# Water heater (Gas) not working



## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

Need more information:

When you say no hot water, do you mean "none", or "not very much".

Is the pilot light going out?

Is is trying to light and going out, or it just won't light? 

When it quit working in prior weeks, what got it going again?


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

CallMeChaz said:


> Need more information:
> 
> When you say no hot water, do you mean "none", or "not very much".
> 
> ...


Answers : None - Not at all heating the water
Is the pilot light going out? <== I don't know how to check this out ?

When it quit working in prior weeks, what got it going again? <== I rotated the thermostat to all the way to left.. I hear a click sound as if gas flow started.. 

Now the current position is all the way left only.. I am a newbie on this front.. Don't know how it works..


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## comp (Jan 14, 2008)

is the chimny hot ??? you dont have to bend over to look at that thru the cover


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

cprao said:


> I have a relatively new gas water heater and stopped heating water since morning.. It happenned couple of times also for the last two weeks.
> I moved the thermostat on clockwise and it was working good.
> 
> Currently thermostat is all the way to the left (clockwise) but still the water is not getting heat.
> ...


Sorry; In your Third paragraph you state "Thermostat is all the way to the left (Clockwise)". To the left would be COUNTER-CLOCKWISE; and most Thermostats would be in the "Lowest Temperature" position.!


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## comp (Jan 14, 2008)

spark plug said:


> Sorry; In your Third paragraph you state "Thermostat is all the way to the left (Clockwise)". To the left would be COUNTER-CLOCKWISE; and most Thermostats would be in the "Lowest Temperature" position.!


 true ,,,:thumbsup:


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

comp said:


> true ,,,:thumbsup:


Ok. My bad. The thermostat is turned all the way to clockwise direction.
The same can be seen on the picture.. 2nd link



Just checked the chimney.. No it is not hot.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

I have opened the bottom cover of the heater.. I see the following set-up. Don't understand what exactly is this ?

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water Heater/P2080048.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water Heater/P2080047.jpg


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## ryecandy (Feb 4, 2010)

cprao said:


> http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water Heater/P2080047.jpg


I'm not a pro but somewhat familiar with the setup. I believe that there should be a pilot flame inside that small hole.. Take a peak and if you don't see a small flame then your pilot is out.

1. Turn the black dial "ON/Pilot" to the pilot setting.
2. Press the ignitor a few times until a flame starts.
3. Turn the black dial back to the ON setting.

If still no flame and your sure there is no flame plus not getting any hot water anyways, you could be having a coupler/ignitor problem and may want to turn the dial OFF until a service tech can check out the problem.

Watch who you call for help. Some guys will charge $80 to walk in your door and say "Yup, its not working" (service call)
If it is a rented tank through your gas company then call them and they will send somebody out for free repairs.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

When you turned the thermostat (white knob) and heard the click, did you hear the burner come on and stay on for several minutes (or while you walked away)?

Slowly turn the thermostat all the way to the left and then all the way to the right. Do you still hear a click somewhere in the middle?

Refer to the instructions when relighting the pilot. After turning the black knob to Pilot, some models require that you hold down the red button to the left, wait 5 seconds, press the igniter (red button to the right), then wait 55 seconds, then let go of the left button and turn the black knob back to Run or On.


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

that little thingie with the wires is a non-resetable safety cut-out. why did it cut-out??? if you don't want to call a plumber, i would at least call the Factory. you may have an un-safe condition.


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## ryecandy (Feb 4, 2010)

*True*



AllanJ said:


> When you turned the thermostat (white knob) and heard the click, did you hear the burner come on and stay on for several minutes (or while you walked away)?
> 
> Slowly turn the thermostat all the way to the left and then all the way to the right. Do you still hear a click somewhere in the middle?
> 
> Refer to the instructions when relighting the pilot. After turning the black knob to Pilot, some models require that you hold down the red button to the left, wait 5 seconds, press the igniter (red button to the right), then wait 55 seconds, then let go of the left button and turn the black knob back to Run or On.


Thanks for clearing that up Allan.... That is the correct way to re-ignite most water heaters.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

AllanJ said:


> When you turned the thermostat (white knob) and heard the click, did you hear the burner come on and stay on for several minutes (or while you walked away)?
> 
> Slowly turn the thermostat all the way to the left and then all the way to the right. Do you still hear a click somewhere in the middle?
> 
> Refer to the instructions when relighting the pilot. After turning the black knob to Pilot, some models require that you hold down the red button to the left, wait 5 seconds, press the igniter (red button to the right), then wait 55 seconds, then let go of the left button and turn the black knob back to Run or On.


Thank you Allan.. Sorry for not responding to your post in the morning..

I tried your instructions in the morning ( 7 AM PST).. No luck so far.

Yes. When I turn the thermostat knob towards anti-clock wise direction, it did make a click sound.. But it looks like stopping the value. But when I turn the valve backwards, I.E. clockwise.. I don't hear any click sound.

But, But,, I did hear a click sound last time ( a few days back, when I had the same problem) when I turned the knob towards clockwise... and the water started coming hot..

This is what I did again now ( 7 PM PST)
1. Retained the postion of the thermostate all the way to clockwise
2. Turned the thermostate knob to Pilot mode
3. Pressed the red button (left to the thermostat) 
4. Counted 5
5. Continue to hold the red button
6. Pressed the another red button (ignitier) to the right of the thermostat
7. Did hear a click sound (In fact pressed this button multiple times)
8. counted 60
9. Released the red button (left to the thermostat)
10. Turned the knob to ON 

and checked the faucets after 10 mts.. no luck ..

Also I tired to peep through the hole.. I don't see any flame at all..

Any other/More help on this one is appreciated..


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## comp (Jan 14, 2008)

so the vent is cold ,,,can you make sure the gas is getting to the unit ??


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

comp said:


> so the vent is cold ,,,can you make sure the gas is getting to the unit ??


When you say unit, are you referring to the house ? If yes, gas is coming to the house since my house heater is working.

If you are asking whether the gas is coming to the water heater or not, I don't know how to check this? Can you please let me know ?


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## SubSailor (Feb 25, 2008)

Jacques said:


> that little thingie with the wires is a non-resetable safety cut-out. why did it cut-out??? if you don't want to call a plumber, i would at least call the Factory. you may have an un-safe condition.


 
Thats the piezio ignitor.


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

when i said 'thingie' i meant that safety cutout on the burner compartment access door. it's there in case the burner compartment senses overtemp,not enough air flow,etc. when it trips it shuts down everything. -turns out it is resetable, but because it's a saftey device;you have to determine why it tripped. because it's new i wouldn't suspect scale buildup. you should probably post in the plumbing section. in any event you don't want to blow your house up.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

cprao said:


> When you say unit, are you referring to the house ? If yes, gas is coming to the house since my house heater is working.
> 
> If you are asking whether the gas is coming to the water heater or not, I don't know how to check this? Can you please let me know ?


Yes. the "unit" means the hot water heater, in this case. Only way (that I know to check for gas supply is to loosen the union on the supply line, with Two pipe wrenches. I doubt, though if you should undertake this endeavor. It's time to call a plumber or handyman.:thumbsup:!
p.s.: Maybe I give up too soon?


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

Jacques said:


> when i said 'thingie' i meant that safety cutout on the burner compartment access door. it's there in case the burner compartment senses overtemp,not enough air flow,etc. when it trips it shuts down everything. -turns out it is resetable, but because it's a saftey device;you have to determine why it tripped. because it's new i wouldn't suspect scale buildup. you should probably post in the plumbing section. in any event you don't want to blow your house up.


I guess.. this may be the reason.. When we were not getting a good hot water, I rotated thermostat knob all the way to clockwise.. The water was getting overheat.. probably that is what caused the trip..

I don't except scaling because I had a service guy to plush all the water.. and the water was very clean, no traces of scaling.. So I belive the trip is just because of over heat...


How do I reset this ? Any hep ? Is it something that I can do it ?


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

spark plug said:


> Yes. the "unit" means the hot water heater, in this case. Only way (that I know to check for gas supply is to loosen the union on the supply line, with Two pipe wrenches. I doubt, though if you should undertake this endeavor. It's time to call a plumber or handyman.:thumbsup:!
> p.s.: Maybe I give up too soon?


Thank you.. As you said, I don't think I would like to do this.. 

I will try to reset the switch, if I come to know how to do it.. 

Otherwise, my last resort would be - call a service guy..


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## billy_bob_3 (Feb 5, 2010)

*Hot water heater*

Are you giving it enough time? Pilot lighting instructions usually require that you turn the thermostat to off for five minutes before commencing the pilot lighting sequence. Every time you move the thermostat counterclockwise, you may screw up the timing, and as a safety measure the boiler is not allowing the gas to come on. If you have the manual read it very carefully, and follow the directions precisely and it should light. If you don't have the manual, try calling the manufacturer or checking to see if they have instructions on the website.

If it has a piezo igniter, it may not even have a pilot light, but that is a pig with different lipstick. If it does not have a piezo igniter, than you will need a fireplace match or a barbecue lighter. Even then, lighting the pilot requires the patience of mother theresa combined with the piloting skills of Neal Armstrong. In fact, if he is available, I would try to get his help.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

billy_bob_3 said:


> Are you giving it enough time? Pilot lighting instructions usually require that you turn the thermostat to off for five minutes before commencing the pilot lighting sequence. Every time you move the thermostat counterclockwise, you may screw up the timing, and as a safety measure the boiler is not allowing the gas to come on. If you have the manual read it very carefully, and follow the directions precisely and it should light. If you don't have the manual, try calling the manufacturer or checking to see if they have instructions on the website.
> 
> If it has a piezo igniter, it may not even have a pilot light, but that is a pig with different lipstick. If it does not have a piezo igniter, than you will need a fireplace match or a barbecue lighter. Even then, lighting the pilot requires the patience of mother theresa combined with the piloting skills of Neal Armstrong. In fact, if he is available, I would try to get his help.


Addressing the Second Paragraph; A regular kitchen match at the tip of a long-nose plier will do the trick. That's what I do when (occasionally) I have to re-light the pilot.:yes:!


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## billy_bob_3 (Feb 5, 2010)

spark plug said:


> Addressing the Second Paragraph; A regular kitchen match at the tip of a long-nose plier will do the trick. That's what I do when (occasionally) I have to re-light the pilot.:yes:!


Hmm - are you sure you are not Neal Armstrong? :wink:


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

billy_bob_3 said:


> Hmm - are you sure you are not Neal Armstrong? :wink:


Why?! Because I fly in space. I'm firmly situated on Earth. What I said was, that if everything else checks out and you want to light the pilot of a water heater, ... Well. Why repeat. I think I said it clear enough...!


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

spark plug said:


> Addressing the Second Paragraph; A regular kitchen match at the tip of a long-nose plier will do the trick. That's what I do when (occasionally) I have to re-light the pilot.:yes:!


Ok. After following the instructions, the pilot light comes off after several attempts of ignition but it does not stay on.

Instructions says - I need to hold the pilot set button for a minute and the pilot light should stay on even after releasing the button.

In my case, as long as I hold the button (almost 2 minutes), the pilot light stays on but the moment I release the button, pilot light goes off..

What would be my next step from here ? Any clue ? Since the pilot light is coming what I conclude is - 1) My ignitor is working and 2)gas is coming to the appliance.. Now what can be wrong here ? what should I be checking next ? Please help.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

cprao said:


> Ok. After following the instructions, the pilot light comes off after several attempts of ignition but it does not stay on.
> 
> Instructions says - I need to hold the pilot set button for a minute and the pilot light should stay on even after releasing the button.
> 
> ...


If you remember (or you can look it up). In one of the early posts on this thread, I said that even if the pilot (light) lights while you're holding the (Red) button, but doesn't stay on, it's most likely the THERMOCOUPLE. That is a safety device to prevent the gas from the pilot leaking if there is no flame, for any reason. But that device itself can fail. Then the solution is to replace it.
(Sorry. I can't post a drawing how that device works, but I'll try to describe it.)
There is a (bare) Copper wire, where one end is attached to the flame port. The other end is connected to the pilot gas valve. If that wire senses the heat of the flame, it will open the (pilot) gas valve. That's why the requirement to hold the button for one Minute. When you release, the wire should be hot enough to keep the valve open. If it doesn't, that part (The "Thermocouple") should be replaced.:yes::huh:!


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

Jacques said:


> when i said 'thingie' i meant that safety cutout on the burner compartment access door. it's there in case the burner compartment senses overtemp,not enough air flow,etc. when it trips it shuts down everything. -turns out it is resetable, but because it's a saftey device;you have to determine why it tripped. because it's new i wouldn't suspect scale buildup. you should probably post in the plumbing section. in any event you don't want to blow your house up.


That is called a "Spill Switch". It "Locks Out" the burner when it senses carbon Monoxide, due to a blocked (exhaust) vent or chimney. :yes:!


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

spark plug said:


> If you remember (or you can look it up). In one of the early posts on this thread, I said that even if the pilot (light) lights while you're holding the (Red) button, but doesn't stay on, it's most likely the THERMOCOUPLE. That is a safety device to prevent the gas from the pilot leaking if there is no flame, for any reason. But that device itself can fail. Then the solution is to replace it.
> (Sorry. I can't post a drawing how that device works, but I'll try to describe it.)
> There is a (bare) Copper wire, where one end is attached to the flame port. The other end is connected to the pilot gas valve. If that wire senses the heat of the flame, it will open the (pilot) gas valve. That's why the requirement to hold the button for one Minute. When you release, the wire should be hot enough to keep the valve open. If it doesn't, that part (The "Thermocouple") should be replaced.:yes::huh:!


I pulled out thermocouple and planned to replace tomrrow with a new one.. Hopefully this works..


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

Jacques said:


> when i said 'thingie' i meant that safety cutout on the burner compartment access door.


YO. "Seperated by a common language" :laughing:. Hmmm, where have I heard that before.

Have ya' dug out yet?

If you come up to Maine again, you should write and I'll take you fishing on Moosehead Lake. I live on it.


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

cprao said:


> I pulled out thermocouple and planned to replace tomrrow with a new one.. Hopefully this works..


Hey, were you able to replace it? That should have solved it, unless you have a bad connection in your thermocouple circuit. 

Depending on how it's wired, you may be able to jump past the thermocouple safety just to verify that the pilot stays lit. If memory serves, it's more of a mechanical thermocouple on gas units, and you may not be able to "fool" it. Anyways, you can't leave it that way--just long enough to test it.


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

Chaz, yeah dug out and now another big storm Mon. Moosehead sounds good, i average, AFTER fishing, 17/18 Miller Lites......CPRA, you must live by yourself [no female/kids] how you coping with no hots for a week???....that little thermo -'thingie'-will shut off burner and pilot if it's tripped. pilot will go right out after you release button. to reset just push little button, in middle of thermo,= in. if you take access door off -gasket is critical- must be in perfect condition and replaced/reinstalled per manf instructions.....i've seen films of gas hot water heaters when they blow--takes the house with them, so be careful.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

CallMeChaz said:


> Hey, were you able to replace it? That should have solved it, unless you have a bad connection in your thermocouple circuit.
> 
> Depending on how it's wired, you may be able to jump past the thermocouple safety just to verify that the pilot stays lit. If memory serves, it's more of a mechanical thermocouple on gas units, and you may not be able to "fool" it. Anyways, you can't leave it that way--just long enough to test it.


that is correct. It's a (Thermo)-Mechanical device. At the other (inside) end, the copper wire is connected to a Bi-metal strip. When the heat of the wire reaches the strip, it opens the gas valve for the pilot. Provided it functions properly. Otherwise, it has to be replaced. The main burner has its own set of protection/s. When the Thermostat calls for heat, it must go through at least Two safety checkpoints. The Pressure 'Trol and the low water cutout. They're connected in series. And if there are no issues with high pressure or a low water level, the gas valve for the main burner is ready to open up.:yes:!


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

I put the new thermocouple but it still does not work.. I tried 3 times, pilot gets on but does not stay once I release the button

I think now it is time for me to call a service guy..


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

cprao said:


> I put the new thermocouple but it still does not work.. I tried 3 times, pilot gets on but does not stay once I release the button
> 
> I think now it is time for me to call a service guy..


I agree. But what you gained is a well rounded lay-person's knowledge of the workings of the hot water system. There may be some gas-flow issues (at the valve or the t. couple itself.) that are best left to an experienced service person.:thumbsup:!


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

spark plug said:


> I agree. But what you gained is a well rounded lay-person's knowledge of the workings of the hot water system. There may be some gas-flow issues (at the valve or the t. couple itself.) that are best left to an experienced service person.:thumbsup:!


Quick update. Called the guy.. He changed the input gas connection and started working.. 
I am just running out for Costco. I will come back and provide more details with pics about what he has done.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

Here are the pics.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water Heater/NewConection.gif

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water%20Heater/NewConection2.gif

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/Forex101/Water Heater/TRPvalue.gif

Earlier the gas connection from the main value was not directly connected to heater burner. It was connected to a TPV value and from the TPV value it was going into water heater.

He says that is wrong and not as per the code. It should never be connected to TPV value. Since it is connected to TPV value the gas is getting mixed with water or water vapour. He says there should not be any input to TPV and there will be an output which should get connected to Drip line.. It works if the temperature in the heater goes high... it should allows water to get out of the heater.. 

What he says is logical to me,, at the same time, the connection has been like this since I moved into this house for the last 6 months.. 
I guess this problem was created by me when I moved the thermostat to 
"HOT".. 

What do you guys think ? I can't say for sure who installed this machine earlier..


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## Jacques (Jul 9, 2008)

that is UNBELIVEABLE! just goes to show what happens when you try to solve problems on the internet with certain assumptions, ie; that it's installed properly. what in the world was the original installer thinking...you should send these pic's to Bradford White... glad you got it fixed properly.


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## cprao (Oct 26, 2009)

Jacques said:


> that is UNBELIVEABLE! just goes to show what happens when you try to solve problems on the internet with certain assumptions, ie; that it's installed properly. what in the world was the original installer thinking...you should send these pic's to Bradford White... glad you got it fixed properly.


So do you think, the current connection was right ?


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

spark plug said:


> I agree. But what you gained is a well rounded lay-person's knowledge of the workings of the hot water system. There may be some gas-flow issues (at the valve or the t. couple itself.) that are best left to an experienced service person.:thumbsup:!


Yeah, kinda' like Edison's lightbulb--we now know twenty-five ways not to fix a waterheater...plus no one died in the process! :thumbup:

Hey cprao, thanks for giving us the detailed followup . It's very helpful. Too many people ask questions, get advice, and then they are never heard from again. Good learning experience for everyone. :thumbsup:


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