# Stone Veneer Firepit



## cocobolo

Hi there,

If you got your footing poured today, could I suggest that you leave it a little more than 24 hours before you start to load it up.

I know the concrete may be hard, but it lacks much strength this early. Even 3 or 4 days makes quite a difference.

And was it necessary to add any rebar? Sometimes it isn't...all depends on how much load you will be adding and what the ground is like underneath.

Looking forward to seeing pics of each stage as you go.


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## Ivy

Yes, pictures would be nice. I plan to reface my brick fireplace in stone veneer and would like to see some DIY pictures... Good luck on your project.


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## eemichael83

Here is the area I'm working with for this project:









cocobolo,
Thank you for the tip. I actually was not able to get around to pouring the footing today and here's why:









Those are 5 gallon buckets for reference. I'm guessing that rock was about 4-4.5' long, about 2-2.5' wide and about 1.5' deep. I have no idea how much it weighed, but it was a whole lot.

Basically, I originally planned to level out the entire 15' circle seating area before outlining the inner and outer pit circles. BUT this rock was underneath. I dug and dug... and dug... the rock just kept growing. I finally got it moving with a lever but I could never actually move it from its hole... way too heavy. I even grabbed a pick axe and tried cutting it in half, but this was taking entirely too long. I probably wasted a good 3-4 hours on just this rock. I was able to shift the rock so it didn't sit quite as high, but because of this thing, I'll probably just work with the level that the ground is at now. It is really not too bad though. My guess is that there is maybe an 8" drop over the 15' from one end to the other.

Ivy,
I will certainly post pics of the veneer and the progress. Tomorrow I can take some pics of the veneer as it sits on the palette, but it probably wont be laid till the end of the week. For reference I'm using something called 'Quick Stack' in a 'Cedar Creek' color. Looks like this:









Hopefully it will take to the curved surface OK. BTW, in the couple of boxes of this stone veneer I got, I had about 1/3 of the veneer pieces broken in half. I was a bit discourage by this thinking they might be fragile. So I tried breaking one with another, and they are actually quite strong. It took several strong hits to even chip one. I'm guessing the busted pieces were from either a really hard drop of the entire box or maybe a QC issue. The place I purchased from was more than happy to give me a new box for about 2/3 of a box of broken pieces so I was pretty happy with that.

BTW, should I mix this quickrete (sackrete) in a paint bucket or something first and then pour it in the hole or is it really OK to just pour the mix in the hole and then pour the water in afterwards like it says on the bags? Also, what are the tolerances on getting the mix/water mixture correct?


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## cocobolo

eemichael83 said:


> Here is the area I'm working with for this project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cocobolo,
> Thank you for the tip. I actually was not able to get around to pouring the footing today and here's why:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are 5 gallon buckets for reference. I'm guessing that rock was about 4-4.5' long, about 2-2.5' wide and about 1.5' deep. I have no idea how much it weighed, but it was a whole lot.
> 
> Basically, I originally planned to level out the entire 15' circle seating area before outlining the inner and outer pit circles. BUT this rock was underneath. I dug and dug... and dug... the rock just kept growing. I finally got it moving with a lever but I could never actually move it from its hole... way too heavy. I even grabbed a pick axe and tried cutting it in half, but this was taking entirely too long. I probably wasted a good 3-4 hours on just this rock. I was able to shift the rock so it didn't sit quite as high, but because of this thing, I'll probably just work with the level that the ground is at now. It is really not too bad though. My guess is that there is maybe an 8" drop over the 15' from one end to the other.
> 
> Ivy,
> I will certainly post pics of the veneer and the progress. Tomorrow I can take some pics of the veneer as it sits on the palette, but it probably wont be laid till the end of the week. For reference I'm using something called 'Quick Stack' in a 'Cedar Creek' color. Looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully it will take to the curved surface OK. BTW, in the couple of boxes of this stone veneer I got, I had about 1/3 of the veneer pieces broken in half. I was a bit discourage by this thinking they might be fragile. So I tried breaking one with another, and they are actually quite strong. It took several strong hits to even chip one. I'm guessing the busted pieces were from either a really hard drop of the entire box or maybe a QC issue. The place I purchased from was more than happy to give me a new box for about 2/3 of a box of broken pieces so I was pretty happy with that.
> 
> BTW, should I mix this quickrete (sackrete) in a paint bucket or something first and then pour it in the hole or is it really OK to just pour the mix in the hole and then pour the water in afterwards like it says on the bags? Also, what are the tolerances on getting the mix/water mixture correct?


The problem with simply pouring water on the concrete mix is that you don't necessarily get any kind of accurate mixing.

Most concrete products require a specific amount of water per cubic foot of mix. So really, the best thing to do is to mix it properly in a wheelbarrow first, then dump it in to your hole. It should say on the bag how much water is required for each bag. I think it is around 3 liters for a 55 lb bag.

Looks to me like you are going to have one heck of a strong base under there!


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## eemichael83

Thanks for the tips cocobolo. To address the rebar question from before, I was going to put a few pieces of 3/8" in there just as 'insurance' that it wont ever crack. Also, I didnt have a wheelbarrow and I didnt want to spend 40-50 bucks on one just for this, so I ended up using the two 5 gallon buckets. I'd fill one with the concrete mix while someone poured a little water in at the same time. I mixed it by pouring it in another empty 5 gallon bucket and just pouring them back and forth into the empty bucket and adding a little water if needed. It was pretty tiring and a little hard on the back but it did save me a few bucks. Fortunately the concrete wasnt setting so fast that it wasnt still workable by the time I finished with the 8 60lb bags. I didnt get the rebar in though... the mix was thick and I just felt like I was having to force it in too much and I didnt want to compromise the strength and the compactness of the concrete as it was. So I'll just have to cross the fingers on no cracking. On to the pics!

After spray painting the 3' circle and 5' circle, I dug out the trench for the footing:









Concrete poured and putting on some finishing touches. I think I got it pretty level, level enough at least:









IVY, here is what the stone veneer looks like before going on:


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## Ivy

Cool, thanks for the pics! I see Lowe's is selling stone veneer now. I've always heard that they are reasonably priced too.


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## cocobolo

That definitely looks great.

In future, if you want to put some rebar in something like that, what you could do would be to bend the bar to the shape of the circle - then you put about 2" of concrete in, then add the rebar, then the rest of the concrete.

It doesn't look like you are ever going to have any sort of problem there, that's going to be pretty strong.


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## MagicalHome

Wa, your project sounds great! I think the garden will be very beautiful once you'll complete it. Like the stone veneer very much :x


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## eemichael83

OK, let the concrete set up for several days and today was the first long day without rain so I got back on it. Progress was much slower than I thought! A large part of the time was spent having to hand mix the sand, mortar, and water every hour (~every 4 half blocks) in a 5 gallon bucket! A lot of mortar had to be used to since the half blocks had large gaps on the outer diameter. I filled these pretty well I think. Its already pretty hard and immovable 




























Also, I swapped out the veneer type that I was going to use with a different one. I'll be using the same color but I picked a veneer with smaller pieces; or at least with the large pieces, they can be turned vertically and it still look natural. The first veneer I picked had some pieces that were about 16" long and it would not form around the 5' circle without creating pretty bad corners and open gaps. The style of the old veneer also prevented me from being able to turn the pieces vertically... it would have looked kindof bad.

I've also decided that I'm going to go with the brown/tan flagstone as the seating area. I believe I'll use sand to level everything out and build some sort of very short retaining wall on the low side to hold the sand in. The on the sand, i'll place the flagstone. The flagstone is backordered for about 2 weeks though.

Hopefully with the long weekend I'll at least be able to finish the blocks and put up the refractory brick. I doubt I'll get to applying the veneer or the caps till next week.


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## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> Also, I swapped out the veneer type that I was going to use with a different one.
> 
> Good idea, I was going to suggest you do so. Those stone were far too long for the radius you have.
> 
> Hopefully with the long weekend I'll at least be able to finish the blocks and put up the refractory brick. I doubt I'll get to applying the veneer or the caps till next week.


What are the FB going to be sitting on? Do you have a plan for drainage inside the pit?

Make sure to use exterior rated (hydraulic set) refractory for your FB as well if you want them to last.


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## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> What are the FB going to be sitting on? Do you have a plan for drainage inside the pit?
> 
> Make sure to use exterior rated (hydraulic set) refractory for your FB as well if you want them to last.


Ya know, originally I was planning to have the Firebrick sitting on the concrete pad I thought I had made the ring wide enough for both, the block and the Firebrick, but it ended up only being wide enough in a few places around the inside. I'm open to suggestions, but I was probably going to set the firebrick on the dirt or maybe some small stones/sand (on the concrete where its wide enough) and rely mostly on them adhering to the cinder block. I do have refractory mortar to use with the bricks.

For drainage, I was probably going to put some 2-3" Egg Rock that I found at Lowe's in the center of the pit and allow that to do most of the drainage; I kept the center free from concrete to allow the ground to absorb the water.

I look forward to hearing your input on what to place the firebrick on since my original plan to set in on the pad isn't quite panning out. If necessary, I can probably dig a few more inches around the inner circle and pour a little more concrete. Not my favorite idea, but if it must be done, then that's what I'll do. I would however be a little concerned about how the concrete may react with the heat of the fire, although it may not be an issue since the fire will be raised a few inches by the Egg Rock.

Thanks for the input so far


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## jomama45

What area of the country/type of climate are you in?

Are you sure you have the "correct" refractory?


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## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> What area of the country/type of climate are you in?
> 
> Are you sure you have the "correct" refractory?


I'm in Bowling Green, KY. Wikipedia classifies our climate as 'Humid subtropical climate'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Green,_Kentucky

It says average lows in January reach around 25F. Of course it will occassionally get colder than that. I'm not really sure how to describe the type of soil here... my best guess would maybe be sandy loam? but I'm really not familiar with different soil types. Regardless, I want the thing to last.

The type of mortar they gave me for the firebrick is called Heat Stop II Refractory Cement. This is what they picked out for me to use at the local brick and block shop. Thanks for the help!


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## eemichael83

Finished up the cinder block wall. I also bought a couple more bags of quickrete to extend the concrete pad on the inside for the firebrick. Didnt get to that part yet but will hopefully tomorrow. After that, it will need to set up for a few days before laying the brick, I plan to take that time to try and lay out the veneer pieces to see how it will look and how they'll fit. I'm still a little kinda 'meh' on whether or not I like the veneer or not... the color just seems OK in the box. Perhaps it will look better outside in the sun all put together and after they've been rinsed off. We shall see. Here's the progress today:










It is surprisingly almost perfectly level. This was one of the biggest concerns I had before starting, was being able to get it level. Its only off by at most 1/4" across the 5' width, in most places it is right on


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## jomama45

It sounds like you're on the right path:

- The Heat Stop II is exactly what you need for this. It goes to show what purchasing at the "correct" kind of store will get you: good product & info.

- The reason I asked about climate is because of concern for freezing & frost in winter. Probably not a huge issue where you're at, but you may have some issues with standing water inside through time. I normally try to build these things with a solid concrete & firebrick floor with a drain in the center to grade. The drain also doubles as a fresh air intake, which can be very helpful in a deep firepit.

- I would definately make sure you have some concrete for the FB to bear on, as full depth FB will not "adhere" ver well to the block IMO. If you had purchased split FB, that may be a different story.

How do you plan (pattern wise) on laying the FB inside? With the tight radius you have, I would suggest either sawing them in half or setting them vertically as "soldiers".


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## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> It sounds like you're on the right path:
> 
> - The Heat Stop II is exactly what you need for this. It goes to show what purchasing at the "correct" kind of store will get you: good product & info.
> 
> - The reason I asked about climate is because of concern for freezing & frost in winter. Probably not a huge issue where you're at, but you may have some issues with standing water inside through time. I normally try to build these things with a solid concrete & firebrick floor with a drain in the center to grade. The drain also doubles as a fresh air intake, which can be very helpful in a deep firepit.
> 
> - I would definately make sure you have some concrete for the FB to bear on, as full depth FB will not "adhere" ver well to the block IMO. If you had purchased split FB, that may be a different story.
> 
> How do you plan (pattern wise) on laying the FB inside? With the tight radius you have, I would suggest either sawing them in half or setting them vertically as "soldiers".


Thanks for the quick reply and the insight! I really appreciate the confirmation on the Heat Stop and your overall help and guidance. I had to rely on their recommendation since this is really my first masonry project. So thank you sir!

I was 'planning' to place the firebrick on the sides. I didnt think it would be too bad since they are only an inch longer than the block and the 8" block seems to form a decently smooth circle. They'll also be painted with a high temp black paint. I'll lay them out in a few different ways first to see what might work best. I'll also consider cutting them in half as you've suggested.

I do have one further question with regard to where to use the Heat Stop and where I can use regular Type S mortar. I know that I need to use the Heat Stop between each firebrick, but do I need to use it in the space between the FB and the cinder block, or could I just fill that in with Type S mortar once I've laid up all the FB? Also, I'm going to let the FB set and harden before I put the caps on... I want the cap to come up to the edge of the FB but not hang over into the pit (do to the heat). Do I need to use heat stop between the cap and the FB/Cinder Block wall, or can I use the Type S across the entire top?

Last question is if say I put the veneer on, and after a year I decide I'm unhappy with its appearance, how difficult would it be to chisel the veneer off without harming the rest of the structure so that a new veneer could be applied? I'm not going to apply it with the intention of wanting to change it after a year, but sometimes your taste changes or you just decide you dont like the look. As I said, Im kinda on the fence at this point on if I like the look of the veneer and I wont really know how well I like it until I get the flagstone 'patio' in to see how well it all comes together, but it did seem to be one of the more natural looking and better looking options that they had on their sales floor. It would be nice to know that I would have the option in the future to make the change if possible.


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## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply and the insight! I really appreciate the confirmation on the Heat Stop and your overall help and guidance. I had to rely on their recommendation since this is really my first masonry project. So thank you sir!
> 
> You're welcome, and that's what this place is about, sharing knowledge. But I'm too young to be called "sir"! :laughing:
> 
> I was 'planning' to place the firebrick on the sides. I didnt think it would be too bad since they are only an inch longer than the block and the 8" block seems to form a decently smooth circle. They'll also be painted with a high temp black paint.
> 
> If your using the "Jet Black" FB stain from Alsey, make sure to stir/shake the heck out of the can, as it has a very high solids content & settles to the bottom of the can.
> 
> I'll lay them out in a few different ways first to see what might work best. I'll also consider cutting them in half as you've suggested.
> 
> See what works for you asthetically. I personally like the brick in half meaning 4.5" by 4.5" by 2.5" thick. If you have something that you can put a cheap diamond blade into, you'll find that they saw very easily. Just make sure to wear a mask, as there is alot of silica in FB.
> 
> I do have one further question with regard to where to use the Heat Stop and where I can use regular Type S mortar. I know that I need to use the Heat Stop between each firebrick, but do I need to use it in the space between the FB and the cinder block, or could I just fill that in with Type S mortar once I've laid up all the FB?
> 
> Type S is fine behind the FB & at the top where they meet the cap.
> 
> Also, I'm going to let the FB set and harden before I put the caps on... I want the cap to come up to the edge of the FB but not hang over into the pit (do to the heat). Do I need to use heat stop between the cap and the FB/Cinder Block wall, or can I use the Type S across the entire top?
> 
> You won't have to wait long on the FB to harden, tas the Heat Stop II sets fairly quick & strong. I would actually suggest getting your FB damp before installing them so you have a little time with them.
> 
> Last question is if say I put the veneer on, and after a year I decide I'm unhappy with its appearance, how difficult would it be to chisel the veneer off without harming the rest of the structure so that a new veneer could be applied? I'm not going to apply it with the intention of wanting to change it after a year, but sometimes your taste changes or you just decide you dont like the look. As I said, Im kinda on the fence at this point on if I like the look of the veneer and I wont really know how well I like it until I get the flagstone 'patio' in to see how well it all comes together, but it did seem to be one of the more natural looking and better looking options that they had on their sales floor. It would be nice to know that I would have the option in the future to make the change if possible.


You shouldn't have much problem getting the veneer off of the block, other than the veneer may get destroyed in the process.

If the color of the stone is questionable now, you could always use a colored mortar to give the stone a whole different effect.


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## gma2rjc

Is there a computer program you can use to design the fire pit the way you have it, with the fb you have? You'd be able to get an idea of how it looks before you do all the work.

Maybe even a landscaping program?


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## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> You shouldn't have much problem getting the veneer off of the block, other than the veneer may get destroyed in the process.
> 
> If the color of the stone is questionable now, you could always use a colored mortar to give the stone a whole different effect.


Thats good know, I really wouldnt be worried about destroying any old veneer just as long as the block and FB didnt get damaged.

I was kindof thinking about maybe using a black grout for use between the stone pieces... what are your thoughts? Would I be able to use that type of grout that comes in one of those caulk tubes or will I have to use a Type N mortar.. or do they actually have Type N mortar in a caulk tube? lol



gma2rjc said:


> Is there a computer program you can use to design the fire pit the way you have it, with the fb you have? You'd be able to get an idea of how it looks before you do all the work.
> 
> Maybe even a landscaping program?


Nope, I dont have an app for that. I think it will turn out pretty good though.


I got the small trench inside the pit dug and poured the concrete pad for the FB to sit on. I made it a little wider than necessary just to make sure I don't have to do it yet again!


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## Itsdanf

It's been nice tracking your progress. Looks like you're also getting excellent advice! Please keep the photos of your progress coming.

I do have a follow-up to one of jomama45's suggestions: Is it too late to do something about drainage/ventilation? It's sometimes hard to get perspective from photos, but it looks like the firepit particularly after adding FB) would retain a lot of water in a hard rain -- which I think you get periodically where you live. I also like the concept of getting air coming in from the drain when a fire's going. 

I imagine you could still dig underneath the current concrete and retrofit some kind of drain system, if you were strongly motivated. 

Just wondering your thoughts....


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## eemichael83

Itsdanf said:


> It's been nice tracking your progress. Looks like you're also getting excellent advice! Please keep the photos of your progress coming.
> 
> I do have a follow-up to one of jomama45's suggestions: Is it too late to do something about drainage/ventilation? It's sometimes hard to get perspective from photos, but it looks like the firepit particularly after adding FB) would retain a lot of water in a hard rain -- which I think you get periodically where you live. I also like the concept of getting air coming in from the drain when a fire's going.
> 
> I imagine you could still dig underneath the current concrete and retrofit some kind of drain system, if you were strongly motivated.
> 
> Just wondering your thoughts....


Thanks for the comments! I will definitely keep the pics coming  I was kindof thinking that the large Egg Rock in the pit would help with the drainage and airflow beneath the fire. It should elevate the firewood about 4" off the dirt. We do tend to get some hard rains every now and then but _usually_ the ground is pretty dry and absorbs rainwater like a sponge.

Would there be any problems with what I was originally planning? What might you suggest as an alternative? Would it possibly be easier and a good alternative to dig the dirt out of the center of the pit a few inches deep and then fill it with large diameter rock so that the water collects below all of the brick and concrete? Or possibly just use a masonry bit to drill a few small holes on the low side... I dont think they'd be visible since I'm going to use sand to level out the seating area. Then water could drain into the sand in the seating area. It probably wont do anything for airflow though. I would think that air should be able to flow under the fire ok though with large rock beneath the firewood.


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## Itsdanf

eemichael83 said:


> Thanks for the comments! I will definitely keep the pics coming  I was kindof thinking that the large Egg Rock in the pit would help with the drainage and airflow beneath the fire. It should elevate the firewood about 4" off the dirt. We do tend to get some hard rains every now and then but _usually_ the ground is pretty dry and absorbs rainwater like a sponge.
> 
> Would there be any problems with what I was originally planning? What might you suggest as an alternative? Would it possibly be easier and a good alternative to dig the dirt out of the center of the pit a few inches deep and then fill it with large diameter rock so that the water collects below all of the brick and concrete? Or possibly just use a masonry bit to drill a few small holes on the low side... I dont think they'd be visible since I'm going to use sand to level out the seating area. Then water could drain into the sand in the seating area. It probably wont do anything for airflow though. I would think that air should be able to flow under the fire ok though with large rock beneath the firewood.


I'm definitely no expert with this! Just a humble DIYer that likes to wrap his brain around other people's projects (particularly ones I'd like to tackle myself some day).

I recall the huge rock you found when trying to level the ground. If you had one of those directly under the pit, it might impede drainage -- but it'd certainly also impede digging for a drainage solution, too.

One thing you could try, when the latest concrete's set up adequately, is to run water from a hose into the pit, and see how it handles the load. If the water drains away decently, then you're probably set. If not, you might need to consider drainage solutions.

The two I thought of: 

1) Weep holes drilled horizontally through the base of the wall (similar to what you mentioned).

2) Put a drain in the middle by digging under the wall/foundation, and putting a drain pipe downslope from the pit, with the drain entrance in the middle of the pit. This sounds like what jomomma45 was suggesting. He also mentioned concreting the whole floor of the pit with this option (to keep sand from clogging the drain).

In your case, hopefully you won't have to consider options. But you might want to test now, before you go any further with the FBs...

Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> I was kindof thinking about maybe using a black grout for use between the stone pieces... what are your thoughts? Would I be able to use that type of grout that comes in one of those caulk tubes or will I have to use a Type N mortar.. or do they actually have Type N mortar in a caulk tube? lol


There is NO way I can recommend going with a dark grout on here. It's far too dated of a look for me to recommend IMO.

No tubes for this job, just Type N or S, preferably pre-mixed for your convenience. I would stop by your masonry supplier to see if they carry a tinted pre-mix mortar, as some here are starting to carry a few pre-blended colors by Quickrete. Regardless of the name, I've been happy with the product so far.

The only other thing you need to grout is a "baker's bag" to install the grout. There is a secret "trick" involved in grouting with the mortar though. If you can keep a secret, PM me when you're ready for this part & I may let you in on it. :laughing:


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## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> There is NO way I can recommend going with a dark grout on here. It's far too dated of a look for me to recommend IMO.
> 
> No tubes for this job, just Type N or S, preferably pre-mixed for your convenience. I would stop by your masonry supplier to see if they carry a tinted pre-mix mortar, as some here are starting to carry a few pre-blended colors by Quickrete. Regardless of the name, I've been happy with the product so far.
> 
> The only other thing you need to grout is a "baker's bag" to install the grout. There is a secret "trick" involved in grouting with the mortar though. If you can keep a secret, PM me when you're ready for this part & I may let you in on it. :laughing:


lol, when I get to that point, I'll send you a PM :thumbup:


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## eemichael83

Yesterday I decided to take jomama45's advice and cut the bricks in half. I used a dewalt grinder with a 4.5" diamond blade. I had 52 bricks and it took around 3 hours to measure and cut them all. Today I decided to take a half day since it wasn't going to rain, and I laid the fire brick. Just like everything else with this project, it took a lot longer than I thought it would... around 6 hours. Here's the progress:










Not a perfect circle, I know... but close enough


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## jomama45

Looks good to me. :thumbup:

FB and refractory mortar aren't the easiest to work with, but it looks like you found that water is your friend when it comes time to clean them.

Now's probably not a good time to tell you this, but there is a far easier way to mark those brick in half: FB are exactly twice as long as they are wide (and twice as wide as they are thick). You can simply set one FB perpendicular on top of another, flush with the edge, and trace the edge of the upper FB. Meaning you use the width of the upper FB to mark the lower in half. You could have marked all of them in a matter of minutes......... :whistling2:

Keep up the good work.


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## eemichael83

^ Thanks 

I actually measured out the first brick, and then used the cut piece from it as a template... still took a while to cut with the 4.5" blade though... I had to cut, then flip, then cut again to get all the way through. I didnt worry a whole lot about keeping the brick clean since I'm going to be painting them with the high temp black. Now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that I can pull off the veneer and the caps as decently as the rest!


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## cocobolo

Looking good! Well, the weekend is coming up, will we get to see more pics?


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## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> Looking good! Well, the weekend is coming up, will we get to see more pics?


Well I wont be able to work on this any Saturday, but possibly Sunday if it isnt raining. There has been a good chance of rain almost every day since i've started this project! You guys will be the first to know when I get started back on it via some pics of the finished job


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## shumakerscott

I want to see a fire:yes:. Now if you could only make some sort of an oven out of it. Looks great, dorf dude...


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## eemichael83

Sorry for the delay guys, it had been raining a lot here and it finally stopped. Just as the rain stopped though, I got the flu! I'm getting over that now and will hopefully finish this thing up sometime this week. :thumbup: Then I got another small project that I'll be posting up.

Quick Question: Will it be necessary to apply a thin scratch coat before placing the veneer on since the wall is already kindof rough?


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## eemichael83

Opinions needed!

OK, so I probably should have started laying out the pattern a little sooner... it seems as if they purposely manufactured this veneer so that NONE of the sizes will fit together without having to cut them! I managed to get a small section laid out today without cutting... yet... but I need opinions.

Should I try and lay the veneer so that they fit tightly (like the right portion of the pic) or should I allow for a small space between the pieces so that grout/mortar can be added between (like the left portion of the pic)? Also, any opinions on the pattern so far? Good variation? Bad variation?










One plus for laying them with space between is that it will give me more options/freedom in the placement of the pieces since they dont have to be the EXACT same size. Some pieces will lay and will literally be off by only 1/8-1/4" from being tight. Another benefit will be if I have to cut a piece, grout/mortar will help cover and blend the cut end. I'm just not sure which will look best as I've never done this type of thing before. Thanks for any opinions!


----------



## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> One plus for laying them with space between is that it will give me more options/freedom in the placement of the pieces since they dont have to be the EXACT same size. Some pieces will lay and will literally be off by only 1/8-1/4" from being tight. Another benefit will be if I have to cut a piece, grout/mortar will help cover and blend the cut end.


 
Those are all great reasons why I would lay the stone with about a 1/2" joint. Plus, with the outside radius of your firepit, you don't really have an option. If you fit the stone tight at the back, you will end up with a substantial joint no matter what. 

Don't be scared to cut the stone with a grinder from the front side, it is done all the time professionally. Just be sure to smear the cut end with mortar to hide the aggregate.

BTW, there are very few stones/patterns that are actually modular that wouldn't require cutting to fit in a small area like your's. The few that are out there would be too big for your proect anyways. Don't be second guessing your stone selection, it will look fine, unless of course you end up going with the black grout.............. :laughing:


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## eemichael83

Made a tad more progress today. I laid out the pattern that will cover about half of the pit (~8'x1.5'). All I'll need to do, is trim a few of the tops and bottoms of some of the pieces with the diamond blade as they are applied.










I should hopefully be able to get this applied tomorrow. I also picked up a 75# bag of 'Light Buff' Brixment B-10 mortar for use on the veneer and as a grout. While I was there, I checked out the brown flagstone that they just got in. I was impressed! It has a nice marbling look with some varying swirls and shades... I think it will look very nice once I lay it


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## cocobolo

...more progress...looking good!

I like the way the layout looks as you're doing it, and I'm intently listening to what jomama says in case I end up doing anything like this in future.


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## eemichael83

I feel it necessary to say that I have a whole new respect for what masons do! This is some hard work! Well here's the progress I made today:









Not nearly as much as I'd hoped to get done, but after dragging all the tools and materials out, and then having to clean up afterwards, I only had about 2 hours worth of work put toward it after my day job. I think part of what took so long was making sure that the first few stones in place were 'perfectly' level so that all the work from then on would be right. The biggest reason, though, was my insecurity with the work. By this I mean that I keep fearing that the stones are not going to hold. I had a similar fear when building the block wall, and then again with the firebrick and those both came out very strong. I just can't help but be unsure about my work since I've got literally zero experience with it.

Other notes about the work... before applying the stones, I wet them and the block that they were applied to so that the block wouldn't suck out all the moisture of the mortar too quickly and it could cure properly. I also found that when applying them, it helped to 'wiggle' them just a bit as I pressed them against the wall... once they were in place, I continued to press VERY firmly for a good 10 seconds or so. If I did this, they seemed to 'bond'/hold much better. Before I figured this out, I had one stone that would move pretty easily even after it had set for about an hour and a half... I had to pull it and the stone above it, scrape off all the half dry mortar and reapply with the method above... it seems to be holding MUCH better than before. I guess I'll have a better idea of how well my work will hold tomorrow after they've had time to set. 

One other thing is that as I applied the stones, I tried to keep the space between them free of mortar so that it will be easier to apply the mortar/grout later. I figured if I tried to apply stones AND work the joints at the same time, I wouldn't leave myself enough time for tooling them later and they might set before I had time to clean them and make them 'pretty'. So I'll just apply the mortar between the stones on a day when I have a full day, and I can let if set partially and then tool before it gets dark. Hopefully this is a good way of going about it. <fingers crossed> Oh and I kept the spacing a little tighter than 1/2", hopefully that wont bite me in the rear later when trying to squeeze mortar in there.


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## eemichael83

More progress (just under 1/2 way with the veneer)...



















I sat the caps on top of the pit to see what they might look like... I think I may be returning them and trying to use the same flagstone that will be used for the 'patio' also for the caps. Reason being, the caps have a completely un-natural finish. The color matches the stone veneer fairly well, but every one of the 12"x14" caps has diagonal lines across them with the color. Kinda hard to explain but I'll post up a pic of them later.


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## Ivy

That looks really nice... You are doing a Great job!!!


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## jackie treehorn

Very nice!!


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## eemichael83

OK, finally finished up with the veneer. Just have to fill it with the grout. Next up will be purchasing the flagstone for the caps and patio area.


















^The small gaps under some of the stones (to make level) will be covered later with the 2" thick flagstone.

This is the backside where everything met. I was a little worried about how the pieces were going to work out once the two sides came together, but I think they came together pretty well. The only part I'm not thrilled about are the 2 'L' shaped pieces that I cut. If I hadnt cut them that way, I feel like the pieces would have been too small though. The top 'L' shaped piece probably won't even be visible when the cap is on, but the other small 'L' piece will be.










And here are the completely un-natural looking caps that I will likely be returning.










I also purchased 5 of the wood adirondack chairs to go around it


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## jomama45

Very nice work Michael! :thumbsup:

I'm, looking forward to it grouted, as well as with the flagstone caps.

Just a note, you're going to spend a lot of time fitting flagstone on that thing, so be warned..... :laughing:


One other thing, I think you need to do something about propping the one section of railing on the deck, it's drawing attention away fron your firepit...... :whistling2:


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## eemichael83

Worked on it for a few hours today, got about 1/3 of it grouted and tooled. Its more difficult to get the mortar through the grout bag than I thought it would be. I started to get the hang of it though. The grout really makes a big difference... to show this, I took the pic so that ungrouted is on the left half and grouted is on the right half.










I also sprayed some round up on the weeds that started to grow in the area and cleaned up the unused stones. I'm really thinking I'll have the flagstone next week. I also received a 12" x 1/2" masonry bit to drill a hole through the wall on the low side for drainage.


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## gma2rjc

It's looking great! Can't wait to see it finished.


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## shumakerscott

Mix the motar thinner. It should flow out like Cream of Wheat. Let it sit for a little while then tool it in. Looking good, :yes:. dorf dude...


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## eemichael83

Grout is over 3/4 done now.


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## eemichael83

Grout done. Next up, build retaining wall, fill with sand, and level.


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## gma2rjc

Did you get the tile around the top of it?


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## eemichael83

gma2rjc said:


> Did you get the tile around the top of it?


No not yet. I've decided to use flagstone for the cap and I have to have that delivered. I figured I'd put up the retaining wall and fill with sand first so I know how much extra sand I need them to deliver when they deliver the flagstone.


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## eemichael83

Putting some work in on this today, snapped this pic on my 'break' 









Should be done with the trench for the retaining wall in the next hour or two and then I'm going to go pick up the edgers. I suppose I'll just pick up these kind from HD:http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The patio will probably be level with the ground on the front side and on the back side, those edgers should only come out of the ground around 6-8". I'll lay the flagstone on top of these edgers so you only see them from the edge and not at all from on top of the patio.


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## eemichael83

I got almost half of the retaining wall finished before I ran out of supplies. I'll pick up more tomorrow and continue on! Here are some pics:


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## cocobolo

I've been itching to post something on your thread for awhile now. It's really coming along nicely.

When will the flagstone be delivered, any idea? And how long before you expect to be finished.

We're all as anxious as you are to see a fire in there! :thumbsup:


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## eemichael83

Thank you very much! 
I plan on picking up the rest of the edgers I'm going to need tomorrow, and I'm thinking I can have the retaining wall done by wednesday but that will depend on the rain since we're supposed to be getting a lot of it this week. If I get it done wednesday, then I'll order the flagstone and more sand on thursday and they should have it delivered that day or the next. I'll probably take off work friday and spend the entire day on it.


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## gma2rjc

It's looking very nice eemichael83.

Before you put down the first layer of edgers, are you leveling the dirt first or is it only necessary to level the gravel? I thought about doing this for a raised flower bed in my yard, but have been intimidated by getting that first layer level.

Thanks for keeping us updated. Next time you're at the store, get the stuff to make S'mores - you'll be building a fire any time now.


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## eemichael83

gma2rjc said:


> It's looking very nice eemichael83.
> 
> Before you put down the first layer of edgers, are you leveling the dirt first or is it only necessary to level the gravel? I thought about doing this for a raised flower bed in my yard, but have been intimidated by getting that first layer level.
> 
> Thanks for keeping us updated. Next time you're at the store, get the stuff to make S'mores - you'll be building a fire any time now.


I've been filling with dirt most of the way, then tamping that down to compact it, and then I put a thin layer of the paver gravel down to make it easier to level. The paver gravel is also supposed to help with drainage but I'm really not too worried about that. Also, I was a bit worried about getting the first layer level too, but the paver rock really makes it easy.


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## eemichael83

OK, yesterday I was able to pick up some more edgers (all that would fit in my car without busting the suspension anyway :laughing but by the time I unloaded it all, it started pouring. Today, the rain held off, so I was able to get some more work in. Yet again, I ran out of material. I'll probably pick up the remaining edgers tomorrow on my lunch break that way I have all of tomorrow afternoon to finish. Here's todays progress:



















Once I finish placing the edgers, I'm going to fill in the low spots as much as possible with the loose dirt and put down some of the landscape fabric. Then I'll use my 12" x 1/2" masonry bit to drill the seep hole in the pit wall and I've got some 1/2" PEX tubing that I'll run from the seep hole to the end of the retaining wall on the low side. I got the PEX tubing because it was much more flexible than the PVC and will prevent me from having to put an 'L' piece in. On top of that will go the sand, then the flagstone!


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## gma2rjc

Can I make a suggestion? Don't use the landscaping fabric. 

Weeds still grow through it, but you can't pull them out because the roots are under the fabric and the plant/weed is above. It's a pain.

The stuff I used was from HD or Lowe's, so maybe a professional quality fabric wouldn't do that.

FWIW.


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## eemichael83

I'm mainly using the fabric to keep the dirt/mud separate from the sand until I'm able to get all the flagstone down... that way if it rains again before I'm able to get it down, I wont have a mess. It will also serve to help hold the sand in and keep any grains of sand from washing through the cracks between edgers over time. I'm not worried about weeds... they'll have a very difficult time getting through 2" thick flagstone and mortar


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## cocobolo

gma2rjc said:


> Can I make a suggestion? Don't use the landscaping fabric.
> 
> Weeds still grow through it, but you can't pull them out because the roots are under the fabric and the plant/weed is above. It's a pain.
> 
> The stuff I used was from HD or Lowe's, so maybe a professional quality fabric wouldn't do that.
> 
> FWIW.


I don't know what kind of landscaping fabric you used Barb, but the stuff supplied out this way to the landscaping industry works like a charm. Lets water through and keeps weeds out. :yes:


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## shumakerscott

Your dog is thinking "I know that bone is some where around here" dd...


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## eemichael83

Well I havnt quite got the retaining wall finished but it was close enough for me to go ahead and order the flagstone and more sand.

So I went down to the local brick and block shop and told them I needed to order some flagstone and sand, and that I also needed to return the original caps (pictured previously). Well he ended up telling me that he couldnt take those back because they had to be special ordered for me. I was a little PO'd about that because I just wasnt happy with the way they looked, completely un-natural. But I decided not to say anything further about it because I dont think it would have led anywhere but south. So he starts pricing up the flagstone for 200sqft with about a 1/2 ton of sand. I had a price that I had in my head, based on the average price per sqft that I had seen. The stuff is 2" thick (range from 1.5-2.25") and was only... get this... $195/ton! So he figured up how many tons I would need for my 200sqft. Their conversion was 130sqft/ton so it came out to right at 1.5tons... only $292!!! Thats only $1.46/sqft. Hell the thin flagstone they had at Lowe's was over $7/sqft and it didnt look nearly as good and was only about an inch thick! So I was like, hell throw in another 100sqft worth and I'll do a damn flagstone sidewalk out to the pit too! So I got 2.3T flagstone and 1T sand DELIVERED to my house with tax for only $559. I can not believe it. Needless to say, there are no hard feelings about not being able to return the old caps


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## cocobolo

Look at it this way...you're happy with the deal on all your new stuff.

And you can always sell off what you don't want anyway.

Good luck with getting her all finished up.


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## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> Look at it this way...you're happy with the deal on all your new stuff.
> 
> And you can always sell off what you don't want anyway.
> 
> Good luck with getting her all finished up.


Thank you! The new supplies are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow and I'm taking the day off. I'm not sure I'll be able to sell off those caps, but I might be able to find some kind of use for them. Maybe I'll build a little dog house with the old caps as a concrete base or something. Anyway, I'm just hoping that their sqft estimation was correct. As I'm reading I'm seeing that 130sqft/ton is more like the approximation for the 1-1/4" flagstone. Mine is thicker, so maybe more realistically it is only 100-110 sqft/ton. Either way, I should have enough leftover to at least do some stepping stones out to the pit and it still ended up being a little cheaper than I originally thought it was going to be... it helped offset the cost of the wasted caps for sure and even the unexpected cost of the retaining wall.

I'll keep everyone posted as always and will snap some pics of the flagstone when I get it. Thanks for the encouragement :thumbup:


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## jomama45

Michael, things are looking good so far. :thumbup:

As for the cultured caps, that's not really uncommon for them not to accept the return, especially on non-stock accessories. Here, I can't even return stock material w/o a huge restocking fee.

Glad you found a deal at your local yard on the flag, that's actually a little cheaper than I get flag for here. Often times, folks just automatically think that the big boxes are cheaper w/o ever looking into it. It sounds like you not only got a better price, but more importantly, better value.

As for the coverage, I generally figure 80-100 sq. feet per ton for that thickness of flag. It really depends alot on the quality of stone that gets shipped to you. If you end up with a bunch of huge pieces that aren't condusive to the space, you may have a lot more waste.

Keep up the hard work, and find a way to put that dog to work in your favor! :laughing:


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## eemichael83

^Thanks very much for the comments. You've been a pretty big help throughout the project and I appreciate it.

On to today's progress!


















I finished placing and leveling the edgers and then I shoveled some dirt from the high and 'open' side to the low side to try and level it out a bit. Now she's all ready for the drain pipe and some sand


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## cocobolo

All Right! Now you're talking...what a difference!

I'm really looking forward to see how all that good flagstone looks.


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## eemichael83

Stone's here! Bright and early too! Guess I'll hit the McDonalds for some breakfast and then head to Home Depot for a few small items I need then get to work. I'll snap a couple of pic of the flagstone when I unwrap the plastic when I get back. Gonna be a long day


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## eemichael83

Well, I got the yard mowed and went out to get a few things to work on the pit today. I ended up having to take a few steps backward. The start and end of the edgers were off by about 3" in elevation. I guess it could have been worse over the course of about 40ft lol. So I found the section that started to slant upward (unlevel) and luckily it was the last 10 or 12 blocks that I had laid down. I pulled these up, dug out a little from under them, and laid them back down, only this time level lol. Now the start and end of the wall are at the same height  I've also had to take a break and come inside every half hour or so... its bee VERY hot.

SO, on to the actual progress for the day. I got the fabric down and the holes drilled for the drain. I also placed the pipe and put a little silicone around the connections, I still need to test this out by pouring water in the pit to make sure it doesnt leak around the pipe.



















And here is the first pic of the stone! It doesnt have much of the marbling that I seem to have remembered but it is quite colorful with shades of brown, red, and black.










I'll have better pics of the stone once I get some off the palet... its a pretty tall stack. I also picked up a large masonry chisel to cut the stones rather than using the diamond blade. This will give me a rougher edge at the cut that will look a little more natural.

Just tested the drain... works great, no leaks.


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## jomama45

2 more things:

- Keep the fire away from that pex, or sheild it somehow, or convert over to metal for the first few inches.

- Your chilising plan sounds good on the surface, but I highly doubt it will work out as planned. Odds are, that flag has seams/veins running through it's cross section. That makes it extremely difficult to chisel w/o breaking it into many pieces. I hope I'm wrong, but I saw every piece of flag we lay. What you can do is saw 2/3 of the way from the backside, and then hammer/chisel the front to get a somewhat irregular edge.

BTW, that flag looks very nice, much more uniform than what comes out of the ground here. Mind telling me where that stuff is originated from?


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## eemichael83

Jomama,

I was kindof assuming that the PEX would be OK since it only sets in the wall about a 1/4". The wall is almost a foot deep so there is around a foot until you get to the PEX. On top of that, I'll have about 3" of Egg Rock that the fire will sit on so there shouldnt be any direct heat at the hole.

I will probably try chiseling the first piece and if it doesnt work out, then I'll just scrap the idea and do as you suggest. I saw somewhere that someone said to lay a piece of angle iron under the line you are chiseling to keep pressure on where you're chiseling from the other side... maybe that will help. The only downside to sawing through 2/3 or so is that when I'm using it as the cap on the pit, you'll still see the sawn part of the edge.

I'm not really sure where the stone originated from. I'm in Bowling Green, KY though if it comes from nearby. I can ask the folks at the yard the next time I'm in there.


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## cocobolo

That does look like some nice stone there.

I also read about using the angle iron under the stone when you cut it, but I have never tried it. Anyway, you have two ways to try it now.

And in the end, are you going to have to worry too much about your drain line? I would think that there may not be that much heat at the bottom of the pit nearly a foot through the wall. And if for some reason it does fail, the water will just drain into the ground like it always has.

I guess your experience will tell us what transpires when the time comes. I sure hope it doesn't cause you any trouble.


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## eemichael83

Wow this stuff is really really heavy. I'm finished for the day, simply because I can't even get the top stone off the pallet. I'm going to either have to wait until someone can help me unload the stuff or I'm going to have to cut it while its still on the pallet. A little more progress for the day, put down most of the sand. I'll probably wait until after I get the cap finished on the pit before I put the rest of the sand down and level:










The stones are pretty dirty too so I wont know exactly what they look like till after I put them down and pressure wash them.


Cocobolo - the only reason I'm interested in keeping the pipe from leaking is the fear of too much water settling under the stones and then possibly freezing in the winter and expanding enough to crack the mortar that I'm going to put between the stones. I shouldnt have much trouble though since the sand base should allow any water under the patio to drain anyway.


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## cocobolo

eemichael83 said:


> Wow this stuff is really really heavy. I'm finished for the day, simply because I can't even get the top stone off the pallet. I'm going to either have to wait until someone can help me unload the stuff or I'm going to have to cut it while its still on the pallet. A little more progress for the day, put down most of the sand. I'll probably wait until after I get the cap finished on the pit before I put the rest of the sand down and level:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The stones are pretty dirty too so I wont know exactly what they look like till after I put them down and pressure wash them.
> 
> 
> Cocobolo - the only reason I'm interested in keeping the pipe from leaking is the fear of too much water settling under the stones and then possibly freezing in the winter and expanding enough to crack the mortar that I'm going to put between the stones. I shouldnt have much trouble though since the sand base should allow any water under the patio to drain anyway.


Well that certainly makes sense.

Now you need to go and hunt down your strongest buddy!


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## eemichael83

A friend offered some help, so I got the stones unloaded. After getting the top one off with some help, the rest werent too difficult to move by myself. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up killing a lot of grass by laying them out like this, but its pretty crappy grass and needs attention anyway so I dont care lol










Closeup of a few still on the pallet:


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## cocobolo

Love the colours in your stone. :thumbsup: 

It looks similar to the sandstone that we have here on this island. It appears to be sedimentary. Don't forget to ask the store next time you go there...several of us are interested.

Hey, if the grass doesn't like it, you can always plant green concrete!


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## shumakerscott

*Drain Screen*

Do you have a filter screen on your drain hole? I was considering that it could easily get clogged with ash ect... Just an observation, dorf dude...


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## eemichael83

^I didnt put a screen over it. If it ever gets clogged, I'll just put the 0-deg attachment on the pressure washer and shoot down the hole to unclog 

Well I got a nice little score today! The neighbors about 5-6 houses down had some logs and brush out front. I asked them if they were throwing it out and if they minded if I hauled some of it off for them. So here's what I was able to get.... there was quite a bit left but most of the remaining were odd shaped and too large for me to handle by myself or fit in the trunk (lined with towels of course!).



















They just need cleaned up a bit and possibly split.


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## eemichael83

Yesterday afternoon I finished filling the patio area with sand and started to lay down a few of the stones and level them. They say not to obsess with the pattern much but its pretty hard not to. :laughing:










I've got it covered right now because it is supposed to rain this afternoon. But if it doesnt, I'll get back out and lay some more down.


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## Scuba_Dave

Maybe I missed it...but is there going to be a path between the pit & house ?
It appears to be pretty far from the house...maybe just the pic
I think I'd want it closer to the house ?

Nice work :thumbup:
Wish I had an area I could put a setup like that


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## eemichael83

Scuba_Dave said:


> Maybe I missed it...but is there going to be a path between the pit & house ?
> It appears to be pretty far from the house...maybe just the pic
> I think I'd want it closer to the house ?
> 
> Nice work :thumbup:
> Wish I had an area I could put a setup like that


Thanks very much! If there is any flagstone left, I plan to do some sort of stepping stone path from the deck out to the firepit. It is a little ways out from the house, but I put it there becuase that area gets shade much earlier in the day that up near the house.

BTW, I'm really struggling with placement of these stones. I put some down, and go back and forth over wether I'm happy with where they are! Any suggestions or tips on placement? Also, should I cut the edge around the patio so it is a smooth even edge or should I leave it natural and jagged? I've got some placed that already have slight curves that fit the curve of the patio pretty nicely, but I'm not sure that the pieces that just happen to have that curve, look best lined up around the perimeter. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to at least cut the edges of the pit cap since its a much tighter circle and probably for a bit of a safety reason (sharp edges a foot or so off the ground). Thanks in advance for any tips and opinions :thumbup:


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## cocobolo

I just ran across a website with a photo gallery of tile stuff...and he has a few pix of something like what you are up to. You have to scroll down aways, but this fellow is really good. Might give you an idea or two.

http://www.arnzentile.com/photogallery.html


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## eemichael83

^ Wow, he is really really good.


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## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> Any suggestions or tips on placement?
> 
> Start sawing!!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Also, should I cut the edge around the patio so it is a smooth even edge or should I leave it natural and jagged?
> 
> 2 options IMO:
> - Leave the edges natural, and do both the FP cap and outside border of patio first, so you can utilize the best edges.
> - Cap the wall with a cap that matches the wall block, and butt the flag into the backside of cap. More sawing, but less fitting.
> 
> I've got some placed that already have slight curves that fit the curve of the patio pretty nicely, but I'm not sure that the pieces that just happen to have that curve, look best lined up around the perimeter. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to at least cut the edges of the pit cap since its a much tighter circle and probably for a bit of a safety reason (sharp edges a foot or so off the ground). Thanks in advance for any tips and opinions :thumbup:


Have you tried chiseling the stone yet? I doubt it will work well looking at the actual stone, but if it does, you will have more options on the FP cap.

I can't re-iterate enough, don't be scared to saw 2/3 of the way from the back and snap them at the face. You're going to need 10 ton of stone and a hell of alot of patience to piece this together w/o sawing 90% of the stone. 

Here's what works for me: Turn the artistic mind off and just start cutting like you're a robot. Try to think ahead to the next stone, and the one after that when placing. Don't work yourself into a situation were you have to cut un-natural pieces because you didn't use a little forsight. I know, easier said than done, but it can take years to get proficeint at natural stone work.


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## cocobolo

Wow...it looks dangerously like it to me that jomama just might have done this once or twice! Very nice indeed. :thumbsup:


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## eemichael83

I think I might go with option 1. I dont like the idea of those cheap edgers being visible from the top when I could have a nice natural looking stone. I was actually planning on taking your advice on sawing through 2/3, but I was mainly trying to reserve that for the inside cuts that will be covered with mortar and not the outer edge. It might end up looking better I cut the outer edge too though so there is a uniform curve. I guess my main problem is obsessing over the pattern. Things like, do I have too many large stones in this area, are the stones TOO large, are there too many shaped like a triangle in this area... stuff like that... its driving me nuts! :laughing:


----------



## jomama45

cocobolo said:


> Wow...it looks dangerously like it to me that jomama just might have done this once or twice! Very nice indeed. :thumbsup:


Thanks, maybe once or twice............. :whistling2:




eemichael83 said:


> I think I might go with option 1. I dont like the idea of those cheap edgers being visible from the top when I could have a nice natural looking stone. I was actually planning on taking your advice on sawing through 2/3, but I was mainly trying to reserve that for the inside cuts that will be covered with mortar and not the outer edge. *It might end up looking better I cut the outer edge too though so there is a uniform curve.* I guess my main problem is obsessing over the pattern. Things like, do I have too many large stones in this area, are the stones TOO large, are there too many shaped like a triangle in this area... stuff like that... its driving me nuts! :laughing:


 
I was actually thinking you should lay the outer edge first so you can leave a natural edge, but it's your's, and you doing the work, so you should do what pleases you. I just personally think if you're using stone in the first place, you should accept that the edge will be natural an by no means perfect. Just try to keep a somewhat uniform overhang around the whole thing, like something between 3/4" to 1 1/2".

Michael, don't sweat it, it WILL drive you crazy if you let it. I can guarantee from here that you'll be happy with the end product. Just try to turn your mind off and start SAWING! :laughing: 

BTW, in the pics I posted, I'd say we cut 95% of the stone in one way or another. No stone has immunity from the saw, except the revealed edge at the steps or caps. In the one pic of the curving wall cap, you can see I even cut the square corner stone after not finding what I needed. I just used a bushing hammer to get rid of the sawed edge.


----------



## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> I was actually thinking you should lay the outer edge first so you can leave a natural edge, but it's your's, and you doing the work, so you should do what pleases you. I just personally think if you're using stone in the first place, you should accept that the edge will be natural an by no means perfect.
> 
> This is exactly what I've done! Glad to hear I was at least on the right track from a pro's point of view. I'll snap a pick of the outer edge that I had so far on my lunch break. Then perhaps you could let me know if I need better size or shape variation along my outer edge.
> 
> I just used a bushing hammer to get rid of the sawed edge.
> 
> I may just try and to this as well!


Thanks again, I'll get that pic up of the outer edge so far and look forward to your feedback.


----------



## eemichael83

OK, pics for feedback 



















View standing on the pit:









So, do the pieces look ok the way they are? Or are some too big, too similar shaped, etc. I was thinking I would cut the edges (where the stones touch, not the part that hangs off the wall) so that they come together a little more than just at a point. I was also thinking I would probably cut that one really large piece a little bit.


----------



## jomama45

eemichael83 said:


> OK, pics for feedback
> 
> So, do the pieces look ok the way they are? Or are some too big, too similar shaped, etc. *I was thinking I would cut the edges (where the stones touch, not the part that hangs off the wall) so that they come together a little more than just at a point.* I was also thinking I would probably cut that one really large piece a little bit.


 
Thats exactly what I would do. :yes:

Lets see if this works : Red lines are what I would cut in this example for sure.










The green line is approximate, and the only reason I would cut it is that you probably won't find a piece that sharp that will fit, or even look right. You could easily find a stone that fits well against the blue line, and that's where you would cut/trim your green line. :thumbsup:


----------



## eemichael83

^ WOW, I really appreciate the effort you put towards that. Those ones in the sand that arn't along the edge, I just kinda tossed in to get some of them out of the grass. But yes, I will definitely get to *sawing :laughing:* this afternoon and see what I can come up with. I'll post a pic again tonight once I'm finished.


----------



## eemichael83

Finished cutting all of the pieces that I had laid out around the edge. I leveled about 5 of them when I stopped because I realized I may need to make a couple more cuts later when I place the other stones next to them. It started getting late, so I called it a day. Here are the pics of the pieces that were cut:

Overall:









Top views:



























Maybe I'll have more progress tomorrow! Oh BTW, I meant to ask what kind of gap I should leave between pieces for mortar?


----------



## jomama45

:thumbsup:


eemichael83 said:


> Maybe I'll have more progress tomorrow! Oh BTW, I meant to ask what kind of gap I should leave between pieces for mortar?


 
The gaps look great, maybe a bit tight for mortar, but pics can be decieving. We generally shoot for 1/2 - 3/4" for grouted joint. You will have areas that get a little bigger, but that's fine as well IMO.

Just a few ideas. Sorry, I'm not trying to be critical by any means, but my mind is trained to piece stuff like this together when I see it......... :laughing:

Red lines are things *I* would cut, just to make the continuing stone placement easier. Yellow lines are merely a little direction on your next stones, but that can vary greatly depending on what you have to work with.

Keep up the good work Michael!


----------



## eemichael83

Progress is slooooowww. I also ended up finding a small sand leak after a very hard rain that I had to fix. I assume that after I get all the stone down and mortared up, I wont have those kinds of problems due to the rain not directly hitting the sand and the water mostly staying out of that area.

I managed to snap this pic before the camera fogged completely up and became useless:










Its hard to tell at this point, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to have enough stone to finish the patio and the cap!


----------



## cocobolo

Hats off to you eem, that looks great!:thumbsup:


----------



## gma2rjc

The colors are beautiful and the pieces look great pieced together that way. 

Now I'm _really_ excited to see it finished!


----------



## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> Hats off to you eem, that looks great!:thumbsup:


Thank you 



gma2rjc said:


> The colors are beautiful and the pieces look great pieced together that way.
> 
> Now I'm _really_ excited to see it finished!


Thank you too! I'm really liking the colors too after I was able to wash the dirt of with the hose and actually see them :laughing:

I'm really hoping to make quite a bit of progress this weekend but it is supposed to rain a bit. I figure after I get a pretty large section done, I'll level the pieces and try and pack the sand under them as qood as possible, then mix up some mortar and let that section set up.


----------



## cocobolo

It's a shame and all that you seem to be getting so much rain...but don't complain too loudly. We are desperate for some rain here. Latest is that we _might_ get a shower or two in two weeks!


----------



## Dinggus

Can I ask where you got the idea on how to build this? It looks awesome, I'd love to have one in the future.


----------



## eemichael83

Dinggus said:


> Can I ask where you got the idea on how to build this? It looks awesome, I'd love to have one in the future.


A coworker told me that if I had a firepit, I'd never want a house without one again. So I started to think about how nice it might be to sit around a nice crackling fire on a cool night throughout the spring and fall and it just seemed like a great idea. He also said you can sit around it in the winter with just short sleeves on and still be plenty warm. I also thought it might be cool to use it as a BBQ pit during the summer by using one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...=110535182474&ff4=263602_263622#ht_2143wt_869

Here's a little update. I've been able to work on it a little bit on a couple of different days. Today, there was one piece that I was really struggling to find. I finally found one with a shape that would work well... I marked it, cut it about half way through, started tapping it lightly with the hammer and fractures started appearing everywhere... finally it just exploded into many many pieces. Thats when I quit for the day :laughing:




























These pieces are wet in the pics btw, I took the pics after rinsing all the dust off of them from cutting. Also, I think it will look better and more uniform once they're all leveled and there is mortar between them. I'm still doubting whether or not I have enough stone to complete this never ending project lol


----------



## eemichael83

Pulled the plastic off on my lunch break and snapped a couple of pics. The stone is dry in these...




























I think I'll probably start working on the cap now so that I can quit fooling with the plastic cover everytime theres a chance of rain. Its going to be hard fitting pieces around the actual pit with that plastic bunched up around it anyway.

Also, the pit is quite a bit shorter now that the ground around it is level lol


----------



## cocobolo

You know, for a young feller who was so impatient to get this done at the beginning you are doing one helluva great job!

I imagine by now, that you have a new found appreciation for stonemasons. Nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems.

If you keep this quality of work up in all that you do, you will have a house that you can be truly proud of.

I'm going to wait patiently as you work your way toward the end of this "Not-so-little" project.

Lots of us are watching quietly in the wings, and we are all hoping for your success. So good luck from me!


----------



## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> You know, for a young feller who was so impatient to get this done at the beginning you are doing one helluva great job!
> 
> I imagine by now, that you have a new found appreciation for stonemasons. Nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems.
> 
> If you keep this quality of work up in all that you do, you will have a house that you can be truly proud of.
> 
> I'm going to wait patiently as you work your way toward the end of this "Not-so-little" project.
> 
> Lots of us are watching quietly in the wings, and we are all hoping for your success. So good luck from me!


Wow I really appreciate that. I've put in quite a bit of hard work on it and it makes me happy that others can appreciate the work I've put into it and are enjoying the outcome. It wasn't really that I was impatient, but mostly that I completely underestimated how long something like this would take. My first project for the year was the addition to the deck and that only took 2 weeks which included doing all the landscaping and installing a watertight outlet under the old portion of the deck for the fountain. So I figured the pit and the patio would only take maybe 3-4weeks. I was way off. 

"Nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems."- understatement of the year :laughing:

Hopefully you wont have to be much more patient... I got to work on the cap today and was able to cut up and lay down about 1/3 of it in only 2-2.5 hours. I think a full day (probably sunday) and I'll be able to have it done. I worked until it got dark out so I wasnt able to snap any pics.


----------



## cocobolo

You need to watch that working until dark stuff...I get caught doing that all the time. 

At least you're smart enough to wait until tomorrow to take the pix! I'm usually too impatient and take them then and there. The flash pix never come out that well.

Like I said...I'll be watching!!! :yes:


----------



## eemichael83

A little update while I cool off from the crazy heat outside:



















I havn't had to cut any of the outside edges yet, only the inside edges... I've been lucky.


----------



## cocobolo

No, no, no...that's not luck...that's pure skill.

And so when will the invitations be going out for the inaugural event?


----------



## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> No, no, no...that's not luck...that's pure skill.
> 
> And so when will the invitations be going out for the inaugural event?


lol Still going to be a little longer yet. Heres where I finished the day:


----------



## cocobolo

Well, this is starting to look very impressive indeed. You had a good day today I would say! :yes:


----------



## eemichael83

Got the rest of the cap cut but havn't had enough time to start on the mortar yet. Theres a chance of rain every day the rest of the week but we'll see if it lets up enough so I can at least finish the cap up.


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## jomama45

Looking good Michael! :thumbsup:

Sooooooooo, how close have you and the saw/grinder gotten in the last few weeks??????? :whistling2:


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## cocobolo

Oooooohhhh, that is REALLY NICE! Great job!


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## gma2rjc

That is beautiful. Looks like a pro did it.


----------



## Ivy

Looks GREAT!!! I'm impressed! :thumbsup:


----------



## eemichael83

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the compliments. Its not done yet though! It didnt rain today so I was able to get a little work in on it. I was able to get about half of it mortared, which doesnt include the grout. I believe I can have the cap done with just two more of these short days. I'll wait until the cap is grouted to post the pic.

Jomama... It might as well be glued to my hands on most days :laughing:


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## Scuba_Dave

Nice jigsaw puzzle :thumbsup:
Lookin good


----------



## eemichael83

It rained yesterday so I took a half day today. I've got the cap level and mortared... I'm going to start, and hopefully finish, on the grout in about 30 min once I'm done cooling off. Stay tuned for pics :thumbup:


----------



## eemichael83

I ALMOST got the cap completed today. I've got everything done except for a few gaps between stones where it hangs off the edge and a couple of places underneath the stone where it meets the veneer on the outside. The gaps between stones where it hangs off have been a bit tricky since they mortar falls through. I did manage to come up with a system of using packaging tape and a small thin flat stone to fill these areas in. I start by putting tape underneath the gap to catch mortar... I butt the flat stone underneath for more initial support, then squirt the mortar in with the grout bag. After that I sit the bag down, and work the mortar in a bit with my thumb. After a minute or so, I'm able to remove the stone from underneath and let the tape hold it while it finishes setting. BTW, the mortar took almost no time to set in most places since the stones were so hot.

I would have finished today but the clouds started rolling in pretty heavy and just after I took these pics and covered up the work, its started raining. It has since stopped though, so I might finish it up this afternoon.

On with the pics!


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## cocobolo

Very (repeat two or three hundred times) nice! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> Very (repeat two or three hundred times) nice! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Thank you very much 

Now I'm just hoping that I can get the patio part cut up and grouted quicker than I have been so I can start enjoying it.


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## eemichael83

FIRE PIT DONE! Mowed the yard today and finished up the cap and fire pit. I am more than happy with the result too! I'm really surprised 

All that is left now is the patio....


----------



## jomama45

The cap looks absolutely fantastic Michael. :thumbsup: I'd be proud ot say I did the work.

The inside radius looks great, what did you do to finish off the edge of the stones?

BTW, on the ends where you were having problems (and for future reference for anyone else), you want to "butter" each stone with a small trowel to get a little mortar stuck to them first. As long as you don't use much force when bagging the rest in, or when jointing, they will hold fine.


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## Scuba_Dave

That looks great
What did you use to coat the firebrick to make it black ?


----------



## eemichael83

jomama45 said:


> The cap looks absolutely fantastic Michael. :thumbsup: I'd be proud ot say I did the work.
> 
> The inside radius looks great, what did you do to finish off the edge of the stones?
> 
> BTW, on the ends where you were having problems (and for future reference for anyone else), you want to "butter" each stone with a small trowel to get a little mortar stuck to them first. As long as you don't use much force when bagging the rest in, or when jointing, they will hold fine.


Thank you very much  For the inside, I cut the curve with the saw, then I took a regular hammer and chipped away at it to break up the smooth edge. I'll take a closeup pic or it tomorrow if it isnt raining.



Scuba_Dave said:


> That looks great
> What did you use to coat the firebrick to make it black ?


I used some high temp spray paint. It is usually used for grills and stuff like that. Here is the stuff I used: http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=112


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## gma2rjc

Beautiful job! 

Don't tell your friends and neighbors you made it, they'll all want one in their backyards. :laughing:

The black paint inside looks great!


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## no1hustler

Looks great!


----------



## oatlord

Awesome fire pit! Definitely makes me wish I had one. But since I don't, I'll admire yours. Any updates yet?


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## eemichael83

oatlord said:


> Awesome fire pit! Definitely makes me wish I had one. But since I don't, I'll admire yours. Any updates yet?


Thank you. I went on vacation about 10 days so I havn't gotten a whole lot done. I did manage to make some progress towards the end of last week and yesterday.










I believe once I get all the pieces cut, I'll have to figure something out for leveling the patio a bit better. In one direction it is level: 










But about 90 deg around, it looks like this:









The left part slopes down a bit. Really not a big deal, and most people probably wouldn't notice it, but the lowest edge is probably around 1.5-2" lower than the rest of the level area. It might actually help with preventing the patio from holding water though... I'll just have to see how I like it whenever I get all the pieces cut. BTW, I'm now certain that I'll have to order more stone... shouldnt be much though, maybe a ton more at the most (~$200 + shipping) Since shipping will be $50, I'll probably go ahead and order enough to make a decent stepping stone path out to the pit... which was the original intention anyway.


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## cocobolo

...if you hadn't told us, we would never have known.

Might be easier to do the leveling now, rather than later. You might try running a couple of string lines across the offending area to give you a reference point...or use a long 2 x 4. Just anything to let you know how close you are to level.


----------



## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> ...if you hadn't told us, we would never have known.
> 
> Might be easier to do the leveling now, rather than later.


It's actually a bit easier to tell in person than in the pic, buts its not terrible. Its only really noticeable at certain angles. I think I'm going to try and get all the cutting out of the way so I never have to see that saw again! Then I'll just pull away the outer stones and raise the area as much as needed, then fill the rest with sand until level. I still have about 7 or 8 of the pavers left so I'll probably end up using those.

I got a bit more done today, the patio is around half done now. I'll probably order more stone mid-week.


----------



## eemichael83

Got more stone today... and more pics!


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## eemichael83

Finally got all the stones cut! All that is left now is to level everything and mortar it up.




























Im still not exactly sure how I'm going to approach leveling this. I *think* I might be taking the top row of the retaining wall blocks and trimming about an inch or two off the tops since I accidentally made the retaining wall just slightly too tall. Once I get a string level on it tomorrow I'll know a little better where I stand.


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## gma2rjc

Wow! It sure is beautiful! I hope you and your family and friends really enjoy this each time you sit around the fire.

Do you think you'll get to work on the path this season?

Barb


----------



## eemichael83

gma2rjc said:


> Wow! It sure is beautiful! I hope you and your family and friends really enjoy this each time you sit around the fire.
> 
> Do you think you'll get to work on the path this season?
> 
> Barb


I plan on laying the left over stones where the path will be. It's mainly going to be just a stepping stone path with grass between. I dont plan on digging and burying them to make them ground level until next spring though.

Today I finished leveling all of the stones. I didnt end up having to do anything with the retaining wall. So now all that is left is mortar! :thumbup:


----------



## Jim F

Looks like you are close to finished. Will you have it up and running before winter? I would love to have something like that in my back yard. We tend to get by on the store bought kind. Maybe if we end up staying long-term in our current house and I get everything else fixed up in the house. It looks like you learned a lot along the way. Looks great! That stone veneer makes it look really classy.


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## cocobolo

I say you've done a first class job there EE.

If you put the remaining pavers on the grass now for your pathway...you might find that by next spring you won't need to dig them in. They will have a tendency to settle as you walk on them.

Great job. :thumbsup:


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## CoconutPete

Awesome work!!!


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## eemichael83

I'm probably a little more than half done with the mortar now and I'm pretty happy with the result so far  The pictures are a tad on the dark side, but when I'm done with it, I will take a few good shots and maybe an HDR shot of it.


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## shumakerscott

When are you going to light a fire in it? :whistling2:


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## cocobolo

It was quite bit sunnier when I took the same pic...take a look.


----------



## eemichael83

shumakerscott said:


> When are you going to light a fire in it? :whistling2:


Probably this weekend or the next. My parents would like to come down and be there for the first fire so it'll be on a weekend that they're able to make it down.



cocobolo said:


> It was quite bit sunnier when I took the same pic...take a look.


lol, did someone tweak the exposure setting in iPhoto??


----------



## eemichael83

Here was my first attempt at the walking path:









I mainly just wanted to lay the stones along what the path will be to get an idea of how wide I can make the path and how tight together I can place the stones. It was real hard to tell with them all scattered but now I have a pretty good idea on what I'm working with.

I'm thinkin I'll end up with the same shape, but it will be a bit wider towards the deck steps and more uniform width through the entire walkway instead of starting narrown and getting really wide.

On a side note... I got this today 


















It is made of real Maple and Walnut wood!


----------



## eemichael83

FINALLY! I'm done! But you will all have to wait on the pics :laughing:


----------



## gma2rjc

Okay, we've waited an hour. That's long enough. 

lol

Looking forward to seeing them.


----------



## no1hustler

Yup, I'm ready to see it now.


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## cocobolo

...it's not like we're waiting for an airplane you know...that I can understand waiting a few hours or even days. C'mon, c'mon...give already! :whistling2:


----------



## eemichael83

lol I havnt taken them yet. I'm going to borrow a nice camera and try to get a few better shots than I'm able with my dinky point and shoot. I'll have some up this weekend.


----------



## eemichael83

I couldn't resist and took some pics on my lunch break 




























All the patterns:




































She's level









Later today or tomorrow, I think I'll probably go through the receipts that I had and what I remember that I purchased and tally it all up so others that might want to try this can know what to expect for cost.


----------



## no1hustler

Looks great! I think if it were me, I'd remove the sod under each of the stepping stone so it would be a nice snug fit. That way it would be easier to take the mower over and you'd have less of a chance to twist an ankle. But, it would be a ton of work.


----------



## eemichael83

no1hustler said:


> Looks great! I think if it were me, I'd remove the sod under each of the stepping stone so it would be a nice snug fit. That way it would be easier to take the mower over and you'd have less of a chance to twist an ankle. But, it would be a ton of work.


I'm actually going to shuffle the stepping stones around a bit. I just placed them that way to get an idea of how much material I had left for making the path (how wide I could make it and how tightly together I could lay them). Before, they were just scattered around and I had no idea if I would even have enough to make a path. I'm told if I just leave them where I want them, they'll settle enough to be almost flush with the ground as you were saying.


----------



## DangerMouse

Pic #6 roflmao

DM


----------



## gma2rjc

If you let the stones sit where they are for a while they'll kill the grass underneath. In the spring you can lift them and dig out only the dead grass, put some stones and sand in there for drainage and you'll be good to go.

If you leave them, yes they'll eventually sink down to the level of the grass. But they'll continue sinking and your grass will start moving in over the edges.

That looks really nice with the path going to the deck like that.


----------



## Jim F

I wouldn't think those stones will sink perfectly flush to the ground. I've laid stone paths out out of necessity to overcome a muddy path to my house and they do settle somewhat and stabilize. However, by spring you will have a better idea of what you do want to do with them between setting them on earth or settling them into some sort of paving substrate. The main consideration is that they are not hazardous to walk on. Elderly visitors to your place may want to walk alongside the stone path on the grass until you are sure they are stable and not a trip hazard.


----------



## eemichael83

Today I was able to rearrange the stone walking path and split the wood 




























Now I just need to put together those adirondack chairs and put a fire in there!


----------



## agbrisco

*Inspiring!*

Your firepit looks awesome! You have inspired me to re-do my firepit. I did mine about a year ago & it looked only OK. I have since busted off all of the stone & flagstone on top and am in the middle of re-doing it now.

I LOVE the look of your flagstone & was able to fine something somewhat similar here in California at Silverado Building Materials (Sacramento). I purchased it today (Sonora Gold, I believe), and was able to lay down the flagstone (top) today. It's been a long day, but it's going to be SO worth it when I'm done.

Thanks for the inspiration


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## cocobolo

OK then...now you're talking! That path looks excellent.

You know, when the Japanese lay rocks for pathways in their gardens, you need to look down at the rocks as you walk. You may arrive at a junction in the pathway where you can stop for a few seconds to look up. It is usually at these locations that there is something special to view.

I know your path is wide open...but you never know what interesting landscaping you might introduce in future. Just a little tidbit to keep in mind.


----------



## Ivy

Great job!!! I love it!


----------



## eemichael83

agbrisco said:


> Your firepit looks awesome!
> 
> Thanks for the inspiration


Thank you and you're welcome! You'll have to post up some pics of yours when you get done :thumbup:


----------



## kredman

Awesome.


----------



## shumakerscott

Are you ever going to light a fire in it. :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## agbrisco

*Pix of my fire-place - thanks for the inspiration!*



eemichael83 said:


> Thank you and you're welcome! You'll have to post up some pics of yours when you get done :thumbup:


Just finished the fire pit today! I am so happy I found this thread as it gave me great ideas & finally pushed me over the edge to re-do my fire pit! The old fire pit had 3-rivers flagstone and river rock on the sides. Here's a couple of pix 

(*before and during demolition*):










During demolition:










And now - the new and improved fire pit! With Eldorado Bluffstone (Bodega) on the sides, and Sonoran Gold flagstone on top:











Can't help it... the "wet-look" is awesome.. Love the colour of the stone!










And a side shot:


----------



## eemichael83

shumakerscott said:


> Are you ever going to light a fire in it. :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


One of these days. Literally the day I got it finished, the county went under fire ban and that wont be lifted until there is some rain. Theres is absolutely no rain in the 10 day forcast so... 



agbrisco said:


> And now - the new and improved fire pit! With Eldorado Bluffstone (Bodega) on the sides, and Sierra (or Sonoma) Gold flagstone on top


That looks really good :thumbup: I like that stone you used for the outside wall, it looks pretty sharp. Man you sure got that together in a hurry! As you can see, it took me quite a bit longer lol.


----------



## no1hustler

agbrisco, the new one looks far better. Good job!


----------



## JSBshade

Very nice fire pits
One day I may build one
I like the stone look


----------



## Jim F

Does a fire pit like that need draft ventilation? And what do you do for drainage?


----------



## eemichael83

Jim F said:


> Does a fire pit like that need draft ventilation? And what do you do for drainage?


I dont *think* ventilation will be a problem, but I havnt had a friggin fire in it yet to tell :laughing:

As far as drainage: http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/stone-veneer-firepit-71777/index5/#post474185

I used a 12" masonry bit and drilled through the wall at the very bottom on the low side, then ran that tubing through another hole in my retaining wall. In hindsight, I would have probably put a drain and pipe in the center of the pit that would run under the footer, but before I had even thought about it, I had already poured the footer and let it set up.


----------



## agbrisco

I haven't noticed any issues with ventalation or drainage. My fire pit is about 44" wide, so as long as I don't have a couple of tree trunks in there, my bundle of wood has plenty of air. Not only that, but it's only about 12-14" tall.

As for drainage - hasn't been a problem for me - it's just dirt below. We don't get torrential rains here in CA. Each night I use the fire pit, I use a garden hose to put out the glowing embers. By the next night, it's dry enough to use...


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## eemichael83

Well I havn't been able to put a fire in it yet due to the fire ban, but there is a good chance of rain the next couple of days. In the meantime, I put the adirondack chairs together and stained them. I also started on getting rid of the massive pile of sand I had left over.



















Chairs were purchased several months ago and were on sale for only $29ea at Ace Hardware. I got a small can of Olympic Canyon Brown Toner for about $12 to make them look nice. :thumbup:


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## no1hustler

Wow, that is a bargain! Looks great.


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## gma2rjc

They look great! Nice color too!

I hope you get to have a fire pretty soon. Do a rain dance. :laughing:


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## cocobolo

Next thing you know it will be raining for six months and you won't even be able to go outside without a slicker on!

Nice chairs...and what a bargain! And you even picked a colour to go with your fire pit! :thumbsup:

Man, what a difference a little furniture makes around that fire pit. Why don't you put some flickering lights in there and _pretend_ you're having a fire. :thumbup:


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## eemichael83

BURN BAN LIFTED!!!

Going to put a small fire in it tonight to break it in


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## cocobolo

eemichael83 said:


> BURN BAN LIFTED!!!
> 
> Going to put a small fire in it tonight to break it in


Man, that's been a long time coming. So I guess we will see the pics later on. Are you hiring some belly dancers for the occasion?


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## eemichael83

cocobolo said:


> Man, that's been a long time coming. So I guess we will see the pics later on. Are you hiring some belly dancers for the occasion?


:laughing: it HAS been a long time coming. Nah no belly dancers... just a couple cans of cold beer :thumbup:


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## cocobolo

eemichael83 said:


> :laughing: it HAS been a long time coming. Nah no belly dancers... just a couple cans of cold beer :thumbup:


OK then...that's the next best thing...:thumbup:


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## BigJim

gma2rjc said:


> They look great! Nice color too!
> 
> I hope you get to have a fire pretty soon. Do a rain dance. :laughing:


I agree looks fantastic,:thumbsup:


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## Jim F

Still waiting to see how a fire looks in this thing.


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## gma2rjc

Wait a month or so and you'll be able to roast chestnuts over an open fire while you're singing the song and watching for :santa:.

:yes:


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## Bootz

Anything new with this project??? this is really an awesome piece of work! I really like the amount of detail that went into the crafting of it... looks like you had some help with a certain Chow that showed up in the pictures lol :no: Great work!~


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## oatlord

I feel like I won't have closure in my life until I see pictures of a fire in this pit.


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## gma2rjc

oatlord said:


> I feel like I won't have closure in my life until I see pictures of a fire in this pit.


:laughing:


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## Bootz

oatlord said:


> I feel like I won't have closure in my life until I see pictures of a fire in this pit.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yea I think I have dreams about this now... They need a smiley face holding a sign asking for pictures


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## eemichael83

oatlord said:


> I feel like I won't have closure in my life until I see pictures of a fire in this pit.


:laughing: I really cracked up at this. I've had a few fires in there... problem is, we're only allowed to have open fires between 6pm and 6am right now. Since the only times I'm able to have a fire it is dark out, I dont think pics would turn out too well. I'll give it a try the next time I get a good fire going.

Btw, its been raining quite a bit and I havn't been able to build a covered log rack yet, so the fires I've been able to start have been somewhat puny with the wet wood and all. It's still nice listening to the crackling and hissing (hissing comes with the steaming water in the wood)


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## Jim F

Looking forward to it. I just got the last of the lawn furniture in as the first real snowfall of the season was getting underway. Five inches on the ground and cold now. I refuse to put up the outdoor lights until it warms up a little. You are luck to have a more moderate climate there.


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## Bootz

Jim F said:


> Looking forward to it. I just got the last of the lawn furniture in as the first real snowfall of the season was getting underway. Five inches on the ground and cold now. I refuse to put up the outdoor lights until it warms up a little. You are luck to have a more moderate climate there.


Yea I heard you got slammed by the lake effect snows early this year  Hope your weathering well there Jim... Got any projects on the way ? Sorry there eemicheal dont mean to hijack your thread :whistling2:


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## Jim F

Bootz said:


> Yea I heard you got slammed by the lake effect snows early this year  Hope your weathering well there Jim... Got any projects on the way ? Sorry there eemicheal dont mean to hijack your thread :whistling2:


Always something to do. Hope to get these lights up. Just need it to warm up a little. We usually have a day of mild weather on the Thanksgiving weekend but not this year.


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## SirGSS

Any luck getting some pictures of a fire in action, yet? I just chewed through this entire thread, and I have to say, I'm mighty curious.

Beautiful job, by the way, eem. Hats off, sir! :thumbsup:


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## joeg679

Great job on the fire fit. I also got 2 of those chairs from Ace last year and have been looking for more ever since. They are actually pretty good quality and definitely worth the price.


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## Knucklez

seriously, no pictures with a fire? i mean, i can't complain because i leave all my projects 95% completed too lol .. but geez.. this is an amazing thread, you gotta finish it off iwth a fire photo!

thanks for the share, you will be an inspiration for many.

Knucklez


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## eemichael83

Drumroll please......




























Just took these last night. This was toward the beginning of the fire so it was a little on the smaller side. After about 30 min or so I had some pretty good sized logs in there and the fire was bigger but at that point it started to get too dark for any decent pics.


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## oatlord

So nice, so nice...

What stone did you use in the middle of the pit? Just bags of stone from Lowe's or Home Depot?


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## eemichael83

oatlord said:


> So nice, so nice...
> 
> What stone did you use in the middle of the pit? Just bags of stone from Lowe's or Home Depot?


Yep, just some 2-3" Egg Rock from Lowes.


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## scotzilla

awesome!!! very inspiring. Job well done!!


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## Jim F

I googled this and there are a lot of people out there giving half-assed advice on how to go about this. Congrats on doing a good job. Any reflections, regrets, things you might have done differently? That might a good way to conclude this project thread. 

I plan on doing the same but mine are still ongoing, even the downstairs bathroom is not completed, just on hold.


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## jomama45

Michael

I had forgotten about this project, glad to look at the pictures again.

As a mason who's done a fair amount of flagstone work myself, I have to say you did a PHENOMENAL JOB on the joints and fitting! I'd give you an A+, and offer you a job if we did more of this work, and you were closer of course..........:thumbsup:


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## eemichael83

Jim F said:


> Any reflections, regrets, things you might have done differently? That might a good way to conclude this project thread.


Well having had the experience now, it would probably be easier to more accurately predict the amount of materials that I would need for this or a similar job. Because of how much slope the land had to it, a significant portion of the low side of the pit (chimney part) was actually covered with sand and then flagstone. I probably could have gotten away with a box or two less of the stone veneer. Since I also ended up filling the inside of the pit with a large amount of egg rock, I probably could have also gotten away with maybe half the fire brick and refractory cement and just used some half cinder block in the bottom half and then the fire brick on top for the top half. That would have cut the cost by $100+. I would have also 'liked' to have had about another foot radius on the patio. It is comfortably big enough now, but it would be nice to have that extra 1' all the way around the pit to pull the chair away further if you wanted or to have plenty of room to walk through with someone sitting there too, but that would have added back into the cost and the amount of time and work I would have had to put into it.

Also, as others had mentioned about half way through the thread, putting a drain in first may have been easier than drilling one after the fact. The drilled drain works great though, I've never had any standing water and we've had crazy amounts of rain here lately so no problems there. Since I've raised the fire up by filling the pit with egg rock, there is also no ventilation problems whatsoever. This isn't the reason I raised the fire though... I did that so that the heat could radiate outward. When I tried a couple of fires in the winter, the heat was mainly just above the pit. The fire was just a bit too deep in the pit for the heat to radiate outward.

One other thing worth noting is that the pit portion held up very well through the winter. No cracks at all in the mortar or veneer. The concrete base must have been sufficient. Not surprisingly, the patio portion did have some cracking in the joints. It still looks great, but the crack is there even though in most places its not noticeable. I expected this since the foundation is sand and it will swell when the ground or any moisture under there freezes and then settle.

BTW, I'm not actually 'finished'. I'm currently working on the walking path 










I'm about 1/3 done with it. Like the pit, it is also a bit of a pain to dig for the rock and then get the rock to not wobble by shifting the dirt underneath. I've been putting down that weed blocking fabric and filling the voids with pea gravel.


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## eemichael83

Here is a midway pic:









I've been piling up the shoveled dirt around the pavers of the patio and I'm going to end up planting some flowers or something in it to attract the batterflies and rabbits


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## Ivy

Looks beautiful! You did a great job!


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## Ironlight

I was admiring your adirondeck chairs (in addition to admiring your handiwork) and after a little hunting I found them online at an eye-poppingly low price. Are they pretty sturdy and well made?


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## eemichael83

Ironlight said:


> I was admiring your adirondeck chairs (in addition to admiring your handiwork) and after a little hunting I found them online at an eye-poppingly low price. Are they pretty sturdy and well made?


Thanks, and yes, the ones that I got are well made. The folding part is very convenient.


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## eemichael83

Got my walkway done! Pics kinda came out odd looking because it was starting to get dark out but oh well.










In this pic, some of the pea gravel is wet and some of it isn't so it doesn't really look 'even' but when it all dries it looks much nicer.










Here you can see where I piled up the dirt around the pit to hide the pavers. I left this spot open because that is where it drains. The left side I had done a couple weeks ago and planted grass seed. The grass is already starting to come up. The right side was just done today.










So glad to be done with it. Now I can enjoy it!


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## scotzilla

awesome again- i jest re read this thread again to get more inspiration to get outta bed and start mine.


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## Justin8152000

That looks great! Awesome job!


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## Giroux68

Wow...That is some amazing work. Well done and thanks for documenting so well. I am inspired, my firepit is just a hole in the ground.


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## kimberland30

What an amazing fire pit! Dinner tonight will have to wait because I've spent the last hour reading this thread from start to finish. Husband came in while I was looking at the finished pictures and he said "My God woman...now what have you found for me to do?". Fortunately for him, I have other things that need to get taken care of before I can even think of starting a project like yours.

You did an amazing job and thank you so much for posting your progress and questions. That will be a great help to the rest of us that dream about doing a project like this in our own yards. :thumbup:


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## mgp roofing

Nice work!


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## mynewstores

Very nice work...I might add some cushions to the adirondack chairs.


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## DerWookie

eemichael83 said:


> ^I didnt put a screen over it. If it ever gets clogged, I'll just put the 0-deg attachment on the pressure washer and shoot down the hole to unclog
> 
> Well I got a nice little score today! The neighbors about 5-6 houses down had some logs and brush out front. I asked them if they were throwing it out and if they minded if I hauled some of it off for them. So here's what I was able to get.... there was quite a bit left but most of the remaining were odd shaped and too large for me to handle by myself or fit in the trunk (lined with towels of course!).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They just need cleaned up a bit and possibly split.


Beautiful Shiba Inu, Looks just like our female Aiko. We have two.


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## eemichael83

DerWookie said:


> Beautiful Shiba Inu, Looks just like our female Aiko. We have two.


Good eye, and thank you! I love my shiba


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## paulnixon

In the back yard project i saw another project on the net,and i found the landscaping with stone veneer is another option. You can create a wonder full thing with landscaping with stone veneer.for the stone veneer there is no hardness. Installation is simple - just measure carefully cut the material with ordinary woodworking tools, and the adjustment of the panels together. It's like a puzzle! Use glue to attach plywood panels to the wall, then use a caulking gun to seal the seams. It is also a good idea to use screw fasteners to hold the stone veneer panels more efficiently. These panels work indoors and outdoors. They also make great garden accents for your outdoor spaces.


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## Headstill

You did a fantastic job in this I hope it gets used daily! I am writing in hopes for a DIY answer or 2. I too have built a fire pit but took it in a different direction. I have been working on this for the last 2 months. I am a tradesman by profession but do not do any masonry work (I hire in). I only say this as I have tackled may projects and accomplished them with great success.

So my question is about fire block and if it has to be used. I have constructed a 48" x 48" O.D. fire pit out of cinder block approx 4' high. This is standing on a 5'x5'x 6" poured slab. I turned one block on it's side for ventilation and cleaning purposes. At the 4th layer of cinder block (CMU), I ran 15 pieces of rebar across the pit for a base to build the fires on. I then ran two more layers of CMU to finish the walls if the pit. I am now ready to put the stone veneer tile on the outside of the CMU and having some granite cut for the top of the structure. I have built a few fires (3) already and tested out this concept. Upon doing a closer inspection of the CMU, I am noticing some very fine cracks on the outer sides of the cinder block. I assumed this was from the expansion of the block from the inner to the outer sides. What my concern is that before I put this granite and stone veneer on the outsides of this structure, do I need to do something else to this "pit" to prevent long term damage to the cinder block? I would like to keep the I.D. at 32 " x "32 but realize that I may have to bend in order to make this structure sound for the long term. OH, ...ooops, I just read this and forgot one detail, I have built a deck around this entire structure (which is why it is so high). 

So, does anyone have any experience with using cinder block (CMU) as the only means of containing the fire?

I will upload pictures soon,

thanks in advance to anyone that can help me.

Steve


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## Headstill

*picture of my firepit project*

Here it is, any advice?


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## jomama45

Headstill said:


> Here it is, any advice?


Yes, either line it with firebrick, or don't burn in it. Concrete block WILL NOT withstand the heat produced by wood fires for long, especially when the interior is so small and the fire is so close to the walls. You can use "split" firebrick, which are only 1.25" thick, on the inside so you don't lose too much room. Make sure you use the correct fireclay for exterior use as well.

One more thing, you may want to rethink the granite cap, as granite does even worse than concrete block with fire.


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## Headstill

Thanks jomama45 for your reply, so about the granite? Seems like I see many fireplace surrounds and hearths made out of granite. What are you implying that the granite will do? Seems to me that there are many fireplaces that have granite surrounds and even marble. Can you please explain your comment?


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## eemichael83

^ I would most certainly take any precautions possible in making sure that pit stays together. It will be one heck of a PITA to redo or replace now that the deck is built around it (which looks great btw).


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## Tscarborough

Granite will spall under direct flame. You see it used for surrounds which have no direct flame on them.


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## Jim F

I think I may actually build one of these next summer but maybe not as elaborate. I may skip the stone veneer. Do the egg rocks mak it difficult to clean?


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## eemichael83

Jim F said:


> I think I may actually build one of these next summer but maybe not as elaborate. I may skip the stone veneer. Do the egg rocks mak it difficult to clean?


Well I've never cleaned it... so no :laughing: BTW, applying the stone veneer was probably one of the easiest and least time consuming parts


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## wrooster

eemichael83 -- I really liked your saga! Here is mine...

moved to new thread:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/old-outdoor-fireplace-rehabd-firepit-131494/
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/old-outdoor-fireplace-rehabd-firepit-131494/#post835351


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## wrooster

.....


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## wrooster

.....


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## SingleGuy

Just finished reading all the posts in this thread and I'm pumped up now to go build mine! Thanks for the inspiration. I searched all morning on ideas/tips/tricks/etc and your work is the final stop. I tip my hat to you sir...

If it's ok to ask; what, roughly, was the final bill for this project?


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## eemichael83

^ I believe the total was somewhere around $1600 which included the flagstone walkway too. I could have saved some on materials if I knew more about what I was doing beforehand but that was part of the learning process.


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## eemichael83

I finally got around to making a log rack to replace the unsightly wood pallet for the logs. Total cost was ~$15 and it looks so much better than the logs sitting on a big wide pallet with weeds growing around it. I also killed off my yard a few weeks ago, de-thatched it over the past few days, and will be core aerating it tomorrow and putting down seed and fertilizer.


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## no1hustler

Looks great. I have those same chairs. I got them for $25 on sale. Not bad for the price.


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## SingleGuy

That really adds a nice touch!


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## reachout

Hope I'm not too late but in my new blog site I was able to come up with some blogs and images that could help. Check it out: -------------


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## gma2rjc

Bump -


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## eemichael83

Holy crap! Been a little while since I've checked this but had no idea it had 3/4 Million views!


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## Jim F

It was a very nice job and quite informative. I would love to do a real fire pit. My wife bought a bunch of curved stones from Lowes. She wanted me to build a small retaining wall for a garden but they were the wrong type. I ended up using landscape ties for her retaining wall and stacking the stones around my metal fire bowl and removing the legs so the bowl would fit in the middle. It looks nicer but still isn't a fire pit.


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## RiffeShooter

I just joined and ran across your thread in a search. Is there a location we can see the pics of your build? Looks like they have been move and are no longer available here. Thanks!


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## Jim F

Yes I see that. Starting at the bottom of page one through page 12 all the images are gone. They start again on page 12 or 13.


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## cocobolo

Jim F said:


> Yes I see that. Starting at the bottom of page one through page 12 all the images are gone. They start again on page 12 or 13.


It looks like your early pics were linked through photobucket, and that you have possibly removed them from your account. If you post directly to the DIY Chatroom, the pics will stay.


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## TheEplumber

eemichael83 said:


> Holy crap! Been a little while since I've checked this but had no idea it had 3/4 Million views!





RiffeShooter said:


> I just joined and ran across your thread in a search. Is there a location we can see the pics of your build? Looks like they have been move and are no longer available here. Thanks!





Jim F said:


> Yes I see that. Starting at the bottom of page one through page 12 all the images are gone. They start again on page 12 or 13.


michael-- I sure hope you find the time to upload the missing images. They add a lot to the thread.


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## BigJim

For me all the pictures are gone until page #183, that is a shame we can see all the pictures.


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## eemichael83

TheEplumber said:


> michael-- I sure hope you find the time to upload the missing images. They add a lot to the thread.


Hey, just noticed this request... the pics were hosted on a site that ended up getting moved or deleted, I'll try and find the pics, and load them up in a single post or something this weekend.


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## shumakerscott

eemichael83 said:


> Holy crap! Been a little while since I've checked this but had no idea it had 3/4 Million views!


Don't put any trust in the views. They get manipulated. This sight makes money and needs to show usage. There was a guy here some years ago that was pushing his view count way up, Scuba Dave. I busted him out on it and he finally was dropped. Keep up the great work. Get the pic's back up. dd...


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