# What do I cut this metal pipe with?



## mr_trotta (Jun 5, 2006)

I have to cut the metal part of this pipe quite low to the foundation. The PVC above it is 1 1/2", so the metal pipe appears to be just a tad smaller. What should I use to cut it?


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## Rehabber (Dec 29, 2005)

If you need to cut it flush with the floor, try a sawzall with a good metal blade. Use a lower speed on the sawzall or you will overheat the blade.


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## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

Why do you need to cut it off? How are you going to connect anything to it if you cut it off flush?
It looks like threaded galvanized that probably can just be unscrewed out of a fitting below floor level.
Have you thought of just chipping some of the cement out first to see?
Mike


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Those are the same question I would have about this pipe, what is it to and are you still needing it?


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## mr_trotta (Jun 5, 2006)

It's a LONG STORY, and I even asked advice of my Uncle who works in construction. The full details of the problem including pictures are here. After reading the whole thing, just know that I am now contemplating switching to 3" PVC.

Basically, I won't be cutting it flush, but a few inches above the foundation. The pipe is on the side of kitchen opposite the sink and main drain. The metal pipe ends up going underneith the tile in the kitchen. The PVC that connects above it at the 'T' joint goes to the laundry room, except the pipe is 4 feet long and perfectly horizontal. I'm trying to give it some pitch, but I've only given it a few inches. I'm doing this because when the washer pumps out the water, it starts to back up because the pipes cannot handle the brand new washer pumping water out so fast. If I cut the metal pipe, and then add a 'Y" joint, I can give it some pitch and hopefully the washer won't back up as much. 

Oh, and I plan on connecting the 'Y' joint to the metal piece with a rubber adapter (flexible coupling).

My uncle recommended cutting the metal pipe with a "chain cutter" Is he thinking of something like this:








It could be a tight fit because of the pipe's proximity to the wall.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Use a sawsall to cut the pipe, if thats galvinized steel pipe, the snap cutter won't cut it. Using a fernco will do just fine when reconnecting it, use drainage fitting for all new fitting.

Ron


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## PSZach (Jun 16, 2006)

I am guessing something like this is over kill hahaha.

But here is a Wheeler Rex 591-6 and a lot of other Pipe Cutters.


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

Are you sure that the Pipe - (especially the metal part) isn't simply clogged ? I've seen some that had a build up in them. I'll guess you'll find out when you cut the pipe.


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## mr_trotta (Jun 5, 2006)

It could be clogged, but I have no way of knowing until I cut it. My plan is to widen the PVC pipe from 1 1/2" to 3", give it a larger pitch, and before I apply the adhesive, I'll dump a bottle of drain unclogger down the metal pipe, and hopefully my problem will be solved.


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## johnlvs2run (Mar 8, 2006)

mr_trotta said:


> The PVC that connects above it at the 'T' joint goes to the laundry room, except the pipe is 4 feet long and perfectly horizontal. I'm trying to give it some pitch, but I've only given it a few inches. I'm doing this because when the washer pumps out the water, it starts to back up because the pipes cannot handle the brand new washer pumping water out so fast.


The backing up sounds like it is caused by the room in the pipe not the angle.

Why not just switch to the 3" pvc first and see how that works.

You could raise that straight portion on the top a bit higher and maybe make that 3" pvc too.

Then you can leave the metal pipe as it is.

Also it might be possible to adjust the speed of the washer.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

johnlvs2run said:


> The backing up sounds like it is caused by the room in the pipe not the angle.
> 
> Why not just switch to the 3" pvc first and see how that works.
> 
> ...


I can't make heads or tells out of what your saying here.

As a plumber, increasing the pipe to 3" does not make the existing pipe drain faster, change the speed of the washer, please tell me how to make this happen.


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## johnlvs2run (Mar 8, 2006)

The water is coming from the washer, not the pipe. 

Increasing the diameter of the pipe, allows the WASHER to drain more quickly, and there is less pressure in the pipe to back up. 

This is easy to test. Get a 1 gallon container, an 8 ounce glass, and a 2 gallon container. Fill the 1 gallon bucket with water, then quickly pour all of the water into the 8 ounce glass. Notice that most all of the water overflows, on the counter, the floor, the sink, or from wherever it is sitting.

Now fill the 1 gallon container again, and quickly pour the water into the the larger 2 gallon container. Notice the huge difference here, as none of the water overflows. If you have a 1/4 inch hole in the bottom of each container the same thing would happen. The 8 ounce glass doesn't have time to drain and rapidly overflows. The 2 gallon container has plenty of time to drain and none of the water overflows.

The same thing happens if you have a very small pipe coming from the washer vs a much larger pipe that has room for the outflow of water.

As to changing the speed of the washer, you'd need to check with a washer repair person for that, or the manufacturer of the washer.


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## mr_trotta (Jun 5, 2006)

Perhaps these gifs will help. They are diagrams of what I have with all of the measurements and what I have and what I want to do. The only change is replacing the 48" 1.5" PVC pipe to a 3" PVC pipe and increasing the pitch.

Current:









Thinking of:









I'm wondering if the height of the black 1" tube is too high and so is the drop it makes in the white PVC initially. No? Make any difference?

johnlvs2run, I consulted GE (maker of the washer) and there is no way to slow down the water.


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## johnlvs2run (Mar 8, 2006)

Increasing the pitch should not make much difference, as it's the volume of pipe below the black hose that counts. I'd change as much of it to 3" as you can. If you changed the pitch then there'd be slightly *less* volume in the pipe.

The height of the black 1" tube looks fine, as the water is getting past that level okay. The drop is fine too.



mr_trotta said:


> johnlvs2run, I consulted GE (maker of the washer) and there is no way to slow down the water.


What if the outlet to the black hose was smaller. Then the water wouldn't be able to drain out as quickly. However it might just be forced through the smaller diameter more quickly, so the result would be the same. Personally I'd prefer to not mess with the washer.

I'd just try increasing the diameter of the pvc and see how that works. The water might not be overflowing by that much and the change in diameter could make all the difference. Plus that is easier to change than anything else.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Adding 3" pipe to that 1.5" pipe on the upper end of the line creates a reduction in the drain line, this is against all know codes, I'm sure of. 

This will cause a ledge it that point of reduction, this will cause build up of lent and what have you there, which leads to stoppages.

If you increase the pipe, you must increase the pipe the entire lenght, not just a section.

Best option is to replace the fittings to drainage fitting, and clean the line out to it's full bore, if replacement is not possible. the fittings you have there now are no where close to drainage fitting, they are what you call water fittings, and not allow to be used for DWV by code.


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## johnlvs2run (Mar 8, 2006)

Most of the pipe is already 2", which is already larger than 1.5". You wouldn't add 3" pipe, you'd replace with it. I suppose the rest of the 1.5" pvc could be replaced with 2", which would give it slightly more volume. 

Anyway replacing with 2 or 3" pvc is an easier solution than drilling a 3" wide hole through the concrete and to the drain line outside.

If there were tapered fittings then that would get rid of any ridges or possible build up of lint. I wonder if lint, or dirt sludge etc, builds up in water pipes where they are reduced, coming into the house or going to the garden etc. I've never noticed that but guess it is possible.


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## mr_trotta (Jun 5, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Best option is to replace the fittings to drainage fitting, and clean the line out to it's full bore, if replacement is not possible. the fittings you have there now are no where close to drainage fitting, they are what you call water fittings, and not allow to be used for DWV by code.


Thanks for the advice Ron. I'm not familiar with terms from the field - could you dumb it down for dumb? Thanks to your tips, I gather that my plan 1) won't work and 2) will be a code violation. Both caught my attention. What do you recommend I do?

I already replaced the trap's 1 1/2" PVC with 2" PVC. Would changing that long 48" section to 2" PVC and increasing the pitch help at all? be ok for code?

I saw a product at Home Depot that fits on top of PVC and holds the black hose in place and not allowing any overflow. Wouldn't this be bad for the washer?

The full details including pictures of the plumbing are here: http://home.comcast.net/%7Etrottavids/drain/drain.htm


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

johnlvs2run said:


> Most of the pipe is already 2", which is already larger than 1.5". You wouldn't add 3" pipe, you'd replace with it. I suppose the rest of the 1.5" pvc could be replaced with 2", which would give it slightly more volume.
> 
> Anyway replacing with 2 or 3" pvc is an easier solution than drilling a 3" wide hole through the concrete and to the drain line outside.
> 
> If there were tapered fittings then that would get rid of any ridges or possible build up of lint. I wonder if lint, or dirt sludge etc, builds up in water pipes where they are reduced, coming into the house or going to the garden etc. I've never noticed that but guess it is possible.


If the pipe comming out if the ground is 1.5" then the the trap arm and trap should remain the same, if the pipe comming out of the ground is 2" the trap arm and trap should be 2". todays code requires all laundry drains to be 2", I've seen many 1.5" lines, with a good cleaning and proper fitting handle the new washers they have on the marlet today.


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## johnlvs2run (Mar 8, 2006)

You could also add a T (tilt the T to the right to envision) in the center where the U comes back up, where it heads back horizontally to the left. 

This would add length and volume to the pipe and allow more space for when the volume of water gets to be too much for the current diameters.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

mr_trotta said:


> Thanks for the advice Ron. I'm not familiar with terms from the field - could you dumb it down for dumb? Thanks to your tips, I gather that my plan 1) won't work and 2) will be a code violation. Both caught my attention. What do you recommend I do?
> 
> I already replaced the trap's 1 1/2" PVC with 2" PVC. Would changing that long 48" section to 2" PVC and increasing the pitch help at all? be ok for code?
> 
> ...


DWV means Drain Waste and Vent, these are tappered fittings this making the water flow it the direction intended.

Water fittings are for pressure water only, if you look at a 1.5 DWV San-Tee and then look and a Tee for water only fitting you will see what I mean. The tee will not have a flow direction, a san-tee will, the tee you have just before it goes into the floor is a water fitting, imagine this, as water rushes to the tee there now, and water hits this tee, the waste water at this point tries to go up the tee as well as down, this is a problem along, using a DWV San Tee at this point and cause the water to flow in the downward direction, and not so much up the pipe.

You know what I would do at this point, Instede of a tee at that point, why not use a wye there, this will make thing ever better, and you will still have a cleanout spot for use.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

mr_trotta said:


> I saw a product at Home Depot that fits on top of PVC and holds the black hose in place and not allowing any overflow. Wouldn't this be bad for the washer?


Not sure what the manufracture has to say about this device, but if you restrict the flow out of the waher, this I would think cause the washer pump to work harded and longer, this may or my not decrease life of the washer pump. If mine, I would not use this.


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