# IKO vs. Timberline



## lmf522 (Jan 20, 2010)

I am getting ready to put a new roof on my house and my roofer had me sign a contract, along with providing me Timberline panel samples, which I had selected my preferred roof. He called me tonight and said that his vendor increased the prices and he is going with a new line of shingles for me to select from,....IKO. I have looked at both brands samples that he provided to me and it is evident that the IKO does not look near as dimentional as the Timberline. I am a bit put back and wondering if he is trying to push me to a lesser grade/expensive shingle, or if he is really trying to stear me toward what he calls "the better shingle". Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!


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## johnk (May 1, 2007)

Tell him you don't want IKO.IMO their shingles suffer in the quality control department.They are thicker than most and seal well,but....I'll say no more and see who else chimes in :wink:


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## lmf522 (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you. But I am concerned. I do not know the roofing industry, or shingle, industry. I understand both brands are good, but I am trying to justify my opinions. Not trying to be materialistic, but some look better than others. I am a professional working woman/mom, but shingles are the last thing I ever thought I would have to worry about. I have done the intenet research, which there is not much there, so I am concerned that I may end up being at the mercey of the roofing company. I am just wanting to know if I am being provided with the best quality roofing options at my price point.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

It sounds like your roofer found out about the discount IKO is offering "nationally" after he sold you the Timberlines and is trying to add a few dollars to his profit margin.

I would not say IKO is a better class or even equal to the Timberline,
but, they are a good shingle and I have installed both with out problems.

I would be more concern with your roofer not knowing how much shingles sale for, is he a roofing contractor full time?, or someone doing a roof because he has no work in his usual field of work?


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Haha, it's funny how the companies are switching to IKO or OC lately.......Especially the ones who also use cheap labor.

It sounds to me like you don't trust the guy already. That is not a good start.

We try not to use either one of them. We usually use Certainteed Landmarks if possible, but shingles vary in quality around the country. Up here, the Landmarks are tough to beat.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Here's a little fact about the construction business........Anyone who has a full time Estimator is working on quantity, not quality. Estimators get anywhere from 30%-60% of the profit. How much is left for the things that stick with you and really matter like the labor and materials?

Check your local Craigslist for job openings in the roofing business. If most of them are for sales, you know what kind of labor they are supplying.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

IKO is going through a series of class action lawsuits because of premature roof failures.
Stick with Certainteed or GAF Timberline. 
Also if you are getting a 30 year roof make sure they use 30 year hip and ridge shingles. It seems standard practice is to use the 25 yr. 3-tab for ridges which is much less expensive.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Clutchcargo said:


> IKO is going through a series of class action lawsuits because of premature roof failures.
> Stick with Certainteed or GAF Timberline.
> Also if you are getting a 30 year roof make sure they use 30 year hip and ridge shingles. It seems standard practice is to use the 25 yr. 3-tab for ridges which is much less expensive.


Using a class action lawsuit as a reason to not use IKO and than recommending Certainteed after they just settled a class action lawsuit for over 600 million makes no sense.

There's not a shingle manufacturer in the business that has not had failed shingles, not one.
They either correct the issues or sale out to one of the bigger companies.
IKO and Certainteed both stayed in business.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> Haha, it's funny how the companies are switching to IKO or OC lately.......Especially the ones who also use cheap labor.
> 
> It sounds to me like you don't trust the guy already. That is not a good start.
> 
> We try not to use either one of them. We usually use Certainteed Landmarks if possible, but shingles vary in quality around the country. Up here, the Landmarks are tough to beat.



Landmarks are a good shingle here in my area also, I would not call them better than Timberline tho, equal sure, not better tho.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> Here's a little fact about the construction business........Anyone who has a full time Estimator is working on quantity, not quality. Estimators get anywhere from 30%-60% of the profit. How much is left for the things that stick with you and really matter like the labor and materials?
> 
> Check your local Craigslist for job openings in the roofing business. If most of them are for sales, you know what kind of labor they are supplying.



I wouldn't recommend sites like craigslist to an enemy,
they do not check for insurances, license, BBB rating or anything else.
A roofer simply tells them who they are, pays a couple bucks and bam they are accepted as a "real" company.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Slyfox said:


> I wouldn't recommend sites like craigslist to an enemy,
> they do not check for insurances, license, BBB rating or anything else.
> A roofer simply tells them who they are, pays a couple bucks and bam they are accepted as a "real" company.


I wasn't recommending CL. Just stating what kind of crooks can be on there.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Slyfox said:


> Using a class action lawsuit as a reason to not use IKO and than recommending Certainteed after they just settled a class action lawsuit for over 600 million makes no sense.
> 
> There's not a shingle manufacturer in the business that has not had failed shingles, not one.
> They either correct the issues or sale out to one of the bigger companies.
> IKO and Certainteed both stayed in business.


Yep, you're right. I stand corrected.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> I wasn't recommending CL. Just stating what kind of crooks can be on there.


Sorry, i misread your post.


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## lmf522 (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone! Unfortunately my roofer is giving me "no" product options at this point other than the IKO. He originally provided me with the Heritage Series and Timberline to chose from. When he stopped by the other night, he said that he closed his account with that company and has a new one with another supplier and that my only option is the IKO. My concern is that he is steering me to a lesser quality shingle. What I am learning from your posts is that neither the IKO or Timberline are really any different. Or maybe Timberline is a "little" bit better shingle. It is very apparant to me that the Timberline 30 year Architectural shingle has a lot more dimension and that is what I really like about it. The IKO does not have near as much dimension and they look very flat, similar to a 3 tab. I believe they are more of what you would call the Shadow look. I know when selecting a shingle there is a lot more to consider than the "dimensional look". However, for me, I have a very small cottage style home, and a very steep roof, so my house will look like mostly roof. That is why I am concerned about the actual look of the shingle. My hope is to have the shingle look/appear as much like a cedar shake style roof as possible, and I felt the Timberline was the best selection for this. I do not want my roofer pulling a fast one on me by making me select a lesser quality roof just to make a couple of extra bucks. My insurance company did not okay a ridge vent so the roofer is throwing that in for me. I think he is trying to make up for this. I am going to have a conversation with him, but want to ensure I know what I am talking about when it comes to me demanding that he honor what he originally offered to me, and that he wrote up in the contract that I "already signed".


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## lmf522 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh, fyi, I also emailed IKO to ask them to confirm if they are offering a nationwide sale right now and am awaiting a reply. The more facts I have to present to my roofer, the more likely he is going to have to honor my origianal request for the Timberline. I hope this all makes sense. Thanks.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

I only know of one supplier around here that quit selling GAF and now has IKO along with Certainteed. 
Even though we are a very small company we have multiple suppliers to get shingles from, and can get darn near anything available.

IMO, the IKo isn't up to par with many other shingles, but that could be debated. I don't think your roofer's intention is to give you lesser quality, he is just making a few more bucks on the materials because they are cheaper. That's his business, but I see no reason to outright lie and say other shingles are not available........


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

get your original contract honored if he cant find someone who will/ its your dollar and if youre showing a lot of roof the deeper texture will look better. i dont like bait and switch


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## BamBamm5144 (Oct 6, 2009)

Please run away from this roofer. He can get any shingle he wants to but since IKO are so much cheaper, there is a reason he is going with them. They are the bottom of the barrel shingle, at least where I come from. Most legitimate roofers will agree with that. 

Sounds like it is the start of what is going to be a hard process for you if you continue to let the guy do this roof. Hopefully the contract you signed had the shingle brand specified and then you must make him honor that or find someone else.

Seems like a fishy guy to do business with.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

It's hard to say what the response will be from IKO in regards to their sale because it's only available to contractors with multiple purchases.

In today's economy "I canceled my account" could be code for my account was frozen due to lack of payments.
It's happened to dozens of contractors over the past few years here in my area and that's not including the ones that filed bankruptcy.

Bottom Line, it doe's not matter if IKO is as good as Timberline or not,
all that matters is you get what you want.

Make sure everything is in "detailed" writing and no monies change hand until your are 100% sure he can provide you with what you want and do not make payment in full until the work is completed and you have a chance to inspect the work.
Also make sure you get this guys real information, not just a company name but Full name, references, proof of insurance, etc.

BBB, HBA, State Attorney's office are a few options for checking contractors out for free.


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## billyjones1949 (Jan 22, 2010)

*billyjones1949*

imf. Go to the supply house and get the prices for the Timberline and the IKO on the date you signed the contract if you believe that he is trying to steer you to a lower price shingle. Have the contract modified by the difference in the price of both shingles, If he will not put on what you contracted for just void the contract since he will not meet his contractual obligation. I am a roofer in Georgia and we always honor the price after the contract is signed or verbaly given. If prices increase before the contract is signed then that is another issue. We use Owens Corning, GAF, Certainteed and Atlas. I have never had a shingle quality issue that OC has never taken care of right away, GAF in my experience always finds a way out. I have not sold Atlas long enough to experience any problems but my roofers like them and say they run better than the others. Also so far we have not had any color issue with shading with the Atlas. Everybody has their preference but all shingles have certain specifications to meet before they are certified and all shingles have quality issues at times. How the manafacturer handles the issues is what counts.


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## hammer71h (Jan 23, 2010)

*hey LMF*

hey lmf..i just joined this site today...and your problem happens alot...i own a roofing company in columbus ohio...we dont really use iko shingles here...we use gaf (timberline), owens corning, certanteed, and tamko...not to say its not a good shingle though...

they are all equally great shingles...i have analyzed them all...and they are all good...

i only do insurance work here in ohio...the main reason is because i make a lot more money on insurance jobs...im not sure how big your roof is...

but it is pretty standard here to cover the homeowners deductible upto $500...even upto $1000 if it is a big roof...free upgrade to dimensional if they currently have three tab...and upgrade to ridge vent...and upgrade to closed cut valleys...(california cut valleys) this doesnt really cost me that much extra....

with all that said..it wasnt a big deal for your roofer to upgrade you to ridge vent...to be honest...it really does sound like he just wants to make a little extra money...

i negotiated a good deal with my supply company...and i get the same price not matter what brand of dimensional shingle i buy...and im not a very big company either...

even though you singed a contract...im sure you could get out of it...

have you given the roofer any money yet???

DO NOT SETTLE FOR WHAT HE WANTS TO GIVE YOU....

LET ME REPEAT THIS...

DO NOT SETTLE FOR WHAT HE WANTS TO GIVE YOU...

even though insurance is paying for this roof...it is your money...you can use whoever you want...

i feel your pain...getting a roof should be fun and happy...especially since insurance is paying for it...

if you want to talk at all...i would be more then happy to advise you...and help you get what you want...just message me back and i will give you my number...i could probably save you some time and money...

chris


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

hammer71h said:


> hey lmf..i just joined this site today...and your problem happens alot...i own a roofing company in columbus ohio...we dont really use iko shingles here...we use gaf (timberline), owens corning, certanteed, and tamko...not to say its not a good shingle though...
> 
> they are all equally great shingles...i have analyzed them all...and they are all good...
> 
> ...



I hope you know that some of what you said is considered insurance fraud and the rest is simple lies. You must be one of the new guys in the biz that the rest of us legitimate roofers talk about...........Don't take offense, it's typical of stormers.


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## BamBamm5144 (Oct 6, 2009)

I agree with MJW. How anyone can make money off of insurance is absurd. I have never priced lower than what insurance would give me. You covering their deductible is ILLEGAL. With a proper contigency agreement, you are stuck using the contractor unless you want to pay a fee to get out of it. (Something I learned the hard way, twice.)

What kind of upgrade is it to a closed valley?


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## billyjones1949 (Jan 22, 2010)

I love insurance work. Where we live they pay more then the normal charge. The only thing I do not like are the storm chasers after a hail or wind storm. We get the calls to fix the leaks after they are gone and the people get mad at our charge and the fact that there is no warranty on a repair on a roof that our company did not install. :whistling2: BAMBAm, I n Georgia it is the policy of most of the companies to pay the full claim of what they estimate the roof to cost even if the estimate from the roofer is lower. This is especially true with 
State Farm.


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## hammer71h (Jan 23, 2010)

*huh???*



MJW said:


> I hope you know that some of what you said is considered insurance fraud and the rest is simple lies. You must be one of the new guys in the biz that the rest of us legitimate roofers talk about...........Don't take offense, it's typical of stormers.


 
well MJW...none of my comments or advise was directed to you at all...they were in reply to person seeking advise...thanks for wasting space on the board...

and it is not illegal to upgrade anyone...and it is not illegal for me to not make the customer pay their deductible...seriously....get a clue...and if no money has changed hands...a monkey could get out of a contract..especially since they are trying to change something on the guy...and on a 30 square roof job in ohio that is paid for by insurance...i would make almost $4000.00 after eating deductibles and doing upgrades...maybe you just pay alot more in labor and/or material...or maybe your just a bad business person...who knows... (no offense) :thumbup:


and i've been roofing for over 10 years...plenty of time to consider myself an expert in the field...and im not a storm chaser...but i love storms...and if i decided to chase a storm..which i may one day...i'll load up my crews and do perfect work like i always do...

so...in the future...how about you stick to answering questions or posting replys when people are asking for advise...i didnt ask you for anything...and based on your reply...doesnt sound like you know what your really talking about... (no offesne)


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

You guys should take your "Discussion" about insurance or any other off topic comments over to Contractor Talk because it's not helping the "home owner" poster here.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Hammer, you really need to listen up. Covering deductibles is against the law. It is punishable to both parties (homeowner and contractor). This is how homeowners get swindled. I really don't care how many crews you have or how many years you claim to be in business....what you stated is NOW ILLEGAL. Sure it wasn't in the past, but it is now. Ask your Doctor, ask an insurance company, ask an auto body shop, ask anyone who deals in insurance.

Me, get a clue? You have 5 posts big guy. You should try to earn some respect instead of demanding it and being a know it all.

Sorry Sly, these types really make me mad. We lose many jobs just because of Contractors who are not doing things on the up and up. The entire industry is tired of it.


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## hammer71h (Jan 23, 2010)

*you win mjw*



MJW said:


> Hammer, you really need to listen up. Covering deductibles is against the law. It is punishable to both parties (homeowner and contractor). This is how homeowners get swindled. I really don't care how many crews you have or how many years you claim to be in business....what you stated is NOW ILLEGAL. Sure it wasn't in the past, but it is now. Ask your Doctor, ask an insurance company, ask an auto body shop, ask anyone who deals in insurance.
> 
> Me, get a clue? You have 5 posts big guy. You should try to earn some respect instead of demanding it and being a know it all.
> 
> Sorry Sly, these types really make me mad. We lose many jobs just because of Contractors who are not doing things on the up and up. The entire industry is tired of it.


you win mjw...and your right slyfox...i tried not to engage it in...but i just couldnt help myself...


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## lmf522 (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks to all of you guys. I certainly appreciate it. You have confirmed many of my concerns and feelings through this process. I thought it would be an easy ordeal, and I trust these guys to do their jobs. Unfortunately, it has become a big nightmare that I now believe I can put an end to. Again, I appreciate all of your insight, advise, and assistance. You're all great. And to SlyFox.....keep up the good work! Thanks to you especially!


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Does your contract specify Timberline? If so then he is in breach of the contract by refusing to give you the choice specified. It is up to you whether or not you want to continue to do business with this guy. Is there a difference in quality? Maybe a little bit, but not much. I can say for sure that IKO is cheaper, so that is why he's pushing it regardless of whether or not it is on sale. If you find the appearance acceptable, you can feel confident accepting the IKO from a product standpoint, but I would demand a discounted price before you sign a change order or amended contract. IMHO, I really don't like the tactics that this guy is using. He can try and steer you to change over to IKO, but for him to say that he "can't" get it anymore is BS and a flat out lie.... As I mentioned, the power that you have here really depends on the specifics of the contract that you signed.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

sorry if my post is redundant, I just noticed that there are two pages to this thread...lol


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## constructionman (Feb 3, 2010)

I hope u did not go with the IKO shingles. I am a roofing contractor in PA and they are junk. Have had to replace alot of failed shingled roofs and IKO are horrible for that. Timberlines are a GAF shingle and are a good shingle I do prefer Certainteed Landmarks though.


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## sassyalice (Aug 7, 2010)

Does that lower quality transfer onto their other products? I am curious about the quality of Storm Shield Barrier, Anyone have any experience with it?


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