# ac compressor clutch hub falls of onto street



## noquacks

Guys,

lost my hub (also known as plate?). Figured I can get one at junk yard. Honda civic ex 2001, Sanden scroll. I dont have a shop manual, so anybody know if I need special tools to yank a hub off at a yard? Juts a ratchet socket?

Thnaks!


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## ukrkoz

just a socket wrench and just a socket of the right size will do the job - IF YOU HAVE A TOOL TO LOCK PULEY FROM SPINNING. sometimes belt does the job for you. sometimes it's center bolt, sometimes it's 3 bolts.
and you have my word, there will be NO clearance to get to it easy. 
mof, I am not sure what actually fell off. was it outside clutch plate, or pulley? or both? 
and be prepared for locking spring inside too.


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## ukrkoz




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## noquacks

Thnaks, UK. Yes, it is not the pulley but just the plate. (maybe I was wrong in calling it the hub). The pulley of course has to still be on for the car to still run well. Serpentine belt intact. Its just that exterior "face" plate. I understand you dont hold down the pulley to unscrew that center nut, but you hold down the plate "rivets" , sometiimes even a screwdriver will work (I read at one reference). makes sense, UK?

Thanks


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## noquacks

in further clarifying, if you look at the comp from the side of the driv side wheel, you can see the center stud without the nut on the threads!! Also, you can see the clutch/pulley(?) face surfaces. Thats when I was shocked to find out I lost the plate......


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## ukrkoz

outside plate that fell off is friction clutch plate. when coil is activated, it works as a magnet, pulls pulley towards it, then it locks pulley, pulley engages a/c compressor. rivets you seeing are part of dampening mechanism, just like you have in clutch plate.
brother, it seriously depends on how easy it is to access. several Civics we had, there's no clearance for anything. finger width between tirewell and any given pulley. unless this one can be accessed from the bottom, with wheel and fender cover removed.
impact wrench does those very well, if you can get it on. otherwise, you do have to jam a/c shaft to release shaft nut. friction outer plate is sitting on the compressor shaft, attached to it. pulley spins freely on the axle, unless magnetized.



 *Compressor Clutch Basics*


 _A belt drive attached to the engine spins constantly, providing energy for the AC compressor. The belt turns a rotor, which has a friction plate attached to it. Near the rotor is an electromagnet--a coil of wire which produces a magnetic field when current is run through it. Across from the friction plate is another friction plate attached to the rotor that powers the air conditioner._


 *Function*


 _When the electromagnet turns on, it produces a powerful magnetic field through the rotor. Since the fan belt rotor and the air conditioner rotor are both made out of iron, the magnetic field magnetizes both of them, pulling them towards each other. This causes the friction plates to push tightly in to each other. Initially, the rotor friction plate is turning and the compressor friction plate is not. Once they are touching, however, friction between the two plates makes the air conditioner rotor spin. When the electromagnet is turned off, the friction plates spring apart and the compressor stops moving._




they call pulley rotor in this case. same principle. beware, that you might be dealing with a left hand thread on the shaft either. I'd say, a pry-bar jammed against hub "rivet" and floor/ground, to lock it in place, should do. 
impact wrench would have been ideal. bang!! 
why exactly did the nut fall off? make sure you know the cause, before you waste time at junk yard, just to find that compressor shaft it busted and you need to replace entire piece. 
​


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## noquacks

ukrkoz said:


> outside plate that fell off is friction clutch plate. when coil is activated, it works as a magnet, pulls pulley towards it, then it locks pulley, pulley engages a/c compressor. rivets you seeing are part of dampening mechanism, just like you have in clutch plate.
> brother, it seriously depends on how easy it is to access. several Civics we had, there's no clearance for anything. finger width between tirewell and any given pulley. unless this one can be accessed from the bottom, with wheel and fender cover removed.
> impact wrench does those very well, if you can get it on. otherwise, you do have to jam a/c shaft to release shaft nut. friction outer plate is sitting on the compressor shaft, attached to it. pulley spins freely on the axle, unless magnetized.
> 
> 
> 
> *Compressor Clutch Basics*
> _A belt drive attached to the engine spins constantly, providing energy for the AC compressor. The belt turns a rotor, which has a friction plate attached to it. Near the rotor is an electromagnet--a coil of wire which produces a magnetic field when current is run through it. Across from the friction plate is another friction plate attached to the rotor that powers the airconditioner._
> *Function*
> 
> 
> _When the electromagnet turns on, it produces a powerful magnetic field through the rotor. Since the fan belt rotor and the air conditioner rotor are both made out of iron, the magnetic field magnetizes both of them, pulling them towards each other. This causes the friction plates to push tightly in to each other. Initially, the rotor friction plate is turning and the compressor friction plate is not. Once they are touching, however, friction between the two plates makes the air conditioner rotor spin. When the electromagnet is turned off, the friction plates spring apart and the compressor stops moving._
> 
> 
> they call pulley rotor in this case. same principle. beware, that you might be dealing with a left hand thread on the shaft either. I'd say, a pry-bar jammed against hub "rivet" and floor/ground, to lock it in place, should do.
> impact wrench would have been ideal. bang!!
> why exactly did the nut fall off? make sure you know the cause, before you waste time at junk yard, just to find that compressor shaft it busted and you need to replace entire piece.
> ​


Wow, UK, thanks for the education. Its so cool to understand how these things work! 

Just one thing, while were at it- since the rotor friction plate, (the piece spinning, always attached to the serpentine belt) spins constantly WITH the belt, does that piece move TOWARD the outer compressor shaft plate, or vise versa? Cuz, Im thinking its the outer plate that moves toward the rotor piece, otherwise, that would mean the inner rotor piece would have to shift away from the PLANE of the serpentine belt, right? But maybe so, since were talking maybe 0.020 ", right? 

I will check as you said, the threads of the comp shaft threaded stud for stripping, etc. Still, might take the chance at the yard and go from there- most they could charge me for that piece would be 10-20$.

Thanks, UK!


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## ukrkoz

_When the electromagnet turns on, it produces a powerful magnetic field through the rotor. Since the fan belt rotor and the air conditioner rotor are both made out of iron, the magnetic field magnetizes both of them,* pulling them towards each other. This causes the friction plates to push tightly in to each other.* Initially, the rotor friction plate is turning and the compressor friction plate is not. Once they are touching, however, friction between the two plates makes the air conditioner rotor spin.

_pulley moves just a bit towards clutch out plate_. _clearance is minute to affect belt. I bet all of us had a car that produced gentle metal on metal noise, with a/c clutch disengaged. That's how close they are.


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## noquacks

Thanks, UK. 

Probably go to yard tomorrow........


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## ukrkoz

you welcome, bud. have fun. 2 feet cheat pipe always comes handy. or cordless impact wrench.


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## noquacks

Well, UK, (sad, holding leaning on left hand, left elbow on desk), back from the yard, and kinda figured that a 2001 civic is too "new" to be in a yard. No junk car, no compressor, no clutch end plate. 

Now, only way is to maybe find an entire complete comp at a yard like car-part.com or something. Even thoughI only need the dump plate. Even comp parts places that sell parts will sell the entire clutch assbly (and theyre not cheap), so might as well buy a used one for say, $50-60. 

Alternatives appreciated. Oh, I can wait for this as hey, its almost "winter" in florida.....LOL


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## ukrkoz

how in the world is pulley staying in place though? 
yeah, a/c comps ain't cheap. I think, you need to buy a/c clutch kit though, not entire ass-y. they do sell those. I had to deal with this when clutch bearing went bad on our Mitsu Expo LRV. everyone wanted to sell me $400 comp. I disassembled clutch, yanked that bearing out, and local guys at one of the Hermitage, TN, parts stores matched the bearing. $6 fix. hammered it back in and that was it.


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## noquacks

Hmmmm, good tip, UK. WHow is my pulley staying in place? I remember studying how to remove pulley/clutch, and theres suposed to be a snap ring holding it in, right? Isnt the pulley pressed on? Shouldnt that force and snap ring keep it on? Heres a picture:


http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb367/noquacks/?action=view¤t=000_0074-1.jpg


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## noquacks

see post #8 in below link to honda forum:
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=144315

it says to first remove nut, then snap ring, then use a puller to remove pulley (inner clutch?)


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## D-rock

noquacks said:


> see post #8 in below link to honda forum:
> http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=144315
> 
> it says to first remove nut, then snap ring, then use a puller to remove pulley (inner clutch?)



That is correct, small bolt holds outer friction plate on, clip then holds on pulley which after clip removal may or may not need forced off (you will have to wait and see) then another clip holds coil assembly onto compressor.

You cant just buy a used outer friction plate and replace the missing bolt, just to see if it engages and runs ok?

note; small shims go under the friction plate to make correct gap for clutch/plate clearance


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## ukrkoz

yep, if you look at the last sentence in my 1st post, I did mention "and be prepared for locking spring inside too." I totally forgot what the technical term for it is though. snap ring. reason I asked is you are now driving with a pulley that stays there on its honest word. 
here's a practical suggestion. find out is 2001 was produced without a/c. if yes, your luck, and buy belt for no a/c option engine. as a result, you are not taking chances of pulley coming off, along with belt. if you have separate a/c belt - amen, simply take it off. 
keep in mind, your a/c wants to turn on every time you have blower set to defrost/defog. you prolly also want to disconnect a/c harness plug too.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/320785931979?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


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## noquacks

D-rock said:


> That is correct, small bolt holds outer friction plate on, clip then holds on pulley which after clip removal may or may not need forced off (you will have to wait and see) then another clip holds coil assembly onto compressor.
> 
> You cant just buy a used outer friction plate and replace the missing bolt, just to see if it engages and runs ok?
> 
> note; small shims go under the friction plate to make correct gap for clutch/plate clearance


Right. Now, you said "you CANT just buy........", you meant, I feel, "you CAN just buy......" and try it, right? Thats what Im hoping to locate- just the friction outer plate/shims/9mm nut.


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## noquacks

ukrkoz said:


> yep, if you look at the last sentence in my 1st post, I did mention "and be prepared for locking spring inside too." I totally forgot what the technical term for it is though. snap ring. reason I asked is you are now driving with a pulley that stays there on its honest word.
> here's a practical suggestion. find out is 2001 was produced without a/c. if yes, your luck, and buy belt for no a/c option engine. as a result, you are not taking chances of pulley coming off, along with belt. if you have separate a/c belt - amen, simply take it off.
> keep in mind, your a/c wants to turn on every time you have blower set to defrost/defog. you prolly also want to disconnect a/c harness plug too.
> 
> http://compare.ebay.com/like/320785931979?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


Thanks, UK. Man, youre working too on Thanksgiving....LOL!! Well, Im sure glad. hey, that link may be a good choice if I fail to locate a used plate/shims/nut. But, geez, I just cant see how a pulley held by snap ring can "wiggle' off. Guess theres always the chance. Now, its not so easy you know, to remove a serpentine from a TIGHT civic. Those cars are murder to work on. But, I will call AZ to see if they do stock such a belt, for the heck of it.

Dont eat too much today.


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## ukrkoz

hah, am actually driving to see a patient next. will be half day project. 
snap rings are not walls. you have very little contact surface to hold anything in place. just my 2 cents. and a lot of tension on pulley.
does it have separate a/c belt? guess not, if you calling AZ. 
yes, Japanese cars are made for masochists with tiny hands. but if you figure out how to do it initially, they are very easy to do over. 
do you have comp access from the bottom, through tire well? that's a life saver in many cases.


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## D-rock

First off, 01' Civic's have three belts (minus timing belt), one alt, one p.s., and one a/c, so just remove that a/c belt if you need to. The snap ring does all the holding for the pulley, losing the outer plate will have no effect. The outer friction plate bolts onto the center hub with that little bolt, the center hub turns the compressor when activated, and free spins when not. So the pulley has to spin at all times, which means it is fixed to the outer body of the compressor. Also the inside of the pulley has a bearing which is tightly fit to the hub (how all bearings work) and that is where all the pressure is, on the bearing. There isn't much if any pressure to pull the pulley out away from the compressor, the snap rings holds it just fine.


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## cjm94

As long as the bearing is good you can run it as is with no worries until you can afford to fix it right. It is basically just an idler pulley now with the clutch plate off. I have removed the clutch plate for a few customers who's compressors seized so they could save up to repair properly.


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## noquacks

More good tips- and encouragement. UK, AZ is closed today. for the record.

But, with the tip from D, yes, there are seperate belts down there (I actually remember working down there 2 yrs ago when putting on these belts!). But, since DG offered the assurance it wont fall off, I'll keep it there for the time being (which wont be more than say, a month).


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## noquacks

D-rock said:


> First off, 01' Civic's have three belts (minus timing belt), one alt, one p.s., and one a/c, so just remove that a/c belt if you need to. The snap ring does all the holding for the pulley, losing the outer plate will have no effect. The outer friction plate bolts onto the center hub with that little bolt, the center hub turns the compressor when activated, and free spins when not. So the pulley has to spin at all times, which means it is fixed to the outer body of the compressor. Also the inside of the pulley has a bearing which is tightly fit to the hub (how all bearings work) and that is where all the pressure is, on the bearing. There isn't much if any pressure to pull the pulley out away from the compressor, the snap rings holds it just fine.


So, D, maybe your explanation will sink in my head easier- when the coil is activated/charged with current, is it the outer plate that moves toward the comp or the inner moving toward the outer plate? Cuz, isnt the outer plate bolted on tight to the shaft that is rock solid stationary since its basically the crank shaft?


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## ukrkoz

Alexander Pope: [a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing]

D-Rock, you are IT now. 

NQ, it's your call. there was some, LIKELY NOT GOOD reason, that plate fell off. personally, I have never ever heard of that "just happening". you want to rely on snap ring and bearing - fine. belt costs about 10 bucks, and takes about a minute to cut it off, if you don't want to mess with removal. if that pulley comes off, and belt flies in between the other 2 belts, and it's prolly the one BEHIND them anyway, not gonna be 10 bucks in repairs. 

*Warning:* The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. DIYChatroom.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any home improvement task!

just trying to scare you, bro. on my book - not worth taking chances.
​


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## ukrkoz

noquacks said:


> So, D, maybe your explanation will sink in my head easier- when the coil is activated/charged with current, is it the outer plate that moves toward the comp or the inner moving toward the outer plate? Cuz, isnt the outer plate bolted on tight to the shaft that is rock solid stationary since its basically the crank shaft?


exactly. bolted onto the shaft. so something slides somewhere, right? even just a bit.. say, like brake pads.


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## noquacks

OK, UK, I know youre just looking out for me, and no sarcasm/joke- but I know you well enough youre advising the best you can, and really care. Now, I am scared (lol). OK, as soon as I can, its AZ for a belt (maybe tomorrow, gotta kill time somehow). Who needs a biger mess than what Ive got now.

(going to a buddy to eat turkey now- kinda late, but still should taste good)

Thanks, Bro.


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## noquacks

Finally got a used comp that I was hoping to scavenge the clutch plate/nut. BUT, tonight, I tried it and dang- apparently, the splined end of the shaft has been kinda damaged/chewed up from weeks of it jiggling around until it finally fell of on the road. Oh well- just as well cuz the clutch bearing is also "bent" where you can see the balls inside even!!

So, gonna remove compressor, and install new one from junk yard. Its a chance, I know. So, what can one do on a bench with a junk yard comp to check it out? Its a scroll comp. With a thermal protector (is that the same as a diode?). Can I at least verify the wiring to the magnet works by connecting it to a 12v battery, and activating it? Should one "see" the clutch move toward the outer plate, people? Also, I will brake clean the innards then also, need to add proper amt of oil. 

Thnaks!


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## ukrkoz

Thanks man. Better safe than sorry. **** flying all over engine compartment is no good to encounter.
I jumped 12V on a/c comps before, never really had any trouble, and did it on on a car and with engine running. 
it should go from free spin to lock. if you are benching it, you should feel it from hand. you may not see it. free spin - lock. I don't think you'll be able to turn compressor by hand, ha-ha. 
as of t. protection - know nothing. 
we de-seized several compressors back in times, so one thing I know for sure - before you turn it, you oil it. or it'll seize in about 10 seconds. you can hand crank it with socket wrench via center bolt, I am not aware of them being directional. so you crank and add oil, crank and add oil.. it slowly sucks it in and lubes itself. 
oh man.. now you have to purge the system, vacuum it, and refill... and it has to be just the right weight added, or it will not work.. have fun and god speed.


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## noquacks

Dont worry, UK, I now al aout weight/vac, etc etc etc . Just stuck on this coil now, maybe have to pull off pulley/reinstall onto other comp with a press. Fuuuuuun!

OK, so I put on 12v and got just a wimpy quiet click- the entire circumference of the plate did nOT mate nicely to the pulley face end. Then, I tested for ohms at the red/blk wires about 2-3" from actual coil, and got infinity!! Indicates bad coil, unless I wa supposed to probe right AT the coil itself(?)

I appreciate your persistent support on this challenging project!


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## ukrkoz

swap out coils?
take clutch plate off one you just bought and try it out on the OEM one and see how it behaves? You can install plate back well enough to try that, right? not saying permanent install.
That's me. Otherwise, I am very dumm electrically, only basic stuff. 
I'll pm you with something.


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## noquacks

ukrkoz said:


> swap out coils?
> take clutch plate off one you just bought and try it out on the OEM one and see how it behaves? You can install plate back well enough to try that, right? not saying permanent install.
> That's me. Otherwise, I am very dumm electrically, only basic stuff.
> I'll pm you with something.


I PM'd reply.....

Yes, swap out coils (and thermal protector switches too, cuz apparently this ones bad). I cant just put on this clutch plate on thre OEM (car) one cuz , I thought I mentionedbefore, but, the spline is aparently chewed up on the car's comp shaft, and the plate center is splined. . You see, now with a bad spline, the whole comp is shot- only the magnet/pulley is still salvageable, Im guesing. Thans wghy now, Im looking at trying my luck with this junk yard comp, which appears to be good except for the clutch magnet, which is showuiing infinity on the ohms. 3.5-4 Ohms is spec. 

Time to go in the garage- just finished lunch , got the free loaner clutch puller from AZ just an hour ago........


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## noquacks

OK, bumped out the pulley no problem. No ned for the usless AZ puller kit. Now, magnet had clip DEEP inside. Mt cheapo AZ clip pliers are also useless. Need my buddy now to unclip this, and I assume magnet pops right out without having to yank the bearing.


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## ukrkoz

1. busted spline can be mended. a good file will do it. you prolly mostly looking at some burrs to shave. all you need is to put it on and check how it grabs to the pulley
2. now that you gone so far - yeah, just take everything apart. I had same ordeal removing that snap ring on my Chrysler LeBaron. Yoou could use 2 awls to compress snap ring. all it takes is to pop at least some of it out of the grove, then even screwdriver works. be honest, I just make suitable tools in cases like this, I am very good with grinder and bending metals. I have multi snap ring removing tool, with some 5-6 heads, but I agree, it's very limited use. narrow flat head scredrive to secure ring in place + long needle nose pliers, to grab ring's end and pul it out works well too.


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## noquacks

ukrkoz said:


> 1. busted spline can be mended. a good file will do it. you prolly mostly looking at some burrs to shave. all you need is to put it on and check how it grabs to the pulley
> 2. now that you gone so far - yeah, just take everything apart. I had same ordeal removing that snap ring on my Chrysler LeBaron. Yoou could use 2 awls to compress snap ring. all it takes is to pop at least some of it out of the grove, then even screwdriver works. be honest, I just make suitable tools in cases like this, I am very good with grinder and bending metals. I have multi snap ring removing tool, with some 5-6 heads, but I agree, it's very limited use. narrow flat head scredrive to secure ring in place + long needle nose pliers, to grab ring's end and pul it out works well too.


Right. Now, that idea of the awl is a good one- I will try it but remain cautious as the ring is DEEP inside the magnet- and narrow wall to work in down there, if I make myself clear, dunno. UK, thats a neat idea to file off the burs on that spline, but I should have mentioned that the big issue is that the bearing is visibly bent/exposing the balls. Thats what really made me decide to yank the car's comp and swap the magnets. At worst, I will file the burs until the splines fit, then get a new bearing, press it in, and that will alow me to utilize the original comp! Junkyard comp may be good, I feel, but it IS ugly!! LOL


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## ukrkoz

you not gonna merry it, right?
yes, I know very well - done it twice - how narrow that channel is. like I said - as far as you get one end of it out of the groove, you golden. so you can grab on one end and yank it out. trick is to prevent it from spinning, they do tend to do so, hence narrow long screwdriver to help with that. it's no more than 1.5 inch deep, right?
reason I even mentioned mending anything is simply to test out componetry by interchanging them.


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## noquacks

A miracle! Buddy put his $125 multi meter on the coil and it is a GOOD coil!!!! Yippeeeeee! (lesson- dont trust Harbor Freight meters)

So, now I will remove the good clutch backing from orig comp, press it on the newly aqcuired comp, put on the good thermo switch (orig comp) , and just swap comps! Already got the comp out of the car- its happening, guys!!!!


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## ukrkoz

ha-ha, inception time







11-22-2011, 12:39 AM

Happy Holidays, buddy.


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## noquacks

ukrkoz said:


> ha-ha, inception time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11-22-2011, 12:39 AM
> 
> Happy Holidays, buddy.


Merry Christmas to you too, ol bud! Santa Clause came early!! Yipeeeeeeee! AC is put together, AND charged it, AND blows c-c-c-co-o-o-old!!

Cool, man. Too much. Now, keeping fingers crossed- I doubt it, but never know if a leak is generated. New O rings, of course. I will monitor it over the next few weeks/months.

Thanks to all here, esp UK.


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## ukrkoz

Happy Holidays, bruda. 'twas good ride. just make sure you added enough a/c oil. :wink::yes:


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## noquacks

Yup, just to confirm- added 2 oz of PAG 46. (removed one only 1oz). Its usually a guessing game, this oil thing.


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