# How much energy do Low E windows save?



## troyce1 (Oct 9, 2008)

I was going to replace the windows in my house in about 2-3 yrs (they were installed in 98). However my contractor gave me a great price to install them.

I am wondering if the added cost of doing it now, will offset the saved money over the 2-3 years.

How can i determine how much energy they save?


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## Chemist1961 (Dec 13, 2008)

Glass is not the only issue. If you go with vinyl check out the extrusions of a few brands and compare beyond the glass. They create air pockets in different ways. 
I live in a cold zone between Detroit and Buffalo. I had an energy audit done last December. I have 30 year old Pella windows and the cranks are messed up. Outer sills are getting rough.
Oddly enough, the auditor, who was not a salesperson, said I would never recoup my expense...energy wise, by replacing windows and listed it as a very low priority. These are not even vacuum sealed, dual pane, just two layers of glass, one removed by 4 clips. 
I still want to do the windows but I was very surprised.


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

troyce1 said:


> I was going to replace the windows in my house in about 2-3 yrs (they were installed in 98). However my contractor gave me a great price to install them.
> 
> I am wondering if the added cost of doing it now, will offset the saved money over the 2-3 years.
> 
> How can i determine how much energy they save?


Just an FYI, The National Fenestration Rating Council is a nonpartisan coaltion of Professionals whose purpose is to provide a fair but accurate and creditable energy performance-you can contact them at 301-589-6372. Some companys claim you can save a 1/4 to a 1/3 in energy costs a year, such as Eagle, Marvin, Andersen, Koble & Koble- wood is natures best insulater- not hollow vinyl- I have seen some vinyl companies state they have an R13 to R19 value- but they did there own testing and took the best performance part of the glass- It also depending on how well the windows are installed - I heard a statement once that 65-75% of vinyl windows will leak air with in a couple of years- but the market is 65% vinyl- I believe in wood windows over vinyl- if you are moving in a couple of years then go vinyl- but if plan on living in house more than 10years then I would go with a wood window- better performance and you can parts and pieces usually for the top five wood window companies- and who says they all have to be replaced at once - but again it also depends on were you live- below I-70 I would you a mid band window- Marvin- or vinyl siminton- but if you live above I-70 which has colder /longer winters I would you Eagle-Marvin-ANdersen-Koble & Kolbe - weathershield - Andersen is the most common brand window- 400 Series window woodwright double hung can be made to custom sizes- Andersen makes a custom full frame and a replacement pocket window both made of fibrex which will never rott-it a sister window of renewel- Marvin can make any thing to size is actually is a great window and offers more options - and also makes a great replacement window-- be carefull and do your own homework and research the window your contactor provides and recommends - I would stay away from Pella their currently in a class action lawsuite for rotting windows with in 10 years and you can actually see wood exposed from the outside- Jeld Wen looks too boxy and sills on both Pella and Jeld Wen are made of Aluminum sills with no thermal break-allowing cold and heat conduct to the inside of your house walls- JeldWen owns a lot of window companies and it will be hard to figure out just what one you might be getting-if you have too go vinyl - siminton is a good window- but remeber the saying you get what you pay for- this goes with about every vinyl window- Stay away from Lowes and Home Depot at first and go to a local lumber yard for advise and information- then figure which window suits you- ask about service, availability of parts, reputation and warranty -then do a price shop- quality then service- then price- any one can sell you anything- but if you can not get service or if the window company goes out of business-good luck on finding parts and pieces and or service for the windows- LP windows - Malta- Republic vinyl windows- Hurd - are a few companys that have come and gone- Hurd found an investment company for cash flow after bankruptcy- good luck keep everyone posted one the this page 2-3 years you will not recoop your total investment- but over time of 6 to 10 years you will with a quality wood window cardinal also makes about 90% of the glass for the Manufactures of wood windows today- each company has it's own pattens


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

so whats the difference of 'JeldWen vinyl' windows from lumber yard,,,and Mennard's??? Same window??

AND for a rental situation where renters are lucky to SHUT a window,,let alone take care of one,,and EVER finish or refinish one if necessary,,,what else is as maintance free as vinyl?? How often must one re- finish on a wood window??


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

lots of good info Emily:thumbsup:


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## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

Yep, good advice there, especially about avoiding bog box and Pella. If your windows were installed in 98, they are likely at least double pane glass, and possibly Lo-E/argon. The window is only part of the solution, the installation is also very important for keeping out drafts. So get referrals on any prospective contractors, and check the referrals. 

If you old windows are Lo-E, there won't be much savings in energy costs, assuming a proper installation. If only double pane glass, maybe 5-10%. Insulated glass units with Lo-E/argon and a well sealed installation can give a savings of 15-25%.

To answer your question, energy costs have stabilized and maybe gone down just a bit recently. So the urgency to save energy has also gone down, but still not an bad thing to do.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

That always happens as soon as energy price go down most people become less interested in saving energy


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

On a cold winter night (-0F) a solid shade will do more good than low E. This is due to the radient heat loss. Just keep the shade loose to allow circulation and stop the low E glass from frosting.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> On a cold winter night (-0F) a solid shade will do more good than low E. This is due to the radient heat loss. Just keep the shade loose to allow circulation and stop the low E glass from frosting.


Thats a great tip :thumbsup:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

My house had replacement windows installed by a prior owner to sell the house (8+ years old). They used replacement windows & did not insulate the sash weight pockets. So on the side of each window I had as 3" uninsulated area. Between windows near each other I had (6) 12" spaces that were uninsulated

My basement had 5 single pane poorly sealed windows & a door in the same condition. Basement dipped to 45 the 1st winter. I replaced 3 windows & the door - basement normally stays between 58-63 now. That is the single biggest benefit, we are in a cold spell right now & it has dipped to 54. One of the remaining windows is now enclosed under a new sunroom. The last window will become a door to the new garage

I replaced 15 windows with Anderson 400 series. I spent about $4500 all together. In the past years I have saved $5300 in heating costs

In many cases replacing the windows will not pay off. For various reasons we opted to install new windows


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

4just1don said:


> so whats the difference of 'JeldWen vinyl' windows from lumber yard,,,and Mennard's??? Same window??
> 
> AND for a rental situation where renters are lucky to SHUT a window,,let alone take care of one,,and EVER finish or refinish one if necessary,,,what else is as maintance free as vinyl?? How often must one re- finish on a wood window??


Andersen Prefinished Interior white option-which is call flexcon (PVP Paint)-Andersen positives the wood and negatives the paint- sprayed about 12 mill thick and dries 5-8 mil thick as two heavy duty trash can liners- the prefinished option is tough and should last at least approx 20 30 years- if condensation does rott the wood away from the glass- it only has a 10 year warranty- if you want to paint over it- you will have your work cut out for you- scuffing it with sand paper- Marvin also has a prefinished option not sure the mill thickness- I would go vinyl for a rental- no one takes care of any thing any more- siminton- is a great option- then All side- then silverline/American craftsman 8500 series vinyl- 

Jeld Wen has several vinyl brands - I believe Wenco is now the brand at Menards- see the real thin glass glazing stops on out of sashes- ***stay way from vinyl windows that have weep holes in the sills or pocket holes in sills these can actually fill with water and freeze then crack the sills of vinyl windows-thin lift rails-non renforced- Jeld Wen also has a vinyl window called Summitt Window- not sure how many series at your lumber yard-I think there is 3 series but ask the questions- I know Home Depot has American Craftsman 8500 Series "Special order" that was consumer reports best buy award for 2008- the 1200 series is very low end but still better than- Pella threma star this window is junk- paper thin glazing stops on out side- thin lift rails on sashes lifts- thinner vinyl than silverline/American Craftsman- pocket sills which can crack if Ice builds up**** but here is the number one reason not too use Pella Therma star they use a double side adhesive tape- which will break down over time-non sloped sill for water and Ice to build up - I beleive Lowes only stocks just dual pane glass in most states - there are so many vinyl companies- they claim they have the best window- they are very comparable- because quality and craftsman ship are out the door- most vinyl windows do leak air with in a couple of years- go with what you think is best- If it was me-I'd go cheap for rentals- unless these are high end users- Home Depot runs a 20% off sale on special orders about every three months if you can wait- Silver line 1200 Series- they have a lifetime warranty- but what is a lifetime warranty in vinyl windows- usually about 8 to 10 ten years is the lifetime of vinyl windows-usually the company is out of business parts can not be orders because the changes in the window- the list goes on and on - wood windows can rott- and plastic windows can break- crack- split , fall apart, etc.. so no window is really totally maintance free- just like everything else windows wil break down over time- depends on renters, sun, moisture, condensation, walls shifting, installation, regional temps/weather, etc...


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> On a cold winter night (-0F) a solid shade will do more good than low E. This is due to the radient heat loss. Just keep the shade loose to allow circulation and stop the low E glass from frosting.


 
I noticed your catch- wow- what type of fish is it-


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

H D by me carry simontons now, i think silverline went out of buisness


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Emily -

Lake trout that weighed 38# two days after catching. - About 42-44# when caught. - About 20 miles north of Minesota in Ontario (not a long, fancy fly in trip and only a 30 minute flight from weast to east.

Do not confuse U-values or R-values with the ability to eliminate radiant heat loss, which can be devastationg. If you are in a cold climate, just stand in front of a window at night and compare that to standing there with a shade pulled. U-value tests are just for conductivity and not radiant heat loss.


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## troyce1 (Oct 9, 2008)

Wow, great information.
The windows we have now are double paned and were installed in 98.
I hear so much about the Low E windows, I guess alot of it is just hype.

We plan to stay in the house at least 5-7 years.
And the Low-E windows we were looking at were basically just the Silverline 1200 Low E series, vinyl nothing fancy.

I'll have to look into this a bit more before making a decision.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Visited a friends house in upper Maine
They actually had insulated window shades - cloth material - in a track. When closed they sealed the windows completely. Most windows they left covered in the winter except on weekends. The only shades they would open would be South facing windows when it was going to be sunny.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

i dont think anyone really can say how much energy you will save 
Anyone who does is not being truthful imo


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## EmilyP (Dec 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> H D by me carry simontons now, i think silverline went out of buisness


Sorry:no:, to correct you, but Silverline/American Craftsman is in every Home Depot East of western texas to Maine and abled to be special ordered through out all Home Depots in the US, Jeld Wen vinyl is out west in a few states - and in Canada. Rumor has it SilverLine/American Craftsman will be stocked in all states as soon as Andersen builds a new plant out west to make the Silverline product- plus 100 series will all so be carried in south western states and in a couple years in the south -it's made out of fibrex exterior- made in four colors- and currently made in Texas at the old Silverline Plant- American Craftsman- is still growing their business in Home Depot every year- 
As I know it- SIMINTON WINDOWS- is just special ordered at just a few Home Depots - and is installed by At Home Services division for about $850 to $950 A UNIT- expensive- more than Renewel from Andersen Windows- Vinyl vs Fibrex- Fibrex would win hands down everytime unless your costumer was un educated-


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

thanks for setting me straight:thumbsup:


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## JoeFixIt (May 7, 2009)

*Energy Efficiency*

Energy Efficiency of windows comes down to the 'U' factor, overall quality of the window and proper installation. Most window companies inflate the % savings and every house is different, so do the research and you'll find a general consensus:
.32 'U' = 15-20% savings per heating & cooling months
.30 'U' = 25-30% saving the average home $75/month or more 
.23 'U' = 35-40% saving the average home $100/month or more

Energy Efficient windows also provide something very difficult to put a price on..._they increase your level of comfort_. Want help paying for the new windows and be even more comfortable in the winter & summer? Increase your attic insulation to 20" (20-25% savings), will typically pay for it's self in 18-24 month's and then help pay for the new windows!

_Quality costs more and Quality will pay for it's self over time._


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## JoeFixIt (May 7, 2009)

*Simonton*



EMILY P said:


> Sorry:no:, to correct you, but Silverline/American Craftsman is in every Home Depot East of western texas to Maine and abled to be special ordered through out all Home Depots in the US, Jeld Wen vinyl is out west in a few states - and in Canada. Rumor has it SilverLine/American Craftsman will be stocked in all states as soon as Andersen builds a new plant out west to make the Silverline product- plus 100 series will all so be carried in south western states and in a couple years in the south -it's made out of fibrex exterior- made in four colors- and currently made in Texas at the old Silverline Plant- American Craftsman- is still growing their business in Home Depot every year-
> As I know it- SIMINTON WINDOWS- is just special ordered at just a few Home Depots - and is installed by At Home Services division for about $850 to $950 A UNIT- expensive- more than Renewel from Andersen Windows- Vinyl vs Fibrex- Fibrex would win hands down everytime unless your costumer was un educated-


Simonton is available through ALL Northeast Home Depot stores via At-Home Services, prices start around $575 for an average size window, typically 1/2 the cost of Renewal by andersen, better warranty and serviced by Home Depot At-Home Services. Home Depot teamed up with Simonton to give consumers a high end vinyl window that doesn't cost $1000-$1400...which the franchise window companies charge. It troubles me that andersen would specifically target the high priced franchise market and also offer a window ("fibrex") in excess of $1000. :huh:


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## Domino (Jun 14, 2011)

*Why replace when you can retrofit?*

There are a lot of window companies out there that want to replace all of your windows - but if your windows aren't that old, why not retrofit them with solar control window films? There are a variety types of windows films from the typical tinted to clear infrared-blocking films, low-e films and others that provide security as well as solar control.

There are many professional installation companies that will install window films for a fraction of what it costs to replace your windows. But window film is a pretty straight forward DIY project - you can buy some films from your local hardware store, or you can check out online window film stores for a broader selection and price comparison.

Check out YouTube and others for DIY videos on how to install window film yourself.

The payback time is quicker since the cost is lower and you don't end up sending a house full of windows to the landfill.


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## vsheetz (Sep 28, 2008)

I have a house full of Milgard brand windows. A mid priced window of good quality Retrofit and new construction both. Savings, yes, but hard to quantify in dollars. The before and after comfort level is noticeable.


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