# Throttle Body Service for 24K miles subaru? Was it needed?



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Throttle body service at 24,000 miles almost 100% not needed. Only do it if the car is running poorly and other issues are ruled out - OR - if the service manual maintenance schedule requires it to maintain warranty. This is a standard dealer $$ making ploy. Never heard of an ac filter. But then I have never owned a Volvo. Good luck with that. And if he means the accumulator/drier, which does serve as a bit of a filter that is 100% not needed unless the ac system has been depressurized and opened up for repair.

The key message here is look at your owners manual and check to see what the maintenance schedule REQUIRES. Unless you have a problem that's all you need to do. And at 24,000 miles most of those will only be "check or inspects".


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## Feetsdr (Jul 1, 2019)

@raylo32 THANKS! I can't find it, but some page I saw / the corp person referred to called it 'AC filter'. This is a subaru by the way, not volvo.

This page 






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says 'Replace air cleaner element' The dealer called it 'cabin air filter'.

Gotta show your note to my wife - it's 'her' car. Had no performance problems.

Won't be back to that dealer.

What's your thoughts on my thinking?

Having bought the top line corp extended warranty - no deductible, good for 8 years AND the maintenance agreement, I figured dealers would want a customer like us. We aren't going to balk when we bring the car in for 'just an oil change' and they pitch wipers. Or air filters that ARE needed. We prepaid for the maintenance.

And when something breaks that is covered by the extended warranty, we're going to say fix it. Someone else might balk - 'i'm selling it soon' or 'not a big deal / I'll deal with that'.

ie a dealer would want to keep us / not bother squeezing us for unneeded things / throttle body service and risk alienating a lucrative customer for the long term?


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## Feetsdr (Jul 1, 2019)

Or is it like health insurance? The dealership might charge $x for the 24K service to a customer walking in the door. BUt for a maint. agreement customer, corp reimburses them 1/2 X? ie I'm not really all that lucrative?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

LOL... my bad...but I have never had Subaru, either! Go to Subaru USA web page and find your owner manual. Or visit a Subaru forum. The maintenance requirements are in there.

"air cleaner element" is almost certainly the engine air filter and 24k miles is about right. Maybe also the cabin air filter at the same mileage. But you need to look at your manual.

But is absolutely crazy to pay a dealer to change these filters. It will cost you 5 to 10x what you would pay at the parts store. But since you have some sort of prepaid service plan I guess you should use it/them. But those are no bargains either. And as far as whatever they are proposing just ask them what is included with your plan and what isn't and what the cost delta is. If I were you I'd thoroughly read up on the plan first or these guys might try to bill you for stuff that should be covered.




Feetsdr said:


> Or is it like health insurance? The dealership might charge $x for the 24K service to a customer walking in the door. BUt for a maint. agreement customer, corp reimburses them 1/2 X? ie I'm not really all that lucrative?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I just looked at Subaru.com and the owners manual says the service schedule is contained in the "Warranty and maintenance booklet". I didn't find it there but I was able to find it on a Subaru forum. See the first post in the linked thread for the pdf file.

BTW, the air cleaner element (engine air filter) isn't due until 30,000 miles unless you have been driving through dust storms. And the HVAC AC filter (that has to be the cabin air filter) is due at 24,000. There is no requirement ever for throttle body service.


2020 Warranty and Maintenance Booklet | Subaru Outback Forums


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## Feetsdr (Jul 1, 2019)

This has been a production! The guy called my wife saying it needs engine, cabin air and throttle body service besides the oil change. She calls me. I call the 'advisor'. He didn't see that we have the maintenance plan (even though they did the 6, 12 and 18K service. 5 minutes on hold. OK we found it. he tells me one of the filters is covered. Still have to pay for the other filter and we recommend cabin air and throttle body. (I have ADD / got interupted with other work when wife called and lost track of what filter was / wasn't covered.

I call subaru - I thought both filters were incluided (didn't realize it's only included on certain services).

The rep says the cabin air isn't covered. Just the AC filter. 

I think they are the same? 

She says I'm not sure, let me check.

My sr. rep says the AC filter is different than the cabin air filter.

I google / can't find anything about AC filter on the web... I push the point to speak to the sr. rep, a manager, or just recheck with the sr. that she heard right. No,

I ask the rep for a link to the maintenace agreement. She said she doesn't have one... it's in your car. at the dealer... where I am not.

I hang up and call service manager at dealer - why did it take long to find my maint. agreement? the advisor is 1 month into job. And we look up our maint. agreements since most people buy that / its cheaper. But we did find yours.

All that and I lost track of different filters / what was / wasn't included. 45 minutes lost.

Found this on page 28 of the doc you sent (thank you!)


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

That has to be the cabin air filter. Not sure why they want to change the engine air filter at 24k instead of the required 30k... unless they inspected it and it is really dirty. But doubtful, IMO. The throttle body service is a scam.

A lesson here... Never buy dealer service plans and NEVER go to a dealer for routine service. They don't call them stealerships for nothing.

Good luck to you.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

throttle body cleaning is generally not needed until at least 100K miles, even then it wouldn't be absolutely necessary,

if you use a good air filter, and you change it when you should, your throttle body should not get very dirty,

all you need to do is hold the butterfly valve open and wipe it with a rag,

sometimes i dampen a cloth with a very small amount of gas to clean it with,


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## LearningTrades (12 mo ago)

Feetsdr said:


> @raylo32 THANKS! I can't find it, but some page I saw / the corp person referred to called it 'AC filter'. This is a subaru by the way, not volvo.
> 
> This page
> 
> ...


Dealerships will always dick you around once youve prepaid or paid. Warranty or not you are not their priority


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## Elmer-Dallas Texas (9 mo ago)

For what it is worth, I believe if you use top-tier gasoline that includes a detergent you will not need throttle body cleaning. That is my experience. 
You can Google top-tier gas.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Elmer-Dallas Texas said:


> For what it is worth, I believe if you use top-tier gasoline that includes a detergent you will not need throttle body cleaning. That is my experience.
> You can Google top-tier gas.


Huh? 

Gas does not go through the throttle body, only air does


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Thomas said:


> Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke.


That is a silly comment to make when it comes to vehicle servicing,

So you should never change your engine oil as long as the engine is running fine? 

Never change your transmission oil? Coolant? air filter? belts? 

Your cars must not last very long


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

No, basic PM gets done unless you are stupid. It is maintenance, not fixing something. Throttle body cleaning, the subject of the post, at low mileage is not necessary unless there is a specific problem with it, hence, it is considered dirty/broken.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Exactly. TB cleaning in absence of a problem is not routine maintenance, it is the equivalent of a doctor performing unnecessary surgery just to pad his bank account.



Old Thomas said:


> No, basic PM gets done unless you are stupid. It is maintenance, not fixing something. Throttle body cleaning, the subject of the post, at low mileage is not necessary unless there is a specific problem with it, hence, it is considered dirty/broken.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> TB cleaning in absence of a problem is not routine maintenance


Uuuhhh, yes it is,

Throttle body gets dirty, it needs cleaning, that is the definition of maintenance, 

That's like saying you should never change your air filter unless you have a problem,

It gets dirty, it needs changing


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Uhh, no it isn't routine maintenance. If it was routine maintenance the mfg would have included it in the periodic service schedule.



pumpkin11 said:


> Uuuhhh, yes it is,
> 
> Throttle body gets dirty, it needs cleaning, that is the definition of maintenance,
> 
> ...


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> Uhh, no it isn't routine maintenance. If it was routine maintenance the mfg would have included it in the periodic service schedule.


It is included,

That is why the dealer suggested it


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

LOL... No, it isn't listed for his car or for any car I have ever owned. What dealer do you work for?? 



pumpkin11 said:


> It is included,
> 
> That is why the dealer suggested it


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> LOL... No, it isn't listed for his car or for any car I have ever owned. What dealer do you work for??


The only thing I can think of is, some manufacturers suggest running top tier fuel(www.toptiergas.com). It's this whole program almost no one knows about, certain branded stations must source their fuel from approved suppliers that mix in some specified blend of detergents to help keep the engine clean from carbon build up. If not using top tier fuel they suggest periodically using a fuel additive.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Fuel additives mainly for injectors. As noted above the throttle body is upstream and only passes air to the intake manifold, although it can see some fuel vapor on the inside of it under some conditions. 



LawrenceS said:


> The only thing I can think of is, some manufacturers suggest running top tier fuel(www.toptiergas.com). It's this whole program almost no one knows about, certain branded stations must source their fuel from approved suppliers that mix in some specified blend of detergents to help keep the engine clean from carbon build up. If not using top tier fuel they suggest periodically using a fuel additive.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Grab engine air filter. Place it between your eyes and the sun. If you can see light, it's ok. If not, replace it. Pull cabin filter and look at it. If it's dirty, replace it. Throttle body cleaning around 100,000 miles. If you can see dark crud around the throttle body and blade, gas won't clean that as well as carb cleaner and an old toothbrush. Just turn on ignition and have someone press the throttle down to the floor and scrub away. Do not open the throttle body manually as it may damage the unit. Start engine and it may run rough for a min, rev it a few times and all it well.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And that kind of problem will mainly present at idle when the TB is almost closed. When it is open underway a little crud will make no difference.

Good tip on not tweaking it open manually to scrub it. I guess that would risk messing up the TPS sensor? I wonder if my Xtool bidirectional scanner can command open the TB? I'll have to try that someday.



Brainbucket said:


> Throttle body cleaning around 100,000 miles. If you can see dark crud around the throttle body and blade, gas won't clean that as well as carb cleaner and an old toothbrush. Just turn on ignition and have someone press the throttle down to the floor and scrub away. Do not open the throttle body manually as it may damage the unit. Start engine and it may run rough for a min, rev it a few times and all it well.


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> Fuel additives mainly for injectors. As noted above the throttle body is upstream and only passes air to the intake manifold, although it can see some fuel vapor on the inside of it under some conditions.


In the automotive industry fuel system service/throttle body cleaning is often used interchangeably, most consumers are not educated and hell most techs are not educated so terminology is often jumbled or incorrectly used.

If it's port injected fuel system additives also clean the backs of valves and the intake ports. Not commenting to their effectiveness just the targeted goal.

The fuel system/throttle body services are usually some form of 2 or 3 part kit, 1 bottle goes in the tank the other is either a pressurized fogger with an s nozzle that hooks into the throttle body if accessible or a vacuum fed system hooked up to the brake booster hose, some kits also contain a third part which is an aerosol carb cleaner to specifically spray the throttle body.

There are some more niche setups that also directly connect to a fuel rail but they are no where near as common as the other ones I mentioned.

As for the need or effectiveness, I can't say. But I can say carbon build up can be an issue from personal experience especially on direct injection motors. As an example my 2011 sportage 2.0 turbo direct injection had a longblock done in fall of 17 at 32k I think, in spring of 19 at 39k my starter went and I had to pull the intake manifold to access it, there was a significant carbon build up in the intake valves. Since I had the manifold off and was waiting a couple days for the starter I just soaked all the intake ports in carb cleaner to clean them up. Based on that experience I doubt the services offered by shops have anywhere near the cleaning effect of what I did but I do understand the concept of doing them periodically as preventative maintenance especially based on the carbon build up I saw in under 10k miles.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

raylo32 said:


> And that kind of problem will mainly present at idle when the TB is almost closed. When it is open underway a little crud will make no difference.
> 
> Good tip on not tweaking it open manually to scrub it. I guess that would risk messing up the TPS sensor? I wonder if my Xtool bidirectional scanner can command open the TB? I'll have to try that someday.


No. It screws up the throttle body motor or gears. If your scanner will make it open, that's fine. The pcm is commanding it to open just like pressing on accelerator pedal.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I assume that would only be for throttle by wire TBs. Many are probably still spring-and-cable operated with a TPMS sensor which you should be able to just press open with no ill effects. I believe my Tacoma is like that. My Vette OTOH is surely throttle by wire with servo motor and gears.

BTW, my Tacoma just clicked over 125,000 miles and has never had the TB cleaned. Still idles and runs like it was brand new.




Brainbucket said:


> If your scanner will make it open, that's fine. The pcm is commanding it to open just like pressing on accelerator pedal.


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## LawrenceS (Oct 21, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> I assume that would only be for throttle by wire TBs. Many are probably still spring-and-cable operated with a TPMS sensor which you should be able to just press open with no ill effects. I believe my Tacoma is like that.  My Vette OTOH is surely throttle by wire with servo motor and gears.
> 
> BTW, my Tacoma just clicked over 125,000 miles and has never had the TB cleaned. Still idles and runs like it was brand new.


Pretty sure almost every vehicle in the past 10 maybe even up to 15 years(i think the last Honda with a throttle cable was like 05-06) has been electronic throttle actuation.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yeah, there is a chance my 2009 Tacoma is throttle by wire, I suppose. I need to have a look at it. That's another part of the vehicle that I have never had to do any work on so I dunno. My 2012 Triumph Tiger motorcycle is cable-spring-TPS. Pretty sure they went to throttle by wire some time after that model year whereas some Yamaha were sooner.



LawrenceS said:


> Pretty sure almost every vehicle in the past 10 maybe even up to 15 years(i think the last Honda with a throttle cable was like 05-06) has been electronic throttle actuation.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Feetsdr said:


> says 'Replace air cleaner element' The dealer called it 'cabin air filter'.


Run away, and never go back to that stealership! If they don't know the the difference between the air filter for the engine and the cabin air filter for air coming through the vents inside the car, don't trust them to do ANYTHING to your vehicle.


raylo32 said:


> And the HVAC AC filter (that has to be the cabin air filter) is due at 24,000.


I just replaced the cabin air filters in my truck for the first time, with 160k miles on it ($6 from Amazon; took 5 minutes start to finish). Last week I replace the cabin air filter in our minivan for the first time in at least 120k miles ($8 from Amazon; took 2 minutes). They were both fairly full of leaves and pine needles, and there's noticeably more air movement from the vents now. Changing them at 24k still seems a little ridiculous, though.


Feetsdr said:


> The rep says the cabin air isn't covered. Just the AC filter.
> I think they are the same?


I think in this context "AC" means "air cleaner", as in the the one that filters the air going into the engine.


raylo32 said:


> Yeah, there is a chance my 2009 Tacoma is throttle by wire, I suppose.


I was surprised to discover my '06 Impala, '08 Sienna, and '09 Frontier are all drive-by-wire.


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