# Concrete driveway poured 9 inches above garage floor level



## melbedw (Oct 18, 2018)

So we had a licensed contractor out to pour a brand new concrete driveway to replace an existing gravel driveway. The main issue we wanted to solve was water that was running into our garage, which sits slightly lower than the existing gravel driveway (maybe an inch or two). This house was built in 1941 and is a bit quirky.

We do not use the garage to park a car. It's only for storage. The contractor proposed adding a drain to the new driveway in front of the garage and also indicated that he thought the best course of action would be to build the driveway up a bit higher and add a slope toward the drain. Our understanding was that the driveway would be about 2-4 inches higher than the floor of the garage. We trusted his expertise and he moved forward with the job.

The work was done yesterday and we ended up with a driveway that is 9 inches higher than the floor of the garage. We were quite upset with the end result and feel the whole thing should be ripped out and redone. I've attached photos showing the depth of the concrete from inside the garage. What I don't have pictures of at this time (I can take later) is the 6 or so inch gap between the super tall driveway and the garage door, which we fear will just be a place for water to collect and pool in the garage (AGAIN).

We had the contractor back out and he seemed stunned that we were not happy. For now, we're withholding the other half of our payment. Are we crazy? Is this acceptable work? Would this pass an inspection if we tried to sell the house?


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Honestly sounds like something that should have been hashed out better before the job was even started. More questions asked. 



Not knowing all the details its really hard to say. I personally would have did a bunch of grade work if needed to get the fall away from the garage.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

How is the new driveway in relation to the rest of the property? 


I suspect you are going to say it is otherwise fine, and that the root problem is that the garage is too low. Contactor is going to have a good point when he says he is not a miracle worker - if your garage is 10" too low (actually, it looks like more) there is no simple fix. (There are some expensive fixes, but not simple fixes).


Having said that, what he left you with is ridiculous. That is downright dangerous. Only a matter of time before somebody hurts themselves or somebody drives off the cliff. That can't possibly be within code. It would be interesting to see how his quote is worded, but there is an expectation that work be done to a certain level of competence. If he left you with a dangerous situation, I can't see how he met that expectation.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

With a drain there, there was no need to raise the driveway?????????


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

At this point your contract with the contractor is all you really have. What does it specify?

You asked if this would pass inspection. I would call the zoning folks now and ask that question. A licensed contractor will be more willing to work with you if the zoning folks say the work doesn't meet local code.

Looking at this as a prospective home buyer, the garage is pretty much useless for vehicles unless some sort of transition can be made.

How high is the ceiling in the garage from the garage slab?

How deep is the garage?


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

How about a pic facing the garage from about 30 feet back as if you were driving towards it?


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## melbedw (Oct 18, 2018)

On the left side (opposite the garage) the driveway is fairly even with the ground. In my opinion, it's too high most of the length of the right side. It's a 4 or 5 inch step up from the existing walkway. It just seems that SOME sort of grading should have been done, right? 

This is our first major project as homeowners, and we definitely know we should have asked more questions beforehand. To the contractor's credit, he's basically offering to do whatever we want, though we'll see if that's actually the case if we request the whole driveway is ripped out and redone.

The garage is lower than the rest of the house (see photo) but it was in no way my expectation — or what we were explicitly told — that we'd end up with a 9-inch step up from the garage.

Should I ask an inspector to give me an opinion? Or another contractor?


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## melbedw (Oct 18, 2018)

Following up to some posts, this garage is NOT used for cars. I don't know how it ever could have been. Again, an old house built in 1941. We use it for lawn-care storage, bikes, etc. No intention of parking there. I'm not at home — scrounging for photos on my phone. Will try to take some more tonight. Appreciate the feedback!


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. Completely unacceptable.
Absolutely no way a homeowner should be expected to have foreseen and 
avoided this crazy, completely unpredictable, outcome. 
WTF was he thinking? 
If he isn't ripping it out and replacing immediately, call a lawyer and send 
pics to local newspaper.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Again, what does the contract say?

Visually it appears they did a nice job on the concrete.

No permits required for a driveway in your area?

Call the local zoning authority, have them come out to do an on site inspection to see if this will be an issue when you go to sell the home.

At that point you'll know where you stand. Until then you are just guessing.

Good luck.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

CodeMatters said:


> Absolutely no way a homeowner should be expected to have foreseen and
> avoided this crazy, completely unpredictable, outcome.
> WTF was he thinking?



Sounds like the homeowner was expecting a lip but more along the lines of 2". Thats almost more of a trip hazard than what he ended up with.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

HenryMac said:


> Call the local zoning authority, have them come out to do an on site inspection to see if this will be an issue when you go to sell the home.



Suppose its better to find out now rather than when you go to sell the house. But inspector is unlikely to get involved in civil matter --- just point out that homeowner needs to fix it. Not sure specifically what code it would break, but looks dangerous to me.


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

This is worthy of posting on failblog.org


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## andr0id (Aug 4, 2018)

While I think details should be hashed out beforehand and explicitly mentioned in the contract, I believe it would absolutely standard practice that doesn't need to be mentioned that a driveway will end up level with the garage floor or up to an inch lower. 



What you've got would require hand rails to even be legal as a porch.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

While it is one of the dumbest things I have seen you did agree to "a few inches higher", also a dumb idea. What is a few inches, is the question.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

joed said:


> While it is one of the dumbest things I have seen you did agree to "a few inches higher", also a dumb idea. What is a few inches, is the question.


Actually ..



melbedw said:


> Our understanding was that the driveway would be about 2-4 inches higher than the floor of the garage. We trusted his expertise and he moved forward with the job.


Details matter... that's why I keep asking what the contract specifies. 

If nothing was documented in the contract, and there are no code violations, the contractor needs to be paid.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Is there enough room to raise the garage slab?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Faced with the huge task of removing the driveway, landscaping, and new install, how about raising the workshop (since it isn't a garage)?

The driveway does look nice, but stupid to be that high without a reason.

Bud


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Raise the floor in the garage. 4.5 inches of crushed stone, 4.5" concrete. Problem solved. You can park in it, and the floor won't get flooded.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Depends how much room he has to the sill plate for the framing. I couldn't raise my floor 2" without being to the drywall.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Yodaman said:


> Raise the floor in the garage. 4.5 inches of crushed stone, 4.5" concrete. Problem solved. You can park in it, and the floor won't get flooded.


Possible, but not probable.

Going to put that aggregate and wet concrete up against drywall or a stud wall? 

What about an existing man door, how's that work?

What about the overhead doors?


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

The bad news is.
This is two different pours.
The first pour was too high.

How could anyone expect another pour to lessen the height.?


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

You need a lawyer an an engineer.
And be prepared for an expensive future.
OR you might be able to get it all ripped out and redone by another contractor but ... you be bettered served with a clear unambiguous contract/scope of work. That might even be cheaper.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Why does he need a lawyer? First of all it sounds like the contractor is receptive to fixing it.


But must importantly from what I gathered in the beginning the homeowner already had conversations that they do not use it as a garage and was expecting it to be higher and unusable as a garage. They were just surprised it was that much higher.


This is not all on the contractor.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yodaman said:


> Raise the floor in the garage. 4.5 inches of crushed stone, 4.5" concrete. Problem solved.


 
Would need to jack up the wooden garage structure (assuming its not bricked), put a row of concrete blocks under the walls, lower the garage back down, and then pour over the old slab. Need to create a step if there is a man-door. Possible (maybe the best solution) but not cheap.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

What I have envisioned is this garage is attached.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

That's about what one gets when the drawing and written agreement is all done with lip movement and finger pointing, followed by more lip movement and more finger pointing ( literally ).:biggrin2:


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

If it's not a "garage" and just basically a "shed" b/c of it's size - what size is it ? - then just pour a ramp into it and be done with it


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## melbedw (Oct 18, 2018)

Following up on what people have said—
- The garage/shed/whatever you want to call it is attached to our house. It's wood-framed, no drywall. The hot water heater is inside.
- The contractor suggested we pour a new concrete floor in the garage to resolve some of the height difference. The manual garage door would have to be moved to accommodate the difference and there's not much room to move it higher, maybe an inch or two. At this point, I don't trust them to do the work and I'm not sure about fixing one problem and potentially creating 5 more problems. 
- The exact wording of the contract was "Form and pour driveway - 3000 PSI with fiber including mesh - broom finish with picture framed edges around joints - build up concrete at garage door with box drain at garage to extend past walkway." There was no mention of exact height. Clearly we should have gotten specifics. BUT my husband went by the day the driveway was framed and poured —*all of this happened in one day —*and was shown the height difference as being 2-4 inches above garage floor. He's 100% sure he was shown one 4x board framed at that time (Forgive me if I'm not using the correct terminology. I'm not a contractor). Later in the day, after the job was done, the framing in the garage was two 4x boards high. Clearly the plan changed and we were not informed. Contractor says he showed my husband 6 inches. Six inches was definitely never spoken aloud because that would have been much higher than we anticipated. And it would have been higher than what my husband could have been shown since only one 4" tall frame board was present. We ended up with 9 inch difference.
- A ramp isn't possible. I've attached more photos for reference.
- Our contractor told us a permit wasn't necessary. Again, this is a licensed contractor, rated with the Better Business Bureau, recommended on Home Advisor/Angie's List. Looking at the permit requirements myself, I'm not totally clear but leaning toward no. It wasn't a new driveway, it was a replacement. And the existing driveway wasn't widened.
- Our plan for now is to wait and see what happens when it rains. The primary purpose of the project was to stop our garage from getting flooded. If rain comes in sideways, it seems like what's been created is a perfect trench for rain to collect and intrude into the garage. 

Appreciate everyone's feedback.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

How tall is your garage door?


Is that concrete right up against your siding? If so that is not good.


I can understand why that would be a tough garage to use. Nice looking house by the way.


If you are never going to use it as a garage you might have some other options. Do you have a riding lawn mower or push mower?


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## melbedw (Oct 18, 2018)

I'd have to measure the garage door. I'm guessing 7ish feet. Pretty sure my husband stands taller than the garage door now when standing on the new driveway, and he's 6'2. 

Yes, the concrete is right up against the siding. Another part of the project that we were not anticipating.

We have a push mower. Not impossible to get out with this new step, but not ideal.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Ok non of it makes any sense to me the slope it to the road what was the drain for.
The driveway just needed to be reshaped first , goofy contractor .


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Without being there its about impossible to know what the grade is and what you have to work with.


Also don't know what was agreed upon but it sounds like there was no concern about some sort of lip before they started the work. I would have never went down this path in the first place but if I was stuck here going forward I would properly convert that room to something else. This would require raising the sill plate as you cant leave concrete against the house like that.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Did you call the zoning folks and have them send out an inspector?

Pouring concrete up against the outside of a building, up against siding, really?

Basically this will all need to be torn out and reworked to meet code.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Op, did the contractor also give you a price for removing the existing gravel drive and lowering the grade, in addition to the price for doing what you ended up with?


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*this is a hilarious thread,,, no one could just make this up*


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## bondra76 (Apr 21, 2016)

Damn. For all that work why not just jackhammer and get the whole driveway to grade? It would have only added on like 2-3 days to the entire job. 

No offense but I’m kind of puzzled - if you were going to go through the whole effort of pouring concrete and a drain and all that, why wouldn’t you have brought it to grade and increased the value of your house? It looks like it was already wonky to start out with but now it’s even worse - as a prospective buyer I’d look at that and want $10,000 off your list price right from the get go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

If you don't expect to use the garage for a car, there is no problem at all. My parents had a driveway poured with a slope into the garage about the same height. I swore that water was going to enter the garage. Not a drop went through the door. If you want the raise the garage floor, go ahead but with that trench drain there, I don't think that it's necessary. Wait for the first heavy rain & make a decision.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Guap0_ said:


> If you don't expect to use the garage for a car, there is no problem at all. ...


:vs_laugh:

It's a garage... regardless of what "you" use it for.

Years later you try to sell the property. You then find out the changes you made don't meet the zoning requirements. Now you have to re-work the non-compliant issues or give the prospective buyer a discount for the work that is non-compliant.


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## viper (Jul 30, 2009)

WOW! Can you say shoddy? 

To be right honest, regardless of any "license", "insurance", "pro status", etc, this is not pro work. How do I know? Because real concrete company would have immediately identified this drainage issue and either been VERY specific on what you would end up with, or, more likely, refuse to do the job until it can be done right! I know I sure as hell would not want my name on that job! I don't care if it magically passes code or not. Sometimes common sense is a real thing! 

First of all, the crete guy should have known he was in over his head and got grade pros in to work this out. 

What should have happened is the crete guys remove the old, and the grade guys go to work solving ALL the drainage issues FIRST. Sometimes you end up with pipe under the crete to drain it, but leaving that step is ridiculous! 

That will certainly pool water and become a problem. I have no idea how it is going to go but I would not fly that at all!


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> You then find out the changes you made don't meet the zoning requirements. Now you have to re-work the non-compliant issues or give the prospective buyer a discount for the work that is non-compliant.


As I said before, my parents had a driveway poured. There was a slope into the garage which I swore was going to allow water enter. No water ever entered. If the drop is not compliant, I bet that a slope would fix it. 

https://www.diychatroom.com/f105/co...ches-above-garage-floor-level-644087/index3/#


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

Guap0_ said:


> As I said before, my parents had a driveway poured. There was a slope into the garage which I swore was going to allow water enter. No water ever entered. If the drop is not compliant, I bet that a slope would fix it.
> 
> https://www.diychatroom.com/f105/co...ches-above-garage-floor-level-644087/index3/#


It probably will however at what cost? It may not matter to the owner at this time but it certainly will when he tries to sell the home.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

There was no problem when my parents' home was sold.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

Guap0_ said:


> There was no problem when my parents' home was sold.


At your parents home was...


concrete poured up against the siding, above the sill plate?

the garage rendered unusable due to a 9" step?


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*place conc against siding IF its properly done - eg, /expansion/isolation jnt, waterproofing, & pest issues
far's i know, 'garage' is generally defined as place to park car under cover,,, doesn't sound as if this is currently a 'garage' unless he's driving a hummer or other off-road vehicle*


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Looks like it would about be impossible to turn a car into that garage unless it was a smart car anyway. 



Narrow drive up against house. Narrow garage door.


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Holmes or Vila would tear the "garage" off and make the house a nice looking ranch; landscape slope from house to drive and rebuild garage at end of driveway


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## Ziggy85 (Oct 23, 2018)

Do these people understand elevations? Sounds like they should have taken out a lot of dirt first


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## patriot (Mar 6, 2008)

Solution...see image.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

patriot said:


> Solution...see image.



Only problem with that is it compounds the wood structure below grade option. That should be the #1 priority at this point.


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## patriot (Mar 6, 2008)

Below grade not issue if water is diverted (slope/drains). They accept that garage is used for storage...like a basement. 100 ways to skin a cat.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Its would be an issue for me and I am positive it wont meet code. From a pest control standpoint its a no-no.


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## patriot (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't see any code violations if concrete is poured properly and steps meet code. This can be done by following codes.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

I am pretty sure it needs to be properly flashed to meet code. Appears from pictures this is not the case.

I am sure in time there will be a gap between concrete and house. Water running down wall will find its way down the gap and you will have soaked wood and potential termite issues.


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## add50317 (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh boy, this is a wreck on the side of the road that you can't take your eyes off of. Sorry you are going through this. I feel your pain. :vs_mad:



They should have torn out existing drive and graded but that time is passed. I did this 2 years ago and the existing drive is feet above garage slab but we sloped it to a trench drain 4 feet in front to garage, over 20 feet.



I would get city code out there about concrete up to shed/siding AND the slope of the drain (confirm slope per feet-so you have info other than the contractors). Find out if the step is even code as well.


Considering you verbally agreed to a lip it is now he said she said. Keep good standing with the contractor if you can. If he is willing to redo at no charge (just the other half of payment agreed on) then I would have him redo path approach, as well as redo garage/shed approach to get rid of the HUGE step. I am not sure where you live but here 9 inches isn't even code for a step. 



Like I said, tear out approach to shed and redo, redo walkway approach.


The trench might save you on rain but the resale will give you a LOT of headache. Get it done correctly now.


You need some expansion foam in between the shed siding and the concrete too.



LMK if you want pics of our concrete, I dont want to put them on here. Like I said it is sloped feet on the side that attaches to existing drive and inches to the side that attached to the garage.


Good luck!


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## mcpascaln (Nov 25, 2016)

I am wondering, how long is your warranty coverage for workmanship? It is a lifetime warranty?


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## BrandonMiller (Jun 19, 2018)

Slope the driveway from the garage DOWN to a slotted drain, then as needed to get to the street. Problem solved. Probably need to remove 10' of that driveway..


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