# Deck Ledger Board with No Rim Joist



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Yes, you have more to do, that board against the house is the band board and is considered siding. It should be removed so the ledger can go against the rim so the flashing can go behind the house wrap. 

If you do that the ledger will also be tight to the concrete so you could use anchor bolts to the concrete. some times you can just go with the wider ledger to allow you to get low enough to use anchor bolts. Or you open the wall in the garage so you can put some solid blocking in there.


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## tdew2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I wonder if I may have an even bigger issue. It seems that where the ledger is attached, it's probably below where the rim joist is - and that goes for the entire deck. I went into the basement where I could see the floor joists and the bottom of those joists are right at the top of where the ledger board is. I can't see behind the drywall in the basement, so hard to tell what they did. Any guesses? Another pic attached for context - shows other side of the deck.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You have some into the header over the door and the other might be into the double top plate, some times if you do this before the basement is finished you install a stud on the flat inside to take a lag bolt. They don't look like they were a problem so something in there must be right or close to it.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Glad you've decided to look at it all, and it paid off by finding a lot of other stuff that's compromised besides that one long rotted beam. I doubt any of the ledger was attached through to the studs, and would doubt any of us could do it consistently over that much wall length. Besides, who knows what electrical or plumbing is running through them. Lucky if that one spot may have hit the basement header, but there are definitely not enough bolts holding the ledger. 

Does your redo involve raising the framing to walk out without a step down and then also have the ledger hit the rim board?


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## tdew2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> You have some into the header over the door and the other might be into the double top plate, some times if you do this before the basement is finished you install a stud on the flat inside to take a lag bolt. They don't look like they were a problem so something in there must be right or close to it.


I believe you are correct re that section of the deck. It explains why there were lag bolts in that section where the header would be, but no lag bolts in the small portion adjacent to the header. Where there are no lag bolts, there are nails instead. The entire section of ledger that is holding up the walkway is nailed -- no lag bolts. There are two windows - one actual and the other just framed but sided over - that would have headers in that area as well.



3onthetree said:


> Glad you've decided to look at it all, and it paid off by finding a lot of other stuff that's compromised besides that one long rotted beam. I doubt any of the ledger was attached through to the studs, and would doubt any of us could do it consistently over that much wall length. Besides, who knows what electrical or plumbing is running through them. Lucky if that one spot may have hit the basement header, but there are definitely not enough bolts holding the ledger.
> 
> Does your redo involve raising the framing to walk out without a step down and then also have the ledger hit the rim board?


Once I decided to replace the beam and took a good look at the joists, it didn't make sense not to replace them, too. And of course all along the way I've discovered issues as you mention. 

Re raising the framing -- I've read that in high snow areas, decks are intentionally framed lower? The header section does span a significant (around 70%) chunk of that section of the deck so perhaps that's enough? I've looked at two other decks in the area and both were as low as mine. If only I could see through the walls!

That said, I have taken off the ledger and the band board ref'd in the original post above. Below the door and behind the band board (and house wrap) I found water damage and a section of apparent carpenter ant damage to the 3/4" sheathing. I assume the next step is pulling apart the trim around the door and addressing any flashing issues before moving forward? I sure hope the snow comes late this year!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The height of the deck with one step below the floor level is correct


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Confirm the direction of the floor joist before removing any rim joist. If the joists are running in the same direction as the rim joist, we change the rim in short chunks so the wall and floor do not sag.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

Best long term solution is to add footings and posts to support a beam running 18" from the side of the house. The extra cost is for a small amount of concrete and the 4x6 posts and the beam. 

Ledger failures is the number one reason for deck failures and it is difficult to avoid moisture and dry rot and termites where the ledger attaches to the house. 

With my own deck the height above grade varied from 2 feet to 10 feet as it wrapped around the house which is on a steeply sloping hill. I added the additional supports and used a beam instead of ledgers and some knee and cross bracing and the deck is rock solid. I also left a 1 inch gap and then ran the decking to within 1/4 inch of the house and then installed flashing so even when washing the deck there is no water that can get to the sides of the house.


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## tdew2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Calson said:


> Best long term solution is to add footings and posts to support a beam running 18" from the side of the house. The extra cost is for a small amount of concrete and the 4x6 posts and the beam.
> 
> Ledger failures is the number one reason for deck failures and it is difficult to avoid moisture and dry rot and termites where the ledger attaches to the house.
> 
> With my own deck the height above grade varied from 2 feet to 10 feet as it wrapped around the house which is on a steeply sloping hill. I added the additional supports and used a beam instead of ledgers and some knee and cross bracing and the deck is rock solid. I also left a 1 inch gap and then ran the decking to within 1/4 inch of the house and then installed flashing so even when washing the deck there is no water that can get to the sides of the house.



I've built a freestanding deck in the past and with the proper bracing it was rock solid. I'm still leaning toward a ledger board but as I discover what's behind the existing ledger board, I do appreciate the sentiment.


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## tdew2 (Aug 22, 2018)

tdew2 said:


> I've built a freestanding deck in the past and with the proper bracing it was rock solid. I'm still leaning toward a ledger board but as I discover what's behind the existing ledger board, I do appreciate the sentiment.



Btw, has anyone discovered a good method to remove existing ice & water shield? I've found older threads addressing the issue and it didn't look like there were any "easy" ways to go about it.


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