# Is There a Flexible Grout for Porcelain Flooring



## BigJim

I am in the process of installing a porcelain floor (12"x12") in our kitchen. I had to take it all the way back down to the sub-floor as the underlayment (old particle board) was wet and swollen. The sub-flooring is red oak and so are the floor joists. I stiff legged each joist to remove any bounce there may have been. 

I had to rip 2 X 4s from 0 to whatever it took, to level the floor as it has some dips and waves in it. I have the 2 X 4s on 8" centers and will use 3/4" plywood as the underlayment. The subfloor will be screwed 6" on center around the perimeter and 8-10" in the field. I am using screws long enough to go through the underlayment and subfloor and feel this should unify the floor and hopefully take care of any bounce. 

My question is, is there a flexible grout made for ceramic or porcelain floor tiles, just in case there were a slight amount of give to the floor?


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## kbsparky

Urethane caulk might be one solution.


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## Big Bob

I'm very old school, many others will advise concrete backer board and /or a prep under-layment.... Off grade... not on good slab.. ... I would do my best to discuss other flooring options.... if options failed ..I WOULD RESPECTFULLY...pass on the project.. Knowledge gained from o'l time contractors experience (1936.).....

please consider latex additive to grout...

I sleep very good at night....

Follows will be many differing opinions:


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## BigJim

Big Bob said:


> I'm very old school, many others will advise concrete backer board and /or a prep under-layment.... Off grade... not on good slab.. ... I would do my best to discuss other flooring options.... if options failed ..I WOULD RESPECTFULLY...pass on the project.. Knowledge gained from o'l time contractors experience (1936.).....
> 
> please consider latex additive to grout...
> 
> I sleep very good at night....
> 
> Follows will be many differing opinions:


Big Bob, I am an ole time contractor also, I don't go back quite that far, but far enough though.

I failed to say that I was using Hardy Backerboard on top of the 3/4" plywood underlayment. I don't feel this floor will give but I just like to over do sometimes. The specs are saying 1 1/8" for stiffness and I will have 1 3/4" for subfloor and underlayment with the Hardy Backer. For the last 15 years of my career we restored older antique homes so I am out of touch with the newer stuff and new products are coming up all the time so I was just checking to see if there was a flexible grout on the market. I appreciate your response.


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## Bud Cline

> My question is, is there a flexible grout made for ceramic or porcelain floor tiles


No.


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## Guest

Yes there is such a grout. It's called Quartzlock from Starquartz.com
This stuff is a quartz crystal suspended in an acrylic urethane. It nearly as stain proof as epoxy, easier to use and has much better flexibility than a normal grout. I've heard nothing but good results out of it. It's used quite frequently on heated floors as well. I just put some in my kitchen. It's fairly easy to use and looks good when it's in. Not as easy to use as normal grout but easier than epoxy.


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## BigJim

poppameth said:


> Yes there is such a grout. It's called Quartzlock from Starquartz.com
> This stuff is a quartz crystal suspended in an acrylic urethane. It nearly as stain proof as epoxy, easier to use and has much better flexibility than a normal grout. I've heard nothing but good results out of it. It's used quite frequently on heated floors as well. I just put some in my kitchen. It's fairly easy to use and looks good when it's in. Not as easy to use as normal grout but easier than epoxy.


Thanks for this information, this sounds like what I am looking for. Do you have an idea of the cost on two 18 pound buckets? I checked out their website and there is no price list or distributor listing, just an 800 number and e-mail address.

I really appreciate all of you guys responses, thanks to all of you. Jim


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## Bud Cline

StarQuartz is proving to be a great product and they sometimes advertise themselves as a "flexible grout" but the truth is it isn't THAT flexible. StarQuart gets very hard and won't allow much movement but maybe slightly more than other traditional grouts. If you expect movement then other steps should be taken to insure a proper installation.

StarQuartz is what is also being labeled and sold as "SnapStone Flexible Grout" and I can assure you there can be cracking-grout issues with movement.

Please don't think StarQuartz is going to let you get away with a tile floor that moves.


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## BigJim

Bud Cline said:


> StarQuartz is proving to be a great product and they sometimes advertise themselves as a "flexible grout" but the truth is it isn't THAT flexible. StarQuart gets very hard and won't allow much movement but maybe slightly more than other traditional grouts. If you expect movement then other steps should be taken to insure a proper installation.
> 
> StarQuartz is what is also being labeled and sold as "SnapStone Flexible Grout" and I can assure you there can be cracking-grout issues with movement.
> 
> Please don't think StarQuartz is going to let you get away with a tile floor that moves.


Thanks Bud, I do appreciate the information, that does help me make a decision of which way I want to go. The floor is solid as superman's kneecaps but at my age there isn't many more things I will be able to do in my life. I have already had to take another floor up that went down the drain with the swollen particle board (which I wouldn't use for anything) and this is into my 4th week with the floor as I can't work for long periods. I don't want to have to take this floor back up and am trying to over kill just in case there is something that moves that I didn't plan for. Thanks again. Jim


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## Guest

What Bud says is completely true. QL is more flexible than normal grout but not by a great deal. All grout is meant to harden into a rigid material. If movement is going to be a huge issue is should be dealt with before the tile goes down. 

18LB containers of QL will probably run you anywhere from $150-$200 depending on if you are a contractor or DIY customer and where you get it. Any store that carries Dal-tile ceramics should be able to order QL from Dal-tile.


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## CMiller

*Snapstone Flexible Grout*

Has any one tried this product on a regular (not free floating) ceramic tile shower walls? I was told by the box store taht it works great for this because is it stain and mold resistant and easier to use than epoxey grout.


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## poppameth

Yes QuartzLock is fine in a shower. BUT, you should use the accelerator with it. This is an additive that speeds to cure time of the grout. It also cuts your working time drastically though, making it more like working with epoxy. If you don't use it I'd allow at least 2 weeks of curing before the shower it put into use. Getting too much moisture on this stuff too soon is the one downfall of it that I've seen. Epoxy chemically cures quicker than a urethane grout will.


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## CMiller

*Waiting the two weeks*

I think I would rather wait two weeks for this to cure than to run into trouble getting the excess grout (grout haze) off.


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## poppameth

On a side note, Quartzlock will leave a haze as well. But it's much easier to remove than the epoxy hazes. All you need is a citrus based cleaner (Krud Kutter is recommended) and a white Scotchbrite pad. This will take the haze right off.


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## detroitMi

yes,you can get it from any tile shop,just ask for it,they'll hook you up,lol


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## Moira Wilkinson

I have used the Schluter®-DITRA heat floor system. It is orange and looks like lego blocks. You can purchase to use with or without infloor heating and doesn't cause extra work. I tile and my husband does the cutting. I used in in my master bathroom and have not had any issues. I will use the same underlay in my last bathroom reno in the house as well because I do not have 1" understructure. Amount of subfloor is dependent on how wide joists are set apart. etc. It made adding heating cable so easy as I just pushed them into the spaces between the pegs. If you didn't run it right you just pull it up and do it again. Easy enough for a girl to do. Lay a skim of cement, push the mat into it. Push the cables in then tile. Added 1/4" to overall height.


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## Moira Wilkinson

Can I mix my own? With clear caulking? I will let you know how it works. Thanks.


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## JazMan

Hi Moira,



Moira said:


> Lay a skim of cement, push the mat into it.


You can't do that. What did you mean to say and use?

Jaz


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