# Fire Stick & YouTube TV



## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

It had to happen sooner or later. With the latest billing, Cox Communications finally raised our rate high enough to prompt us to cut the cord – or at least, most of it. We gathered up the cable boxes and associated hardware, returned them to the Cox store and cancelled the video service. 

The video service was going to cost $130/mth. While home for Christmas vacation, my son-in-law had given me an Amazon Fire Stick which when properly set up provided all the viewing options we care about, especially when paired with YouTube TV which has a subscription cost of $50/mth (some other streaming services are cheaper). Net savings on the video = $80/mth.

Cox internet service (“Internet Preferred”) currently seems to be the best option in my area, so we kept that. Bundled with the video, the rate was $76; unbundled, it went up to $81. Overall, we’ll be saving ~$75/mth. 

Most people have probably heard that you can put a frog in a pot of water, place the pot on the stove, and gradually raise the heat until the frog boils without ever realizing what is happening and jumping out (not sure if this is fact or fiction, but it is a good analogy). Too many businesses offering subscription services seem to incorporate the “boil the frog” approach!


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

We cut the cord in a big way 6 months ago. We currently only have Hulu plus ($12/month), and our Spectrum Internet ($64.99/month) You really just learn to change your viewing habits. I could not be happier with my choice.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Cut the cord at the beach house a few months back.


I use an antenna for networks which are free in full HD (unlike cable which is not), and the a Tivo with Amazon Prime.


I can record 4 channels at the same time, watch when I want, and have more choices than before, and none of those stupid channels we are forced to pay for but don't watch.


Total savings is $80.00 per month.




I also use streaming from my laptop to the big screen via Miracast, which is free.


No lack of programming to watch at all.:biggrin2:


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

My problem is when the NFL game I want to watch is on NFLN. I can probably find an illegal stream or something, but the picture quality will blow.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I cut the cord years ago but Comcast got me back for one TV because the cost was only a tiny bit higher than no TV service. The other TVs are on antenna for broadcast and FireStick for streaming. For me the setup that works is a basic TV plan with very limited DVR and I use a HTPC with TV tuner card and PLEX for unlimited OTA DVR and streaming. PLEX is killer.

One thing to be aware of if really cutting the TV service out is that some Internet providers have data caps that you can easily exceed streaming. I just ran into this issue with Mediacom who provides my mom's service. My deadbeat niece moved in with her 4 months ago and mom started getting big overage bills from Mediacom for busting her data caps. I went into the router and watched traffic and soon found the culprit. Then I had to explain to my mom what data is... and tell my niece to stop using her Chromecast until she gets a job and pays for the service.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

I've been sharing a satellite service with my ex and that made the 
cost reasonable...but...she just let me know she doesn't want it 
anymore cuz she's watching everything online. 
Guess it's time to figure out wtf firestick and all these gadgets are...
Might look for help here.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

FireStick, Chromecast, Roku, etc, are just smart TV platforms that have apps to connect to various streaming services like Prime Video, Hulu, YouTube, Netflix, PLEX, etc, etc. The devices themselves have no service fee, but many of the other services do have their own fees. These plug into HDMI port on your TV. But you do need an Internet service and wifi network to access any of the content. Depending on your TV you don't need the sticks if the TV is newish and has a decent innate smart TV platform. One benefit to the sticks is that if you have different brands of TVs they can all work the same as smart TVs... and the sticks firmwares seem to be kept more up to date than the TVs.





CodeMatters said:


> I've been sharing a satellite service with my ex and that made the
> cost reasonable...but...she just let me know she doesn't want it
> anymore cuz she's watching everything online.
> Guess it's time to figure out wtf firestick and all these gadgets are...
> Might look for help here.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And therein is one of the main problems. Sports, and the fees they demand that drive up cable rates. It's hard to get a package without the ESPNs, etc. I mean I love sports but the costs and fees have gotten out of control.

The other main issue is that in our chaotic broadband environment the FCC has allowed rampant vertical integration where single entities own and control broadcast and Internet infrastructure as well as much of the content. Hence everything is moving to be behind pay walls, even a lot of stuff that used to be broadcast. Won't be long until the broadcast airwaves will be 24/7 infomercials. Halfway there already. If I were king for a day...



huesmann said:


> My problem is when the NFL game I want to watch is on NFLN. I can probably find an illegal stream or something, but the picture quality will blow.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

There's a new player coming to the streaming products that may well change the landscape yet again.


Peacock.


This is due to start up in April or july and ill be a free with ads (like with an antenna), a lower cost tier with less ads and more content, or a $10.00 per month with no ads.


We will see how this goes.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

We'll see. The problem with all these services is knowing exactly what content they have... and how that inventory and the costs will change over time. And no one service is likely to have everything you want. IMO this is all a chaotic mess.



ktkelly said:


> There's a new player coming to the streaming products that may well change the landscape yet again.
> 
> 
> Peacock.
> ...


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> But you do need an Internet service and wifi


Yes, you need internet, but not necessarily WiFi. Dunno about the other devices, but there's an optional ethernet adapter you can get for the Fire TVs. And your TV, if it has on-board apps (Hulu, Netflix, etc.) probably also has an ethernet port.

But odds are your intarwebs service comes with a router that has WiFi anyway.

I prefer the LAN cable though, if you're streaming 4K media and doing other stuff on the internet at the same time.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Agree, if you are able to get an ethernet cable to your TV that is ideal. But modern WiFi routers are plenty fast enough for multiple 4K streams. I have my HTPC connected to the router via gigabit cable so that part of any intranet streaming is very fast.

I never use the provided Comcast gateway (modem, router, phone box) that you have to pay a monthly fee for. I have my own components and keep them up to date. I also never use their phone service even if it is bundled. I have an Ooma Telo for that part.



huesmann said:


> Yes, you need internet, but not necessarily WiFi. Dunno about the other devices, but there's an optional ethernet adapter you can get for the Fire TVs. And your TV, if it has on-board apps (Hulu, Netflix, etc.) probably also has an ethernet port.
> 
> But odds are your intarwebs service comes with a router that has WiFi anyway.
> 
> I prefer the LAN cable though, if you're streaming 4K media and doing other stuff on the internet at the same time.


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

I havent had cable service in over 10 years. Only time I see live TV is when I leave the house, or its being streamed live online.

All major sporting events are streamed in 4k on youtube
All major political events are streamed by multiple sources online
Some news casts are streamed live
Any MAJOR news event, such as the earth quake in Japan in 2011, mass shootings, ect are all streamed live online

Why do you need cable service?

Going further, depending how techy you are, or your friends/family are you can also gain access to most TV shows for free and comercial free... while it falls into a legal grey area, you can also host your own Plex server which will stream your movie/TV collection to anyone with the right credentials wether at home or on vacation.

So why pay for TV service? I have an ISP, and a VPN... total cost per month for both is like $68


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## roughneck (Nov 28, 2014)

Subscribed. 
I’m looking for something to put in the RV for when we go away. I have 2 flatscreens out there but service isn’t always great. 
I used to hook my phone up to them with an iPhone to HDMI adaptor cord and stream prime video. But when apple changed their iOS it blocked the phone from doing that. 
So I’m looking for a streaming service to use out there.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

If your phone service has a personal hotspot you could stream any of these services (assuming you have 4G LTE connectivity out there) from the phone to FireSticks or Chromecast sticks on the TVs via wifi. This would work well if you have unlimited 4G data... or if not and you maybe only spend a few days there per month. This option will be even better when 5G service and phones fully roll out.

Another thing you could of if you own content like movies is copy them onto a laptop and bring it out to the RV and jack into the TVs with an HDMI cable to play them. Or keep a router out there and bring the laptop running a PLEX server there and connect to the router. Then the TVs' sticks could stream that stuff via wifi.




roughneck said:


> Subscribed.
> I’m looking for something to put in the RV for when we go away. I have 2 flatscreens out there but service isn’t always great.
> I used to hook my phone up to them with an iPhone to HDMI adaptor cord and stream prime video. But when apple changed their iOS it blocked the phone from doing that.
> So I’m looking for a streaming service to use out there.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

My problem is I love college football, and my favorite team (season ticket holder) is hard to watch without ESPN or Fox sports.
They did start a new ACC network last year, but my cable provider doesn't carry it.
I do have a broken firestick that helps with watching shows that I have missed, but it is hit or miss depending on usage.


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## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

jbfan said:


> …I do have a broken firestick that helps with watching shows that I have missed, but it is hit or miss depending on usage.


I have one older (original model?) Firestick -- still works, but just doesn't have all the features of the new models. I put it in the guest room, least usage there.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I was going to start a new thread.... but this one is helping me so I will coattail....Thanks to everyone giving help.

1) I would like to cut the cable service cord.

2) I am woefully ignorent of all these different technologies. As best you can,please dumb down any of your answers for me as I learn.

3) I have 6 TV's. Three are roku...3 are not. (They are used seldom in guest rooms, but I would like them operative for there seldom use. I could sell them, and get roku's if that simplifies my issues, or maybe put them on a firestick.

4) Simplification is probably best for me. (I don't know half the initials used above PLEX isp,vpn, 4GLTE) etc):sad:

5) Obviously in cutting the cord, my objective is to save some cable fees.

6) I'll ask questions incrementally. Thanks for any advice/answers.

Questions to start:

a)Is Firestick or chromcast just a service like Roku that costs nothing and just hooks you up to purchase other straeming services. Do you just buy a stick with no rental fees. Would it be feasable to just plug a little firestick into my non ROKU TV's. The tV's have usb and hdmi ports.

b) If feasable, could they independently access (for free...no additional charge) any streaming source that I had subscribed to on my main TV via ROKU.

c) If I understand what they are, Is there any inate/material difference between firestick and chromcast or maybe amazon prime.

TIA


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Ans to (a): Yes, you have all this correct.

Ans to (b): Yes, but it depends on your account for each service and how many simultaneous streams it allows. For instance my Netflix allows 2. Those can be anywhere on any platform.

Ans to (c): I have never used a Chromecast but I believe the 2 devices are pretty much the same. Might be a little different mix of apps and services. Also the voice control would be different. Firestick comes with an Alexa like voce control remote. Since the Firestick sits on your network I believe it will also accept voice commands from Echo and Echodots you may have around.

FYI PLEX is a PC app that if you go premium includes an online guide and DVR function that works pretty much like your normal cable or TIVO box. But it costs only $100 for life. You need to put a TV tuner card in the PC (and have it connected to an antenna) with the app and with a big hard drive you can pretty much record entire seasons of broadcast shows in HD. Then these stream to all your smart TVs, Firesticks, Chromecasts, PC's, tablets, phones on your home network and LTE cell networks. There is a bit of a learning curve and t takes a bit of fiddling but is a great thing for cable cutters to have.






MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Questions to start:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

raylo32 said:


> Ans to (a): Yes, you have all this correct.
> 
> Ans to (b): Yes, but it depends on your account for each service and how many simultaneous streams it allows. For instance my Netflix allows 2. Those can be anywhere on any platform.
> 
> ...


RAYLO.....Really THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've read others of your posts here and you have a great way of explaining things clearly for the non-technical (dumb) of us.:wink2:

Couple more questions:

1) Is it difficult to put a PLEX card in my laptop. (I have put extra ram in a desktop, but have never been inside my laptop.) $100 forever is great.

2) Ditto as above with an antenna. Where does that go

3) If my laptop hard drive is getting full....would it work to use portable Seagate drives.

My thoughts are that my wife and I have wanted to catch up on a lot of older movies we never had time to see. I've been looking at some of the streamers like Netflex, Hulu,Amazon etc.......and it seems at this time those old movies are owned by all different streamers. 

So being retired, I was wondering if I could subscibe for a month on different services and make a library on PLEX that we could then watch when we had time over the next year.

Do you think that would be feasable.

Thanks Again

Peter


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## adamz (May 13, 2018)

"Ditto as above with an antenna. Where does that go"


For free, digital, over-the-air broadcasts, you can connect it to a laptop USB port if you purchase the correct type of hardware. Example below by following the link.
https://hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_dualhd.html


But receiving TV channels via an antenna on your laptop is contingent upon the strength of the off-air signal at your home. It's the same as the old days where you mounted an antenna on your roof and perhaps had a rotor to spin the antenna. But the difference is your antenna is connected the the USB port on your laptop. The laptop and its companion USB device become a digital TV set.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Peter,

It's not a PLEX card. The card you need is a TV Tuner card. Hauppage is one of the main manufacturers. It is the same as a digital tuner that comes in a TV set but on a PCI expansion card and basically turns your computer into a TV that can receive broadcast channels. PLEX is just an app that taps into the TV signals from the card.

The card has coax input for an antenna. You just connect the antenna like you would on a TV set. These are full size PCI expansion cards for desktop PCs. Your laptop will not have any expansion slots and certainly can't take PCI expansion cards. I don't know of any laptops that have built in TV tuners but someone might make one. You really need a desktop PC to do this. And yes, you can use USB and network hard drives as well as PC internal hard drives. They are so big and cheap now...

I also don't know any way to tap into streaming services to record the programs. Alls the TV card gets you is over the air broadcast. Some hackers probably have that figured out but it is beyond me.

PLEX will stream all sorts of media if you own it... movies, music, pictures, whatever. If you have these digitally you just put them on the PLEX server PC hard drive and all the other devices can access them.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> a)Is Firestick or chromcast just a service like Roku that costs nothing and just hooks you up to purchase other straeming services. Do you just buy a stick with no rental fees. Would it be feasable to just plug a little firestick into my non ROKU TV's. The tV's have usb and hdmi ports.


Chromecast is not a service. You pay $35 for the hardware (the little USB plug-in) and it really is just acting as a cord from your phone to your tv. So whatever I have streaming on my phone, whether through a service like Netflix, Disney+, or Youtube, I can cast it to the tv. All of these physical plug-in devices also give you access to some shows they have rights to, but you can still access these same shows because . . . 

A "Roku" tv, or even a basic "smart" tv, just means that some primitive software (the same basic apps you would install on your phone like Netflix, Hulu etc) allow you to connect to their "webpage," just as if you would go to say www.netflix.... on your computer and log in manually. It's more seamless and there's some other things you can do (like connect to Alexa and stuff), but in a nutshell that's basically what all this stuff is.

So, if I want to watch a Netflix show (because I pay $7.99/mo to Netflix to access their content) on my tv, I can:
1. buy an expensive SmartTV with Netflix (and a limited amount of other services) pre-installed to stream direct to that tv
2. buy a Chromecast and stream Netflix (or any other service you may ever want) from any of my handheld devices or computer to any old tv that has a USB port. And move the Chromecast to another tv if needed or if the tv busts.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

raylo32 said:


> The problem with all these services is knowing exactly what content they have... and how that inventory and the costs will change over time. And no one service is likely to have everything you want. *IMO this is all a chaotic mess.*


That's the truth!

So in the old days, *Comcast/Dish/Direct* went to all these companies, who had 3 or 4 channels each, and bundled them together and charged us:
- lots of channels you didn't care to see
- other channels you want to see but not included so had to pay more for a premium package

So today, *WE individually* have to separately subscribe to these companies, who have 3 or 4 services each:
- lots of shows you don't care to see
- other shows you want to see, so you have to track down and pay for that service

Even though we cut out the middle man, eventually we'll have a subscription list of ten $8 monthly services, which puts us right back where cable service was! :wallbash:


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

But it is even worse than that. The root of the problem is that they allow concurrent ownership of both content AND the all aspects of the delivery pipelines (internet, cable and broadcast). So cable providers don't want to give you cheap fast internet service without also paying for their programming hence all the bundling of services and such. Plus things that used to be broadcast get put behind paywalls; and with net neutrality gone certain networks favor their own content.

In my perfect world the ISP's would be quasi utilities like the electric utilities that merely provide a fast internet pipeline and nothing more. Then we could get our content directly from the creators/owners with no one's thumb on the scale. And since we wouldn't be paying cable companies a premium that includes overhead for their programming that we don't necessarily want we'd have more $ for stuff we do want. 



3onthetree said:


> That's the truth!
> 
> 
> So today, *WE individually* have to separately subscribe to these companies, who have 3 or 4 services each:
> ...


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> It's not a PLEX card. The card you need is a TV Tuner card. Hauppage is one of the main manufacturers. It is the same as a digital tuner that comes in a TV set but on a PCI expansion card and basically turns your computer into a TV that can receive broadcast channels. PLEX is just an app that taps into the TV signals from the card.
> 
> The card has coax input for an antenna. You just connect the antenna like you would on a TV set. These are full size PCI expansion cards for desktop PCs. Your laptop will not have any expansion slots and certainly can't take PCI expansion cards.


You can't use a PCIe tuner card in a laptop, but you can get a USB TV tuner. Hauppauge even makes one.

However, I would recommend a HDHomeRun instead. Access to two or more tuners, in case you have shows that air at the same time. Also works with Plex.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, definitely get the dual tuner (or more) whichever one you get! I need to look into HD HomeRun and current Hauppage offerings... I've had my current TV card for years. It'd be nice to have even more than 2 tuner capability.



huesmann said:


> Y
> 
> However, I would recommend a HDHomeRun instead. Access to two or more tuners, in case you have shows that air at the same time. Also works with Plex.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

HDHomeRuns make it so easy to load up on tuners, since they're all just connected with network cable. If you tied 4 dual tuners to a switch, you could theoretically have 8 tuners. Not sure how much processing power you'd need to record 8 shows at once, though!


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I see Hauppage even has a quad tuner version now. That would be easiest for me, just plug and play into my current HTPC. Plus processing power as you say. My PC is also already recording 24/7 and streaming (on demand) 6 network ip security cams via BlueIris. It's hacking it so far but might need to be upgraded with more tuners and simultaneous recording. Although I am not sure I really need more than the 2 at one time. Could be an exception sometime I suppose.



huesmann said:


> HDHomeRuns make it so easy to load up on tuners, since they're all just connected with network cable. If you tied 4 dual tuners to a switch, you could theoretically have 8 tuners. Not sure how much processing power you'd need to record 8 shows at once, though!


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

What are you using for recording? Plex?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

For TV, yes, PLEX DVR. I bought the lifetime PLEX Pass. For security cams, BlueIris. PC has several big hard drives. 




huesmann said:


> What are you using for recording? Plex?


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

I like to chime in if I could.
He's already got a Firestick. Put an Antenna on the Roof, hook it up to the Amazon Recast:

https://smile.amazon.com/Fire-TV-Re...?keywords=Amazon+Recast&qid=1581441349&sr=8-3

It then hooks up to the Firestick and you can *watch and record* live TV.
It works just like a DVR or Tivo.

I installed several of these for "Cable-cutters" and Folks are very happy.
The Amazon recast cost you no fees, and will record up to 4 Shows at the same time.
No PC needed.
:vs_cool:


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

That looks like a great option for those not having or wanting to work with a PC. Is the programming guide good? Is it tailored to your locality or is it more generic?



Deja-vue said:


> I like to chime in if I could.
> He's already got a Firestick. Put an Antenna on the Roof, hook it up to the Amazon Recast:
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Fire-TV-Re...?keywords=Amazon+Recast&qid=1581441349&sr=8-3
> ...


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

raylo32 said:


> That looks like a great option for those not having or wanting to work with a PC. Is the programming guide good? Is it tailored to your locality or is it more generic?


The programming Guide looks like TiVo or any other DVR.
The Folks who got it installed, love it.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Deja-vue said:


> The programming Guide looks like TiVo or any other DVR.
> The Folks who got it installed, love it.


DEJA.....THANK YA SIR.........

I am about to experiment with antennas..... 

I live approx 80 miles from a major market (Las Vegas).

Do you have any advice as to brand of antenna??????????????????????

When I get the time I'm going to bring home several from BEST BUY...mainly so I can return them if they don't work.

But, I really do not mind cost, if I'm relatively sure they will work.I'm really not sure, as their seems to be a large differnce in antenna pricing.

TIA

Peter


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have something like this in my attic and it works pretty well here and I get all the major networks and other stuff, like 25 channels in all. But I am only about 40-50 miles out. But it is an antenna and is subject to weather and atmospheric conditions... and even though they say they are omni-directional they really aren't so you can improve reception for some channels by aiming... and maybe simultaneously weaken others. Have to play with it to get the best mix.

https://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Dir...s+direct&qid=1581975486&s=electronics&sr=1-11




MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> DEJA.....THANK YA SIR.........
> 
> I am about to experiment with antennas.....
> 
> ...


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## adamz (May 13, 2018)

80 miles is a long way away from a TV transmitter. The terrain and your relative height (do you in a valley or on a hill, blocked by large structures, is it all flat?) will make a difference. Putting an antenna inside an attic will degrade the signal even further. The best antennas are similar to the ones that were used years ago, the ones mounted outdoors with a rotor to spin them. In some cases, a pre-amplifier will help boost the signal to something that is use-able. To be honest, it can be a guessing game if you don't have meters to read signal strengths. But going to Best Buy and bring home several antennas is a good idea. 



This link might help, but by no means is it 100% accurate, just put in your address data: https://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29


Another helpful off-air link. I like this one because it draws an image of the antenna location relative to your address (north, south, east or west): https://antennaweb.org/


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Check antennaweb.org to see what kind of antenna you need to pick up the stations in your area.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, I had forgotten about that but that's how I set mine up years ago.




huesmann said:


> Check antennaweb.org to see what kind of antenna you need to pick up the stations in your area.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Do you have any advice as to brand of antenna??????????????????????
> 
> Peter



Since my parents have been having problems with OTA TV reception I've started watching this guy, Antenna Man, on YouTube. He knows his stuff, and recommends the ChannelMaster CM3020.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Here is a good one, Range 200 miles, comes with Remote control for Fine tuning.

https://www.amazon.com/Five-Star-Ou...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


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