# Spine fin coils



## av-geek (Jan 15, 2012)

The American - Standard heat pump I have has spine fin coils in the outdoor unit. I remember my grandmother's house had several old GE zone-line units in it and they all had spine fin coils both on the indoor and outdoor sides. GE window and PTAC units now use conventional plate fin coils. Trane seems to be the exclusive builder of these style coils now. What happened to GE using these? Why don't any other manufacturers use this style coil?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Trane bought out GE.

Cost more to make.


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

when a spine fin coil is new its very efficient, when it gets dirty it loses its efficiency x 10, here is a perfect example of DIRTY


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## Done That (Apr 28, 2011)

Torch that coil.


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Done That said:


> Torch that coil.


 if you did that while working for me, you wouldn't be working for me the next day...........do you know what it cost to re-side a house after you burn up the vinyl siding? smart, well educated people do not play with fire.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Still good you can still see the coil wrap lines. Special brush to clean them I used to work on GE's many moons ago that had them coils the brush is a roller type that looks almost like the coils them selves it gets right in the spines and pulls the dirt out.


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

we use coil cleaner and a garden hose, no one's house gets burnt down and no one gets hurt. (except the homeowners wallet)


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

You need get a wire brush and pull all that off then take hose to it. Please make sure breaker is off when doing it.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

Done That said:


> Torch that coil.


Wow you are joking right?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

commercially saw GE rooftop heat pumps with the spine condensers not a favorite of HVAC guys the worst thing in cleaning is to touch them...wonder if they call for a stronger condenser fan motor to pull air thru them vs a standard coil


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

harleyrider said:


> if you did that while working for me, you wouldn't be working for me the next day...........do you know what it cost to re-side a house after you burn up the vinyl siding? smart, well educated people do not play with fire.


Ace, as a rookie I flipped when I saw one of the older techs doing that. But then i got my first "cotton wood job". you can easily burn the condenser clean with a low flame on propane or mapp. It is safe for the condenser and and does not make a big burning bon-fire.

To the other Pros I say, "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it".


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

Cottonwood is our state tree...I hate those coils.


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## Houston204 (Oct 18, 2009)

I dread cleaning those coils too. I hate to see aluminum bristles on the ground if I have to use coil cleaner on an older unit.

The instructor in a Trane class I took spoke of using a torch to clean them but I thought he was joking. 










I'd be interested in watching a video of this procedure performed successfully.


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## Scottphys (Jun 3, 2011)

WOW! I'm not an HVAC guy but I've never seen a coil that bad before. Seems preventative maintenance is the key for spine coils- Periodically hose-down.

In any case, wouldn't torching risk creating acid in the line set?


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

hvac5646 said:


> Ace, as a rookie I flipped when I saw one of the older techs doing that. But then i got my first "cotton wood job". you can easily burn the condenser clean with a low flame on propane or mapp. It is safe for the condenser and and does not make a big burning bon-fire.
> 
> To the other Pros I say, "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it".


 
If you play with fire you get burned, if you play with fire on my payroll, you get FIRED !


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Scottphys said:


> WOW! I'm not an HVAC guy but I've never seen a coil that bad before. Seems preventative maintenance is the key for spine coils- Periodically hose-down.
> 
> In any case, wouldn't torching risk creating acid in the line set?


No. There is no trick either. Just fire u a mapp torch with a medium low to medium flame and play along the coil. You don't have to touch the coil cause the heat from the flame burns off the build up before the flame even gets near the coil.

And Ace, you got 30 years in like Uncle does....but he never stops learning even though he is not 100% health-wise.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

The right tool for the job, Special BRUSH


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

hvac5646 said:


> No. There is no trick either. Just fire u a mapp torch with a medium low to medium flame and play along the coil. You don't have to touch the coil cause the heat from the flame burns off the build up before the flame even gets near the coil.
> 
> And Ace, you got 30 years in like Uncle does....but he never stops learning even though he is not 100% health-wise.


 theres a big diffrence between leaning and doing something thats flat out assinine..........


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

harleyrider said:


> theres a big diffrence between leaning and doing something thats flat out assinine..........


Explain why it is asinine...the flame does not even touch the condenser..

If you can't explain why this method should not be used don't judge others who do use it, please.

Your statement about burning the side of a house is a far fetched one and is not a valid worry. You could cause that damage during the normal process of brazing a line set. And yet we don't go to mechanical connections to connect our evaps and condensers.

If we use your logic than we should refrain from fixing leaks in lines that are in tight joice spaces too....so we would have to run new line sets instead.

I am going to ask you again to please temper your responses. I am not your enemy.


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## REP (Jul 24, 2011)

A couple of things.
If you understand the engineering behind heat transfer you will understand that the transfer is at the edge of the alum fin.With spiney fin you have easily 2 or 3 more edge than flat alum fin design.
The reason no one else uses it is because it was patented up til abut ten years ago.As the patent expired Carrier jumped on it and even bought some machinery.Then they found out they didn't have the design to attach the alum coil to copper pipe.Trane still has the patent on that.
The other thing is that with flat alum fin it gets dirty from the actual tubing out,whereas the spiney fin collects "dirt" from the outside in.That may sound like a small thing but it makes cleaning the coil a lot easier..


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

REP said:


> A couple of things.
> If you understand the engineering behind heat transfer you will understand that the transfer is at the edge of the alum fin.With spiney fin you have easily 2 or 3 more edge than flat alum fin design.
> The reason no one else uses it is because it was patented up til abut ten years ago.As the patent expired Carrier jumped on it and even bought some machinery.Then they found out they didn't have the design to attach the alum coil to copper pipe.Trane still has the patent on that.
> The other thing is that with flat alum fin it gets dirty from the actual tubing out,whereas the spiney fin collects "dirt" from the outside in.That may sound like a small thing but it makes cleaning the coil a lot easier..



Does this have something to do with the topic of burning the coil clean or are you just posting an interesting fact?


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## Houston204 (Oct 18, 2009)

Rep, I believe that you are the only person that thinks that the spine fin coil is easier to clean.

Do you often clean them or are you a Trane salesman?

I strongly disagree with your opinion.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

*
This video shows the burning method. Listen to the tech.

HVAC Trane Spine Fin Cleaning 1 of 3 - YouTube







*

hhhhh
*► 14:25**► 14:25*​
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bx_NTuoPwcYou +1'd this publicly. Undo
Jul 6, 2011 - 14 min - Uploaded by NLBheating
How to _clean a Trane_ or American Standard "_Spine_ Fin" aluminum _condenser_ coil that is clogged with *...

Right from the factory Harley
*


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

"The Tech" whoever he was is wrong it didn't state anywhere in the manual to take a torch to the coil to clean it he said he heard it at a Trane school/ Seminar whatever. No proof what School/Seminar whatever or who said it. I think it's nothing but BS. Maybe the way he's cleaning it really works but no where did Trane recommend to do this KOOK cleaning. This is a recording the real spine brush recommended for cleaning spine coils. Com' on PRO"S don't fall for this. By the way anybody see Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny lately.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

REP
Carrier had spine coils back in 1980 with that small trash can sized unit with the triangle shaped compression fittings. Not a bad unit as there are still a few running after 30 yrs.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I have had one oil furnace get flooded with oil and take off on me and needed the fire dept to keep the house from burning down. One of my plumbers burned 1/2 a house down soldering under a sink and caught the wall on fire. My company would fire us instantly if they EVER saw us doing that and with the devious customers these days they are just looking for ANY reason to sue or complain etc. My unit is now noisy because he burnt it yada yada yada. NO way would I ever do that procedure. Dry leaves in the unit and grass and bushes etc etc are just waiting for a disaster to happen. Once you have been thru a few fires you learn to be careful and not tempt fate.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

ok, I have read enough, I have to jump in here. http://www.americanstandardca.com/xcart/pdfs/catalogo de reporte especial/4_6.pdf PAGE 14


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## REP (Jul 24, 2011)

Well everyone is intitled to their own opinion but I was told the same thing at school in Tyler TX.
Now cottenwoods are nearly everywhere but that is about the only reason to used the heat method to clean the coil.
Normally you just need to spray from the inside out for things like grass clippings.
Those coils are not that hard to clean and because they transfer heat so well,you will find very few with two or three layers of coil which also makes them easier to clean.


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

hvac5646 said:


> Explain why it is asinine...the flame does not even touch the condenser..
> 
> If you can't explain why this method should not be used don't judge others who do use it, please.
> 
> ...


not getting into a pissing contest with you, i have stated my case and made it very clear.....if you don't like what I have to say then you have two choises........don't read my post or never apply to work for me.......either way Is fine with me. for the record, It doesn't surprise me that a Tirane manual would suggest a "lazy flame" to clean off cotton wood....i mean who benefits when you have to order a new coil, to replace the leaking one ? LMFAO @ you and Trane.....


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Using a torch is very common place on the spine fin coils. Never heard of anyone losing a coil from doing it(lazy flame).

But each to his own.

Name calling however will not be tolerated.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

hvactech126 said:


> ok, I have read enough, I have to jump in here. http://www.americanstandardca.com/xcart/pdfs/catalogo%20de%20reporte%20especial/4_6.pdf PAGE 14


its say on page 14 a lazy flame can be used to clean cotton wood. We are talking cotton wood and I said a small to medium flame to burn it off.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> "The Tech" whoever he was is wrong it didn't state anywhere in the manual to take a torch to the coil to clean it he said he heard it at a Trane school/ Seminar whatever. No proof what School/Seminar whatever or who said it. I think it's nothing but BS. Maybe the way he's cleaning it really works but no where did Trane recommend to do this KOOK cleaning. This is a recording the real spine brush recommended for cleaning spine coils. Com' on PRO"S don't fall for this. By the way anybody see Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny lately.


 Quote:
Originally Posted by *hvactech126*  
_ok, I have read enough, I have to jump in here. http://www.americanstandardca.com/xc...pecial/4_6.pdf PAGE 14_

its say on page 14 a lazy flame can be used to clean cotton wood. Er are talking cotton wood and I said a small to medium flame to burn it off. Today 02:09 AM


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## Houston204 (Oct 18, 2009)

Interesting video. Now I know that I would never perform that procedure.:no:
Trane may have the spine fin coil but it is still a good brand. No brand is perfect. They make a great furnace now that they come with a fuse. I like their evaporator coils as well. They have excellent continued education classes.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

It appears to me the original questions were answered. As this thread is continuing off-topic, it will be closed. OP, if you have any further questions, feel free to ask on a new thread, thanks, Gary


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