# Deck post not plumb issue



## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Hello everyone, I'm in the middle of doing my first deck job, and I'm afraid I might have a problem on my hands. I'm extending out my existing deck 10'. Everything has gone great, but one of my posts are not very plumb. The reason for this is because I had a hell of a time digging the post holes. The ground over here is full of rocks. It seems that the auger drifted while I was digging. once I was done digging I realized that my holes were no longer perfectly aligned, but I thought I could get away with that. I Notched out my posts and rested the carry beam in the notch. I then added a 2x6 cleat to the face of the post/beam combo, and bolted all three together. However one post is leaning slightly back to align itself with the other post. The beam itself is level and straight. Before I added the concrete I brought a contractor friend to look at it, and he thought it was alright. I then buried both posts with concrete. I know burying posts is a controversy in itself, but I'm not worried about that now. All I want to know is if I have something to worry about with my unplumb post? I know what my friend said, but I would like some second opinions. The post is about 42" in the ground, and is about 24" out of the ground. 

The attached picture shows the post, and you can see the shadow being cast by the beam showing the "unplumbness" of the post.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That doesn't look to bad---does the post position cause your girder to be out of line?

Next time--use cast piers with metal fasteners--no buried post--

Posts buried in the earth will no longer pass inspection in this area----


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

I never notch support columns I build on top of them and work my way up from there notching support posts weakens them. If your below the frost line and the post is secure enough not to move you'll probably be OK.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

It would have been pretty easy to correct before you poured, not much you can do about it now. 

The deck isn’t going to fail because of it if that’s what your asking. 

I’d be more concerned with how you have the ledger board attached directly to the siding. I cant tell from the picture if you have the board spaced off the wall or not. It doesn’t look like it but you should if you’re not going to cut the siding out and flash the ledger properly.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm in the middle of doing my first deck job, and I'm afraid I might have a problem on my hands. I'm extending out my existing deck 10'. Everything has gone great, but one of my posts are not very plumb. The reason for this is because I had a hell of a time digging the post holes. The ground over here is full of rocks. It seems that the auger drifted while I was digging. once I was done digging I realized that my holes were no longer perfectly aligned, but I thought I could get away with that. I Notched out my posts and rested the carry beam in the notch. I then added a 2x6 cleat to the face of the post/beam combo, and bolted all three together. However one post is leaning slightly back to align itself with the other post. The beam itself is level and straight. Before I added the concrete I brought a contractor friend to look at it, and he thought it was alright. I then buried both posts with concrete. I know burying posts is a controversy in itself, but I'm not worried about that now. All I want to know is if I have something to worry about with my unplumb post? I know what my friend said, but I would like some second opinions. The post is about 42" in the ground, and is about 24" out of the ground.
> 
> The attached picture shows the post, and you can see the shadow being cast by the beam showing the "unplumbness" of the post.


Can you give me one good reason why you would bury the posts in the ground?

And is the ledger nailed to the siding?


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't have a good reason for why I buried the posts other than that's what I was told to do. In the future I don't plan on burying them. I built the whole thing kind of backwards. The outer joists and ledger board were not fully secured yet. The siding is now off and the Ledger is attached with 10 1/2" lag bolts.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Your deck is not built in accordance with International Residential Code, and probably not in accordance with any other code. So I am assuming that you live in an area with no code requirements. Most people elect to build according to IRC guidelines even if they are not subject to code, because it provides a solid design framework, and if you follow IRC guidelines you will almost always be OK.

So for example, you cannot bury posts by IRC rules. Posts must by a minimum of 6x6 PT, supported on a galvanized metal bracket. Ledgers have very specific attachment details. Etc. So my suggestion is the next time you have a deck to build, you may want to consider downloading the IRC guidelines (free on the internet) and following them.

Regardless, you have already built it, and the fact that the post is a bit out of plumb is not a huge problem. The comments about the need for careful flashing of the ledger are spot on, the penetrations for the lag bolts can allow moisture to get behind the ledger and the siding and cause serious trouble.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

sm424 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm in the middle of doing my first deck job, and I'm afraid I might have a problem on my hands. I'm extending out my existing deck 10'. Everything has gone great, but one of my posts are not very plumb. The reason for this is because I had a hell of a time digging the post holes. The ground over here is full of rocks. It seems that the auger drifted while I was digging. once I was done digging I realized that my holes were no longer perfectly aligned, but I thought I could get away with that. I Notched out my posts and rested the carry beam in the notch. I then added a 2x6 cleat to the face of the post/beam combo, and bolted all three together. However one post is leaning slightly back to align itself with the other post. The beam itself is level and straight. Before I added the concrete I brought a contractor friend to look at it, and he thought it was alright. I then buried both posts with concrete. I know burying posts is a controversy in itself, but I'm not worried about that now. All I want to know is if I have something to worry about with my unplumb post? I know what my friend said, but I would like some second opinions. The post is about 42" in the ground, and is about 24" out of the ground.
> 
> The attached picture shows the post, and you can see the shadow being cast by the beam showing the "unplumbness" of the post.



Hi, may I ask, how out of plumb is the post for the part that sticks 24" out of the ground? it does not look bad at all in the pic. do you have 1/2" out of plumb or so?


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

What is the span from the side of the house to the edge of the deck? I assume the 10' was out from the old deck. I would be concerned in general that perhaps you need additional supports. Also the wonky post may start to twist and that corner of the deck may drop slightly as not only is it cantilevered out but the post already not being plumb the forces are going to want to in part twist the whole deck.
I take it you didn't get a permit ... This would fail inspection for many reasons here. Those posts will prematurely rot. Personally I would start over and do it right. The posts need to be elevated above the ground ... Here we pour the footings to 8" above the soil. When you buried the posts in concrete did you use sona tubes backfilled with gravel and then compact it down around the posts ... Reason I ask is if the soil is loose around the concrete embedded posts especially with all the bits of rock (may be lots of air pockets) then when it rains the wonky post may move.

It might well stay standing at least until the base of the posts rot out, but this is clearly not how a deck should be built. Now is your chance to do it right before you finish the framing, lay deck boards and build a railing.

Further ... Depending on height you may be able to get away with installing the posts on preformed concrete post blocks if you cut the existing ones off at the ground level ... Hope that made sense.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

It also looks like you used 2 X 6's not 2 X 8's, your going to get some bounce and sag over time.
Would have been far better to have built the deck as a free standing deck so there's 0 way the wall can get rotted out.

Did you at least put Storm and Ice shield of the wall under the ledger?


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

joecaption said:


> It also looks like you used 2 X 6's not 2 X 8's, your going to get some bounce and sag over time.
> Would have been far better to have built the deck as a free standing deck so there's 0 way the wall can get rotted out.
> 
> Did you at least put Storm and Ice shield of the wall under the ledger?


Ditto. I would be concerned the size of timber used is insufficient for the span.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> I don't have a good reason for why I buried the posts other than that's what I was told to do. In the future I don't plan on burying them. I built the whole thing kind of backwards. The outer joists and ledger board were not fully secured yet. The siding is now off and the Ledger is attached with 10 1/2" lag bolts.


Do you need permits and inspections where your from?


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

I'll confess to all my sins. First off I did not get a permit. This is my second home that I go to maybe 1 month out of the year. I don't host parties on the deck, and the entire extension is relatively small, and won't see that much action, so I thought I could get away with it. I did use 2x6s because that was what the old deck was built of, and it has so far lasted 25 years. The old deck is completely not in accordance with code. Posts are buried, ledger is attached to the house without any flashing, beams are bolted to the sides of 4x4 posts. Seeing all that I thought I can cut corners. Most of what I did I kept within code, I did install flashing and cut off the siding, I did use 6x6 posts, and I notched and bolted my posts to the beams. I feel kinda dump for not pouring normal footings now. I was afraid the J-Bolts were not gonna give me any play if my holes were misaligned ( which is how they did ended up), and my carry beam would have been sideways.The joists are going to be placed 12" apart, so I think my span is alright even with the weaker 2x6 lumber. Before i go further, would it make sense at this point to cut the posts at ground level and set down a pier? remember that under the pier would be a concrete/ post combo.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Keep it nice--both of you---

Your friendly neighborhood Moderator---Mike---


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> Keep it nice--both of you---
> 
> Your friendly neighborhood Moderator---Mike---


I was being nice Mike. No reason to delete my post. 

You should delete threads like this about people doing illegal work and no building to code and admitting it.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Joe--I am not here to be a cop or a conscience---that's between him and god.

I answer the questions asked--stop nasty comments and ban spam---

That's my duty here. --Mike---


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> Joe--I am not here to be a cop or a conscience---that's between him and god.
> 
> I answer the questions asked--stop nasty comments and ban spam---
> 
> That's my duty here. --Mike---


Ok...why was my post deleted?


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Listen Joe, nothing is more foolish than to make assumptions about who I am and what I was trying to do. I'm not someone that looks to do things illegally, in fact I have never broken a law in my life. I planned on doing everything to code and getting a permit. The contractor who built the place 25 years ago is still the one that does the maintenance over there. I asked him about the permit and how to set my posts. He told me for something so small not to worry about a permit and that he has always buried posts without a problem. He has built 80 units that way and they are all standing just fine today, so I shouldn't worry about putting posts in the ground. Don't make me out to be some sort of villain because of a stupid small project.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

It was deleted for name calling---Nasty get moved to trash--His response vanished also--I really don't like nasty name calling---

Now, I'm going to go cook some burgers and look for some sweet relish---Mike---


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> It was deleted for name calling---Nasty get moved to trash--His response vanished also--I really don't like nasty name calling---
> 
> Now, I'm going to go cook some burgers and look for some sweet relish---Mike---


Mike,

I didn't call him any names...or was nasty. I spoke the truth....we are not 10 years old here to speak the truth. So enjoy your burger.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Joe Carola said:


> Mike,
> 
> I didn't call him any names...or was nasty. I spoke the truth....we are not 10 years old here to speak the truth. So enjoy your burger.


Admitting to my mistake of not getting a permit was speaking the truth, and a real man admits when he was wrong. A child says things alone the lines of "oh, ignore him, he is another fool looking for a way out."


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> Admitting to my mistake of not getting a permit was speaking the truth, and a real man admits when he was wrong. A child says things alone the lines of "oh, ignore him, he is another fool looking for a way out."


What you did wasn't a mistake. You knew it was illegal to build the deck from the start. Now since you were called out on what you did and it biting you in the a$$....you want help.

People should ignore people who do illegal things. Nothing childish about me saying that. 

If you want to act like a real man.....call your building department and tell them what you did and ask them for help. What do you have to say about that?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Joe although you are correct you are being foolish about it, your wisdom will get lost in the tone of your answers.

The best thing to do is to talk to your building department as Joe has said. They may in fact say that no permit is needed and may give you some direction in what you seek. Or they may say Yes you do need a permit.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

mae-ling said:


> Joe although you are correct you are being foolish about it, your wisdom will get lost in the tone of your answers.
> 
> The best thing to do is to talk to your building department as Joe has said. They may in fact say that no permit is needed and may give you some direction in what you seek. Or they may say Yes you do need a permit.


And you are being foolish for helping a guy who knowingly does illegal work.

I do not care about the tone of my posts to someone who does stuff like this and does not care. If I'm to harsh....to bad...they need to.hear it.

This forum should not condone people doing illegal work and worrying about me hurting their feelings.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

It is foolish to help him to do the work legally? To guide him and show him the need to do it right.
Yes he started out wronge but still has the opportunity to finish right.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

sm424 said:


> Listen Joe, nothing is more foolish than to make assumptions about who I am and what I was trying to do. I'm not someone that looks to do things illegally, in fact I have never broken a law in my life. I planned on doing everything to code and getting a permit. The contractor who built the place 25 years ago is still the one that does the maintenance over there. I asked him about the permit and how to set my posts. He told me for something so small not to worry about a permit and that he has always buried posts without a problem. He has built 80 units that way and they are all standing just fine today, so I shouldn't worry about putting posts in the ground. Don't make me out to be some sort of villain because of a stupid small project.


I think you're contractor friend needs to get with the times ... Not only isn't the quality of basic timber what it used to be but codes have changed a lot in the last 25 years and they continue to evolve for reasons of safety, new techniques and products, durability, energy efficiency, etc etc. I know this is going a bit off track but a contractor who disregards basic code is not someone I would have near my home (or even my shed).


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

In my area it is still Ok to bury posts although it is considered better to pour concrete and then put posts in a bracket.


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

To the OP's point about positioning new post blocks over the buried concrete/stump ... Personally I would feel happier with that than what you currently have but there are code requirements as to how high the deck can be on such footings versus proper buried footings. 

Out of interest ... Are you somewhere that gets frost in winter or are you somewhere hot all year? I don't recall if you said your concrete buried posts go as far as the frost line (4' here but varies by location).


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

mae-ling said:


> In my area it is still Ok to bury posts although it is considered better to pour concrete and then put posts in a bracket.


I stand corrected ... Surprised, but corrected ;-)


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Joe Carola said:


> And you are being foolish for helping a guy who knowingly does illegal work.
> 
> I do not care about the tone of my posts to someone who does stuff like this and does not care. If I'm to harsh....to bad...they need to.hear it.
> 
> This forum should not condone people doing illegal work and worrying about me hurting their feelings.


You're totally wrong. A little home project is not "illegal work". I'm not this evil contractor or carpenter going house to house putting up dangerous structures. Seriously, what's stuck up your behind? Don't make it like you have never done a wrong thing in your life.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Bonzai said:


> To the OP's point about positioning new post blocks over the buried concrete/stump ... Personally I would feel happier with that than what you currently have but there are code requirements as to how high the deck can be on such footings versus proper buried footings.
> 
> Out of interest ... Are you somewhere that gets frost in winter or are you somewhere hot all year? I don't recall if you said your concrete buried posts go as far as the frost line (4' here but varies by location).


We do get frost and the posts are close to 4' deep.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> You're totally wrong. A little home project is not "illegal work". I'm not this evil contractor or carpenter going house to house putting up dangerous structures. Seriously, what's stuck up your behind? Don't make it like you have never done a wrong thing in your life.


You going to call your building department and tell them what you did like I said. Can you answer this or will you avoid answering this again?


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Joe Carola said:


> You going to call your building department and tell them what you did like I said. Can you answer this or will you avoid answering this again?


I'll do that tomorrow.

You should admit you're wrong for painting a false picture of who I am. It's not smart to talk when you don't know. I've always been a hobby woodworker, but I recently decided to move on to all aspects of carpentry. I've been trying to get apprenticeships, but almost everyone today hires "illegals" who work for next to nothing, and are not future competition threats to the company. In the mean time I've been practicing on my family's home. Like I said I'll call the building department tomorrow and explain to them what I did, but I still don't believe I committed a crime. Especially when you consider what I just said above about how many illegals work for contractors, don't pay taxes. and take away the jobs of people that are legal citizens. Two wrongs don't make a right, but this deck extension is a joke compared to the true crimes and dangers that are committed


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> I'll do that.


Sounds like a plan. Thank you!


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## lewisthepilgrim (Dec 8, 2011)

dude, If I were you, I would fix the ledger board on the exsisting deck ASAP. you don't know WHAT kind of damage it might be doing to your house without flashing !


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

sm424 said:


> I'll do that tomorrow.
> 
> You should admit you're wrong for painting a false picture of who I am. It's not smart to talk when you don't know. I've always been a hobby woodworker, but I recently decided to move on to all aspects of carpentry. I've been trying to get apprenticeships, but almost everyone today hires "illegals" who work for next to nothing, and are not future competition threats to the company. In the mean time I've been practicing on my family's home. Like I said I'll call the building department tomorrow and explain to them what I did, but I still don't believe I committed a crime.....


To Clarify; The Building Dept, and related inspections fall under Public Safety. That means that you can be subject to fines, penalties and also jail-time if you are found to be in violation of specific codes, laws and regulations. So yes, building without permit(s) is considered "illegal", even, if your prefer not to view it that way.

Now that being said, be prepared for a 2x to 3x permit cost. That is the general penalty for not pulling a permit in most areas (I cannot speak for all).

Either way, going to the Building Dept first is always the best option.


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## utahjd1 (Oct 2, 2011)

If you are spaning 10' with 2x6 pt you really need to put a center beam in to help carry the load. You should me using 2x8.......Even though I don't believe in using a 2x6 on anything other then a wall I am building a 10'x8' deck on my property. But I have 2 beams under it (The reason for me using 2x6 is I have a crap load left over from a project).


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

sm424 said:


> Like I said I'll call the building department tomorrow and explain to them what I did, but I still don't believe I committed a crime. Especially when you consider what I just said above about how many illegals work for contractors, don't pay taxes. and take away the jobs of people that are legal citizens. Two wrongs don't make a right, but this deck extension is a joke compared to the true crimes and dangers that are committed


Amen to that. If people want to say their piece such as "consult your local building dept," fine, but the guy doesn't need nor is this the place to lecture him. Please take the "holier than thou" BS elsewhere. Yes it's "illegal" to not pull a permit for many things, but so is driving 60mph in a 55 mph zone, and I'd also argue that pulling a permit for many things is entirely unneccessary and stupid in some areas. As mike (the mod) said, it's between him and God.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> Amen to that. If people want to say their piece such as "consult your local building dept," fine, but the guy doesn't need nor is this the place to lecture him. Please take the "holier than thou" BS elsewhere. Yes it's "illegal" to not pull a permit for many things, but so is driving 60mph in a 55 mph zone, and I'd also argue that pulling a permit for many things is entirely unneccessary and stupid in some areas. As mike (the mod) said, it's between him and God.


Another Diy'er who doesn't get it. We are talking about construction not speed limits.

People who knowingly do illegal construction work and then screw it up and come here looking for a fix need to be lectured. It's that simple!

This isn't supposed to be a forum condoning this and ignoring it. People here should tell/lecture them about this especially with structural work.


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## coupe (Nov 25, 2011)

while I agree, rules and regulations should be followed. I also agree many times, inspections and permits are simple a means of income for townships/ municipalities. I do not believe this forum was designed to monitor or enforce those rules. this is supposed to be a place for those with more experience and knowledge, to help those with less. for example, I bought my new home in 2001, I wanted a storage shed in the back yard, I inquired about permit to have a 12'x16' pre built shed delivered and set up. my township wanted $200 for a 120 square foot shed delivered. however, I could build one myself up to 300 square feet with no permit, and really no restrictions of code other than height, 2x4 construction with nails, no staples, and a 10' set back from all property lines,+ any structure has to compliment the integrity of the property. in fact they want a permit costing $150 to change the color of any outside part of my home, right down to the shutters. I appealed to our association for permission to bring in my shed. as they must approve it's location on my property. after two years I heard nothing, I contacted to lawyer for our association. he sent me a letter telling me to put the shed where I wanted, whatever size I wanted as long as 25% of my property remained clear. the next week,I had a 16'x20' shed, 320 square feet delivered and placed. I'm uncertain of the actual set backs as the builder wont have official surveys done until this project is complete and turned over to the township.

also, I've built enough commercial buildings in 37 years to know that architects and engineers are in cahoots with certain manufacturers of building supplies, when you see their names/stamps on blueprints requiring certain fasteners and clips made by company xxx-ooo. and you're building the buildings 2-300 miles apart.

it's all about the money as far as I'm concerned.

Larry/coupe


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Joe Carola said:


> Another Diy'er who doesn't get it. We are talking about construction not speed limits.


It's called an analogy. https://www.google.com/search?q=analogy



> People who knowingly do illegal construction work and then screw it up and come here looking for a fix need to be lectured. It's that simple!
> 
> This isn't supposed to be a forum condoning this and ignoring it. People here should tell/lecture them about this especially with structural work.


As I said, saying your piece is fine, but you think you're going to change someone over an internet forum? :laughing: I don't think anyone is condoning illegal things, but there are plenty of LOGICAL reasons why people don't pull permits for certain things, and it's not because the counties and inspectors are overly helpful. "Illegal" is relative, hence the analogy I gave to you.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> It's called an analogy. https://www.google.com/search?q=analogy
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, saying your piece is fine, but you think you're going to change someone over an internet forum? :laughing: I don't think anyone is condoning illegal things, but there are plenty of LOGICAL reasons why people don't pull permits for certain things, and it's not because the counties and inspectors are overly helpful. "Illegal" is relative, hence the analogy I gave to you.


"WoW I agree with both of you."


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Alright this "hardened criminal" is back. I spoke to the inspector this morning and he said they actually still prefer that you BURY the posts in the ground. I explained how I've been told that international code today is to pour a footing then place a bracket on top, and post above that. He said that is one method, but there is nothing wrong with setting a post in the ground and packing it with dirt... He'll come check it out, and he knows my contractor friend, so I don't believe I'll get any fine for beginning the construction without the permit. However, I did realize I made one other potentially big mistake and that is my post has some concrete around it. When I stuck the post in I poured concrete up half away around the post and filled the rest with soil. How big of a problem is the premature rooting I can expect? Is there anyway to rectify this without digging up the posts? Maybe setting a floating pier with a post and bracket next to the posts that are already there?


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Joe Carola said:


> Another Diy'er who doesn't get it. We are talking about construction not speed limits.
> 
> People who knowingly do illegal construction work and then screw it up and come here looking for a fix need to be lectured. It's that simple!
> 
> This isn't supposed to be a forum condoning this and ignoring it. People here should tell/lecture them about this especially with structural work.


And you still don't get that I didn't "knowingly" do Illegal work. I did know about getting a permit when doing construction, but I didn't think for something this small it was necessary. I'm not a contractor, so I'm not familiar with these rules and regulations. You live and learn, we all do. Doesn't mean you have to come on here with guns blazing, scolding anyone that made a mistake.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

utahjd1 said:


> If you are spaning 10' with 2x6 pt you really need to put a center beam in to help carry the load. You should me using 2x8.......Even though I don't believe in using a 2x6 on anything other then a wall I am building a 10'x8' deck on my property. But I have 2 beams under it (The reason for me using 2x6 is I have a crap load left over from a project).


I have two beams one foot in on both sides spanning 8'. The old deck is built of 4x4 posts and 2x6s, it's held up well for 25 years.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> Amen to that. If people want to say their piece such as "consult your local building dept," fine, but the guy doesn't need nor is this the place to lecture him. Please take the "holier than thou" BS elsewhere. Yes it's "illegal" to not pull a permit for many things, but so is driving 60mph in a 55 mph zone, and I'd also argue that pulling a permit for many things is entirely unneccessary and stupid in some areas. As mike (the mod) said, it's between him and God.


How about the "righteous" contractors driving around in their HD trucks (aka bomb on wheels) talking on their cell phones... The list goes on and on of so many worse things we see on a daily basis... I'll agree though that when doing construction their are potential dangers that can be put up by people that don't care about rules, and it's comforting to know that an inspector (I'm guessing civil engineer) approved the structure.


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

Hey Sm424,

Good for you for sticking it out here while being lambasted from all sides. Most of the people here like to do things RIGHT and that often includes permits and inspections. So I'm glad to hear you called the inspector and please report back his comments on the post.

I don't have an answer but a quick question: Are the posts pressure treated?


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Jan 20, 2006)

I have been in construction my whole life and I can tell you if it for my property and I can get away with it I don't pull permits. I don't need to give the towship any mroe money then I already do. I am well versed in many trades and if I don't know something I ask a friend who does. That said is your post ok? Ya it will be fine. Does it look bad expecially cause it is on the outside edge? Yep loks like ahack job to me. Joe you need to back off.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

sm424 said:


> And you still don't get that I didn't "knowingly" do Illegal work. I did know about getting a permit when doing construction, but I didn't think for something this small it was necessary. I'm not a contractor, so I'm not familiar with these rules and regulations. You live and learn, we all do. Doesn't mean you have to come on here with guns blazing, scolding anyone that made a mistake.


Good luck!


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

RYANINMICHIGAN said:


> Joe you need to back off.


And you need to mind your buisness. I don't have to back off from anything. You don't like what I have to say don't post to me.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> It's called an analogy. https://www.google.com/search?q=analogy
> 
> As I said, saying your piece is fine, but you think you're going to change someone over an internet forum? :laughing: I don't think anyone is condoning illegal things, but there are plenty of LOGICAL reasons why people don't pull permits for certain things, and it's not because the counties and inspectors are overly helpful. "Illegal" is relative, hence the analogy I gave to you.


Bad analogy. Your analogy means nothing. So many p eople come here knowingly doing illegal structural and dangerous work not getting permits and inspections. Then they come here wanting advice how to fix it.

If no one says anything...no chance on changing someone's mind. People might change their mind hearing it before they do something stupid. So for me its worth saying something. You do what you want I couldn't care less.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Joe your posts are getting ridiculous in my opinion. I would appreciate it if you would drop it. 
He now realizes he needs permits.


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## Joe Carola (Apr 14, 2006)

mae-ling said:


> Joe your posts are getting ridiculous in my opinion. I would appreciate it if you would drop it.
> He now realizes he needs permits.


Your opinion means nothing. I've already said what I had to say to the OP. It's always been between the OP and myself. You and a few others won't let it go by posting to me. Mind your business and stop posting to me with your ridiculous posts.


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Jan 20, 2006)

Joe Carola said:


> Your opinion means nothing. I've already said what I had to say to the OP. It's always been between the OP and myself. You and a few others won't let it go by posting to me. Mind your business and stop posting to me with your ridiculous posts.


 
You are something else.:thumbsup:


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

*THIS IS A WARNING:* To all participants in this thread.

*DO NOT* promote, urge, support, or condone any form of ILLEGAL, IMPROPER, or CODE VIOLATING actions (projects, repairs, etc) - ON THIS SITE...period.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

I say lesson learned, I raise my right hand and promise to get a permit next time I do any sort of construction work. I mean that seriously (joe you win  you got a man to think over the internet about what he's doing). It was an honest rookie misconception of code. period. lets get back on topic now. I'm thinking the inspector is gonna have me redo the posts. He already told me that my other mistake of encasing my treated post in concrete was another bad move. He predicts it will rot out in about 10 years. I'm still wondering if I can simply place a new post on one of those floating piers and bolt it alongside my "to be rotted out" post just as a fail safe for the future? It would beat trying to dig out the old post. I'm really hitting my head against the wall for not simply filling a sonotube of concrete and placing the bracket on top. I was already done the hard part of digging past the frost line. Next time...


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

Whether or not you can use a post pier block comes down, here in BC any way, to the deck height above the ground. On a side note ... I was looking at a 4 story deck/fire escape rebuild in Vancouver yesterday ... Scary thing is the numb nuts who built it used just square concrete blocks to support the posts for the last section of stair which is crazy steep and has about 35 treads. The posts are relying on friction it would seem as no hardware at all. They then used 3x8 lumber as the posts supporting the 4th floor deck (which are buried in the ground) and added some 1x4 to 'strengthen' them up. This thing was wrong in just so many ways ;-). I was scared just being up there and it's the main means of entry for the 4th floor tenant!!

Anyways I detract a tad


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## Tham (May 27, 2012)

Posting here first would help so many. They might not pull a permit. But they could learn a 2x6 only spans so far, not just as long as they want it to.

Tham


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

I love how people want to avoid paying taxes and other such fines and fees, however they all up in arms when the city,county, country, etc is low on funds and begins to make cuts. When the fire department has to lay off firemen and increase response times, when the local park lawns are no longer watered, when the pot holes and streets are in disrepair, etc. Who exactly pays for all these city services? I do, you do, we all do (well, most of us do, those who like to skirt the law don't) Thanks for raising MY taxes and fees because YOU didn't pay your share. 

Just a little rant.


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

Tham said:


> Posting here first would help so many. They might not pull a permit. But they could learn a 2x6 only spans so far, not just as long as they want it to.
> 
> Tham


If you're looking at my first pic and thinking that was my span, you would be wrong  Everything is on hold now, but my plan was a 12" span between my 2x6 joists. The existing deck has 2x6 joists that are still good after 25 years. If I were making a new deck I would have gone with 2x8 joists.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> *THIS IS A WARNING:* To all participants in this thread.
> 
> *DO NOT* promote, urge, support, or condone any form of ILLEGAL, IMPROPER, or CODE VIOLATING actions (projects, repairs, etc) - ON THIS SITE...period.



Not all places have the same code, This is not a US only site as many are here from other countries and code and the enforcement of it differs.
What is illegal, improper(in whose opinion?) or code violating can vary greatly.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

mae-ling said:


> Not all places have the same code, This is not a US only site as many are here from other countries and code and the enforcement of it differs.
> What is illegal, improper(in whose opinion?) or code violating can vary greatly.


 
Re-read the statement. There is *NOTHING* mentioned there about permits, or the U.S., or any other specific locality.

The warning is about *NOT DOING, and NOT PROMOTING the DOING OF ----- ANYTHING CONSIDERED ILLEGAL* (in your area):


*THIS IS A WARNING:* To all participants in this thread.

*DO NOT* promote, urge, support, or condone any form of ILLEGAL, IMPROPER, or CODE VIOLATING actions (projects, repairs, etc) - ON THIS SITE...period.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

I did read the statement.
Unfortunately some hear think their code (or their interpretation of it) is "the code".


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## Bonzai (Oct 29, 2010)

mae-ling said:


> I did read the statement.
> Unfortunately some hear think their code (or their interpretation of it) is "the code".


Personally I think that's another good reason for anyone on here to have their location in their profile ... I feel it should be mandatory. That way anyone responding can factor in location rather than guessing what may or may not apply for them. Just a thought :whistling2:


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## sm424 (Jun 17, 2012)

*Update*

not to my surprise the encased post wasn't gonna fly with the inspector. My friends brought his backhoe over and we dug it out. A proper footing has been poured, but the deck extension is on hold for now.


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