# Power and signal wiring for wall mount flatscreen



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Just run Cat-6 for HDMI signal. Use the baluns for both ends, to allow you to hook up to the hdmi input on the tv, and hdmi output on your DVR or AV receiver, if planning on using it as a switching source.

As for low voltage, you should run all of it through "Smurf Tubing", when you pull the runs. Just plan everything out on paper first.

They do make "Octopus" cable, that includes two Cat-5e or Cat-6 cables, two RG-6u, and you can also get them with the extra wires for Speakers. It does make it thicker though.

Put up a list of all of the equipment you have, and a drawing of where the equipment will be located, and your route of the wiring.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Thanks; I wasn't thinking about running wiring and making my own connections for the HDMI or RG6 runs. Since I don't have the tools, I was planning to buy the right length of in-wall rated off-the-shelf cables. But taking a quick look at costs, it may after all cost less overall to buy the wiring components and get some cheap tools at Harbor Freight!

Right now our DVD player's best output is component, but since the player is already 10 years old, and that would be a lot of cabling for one device, I think I will just plan on getting a new DVD player shortly with HDMI and avoid running that big bundle.

I'll try to get a drawing and list together tonight.

Thanks,
Dante


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Do pull HDMI. Pull one Cat-6 for HDMI over Ethernet wiring. Another for Ethernet connection, if the tv is a Smart tv and has a RJ-45 LAN port. You really do not need RG-6, unless you plan on running component or sound to the tv.

I use a Vizio Sound bar with wireless Sub-woof, for all of our tv viewing. Connected to the DirecTV DVR. If it is Golf, Football, movies that are DVR'd, OnDemand, or streamed off of the Blu-Ray player. We use the Denon AVR-1612 that we have.

I found that having just the one connection from the AVR to the TV, works out really well. I have DirecTV for my tv provider. So I added their AM21N for OTA broadcasting.

Having a clean setup and using something as a A/V switcher for inputs. Is better than pulling a bunch of unneeded wire runs. Along with a Sound bar for audio output, when you do not want to run the Surround Sound System.


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## PaulBob (Dec 5, 2008)

dcentuori said:


> We just got a new 50" Vizio


While you're still probably within the return period, I just want to point out that the vizio brand of TV's are among the worst you can purchase.. 

They are non-repairable and have a high failure rate just after the warranty is up. (power supplies I think)
There was a big stink about them a year ago and as I recall, it came down to the simple fact that you purchase the cheapest tv on the shelf and take your chances.. 

After a lot of research, I decided to go with an LG as they had some of the highest ratings overall.. Most bang for your buck with the best warranty and least risk.. 

Just thought I would throw that in.. I strongly suggest you return it.. spend the extra $100 and get a name brand unit.. Everything I have ever bought from LG or Samsung or even Toshiba has been perfect..


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Actually.....:whistling2:


You haven't given enough information to be given the "right" answer.

What's the component list?

Where will the components be located?

What's the wiring distance from components to TV?


With this little bit of info, you can get the correct information.



As an aside:

HDMI over cat5e/6 is done with "extenders", not "baluns", and I wouldn't usually recommend a DIY'er try to make up the cables. It's just not that easy. Especially so since you cannot use the EZ RJ45's for this purpose.

However, you can purchase pre-made cat5e cables in length, and for a DIY'er this is what I'd recommend.

Honestly, if the distance between the TV ad the components is not that long, you should just get in wall rated HDMI cable/s and go that route.

You do not need to use the "smart TV" features, if you're going to use a new BluRay which will have the same capability, and do the job better, so the HDMI just makes more sense.

DO run an RG6 if you want to make use of the TV's off air tuner.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

PaulBob said:


> While you're still probably within the return period, I just want to point out that the vizio brand of TV's are among the worst you can purchase..
> 
> They are non-repairable and have a high failure rate just after the warranty is up. (power supplies I think)
> There was a big stink about them a year ago and as I recall, it came down to the simple fact that you purchase the cheapest tv on the shelf and take your chances..
> ...


Really do not get where you got the high failure rate on Vizio's. Their new generation of sets, actually have a low failure rate. They use the same LCD glass as everyone else uses. LG's for their economy & mid line have a high failure rate. It is when you get into their more expensive line. Then you see less failure.

Most failures on electronics is a surge that goes through the incoming CATV or Satellite line, and due to no or poor grounding, or lightning protection. Anything connected with that Coax as the signal line gets fried.

HDMI failures from surges are caused by the surge going through the ground pin.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

FWIW, this is what we got:

Vizio E500i-B1 (TV)
Vizio S2920w-CO (soundbar)
Sanus SAN55BB (mount)

I think we'll stick with it, because my wife got it all at Target with some gift cards and 5% off coupons. My wife just based her decision on the Target options. I really wasn't involved in this purchase, or else I would have done the usual research. (Hopefully, it isn't total crap!--now I have to look this all up!)

Been busy this week and hadn't had time to post my layout idea; so I know I don't have all the information in here. Will get to that soon.

thanks,
Dante


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Dante,

When you get the rest of the info post it, and then we'll take a look.

I presume you're going to have both a DVD and a Cable box or Satellite receiver, and possibly a off air antenna (I strongly recommend having a off air solution if you hadn't planned on one), and the sources will be on a open shelf?


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Cabling can be really expensive, especially if you have long runs. I recommend Monoprice.com for good quality cables at exceptional prices. I've purchased numerous HDMI, component, and speaker wires from them and all have been top quality.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Dave Sal said:


> Cabling can be really expensive, especially if you have long runs. I recommend Monoprice.com for good quality cables at exceptional prices. I've purchased numerous HDMI, component, and speaker wires from them and all have been top quality.



You do know that ALL the Monoprice cables were not actually UL approved, even though they were erroneously labeled as such, don't you?


Nothing like putting wires in the walls that are not actually rated for such use. Plus there's the outrageous amount of failed products that are cited on many of the AV forums.


Wonder why the professionals don't use that stuff?


Sorry, but purchasing HDMI cables, etc, etc, based solely on the cheapest price, is not a great idea.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkelly said:


> You do know that ALL the Monoprice cables were not actually UL approved, even though they were erroneously labeled as such, don't you?
> 
> Nothing like putting wires in the walls that are not actually rated for such use. Plus there's the outrageous amount of failed products that are cited on many of the AV forums.
> 
> ...


I have never heard if that. I'm a member of AVSforum and never saw a post about that. Still, I have seen the quality of their products and would not hesitate putting them in my walls. They're not carrying electricity, just audio signals so I'm not too concerned. Thanks for the info. Heading to AVSforum now to read up on this.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Really KTKelly. So you are stating that everyone should continue to pay exorbitant costs on the same cables they can get for $5? Unless you have proof. You are just blowing smoke.

Just to let you know. LV & signal cables are not required to be UL Approved. Only power cables & devices that are powered by 120vAC or higher voltages. Even if the UL sticker is on the cable or device. All it states is that UL gave the cable or device it graces for meeting the minimum requirements of their standards.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Dave Sal said:


> I have never heard if that. I'm a member of AVSforum and never saw a post about that. Still, I have seen the quality of their products and would not hesitate putting them in my walls. They're not carrying electricity, just audio signals so I'm not too concerned. Thanks for the info. Heading to AVSforum now to read up on this.


I would not go over there. You are going to get attacked as if you are a Salmon swimming through a bunch of bears trying to grab you for dinner. They will eat you alive over there.

KTKelly is just trying to sell his company's services. You are fine with what you are doing. As for your setup. I would stick with a clean run of one HDMI (Redmere) or Cat-6 run for HDMI. Run all equipment through a switcher that can be controlled by a remote or network capable. Or run through a AVRS.

You have a Sound Bar, TV, media playback device. Just need to put it all together and grab a beer. Something like this, should take no more than 4 hours tops to get setup. The more time you spend hemming and hawing about it, and letting this thread run like it has gone the direction now.

This thread will cause you to now not get the project done. That is why most people do not post about their projects on forums anymore. Too much of an opportunity to get the likes of KTKelly turning you away from doing it how you want to.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> You have a Sound Bar, TV, media playback device. Just need to put it all together and grab a beer. Something like this, should take no more than 4 hours tops to get setup. The more time you spend hemming and hawing about it, and letting this thread run like it has gone the direction now.


It all depends on the components involved. I have only two lines to my 60 inch tv (the power cable, and a *single* hdmi) and that's all I will ever need. Everything else is connected to my pioneer theater receiver which acts of course as the switcher. The tv is basically nothing more than a monitor at this point which stays on the same input all the time and everything is being connected, handled and switched through the pioneer (mede8er media streamer, satellite, PS3, DVD/Blu Ray and cable). The audio isn't even handled by the tv anymore. The pioneer does that as well. This all makes life a lot simpler... especially when hanging a tv on a wall where it becomes difficult to run wires and get at the connections in the back of it.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

gregzoll said:


> KTKelly is just trying to sell his company's services.



Really?

Just how am I trying to "sell my companies services"?


Once again, you make idiotic claims, and make it personal. It's a shame that you simply cannot admit you might be wrong.


FWIW: I don't go to AVS Forums, since most there are just like you. Full of incorrect information and advice. 

So here you go. Here's the old thread about the Monoprice products: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/36-ho...ning-about-monoprice-wall-category-cable.html

It's old news, and it still goes on today.










> This thread will cause you to now not get the project done. That is why most people do not post about their projects on forums anymore. Too much of an opportunity to get the likes of KTKelly turning you away from doing it how you want to.



Yeah, the likes of me, who is actually in the electronics systems integrations, and have been for 30+ years, will hold things up, while you, who thinks he knows it all, and your off the mark advice, will do no harm at all.


It's a sad day when a professional cannot give god advice without some idiot chiming in maligning others character.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, I visited AVSforum last night and searched for Monoprice threads. I didn't see any that were bashing their quality at all. In fact, the majority were saying how they were impressed with the quality of Monoprice cables.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

I pick up my HDMI cables at Princess Auto in the surplus section..... 15 feet for 10 bucks. Never had a problem with them.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Dave Sal said:


> Well, I visited AVSforum last night and searched for Monoprice threads. I didn't see any that were bashing their quality at all. In fact, the majority were saying how they were impressed with the quality of Monoprice cables.



Dave Sal,

Did you take a look at the link to AVS Forums I put up?


The following is for everyone else. It's not directed at any one specific person..

Every DIY'er has their "thing". Many will use the cheapest product they can find, others will use the most expensive. 

*The pro uses the most reliable.*




For me, and my business, it's not about making more money (I would probably make more using the cheap stuff), it's about installing something that is 100% reliable.

I don't have the time to keep going back to a job fixing issues, and the company reputation can be damaged by using some substandard product.


As for some here, I'll just say: You don't know me, you don't know my company, you have no reason to talk trash about me. why not try to accept that I am someone that maybe does know a bit more than you who are not in the industry.

You go to the plumbing section, and you ask advice of the pros. You go to the electrical section, and you ask advice of the pros. Why would you not ask the advice of a pro in this section?

It astounds me that when given information in this particular section, I am called names, told I don't know what I'm talking about, and yet I still make the effort to help those with questions.

With that, I may just leave you guys to get your help from the wannabes, since it's obvious that no one here really seems to want help from a professional in the audio video field.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> *The pro uses the most reliable.*


Agree completely. Your problem however is in understanding that price and reliability often have little to do with each other. A real "pro" if there is such a term for this topic would understand where good money should be spent and where it is a mere waste. Indeed most high price tags are specifically aimed at people such as yourself who completely confuse the idea of quality and price. Companies are not dumb. They know there are those out there who automatically levitate to the highest price tag first. Just about every shopping website on the planet has a sort feature involving a "highest price first" sorting.... why do you think that is? 



> With that, I may just leave you guys to get your help from the wannabes, since it's obvious that no one here really seems to want help from a professional in the audio video field.


It's statements like this which cause you to lose total credibility in your words.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Bob Sanders said:


> Agree completely. Your problem however is in understanding that price and reliability often have little to do with each other.


Actually I do understand that price and reliability don't always go hand in hand. But I also do understand that the cheapest, is almost 100% the most unreliable. There's is a middle ground, and most of what is suggested here is not in the middle, but is rather at the bottom.



> A real "pro" if there is such a term for this topic would understand where good money should be spent and where it is a mere waste.


If there is such a term?

What would you call a person that has spend the better part of his life in the electronics business? One who has spent countless hours EVERY year taking continuing education classes in the audio, video, lighting, security, automation, etc, etc, design and installation?


Nuff said....


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> But I also do understand that the cheapest, is almost 100% the most unreliable.


You're still not seeing the flaw in your logic. Believeing in such a thing is exactly the same in believing that the best is the highest price... only opposite.





> What would you call a person that has spend the better part of his life in the electronics business? One who has spent countless hours EVERY year taking continuing education classes in the audio, video, lighting, security, automation, etc, etc, design and installation?
> 
> 
> Nuff said....


I would call him/her the same as a high school kid working at Bestbuy... a "professional". You see the problem? Today everybody is a professional. It matters not that you do something for money (that's what a "pro" actually is). What matters is your experience. I'm not a "pro" audio/video guy.... but I bet I could run circles around most of 'em. There are also lots of other non "pro" people here that could run circles around most of the "pros" out there so I would be very careful about making the mistake of placing yourself on a pedestal on this particular site. It's a sure-fire way of setting yourself up to scrape egg off the face.


My DECADES AND DECADES of experience with cables is that for the most part the expensive ones look very pretty and the packaging sure is living room display quality, but at the end of the day the electricity flows though them no faster than the cheap ones.

Now that's not to say I don't believe in expensive cables but it depends on the situation. If the cable is going to be placed at a point and not touched again, the cheapy's are great. However if it's going to be constantly flexed, stepped on, kicked, subjected to heavy emf, sworn at, etc... then you want something with meat and quality.

You see the difference between wasting money and not?


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Wow,


Now I'm being compared to a high school kid at Best Buy, and YOU can run circles around most of the guys that have spent years and years, in this business.


Sounds like you pretty much full of yourself.


I guess you build rocket ships too?



I'm done. Dealing with an idiot really isn't all that fun...


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> Sounds like you pretty much full of yourself.


Just matching your level of conversation is all


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

KTKelly, you do realize that link was for Counterfeit Ethernet cabling, not HDMI. It was not just Monoprice that this happened to. It was pretty much every manufacturer that got hit with Counterfeit products around that same time.

That problem was resolved very quickly. Same as the Chinese drywall. Good try, but no cigar.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Bob Sanders said:


> I pick up my HDMI cables at Princess Auto in the surplus section..... 15 feet for 10 bucks. Never had a problem with them.


I started going with the Amazon HDMI cables. Same stuff as Monoprice, but not as big of a head on the ends. Easier when needing a durable connector end. Or I order through newegg.com for the C2Go HDMI cables. Same pricing as Monoprice.

The cables I have stopped buying from Monoprice, is their pre-made up RG-6u jumpers. Got too many that the ends just pull off of them. Started to just make up my own when I am not in a rush.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

OP here, and back on the job! Had a few weeks of distractions going on....

I think I have all my info together now. Attached is a photo of our set-up, with me laying in where I plan to run wires. To review, I have full access to the attic above, so going horizontal will be easy--I'm looking at this as just several vertical runs. By keeping the signal wiring on the "inside" I'll have a shorter run (maybe 18'?) between where I plan to put the components and the TV. Also, this will make it easier for me to avoid crossing with the electrical. I'll run 3/4" smurf tubing to the two signal boxes (and in the attic) and finish with some recessed receptacles. I'll just hide the sound bar wiring with a small channel right up the middle of the wall to keep it simple.

Electrical will be a whole other ball of wax, as I'm still looking at the house wiring. But to keep this post simple, I'm limiting my electrical comments only to where it relates to the signal wiring and such.

Running HDMI over ethernet won't be a problem for me. We have techs where I work and they can make my cables for me if I just bring in the wiring and hardware. So I'd like to go that route to minimize cables.

Here is our component list, in order of how frequently we currently use it in our previous set up:

Roku
MacBook (w/ HDMI)
DVD player (component/composite; old, but still works)
Wii (composite)
TV (RG6 from rabbit ears.... I'm serious.)

The way I look at it, I'm thinking of going one of two ways.

Option 1--get a single AV receiver that can convert all my existing devices to HDMI and run a single line to the TV. Looks like it could run me $400 or so, but we'll have capability for future and will allow us to run our old components until they die, so no rush to buy anything else immediately.

Option 2--get an HDMI switcher and also run a single line to the TV. Cheaper in the short run, but does mean buying an additional component (DVD player) and we wouldn't be able to move Wii. (Not a deal breaker for family--I think they're OK with it staying in other room) 

[In both cases, I'll have to move the TV antenna to the attic and run an RG6 down--exactly where will depend on which Option I go with, but same either way.]

On a cost basis, it seems Option 2 makes sense, since new DVD players are dirt cheap. But wanted some feedback to see if I'm missing anything or if there are other questions I need to ask myself before I start cutting holes in the wall and drilling!

Thanks everyone! 
Dante


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Go with option 1 or 2. Plugging things into the back of the tv after it has been mounted is a PIA. If you use the tv as a simple monitor (as in option one or 2) then you will never have to get to the back of the tv for anything. You can also go with option 2 and easily upgrade to option one at a later date.

Option 1 though is the best. You can plug anything into the back of your av receiver (component, hdmi, composite.. etc) and spit it out as hdmi.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Yeah, I like option 1. But I'm having trouble finding receivers that convert component or composite to HDMI; and what turns up is really expensive. What is the feature I'm looking for? I may be using the wrong keywords. And in some cases I can't really tell from reading the specs. I don't need a top-line unit, just something to do the job.
Thanks,
Dante


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## jimn (Nov 13, 2010)

dcentuori said:


> Yeah, I like option 1. But I'm having trouble finding receivers that convert component or composite to HDMI; and what turns up is really expensive. What is the feature I'm looking for? I may be using the wrong keywords. And in some cases I can't really tell from reading the specs. I don't need a top-line unit, just something to do the job. Thanks, Dante


. 



Most all do. My Yahama cost 450 bucks at best buy a couple of years back. One HDMI cable to the tv and a power cord. Plugged into the Yahama is the Apple TV (HDMI), my DVD player (composite ), and indeed and old VHS player (video) and my ATT U Verse set top box. All get sent to the TV via HDMI . It even has return to so my Panasonics Veralink works


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

jimn01 said:


> . Most all do. My Yahama cost 450 bucks at best buy a couple of years back. One HDMI cable to the tv and a power cord. Plugged into the Yahama is the Apple TV (HDMI), my DVD player (composite ), and indeed and old VHS player (video) and my ATT U Verse set top box. All get sent to the TV via HDMI . It even has return to so my Panasonics Veralink works


Yup.
Onkyo, Pioneer, Toshiba, Yamaha, Denon... they pretty much all take whatever connection you input and outputs it to a single hdmi. I have a PS3, cable box, mede8er streamer, dvd player all connected to my pioneer with inputs ranging from hdmi right on over to composite and spdif, and it all outputs to a single hdmi to my tv. My tv is basically nothing more than a monitor which stays on the same input (hdmi1) all the time and all the switching is done through the pioneer, including sound and volume. Everything is assignable too. I can assign composite input 1 and spdif input 2 to my dvd player and have it output to hdmi1.... etc.

The rear end of a typical home theater receiver these days:


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Bob Sanders said:


> Yup.
> Onkyo, Pioneer, Toshiba, Yamaha, Denon... they pretty much all take whatever connection you input and outputs it to a single HDMI.




"Pretty much all" being a key phrase. Not all do up-convert so you best do some research beforehand. "Pretty much SOME" might be a better way to put it?

*Found at the Pioneer website:*


From the Pioneer VSX-524-K, VSX-824-K & VSX-1024-K manual:

_This receiver is not loaded with a video converter_

From the Pioneer VSX-1124-K manual:

_About the video converter....


So, in the Pioneer line of AVR's, only the top model ($450.00 on Amazon) supports video up-conversion.

Of course, you can always go to the Pioneer Elite series. But then you'd be sending even more...



Okay, flame away....
_


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> "Pretty much SOME" might be a better way to put it?


I agree... a better way of putting it.

I will say however that I'm pretty sure even though the cheaper avr's like the Pioneer VSX-524-K does not have a converter, you can still output an SD signal to hdmi. It just won't upconvert is all.

I have the elite series btw. Nice avr's. I do miss theAudyssey system though (had an Onkyo before this). Pioneer's MCACC doesn't adjust below 63Hz. Not the end of the world mind you but Audyssey was slightly better.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

OK, so I guess "up-convert" means more than just converting analog video coming in on component or composite to a digital HDMI output? What does it mean if I get a receiver that isn't up-converting the signal? If I'm watching DVDs or playing the Wii on our new 50" TV, but with standard definition would it look bad?

I just looked at the specs and manual for the VSX-524-K, and nothing in there led me to believe I could get the SD output on the HDMI. It looks like component-component out, etc. What are the key words or features I need to look for when I'm looking?

Thanks,
Dante


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

dcentuori said:


> OK, so I guess "up-convert" means more than just converting analog video coming in on component or composite to a digital HDMI output?


That's right, it does do more than just allow that SD signal to go out via the HDMI port. Not going to go into a lengthy explanation, so just understand that up-converting IS something you need if you're going the route of using an AVR



> What does it mean if I get a receiver that isn't up-converting the signal? If I'm watching DVDs or playing the Wii on our new 50" TV, but with standard definition would it look bad?


It'll look no worse than a direct SD connection. But, yes, I think it won't look good.



> I just looked at the specs and manual for the VSX-524-K, and nothing in there led me to believe I could get the SD output on the HDMI. It looks like component-component out, etc. What are the key words or features I need to look for when I'm looking?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dante


Each company will have their own descriptor. 

With Pioneer, if you look under "Video Processing" in the specs, you'll see:

Video to HDMI is checked

HDMI to HDMI video scaler

Component to HDMI video scaler

Composite to video scaler.



With Yamaha you'll see:

"Video upscaling" in the video specs (starting with the RX-V677 in the standard line, and in the Aventage line all the units have upscaling..



Bear in mind that all DVD & BluRay players are limited to 480i via anything but the HDMI port, so the picture quality is not much better than the old VCR. This only apples to units made after Jan 1 2013 though.


Hope this helps rather than confuses....


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Bob Sanders said:


> I agree... a better way of putting it.
> 
> I will say however that I'm pretty sure even though the cheaper avr's like the Pioneer VSX-524-K does not have a converter, you can still output an SD signal to hdmi. It just won't upconvert is all.



Nope, 

You cannot output an SD signal via the HDMI port without the video processor. The AVR must have the video processor to do the scaling required to send the signal out via the HDMI port.

HDMI in, HDMI out. Composite in, composite out. Component in, component out.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that's not allowed due to the HDCP restrictions. Right?

In my living room I have an HDMI pulled for my BR, and a 5 wire component pulled for my Wii and DVR's. I don't have an actual AVR (just my HTIB) but the wiring would have to be the same.

In my HT I don't mess with anything but the HDMI, but I don't have any non HDMI inputs there either.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

We don't have a speaker system to hook up, nor plan to in the near future, so I just thought of Option 3:

Get an HDMI switcher and a composite-to-HDMI digital converter for the DVD player and Wii. [Something like this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=9994&seq=1&format=2]
In the short term, this should cost the least. I'm just wary of spending $400 on a receiver right out the gate. If this satisfies our needs, I stop here. We're going to need a new DVD player soon anyway, so until then, we just switch the cables for the Wii.

Thanks,
Dante


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

dcentuori said:


> We don't have a speaker system to hook up, nor plan to in the near future, so I just thought of Option 3:
> 
> Get an HDMI switcher and a composite-to-HDMI digital converter for the DVD player and Wii. [Something like this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=9994&seq=1&format=2]
> In the short term, this should cost the least. I'm just wary of spending $400 on a receiver right out the gate. If this satisfies our needs, I stop here. We're going to need a new DVD player soon anyway, so until then, we just switch the cables for the Wii.
> ...



Only problem with the Monoprice device is that it is a cheap Chinese product that may, or may not, get the job done.

But, if you're a gambler, then here's an option.

Use this: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=9994&seq=1&format=2 (as you thought).

With this: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=7114&seq=1&format=2

And this: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011001&p_id=8149&seq=1&format=2


Might as well buy your HDMI cables from them as well....



Good luck with it....


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Oh, of course, I realize that. I just included the link to see if I was thinking of the right kind of device. But heck, for over 5 years my house's wifi router was a $10 Trendnet POS I got for $2 after rebate from some computer ink store that wend out of business--and did fine with that!

Thanks for the other reccs.
Dante


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> Nope,
> 
> You cannot output an SD signal via the HDMI port without the video


That is incorrect.
HDMI is perfectly capable of handling sd without a processor. It simply does not get upscaled.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Bob,

Take a look at the page 19, right side, of the user manual for the Pioneer AVR's (VSX-824-K specifically):

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-824-K_OperatingInstructions032014.pdf

For those that are not equipped with a video processor, it's composite in, composite out, component in, component out, HDMI in, HDMI out.

Basically that means if the AVR doesn't have the video processor (convertor), there will be no SD signal send out via HDMI. 

NO HDMI in means no HDMI signal out.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> Bob,
> 
> Take a look at the page 19, right side, of the user manual for the Pioneer AVR's (VSX-824-K specifically):
> 
> ...


Thanks.
I stand corrected.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

dcentuori said:


> We don't have a speaker system to hook up, nor plan to in the near future, so I just thought of Option 3:
> 
> Get an HDMI switcher and a composite-to-HDMI digital converter for the DVD player and Wii. [Something like this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=9994&seq=1&format=2]
> In the short term, this should cost the least. I'm just wary of spending $400 on a receiver right out the gate. If this satisfies our needs, I stop here. We're going to need a new DVD player soon anyway, so until then, we just switch the cables for the Wii.
> ...


If you aren't using any HD sources, why mess with HDMI? 

For $20, get this component video switch

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011007&p_id=3027&seq=1&format=2

I've had mine for 8 years now, and despite it coming from China, it and my chinese (monoprice) cables have been fine.

Hook your DVD and Wii up to it, run component cables to your TV.

In the future, when you buy a BDP and want sound, buy a cheap AVR. 

:thumbsup:


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Two of my current sources are HD--Roku, and our MacBookPro. I'm just trying to get it streamlined with my legacy stuff too! Just don't want to drop another $500 on more stuff right now. I think the swticher and converter combo will work out. (And I need to get an extender cable for the Wii sensor bar!)

As an aside, I got the electrical done last night! As hoped, I was able to tie into run in the basement that only had a few outlets on it. As a bonus, it turned out to be one of the few circuits in my old house that is actually grounded! 

Small obstacle discovered--my sound bar's transformer plug is too big for my recessed outlet behind the TV. Since I was planning to just run a channel anyway, for the time being I'll just make 2-foot or so household extension cord and hide the plug behind the bar. Later I'll either run another line or install a recessed quad.

I'll have to post pictures of my project!

Thanks,
Dante


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Update here. 

I was waiting on getting my switchers, etc. until I had my set up confirmed and working. Got my HDMI over cat 6 parts on Wednesday. I bought two of these: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8563387 If you have already figured out what I did wrong, you can skip the rest of my post. 

Wasn't getting HD off the Roku; no sound in some cases. No signal at all with our Mac. Tested it at work with different sources and it seemed OK. But after 3 days of head scratching I finally figured out what all the words in the description mean, and I put 2 and 2 together. Yeah, I bought two receivers. :huh: 

I think I'll have better luck with a receiver/transmitter pair, like this: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-11640 (and I downloaded the manual to read every detail!) Just need to make another ethernet cable. 

Stay tuned....

Thanks,
Dante


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

I hope it works out for you, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


There's a reason that the pros use top of the line products. We want the system to work right the first time, and to have it continue to work day in day out.



If you must go "budget", may I recommend this: 

http://www.etherealhometheater.com/extender/cs-hdc5extd-dual-cat5-6-hdmi-extender-30-meters.html

Or this:

http://www.etherealhometheater.com/extender/cs-hdc5exts-single-cat5-6-extender-50-meters.html


With what you're trying to use, you may end up with the same, or similar issues.


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Wait, this just occurred to me. Now that I have my cable run in place, I know how long it is; about 18 feet. Could I just get a 20-foot in-wall HDMI cable? Originally, I thought I would have a much longer run, but it worked out.

Dante


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

dcentuori said:


> Wait, this just occurred to me. Now that I have my cable run in place, I know how long it is; about 18 feet. Could I just get a 20-foot in-wall HDMI cable? Originally, I thought I would have a much longer run, but it worked out.
> 
> Dante


Don't know why you're messing around with HDMI over cat for 20 feet. HDMI will easily handle this distance on its own.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

dcentuori said:


> Wait, this just occurred to me. Now that I have my cable run in place, I know how long it is; about 18 feet. Could I just get a 20-foot in-wall HDMI cable? Originally, I thought I would have a much longer run, but it worked out.
> 
> Dante



Yes, that'll work just fine.

BUT....


Make sure it's in wall rated, and don't buy some cheap, garbage cable, or you'll still have issues.


I'm not a Monoprice fan, but this should do the job: http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-30-...0&sr=1-5&keywords=20'+hdmi+cable+with+redmere


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I had a 50' HDMI cable from monoprice in our old house. Worked great. The trick is feeding that HDMI connector through. Be SURE to keep the caps on the ends and tape them into place. 

Likewise, be sure to factor TOTAL distance. As in, from the TV to the wall, up/down the wall, across the ceiling (or around the other walls) and then out the wall to the source device. It all adds up. I just used a brushed opening wall plate as putting in-wall HDMI connections was overkill.

Like one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/GE-87697-Single-Brush-Plastic/dp/B003YKG8YK


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## dcentuori (May 21, 2011)

Yes, I know about wall-rated. I don't mess with cutting corners there.

I have some HDMI wall plates, so I know from my ethernet cable that 18' gives me enough length; I'd by an 18' in-wall HDMI cable if it came in that length, so 20 feet should do it, and I'll just tuck the rest in the wall.

Thanks for the tip about leaving the endcaps on--I may not have done that intially!

I think that when I started this, I was assuming I'd have a long run to pull HDMI, and just got hung up on the HDMI over cat 6 method even after it was clear I'd be dealing with distances of less than 20 feet! Oh well, lesson learned.

Dante


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

The HDMI connector insides are fragile. Those caps do help avoid damage. Just be sure to treat them gently, even with the caps. That and the conductors inside the cable won't benefit if you pull too hard to bend them too tightly around an edge. So when you attach your pull string be sure to secure it up along the length of the cable by 12" or so. This way you'll spread the pulling stress somewhat. Wrap the two with electrical tape and leave a bit over the end to form a bit of a sloping tip. Don't just leave the capped end square as that'll darn sure get hung up somewhere.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

20ft . . . no problem. Worked out pretty well!


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