# Hang drywall vertical or horizontal



## joeg679

I'm not a contractor and I don't know if you are allowed to do this, by code, but I would hang it vertically. Like you said, you would get rid of that butt joint and if you are allowed to, you could put an extra 2x4 every 4 feet so the seams land on a stud. If you do it that way, you will only have to tape and mud the indented seams and you may be able to do that yourself and save a lot of money.


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## nap

it seems most of the pro's that post here like horizontal but to me, it seems vertical would be better. With horizontal, you have an unsupported joint all the way around the room where you stack the sheets. You also have butt joints without the reduced edge. If hanging vertical, as long as you use sheets tall enough, there are no unsupported joints and you can install it so there are no butt joints without a reduced edge.

I hate bulging joints and it seems there isn't a mudder left in the world that can keep away from them even when using the reduced edges. It is impossible to eliminate them if you don't have reduced edges.

but, hang on for some of the guys that actually do this for some more opinions.


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## RickyBobby

Vertical for sure. Keep it up off the ground at least 3/4".

There have been posts on here relating to eliminating butt joints but I do not feel they are applicable to your project. Stand 'em up and be done with it.


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## General

Drywall is stood up in commercial, railroaded in residential.


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## Anti-wingnut

General said:


> Drywall is stood up in commercial, railroaded in residential.


We got a winner!

To the OP. Stand them up, then all your joints are on the recessed edges


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## stoner529

I am all for vertical. as long as its nailed down correctly. I have no clue as to the real reason it is railroaded with the exception of you dont want a perfectly 8 ft vertical joint when you railroad it so they stack it. I am thinking they do it this way to reduce stress on the board if it is hung vertically but there is probably no real reason. vertical is faster make the board 6'11 1/4" and you will be fine if you said the height is 7' from ceiling. Good move on hiring the finisher to do that stuff.


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## rditz

*horizontal*

my brother-in-law is a boarder and when I asked him why he hangs it horizontally, he gave me the following reasons:

1) it creates a tighter fit to the ceiling boards (because you install the top board first) 
2) it is quicker to board and to mud
3) they use 8', 10' and 12' depending on room dimensions, so they can cover more area with less boards
4) railroad pattern is stronger and keeps everything tight (thus I think reduces some cracking.

if mudded well, you should not see any seems anyways. 

downfall is that you will need a helper to help with holding the sheets up while you screw them on.

just my $0.02.

rod


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## General

rditz hit the nail.

Standing boards up creates a LOT of seems.

Most typeical rooms you can buy the drywall to fit the length of the wall, 14', 16', etc. That means each wall only has 1 seem down the middle. Think about how many seems would be needed standing 4' wide drywall up. Even in a larger room like 24' you could use 2 X 12' boards and only have 2 seems on the whole wall.

In the end you have a strong system with less seems.


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## joeg679

General said:


> rditz hit the nail.
> 
> Standing boards up creates a LOT of seems.
> 
> Most typeical rooms you can buy the drywall to fit the length of the wall, 14', 16', etc. That means each wall only has 1 seem down the middle. Think about how many seems would be needed standing 4' wide drywall up. Even in a larger room like 24' you could use 2 X 12' boards and only have 2 seems on the whole wall.
> 
> In the end you have a strong system with less seems.


That sounds logical, but it just seems that it is so much easier to tape and mud a seam that is indented. But, if you are hiring a pro to do the taping and mudding, it doesn't matter. Maybe the OP should call the guy who is going to do the taping and mudding and see what he prefers as far as the hanging goes.


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## rditz

*mudding the seams*

I am by no means a pro at mudding, but what I have learned about the process is to do it in multi-thin coats. if you do that, the butt seams that are not indents will not be noticeable... you do have to own at least a 10" trowel to fan your joints out either side.

rod


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## nap

rditz said:


> if you do that, the butt seams that are not indents will not be noticeable... d


well, less noticeable. 

and that is very dependent on the lighting and wall finish. If using a gloss or semi gloss, those joints will be noticeable. Eggshell is a bit better. Natural lighting from a window as you look towards the window will make just about anything short of a perfectly flat wall look bad.


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## General

nap said:


> Natural lighting from a window as you look towards the window will make just about anything short of a perfectly flat wall look bad.


And that's why you don't want to stand up boards and have so many seems standing out at you in a house.


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## nap

General said:


> And that's why you don't want to stand up boards and have so many seems standing out at you in a house.


No, that is why you want those seams to be finished properly so they are not visible. If finished properly, they will not stand out. It is only the poor quality of finishers in todays industry that make such an installation look bad.


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## General

nap said:


> No, that is why you want those seams to be finished properly so they are not visible. If finished properly, they will not stand out. It is only the poor quality of finishers in todays industry that make such an installation look bad.


You'll argue anything, even when someone is agreeing with you...

Does this place have an ignore function?


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## nap

General said:


> You'll argue anything, even when someone is agreeing with you...
> 
> Does this place have an ignore function?


You don't have to respond.


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## redmanblackdog

Always go perpendicular to the framing member, with rare exceptions. If you were to stand them up, then every 4 feet your taper is going from floor to ceiling instead of working at a 4 foot level. If you take a straight 2x4 with some length to it, you can lay it on the middle of the wall and check your wall studs. It will tell you if your studs are in line. You can see if one stud sticks out farther than the others, then don't put your butt seam on that stud or you will have more problems. I would cut the 12 inches off of the top, then the taper is still workng at a 4 foot level. That piece then can be used for headers, usually, or legs (the narrow pieces on each side of a door) or for wraping windows or closets if you are doing that in drywall. But remember that if you cut it off of the top then you still have a tapered edge on the bottom, sometimes it will show if it is not mudded in (which is called killing the edge) or you don't use baseboard mouldings. Do not railroad your joints, stagger the joints. I keep my sheetrock about a 1/4 inch off of the floor. But 1/2 isn't bad. You should not let your sheetrock touch the floor if it is cement. It can draw moisture out of the cement if that is an issue.

I use 1 1/2 inch nails, that I tac it with if I don't have help. Then I use 1 1/4 inch drywall screws where ever I can, they work much better than nails. Make sure you don't have any clickers! Those are screws that will click as you run a drywall knife over the surface. All fasteners must be sunk in just enough to be covered with mud. Screw 12" patern in the field and every 6" on butt joints staggering. 8" to 12 " around top plate and base and corners.


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## Scuba_Dave

General said:


> You'll argue anything, even when someone is agreeing with you...
> 
> Does this place have an ignore function?


Yes,in the User CP it has an ignore feature
You will still see that "x" made a post
But will not see the wording in the posts
An option is there to then click & see the post
Most people can't resist & will still click to see what was said


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## masterofall

There is a way to reduce the bulging of butt joints in horizontal instalation. Have the joints meet between the studs and there is a manufactured backer that has raised edges so that when the joints are screwed to it they are sucked in to provide a recessed area to accomodate the mud and tape. A good taper can get the but joint on studs down to an 1/8" bulge fanned out over 28". Hard to see and usually unnoticeable on the base board.
Horizontal instalation with staggered butts can also help to straighten out slightly crowned studs. A vertical butt joint on a crowned stud is just plain ugly and can get worse if the lumber still has drying to do which usually emphasises the crown.
Put the cut piece on the bottom and snug it up with a pannel lifter. The untapered edge on the bottom will make baseboard instalation easier as they will sit vertical when secured to the wall. No openings on the bottom if one is using miter joints and no shims to plum them up for a tight appearance
Check out the Wallboarder's Buddy to makr all your ripping and length cuts easier. You may be able to use the scraps if there are any heat runs to box in. Pannel lifters are an inexpensive valuble asset that give a nice tight seam. Don't lift to hard as it may compress the gupsum core and pop the paper off (see later post) adding to your tapers frustration as removal of paper will be necessary for a solid joint


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## Dusty1

Always horizontal.
Consider a typical 8 foot high wall 12 feet wide. If you go vertically there will be 16' of taped joints (8'x2). If you go horizontally there will be 12'. Plus you won't have to bend don to tape the joint it's all at waist height.


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## MnDrywallRanger

redmanblackdog said:


> Always go perpendicular to the framing member, with rare exceptions. If you were to stand them up, then every 4 feet your taper is going from floor to ceiling instead of working at a 4 foot level. If you take a straight 2x4 with some length to it, you can lay it on the middle of the wall and check your wall studs. It will tell you if your studs are in line. You can see if one stud sticks out farther than the others, then don't put your butt seam on that stud or you will have more problems. I would cut the 12 inches off of the top, then the taper is still workng at a 4 foot level. That piece then can be used for headers, usually, or legs (the narrow pieces on each side of a door) or for wraping windows or closets if you are doing that in drywall. But remember that if you cut it off of the top then you still have a tapered edge on the bottom, sometimes it will show if it is not mudded in (which is called killing the edge) or you don't use baseboard mouldings. Do not railroad your joints, stagger the joints. I keep my sheetrock about a 1/4 inch off of the floor. But 1/2 isn't bad. You should not let your sheetrock touch the floor if it is cement. It can draw moisture out of the cement if that is an issue.
> 
> I use 1 1/2 inch nails, that I tac it with if I don't have help. Then I use 1 1/4 inch drywall screws where ever I can, they work much better than nails. Make sure you don't have any clickers! Those are screws that will click as you run a drywall knife over the surface. All fasteners must be sunk in just enough to be covered with mud. Screw 12" patern in the field and every 6" on butt joints staggering. 8" to 12 " around top plate and base and corners.


I agree 100%....with wood framing always hang the board horizontal, or perpendicular to and across the joists or studs.


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## Indiana Jeff

that is a long debated, hotly argued topic amongst tradesmen.
I know it's more industry standard to go horizontal, for a few reasons (some of which dont make much sense to me)
However, I always go vertically for a few reasons (which probably wont make much sense either)
1: I hate finishing butt joints. you get more of a hump in the wall from a butt joint than the occasional uneven stud, it seems to me
2: I hate traveling sideways with a knife full of mud. it falls all over the floor.
3: I dont understand how guys say it makes more seams going vertically... 
the butt joints will always add up to more seam footage and those butt joints take longer, I dont care how good you are with finishing.

So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ??? 
drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall? Jeeez, I just realized how poor of a product drywall actually is. It's sort of a terrible solution for a wall covering. So is paneling. My god, we're living in plastic covered houses, built with with glueboard subfloor, powderboard walls, chemicalboard decks, and vinyl (plastic) floors and siding, pvc (plastic) piping, and pressed plastic trim. 
sorry, got carried away there.


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## nap

> 1: I hate finishing butt joints. you get more of a hump in the wall from a butt joint than the occasional uneven stud, it seems to me


i agree



> 2: I hate traveling sideways with a knife full of mud. it falls all over the floor.


I agree



> 3: I dont understand how guys say it makes more seams going vertically...
> the butt joints will always add up to more seam footage and those butt joints take longer, I dont care how good you are with finishing.


The idea is you unless you are in a room over 12' in any dimension, you can run 1 sheet to cover the entire length of a wall by using 12' sheets. In a room larger than 12' in any one dimension, you add only the one vertical joint for walls up to 24' in length.

As an example, a wall 12' long, 8' high would require 40' of joint when laying horizontal.

If laying vertical, that number would increase by a huge percentage all the way up to 42'. Yes, a mere 2 feet difference in total joint length. I suppose if I was building a 100,000sq/ft building with 300 rooms it would be an important amount but in a few rooms, just not seeing the gain as a big deal.

To me, the difference is minimal but the greater detriment to the horizontal is an unsupported joint at 4' all the way around the room. I would much rather have every joint supported at a stud and that is why I prefer vertical.

The argument about the mudder not having to bend over with the single joint at 4' is ridiculous. If the guy can't bend over to run from ceiling to floor, maybe it's time to retire.

On top of that, laying horizontal is actually more work because you have to lift the upper piece. If you set the top piece first, it is a lot of weight because you hold it until you get it tacked in place. If you set the bottom piece first, you still have to lift the piece and set it on top of the lower piece.




> So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???


 sheet rock does add a structural element to the wall. By tying more studs together with one contiguous piece, it does add rigidity to those studs tied together as one unit. I give on that one argument.



> drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall? Jeeez, I just realized how poor of a product drywall actually is. It's sort of a terrible solution for a wall covering. So is paneling. My god, we're living in plastic covered houses, built with with glueboard subfloor, powderboard walls, chemicalboard decks, and vinyl (plastic) floors and siding, pvc (plastic) piping, and pressed plastic trim.
> sorry, got carried away there.


the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.


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## Indiana Jeff

last job I was on, the ceiling was 8'6, and the wall was 14' long.
their door and floorplan didnt allow for 10' or 12' sheets to be carried in
My customer (oh jeez, a real treat to deal with) was "concerned" that we were hanging vertically, and said "I've only seen it done the other way"

that's what brought me to this topic, I can see the advantages if the wall is exactly 8x12, but how so many people think horizontal is the only right way is beyond me.... of course, one of my main trades is tile, so I deal with globs of drywall mud dried on the floor, and humps in walls are a bigger deal to me than a painter.


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## Indiana Jeff

hey thanks Nap, I didnt think anyone would actually agree with me, and I hated to think I was the only one who saw those downfalls


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## Willie T

Are you guys EVER going to finally learn that there is now no longer any reason to have to hassle with butt joint humps ever again?

Good grief, I've preached BUTTBOARDS till I'm blue in the face, but only a small handful of people seem sharp enough to catch on. :wink:


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## nap

Willie T said:


> Are you guys EVER going to finally learn that there is now no longer any reason to have to hassle with butt joint humps ever again?
> 
> Good grief, I've preached BUTTBOARDS till I'm blue in the face, but only a small handful of people seem sharp enough to catch on. :wink:


there is also a tool to crunch the edge somehow as well. Never used it because I don't do much rock. It's easier to just stand it up and with my old back, it's less strain on my back to stand it as well.

but there is still the problem of unsupported joints all around the room though with a horizontal application.


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## Willie T

Anyone want to hear what I consider one of the most important reasons for hanging boards horizontally? Of course this only matters in homes that HAVE to be as close to perfect as possible.

It is simply to give you a good, long clean ceiling-to-wall intersection line...... and you do it all with that one top piece of board edge.
No good hanger will fasten up close to the very edges of a ceiling lid. That last portion is left 'floating' so that neither "truss uplift" nor uneven top plates (for joists) will contribute to ruining the final, clean wall-to-ceiling intersection.

The top wall board lifts and supports the ceiling pieces for the full span of its 12' length as you install it.... straight and cleanly. It gives you a line that will never betray you with a roller coaster of shadow dips and rises.

Trying to do that with a bunch of individual vertical butt ends is one tough job. Oh, it CAN be done, but it will have you pulling your hair out before you finally get all of them to support the ceiling in a perfectly straight intersection line.

And heaven help you if your vertical boards aren't perfectly plumb! The 4' end will support the ceiling lid only on one corner if that vertical board is out of plumb even a sixteenth in a level length.

Ever seen, or worse yet, tried to install crown molding on a ceiling that undulates up and down for a nice long length like, say... 20 or thirty feet? It looks awful. Hanging horizontally makes keeping that ceiling line straight SO much easier because you usually only have one joint to have to match up there at the ceiling.... if any. And that is very easily done by simply lining up the bottom edges of those two top boards.

BTW, there is an easy way to not only support that top piece while screwing it, but also for getting it adjusted 'just right' for fastening. And this is not a mechanical crank lift. And one man can do it all by himself.

(I show this in the following post.)

I WILL admit that you do still have to lift that top board up four feet. I haven't yet figured out how to get around that without a lift.


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## Willie T

Just for grins, here is the simple "support/adjuster" setup.

Simply measure down 48-1/2" and attach two 3' 2x4's as shown. Use one large screw as a pivot on each 2x4.

All you have to do is push down on the long ends of the 2x4's to raise the sheet of D/W to where you want it.

And, "Yes", this can be used with or without buttboards if you just insist on wanting to fight with that butt bulge.

("No", the buttboards do not go on till you get the sheet screwed into place..... They are just here to show you what a buttboard looks like.)


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## Gary in WA

"So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ??? 
drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall?" -------

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q..._w2ARf&sig=AHIEtbT3-jS_UFfs-iaiU1o3kfoOlKl-7Q

Gary


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## Willie T

I'd say that pretty well does an excellent job of answering that question.

Folks.......... if you ever want to know something like that, Gary is the 'go-to' man, hands down.


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## Indiana Jeff

wow, we actually live in an age where we rely on compressed white powder board with a paper facing for structural strength, huh? 
holy mother, no wonder when the wind blows houses collapse. 
hows the structural strength of drywall after paint? have they calculated the strength of paint applied vertically or horizontally? We should probably drywall horizontally, and paint vertically to lace it all together for maximum strength.


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## Willie T

Indiana Jeff said:


> wow, we actually live in an age where we rely on compressed white powder board with a paper facing for structural strength, huh?
> holy mother, no wonder when the wind blows houses collapse.
> hows the structural strength of drywall after paint? have they calculated the strength of paint applied vertically or horizontally? We should probably drywall horizontally, and paint vertically to lace it all together for maximum strength.


Frightening, isn't it? And all the more reason to research and consider the "Best Practices". Often what we think is no sweat, or no problem can, indeed, be of major importance.

On the painting...... Probably if you paint the first coat at a 45 degree slant in one direction, only, then let it dry..... and then apply the next coat on a 45 in the other direction, you will develop layered strength similar to a bias-ply tire. :wink: :huh:


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## MnDrywallRanger

GBR in WA said:


> "So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???
> drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall?" -------
> 
> 
> Gary


Take a long enough nail and put it through a piece of drywall. Then grab the nail with both hands and one hand on each side of the sheet. Now try and push the nail lengthwise across the "compressed powder"...now multiply that x10 (for each stud)...


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## michaelcherr

Why haven't drywall makers gotten smart and put tapered edges on all four sides?


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## MnDrywallRanger

michaelcherr said:


> Why haven't drywall makers gotten smart and put tapered edges on all four sides?


I'm guessing it has something to do with how they cut it into lengths, vs production costs, etc.?


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## nap

MnDrywallRanger said:


> I'm guessing it has something to do with how they cut it into lengths, vs production costs, etc.?


if one would watch the production of drywall, it is easy to be seen that it would be another process that does not lend itself well to the current manufacturing process. rock is made in continuous sheets and cut to length once semi-cured. Adding a reduced edge on the ends would be a really big change in their process.


Additionally, a reduced edge would generally cause more work for a finisher. Can you imagine having a reduced edge at the base of every board? what a hassle that would be. (hey, there's another reason to not lay horizontal) Of course, if the rock wasn't the exact correct height one would put the cut edge down and leave the reduced edge at the top for the joint with the ceiling

and speaking of such; I have seen where a reduced edge was a real PITA when using drop ceilings. If you use 4' wide sheets and want the ceiling @ 8', you have the reduced edge to deal with.


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## Willie T

nap said:


> if one would watch the production of drywall, it is easy to be seen that it would be another process that does not lend itself well to the current manufacturing process. rock is made in continuous sheets and cut to length once semi-cured. Adding a reduced edge on the ends would be a really big change in their process.
> 
> 
> Additionally, a reduced edge would generally cause more work for a finisher. Can you imagine having a reduced edge at the base of every board? what a hassle that would be. (hey, there's another reason to not lay horizontal) Of course, if the rock wasn't the exact correct height one would put the cut edge down and leave the reduced edge at the top for the joint with the ceiling
> 
> and speaking of such*; I have seen where a reduced edge was a real PITA when using drop ceilings. If you use 4' wide sheets and want the ceiling @ 8', you have the reduced edge to deal with*.


Au contraire, Mon Ami. The indentations along the top give you a convenient trough into which to bury the tape joint between the wall and the ceiling. It's even better if you can have a recessed edge on both the wall and the ceiling.... but you can't have everything.


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## nap

Willie T said:


> Au contraire, Mon Ami. The indentations along the top give you a convenient trough into which to bury the tape joint between the wall and the ceiling. It's even better if you can have a recessed edge on both the wall and the ceiling.... but you can't have everything.


Um, willie, please note that I was addressing a drop ceiling, as in T grid and lay in tiles.



> I have seen where a reduced edge was a real PITA *when using drop ceilings*


and I did mention putting the reduced edge to the ceiling where it would meet a hard deck.


> Of course, if the rock wasn't the exact correct height one would put the cut edge down and leave the reduced edge at the top for the joint with the ceiling


having a bad day or just wanting to pick on me?:wink:
.


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## Willie T

> Additionally, a reduced edge would generally cause more work for a finisher. Can you imagine having a reduced edge at the base of every board? what a hassle that would be. (hey, there's another reason to not lay horizontal) Of course, if the rock wasn't the exact correct height one would put the cut edge down and leave the reduced edge at the top for the joint with the ceiling


Sorry, I thought I read you were looking at making a "joint with the ceiling". Guess I misread it.


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## nap

Willie T said:


> Sorry, I thought I read you were looking at making a "joint with the ceiling". Guess I misread it.


I was in the part you just quoted and I said to put the reduced edge at the ceiling.



> Of course, if the rock wasn't the exact correct height one would put the cut edge down and leave the reduced edge at the top for the joint with the ceiling


maybe if I went a bit further: when using 2 sheets stacked, if one needs to cut a board to fit the wall height in a situation where there is a hard ceiling, the upper board would be installed with both reduced edges intact and the lower board would be set so the reduced edge meets the upper board and the cut edge would be at the floor (or actually; nearest the floor since one would leave a gap between the actual floor and the wallboard).

while I will admit I did not clearly state the situation involving the meeting of the two boards, one with both reduced edges intact and one with only one reduced edge intact, I felt the important part of the description, the meeting of the upper board and the ceiling, was adequately described so as one would understand the intent of the overall installation. 

Now, is that any clearer?

see what happens when I'm bored?


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## Willie T

Huh?


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## nap

Willie T said:


> Huh?



I am verbose when bored.

Come to think about it, I tend to be verbose most of the time.


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## Gary in WA

GBR in WA said:


> "So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???
> drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall?" -------
> 
> http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q..._w2ARf&sig=AHIEtbT3-jS_UFfs-iaiU1o3kfoOlKl-7Q
> 
> Mountain Drywall, please use the "quote" button when quoting someone, as I am now. That was not my question..... It was also a quote------ then the answer, which you left hanging like a new sheet without texture....LOL.
> 
> Drywall is very good in a fire, hence the requirement; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2003/crame03a.pdf
> 
> How about that.... my "quote" didn't work either!
> 
> Gary


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## nap

GBR in WA said:


> How about that.... my "quote" didn't work either!
> 
> Gary


I hate when that happens. Must be operator error.


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## Willie T

nap said:


> I hate when that happens. Must be operator error.


Mine's working. Looks like Gary's is dropping the quote close.


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## chrisBC

drywall does serve a structural purpose with wood frame construction, that's why it's supposed to be hung perpendicular to framing members, staggered like sheathing or masonry, etc.


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## lrobertstoner

the reason we hang against the studs rather than standing the sheet up is so you can find your studs easily if you finisher is getting paid by the board you budget will suffer the standing way the finishers eyes light up when you say stand up if the finisher is worth ant thing you will never see the butts and you can buy custom cut boards if this still worries you about butt joints have you ever went into a commercial building and see a wall wave at you or role or see tape joints thru the paint there is maney reasons to lay it down and remeber you are takeing something already flat and adding mudd and tape to it it is no longer flat it is an opticle illusion your nails angels bead flats and butts are all uneven after tape is applied dont buy into a flat ideal lay it down and your finsher will do the majic if he is good if not it doesnt matter how ya hang it will still be bad:whistling2:


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## Jay 78

lrobertstoner said:


> The reason we hang against the studs, rather than standing the sheet up, is so you can find your studs easily. If your finisher is getting paid by the board, your budget will suffer. The standing way, the finishers eyes light up when you say "stand up". If the finisher is worth anything, you will never see the butts and you can buy custom cut boards if you're worried about butt joints. Have you ever went into a commercial building and seen a wall wave, roll, or show tape joints through the paint? There are many reasons to lay it down. Remember, you are taking something already flat and adding mud and tape to it; it is no longer flat, it is an optical illusion. Your nails, angels bead, flats, and butts are all uneven after tape is applied. Don't buy into a flat ideal - lay it down and your finisher will do the magic if he is good. If not, it doesn't matter how you hang it, it will still be bad.:whistling2:


Fixed, I think....


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## lrobertstoner

:thumbsup:


nap said:


> i agree
> 
> I agree
> 
> The idea is you unless you are in a room over 12' in any dimension, you can run 1 sheet to cover the entire length of a wall by using 12' sheets. In a room larger than 12' in any one dimension, you add only the one vertical joint for walls up to 24' in length.
> 
> As an example, a wall 12' long, 8' high would require 40' of joint when laying horizontal.
> 
> If laying vertical, that number would increase by a huge percentage all the way up to 42'. Yes, a mere 2 feet difference in total joint length. I suppose if I was building a 100,000sq/ft building with 300 rooms it would be an important amount but in a few rooms, just not seeing the gain as a big deal.
> 
> To me, the difference is minimal but the greater detriment to the horizontal is an unsupported joint at 4' all the way around the room. I would much rather have every joint supported at a stud and that is why I prefer vertical.
> 
> The argument about the mudder not having to bend over with the single joint at 4' is ridiculous. If the guy can't bend over to run from ceiling to floor, maybe it's time to retire.
> 
> On top of that, laying horizontal is actually more work because you have to lift the upper piece. If you set the top piece first, it is a lot of weight because you hold it until you get it tacked in place. If you set the bottom piece first, you still have to lift the piece and set it on top of the lower piece.
> 
> 
> sheet rock does add a structural element to the wall. By tying more studs together with one contiguous piece, it does add rigidity to those studs tied together as one unit. I give on that one argument.
> 
> the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.


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## lrobertstoner

*stand up or lay it down*

just do yourself a favor and go look at some coomercial building .
you will find every joint if it was stood up ,the way you finish a butt joint is as follows.
step 1 buy usg green lid mud 
step 2 buy gympsum paper tape 
step 3 make sure you have a tater masher or large drill 1/2 " or better and padel mixer
step 4 take your drywall pan dip it into water buckett fill 1/8th of pan with water.
step 5 take 5" knife and cut around the inner sides of buckett getting any dry mud away from sides
step 6 put water around the cut out sides and on top of middle 
step 7 insert mixing device and mix 
step 8 check cosistency off mud to desired thickness
i prefer it to be as thick as cake iceing 
step 9 put mud in pan and grab youre tape
step 10 useing youre %" knife scoop out about half of the blade length ways coverd lightly cut acess mud off
step 11 apply mud in a forty five degree angel to wall , aplly pressure until mud starts moving agaisnt wall, then start pulling mud across the joint , be sure you keep the consistent
step elevn continue step 10 until hole joint is coverd with a smooth coat of mud
step 12 place tape over the seam makeing sure to center tape
step step 13 take a broad knife ( i prefer a 8") and wipe your tape down make sure you clean out any left over mud at both ends of joint

step 13 wait till dry
step 14 get you some all pupose mud blue lid if you are useing usg
step 15 mix this mud up do not add water this time but do all other steps to mixing the mud i layed out on the tape coat
step 16 this mud shoul be as thick as peanutt butter 
 fill pan up useing you 5" knife fill pan 
step 17 take ten 10 knife (i like aimes knifes either finish of blade is fine) apply mud to straight edge cut acess and apply to joint covering only half of tape 
step 18 repeat 17 to other side of tape ( this should make this joint around 20" wide
step 19 take 5" knife and place at top of joint in center at a 78 degree angle applt a small amount of pressure and pull all the way to the flat joint ( always pull mud to the flat joint in as fluid of a motion as possible)

step 20 (this should show you the center tape and depending on how flat of joint show you how much mud is needed on each side of tape)
take 10' knife and cut far side off mud down (edge of mud farthest away from the center of tape)
step 21 lay 10" knife in a 45 degree angle and addppresure pull like you would a flat
step 22 do outher side the same way 
step 23 let dry
step 24 get 12" knife and repeat the same steps as prior usieng your 5" to cut the center and thin your mud up to the consistencey of pudding 


if you follow these instructions and scrape your joint between each app the more experienced will find it the best way to do a butt and hide it i have taught around 18 people to finish drywall professionaly this is experience talking:yes:


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## lrobertstoner

michaelcherr said:


> Why haven't drywall makers gotten smart and put tapered edges on all four sides?


 if you look at your dry wall the but cut is perfect and flat if your sheet rock is hung correctly they fit together smooth most people hang and forgett about thier factory edge and place a factory beside a cut edge this will throw of your butt everytime:thumbsup:


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## beerdog

Ijust read through this interesting post. Here are my worthless conclusions.

1) The pro drywallers pretty much all say to hang horizontally for a multitude of reasons. All say butt joints are not an issue when you know what you are doing. Backer boards help. 

2) The weekenders mostly say vertical, but for poor reasons. Mostly because they can't do a proper butt joint or drop the mudd all over the place.

I have done a little drywalling and yes... butt joints are tough. But I am no pro. I recently had my garage done and these guys taped it in like 1-2 hours per sesion. The butt joints were tapered out 3 feet wide. Practically not a single drop of mud dropped on the floor. The butt joints were practically flat and were not noticeable at all after painting. 

My conclusin is I will go with the pro advice since that is all they do...all day....every day. Besides, every book on drywalling says horizaontal for all the same reasons noted in this thread.


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## lrobertstoner

i hope that all the pros have given you your answere.
there are maney great arguements about this subject and suggestions 
dont let the butt joint scare you look at my post on running one and you will be fine if this is a crucial gotta be right job 
do yourself a favor and creat a job to youre local drywall company:yes:


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## nap

I don't care what any of you say; a butt joint is noticeable and if running drop ceiling, rigid kick moulding or crown moulding, it looks terrible because of the bulge.

and feathering it out 3 feet? how ridiculous. You might as well just used skim coat plaster at that point. It would have been faster since it is just one coat and when the plasterer walks away after the first coat, it's done.

I still argue a unsupported joint at ~4' all the way around the room is just a crack waiting to happen, especially in a garage. 

but, to each their own. You guys can do it however you want. The last decent sized job I was on (+800,000 sq ft building), all the rock was set vertical. 

Oh, and if you have to deal with fire codes, you really want to check which way you need to install the board.


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