# Lawn/driveway drainage issue



## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

That's really poor design :sad:

You could dig a big time dry well on each side there to dispense the water that way.

I have one in my backyard which the in-ground pool overflow drains into.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I painted a whole subdivision of houses where the driveways were done like that ... .. don't guess anyone complained. I agree a dry well on each side of the apron will help, how deep/wide the dry well is will determine how much water it can hold. Water always wants to flow to the lowest point. How much water gathers in the grass swale?


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

It gets about 6 inches deep on the concrete and just kind of sits there as it is the lowest point. It spreads out in the grass on a really bad storm and might get 3 inches deep. I was thinking of a catch basin marked as a black circle on pic, ran a few feet down the trench to a dry well. Just one because it doesn’t collect on the other side of the driveway. How deep and big should one be?










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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I couldn't say how big/deep it needs to be. The size is both dependent on how much water is expected to flow into along with how well the ground percs. It doesn't hurt for it to be oversized but if it's undersized it will fill up and maybe still flood your driveway. Of course the bigger it is the more work/cost it will involve.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Who allowed the builder to not install a culvert pipe system there?
At least for the portion running under each driveway.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

When I first looked at the picture, I thought you had massive ground settling. But that was done intentionally ???


I would be calling concrete contractors.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Like I said earlier, I painted a whole subdivision [100 houses] where the majority of the aprons were poured in a similar manner. That was back in the 80s.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

TarheelTerp said:


> Who allowed the builder to not install a culvert pipe system there?
> At least for the portion running under each driveway.


As far as solutions go... 

I don't think I'd do more than to CUT OUT the concrete on either side of the joint (24-36" OA?)... and then drop a load of crusher run over the gap.
And I might spring for some pipe too. Well, maybe.


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

This is a new subdivision with all the houses built in the last 10 years. All of the driveways are like this except for the last one they built they decided to put a culvert and level out the concrete. I guess I’m leaning towards a dry well with the basin at the edge of the dip, running a few feet horizontally (sloped of course) into a drywell with possibly another basin on top or slightly past it. 

Any ballpark prices for diy vs hiring someone to install it? 


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Labor prices vary greatly from one area to another. Get a few estimates, that will give you a price and whether or not you want to hire it out or diy.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I would make a complaint at the Land Use Office.

Somebody is responsible for that.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> I guess I’m leaning towards a dry well with the basin at the edge of the dip, running a few feet horizontally (sloped of course) into a drywell with possibly another basin on top or slightly past it.


Ayuh,..... This is a poor band-aid approach, that only works til the rain fall equals the volume of the drywell,....
Then it backs up again,.....

The Best, Cheapest approach is to go out there, 'n *Dig Out the Dam* that's blockin' the water flow,......

In yer picture, you can see the dirt is higher than the concrete,......
If ya go out there with a spade shovel, 'n a stick level(the longer the better),.....
You start at the edge of the concrete, right about where the top dirt is cracked up, 'n start diggin',....
Just the width of the shovel at 1st,....
The swale bottom should be 'bout an inch below the top of the concrete, at concrete's edge, then fall away towards the catch-basin down yonder,.....
Usin' the stick level, 'n a 10' straight edge, continue diggin', so's ya got 1 inch of fall, for every 10' of travel,.....
I'm guessin' the swale will "Daylight", somewhere just past the light pole, possibly down by yer property line,....
Once the grade has been established, ya go back, 'n dig out the sides of the swale to be so gradual, as to ya don't "Notice" the swale,.....
Then scatter some grass seed, mulch, 'n wait for the new lawn to fill in with grass, insteada water,......


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,..... This is a poor band-aid approach, that only works til the rain fall equals the volume of the drywell,....
> 
> Then it backs up again,.....
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice everyone. I believe this is the route I will go with as it will be fool proof rather than spending the time and money on a dry well just for it to back up and have the same problem with big rains. I’m going to get with the neighbor and get him on board so we will both have a guaranteed drainage. 

Only thing that is aggravating is that the closer I get to my neighbors property the higher the elevation of the dirt and it will have to be cut further down and then even wider not to have a huge ditch. First step is to call and get all the service lines identified and then I might run into another road block. 

I agree that it is so annoying the builder did this to the entire neighborhood. Is there anything that can be done so they will have to come back and fix it or will it be a long drawn out process with no results? I seen somebody mentioned something in an earlier post but can anybody elaborate? We did have an HOA but it flopped and nobody has to pay the fees anymore. 

Thanks again for all the advice. 


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

FixItFelix said:


> First step is to call and get all the service lines identified and then I might run into another road block.


Actually first step is to get with your town's building inspector and make sure your plan is allowed - since you are messing with drainage paths the town will be in charge of this project (might need a permit as well) - they take drainage very seriously so as to not cause an even bigger problem after you "fix" your issue.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Texasdiyer said:


> Actually first step is to get with your town's building inspector and make sure your plan is allowed - since you are messing with drainage paths the town will be in charge of this project (might need a permit as well) - *they take drainage very seriously so as to not cause an even bigger problem after you "fix" your issue*.


Ayuh,.... Actually,... Lookin' at the picture again, it appears to be the problem of the owner of the road,.....

The blacktop road, pitches into each driveway to get water to the drainage ditch,....

That dip in the driveways, 'n the missin' swale appear to be at the width of the right-of-way, 'n part of the "Road",....

Ya might be able to blackmail the town into fixin' _Their_ problem,.....


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

But to *Texasdiyer*'s point --- it is common up here that cities have bylaws prohibiting changing rainwater drainage patterns (without appropriate permit).


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

SPS-1 said:


> But to *Texasdiyer*'s point --- it is common up here that cities have bylaws prohibiting changing rainwater drainage patterns (without appropriate permit).


Down here on one side of street they can have wooden fences but on other side they can't so as to not mess with drainage - and the code enforcement guys drive around and watch for such - pretty tough


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

UPDATE

I contacted the county regarding my drainage issue and they came out within two days!! I was super surprised and it did not take them long at all. 

Although they removed the hump to the next yard I went out with a string level and back breaking work to give it a slope (which it could use a little more). I put the water hose running down the driveway for 10 minutes (roughly 80 gallons to simulate a huge rain) and then continued to slope it. 

It rained an inch today and it resulted in zero water in the driveway and few small puddles in the trench. Is there anything else I should do to make it look and perform better? For example I know grass seed but anything else? Thanks









The pics are 10 minutes after the 80 gallons of water. 


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Your kidding right.?

None of that would pass inspection in my neck of the woods.

I would take the pictures to the Land Use Office.
Some body approved the plains and then stamped it as PASSED.

Someone saved themselves a lot of money.


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

Well the situation I’m facing is call the county to come back out and risk them digging a huge ditch rather than making it look better or getting some advice that could help me. 




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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> Is there anything else I should do to make it look and perform better? For example I know grass seed but anything else?


Ayuh,.... Considerin' ya got the town to do 1/2 of the job is a plus,.... I guess.....

They could have cut the side edges outa the swale, but atleast the grade is pretty well set for the center of the swale,...

As I said back in post 13, ya gotta finish what the town started now, to complete the task,.....


> Once the grade has been established, *ya go back, 'n dig out the sides of the swale to be so gradual, as to ya don't "Notice" the swale,.....
> Then scatter some grass seed, mulch, 'n wait for the new lawn to fill in with grass, insteada water,......*


Just a _Guess_,.... It appears to be 'bout 75 to 100 wheelbarrows fulla dirt to come out,....
Dealin' with cuttin', 'n shavin' the sod to grade is gonna be the tough part,....
'course, that's where shimmin', 'n rakin' gets ya the "Finished" look,.....


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I'd wait for some rain to see how it does. I'd be inclined to cut the sides a little to make it easier to mow ..... after I'm convinced it will handle the water.


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

mark sr said:


> I'd wait for some rain to see how it does. I'd be inclined to cut the sides a little to make it easier to mow ..... after I'm convinced it will handle the water.




Thanks, at this point I believe that’s all I can do is cut the sides down like you said to make it easier to mow and make it look better. I’m now looking into some roll out grass seed netting type material to lay down when it warms up. Thanks again. 

We received an inch of rain yesterday and it kept it out of the driveway and only pooled a little in the new ditch. 


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Good that you got the municipality to come, and quickly! It was their problem to fix, both from the sense that it is their property but they must have approved the site plan. That type of swale ditch only works if the contractor ensures there is a constant slope to the drain. It is something one would never see up here without culverts under driveway because of freezing. Other that tapering off the shoulders of the new ditch so it looks better and is easier to mow, there's not much else to do. You might want to live through a couple of good rains first to see if there is other remedial work to do.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

The developer of the subdivision is the one responsible for this fiasco, not the home builders.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Canarywood1 said:


> The developer of the subdivision is the one responsible for this fiasco, not the home builders.



Fair enough but the municipality had to have inspected and signed off on the site development. Whether they make it better or try to go after the developer to do it is for lawyers to fight over.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Now that it works almost perfectly, don't call anyone again, don't call anyone back, and don't call anyone else. Let the dog go to sleep and then let sleeping dogs lie.



> I would take the pictures to the Land Use Office.


No (more) show and tell for now.

You can carve it a little more yourself to make it look nicer and make it easier to mow without leaving too much in the way of uneven grass length of scalping. Look around the neighborhood or even tour other streets with similar roadside swales to get some landscaping ideas.

For your curiosity only you might research to find out whether the first few feet away from the pavement edge is really town property, although you would be responsible for landscaping it to suit your taste and stay within town requirements.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> Fair enough but the municipality had to have inspected and signed off on the site development. Whether they make it better or try to go after the developer to do it is for lawyers to fight over.




So your saying that the municipality is the one they would have to sue, i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to win that one.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Now that this new ditch is in place what happens to the water when it gets down to the end near your neighbors yard ? Does it pool/overflow onto the neighbors ? If it were me I would NOT do anymore on your own . As it stands right now if your neighbor has any issues his complaint is with the county that did the work . You go out there and start fussing around and they take pics of you working the fault swings your direction . Hopefully it never comes to that .


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## 195795 (May 24, 2013)

Canarywood1 said:


> The developer of the subdivision is the one responsible for this fiasco, not the home builders.


Not the developer, the town that first approved the plans and then signed off on the work after done


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

I have decided to hire a landscaper to install a French drain, bring in dirt to level the whole yard with no ditch or swale and then lay sod. I am letting the landscaper deal with the county codes and legal vs illegal issues. 

I live in south GA if anyone knows of a good landscaping company or would like to bid on it please let me know. 

Thanks


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

FixItFelix said:


> I have decided to hire a landscaper to install a French drain, bring in dirt to level the whole yard with no ditch or swale and then lay sod. I am letting the landscaper deal with the county codes and legal vs illegal issues.
> 
> I live in south GA if anyone knows of a good landscaping company or would like to bid on it please let me know.
> 
> ...


Directing water to your neighbors yard will land you in a lawsuit. 
Go to your local Land Use Office where the permits etc. are issued.

I would get a lawyer who knows about construction.

I'm done........


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

How far is the work the county came in and did for you from the real subdivision drain you originally mentioned? Does the new flow pattern resuilt in the water that used to pool up on your driveway going all the way to the subdivision drain?

Procrastinate a little on the French drain so that the effects of the work the county did can be seen for a longer length of time.

Where is your French drain intended to dump the water?


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

FixItFelix said:


> I have decided to hire a landscaper to install a French drain, bring in dirt to level the whole yard with no ditch or swale and then lay sod. I am letting the landscaper deal with the county codes and legal vs illegal issues.
> 
> I live in south GA if anyone knows of a good landscaping company or would like to bid on it please let me know.
> 
> ...



Depending on where your property line is, that, or a good part of it, might be municipal property. Your survey should be helpful if you have one. I doubt you can get a permit to do work on land that isn't yours.


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

AllanJ said:


> How far is the work the county came in and did for you from the real subdivision drain you originally mentioned? Does the new flow pattern resuilt in the water that used to pool up on your driveway going all the way to the subdivision drain?
> 
> Procrastinate a little on the French drain so that the effects of the work the county did can be seen for a longer length of time.
> 
> Where is your French drain intended to dump the water?




The drain is right past my neighbors house (see pic with black arrow). The new ditch the county dug results with zero water in the driveway, minor pooling in the ditch, but not going all the way to the drain past my neighbors house due to improper slope. 

The French drain is intended to dump towards my neighbors house towards the storm drain, of course with proper slope. Because that is where it is supposed to go if it was sloped correctly. 

I have two companies coming out on Monday to see what their expert opinion is and what the best option is. I also informed them that I am worried about county code, and the legality of doing the work. 

They assured me they would clear everything with the county before starting the work/get the plan design approved and get the permits. 

I will also make sure that is in the contract and if the county has an issue they will be held liable and responsible for making it right. 




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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Does the ditch as dug go all the way to the property line with the neighbor as shown?

Using the water level as shown in the ditch (wait for another rainstorm if the ditch is now dry), and estimating the water level all the way to the property line if the ditch did already go that far, where would you estimate the water would go next if it overflowed the ditch extending only to the property line?

Does your deed mention a drainage easement or "subject to a swale"?

Where is the next subdivision drain going the other way (behind you in the pictures shown)?

I am estimating that an underground French drain will not accomplish anything unless it ties directly into the subdivision drain.


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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

AllanJ said:


> Does the ditch as dug go all the way to the property line with the neighbor as shown?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My thoughts are that it will dump the water into my neighbors swale, down his driveway, and into the subdivision drain as it was designed to do. 


I will obviously wait for the drainage experts to give me their two cents before making any changes. I was also thinking of a dry well past my drive and in the middle of my property but like I said will wait and see what the experts say. Thanks



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## FixItFelix (Dec 28, 2018)

If anybody is still interested or going through a similar issue..... I had a Landscaper come out today and they recommended raising the driveway dip up with concrete pavers on top, having a basin connected to pvc going to the end of my yard with a pop up emitter. Leveling the ditch and laying sod on top. 

It’s alot of money (3k) but also looks like a lot of work and materials. Not sure how I feel about the pavers though since it’ll be the only house in the subdivision with them. I’m brainstorming for other options. 

Was thinking of asking him about a small brick retaining wall on each side of the driveway dip (so the yard can be leveled out) with pvc at the bottom of the wall running to the neighbors yard with a pop up due to cost.










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