

Taken from different points around the post.

Now you can see it is all one piece.


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## cocobolo

For what it's worth, I have been doing a few practice cuts on this stuff, and I have discovered that if you follow the lines of the backing that you get a better and cleaner cut than just using the straightedge.

Looks like I have more trimming to do because of that. Oh, well. :huh:


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## fixrite

Thanks for the new pics, looks GREAT from my point of view. I think you will be ready for a floor laying apprentiship soon.:thumbsup:


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## cocobolo

_How do you delete a post?
_


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Thanks for the new pics, looks GREAT from my point of view. I think you will be ready for a floor laying apprentiship soon.:thumbsup:


Aaaah, I don't think so. Some of the edges don't follow those backing lines, and as a result when you push them together, the pattern on the carpet doesn't look right.

And besides, I plan on retiring from the carpet installation business _the second I am finished this job!_ :cursing::surrender::confused1::sweatdrop::excl:


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## fixrite

It can very daunting laying carpet as Berber is not the most forgiving carpet to install. I am available ( no charge) if you ever feel the need for some help.


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> It can very daunting laying carpet as Berber is not the most forgiving carpet to install. I am available ( no charge) if you ever feel the need for some help.


Your extreme generosity is showing again...

You know, all my life if I have decided I wanted or needed to do something I would take whatever time it needed to learn how to do whatever it was.

What annoys me about this particular job is that I started out with that big 7" strike against me. But regardless of that, there's no real reason that I cannot do this.

For whatever reason, I'm having the devil of a time getting the carpet to cut straight along one of the pattern rows.

I won't be doing any more trying tonight as the light is simply not good enough in here to see that well.

But tomorrow being another day will hopefully find me in a better frame of mind to get this thing done.


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## rusty baker

When you cut with the row follower, make sure that the blade is on the side of the piece you are installing, not on the cutoff side. It will improve the look of the seam.


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## fixrite

Yes tomorrow will be a better day.:clap::clap::clap:


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> When you cut with the row follower, make sure that the blade is on the side of the piece you are installing, not on the cutoff side. It will improve the look of the seam.


Now why the heck couldn't I figure that out for myself?

In places, there are all these horrible little fingers sticking out, doubtless the result of not having the cutter in the proper place.

Many, many thanks for that little tip Rusty. :thumbsup:


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## cocobolo

This morning I tried to cut the second side of the middle piece of carpet.

This was a selvedge edge and needed to go back about 1 1/4" to clear some of the mess on the back side, you know...that stuff that looks like it has melted.

So it turns out that it is possible to get a decent cut, and this one came out very well...it's the first cut I'm really happy with. Now if I can just get the adjoining cut to look as good, this will make a good seam.

Still working on the first pair of edges for the first seam. But I wanted to see how it went following Rusty's advice.


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## cocobolo

Finally, a small measure of success.

The two initial edges have now been cut (again) and appear to be fine. What ultimately worked for this was to use a freshly sharpened pair of Chinese scissors...tapped the joint to get the blades tight...and have at it.

Now I have to pray that there is enough carpet that I can pull together so that I don't have spaces against the post or the angled wall.


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## cocobolo

More good news...the carpet has pulled together without incident.

I tried a test seam on some scrap carpet - I'm finally learning - and that seemed almost too easy.  No doubt I will run into one pitfall or another.

Then I did the short join by the post, and that presently has a 50lb. box of tile sitting on it.

And now that the first pieces are close enough to join, I'm going to tackle the last piece of carpet at the far end of the room. When I say last...I mean the last big piece. There will need to be a short piece at the extreme far corner, plus whatever section is needed to join in front of the windows.

I think what has made it all work today is the fact that the sun is shining, and I'm a real sun lover. Does wonders for the soul, as well as laying carpet it seems! :thumbup:


----------



## cocobolo

Perhaps the mystery of the narrow carpet is revealing itself, at least partially.

This is the third and final roll to go down, and it was the first piece to be cut off the original roll at H.D.

The end against the back wall in this pic still measures 11' 4 7/8" wide, as did the other two rolls.


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## cocobolo

This piece of carpet is 23' long, and about 13' out from the wall, or only 10 feet from the beginning of the original roll at H.D., it now has grown to measure 11' 11", not far off what it should be.


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## cocobolo

I put the photo in with the measurement upside down so the folks in Oz could read it...you do believe that, don't you?

Here is where things got out of whack. Between the wall and that 13' mark, the carpet has a real dog leg in the selvedge side. Nice eh?


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## cocobolo

At the start of that bend it's 142" wide, and just a few inches further in it is down to 139 5/8".


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## cocobolo

As a small added bonus there is a hole in the backing...unfortunately, the fibers have thrown a shadow over most of the hole. But it's about 3" long and an inch or so wide.


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## cocobolo

This is a close up of the dog leg. In person it's a real mess. I don't have any idea how this came about, but I will try to find out from Mohawk.

And one more thing, the opposite side of the carpet - which has very obviously been cut - wasn't cut anywhere near straight.

From where the carpet starts off at the wall out to about 14', the cut tapers just over 3" on the pattern. At least that accounts for 3" of the 7" that is missing on the other two pieces.


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## rusty baker

The mills would tell you that twist in the carpet is in tolerance. Imagine if that had a very defined big pattern in it and you had to match it. That's something we see a lot.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> The mills would tell you that twist in the carpet is in tolerance. Imagine if that had a very defined big pattern in it and you had to match it. That's something we see a lot.


Really? That sure doesn't sound right.

Where that dog leg is, the pattern lines - which are in a diamond shape - are way out of whack. Most of that is getting cut off anyway, but I really don't see that as the point.

I wonder what they are going to say about the 3" that is cut off the opposite side?


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## cocobolo

I had a lengthy chat with the good folks at Mohawk down in Missouri this morning...gotta love those accents!

In a very direct contrast to what we have come to expect from corporate America, I got some good information from a 35 year experienced tech person at Mohawk. I was, of course, expecting the runaround, and I'm glad to say the opposite was true.

I explained everything as best I could, and it seems that this carpet should _never_ have left the mill. They have some sort of automated equipment which is supposed to read various bits of information off the carpet roll, one of which is the width.

Rusty, you might be interested to know that 11' 10" is the minimum width that they are supposed to let pass their Q.C. Evidently, a power stretcher can take care of most of that.

And as for that dog leg...that should have been caught and stopped on the spot. She was extremely surprised that the inspectors - of whom they have many - did not see that.

At this point I have made my peace, such as it is, with HD, but she said that I should let HD know and if a roll number can be provided with even a small end sample that Mohawk will make good on it.

So sometimes the big guys aren't so bad after all.

When I folded back the fat end over itself today, both sides of the piece overlapped the narrower section (as expected). The end of that roll is pretty sloppy.


----------



## BigJim

cocobolo said:


> I had a lengthy chat with the good folks at Mohawk down in Missouri this morning...gotta love those accents!
> 
> In a very direct contrast to what we have come to expect from corporate America, I got some good information from a 35 year experienced tech person at Mohawk. I was, of course, expecting the runaround, and I'm glad to say the opposite was true.
> 
> I explained everything as best I could, and it seems that this carpet should _never_ have left the mill. They have some sort of automated equipment which is supposed to read various bits of information off the carpet roll, one of which is the width.
> 
> Rusty, you might be interested to know that 11' 10" is the minimum width that they are supposed to let pass their Q.C. Evidently, a power stretcher can take care of most of that.
> 
> And as for that dog leg...that should have been caught and stopped on the spot. She was extremely surprised that the inspectors - of whom they have many - did not see that.
> 
> At this point I have made my peace, such as it is, with HD, but she said that I should let HD know and if a roll number can be provided with even a small end sample that Mohawk will make good on it.
> 
> So sometimes the big guys aren't so bad after all.
> 
> When I folded back the fat end over itself today, both sides of the piece overlapped the narrower section (as expected). The end of that roll is pretty sloppy.


That is great that you got a little satisfaction with the carpet Keith. Talking about accents, I went home with a buddy of mine who lived in Connecticut when I was in the Navy, his grand mother was French Canadian, even though she was speaking English, I could not understand anything she said. Man talk about talking fast, she was letting it roll. They all were really amused at the way I talked with my southern accent. I know I do have an accent but you haven't heard anything until you get just a little further south. Some of them ole boys down there talk so slow you have to hold yourself back from helping them talk.


----------



## cocobolo

jiju1943 said:


> That is great that you got a little satisfaction with the carpet Keith. Talking about accents, I went home with a buddy of mine who lived in Connecticut when I was in the Navy, his grand mother was French Canadian, even though she was speaking English, I could not understand anything she said. Man talk about talking fast, she was letting it roll. They all were really amused at the way I talked with my southern accent. I know I do have an accent but you haven't heard anything until you get just a little further south. Some of them ole boys down there talk so slow you have to hold yourself back from helping them talk.


I actually spoke with four different folks there...all of them ladies. Eventually, they had me talking to the tech gal who was the one with 35 years experience. There didn't seem to be too much that she didn't know about carpet I can tell you.

As for the cut side of the carpet, this would have been done by a machine, not someone with a knife, and apparently it should have been one of the signs that this carpet should not have been shipped out.

She was explaining a little bit about some of the automated machinery there which was quite interesting. I wouldn't mind going through a factory like that just for interest's sake.

The standard lengths of carpet rolls from that mill is 100', 125' and 150'.

They will also do custom length rolls for special orders.


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## rusty baker

I can tell you that most installers think that mill inspectors are blind. They can tell you what they want. Defective rolls coming out are not unusual . The thing is, once the store or installer cuts it, they are stuck with it. All berber and/or commercial carpet has some flaws. Always has. Just some are a lot worse than others.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> I can tell you that most installers think that mill inspectors are blind. They can tell you what they want. Defective rolls coming out are not unusual . The thing is, once the store or installer cuts it, they are stuck with it. All berber and/or commercial carpet has some flaws. Always has. Just some are a lot worse than others.


Blind inspectors!! Good one! Sounds like some of the building inspectors who will look the other way when a little green passes their palm.

I hear you on that berber, the sides are really pretty lousy. You'd think they might improve the manufacturing capability to remove all those flaws. I'm finding lots of melted lumps of something on the back side of those edges. It has to be taken off before the carpet will cut.


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## rusty baker

Carpet price is partly based on weight. The mills discovered a long time ago that they could cut back on face yarn(it's expensive) and add Georgia clay(it's cheap) to the latex on the backings. They get the same weight for less money . But you get lumps and hard spots.


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Carpet price is partly based on weight. The mills discovered a long time ago that they could cut back on face yarn(it's expensive) and add Georgia clay(it's cheap) to the latex on the backings. They get the same weight for less money . But you get lumps and hard spots.


So that's what it is? The lumps are all the way down both sides where there is selvedge. I got the knack of snapping them backwards and they break right off.

Makes you wonder why they just don't save the clay and make real tiles out of it.


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## gma2rjc

With that much clay in it, maybe it should be called carpetile. :whistling2:


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## cocobolo

gma2rjc said:


> With that much clay in it, maybe it should be called carpetile. :whistling2:


Don't they have a product they call carpet tile? Seriously...I think it comes in small squares.

It used to be around many years ago, don't know if it still is. I doubt _very much _if a real carpet layer would even get near the stuff!


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## fixrite

There is such a thing, and it's target is mainly the dyi person, although some are touted as being commercial type. I have seen some that are meant to be used outdoors mostly. I guess for patio areas and such. Glad to see you are making progress all in all. Cheers


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> There is such a thing, and it's target is mainly the dyi person, although some are touted as being commercial type. I have seen some that are meant to be used outdoors mostly. I guess for patio areas and such. Glad to see you are making progress all in all. Cheers


This morning was another trip to town, but it was to replace a defective battery as well as get a new row of batteries.

When I got back there was a cedar log to split up and get up to the woodshed, so all in all there isn't any carpet work getting done today. I need good light to do that, and having got this far I don't want to run the risk of making a complete botch job of it if I can't see what I'm doing.

Plenty of other things to keep me busy here!


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## rusty baker

They still make carpet tiles. You see them mostly in offices. If one gets dirty, you can take it outside and hose it off and put it back.


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## cocobolo

Had a chance to try and cut the third row of carpet in the bedroom today.

I tried laying the cuts out on the back side of the carpet, and although I'm pretty good at math and layout, i couldn't get the lines to come out in exactly the same place twice. Close, but....

So I figured the only thing I could do was to start cutting off pieces that I knew for sure weren't needed and see if I could get the carpet past the door, which is what was causing all the difficulty.


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## cocobolo

Granted, it looks easy enough to do, but there is a very heavy bed in the way and there is simply no place to move it. As it is, I have built a temporary floor to cover the big hole, and that is where the bed sits for now.

The 2 x 12's you see are part of the temporary floor which is about 18' long and 7' or so wide in a football like shape.


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## cocobolo

Trying to wind this thing around the far end there was nothing but a giant fight, and I finally just started making cuts 3 or 4 inches long and slowly worked my way around the whole thing. 

This is where it sits for now, more tomorrow when I get more light. But at least the worst of it is done. 

Now I have to cut the bottom of the door off to gain a little clearance.


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## fixrite

Glad to see you are making good progress.:thumbsup: For a novice you are doing a great job.:thumbup:


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## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Glad to see you are making good progress.:thumbsup: For a novice you are doing a great job.:thumbup:


Novice? _Novice!!!_ I'll have you know I've been at this thing for a week now.

Novice indeed! Huh. :jester:


----------



## fixrite

OK we can shorten the apprenticeship program just for you.:wink: I have a little challenge I thought I might ask you for some advise ...if you don't mind. I have made a transition strip in my entry way out of maple. It is 3 " wide and only 3/8" thick at it's peak. What would you use to put this in place. On one side I have tile that will not move, and the other side I have maple flooring that will move. I am scratching my head ( chasing that brain fart all over the place) and wondering if I should glue or screw or nail. Any suggestions:confused1:


----------



## Bud Cline

> Novice? Novice!!! I'll have you know I've been at this thing for a week now.


See? What'd I tell ya about that damned carpet stuff? 
You probably shouldn't quit your carpenter day-job to become a carpet installer.:no:


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> OK we can shorten the apprenticeship program just for you.:wink: I have a little challenge I thought I might ask you for some advise ...if you don't mind. I have made a transition strip in my entry way out of maple. It is 3 " wide and only 3/8" thick at it's peak. What would you use to put this in place. On one side I have tile that will not move, and the other side I have maple flooring that will move. I am scratching my head ( chasing that brain fart all over the place) and wondering if I should glue or screw or nail. Any suggestions:confused1:


Wait a minute...you're a flooring guy and you're asking _me_ for advice???

Tell you what, if you post a couple of photos I'll ask Bud what he thinks. :laughing:


----------



## cocobolo

Bud Cline said:


> See? What'd I tell ya about that damned carpet stuff?
> You probably shouldn't quit your carpenter day-job to become a carpet installer.:no:


That's for damn sure!

I would like to quit my carpenter day-job - which would mean the house would be finished - which in turn would mean I could sell it - which in turn again would mean I could get off this rock and buy a place over on Vancouver Island - which would mean I could get started on hot rodding my '35 Chevy. How's that sound?

Who ever invented this carpet stuff anyway? :huh:


----------



## Bud Cline

> Tell you what, if you post a couple of photos I'll ask Bud what he thinks.


Oh no you don't! I can't get involved in that kinda stuff either. I'm just the token smart-ass around here and that's all.


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## cocobolo

Bud Cline said:


> Oh no you don't! I can't get involved in that kinda stuff either. I'm just the token smart-ass around here and that's all.


Now just hang on here a gosh darned minute.

Who said you could take over my job? :glare:


----------



## fixrite

Well.....Looks like I could not put one over on you. :whistling2::whistling2: I thought there was a 50/50 chance of you taking the bait:sneaky2: Looks like my chances of getting the local smart ass to answer is out as well. You may be old :laughing:but you are definitely not out to pasture as of yet. Why do I think I am in sooo much trouble:whistling2:


----------



## fixrite

FYI... I have informed the NFLA (National Floor Layers Association) about your response, and your apprenticeship is now under review.:biggrin: Apparently your inability to answer the question proposed to you adds reason to believe you have not read the handbook thoroughly enough. Also a concern regarding Buds unwillingness to assist a fellow floor layer with some sort of assistance will be under review by the board as well. (Something to do with brotherhood of floor layers section #17). He will also be investigated for failing to live up to his title of "Token Smart Ass":jester:. I don't expect any response to these charges any time soon as apparently the jury of your piers is even older than you are:laughing: and they are busy dealing with an abundance of egg nog and rum. Also under review will be just who really is the "Token Smart Ass" as apparently both of you are vying for the same position. Also there is some concern regarding your annual membership dues to the NFLA. As a member in good standing I am willing to receive them and forward them to the appropriate dept. The dues are $35.27. You may notice that the dues are similar to that of a case of Miller Genuine Draft, but I can assure you that is only a coincidence. :whistling2: Hope to hear from you soon regarding your progress in dealing with these concerns.


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## cocobolo

Dear Sir:

Please forgive the delay in responding to the aforementioned drivel. However, this being a Friday evening, my solicitor has been having some difficulty in reaching Mr. Cline's solicitor in order that they make a combined effort to solve the foregoing problem.

It seems that the NFLA has failed to pay their server, which has resulted in a loss of their name on the internet.

We have, however, been able to come up with the North Fork Lovers Association, the North Florida Lawnbowling association, the Nine Fingered Lawyers Association and the Not Frigging Likely Association, none of which seem particularly appropriate to this discussion.

Mr. Cline and myself have agreed to share the position of "Token Smart Ass", as this is a job for only the most experienced individuals. Our solicitors are currently drawing up a suitable agreement in order to facilitate this action.

There is, not surprisingly, a considerable stipend which goes with these positions, and once negotiations on this matter are finalized, our solicitors will be forwarding the bill to you for payment. We sincerely trust that this will not bankrupt you, as neither of us work cheap.

Please ensure that you are not guilty of any further terminological inexactitudes (look it up) and we look forward to a long and fruitful association in future. :smartass:


----------



## Bud Cline

.......ever seen the TV program Twilight Zone?


----------



## fixrite

:arabiaon't try to adjust your monitor.....we control the.......:smartass::laughing::whistling2:


----------



## BigJim

cocobolo said:


> Dear Sir:
> 
> Please forgive the delay in responding to the aforementioned drivel. However, this being a Friday evening, my solicitor has been having some difficulty in reaching Mr. Cline's solicitor in order that they make a combined effort to solve the foregoing problem.
> 
> It seems that the NFLA has failed to pay their server, which has resulted in a loss of their name on the internet.
> 
> We have, however, been able to come up with the North Fork Lovers Association, the North Florida Lawnbowling association, the Nine Fingered Lawyers Association and the Not Frigging Likely Association, none of which seem particularly appropriate to this discussion.
> 
> Mr. Cline and myself have agreed to share the position of "Token Smart Ass", as this is a job for only the most experienced individuals. Our solicitors are currently drawing up a suitable agreement in order to facilitate this action.
> 
> There is, not surprisingly, a considerable stipend which goes with these positions, and once negotiations on this matter are finalized, our solicitors will be forwarding the bill to you for payment. We sincerely trust that this will not bankrupt you, as neither of us work cheap.
> 
> Please ensure that you are not guilty of any further terminological inexactitudes (look it up) and we look forward to a long and fruitful association in future. :smartass:


, good gravy, does anyone around here speak *******:whistling2::laughing: Blame some of them big words ain't made it this far south yet.:tt2:


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## fixrite

:thumbup::laughing:I believe some of those words are being help up at the "Not Friggen likely Association"


----------



## Bud Cline

We ain't in carpetland any more Toto !!!


----------



## fixrite

:bangin:Clicking heels trying to get home...........


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## cocobolo

Bud Cline said:


> .......ever seen the TV program Twilight Zone?


Oh, so _that's_ what it's called. And here I always thought it was Toilet Zone, silly me. :wink:


----------



## cocobolo

jiju1943 said:


> , good gravy, does anyone around here speak *******:whistling2::laughing: Blame some of them big words ain't made it this far south yet.:tt2:


Hey Jim, we're having enough trouble trying to speak our own language, never mind having to learn ******* as well.

But if you have a DVD available to teach us....


----------



## cocobolo

Now if you guys wouldn't mind, I have to get back to work and actually do something today.

First thing I cut the door down to size so it wouldn't be dragging on that high priced carpet. If I remember from my carpentry apprentice days we are supposed to have 1" clearance at the bottom of the door for air changes and whatnot.

I'm quite sure the whatnot is more important than the air changes.


----------



## cocobolo

I have noticed something about the knives that I have been using to cut the carpet with...the carpet knife makes one cut and loses its' edge very quickly.

About 15 years ago I bought a package of 100 heavy duty blades from Lee Valley. One of these blades will make many cuts and still seems able to stay very sharp. They fit in any standard utility knife.

I don't know if they still carry this little package, but if they do I highly recommend them. After all these years I still have about 35 or so left. Looks like I will be able to will a few of them to my grandson's when the time comes.


----------



## cocobolo

I seamed the three big pieces of carpet this afternoon, after which it is obvious I will need to power stretch the carpet.

The last piece, the one with the dog leg, has a noticeable hump in it, right at the spot where the dog leg runs through the pattern. I think if the carpet can be stretched to the point that the pattern becomes straight it should flatten out.

If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. Thanks.


----------



## rusty baker

Hopefully it will stretch out.


----------



## fixrite

Keith, when using a power stretcher be sure to place a 2x4 or 2x6 against the wall when using to displace the pressure so as to not put a hole in the wall. There has been situations where walls have been moved by using a power stretcher (generally an inside one). You may also find it necessary to use a few staples to hold the carpet in place if you have to do some extreme stretching.


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## rusty baker

I have moved a few walls in my time.


----------



## cocobolo

fixrite said:


> Keith, when using a power stretcher be sure to place a 2x4 or 2x6 against the wall when using to displace the pressure so as to not put a hole in the wall. There has been situations where walls have been moved by using a power stretcher (generally an inside one). You may also find it necessary to use a few staples to hold the carpet in place if you have to do some extreme stretching.


Yes, I had read about that...I was going to use some 4 x 4's I have here for the purpose.

And I was wondering whether or not that tackless would hold up against the power of a stretcher, and seeing those short tacks that hold it to the floor had me thinking.

I didn't think of using staples, but that would most definitely help.

What if I used the ones in the pic right up against the wall...if they showed after the fact I can always add a baseboard to cover them up.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> I have moved a few walls in my time.


Something tells me those walls were _not_ supposed to move!


----------



## fixrite

:thumbup:Looks fine Keith. If you take your time and place the staples between the tuffs of the carpet they should be next to invisible.


----------



## rusty baker

Some builders, for some reason, don't fasten the walls to the floor. And the tack strip should hold when you power stretch.


----------



## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Some builders, for some reason, don't fasten the walls to the floor. And the tack strip should hold when you power stretch.


I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't fix a wall to the floor properly...makes no sense to me.

I have seen interior walls where the lazy builder has put just one nail in the bottom plate at each end of a wall. The plate should have nails driven through the plywood into every joist that the wall sits on.

Many walls do not end up straight because of something as simple as a crooked bottom plate, so pulling the wall straight and nailing properly eliminates this little annoyance. No wonder people are always saying their house isn't square!


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## cocobolo

rusty baker said:


> Hopefully it will stretch out.


Rusty, I concocted a home brewed stretcher, as HD doesn't have one to rent.

As soon as I moved the hydraulic jack on the stretcher out about 2" that big hump disappeared.

Details of the stretcher are on the Gulf Island thread.


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