# Framing over cinder block



## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

I've decided I want to put up framing over the cinderblock walls in my garage and then drywall. In the picture below, is it really that simple? What steps should I take to ensure I'm doing it correctly?

The job looks straight-forward but in my garage, there is already a finished ceiling and I'm not so sure what I need to do in order to attach a 2x4 up there since I now have no exposed joists. Do I need to take the ceiling off first or what?

According to the image, the frame does not get attached to the cinder block, this is true?

Thanks!


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## jklingel (Dec 21, 2008)

Myself, I'd use more foam, furring strips anchored to the wall, and skip the fiberglass. PT bottom plate, as shown, and tape the seams of the rigid foam.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

jklingel said:


> Myself, I'd use more foam, furring strips anchored to the wall, and skip the fiberglass. PT bottom plate, as shown, and tape the seams of the rigid foam.


Thanks for the reply. What does 'PT' mean? You mention furring strips. Are you saying you'd attach strips directly to the block? I was trying to not do that so I don't risk weakening the block wall and same me time as well. What advantage do furring strips have?

I should mention I plan to hang things from the wall once I'm complete ( that's the whole reason to do this ). Will the strips give me more strength to hold stuff?


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## jklingel (Dec 21, 2008)

PT= pressure treated. I can not imagine a few anchoring screws reducing the strength of the blocks. You'll only have a few per furring strip. I'm not a concrete guy, so maybe one of the folks more experienced w/ that will reply. Whether or not they would hold your shelving depends on what is on the shelving, of course. I am sure fastener web sites have data on what size, etc, for what weight.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

I wouldn't use furring strips, especially if you are going to hang things from the wall. Also, if you use them, your walls will be too shallow for electrical boxes if you want to add outlets or switches. 

"PT" means pressure treated lumber. Wood in direct contact with masonry must be pressure treated so it doesn't rot.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Ah.. 'pressure treated'... got it  Good to know about the treated lumber. 

From that image, it looks like NONE of the studs are attached to the block. That makes me wonder how it will really hold anything.

Yeah, I plan to put electrical boxes in the new walls too. The items I plan to hang range from my bicycles to a wheel barrow, ladder, etc. I have no way to hang them now without having to punch holes in the block with TapCons and short pieces of wood.

What would be the best approach to tackle the finished ceiling? What other things must I do to make sure this is done properly?


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

SingleGuy said:


> Ah.. 'pressure treated'... got it  Good to know about the treated lumber.
> 
> From that image, it looks like NONE of the studs are attached to the block. That makes me wonder how it will really hold anything.
> 
> ...


The wood should never come into contact with the block. Use pressure treated lumber for the bottom plate and regular lumber for top plate and studs.build your frame on the floor then put it in place about 1"off the wall.secure bottom plate to the floor with ramset and top plate to the joists. No need to make the whole frame out of PT lumber.if you put the wood againest the wall it will pull the moisture out of the block.
No need to remove the ceiling,once the frame is rocked it will look finished.
Look at the pic,see the bottom plate looks green?
PT lumber.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

That ramset looks pretty nice. Is there another option to attach the bottom plate though? That looks a little expensive and this is only a two-wall project 

Is the blue foam in the picture for a vapor barrier or insulation ( or both? )? Is that a required component if the other side of the wall has no dirt on it? Speaking of which, should I coat the cinder blocks with some sort of sealant prior to putting the studs up?


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Something else I'd like to confirm here... I've read a little about how far the drywall should be up and away from the floor. If I'm not mistaken, 1/2" is the minimum gap between dryall/floor right? Looks like that in the picture too. I suppose a base board will cover that gap up?


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## rditz (Jan 6, 2011)

SingleGuy said:


> That ramset looks pretty nice. Is there another option to attach the bottom plate though? That looks a little expensive and this is only a two-wall project
> 
> Is the blue foam in the picture for a vapor barrier or insulation ( or both? )? Is that a required component if the other side of the wall has no dirt on it? Speaking of which, should I coat the cinder blocks with some sort of sealant prior to putting the studs up?


you can use a hammer drill and fasten the bottom plate with Tap-Cons. they are special masonry screws that will secure the wall to the floor.

the rigid foam will act as both a vapour barrier and insulation, that is why you want to tape the seams.. you can buy it in different R- values, so depending on the batt insulation you are using and the overall desired R- value you are trying to achieve, will determine the thickness of the rigid foam. you may consider using some construction adhesive to glue the rigid foam to the block wall and then build your stud wall and press to the foam.

i would also use a foam gasket under your PT bottom plate.

rod

you do not need to coat the block at all


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks Rod. I'm going to price the materials tomorrow.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

SingleGuy said:


> Something else I'd like to confirm here... I've read a little about how far the drywall should be up and away from the floor. If I'm not mistaken, 1/2" is the minimum gap between dryall/floor right? Looks like that in the picture too. I suppose a base board will cover that gap up?


That's correct.
When you go,look at the manual ramset. You use a hammer to actuate it.
With the tool,#4 loads and 3" nails it will cost you around $30. Quicker then drilling holes not to mention you will need a hammer drill and the tapcon bits are not really practical for concrete plus you will need to drill holes at least 3 1/2" deep for the tapcon.


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## cortell (Nov 27, 2010)

Technically speaking, it's unlikely you have actual "cinder" blocks, BTW. You probably have _concrete _blocks. They looks the same but have very different density. Cinder blocks are made of ash are thus considerably lighter and less likely to be used to, say, hold up a house. This has no bearing on your question, but I couldn't help throw in that bit of info.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

sublime2 said:


> That's correct.
> When you go,look at the manual ramset. You use a hammer to actuate it.
> With the tool,#4 loads and 3" nails it will cost you around $30. Quicker then drilling holes not to mention you will need a hammer drill and the tapcon bits are not really practical for concrete plus you will need to drill holes at least 3 1/2" deep for the tapcon.


I'll certainly check that out. That would be cheaper than all the TapCons I'd need too


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

cortell said:


> Technically speaking, it's unlikely you have actual "cinder" blocks, BTW. You probably have _concrete _blocks. They looks the same but have very different density. Cinder blocks are made of ash are thus considerably lighter and less likely to be used to, say, hold up a house. This has no bearing on your question, but I couldn't help throw in that bit of info.


I didn't know that. My grandpa called them that so growing up that's what I did  thanks


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

cortell said:


> Technically speaking, it's unlikely you have actual "cinder" blocks, BTW. You probably have _concrete _blocks. They looks the same but have very different density. Cinder blocks are made of ash are thus considerably lighter and less likely to be used to, say, hold up a house. This has no bearing on your question, but I couldn't help throw in that bit of info.


Quite true. But I once owned a house, built in 1959, that had actual cinder block walls. Didn't look any different, but when I drilled into it to install some anchors, all the drilling dust was black.


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## jklingel (Dec 21, 2008)

I once got my hands on some nice cinder blocks. They were Cinderella's.:laughing:


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## Jerk (Apr 7, 2012)

SingleGuy said:


> Ah.. 'pressure treated'... got it  Good to know about the treated lumber.
> 
> From that image, it looks like NONE of the studs are attached to the block. That makes me wonder how it will really hold anything.
> 
> ...


No need to cut the ceiling. Find the joists and nail the top plate to them through the drywall.

The frame you are putting in is not load bearing so it does not need to "hold" anything. Providing you nail it to the joists and fix it to the slab it won't go any where and you could mount bikes, ladders or whatever from it.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone. My local store doesn't carry Ramset but has this instead. I'm assuming this is the equivalent but wanted to confirm that from the more experienced users here.

Should I be concerned about driving a fastener into my garage floor so close to the edge? I fear it might crack since it's so close.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

SingleGuy said:


> Thanks for all the replies so far everyone. My local store doesn't carry Ramset but has this instead. I'm assuming this is the equivalent but wanted to confirm that from the more experienced users here.
> 
> Should I be concerned about driving a fastener into my garage floor so close to the edge? I fear it might crack since it's so close.


That is the manual ramset. Nail in the end,put the load in (22) and hit it with a hammer.
Wear ear& eye protection! 
There is a chance for it to crack if you are close to the slab edge.
The web site will tell you how to test the surface to see if the nails will go through and what load to use.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, I got around to the wall. Here are some pics so far. Thanks everyone for the help so far!

I decided not to use any foam insulation on this wall based on some discussions I've had with several people. That saved me 60 bucks and wasn't necessary for this particular wall.

More pics to follow.

Goodbye plain block wall:


Framing... It's nailed every 12 inches at the top and has studs 24" on center. I built it out further than necessary so I can make tiny shelves at the very end. (Second pic)



The RamSet didn't work as well as I expected. Here's one that went in properly:


Here's one that didn't go in all the way. On average, 1/2 of the shells didn't fire off when struck. I was disappointed in this tool:


I bought a brand new Porter Cable FC350A framing nail gun for this project. It's an awesome tool but didn't toenail very well for me. The depth was set at max and my compressor was at the max for the gun:


Overall, the framing went a LOT smoother than I ever expected it to. I can't wait to get the thing finished and start getting my stuff better organized


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## itsnotrequired (Apr 30, 2010)

is that an existing drywall ceiling? if so, you shouldn't need any additional vertical fireblocking for the gap between the stud wall and the block wall. if the wall is less than 10' wide, you won't need any horizontal blocking either.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

That does not look like a treated bottom plate (on my phone anyway)I hope you put sill gasket under it.


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## Canucker (May 5, 2011)

Evstarr said:


> That does not look like a treated bottom plate (on my phone anyway)I hope you put sill gasket under it.


A sill gasket is a good idea, but if my eyes aren't deceiving me, I think you can see the vapour barrier between the wall and the slab in the last 2 pics. 
As for not using the foam, I'm assuming you're just hanging drywall and not heating this space?


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

itsnotrequired said:


> is that an existing drywall ceiling? if so, you shouldn't need any additional vertical fireblocking for the gap between the stud wall and the block wall. if the wall is less than 10' wide, you won't need any horizontal blocking either.


Yep. That ceiling is drywall and already there. Thanks


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Evstarr said:


> That does not look like a treated bottom plate (on my phone anyway)I hope you put sill gasket under it.


I panicked when I saw that pic last night myself. I checked it and it is the treated 2x4  I thought I'd gotten my boards mixed up but it's right.

I would've been ticked off at myself if I had to tear it apart lol


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Got more progress tonight. I put three sheets of 1/4" plywood up and one full sheet of pegboard. I used Liquid Nails and paneling nails to hang the plywood. The peg board was put up with wood screws. You can see the screws in the pegboard and think I'll put in more. I reinforced the pegboard by putting a horizontal 2x4 in the center of the vertical studs and a 1/2" strip on the back of the pegboard then screwed the center of the pegboard into the horizontal stud. This keeps the center from flopping around.



The 3/4" oak plywood will be used for framing and rails.


The screw that is in the center of the pegboard. I have a picture of the backside but it's on my phone and it's dead 


I'm too tired after moving that oak and lifting all those sheets but I'll get a picture of the wall with the oak out of the way soon 

Ps... ignore the gaping hole in the ceiling. That's damage from the previous owner and it's on the todo list.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Finally got the time to cut the oak plywood.

These will be the rails. 3 1/2" oak plywood


Gonna have a frame around the wall with 1 1/2" oak plywood


I used a MinWax stain called Provincial. It's on a little darker on the smaller pieces because I used a foam brush on them and an old t-shirt on the rails.

Can anyone give me some advice on what the best tecnique is to stain the cut portions / the endgrain? It soaks in too dark for my taste.

I bought this next stain to do the entire wall so there'd be a nice contrast but I've decided to just leave it bare because I've been reading that the particular plywood used doesn't take stain too well ( Sandeply ). Of course I'll be putting on a coat or two of clear satin poly so that should darken it up nicely.


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## SingleGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Decided to just leave the wall bare and let it darken up with the poly.

So far I have four of the rails up


One of the spacer blocks fell and one end fell slightly. Can someone give me advice on how to slightly even this up? I figure putting some wood putty and leveling it up some should do the trick


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