# Gaps in cedar porch column - caulk or filler?



## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I just had the cedar base of my porch post redone, the previous base had cracked from the previous installers not using the right nails and had tannin bleed. 

It looked perfect a couple days ago after they installed it. After looking at it just now I noticed the 4 mitered corners have some small gaps forming. 

What should I do about these before I paint? They used Dynaflex 230 caulk on the other areas. Should I use that or wood filler to fill these in before painting? Thanks.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I was thinking about using a waterproof epoxy wood filler to fill it.. Does that make sense in this application?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

The Dynaflex is pretty good stuff and i think it will work in this situation. With the wood moving as it is, you need as much flex as possible. I don't think the epoxy will give you the needed flexibility. Generally the epoxies dry very hard.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> The Dynaflex is pretty good stuff and i think it will work in this situation. With the wood moving as it is, you need as much flex as possible. I don't think the epoxy will give you the needed flexibility. Generally the epoxies dry very hard.


The one reason I was thinking the epoxy is that it wouldn't dry out over time and also act as a bonding agent to connect the 2 pieces of wood together.

I'm just wondering if I should continue with the Dynaflex 230 for this part two. I guess my fear with caulk is after I paint it I didn't want it easily pulling off the wood. I also wanted the corners to look crisp but maybe I'm overthinking it with the wood epoxy?


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Quad OSI, ditch the DAP crap.

They should have used titebond and glued the miters. Gotta love guys that think buying a say and know how to cut a miter makes them a carpenter.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ChiTownPro said:


> Quad OSI, ditch the DAP crap.
> 
> They should have used titebond and glued the miters. Gotta love guys that think buying a say and know how to cut a miter makes them a carpenter.


I have a bunch of QUAD from the siding project last year, that's all we used. Hopefully it's as paintable as the DAP is. 

I agree with the titebond, the previous base all 4 pieces that made up the base split in the middle so he was probably worried about the pieces splitting again if it's held too tight and has movement.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

OSI is very paintable.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Use your fingers to press the caulk into the crack. There's a method of "gentle, yet firm" push that forces it into the crack without making a gobbed up mess of it all. Keep a wet rag handy in case you do get some caulk where you don't want it. In the end, after you paint it, you won't even know there were any cracks there. P.S. I mixed up Dynaflex and Maxflex. I use Maxflex caulking from SW. Lots of elasticity as well as quick drying.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Use your fingers to press the caulk into the crack. There's a method of "gentle, yet firm" push that forces it into the crack without making a gobbed up mess of it all. Keep a wet rag handy in case you do get some caulk where you don't want it. In the end, after you paint it, you won't even know there were any cracks there. P.S. I mixed up Dynaflex and Maxflex. I use Maxflex caulking from SW. Lots of elasticity as well as quick drying.


Thanks. Since the installer used Dynaflex 930 caulk, should I leave that in the spots he used it? Or would you recommend to try and remove some caulk and re-caulk those areas with OSI Quad?

Also, is the goal to fill the ENTIRE void of the gap with caulk? or is it just enough to seal it on the outside (so water doesn't get in)?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

You're just fine with the Dynaflex. I've used it with no problems and I use a lot of caulk.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

cjaustin81;3247529
Also said:


> Just enough to seal it. Filling much more than that causes the caulk to just fall into the crack.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

I'd tape the concrete and along the gap as close to the opening as possible. You want to pack as much in the gap as possible. The last thing you want is a failure in your caulking and a void for moisture to accumulate.

Caulk also needs to be supported. If it is not, then over time it will collapse. I doubt you want to have to do this again next year.

Start at the bottom so that it builds up a nice support base.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Cedar wood absorbs moisture and moves. Even glued, IMO, the crack will open again later, use something flexible as stated. You want the crack at top wide enough for 1/4" backer rod/caulking. Didn't back prime (or bottom edge to stop moisture wicking through concrete during rain) or relief cut the wide cedar boards, or air holes...; https://books.google.com/books?id=f...&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Gary


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Titebond exterior wouldn't open again.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

IMO, that is the least of his worries, being that close to a flower bed and almost certain they did not prime the bottom edges sitting on a giant sponge... the paint will flake/bubble fairly soon as the cedar tries to dry out with no ventilation behind it.

Gary


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Never said it was, just correcting misinformation.

It's also bunk that you need enough space for backer rod. Never seen it, never done it, no need for it.

Personally I think all of these issues can only lead to one conclusion, it needs to be torn out and done correctly.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I appreciate all the replies. I know they should have primed the end-grain but it was a moot point since the main column wasn't primed at the end grain so just doing the base wouldn't fully solve the wicking issue.

I had my painter caulk the gaps with "Tower Selants - Modified Siliconized Acrylic caulk" which has a 50-warranty. It's supposed to be really good stuff but I noticed 2 days after he applied it, some of the gaps came back (see pics).

Should I scrape the loose caulk in the gaps and re-caulk the areas that still have a gap? Is this because we didn't get enough caulk in the void? Maybe not enough caulk was pushed into the void?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Here are the other 3 angles so you can see the entire job. It looks like the caulk shrank a little bit, I just want to get to a point where I can paint this thing. I've had the base re-done twice and really just wanna wrap this project up. 

Does it just look like I need a little more caulk?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Yeah, caulk it again. Caulk does shrink as it dries and it's kinda hard to get it back into a gap that small. 

Moot point now, but priming the pieces of wood on all sides before instillation would have helped a lot. As it is now, just try to push as much caulk into the gap as possible and hope for the best. It'll probably crack again in the future no matter what you do to be honest. It's the nature of wood. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Yeah, caulk it again. Caulk does shrink as it dries and it's kinda hard to get it back into a gap that small.
> 
> Moot point now, but priming the pieces of wood on all sides before instillation would have helped a lot. As it is now, just try to push as much caulk into the gap as possible and hope for the best. It'll probably crack again in the future no matter what you do to be honest. It's the nature of wood.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll caulk and then do my 2 costs of BM Fresh Start oil based followed by the BM Ben in white


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

cjaustin81 said:


> Thanks! I'll caulk and then do my 2 costs of BM Fresh Start oil based followed by the BM Ben in white


one coat of primer is all that is needed


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

chrisn said:


> one coat of primer is all that is needed


Except on interior pre-primed trim...then you need two. :biggrin2:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

chrisn said:


> one coat of primer is all that is needed


1 coat of primer and 2 topcoats?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ChiTownPro said:


> Never said it was, just correcting misinformation.
> 
> It's also bunk that you need enough space for backer rod. Never seen it, never done it, no need for it.
> 
> Personally I think all of these issues can only lead to one conclusion, it needs to be torn out and done correctly.


It's not worth tearing out due to the expense of the cedar. After I fix the caulk and paint you will never know. The column is also covered by an eave and I will keep the paint up to date.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

It's like $12 for a 1x8x10. I would suggest redoing the columns just the base.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

ChiTownPro, stop reading here ... lol.


cjaustin81; added points on the caulking application, types, etc. for your house; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr169.pdf

Page 35 on backer thickness; https://books.google.com/books?id=X...Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=capillary break&f=false

A little hard to read, 90% strain vs. 30% by depth of bead; http://www.buildingdiagnostics.com/articles/sealant1.jpg

If you remove/replace the cedar, prime the sealant areas first for better bond;http://www.jlconline.com/projects/design-wind-smart-design_o
Next time, leave a gap at the bottom for moisture venting, even if on one side only, as the link mentions, and prime the bottoms.

Gary


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

cjaustin81 said:


> 1 coat of primer and 2 topcoats?


:thumbsup::yes:​


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I was planning on priming the post this weekend and I went to check the gaps and was disappointed to see the gaps getting bigger. 

Are these gaps too wide to caulk? I know wood has some movement but this seems like an awful lot of movement.

Would you guys recommend having this base redone again? They didn't use glue in the miter joints, should they have? They didn't nail the miters together either, should they have done that?

I'm trying to figure out how to get this done to avoid these huge gaps, if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Pull them off, clean them up, prime all sides, glue and nail them back in place.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ChiTownPro said:


> Pull them off, clean them up, prime all sides, glue and nail them back in place.


UPDATE: 

After cleaning the tannin w deck cleaner, patching the holes, using tower tech 2 caulk, priming twice w BM cedar primer, and finally 2 top coats of BM Aura.. The post is done! 

The reason the cedar was moving at the base was because it wasn't primed. I redid the base and primed everything before putting it together. Thanks for all the help.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Job well done, cjaustin. Nice to hear a success story on here from advice given.........


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Job well done, cjaustin. Nice to hear a success story on here from advice given.........


Thank you, I appreciate all the help you personally devote in these threads. :thumbsup:

For anyone looking for a very expandable caulk.. the Tower Tech 2 worked wonders. Much better than the DAP Dynaflex.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ChiTownPro said:


> Pull them off, clean them up, prime all sides, glue and nail them back in place.


This was the solution. 

After pulling them off, cutting new pieces and then priming ALL sides, followed by cedar galvanized anti-split nails (after I pre-drilled the nail holes to prevent cedar splitting)


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