# Area under deck gets muddy, what to fill with?



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Pavers are going to be prettier and more usable...but also more expensive and more effort. What are you down to tackle?


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Windows on Wash said:


> Pavers are going to be prettier and more usable...but also more expensive and more effort. What are you down to tackle?


You mean more effort of leveling the ground?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The whole area should be 6" lower.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

miserkris1 said:


> You mean more effort of leveling the ground?



What he said....




Nealtw said:


> The whole area should be 6" lower.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Are you up to pouring some concrete? It solves the mud problem and helps with drainage as it should be sloping away from the house. From the concrete edge, a french drain can carry the water away further.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,..... The grade is too high at the steps, creatin' a dam, blockin' water flow away from the house,.....


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Yodaman said:


> Are you up to pouring some concrete? It solves the mud problem and helps with drainage as it should be sloping away from the house. From the concrete edge, a french drain can carry the water away further.


What's cheaper guys concrete or pavers? Plus anyway i can get pavers cheap in bulk or should I just get from home depot etc.? 

Either way to make it professional looking I'll hire someone to do this. 

Issue i have is grading and water thru deck boards falling and killing grass.... etc.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Cheaper = gravel


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Windows on Wash said:


> Cheaper = gravel


Or rocks? 

Rocks might not be a terrible idea considering they will allow water to drain into the ground and dissipate on its own instead of adding drainage with concrete. 

Right?


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

If you go to the right landscape supply place, you can find much nicer "rocks" than just 3/4 under limestone gravel. I have red granite under my deck. 


But as previously mentioned, the whole area looks too high. And looks like a downspout dumping right against the foundation -- should be dumping 6-8' away.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Gravel or stone may look nice but doesn't do anything about the drainage issues here. You will still have water seeping down right next to the foundation. And +1 on that gutter down spout, that needs to be fixed pronto. 

If the whole area was dug down about 6 or 8 inches and graded away from the house, it could be built back up with stone and compacted gravel with pavers installed over.
It would do a decent job of shedding water away.
But again, my first choice here is concrete. Then you know all the water will be draining away from the house and deck.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Thx...
Never had issue with that spout , that gutter runs into perforated tubing and dunno where it ends. 

Never seen water oozing out of that ... see pic... thx


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Good, from the earlier pic, it looked as though it was dumping right there in the corner.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> that gutter runs into perforated tubing *and dunno where it ends. *


Ayuh,..... That's kinda important,.....

Yer dumpin' _Alota_ water into it until you remove the dam, 'n pitch the grade _Away_ from the house,.....
I imagine what perks down from the wet spot, also get's to that pipe, eventually,.....


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

https://www.familyhandyman.com/decks/building-a-deck/under-deck-roof/


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Maybe some Envirotile? https://www.homedepot.com/s/envirotile?NCNI-5

We're using them as a temporary patio while we decide what we're doing for a new deck. So far they've gone through a full year (fully exposed) and they look basically brand new.


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

As others have mentioned the problem is two-fold and it is more than rain coming down through the deck. There is ground behind the short block wall and it is going to be acting like a sponge to let water percolate down the grade and to the area where the flooding has occurred along with the damage to the exterior wall. 

Excavating the dirt away from the house is the first step. That may be enough or you may need to run a French drain to carry the water further from the house.


Putting anything over the ground will accomplish nothing as the water will still be there and it will be wicked into the walls of your house (and this will be expensive to repair.


Good thing is that it appears that you have easy access to this area to bring in a Bobcat and fix the grading around your house. You have to fix a defect created by the home builder and overlooked by the inspector (not uncommon).


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

Calson said:


> Good thing is that it appears that you have easy access to this area to bring in a Bobcat and fix the grading around your house. You have to fix a defect created by the home builder and overlooked by the inspector (not uncommon).


Is regrading really necessary? It looks like the house is on a hill, with the back lawn sloping downwards away from the house. Could the OP put in a french drain in the lowest spot under the deck, and route the pipe to an outlet somewhere on the hillside? As long as the drainpipe is always flowing downhill, that should move the water away from the soggy spot, even if there's a "dam" that blocks the flow at the surface.

This is a bit more of a DIY-friendly project than renting a bobcat. Especially if the OP uses a prefab french drain. All he has to do is dig a trench with a shovel, toss the drain in, and fill it back up.

Oh, and as long as that spot gets a decent amount of sun, grass will grow there once the swamp is drained. Just loosen the topsoil, maybe mix in some compost, sprinkle grass seed, and wait. Best done in early fall.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

snic said:


> Is regrading really necessary? It looks like the house is on a hill, with the back lawn sloping downwards away from the house. Could the OP put in a french drain in the lowest spot under the deck, and route the pipe to an outlet somewhere on the hillside? As long as the drainpipe is always flowing downhill, that should move the water away from the soggy spot, even if there's a "dam" that blocks the flow at the surface.
> 
> This is a bit more of a DIY-friendly project than renting a bobcat. Especially if the OP uses a prefab french drain. All he has to do is dig a trench with a shovel, toss the drain in, and fill it back up.
> 
> Oh, and as long as that spot gets a decent amount of sun, grass will grow there once the swamp is drained. Just loosen the topsoil, maybe mix in some compost, sprinkle grass seed, and wait. Best done in early fall.


He has a drain pipe for the downspout, he can tie a drain into that.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Something like this.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Thx guys. That area i highlighted is very flat... hence no water draining onto the hill slope. 

Been talking to a Mason. 
He suggested gravel or concrete. Will give estimate soon. 

1)
If concrete he'd dig the dirt enough to give a sloping (or French drain).

Btw i already have a French drain for a sump pump inside walkout basement. It was stagnating water so installed it, extended the piping 10 yr ago. Works great even now.... drains ~30 feet downhill .

Maybe i can route it to same French drain? 

2)
If gravel he suggests a tiny sized one that's easy on the feet.. Over weed prevention sheets. 

Does he still have to give a slope for gravel?

3)
If you see to near the house wall i have hostas should i start the work from that little area that goes in a bit near the a.c condenser so any future seepage doesn't affect the house? 

Initially thought I'll leave that 3.5x9 feet area for existing hostas !

Please advise the 3 questions above. 
Appreciate everyone chiming in


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You hostas garden is about 10 inches to high, there should be about 6" of foundation of the house showing everywhere. If you do gravel the dirt below the gravel needs to have a slope so the water runs away from the house. I doubt you would be happy with pea gravel, if that is what he is talking about.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I see you have been practicing you graphics skills. Getting pretty good. Looks like Microsoft Paint.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

SPS-1 said:


> I see you have been practicing you graphics skills. Getting pretty good. Looks like Microsoft Paint.


t'is............ I am getting better.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

miserkris1 said:


> Btw i already have a French drain for a sump pump inside walkout basement. It was stagnating water so installed it, extended the piping 10 yr ago. Works great even now.... drains ~30 feet downhill


You detached the footing drain from the sump? Or added a separate outside drain (I see a greenish corrugated pipe by the corner) that empties in the backyard?



miserkris1 said:


> 2) If gravel he suggests a tiny sized one that's easy on the feet..
> 3) If you see to near the house wall i have hostas should i start the work from that little area that goes in a bit near the a.c condenser so any future seepage doesn't affect the house?


It sounds like you were originally just going to get some cheap 16" patio blocks to lay down on the dirt. I see a three-fold path depending on your budget, sweat equity, or if you want to match the value of the house:

- Fix the water: You have to dig down, slope away, maybe add french drain. The dirt (with a little gravel on top) by the downspout is too high. The dirt at the hostas is too high. That will cause rot and bugs. It should have 6"-8" of exposed concrete foundation below the stucco. Whether you put back gravel, pavers, concrete or grass is your decision. 

- Clean it up: Move the hostas out. Hardscape (gravel?) that area to prevent the dirt splashup and algae. Allow clear space around the a/c condenser.

- Usable space: You have a desirable walkout not being utilized. Unfortunately the deck builder placed a stair post in the way. But if desired you could put a patio down there that connects to the stair. It could be pavers, concrete, or chipped stone (no pea gravel). Since you get sun below, you could even leave it grass, just keep an area clear next the house and around the a/c condenser.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

3onthetree said:


> You detached the footing drain from the sump? Or added a separate outside drain (I see a greenish corrugated pipe by the corner) that empties in the backyard?
> 
> :
> 
> ...


Thx, 
The townhome came with sump pump output just ending where hostas are, later i connected a long buried tube into a French drain downhill. Not in pic. 

I never knew you need exposed foundation below stucco. You're right that hostas area is always buggy, wet. 

I think I'll do gravel where hostas are too and ensure they slope away. Container plants in gravel looks good! 

When i search pics in Google i see different color pea gravel. 

What kind of gravel good for this project? I don't want too dark.

Are wood beams good as border for gravel patio?


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

miserkris1 said:


> The townhome came with sump pump output just ending where hostas are, later i connected a long buried tube into a French drain downhill


Just to clarify, a french drain is a pipe with holes in it. If you are putting the sump water into a french drain near the house, it will spit water out all along this pipe. Hopefully, you are referring to a small solid PVC pipe extension underground under the deck that eventually meets up with a french drain in the backyard.



miserkris1 said:


> I never knew you need exposed foundation below stucco


There are different methods of stucco, and I'm not sure how they finished the bottom transition detail. Keep the soil below that and you'll be safe.



miserkris1 said:


> What kind of gravel good for this project? I don't want too dark.
> Are wood beams good as border for gravel patio?


You can get all different colors of chipped stone or even river rock. "Pea gravel" is a certain type that will move around too much when you walk on it. Stay away from any wood buried in dirt, it stays moist, rots and attracts unwanted problems.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

3onthetree said:


> Just to clarify, a french drain is a pipe with holes in it. If you are putting the sump water into a french drain near the house, it will spit water out all along this pipe. Hopefully, you are referring to a small solid PVC pipe extension underground under the deck that eventually meets up with a french drain in the backyard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, a long pipe under grass then to French drain at exactly where i stood to take first pic. 

Just realised most townhomes here don't show foundation, community is on hill for sure! 

I thought treated wood cheaper to replace every 2 years, to be a border .

To reduce cost what if i fill the gravel after i shop for it after Mason slopes the dirt, nails the weed preventer? 

Should i get from HD , LOWE'S or some other discount place for various gravel at best rate? Thx

Here are 3 pics.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Stucco absorbs water and it drains out the back to the bottom, when you have the dirt to high the water can wick up behind into the wood structure. 

The wood structure is the same level as the bottom of the doors.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

miserkris1 said:


> I thought treated wood cheaper to replace every 2 years, to be a border


If you're sticking with gravel, for edging you can get thin strips that are plastic, steel, or recycled rubber and you can curve them easily. Or you can use bricks or pavers, there are even some specialty shaped units if you're into those too. You won't have to replace them every two years, just maybe re-level like you would anything above frost line.



miserkris1 said:


> To reduce cost what if i fill the gravel after i shop for it after Mason slopes the dirt, nails the weed preventer?
> 
> Should i get from HD , LOWE'S or some other discount place for various gravel at best rate?


Buying the bags at the big box eliminate his markup, but more expensive per unit cost but probably easier being a townhome if you're up for the workout.
Not sure why you have a mason digging for you, you just need a laborer with non-mason rates. A landscaper should be able to do it all including the gravel and the dirt haul-off more cheaply. 

2 more notes: 
- Make sure your association allows whatever you do back there.
- The downspout under the deck next door is dumping water that will flow downhill to your retaining wall. Have them extend the pipe out.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Guys, what's the best landscape sheet that's not porous or permeable? What brand? 

Since what i use would be suitable for draining water from the slope I'm building with digging 6 inches and putting gravel on the sheets....

Thx


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The landscapers use a real heavy fabric that can take the punishment from rocks so put that fabric over 10 mill poly


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

3onthetree said:


> :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've decided to dig 6 inches or so in this area bordered by red line. The pink lines are for a French drain. Can i d.i.y
French drain in this shape so as the perforated loop catches all water and sends it to outside downhill away from house into a pebble drain system? 

Will fill the area with river rock 1 inch and ensure there's a slope. 

Also, i checked all the townhomes here and they all have dirt all the way to stucco!


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

If it's stucco or EIFS over a wood-framed walkout, covered in dirt is a problem. If it's a cementious stucco over poured concrete or CMU walls that's a lesser evil, but I would still want it below the transition.

I imagine you're going to use black corrugated pipe for that winding drain. You probably won't have a lot of slope, so straight would be better, as is solid pipe. But backing up a bit if you use poly under the rock, have addressed a slope/downspouts, and dug down, you may not have as much water to drain now. But its a good idea if you're digging anyway. 

P.S. I prefer a geotextile under rock rather than poly, because you can get washout or air pockets appear under poly making it strange to walk on with small size rocks.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

3onthetree said:


> If it's stucco or EIFS over a wood-framed walkout, covered in dirt is a problem. If it's a cementious stucco over poured concrete or CMU walls that's a lesser evil, but I would still want it below the transition.
> 
> I imagine you're going to use black corrugated pipe for that winding drain. You probably won't have a lot of slope, so straight would be better, as is solid pipe. But backing up a bit if you use poly under the rock, have addressed a slope/downspouts, and dug down, you may not have as much water to drain now. But its a good idea if you're digging anyway.
> 
> P.S. I prefer a geotextile under rock rather than poly, because you can get washout or air pockets appear under poly making it strange to walk on with small size rocks.


Yes, it's cementious stucco over poured concrete.... i.e. no wood in inside basement. Only concrete wall. 

I thought the same about a solid straight pipe.... in that case do i put it across ie perpendicular to water flow to downhill? Also it's gotta be a perforated straight PVC pipe like say 3 inch dia? 

I'm thinking I'll put it across and like a "T" connect another PVC same dia all the way downhill with a slope....

I'll ensure perforation on top side as long as it's buried in gravel! 

I also saw this in HD , are these better? 
NDS 900BKIT 9-Inch Catch Basin Kit, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BODU0W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_dnujDbHH30NET


Lmk if this is a good idea... for a diy French drain...

Also should the down spout end in a pebble filled deep hole?

Yes im gonna dig 6 inch anyway, thought redundancy is better that's why French drain, grade and reroute gutters! 
Thx


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

miserkris1 said:


> Yes, it's cementious stucco over poured concrete.... i.e. no wood in inside basement. Only concrete wall.
> 
> I thought the same about a solid straight pipe.... in that case do i put it across ie perpendicular to water flow to downhill? Also it's gotta be a perforated straight PVC pipe like say 3 inch dia?
> 
> ...


 A perforated pipe is just a hole in the gravel so the water can run fast. You want the holes near the bottom so all the water can drain from the area.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> A perforated pipe is just a hole in the gravel so the water can run fast. You want the holes near the bottom so all the water can drain from the area.


So instead of worry about a perfect grade away from stucco, shall i do my best in grading and then still add a French drain at the lowest point in the gravel area? 

Many designs for diy French drain what's the best and long lasting design? (I've been watching YouTube's )


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

miserkris1 said:


> So instead of worry about a perfect grade away from stucco, shall i do my best in grading and then still add a French drain at the lowest point in the gravel area?
> 
> Many designs for diy French drain what's the best and long lasting design? (I've been watching YouTube's )


 If you have no where to drain it to, run it to a lower trench with the perforated pipe so the water can drain into the soil just like a septic field


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

The perforations on a pipe should face down, I keep mine at 4:30/7:30ish (on a clock face) to allow sediment to wash out. You can buy a sleeve sock separately. I believe you may only find 4" perforated thin-wall pipe, but that will connect with any other drainage items you install. The catch basin would be used for surface drainage, but it can be utilized as a cleanout point as well.

If you can't exit the pipe to daylight, then ending it in a gravel pit as mentioned can work, and/or using perforated pipe far away from the house to work in reverse - spilling out some of the water along the way to the end.

"Longest lasting" would entail solid pipe, good fabric/sleeving and gravel, some points for cleanouts, and no adjacent roots.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

I just realized there are 2 gutters from my roof.... can i somehow cut #2 and merge with #1 spout and combine it into a 4 inch hard pvc and run it underground with grading for like 20 feet? (#3)

Sorry i didn't realise it before since i thought the #1 was from my neighbors! 

Best to run it from higher elevation than #2 is running now where i have the not graded right issue! 

Pls advice. 

(I'm still digging and grading the area under deck later on) 

Thanks much


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Yes, combine #2 (which has little water from only a bumpout) into #1 and eliminate dumping next to the slider. I asked about the green corrugated pipe in post #26.

Also when you are done, you should save the longest section of pipe leftover from #1 and use it to extend the neighbors downspout which is under their deck. Or give them the green one, whichever is longest.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

3onthetree said:


> Yes, combine #2 (which has little water from only a bumpout) into #1 and eliminate dumping next to the slider. I asked about the green corrugated pipe in post #26.
> 
> Also when you are done, you should save the longest section of pipe leftover from #1 and use it to extend the neighbors downspout which is under their deck. Or give them the green one, whichever is longest.


Went to HD, they only have elbows 45,90s.... and none that can connect 3 drains....

I'm looking for something like this...
How to connect 1&2 and make a 3 that'll be a combined down spout?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If you are running a pipe from the down spout that section should be solid pipe so it doesn't deposit water where you are trying to gather it.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/NDS-4-in-PVC-45-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-x-Hub-Wye-4P08/100164403


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> If you are running a pipe from the down spout that section should be solid pipe so it doesn't deposit water where you are trying to gather it.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/NDS-4-in-PVC-45-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-x-Hub-Wye-4P08/100164403


Oh i see... so all i need now is 2 x adapter.... for 4 inch solid PVC mouths to that 3 inch metallic drains... like this. 

i got it.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That will work.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Yes, you should have any available shape fitting in 4" pipe. You can either connect below ground with the pipes, or above up higher with the gutters (but I've never looked for a prefab gutter wye, I usually see them custom made).


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

I found another drain from my roof. It's been bypassed and i took a look 
There is a buried piece that still runs water(i put a hose in for 10 min)... never overflowed though i never could find where it drained off lol. 

I wanna remove green plastic bypass and connect using that white connector. 

Issue is that ground piece is stuck i can't even dig there it's rocky and near foundation. It's crushed a bit. 

I plan to straighten with a snip and do my best after which wanna cover it with a 4 inch PVC and fill the gaps. So rain water doesn't leak. 

How to fill gaps between PVC round shape and this aluminum rectangle shape? 

What other option i have since i can't dig it out?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

miserkris1 said:


> I found another drain from my roof. It's been bypassed and i took a look
> There is a buried piece that still runs water(i put a hose in for 10 min)... never overflowed though i never could find where it drained off lol.
> 
> I wanna remove green plastic bypass and connect using that white connector.
> ...


Usually a drain like that has been abandoned for a reason., do you have a basement of crawlspace?


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Usually a drain like that has been abandoned for a reason., do you have a basement of crawlspace?


Wall on right is my basement 2 feet below. To the left of that broken piece is neighbor's basement walkout door same level as broken gutter .....

Whole row is built 2004 on a hill


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

miserkris1 said:


> Wall on right is my basement 2 feet below. To the left of that broken piece is neighbor's basement walkout door same level as broken gutter .....
> 
> Whole row is built 2004 on a hill


I would expect whoever changed that downspout did it for good reason I would cap off the pipe with the crushed top.


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> Usually a drain like that has been abandoned for a reason., do you have a basement of crawlspace?


Mind answering why you asked if we had a basement or crawlspace? Thx


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

miserkris1 said:


> Mind answering why you asked if we had a basement or crawlspace? Thx


When you have water issues in the crawlspace or basement the first thing you do is divert the down spout, just like you found. :wink2:


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## miserkris1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> When you have water issues in the crawlspace or basement the first thing you do is divert the down spout, just like you found. :wink2:


My neighbor and i never had water issues leaking into basement. But when I ran the hose for like 10 solid min i couldn't see where it went downhill where there's a lot of grass now. 

I did find the other downspout (from my 1st post) where it went downhill about 35 feet away. It was a black drain tube the corrugated plastic. When i ran hose it was flowing slowly....(gotta clean that with a line soon) 

So the builder did these originally for all downspouts.


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