# NM-12 cables in crawl space and NEC code



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Install a running board and staple the wires to that.


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

Install the running board diagonally? 
I won't want to throw away the wires to install again since they won't be long enough to run perpendicular to the joists.

1/4" thick 4x1 plywood would serve well as a running board?


The section where the wires run along the joist--they are ok to be stapled on the bottom of the joist? On the side of the joist is ok also?


What about some older wires installed pre-2008 NEC? They need to be moved out also?


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

You can go at any angle you want, and use any thickness board you want, they just can't be stapled perpendicular to the bottom of the joist...


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

Thx.


How about the last couple of inches/feet of the wire--if the spot where it goes into the wall above is not exactly along the running board/joist?


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

joemc3 said:


> Thx.
> 
> 
> How about the last couple of inches/feet of the wire--if the spot where it goes into the wall is not exactly along the running board/joist?


Its a crawl space, I wouldn't worry too much, it's much better than what it was.


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

Thx. It's only 2' height crawl space and dirt all over everywhere. Adult size shirts are close to 2' long. 

I don't see anyone motivated to crawl down there and hang clothes right above the dirt... .

Honestly, I feel the code should only apply to crawl space that has > 2' height or w/ concrete crawl space floor.


BTW, some older wires are stapled on the side of the support beam--acceptable?


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

joemc3 said:


> Honestly, I feel the code should only apply to crawl space that has > 2' height or w/ concrete crawl space floor.


I concur. 



joemc3 said:


> BTW, some older wires are stapled on the side of the support beam--acceptable?



You are allowed to run parallel on the bottom or sides of joists, or beams.


----------



## UnclePhil (Mar 4, 2014)

joemc3 said:


> Thx. It's only 2' height crawl space and dirt all over everywhere. Adult size shirts are close to 2' long.
> 
> I don't see anyone motivated to crawl down there and hang clothes right above the dirt... .
> 
> ...


There are exceptions where no support is needed if you have to fish or snake... 
goes for conduit to.....

Looks to me like it had to be fished....:thumbsup:


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

Gas line issue:

I'm seeing a gas pipe installed along and right next but slightly below the bottom of a joist right below the kitchen area. It could be blocking the install of the running board in one section. 


Any suggestion? Don't know how to solve this problem. This is an old gas line and I don't think I want to move it around.


I'll post a photo once I get down there again.


----------



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

I would use 1x3 furring strips. 1/4 plywood will be a pain to staple to.


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> I would use 1x3 furring strips. 1/4 plywood will be a pain to staple to.


I tend to use stack its in these scenarios...


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

There's only about 3/4"-1" vertical gap between the joist and the gas line, so I can only use 1/2" max thickness plywood.

I cannot use 1" thick boards as the gas line would be in the way. 


I also need to avoid areas where the water pipes are. Don't want to put a running board too close and make it a pain when it's time to fix plumbing issue later on... .


The 1/2" thick plywood turned out to be double the cost of the furring strips/other common boards/redwood boards (sigh).


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

A question about when running the wires along the floor joist -- 


I'm just thinking if I staple the cables to bottom of floor joists when running along them, the 4x4 wood beams are in the way every 6', so I'd have to have the wires going around each beam. 


It doesn't sound good does it? If later I'll need to adjust the beam positions, the cables would be in the way. True?


So should the cables be stapled on the side of the joist instead when running the cables along it?


Thx.


----------



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The beams are providing structural support. Why do you think they might need to be moved?


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

Why make this so difficult? Just nail a 2x6 to the bottom of the joist and secure the cables to that... Now we have 50 different versions of the same job...


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Leave it as is. Those sections hanging down, I would try to get them up a little tighter against the beams. That way if someone is in the Crawlspace, they do not get caught up in them.

Now if you want to make it cleaner, I would do the Furring strips against the joists. Just keep in mind that if the joists move, they can cause that furring board to move also, so do not attach the cables so tight, that there is not any play in them.

Get a palm nailer, or use a cordless driver to screw the boards to the joists, then reattach the Romex back to it.


----------



## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Leave it as is. Those sections hanging down, I would try to get them up a little tighter against the beams. That way if someone is in the Crawlspace, they do not get caught up in them.
> 
> Now if you want to make it cleaner, I would do the Furring strips against the joists. Just keep in mind that if the joists move, they can cause that furring board to move also, so do not attach the cables so tight, that there is not any play in them.
> 
> Get a palm nailer, or use a cordless driver to screw the boards to the joists, then reattach the Romex back to it.


Greg, he has an obvious code violation, the only fix is to install a running board.


----------



## joemc3 (Feb 24, 2013)

I get it where wires are running across the floor joists--add running boards under joists and staple wires on that.




> The beams are providing structural support. Why do you think they might need to be moved?


Some of the wood beams aren't completely lined up w/ the supporting concrete below. Perhaps due to shifting over the years.

Have no experience in how to fix this--move the beams, or move the concrete below?


So I want to leave some room for those spots to be fixed (where the joist meets the beam) when the wires are running 'along' the joists.


Would stapling the wires on the side of the joists take care of getting around these spots?

If the fix to line up the beams to the concrete is simply to move the concrete instead of the beams, then perhaps it's ok for the wires to go around the beams.


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Fix the foundation problems, then worry about fixing the hanging Romex. It is just that you do not want it hanging, so if someone does have to go in there, you do not want them getting caught up on it.


----------

