# electric motor cross reference



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

Gents,
Can any one tell me if there is a web site where I can cross reference an older electric motor part number... or where I can actually purchase an older electric motor (P/N: 5KCP39FG R251S)
Thank You,
Mark


----------



## 300zx (May 24, 2009)

Are you sure the part number is correct.Can't find any thing with that number.


----------



## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

That's most likely a GE motor. Part numbers are very hard to cross-reference. A lot of them belong to the manufacturer of the equipment that the motor is installed in. Also known as 'OEM numbers'. 

If the motor has a frame number, (like 48 or 56), it will interchange with any other motor of the same frame. If there are letters along with the frame number, they could be important. 

Any letter in front of a frame number means nothing. A 56 frame is identical to a B56. Letters following the frame number are important. 

C = face mount. A race is machined on the shaft end, and it's designed to be bolted to a similar race on the driven machine.

H = Used on 56 frames, it means that there are a set of mounting holes at 3", and at 5". 

J = Close-coupled pump. The shaft is threaded, and there's a race to mount the motor directly to the pump frame. The impeller threads onto the shaft. Usually found from 1/3 HP up to 50 HP. 

T or U = These are standard mounting and shaft dimensions established by NEMA. U frames are older, T frames are more modern. Usually found from 1 HP to about 350 HP. 

Y = Non-standard mounting. Usually found on pedestal fans and the like. 

Z = Non-standard shaft. Usually a 56Z frame has a 1/2" shaft, 5/8" is standard. 56HZ usually has a 7/8" shaft, the 3" & 5" mounting holes. 

If the motor is not a standard frame, it'll be hard to find a replacement that fits. 

The standard frame sizes are 42, 48, 56, 143, 145, 182, 184, 213, 215, etc. Since a 215 frame is usually 10 HP, and this is a DIY site........I really didn't see any need to include something like 300 HP 447T frame!

Rob


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Try any of these manufacturer web sites below. They all have cross reference tools. As Rob stated above, many motors are proprietary to a certain company. Look hard at the name plate for any other numbers that might give us a hint as to the frame. If you get the wrong frame it will not fit where the old motor did. That for sure is a GE part number. Try calling GE first to find out if it's proprietary. If it is, ask them for the phone number of the owner. Then get a price from them.
Write down EVERYTHING on the nameplate. Rob or myself can see if the frame number is hidden in a bigger number, or a combination of numbers and letters. It could be in the serial number for example. So post all the nameplate information.

www.baldor.com
www.wegelectric.com

Both of these web sites have cross reference tools on board.


----------



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

*thank you*

Gentlemen,
Thank you for a very timely and thorough response. The motor is a GE motor and it comes out of a Trane AC unit driving the fan on the outside cooling unit. I will first try the cross reference web sites. I attempted the same last night with others, with no success. If I don't have any further success today I will get some more information from the motor and impose on you for more assistance.
Thank you again...
Mark


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

markdcoco said:


> a Trane AC unit driving the fan on the outside cooling unit.


Get a motor that's designed for the high amb. temp. air that this motor will be seeing.
Motor life halves for each 10C rise above ambient.


----------



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

*GE Motor Info*

Gents,
Thank you for all of your inputs. I have had no success trying to cross reference my motor, but have gotten the following information from the motor (from a Trane XE1000 AC Unit (circa '95)):

P/N: 5KCP39FG R251S
CPN: C140267P01
CL B INS CONT AIR OVER
THERMALLY PROTECTED
HZ = 60
PH = 1
RPM = 1075
HP = 1/5
V = 200-230
A = 1.5

Here is another number on it which I don't know is of any significance:
952690006323

There is a four (4) bolt mount on the back side. Not sure what the shaft diameter or length is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mark


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

markdcoco said:


> CL B INS CONT AIR OVER
> THERMALLY PROTECTED
> HZ = 60
> PH = 1
> ...


If you know the shaft diameter and rotation direction Grainger can probably set you up with an electrically, and maybe even mechanically, equivalent drop-in replacement. You can go 1/5 hp or slightly larger.
Tell them the shaft has to be vertical. It supposedly makes a difference in the bearing construction.

Table 430.248 (table 9.2 in this link) is more pessimistic about the current draw for a motor this size
http://books.google.com/books?id=DD...X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA123,M1
which makes me think, again, that the NEC uses 95th percentile values.

This motor is already only 50% efficient.


----------



## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

Post this on the HVAC forum. There's a few guys over there that work on these units regularly, they know more about HVAC motors than the rest of us.

Rob


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> If you know the shaft diameter and rotation direction Grainger can probably set you up with an electrically, and maybe even mechanically, equivalent drop-in replacement. You can go 1/5 hp or slightly larger.
> Tell them the shaft has to be vertical. It supposedly makes a difference in the bearing construction.
> 
> Table 430.248 (table 9.2 in this link) is more pessimistic about the current draw for a motor this size
> ...


Grainger help select a proprietary motor replacement? You must not deal with Grainger very much. They cannot help anyone. You could call Burger King. Grainger sells parts and equipment. They help know one.

OP. You only have two options. 1, Call the manufacturer and order from them. 2, get a set of calipers and measure all the frame dimensions to see what you actually have. You also have a 6 pole motor. This even further complicates.


----------



## gillespj (Jun 27, 2009)

Hey I need one of those motors to,mine is starting to make noise every so offten. Did you have any luck finding a replacment ,if so please let me know. I live near the I-17 and Happy Valley


----------



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

*AC Motor Replacement*

The guys at Grainger crossed it to a Dayton 4M205G ($70) and the matching 5uF capacitor ($5). This is a four wire motor vs. the three wire GE I replaced. I wasted an hour attempting to wire it in using the three wire option with no success, but then chose the four wire installation and was done in five minutes. Works great. Beats the $400 I was quoted by a local AC company.
Mark


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Good job. This just serves as a lesson on specialty motors. They try to make it where you have to go to them for the replacement. I am surprised Grainger was able to help. In my dealings with them, no part number no part.


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

J. V. said:


> I am surprised Grainger was able to help. In my dealings with them, no part number no part.


Better reply. It avoids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation


----------



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

*Grainger*

I personally have never had a problem. Used them extensively to engineer repairs for some very old aerospace training equipment and always found them helpful. Saved my bacon this time. Part number was worthless. Gave them the specs from the motor label and they gave me a solution.


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

markdcoco said:


> I personally have never had a problem. Used them extensively to engineer repairs for some very old aerospace training equipment and always found them helpful. Saved my bacon this time. Part number was worthless. Gave them the specs from the motor label and they gave me a solution.


Good to hear some positive remarks concerning Grainger, since I have zero positive comments regarding them. :no:
Things must be different with Grainger. I have never received any assistance from them on a technical level. I have never had them successfully cross a motor unless they knew exactly what it was and had a part number for it. Did Grainger come out and measure the frame for you? No. They crossed it against the information you gave them and sent you a new motor. Since it was an every day HVAC motor, that could have been the diferrence. Try a P base pump motor with a proprietary label and they would be scratching their head. They will not know what a "P" base is. :huh:
I will say that the tech support team is much better than first contact customer service rep. Most of them were selling washing machines or computers last week. :yes:

Defamation? How can it be when it's true. Opinions are welcomed in any format. IMHO.


----------



## markdcoco (Jun 16, 2009)

As you say, everyone's experience is different. My motor issue was fairly simple. Over the phone I was directed towards a significantly more expensive motor which I didn't need. I walked into the local office and worked with a very smart man there who got me exactly what I needed. Nothing complicated here in AZ as AC motors burn up all the time and there were several other people at the counter with significantly less information than I had attempting to buy replacements. But he did take the time and had the smarts to get it right the first time.


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

markdcoco said:


> As you say, everyone's experience is different. My motor issue was fairly simple. Over the phone I was directed towards a significantly more expensive motor which I didn't need. I walked into the local office and worked with a very smart man there who got me exactly what I needed. Nothing complicated here in AZ as AC motors burn up all the time and there were several other people at the counter with significantly less information than I had attempting to buy replacements. But he did take the time and had the smarts to get it right the first time.


To bad we do not have that type of help here. The counter people know nothing. I always had to call tech support for minimal assistance. Thats why I use a motor shop. They usually do not like to fool around with HVAC fractional's as replacing is always cheaper than repairing them.

We have another place here that specializes in fractional HVAC motors and controls and will work directly with the public. If I need a motor like this, I just bring the old one in and they find the replacement. They usually have it in stock.


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

J. V. said:


> Defamation? How can it be when it's true.


Yes.
"The most important defense to an action for defamation is "truth", which is an absolute defense to an action for defamation."
The problem is,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
is on you to prove that they have never helped anyone.

There may even be some doctrine where, even if it is true, your intent was to defame rather than bring to light some useful truth. 
Ms. Leah, you can step in here anytime you want to


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> Yes.
> "The most important defense to an action for defamation is "truth", which is an absolute defense to an action for defamation."
> The problem is,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
> ...


I have serious concerns about you. Have you seen a doctor lately? A shrink? If you can TRY to turn a conversation about cross referencing motors into a legal conversation, you are in the wrong place. :whistling2:


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

J. V. said:


> I have serious concerns about you. Have you seen a doctor lately? A shrink? If you can TRY to turn a conversation about cross referencing motors into a legal conversation, you are in the wrong place. :whistling2:


I used to be a doctor but there was no money in it, so 
I became a lawyer but there was no money in it, so
I became a shrink but there was no money in it, so
. . .

But I do thank you for your concern.:thumbsup:

Finding one's "place" in the world is a worthy endeavor. If I ever do I'll send you a postcard (from whatever place that is. . .):laughing: The problem is, half the males my age will be dead in 18 years, so my time is running out!


----------



## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> I used to be a doctor but there was no money in it, so
> I became a lawyer but there was no money in it, so
> I became a shrink but there was no money in it, so
> . . .
> ...


:laughing: Now that sounds like a sane person. You know I meant no disrespect friend. :thumbsup:


----------



## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

J. V. said:


> Now that sounds like a sane person.


Cured in less than 24 hours! Truly, psychotropic drugs nowadays work miracles!


----------



## norohs (Jan 13, 2010)

Mark, I know this post is old, but I wanted to thank you for posting your findings from Granger. Mine went out this week too. Granger had the motor for $59.95 (commercial discount).

Thanks buddy!:thumbup:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

nothing special about it anyplace that sells refrigiration parts or even most appliance parts places stock those motors.biggest thing is tell them its a 240v condensing fan motor and what the speed and hp are.


----------



## anhth (Jul 7, 2011)

I am replacing the GE motor with the one (Dayton) Markdcoco did.
Can somebody post a wiring diagram. 3-wire vs. 4-wire please?


----------



## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Whatever happened to *Yoyizit*? He used to post frequently?


----------



## MOTORGUY (Jul 13, 2011)

anhth said:


> I am replacing the GE motor with the one (Dayton) Markdcoco did.
> Can somebody post a wiring diagram. 3-wire vs. 4-wire please?


Usually a 3 -wire has a brown, a black and a white.

Black is the line and should go to your contactor. Brown will go to one side of the run capacitor (either side). The white and the other side of the line go to the opposite side of the cap.

A four wire is really a 3 wire with an extra common (brown with white stripe). The alternative connection would be brown to cap, brown(with white stripe) other side of cap. Black to voltage, WHITE DIRECTLY TO OTHER SIDE OF VOLTAGE _ DO NOT CONNECT TO CAP.

On a four wire, you can eliminate the brown/white strip and follow the 3 wire connection above. It will work fine. The white and the brown/white strip are actually the same lead!


----------



## sjsunny (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks Motorguy!

Not to bump an older thread, but I am planning on replacing my motor, it went out I believe based on the noise that I can hear and the fact that it won't spin while the compressor is engaging and drawing heat that I can feel when hovering over the unit.

In terms of the Motor Run Capacitors, would I be using the same set up with the motor from Granger or would I need to purchase something different?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## porttownsend119 (Sep 17, 2014)

*Cross Reference*

I use XREF Encyclopedia and I show these specs:

1/5 HP, 208-230v, 1.5a, 1075 RPM, 1 speed, Open Dripproof, Thermally Protected, PSC, 48 frame, 1-1/4" Stack, Aluminum Endshield, 

I show it as a replacement for a Trane C140267P01 so it may work both ways...don't have specs on the Trane one to compare.

A D720 Fasco should work too - since I don't know what direction the rotation is, I picked the D720 because it's reversible

And it crosses to:
442 and 500 Universal Electric Motors
D719 Fasco
FS1026S AO Smith (Higher HP Than D720 to meet amp draw)
3M666 Grainger
3328 GE (03328 Mars)
8861 Emerson
X216 Marathon


----------

