# recessed light box - no ground



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

The ground wire will be inside the j box on the side of the recessed can.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

so i need to remove the recessed can and look for the junction box and wire the track light ground wire?

can i connect the track light ground wire to anywhere in the recessed can?

or can i just not connect the ground wire of track light?


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## BlueBSH (Oct 29, 2009)

pull the three screws on the recessed can dome, that will let you drop the dome out, and behind it is a junction box


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## BlueBSH (Oct 29, 2009)

I'd also check the gauge of the wire in the can light if you plan on using that as a connection point, the devices are usually designed to handle 75-100 watts at most, they might not even have 14 gauge wires to the sockets... not sure if they ever used smaller gauge wire for that or not


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

Can I not wire the ground wire?


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## BlueBSH (Oct 29, 2009)

dumbengineer said:


> Can I not wire the ground wire?


I wouldn't wire a ground to the housing, I'd go straight back to the junction box that is inside the housing... in theory you could tap a screw into the housing since it is grounded... but that is kind of the half assed way of doing this...


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Is there an attic above so you can get to the juntion box?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You could remove the recessed housing and wire into the track end feed. All the connections will be in one spot.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

so the half-ass way is to tape using electrical tape the ground wire to the recessed can housing. this is ok right. 

i'm having a difficult time removing the recessed can/dome. even if i could, it will be difficult to open the junction box and wire correctly as the ceiling hole is too tight and it would be too dark to see the wiring.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

also what is this connection? this is located on the side of recessed can. does this do anyting special? or this is also the same as wire connector.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

No, you can not electrical tape your ground wire to the can. 
The "connector" you are wondering about is a thermocouple. It is designed to shut the can light off if it overheats.

Rip the can out. Install a ceiling box. Repair sheet rock, if necessary. Wire your trak light properly.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

dumbengineer said:


> also what is this connection? this is located on the side of recessed can. does this do anyting special? or this is also the same as wire connector.


That is the thermal overload for the recessed fixture. looks like you have already cut it out.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The junction box cover will remove by lifting a spring tab.

You can place a flashlight in the hole to see.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> The junction box cover will remove by lifting a spring tab.
> 
> You can place a flashlight in the hole to see.


but the recessed can is grounded, right? and i can tape the grounding wire of tracklight to the recessed can, right?

i'm not saying that's the proper way but it can be done like that, right?


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

based on this recessed ligth adapter, i can wire the ground to the recessed can.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

*If light fixture don't have ground, can circuit breaker trip?*

If light fixture doesn't have ground or ground came loose or wasn't wired correctly, can circuit breaker still trip in case of overload?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The ground is for a short circuit or a fault. 

The breaker will trip on overload without a ground.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Even though the breaker may still trip it still may be VERY dangerous. 

WHY are you asking this?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Speedy Petey said:


> Even though the breaker may still trip it still may be VERY dangerous.
> 
> WHY are you asking this?


http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/recessed-light-box-no-ground-173915/

This!


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

So then this thread is a duplicate of the other.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Speedy Petey said:


> So then this thread is a duplicate of the other.


OK, I get it now. He was not liking the answers in the other thread so he started this one hoping for more favorable ones. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

dumbengineer said:


> based on this recessed ligth adapter, i can wire the ground to the recessed can.


That adapter kit is out the window now. You cut the wires, removed the socket and thermal overload.

REMOVE the can, install a fixture box, patch the ceiling and install your track.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> OK, I get it now. He was not liking the answers in the other thread so he started this one hoping for more favorable ones. :whistling2:


Isn't that the logical thing to do? lol...


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

stickboy1375 said:


> Isn't that the logical thing to do? lol...


Not the first time, nor will it be the last!:jester:


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

jbfan said:


> Not the first time, nor will it be the last!:jester:


It does seem to be the MO for this type of situation... :-/


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## Toller (Jan 2, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> OK, I get it now. He was not liking the answers in the other thread so he started this one hoping for more favorable ones. :whistling2:


He probably should have asked this IN the other thread, but it wasn't covered there, so he is asking. I didn't read the other thread very carefully, but I expect he can't figure out how to access the ground and wants to make sure the breaker will still work if he blows it off. Not a big deal.

The bigger issue is whether he should be doing electrical work if he has to ask a question like this. There isn't much that is more basic.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

He wants to tape the ground to the shell of the can.


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## sirsparksalot (Oct 16, 2010)

dumbengineer said:


> but the recessed can is grounded, right? and i can tape the grounding wire of tracklight to the recessed can, right?
> 
> i'm not saying that's the proper way but it can be done like that, right?


You can wrap it around a clothes hanger and nail it to the stud, if you want, and you can turn the can upside down if you want. 

If you want it to work right, go with the advice you've requested. 

My advise is to leave it alone.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

It's a bit confusing, but the two threads were merged.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

Is the recessed can grounded? Yes or no?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Read post #2


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

k_buz said:


> He wants to tape the ground to the shell of the can.


Yes. I taped it with lots of electric tape. It won't come loose. Recessed can shell is grounded, right?


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

jbfan said:


> Read post #2


My question was is recessed can shell grounded or not?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Tape is no way to assure the ground wire has good enough contact to ground a fixture.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

Your screen-name says it all. Taped the ground wire to the can. Sheesh.

Mark


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

Funny nobody wants to answer if can shell is grounded or not. I wonder why.


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

busman said:


> Your screen-name says it all. Taped the ground wire to the can. Sheesh.
> 
> Mark


:laughing:


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You have been told several times in this thread that what you did is wrong and it not considered grounded.

Why are you making this so hard?


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

How could we possibly know whether the can is grounded? We haven't tested it.

Regardless, you can't use that as the EGC.

Mark


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## dumbengineer (Aug 15, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> You have been told several times in this thread that what you did is wrong and it not considered grounded.
> 
> Why are you making this so hard?


Ok. I told you I can't access the junction box. I can't rip the can shell - maybe i can but I won't be able to return it. Also i dont know how to patch the ceiling dry wall if I rip the can.

I know it's not proper to tape the ground to the can. I'm trying to improvise.

I just don't understand why I can bolt ground wire to can shell but I can't tape it. As I said I'm trying to improvise. 

Anyway, thanks.


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## al_smelter (Feb 15, 2013)

You cannot expect a professional to give "improvise" advice. The reason one comes to these boards is to find out how to do things CORRECTLY to make it SAFE. You have been given advice on how to do things CORRECTLY to make it SAFE. If you choose to do things any other way, you are simply on your own. No professional will bless what you did and the way you did it.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

If you need a reason (other than code requirements), although I doubt you'll listen to it. The reason is that the fault current for a short circuit on that circuit is probably around 200-300 amps for a bolted fault. The OCPD won't trip until at least 15A. Based on the trip curve for that CB, it probably needs at least 30A for a few minutes or at least 100A for magnetic trip. Do you think your tape job will be good for 100A. Even 30A.

That's the reason.

Mark


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## Dierte (Jan 23, 2011)

Anyone else smell a troll?


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

No, the can is NOT grounded.

Even if it were simply taping it to the can would not be even close to a good connection. 

SHEESH!! LISTEN TO THE FOLKS HERE!!! They know what they are talking about!


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## mech_gui (Mar 9, 2013)

Im new to this forum....I feel dumber form reading this... how you guys do this diy help thing sheesh!


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## OmegaWS6 (Sep 25, 2012)

I can't wait to hear how this guy mounts the track light to this can... can you say Gorilla Glue?


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