# Basement cinder block & insulation



## sherlockfan (Nov 4, 2013)

I am new and have run into a situation that confuses me. My walk out basement is very cold, so I pulled two pieces of paneling off the wall thinking I would put insulation behind it and have found there is no space to do so. I have attached photos to this message as I thought that might be more helpful. 

The cinder blocks have actually been dug out to put in the electrical boxes, and there is a huge gap under the window with no cinder blocks, just the outside bricks  And I don't know what the black paper is, it's sort of like roofing tar paper. Should I put insulation in that big cavity under the window and just use spray foam to fill in around the open wires and electrical boxes and put the paneling back? I don't want to lose a lot of space in the rec room bring the walls out.
I am a single woman who is very capable of doing things with the right instruction, but I find myself stymied by this. Any education as to what I am looking at in the photos would be great. Suggestions of what to do to make the room warmer would be even more appreciated. Thanks!


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You definitely win the award, for worse hack job ever. You not only now have to fix all blocks that they busted holes into, but also have to remove all of that junk timber, and the electrical wiring, before framing a proper 2x4 wall.

What is with that wire at the top picture, entering the block wall?


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## sherlockfan (Nov 4, 2013)

Oh yeah, that wire runs the outside patio light :-(


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forums! 

The wall framing lumber used was very lightweight, in fact it had to be shimmed against the blocks (CMU) to stand upright with help. It also doesn't have enough depth to install standard electrical boxes- hence breaking out sections of the CMU- concrete masonry units. Insulation for your area is minimum; R-10 (continuous rigid foam board) or cavity (between the studs- 3-1/2" deep) R-13; http://energycode.pnl.gov/EnergyCodeReqs/index.jsp?state=Maryland

Pretty much stuck with foamboard (2" thick XPS= R-10) and strapping (1x3---- 3/4" thick), then drywall--- electrical outlets may be tricky... for wall depth of 3-1/4" from block.

Gary


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## sherlockfan (Nov 4, 2013)

*Thanks!*

That was very specific, thanks Gary! :yes:


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You're welcome. Page 28; XPS with dadoes for a 1x3; http://www.dow.com/webapps/lit/litorder.asp?filepath=styrofoam/pdfs/noreg/179-07380.pdf&pdf=true

Savings; http://www.quadlock.com/technical_library/bulletins/R-ETRO_Value_of_Basement_Insulation.pdf Also in first link. 

ADA the drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach/

Seal the rim joist first- foam board/canned foam cut 1/2" smaller- air seal with canned foam; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...joist/files/bscinfo_408_critical_seal_rev.pdf

Install XPS on CMUs (after patching holes) with 1' square grid glue pattern to limit air leaks to blocks against condensation;http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-103-understanding-basements?full_view=1

Check local AHJ for fire-stopping requirements.

Gary


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## jburchill (Oct 3, 2010)

What year was your house made? 
My house was built in the 60s and my basement had 2x2 furrings then stuffed with insulation, then paneling. They could of remodeled the basement before I got it.

After a flood, I took out the paneling and wet insulation. I couldn't find or figure out how they got the insulation in with the 2x2 furrings. I went the route with foam sheets of insulation, and the wiring had to use the small boxes and does get tricky.
Spray foam could be a choice to use, but I think that gets spendy.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> You definitely win the award, for worse hack job ever. You not only now have to fix all blocks that they busted holes into, but also have to remove all of that junk timber, and the electrical wiring, before framing a proper 2x4 wall.
> 
> What is with that wire at the top picture, entering the block wall?


Well you have told her what this looks like to you, she is asking how to fix it in detail. We would like to see your answer.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

BigJim said:


> Well you have told her what this looks like to you, she is asking how to fix it in detail. We would like to see your answer.


My answer is to remove all wood framing, all of that felt, pull the wires going through the Cinder blocks. Then go through and have a mason come in and fix any blocks that have been broken into, to place the boxes in those voids, also fix any issues around windows, or even cut the holes larger for newer windows, if the originals that are there, were not done correct.

Then come along and follow the info that Gary has posted, in making it a habitable or even warm space.

It just threw up red flags to me Jim, when I saw the broken foundation blocks, which can cause problems with the structure above, and the old Cloth Romex just poked through the foundation wall, vs using Conduit and going higher up through the Rim Plate above.


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