# Stud right where light box needs to go..



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering, not sure if it's a local code thing or not, if a non-load bearing stud can be notched for a light box on a wall? I'm trying to center a lamp right over the middle of a sink, and unfortunately, there is a stud right there. SO I was wondering if it's ok to notch it enough to put the box basically in the stud? I know there are those pancake boxes, but would rather not do that. I can/will sister the stud just in case...
> 
> ...


Whats wrong with a pancake box?


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

Nothing I suppose... I think you're only suppose to have the fixture and one set of 14g wires coming in right? My original plan was to have the power enter this fixture, and then go to the next and then to the switch, so I"d have to rearrange that... plus feeding the fixture first, so that would be 3 14g, plus the fixture wires....is that not too much even if I did change my plan?


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> Nothing I suppose... I think you're only suppose to have the fixture and one set of 14g wires coming in right? My original plan was to have the power enter this fixture, and then go to the next and then to the switch, so I"d have to rearrange that... plus feeding the fixture first, so that would be 3 14g, plus the fixture wires....is that not too much even if I did change my plan?


I would keep it to one 14-2 , just change the wiring plan.


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

So with a pancake box, I don't notch the stud at all? It's meant to just go the drywall depth right?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Move the stud.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> So with a pancake box, I don't notch the stud at all? It's meant to just go the drywall depth right?


Yes. Thats correct.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

brric said:


> Move the stud.


Maybe an option.


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks Stickboy, thanks Brric.

Moving the stud... is difficult. THere is an intact room on the other side of the bathroom. So the plaster wall on the opposite side is still attached! 

I'm guessing both of you think notching the stud is a *bad* idea? The pancake box might be promising....


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> Thanks Stickboy, thanks Brric.
> 
> Moving the stud... is difficult. THere is an intact room on the other side of the bathroom. So the plaster wall on the opposite side is still attached!
> 
> I'm guessing both of you think notching the stud is a *bad* idea? The pancake box might be promising....


I've notched my share of studs before, dont get me wrong, I just try to avoid it when possible.


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

CharlieR said:


> I'm guessing both of you think notching the stud is a *bad* idea? The pancake box might be promising....


I'd notch the stud if a pancake box didn't work for some reason. For a nonstructural wall it's no big deal.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Two inches to the right or left is not going to matter.


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

thanks mpoulton

gregzoll... are you saying appearance wise? Or functionality wise, aka, the plate will cover it?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

We use pancakes all the time, much more often than I'd like. Personally if it was up to me and time is no iissue, I'd prefer to notch the stud.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Two inches to the right or left is not going to matter.


sure it will... why do you think it won't?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

CharlieR said:


> thanks mpoulton
> 
> gregzoll... are you saying appearance wise? Or functionality wise, aka, the plate will cover it?


Both. Use a Old work or a "Smart" box. No one will notice that it is a little to the left or right.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Both. Use a Old work or a "Smart" box. No one will notice that it is a little to the left or right.


In your opinion, maybe... but that would never fly with me... I would see it in a heart beat.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to center a lamp right over the middle of a sink,
> 
> ...


2" in either direction of center WILL be obvious to the eye.
Notch the stud. Put some side support studs in if your concerned about load.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Sbulime, no 2" will not be noticeable when it comes down to it. As for the pancake boxes, they make them so that you do not have to notch out the stud, you just have to cut the drywall to be able to secure the straps to both sides of the stud.


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Sbulime, no 2" will not be noticeable when it comes down to it.


Good luck with that... lol...


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## notmrjohn (Aug 20, 2012)

Electricians are always notching studs that I put in. Some, note, gentlemen, I said "*some*", have no idea if it is load bearing or not, or how much they can cut out. At least they're not as crazy as some plumbers, who will cut out an entire section of stud to run a 3" line.

If you are *absolutely* sure this is non load bearing, ( and I should ask how you know it is not load bearing before I continue) there should be no problem in notching it. As long as you do not notch deeper than 40% of stud. In a 2x4 that's 1 7/16". And notch should be as low as possible.

Occasionally a stud will warp or bend if notched because of they way wood fibers of grain run and inter-mesh. If the wall is open on this side, you said you could sister the stud so I assume it is, it would be best to put in a new or couple of new studs on each side of notched one, rather than notched sisters.


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks notmrjohn,

I guess I don't know 100% that it is not load bearing. It runs perpendicular to an outside (obviously load bearing) and an interior non load bearing hallway wall. I assume the hallway is not load bearing becuase the otherside of the hallway appears to be, becuase it runs down through the house all the way to the basement on what I believe are load bearing walls. Now, there are several of these perpendicular walls, in each of the rooms along the hallway. Only two of them have walls on the main floor beneath. Is it safe to assume then that bathroom wall is not load bearing since there isn't anything underneath it? 

Im ok with adding studs on either side as well. Other than having to run piping through them!


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

I have used this fan rated box for wall mounted fixtures:










It has 13.5 cu in and will allow the use of (2) 12-2 cables. It installs just like a pancake with no cutting of the stud required.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Sbulime, no 2" will not be noticeable when it comes down to it. As for the pancake boxes, they make them so that you do not have to notch out the stud, you just have to cut the drywall to be able to secure the straps to both sides of the stud.


Maybe not in your bathroom .......
What if the wall he's dealing with is say, 20" in width?
You will see it.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

In my bath, our fixture is offset, and when you look at it, you cannot tell, unless you really look hard.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I haven't run into RJ's box before.
But a similar idea is a fan rated saddle box.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...4ECF3393E9F159C16A7D26EC46EE3175AB5C4&first=1

Far simpler then notching.


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## Rochsolid (Aug 29, 2012)

CharlieR said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering, not sure if it's a local code thing or not, if a non-load bearing stud can be notched for a light box on a wall? I'm trying to center a lamp right over the middle of a sink, and unfortunately, there is a stud right there. SO I was wondering if it's ok to notch it enough to put the box basically in the stud? I know there are those pancake boxes, but would rather not do that. I can/will sister the stud just in case...
> 
> ...


Depends on what type of light you ate installing. I you are using a light where there is a mounting plate (the length of your fixture) you can mark your centre mark on your mounting plate and drill a hole through the plate and put a plastic bushing in it and mount your fixture with toggle bolts


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

The problem with a pancake is they are only 6 cu in, enough for a single 14-2. If you have a single 20 amp circuit for the bath (lights and recept), you can not connect a single 12-2 to a pancake (and meet code).


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

joecaption said:


> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...4ECF3393E9F159C16A7D26EC46EE3175AB5C4&first=1
> 
> Far simpler then notching.


Joe,

That pancake with an internal clamp will not even allow a single 14-2 and meet box fill.


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

rjniles and oso954, those are interesting boxes... I wonder if those are code up here in Ontario, as I was planning on getting it inspected even though I was doing it myself. Thats actually a neat idea. 

I have a 14g circuit for the lights and bath fan, and a 14g for the recepticals. SOooo I could change my wiring plan to make use of the pancake. 

THanks for everyone's input, this site is great!


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

How close to the edge of the stud is center?


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

Unfortunately, it's almost dead center on the stud. I can shift left or right a bit based on moving the vanity a bit in either direction.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If you can move the vanity that is fine. Easier to do that, than move a stud. Persoanlly the pancake box is going to be te quickest and easiset solution.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

CharlieR said:


> Unfortunately, it's almost dead center on the stud. I can shift left or right a bit based on moving the vanity a bit in either direction.


Nail a new stud along side of the existing stud then notch the existing stud and install box on the new stud right where the notch is.


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## patented (Aug 1, 2012)

electures said:


> Nail a new stud along side of the existing stud then notch the existing stud and install box on the new stud right where the notch is.


If the space isnt finished, this would clearly be the answer. I think the space is finished already though.


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## Mule98 (Sep 1, 2012)

they make a ceiling box that will stradle a stud


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Mule98 said:


> they make a ceiling box that will stradle a stud


AKA,A pancake box.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

patented said:


> If the space isnt finished, this would clearly be the answer. I think the space is finished already though.


Good point. ANy of the options offered by some of the other profressionals is clearly better then having it off center by two inches. In a 20" space, 2" would stand out like a sore thumb and scream "an amature did this".


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

There is no question. Install the stud straddling box and have it centered.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Mule98 said:


> they make a ceiling box that will stradle a stud


Two styles are shown in post #23 and 26.


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

CharlieR said:


> Unfortunately, it's almost dead center on the stud. I can shift left or right a bit based on moving the vanity a bit in either direction.


Then use the box pictures in post#26 and be done with it.


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## notmrjohn (Aug 20, 2012)

Don't assume a wall is load bearing or not by its direction or what is directly under a portion of it. It may support or be supported by joists or beams running perpendicular to it, soemtimes at some distance from where you are working, the entire wall is integrated, relying on each part to transfer load.

If twere me, and wall is open I would put in new studs a few inches to each side, so they're out of the way, no sistering,they're like 3 bucks a piece, and notch and leave in place the old one, you may need it there for wall board joint or hanging vanity and extra studs can help there too. But are any of these studs going to interfere with plumbing?

Even if you're a quarter inch off center, and you're the one who put it there, you're gonna see it every time you're within eye sight of it.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

The saddle box is what you want.

Mark


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## CharlieR (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks notmrJohn and everyone else.

In terms of load bearing, there is definitely no perpendicular support underneath, other than the exterior wall at one end. I guess that still doesn't necessarily mean anything. 
I will sister or add support if I do notch for sure. There is a chance it will interfere with plumbing, as I have vanity plumbing running through that wall. The biggest problem would be the drain, but I can deal with that if must be as I haven't finished that section anyhow. The supply plumbing I'm having another issue with and again, can address that if need be. 

I'll see if I can find one of those saddle boxes, haven't seen them in Ontario before.


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