# Reroofing over old shingles



## bobsalas (Jan 20, 2012)

I have a 15 year old roof that is leaking is two places. 

The front is the only one that is leaking. It is steep roof about 20 feet by 30 feet.

I am wondering what the cons are for laying shinlges right over my existing roof. 

I mean what is the worst that could happen?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

It weould cost twice as much to strip it next time. It will look like poop and have waves in it. The shingles will never get hot enough to bond together, no way to see if the sheathing is shot and needs to be replaced. And that's to name just a few reasons. I flat out refuse to do a roof over.

If it's been leaking then there's got to be sheathing damage under the shingles. If it's not fixed how would you expect the nails to hold the new shingles to the roof?


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Each project is different and without seeing yours one cannot tell you 100% if it is feasible or not. That said, in general yes a recover is an option. Not a preferred option but still an option. 

It actually WILL seal down properly if properly installed. Yes it may not come out as smooth as going over a smooth deck, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. Yes, one thing you want to ensure is that your roofdeck is sound and not rotted away. One way is to get in the attic and look at it from below. If there is major damage it is not recommended. 

Although a tearoff is always preferred, we understand that sometimes finances stand in the way of that. In this situation a recover is always a viable option providing it is not violating any codes.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

I agree with Joe. I would be more inclined to roof over the existing roof if it wasn't leaking, but since it is, you need to see what the wood looks like underneath.
For all you know, it could be so bad somebody could fall through.
What do the shingles look like? Are they nice and flat and unbroken?
Are they 3-tab or Architecture?
Have you looked in the attic at the leaks?


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

You must consider the weight issue. Most rafters are only 2"x6"'s If you add another layer of shingles on top of the old ones, you can get too much weight and bow the rafters. Best way is tear off, replace any damaged sheeting, re-felt, replace any flashing and dripedge and re-shingle. imho


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

gopher59 said:


> You must consider the weight issue. Most rafters are only 2"x6"'s If you add another layer of shingles on top of the old ones, you can get too much weight and bow the rafters. Best way is tear off, replace any damaged sheeting, re-felt, replace any flashing and dripedge and re-shingle. imho


Of course that is the best way...doesn't mean it's the only way. OP wasn't asking that, OP was asking about the viability of doing a recover.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

And what could happen if they did.
So the other posters are spot on.


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## bobsalas (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow

That was fast. Thanks a lot.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Lay-overs installed properly will look as good and last as long.

I have done multiple lay-overs that are already over 20 years old and are still intact.

1. You have to inspect & address issues in the existing roof.
(flashing, sheathing, ventilation, etc.)
2.You have to prep the existing roof, which requires a half dozen steps or so.

If done properly, you'll have no problems.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Joe is right! Before I had my roof redone, I climbed in the attic myself and checked all the sheeting, and rafters so I would know what needed to be done before the roofers showed up. They are just trying to make a living in hard times, you have to stay on your toes. Don't let them get by without replacing the wood if it needs it, sheeting is less than 10.00 per sheet. It's not worth it in the long run and if the roof is leaking, definitely check the rafters , cause sometimes they can be rotting as well from water damage and you may need to sister a few. Some roofers will try and cut corners and not do it unless it is so bad you are falling thru, don't let them do it. Mine tried it (and yes they will lie to ya) but I already knew what needed replacing and I made them do it. They won't charge you that much more if they want the job. It's not hard to do at that stage. Good luck2!


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Overlays are not legal in the hail zone of the country.

Aside from what the others have said, your new roof over old shingles will only last about half as long as they should.

Yes, it can be done if done correctly, but still not as good as a reroof.

It's funny how I see some people say that you must remove everything down to the sheathing on every re-roof to inspect, but then say it's ok to shingles over old shingles.

What is your location?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

gopher59 said:


> Joe is right! Before I had my roof redone, I climbed in the attic myself and checked all the sheeting, and rafters so I would know what needed to be done before the roofers showed up. They are just trying to make a living in hard times, you have to stay on your toes. Don't let them get by without replacing the wood if it needs it, sheeting is less than 10.00 per sheet. It's not worth it in the long run and if the roof is leaking, definitely check the rafters , cause sometimes they can be rotting as well from water damage and you may need to sister a few. Some roofers will try and cut corners and not do it unless it is so bad you are falling thru, don't let them do it. * Mine tried it (and yes they will lie to ya) but I already knew what needed replacing and I made them do it. * They won't charge you that much more if they want the job. It's not hard to do at that stage. Good luck2!



Why not inform your contractor about that while he is making the estimate. That would be the honorable thing to do rather than try to "set a trap".


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Darn, that "thank" button only works once. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

gopher59 said:


> sheeting is less than 10.00 per sheet..,.,They won't charge you that much more if they want the job.


I don't care if its President Obama I charge $55 per sheet up to a 1/2".I have roofed both of my parents houses.My dad had decking replaced @ $4.00 per foot and mom was charged $55.

That is what is wrong with the construction industry from both sides of the fence.Trickery.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you charged your Mom?:huh:


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

I have installed recovers without incident.Different projects require different installations.It is up to the contractor to provide knowledge on the type of process needed and for the homeowner to listen to that advice.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> you charged your Mom?:huh:


Yes.,But I did eat her deductible.:whistling2:

Besides if you knew her you would understand how for some reason she does not want special favors.She was clueless about the deductible though.It was an insurance claim and she thought the insurer covered it.hahahaha


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> Overlays are not legal in the hail zone of the country.
> 
> Aside from what the others have said, your new roof over old shingles will only last about half as long as they should.
> 
> ...


It's a proven fact that lay-overs installed properly will achieve a full expected life span.
The only reason there not allowed in certain area's is because of the difficulty level of installing them (correctly), which is also why they get such a bad rep, because if you do a lay-over wrong it will be a disaster.


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## bobsalas (Jan 20, 2012)

MJW said:


> Overlays are not legal in the hail zone of the country.
> 
> What is your location?


I am in Oregon.

I think I will do a tear out and replace what needs to be replaced. It is only the one side of the roof and house, about 600 sq ft of sloping roof.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Slyfox said:


> It's a proven fact that lay-overs installed properly will achieve a full expected life span.
> The only reason there not allowed in certain area's is because of the difficulty level of installing them (correctly), which is also why they get such a bad rep, because if you do a lay-over wrong it will be a disaster.


I don't think any comp manufacturer would warranty the shingles for even a day as they can't guarantee the condition of the existing shingles.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I'm pretty sure the reasoning for not allowing a second layer is because of hail and insurance companies. As a homeowner it is still legal to go over the existing roof, but Contractors are prohibited. That is, if your state is using the IRC code. Some contractors in other states can use a different code that their state accepts and can get by doing an overlay.

In my experience, overlays don't last like a new roof and the warranty is likely void.

Every region is dramatically different. I would guess Oregon has quite a bit of rain, but that's about all I know about that area.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

titanoman said:


> I don't think any comp manufacturer would warranty the shingles for even a day as they can't guarantee the condition of the existing shingles.


I can't speak for all shingle manufacturers, but as far as the one's I install here in my region, they all honor their warranty on lay-overs.
(GAF - Tamko - Certainteed - OC - IKO and Atlas)


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

If you just nail new shingles over existing, your not installing a roofing system.

To do a lay-over requires a lot of prep work, so once your finished it looks no different then it would if you had done a re-roof.
If you don't know what I mean than you have never seen a properly installed lay-over.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> I'm pretty sure the reasoning for not allowing a second layer is because of hail and insurance companies. As a homeowner it is still legal to go over the existing roof, but Contractors are prohibited. That is, if your state is using the IRC code. Some contractors in other states can use a different code that their state accepts and can get by doing an overlay.
> 
> In my experience, overlays don't last like a new roof and the warranty is likely void.
> 
> Every region is dramatically different. I would guess Oregon has quite a bit of rain, but that's about all I know about that area.


I would have to guess you have never seen a properly installed lay-over then.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

I should add, I don't sale lay-overs, I always suggest a re-roof first and explain that is the best way to go.

I have/will do lay-overs in certain circumstances, because I know through hands on experience that the procedure works if you know how to install it.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I have done properly installed overlays before the new laws went into effect.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Slyfox said:


> I should add, I don't sale lay-overs, I always suggest a re-roof first and explain that is the best way to go.
> 
> I have/will do lay-overs in certain circumstances, because I know through hands on experience that the procedure works if you know how to install it.


What's different about the installation? I can't really think of anything, except maybe sweep the roof off first. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to throw some shingles down, whether it be over felt and wood sheeting or felt and shingles.
Oh yeah. Longer nails.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> I have done properly installed overlays before the new laws went into effect.


I just assumed you hadn't done any yourself, sorry.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Sorry but I thought he said his roof was leaking, I can't see how you could possibly even consider doing a layover over that and when a homeowner tells you he has leaks, you have to know he has wood issues, I certainly was not trying to "trap" a contractor, but I sure am gonna check it myself and know what is bad myself before he tells me some bs that all is well and just throw some shingles over the old ones. I did not say I was'nt gonna pay the guy for the work he did, but I am not gonna pay for slop.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

titanoman said:


> What's different about the installation? I can't really think of anything, except maybe sweep the roof off first. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to throw some shingles down, whether it be over felt and wood sheeting or felt and shingles.
> Oh yeah. Longer nails.



There's much more prep work than that if your going to do it properly.

Cutting the tabbed portion of the existing off in certain areas, not just the eaves.
Cutting the existing shingles back even with the overhangs, so new drip can be installed.
Installing new flashing's on penetrations.
Upgrading ventilation, if needed.
Etc............

Just covering the old roofing system with new shingles is not the proper installation method.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

gopher59 said:


> Sorry but I thought he said his roof was leaking, I can't see how you could possibly even consider doing a layover over that and when a homeowner tells you he has leaks, you have to know he has wood issues, I certainly was not trying to "trap" a contractor, but I sure am gonna check it myself and know what is bad myself before he tells me some bs that all is well and just throw some shingles over the old ones. I did not say I was'nt gonna pay the guy for the work he did, but I am not gonna pay for slop.


Rather or not a leak/s cause wood rot depends on how bad the leak/s are and how long the leaks have been ongoing.
That's some thing the roofer has to determine during his/her inspection.
There are also several other issues the roofer has to inspect too determine rather or not a lay-over can be done or not.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Slyfox said:


> There's much more prep work than that if your going to do it properly.
> 
> Cutting the tabbed portion of the existing off in certain areas, not just the eaves.
> Cutting the existing shingles back even with the overhangs, so new drip can be installed.
> ...


Okay. I didn't think of a few things.
I would have once I was up there looking around, but not sitting here.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

In still trying to get over the whole $10 wood replacement thing.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Well if you call Lowes 4x8 sheets of OSB 7/16 sheeting is about 8.98 per sheet. Maybe a little more for 1/2' plywood. That is what it costs!


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

gopher59 said:


> Well if you call Lowes 4x8 sheets of OSB 7/16 sheeting is about 8.98 per sheet. Maybe a little more for 1/2' plywood. That is what it costs!


Well yes, I purchase it for around $6 a sheet but that isn't what it's installed for.

I assume you were just mentioning the cost of the wood.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

If the roofers put it down, it takes about 5 min's, so at 55.00 per sheet as was previously mentioned, it works out to $660.00 per hour, not sure the president makes that.:laughing:


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

gopher59 said:


> If the roofers put it down, it takes about 5 min's, so at 55.00 per sheet as was previously mentioned, it works out to $660.00 per hour, not sure the president makes that.:laughing:


Either does the roofer. This is a big misconception. I charge 1.50 a square foot or $48 a sheet. After removing the old wood, disposing of it, labor to install the new, labor burdens on installing the new, it's not as much profit as you might think. None of that includes the time and money it took to get the wood.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

gopher59 has no clue how a business is run.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

We have charged as much as $100 a sheet to go over existing 1x spaced boards. Did we get rich on those jobs? Hardly.......

It really irks me when people start figuring out an hourly wage when they hire a Pro for a complete job. They obviously have no clue what they cost their employer or how a business runs.

If it's so easy and only takes 5 minutes and no skill, do it yourself.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

No problem! According to you its 654.00 in my pocket instead of yours.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

gopher59 said:


> No problem! According to you its 654.00 in my pocket instead of yours.


This is where the misunderstanding is. Its far from that amount in pocket. Heck, if my customers had the right equipment and the ability to resheath their own roofs, I would let them 

I can't stand it and the guys don't like soon it either.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

MJW said:


> We have charged as much as $100 a sheet to go over existing 1x spaced boards. Did we get rich on those jobs? Hardly.......
> 
> It really irks me when people start figuring out an hourly wage when they hire a Pro for a complete job. They obviously have no clue what they cost their employer or how a business runs.
> 
> If it's so easy and only takes 5 minutes and no skill, do it yourself.


That's why they call us CONtractors.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

ParagonEx said:


> Heck, if my customers had the right equipment and the ability to resheath their own roofs, I would let them


Gladly! :yes: :thumbsup:


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

And I might add, the sheeting would actually be put on the house.:hammer:


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Why are we having this conversation?


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

From my experience, you NEVER truly know the cause of the leak until you've opened everything up. There have been times, even without a leak, that I was glad we didn't just lay over. It;s not THAT much more work and the cost is minimal if you do it yourself. Do it the right way the first time...your roof protects a lot of other assets.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

To mjw for saying I have no clue how to run a business. Maybe not, but I do know if I were to go into the roofing business, I think I would at least learn how to do a roof first. :yes: I could go into the engineering business but I wouldn't advise you to drive over any bridges I built.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

gopher59 said:


> To mjw for saying I have no clue how to run a business. Maybe not, but I do know if I were to go into the roofing business, I think I would at least learn how to do a roof first. :yes: I could go into the engineering business but I wouldn't advise you to drive over any bridges I built.


fftopic:fftopic:fftopic:

Just wondering what this has to do with the OP and what your constructive input to this topic exactly is

You are not being very considerate don't you think?


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

I was being very considerate, I posted my knowledge this morning to op and went on about my day. When I got home tonight, I found that I was being accused by some contractors on here of "trapping" the poor contractor because I said the wood needed to be checked. I was not the one being inconsiderate. Read the posts.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

OldNBroken said:


> Why are we having this conversation?


Cause the interwebs are serious biddness...:laughing:

Seriously though...not sure.

Saying that it take 5 minutes and a $6 sheet of OSB is lunacy though and if my customer wanted to go that route...they are welcome to.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

I wish I could have paid some $8 a sheet to resheath this one!


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> I wish I could have paid some $8 a sheet to resheath this one!


A 12/12? Probably $108/sheet!


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

ParagonEx said:


> I wish I could have paid some $8 a sheet to resheath this one!


But it only costs $6, and it takes 5 minutes.


I don't think anyone was arguing. Just stating facts that others apparently don't know about.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

gopher59 said:


> I was being very considerate, I posted my knowledge this morning to op and went on about my day. When I got home tonight, I found that I was being accused by some contractors on here of "trapping" the poor contractor because I said the wood needed to be checked. I was not the one being inconsiderate. Read the posts.


The way you wrote your post and your attitude, I'm 100% sure you were trying to pull something. JMO


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> I wish I could have paid some $8 a sheet to resheath this one!


What a wuss Paragon. :whistling2:

Golf spikes, air nailer, and a stiff cup of coffee. Done in 1 hour.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Windows on Wash said:


> What a wuss Paragon. :whistling2:
> 
> Golf spikes, air nailer, and a stiff cup of coffee. Done in 1 hour.



Job was a nightmare. 4 layers. We decked that one from the top down as we tore.

That was an insurance job. They gave the property owner 8k! Can you believe that? 20 square. 4 layers, redeck.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

.,.,.,.,.,.,.,


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

gopher59 said:


> When I got home tonight, I found that I was being accused by some contractors on here of "trapping" the poor contractor


 

_The only reason I had the impression about trickery was from the statement you made about already knowing what needed to be replaced.I may have jumped to conclusions (Thats never happened before) but the question I should have asked was how far along the project was rolling before you stepped in.Your choice and your home so in reality it was your ballgame._

_Even though I have walked the roof and pretty much pinpointed problem area I still ask the customer where and if at all any issues exist that I have not covered.IMO it is an excellent demonstration of the contractor and customer keeping an open line of communication.Together they can both achieve their ultimate goal.That is to install your roof system according to spec and to insure that all issues have been addressed PRIOR to job commencement._

_That is where the communication line is the most important.Communication affects several phases of the build.It effects the efficiency of the forward motion the project needs to be completed in a reasonable amount of time.With holding information and or having knowledge of anything that can affect on time,on target on budget completion IMO hinders the communication and reliability of both parties._

_I have been in the situation where the customer knew about a couple issues and neglected to inform me and the result was bad blood (so to speak) between the customer and myself.This is no game.,its not hide and sneak or an easter egg hunt.These actions affect the relationship between the customer and contractor..,IMO of course._ 

_If it were me I would want to have the comfort of knowing that everything is on the table,in my contract and knowing that the possibility for surprises will be minimal._


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ParagonEx said:


> Job was a nightmare. 4 layers. We decked that one from the top down as we tore.
> 
> That was an insurance job. They gave the property owner 8k! Can you believe that? 20 square. 4 layers, redeck.


Seems about right.

Labor is only $12 per hour...right? :whistling2:


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Yeah, and then people wanted to know why I wanted to go up in their
attic with my Polaroid camera and take pictures!
Less surprises! 

My, my - what interesting things you find!
He, he, he!!!

rossfingal 

(Sorry, "gang" - I didn't want to contribute to this dispute - couldn't help
myself!)

12 dollars an hour!!!
Wow!
I'm at a buck, ten! 

Peace!


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Windows on Wash said:


> Seems about right.
> 
> Labor is only $12 per hour...right? :whistling2:


Yeah they got that right. I was more than double their estimate but HO came out of pocket to get it done right. He was by far one of the nicest guys I've ever done work for.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

At least it came out nicely.

Isn't it a treat when you get those customers. :thumbup:


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Oh well ! I got up this morning, drank my coffee, and actually went out and did some work, funny how you have had all day to talk about me. Lets see, where do I start. No. 1 I can load up a truck of guys for 10.00 per hour at the local convenient store, same as you can, let them do all the work go home and fuss at everyone else on the internet all day and then have the nerve to go take the homeowners check. How do you sleep at night?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

gopher59 said:


> Oh well ! I got up this morning, drank my coffee, and actually went out and did some work, funny how you have had all day to talk about me. Lets see, where do I start. No. 1 I can load up a truck of guys for 10.00 per hour at the local convenient store, same as you can, let them do all the work go home and fuss at everyone else on the internet all day and then have the nerve to go take the homeowners check. How do you sleep at night?


Most Contractors are that way, but I, for one do all my own work.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

When I work on a customer's house I do it the same way I would do my own, No to be quite honest, I do it better, I check everything and if they tell me they have a leak, I know immediately they probably have wood damage, neither plywood, nor OSB can take very much water, before it at least buckles. I don't charge them all that much to replace either sheeting nor even to replace a rafter if needed and when I am done their roof is perfect and most times when I am done it is better than it was originally built, cause most builders hire guys like you. I sleep very, very well at night.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

and that can also be a bunch of b.s. too...no?:whistling2:


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

And I will also add, I never, ever have a shortage of work. Certainly no unemployment lines for me. I get up every morning, drink my coffee, and go fix what needs fixing. I don't advertise, but I guess word gets around that I am the best and it's amazing how quick customers will somehow find you when they know you are good. I was at work today, not here on the internet.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

:yawn:let me know when the infomercials over


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

:laughing:Hope your WC is paid up to pay for that fracture you just incurred patting yourself on the back:laughing:

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Dude, start your own thread on how great you are. No one here really cares and it has nothing to do with the topic.

God where are all these new freaks coming from on these forums? Is it a full moon or something?


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Going on 8 pages of this thread, and the op still has no answers.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

gopher59 said:


> And I will also add, I never, ever have a shortage of work. Certainly no unemployment lines for me. I get up every morning, drink my coffee, and go fix what needs fixing. I don't advertise, but I guess word gets around that I am the best and it's amazing how quick customers will somehow find you when they know you are good. I was at work today, not here on the internet.


So, now you are a roofer? :no:

IMO, all credibility just went out the window. :whistling2:


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Actually it was answered in the first eight posts.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

OldNBroken said:


> Actually it was answered in the first eight posts.


Oh yeah. I forgot. Too long ago to remember.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

:whistling2:Just popped in to get my post count up:whistling2:


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

gopher59 said:


> And I will also add, I never, ever have a shortage of work. Certainly no unemployment lines for me. I get up every morning, drink my coffee, and go fix what needs fixing. I don't advertise, but I guess word gets around that I am the best and it's amazing how quick customers will somehow find you when they know you are good. I was at work today, not here on the internet.


Stinks that you don't charge enough for a sheet of plywood that you can't work a normal Monday through Friday work week or at least have all your employees do it do you can take the day off.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

titanoman said:


> Oh yeah. I forgot. Too long ago to remember.


I have a 15 year old roof that is leaking is two places. 

The front is the only one that is leaking. It is steep roof about 20 feet by 30 feet.

I am wondering what the cons are for laying shinlges right over my existing roof. 

I mean what is the worst that could happen?

1. Simply laying new shingles over old is not good.
2. Inspect and repair the existing.
3. Then decide if you want to do an lay-over or re-roof.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Sorry, didn't realize that post was going to add another page.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

gopher59 said:


> Oh well ! I got up this morning, drank my coffee, and actually went out and did some work, funny how you have had all day to talk about me. Lets see, where do I start. No. 1 I can load up a truck of guys for 10.00 per hour at the local convenient store, same as you can, let them do all the work go home and fuss at everyone else on the internet all day and then have the nerve to go take the homeowners check. How do you sleep at night?


You appear to be a real pro, how many of those 10.00 an hour dudes have legal green cards?


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Slyfox said:


> You appear to be a real pro, how many of those 10.00 an hour dudes have legal green cards?


And I'll bet they all are covered by WC.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

I don't work with anyone except me and 2 guys who have been working with me for years. I said YOU must have picked them up at the convenient store since you seem to have all day to be online. How can you be online and be on a roof too? Don't know about you but I can't be 2 places at once. If you worked for us, you may need a little more ins. cause my guys don't take too kindly to the slothful, a few more slothers falling off roofs could certainly happen.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

gopher59 said:


> I don't work with anyone except me and 2 guys who have been working with me for years. I said YOU must have picked them up at the convenient store since you seem to have all day to be online. How can you be online and be on a roof too? Don't know about you but I can't be 2 places at once. If you worked for us, you may need a little more ins. cause my guys don't take too kindly to the slothful, a few more slothers falling off roofs could certainly happen.


Why don't you guys arrange to meet somewhere and work this out?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

and the taper jig thread stuff got deleted.:laughing:
At least there they were arguing safety.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

gopher59 said:


> I don't work with anyone except me and 2 guys who have been working with me for years. I said YOU must have picked them up at the convenient store since you seem to have all day to be online. How can you be online and be on a roof too? Don't know about you but I can't be 2 places at once. If you worked for us, you may need a little more ins. cause my guys don't take too kindly to the slothful, a few more slothers falling off roofs could certainly happen.


I set down at the computer a few times today because the 7" of snow with a fair layer of ice under it put a halt to roofing until Monday.
It's been a pretty crappy three days now, weather wise.

I'm a self employed roofer, not a business man, I work full time when the weather allows.
I don't hide who I am either, I advertise in numerous places because I carry proper insurances and use legal labor.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

titanoman said:


> Why don't you guys arrange to meet somewhere and work this out?


LOL, how in the H e double hockey sticks did this conversation become between just him and me?


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

mae-ling said:


> and the taper jig thread stuff got deleted.:laughing:
> At least there they were arguing safety.


That's funny.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Slyfox said:


> LOL, how in the H e double hockey sticks did this conversation become between just him and me?


 
I would definitely like to meet a few of the posters in person on this site.In Springfield we have an awesome steakhouse.I can almost guarantee that it would be the BEST steak you have eaten.,Hands down.I fear no steer.

As far as the original OP's question.In some situations and depending where you are in the U.S you can select that option.It is always a good idea before you have any repairs performed on your property no matter what contact your building department and find out what installation procedures are required/allowed/recommended.

I will agree to fight.,.,hahahaha.,fight my way to the front of the buffet line.,hahahaha


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

Slyfox said:


> LOL, how in the H e double hockey sticks did this conversation become between just him and me?



slother:thumbup:


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Roofmaster417 said:


> I would definitely like to meet a few of the posters in person on this site.In Springfield we have an awesome steakhouse.I can almost guarantee that it would be the BEST steak you have eaten.,Hands down.I fear no steer.
> 
> As far as the original OP's question.In some situations and depending where you are in the U.S you can select that option.It is always a good idea before you have any repairs performed on your property no matter what contact your building department and find out what installation procedures are required/allowed/recommended.
> 
> I will agree to fight.,.,hahahaha.,fight my way to the front of the buffet line.,hahahaha


Springfield where? Where Homer and Marge live?


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

titanoman said:


> Springfield where?


 
I guess the Springfield and Joplin Missouri isn't the best of hint located under my join date below my username.I will have to work on that.:laughing:


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## Roofingnc (Jan 26, 2012)

bobsalas said:


> I have a 15 year old roof that is leaking is two places.
> 
> The front is the only one that is leaking. It is steep roof about 20 feet by 30 feet.
> 
> ...


You will have no manufactures warranty and if you have wood rot then if will never get changed, not to mention the mold issues that can be possible with leaks 

Charlotte nc Roofing http://www.room2roof.com​


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

Roofingnc said:


> You will have no manufactures warranty and if you have wood rot then if will never get changed, not to mention the mold issues that can be possible with leaks
> 
> Charlotte nc Roofing http://www.room2roof.com


Where is the link saying they would not have a manufacturers warranty?


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

ParagonEx said:


> Where is the link saying they would not have a manufacturers warranty?


There is no link for that because shingle manufacturers do honor their material warranties on lay-overs and they say as much on their websites.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Roofingnc said:


> You will have no manufactures warranty and if you have wood rot then if will never get changed, not to mention the mold issues that can be possible with leaks
> Charlotte nc Roofing http://www.room2roof.com​


Any roofer ignorant enough to do a lay-over of an existing roof that is in bad enough shape to have rot or mold issues on the sheathing or other structural components (detectable issues) would provide a poor quality install even on a tear-off or new construction also.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

I think this thread will be the one that never dies.If ever you want to start a conversation that brings out the DIY Chatroom demons.,.,Talk recovers :laughing:

I refuse to do them anymore.I make it my mission to make it affordable for the customer.If I finance the excess it takes for the rebuild with zero finance charge it helps me in the long run versus having liability in the future.Liability is much more than a financial aspect. :thumbsup:

If the customer cannot afford to have one layer removed what are the chances of them ever having the funds to have 2 removed later down the road?

Not to mention the reduction in property value with a 2 layer versus a single layer.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Roofmaster417 said:


> I think this thread will be the one that never dies.If ever you want to start a conversation that brings out the DIY Chatroom demons.,.,Talk recovers :laughing:
> 
> I refuse to do them anymore.I make it my mission to make it affordable for the customer.If I finance the excess it takes for the rebuild with zero finance charge it helps me in the long run versus having liability in the future.Liability is much more than a financial aspect. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


I agree with selling re-roofs instead of lay-overs, I do the same, which is why I can remember most lay-overs I ever did in over 30 years in the trade, because there have been so few.

I don't agree:
1. That it reduces property value, at least not if it's installed properly.
2. That the added cost of an additional layer is a determining factor, because the people/home owners who push me in that direction have consistently been in situations of hard times, lost job, health issues, etc.,
and situations like that are temporary issues.

The exception is the occasional slum-lord with a rental property or a home owner trying to sale their home.
I seldom get the job in either of these scenarios, because people like this don't want and aren't willing to pay for a properly installed lay-over, they just want new shingles slapped over the existing, re-use existing flashing's, vents, etc., and those are improper installs and they will rarely last longer then half the expected life span of a shingle roof before they begin failing.

You heard of the song that never ends?


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sly.,.,I agree that I should have phrased it different.Sometimes that second layer is an issue when it is time to sell.I have 8 of my realtors that have informed me about the multi layer issue.

In my area generally the potential new homeowner requests that the roof be replaced or a deduction of the expense of a build.With the market as it is new home buyers are really controlling the sale.So technically in that sense it does affect the value directly or indirectly.

Most of my customers who ask for recovers are in financial binds.The highest percentage of mine would be the elderly.That is why I commented about if they cannot afford it now then they would have problems purchasing a build with 2 layers when and if the time came for a reroof..

I am not smacking the elderly with my comment either.They are on a very fixed income and as I am sure you know they live on a tight budget and a reduction on their monthly income will have tremendous affects on their way of life..,just saying. :thumbsup:


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## armorxinc (Nov 3, 2011)

sheeting is less than 10.00 per sheet.

Somebody please call me an ambulance..... I've fallen and I can't get up!...lol.
I had to check the post date three times before i replied.

Where in the world is plywood less than $10.00 dollars a sheet. That s an american money price quote?.......Maybe for a 2 x 2 peice.....A sheet of 1/2 inch (15/32) plywood here runs around $17.67 USD


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

$10 per sheet and $5 per sheet to put it up sounds about right... :laughing:


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