# Payne Furnance PG9MAA problem



## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

I have a Payne PG9MAA 048100 furnace. Problem, when set higher temperature, fan kicks in, notice led flashing code 12, Fan runs 90 seconds, but gas burner will not kick in, then code 13. I have replace filter, 3M and also regular one, check all return air and not plug up. I run the fan only on thermostat, it works, after all these steps, maybe occassional started and get some heat, then shut off again. I check temperature sensor in the furnace and burner area, can't tell if they are bad. Now I have no heat again...
Any one can help me with this problem?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

12 means that power was turned on while the thermostat was calling for heat. The blower will run for 90 seconds before beginning the ignition sequence. Don't remember what 13 is, but the panel will have the legend on it.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

http://www.gogeisel.com/geiselonline/support/Payne/PG9M_Gas_Furnace.pdf

very bottom. 13 is Limit Switch Lockout.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

*Payne Furnace*

Thank you. Try resolving this problem, how to take care of this Limit Switch Lock out? What do I do to resolve this problem I described. I maybe wrong on Code 13 or it should be code 31?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

31 is a board failure as I recall. If its a 13, then you need a new limit switch. And stop using those 3M pleated air filters, as your return is too small for them to be used.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

according to that Payne pdf for the PG9MAA, 31 is a pressure switch not closing.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> according to that Payne pdf for the PG9MAA, 31 is a pressure switch not closing.


Its tough getting old somedays. LOL


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Thank you to both of you helping out. Honestly, I only know it blink once and then 3 continuous blinks, so it could be 13 or 31. If 13, I have checked all vents and clear everything I could. So I assume it should be 31. Yes. I use lighter filter now but same problem. Now, should I just replace pressure switch? how can I test is pressure is bad? BTW, where is limit switch?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The high limit is not designed to be an operating limit. They are not made to endure a lot of opening and closing. So it is probably stuck open, and needs replaced, order a new one and install it.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Hello, I check the pressure switch, by pass the two wires, when I turn the unit on, fan runs 90 seconds, inducer motor kicks in but burner not working. I also try allow the fan runs and then by pass (by connecting both wires) and no flame either. I assume if pressure switch broken, direct by pass will allow the burner to start? Or am I wrong? Sorry to bother you guys again. 

Situation this morning, I set a temperature at 68 for 6am, room temperature only at 63. furnace blow air a couple times, until 7:45am, burner kicked in, but only raise temperature to 65 and shut down. 
This happens the last couple days as well, take a long while for buner to kick in and then only raise temperature by a couple degrees. Should this be only the pressure switch problem or more?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Probably not the pressure switch itself.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Have you tried cleaning flame sensor?

Watch video and others in YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I86joWL66aE

When inducer fan starts, follow its tubing to pressure switch. Check tubing for tightness and if any splits formed at ends. These can be cut off, length permitting.

The furnace troubleshooting chart in middle of this page may help:

http://www.arnoldservice.com/Troubleshooting_Heating_Problems.htm


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Thank you guys...I just replace pressure switch anyway since I bought it, turn on the power, burner kicks in this time, but again, it shut off after it warmed the house up by about 3 degrees. I will check the sensor now..


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

one more thing, I unplug the lower tube of Pressure Switch, from the furnace, water comes out. SHould there be water?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

No.

Sounds like the trap is dirty and needs cleaned out. Could also be the drain is running slow.


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

Iagree with beenthere should not be water at that tube site check drain and exhaust pipe seen some have belly in it and hold water?????


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

This is getting more fun now...ok I just took out the flame sensor, the whole stick is clean like brand new stell except only couple darker spots, I sand it and clean it. I also took out Ignitor, looks very good. no crack. I put the everything back, power up...90 second blowing, almost two minutes before ignitor started and flame started. This time fires up about 10 minutes before it shut off. Now I am heading down to clean the drain...will keep you posted...many thanks to you all.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

ok.. I just took my hot shower and the heater still running and blowing heat..haha. Thank you for all your helps. I took out the condensate box, use a hose blow into one side and all the dirts came out..and I was dumb enough to face it it direct to make sure dirt comes out..got my myself with those dirty water.
I put the box back and make sure otehr tubes drains out as will...fire the furnace up...here you go, after my hot shower, it is still running and temperature is now at 67. Wonderful...and appreciate all your helps... After all this, I think the pressure switch maybe fine, it is the drain that plug up, prevent it from running for long.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

*Payne Furnace PG9maa*

New problem: furnace acting up again, run for a few days. Stop running when thermostate calls for heat. Check furnace find code 21. Where do I go for there. For now I can simply turn the power switch off and on at the furnace and restart the furnace. Thanks.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

You should have a legend on the furnace (often on the inside of the door) that will tell you what the led fault codes are.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

No need for all that. Scroll all the way down for legend. You need a service tech from the company you bought this furnace from if it's still under warranty via said company. If not anyone will do. 

http://www.gogeisel.com/geiselonline/support/Payne/PG9M_Gas_Furnace.pdf


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

I read it, it is gas heating lockout. control will not auto reset . Check for stuck gas valve relay, or miswired to gas valve circuit. 
I checked the wiring, touch them and feel thighten just fine. But I can not if it is miswired to gas valve circuit and how could this happens? 
I will not know how to check stuck valve and do not understand why it can happen.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Which is why it states to call a dealer (service tech) if you get a flash code 21 or even 12 if you by chance are reading the code backwards. It's most likely a control board issue and not something that can just be fixed.

Some boards will give you a flash code that states the board is bad. Your's says to call a technciian who I'm pretty sure will tell you it's the board and of course he'll be the one who can get the replacement board from Payne. You can't so again, why it states to call a dealer/tech. 

I could be wrong as anything is possible but I'm putting my money on the board.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Thank you Doc Holliday. I assume not safe to do it myself?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

peng teo said:


> Thank you Doc Holliday. I assume not safe to do it myself?


 
Eh, I wouldn't say it's not safe but you have to be able to get ahold of the part, the replacement and if you install it I'm not certain the warranty will be any good as I think it has to be through a contractor who buys the board from the supply house/dealer versus you on Amazon or Ebay.

Call a few hvac contractors around and tell them your situation and ask if their service fee can go towards the purchase and installation of the board. Most contractors will wave the initial diagnostic/service fee if they do the work and then you'll have at least a one year warranty.

Don' be too pushy to whomever you talk to, us hvac guys don't like being told what to do.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Carrier is the parent company of Payne, same control boards used from one to the other.




larger image
*Carrier Circuit Board Kit 325878-751*

*$261.00*

Carrier circuit board kit P/N 325878-751
This main control board kit replaces part numbers: HK42FZ004, HK42FZ007, HK42FZ008, HK42FZ009, HK42FZ011, HK42FZ016
The main board in this kit is P/N HK42FZ013. If you are replacing a circuit board with one of the above part numbers you will need this kit. It contains necessary wiring harness for changes along with instructions.
Some models this board is used in begin with: 340MAV, 345MAV, 350MAV, 351DA, 373LAV, 376CAV, 383KAV, 393AAV, 395CAV, 480BAV, 481BAV, 490AAV, 58MCA, 58MSA, 58MXA, 58PAV, 58RAV, 58WAV, 58YAV, 58ZAV, GB1AAV, GB3AAV, PG8DAA, PG8UAA, _*PG9MAA.*_

http://shortyshvac.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=39


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

ok. I do not think I read the code wrong this time. It has 2 blinks and short pause and one blink, then long pause before the 2 blinks again. I understand your suggestion. The last technician never even checked the drains but told me to replace bunch of stuff, luckily you guys solved the problem. Thank you.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

peng teo said:


> Thank you Doc Holliday. I assume not safe to do it myself?


 
You could, it's actually very easy. Again, just the warranty may be an issue. You can call the company in that link I posted and ask about the warranty and if they are willing to warranty it then I'm sure everyone on here will help you through it. :thumbsup:


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Hello, The technician just left. He ran the system a few times, all running just fine. He tested the circuit board, check voltage of gas valve wires and connection as well. He check the vent, he clean the sensor rod, He said nothing is wrong and he did not recommend replacing the circuit board or gas valve control switch. 
This afternoon, just before he came, the furnace burner did not start after blower circle was completed when thermostate called for heat. The house was also out of heat the whole night, until I reset the switch a couple times early in the morning. Well, I have to wait and see if the problem occurs again.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

It always seems to work right when we're at the home. I went one to one today like that. The homeowner had friends house sitting. I asked what the problem was, lady says the heat doesn't work. 

I go to the thermostat and it's set at 61 degrees, on cool setting. 


Good luck with your now deceased problem, hope it lasts.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Haha..yes it seems like when you guys show up and the problem go away.
It is true...guess what, after he left, the heat reached 65 as set on the thermostate. It stopped. When the room temperature dropped to 62 and I saw thermostate calling for heat -- the HEAT blinking sign. Furnance complete quiet. Well, I called the technician (he said I can call him if it is not working again). He won't believe it. But he asked me to unplug the thermostate and cross wire red and white and see what happen. The moment I took the panel off, the furnance kicked in. But I waited and waited no heat, I crossed red and white wires and hold it as instructed...nothing happened. He suggest I replace the thermostate and see what happen next. Anyway I put everything back, two hours later, heat came on. So now at least I have heat until tomorrow morning and my wife won't kick me out to the garage. I will get a new thermostate at HD to replace it.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

hey Doc
Last week a customer called me in because she had turned her round mercury thermostat over as far as it would go but the furnace wouldn't come on and she'd been without heat all day. Yeah I just feel great billing someone for turning a thermostat all the way off instead of on.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

how said:


> hey Doc
> Last week a customer called me in because she had turned her round mercury thermostat over as far as it would go but the furnace wouldn't come on and she'd been without heat all day. Yeah I just feel great billing someone for turning a thermostat all the way off instead of on.


 
You gotta do what you gotta do to survive. 

For their money's worth I checked all safeties, sanded the flame sensor, cycled the system five times on control board and at the stat and left them with heat. I spent a good forty five minutes there making certain it would come on with each call without mishap. We'll see if I get a call back.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

peng teo said:


> Haha..yes it seems like when you guys show up and the problem go away.
> It is true...guess what, after he left, the heat reached 65 as set on the thermostate. It stopped. When the room temperature dropped to 62 and I saw thermostate calling for heat -- the HEAT blinking sign. Furnance complete quiet. Well, I called the technician (he said I can call him if it is not working again). He won't believe it. But he asked me to unplug the thermostate and cross wire red and white and see what happen. The moment I took the panel off, the furnance kicked in. But I waited and waited no heat, I crossed red and white wires and hold it as instructed...nothing happened. He suggest I replace the thermostate and see what happen next. Anyway I put everything back, two hours later, heat came on. So now at least I have heat until tomorrow morning and my wife won't kick me out to the garage. I will get a new thermostate at HD to replace it.


:laughing: It never fails. 

Turn the stat to off and jump (or cross as he put it) the W and the R terminal in the furnace at the control board. If heat works normaly when jumping in the furnace, if it comes on each time you jump those wires, then the stat very well could be the problem. 

Remember when doing this that the furnace door switch needs to be pushed in to allow power to the control board so jump the terminals with the door switch off and once connected W to R push the door switch in so the unit fires up, if it will. Jumping with power to the board could cause a fuse to blow if you touch metal with your jumper wire so be careful.

So if that works and the furnace starts up then release the door switch to kill power. This way you cut the entire furnace off all at once. If you simply remove the wire witht he door swithc closed ( giving power to the furnace) then the heat will cut off (no flames) but the blower will remain on for a minute or 90 seconds after the flames cut off. This is what it is supposed to do but then you have to wait that 90 seconds to fure it up again. 

Whatever you're comfortable with doing in other words.


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## peng teo (Oct 24, 2011)

Doc, yes the technician spent a great amount of time running the system. He -- Kurt had done a great work and double check everything he could. Will see if new thermostate will fix the problem. I think this wasn't a easy money you guys make considering the amount of time you spent in such cold weather go from door to door to fix the problem keeping your customer's house warm. Anyway, I greatly appreciate your help here and stay warm and drive safe and a great 2012. :thumbup:


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