# Failed emissions inspection again



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

What "category" is that? Because they smelled gas vapors? 

Is it throwing an SES light?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Is there a possibility to try a different testing facility.

Sometimes those places have a bias against certain older vehicles, and will fail them regardless. 

And if that seal ring even leaks one drop it will leave a smell.

It might leak only when filled-up, or might slosh on a turn.

I'm luckier than other states, we are expected to keep our vehicles maintained without a mandatory inspection, before licensing.

So there are a few on the roads here that have faulty tires, brakes, lights, etc.


ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

Check engine light is not coming on. When they pressurize the fuel system, pressure or vapor leaks out somewhere. It failed at two different locations.


Yesterday, the guy let me end the test early so I wouldn't lose my free re-test


Ahh......When I was removing old fuel filler neck, some fuel spilled. Hopefully that was the cause of the fumes.


Let me ask you guys this. Would you just leave that fuel pump locking ring as is and just focus on replacing fuel/vapor lines?


In Arizona, they only allow a temporary registration renewal till you get your emissions issue resolved. It expires next Friday.



(I think they should abolish these emissions inspections)


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I would get it re-tightened, because I am in a wet road environment in the winter and spring thaw, and there is a possibility that water can get into the tank.

Arid-zona, is not so wet as long as here.

And if it leaks , there pressure test is going to have odors always.

It is your call.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Did you try tapping the lock ring with a drift and mallet? Sometimes they need a little persuasion to snug up all the way.


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I worked on this today. See that hose in the photo by itself below the two fuel lines on top of the fuel pump? I was told that is the vapor hose that goes to the charcoal canister. I looked under the truck and found a hose that had partially loosened. I disconnected it and a little bit of brown gooey stuff came out that smelled like gas. I assume that was the vapor hose. When I ran engine nothing came out of that line.


The old fuel vapor hose was too inaccessible to reach. It was fastened inside the frame rail and was interrupted by a couple segments of steel line. So I extended new fuel vapor hose from that white cap in the photo to the charcoal canister in the engine bay. I left the old vapor line in place and capped off the steel segment in the engine bay.



Then I started engine. It ran fine. I observed below the truck for fuel leaks and fumes and didn't see any. The fuel vapor lines do not pass through any electronics. So the fuel vapor line should just be a straight shot from gas tank to charcoal canister from what I saw underneath.


But I agree that locking ring is suspect also. That one locking ring tab is hung up against the notch. So I think I have to wack it downward.Then I think it would slide in under the notch like it's supposed to. Do you think it might damage the fuel pump if I strike down on the locking tab?


I'd like to try this tomorrow night after work. I also plan to replace the vapor hose from charcoal canister to throttle body. Does it sound like I hooked up that new vapor hose correctly?


----------



## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I would fix the locking ring.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

The vapor hose was in the frame to protect it from road debris tearing it out. 

They might nix this modification, but if you have a line from the can to the return nozzle, it should be functional.

Do try to protect the exposed line from flying debris.

Usually a Drift punch, and a few whacks with a hammer, and the rubber gasket will squash enough for the lock ring to slide around and lock in place.

That is if the rubber is not kinked somehow.


ED


----------



## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

I'd back that locking ring off and make sure it looks to be in good shape. Then get it centered just right and ease it back together slowly, making sure it gets under all the side ramps that will hold it down evenly to stop the pressure from escaping. Tighten it by going in a pattern like you do snugging up wheel lugs so all sides get equal attention.


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

They won't care about the modification. I have never seen them look under the vehicle. They're just looking for a pass or fail on their computer screen. And they like to see receipts of the parts purchased.


I'm hesitant to back off and reverse the locking ring. I tried that before and it didn't help for the reason in the next paragraph.


That one notch is bent downward a little compared to the other notches. That's why I wasn't able to slide that remaining tab underneath. Service garage must have done that years ago before I did my own repairs. 



The notch and tab are are almost flush edge to edge. That's why I was considering a downward strike on the locking ring tab, Maybe I'll use my hard rubber mallet instead of a hammer.


----------



## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Some smog failures are a result of the man administering the test and his subjective opinion. Once that gets entered manually in the results, it gets reported via modem to the network and you are thereby ratted out to all other smog test stations. It can be hard to get out from under that without a good and sure fix that you can convince the test official that you have sure nuff fixed it. He's just going by the stuff he sees on his screen that the first man reported. I wouldn't use that guy again... he could have cut you some slack instead of being a rat.


----------



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Fix the lock ring, use a brass punch and dead blow hammer or the special tool. No sparks around the gas tank!


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks. I just looked up dead blow hammer online.

Can that notch (ramp or whatever it's called) on top of the gas tank be bent slightly upward? I started to do that last year. But I backed off, as I was concerned I might break it off.

What's that ramp notch made of? It looks like it might be plastic.


----------



## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Mix up some rich soap & water solution and bubble test that for leaks before doing anything. A spray bottle work well for applying that. No point in traumatizing it if it isn't leaking. Blow a little compressed air in the filler hose to gently pressurize the tank... hold a shop towel or rag around it so a low amount of pressure can build up.

If it was leaking and you fixed it, bubble test again to make sure it's fixed.


----------



## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

I think that uses an O-ring for the seal so make sure it's seated properly. All those tabs are metal and spot welded to the tank... no plastic involved. They won't bend easily so shouldn't be bent unless someone got too rough with it.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Rangerxlt said:


> Thanks. I just looked up dead blow hammer online.
> 
> Can that notch (ramp or whatever it's called) on top of the gas tank be bent slightly upward? I started to do that last year. But I backed off, as I was concerned I might break it off.
> 
> What's that ramp notch made of? It looks like it might be plastic.


What is the tank made from? Some are plastic, older ones were steel.

If it is a plastic tank, use a HOT screwdriver to reshape it into more of a bevel, to allow the ring to slip under it's edge , then it all should just slip-slide around to tighten up.

In lieu of a heated screwdriver an electric soldering tip can suffice.

It's obvious that you don't want any flame source around there, but I want to add it. 

If metal a locking needle-nose plier does wonders here.


ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

That's a good idea Surfer. But they might use higher pressure at the emissions station. Worth a try. 

Also, I wonder if I could wedge a putty knife between the locking ring tab and notch. If I can do this, then maybe I could tap it into the ramp with low impact


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes, It does use a rubber O-Ring. That ramp is definitely bent slightly downward. That's the cause of this. Even if those ramps/tabs permanently affixed to the tank are metal, I'm not sure I would even want to bend those. The tank looks plastic. But I don't know for sure.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Do you have a magnet, there are only 2 kinds of tank on ford. Steel or plastic, a magnet sticks onto steel.

Also they have different sounds when knocked on.

As I stated earlier locking needle nose plier, and gently pry to move it wider.




ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

A magnet...of course. Yes, I have a telescopic magnetic pick-up tool. Thanks, Ed!


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I made progress tonight. I'll follow up tomorrow night


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

Ok. I was able to slide that last tab under the ramp. I used a drift punch to tap it sideways. As it turns out, the ramp notches and fuel pump mounting area are metal. The body of the gas tank is plastic/polyethylene.

Part of that locking ring is still pressed down slightly more than the other part of ring. So I don't know if the gas tank is slightly warped from old age. 

Is Surfer's pressure test safe to do? Those cans of compressed air have chemicals. Will it affect any sensors?


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Good that you got the ring locked in correct.

Does pressurizing an old plastic tank really sound like a good idea to you?

If I were thinking about this, I would get an old gas cap, modify it to hold a metal tire stem.

And use a bicycle pump to pressurize to about 10 psi. 

But no more, because of the plastic tank, might be too flimsy after all these years.

Plastic degrades in UV radiation, and after years of radiation, it will crumble.



ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

They pressurize the tank at the emissions station. I don't know how much
And they actually do use this modified gas cap gadget you speak of.

I need to make a few observations tonight after work. I'll respond again tonight


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

It really shouldn't be a problem doing a low pressure test. These are made of really tough plastics and even though they don't really see much UV I would bet they are UV stabilized. The problem you are going to have is finding a leak if you have one, especially if it is small.



Rangerxlt said:


> They pressurize the tank at the emissions station. I don't know how much
> And they actually do use this modified gas cap gadget you speak of.
> 
> I need to make a few observations tonight after work. I'll respond again tonight


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> They pressurize the tank at the emissions station. I don't know how much
> And they actually do use this modified gas cap gadget you speak of.


They run the test on 76-95 model year systems. Later vehicles have a sensor the monitors the system, throws codes, lights a light.
I can’t speak to how your state tests them. However, if they follow Calif. they use a machine like this for testing.
https://www.esp-global.com/ESS/California/california-evap

They use 1/2 psi (recommended gas nitrogen). The machine measures and calculates the leak rate. To run the leak test, they disconnect the hose at the canister and plug it.

I hope you realize that the system is normally running under engine vacuum. Too much pressure might cause problems of opening a leak where none exists under vacuum.


----------



## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Check to see if your state has a I/M WAIVER POLICY.


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

How would a fuel tank be exposed to UV radiation?


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm also replacing the segment of evap hose between the charcoal canister and throttle body, because it's so old. But I need to improvise a connector and hose elbow. I was looking for the parts last night. After that, I'll probably take it in for the 2nd inspection.

I was smelling gasoline fumes from the pick-up box area sometimes after exiting truck. Not smelling that anymore. I guess that's a good sign.

I learned from motor vehicle that I can get about two weeks extension on my vehicle tag for less than $5. Also to answer Ron's question, if you fail two inspections they have the discretion to give you a one time pass if you still have not resolved the problem.

(And when this is resolved, I'll contact state officials to get emissions testing abolished)

I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

huesmann said:


> How would a fuel tank be exposed to UV radiation?


If you bother to look it up, you will discover that it permeates from the sun, and penetrates earth's atmosphere, and you get some even indoors. 

Sunlight can be reflected by any pavement, and even dirt.

It is there.


ED


----------



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

While UV light can be reflected, I doubt the reflected light will degrade plastic fuel tanks.

https://uvimate.com/blog/reflection-ultraviolet-radiation.html


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Bigplanz said:


> While UV light can be reflected, I doubt the reflected light will degrade plastic fuel tanks.
> 
> https://uvimate.com/blog/reflection-ultraviolet-radiation.html


I have had to replace at least 2 in my life, from degradation.


ED


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Still don't know why we think the fuel tank is plastic...never seen an OEM tank made of plastic. Have seen them made with a plastic shield underneath, to protect from road debris.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

huesmann said:


> Still don't know why we think the fuel tank is plastic...never seen an OEM tank made of plastic. Have seen them made with a plastic shield underneath, to protect from road debris.


Since the early '70s Ford has used OEM plastic tanks in their vehicles.

ED

Edit: not all Ford vehicle models, but some of them have had plastic tanks.


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I'll try to get that last section of evap hose replaced tonight after work. What is the best condition for passing the fuel pressure test....full tank of gas..........1/2 Tank.....3/4 tank?


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

It's actually pretty common these days. My 2009 Tacoma tank is plastic. So is the bed. And neither is degrading due to UV or otherwise. Plastic tanks are superior to metal in many ways, especially when it comes to comes to corrosion. I had to replace the tank on my first car, a used 1966 Mustang, when the top, which was also the trunk floor, rusted through. Lucky that car didn't blow or burn up.



huesmann said:


> Still don't know why we think the fuel tank is plastic...never seen an OEM tank made of plastic. Have seen them made with a plastic shield underneath, to protect from road debris.


----------



## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Both of my post-1970s Mustangs had steel tanks. Le shrug.

Raylo32, are you saying the entire bed of your truck is plastic? As in, no steel underneath?


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes. Toyota calls it a composite bed. It is pretty thick and very tough. It can't be dented and I have never broken or chipped it in any way. The frame rails the bed bolts to are steel, of course.



huesmann said:


> Both of my post-1970s Mustangs had steel tanks. Le shrug.
> 
> Raylo32, are you saying the entire bed of your truck is plastic? As in, no steel underneath?


----------



## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Old plain-steel tanks will rust quickly from the 10% ethanol gasoline that we more or less have to use now. Ditto steel fuel pumps and lines. Worst are the early mid-80's to 90's fuel injected cars that were not made with ethanol in mind. Plastic or stainless is the way to go.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

ChuckF. said:


> Old plain-steel tanks will rust quickly from the 10% ethanol gasoline that we more or less have to use now. Ditto steel fuel pumps and lines. Worst are the early mid-80's to 90's fuel injected cars that were not made with ethanol in mind. Plastic or stainless is the way to go.


It is not the ethanol in the gas that rusts tanks.

Moonshine, attracts water from the air, So it is the water that is in the moonshine, that rusts fuel components. 

There is a couple of stations here that sells E-Free gas, at a quarter or so more cost per gallon. :vs_mad:

Another rip off, just like in the '70s when unleaded was new, it costs more to not add something? Balderdash.

ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I passed emissions this morning. Thanks everyone.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Great.

I like to hear that someone else drives the older vehicles for a lifetime, at least the lifetime of the vehicle.

I drove an "87" until it would not go any more. 

Had to replace it after 25 years. 300,000 miles. 

I cried when that BLONDE hit it and wrecked it. :vs_mad:

Then she flirted her way out of a traffic citation.

How often do they test vehicles in Arizona?

Yearly?

ED


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

My 92' Ranger is up to 455,000 miles now. My vehicle category is required to be inspected every two years.


This is a big load off. I only have this one truck. I was down to 3 day restricted use permits. And they don't allow you to drive to work or run errands on those.


I'll celebrate with a Black & Tan beer tonight, I'll post the beer picture in another forum.


----------



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Rangerxlt said:


> I passed emissions this morning. Thanks everyone.


My guess is tapping that fuel pump tight did the trick.


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah. It was probably that along with the evap hose connector that was coming loose under the truck.


----------



## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

Thankfully where I am located, emissions testing, was done away with last year. It was determined that it was a waste of money as most vehicles passed, yet everyone had to pay to have this done every two years. A waste, not to mention unscrupulous mechanics, and public gouging. Probably the only government decision I ever agreed with.


----------



## Rangerxlt (Nov 2, 2017)

I agree Polarzak, I complained to state officials in the past about emissions inspections. It puts an undue burden on citizens. The new cars and electric ones are replacing the old vehicles anyway. 

I heard Washington State abolished their emissions testing program in January.

After I passed emissions Saturday morning, I renewed my one year vehicle registration online. It tacked on an $8 late fee after I followed the regulations and used the required temporary driving passes. The system won't allow you to renew the standard vehicle tags till you resolve your emissions problem! Already complained about that. This is nothing but a revenue grab.


----------



## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

Rangerxlt said:


> This is nothing but a revenue grab.



Absolutely. In a side note, my daughter's 2009 Ranger was totaled recently by some idiot, and as she loved it dearly, wanted another. It has been impossible to find another Ranger in the same year or newer, (last year made was 11) , so with the settlement money (plus) we are picking up a 2010 Mazda B4000, better known as the Ranger clone. I hope so, as we had really a good experience with that Ranger.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

polarzak said:


> Absolutely. In a side note, my daughter's 2009 Ranger was totaled recently by some idiot, and as she loved it dearly, wanted another. It has been impossible to find another Ranger in the same year or newer, (last year made was 11) , so with the settlement money (plus) we are picking up a 2010 Mazda B4000, better known as the Ranger clone. I hope so, as we had really a good experience with that Ranger.


Actually, the Ranger was a clone. 

During many years, Ford bought unbranded Mazdas, Mitsubishis, and other Japanese stuff, and just added their badge.

Especially their smaller stuff.

So the B4000, might have different labels, but is the same thing.


ED


----------



## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Actually, the Ranger was a clone.
> 
> 
> ED



Ah, I see...... The Clone Ranger.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

polarzak said:


> Ah, I see...... The Clone Ranger.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::biggrin2::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


ED


----------



## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

polarzak said:


> Ah, I see...... The Clone Ranger.


I got to admit, I didn't see that one coming. :vs_laugh:


----------

