# HP secretly installing telemetry software on customer’s computers



## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I have 3 older HP computers. No issues, that app isn't installed on any of the three.
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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I do not know what OS you are running.

From what I have been reading, it has mostly been the Windows 10 computers but there are some reports from people with Windows 7.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Drachenfire said:


> I do not know what OS you are running.
> 
> From what I have been reading, it has mostly been the Windows 10 computers but there are some reports from people with Windows 7.


Actually I don't have any of the dozens of "valuable" utilities that come with new HP PCs. These were Windows XP and 8 machines, which I wiped and upgraded using generic Win 10 installation image files.

So yes, I may not be a good example.
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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

You may still want to keep an eye on your system. The software was installed as part of an update.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I found it on my new HP computer. Don't know if it was there from day one or not but it's not there now, thanks for the heads up!


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## Rough Rooster (Feb 7, 2015)

It was installed on my computer 11-15-17. Gone now. Thanks for the heads-up!

RR :smile::smile:


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## LGHTme (Aug 3, 2017)

Another reason why I'm happy that the last computer upgrdes I got for the office was Dell's and not HP.


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## mistergreen (Nov 29, 2017)

Interesting. Thanks for the heads-up, Drachenfire.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

LGHTme said:


> Another reason why I'm happy that the last computer upgrdes I got for the office was Dell's and not HP.


Dell loads their own versions of dubious bloatware.
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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

I dislike HP with a passion. They do make good hardware but I've always had trouble with their bloated domineering software. It's like two different companies. But I consider windows to be bloatware in general so just use linux these days.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I am glad I could help everyone out.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

JasperST said:


> I dislike HP with a passion. They do make good hardware but I've always had trouble with their bloated domineering software. It's like two different companies. But I consider windows to be bloatware in general so just use linux these days.


HP has a horrible reputation when it comes to hardware quality.

at least on the consumer side.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

user_12345a said:


> HP has a horrible reputation when it comes to hardware quality.
> 
> at least on the consumer side.


 I've had good luck with their printers. Don't know about anyone else. I won't buy another though due to their software. It's like installing an operating system.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

HP bought out Compaq about 10 years ago. Compaq was total crap. It took HP a while to purge all of that out of their supply chain.

My primary PC is a 10 year old HP. Still chugging along with no issues whatsoever. It even upgraded from the original XP to Win 10 flawlessly. Only the sound card was incompatible with Win10. A $10 fix (I'm not a gamer.)
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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Was referring to their consumer computers.

I have never owned one, but they're known for having defective laptops with bad motherboards and not dealing with it properly, screwing the customers.

In general the reputation for consumer laptops, desktops is not good. Their printers and business grade computers should be okay.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

user_12345a said:


> HP has a horrible reputation when it comes to hardware quality.
> 
> at least on the consumer side.



That has not been my experience. 

Over the years I have purchased 4 laptops and a workstation. None of them have failed. I upgrade to newer laptops as part of keeping up my IT skills. The old ones I re-image and give to family. 

The workstation has been running pretty much 24/7 for the last five years and is still going strong.

I have also helped friends and family buy HPs over the years and have had extremely few issues.

Much like a car, how well a computer runs and how long it lasts often depends on how well it is taken care of.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

were they business grade or consumer?

4 is a small sample size.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

They were consumer grade. each of those 4 laptops lasted me at least 5 years before I passed them on. One of them I gave to my niece who had it for about 3 years before someone spilled something on the keyboard and fried it.

There are three things that will kill a computer faster than anything else (short of physical damage or taking a BFH to it).

1. Heat - Lack of adequate ventilation can cause components overheat and fail. I see people using thier laptops on their beds or couch. They do not realize that they are blocking crucial vents needed to keep that laptop cool.

2. Power spikes - Any computer, especially a laptop should always be connected to a good surge supressor. 

3. Dust - This is related to the heat issue. Dust, especially on fans impairs the cooling ability of a system which can lead to premature system failure. Never use a vaccum to remove dust. Vaccums often build up static which can be discharged into a computer and damage components. Take the computer outside and use dry canned compressed air to blow dust out of the system. Do not blow air on the fan without holding the blades still. Allowing the compressed air to spin the fan can damage it.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> They were consumer grade. each of those 4 laptops lasted me at least 5 years before I passed them on. One of them I gave to my niece who had it for about 3 years before someone spilled something on the keyboard and fried it.
> 
> There are three things that will kill a computer faster than anything else (short of physical damage or taking a BFH to it).
> 
> ...


 What a worry wart. I don't do any of that and don't have issues. This laptop came out with xp on it (not now though). So that's what, 10 years old or more? I vaccum the desktops because I don't want to blow dust all over the place. Fans are supposed to spin, that's what they are designed to do.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

JasperST said:


> What a worry wart. I don't do any of that and don't have issues. This laptop came out with xp on it (not now though). So that's what, 10 years old or more? I vaccum the desktops because I don't want to blow dust all over the place. Fans are supposed to spin, that's what they are designed to do.


You have been lucky. In my 24 years (and counting) IT career I have lost count of how many computers I have seen deep six because of the issues I pointed out.

Yes fans are supposed to spin however they have limitations especially small ones, and those limitations can be exceeded by overspinning them with to hard a blast of compressed air leading to fan failure. Again something I have seen happen more than once in my career.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> You have been lucky. In my 24 years (and counting) IT career I have lost count of how many computers I have seen deep six because of the issues I pointed out.
> 
> Yes fans are supposed to spin however they have limitations especially small ones, and those limitations can be exceeded by overspinning them with to hard a blast of compressed air leading to fan failure. Again something I have seen happen more than once in my career.


 You're an IT guy that sees people using their laptops on their beds and couches? Okay, I won't pry. Many people use their laptops without a/c power, surge protectors/line conditioners are a good idea for electronics but they are make for some tolerance. Sure you could spin the beJesus out of a fan, just don't let your kids do the job.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

JasperST said:


> You're an IT guy that sees people using their laptops on their beds and couches? Okay, I won't pry. Many people use their laptops without a/c power, surge protectors/line conditioners are a good idea for electronics but they are make for some tolerance. Sure you could spin the beJesus out of a fan, just don't let your kids do the job.


When one works in IT, they become tech support for family and friends. As such you see how they treat their computers.

I never said computers could not work without a/c power and surge protectors (I never said anything about line conditioners), merely that computers are more susceptible to damage from overheating and severe power spikes such as those caused during power outages.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Drachenfire, I have a custom built, with a retail version of Win 10. It has a ton of telemetry/spyware. appwiz.cpl is nothing more than add & remove programs or programs & features. To get rid of everything, it would forever searching the registry. Even Hijack This doesn't show everything.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> When one works in IT, they become tech support for family and friends. As such you see how they treat their computers.
> 
> I never said computers could not work without a/c power and surge protectors (I never said anything about line conditioners), merely that computers are more susceptible to damage from overheating and severe power spikes such as those caused during power outages.


Sure, don't overheat them, let them collect a dust blanket, etc. People can abuse anything, not everyone swings that way though.The htpc I built runs at 75 cpu degrees.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Drachenfire, I have a custom built, with a retail version of Win 10. It has a ton of telemetry/spyware. appwiz.cpl is nothing more than add & remove programs or programs & features. To get rid of everything, it would forever searching the registry. Even Hijack This doesn't show everything.


Do you have a third party security software package installed?

Windows Defender is little more than an illusion of protection. In independent testing it provided no protection from lower-risk malware, mediocre phishing protection and poor malicious URL blocking.

While no software provides 100% protection, there are applications that help minimize the risk substantially better than Windows Defender. Norton Security, Bitdefender, Trend Micro and Kapersky are among the best. You can also check with your ISP. Some provide complimentary security software to their subscribers. For instance Comcast provides Norton Security Suite.




JasperST said:


> Sure, don't overheat them, let them collect a dust blanket, etc. People can abuse anything, not everyone swings that way though.The htpc I built runs at 75 cpu degrees.


A computer is like any other tool in that its longevity is often dependent on the quality of care it receives. My XP workstation which I built some 10 years ago still works. In fact I am contemplating into turning it into a RAID back-up storage or a media center.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> A computer is like any other tool in that its longevity is often dependent on the quality of care it receives. My XP workstation which I built some 10 years ago still works. In fact I am contemplating into turning it into a RAID back-up storage or a media center.


I installed linux on mine, all four, no protection other than the os. No problems.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

All AV is an illusion of protection. According to Dave Perry, formally of Trend Micro, 3/4 million viruses are released daily. No AV can keep up with that. Kaspersky is one big Trojan sending info to wherever. Besides, AV programs won't flag anything that MS does as malware.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> All AV is an illusion of protection. According to Dave Perry, formally of Trend Micro, 3/4 million viruses are released daily. No AV can keep up with that. Kaspersky is one big Trojan sending info to wherever. Besides, AV programs won't flag anything that MS does as malware.


Based on my experience I have to disagree with you.

I have seen first hand how good security software protect systems from malware and viruses. 

As for the 3/4 million daily viruses, this is a grossly misunderstood concept. 

When A/V companies release statistics like this, what they are not telling you is that the number is predominantly a count of individual pieces of identifying data associated with those named entries known as "signatures". 

Signatures are a unique string of bits, or the binary pattern, of a virus. It is what anti-virus software uses to scan for the presence of malicious code. A single virus can have numerous signatures. When an A/V company talks about 3/4 million daily viruses, they are counting every single signature within every virus. It is simply a marketing ploy to encourage you to buy their product.

They also count existing strains of virus that have simply been repackaged. Also included in "new definitions" are definitions for very old pieces of code and pieces of ancient malware. Some of these go back to the 1990s and no longer apply as they will not function on modern operating systems and web browers. 

One can be forgiven for assuming that all these viruses are aimed at the Windows platform. The reality is viruses are aimed at numerous platforms to include Android and Apple (despite their users claim Apple computers can be infected). All of these are included in their 3/4 million claim.

The bottom line is on average there are less than 20 new viruses and less than 300 revised ones in a given week.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Ok, I know what signatures & .dat files are. Whatever the number of weekly viruses actually is, it's still more than AV programs can handle. What bothers me more about AV programs is how some of them embed themselves in a PC & how they become a Trojan. In some cases it's almost impossible to totally remove them without a "removal" tool or manually going through the registry. I have enough confidence that I can protect my network without AV. I'm not recommending that the average user do that.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Ok, I know what signatures & .dat files are. Whatever the number of weekly viruses actually is, it's still more than AV programs can handle. What bothers me more about AV programs is how some of them embed themselves in a PC & how they become a Trojan. In some cases it's almost impossible to totally remove them without a "removal" tool or manually going through the registry. I have enough confidence that I can protect my network without AV. I'm not recommending that the average user do that.


To each his own. 

You my friend are in the minority. I queried my colleagues, who are all in IT, and not one of them runs a system without security software.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

I'm usually in the minority. Your IT friends have to satisfy an employer, I don't. When I managed a system for a mortgage, of course there was an AV program running. That's what they wanted. I picked Trend Micro because they were the last with phone tech support. That's long gone now.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

My discussion with my colleagues had nothing to do with our employer. We were discussing personal systems.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> My discussion with my colleagues had nothing to do with our employer. We were discussing personal systems.


 None of you nerds use Linux? If so what do you use? Never had any virus protection on my Macs or four Linux machines.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

We already discussed Linux in another thread.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Guap0_ said:


> We already discussed Linux in another thread.


 Yes, you said bsd was better then couldn't explain why. It's not an answer to the question though.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

I changed that to I prefer it & that I'm not telling you to switch. I still use Linux in a VM but neither of those things have nothing to do with this thread.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Guap0_ said:


> I changed that to I prefer it & that I'm not telling you to switch. I still use Linux in a VM but neither of those things have nothing to do with this thread.


 Why are you getting fluffed up? The issue was virus protection and I haven't had any with Macs and Linux so I asked since he said they all have AV software. You don't need to answer if you have no answer.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

I guess that we were sidetracked to virus protection. The original title was about telemetry.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

JasperST said:


> None of you nerds use Linux? If so what do you use? Never had any virus protection on my Macs or four Linux machines.


Of course all of us IT professionals have heard of and worked with Linux. However the overwhelming majority of businesses and government agencies run Windows based systems so this is what we mostly work on and are tasked with protecting.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Drachenfire said:


> Of course all of us IT professionals have heard of and worked with Linux. However the overwhelming majority of businesses and government agencies run Windows based systems so this is what we mostly work on and are tasked with protecting.


 You said viruses targeted many platforms, including osx. I asked what a/v you use for them. Linux is used quite a bit for servers.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

When I said viruses target many platforms, I was speaking in general terms. I personally do not run osx as I have no need of it and neither does my customer. 

I personally run Microsoft based systems because it helps me maintain my skills as that is what I work with on my job. I run Norton Security Suite on these workstations which have been very effective in blocking malware and other nasties.

My customer only utilizes Microsoft based platforms for all of their computing needs. For this they use Symantec Endpoint Protection on their network which has also proven quite effective.


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