# Can a concrete truck get into my back yard?



## J S Machine

*UPDATE ON PAGE 4. Finished pics of slab!*


I just posted this same thread, and somebody replied. When I went to check the reply the thread had disapeared..I have no idea what happened. 

This is what the original thread said: 

I have contacted both concrete companies in my area about this issue, and neither one of them seem to be worried about getting back with me. I have had calls in for 2 weeks now to two different salesmen that work for each company and they won't return my calls. I talked to both of them initially, and now they are blowing me off. I think they may sense a problem with my situation and really would rather not deal with the job.

My issue is that I have a form that I need to pour in my backyard for a shop I'm going to build. The form is 12x16 and will require 5 yards of concrete. I have a regular concrete driveway and I'm sure it's the avg. 4" thick or so. I also have a wooden privacy fence with a gate that is 8' wide with both doors open. 

I have had people tell me that a truck with 5 yards of concrete will destroy my driveway, some have said it won't. Others have said that the only thing I should be concerened about is the edge of the driveway where it meets the backyard - a possible fail point. I have also had a few people tell me that a truck won't make it through my 8' wide gate opening. I'd be willing to take the fence down, but I'm not going through the trouble if the truck could possibly destroy the driveway. 

One of the salesmen suggested a concrete buggy, which I had never heard of. Maybe leave the truck on the road and go back and fourth between there and the form. I really don't want to have to put any more money into this slab, but if I have to I will. What does it cost to rent one of these things? 

Here is an illustration of my yard with some measurements -










And here is an illustration of my idea. I feel like if the truck can back up the driveway and through the gate, the shute will reach around the tree and reach the form-










Please let me know what you think about this situation and advise the best way for me to do it. Thanks


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## Willie T

I can almost guarantee you your drive is not strong enough at that rear section to stand 20 + tons of truck dropping off it.

Have you priced a concrete pump? Many companies will send both the truck and their own pumper.

Of course the pumper usually needs someplace to clean out the hoses.


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## J S Machine

Willie T said:


> I can almost guarantee you your drive is not strong enough at that rear section to stand 20 + tons of truck dropping off it.
> 
> Have you priced a concrete pump? Many companies will send both the truck and their own pumper.
> 
> Of course the pumper usually needs someplace to clean out the hoses.


I hadn't priced a pump truck, but I figured it would be more than I want to spend. I didn't know that most companies have their own and would send it too. I don't have any idea what the magnitude is of the hose cleaning, but I wouldn't mind them doing it in the back yard. I could easily clean that up. 

I figured maybe I could build the edge of the driveway up well, but like you say, it would peobably be best to explore other alternatives.

I'm not complaining, but this slab project has turned into a real pain. You probably saw my other threads. I replaced the the topsoil in the middle with gravel and compacted it, and lowered the step down like I was advised to do. Everything is good to go and now I can't seem to get any concrete back there without jumping through hoops lol. 

The reason I keep mentioning cost is because I am in way deeper than I thought I'd be. I initially planned to spend about $200-300 on the slab, and I have more than that in it already without concrete! That will be another $500 or so... And if I have to rent a buggy or a pump truck...


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## Scuba_Dave

Pump truck for my foundation pour was an extra $800 here
And they drove over dirt to make the pour
Replacing your driveway will cost more

One reason I do all pavers out back

You had 2 threads on the same topic
Something must have gone wrong when I merged them...sorry


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## BobCaygeon

Perfect little line job......... but remember when you order a pump you may need 1/2 meter of grout, depending on the operator, but 25 ft up to about 50-60'ft of steel line with only one or 2 rubber will prime out fine with slick pack, so grout may not be needed, buy you will need to order 1/2 to 1 full meter to prime the pump, then you need a spot for the pump to wash out which will leave you about a 1/2 meter pile to deal with.


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## kwikfishron

Looks like a pretty small slab. 

What ever happened to a wheelbarrow ?


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## J S Machine

Well, a wheelbarrow isn't out of the question, but for 5 yards of concrete I think it would be pretty rough. And, would a concrete truck be willing to sit there while I go back and fourth from the truck to the form with a wheelbarrow?


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## kwikfishron

I was thinking more like 3 wheelbarrows.

Out here you can get a tow behind line pump with operator for $250-300 for something that small.


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## J S Machine

Just checked. A local line pump co wants $425 minimum.









3 wheelbarrows is out of the question. I might be able to come up with two, but there will only be 1 person helping me, maybe 2 if I'm lucky.


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## J S Machine

Ok. Looks like a "Georgia buggy" will be what I need. local rental place says $90 a day. That isn't bad. It's more than I wanted to spend but I guess that will have to do.


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## joed

Rent a power wheel barrow. They also make ride on versions.


http://www.winnrentals.com/newequip.htm


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## kwikfishron

J S Machine said:


> Ok. Looks like a "Georgia buggy" will be what I need. local rental place says $90 a day. That isn't bad. It's more than I wanted to spend but I guess that will have to do.


Looks like $90 well spent.

The truck will sit there as long as you want. They give you like 40 min. then just charge truck time after that.

That’s probably a question you should ask. How much time do I get before the price goes up?


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## J S Machine

joed said:


> Rent a power wheel barrow. They also make ride on versions.
> 
> 
> http://www.winnrentals.com/newequip.htm


That's what a "georgia buggy" is apparently. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## 47_47

J S Machine said:


> My issue is that I have a form that I need to pour in my backyard for a shop I'm going to build. The form is 12x16 and will require 5 yards of concrete.


Just out of curiosity, do you really need the slab 8" thick?


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## J S Machine

47_47 said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you really need the slab 8" thick?


The slab surface is 4" and it has 12"x12" footings. There is a little fall in the center of the slab area and also a small step out front, so a little extra is figured in.


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## BobCaygeon

I know around these parts for a full load, you get 1 hour to unload and after that hour it's $1.00 per minute or $60.00 per hour


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## Bud Cline

A skid steer may be cheaper in the long run.


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## tpolk

it will go quick with buggy. make sure you wet down drive and get tarp for under truck shoot. tarp can then be used over slab to help with curing. dont forget to seal concrete after it sets proper amount of time


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## Thurman

My neighbor had a unattached garage built some five years ago, or so. They did not want their drive busted either, and we did not have concrete pumpers in this area at that time. The concrete contractor rented two rather small tractors with large buckets on the front and weights, not a backhoe, on the back to carry the mud to the site. Those two guys evidently had done this before and did it very fast while a few more guys spread the mud out. There was some damage to the yard for sure, but that was fixed rather easily. That was a 24 x 36 pour with footers. David


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## Yoyizit

5 yds = 7 tons of concrete?
How much does that power buggy carry at one time?


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## J S Machine

Yoyizit said:


> 5 yds = 7 tons of concrete?
> How much does that power buggy carry at one time?


I'm not sure. I'm gonna call tomorrow and find out everything I need to know about it. I have to get a trailer and I need to know how big of a trailer I need.


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## joed

The one I posted has a capacity of 500 lbs.
The ride on one at the same site has a capacity of 870 lbs.


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## jomama45

My recommendation would be either:

- At least 2 wheel barrels with 2 strong helpers on them. This route should help you get the concrete placed closer to it's final home as opposed to a power buggy.

OR

- Rent a 16 cubic foot power buggy and have a helper run it for you without breaking a sweat. This route should save possible waiting charges from the ready-mix supplier, and shouldn't have much of an issue with traction or lawn destruction as long as you haven't gotten a ton of rain recently. But, I highly doubt you will be able to build a temporary ramp to get the power buggy & concrete into the pour. It's very heavy when full, as a 16 cf. model will haul about .4 yard or so per trip.

I would NOT recommend bringing the truck on the driveway if you don't know how it's "built", much less back it off on a soft edge. Not worth the risk IMO. The pump is way overkill IMO as well. 2 of my laborers would have that wheeled from the street to the pad in 15-20 minutes & never utter one complaint about it, BUT they're some tough SOB's! 

Good luck, & here's a pic of some power buggy's:

















PS, the "racey" graphics aren't a neccessity........ :whistling2:


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## jomama45

Yoyizit said:


> 5 yds = 7 tons of concrete?
> How much does that power buggy carry at one time?


 
Concrete in it's plastic form is far closer to 4500#'s per yard, about 4000#'s fully cured.



The 16 cubic foot buggies I listed above are meant ot haul about 1500#'s, bit they'll haul a tad more w/o spilling if it isn't too wet.


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## J S Machine

One side of the form already has a built up earth ramp. I compacted it the other day when I did the gravel in the center. This ramp will be for the roll up door. I know it will be easy getting it in on that side, but it may be a tad challenging on the back. No big deal really. 

For what it's worth, I'm really not that worried about tearing up the backyard. I can always fix that later, and besides, its not like there is any decent grass growing back there anyway. I will do the yard a favor by knocking down some weeds lol.


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## jomama45

I'd still keep the wheels of the buggy a few inches away from the forms at least, as the things are heavy & will bow the form very fast. I can't see you being able to drive "inside" the forms either with the thickened edge. Not really a big deal though, as the majority of the crete goes in the outside perimeter anyways.


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## Willie T

And keep remembering to watch where you let that truck drive. I wasn't joking when I said it will weigh well more than 20 tons loaded with only 5 yards.


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## Scuba_Dave

Yes they are heavy
They backed in to pour my footing
Freshly dug dirt - but had been backed over by the machine that did the digging & seemed solid
But the truck sank & left ~12" ruts at the end

So the foundation pour was a pumper truck
--unless I agreed to be responsible if the truck got stuck
In which case I would need to pay for a tow truck + time stuck


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## Yoyizit

The lowest cost option here may be between 
renting one buggy and 
renting so many that they are just shy of bumping into each other.

It depends on the buggy capacity, the time to load, travel the few yards and unload, the people you have available, etc.

It's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research
but you can do it with a spreadsheet. It might be worthwhile for a project this large and complex. At least you can eliminate those options that are clearly undesirable.


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## jogr

Don't let that concrete truck on your drive. Don't rent a pumper. Do rent one power buggy (my local rental place rents them for $45 for a half day which is plenty.) One guy can drive it back and forth while the other spreads the crete in the form. The buggy can shoot the concrete a little bit as it dumps, if you work your way around the perimeter you won't have too much manual spreading to do. It really won't be many trips with a power buggy. 

If you had 3 people on the job it would be better because two could screed while one ran the buggy. The buggy doesn't require any strength to use, your wife might enjoy operating it if she's available to help, or maybe a local teenager that wants to earn a few bucks.

If all you have is you and one helper and it gets too slow then offer the truck driver a twenty to drive the buggy back and forth. He's just waiting there anyway and might prefer to line his wallet instead of his employers. I was doing a similar project and the truck driver just jumped right in to help me screed. He was the type that can't stand around watching people work (and maybe he had somewhere else to get to, LOL). I tipped him handsomely. But don't count on the truck driver's help, some are content to watch.


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## Yoyizit

jogr said:


> your wife might enjoy operating it if she's available to help, or maybe a local teenager that wants to earn a few bucks.


Don't. You end up on the evening news.


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## jogr

Yoyizit said:


> Don't. You end up on the evening news.


LOL The one I rented was as easy to operate as a lawn mower. A lot simpler than a car - of course we know how teenagers and women do with those......Did I say that out loud


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## Yoyizit

jogr said:


> LOL The one I rented was as easy to operate as a lawn mower. A lot simpler than a car - of course we know how teenagers and women do with those......Did I say that out loud


If it runs like a Deere, watch out
http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedla...-like-a-deere-or-next-years-emmy-episode.html

"Smitty decides to take the tractor out for a spin. That goes just fine, until the ever-hapless secretary Lois takes the wheel and careens through the office -- right over Guy Mackendrick's foot. "


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## frenchelectrican

There were few members mention very clear about not let the concrete truck drive on the 4 inch driveway it will get busted pretty quick let me fill you in quick facts I know you will say OMG .,,

Loaded 10 or 11 yd front discharge truck will weight in little shy over 80,000 Lbs { there are few case it will go much as 90,000 and some more }

once it empty out the weight will be about 32,000 or so Lbs depending if front or rear dischage unit { rear discharge are little lighter } 

And I do own a 12 tonne crane truck and that weight in 47,000 lbs and when I check the site before I drive my crane truck I try to advoid the driveway much as I can unless the owner will plan to replace it then let it done.

I allready busted couple driveway from this and yeah for ruts I have left few pretty deep one as well plus pad marking from outriggers the deepest rut I left was about 9 inch deep or so.

now for the rest of readers there are few tips to make it easier for to haul the cement is get power buggy or skidsteer loader { even you can ask one of your freind to use it if they willing to do that and make sure you clean the bucket when you get done they are pain in arse to get it off once it dry out}

the other thing that many cement truck driver and crane driver including myself we will make a quick site check to veirfy the safety to drive the truck on the site.

there are few tips to give the drivers a warning if they will run the cement trucks or crane truck as well if need to { it will happend from time to time } we will not get too close to the edge of the earth wall { exvacted ground } otherwise the ground will shift from the weight of truck.

also if you have holding tank or septic tank please .,, please make sure you inform us about that we will advoid it much as we can { I allready did crack one } ditto with underground fuel tanks and any buried uilites lines.

Merci,Marc


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## BobCaygeon

frenchelectrican said:


> there are few tips to give the drivers a warning if they will run the cement trucks or crane truck as well if need to { it will happend from time to time } we will not get too close to the edge of the earth wall { exvacted ground } otherwise the ground will shift from the weight of truck.
> 
> also if you have holding tank or septic tank please .,, please make sure you inform us about that we will advoid it much as we can { I allready did crack one } ditto with underground fuel tanks and any buried uilites lines.
> 
> Merci,Marc


Good call Marc... Maintaining the 1 to 1 rule ground rule in most parts around here is not only a good idea, but it's now the law. 1 foot back for every 1 foot of drop

I have operated 28meter up 65meter concrete boom pumps with ground pressures up to 70 tons when flat sticked 180'ft out, needless to say, any time you are not on engineered soil you are at risk, Farm work is scary stuff , you just never know what is buried beneath your set up. Having Ran a few front discharge and rear discharge 3-4 axle mixers, they are heavy and on a warm day will kill your 4" ashphalt

Maintain the 17'ft power line rule as well, LOOK UP! assume everthing is HOT!

Here's the way I'd do it !....lol


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## Bud Cline

Skid steer, cheaper in the long run.


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## Yoyizit

Anybody make a concrete conveyor belt, or any conveyor that has a "U" cross section, that hugs the ground? It'll take a lot less hp than having the pipe arc through the air.


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## concretemasonry

Some delivery trucks in our area had belts, but the range was limited and not proctical for most jobs since buggies and pumps were more usable. If you want to run a belt a long distance the set-up cost could be a problem (support and time).


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## frenchelectrican

BobCaygeon said:


> . Having Ran a few front discharge and rear discharge 3-4 axle mixers, they are heavy and on a warm day will kill your 4" ashphalt
> 
> Maintain the 17'ft power line rule as well, LOOK UP! assume everthing is HOT!
> 
> Here's the way I'd do it !....lol



That is true with warm day the last time I did left a rut in ashphalt it was good 6 inch thick it did left a very nice imprint escpeally if it was a new one that is the worst but don't go there with privte owned parking lot they are worst they are about 3 to 5 inches thick and I did manged to make a mess on one spot { yeah we have couple hevey metro bus do the same thing as well :whistling2: }

Now the other thing with overhead lines we have to watch all the time it don't take much to ruin your day very fast with it.

Merci,Marc


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## BobCaygeon

Yoyizit said:


> Anybody make a concrete conveyor belt, or any conveyor that has a "U" cross section, that hugs the ground? It'll take a lot less hp than having the pipe arc through the air.


The closest thing to what your talking about, that I know of, would be a Putzmiester Telebelt 105'ft and 130'ft... as far as engine HP needed to push mud through a boom system, without any other addition line added off the boom conveying it really ain't all that much different in respect to HP needed, generally 1100-1400 engine RPM will give you lots of power for pumping vertical up to 200 ft. High rise pumping and multi stage pumping takes huge amounts of HP to push the mud through system line into a tower placing boom because of resistance. The engine PTO runs a main variable displacement hydraulic pump for the pump kit and auxiliary fixed displacement pumps for the boom functions, same as the Telebelt, so surprisingly enough it doesn't take a lot of engine Horse power to pump concrete, depending on the mix and slump but generally the engine never breaks a sweat. Telebelts are nice when they can be utilized but they are limited as they cannot articulate.


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## jomama45

The Telebelts are slowing taking place of the pumps here. They seem far more efficient in principle, don't need a prime, can place near any slump, stone size, or steel fibermesh, require less costly maintanence, can place much faster, etc...... Most of the bigger foundation contractors here have gone to the belts as it allows them to place all of their washed stone very efficiently as well.

The downside, as mentioned, is they aren't as flexible when it comes to working around objects.


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## BobCaygeon

I agree, a pump is just no match for a Telebelt, they can move the mud a whole quicker than a pump. A pump at best will move theoretically160- 220 meters per hour and that is having two trucks backed up to the pump and a couple of batch plants just rockin and rolling to supply it, but again that's theoretically speaking, as a state of the art plant can generally only supply 100 meters an hour, with single and split batch systems, but that's all pumps can do is concrete, so they have their limitations as well.

My buddy and his Telebelt go crazy in the peak season big demand here too, he will hammer off stone in the morning then hammer off 3-4 afternoon walls, it's nothing for a Telebelt to sling a few hundred ton of stone in the morning then 500 meters of concrete in a 10-15 hour day. I have found that using the telebelt on walls seems to honeycomb a lot with low cement content wall mixes, but for low slump and harsh mixes like already mentioned you cannot beat a telebelt it will move everything you got fast.


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## Yoyizit

BobCaygeon said:


> Putzmiester


Interesting name.

Putzfrau means "cleaning lady" in German but putzmeister didn't translate with my online translation site.

But, some Germans I was just talking to on Skype said it might mean someone who puts stucco or some similar material on buildings. In this context it sort of makes sense.


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## jomama45

Yoyizit said:


> Interesting name.
> 
> Putzfrau means "cleaning lady" in German but putzmeister didn't translate with my online translation site.
> 
> But, some Germans I was just talking to on Skype said it might mean someone who puts stucco or some similar material on buildings. In this context it sort of makes sense.


 
From what I've been told, it translates to "plaster master" or something similar. I assume the company started out making plaster pumps.


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## Red Squirrel

I don't know how well this would work, but could you just mix the cement on site, in the form? Drop the dry cement in the form, add the water from the garden hose, mix as it's filling up. Guess it would be much harder to measure that way though so you have the right mixture.


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## Yoyizit

Red Squirrel said:


> dry cement


It's less dense than 170#/cu. ft. but it is still a lot of weight to be carried. The OP could rent some helpers from "Manpower" or companies like that. It'd be $12/hr per person, maybe, with some minimum charge.


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## Bud Cline

> I don't know how well this would work, but could you just mix the cement on site, in the form? Drop the dry cement in the form, add the water from the garden hose, mix as it's filling up.


At what point is it that someone declares this thread totally derailed and closes it?

A skid steer would be cheaper in the long run.


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## J S Machine

Finally poured it yesterday morning. I used a buggy and it solved the truck on my driveway issue. A buggy was the way to go and made it go like a breeze. Cost me about $109 for a day and unloading that thing off of a trailer was a little tricky. One set of tires in the rear and two in the front - kind of like a tricycle. 

The concrete took a little longer to cure than I expected, which was great because it gave us plenty of time to float it. I expected it to harden up real fast and get away from us like the last one I did. 

After I floated it with a bull float it really looked good. I was so impressed at how good it looked I couldn't believe it. We had a threat of rain coming so we stood around for about an hour. I figured surely the surface had cured good enough to not get messed up, so my friend and I started to drag a piece of plastic over it to protect it from the rain. Sure enough, it wasn't cured enough and the plastic marked the surface all up :furious:.

So, left with no choice, I pulled out a piece of plywood and took my trowel and smoothed everything back out as best as I could. It looks pretty good, but near as good as it did. I wasn't going to run the bull float back over it because there were some areas that had partially hardened and i knew that would probably be a disaster. I did get the concrete mixed with fiber, and I pust say that troweling that stuff was a pain in the butt. 

Anyway, after about another hour, it had cured to the point where we could put the plastic on it. We did it just in time because it started to rain just as we got it covered. 










I understand it's also better to cover it to help it cure properly. Can anybody explain this in further detail? I mean How long do I need to keep it covered? 

Also, When do I need to attempt to take the form boards off of the sides?


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## joed

The important curing fact is to not let the concrete dry too quickly. You actually water it with the hose for several days.


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## BobCaygeon

Looks good ! generally you should be able to strip it the next day depending on the slump and percent of fly ash in the mix, was it a high early mix or mid range ?

High early will be up to strength in 7 - 28 days. with no water reducing agent you can expect 28- 56 days for full strength


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## J S Machine

BobCaygeon said:


> Looks good ! generally you should be able to strip it the next day depending on the slump and percent of fly ash in the mix, was it a high early mix or mid range ?


 
I couldn't tell you. They didn't specify. I bet they probably mixed it a little "friendly" because the dispatcher for the truck yard knew it would be just me and a couple of my friends doing it. 

The buggy was a 16 cubic foot bucket, and the driver of the truck was nice enough to not fill it so full so that it didn't slosh onto my driveway as i was cruising back and fourth.


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## jomama45

JS, if you have any plastic sheeting around, that should suffice for curing. Cover it a few days, or set old blankets on it and soak them down. The key to this is that you need to keep the concrete wet the entire time or you're merely "peeing in the wind."

On eidt, I realize you already have plastic on it, so just leave it if you want. You could still put something over the plastic to block the sun out as well to really extend the cure.

Glad to see you got this poured w/o incedent.


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## BobCaygeon

As jomama has stated, the plastic or blankets will be fine, the heat of hydration on a slab of that size will be minimal.


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## J S Machine

It will be a few months before I build on it anyway. I have to save up the money for the structure itself now. What is the best way to keep it protected until then? My backyard is pretty shady anyway, so it won't get direct sunlight. 

If I haven't said it already, thanks for everybody's help. I couldn't have done this thing as well as I did without yall :thumbup:


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## Yoyizit

J S Machine said:


> The buggy was a 16 cubic foot bucket


The buggy carried 2600#? So it took 5(27)/16 = 8 trips? Was it just you?

I've heard that the concrete is supposed to cure rather than dry and that it may take a month to reach full compressive strength.

Glad it turned out OK.


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## Willie T

If you are going to cut control joints in that slab, make sure to get in done by tomorrow. It doesn't do a lot of good if you wait past a couple of days.


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