# furnace problem



## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a HE Clare gas furnace.. It will start up fine , but i notice when the burner shuts off the inducer fan keeps running and wont shut off unless you turn the thermostat off.. i have change the pressure valve , high limit , control board and another thermostat, check the filter and cleaned the heat exchanger, i really dont know what else too do...


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

there is a sequencer that controls the inducer. You need to follow the inducer wiring to the sequencer. they are known to stick and are becoming hard to come by for that model furnace. intercity products bought that line of parts.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

the 2 wires coming off the inducer motor plug into the honeywell control board...


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Hey 126
Isn't that sequencer part of the control board that he already changed or is this one a sub board for the inducer that you are talking about?
What type of thermostat and thermostat connections do you have because I'm wondering 
what goes on with the thermostat being turned off that is different than just the "R" & "W" connection being broken when your thermostat is satisfyed for heat?


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

either your furnace has been modified or its not the same one I'm thinking of, but clare furnaces havent been made in a long time. Is there a diagnostic LED on the board?


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## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Some pics of the control board may shed some light on the subject


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

the control board LED is not giving me any fault codes.. it is normal.... i notice when the furnace does run, it will run for 5 mins then shuts down, before it reaches the temp. selected and the blower shuts off but inducer keeps going...the only way to shut off inducer is to turn the thermostat off.. i wonder if its a condensation line plugged... the parts i replaced on this furnace was used off a spare furnace i have.. so maybe the fan controller is faulty, i have one more i can try.. running out of things too try...


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

that furnace is a consolidated industries design that a number of manufacturers have produced. I think the main manufacturer was texas furnace. You furnace probably looks like this with the door on.







Also that furnace uses a honeywell smart valve..... known for problems.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

hvactech126 said:


> that furnace is a consolidated industries design that a number of manufacturers have produced. I think the main manufacturer was texas furnace. You furnace probably looks like this with the door on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That furnace was recalled!!!!

Texas Furnace only bought the design and tooling from Consolidated after it went belly up.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thats not quite what it looks like, but now i am getting 2 flashes on the LED ..Primary limit circuit open....

Is that the primary limit switch or the burner limit switch?


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

The furnace now runs, but there is another problem...When the Burner shuts off the Inducer fan should shut off also,..It stays running, even after the blower fan stops, the only way to stop it is too shut the power off at the furnace..


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

during this time that the inducer should be shutoff what is the voltage from W to C? WE will either see 24VAC or 0V


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

I will check it, so what your saying is if this shows 24V when its suppose to be off, it must be the circuit control board...


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

If it shows 24V then the thermostat is calling for heat and there is an ignition issue. If it shows 0V then the stat is not calling for heat and the board is at fault. Does your furnace look like this?


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am not that techy, so if it shows 24 v then the thermostat is fine( i just installed a new one) and the ignition problem would be where ???

that picture is pretty well what it looks like....here is mine


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Some off brand manufacturer must have revived the clare name.... 

If it shows 24V then the thermostat is actually calling for heat and that is why the inducer is running. If the stat is calling for heat and the inducer is running, but the burners are not firing then that would point to a pressure switch problem or the inevitable honeywell smart valve problem. More testing would be in order to determine the actual problem. First do the volt test as stated between W and C while the furnace is acting up so that we can determine the next step in the diagnostic process.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

I think i am getting closer..I have not did the voltage test, i will have to get one from my brother-in-law.
Anyways i went ahead and changed the Gas Valve with no luck, inducer still runs, next i took off the pressure switch, and noticed water in the bottom hose , is this normal..One hose goes into the top from the fresh air and there is a small hose that goes into the furnace..

I am guessing any condensation coming through the fresh air pipe would run through the pressure switch and into the furnace and the heat would evaporate it..

But anyways i changed the pressure switch and, the furnace has only run once but it run normal and the inducer did shut off..so i am hoping its a fix...

I will let you know...Thanks for all the info and help..Rick


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Water should not be in the pressure switch tubing. You may have found your problem. You should have tried to diagnose the problem properly instead if throwing parts at the furnace.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

So there may still be a problem, better check the line too see why there is water there..
If you know what i mean, why is that short piece of tubing there, that runs into the furnace...

i agree that's a stupid way of doing things..i have spent two days, exchanging parts..because i dont know everything there is to know how to diagnose a problem...
I did not even know when i seen water if it was suppose too be there..because i dont know what that short hose does...


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

The pressure switch proves the inducer is running and the furnace has draft. I would remove and clean the condensate trap.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

Well i broke the hose nipple on the condensate trap..trying too get the hose off, so i have another one on a old furnace but have failed to get it off, looks like its just caulking and screws, took all the screws out and cut around the caulking but it seems too be hanging on...i didnt want too force it and break it so i just left it, will try again tomorrow when i am not so tired.

I attempted too glue the nipple back on that i broke, so i am not sure if that is going to work,,,

I am way to tired of this.. if tomorrow is not better, i think i will just install a new furnace , this Clare is 16 yrs old,hoping to get longer out of it, but i also felt it was undersized for the house..so will see tomorrow..


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

Here is an Update...I called in a HVAC to check the furnace..I told him the draft inducer will not shut off, and there are times , at start up, it will run and, nothing else happens..

He blew into the hose attached too the Pressure switch and the furnace started up.. it run and shut off 6 times, worked perfect .....he didnt know exactly what was going on..charged me and left saying if it happens again call..I didn't think it was fixed, run two more times and now it wont run again.

One thing he did notice is the Draft Inducer was making some noise.. he said it needs to running at the proper RPM in order to create a draft to activate the pressure switch. So i notice some movement in the shaft, ( bearings ) thinking maybe this may be the problem..

If you blow into the hose connected to the pressure switch, does this tell you it may be the draft motor or the pressure switch.. I have replace the pressure switch with another one ( Not new ), but it is still acting up so the only thing that i can think is the Draft inducer, needs to be replaced..

The draft inducer is a Magnetek model JA1N107NS, i wonder if these are still available, or can the motor just have new bearings, from what i see it dont open up from the back, so maybe its sealed, i have not taken it out of the plastic case..

Whats your thoughts?
Rick


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

you called in an idiot! The proper diagnosis would be using a manometer.... Blowing into the pressure switch hose could potentially damage the pressure switch. He told you to call him back... DId he say he would charge you for a return Visit? call him back!


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

That tech is undertrained or incompetant. Either way, calling him back is unlikely to bring about much of a change. If you can ask for his boss to come back instead, you might be luckier but he's also the guy who is already letting a questionable tech represent him. Your neighbours can probably suggest a company that they regularly use.

Most tech's replace the ID assy as a whole. This is because the fan cage is often rusted solidly onto the motor shaft and that the amount of force required to remove it, will warp it out of shape. Many ID assy are now made in such a way that attempted removal of the components, damages the plastic housing.
Some folks here will WD40 the shaft and get some more life out of a motor whose bearings are seizing but this is often no more than a temporary extention of motor life.
Be aware also that anything that affects the flow of air through the intake, exhaust, both exchangers, ID seals to the furnace, ID restrictor plate as well as the ID assy can cause pressure switch problems. This is on top of faulty pressure switches, cracked hoses, split hose ends, ID port debris build up or ajar burner box covers.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

He didnt really say, but i assume if he comes back he will want money..it seems like the pressure switch is not getting the pressure to make the furnace work..somebody must know what to do, i guess i will try and find somebody smarter..thats why i hate calling people in ,i haver had bad luck they guess .. i can do that.. the last time i call in a HVAC. they didnt check nothing just put in a igniter. at 227.00 and it started up but run for 3 days... come back and put another igniter in, run for one week, so the 3rd time they finally realized it was not the igniter but the gas valve, the 3 trips in was 800.00.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

The Draft inducer motor shaft. i can move slightly back and forth, so i am thinking it is not reaching the 3200 RPM, i can take it out of the cage, but i know what you mean about the fan being hard to get off.. this fan is plastic..

I dont understand how the inducer fan puts pressure on the pressure switch as they are not hook up directly.. it must be putting pressure by way of the condensation trap..as both the inducer and the pressure switch have hoses attached too it..
if somebody blows in a hose to get a furnace running, then the switch must not be getting the proper pressure...would that be true..


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

if somebody blows in a hose to get a furnace running, then the switch must not be getting the proper pressure...would that be true.. 

Yes but the pressure can also be affected by the other parts listed in my last post. 
And as tech126 has said, blowing into the pressure switch easily damages it so that even with the right level of pressure it may not allow it to operate.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

If the pressure switch was any good, it probably isn't now..i will have to get a new one and a new inducer...if that dont correct it then i will find somebody better to fix it....

" HOW " I am in Canada also.. do you know where i could get a Tridelta pressure switch FS6055A-1792 1.56 on line in Canada..Rick


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> If the pressure switch was any good, it probably isn't now..i will have to get a new one and a new inducer...if that dont correct it then i will find somebody better to fix it....
> 
> " HOW " I am in Canada also.. do you know where i could get a Tridelta pressure switch FS6055A-1792 1.56 on line in Canada..Rick



Any wherer on the net.

Just google "Consolidated furnace parts".


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

pressure switch number:

Item Code: * HEAT3 4213000 *

Alternate Item ID: 
Description: PRESS.SWITCH-ALL "USA" 90+ 







Item Notes: 
UOM EAEA UOM EA Availability: 1.00 EA Availability: 1.00 EA Availability: 1.00 EA Price: $67.50 Price: $67.50 Non-Web Price: 
List Price: 30.00 Quantity: EA 

Vendor: TEXAS FURNACE CO. Manufacturer Part Number: 




1


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Where about in Canada are you?
If it is a pressure switch with a single outlet it is very generic. All you need to do is to google what your PS closes at in inches water column or better yet check the label on the PS.
It will say something like .8 " WC.
A pressure switch with a matching rating from a local HVAC suppy outlet will do the same job. You could even phone any of them with your " WC requirement to see what they have in stock.
Just look at the electrical connections on the PS for N/C & N/O and wire it back up the same way.
PS it's not uncommon for folks coming here to have later found out that miss wiring those connections is the reason a replacement doesn't work.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Furnace*

I am in Ontario , the pressure switch has two outlets or two hoses connect to it, it has 3 wires that connect too it..

The WC says 1.56... i did phone a dealer and he said he wants 160.00 for one, which i think is a mistake.... but I just found something amazing that was posted by hvac5646.

This company TEXAS FURNACE CO, is selling a furnace exactly like mine..The Clare brothers have not been making this furnace for many years, its like they have been resurrected..

I mean even the manual and part numbers are the same...maybe they would ship to me some parts.


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## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

A quick search on Google finds this switch, made by the Texas furnace company, for $65 online. I only checked one site, so you may even be able to find it for cheaper.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

can u send me the link for that,but if its , midwest parts doesnt look like they ship to canada....... the prices are all over the place...235.00 149.00 67.00 65.00


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

You are describing a differential PS which means one hose is negative pressure and the other one is positive pressure. 

Another option would be to attach both ends a 3 foot length of clear flexible plastic hose over each end of the two hoses that are now connected to the PS. Choose a dimension that allows those hose ends to just fit inside your hose. That hose then needs to be draped down and then come back up right beside itself. 
1/2 fill that hose with water. You've made yourself a manometer.
Turn on the furnace and measure the difference between the new water levels in the hose. If the hose water levels have more than an 1 1/2 of overall difference then you know you need a new PS. If the water difference is less than 1 1/2" then even a new PS *alone* will not help.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

the press switch is not the problem. it needs replacing, but is not the hole problem...


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Furnace*

I will change the pressure switch with a new one and a brand new draft inducer and if that dont help, then i will have to find the right people too find the problem,,I can hear the Inducer making a noise, the shaft is not tight, you can slide it a bit.
i will have a bit of money into it, but i can do it myself..


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

If the gasket shreads itself between the ID assy and the furnace when it's removed, then pick up a replacement gasket when you pick up the ID.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

use a 100% silicone caulk. last time I ordered an inducer for a 90% furnace they did not include it.

Don't use RTV as it will not come off. (you may have to remove the inducer for some reason) . The heat of the exhaust int hot high enough to affect the silicone caulk.


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## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

hvac5646 said:


> use a 100% silicone caulk. last time I ordered an inducer for a 90% furnace they did not include it.
> 
> Don't use RTV as it will not come off. (you may have to remove the inducer for some reason) . The heat of the exhaust int hot high enough to affect the silicone caulk.


When using RTV, spray the surfaces with cooking spray (not canola) and this will allow it to be removed later on without a whole lot of scraping.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

Good Info, Thanks, not sure what the gasket is like until i get it off, the inducer will take a few days too get here..

I wonder if those Inducer motors can be rebuilt..No screws too open it up , but just tabs you bend over too open up the back or front, i am wondering if they could put new bearings in them, and i could have a spare one...


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

consolidated inducer motors don't come with gaskets.

do not use RTV you will regret it.


silicone is great and you won't have to fight it if you take off the inducer.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

I just checked my slow moving stock...I got four inducer motors for that furnace

hope you didn't take a bath on the price...I would have treated you right had I known we still had them....along with ten grand of other Consolidated parts.


I am gonna shoot Uncle, he's in charge of that old school stuff....


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Furnace*

I sent you a PM, 

you dont happen to have a Pressure switch there??

Tridelta gas furnace pressure switch FS6055A-1792
1.56

The manual number is 4213000


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

Here an update..I have installed a new Inducer fan and a new Pressure switch.. This seemed too help my problem with the furnace not igniting, but there is a new issue.

I cycled the furnace 3 times, LED diagnostic light is Normal.. The first time i cycled the furnace it run perfect.. it had not been running for 2 weeks, it was cold.

The second time i run it, the inducer turned on then the igniter lit, and the gas valve opened and the gas ignited but 2 seconds later the gas shut off.. then the igniter lit again and the Gas valve opens and the gas ignites and the furnace does a normal cycle.

The 3rd time, was the same as the second except the gas shut off twice and the 3rd time it cycled normal...

It looks like when this started there was more then just one issue with the furnace..whats your thoughts...


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Flame sensor. Sand it with light sand paper or use a scothbrite dish pad. It will have a single wire to it and either look like a straight rod or bent like an L. It sits directly in the flame, letting the board know it's okay to continue sending gas. 

If it doesn't sense the flame then it shuts down the furnace, tries to relight and eventually it'll lock the furnace out for a few hours.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)




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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)




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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks for the help , I took it out and cleaned it, didnt look too bad. still didnt run, this time nothing just the inducer running...but i did discover something...The inducer is making this funny noise..and it turns out , there seems too be water back up in the condensation ... I took the drain hose off and let water out and, the furnace starts up

here is a picture of my furnace...behind the inducer you see the condensation trap...i wonder if water is backing up into the inducer fan and slowing it down..this is the noise i am hearing...the fan running through water... when i took the black hose off ( to the left of the Picture ) and drain the water out, the inducer sounded good and the furnace run... now i got to find out why the water is not going down and out too the small pump by the furnace..


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Remove and clean the trap. ( plastic piece the black hose attaches to.)


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

I took the hoses off and the condensation trap ( the small plastic bottle on the side of the furnace...and flushed it out. you cannot open this up its sealed..\

All i did was flush water through it, and there was some black **** i took out of it..
I am wondering if it was not getting enough flow through it,and it was backing up there, there was still water going too the condensation pump but maybe not the full amount..
anyways if this is a fix, it sure wasn't easy... 

The furnace did run all night without any problems.. ( this has never happened since it started having problems many weeks back....i am not convinced it is fixed but a very good sign.. I will see how the rest of the week goes..Thanks for all the help.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*condensation traps*

i am curious.. if i was to replace the condensation trap...do i need to get the exact same model.. or can i just buy one such as this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/York-Luxair...&ps=63&clkid=7460722032107705590#ht_738wt_911


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

Well the furnace has run good for a couple days , looks like the problem was fixed, Understanding how the furnace works not just electrical but the process of what happens to the condensation and when it doesnt function right, it `can also shut down the furnace and make it seem its an electrical issue..

So in this case, the furnace problem seem to change, which made it very confusing.. the first hint there is a condensation issue, was when i seen water in the hose connected to then pressure switch.

At times the furnace would cycle a few times and then not work... sit for a few days and then start up again, and then stop working.. 

The inducer would start and nothing else would happen, then the inducer would start and igniter would glow but gas would not lite.. 

Then there was times when the gas would ignite, for a couple secs`then go out and then try and ignite again, and then finally it would cycle then the next time the inducer would run and it would not go any farther.

Another strange thing was the inducer, at times it sounded good and then it sounded like the bearings where going out of the motor..

Now it all makes since.... The condensation trap had some blockage, so it could not handle the flow of condensation putting out by the furnace.. it would slowly start to back up.. as it back up condensation would get into the inducer fan , this is what i was hearing and thinking , the motor was going , this would also slow down the fan speed, as the water backed up it soon started to effect the pressure switch, this was was shutting down the furnace..

So the furnace would sit for a few days,with the furnace not running the condensation would gradually run through the condensation trap and everything would be clear..

I try the furnace and it cycles fine until the condesation starts to back up and the problems start all over again...

I dont like having furnace problems but i do injoying learning how they work.. I have learnt alot from this experience and have a few extra parts too boot..

Hope anybody reading this can learn from my mistakes..


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

The furnace is still working good, its been a few days now...if i ever have problems again, i think i will be able to zero in on the problem easier knowing how this furnace really works, plus i have a duplicate of every part on this furnace..

I had bought a used Furnace of the same model and took all the parts off it and put them in boxes, stripping it down gave me knowledge of how too install the part, such as the blower motor.I should be able to maintain this furnace for another 4 years hopefully.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Furnace Problem*

I have a furnace that the gas ignites and in 2 secs shuts off, it does this sequence over and over again.. does not lock out and stop, and the circuit board is not showing in fault codes.

Venting is clear , gas is on

I have a new flame sensor on order, i just cleaned the old one, but no luck
any thoughts on what else could cause this..


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

What about the Blower? If the Blower is not working the ignition circuit will not complete.
If the problem turns out to be the blower motor then that is often changed out by DIY.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Post the year/ brand & model.
On most furnaces, without a fault code showing up it would be a bad ground, faulty thermostat circuit or board.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

Its a 1996 Clare HE gas furnace CHU-072 -NH3A

I dont know how a blower motor would stop a furnace from running, maybe you mean the inducer draft motor..

I will change the circuit board and see if that helps, start eliminating the parts that may cause this...

These old clare furnaces have been born again, Texas furnaces bought the rights to make them again under a different name..By the looks of the parts list , nothing has changed..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

I told you it was the valve in your other thread. Believe me now?


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

...and for Chrissakes...I also told you that furnace had a safety recall on it too.

You trying to kill your self?


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

what valve are you talking about , if you mean the gas valve it has already been changed and i dont, remember you saying about a safety recall, be more specific, why is there a safety recall on this furnace, and where did you get that information.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

Before i tear out a good furnace i need to have evidence of why there was a recall on this furnace , if there was , i question that, because Texas Furnaces are making the exact same furnace.. when i download the parts lists it the same parts that are in mine.. even the parts numbers are the same.. so if there was a recall, why are they being made again

you may have this furnace mixed up with something else...


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

03-07-2012, 12:52 PM #*9* hvac5646 
Part of the Clover Leaf

Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Burbs of Detroit Mi.
Posts: 798 









*furnace problem*


Quote:
Originally Posted by *hvactech126*  
_that furnace is a consolidated industries design that a number of manufacturers have produced. I think the main manufacturer was texas furnace. You furnace probably looks like this with the door on.







Also that furnace uses a honeywell smart valve..... known for problems._


That furnace was recalled!!!!

Texas Furnace only bought the design and tooling from Consolidated after it went belly up.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

A picture does no good, if your going to say my furnace has been recalled you need too address how you came to that conclusion... hear-say , is there a report of it on the internet,and when was it recalled... Clare has been out of business for years...i am not sure what your trying to do..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

*YOU HAVE A CONSOLIDATED FURNACE DESPITE WHAT THE NAME PLATE SAYS*

CHECK THE MODEL STICKER AND YOU WILL SEE CONSOLIDATED INDUSTRIES PRINTED THERE.



*
*

*NEWS from CPSC*

*U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission*
​ Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Originally issued September 27, 2000, Last revised July 10, 2002 
Release #00-190 * CPSC Consumer Hotline: (800) 638-2772 *
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908 *Note: Most recently updated 07/10/02 to announce settlement of private litigation.
Please also note the other updates (posted 01/25/2001 & 03/06/2002) at the bottom of
this page and the July 2001 recall announcement for certain private labeled furnaces.*​ *CPSC Warns About Defective Furnaces in California*

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is warning consumers in California that certain gas-fired horizontal forced-air furnaces manufactured by Consolidated Industries (formerly Premier Furnace Company) present a substantial risk of fire. There have been about 30 reports of fires and damage to homes associated with these furnaces, as well as failures of burners and heat exchangers that can lead to fires. The furnaces were installed exclusively in California.

Consolidated manufactured approximately 190,000 of these furnaces from 1983 through 1994 under many different brand names. Most of the furnaces were manufactured under the Premier/Consolidated labels. All of the furnaces can be identified by the fact that they are equipped with steel control rods installed above the burners. These steel rods were required to satisfy California air quality regulations for nitrous oxide emissions.

Many of these furnaces are still in use. Normally, the furnaces are installed in attics, although some may be installed in crawl spaces. The Commission is warning consumers to have their gas-fired furnaces inspected by a licensed heating contractor to determine whether the furnaces are subject to this safety alert. The contractor also should determine whether the burners and/or heat exchangers of units are damaged, or whether wood under or near the furnaces shows signs of damage, such as charring or blackening. If this is the case, the furnace should be replaced immediately or repaired.

Because Consolidated is currently in bankruptcy liquidation, the availability of repair parts is at this time unresolved. However, there is on-going private litigation which could enable consumers to recover at least some of their out-of-pocket expenses for replacement or repair of the furnaces.

Suggestions for improving the fire safety of all horizontal forced-air furnaces in attics are: 



[*]Protect the wood deck or rafters on which the furnace is mounted by covering it with a non-combustible material such as cement board that extends a minimum of 12 inches past the side of the furnace.
[*]Provide an air space beneath the furnace. A licensed contractor can perform this work and can offer the homeowner several ways to accomplish this.
[*]Make sure the furnace is installed correctly and serviced at least annually. The inspection should include a safety inspection of the burner assembly and heat exchanger.
[*]Install an ionization-type smoke detector inside the attic to provide an early warning of smoke or fire.
 For additional information, consumers should contact CPSC's toll- free hotline at (800) 638-2772.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

And the winner is......hvac5646!! 

Spend the money now and save yourself and your home. My own residence burned down due to a Consolidated furnace. You want to see the pics, let me know.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

SEE THE STICKER ON THE RIGHT OVER THE CONTROL BOARD?
IT WILL SAY CONSOLIDATED, EVEN THOUGH YOUR NAME PLATE SAYS CLARE, YOU HAVE A CONSOLIDATED FURNACE.
A LOT OF NAMES DID NOT MAKE THE RECALL LIST BECAUSE THERE WERE JUST TO MANY OF THEM OR THEY WERE JUST OVER LOOKED.
YOUR'S IS ONE OF THEM.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Well, rick....?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Threads merged.

Same furnace, please keep the questions in one thread, less confusing for everyone.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Been, I reported this thread as being dangerous. No action was taken.

Any ideas why?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

It's not dangerous, it's informative.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If the thread is closed, he may go elsewhere and they may not spot the furnace safety problem, so no safety in closing it.
Left open he may learn something, as well as other posters that may have the same furnace.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Hey HVAC5646
The warning seems to be just for these horizontal furnaces produced for and installed in California and Nevada up to around 1992 and only those with the suffix "X" at the end of the serial number for nox rods.

Are there exceptions to these listed conditions?


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Yes there are. It used to be on the net in one court document....now the information on the entire recall is spread out among over a thousand different (my best guess) documents that list only a small portion of the original court document.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

beenthere said:


> If the thread is closed, he may go elsewhere and they may not spot the furnace safety problem, so no safety in closing it.
> Left open he may learn something, as well as other posters that may have the same furnace.


I can't agree. I think it will encourage the posters to think furnace recalls are not to be taken seriously.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

I dont understand why you are so quick to right off my Clare furnace without knowing the facts..
Reading what you posted mine is not in that category..



> Consolidated manufactured approximately 190,000 of these furnaces from 1983 through 1994 under many different brand names


Mine was made in 1996




> . All of the furnaces can be identified by the fact that they are equipped with steel control rods installed above the burners. These steel rods were required to satisfy California air quality regulations for nitrous oxide emissions.


Mine does not have steel control rods above the Burners.




> Consolidated manufactured approximately 190,000 of these furnaces from 1983 through 1994 under many different brand names. Most of the furnaces were manufactured under the Premier/Consolidated labels.


There is no place on this furnace that says it was manufactured by consolidated industries .

It says it was made by CLARE BROTHERS WATERLOO ONTARIO CANADA

So now can you approve this furnace, you have not convinced me it was part of the recall.. if it was i would shut the gas off and pull the plug..


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

> And the winner is......hvac5646!!
> 
> Spend the money now and save yourself and your home. My own residence burned down due to a Consolidated furnace. You want to see the pics, let me know.



There is no winners, this is not a game, and no i don't want too see pictures, I am as safe as any professional, if this furnace was part of the recall, then it would be sitting in the garage at this moment. There still is nothing here that tells me it is.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

I forgot you are in Canada. That IS a Consolidated furnace. I can't help it if your country has some import rule that disallows the inclusion of the TRUE manufacturers name on the model sticker.

And the recall has no legal binding in another country.

Go ahead...kill your self. You say you changed all the parts for the combustion of the burners ....I'd almost bet your heat exchangers gone.

You have been told by two pros that you have a dangerous furnace and you still won't listen.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

wow !!! guess you cant read very well ,,,you posted the form saying the furnaces was made from 1983 to 1994 

did you read mine was made in 1996 ????

and did you read 

Mine does not have steel control rods above the Burners....

i really dont know what your talking about here ( this you must have just made up...

You say you changed all the parts for the combustion of the burners ....I'd almost bet your heat exchangers gone.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

> You say you changed all the parts for the combustion of the burners ....I'd almost bet your heat exchangers gone.


I wonder when this furnace became dangerous, been in the house for 16 yrs

hvac5646 you have been so negative from the start , i just dont trust your judgement anymore, I could have the best HVAC tech come in and go over this Clare furnace and give it the OK, and you would still have an reason too right it off..You have a real problem with DIY.. I guess you must feel you are way above them..


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

I did spend some time trying to find a recall notice for Clare brothers without much success. I could spend some time on this on an off day but on a usual working day????
Except for HVAC5646 posts, I'd have no inkling that Clare Brothers furnaces have any recall to worry about.

You would think that in this day and age of computers that there should be one official safety organization or a central registry for HVAC equipment recalls.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

I have had a few HVAC guys in over the years and nobody said anything about a recall, they told me it was a good furnace..

There are no steel control rods over the burners, which seemed too be the reason for the recall...

I will keep this furnace, because there is nothing to say otherwise..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

As I said How, the recall was under the name Consolidated Ind with several labels they manufactured for. A lot got left off but fall under the recall because they were mfg by Consolidated.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> I have had a few HVAC guys in over the years and nobody said anything about a recall, they told me it was a good furnace..
> 
> There are no steel control rods over the burners, which seemed too be the reason for the recall...
> 
> I will keep this furnace, because there is nothing to say otherwise..



Your in Canada, a US recall does not affect Canadian products unless your government issues it own recall.

The techs in Canada would not be aware of a US recall anymore than a US tech would about Canada.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

All of the furnaces can be identified by the fact that they are equipped with steel control rods installed above the burners. These steel rods were required to satisfy California air quality regulations for nitrous oxide emissions.



. IT SAYS ALL FURNACES CAN BE IDENTIFIED by the fact that they are equipped with steel control rods 

mine does not have any steel control rods...


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> I wonder when this furnace became dangerous, been in the house for 16 yrs
> 
> hvac5646 you have been so negative from the start , i just dont trust your judgement anymore, I could have the best HVAC tech come in and go over this Clare furnace and give it the OK, and you would still have an reason too right it off..You have a real problem with DIY.. I guess you must feel you are way above them..


Well, that has got to be one of the most liable-ist and false statements I have ever read here.

I was not negative in the least, I did make you aware that furnace had been recalled. You didn't seem to be concerned so I even PMed to help you locate parts locally at a discount.

If i had a problem with DIY I would not have busted my hump to locate a dealer near the Ambassador Bridge that runs to Canada from Detroit, but when I PMed you you blew off my efforts and went to another source.
And if i had a prob with DIY I would not be here.

Also you have so far replaced the valve, the inducer, the pressure switch and have ordered a sensor/igniter.

This is a sixteen year old furnace and you have sunk almost half the cost of a new piece of equipment. 

Now, to me, a wise man does not throw good money after bad, so as far as I am concerned your credibility is on the line.

Given your furnace uses an aluminized steel primary and secondary that was covered by only a twenty year warranty, it is at best a fifteen year furnace. And also given that the Consolidated recall was about inferior heat exchanger material causing fires, of which your furnace is made....well I just can't take you seriously.

We get guys from Pro forums who come here to prank the DIY pros by masquerading as HOs with furnace problems. I am not positive that is you but I can't be sure.

So your negative comments about me have no value or relevance.

Make your self happy and keep ignoring pro advice.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

Here are the models effect by the recall...CLARE BROTHERS IS NOT EVEN ON THE LIST


Models Affected
BRAND NAME
MODEL NUMBER
Addison
GHC
Amana
GSE
American Best
HCC
American Standard
THN
Bard
ESG
Century
GSH
Comfort Aire
GSH
Coleman
2505-2509B
Consolidated
HAC/HCC
Franklin Electric
HAC/HCC
Goettl
HCC
Goodman
HAC/HCC
GMC
HAC/HCC
Hamilton Electric
HAC/HCC
Heat Controller
GSH
Janitrol
HAC/HCC
Johnstone
HAC/HCC
Keeprite
HAC/HCC
Kenmore
735
Liberty
HAC/HCC
Magic Chef
ENG
P.F.C.
HAC/HCC
Premier
HAC/HCC
Sears
735
Sunbelt
HAC/HCC
Sunburst
HAC/HCC
Sundial
GH
Sun Glow
HAC/HCC
Trane
THN
Weatherking
GHC


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> Here are the models effect by the recall...CLARE BROTHERS IS NOT EVEN ON THE LIST
> 
> 
> Models Affected
> ...


This is only a partial list ....there is also Tech IV and Quatro. and many more


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Clare may not be on the list but Consolidated is and you furnace has been confirmed as a Consolidated by another Pro.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Lol*

LOL you got an answer for everything, there really isn't any way too get through to you..
1. This Clare brothers Furnace was made here in Canada, it was not made in the USA and shipped across the border

Alot of the Consolidated Industry furnaces where installed in an attic and all can be identified for the 4th time.. STEAL CONTROL BARS OVER THE BURNER


to answer your post about the parts i put on... new inducer, 233.00 new pressure switch 85.00 new igniter/ flame sensor 32.00

The Gas Valve i already had from the other furnace ( less then 5 months old )

Total 350.00

New Carrier Furnace $ 2430.00 plus install and taxes 

Far from 1/2 the cost of a new one.. your furnaces must be pretty cheap there.. besides i would spend 500.00 plus before i call in a HVAC, 

I know what they do... they buy a honeywell gas valve for 140.00 and charge the homeowner 300.00 for it plus add the labour.....I have been there, never again..

That's why i DIY





> Given your furnace uses an aluminized steel primary and secondary that was covered by only a twenty year warranty, it is at best a fifteen year furnace. And also given that the Consolidated recall was about inferior heat exchanger material causing fires, of which your furnace is made....well I just can't take you seriously.



wrong again.. its stainless steel ... and Consolidated never made this furnace.. you got it all wrong you just assume things.. not something a so called pro should be doing ..




> We get guys from Pro forums who come here to prank the DIY pros by masquerading as HOs with furnace problems. I am not positive that is you but I can't be sure.



An interesting statement, but why would somebody really bother doing that..they must have a boring life


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*



> Make your self happy and keep ignoring pro advice.


I am just not convinced this furnace is what you think it is.. you say its made by Consolidated Industry 

and i see no proof that it is...if you type in Furnace Recalls Canada.. you get Lennox, carrier... nothing on Clare brothers...this Furnace was made in Canada not the USA.. 

I don't mind excepting a pro's advice , but you don't give me any proof , that we are talking about the same furnaces that caught fire \

there is nothing in writing saying this furnace has been recalled and nothing telling me it was made in the USA by Consolidated ..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> LOL you got an answer for everything, there really isn't any way too get through to you..
> 1. This Clare brothers Furnace was made here in Canada, it was not made in the USA and shipped across the border That is not correct. The US and and Canada enjoy a healthy exchange of HVAC equipment. There is a plant in Sarnia that is a furnace mfg. Consolidated made furnaces for a great number of other manufacturers just as the recall list shows. Yours was just another
> 
> Alot of the Consolidated Industry furnaces where installed in an attic and all can be identified for the 4th time.. STEAL CONTROL BARS OVER THE BURNER
> ...



You are so wrong about the heat exchanger. 

You say I have all the answers to your denials: Yeah, I do. I get paid to know them.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> I am just not convinced this furnace is what you think it is.. you say its made by Consolidated Industry Now you think we pros on this board are completely clueless?
> 
> _*You bought parts from a supplier under Consolidated part numbers I and the other supplied *_. The more you post the deeper you bury your self
> 
> ...


Tell me how you bought the parts.....by Consolidated part numbers. That makes it a Consolidated.


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

hvac5646 said:


> Tell me how you bought the parts.....by Consolidated part numbers. That makes it a Consolidated.


hey man your not gonna win.... I know the furnace well.... worked on many.... the owner of the furnace says its fine so I guess it must be.....


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*

why dont you work on this furnace...











SAME AS MINE ...The parts list and install manual is THE SAME AS MINE 

THIS MEANS .. NOTHING HAS CHANGED 

So my furnace is suppose to be dangerous, and Texas furnaces are still selling them across the USA and parts of Canada..

WOULD THE CPSC ALLOW THIS COMPANY TO CONTINUE TO SELL AN UNSAFE FURNACE..

FOR THE PEOPLE HAVING TROUBLE READING.. THIS FURNACE IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS MINE , ALL PARTS AND NUMBERS ARE IDENTICAL.. FURNACE SIZE AND HEATER EXCHANGERS HAVE NOT CHANGED.. I COULD ORDER A NEW HEAT EXCHANGER,IF I WANTED TOO , VERY SAME PART NUMBERS.

So you want me to red tag my furnace on a internet speculation

when i get a real pro tech in that says this furnace is unsafe then i will start to believe it is.. you even bet my heat exchanger is bad, you cannot diagnose that over the internet.. pro`s dont do that .. thats just guessing


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## carmon (May 8, 2010)

I dont have trouble reading at all..... have worked on many furnaces like yours .... hope it lasts many more years for you...:thumbsup:


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am sure Clare Brothers sold many of these furnaces across Canada, and i believe you worked on many of them.

I also believe there are good HVAC techs and there are ones that are quick too want too install one of those shiny brand new furnaces..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> why dont you work on this furnace...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This going to take a while ...bring a lunch Ricky.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

carmon said:


> hey man your not gonna win.... I know the furnace well.... worked on many.... the owner of the furnace says its fine so I guess it must be.....


And our family business sold so many of them in the 90's Consolidated awarded us Dealer Of The Year Award. Can you say the same?

My Uncle knows Consolidated better than anyone on this board and he taught me what he knows.

And just to edify you, the OP has changed almost every part in the furnace...and with the sensor/ignitor he has on order it will complete all the controls that initiate burner combustion...
you'd know that if you'd read the entire thread which you should have done.
So I am taking it with a grain of salt when you say he knows if it's running well and safe or not.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

I could never proof you wrong because as soon as i do you decide to spin another thread. instead of saying, oh yes thats right,

for eg, you tell me too look at the Label you will see Consolidated Industry on the label , when i show you a picture ( which was good because its there for all too see.. 
U say its not uncommon for them to leave it off... That's Bull. you are just back paddling,

We get many products from the USA, and nobody leaves there company name off there product, if you check it is illegal to export a product,with no name and no address of where it was manufactured.

I will give you something ....more then you would give me.. 

Heat exchanger ..Is AL 29 the Secondary is 4c stainless steel

There you going spinning a new web



> Texas Furnace bought the tooling and the specs and are now producing the same design with improvement in materials that Consolidated didn't use.


You have Absolutely no idea if Texas furnace improved the materials, this is a speculation by you, you are not apart of the company are you?? you where not there when they went over the design where you ? where you involved in the tooling and manufacturing of each of the parts..

If they improved any of the parts then why is the primary and secondary heat exchanger still Al 29 and 4C stainless, ( info from Texas Furnace )the same as the way mine was made 16 yrs ago, 

go spinning


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

rick31797 said:


> I could never proof you wrong because as soon as i do you decide to spin another thread. instead of saying, oh yes thats right,
> 
> for eg, you tell me too look at the Label you will see Consolidated Industry on the label , when i show you a picture ( which was good because its there for all too see..
> U say its not uncommon for them to leave it off... That's Bull. you are just back paddling, Never said it was common to leave it off. I said Canada must have different labeling rules than the US.
> ...


We still use the Texas Furnace version of your old Consolidated model. I have contacts in the company and have been on the factory tour more than once.
I know how it's made and I know when somebody is trying to snow me. That is what you are doing.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Also you, live in Ontario. It has not been that warm in your area where you can get by with out a furnace.
And you have been working to get your Consolidated Furnace running since Feb. Who you kidding?

And when I mentioned the gas valve you said you used an old one. 

We know what is wrong with this picture.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

> Also you, live in Ontario. It has not been that warm in your area where you can get by with out a furnace.
> And you have been working to get your Consolidated Furnace running since Feb. Who you kidding?
> 
> And when I mentioned the gas valve you said you used an old one.
> ...




See this is a perfect eg, on how you ASSUME THINGS... you assume we have no heat without our Clare gas furnace....you must realize there are other sources of heat..

You assume since my furnace broke, that we could not get by without a furnace..I guess you do not look at the weather reports for eastern Ontario, you just assume

You assume by pictures that my furnace is on a recall list even though the recall list in the USA or Canada does not even mention Clare Brother's AS IT SHOULD..

On the recall list i did see, as per the dates effected,1983 to 1994 my furnace is 2 years newer then what was on the list provided..

I know your going to spin and say there are other lists out there somewhere in la la land.

As for the secondary heat exchange , i know stainless when i am looking at it The Clare Brothers didnt lie on there information sheet saying this is what they used.. 


When all this started, i had trust in your information, but the more you talk the less i trust you, I know you jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts. And you assume you know the answers..I have to wonder how many furnaces you replaced needlessly by assuming they should be replaced.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

CAPTAIN CANUCK


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Rick31797

Our business is but a stones throw from your location. And we watch the whether of the day just like any smart business man would, and it includes Ontario.

Hvac5646 is right. so please leave well enough alone. You only disrupting a normally orderly forum with all this chest beating. You are not making any body but yourself happy by carrying on in the manner you are.

You attacked and slandered Hvac5646 who did nothing but answer your questions in a professional manner.

Please do not cross the line with statements like ".._*I have to wonder how many furnaces you replaced needlessly by assuming they should be replaced" *_in open forum. You are libeling good people when you do.

Thank you.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The ignore feature may come in handy for some.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*furnace*



> The ignore feature may come in handy for some.


This thread is closed


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Randall at Texas furnace confirmed that, indeed, their Consolidated based 90% does not have a stainless steel heat exchanger; never did either.

To further clarify, the furnace does not have a recuperative cell, let alone a secondary heat exchanger.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

rick31797 said:


> This thread is closed


If you report the thread and ask for it to be closed. Then it will be closed. but just posting that it is closed, doesn't close it.


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## rick31797 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Clare furnace*

MR RANDALL is probably right but he not talking about the Clare Furnace i have here.

I was also talking to Bardon supplies ( EST 1969 ) where i bought the furnace in 1996.They told me the furnace was never recalled, that by law any recalls they have to notify there customers, he remembers the Clare Furnace well, he been there for 21 yrs, said they sold many of them in there day..So this is good enough to me that, there is nothing wrong with this Canadian made Clare Brothers Furnace.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Thread has gone too far down hill. Closed.


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