# Device booting on UEFI boards



## ddawg16

Not sure why you went 32 bit on the Win7. It's going to limit you on the amount of RAM you can address.

UEFI came around as a result of the limitations of the old 16 bit Bios and us technogeeks wanting more options. I'm running an AMD 8 core processor as my HTPC and it has UEFI. No issues. Most of those old utilities we had....toss them. What ever might work now for sure will not work 5 years from now.

You really need to get the user manual off the web site. They change so much a printed manual is almost useless. 

Are you wanting to do dual boot with Linux?

BTW...I'm using an SSD for the OS (Win7 64 bit). Once I'm past the POST, 7-10 seconds boot time.


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## Bob...

hi ddawg16. I want to be able to boot up utilities for accessing the system outside of windows, imaging drives, virus checking, etc. Some can be done from within windows. Parted Magic boots fine. Windows Repair isos work. Windows official Win 7 install isos don't work (no mouse support). Some linux isos work.

I often use isostick or a zalman drive to boot from isos. Some boot, some don't. The manual on Gigabyte's is ok, but not very complete.

Basically, I want to be able to boot up to various isos and utilities outside of windows as I can do with old bios systems.




easy2boot


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## Bob Sanders

I use BOOTit Bare metal. Even comes with a disk imager which will image any OS or drive. Works outside of windows so it will boot up just about any device or OS

You install it on your machine, and your machine basically boots to it which in turn gives you the choice of booting to what ever you want. There is a maintence section which allows you to format disks, do disk imaging... etc. Great little program.
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-bare-metal.htm


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## ddawg16

I have an MSI board....I need to look at it's dual boot features....

I've been thinking of tossing Linux on it.

My oldest son also wants to start learning real code...starting off with Java...so we have some things planned for this winter.


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## Bob...

Bob: I used BING many years ago. It was great. I'll likely look into that...it's a good solution for this machine, but I also will be working on systems on location. 

ddawg16: He's been bitten, huh? Good father-son project.

But there must be some standard method of booting these boards from USB, CD, etc. to avoid these issues (aforementioned). The crazy thing is, no one seems to know why I'm having these issues. And it's not confined to the machine in question. I have an Asus Maximus Hero that is behaving the same way. You'd think it would at least boot properly from CD. The CD loads up a hinky Hiren's, but the FAT32 isostick loads up Hiren's just fine.


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## Bob Sanders

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I have an Asus Maximus V Extreme mobo (UEFI dual bios) and I have no issues directing my boot.

If I go into BIOS boot options it gives me options to boot from USB, optical drive, and hard drive. At the moment I have usb boot disabled because the boot up takes a bit longer and I don't use it really.

But I can enable everything and set up my boot priority for usb first, optical drive second, and HDD0 third, HDD1 forth, HDD2 fifth..... and so on

Are you saying you can't do this?


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## gregzoll

Switch off Secure Boot, change UEFI to AHCI/CSM for older OS's that cannot handle the UEFI bios. I have to do this for when I use Clonezilla to back up my son's laptop. Also have to turn off both settings to install Linux on a unit.

UEFI bios's can be controlled within the OS, if you have the motherboard or OEM computer manufacturer software for controlling it.


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## Bob Sanders

gregzoll said:


> UEFI bios's can be controlled within the OS, if you have the motherboard or OEM computer manufacturer software for controlling it.


If I'm reading this correctly, he's not interested in operating within Windows... or from a HDD for that matter. From what I'm getting here, he's trying to boot from other devices (cd, usb, etc for the purpose of running independent maintenance programs. That I believe has to be done directly through bios by properly setting boot options/priorities.

I'm still not clear however why he's having trouble with this. These options are available on even the most basic bios systems... uefi or otherwise.


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## gregzoll

Yes Bob you are correct. But in order to do that, you have to turn Secure Boot off, and the UEFI option to AHCI/CSM, in order to get the boot device to work. Until the hardware is upgraded for these external devices, so that they work with UEFI. You have to resort with booting old school.

This is probably the best tutorial out there, regarding what the OP is wanting to do. http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/13326-downgrade-windows-8-windows-7-a.html


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## Bob...

Bob and Greg: I have bios options correctly set (secure boot shut off, AHCI, see image).

And boot order is not a problem. The problem seems to be what is being boot. All of my non-uefi bios boards have no issues, but both the Gigabyte and Asus UEFI boards seem to balk at about _1/2_ of what I try to boot. _And again, I'm booting from bootable isos._ 

Some will boot and freeze (or at least no keyboard and mouse). ATIH rescue disk with winpe, for example. Trinity Rescue Kit will start to load, but not complete with a cannot find files error.

Let's reiterate Hiren's, for instance (On the UEFI boards):

If I boot it from CD, I can NOT use the DOS utilities from the front-end menu. I can load up mini XP, but will not have full functionality (i.e., no Hiren's menu, which contains backup tools (macrium, etc), password tools, etc.). Sometimes there is not mouse support. The same thing happens with my NTFS formatted SSD inside my Zalman VE300 enclosure.

If I boot from my FAT32 formatted isostick (again, UEFI boards), Hiren's boots up fine. Runs as it should, all utilities and items available, including in Mini XP.

But not everyting from the isostick will run. Same with the zalman. SOme will, some won't.

This inconsistency happens on 2 UEFI boards, even though they are on machines with Non-UEFI windows installations. Even though all of the secure boot options are turned off.

In the screenshot below, you'll notice that Secure Boot Mode is set to standard even though Secure Boot is disabled. Not sure what that's about, but the fact that my Asus board behaves the same way with all secure options turned off makes me believe there is an issue with either what is being booted or the format of the boot software. 

But, if the latter, there are other inconsistencies to deal with (such as the fact that Rufus will not format a full MS Win 7 SP1 official iso to fat 32).

This seems very convoluted in the explanation. Maybe too much info to convey.

Does no one else have these issues? Image attached:


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## Bob...

gregzoll said:


> Yes Bob you are correct. But in order to do that, you have to turn Secure Boot off, and the UEFI option to AHCI/CSM, in order to get the boot device to work. Until the hardware is upgraded for these external devices, so that they work with UEFI. You have to resort with booting old school.
> 
> This is probably the best tutorial out there, regarding what the OP is wanting to do. http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/13326-downgrade-windows-8-windows-7-a.html


This is a custom built machine with Windows 7 Pro installed. It is not installed as UEFI. The same is true for the system with the Asus board.

The info at the link posted in my OP (Easy2Boot) has articles and videos. They seem to believe that these UEFI boards look for a FAT32 partition to boot from. This makes sense (in my case), since the FAT32 formatted isostick works the best. 

I am booting from isos, so maybe that adds to the issue for UEFI boards. I may wind up just trying the easy2boot method to see if it works, as I will need a consistent method for booting from USB (for maintenance, etc.) for these type boards.

I'm just surprised that no one else seems to be having these issues.


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## gregzoll

Bob... there is no such thing as DOS anymore. That went the way of Windows 98. It also does not matter if it is a custom built machine.


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## ddawg16

gregzoll said:


> Bob... there is no such thing as DOS anymore. *That went the way of Windows 98*. It also does not matter if it is a custom built machine.


Not quite accurate...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS



> MS-DOS 6.x
> Version 6.0 (Retail) – Online help through QBASIC. Disk compression and antivirus included.
> Version 6.2 – Scandisk as replacement for CHKDSK. Fix serious bugs in DBLSPACE.
> Version 6.21 (Retail) – Stacker-infringing DBLSPACE removed.
> Version 6.22 (Retail) – New DRVSPACE compression.[19]
> MS-DOS 7.x
> Version 7.0 (Windows 95, Windows 95A) – Support for VFAT long file names and 32-bits signed integer errorlevel. New editor. JO.SYS is an alternative filename of the IO.SYS kernel file and used as such for "special purposes". JO.SYS allows booting from either CD-ROM drive or hard disk. Last version to recognize only the first 8.4 GB of a hard disk.
> Version 7.1 (Windows 95B – Windows 98SE) – Support for FAT32 file system. Last general purpose DOS to load Windows.
> MS-DOS 8.0
> Version 8.0 (Windows ME) – Integrated drivers for faster Windows loading. Four different kernels (IO.SYS) observed.[20]
> Version 8.0 (Windows XP) – DOS boot disks created by XP and later contain files from Windows ME. The internal command prompt still reports version 5.0


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## gregzoll

ddawg19, DOS died with Windows 98. It is no more. You now have the Powershell & Command Window Interface for the NT OS's.


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## Bob...

You're right, Greg. DOS is no longer with us in it's original form, but it does live on in boot utilities and in the command-line interface along with most of it's original commands and new ones. 

But that's incidental to the issues I'm having. The "DOS" programs on the hiren's iso _do_ work on my UEFI machines when booted with the FAT32 isostick. But they _don't_ work when booted from CD or my zalman.

Other inconsistent results between the devices also exist (in what will boot with what device).

The issue I need to resolve is to consistently be able to boot any of the UEFI boards with at least one of my 'multi-boot' devices (preferably the Zalman or the isostick). Unfortunately, I'm only learning the right questions to ask as I go. 

And this inconsistency exists even when booting from an optical drive. Since the EFI bios looks for a FAT32 partition, I'm wondering if that's at least _part_ of the problem. I have more trial and error to do.

But honestly, I thought that this would be a known issue, especially since it happens on more than on UEFI board here. Maybe it is and I'm just no asking the right questions. Thanks for any light y'all can shed on the issue, and any other ideas much appreciated.


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## Bob Sanders

Bob... said:


> This is a custom built machine with Windows 7 Pro installed. It is not installed as UEFI. The same is true for the system with the Asus board....
> I'm just surprised that no one else seems to be having these issues.


Again, I am not having the issues you are.

I have all of the above... 
herins boot cd , bootit bare metal cd, I also have a few other dos base maintenance disks as well
Windows 7 pro 64 bit
Asus uefi board
and I am not having the issues you are. Both Hierens boot cd and bootit bare metal come in the form of bootable isos and they both boot with no issues at all.

Granted I have not tried booting from stick. I have no need for that at this time but the cd's... no problems. How old is your drive?


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## Bob...

Bob Sanders said:


> Again, I am not having the issues you are.
> 
> I have all of the above...
> herins boot cd , bootit bare metal cd, I also have a few other dos base maintenance disks as well
> Windows 7 pro 64 bit
> Asus uefi board
> and I am not having the issues you are. Both Hierens boot cd and bootit bare metal come in the form of bootable isos and they both boot with no issues at all.
> 
> Granted I have not tried booting from stick. I have no need for that at this time but the cd's... no problems.


So you boot Hiren's, burned from an iso to CD and it boots to full functionality?



> How old is your drive?


I've actually tried it in 3 different drives, one of which is an Asus I just bought new.

But it appears that I'm not the only one having this problem. Here is a search on the terms: hirens UEFI boot missing function

I won't be able to get back to this for a day or two, but that may be a good place for me to start. Thanks for hanging in there, and I'd appreciate hearing if anything else occurs. I'll post back with my progress tomorrow or the next day.

Thanks!


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## Bob Sanders

Bob... said:


> So you boot Hiren's, burned from an iso to CD and it boots to full functionality?


Correct.
BOOTit Bare metal is the same. Comes as a bootable iso. You can either install it directly to your HDD, or boot up and run the maintenance section (disk image, partition resize/moving/formating) on cd as a portable. I have no issues at all with any of this.

Now, what I will say is that when I boot hirens cd and launch "windows mini xp", I don't get mouse support and that's a bit of a pain. I have to navigate with the keyboard.

I have noticed that setting up and buring bootable iso's over the years has gotten a bit more complicated. I've been using BOOTit bare metal now for many years and it actually used to be called BOOTitNG and back then you simply burned your iso to disk and away you went. Today however before you burn your disk there are 101 setup questions you have to answer... and
"mouse support enable/disable" is one of them.
Needless to say I have no mouse support issues on BOOTit bare metal because it actively asked me about mouse support while setting up the cd..... but I have no mouse in Hirens cd.

At any rate, I don't think this is a UEFI problem as much as it would be a wrong setting, bad cd or drive. 

Did you customize hirens cd at all, or did you simply burn the downloaded iso? I'm working with the standard downloaded version.


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## Bob...

Hi, just getting back here. It's been a busy week, but this aftn I had a chance to put a little time in. I'm happy to report that progress has been made. Not just in function, but also in understanding what (at least in part) the issue may be. Seems like it's a USB problem rather than a UEFI problem (of course, all UEFI boot settings are set to off in the bios).

If I use the front panel USB (plugged into motherboard header) to boot my isos, I lose mouse and keyboard support in many of my boot isos (or freezes the program completely...hard to tell since there is no mouse or keybd)). Using the back ports improves things greatly. Unplugging other USB devices improves it more. There are still a few issues, but I'm _very_ happy with the progress.

Another issue resolved in a different way. The hiren's issue with my Zalman (would boot up to mini xp, but no mouse or keyboard and no NBCD menu items from within XP, no ability to run DOS programs from Hirens).

This issue was resolved by copying the HBCD folder from the boot iso into the root directory of the Zalman drive. It still boots from the iso, but now it can find the tools. Hiren's now boots up from the zalman drive iso with full mouse and keyboard support and fully functional HBCD menu & utilities! It still has the same issues when booting from the CD, though. I suppose if I were to somehow add the HBCD folder to the root drive of the CD, it would work.

So there are still some issues, but enough resolution to get the job done.

Now booting (weren't before):
Trinity Rescue Kit
Various distros of Linux
Offline NT
Hiren's (different fix mentioned above)
Windows install isos
Macrium with winpe
ATIH with Winpe
Paragon Rescue Kit
and others

One problem that still exists is that I can't seem to get my slipstreamed windows installs to boot or even be seen as boot (Vista, win 7, win 7 Universal (32 or 64).

The Official win 7 isos do boot, as do the windows repair isos (but they booted before).

Bob, as far as Bootit, I may give that a shot. I actually paid for BING (and IFW) back in 2004. Judging from what was said on the Terabyte site, I may still be eligible for a 50% upgrade discount. When I was in the windows beta groups, there was a user who swore by BING. I didn't use it that much because I had been using Ghost and then Acronis and was good with those, but Acronis has worn a bit thin on some points. And the price is reasonable, even at full price. Thanks for the pointer.

And thanks to all for the input. There are still some baffling issues, but significant improvement. Since the non-uefi boards don't cause these issues, I would think that they must somehow be related to the architecture of these UEFI systems.

Hopefully, my experience will help someone googling for answers to these problems.

Bob.


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