# Water leak from support beam in garage



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

well, there is no reason a beam should be a source of water so I would suggest you find where the water is actually coming from.

If the lower portion of the post is subject to salt and water regularly (such as melt off from road snow and salt) rusting near the bottom is not unusual.

So, you need to determine if the water is running down the post from somewhere else or it simply collected around the base of the post after leaking in from another area. If the floor around the post just happens to be the lowest point in the garage, any leaks will simply flow to that point and set.


Try to find the actual source of the water.


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

Hi Nap, Thanks for replying.

It's definitely not coming from another area. One warm day (with snow on the ground) a little snow melted I noticed a small puddle (thought nothing of it then) that expanded from the beam insertion point in the concrete with no other visible sources. 

The outside of the post is always dry, but the whole beam is corroded from top to botom, the bottom with the most corrosion. So, if it's not possible for it to be coming from the bottom directly, it must be coming down the inside of the beam and up through the bottom?


----------



## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

"Try to find the actual source of the water."
This is not only _the best _suggestion---it is a must! 
The metal post should be inspected for structural integrity and probable replacement. David


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

well, it is possible it would be welling up from the ground but fairly unusual.

what sets on top of the post? Have you looked and felt around the top of it to see if water is tracking down to the post from somewhere?


If the water is coming up from the ground, I would have some serious concerns.

can you possible take some pictures of this?


and depending on how bad the corrosion is, you might need to put some temporary supports in place to prevent damage to the garage. If the post is bad enough, it just would not have the strength to support (presumably) the roof.


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

*pictures of beam*

here are some pictures, doesn't it look like the bottom is the source? If I do start looking to hire a professional to fix this, what type of person should I be looking to hire for this type of thing??


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

what is at the top. What I would look for is if there is anyway for water to run into the post.


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

the other thing I would do is to dry the floor with towels and even something like a fan or hair dryer. Get it as dry as you can. Then, build a dam around the pole so no water can run across the floor to get to it.

then, tie a towel around the pole to see if any water is running down the outside of the pole.


like i said in my last post; try to determine if there is any way for water to run down from elsewhere onto the post.


let us know the results


----------



## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

Since there is no question about replacing the post, remove it. Of course provisions must be made before removal to support the load. I would fabricate one or two temporary supports, close to the existing beam, that would carry the load without interference of removal.
Check to see if a permanent support post can be placed next to this questionable support and that might be a better approach.
It appears to be impossible to determine the source of water without removal.


----------



## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

25gals? thats a lot, if its not coming from the bottom you have bigger prob than a rusty post. that post looks bad and is holding up some loads, i would suggest at the very least a pt 4x6 to each side while you have this looked at. you are going to need to cut the concrete out at post and unless you have capabilities you need a pro


----------



## antlerdancer (Oct 6, 2009)

Cant see the top,but it looks like a vent pipe or something like that


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Is the pole concrete filled?
What is over the garage?
Does the ceiling around the pole top show any signs of water?
Is the bottom of the pole the only part that is wet?
Can you take exterior pictures of the sides and back of the house?
How is the grading next to and behind the house?

You might try drilling a 1/4" hole about 24" away from the pole, through the slab to see if water percs up through the hole.
Ron


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

vent pipe?

could you have water running down from a roof leak?


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

I'll grab a picture of the top tonight. I have felt around the top whenever it is wet, and didn't feel any moisture. I think its like welling up from the ground or something. 

I will also implement your idea with the dam and tying the towel tonight after work. 

Thanks for the input Giles. I don't know what I would need to do to put up those supports. Is there certain specialty I should be lookign for to hire someone to check this out? Would it be like a general handy man or something like that?

If I were to do this myself, what do I need for supports? How do I mount it? what materials etc? I'm a total newbie to this stuff, but very willing to learn and try things. 

Thanks for input tpolk. What would I use to cut the concrete? is that somethign I can rent at lowes/home depot?


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

cutting the concrete would be a partner saw









or some other brand but you will want to move the vehicles out of the garage and cover everything you do not want covered with concrete dust.

Basically you can use simple 4X4's as temporary supports. If/when you remove the steel post, I would set a 4X4 on both sides of the current post about 2 feet away. That will give you some room to work and plenty of room to dig out for and pour a footer (lump of concrete to support the force of the post)


is there a lot of water or wet land around your home? Do you have a basement? If so, does it have a sump pump and maybe even a french drain installed to remove ground water that leaches in?


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

Is the pole concrete filled? - how do I identify whether or not it is concrete filled? 

Thanks for input Ron6519

What is over the garage? - two bedrooms, neither of which have bathrooms..asuming no plumbing there.

Does the ceiling around the pole top show any signs of water? - some corrosion, but nothing like the top.

Is the bottom of the pole the only part that is wet? - as far as I can tell

Can you take exterior pictures of the sides and back of the house? - yes I will do that tomorrow when there is some day light

How is the grading next to and behind the house? lot is relatively flat to my eyes, not sure how to tell with better accuracy 


about the hole you suggested...I think when I was shop vacing up all the water I may noticed a peculiar hole in the garage floor with water in it, I wonder if the previous owner did the same thing..I'll check that hole out again with more scrutiny when I get home today.

Nap,

I don't know about a roof leak...there is a small attic which I have inspected a few times and found it all dry, other than on the other side of the house there is some dampness on the side I think because of cracked bricks in the chimney/squirrel damage on the flashing..but thats another issue  I plan to seal the crown and have the brick work done in the spring


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

is there a lot of water or wet land around your home? - no it's pretty dry, not wetland

Do you have a basement? - yes, the garage opens into the basement, no sump pump but it does have a french drain installed in front of the garage, which looks like it hasn't been cleaned for a long time, could this be source of my problem??


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

gmartins said:


> is there a lot of water or wet land around your home? - no it's pretty dry, not wetland
> 
> Do you have a basement? - yes, the garage opens into the basement, no sump pump but it does have a french drain installed in front of the garage, which looks like it hasn't been cleaned for a long time, could this be source of my problem??


If the water table in and around the house is high, or the ground around the house is wet or soggy due to poor grading, the water might be putting pressure against the slab. Has the basement shown any signs of dampness or water? How far below the garage slab is the basement floor?
To find if the pole is filled, you could probably just look at the very bottom. There doesn't seem to be too much left of the metal. If you still can't tell, you can make a small hole in the middle of the pole. The metal is only 1/8" or so thick. After that you'll just drill through it or you'll get gray dust out of the hole.
Ron


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

The basement does have some deep cracks that I plan to patch when it gets warmer/dryer. I'm guessing this might have occurred BEFORE the previous owner put in a french drain, but I'm not sure.

how far below the garage slab is the basement floor? - it has a small step to enter the basement, I would guess its about level. 

I made a quick drawing of how the basement/bottom floor level looks.


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

top level view of house


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

So, the only place you have water getting in the house is by the pole?
Ron


----------



## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

"Ron" hit my next thoughts--drill two holes in the concrete, well-one through the concrete and another, within six inches, half the depth of the concrete thickness to check for water percolation. Then I would drill a 1/4" hole into the post near the base. The metal at the bottom of the pole-IMO-shows some degradation of the metal other than normal rust. That appears to be a type of "galvanic" corrosion caused more by a chemical reaction with the steel, possibly caused from lime in that concrete meeting with water and having high Ph. I've seen this, but always outside. David


----------



## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

Ooops! Just saw the "French Drain" put into the equation. Does the drive slope--at all--down, towards the garage? IF SO--I'd wonder if, somehow, ground water could intrude via the French Drain into the soil underneath the garage floor, then try to surface at a "point of least resistance", which would be the point where the support post and concrete meet. If I'm thinking wrong--I'm at least thinking, David


----------



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

one would think that water, if present, would come out of the cracks at the garage doorway.


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

Nap, When I had the big ~25 gallon puddle, there was little water near the cracks. They were definitely damp, but nothing like the amount of water that pooled near the beam. Thats why I keep going back to thinking it's the beam but, your dam idea will rule other sourcesfor sure. All the snow is pretty much fully melted now...so to test will have to wait for some precipitation. 

Thurman, The drive way doesn't appear to slope from my naked eye. I assume for water flow, it wouldn't take much of grade towards the house to get it flowing in that direction. 

My gut feeling is that its coming up from some non-water tight part of that beam/concrete interface, maybe like you said via the path of least resistance.


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

"Thurman, The drive way doesn't appear to slope from my naked eye. I assume for water flow, it wouldn't take much of grade towards the house to get it flowing in that direction. 

My gut feeling is that its coming up from some non-water tight part of that beam/concrete interface, maybe like you said via the path of least resistance."

To check the grade, just pour some water on the driveway and see which way it flows.
I don't understand the beam/concrete observation. The beam and the concrete meet 10' away from the water. If water is getting in on the garage sides, it would come out the seams at the bottom of the beam long before it would travel 10' to the pole. 
Ron


----------



## gmartins (Feb 18, 2010)

*Update*

We had some more snow here and a lot of rain and I am now leak free!

What I did:

1. Cleaned out all gutters (debris was overflowing) and installed gutter guards
2. Extended downspouts around house to drain ~8ft away from the house
3. Cleaned out french drain in front of house


----------



## Five Arrows (Feb 27, 2010)

*Ice Dam?*

If this happens when the snow melts it is probably from the roof. Ice melts on the roof and freezes again on the eves causing an ice dam. The melting water backs up and penetrates the roofing and then gravity takes over. The water may be able to enter the inside of the pole and runs out the bottom


----------

