# Airtight recessed lights



## sluggermike (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm planning on putting some recessed lights in the ceiling. I noticed at HD that they have Airtight, IC, recessed lights and Airtight trim. What is the advantage of using the Airtight light fixtures?
Thanks


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## Andy in ATL (Aug 28, 2007)

Energy savings if used in a ceiling that butts up on the attic.


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## RippySkippy (Feb 9, 2007)

Airtights are "supposed" to seal the conditioned air on the inside of the dwelling from the unconditioned air outside (attic) the dwelling. I have a couple of friends that have them installed and question their effectiveness. No hard facts, just casual observations.


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## Piedmont (Nov 1, 2007)

Sometimes you need to match them. For example, Halo recessed lights their "air tight" trims usually must be installed in their "air tight" housings. Commercial Electric doesn't really have air tight cans, they just sell air tight trims. 

Recessed lights cause huge amounts of energy loss each, changing your lighting to them can cause your heating and cooling bills to skyrocket if this is being installed with an attic above. I install them whenever possible just to minimize energy loss, only time I don't install air tight was over my open porch. Even installing all air tight cans your heating & cooling bill will go up (but recessed lights are awesome!!!). Although they call them "Air Tight" or "Air Tite" and better than non they're leaky as all heck. The air tight cans (HALO) the gaskets are installed carelessly and usually improperly. The gaskets on their cans are often knocked off during shipment or people in the store tossing them back into the box will accidentally knock them off, the gaskets are glued and not particularly well, only a matter of time when the glue will fail and the gasket pop out or off. Often gaskets are adhered to the adjustment screw you slide up/down so making any adjustment causes those gaskets to pop off opening up air gaps. You also have to figure out how to seal the opening between the can and the ceiling, usually I use firestop caulking. 

The air tight cans are pretty pointless in my opinion, stick to air tight trims and Commercial Electric's are really rather good. They look like traffic cones you slide into the can, and have just 2 gaskets, the one where the light pulls down to which gets pinched into place... can't move etc. The other gasket is around the base of the trim which adhere's but also gets pinched and can't go anywhere. So, get an IC rated can, and Commercial Electrics air tight trim (again, looks like a traffic cone) and that system is probably 50x better than trying to get an air tight can to be air tight. Also, get yourself a recessed light hole saw to avoid the chance of accidentally making a portion of a hole too big to be covered and leaving a small air gap. Even the smallest of air gaps greatly increase energy use and a recessed light hole saw will not only make life easier on yourself it will most likely pay for itself in energy savings by avoiding gaps.


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## sluggermike (Sep 2, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Your responses were very informative.
Slugger


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## myheadspins (Jan 28, 2009)

I gave the solution of foam sealants and sealing trim rings to the person that ran my home through an energy audit and he gave me a better solution. He told me to forget the sealing the drywall and trim rings and put one stryrofoam cooler big enough to allow for 3+ clearance around each light and foam the cooler in place. The lights were barely visible in the infrared camera after this procedure. Before the sealing it was mind blowing how much heat I was tossing into the atmosphere. 

I can say my lights are really sealed now not just kind of and it wasn't a big deal after moving the insulation around so the coolers could sit right and be foamed correctly. I had to trim some but that wasn't too bad. The outside doors shut way different now without all the holes in the roof. I have IC lights.. I can't even imagine what the old ones would be like.


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## mferguson0414 (Jan 6, 2009)

wow, that is an awesome idea!


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## hagak (Jan 30, 2009)

So I went into my attic to see if the recessed cans in our bathrooms are IC rated. What do I find is that the previous home owner decided I guess not to get IC rated cans and just remove the baffle insulation from above the 2 bathrooms :furious:.

So my original plan was to buy some IC cans, however after coming across this post and seeing the use of a "beer cooler" to solve the problem as being a much easier and cheaper solution. If I make sure to have a min of 3" spacing on all sides is there any problem with this solution?

Note each bathroom has 6 6" cans, so I am guessing I am probably loosing a good bit of heat even if they were IC and the bathrooms had insulation.


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## sansom (Jan 25, 2010)

Yep, easiest is to order some styrofoam 'minnow' buckets. The kind fisherman use to store their bait.

An 8qt bucket is the perfect size and shape. They're about $2.19 each.

Chris


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## amyremodel (Feb 10, 2011)

I love the styrofoam bucket idea but don't know what to use to seal the bucket (caulk, expandable foam, etc)?

Any suggestion for sealing recessed can lights in cathedral ceiling? There is no room for a bucket over the can lights.


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## mem (Dec 15, 2010)

I use foil tape used for HVAC ducts (not duct tape!). I tape every seam on every box with this. I also use it to tape up holes and seams on switch and receptacle boxes on the outside walls. When installing vapor barrier I cut the openings about a quarter inch undersized to get a stretch fit around the box protrusions. I think I paid around twelve bucks for a roll but it goes pretty far in this application.


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## mheslep (Apr 6, 2011)

hagak said:


> So I went into my attic to see if the recessed cans in our bathrooms are IC rated. What do I find is that the previous home owner decided I guess not to get IC rated cans and just remove the baffle insulation from above the 2 bathrooms :furious:.
> 
> So my original plan was to buy some IC cans, however after coming across this post and seeing the use of a "beer cooler" to solve the problem as being a much easier and cheaper solution. If I make sure to have a min of 3" spacing on all sides is there any problem with this solution?
> 
> Note each bathroom has 6 6" cans, so I am guessing I am probably loosing a good bit of heat even if they were IC and the bathrooms had insulation.


This is a response to an old post - but some caution and rethinking is due for this solution. When adding an air tight / insulated enclosure to a _non_-IC light, the enclosure needs to be fire resistant. So drywall or duct board are fine, but a cheap styro cooler is not. A styro cooler over an _IC_ rated can is fine. The 3" spacing doesn't relieve you of the trouble, as the housing may well come loose over time and contact the can, melt and even drip into the can housing.


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## chumley12 (Jan 18, 2012)

mheslep said:


> This is a response to an old post - but some caution and rethinking is due for this solution. When adding an air tight / insulated enclosure to a _non_-IC light, the enclosure needs to be fire resistant. So drywall or duct board are fine, but a cheap styro cooler is not. A styro cooler over an _IC_ rated can is fine. The 3" spacing doesn't relieve you of the trouble, as the housing may well come loose over time and contact the can, melt and even drip into the can housing.


Much to my dismay, I find that I have a bunch of non-ic recessed lights that are leaking like a sieve. I am wondering if I could build a box out of the 2 in sheet insulation, that has aluminum foil on one side and make the box so the foil is on the inside and seal the box with fire retardant foam (I have seen references to it, but don't really know what it is. Some suggestions are to leave the top off of the surround, others say to seal it and some say to even seal the holes in the sides of the non-ic cans or to even replace them with ic cans, but they are not the perfect solution. I am so confused I don't know what to do. A licensed electrician installed all of the cans a number of years ago. Bummer.


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## brooker (Jan 22, 2012)

*1990 juno recessed inccandescent fixtures*

I have some 1990 juno ic 22 recessed lighting fixture....they are installed in ceiling with insulation...though they have various slots and holes in the cans...i assume that the slots and holes are for other applications...Can I tape them in an effort to reduce infiltration and exfilration????? Currently they have pink( Corning fiberglass) batt insulation around them...which actually does not surround the cans adequately (tightly)....I'm considering packing a loose fill fiberglass insulation ( Guardian e-z fill attic insulation) around them....there ic rated.....like the cooler type closure idea....what do you all think about taping the holes....brooker


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## SD515 (Aug 17, 2008)

Have you considered air-tight trims?


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## chumley12 (Jan 18, 2012)

*Air tight trims*

What are air tight trims? :wink:


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## chumley12 (Jan 18, 2012)

brooker said:


> I have some 1990 juno ic 22 recessed lighting fixture....they are installed in ceiling with insulation...though they have various slots and holes in the cans...i assume that the slots and holes are for other applications...Can I tape them in an effort to reduce infiltration and exfilration????? Currently they have pink( Corning fiberglass) batt insulation around them...which actually does not surround the cans adequately (tightly)....I'm considering packing a loose fill fiberglass insulation ( Guardian e-z fill attic insulation) around them....there ic rated.....like the cooler type closure idea....what do you all think about taping the holes....brooker


I have been told by an "reputable" electrician that you can just plug up the holes in the can with the aluminum tape and it would then a non-IC rated can would become an IC can, but from what I have read, that is not the end of the story. :wink:


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## brooker (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes, I will be looking for airtight trim....what do you think about taping small hole in can...I'm talking slivers of tape 3/8 x 1'' is the largest.....the big air leak was the whole house ceiling fan.... though recently made a cover...and what difference it makes.....in poking around in the attic I see there are slight gaps here and there.... I'm addressing those...


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## chumley12 (Jan 18, 2012)

brooker said:


> Yes, I well be looking for airtight trim....what do you think about taping small hole in can...I'm talking slivers of tape 3/8 x 1'' is the largest.....the big air leak was the whole house ceiling fan.... though recently made a cover...and what difference it makes.....in pocking around in attic I see there are slight gaps here and there.... I'm addressing those...


Yes. Plugging those holes will make a big difference. Looking at the Commercial Electric "Air-Tight IC cans at Home Depot, all they have done is put a piece of take over the holes in the side of the can. I can see how this would help reduce the loss of the conditioned air in the house, but I don't see how it then becomes an IC can where you are allowed by code to cover the can with insulation. Doesn't there have to be some sort of separation between the can, which gets pretty hot, and the insulation. Isn't that what the insulated box is for?


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## brooker (Jan 22, 2012)

best I can figure IC stands for insulation contact....the juno recessed light i have.... have a thermal senor on exterior of can..on the top...with plenty of trim and bulb combination posted on interior of can...as well... explains that over heating will result in blinking lights and so on....


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## chumley12 (Jan 18, 2012)

*Oregon's code re: recessed lighting*

I talked to the someone at the Oregon Energy Trust today and he suggested Air Tight Baffles to solve part of the problem of the air infiltration through the recessed ceiling lights with attic space above.

Here is the actual code requirement for non-IC cans in Oregon. I am sure other states have different requirements.

*"Existing recessed lights that are not IC-rated may be
found when ceiling insulation levels are increased as part
of a remodel. In these situations, a non-combustible baffle
must be used to keep insulation back and maintain a
three-inch fire clearance around the fixture. The top of the
fixture should either not be covered or maintain a 24-inch
clearance above the top fixture. Code does not require
replacement of existing non-IC rated lights in existing
buildings."*

So, it looks like an airtight baffle with a cone made of light sheet metal, foamed in place and left open on the top would solve the problem. Yes?


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## LightingGuyTexa (Mar 22, 2013)

*Several things....*

I am an electrician and Now work for a recessed lighting manufacturer.

1. I do not advise altering any openings in the fixture or creating your own barrier

2. The fixture has been tested & rated in a U.L. Registered lab for a specific use. If you alter the fixture you could void the U.L. Rating, which if by chance causes a fire could make you 100% at fault and no insurance coverage will be given

3. Making your own barrier can also create more heat than what is intended for the fixture. Each fixture has a thermal sensor and if overloaded will cause the fixture to no longer work, which means you would have to replace the fixture.

4. Your best bet overall is to replace the fixture with an IC remodel fixture. It is pretty simple to do yourself

Please call a licensed electrician if you are not up to the task!


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

myheadspins said:


> I gave the solution of foam sealants and sealing trim rings to the person that ran my home through an energy audit and he gave me a better solution. He told me to forget the sealing the drywall and trim rings and put one stryrofoam cooler big enough to allow for 3+ clearance around each light and foam the cooler in place. The lights were barely visible in the infrared camera after this procedure. Before the sealing it was mind blowing how much heat I was tossing into the atmosphere.
> 
> I can say my lights are really sealed now not just kind of and it wasn't a big deal after moving the insulation around so the coolers could sit right and be foamed correctly. I had to trim some but that wasn't too bad. The outside doors shut way different now without all the holes in the roof. I have IC lights.. I can't even imagine what the old ones would be like.


Neat idea, but I don't recall seeing a UL label on a styrofoam cooler. Maybe I am missing it.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

chumley12 said:


> I have been told by an "reputable" electrician that you can just plug up the holes in the can with the aluminum tape and it would then a non-IC rated can would become an IC can, but from what I have read, that is not the end of the story. :wink:


Ah h_ll no. COuld cause more problems then it is worth.


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## trekdc (Feb 28, 2016)

*Air tight recessed lights- Use newer LED fixtures?*

I am looking for any newer feedback on airtight recessed lightings.
I have installed over 20 LED 5 & 6" recessed fixtures from Home Depot. One brand is EnviroLite EVL6730BWH27; another is Commercial Electric T65 Recessed LED trim. These adapt to the existing can fixtures with a part that screws into the socket & connects to the LED trim light that fits into the opening & seals against the ceiling 
To ensure airtightness, I used silicone around the trim, & foam in the attic around the holes in the light cans, & around the base. I didn't see a heat issue since the LED units are 11 watt maximum output, & I use a dimmer to reduce the output, since they're so bright at maximum. Some of the light cans are IC rated, but most are not, & none are airtight. 
I didn't use these cardboard enclosures around the attic light cans, due to the hassle & added expense, once I installed the LED lights. 
I realize this is a highly unorthodox approach, but my concern is if there might be any possible safety issue anyone can see. 
My ultimate plan is to blow in additional insulation on top of the existing insulation, and completely cover all the light cans, which are not now covered
Any feed back is appreciated.


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## tommy16 (Mar 4, 2016)

in case of planing to place recessed lights on the top level of your home it is better to use airtight recessed lights to prevent cooled and heated air in your home from escaping to your attic.


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