# Need HELP swapping a Vision pro 8320u1008 to an IAQ one



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

I need help swapping from a current Vision Pro TH8320U1008 to a newer IAQ thermostat. 

I will take pics of thecurrent wiring for reference. Would I gain anything from changing to this thermostat. My main goal is control humidification from my air handler to slow my VS blower.



This is what I have wired currently on the vision pro. It looks like I have extra wires to wire in the outdoor sensor. My model #'s for my Furnace and Heat Pumps are:


My Heat Pump is Model FT5BD-048K and Furnace B5VM-T49K-C











Thanks,
Tony


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Which Brand of heatpump and air handler do you have?


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> Which Brand of heatpump and air handler do you have?


Both of them are frigidaire By Nordyne. Model #'s for them are:

Heat Pump Model FT5BD-048K

Furnace B5VM-T49K-C


Here is a pic of the wiring on the Air handler










Here is a pic of the dip switch settings on the air hander


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

By looking at the wiring it only uses 4 wires coming from the Heatpump outise. 

Cyan Blue --- C

Red --- R

Yellow -Y1

Orange -O

-------------------------------------

Inside wiring towards thermostat is usng 6 wires.

Cyan Blue --- C

Red --- R

Yellow -Y1

Orange -O

White --W2

Green-- G


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Fridgidaire not popular where I am. Hang in there, one of the other techs may help if you can wait a day.


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm not that familiar with Nordyne VS units, but I don't see a DeHum anywhere to slow blower down 20% for dehumidification. Does the Pro 8000 stat you have now have dehum? That could be set and it would run a/c up to 3 deg lower than setting to try and reach desired humidity level.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> I'm not that familiar with Nordyne VS units, but I don't see a DeHum anywhere to slow blower down 20% for dehumidification. Does the Pro 8000 stat you have now have dehum? That could be set and it would run a/c up to 3 deg lower than setting to try and reach desired humidity level.


If you look at the pic of the dip switches. Their are 2 HUM terminals that are jumped. The Vision Pro 8320 does not have dehumidificaiton control. That is the reason I want to swap it out to the new IAQ VIsion Pro.


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

Sorry I'm used to hum meaning humidify. According to Nordyne it can be used to dehumidify.

*8. OPTIONAL HUMIDISTAT*
*(Variable Speed Only)*
The optional humidistat may be installed in the
return air duct to provide excellent humidity
control when needed and maximum system
capacity and energy effi ciency when humidity
levels are normal. The humidistat senses when
humidity in the return air stream is above a preset
level (fi eld adjustable) and sends a signal to the
motor to reduce the airfl ow so that more moisture
may be removed until the humidity level drops.
The air handler is pre-programmed for humidistat
operation. Remove jumper connector installed
between the two terminals marked “HUM” on
the circuit board.
*Note: *The 15+ SEER air handlers that are
matched with a 2-stage cooling outdoor unit
and the humidistat is installed will not drop
below 75% of the selected blower speed when
the system is operating in lo-cool mode and the
humidistat opens.
*Installation— *Install the humidistat in the return
air duct as directed in the installation instructions
included with the kit. Wire the humidistat through
the low-voltage wire entrance in the air handler
(Figure 1) to the quick-connect terminals marked
“HUM”. Wire the humidistat to open on rise in
humidity.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Sorry I'm used to hum meaning humidify. According to Nordyne it can be used to dehumidify.
> 
> *8. OPTIONAL HUMIDISTAT*
> *(Variable Speed Only)*
> ...


 

So can it be wired into the VIsion Pro IAQ then? Please tell me it can as I have the thermostat here. My intention was to use it to control the humidity in my house. FLorida is Hot and Humid..lol


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

I would say you can wire it up. I am trying to look at installation mauals for IAQ with no luck downloading it yet


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> I would say you can wire it up. I am trying to look at installation mauals for IAQ with no luck downloading it yet


 


Heres are the manuals.


This is the Manual for the EIM that all wires go to.
http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/PackedLit/69-1823EFS.pdf


This is the thermostat itself. IT only uses 3 wires from the EIM

http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/PackedLit/69-1816EFS.pdf


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

Looks like you will wire the two hum terminals from furnace to the two dhum terminals on the interface. Did you configure you old 8000 stat? Configuration can be fun on these


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Looks like you will wire the two hum terminals from furnace to the two dhum terminals on the interface. Did you configure you old 8000 stat? Configuration can be fun on these


 
Yes because the AC installler left it all default and I was having issues. 

I just need to verify the wiring from you guys. You guys are the pros .. I am a pro in networks:thumbup:.


Is this correct.

Wires to the new EIM

Cyan Blue ----------to C

Red -----------------to R,RC,RH

Orange --------------to O/B

White ----------------to Aux

Yellow -----------------to Y

Green ------------------to G

HUM -------------------to HUM1 

HUM -------------------to HUM2


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

I see you are in Fl as well. What is your humidity level in the house? It should be on a properly set up system around 50% these days. If not your system may have not been set up correctly, IE too much airflow, A/C too big ect.

Is this correct.

Wires to the new EIM

Cyan Blue ----------to C

Red -----------------to R,RC,RH

Orange --------------to O/B

White ----------------to Aux

Yellow -----------------to Y

Green ------------------to G

HUM -------------------to DHUM1 

HUM -------------------to DHUM2


Change to these for dehumidification.


I don't know the humidity in my house. How can I tell?

Thanks for all of your HELP... 

Once you get this hooked up it will take awhile but it will tell you.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> I see you are in Fl as well. What is your humidity level in the house? It should be on a properly set up system around 50% these days. If not your system may have not been set up correctly, IE too much airflow, A/C too big ect.


I don't know the humidity in my house. How can I tell?

Thanks for all of your HELP...


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> I see you are in Fl as well. What is your humidity level in the house? It should be on a properly set up system around 50% these days. If not your system may have not been set up correctly, IE too much airflow, A/C too big ect.
> 
> Is this correct.
> 
> ...


 
OK I see getting a Hygrometer is not a bad idea. Like this http://www.amazon.com/TX5170-Indoor-Outdoor-Thermometer-Hygrometer/dp/B000HU8BHM/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_7


Thanks I will wire it in tomorrow morning and see how it goes. My house had a 3.5 ton system before with straight blower. 

I have a 4 Ton system with a VS blower now. I set it to 300 cfm for each ton. It was short cycling before because the thermostat was not setup correctly as well as the furnace.


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

Going up a half a ton, short cycling doesnt help in dehumidification. 300 cfm per ton maybe too low as it will cuase a much greater temp differance and make your ductwork start to sweat. When you get IAQ to work set CFM to 350/ton and let dehum lower when it needs to.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Going up a half a ton, short cycling doesnt help in dehumidification. 300 cfm per ton maybe too low as it will cuase a much greater temp differance and make your ductwork start to sweat. When you get IAQ to work set CFM to 350/ton and let dehum lower when it needs to.


I think the short cycling was caused by not setting the thermostat correct to begin with. It was at default 3 CPH. I set it to 2 cph and it improved alot. I also reduced the VS blower from 1700 cfm to 1295 cfm.

I will install the thermostat and set the VS blower to 350 cfm per ton as you recommend. I will report back after changing out the thermostat tomorrow.

Thanks


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

Your Welcome

I worry about ducts sweating and creating very nasty mold problems (in attic and in walls) when airflow is too low.

Good Luck and I will check in later in the day.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Your Welcome
> 
> I worry about ducts sweating and creating very nasty mold problems (in attic and in walls) when airflow is too low.
> 
> Good Luck and I will check in later in the day.


 
I wired in the thermostat and it worked like a charm first try....pheeewww:thumbsup:. I changed the blower setting from 1295 cfm to 1425. I also wired in the humidity wires to the thermostat. The AC is on now and am verifying everything at this time.

Do i need to cable the outside sensor? What is it used for? I think I can 2 of the extra wires that are available from the outside heatpump.


Things I noticed right away. This new thermostat is 3 degrees different than the Vision Pro that was their. 

This one has a ton of settings. I left most at default but matched closesly what I am using on the existing VIsion Pro.


I have a Raytech temp gun. Where do i measure in my home to adjust the temp diff? My house is 2 story so I know I will have a variance form downstairs.

I walked aroung downstairs and for the most part the Raytech measures between 79-80 degrees. I walk upsatirs and measure and I get 80-82 degrees. Keep in mind it is not hot here today in florida as of now.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You had a 3.5 ton.
Now you have a 4 ton.

Why did you increase in size. Or allow your contractor to increase size. Its probably oversized.

Your air handler is wired wrong. The IAQ won't slow the blower. As long as the thermostat and A/C condenser are incorrectly wired to the Y1 terminal of the air handler.
Since the blower is already at a low speed.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Also. Temp difference between first and second floor. Is probably caused by a combination or not enough return or supply to the upstairs.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You had a 3.5 ton.
> Now you have a 4 ton.
> 
> Why did you increase in size. Or allow your contractor to increase size. Its probably oversized.
> ...


 

What do you mean wired wrong? I am clueless as what you are saying. The outside HP only has 4 wires wired to the air handler. The thermostat has 6 wires going to the air handler. 

Where sohuld the Y1 terminal go then? Should it go to Y then.

Thanks for all of your help. I now see the humidity at 48% on the thermostat. Most homes here needed a 4 ton. The building contractor skimped on the AC units and got away with it.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

I took a picture of the wiring of the Heat Pump. I think I see the problem. The Y should go to Y and not Y1..


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The Y1 of the EIM should go to the Y/Y2 of the air handler. And the Y of the condenser should go there also.

Did the old 3.5 ton have trouble reaching set temp at the thermostat area?

If not, your 3.5 was big enough

Proably most of the homes near you have oversized A/C units. And undersized ductwork.

The same as you now.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> The Y1 of the EIM should go to the Y/Y2 of the air handler. And the Y of the condenser should go there also.
> 
> Did the old 3.5 ton have trouble reaching set temp at the thermostat area?
> 
> ...


 
Yes the old AC unit could not reach set temp most of the time. That is hy the installer suggested a 4 ton. I cannot believe this is not wired correctly. HOw has it been working then? The A/C feels fine.


I will go shut off power at the main and swap in a few. 

Thanks alot for the help.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Its hasn't been running at full cooling ability. So you had reduced cooling.

Wired to Y1, it wasn't running at set CFM per ton.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Undersized ductwork, probably caused most of your cooling problems.

What duct alterations did you do when you increased unit size?


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Its hasn't been running at full cooling ability. So you had reduced cooling.
> 
> Wired to Y1, it wasn't running at set CFM per ton.


 

OK I swapped the Y1 to Y for both. The house is only 6 years old. Do you think the ducting is not big enough?


WOW, the ac came on now and the difference in air coming out of the vents is BIG. 


THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME..... 

I need to figure out where to mount the outside sensor now...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Most new houses don't have undersized A/Cs.
They have undersized duct work. So a 3.5 ton unit, nay only be able to deliver 2.5 tons of capacity.


With your blower only running in low cool. You weren't getting the 4 tons capacity of your A/C.

Outdoor sensor should be on northside of house. Andnot indirect sunlight.


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

A few things I noticed since last night.

1) Beenthere has already addressed (Y1 and Y/Y2)

2) So when in heating mode and your outdoor unit goes into defrost. Wire from condenser board W2 to W2 at A/H. This will tell backup heat to come on if and when defrost is energized.

3) To calibrate temp, go into config. mode #700. I would give the stat a few hours to get used to space temp before calibrating. It should read temp at it's location.

4) I don't like setting dehum setting much below 52%. I find any lower it increases electric usage too much.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Buy yourself a good electronic hygrometer (UEI is a good inexpensive brand) http://www.ueitest.com/product-dth10.html
and test your indoor humidity. Those tstats have a calibration adjustment + or - 5% I believe. If the actual humidity is 45 % calibrate the tstat to 45% or you won`t get good results. They are not always perfectly calibrated by Honeywell.

I was in Orlando several yrs ago, never seen lightning like that before, and humidity, wow.

Good Luck:thumbsup:


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> A few things I noticed since last night.
> 
> 1) Beenthere has already addressed (Y1 and Y/Y2)
> 
> ...


 
Ok so the white wire on the outside unit that is dangling needs to go to W2 and the white wire coming from outside will go to the air handler W2 then.

My humidity is reading 45% at this time. Do i need to set the humidity settings in the thermostat somewhere?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

The actual RH readout of what the tstat is telling you may be out by up to 5% or more. You may need to calibrate it so it reads the actual house humidity or it will be inaccurate, or cost more to run.

installer setup function 701, I checked for you.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

*0370 Indoor humidity sensor*
*1 Internal sensor in thermostat*
0 Sensors disabled
E Auto Discover ** 
*0372 Indoor humidification control*
*E Auto Discover ***
0 Off
1 Humidify (no frost protection)
3 Humidify (with frost protection)
*0374 Humidifier fan action*
*0 Humidify only while fan or heat is on*
1 Humidify forces fan on
2 Humidify only when heat is on
3 Humidifier operates independent of fan 
*0379 Dehumidificationcontrol*
*0 No dehumidification control*
1 Dehumidify with air conditioner
3 Whole house dehumidifier 
*0383 Over-cooling limit*
*3 3°F (1.5°C) *
[Other options: 1, 2 (1°F or 2°F/0.5°C to 1.5°C)] 
*0384 Dehumidificationfan action*
*0 System fan turns on with dehumidifier*
1 Dehumidifier operates independent of fan 
*0400 Ventilation control*
*0 No ventilation*
1 Ventilation always allowed
2 Ventilation not allowed during sleep period
3 Vent all with lockouts
4 Vent off sleep with lockouts 
*0401 Number ofbedrooms*
*2 Two bedrooms *
[Other options: 1 to 6] 
*0402 Size of house*
*10 1,000 square feet *
[Other options: 11 to 50 (1,100 to 5,000 square feet)] 
*0403 Ventilation level*
*160 CFM (cubic feet per minute) *
[Other options: (30 to 195 CFM)]
*0404 Max. ventilation% limit*
*50 50% ventilation limit *
[Other options: 30% to 60% or 100%]
*P *Meets ASHRAE 62.2 standard
*F *Does not meet ASHRAE 62.2 standard 
*0405 Ventilation fanaction*
*1 Ventilation on forces fan on*
2 Ventilation does not force fan on 
*0406 Ventilation in high humidity*
*1 On (heat mode only)*
0 Off 
*0430 Ventilation lockout*
*0 Disabled*
1 Lockout for high temperatures ****
2 Lockout for low temperatures ****
3 Lockout for high and low temperatures *** *
*0431 Ventilation lockout high temperature*
*100 100°F (38°C): Settings 5°F apart (3°C) *
[Other options: (90°F to 110°F/32°C to 43.5°C)] 
*0432 Ventilation lockout low temperature*
*-10 -10°F (-23.5°C): Settings 5°F apart (3°C) *
[Other options: (-20°F to 0°F/-29°C to -18°C)] 
*0450 DATS Inhibit*
*0 Disabled: Settings 5°F apart (3°C) *
[Other options: (35°F to 65°F/1.5°C to 18.5°C)] 

*0530 Adaptive Intelligent Recovery™*
*1 On ***
0 Off 
*0540 Program periods*
*4 4 program periods *(Wake, Leave, Return, Sleep)
2 2 program periods (Wake, Sleep) 
*0580 Compressor offtime (min.)*
*5 5 minute compressor off time ** *
[Other options: 0 to 4 minutes] 
*0600 Heat temperature range stop*
*90 Max. heat temperature setting is 90°F (32°C) *
[Other options: 40 to 90°F (4°C to 32°C)] 
*0610 Cool temperature range stop*
*60 Min. cool temperature setting is 60°F (15°C) *
[Other options: 60-99°F (15°C to 37°C)] 
*0640 Clock format*
*12 12-hour time (i.e., "3:30 pm")*
24 24-hour time (i.e., "15:30")
*0650 Extended fantimer (heat)*
*0 Off *
[Other options: Fan runs for 30, 60, 90 or 120 seconds after call for heating ends] 
*0660 Extended fantimer (cool)*
*0 Off *
[Other options: Fan runs for 30, 60, 90 or 120 seconds after call for cooling ends] 
*0680 Heat temperature control*
*2 Standard temperature control (recommended)*
1 Choose if room is warmer than set temperature
3 Choose if room does not reach set temperature 
*0690 Cool temperature control*
*2 Standard temperature control (recommended)*
1 Choose if room is cooler than set temperature
3 Choose if room does not reach set temperature 
*0700 Temperature display offset*
*0 Thermostat displays actual room temperature *
[Other options: -3°F to +3°F offset (-1.5°C to 1.5°C)] 
*0701 Humiditydisplay offset*
*0 Thermostat displays actual room humidity *
[Other options: -12% to +12% offset] 



Can someone tell me what settings to use? It looks like huumidification is off by default. Am i correct?


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> The actual RH readout of what the tstat is telling you may be out by up to 5% or more. You may need to calibrate it so it reads the actual house humidity or it will be inaccurate, or cost more to run.
> 
> installer setup function 701, I checked for you.


 
Thank YOu, it looks like you have up to a 12% varaince to play with. I will order the meter tomorrow. Thanks for the information on it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Set it to use the A/C to dehumidify. And don't enable extended fan on time.

What other devices/appliances do you have that you will connect to the IAQ.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Set it to use the A/C to dehumidify. And don't enable extended fan on time.
> 
> What other devices/appliances do you have that you will connect to the IAQ.


Just an outside sensor. What else can be hooked up to the IAQ?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Humidifier.
Dehumidifier.
Fresh air vent.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Humidifier.
> Dehumidifier.
> Fresh air vent.


 
Ahh ok. I see thanks. I have none of those on my system.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

This is a better tester and the one I use:
http://www.ueitest.com/product-dth31.html
It is a psychrometer and does temp also, slightly more accurate for humidity according to the specs for both.

You MUST twist open the cap B4 using it or it will get damaged.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Set it to use the A/C to dehumidify. And don't enable extended fan on time.
> 
> What other devices/appliances do you have that you will connect to the IAQ.


 
I forgot to ask. The dipswitch 7 and 8 are set to dehumidify. I need to turn that feature off correct since the IAQ will now handle that.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Read my post above yours, the psychrometer is more accurate for RH readings the other unit is okay for general use.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Mot real familar with that air handler anymore.

But I believe you would be better off turning them off.

The IAQ will be more economical to usethat way.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> Buy yourself a good electronic hygrometer (UEI is a good inexpensive brand) http://www.ueitest.com/product-dth10.html
> and test your indoor humidity. Those tstats have a calibration adjustment + or - 5% I believe. If the actual humidity is 45 % calibrate the tstat to 45% or you won`t get good results. They are not always perfectly calibrated by Honeywell.
> 
> I was in Orlando several yrs ago, never seen lightning like that before, and humidity, wow.
> ...


The lightning scares the heck out of my dog.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

The "One Hr" folks sent me on a "motivational weekend" at one of the major hotels in Orlando. Sweet deal, got a pic with Sugar Ray Leonard. He was one of the speakers along with Vince Lombardi Jr. and others. Drank their booze, ate well and got more "motivated". Trying to get Lennox to do the same for me.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

Just changed the setting for 376 to on to dehumidify. I notice the inside humidity is 46% and the setting on the dehumidify is at 50% and it says auto. What does that mean and should I leave it at that for now?


I just stumbled onto this thread on looking for humidity exlplanations. He is being told to wire it different than mine. Is mine correct? 

http://forum.doityourself.com/thermostatic-controls/398687-honeywell-iaq-dehumidification.html


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Sorry I'm used to hum meaning humidify. According to Nordyne it can be used to dehumidify.
> 
> *8. OPTIONAL HUMIDISTAT*
> *(Variable Speed Only)*
> ...


Can you provide the manual to me or post a link. Thanks


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## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

Site for Nordyne B5VM instructions http://www.nordyne.com/Literature/7087090.pdf


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Not all air handlers wire the same, nor control the blower speed the same way.

So don't worry if wiring instructions are slightly different from someone elses unit.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Not all air handlers wire the same, nor control the blower speed the same way.
> 
> So don't worry if wiring instructions are slightly different from someone elses unit.


I figured that after I asked the question..dohhh


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

KAVF said:


> Site for Nordyne B5VM instructions http://www.nordyne.com/Literature/7087090.pdf



Looking at the manual in Table 5 it has 4 options. Mine is set for Delay A at this time. Do I set it to off since the IAQ will control the VS blower? 

How can I tell the IAQ will slow down the blower?

This past winter it got really cold here adn the heat pump was full of ice and the emergency heat did not work. Is iit because the W2 wire is not connected form the hp to the air handler?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

I would set the air handler for no delay, and let the IAQ handle the blower.

To see if the IAQ is controlling the blower, set its dehumidify setting more then 5% below current humidity.

Yes, without the outdoor unit able to bring on your strip heater, during defrost, you'll get a blast of cold air.

The stat should have brought on the aux heat. But, it may have been set not to bring it on untill it got colder then what the outdoor temp was.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> I would set the air handler for no delay, and let the IAQ handle the blower.
> 
> To see if the IAQ is controlling the blower, set its dehumidify setting more then 5% below current humidity.
> 
> ...


We had the coldest winter ever last year. Alot of my plants died from frost. 

Thanks I will wire in the outdoor temp per your recommendations and fix the W2 wire form the HP to the Air handler tomorrow when I am off. 

The bad part is my dad needs a new AC and I have called like 7 technicians and they are all horrible. I am not bad mouthing techs in general. it is just the ones in my area . I need to find one to put a whole new system in his house as it is on its last legs.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

N01B4ME said:


> We had the coldest winter ever last year. Alot of my plants died from frost.
> 
> Thanks I will wire in the outdoor temp per your recommendations and fix the W2 wire form the HP to the Air handler tomorrow when I am off.
> 
> The bad part is my dad needs a new AC and I have called like 7 technicians and they are all horrible. I am not bad mouthing techs in general. it is just the ones in my area . I need to find one to put a whole new system in his house as it is on its last legs.


 
Keep calling companies, and screen them over the phone.
No use wasting yours and their time.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Keep calling companies, and screen them over the phone.
> No use wasting yours and their time.



The sad thing is I kept calling the installer back to look at my system and he kept telling me their was nothing wrong with it...

I am VERY thankful for you guys here as the AC is working 10x better already with some minor changes.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It is sad. That so many contractors, want to sell VS systems. But have no idea of how that are to be installed or set up.

Glad yours is working better now.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> It is sad. That so many contractors, want to sell VS systems. But have no idea of how that are to be installed or set up.
> 
> Glad yours is working better now.


 
The sad thing is I have spent well over ??? and I am on here getting help from you guys to fix it.:furious:

I really appreciate all of the help given here. My electric bill went from 200 to 340 a month back down to 230.00 this month. The short cycling was killing me. 5 minutes on 5 minutes off 24/7.


Of course it doesn't help when one of my mangers keeps telling me "See you should have bought a Trane". I showed him this thread and he was in disbelief of what I have gone through.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Wait until we sell you a zoning system to go with your VS system. LOL :laughing: You have no idea what a complicated configuration setup is. These new units work great if a tech is interested in technology. 95% of the systems are left as is out of the box. That is why the customer has a warranty I was told." No news is good news".


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Brand name doesn't mean anything.

If a contractor is just selling a box. 

Fortunately, there are sites like this that you and others can get help/info you need.

Pass the word to your neighbors and friends.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> Wait until we sell you a zoning system to go with your VS system. LOL :laughing: You have no idea what a complicated configuration setup is. These new units work great if a tech is interested in technology. 95% of the systems are left as is out of the box. That is why the customer has a warranty I was told." No news is good news".



LOL. On the bright side this weekend I installed a Kenmore Elite Water softener, a Titan Tank less water heater, and now with the help of you guys I am fixing the A/C... :thumbup:

The funny thing is my first shower with soft water was weird. I was in their for an hour trying to get the soap off of me..lol


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I can get you a good deal on one of these:
http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=Harmony III
that way you will have all the "bells and whistles".


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> I can get you a good deal on one of these:
> http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=Harmony III
> that way you will have all the "bells and whistles".



I have no clue what that even does... What is the benefit of adding that to my system?

Thanks


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

You can have motorized dampers installed in your ducts and control them with separate thermostats and create comfort zones. Ductwork needs to be accessible and of the right size and layout.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> You can have motorized dampers installed in your ducts and control them with separate thermostats and create comfort zones. Ductwork needs to be accessible and of the right size and layout.



Wow I just seen a video presentation of that setup. That is pretty slick. My house is 2 story so I have no clue where the vents are running for the downstairs portion.


----------



## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

No Problema, nothing a new house couldn't solve.:yes:


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

yuri said:


> No Problema, nothing a new house couldn't solve.:yes:


 
Yuri,beenthere, and KAVF Thank You again. I came home and today the house felt better than it ever has with this AC system. I have been in my house for 6 years and honestly can say the ac feels like it should. Before I would come home from work and the Vision Pro would be set to cool to 78 before I got home at 5:00pm. It would have issues attaining that temp before I would walk in. Today I came in 1 hour earlier than ususal and went immediately to the tstat. I seen recovery cool on and it read 79. I hit the keys to lower it to 77 and the VS blower kicked on higher to cool the house faster. 

What caused the VS blower to speed up when I lowered the temp? Pretty cool as it has never done that before.

I see oyu talk spanish..lol I am spanish myself. GRACIAS.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Digital thermostats often jump up or down a degree when you manually change the temp. And often times, the humidity reading will also. So good chance the blower was slowed down for humidity. And when you set the temp lower. It registered a higher temp, which made the humidity register lower. And allowed the blower to go to the set cooling speed.

Not real uncommon when the set temp is changed manually.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Digital thermostats often jump up or down a degree when you manually change the temp. And often times, the humidity reading will also. So good chance the blower was slowed down for humidity. And when you set the temp lower. It registered a higher temp, which made the humidity register lower. And allowed the blower to go to the set cooling speed.
> 
> Not real uncommon when the set temp is changed manually.


 
Wow that is exactly what I did and what happened. You know your stuff man :thumbsup:. 

When I setup the thermostat yesterday it was default for 3 CPH but I changed it to 2. How do i find the correct one? The reason why I chose 2 is because I had a short cycling before and now since moving cables around the dynamics of the system has changed right? So should i change it to 3 cph or leave it at 2 cph?

Also how do I figure out how much electricity the coil and the air handler runs me? I am just curious


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

I'd set it back to 3.

The setting is only real accurate at 50% load.

Best way. Turn off all other appliances, including the water heater.
Then read electric meter, turn A/C on for 15 minutes, and read meter again. That will give you a rough idea.
Then turn your water heater back on, and any other appliances.

The amount of electric it uses will vary by the load its working under at the time. So it will vary from day to day.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> I'd set it back to 3.
> 
> The setting is only real accurate at 50% load.
> 
> ...


I am about to cry. I think I am short cycling now. Tihsi s what I noticed from coming home. 

5:11pm ac turned on 
5:17 off
5:23 ac turned on
5:28 off
5:35 ac turned on
5:41 off 
5:48 ac turned on


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

What do you have the humidity set to. That over rides the CPH setting.
It could be that its trying to dehumidify. What is the humidity reading. 

Another thing you might want to try.
Since its a 4 ton unit. Set the blower speed/CFM to something between 1400 and 1600. 

Short cycling would be an indication of an over sized unit/system.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> What do you have the humidity set to. That over rides the CPH setting.
> It could be that its trying to dehumidify. What is the humidity reading.
> 
> Another thing you might want to try.
> ...


The humidity reading is 50% and it is set to auto and the dehumidify setting on the right says 50 as well..

The blower is set to 1495 cfm..


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It can take a day or so for the stat to learn the house. So it may return to cycling closer to the CPH setting in a couple more hours.

If not.

If your short cycling at a CPH of 2, you can go to a setting of 1.
It could leave you with a bit wider temp swing then you will like though.

You could also try a lower blower setting. Say 1350 or so.

Something else you may want to check. Is that with the blower finally at its proper setting, that it didn't open up a supply or return duct from the increased pressure. And is allowing fresh unconditioned air to come in during the off cycle.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> It can take a day or so for the stat to learn the house. So it may return to cycling closer to the CPH setting in a couple more hours.
> 
> If not.
> 
> ...


 
I will wait a day or two to see how the system does. I still need to wire the W2 to the air handler, need to wire the outside sensor and set the switches to no delay. I will do all that and let you know how the system is at that point.

Thanks


----------



## KAVF (Aug 12, 2009)

The bad part is my dad needs a new AC and I have called like 7 technicians and they are all horrible. I am not bad mouthing techs in general. it is just the ones in my area . I need to find one to put a whole new system in his house as it is on its last legs. 


I would check with your utility company on contractors and ask the manufactures, who in your area they recommend. These two may help in selection of who to deal with.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

OK guys I wired up the outside sensor and added the white wire on the coil to W2 and in the air handler put the white cable form the outside to W2. I also set the dealy on the air handler to off so the IAQ is now contorlling hte blower for humidity control. The outside sensor is dead on I could not believe how accurate it is to wundergorund.com ... 

I have a question my return upstairs by the AC is 24x18 and the one in the kitchen is 12x12. Is this enough for a 4 ton? 

Should I make the 24x18 bigger to suck up more air. The filter in their bows in like it is going to get sucked up in the furnace.

I love the IAQ, It is an awesome thermostat.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

A bit small. Should increase the first floor one(not suppose to have a return in a kitchen or bathroom).

The second floor should be increased. And a 16 x 24 on the first floor would help.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> A bit small. Should increase the first floor one(not suppose to have a return in a kitchen or bathroom).
> 
> The second floor should be increased. And a 16 x 24 on the first floor would help.


 
I saw that after reading but the whole is already in the kitchen. What would be the benefit of making the one in the kitchen bigfger opposed to the one updstairs. The one upstairs is easier to enlarge.


Pics of my returns, thermostat, and air handler.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

I said increase both. 

If you can only increase the second floor. Then just increase that one.

Once you increase the second floor return. The first floor return will draw less air. Thats why I said to increase both.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

I have some new questions. Does the humidity control on the IAQ waste electricity? 
I have been measuring my KWH daily and am averaging 62-65kwh. I checked all the electricity in the whole house in the past month to see what was causing my electric bill to me high. 

I went out and replaced 3 plasma TV's to LCD LED tv's ans notice a huge difference with a killawat meter. I also went out and bought the Samsung HE front loaders because they claim it uses only 33kwh per year which is impressive if correct. I also replaced my water heater to a Titan Tank less to conserve their are well.
We do not cook hardly so that is not a factor. 

I am thinking the ac is the major energy hog in my house. Is this true?


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It can be. If your A/C is oversized, it will use more electric.
Also, depends on how low the humidity is set for.
Setting it for 50%, shouldn't cause the A/C to use a lot more electric, unless is oversized for your house.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> It can be. If your A/C is oversized, it will use more electric.
> Also, depends on how low the humidity is set for.
> Setting it for 50%, shouldn't cause the A/C to use a lot more electric, unless is oversized for your house.


Isn't it better on the electric meter if the VS blower is running slower to dehumidify the house thanto run full blast most of the time?


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Its a catch 22.

While the blower is using less electric per hour at a lower speed/CFM.
The blower and compressor both are running longer.

So it becomes a question of how long is too long.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Its a catch 22.
> 
> While the blower is using less electric per hour at a lower speed/CFM.
> The blower and compressor both are running longer.
> ...


beenthere,

I wanted to come here and tell you that YOU ARE THE MAN 

I was jumping the gun on the electric bill usage.

Here is my usage from the past months

July 09 80 KWH thermostat was wired incorrectly by installer and settings were never set on the Viison Pro 8320u1008
August 09 65 KWH Per Day fixed thermostat settings on Vision Pro
Sept 09 59 KWH per day - swapped out to the IAQ and set the blower to 350 CFM per request.


August was the timeframe you were helping me along with others on a diff forum which helped reduce my KWH per day.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Glad to hear everything is working out good for you.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Glad to hear everything is working out good for you.


I f I can only find a Master AC tech in my area like you I would gladly give him my hard earned money to replace my dad's AC system. The hard pasrt is finding a good tech.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

On another site I belong to.
There are many members from Florida. That can do a very good job.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> On another site I belong to.
> There are many members from Florida. That can do a very good job.


 
I was researching that and will ask thme theyre. Thanks Again..


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

HELP My Heat pump is not working as it is 29 degrees outside. My aux heat comeso n but it blows cold air from my vents. I checked the settigs of 350 for compressor lockout and set it to 35 and 360 for the aux heat and set itto 0. I see in the thermiostatwhere it says aux heat on but no dice. It is only a 9kw is that enough?

thanks


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

No reason to lockout the heat pump with electric aux heat.

Aux heat can't come on at 20°, if you have it lockout until 0.

What was it set for before you changed it.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> No reason to lockout the heat pump with electric aux heat.
> 
> Aux heat can't come on at 20°, if you have it lockout until 0.
> 
> What was it set for before you changed it.


 

Damn I dont know. I was freezing last night at 4:00am with a flaslight trying to figure out what was wrong. This whole week it will be in the 20's so I need to figure it out. 


How did I know you would be the first one to reply. You are FAST ... thanks man for all of oyur help before my electric bills have dropped drastically from swappping the tsat.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

N01B4ME said:


> thanks man for all of oyur help before my electric bills have dropped drastically from swappping the tsat.



Good.

And don't lock out the compressor.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Good.
> 
> And don't lock out the compressor.


 
I don't understand by what you mean. My heat pump would come on for 20 seconds and then shut down everytime since t was cold... What would I need o set it to then.


Thanks


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If its only running 20 seconds, something is wrong.

Where is the outdoor temp sensor located.

What brand and model number is your outdoor unit.

Most newer heat pumps can efficiently provide heat down to about -10°F outdoor temp.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> If its only running 20 seconds, something is wrong.
> 
> Where is the outdoor temp sensor located.
> 
> ...


 
Both of them are frigidaire By Nordyne. Model #'s for them are:

Heat Pump Model FT5BD-048K

Furnace B5VM-T49K-C


The outdoor temp is located on the wall beside my heat pump. It was reading 32 degrees when I heard the heat pump would come on cycle 20-40 secs and turn off. I thought this was bad for the heat pump so thougt lock it out below 35 degrees... 

My installer said that heat pumps dont work below 30 degrees in florida so I assumed he is correct.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

N01B4ME said:


> My installer said that heat pumps dont work below 30 degrees in florida so I assumed he is correct.


Ask him why they work at temps of 0°F in other states then(such as here in PA).

Sorry. Your installer doesn't know what he is talking about.
And something is either wrong with the heat pump. Or not set up right.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Ask him why they work at temps of 0°F in other states then(such as here in PA).
> 
> Sorry. Your installer doesn't know what he is talking about.
> And something is either wrong with the heat pump. Or not set up right.


 

I am done even talking to the installer. He is clueless and I have spent thousands with this guy and am here begging for help. I am at the point that I don't know who to trust when you call a person to your house. especially when oyu spend thousands for sometihng that is tied to labor with that person...

Does my heat pump work below 30 degrees by looking a thte model #. 

Sorry I am just venting.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Ask him why they work at temps of 0°F in other states then(such as here in PA).
> 
> Sorry. Your installer doesn't know what he is talking about.
> And something is either wrong with the heat pump. Or not set up right.


Earlier in the thread it was noted that some wires were incorrect so I swapped them out to fix my ac issues and hte system running inefficiently which evidently is fixed now. They system stopped short cycling the rest of the summer and I was happy. I had no way of testing the em heat at that point that I knew of since it was hot here.


These are the settings form the manual of the IAQ

*0350 Heat pumpcompressor lockout*
*40 Default
*0 No compressor lockout *** 
*[Other options: 5 to 60°F (-15°C to 15.5°C)] 
*0360 Heat pumpauxiliary lockout*
*0 No heat pump auxiliary lockout ** 
*[Other options: 5 to 65°F (-15°C to 18.5°C)]


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Your heat pump is capable of providing heat at temps of 0°F.

Your heat pump may be over charged. And was cycling on a high pressure switch.

For aux heat lock out. Best way to set it. Is to set it to 10°.
Then, what ever temp you discover the heat pump doesn't provide enough heat. That is your aux lock out temp that you should set it too.

A dirty air filter can also cause it to cycle on high pressure in heat mode.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Your heat pump is capable of providing heat at temps of 0°F.
> 
> Your heat pump may be over charged. And was cycling on a high pressure switch.
> 
> ...


 

I will change my filters out as soon as I get to lowes in a few on my way home and set the settings accordingly. Will update tonight when it gets cold :thumbsup:.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

UPDATE. The heatpump was working perfectly until the temp got down to 33 degrees just now(From the tstat reading outside sensor). I had the tstat set to auto and the inside temp was 77 degrees and maintaining. Now it dipped down to 75 and the VS blower is still on but the heat pump is cycled off aty this time. So should I set the 360 option to 30 degrees? 

The VS blower is still on but the aux heat is not coming on yet. I did set it to 10 degrees.

Wow I am thinking of running to Walmart to get a space heater as I do not wnat to freeze tonight..



Just noticed the heat pump came back on and it is blowing warm air...


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Is the stat locking out the heat pump. Or did the heat pump stop running for an unknown reason.

Your outdoor unit doesn't come set up to stop working when its 30° outside. So either the stat is doing it. Or something is wrong with the unit. Or they installed an outdoor stat that shuts your outdoor unit down.

Yeah. just raise your aux lock out temp. Will have to set it to 35, if your heat pump is not working at 33.

If the stat is not the reason the heat pump stopped working. Something is wrong with the heat pump.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Is the stat locking out the heat pump. Or did the heat pump stop running for an unknown reason.
> 
> Your outdoor unit doesn't come set up to stop working when its 30° outside. So either the stat is doing it. Or something is wrong with the unit. Or they installed an outdoor stat that shuts your outdoor unit down.
> 
> ...


 

Wow I appreciate all of your help. The heat pump came back on so It must have been a cycle. Now the the air vent temp with my Raytech gun is registering 98 degrees....


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

N01B4ME said:


> Wow I appreciate all of your help. The heat pump came back on so It must have been a cycle.


Premature doom and gloom.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Premature doom and gloom.


Sir my Hat is off to you :euro:....


Now i need to figure out a filter system fr my allergies and I will be set..


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Any 5" media air filter will do a good job. With a MERV rating of 13 or higher. Just have to have the return duct sized for it. So it doesn't restrict air flow too much.


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You keep the heat at 77 ??


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You keep the heat at 77 ??


 
I was only putting it that high just in case the heat pump would not work again tonight....lol


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

Ok last night. I had to change the setting of 360 to 30 degrees for the heat pump to keep coming on. If I left it at 10 degrees it would come on and shut down 10 minutes later. This mean I have something confgured wrong.

I also temporarily turned off the de humidification thinking it was causing issues.The heat pump worked all night without issues. 

Now my new problem is the heat pump efficiency was down because I had the tstat for 74 degrees and the heat pump was fighting to maintain 67 degrees. So I need to know how to make the em heat come on to assist the heat pump to get to the desired temp.


These are the temps in my zipcode for last night..

Time (EST): Temp.:
12:53 AM 24.1 °F 
2:53 AM 23.0 °F 
3:53 AM 21.9 °F 
4:53 AM 21.0 °F 
5:53 AM 21.0 °F 
6:53 AM 19.9 °F 
7:53 AM 21.9 °F 
8:53 AM 33.1 °F 
9:53 AM 45.0 °F


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You keep the heat at 77 ??


 
Wow I just went through your thread and that is allot of work. Amazing how much work you are putting in to the renovation. It will look awesome once completed.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You want the aux heat to come on, not emergency heat. Emergency heat is just the expensive strip heat, without the heat pump.

If running the heat pump only was able to maintain 67, when it was 24° outside.
Then it can maintain a difference of 43° outdoor to indoor temp.

So then your balance point to maintain 74 would be: 74-43=31°F.

Post all your installer set up settings as they are now.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You want the aux heat to come on, not emergency heat. Emergency heat is just the expensive strip heat, without the heat pump.
> 
> If running the heat pump only was able to maintain 67, when it was 24° outside.
> Then it can maintain a difference of 43° outdoor to indoor temp.
> ...


 
110 0
120 20
130 10
140 1
150 7
160 4
165 0
172 2
174 1
176 1
190 0
200 0
220 2
240 E
280 1
300 1
310 5
320 0
330 2
340 0
342 1
350 0
360 30
365 E 0 upper right
370 1
372 E 0 upper right
379 1
383 3
390 0
400 0
500 2
502 0
510 E 0 upper right
520 E 0 upper right
530 1
540 4
580 5
600 90
610 60
640 12
650 0
660 0
670 0
680 2
690 2
700 1
701 0
710 0


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Settings are basically right.

Its probably not charged correctly, and a sfety is shutting it down.. Or a miswire with the outdoor unit.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Settings are basically right.
> 
> Its probably not charged correctly, and a sfety is shutting it down.. Or a miswire with the outdoor unit.


I rewired the outdoor unit like depicted in the beggining of the thread. I will double check right now to see if anything is wired incorrectly...

Be back in a few.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Relooking at what you posted for teh outdoor unit. I don't see that the defrost board is wired to bring on the strip heat during defrost.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Relooking at what you posted for teh outdoor unit. I don't see that the defrost board is wired to bring on the strip heat during defrost.


I was able to bring on the aux heat by messing with the settings of 350 and 360 the first night...

I will repost the change of the W2 that was asked previously in the thread.






















W2 brown goes to W2 inside the Air Handler. I did not have a white piece of wire..


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Settings are basically right.
> 
> Its probably not charged correctly, and a sfety is shutting it down.. Or a miswire with the outdoor unit.


I will attempt to check it myself and let you know what pressures I have. If it gets too hectic it might be time to call the professionals.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Relooking at what you posted for teh outdoor unit. I don't see that the defrost board is wired to bring on the strip heat during defrost.


 
This is my only problem. When the heat pump auto defrost's it blows cold air in the house. I was thinking my heat pump was not working ocrrectly and shutting off. It was shutting off to autodefrost. I just dont undertand why it is blowing cold air out of the vents when the heat pump does this. After the auto defrost my air vent temps are 94 degrees.

I have the tstat set at 73 deg and the inside temp is maintaing 70 at this time with an outdoor temp sensor reading of 29 degrees.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You need a wire from the outdoor unit's W(W2), to the indoor units W1 or W2 terminal.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You need a wire from the outdoor unit's W(W2), to the indoor units W1 or W2 terminal.


 
I ran the wire to the w2 and ran a self test and now seen the aux heat come on. WIll see tonight if thathelps.

thanks


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

That will bring it on for defrost.
Makes it much nicer not having cold air blow out.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> That will bring it on for defrost.
> Makes it much nicer not having cold air blow out.


 
I put the wire from the outside unit HP W2 to the W2 of the Air Handler and to the IAQ W2 as well. Should it go to the W2 of the AH or W1? It is still blowing out cold on deforst mode at this time.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Change it to W1 of the air handler. Your unit may not have a heater that uses the W2.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Change it to W1 of the air handler. Your unit may not have a heater that uses the W2.


 
I changed the wires to W1 and still blows cold. I did put both wires the tsat one and the hp one. Should I only put the HP wire to W1.


WOW it has been cold in Florida for a change..


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

This would maybe explain my problems with the aux heat.

http://www.valleysupply.net/Technical/Files/TB09-159R Miss-wiring of the B4VM-E and PAH2VM-E _2_.pdf


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

That says that the W2 connection should have worked. And that on some units that the strips will come on on a call for A.C.



You can try their solution, it won't hurt anything.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> That says that the W2 connection should have worked. And that on some units that the strips will come on on a call for A.C.
> 
> 
> 
> You can try their solution, it won't hurt anything.


 

Question my breaker for the heat pump ius a 40A and for the AH a 45A. Do I have enough to get more than a 9k strip heater? Is 9k enough for a 2500 sq ft home?


----------



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You only have enough for a 7.5KW strip heater package.

Blower motor will take 3 to 4.5 amps.
7.5KW is 31.5 amps.
4.5 for motor, and 31.5 for heater equals 36 amps.
45X80% = 36 amps max continuous load on your 45 amp breaker. 

You would need a 60 amp for 9 KW.

10KW(34,130BTUs) is probably enough for your area.
Wouldn't always be enough in my area.


----------



## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You only have enough for a 7.5KW strip heater package.
> 
> Blower motor will take 3 to 4.5 amps.
> 7.5KW is 31.5 amps.
> ...


 
Installer just ogt here and visually looked at the HP and AH and said I only have a 5kw heater. He immediately called in a 10kw heater to install tomorrow. He verified the wiring and it is 8 gauge. IS this enough for a 10kw? He said all the wiring is correct but quickly glanced at it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Not for 10 KW of strip heat, and the blower motor.
Your 10 KW will draw roughly 41 amps(can vary from 36 to 44, since not all 10 KW kits are a true 10 KW), and as above, the blower motor will draw 3 to 4 amps.

Should be a #6 wire and a 60 amp breaker.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Not for 10 KW of strip heat, and the blower motor.
> Your 10 KW will draw roughly 41 amps(can vary from 36 to 44, since not all 10 KW kits are a true 10 KW), and as above, the blower motor will draw 3 to 4 amps.
> 
> Should be a #6 wire and a 60 amp breaker.


OK I will tell him that. 

Thanks


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You bet.

So your 5 KW was coming on. but not making a difference, huh.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You bet.
> 
> So your 5 KW was coming on. but not making a difference, huh.


 
Yeah he said that. I didn't quite understand that. I don't see a difference with the Raytech temp gun.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Well. 5KW(17,065BTUs) at 1600 CFM is only a 9.8° temp rise.
10KW(34,130BTUs) at 1600 CFM is a 19.5° temp rise.

You probably aren't getting a full 1600 CFM. But that is what your 4 ton heat pump wants.

Around here, a 4 ton heat pump has at least 15KW of strip heat.

In your are you probably don't need that much.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Well. 5KW(17,065BTUs) at 1600 CFM is only a 9.8° temp rise.
> 10KW(34,130BTUs) at 1600 CFM is a 19.5° temp rise.
> 
> You probably aren't getting a full 1600 CFM. But that is what your 4 ton heat pump wants.
> ...


 
I just want to combat the cold air from the defrost mode. All the changes you suggested have helped tremendously. the last 3 nights have been cold but the HP was only fighting 1-2 degrees to maintain 73 degrees throughout the night. How about a 8k heat strip?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

They don't always come in a large multiple selection of KW sizes for every brand unit.

Some brands will have a 7.5, others a 9.2, still others will have a 6KW, and others a 10 KW. 

I don't believe your comes in an 8KW.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> They don't always come in a large multiple selection of KW sizes for every brand unit.
> 
> Some brands will have a 7.5, others a 9.2, still others will have a 6KW, and others a 10 KW.
> 
> I don't believe your comes in an 8KW.


I guess I am screwed then. Because new wiring to the air handler is a nightmare as it is a 2 story house ... Now shouldn't the 5kw at least help combat the cold air in defrost mode?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

With the 5KW on during defrost. On a heat pump your size. I would expect the air temp from the registers to be 10 to 12° cooler then room air temp.

Without the 5 KW. Probably 20 to 24° cooler.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> With the 5KW on during defrost. On a heat pump your size. I would expect the air temp from the registers to be 10 to 12° cooler then room air temp.
> 
> Without the 5 KW. Probably 20 to 24° cooler.


 
Man I think a room heater is easier than going through these headaches . LOL


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Is your line set ran up through your wall?
Or, on the outside of the building.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Is your line set ran up through your wall?
> Or, on the outside of the building.


 
Through the wall and I just realized how to run it through the walls from the garage to the AH area .... The same area I used for running my cat 5 and RG6 cables...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

There you go.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Is your line set ran up through your wall?
> Or, on the outside of the building.


 
Can I run another 8-2 and couple it with the existing, or should I run 6-2 new wire?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Better run run a 6-2.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

interesting post great reading. I would take into consideration before i undertake all that rewireing that the current fl. temps are way way beyond the norm and during most fl winters your defrost cycle may be almost nonexsistant creating almost no situation where the strip heat was even being used, that being said if the outdoor unit takes a dump youre certainly not going to heat that house with 5 kw. So carry on......depending on the temp rating of the insulation on the exsisting wire it can be legal for up to 55 amp load if it has a insulation rating of 90c which is stamped on the wire. i tried to cut and paste a chart from the nat. elec.code here but it didnt work. so rewireing may not be needed. if you google wire gaugeing it should come up


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

kennzz05 said:


> So carry on......depending on the temp rating of the insulation on the exsisting wire it can be legal for up to 55 amp load if it has a insulation rating of 90c which is stamped on the wire. i tried to cut and paste a chart from the nat. elec.code here but it didnt work. so rewireing may not be needed. if you google wire gaugeing it should come up


And what was the voltage drop .


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

beenthere said:


> And what was the voltage drop .


 
less that 5 volts for 100 feet


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Since the blower motor is an inductive load.
That 5 volts will raise the motors amps slightly(not much).
The amp draw on his strip heaters will decrease slightly(not much).

Making him use the same amount of electric for less heat output.

Of course his wire may not be rated for 90C.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Since the blower motor is an inductive load.
> That 5 volts will raise the motors amps slightly(not much).
> The amp draw on his strip heaters will decrease slightly(not much).
> 
> ...


 
OK he came and installed the new 10KW heat strip and changed the breaker to a 50 amp and switched both wirs to W1. He turned on the EM Heat to show me the strips kicked on. I could smell the burning since it was a new piece and physically seen the red coming form the heat strips.

I measured with the raytech gun and felt the heat coming out of the vent. So how do I check if the aux heat comes on. I think I set the option 360 to 30 degrees. does that setting lockout the aux heat until it hits 30 degrees? How can I tell if the defrost is kicking on the aux strips? 

I also am ordering 6-2 to run a new wire to the main fuse box.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes, 360 is the aux heat lock out.

If you want to test if aux heat comes on when the stat calls. Set teh lock out to no lock out. And set the temp on the stat 5 degrees higher then room temp.
Or, go into installer test, and run the test modes.

As for testing in defrost. You can jusp the defrost boards test pins, and force it into defrost. But, it could terminate defrost before you get back inside.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Yes, 360 is the aux heat lock out.
> 
> If you want to test if aux heat comes on when the stat calls. Set teh lock out to no lock out. And set the temp on the stat 5 degrees higher then room temp.
> Or, go into installer test, and run the test modes.
> ...


 
Wow it works finally. Now I can feel the heat.... :thumbup:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Congrats.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Congrats.


 
Thanks Again.....


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Congrats.



Today was the first day I actually used the aux heat with the heat pump. Wowzer it puts out heat now..lol 

I accidentally left the system off last night and woke up at 2 am with the house like 55 degrees... brrr it was cold. I set the system to auto and the heat pump and aux heat went to town. It warmed up the house in an hour..:thumbsup:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

N01B4ME said:


> Today was the first day I actually used the aux heat with the heat pump. Wowzer it puts out heat now..lol
> 
> I accidentally left the system off last night and woke up at 2 am with the house like 55 degrees... brrr it was cold. I set the system to auto and the heat pump and aux heat went to town. It warmed up the house in 1/2 hour..:thumbsup:


Don't forget.
Everytime the aux heat comes on. Your electric meter spins faster. Meaning higher electric bill.

So in that ½ hour with the aux on. You used 5KWs of electric for the aux alone.

So you don't want to use large temp swings when you change your thermostat temp setting.

But, it is nice when a system warms the house up fast.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Don't forget.
> Everytime the aux heat comes on. Your electric meter spins faster. Meaning higher electric bill.
> 
> So in that ½ hour with the aux on. You used 5KWs of electric for the aux alone.
> ...



Yeah I was checking to see if the aux heat would work and it felt like my oven. I did notice the aux heat comes on if the temp diff is mor than 3 degrees. Is that normal?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

If you don't have lock outs set.
The aux heat will come on if the IAQ determines that the HP is operating at 90% of its ability to heat the house.
Which means it can come on even when the stat reads that the house is at set temp.

If you manually raise the set temp 2 or more degrees. The aux will come on.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> If you don't have lock outs set.
> The aux heat will come on if the IAQ determines that the HP is operating at 90% of its ability to heat the house.
> Which means it can come on even when the stat reads that the house is at set temp.
> 
> If you manually raise the set temp 2 or more degrees. The aux will come on.



So If I set a lockout temp, will my heat pump still use aux heat to defrost? I want to make sure that cold breeze doesn't happen anymore as it was cold.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Yeah. The stat has no control over defrost. The outdoor unit sends the W signal directly to the air handler.


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Yeah. The stat has no control over defrost. The outdoor unit sends the W signal directly to the air handler.



Thanks I was worried If I set a lockout temp my defrost would not work....


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## N01B4ME (Sep 1, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Yeah. The stat has no control over defrost. The outdoor unit sends the W signal directly to the air handler.


Well I wanted to report my AC and heat have been working good. Knock on wood .


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