# No House Wrap On New House



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

My wife and I are building a new house in Ohio, and the builder stated they only use house wrap on the corners and boxes. What exactly do they mean by boxes? Should I put home wrap on myself? When I called them and talked to them about it they stated house wrap makes the house too tight. Our siding will be vinyl siding. Any information about house wrap would be appreciated.

Thank You,

Joe


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

JoeZ430 said:


> My wife and I are building a new house in Ohio, and the builder stated they only use house wrap on the corners and boxes. What exactly do they mean by boxes? Should I put home wrap on myself? When I called them and talked to them about it they stated house wrap makes the house too tight. Our siding will be vinyl siding. Any information about house wrap would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Joe


I think what the builder meant by "boxes" is the window openings.

Also, I would highly recommend you get house wrap for your house. Don't buy into the "house too tight" BS. Housewrap allows the house to breathe, but prevents moisture and wind from penetrating into the sheathing from the outside. Vinyl siding isn't enough, especially in Ohio.

If you're going with a private builder, then you can probably have it done because the house is yours. But, if you're going with a builder who's building in a community, the house isn't yours until you settle, so the builder won't let you get it installed b/c he would be liable if something happens. 

If nothing else works, talk to the siding people, and pay them off on the side to install it before the house gets sided. Just make sure the builder does not find out. When I had my new house built, the builder quoted me $2500 to get the house wrapped up. I paid the siding guys $750 on the down low and got it done. The only drawback to this is that the windows were installed already.


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

handy man88 said:


> I think what the builder meant by "boxes" is the window openings.
> 
> Also, I would highly recommend you get house wrap for your house. Don't buy into the "house too tight" BS. Housewrap allows the house to breathe, but prevents moisture and wind from penetrating into the sheathing from the outside. Vinyl siding isn't enough, especially in Ohio.
> 
> ...


Thank for the fast reply! We are building the house in a community, and we were quoted at 660 to do the wrapping. The house is only 1212 SQF so it shouldn't be to bad to do this. I called them and asked them if we could do it, but haven't heard anything back from them. What if this gets left undone? What are the long term effects of not wrapping the sheathing?


----------



## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

As handy man said, use house wrap.
To me, there is no excuse for not wrapping a house these days, especially one with vinyl siding.
Mike


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

JoeZ430 said:


> Thank for the fast reply! We are building the house in a community, and we were quoted at 660 to do the wrapping. The house is only 1212 SQF so it shouldn't be to bad to do this. I called them and asked them if we could do it, but haven't heard anything back from them. What if this gets left undone? What are the long term effects of not wrapping the sheathing?


Your builder is probably ignoring your request b/c they don't make money off of you having someone else do it or you doing it yourself. Also, it's their house until you settle. If I were you, I'd insist on them doing it irregardless of their recommendation.

Having house wrap will prevent drafts in the house and increase energy efficiency. It lets the house breathe, while keeping out moisture.

If you feel up to it, you could talk to the building supervisor and see how flexible he is. If he's okay, then you could wrap the house yourself right before the siding guys hit it. 

When I had my first house built by a builder, I got the permission from the building supervisor on the side and showed up one weekend and wired up my entire house with double coax and ethernet. Otherwise, the builder's contractor would have charged me $150 for each coax jack/run.


----------



## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

I know were i am in wisconsin it is required to use wrap on all living space. for 660 bucks deffinitally have them wrap it. the rolls are something like 80 bucks for a 150 ft. The house will breathe just fine with it on. Do some research on tyvek or other brand names and you will find they are breathable materials.


----------



## scorrpio (Aug 14, 2006)

I'd threaten the builder to make it widely known that they don't use the wrap. In present day housing market, this builder will have a real hard time getting any contracts if this becomes known. Wrap is a must if you don't want your house to rot within a few years. The siding does wery little to stop water penetration, and it is the wrap which blocks the water from going deeper. Felt paper, Tyvek, whatever - wrap is a must.


----------



## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

scorrpio said:


> I'd threaten the builder to make it widely known that they don't use the wrap. In present day housing market, this builder will have a real hard time getting any contracts if this becomes known. Wrap is a must if you don't want your house to rot within a few years. The siding does wery little to stop water penetration, and it is the wrap which blocks the water from going deeper. Felt paper, Tyvek, whatever - wrap is a must.


Yes get the house wrapped, but "it will rot in a few years" is a bit extreme. Notice all the circa 1980's and all prior homes still standing?


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Anyone who has ever removed vinyl siding on a home that was not covered with housewrap would KNOW the damage that is done by water infiltration around windows. With OSB sheathing, it doesn't take much time at all for this to happen, and a few years would be a pretty accurate estimate. Water runs down the side j-channels and goes right behind the siding at the bottom corners of every window. 

All national building codes REQUIRE housewrap under vinyl siding. So why isn't your contractor abiding by those standards? Because he's cheap and wants to save a few bucks in time, labor and materials.

If he gives you any flack, call your state attorney general and the better business bureau. 

I certainly would not do it yourself. This is your builder's responsibility.


----------



## scorrpio (Aug 14, 2006)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Yes get the house wrapped, but "it will rot in a few years" is a bit extreme. Notice all the circa 1980's and all prior homes still standing?


Tyvek might not have been around circa 1980, but felt paper sure was. My 1940's house has a dual layer of felt under original clapboard siding (which was sided over with shingle at some point), and under felt, it is all sound. However, previous owner installed a sliding door about 6 years ago, and failed to properly rewrap the opening. By the time I got to it, the sill plate under the door (a 60 year old 4x6 that is, where under wrap, is hard as a rock) was rotten through - and sheathing that was supposed to cover it - 1" thick shiplap planks - was just gone. We do get lots of rain here in northern NJ. Remember, it is not just water's work. Let the wood get and stay wet, and fungus/bugs all over the negihborhood will be coming for dinner. I am scared to think what 2 years sans wrap will do to all the OSB used for sheathing new houses.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Oct 31, 2007)

You must have some form of building paper on conditioned space. The preferred choice is Typar/Tyvek whichever is in your area, second choice is at least a 15lb building paper. Unless you finish the garage it doesn't require it. 

If you can get the whole house done for $ 660.00, pay it, get it done and over with.

But confirm with the builder if he's not using Tyvek, what is he using?


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

You have all been helpful with questions I had yesterday and am now running into this same issue. We are building a new house and from what the builder's office is telling me is that they normally dont wrap - I hope she knows what she's talking about! Anyway, thanks for the great questions to ask. I wish I would have checked here first before agreeing to anything. If there's anything else I should ask, please let me know. Of course now, I'm just really anxious about the wrapping. I thought for sure that would have been a standard feature. Live and learn I guess.


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm going to call the builder today and find out what the deal is. I was planning on calling the city to try and find out if it's code to use Tyvek in our area, which I think I read something that if the house has vinyl siding then it's not required. The funny thing is, this was never explained to us before we signed off on the blue prints, so if we want the change more than likely we will have to pay a fee for breaking what we originally signed off on with our upgrades.


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm going to do the same - where would I call the local construction office in our Township? I'm in Southern NJ. We'll also have vinyl siding. Again, I thought it was standard but this chat has been so helpful as I'm finding out many things aren't. And, like you, we signed off on any upgrades as well. Our windows are already in as well. Good luck to you - and hopefully to me too!


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> You have all been helpful with questions I had yesterday and am now running into this same issue. We are building a new house and from what the builder's office is telling me is that they normally dont wrap - I hope she knows what she's talking about! Anyway, thanks for the great questions to ask. I wish I would have checked here first before agreeing to anything. If there's anything else I should ask, please let me know. Of course now, I'm just really anxious about the wrapping. I thought for sure that would have been a standard feature. Live and learn I guess.



What state do you live in? I would suggest talking to the city as well to find out for sure if Tyvek is in the city code. I'm pretty sure it also matters what kind of siding you will be getting on your home.


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> I'm going to do the same - where would I call the local construction office in our Township? I'm in Southern NJ. We'll also have vinyl siding. Again, I thought it was standard but this chat has been so helpful as I'm finding out many things aren't. And, like you, we signed off on any upgrades as well. Our windows are already in as well. Good luck to you - and hopefully to me too!


I'm going to be calling city hall, and asking them for the building inspectors department. You should ask your builder if they are are going to be placing ANY Tyvek on the house. For example, our builder told us they will be placing Tyvek on the corners, and boxes. Good luck to you!


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

I just talked to the building inspector, and they said the code is now state level. They said it's not required unless there is brick.


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks - I'm in Williamstown, NJ. I'll call the township construction office first and see if they can direct me. Its vinyl siding - I'm sure I have the brand name somewhere if needed. I left a note in another room that basically this is my job - my husband is a numbers guy so I do all this legwork. Therefore, I will say again, this site and you nice folks in the chat are a GODSEND!!!


----------



## scorrpio (Aug 14, 2006)

I'll reiterate - wrap is extremely important, no matter the siding. Wind-driven rain easily penetrates most types of siding, and then it is the wrap which blocks its further intrusion. The absolute best way is to install furring over the wrap to provide run-off channels for water under the siding - but vinyl, due to loose nailing, generall gives that space anyway. The wrap should also be permeable, letting moisture that somehow does reach beneath it to evaporate. Wrap should be installed per manufacturer spec - top overlapping bottom at least 4", fastened with designated fasteners and taped. Window and doors, a 'modified I' should be cut and wrapped into the opening. 

Also, some wraps and some sidings don't work togeather. I.E. cedar shingles contain substances that will eat Tyvek. Under cedar, you want #30 felt. But with vinyl, Tyvek should be fine.


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> You have all been helpful with questions I had yesterday and am now running into this same issue. We are building a new house and from what the builder's office is telling me is that they normally dont wrap - I hope she knows what she's talking about! Anyway, thanks for the great questions to ask. I wish I would have checked here first before agreeing to anything. If there's anything else I should ask, please let me know. Of course now, I'm just really anxious about the wrapping. I thought for sure that would have been a standard feature. Live and learn I guess.


If they don't wrap, and thus not part of the options, you can ask if they can customize. Usually, they will gladly do it if they can take a cut of the proceeds.


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

JoeZ430 said:


> I just talked to the building inspector, and they said the code is now state level. They said it's not required unless there is brick.


Well, even with brick, there's usually a layer of tar paper behind it.


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

Gotcha - I'm waiting to hear back from the builder. Our house is only 2400 Sq. Ft. not including the basement. If he's going to charge, how much - roughly - do you think it would cost? This will give us a good idea. Thanks again all!


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> Thanks - I'm in Williamstown, NJ. I'll call the township construction office first and see if they can direct me. Its vinyl siding - I'm sure I have the brand name somewhere if needed. I left a note in another room that basically this is my job - my husband is a numbers guy so I do all this legwork. Therefore, I will say again, this site and you nice folks in the chat are a GODSEND!!!



Besides wrap, you have to make sure that the installers use Tyvek tape to seal all seams. Even though I had my wrap installed for cheap by the siding guys, they didn't use wrap for the seams and only around the windows. Correct installation would be wrapping the "box" first and then installing the window, and taping all seams. In my case, for the seams, they just overlapped and stapled.


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks everybody for the wonderful help on this forum!


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm with you Joe!!! Thanks all! I'm sure you'll be hearing from me again - VERY SOON!


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> Gotcha - I'm waiting to hear back from the builder. Our house is only 2400 Sq. Ft. not including the basement. If he's going to charge, how much - roughly - do you think it would cost? This will give us a good idea. Thanks again all!


I'd say probably $1500. Real cost of materials probably no more than $300.


----------



## ncgrogan (Dec 3, 2006)

Dont forget your penetrations through the sheathing need to be sealed also, i.e. hose bibs, conduit penetrations, etc.


----------



## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Housewrap was not required by the 2003 IRC, but that was changed and is required by the 2006 IRC. However, not all places require compliance with that set of standards. They are the bare minimum as far as standards of quality are concerned.

For some interesting reading, check out the comments at:

http://www.nachi.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-15057.html

The bottom line is that you don't want to void the mfg. warranty for your siding or any other wall componant, such as your windows by NOT using some type of building paper. Almost all products require some type of building paper, whether it be a housewrap like Tyvek or the old standby, #15 felt.

You want building paper behind any type of siding, but ESPECIALLY vinyl! ... nuf said!


----------



## Chris Johnson (Oct 31, 2007)

If the builder is not using some form of building paper, tar paper or house wrap than how in the world is he flashing your windows? Is he flashing your windows?

If he is doing window flashing and no paper on the house and moisture that gets in the top can not always run past the top layer of flashing, get behind and start to rot.


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi all, 

I just found out from the builder that normally he just uses tar paper. However, if we want Tyvek its $450 more. Your thoughts? I'm thinking go with the Tyvek but not sure. Opinions are appreciated!!!


----------



## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just found out from the builder that normally he just uses tar paper. However, if we want Tyvek its $450 more. Your thoughts? I'm thinking go with the Tyvek but not sure. Opinions are appreciated!!!


Tyvek is better. Make sure they will install before windows, and all seams will be taped.


----------



## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

tyvek is more expensive than tar paper but it takes less labor to put on. tyvek comes in various lengths so it only takes one row, tar paper generally comes in about a 3 ft. roll so you would need 3 rows of it. I would go with the tyvek cause it is a better seal for air and moisture since all seems and openings(if done correctly) get taped and sealed


----------



## Mike Swearingen (Mar 15, 2005)

Tar paper is for roofing and does not "breathe".
Go with the water proof house wrap that does. You won't regret doing it.
Mike


----------



## missyz17 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Mike - for $450 I agree - again you guys are the best!!! I dont think I'll have any more questions for a while but I know where to find you if I do - happy holidays all!

Michele


----------



## JoeZ430 (Nov 27, 2007)

missyz17 said:


> Thanks Mike - for $450 I agree - again you guys are the best!!! I dont think I'll have any more questions for a while but I know where to find you if I do - happy holidays all!
> 
> Michele


Wow! That's pretty good for 2800 Sq. Our builder quoted us at 660 for 1218 Sq house - minus the basement. Are they charging anything for breaking contract?


----------

