# 1840's house worth remodeling?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would try to double check the age of the house. This wall appears to be built in the 19 ths


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Basically it would end up being stripped down to the bones and rebuilt and from those pictures it looks like a close call to starting over. I'll list a few.
1. new roof
2. I didn't see one electrical wire or receptacles so complete wiring job.
3. Rules have changed so doubt any existing septic would be approved. 
4. Rough openings on windows are patchwork so suggest many other framing issues.

I could go on, but here may be the biggest problem. No bank will offer funds to finance a home owner DIY of this magnitude so the first $100,00 will need to come from someones pockets. Only after it becomes a real house would a bank agree to a mortgage.

To make it worse, it could be difficult obtaining insurance for a slow DIY rebuild.

Do they have lots of money?
Are there lots of friends and relatives who have the skills and time to make this work?

Start by pricing out a foundation up new home, much easier to build and much more valuable when done.

Bud


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Worth, is in the eyes of the beholder.

To me, my opinion.

I would gut it and remodel it.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Ron, although I also like fixing up things this house doesn't have a lot going for it and that is from what we can see.

Took a closer look and don't see a foundation, looks like it is sitting on posts.

Lots of work will be needed on the framing and none of it will likely be 3.5 in material, that adds to time and material costs. Little looks to be 16" on center, more work. 

Full electrical will be needed and probably full plumbing.

I don't even see any materials to be salvaged. Beyond hope, IMO.

Bud


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

To have been built in 1840 I think it has a whole lot going for it.
It really looks to be in good shape.

Look how level and straight it looks.

Reminds me of the old military barracks.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

ron45 said:


> To have been built in 1840 I think it has a whole lot going for it.
> It really looks to be in good shape.
> 
> Look how level and straight it looks.
> ...


 I agree, figure out what walls are bearing and gut everything else. The siding alone installed is worth the estimated value. Get a nail gun and add a 2x3s to all the exterior studs and plates.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sugabit was on the forum at 11:00 AM today and did not comment, so I won't either.

Bud


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Yes this house would need to be taken down to bare bones but also we need to keep in mind this is a young couple needing a house to start a family. What would we need to spend to start from scratch and put a new bare bones house there all ready for plumbing, electric, interior work etc.? Granted it doesn't look like much in some folks eyes compared to new construction but it's been doing well for 178 years and possibly the young couple aren't interested in new construction.


I will say for certain, a new construction or this gutted re-do make over will test the best of marriages. If they pull through this, and I hope for the best, we will have a winner.:thumbup:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

A young couple can just finish a few rooms to call home and improve the rest over time and budget.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Attempting to determine if some of the framing lumber was sawed with a Pit Saw, this attic picture was the best I could find. I suppose the slight arc could be determined by how the pit was set up and the saw operators.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

1840's? RUN FOREST, RUN!


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

I would first consult with an Structural Engineer to make sure the house was structurally sound. Than consult with an Architect that has experience rehabbing old homes and get some king of cost estimate from other homes that were restored. With the above info I would than consult with a realtor that also has dealings with the sale of older homes. 
Than compare the value of the restored home & the value of a new home.

Than what is the resale value of each ?


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm not from a part of the country where buildings are this old. But I think given the family story angle alone I'd go for it. 

It doesn't look like a huge house and looks fairly straight, foundation-wise. Get the outside buttoned up, and work their way through the inside. Hiring out what you can't do, or don't want to do (plumbing, electrical, septic, etc)


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

ClarenceBauer said:


> With the above info I would than consult with a realtor that also has dealings with the sale of older homes.
> Than compare the value of the restored home & the value of a new home.
> 
> Than what is the resale value of each ?


This is good advise...

The answer to the question all lies within the math.

If the house is located in a trendy inner city neighborhood then a remodel (if you do it right) could be a home run. 

If it's just another old house in small town america then likely not.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Sugabit, my opinion is: If you want to live there, rebuild. If you want to sell it, let it go as is.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

You have to look back in history and see the results of what happened to homes & land. I was born & raised in a county out side of Washington, DC.

The home was a very small 900 Sq / Ft total family members was 8.
The house as of this date still remains and is worth 26 times what was paid for it in 1938. The county has informed us that the value with the house removed is worth more than with the house on the site , keep in mine that the other property around it are taxed on current value of the existing structure. Yes it is up dated and the rent pays all expenses. I have also worked on homes that were purchased for $150,000.00 refurbished and brought up to date for another $200,000.00 and resold for $ 600,000.00.

Check the history on the existing property and record all the info and include it in the resale cost. I can state that I am aware of property that was sold for 
$ 1,000,000.00 and later sold for $ 13,000,000.00


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

NickTheGreat said:


> It doesn't look like a huge house and looks fairly straight, foundation-wise.


Nick, as I mentioned before, it doesn't appear to HAVE a foundation. Look at the next to last picture in that link and you can see a post and daylight under the back left corner.

Adding even a crawlspace would be back breaking and require some dollars.
Then full electrical (assuming they can DIY it), plus full plumbing, kitchen, bathroom, septic, well, driveway and landscaping, new roof, doors and windows, drywall trim, and rehabbing the framing will add up to big bucks.

Since no bank will touch them until it is 90% a house they will need cash in hand (or relatives pockets) to the tune of $50,000 and I bet more. Then all of this work will take new DIYers a couple of years. 

As mentioned, a tough way to get started for a new couple.

The only approach I see that might come to a happy ending would be a large family pulling manpower and resources together and blowing this out in a couple of months. Good friends and good neighbors could add up to a lifetime home.

I see Sugabit was here again still no comment. Speak to us!

Bud


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> Adding even a crawlspace would be back breaking and require some dollars.


Not to mention insane.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Cost wise it would depend if you want to restore it to the era it was originally built. This would cost some serious dollars. If you are wanting to just remodel to modern times it would cost much less than a historic restore. No mater what the foundation is, if it is the orignal foundation it has stood for a very long time. But if what foundation is there now has been modified then if it is poles that is another thing.

If it is in a historic district, you may not have a choice of how you want to restore it. Historic districts can be a real pain.

As far as restoring goes, the pictures below are of a home built in 1844. We literally had to jack the entire house up and replace all of the lower plates, foundation, framing and all. The house was in a historic district and it had to be brought back to historic specs. The owner had deep pockets.

From what I am seeing the materials in your house look to be in really good shape.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

BigJim said:


> From what I am seeing the materials in your house look to be in really good shape.


I agree if it is in a historic district then very expensive, but without more info from the op I would guess not, those areas usually pressure owners to maintain what is there.

As for the materials looking really good, I don't see it. The floor is the only thing that looks nice but I suspect there is no subfloor under it. Framing is terrible. Siding is toast. Rood needs to be replaced. and on and on. By the time that house is gutted you would have less in value standing than the cost to correct just the framing. From there on it is still a money pit that a young couple shouldn't tackle.

IMO, if there are adjacent property owners that would want the land, sell it and move on.

Bud


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Bud9051 said:


> I agree if it is in a historic district then very expensive, but without more info from the op I would guess not, those areas usually pressure owners to maintain what is there.
> 
> As for the materials looking really good, I don't see it. The floor is the only thing that looks nice but I suspect there is no subfloor under it. Framing is terrible. Siding is toast. Rood needs to be replaced. and on and on. By the time that house is gutted you would have less in value standing than the cost to correct just the framing. From there on it is still a money pit that a young couple shouldn't tackle.
> 
> ...


I do agree the house would maybe have to be gutted except for maybe the roof framing, floors and maybe the ceilings, but I still see good materials there. Maybe I am not seeing right, but I don't see any rot anywhere.


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## sugabit (Aug 13, 2018)

Yes, I read the answers, but I've been working & haven't had time to get on here to answer anyone. I wasn't ignoring anything. I appreciate everyone's help & advice. They would like to make the house look more modern, they aren't trying to restore it to its original state. They want to of course add a new roof, new plumbing, new electric, ect. No there is no subfloor, didn't have that back then I don't think. I did talk to one contractor that lives near by me & he said that it would cost about $30,000 to fix the house up, materials. Also her fiancé's father does plumbing & electric & carpentry & would help with some of it at no charge. Everyone I talked to said the wood in the house is in great shape, that some of it looked like "lollipop/loblolly pine" (if they were nameing it right). Also the house is in the country & the land in our area has sky rocketed due to everyone wanting to move to this area for great schools.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Having experienced help is a major benefit, especially if some of that help has deep pockets.

I've been involved in a few projects involving a gut job and rebuild and they all said at the end "never again". We have a thread *here* involving a significant rebuild, not as old but may give some insight.

Sounds like a good neighborhood and I'll note, the current shape is poor but shows no sign of (knock on wood) vandalism.

Can you confirm that there is no foundation?

I know I'm a long ways away, but I have done some building and renovating and see $30,000 as being optimistic even if just for materials. Very easy with this much exposed to do a good list of what is needed to make sure they aren't getting in too deep. Of course the $30K in materials would be more than double that if labor were hired.

Thanks for stopping back.

Bud


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

30K? If you could identify those details of this house that are truely historical and repro them with present day materials, labor, and building codes I'd bet 130K is closer to accurate.

Somethings just aren't everyday practical to do,
take me for example - wifie maintains me for sentimental value, not 'cause she's thinking it's possible to turn me into a young stud.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

It doesn't sound like a lot of people here started with nothing, found a shack and fixed it up using products that were out of style a few years back and used cupboards.
I have fixed and sold a few houses and none of them had the potential of this one.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

loblolly pine is a yellow pine, one of the strongest natural framing materials used today. If it is that old, it will be very hard. Back in those days they built with what ever trees were handy. One home I restored, built back in 1840, had the roof decked in black walnut, some boards were 30 inches wide, about a 5000 sq/ft house.

I would bet if you refinished those floors they would look sharp. From what I see, that house has had work done on it in modern times. If the boards on the ceilings are in good shape, I would also refinish them and reuse them. 

One thing that I see that is glaringly wrong is the plumbing pipes, they really need to be changed out. They are either lead or galvanized, neither of what is ok to keep. 

To me the house is well worth fixing up.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> loblolly pine is a yellow pine, one of the strongest natural framing materials used today. If it is that old, it will be very hard. Back in those days they built with what ever trees were handy. One home I restored, built back in 1840, had the roof decked in black walnut, some boards were 30 inches wide, about a 5000 sq/ft house.
> 
> I would bet if you refinished those floors they would look sharp. From what I see, that house has had work done on it in modern times. If the boards on the ceilings are in good shape, I would also refinish them and reuse them.
> 
> ...


 That house is sometime after they started building platform houses.
So this is 1930 or later.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The roof looks like it can be saved
https://www.rustbullet.com/projects/p-and-b-metal-roof


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## sugabit (Aug 13, 2018)

Thanks again everyone


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## romeojk27 (Jul 26, 2018)

Good luck with the project. The house looks great and it sounds like you and your family can handle it. Those kids are getting a great gift.


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Hey, it looks way do-able. This is a ~1810. Took 4 years.
bg


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

yardmullet said:


> Hey, it looks way do-able. This is a ~1810. Took 4 years.
> bg


That before picture is a lot like an 1822 my boys and I restored:


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

I think originally the house was like yours, then porch rotted off. We put a smaller whatever-they-are-called porch roof just covering the door, vs the entire front over the termite condos, er, bricks. Didn't want to deny them water.

Then there were the barns...
Went without a hitch, well, except for the truss falling on my neighbors bucket truck, the tornadoes, the flood. But wtf, I lost it all anyway since Ala div laws suck, like the old Sonny and Cher show 
bg


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## yardmullet (Jan 6, 2018)

Oh, BTW, you can get a sense of the *scale of the new barn if you compare it to the dinosaurs that were found one afternoon. Note the sheriff's car coming across the pasture.
*(Well its what it seemed like to me after going up and down those ladders for months.)


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