# Pulling large gauge wires through conduit bodies and conduit around garage door.



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Use individual conductors, they are easier to pull into conduit.


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

Must have less than 360 degrees of bends.


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## Caleb (Jan 31, 2012)

Just a question, why would it have to go over the garage door in the first place? Are you putting another panel in the garage? I would make it so right where it comes into the garage is where a sub panel would go, but again I am not sure what you are doing.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Main panel is in the garage and I need to get on the other side of the garage door so I can go outside and into the mobile home.

Yes that is what I am using individual conductors.

That seems really hard to get around that less than 360 degrees of bends. I need two 90 elbows in the ground and one to get under the mobile home and one to get up into the home. Plus there will have to be either two or three in the garage.

Standard mobile home feeder is actually 4/0-4/0-2/0-#4


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Main panel is in the garage and I need to get on the other side of the garage door so I can go outside and into the mobile home.
> 
> Yes that is what I am using individual conductors.
> 
> ...


Then put in a few lb's. Again #4 cu or al?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

AL sorry I should specify.

Do LB conduit bodies count towards the 360 degree bend rule.


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> AL sorry I should specify.
> 
> Do LB conduit bodies count towards the 360 degree bend rule.


 the lb's they will make the 360 rule start over.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Ok then I seem to be ok with that because I have three 90 elbows on one side of the two LB's and three on the other side. With two elbows between the LB's

I don't know why they consider the #4 enough but I am planning to use #2 do you think that is enough?


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Ok then I seem to be ok with that because I have three 90 elbows on one side of the two LB's and three on the other side. With two elbows between the LB's
> 
> I don't know why they consider the #4 enough but I am planning to use #2 do you think that is enough?


*edit


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Yes do you think I should go up to 4/0 neutral? And if so why?


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Yes do you think I should go up to 4/0 neutral? And if so why?


Just lookin at your previous posts Stubbie told you what you need, I'm not goin to argue with him.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Yes I remember his response was just willing to listen to other ideas and started this topic to make sure my idea of going above the door and using all those elbows would be ok. Just have to figure out about how I want to do the grounding. Thinking just a straight run of #6 or #4 from the sub panel to the two rods. Any ideas?


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Mobile homes do not require ground rods. You install them at the service/disconnecting means, not at the home.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Since I already have a bunch of rods in my garage. I may just drive a couple. Do I also need a bond to a water pipe and the mobile home frame?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

But that will be at a later time first I need to run the wire from the garage to the home so we can move in.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

rrolleston said:


> Main panel is in the garage and I need to get on the other side of the garage door so I can go outside and into the mobile home.
> 
> Yes that is what I am using individual conductors.
> 
> ...


You can have no more than 360 degrees between pulling points,with that big of wires id make my junction boxes closer together to make it an easier pull


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

What size junction box would work for wires this size?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

I was also thinking maybe a disconnect box outside the garage just before the wire and conduit goes into the ground. That would leave three elbows in the garage and four to the mobile home.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Caleb said:


> Just a question, why would it have to go over the garage door in the first place? Are you putting another panel in the garage? I would make it so right where it comes into the garage is where a sub panel would go, but again I am not sure what you are doing.


He has 200 amp service equipment in the garage and is using feed thru lugs in that panel to run a 200 amp aluminum feeder to a 200 amp panel in the mobile home.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> What size junction box would work for wires this size?


Big ones ...


How many 90 turns do you need to exit the garage and enter your trench on the horizontal. I'm visualizing 3 turns if you are coming out of the top of the service equipment. Do not use elbows and do not use LB's to make turns in a conduit run with this size wire. LB's have their place but that is another subject. Use conduit sweeps when turning 90. 

I didn't catch how far you have to go from panel in garage to the mobile home panel?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

It will be three to exit the garage four if I decide I would like to exit the garage toward the bottom instead of the top. About 20 feet to get outside of the garage. Then Two elbows in the trench and two more to get inside the home. Another 65 feet total to get to the new panel.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm surprised that no one has recommended a wire/cable puller.


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## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

I recommend a wire/cable puller.

In the professional realm, the puller is usually the cub (apprentice), or new-hire.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Usually me taping a fish tape or rope to the wire and me pulling the wire and the wife pushing and sometimes we switch back and fourth. Have never done a run this long with this size wires though.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> Usually me taping a fish tape or rope to the wire and me pulling the wire and the wife pushing and sometimes we switch back and fourth. Have never done a run this long with this size wires though.


Just make a good pulling head with your pull rope attached, Use some pulling lube. I can explain how to do that if you want. 

I'm not sure what Jasin was referring to by cable puller. But if he is talking about what one uses to pull the rope back with the wire attached .. those are not cheap. There are several resourceful ways to pull the the wire thru the conduit without breaking the bank.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

stubbie said:


> use conduit sweeps when turning 90.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

jlmran said:


> I recommend a wire/cable puller.
> .


I did not see that. My apologies.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know why the Op has some many bends, 90s, etc. ?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Can someone show me an example using a conduit sweep to exit a building looks like they will be really hard to use in tight areas.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

If you exit the building wall high above grade and run conduit down the outside wall to your trench a sweep will not work unless you use standoffs.

Is your plan to come down the outside wall ?


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Can someone show me an example using a conduit sweep to exit a building looks like they will be really hard to use in tight areas.


The pic I posted of sweeps are larger than you will be using, 3" conduit, 36" radius. The point that everyone is trying to make is to use gentle turns as it will be very difficult pulling large wire.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

I understand what everyone is trying to say but even a 24" radius coming out of my building would look terrible and be a trip hazard.

I exit the building with conduit and would have to sweep down 2 feet away from the garage before I can put in my expansion coupling.

My big concern is I have a walkway going between the home and garage. Not much room to work with. Only about three feet.

Would really like to exit the garage as close to grade level as I can and still be able to use my expansion coupling. Making it look a lot better. Trying to please the wife too and she will be helping.


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## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

jasin said:


> I did not see that. My apologies.


I did that AFTER your surprised response. No apology needed.


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## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> I understand what everyone is trying to say but even a 24" radius coming out of my building would look terrible and be a trip hazard.
> 
> I exit the building with conduit and would have to sweep down 2 feet away from the garage before I can put in my expansion coupling.
> 
> ...


Well, to avoid any confusion, a 24" radius sweep would be buried a little less than 24" deep so it would look like a piece of pipe coming out of the ground right up against the building.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

jlmran said:


> I did that AFTER your surprised response. No apology needed.


Ok. Cool


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

zappa said:


> Well, to avoid any confusion, a 24" radius sweep would be buried a little less than 24" deep so it would look like a piece of pipe coming out of the ground right up against the building.


Problem is getting inside the building cleanly. I can use those just about everywhere but not any way to use them to get into the garage I only have about a foot before the garage door after entering the garage.


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## Sammy 2 (Feb 10, 2011)

While on the subject of pulling 3 or 4 large service wires thru conduit, How tough is it to finalize the pull/push of the wire through an LB style fitting. . ( .so you can get the cover on  .


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

With 4/0-4/0-2/0-#2. I am not sure that is even possible.

I have heard of some pulling the wire through the conduit body. Not sure if that is allowed even though people get away with it.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

rrolleston said:


> With 4/0-4/0-2/0-#2. I am not sure that is even possible.
> 
> I have heard of some pulling the wire through the conduit body. Not sure if that is allowed even though people get away with it.


Sounds like a good way to skin some wires to me :huh:


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

plummen said:


> Sounds like a good way to skin some wires to me :huh:


Yeah I am leaning more towards large junction boxes where the wire goes into both buildings.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> Yeah I am leaning more towards large junction boxes where the wire goes into both buildings.


I your plan to come out the top of your panel sweep 90 over the garage door then sweep 90 down the the inside wall then turn 90 out the wall above grade then sweep 90 down into the trench then sweep 90 horizontal at the bottom of the trench? Sorta like this...


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Im thinking those bottem 2 sweeps going out bottem of garage are going to be a joy! :wink::laughing:


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

That was my plan but I was digging the trench today and looking at it and think it will be easier to continue over the garage door right outside of the garage then down eliminating two 90s.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> That was my plan but I was digging the trench today and looking at it and think it will be easier to continue over the garage door right outside of the garage then down eliminating two 90s.


I was hoping you would say that ... so you are changing to this


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Yes I was looking at it today and went through the path of the conduit and was like there is no way I can pull though all those 90s. Was lucky due to warm weather I was able to dig a trench about 30" deep today.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

If the slab was thin around the edge I would have a hole drilled and go right into the ground. But the garage has a really deep footing all the way around the slab.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Ok

I don't know if you have decided on conduit size. I'll have to do a conduit fill but from experience I would say you want 2 1/2 ". It is much easier to pull thru an LB using an LB roller. You can also upsize the LB using adapters. JB's IMO are not the way to go. It is easier to pull thru a LB in your situation going from outside to inside. I'll put an arrow on the last diagram and it also will facilitate an LB roller if you so choose. You can do it without it will just take more pulling effort. Generally speaking you have to pull the wire out of the LB then re-feed it ... so sort of a pull then feed.. pull then feed.. but I think you get the idea.

Something to think about is just direct bury in the horizontal part of the trench. Make sure the cable is rated for it. Then all you have to worry about is the conduit at the mobile home and the garage. You can lay the whole run out on the ground feed it into the conduit a little easier that way at each end. With a 30" trench your not likely to damage it from digging in the future.
Just an option.

The other thing that concerns me is gutter space in the garage panel in order to connect to the feed thru lugs.

Is the garage panel fed from top or bottom?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

What is a LB roller? That sounds like a decent option with 2-1/2 LBs

Panel is fed from the bottom and I have a use a meter socket hub to get into the top because it's an outdoor rated box.

I was planning on using 2". Would it be allowed to feed both ends into the garage have two five foot pieces of conduit on with all the couplings needed to join it and when I get towards the end just slide the both ends on the 90s holding up the conduit on each end would allow me to feed the rest of the wire through finally coupling it together in the middle. Don't have to be glued just there to cover wire. Or will that not be allowed.

Found it lb roller for 2' LB 80 bucks.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> What is a LB roller? That sounds like a decent option with 2-1/2 LBs
> 
> Panel is fed from the bottom and I have a use a meter socket hub to get into the top because it's an outdoor rated box.
> 
> ...


Yes 2" works. Here are 2 great places to make your calculations with internet sources.

http://www.jhlarson.com/ind_tables/ind_table.htm

http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/elcal.html

You can do whatever you want as for assembling the conduit... you will learn a lot that way ...  Just go easy on the glue and make sure it doesn't get all over the wire insulation as it will react with it.

You can up size the lb using adapters on the 2"


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Great info. You also said something about knowing a good way to attach pull rope to the wire. Can you give me any tips?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

I have made a cable puller with a piece of stiff wire wrapped around the cable then through my fish tape end then back wrapped around the cable again and twisting both ends together tucked inside and taped done right it squeezes the cable tighter when you pull.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

There is a couple well seasoned ways to build a pulling head they are not any big secret in the trade. Probably the best is to link you to some videos that will show how to do it ... If I try to explain it will be paragraphs long. The rest of what you need is the tape after you make the head (remember to stagger your wires). Use duct tape .. wrap the wire with one pass sticky side up in the direction of the pull then go back the other way sticky side down. This just cushions and protects the conduit. Don't skimp on the wire when your done pulling just cut the cables behind the tape. You can if you want install a bare solid 12 awg wire before you tape that runs the length of the wrap plus about 2 feet then use it by pulling it to cut the length of the tape for easier removal and it saves some wire that way


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAK0wq4agxM


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

rrolleston said:


> I have made a cable puller with a piece of stiff wire wrapped around the cable then through my fish tape end then back wrapped around the cable again and twisting both ends together tucked inside and taped done right it squeezes the cable tighter when you pull.


A fish tape will not pull the wire your using .....


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah I have a rope was just wondering what tricks you had. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I know I can fish 3 4/0 through about 50 fee and a couple bends. But going to use a really heavy rope for this.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Watch the video I posted for the pulling head and use some pulling lube. Don't let the dust settle once you add the lube to the wire it dries out pretty fast.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

You know, they do make direct burial 4/0.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

If there was not so much stuff in my way I would have loved to do dirrect burrial the whole lngth.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

rrolleston said:


> If there was not so much stuff in my way I would have loved to do dirrect burrial the whole lngth.


Where do you live, in a concrete jungle?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a cement patio and a paved driveway out front that I would rather not tear up and out back another patio and a gas line.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Have decided to do 2-1/2" schedule 40 for the whole length. Nothing is going to be where it could get hit when I am done. And the extra width should make my pull so much easier.


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

rrolleston said:


> I have a cement patio and a paved driveway out front that I would rather not tear up and out back another patio and a gas line.


You have no yard, grass, trees, etc. nothing?


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

yeah on the front and back but I would have to go all the way around everything or tear it up. Overhead was a thought too but really don't want to splice wires to do that.


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## Julius793 (Dec 13, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> yeah on the front and back but I would have to go all the way around everything or tear it up. Overhead was a thought too but really don't want to splice wires to do that.


If you don't mind the look run over head and then you crimp the wires


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## jasin (Jan 22, 2012)

rrolleston said:


> yeah on the front and back but I would have to go all the way around everything or tear it up. Overhead was a thought too but really don't want to splice wires to do that.


So you would of had to of gone around everything like a snake? Yeah, that's a bad idea. Best to keep lines as short and straight as possible.

There is no splicing if you get the correct lengths. Overhead is dangerous anyways. I am glad you went a different route.


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## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah I have been planning this for a while since our home was fed by some three wire URD that was ran improperly to the home and would really like it to be done properly.

And I like the industrial look of some nice conduit running into the home. If the wife don't like it showing around the home she can put flowers or bushes to cover it up.


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