# How much r-410 refrigerant do I need here



## civiltoatee (Oct 19, 2009)

I am in no way an expert, but just trying to clarify your question. When you say that the "R410 was evacuated", are you saying that the precharge in the outside unit is no longer there?


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## hvac_dude (Jan 14, 2011)

Yes...certainly so. There is nothing left and its emptied out on the compressor .:wink:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Nothing can be done, until a vacuum is placed on it, and then charged with Nitrogen if not brazed. No one can give you this info, because it is not the contractor's forum. Are you licensed to purchase Freon in your state?


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## hvac_dude (Jan 14, 2011)

Ummm.... first, I already know about the vacuum- anyone with half a brain can figure that and that wasnt the question. I believe I posted on the DIY forum not so-called 'contractor' forum to avoid know-it-all comments. 
Finding out the amount needed whether im charged for it or buying is the same. It is to arm myself with knowledge. You see knowledge is very powerful as it triggers change. And we know historically power never yields without a fight. The HVAC industry is changing...from laws to prices. Some embrace it and others resist it. Which are you?
I believe I will get that info eventually.


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## Rollie (Dec 13, 2010)

The amount for factory charge for 15 ft. should be listed somewhere on the condenser, Possibly inside the controls cover plate in ounces. I have a goodman 2.5 ton R410a heatpump and the recommended amount to add over 15ft. is (number of feet over 15 times .6 ounces) Note: the actual manufacturer of my unit is Amana which is part of goodman now.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

hvac_dude said:


> Ummm.... first, I already know about the vacuum- anyone with half a brain can figure that and that wasnt the question. I believe I posted on the DIY forum not so-called 'contractor' forum to avoid know-it-all comments.
> Finding out the amount needed whether im charged for it or buying is the same. It is to arm myself with knowledge. You see knowledge is very powerful as it triggers change. And we know historically power never yields without a fight. The HVAC industry is changing...from laws to prices. Some embrace it and others resist it. Which are you?
> I believe I will get that info eventually.


Actually no, because again, if you do not know what you are doing, you can either hurt yourself, or get in deep trouble with the authority that oversees the different code areas. No one is going to tell you how to do this on a DIY, is why you need to ask in the Contractor Forum. Plus unless you hold a license in HVAC, and able to purchase R-410 from the supply house, you will not get very far. Stuff like this, I leave for my guy who is licensed in our state as a HVAC tech, and holds a EPA license to purchase and recycle Freon products.

I just call him and say "Hey my system is not working", and he comes and fixes it, and I give him some money for his time. I do not try to do his job, is why I keep him in business and let him answer the questions that I may have if I am inquisitive.


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## Rollie (Dec 13, 2010)

Check out the spec sheet for your unit. You can find it at this web link:
http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related/Goodman GSZ13 Spec Sheet 11.10.pdf I believe you unit has a 124 oz charge. Check page 3.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

No EPA license required to purchase R410A. Its not a CFC, or HCFC refrigerant.


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## 3 legged dog (Dec 21, 2009)

hvac_dude said:


> Ummm.... first, I already know about the vacuum- anyone with half a brain can figure that and that wasnt the question. I believe I posted on the DIY forum not so-called 'contractor' forum to avoid know-it-all comments.
> Finding out the amount needed whether im charged for it or buying is the same. It is to arm myself with knowledge. You see knowledge is very powerful as it triggers change. And we know historically power never yields without a fight. The HVAC industry is changing...from laws to prices. Some embrace it and others resist it. Which are you?
> I believe I will get that info eventually.


 Just be careful. Pressures on 410 can be double that of r-22. Make sure you have quick connect hose or you could be badly burned.


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## Rollie (Dec 13, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Actually no, because again, if you do not know what you are doing, you can either hurt yourself, or get in deep trouble with the authority that oversees the different code areas. No one is going to tell you how to do this on a DIY, is why you need to ask in the Contractor Forum. Plus unless you hold a license in HVAC, and able to purchase R-410 from the supply house, you will not get very far. Stuff like this, I leave for my guy who is licensed in our state as a HVAC tech, and holds a EPA license to purchase and recycle Freon products.
> 
> I just call him and say "Hey my system is not working", and he comes and fixes it, and I give him some money for his time. I do not try to do his job, is why I keep him in business and let him answer the questions that I may have if I am inquisitive.


Thats what I did! I called a respected contractor to check my unit because it was making a loud vibrating noise and only heating with aux heat. I was told the compressor was gone and charged $85. I couldn't believe a 1.5 year old compressor was bad, so I being from a troubleshooting background did some research and testing of my own. Truned out to be a sticking reversing valve. I fixed it with an r410a compatable additive. The unit is working great and I saved myself hundreds of dollars in labor.


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## hvac_dude (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks guys!...Rollie, the info was in front of me all along :whistling2: duh! I hear you Beenthere..try telling that to half the contractors and you will feel like a GM manager in a teamsters union convention. 3 legged, yes, that pressure is very potent. Tested it and learned quick to respect it.

As for gregzoll, with quotes like these, one has to wonder if this thinking defeats the purpose of a DIY site. Imagine going to an auto place with that philosophy even just when you need to change a battery...we DIYers are trying to keep our ourselves in our houses, not handymen in business.



gregzoll said:


> I just call him and say "Hey my system is not working", and he comes and fixes it, and I give him some money for his time... keep him in business ....


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## HVAC_NW (Oct 15, 2007)

I don't know what you did to lose all the charge in the condensing unit, but if you already let any air into the condensing unit, you're screwed, because the R-410A lubricant is like alcohol and have very strong affinity for water. If you get it wet, no amount of vacuuming will get it out completely. 

It's like a cell phone. Get it wet and you're screwed. 

So unless you've got a charging scale (to re-add whatever the hell you did to the original charge), manifold gauges, oxyacetylene torch, vacuum pump, thermometers and knowledge on how to interpret the the pressure to temperature relationship, don't mess with it. 

No, you can't soft solder R-410A plumbing. You need to braze it.

So, go to the library and check out a book that shows you how to charge R-410A, and purchase all kinds of expensive necessary tools that you'll only use once, or just have someone else do it for you.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

hvac_dude said:


> Thanks guys!...Rollie, the info was in front of me all along :whistling2: duh! I hear you Beenthere..try telling that to half the contractors and you will feel like a GM manager in a teamsters union convention. 3 legged, yes, that pressure is very potent. Tested it and learned quick to respect it.
> 
> As for gregzoll, with quotes like these, one has to wonder if this thinking defeats the purpose of a DIY site. Imagine going to an auto place with that philosophy even just when you need to change a battery...we DIYers are trying to keep our ourselves in our houses, not handymen in business.


There are reasons like this that I leave things like this to the experts. If I had dealt with HVAC in the Navy maybe, but I didn't. I personally know my limitations.


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