# new home with visible drywall seams



## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

New to this forum and my first post is not a DIY one:whistling2:. It has to do with industry standards.

We are having a house built and now that the ceiling is painted I can notice numerous seams. It may just be that the priming wasn't done well as it seems to be more of a variance in color but on the ceiling we can't run our hands across & feel it. 
Who would I contact about industry standards if this becomes a problem? I have a feeling it might as when talking with the foreman he said "you're gonna see some seams" and I stated, "you shouldn't see any". He'll talk to his boss and hopefully it will be taken care of. When is being picky on this too picky?

Thanks in advance for any replies!


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Was the drywall taper aware that the ceiling would be painted? 
It usually takes an extra coat of mud and sanding for paint grade level of finish, otherwise they might assume the ceiling was being stippled.

And was it primed at all?

Talk to the Boss...

Customer service is like making love to a Gorilla, you don't stop when you are satisfied, you stop when ... well, you get the picture...


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! The mudders were well aware of the finish that was to used. It is the same in all the other rooms and they all look fine. I think the problem is with the painters and not the mudders. 
Are there local boards that would mediate such issues other than the BBB?


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## baum (Jul 14, 2009)

Bring it up to the builder (or general) now. Its as easy as dont close on the house until the problems are taken care of. They want to close, they want to get paid and not have to make payments on the construction loan any more than they have to. 

I had many issues like this when my house was built. except the builder for us was soooo shty that when we brought the items up during construction they would play the blame game. by the time it got fixed they had to have many trades come back in to fix it.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

pictures would help.

It is very normal to be able to spot seams through a freshly painted new drywalled ceiling. Paint will dry a bit more slowly at seams, but good quality paint should blend once all paint has dried. Was the paint rolled or sprayed? 

LOL... problem is: now that you know where the seams are... you may always see them... eye//mind thing...

You mentioned you could not feel the seams....
Might be how the light hits the ceiling...

get some fresh trusted eyes to check out the ceiling.. 

Most contractors know that they are not done until you are smiling.
The ceiling may just need another coat of paint.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Tried to take pictures but between no power yet, over cast day and the flash none really showed the problems.

I'm well aware of now that we know of the problem we may always notice it. Use to do carpet repair and I'd tell my clients that if they looked hard enough they'd probably notice the repair. But those who never knew of the original problem would never notice the repair. 

They attempted repairing the worst two seams but with little success. I informed them today that we won't sign off at our rapidly approaching closing unless the ceiling looks like a new ceiling and not a repaired one and was told they'd take care of it this week.

Would the State Board of Contractors be the place to get local leverage if need be? BTW this is a new development by one of the largest "production" builders in the nation.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

No, there's no board that'll mediate this for you, as it is a quality/aesthetics issue and not a safety/code issue. Shouldn't be any need for that with a well established builder anyway. You shouldn't be able to see the seams in a properly and professionally finished wall or ceiling. If you do some looking into the BBB, you'll find that they're a pay-to-play organization anyway, which takes away a lot of their credibility in my book.

Honestly, you need to let the repairs take their course. You're obligated to let the builder make a full attempt to make it look good. If their field staff isn't doing that then you need to contact the boss or the project manager. I think it is premature and slightly ridiculous to consider BBB reporting or contacting the state contractor licensing board at this stage in the game, and threatening the builder with either sure as heck won't get you their best work on the remainder of the project. Show appreciation for their efforts and nicely let them know that they're not acceptable thus far. Honestly the state board will laugh this off and forget about it in about 10 seconds.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

ROYHILL said " Would the State Board of Contractors be the place to get local leverage if need be? BTW this is a new development by one of the largest "production" builders in the nation."

The State Board might be like using a cannon to plinck at cans..

You have the power of the check book.... thats like an A bomb.

Big Builders are only as good as the mechanics doing the work.

Also means they have a lawyer on staff.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

I've been very respectful and and appreciative in all my communications with them. I wholly plan on giving them the opportunity to make things right and have never broached the subject of "reporting" them. But since they have pretty much ignored this concern before and then did an unacceptable fix I just would like to know if push comes to shove who/what/how are my options. 

We are already a month behind and continue to rack up storage and rent expenses so while we are anxious to close it is the only card we hold. 

Thanks for the replies!


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

You can also withhold funds AT closing until the repairs are made to your satisfaction. I'd be interested to see the situation, but I'd bet "critical lighting" is playing a big part. That is a drywall man's worst enemy. 
I remember a house from years back that had a wall of mostly glass on the exterior wall. We were not informed that the walls were to be painted with ("Hunter Green") eggshell paint, so a level 5 finish was not applied. Many of the joints showed, even though they were smooth. Then when the swimming pool was filled and the afternoon sun hit it......Holy ?><{":?>:!! We ended up glaze-coating the entire room, after it was re-primed.
That may be the solution to your problem also, but it is not standard practice. The sanded mud on the joints is actually smoother than the face paper on the drywall and the light will show that difference. Adding another coat of mud on the joint isn't the solution....


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

This is a very popular model and our neighbor also has one that is finished. Both have a wall of glass sliders and are facing the same direction. Both are painted a "builders white" and both are a knock down texture.

The only diffence is that on theirs there are no noticable seams and on ours there is.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Again, sight unseen it's hard to tell what's going on, especially with a texture.... 
It seems like it would almost HAVE to be a lighting issue if it's ceiling joints that are showing. Is there anything outside that is reflecting light up on the ceiling?? You say you can't feel and problem with the joints, but with a texture I'm sure you can't. 
"Thinking out loud" again, it COULD be a paint issue. If the ceilings weren't properly primed, the joints can "flash" due to the inconsistent absorption of the paint. (The joints tend to absorb moisture faster than the drywall paper). Not usually an issue with plain old flat ceiling white. And I"m assuming the ceiling HAS been painted. Some textures are considered a finished product (stipple and "popcorn" spray) and are not usually painted until re-paint time. I've only done knock-down a couple of times when I finished the joints in a couple of "modular homes" where the two halves were joined together. I assume the builder painted when I was done....
Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

At the moment the only light is natural light as theres no power yet. There is nothing outside to reflect light as it's still just dirt.

My feeling is it is a priming problem and if so now that it has been textured and painted how should it be corrected?


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

The only way I know of would be to scrape/sand the texture smooth and glaze the entire surface. Then re-prime and paint. I doubt your builder will want to go to that extent to correct the problem. You have leverage with your checkbook though. Has anyone spoken with the painters yet to see what their opinion is or if they'll confirm the priming was done?? Just another thought.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for all your replies! I have no idea of what conversations the builder has had with the painters but one would think that since this is one of a hundred or so homes they have done in thier own developments they'd have the process down. Guess I'll cross my fingers and hope what ever they are doing will turn out OK. Hate to postpone closing but correcting this after we move in would be very inconvenient to all.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

They may "have the process down", but they may be using new subcontractors also. Builders are shopping price in this economy. They may have gotten a cheaper bid on the drywall and/or painting which could be the issue. Cheaper bid = cutting corners on material or labor which = lesser quality on the finished product. You are correct that now is the time to rectify the situation.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

With the new info provide ( knock down texture) it is sounding like they may have missed the priming step before fininsh texture. Or something went wrong there. Was this a single or double knockdown that was done?

Speed read the first six pages for a quick education.

http://www.usg.com/documents/construction-handbook/chapter5.pdf

If I were your builder I would send the A paint crew... and ask if a conversion product like BM fresh start or primer of their choice and proper painting might rectify this situation and get you to smile or at least stop frowning.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Wish I could tell you the process but I have no idea. I'm nomally at the site 2-3 times a week but that week I didn't make there. When I did some drywalling and mudding on a remodel I did for ourselves I noticed the seams on one wall after priming, tried to fix two different times by resanding and repriming. Ended up calling in the pros to correct my seams. Once I called them in I didn't want to take the chance of a blame game so I had them correct, texture and paint instead of doing the texture or paint myself. It came out great. 

Just hoping they will correct it satisfactory without us taking it further. . I'll be down there tomorrow ............


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## FeelTheThunder (Mar 18, 2010)

If it was knockdown texture and you can see the joints what are you seeing? Is it the white of the taping cement compared to the darker paper surface? You mentioned earlier you cannot feel anything. If it is what I am thinking it is most definitely the primer/sealer not dong it's job with the white of the joints showing through.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

1st I guess I wasn't very clear about not feeling anything . . . that's because when I've been there, no ladders are around and the ceiling is a cathedral and I can't feel it because I can't touch it.

But yes I think it is the white of the seams that aren't covered correctly. There are maybe two areas that look like the seams weren't feathered enough or just too much mud. Those are not "that" noticeable but it is the shade difference where the seams are whiter than the surrounding area.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

RoyHill,

please post a current pictures even if the problems do not show up in the photos.

It will save many many additional questions. You have provided some additional info along the way.

1. knockdown texture
2. catherdral ceiling
3. confession you did not feel the seams

It will help us help you.:thumbsup:


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Big Bob said:


> RoyHill,
> 
> please post a current pictures even if the problems do not show up in the photos.
> 
> ...


My basic inquiry was/is about industry standards and if visible seams met them or should be unacceptable. And if not who could I contact if push comes to shove. 

They informed that they will be correcting the ceiling tomorrow, hopefully it will look great and not like a repaired ceiling.

Thanks again and I really apprecate all the replies!


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

RoyHill,

I appologize if my last post had you seeing red.
The word confession was mis-used. I was searching for that wonderful word you just used clarity. 


3. The "can't feel it"... was not taken by myself or others... as you
could not access the ceiling to feel it. And..further let logic A+B=C
(a being) the seams felt smooth..not humped to you. (b being) you either 
rubbed your had accross before, during or after prime & paint on a smooth ceiling. ( c being conclusion) it's probably a priming issue.

It now appears that it is possible that the seams are humped. 

1. texture? a double knock down finish should be very hard to read the seams through....more mud up there.

2. type of ceiling? The angle of incedence equals the angle of refraction. The human eye sees refracted light. If the seams are not featherd well and feel slightly raised this could show more on a higher sloped ceiling. (part of the inverse square law.) The way the light hits it.

Light levels and relectance factors will change as blinds, carpet, landscaping, artificial light is turned on...etc... 

Different techniques (levels) can be used on areas to get uniform results.

"They informed that they will be correcting the ceiling tomorrow, hopefully it will look great and not like a repaired ceiling."

We all hope so. Good luck.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Yeah, right after I clicked send I felt that red was not the color to use for my replies and thought it might be misinterpreted as being upset. And evidently I'm pretty good at not being very clear on things - sorry. 

Anyway if I said that I had actually felt the seams I again misspoke (not going back to reread what I wrote-not really important to the issue). Never psychically touched the ceiling during any step. I can visibly see most seams in the ceiling because of shade difference in color, a few of them appear humped and the texture on those also appears slightly different.

Haven't had a chance to inspect yet but will be there tomorrow and hopefully they have done the right thing and made it look like the new ceiling it is. In the 6 homes we've owned in the last 30 years (none being new) I never saw a seam and don't want to see one (let alone numerous) now that we are buying new.

Again thanks for the replies and sorry for not being as clear as I could have been or by seemingly not being grateful for the help by posting in red.


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## kgphoto (Dec 2, 2007)

So what was the final outcome? Sound like this may have been the only cathedral ceiling and maybe didn't get the best mudding done. Cross lighting any ceiling is the way to show seams.

Level 0 to level 5 in the specifications would have cleared a lot of this up.

It is possible that they didn't prime and only painted. I would shine a bright light, even a flash light to see it cross lighting makes it show up more. If so, re-feather. If not, spay a high build primer/sealer and then re-paint.


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## royhill (Mar 16, 2010)

Not sure what was done but it looks good now. I understand they had the rest of the house sealed off and was spraying the whole cieling again. If they reprimed or just added another coat of paint I'm not sure but it worked:thumbup:. Closed, moved in and in the middle of unpacking after having things in storage for almost 5 months - and wondering why we have all this stuff that we lived without for so long. Time for a BIG garage sale! Thanks all!


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank you for the up-date....glad this all worked out....


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