# Why does my drywall work always suck?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Are you following some one instruction. I don't wet the tape.
I apply mud with a 4" knife, apply the paper press that in with the knife , clean the edges, let dry.
No sanding, knock off any lumps with a clean knife and apply a thin 4" wide over tape.
Hide the sand paper or some one will think they need to sand before the final coat is done.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I never heard of wetting the tape.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

You mix the mud more sloppy than normal when taping. Apply it over the joint. Then lay the tape in that mud. Use a finger to hold the tape steady while you use a 3" knife to wipe it down tight, squeezing out as much mud from under the tape as you reasonably can with just one motion. I usually start in the middle of the tape and wipe left... then go back to the middle and wipe right. Put whatever squeezes out back in your pan, to use taping in other areas. Then you let that dry before you go any farther.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jun 15, 2018)

IMO, QuickDry Mud is just another name for Plaster of Paris.
and to me, Plaster of Paris is a bit harder to sand than Drywall Compound.
but, that is just me.
believe it or not, I actually enjoy drywall work (on a small scale).
it brings out the craftsmanship and skill in me plus the OCD factor that it has to be perfect.
drywalling is a learned skill. . . . if you learn to do it wrong, it will be frustrating each and every time.
if you learn how to do it right, it will go relatively quick and easy with satisfactory results.
practice on small pieces nailed to a plywood frame. especially patching damaged holes and new seams.
practice - practice - practice = on anything that you want to get better at.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Use Fibafuse tape instead of paper tape.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Tools can help as well. I use a hawk to carry the mud to the work and use a tape reel like a third hand. When I layout (usually 6' at a time) a length of tape I want my 6" knife is sharp enough so I can press the tape against the drywall and just tear it off, allowing the reel end to just fall. When hands are free I just spin the reel to pick up the extra tape I dropped.

I usually work from a 5 gallon bucket and add a few tablespoons of water at the top. I then grab the power mixer and mix maybe 6" at the top, judging the consistency as I mix. Too thick I add a touch more water. Too thin I mix a bit deeper.

Bud


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> This is 20 minute mud, so it dried over the next couple hours.


This probably has nothing to do with your problem, but I found this very curious statement. I'm not sure what the word "so" is doing there. Also, regardless of the type of mud it's not going to dry in a couple hours, it normally takes about a day give or take depending on factors.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

John Smith_inFL said:


> IMO, QuickDry Mud


There is no such thing as quick dry mud. Sorry to harp on the subject, but a lot of people call it that and it just perpetuates the confusion about it.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Can you explain why I buy 5 minute to 90 minute setting mud and it does dry quickly.

Bud


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

This probably sounds brutal, but finishing drywall just takes a lot of practice. The more you do it the better you get. Which of course is not what the beginner likes hearing.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Bud9051 said:


> Can you explain why I buy 5 minute to 90 minute setting mud and it does dry quickly.
> 
> Bud


Setting Compounds will set in a given time period depending on temp. & humidity.
Drying is also related to temp. & humidity it may take hours longer for the water / moisture to dissipate after the compound has set chemically.
Plaster of Paris will harden some what under water but will still be wet.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Mike Milam said:


> This probably sounds brutal, but finishing drywall just takes a lot of practice. The more you do it the better you get. Which of course is not what the beginner likes hearing.


But id he continues to put paper on with 1/4 of mud, all the practice on the world will not help. 
Beginners have to learn, less is more.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

The edges of drywall as bought from the store are tapered a little. When you apply the tape the tape should be within the tapered area so a perfectly flat sanding a few days later will not expose the tape.

If you had to cut the drywall, the edge you cut is not tapered and the tape is above the drywall surface contour and perfectly flat sanding will always expose the tape.

You need to sand it leaving a bulge so the tape stays covered. This requires a lot of skill and artistry and practice so you get a smooth although not perfectly flat surface over the joint but so it does not look like a bulge or ridge.

(added later) I am also very poorly skilled with midding and have left visible patches (painted over half decently) in drywall in some rental apartments.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

I'm a poorly-skilled mudder, too. So my experience may relate to the OP better than the "experts."

I do wet the (paper) tape first. Not soak, but just quickly run it through some water, pulling it between my fingers so it doesn't drip. I've found it makes a huge difference, especially since I'm not skilled enough to thin the mud a bit for taping.

As for butt joints with no taper for the tape, I learned early on that some mud knives come with a very slight curve to build up that bulge. I always sight along the knife edge before using it. I know this is obvious to anyone who's done a lot of this but for a raw beginner it could be helpful.


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## Randy Bush (Dec 9, 2020)

When I am taping I sand as little as possible. Normally only at the every end . Takes practice.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I'm not fond of sanding. If applying an extra coat of mud will reduce how much sanding is needed - I do so. The final coat of mud should be the only coat that needs sanding.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Bud9051 said:


> Can you explain why I buy 5 minute to 90 minute setting mud and it does dry quickly.


It does NOT. Geez, it seems like no matter how many times I explain this, people just won't get it. Setting compound does NOT DRY quickly. It sets. It sets while still wet. It does not need to dry to get hard, like premixed (drying) compound. Yes of course it will dry eventually, but only after hours. It needs to dry before you can sand it. But it does not need to dry to harden. That's why you can put the next coat on after 20 or 45 minutes or whatever. It hardens while wet. Like concrete. Not like paint. Like 2 part epoxy. Not like Elmer's glue.

Setting mud sets. Drying mud dries. Setting mud will dry, but drying has nothing to do with it setting. In fact if it dries out too quickly before it sets, it will be weaker. Drying mud must dry to set. Setting mud sets up due to a chemical reaction involving water and other ingredients. Drying mud relies on water evaporating from it to align the molecular compounds and make them hard. Completely different process.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I think you are hung up on the purpose of the mud vs the actual drying. Hot mud will set fast whether it is technically dry or not. You need to mix a batch of each for yourself to see. 

One project I was on discovered a major mistake in the drawing just a few hours before the grand opening. They had to remove a bunch of drywall, adjust framing, and then install new drywall, and paint. The hot mud they used allowed that change to be made in short order, period. I was there and it worked where joint compound would have never come close.

Bud


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Bud9051 said:


> I think you are hung up on the purpose of the mud vs the actual drying. Hot mud will set fast whether it is technically dry or not. You need to mix a batch of each for yourself to see.
> 
> One project I was on discovered a major mistake in the drawing just a few hours before the grand opening. They had to remove a bunch of drywall, adjust framing, and then install new drywall, and paint. The hot mud they used allowed that change to be made in short order, period. I was there and it worked where joint compound would have never come close.
> 
> Bud


If you want a product that sets very fast & will reach a PSI of 3000 in 30 Min.try Hydrocal it is a Gypsum cement. We use it to run cornish & ornamental work & yes you can sand it in 30 min. if needed.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Bud9051 said:


> I think you are hung up on the purpose of the mud vs the actual drying. Hot mud will set fast whether it is technically dry or not.


Are you freaking kidding me right now? That's what I just got done saying. Fer crissakes man.


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## HuckPie (Nov 15, 2020)

.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I think I'd kill myself if I had to get that messy. Just use FibaFuse.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jul 28, 2015)

Nealtw said:


> Are you following some one instruction. I don't wet the tape.
> I apply mud with a 4" knife, apply the paper press that in with the knife , clean the edges, let dry.
> No sanding, knock off any lumps with a clean knife and apply a thin 4" wide over tape.
> Hide the sand paper or some one will think they need to sand before the final coat is done.


Someone on here once told me to wet the tape to avoid bubbles. It's worked well for me for that purpose.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jul 28, 2015)

It ended up looking good enough after the texture was done. Good enough for me.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Mike Milam said:


> This probably sounds brutal, but finishing drywall just takes a lot of practice. The more you do it the better you get. Which of course is not what the beginner likes hearing.


This. Exactly.

Over the years I've gone from "frustrated sucky drywall mudder" to "old fat pretty decent drywall mudder." SO much of it is just practice, finding out what works and doesn't work for you, and getting a feel for it.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

For patching (more than 1/4" thick), setting type works fine; the premixed (drying type), shrinks more and cracks really badly. At least that's been my experience.

I picked up a banjo at an auction several years ago, and after I figured out how to load and operate it, I prefer using it to the mud-tape-mud process. (and Wow, $5 was a great deal)


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

DrHicks said:


> Over the years I've gone from "frustrated sucky drywall mudder" to "old fat pretty decent drywall mudder." SO much of it is just practice, finding out what works and doesn't work


People will go to a driving range or take golf lessons, yet it never occurs to them to practice a DIY skill. Go get a piece of drywall and some mud and try it out in your garage. It's not that crazy of a concept.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> For patching (more than 1/4" thick), setting type works fine; the premixed (drying type), shrinks more and cracks really badly. At least that's been my experience.


It's called "joint compound" for a reason, lol. For patching bigger holes or thicker spots you want some thing different.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

jeffnc said:


> People will go to a driving range or take golf lessons, yet it never occurs to them to practice a DIY skill. Go get a piece of drywall and some mud and try it out in your garage. It's not that crazy of a concept.


Yepper. It really shouldn't be much of a surprise to find out that practice makes a lot of difference!


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

jeffnc said:


> It's called "joint compound" for a reason, lol. For patching bigger holes or thicker spots you want some thing different.


I've found the 30 minute setting type mud works great for patching, up to about 1" thick.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

HotRodx10 said:


> I've found the 30 minute setting type mud works great for patching, up to about 1" thick.


I guess in theory, the faster setting it is, the less shrinkage there will be, since the less water has a chance to evaporate, the more it will be set in place before it can shrink. But I doubt there be any difference you'd notice between 20 and 45 for thicker patches (never heard of 30 'round here.)


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

The best single piece of advice I can offer a frustrated drywall mudbug is never get in a hurry and plan on more coats than the pros use.

As pointed out earlier always use a 4" knife to bed the tape.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

jeffnc said:


> I guess in theory, the faster setting it is, the less shrinkage there will be, since the less water has a chance to evaporate, the more it will be set in place before it can shrink. But I doubt there be any difference you'd notice between 20 and 45 for thicker patches (never heard of 30 'round here.)


It's been several years since I used any. It might've been 20 or 45, or maybe they used to have 30, and they don't make it anymore. I think I used the 90 minute stuff with the same results.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Random notes-

One of the problems I always see is DIYers using too small of a taping knife. They don't seem to understand why you would need 4 knives (or 3 plus a trowel) to patch a wall. That final 12" knife is important for covering anything other than tapered joints.

Another of the problems I always see is not maintaining the premixed compound bucket well. You have to clean off the sides and make sure no little flakes or nuggets exist or can form, or it will ruin your job and your day. And even though it's called "premixed", you still usually have to mix it up some, sometimes with a bit of water.

DIYers always have problems with paper tape. Solution: switch to mesh tape or better, FibaFuse.

Setting compound is stronger than premixed drying compound. Paper tape is stronger than mesh tape. DIYers (and some pros!) use mesh tape for convenience and because they have problems with paper tape. Problem is, mesh tape _requires_ setting compound to reach full strength. There goes your convenience. Solution: use FibaFuse, best of both worlds. (I still use paper tape for corners.)

I don't ever use mesh tape (too many problems), so I don't have a big need for setting compound for strength reasons. As a pro I can't make 4 trips to patch a wall, so the reason I would use setting compound is to get done with fewer trips. If it's a longer project and I'll be there for several days anyway, I'll use premixed compound. If patching is all I'm doing or it's a shorter project, I use setting compound so I can get 3 coats on in a couple hours. Setting compound for the first 2 coats, premixed for the 3rd coat, then back the next day to sand and paint. (With 3 coats at once it will sometimes need and extra day to dry, but the point is it's not extra trips for me.) Homeowners don't have this problem, so there's no need for setting compound unless they really need the extra strength, or shrinkage is a real issue.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jul 28, 2015)

Here's my next attempt at drywall work. This is to cover the icemaker area from my other post. I wet the tape in a cup of water because it's the only way I can avoid bubbles. I used the small knife before and after the tape. Then I used a larger knife (8 or 10"?) and wasn't sure what to do with it, but I held it at a very steep angle and made the mud very thin on the tape. Then I put more sideways across the tape (not sure why) with the 8", then again made it thin. I can still see the tape, so I guess I should get used to doing 2 or 3 coats.

I plan to finish it with a can of spray orange peel. I've also seen people flick the texture on with the end of a broom or their fingers, but I'll stick with the spray can for now until I'm better.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Generally it's not a good idea to apply more mud until the tape coat has dried. 3 coats is the norm.

Flicking texture on works for knockdown but I doubt you could create orange peel that way,


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jul 28, 2015)

I finished all 3 coats. I used a 12" knife for coats #2 and 3, and a 4" for #1. I know I shouldn't have used the 12" for the 2nd coat, but it's all I had. I'm not sure what direction I'm supposed to be going with the 12" knife. Should I be going across the tape? Or skimming in the same direction as the tape? Or a little of both?

A couple other questions... Here you can see a couple places the electrician had to cut out. I tried to screw the top one back and it's bowing out. If I put a furring strip back there, it might help, but there would still be an obvious seam. Is the only way to have the professionals come back and redo the entire area (including texture)?

For some reason, I can't post pictures.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Normally you run your mud the same direction as the tape although there are exceptions.
Floating the mud out further can help minimize humps. It will still be there but won't be as easy to spot.


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