# How to gfi protect bathroom fan?



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

last year I installed a bathroom fan as a temp fix. I simple removed the existing light and replaced it with a combo light/fan fixture and ran ducting out the roof. The time has come to finally demo the bathroom and I want to redo the fan properly.

My goals are, 
1) add a second switch so as to separate the light from the fan
2) move the fan into the shower area to more efficiently remove moist air.

Presently I have a feed coming into a single switch, the hot wire is switched and goes up to the fan/light combo. I am going to re run two sets of 14/2+1 up so that the feed coming in goes to two switches each feeding either the light or the fan. 

QUESTION: 
My question, is I am looking at a fan that is rated for in shower use so long as the fan is GFI protected. I am curious as to how I should go about doing this. Is this as simple taking the presently existing power feed, running it into the line side of a GFCI outlet, then running the load side of the GFCI to the two switches and then running up to the fan and light? 

Or is there something else that needs to be done?


Thanks much
Brian


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

The requirement to gfci protect the fan does not come from the code, but from the maker of the fan.
The gfci in the bathroom needs to be a 20 amp circuit, so you can not use #14 wire.
Does the gfci feed other bathrooms, or just this one?


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

*just*

Interesting, the house is 1968, and I am pretty sure the existing wiring is 14 gauge and on a 15 amp circuit (will have to verify this evening). The circuit originates in the box, powers portions of my hall, a guest bathroom, and then ends in the master bathroom.

I had hoped to just put a gfi just ahead of the fan switches so that the GFI outlet would just be feeding the fan. 

It sounds as though this may be more work than originally planned and that I may need to run a 20 amp circuit into the shower room area?


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Are the lights fed from this circuit now.
20 amp circuits, and gfci's were not required when your house was built.
If the fan is fed from this circuit, then you can add a gfci before the switch.

Sometimes it is easier to run new circuits.


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

I believe that the lights are presently fed from this circuit but I will wait until I get home and verify everything before saying for certain. This should make the debug situation much easier. 

Its an interesting situation as the bathroom is split by a sliding door into a shower/toilet area and a vanity area. I am only tearing out completely the shower/toilet area, while the vanity area is just getting cleaned up.

I was under the impression that when remodeling as things are opened up, it is possible that inspection will require me to update to bring old work into current code. IE perhaps this work is going to require that I feed the bathroom with 20 amps and add GFIS to all the outlets? However, as I am only tearing apart half of the bathroom is it feasible that I would have to bring the untouched part of the bathroom up to present code?

I really had hoped to just take the existing 14 gauge wiring split the light from the fan and add the gfi. Sigh. 

I suppose some of this is of course a question for the city.


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

That is a question for the city.
Code states that everything in a single bathroom can be fed from this 20 amp circuit, as long as the circuit dosen't leave that bathroom.
It may be easier to abandaon the circuit and install a new 20 amp circuit.


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

Yeah I am going to try and run down to the DPD office tomorrow and ask them what they want me to do. You are right in that it may just be easier to terminate the old circuit and pull a new 12-2 over into the bathroom.

b


----------



## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

I would pull a 12-3 or a 14-3 to the fan light instead of two 12-2's. You don't have much space in the junction box and do not need two neutrals from the separate cables.


----------



## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

My preference at my rental properties when rehabbing a bathroom is to power a GFCI protected bathroom fan off a separate blank-face GFCI:










as it makes makes things that much simpler to trouble shoot later and in the meantime means the fan will remain in service if a tenant trips a receptacle GFCI outlet and does not reset it.

In a "production" environment most people will not want to incur the additional expense, however.


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

Jim Port said:


> I would pull a 12-3 or a 14-3 to the fan light instead of two 12-2's. You don't have much space in the junction box and do not need two neutrals from the separate cables.


That is a good idea. So I would bring up the white neutral shared by both the hot red and blacks.

The bathroom receptacles are supposed to be 20 amp circuits, but what if I use one of those GFCIs shown above with no outlets? Since there is technically no receptacle can I just run 14-2 from the panel and into that, then 14-3 up to the fan/light and power the whole thing from a 15 amp breaker in the box?

Or am I required to bring the 20amp into the bathroom despite not going into a true receptacle?

Perhaps in the long run for future proofing and later remodels it is a better idea to just bring the 12-2 from the panel over anyway.

Brian


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, I had no idea those even existed.




Michael Thomas said:


> My preference at my rental properties when rehabbing a bathroom is to power a GFCI protected bathroom fan off a separate blank-face GFCI:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

*Verification*

So I have verified that indeed the present bathroom is powered from a 15 amp breaker in the box. Power comes from the panel into the fan switch box. A switched hot lead is then passed up to the fan/light in the ceiling, as well as the hot from the panel is passed down the line to another outlet downstream. 

Lets say I run a new 12-2 line over from the panel. In this case I no longer need the existing 14-2 wires in the switch box, but as they are cut, I still need to connect them in a junction box so as to continue powering the downstream outlet.

With the new power I am intending to put a new 3 gang box in. This box will have the new 12-2 come in, go to the GFI noted above, and then I will have two switches with a 12-3 going up to the new fan light.

Question: Can I have the old 14-2 feed and the new 12-2 feed both come into the same 3 gang box, and just make the junction between the old 14-2 and the downstream outlet in the new jbox?


Thanks much guys
Brian


----------



## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

I usually install the blank-face GFCI in a separate box in a location where no one will confuse it with a control for a switched device - however, I'm trying to minimize the likelihood a tenant will inadvertently deactivate the fan in a rental unit and cause moisture damage to the bathroom, which is not a typically a concern in a personal residence.


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

b_corwin said:


> Lets say I run a new 12-2 line over from the panel. In this case I no longer need the existing 14-2 wires in the switch box, but as they are cut, I still
> Question: Can I have the old 14-2 feed and the new 12-2 feed both come into the same 3 gang box, and just make the junction between the old 14-2 and the downstream outlet in the new jbox?
> 
> 
> ...


Yes you can do that!


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

jbfan said:


> Yes you can do that!


Thanks, good to hear. 

Heading down to the city today to talk about what Im doing and what I've done so far.

Thanks for the help everyone, 

I'll post what I find out for continuity.

B


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

*More thinking*

So I had some more thoughts as I have been reading the NEC. 

My understanding is that the bathroom receptacles shall be a 20 amp home run, and all outlets be GFI protected and that I cannot power additional devices off this circuit. 

In this case I cannot power my bathroom fan and later use this same 20 amp line for additional receptacles.

So it seems to me that if I run a 20 amp line to my bathroom and use it for my fan, I cannot later use this line in future remodels for adding outlets to the outer part of the bathroom. 

My question is: Lets say I add a blank face gfi on to my existing 15 amp circuit to protect my bathroom fan. Is this blank face GFCI considered a receptacle by the NEC and thus need to be on a dedicated circuit? If so how can I power my bathroom fan off it. It seems as though the code is saying I should power my bathroom fan off the existing 15 amp circuits, and run a 2nd 20 amp circuit just for the outlets?


Hopefully my question makes sense?

Thanks
brian


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

The blank face is not considered a receptacle.
I think you may have interpet the nec wrong.
You can use the dedicated 20 amp circuit to power everything, lights, fans, other receptacles in that bathroom as long as you do not leave that bathroom.
Of course we are not talking about installing a jacuzzi tub are we?


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi guys, Thanks Jbfan that was the same thing the guy at the city office told me about not counting as a receptacle. 

I must have read the code wrong.

After talking with the department of planning my plan is that I will power the bathroom fan and light off of the existing 15 amp circuit after passing it through a blank face gfci.

Thanks for all the help guys

B


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

I actually had a slight modification to my plan. I am going to put the fan up there, but am going to not put a fan/light combo in. IE there is going to be a dedicated fan unit, and then a recessed light can rated for use in shower. 

So my new question:
I was intending to run a single 14/3 up from my switch box to the attic. Originally with a fan/light combo, this was going to work well. Now that I am using separate light and fan, can I still run a 14/3 up? I know I can't split out conductors, so how would I go from one 14/3 piece of romex to 2 separate locations? I was thinking I could run all of the conductors in the 14/3 into the jbox on the light can, and then continue to the next fixture? But this seems like shoving a lot of wires into a small recessed light junction box. 

Should I just run two 14/2 up? Or can I still do this with the 14/3? I may end up putting in a second light can on the same light circuit over the toilet as well.

Thanks
B


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Either way.
A can light has room for the wire if you want to go with a 14/3 to the can, then a 14/2 fron the can to the fan.
The fan has a much smaller j-box and will not allow you to go the other way.

If the attic is accessible, then you can go to a seperate j-box, and split out from there.

I just read the part about a second light.
In that case go with 2 14/2 from the switch box.
Just make sure that the cu rating of the box is large enough for the number of wires.


----------



## cain8858 (Jun 11, 2009)

My 3 gang box has a 44 cuin capacity. By my calculations I have
2 switch = 4 conductors
1 gfci = 2 conductors
8 wires = 8 conductor
grounds = 1 conductor

which gives me 15, 14 awg conductors so I need to have 30 cu in?

Correct?

Edit: forgot to say thanks


----------



## Oldguynew2diy (Aug 30, 2020)

Just for clarification on wiring. Isn’t it code that wiring has to match what is currently being used? If a room is wired with 12-2 only 12-2 can be used to wire in new receptacles or 12-3 if you’re wiring in more then one light on the same line? I was taught that same wiring has to be used from breaker box to switch/receptacle to whatever is being wired(light, exhaust fan etc)


----------

