# Rats in the attic. Help.



## mar0isa (Jul 24, 2011)

Get a small cage type trap (non lethal) and bait it with cake frosting. They love this stuff. Can you get a ladder in your attic? Is there tree limbs that need cut back to prevent easy access to your roof. They could also enter the walls/attic from the crawspace. Do you by any chance have a dear camera or know anyone who will loan it to you?


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## mar0isa (Jul 24, 2011)

Rat poison empty? They may already be dead if you aren't catching any in the traps. Anything eating the bait? Your better off traping them than poisoning them. Dead rodents stink! Rat poop is twice as big as mouse poop by the way. Good luck.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Well, 4 days later and nothing in the 4 traps I set up there. When I was pulling them out this morning, I could hear a knocking on the roof above me. Sounded like the knocking I heard Monday morning which I **thought** was coming from the tray ceiling. Do squirrels crack nuts loudly on roof tops?

There is no 'crawlspace' on this house. Concrete slab foundation. 

All the rat bait I believe was from years past that the previous owners had placed. When I first bought the house three months ago, there were trees touching the roof but I immediately had a tree surgeon come in and cut all trees back as soon as we closed. I have removed all empty or partially empty rat bait that I have seen so far. 

I am thinking I have been hearing squirrels on the roof now. There are tons around here and they are pretty noisy. 

I'm thinking if we do have rats, it won't be questionable as I will definitely hear them scratching and humping up there?


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## josall (May 7, 2011)

As Mar0isa said get a small live trap, use peanut buttter and sprikle some bird seed on top. You will catch one or the other.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Live traps?

I dont think so. What a pain that would be to dispose of them. 

Snap traps for me thank you very much. I could care less about being humane to rats!


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## josall (May 7, 2011)

Since you have had 0 results I thought this would tell you what is in your attic. It's not about being humane it's about results.


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## More Power! (Aug 2, 2011)

Could be chipmunks, too.

One way rodents get on the roof is by climbing the downspouts. One way to solve that is screens at the top. (That will lead to the need for more frequent cleaning, if you have deciduous trees overhead, tho.)

I'd have a roofer out to inspect and, if necessary, repair the ridge vent.

If I could not determine what, if anything, was running around in my attic, I'd hire a professional exterminator and be done with it.


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## mar0isa (Jul 24, 2011)

Ya, deer cam or live trap should tell you something.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Pro exterminator wants $1000 bucks to take care of the 'issue'.

The problem is, I don't know if I really currently 'have' an issue at this point.

As mentioned previously, the house used to have tree branches laying on the roof which have now been remedied. 

If you have rats, would you hear them scratching around up there? I would think so?

All I have heard so far is a knocking from the ceiling once, a light knocking that I now know may have been coming from the roof. 

What has freaked me out is all the partially eaten and empty rat bait I have found in the attic thus far combined with the poop I have seen. It's obvious that there was once a rat/mouse issue previously, but I am not sure if there is still an issue since my attempts at catching anything with peanut butter baited on snap traps have failed. The peanut butter was completely untouched in all cases.

I like the deer cam idea. I need to hit up my brother-in-law for one.


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## mar0isa (Jul 24, 2011)

Squirles can jump a good distance if the limbs are nearby. Could it be limbs or nuts falling from a tree? What about attic fan noise? New homes have funny noises too. You may be a bit too worried. Is the poop dried up?


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

I squeezed some of it and it felt hard but was shiny black in color. Don't know if color indicates poop age.......


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

If you hear them scurrying around in the attic, I'd bet on squirrels. I don't think rats scurry like squirrels.

If it is squirrels, I doubt you will catch any in the attic with any kind of trap. When I had my squirrel problem, I read an article by some guy that stated they will not be trapped inside the attic.

I had two live traps, a gopher trap, and a leg trap in the attic for a good while with peanut butter and seeds. They were ignored completely. All mine were caught in the yard or leaving the attic in a matter of several days.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f51/squirrel-nest-94089/?highlight=trap


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## nanuk (Aug 14, 2011)

*could be bats?*



noone said:


> I squeezed some of it and it felt hard but was shiny black in color. Don't know if color indicates poop age.......


"Shiny" indicates insect cuticle is present. Could be bats?

A wonderful forum. Congrats!


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## ironman70 (Aug 20, 2010)

I had good luck with glue traps in my attic.


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## shazapple (Jun 30, 2011)

Squirrels get into my basement occasionally, so I have a live trap with an apple, or sometimes peanut butter. If you are feeling industrious you can dump them on the other side of the city, but I just give them swimming lessons.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

boman47k said:


> If you hear them scurrying around in the attic, I'd bet on squirrels. I don't think rats scurry like squirrels.
> 
> If it is squirrels, I doubt you will catch any in the attic with any kind of trap. When I had my squirrel problem, I read an article by some guy that stated *they will not be trapped inside the attic*.
> 
> ...


Billy the Exterminator may have just disproved the atement about squirrels not being caught inside the building. He supposedly trappede one in a lady's attic.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

I now have 24/7 surveillance going on in my attic now. I borrowed my bro-in-law's deer cam and have set it up facing a piece of cardboard baited with peanut butter stuck with macademia nuts. 

Let's see what this turns up.

Hopefully NOTHING.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Deer cam, night 1. Looks pretty big. Rat or big mouse?


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

Norway rat. Kill them in traps, with poison, whatever you got to do.


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

Puts some snakes up there.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> Norway rat. Kill them in traps, with poison, whatever you got to do.


I found at least one opening where I think they are getting in. I closed it up yesterday afternoon. Put some snap traps out using the same bait I used when these pics were snapped and caught nothing last night. Baited them with peanut butter with a macadamia nut on top. Nothing. Rat(s) didn't go near it. Is it possible that it was already out during the day and now can't get in? My dad said to bait with raw bacon which I will try tonight.


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

He may have gotten out, but rats are neophobic; that means fear of something new. If they have a food source they may avoid yours for a while. The bacon idea is good-I’ve suggested that to others. Macadamia lure was marketed heavily to us as a sure-fire lure for rats and mice. The hype and marketing has slowed down a lot, probably not as good as they wanted it to be. I would tie the bacon on to the trigger with dental floss or thread. That will require them to pull on it; SNAP! Good Luck.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> He may have gotten out, but rats are neophobic; that means fear of something new. If they have a food source they may avoid yours for a while. The bacon idea is good-I’ve suggested that to others. Macadamia lure was marketed heavily to us as a sure-fire lure for rats and mice. The hype and marketing has slowed down a lot, probably not as good as they wanted it to be. I would tie the bacon on to the trigger with dental floss or thread. That will require them to pull on it; SNAP! Good Luck.


Baited two snap traps with bacon tied to the trigger with dental floss. Nothing. No appearance by the rat(s), the deer cam confirmed it.

Timeline so far:
1. 8/21, 5:00am, deer cam takes 2 pictures of rat near peanut butter topped with macademia nuts on cardboard (no traps), as shown in above post.
2. 8/21 - 5:00pm, I close up a hole on the outside of the house where there was obvious entry. Set two snap traps baited with peanut butter and macademia nuts.
3. 8/22 - 7:00am, check the traps, bait untouched, deer cam confirms no activity. At 7:00pm, I rebait the traps with tied bacon.
4. 8/23 - 7:00am, check the traps, bait untouched, deer cam confirms no activity.

How many more days do I do this before I declare 'success'? 

Do I need to rebait with fresh bacon every day, or does that matter?

P.S. - the only reason I used macademia nuts was because we happened to have a bag of them that someone gave us.


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

No expert, but from what I've read placement of the traps can make a difference. Rats tend to follow the walls rather than walk across the middle of an area. Place your traps along the wall where they are most likely to travel.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Sounds like bats to me too. I had issues with them in my attic. A .410 shotgun with bird shot did the trick.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

md2lgyk said:


> Sounds like bats to me too. I had issues with them in my attic. A .410 shotgun with bird shot did the trick.


Uhhh, it's not bats. See post #19


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

noone: It all sounds good but it’s hard to put a time frame onthese guys. We are humans and have to be careful about projecting our logical thinking onto their behavior. blondsense is right about rats traveling along walls-they feel with their whiskers as they run. However, hunger and food can override that behavior. You’ve seen and heard nothing-another day or so and I’d relax, but stay alert. If the bacon isn’t rancid, leave it on.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> noone: It all sounds good but it’s hard to put a time frame onthese guys. We are humans and have to be careful about projecting our logical thinking onto their behavior. blondsense is right about rats traveling along walls-they feel with their whiskers as they run. However, hunger and food can override that behavior. You’ve seen and heard nothing-another day or so and I’d relax, but stay alert. If the bacon isn’t rancid, leave it on.


I put the traps in the exact same place as I had left the 'free' bait the night when I caught them with deer cam pics.

I tend to agree that if it/they are now trapped inside, they will be seeking out food with a vengeance and won't be so picky. The fact that the deer cam has spotted 0 activity leads me to think that he has left the premise, but I will try for 4 more nights just to be sure. I don't want to end up with a dead starved rat in my attic.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Foiled again by this pesky rat!! I didn't check the deer cam until tonight. Bacon bait has been on the snap traps for two days now. When I checked it last night, one of the traps had been tripped and tonight as well. One of the water heaters is about 5 feet away, so I thought that it expanding and contracting (it makes noises when it heats up) might have possibly caused it, but it looks like it is this rat causing it. It's almost as if he smells a trap. I will rebait with some fresh bacon and try again. The trap I am using is a Victor rat trip with the metal trigger. Do I need to buy the one with the plastic pedal? Seems like this guy may be pressing the side of the trap to test it first before going for the gusto! Smart little f'er.

Bro-in-law says to use glue traps......


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

It’s possible that mice are setting off the traps. Don’t set mouse traps as that would not catch the rat but would make him trap shy. Set more rat traps; try the expanded trigger trap. They can catch mice sometimes as well. 
Glue traps can work but bring other issues. Rats will get stuck and sometimes get off. When stuck they will scream and raise h___ until you physically kill it. If you aren’t there when it happens and others are-you will get an emergency phone call whereever you are. If only front feet are stuck they will move around until they are someplace that you can’t get them without getting up close and personal with a mad rat. Don’t nail the glue trap down as they then can pull against it and get off.
I know rodenticide isn’t a great option in the attic due to dying rodents, but at this point it may be better to have dead rats than live rats in the attic.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> It’s possible that mice are setting off the traps. Don’t set mouse traps as that would not catch the rat but would make him trap shy. Set more rat traps; try the expanded trigger trap. They can catch mice sometimes as well.
> Glue traps can work but bring other issues. Rats will get stuck and sometimes get off. When stuck they will scream and raise h___ until you physically kill it. If you aren’t there when it happens and others are-you will get an emergency phone call whereever you are. If only front feet are stuck they will move around until they are someplace that you can’t get them without getting up close and personal with a mad rat. Don’t nail the glue trap down as they then can pull against it and get off.
> I know rodenticide isn’t a great option in the attic due to dying rodents, but at this point it may be better to have dead rats than live rats in the attic.


Looks like a rat to me in those last pics??

The deer cam doesn't lie. It pics up **any** motion as it is pointed towards the set traps. If a mouse was messing with the traps, the deer cam would have snapped a picture of it. If this is the same rat (hopefully), it looks like he may have lost some weight.... How long until a rat starves to death if locked in the attic?


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

noone said:


> How long until a rat starves to death if locked in the attic?


How can you lock a rat in the attic? He'll find a way out, or make one.

Try peanut butter on the traps. No rodent can resist it.

I'll bet you wish that snake was still up there.


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

It’s a rat and he’s not going to starve; he would already have chewed and tore up much trying to get out. You would know it. He’s getting in and out somehow.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> It’s a rat and he’s not going to starve; he would already have chewed and tore up much trying to get out. You would know it. He’s getting in and out somehow.


Just got back from attic inspection. When I got home, I was changing in the closet and heard a knocking noise. Sounded like it was coming from the outside wall where 2 of the ac condensers are located. Could the AC be rattling the pipes? Walked outside to the ac units and no way the units were causing the knocking. Head on up into the attic and find the AC electric wire all chewed up right next to where this SOB has been living for some unknown amount of time. Further inspection yielded another location of entry some 10 feet away. The dirt all over the insulation below this area where the roof lines and eaves meet gives it away. Should I seal all holes from the inside or outside? My dad and I were thinking to stuff 1/4 inch hardware cloth in every hole we find real well, make it like barbed wire for them, and then spray foam it shut. Seems like a good idea to me. Thoughts?

P.S. I put the 4 rat snap traps baited with peanut butter right next to the nest where I heard it/them chewing the ac wire. I know I can outsmart this rat. We are smarter than rodents!!! :thumbsup:


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

These guys are challenging you aren’t they?!? You are doing the right things; I may be afraid to seal them in the attic accidentally. I know you are busy with working on the inside, but it may pay you to go outside and figure out how they are getting in. This could give another opportunity for trappings, baiting.
Are they going up behind the siding? Burrowing under cement slab or against basement wall? Are they going up a tree and onto the roof and flipping under the soffit? Look for “body rubs” where their body oils will darken a corner or place where they rub their body repeatedly. Sometimes they will live under dog houses, sheds, etc. as their exterior harborage. They must be getting food outside and bringing it into your house as they aren’t eating your food. Suspect neighbors pet foods, gardens, bird sees/feeders, etc.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> These guys are challenging you aren’t they?!? You are doing the right things; I may be afraid to seal them in the attic accidentally. I know you are busy with working on the inside, but it may pay you to go outside and figure out how they are getting in. This could give another opportunity for trappings, baiting.
> Are they going up behind the siding? Burrowing under cement slab or against basement wall? Are they going up a tree and onto the roof and flipping under the soffit? Look for “body rubs” where their body oils will darken a corner or place where they rub their body repeatedly. Sometimes they will live under dog houses, sheds, etc. as their exterior harborage. They must be getting food outside and bringing it into your house as they aren’t eating your food. Suspect neighbors pet foods, gardens, bird sees/feeders, etc.


Found the mother load entrance this afternoon. There is an opening where the soffit doesn't meet the roof about 1.5 inches wide x the width of the soffit. My dad and I spent this afternoon stuffing hardware cloth up in there and then spray foaming it. Will use a couple more cans of foam tomorrow after this first round dries and then nail up the soffit again. This was a straight shot into the attic of this house. I mean, you could see the ceiling insulation after I removed the soffit. Incredible! This is in addition to the 2 other smaller entrances they were using as well. I didn't realize I was going to spend my entire weekend plugging up rat entrances on this house. There are at least 6 other areas that we need to check tomorrow where the roof line changes. 

This is a concrete slab house and the only way they are getting in is from the roof and so far, there have been plenty of places they are getting in.

Oh and I can see my next door neighbor has a bird feeder.

Perfect!

PABugman -

What do you usually do to seal out rats from customers' houses? Hardware cloth stuffed in the hole and a little bit of spray foam? Do you do it from the inside of the attic if possible? The entrance in this particular picture was impossible to get to from the inside of the attic. The other 2 found entrances so far I will seal from the inside of the attic tomorrow as they are reachable.

Any pro tips to sealing up an attic you can offer?


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Spray foamed about 10 other spots around the roof where the roof line changes. There were so many different ways these guys could enter the attic. Party central. Well not anymore. Right now I hear them scampering around on the roof trying to get in and scratching too. Could be coming from the inside, but it's hard to tell. Have 3 traps set at the main entrance (now sealed) outside and 3 inside, all set as light as possible. We will see what tomorrow morning brings.


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## PAbugman (Jun 29, 2010)

You’re doing a great job-they will never get ahead of you again, I’m betting. I rarely get into the actual job of sealing/excluding as there are many more talented than I. There are others that visit this site can offer good guidance, especially with that photo. The hardware cloth and spray foam is one trick that I used to exclude grey squirrels in a house and it worked well. The cloth gives a backing and structure to the foam. 

How are they getting onto the roof? The harder you make it for them to find harborage at your house, the more likely they will go and live with the bird-seed neighbor, especially after the ones who have been acclimized to your house are dead/gone/given up. Can you discreetly set your deer cam to the bird feeder for confirmation? That could be touchy as far as neighborly relations can go. Sprinkle some bird seeds on the baited traps as they are familiar with that. 

Sealing from inside or outside doesn’t matter too much, I don’t think. Try to get surfaces as flush as reasonable so they can’t get a tooth hold so well.


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

PAbugman said:


> You’re doing a great job-they will never get ahead of you again, I’m betting. I rarely get into the actual job of sealing/excluding as there are many more talented than I. There are others that visit this site can offer good guidance, especially with that photo. The hardware cloth and spray foam is one trick that I used to exclude grey squirrels in a house and it worked well. The cloth gives a backing and structure to the foam.
> 
> How are they getting onto the roof? The harder you make it for them to find harborage at your house, the more likely they will go and live with the bird-seed neighbor, especially after the ones who have been acclimized to your house are dead/gone/given up. Can you discreetly set your deer cam to the bird feeder for confirmation? That could be touchy as far as neighborly relations can go. Sprinkle some bird seeds on the baited traps as they are familiar with that.
> 
> Sealing from inside or outside doesn’t matter too much, I don’t think. Try to get surfaces as flush as reasonable so they can’t get a tooth hold so well.


Thanks for the encouragement. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure how they are getting on the roof to be honest. There used to be tree limbs laying on the roof when we first bought the house back in May. I immediately had the tree surgeons out the day after we closed to take care of that issue. The closest tree limb now is about 10 feet away vertically. I think I have been hearing them in the gutters that are hung on 90% of the house, so they may be coming up a downspout possibly? It's also a stucco house and I see squirrels walking up the side of the house all day long, so I don't know if that is a possibility? I ended up sealing from the outside. It was too hard to get to the areas from the inside of the attic, plus too damn hot. I am going to trim all the foam tonight. I have now become a master of roof walking. Pretty hairy on this roof. It's STEEP.

I now have 3 traps set with bacon in one part of the attic. On the other side I have 3 traps set, 2 are those plastic Victor 'Power Kill' rat traps (http://www.victorpest.com/store/rodent-control/b144-2), the only ones I could find late at night at Wal-Mart. On this side, I have the Victor old-school trap set with peanut butter, the other 2 plastic jobbers have a macademia nut in the tray. Nothing from last night suprisingly. I can hear them rattling around. Last night, I could clearly hear a scratching/gnawing noise for a few seconds from one side of the attic. I heard it and then stood there quietly and didn't hear it again. This morning, when I went up to check one side of the traps, I heard a scurrying on the roof. Could have been a squirrel, it's just hard to tell. I am thinking they may be locked out now, luckily. I will keep trapping all week and see what happens. It's funny, but I really, really, REALLY, want to see a dead rat in ONE of my traps. I just hope I didn't lock in a nest of babies in there. I guess I will know in a week or so.....:whistling2:


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

*Unbelievable*

Got home today and went up on the roof to trim back some of the foam I had over sprayed in a few areas. I then noticed that the rat had chewed right through the foam in one particular area! All in one night. I knew I had heard chewing last night. Went inside the attic and plugged the hole with hardware cloth from the inside and foamed the hell out of it. It will now have to chew through an inch of foam from the outside to get in, only to be met by a wall of hardware cloth. No way he can push that aside unless he can also move another 4 inches of foam laying on top of that!:whistling2:

Just got finished laying 6 glue traps. I don't care what anyone says, i'm desperate. Snap traps have been entirely ineffective for me the last 3 weeks. I put two at one roof entrance, and 2 at the other roof entrance I just plugged. The rat(s) have already started chewing at the foam trying to get back in!! I also put 2 on the inside of the attic at this same spot. I think something is going to turn up in the morning :laughing:

I hope there isn't a babies nest in here!


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

Wow... at this point, I'd be considering adopting a really big tomcat


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## noone (May 4, 2011)

Nothing for several days now. Glue traps seem to have scared everything away, or maybe they just gave up for now. Looks like things are under control. I think that realistically there was one, maybe two rats in my attic at any one time. I bet it was a lot worse when the previous owner lived here with the trees laying all over the roof. Plus, I counted at least 20 or so empty poison packs scattered around about this attic that covers a 3900 sq ft house, making it pretty evident that there was probably a more serious problem at some point in the past. Well, the house is sealed up now and I don't think anything is inside. I'm still surprised the original owners of 15 years never remediated like I have now done. I will continue checking the foamed areas and monitor for intrusion. 

I never did trap a single rat.


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