# Rewiring a whole house



## greengiant

Two questions for the pros:

(1) Approximately how much should it cost to rewire a 1,000 sq ft 1940's lathe and plaster house from 30amp knob and tube to 200amp breaker?

(2) How much is it likely to cost if the work is done in the SF Bay Area?

We bought a house thinking we could have a panel installed and leave the existing K&T except for rewiring the kitchen and bath. Those lovely people at city hall have decided they will not issue a permit unless all of the K&T is replaced throughout the entire house and detached garage, and the entire place brought up to current code. 

I'll post the answer to #2 once I have some more quotes.


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## 220/221

> Those lovely people at city hall have decided they will not issue a permit unless all of the K&T is replaced throughout the entire house


 
You will thank them later. Somebody has to do it someday so it might as well be you and now.


I'm guessing 7k to 15k. That is quite a range but that's how contracting is.


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## wiredog

220/221 has a very good point. your house is wired with a non-current wiring method which means everything must go all new everything so it will be quite costly.


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## redline

greengiant said:


> We bought a house thinking we could have a panel installed and leave the existing K&T except for rewiring the kitchen and bath.


You should have put in a lower purchase offer on the house that would have reflected updating the wiring.


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## kjv1611

I have a somewhat similar home, I believe, but in South Carolina.

The house was estimated to have been built in 1960 (no one has any records of the exact date??).

Our house is mostly the original wiring, but apparently the previous owner did a few things:
Added on a master bath and big rear Florida room with all grounded wiring, including GFCI outlets. Well, it's all grounded except for the dryer power outlet in the master bath - the washer/dryer setup is a small closet within the bathroom.

A few outlets were changed out with 3-prong outlets, but they are not grounded, according to a surge protector or two which show "protected" and "grounded" lights.

The total square footage, including unheated space, but where there is electricity, is about 1700 square feet (1300 heated).

I would like to one day upgrade the wiring in our entire house, and have it all up to code.

Any guesses as to what something like that would cost - just a ballpark estimate.

One more note: about oh 5 years ago, I guess it was, I did get a sort of ballpark quote from an electrician in the area, but he couldn't give me a specific quote without coming out to look (and as I wasn't in the market to get the work done - yet, he was unwilling to look at it to give a quote).

His quote (licensed electrician, actually found through [Something]Magic.com) was about $5,000, and included the following:
1. Rewire existing wiring in house
2. Add a motion light in our detached carport - it's sort of attached, but counts as detached.
3. Rewire a separate 20 X 20 (or about that size) garage/workshop
4. Possibly add in a couple of ceiling light fixtures in our living room/den, where there are no ceiling lights.

Does that sound about accurate for now? Would that $5,000 5 years ago now be about $7,500?

Any thoughts at all would be helpful. I am not currently looking to make any changes, although I would love to. It just doesn't fit into the budget too well right now.


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## NateHanson

kjv1611 said:


> Does that sound about accurate for now? Would that $5,000 5 years ago now be about $7,500?


Are you asking people on a website (who haven't seen your house and don't know your area) to tell you whether a sort-of-estimate by an electrician who also hasn't seen your house is on target? :huh:


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## kjv1611

Hmm, guess it could kind of sound that way, couldn't it? Sorry. :no: 

What I am looking for is (based on the quote from about 5 years ago, and based on what information I can think of) what sort of ideas would you guys THINK it would run. Maybe a high and low - just to have a ballpark.

Best I know, here are some additional details:
Crawl Space with sort of a mini-basement (where the furnace and hot water heater are).
Unfinished attic, but that does have some flooring - well, it's some 2x6s or something nailed down accross a fair portion of the center of the attic to act as flooring - the rest is just open/insullation.

If I remember correctly the house was going to be $3000 or $3500, and then the shop and additional external light brought the total to $5,000.

I was just thinking that number would give a little more background. Not asking guys on the web to say yay or nay to what I got from a local contractor/electrician.

I hope that helps clear it up a little bit. :wink: 

One more thought: For the Main/Sub box(es), this is what I have:
1 switch box on the outside of the house
1 30 amp fuse box in the kitchen, which I know controls the kitchen, a/c unit and/or furnace, as well as at least one external light). I know this because I once had to replace one of the bus fuses. Not a comforting thought, being the box looks like something out of the movie, Frankenstein. :laughing: 
1 additional switch box in the newer bathroom, within the laundry closet. I think the master bath and the newer Florida room are on that box.

The newer additions were probably added between 18 and 20 years ago (they said "about 12 years" ago when we moved in, and that was 6 years ago).

Also, the switchbox in the laundry closet has some labels if I remember correctly, but I don't remember there being any labels on the other two boxes.

The previous home owner who was apparently good at doing things with his hands - did all sorts of thigns in the home, as well as other things he did for his job(s), etc - did some things great, and in my opinion (just as the home owner) some things not so great. My biggest thing that I just can't figure out for the life of me is why would you install new wiring in new construction, and ground all of it EXCEPT for the dryer outlet? Maybe there is a logical explanation, but I just can't figure it.

Anyway, any thoughts/suggestions/ballpark ideas would be appreciated. Of course I'm not going to an electrician, and say, these guys online said you ought to charge me _this_. :wink:


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## handyman78

Greengiant- Get at least 3 reputable local estimates (obtained from electricians through friends, colleagues, anyone that has used their services) to make up your mind regarding the cost for this project. Local codes may affect the pricing and any estimate given on a message board would likely be a general guess.


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## HouseHelper

KJV1611: It depends a little on what part of the state you are in and what the going rates are in that area. Here in the upstate of SC that job could be anywhere from $10k to $16K, depending on access, type of wall covering, number of can lights, etc.

Up until the 1996 code cycle, you were permitted to run a dryer (and range) with three insulated wires, connecting the dryer (range) ground to the neutral, as long as the circuit originated in the main service panel.


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## Piedmont

Round here, I don't think it would cost anything less than $12k. The question I wonder is, why? My house is 1962 and the wiring armored cable and, I like the stuff. Very well protected, and grounded. You shouldn't have knob and tube. The only thing I have to do when updating or expanding and using the existing armored cable is make sure I use metal boxes. Makes grounding switches and outlets easy, they're grounded through the metal box which is grounded through the armored sheath. Anyway, I wouldn't update all the wiring in a 60's house.


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## Andy in ATL

$7500 if I get to rape and pillage your sheetrock and/or plaster and not have to fix it.:laughing:


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## steve1234

I'm almost done completely rewiring a 2400 sq foot house (myself). Whatever you think it will cost, you're wrong....it's more.


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## Andy in ATL

steve1234 said:


> Whatever you think it will cost, you're wrong....it's more.


 
Hey Steve.... I'm a romex cowboy. Bet I can run it quicker, easier, and more profitably than you. That is just a guess, though. Pics?:wink:


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## steve1234

I do not doubt that you can pull romex quicker, easier, better, stronger, faster....... and I'm sure my wife would agree. I have more time than cash, so I pull wires. I also have friends with skills that need my help on their projects, so they pull wires too!!

It's been a few weeks since I've taken some pics. I'll shoot some tonight and post up tomorrow......


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## Andy in ATL

steve1234 said:


> I do not doubt that you can pull romex quicker, easier, ...and I'm sure my wife would agree....
> 
> It's been a few weeks since I've taken some pics. I'll shoot some tonight and post up tomorrow......


Only quicker and easier, bro. . Wife *HOT?* Bonk will be pissed.:laughing:


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## steve1234

wife, hot? Yes, but I don't want to start another 50 page post, so I'll leave her out of this. I'm sure bonk won't mind.....


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## honker

steve1234... You're right, I don't mind... I'm wishin' a hot wife for every good guy out there...:wink: :yes: 

Bonk


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## steve1234

Thanks for the wish.....I got mine!!!


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## gregzoll

For me, it cost $600 for a new box & meterhead (paid by the prev. owner before we moved in), and around $250 for extra breakers, wire, recepticles, switches, and plates. I still have to finish re-wiring the garage, and finish one room, and the lighting. Only reason I updated, was due to having to break the circuits down to more current standards, instead of coming off of 4 circuits.


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## borninpa

*gott get some local quotes!*

I had almost the exact same situation, but in southeaster PA and the house was closer to 1800 sq/ft but and I only needed second floor done (I miss that old Knob and Tube) I thought of doing the work myself but just did not have time at that period in my life. I called three electricians... beginning with the company with the big yellow page ad down to the one man shop a friend recommended. I got quotes from 15K down to about 4K. I chose the one man show. He was great and I saved lots of money. Make sure you get three quotes! 

Also, a lot of the cost is dependent on accessibility. My electrician ran conduit on outside of house from basement to attic. Once there, all bedrooms/baths were fairly easy to access.

Paul




greengiant said:


> Two questions for the pros:
> 
> (1) Approximately how much should it cost to rewire a 1,000 sq ft 1940's lathe and plaster house from 30amp knob and tube to 200amp breaker?
> 
> (2) How much is it likely to cost if the work is done in the SF Bay Area?
> 
> We bought a house thinking we could have a panel installed and leave the existing K&T except for rewiring the kitchen and bath. Those lovely people at city hall have decided they will not issue a permit unless all of the K&T is replaced throughout the entire house and detached garage, and the entire place brought up to current code.
> 
> I'll post the answer to #2 once I have some more quotes.


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## greengiant

*and the winner is...*

The average of 3 quotes is $16,600, all within about $600 of each other.
That's includes everything except patching the lathe and plaster at $40/hole

So the winner of the totally blind guessing contest is Steve1234 with post #12 :thumbsup:


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## steve1234

woo-hoo...what do I win?? Nothing, I'm sure....that answer was too easy!

BTW you have to love the bay area prices. I see the estimates and rates tossed around on this board and can only dream. (I work in sunnyvale and live is LG)


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## Crashless

I had a question for those who have done this themselves - 

I have a 1200sqft single story bungalow built in 1926 Pasadena, CA. The electrical is an interesting blend of 80+ years of electrical upgrades but my primary concern is the knob and tube wiring that runs all the overhead lights and a few outlets.

I have an attic, but poor access, and blown-in insulation caused some electricians to quote me over $10k to replace the wiring.

I am pretty comfortable with this stuff, very handy and a quick learner - is this something I could realistically do myself? My plan is to have an electrician upgrade our service from 100A to 200A, then wire one room at a time and bring the house to code.

Am I crazy for thinking of doing this myself? Any tips for pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks for the input.


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## Kingsmurf

I am over in the Modesto area . . .I would like to suggest a couple of things . .if you havent signed on the dotted line yet

A...there is a fellow on here I believe that specializes in older homes . .
may want to get a price from him
B . .in ANY bid . .to re-wire the home get some damn clear specifics
as to what materials will be used . . .panel . . .engineering plan as 
part of job . . .( we are totaly replacing an entire wiring harness)
. . .time lines . . .CLEAR CLEAR SCOPE OF WORK A TO Z
C . . .remember that you arent re-wiring . .you are re-wiring / re-lathing
re-platering / textiring / re-painting

THE CONTRACTOR WILL BE DRILLING HOLES IN VIRTUALLY EVERY 
WALL . . .CEILING . . .FLOOR ETC to gain access
D . .REFERENCES REFERECES REFERENCES . . .if you get the slightest
hesitation from any Electrical Contractor . .regardless of price . .for
goodness sakes . . DITCH THAT BID
E . . TIME LINE FOR START / COMPLETION AND SOLID SCHEDULE . .there
is nothing more uncomforatble than re-modeling a home you are living 
. .it is quite the nuisance
F . . ..realize you may be without power for varying periods for varying
lengths of time
G . .reading and signing the Contractors contract . .swell . . .but make
sure you have had prepared an A to Z inclusive contract . .must
include verbage to eliminate ALL . ." OH shucks I forgot that" . . 
add-ons by virtue
of not mentioned etc . . . .draws tied to inspections . .change 
orders instigated by you alone . .and again specifics included

doesnt want to sign your contract? . .drop'em like the palgue
after writing contracts for 6 business Parks . .these are the basics 
that will serve . .both of you well




wish I could do your project . .but that wouldnt serve you best . .be pleased to help in any way I can from here . . 
[email protected]


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## steve1234

keep in mind this is coming from someone that does just about everything himself. Are you crazy? I don't think so, as long as you have a realistic expectation of what you're getting into. It's a lot of work, and PITA work at that. There's a reason why the quotes are what they are. When I do something, I think it through and figure out the steps where I will need help / info. I don't start until I'm pretty confident I have a defined path to completion.....understaning, of course, you can't forsee everything. 

I'm rebuilding my house and I also have another day job. Since we are living in the house also, scheduling things takes on another dimension. I have to make sure I have ample time to finish if I plan to take down the power or water in the house. It doesn't go over well if I take the house off the grid and then announce, "c-ya, I'm going to work". That's just one pitfall I run into. 

I also think having a helper is essential when pulling wires in an existing house. Somebody on each end of the pull. 

I would also assess your ability to patch a wall. I have ended many a cable / fire block standoff with a utility knife to the wall. 

I think it comes down to you knowing your abilities. The DIY'ers that get in beyond their ability are the ones that create the stereotype of the hack DIY, and create a mess for themselves. I'm often amazed at some of the questions on this board regarding electrical. Often times I think to myself, "boy, I don't think I would have started that little project if I didn't know what a switch leg was (or whatever)". I applaud the effort, but I error on the side of "look before you leap". I would also suggest you that you know your way around the applicable version of the residential NEC. 

All that said, if you feel comfortable....go for it. It doesn't hurt to identify somebody to call in a pinch if something goes south.


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## jrclen

greengiant said:


> The average of 3 quotes is $16,600, all within about $600 of each other.
> That's includes everything except patching the lathe and plaster at $40/hole
> 
> So the winner of the totally blind guessing contest is Steve1234 with post #12 :thumbsup:


Thanks for posting your bids. I bid one this winter almost exactly like you describe. K&T 60 amp to a 200 amp with complete rewire. Minimal damage to lathe and plaster requested. Full basement and 1 1/2 story. I bid 10,300. Winning bid was 7,600. Patching was not included. Occupied during the work.


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