# Leaks on porch roof



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

I have 4 leaks on the back porch. We have tried to fix the problem several times but we haven't been successful. On the contrary, it seems that every time we climb up to the roof, more leaks appear. We started with one leak, now we have 4. 
I have enclosed some pictures so you gays can tell me how to fix those leaks. The leaks are:

1.Where you see the piece of stick on the roof, 
2.On the right corner of chimney
3.Where the piece of metal paper is, and
4.Where the porch roof meets with the house roof. On the left side of chimney

I've been thinking to apply tarp or any kind of sealant. If someone know of a good one please let me know. 

Thank you so much


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you know how to check the pitch on a roof?
How many layers are on there?
There not one thing I can see that was done right on that roof.
There's just no way to just patch that one, the shingles and all the underlayment have to come off.

That's a very low slope roof so special care and added steps needed to be taken to keep it from leaking.

The exposure is off on all the shingles, some are so bad the adhesive is showing.
The chimney is flashed wrong.
Cricket shingles were installed wrong.
Looks like I can see exposed nails.
The siding never should have been in contact with the shingles.
No way to tell without removing the shingles but it looks like someone used the wrong thickness of sheathing or did not use H clips between the rafters causing the sagging. May even be someone installed new shingles over rotten sheathing.

There was a few more but I forgot what the were.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Yours is pretty simple and easy. After you remove the shingle to the ridge, repair all the wood. Then apply .060 reinforced EPDM from the gutter to 3' above the break. Flash in the chimney, etc. and recap the ridge.


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

*Leaks on roof's porch*

JoeCaption. Please give me a break!. We have changed shingle and rotten wood for about 3 times.
_Pitch is a 15 or 20
_Theres is only one layer
_We have never installed new shingles over rotten wood
_There is no adhesive on shingle, what you probably saw is the white line on shingle. 
_We paid special attention to place the shingle right over the white line drawn on the shingle
-What you mean with "The siding never should have been in contact with the shingles. (what is the siding?)

After several attempts to fix this issue, we have find out that the root of the problem is where the porch's roof meets with the house's roof. We started with one leak on the right hand side of chimney. We stripped the shingle on the area, installed flashing, covered it with tarp an applied new shingles and the leak remained afterwards although in a smaller amount.

We also stripped the shingles on the break and performed the same steps. We were able to stopped only one leak so far.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Pau-Latina said:


> JoeCaption. Please give me a break!. We have changed shingle and rotten wood for about 3 times.
> _Pitch is a 15 or 20
> _Theres is only one layer
> _We have never installed new shingles over rotten wood
> ...


There's no such thing as a 15 or 20 pitch.
On a low slope roof the shingles should have been run with less exposure which would mean it should have been way below the while line. And that white line was to tell you where to nail them not the where to set them. So there setting way further apart then they should have been. There's one row that's so bad up where the roof changes angles you can see the row of adhesive, so it's off by about 3" from where it should have been.
A low slope also calls for Storm and Ice shield or at least a double layer of roofing paper.
No roof done right would look like the waves in the ocean. 

You can try and patch that roof till the cows come home but it's still going to leak. It needs to come off and be completely done over by someone that knows what there doing.
Here's the install manual for some Timberline shingles, all that type shingles are all installed the same so the brand really does not matter if yours are differant.
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Resident...on_Instructions__Tri-Lingual_-412-2569-v6.pdf

Most of us posting back to you do this stuff for a living, where not just coming up with stuff to give you a hard time.


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

*Leaks on roof's porch*

Thinner666- Remove the shingle all the way to the ridge????. The problem is on the porch's roof not on the entire house's roof. We have removed shingle and repair rotten wood on the porch though, like tree times.

Anyway, the problem is where the porch's roof meets with the house's roof. We have one leaks on the right side of the chimney. We took off shingle on that area and installed flashing and felt. We even applied tarp over the flashing, but since the leak was still there, we checked inside the attic but no signs of water there.

We also have another leak on the left hand side of chimney, also did the same thing, but leak still there. So what I want to do now is to apply any kind of sealant over the shingle or even apply new shingles over. The problem is I don't know of any good sealant.

By the way, what is .o60 reinforced EPDM???


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,194076,00.html

This is what you chimmney should have looked like.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Well, you possibly could remove everything on the porch, and only go 1/2 up from the break to the ridge and try to tie it in. The chimney isn't correctly flashed. The shingles aren't correctly installed. The transition is also incorrect. The deep troughs between rafters here and there are wrong and need to be corrected. Joe pointed out some of those things.
Truth is, I don't see anything done correctly anywhere on the roof. Simplest course of action is to tear it all offa nd start again.


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

BTW, EPDM is the rubber product made for low pitch porch roofs like that. Shingles aren't intended for the prupose, They are water resistant, NOT water proof.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

After several attempts to fix this issue, we have find out that the root of the problem is where the porch's roof meets with the house's roof. We started with one leak on the right hand side of chimney. We stripped the shingle on the area, installed flashing, covered it with tarp an applied new shingles and the leak remained afterwards although in a smaller amount
Quote

Are you saying you shingled over a tarp?


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

joecaption said:


> After several attempts to fix this issue, we have find out that the root of the problem is where the porch's roof meets with the house's roof. We started with one leak on the right hand side of chimney. We stripped the shingle on the area, installed flashing, covered it with tarp an applied new shingles and the leak remained afterwards although in a smaller amount
> Quote
> 
> Are you saying you shingled over a tarp?


Yes, we did. We though by doing that, we were sealing the area pretty good. 
That was wrong hah


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Sure was.

Have you ever had a real roofing come take a look at this and give you a price on redoing it?


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

joecaption said:


> There's no such thing as a 15 or 20 pitch.
> On a low slope roof the shingles should have been run with less exposure which would mean it should have been way below the while line. And that white line was to tell you where to nail them not the where to set them. So there setting way further apart then they should have been. There's one row that's so bad up where the roof changes angles you can see the row of adhesive, so it's off by about 3" from where it should have been.
> A low slope also calls for Storm and Ice shield or at least a double layer of roofing paper.
> No roof done right would look like the waves in the ocean.
> ...



Ok, Its set then. We going to tear the whole roof down. This will be the 4th time doing that. I only hope this time I found someone that like you said, really knows how to do the job. The porch was an addition to the house 8 years ago and we hired a "professional" to do the job, but not long after the porch was finished, it started to leak. We called the guy back and he just spread tarp around the chimney. Back then, we knew zero about roofing, so we though tarp was a good sealer.
And for the 2nd time, we hired another professional. He tore part of the roof up, changed rotten wood and apply new shingle, but never stopped the leak.
Well, Joe, I can't thank you enough for giving me your expert advice. I have been so overwhelm for this issue that having had some tips from you, has helped me greatly.


----------



## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

I wish more people understood the value of sarcasm when coming onto a forum to ask for free advise of its members. It will certainly get you the best possible responses from the members. I know a good turn-of-phrase will get my creative juices flowing and getting me to think outside the box .....


----------



## vandel777 (Jul 27, 2012)

couple things i would like to point out.

@Photo 1+2 with the low slope/rooted wood and the dip in the roof
For a pitch this low (2/12) you can get low slope shingles which have a seal strip on the bottom of the shingle and in the middle on the back of the shingle.
the purpose of the seal strip in the middle is a crucial factor when it comes to low slope, we need to think about water flow here that is all roofing is guys, so in order for your roof to leak what has to happen is where the seams of your shingles are "2 shingles butt together" the water has 2-3 inches of coverage from the seam to the top of the shingle underneath those 2 butt shingles before it will leak. there fore those middle seal strips prevent the water from back tracking up those 2-3 inches and helps cover nails that can cause slow leaks ICE AND WATER THE WHOLE LOW SLOPE so the ice and water metals around the perimeter of the nail sealing it off"BUT,! this is very important part" just because it has those seals you are not 100% in the right, what needs to be done is put tar manually across each row on the top part of the shingle in a solid line so the water has no way of back up! its water flow were dealing with people, lets pretend we are the water. low slope shingles u can ge away with just taring the seam area on the top but, would give it a hell of a job if you did a solid bead across the whole top.

Please ask a question if that explanation was confuses or didnt get the point out, i understand it can be confusing and i might not be the greatest at wording this stuff but, imma do my best for you.

@photo 1+2 still, the dips in the roof should be fixed (tear shingles up and replace boards/plywood so you got a flat surface to deal with)

@photo1+2 Inspect your attic insulation, the smallest bit that is exposed/ not insulated can actually cause problems and for low slope this is something that should be gone to a "T" poor insulation will have hot/heat spot sdin your attic causing ice dams "snow melts then refreezes and repeats causes back ups)

@photo 3 Yes you can see the Nail line "ALMOST" this isnt a serious factor though. it is more of a LOOKS issue when its so small such as the photo shown (1/4 in / 1/2in) yes it takes that small amount away from its coverage and area that the water needs to back up but, if everything is done properly that will not cause your leak that is out of the question in this situation

@photo4 Ice and water shield should be places up the wall of the chimney and to take extreme caution while shingling this chimney due to its low slope this is going to seem like a over kill but this is going to do the job and make a low slope roof with shingles effective, Each shingle going up towards the wall needs to be Tar'd on the bottom from the top to the bottom of the shingle then placed down, the bead then goes across the top of the shingle, step flashing over that bead then so the water wont back under the step flashing area, then a bit on that piece of step flashing in the same zone "top of the shingle but across the flashing.

@photo4 the backpan of the chimney 
once you reach the back pan this is the most common spot to get leaks, to the same steps as stated before with the taring, for the last pieice of step flashing that will get cut at the corner of the back pan YOU WILL NOT USE METAL step flashing! you will get a small peice of lead and make a peice of step flashing the same size but mold it around the corner once again using tar in the same areas as stated before,

using this method you can shingle a 1/12 and sleep without worries, trust me this is one of the only ways to shingle a 1/12 a chimney / roof and get away with it.

@photo5 for this part you will have to take off the fascia board and make sure there is step flashing up those walls all the way up and make sure those shingles go under that fasica board and not butt next to it, you will need to cut a slit in the low slope to get that last shingle up there 

if you dont like this method then hey go with the torch down roofing that is another way to go about this, i dont like torching to brick though, years down the road the torch on will break away from the brick, use counter flashing over the top/bead of the torch on aswell, and throw a bead of sealant over the top of the torch on bead as well "winter worries"

going to the extreme haha


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Looks like we now have a comedian to confuse the OP even more. Just disregard Vandel entirely. 
For instance, "you can see the Nail line "ALMOST" this isnt a serious factor though." No almost about it. and no nails there either. Just one of many 'errors'.


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

*Porch's roof leaks*



joecaption said:


> Sure was.
> 
> Have you ever had a real roofing come take a look at this and give you a price on redoing it?



Yes, someone came but after tearing the shingles off and shingled back up, the leaks were still there. And the people who build the porch for us didn't fix the leak either. Thus, I became deeply skeptical and tried to fix the leaks ourselves.


----------



## vandel777 (Jul 27, 2012)

tinner666 said:


> Looks like we now have a comedian to confuse the OP even more. Just disregard Vandel entirely.
> For instance, "you can see the Nail line "ALMOST" this isnt a serious factor though." No almost about it. and no nails there either. Just one of many 'errors'.


just stating that isnt the issue for its leak its still got its coverage by the seam and isnt down that low to cause it to leak, nails still can be in the doubler layer they got like 3/4 inch of double layer for its nail line but, judging by the photos n the work i would guess its high nailed but! that isnt a cause of leak, more likely to cause a blow off is all.

it just simple shows poor shingling is all, wasnt chalkline and was poorly tabbed.
obviously its suppose to go at least on that straight edge or even over hang.

but, what i stated isnt commentary lol


----------



## roofermikeinc (Feb 4, 2012)

Everything Joe said is correct. You're getting a lot of good/bad advice on the fix.
1. It all has to come off the porch & 3-4 courses up the steep-slope portion. New shingles should start no less than 6" above low-slope/steep-slope transition.
2. Sheathing should be at least 5/8" plywood assuming rafters are no more than 24"OC.
3. Porch requires low-slope roofing system. Take your pick. TPO, EPDM, BUR - whatever. Must be treated as a flat roof, inadequate slope for shingles without professional expertise.
4. Flashings are wrong. Get estimates and find the guy who agrees with me and can show you a lot of past experience and* references* for chimney flashing, valleys, crickets,returns and flat/sloped transitions.

This roof, as is usually the case, is beyond the skill-set of most DIYers and requires a proven pro.

Like Roofer Mike Inc at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Roofer-Mike-Inc/337625929645476


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

My jaw dropped when I saw how they built that roof system.
Just how long a run is the roof from the gutters to where it changes angles on the upper roof?
Looks like way under sized rafters for that long a run. someone really butchered trying to sister the old rotted rafters, what they put in is doing 0 good, looks like a drunken sailor installed the blocking.


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

tinner666 said:


> BTW, EPDM is the rubber product made for low pitch porch roofs like that. Shingles aren't intended for the prupose, They are water resistant, NOT water proof.




Where can I find this product???


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Pau-Latina said:


> Where can I find this product???


 Your local ABC Supply, Bradco Supply, of most any roofing supply house. Get the .060. Looking at the trees in the pic, you might be better with the reinforced that the non reinforced.
The sales staff will likely lead you to the .045 EPDM. Ignore that advice!
Ask for the foreman's manual and read the details carefully. Use seam tape instead of splice adhesive. Only use the commercial grade .024 aluminum drip edge.


----------



## Pau-Latina (May 26, 2012)

tinner666 said:


> Yours is pretty simple and easy. After you remove the shingle to the ridge, repair all the wood. Then apply .060 reinforced EPDM from the gutter to 3' above the break. Flash in the chimney, etc. and recap the ridge.


 

After applying .060 reinforced EPDM, then I install the shingles?


----------



## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Yes, run the EPDM 3' above the break. Also do the roof around the chimney in EPDM and about 3' out to the sides of it. Then, when you do the shingles, lap about 1' or so onto the EPDM. Run them in a slight taper getting slightly closer to the chimney by about 1/2" on each course. This will prevent water from catching on the top edge of any shingle and running across the roof. Also taper the top 1/2 of each shingle itself, away from the chimney. You don't want squared tops on them there. Look at the valley photos on my website to learn more.
Feel free to call for clarification if necessary.


----------

