# PRIMER---KILZ vs ZINSSER 1-2-3



## Colbyt

4 coats may have a bearing on that. Just a WAG.


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## ZTMAN

I didn't put four coats on. Two coats on one side with Zinsser, two coats on the other side wall with Kilz. Big difference between the two. Had to put one more coat of Zinsser on the Kilz side to make it look white. 
Keep on waggin though :thumbsup:


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## Colbyt

That is one of the tougher things to paint.


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## ZTMAN

Colbyt said:


> That is one of the tougher things to paint.


You are right. Best way I found is 9" foam roller. The foam roller doesn't load the peg board holes with paint. Spraying would probably be best, but I don't have a sprayer, or the desire to tape off a garage.


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## ToolSeeker

In my opinion mistake to not paint.


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## ZTMAN

I would be interested in your opinion as to why. If I need to paint it, I will.


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## Nestor_Kelebay

If you need to paint it, and you can't find an oil based paint, then use a latex Porch & Floor paint to get the hardest drying paint you can.

You don't need to use an exterior paint on the inside of a garage. Exterior paints have UV blockers and mildewcides in them, neither of which you need inside a garage.

Also, I would have continued to put more coats of KILZ on simply because it's an alkyd primer. It'll dry to a harder film which you need to stand up well on a peg board.

Generally, I'm an anti-KILZ guy because most people use KILZ for all the wrong reasons. KILZ is nothing more than an ordinary alkyd primer that uses a lot of naptha as it's thinner instead of mineral spirits. Here's the MSDS sheet for KILZ primer:

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic993183.files/Kilz_MSDS.pdf

It uses an ordinary alkyd resin. That makes it an ordinary alkyd primer.

The magnesium silicate (also known as talcum powder) is the extender pigment that makes it dry to a flat finish. The more talcum powder and the more coarsely ground it is, the flatter the finish the KILZ dries to.

The titanium dioxide is what makes KILZ white.

What's different is the solvents in it. Instead of it using just mineral spirits as the thinner, it uses a mixture of 60 percent naptha and 40 percent mineral spirits instead.

Naptha is camping fuel, and campers know that you need a fuel that will evaporate fast enough to keep a camp cook stove going even on a windy day. It's that very high evaporation rate of naptha that results in KILZ drying quickly, but so many people presume that it's somehow chemically different than oil based primers just because of that rapid drying rate. In most cases, people using KILZ would actually be better off using an ordinary alkyd primer because the slower drying will allow for better self leveling and less brush strokes showing up in their painting.

So, people use KILZ only because others recommend it, but the only reason they're recommending it is because they think it's fundamentally different than an ordinary alkyd primer, but in fact it isn't. It's an ordinary alkyd primer that just dries a lot faster because it's thinner consists of mostly naptha instead of mineral spirits.

So, when you use KILZ, what evaporates into the air is different than if you had used an ordinary alkyd primer. But, what remains on the wall is exactly the same as it would be had you used an ordinary alkyd primer. Keep that in mind next time someone recommends KILZ as a primer.


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## ToolSeeker

To not paint it, just primer is soft and will scratch easy. And unfinished primer tends to turn yellow quickly. On your primer test the Kilz side (although I don't use it) may have been fine. Primer does not cover like paint so to see through the primer really doesn't mean anything. When primed with 123 you can usually see the substate under it. That's why we topcoat with paint.

And unless it was Kilz original what he used was probably latex. Isn't original the only oil they make anymore.


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## Nestor_Kelebay

ToolSeeker said:


> And unfinished primer tends to turn yellow quickly.


Alkyd primer doesn't yellow any more quickly or slowly than alkyd paint.

Latex primers don't yellow. Neither do latex paints. Both will get dirty with age, tho.


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## ZTMAN

One wall has dried for a few days. Gave it a test scratch, finish is solid and hard. Almost like a satin finish. I am going to leave the primer for a few weeks to see how it holds up. Pic of one wall after primer, pic of other wall before. I put semi-gloss on the trim.


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## chrisn

As has been mentioned you would be wise to put some real paint on there, for a number of reasons.


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## ddawg16

I'm sure if you had put 2 more coats of Kilz on there, it would have looked just as good.

But you need to understand the purpose of primer....it's not to hide but to give the paint a good surface to stick to.


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## Nestor_Kelebay

ddawg16 said:


> But you need to understand the purpose of primer....it's not to hide but to give the paint a good surface to stick to.


A good primer will do both, Dawg. But, your point is well taken that the term "primer" simply means an initial coating that allows for improved adhesion of a subsequent coating.

Aside:
I actually think the garage looks better unprimed.


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## ddawg16

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Aside:
> I actually think the garage looks better unprimed.


Looks better? Sort of.....but I prefer function over looks....the lighter color reflects more light.


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## ZTMAN

I like the white because it makes the garage feel much larger. Just a personal preference. Used to give me that dungeon feel when I walked in.


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## klaatu

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Alkyd primer doesn't yellow any more quickly or slowly than alkyd paint.
> 
> Latex primers don't yellow. Neither do latex paints. Both will get dirty with age, tho.


WRONG! I have a sample of Behr Marquee I painted out last September that is almost antique white already! Was just straight white. Put the board in a file drawer so it could dry without getting dusty and forgot about it until a week ago. It has very visibly yellowed in the last year. I put a drop of paint from the same can on it to check the color. It's definitely yellowed.


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## klaatu

This actually might have been a good situation for a paint and primer in one product. I actually think you would have been better off with two coats of paint then two coats of primer. Especially on the pegboard. I had to paint some pegboard at my last job, and I asked a painter friend of mine what the best way to paint it was without filling all of the holes. She said to have one of the minions paint it. I asked her "what if I'm the minion?" She said "quit."


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## ZTMAN

I was thinking about the paint with primer, but went with just the primer. The foam roller did a good job applying without filling the pegboard holes. I am going to do an experiment. I am going to leave on side primer and paint the other side and see how they age. If the primed wall yellows, I will paint that as well


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## Nestor_Kelebay

klaatu said:


> WRONG! I have a sample of Behr Marquee I painted out last September that is almost antique white already! Was just straight white. Put the board in a file drawer so it could dry without getting dusty and forgot about it until a week ago. It has very visibly yellowed in the last year. I put a drop of paint from the same can on it to check the color. It's definitely yellowed.


Normally latex primers and paints don't yellow.

You might want to your local Behr sales rep about that Marquee paint.


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## chrisn

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Normally latex primers and paints don't yellow.
> 
> You might want to your local Behr sales rep about that Marquee paint.


:laughing::laughing::laughing: good luck!:laughing:


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## ToolSeeker

I have never had a problem with paint yellowing but I have with primer left unpainted.


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## ZTMAN

So how long does it normally take if it is going to yellow. This will be a good test


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## klaatu

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Normally latex primers and paints don't yellow.
> 
> You might want to your local Behr sales rep about that Marquee paint.


Why? They're my competition! And I am well aware that something is very wrong with this Marquee stuff. Something is rotten in China!


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## jeffnc

ZTMAN said:


> After two coats you could still see the brown hue of the peg board, almost looked dirty/muddy.


I think you're missing the point of the primer. It's not to hide. That's basically what finish paint is for. It may turn out that 123 hides better than Kilz, and if so if that helps you, it's a bonus for 123. But what you've demonstrated doesn't say anything about which primer is better because you're not talking about what the primers were designed to do.

Which is not to say Kilz is better than 123. But if 123 is better, it's because it does the things a primer is supposed to do better than Kilz, not because it hides better.

There is such a thing as color priming, but this isn't it.


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## jeffnc

klaatu said:


> I actually think you would have been better off with two coats of paint then two coats of primer.


Probably. Especially since a priority is hiding well in 2 coats.

Spraying would be my preferred method for coating. A foam roller might keep paint out of the holes, but it also puts on a very thin film. Spraying does too, but it's an even spray. Even with a foam roller, you're not getting a completely even film thickness.


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## HicksBenedict

Zinsser is great for hiding imperfections like scratches or cracks. They're also perfect if you want to create an elegant, sophisticated look in your home.

Zinsser is the classic choice for homeowners, and its prowess as a coating speaks volumes. Zinsser has been around since 1925 when they first began making exterior paints at their factory in upstate New York with an emphasis on quality materials like high-quality oils & pigments that give durability without sacrificing ease of application or gloss levels (topcoat). 

Kilz primer was introduced to North American consumers by artist Leo Schwab who wanted something less expensive than damp paint while still maintaining good coverage over large surfaces - this said product does just what he asked; offers economy but delivers top-notch results!

The Zinsser vs Kilz primer debate is one that many painters and homeowners alike have been discussing. We have broken it down for you so that this decision becomes much easier!

These days, it's not unusual for a painter to have more than one favorite paint. There are pros and cons with each type that will allow you as an artist the opportunity to explore different traits in your work!


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## chandler48

6 year old thread. Check your dates.


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