# Ants uninterested in Terro: alternative bait?



## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

What's the best next bait to use when one's ants aren't interested in Terro (Borax)?

Eight years ago someone suggested Indoxacarb (I bought Advion Ant Gel), and it worked great. But this time the ants are uninterested in it too!

I have two two alternate boxes of bait using Fipronil which I haven't tried yet: Combat Source Kill Max" and "Maxforce Professional Insect Control Roach Killer Bait Gel".

I'm in Berkeley, California.

Wow my ants are nuts. Last month I got some under my car's hood, on the street. Eight years ago they committed suicide in big piles in the corners of my fridge. Now they're swarming under the part of my Frigidaire Freezer that doesn't get cold.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Depending on the season, ants may want a protein or carbohydrate bait. If they're not taking one, try the other.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

If you're interested, search Pesticide Resistance in California. We have such great Agriculture in the State, but it comes with a cost. University of California is a wonderful resource for insect ( and gardening info) I'd give you a link but my WiFi is hinky in cloudy weather.

Got it - Ants start on page 37.

*California's worst garden insect pests and how to manage them*
https://ucanr.edu › sites › camg2011 › files
PDF
University of _California_ Statewide IPM ... _Insects_. • Bee removal. • Budworm. • Cabbage worm. • Codling moth. • Earwigs ... pest _resistant_ species ...

More in depth info -






Ants Management Guidelines--UC IPM


UC home and landscape guidelines for control of Ants.



ipm.ucanr.edu





Isn't there a Warrior saying about knowing your enemy?

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. ... *If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.*” Sun Tzu 😊


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Rescue ant traps have protein and carbs. I would give those a try.









Baits - Rescue


Let insects do the dirty work by setting their last meal before them.




www.rescue.com


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Roll your own—mix up some borax with peanut butter and honey. Will get the ants that like fat/protein and the ants that like sugar.


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

Thank you very much, everyone, this info is priceless!

@Stick Shift
I didn't know about the protein vs. carbohydrate difference. Knowing that opened the door to much productive googling (now I feel silly for thinking of the different poisons instead of the baits they're in). Including helping me find recommendations for each kind (product pages don't seem to mention which kind they are).

I'll get some protein bait.

@Nik333
That info is interesting, thank you!

@ZTMAN and @huesmann
The dual bait strategy sounds cool, thanks!


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Howdy @coyote2 got an update?


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

Thanks for asking, Dave!

I ordered something 4 days ago that hasn't arrived yet: "Invict Blitz" based upon a recommendation somewhere, maybe at this site, having come to the conclusion that they're Argentine ants and I need to switch to Protein bait.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Man...Ants are not just ants......there must be 1000's of varieties (maybe little overstatement).

I have very small ones just outside in the summer....I threw everything from Walmart at them and they did not give a damn.

Then I found fipronal (Comes in Taurus SC...... available, but expensive at DIY Pest Control). For my ants that did the trick.....but unless you are an etomologist, I think it's a case of trial and error.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Apparently fipronil is a "protein ant" bait.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Man...Ants are not just ants......there must be 1000's of varieties (maybe little overstatement).
> 
> I have very small ones just outside in the summer....I threw everything from Walmart at them and they did not give a damn.
> 
> Then I found fipronal (Comes in Taurus SC...... available, but expensive at DIY Pest Control). For my ants that did the trick.....but unless you are an etomologist, I think it's a case of trial and error.


There's LOTS of ant species, that much we can heartily concur on!

Having done battle, I can tell you that close observation and willingness to (diabolically) experiment will help in ant control.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

huesmann said:


> Apparently fipronil is a "protein ant" bait.


It's a little confusing because it kills fleas by being under the skin of pets.

Fipronil is a broad use insecticide that belongs to the phenylpyrazole chemical family. Fipronil is used to control *ants, beetles, cockroaches, fleas, ticks, termites, mole crickets, thrips, rootworms, weevils*, and other insects.

*Fipronil General Fact Sheet - National Pesticide Information ...*


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

Wow, my ants show no interest in the protein bait ("Invict Blitz") that site recommended. 

So I just ordered a combination bait ("Maxforce Complete") which that site recommended, and also ordered the dual bait which Ztman recommended.

In the meantime, I'll try the two alternates I mentioned in my OP that I have on hand. Maybe they were good recommendations. I'm starting to feel like I've got super-ants.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

@coyote2 - Did you see this link above? ID the ants & scroll down to baits. These are entomologists and Agriculture is worth 50 billion in California.






Ants Management Guidelines--UC IPM


UC home and landscape guidelines for control of Ants.



ipm.ucanr.edu


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

Nik333 said:


> @coyote2 - Did you see this link above? ID the ants & scroll down to baits. These are entomologists and Agriculture is worth 50 billion in California.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Nick, I did miss that link. But even after getting out my magnifying glass just now, I can't tell which ones I have.

Update:

I just deployed some "Maxforce Professional Insect Control Roach Killer Bait Gel" and they aren't uninterested in it, they're so interested in it they're climbing inside beads of it and dying. NONE of them survive to go tell others it's even there. So way too effective to be effective.

New update: They aren't interested in the "Combat Source Kill Max" either. The don't climb inside it like the Maxforce, but they did walk on it then leave, and none returned.

New New update: Four hours later they have started to feed on the "Combat Source Kill Max" in modest numbers!


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

coyote2 said:


> NONE of them survive to go tell others it's even there. So way too effective to be effective.


That's like Ebola virus. I kills too quickly for it to passed on much.


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

coyote2 said:


> New New update: Four hours later they have started to feed on the "Combat Source Kill Max" in modest numbers!


After four more hours (ten hours after application) they were feeding in significant numbers. In the morning however, it's back to light numbers. Maybe it will take more time, or maybe I'll be glad I ordered a couple new alternatives.

On the plus side, they're gone from pretty much everywhere...except they're still swarming under the part of my Frigidaire Freezer (which is right next to the bait) that doesn't get cold.

A couple months ago, a couple hundred feet away (so I guess a different colony) where my car is parked on the street, for a couple weeks ants moved into the dashboard of my car. Other than Hawaii I hadn't seen ants live in cars. I also haven't seen spiders live in/on cars before...except it's common here in Berkeley, California, where I keep a can of insect spray so webs don't always adorn the outside.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Berkeley has always been different.😄


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

huesmann said:


> Roll your own—mix up some borax with peanut butter and honey. Will get the ants that like fat/protein and the ants that like sugar.


I'm about to order some borax powder to try this too now that I've got some time.

Question: Would I heat the peanut butter so it mixes extremely well with the honey and borax?


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

coyote2 said:


> After four more hours (ten hours after application) they were feeding in significant numbers. In the morning however, it's back to light numbers. Maybe it will take more time, or maybe I'll be glad I ordered a couple new alternatives.
> 
> On the plus side, they're gone from pretty much everywhere...except they're still swarming under the part of my Frigidaire Freezer (which is right next to the bait) that doesn't get cold.


Now, about 27 hours after application of the "Combat Source Kill Max", none are feeding on it. But they're still swarming a foot away under the Freezer door. Some dead ants litter the area around the bait. I think it was some combination of not interesting enough, and too effective..


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I haven't read the entire thread but wanted to mention,from experience. if ants are feeding and you spook them as they scurry away they spray the trail to warn new arrivals. i had a couple of good feeding stations go vacant when i accidentally got too close.

Also, all of the dead ants do little good as it is the queen you want to kill.

Bud


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

Bud9051 said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but wanted to mention,from experience. if ants are feeding and you spook them as they scurry away they spray the trail to warn new arrivals. i had a couple of good feeding stations go vacant when i accidentally got too close.


Thank you very much Bud for teaching me that! I have now deployed a new feeding station in a place where I am far far less likely to spook them.

Wow, this thread has been a priceless education for me!

Edit:
The new feeding station was deployed 16 hours ago and has attracted zero attention.

One factor could be that there are few remaining ants (mostly under the freezer door, and far fewer there too). Dead ants are all over my apartment. I have no idea if the main colony had been affected, but I guess not because the feeding numbers were never huge.

I imagine maybe the freezer door has become a satellite colony. I'm perplexed by why some remain; do these little guys learn to not eat what killed the rest?


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## coyote2 (Nov 27, 2021)

I've had zero ants for 12 hours now, 3 days from the initial application of the "Combat Source Kill Max".

I'm surprised that that seemed to take 2.5 days. After just two days, light numbers remained (particularly under the freezer door), but they were no longer energetic. They died in their tracks all over my apartment during those days. Maybe some were just hardier or less hungry for the bait or something?

I never saw feeding get *very* heavy, so I'm surprised, and I wonder if it has taken care of the main colony. I'll check back in if they come back within, or if they don't come back in, a couple weeks.

Edit: I just noticed that though I saw no ants before I went to bed last night, new dead ants appear on surfaces overnight. So I'm hopeful that they returned from the colony, meaning the poison did reach the colony!


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