# Hiding equipment for wall mount LCD



## themode

Hi, I will be mounting an LCD television on a wall. I can not place equipment behind the wall and I would like to not have any shelves either. The closest cabinet is at least 15 feet away (probably 20 to 25 feet of cables).

What options do I have to hide the equipment (HD Sat and HD DVD player only).

Thanks


----------



## perpetual98

Well, you've limited your options already. I assume that your concerned mainly with video feed right now and your audio is taken care of already? Or you're going to use the LCD audio?

Some more information on what you're specifically trying to accomplish might help. If you're going HDMI, you can go pretty long distances without dropoff. Monoprice.com has really good prices on HDMI cables.


----------



## steve1234

More details would help....but here's what I'm doing (assuming you have wall access):

I'm running smurf tube from the equipment location to a low voltage j-box mounted behind the tv. This will allow current cable feeding and future. Also run a piece of Cat5e cable for IR controls so you can mount a pickup near the tv to control the equipment in the remote cabinet.


----------



## themode

Hi, since this is not my primary television I will simply be using the LCD speakers for sound. What I'm understanding from the above replies is that I can place my equipement away from my television and still obtain a HD signal with HDMI cables. 

- Would that also be true for component cables? 
- Would sound be affected with running long RCA cables?
- What device would you recommend for use with the CAT5e cable for remote controls?
- (silly question coming) Is there any other way to hide the devices on a wall?

Thank-you for your replies.


----------



## perpetual98

There's plastic channels that you can run the wires in and paint them to match. I'm thinking that some other people would have more input on brands and stuff than I would. Long RCA cables should be ok for sound, but you'd probably want to upgrade to better ones than the thin dental-floss kind. I used to run fairly long RCA cables in my car when I was into car audio, so I'd run 20' cables from the dash around the edge of the car and into the trunk.


----------



## gregzoll

Rapidrun (http://www.rapidrun.com) for the video connections from the boxes to the TV, and use a RF or IR remote. You are talking about increasing your budget for a setup that is not very clearly seen, due to you also have to figure in Fire detection, cooling of the equipment, and the extras such as the Remote setup, and wiring for the equipment cabinet.


----------



## steve1234

http://www.hometech.com/learn/ir.html

info on IR systems


----------



## ktkelly

perpetual98 said:


> If you're going HDMI, you can go pretty long distances without dropoff.


Wrong. HDMI is very distance limited unless you use something like a Gefen HDMI extender.



> Monoprice.com has really good prices on HDMI cables.


Great prices for a lousy product. If you want *reliable* HDMI performance you want cables that are certified (Monoprice cables are not).



Rather than running cat5e for IR a good RF remote would be a great option. 

A URC RF20/MRF100B would probably get the job done in this case.


----------



## perpetual98

Spoken like a true shareholder for Monster Cables. 

_HDMI technology has been designed to use standard copper cable construction at long lengths. In order to allow cable manufacturers to improve their products through the use of new technologies, HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. As semiconductor technology improves, even longer stretches can be reached with fiber optic cables, and with active cable technologies such as amplifiers or repeaters._

While you can also argue that you need "certified" cables, I don't think paying more than $20 for a standard cable makes sense, unless you're talking about a lengthy cable run.


----------



## themode

Hi, very interesting information being provided. I thank you all. What concerns me is that the cables that are being suggested such as rapidrun and Gefen would cost more than 50% of my existing hardware. Has anyone tried running 20 to 25 feet using "uncertified" cables such as the ones from Monoprice?


----------



## jerryh3

ktkelly said:


> Wrong. HDMI is very distance limited unless you use something like a Gefen HDMI extender.
> 
> 
> 
> Great prices for a lousy product. If you want *reliable* HDMI performance you want cables that are certified (Monoprice cables are not).
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than running cat5e for IR a good RF remote would be a great option.
> 
> A URC RF20/MRF100B would probably get the job done in this case.


Certified by who/what?


----------



## ktkelly

jerryh3 said:


> Certified by who/what?


Without going into great detail I'm pasting a couple clips from "the" authority on HDMI cables replied to questions about Monoprice HDMI cables (in a training session for professional installers):


*Monoprice claims that they are HDMI certified (I once asked for their ATSC paper, never saw it).*

*I do know that the cost of the HDMI terminal license, transportation and port fees are about the same as the price that they the cables sell for.*

And this:

*"HDMI Spec 1.2a"*

*"HDMI Device 1.3 Compatible"*

*I guess it'll work with a 1.3 unit but won't pass anything higher than 1.2a. that's a big trade off for what? Maybe $200?*

The bottom line is that if you want reliability you do not buy based on price, but rather quality.

*And no, I do not sell Monster Cable. Nor do I own stock in said company.*


----------



## perpetual98

ktkelly said:


> The bottom line is that if you want reliability you do not buy based on price, but rather quality.


Words to live by on most things! I was just saying that there's plenty of people on avsforum.com that have monoprice cables and for the most part, I hear positive things about them. Like I mentioned before, if I was going to do a 20 foot plus run, I'd be more concerned about the quality. People will argue that since the signal is digital, either it'll work or it won't since it's either a 1 or a 0 being passed, but I don't exactly buy that theory either.


----------



## ktkelly

perpetual98 said:


> Words to live by on most things! I was just saying that there's plenty of people on avsforum.com that have monoprice cables and for the most part, I hear positive things about them.


Ah yes. AVS forums where all the DIY'ers proclaim their "in depth" knowledge of all things AV. Regardless of the fact that they are not now, nor have ever been, in the business on a professional level. 

Seeking good audio/video advice on AVS forums is akin to asking a plumber how to install your electrical wiring or a electrician how to install your plumbing.



> Like I mentioned before, if I was going to do a 20 foot plus run, I'd be more concerned about the quality. People will argue that since the signal is digital, either it'll work or it won't since it's either a 1 or a 0 being passed, but I don't exactly buy that theory either.


I like to explain it this way: 

Some of those 1's and 0's are wider than others (bandwith).....:laughing:


----------



## perpetual98

To each their own 

For what it's worth, here's the Monster Cable in 25'

25 ft. length - 7.62 m. $299.95 ea.


----------



## david81

hd satellite boxs will not put out any higher then 1080i. in that case u can use component cables for the hd sat box. if u cannot find component cables long enough u can run indivdual rg-6 cables to the length u need them. just put the compression ends on the cable, then the a/v adaptor plugs on the end of those and there u have it, component cables. since the hd dvd players puts out 1080p u will need a hdmi cable for that. (the rg-6 way should save u some money to)


----------



## renfrey

Wow.....quite the discussion. Everyone has valid points. HDMI is limited to its distance.....however.....HDMI cable is grossly overpriced.

The one thing that does catch my attention is the comment on DIY sites....i take offence to this. As a professional and DIYer I both advise and help on DIY forums. I find that DIYers many times take A LOT of time studying into things for the simple reason that they enjoy what they are studying. Many professionals do not neccessarily enjoy what they are doing, and thus won't pay much attention to their training. Plus, many professionals won't go into the depth of studying products and technology as some DIYers. Many of them just want to focus on the essentials to get the product sold and installed. Please keep in mind that I am saying many, not all. I for one love what I am doing, and I deeply study into anything that I install.

The other major advantage of DIYers on forums is that it gives us the ability to hear how people actually feel about some technologies....are they useless and just cool or do they make sense and actually get used.

Plus lets not forget that DIY forums provide different opinions and views to problems which people may have. This right here is what helps us advance in everything from installation methods, to products.

I think that it should be understood that both worlds (DIYers and Professionals) have their distinct advantages and disadvantages. But I would not say that one is far beyond the other in their relevent feilds.


----------



## Rasputin

renfrey said:


> Wow.....quite the discussion. Everyone has valid points. HDMI is limited to its distance.....however.....HDMI cable is grossly overpriced.



Unless you get it from Monoprice.com like I do. $6 for a 6 footer. :thumbup:


----------



## renfrey

oops....sorry...you are right....allow me to correct myself.....by saying overpriced, I mean by the big box stores and the big manufactures who are taking advantage of the people who do not know any better....because they can.

You can get decent priced HDMI, just keep an eye on the quality.


----------



## Home Media Professionals

*Well kept Secret.. maybe not*



themode said:


> Hi, very interesting information being provided. I thank you all. What concerns me is that the cables that are being suggested such as rapidrun and Gefen would cost more than 50% of my existing hardware. Has anyone tried running 20 to 25 feet using "uncertified" cables such as the ones from Monoprice?


Monoprice ( use google to find them ) has 50ft cable that has so far worked flawlessly for us so are the 25ft cables. The main point here make sure you account for up and down the wall and so forth when saying its 25ft. You be surprised that 3 foot in equipment room and 2 foot behind your tv just taken out 5 feet from the equation. 

So save some money and do the following. Harmony 890 remote with IR and any cheap HDMI cable from Monoprice. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## Home Media Professionals

*Lengh does matter (only for better half of our population)*



renfrey said:


> Wow.....quite the discussion. Everyone has valid points. HDMI is limited to its distance.....however.....HDMI cable is grossly overpriced.
> 
> The one thing that does catch my attention is the comment on DIY sites....i take offence to this. As a professional and DIYer I both advise and help on DIY forums. I find that DIYers many times take A LOT of time studying into things for the simple reason that they enjoy what they are studying. Many professionals do not neccessarily enjoy what they are doing, and thus won't pay much attention to their training. Plus, many professionals won't go into the depth of studying products and technology as some DIYers. Many of them just want to focus on the essentials to get the product sold and installed. Please keep in mind that I am saying many, not all. I for one love what I am doing, and I deeply study into anything that I install.
> 
> The other major advantage of DIYers on forums is that it gives us the ability to hear how people actually feel about some technologies....are they useless and just cool or do they make sense and actually get used.
> 
> Plus lets not forget that DIY forums provide different opinions and views to problems which people may have. This right here is what helps us advance in everything from installation methods, to products.
> 
> I think that it should be understood that both worlds (DIYers and Professionals) have their distinct advantages and disadvantages. But I would not say that one is far beyond the other in their relevent feilds.


Field Installs HDMI: 43 Installations with 100ft HDMI cables
Over 100 installations with 50ft HDMI cables
and cant even count the 25ft ones.

The only service call history on all of these are on one projector where the owner tilted projector and put stress on connection/connector.

So I guess size only matters in few areas, HDMI is not one of them


----------



## renfrey

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that HDMI is limited to xx distance. I too have also installed some 50'ers without a problem as far as I know. By that I mean that I do not have the expertise nor the equipment to properly test the max lengths of HDMI cables. Trial and error is the only method that I have. Every cable has a limit to its run length dependent on the signal. How much degradation and what effect it has and if the end user will really be bothered or not....that is another topic of discussion.

I have not yet personally tried an HDMI over 50', but I will deffinetly give it a shot now.

People just need to understand that ALL copper style cable has similar limitations, no matter what the signal is. The effect on the different types of signals may be different though. Even fiber optic has it limitations.

But by no means does this mean that we have to pay exuberant amounts of money for one cable over another, most likely just for the name and packaging.


----------

