# Drill jumps off screw



## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I really like this new drill but haven't used it much. I'm trying to lower a shelf in garage. Why won't the drill stay in the screwhead? It jumps out. I'm never going to get done or I'm going ti strip the screwhead or nick the wall. 

I have 24 to remove and relocate.

Changing that number didn't seem to help.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Some screw head types are better than others for holding the bit. Torx and Robertson hold the screwdriver bit rather well. Phillips and straight slot are poor for holding the drive bit. 
Loosen the screws a couple of turns with a regular screwdriver. Then you can use your drill. Run drill as slow as practical and PUSH on the drill to keep the bit in the screw.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Am I seeing a slotted screw? Worst of all. My recommendation would be to replace them with torque, makes this old guy look like he knows what he is doing, but that is only half of the problem (the install). Try short bursts at just enough power to get a half turn. When you stop the bit can fall back into the slot. When you run continuous it just keeps working its way out. A new bit would probably help.

Note, once you get converted to torque you will never go back.

Bud


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

It’s hard enough to keep a straight blade screwdriver centered in the slot. It’s harder yet to keep the bit centered as it spins much faster.

Change the screws to Phillips, Torx, or Square drive heads and you will find it much easier. 

For your current task, concentrate on keeping the driver straight and operate it at slow speed. (Speed is controlled first by a switch (low speed for driving, high speed for drilling) and secondly by how much you pull the trigger switch.

The numbered ring is a clutch setting for torque. Lower numbers allow less torque to be applied to the screw, higher numbers applie more. The last position usually locks the clutch up. Locking the clutch is usually only used for drilling.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Pushing tighter to hold the bit in the head, usually works, as stated try to loosen with a wrist activated driver first. 

Sometimes the bit has " Cammed" out and slips, but you say that things are still new, so maybe that is not a problem. 

Also is important to match the bit to the screw, there are screws that look similar, but are different enough that another bit is needed. 


ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

SPS. Can't budge it by hand. The man that built this house 35 yrs ago was really tall. I love shelves but not getting a stepstool every time. I'll do a few at a time till my arms tire. Its a lot of work to only lower 4" without more complex work but I'll be happier.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Make sure you have the proper bit that fits the screw. Most people use a bit that is too small.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Can't budge it by hand.


Any hardware store or big box will sell screwdrivers that are either square shaft or some have a hex on the round shaft. They allow you to put a wrench on them to apply more twisting force. 

Hold the screwdriver straight and push in with your dominate hand. Apply the wrench and turn with the off hand.

The other tools I like are either a brace with a screwdriver bit, or a speed wrench with the appropriate screwdriver socket. Either one will really let you lean into the tool and apply the forward pressure.

The attached pic is a vintage craftsman speed wrench, Incase there is a question on what’s a speed wrench. The enlarged head at the top of the tool allows more pressure than a lot of the more modern ones.


Take one of the screws you have removed with you when you shop for a new screwdriver. It will let you or the tool guy select the appropriate sized driver for the slot.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

Once the screw is back out 1/4" or so, take out the bit and tighten the 
chuck directly on the screw head.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If you could locate a bit to fit the Brace hanging on your wall you would have the power to move the screws until your cordless may work.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

In a pinch, I've purchased a square shank screwdriver, hacksawed the handle off, then chucked the square shaft up in the brace.

The other item is to buy a 3/8 driver for the brace. Lets you use any 3/8 socket with the brace. That way you can use Allen wrench, torx, and other available 3/8 socket bits.

My known source is
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32300
See item "D"


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

If you can't turn them by hand, you are never going to unscrew them with a drill. They seem pretty high up. Could be that you are having trouble pushing on the screwdriver, if you leverage is poor. Maybe see if you can finds a stool to stand on so you can put some body-weight on the screwdriver (and drill). To put bodyweight on the screwdriver I think you want the screw about level with your belly or chest. Stool or sawhorse works better for me --- stepladder just wants to tip over.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Don't use slotted screws.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> Don't use slotted screws.



I agree, they should be outlawed. I don't even like phillips very well after switching to torx head.


I personally would take the slotted heads out using a screwdriver. Using a drill driver is too hard on drywall and fingers.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Go to your hardware store and buy a bit that has a spring loaded sleeve around the slotted bit. It will keep the slotted bit from sliding out of the slot, works great, but even then you have to keep the drill straight with the screw.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Find a little pipe that just fits over the screw and the driver.


Vise grips.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Looked up screw heads and amazed at how many there are.

Better leverage helps to apply pressure.

I'll buy new screws the same length and thickness but different head. Will I need to predrill a small hole first when putting shelf back up?

No idea why different size screws were used but small ones easier to remove.

Thank you all so much


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

rrmccabe said:


> I agree, they should be outlawed. I don't even like phillips very well after switching to torx head.
> 
> 
> I personally would take the slotted heads out using a screwdriver. Using a drill driver is too hard on drywall and fingers.


You can blame Henry Ford for the Philips, he refused to by Robertson from Canada.:biggrin2:R&P out of England are better than Philips, they are pointed so every size driver fits every size screw.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> I'll buy new screws the same length and thickness but different head. Will I need to predrill a small hole first when putting shelf back up?
> 
> View attachment 537347


 I always pre-drill and if that tall guy that put the shelving up had pre-drilled you wouldn't be having so much trouble.


The hole or holes you pre-drill will somewhat depend on the screws you purchase.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Startingover said:


> Looked up screw heads and amazed at how many there are.
> 
> Better leverage helps to apply pressure.
> 
> ...


 Most time the screws that come in the package with the product are the cheapest junk and should be tossed. Torx are amazing


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

I would use cabinet screws with torx heads. The problem with wood screws like you had in your hand is the shoulder. That type of screw will run in fine until the shoulder contacts the wood, and then, unless you predrill each hole, the shoulder wants to bind it up. And, as you already found, the heads on that style screw are not as conducive to use with a power bit. Most likely whatever package of cabinet screws you choose will have the corresponding bit with it, but if not they'll be standard T20 or T25. If you want to stay with the type screw you have now, for whatever reason, you can buy pilot drills with the right taper specifically for your #8 or 10 woodscrews.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Possibly things have changed, but the last shelf brackets I installed were made with a tapered recess for the screw head and the purpose is for alignment. A flat head screw fulfills that requirement and the type of driver is optional.


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## rrmccabe (Sep 3, 2018)

Nealtw said:


> You can blame Henry Ford for the Philips, he refused to by Robertson from Canada.:biggrin2:R&P out of England are better than Philips, they are pointed so every size driver fits every size screw.



Yea the Robertson would have been a much better solution. I subscribe to a woodworking training video series and my instructor is out of New Brunswick and seems he uses them exclusively with good results.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

People must be hungry for Robertson's. I bought these finish screws ( thousands ) 1" and 1.5" at a garage sale years ago for 10 bux / bucket and sold some on e-bay. I could hardly build boxes fast enough to keep up with sales demand. Gave the kids all they would need the remainder of their life and still have plenty for my needs.


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

Nealtw said:


> You can blame Henry Ford for the Philips, he refused to by Robertson from Canada.:biggrin2:R&P out of England are better than Philips, they are pointed so every size driver fits every size screw.


I was told that Ford wanted a kickback from Robertson, who refuesed. Phillips went along with the kickback.


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## Deaknh (Mar 24, 2018)

Try some spax screws. No predrilling and I havent stripped out a head in the many years I've been using them. More expensive than other screws, but worth every penny.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

fireguy said:


> I was told that Ford wanted a kickback from Robertson, who refuesed. Phillips went along with the kickback.


This says the GM was the first to use it.nline2long:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_F._Phillips


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

As if we need more screw confusion. Home Depot has these listed as Spax, Square drive, Phillips, OH BOY. Print whatever it takes to get more sales exposure.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> As if we need more screw confusion. Home Depot has these listed as Spax, Square drive, Phillips, OH BOY. Print whatever it takes to get more sales exposure.


 They have been around for a few years, not much meat left.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

This is what I think Big Jim is talking about. You pull down on the area that says DeWalt and a sleeve covers the screw making it harder for the bit to slip out. As Jim stated, you still have to be straight, steady, and firm while pushing down, but it's a great help once you get the hang of it.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> This is what I think Big Jim is talking about. You pull down on the area that says DeWalt and a sleeve covers the screw making it harder for the bit to slip out. As Jim stated, you still have to be straight, steady, and firm while pushing down, but it's a great help once you get the hang of it.


 It's the one with the plastic sleeve that slides out over the screw.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Anybody here know if the European square drive is identical to the Robertson? 
A few times, I have thought about spending the bucks for a nice Wera screwdriver set, but the photos of their square drive sure look like the sides are parallel. A Roberston has a 2.5 degree draft.


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## Californiadecks (Aug 30, 2012)

Wera makes the best bit holders Wiha makes the best bits. Imo. My company uses them daily and aggressively. 


____________________________________


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## Fish_Stick (Feb 28, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> As if we need more screw confusion. Home Depot has these listed as Spax, Square drive, Phillips, OH BOY. Print whatever it takes to get more sales exposure.



Spax does make several dual driver screws and they are superior to Phillips. The center looks a little strange but a square or Phillips bit will work in them. They work well with the square bit but the torx version is still better. GRK is another good brand since they have coatings for outdoor and pt usage for the R4 screws.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Can't tell you how many projects I started then quit mid project when I hit a snag.

Got all the screws out........except one an yes head about stripped. Theres a husky man a few houses down I might ask if I see him walking past. 

Another neighbor may have vice grips i could borrow an see if that works. I hate to buy them for one lousy screw

Otherwise i'm going to try an cut it off with my Sawzall. Altho I don't think theres enough space for Sawzall blade.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Startingover said:


> Can't tell you how many projects I started then quit mid project when I hit a snag.
> 
> Got all the screws out........except one an yes head about stripped. Theres a husky man a few houses down I might ask if I see him walking past.
> 
> ...


With any of the other screws you could just drill the head off with a drill the same size as the shank. Or grind the head off if you had a small grinder like a dermal.
With a slot screw you would have to start with a very small hole to give a start with a bigger drill.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Neal. I do have a Dremel! That sound like something I could do. Ok, i have several options now! Yay. All is not lost.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Wear eye and face protection, I have had many of those cut off wheels, explode on me. 

And you don't want any shards in an eye, or your body.


ED


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## Robbll (Oct 15, 2018)

Maybe if you held the drill a little closer to the angle of the screw...


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I hate flat screws. I had to take out some closet rods/shelves that were installed with those combo drywall anchor hooks. They were like 3" long screws. What a pain!


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Another neighbor may have vice grips i could borrow an see if that works. I hate to buy them for one lousy screw


Vice grips are a tool that you find many uses for once you have them. 

They grip like no other type of plier. People that use them often buy multiple sizes and types of them.


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## flannelman (Nov 3, 2013)

find a IRWIN DRILL DRIVER SET. there is a sleeve type driver for your drill. Put the bit in the slot, slide the sleeve over the screw and slowly remove the screw.


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## toydaddy (Aug 6, 2018)

It appears from the pic that part of your problem is that the drill must be as straight as possible with the axis of the screw. Any small angle of misalignment with the screw encourages the sip to come out of the screw. Another issue is the wear of the Phillips tip of the driver. Pnce it becomes worn the edges round over and tend to jump out. If the tip looks "worn" replace it with a new one. They are cheap, buy a few so you don't have to worry about using a worn/slipping tip. Also, once you are sure you are aligned with the axis of the screw, push in to keep the tip in the screw at least until the screw starts out. 



I would recommend using Torx head screws to put the shelves back up. They stay on the driver tip much better and are easier to use.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Self isn't down yet but went to Home Depot for Torx screws. I need 10. They only had boxes of 80-100 for about $8.80 and they weren't even the size of my old screws. Will try the Hardware store next. 

Since the screws on top left in bracket were short and only in drywall, not the stud I won't bother putting those in.

My daughter is stronger than me and she couldn't budge the stubborn screw. Haven't tried other options yet.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Rae: Those stores should have BINS & BINS of screws that you are looking for, at just pennies each.

Even HD, Did you ask a vest?

ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Yes I asked.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

So either your HD is poorly stocked, OR you got a less than informed vest. 

Try ACE hardware. 

or a Grainger supply, or a local bolt / nut/ screw warehouse. 

ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Just left Ace......Screwless. What I determined is Here in the south we like to keep things simple. We don’t need fancy Torx screws. Old fashion flat an Philips are good enough. [big sigh]

And, Ace didn’t have any Philips my length and wanted me to buy some a smidgen longer. Im have enough trouble without extra screws length.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Startingover said:


> Just left Ace......Screwless. What I determined is Here in the south we like to keep things simple. We don’t need fancy Torx screws. Old fashion flat an Philips are good enough. [big sigh]
> 
> And, Ace didn’t have any Philips my length and wanted me to buy some a smidgen longer. Im have enough trouble without extra screws length.


 Sounds more like the simple are keeping it in the south. I haven't seen a flat head screw for 40 years. except the little ones on light switch covers.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

How much weight do you put on these shelves, how many screws per bracket how many bracket how many feet?


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Neal, pg 1, post #6 is photo of shelf. Only 2 screws were in each bracket and wood. One at top an one at bottom. Other top screw was shorter and only in drywall. 

Maybe a paint can or two, a cooler, emergency fan + radio, a lamp and a spare birdhouse, boots and slip on spikes in case I go up north an want to walk on ice.

Yesterday I read directions an found an chose cutting wheel for Dremel an got it ready. Now I have to wait for weekend when my daughter can hold shelf as I take last screws off.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Don't allow terminology screw you all up. :wink2: These screws pictured are all flat head screws. Wood and Machine screws, it makes no difference, they are all flat head screws. In general, they are made for the head to be recessed or counter bored. In the instance of the wood screws of the OP, those shelf brackets are usually made for the screw head to be counter sunk so they are flat head. The driver can be possibly a dozen or more or whatever the manufacturer wants to put in the flat head screw.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

1 3/4" to 2 1/2" long. like this will do #8 is the screw size
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-B...-Flat-Head-Wood-Screws-2-Pack-27018/203574976


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Please don't pay 92 c each. 273 for 8 bucks is a better buy.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Please don't pay 92 c each.


 that was for 2, it was all I could find that wasn't a whole box.:biggrin2:


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> Just left Ace......Screwless. What I determined is Here in the south we like to keep things simple. We don’t need fancy Torx screws. Old fashion flat an Philips are good enough. [big sigh]
> 
> And, Ace didn’t have any Philips my length and wanted me to buy some a smidgen longer. Im have enough trouble without extra screws length.



You evidently have the worst ACE Hardware in the history of the company. Maybe mine has me spoiled. As I enter I can ask any cashier/clerk where an item is and they can tell me which isle # and which side of the isle. There are small plastic bags to put my selected number of screws/nuts/ cap screws or washers in. They do ask customers to write on the bag the cost /per item and the number of items. They even provide the pencil. As a bonus I get a military discount but I didn't have one of those cards some have, but reciting my military # from 1959 was good nuff for them.:biggrin2:
EDIT EDIT:Their site lists 20 screws you need for $3.39. may have to order for free pick-up.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> You evidently have the worst ACE Hardware in the history of the company. Maybe mine has me spoiled. As I enter I can ask any cashier/clerk where an item is and they can tell me which isle # and which side of the isle. There are small plastic bags to put my selected number of screws/nuts/ cap screws or washers in. They do ask customers to write on the bag the cost /per item and the number of items. They even provide the pencil. As a bonus I get a military discount but I didn't have one of those cards some have, but reciting my military # from 1959 was good nuff for them.:biggrin2:
> Their site lists 20 screw screws you need for $3.39. may have to order for free pick-up.


I have never been in an Ace but we used to see a lot ads on TV and they made it sound like they had every fastener ever made.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe every franchise, or whatever plan they have, is different. Ours seems to have it all from A-Z, fender washers included. I was in an ACE in another state and it seemed as there were sales people working on a commission. Bout drove me nuts.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Our Ace is usually 2x or 3x the price of Home Depot, but it's close. Usually worth the extra cost for convenience.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Half way finished.
Got shelf off yesterday. Lot of sparks cutting stripped screw off with Dremel. I couldnt stand high enough on ladder or The shelf hid the screw so my arms got tired. then decided to take board off brackets and it was easier to work on brackets. I need to patch the drywall where the Dremel left a noticable gouge.

Brackets are gray. I'll be painting wall off white so bought new white brackets for $2.38 ea. Original ones were .69. Holes don't match up an new ones are MUCH lighter weight so I'll reuse sturdy old brackets.

now I'm trying to figure how to put brackets back up (but 4" lower) and get them all level. My level doesn't reach from one to the other. 

Since the original bracket positions were level I'll just measure from old bottom screw hole down 4". Or I can use my yardstick an put my level on top of it.

Im predrilling a pilot hole with drill bit the same size of new screws shaft. 

I fully expect lowering 2nd shelf on opposite wall to be a piece of cake after this experience.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Make your pilot hole smaller than the shaft and not as deep as the screw will go. Screw needs something to dig into.

Bud


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

You may find these charts handy. Terminology is different. I've always used pilot hole/anchor hole but I'm old fashion. You won't need a pilot hole in the first member, the sheet rock, only a anchor hole will be needed with the anchor hole size in the studs. Screw minor diameter.


Note: it isn't too early to tell Santa you need a drill index full of high speed drill bits graduated by 1/64ths to 3/8". The steel index box can be handy as a Go-No Go gauge used to size drill bits for screws.I usually choose bits by guess and by golly but I've been doin this for awhile.:smile:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Spent all morning working on shelf.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Did that other story melt that showed a pic of the twisted off screw, drill and bit?:biggrin2:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Computer trouble. I’ll see if I have better luck on my new phone. 

Put shelf on hold while I decided if I even wanted it back up. With no basement or shed I suppose I do need it. I compromised by cutting off 2’. Hoping garage doesnt look as cluttered. 

I marked a line an used my Sawzall with pruning blade.....thinking wood is wood, right? Wrong. The board was ok but crooked an the longer I looked at it the more it bothered me. I glanced over at a table and by magic there was a wood blade. So I took another foot off the board and did s much better job. I used a file an smoothed the edge. At least i only have to deal with 4 brackets now, not five. 

Drilled a skinny pilot hole an got one bracket started. 

This is where it all went downhill. Was it because I was feeling cocky up till now and the universe decided that wouldn’t do?

Drilled 2nd pilot hole. Ah, but my drill came away with the bit stuck in the wall. No problem I was just going to cut it off. First got pliers an was happy to pull it out. 

Tried to put one of my brand new screws in but it would only go half way in. 

Im using 2 drills. One for pilot hole and a battery drill to screw. I thought maybe pilot hole wasn't big enough so used a bigger bit. Then I pushed too hard and the part of the drill that holds the bit kinda went thru some of the drywall. ( leaving big opening in drywall but I assume the pilot hole was fine) Then i switched drills in case my battery was low an used power drill. Screw seemed to be going in fine but then felt very loose like i missed the stud an it was going in drywall only. 

I didn’t even need to reverse the drill to get it out. I used my fingers an pulled it out. 

I should say ‘what was left of it’. The screw broke in half. Only half came out. 

I know when I’m beat so I quit for the day. 

I could skip this brack an cut more off my board......yes, it will soon be too short to bother with. 

I might buy a shorter bracket so I don’t have to deal with that troublesome hole with the broken screw still in it.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

What am I doing wrong?

For 2nd time my drill bit got stuck in wall while making pilot hole. I thought I was safe reversing drill as I pulled it out.

This time I can't get it out and I can't leave it as its the bracket hole I need to anchor bracket in stud.

I've tried reattaching both drills to it but that didn't work. 

My neighbors vise grip?

I 'd hate paying someone to finish this job after all my effort. I got one bracket in perfectly and almost quit for the day while I was ahead.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Those friction chucks on modern drills do not hold a bit tight enough IMHO, So a visegrip tool should be able to remove it, just be careful, those small bits can snap off easily. 

Drills used to take a chuck key to tighten them tight to hold the bits, but the modern friction chucks are too weak often to hold a bit. 

Maybe a brace and bit would be better, bet you don't have one of those :vs_laugh:, So after you get the bit loose, be easier on the drill that you have, and hope to not get it stuck again.



ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

To keep the screw from breaking there are a couple things you can do other than a pilot hole. Use a bar of soap or a candle, rub the threads across the bar of soap or candle so the screw thread loads up, this will make the screw go in very easy. If you don't want to use soap or a candle, when the screw gets a little hard to go in, back the screw out a little, then go back to screwing it in, when it gets tight again just repeat. The screw will go in a little further each time.

If you have a broken off screw you can not get out, you can angle the screw and by pass it, but the screw head will sit at an angle, if the looks of that don't bother you, it will still work.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

de-nagorg said:


> Maybe a brace and bit would be better, bet you don't have one of those :vs_laugh:


She has one and it's hanging on the wall post #6, but I'd be surprised if she has bits for it.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> For 2nd time my drill bit got stuck in wall while making pilot hole. I thought I was safe reversing drill as I pulled it out.
> 
> ...


Yes, those drill chucks are pitiful, but for those that may not have enough hand strength to hold the chuck while tightening a bit with the drill clutch setting on maximum there is a substitution you can make for your hand. It's called a pipe wrench and adjusted so the drill chuck just fits in the jaws you'll gain the strength needed. No DIY'er should be caught without a quality 6" pipe wrench at minimum.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

SeniorSitizen said:


> She has one and it's hanging on the wall post #6, but I'd be surprised if she has bits for it.


Dang you're right. I knew that I had seen one recently, but forgot where.

You're probably right, were there ever bits that small made for one?

Smallest that I remember was 1/4 inch. 


ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

There must be some nasty wood in that wall, You have to be very careful with stuck drill bits, they are very brittle and will snap off easily. I would question the drill motor you are using. You likely need one that plugs in with the old fashion drill chuck on it so it can hold the bit better. The kind of drill you can buy at a junk store for $10


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

It appears to me that hex shank drill bits with speed fit adapter and screwdriver bits is whats needed here.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

hkstroud said:


> It appears to me that hex shank drill bits with speed fit adapter and screwdriver bits is whats needed here.


 What happen when you need to pull on them when in reverse?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Some day, when the votes are all in, I'm thinking this one will be judged a - Classic -:biggrin2:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Went to HD (again. I'm getting pretty chummy with them)

When I used pliers an tried to wiggle the bit, which was stick in the wall, it snapped off. Now granted I don't know much but whats with these metal things breaking in half? First the screw now the bit. 

As for zinc screws they don't seem very strong. I've hearly stripped a couple (Philips) tightening them. Besides the broken one. Why aren't they steel or something strong?

I did notice when taking shelf down that a couple of screws were angled and guessed it was when that person had trouble hitting the stud. Yes, i was able to angle a screw in the spot where the broken bit is. Will definatrly try wax on the screws.

I would have stayed out there working but lighting is poor at night. I'm just excited to have 2 brackets up. I've averaged one a day. Good thing my livelihood doesn't depend on me doing this for a living.

Not to change the subject but this outlet in a pipe isn't convenient. I have a regular switch flush in the wall farther down. Why isn't this flush? I noticed in my daughters garage she has normal outlets all over but in one spot she has one in a pipe.

Thanks for all your help and support.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Startingover said:


> Went to HD (again. I'm getting pretty chummy with them)
> 
> When I used pliers an tried to wiggle the bit, which was stick in the wall, it snapped off. Now granted I don't know much but whats with these metal things breaking in half? First the screw now the bit.
> 
> ...


 The outlet was added later


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Startingover said:


> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> For 2nd time my drill bit got stuck in wall while making pilot hole. I thought I was safe reversing drill as I pulled it out.
> 
> ...



I was thinking that was drywall, is that a stucco wall? Did the drill ever get to the wood?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

In my opinion you need to get an old pre owned 2x4 that's hard as the hubs of hell and practice boring holes and installing screws using the bit sizes listed in the charts I provided.


Here is a tip. For those small bits in wood, run your drill as fast as it will run with a charged battery. Now, bore in about a quarter inch back the bit out then repeat. This will allow the drill bit flutes to clean and cool some. Once you've accomplished that, do the pilot hole / anchor hole thing and fasten a scrap piece of 1x lumber to the 2x4. Remember when attaching two pieces, the anchor hole is bored first then the pilot hole only through the first member. This method keeps the two holes concentric.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

It's drywall. An outside wall of brick house.

Wish I'd thought to practice on scrape of wood before this. The HD guy also just told me to not use too much force. I was using same theory as when removing screws, pushing hard.

What simplier thing is there besides using screws but I've certainly botched it up. I had an old pipe wrench of my dads but havent seen it for awhile.

I have other things to do tomorrow but wish I could finish up out there. It was too hot in garage this summer. My overhead door has screens. A little Lynyrd Skynyrd fir company and its not bad working in there.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> What happen when you need to pull on them when in reverse?


 The bits can be chucked into the drill like regular drill bits (with no possibility of spin). Or they can be snapped into and locked in the Speed Fit. To remove the bits from Speed Fit you slide the sleeve back to unlock bits. Speed Fit is just a fast way to change bits.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover;5680609
Wish I'd thought to practice on scrape of wood before this. The HD guy also just told me to not use too much force. I was using same theory as when removing screws said:


> ****************************************************
> 
> I can teach you how to push hard boring holes and make your own wood bit that won't snap off but that will be in lesson #2.:vs_laugh:


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Startingover,
You definitely should get a set of the hex shank drill bits. A little cheaper with out the Speed Fit. They will definitely end the drill bits spinning problem. Tell your daughter you got them so she can borrow them, she will love you more for it.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)




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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)




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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> View attachment 539531



I'm betting Florida is sinking.:biggrin2:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I have no words. 

This was concern but I don’t want to drill any more hole in these studs. So I’m saying this is the look I was going for. I’ll put last bracket on an call it a day. 

I measured with a level the bottom of each bracket. 

Im still moving 2 shelves on the opposite wsll.

Senior, thats a great answer if anyone comments

This is a load bearing wall so do alll these holes in studs matter much


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

No, the holes in the studs won't hurt a thing.

If you want to get the shelf level, just measure off the floor or the ceiling to the shelf, they should be level enough for shelving. Just take one end bracket and the center bracket loose from the wall and move up or down. Just put one screw in the two brackets and step back and see if that looks good enough to you. That way if you need to readjust it, you only have to pull one screw in two brackets.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Ok I’ll try moving 2 brackets. I’ll do this before adding 4th bracket.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Why move any bracket?


Get a few flat washers, and shim under the shelf until you get it level.

That is one washer in the middle under the shelf, and 2 or more washers between the shelf and the bracket on the next one over, then get the remaining bracket up where it needs to be. 

No one but you and I will know that there are shims under there, unless they inspect it.

And I don't tell tales about anything a lady does. 

ED


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Have you ever used slip sticks to measure from here to there? A couple of yard sticks work just fine in many instances. I've found they are so handy in so many places in situations as yours I leave the tape measure alone collecting dust. Mine are usually just for one job then the wood may be used for something else, but some day I may make a good keeper set of several different lengths.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I like the idea of shimming the shelf. Ha, I have 2 quarters leveling out a table leg.

Do I just lay washers on bracket or put a screw thru them when I screw down the shelf?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Screw through the washer hole, keeps the washer in place while you are driving the screw. 

A lot easier than realigning the entire assembly. 


ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Wow. I'm giddy with happiness over this shelf. Once I stood higher, using ladder instead of stool, I could see the 3rd bracket was too low. I removed it and (by now I'm 'almost' a whiz with my 2 drills) raised it, using level at every step. Installed 4th bracket and done! 

While I'm on a roll I prepared to lower the 2 shelves on opposite wall.

Question about support.

Shelf I just finished has 4 brackets each 30" apart, on 90" shelf

The opposite wall has only 3 shelf brackets 50" apart, on 100" shelf

I could have saved myself some work by using one less bracket this week.

What determines support spacing? Shelfs are 12" wide.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

For me it's a bracket in every available stud. That ensures that if I put a few coffee cans full of hardware on the shelf, that it will support the weight, but it often depends on what is more balanced looking. 

Never trust a shelf bracket just supported by drywall. 

ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks Ed. Speaking of coffee cans ful of hardware.......while I'm organizing I think I need to toss the many cans of assort nails, nuts, screws and whatever. When I was 25 we had an addition put on. I started saving nails just in case I ever needed one. I have finishing nails and penny nails. Why, I'm asking myself. I'll save a couple and toss the rest.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> Wow. (by now I'm 'almost' a whiz with my 2 drills)


I had a feeling practice would help.:biggrin2:


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Startingover said:


> Thanks Ed. Speaking of coffee cans ful of hardware.......while I'm organizing I think I need to toss the many cans of assort nails, nuts, screws and whatever. When I was 25 we had an addition put on. I started saving nails just in case I ever needed one. I have finishing nails and penny nails. Why, I'm asking myself. I'll save a couple and toss the rest.


Funny you should mention this. Trying to organize my old shed, the one I used for tools and supplies before I built the barn, I noticed about half the old work bench is still covered with every conceivable container of nails and such. Some were old coffee cans I'd inherited from my father, others were in odd containers I'd picked up second hand at yard sales, and most were purchased new for some project and the unused portion left in whatever container was handy.

I thought about throwing the whole rusting lot away, but that would be a lot to drag to the curb, and I doubt the trash company would take a bag that heavy. I'll have to slip them into other bags a little bit at a time.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Startingover said:


> Thanks Ed. Speaking of coffee cans ful of hardware.......while I'm organizing I think I need to toss the many cans of assort nails, nuts, screws and whatever. When I was 25 we had an addition put on. I started saving nails just in case I ever needed one. I have finishing nails and penny nails. Why, I'm asking myself. I'll save a couple and toss the rest.


I have a different thought, Take those unwanted fasteners to your local Habitat foe humanities or a similar charity, and donate them, Someone can and will use and appreciate the gift.

ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

What an amateur i was when I was younger. (Last week) It took an entire day for each bracket. Today I moved one whole shelf! It’s just tiniest bit off so I’ll shim it. I used level at every single step.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

And the _*Persistent Award* _goes to, soft drum roll please - *Startingover* -


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

:vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap::vs_clap:

You're a knockout. 

:vs_box::vs_box:


ED


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Awww. Gee. Thank you all, couldn’t have done it without your generous offer of support an advice. 

I love this garage (my first). I’ll post finished photos when its cleaned. Used 3 buckets of water just cleaning one shelf. Probably hadn't been done in 35 yrs. 

This was a nice diversion from my tedious household chores. Plus a good physical workout.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

SO, before long you will be hiring yourself out to others to finish off their home improvement projects! Well done.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

2 things. 
Really need to quit tweaking things in garage an consentrate on Turkey dinner but can't tear myself away. 

Had old cheap clock in garage that went thru batteries every 2 months. When mowing or whatever I lose track of time if I don’t see a clock. Bought new one then someone said humidity in garage make kill batteries. Hmmm. The garage seems dry. I have clothes rack near water heater an items dry quickly. Haven’t noticed a humidity problem. 

2nd thing. 

Notice the raised area around my garage? Why? It goes around around 3 walls. Yes, friends have said it's a trip hazard. Everyone else has a garage with level floor an they merely have a 3” step into house.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

WHEW, you don't know how bad I wanted to skip opening this for fear you were sending it from the ER because of falling from a ladder.:sad:
Can't answer the 2 questions and when that happens I usually blame things such as that on government legislation.


But you do have a neat Ole Buck Saw on display. :biggrin2:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

*Re: Dril jumps off screw*

Senior, ha. You're funny. 
didn't know that 2 person saw had a name. Thanks. It was my dads an we used it 25 yrs ago when I wanted apple tree logs for a friends fireplace.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

All done. Had tall shelving unit which looked cluttered. Threw it out. Then ran out brought it in and removed top half. Short part is handy. Its wonderful to be able to reach top shelf now. I like the table to unload the car onto.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Custom size home made spade bits Startingover can't break. Sharpened on this old grinder after the anvil sizing. This bit is from a 8d nail for #8 wood screws. Price: about a dime a dozen unless you place an order then the price goes up dramatically to 2 bits for 1 cherry or apple pie.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Wish that door wasn't there, (under my new shelves). Its from my bathroom and former owners removed it because when open it blocks the bathroom window. There are other pocket doors in the house and if anywhere needed one it was here. 

I'd like to drag it up to the attic on those pull down stairs. But can't manage. Its oak and really heavy.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Senior, I always repay favors with baked goods.:smile:

Where'd you get that grinder? And how'd you learn to make bits?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> Senior, I always repay favors with baked goods.:smile:
> QUOTE]
> For some reason I knew that about the baked goods.:biggrin2:
> I learned to make those bits, probably from older brothers or uncles, in the 1940's. Those were just hammered to size and not sharpened. It's difficult to believe but those home made bits from nails were used in a brace like you have hanging on your wall. I still have my Father's brace. I've always thought the nail bits we made were the predecessor to the spade bit because I suspect we weren't the only kids making them.
> ...


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Senior, you're quite talented. Clever using nails. You know the old proverb, "necessity is the mother of invention"


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> "necessity is the mother of invention"


We didn't invent much but we sure took advantage of that old adage of making do with the resources we had. Making a rope sure beat driving a Model-A 75 miles round trip to buy a rope.


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