# Help with drainaige - Sump constantly running



## TANC (Jan 12, 2010)

No one????


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

I assume you have a check valve immediately above your pump, since you describe a quality pump system. Many fields in Iowa were drained using drain tile (gapped clay or concrete) to lower the moisture levels common in the flat lands of Iowa. It is cheaper to replace a pump every year or two than do a major system, since good pumps last a long time if they are kept clean. - They can be annoying depending on the location and isolation.

From the photos you seem to have drainage toward your home from the adjacent land. It also appears that there is some granular materials/aggregate in the area, but it could just be fill. - Not the familiar dark good growing soil that can get impossible with rains.

You do not drain water away in dperforated rain tile, but use a solid walled pipe (preferably pvc).

These field tiles (if it was a field) are probably still there and collecting water that can eventually get to your foundation.

Find some old-timers and find out what the land was previously was like and used for. That could provide some clues before investigating the old field/pasture.


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## bmelanco (Feb 6, 2010)

Talk to your closest neighbors. If they have issues as well then I'd say the 1) the groundwater table is very high in you area, or 2) the foundation drain system install wiht your houses is lacking. If it is just your house it could be as the other poster mentioned that you have an old farm field tile drian going right to your foundation or that the field drained right to your lot. See if you can findsome old aerial photos to look at (call the sounth soil and water conservaiton district office) It could also be that the foundation drain line is blocked?


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

This is definitely a problem that is going to require more homework on your part. Dittos on checking with neighbors as your first step. If you are in the same boat as everyone else (no pun intended)...well, sump pumps are sometimes the final and only solution. 

A good pump system with reliable backup often beats the alternative, which is usually very expensive and very messy even when it is possible. Check back in if you find you are a candidate for a fix. We can help you decide which route to go.


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## GardenConcepts (Jan 21, 2010)

An exterior perimeter drain along the foundation walls just below the height of the footings would be the best way to drain the water without a pump- but you would need enough pitch from the footing to daylight (or storm drain) for this to work.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> I assume you have a check valve immediately above your pump, since you describe a quality pump system. Many fields in Iowa were drained using drain tile (gapped clay or concrete) to lower the moisture levels common in the flat lands of Iowa. It is cheaper to replace a pump every year or two than do a major system, since good pumps last a long time if they are kept clean. - They can be annoying depending on the location and isolation.
> 
> From the photos you seem to have drainage toward your home from the adjacent land. It also appears that there is some granular materials/aggregate in the area, but it could just be fill. - Not the familiar dark good growing soil that can get impossible with rains.
> 
> ...


This was my first thought as well. I've seen a few houses put in around here where the excavation intersected old farm field tile. Hopefully it was re-directed around the basement, but I've found that isn't always the case, do to cutting corners. We have a company around here that still specializes in field draintiling work, and has installed most of it through the decades in this county. They would be my first stop for help in identifying the problem. Hopefully you can locate a company like that in your area.

It could also be the natural ground water table is high in this area. This should have been fairly noticeable during the construction of the house though.

Can you check what level the water is below the floor when the pump kicks in?


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

I assume from your post that you are concerned that the sump pump may quit one day, allowing basement flooding. The fact that it pumps essentially continuously shows that the groundwater table is well above the sump pit elevation. So in order to eliminate the need for the pump, you would need to lower the groundwater table around your house to below the sump pit elevation, which would require installation of a perimeter drain sufficiently sized to carry off all the groundwater to the storm drain. This would probably be a large, expensive project.

I recommend you hire a local drainage engineer to perform a comprehensive analysis of your site, including determination of the groundwater level, evaluation of alternatives for drainage, and design of a system if practical. You simply cannot get reasonable direction from a DIY internet site in this type of complex case.


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

Daniel Holzman said:


> You simply cannot get reasonable direction from a DIY internet site in this type of complex case.


Good advice. As several have suggested, a bit of homework is needed to even begin to guide TANC. He seemed a bit put-off when no one answered his question withing 24 hours. He's had a month of questions and suggestions but has not replied back. That's a bit of a put-off for those trying to help. Still, it's good followup for anyone searching on a similiar issue.

Hey TANC, anything to report?


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## TANC (Jan 12, 2010)

CallMeChaz said:


> Good advice. As several have suggested, a bit of homework is needed to even begin to guide TANC. He seemed a bit put-off when no one answered his question withing 24 hours. He's had a month of questions and suggestions but has not replied back. That's a bit of a put-off for those trying to help. Still, it's good followup for anyone searching on a similiar issue.
> 
> Hey TANC, anything to report?


Just waiting for the snow to melt to check out everyone's suggestions first. . .. hard to do anything till my 40 inches of snow left to melt.

No need to be trying to pick a fight Chaz. . .


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

TANC said:


> Just waiting for the snow to melt to check out everyone's suggestions first. . .. hard to do anything till my 40 inches of snow left to melt.
> 
> No need to be trying to pick a fight Chaz. . .


Pick a fight?? Hey, we thought you drown! :laughing: Actually, it's hard to know if a thread has died after a while. I still think you have a 50-50% chance of at least figuring this one out from here--OK maybe 30-70%. Fixing it...now that's another story.

I was curious, did you ever find out if your neighbors are running pumps all the time?


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## TANC (Jan 12, 2010)

House 1 up the hill runs all the time too, house 2 up runs hardly ever. . .very odd.

I also verified draintiles from the fields, they all flow down from the back of their house, quite a ways away from my house.


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## CallMeChaz (Feb 6, 2010)

TANC said:


> House 1 up the hill runs all the time too, house 2 up runs hardly ever. . .very odd.
> 
> I also verified draintiles from the fields, they all flow down from the back of their house, quite a ways away from my house.


Yoiks! Nothing like consistant results to pin it down. If you are confident of the tile info, it narrows it a bit. 

I understand your apprehension about depending on a pump. It drove me to finally dig up my foundation--I found a lovely underground reservoir of water-laden gravel that I was able to drain to daylight. Prior to that, I had no foundation drains. Do you even have the option of going to daylight?


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## TANC (Jan 12, 2010)

No option to go to daylight. . .. . .best case I could take the water and drain it to my neighbors lot that is one more down the hill from me.


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

There might be the posibility of a natural spring running a few feet underground. 

It's good you're still in the construction process and had plenty of manuverability-room to spare. 
If so, it might be able to be drained to a sewer(?) or a pond.


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## trailblazer1229 (Feb 16, 2010)

Are you close to a river or stream? Here in MD, I am about 1000 yards from the head of a creek that leads to a river that leads to the bay. Back near Christmas we had 20+ inches of snow and then a lot of rain. Down about 3 inches of soil I have a lot of sand. Just the way the ground is here. My sump rand every 30 secs, then a week later, 90 secs, then a week later about every 5 minutes. I had water continuously pouring in from only 1 tile in the pit. I had to extend my discharge drain away from the house and level some of my yard to prevent a swamp. I got fed up and finally got a back up. I checked the water table in my area from a website and found it to be the highest level ever. That combined with a full moon and an easterly wind provided the perfect storm. Eventhough I am far enough from water it still affected the water table. As it dried out a bit and over time, the table lowered and water stopped flowing into the pit. I don't have a solution, but see if you can figure out what the water table level is. I even suspected an underground water pipe leak, but did not see anything bubling to the surface. But, since your drain pipe emties directly to the sewer system, perhaps and underground water leak would not buble to the surface, it would just frind the easiest way out and into the sewer. perhaps a call to the local water company if they sully water in the area might help.


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## eddiemoney (Dec 7, 2007)

interesting about the stream


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## TANC (Jan 12, 2010)

Alright, I found an electronic version of my blueprints, threw in a couple notes and cleared out the dimensions and interior walls to show you what I am dealing with. 

Here you can see the basement, location of sumppit, and how exposed the sump pit wall is. Additionally I threw in a pictures of the three inlets into the sump pit (a different color for contrast). What is interesting is the one with the arrow is the only one that ever gets any water, the other ones are bone dry.

Any thoughts?


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Don't let the location, orientation of inlets, etc.. confuse you. They mean very little in a modern system. The crock can literaly be placed anywhere around the exterior with little difference in flow in a well constructed sytem. I'd be willing to bet that the only inlet that sees water flow is also the lowest inlet, even if only by an 1/8". 

One other thought that I didn't mention before: Often times the stone or granualar material surrounding the sewer & water main is known to be a great cappilary for water to flow to a foundation. Often times when the main are above the bottom of footing, our excavator will install some heavy clay in the trench to create a dam of sorts to keep water from constantly flowign into the basement.


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## Bushman (Mar 28, 2010)

I too have a pump that runs nonstop. I have a spring or artesian well under the house and the tile empties into the sump pit at a rate of about 2-3 gallons a minute. In your case it looks like the back and side all slopes towards your hose. Bummer. i would try and redirect the water around your house with some berms. This should help with part of it. I would install a creek bed between you and the neighbor with a tile in it running to the street. You can fix the topo of the land but you can't fix the underside of it. If you have a spring or high water table as I do then you have to adapt. battery back up systems can give you as much as ten hours run time on sump. Time enough to get home and fire up the generator.
If you can get a big enough berm on the backside plant a couple spruce trees that can double as privacy between you and the guy up on the hill.
Good Luck!!


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