# Energy monitoring



## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

Missouri Bound said:


> No so much individual circuits but total amperage across the panel.


These devices give a lot of detail of where in the house the usage is happening, but I infer that’s not what you’re after. If you just want more detail on your total electrical consumption have you confirmed that your utility doesn’t make that available? In lots of locations the consumption data is available online by the hour.

Chris


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Yep, it certainly is there...by the hour, week, month.
But that doesn't tell me what my energy "offenders" are.....just when it happens.
Having an electric home there are a lot of places to look. 
I have installed energy management systems in my previous career but that isn't what I want to do in my home.
I just want to be aware of what does what and when it does it. Perhaps I can alter behavior to lower my bill or even get rid of the energy hogs by updating equipment.
Anyway, thanks for your comment.


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

Your thread prompted me to do a bit of research, because I wouldn’t mind having something like this for our all-electric house.

I recall seeing the system that is now marketed as “Sense” on This Old House a few years ago. At the time they talked about how it would take time for their algorithms to be developed to allow more and more individual loads to be identified. That is, it analyses the waveform of the electrical usage and can tell when, for example, a toaster or a dishwasher is being used. I was curious to see how it has evolved. It seems they still have a way to go. The biggest electrical user in our all-electric house is (I assume) our heat pump, but I read this on the website:
_*“A typical heat pump has three key components that consume energy: a motor that runs the compressor, a motor that drives a blower fan, and a heating element. These devices may be detected individually or together, and Sense is most likely detecting a compressor motor when there has only been partial detection of a heat pump. Sense is unlikely to detect inverter or variable-speed heat pumps.*_”

I couldn’t see the selling feature of “Engage” by Efergy. It doesn’t appear to do anything to identify individual loads in the home. Other than being able to see instantaneous whole house usage, it seems that most of what it provides you could get from your electric utility data. Maybe I’m missing something.

TED seems to do the same as “Engage” unless more equipment is purchased. The optional “Spyders” are a module with eight wired current transformers (CT) that measure the current flow in eight circuits. For dedicated loads with their own breakers that would give explicit usage. Probably one spyder would do the eight biggest loads in most houses that account for the vast majority of the power usage.

I don’t know what other systems are available. If I had to choose between these three based on the info that I had now I wouldn’t consider “Engage”. “Sense” is the coolest, but it might not reliably identify the loads. I like TED, except to get explicit measurement of eight circuits I’d have to add a bunch of wires to my (now) nice and neat circuit breaker panel. Oh, and I’d have to buy two of the “spyders”, because some of the biggest loads in the house are in a subpanel.

Chris


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I ten to agree with you about Sense. If I understand correctly it does "learn" the longer it is in use.
I also saw that on This Old House. 
Usually after Rich Trethewey shows the boiler room I get distracted.
It makes me want to have hot water heat.
But that aside, I'll keep reviewing my options.


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

I’m sure that one of the reasons that we retrofitted in-floor hydronic heat to our house during the renovation was the years of listening the Rich Trethewey say how great it was.
*It is.*

Chris


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

The first house I owned had baseboard hot water heat. I knew absolutely nothing about it.
The first night we slept there we heard a ticking noise which was the copper expanding as the heat turned on.
That was the most comfortable heat, in my opinion.
But it had two zones, one for the lower level and one for the upstairs addition, simple loop piping arrangement.
The house had a crawl space so the pipes under the house also had fins to keep the floors a bit warmer.
Normal Illinois winters were fine.....the -20 nights....not so much.
I would consider hot water heat again, but the added expense for air conditioning is a huge consideration.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

I installed an Eyedro system and am very happy with the results.
They have many options and are reasonably priced. I have the WiFi version with only two sensors. You can eventually figure out what each appliance is using by monitoring the "Live Demand" screen over time. 








Electricity Monitors for Home and Business


Making electricity use easy to understand. Electricity monitors for home and business, providing simple solutions for monitoring electricity in real-time.




eyedro.com


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## quatsch (Feb 4, 2021)

It seems you have a
money not spent but increased inconvenience/discomfort
tradeoff, like if all your stuff only turns on when rates are low.

Our GaCo tells use we use 20% more than neigborhood similar houses but we're not going to walk around a house at 65F.
Same with the water usage (and we don't have a leak, I check at the meter occasionally).


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks for the comments.
My goal is to pinpoint where and if I can make adjustments to lower my electric bill. Not too long ago when we needed to replace light bulbs I went to LED's in our kitchen and dining room area.
That made a big difference since those are the two areas where lights are on several hours a day. A few years back we also replaced our HVAC unit and that too shaved some off of our summer cooling expenses. But I am not about to sacrifice comfort for a few bucks.
My brother in law decided to keep the house at 65° in the winter. He sits around the house with a sweatshirt on. That's not for me.
69° seems to be the comfortable temperature for us in the winter and 73° in the summer.
We do not fiddle with the thermostat ever. 
I will however just a different setting on the electric dryer, be mindful of what appliances get used for what and that's it.
I am more curious as to what the energy hogs are than changing my lifestyle. Any changes I can make without making sacrifices I will gladly do.
I am a pragmatist, not a masochist.


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## quatsch (Feb 4, 2021)

Our water company is telling us now that 55 gallons per person per day is normal. The civil engineering handbooks very likely say 100.
I find now that this 55 can be called a "pious fraud."


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

quatsch said:


> Our GaCo tells use we use 20% more than neigborhood similar houses but we're not going to walk around a house at 65F.


It may not be that your neighbours are walking around their houses at 65F, but rather their houses are using less energy to maintain the same temperature.

Based on conversations with neighbours we keep our house warmer than most, but the things that we’ve done to make our house use energy more efficiently are apparent from this graphic from our utility (these are all-electric houses, except for the wood stoves used by many of our neighbours (but not us, this winter)).

Chris


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## quatsch (Feb 4, 2021)

Chris616 said:


> It may not be that your neighbours are walking around their houses at 65F, but rather their houses are using less energy to maintain the same temperature.
> 
> Based on conversations with neighbours we keep our house warmer than most, but the things that we’ve done to make our house use energy more efficiently are apparent from this graphic from our utility (these are all-electric houses, except for the wood stoves used by many of our neighbours (but not us, this winter)).
> 
> ...


The average house takes 6 BTU/(sfxhdd), a tight house takes 2 and we're at maybe 12 or 14. 
We had new windows put in, a prog thermostat, and I put another layer of insulation in the attics, but our walls are original from '64 and the furnace is 82% efficient.
We're staying here another 12 years if we're lucky so I don't think it makes economic sense to do more.

We get a similar graphic but they should post Heading Degree Days for a meaningful yearly comparison. I wrote them about that and they, in effect, told me to go to a hot place.


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