# is this RCA - Asphalt Driveway Installation



## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi, new member here. I feel like I am being taken for a ride by my contractors.
They are installing a new driveway, and after they put down what they call "RCA" I began to get suspicious.

imgur.com/kY9Cw5s,FtsG79S

It looks nothing like what comes up in google searches, and more like dirt with bits of rock and brick.

Is this the right stuff? They said to drive on it for a week or so, and they will re-grade and compact it after the masons put in the Belgian Block.

Also, some parts of the ground are soft, like a sponge. Is this going to settle okay?

Some expert insight is appreciated.

Thanks!


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## rustyjames (Jul 20, 2008)

RCA=Recycled Concrete Aggragate and there's different grades, some is DOT approved, but some isn't.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

If it were mine they wouldn't be doing any paving on spongy ground.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

They said to give it time to let the moisture evaporate out and it will no longer be spongy.

My concern is, what if it rains down the line? Won't it get spongy again?
They assure me that it won't happen...


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

It is difficult to tell from photo. If there are chunks of concrete in it, it is probably RCA. It looks like it is very fine(small granules). I have never seen it get spongy but it might be the ground underneath that is spongy. The RCA makes a good base after it is compacted.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

Robpo said:


> It is difficult to tell from photo. If there are chunks of concrete in it, it is probably RCA. It looks like it is very fine(small granules). I have never seen it get spongy but it might be the ground underneath that is spongy. The RCA makes a good base after it is compacted.


Thanks for the info.

As you suggested, the ground beneath it is what I believe is the culprit. 

But do they need to: 

A. Dig deeper to get to solid ground

or 

B. Just wait until it firms up?


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

chairmanme0w said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> As you suggested, the ground beneath it is what I believe is the culprit.
> 
> ...


Either way. I have seen times when digging deeper didn't help(about 3' deeper). It is probably better to wait.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

The 1st thing I would do is ask them where they got the RCA in what grade it is. I'm betting that they will kind of sputter and not give you a straight answer! That certainly looks a lot more like dirt than it does RCA. RCA is normally about the color of concrete and is the consistency of fine gravel in most cases. The spongy spot will most likely have to be excavated deeper, filled with #3's (large stone gravel) compacted and then top with finer stone.


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## landfillwizard (Feb 21, 2014)

Have the contractor place geotextile fabric in the bottom of the excavation prior to placing the fill. Have them use a 6 oz or 8 oz fabric. If they don't know what you are talking about get another contractor. We used 12 0z fabric under the roads at the landfill i worked at. We then placed 12" of oversized stone on top of the fabric and were able to drive 50 ton loads of garbage over the roads without road failure. Once the base material is placed over the fabric and thoroughly compacted, you won't have any problems with settlement. Also if possible add some sort of drainage away from the base material.


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

landfillwizard said:


> Have the contractor place geotextile fabric in the bottom of the excavation prior to placing the fill. Have them use a 6 oz or 8 oz fabric. If they don't know what you are talking about get another contractor. We used 12 0z fabric under the roads at the landfill i worked at. We then placed 12" of oversized stone on top of the fabric and were able to drive 50 ton loads of garbage over the roads without road failure. Once the base material is placed over the fabric and thoroughly compacted, you won't have any problems with settlement. Also if possible add some sort of drainage away from the base material.


That is what I was going to suggest but it might be over kill for a driveway or maybe not.


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## landfillwizard (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't think so. If there is a problem with the underlying area being unstable, the geotextile fabric will greatly stabilize the subgrade base interface.


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

landfillwizard said:


> I don't think so. If there is a problem with the underlying area being unstable, the geotextile fabric will greatly stabilize the subgrade base interface.


 I have only seen it used once. I was working in a new home development and we were getting ready to pave the roads. The base was down but there was this one mushy spot. They dug it deeper and put 3inch rocks and it was still mushy dug it deeper and put more rocks and still mushy. Finally dug it out and put the fabric down and back filled and it was fine.


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## landfillwizard (Feb 21, 2014)

I have seen it used hundreds of times. I was the instigator for putting under the roads of the landfill. There was always pieces of geotextile or liner material left over from projects used to build our liner construction. We began using it under the roadways on top of the landfill under our road building material. It was unbelievable how the road ways held up. Before using the geotextile our roads would disappear into the garbage. After we began to use fabric we could actually remove the road building material and use it in other roads. 

After i retired I went to work as a construction inspector. When there was an unstable area in construction of roads or parking lots, I would tell the contractor of my experiences with geotextile and have him explain it to the client that it would be less expensive to pay for the geotextile than over excavating unstable areas and add more gravel. I have been back to these areas since and found them to have held up very well!


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks for the info, guys.

Well, the guys are coming back out for a third time tomorrow for their last shot at fixing the soft RCA.

If this doesn't fix it, I'll suggest the geotxtile fabric, but I doubt these guys will know what that is based on the experience thus far. I've already communicated that I will be asking for my deposit back if tomorrow doesn't work out.

it's been 15 days since I posted that video, and the ground is still soft. 
It's beyond ridiculous.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

BTW, I've posted a video on youtube of how soft the RCA is... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1m0vZ_5Lpg


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

I have never seen rca do that. The ground under it must be saturated.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

I think the RCA is doing that because they didn't put down enough of it. 
Also, there's hardly any rock/concrete material in the problem area; It's all dirt/mud.
There is barely an inch of new material where the soft spot is. The other areas that are 6" of RCA have great drainage (dries quickly after rain) and is pretty compacted after driving on it a while.


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## landfillwizard (Feb 21, 2014)

These soft area will need to be over-excavated to find the source of water in the subgrade. There may be organic materials holding water or a source of soil that is holding water, but they have to be removed. I have seen this many times while working as a construction inspector. The area of unstable soil will be removed at least 1 foot deep and expose an area of stable base. I have found if you place geotextile in the bottom this will bridge the area of instability. Replace the soil with -1" crusher run stone and compact thoroughly. From what I saw in the video, I would excavate an area approximately 6' squarre 1 foot deep and see what you find.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

landfillwizard said:


> These soft area will need to be over-excavated to find the source of water in the subgrade. There may be organic materials holding water or a source of soil that is holding water, but they have to be removed. I have seen this many times while working as a construction inspector. The area of unstable soil will be removed at least 1 foot deep and expose an area of stable base. I have found if you place geotextile in the bottom this will bridge the area of instability. Replace the soil with -1" crusher run stone and compact thoroughly. From what I saw in the video, I would excavate an area approximately 6' squarre 1 foot deep and see what you find.


Well, they showed up (an hour later than promised) on Wednesday and did exactly this.
I think they were unhappy that this was their 3rd time back for this job, but they were determined to not come back again, so he went about 12” deep and dumped 8 yards of RCA into the excavated area.
“You want RCA? I’ll give you f****** RCA.”
I let that unprofessional comment roll right off my shoulder. At least it shows that they _do_ know how to do the job right. :thumbsup:
It rained last night, I don’t know exactly how much, but the driveway isn’t pooling water like it was before… Good sign.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

Just out of curiosity, what is the typical soil content of RCA?
I tried to look it up online, but I'm guessing there is Civil Engineering grade which has standards, and just regular plain RCA which isn't regulated. since it's a small residential job, I'm not expecting the job to be preformed like they would on a 4 lane highway, but I want to make sure i'm not getting shoddy work either!

A friend is having their driveway done (lives a few town over), and their RCA has almost zero loose soil in the mix. My RCA, as you can see from the video has lots more soil. Is there "cheap" RCA, or shady practices where the stuff is cut with soil, or the screening process is skipped?


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

chairmanme0w said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the typical soil content of RCA?
> I tried to look it up online, but I'm guessing there is Civil Engineering grade which has standards, and just regular plain RCA which isn't regulated. since it's a small residential job, I'm not expecting the job to be preformed like they would on a 4 lane highway, but I want to make sure i'm not getting shoddy work either!
> 
> A friend is having their driveway done (lives a few town over), and their RCA has almost zero loose soil in the mix. My RCA, as you can see from the video has lots more soil. Is there "cheap" RCA, or shady practices where the stuff is cut with soil, or the screening process is skipped?


RCA = recycled concrete aggregate. It is concrete dust and anything that is in the concrete. I don't think it is certified for roads but I think you can get it certified for fill.


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## chairmanme0w (Apr 21, 2014)

Robpo said:


> RCA = recycled concrete aggregate. It is concrete dust and anything that is in the concrete. I don't think it is certified for roads but I think you can get it certified for fill.


So it shouldn't have twigs and dirt???


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## Robpo (Mar 30, 2014)

chairmanme0w said:


> So it shouldn't have twigs and dirt???


 Shouldn't but I have seen all kinds of stuff. They pick it up with a loader and put it in crusher. I something else falls in it gets crushed too.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

chairmanme0w said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the typical soil content of RCA?
> I tried to look it up online, but I'm guessing there is Civil Engineering grade which has standards, and just regular plain RCA which isn't regulated. since it's a small residential job, I'm not expecting the job to be preformed like they would on a 4 lane highway, but I want to make sure i'm not getting shoddy work either!
> 
> A friend is having their driveway done (lives a few town over), and their RCA has almost zero loose soil in the mix. My RCA, as you can see from the video has lots more soil. Is there "cheap" RCA, or shady practices where the stuff is cut with soil, or the screening process is skipped?


Most of the RCA we get here is certified for state DOT base. Because of that, the places that take it in are VERY particular about what they take in. No garbage, debris, or dirt if they want any chance of getting it certified. And, in many cases, they can get more for it that way, so not much reason to let dirt enter into the mix. If I were to guess, I'd say there is less than 1-2% "dirt" in most of the RCA we purchase.......

On the other hand, I can think of one crusher that takes anything in and grinds it. You never know what you'll find, and it is cheap garbage fill, much like what shows in your video.......


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

I've never seen any type of recycled concrete or stone used for a subbase of a driveway that had anywhere near that much dirt in it! That just looks like they went and scooped it up out of a field someplace.


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