# Ceiling patch recessed - build up before taping?



## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm doing a ceiling patch and my patch is recessed as shown in the pics. I put one layer of 45-min hot mud on. Should I build this up with hot mud so the patch is level with the existing drywall before I tape?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Tape it now---multipurpose would be best--but your powdered easy sand will do--then fill and top coat---


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

With that big a difference you might want to take it down and shim behind it. That's going to take a lot of mud.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I don't want to have to take it down if I don't have to. I've read that you should build it up w hot mud until it's level and then tape but I wanted to get some feedback first.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> With that big a difference you might want to take it down and shim behind it. That's going to take a lot of mud.


If I don't take it down is it better to tape now, then build it up w mud?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes tape it now.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

How far from flush is the recess? If it's a at least 1/4".
I'd recommend putting a piece of 1/4" drywall over the patch that is already up. Then tape and mud.:thumbsup:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> Yes tape it now.


I put a 2nd coat of mud on last night and got it filled in a little more. I read that you're supposed to build up the recess first then tape.

I saw that here > http://www.drywallinfo.com/tapingjoints.html

I can tape now if you think that's better. I was just worried the tape wouldn't lay flat.

Here's how it looks now:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Sir MixAlot said:


> How far from flush is the recess? If it's a at least 1/4".
> I'd recommend putting a piece of 1/4" drywall over the patch that is already up. Then tape and mud.


It's flush in the center (I used a backer there) and either 1/16" or 1/8" recess depending on the corner.

I can tape it now and then build it up w more hot mud using my 8" knife. The gaps not big enough to Ardmore drywall and it is flush in the middle.

Woulda you tape now or build it up more?

Here's after the 2nd coat


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm just worried that if I tape it now as is, the tape won't sit right. I'm using adhesive mesh tape so I can "form" it around the recess.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Your tape is what gives it it's strength. With that much mud it wouldn't hurt if you tape it twice. But yes if you only do it once do it toward the last.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> Your tape is what gives it it's strength. With that much mud it wouldn't hurt if you tape it twice. But yes if you only do it once do it toward the last.


Thank you. When you say do it toward the last, I assume you mean after I fill it in with more mud (to level it)?

I may get it smooth, tape, put more mud, then tape again as suggested.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

This is how the ceiling looks now after building it up w hot mud. Am I ready to switch to pre-mixed joint compound for the final coats? It do I need another coat or two of hot mud to get it more level first?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Just wondering if I'm ready to switch to premixed joint compound? Or do I need to build this up w more hot mud?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Should I sand this smooth and then put some joint compound around to smooth it out and even it up?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I see a large gap in the middle which, to me, means a build up of more hot mud before going to the premixed. This sure would have been a lot easier had you either shimmed or added a piece of 1/4 inch drywall. You'll be mudding till summer, lol.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks, I'll add another layer (maybe two) of hot mud before I switch. I used a shim in the middle off the patch. The problem is I mounted the edges of the patch to existing floor joists. This ceiling has metal hangers where the drywal attached which means it's not flush to the joists. This is why it was recessed when I mounted the patch to the joists. I probably should have used shims all around.

I noticed using a straight edge that some of the ceiling after the patch isn't completely straight (see pic below). I assume this is what I'm matching it to. 

I just need to get this smooth and level. How many coats of hot mud before I switch to premixed compound? It seems like it's building up fast.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

The hot mud has been going on rough like in the pics above. Why is that? Is that because I didn't mix it well enough or it needs more water?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yes, you're not adding enough water. Hot mud is a tricky animal.......too much water and it goes on soupy and is weak. Not enough water and its workability is affected and it usually starts setting up much quicker. I would say you're ready for the premix. If you add too much more hot mud, you're going to have a noticeable hump in the middle.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks. I added two more coats of hot mud so I think I'm finally ready to switch to joint compound. 

Here's how it looks, I added a little bit more water this time. It stil has rough areas but not as bad as before.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yeah, it looks like you're getting lots of "drag marks" because of the dry mix. It's all good, it sands out and your premix will take care of any indentations, etc. Just be sure to feather it out a good 12 -14 inches PAST your seams.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

After sanding in one corner I can see the mesh tape. I imagine I want to build this up w more mud and further out? And sand less?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I did another coat and a skim coat with more pre-mixed joint compound. The problem I'm having is the patch has gotten pretty big (3.5ft x 3.5ft). It's tough to get a smooth skim coat on all of it without having imperfections and rough drag marks in areas. 

I tried sanding it a bunch using a drywall sanding block and 150 grit fine but all the sanding has me feeling the patch getting slightly 'wavy'. 

To get it smooth should I try and thin the pre-mixed compound out and to to apply it to the entire patch to get it smooth? Or should I just "touch up" sections and try to keep sanding it smooth in those areas?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

What kind of primer do u recommend to cover my ceiling patches and mudding? I'm going to need to prime the patches as well as the full ceiling to paint.

Should I get killz2 latex? I'm going to paint the ceiling a ceiling white from BM or some other brand.

I should add that I'm going to prime the patch area first to see if I need to add more mud to any imperfections. And go from there.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

cjaustin81 said:


> What kind of primer do u recommend to cover my ceiling patches and mudding? I'm going to need to prime the patches as well as the full ceiling to paint.
> 
> Should I get killz2 latex? I'm going to paint the ceiling a ceiling white from BM or some other brand.
> 
> I should add that I'm going to prime the patch area first to see if I need to add more mud to any imperfections. And go from there.


The Kilz2 will work. But I prefer the Zinnser123 latex primer over the Kilz2. :thumbsup:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Sir MixAlot said:


> The Kilz2 will work. But I prefer the Zinnser123 latex primer over the Kilz2. :thumbsup:


Thanks. Would you spot prime the patches (to check for imperfections) and then prime the entire ceiling?

I want to make sure I don't see my patches as well as the joist lines that show from thermal tracking.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

The pros my cringe, but I came up with a way to get a perfect feather for a large patch each time. I take a cheap hangar. Cut the straight bottom metal piece off. Out the hanger piece in the middle of the area you want to patch and tape that piece of metal on both ends with blue tape. Get a good 9 or 7 inch knife with mud, put one end of the knife on the hanger with the other end on the finished drywall area, and drag the length to cover over the patch. Do the other side of the hanger, remove the hanger and lightly draw the knife over where the hanger was removed to fill in the gap. 
Save me a lot of time in trying to get a big patch even with minimal coats


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've been sanding and have my patch about as smooth as I can get it w 220. I want to prime it, but I touched up some imperfections after getting a handheld shop light on it. This is what the patch looks like under the shop light. 

I noticed it looks "patchy". It's pretty smooth when you run your hand over. Does this look like it's ok to prime though?




























You see every little detail under this light, in regular light it looks s lot more uniform.


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