# Car does not go into gear



## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

People,

1987 Pontiac Sunbird GT, original owner. 221,000 miles original clutch, manual transmission. Car sat for 3 weeks and went to start it up and put into reverse gear and the "gear" was grinding so I did not force. Then tried to put into 1st gear and same thing, grinding, no force. Could it be clutch line problem not disengaging the clutch?

Thanks, people.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Sounds to me like a clutch hydraulics problem. Start by confirming fluid level in the clutch master, then confirm operation at the slave (whether there's sufficient travel in the piston to operate the clutch fork).


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Will do, Hue. Fluid level is at max. Will have someone here push in the clutch pedal and I will observe the slave pivoting arm for travel.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

The next time it happens, try shifting it into second gear (while keeping the clutch depressed). Then attempt going into reverse.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, I measured the travel for the pin on the slave and it travels very close to 7/16" as stated in the shop manual. Then I started the car and tried again, and it grinds in reverse, and doesnt even grind at all in any forward gear (I may have not remembered correctly first time around thinking the 1st gear also grinded). I am now puzzled. Not ready yet to simply blame the slave and put in a new one. There has to be another approach....


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

papereater said:


> OK, I measured the travel for the pin on the slave and it travels very close to 7/16" as stated in the shop manual. Then I started the car and tried again, and it grinds in reverse, and doesnt even grind at all in any forward gear (I may have not remembered correctly first time around thinking the 1st gear also grinded). I am now puzzled. Not ready yet to simply blame the slave and put in a new one. There has to be another approach....


It gets more fun after that. The clutch is not running free, rust on the spline, warped disk, broken spring in the pressure plate?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> It gets more fun after that. The clutch is not running free, rust on the spline, warped disk, broken spring in the pressure plate?


Thanks, Neal. So in your opinion if the checks for the slave cylinder travel distance "pass" gotta be internal, meaning new clutch? (Of course, while one is at it new bushing, resurface the flywheel, etc etc. )

Now we are in for a project.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

It's been awhile, but I have seen a clutch disc stick to the flywheel after sitting awhile. Might put it in a low gear and rock the car hard front to back. No promises.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Sure not your case or you would have noticed it, but I had a slave bolt come loose.....and of course the throw/travel was still the same .....just not as much on the fork.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Mike Milam said:


> It's been awhile, but I have seen a clutch disc stick to the flywheel after sitting awhile. Might put it in a low gear and rock the car hard front to back. No promises.


Easy to do, got nothing to lose, car would not go into gear with engine running but should with engine off, right? Then I rock it. Last chance!


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

no luck, so on with the fun. so far I am struggling with removal of the drive axle/cv joint assbly.........please keep in touch as I may need help!


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I recommend this with caution. Put the car in first gear with the clutch depressed. Start the engine and be ready to cut it off. Make sure you have enough forward space for the car to travel 100 ft or so in case you mess up. It could release whatever is sticking.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> I recommend this with caution. Put the car in first gear with the clutch depressed. Start the engine and be ready to cut it off. Make sure you have enough forward space for the car to travel 100 ft or so in case you mess up. It could release whatever is sticking.


This may very well work. Hold the clutch down and when it gets going a little ways SLAM on the brakes.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Could also be that the clutch is just done. 221,000 miles... just sayin'.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Shouldn't it just be slipping then?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

It may have been slipping for awhile... and if he could get it moving it might still be slipping. Slippage is usually noticeable first only in the higher gears where centrifugal force doesn't multiply the grip and the high gear presents more resistance. Some drivers may not pick up on this. But if it is so far gone now that the gears only grind it could be that it has reached the point where is simply doesn't disengage enough to allow the gears to synch and mesh.



huesmann said:


> Shouldn't it just be slipping then?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> Shouldn't it just be slipping then?


Depends on what failed. If the fingers are worn through or broken, the throwout bearing goes forward but doesn't push anything and the pressure plate doesn't disengage.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, maybe not just wearing out but breakage. This is also very possible. The bottom line is that this puppy almost certainly needs a new clutch. I mean 216,000 miles... what do you want? They don't make forever clutches yet, but this one was pretty close!



HotRodx10 said:


> Depends on what failed. If the fingers are worn through or broken, the throwout bearing goes forward but doesn't push anything and the pressure plate doesn't disengage.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

raylo32 said:


> Yes, maybe not just wearing out but breakage. This is also very possible. The bottom line is that this puppy almost certainly needs a new clutch. I mean 216,000 miles... what do you want? They don't make forever clutches yet, but this one was pretty close!


I've had ones go more miles, and some less. It's not the miles, it's the number of times the clutch is engaged and disengaged. 

I agree it's time to replace this, though. Even if it's just the disc is stuck, and it can be freed this time, it's going to happen again shortly.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Of course. Also depends on type of car and driving style. I seen guys kill their clutches in a week. But there ain't many that have gone this far in a car that is driven as a daily driver in a "normal" environment. Now maybe if you live in Wyoming and shift once to get on the highway and drive 50 miles and back every day.



HotRodx10 said:


> I've had ones go more miles, and some less. It's not the miles, it's the number of times the clutch is engaged and disengaged.
> 
> I agree it's time to replace this, though. Even if it's just the disc is stuck, and it can be freed this time, it's going to happen again shortly.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

My experience has been that if one is slipping, it won't be stuck. Unless I'm not following this thread correctly?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Not sure, but IMO the jury is out on whether it is stuck or it is instead broken or worn out. Hard to tell if was slipping or not before it got "stuck" from here. 



Mike Milam said:


> My experience has been that if one is slipping, it won't be stuck. Unless I'm not following this thread correctly?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I guess it depends on the failure mode. Worn out friction material would slip. But broken pressure plate fingers (or a disintegrated TOB) won't let the disc release from the flywheel, i.e. stuck.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Agree. Easy enough to test. As Chandler posted earlier, with the engine off put it in gear, press the clutch pedal in to make the safety cutout switch (or otherwise jump the switch), and try starting it. Outside with a clear path ahead, of course! Whatever is going on in there the clutch probably should be replaced.



huesmann said:


> I guess it depends on the failure mode. Worn out friction material would slip. But broken pressure plate fingers (or a disintegrated TOB) won't let the disc release from the flywheel, i.e. stuck.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Update, replacing the clutch. What a job!! Worse than a head gasket. Almost at the point where I pop off the transmission , otherwise called transaxle.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Anyways, have I broken a record for how many miles on a 4 cylinder manual tranny clutch? 221,000 miles. Anyone do better? Just curious.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

papereater said:


> Anyone do better?


Not "better", but I had my clutch done back last October, and as far as I know that was the first one, as there is no record of it being done earlier, and I've owned it since 220,000 miles. 550,000 miles. 2001 Dodge Ram 3500 5 speed Cummins.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Clutches can be a bear for sure, but I have never done one on a front wheel driver. Maybe those are even worse?? Keep us posted. Don't forget to do the pilot bearing... if it has one.

...


papereater said:


> Update, replacing the clutch. What a job!! Worse than a head gasket. Almost at the point where I pop off the transmission , otherwise called transaxle.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

chandler48 said:


> Not "better", but I had my clutch done back last October, and as far as I know that was the first one, as there is no record of it being done earlier, and I've owned it since 220,000 miles. 550,000 miles. 2001 Dodge Ram 3500 5 speed Cummins.


You done good, Chandler. But to keep this "context" in the proper class- 4 cylinder engine, 1980's technology. That Dodge Ram diesel is a much heavier class vehicle. Doesnt count......LOL


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Wow, finally got the transaxle out, and on the ground. Removed the flywheel and clutch parts. Clutch finger "tips" show deep wear, like gouged metal. Could that be the reason my clutch failed? Anyway, time to order parts. Help requested here- I need a new clutch kit, and would you also replace the throw out bearing? Kinda dumb if one doesnt replace it now, after 34 years, right?

Also, I want to replace the seals, I know one is the rear engine seal, just behind the flywheel, and the other it where the right axle goes into the transmission, what would you would call that? Input shaft seal? Main output shaft seal? Rock Auto has different names for the seals, not sure what I need. I need the seal that is on the transmission where the drivers side axle goes into.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Pics?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

huesmann said:


> Pics?


Wish I could. My phone is terrible. But arent front wheel drive cars all the same? One side axle drives the left wheel, the other axle drives the left wheel. Both have seals. What are they called? Maybe Im the first one here doing such a job(?). Dunno........


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Front Wheel Drive car clutch replacement. - YouTube


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Definitely replace the throwout bearing and also the pilot bearing. Good idea to also replace the engine main seal. Not sure about the axle seals. Seems those could be gotten to without pulling the clutch and transaxle. If so, leave 'em alone for now. Not sure what to tell you about clutch kits, I haven't looked at those in years and never for a FWD car.



papereater said:


> Wish I could. My phone is terrible. But arent front wheel drive cars all the same? One side axle drives the left wheel, the other axle drives the left wheel. Both have seals. What are they called? Maybe Im the first one here doing such a job(?). Dunno........


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

buy a clutch kit, has everything. 

axle seals 

have fun getting the rear main out, though it may be in a plate.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 31, 2021)

Just because you can see the rear main seal doesn't mean it can be easily replaced. And, don't buy a remanufactured clutch kit. Make sure the pressure plate is new. If the fingers on the clutch were worn there is a good possibility that the throw-out bearing was the problem. How do the other parts look now that you can see them in daylight?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If the fingers are worn, the throwout bearing is likely the reason for that. So yes, replace the throwout bearing and pilot bearing, which should come with the clutch kit. I would recommend replacing the flywheel, unless you can find a machine shop that will resurface it for you, which is doubtful in my experience.

I'm not sure about the engine rear main seal, if it's not leaking. The existing seal will be seated and worn a small groove in the crankshaft. The new seal may not seat the same as the existing, so you may be creating a problem, rather than preventing one. Then again, I may incorrect or overthinking it.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I'm a big fan of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but inside a clutch housing, I'd replace everything. Drive plate, driven plate, throw out bearing, and don't forget the pivot ball if it fitted with one. While your hydraulics may seem to be good, I would also change out the clutch master/slave as a unit to make sure you have the proper action to release the clutch.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

We really need some pictures! I don't are how crappy your phone is! ;-) I'd like to see what the engine compartment looks like with transaxle, clutch and flywheel removed. And a question... is it still called a rear main seal on a FWD transverse mounted motor? ;-)


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

raylo32 said:


> I'd like to see what the engine compartment looks like with transaxle, clutch and flywheel removed.
> 
> And a question... is it still called a rear main seal on a FWD transverse mounted motor? ;-)


i've done them.

yes


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, but they are sideways!



Fix'n it said:


> i've done them.
> 
> yes


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

raylo32 said:


> Yes, but they are sideways!


what are you talking about ?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Engine is mounted transversely so maybe the seal should be called a side main seal. Just a lame joke that I didn't expect would need explanation. My bad.



Fix'n it said:


> what are you talking about ?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Replace the rear main seal, lubed up, behind flywheel. If you can turn flywheel, do it, but only if you have plenty of adjustment. Slave cylinder is on the outside so it should have enough adjustment to take a turned flywheel. It not, new flywheel. Can't turn it on a brake lathe. Doesn't work. Replace pilot bushing/bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. Check the throw out bearing yoke (fork) for wear. Torque Flywheel. Very important. And when you get ready the install the disc, slide it on the input shaft to see if it fits. Want to find out now if it fits instead out finding out when you are stabbing transmission.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Brainbucket said:


> And when you get ready the install the disc, slide it on the input shaft to see if it fits. Want to find out now if it fits instead out finding out when you are stabbing transmission.


That's a good tip.

Also, be sure to use the alignment tool (plastic replica of the transmission input shaft) to center the clutch disc when you're bolting the pressure plate on, so the input shaft will line up with the pilot bearing when you're stabbing the transmission onto the engine.

Also helpful for aligning the transmission, it helps alot to have a couple of 5"-6" long bolts to that thread into the holes for the mounting bolts that attach the transmission to the engine (side ones work best). That way you can roughly align the transmission a few inches away from the engine, and just slide it up to the engine, put a bolt in the top, and then replace the long ones with the ones that came out of it.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

What is even more helpful is if you have those long bolts, cut off the heads and cut a slot in the end, like a flathead screw. You can then thread those into the block and use them as guides for the bellhousing—basically slide the bellhousing onto the guide bolts. Once it's mated up to the block and you have some of the other bolts fastened, you can use a screwdriver in the slots to remove the guide bolts.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

huesmann said:


> What is even more helpful is if you have those long bolts, cut off the heads and cut a slot in the end, like a flathead screw. You can then thread those into the block and use them as guides for the bellhousing—basically slide the bellhousing onto the guide bolts. Once it's mated up to the block and you have some of the other bolts fastened, you can use a screwdriver in the slots to remove the guide bolts.


for an auto trans, sure. for a manual, no = the trans almost always is going to need to be rocker around, sometimes a lot, to get it stabbed.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

This is for a manual trans. The guide bolts help keep the trans in place while you line up the input shaft with the pilot bearing.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

huesmann said:


> This is for a manual trans. The guide bolts help keep the trans in place while you line up the input shaft with the pilot bearing.


i know what you are saying, and it sounds good on paper. but in real life stabbing a manual trans, it often doesn't work that way. i've done a lot of clutch replacements


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fix'n it said:


> i know what you are saying, and it sounds good on paper. but in real life stabbing a manual trans, it often doesn't work that way. i've done a lot of clutch replacements


Depending on the weight of the trans or how awkward the space, stabbing is not always easy.
Aligning pins is a trick that is nice to know for the times you just can't get the dam thing in there.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i once worked in a trans shop. i have R&R 100's of tran's. and then those i did for myself, on my back, with a floor jack.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have only done a couple and it was like this, with a floor jack and on my back with a trans on my chest... and it was never easy. I remember feeling great relief and joy when the trans shaft went in. Almost like an... well, we'll leave it at that.



Fix'n it said:


> ...and then those i did for myself, on my back, with a floor jack.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

raylo32 said:


> I have only done a couple and it was like this, with a floor jack and on my back with a trans on my chest... and it was never easy. I remember feeling great relief and joy when the trans shaft went in. Almost like an... well, we'll leave it at that.


the very first one i did, remove from one car and put it in another car after removing that one, both Gremlins. i was a teen. i did them on a sloped gravel driveway. 

btw, a pointer = put the trans on the jack.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I didn't have room. And don't worry, I don't plan to do any more clutches! I still do a lot of DIY but I am done with that.



Fix'n it said:


> btw, a pointer = put the trans on the jack.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Fix'n it said:


> for an auto trans, sure. for a manual, no = the trans almost always is going to need to be rocker around, sometimes a lot, to get it stabbed.


I don't have your level of experience, but the few manual transmissions I've done went in just fine using the long bolts as alignment pins. On one of them, I did have to temporarily insert the axle shafts and turn one of them to align the input shaft splines with clutch plate grooves. The others I just left in neutral so I could reach in and rotate the input shaft a little with my hand to align it.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Sorry for delay in replying, people, too much work. Thanks for all the replies, and ideas. I am now struggling with the rear main seal. That felpro seal has to be out of spec as it does not pop in for beans. They typically pop in without too much trouble, some even with finger pressure. Gonna return it. Buy another brand. Other parts are in the mail........What a job.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i have replaced maybe 100 rear main seals. they never "pop in". well, except for LS engine seals, but those are already installed on a plate, so they just bolt on. if they popped in, then they would fall out. some can be a bit of a pita to install.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Fix'n it said:


> i have replaced maybe 100 rear main seals. they never "pop in". well, except for LS engine seals, but those are already installed on a plate, so they just bolt on. if they popped in, then they would fall out. some can be a bit of a pita to install.


Thanks, fix, but then, how do you do it? Mine is a 4" wide one, should I buy a 4" pvc pipe, and put a wood block behind it, and tap with mallet?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

......


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

So I understand about lubing up the lip of the main seal, but do you put anything on the outer edge, like black RTV sealant? Or absolutely no sealant at all? The felpro seal came with that, instructions were so confusing.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

papereater said:


> but do you put anything on the outer edge, like black RTV sealant? or absolutely no sealant at all?
> 
> The felpro seal came with that, instructions were so confusing.


no, but you can if you want. 

the seal came with sealant ? first time i seen that. i would use a small screwdriver and put a thin coat in the bore, and then a thin coat on the outer metal seal surface.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Depending on the seal and its intended install depth, you can fab up a simple installer tool with a flat disc (wood, metal, whatever). Drill holes in the disc to match any holes in the thing the seal is supposed to seal (crank, cam, etc.). Set the seal in place, cover with the disc, and use the bolts for the thing to draw the disc in to whatever depth you need. Depending whether or not your seal retainer is proud or countersunk, you may need spacers or rings for your disc.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If you can find a piece of pipe of the right diameter, that would be the best thing, I think.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

HotRodx10 said:


> If you can find a piece of pipe of the right diameter, that would be the best thing, I think.


Like 4" PVC coupling. Thats what I guessed. Now I have 2 good idea, this one and Huesmans diagram gizmo. Thanks, people.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Problem with knocking it in with pipe is getting it to seat the seal evenly. When you use bolts on a pattern to draw the seal in, you can incrementally tighten them more or less evenly so your seal doesn't get installed crooked. If there's a single bolt, e.g. a camshaft, it'll pretty much draw it in evenly already since it's centered.

Second potential problem with pipe is over-driving.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Wow, got that seal in! Now next problem, I popped out the 2 seals on the transmission, the 2 driveaxle seals, and on one, it was to stubborn, I ended up gouging the race that holds the seal in. But, opinions: it is so bad if the depth of the scrape is barely noticeable if you rub your fingernail against it, so slightly feeling the gouge. Guess theres no way to fix that, right? The new seals have some kind of coating on that surface, not sure if it is rubber, or epoxy, etc. Could that take up that slight scrape?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Thought- apply a thin smear of black (oil resistant) silicone sealant on the race?? Can it hurt?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you gouge the race/seal retainer, there are a few repair methods you can try, including the smear or RTV just before you install. You can also try carefully sanding the gouge smooth so that the rubber on the seal can press outward into the divot and still seal. You can fill with JB Weld and smooth it out. You can weld material into the gouge and file/sand smooth.

Really, depends on the depth of the gouge.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Is this Bird flying yet?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

raylo32 said:


> Is this Bird flying yet?


Thanks for the interest and follow up, Ray. Sad news, Rock Auto sent me the wrong clutch kit, TWO times!! I returned the 1st one saying it was a totally diferent pressure plate, and they sent me the same one again! What incompetent management! They have so many bad reviews, I never thought! I am done with RA! 

Ordered it from a local AZ, arriving Tuesday. This project is going on a month now. It WILL fly again!


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

papereater said:


> What incompetent management! They have so many bad reviews, I never thought! I am done with RA!


I've never had a problem with them.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I've heard that RA will happily exchange wrong parts—*that are wrong because they're incorrectly listed in their system*—yet fail to update the incorrect info in their system.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

RA's shipping methods and times ain't what they were in the early days. I have been sorely disappointed the last couple of times I used them, which admittedly was awhile ago.

I am actually buying more OEM parts these days for my Tacoma. There is a Toyota corporate web site that lets you search for and buy parts at a discount from participating dealers to be shipped to your house or picked up at the dealer. My closest dealer does not participate but a couple others nearby do. They are almost as good at this e-commerce as Amazon. A few clicks, a couple e-mail confirmations, walk in to the parts counter and walk out with your part. The only thing I don't like is you can only see the discount price at one dealer at a time which makes comparison a PITA. But I am normally going to choose the dealer closest to me anyway.

Not sure if any of the other MFGs have gone this route but they should.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

HotRodx10 said:


> I've never had a problem with them.


Glad for you with your experience. I installed a rack/pinion on my sunbird- 2 years later and only 14,000 miles late it leaks bad. Installed a driver side transaxle, both black rubber boots destroyed in 1 year. Original lasted about 20 years before boots ripped. These are DIY projects only for serious owners. Not easy to remove/return for new part. 

Online reviews are shocking. I have never seen reviews so bad anywhere. mostly 1 stars. They have no customer service reps, no phone #, not even basic rudimentary email capability. You are just communicating with a computer menu for problems. They lost another customer.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Im stuck. clutch is in, and the horrible part is lining up/mating the bell housing with the engine. I checked the center splines on the new clutch to make sure they fit into the input shaft.

I got 5 big bolts in but before I tighten them all up the bell housing does not mate up nicely/evenly. It is lopsided. sticks out at the bottom. I jostled/jolted the whole transmission back/forth with no luck. The last bolt does not line up and wont thread in for beans. How can this be, isnt the splined rod supposed to in straight?

It was a bear getting it in. Hate to undo and stab it again. Ive done a few before with no problems. Will likely have to yank the transmission again, and try the stab again. Tips appreciated.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Wife is helping. She thinks the car is a junk. I told her it is not a junk cuz the ac still works......


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

papereater said:


> I jostled/jolted the whole transmission back/forth with no luck. The last bolt does not line up and wont thread in for beans. How can this be, isnt the splined rod supposed to in straight?


Did you use the alignment tool to keep the clutch disc centered while you tightened the bolts that connect the pressure plate to the flywheel?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

HotRodx10 said:


> Did you use the alignment tool to keep the clutch disc centered while you tightened the bolts that connect the pressure plate to the flywheel?


Yes. I am sure the shaft entered the spline. It just does not go all the way. The top of the bell housing touches the engine but the bottom does not. It is twisted. May have to pull it out and do again........


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

papereater said:


> Yes. I am sure the shaft entered the spline.


It's not the shaft going into the spline that's the potential issue, it's the end of the shaft going into the pilot bearing that I thought might be the problem.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

HotRodx10 said:


> It's not the shaft going into the spline that's the potential issue, it's the end of the shaft going into the pilot bearing that I thought might be the problem.


So I jostled the entire transmission after loosening a few bolts and it popped in!!!! Wopeeeeee! Finally. 
Anyway, the rest was a patch up job. Drove it today, and man, runs like new. I was scared for a while, people.

What a job, harder than a head gasket. And ac overhaul (including yanking a dashboard). hardest job yet for me. Thanks to all here who walked me through it!


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Ok, drove it to work and the thread continues, the tachometer is wacky. It reads say, 5000rpm when I KNOW it is only around 3000. At idle is was always around 1200 and now it reads 4200 or so. I connected the loose elec wires back to where (I thought ) they should be. There is a rpm sensor in the trans, right? Why does it read so high?

Otherwise, car runs great.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Trans would not have an RPM sensor. If anything it would be on the engine.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

On a car that old you might still have a speedo gear and cable that connects up to the trans. Maybe. But I don't recall where the tach signal come from on my last car with a transmission speedo gear. Nowadays it is all electronic but I am not sure how they got the tach signal back then.



huesmann said:


> Trans would not have an RPM sensor. If anything it would be on the engine.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

The tachometer gets a signal from the speedometer cable? This _is_ a 34-year old car we're talking about here!


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

huesmann said:


> Trans would not have an RPM sensor. If anything it would be on the engine.


I believe on some vehicles, the sensor for the tach reads the flywheel, so the sensor would be mounted to the bell housing. I'm not saying this is one of them, though. I didn't find any info on what feeds the tach for this vehicle in my cursory search.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

The RPM signal comes off the negative side of your ignition coil, through a tach filter, then your tach.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Brainbucket said:


> The RPM signal comes off the negative side of your ignition coil, through a tach filter, then your tach.


That's good to know. So, it might be the filter?

I have a Nissan pickup that's had the same issue for quite a while, though not as extreme. I couldn't find any info about that for it, either.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> The RPM signal comes off the negative side of your ignition coil, through a tach filter, then your tach.


I will look at the coil in the morning to see if I dislodged a wire or clip. Thanks Brain, and others. I could also research the shop manual for that.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

No loose wires/connectors/clips anywhere! I swear I did not molest any of the electrical system during this project. And if it is the coil? isnt that a heck of a coincidence that the coil quit right when I replaced the clutch? Car runs well, so cant be a bad coil. What is the negative side of the coil?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Maybe you banged stuff around when you were dropping trans and stuff?


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

huesmann said:


> Maybe you banged stuff around when you were dropping trans and stuff?


Things happen. Point is, what would you do? Do a thorough troubleshooting for the coil? I can do that if it is the place to start. Again, I have to consult the shop manual which is as thick as the Judeochristan Bible.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

OK, after studying the Haynes manual I did a check on the coil and it passes all the 3 tests, so I figure has to be the tach filter. I found it, it is a small cylinder about 2" long, 3/4" wide, with a connector which eventually goes to the coil although I didnt follow it because so many wires in that bundle. 

Anyway, I will try to find a new one, so far have had no luck.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 31, 2021)

papereater said:


> . I connected the loose elec wires back to where (I thought ) they should be.
> 
> Otherwise, car runs great.


I'm thinking you might have connected them wrong and that would be where I would start looking. If the coil was the problem I doubt it would run well if at all.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

FirebirdHank said:


> I'm thinking you might have connected them wrong and that would be where I would start looking. If the coil was the problem I doubt it would run well if at all.


I agree, but I did check the coil, so that is cleared as the culprit (car runs great) , has to now be the tach rpm filter. Cant find one.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

And you won't. I keep one in my tool box just for testing. Came off a Camaro of around that year model. I don't think it's the filter. I think it's a bad ground. Main ground is battery to engine, the big cable. Then Body to battery, then body to engine. Check and clean those first before replacing parts.


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