# 4x4 post splitting ... repair? or replace?



## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

....first question ed, what are you building?


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

12penny said:


> ....first question ed, what are you building?


i am building a room/rooms inside a warehouse. separating the space with lots of rooms. one room to paint, one room to store spare parts, one room for an office, one room...well you get the idea. i used 4x4x10' post to make my rooms very tall.
it kinda looks like a deck would outside. except it just to break up the space of this huge warehouse.


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

jeez ed...only thing I can think of is to cut them shorter and eliminate the cracks. Thats a problem with 4x4.

Maybe someone will be along who's had to fix some in the past.

sorry:yes:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

edwinhome9 said:


> hello, maybe you guru's can help this diy guy.
> i am using 4x4 wood post that are 10' feet long.
> 
> as i drove the nails in the top and bottom of the 4x4 to add the brackets and connectors. the nails were to big and now the 4x4 post are starting to split.
> ...


There's no reason to use 4x4's to build rooms. Nail splits at the ends don't split, "top to bottom". What does split length wise is wet wood. As it dries, it checks.
What material are these 4x4's? Pressure treated? Doug fir? 
Post photos.
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> *There's no reason to use 4x4's to build rooms*. Nail splits at the ends don't split, "top to bottom". What does split length wise is wet wood. As it dries, it checks.
> What material are these 4x4's? Pressure treated? Doug fir?
> Post photos.
> Ron


yeah i know its overkill to use 4x4's. but since it is going to be used to store motorcycle parts and engines and other heavy items we figured we can overkill with 4x4 so not to worry about the weight and since space isnt a concern we went with big post. 
they are just doug fir since its indoor and not getting hit by the weather or outside elements.
i'll get some pictures up in an hour or so. have to get to the warehouse to take some of the splitting thats going on.


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

Have to tell ya ed, I have other concerns with your structure besides the size of the posts. Take pics of your framing as well. With heavy items be stored up there and then people walking on it.... it looks.... underengineered.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

12penny said:


> Have to tell ya ed, I have other concerns with your structure besides the size of the posts. Take pics of your framing as well. With heavy items be stored up there and then people walking on it.... it looks.... underengineered.


yeah, we're going to add bracing. no where near finished yet.
i was just getting concerned about the cracking/splitting, but i'd be happy to get suggestions on the bracing.
i'll add upload some pics of the effected areas in a little bit


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

edwinhome9 said:


> yeah i know its overkill to use 4x4's. but since it is going to be used to store motorcycle parts and engines and other heavy items we figured we can overkill with 4x4 so not to worry about the weight and since space isnt a concern we went with big post.
> they are just doug fir since its indoor and not getting hit by the weather or outside elements.
> i'll get some pictures up in an hour or so. have to get to the warehouse to take some of the splitting thats going on.


You didn't mention you were storing things on top. Try reposting the pictures as these did not show up.
Ron


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

The pictures showed up.
The way it's framed, is inadequate for the stated purpose.
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> The pictures showed up.
> The way it's framed, is inadequate for the stated purpose.
> Ron


alright. well, like i said we are going to add bracing. but if i wanted to make it 'adequate'. what kinda bracing would u do?
also i can just build out another couple of rooms and use that as the extra storage i need for said engines and parts.
i thought we could save that space, and lumber by utilizing the top of the structure...which still has some 10 - 16 feet of clearance to the top depending on where you are standing.
anyways, i appreciate all the replies


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

edwinhome9 said:


> alright. well, like i said we are going to add bracing. but if i wanted to make it 'adequate'. what kinda bracing would u do?
> also i can just build out another couple of rooms and use that as the extra storage i need for said engines and parts.
> i thought we could save that space, and lumber by utilizing the top of the structure...which still has some 10 - 16 feet of clearance to the top depending on where you are standing.
> anyways, i appreciate all the replies


The 2x4 platform is inadequate for the storage you mentioned.
What fasteners did you use for the joist hangers?
Ron


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

....while bracing is a concern, of greater importance is the undersized and possibly overspanned floor joist, the inadequate "beams" that they hang off of and the beam to post connections.

....considering that this is a platform that people will be working on and under I would suggest that you contact a professional before proceeding.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> The 2x4 platform is inadequate for the storage you mentioned.
> What fasteners did you use for the joist hangers?
> Ron


i have 4x4 wood post, and 2x6 for the floor joist. 2x6 headers, the fasteners are for 2x6 - 2x8. supposed to be the heaviest duty one's avail
the span is 10-11 feet in between post


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

edwinhome9 said:


> i have 4x4 wood post, and 2x6 for the floor joist. 2x6 headers, the fasteners are for 2x6 - 2x8. supposed to be the heaviest duty one's avail
> the span is 10-11 feet in between post


Fasteners are nails, not the joist hangers. For the stated span and storage weight, I would have gone 2x8 as a minimum, more likely, 2x10 as the tendency is to add more and more items to the space.
Are you aware of the storage capacity with a 2x6 spanning 10+ feet? If this was a house it would not be adequate with a perimeter wall system, much less up on poles.
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

well ok, like i said we were trying to maximize our space while saving lumber.
but if we can not use the top at all, or shouldnt the way it is. it just means i need to build out more rooms to store what i originally planned to store up there.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ok, so here are the pics of the effected lumber.









sorry they came out small, posted from my iphone.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

no further replies huh?
i guess i can use gorilla glue to fix the post...from what someone else was telling me.
is this the route i should go to fix these or are some c-claps or extra bracing the way to go?


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

...gorilla glue? Are you serious?

...its painfully obvious to me that you are going to do what you want, even though you came here asking for help.

...4x4's (especially dried up, split ones) are not adequate support, 2x6 floor joists are too small and overspanned, your headers as you call them will never carry the load on the floor joists, beam to post connections are just plain wrong wrong and I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut everthing is put together with drywall screws.

...on the bright side you keep a tidy work area.

...hire a professional before you kill someone.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I have to agree with 12Penny. Put the tools away and hire someone with experience.
You didn't even nail the joist hangers properly.
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

12penny said:


> ...gorilla glue? Are you serious?
> 
> ...its painfully obvious to me that you are going to do what you want, even though you came here asking for help.


i'm asking bout the gorilla glue cause thats what some contractor said would be good enough so i'm here asking if thats true or if i should use something else. and how is it that i didn't even nail the joist hangers properly? and how can you tell what i nailed, and whether it is correct or not from one picture?

and NO, i am not trying to just do what ever i want. i'm trying to get the help i need to do it right, or fine enough so that it will at least hold up the weight of a floor with no one on top.
but i thought i came on to the DIY forum ... not the put your tools away and hire a professional forum.

plus there is going to be a wall system around and bracing. your looking at something thats 25% done like its all i am going to do.
i am trying to get help on how to do it better, or some ideas on how to correct what i did or improve on whats already built.
but thanks for all the help anyway.


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

edwin, edwin, edwin...leave the gorilla glue in the trunk.

To answer your original question I would replace them because i dont think they can be fixed.

The proper nails to attach your Simpson hardware would probably be Simpson 8d galvanized nails. Some others here may prefer 10's. Your local orange store should have them.

You should've just build your floor on top of the "wall system"? Houses have been built that way for hundreds of years.

Keep the pictures coming.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

12penny said:


> The proper nails to attach your Simpson hardware would probably be Simpson 8d galvanized nails. Some others here may prefer 10's.
> Keep the pictures coming.


well, we used all 10d cause we thought the 8's were light weight.

i'll post more pics later as more is complete.

as i said before, originally i wanted to build 3 big rooms, and utilize the space above those 3 rooms as another 3 rooms.
but nothing is stopping me from building 6 rooms out and not use the top at all except to hold a few sheets of sheathing or plywood.
if it is as 'inadequate' as your all saying. then i dont need to use the top of the rooms. i just need to build extra rooms for the extra storage.

it should be fine the way it is to support itself and a flooring with no one on top correct???


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Boy, that silly Gorilla name and logo sure sells a lot of glue.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

"it should be fine the way it is to support itself and a flooring with no one on top correct??? "
So you're building this structure so it has no top use?
You were going to build 3 of these, again with no purpose. Now you're building 6.
Why don't you build them correctly and make use of all of them?
Or build none of them and save time and money.
Ron


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## Vincer (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi Edwin, I'm not going to jump all over you because I'm not a pro on anything like this.

I think you may appease some of the actual pros here if you drew out a plan and showed them what you plan to do. Then the plan can be critiqued before you add any more sweat equity into the project. You'll get some good advice I'm sure!

Again, I'm not a pro, just a DIYer. 

Why even build a ceiling over the room? And if the plan changes such that there will be no load bearing (no people or stuff on top) and you wanted a ceiling just for dust/dirt protection, then you probably don't need those big 2xs.

Anyway, good luck, don't hurt yourself!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I thought we were watching his back, not jumping on it. Without corrective guidance, he would have built a series of understructured platforms for both people and material. It would have only been a matter of time before the whole thing would have collapsed.
We don't even know the guy and were helping him. 
Someone should jump on my back like that.
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> So you're building this structure so it has no top use?
> You were going to build 3 of these, again with no purpose. Now you're building 6.
> Why don't you build them correctly and make use of all of them?
> Or build none of them and save time and money.


well i cant build none, being as some are already built. i am trying to build them correctly and make use of all of them.
but if it requires more work and engineering to make 3 with use on top and bottom, than 6 with nothing going on top. then i rather be safe and just build out and not worry about the top. i have plenty of room, i was just trying to save $$$. which it looks like it's not happening anyway.




Vincer said:


> ... draw out a plan and show what you plan to do. Then the plan can be critiqued before you add any more sweat equity into the project. You'll get some good advice I'm sure!
> 
> ... if the plan changes such that there will be no load bearing (no people or stuff on top) and you wanted a ceiling just for dust/dirt protection, then you probably don't need those big 2xs.


i will try and see if i can download sketch up or something and try and get some overview plan. or maybe i'll just draw something and try to scan it, so i can post it.
and yeah i think now we arent going to have anything up there so the 2x6 are probably more than i need, but they are already up there so its not going to hurt if its too much for a ceiling.




Ron6519 said:


> I thought we were watching his back, not jumping on it.


no worries, i didnt feel like anyone is jumping on anything. i've been on this forum many times getting advice and help. just started an account now because i couldnt find what i needed thru a search. so now i needed to actually post. but i know how it is. 
like i said, i appreciate all the help and replies i'm getting.

also forgive if i am taking a long time to get back to everyone. i'm on west coast time so by the time i get home to check this forum again its probably 8 - 10pm for most of you guys.


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## Vincer (Mar 22, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> I thought we were watching his back, not jumping on it. Without corrective guidance, he would have built a series of understructured platforms for both people and material. It would have only been a matter of time before the whole thing would have collapsed.
> We don't even know the guy and were helping him.
> Someone should jump on my back like that.
> Ron


Sorry, of course I don't mean to sound like a jerk! I know you guys are helping him, and rightly so. The posts were getting defensive so I was just saying "Hey, let's take a different approach here and show some plans so that everything is clear and proper advise can be given".

I know you guys have given me good advice on safety and time saving before, so I appreciate the "jumping" 

Vince


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Were are the plans?

Permits?

Do you have any idea what sort of liability issues you’re setting yourself or your boss up for.

The split post should be the least of your worries.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

kwikfishron said:


> Were are the plans?
> 
> Permits?
> 
> ...


Just give me til tomorrow I gotta draw something up and scan it and all that.

This is a space for me and my friends to do some side projects and customization of motorcycles...so no need to worry bout permits, or liability for boss. We are the boss. We just need something that allows us to do our customization thing, and side projects.

Being on how the basketball games are on I will more realistically get the sketches up tomorrow.
Thx guys.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

It appears the single 2x6 center "beam" is spanning 10' and carrying 1/2 the span to the back and the front. 10' total. If you used a Doug. fir/ North, #2, fb1550, the center portion will support 77# per foot of running beam or *5.8#* per sq.ft. for parts (incls. frame material, not plywood deck). The front 1/2 and back 1/2 joists span will carry *14-1/2#* per sq.ft. Don't store anything much heavier than that or the center, front and back "beams" will be overloaded. House floors are rated at 40#per sq.ft., bedroom floors at 30#.

Gary


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

for some reason i cant get my scanner to work. it seems to be fooked.

anyways, i did take another couple of pics, these are of the bracing that we did for the cracked post.
basically put a 2x6 on each side and used 3 bolts and washers to hold them snug in place.
should the post split further that will help take any load. and you can see in the background we're using wall system as well.
thx all for the help. i'll post more if needed.


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## 12penny (Nov 21, 2008)

edwin...

How much $ do you now have in those posts?
Are your bottom plates pressure treated or do you have sill seal under them?
We all know that if you build a second floor you will use it, have you given any thought to strengthening the joist/beams?
Do your new walls support said floor system or are they there to hang pegboard on?

Keep those pictures coming.


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

12penny said:


> edwin...
> 
> How much $ do you now have in those posts?
> Are your bottom plates pressure treated or do you have sill seal under them?
> ...


well the post were 30 bucks, the brackets 20, so each post is 50 plus tax, plus the extra 2x6's plus bolts. so a little expensive.
i have a sill underneath. nothing is pressure treated since it's all indoors.

i am not going to use the second floor at all since some on here suggest its not strong enough. so we are not even building the stairs anymore so that no one can get up there.
the walls do help support the floor. we used a 2x4 for the bottom sill and top header to go under the floor joist, and 2x4 for studs.

we still are needing to do some bracing, and lateral bracing. so it may be a little bit, before i can get some more pics up.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

edwinhome9 said:


> i have a sill underneath. nothing is pressure treated since it's all indoors.
> 
> i am not going to use the second floor at all since some on here suggest its not strong enough. so we are not even building the stairs anymore so that no one can get up there.


Any wood that is in contact with concrete should be pressure treated. No matter the location.

I'm a little confused as to why you're building these structures. First you said it was for storage. Then you said people would be up there and now nothing is going there.
If it's not being used for any purpose, why spend the money?
Ron


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## edwinhome9 (Apr 6, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> I'm a little confused as to why you're building these structures. First you said it was for storage. Then you said people would be up there and now nothing is going there.
> If it's not being used for any purpose, why spend the money?
> Ron


we were going to have work spaces on the bottom, and storage on top. people would have to get on top every now and then to get said storage. or put more storage stuff up there.

since i am not going to have anything on top now, i am making extra work spaces, to be able to accommodate the storage i can no longer put on top.


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