# basement subfloor??



## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

This is only a design choice, but what I did was installed 2x4's flat called sleepers, installed rigid foam in between, 3/4 T&G on top of that then carpet... You would never know that it was concrete underneath, very warm soft and comfortable...


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## jscholl411 (May 8, 2006)

I agree with chris75. Running 2x4, and t&g 3/4" plywood would be a lot cheaper than the Dricore subfloor.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

somehow, my reply got chok off... anyway...I am going to do this again... use product in this site rather than Dricore and you save $$


http://www.systemplaton.com/


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

I also installed a whole house dehumidifier, mainly for the basement, but I did tie it into the furnace ductwork and now my doors upstairs never swell up in the summer...


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## tpagel (Jan 30, 2008)

KUIPORNG said:


> somehow, my reply got chok off... anyway...I am going to do this again... use product in this site rather than Dricore and you save $$
> 
> 
> http://www.systemplaton.com/


DriCore is priced at $1.47/SF at HD and Lowes, and 7/16" 4'x8' OSB subfloor, that would go over the Platon, is listed at about $1.00/SF. So the Platon would have to be less than $0.47/SF to make it more economical, right? Is it? Or were you thinking of applying the laminated floor directly over the Platon, without OSB subfloor? If so, don't you lose the opportunity for significant "warmth, insulation and comfort" of having the OSB? I am VERY intrigued by the system you proposed, so I want to find out more. Thanks for your input.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*It does cost much less...*

I didn't do the calculation like you try to do regarding cost per sq. ft.... but it does cost about at least half the cost if not more... I cannot remember exactly...

but OSB for sure is not $1 per sq. ft., a 4x8 OSB board is 32 sq. ft and only cost about $20 bucks in HD.... 

and the plastic sheet come as a big roll in HD cost approx. $128 per big roll..

my $800 sq. ft basement use approx 2 plastic rolls and 800 sq. ft. of OSB board...

anyway... the drycore doesn't make sense, more expensive, take long time to install.. and same idea ...

yes you need OSB board.... if you go to speciality store... may able to get a better price than HD....


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## tpagel (Jan 30, 2008)

You are right. I screwed up in not figuring the OSB at 32 SF per panel. Lowes sells 7/16" 4'x8' OSB sub floor board for less than $8 a piece, soif a roll of your plastic can cover roughly 400SF for $128, then the whole system costs less than $0.60/SF, as opposed to the $1.47 for dricore, and there are less seams where something could go wrong! Thanks for the clarification. You just saved me a couple hundred bucks!


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

I wouldn't use 7/16" OSB for the floor, use 3/4". What do you plan on putting down as a finished floor?


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

Even though your basement is dry now, anything organic used as a sub floor in a basement is something I would not recommend. Basements are prone to water accidents, such as plumbing or water heater leakage, condensation, changes in the water table do to a heavier rain season, etc... 
As for the sub floor choice, you can try a product called ThermalDry. It is an interlocking thermal tile system specifically designed for basements, 100% waterproof and inorganic so it won't support mold growth. If you are planning to lay carpet, they have the unfinished option, but they also have the all in one solutions: finished flooring tiles in different colors you can install directly over concrete, with no adhesives.
http://www.totalbasementfinishing.com/basement-floor-tiles.php

If you'd like the look and feel of hardwood, in a 100% waterproof solution, there is also this all in one flooring option called MillCreek, which can also be installed over concrete, no sub floor needed.
http://www.totalbasementfinishing.com/millcreek-floor.php

You can walk over those as soon as you lay'em, if there is a crack in the concrete, you can lift and inspect, if a piece ever gets damaged or worn, you just replace it without disturbing the rest. And if you ever move, you can take your flooring with you and lay it on your new home's basement!


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## tpagel (Jan 30, 2008)

47_47 said:


> I wouldn't use 7/16" OSB for the floor, use 3/4". What do you plan on putting down as a finished floor?


OK I can do that. The finish material will be Pergo laminate floor, and the space we are talking about in my case (didn't mean to hijack the thread) is a slab on grade first floor living area


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Flooring manufacturers have specifications of the subfloor for a proper installation and warrantee of their products. I would research what pergo wants as a subfloor in this case (vapor barrier, subfloor thickness, sleeper spacing...).


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*This all sound very nice...if only the are not expensive*



CyFree said:


> Even though your basement is dry now, anything organic used as a sub floor in a basement is something I would not recommend. Basements are prone to water accidents, such as plumbing or water heater leakage, condensation, changes in the water table do to a heavier rain season, etc...
> As for the sub floor choice, you can try a product called ThermalDry. It is an interlocking thermal tile system specifically designed for basements, 100% waterproof and inorganic so it won't support mold growth. If you are planning to lay carpet, they have the unfinished option, but they also have the all in one solutions: finished flooring tiles in different colors you can install directly over concrete, with no adhesives.
> http://www.totalbasementfinishing.com/basement-floor-tiles.php
> 
> ...


these are sounds make sense and very nice... but I wonder would it be very expensive.... this is the most important part... afterall, it is just a basement.... you don't want to spend mega bucks on it...


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## mikenos (Jul 23, 2008)

*make sure there are no water leaks*

Hi,

I would recommend a solution which allows air to circulate underneath. It will prevent mold growth. 

Also, before you finish your basement, make sure there are no water leaks or humidity in your basement. I came across a good article at 
http://handyowner.com/2008/07/13/repair-basement-water-leak/

Mikenos


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*that is what that dricore and the other one try to do*



mikenos said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would recommend a solution which allows air to circulate underneath. It will prevent mold growth.
> Mikenos


that is exactly what the dricore and the other system the author of this thread trying to use will do... it use big plastic stubs underneath to raise the whole flooring... and this plastic stuff can stand extreme weight without collasping and allow therefore air to circulate underneath.... should there be minor water invasion into the basement...


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## RenovatorLLC (Jun 8, 2008)

master splinter said:


> I starting to finish my basement, right now it is a 1300 square foot room with a furnace in the middle. I am planing two bedrooms for the kids, washroom and a large rec room with a gas fireplace. I live in southern Ontario with fairly cold winters should I install a subfloor. My basement doesn't have any water problems. Has anyone used the Dricore subfloor system it look like the perfect solution but cost $7.00 for one 2 foot square. Any help or advice would be a great help.
> thanks


Prior to installing a bedroom in a basement, you will need to consult your Building Department. Building Codes define egress requirements, and I believe that each bedroom is required to have it's own point of approved egess path. For basements, this typically requires a large window and window well/ladder system. The BI office would be able to help you when you go to pull a permit, which would be required around here.


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

KUIPORNG said:


> these are sounds make sense and very nice... but I wonder would it be very expensive.... this is the most important part... afterall, it is just a basement.... you don't want to spend mega bucks on it...


The thing here is... if I understood correctly, the poster is going to use it for more than "just a basement".. his kids will sleep in. It will be an extra living space. 

The reason I suggested those is... they have all the advantages of the drycore, (floating, interlocking, plastic tiles with a system that allows the air to flow underneath), they act as a thermal/vapor barrier and they all an all in one solution. You don't need to spend on the sub floor and then some more on carpet, laminates or whatever flooring you choose.

In addition here's one lesson I learned (the hard way). There is no such a thing as "just a basement", even if you are not planning to use the space for anything but storage. What happens in a basement, spreads to the whole house. If t is moldy, humid, musty it is a burden on your health (studies show that 1/3 of the air you breathe in your house comes from the basement), your home and your pocket (the humid air from the basement costs a lot more to cool and to heat).

And by the way, I agree with Renovator: check local building codes. I just assumed you did, but it is a great reminder if you didn't.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*The Drycore solution is already very deluxe...*



CyFree said:


> The thing here is... if I understood correctly, the poster is going to use it for more than "just a basement".. his kids will sleep in. It will be an extra living space.
> 
> The reason I suggested those is... they have all the advantages of the drycore, (floating, interlocking, plastic tiles with a system that allows the air to flow underneath), they act as a thermal/vapor barrier and they all an all in one solution. You don't need to spend on the sub floor and then some more on carpet, laminates or whatever flooring you choose.
> 
> ...


 
The Drycore/ or the cheaper alike solution is already very deluxe... it won't cost molding..etc. I installed mind with the cheaper alike solution a year ago and my basement still solid and sound.... no matter what subfloor solution you used, if the basement leaks... it will mold no matter what... the pre-requestic is that the basement has no leak... if there is leak .... no renovation should be proceeded.... the drycore solution will help minor moisture problem in the wall and therefore subfloor... but not major leak.... 

basements here in Canada is very cold... even in summer... unless it is a walk out basement... it is not really suitable for living.... even there is no mold.... it is great for recreation...etc. though...


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## dstylez (Feb 11, 2009)

KUI****G said:


> The Drycore/ or the cheaper alike solution is already very deluxe... it won't cost molding..etc. I installed mind with the cheaper alike solution a year ago and my basement still solid and sound.... no matter what subfloor solution you used, if the basement leaks... it will mold no matter what... the pre-requestic is that the basement has no leak... if there is leak .... no renovation should be proceeded.... the drycore solution will help minor moisture problem in the wall and therefore subfloor... but not major leak....
> 
> basements here in Canada is very cold... even in summer... unless it is a walk out basement... it is not really suitable for living.... even there is no mold.... it is great for recreation...etc. though...


Hey KUI****G,

How did you secure the OSB and Platon to your floor?

Thanks!


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## joel v. (Jan 26, 2009)

What we did was take some 1x2 cedar strips and shimed them up to get the floor fairly level. We spaced tem 12" o.c. W screwed them down with a screw every 1.5 feet and then screwed 5/8" plywood on that with 1 1/4" screws. Total cost would be about 75 cents a squarefoot. The cedar strips were free and the plywood was $20 a sheet. I should also mention that we placed tar paper between the cedar and the plywood. Cedar works for this becasue it doesn't rot.


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## sunjwd (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm a DIY newbie planning my basement.

Echoing other posts, I don't think any system can handle a flood.
Luckily I live in Southern Ontario in Canada where the air is quite
dry, the water table low (where I live), and grading codes are not
prone to flooding.

I have been advised to leave the area around the water heater
unfinished (the floor drain is about 1 ft away from the water tank)
and build a utility room around the water heater and furnace.

Platon, Dricore, and these systems seem engineered to keep the moist
out by acting as a vapour barrier above the concrete - while leaving an
air gap for the concrete to breathe. I assume the air gap also has
insulation value.
But that's not much insulation and you get that "chilly basement feel" even
if it is dry.

For an alternative, my Mike Holmes Do It Right book advocates this:
0. concrete basement floor
1. 1 inch foam board (XPS is apparently ok), seams tuck taped
2. 3/4 OSB
Everything fixed to the concrete via Tapcon screws. The pain in the butt
is putting a squirt of caulking into each Tapcon hole.

The foam board and OSB together is enough resistance to be a vapour
barrier = no dampness.
The foam board is semi-permeable = concrete can breathe.
The foam is of course an insulator (R7 per inch for the good stuff) = warmth.

If Platon is that cheap, how about sacrifice one more inch of height and do:
a. concrete basement floor
b. platon
c. 1 inch foam board
d. 3/4 OSB (attach all with Tapcon)
This should be dry AND warm.

What do the experts think?


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## Kamadake (Apr 17, 2009)

dstylez said:


> Hey KUI****G,
> 
> How did you secure the OSB and Platon to your floor?
> 
> Thanks!


I installed this system in my basement. I used 5/8" T&G OSB on top of the Platon and used Tapcons to hold it to the concrete. The true Tapcons are expensive, 100 for $25 but they do hold very well.


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## ctkeebler (Nov 8, 2009)

sunjwd said:


> I'm a DIY newbie planning my basement.
> 
> Echoing other posts, I don't think any system can handle a flood.
> Luckily I live in Southern Ontario in Canada where the air is quite
> ...


Im looking for the answer to this question now, (april 2010) what did you decide to do adn how did it work out?


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## CyFree (Jul 22, 2008)

What most people forget is that basements flood for more reasons than a high water table, bad drainage or heavy rains. 

There are plumbing accidents and leaky water heater tanks, broken washing machines and hoses that come lose, backed up drains. 

A running toilette, an overflown bath tub upstairs.. all that water will end up in your basement. It is not a matter of if, but when.

Everything organic, porous and absorbent will soak up water and, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the CDC, if they are not completely dry in 48 hours, mold will set. They will need to be removed and discarded. You can say goodbye to your drywall, fiberglass insulation, wood studs carpet and, of course, wooden sub floors.

If you live in the US, I learned recently, even if you have flood insurance (regular homeowners insurance doesn't cover flood), there are limitations when it comes to basements. Some of these materials might not be covered. 

Inorganic, 100% plastic flooring and sub flooring tiles will not soak water and will probably be dry way before the specified 48 hours. In addition, they are floating and interlocking tiles; if the basement floods and they don't dry on their own, you can remove them, wipe them dry or take them outside to air dry, and then put them back. You can also remove just a few and blow a fan to allow the slab and tiles to dry.

When it comes to basement there is "cheap" and there is cost effective. Sometimes it is worth to spend a little bit more on something that not only survive many floods, but will last for many years.

The "cheap" is not that "cheap" if you have to re-do everything the next time you have a plumbing leak or your sump pump stops working.


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## ctkeebler (Nov 8, 2009)

CyFree said:


> What most people forget is that basements flood for more reasons than a high water table, bad drainage or heavy rains.
> 
> There are plumbing accidents and leaky water heater tanks, broken washing machines and hoses that come lose, backed up drains.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. That is way Im trying to determine the best way tp put down a subfloor.

From the previous poster he put forward several different options for a subfloor. 

(1) XPS directly over the concrete floor then plywood over that.

(2) Dimpled plastic over the concrete and plywood over that

(3) Dimpled plastic over the concrete, then xps foam then plywood

(4) vapor barrier then traditional sleepers with xps between sleepers and plywood over that

(5) same as above but without the xps foam.

Im just looking for advice/recommendations on what the experts think is the best option or advice/recommendations from DIYERs who have used one of the options and what their thoughts were.


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## Jaco2112 (Mar 16, 2011)

*Sub floor - Sleeper system*

My issues with sleeper system flooring. 1) Be aware that the sleeper system is very labor intensive if you have larger space. Moving in dozens of 2 by 4s and sheets of plywood is brutal I am seeing 7/16 that's heavy stuff. Also you should be using tapcon screws and that is a ton of drilling (sleepers then the plywood), buy a dozen bits. 2) I am not a big fan of the hundred plus of screw holes that necessary into the concrete floor. 3) I have never understood the need or concept behind plastic sheathing on a concrete floor, hot room cold floor you will get moisture, it's always better to let it escape than to let it sit and grow mold under the plastic which it will do, there is always some organic material around, like sawdust. 4) cost: sleepers, quality plywood, tapcon screws, wood screws, a bunch of bits (pray you don't lose a drill), load in labor, and most people add rigid 1.5 inch foam insulation between sleeper voids, you are very close to if not over $1.49 a foot which is what dricore is $5.96 per panel at Menards

So in closing I would wait for Menards to do that 11% off thing and go with a dri-core like floating system, or none at all.


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## tpagel (Jan 30, 2008)

I have a slab on grade house and am renovating the flooring soon. I am putting in a floating laminate system. Platon says you can put the laminate directly on the Platon sheets. Hate to be cheap about things, but I think I am going to skip all the foam stuff and just let the air gap do its thing. Other option I would consider is DriCore, but the price is a barrier.


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## rjsmott (Jan 21, 2013)

*any new products?*

so some of these posts are old..
im looking for an inroganic subfloor to install vinyl plank flooring over.
so no OSB, no plywood, nothing that has WOOD in the name - 
would like to hear what people are using.


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## Ang987123 (Jan 22, 2013)

http://387c5x04o3bqdubsha3gr1qmeu.hop.clickbank.net/?tid=987123

Here's a link to something I found that could give you some other ideas too. Plenty awesome projects here.


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