# Water Filled Hole in Basement?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Don't know what it was but it is a problem now. Even if you didn't have a hole there the water is to close to the floor. Pump out the water, and see what you have there and then see how fast it refills with water.


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Ya, Will go get a small pump tomorrow and try and pump it out...

It seems to be a dirt bottom, maybe 1.5-2 feet deep...

I don't see any holes in the sides or bottom (Sides are concrete), so not sure how the water is getting there unless it's seeping up...


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Nortron said:


> Ya, Will go get a small pump tomorrow and try and pump it out...
> 
> It seems to be a dirt bottom, maybe 1.5-2 feet deep...
> 
> I don't see any holes in the sides or bottom (Sides are concrete), so not sure how the water is getting there unless it's seeping up...


 Your perimeter drain on the outside should be beside the footing so the water should be 6 to 8" below the floor. 

You can figure the gallons you have in this box and time the pump at so many gal per hr. to see if you are just pumping this water or are you pumping surrounding water too.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*industry std pump would be 1/3rd hp automatic submersible gould/zoeller,,, just in case - 1 gal = 231 cu " OR .13368 cu',,, wtr could be from ambient water table OR could be from a false wtr table,,, difficult to source but, from either source,needs to be managed*


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

So I purchased one of those stupid drill pumps, just to get the water out of the hole, and spent a good chunk of time pumping it out last night... Here's what I've learned so far;

In the back at the bottom, there is metal along each wall, right at ground level (Assuming what I'm seeing is actually ground level) almost like a flap... I'm able to move the one side out a bit, but I don't see anything behind it...

The top of the water had a green and purple film on it...

This morning, there was 2-3 inch's more water in the hole again, so it's coming in from somewhere, But it's the middle of Winter here, Everything outside is frozen...

Thanks for the help so far everyone...


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Could be an old sump pit.


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

joed said:


> Could be an old sump pit.


Thats what I'm starting to think, but I have yet to determine where the water is actually coming in from as I don't see any holes, pipes, etc...

My goal now is to get a better pump, get it as dry as possible, and determine what the bottom of this thing is, if it's cement, dirt, etc...

My ultimate goal in this whole renovation was too;

1) Repair foundation wall as it's deteriorating
2) Install an internal drain tile system along all exterior walls, leading to a sump pit I was going to dig and install.

My ultimate plan was to have the Sump pit at the other and of the house, but now I'm wondering if I should possibly just dig this hole deeper and use it.. Assuming I can get the drain pipes through the concrete to drain into it...

Thanks,


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*its not frozen to the depth of this hole tho,,, even if you have 6' of frost, there's still wtr-permeable soil underneath the frostline*


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

How deep is it and is it a dirt bottom?


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Nortron said:


> Everything outside is frozen...
> 
> ..


It's not frozen under your slab.
I would bet that if you leave it alone it will wind up back where it was when you first discovered it. It is most likely the water table in your area, not a leak.
When the surrounding ground thaws it may go down. 
What water issue to you have in your basement? I'm thinking this hole isn't the cause of the issue, just a symptom.


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Missouri Bound said:


> It's not frozen under your slab.
> I would bet that if you leave it alone it will wind up back where it was when you first discovered it. It is most likely the water table in your area, not a leak.
> When the surrounding ground thaws it may go down.
> What water issue to you have in your basement? I'm thinking this hole isn't the cause of the issue, just a symptom.


Hello,

You are 100% correct, this isn't the cause of my problem, I know the cause... But I discovered this while tearing out the laundry room...

I've emptied the hole 4 times now, and within a day it's full again...

Posting more pics in a minute...


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Hello,

Okay, so I got a better pump now, and I've been able to drain it almost completely now... I've attempted to "Clean" the bottom of it. It's an Odd bottom though.. As you can see in the Pics, there's a Blue and white, very uneven bottom... There is also portions of what seem to be cement mixed into it all. The blue and white portions are soft, I can break it apart with a screw driver...Along the back right at the bottom, it looks and feels to be wood...

Each side has a "Flap" which is metal. The left side, I'm able to bend it out some, but there's nothing behind it... I still don't see any "Pipes" or man-made holes in the sides or bottom.. there are 2 small holes on the right side, but they look to be broken cement... So I'm still a little confused on where the water is coming from... 

If it was an old Sump pit, wouldn't there be some type of drain tile / pipe running into it then?

Any more thoughts?


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Nealtw said:


> How deep is it and is it a dirt bottom?


It's 21 Inch's Deep, and about 30Inch X 25Inch wide...

As for the bottom, My post a few mins ago talks about the bottom, with Pics...


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Nortron said:


> Hello,
> I've emptied the hole 4 times now, and within a day it's full again...
> Posting more pics in a minute...


Does it overflow into the basement?
Clearly it is acting like a sump. You have a couple of choices.
You can make it a sump. Put a pump in it and be done with it.
With the slow rate you have it shouldn't be an issue.
Or you can fill it with concrete. But that water will have to go somewhere and it may just be into your basement.
Holes in a basement floor will fill with water if the water table is high enough.
That's why sump pumps were used to make those spaces more useable.
How old is your home?


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Missouri Bound said:


> Does it overflow into the basement?
> Clearly it is acting like a sump. You have a couple of choices.
> You can make it a sump. Put a pump in it and be done with it.
> With the slow rate you have it shouldn't be an issue.
> Or you can fill it with concrete. But that water will have to go somewhere and it may just be into your basement.


Hello,

Since I've owned the house (6 months), no it has not overflowed, BUT there are signs in the room that it has in the past (Water marks on the walls, etc.)

Ultimately, my plan was to install an interior drain system, and have all that drain into a pit I was going to dig out at the other end of the house... I could "Recycle" this pit into that, assuming I can find a way to get the drain pipes through the sides... the cement around this pit seems pretty thick...


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

The drains around the sides are a good idea.
But you say there is evidence or previous flooding. Any chance you could tell if it is when that pit over flowed or is the water coming from somewhere else?
If the overflowing pit was the cause of the problem then the solution is pretty simple. If it's coming in from the walls or even the perimeter of the floor and migrating to the pit then you have a different issue to deal with.
When was it built...if you know?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Hello,

The house is 72 Years old...

The reason for my basement renovation is multiple leaks from the Cinder block walls. So my plan is to remove all finishing, insulation, everything down to the cinder block walls... I'm then going to repair the mortar, parge the entire thing. Then I'm going to get the jackhammer in, break up the cement floor along the walls to install the drain pipes. Then will install dimple board on the walls, in-case the walls leak again in the future, it will direct that water down into the new drains. Then direct all that into a Sump pit somewhere... 

Considering this hole is only 21 Inch's deep though, I'm not sure that's deep enough for a proper sump pit...

I'm almost sure this pit has overflowed in the past though because of the water marks on the walls and doors...


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Nealtw said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BamCDB28oCc
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABsk_4zrlbM
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Rw21qBOeY


Are those Video's You??? I've watched all those like 5 times each now! :biggrin2:


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Nortron said:


> I'm almost sure this pit has overflowed in the past though because of the water marks on the walls and doors...


Just wait for one of those storms where you get 2 inches of rain over a day or two.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Nortron said:


> Are those Video's You??? I've watched all those like 5 times each now! :biggrin2:


 No, he is in Ontario. 

I see you have a good plan already with the drain tile and wall drape.
Add to that drilling the blocks to let the water out. 



This guy explains how to drill the hole and where.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Nortron said:


> Hello,
> 
> The house is 72 Years old...
> 
> .


That explains why no sump pit.
Sump pumps didn't start appearing until the 50's..and rare at that.
Your plan is perfect. You can use your pit as your sump pit. Don't let the shallowness bother you. You can get a pump large enough to handle it.
Of course if you are going to some concrete work anyway you can certainly make that pit adaptable for a pre-made pit. Considering the work you are already doing that shouldn't be a big deal. You are on the right track.


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Missouri Bound said:


> That explains why no sump pit.
> Sump pumps didn't start appearing until the 50's..and rare at that.
> Your plan is perfect. You can use your pit as your sump pit. Don't let the shallowness bother you. You can get a pump large enough to handle it.
> Of course if you are going to some concrete work anyway you can certainly make that pit adaptable for a pre-made pit. Considering the work you are already doing that shouldn't be a big deal. You are on the right track.


Hello,

Okay, that all makes sense, but I still have a few unanswered questions that I suppose doesn't change anything, just is peaking my curiosity.. 

1) If the bottom is fairly solid, and there are no obvious drains running into it, then where is the water coming from?

2) What is the Blue and White substance on the bottom? Is that just 70+ years of water entering and draining?

3) If sump pumps only came into the picture 50 years ago, I'm sure this hole wasn't added after it was built, so then what was it's initial purpose 70+ years ago? Is it literally to release water pressure on the basement slab?

I'm going to get the shop vac out tonight to "Clean" out the bottom better, and hopefully get a better view of things even more..

Thanks,


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Nortron said:


> Hello,
> 
> 3) If sump pumps only came into the picture 50 years ago, I'm sure this hole wasn't added after it was built, so then what was it's initial purpose 70+ years ago? Is it literally to release water pressure on the basement slab?
> 
> Thanks,


There are so many possibilities.
Without knowing the history of your home there is no way of knowing.
For it to be there, it could have been storage for canned goods.
It could have been remains of a coal chute. Maybe a heating system was there at one time. Is your basement original to the home or was it added? 
How far is that hole underground in relation to the soil outside?
If you dug around your foundation to the same depth, would you find water?
Any chance there is plumbing below that hole? Could it have been for access at one time? It would really suck if you tried to make it deeper and found a sewer pipe. As far as releasing the pressure....another possibility..
Pressure does affect concrete floors. Many years ago when I was in construction we were called in to look at a concrete basement floor on the Chain of Lakes.
When the water came up...his floor came up.


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## Nortron (Oct 17, 2019)

Hello,

I'm 80% sure there isn't any pipes under it, I had all my sewer lines checked and marked out and it's no where near this hole.. this hole is on the outside corner of the house... I'm pretty sure the basement is original and not added later on...

I would guess the hole is about 8ish feet below soil level... so I'm sure if I was to dig from the outside down to that level I would reach some water...

So, considering I have yet to find pipes, etc. Yet it keeps filling up with water, where ever this water is coming from must be under some pressure though right? If it's seeping up, it would need to be under pressure to push up the hole right? Or am I thinking to deep into this whole thing now? lol

Thanks for all your help and advice!


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Unless that pit is sealed tight ground water will seep up and seek it's own level.
At 8 feet below grade it's would be very likely the water table is there.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

*1" chisel bits are faster & neater,,, note no holes in sump - we drill out 3/4" holes in btm AND up 8" on sides so below-pipe wtr can enter sump,,, looks as if demonstration only allows in wtr from pipe - that's a no-no
surround your sump w/filter cloth & clean #57 stone
that's a cheap sump/cover - apron/vest quality
buy zoro on eBay - child resistant radon lids too
i don't think this guy does this work for a living
don't know of any municipality that allows sump discharges*


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