# Painting walls help after removing wallpaper



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Wash---let dry--lightly sand the walls--it's surprising how many little bits of crud will be stuck to the surface. A latex primer is a very good idea.--Mike--


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Like Zinsser 123 ?? I was told to use OIL primer incase there was ANY glue left ...They said using laytex primer would lift the glue and oil wouldnt .....


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

CVC- the best primer for after stripping is Zinsser Gardz. It is a clear bonding and penetrating sealer, and is actually superior to oil for this. 

good luck.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

is that a laytex product ?? So its not white colored ??

Also I have other walls that I stripped before and washed down and painted with laytex paint, they look fine but If I want to repaint I can just go over the flat laytex on these walls right ?? I assume that IF I painted these walls and the paint is fine then it must be stuck and there must not be any glue on the walls right ??


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

The problem - that's being solved with the gardz - is that glue reside, particularly thick spots, are reactivated later either by the moisture in the paint or even humidity getting through a paint to the glue . It will expand , crack and look bad. Gardz (or oil) will create a vapor barrier that moisture will not penetrate.
Your previous rooms might be ok to repaint, but as stated, as long as nothing is making a barrier to any glue, it could be problems in the future. It's a crap shoot. 
Gardz is unpigmented, a waterborne product that is very thin. It will also dry and be ready to recoat in an hour. 
It's the stuff. Believe me now or believe me later. 

And it's Latex, not laytex.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

the other rooms have been painted a couple years now so they should be fine right ?? They still look good ???

You think the Gardz INSTEAD of a oil based Zinnser white low order primer ??


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh, and just a low knap roller ??


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

yes, and go slow- it is thin.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

you thnk the other rooms are ok ?? Again they have been painted for at least 2 yrs and look good


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

"Your previous rooms might be ok to repaint, but as stated, as long as nothing is making a barrier to any glue, it could be problems in the future. It's a crap shoot. "


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

so even though the other 2 rooms have been painted a couple years and look good if I recoat they MAY bubble up ??? On of them has 2 coats of two different colored paints doen a few years apart and never had a problem. Guess I just dont see how after this many years and coats of paint how one more would be a problem....


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Question answered. Twice.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Humm...So...IF I repaint the other rooms that are painted I still should use Gardz before recoating ???

Also any other product I can use other than Gardz because noone around here has that Zinnser product


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

I cant find Gardz anywhere, will an oil based primer work ??


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

You need to prime with an oil base primer. This will seal the walls and prevent any leftover residue from activating which would bubble the new paint off of the walls. I prefer Sherwin Williams low voc fast drying oil primer.


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

cvcman said:


> I cant find Gardz anywhere, will an oil based primer work ??


I personally wouldnty use zinsser guard, as its a water base product and if there is any residue left on the wall the water in the guards could activate it causing bubbling. I always prime a wall with an oil base primer after wallpaper removal. This way I know I'm safe to put a latex coating over that.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Yea thats what my paint guy at the store said too. He said get off what you can then fix any bad spots with mud,sand and prime with low odor oil primer then top coat. He said he could tint the primer to match the top coat...The Guardz does say its made to go over paste but im going the oil based primer route, thx


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

cvcman said:


> Yea thats what my paint guy at the store said too. He said get off what you can then fix any bad spots with mud,sand and prime with low odor oil primer then top coat. He said he could tint the primer to match the top coat...The Guardz does say its made to go over paste but im going the oil based primer route, thx


Get off what you can first. Then wash the walls well. Lightly sand the walls by hand. Then prime with an oil primer. Then repair the walls as needed, prime your repairs with a latex primer and then apply paint of your choice


----------



## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Call your local ACE stores.

I've literally got 3 gallons & 4 qts. on my shelf today. Supplied thru ACE too.

You CAN use the Latex-stainblocker Zinsser 123, but you have to watch it. Use a good full coat. Discoloration may still happen from glue wanting to push thru. If it does, and you used 123, wait a half day, so the 123 can "harden-off" some in the staining area. 
Now, roll another coat of 123 over any blotching areas, feathering-out to no edge. This will encapsulate remaining bleeds. Let dry 'till next day, and paint away!

With OIL primers, roll on a full coat, and you're painting 2-3 hours later with some. Check your particular Oil-primers' dry-time however!!

The better choice though is the Gardz. Do EXACTLY as Brush said on that point!! Gardz is meant for EXACTLY this use, and for locking-down torn drywall edges, chalky "cheap" Flat paints, etc. It penetrates porous films like this, and seals-'em up.

>>> Simplistically speaking, it's like rolling-on light "glue".
* If you have to do any repairs, wait 'til AFTER Gardz is dry...THEN do the fills sanding, etc.
* NOW...prime repair-areas, then prime the whole wall. Repairs will now have TWO coats of primer over them.
* Result? A perfectly repaired and locked-down wall that won't have any bleed from any missed paste. The sheen of your new paint will be perfectly even, since you've primed the whole surface well after repairs.
* Remember....underneath all this is the Gardz layer, holding back glue, etc.

Faron


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Faron79 said:


> Call your local ACE stores.
> 
> I've literally got 3 gallons & 4 qts. on my shelf today. Supplied thru ACE too.
> 
> ...



That sounds like a lot of primining. Why not prime the wall with a fast dry low voc oil base primer? Then make repairs, prime your repairs and then paint? If guards is a water base there is a possibility that down the road it could reactivate any leftover wallpaper residue and cause the primer and paint to fail. Especially scene water can remove wallpaper. if you apply one coat of oil primer the walls are sealed and there will be no bleed through, especially if you use a quality primer.


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Housepaint- No offence but it seems like you have no experience with Gardz. 
It is not like anything else . You can use oil, but this will do it better, faster and with less odor- although that is debatable since Gardz has a strong smell, just not solvent. 
Like Faron said- this is EXACTLY what Gardz does best. Not kinda, not sorta. 
In the past ( 30+yrs) Ive used all sorts of oil, 123, Kilz Bin etc. to do this. Gardz is the deal.


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Brushjockey said:


> Housepaint- No offence but it seems like you have no experience with Gardz.
> It is not like anything else . You can use oil, but this will do it better, faster and with less odor- although that is debatable since Gardz has a strong smell, just not solvent.
> Like Faron said- this is EXACTLY what Gardz does best. Not kinda, not sorta.
> In the past ( 30+yrs) Ive used all sorts of oil, 123, Kilz Bin etc. to do this. Gardz is the deal.


I personally don't use any zinseer products. I am just saying how I do it. My concern would be that if guards is water base that it may at some point activate any residue left on the wall causing the primer to fail and then causing the paint to fail. I have always used a fast dry oil primer over walls after the wallpaper has been removed and on plaster walls. If you have 30 years experience then you have probably seen paint fail on a wall because wallpaper was removed and there was improper prep done.


----------



## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Water-based doesn't mean there's much, if ANY actual water in it.

>>> It just means the resins in Gardz can be diluted/cleaned with water.

Read this link to Gardz:
Explicitly states...."...uncoated wallpaper, wallcovering adhesive residue..."

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=221

Once Gardz dries, it's impermeable. NOTHING is gonna come thru it.
Adhesive problem = HISTORY.

As I mentioned, any repairs can be done ON TOP of Gardz.
Make sure you prime again over repairs however. You can use Gardz again, or a "traditional" Latex primer so it's easier to see where you're painting.

Faron


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok if I use the oil primer what length nap roller ?? Also what length nap roller for the finish laytex ? Can I do the repairs with mud then sand then prime if the repair area has no glue and the repair looks good when dry ??


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

They told me to use Inflex ? Ben Moore orderless oil primer with 3/8" knap


----------



## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

cvcman said:


> They told me to use Inflex ? Ben Moore orderless oil primer with 3/8" knap


Its an oil base primer, so it will work. A 3/8 inch nap roller is what you will need to apply the primer. After primer lightly hand sand the walls, make any repairs, prime the repairs and then apply your paint.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

How "powerfull" of an smell will it have ?? Its cold here and windows are closed.
Why the need to sand after primer ??


----------



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

CVC- Sorry to put it bluntly, but I think you should hire someone to do this. 
I don't think you should count on some forum to hold your hand on every minor step and expect a good outcome.
JMO-


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

housepaintingny said:


> I personally don't use any zinseer products. I am just saying how I do it. My concern would be that if guards is water base that it may at some point activate any residue left on the wall causing the primer to fail and then causing the paint to fail. I have always used a fast dry oil primer over walls after the wallpaper has been removed and on plaster walls. If you have 30 years experience then you have probably seen paint fail on a wall because wallpaper was removed and there was improper prep done.


 
To be blunt, you would be wrong.
As has been posted, Gardz was made( actually copied) just for this purpose. I have applied hundreds of gallons of it and it's founder, Draw Tite. on countless square feet of walls and it does not fail.
Oil will certainly work and work well, but why deal the smell and expense?


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey Brush, sorry to put it bluntly to you but....If you want to pay to have my job done, fine..If not this is a help forum so if you have nothing better to offer than these type of responses PLEASE dont respond...

Housepaintingny, thank you for your help,you sound like you know what you are talking about....My paint store told me the same thing re; Guardz and he was / is a pro paperhanger/painter...


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Sure wish I could find something to remove this old glue better...Im using Prinna stripper with hot water and a scrubby sponge and a razor scraper...It takes an hour to do a 6ft x 8ft section.....Wish I could just prime over all the glue,lol


----------



## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Hey CVC-

This is gonna sound weird, but it works...

Once your walls have 2 applications of stripper applied, about 15 min. apart, apply a sheet of light painter's-plastic...

TO THE WHOLE WALL/room.

I mean literally cover ALL wall area with plastic!!!
* This keeps the solution in better contact with adhesive.
* Main reason: it keeps the solution working, and NOT LETTING IT DRY OUT.
* TIME is your friend here...let the stripping-solution do the work!!!
* Once plastic is up, go out to eat, or take a nap.
* When you're ready, just peel back some plastic and start scraping. Leave plastic on other walls. Just peel as you go.

THEN...rinse-rinse-rinse.
Let dry a day or so.

Lastly...guess what...haul out the Gardz!

Faron


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

cvcman said:


> Hey Brush, sorry to put it bluntly to you but....If you want to pay to have my job done, fine..If not this is a help forum so if you have nothing better to offer than these type of responses PLEASE dont respond...
> 
> Housepaintingny, thank you for your help,you sound like you know what you are talking about....My paint store told me the same thing re; Guardz and he was / is a pro paperhanger/painter...[/quote]
> 
> ...


----------



## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

As long as you have the paper off and you are just dealing with left over glue residue on the wall then Guards is fine.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Chris, well he is neither, he sells Gardz in their store too and gave the nod to the oil baed low odor primer, seems split here...Try to refrain from name calling it just makes you look bad:yes:

Mathew I have most of it cleaned off, the other reason for I like the oil based primer idea is because it can be tinted to the color im finishing...I appreciate your insight and do you see a problem going the primer route and not the Guardz IF I have it 95% clean ?
Thanks


----------



## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

Oil will work no matter what. I have seen Guards bubble wallpaper big time, but that was because the customer didn't want to have it stripped.


----------



## cvcman (Mar 8, 2011)

Yea I talked to another painter today and he said teh Guardz will "probably" be fine, but the oil primer there is NO doubt...


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

hey, cvc, just paint the blasted oil, :yes:


----------



## lark (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey cvcman, 

maybe you need the help of a professional?! Why don't you check out myhammer.com and see if there is a pro in your area who might help you out.


----------

