# Filler block and cedar shim for over range microwave?



## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hey guys,

Working on installing a new over range microwave and have to get a filler block in since there's overhang in the front. 

Is a 3"x3" or 4"x4" block enough? I have some short 2x4 pieces I can cut up but I still need to fill 1/4" gap... I found an old cedar moth-repellent hanger where the hanger piece broke off leaving a small 'shim' of cedar - is it OK to use this to shim that space? I know cedar is soft wood and usually not recommended for supporting heavy weight so not sure. 

The other question I have is if I need to secure the filler block to the bottom of the cabinet shelf before drilling the hole for the bolt. Or if the filler blocks can be 'loose' and just have the hole pre-drilled... I'd imagine it might be tough lining all the holes up though when going to secure the microwave?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

are the gaps above, beside or behind it?


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> are the gaps above, beside or behind it?


The gaps are above - there's a cabinet with a front overhang above where the microwave is to go. The gap is right at 2-7/8" - the 2x4 would leave a slight gap in which case the cedar would mostly fill it out.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> The gaps are above - there's a cabinet with a front overhang above where the microwave is to go. The gap is right at 2-7/8" - the 2x4 would leave a slight gap in which case the cedar would mostly fill it out.


 Will you still have the required height above the range. Might be 18"?
The 2x4 blocks screwed from the cupboard beside it would be good.
I would just add a piece of 1/4" plywood below that. 

The screws down from above will not be long enough so you will have to deal with that. 

Connecting the exhaust vent could be trouble some if you are going out the top. 

I did one where the shelf above was a mess as it had previously had an 8" round thru it, so after it was all hooked up I put a piece of white shelving in on top to clean it up.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Will you still have the required height above the range. Might be 18"?
> The 2x4 blocks screwed from the cupboard beside it would be good.
> I would just add a piece of 1/4" plywood below that.
> 
> ...


Thanks. There are two bolts that came with the microwave that I think will be long enough - they're at least 3-4" long.

With old range hood up:



























After removing the range hood



























Installed bracket, removed old shims and drilled holes for the top bolts (hope they match up to the microwave!!!). So the cedar plank I have, if I were to just slide that and sandwich that between the piece of 2x4, would that be OK? I'm thinking of cutting just a small 3" x 3" or 4"x4" square of the 2x4 and cedar (or whatever I can find that's better to shim the 1/4" of space). I may just use a couple wood screws or nails to connect the shim to the 2x4 block and then wood screws to help secure the blocks/shims to the cabinet bottom. I don't think I need a huge piece of wood to fill that gap - it's literally just a small filler block to fill the gap. Although now that I think about it, I suppose it would add support if I were to use a length of 2x4 and 1/4" shim that runs from front to back right? Similar to this one (which was used to support the range hood (unfortunately, I couldn't retrofit it to the microwave as the bolt hole locations on the microwave are literally an inch off from where the old supporting block/shim was:









In terms of the venting - it is going to be a pain - the location of the exhaust vent is off to the side at a 30 degree angle from where the venting would come off of the microwave. I had to buy a boot adapter from the microwave to the 7" diameter venting and picked up a roll of aluminum tape too. That's definitely going to be a puzzle figuring out


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Here are pics of the progress up until now:



















This is the block and shim I'm referring to: 2x4 is on the top and the cedar shim is below it. It's right up against one of the bolts (to secure the top of the microwave) just for reference - if I were to actually use these I would cut them smaller (to 3x3" or 4x4" squares), drill a hole for the bolt to pass through and then secure them together and to the cabinet bottom as I had described earlier: 









Would it be better to use an entire length of 2x4 and same length shim to create a "beam" for more support? Or am I already getting plenty of support from the bracket on the wall combined with the two top bolts? I'm thinking this approach of using a longer length/beam is somewhat overkill. And I'm also thinking that that cedar shim might be just fine - what I may do is sandwich it between the cabinet bottom and 2x4 (so just reverse the way I have them stacked in the picture). I think the "filler block" was solely meant to prevent damage to the microwave top and the bolt 'pulling' the microwave top and potentially warping it - so the filler block would 'pad' that. I suppose it acts as extra support/security too but not sure how much load it's actually bearing.

Thoughts?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Here are pics of the progress up until now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You don't need any blocks the bolts will just pull it up tight under the front of the cupboard. 

I don't like the shelf as it is just nailed up so it could pull down in the back 

you could put a 1x2 under it for extra support and a 1x2 on each side level with the bottom of the front so the MW pulls up tight there too. 



With that round duct, I just got an adapter to 4" so it was easier to deal with.
I think i had the adapter made something like this so it sat flush with the wall with a 4" hole in the middle.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You don't need any blocks the bolts will just pull it up tight under the front of the cupboard.
> 
> I don't like the shelf as it is just nailed up so it could pull down in the back
> 
> ...




Ugh, I measured wrong - the gap is actual 1-7/8" (I said 2-7/8" earlier). So much for measuring correctly lol. So it sounds like what you're saying is to build a pseudo-frame around the remainder of the bottom cabinet (sides and back) to avoid dealing with a couple filler blocks as the bolts will 'pull' the microwave to hopefully sit flush against the cabinet with the additional "supporting frame"

Now that I think about it, I actually shouldn't have removed those existing supports that the range hood was bolted to!!! Dohhhh *facepalm*
Oh well, I guess it's a learning experience right?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Ugh, I measured wrong - the gap is actual 1-7/8" (I said 2-7/8" earlier). So much for measuring correctly lol. So it sounds like what you're saying is to build a pseudo-frame around the remainder of the bottom cabinet (sides and back) to avoid dealing with a couple filler blocks as the bolts will 'pull' the microwave to hopefully sit flush against the cabinet with the additional "supporting frame"
> 
> Now that I think about it, I actually shouldn't have removed those existing supports that the range hood was bolted to!!! Dohhhh *facepalm*
> Oh well, I guess it's a learning experience right?


yes but put the back one up tight to the shelf, it needs help.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> yes but put the back one up tight to the shelf, it needs help.


So without taking trips to the hardware store, unless I can find a long enough length of 2x4 and .25" thick piece of MDF or plywood scrap, I think what I'll do is take a couple small pieces of the 2x4 with a matching sized piece of the cedar plank and screw those to the back of the cabinet as you say. Then at least there will be some support back there. Based on what you're saying, it seems like having *something* in the back will help with the weight distribution versus depending on the front frame and a filler block that's also towards the front of the microwave (where the bolt holes are). BTW: Is it better to secure/screw these blocks from the bottom up or top down?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> So without taking trips to the hardware store, unless I can find a long enough length of 2x4 and .25" thick piece of MDF or plywood scrap, I think what I'll do is take a couple small pieces of the 2x4 with a matching sized piece of the cedar plank and screw those to the back of the cabinet as you say. Then at least there will be some support back there. Based on what you're saying, it seems like having *something* in the back will help with the weight distribution versus depending on the front frame and a filler block that's also towards the front of the microwave (where the bolt holes are). BTW: Is it better to secure/screw these blocks from the bottom up or top down?


No, I was concerned about the back of the shelf falling down. some bracket or something screwed to the wall under the shelf.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Is the bottom of the cabinet at least ply or solid wood, not particleboard or MDF?


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> No, I was concerned about the back of the shelf falling down. some bracket or something screwed to the wall under the shelf.





huesmann said:


> Is the bottom of the cabinet at least ply or solid wood, not particleboard or MDF?



The bottom of the cabinet appears to be particleboard - the shelving in these original cabinets are all particleboard unfortunately. However, the original shims that were in place were holding the vent up on it's own without additional bracket. I guess the microwave is going to weigh significantly more though right? 

So would something like metal L-brackets help at all here? Or would solid would framing that Neal suggested all the way around be the best bet? I would still need to 'anchor' the solid wood 'framing' securely to the existing cabinetry though right?

I guess my other question is how much load the wall-bracket for this microwave actually bears, since that's the first thing the microwave is set on and it requires at least one of the screws holding it in place to be attached to a stud.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

The nuke box is likely to be significantly heavier. What I would do in this situation is get a couple pieces of flat 1" board and stick those in the bottom of the cabinet, below the shelf. Drive a couple nails or screws into the front face of the frame to secure the boards in front (since your cabinets appear to be painted, you could easily hide the nail holes). Use a couple of metal brackets on the back and secure to wall and bottom of board. Brackets will be hidden by the microwave. I would think that would provide the additional support you'll need.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

huesmann said:


> The nuke box is likely to be significantly heavier. What I would do in this situation is get a couple pieces of flat 1" board and stick those in the bottom of the cabinet, below the shelf. Drive a couple nails or screws into the front face of the frame to secure the boards in front (since your cabinets appear to be painted, you could easily hide the nail holes). Use a couple of metal brackets on the back and secure to wall and bottom of board. Brackets will be hidden by the microwave. I would think that would provide the additional support you'll need.


Thanks! I was just thinking about that while making coffee and looking over the situation. I was originally thinking about doing that with a couple lengths of 2x4 but I think that would be too much - there's actually a strip of wood supporting the back of the cabinet that the particleboard shelves are attached to in the back. I might be able to drive a couple screws up into that (trying to do that with a 1x6 versus a 2x4 would probably be easier). 

BTW - if I did want to grab some metal brackets, how big of brackets should I get? My concern with that is that there's only one stud and it's almost in the middle (slightly off center) of this space. So even with brackets, it wouldn't really be secured to anything substantial unless I were to align the bracket with the stud somehow (the stud does not intersect with either of the bottom shelves though).

Here's what I was envisioning (brackets not factored in yet)










If brackets are still advisable, what size/type brackets should I consider?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Actually, I just had a better idea. If you do have a stud somewhere, you could use a piece of steel or aluminum angle to support your 1x6 at the back of the wall. Just like the microwave mounting bracket, you would have at least one screw through a stud that way. It'd basically be a continuous bracket. You might have to notch out the top flange where your vent fan will exit. The metal angle wouldn't need to be that heavy duty; the microwave mount isn't that heavy duty.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

huesmann said:


> Actually, I just had a better idea. If you do have a stud somewhere, you could use a piece of steel or aluminum angle to support your 1x6 at the back of the wall. Just like the microwave mounting bracket, you would have at least one screw through a stud that way. It'd basically be a continuous bracket. You might have to notch out the top flange where your vent fan will exit. The metal angle wouldn't need to be that heavy duty; the microwave mount isn't that heavy duty.



So in my last post I indicated where the stud is in the picture w/ the caption - unfortunately it's almost smack-dab in the middle of the opening so there's no existing shelving there. It's basically behind where the venting needs to exit so I can't put a shelf there. In this case, there's a solid wood support 'beam' running across the back and the particleboard shelves are attached to that at the rear. It would be nice leveraging the stud for this part but I don't see how it's possible to, unless I'm missing something?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Are you venting up or back?


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

huesmann said:


> Are you venting up or back?


The vent is above -it's in a pretty awkward location but yea...










Basically the piece of foil you see in this pic and the last one from the other post are where the vent outlet is - I have to modify the ducting to run up there. The prior range hood was setup for this:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> The bottom of the cabinet appears to be particleboard - the shelving in these original cabinets are all particleboard unfortunately. However, the original shims that were in place were holding the vent up on it's own without additional bracket. I guess the microwave is going to weigh significantly more though right?
> 
> So would something like metal L-brackets help at all here? Or would solid would framing that Neal suggested all the way around be the best bet? I would still need to 'anchor' the solid wood 'framing' securely to the existing cabinetry though right?
> 
> I guess my other question is how much load the wall-bracket for this microwave actually bears, since that's the first thing the microwave is set on and it requires at least one of the screws holding it in place to be attached to a stud.


The particle board is a good catch, you really need a 1x2 or 2x2 under the back screwed to the studs in the wall.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> The particle board is a good catch, you really need a 1x2 or 2x2 under the back screwed to the studs in the wall.


Good idea - I have some long lengths of 1x3 in the garage that I can cut down and I guess could also trim down smaller to match the overhang I'll cut a strip to run under the particle board shelves just like the strip that's above it. But if I were to do that, would I still want or need to install the 1x6 boards running under the particle boards from front to back?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Good idea - I have some long lengths of 1x3 in the garage that I can cut down and I guess could also trim down to 1-7/8" to match the overhang I'll cut a strip to run under the particle board shelves just like the strip that's above it. But if I were to do that, would I still want or need to install the 1x6 boards running under the particle boards from front to back?


Cut enough for the sides to and then we can't see how the shelf attaches to the front. If that is hooky cut enough 1 7/8 to go all the way around


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Cut enough for the sides to and then we can't see how the shelf attaches to the front. If that is hooky cut enough 1 7/8 to go all the way around


Actually, the particle board shelves are installed at a slant - they're not level. I think they're higher in the back and slant down towards the front. In terms of the top of the microwave bracket to the bottom of the particle board shelf, it's like 2"

At the front it's 1-7/8" from the bottom of the particle board to the bottom of the front overhang. 

So for the back I was thinking maybe to cut the 1x3 down so that it's 1.25" wide - this way I can secure the 1x6 from underneath with a couple screws going up into that support strip and then secure it in the front with a couple more screws. I think that might be sufficient enough no? I'll probably just use plastic anchors to secure each side of this support strip outside of the 'center' screw that is attached to the stud.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Actually, the particle board shelves are installed at a slant - they're not level. I think they're higher in the back and slant down towards the front. In terms of the top of the microwave bracket to the bottom of the particle board shelf, it's like 2"
> 
> At the front it's 1-7/8" from the bottom of the particle board to the bottom of the front overhang.
> 
> So for the back I was thinking maybe to cut the 1x3 down so that it's 1.25" wide - this way I can secure the 1x6 from underneath with a couple screws going up into that support strip and then secure it in the front with a couple more screws. I think that might be sufficient enough no? I'll probably just use plastic anchors to secure each side of this support strip outside of the 'center' screw that is attached to the stud.


 I am lost 1x3, 1x6, I don't know 

All I know is, as is the shelf at the back can fall down. 

You need something some where behind the beside the bolts so when you tighten it up the microwaves pulls up level and stays there, 



Use a level and draw a level line on the side walls level with the front 

put a 2x2 under the back self, but 2x2 on the level lines on the sides.
Now you would have a shelf that will not fall in the back and a solid surface on both sides so the microwave can pull up tight to that.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> I am lost 1x3, 1x6, I don't know
> 
> All I know is, as is the shelf at the back can fall down.
> 
> ...


hopefully this makes it a little clearer as to what i was trying to describe lol:









The 1x3 strip will be cut down to size and run along the back wall underneath the existing shelving - this would be secured to the stud along with a couple more screws anchored into the drywall. 
Then the two 1x6 planks, running front to back, will be secured to the 1x3 strip with a couple screw from underneath. 
I will then put a couple screws through the front overhang/frame to secure the 1x6 planks in the front.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> hopefully this makes it a little clearer as to what i was trying to describe lol:
> 
> 
> The 1x3 strip will be cut down to size and run along the back wall underneath the existing shelving - this would be secured to the stud along with a couple more screws anchored into the drywall.
> ...



Put a 2x2 under the shelf and screw it into the studs. tight under the shelf. 

And then.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Put a 2x2 under the shelf and screw it into the studs. tight under the shelf.
> 
> And then.


I don't have any 2x2s laying around - guess I could run to the store but was trying to avoid doing that if I can use what I have at home. I have a length of 2x4 and also those 1x3s I had laying around. 

If I went this route, is that literally all I'd need to do then? Just secure the 2x2 or whatever to the back stud and maybe a couple more into drywall anchors on the sides and that would be enough to support the microwave without needing additional pieces of wood up there?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Put a 2x2 on both sides level with the front and screwed in the cupboards on both sides.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Put a 2x2 on both sides level with the front and screwed in the cupboards on both sides.


Ah ok. Guess I'll look into stopping by Home Depot or Lowes then to get a length of 2x2. Should I shim the back wall between the particle board and 2x2 as there will likely be a small gap?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> I don't have any 2x2s laying around - guess I could run to the store but was trying to avoid doing that if I can use what I have at home. I have a length of 2x4 and also those 1x3s I had laying around.
> 
> If I went this route, is that literally all I'd need to do then? Just secure the 2x2 or whatever to the back stud and maybe a couple more into drywall anchors on the sides and that would be enough to support the microwave without needing additional pieces of wood up there?


 Yes cut them out of what ever you have. Even if you don't get the best cut 

Just use the factory cut where it is important, the top of the back one and the bottom of the side ones.


If you can screw from the other side of the sides then they could be 2x3.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Ah ok. Guess I'll look into stopping by Home Depot or Lowes then to get a length of 2x2. Should I shim the back wall between the particle board and 2x2 as there will likely be a small gap?


 Tight to the shelf the back one is only to keep the shelf up.
The side ones are to keep the MW level with the front.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I would suggest using 2x4's the full width at the front and the back with a couple of screws through the sides of the cabinets on each side into the ends of the each of the 2x4's (so 2 screws at the back and 2 screws at the front at both ends).


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> I would suggest using 2x4's the full width at the front and the back with a couple of screws through the sides of the cabinets on each side into the ends of the each of the 2x4's (so 2 screws at the back and 2 screws at the front at both ends).


Doesn't work for the back. you would ed up with this.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Doesn't work for the back. you would ed up with this.


The back of the microwave is supported by the metal bracket on the wall (notice the hooks along the bottom). I should've looked closer at the pictures - I was thinking that something would be needed at the back to support the shelf, but a few screws up through the particle board into the 1x2 above it will suffice for that. 

The important one is the front, which supports half or more of the weight of the microwave. Having something that allows that weight to be supported by the cabinets on the sides would seem to be the safer route. This can also be accomplished in several ways, but it seems to me that the simplest is to put a 2x4 in that fits* snugly* against the side panels of the cabinets on each side. It's important that the 2x4 is the right length so that that you're not pulling on the side panels when you tighten the screws through the side panels into the ends of the 2x4.


*Installation note: Be sure to get the wall bracket at the correct height based on the bottom of the board at the front, or the microwave will not be level.*


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> The back of the microwave is supported by the metal bracket on the wall (notice the hooks along the bottom). I should've looked closer at the pictures - I was thinking that something would be needed at the back to support the shelf, but a few screws up through the particle board into the 1x2 above it will suffice for that.
> 
> The important one is the front, which supports half or more of the weight of the microwave. Having something that allows that weight to be supported by the cabinets on the sides would seem to be the safer route. This can also be accomplished in several ways, but it seems to me that the simplest is to put a 2x4 in that fits* snugly* against the side panels of the cabinets on each side. It's important that the 2x4 is the right length so that that you're not pulling on the side panels when you tighten the screws through the side panels into the ends of the 2x4.
> 
> ...


Thanks, yes the wall bracket has hooks on it to help support the microwave. But they also say to use bolts. I'm fairly certain I have it at the right level... I hope!!! I think in terms of supporting the particleboard shelf, I'm going to go the route of Neal's suggestion:










I actually found a 2x4 I had laying around and cut it down to size and into "2x2" (roughly) dimensions.

I'm gonna post a length against the back attached to the stud and a couple drywall anchors and directly under the particle board shelves (not sure if I need to drive any screws up to connect this support to the actual particle board). Then I'm going to cut a couple side supports with the same 2x2 material and attach those to the side cabinets (although I'm not sure how much these will offer along the way of actual support for the load as they will be attached to the particle board via wood screw but Neal said these are more to help keep the microwave level?)

As far as the part of your suggestion about the 2x4 going snugly against the side panels of the cabinets on each side, I'm not 100% sure what you'd referring to but is the drawing I just put up (from Neal) what you're referring to in terms of the 2x4 being up against the side panels?

What about something like this? 









Or should I just go all out and build an entire frame? Haha... I'm out of 2x4 pieces but I guess I could cut to length a piece of 1x2 or 1x3 to get in between the two 2x2s to complete the frame if that's something you guys would suggest... something like this:









I guess I wouldn't even need to build the frame. I could just slide the pieces into the gap (where the yellow rectangle boxes are I drew) and secure those to the cabinets on either side. But is it necessary esp if the metal bracket is already up and assuming it's all level (if it's not then I'm going to have bigger problems anyway)?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Thanks, yes the wall bracket has hooks on it to help support the microwave. But they also say to use bolts.



Unless it much different than the few that I've installed, the back is completely supported by the wall bracket, and there's no place to attach any bolts at the back. It hangs on those hooks at the bottom of the bracket and the bolts at the front, and that's it.


> Or should I just go all out and build an entire frame?



Unless the end pieces are attached to the side panel of the cabinet *and* the front and back pieces, they serve no purpose in supporting anything.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> Unless it much different than the few that I've installed, the back is completely supported by the wall bracket, and there's no place to attach any bolts at the back. It hangs on those hooks at the bottom of the bracket and the bolts at the front, and that's it.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless the end pieces are attached to the side panel of the cabinet *and* the front and back pieces, they serve no purpose in supporting anything.



Thanks. So when you say "end pieces" you are referring to the yellow outlines in the picture? And in that case, I would go ahead and build-out the frame so all pieces are attached and then secure the frame to every side (front overhang, back wall including stud, and 2-3 screws into the sides of the neighboring cabinets). I think I mentioned this but the neighboring cabinet sides are particle board as well - not sure if that would make a difference as far as the overall load-bearing of the frame as a whole - it seems like the back support and front supports would matter more.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Thanks. So when you say "end pieces" you are referring to the yellow outlines in the picture? And in that case, I would go ahead and build-out the frame so all pieces are attached and then secure the frame to every side (front overhang, back wall including stud, and 2-3 screws into the sides of the neighboring cabinets). I think I mentioned this but the neighboring cabinet sides are particle board as well - not sure if that would make a difference as far as the overall load-bearing of the frame as a whole - it seems like the back support and front supports would matter more.


 Better if you screw thru particle board into the 2x 

The front is only nailed into the same particle board


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Better if you screw thru particle board into the 2x
> 
> The front is only nailed into the same particle board


Good point regarding the front being secured to the particle board. I found a short length of 2x4 that I can use to do the full frame so I'll just plan on doing that then. I will probably should pre-drill and countersink some of the connection points. I'll probably need to do it for the stud too since I don't think I have any screws that are long-enough. I hope I'm measuring everything out correctly - it's going to be a terrible feeling to hoist this thing up to find out that I had something off 

Speaking of which, can I do a 'dry-run' fitting with the existing setup to make sure the microwave is at least centered and level? Then take it down, install the supporting frame, and then put the microwave back up?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Good point regarding the front being secured to the particle board. I found a short length of 2x4 that I can use to do the full frame so I'll just plan on doing that then. I will probably should pre-drill and countersink some of the connection points. I'll probably need to do it for the stud too since I don't think I have any screws that are long-enough. I hope I'm measuring everything out correctly - it's going to be a terrible feeling to hoist this thing up to find out that I had something off
> 
> Speaking of which, can I do a 'dry-run' fitting with the existing setup to make sure the microwave is at least centered and level? Then take it down, install the supporting frame, and then put the microwave back up?


A test fit is a good idea. :wink2:


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> A test fit is a good idea. :wink2:


Yea, so the holes didn't line up... except I realized I drilled the original holes *just* big enough to where when the bolt is screwed it it threads the holes. I'm thinking that's probably not the best idea right? I can just drill the holes slightly bigger so the bolt passes through cleanly and has wiggle room, then I might be able to angle/force it into the microwave bolt holes without having to drill completely new holes - it's off by maybe 1/8"-1/4" just barely missing the hole.

What's frustrating is that I've checked the measurements against the template and it's like right on esp on the left side...yet for whatever reason the bolts didn't line up - the right side was slight off so I may have to re-drill that hole. Unless it's possible we didn't fully push the microwave to the back - but we had it on the hooks so it should have been OK. I guess we'll have to do one more dry-run just to make sure and then I'll drill the holes as needed.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Thanks. So when you say "end pieces" you are referring to the yellow outlines in the picture?



Yes.




> I can just drill the holes slightly bigger so the bolt passes through cleanly and has wiggle room...



Just put a washer under the bolt head, so that the head of the bolt doesn't pull through the hole.


You can also do what I call 'wallering out the hole', by drilling up from the bottom and moving the drill around so that the hole is kind of cone shaped where it's bigger at the bottom than the top.


If you're doing this by yourself, it probably would be worthwhile find a box, bucket, lumber scraps, etc. to prop the front up in place while you line up the bolts and get them installed.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

nevermind....


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

OK, so I went ahead and built a full frame using 2x2s only to realize that the back 2x2 strip (secured to the wall and stud) is going to block the vent duct  I suppose I could use a 1x2 or 1x3 strip instead of the 2x2 in the back part of that frame so the ducting can pass. 



















If I just put a 1x3 or 1x2 strip up against the back wall and beneath the shelves as a 'cleat', and without attaching it to the frame, would that be sufficient enough? I was originally contemplating pulling the back 2x2 piece off the frame and replacing it with a 1x2 strip.

In fact, do I even need to bother putting the frame together and securing it then dealing with jamming it up in that space? Or can I just screw the individual pieces in separately? I would think pre-building the frame would offer additional support but not sure if it's really necessary or worth the trouble (it was difficult getting the pre-built frame up into the space with the bracket in the way - I nearly lost the toggle on the toggle bolt while trying to remove it!!)


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

1x2 will work , a 1x3 would be in the way for the back of the MW .
I would put the 1x2 in separately . I wouldn't worry about the sides being short now they will still work.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> 1x2 will work , a 1x3 would be in the way for the back of the MW .
> I would put the 1x2 in separately . I wouldn't worry about the sides being short now they will still work.


So basically just add a 1x2 strip in as a cleat for the back and under the particle board shelves. And then remove the back 2x2 of the frame and just use it as-is?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> So basically just add a 1x2 strip in as a cleat for the back and under the particle board shelves. And then remove the back 2x2 of the frame and just use it as-is?


Yes......:wink2:


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes......:wink2:


Very good - I'll have to scrounge up a piece of 1x2. I have a long piece of 1x3 but the trouble is trying to cut that narrow of a piece of wood lengthwise with just a circular saw hahaha

EDIT: I actually have a long enough 1x6 board that I'd be able to make a rip-cut on. I just clamped it down to my B&D Workmate 525 and the portable circular saw (it's actually a DW935 Trim Saw - there's no edge guide unfortunately, which would have helped with a lot of these cuts I've been making). I have will just clear it for the cut I think - I'll have to check again but I think I may have it. Hopefully I won't be making to many more cuts haha


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Very good - I'll have to scrounge up a piece of 1x2. I have a long piece of 1x3 but the trouble is trying to cut that narrow of a piece of wood lengthwise with just a circular saw hahaha
> 
> EDIT: I actually have a long enough 1x6 board that I'd be able to make a rip-cut on. I just clamped it down to my B&D Workmate 525 and the portable circular saw I have will just clear it for the cut I think - I'll have to check again but I think I may have it. Hopefully I won't be making to many more cuts haha


 You only need one good side and as long as it isn't wider than 1 7/8? you are good. Didn't your saw come with T shaped thing that slides into the table on the saw. that thing is a fence for straight cutting.
Or clamp a board under the saw that will guide you straight. :vs_cool:


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You only need one good side and as long as it isn't wider than 1 7/8? you are good. Didn't your saw come with T shaped thing that slides into the table on the saw. that thing is a fence for straight cutting.
> Or clamp a board under the saw that will guide you straight. :vs_cool:


Unfortunately the trim/circular saw I have is an older model that doesn't have a fence guide (it only has an angle adjuster). 

How would you clamp a board under the saw to act as a guide? Do you have any pics of this? I've seen the jigs people build to act as a guide:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Unfortunately the trim/circular saw I have is an older model that doesn't have a fence guide (it only has an angle adjuster).
> 
> How would you clamp a board under the saw to act as a guide? Do you have any pics of this? I've seen the jigs people build to act as a guide:


Looking at the bottom fo the saw you clamp a board 1 1/2" from the blade and make sure you have the same measurements on both ends.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I don't see that you need anything more on the back than the 1x that's already there (assuming it's not in the way of the vent). All you need is to drive a few screws up through the shelves into that 1x and put attach the other 3 sides of the frame to the side cabinets. All you're supporting at the back is the weight of whatever you're going to put on the shelves.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> I don't see that you need anything more on the back than the 1x that's already there (assuming it's not in the way of the vent). All you need is to drive a few screws up through the shelves into that 1x and put attach the other 3 sides of the frame to the side cabinets. All you're supporting at the back is the weight of whatever you're going to put on the shelves.


 The shelf is not one continuous piece as built. It is particle board nailed up.
And the shelf holds the weight of the micro wave. Are you sure you want to say It.s good no problem.
As long as you and he understand that I would not want the micro wave to slip down even 1/8" for the cost of a 1x2 to hold it up.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> And the shelf holds the weight of the micro wave. Are you sure you want to say It.s good no problem.



I don't believe the shelf supports the microwave, or is capable of doing so. That is why the 2x frame is needed - to support the front of the microwave. Again, the back of the microwave is supported by the metal bracket on the wall. Notice the picture at step 7 of this installation guide.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> I don't believe the shelf supports the microwave, or is capable of doing so. That is why the 2x frame is needed - to support the front of the microwave. Again, the back of the microwave is supported by the metal bracket on the wall. Notice the picture at step 7 of this installation guide.



You have never installed one have you?


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> You have never installed one have you?



Several actually. They all had a bolt at each front corner and a metal bracket just like the one the OP has on the wall, and nothing more for support. I guess it's possible the one the OP is trying to install is different, but what would be the point of the wall bracket with the hooks at the bottom, if that was the case?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> Several actually. They all had a bolt at each front corner and a metal bracket just like the one the OP has on the wall, and nothing more for support. I guess it's possible the one the OP is trying to install is different, but what would be the point of the wall bracket with the hooks at the bottom, if that was the case?


 The point of the bracket at the back is to hang the micro wave while you install it, on some modals when you tighten the bolts it actually lifts out of the back bracket. 

Normally you have a shelf that is plywood and is fit into a dado on the sides and front and sometimes on the back. 

Particle board normally could be trusted to take that weight, But this shelf is not normal it is two pieces so when tightening the bolts, it would not take much to pull the shelf out of the side dado on or both. The back is held up with finish nails up into a 1x2, not much holding that. 

Normally when you are tightening the bolts the MW pulls up tight to the shelf above, thee problem here is the shelf is near 2" away and that is why i asked for the 2x2 on each side. So the Micro wave will stop and be tight in place, not just hanging from the bolts.


Doing things in perfect conditions is not experience. Experience tells you to look at what you are dealing with and give it all the help you can.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If the 2x2 at the front is farther forward than the where the mounting bolts are, and the bolts go through the shelf and not the 2x2, then the shelf would be supporting the microwave. In that case, he would be relying on the connection at the back of the shelf to carry a small portion of the load applied to the bolts. However, I had understood that the 2x2 frame was to be positioned such that the bolts went through the 2x2, and if that is the case, the back of the shelf doesn't carry any of the weight of the microwave.


In either case, a few screws through the particle board into the 1x2 or 1x3 above it (if done carefully so as not to break the particle board around the screws) will provide more than adequate support for the small portion of the weight of the microwave and a few pounds on the shelves. 



If there is concern about it, attaching short pieces of 1x2 under the shelves themselves that don't extend across the middle could be added. As long as the 1x2 pieces each can be screwed into a stud, or secured with a couple of hollow wall anchors or toggle bolts, they will support the shelf pieces, and the 1x2 or 1x3 above could be removed if it's in the way of the vent. Sometimes the vents come out very close to the wall, where even a 1x is too thick.


Another option I just thought of, would be to move the 2x2 at the back to a position in front of the vent, and attach it to the end pieces (screw through the end pieces into the ends of the 2x2), which would in turn be attached to the side panels of the adjacent cabinets. Now that it has occurred to me, this would be what I would do in this situation, because then I could remove the 1x on the wall and not have to worry about it interfering with the vent.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> ...some modals when you tighten the bolts it actually lifts out of the back bracket.


 It's not supposed to. If it does, you've tightened the bolts too much.




> Doing things in perfect conditions is not experience. Experience tells you to look at what you are dealing with and give it all the help you can.



That's what I'm trying to do. I know you are too, so let's see if we can work together to come up with the best solution for the OP.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> It's not supposed to. If it does, you've tightened the bolts too much.


Not if there is something to stop it from going to high. 





HotRodx10 said:


> That's what I'm trying to do. I know you are too, so let's see if we can work together to come up with the best solution for the OP.



Maybe next time you will question what someone suggests before you tell an OP that it is not needed. 

I am always ready to work together, that is why I spoke to you instead of telling the op to ignore you.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Maybe next time you will question what someone suggests before you tell an OP that it is not needed.



I'm sorry if I offended you, but my experience with half a dozen installations just like this, and every installation guide and video I've seen, says that the wall bracket supports the back, and the bolts support the front. If the installer stops tightening the bolts when the top of the microwave comes up against the front rail of the cabinet (which they should) the back will stay on the bracket where it belongs. If you're lifting the back of the microwave off of the bracket, you're overtightening the bolts and putting far more stress on the shelf than you should be.




> I am always ready to work together, that is why I spoke to you instead of telling the op to ignore you.



I'm not quite sure what to say to that, other than I hope you didn't mean it like it sounds, because it comes off as a bit condescending. You don't know me, or what my experience is, so assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about may not be the best approach, for anyone.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you, but my experience with half a dozen installations just like this, and every installation guide and video I've seen, says that the wall bracket supports the back, and the bolts support the front. If the installer stops tightening the bolts when the top of the microwave comes up against the front rail of the cabinet (which they should) the back will stay on the bracket where it belongs. If you're lifting the back of the microwave off of the bracket, you're overtightening the bolts and putting far more stress on the shelf than you should be.


 So you would stop tightening before it got any kind of torque on the bolt. 

I would think with normal use of the door that might wiggle the bolt? 

That would require a lock nut but there is no access to tighten one. 




HotRodx10 said:


> I'm not quite sure what to say to that, other than I hope you didn't mean it like it sounds, because it comes off as a bit condescending. You don't know me, or what my experience is, so assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about may not be the best approach, for anyone.


Well it was you that didn't agree or understand what i was after and just assumed I was worried about sillyness. You want respect, how about showing some.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> So you would stop tightening before it got any kind of torque on the bolt.



Yes. When the top of the microwave is touching the bottom of the cabinet, that's as far as it needs to go.




> I would think with normal use of the door that might wiggle the bolt?
> 
> That would require a lock nut but there is no access to tighten one.



If it starts to loosen and a gap develops, retighten the bolt until there's not a gap. If it continues to happen, take the bolts out one at a time, put a couple of drops of threadlocker on the end and reinstall. I've never had that issue with mine though.




> Well it was you that didn't agree or understand what i was after and just assumed I was worried about sillyness.



I understood what you were trying to convey, and I tried, as politely as I could, to explain that what you were suggesting was unnecessary. Further, your suggestion that tightening the bolts may lift the microwave off of the bracket, implies that doing so is ok. I'm sorry, but it is not. The stress that would put on the shelf could cause it to fail. He'd be prying the weight of the microwave over the bolts and the front rail of the cabinet.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> You want respect, how about showing some.



I do respect you. I've read the advice and guidance you've provided to many posters, and found it thoughtful, insightful, and wise across many different subjects. I did not intend to disrespect you, or your experience and understanding. Again, I'm sorry if you took it as such.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

HotRodx10 said:


> I do respect you. I've read the advice and guidance you've provided to many posters, and found it thoughtful, insightful, and wise across many different subjects. I did not intend to disrespect you, or your experience and understanding. Again, I'm sorry if you took it as such.


Thank you, let's team up in the future. :wink2:


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm sorry guys - didn't mean for this thread to cause an argument!

So bottom line... is it OK to go ahead and proceed with this then?










I would position this so the front 2x2 beam is right up against the inside front overhang and secure it with 3-4 screws. I would then secure the sides (from inside the neighboring shelves) with 2 screws into each of those 2x2s. So a "U-Shaped" frame.

And I think I'll still cut a length of 1x2 to act as a cleat for the particle board shelves in the back (secured to the stud and a couple plastic anchors) for good measure. I think that even with the cleat and strip of wood that's back there, it will still allow the vent to pass - I am a bit concerned about that so it would be good to do another dry-run fit beforehand.

There will be a slight gap between the end of the side 2x2s and the cleat against the back wall but it sounds like that's not that big a concern.

As far as the bolts securing the microwave, there will still be a gap and no filler block but my understanding is all the extra support we're adding with the U-frame and back cleat will be more than enough. And the other factor is of course not to over-tighten the bolt so as to damage the microwave and or rip through the particleboard.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> I'm sorry guys - didn't mean for this thread to cause an argument!
> 
> So bottom line... is it OK to go ahead and proceed with this then?
> 
> ...


 Yes that is fine like that. level with the front of the face frame. 

The sides of the MW will pull up tight to the 2x2 and allow you to give the bolts a good snug. 

Now that you have the cleat on the back wall I feel a lot better about the shelf staying in place and doing its job.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes that is fine like that. level with the front of the face frame.
> 
> The sides of the MW will pull up tight to the 2x2 and allow you to give the bolts a good snug.
> 
> Now that you have the cleat on the back wall I feel a lot better about the shelf staying in place and doing its job.


Thanks. The frame I built isn't perfectly flat since I didn't make the most straight/flush cuts, so I'm not sure it'll be 'touching' the microwave as the bolts pull up. Will that be OK?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Thanks. The frame I built isn't perfectly flat since I didn't make the most straight/flush cuts, so I'm not sure it'll be 'touching' the microwave as the bolts pull up. Will that be OK?


As long as some of it is on the level line and the rest is above the line it should be fine.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

My personal understanding is that the wall bracket holds up the back of the microwave, while the front of it is supported by the bolts through the cabinet bottom shelf. If your shelf is insecure, via way of being particleboard, that is the first point of failure. As long as the bottom shelf is secure, it will be fine. The OP is way into it at this point.

The bottom of the shelf could have been reinforced with some 1x plank (or 2x it looks like there's plenty of headroom under the shelf), spanning the bottom of the shelf and secured to the adjacent cabinets with nails or screws through the side walls of those cabinets. The plank only needs to go across where the bolt holes are, and would easily clear the vent at the top rear of the microwave case.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> My personal understanding is that the wall bracket holds up the back of the microwave, while the front of it is supported by the bolts through the cabinet bottom shelf.



That has been my experience and my understanding of how it is supposed to work.




> As far as the bolts securing the microwave, there will still be a gap and no filler block but my understanding is all the extra support we're adding with the U-frame and back cleat will be more than enough. And the other factor is of course not to over-tighten the bolt so as to damage the microwave and or rip through the particleboard.



Yep. I think you've got it.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> As long as some of it is on the level line and the rest is above the line it should be fine.




Is it that important that the bottom of the cleat in the back *touches* the top of the microwave? I'm assuming the cleat should butt-up against the bottom of the particle board shelving. If I do that it leaves a slight gap between the bracket/microwave and bottom of the cleat though.

The remainder of the frame I think some part should touch the microwave though or perhaps come very close to it.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Is it that important that the bottom of the cleat in the back *touches* the top of the microwave? I'm assuming the cleat should butt-up against the bottom of the particle board shelving. If I do that it leaves a slight gap between the bracket/microwave and bottom of the cleat though.
> 
> The remainder of the frame I think some part should touch the microwave though or perhaps come very close to it.


 You want to pull it up tight with the bolts. you want the sides of the micro wave to run into the side 2x2 and stop it when the MW is ,level. 

Ignore the back cleat it is finished and doesn't matter for this. 



Put a level under the cleat on the side. 

1. Does it touch the front frame and part of the side 2x2, It should. 

2 is it reading level when you do that. It should.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

huesmann said:


> The OP is way into it at this point.


Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing lol. Given the current 'plan' I have with the cleat in the back (not touching/contacting the microwave and only supporting the particle board shelving) and the front/side "U" frame, is this going to be sufficient? It crossed my mind to add supporting beams across where the bolt holes are but took a different direction earlier on in the thread. Also, I apparently drilled the holes incorrectly so there's also that to deal with


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You want to pull it up tight with the bolts. you want the sides of the micro wave to run into the side 2x2 and stop it when the MW is ,level.
> 
> Ignore the back cleat it is finished and doesn't matter for this.
> 
> ...



So because the cleat was reduced to a 1x2" strip, there's a gap between the ends of the U-frame I built. Otherwise the cleat is pretty level from what I can tell:


















Do I need to cut a couple new lengths of 2x2 for the sides so that I can attach the cleat or so that they touch the cleat when the frame is in place?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing lol. Given the current 'plan' I have with the cleat in the back (not touching/contacting the microwave and only supporting the particle board shelving) and the front/side "U" frame, is this going to be sufficient? It crossed my mind to add supporting beams across where the bolt holes are but took a different direction earlier on in the thread. Also, I apparently drilled the holes incorrectly so there's also that to deal with


 The micro wave is flat on top, it won't bend up in the back that sides give it something to pull up tight to. 

If you don't trust the bolt holes use a big washer or drill a chunk of 1/4" plywood to use for a washer.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Does the back 1x2 hold up the shelf. Take a pencil and write on This is only for the shelf, it is finished and fine as is.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Does the back 1x2 hold up the shelf. Take a pencil and write on This is only for the shelf, it is finished and fine as is.


Haha alright - I haven't attached it yet so that's the next thing I'll do. I currently have the U-frame held up in position with a clamp.


For the cleat I'm putting one longer screw in somewhere near the middle for the stud. I was planning to put in a couple more screws and using plastic drywall anchors for those - should I even bother with the anchors? Or should I just grab some drywall or wood screws and go straight into the drywall?


BTW: Thanks for the continued advice despite the endless stream of questions lol - this is a 'daunting' task having never done it and dealing with antiquated cabinetry.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Haha alright - I haven't attached it yet so that's the next thing I'll do. I currently have the U-frame held up in position with a clamp.


Have got something straight like a 12" ruler, put that between the level and what you want to check and you have made the level longer. That is really tiny.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Have got something straight like a 12" ruler, put that between the level and what you want to check and you have made the level longer. That is really tiny.






















I'm dumb... I just realized I have a couple other longer levels I can check with... I'll double check with those too. 
EDIT: I checked with a longer level/built-in to ruler and it looks consistently level with the small one pictured above.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> I'm dumb... I just realized I have a couple other longer levels I can check with... I'll double check with those too.
> EDIT: I checked with a longer level/built-in to ruler and it looks consistently level with the small one pictured above.



Use that level and check the sides when you are attaching then.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


>


Plastic drywall anchors necessary for the two other non-stud screws? Or should I just screw some drywall or wood screws straight through the cleat and into the drywall?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@*jplee3*
What does this line represent, should that be level with the front?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Plastic drywall anchors necessary for the two other non-stud screws? Or should I just screw some drywall or wood screws straight through the cleat and into the drywall?


If you have 2 studs that would do it but if not a couple anchors would be needed.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> @*jplee3*
> What does this line represent, should that be level with the front?


That was the line I drew to line the bracket up as best I could - I had to draw it a few times as you can see but the top-most line is the one I'm basing the bracket positioning off of.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> That was the line I drew to line the bracket up as best I could - I had to draw it a few times as you can see but the top-most line is the one I'm basing the bracket positioning off of.


So that line is level with the front frame just like it would be if you had a shelf right there? It looks low? :surprise:


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So that line is level with the front frame just like it would be if you had a shelf right there? It looks low? :surprise:


Yeah, if I run the level perpendicular from the front overhang to the back wall, it levels with that line/top of the bracket.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Yeah, if I run the level perpendicular from the front overhang to the back wall, it levels with that line/top of the bracket.


 So the side 2x2 just line up at the front and that line at the back.
You said the cuts on the 2x2s weren't the best, just turn it over so you have factory cuts down. 

Clamp it flush with the front, check the side for level and screw it there.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> So the side 2x2 just line up at the front and that line at the back.
> You said the cuts on the 2x2s weren't the best, just turn it over so you have factory cuts down.
> 
> Clamp it flush with the front, check the side for level and screw it there.


I flipped it over and I think I can get it pretty level - The left side of the frame wants to lean up though. The frame is not level when set on the ground or a flat surface on it's own. I could try pulling that part of the frame down and screwing in while holding it in place after securing down a few other points. I'm guessing it's not 100% level because I didn't get a perfectly flush rip cut on one or more of these lengths. I suppose I could also try to shim that side with popsicle sticks and plywood too.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> I flipped it over and I think I can get it pretty level - The left side of the frame wants to lean up though. The frame is not level when set on the ground or a flat surface on it's own. I could try pulling that part of the frame down and screwing in while holding it in place after securing down a few other points. I'm guessing it's not 100% level because I didn't get a perfectly flush rip cut on one or more of these lengths. I suppose I could also try to shim that side with popsicle sticks and plywood too.


If you screw in what i level, you should be able to push or pull the last corner into place.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> If you screw in what i level, you should be able to push or pull the last corner into place.


Yep, I may just secure the rest and see if I can force it level one screw at a time. 

I just put the cleat up but am now wondering if there will be room for the vent hood damper (and boot) to clear it - the clear is 3/4" thick and I think the back of the microwave to where the damper frame sits in addition to the boot may require 1/2" or less to clear. Not sure what I'm going to do if the cleat ends up blocking... I'm going to try another dry-fit soon and will update back.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Yep, I may just secure the rest and see if I can force it level one screw at a time.
> 
> I just put the cleat up but am now wondering if there will be room for the vent hood damper (and boot) to clear it - the clear is 3/4" thick and I think the back of the microwave to where the damper frame sits in addition to the boot may require 1/2" or less to clear. Not sure what I'm going to do if the cleat ends up blocking... I'm going to try another dry-fit soon and will update back.


Then you remove the center section of that back cleat. Just leave the cleats under the shelf pars that are there.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Then you remove the center section of that back cleat. Just leave the cleats under the shelf pars that are there.


The problem is the screw that's secured to the stud overlaps into where the damper/boot sit.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> The problem is the screw that's secured to the stud overlaps into where the damper/boot sit.


Check your paper pattern that came with it, measure from the fold line to where you cut the whole for duct.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Check your paper pattern that came with it, measure from the fold line to where you cut the whole for duct.


I think I might be in trouble here...










The grey area is the roof-venting cut-out - placed up against the cleat the screw with the stud is almost right in the middle of it. 
You can see the distance measurements on the bottom-left - the 3/4" and even 1/2" markings eat into the gray area. Looks like we need 3/8" clearance to be safe. The cleat sticks out about 3/4"  So I don't know how I can make this cleat work if the idea is to leverage using the stud to support both shelves.

Then again, unless I'm missing something, matching up the screw holes on the microwave to the template drill holes doesn't seem right either when I lay the template across where one screw hole is in relationship to the edge of the microwave.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> I think I might be in trouble here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the MW itself check the distance from the center of the bolt hole to the back of the vent and subtract that from 9 3/8"


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> On the MW itself check the distance from the center of the bolt hole to the back of the vent and subtract that from 9 3/8"


Very roughly, it looks like from the center of the bolt to the damper w/ duct boot on will either be around 8-3/4" to 8-13/16"

9.375-8.75 = .625 or 5/8"


If I take the boot off the center bolt to damper is 8.5625" which leaves .8125" of available space. 

It sounds like without the duct boot it will barely just fit. But if I try to add the duct boot there may be some issues. 
*Maybe* I'll be able to really jam the duct boot into the crack? I also don't want to cause further damage either though.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Very roughly, it looks like from the center of the bolt to the damper w/ duct boot on will either be around 8-3/4" to 8-13/16"
> 
> 9.375-8.75 = .625 or 5/8"
> 
> ...


You don't have any 1/2" plywood do you? 1/2" anything. Cut side off a 2x6 to 1/2"


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> You don't have any 1/2" plywood do you? 1/2" anything. Cut side off a 2x6 to 1/2"


Great news - I decided just to go ahead and do a dry-fit again and it took some jostling but i was able to get the bolts in. I think what was blocking it last time was likely the power cord haha. 

Also I thought I was gonna have issues seating the duct but it slipped right over the damper. I'm hoping I won't need to deal with taping the duct boot to the damper - is it necessary to tape all around where the damper/vent and duct meet? If so then I guess I should do that *before* putting it in (it's just one more bulk thing to deal with though if we have to). 

Took the microwave back down and am going to move forward with putting the U-frame up at this point. I have to admit I was quite tempted just to tighten the bolts after getting it in as-is though lol.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Is there any particular spacing I should adhere to with the screws using to fasten the frame to the cabinets?

12" spacing on the front part of the frame (going to do 3 screws there) and maybe like 4" or 5" on the sides (2 screws on each side)?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jplee3 said:


> Is there any particular spacing I should adhere to with the screws using to fasten the frame to the cabinets?
> 
> 12" spacing on the front part of the frame (going to do 3 screws there) and maybe like 4" or 5" on the sides (2 screws on each side)?


 2 screws pm each side is fine, better if you can screw them from the next cupboard into the 2x2.


when you put it in maybe when you get the bolts in just far enough to hold the weight maybe you could put the boot in and tape it before you pull it right up tight.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

OK... so after several runs, finally got it up in place. I owe my wife a major neck massage later lol. 




















First time we tried putting it up with the stupid duct boot in place but was having trouble getting it into position with the duct boot awkwardly in the way. So had to take it back down and remove the boot and tape 
After we got the thing in place, I force-fit the boot in and ended up busting off a back tab thing which I think should be OK - I won't be able to tape the back part of the duct boot to the vent damper unless I want to hassle with unbolting it (something I'd rather not do at this point) but am wondering if it's really that necessary considering how much it's 'compressed' back there as is. I can just tape the sides and front of the damper and I wonder if I could just put a layer of the tape (its aluminum tape btw) across the outside of the boot where it meets the wood that's compressing it. 
Otherwise, the next big challenge is going to be getting the ducting right. It's a really tight squeeze in there currently:




























I removed the prior ducting from the vent to possibly salvage - it's one of those straight-90 degree adjustable vents. It's really old though so difficult to turn. I'm not sure if it's the right thing either or if I still need an extension of sorts to get to the duct boot off the microwave. The prior range hood had an additional length of ducting so I may just need to cut that shorter and slide it in to retrofit. Both ducts are kind of gross with the grease and old tape residue (I cleaned out most of it but it's still meh...) so wondering if I should just go buy something at Lowes or Home Depot.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

You definitely want to tape around the duct everywhere, otherwise greasy air will just leak through any gaps.


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## jplee3 (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks all for the help! I got the duct in place and taped (FINALLY) and everything *appears* to be functional hahaha:




















Thanks everyone here for all the support and help! Definitely couldn't have done it without you guys


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