# Issues with Roller Marks / Flashing on Walls



## Cblt2Lss (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm in the process of renovating a house. I have most of the drywall & mudding done and am now moving on to paint. Here's the rundown:

Wall 1: Living room accent wall
1 coat kilz original oil over original paint / drywall repairs
1 skim coat with all purpose joint compound
1 coat Sherwin Williams multipurpose latex primer
2 coats Behr Premium Plus Ultra, satin finish, color: dolphin fin

Wall(s) 2: Master Bedroom
1 coat kilz original oil over original paint / drywall repairs
1 skim coat with all purpose joint compound
1 coat Sherwin Williams multipurpose latex primer
3 coats Behr Premium Plus Ultra, satin finish, color: dolphin fin
3 coats Sherwin Williams Cashmere, Low luster (satin equivalent) finish, color: dolphin fin

All rolling was done with either a 3/8" or 1/2" Purdy White Dove roller cover

Basically the issue is that every coat of paint I roll on has visible roller marks after the paint is dry. In some areas its not a big deal, however there are other areas with natural lighting that look pretty bad when the sun shines. Originally I was thinking it was an issue with Behr paint so I switched to the Cashmere from Sherwin Williams but still ended up with marks so now I'm assuming its all in my technique. My rolling procedure is this:

1. Load the nap
2. Starting in the middle of the left hand side of the wall, spread the paint up and down one roller width
3. Reload the nap
4. Repeat step #2 but start about 1/2 roller width away from the wet paint (right side)
5. Roll back into the wet paint
6. Go back one roller width and lay the paint out using a downward stroke with no pressure
7. Repeat

I did a lot of reading, youtube videos & talking with the guys at my local SW and everyone seems to gravitate to this technique but I can't for the life of me get a decent  result. Even while the paint is still wet I see the marks from the roller after laying it out, which is crazy since the Cashmere is supposed to have superior leveling characteristics. My gut is telling me that the roller is too dry when laying out the paint but I can't seem to get enough paint on the roller without dunking it completely in the paint which brings its own set of problems. I've also tried the M or W method of rolling with no success.

So if anyone has some tips on how to get a better finish please let me know so I can get this project over with :yes:

I have some pictures but I'm getting a message when I add them that I need at least one post to attach links so I will add them to the next one.


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## Cblt2Lss (Mar 16, 2015)

Wall 1: Living Room Accent Wall Dry









Wall 2: Master Bedroom Wet









Wall 2 Master Bedroom Dry


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Cblt2LSs:

I think what's happening is that your paint is drying out too much before you roll the area next to it, and the result is that the roller is roughening the partially dried paint, creating those streaks or rough paint.

When I paint with a roller, I:

1. Load up my roller with paint
2. Start by painting a BIG "W" on the wall or ceiling.
3. Paint a BIG "M" over top of the W,
4. Hold the roller sleeve at an angle to the wall and get the wet paint off the ends of the roller sleeve (cuz when you load up your roller sleeve, you also immerse the ends of the roller sleeve in paint, and if you don't get that paint off the roller frame and sleeve ends, it'll leave paint ridges).
5. Now I roll up and down to finish the square I'm painting.
6. Then I move on to the next square by starting with another big "W".

Try doing that and see if it helps.

I use Pratt & Lambert Accolade Velvet on my ceilings and Accolade Satin on my walls. I use 3/8 inch nap Nour or Simms roller sleeves (IIRC).


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Sounds as simple as uneven paint application. Roller covers can make just as much of a difference as paint. By the best roller cover you can afford, I like the Purdy White Dove 3/8" nap. 
Just yesterday I was priming a room and thought I would try a contractors pack of roller covers from the big box store. First coat of primer, no big deal right. After half a wall I switched back to Purdy.
When rolling, listen to your roller. You can hear a different sound when you need more paint.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I also like Purdy roller covers but I haven't used 3/8 nap for years on walls.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

But you have to consider an inexperienced painter with a 1/2 in nap. Aside from looking like they just came home from the mud bog races, the 1/2 is less forgiving


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## Cblt2Lss (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone.



> But you have to consider an inexperienced painter with a 1/2 in nap. Aside from looking like they just came home from the mud bog races, the 1/2 is less forgiving


LOL I'm not that bad :laughing:

I've tried the Purdy 3/8" nap a couple times but didn't have much success, in fact I would say that the roller marks turned out a little worse. It also seemed like I constantly had to re-dip the roller. On the plus side it seemed to leave less stippling on the wall. 

The point ZTMAN makes about the sound of the roller is something I have noticed. Normally with the 1/2 nap I can hear it when spreading out the paint, but when I go back to layout the wall with a downward stroke I hear nothing. At this point the roller is usually pretty dry so maybe I should try re-dipping before the layout....although this seems to defeat the purpose of laying out.

I was looking at wall #2 yesterday and noticed that texture is pretty rough now. I think I may start over by skim coating, priming and then give repainting a try. I read a lot positive things about Zinsser's Gardz primer. Anyone know how it compares to the multi-purpose primer from Sherwin Williams?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

From your initial description it sounds like your doing everything right. The only thing I can think of application wise is that perhaps your moving a little too slowly. To be able to lay off like your doing it needs to be done pretty quickly or the paint starts to dry and ends up overworked. Or perhaps you need to load the roller more thoroughly. It should be almost dripping with paint. 

Barring those possibilities, while Cashmere is a great paint it doesn't have very good hold-out properties. In the age of paint&primer, Cashmere is one of the few high quality straight paints left out there. It requires a consistent, well sealed surface (primed) to perform to its fullest. One would think having been previously coated, even with Behr, that the wall would be well sealed but perhaps that's not the case. I've had trouble with Cashmere even over cheap primer. One house I had to prime twice with PVA to get the Cashmere to achieve an even sheen.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

CBLT, I was referring to myself with the mud bog comment. We are painting our whole house now. Changing dark colors to light. More work than I can do before spring hits so we have a pro painting the downstairs, lots of molding and high ceilings. I am banished to the upstairs. The pro is using SW Pro Classic and Super Paint. He says that sticks better. I am using Cashmere upstairs. All of the SW provides great results, but I am doing two coats on the walls and trim. I take my time with the prep and paint and budget a room a week. If I paint too long, I start getting sloppy. The good news is we should all get better the more we paint. I remember when we were showing the painter the downstairs he say my five pack of blue tape, and had to point out he doesnt have to use tape. I spared a piece to put over his mouth. Maybe some day I wont need tape, but not this year


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Try a microfiber cover.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

And ditch the $1.99 roller frame.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Cblt2Lss, Are you using a rolling tray? or a 5 gallon rolling grid?


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## Cblt2Lss (Mar 16, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> From your initial description it sounds like your doing everything right. The only thing I can think of application wise is that perhaps your moving a little too slowly. *To be able to lay off like your doing* it needs to be done pretty quickly or the paint starts to dry and ends up overworked. Or perhaps you need to load the roller more thoroughly. It should be almost dripping with paint.


Jmayspaint: How far back do you normally go when laying out? One, two, etc roller widths? I watched one video (here) where the guy never really went back over his wet paint, but also watched a video from a different guy (here) who went back over his paint quite a bit. Is your roller normally pretty wet when laying out or is it dry? Usually for me by the time I'm done spreading the paint out the roller is bone dry. When I go back and layout the roller is normally very quiet with none of the squishy paint roller sound.



ZTMAN said:


> CBLT, I was referring to myself with the mud bog comment. We are painting our whole house now. Changing dark colors to light. More work than I can do before spring hits so we have a pro painting the downstairs, lots of molding and high ceilings. I am banished to the upstairs. The pro is using SW Pro Classic and Super Paint. He says that sticks better. I am using Cashmere upstairs. All of the SW provides great results, but I am doing two coats on the walls and trim. I take my time with the prep and paint and budget a room a week. If I paint too long, I start getting sloppy. The good news is we should all get better the more we paint. I remember when we were showing the painter the downstairs he say my five pack of blue tape, and had to point out he doesnt have to use tape. I spared a piece to put over his mouth. Maybe some day I wont need tape, but not this year


ZTMAN: I feel your pain. I've been buying frog tap like its going out of style. Let my know how your paint job comes out.



klaatu said:


> Try a microfiber cover.


klaatu: I've never used microfiber but from what I'm reading they hold more paint than a traditional roller cover so it may be worth a shot. I'll have to pick one up next time I'm at SW


klaatu said:


> And ditch the $1.99 roller frame.


Did that a while ago. I'm using a purdy cageless roller frame now. The cheap one is only for skim coating now.



Sir MixAlot said:


> Cblt2Lss, Are you using a rolling tray? or a 5 gallon rolling grid?


Sir MixAlot: In the pictures I posted above I was using a rolling tray but back when I started this project I was buying Behr paint in 5 gallon buckets and using a grid. I can't say I noticed a difference in the appearance but the bucket with the grid was a little more convenient.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Cblt2Lss said:


> Sir MixAlot: In the pictures I posted above I was using a rolling tray but back when I started this project I was buying Behr paint in 5 gallon buckets and using a grid. I can't say I noticed a difference in the appearance but the bucket with the grid was a little more convenient.


The reason I asked, is because when using a pan it can be bent to the middle just enough to not load the nap with as much paint as the center part of the nap gets loaded with. Just a thought.

For the record, I rarely use a paint pan when rolling.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I find that, whatever technique and equipment is used, make your last roller passes towards the handle end of the roller. There will usually be slightly more pressure on that side because of the design of the roller, causing a little bit of squeeze out. As you roll your way towards that side you will be rolling out the line.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Sir MixAlot said:


> The reason I asked, is because when using a pan it can be bent to the middle just enough to not load the nap with as much paint as the center part of the nap gets loaded with. Just a thought.
> 
> For the record, I rarely use a paint pan when rolling.


 A very overlooked issue. Always buy quality trays, covers, , and brushes. You don't have to go top of the line, but it makes a huge difference. I would also add to check the bucket grid for excessive flex because I have seen some out there that are pretty floppy that could cause the same problem a cheap pan can.


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