# Staining previously painted cedar siding



## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

I am considering either paint or stain this house-------will prefer staining though I dont know how many times it has been painted. it is a 20s house in New england. the condition of the paint is terrible ....it is peeling off from two sides mostly due to severe weather conditions.

painter says it will come out nice...he is planning to sand it and then stain. do you guys think this is a good idea. would it really come out good ?

thanks


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

christy123 said:


> I am considering either paint or stain this house-------will prefer staining though I dont know how many times it has been painted. it is a 20s house in New england. the condition of the paint is terrible ....it is peeling off from two sides mostly due to severe weather conditions.
> 
> painter says it will come out nice...he is planning to sand it and then stain. do you guys think this is a good idea. would it really come out good ?
> 
> thanks


THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN STAIN OVER PAINT is if you sand ALL of the paint off of the house!!!!! Stain must be able to penetrate into the wood. Paint is a "skin" on top of the wood. If you do not sand ALL OF THE PAINT OFF, the stain will sit on top of the paint. It will not penetrate and you are wasting your money. 

If a lot of the paint is allready gone, and it wouldn't cost that much to remove the rest, have all the paint removed and use a stain. There are many types, but ALWAYS use an oil stain. Oil stains penetrate into the wood much better than water stains, hence longer lasting protection. Then you have a choice of what type of oil stain: Transparent, Semi Transparent, Semi Solid, or Solid. Remember, the more opaque the stain, the longer it will last, but the less wood grain you see. 

Stain doesn't last as long as paints, but stains are easier to maintain. Stains fade away, you just clean the surface, light sand, and restain. With paint you must scrape the loose paint off, sand, prime, then two coats finish when it fails.

So many painters do not truly understand the difference between stains and paints. I have been selling paints and stains for over 14 years, and I have learned a lot from my father, who is an exellent painter who has over 40 years experience. Trust me on this. If you can't get all the paint off, it's okay. Just make sure your painter does a good prep job, applies one coat primer, caulk where needed, then make sure two coats of a high quality 100 % acrylic low sheen finish is applied. And make sure he back rolls or back brushes (depending on surface) if he is spraying the coats.

If he uses a stain, it's very important he back brushes, and if a second coat is needed, it is applied wet on wet. that is, less than one hour after first coat.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

thanks ...that was very informative.

I have a few questions...

- u mentioned semi-transparent and semi-solid stains...what is the difference. 
-should he strip paint before he sands it
-what is good quality oil stain

thanks


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I agree. Solid stains won't show the wood grain where a semi-transparent will. Sikkens is about the best you can get in oil stains. If your painter is not going to strip the house down to bare wood then he need to prime any bare wood with oil primer and then he can use Latex.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

he says house would need about 40 galllons of stain.....house is about 1500 sq ft ....does that sound right?

also, does one have to worry about low ext temperature when staining ?


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Ya, if he was gonna do 9 coats. I think it's time for a new painting contractor.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

he is a good guy...he did a great job for the interior of the house...probably doesnt do lot of staining work


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

christy123 said:


> he says house would need about 40 galllons of stain.....house is about 1500 sq ft ....does that sound right?
> 
> also, does one have to worry about low ext temperature when staining ?


NOOOO!! At the most, 10 gallons of stain.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

christy123 said:


> thanks ...that was very informative.
> 
> I have a few questions...
> 
> ...


Semi solid has a bit more of an "opaque" look than semi trans

using a disc grinder or sander is much easier and less messier, imo, than using a chemical stripper. BUT, if he does use a stripper, he does that first, then let it dry for a day, then he can sand rest off

I always recommend Cabot oil stains, bu there is one company that is just as good, Sikkens. Only problem is that they cost more. So Cabot is your better bang for the buck.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

he said he will "burn" it...as there could be lead in the paint...


hammerheart14 said:


> Semi solid has a bit more of an "opaque" look than semi trans
> 
> using a disc grinder or sander is much easier and less messier, imo, than using a chemical stripper. BUT, if he does use a stripper, he does that first, then let it dry for a day, then he can sand rest off
> 
> .


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

christy123 said:


> he said he will "burn" it...as there could be lead in the paint...


By burn it I assume he will use a heat gun and not a torch (at least I hope so).
My advice is to have the wood lightly sanded, apply a quality primer anywhere there is raw wood, and then apply paint. This will assure you of a satisfactory result. The prep work for a quality stain job will be extensive. I am not sure I would stay with the painter you want to hire despite your confidence in his ability.
Keep in mind that sanding leaded paint is a hazardous activity that requires special care. It may even require a permit and the hiring of licensed professionals. I would have the paint tested for lead so you know what you are dealing with whether you want to stain or repaint.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Any contractor disturbing more than 20sq feet of an exterior surface has to be an EPA Lead Certified Firm, with a Certified Renovator and follow lead safety guidelines, through sanding, scraping, grinding, and power washing you are disturbing the surface. The house was built in the 20s, so the chances that it contains lead are high, the only way it would not contain lead is if it was 100% lead abated, which is rare and in any case when you bought the home you would rec. Paper work saying so. Even though there are probably a few layers of latex paint over the lead paint the house still more than likely contains lead. Burning paint containing lead is prohibited and using a heat gun to strip the paint is limited to the size of the heat gun he can use. The best bet would be to use a chemical stripper. Peel Away is a pretty good stripper. You could use a paint shaver too, which will do a good job, but then you still have to follow up with a sanding, but rather than go through all of that trouble and expense I would just repaint the exterior.


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

housepaintingny said:


> ... but rather than go through all of that trouble and expense I would just repaint the exterior.


I agree. The payoff for stripping the siding is not great enough to warrant the expense. A new coat of paint is the way to go. However, there may still be the need for some prep work and that should not be overlooked.


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*Stain VS Paint*



housepaintingny said:


> Any contractor disturbing more than 20sq feet of an exterior surface has to be an EPA Lead Certified Firm, with a Certified Renovator and follow lead safety guidelines, through sanding, scraping, grinding, and power washing you are disturbing the surface. The house was built in the 20s, so the chances that it contains lead are high, the only way it would not contain lead is if it was 100% lead abated, which is rare and in any case when you bought the home you would rec. Paper work saying so. Even though there are probably a few layers of latex paint over the lead paint the house still more than likely contains lead. Burning paint containing lead is prohibited and using a heat gun to strip the paint is limited to the size of the heat gun he can use. The best bet would be to use a chemical stripper. Peel Away is a pretty good stripper. You could use a paint shaver too, which will do a good job, but then you still have to follow up with a sanding, but rather than go through all of that trouble and expense I would just repaint the exterior.



I Agree with the advise you have given!!! 

Pearl Painters Portland Oregon
www.PearlPainters.com


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## Pearl Painters (Sep 22, 2010)

*Paint VS Stain*

If you really want the stained look, have your painter strip (NOT BURN, ITS ILLEGAL) one of the more intricate sections on your home and stain it before you turn him loose on the whole house. I have serious doubts that both your painter or you will want to stain after that exercise.
My advice is too, clean, scrape, sand and spot prime all failing paint/bare wood, caulk any cracks. Then apply 2 coats of quality 100% Acrylic exterior house paint. Here in Portland Oregon we mostly spray and when the substrate requires it we either back brush or back roll to ensure the paint has been worked in, which will yield a even finish that should last for 7-10 years.

Hope this helps

Pearl Painters Portland Oregon
www.PearlPainters.com 



christy123 said:


> thanks ...that was very informative.
> 
> I have a few questions...
> 
> ...


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

thanks very much for very helpful information...i would like a stained look but it seems the results may not turn out to be good..legal issues concerning the possibility of lead concern me....i will have to check with him about these issues before i make my decision


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

Someone mentioned this tool....http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver.html

it seems impressive. I thought I will share this with you guys since you have been very helpful.


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## lylegray (Oct 5, 2010)

*7 years for cedar siding paint?*

Hi,

Followed this thread and enjoyed the dialog. Great information!

I live in Wisconsin and have only gotten 4 years from my last two cedar siding paint jobs by two different contractors. The last time, the paint was chipping and peeling on the west side which gets more sun and wind/snow. The paint was oil based put on top of an older oil base of similar color. 

With better prep and using a primer would I get more "life"? 

Thanks.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

lylegray said:


> Hi,
> 
> Followed this thread and enjoyed the dialog. Great information!
> 
> ...


the reason your oil paint is chipping is because oil paint doesn't expand and contrast like a 100% acrylic does. I would use a good oil primer, then caulk where necessary with big stretch caulking, then apply two coats of a 100% acrylic low sheen, high quality paint like P&L Accolade or Ben Moore Aura. You'll get 6-8 years on the worst sides of your house, and because of the lifetime warranty, when it does fail again, you will have the product replaced for free.


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## lylegray (Oct 5, 2010)

*follow-up question on primer*

Hammer,

Does the primer need to be applied to the entire house, where the old oil based paint is on the cedar, or only to bare areas? 

Based on this thread, I am assuming a thorough cleaning/scrapping needs to be completed beforehand.....

I'll look to other threads for advise on proper 2nd story and roof "footing" to ensure I don't end up in the hospital....:laughing:

Appreciate you all taking time with your expertise.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

lylegray said:


> Hammer,
> 
> Does the primer need to be applied to the entire house, where the old oil based paint is on the cedar, or only to bare areas?
> 
> ...


Prime all raw wood AND areas that have oil paint. You want to seal them back and create a good bonding surface for the paint to stick to. BUT, try to get off as much of that old oil paint as possible! Your new paint will only be as strong as the old paint that's left after prepping! Also, always have scaffolding for a two story house. And the proper safety equipment.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I differ on hammer on oil based paint opinions. Oil doesn't expand and contract as much as latex, but neither does the wood on the side of your house. If the wood expanded on your house like vinyl does then it would pop the nails and split all over the place. I suspect improper prep was your problem. If the old paint was claulky then it will surely peel without removing the majority of the chaulk first.


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## hammerheart14 (Sep 2, 2010)

Matthewt1970 said:


> I differ on hammer on oil based paint opinions. Oil doesn't expand and contract as much as latex, but neither does the wood on the side of your house. If the wood expanded on your house like vinyl does then it would pop the nails and split all over the place. I suspect improper prep was your problem. If the old paint was claulky then it will surely peel without removing the majority of the chaulk first.


It's a proven fact to NOT USE Marine or Oil Enamel on an exterior of a house. EVERY time I have seen the oil fail, it's due to cracks on the seams of the trim where it meets the siding. oil enamel CANNOT expand and contrast to extreme weather changes i.e. 30 degrees in the morning to 70 during the day. you know i speak truth.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

Ok....we went ahead....the contractor decided to use Paintshaver pro...it seems like a great product. dont see any dust at all...some wood chips fall off .

I noticed some of the wood had dark discoloration...is that mildew? If i go with stain, how should we will those nail holes and the spaces between boards.

thanks


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

one other question--- do we need to use a primer if we go with stain. i was look at cabot house website...they mention using primer before staining


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

wanted to give u guys an update.... project is moving along...slower than i had anticipated . paint shaver pro is a game changer......wood looks beautiful.....some areas are discolored but plan to clean those areas with TSP.

I have decided to go with Sikkens SRD transparent.

Still have question about nail holes and gaps between shingles....

Also , night temps are dropping here in New England..... do the night temps have to be above 50F for the stain to stick?


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

If you go with stain, be sure to add a good mold and mildew inhibitor to the stain to help keep the stain looking nicer longer.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

You may be able to get a good caulk for wood that will match your stain to fill the nail holes and gaps. Ask the sikkens rep, cause they sell to log home owners and will know about matching caulks to stain.


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## christy123 (Oct 13, 2006)

Sikkens doesnt recommend mixing anything with their products!



guest said:


> If you go with stain, be sure to add a good mold and mildew inhibitor to the stain to help keep the stain looking nicer longer.


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