# WOW high roof bids (with pics)



## linuxrunner (Oct 18, 2010)

so we are going to be replaceing our ceder roof next summer and are in the process of getting some quotes. 

I have gotten 2 so far and I was shocked to find both bids were more than i expected house is 2100 sq feet not sure the exact size of the roof.

Company A quoted us 14k to do new 30yr comp roof and said that they would not need to put down plywood that the current structure would accommodate.

Company B quoted us 16k for 30yr comp and said they would put down plywood backing.

I realized that it would be a little more because of the steep roof but 16k seems a little high.

Are we just getting bogus quotes because nobody wants to tackle this style roof or is this legit?


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Did either contractor get on the roof or try to look at the decking from below, even though it would be difficult to gain access with that type of construction?

Judging from the age and the obvious deferred maintenance, current debris accumulation and problems with valleys, it makes sense to assume new decking if you expect good guarantee. The detail of the existing conditions can determine what will have to be done for a good job.

You are right about the roof pitch because it increases the square footage of the roof surface AND increases the problems and labor cost above a normal roofing job. The chimney also needs some repairs and a good cap.

Cleaning the valleys and especially the gutters will do wonders for the life of the new roof.

Get another bid and pay attention to what they look at, since it is always easier to throw out a low price and go out of business before there is a problem. Also, question them on what they propose for valley flashing/installation.

Dick


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

What's under the shakes? Are either of them going to flash the dormer/valleys/chimney properly? Is either company properly insured? Roofers WC rates are very high around these parts.

I wouldn't recommend going over shakes, although I've seen it done. To do that roof professionally, neither of those numbers seem overly outrageous to me, assuming proper insurance being held.


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## wnabcptrNH (Jan 29, 2010)

Ask how many square's they figured. I have never paid more than 300-350 per square, remove and replace including dumpsters.


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## linuxrunner (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks all for the reply's :thumbsup:

the pics were from when we first looked at the house before we bought it. Part of the requirements we had as buyers was that they fix the chimney have the roof/gutters cleaned and any leaks patched. It really looks much better now other than the shingles are cupping on the back side of the house. 

Both companies are insured and both went in to the attic to see under the roof. our Inspector, the company that cleaned the roof/fixed the chimney and both roofing companies that did the bids said they saw no evidence of leaks. (surprising) 

Under the shingles is another layer of shingles in much better condition :huh: so it's about 4 shingles deep. 

The companies did give us info on sq footage and what they planed on doing for the valleys and flashing's, I'll see if i can find it and post.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Unless you know the exact square footage of the roof surface instead of the living area square footage, we would all just be guessing on if the prices are within line.

Since both companies are only a bit more than 10 % from each other, at least they are very close.

If you have multiple layers it compounds the difficulty factor form the tear-off and if the bottom layer is also cedar shingles, then you more than likely have spaced board skip sheathing, ie; plank boards with about a 2" gap horizontally between each subsequent board.

Then new Plywood decking would definitely be needed.

Now that becomes cumbersome because there is an extra guy on the ground full time to cut them to fit and you have alot of valleys.

What about the risk factors, not only due to the steep pitch, but also in the event that bad weather rolls in unexpectedly and the roof tear-off in progress needs to be made water-tight immediately and all of the liability issues that come up with that scenario.

Ed


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Bump.

Just curious as to what transpired with this project.

Ed


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

i am curious as well


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

Bids are like rear ends, every roofer has one and they all smell like doody. 

Last time we replaced our roof I got bids from 11k to 3800.00! 4 Br tri level with attached garage, tear off 2 layers some plywood replacement and install 30 yr architectural shingles. Now I'm sure that 11k guy was fishing, but he would have took the job if I had bit. 

Wound up with the MOR bid of $4300.00 from a construction superintendent who was running a crew of Mexican roofers on the side. (Due to hail, there were LOTS of new roofs in our area that summer.) They came out, were competent, cleaned up every day, and got the job done in good order. 

Keep looking for bids and check references.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

hoz49 said:


> Bids are like rear ends, every roofer has one and they all smell like doody.
> 
> Last time we replaced our roof I got bids from 11k to 3800.00! 4 Br tri level with attached garage, tear off 2 layers some plywood replacement and install 30 yr architectural shingles. Now I'm sure that 11k guy was fishing, but he would have took the job if I had bit.
> 
> ...


 
What a good honest American you are. :whistling2:
Who's the "doody"?


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ouf ta! Ya fer sure, you betcha...


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

MJW said:


> What a good honest American you are. :whistling2:
> Who's the "doody"?


Your words are falling on deaf ears my brother.

I had a guy 'Cal' who is part owner in a security company in Canfield, Ohio brag to me about how he hired "3 letters ->" XXX Roofing because he was/still is running a crew of illegals and went on to explain how neat, fast and cheap they worked.
I see him frequently because we both do a lot work for the same GC's/builders here in the Mahoning, Columbiana and Trumbull Counties.
He's always one of the first to complain about high cost of insurance, taxes, etc., and has no idea/won't except that people like him play a large part in causing those high cost.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

:thumbsup:Sometimes subtlety does not work on some people MJW.:thumbsup:

Linuxrunner, In your area it would not be surprising for that roof to run $375-450/sq. As Ed said, we can't say much of anything on your house without knowing at least the total area of the roof. You also have quite a bit of waste with the valleys and the pitch. Not a difficult job but it is very involved and tedious with poor access.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

Oh yeah, I caught his not so "subtleness" But I don't have to play his game do I? Besides, who said anything about "illegals"? I didn't check their papers as they were working for the general contractor ( who is white BTW, not that it matters). That's HIS responsibility. 

In my area (Midwest) almost EVERY roofing crew working after the last hailstorm was Latino! 

I could care less if they spoke Spanish and listened to Conjunto. In fact, I prefer that over toothless ******** and hillbilly music. 

The guys who did my roof were professional, knew their stuff and didn't futz around or play grab ass. They were all business. 

Guess you'd rather pay 11k for a roof you could get done for well less than half? 

"A fool and his money are soon parted."


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

hoz49 said:


> Oh yeah, I caught his not so "subtleness" But I don't have to play his game do I? Besides, who said anything about "illegals"? I didn't check their papers as they were working for the general contractor ( who is white BTW, not that it matters). That's HIS responsibility.
> 
> In my area (Midwest) almost EVERY roofing crew working after the last hailstorm was Latino!
> 
> ...


I may have misread your original post but I thought you said it was a construction superintendent who was running a crew.
If he's an employee who also runs his own business than he is indeed a contractor, if he's an employee running a crew on the side he is not a contractor.
I assumed he was what I call a week end warrior rather than a contractor,
if that is indeed the case than neither him nor the crew he runs is properly insured, if they are insured at all.

Far as my post about illegals, I was not suggesting the crew that did your roof was, I know a lot of Hispanic construction workers who are not illegals.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

hoz49 said:


> Oh yeah, I caught his not so "subtleness" But I don't have to play his game do I? Besides, who said anything about "illegals"? I didn't check their papers as they were working for the general contractor ( who is white BTW, not that it matters). That's HIS responsibility.
> 
> In my area (Midwest) almost EVERY roofing crew working after the last hailstorm was Latino!
> 
> ...


 
Are you proud when you buy a television out of the back of a van on the street too?:huh:

If someone is that much cheaper, something along the line is not legal.

Most people say "I don't care, I saved money". If that makes you feel better then fine, but I imediately think CHEAP ARSE and HYPOCRITE :no:
I'm sure you make a fair wage and aren't taken advantage of.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

hoz49 said:


> Wound up with the MOR bid of $4300.00 from a construction superintendent who was running a crew of Mexican roofers *on the side*.


We call them tail-light roofers. Has nothing to do with the crew.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

I was told he was running the roofing crew through his business. I know the material was charged to his company. I really could care less. Insurance or not, contractor or not. The roof was done, on time and in good order with no problems. I've worked in construction since 73 so I know when a crew knows their **** and when they are a bunch of clowns.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

MJW said:


> Are you proud when you buy a television out of the back of a van on the street too?:huh:
> 
> If someone is that much cheaper, something along the line is not legal.
> 
> ...


Calling names now eh? There were no stolen TV's involved and your exaggeration shows you're full of ****. My roof is done and I didn't pay some old man who thought he had golden nails 11k to do it. 

Competition sets the pace and price in my book. You can take your opinion and stuff it where the sun don't shine.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

hoz49 said:


> I was told he was running the roofing crew through his business. I know the material was charged to his company. I really could care less. Insurance or not, contractor or not. The roof was done, on time and in good order with no problems. I've worked in construction since 73 so I know when a crew knows their **** and when they are a bunch of clowns.



I'm talking oranges and your talking apples.

I'm not trying to say the crew didn't know what they were doing,
I'm saying there's a high probability they were not operating legally.

I'll try an explain, when your working for someone else, you have a boss that you deal with at work, normally is the same boss every day.
When your self employed you have hundreds and hundreds of bosses,
if you hire me to install your roof, your my boss until I finish, the guy/gal next door hires me and they become my boss until I finish their roof, etc.

So, your boss calls you tomorrow and tells you he is now out sourcing the work you normally do to a sub crew, you learn through the grape vine that the sub crew is being ran by your old supervisor (on the side) and neither him or the crew he is working are certified in abatement or are licensed.
You tell all this to your boss and he say's, yeah, but I don't care if they are legal or not, I'll save 13.5% in cost of operations using them and they really know their stuff.

You just smile and say, OK boss, good luck Sir?
I doubt it, you'll probably be pretty upset.

Every time a home owner highers the (on the side) roofer, sider, painter, plumber, tinmen, carpenter, etc., they are doing to the legit contractor the exact same thing your boss did to you in the above scenario.

To be clearer, you do not have to pay top dollar (the highest bid) to get a legit contractor, you just need to find a local small operated (mom & pop) company to get the more realistic and acceptable price.


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## jmiller (Nov 19, 2010)

You only feel like you got your money's worth because it isn't leaking. Plenty of other storm chasers leave a trail of caulked flashings that leak a year later and yes, sometimes do cost the homeowner half as much as the new roof. 

Would you buy a new car without the option to take it back to the dealership?


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

Slyfox said:


> To be clearer, you do not have to pay top dollar (the highest bid) to get a legit contractor, you just need to find a local small operated (mom & pop) company to get the more realistic and acceptable price.


That's what I did Sherlock!

You assume too much. 

When I say "on the side" the guy's business is usually commercial. The hail storms came through and he diversified with a few roofing crews to pick up extra business. Again, whether they were "legal" or not is his business. My contract was with his company. 

In your scenario above I wouldn't get mad, I'd go into business for myself. Which is what I did in 1985. 

And the "small Mom and Pop" was the 11k bid! 

I'm no kid and I'm not new to the construction trades. I know the suppliers in town and I know prices. I can take off and I can work the numbers. Hell, I could have roofed it myself if I wanted to, but I gave up the heavy lifting years ago. I know when someone is trying to rip me off and when it's a good deal. 

I also hired the same guys to do two more roofs on my rental properties. 

You guys jumped on my example because I said they were a Mexican crew. You assumed I picked them up at Home Depot or something. I say BULL****E. 

*Where do any of you get off trying to belittle, besmirch and question my "citizenship" because I'm an educated consumer who knows the value of a dollar?*


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

jmiller said:


> You only feel like you got your money's worth because it isn't leaking. Plenty of other storm chasers leave a trail of caulked flashings that leak a year later and yes, sometimes do cost the homeowner half as much as the new roof.
> 
> Would you buy a new car without the option to take it back to the dealership?



"Fear of loss is a greater motivator than expectation of gain". 

One basic tenet of salesmanship.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

hoz49 said:


> That's what I did Sherlock!
> 
> You assume too much.
> 
> ...


The worse part about this "conversation", you really do know and really don't care.

Edited to add:
To be even more clear, you do not have to hire a non legit contractor in order to get the lowest price,
know what I mean holmes?


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## jmiller (Nov 19, 2010)

hoz49 said:


> "Fear of loss is a greater motivator than expectation of gain".
> 
> One basic tenet of salesmanship.


Us roofing contractors are in this thread to help homeowners decide which side of the line they want to place their chips.

You're telling them it's ok to go with the guy who doesn't usually roof, but sees a quick buck and will do it for much less. I'm not suggesting they go with white guys so they can feel patriotic, but that they should evaluate each company as much as the bottom line of the estimate. 

You've had the luxury of being in the trades 40 years. I'd like to think I might be able to as well, but the way things are going...


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Hoz, if you are actually in business and legit like you say, you would know how these scenarios we are speaking of work. Obviously you don't know and don't care because your own personal roof is done. Good luck with it.

Like I said, with that much of a price difference, something isn't right and you just contributed to what is wrong with this industry just for your own personal gain.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

I had no idea there was a cadre of contractors on this forum waiting to pounce on people who relay their own personal experience. 

I've seen this type of attack happen on here before though. 

This is a DIY forum isn't it? Most of these people want to save money and do the work themselves. That just about cuts out contractors doesn't it? 

You people act as if I turned down YOUR bid. Which, except for jmiller would be impossible. 

And what part of "check references" (in my OP) did you guys not understand?


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

jmiller said:


> You've had the luxury of being in the trades 40 years. I'd like to think I might be able to as well, but the way things are going...


It's always feast or famine. Save your money, I doubt you are working today, with 4 inches of snow on the ground. (If you are the HO should run you off.) 

Have hope, maybe another hail storm will come through next summer.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

I think this side-work or not side-work debate has run it's course, so if the original poster does not come back with his/her clarifications, please let it rest on the other issues brought up.

As a side note, we professionally licensed contractors volumteer out time giving home owners our best opinions and judgements based on their original question posed and most often are capable of steering them in a position of additional clarity on how to proceed ethically and legally.

The poster getting slammed on currently did originally seemingly post that the crew doing the work was doing it as a "Side-Job", which now supposedly has been clarified. That should suffice for now.

Ed


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## linuxrunner (Oct 18, 2010)

um... ok bit of side talk going on here. :huh:

Both company's quoted me for a 4000 sq ft roof, 

I have a third and company that will be coming out in a few days to give us one more quote, i'll let you know what they say. 

Guess i was a little surprised because the last roof we had done was only about 5,500 and that was for a 5000 sq/ft roof, although it was not a large slope and had no dormers also it was just a scrape off of the old shingles and reinstall of new so i guess it's not much of a comparison :laughing:


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

OldNBroken said:


> Linuxrunner, In your area it would not be surprising for that roof to run $375-450/sq. Not a difficult job but it is very involved and tedious with poor access.


That works out to around $350/sq. Not unreasonable for what must be done. 
If any one bid is considerably lower, make sure they are clear on what is being provided and compare the content to the others, not just the price.

our apologies for the temporary hijacking of the thread.


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## Lulimet (Jul 26, 2010)

That is a reasonable price for the amount of that needs to be done.


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## Superintendent (Oct 23, 2010)

Linuxrunner,

From what I can see and what I have read on your opening post, here is what you have.

You have the removal of four layers of roofing material. In Wisconsin, a second layer is allowed but no more. I have seen where roofers have placed a intermediary plywood or chipboard decking to get by this problem. There are some things that you come across in the roofing business that are surprising.

Anyway, with four layers, the roofing company does not even know what the situation really is in that amount of layers. I have seen one house that used the thicker shakes and it took 4-30 yard dumpsters to haul away the refuse. This cost $1200 alone for the waste. It was a comparably sized home and was only ONE layer.

As for the material, you have 40 square of decking, which is 125 4x8 sheets (with no waste), I would use the thinner material because you will not need the span rating of 1/2" cdx plywood. Normally you have the deck with 2" gaps that need to be covered. On one barn we just filled the gaps instead of decking the whole thing. Save a lot on material but took longer to do it. So let us just say 7/16" OSB. That comes to 125 x $6.48 = $810 + 5-10% for waste. 40 square of 30 year shingles @ say $87/square = $3480. Miscellaneous items like nails, edging, flashing, vents etc add in another $500. We come to a total for materials at say about $3980 add in $1000 for waste minimum we come to $4980 for materials and waste. Add in your areas permitting costs and the labor.

One thing I have noticed is that the dormer I can see has the concrete slate type siding. This has to be worked around carefully. They tend to break if you breathe on them wrong. Also dealing with the flashing there is a pain.

If I was bidding the project in my area, I would give approximately the same price as the first two.

(As for the other discussion)

There is a thing called equal under the law people. If the government enforces rules and regulations on businesses and people subvert the rules in this regards, how do you expect anyone to compete with the ones working on the side or the under the table operations?

To me, I would prefer to work under the old buyer beware and the common law ideals of contracts, but our government has stretched the businessman to the extreme in all their regs, so everyone has to follow them or no one should. Just my thoughts on that.


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## hoz49 (Nov 6, 2010)

What I was trying to say is every company has their own price. Some want an arm and a leg, some will work for less. In these economic times you should be able to pick and choose. Keep getting bids and check references. (I took 10 bids in my above example.)


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## whitco (Dec 17, 2010)

*dont hire a roofer on price alone*

Don’t hire based on price alone. All of us want a great deal, but like the old saying goes “you usually get what you pay for". It's ok to bargain hunt, just do a little research on the roofing materials used. The pricing, and some fair price ranges on the scope of work.

 Some roofing contractors will ask for less money just to win the bid. How do you think they are so much lower? These contractors will usually use inferior materials, shortchange surface preparation, and spend less time on the job which results in a problem for you down the road. This is how they are able to take the job, and still make a profit.

In your scenario Company A is at 14K and Company B is at 16K. Which is not a huge difference in pricing, but if another roofer came by and told you he could do it for 7K something is probably not right. If it sound too good to be true it usually is.

__________________
Whitco Roofing


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## hereslookingatU (Feb 8, 2010)

A couple of questions: 

1. Doe's your roof leak? 

2. If it doe's leak, is it down to the debri that has been allowed to accumulate in the valleys and gutters etc. as shown in your original pictures

The point is 'if it ain't broke why the hell fix it' and from the photo's the roof looks in really good condition, that is except for the debris that has been allowed to accumulate!

Going by the photographs the occupier at the time would have had problems with rain water entering the building somewhere!

If you do not have any rainwater ingress at this time it becomes a matter of keeping the roof line clear of debri etc. and you can either make it a DIY'er monthly habit to clear the roof with a long reach pole and adapters, or maybe make it either a once or twice a year job for a local and reputable contractor to come around and keep the roof clear. 

Regards


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