# Next phase- drywall!



## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi fellow frustrated members-

so most of you probably don't know this but i have been making threads as we progress through our never ending remodel, and we are finally at the drywall phase! 

now my question is given the crazy ceiling we have, is 1/2in normal drywall sufficient? also, do you need to install furring strips or can you just screw directly to the joists? i have never done drywall before so i am trying to read up on it. any other advice is welcomed. thanks!


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

the joists run straight then angles down


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

Must ceilings are 5/8" (fire code).

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy S2


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

5/8 is used so the ceiling will not sag. Make sure to use screws not nails.
That's one messed up ceiling right now. I'd pull a string across it in a few place to see how flat those rafters are.
I'd borrow or rent a drywall lift, so much easer to do a ceiling that way. With a lift, one man can install a 4 X 12 sheet by there self and have far less seams.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

thanks for the reply guys!
so i need 5/8th not 1/2in. also, i have never done this before. can i just screw the sheets up myself, and have someone else finish it? finishing just means taping the seams and mudding right?


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

also, should adhesive be used in addition to screws?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Simple enought to hang and finish, it just takes a little practice to get good at it.
First you have to figure out the best way to run it and all seams must meet in the middle of a rafter so take a few min. to see where the sheet will end up, it's easy to just cut some off if the rafters were laid out wrong, you never want to end up with just a narrow strip any place.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> also, should adhesive be used in addition to screws?


No glue. Maker sure the screws counter-sink 1/16" without tearing the paper. Finishers get very upset if they have to carry a screw fun around with them.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

joecaption said:


> Simple enought to hang and finish, it just takes a little practice to get good at it.
> First you have to figure out the best way to run it and all seams must meet in the middle of a rafter so take a few min. to see where the sheet will end up, it's easy to just cut some off if the rafters were laid out wrong, you never want to end up with just a narrow strip any place.


yea the ceiling is all messed up. how do i fix it if it's not even all the way across? so i cant just line them up and cut what i need for the remaining space?


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

titanoman said:


> No glue. Maker sure the screws counter-sink 1/16" without tearing the paper. Finishers get very upset if they have to carry a screw fun around with them.


so no glue. whats a screw fun? screw gun? i am thinking about hanging it myself and have someone finish. also, how do you do the edges? you need to use one of those corner metal pieces right


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> so no glue. whats a screw fun? screw gun? i am thinking about hanging it myself and have someone finish. also, how do you do the edges? you need to use one of those corner metal pieces right


The tapers will put metal where ever they want it, like where the ceiling goes from flat to angled.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

titanoman said:


> The tapers will put metal where ever they want it, like where the ceiling goes from flat to angled.


sorry i dont know anything here-so the metal pieces are for lining up the edge of the drywall, and can be put anywhere not just at the corners?


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> sorry i dont know anything here-so the metal pieces are for lining up the edge of the drywall, and can be put anywhere not just at the corners?


I think you're talking about "corner bead", for wall corners. The reason they probably would use it where I said is because it makes for nice straight lines at the transition when taped.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

titanoman said:


> I think you're talking about "corner bead", for wall corners. The reason they probably would use it where I said is because it makes for nice straight lines at the transition when taped.


yea for where the drywall meets the wall. but you are saying they can use it at the spot where the angles forms too right? also, what kind of screws do i use? tehres different kinds of drywall screws right


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> yea for where the drywall meets the wall. but you are saying they can use it at the spot where the angles forms too right? also, what kind of screws do i use? tehres different kinds of drywall screws right


No metal where the ceiling meets the wall. Only where the ceiling goes from flat to angled. Standard 1 5/8" drywall screws.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Course thread 1-1/4. If you use drywall adhesive you can use less screws.
You should insulate before the drywall goes in.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

thanks so much for the quick replies guys. so whats the corner bead stuff then? how do you hang it so the ceiling drywall is flush with the existing wall? 
what's the argument for glue? the pic is bad but we did spray foam so it's insulated that way


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> thanks so much for the quick replies guys. so whats the corner bead stuff then? how do you hang it so the ceiling drywall is flush with the existing wall?
> what's the argument for glue? the pic is bad but we did spray foam so it's insulated that way


Like Joe says, glue is an (messy) option but not necessary. I prefer to rely on more screws so you know the rock is sucked up tight to the joists. I don't know what you mean by flush with existing wall. Just butt the lid tight to the walls.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

titanoman said:


> Like Joe says, glue is an (messy) option but not necessary. I prefer to rely on more screws so you know the rock is sucked up tight to the joists. I don't know what you mean by flush with existing wall. Just butt the lid tight to the walls.


thanks. i rather keep it less messy too, so no glue. so i dont need a furring strip; i can just screw right to teh joists. so for the drywall edge touching the wall i can just put it right up against it.

edit-how many screws should i do per sheet


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> thanks. i rather keep it less messy too, so no glue. so i dont need a furring strip; i can just screw right to teh joists. so for the drywall edge touching the wall i can just put it right up against it.
> 
> edit-how many screws should i do per sheet


You got it. I think code calls for 5 screws in each joist.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

There should be no mess, the glue goes on the rafters. It makes the ceiling 25% stronger and less likly to have screw pops and cracks.


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

joecaption said:


> There should be no mess, the glue goes on the rafters. It makes the ceiling 25% stronger and less likly to have screw pops and cracks.


It starts on the rafters, ends up on the walls, tools, clothes. Code doesn't call for it. And screws don't pop like nails.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

hehe well maybe i will use a little bit of glue and not too much. is that a good compromise? 

so $70/sheet is way too expensive right to hang and finish right


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

what if the seam of a sheet isnt center on the joist?


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

federer said:


> hehe well maybe i will use a little bit of glue and not too much. is that a good compromise?
> 
> so $70/sheet is way too expensive right to hang and finish right


Good compromise. And way too expensive.


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## coupe (Nov 25, 2011)

first of all, there is no! the seam of a sheet isn't center on the joist? the sheets are cut so they do break on center of joists! it can't be finished properly, if ends are just flopping in the air. will be one nasty joint if it is.

you really need to use glue and nails or screws. every 6-8 inches. if screwing? countersink screws without breaking through the paper! if nailing? use regular drywall hammer and countersink with divot but do not break through paper. the paper is all that holds, also just dent gypsum, do not crush between papers.
corner bead, is only used on outside square corners. and it's not the paper's job to install corner beads. paper tape is always used on inside corners, no metal there. angled corners must be strait to finish straight! no corner beads there, corner beads just don't flex onto those angles. if you want to try metal corner beads on angles? I suggest putting a 6" piece of bead behind each joint of bead to keep them uniform as well at corners over the length of the corner bead.

you might find a taper who'll use paper bead on angled corners? I don't recommend it! unless angled corner is exactly straight? the bead will follow the contour of the angle. the corner strip bends, the paper wrinkles. if there is a dip or crown on the corner the tape is going to follow Wat is there.

projects can only be finished as well as it's hung! even the best of finishers can only do so much

$70 a sheet does seem quite high at least in my area. with the economy, who knows?

simply put, don't expect to get better results in a job, than the effort you put into the job to make it right to start with!

as always, just my thoughts

good luck

coupe/Larry


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## Hates my roof (Dec 3, 2011)

I would use glue - good ole cheap drywall adhesive. Ive done it with glue and without glue. The glued ones hold up better, less cracking etc. The only place I maybe would not use glue are areas that have a high chance of getting wet and requiring patch repair. A ceiling below a bathroom for example.


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## havalife (Mar 23, 2011)

If you are trying to save money I would suggest having a pro take over for you at this point. From the questions so far I see a very long thread on this one not trying to be rude. 
If you want to drywall it then you need to straightedge the ceiling like mentioned, on a lid I don't like anything more then 1/8" in 10', use 5/8" drywall, screws, tight joints, before tape make sure you have aflat lid. It looks like plaster on the walls, what is your plan for the transition?


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

*thank you*

thank you everyone for your input. i really appreciate it.

so yea here's the thing. 

havalife-you are absolutely right. iknow nothing about drywall. nothing. so we did hire a remodeling guy but 1. hes charging 70/sheet and 2. he is insisting on using 1/2in. drywall.

so to clarify: this is for ceiling upstairs right beneath the roof. is 1/2in ok, or is 5/8th still recommended??? would appreciate insight here.


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

coupe said:


> first of all, there is no! the seam of a sheet isn't center on the joist? the sheets are cut so they do break on center of joists! it can't be finished properly, if ends are just flopping in the air. will be one nasty joint if it is.
> 
> you really need to use glue and nails or screws. every 6-8 inches. if screwing? countersink screws without breaking through the paper! if nailing? use regular drywall hammer and countersink with divot but do not break through paper. the paper is all that holds, also just dent gypsum, do not crush between papers.
> corner bead, is only used on outside square corners. and it's not the paper's job to install corner beads. paper tape is always used on inside corners, no metal there. angled corners must be strait to finish straight! no corner beads there, corner beads just don't flex onto those angles. if you want to try metal corner beads on angles? I suggest putting a 6" piece of bead behind each joint of bead to keep them uniform as well at corners over the length of the corner bead.
> ...


thanks Larry
yea that makes sense they need be cut so they are all on center.

now the other stuff i am confused on. can you please explain what corner bead is exactly? that's the corner edges that meet for ceiling and wall right? and what does it do? also, what is paper bead?and outside corner? thank you! :laughing: i know i am asking all the noob questions here

i am in DC metro area; i guess everythig is more expensive here including drywall


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## LMPD (Dec 12, 2011)

i've had better luck with coarse thread vs fine thread dw screws.


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## coupe (Nov 25, 2011)

now the other stuff i am confused on. can you please explain what corner bead is exactly? that's the corner edges that meet for ceiling and wall right? and what does it do? also, what is paper bead?and outside corner? thank you! :laughing: i know i am asking all the noob questions here.
federer, corner bead=is a metal strip normal 8' long that goes on outside square corners. it's maybe 27gauge metal bent to 90 degrees. it has holes punched everywhere, smaller holes for nails/screws, larger holes for mud to go into to hold the mud while drying. personally, I prefer my beads nailed on, with a nail in at least every other hole. and I like my beads taped also simply for extra strength. if corner bead is not installed straight and square? your corner wont be either.

paper tape= is simply that. it's 2" wide 250' long, has a crease in the center for bending to make inside corners. the square inside corners where wall meets ceiling. for vaulted ceilings, where the corners are not square, there is a paper bead, much like paper tape but has a very thin piece of metal in the center = paper bead. this bead requires a true professional, who care about their work! as it's very difficult to keep straight.

there are also expansion beads and slip beads for commercial buildings with straight rolls over 100 feet long. which are of no use to you in your project, but do exist.

I hope this gives you some extra knowledge? while watching the progress of your very expensive contractor! you're paying him, make sure it's done right!


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

coupe said:


> now the other stuff i am confused on. can you please explain what corner bead is exactly? that's the corner edges that meet for ceiling and wall right? and what does it do? also, what is paper bead?and outside corner? thank you! :laughing: i know i am asking all the noob questions here.
> federer, corner bead=is a metal strip normal 8' long that goes on outside square corners. it's maybe 27gauge metal bent to 90 degrees. it has holes punched everywhere, smaller holes for nails/screws, larger holes for mud to go into to hold the mud while drying. personally, I prefer my beads nailed on, with a nail in at least every other hole. and I like my beads taped also simply for extra strength. if corner bead is not installed straight and square? your corner wont be either.
> 
> paper tape= is simply that. it's 2" wide 250' long, has a crease in the center for bending to make inside corners. the square inside corners where wall meets ceiling. for vaulted ceilings, where the corners are not square, there is a paper bead, much like paper tape but has a very thin piece of metal in the center = paper bead. this bead requires a true professional, who care about their work! as it's very difficult to keep straight.
> ...


thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions. now its clear to me. so thats what outside and inside corners mean. 
now i dont have a vaulted ceiling but if you look in the pic there is a slant angle in my ceiling at about maybe 40degree? so is this where the paper bead needs to go? 

also is 1/2in ok for the ceiling thats upstairs? thanks for your input! you sound like a pro.


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## coupe (Nov 25, 2011)

yes federer, paper bead should work fine on 40 degree angle. if your taper will use it? how straight will end up? is up to him and his skills, as well as how straight the corner is to begin with? nobody can make chicken salad out of chicken poop. if they do? don't eat it!

and 1/2" should be okay if nails are 16"oc?

so glad to be of some help. a pro? I did drywall for over 30 years, before a stroke set me down next to my office window to watch the world go on by.

good luck
as always, just my thoughts. take what helps?ignore the rest!

coupe/Larry


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## titanoman (Nov 27, 2011)

coupe said:


> yes federer, paper bead should work fine on 40 degree angle. if your taper will use it? how straight will end up? is up to him and his skills, as well as how straight the corner is to begin with? nobody can make chicken salad out of chicken poop. if they do? don't eat it!
> 
> and 1/2" should be okay if nails are 16"oc?
> 
> ...


They also make a plastic strip, the same material as what they use for round corner bead, flat but perforated down the center for easy bending, that you press into the mud, then tape over, to absorb all the imperfections in a transitional area.
All the tapers I have seen work in these types of areas use an angular bead of some sort as there is no way to make a straight line in an imperfect hanging job.

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy S2


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

wow 30 years. sorry about your early retirement....
my contractor didnt buy any bead at all....work starts monday. pictures to come! hopefully you guys approve!


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