# Ridge Vent vs Attic Fan?? Different info from pro roofers



## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

My husband and I are in the process of getting proposals to have our roof replaced and we are totally confused. 

We live in Maryland and have a 30 year old Colonial 2 story house. Our house has (I believe this is the correct term) lots of hips, 2 peaks and valleys.

Currently the house has two ridge vents (one over the "house" and one over the garage) and 1 electric attic fan (house) that was retro-fitted by the previous owner.

We have had two different proposals submitted to us that gives us completely conflicting information.

*Roofer #1 *(GAF Master Elite cert - offering Golden Seal Pledge): Says that the ridge vent and the attic fan are too close to each other and completely cancel each other out. He says to completely seal the ridge vent and he will install a new fan. He says he is sure the previous owner had the attic fan retrofitted because the house was not built with the appropriate amount of ridge vents.

This company has been in business for 5 years. They are showing on GAF's website as a Master Elite company. This company is the most expensive and had one of the worse presentations of information and materials.

*Roofer #2 *(GAF Master Elite cert - offering Golden Seal Pledge): Says that the ridge vent and the attic fan are too close to each other and completely cancel each other out. He says that he wants to remove the attic fan and seal that area up. He says that the Golden Seal Pledge will not be eligible if the ridge vent is sealed (will double check to be sure). He also says we would need a lot more fans in order to properly vent the home. He says that the home has plenty of ridge vents but its possible that the soffits(?) are/were clogged with insulation. he says he'll make sure the soffits are clear per code.

This company has been in business since 1969 (as far as I can tell). They are also showing on GAF's website as a Master Elite company. This company is the least expensive and had the most detailed and nicest presentation of information and materials.

Both companies have high ratings on sites like Angie's List. Maryland does not require roofers to have licenses unless modifying. Neither company seems to be a member of National Roofing Contractor's Association.

Help. We're so confused.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Got some pictures of the outside of the house?
Any cathedral ceilings.
With propper amount of soffit vents most often all you need is a ridge vent.
Any other venting will will cause the ridge to be useless. It will get it's make up air from the vent instead of the soffits.
The air needs to be sucked into the soffit vents and washed along the underside of the sheathing and out the ridge to remove all the hot moist air.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

It took me a while, but I located one!


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, I just got off the phone with Roofer #2. He said he spoke to GAF and they're telling him that the standard is 16' of ridge vent is the normal code BUT we only have 11' (due to the build of the home). He said that GAF would give him a pass on that because there's no way to get the extra 5' of ridge vent. 

He also said they told him w/o the ridge vent GAF would require 3-4 dome vents (which we do not want). 

Sadly, he can't tell me what having the less amount of ridge vent AND the lack of the attic fan will do to the interior of our home. 

Dang! This is getting more confusing, not less.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

MrsJoseph said:


> Sadly, he can't tell me what having the less amount of ridge vent AND the lack of the attic fan will do to the interior of our home.


The issue is about balancing the VOLUME of air coming in with what can go out.
Some more reading: LINK


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

The Dome vents would be placed on the backside of the home and garage, and you would never even notice them. It is a take or leave. With the ridge vents, if you have soffits, you better make sure that there are baffles in place along the edge, to keep any insulation product up in the attic away from the vent line, otherwise, soffit vents are useless.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

I think...I need to go do some serious math.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> The Dome vents would be placed on the backside of the home and garage, and you would never even notice them. It is a take or leave. With the ridge vents, if you have soffits, you better make sure that there are baffles in place along the edge, to keep any insulation product up in the attic away from the vent line, otherwise, soffit vents are useless.



Well, the back of the garage is actually a family room. It is the only room with high ceilings (rest are standard height) and it has skylights. So all the dome vents would have to go on the back of the "house" portion. I don't think we have enough roof space for that. It's all at an angle.

Re: soffits
Should we have the attic inspected, first?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

MrsJoseph said:


> Well, the back of the garage is actually a family room. It is the only room with high ceilings (rest are standard height) and it has skylights. So all the dome vents would have to go on the back of the "house" portion. I don't think we have enough roof space for that. It's all at an angle.


It would be what is called a Cathedral ceiling.



> Re: soffits
> Should we have the attic inspected, first?


It should have been done when you had the Home Inspector in to look over the property before you signed any documents.


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes, have the attic inspected. The attic fan/ridge vent combination is not a good idea, the attic fan can suck air directly through the ridge vent.
With that short of a ridge I would probably not use ridge vent, but if I did I would make sure you get one with the highest NFA possible, with GAF I believe that is snow country.
If hes claiming GAF would give you a warranty even though you have less then the required ventilation, I would get it in writing, from a GAF rep. It is my assumption you will have trouble getting that. 

You could look into the new hip venting products, I cant comment on them specifically because I have never used them.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Personally I would find another contractor. I went with one that our realtor recommended, and did a good job. We had some other stuff needed to be done, and he was on top of it and cheaper than having anyone else do it, and it was by far better workmanship. Now we are having him remove an old chimney, due to it would be more to tear down and rebuild, than have him remove, replace the rotted timber up there, cover with #30 felt and shingle, plus have our other guy install a direct vent water heater than again having someone else do it.

All together both will come out cheaper than anyone else in our town. So just stating, find another guy, that does not have the largest add in the paper, knows what they are doing, not just second guessing, or having to call the company that manufactures the shingles to tell them how to do their job. My guy is just a four man operation and can do a roof in less time than the companies with crews of ten or twenty, for a 1/3 of what the others cost in my town.

As for the Ridge vent, it does not matter how long the roof line is, as long as you have proper soffit venting at the bottom, the ridge vent will do its job as it should, with no extra vents or a fan on the roof.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

BTW, what is making you want to replace the roof? Is it starting to show too much particle shed off of the face in the gutters, cracking real bad all over, bad hail storm or wind storm recently, rot up in the attic? Just asking what brought on this decision. BTW, if you go with anything, go with the Elk shingles, since they have the tar at the bottom underneath edge not at the top middle face half, which makes it harder for them to come up during a wind event, plus they hold up better to stuff falling on the roof, or small hail storm events.


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> As for the Ridge vent, it does not matter how long the roof line is, as long as you have proper soffit venting at the bottom, the ridge vent will do its job as it should, with no extra vents or a fan on the roof.


I agree with you on some points, but this is misinformation. Ridge vents work on NFA, or net free area. Most vents have NFAs ranging from 11-17 per lineal foot. Assuming he has the maximum flow possible, that is only 187sq inches of ridge venting with his short ridge. That is less venting than is accomplished by 4 traditional roof vents.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

*Ridge Cap*

I am from Maryland also, and I recommend that you read my previous posts regarding asphalt roof shingles. I am an RCI Registered Roof consultant, and my partner (Now Deceased) and I did a lot of research on shingle failure.

To your home. You have two different situations. You should install continuous ridge and soffit ventilation on the family room/ garage. 

You should install continuous soffit ventilation on the main house, and install two low profile mushroom fans on the rear slope that activate by thermostat, and humidistat. Have the roofer prime and paint them to color match the shingles.

Ridge ventilation is worthless without continuous open soffit ventilation. You need to have baffles at the soffit areas. Your soffit will have to be removed to check and correct this.

The fact that you "Got a Pass" on lack of ventilation ought to tell you something. Like I said, read my other posts re shingles and ventilation.

You may want to check out Certainteed Landmark Shingles also. Thats what I just put on.

Photo is what Landmark Pewter looks like, also ridge cap to gable end and hidden hangers.

I will be painting the shutters in the Spring for an entirely different effect. No, it wont be Ravens Purple. Thats the nice thing about this color shingle.

PS Dont Judge me by my Landscaping its all coming out in the spring.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

jagans said:


> I am from Maryland also, and I recommend that you read my previous posts regarding asphalt roof shingles. I am an RCI Registered Roof consultant, and my partner (Now Deceased) and I did a lot of research on shingle failure.
> 
> To your home. You have two different situations. You should install continuous ridge and soffit ventilation on the family room/ garage.
> 
> ...


Jagan has it nailed. The garage roof is perfect for ridge vent. The house isn't. You have very little ridge on the house roof.. Get a couple power vents on the back of the house roof on temp/hum sensors. I also like landmark shingles. Go to certain teed website and see if there is a certified installer in your area. Landmarks have the best looking ridge shingles on the market. The way you roof is laid out they will really dress if up. Unlike gaf there ridge shingles are bla. Finally you have a nice looking house. Unfortunately i can't recommend a landmark color for you. I'm not sure what color pallet Maryland runs off. Ask Jagan what color landmark he thinks would look nice.:yes: He is in Maryland and knows what colors are available.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Pewter would be perfect, and neutral, which is what you want, They mimic slate, which would look very good on your home. Which is very nice.

As an added tip, Have the roofer run your ridge vent on the garage all the way out to the end, even though the ridge is not cut all the way to the end. It looks much better than stopping it 2 feet short of the rake.

2. Full sheet of ice dams centered on the valley, felt run onto valley min 6 inches.

3. Ice dams to 2 feet inside the exterior wall line, felt over

4. New drip edge at eaves and rakes, enveloped in ice dams flashing.

5. Clad Fascia with white aluminum if not clad already.

6. New seamless gutters rolled on site. Hang with hidden hangers 24 inches on center, New DS and els screwed together with HWH SS screws so you can take them apart if necessary. (Leaves)

7. Nail shingles to high wind spec.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

I *think* we have soffits in addition to the ridge vents. We also have a powerfan. 

We're getting the roof redone because the previous owner was not home when the current roof was done. The company that did the home placed the roof over the old roof so we have the builder grade 30 year old roof that's helping to cause leakage in the home.

We contacted GAF ourselves and - everyone is giving us a slightly different answer. From what I can find online it looks like the powerfan is a bad idea. I've read that it will kill our energy bill in the summer and suck out A/C air.

We picked our contractor based on GAF Master Elites listed on their website. We want to get the best warrenty possible - especially since these businesses could possibly go under. We didn't go for the biggest company in the area - we went with the guy who seemed to be lying to us the least, lol. We've interviewed quite a few different contractors - about 7 so far.

I'l go read up on the ventilation, jagans. Thanks for the photos!


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

Ok, just read this thread for the first time.

i would not hire either of the two roofers. My background is I got into construction roofing back in the 80's.

it is important to check to see if the soffit ventilation is not covered. as far as the ridge vent is concerned, I would add hip ridge vents. these are like the ridge vent you have now, that don't show as they are shingled over.

if you want to read more on ventilation, go to buildingscience,com for more info.

One other thing, manufacturer is not that important. you need to read up on your specific state to see if the manufacturer has had problems. I say this because I have conversed with other roofers from other areas and we all differ on the manufacturer. in other words, some factories have had problems in certain areas.

For example, I would not use GAF in Kentucky as the roofers there have had problems with it. here in Central NY where I live, we use GAF's all of the time, but don't care for other brands that I have had problems with.

One more thing, buy the thickest you can afford, as it will last longer.:thumbsup:


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

framer52 said:


> Ok, just read this thread for the first time.
> 
> i would not hire either of the two roofers. My background is I got into construction roofing back in the 80's.
> 
> ...


 
Oooh. Uh oh. 

We wanted to go with GAF because they have a factory located less than 45 miles away from our home. Our area seems to be either GAF or CertianTeed only. Most of the contractors are using GAF. We only had 2 out of 7 offer CertianTeed.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

747 said:


> Jagan has it nailed. The garage roof is perfect for ridge vent. The house isn't. You have very little ridge on the house roof.. Get a couple power vents on the back of the house roof on temp/hum sensors. I also like landmark shingles. Go to certain teed website and see if there is a certified installer in your area. Landmarks have the best looking ridge shingles on the market. The way you roof is laid out they will really dress if up. Unlike gaf there ridge shingles are bla. Finally you have a nice looking house. Unfortunately i can't recommend a landmark color for you. I'm not sure what color pallet Maryland runs off. Ask Jagan what color landmark he thinks would look nice.:yes: He is in Maryland and knows what colors are available.


 
The shingles we currently have are Landmark 40 Slate something or the other. We found the paperwork from the previous installation from the previous owner. 
I'm sad that the company got him so bad - the shingles look great but the installation was crap.


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

How is the install so bad?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I have a power fan, and actually it does not "kill" your energy bill. Mine usually kicks on around 1 in the afternoon and shuts down around 5:30-6, unless it is super hot around 112 like we had last year, then it would run until 8pm.

We do not have soffit's in our Bungalow, and before the power vent, attic temps would reach 135-140. Now it gets usually no higher than 112, and once it has ran for about a hour or two, I see the temps get down around 99. It shuts off around. 90 degrees.

It uses around a penny a day to run, which is by far cheaper than a a/c running with the furnace during a high temp/humidity event.

People tend to not run their systems efficient, by either setting the temp too high/low while away, then mis-adjust the temp when they are home, to compensate for making it too warm during the Summer or too cold during the Winter.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

To add, laying another layer on the existing shingles will not make the prev. layer leak. Only way there would be leaks, is if they were pre-existing and never addressed to begin with.

The part that the contactors could be inflating is the price of tear off and fixing any timber in the trusses, along with sheathing.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

It is my opinion that an asphalt shingle should never be recovered. 

1. You cant check to see if the deck has suffered damage or if it is properly secured.

2. You cannot properly install ice dams material or felt. 

3. The new roof depends on the old roof for support, and problems in the old can transmit to the new.

4. A lot of unnecessary dead load is added to the structure, decreasing the live load capability.

5. The old roof increases heat aging of the new roof.

And a bunch of others which other pros will add.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

framer52 said:


> How is the install so bad?


 
He paid for a complete tear off and install. Complete with new skylights, etc.

He received none of that. The old roof is there. it is "fine" so far, I guess. Except it seems that none of the flashing, etc was replaced when the new shingles were layered over the old roof. There are signs of previous leaking in all 4 skylights (which were not replaced, either).

Per the previous owner the roofers had to come back due to leaks, etc - they only re-caulked. There are signs of lots of old (and failing) caulking lines. 

There is no drip edge.

The old shingles were cut back along the entire edge of the home - per a roofer who repaired an old leak this means that the entire edge around the home may (or may not, depending on luck) have some rot/dry rot of the plywood.

I think that's enough. I'm hoping there will be no more issues...but I'm sure we will find more once the old roof starts to come off.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

So here's a slightly off topic question:

I have a copy of the previous owner's warranty, along with the name, address and phone number of the company who installed it.

Should I contact them or should I just leave it alone? Per what I have read of the warranty the installation job voids out the warranty of the product. 

I am not sure how much - if any - years the workmanship warranty came with. I'm just looking at the product warranty.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

jagans said:


> It is my opinion that an asphalt shingle should never be recovered.
> 
> 1. You cant check to see if the deck has suffered damage or if it is properly secured.
> 
> ...


 
This is what I have been told. I've also been told that "the new roof is only as good as the old roof" when they are layered in this manner.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

This is a copy of the specs the contractor we are *thinking* about going with has sent to us. 

What do yall think?



> *Glass-Fiber-Reinforced Asphalt Shingles – Multilayer Architectural Asphalt Shingles: glass-fiber reinforced, mineral-granule surfaced, and self-sealing. Product to be GAF Timberline shingle with Algae Resistance: Granules treated to resist Algae growth.*
> 
> *Underlayment Materials - Felts: GAF Shingle-Mate fiberglass reinforced roof deck protection.*
> 
> ...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Looks to me that all they did was print off a standard boiler plate estimate that they use on all their jobs.

As I stated before, find another company or two. Does not have to have the whole "Certified by such and such in their disclaimer", they just need to know what they are doing.

That is why I went with the guy I did, because not only was his bid mid-range, but because he came with experience and did not flash around the whole "certified by xyz."

That is why I have him do stuff for me, along with his dad when I need other items done. His father works on the Lincoln home and other historic sites, so I know that I can trust their workmanship.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

It is my opinion that you should read what has been posted regarding proposals by those posters that sound like they know what they are talking about.

What is to be provided should be specific if it is an actual bid and not a boiler plate document that needs to be modified.

Example: I would not allow 3/8 staples to be used to secure underlayment. I would require roofing nails with plastic caps. That being said, the installation of shingles should follow application of the underlayment on the same day.

Most roofers today use pneumatic nail guns. I would require galvanized nails of domestic manufacture.

Ice dams material should extend two feet inside the interior plane of your exterior walls In other words, two feet inside the dry wall.

There must be clauses to cover the following:

Time of contract.
Hours and days of work.
Protection during construction.
Repair of damage to property by contractor. (Take Before Pictures)
Use of facilities (Roofers have to use the bathroom too)
Contractor responsible for consequential damages.
There must be a unit price for replacement of bad decking. Unit should be minimum 4 x 4 feet and span three supports

Payment: You should not pay anything up front. Payment should be made for completed work only. You do not want to deal with any contractor that needs up front money.

I don't like "self flashing" skylights. Skylights should have a curb and a counter flashing, and be flashed like a chimney with individual base tins, commonly referred to as step flashing.

There are several models of the Timberline. Which model are you getting?
Make sure they are algae resistant.

Hope some of this helps.


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## MrsJoseph (Mar 5, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> Looks to me that all they did was print off a standard boiler plate estimate that they use on all their jobs.
> 
> As I stated before, find another company or two. Does not have to have the whole "Certified by such and such in their disclaimer", they just need to know what they are doing.
> 
> ...


 
I guess, my problem is that there are over 17000 roofers in our (local) area. How do I narrow them down to an acceptable number? We tried contacting neighbors who had roofs done. We checked out their guys. From there we narrowed it further by using Angie's List. And once we decided between the two basic products we were willing to use (GAF or CertianTeed)... how to narrow it down from there? The guy who gave me the above contract has the most experience in the industry thus far. 
He also gave us referrals that are local in our area so that we can drive by and check them out. He's also offered us the best price for the best shingles we can get. 

The guy who did our neighbor's roof has come out and sent back info - but not even this much info. Just the basics slapped into an email. 

We had one guy lie so badly it was sad. 

One guy lie about the most basic of things. While he was measuring the roof I needed to leave. My husband was still there with the door open. When he called me about it...I asked him why he left before discussing with my husband. His response? He "rang the doorbell and knocked for 15 mins before he left." I call BS. My husband watched him drive off.

It's been a constant barrage of people like that.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

The problem with staples, is if you have a wind event, nothing will hold them done, unlike if they were nailed with a power nailer, they will not go anywhere.

Forget Angie's list, and as for 1700 or so roofers, that an be an arbitrary number, due to a lot could be companies that have changed names.

We spent two months looking for a roofer when we did ours in 2007, and it was our realtor like I stated before, that got us our roofer.

All it took was a handshake and verbal agreement, no signing, due to I knew that I could trust him. Why do you think that I have him come back for other stuff that I need done for the roof, like now pulling out the old chimney, had him put in the power vent, and removed some old windows up in the attic, which he had his dad do, since he was sick, but still showed up to help his dad.


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