# Tree Removal and Insurance



## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

- had a soft spot in the roof under/near the chimney and was considering replacing roof to get this fixed right.

- had no access to see what was going on underneath

- made decision to move forward with roof replacement 

- had a leak and realized a different flat region of the roof was pitched the wrong way, causing a leak and drywall ceiling damage. Removed wet insulation, and had roofer add to the roof to assure it will shed water correctly, which it is now doing.

- roofer has purchased copper for standing seam roof and still needs to remove gutters and replace facia behind it to get the job done right.

- while many have expressed love for this male Ginko tree that doesn’t stink up the joint the way a female one does, many others have stated that this tree simply needs to go. It has raised the addition foundation to the point that I can see the crown molding inside bent and pitched the wrong way, and there are cracks in the block wall. The retaining wall block visible on the neighbor’s side of the fence looks like a mess. The fence around the tree is already planned to be replaced, hopefully in the next few weeks (so it matches the rest of the fencing). Access is tight.

- with the above, and thinking about how branches cut or broken will risk damaging the new copper roof, and seeing how the raised foundation has already started to cause me problems, I’ve decided to get estimates to get the tree removed ASAP. It’s a big beautiful carbon sink that I don’t really want to remove, but I understand it won’t live forever, so I should seriously consider removing it.


We’ve only owned this house
I got a quote from the least expensive tree guy I’ve ever heard of, and the quote was $9700, and honestly I think I’ve heard people toss out the following numbers in conversation, $15,000+ (I’ll stop there.)

I need to decide whether to move forward. The tree appears very healthy, and I just talked to a junior person at my State Farm office. There was apparently no provision for any assistance with this type of situation. The financial smart decision is perhaps to let the tree fall on a house, which of course nobody ever wants to have happen. My agent has been out to the house in person, and gave me a policy with a large 1% deductible. This house is more than twice as expensive as any house I’ve ever purchased before, so 1% is large, not quite as expensive as the tree removal though. So I guess that’s one way to think about it. If it would still cost me many thousands of dollars, even if the tree fell on the house, then maybe the few thousand extra to remove the tree is a nice piece of mind and will maybe help eliminate future expenses. 

I assume that there will be future costs even as the roots rot though. The addition will probably start slowly sinking back to its former height over a decade or so, resulting in cracks and things inside. 

Anyway, the cost of removing the tree is more expensive than the copper roof. So it’s not like spending the money for the tree removal is justified by the cost of protecting the roof. I could buy the roof all over again in a few years and still have the beautiful tree. 

It’s not an obviously easy decision, but one thing is VERY clear. That tree shouldn’t have ever been planted there, and should have ever been let grow to this size. So if I don’t take it down now, I’m a contributor to the bad decision making. 

Should insurance pitch in for this type of tree removal? 

Should I change my policy deductible for fear of what could be? 

Should I contact an arborist for their opinion? How much would THAT cost me?

Should I rush into this decision before the copper standing seem roof is installed? 

Should I start a go fund me page to take the tree down or to save the tree and pay for my maintenance related to it?  LOL


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

I had a tree fall on my house and while the insurance paid the cost with no problems, there was a fair amount of aggravation involved in getting contractors to provide estimates and do the work. I've since paid to have another tree too close to the house taken down in order to avoid the aggravation. Given that the tree is already causing damage that will likely get worse if the tree is left standing, I'd personally be inclined to have it taken down.

You might find a certified arborist to provide a recommendation along with an estimate to complete the recommended work without a charge. Definitely make sure that anyone who does tree work is fully insured (liability and worker's comp).


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for the insurance tip. A friend mentioned the same. 

I’m waiting for a second quote. I hate to be a tree killer, especially for such big ones, but the fact is that tree is in a terrible location. And again, me letting it continue to grow is just contributing to the problem.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Second quote came in $1900 less and said they’d use a crane parked in the street / sidewalk and the copper roof won’t be any concern. That makes me think there’s no rush on this one.

My insurance agent also confirmed that they don’t help with anything like this. My deductible is almost as expensive as taking the tree down, so even disregarding the hassle of a tree falling on a house, there’s not much financial benefit to letting the tree. Fall on this house. Not that I’d ever want that to happen, even if it was financially beneficial to me. 

Then today I got a call to have the removal scheduled for April 1. I said OK. I had been leaning towards not spending money I don’t have right now (and putting this on my home equity line of credit) and maybe using the excuse that I don’t want it done while I’m away in Florida (during the later time they originally said this would be done). Mostly that’s because of two factors:
1) They will use a crane and the roof below will be no worry for them, even if brand new. So there is no “urgent” factor.
2) I was told the tree is probably about 80 years old, and it wasn’t a factor of someone letting the tree grow right next to the house, but someone deciding to build the addition right next to the tree.

With those factors, and not wanting to be a tree killer, I was going to delay the expense. But I have agreed to have the tree taken down. They said they can get a stump grinder in for an extra $300 also. 

I figure the quote is a good price, and I should probably take advantage of the good price instead of dilly-dallying. 

How long do Ginko trees live on average?


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Insurance is a contract to protect you from financial loss, not potential loss; otherwise we could claim all sorts of preventive maintenance that would be paid for by every other policy holder. I'm not surprised they will bring in a crane or lift; they will essentially be dismantling it, not felling it. That tree is a risk to both your house and the neighbour's. What was chicken and what was egg is irrelevant now.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

lenaitch said:


> Insurance is a contract to protect you from financial loss, not potential loss; otherwise we could claim all sorts of preventive maintenance that would be paid for by every other policy holder. I'm not surprised they will bring in a crane or lift; they will essentially be dismantling it, not felling it. That tree is a risk to both your house and the neighbour's. What was chicken and what was egg is irrelevant now.


I agree. I’m just having a hard time with it, as it is certainly one of the most big and beautiful pieces of nature surrounding the home.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

So I’m still searching for someone to tell me not to cut the tree down. I’m going to see if I can get another crane quote, but my job is scheduled less than two weeks out now, April 1. I sort of feel like it’s a part of the house I will amputating. 

The son of the owners from 1970-2003 confirmed that the tree was there when his parents purchased, and I believe the Ginkgo was part of the Chinese theme of the back yard. I may need to try and plant another Ginkgo in its place a little farther from the house if we do chop this one down. That seems like the simple answer to my feeling of destroying the character of the home by taking down the tree. 

I do understand the issue and concern of damage due to even a limb falling, and how it will be much easier to have the tree taken down than it would be to deal with an insurance adjuster and repairs to the house after damage is done. 

Some pictures.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

I sympathize. You can't just replace a tree that size. I've taken down a couple of large trees that I really liked, but which were just problematic because of their size and location. It was a tough decision in both cases, but removing the trees also gave me an opportunity to try something different in terms of plantings.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I don’t want trees that close to my house. In western NY it would cost about $3000 to have the tree removed and another $500 to get the stump ground.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Quotes of $9700 (climber) and $7800 (crane, scheduled) and another $300 for stump grinding here. I was told by another guy that crane jobs are usually $5000. So I may make a few more calls.


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## awerby (10 mo ago)

The main thing I'd worry about is the roots cracking the foundation. If that's not happening, I'd be tempted to leave it be. What kind of tree is it, anyway? Some kinds are more likely to cause problems than others. If it's not a species that's known for dropping limbs or having roots that push up the soil, that would be an argument for letting it alone.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

awerby said:


> The main thing I'd worry about is the roots cracking the foundation. If that's not happening, I'd be tempted to leave it be. What kind of tree is it, anyway? Some kinds are more likely to cause problems than others. If it's not a species that's known for dropping limbs or having roots that push up the soil, that would be an argument for letting it alone.


I love to see SOMEONE giving me feedback like this. It’s a male ginkgo, a species particularly resistant to bugs and diseases, and known to live for literally thousands of years. 

Some time after 1970, an addition was added on the back corner of the house extending what was originally a porch (which now has a crawl space under it) about 6 feet in both directions. They basically built right up to the tree, sort of like, “Yeah, we know it’s a bad idea to build an addition up to a huge tree, but we’re doing it anyway.” The addition has added ~50 years of extra space to the house, but the portion of the roof that was flat has now been lifted to pitch the wrong direction, and a bridge from the slopes portion of the roof to the gutter was added with scabbed in cut 2-by to support an additional layer that will slope water to the gutter. We discovered this while doing the tear-off and prep for the new copper standing seam that’s about to go on. The addition is block and does have cracks that have been patched. 

The tree is essentially surrounded by “walls” on three sides. 

The one side without a wall gently slopes down to the back yard under the brick patio, and some big roots are there causing me to have to level the patio by adding dirt under the bricks.
The roots on the addition/house side must be going under the ~6 feet of addition that might not have a crawl space. It might though. I don’t know. I’m not sure what material foundation the addition would have, nor do I know the material of the porch’s crawl space foundation. It’s virtually impossible to get in there, and there are asbestos-covered pipes that would be difficult to avoid if I was able to get in there. I feel now that I do need to investigate.
on the front side, there’s some distance (10 feet?) before there’s a ~2-cinder-block-high-retaining-wall.
that same wall makes a nice corner, but ends at each fence post and becomes a mess of mangled block between each fence post, apparently with no connection between each fence post. I have every intention of removing as much block as possible, or rebuilding the wall with my neighbor into something that has some strength.

But the point is that it appears that the roots go down under these three walls for the most part with no issue, except for the house addition. 

Inside the addition, there are some really nice cherry wood cabinets in each corner by the tree. I can see the crown molding is pitched where the addition begins. 

So yes, it’s messing with the addition, but I have this feeling that “it’s not the tree’s fault, but the addition’s fault. So screw the addition. It should be built around the tree better, not vice-versa.” The tree has been there longer.

But if we can’t sleep through a windy rain storm for fear of the tree falling on the house, as the previous owner’s bedroom was in the farthest corner from the tree, then maybe that alone will cause us to want to take down the tree. 

Now one nice thing about the addition is that nobody should be sleeping in there. The addition would hopefully help slow down the tree from falling as hard on the house and chimney. 

The original house structure is very solid hollow terra cotta ~12x12” block doubled up against each other. The foundation of the house is brick, 3-4 bricks thick. I know this because I just had to drill through it for electrical and plumbing work. Even the garage is a brick foundation of the same thickness. There is also a brick wall on one side of the center hall that goes up to the top of the second floor. If the tree was to fall on the house, I have a hard time believing it would make it past the third floor. It would crush the cinder block addition, and perhaps take out some of the third floor and chimney. It would be a monstrous mess.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

I am scheduled for an arborist to meet me Wednesday. Crossing my fingers that they say, “this tree is very healthy and the chances of it falling on your house is very slim.”


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

Until it gets hit by lightning like the tree that used to be by my house.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Old Thomas said:


> Until it gets hit by lightning like the tree that used to be by my house.


Yep. Good point! 

If the arborist I’m meeting with in the next few days suggests it’s ok to leave the tree, I will ask about adding some sort of lightening rod. Hey… I’m currently running a new power line underground, so maybe I will already have the cabling leftover from the 200 amp service wire that runs from the house to the telephone pole.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

My tree got hit by lightning around 1985. The power spike close to our house tripped several ground fault devices, burned out the circuit board in our cooktop hood and turned on an answering machine that was in phone only mode for a long time along with other strange electrical anomalies. Over the next 20 years the tree went downhill, having a long battle to stay alive. Then we removed it. The initial strike blew chunks of bark off the tree and I found some 75 feet away. Other than that the tree looked unharmed but it slowly headed for death after that.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

To my surprise, a well respected arborist told me he did not think the tree was a human safety concern, stating his belief that the tree would not get enough momentum to do significant damage to the home or have people sleeping in the house concerned. He did mention perhaps cabling the split trunks/leaders to help assure they don’t pull apart. I expressed my concern and showed him the two dead cabled limbs on another tree in the yard. I’m waiting for quotes for service on the tree and others in the yard that need help. His quote to take the tree down would probably be twice that of what I currently have scheduled. So I think I’m going to to cancel the tree removal. Bad move? I hope not.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

mknmike said:


> To my surprise, a well respected arborist told me he did not think the tree was a human safety concern, stating his belief that the tree would not get enough momentum to do significant damage to the home or have people sleeping in the house concerned. He did mention perhaps cabling the split trunks/leaders to help assure they don’t pull apart. I expressed my concern and showed him the two dead cabled limbs on another tree in the yard. I’m waiting for quotes for service on the tree and others in the yard that need help. His quote to take the tree down would probably be twice that of what I currently have scheduled. So I think I’m going to to cancel the tree removal. Bad move? I hope not.


Get him to 'sign your notebook' and get his particulars so you can send him the bill if something comes crashing down. I'll bet if you called five certified arbourists you'd get six opinions.

You are struggling - I get that. It's already impacting on the addition, so it seems you have choices; do nothing and hope (hope is never a plan), remove the tree, remove the addition.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

I have decided to postpone the tree removal. The tree company offered to honor the price for 6 months. I feel very lucky.


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## Gunnilarss (10 mo ago)

Maybe you should turn to someone else. You should remove The tree because it harms you. Although there is another option if you say that the tree was planted before the extension was built. It only interferes with the extension. You should probably think about removing this extension and leaving the tree. This tree has already damaged your roof, and your house is partially damaged by its roots. You wrote about cracks. Therefore, I believe that the insurance company should still deal with such issues. After all, they are engaged in home insurance with wood-burning stoves and other similar insurance policies. Strangely, this tree is not their problem.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Gunnilarss said:


> Maybe you should turn to someone else. You should remove The tree because it harms you.


I like the tree, and don’t really want to cut it down.


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## Ibetyoulookgood1 (5 mo ago)

You should have posed such questions to your insurance agent -- different companies have different rules. In any case, the insurance company is right, you have to remove the tree, and it doesn't matter to them how you do it. The company does not want to pay much money for repairs... I don't have experience with anything like this, so I can't help. I have other questions about insurance right now -- for instance, about life insurance. Of course, I found something on What does a $5-$10 Million Dollar life insurance policy cost in 2022?, but I would like to ask you some questions, too.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Ibetyoulookgood1 said:


> You should have posed such questions to your insurance agent -- different companies have different rules. In any case, the insurance company is right, you have to remove the tree, and it doesn't matter to them how you do it.


I contacted my insurance agent, and they did not tell me I need to take down the tree. An arborist said it’s not a safety concern.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Last Saturday I heard a loud noise, but thought it was a fighter jet. They have to go over my house to a beacon on a nearby mountain. It wasn't. It was a 60' long Hickory tree that just gave up the ghost. Luckily it fell over my garden so no harm done. I thought, too, to call my Insurance guy to see if my policy covered its removal. Only if it hit a structure or a fence. Neither so I'm SOL. May cost up to $2500 to get it totally removed.


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

chandler48 said:


> Last Saturday I heard a loud noise, but thought it was a fighter jet. They have to go over my house to a beacon on a nearby mountain. It wasn't. It was a 60' long Hickory tree that just gave up the ghost. Luckily it fell over my garden so no harm done. I thought, too, to call my Insurance guy to see if my policy covered its removal. Only if it hit a structure or a fence. Neither so I'm SOL. May cost up to $2500 to get it totally removed.
> 
> View attachment 709307
> 
> ...


Sorry for your loss. 

Mother Earth will eventually take it back if you don’t care too much about your garden. 

I really love my 18v Ryobi chainsaws, an 8” pole saw, and a 12” regular chainsaw. They are very quiet and don’t have any issues with getting them started and warmed up. If I were you, I’d probably start turning the tree into firewood limb-by-limb and end up making money (saving heating fuel) instead of spending money on it. 

If it fell on a structure, that would be a big problem. 

And that keeps me thinking. Thanks for posting.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

During an ice storm in 1991 we lost an English walnut tree. My insurance would not cover the tree without something else being broken. It broke the post light at the end of the driveway so the insurance paid for removing the tree and replacing the light. 31 years have passed and no claims since then.


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## Liesovit (3 mo ago)

It's been six months, what's changed?


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Liesovit said:


> It's been six months, what's changed?


WHo is the question for?


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## mknmike (Feb 5, 2011)

Liesovit said:


> It's been six months, what's changed?


Nothing for me. Tree still stands. Seems very healthy.


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