# What is this called? (Overhead Power to Detached Garage)



## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

First post here, just bought a home and have very little idea what I'm doing, or what pretty much anything is called... please give me a little grace. 

Here is my situation. I have a detached garage with the power wires running overhead (around 10' run). Currently they are attached with three little ceramic loops that screw into the side board of my garage. Problem is I want to install rain gutters so I'd like to move them. I installed a Flashing and pipe in the roof to relocate everything so it's removed from the wood, and that seems to be fine. However, I cannot seem to find what I need to attach the power wires (in a code friendly way) to the pipe I have coming out of the roof... All the ceramic loop thingys that I talked about have a screw end, so they are made to go into wood. 

I talked to a gentleman at HomeDepot who seemed to believe they made something that was like an 8" bar, with these ceramic loop extenders bolted on, but for the life of me I cannot find anything online. anyone know the name of what I'm looking for?

Any other thoughts I should be aware of?

Thanks!


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

Where do you live?

Can you take some pictures?


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

Pictures of what you have would be great.

Have you considered just having an electrician do this? This sounds like a quick job, it shouldn't cost too much.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok, I live in LA County, CA. (Van Nuys, CA)

I'll try and get some pictures up soon. But in the mean time I drew this crappy drawing to illustrate what I mean.



Using an entrance cap similar to this.
Couldn't find a good example of the insulated ties, but they currently look something like this.
I might consider an electrician, I just like to learn, and if I paid someone to do everything (especially easy things) than I'd never learn anything.


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

He needs to have the weatherhead extended.


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## fabrk8r (Feb 12, 2010)

Or are you just looking for insulators?


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

Real pictures of each side will help. Currently I am not understanding what you have and what you are looking to change it to.

I agree that it's nice to do things yourself. But some things just make sense to have someone else do it. Sometimes you learn best by watching someone else the first time.

The only reason I recommend an electrician is because it would be quick and easy for him so it wouldn't cost you too much. It would also ensure that it is done correctly and be warrantied. An overhead line could be dangerous if not installed correctly.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm looking for the part that will tie the wires from the house to this pole. I was told they need to be a certain distance apart from each other, and that there was "something" (trying to figure out the name) specific that I could use (a bar similar to what I drew) that would provide the 3 insulated posts to I can go up into my entrance cap.

HD sells wood screw posts only and I didn't want to stick a block of wood up there for obvious reasons.


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

kronic24601 said:


> I'm looking for the part that will tie the wires from the house to this pole. I was told they need to be a certain distance apart from each other, and that there was "something" (trying to figure out the name) specific that I could use (a bar similar to what I drew) that would provide the 3 insulated posts to I can go up into my entrance cap.
> 
> HD sells wood screw posts only and I didn't want to stick a block of wood up there for obvious reasons.


Who told you that they need to be a certain distance apart? The wires are separated the entire run across the yard?


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

Real Pictures would probably help 

But yes there are three separate wires running overhead from the House to the Garage. I thought about going under ground, but there is brick and concrete covering everything so that would not be easy.

..........|-0-----------------0-|
Garage |-0-----------------0-| House
..........|-0-----------------0-|

Oh, and the HomeDepot Employee told me they needed to be a distance apart ... obviously the fact that I'm taking advice from a HD employee says alot about what I know ...


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok, so I understand what you are saying, but the situation is still a bit of a mystery.

Are the 3 conductors uninsulated? I've never see an instance like this which required the conductors to be separated for a garage feeder.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

The wires have insulation, but it's not like they are very thick. If memory recalls the wires looked like maybe 14 gauge? Insulation was minimal, and as expected cracking here and there. Currently, each wire is about 3 inches apart from one another.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

In the old days, the conductors were hung separated as shown. Nowadays a bare steel combination ground and guy (ground and guy and neutral for service entrances) has the (insulated) hot conductors gently spiral wrapped around it.

Today you need four conductors for 120/240 volt feeds, two hots and neutral on the insulated loops as shown and a ground wire which can be hung below.


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

kronic24601 said:


> The wires have insulation, but it's not like they are very thick. If memory recalls the wires looked like maybe 14 gauge? Insulation was minimal, and as expected cracking here and there. Currently, each wire is about 3 inches apart from one another.


OK, I see. Since you don't have a carrier the wires are just run over separately.

I did a bit of searching and can't find what you need. What you can do is make up something using a piece of Uni-strut (Versa-Bar). You can attach the Uni-strut to the mast with a pipe strap and then attach each insulator to the Uni-Strut individually. This will give the all metal look.

I would also think about completely removing this cable and installing a proper overhead line. This would allow you to size the conductors for future upgrades.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

What would be a proper overhead line if you don't mind me asking ?

I was kind of hoping I could just merge them into 1 cable, something a bit cleaner, but wasn't sure what to do.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Are you refering to this type of new overhead quadplex cable like this??










Merci.
Marc


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

kronic24601 said:


> What would be a proper overhead line if you don't mind me asking ?
> 
> I was kind of hoping I could just merge them into 1 cable, something a bit cleaner, but wasn't sure what to do.


Marc posted a picture above. It will look better, be safer, and give you more ampacity out in the garage. 

If the insulation on the wires you have up there now is cracking, it's best not to twist them together.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

That is one of the most common item I used pretty often on overhead runs run the quadplex that way you can meet the code without any issue at all.

I haven't check the recent price of quadplex overhead cable yet. { For USA side }

You can able get them in 16mm²{#6 AWG } or larger but 35mm²{#2 AWG } is most common size I useally order.

The ampacity will varies depending on the distance and size of the conductors.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok Pardon my ignorance, But where does the quadplex cable tie into the service entrance? Does it just go up and down, or is it tied off somewhere?

Also, is this common/acceptable to use for a house to garage?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

How are the wires at the house connected?
They should connect to the panel, and not to the service.


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

Well there are 2 wires coming out of a hole in the wall. Then the third is just a screw into the metal bracket on the outside of the wall. Then all three (separately) travel across the breezeway and connect to the garage.

It all looks very shady to me.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

kronic24601 said:


> Well there are 2 wires coming out of a hole in the wall. Then the third is just a screw into the metal bracket on the outside of the wall. Then all three (separately) travel across the breezeway and connect to the garage.
> 
> It all looks very shady to me.


Pretty close to that and you say 3 exsting conductor some case the middle one is used for traveller for lamp useage { this part is illgeal per modern code due it will switch either hot or netural depending on the 3 way switch postion so if that the case it may be a good time to figure out and ditch that one and do it right }

Merci.
Marc


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

*Photos!*

Ok It took me forever to get these (was out of town for the weekend), but here they are. I will be having an electrician come out later today, but just to keep him honest, I thought I see what you guys think 

The order of the photos is sorta mis-matched but it goes

1) Garage Entrance
2) Flashing and Pipe I installed, not connected, but I was planning on moving it over there somehow (the pipe still needs to be cut a bit and a Entrance Cap installed)
3) Exit from house (Only two wires coming out of house, the third is just a screw on that metal piece).
4) A Wider View of the Garage Entrance.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

I have see that before many time it will be either 120/240 volt circuit OR 120 volt with farmer three way circuit for light { the latter part is illgeal if that the case } OR 120 volt circuit with one light circuit for outdoor luminaires.

So it will be one of the three diffrent set up.

Merci.
Marc


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

Let me ask this. I'll be running AC, Lights, Misc Tools, And other items ... none specifically requiring 240... but is there some specific setup I "should" have out to the garage? Best practice?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

kronic24601 said:


> Let me ask this. I'll be running AC, Lights, Misc Tools, And other items ... none specifically requiring 240... but is there some specific setup I "should" have out to the garage? Best practice?


If you going to stay with overhead drop you will need to use the quadplex cable as I show the photo above due teh reason why you will have more than just two circuits in the garage plus what more you will have 240 volts avablile in case you have larger air compressor or welder going to be used in the garage so I know it may cost little more upfront but you don't have to regret it later if you want a 240 volt circuit.

And ., Yeah you will need a subpanel anyway if you going have more than just two circuits IMO It will be the best move if you going go that route otherwise a 4.0mm² triple aka 12-3 UF cable with messeger cable to support and use a double pole switch as your disconnect source and after that you can branch out one circuit for lighting and second one is for your receptales.

so there are few ways it can be done depending on big the set up you want.

And I done both overhead and underground verison.

Merci.
Marc


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, you should have a 120/240V system run out there. It will give you the ability to use 240V tools (compressor, welder) as well as a 240V heater. Even if you never use 240V, having (2) X 120V circuits in a MWBC setup will give you more power for less installation cost.

The exact amount of power you need is up in the air right now, but I personally wouldn't go smaller than #8 wire for a 40A 120/240V subpanel.

You installed that pipe in the roof for the purpose of running the power out to your garage? Where is the inside of the pipe located?


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## kronic24601 (Aug 11, 2010)

First of all, thanks for everyone advice, this is really helpful. I'll probably want to go with 240 then...

The pipe currently runs down into an empty panel box I installed inside the garage. I was originally not going to install any breakers in the box but perhaps I should?


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