# premix joint compound vs setting type



## housedocs

Actually you need to add water to either type of compound, the premix should be thinned with water to a proper working consistency, depending on what you are doing with it.

I use quick set for the first coat on butt joints and outside corners because of it sets harder than the premixed types. We also use it for prefilling any gaps in the sheets. Setting type compound also can be sanded and recoated within as little as 15 mins, so we also use it for small repair work or patching.

When you get into the premixed types of compounds there are 3 basic types. All-Purpose, Light, & Topping Mix.

The manufacturer's and the industry specs call for All-Purpose to be used for taping, light is used for subsequent fill & finish coats. Topping Mix is strictly for final finish & texture coats.

If you would specify what you're doing I can advise you as to the best product to use for your purposes.


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## ITE

Im finishing a basement wiht 1/2" drywall. so do you use both types on the same job? I have used the premix before but never tried to use the setting type. I noticed that there is a setting type that can be sanded easily and one that is supposed to set hard like plaster. any advantages to eithor one of these?

thanks


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## ProWallGuy

If you are a novice or newbie to floating, I would use the pre-mix. For me, I find it easier to use.
For just basic drywall, i would use pre-mix. I use the setting type for bigger holes and whatnot. 

But who am I, but just a paperhanger. Housedoc would know best.


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## ITE

Ive used the premixed a little before. Ive got the hang of it pretty much when it comes to applying it to the board. never used the setting type. I guess I should just break down and try it. the drying time is starting to talk to me and pull me in. 

thanks


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## rjordan392

House Doc,
Can you tell me why drywall manufacturers taper only two ends of the sheet? I do a good job when taping these seams and using all purpose drywall compound, but the joints that are not tapered come out terrible looking when light comes across these seams.


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## housedocs

When the board is first formed it's in a very long ribbon, like 1/4 mile, then it's cut to length per order. There is a tool out now, which does a wonderful job of creating a recessed edge on the butt joints. It's called the Butt Taper, this was dreamed up by a drywall finisher, imagine that, and is still nationally distributed thru Ford's drywall, I believe they are from NJ or somewhere on the east coast. Here's a link to the site where you can purchase the tool on line. For a diyer doing a large project this would be worth while I think & you could resell the tool on e-bay after you were finished. The tool does do a wonderful job and allows you to finish out the butt joints so they are just 6" wide.

Normally you will have to feather out the butts to 18"-24" wide to hide them.


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## ebbtideinteriors

*Add water to all compounds?*



housedocs said:


> Actually you need to add water to either type of compound, the premix should be thinned with water to a proper working consistency, depending on what you are doing with it.
> 
> I use quick set for the first coat on butt joints and outside corners because of it sets harder than the premixed types. We also use it for prefilling any gaps in the sheets. Setting type compound also can be sanded and recoated within as little as 15 mins, so we also use it for small repair work or patching.
> 
> When you get into the premixed types of compounds there are 3 basic types. All-Purpose, Light, & Topping Mix.
> 
> The manufacturer's and the industry specs call for All-Purpose to be used for taping, light is used for subsequent fill & finish coats. Topping Mix is strictly for final finish & texture coats.
> 
> If you would specify what you're doing I can advise you as to the best product to use for your purposes.


I own a drywall and interior consultation company. I never add water to my premix compound. Actually, if I am not mistaken, it says never to add water. The only time I mess with the consitency is when I am using an auto taper. And as far as most of the posts have gone in these forums, most finishers are telling the average joe to use durabond or a "setting compound" quick note to newbies make sure the sack mud you buy is the ez sand type. You will hate yourself knowing that the brown bag durabond is a *************** to sand as opposed to the easy sand stuff in the white bag.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

ebbtideinteriors said:


> I own a drywall and interior consultation company. I never add water to my premix compound. Actually, if I am not mistaken, it says never to add water. The only time I mess with the consitency is when I am using an auto taper. And as far as most of the posts have gone in these forums, most finishers are telling the average joe to use durabond or a "setting compound" quick note to newbies make sure the sack mud you buy is the ez sand type. You will hate yourself knowing that the brown bag durabond is a *************** to sand as opposed to the easy sand stuff in the white bag.


Dude, you just responded to a 3 year old thread.


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## uperrsc

*Dude*

But people look for info here all the time, so updating information is a good thing. Dude.


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## drewhart

on the butted joints it seems to help me if i cut the edge down slight on an angle with a knife before hanging the sheet. not much, mostly to remove the paper that sticks out slightly. durabond is sweet for the taping coat, and filling the large gaps if you didn't cut the board right. in fact i usually cut them a little bit small on purpose because i hate when they dont fit and i have use the rasp multiple times just to get it to fit. is this bad?


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## GrandmaStormy

*He's right!*

Hey Atlantic!

The dude is right - It's now 2009 and I'm reading this thread - educating myself! It's DIY time in my household, and I'm reading so much of this stuff my eyes are red-rimmed road maps!


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## gma2rjc

Perhaps it's time for the experts to do a thread on mudding and sanding drywall in the 'How-to' forum. With all of my knowledge on the subject, I probably wouldn't get through the first sentence, so it will have to be someone else :laughing:..:yes:..:whistling2:


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## Bob Mariani

Besides this thread had nothing but poor information until this revival. Good job. Pros would normally use setting for first and second coats, and premix for finishing. But never add to the premix.


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## fura-2

*I add, and I'm proud*

I'm no pro, but am doing quite a bit of drywall, including texture and knockdown, for my home remodel. In the interest of sharing breadth of experience on this (excellent) site, I'd like to mention that I always thin my final, topping coat of all-purpose premixed mud a bit before applying it and using a 12-14" knife for finishing. This seems to work very well for me, and leaves behind a very thin layer that dries about as fast as setting types. I do this in the mud tray, not the bucket, and a little goes a long way. I guess I like the feel of thinned stuff better than un-thinned premix for this final coat. I haven't used topping compound proper yet, so I can't say that this method is better. Also, I'm "down" with the use of the setting compounds for gap filling and embedding, and wish I'd switched to using it years ago -- the crack resistance alone makes it worth buying the separate bag!


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## AtlanticWBConst.

fura-2 said:


> I'm no pro, but am doing quite a bit of drywall, including texture and knockdown, for my home remodel. In the interest of sharing breadth of experience on this (excellent) site, I'd like to mention that I always thin my final, topping coat of all-purpose premixed mud a bit before applying it and using a 12-14" knife for finishing. This seems to work very well for me, and leaves behind a very thin layer that dries about as fast as setting types. I do this in the mud tray, not the bucket, and a little goes a long way. I guess I like the feel of thinned stuff better than un-thinned premix for this final coat. I haven't used topping compound proper yet, so I can't say that this method is better. Also, I'm "down" with the use of the setting compounds for gap filling and embedding, and wish I'd switched to using it years ago -- the crack resistance alone makes it worth buying the separate bag!


Dude, you just responded to an almost 4 year old thread. :wheelchair:


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## DIYminer

*Dude*



AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Dude, you just responded to an almost 4 year old thread. :wheelchair:


Good information is good information regardless of the time stamp. This thread was the first thing to come up in my search, and so far it has been the most helpful. Excellent thread... here's to another four years!


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## tjl5709

*Oldy but goody*

Not quite 4 years, but I found it as well in my search. Helpful info.


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## demandrew

And I just found it now. Long live the thread!

As a bumbling DIYer I've only ever used pre-mix. The long drying times kinda suck, but I usually have plenty of other jobs to do so adding another coat just becomes a daily chore and then I move on to other things while it dries. I might decide to branch out to the setting stuff but so far I don't mind the results I've achieved with pre-mix. I also am a big fan of the free bucket you get when you're all done!


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## AtlanticWBConst.

The thread that will not die......


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## Yeti

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> The thread that will not die......


Atlantic, do you have anything helpfull to add to this conversation, or just ****ty comments? Keep up the great info guys!


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## AtlanticWBConst.

Yeti said:


> Atlantic, do you have anything helpfull to add to this conversation, or just ****ty comments? .......


Umm.....it was meant as a Joke (humorous statement about the thread's 7-year longevity).

....seriously :huh: WTF? You really need to chill-out. 

...Slinging censored insults = over nothing - and at the drop of a hat. 

You have 49 posts over 5 years time, yet, you insult me, and demand that I be helpful on this site?


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## DangerMouse

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> You have 49 posts over 5 years time, yet, you insult me, and demand that I be helpful on this site?


Well sure! Isn't that why we pay you the BIG BUCKS here????

:laughing:

DM


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## ktkelly

To add something new to this ancient thread...


I always add a little liquid dish soap to pre-mix, as well as thinning it down with water at times.

Helps getting a nice smooth spread.


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## nvycrmn

okay, so I have been reading through some of these threads and found some really good info. However, I have been using the lightweight compound (premixed) for ALL of my work (and have been using the sticky mesh tape). I add a little water to the tray to help thin it out just a little as it seems like it is too thick without adding water. 

Now that I have read a TON of info, I think I am going to try my hand with paper tape instead of the mesh (finishing my basement). Can I still just use the lightweight compound or should I really get some of the setting for the first coat, and just use the lightweight for the rest (don't really want to waste 5 gallons of this stuff!)? 

Another thing, the person who finished part of my basement before I bought the house did a horrible taping job on the butt joints (did not feather it out very well so you can see where the seams are...by like 8"!) and I was wondering if there is a way to fix this without cutting massive chunks of 'rock out and re-taping.


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## digitalplumber

nvycrmn said:


> okay, so I have been reading through some of these threads and found some really good info. However, I have been using the lightweight compound (premixed) for ALL of my work (and have been using the sticky mesh tape). I add a little water to the tray to help thin it out just a little as it seems like it is too thick without adding water.
> 
> Now that I have read a TON of info, I think I am going to try my hand with paper tape instead of the mesh (finishing my basement). Can I still just use the lightweight compound or should I really get some of the setting for the first coat, and just use the lightweight for the rest (don't really want to waste 5 gallons of this stuff!)?
> 
> Another thing, the person who finished part of my basement before I bought the house did a horrible taping job on the butt joints (did not feather it out very well so you can see where the seams are...by like 8"!) and I was wondering if there is a way to fix this without cutting massive chunks of 'rock out and re-taping.


dampen the tape prior to application to mud.


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## nvycrmn

so can I just use the lightweight and be fine? Also, what do you think about the last part of my post? How do I fix noticeable seams?


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## ToolSeeker

Yes you can use the lightweight but the chance for cracking is greater. What makes it lighter also makes it weaker. Having said this I know people that use it all the time without problems.


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## ddawg16

nv....it helps to put your location in your profile....

You will hear some references to red top, green top...etc. On the west coast....the only color bucket I've seen is red dot....

I'm sort of liking the bag stuff that you mix....in my area it's 20 min, 40 min and 90 min.

I've got some 40 min....but I really have to work fast to get it all up before it sets.....this weekend I'm going to try 90 min....

I mix it right in the mud tray.....and I use mesh...I have not seen better results with paper....but that is me....

And I have had better results mixing it up a bit wetter...edges feather easier....it's messier....but I find that I have less sanding.


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## nvycrmn

profile updated...sorry bout that! lol. 

So if I do try a setting compound, can I still use the mesh that I already have a roll of or do I need to use something else?

What is the best way to fix cracked seams and how do I fix noticeable seams that were not mudded correctly? Whoever finished part of my basement before I bought the house did not feather it out well so you see a large "hump" over every joint (and the walls are textured and painted flat!!!)


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## mikegp

If they used regular compound you can remove it with a wet sponge. The paint on top of it might come off in the same way or you'll need to scrape it or sand it off.


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## demandrew

demandrew said:


> And I just found it now. Long live the thread!
> 
> As a bumbling DIYer I've only ever used pre-mix. The long drying times kinda suck, but I usually have plenty of other jobs to do so adding another coat just becomes a daily chore and then I move on to other things while it dries. I might decide to branch out to the setting stuff but so far I don't mind the results I've achieved with pre-mix. I also am a big fan of the free bucket you get when you're all done!


Well, this post is so old that I've had enough time to gain further experience and come back to disagree with/improve upon my original post! (above)

I'm no longer a bumbling DIYer. In the intervening years since my first post I've gained a great deal of drywall/taping experience and have switched up my game considerably.

I used to just buy round tubs of pre-mix, for convenience, ease, and because I was too afraid or uncertain of how to mix setting-type compound. I also didn't have a mixer which is ESSENTIAL in my opinion. You're not going to get the desired consistency mixing anything by hand.

I now use setting regularly, and like many here before me have said, I will use it across my butt joints, outside corners, and especially to fill larger holes and wide seems. I will normally use 90 mixed with cold water (in a 5 gallon pale) unless the job is really small and I know that I can get through a whole coat in less time. If there are large holes or gaps I will mix some durabond for a really hard finish. In my opinion, to use pre-mix in any of these situations will result in a very high chance of cracking down the road, with a very VERY high likelihood in your ceiling - I have the old projects to prove it!

Depending on the job, I will then use all-purpose or finishing pre-mix mud, of the sort that comes in the boxes. I was childish before with liking the bucket variety for the fact that you get a free bucket out of the deal. Now I buy box(es) and 5 gallon buckets. Take a box, squeeze it all out into a 5 gallon bucket. I usually add a sprinkling of water and mix with my mixer. (Mixer then rests inside another bucket filled full of water - your slop bucket, and keep another clean bucket on hand with clean water for further mixing) If you don't use it all, when you're done, add a thin layer of water at the top of the bucket, and leave covered with a lid, if you have one, or with your hawk. It won't keep forever, but it will last for at least a week or two. When you go to use it next, mix it up again, and you're off to the races! (I would still probably mix a fresh batch of final skim coat though, because you're old stuff might have a bit of gunk in it.) I tried taping my butt joints once and it was a disaster. Some prefer it, but I personally trust in the mesh tape for all flats and paper tape for the inside corners. I mix a really wet final skim coat that goes over like glass and sands real easy.

For your bulgy areas you can try to add more mud on top of and below the bulge (or either side, depending what direction your joints run) and feather things out. If it's really bumpy, where no amount of mud will help, short of feathering out like the whole wall, then you'll have to consider cutting out his old joints and re-doing them yourself. Either that or you say "good enough for the basement"

Hope this helped!


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## nvycrmn

I will try to take some photos and post them (do we need photobucket or can we just add them in?). The joints that look like crap are probably 8" wide so i would have to cut to the stud on either side of it? (if that is the case, this sucks cuz there's lots of them!). the joints run up and down (its the butt joints that look like crap). the other joints all look relatively ok. i am considering skim-coating the entire basement (this whole house has been textured...some with orange peel, some with sand!)...it wouldn't be so bad if those damn joints didn't look so bad. Like i said, i will try to get some photos and post them up for you to see...


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