# Proper way to install wire nuts?



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The way you did it was the right way. By doing it your way even if the nut came off the wires stay together.
I go one step further and wrap the base of the nut with elect. tape.
Over kill but why not play it safe?


----------



## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

joecaption said:


> The way you did it was the right way.


I don't necessarily disagree, but I checked the instructions on several containers of wire nuts I have, and none of them say to twist the wires.


----------



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Pre-twisting is not required for the wire nuts, unless the instructions call for it. I don't think I have every seen any that did.

Properly done, you cannot tell the difference between pre-twisted and non-twisted installations.

There should be no need for tape if the connector is installed properly. If the tape is holding it on the connector is not installed properly.


----------



## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

wouldn't twisting them in theory be *more* dangerous in a fault condition?

if the wire nut fails/becomes lose, the twisted wires are more likely to maintain the connection so you wont have any symptoms (just a bare hot, that may be getting warm due to poor connection).

whereas if the wire nut fails and they are properly used (no pre-twisting), the connection fails and you immediately know the problem

??


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Nope.
When you twist the wire nut on, it twist the wire just like you had pretwisted.


----------



## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

I've only seen directions that state "do not twist" beforehand.

The wire nut will have more of a chance of not staying on the twisted pair/s.


----------



## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

I just happened to have a box of Ideal wirenuts handy. Instructions say "pretwisting acceptable, but not required":huh:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

My biggest problem with pre twisting with linemans pliers would be the chance of knicking copper.
If you hold the wires while twisting wire nut on you should be fine


----------



## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

Not again...


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

jlmran said:


> Not again...


ground up or down??:jester:


----------



## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

jbfan said:


> ground up or down??:jester:


Sideways.


----------



## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

jbfan said:


> ground up or down??:jester:


 Ground down....but in wet locations the wire nuts need to point up.


----------



## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

Missouri Bound said:


> Ground down....but in wet locations the wire nuts need to point up.


Are you serious or jesting?


----------



## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

jlmran said:


> Are you serious or jesting?


A little bit of both. Old parking lot poles (I'm talking old) had the huge mercury vapor ballasts in the base of the pole, with an access panel. The heads had leads run down the pole and were wired at the base. condensation and any leakage would wind up in the base of the pole and sometimes just run down the wire. Any connections made with the wire nuts down would eventually get enough moisture to corrode the spring in the nuts and be impossible to remove for testing.....while the ones wired with the "nuts up" would remain dry and come right off. So for me, it's "nuts up" :thumbup:


----------



## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

Only time that I pre-twist them is with my Kleins is when I am dealing with 3 or more conductors, especially if they are #12 solids. #14's are much more forgiving with respect to insulated nut-twisting. Then again, I am not a contractor therefore the additional time does not cost me money (and that is simply personal preference y'all).

I havent been here in about a year. People are still talking about nicking the copper???! Oy!

And electrical tape on the wirenuts? Only when the fiber stands don't pass hi-pot testing. 'nuk-nuk-nuk!

Jimmy


----------



## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

really damn locations nuts up with noalox.:thumbup:

And I just tighten the wire nuts up as tight as I can a crank them with pliers after.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Strange how all of the wire nuts shown on the wires on the ideal web site show the wires twisted.
http://www.idealindustries.com/prodSearch.do?input=how to install wire nut&page=1

Anyone want to suggest why it does any harm to also add a wrap of tape around the nut to wire area instead of a bunch of stupid insulting remarks? 

One loose wire in a steel outlet box, light or fan housing is a shock hazard, why not prevent that?


----------



## rrolleston (Oct 17, 2011)

properly grounded box it will just trip the breaker if a hot wire comes off and touches the box. But when tight enough using a wire nut they should not come off. After I tighten them you have to hold the wires firmly in your hand and twist with pliers to get the wire nut off.


----------



## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

joecaption said:


> Strange how all of the wire nuts shown on the wires on the ideal web site show the wires twisted.
> 
> Anyone want to suggest why it does any harm to also add a wrap of tape around the nut to wire area instead of a bunch of stupid insulting remarks?


1. Twisted wires are attractive to look at. 

2. Where does it stop? If tape works, why not go ahead and zip on a cable-tie for "extra protection"?


----------



## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Wire nuts?

Naw....I just use Wago push on connectors.....
















NOT...........


----------



## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Topics we have over litigated on this forum:

* Do I need to twist the wires before I put on a wire nut?
* I use Ideal push in connectors these days, are they OK?
* My outlet does not work, what is wrong?
* I want to install a panel on an out building, how do I do it?
* Which is better, PEX or copper.
* How can I tell if this is asbestos?
* How big a header do I need?
* How much (will) (should) (can) it cost to do X?
* How do I build a French (french) drain?

How about a new topic, like how to get rid of the radioactive space aliens living in the attic?


----------



## jlmran (Feb 8, 2010)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Topics we have over litigated on this forum:
> 
> * Do I need to twist the wires before I put on a wire nut?
> * I use Ideal push in connectors these days, are they OK?
> ...


And the number 1 response to most questions is: "MORE INFORMATION IS NEEDED".


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Topics we have over litigated on this forum:
> 
> * Do I need to twist the wires before I put on a wire nut?
> * I use Ideal push in connectors these days, are they OK?
> ...


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

jbfan said:


> ground up or down??:jester:


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:Yeah this post definately opens up many other old posts!


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Missouri Bound said:


> A little bit of both. Old parking lot poles (I'm talking old) had the huge mercury vapor ballasts in the base of the pole, with an access panel. The heads had leads run down the pole and were wired at the base. condensation and any leakage would wind up in the base of the pole and sometimes just run down the wire. Any connections made with the wire nuts down would eventually get enough moisture to corrode the spring in the nuts and be impossible to remove for testing.....while the ones wired with the "nuts up" would remain dry and come right off. So for me, it's "nuts up" :thumbup:


 Or just tape your nuts to avoid the irritating drip :whistling2:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

BigJimmy said:


> Only time that I pre-twist them is with my Kleins is when I am dealing with 3 or more conductors, especially if they are #12 solids. #14's are much more forgiving with respect to insulated nut-twisting. Then again, I am not a contractor therefore the additional time does not cost me money (and that is simply personal preference y'all).
> 
> I havent been here in about a year. People are still talking about nicking the copper???! Oy!
> 
> ...


 Yes Im still talking about knicking wires,unless of course you feel that its ok to have somebody chewing up the wire with a set of kleins :whistling2:
And yes I still tape wirenuts on in certain situations where I feel its called for :whistling2:
Got a problem with that do ya? :whistling2:


----------



## zappa (Nov 25, 2011)

plummen said:


> Yes Im still talking about knicking wires,unless of course you feel that its ok to have somebody chewing up the wire with a set of kleins :whistling2:


plummen....I twisted my wires with the Kleins parallel to the wires straight off the end and cut off the part of the wire that was in contact with the kleins. Not because I cared about chewed up wire but it's hard to get a good twist with only 1/2" or so of bare wire.

It sounds like I went way overboard but that is what I was told to do and I was happy with the results. I guess it's ok for an anal DIY'er but it would take too long for an electrician doing it daily. I should have searched to see if this subject has been discussed before.


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

zappa said:


> plummen....I twisted my wires with the Kleins parallel to the wires straight off the end and cut off the part of the wire that was in contact with the kleins.
> 
> It sounds like I went way overboard but that is what I was told to do and I was happy with the results. I guess it's ok for an anal DIY'er but it would take too long for an electrician doing it daily. I should have searched to see if this subject has been discussed before.


Thats how I do most of mine!


----------



## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

joecaption said:


> Anyone want to suggest why it does any harm to also add a wrap of tape around the nut to wire area instead of a bunch of stupid insulting remarks?



Writing stupid insulting remarks is more fun? :laughing:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

zappa said:


> plummen....I twisted my wires with the Kleins parallel to the wires straight off the end and cut off the part of the wire that was in contact with the kleins. Not because I cared about chewed up wire but it's hard to get a good twist with only 1/2" or so of bare wire.
> 
> It sounds like I went way overboard but that is what I was told to do and I was happy with the results. I guess it's ok for an anal DIY'er but it would take too long for an electrician doing it daily. I should have searched to see if this subject has been discussed before.


 Theres know problem with the way youre doing it,the problems I normally come across are when you get bob home owner or some handyman with a pickup truck.
They read a book at menards or watch some tv show with some guy twisting things together and figure it looks easy on tv so it should be easy for them.
After they spend the day twisting wires together in their basement to the point where the inside conductor is cut/knicked almost in half then they crank a wirenut down on top of it with linemans to finish it off ,they get 15-20 boxes put in only to find their stuff doesnt work .
If I had a dollar for every service call where I spent a day chasing down a broken wire for the same reason Id have my mountain dew supply paid for for the next 6 months! :laughing:


----------



## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

I do not pre twist I just put them together and tighten the wire nut with a wire nut wrench.


----------



## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

zappa said:


> plummen....I twisted my wires with the Kleins parallel to the wires straight off the end and cut off the part of the wire that was in contact with the kleins. Not because I cared about chewed up wire but it's hard to get a good twist with only 1/2" or so of bare wire.
> 
> It sounds like I went way overboard but that is what I was told to do and I was happy with the results. I guess it's ok for an anal DIY'er but it would take too long for an electrician doing it daily. I should have searched to see if this subject has been discussed before.


 That's how I do ALL of mine.


----------



## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

My stepfather was a licensed master electrician, and I used to follow him around when he would do stuff. He always twisted with his Kleins, put a wire nut on, and wrapped the base with electrical tape. 

That's just how HE did it, I usually don't use the electrical tape but I do pre twist!


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Strange how all of the wire nuts shown on the wires on the ideal web site show the wires twisted.
> http://www.idealindustries.com/prodSearch.do?input=how to install wire nut&page=1
> 
> Anyone want to suggest why it does any harm to also add a wrap of tape around the nut to wire area instead of a bunch of stupid insulting remarks?
> ...


Just always looked amateurish. Not sure what magical power was going to unscrew a properly installs wire nut. But you know what they say about opinions. In the end you need to be confident in your work and if taping a wirenut does for you who am I to argue.


----------



## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

I always "pre-twist". Have you ever pulled wired out of the box just to have one of them come out of the wirenut? Better yet, take a wirenut off the neutral splice just to have them all come apart.


----------



## Jay 78 (Mar 2, 2011)

dougp23 said:


> He always twisted with his Kleins


Like Tom Cruise in Risky Business?


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

Jay 78 said:


> Like Tom Cruise in Risky Business?


Why is that risky?


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Mikenra said:


> Just always looked amateurish. Not sure what magical power was going to unscrew a properly installs wire nut. But you know what they say about opinions. In the end you need to be confident in your work and if taping a wirenut does for you who am I to argue.


 Amateurish,now thats funny! :laughing:
Apparently you have worked around much shaking/rattling equipment with bad mounts that customer wont fix that rattles everything loose,or maintenance guys who like to take things apart just because its there. :whistling2:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

jcrack_corn said:


> wouldn't twisting them in theory be *more* dangerous in a fault condition?
> 
> if the wire nut fails/becomes lose, the twisted wires are more likely to maintain the connection so you wont have any symptoms (just a bare hot, that may be getting warm due to poor connection).
> 
> ...


Sorry, but this is an absurd proposal. 
Like has been said, a PROPERLY installed wire nut will have the conductors looking the same as if they were pre-twisted.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

ktkelly said:


> I've only seen directions that state "do not twist" beforehand.
> 
> The wire nut will have more of a chance of not staying on the twisted pair/s.


Then you are the only one. I have NEVER seen one that flat out says not to twist.
The nut will be JUST as secure of they are twisted or not.


----------



## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Wow, people actually just put two wires next to each other, and slap a wire nut on them? Call me crazy, but that seems like a recipe for problems down the road.

I took a basic electrical adult education class years ago offered by the county, given by an electrician. The instructor said to always pretwist (I just use needle nose pliers) tightly, cut off the excess at the tip/end, and THEN wire nut. I'd like to think my electrical connections will stay together without the wire nuts. When I removed many receptacles in my current house and replaced them, there were several wires that just "popped out" when I pulled the wire nut out of the box. Yes, things generally shouldn't move, but I'd much rather spend the extra time making everything secure, than having to worry about trying to trace down a short/faulty connection somewhere in the circuit.

Bottom line, perhaps I'm neurotic about some details (ok, I know I am), but pre-twisting is a must if you ask me. Then again, speed wiring receptacles and all other such things to save a little time are standard these days as well..


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

joecaption said:


> Anyone want to suggest why it does any harm to also add a wrap of tape around the nut to wire area instead of a bunch of stupid insulting remarks?
> 
> One loose wire in a steel outlet box, light or fan housing is a shock hazard, why not prevent that?


Because it WILL NOT prevent that. It will only leave the wire nut hanging in place so it can melt away like I have seen several times.

Taping is amateurish, and also a bit "old-timerish". It only leaves a sticky mess and serves NO PURPOSE to a properly installed wire nut. 

Tape if you want, but take comfort in the fact that it is there to make YOU feel good, NOTHING else.


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## psilva8 (Jan 12, 2012)

So the general consensus here is, pre-twist vs. no twist doesn't matter because your will effectively twist the wires together with a properly installed wire nut. 

Further, I agree with Speedy. Nothing worse than having to remove electrical tape just to get at a wire nut. Serves no purpose at all.


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

If the wirenut is cranked down solidly a good wrap of super 33 will keep it from being vibrated loose in certain situations,if a wirenut is not twisted on the tape is not meant to hold it there.
And yes taping the wirenuts on motors is very common in certain situations if you ever do any work in real world industrial areas where maintenance guys have a tendency to leave bolts/screws out of covers on motors or leave them completely off it makes a differance.
Or youre working in an area where theres lots of moisture,where again covers get left without gaskets or bolts in them and some cleaning guy comes along with a 1" hose and proceeds to wash area down with 500 gallons of water youll be glad those wirenuts were wrapped with good tape.
yes these things do happen in the real world of service work,because things arent always new construction guys! :whistling2::laughing:


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> Amateurish,now thats funny! :laughing:
> Apparently you have worked around much shaking/rattling equipment with bad mounts that customer wont fix that rattles everything loose,or maintenance guys who like to take things apart just because its there. :whistling2:


So you've opened boxes and found wire nuts just laying in the box the rattled off a splice?


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

Plummen I'm just overjoyed you see so much to laugh about in this thread. Must be lonely being the only one working in the real world!


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes Ive found plenty of loose wire nuts on machinery in the last 30 plus years,Ive also found plenty of pecker heads on motors without gaskets that were soaked with water with shorted wires in them .
Ive also found pecker heads on motors in areas filled with grain/soy bean dust that Id be willing to bet would make a colorfull boom had the nuts not been sealed with tape. :whistling2:


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> If the wirenut is cranked down solidly a good wrap of super 33 will keep it from being vibrated loose in certain situations,if a wirenut is not twisted on the tape is not meant to hold it there.
> And yes taping the wirenuts on motors is very common in certain situations if you ever do any work in real world industrial areas where maintenance guys have a tendency to leave bolts/screws out of covers on motors or leave them completely off it makes a differance.
> Or youre working in an area where theres lots of moisture,where again covers get left without gaskets or bolts in them and some cleaning guy comes along with a 1" hose and proceeds to wash area down with 500 gallons of water youll be glad those wirenuts were wrapped with good tape.
> yes these things do happen in the real world of service work,because things arent always new construction guys! :whistling2::laughing:


That 33 really is super to seal a wire nut off from 500 gallons of water.


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Mikenra said:


> Plummen I'm just overjoyed you see so much to laugh about in this thread. Must be lonely being the only one working in the real world!


Well apparently many posting on here have never been beyond a new construction site
There are smiley faces better? :whistling2:


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> Yes Ive found plenty of loose wire nuts on machinery in the last 30 plus years,Ive also found plenty of pecker heads on motors without gaskets that were soaked with water with shorted wires in them .
> Ive also found pecker heads on motors in areas filled with grain/soy bean dust that Id be willing to bet would make a colorfull boom had the nuts not been sealed with tape. :whistling2:


That was wasn't actually the question but like I said to each their own.


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> Well apparently many posting on here have never been beyond a new construction site
> There are smiley faces better? :whistling2:


Less obnoxious I suppose lol


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

plummen said:


> If the wirenut is cranked down solidly a good wrap of super 33 will keep it from being vibrated loose in certain situations,


Wrong. Just plain wrong. 
If the wire nut is installed properly it will stay there. Period. 






plummen said:


> Or youre working in an area where theres lots of moisture,where again covers get left without gaskets or bolts in them and some cleaning guy comes along with a 1" hose and proceeds to wash area down with 500 gallons of water youll be glad those wirenuts were wrapped with good tape.


This is just a joke. The tape will actually hold the water in. I've seen it a thousand times. Remove tape, wire nut falls off in your hand with a small pile of brown dust, or wet brown sludge.
And if a box or enclosure is "left open" and some clod comes around with a wash down and doesn't care I say let Darwin do his thing.


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Mikenra said:


> That 33 really is super to seal a wire nut off from 500 gallons of water.


 Well feel free to install a meter on one of those clean up guys hoses as they walk through a plant flooding everything and tell me how many gallons they actually use.
And while youre at it walk through the typical 5 plus year old plant and tell me how many unsealed boxes you can count.
Ive wired more packing plants/soy bean processing plants/steel foundrys ....... then I really want to try and remember,in my experiance the maintenance guys who work in them tend to have the same mentallity once we leave. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> Wrong. Just plain wrong.
> If the wire nut is installed properly it will stay there. Period.
> 
> This is just a joke. The tape will actually hold the water in. I've seen it a thousand times. Remove tape, wire nut falls off in your hand with a small pile of brown dust, or wet brown sludge.
> And if a box or enclosure is "left open" and some clod comes around with a wash down and doesn't care I say let Darwin do his thing.


Thank You Thank You Thank You


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Wrong. Just plain wrong.
> If the wire nut is installed properly it will stay there. Period.
> 
> 
> ...


 Somebody needs a class on taping,or maybe they should quit using that 35 cents a roll tape


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> Well feel free to install a meter on one of those clean up guys hoses as they walk through a plant flooding everything and tell me how many gallons they actually use.
> And while youre at it walk through the typical 5 plus year old plant and tell me how many unsealed boxes you can count.
> Ive wired more packing plants/soy bean processing plants/steel foundrys ....... then I really want to try and remember,in my experiance the maintenance guys who work in them tend to have the same mentallity once we leave. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


Where would one find one of these strange "plants" you speak of on the "real world". 

I've been been in thousands of plants and like you 1- I've NEVER opened a box to find a wire it laying there that unscrewed itself from its splice and 2- never saw a swimming box saved but a miraculous turn of super 33 the underwater electrical tape. 
I disagree with you, sorry. I agree with you far more than I disagree. This is one of the disagrees. I'd fake a laugh but too much trouble on the iPhone


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

plummen said:


> Somebody needs a class on taping,or maybe they should quit using that 35 cents a roll tape


So what do you do to prevent the water from getting in between the conductors? Scotchcoat? Liquid tape? :whistling2:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

When I get done doing todays project Ill take a couple of wires and wirenut them together and wrap them with tape then Ill toss them in a bucket of water and leave them for a week .
Ill post before and after pictures on here so we can all compare the results


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Mikenra said:


> Where would one find one of these strange "plants" you speak of on the "real world".
> 
> I've been been in thousands of plants and like you 1- I've NEVER opened a box to find a wire it laying there that unscrewed itself from its splice and 2- never saw a swimming box saved but a miraculous turn of super 33 the underwater electrical tape.
> I disagree with you, sorry. I agree with you far more than I disagree. This is one of the disagrees. I'd fake a laugh but too much trouble on the iPhone


 Ive got plants like that all over omaha Ive dealt with over the years,packing plants tend to be worst for water.
steel casting plants are worst for sand/dust


----------



## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

plummen said:


> Well apparently many posting on here have never been beyond a new construction site


I live in Canton Ohio where we have two of the large steel makers,which one of them is considered the finest in the world.
I am a crane operator by craft and have been in the field for 29 years,28 of them I spent in the seat watching what is going on around me while we serviced these mills and I can relate to what he is saying.
Consider a caster or bloom conditioning line there are literally 100's upon 100's of motors that are constanly being worked on and you always have that one guy that say's "Oh that's good enough".
The time I have spent watching people over the years, you get a feel for who cares about their craft and those who could give two ****s about it.


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> When I get done doing todays project Ill take a couple of wires and wirenut them together and wrap them with tape then Ill toss them in a bucket of water and leave them for a week .
> Ill post before and after pictures on here so we can all compare the results


No you'll make some splices, put them in a box in a typical hot plant for a few years, douse them, and post the pics.


----------



## Mikenra (Jan 8, 2012)

plummen said:


> Ive got plants like that all over omaha Ive dealt with over the years,packing plants tend to be worst for water.
> steel casting plants are worst for sand/dust


Funnest ones I've done jobs in are aluminum can recycling plants. There I want to wrap myself in Super 33


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

And now to pick our next dead horse to beat!!!

Ground up or down? Spit or swollow? Turn signals, optional or not? Licensed required or not?

Anything else???:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Jay 78 (Mar 2, 2011)




----------

