# Add a new neutral bus bar



## agd202 (Jul 3, 2013)

I’m looking to add a new circuit to my electrical panel. There is plenty of space for the new breaker, but the neutral / ground bar is totally full. That’s not a big deal for the ground wire as you can have more than one ground wire to a screw. But it is a problem for the neutral as you are supposed to only have one neutral wire for one screw. 

I could solve this problem by buying this little guy and mounting it to the panel box…

https://www.amazon.com/MURRAY-ECLX0...494612207&sr=8-2&keywords=murray+electric+bar

But then what? 

Do I need to run a jumper from the existing ground / neutral bar to the new one? With what gauge wire? Or maybe I don’t? What then? 

For reference, my electrical panel is a Cutler Hammer CH14D200 circa 1973. There is only one combo neutral / ground bar, and there are no specs on any label that describe how many wires can go with each screw. The way it is set up now, there are multiple grounds to single screws, but each neutral has its own screw.



This is not my box, but is the type of box I have.
https://www.google.com/search?q=CH6...AUICCgD&biw=1280&bih=876#imgrc=zbD7FZuwrkECVM:




Thanks!


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> dude i cant even count that high as to how many panels i have opened and saw two neutrals under one screw, its not a big deal


It not a big deal other than violating the NEC and the panel UL listing.
It doesn't matter how often you have seen hack work, doing it is not OK.

The OP should purchase and install a ground bar for his panel. Then transfer ground wires from the existing neutral bar to the new ground bar. That will free up a few positions for additional neutrals.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Oso954 said:


> It not a big deal other than violating the NEC and the panel UL listing.
> It doesn't matter how often you have seen hack work, doing it is not OK.
> 
> The OP should purchase and install a ground bar for his panel. Then transfer ground wires from the existing neutral bar to the new ground bar. That will free up a few positions for additional neutrals.


Why would they sell 40 and 42 place panels with only 20 spots on the neutral and ground bars?


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

agd202 said:


> I’m looking to add a new circuit to my electrical panel. There is plenty of space for the new breaker, but the neutral / ground bar is totally full. That’s not a big deal for the ground wire as you can have more than one ground wire to a screw. But it is a problem for the neutral as you are supposed to only have one neutral wire for one screw.
> 
> I could solve this problem by buying this little guy and mounting it to the panel box…
> 
> ...



If it's not a sub panel the neutral buss must be grounded. Not sure if a jumper is an acceptable method. Or what gauge.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

> dude i cant even count that high as to how many panels i have opened and saw two neutrals under one screw, its not a big deal
> 
> and anybody with at least a few years experience who tells you they have never done that in a pinch is a liar


Find another subject to give information on because you clearly do not know the code and correct wiring methods .


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Here is is an article on the subject.
http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Electrical%20Distribution/Panelboards/0100DB0705.pdf


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

This site does not promote knowingly giving bad/non code compliant advise/instructions. 

Some post have been removed. Please make sure the advise or instructions you are giving, are code compliant. Thank you.


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## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

Do you want the easy/cheapest way out 
Or the fully correct and code compliant way out 
Your choice ?

:glasses:


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The fully correct code compliant way is the only way we discuss here.


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

Back to the original question - (for my own knowledge) can you add another Bus bar and have it considered a Neutral/Ground bus bar with a jumper , or do neutrals all have to be connected to a common bar?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

The compliant way that probably is the easiest is:

Remove several grounds from the bar, wire nut them together with a pigtail back to the neutral/ground buss. Select #14 and #12 grounds and use a #12 pigtail.

Sent from my RCT6203W46 using Tapatalk


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Ground bars can be added. They bond direct to the chassis.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

The yellow circle is the bond for the neutral buss. Loosen screw to insert into bar. 


Eaton:

http://www.the370z.com/members/lud-albums-cars-n-stuff-picture61376-dsc02331-2.jpg


Square D come with a green screw with note you install.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...ELf7OMMupiri9WZfxfM9mR7t4a_k7rjB14u4QS8V0mzgi



Here's a DIY version but I'm not sure I'd do it. This is just an example.


http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii76/scb71_2/electrical/main_panelground.jpg


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The bond screw or strap is used on a service panel only. It does not allow neutrals to be installed on a ground bar screw to the enclosure.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Jim Port said:


> The bond screw or strap is used on a service panel only. It does not allow neutrals to be installed on a ground bar screw to the enclosure.



What if the ground bars and neutral bars are bonded to each other (like on a service panel) can you put neutrals on either bar?

I have a new house going up, I should look and see what the electrician did. Just out of curiosity.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

BIG Johnson said:


> What if the ground bars and neutral bars are bonded to each other (like on a service panel) can you put neutrals on either bar?
> 
> I have a new house going up, I should look and see what the electrician did. Just out of curiosity.


As Big asks.... with maybe a #4 or 6 solid.

(I realize it's usually/probably easier to add a ground bar and move some grounds off the neutral, but it might sometimes be easier to add another neutral at a location more convenient to original wiring.)


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

If an auxiliary ground bar is added it can only contain grounding conductors . No neutrals can be on a bar screwed to the enclosure .


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Jim Port said:


> If an auxiliary ground bar is added it can only contain grounding conductors . No neutrals can be on a bar screwed to the enclosure .




What is the potential hazard? Or is it just for standard practice and to prevent confusion?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You would be putting neutral current on the metal parts of the enclosure and creating a shock hazard .


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