# noisy washer agitator



## bucksone

My Whirlpool Design 2000 top-loading washer (bought in 1987!) has started making a loud noise. The noise is in rhythm with the agitator. It only does it during the wash cycle when the agitator is moving back and forth. While I realize I have received my money's worth out of this washer after 20 years, if this is something fixable, I'm willing to give it a try. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


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## SecretSquirrel

This is more of a story than DIY advice. I had a similar issue with a 15 year old Sears Kenmore washer except my spin cycle quit working. I'm a DIY type of guy right? Well I started dismantling the washer to find the source of the problem and uncovered the remnants of some sort of nylon gear or bushing. I whipped out my service manual and after studying the possible components that could have contributed to the meltdown and then looking at the washer transmission, not to mention the looming pile of laundry, the next thing I did was call a service center to see what a "hypothetical" repair would cost. After hearing that bad news and looking at the prospect of a real PITA and time consuming repair I decided to save what little hair I have left on my head and take the washer to the dump and replace it with a new one. A wise man chooses the battles he is capable of winning.

Individual results may vary.


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## skymaster

Buck: Padre Espritum Sanctum
Take the wife out to lunch and a shopping trip :laughing::yes:


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## boman47k

What type of noise?



> It only does it during the wash cycle when the agitator is moving back and forth.


Watch it while it is in wash mode and see if the tub is going from side to side or wobbling. If it is, raise the top and look in the corners for rubber dampers going from the tub to the washer itself. One or more may be broken if it has them. If it has springs on the bottom that serve basically the same purpose, check them. These will be heavy springs if it has them. Be careful when installing or remmoving. Do you know if it is direct drive or belt driven? If direct drive, definitely check the coupler. Not really sure how far back the direct drives go. Just some suggestions without being there to actually see it.


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## girltech

What is the model number of the washer?

The model number should be on a tag in the opening of the washer where you put the clothes in.

If the agitator is a duel action type it has what are call dog in it and a cam that could be making the noise.


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## DeviantDave

I have this EXACT same problem, with the EXACT same washer. The model # is LA3400XPW0. I am in the process of trying to take it apart, but I'm worried that I'm going to pull the gearbox off and misalign something, or have stuff come apart in a way that I won't be able to figure out how it goes back together... I took the agitator off from the top, but don't have a spanner to take the large nut off (from under the agitator). I've taken the 3 bolts out of the gearbox, and disconnected the motor (separating the grommet/coupling), but not sure where to go from there. The noise it makes when agitating, sounds like a belt, or a gear, that is sheering, or jumping, teeth.


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## DeviantDave

*No Pm...*

Hey Bucksone, 

If you're still active on this forum, can you reply back to this, and let me know what you found (I tried to PM you, but apparently you have to make 15 posts for every PM you send, or something to that effect, so I couldn't message you, directly). I am having trouble getting my washer apart to find the problem, and I want to avoid forcing something, and having gears fall out all over the floor... Your help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Dave


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## bucksone

Well,DeviantDave,I took SecretSquirrel's advice and bought a new washer. Sorry I couldn't be of any help to you.


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## DeviantDave

*Bummer...*

Awww, man... Ok... Yeah, I had purchased a newer washing machine, awhile back, and it failed, after replacing several (semi-expensive) computer boards, it ended up in my backyard, with this older one taking its place (much easier to work on, until now). I can't afford another new one, so I will have to keep trying until I figure this out... Thanks for the reply, though!


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## boman47k

> or jumping, teeth.


Dave, grab the top of the agitator and try to turn it both ways. It should only turn one way. If it makes a clicking or gear skipping sound and turns both ways, the agitator dogs are bad. Very inexpensive fix.

Let us know what you find out.

P.S. If the top of the agitator turns both ways independent of the bottom, I think you can put everything back together. No need to remove the tranny, motor, etc. Be a good time to replace the coupler too, ifit has any loose play in it. Also relatively inexpensive. Both the dogs and the coupler can be bought on Ebay for pretty good savings if you can wait a few days for them to come in.
But, if needed quickly, they are not that expensive to buy from a parts house.


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## DeviantDave

Hi Boman47k,

Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately, this is a slightly older model, with a single, solid agitator (no agitator dogs, as far as I know). After removing the agitator, and checking the spindle/spline (both the metal, and plastic, looked to be in perfect shape), I removed the motor from the gearcase. The coupler was the older, more solid round type (as opposed to the triangular-shaped newer ones), and both coupling gears, and the rubber coupler were all very tight and in extremely excellent shape. not seeing any other "easy to check" possibilities, I dismantled the gearcase, only to find it to be in just as good of shape as everything else... Going to put it back together, tomorrow, reinstall it, and see if I can figure anything else out. Any other suggestions, I would love to hear them all!

Thanks, 
Dave


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## boman47k

Be sure to check the middle of the coupler to make sure it is not rounded out to the point it might slip on the motor shaft when a load is put on it, especially if it is the plastic type and not the metal insert type. Both can do this though.

Look in the center of the tub nut you mentioned you could not remove under the agitator . This nut screws down on the drive block. This drive block has a split in the middle and two gaps in it, one on each side. The tube has two tabs that should be aligned with and set into these two gaps, See if there is any wear there.
Might be worth checking out. 

To get a better understanding of what I am referring to type in - whirlpool drive block - on You Tube.

P.S. Did you take the cover off the tranny, or did you just pull it from the machine?
P.S.S. You might use a small pipe wrench and hammer to remove the tub nut.


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## boman47k

On second thought, I doubt the drive block is the problem here if the machine still spins properly. Starting to sound like a transmission problem if the brake, clutch, etc. are all good.


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## DeviantDave

The coupling (gears and rubber) were in very good shape (Very tight, no wear, no room for slippage - had to kinda pry them apart, they were so snug). I completely dismantled the gearcase/tranny and found no sign of any damage, or wear. All of the plastic components are in good shape, no plastic or metal shavings, everything is aligned and seems to be meshing perfectly... I'm really at a loss. I was going to put it back together, today, but had some other stuff come up, so I will probably put it back together tomorrow and listen to it again.


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## DeviantDave

... on the Brake and clutch being good... They _seem_ to be working ok... is there any definitive tests that I can use to verify that?


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## boman47k

Easier to just say to google these components along with the brand of the washer. There are videos that will walk you through it. Even the transmission which I have very little experience with.

Sounds like you already have them separated.
Good luck.


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## DeviantDave

Well, I got to thinking, that if it were a clutch, or a brake problem, I would probably hear it at other times, and the sound would be more of a constant screeching, scraping, or other consistent noise, or possibly a loud, abrupt knock, or pounding noise (I say this because of the hundreds of posts, blogs, and instructional/troubleshooting reference material that I have read online, since starting my investigation, not from personal experience). 

The issue I have is definitely only during agitation, and is directly related to the movement of the agitator (because I can see the difference in movement when the sound occurs). After, a second inspection of all the gearcase components, I went ahead and put it back together, and will reinstall it tomorrow. With it semi-assembled, I kept trying the gears and it seems like everything is working correctly in spin, and agitate positions (by turning the coupler CW & CCW), with nothing slipping, and no resistance. 

I suspect that whatever is going on, is only occuring during load (tub full of water and clothes), so I when I reassemble it, tomorrow, I am going to try to run it with the water turned off, and tub empty. Is that even possible? Are there sensors in it that check for a certain water level before agitation? If so, is there a way to bypass it?


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## boman47k

To get it to agitate without filling, you may have to attach a tube/hose to the water level switch. Blow into the tube. You should hear a click as the switch closes.

Just remove the tube that is on it now from down toward the bottom the outer tub, if you don't have another tube that will work. You can usually blow into it then bend it to close it off and keep the pressure on the switch so the machine will work as if it had water in it.

You are right about the noises that are usually heard from brakes and clutches....usually. These things can be quirky sometimes though. Look at some of the videos to make sure you put the brake and clutch back together in a way that they will not interfere with one another.

P.S. you may have to also bypass the lid switch to get it to agitate if the lid is up. Some will agitate but not spin with the lid open. Some will do neither with the lid open. I think it is the older ones that will agitate but not spin.


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## DeviantDave

*Ugh....*

Ok, I put it all back together, and gave it a "dry run" (no water or clothes), and it sounded great! I turned the water on and let it fill up like normal. As soon as it hit the agitate cycle... Same noise.. Considering I didn't really do anything, except inspect and reassemble, I really wasn't _THAT_ surprised (but I was hoping...). I went ahead and recorded the noise it was making (don't know if it really translates well, but what the hey...). I'm going to try to attach it to this post, but I've never done that, so I don't even know if I can. If I can, the difference in the sound is me moving the recording device from the top of the open washer, to the front, then down the front towards the bottom. Ok, it wouldn't let me attach the .wav file, so I'm going to just attach the zipped file. As always, any suggestions, or comments, are appreciated! 

Thanks,

Dave


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## boman47k

Yep, that is noisy. Does the basket stay straight when agitating?

The teeth skipping sound does not sound good. It does sound like gears skipping over teeth like maybe some teeth are rounded off or a bushing somewhere is worn and allowing play between some gears. This might not make sense, like I said, I have no experience with the inside of the trannys.

Not sure if wear pads would make that kind of sound. Might be something to look into.

If the basket/tub wobbles, I would check all springs on it.

I think the tranny may speaking to you.

Also google balance ring for that washer. Just taking a stab at anything I think might be the root of the problem with my limited knowledge.

P.S. I am going to go back and reread this so I can ...did you list the model number?


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## DeviantDave

It's a Whirlpool Design 2000, Model # LA3400XPW0. It's kinda hard to say on the basket... it doesn't stay perfectly straight, but it doesn't lean, very heavily, either... It does seem to "wobble" more than I would like it to, but.. it is an old washer, and my memory is so bad, I don't really have anything to compare to as far as if it wobbles any more than it used to, or any worse than any other washer. The tub stands straight up, and self-centers if I push it in any direction.

As for worn gear teeth, all of the gears in the gearcase, had nice sharp edges. pointy-ish on the ones that should be semi-pointy, and square on the ones that should be square. everything meshed really well, and all seemed really tight, buuut, obviously, something is going on. 

Speaking of bushings, I was kinda concerned about the plastic pieces on the ends of the worm gear. It was the only thing that I didn't remove, and it felt tight, but I don't know how it connects on the ends, and thought that would be a potential point of slippage. 

I checked the springs when I was under there looking around (none broken, bent, or loose). Not sure about the wear pads (haven't researched them, yet).

I looked into the balance ring, and while nothing comes up on my model, under that name, there are a few things that could meet the description. But, wouldn't that affect it while it was spinning, more than during agitation? Or, at least also?

I have a friend coming over in a few days to listen to it/look at it (turns out, he used to be a Maytag guy a loooooong time ago), so when he is here, and I fill the tub up again, I will also take a video of the tub agitating, and spinning, and post it.

Thank you for all your help, so far, and all of the excellent suggestions!

Dave


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## boman47k

I guess the balance ring clips and or teeth would have to be in pretty bad shape to do that. It a ring that fits around the top of the tub under the tub ring. It has lquid in it and serves sort of as a ballast. If it is one of those machines that agitates like crazy and this ring was loose,.....maybe. I can imagine it making that sound.

Wish I could be of more help. I have had a couple lately that were noisey. I am pretty sure one has a bad tranny, not sure about the other one. I have them on YouTube. May see if I can post them here for the heck of it.

Yeah, if you don't care, let us know what you find out.


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## DeviantDave

I am fully considering any ideas, likely, or not, so your brainstorming isn't going to waste, believe me! I was kinda wondering about stuff external to the tub (like if something got dislodged, or wedged somewhere it shouldn't be). It does seem to agitate like crazy! What name are your videos listed under on youtube? I was checking out various videos trying to find one that had a matching noise. 

My friend (the ex-Maytag guy) is one of the two other people I had check out my gearcase before I put it back together. unfortunately, he has lost most of his vision since his repair days, so his visual examination is limited, but his hearing and reasoning are still fully intact, and experience is invaluable! I will definitely post the results of the upcoming diagnosis.


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## boman47k

piddler51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLyu4sw7-oc

This one had a couple of wear pads missing. I am not sure if that was part of the problem or not. I parted it out. I did think about replacing the pads to see what, if any , difference it might make. I might at some point if I come across a drive block. I used the one from this one to put on another to sell.


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## DeviantDave

First, I was going to say "I only wish my washer sounded that good!", but as the video went on, I saw what you were talking about. I watched a few other video with washers that had worn wear pads, and I noticed the problem sounded different on different machines, so I'm still keeping that on the table. but, I suspect it would sound worse during the spin cycle, instead of agitation, but I don't know. 

Compared to your machine (in that video), mine does wobble a lot more... I video recorded mine right now (without water), but having a hard time getting the video to my computer, so that may, or may not, follow. 

What do you think about bearings? I'm guessing there has to be some kind of bearings somewhere (other than the single one in the gearcase), but I don't see them in any of the schematics/diagrams for my washer.


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## boman47k

Really does not sound like a bearing to me. Could definitely be wrong. Since it does it in agitate mode, I can imagine the balance/ballast ring making that sound if it is slipping. Some of these machine can really do some violent agitating. The rings just clip on the tub, if I remember correctly. I will try to remember tot ake a picture of one tomorrow and see if I can post it here. It just under the tub ring that removed by pushing down at each clip and pulling the clip out and off. Do this all the way around the tub. You will see the balance/ballast ring. It has plastic teeth and metal clips that hold it on the tub. I think the teeth may more for adjustment than anything. See if you can move it by hand.

In my mind I can see these things slipping and making a noise similar to that.

I have had to work with the clips on these to make them hold.

Btw, your model number indicates either 1985 or 2004. Direct drive 2000 series? Guess that would be 2004?


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## Gary in WA

I'm not a repairman. I have worked on/replaced parts in my washers before. Could the dogs be worn enough to give the slop noise/ http://www.fixya.com/support/t249676-whirlpool_top_loader_agitate

http://www.ask.com/web?am=broad&q=w...src=999&ad=semD&o=8830&l=dir&ampclid=&af=&_=1

http://www.appliancerepair.net/washing-machine-repair-4.html

https://www.repairave.com/washerrepair_wpl_agitator.asp

Let us know if it helped, hope so.

Gary


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## DeviantDave

Hello Everyone, 

boman47k, I'd like to say it's the 2004 model, but it's actually either 1984, or 85... I know exactly what ring you're talking about. Everybody's asleep, right now, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I can pop it open and check it out. Everybody has been sick at my house (except me), so I haven't had my friend come over, but hoping to try to get him over, tomorrow. 

Also, I tried to attach that video (my washer agitating, and spinning, without water - I wanted to wait until my friend got here before filling the tank up with water again, so I don't waste anymore water, than necessary - ugly drought going on, right now, here in California) again, but it's too big... I will have to try to set up a YouTube acct like yours (maybe tomorrow).

Gary in WA, I think you might have just caught the last page of this saga (The first page starts out with a user/poster named "bucksone", but I kinda glommed onto his post because I have the exact same model & problem). My washer has a single, solid, agitator, and therefore , to the best of my knowledge, has no agitator dogs. But I appreciate the thought! Feel free to peruse the rest of the posts to see what bowman47k, and myself, have come up with, so far, and what I have already tried.

As always, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!!!!

Dave


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## DeviantDave

Ok, looks like tomorrow for my friend's visit/diagnosis, but I took the chasis and top, snap-on ring off, and it appears that the balance ring is built-in to the tub, itself (see pics - excuse how nasty it looks, I don't think it has ever been removed...). There is only a top seam, and no seams, screws, or anything on the inside , or outside, that I can see or feel. Hmmm...


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## DeviantDave

Excuse how tiny the pics are, the forum limits are pretty small for getting any kind of detail.


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## boman47k

That ring has fluid in it, right? I suspect it is attached to a metal tub/basket via little metal clips on the underside that clip onto the tub. Trying to remember exactly how they do fit on the ring itself. I'm thinking it is a press fit like deal.

Anyway, anxious to see what your friend finds out.

That buildup of crud, softener, soap, etc. is quite normal as these things are mostly never cleaned out in these areas I would think.

Kind of like dryers.

If you go to clean it, I would advise to get all the loose stuff you can out instead of hoping to flush it out due to the possibility of a piece of it blocking the hose going to the water level switch. Might be a slim chance, but it if it did, it might cause a flooding situation.


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## boman47k

Dave???? Any update?


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## DeviantDave

*Sigh...*

Well, the diagnosis was... inconclusive. It wasn't something he had ever run into before, and everything he looked at, or thought of, appeared to be in proper working order. But, he thinks my wormgear/input shaft theory is the best bet, at this point (since it's the only thing that I didn't remove from the gearcase).

When I inspected the gearcase, the wormgear, itself, was in perfect condition, and it wasn't, in the least bit, loose (to the touch), but I thought I was able turn it a little bit, by turning the coupler, and holding the shaft. It took a lot of pressure, and it was so hard to tell, that I didn't know, for sure, whether it actually moved, or was my imagination, but it would make sense. After the coupler, that would be the next point with the greatest amount of torque.

He believes that some of the input shaft/wormgears were one piece, but others were two pieces with a spline, so if that was where the damage was, it would make sense that I couldn't see it. In addition, I noticed oil in the area of the coupler, and input shaft (that wasn't there before). At first, I thought it was leaking from the vent at the top (from when I topped off the gearcase, when I was putting it back together), but it was dry on top, and it seems like it might have leaked from the input shaft seal.

But, another thing I noticed, yesterday, was that without a load (no water), the agitator goes in both directions (and doesn't make any noise), but when the tub is filled (and it starts making that god awful noise), it is only agitating in one direction! I had noticed before that you could see a difference in the agitator when it made the noise, but I hadn't realized that it was going in both directions w/o water, but only one direction with water. Do you think that could still be the wormgear? Or would that have more to do with the agitator cam? The cam appeared to be in perfect shape when I inspected it.

I spent last night looking for a replacement input shaft/worm gear, and any kind of instructional reference that would tell me how to remove them, but can't find anything, so far! Why would they not offer that as a replacement part? I don't want to take the gearcase apart again until I know if I can even get a replacement part. 

On that note, I do still have that newer washer (I have to get the model number off of it), that has the more expensive board problems, in my back yard, rotting away... Do you think the gearcase would work in my older washer (the one I have been using most currently)? The newer one has a split agitator, so would the shaft be different?


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## boman47k

When it comes to the inner workings of the transmission, I am lost. I have seen one disassembled on YouTube, but I really didn't spend much time studying it. One reason is, as far I know, you can't buy the components separately. That is why when the transmission goes, so goes the machine most of the time for those who have no extra (used) ones lying around.

Searspartsdirect is one place you can go for exploded diagrams of each machine and get part numbers. You cannot get an exploded diagram of the transmission, just the whole unit.


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## boman47k

> you can't buy the components separately.


I may stand corrected on that. I should know more later today or maybe tomorrow
.Might find this interesting:

https://www.google.com/search?q=was...DI6nXygGqpYHADQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=643

I hope I am not breaking the rules by posting this. If so, my apologies to the mods.

Btw, I do stand corrected on buying transmission components separately. There are diagrams with part numbers for each piece of the transmission.


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## DeviantDave

I've done all of my searching on the Yahoo! search engine, and it looks like Google might have some different options available, so I'll have to dig through those, when I can. 

I have accumulated quite a list of appliance parts websites, and have several exploded, numbered diagrams for my particular gearcase, but they identify every part except those pieces. So, yeah, it looks like I can buy every gear, cam, clip, and shaft, in the tranny, except those...

I can't find the back piece for my "yard washer", right now, so I don't have an exact model #, but it's a Whirlpool Gold Catalyst. Any idea if the gearcases (and/or shafts) are interchangable? I can't afford the couple hundred bucks for a new tranny, but I can't afford the laundromat, either...


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## boman47k

I'm afraid I am at my wits end. Sorry.


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## DeviantDave

Hey boman47k, 

Still no solution, but started a thread on another forum, if you'd like to peek in on that one every now and then.

http://appliantology.org/topic/47371-agitating-agitator-problems/

Also, apparently you can't get that/those part(s) separately, but several people have sworn to me that they have never seen them go bad, either. I went to a local appliance parts house and I spoke to a gentleman there, who has his own appliance business (and really knows his stuff, especially regarding gearcases), so I am going to call him tomorrow to pick his brain a little more, and see what else he can tell me.

I might not be a whole lot closer, but if it's not the input shaft/wormgear, at least that means I won't have to shell out the $200+ for a new transmission, or more for a new washer. 

I want to thank you, and let you know that I really appreciate all of your help!


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## boman47k

Wish I could have been more help. I need to study up on transmission issues myself. I have tossed a few thinking the trans was bad.
I have been to that site a few times over the years. Lately, I have watched some of his videos too.

You got some quick and what sounds like knowledgeable responses from the guru's site. I am going to check it out a little closer. Might save a couple of nice washers for me.

I think I will seeif I can post the video of my noisy Hotpoint there.

Thank you.


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## DeviantDave

*Whooo hoooo!!!!*

SUCCESS!!! It took awhile, but I have a washer again! It's even "New & Improved"! Check out the whole story here:

http://appliantology.org/topic/47371-agitating-agitator-problems/

Or just go here for the final solution (post #54):

http://appliantology.org/topic/47371-agitating-agitator-problems/page-3

This link might take you straight to the actual post (not sure if it'll actually work):

http://appliantology.org/topic/47371-agitating-agitator-problems/page-3#entry286734

Make sure you check out the various links (throughout the posts on that site) to the tumblr page that has the pics, videos & sound clips!

Thanks again boman 47k!


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## boman47k

Glad you got her going. Feels good, right? 

You got a pretty good eye for detail to notice the different angles on the gears.

Some very knowledgeable people on that site. I am going to have to take the time to go back over it all and see if I can retain a few tidbits.

The problem with the Kenmore I posted turned out to be the transmission. I am surprised it didn't make more noise than it did.

I can see how sn fits you. One of mine is 'Piddler***'.


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## Thurman

This sounds much like the agitator dogs have worn out. You only need to pop the top cap of the agitator to check these. There should be three or four (depending on model) of these agitator dogs. They will look something like little plastic cams mounted onto pins with teeth that mate with the teeth of the agitator itself. Which brings us to the other part of this problem-- the agitator itself has teeth molded into it on that mate with these agitator dogs. IF these are worn out then you would need a new agitator.


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## DeviantDave

Boman47k, 

You have no idea how good! The satisfaction of accomplishment is always great, but I was really hitting desperate times, and success couldn't have a come a minute too soon! I am pretty critical regarding details (sometimes to the point of it really making my life difficult...), but nothing beats a little experience. You, and fairbank56, on the other site, really helped me in the diagnosis process, and yeah, there does seem to be some pretty knowledgeable guys on that site! But, just like on any internet resource, you have to really analyze the responses before deciding who you want to trust, and how you want proceed. So, what was the Kenmore tranny problem? How did you find out? And which SN are you referring to? Deviant Dave or DIY_Dave? In all honesty, they are actually both pretty fitting... Gotta watch it cuz people could take piddler a few different ways ; )

Thurman, 

I appreciate the suggestion, and I hope this doesn't dissuade you from trying to help others, but you might wanna read back through the other 41 posts... In post #11, I actually point out that it was a solid, single-action agitator (no dogs), as 3 other people had already suggested (although, I have successfully upgraded it to a dual-action agitator, just for the heck of it!), and, as referenced in posts 40 & 41 (right above yours), the problem has already been fixed (agitator gear). Again, I hope this doesn't come across as being unappreciative, but it does help to streamline threads, and avoid redundant suggestions, if you peruse the entirety of the posts.


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## boman47k

> Deviant Dave or DIY_Dave?


DIY_Dave



> .... piddler a few different ways




Hadn't thought of that. My very first sn was 'bman'. I was questioned about that in some chat room. I changed it.

Anyway, I had taken this machine apart and saved the parts. The frame, base and back panel was sitting beside my shop. The control panel and motor was in my shop. I like to fix these things and sell them sometimes. Had nothing to sell, so I decided to change the transmission and replace the wear pads on this machine with parts from another I had lying around.

The problem was solved. I was not really sure what the problem was, wear pads or transmission.

When I tilted the machine back, I did notice quite a bit of oil coming from the area of the transmission. That helped make my mind up to try a tranny change.

I sold the machine. A few days later I saw the transmission I had replaced and noticed the oil seems to have comer from around the top of the transmission where the shaft came out. There also seemed to be excessive side to side play in the shaft as if a bearing and or seal was going out.

I think the transmission was the main problem.


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