# High CO2



## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

The CO2 in one of the bedrooms is too high since the drywall was replaced one month ago. 

Unfortunately, the drywall was very badly finished. You can see the outlines of panels between sheets and globs of mud at the intersections. I do not care about aesthetics so I still agreed to use the room.

But the CO2 level keeps going up for no good reason. At night, if you close the door and windows, the CO2 goes up well over 2000. I keep the windows and door half open all the time. Still, the CO2 periodically goes up to 1000 to 1300 at times with the windows open. That can’t be normal.

I am starting to get headaches. I also get the smell of drywall that hits me periodically.

Do you know if a bad drywall job can lead to high CO2 levels?

There is no HVAC system. Only a heater. Would installing an ERV in the room take care of the problem? 

The room did have mold under the vinyl flooring which was cleaned up and replaced with laminate flooring. I don’t see how that could affect CO2 though.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Are you taking CO2 or CO?
What kind of heater, electric, gas, vented or unvented?

Bud


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Drywall is not a source of CO or CO2. Installing the drywall may have sealed the room up so that the existing CO problem is now contained instead leaking out.
This is a serious issue and needs attention NOW.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Do you also have pets in the room with you.

There are unfortunately a lot of bedrooms that reach 2000 PPM Co2 at night while the occupants are asleep. This happens mostly with tight rooms, or rooms that a couple pets also sleep in the same room.

The new drywall may have sealed the room up better than it was, and be causing the high Co2. 

Since it stays high sometimes even with the window partially open, what is outside the house on the window side? A neighbors house, a trucking business?


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

Okay, here is my reply to the many questions. Let me know if I missed anything.

I am referring to CO2. I did not measure CO.

There is a gas heater and stove but they are both far from the room.

It is a single story house.

Outside the house, you will find other suburban tract homes. I suppose neighbors could be using chimneys or barbecues if that is what you are referring to.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

When the Co2 is high. Measure all the other areas of the house that you can. It may not be just your room. In which case the whole house should be connected to a fresh air system such as an ERV or HRV.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Call the gas company. Different gases affect each other & you need an expert for that.
Usually you take a breath when the *CO2 i*n your body gets too high. But, overtime, it can wipe out your normal response and you breathe only for lack of oxygen. It's complicated & also can be deadly.

I had *CO* poisoning for two months. It was insidious & I kept thinking the headache was from dehydration. I was dopey & unable to make good decisions. Wall heaters in rentals are especially bad. The natural gas was also not venting, properly.

No one will scold you for calling. This is one of the "free" benefits we have.

Just to show the complexity -

"A molecule of *carbon monoxide* (*CO*) contains one *carbon* atom and one oxygen atom. ... The gas eventually reacts with oxygen (O2) to form *carbon dioxide* (*CO*2). Natural sources of *carbon monoxide* in Earth's atmosphere include volcanoes and bushfires. Volcanic gases contain between 0.01 and 2% *carbon monoxide*."

*Carbon Monoxide | UCAR Center for Science Education*

Do you have a CO detector?


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

No, I do not have a CO monitor but I can get one.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

How are you measuring the CO2?

Sorry about all the responses & questions but you kind of dropped a bomb. 

Many people writing on here, DIYchatroom, don't know the difference between CO2 & CO abbreviations.


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

I appreciate your help. I’m using an Awair element monitor and a Supco IAQ50 CO2 monitor. The CO2 results for both units are similar.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Lele said:


> I appreciate your help. I’m using an Awair element monitor and a Supco IAQ50 CO2 monitor. The CO2 results for both units are similar.


May I why you're concerned with CO2 enough to have 2 monitors? I'm kind of a monitor geek, myself.





__





Air Quality Monitor For Your House | Awair Element


#1 Air Quality Monitor that tracks 5 invisible environmental factors that impact your health. Access your air data from anywhere. Start breathing easier!




www.getawair.com





Nice. 
But not the gas that can kill you the quickest!


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

There are some more sensitive CO meters. My detector hadn't gone off when I had the poisoning. The guys on here mentioned it. Apparently, they're used more often in Canada.



https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-KN-COU-B-Ultra-Sensitive-Battery-Monoxide/dp/B00IO64NXC


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

if the op had 2000ppm co, would be dead -> i'm sure he meant co2.

if it's just one room that's problematic, running furnace/air handler fan continuously (if present) at night may do the job. even out co2.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

.


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## flyingron (Dec 15, 2020)

Nik333 said:


> She said there's no HVAC


And then she says there's a heater. So there is at least H.

She says she's got concentrations of some unitless value over 1000. If that was CO, it'd be toxic. I suspect it is indeed CO2 that she's complaining about. That's consistent with an unventilated room (especially with a combustion heater). I suspect the previous poster who theorized the room is "tighter" than it was before is the right one.


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

I got the Awair first because I wanted to see why I was getting headaches.Then I noticed I got the headache whenever the CO2 went over 1300. That’s when I got the 2nd monitor to confirm the first.


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

Oh, that’s ppm. If the room is tighter, would an ERV take care of that.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

When you breathe you exhale CO2. In a closed room with a person sleeping, CO2 levels will rise. You need more fresh air if you want lower CO2 levels. You could run your HVAC fan if you have one to circulate air. Or open your door or a window. Not breathing is not an option.
At the public school our ventilation systems brought in outdoor air. With a classroom full of kids CO2 levels have to be controlled or the kids get tired. That might be why I used to fall asleep in school.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

flyingron said:


> And then she says there's a heater. So there is at least H.
> 
> She says she's got concentrations of some unitless value over 1000. If that was CO, it'd be toxic. I suspect it is indeed CO2 that she's complaining about. That's consistent with an unventilated room (especially with a combustion heater). I suspect the previous poster who theorized the room is "tighter" than it was before is the right one.


She clarified what she was concerned about. Carbon Dioxide. It's me that is concerned about a headache with other unknown gas amounts in the room.
Everyone should read the entire thread.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Lele, you'll get some great information out of these guys; they've saved my life before regarding gases, just be patient. They're a little rough around the edges. 😊

Is your dwelling a room in a house? A house? An apartment? Are you renting, visiting, an owner? It just makes a difference in what you can do to change your environment.

@joed is a moderator, maybe it would be better to have this thread in HVAC or Safety? It might get more responses.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Lele said:


> Oh, that’s ppm. If the room is tighter, would an ERV take care of that.


It can. But you should check the other areas of the house. So you can properly apply the ERV.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I would get the gas company down and see if they can check the stove and heater or whatever gas burning appliances you have.

Other sources of CO I have never heard of. Pets farting?? 😝


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

I am not the owner. I rent a room in the house. I am going to measure CO2 in the other rooms. And I ordered a CO monitor. I think that’s a good place to start.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Lele said:


> I am not the owner. I rent a room in the house. I am going to measure CO2 in the other rooms. And I ordered a CO monitor. I think that’s a good place to start.


You can buy a cheap one in any hardware store, Walmart, etc. It's faster. I sure would if I had a headache like that.
You can go down the line of priorities. What can kill you quickly or overtime -
-Carbon Monoxide, lethal, lethal, lethal.
-Carbon Dioxide lethal in high amounts over time
What can give you a headache?
-Carbon Monoxide
-Mold allergies
-Carbon Dioxide ( Apparently. But, I've never met anyone in the hospital who inhaled CO2 & got sick. People who have too much naturally related to lung disease, yes, many.)
-Many more things but I'll let you look that up.

Honestly, I've never heard anyone worry about CO2 except that that is in the Environment and in regard to patients, in the hospital. People with COPD can have high CO2 in their blood.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

In addition, your landlord should have smoke and Carbon monoxide detectors. I thought that was required in all 50 states but maybe not?
I wouldn't argue over it; you can remedy that yourself.








What is carbon monoxide and how do I detect it?


This surprisingly common gas is invisible, odorless and toxic. Here's what else you need to know.




www.safety.com





You can get a small air-purifier at Walmart made by Honeywell. It works well, but, it's mainly for allergies, smoke, etc.


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## Lele (Jan 3, 2021)

Nik333 said:


> In addition, your landlord should have smoke and Carbon monoxide detectors. I thought that was required in all 50 states but maybe not?
> I wouldn't argue over it; you can remedy that yourself.
> 
> 
> ...





Nik333 said:


> You can buy a cheap one in any hardware store, Walmart, etc. It's faster. I sure would if I had a headache like that.
> You can go down the line of priorities. What can kill you quickly or overtime -
> -Carbon Monoxide, lethal, lethal, lethal.
> -Carbon Dioxide over time
> ...


I’ll definitely be getting a CO monitor. CO2 does affect health more than people realize though. Studies show that people start getting a bit dumb at 1000 ppm CO2, but a lot of our offices have CO2 levels well above that range. Explains a lot. 😀









Elevated Indoor Carbon Dioxide Impairs Decision-Making Performance


Overturning decades of conventional wisdom, researchers at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory have found that moderately high indoor concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) can significantly impair people’s decision-making performance. The results were unexpected and may have particular...




newscenter.lbl.gov





Thanks for your help!


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## JohnnyVirgil (Jun 9, 2019)

Lele said:


> The CO2 in one of the bedrooms is too high since the drywall was replaced one month ago.
> 
> Unfortunately, the drywall was very badly finished. You can see the outlines of panels between sheets and globs of mud at the intersections. I do not care about aesthetics so I still agreed to use the room.
> 
> ...


One other thing -- is the heater unvented propane? The byproducts of efficient burning of propane are C02 and water vapor. Even a heater rated for unvented use that is close to 100% efficient will release those gasses. Maybe that's where the excess C02 is coming from.


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## schreib (Apr 30, 2020)

Lele said:


> Oh, that’s ppm. If the room is tighter, would an ERV take care of that.


OK. I have read enough to pretty much understand. I have a CO2(not CO!) monitor myself and agree that readings above 1300 ppm are problematic and you need to get it corrected. The answer is YES, you need a source of fresh air, ERV or HRV. You have not explained many details of your heating system but enough to convince me that your breathing alone in this, likely small, bedroom is enough to cause excessive CO2 levels -- ie much above 1000. 2000 is way high. It is also apparent that, though, you have a heater of some sort it does not move air or at least does not draw in OUTSIDE, fresh air to any degree. You have not said if you have other sources of heat like baseboard heat-- good to know. _You have not said if you suspect the new sheet rock possibly covered up some source of fresh air. _ You should investigate *THAT* thoroughly!

So, Immediately, install a localized(ie in that bedroom or nearby) ERV or HRV(panasonic makes a good line of minimal units) installed by a professional. The very fact that you knew enough to buy a CO2 meter indicates you are educated enough to know how important it is. Likewise your health is important to immediate resolution of this problem. It appears the new sheet rock reduced normal infiltration that had been your source of fresh air -- and dilution of CO2 from your respiration source. You need about 50 cfm(cubic feet per minute) fresh air flow *INTO* and *OUT OF* your home on a continuous basis. Get the pro(use Home Advisor, Angie's List) to specify and install a simple modular ERV or HRV, get multiple quotes, 3 at least, and pick the best one. Do it NOW.

Contact your local building inspector at the County and meet with him. Tell him your problem and ask him what the common, local code requires before you get contractors in. He will also offer lots of good safety advice . . . Good Luck!


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## schreib (Apr 30, 2020)

Lele said:


> I’ll definitely be getting a CO monitor. CO2 does affect health more than people realize though. Studies show that people start getting a bit dumb at 1000 ppm CO2, but a lot of our offices have CO2 levels well above that range. Explains a lot. 😀
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought A highly sensitive CO (_NOT CO2_) monitor. It reads out in PPM for even very low levels. Never had it register above zero-- even when located in the boiler / utility room. * Kidde model KN-COU-B*. I would doubt you will either, but what is your peace of mind worth? Likely, your main problem is getting in fresh air to reduce respiration generated high CO2. It would also be a good idea to get in a friend or family member who is knowledgeable to assist you.

Don't forget to check if the new sheet rock covered up a source of fresh air besides old cracks.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Lele said:


> the drywall was replaced one month ago.
> 
> the drywall was very badly finished.
> 
> ...


There was obviously a big, long-term water problem which caused lots of mold needing both floor and walls replaced. From your description of the finish probably by the DIY owners, it is a good assumption they remedied the mold as well (not professionally) which means it might not have been adequate and still be there and just covered up.
Mold can produce CO2, but it would have to be very active for those levels. But a small amount can definitely causes headaches.
One person in a room should not elevate CO2 levels that high, even overnight. If the room had no air movement, it could sorta "bank" the levels and build higher in consecutive nights though.
You have not yet described the heater everyone is asking about. Is it a room heater, or part of the house's furnace system? The room is required to have heat by something other than a portable unit. Also, if the room was somehow made exceptionally airtight, it is required to have mechanical ventilation (so a fan and fresh air), beyond just having a window.


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## schreib (Apr 30, 2020)

3onthetree said:


> _One person in a room should not elevate CO2 levels that high, even overnight. If the room had no air movement, it could sorta "bank" the levels and build higher in consecutive nights though_.


agree mostly. The average person generates around 80 cubic ft of CO2 per six hours sleeping. . . If a tight room and no HVAC system there is no reason to believe this does NOT accumulate over a few nights to excessive levels, specially if you have door closed. . .

Recommend you place a CO2 meter in room for an hour before going to bed; based on reading(over 1200?) open a window and let it air out with a fan. A possible idea would be to use a 20" window fan facing OUT and let the BR draw air from rest of the home INTO the BR. This results in forcing infiltration from outside walls with end location being the BR. With CO2 meter in BR you can be pretty assured rest of house is OK, too. Check use your 2nd meter to check other areas. When it is down to 600 to 700 you are probably OK.


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## wraiththe (Sep 27, 2011)

Guys, she is renting a room.


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## schreib (Apr 30, 2020)

Lele said:


> I am not the owner. I rent a room in the house. I am going to measure CO2 in the other rooms. And I ordered a CO monitor. I think that’s a good place to start.


Well, uh gee, you are RENTING a room? . . . *move out*.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

schreib said:


> Well, uh gee, you are RENTING a room? . . . *move out*.


That's so easy to say. . . you don't know the situation. We don't even know what state she's in


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

She hasn't been back for 3 days.


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## Priusron (Oct 25, 2020)

Nobody presented the easiest possible fix.open the window slightly and see if the numbers come down to acceptable levels.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Priusron said:


> Nobody presented the easiest possible fix.open the window slightly and see if the numbers come down to acceptable levels.


I believe she said her windows are partially open. See OP, post #1.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

3onthetree said:


> The room is required to have heat by something other than a portable unit. Also, if the room was somehow made exceptionally airtight, it is required to have mechanical ventilation (so a fan and fresh air), beyond just having a window.


Can you quote a regulation? This interests me.


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## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

Nik333 said:


> Can you quote a regulation? This interests me.


That depends on local - If they have adopted the IPMC that is 602.2 but that only eliminates portable unvented fuel appliances. Most places don't adopt that code but rather have their own "property management & upkeep" regulations or even a tenants rights version. There is nothing about room airtightness that I have heard of - codes just state that 8% of SF of floor must = size of window (aka natural light) & that 45% of that minimum is operable (aka a little less 4% SF) but it must at least meet minimum egress requirements which is 5.7 SF


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Nik333 said:


> Can you quote a regulation? This interests me.


Just under basic building planning of the IRC:
R303.4 When having a tight air infiltration rate (tested by measurement) a house must have mechanical ventilation (airflow based on SF and number of bedrooms)
R304.10 When winter design temp for a location is <60F it must have heating capable of maintaining 68F, and portable heaters don't count.

R303.1 As far as windows in a habitable space (bedroom, living, etc), they do not have to be openable for natural ventilation if you satisfy the mechanical ventilation and have met emergency egress via another method. Likewise if you have also met those, then you do not even need a fixed glass window if you provide enough artificial light.


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## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

3onthetree said:


> Just under basic building planning of the IRC:
> R303.4 When having a tight air infiltration rate (tested by measurement) a house must have mechanical ventilation (airflow based on SF and number of bedrooms)
> R304.10 When winter design temp for a location is <60F it must have heating capable of maintaining 68F, and portable heaters don't count.
> 
> R303.1 As far as windows in a habitable space (bedroom, living, etc), they do not have to be openable for natural ventilation if you satisfy the mechanical ventilation and have met emergency egress via another method. Likewise if you have also met those, then you do not even need a fixed glass window if you provide enough artificial light.


Unfortunately that basically is only for new construction - granted some does apply for "change of use" scenarios but that wasn't mentioned & just installing drywall doesn't equate to something one must pull a permit for. The last one is an exception for not having operable or other "natural" light but it does not apply in this case and is very rare, unless you are building a hobbit house


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

@Lele - recently, being in a small courtroom with poor ventilation, masks for COVID, and about 40 people, made a believer out of me! The air was so bad I went out to the lobby. I figure that the fact that the regular courtroom was undergoing construction, and that many people were in a small outbuilding, was too much for the old ventilation system. There was most likely low O2 and high CO2.

Did you ever rectify the situation successfully?

I realized that I often crack the window and increase the heat which has accomplished getting fresher air..

I guess paying more attention to CO2 is the wave of the future.


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