# delta vs kohler vs moen vs .... opinions please



## COLDIRON

Delta


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## Binkstir

I like delta too. The only faucet you mentioned that I dislike is Price Pfister. Funny name, terrible faucet.


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## Bjamin

*Moen*

hands down, no contest!!

Moen is great because, if you experience a leaky cartridge, ANY hardware store carries a FREE replacement. Their quality surpasses delta and pfister- (whatever, silly name and owned by black and decker). Moen has been building quality products for a very long time.


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## oh'mike

Stay away from-Price Fister and American standard---------RUN AWAY!


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## Binkstir

lol, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Price Pfister is junk.


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## Alan

Bjamin said:


> hands down, no contest!!
> 
> Moen is great because, if you experience a leaky cartridge, ANY hardware store carries a FREE replacement. Their quality surpasses delta and pfister- (whatever, silly name and owned by black and decker). Moen has been building quality products for a very long time.


Not only that, but if you call 1800buymoen, they will give you free parts to replace your faulty ones. 

Another vote for moen here.


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## peyton

*Kohler?*

Thanks for the responses. Surprised that nobody has mentioned Kohler yet.

Peyton


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## FrankL

oh'mike said:


> Stay away from-Price Fister and American standard---------RUN AWAY!


American Standard toilets are pretty lousy. Moen's stuff is pretty good. 

Frank Lardino


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## jlc791

Obviously everyone's experience is different but we have a Price Fister in the kitchen and love it. No problems in at least five years.

My dad has a Moen in his kitchen and has had to completely replace the guts one in eight years and I don't recall it being easy to find the parts (and it certainly wasn't free).

Our lavatory faucet is Delta and it's been great. The tub is the original (1954) Elgin(?) which is fine although finding replacement parts is a little hard but I'm guessing that's more to do with age than manufacturer.


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## Tudy

Same thing.
Bad Moen kitchen faucet. Fixed twice.
8 yr old Price Pfister faucet with no problems. :huh:


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## RobbL

The spout of my 6 year old Delta faucet in my tub just snapped off one day when my wife bumped it. One could argue that it's poor quality, but I called their 800 number and they shipped me a new one right away for FREE. I wasn't on the phone for more than a half hour in total. I was expecting for it to be extremely painful and somewhat expensive, but it was just the opposite.


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## Alan

I'd like to correlate the quality of your moen faucets to where you are buying them from. . . Home depot/lowes/hardware store models are a builder's grade line. Your plumber has a professional grade faucet that will probably hold up better. 

Just sayin'. . .


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## secutanudu

Alan said:


> I'd like to correlate the quality of your moen faucets to where you are buying them from. . . Home depot/lowes/hardware store models are a builder's grade line. Your plumber has a professional grade faucet that will probably hold up better.
> 
> Just sayin'. . .


Exactly what I was going to say. Get your faucets at a real plumbing supply house instead of a big box store...the names are the same (delta/moen) but the quality is not. I just bought a new delta shower valve/trim kit from my local supply house and the quality is outstanding.


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## jjn

*Contractor quality vs Big Box Stores*

I emailed Delta to ask them if their quality of their products sold at the big box store were of lessor quality then those sold be contractors/plumbers and this is what they emailed me back.




'Thanks for writing!​ The product you order from any local Lowes or Home Depot will be the same product that your contractor sell you. They are made of the same material and are no lesser of a quality.​ Please write back if you have any questions or need further assistance. 

Best Regards, 

Collin
Delta Customer Service

We are interested in your feedback regarding your email experience. Please click the following link to complete our online customer satisfaction survey: http://research.affina.com/snaponline/surveylogin.asp?k=125970062758​


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## Work4living

Hi,

Guess I should chirp in here. Delta lied to you!!! No big surprise, what were you expecting them to say well of course they are cheaper.....

Being a Master Plumber, Working in several countries and states.....I prefer Moen...... Their cartridges are the same as existed 25 years ago......Delta has had 6 cartridge changes....Discontinued trim styles, and can't seem to keep finishes the same shade in the same year....

Kohler, Hurts to say this.....Used to love eat, sleep, and breathe Kohler....They were the industry standard! Now the industry joke, Plastic trims, parts, and major problems. Funny how products aren't even made in the USA anymore. However if you do get into their high end ceramic faucet lines then you are at high quality with very high prices.

Just for the record, I shop at Lowes, Home Depot, Menaards. Their faucets are quite different. Tub and shower trims are Plated plastic....Not Plated brass, or even plated steel......PLASTIC, that is how you make a faucet 50-100.00 cheaper than your plumber can sell you.....Even funnier the faucets have the same model numbers....


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## COLDIRON

I thought they were cheaper because the plumber didn't have a chance to mark it up 50-100 because I purchased it myself rather than him picking it up and adding his plumber's fee. Mark up I know all about it.
Say what you want a model number is a model number. We weren't all born this age.


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## FrankL

Alan said:


> I'd like to correlate the quality of your moen faucets to where you are buying them from. . . Home depot/lowes/hardware store models are a builder's grade line. Your plumber has a professional grade faucet that will probably hold up better.
> 
> Just sayin'. . .


I am not in the industry but this is the impression I have gotten. I am sure people here are going to disagree but there are builder's grade and better stuff. 

Frank Lardino


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## COLDIRON

Frankl I totally agree with you there are builders grade and better stuff almost in anything but it comes with a cost. A model number and part number is the same, when you change model model numbers and part numbers the prices also change.

If I buy a Delta model # 000-abc from plumbing supply then go to HD or L's and purchase the same model #000 -abc it's the exact same part.

Now here's the other side If I go to the plumbing supply and buy a Delta 000-adc then go to HD or L's and buy a Delta 000-abc. It's different notice the letter change. There are subtle differences but the numbers are different also. Ever try to go into a plumbing supply house as a diy layman, try it sometime , it's very intimidating.


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## the_man

COLDIRON said:


> Frankl I totally agree with you there are builders grade and better stuff almost in anything but it comes with a cost. A model number and part number is the same, when you change model model numbers and part numbers the prices also change.
> 
> If I buy a Delta model # 000-abc from plumbing supply then go to HD or L's and purchase the same model #000 -abc it's the exact same part.
> 
> Now here's the other side If I go to the plumbing supply and buy a Delta 000-adc then go to HD or L's and buy a Delta 000-abc. It's different notice the letter change. There are subtle differences but the numbers are different also. Ever try to go into a plumbing supply house as a diy layman, try it sometime , it's very intimidating.


i worked at Lowes for awhile, model #'s of faucets and stuff are slightly different even from other HI stores. The reason I came up with is so that they don't have to honor the price matching policies that all of them have. But at the same time you can get the good quality of a Moen or Delta by special ordering from the catalog, but it'll double or triple the cost of the item. That is the stuff us plumbers get, but normally we get it at a discount from our suppliers and charge the customer list to make our profit


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## Jim F

Work4living said:


> Delta has had 6 cartridge changes....Discontinued trim styles, and can't seem to keep finishes the same shade in the same year..


This was my experience recently. I needed to return the Delta Lewiston faucet 8" faucet for a 4". The two models of 4" Lewiston faucets were sold out on clearance and were not being resupplied. I wound up buying the closest matching Moen sink faucet I could find. The funny thing I have noticed is that the popup drain that came with the Moen does not sit flush to the sink hole so there is always a little water around the rim of the drain. I don't know if that is a flaw with the sink or the drain.


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## red54truck

*Moen free replacement*

The free replacement from Moen is only anything made 1996 and later, you must have your receipt.


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## AlbacoreShuffle

COLDIRON said:


> I thought they were cheaper because the plumber didn't have a chance to mark it up 50-100 because I purchased it myself rather than him picking it up and adding his plumber's fee. Mark up I know all about it.
> Say what you want a model number is a model number. We weren't all born this age.


I beg to differ !
All you have to do is buy the same model numbers from a box store and a wholesale plumbing house.
Put both units on a scale and weigh them.
The box store sells you chrome plated plastic, and the wholesaler is selling you real metal/brass.
The difference will amaze you.


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## NitrNate

jjn said:


> I emailed Delta to ask them if their quality of their products sold at the big box store were of lessor quality then those sold be contractors/plumbers and this is what they emailed me back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Thanks for writing!​ The product you order from any local Lowes or Home Depot will be the same product that your contractor sell you. They are made of the same material and are no lesser of a quality.​ Please write back if you have any questions or need further assistance.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Collin
> Delta Customer Service
> 
> We are interested in your feedback regarding your email experience. Please click the following link to complete our online customer satisfaction survey: http://research.affina.com/snaponline/surveylogin.asp?k=125970062758​


No offense, but it sounds like a standard response written by someone from India. Typical grammar blunders made by Indians. I wouldn't buy that response, no way no how. Ask a plumber, not some Indian customer service rep who has no clue.


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## TarheelTerp

NitroNate said:


> No offense, but... Ask a plumber..


Here's the lesson:
"The product *you order from* any local Lowes or Home Depot..."

This artfully avoids the real question being asked about the crapola already in stock.


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## plummen

lloydb said:


> lol, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Price Pfister is junk.


Delta in,quality out..........
Didnt they used to have a commercial something like that? :laughing:
Around here we arent allowed to install the 3 handle faucets,been atleast 10 yrs now im thinking. :wink:
We have to install anti scald shower faucets,normally meaning single handle.
Go MOEN! :thumbsup:


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## ben's plumbing

wow i can't believe the hype over faucets....Iam a delta man 30+ yrs...1st they like all others have had there problems..2nd...they do have lifetime parts online for all to order..FREE...3rd there is builder grade ..comes with plastic parts and pop up....none of my plumbing supply house faucets has plastic anything.... no 3-handle faucets from supply house for tub and shower only single control for code purposes....


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## ddawg16

Ok....so where does one find a plumbing house to buy said equipment?


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## ben's plumbing

ddawg16 said:


> Ok....so where does one find a plumbing house to buy said equipment?


 most of the supply houses will only sale to licensed plumbers, and contractors.....sorry if not a plumber stuck with lowes or home depot or hardware stores....


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## ddawg16

ben's plumbing said:


> most of the supply houses will only sale to licensed plumbers, and contractors.....sorry if not a plumber stuck with lowes or home depot or hardware stores....


Sounds like discrimination......where is the ACLU when you need it? I wonder of Glora Allred would take my case?


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## ben's plumbing

worth a shot.....make the attorneys rich...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Joe Dirt

Check hardware stores with real plumbing sections. Godwin Hardware here in GR sells the real stuff, I know, I just did this whole investigation testing the box store theory and yes, there are differences. I'm not a plumber obviously, and they have no problem selling to anyone.

As for the letter, it is artfully crafted to cover their azzes.

"The product you order from any local Lowes or Home Depot will be the same product that your contractor sell you. They are made of the same material and are no lesser of a quality."

Lowe's: Builder grade faucets. Bought by builder? Builder = contractor. Thus, contractor is selling builders grade if they buy it at a box store. They're not lying, but they're not expanding to tell the whole story. They're only answering exactly what you asked, not what you really wanted to know.


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## timcam

I have always been told this advice:

Delta for sink faucets, Moen for shower valves, Kohler for toilets.

Although American Standards toilet line has gotten a lot better with their power flush technology.


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## germanshepherd

*contractor grade vs home improvement store*

I normally do not reply to old posts but see that some have resurrected this so will chime in. I actually had a plumber at my house last night to fix a bad leak and also install a kitchen faucet, which I could have done myself but he billed by the half hour and had 20 minutes left so put it in for me quick. I asked him the same question, is there a difference from what he sells and what I buy at home dept etc. he said absolutely not.. and he made a good point. If you were Delta, moen etc would you put your name on crap where the majority of your faucets are sold? No way..bad business. They sell more faucets through Lowes, HD etc than via plumbers and contractors. Their reputation would suffer by making junk for the home improvement sector.
That said, you can can get very good heavy quality faucets via your plumber but look at the expensive ones at Lowes etc...they are built like tanks. The average faucets are plastic and lightweight for several reasons.. less metal and lead to come in contact with water..the finishes, while not metal, are more resilient to tarnisng, rusting, corroding etc... that is why they have lifetime warranty on finish etc. 
bottom line is even my plumber, who could sell me the same thing for more money told me they are the same quality. He also told me they dont want customers knowing their secrets...


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## Joe Dirt

My eyes must have deceived me then. It must have just been very lightweight plastic colored brass in the comparable faucets I was looking at. Who knew!


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## plummen

The most obvious differance youre going to see between the lav faucet you buy at menards and the one i can buy at ferguson is the drain/pop up assembly on the supply house version is normally metal.
Most supply houses are set up for supplying faucets for heavier commercial use,it normally wont make any differance in a residential application as long as you buy a decent name brand


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## COLDIRON

I hear what everybody is saying but reality is when you new a set of faucet's you need them so just go to the big box store and get one with a good name: Delta.
Plumbing supply houses are good for plumbers but if your not a plumber and go in there be prepared to be laughed at picked on goggled at and made a total fool if you don't know the terminology/ lingo.

A model number is a model number weather you buy it at H. D. , Ls or a plumbing supply.
there may be slight differences in the parts that go with it but it's no big deal.
So what if you have a plastic drain piece most of the drains go into PVC anyway.
Time to get ripped up. 
I'm talking strictly residential here in DIY.


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## nvrfinished

This was an interesting topic to read. I'm not a plumber but I've done enough plumbing in my own homes to recognize a cheap faucet disguising itself as a high quality one. I became disheartened with all the brands mentioned above when shopping for a kitchen faucet. 

My wife and I wanted a good quality faucet for our kitchen remodel but didn't want to pay $800 or more for the expensive boutique brands. We couldn't find a faucet in HD, Lowes, or other home improvement centers that wasn't made mostly out of plastic trim and parts. In fact, you can see where the finish wears off these faucets from being touched by customers.

Fortunately we found the perfect faucet for us when looking for counter tops. It's a Rugby RS F3. I think they are fairly new in the faucet market. Almost the entire faucet is made of 304 stainless and it has a ceramic disc cartridge. And it's heavy! It cost us just under $300 and is built like a tank. We've had it for 2 years now and it looks brand new still. And this is with So Cal hard water. I don't think they make tub or shower faucets yet, but hell, I'm still impressed with this thing!


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## TheEplumber

I get my supplies from Habitat For Humanity Resale Store.... toilets are $40

Why is a 1 year old thread resurrected? Let it die...:surrender:


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## beenthere

Thread restored and reopened.


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## TiaJitsu

Well, I'm new to all this. we just bought our house about 6 months ago. And i just had the displeasure of dealing with Moen for the first time. Our shower temp selection handle completely broke off with part of the moen cartridge stuck in it. We managed to get that out so we could find a part number, bought the part for $35, and the cartridge puller for 30. So $70 bucks when all was said and done, we could have bought a whole new shower kit for that, i discovered later. Got home and couldn't use the puller bc the part it threads on to was broken off. We managed to twist it once with the plastic piece the part came with, which took 2 of us about 25 minutes. It still wouldn't come out, it was hopelessly stuck and we had no way of pulling on it, twisting wasn't doing anything but breaking the plastic. I finally thought to use a couple of self tapping screws and screw them in to the plastic of the cartridge to give us something to pull on which helped considerably, no way it'd have come out without that. It still took 3 of us another 45 minutes to get it out. The seals were totally stuck and ripped on the way out. 
I had a little hope when the employee at home Depot told me that moen had a lifetime warranty, and since my moen kitchen faucet has been leaking like a sieve, I figured I'd give them a call. They first informed me that we weren't covered by their warranty because we aren't the original buyers, and that the parts for my sink would be another $46. And they could get them to me in 2 weeks! So I asked if the new parts we were buying and had recently bought would be covered by that awesome lifetime warranty? Nope, because we didn't buy the original assembly in the first place, these are just considered replacement parts and "you'll always have to pay to replace the parts that break" this house was just built in 2005 and I've had 2 moen parts go out so far. When we remodel, I'm not going for moen, that's for sure.


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## plummen

Was it a plastic or brass cartridge?
Once you remove the c-clip that holds the cartridge in put the puller on there and see if you can get the outer shell of cartridge to spin.
Then lock down on whats left of the brass pull out where handle goes with a pair of vise grips and give it a yank to see if the cartridge will come out.
If the cartridge comes out problem solved,If not move on to plan b.
If the center comes out of cartridge leaving the shell get a piece of 1/4" copper about an 1" long and stick it in where the stem came out.
Then screw a 1/2" pipe tap into the shell of cartridge,as it bottems out against the piece of tubing in will push the shell out.
Make sure to clean the valve out really good and lube the new cartridge before reinstalling.
No brand of faucet has a perfect record,**** happens sometimes as they say.
As far as warrantee parts I still have a moen rep I deal with that sends me free parts anytime I need them.


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## TiaJitsu

It was a plastic cartridge and there was no metal anywhere to grab on to because it was broken off. but we did eventually get it out with the self tapers to pull on. anyway, Moen has a chance with me yet, i complained and they're sending me the sink parts free and giving me 15% off my next order


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## plummen

Usually the plastic versions don't get stuck,unless it was a cheap non moen cartridge.


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## Bob Sanders

Bjamin said:


> hands down, no contest!!
> 
> Moen is great because, if you experience a leaky cartridge, ANY hardware store carries a FREE replacement. Their quality surpasses delta and pfister- (whatever, silly name and owned by black and decker). Moen has been building quality products for a very long time.


It's no different for delta

Oh wow... just noticed... 4 year old thread.


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## Timdan03

I thought this was an entertaining read....

Because this is a "DIY chat room" I assume that most people reading this will be purchasing and installing the faucets themselves. With that said I have purchased (at Lowes/Menards/HD) and installed 3 bathroom faucets, 2 shower/tub faucets and 2 kitchen faucets. Here are my opinions.....

The first faucet was a Pfister, I didn't care for the first one however it was a rental home so I went for the cheapest. It did feel cheap, however no leaks or issues in the past 8 years. 

The second Pfister was only purchased because it was THE ONLY oil rubbed bronze wide spread sink faucet in town. No issues in the past 2 years.

The third sink faucet and matching shower set was a moen. I accidentally threw out the sink stopper and they sent me a new one free of charge with no questions asked. I do have an issue with the shower set. The screws that were provided to screw the escutcheon on to the actual brass diverter did not thread correctly. I stripped both screws trying to get them on and had to use pliers to back them out. They also sent me two new screws free of charge, unfortunately the same exact thing happened! I have now given up and my escutcheon plate is just being held on by the shower handle. Not too happy!

We recently replaced our kitchen faucet with a delta pull out single spout and handle and we love it. My mom also loved it and went out and bought herself one like ours, except she bought a moen and had me install it. I noticed a huge difference in quality between the two, the moen feels very plasticy while our delta feels solid and made of metal. Also the counter weight on the Delta is brass while the counterweight on her moen is plastic (not much weight to it). Also our Delta easily "sucks" back into its home while the Moen doesn't seem to go back in as smoothly and you almost have to push it back together each time (probably to do with the counterweight).

With all that said we just went out and bought a Delta sink and shower/tub set for our new bathroom we are adding in the basement.


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