# Did I drill too deep?



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Who knows how thick that slab is or how it was pored.
Ever had water coming in that basement around the bottom of the walls before?


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## harvest (Oct 1, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Who knows how thick that slab is or how it was pored.
> Ever had water coming in that basement around the bottom of the walls before?


No! The walls look fine, no water coming in, no cracks or anything. Floor as well used to look good. What worries me is those holes with emptiness...The drill was going down so easy, not drilling anything, just falling down...
Thanks joe for your quick reply!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Not going to be a big deal. The 2 X's spead out the load.


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

Ramset, baby. 

I spent too long drilling and using Tapcons. $30 got me the base Ramset and a box of nails and screws. Works like a charm. Not that that does the OP any good, just a product advertisement.

B


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

I am a bit confused. You said you started out using Tapcons, but they did not work, so you switched to concrete nails. Why were you drilling holes for concrete nails?


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## harvest (Oct 1, 2011)

Well, how could I insert a nail into concrete without drilling a hole first? I tried ramset as well, but since the concrete was too hard, ramset nails could penetrate very little the concrete. Tapcons were ok, but some of them won't get totally in to concrete (dust or shorter holes probably), so I ended up with concrete nails. It took me like 2 full days to drill holes in 425sq feet basement, but at least, I have stable 2x4s on concrete...I hope I haven't messed anything with so many holes and most of them a little deeper than they were supposed to be.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

OK, concrete nails by definition are supposed to be driven into concrete using a hammer. If the concrete is too hard to drive the concrete nail, then they should not be used. If your Ramset was not working, you might have had too low a charge. As I recall from my days using a Ramset, there was a .22 Ramset, not real good for hard concrete, and a .38 Ramset. As I recall, there were various loads for the .38, I believe the purple was a large charge, and when we used the .38 with the heavy charge and an appropriate nail, you could drive it into the hardest concrete on earth. I can't quite understand how the nails hold if you drilled a hole, I guess it is like predrilling for a wood screw, but this is the first I have ever heard of it being done.


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## harvest (Oct 1, 2011)

Daniel Holzman said:


> OK, concrete nails by definition are supposed to be driven into concrete using a hammer. If the concrete is too hard to drive the concrete nail, then they should not be used. If your Ramset was not working, you might have had too low a charge. As I recall from my days using a Ramset, there was a .22 Ramset, not real good for hard concrete, and a .38 Ramset. As I recall, there were various loads for the .38, I believe the purple was a large charge, and when we used the .38 with the heavy charge and an appropriate nail, you could drive it into the hardest concrete on earth. I can't quite understand how the nails hold if you drilled a hole, I guess it is like predrilling for a wood screw, but this is the first I have ever heard of it being done.


I tried a ramset .022 with the biggest load possible (yellow) and it did not work. I drilled holes in concrete using bits of 5/32 inches, while nail diameter was 3/16". Probably, as you are saying, I should have tried a .38 ramset, but I got discouraged of that first experience with .22...Now you are making me wonder if those nails will ever keep 2x4s fixed into concrete for a long time  Any comment?


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

hilty dx351 mean machine will shoot into 3/4" steel beam...and even the hardest concrete:yes::thumbup:


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

If your concerned use PLpremium or similar product to 'glue' them down as well.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Please tell us the 2x4s are pressure treated. Otherwise, you've done a heck of a lot of work for nothing.


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

don't use pressure treated in doors


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## harvest (Oct 1, 2011)

First, I almost missed the importance of pressure treated wood, but reading more about its use I decided to go with regular heat treated wood...The guy at Home Depot explained that once in contact with humidity the pressure treated wood can be dangerous because of the chemicals used during its processing. I know that there are pros and cons for each, but why would you say that that work was done for nothing if no pressure treated wood been used?


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

harvest said:


> ...The guy at Home Depot explained


Your first problem was listening to him. 

There is a reason most if not all codes call for pt boards in contact with the floor.

B


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

I would like to see the code where it says to use pressure treated wood inside a home. I have never in all my years heard of it. If you are referring to bluwood,that is something else. Bluwood is a two part, preconstruction wood protection system. The lumber has a film on it that helps prevent moister from seaping into the wood and also protects against fungus and wood eating insects.


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

When wood is used as a sill plate the use of sill foam is ....according to code....to be used. Correct me if I am wrong here.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The new pressure treated wood is treated with copper, so unless you ate it, lapped it or got it in a wound there is no danger from it once it's sealed in a wall.
Since your basment is dry and I think you said you used tar paper under it you may get away with it. But in some cases the dry wood soaks up moisture like a sponge and rots out when it comes in contact with the acidic chemiclas in concrete.
If I had of ever heard that conversation with a customer I would have gone screaming for the manager.
It shocks me sometimes when people on here tell us some of the misinformation they have been given at the box stores.


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

I think this is why I do not use it.
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/65891.pdf


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Canadian and US codes must be differant. Any slab foundation home has to have pressure treated wood used as a bottom plate, as well as any basement bottom plates.
Even a garage would have pressure treated as a bottom plate.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Just a note - there are no acidic materials in water around concrete since concrete is an alkaline material that neutraliazes the the acids from the wood treatment and other materials. Just make sure to use the proper nails or connectors that must be used to resist the corrosion from the wood treatment chemicals.

Dick


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## harvest (Oct 1, 2011)

Thank you all for your comments and advice. Since I have gone too far to make any change on what I have already done, I would ask: Do I need outdors plywood for my floor? Should the underlayment put between plywood and laminated floor be a vapor barier as well? According to the Home Depot guy: no!


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

On your subfloor you should be using 3/4" t&g ply. You should also be using PL Premium on your joists under your ply to glue it to the floor joists as well. Your ply should be attached using 2" screws into the floor joists to guard against warpage and squeaks. You do not need to use exterior grade ply.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

Typically a sill gasket (comes in a foam roll) is used under bottom plates on concrete, that's what I do. Others use PT wood (for the bottom plates only), however I don't see it done this way often around here.

For your flooring, check the manufacturers instructions, some require an underlay, some don't.


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## Canucker (May 5, 2011)

fixrite said:


> I think this is why I do not use it.
> http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/65891.pdf


Not to start a fight, but they found less than 5% of the tolerable limit for arsenic in the air of the worst house. How is that a danger I need to worry about?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Code in this area call for pressure treated wood for sill plates and bottom plates when in contact with concrete----

That's been code for over 25 years,here.


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## JeepNick (Oct 27, 2011)

To fasten bottom plates for my interior walls to the concrete slab, I drilled holes through the wood and into the concrete that were just big enough for a 16d nail to drop right in and out with ease. I then used construction adhesive on the plate and stuck it to the floor, followed by driving two 16d nails through the hole in the wood and into the hole in the concrete. I drove the nails in at the same time, so they are in effect "wedged" in place. That by itself is probably enough to keep the plate in place forever, but with the addition of the construction adhesive...well, lets just say I hope I don't ever have a reason to try and pull the plates up.


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