# Yeast Rolls (Skillet Style)



## John Smith_inFL

going to make this dish today but I"m not sure of the process as I am not a bread maker.
when making cornbread in a skillet, I preheat the oven and pan at the same time and 
the batter is poured into the hot pan.
with bread rolls, would this burn the bottoms or give them the highly prized crispy bottoms ?
since 12 rolls are in the recipe, I think I'll experiment and do 6 in a cold pan and 6 in a hot pan.
either way - they will surely disappear and I'll have my answer.
have you guys ever made Skillet Yeast Rolls ??


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## Two Knots

Oh boy John, you hit the jackpot with these rolls. I know that they will be delicious.
Butter and honey how could it not be? These are simple to make, and are definitely going to be in my near future. Thanks for this recipe. I love everything with yeast - bread, rolls, and cake too.


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## wooleybooger

Two Knots said:


> Oh boy John, you hit the jackpot with these rolls. I know that they will be delicious.
> Butter and honey how could it not be? These are simple to make, and are definitely going to be in my near future. Thanks for this recipe. I love everything with yeast - bread, rolls, and cake too.


I'll second that John. If I were you and what I will do when I make them is follow the recipe's preheating and cooking instructions and not worry about the bottom crust. Preheat oven, put dough in room temp pan and put in oven. Typical. That seems like a awfully lot of yeast for that amount of flour but I guess that is why they are called rapid rise.
I'll probably make it that way then reduce the yeast to 3/4 or even 1/2 teaspoon for an extended rise. That should contribute to flavor development. Possibly switch from AP flour to bread flour also, I'll have to think about that one, either will be OK.


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## Two Knots

Wolley, I put 1 Tab of yeast in my pizza dough to 3 cups of flour.
I think the rolls will taste yeasty and that’s a good thing.


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## wooleybooger

Yes TK with that much yeast I'm sure they will. With an extended rise you give the dough a chance to develop the natural sweetness of the ingredients. It's a toss up I guess, ain't no wrong way and by doing it different ways I will find a way we like best. Only one change at a baking though unless I decide to pull off multiple bakings in one day. Gad .


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## Two Knots

You reminded me about sweetness…I would also put 1 Tab of sugar in the dough.
In my pizza dough recipe to 3 cups of flour - I put 3 Tab of sugar.


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## John Smith_inFL

that was my thought, Jo - just the aroma of freshly baked yeast rolls can send those flavor receptors into overdrive.
and - yeast rolls are supposed to taste like yeast (IMO) . . . . I'll know how much is too much this evening.
I was mainly asking about the pre-heated skillet vs the cold one.


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## Two Knots

I would pre heat the oven with the cast iron pan just on top of the stove.
The pan would probably be just a little warmer than room temperature.
Also, I’m re-thinking the sugar, I forgot about the honey which is a sweetener.
Maybe just a pinch of sugar to help the yeast along.


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## wooleybooger

Two Knots said:


> I would pre heat the oven with the cast iron pan just on top of the stove.
> The pan would probably be just a little warmer than room temperature.
> Also, I’m re-thinking the sugar, I forgot about the honey which is a sweetener.
> Maybe just a pinch of sugar to help the yeast along.


I was just about to post that it's already got more honey in it than sugar. Honey, sugar, corn syrup, molasses are direct substitutes for each other, now other adjustments to the dough except maybe the liquid contents when using liquid sweeteners. In my bread I use honey for the sweetener nothing else. It rises just fine, two risings and about 2 hours depending on weather, I'll often put in an a translucent plastic bowl with lid and set outside in the sun on the tailgate of my truck for the radiant heat, tailgate may provide a little bottom warmth even in winter. Rises in the same amount of time even in temps near freezing.


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## Two Knots

Hey John, I made your rolls this morning.
I made them this morning…the head guy loved them.  He ate two with butter.
I made them early and let them rise at least an hour.
The only thing that I changed is - I added 1 teaspoon of sugar to help
proof the yeast…Very Good and yeasty!


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## John Smith_inFL

Jo - I was holding off until this afternoon to post . . . .
yesterday's "prototype" was a total disaster - all of it went out in the back yard for the critters (and they are still there).
it was awful - one cup of water and 4-1/2 cups of flower and still couldn't get it to get "un-sticky".
did another batch this morning and will be going into the oven in a few minutes. (they started out as golf ball size).
how long did you bake yours for ????

Edit: this is yesterday's fiasco. 35 mins @400* in a warm skillet.
oh, a few weeks ago, I picked up a vintage Sunbeam Mixmaster with two glass bowls, beaters and bread hooks at my local flea market. I have not used one since the '60s that my mother had. I didn't know the hooks have a right and left like the beaters . . . the big dough ball quickly climbed up the hooks and forced the dough into the sockets - - - not a good day for me to be in the kitchen.

























I got the Mixmaster for only $5.00 - - - oh yea, I'm lovin it. it didn't have the turntable so I bought one off of Ebay for $10.00. and it doesn't have the top assembly for juicers, etc.
but, a good table top mixer for $15 bucks isn't a bad thing. and the head comes off for hand-held mixing.


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## Two Knots

About 25 minutes at 350* I uses 3 cups of flour to 1 cup of water and one egg…
I did it in the food processor and just had to add 1 more heaping tablespoon of flour.
They were perfect.


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## Two Knots

John, as soon as they came of the oven I went over them with a little butter.


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## BigJim

Y'all are killing me here, I dearly love yeast rolls. I will try these.


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## Two Knots

John, do you have a food processor? I make all my doughs in the food processor it takes only one minute. Your rolls look good. How do they taste?
I love sweet breads, my favorite bread in Dom DeLouise ‘s mother’s Easter bread, I follow that recipe but I put extra sugar in it.

If you like sweet yeast bread, you’ll love this bread.


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## Two Knots

BigJim said:


> Y'all are killing me here, I dearly love yeast rolls. I will try these.


Jim, Be sure and post the pic when you make it.
Also, I used 3 cups of flour. Also, you can add a spoonful of flour
at a time - if the dough is sticky. I also greased the pan and
they pulled out individually.


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## John Smith_inFL

well - the 2nd batch was only 25% better than the first.
don't know what I'm doing wrong here, but it just ain't working for me.
are my expectations too high ?? I want "Dinner Rolls" just like the ones in restaurants and frozen foods dept in the store.
this second batch was too firm in the middle - are they too close together and sqooshed too tight to make it "packy" ?
also, they were a bit "granular" like cornbread - which a dinner roll should not be (not even close).
I'm going to buy a pack of frozen dinner rolls at the store and try to see "remember" what the insides should be like.
for me, the two times were a total fail.
BUT - I'll get it right yet. (oh yeah you betcha) I need some really nice Dinner Rolls for Thanksgiving !!
I think I'll compare notes with a few different recipes and see what's the commonality of them.


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## Two Knots

John, sorry you didn’t get it right.
maybe you didn’t kneed it enough. Tomorrow, I’ll
give you my Easter bread recipe. It’s a sweet dough
and can easily be made into rolls and put in the
cast iron pan like the honey rolls.

Do you have a food processor?
In the mean time look at this thread …see entry #31








Two Knots


Is this 1/3 cup or 1 and 1/3 cup pepperoni? Im making your pepperoni bread today.




www.diychatroom.com


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## Two Knots

John, your rolls were fantastic. I toasted them in the air fryer than smeared them
with a little butter and then drizzled them with honey. We felt like we were in Cracker Barrel.


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## Two Knots

John, give this a shot…
Here‘s the original recipe with my changes noted…this make two big
braided loves. At Easter time I put colored eggs in the braid... the rest of the
year I make it like the pic in pic # 15…you also don’t have to use the colored
sprinkles. You can also follow the original recipe, but everyone loves it sweeter.
Be sure to line the pan with foil or the bottom will get too brown.
I think it’s the milk, butter and sugar that makes this bread so delicious.











The eggs are colored raw they cook in the oven during baking of the bread.


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## John Smith_inFL

although the 2nd batch looked great and smelled awesome, the "texture" was not what I would like to have in a dinner roll. and a few hours later, after they had air dried on the counter, they were so crumbly they wouldn't even hold a spoon full of butter, much less some jelly too. (actually, Smuckers strawberry preserves - my favorite).
the instructions in this recipe says nothing on how to or how long to knead the dough. that may be the issue.


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## John Smith_inFL

your bread looks great Joann. but it's just me here that eats bread. I wouldn't know what to do with that much goodness.
thanks for sharing it. it looks awesome for a family dinner.


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## Two Knots

In #21 is that batch good ( it looks good) or was it the batch that fell apart?
Yes, kneed until smooth and let it rise until doubled. If it takes 1 to 1-1/2 hours
to raise that is ok.


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## John Smith_inFL

pics in #21 the is a poor attempt at the 2nd batch. (total fail).
put enough butter and jelly on it and it's "okay" LOL.

and to add insult to injury (but, in this case injury to insult) I cut the tip of my left index finger off yesterday afternoon (after cooking) with a pretty sharp carving knife - that now has a pretty big bandage on it. so the kitchen duties are on hold for awhile.
but - I'm still wanting to accomplish this one simple feat !!


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## Two Knots

Oh, I’m so sorry, for your cut. It happened to me one time. I was cutting chicken wings and I was in a hurry…Blood everywhere. I wrapped my finger in a wet wash rag and called our friend who was in charge of his company safety program and had taken first aid courses. I was a nervous wreck, and didn’t know if I need stitches.

He rushed over with his first aid kit in hand, took one look at my face and said, “Ok, calm down, and let’s go out side on the deck.” I followed him and his first aid kit outside, and he said, “ok, sit down…and now open your shirt!“  …He cracked me up.


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## John Smith_inFL

LOL that's funny right there.
craftsmen (and craftswomen) that regularly cut the same finger the same way learn how to quickly put it back together, douse it with HP and wrap it tightly and the "graft" will take with no long term ill effects (or stitches).
for wood carvers, it's just part of the trade.
but - I will still have time to find out how to do this one project that will not get the best of me. (dinner rolls).


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## wooleybooger

I think there is a bit of a learning curve in bread baking. The first time I tried the bread came out little thicker that the wet dough was before baking, I used Fleishman's Yeast in the little packets. Second try not much better. I was using Gold Medal AP flour also. Third time I used Fleishman's live yeast and Gold Medal flour, it worked. That told me the yeast is the key. Now I use instant yeast and any flour I want to. I haven't seen live yeast since the late '70's.


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## John Smith_inFL

wooleybooger said:


> I haven't seen live yeast since the late '70's.


that was going to be my first question.
I also use the GM AP flour and Fleishmann's "ActiveDry" Yeast in the little 1/4oz packets.
and I think it was Aerostotal that said: "oh we of little patience don't do well in learning curves" - or something like that.
I have a bag of cake flour, but it is a couple of years old, still sealed kept in the dark cabinet.
how long does flour keep ?? (and no, I haven't checked the "best if used by" date).


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## wooleybooger

John Smith_inFL said:


> that was going to be my first question.
> I also use the GM AP flour and Fleishmann's "ActiveDry" Yeast in the little 1/4oz packets.
> and I think it was Aerostotal that said: "oh we of little patience don't do well in learning curves" - or something like that.
> *I have a bag of cake flour, but it is a couple of years old, still sealed kept in the dark cabinet.
> how long does flour keep ??* (and no, I haven't checked the "best if used by" date).


I don't know but I'll say this, I've learned on other forums that lots of folks pay no attention to the "best by" date. I think mfg. is required to put that. Depending on the product there maybe some flavor loose after a time. That being said I have on hand in 5 gallon buckets, 135 lbs. AP flour, 90 lbs. of bread flour and 24 lbs.of rice flour not in buckets or original bags. I put food grade diatomaceous earth in the AP and bread flour. That will kill most protein (weavils) that might start growing in it. Wheat flour is notorious for that. The DE is perfectly safe for human consumption as are the dead weevils if you are so unfortunate to have them and won't effect your baking results and will add also a little calcium to your diet. The weevils will be tiny black specks.
On the AP flour brands I have Walmart, Peter Pan, White Lily I think and probably another. Who cares? All flours conform to industry standards. There may be minor nutritional differences but those are unnoticeable in use.


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## John Smith_inFL

correction: I meant "bread" flour - not cake flour. and the bread flour is best by April-2021. so it's still good.

DE ???? I've got a lot of it, but never thought about putting it in or near food.
Pre-Pandemic, the wife bought a 50 pound bag of rice and kept it in a closet. 3 months later, there are little black weevils all through the house. mainly in the bathroom looking for water, I guess. I traced them back to the bag of rice. I put all the rice in one gallon ZipTop bags and into the freezer - there are two bags left. (she is so cheap she won't let it go).
I'll be looking into that food grade DE for sure.
thanks


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## Nik333

Since flour tends to fly around some when you work with it, you might be interested with this in The Health Benefits of Diatomaceous earth by WebMD -

*"Health Risks*

If diatomaceous earth is inhaled, it may irritate the nasal passages. If a large amount is inhaled, it may cause coughing and/or shortness of breath. Diatomaceous earth can also cause skin irritation and dryness and eye irritation.

Inhaled amorphous silicon dioxide particles can accumulate in the lung tissue, bronchi, pulmonary alveoli, and lymph nodes. Continued inhalation of diatomaceous earth has been tied to several diseases, including lung cancer, silicosis, and nonmalignant respiratory diseases."

Regarding old flour -Sorry to be negative but there can be an Aflatoxin that grows in old stored grain, It can cause cancer.


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## wooleybooger

John Smith_inFL said:


> correction: I meant "bread" flour - not cake flour. and the bread flour is best by April-2021. so it's still good.
> 
> DE ???? I've got a lot of it, but never thought about putting it in or near food.
> Pre-Pandemic, the wife bought a 50 pound bag of rice and kept it in a closet. 3 months later, there are little black weevils all through the house. mainly in the bathroom looking for water, I guess. I traced them back to the bag of rice. I put all the rice in one gallon ZipTop bags and into the freezer - there are two bags left. (she is so cheap she won't let it go).
> I'll be looking into that food grade DE for sure.
> thanks


Yes, I would not hesitate about using it. I can't tell you the best buy date on any flour I have, I put it all in buckets closed with air tight Gamma Seal lids. Bugs can't get into it either unless the eggs were already there to start with. I've only had bugs in flour once. A 20 lb. bag of Golden Temple semolina from Canada. Bought it at an East Indian store. Tossed that and 40 lbs of AP flour that wasn't in buckets. I use 1 teaspoon full per lb. of food. Some folks use more. Check the internet on using DE and health benefits. Good stuff.
Check Walmart, feed stores, Amish or Mennonite stores, Home Depot for FG DE. Don't not get the type labeled "for crawling insects" it isn't food grade and likely will have contaminants in it.
I'm reminded that I need to dig out a bucket of AP flour, Bread flour, and pancake mix and refill my kitchen containers.


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## John Smith_inFL

Wooley - we shop at a local Asian grocery store. The rice is available in 10,20, 25, 50 and 100 pound bags and come straight from Asian countries. the very tiny weevil eggs are inside the rice grains. so, if not heated, frozen or cooked soon, they will hatch. a 50 pound sack in a closet is the perfect hatchery for these guys. I learned from this one to freeze whole grain stuff if it isn't going to be consumed right away. 
*Bon Appétit*


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## BigJim

John Smith_inFL said:


> pics in #21 the is a poor attempt at the 2nd batch. (total fail).
> put enough butter and jelly on it and it's "okay" LOL.
> 
> and to add insult to injury (but, in this case injury to insult) I cut the tip of my left index finger off yesterday afternoon (after cooking) with a pretty sharp carving knife - that now has a pretty big bandage on it. so the kitchen duties are on hold for awhile.
> but - I'm still wanting to accomplish this one simple feat !!


That is the pits John, I have been there several times, it still hurts no matter how many times a cut happens. I hope you recover quickly.


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## wooleybooger

John, I buy basmati rice usually at an Asian store I've only had 1 10 lb. bag have weavils and I got tired of washing the rice or just eating the dead protein and trashed it. Basmati comes from India/Pakistan and probably other countries. One bag isn't too bad considering I've been buying that brand for nearly 40 years. I don't take any special precautions storing it either. Right now I've got 40 lbs setting in an unused bathtub still in the original packaging.
I buy food grade 5 gallon buckets at Walmart in the paint dept. I by the white ones, they are labeled food grade as are the others but come closer to meeting the ANSI standard for those. Shop around for Gamma Seal lids they aren't cheap. A 5 gallon bucket will hold 33 lbs. of AP flour or 35 or 36 lbs. of brown or white long grain rice, 34 lbs of dry pinto beans. I have AP, Bread flour in buckets also pinto beans and bags of pasta. Pantry moths can't penetrate them either I think.


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## John Smith_inFL

Wooley - are you a member of the Prepper Forums ?


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## John Smith_inFL

thanks Jim - the "graft" took right away. it's a Blessing as how the human body can repair itself so quickly with minimal efforts on our part. 
I still remember Mark's hand cut on the table saw - he had a remarkable recovery.


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## wooleybooger

John Smith_inFL said:


> Wooley - are you a member of the Prepper Forums ?


I'm a member at Survivalist Boards.


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## John Smith_inFL

okay then - I was just wondering about the 5 gallon buckets LOL.
I keep my Mahatma rice in a plastic mayonnaise jar. a quart will last me a year.


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## wooleybooger

I forgot the 93 lbs. of canning and pickling salt in buckets, bugs don't get it salt so why air tight buckets huh. Moisture.


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## snic

When you're back in the baking saddle, John, consider kneading the dough by hand. The problem with using an electric mixer is that you don't really know how the dough is transforming because you can only see it, not feel it. Using a wooden spoon, mix together the wet ingredients, and some (but not all) the flour the recipe calls for. Keep adding flour until you get a workable dough. Dump it out onto the counter or a cutting board, gather it into a ball, and push it down and slightly forward with the ball of your hand, keeping one hand behind the other for extra force. Fold the somewhat-flattened dough over, rotate it a bit, and repeat. Do that for about 5 minutes, adding a bit of flour whenever the dough threatens to get too sticky to work.

You will feel the dough get smoother and more elastic as you work it. Generally when you finish kneading, you want the dough to be just slightly stickier than you'd like it to be in order to keep your hands clean. If the dough isn't sticky enough, it's not moist enough (because you added too much flour during kneading), and you run the risk that the bread will be tough and dry. At this point, add a teaspoon or so of oil to a bowl, form the dough into a slouchy ball, dump it into the bowl, and turn it around a few times to coat it with oil. That will prevent it from drying out as it rises. Cover with a towel and let rise in a warm place.

By the way, I use SAF Gold yeast. It is AMAZING stuff. With Fleischman's and Star and all the others I've tried, I'd occasionally get a batch that just refused to proof. That has yet to happen with the SAF. It is also _incredibly_ fast to bubble up when you proof it, and it's very tolerant to different temperatures, both hotter and colder than ideal. It's an all-around outstanding yeast. I buy a whole pound of it for next to nothing on Amazon, divide it into jars, close them tightly (you don't want moisture to get in), and keep all except the jar I'm currently using in the freezer. That last one I keep in the fridge.

Re the hot vs cold skillet: I'm really not sure. I think the rolls would turn out fine in a glass pan, to be honest...


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## wooleybooger

I'll pretty much agree with Snic except that I'll start the dough in a mixer and finish kneading using the method Snic described. As for stickiness I'll just say that I want the dough just to the point that it cleans my hands or latex gloves, it is not particularly sticky at that point. and if you need/want lots of info check out The Fresh Loaf forum. Probably more than you'll ever want to know and interesting to see what other amateur bakers are doing. There is also a Handbook on bread there but you'll need to sign in to open it.





__





The Fresh Loaf


News and Information for Artisan Bakers and Amateur Bread Enthusiasts




www.thefreshloaf.com


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## jimn

John I do bake bread .. every week . The issue I have with this recipe there is no fermentation which you need to get really flavorful bread. Bread that rises in a hour tastes in my book something like cardboard or worse that stuff called WonderBread . Here is a trick I use when making pizza dough. Find a standard yeast and flour dinner roll recipe (search parker house rolls on the internet). Make the dough up on day one. Let it start to rise (get slightly puffy) and then put in a plastic bag , seal it and put in the fridge until 2 hours before you want the rolls. Let it stand at room temp for an hour. take it out of the bag, knead it by hand a few times, let it rest 15 minutes. Shape into rolls and put in a baking pan (some like a 9x9 or a circular pan) . Let rise for 45 minutes an bake. I wouldn't use a cast iron pan. Unlike cornbread I don't think yeast bread would gain much. The leaven in cornbread (baking powder and baking soda) work by a chemical reaction triggered by liquid and heat. Yeast is a living organism and needs time to do its magic. The period of refrigeration will allow the process of fermentation to proceed and give you great flavot.


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## wooleybooger

I can't take issue with the recipe since I haven't made it. I have made a "no knead" roll having a lot of butter in it and the standard amount of yeast, actually I think the rise was retarded in the frig for several hours. Made a soft buttery roll. Made them when I first started bread baking maybe 45 years ago. The first time I was successful, since no. Why, IDK.


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## J. V.

jimn said:


> John I do bake bread .. every week . The issue I have with this recipe there is no fermentation which you need to get really flavorful bread. Bread that rises in a hour tastes in my book something like cardboard or worse that stuff called WonderBread . Here is a trick I use when making pizza dough. Find a standard yeast and flour dinner roll recipe (search parker house rolls on the internet). Make the dough up on day one. Let it start to rise (get slightly puffy) and then put in a plastic bag , seal it and put in the fridge until 2 hours before you want the rolls. Let it stand at room temp for an hour. take it out of the bag, knead it by hand a few times, let it rest 15 minutes. Shape into rolls and put in a baking pan (some like a 9x9 or a circular pan) . Let rise for 45 minutes an bake. I wouldn't use a cast iron pan. Unlike cornbread I don't think yeast bread would gain much. The leaven in cornbread (baking powder and baking soda) work by a chemical reaction triggered by liquid and heat. Yeast is a living organism and needs time to do its magic. The period of refrigeration will allow the process of fermentation to proceed and give you great flavot.


Agree. I learned a lot during the worse days of the pandemic. We could not find any bread and yeast was not found either. There were people selling yeast online for the same price as gold. "Sarcastic" but it felt that way.
So I decided to try and make sourdough. It was fun but wasted a lot of flour which was also very hard to find. You also had to discard at least half each day and feed again. So I was wasting and throwing away starter. I did finally learn to put active starter in the fridge to retard more growth.
But I learned things I did not know and I am thankful for the lesson.
I am not pastry chef and more of a line cook. I have not had much success baking. My breads and rolls are not perfect either. I have been buying pizza dough from a local pizza shop that is excellent, but somewhat expensive. Now that winter is on the way and its getting cool now, I am going to try again using yeast and flour.
When you make your pizza dough, do you use AP or Bread flour?


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## John Smith_inFL

thanks guys - I guess I'm expecting too much from what I am capable of doing. (unrealistic expectations ??).
when I want dinner rolls - I want them today, for lunch. not tomorrow.
like when I want biscuits or cornbread, 30 minutes later it's on the table.
I'll try one of the recipes that take hours or overnight, maybe next week. 
thanks to all for your invaluable suggestions.


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## J. V.

John Smith_inFL said:


> thanks guys - I guess I'm expecting too much from what I am capable of doing. (unrealistic expectations ??).
> when I want dinner rolls - I want them today, for lunch. not tomorrow.
> like when I want biscuits or cornbread, 30 minutes later it's on the table.
> I'll try one of the recipes that take hours or overnight, maybe next week.
> thanks to all for your invaluable suggestions.


I find myself in your exact situation. However, for me it's forgetting to take something out of the freezer to thaw. Then we end up getting food from the outside.
Remember you can freeze dough and take it out the night before and it will be thawed by dinner the next day. 
I love all baked goods, but I really need to lay off all these carbs.


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## John Smith_inFL

J.V. I got the Great Northern beans out of the freezer 10 minutes ago - it is in the microwave now on thaw cycle.
just put the cornbread in the oven - lunch will be served in 25 minutes.
I used to see frozen dinner rolls in the super markets - but now, I can't find them (naturally).
_what I really want them for_ is for is with my frozen turkey dressing that I have every few days. I LOVE my dressing in the single portion size frozen and some canned cranberry sauce. I have Thanksgiving Dinner at least 3 times a week.


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## snic

John Smith_inFL said:


> thanks guys - I guess I'm expecting too much from what I am capable of doing. (unrealistic expectations ??).
> when I want dinner rolls - I want them today, for lunch. not tomorrow.
> like when I want biscuits or cornbread, 30 minutes later it's on the table.
> I'll try one of the recipes that take hours or overnight, maybe next week.
> thanks to all for your invaluable suggestions.


You can totally make yeast breads "today", although there's always a rise step. No-knead recipes I think tend to require longer/slower rises. But there are some exceptions. For instance, the below recipe isn't for dinner rolls - but the end result is delicious as an alternative to cornbread with chili or other stews. (Another no-knead yeast bread I love is yeasted overnight waffles - but I like them for breakfast, not lunch. Happy to share the recipe if anyone wants. It takes 5 minutes of work the night before, then actually making the waffles is even easier the next morning than "regular" waffles.)

*No-Knead Yeasted Cheddar Muffins*

2¼ c all-purpose flour
1 T sugar
1 tsp salt
1 t SAF Gold yeast (or 2 t if using other brands)
1 c milk
1 T butter
1¼ c shredded extra sharp cheddar cheese

Warm the milk to lukewarm in the microwave and add the yeast and a pinch of sugar, and set aside to proof. Melt the butter.

Combine most of the flour, sugar and salt in a large mixing bowl,

Add the milk, stir, then add the butter and stir until smooth.

Stir in cheese and add remaining flour ¼ cup at a time until a soft, sticky dough forms.

Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled. (With SAF Gold yeast in an Instant Pot on the yogurt setting, this will take about 45 minutes, although usually I let it go for an hour or so, or longer if we're not ready to eat yet.)

Grease a muffin tin (I prefer silicone), divide the dough into 12 muffin cups*, let rise for another 30 minutes or so,* and bake at 350 degrees for 20-25 minutes or until golden brown.

Serve warm. The muffins will keep for a day or so in an airtight container, but the less fresh they are, the more dense they feel when you eat them. Freezing them might be one way to store them, but usually we eat them all within a day.

Adapted from "Trish- Mom on Timeout", who adapted it from Taste of Home

*I edited to add the text in this color. I realized I skipped the second rise step, which is pretty important. If you're in a hurry, the way to do it is to skip the first rise: knead the dough, divide it into muffin cups, and let rise for an hour or so in a warm place until the dough balls have puffed up nicely, then bake. If you're not in a hurry, it turns out slightly better with two rises, but only slightly.*


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## Nik333

John, I didn't see the rest of the thread a few days ago.
Make sure you aren't killing off some yeast with water that is too hot. Sugar in the water does help the yeast grow. For a finer, lighter texture you need to knead more & rise more.
Maybe, until you produce a close "perfect" roll, you should knead by hand.
Cast iron is great for camping, biscuits and fried chicken, but, for fine-textured bread you need even heat & even rising.

I'll find the classic Joy of Cooking recipe for you tomorrow.😊


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## John Smith_inFL

thanks again everyone for your time and consideration in this project.
I think that proofing the yeast and dough was a big contributor to the failure(s).
after looking at MANY videos, I went the scientific route with a thermometer in the milk at 107*f.
and the yeast popped right off. then, I kneaded the dough for several minutes and it doubled in size in the bowl after an hour. then, kneaded the rolls for a few minutes and proofed them on the pan for half an hour before going into a 350* preheated oven on my 65 year old biscuit pan for 22 minutes and they were perfect - just like at a restaurant. and just like I wanted.
_BUT !!!_ there was zero flavor and zero yeast aroma. they would make great hamburger buns because enough ketchup and mustard would add flavor to them. but, they had a really nice soft texture inside and crispy bottom. (thank goodness I only cooked half of them - the other half is on a cookie sheet in the freezer to see how that works). they will be bagged up later.
so - problem #2; how to remedy the smell and taste of freshly baked yeast rolls ???


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## snic

Hm, zero flavor and zero yeast aroma... that is odd. Actually the main aroma of baking bread is from alcohol evaporating from your dough, not the yeast itself. (Yeast causes the sugars and starches to turn to alcohol.) One way to increase flavor is longer and cooler rises. I think someone mentioned this approach above. Now that you've gotten the basic recipe to work, try that!

Basically, the idea is that slow fermentation imparts more flavor. The idea isn't just to get as much fermentation as possible - to do that, you would let yeast dough rise in a warm place for many hours, and your dough would become soaked with alcohol. At that point it won't rise anymore if you punch it down because the alcohol is killing some of the yeast. So the trick is to rise it at room temperature overnight or even longer in the fridge. Generally I don't bother with this because it's the "freshly baked bread" aroma and flavor I'm looking for, not the "complex and rich yeasty bread" flavor. While I love the latter in a good artisanal or home-baked bread, it takes time that I generally don't have (another argument for early retirement, so far unconvincing to the wife...)


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## Nik333

Did you have COVID? Even unknowingly? Ask a neighbor to try your rolls.


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## Nik333

My most flavorful bread, ever, was a whole wheat ( actually partly whole wheat and partly white) made with brown sugar, butter & pureed raisins. I left it un-risen, I thought, in the refrigerator overnight for some reason & it both rose and seemed to ferment. My dinner guests raved about the "beer" bread! It was especially good with melted cheddar cheese.


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## J. V.

John Smith_inFL said:


> thanks again everyone for your time and consideration in this project.
> I think that proofing the yeast and dough was a big contributor to the failure(s).
> after looking at MANY videos, I went the scientific route with a thermometer in the milk at 107*f.
> and the yeast popped right off. then, I kneaded the dough for several minutes and it doubled in size in the bowl after an hour. then, kneaded the rolls for a few minutes and proofed them on the pan for half an hour before going into a 350* preheated oven on my 65 year old biscuit pan for 22 minutes and they were perfect - just like at a restaurant. and just like I wanted.
> _BUT !!!_ there was zero flavor and zero yeast aroma. they would make great hamburger buns because enough ketchup and mustard would add flavor to them. but, they had a really nice soft texture inside and crispy bottom. (thank goodness I only cooked half of them - the other half is on a cookie sheet in the freezer to see how that works). they will be bagged up later.
> so - problem #2; how to remedy the smell and taste of freshly baked yeast rolls ???
> View attachment 672774
> 
> View attachment 672775
> 
> View attachment 672776
> 
> View attachment 672777
> 
> View attachment 672778
> 
> View attachment 672779


Did you add salt to the slurry/dough? Without salt the bread will not taste like anything. Its very important and much more important than the sugar. The flour will feed the yeast. This is the basis or sourdough. Thats why many bread makers make a slurry. Warm water, yeast and a little flour. They allow the yeast to feed on the flour for a little bit and then continue on with the steps for needing and rising. Further fermentation will occur as the dough rises.
I understand some breads benefit from sugar. But its not required for fermentation. I add a little sugar to the warm water and yeast to proof it. This verifies the yeast is good. 
I made some Parker House rolls and forgot the salt. We had to use salted butter (I use it anyway no matter what they say) and a little sprinkling of salt at service.


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## snic

Salt is indeed critical. In Tuscany they make all their bread without salt, apparently for historical reasons, and it's one of the few Tuscan foods that are downright inedible. (Well, that's a bit extreme - but my grandmother had a saying, "Ei ohne Salz ist wie Kuss ohne Bart" - Egg without salt is like kiss without beard - and I think she would have said the same thing about bread.)


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## John Smith_inFL

Nik - no, haven't had Covid - I still smell all the normal things as usual.
yes, 1 tsp salt - I think two tsp would suit me better. (yeah, I like my salt).
if I could get the aroma and flavor up, I would be one happy camper.
this is the recipe I ended up with: (anything that starts with HillBilly gets my attention).


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## snic

Nik333 said:


> My most flavorful bread, ever, was a whole wheat ( actually partly whole wheat and partly white) made with brown sugar, butter & pureed raisins. I left it un-risen, I thought, in the refrigerator overnight for some reason & it both rose and seemed to ferment. My dinner guests raved about the "beer" bread! It was especially good with melted cheddar cheese.


Was there a specific reason for the pureed raisins? I'm thinking wild yeasts... Many wines are fermented without adding any yeast. The winemaker relies on the wild yeasts on grapes to do the work, and they claim that this natural fermentation yields more complex and flavorful wines. That's also the idea behind sourdough - but I don't need the sour part, and I'd be perfectly happy with a "short cut" to better-flavored homemade bread.


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## wooleybooger

I doubt there is a short cut to better flavored bread. I'd recommend getting this book, read and study the technique of using less yeast or a pre-ferment, biga, or poolish. An excellent book.









The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread: Reinhart, Peter, Manville, Ron: 8601200635560: Amazon.com: Books


Buy The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders



www.amazon.com


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## Nik333

snic said:


> Was there a specific reason for the pureed raisins? I'm thinking wild yeasts... Many wines are fermented without adding any yeast. The winemaker relies on the wild yeasts on grapes to do the work, and they claim that this natural fermentation yields more complex and flavorful wines. That's also the idea behind sourdough - but I don't need the sour part, and I'd be perfectly happy with a "short cut" to better-flavored homemade bread.


I use golden raisins in my turkey giblet dressing and in my chicken curry with coconut milk. I must like them! 😄 They go well with onions. I think raisins were a condiment on curry I had as a child. But, I don't particularly like them in bread, maybe why I pureed them. Dark raisins. I was probably just fooling around. I used to make a lot of fancy breads. My college roommate gave me a huge ceramic bowl in which to knead my breads

It turns out that grapes are very healthy! I eat them daily.

I agree it was probably a natural grape yeast that helped the flavor.

I did also have regular yeast in the bread.


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## Nik333

Actually, a small amount of salt helps to control the yeast. They taught us that in Food Science. I think I remember it because it seemed odd.


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## snic

Nik333 said:


> Dark raisins.


Huh. Well, golden raisins are treated with sulfur dioxide, which could potentially kill or impede natural yeasts on the grapes.

I've got to try this with "natural" raisins.



wooleybooger said:


> I doubt there is a short cut to better flavored bread. I'd recommend getting this book, read and study the technique of using less yeast or a pre-ferment, biga, or poolish. An excellent book.


Yeah, I've bean meaning to start fooling around with pre-fermentation sponges. One of these days! Thanks for the book recommendation. My mother used to swear by the Tassajara Bread Book, although I never saw it in our house (she must have borrowed it from someone, or the library). She made some excellent whole wheat and sourdough rye breads in her day.









The Tassajara Bread Book: Brown, Edward Espe: 9781590308363: Amazon.com: Books


The Tassajara Bread Book [Brown, Edward Espe] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Tassajara Bread Book



www.amazon.com


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## Nik333

@snic - you know, Wild Yeast would be a great name for a bakery!


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## wooleybooger

snic said:


> Huh. Well, golden raisins are treated with sulfur dioxide, which could potentially kill or impede natural yeasts on the grapes.
> 
> I've got to try this with "natural" raisins.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've bean meaning to start fooling around with pre-fermentation sponges. One of these days! Thanks for the book recommendation. My mother used to swear by the Tassajara Bread Book, although I never saw it in our house (she must have borrowed it from someone, or the library). She made some excellent whole wheat and sourdough rye breads in her day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tassajara Bread Book: Brown, Edward Espe: 9781590308363: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> The Tassajara Bread Book [Brown, Edward Espe] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Tassajara Bread Book
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Looks like I'll be adding a book to my cookbook collection.


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## John Smith_inFL

well, you guys can get all Fancy-Dancy if you like.
all I need is some basic fat biscuits and rolls to sop up the gravy with.


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## Nik333

John Smith_inFL said:


> well, you guys can get all Fancy-Dancy if you like.
> all I need is some basic fat biscuits and rolls to sop up the gravy with.


You came to mind, today, without my being on DIY. I was thinking about kitchen gadgets. I maintain that my mom (gentrified VA hillbilly/Southern belle) was one of the best cooks I've known. She could make an exquisite eight course meal with old camping gear. I bought her first "set" of pots & pans when I began working full-time. She didn't care about such things, even though she had the money.

I bet you're the same way!?


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## John Smith_inFL

and she probably said: 
#1 = if it works for me, why should I change it.
#2 = people that need those new fangled gadgets need to learn how to "cook" first, before buying that stuff off the TV.


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## Nik333

Come to think of it, I've never bought myself a set of pots and pans!


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## Nik333

John Smith_inFL said:


> and she probably said:
> #1 = if it works for me, why should I change it.
> #2 = people that need those new fangled gadgets need to learn how to "cook" first, before buying that stuff off the TV.


We should all get together & have a camping cook-off! No fancy gear! 😄

I used to backpack a lot ( college age). The guys would complain about helping me haul the food in our backpacks, but, after they ate the first meal, I never heard another complaint! 😊


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## John Smith_inFL

I go to Thrift Shops and Flea Markets quite often and my favorite collectibles is vintage cookware from days gone by.
like that black biscuit pan that is in the photo of the rolls. 
I got it at a flea market in West Virginia 15 years ago and the lady wanted 25 cents for it. (yeah, a quarter).
she told me the story of how her mother used it often for biscuits and never had a pizza sliced on it.
(it is about 65 years old now). I gave her a $5 bill and said thank you - and where else can you buy a vintage, well seasoned with love biscuit pan for a quarter ???
and I have an ever growing collection of "almost new" vintage Revere Ware pots, pans and lids.
my wife will eventually force me into a corner and make me choose her or my cookware - - - I'm gonna miss her cooking.


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## Nik333




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## J. V.

Nik333 said:


> Come to think of it, I've never bought myself a set of pots and pans!


I have bought every utensil, pot, pan, knife and anything used in the kitchen. You see my wife knows I can cook and has not had to cook since we got together. In fact none of my 3 wives ever had to cook.
There have been exceptions like my last back surgery. I could not cook and lost 19 pounds.......lol


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## Nik333

wooleybooger said:


> I forgot the 93 lbs. of canning and pickling salt in buckets, bugs don't get it salt so why air tight buckets huh. Moisture.


I'm rereading the thread -
Could you devise a system of salt surrounding the rice or a like grain? Maybe a container around a container?


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## Nik333

jimn said:


> John I do bake bread .. every week . The issue I have with this recipe there is no fermentation which you need to get really flavorful bread. Bread that rises in a hour tastes in my book something like cardboard or worse that stuff called WonderBread . Here is a trick I use when making pizza dough. Find a standard yeast and flour dinner roll recipe (search parker house rolls on the internet). Make the dough up on day one. Let it start to rise (get slightly puffy) and then put in a plastic bag , seal it and put in the fridge until 2 hours before you want the rolls. Let it stand at room temp for an hour. take it out of the bag, knead it by hand a few times, let it rest 15 minutes. Shape into rolls and put in a baking pan (some like a 9x9 or a circular pan) . Let rise for 45 minutes an bake. I wouldn't use a cast iron pan. Unlike cornbread I don't think yeast bread would gain much. The leaven in cornbread (baking powder and baking soda) work by a chemical reaction triggered by liquid and heat. Yeast is a living organism and needs time to do its magic. The period of refrigeration will allow the process of fermentation to proceed and give you great flavot.


 Bump


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