# certainteed cement siding cracking!



## VaViaCo (May 6, 2009)

We used this product 2 years ago on a storage building built on top of a dock that I know moves as the dock shifts in the wind.
It is not cracked.

Did the initial nailing cause the cracks? Maybe the painter hid some small cracks that have grown.

Otherwise it sounds like you have some major movements, possibly the framer cut some studs short and let it settle down later, or the foundation is sinking.

Door/window issues point to jacks under the headers left short and settling.

But any of this should cause cracks in the drywall inside before problems in the siding.

How is the drywall?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Where are you located?
How long between foundation being poured & construction starting?
Do you know if proper gapping was left in the sheathing?
Seems more of a settling problem
Was the area filled before foundation went in?


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

*answers to VaViaCo and ScubaDave*

Thanks guys for your replies, we are in Wichita, KS on a 5 acres. It's a viewout basement, but the hole was only about 2 feet deep, had to bring in a lot of dirt to get the grade. The roof pitch is 7/12 and the ceilings are 10 feet, the basement is 9 ft, combining all of this it's a tall house and it's very windy and exposed. Framing wasn't very good... when the siding was installed right after framing it started cracking within a week (around windows and doors in the back of house), I had a structural engineer out but he wasn't very helpful but he wasn't impressed with the framing.

He note that their were gaps between a lot of the headers and the studs, which we shimmed, (it surmised that the house walls was framed separately and then put together on site which is correct... the framers on site seemed inexperienced and had the mentality to make parts fit by more nails, lots of windows out of square, etc. the siding was re-installed and it still cracked but not as bad. But now almost a year later we still see an occasional new crack, but also on sides of house where there no windows or doors, a lot of the cracks do go thru a nail hole but not all

framing took about a month and the framing started within 2 weeks of the foundation

don't think initial nailing caused cracks (but cracks are now intersecting nails,) the installer thought the problem was the zip wall we used but I don't think so, it's really popular here, I think it's T&G so the spacing should be OK except where they cut pieces.

There are no drywall cracks (I did put OSB on the inside of the back of the house to add more stability, everyone thought it was overkill but I did it anyway, there are lots of windows along the back and it's perpendicular to the wind from the south.

another thing is the framers put NO bracing in originally, they came out later after I called them to put the bracing in... but again it was that great IMO so I researched and added more braces including lateral bracing to anchor the regular bracing and I also put in anti-sway braces, theres a lot of bracing but I wouldn't be surprised if the roof trusses aren't perfectly plumb. I also added huricane straps

this is complicated but that's what happens when you get the low buck framer, I've learned my lesson on that


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

*more info*

I just want to re-iterate that we have no drywall issues at all (at least not yet), drywall was done in November so it's been 6 months.

I don't think it's a settling issue, no cracks in basement walls or anything like that,

but if it's movement (either because of crappy framing such as gaps below headers or whatever or wind or not enough bracing) the drywall is not cracking so it can't be that much movement. the truss bracing in the attic exceeds what all the other builders are doing around here because I added extra.

If it's installation related then what did they do wrong? They left space around windows, nails were not ring shank (they were yellow coated) and they were not driven into the siding.

I'm going to submit a warranty claim with Certainteed, but I fully expect them to say it's installation or preparation


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Was the home sheathed on the exterior with 7/16" OSB or 15/32" plywood? Or did they install the fiber cement straight to the studs? If it is the latter you have one heck of a problem in my opinion. 

If your sheetrock were cracking I'd say the framer did a poor job, because sheetrock won't hide any movement. Since the sheetrock's in good shape I'd look really hard at the siding installation. 

It never hurts to put in a claim to the siding manufacturer. Just DON'T SIGN ANYTHING AT ALL without carefully reviewing all the fine print. They'll do anything they can to get out of the liability. Even if it is a manufacturing issue they probably won't cover installation labor, just material.


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

we used zip board which is 7/16" thick OSB with some water barrier on the panel, so the whole house was sheathed with 7/16" OSB plus we put 7/16 OSB on the inside on the back wall, which has most of the windows, the drywall was put right over the osb.

However, they did not overlap the wood floor trusses which I think would have been better.

One thing that they did was they built all of the walls in a facility and trucked them out and had a crew put it together, it's called panelization I think... which isn't necessarily bad if it's done right but I think they didn't do the best work on-site

Plus I can't see how they fastened the panels, and I can't remember either, but I know they missed a ton of studs

also the front of the house has a brick veneer

http://huberwood.com/main.aspx?pagename=zipsystemwalloverview


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

My home was sided with CertainTeed weather board fiber cement siding about two years ago and I've had problems from day one. Some boards de-laminated and took on the appearance of water saturated card board. Even though the CertainTeed info specifically states this will not happen, they wouldn't even talk with me about the problem. They asked me to fill out a warraty request form that required info that I don't even have. Now, I just started noticing cracked boards on he south side of our house. I've now asked my contractor to get more involved and help me file a warranty claim. We'll see where I get with this, but to date, I've had to pay for any repairs out of pocket. I was very excited to be getting my home re-sided with this siding, but now regret doing so...what a downer when these types of problems begin to surface. Especially when it's pretty much immediately after the installation. I have pictures of all defects if anyone would like to see hem


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I’d like to see them.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

*Pictures*



kwikfishron said:


> I’d like to see them.


Ok...will do. I'll dig them out. I had some Halloween stuff to do with the little ones today.


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

It's been about 18 months and the cracking has gotten a lot worse, pretty much every piece has at least one crack... it appears that the siding is contracting significantly which is causing the cracking. I suspect the siding was wet when it was installed. I can't find the installer now, he won't return calls... I'm just caulking all of the cracks, but it's getting ridiculous.:furious:


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

the contracting is significant and obvious, gaps are appearing at the ends and also between boards, they used those spacers (which they weren't supposed to use per certainteed) and there are even boards where it has contracted so much that there are gaps at the spacers between boards.


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

the installers seemed to do a very neat job, but it had been raining a lot and I think the siding must not have been dried out completely...these guys admitted that they hadn't worked with certainteed before, I suspect the Hardie product does not contract as much? I heard (but don't know if it's true, I suspect it is) certainteed cement siding contracts more because of the formulation. I've got pieces where siding is falling off because it is cracking at the nail holes on the ends and when the wind blows the corner falls off.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

wichitawings said:


> the contracting is significant and obvious, gaps are appearing at the ends and also between boards, they used those spacers (which they weren't supposed to use per certainteed) and there are even boards where it has contracted so much that there are gaps at the spacers between boards.


Has CertainTeed worked with you at all? Have they sent anyone out to look at the problem? I've had other problems, but have just recently started noticing the cracks. I suspect this is only the beginning. Caulking them all probably wouldn't look very good and would be a nightmare to maintain.


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## wichitawings (May 26, 2009)

we filed a warranty claim, you can goto their website and print off the form and mail it in with pictures....at that time we had about 15 boards that had cracked and we assumed it was done (it had been about 6 months)...they provided 15 pieces of trim plus $500 to replace those pieces, which was based on a standard amount per 100 sq ft of siding, problem is was the pieces were interspersed, the cheapest bid we got to replace all of the pieces of $1200, so I just caulked the siding, but more cracks keep appearing!!! I wonder if your siding was wet when it was installed?


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

wichitawings said:


> we filed a warranty claim, you can goto their website and print off the form and mail it in with pictures....at that time we had about 15 boards that had cracked and we assumed it was done (it had been about 6 months)...they provided 15 pieces of trim plus $500 to replace those pieces, which was based on a standard amount per 100 sq ft of siding, problem is was the pieces were interspersed, the cheapest bid we got to replace all of the pieces of $1200, so I just caulked the siding, but more cracks keep appearing!!! I wonder if your siding was wet when it was installed?


I don't think it was wet when it was installed. We had a pretty nice stretch of weather and the siding was covered with plastic in my driveway. My installer said they would help me with the warranty claim, but have also said they've never seen this happen. I have a 5 year warranty from them too (very big company in the area), so if the problem is determined to be an installation error, I think they'll back up their warranty.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I’ve heard of these issues before with Certainteed Fiber Cement but have yet to see any of it. If either of you could post some pictures I’d appreciate it.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> I’ve heard of these issues before with Certainteed Fiber Cement but have yet to see any of it. If either of you could post some pictures I’d appreciate it.


I will post them this evening. Even more so than the cracking, the board delamination is interesting and puzzled several installers I have shown it to. I kept a couple pieces as evidence.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Post at least one stand back picture of a wall and not all super close ups, Thanks.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

Attached are some pictures of the problems I've seen over the past two years. They include complete delamination of boards, splintering for no apparent reason (sometimes in the middle of the boards), cracking, splitting along the bottoms of boards, scaling, blistering right in the middle of boards and swelling above window flashing (note that the cut ends were finished, but the finish is scaling off due to board swell). All of these are things that are listed will not happen with CertainTeed fiber cement boards in their marketing materials. I'm filling out a warranty caim right now and am anxious to hear with the CertainTeed folks will have to say.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

This one shows a slose up of one of my cracked boards. This just recently appeared out of nowhere. My installer says they've never seen anything like any of these issues. They're a big company, have been around for a long time and do both large scale commercial and residential siding. I believe they'll stand behind me and help me fight should CertainTeed claim this is the result of an installation error and will stand behind me if it is an installation error. I just can't figure it out. The boards were pre-finished and installed per the manufacturers instructions??


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

Lastly, I should mention that my installer has already replaced a few boards free of charge to me. That's how I got the sample of one of the significantly delaminated boards. Some of the other boards literally just fell apart and peeled right off of my house like badly rotted wood. When the installer replaced the boards in April, I figured that would be the end of my problems. Just over the past coupe months, the other issues arose. I spoke to my installer again and its now time to get CertainTeed involved. My installer can't continue to absorb the cost of repairing these issues if they are in fact problems with the siding.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

The second picture says it all, Product Failure.

I’ve never used CertainTeed always Hardi. 15 or so years ago when Hardi came on the scene to replace LP as the new "builders siding" I was skeptical so I broke off a jagged piece and put it in a bucket of water for about six months. The results, nothing, it didn’t swell up or fall apart in any way. I thought, well they got that problem figured out. I can see now that all fiber cement siding is not created equal. 

Thanks for the pictures.


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## user93440 (Oct 31, 2010)

Oddly, I did the same water test with the CertainTeed fiber cement siding and it passed. I actually had it soak in a glass of water for close to a year (unfinished/unprimed and jagged on all four sides) and there was absolutely zero swelling, blistering or anything. I even froze it and thawed it a few times to see if the expansion/contraction of the water would cause an issue, and it did nothing. At that point, I felt very confident in the CertainTeed product. One local supplier told me that they have a sample of it that's been soaking in a closed glass container as a promotion in their show room and looks the same today as it did several years ago when they initially submerged it. I hope CertainTeed stands behind their product and honors their warranty. Because of the multiple product failures, I'd love to have it all removed and replaced with Hardi, but I don't see that happening. I suspect they'll replace the failed boards and this will be an ongoing battle for me. I do know a few good attorneys and won't hesitate to file suit if I see this going in a direction that I don't like.:furious:


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