# Exterior door problems



## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Hello, I recently noticed more and more light shining through gaps in our front and back doors (both steel exterior doors). The back door is especially bad with the deadbolt no longer lining up with the hole. The wood under the back door jamb was rotten and I replaced that with good wood and sealed everything up underneath. I checked the 3 hinges on each door and noticed the top hinge on each door only has two screws each--not sure what length screws. 

The gaps are so big that new weatherstripping does not fix the problem. After doing some reading I'm guessing it's the doors are just sagging after 15-17 years. Is there anything that can be done to remedy this problem besides replacing the door and frame?


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

You really do need to determine if the openning is changing based on the structural heaving or the door is sagging

You can easily check the door for sagging by opening the door to 45* and gently lift up on the door.... does it move? if it does the you have a loose top hinge, if it doesn't then you have movement in the framing, caused by a number of things related to climatic changes effecting the structure.

Mark


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

The front door seems to be quite a bit looser as far as lifting it up while open. Can actually see the hinge move and appears very loose. The back door does lift some, but, barely any.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

dazoli said:


> Hello, I recently noticed more and more light shining through gaps in our front and back doors (both steel exterior doors). The back door is especially bad with the deadbolt no longer lining up with the hole. The wood under the back door jamb was rotten and I replaced that with good wood and sealed everything up underneath. I checked the 3 hinges on each door and noticed the top hinge on each door only has two screws each--not sure what length screws.
> 
> The gaps are so big that new weatherstripping does not fix the problem. After doing some reading I'm guessing it's the doors are just sagging after 15-17 years. Is there anything that can be done to remedy this problem besides replacing the door and frame?


Take pictures of both doors, interior and exterior shots and post them.
Ron


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

For loose hinges tighten them, if the holes are stripped out, I have drilled them out, inserted glued hardwood doweling, wait until glue dries, and then redrill and screw.

For shifting framework, you need to find out why it is shifting so much.

Mark


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Not sure what angle pictures you'd like posted so here's a few showing light through cracks and the angles of gap at top of doors. 

It's also possible the winds from hurricane Katrina helped in messing these doors up some.


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Bottom needs new weather strip, and you may be able to adjust the lintel up closer to the bottom of the door if thats a steel door and it looks like it is.

Tighten the hinges on both the door and the jam/frame, add new magnetic weather stripping.

Mark


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Should I have upward pressure on the door as I tighten the top hinges? And I already replaced the magnetic weatherstripping. Bought the bottom strip for the back door (one with the big gap). Will get it put on tomorrow. 

Thanks for all the input!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

The hinge side jamb is not plumb. It's curved and needs to be reset. The bottom weatherstripping needs to be replaced, it's shredded.
It would help if you showed the weatherstripping on the exterior. It doesn't look continuous.
Ron


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

K Ron. Will get picture of that tomorrow. 

So seeing a curve and needing it reset; what would that entail?


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

By the way, I don't think tightening the top hinge will level the door enough to bring the deadbolt high enough to use. It's that far off.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

dazoli said:


> K Ron. Will get picture of that tomorrow.
> 
> So seeing a curve and needing it reset; what would that entail?


Pulling off the molding on the hinge side, accessing the shims , releasing the attachments and resetting the jamb.
Ron


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

K. Thanks again, Ron. Will tear into it on Tuesday when wife doesn't have class so I can have her help and blame any problems on her .


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

dazoli said:


> K. Thanks again, Ron. Will tear into it on Tuesday when wife doesn't have class so I can have her help and blame any problems on her .


You must be a newlywed, or recently had a stroke to believe that.
Ron


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Hahaha Married a little over 2 years, but, been together for almost 8. She shrugs off my blaming. (we actually do projects great together--tense moments followed by hours of laughs).


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Try adding two more longer (2") screws to fill all the holes on the jamb side of the top hinge before pulling the casing..... HD sells longer hinge screws in bronze, brass, etc. just for sagging doors. If that doesn't work, take another picture of the top hinge (3' away) after pulling the casing.

Gary


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

I just replaced some interior hinges and the new ones came with one long screw each. Will have enough to do both doors. Will put those in tomorrow. If that does the trick I'll post here. If not, I'll post picture of the hinge with casing off on Tuesday. Thanks, GBR.


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## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

Hmmm, are you stating that the house is 15-17 years old? Within the last six months I have replaced one front door on a newer home, and two back doors on homes about this age and found NO shims at all. NONE. These doors were just set in, nailed to the rough framing, and interior trim put on. Once the interior trim was removed, there was a nice gap between the door frame and RO. I'm just wondering if this would be your situation, and now the door frame has shifted. IF this is the case, then longer screws would tend to only pull the door jambs closer to the rough out framing. I'd say pull a piece of interior trim on the hinge side to inspect this.


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

The house was actually built in the 70's. The doors were put in right before I bought the house. Unfortunately, I only helped the guy redo all the interior doors when they put in new carpet.


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

ALL doors interior or exterior should at least one extra long screw that goes through the door jamb and into the framing.

I usually use a 3" GRK screw or an exterior galvanized drywall-type screw.

Try this before you go ripping stuff apart.
You'll be amazed at how much you can adjust a door with just long screws and using all three hinges to move the door one way or the other.

Make sure you have a driver/drill that can actually drive these big screws.


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Okay, put in long screws for top and middle hinges into the frame. 

Front door--much better. No longer rubbing door on door frame. 

Back door--if any improvement, not much. Deadbolt still not able to engage (bolt Opens too low on frame). Got my level out. Door is level and plum. Frame where hinges are is level. Top, bottom and right side are all off. Guessing the rotten wood under foot plate combined with gravity, hurricanes, weather changes etc knocked it out of whack. 

So, recommendations for next step if y'all don't mind? 

Thanks!


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

If all your reveals are good and your weatherstripping is working and the door operates the way it should, then reposition the strike plate.

I've seen those screwed up from the factory............


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Okay. Was just worried about the large gap underneath the door. The new bottom weatherstrip should stop the major airflow; I just wasn't crazy about the gap. 

Thanks!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

dazoli said:


> Okay, put in long screws for top and middle hinges into the frame.
> 
> Front door--much better. No longer rubbing door on door frame.
> 
> ...


What you're doing to this door doesn't make sense to me. What you do to the door is...nothing. Absolutely nothing until you understand all the issues with the door. At this point you know nothing and are hoping by taking arbitrary suggestions you will somehow fix the issues. You won't. All you'll do is rack the door and trade one issue for another.
weather changes should not effect a properly installed door.
Gravity will not effect a properly installed door.
Rotted wood under the,"foot plate" will. If it's rotted, pull the door out and fix it.
If the side jambs aren't plumb, there's an issue.
If the head jamb and sill aren't level, there's an issue.
The picture shows the latch side jamb elevated(or the hinge side jamb dropped). That will keep the latches and bolts from lining up with the strike plates(so you can't lock the door).
I would suggest:
1 Pull the door out of the opening.
2. Replace any damaged flooring or subflooring.
3. Install a proper sill flashing and caulk it.
4. Install the door with proper shims along both the side jambs.
-behind each hinge and 6" from the top and bottom of the jamb
-Behind both the locks and 4 additional shims along the strike jamb
5. Screw one 3" screw into each hinge keeping the jamb plumb.
6. Check the reveal all around the door to make sure it's equal(1/8")
7. Secure the latch side jamb.
8. Check the doors operation and make sure the locks engage.
9. Insulate the gaps around the jamb.
10. Install the trim.

Or you can whack at it like a monkey at a termite mound and hope you get a bite.
Your call.
Ron


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

As I stated in my first post: I Replaced the rotten wood weeks ago. 

As far as being a monkey banging on a termite mound, well, guess they came running out because the front door issue was fixed perfectly by 2 longer screws in the top hinge to the frame (it only had 2 shorts screws). 

I don't see why trying the longer screws assaulted your sense of DIY fixes so badly. Especially since it did fix the front door (opens and closes better than I ever remember). 

I appreciate your instructions to get the frame on the backdoor done more professionally. I'll try not to monkey it up too badly.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

And I quote:
"Deadbolt still not able to engage (bolt Opens too low on frame). Got my level out. Door is level and plum. Frame where hinges are is level. Top, bottom and right side are all off."

The door is conceptual. Either it all works or it doesn't. Having a door that opens and closes isn't as important as one which locks correctly.
The door is installed incorrectly. You won't fix it by your methodology.
Ron


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> You won't fix it by your methodology.


Sounds like he already did:whistling2:

It probably wasn't initially installed the way you and I would but that doesn't mean it has to be removed and reinstalled.

He listened to good advise and tweaked it just like I would if he hired me to fix it.

You sound like the guy that looks at any situation and classifies it as Junk!!! It's gotta be completely redone!! It's gonna cost ya $$$$$

Nice job Dazoli:thumbsup:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

tcleve4911 said:


> Sounds like he already did:whistling2:
> 
> It probably wasn't initially installed the way you and I would but that doesn't mean it has to be removed and reinstalled.
> 
> ...


I look at many situations with an overly critical eye. 
You're right, I should relax a bit.
Ron


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

Nice reply back, Ron

Take a ride out to Huntington and get yourself a coffee ring from Reinwald's Bakery.
:yes:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

tcleve4911 said:


> Nice reply back, Ron
> 
> Take a ride out to Huntington and get yourself a coffee ring from Reinwald's Bakery.
> :yes:


Sadly Jim, Reinwalds closed it's doors a few years ago. I grew up going to the one in Queens Village.
Best chocolate cream donuts and powdered cruellars ever. 
It was opened for over 50 years.
Ron


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Dazoli, during the repairs you did, did you remove and reinstall the hinge side jam? Any part of the jam for that matter?

Are the hinges set in mortises? Two hinges per door?

How far off is the strike plate for the lock?


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

3 hinges per door. 

I wouldn't say I did repairs per say. As the top and middle hinges seemed loose (could lift the door up and down a bit) and there were only 2 screws each in the top hinges on both doors, I added 2 long screws to the hinge (into the frame). (btw-the 2 screws in hinges were all the short hinge screws)

The bottom of the bolt is catching the strike plate by about 1/8-1/4".


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Excuse my basic terminology, but, not positive of what mortises are. The hinges are in recesses in the frame if that is what you meant.


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Here are the new pictures showing light coming through the back door. Will get to trying Ron's list this weekend.


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Put new weatherstrip on the inside. I know it's a bandaid, but, it's got the huge bottom wind slowed for now (except for the right corner). 

Took off the trim on inside by the hinges--no shims at all on this side.

Including some pics from the outside showing how the door doesn't really touch the weatherstripping except at the top.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

dazoli said:


> Excuse my basic terminology, but, not positive of what mortises are. The hinges are in recesses in the frame if that is what you meant.


Are these recesses the same depth and distance from the edge of the door and the jam?

Have you checked the jam and door for square?


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> Sadly Jim, Reinwalds closed it's doors a few years ago. I grew up going to the one in Queens Village.
> Best chocolate cream donuts and powdered cruellars ever.
> It was opened for over 50 years.
> Ron


Sorry this is off topic but the one in Huntington is still running strong.
My friend, Andy Reinwald still works there with the Reinwald brothers.
He brings a truckload of the best bakery goods up to Maine whenever he visits....

Now back to our previously scheduled program......


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm sure there is now a Starbucks selling stale generic fare all around. Luckily our local doughnut shop is still kicking down here (40+ years). 

Door/frame will be worked on Sunday-my next day off.


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

What's the plan?
Are you going to replace or tweak?


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## dazoli (Jan 31, 2011)

Would love to replace, but, budget won't go for that right now. Will pull rest of trim off and see if we can reset the frame. Kind of worried on how it will come apart as it's nailed in.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

tcleve4911 said:


> Sorry this is off topic but the one in Huntington is still running strong.
> My friend, Andy Reinwald still works there with the Reinwald brothers.
> He brings a truckload of the best bakery goods up to Maine whenever he visits....
> 
> Now back to our previously scheduled program......


Jim, that is the best news I've heard in awhile,
Thanks.
Ron


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