# Taping Wire Nut on Ground Wires



## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Newyork90 said:


> Hello all! I have been in the process of changing out lighting and have been utilizing wire nuts to splice the wires. I understand that taping the wire nuts is not a requirement, however I have been taping them. I have no reason to believe the wire nuts are not secure, however I am very neurotic and I want to eliminate any chance that wires could potentially slip free and cause a fire.
> 
> I was talking to someone about this and they mentioned that they had never heard of anyone taping a wire nut on the ground wires before.
> 
> My question is; are there any safety concerns with taping a wire nut onto ground wires?



If helps you sleep at night, then tape away. But IMHO if you want a better connection use barrel crimps. Then no worries about a nut backing off.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Only time I tape is if there's a metal box, then I even wrap around the whole outlet.
One of my guys installed an outlet and the screws made contact with the side of the box and luckly tripped the breaker and just distroyed the outlet.
Most often the outlet just stops working if the wire comes loose.


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Don't tape the caps on bare ground wires - and don't pigtail them either, use a cap with a hole in top, that's what it's there for, to connect to grounding screw


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

Get a supply of these in different sizes........

https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-413...ocphy=9016411&hvtargid=pla-307219552942&psc=1


The DIY'er never has to worry about fire nuts....I mean wire nuts again. Just read and follow installation instructions.


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## Wiredindallas (Nov 9, 2018)

i always hold onto the wire nut (I use wing nuts) then semi-firmly pull on each wire individually to assure they caught hold. If the connection inside the wire nut is poor, tape is not going to help it. This said, tapimg is perfectly OK as long as the wires caught good.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Texasdiyer said:


> Don't tape the caps on bare ground wires - and don't pigtail them either, use a cap with a hole in top, that's what it's there for, to connect to grounding screw





Another reason to use a crimp, you can always leave one wire long to attach to a screw


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Yodaman said:


> If helps you sleep at night, then tape away. But IMHO if you want a better connection use barrel crimps. Then no worries about a nut backing off.


If you use that on a current carrying conductor, how do you insulate it? Electrical tape is not sufficient.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Wiredindallas said:


> i always hold onto the wire nut (I use wing nuts) then semi-firmly pull on each wire individually to assure they caught hold. If the connection inside the wire nut is poor, tape is not going to help it. This said, taping is perfectly OK as long as the wires caught good.



It's not the cap holding the wires together, it's the twisting of them together BEFORE you put the cap on - the cap is just to make sure there's no arcing


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## chiraldude (Nov 16, 2013)

rjniles said:


> If you use that on a current carrying conductor, how do you insulate it? Electrical tape is not sufficient.


Use something called self fusing or Mastic tape. It's the stuff the power company uses to wrap service connections.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/electrical-construction-maintenance-us/resources/mastic-electrical-tape-guide/
As for wrapping wire nuts, I seriously hate it when i open up a junction box and find 10 feet of electrical tape wrapped around all the nuts. Takes forever to unwrap it and then the sticky goo of 10 year old tap gets all over your fingers.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

rjniles said:


> If you use that on a current carrying conductor, how do you insulate it? Electrical tape is not sufficient.
> 
> Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk





They make a strap cap which I prefer but have to order, or a plastic push cap that my locals carry.













The wrap caps are reusable, the push caps are a one way deal.


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## tmittelstaedt (Nov 7, 2018)

10 years ago my father had a contractor do some construction. He hooked his pancake compressor for his nailgun up to an convenient outdoor outlet. 2 days later he was not using that outlet, he ran an extension cord around to the garage. Well you can probably guess what happened - the day after he left my father calls me and says the outdoor light switch isn't working anymore.

I go over there and talk to him - then pull out the outdoor outlet - it crumbled away in my hand - inside the junction box everything is black and carbonized. That jerk realized he screwed the outlet up so said nothing and damn near burnt the house down.

The junctions inside that outlet were ALL done by crimping.

You can joke all you want about fire nuts but wire nuts use a spring inside them and so once they are screwed down the conductors are pressed against each other and ALWAYS are under pressure as long as the spring does not fracture (I've seen it happen in an old wirenut). Crimps by contrast once they are squeezed down they do NOT maintain pressure on the joint over time because there is no spring in them. The copper deforms when crimped but does not spring back so does not maintain pressure.
The integrity is dependent on enough copper being deformed at the crimp site so that the wire becomes thinner at the crimp site than at the end so the barrel connector cannot slip off. But nothing stops them from getting loose even if they are still captive in the connector and developing a high resistance connection which is what happened with my fathers house.
In my opinion the things are unsafe and I don't know why anyone thinks they are better. They are FASTER to install but I have seen many many Type-F coax antenna connectors fail that were crimped and I have also seen many many RG-58U ethernet connections fail back in the thinnet days due to poor crimps. (oh dear I'm dating myself)
Crimps that are done on modern commercial cabling made in high volume in a factory are always done on a calibrated crimper that is set to the manufacturer's recommended spec for crimp deformation on a particular wire. Doing them in the field (I've crimped plenty of RG58) requires practice and a "feel" for it that most techs back in the day did not have (incidentally making good field-crimps on CAT-6 ethernet also requires a "feel" that most techs today do not have, either) I'd never do them on electrical wire vs wirenuts.


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

I replace every wire nut connection I come across that has solid and stranded wire with the WAGO connection.

That includes anywhere with vibration such as motors.

Wire nuts are fine IF INSTALLED CORRECTLY. And that is a big IF.


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## tmittelstaedt (Nov 7, 2018)

DanS26 said:


> I replace every wire nut connection I come across that has solid and stranded wire with the WAGO connection.
> 
> That includes anywhere with vibration such as motors.
> 
> Wire nuts are fine IF INSTALLED CORRECTLY. And that is a big IF.


I have used those for datacom I didn't know they made them for power. That's the same idea though, when locked down they keep a constant pressure on the conductor. Do you find issues with the amount of room the things take up in junction boxes?

You are right wirenuts and stranded wire are problematical. They are really designed for thick solid core wire. Often people use the wrong size. A wirenut that is the right size for 2 #12 conductors will be too large for a #12 and a stranded. They seem to also like to throw those crappy wirenuts that lack springs into the boxes that wall lamps come in and such. Also I think a lot of homeowners don't realize just how tight that the nut has to be cranked down particularly on a larger bundle of wires. It has to cut threads into the copper, you know. With stranded wire that is a real problems since it can cut through some of the strands.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

tmittelstaedt said:


> 10 years ago my father had a contractor do some construction. He hooked his pancake compressor for his nailgun up to an convenient outdoor outlet. 2 days later he was not using that outlet, he ran an extension cord around to the garage. Well you can probably guess what happened - the day after he left my father calls me and says the outdoor light switch isn't working anymore.
> 
> I go over there and talk to him - then pull out the outdoor outlet - it crumbled away in my hand - inside the junction box everything is black and carbonized. That jerk realized he screwed the outlet up so said nothing and damn near burnt the house down.
> 
> ...



Interesting story. My response would be that probably any connector installed improperly is going to be a fire hazard. Granted the spring tension theory does carry some merit, but so does the compression of a properly installed crimp. Honestly, I have run across more loose connections from a conductor pulling out of a wire nut than a crimp. I will say that the steel crimps are better than the copper. The copper split too easy IMO


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

tmittelstaedt said:


> That jerk realized he screwed the outlet up so said nothing and damn near burnt the house down.


Kindly explain to us how he screwed the outlet up?


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## tmittelstaedt (Nov 7, 2018)

A pancake compressor does not draw a lot of current (I happen to have one myself) it should be well within the service rating of a typical household outlet. So there wasn't a problem with plugging it into the outdoor outlet on the wall that is what it was there for. However, when you are in the middle of running your compressor and suddenly it cuts off and there's a big snapping noise from the outlet and smoke comes out you don't just unplug your compressor and say nothing to the homeowner. It's not like he didn't have permission to plug into the outlet or that he should have known better. He was using the outlet within design parameters, with permission, and it suddenly malfunctions on him. If he had said something my father would have cut the power and removed the outlet to see what was going on and that might have extinguished the fire before it ended up smouldering away and burning up all the insulation on all the wires inside the box, making repairs more difficult.

It wasn't his fault that it happened. But it WAS his fault that he said NOTHING. He left a jobsite with an electrical fire smouldering away in the wall of the house that he knew about. Fortunately it ran out of fuel and extinguished itself and the conductors in the box didn't happen to be pressed against the box wall where they might have arced to ground, or worse the ground melts and now the metal cover of the outlet is energized. A residential breaker can fail and leave a circuit energized and that happens more than people think. And in this case the breaker did NOT kick over the reason they noticed a problem was because the outlet had been feeding the porch light and when the outlet burned up the little bridge on it disconnected.

Of course you can choose to believe he didn't know about it. Why then did he not say something to my father when the outlet didn't work the next day and instead drag a 50 foot extension cord from the garage in front of the house all the way around the back? He knew. After all the front of the outlet had carbon tracks all over it.

Of course it could be argued that the outlet failed not the crimp joint. However the crimp joint was loose and the outlet was bakelite and if it had failed it should have contained the fire inside the outlet itself not into the wires in the box. There was no way to know for sure. But it clearly was a case of a bad connection overheating due to the higher current of the compressor - current that was within the 15A of the circuit but higher than normal use of the outlet (which was probably intended originally for a radio or other convenience for when people were sitting on the porch)


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## Photobug (Jun 25, 2017)

I have not used these yet but just bought a box of these. 

https://www.amazon.com/25-095-Green...pID=41zZDgn3Z0L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

I have never used tape in a box. When I have gone after someone else and find electrical tape (in a sailboat) it shows to me someone did not know what they were doing and used electrical tape to cover up shoddy work and left a sticky mess for me to clean up.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

tmittelstaedt said:


> However, when you are in the middle of running your compressor and suddenly it cuts off and there's a big snapping noise from the outlet and smoke comes out you don't just unplug your compressor and say nothing to the homeowner.


Snapping noise? He heard that over the drone of the pancake compressor? 
Not likely. A lot of "Assuming" on your part here. When you "Assume" you make an "A$$" out of "u" and "me".

Reality says the contractor assumes the breaker flipped. He then finds another outlet, stays working and makes progress on the job at hand.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Properly installed wire nuts do not require tape.
The greenies with the hole in them are for ground wires only.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

Newyork90 said:


> Hello all! I have been in the process of changing out lighting and have been utilizing wire nuts to splice the wires. I understand that taping the wire nuts is not a requirement, however I have been taping them. I have no reason to believe the wire nuts are not secure, however I am very neurotic and* I want to eliminate any chance that wires could potentially slip free and cause a fire.*
> 
> I was talking to someone about this and they mentioned that they had never heard of anyone taping a wire nut on the ground wires before.
> 
> My question is; are there any *safety concerns with taping a wire nut* onto ground wires?





Taping the wire nut will do *nothing *to make it more fireproof or safer. So it fails to deliver on your fundamental objective. If you have a loose wire nut then you will have loose wires. Loose wires under load will heat up. The heat creates a potential fire hazard. Wire nuts are plenty safe if installed correctly. Tape won't fix a under-torqued wire nut. Tape won't fix wires improperly inserted into a wire nut for tightening. I use the wirenuts with tabs (wings) for your fingers so I can torque them down good and tight.


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## tmittelstaedt (Nov 7, 2018)

HenryMac said:


> Snapping noise? He heard that over the drone of the pancake compressor?
> Not likely. A lot of "Assuming" on your part here. When you "Assume" you make an "A$$" out of "u" and "me".
> 
> Reality says the contractor assumes the breaker flipped. He then finds another outlet, stays working and makes progress on the job at hand.


And says nothing to the homeowner. Riiiigggghhhhtttt.

Oh, how cute you are being. Your trying to troll me! Kind of sweet and cute like a little puppy dog trying to emulate the big dogs...


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

tmittelstaedt said:


> And says nothing to the homeowner. Riiiigggghhhhtttt.
> 
> Oh, how cute you are being. Your trying to troll me! Kind of sweet and cute like a little puppy dog trying to emulate the big dogs...


Not trolling, just pointing out another case in today's world it seems folks want to blame others for everything.

The guy was simply using an outlet and you blame him for nearly burning down the house, and say he is a jerk.


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

DanS26 said:


> I replace every wire nut connection I come across that has solid and stranded wire with the WAGO connection.
> 
> That includes anywhere with vibration such as motors.
> 
> Wire nuts are fine IF INSTALLED CORRECTLY. And that is a big IF.


I 100% agree with Wago's sure there more expensive depending on the wire nuts how you buy them.
1. ) make sure you use the stripping guide on the wagos.
2. ) Make sure you buy and use the right guage wago with what ever AWG wire your using- some WAGO's only go up to 12 awg some up to 10awg.
3.) DO not use the IDEAL or China like quick connectors- there very poor and the IDEAL are ONE time use.

For double protection/safety/peace of mind, I wrap the Wago levers when closed with electrical tape- not necessasry at all, again when you go above NEC requirements (bare bone requirements) your safety standards are much higher.
My master electrician grandfather taught me to always double wrap receptacle terminal screws and light switches yet I DONT see this simple practice rarely done- why? lazy contractors/yes and electricians, takes time- contractors more concerned about speed than QOW, cost < pennies . Again its not NEC standards buy great electrians are constantly thinking of even higher standards and safety practices. *Most electricians still think that think a grounding rod 100% protects you from electrical shock- it doesnt- the earth is a great conductor.

The copper caps/insulator ground caps are usually a bad deal for DIYERS because you need the proper tool to crimp them i.e. Buchanan C24 crimp tool NOT a linesman pliers tool or other pliers. And a good quality Buchanan crimp tool cost some coin if your not in the trade its not worth it.
So get your self some wagos and cut out those poorly crimped ground caps out. 
Cheers!


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Taping all wire nuts is the way to sign your work....as in “not done by a professional”.


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## jmig7 (Jul 11, 2017)

ront02769 said:


> Taping all wire nuts is the way to sign your work....as in “not done by a professional”.



I probably made a mistake saying professional or unprofessional, defining professional vs unprofessionial is a subjective matter determined upon someone's or some companies standards, organizational standards, taught practices, ethics, and or experiences/skill level

1. I DO NOT use electrical tape on wire nuts because its not necessary on the mechanical advantage of a properly secured wire nut and it just makes things messy.
2. I DO use a piece of electrical tape on wago connectors, on the levers, and only on the hot conductors for a visual point and a simple peace of mind- I call this a higher standard of professionalism, IMO.
3. Calling the following attached picture unprofessional and lazy, well the content must be explained or dissected. The technician was too lazy to supply or fabricate a capacitor mounting strap (if your installing a new capacitor you should always have a spare proper strap in the trade- not securing capacitors is a dangerous practice- wont go into the factual science); therefore they wrapped the terminals in electric tape and stuck the capacitor back inside the unit propped up on the defrost board. So is this unprofessional vs professsional.
In content its both- unprofessional that the technician didn't utilize or easily fabricate a mounting strap to the many factory fastening points in the electrical access panel of the condenser, that 100% condensers have, or at min use a UV/Electrical zip-tie strap that all technicians should carry.

Its borderline professional that at least s/he used electrical taped the terminals so if the box were to be weathered or deteriorate and/ or the capacitor fell further down to the bottom of the access panel (possible shorting) there would not be a short, maybe.

However I think what people are saying here is that if the technician did it right with a capactior mounting strap then electrical tape would not be needed, ever. Like a wire nut on conductors- done right.
However using electrical tape should not be categorized as unprofessional when applying it for added safety, or a visual que or a labeling process.


Is this a proper use of electrical tape- NO! just like taping wire nuts is not a proper use of electrical tape its not a NEC violation or code infraction to over use electrical tape- but you have to ask yourself why am I doing this?

The reason my master electrician grandfather taught me to wrap outlets/switches we were dealing with metal boxes and it was an added safety feature of a potential short vs today's plastic boxes. This is just one reason wont go into the others.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

Texasdiyer said:


> It's not the cap holding the wires together, it's the twisting of them together BEFORE you put the cap on - the cap is just to make sure there's no arcing



read the wirenut instructions, pre-twisting is not required


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

carmusic said:


> read the wirenut instructions, pre-twisting is not required


5. Pre-twisting acceptable, but not required. For pre-twisting; strip wires long, hold wires together with insulation even, twist wire ends together, trim to recommended strip length.

https://media.distributordatasolutions.com/ideal/2018q1/4f4025b843ad269ca094e7cd5e499b8234009939.pdf


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