# Ridgid 18v vs Dewalt 14.4v xrp vs el cheapo?



## scottrob (Jul 28, 2008)

Hi - I'm trying to decide on what cordless to buy (or should I say keep - I have them both and trying to decide which to return).

I'm not interested in other recommendations for high dollar brands (I know everyone has a preference...but these are the only 1s I want to focus on).

I don't use a drill often in terms of every day (so they sit around on me), but when I use them - I am hard on them. I want to be able to do basic stuff around the house, along with driving 3" screws into oak, doing fencing/decking, etc. and I really only want 1 cordless drill. I have a number of other tools I want to buy, so spending $200 for the Ridgid or Dewalt is painful - but I want a tool that will last and is going to WORK WELL. I laugh when I say last because I have several other cheaper drills (Ryobi as an example) that are in a drawer because the batteries die and it's cheaper to buy a whole new set.

I'm down to this:
- Ridgid 18V Lithium compact drill (only because of the value of getting free battery replacements for life - this solves the problem I have had to date) $206 out the door
- Dewalt 14.4 V XRP drill (this drill feels great in my hands), very nice; $196 out the door
- just get some cheap 18V drill like a kawasaki or something (just get something that works for the 1-2 yrs until I have to buy another set).

The Ridgid and Dewalt have the same torque, but the Ridgid is a lot smaller/lighter. I drove screws into 4" posts with them and about the same result - although on the lower setting of Dewalt it really buries the scews and was just easier to do the job on me. I have to push harder on the Ridgid - just a smaller drill.

Which should I choose? Should I let the battery replacement drive my decision between these drills? Or should I go cheap? I have a Ridgid service center close to where I live and I called and asked what I needed and it sounded very easy to just swap to a new battery.

I've been stewing on this for a week now - help is much appreciated...I don't want to regret my decision.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

scottrob said:


> - Ridgid 18V Lithium compact drill (only because of the value of getting free battery replacements for life - this solves the problem I have had to date) $206 out the door
> - Dewalt 14.4 V XRP drill (this drill feels great in my hands), very nice; $196 out the door


An 18v battery can put out (18.0/14.4)^2 = 1.56x as much power [not energy] as a 14.4v battery, other things being equal.

$206/$196 is 1.05, which is less than 1.56, so purely on a dollars/watt basis the 18v is better.

If you have several models[because brand name reputation is worth money], voltages and prices, putting this data on a speadsheet and using the graphing function will turn up all kinds of interesting results. 

You can bet the manu's have already done this, and they are pricing their products accordingly. 

You might find a model with the same power output, priced just-enough-dollars-less so it steals the customers of the higher priced model.

I found this for a $1700 oscilloscope; the cheaper one was $50 less and I bought it. 
The graph made it obvious what pricing strategy the manu's were using.

For this kind of money, I'd spend one or two hours collecting the specs and doing the arithmetic.


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## brian_ (Jul 8, 2008)

Tough call. Torques almost the same, Ridgid weighs slightly more, both 1/2" drills. Dewalt has 2.4ah nicads. The Ridgid comes with the 1.5ah batteries, which could be a problem should you use your drill heavily. On the other hand, they are lithium and maybe someone else can chime in on 1.5ah lion batteries vs Dewalts 14.4v nicad. The Dewalt XRP series is a proven winner, even in the 14.4v model. I have a 14.4v Milwaukee 1/2 drill that has always pulled its weight. I've drilled some serious holes in lots of material. However, I use an impact driver for driving most of my fasteners so I've never really put it to the test in that regard.

I would lean towards the Ridgid. Combine the higher power of the 18V, plus the supposed better performance of the lithium batteries and the lifetime battery deal it makes the 18V ridgid drill a better long-term deal should you decide to expand your cordless capabilities as Ridgid does have a good selection of 18V tools.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

brian_ said:


> Dewalt has 2.4ah nicads. The Ridgid comes with the 1.5ah batteries


Knowing what batteries are being used makes a difference.
18.0v at 1.5 a = 27w = $7.60/w
14.4v at 2.4 a = 35w = $5.60/w

18.0v x 1.5 a-h = 27 w-h for $206 = $7.60/w-h
14.4v x 2.4 a-h = 37 w-h for $196 = $5.30/w-h

So with dewalt you get more energy and possibly more power and you pay less for each w and each w-h [but factor in the cost of replacement batteries]. 
Maybe Ridgid is banking on the word "lithium."

Nicads are well-known, including their Memory Effect, but lithium is the latest and greatest [but not as proven as Nicads].

This gets interesting.
:whistling2:


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## brian_ (Jul 8, 2008)

Not that I'm a big Ridgid fan, but in their defense I don't think they are banking on the word "lithium." All the major players are moving towards lithium with Makita, Milwaukee, Hitachi and Bosch already having products out there for some time and Dewalt has begun to sell their "nano" technology lithium ion batteries. The li-ion supposedly has a longer lifetime than the ni-cads, they don't suffer from memory effect like you mentioned, they are lighter than their ni-cad counterparts. The only lithium tools I own are two Bosch 10.8v drivers (ps10 and ps20). Tough for me to compare to a 18v or 14.4 full size drill.

Not trying to confuse you more!!!


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## scottrob (Jul 28, 2008)

*clarification on a-h*

I called Ridgid and they said that the 18v lithium battery that comes with the compact drill is 2.4 a-h, not 1.5.

I guess I'm not feeling like I have my question answered.

Is the Ridgid drill good enough and with the free battery replacement, is that rationale enough to go over the Dewalt 14.4 XRP? Is the battery and drill technology changing so much that I should just choose a cheap drill knowing the battery will die and I need to completely replace the set?

I like the dewalt the best when I use them - no question...but the Ridgid seemed to perform well. So this battery thing comes heavy into my thought process.


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## brian_ (Jul 8, 2008)

not trying to start an argument - straight from the HD website:


RIDGID Lithium Compact Drill Driver 
Model R86006 
$187.00/EA Each
1.5 Amps high capacity lithium-ion batteries. 1/2" Single sleeve locking chuck. 2-speed transmission right power to complete the job. 24 position clutch finer adjusment and repeatability.


1.5 Amps high capacity lithium-ion batteries.
1/2" Single sleeve locking chuck
2-speed transmission right power to complete the job
24 position clutch finer adjusment and repeatability
MFG Brand Name : RIDGID
MFG Model # : R86006
MFG Part # : R86006


I assumed based on the price this is the one you were referring to.

But, if they are 2.5 ah batteries, then definitely go with the Ridgid. You will have more flexibility if you decide you want to add a saw or other tool in the future.


Ridgid tools are "good enough" to answer one of your questions. A lot of the debate over cordless tools is brand loyalty. You'll have Makita guys, Milwaukee guys, Dewalt guys, etc...(wait until you run into a Festool guy!!!). Overall, the Ridgid line of tools is designed to be pro-grade, whether or not it lives up to it is for the masses to debate. I only own two Ridgid stationary tools and have been extremely pleased with both.

the free battery replacement is nothing but a positive (make sure you read the fine print from some things I've read - you have to register the product, save receipts, etc!!!).


And if when you use it you are hard on it like your original post says, stay away from cheap with one exception - If you can find a deal on a Ryobi go for it, especially if you can find a way to get a lithium ion battery and charger. My dad has a Ryobi 18v drill that is probably 6 years old now and I bought him the lithium ion upgrade kit for his b-day this past year and he loves it. He is rough on tools, uses them hard and swears by his Ryobi cordless tools. Over the years he has added a jigsaw, laminate trimmer, circular saw, impact driver and vacuum by getting the "plus one" bare tools at HD during sales.


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## scottrob (Jul 28, 2008)

Yeah - I saw the 1.5 a-h. I have no clue what is right.

Let's say it is 1.5 -what does that mean to me? It was strong driving, again...just lighter so I had to use more elbow grease in terms of pressure.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

*Speak of the devil*

The current issue of Electronic Design has an article that talks about Dewalt's DC9360 nanophosphate battery packs in a series-parallel configuration. 

Seems the author took apart a DC900 drill and figured out how it worked, then he used the same kind of batteries to power a bike at 25 mph for 700 mi (recharge every 11 miles).

I'm glad somebody's having fun.

:thumbsup:


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## CareBear (Nov 3, 2007)

This thing will beat both of your proposed drills in both power (18v / 3.0 Ah) and price ($189): http://www.toolbarn.com/product/hitachi/DS18DMR/

It happens to also be Consumer Reports' top rated drill. I've used it for a couple years now.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

I think Carebear wins, unless someone comes up with a nuclear-powered hand-held drill.

Here's your prize; I hope you like "Popera".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLKXxzVqTY&feature=related


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

I think one thing to consider is, what other tools are you looking at in the future, and if they are going to be battery operated. I would like to change my drills, but all my tools are 18 volt dewalts, so, I keep buying them.


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## scottrob (Jul 28, 2008)

So - I confirmed that you are correct - it appears the initial rep from Ridgid told me wrong - it is the 1.5 a-h battery with the unit.

Still not sure what that means to me wrt this specific drill.

If I'm going to go with a drill that I can count on and not care about the battery replacement costs, then Dewalt is what I would use. Is the battery replacement really a factor I should be focusing on?

I do not see myself getting other battery tools - they will be corded.

I still have a table saw and compound miter saw to buy, so paying $200 for a drill is painful - just want to make sure I do that right.


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## CareBear (Nov 3, 2007)

Why worry about batteries so much when you can get more powerful batteries cheaper at places like this: http://www.batterybank.net/digital/powertools/

You can get batteries that are significantly more powerful but half the cost or less.


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## brian_ (Jul 8, 2008)

scottrob said:


> So - I confirmed that you are correct - it appears the initial rep from Ridgid told me wrong - it is the 1.5 a-h battery with the unit.
> 
> Still not sure what that means to me wrt this specific drill.
> 
> ...


Basically the ah rating for a battery can be used to determine its run time. A 1.5ah battery will drain quicker than a 2.5ah battery. How quick it drains is a function of the tool being used, manner it is used, temperature, etc.


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## scottrob (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks all - I made my decision. I'm going with the Dewalt DC930ka 14.4 volt XRP. 

It feels better, seems more rugged, and the batteries look to be cheaper to replace over time (if you're not going with the Ridgid lifetime stuff).

I read up on the Hitachi and it seemed that people had issues with it being rugged enough - at least the model indicated above. Thanks.


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## bill_delong (May 6, 2009)

*Ridgid offers Lifetime Warranty, including batteries!*

I know this is probably too late of a response for most, but I made sure to register my 14.4V RIDGID Drill/Impact Driver combo pack when I bought it in 2004. There was some fine print that "all the contents of the combo" were covered under a lifetime warranty. Sure enough, both batteries began to lose their effectiveness in 2008 and I was able to send in both packs for free replacement. Although I had to wait about 4 weeks for the replacement packs, I decided to buy another 14.4V pack simply because they were being phased out. As luck will have it, RIDGID sent me two 18V packs for the replacement. Unfortunately, I had to break out my dremel and slightly re-shape each battery pack to get them to fit in my drills and haven't had any problems running a higher voltage; in fact, I think the batteries last a little longer between charges now. 

Anyway, I think others should consider this very important factor when buying a tool that will be expected to last a lifetime! You simply can't beat getting lifetime free replacement of batteries, with no shipping costs if you have a local service center.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

18v vs. 14.4v gives (18/14.4)² = 1.6x the power, other things being equal.
2 A-h gives twice the operating time that 1 A-h gives, other things being equal.

If you can get the data, you can figure out how many cents per watt, per watthour and per inch-pound of torque you are paying. If one drill is better on all three, and sometimes that happens, then the choice is easy.

Reliability numbers are hard to come by, but a drill motor that runs 10°C hotter than another will have half the life.


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## bill_delong (May 6, 2009)

Yoyizit,

I appreciate that you're trying to bring real numbers into the equation, however one must keep in mind that the most important number to consider is how much $$$ one will spend on the use of their drill over a lifetime. 

Since RIDGID offers a lifetime warranty on their product(s) the cost is fixed at the original purchase price. Other manufactures who may not offer free replacements for their batteries will introduce a variable cost that must be added as battery packs need replacement. 

Personally, I like the fixed cost model and so far my RIDGID drills have been standing the test of time for 5 years now. I know you mentioned that the additional voltage may shorten the life of the motor, but once again, since I have a lifetime warranty, that factor does not concern me.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

bill_delong said:


> Since RIDGID offers a lifetime warranty on their product(s) the cost is fixed at the original purchase price. Other manufactures who may not offer free replacements for their batteries will introduce a variable cost that must be added as battery packs need replacement.


How much more does Ridgid ask for their drills over comparable drills by other brands? Some of that money would be covering the cost of the lifetime warranty. Just curious; I have all corded drills.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Costco sells dewalt - And you can always return things to them. I've put two HARD years on my Dewalt 18V set and it takes a lickin and keeps on ticking. 

My Dad likes the 14.4V dewalt because the batteries don't last as long and he can take more frequent breaks. :laughing:

Concerns: dewalt hasn't gotten on the LiPo bandwagon. But then again, I haven't had a problem with my batteries.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Leah Frances said:


> Costco sells dewalt - And you can always return things to them. I've put two HARD years on my Dewalt 18V set and it takes a lickin and keeps on ticking.
> 
> My Dad likes the 14.4V dewalt because the batteries don't last as long and he can take more frequent breaks. :laughing:
> 
> Concerns: dewalt hasn't gotten on the LiPo bandwagon. But then again, I haven't had a problem with my batteries.


From Wiki
"
With a relatively low internal resistance, a NiCd battery can supply high surge currents.
Recently, nickel-metal hydride (Ni-MH) and lithium-ion batteries (Li-ion) have become more commercially available and cheaper, the former type now rivaling NiCds in cost. Where energy density is important, Ni-Cds batteries are now at a distinct disadvantage over Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries. 

[Nicads] are more difficult to damage than other batteries,. . .this is in contrast, for example, to lithium ion batteries, which are highly volatile and will be permanently damaged if discharged below a minimum voltage. In addition, NiCd batteries typically last longer, in terms of number of charge/discharge cycles, than other rechargeable batteries,
"


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

I especially like the audio of boys giggling. Mostly, LiPo fires are reported in the RC car world.


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## bill_delong (May 6, 2009)

I bought my combo set for $188 back in 2004. It included 2 14.4V NiCd battery packs, a universal charger, a 3/8" keyless drill and an impact driver. That price came out to just a few bucks more than a cheap Ryobi that I was considering at the time. Yes it was a little more expensive up front, but then I started saving money 4 years later when I got my first set of free replacement battery packs which cost about $50 each. I can't begin to imagine how much more money I will save in the many years ahead as I go through additional battery packs!

Seriously, it's a no-brainer to buy a reputable brand that offers lifetime warranties on their products. On the other hand, if I need to buy a tool that will see occasional use, then I will buy from Harbor Freight, I can usually buy a tool there for what it would cost to rent the same tool for a few days at Home Depot. 

Oh and the trick with Harbor Freight is to only buy their 4 year warranty on the high dollar items. Then you simply exchange the tool for a new one every 4 years and re-purchase another 4 year warranty. They remanufacture the tool and everyone is a winner! You just have to remember to exchange the tool BEFORE your warranty expires or you're S.O.L. 

The way I keep track of all my tools that have warranties on them, is by placing a piece of masking tape on them and write the EXPIRATION DATE on it with a permanent marker so I know when to exchange the tool. 

There have been several tools already that I replaced with an even higher quality since the older model was no longer manufactured, now who can complain with that system?!?


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## bill_delong (May 6, 2009)

BTW, my replacement packs came in NiMh format and supposedly have a much higher capacity than the original NiCd's that came with my drills. I think they went from 0.8Ah to 1.5Ah. I can only assume that my next replacement packs will be 4.5Ah as that seems to be the new standard for SC's these days.


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

Ridgid doesn't use NiMh batteries. They only have NiCd and Li batteries. Their compact NiCd batteries are 1.3Ah I think. 

The standard Ridgid charger is not set up for NiMh batteries either. The old ones just charged NiCd, and the newer ones do both the NiCd and the Li batteries.

With the NiCd batteries the charger looks for a drop in voltage to detect the end of the charge cycle. With NiMh batteries this is less pronounced, and may not be detected. Charging NiMh batteries on the charger would have one less level of safety.

NiMh batteries do have a higher capacity than NiCd, but there are problems with them. They lose charge quicker than NiCd while sitting on the shelf, and do not work in cold temperatures.


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## bill_delong (May 6, 2009)

Highlander,

You are absolutely correct. The 14.4V pack that I bought on clearance was model # 130254008 which has 2.5Ah and it shocked me to learn that they could get that much capacity out of a NiCd. The 18V packs that I got under warranty were model # 130252004 and they only have 1.25Ah. Surprisingly, the 18V packs seem to last a little longer than the 14.4 pack per charge, but I'm sure someone here will crunch the numbers to determine if that's accurate or not. I haven't done any lab testing, it just seems to work out that way when I'm driving a lot of screws... perhaps the motor doesn't have to work as hard with the extra voltage?


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## Highlander (Mar 2, 2009)

The 14.4 volt 2.5 Ah battery pack should run considerably longer. Power (or work done by the tool) is measured in Watts. Watts = Volts x Amps. If both packs were new and freshly charged, I would expect you to be able to get at least 50% more work out of the 14.4 volt pack. Over time NiCd batteries seem to lose charge quicker while sitting on the shelf, and this might be the effect that you are seeing.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Highlander said:


> The 14.4 volt 2.5 Ah battery pack should run considerably longer.


= 36 watt-hours.
18/1.25 = ~23 watt-hours.


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