# Best roofing shingles for the money?



## gante

Hi all,

I have to start thinking in replacing my roof. The house is 1650 sqft and the garage is two car detached garage. I started to look at shingle types to get an idea of the cost on material but there is so many different ones that I have no idea what is what. I don't need anything fancy. Plain asphalt shingles would be just fine, of course I would like them to last at least 30 years or more. I do not plan to do the roofing my self but I am trying to educate myself and make sure I understand what I am getting once I start dealing with a contractor. Please help me with a little shingles 101 explanation. What do I look for? and what do I want to avoid?. Again, I want a good lasting product for the least money as everyone else. 

Greg


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## HWConstruction

Check out this thread. /www.diychatroom.com/f9/owen-certain-teed-has-less-problems-37729/


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## Ed the Roofer

Your location may have different opinions for best results, but any of the big 4 brands are each very comparable.

But, studies have shown that most roofs only last between 12-15 years before needing replacement.

That is because they were not installed correctly over 90% of the time.

(These statistics are from GAF and Alcoa reported sources)

So, rather than waste idle time on a brand selection, the choice of the Best Roofing Professional would result in the Best Shingle Performance.

Attention to installing a Balance Ventilation System, which would add Intake Ventilation and Exhaust Ventilation to the roof will prolong your roofing investment significantly.

The 4 most major recommended brands are:

Tamko
Certainteed
GAF/Elk
Owens Corning

Ed


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## johnk

Coff,coff...Malarkeys


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## Ed the Roofer

johnk said:


> Coff,coff...Malarkeys


Usually, when someone refers to "Cough-Cough", I think of a Dr. telling them to bend over.....:no:

Nah, just kidding.

Malarkeys are a very well thought of brand, but just are not available in most areas, so I did not consider them to be included in the top 4 manufacturers that are available nation-wide.

Ed


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## hollerg

If you copy Ed the Roofer's link in his first post, do not include the hash mark in front of www


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## gante

Ed the Roofer said:


> But, studies have shown that most roofs only last between 12-15 years before needing replacement.
> 
> That is because they were not installed correctly over 90% of the time.
> 
> (These statistics are from GAF and Alcoa reported sources)
> 
> So, rather than waste idle time on a brand selection, the choice of the Best Roofing Professional would result in the Best Shingle Performance.
> 
> Attention to installing a Balance Ventilation System, which would add Intake Ventilation and Exhaust Ventilation to the roof will prolong your roofing investment significantly.
> 
> 
> Ed


 
Good advice about the proper installation. 
As far a a "good balanced" ventilation... what exactly makes it "good balanced"? How do you determine the amount of intakes/exhaust needed?
I don't believe my house is currently "well ventilated" if any at all and this is something I will be looking to get done with the new roof in the near future.


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## johnk

Ed the Roofer said:


> Usually, when someone refers to "Cough-Cough", I think of a Dr. telling them to bend over.....:no:
> 
> Nah, just kidding.
> 
> Malarkeys are a very well thought of brand, but just are not available in most areas, so I did not consider them to be included in the top 4 manufacturers that are available nation-wide.
> 
> Ed


Just having a little fun Ed.thanks for the reminder about the docs,probably time to get checked out,lol:laughing:


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## Ed the Roofer

gante said:


> Good advice about the proper installation.
> As far a a "good balanced" ventilation... what exactly makes it "good balanced"? How do you determine the amount of intakes/exhaust needed?
> I don't believe my house is currently "well ventilated" if any at all and this is something I will be looking to get done with the new roof in the near future.


There is an approved formula, adopted by building code agencies which regulate these things, although very loosely, since it is done incorrectly more than 90% of the time. There is the manufacturers recommendations and requirements to fulfill for the shingle warranty to actually become valid, which so many homeowners are totally lead astray by CON-tractors who prefer to only bid cheap, just to get the job today, rather than take the time to educate the consumers on everything that they need to know, to make an informed decision, whether or not that means selecting the options for the upgraded ventilation, or not.

The basic formula is that one square foot of ventilation is required for every 300 square feet of attic floor space.

But, all ventilation products are sold in Squar Inches of performance, so you need to add up enough ventilation products to add up to 144 Square Inches, just to come up with One Square Foot.

Here is a major caveat though. If the ventilation is not nearle equal and close to balanced, or slightly favoring the amount of Intake Ventilation, OR, if the attic insulation does not have a plastic vapor retarder under the warm side of the insulation, THEN, the attic ventilation is Required to be DOUBLED. The formula becomes 1/150 rather than the 1/300 as previously stated.

To make it a bit easier on yourself, please go to this website and do some further reading:

http://www.airvent.com/

amd also, regarding my some additional feedback on the necessity of Intake Ventilation, see this site:

http://www.dciproducts.com/html/smartvent_eave.htm

I and another 3-4 roofing professionals who post on this site, just recently completed our yearly review of the Attic Ventilation Seminar and testing, which is condcted by the Air Vent Corporation, so I highly regard the information from both of those sites.

When it is time for you to discover more about what you will need for your roof, please remain a poster here and ask your questions.

By that time, I may have my own website updated with many ventilation questions and answers too.

Ed


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## rhaspen

*Which brand shingle to use.*

Don't know where to go with this. I currently have Certainteed 25 yr. shingle and the house is going on 13yrs. Lawsuit with Certainteed is almost over. I keep hearing Certainteed is still the brand to go with since any issues with the shingle shoud have been corrected since installation. Why would I risk puting these back on my house? Just had a contractor out yesterday and they offer the Owens Corning in the same style I currenlty have. I'm in the Chicagoland area and am looking for any advice. 

The blog's I read on this site are all over the place. It seems that it is all personal preferrence and its just the luck of the draw as to whether or not your shingle lasts a long time.


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## Ed the Roofer

It really is a personal preference.

I prefer Tamko Heritage, but am not opposed to Certainteed LandMarks either.

I am iffy about the GAF/Elk since the merger, but other have pro and cons on their Timberlines.

On Owens Corning, well they left a long term bad taste in my mouth and industry wide by professionals, they are usually acceptable, but not the top choice.

IKO..... Forget about it. Especially in our area.

Are you North or South side? City or Burbs?

Ed


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## Slyfox

Certainteed and IKO both have had to make material changes due to material failures and both appear, atleast thus far, to have done so.

GAF did not change their materials make up when they bought out "not merged" Elk, they simply expanded their list of products and sales base.

Tamko has had many issues with their Tabbed shingles but the laminates "non tabbed" have a good track record.

OC has had issues with their laminates "non tabbed" but it was not as wide spread or severe as Certainteeds or IKO's.
OC also did not have to abandon any of their product lines when they had problems, they revamped them as did IKO, Certainteed attempted to revamp two lines but have had mediocur success and had to eliminate two lines completely.

Which is the best, none of the above, they all have pros and cons.
Choose the one that has the look you like best and hire someone like Ed to install them according to manufacturer specifications and you'll be fine.


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## rhaspen

*Thanks Ed / Slyfox*

This was very useful information Ed and Slyfox. My family has been in the trades for quite some time. My dad, who was the general contractor, built my house almost 13 yrs ago. The roofer he used has been doing his work for over 30 yrs, however, he only installs Certainteed. I told him that Certainteed left a bad taste in my mouth, why should I choose them again?

He understood. It's like buying a car (lemon). Why buy the same one again. Thanks again for all of you information. Currently working with the insurance company to see what they will cover as well. I'll keep you posted on my final decision.

Rob H.
Oswego, IL
:thumbup:


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## MJW

When GAF bought out Elk....that's pretty much all they did, besides put their name on the Elk shingles. Nothing has changed, just depends on where you get them, as to whether you actually get a GAF Timberline or an Elk shingle.

BTW, I was told that GAF actually has more lawsuits and problems with their lines. We've replaced plenty of Timberlines, GAF 3 tabs, and Certainteed 3 tab organics, but only one roof with Landmarks(haven't done this one yet).

IMO, the materials are just as important as the installer.


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## Slyfox

MJW said:


> When GAF bought out Elk....that's pretty much all they did, besides put their name on the Elk shingles. Nothing has changed, just depends on where you get them, as to whether you actually get a GAF Timberline or an Elk shingle.
> 
> BTW, I was told that GAF actually has more lawsuits and problems with their lines. We've replaced plenty of Timberlines, GAF 3 tabs, and Certainteed 3 tab organics, but only one roof with Landmarks(haven't done this one yet).
> 
> IMO, the materials are just as important as the installer.


Told by who'm?

I agree with materials being as important as the installer, just for different reasons as you.


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## AaronB

rhaspen said:


> Don't know where to go with this. I currently have Certainteed 25 yr. shingle and the house is going on 13yrs. Lawsuit with Certainteed is almost over. I keep hearing Certainteed is still the brand to go with since any issues with the shingle shoud have been corrected since installation. Why would I risk puting these back on my house? Just had a contractor out yesterday and they offer the Owens Corning in the same style I currenlty have. I'm in the Chicagoland area and am looking for any advice.
> 
> The blog's I read on this site are all over the place. It seems that it is all personal preferrence and its just the luck of the draw as to whether or not your shingle lasts a long time.


What was the determination on the cause of failure?


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## stan k

hey guys didnt CERTAINTEED have problems with the lawsuit because they used "organic" materials for the shingle? my contarctor is offering CT landmarks or IKO,, from what im reading the IKO is not highly reccomended.. does anyone know if the landmarks are made of the "organic" crap? and from what ive read the landmarks are not part of the problems that CT had,, also if i may ask im considering a color change i now have a lite grey shingle, im thinking about the "MIORE BLACK certainteed, has anyone any info on how much this will affect the temp on the second floor < i live in a two story high ranch in new york > any help would be appreciated !


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## MJW

Landmarks are not included in the lawsuit. 
With proper ventilation and insulation, the roof color won't make a difference in temp inside the house. Your Contractor should explain that to you. You should trust your contractor over anything someone says on a DIY website. If you don't trust him, you should find another Contractor that you do trust.


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## seeyou

rhaspen said:


> Don't know where to go with this. I currently have Certainteed 25 yr. shingle and the house is going on 13yrs. Lawsuit with Certainteed is almost over. I keep hearing Certainteed is still the brand to go with since any issues with the shingle shoud have been corrected since installation. Why would I risk puting these back on my house? Just had a contractor out yesterday and they offer the Owens Corning in the same style I currenlty have. I'm in the Chicagoland area and am looking for any advice.
> 
> The blog's I read on this site are all over the place. It seems that it is all personal preferrence and its just the luck of the draw as to whether or not your shingle lasts a long time.


From what I understand about the Certainteed lawsuit, only one or two of Certainteed's products were defective. While I don't approve of Certainteed's handling of that situation, the indications I'm getting is that they don't intend to let it happen again. The models that failed prematurely were never popular in my area, so little of that comes into play here. But, I've had one warranty problem with Certainteeds since the lawsuit started and they bent over backward to solve it quickly and went WAY above and beyond their obligation. 

Will they continue in this mode? Don't know, but hopefully they've learned from their mistakes. You reckon Toyota will notice a pattern in repairs and not issue a recall a little quicker next time?

My local experience (and this can be swayed by the local sales/warranty reps and the regional factories) is that Tamko produces a top notch product (never had a warranty claim on them, so I don't know how they act when faced with one), Certainteed is right on top of any new problems, OC will try to find any way to blame the installer, and GAF will try to wear you down by ignoring you and not showing up. 

Iko's and Atlas are barely represented here and Malarkey's are not sold here, so I don't have enough experience with them to comment.


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## seeyou

stan k said:


> does anyone know if the landmarks are made of the "organic" crap? and from what ive read the landmarks are not part of the problems that CT had,, also if i may ask im considering a color change i now have a lite grey shingle, im thinking about the "MIORE BLACK certainteed, has anyone any info on how much this will affect the temp on the second floor < i live in a two story high ranch in new york > any help would be appreciated !


Only a few 3 tabs still use an organic felt to the best of my knowledge.

A lighter color shingle will operate at a slightly lower temperature, but not enough to base your color decision on. Your comfort level on the second floor should be a function of proper insulation and/or proper venting, not roof color. However, roof color could effect the comfort level if the insulation/venting is subpar.


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## Slyfox

stan k said:


> hey guys didnt CERTAINTEED have problems with the lawsuit because they used "organic" materials for the shingle? my contarctor is offering CT landmarks or IKO,, from what im reading the IKO is not highly reccomended.. does anyone know if the landmarks are made of the "organic" crap? and from what ive read the landmarks are not part of the problems that CT had,, also if i may ask im considering a color change i now have a lite grey shingle, im thinking about the "MIORE BLACK certainteed, has anyone any info on how much this will affect the temp on the second floor < i live in a two story high ranch in new york > any help would be appreciated !


The settlement agreement covers only organic shingles, which the company made from July 1, 1987 through 2005, and then discontinued manufacturing and selling several years ago. The shingles in the agreement were sold with the brand names Hallmark Shangle, Independence Shangle, Horizon Shangle, Custom Sealdon, Custom Sealdon 30, Sealdon 20, Sealdon 25, Hearthstead, Solid Slab, Master Slab, Custom Saf-T-Lok/Saf-T-Lok, and the Custom Lok 25.
The settlement does not include CertainTeed's fiberglass shingles Centennial Slate or Landmark. Nor does the settlement include the fiberglass formulations of Horizon, Independence, Hallmark, and Hearthstead shingles.


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## BCIDallas

*shingle decisions*

The major brands are within "spitting distance" of each other in regards to quality. Most of the problems we experience are more related to installation and ventilation. Make sure the roofer tears the old roof down to the deck and replaces any rot, then lay down a good felt (Gorilla Guard, ShingleMate, etc.) as opposed to cheap 15# felt. Use lead boots/pipe jacks instead of 3-in-one's, and some sort of ice/water shield (metal or tar-rubber) in the valleys, and if you live in a windy area use more nails per shingle and/or consider stepping up to a higher rated shingle. Use a ridge vent if you have sufficient ridge length instead of turbines. Poor ventilation not only raises the cost of A/C, but causes damage to the shingles by overheating and causing blistering that will burst the granules off the shingles and leave tiny little exposed asphalt holes that look like hail damage to the untrained eye. 

But for the original question, Certainteed is usually a pretty good brand, and there will always be a "lemon batch" at some point from every manufacturer. 
GAF, Tamko and OC are all pretty close and will usually last as intended provided they are installed properly.


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