# small garage stairs



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If it was mine I would more those stairs out of the way and Tap, Con a piece of 1 X 6 vinyl lumber up tight againt the threshold that's about 3" longer then where the trim needs to go around the door. That will support the treshold.
I would make the stairs out of concrete block mortered in place, not out of wood.

Your going to have to use low expanding foam around those door jambs, and add jamb extentions by the looks of it, before the casing goes on.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks for noticing

The door actually has an attachable outer metal frame with screw/nail holes that I took off so that I can put some foam in between. After I screw in the outer frame then I can put casing on top. 



I wanted to avoid the concrete step route because I wanted to build the stairs fast and cheap.

Do you think I could use concrete blocks as a base and then put wood on top of the blocks for treads?


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Gt,
I would build a set of stairs out of treated lumber. I normally use 2 x 12's for the stringers and treads. I also use 2 x 8's for risers. If you put risers in, the top riser can be tapconned right to your block. The riser will also be 1 1/2" thick and eliminate your trip hazard at the threshold. I also take into account most garage floors are sloped. When I measure my height, I measure from where the end of the stringer will hit, (about 24" from the block for two steps) and set a level under the threshold lip and measure to the top of it. Then you can check the same height measurement at the block and see what the difference is. Cut the bottom of your stringer to match the slope and the steps will sit nice and tight on the concrete.
Mike Hawkins


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks. 

I think I'll try building steps with PT lumber. 

I also had a question about how to level the stringers to the concrete floor, but it looks like you already cleared that up.


I'll take some measurements later today. 


By the way, I've seen some online calculators on the web that basically do all the math for stair construction. Have you ever used these before?


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

you can buy pre made stringers at lowes and home depot. You can use either a 2x12 for the treads or 2 -2x6 and they even have a treated 5/4"x12" tread with a bull nose on the front edge that is nice. It looks like you will have 2 steps so if you measure out away from the cement blocks about 23 " that will be where you need to check the levelness of the floor where the stringers will sit and cut any floor inaccuracies from the underside of the stringers... in that situation I add/nail 2 -2x6 underneath the stringers that look like upside down treads where the stringers sit on the floor. This allows you to attach the underside of the stringers to something and enables you to also spike the 2x6's to the cement floor as well with tap con screws and construction glue. At the top I would add a 2x to the block wall about 8 1/2" down from the top outside edge of the aluminum threshold that cuts to the size of the inside diameter between the outside stringers and the outside stringers once installed would cap the 2x, as it were. If you pull down 8 1/2" for the stringers your finished tread height would be 7" once the treads went on.

edit.. I did not notice the mention of the threshold overhang before. A 3/4" " stair riser " that sits down onto the 2x block that's used to hold up the stringers can be screwed to the block wall . The stair riser needs to rest against the underside of the threshold where it hangs out over the block wall. If the overhang is more than 3/4" the 1x is not thick enough, consider a 2x stair riser instead.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

First, I would do as Joe suggested, in regard to supporting the threshold. After that, you need to decide if you want one step or two; 8" is at the maximum of what I consider a comfortable rise, particularly in a location where you are most likely carrying groceries, etc. in and out, but reducing the rise obviously increases the run, which cuts into what is probably valuable floor space. Anyway, if you want two steps, I would do as firehawk suggested. If one step, I would forget the stringers, and build a simple four sided box, taper the bottom of it if necessary to follow the floor, tapcon the back of it to the blocks, and screw the tread to the top of it, thereby eliminating stringers from protruding beyond the riser.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You can get precut stringers & treads from places like Lowe's, Home Depot, Menard's.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> You can get precut stringers & treads from places like Lowe's, Home Depot, Menard's.


I don’t know how they even get away with selling those things, those stringers would never pass code.

All the ones I’ve seen are cut out of 2x10 leaving only about 3 ¼” - 3 ½” of meat left from the bottom of the stringer and the inside intersection of the tread and the riser. The minimum allowed is 5”.

Even that aside the odds that the total rise will work out and keep you within the maximum rise difference of 3/8” are slim at best.

So what happens when someone gets hurt on these non-permitted, non-compliant stairs you just installed??? 

It’s petty doubtful the friendly folks at the box store will be there to help then.


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

You have about a 20% chance of passing inspection with pre made stringers lol


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

kwikfishron, the ones I have are 2x12's. And as for passing code, they are no different than the ones that a reputable contractor would cut. The ones that I would not trust, are by someone who does not know how to take the time to do it correct, and want to cut corners.


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## puttster (Apr 30, 2012)

Guess I don't understand the problem. Why don't you stick a 1x8 up underneath the threshold? Fasten it to the stringers and the concrete.Treads, too. 
Puttster


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

wow,

I'd never thought my question would bring up such arguments.



My mind tells me to cut the stringers myself, but time tells me to buy pre cut.

So far I'm leaning towards cutting them myself.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Since you only have a few small steps you could always build box steps. The box steps are actually stronger than stringers and easier to make if you never have cut stringers before, they use a little more material though. 

The important thing is that all of the steps are the same height. This can “rarely” be achieved with store bought stringers.

What is the measurement from the concrete to the bottom of the threshold of the door? With that number it would be pretty easy to tell you if pre-cuts would work there or not.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

It is about 17.25 inches from the concrete to the threshold.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Based on personal experience, it is more difficult than you might think to cut perfect stringers. The idea of box steps is very appealing, if I had it to do over, that is what I would do with my deck steps. Simpson and others make very easy to use hangers to attach the treads to the box stringers, bombproof, code compliant, easy to install. There was a post suggesting concrete block steps, which might work very well in your case. Concrete block is very cost competitive, relatively easy to install, worth considering.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

Should I use tapcons or concrete bolts when I secure the top riser to the concrete block underneath the threshold?


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

Tapcons are fine.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

I haven't started building the stairs, but I will soon. 

I am assuming you all suggest tapcons for attaching the header to the wall because of the fact that the foundation is a concrete block construction. 


Don't you think those expansion bolts are stronger than tapcons?

I am pretty sure the concrete block wall was filled.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

gta said:


> It is about 17.25 inches from the concrete to the threshold.





I haven't started building the stairs said:


> 3- 5.5" or 6" (finished height) steps would fit your situation well and tap cons can be used for the riser if it sits down onto the top step but expansion bolts would be much stronger and recommended, especially for the structural part of the stair to block attachment.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

gta said:


> It is about 17.25 inches from the concrete to the threshold.





gta said:


> I haven't started building the stairs, but I will soon.
> 
> I am assuming you all suggest tapcons for attaching the header to the wall because of the fact that the foundation is a concrete block construction.
> 
> ...


3- 5.5" or 6" (finished height) steps would fit your situation well and tap cons can be used for the riser if it sits down onto the top step but expansion bolts would be much stronger and recommended, especially for the structural part of the stair to block attachment.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

for a 5-1/2" to 6" riser you should make the treads about 11-1/4" minimum. "Rule of Thumb" for stairs 1 riser + 1 tread = 17" to 18" (old builder's tale) the shallower the riser the wider the tread.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

2x12? In my addition, my stringers are 2x14....

Anyway....

Since we are talking only a few steps, why not platform? Instead of worrying about stringers...just build it all the way to the ground. with PT as the bottom plate.....

I personally think the 'sides' on those stairs make for a trip hazard. I would prefer an open tread.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

Well, looks like I'll be cutting box steps.


I cut my first stringer and everything was perfect. The measurements, the materials except for one thing. 

The freakin circular saw I had was not square even though I checked it with a square prior to use. 

Apparently something happened during the cut that caused it to go out of square. I'm not really sure. Maybe I pressed down on the work piece too hard?

Anyway the first stringer had beveled cuts along the rise and runs. Not acceptable imho. Good thing I only cut one stringer. 


The idea of a box stair is now very appealing. I will also be getting a new saw. Perhaps a makita not a cheapo skil.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

gta said:


> Well, looks like I'll be cutting box steps.
> 
> 
> I cut my first stringer and everything was perfect. The measurements, the materials except for one thing.
> ...



because you will be building landing type steps consider 16" steps and my info in the other post was incorrect, you will need 2 steps built not three. 2 - 6" finished height steps would divide evenly into your 18" height and as GBrackins mentioned, the larger tread steps will accommodate the smaller height risers and you will appreciate the extra tread when stepping down from the doorway onto them. The makita saw is a very balanced saw and I have liked using them , never owned one though.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

Im still in the process of cutting out my stairs, but I have a question. 


Even with the makita, the cut is not perfectly square. Any reasons why? 

It is better than the skil, but there is still a slight bevel. I don't plow through the material too fast and I use a straight edge guide. 

I don't know if this makes sense but, the two sides of the blade that are closest to the base plate are square, but when I make a cut, the top side of the cut is indeed square but the bottom cut has a slight bevel relative to the top cut. 


The blade could be flexing? I don't know.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

have your confirmed the 90-degree angle with a speed square?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Sounds like time for a new blade.


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

GBrackins said:


> have your confirmed the 90-degree angle with a speed square?


Yes. I placed a square up to the blade and it is 90 degrees. For some reason, during the cut, it goes out of square.


I used the blade that came with the saw. It is a makita 24T framing blade. It is kind of thin. Maybe that's the problem?


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

could be ..... 

I've seen guys pushing the blade into the wood (pushing down from the side while operating the saw) and the blade might bend a little. I usually use my square as a guide to run the saw against. other than that your guess is as good as mine .....


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## gta (Aug 6, 2012)

I finally got all the wood cut. Now I just have to assemble.


I think I have a reason why my saw wasn't cutting square. I forgot to take into account that the stock I was working with might not be square. Parts of the wood was square and other parts had slight bulges and whatnot and that threw off my cutting.


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