# Sagging ceiling liner



## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm getting ready to sell my old van and I need to clean it up a bit. The lining along the ceiling is starting to sag in some areas. I was wondering - can I run a hot air gun along some of those areas to soften the adhesive and then press the lining back in place? Or is there another trick that will work?


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

If it is a fabric liner probably not. It has likely already stretched from its own weight.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I don't know any trick that will work for a shot headliner. It is one of those things that apparently can only be fixed by getting a new one. I have the same issue with my Camaro... just the front edge coming loose. The rest can't be too far behind. :-/


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm sure you guys know more about cars then I do, years ago I used some thing I ordered from J.C. Whitney that looked like plastic disks with a shaft on them that worked sort of like a pop rivit on an older model chevy my wife had that worked.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Never seen anything like that. If you can find it post a link. Only problem is that you might stick up one spot but headliners usually keep coming loose so before long you'd have the roof covered with these things. But I'd like to see what you are talking about.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

nothing glues wise works. reason being, outside liner sags because underlying foam peels off. it peels off because it simply deteriorated. crumbled, in layman English. yes, you staple it or else. good luck selling car like that.


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## CATliftTech (Nov 20, 2011)

First of all, the reason the headliner fails on vehicles is... The owner smokes, or a previous owner did! The by products of smoking break down the adhesive and release the foam backed fabrics.

The only answer is to remove the headliner, reapply contact cement, and reinstall the headliner.

It's not difficult if you take your time, but it is a good deal of work. Figure the major part of a Saturday if you've never done it. The other option, take it to an automotive trim shop and have them do it.

If you smoke, your next vehicle will do the same thing, given time. If you are buying a used vehicle, don't buy one a smoker owned! It wrecks the upholstery, not only the smell, but the adhesives that hold upholstery to the panels.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

CATliftTech said:


> First of all, the reason the headliner fails on vehicles is... The owner smokes, or a previous owner did! The by products of smoking break down the adhesive and release the foam backed fabrics.
> 
> The only answer is to remove the headliner, reapply contact cement, and reinstall the headliner.
> 
> ...



good one. y'all have my word - it's been attempted and several times. as a result, after few hours wasted on headliner removal, cleaning it, using spray on or brush on glues, result was like this:
1. the fabric itself is so thin that glue soaks and shows threw
2. even if you succeed with gentle-most glue application, it is virtually impossible to evenly re-stretch fabric back on
3. even if you conquered #1 and #2 (and I work with glues professionally 5 days a week) - it all peels off in about 2-3 days, as, like I said before - UNDERPLAYING FOAM SIMPLY CRUMBLES AWAY.
the only method that really worked was stapling darn thing back to the headliner base.
the only real success I had, on my son's 94 Eclipse, was to remove headliner, remove all foam completely, and then we glued new Naugahyde skin on. actually, came out very nice, as it looks like leather.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

CATliftTech said:


> First of all, the reason the headliner fails on vehicles is... The owner smokes, or a previous owner did! The by products of smoking break down the adhesive and release the foam backed fabrics.
> 
> 
> 
> If you smoke, your next vehicle will do the same thing, given time. If you are buying a used vehicle, don't buy one a smoker owned! It wrecks the upholstery, not only the smell, but the adhesives that hold upholstery to the panels.


My dad smoked until he was 87, and in all the GMs he ever owned, not one had headliner problems. The cars did stink however. On the other hand, our new 95 Regal did have a small headliner problem later in its life, and I don't believe a smoker even sat in that car, let alone someone actually smoking in it. I think ukrkoz has the real culprit...a break down of the foam liner....and not from smoking, but simply roof heat and age.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Agree... smoking is nasty but hardly the main cause of headliner failure. Never smoked in my life... no one has ever smoked in my car. Headliner is still failing. Just old dry rotted foam lining. It's called entropy.



polarzak said:


> My dad smoked until he was 87, and in all the GMs he ever owned, not one had headliner problems. The cars did stink however. On the other hand, our new 95 Regal did have a small headliner problem later in its life, and I don't believe a smoker even sat in that car, let alone someone actually smoking in it. I think ukrkoz has the real culprit...a break down of the foam liner....and not from smoking, but simply roof heat and age.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

raylo32 said:


> Agree... smoking is nasty but hardly the main cause of headliner failure. Never smoked in my life... no one has ever smoked in my car. Headliner is still failing. Just old dry rotted foam lining. It's called entropy.


Right- smoking cigarettes being the primary cause of headliner "rot" is baseless, and Id like to see where this tale started. My van's headliner is rotted, and looking like a project for me- and I dont smoke- never- I am the original owner.

headliner sag is usually caused by oxidation of the foam from time/oxygen/heat from the blistering sun's rays. No way to fix right other than remove the entire headliner assembly, and get new cloth, and spray 3M heat resistant (or similar) neoprene based spray adhesive (pricey stuff).......


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## CATliftTech (Nov 20, 2011)

Actually, I've successfully performed this operation a few times and the repair lasted for some time. I traded the vehicle (s) over a year later and the headliner still looked like new.

It's worth a try, if you want to get top dollar for your used car in a trade or outright sale. Again, take your time! Use 3M contact cement and you should do well. It takes less than a can on a mini van.


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## CATliftTech (Nov 20, 2011)

Talk to anyone in the auto trim business and they will confirm what I said. I smoked for many years and had to re- do the headliner twice on a truck I still have. It's a 79 dodge 4x4 I've owned since 1981. After I quit in 1994, I had the liner re- done a third time, by the same trim shop that did the two before, it's still up! 

I don't care what you believe about smoking! Not my concern. I talked to numerous trimmers in the business and they observe the same thing! Do, or don't believe! It's not a religion. Just stating an observation. I offered a repair for the problem. Take it for what it's worth!

Smoking polarizes discussions. Not willing to debate the pros or cons of a foolish habit! It's not something anyone " has" to do to live. It's a bad habit. If you want to continue to smoke, knock yourself out! I gave it up because it's expensive and useless!


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

CATliftTech said:


> Smoking polarizes discussions.


I think George W. Bush is the cause of headliner failures. 
(how's that for some polarization?)


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The truth is more likely in the middle ground: that smoking doesn't cause failure but maybe the chemicals do accelerate the deterioration. Of course since W (or maybe Newt in '94?) no logical fact-based middle ground idea about anything is acceptable. Hence smoking must either cause failure, or not... even if the facts say otherwise. ;-)




polarzak said:


> I think George W. Bush is the cause of headliner failures.
> (how's that for some polarization?)


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

Back in high-school, a friend of mine got an '86 turbo Sunbird GT shortly after his 16th birthday. His dad was a car-guy, and the thing was rock-solid, mechanically speaking. The headliner sucked though (the previous owner was a smoker, for those keeping track of that debate). 

His mom was a craft guru and made it look like new in no-time. The old headliner and foam were removed. From the craft store, a foam backer was purchased. It was probably 1/4" thick and semi-rigid material. The foam was trimmed to the same shape as the previous headliner, then covered with some new matching fabric with spray-adhesive and installed on the ceiling. I'm not sure how long the headliner lasted, but it was still up and in place when he finally joined the rest of us and bought a Camaro 3 years later. (We were big F-body guys back then).

FWIW, my family's GMs of that era all had suck headliners: '83 Grand Prix, '86 Camaro IROC (miss that car), '89 Jimmy.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

polarzak said:


> I think George W. Bush is the cause of headliner failures.
> (how's that for some polarization?)


LOL!! Wrong, though, blaming Bush for headliner sag- Bush can only take the blame for stuff like Huricane Katrina hitting New Orleans, or Global warming, or the earthquake in Turkey in 2006, etc, but not headliner sag........


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

CATliftTech said:


> Talk to anyone in the auto trim business and they will confirm what I said. I smoked for many years and had to re- do the headliner twice on a truck I still have. It's a 79 dodge 4x4 I've owned since 1981. After I quit in 1994, I had the liner re- done a third time, by the same trim shop that did the two before, it's still up!
> 
> I don't care what you believe about smoking! Not my concern. I talked to numerous trimmers in the business and they observe the same thing! Do, or don't believe! It's not a religion. Just stating an observation. I offered a repair for the problem. Take it for what it's worth!
> 
> Smoking polarizes discussions. Not willing to debate the pros or cons of a foolish habit! It's not something anyone " has" to do to live. It's a bad habit. If you want to continue to smoke, knock yourself out! I gave it up because it's expensive and useless!


Sorry, CAT- didnt mean to sound like attacking you on this- appology if it sounded like that. But, no need to let it turn into anything. And I dont take my position cuz I have an ax to grind against smokers either- not at all. 

Last thing I want is to attack a fellow member who has helped me out in the past. Didnt mean to have come out tat way, though. Just when I hear of testimonial "proof" like that, even if you were told by others, Im the most skeptical guy on this forum, guaranteed- its my occupation, I guess.

Too many sacred cows out there. especially in the auto business. I "feel" this smoking cause may be close to being one, thats all. I just ask for more than anecdotal evidence, and not hearsay/second hand/testimonial evidence, as that is the LOWEST form of scientific evidence out there. And you should demand the same thing. 

Anyway, keep that car out of the sun!!


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## sleepyg (Dec 30, 2011)

Did not see it in any reply so if if was sorry for the repost. Use upholstery tacks, you know the ones that have the cork screw end on them and look like thumb tacks? Worked great on a 88 Regal and a 89 S15 Jimmy!

All I did was start from the center and smoothed the liner out as I worked my way to the outside, then just tucked the excess in to the trim.


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