# Extend House Roof Over Back Deck



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Is this new construction?
Or you want a roof over that white deck?

If not post a pic that show the roof angle & deck from the side & front


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

I've been trying to ad the original pics of the new deck to my original thread but am having trouble. Hope this works. I deleted the extra thread of the same name. Not sure if it'll work. Here goes...


----------



## Five Star (Mar 19, 2009)

it looks like you got it going good. find the pitch of you existing roof, put a header on those posts, figure out the rise,make a template rafter with the birds mouth and over hangs and start setting rafters,should be a nice weekend project


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks. What's a birds mouth? Some things I'm assuming...the new east end beam will sit on top of the east posts due to the existing beam (which I will butt into and attach with a nice big tee plate or something fabricated due to some finishing detail). But the west side I'm not too sure about...The existing beam on the house is the top peak and the support posts are staggered from that beam so again, I assume I need to install a new beam there 90 degrees to the house? Maybe a 2x10 or 2x12 (not sure of size either but thought I would match for esthetics) on each side of the posts or somethin'? It needs to be bolted to the west posts so it's secure, correct? I dunno. The underside will be finished in T&G cedar or something nice to hide everything. Like the cladding of the posts I'll dio similar to the beams...particularly this west beam. The rafters will run E-W.


----------



## Five Star (Mar 19, 2009)

it looks like in your other post you have 6x6 so why not notch those to seat a header then bolt it together for a permenent connection, a birds mouth is a seat and plumb cut you will need to make for a good connection between the headers.


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

The pics of the finished deck were sent with another thread of the same name and I've been trying to attach to the original but can't figure out yet...don't have any time now time now...will attach them to this original thread once (and if) I figure out how...sorry for the confusion. 

Five Star?---the posts are 3/4" cedar cladded 4x4's. (Just made to look bigger!)


----------



## Five Star (Mar 19, 2009)

Lay it out with a framing square.
Cut it almost all the way (don't over-cut the line on either side) with a skill (circular) saw.
Finish both cuts with either a Sabre Saw (Jig Saw) or a Sawzall, or as I do, simply a good hand saw. Takes about a minute or less with a hand saw.

There are three basic cuts used in creating the rafter; the plumb cut at the top of the rafter where it fits against the ridge plate; the tail cut that creates the outside edge of the building eaves; and the bird's mouth, which positions the rafter on the top of the wall plate. 

Hold the framing square with the manufacturer's name up; this is called the “face” of the square, and the opposite side is the “back.” The long arm of the square is the “blade,” and the short arm is the “tongue.”

In this example we'll use a 1/3 pitch as shown in the drawing below, this means a rise of 8 inches for each 12 inches of run (an 8/12 pitch roof). 

The first step is to lay the square on the edge of the rafter board and locate 8 inches on the tongue (the rise), and 12 inches on the blade (the unit of run). All on the *same side* of the framing square. Measure from the point on the blade to the point on the tongue—it should be 14-7/16 inches. Multiply this by the run of the building. We're using 10 feet in this example, excluding the overhang. The resulting figure is 144-3/8 inches. (14.4375 x 10=144.375 or 14 3/8") We add 12 inches for the overhang to get a final figure of 156-3/8 inches. 

Now, what this means in simple terms is this. You know that it takes a longer piece of wood to run up the slope of a roof than it does to simply lay flat across the floor. Shucks you can look up and plainly see that. But how much longer? That's where (in this case) you use the 14-7/16" you figured out with the distance between the two framing square measurements.

For every 12 inches a board stretches across the floor, (in this case 10 of those 12" increments since it's 10' feet across) it would take 14-7/16" running up a slope to cover the same *level* distance.

Of course, the steeper the roof, the longer the slanted (rake) length of wood would be required to cover that same 12" across the floor. Conversely, the lower the rake (closer to level and flat) the shorter the measurement would be till it eventually returned to 12" again when the wood was again laying on the floor.

Here's a tip that may help your visualization while laying out rafters: The only cuts used on a common rafter are the plumb and level... and maybe on a cheap job, a square cut on the end. 
Attached Images


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks Five Star...You have a name I can use? . Mine's Lori. You would make a good instructor... Appreciated! Gonna drive home now and get back to this tomorrow. Have a nice evening!


----------



## Five Star (Mar 19, 2009)

thanks lori, im Nathan..have a good ride home and keep on smiling, its not as hard as it sounds. your half way there. pm me if you have any questions


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Lori, from what I've seen of the deck construction, I would not put a roof on it. It doesn't look like it will stand the weight.The vertical posts don't seem to have any connection to the deck itself except the posts nearest the house. The post bases look like there just sitting on the concrete. The ones on those little concrete blocks seem to be off center with some sort of Teco connectors dangling off the side of the block.
If the roof is built like the deck, it will collapse and kill somebody.
This structure needs to be looked at by someone knowledgeable before you continue.
Ron


----------



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

1st

Go get a permit
Since if they don't like what you have already done they may make you rip it down or modify it


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

You could just ask, Ron...the 9 posts are all connected to the piers or foundation in some fashion using the required galvanised, dble dipped coatings and connectors recommended by the manufacturer, not to go into details here. Those connectors were just sitting there in a pile or next to the posts. The posts weren't connected in the photo at that time. All bottom plates on the structure below are also hitied down to the foundation...attached again, to the deck. The piers are also connected to the 1 1/2'x1 1/2' footings with the pour. All the vertical posts on the deck, do infact penetrate the deck right through to the posts below and are all bolted, again with 4 dble dipped 1/2" thru bolts each to the joists. 

I won't be getting a permit here so we won't need to discuss that again. 

I'll get help where I can get it and this does including speaking with an architect shortly who does a lot of work for my employer. I am the building operator/project manager for the last 10 years for this facility. This roof will not kill anyone once I'm done with it so please don't make any assumptions. I won't be doing this in a hurry, trust me.


----------



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Justahome said:


> You could just ask, Ron...the 9 posts are all connected to the piers or foundation in some fashion using the required galvanised, dble dipped coatings and connectors recommended by the manufacturer, not to go into details here. Those connectors were just sitting there in a pile or next to the posts. The posts weren't connected in the photo at that time. All bottom plates on the structure below are also hitied down to the foundation...attached again, to the deck. The piers are also connected to the 1 1/2'x1 1/2' footings with the pour. All the vertical posts on the deck, do infact penetrate the deck right through to the posts below and are all bolted, again with 4 dble dipped 1/2" thru bolts each to the joists.
> 
> I won't be getting a permit here so we won't need to discuss that again.
> 
> I'll get help where I can get it and this does including speaking with an architect shortly who does a lot of work for my employer. I am the building operator/project manager for the last 10 years for this facility. This roof will not kill anyone once I'm done with it so please don't make any assumptions. I won't be doing this in a hurry, trust me.


 I responded to the information you provided in the photos. You said you were putting a roof on "that" deck. That deck was not properly secured. My assumptions were based upon the information provided.
Glad to hear you secured the posts.
The question is still, did someone with framing experience look at the deck construction? Is it capable of supporting a roof structure? Were the footings poured to the correct depth?
Don't want anyone to get hurt. Decks fall off houses at a fairly good clip. Especially during the warm weather.
Ron


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

When you ask for help, you will also get observations. Some advice is from people and some is from professionals. 

Ask your architect: what is the freeze depth for my pier blocks in my area, 8"; 
could I have run 4x4's from roof to concrete (16'); 
can I use doug/fir for the deck joists; do you think these piers will hold the load; 
with double rims all around, what is the post/deck connection (they don't extend down); 
and do I have to face nail cedar horizontal siding as per manufacture, even with 4" exposure; 
do you think any water will follow the lags in my house post and rot the sheathing under the stucco, when it dries and shrinks?

Make sure to call your home insurance company, to let them know your deck is on the edge of the property and built without city's approval. Be safe, GBAR


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks Ron. I understand your observation now when I went back to look at it. I also have that thought in my head and I will be hiring a carpenter with this experience to do the job with my help as I know I won't be able to do this one on my own. 

Gbar, your questions are good and made from your observations as well. I appreciate that. Now I am learning some more things. The lag bolts securing that post I will address with the Arch too but I will also comment on your other questions incase they get answered here. (I will bring them up with the Arch as well.) 

1. No one mentioned the 3 posts holding some of the weight near the center. I wanted these to take some off the 3 footings in the ground where those small piers are. 
I'm hoping this will have an impact on the 3 front posts. 

2. 16' posts would have been too long. I considered that. I also have many shorter posts...so I decided to use them. I hope that was not a mistake, but not sure if you can go with longer posts here. I believe the max is 16'?... so that would not have worked. 

3. I was not aware that DF would not be acceptable for the joists? Based on loading charts I referred to, DF was the superior material. The rim joists are PT 2x10. The only dble is the beam in the front, same material. This beam sits on the 3 front posts and these posts are attached to this beam with thick gauge angle iron (steel) I obtained off our new industrial washing machines iremoved aftershipping. I thought they were superior to what I found at the lumber stores. They are painted (I put a layer of roofing peal and stick between them and the PT) and screwed them in using two 1/2" x 3" lags for each angle bracket...2 angles/post, 4 bolts per post connection. The thickness of the angle bracket is approx 3/16". Hope that was acceptable. (I saw the contractors removing them...I couldn't let them go to waste.) all other connectors used for the other post-to-deck were the connectors Ron was referring to in the earlier photos. Also, the bottom and top plates of the storeage below are hiltied down to the foundation and nailed into the joists above and bottom/top plates toenailed to posts. All connectors/nails are galvanized to be used with the new chemical wood treatment (ccccccc bla bla whatever they call it.) 

4. The upper posts I mentioned earlier but will again, are attached to the rim joists and center joist usng 1/2" thru bolts x4 per post and these posts sit directly on top of the post below. 

5. The deck layers are 5/8 ext ply t&g screwed to joists using required deck screws and minimum spacing between joints, staggered. Another layer of same, staggered from joints below, same screws just penetrating the ply below. 1/4 cement board, screwed using required screws and mortared joints. Primer for peel and stick roofing membrane recommended by Schluter. Schluter Ditra mortared onto roofing membrane. Posts and other areas requiring water-proofing have Jiffy seal applied. porceline tiled surface with schuter expansion joint. The posts which penetrate the deck...

My point? I am aware that having posts penetrate the deck surface is not recommended due to water penetration but these posts penetrate the entire deck and will allow water run-off thru the deck, not into the deck when my posts start to "check" (the other reason for the cedar-clad posts). The Jiffy seal has been installed as per instructions by the Jiffy Seal (extremely stretchy rubber membrane material for around windows and other openings) manuf and can be seen in the photos. (Rep drew me a sketch for my appplication.) I'm hoping to attach pics of this but have the earlier pics were a bit confusing and attached on a new thread...a bit of a mess. I'll try now...


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks Ron. I understand your observation now when I went back to look at it. I also have that thought in my head and I will be hiring a carpenter with this experience to do the job with my help as I know I won't be able to do this one on my own. 

Gbar, your questions are good and made from your observations as well. I appreciate that. Now I am learning some more things. The lag bolts securing that post I will address with the Arch too but I will also comment on your other questions incase they get answered here. (I will bring them up with the Arch as well.) 

1. No one mentioned the 3 posts holding some of the weight near the center. I wanted these to take some off the 3 footings in the ground where those small piers are. 
I'm hoping this will have an impact on the 3 front posts. 

2. 16' posts would have been too long. I considered that. I also have many shorter posts...so I decided to use them. I hope that was not a mistake, but not sure if you can go with longer posts here. I believe the max is 16'?... so that would not have worked. 

3. I was not aware that DF would not be acceptable for the joists? Based on loading charts I referred to, DF was the superior material. The rim joists are PT 2x10. The only dble is the beam in the front, same material. This beam sits on the 3 front posts and these posts are attached to this beam with thick gauge angle iron (steel) I obtained off our new industrial washing machines iremoved aftershipping. I thought they were superior to what I found at the lumber stores. They are painted (I put a layer of roofing peal and stick between them and the PT) and screwed them in using two 1/2" x 3" lags for each angle bracket...2 angles/post, 4 bolts per post connection. The thickness of the angle bracket is approx 3/16". Hope that was acceptable. (I saw the contractors removing them...I couldn't let them go to waste.) all other connectors used for the other post-to-deck were the connectors Ron was referring to in the earlier photos. Also, the bottom and top plates of the storeage below are hiltied down to the foundation and nailed into the joists above and bottom/top plates toenailed to posts. All connectors/nails are galvanized to be used with the new chemical wood treatment (ccccccc bla bla whatever they call it.) 

4. The upper posts I mentioned earlier but will again, are attached to the rim joists and center joist usng 1/2" thru bolts x4 per post and these posts sit directly on top of the post below. 

5. The deck layers are 5/8 ext ply t&g screwed to joists using required deck screws and minimum spacing between joints, staggered. Another layer of same, staggered from joints below, same screws just penetrating the ply below. 1/4 cement board, screwed using required screws and mortared joints. Primer for peel and stick roofing membrane recommended by Schluter. Schluter Ditra mortared onto roofing membrane. Posts and other areas requiring water-proofing have Jiffy seal applied. porceline tiled surface with schuter expansion joint. The posts which penetrate the deck...

My point? I am aware that having posts penetrate the deck surface is not recommended due to water penetration but these posts penetrate the entire deck and will allow water run-off thru the deck, not into the deck when my posts start to "check" (the other reason for the cedar-clad posts). The Jiffy seal has been installed as per instructions by the Jiffy Seal (extremely stretchy rubber membrane material for around windows and other openings) manuf and can be seen in the photos. (Rep drew me a sketch for my appplication.) I'm hoping to attach pics of this but have the earlier pics were a bit confusing and attached on a new thread...a bit of a mess. I'll try now...

Oops, the pics are on my work computer. If anyone wants to see them let me know. I can send them tomorrow. 

Thanks. I look forward to more feedback if possible otherwise I'll be talking to the Arch. later this week.


----------



## Justahome (Apr 3, 2009)

Well, I messed up my reply...Now I have another new thread. Can anyone tell me how to "edit" and attach pics so that it doesn't become a new thread. I'm sorry! 

(I thought going advanced would do it with the pics but that's what happened.)


----------

