# Tiling tub/shower surround w/plaster & lath walls



## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

It has been almost a year since we bought our house 

We have guests coming to stay with us soon and the main bathroom (a.k.a. "nightmare bath") is getting a facelift. We ran fresh Pex plumbing lines yesterday to bypass all the galv the idiot plumber left in the last time the walls/ceiling were open, and the next thing on the list is to make the tub/shower useful again. The house was built in 1913, and the tub surround has plaster and lath walls that had had faux tile paneling on them, and amazingly there are no signs anywhere of water permeating underneath or water damage. (The previous owners did, however, have shower curtains hung on all 4 sides of the tub, which we won't be repeating.) There is a window in the back wall of the tub surround, so we will be hanging a curtain rod to have a shower curtain protect it because it's the only light source, and it's just not something we want to remove from the perspective of outside aesthetics, either.

We looked at that water proof paneling yesterday for a "quick fix" so the guests won't need the master bath for showering, but at $23/sheet and needing 4 sheets, my husband said I should tile it, instead. (Lucky for him he's not the handyman of the house, so it's very easy to say what "should" be done :laughing But I digress...

We found simple subway tile to be pretty affordable, and we're putting the mold resistant green board on one end because we need to close it in, but around the window and at the other end of the tub, do we just slap up 1/2" green board, right on top of the plaster and lath walls? (If there were 1/4" greenboard, I'd be much happier, because I want to maintain some space around the tub sides to set shampoo and stuff, and with the 1/2" plus the tile/grout/etc, we're eating up precious space. 

Also, this is my first time working with greenboard, but it would seem one wouldn't use basic mud and tape at the joints of greenboard because the whole point is moisture/mold resistance, so what do I "mud" this stuff together with so I can get tiling? (And are there special screws I need, or can I just use my course thread drywall screws?) And following the "mud" drying, is there any pro tips for prep to tile? Anything I should be doing to get maximum adhesion of tile and awesome grout lines and grout protection? (I'm taking tips early here because last time I tiled I got suckered by the store into this grout additive that was a nightmare to work with.)

Thanks, in advance, for you're awesome advice :wink:


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No green board can be used in a wet area.
To do it right all that old plaster has to go, use tile board instead.
The wall will have to be shimed to make up for the thickness of the old plaster.

The tile board will need to be water proofed with a product like Red Guard before the tile goes up.
I've never seen or heard of 1/4 green board.

Only place green board should be used is above the enclosure and the rest of the bathroom, not in the shower area when it gets wet at all.

Not a great idea to have a window in the shower area unless you plan on installing a vinyl window with vinyl trim and sealing the whole thing.
A Solor Tube would give you all the natural light you need if there's a roof above the room.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Tile board? Hmmm this is something I have definately never heard of. Thanks for that tip. Is tile board the same as cement board or "hardie backer?" Oy removing all the plaster and lath is gonna SUCK.... 

The window, I know it's not a "good idea" but it's a 100 year old house. Many of the old ideas weren't exactly brilliant for todays living, but she's <my house> got her own kinda charm. This shower isn't the master shower that gets the most use, and with our curtain rod going over the window and providing a shower curtain that can suction at the sides to the wall, I think we can keep that window OK. Is it ideal? No. But it is what it is. She's an old house, and I didn't buy her to take her character and charm away and make it new. 

How horrible would it be to add the tile board over the plaster and lath? :whistling2: I've had to remove plaster and lath in other places and man oh man is that a  because you often end up removing more than you want to remove because it keeps cracking wider and wider


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If you precut it with a 4-1/2" grinder with a masonry blade or a diamond blade you can stop it anyplace you want to.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Why can't she install a waterproof membrane over the plaster and tile over that ?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Evstarr said:


> Why can't she install a waterproof membrane over the plaster and tile over that ?


The tile board that Joe is referring is a product like Durrock or hardibacker--

Cement board--1/2"

Evstarr is talking about a waterproof surface membrane--

Schluter makes the best known of these types--Kerdi is the brand name--

Lots of good Youtube videos available--go to the Schluter site for the real low down.

---Mike---(Jazman is highly experienced with all the above methods--If he offers any advice,it will be good----)


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i did kerdi in my last shower. good stuff. back then, 4 years ago, they said to use regular dry wall. i used green board.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for the ideas. I have to see this Kerdi stuff. I hate hate hate removing the plaster and lath because it can be brittle and hard to control and there's often really sharp metal mesh in there, too, and it turns up somewhat randomly and, well, I like my surgeries planned :laughing: and I don't want any stitches. (Running the pex lines we pulled some and yeeesh it is hardcore. Were the old timers building these places leather-skinned?


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

This may depend where you are located but green board (some times referred to as aqua board and not always green ... I've seen purple too) can be used in a shower by minimum code, but I would not recommend it. This is what was used in our 5 year old home as I recently discovered. There is also 'Wonderboard' which I personally detest as it is a pain in the ass to work with, crumbles easily and is full of thousands of holes so if using a product like Red Guard for waterproofing it takes a lot of coats. I find it a very ironic name as it is anything but wonderful ;-)
We tend to use either 1/2" cement board or Dens-shield which you can work with using drywall tools and is much lighter. I would look for the 8' sheets though as the 4'x3' sheets mean more joins which means more areas to potentially leak. You can also use regular drywall screws with Dens-shield as opposed to the super pricey ones needed for cement board ... Although decking screws can work in their place. Cement board is also hazardous when working with it so be sure to wear a filter face mask. 

Make sure to use the mildew resistant mesh tape for the corners and joins ... Not regular drywall mesh tape. Use a thin mix of thinset as the 'mud' to embed the tape and fill the joins/corners. Once dry sand this so there are no abrupt ridges and the corners are square. Rounded corners or ridges will be a pain when it comes to tiling. For the corners I use the back of my knife to imbed the tape in the corner slightly so it is a bit of an acute angle like a proper drywall corner. I used to use Kerdi for the whole shower but my system I have developed now is to use Kerdi for the bottom 16" (one piece going around all 3 walls assuming an alcove shower) and then the Mapei equivalent of Red guard (same idea but blue) for everything above that. 2 coats of the Mapei product rolled on with a 6" roller is enough to cover any small holes in the mesh tape/mud and equivalent to the thickness of the Kerdi so you end up with a uniform surface for tile. Bear in mind the Dens-shield has a built in vapor barrier on both sides so really I am adding extra layers but I like to have a bullet proof system. 

FYI: if installing Dens-shield on an external wall you are supposed to remove the existing vapor barrier from that part of the wall so as not to cause condensation between the 2 vapor barriers. I've heard people from different climates talk about having/not having vapor barrier on the inside of the studs but I'm just saying what the manufacturer recommend if you do ;-)

Note: pay close attention with Kerdi as to when to use polymer modified thinset versus non-modified thinset.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks Bonzai, for a really informative response. I highly doubt there is a vapor barrier in the external wall as the house is so old. I'm really digging the idea of a rolled on product to seal that tub/shower. It would mean a lot less difficult fussing around the window, too. I had no idea cement board was hazardous. More than a 95 mask required for simply keeping dust out of the lungs during cuts?


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

95 mask is fine. You may want to cut it outside though as makes for a whole lot of dust. Bear in mind you need a good hole saw to make the cuts for the shower head and faucet if using cement board. Also ensure that the window ledge slopes back towards the shower slightly ... Just enough for water to run off.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> 95 mask is fine. You may want to cut it outside though as makes for a whole lot of dust. Bear in mind you need a good hole saw to make the cuts for the shower head and faucet if using cement board. Also ensure that the window ledge slopes back towards the shower slightly ... Just enough for water to run off.


I killed two hole saws on cementboard with the previous bathroom floor :laughing: I'm really flirting with the idea of using the kerdi all the way up, against greenboard (I bought the greenboard before and it's already cut.) If I just run Kerdi around the bottom and then another row above it (overlapping a bit to keep water out) and another above it, etc, that's going to be pretty darned rubberized... I have 2 more days before I can resume my project, so I have some thought time. Kerdi all the way up or the roll on 3-4 layers, which is better, that is the question now... 

And no one ever did answer if I absolutely truly shouldn't Kerdi or paint seal the plaster and lath walls, so I gotta be honest, I'm leaning against opening the areas I don't have to open... I mean, it has survived in that envirnment with faux tile board over it that wasn't meant for a tub environment and there has been ZERO damage to it, so, :whistling2: (plus if I were to have issues with removing it, the other side of the wall is the living room staircase which I'm really really really not ready to touch yet) I know I'll get some eye rolls for this, but sometimes there's the right right way that is 100% by the book of best practices and then there's something pretty close that will work out fine. I'm not talking out and out Mickey Mousing, just choosing my battles and not subjecting myself to more drama that absolutely required, because this bathroom and shower must be functional by July 5th. So I'm really interested as to whether anyone has seen a well sealed plaster and lath situation like mine with say Kerdi or the painted sealant or both? (Or anyone wanna give me the nightmare scenario that I'm thinking is unlikely?) :detective:


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

JoeCaption already advised that the lath and plaster should go if you're going to do it right.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Maybe I misread, but Evstarr asked why I couldn't, and oh'mike weighed in seeming to leave the question on the table, and Fix'n It seemed to leave it on the table, too. I don't have a grinder, thus my only weapon of choice left for the plaster and lath would be the Sawzall or circular saw, so I'm really not looking forward to doing the rip out unless I have absolutely must must must. Guess I better go call some friends regarding borrowing a grinder, but I'm not hopeful...


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

if the P&L is a tough as you say. and is finished so it will hold onto the mud that you will be using to apply the kerdi, you can leave it up . how long will it last ? who knows.

other than that, with kerdi = FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ! and it still has a learning curve. at first, i didn't find it easy to install. 

pics i dug up. i have better pics somewhere, but can't find them :wink:


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

oh. and yes. if wanting to "do it right" = remove the P&L.

also. if doing a shower like mine = DO NOT use any kind of wood for the curb !!! i used paver blocks = do not rot or change size


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

The correct method of installing tiles especially where it relates to a shower stall is one of those things where you will get lots of opinions depending on different experiences, local codes/bylaws, materials available locally, how strict/knowledgeable/forward-thinking/green your building department is, what traditional practices are still used today, etc etc. The only way you can be more certain of doing something which has a better chance of lasting is to comply with local building codes. Personally, when it comes to tile installations and especially showers I believe the building codes (in BC at least) have some way to go and so I am always looking to exceed them not just scrape by.

The first home I renovated was an Edinburgh apartment built in 1780 with 2' thick stone walls on the exterior and brick walls which were plastered on the interior ... a pain in the ass to move any interior walls, but very little chance of any rot in the walls as there was no wood of course ;-) Yes they were rather musty though as the plaster was probably holding in a lot of moisture in what were inadequately vented bathrooms ... venting usually involved leaving a window open a bit :thumbup: The tile was usually installed directly on top of the plaster because that's what was the done thing back then & we didn't have access to all the materials available today for waterproofing, etc. Yes these bathrooms lasted a ridiculous length of time, yes they were musty (many had carpet or asbestos tile on the floor) and no they didn't rot other than the floor boards as that was about the only wood component. My parents bathroom is virtually unchanged in 40 years but then again it is a brick built home ... and yes it smells musty 

Since coming to Canada where the vast majority of homes are timber built, I see so many rot and carpenter ant related issues ... either incorrectly built decks or showers/tubs which have developed small crack or holes in the grout or caulking and then nothing was done for 10years 'cos the home owner thought, what the hell it's only a pin prick ... what they don't realize is how many buckets of water that fills up over a 10 year period when using the shower daily.

Technically speaking you could cake a lath & plaster wall in waterproofing membrane & if you are anal about checking & rechecking the silicon around the shower tray & the wall/ceiling joins every year (as that and the corners are the typical weak spots) then perhaps you will not have any issues from water seeping through the smallest of gaps and weeping up the plaster and/or in to the studs. I would ask myself is the physical effort to remove the lath & paster relative to the value of my home in the longer term worth it.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Fix'n it said:


> oh. and yes. if wanting to "do it right" = remove the P&L.
> 
> also. if doing a shower like mine = DO NOT use any kind of wood for the curb !!! i used paver blocks = do not rot or change size


You can use three 2x4's on top of each other (screwed & glued together) provided you then encase them in concrete board and then wrap Kerdi, for example, over that. Kind of like one of those ice-cream sandwich things ... just not as tasty :whistling2:


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

I would have to say that based on all the replies here, at the very least you better be very sure about the condition of the plaster before you consider the kerdi. My suggestion at this point would be belt and suspenders. Install the green board making sure to hit studs. Then the kerdi.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Evstarr said:


> I would have to say that based on all the replies here, at the very least you better be very sure about the condition of the plaster before you consider the kerdi. My suggestion at this point would be belt and suspenders. Install the green board making sure to hit studs. Then the kerdi.


Not green board ... Cement board or a product such as Denshield.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

I like that, belt and suspenders...

The plaster in that room is awesome. It's horse hair plaster and lath, and it hasn't aged a day, whereas other areas of the house I can see the plaster needs help, these walls in the bathroom are nothing if not solid. 

I'm mulling over my options still. Denshield over the plaster and lath , then sealed like crazy, I think. There's no pan, as it's an old cast iron tub (not the claw foot kind, though  ) 

I'm also fighting on what to do for the counter/sink area. My counter MUST be 18" or less in depth... picture a galley bathroom... long and skinny. I can sit on the toilet and wash my hands, it's so narrow.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

How about setting the faucet off to the corner of a vessel sink rather than behind it to buy yourself a couple of inches. Does that make sense?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Bonzai said:


> Not green board ... Cement board or a product such as Denshield.


why are you saying "no" to a manufacturers recommendations ?


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> How about setting the faucet off to the corner of a vessel sink rather than behind it to buy yourself a couple of inches. Does that make sense?


That's kind of where I was going, though even vessel sinks are like 17" or more, so there's still some challenge, there. I've even considered scouring Goodwills for some large bowls and attempting to make my own vessel sink, too... 

Anyone know what I could use to cut acrylic countertops? I found a place that will ship me the scraps from their orders, but I'm scared to click the BUY button until I know I can work with it myself with the tools available.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Fix'n it said:


> why are you saying "no" to a manufacturers recommendations ?


Which manufacturer is recommending that green mildew resistant gypsum board (or greenboard as it is commonly referred) be used in a shower? There is a big difference between using it around the rest of the bathroom to resist the growth of mould versus actually in the shower stall.

If you are thinking of http://www.greeneboard.com/ then this is something totally different ... similar sounding, but totally different. It is 'green' as in eco friendly, as opposed to the green paper front side on greenboard.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Bonzai said:


> Which manufacturer is recommending that green mildew resistant gypsum board (or greenboard as it is commonly referred) be used in a shower?


when using kerdi, kerdi does. well kinda, they recommend regular drywall.
but green drywall isn't any different in this application.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Fix'n it said:


> when using kerdi, kerdi does. well kinda, they recommend regular drywall.
> but green drywall isn't any different in this application.


In terms of what I can find in documented format ... Seems we're both right ... sort of. Let me explain ... the section of the 2009 Schluter installers handbook on steam showers (picked this 'cos a steam shower has the most potential for issues) states under 'Solid backing materials' a bunch of options including regular gypsum wallboard. It even says you can use gypsum board to sheath the curb! It doesn't specifically recommend anything, but I guess it is inferred. 

HOWEVER, referring to the Terrazzo, Tile & Marble Association of Canada handbook (which comes as part of the Schluter installation binder) it states under the section referring to installing large format tiles (I had to scan everything to find this) "Do not use gypsum board in wet areas such as tub & shower enclosures". They are the governing body of everything tile in North America so that's commonly the specs that installers follow ... I seem to recall a bit of a discussion on this very topic on the Schluter installer course in Vancouver a few years back & if I am not mistaken the unofficial response from Schluter was they prefer if we use cement board in any wet application (the Kerdi board was not on the market at that time).

In summary; it's very confusing for the lay-person ... all I can say is I know what the inspectors here will approve and I know what rests my conscience by leaving no room for doubt.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Hardibacker is going up over the solid plaster and lath, then likely coating with Red Guard, though there was a product at Lowe's that looked interesting called Aqua Defense, but it calls for painting the walls with the waterproofer then pushing "fabric" into it so that the waterproofer bleeds through the cloth, then repainting the fabric covered walls... but I can't for the life of me figure out what kind of fabric they are talking about and the Lowe's folks don't know, either.

On the topic of the bathroom floor, there were 8x8 rubbery vinyl tiles that are about 1/16" thick and on top of a brown liquid glue on top of a underlayment of some type that appears to sit atop a felted black layer of some type of glue(?) Is that black stuff likely asbestos? I'm tempted to pull the underlayment up and refloor with groutable vinyl tiles, but grrr decisions, decisions. I really want to pull up that underlayment because the floor of the bathroom already is higher than the floor of the adjacent hallway and adding over it it will be close to 1/2" above the hallway :s


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Project update: HardiBacker is up over the plaster and lath with a ridiculous amount of construction adhesive and a copious amount of HardiBacker screws. Tiling begins today. Wish me luck. At least, from my last tile sojourn, I remembered not to be conned by grout additives that only make it a  to work with. 

Plumbing question, if I may, we have a Delta MultiChoice R10000-unbx and the instructions say that the tub spout should be between 8-18" from the multichoice unit, but for comfort we really like the multichoice unit at 21.5" inches higher than the tub spout pipe. What is going to go wrong if I put it at 21.5" higher? Any idea? Also, illustrations online also had a diverter, but my plumbing supplier never mentioned a diverter, and I thought that's what the multichoice accomplished?


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

No more responses for me, huh? I know I've been working hard, but you can't smell me through the computer, can you? :huh:

I tested the shower last night, and it works fine with the 21.5" drop, and there was no diverter needed. It's quite a  to pipe a shower and get the holes in the perfect spaces on the HardiBacker, etc. Next time, I think I will have to hire it out so that my dog doesn't learn my favorite 4 letter words LOL. It took me a LONG time to get the shower stuff put together and through the wall properly, so tiling actually didn't start yesterday, but I guess that's for the better since it gave us time to give a 3rd coat of AquaDefense before we went to bed last night. Wish me luck.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

:thumbsup:The former "nightmare bath" is really coming around. Tomorrow I will complete the tiling. I have a few questions about completion, as this is my first solo flight on wall tiling.

1.) Around the controls for the shower, and the shower head and tub spout, how close should I take the tile? When putting the cosmetic parts of the fixtures in place, are the screws supposed to go through tile and/or grout/mortar, or should I be planning bare spots to they'll simply hit hardibacker? (The fixtures didn't come with instructions)

2.) How quickly after finishing tiling with Mapei type 2 can I grout? (I'm under the gun here for timing. Assuming I finish tiling tomorrow (July 4th), then I still need to grout and seal, and guests who will be using this shower arrive on July 7th. 

3.) I have read a few times that a good strong caulk bead along the top is wise, so that condensation doesn't drip down the wall and go anywhere it shouldn't, and it's also been said it's wise to caulk the corners of the shower, too. Do I grout, then caulk, or should I grout, seal the grout, then caulk? Which way would be most effective?

4.) As soon as I am done tiling tomorrow, I have to retrofit my cabinetry. (I have chosen to use wall cabinets for the "vanity" as it can be no more than 16.75" deep) I have to figure out what to do about the drain lines, and I'm not entirely sure what kind of metal is where in them. There used to be a double sink in that bathroom, and I need to close off the old secondary line permanently and re-route the new one in prep for the new location of the sink. I know when you open up a drain line, you block it so that the sewer gas doesn't come up, but is there anything else I need to remember? It looks as if some of the line is soldered copper, so if that is the case, can I just cut it off at that point and solder on the new fitting? (I guess my mind is running ahead here and wondering if I could accidently spark a fire because of the presence of sewer gas? I have gotten confident enough with my soldering on standard copper lines, but I have done very little with drain work, and the show must go on :laughing

Thank you, in advance, for your always awesome and informative replies. Have a happy, healthy and safe 4th of July :thumbsup:


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

(1) when you install the faucet trim you will usually have a hole approximately 3-6" diameter but this really depends on the faucet. Any screws attaching the trim (face plate) to the valve in the wall will just go through thin air but make sure the hole is within the gasket on the back of the trim ie. the rubber gasket should marry up to tile. Around the shower head and tub spout pipes you should only have perhaps 1/4" clearance all around. 

Need to come back to other questions as on IPhone and don't see the thread when typing responses.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

(2) I usually grout the work day after tiling. Most thinsets are good to grout after 8-12hrs, some sooner. Depends on the room too ... Worked in one place with no heat in a basement and when we say the thinset on the corners when taping taking a full day to dry we let the tile sit for a weekend before grouting.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

(3) use a color matched silicon grout caulk ... Mapei do one as do Custom. I have found the Mapei to be a little truer to the grout color whereas the Custom product had more of a sheen and so stood out as being different from the grout. Basic rule is to use caulking wherever tile meets a different material (eg. Top of wall t ceiling) or where the surface changes plane ie. corners. 

(4) get back to you in the morning ... Late now and being nagged to get to bed


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Bonzai, you're awesome. It's extremely hot and humid here, but the thinset seems to be drying up pretty fast, despite all the moisture in the air outside. I was running low on the spacers I was liking best, and within 5 hours, I was able to begin selectively borrowing spacers to work my fresher areas, and nothing budged a bit. (Spacers were pretty tight in there, too) I have been running A/C because my heat tolerance is lowwwww, but with the tile saw running in that tiny bathroom, I have been opening the window to let the dust out, so gosh I hope I can finish up tomorrow before noon and then get that grout on... so once the thinset has gotten solid and lightened up (I'm using gray thinset, so it gets really light compared to when I'm working it) then I'm good to go on grout even say within 12 hours, huh? That would be awesome, because I really can't wait to get it grouted and sealed. 

Thanks so much for the wisdom. So much has changed in this house, and the valuable wisdom I have gotten at places like this is pretty damn helpful, since I am the handier one and I haven't worked apprenticing my folks on their projects in years and it's not all like riding a bicycle.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Glad to see you are on the final stretch---

Before grouting--scrape out your squeezed up thinset---Be careful that you don't damage the waterproofing with your knife.

If you have a multi tool--those are handy for removing the squeeze up---use your old worn out wood blades---the diamond ones are good,but not a 'must have' for squeeze up.

Don't let the grout get ahead of you--in this heat it will set up fast.

Have several buckets of cold water ready---


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I lost a long post about grouting--Grrrrrrrr.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

What type of tile are you using .. If it is a porous stone make sure to apply at least one coat of sealer BEFORE you grout otherwise the grout will penetrate the tile and you will never get all the haze off.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

(4) I will default to the actual plumbers on here and perhaps you need to create a new thread in the plumbing section unless Mike knows ... I would be looking to see if I could couple a plastic drain line to the copper you have for your vanity rather than trying to run all copper. Never had to try this myself but perhaps it's an option ?? Wondering if there is some sort of compression fitting to do this and what would be to code in most parts. There are rubber clamp couplings but not sure about code for drains going from plastic to metal.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, Mike. There really isn't much squeeze up as I kind of pulled it with the spacers as I was going along, so I wouldn't risk it later and the grout will not be interrupted by thinset anywhere. I'm doing 3x6 glossy ceramic subway tiles with a thin row of fired crackled glass mosaics. I read somewhere that you start sponging off the grout in 15-30 mins? Is that true?I may have my husband sponging one wall while I'm grouting another.

Thanks, Bonzai for all the awesome answers. Dare I say it, I will make my deadline  (OK, it won't be COMPLETE, COMPLETE... as in the paint won't be done and the medicine cabinet and light won't be changed, but the shower will be serviceable and when they leave in 5 days I can throw in all the final touches then. YAY.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Read the grout bag/box for sponge down times ... They can very a little.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

D'oh, I suppose that would be wise, so long as I ignore their attempt to sell me on those expensive additives that made it hell last time,LOL


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Which grout are you using?


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Keracolor-U Pearl Gray. Unsanded by Mapei


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

That stuff sets up fairly fast ... Use it a fair bit. Given the heat you mentioned I would check after 10mins and start sponging.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

Will start grouting in about an hour or so. Like the thinset, I'm aiming for peanut better consistency, right?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Thinner than that--more like yellow mustard


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

oh'mike said:


> Thinner than that--more like yellow mustard


 Good to know. My husband has declared he's getting a nap before he helps so maybe if I am lucky we will be grouting before 6PM central time (grrrr...) 

I didn't get back to you yesterday about all your grouting tips because it took me longer than I had guessed it would to finish the tile. Nothing ever happens as fast as I hope for :laughing:

So I'm looking for yellow mustard consistency. Nice. Last time I worked with that grout with the additive and it was like wet beach sand it was so stiff. Anything else I should know? :huh: 

About how soon can I seal it? (I really want to seal it tomorrow in the morning if I can, and then she shower would be ready for use Sunday morning, right?)


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Overnight is fine.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

D-O-N-E DONE... tomorrow it's caulk and seal, or is it seal and caulk? GAWD that nice looking tile really makes that window look like , but it will be more than aptly covered by a plastic shower curtain until I can Bob Yapp it some time later this year. 








So, caulk and seal or seal and caulk?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Caulk first--sealing is optional in my opinion--Its purpose is to help keep the grout from staining--

You have dark grout---so delaying the sealing of it will do no harm.


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

I thought sealing also fought mold/mildew in that it made it so that it can't settle in as well? 

I know it's no pro job, but wowsers, I think I could stand there and stare with an ear-to-ear grin for hours if I wasn't so ready to drop over tired LOL

You guys, and all the awesome helpful advice, you ROCK!


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

As long as the lady of the house is happy that's what counts ;-)


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

She better be happy! She did a lot of good work!


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## OurHouse (Jun 21, 2011)

You ain't kiddin,' Evstarr. Those half inchers on the left and the window notches were a


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## Valerie Reddick (Aug 2, 2012)

Joe, I am planning on covering directly over my plaster and cement board in my bath from 1937 with tile. The house is in great shape and 2 contractors have said it would be fine if I just covered over it as long as it was clued, grouted and sealed properly once I was done. I have been living with plastic walls for 4 1/2 yrs to keep them from getting wet. The paint has peeled off some in spots behind them but that is all. I have a window over the shower and I do not want to cover over it or loose the light it's also the only bathroom and that window is seen as soon as you drive in. How easy is it to install the glass blocks and can they be cut? Thanks


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Valerie --You need to start a new thread---you will get much more attention--Mike---

There are lots of experienced remodlers here that have faced the same situations ---


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## Valerie Reddick (Aug 2, 2012)

Sorry, newbie here I can not find my other post to see what advise I was given. I am in the process of tiling around my tub area so I can use a shower. I have a window in there that I plan on keeping, I also have plaster and some type of cement board half way down. I also have a chair rail in there between the two. I will not take the walls down as this is my only bath, what is this red guard or paint applied stuff you guys are speaking off? I have been told by a couple of contractors that my walls are better than new tile backing boards they sell now and I can tile right over them if they are glued, grouted and sealed well. Any suggestions?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh--I'll help with the lost post---click on your name in the box on the left---another box will drop down and you will see 'other posts' or 'threads started by' Valerie--

Another way is to click on 'new posts' in the top bar---scroll down looking for a thread with a black box---your posts are flagged like that to make them easier to check on--


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Google-search--Redguard by Custom products (Home Depot) or Hydroban by Latacrete (tile stores)

They are a paint on waterproofing that will keep the plaster walls from getting moist as water works its way through the grout.

Tile and grout are not 'waterproof'--just unaffected by water---that s why only cement based powdered thinset is used to hold the tile----the premixed mastic's in a bucket can re-emulsify if they get wet and cause mold and loose tiles---


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Tiling Over Plaster And Cement Board And The Widnow Issue Over The Tub/shower Area - Carpentry - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum


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