# Jack post spacing in basement



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You can't. Find another solution, by designing around it. If the architect who designed the home, wanted only one post or none at all, they would have spec'd the beam out to be larger in size.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

No one of this forum can give you an answer that will be yes without a lot more information. information such as

the type of steel beam, is it an S, W or other shape? what is the dimension and weight of the beam? what are the imposed loads? 1 story, 2 story, 3 story, etc.

your best bet and some of the best money you'd ever spend is to see a structural engineer and have him evaluate your situation, based upon facts they can measure and observe for themselves. Probably would only cost you a few hundred dollars for an evaluation. There are way too many factors for anyone online to answer the question properly. You want more of an answer than merely YES or NO. You could flip a coin for those type answers.

Just ask yourself this question, if someone did reply, "Hey MJ, not a problem dude, your steel beam is more than strong enough, move away!" would you move the column? You may later find out why they said "move away!" because you suffered a structure failure and have to move away .... You want to base your decisions upon an opinion that is based in knowledge and experience, one that can be held accountable in case of any issues.

Remember you get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!

Good luck!


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## Mjclemm (Jul 7, 2012)

GBrackins said:


> No one of this forum can give you an answer that will be yes without a lot more information. information such as
> 
> the type of steel beam, is it an S, W or other shape? what is the dimension and weight of the beam? what are the imposed loads? 1 story, 2 story, 3 story, etc.
> 
> ...




Yea I can see both of your points. I think I'll do just that , I will get a hold of the structural engineer and find out what I can do your right it's the best thing I can do and if it's only a couple hundred bucks it's well worth it thanks a lot man. I guess in hindsight it's a pretty stupid question LOL. Mjclemmer


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Even if he says you can move it your still facing have to cut out the floor and poring a new footing for it.
A slab is not meant to support a support post. It will just crack and sag.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Mjclemm said:


> Yea I can see both of your points. I think I'll do just that , I will get a hold of the structural engineer and find out what I can do your right it's the best thing I can do and if it's only a couple hundred bucks it's well worth it thanks a lot man. I guess in hindsight it's a pretty stupid question LOL. Mjclemmer


I can tell you this, that it is not going to happen, so laugh all you want. I hope the engineer avoids you with every call, because I can tell you right now, that it is not going to happen, and if you do decide to move the jack post, hope you never sell, because you are going to cause headaches for the next guy or gal.


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

A builder is rarely going to just place random posts in, (those cost money and builders are cheap) they usually max out the spans of the beam and put in as few posts as they can, moving one without MAJOR changes is nearly impossible. I've often found direct point loads above those columns carrying loading from the 2nd story or roof so that is another consideration that is very difficult to work around.


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## Mjclemm (Jul 7, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> I can tell you this, that it is not going to happen, so laugh all you want. I hope the engineer avoids you with every call, because I can tell you right now, that it is not going to happen, and if you do decide to move the jack post, hope you never sell, because you are going to cause headaches for the next guy or gal.


CALM DOWN dude.. I asked a question, some replied, I take the advise and go from there, if the engineer says to put in a new foundation for it, I will. There is always a way, you are NOT always right, even if I have to put in another beam, it CAN be done. I NEVER said I was laughing at your suggestion, why the hostility, wow, it's a simple question, I got an answer, calm down. Anything can be done, just a matter of money, thats all. If I get a structural engineer and HE SAYS it can be done, but a new footing needs to be put in and a new header to support the load, I think I'll do it.. Thanks for the advise, but I BELIVE an engineer knows more than us.. Thanks for all the advise.. mjclemm...


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

It can be done and we have done it before.
As you said You get a structural engineer he'll tell you what to do.

To only move it 4' might not even be too bad, or could be a nightmare every case is different. That's why you get the structural engineer.


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## Mjclemm (Jul 7, 2012)

mae-ling said:


> It can be done and we have done it before.
> As you said You get a structural engineer he'll tell you what to do.
> 
> To only move it 4' might not even be too bad, or could be a nightmare every case is different. That's why you get the structural engineer.


Thanks for the imput, I don't want anyone to get me wrong, if an engineer tells me it's a no go, it's a no go. But as I said, there isn't even any weight on the jackpots now, it's just there in place. The I beam is about a 1/16" above the jack post, the "jackpots" I'm talking about isn't the adjustable kind, it's cemented in the ground, and there it's under the I beam with 2 metal straps bent around the bottm of the beam, but it's not even touching the beam. If I can post a picture with the IPad I'll show you what I mean.. Thanks again for the imput.. Mjclemm..


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

steel columns under steel beams are normally welded all around to the beam. At least that's how I've done them the past thirty years.

Good luck MJ, let us know what the engineer says.


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## tony.g (Apr 15, 2012)

.....


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

looks like the "little column that could," ..... I think I can, I think I can ....


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

Mjclemm said:


> *I think I'll do just that , I will get a hold of the structural engineer and find out what I can do your right it's the best thing I can do and if it's only a couple hundred bucks it's well worth it thanks a lot man. * Mjclemmer


This should be a sticky. This has got to be the smartest post I've heard so far. The OP is doing the right thing. This is very rare here. There's a chance he can't move the post because the steel is maxed, but there's also a chance if he wants to move the post he can at a very large amount of money.

Anything can be done at a price!


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Mjclemm said:


> In my basement I have a Steel I beam spanning my entire basement . I have a total of 2 posts (set in concrete footings and...)coming from the floor to the I beam. I believe they are called jack posts.


No... they are Lally (or Lolly) columns.
Jack posts are a different crittrer and areused solely for temporary uses.



> My question is I want to move 1 of them approximently 4' over...


4inches 4 feet 4 yards... you don't "move" them.



> Has anyone done this without an issue?


if you plan to replace one... then also plan to add two.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Tarheel it could be a regional thing but we use "Jack Posts" or "teleposts" all the time for permanent installation.

We have moved them, called for changes in the wood beam, wasn't even that big a deal Just added a 2x10 on each side of existing beam in our case I've also heard of adding metal plates to the sides of the beam. And dug a new footing.

We did not add 2 just moved the one and changed the beam.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

mae-ling said:


> Tarheel it could be a regional thing but we use "Jack Posts" or "teleposts" all the time for permanent installation.


Truly? They let that slide ?

A lally column is a solid steel tube/pipe with concrete in it set permanently.
A jack post (like a jack) has moving parts to raise it.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

The critical question with jack posts versus lally columns is whether the jack post is rated for permanent use. Some of them are, but you have to check with the manufacturer, because I believe most of them are rated for temporary use only. However, this is a detail that is beyond many inspectors. For example, my house has to jack posts in the basement, and two lally columns, all of which are load bearing. Been that way since 1959. Who knows what the rules were back then.

As for moving the existing jack post or lally column, whichever it may be, the OPS has stated that the existing post is NOT TOUCHING the beam. If that is in fact the case, the post cannot be carrying any load, unless you believe that spooky action at a distance quantum mechanics applies to lally columns. It may be that the post is actually needed, but was not installed correctly. Could also be that the post is not in fact necessary. This would be a call for the engineer to make.


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## Mjclemm (Jul 7, 2012)

GBrackins said:


> steel columns under steel beams are normally welded all around to the beam. At least that's how I've done them the past thirty years.
> 
> Good luck MJ, let us know what the engineer says.


Thanks, that's what I had thought, what made me even think about moving it was 2 things, it wasn't welded, and it doesn't touch the I beam.mi will let ya know what they say.. Thanks again... Mjclemm...


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

You are most welcomed. 

I'm certain we would all enjoy your update. too many times we have posts that we never hear the results of. can also help to confirm advice that is given, or dispel it.

Good luck!


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## Mjclemm (Jul 7, 2012)

TarheelTerp said:


> No... they are Lally (or Lolly) columns.
> Jack posts are a different crittrer and areused solely for temporary uses.
> 
> 4inches 4 feet 4 yards... you don't "move" them.
> ...


I stand corrected, thanks for the correct term to be using, the pole in this case would be a "Lally" column. Also, the 4' is for 4 feet. Just another question, have you ever seen a "Lally" that wasn't touching the I beam? Mine is approximently 1/16" short of the ibeam. I find it strang, the house was built in the 1980s in Wisconsin... Must be in the cheese..lol.l thanks again. I will refer the the post in question as a "Lally" post from here out.. Mjclemm:thumbsup:


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

Daniel Holzman said:


> The critical question with jack posts versus lally columns is whether the jack post is rated for permanent use. Some of them are, but you have to check with the manufacturer, because I believe most of them are rated for temporary use only. However, this is a detail that is beyond many inspectors. For example, my house has to jack posts in the basement, and two lally columns, all of which are load bearing. Been that way since 1959. Who knows what the rules were back then.
> 
> As for moving the existing jack post or lally column, whichever it may be, the OPS has stated that the existing post is NOT TOUCHING the beam. If that is in fact the case, the post cannot be carrying any load, unless you believe that spooky action at a distance quantum mechanics applies to lally columns. It may be that the post is actually needed, but was not installed correctly. Could also be that the post is not in fact necessary. This would be a call for the engineer to make.



maybe the floor/footing the post is set on settled some and the beam stayed where it was causing the space between the two. it might take years for the beam to settle down to the post but it may never, who knows for sure?


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Mjclemm said:


> ...have you ever seen a "Lally" that wasn't touching the I beam? Mine is approximently 1/16" short of the ibeam. I find it strange...


We're back to assumptions...
1) the current column placement was calculated properly
2) the installer dropped the ball (no weld)
3) changing the PLACEMENT of the column opens you up to all manner of
issues not lease being inspection requiring 2012 standards.

If you weren't remodeling I'd suggest that you get a piece of 16ga steel to shim the gap and weld the column/beam joint. If you're plan is still to remove the column... the replacement(s) better be set in the right spot(s) and with a proper foundation. 

How "right" gets determined usually involves an engineer. But as said before, a plan to replace one column with two (because of span issues) might be the safest bet.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Tele-posts here are rated for permanent use and have the advantage of being adjustable, so if your house shifts you can adjust them as needed.


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## DeanColumn1 (Feb 29, 2012)

*column*

I would agree with the other posts, consult an engineer. 
As for the jack post, code states that the column must be at 3" in diameter. 
R407.3 *Structural requirements. *The columns shall be restrained to prevent lateral displacement at the bottom end. Wood columns shall not be less in nominal size than 4 inches by 4 inches (102 mm by 102 mm). Steel columns shall not be less than 3-inch-diameter (76 mm) Schedule 40 pipe manufactured in accordance with ASTM A 53 Grade B or _approved_ equivalent. 

You can get more info at www.DeanColumn.com


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

DeanColumn1 said:


> I would agree with the other posts, consult an engineer.
> As for the jack post, code states that the column must be at 3" in diameter.
> R407.3 *Structural requirements. *The columns shall be restrained to prevent lateral displacement at the bottom end. Wood columns shall not be less in nominal size than 4 inches by 4 inches (102 mm by 102 mm). Steel columns shall not be less than 3-inch-diameter (76 mm) Schedule 40 pipe manufactured in accordance with ASTM A 53 Grade B or _approved_equivalent.
> 
> You can get more info at www.DeanColumn.com


You are correct in Section R407.3, but so that others understand, the 3" schedule 40 steel pipe column has an outside diameter of 3-1/2", the inside diameter is 3".


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