# Window stool and framing



## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of trimming off a few Anderson double hung windows, and I'm tryinig to decide how I want to do it. I like the traditional stool and apron with jamb extensions, but when we framed the dormer walls, we did it out of 2x4's. So now, I have no space for any extensions, and I think the stool/apron method only is appropriate for windows with jamb extensions. I'm right in thinking this, right?

Anyway, we've pretty much made up our mind that we don't want a simple picture frame trim, so we're thinking now that we should box out the window wall (since it's a small wall, 35 inches wide) with some 2x material. This way we can have a regular stool with jamb extensions. We should have just framed the wall out of 2x6's but we didn't anticipate the window trim design.

I'm looking at the stool area of the window (I haven't done a stool before), and I see that on these Anderson windows, there's a fairly large space between the window rough framing and the dado (if that's the right term) for the window stool. I guess typically you have to shim this (or use a screw support that I've seen) to support the stool. In my case, should I just get the stool I plan to use and then run my 2x filler material right under there to provide a nice support?

I'm working a little backwards here, but maybe now, I can easily shim the stool. How does this sound? If any of you guys have any advice for me, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

Joe


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

My windows have stools without jam extensions. The stool is supposed to stick out in front of the trim. The interior window trim sits on the stool and then there is another piece of trim under the stool. I don't know how to direct you to a site but I am sure you could just type in " interior window trim with stool" or something similar and you should find sites that show this. good luck!


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Joe,
Go to Andersen's site. They should have drawings on how the trim is installed. Millwork shops usually have a stool made for Andersen windows that has a tongue on it to fit into the dado on the bottom edge of the window frame. The stool is supported by another piece of trim underneath it called an 'apron'. The apron is usually a piece of matching casing with the ends returned into the wall so they end right where the radius of the stool starts. If you find a drawing, you'll see what I mean.
Mike Hawkins


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I'm familiar with the stool and apron setup, I've just never built one. What I'm stuck on is whether the stool would look a little strange without having some depth to it, provided by extensions. I can't seem to find a picture online without the extensions.

Guest, how does it look on yours? Does it look a little narrow? Or do you have large trim and aprons to make up for it?

Joe


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

do you have anderson 200 or 400 series windows?

i used both on my house. trimming the 400 series was easier because home depot sells a window still that fits in the dado or rabit joint (forgot right terminology). Also, the 400 series double hungs i have didn't require extension jams with 2x4 construction.

the 200 series on the other hand were a little more difficult. I ordered the 200 windows with extension jams installed at the factory, but that only included the top and the sides. the bottom had no extension jam. I spent a lot of time shopping around for stool that would fit my 200 series window and I just couldn't find anything that had the proper depth because there was no bottom extension jam. I never found out if it was normal to only have jams on 3 sides. I ended up making my own stool using 1X3 poplar, ripping to the right size and then used a router to finish it off.

here is what the bottom of my 200 series window looked like after installation. you can see the extension jam and the space underneath it.

















Using the 1x3 poplar, I simply slid it under the bottom of the extension jam and butted it against the window. I found ripping the 1x3 down to 2-7/16" gave me the best overhang with the apron I was using. Since I didn't notch the stool to conform with the bottom of the window, I just made sure to nail the stool at the wall where it overhangs on either side and then down into the apron to secure it.

Here is the finished product. I used 3-1/2" trim and 3-1/4" apron from home depot.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Hey Moopey,
That turned out nice. That's what I was thinking. I just redid a sunroom last week for a customer with Andersen 200 series. They came with jambs all the way around installed at the factory. I bought some 1" thick bullnose molding from a local millshop that worked out nicely.
Mike Hawkins


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

firehawkmph said:


> Hey Moopey,
> That turned out nice. That's what I was thinking. I just redid a sunroom last week for a customer with Andersen 200 series. They came with jambs all the way around installed at the factory. I bought some 1" thick bullnose molding from a local millshop that worked out nicely.
> Mike Hawkins


Thanks. It took alot of trial and error to achieve the look I was going for. The stool wasn't anything fancy. Just a 10 degree angle with rounded edge. I made it to match the off the shelf stool that I used for the 400 series windows.

I'm curious as to why I only got extension jams on 3 sides. I ordered them from a local lumber company and simply stated that I wanted the jams installed at the factory (one less thing for me to do) they never asked if I wanted them on all sides or not. The thing that slowed me down, was every time I went to home depot to explain my dilemma, they either had no idea what I was talking about or they just handed me stool for a 400 series window. haha.


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi Moopey,

Thanks for the reply. That window came out really nice. I like the trim selection as well; I'll have to see if I can find something similar at Home Depot too.

Anyway, the windows I have are the 400 series, with 2x4 framing. So now I know I should probably be able to get the stool/sill at Home Depot like you did, which makes things easier. The only problem, like I mentioned, is my 2x4 wall. I plan on hanging blinds on these windows, for one thing, and I don't think they'll look good sticking out past the window. So, I'm thinking maybe I should just quickly build out the wall with some 2x material, and try to imitate a 2x6 wall. What do you think?

Moopey, do you have any pictures of the 400 series without jamb extensions? I'm curious to see how they look. I know it's easier to trim the window without them, but it might look nicer housing the blinds, etc. to have the extensions.

Joe


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

Joe, I understand what your saying about the blinds. The panels of the 400 series windows are more flush with the walls whereas the 200's are sunk in a bit allowing you to install the blinds actually within the window. 

I replaced a bow window with 3 400 series windows to update the house a bit. The wife wanted wood blinds and instead of getting a single large blind we opted for 3 seperate ones. I mounted them flush to the trim. The ends of the windows are covered by the curtains. The one thing I didn't like about getting the single blinds, is that they came with 3 separate valances to dress them up. I'd rather have one large valance so I've been working on trying to glue them together which is why there is no valance in the picture.

I wouldn't build out the wall. In my experience blinds are almost always mounted on the trim protruding from the wall. It all come together once curtains are up. 

Sorry for not rotating a couple of the pictures. Also, you'll notice this window has a different apron. It was the first window I trimmed out and I simply used the window as the stool. Shortly after I found the apron at home depot and really liked it. I was going to change the stool of the first window to match the others, but it's behind the couch all the time and is never seen so I said screw it. haha.

I hope this has help you out.


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## cumak (Apr 17, 2010)

Moopey - your window trim looks great. What did you use for the apron in your first picture (the blue room)? Is that a standard trim profile that HD sells, or did you piece it together? This winter I have to do the interior trim for a bunch of Andersen 400's that I just installed. I was going to use the colonial trim for everything, including the apron. Yours looks a lot nicer than what I had in mind.

Thanks,
Mark


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

cumak said:


> Moopey - your window trim looks great. What did you use for the apron in your first picture (the blue room)? Is that a standard trim profile that HD sells, or did you piece it together? This winter I have to do the interior trim for a bunch of Andersen 400's that I just installed. I was going to use the colonial trim for everything, including the apron. Yours looks a lot nicer than what I had in mind.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark


thanks cumak. The apron is a standard off the shelf piece. Home depot actually carries it in 2 or 3 different size heights.


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures, Moopey. I appreciate it.

Yeah, with the curtains covering the blinds, it's not a big deal. The only thing is I'm not sure if I'll be installing curtains, as these are only 30" (or 29 9/16, some size like that) dormer windows in a 35 1/2" dormer wall. There will only be at most an inch space around the trim itself.

So that's why I thought I might just build out the wall with 2x3, since they are just three small dormer walls.

Actually, it's what the customer--my father,:wink:--wants. So I may have to do it, whether I like it or not, haha. And that's not to mention that I've already drywalled the whole thing! Now he notices it. The only thing is, with a 3.5 framed wall (2x4), and .5 drywall, then a 2x material (1.5"), and then another piece of drywall, I'll be at the same dimensions as if I started with a 2x6 framing, which means I should be able to use an off-the-shelf 2x6 size stool. 

Joe


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

moopey said:


> I'm curious as to why I only got extension jams on 3 sides. I ordered them from a local lumber company and simply stated that I wanted the jams installed at the factory (one less thing for me to do) they never asked if I wanted them on all sides or not. The thing that slowed me down, was every time I went to home depot to explain my dilemma, they either had no idea what I was talking about or they just handed me stool for a 400 series window. haha.


Yeah Moop,
I haven't seen them come through like that. The double hungs always came with jamb extensions attached from the factory all the way around. The casements always came with the jamb extensions not installed but in a separate package.
Mike Hawkins


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi! Mine look to be about 2-1/2" or so. If you were gonna put window seats in the dormers later, you may like the jam extension look better because it will make for a wider stool, but it's only a preference thing. If you can find the site,"this old house" has a video of interior window trim with stool (no extensions) I just typed in "interior window trim with stool" and it brought it up. good luck!


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi Guest,

Yeah, I know the wider stools look nicer, that would always be my preference. But we've decided, I think, on sticking with the walls as is, and just going with a flush stool, which will still be 2-2.5 inches, depending on the casings we choose. Building out the walls wasn't a big deal, but one of the main reasons for doing so was to house more neatly the blinds. Originally I said we're not going to put curtains, but after thinking about it, we're going to put just the curtains, and not the blinds. 

Blinds are pretty common, so a regular plain curtain/drapery will be nice for a change. Hopefully it won't look too crowded in the dormer.


Anyway, that's where we're at right now. Thanks for the help guys.

Oh just one last thing, does it pay to make the stool myself, since it's going to be flush and all? And if so, what size/kind wood would you use?

Joe


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

I don't think they are very expensive. It's a lot of trouble to make them, 'cause usually they come with some sort of detail on the edge which looks nice. Just more work. Glad you have found a solution. good luck!


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

Joe1. said:


> Oh just one last thing, does it pay to make the stool myself, since it's going to be flush and all? And if so, what size/kind wood would you use?
> Joe


I'd say look for an off the shelf piece you like first. If you can't find one then make your own. To make your own you'll need some tools though. In making mine I use a table saw, miter saw, jig saw, and a router. It is possible to make my stool without a router. I only use it to round off an edge which I have done with a sander but the router gives a more even profile in less time. 

I know home depot carries stool specifically notched to fit the 400 series windows. You can also buy 400 series extensions jam witch would have the notch already done and then you could rip to width and route whatever profile you want.


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. I decided to buy a pre-made stool piece (9' long). It's a simple bull nose with a slight step at the bottom, so I can take a razer blade and cut the step and sand it to make the returns pretty easily. It's just a generic stool from a mill shop, so there's no notch to fit into the dado or anything.

The only thing is I'm not crazy about the thickness of it, it's a 5/8 piece. I figured this size would be okay, as my casings are only 3/4 thick at their ends and 2.5 inches wide (the dormers are pretty small, so there's not much width to deal with). Anyway, when I tried to put one up today, using some 2x4 blocks temporarily, I had trouble keeping the stool from getting out of alignment. It kept tilting forward on me. I noticed that the bottom of the stool was resting in the middle of the dado on the 400 series windows, rather than resting on both sides of it. In other words, I set the reveal to be 3/16", so with the 5/8 stool, I can't straddle the dado on top and bottom and get a nice platform to butt up against. Am I supposed to leave a larger reveal on the bottom?

Moopey, how did you deal with the reveal on the 400's? How much reveal did you leave on the stool to window frame? I wanted to keep it the same all the way around, but if I drop it lower, the stool will cover the dado evenly, which should be better for nailing to the window, etc. Is it customary to leave the reveal larger on the bottom with these 400 series-style frames?

Joe


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Moopey, looking again at your pictures, it looks like you did leave the reveal larger on the bottom. Is that the case? If so, is that the norm, or just personal preference?

Thanks,

Joe


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

My stool for the 400 series had the back notched to fit in the dado. Because of this, I didn't choose what size reveal I wanted on the bottom. I chose a smaller reveal on the other sides just to match my other windows. 

The nice thing about having the stool notched to fit in the dado is that it helps to keep the back aligned. To also aid in this, I usually install the stool and the apron at the same time. I first line up the stool and nail the wings on either side that over hang the wall. This keeps the stool from falling. I then position the apron and push it up underneath the stool with constant up pressure. Make sure the stool is where you want it and then put a couple nails in the apron. Once the apron is secure I nail the stool from the top down into apron. This usually secures the stool so if you were to pressure on the edge it shouldn't move.


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Yeah, the notch on the back must make it nicer to put in. But I called my local Home Depot, and the guy said they don't carry the made to fit sills anymore--whether he's correct or not, we just picked a generic up at our local mill shop.

I went with the 5/8 because the casings are only 2.5 inches wide, and the window and wall area itself is small. So I figured the 5/4 sill would be too thick. I don't know; I have it though now.

Anyway, Moopey, had you not gotten the stool you got, would you have simply matched the reveal to the side casings' reveal?

I've been going over this book online, and it shows (what seems to be) and 400 Anderson, and on the bottom it looks like he left a large reveal, almost 1/2 inch, and in the article itself he says he made the sill. Here's a link to the book: http://books.google.com/books?id=iE...6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=window head casing&f=false

The window picture I'm refering to is on page 71.

How I'm installing mine is the way that guy did it, with 2x4 blocks to hold it up, as I may nail one or two up into the casing from underneath first. Or I may screw it up to the side casing.

I've heard that many toe nail into the window frame itself, but that makes me a little nervous. Did you do that, or only down into the stool and through the horns on the sides?

Joe


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

I usually nail into the window. I try to avoid it if I can but sometimes its necessary. I usually use a shorter length nail when I do just to be safe.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi, just thought I would mention that I just use curtain valances only with my blinds, I don't use the side panels. The valances cover the hardware at the top. I just have a regular curtain rod installed across the top piece of window trim, when you put the valance on over the blinds, all you see are the thin sides of the blinds. The thicker bottom piece on the blinds rest right above the window stool and doesn't stick out because the stool extends out farther.


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## Joe1. (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi guys, 

Thanks for the replies. The window casings and stool/aprons are done. They came out pretty good. I had trouble keeping my stools dead flat, since I think the Anderson window frame is slightly angled (that guy in Home Depot who said they don't carry the premade stools better have been correct!). I was able to make them slightly straighter by cutting the bottom of the dado lip back a little, so they're flusher. I think this eased the angle, but the top area still had a slight angle.

I faced nailed upside down into the casings (a 6 and 4d nail on each side), toed four or so 4d nails into the window frame itself, and then I nailed a few 4d down into the apron. I used construction adhesive, plenty of it, on all the surfaces, so it is pretty sturdy feeling, even though with these windows the stool doesn't have much to rest on (my casing material not being very thick--customer's 1-minute decision). And with the angle of the stool, from being toe nailed into the slightly angled frame, there was a slight space between the stool and apron. So the glue helped make up for any of these little problems.

Anyway, maybe I'll get some pictures of the windows to show you guys.

Like I said the trim choice is not the best, and the stools should have been thicker (I put 5/8 bull-nosed), but it came out okay overall.

Now I'm onto the flooring.

Thanks again,

Joe


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

Good to hear everything worked out ok. i'd like to see some photos when you get them.

-Derek-


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