# 320Amp double lug meter - (2) 200amp panels



## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

What state are you in?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The services will need to be grouped. You could mount 2 disconnects at the pole for this. You would then run 4 wire feeders to each building. 

With the disconnect at the pole you could leave the breaker turned off until the house was ready for power.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

electures said:


> What state are you in?


 
electures - if that is a joke, then the answer is "anywhere but new jersey"

if it's not a joke, the answer is "texas". 

1texasguy


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> The services will need to be grouped. You could mount 2 disconnects at the pole for this. You would then run 4 wire feeders to each building.
> 
> With the disconnect at the pole you could leave the breaker turned off until the house was ready for power.


 
Jim, thanks.

Here is a photo showing the outgoing feed - similar in concept to what I am doing - ***not my picture***. The meter is mounted on my shop - my incoming feed is underground. One feed is going to the 200A main breaker panel in the shop through the back of the meter box via an 8" nipple, the other will go to the 200A main breaker panel at the house - underground about 75 feet away. My question is "do I need a disconnect between the meter and the house? I know it would be advantageous as I wouldn't have to have the POCO come back out to pull the meter so I could connect in the box when I am ready to make the run to the house, but is it required? And if anyone could point me to code, that would be beneficial - I am always up for education.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Read NEC Article 230.70 and 230.72.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Jim Port said:


> Read NEC Article 230.70 and 230.72.


 Jim, if the conductors are leaving the meter and going underground to the house, do you maintain that a disconnect is required at the meter?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

That is the way it is interpreted here. I set 2 4/0 cables here for a house and a future barn. The disco and a panel sit next to each other in the garage.

I also had one where the service needed to move and add a panel for an addition. Same thing, different jurisdiction. Two 4/0s out of meter into side by side panel and disco. The disco fed the old panel at the other end of the house (old service panel).


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Personally I would prefer a meter main. That said, I was am under the impression that service conductors outside the structure or underground do not require a disconnect or an OCPD until they enter the structure.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

What I did for the last one, was meter, disconnect on each side of the meter, then feed to each panel in the house.
Inspector happy, HO happy, Poco hapy, me happy with the pay!!!


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## electures (Dec 22, 2009)

1texasguy said:


> electures - if that is a joke, then the answer is "anywhere but new jersey"
> 
> if it's not a joke, the answer is "texas".
> 
> 1texasguy


Wow! I completely missed that one!:yes: I love the Great Police State of New Jersey! (NOT!).


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

This will get little trickier to deal with class 320 service ( you have to check the POCO for their specs on this one before you get the meter socket on this size )

There are few way you can do this is .,,

Choice *1

Have a 320/400 meter socket and have a load centre for your shop and have a disconnect switch next to it for the house when you bring it in later { you will have to use 4 conductor feeder to the hosue panel and you can not use the same size conductor as from meter to main breaker this will get you if not carefull }

Choice *2 

Have meter/main combo. This set up will have two main breakers right below the meter socket and have one breaker for your shop panel and second breaker to the house panel { just make sure you are aware that you will need 4 conductor for both panels } 

Choice *3 ( only if POCO appprove this load centre )

Have a 400 amp all in one panel which you will have one part is your load centre and second main breaker to the house.


Merci,
Marc


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

thanks to everyone for input.



frenchelectrican said:


> This will get little trickier to deal with class 320 service ( you have to check the POCO for their specs on this one before you get the meter socket on this size )
> 
> There are few way you can do this is .,,
> 
> ...


Question - why a 4 conductor feed to the house? And the bigger question that also shows my ignorance is what is the 4th one for and where does it connect? 

The photo above shows what appears to be normal (3 conductor) 200A supply lines from the meter. 

FYI - for those concerned, I will have my electrician do the hook-up - I am just doing the planning and getting the physical pieces in place at this time. I know my limitations.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Any panel after the service needs to be fed with 4 wires, 2 hots, an insulated neutral and a grounding conductor. The neutrals and grounds will be isolated in any panel that is not service equipment.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

1texasguy said:


> thanks to everyone for input.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To understand this better you have to know that there are _*service conductors*_ and *feeders*.
Service conductors are not protected by a breaker
Feeder are protected by breaker.
In your picture the wires leaving the meter base are unprotected wires and go somewhere to a Service panel the is Labeled and Listed as Service Equipment. You do not have to carry a ground with these wires.
Feeders are connected to a breaker in a service panel and you have to carry the ground along with the three conductors. If the feeders go to a detached structure that structure will also require ground rods.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

1texasguy said:


> thanks to everyone for input.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is my opinion that the service conductors leaving the meter and going underground to the house(three conductor) do not need a disconnect or OCPD until they reach the house at which point you would have a service disconnecting means and establish the grounding electrode system.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

a7ecorsair said:


> To understand this better you have to know that there are _*service conductors*_ and *feeders*.
> Service conductors are not protected by a breaker
> Feeder are protected by breaker.
> In your picture the wires leaving the meter base are unprotected wires and go somewhere to a Service panel the is Labeled and Listed as Service Equipment. You do not have to carry a ground with these wires.
> Feeders are connected to a breaker in a service panel and you have to carry the ground along with the three conductors. If the feeders go to a detached structure that structure will also require ground rods.


 
yes. and much thanks for the clarification on terminology.

here is the way I thought it would/should go:

service conductors from POCO to exterior meter on shop

3 wire feed from meter (this would be a service conductor) to interior main disconnect breaker panel in shop (backs up to the meter via 8" nipple) - grounding rod at the shop for the shop panel

3 wire feed from meter (this would be a service conductor) to interior main disconnect breaker panel in house which is a detached structure from the meter (75 foot underground run from meter to panel) - grounding rod at house for the house panel.

while it may be a good idea to add a disco between the meter and the house feed, most info I have read says it is likely not required. 

I am confused on the "4 wire" terminology. Is the 4th wire the CU wire I will run from the panel to the ground rod? If so, I am clear. ANd if so, my understanding is I will just do a ground rod at each structure and connect at the panel for that structure.




brric said:


> It is my opinion that the service conductors leaving the meter and going underground to the house(three conductor) do not need a disconnect or OCPD until they reach the house at which point you would have a service disconnecting means and establish the grounding electrode system.


 
yes, this was my thought also. Do you know if this would be a NEC allowance or is my local inspector going to make this call?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The 4th wire is a grounding conductor. It would go in the auxillary ground bar along with the conductor to the ground rods and the circuit grounding conductors.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> The 4th wire is a grounding conductor. It would go in the auxillary ground bar along with the conductor to the ground rods and the circuit grounding conductors.


 
exellent Jim. That helps me greatly. I have referred to it as 3 wire and a grounding wire - I guess that makes 4. You just helped me double my knowledge.  Thanks.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

1texasguy said:


> I am confused on the "4 wire" terminology. Is the 4th wire the CU wire I will run from the panel to the ground rod? If so, I am clear. ANd if so, my understanding is I will just do a ground rod at each structure and connect at the panel for that structure.


The copper wire that goes from your panel to the ground rod is called the Grounding Electrode Conductor and is not part of a required _4 wire feed_.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

a7ecorsair said:


> The copper wire that goes from your panel to the ground rod is called the Grounding Electrode Conductor and is not part of a required _4 wire feed_.


 
then I'm confused again - lol. you guys are too kind trying to explain this to me. I'll try to google some pictures......maybe done in crayon.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

There is no required four wire "feed" from the electrical meter. Those are service conductors.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

The internet can be a wonderful and frustrating thing at the same time while trying to explain such things. 


Again, if we go back to the pic. This is not my pic, but this is the meter box I am using. I believe this pic shows only 2 sets of 3 conductors. I was expecting I was going to be able to wire it as shown with each set of 3 conductors going to it's respective main breaker panel - one in the same building as the meter and one in a detached structure. Is this incorrect or does the 4 wire come into play. Note - this is not a subpanel arrangement but each panel gets it's own feed irrespective of the other due to the configuration of the 320A meter.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Three wires only from the meter can.


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## a7ecorsair (Jun 1, 2010)

brric said:


> There is no required four wire "feed" from the electrical meter. Those are service conductors.


brric, I didn't say anything about a 4 wire feed from the meter. The OP has used the term 4 wire feed and the CU wire from the panel to the ground rod.
I was only trying to clear up the difference between the GEC and the grounding conductor in a four wire feed.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

a7ecorsair said:


> brric, I didn't say anything about a 4 wire feed from the meter. The OP has used the term 4 wire feed and the CU wire from the panel to the ground rod.
> I was only trying to clear up the difference between the GEC and the grounding conductor in a four wire feed.


 Understood.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

brric said:


> There is no required four wire "feed" from the electrical meter. Those are service conductors.


 
gotcha and as I thought. So to clarify, you would only use a 4 wire on feeder lines.

So, if I run directly from the meter to the house, that would be a 3 wire as shown in the photo as it is still a service conductor. 

If I were to put a disconnect between the meter and the house, the line between the disco and the house is considered a feeder line with a 4 wire requirement. Is that correct?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

That is correct. No disco for house at the meter unless required by local jurisdictions.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks again,

Clarification needed. When running the "hots" as shown in the pic above, does it matter if one set goes to the set of terminals on the left and the other on the right........or is it ok or beneficial (or harmful) to have one go left and one go right?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Each pair of hot feeds must use a right and a left to ge 240volts.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks again brric,

That is what I thought and that it how I wired. I started doubting myself when looking at the pic above but it appears that they may have done it that way also.....as they should have.

You've been great help and patient -a class act - thank you.


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## 1texasguy (Jun 14, 2011)

Update -

320A meter installed, installed 200A panel in the shop, inspector green carded the install with a comment that this was one of the most professional installs he has seen, POCO ran underground service and I now have power with nothing catching fire and no deaths. 

Thanks to the many who helped me clarify and made input.......the time you took to respond is greatly appreciated. :thumbsup:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/electrical7.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/electrical8.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/electrical4.jpg/


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## cenfl (May 8, 2016)

Sorry to dig up an old thread here..

We are putting in same double lugged 320 meter base here in Florida, one 200 amp service panel stubbed right next to meter and another existing garage meter that is being fed directly from meter to underground riser to garage panel.

The usual inspector seems to be on vacation and I just got inspection which we failed as the inspector noted needs disconnects grouped and garage main panel to become sub panel. This would require me to put the 80' of current SER and rerun extra conductor for ground which is alot of work.

My electrician says since the feed is underground and never enters the building that we should be ok with the way we have it. Can anyone else clarify this currently with NEC. Inspector notes said code though he did not reference a section, and I don't want to get on his bad side by arguing. May just wait until other inspector gets back from vacation or should I just do it the way the inspector interprets it?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The disconnects do need to be grouped. You will need a disconnect next to the meter to feed the garage.

SER cannot be used underground.


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