# Sub-panel for basement (Full Kitchen, bath, theater)



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Where are you located ?


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Kentucky


----------



## mferguson0414 (Jan 6, 2009)

Your basement alone is more than twice the size of my home in ft^2..wow! Good luck!


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If you are going to have a kitchen setup then it needs to be wired like a kitchen
(2) 20a counter top GFCI protected circuits
If the MW is built in it needs a dedicated circuit, if it draws a lot of juice & is counter top model its still a good idea

Bathroom requires a dedicated 20a outlet for lights & outlets
OR
the outlet circuit can be shared with another bathroom if bathroom outlets ONLY are on the circuit
Outlet circuits for bathrooms can only feed the bathroom

Light circuits I fill to Max allowed by code - 1800w for 15a, 2400w for 20a
If you do not know what bulbs you will be using many people opt for allowing 75-100w per fixture
If the lights will be on all at once & for a long duration some people do only fill the circuit to 80% of capacity

There is no restriction on the number of outlets per circuit
You need to figure the load (possible) & go from there
Sometimes just common sense...IE if yuou have a Plasma TV, stereo & game console etc that takes 1200w you might want a dedicated circuit for that area
Code requires an outlet every 12'...I do every 4-6'
I usually alternate outlets every 4-6' so they are on a seperate circuit

Code does indicate allowing 3w per sq ft 2100x3 = 6100w/2400w = Min 3 20a circuits

100a only requires #3 THHN wire, 2 hots & a neutral, green ground an be #6
I used conduit between my main & sub 3' away
Grounds & neutrals on seperate bars in the sub
Neutral bar isolated from the case - not bonded to the case


----------



## cgoll (Apr 23, 2008)

You mentioned a 40 amp range circuit. I'm assuming that is a full size double pole, yes? Why not use that space as the feed for your sub?

Your 34 circuits on a 30/40 panel makes me wonder if you'd add a half size tandem to feed your sub otherwise.


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Scuba_Dave - Thanks for all the info. I just went and bought my wire..10ft of #1 Aluminum four conductor cable, I wanted to make sure I had enough. How do you wire the GFCI's in the kitchen? 

cgoll - I am going to keep the double pole to run my range in the basement. I will use double breakers and move some things around to get two open spots to feed the sub.

Thanks


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Heavy loads like a 240v Stove they do recommend to run off of the Main panel whenever possible

I use a GFCI outlet

Line from breaker goes to Line side of GFCI
rest of the outlets for that circuit are connected off the Load side


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks once again SD. 

This is my first sub-panel wiring. How do I run the wires? I know the red and black will come from the 100 amp breaker but where do I put the white in the main and where do I put the red, white, and black in the sub. I have searched on line for a how-to, but haven't found anything with pics or a clear explanation.


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Note the Neutral bar in the sub-panel must not be bonded to the case
Make sure the neutral lug is rated for the wire size in both panels


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

What does bonded mean? Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. It's much appreciated.


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

In some (most) cases the nuetral & ground bars are connected together
The ground bar is bonded/grounded to the case
In some cases you need to remove the bar connecting the 2, in other cases you may need to buy a neutral bar setup that is insulated & does not touch themetal of the panel case

Notice hope the neutral bar is isolated from the case (#2)
While the ground bar is attached to the case (#3)


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

It looks like my neutral is on the plastic. I think my neutral is 2 and 3, why is the bar between the two? 1 is my ground right?


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The ground is between the two to tie them together
You only run the sub neutral to one bar
But circuit neutrals can go to either bar since they are tied together


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

So the neutrals aren't bonded, right?


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

OK - Missed that green screw the 1st time...sorry
THAT is what bonds the neutral bars to the case

It MUST be removed


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Great. Thank you for everything!!! One last question. Is there any advantage to run a main breaker on this panel?


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Cost when I bought mone was less for the panel with the main breaker
So my sub 3' to the left of the main panel has a main breaker

I prefer to have the main breaker in a sub
There is a rule for a structure that you have to be able to shut off power with 6 throws
Since your main is there you are all set


----------



## Abs777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Sorry, but not sure how to take that answer. Am I fine not having a main breaker in my sub?


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes - by Code not required for your installation


----------

