# 240v to subpanel with 4x 120v circuits



## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

How many wires are in that cord? What gauge is the cord? What is the ground wire connected to? From the looks of the plug, it's a 6-30P, which is used on straight 240V appliances. What is this setup going to be used for?


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## HouseHelper (Mar 20, 2007)

You CANNOT use the green wire as a neutral. You MUST use a 4-wire cord and receptacle that has two hots (black-red), a neutral (white), and a ground (green-bare). The feed to the receptacle must also be 4-wire.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

HH is completely correct. 

You MUST have a 120/240v circuit, or a straight 120v circuit to power that panel. DO NOT use it on a straight 240v circuit as it is wired now!

As it stands, that whole thing is dangerous and SHOULD NOT be used!!!!!


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> HH is completely correct.
> 
> You MUST have a 120/240v circuit, or a straight 120v circuit to power that panel. DO NOT use it on a straight 240v circuit as it is wired now!
> 
> As it stands, that whole thing is dangerous and SHOULD NOT be used!!!!!


But, it's for the band, man. Big gig tonight.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

jerryh3 said:


> But, it's for the band, man. Big gig tonight.


:laughing:
Well that makes all the difference. That and sanding the floor, right? :laughing: :no:


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> :laughing:
> Well that makes all the difference. That and sanding the floor, right? :laughing: :no:


Hell no. I tie right into the main lugs with alligator clips for a floor sander.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

HouseHelper said:


> You CANNOT use the green wire as a neutral. You MUST use a 4-wire cord and receptacle that has two hots (black-red), a neutral (white), and a ground (green-bare). The feed to the receptacle must also be 4-wire.



so you are saying I need to put in a 4 wire 240v cord to the breaker and use 120/240v receptacles to make this work? 



jerryh3 said:


> How many wires are in that cord? What gauge is the cord? What is the ground wire connected to? From the looks of the plug, it's a 6-30P, which is used on straight 240V appliances. What is this setup going to be used for?


3 wire in that cord. ground is connected to the breaker box metal surface (body unit)

setup used to plug in an 240v outlet that can power up 120v applicances such as power tools, industrial lamps and a microwave all producing at least 5000 to 6000 watts at once 

which is why i came up with 240v and split in 4 120v circuits

please help me out on a better solution to get this done right.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

anyone?


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

synstealth said:


> so you are saying I need to put in a 4 wire 240v cord to the breaker and use 120/240v receptacles to make this work?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. Let's start from scratch. You can't make 120V outlets from a 240V outlet. You can, however, make them from a 240/120 outlet. For this you'll need a four wire cord with a four wire plug/receptacle. L1/L2/N/G. L1 and L2 to the bus two bus bars which you have correct. The neutral wire will connect to an isolated bar in the sub panel. The ground will connect to a bar which is bonded to the sub panel. The way you have it set up right now, the receptacles are not grounded and the ground wire at the receptacle is acting as the neutral. No bueno.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> Ok. Let's start from scratch. You can't make 120V outlets from a 240V outlet. You can, however, make them from a 240/120 outlet. For this you'll need a four wire cord with a four wire plug/receptacle. L1/L2/N/G. L1 and L2 to the bus two bus bars which you have correct. The neutral wire will connect to an isolated bar in the sub panel. The ground will connect to a bar which is bonded to the sub panel. The way you have it set up right now, the receptacles are not grounded and the ground wire at the receptacle is acting as the neutral. No bueno.



what happens if the 240v(3wire) input to panel COMES from an 240v OUTLET (receptacle) which is why I made the plug so i can just plug it in... 

the panel is supposed to be portable, I want a 240v plug where I can just plug it in and use... what can I do about this issue?

suggestions?


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

synstealth said:


> what happens if the 240v(3wire) input to panel COMES from an 240v OUTLET (receptacle) which is why I made the plug so i can just plug it in...
> 
> the panel is supposed to be portable, I want a 240v plug where I can just plug it in and use... what can I do about this issue?
> 
> suggestions?


Do what the others have suggested and use a 4-wire cord. A dryer or range cord should be readily available in 4-wire.

The way it is now may work, but it is not correct and could be quite dangerous depending on how the receptacle that you plug into is wired. Also, judging by the white cable going to the receptacles on the board, I'm guessing that is 14-2, so you need to use 15 A breakers, not 20 A.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Do what the others have suggested and use a 4-wire cord. A dryer or range cord should be readily available in 4-wire.
> 
> The way it is now may work, but it is not correct and could be quite dangerous depending on how the receptacle that you plug into is wired. Also, judging by the white cable going to the receptacles on the board, I'm guessing that is 14-2, so you need to use 15 A breakers, not 20 A.



the 240v plug is 3 prong looks like this: (-.-) is there a 4 wire for this plug?



4000watts on a 120v circuit (knowing that one receptacle can support only one 1000w app) so I built 4 circuits to run them all at once.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

synstealth said:


> the 240v plug is 3 prong looks like this: (-.-) is there a 4 wire for this plug?
> 
> can I add a ground wire along with the 3 wire 240v? as an single shielded ground wire so it can act as 4th wire (same gauge of course) instead of replacing 3 wire with an 4 wire?


No, there is not. That is a straight 240 plug. You could just use a dryer cord/receptacle if 30A is sufficient.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

synstealth said:


> the 240v plug is 3 prong looks like this: (-.-) is there a 4 wire for this plug?


NO. 

That is a 3-wire straight 240v plug. You need a 4-wire cord AND plug AND circuit. You need a neutral along with the two hots and ground.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> NO.
> 
> That is a 3-wire straight 240v plug. You need a 4-wire cord AND plug AND circuit. You need a neutral along with the two hots and ground.



sorry if I seem stupid, I like to be absoultely sure and know what is going on.

basically I just need to replace the 3wire with a 4wire feed to the panel and problem is solved? 

or is there more to it that I need to do/replace??


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

synstealth said:


> sorry if I seem stupid, I like to be absoultely sure and know what is going on.
> 
> basically I just need to replace the 3wire with a 4wire feed to the panel and problem is solved?
> 
> or is there more to it that I need to do/replace??


Sort of. What are you going to plug this in to?


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> Sort of. What are you going to plug this in to?



I plan on plugging in 6 of 120v 1000 watt lamps in the panel that I built which would plug into an 240v outlet (-.-) on the wall.

it seems like the wall outlet must be replaced to 4prong??


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Let me read this right you have 30 amp *240* volt recepale like this ??










If that the case then you can not able get 120 volt out of this one for safety issue 

you will need a true 120/240 volt recetpale










the 14-30R is the legit way you can have both 120 and 240 volt circuits out of this one and this is the safest way.

Merci,Marc


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

6000 watts on a 15A 240v circuit??? Do you realize right off the bat this is 25 amps?

Have you done ANY homework at all on this? 
This is a prime example of knowing just enough to be dangerous.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> 6000 watts on a 15A 240v circuit??? Do you realize right off the bat this is 25 amps?
> 
> Have you done ANY homework at all on this?
> This is a prime example of knowing just enough to be dangerous.


this is why I had 4 circuits. one per receptacle 

is there a relay I could use on this?


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

synstealth said:


> this is why I had 4 circuits. one per receptacle
> 
> is there a relay I could use on this?


 
Nope ya can't even make a relay for it the whole key issue is the total wattage of luminaires you have there it will allready overload the 15 amp circuit no question asked you need a legit 120/240 volt *30* amp circuit.

I know couple of members here I am pretty sure one way or other we are famuair with band luminaire set up and they can draw insane power if not carefull.

so very simple answer do it right first time or you will faced ticked off peoples when the band light do go out due overloading circuits 

Merci,Marc


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

The only way you could possibly use that same outlet and be safe is to make everything 240volts only. This means the outlets on your panel need to be 240 volt, and your lights need to be 240 volt, along with 240 plugs and extension cords. This is to prevent anyone plugging anything 120 volt into this panel. 

Honestly to change everything over to 240 volts (provided you can find the 240 volt bulbs for your lights, which you probably also need to change the sockets on) is not worth it. Are there any other outlets available that you can plug into like the 30amp dryer outlet (NEMA 14-30) frenchelectrician posted?

Where are you finding this outlet at? Is this on a stage somewhere or in someone's house? I am assuming this must be near a window intended for use with a window air conditioner?

And for the record, the plug end the op has on that cord is a NEMA 6-15; not the 6-30 like frenchelectrician posted. Check out the standard NEMA configurations here: http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

To the OP, you should be looking for an outlet that looks like one in the 125/250 volt column; those would be the only safe outlet to connect this panel to.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

ok guys! I have made some upgrades here..

let me know if theres anything wrong I am doing here.


breaker panel runs off orange 10/3 to 14-30 receptacle (dryer plug) goes to the panel I built that everyone says I needed 4 wire for. so here I have removed and hooked up this. 

and I replaced all of the 15A receptacles with a 20A ones. let me know if I am doing this correct.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

one of the 6 receptacles I am going to add:

I know there is 4 circuits there. I plan to use two circuits to run two receptacles while the other two circuits will have just one receptacles.

anyways the picture shows I am using 14/2 wire which is just an demo of how I plan to hook this thing up.

I am not going to use the 14/2 I am going to use the 12/2 (yellow coated) for this project. sound correct??


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Yes. You are going to need the ground bus bar. I can't tell from the picture, but if that's a bonding screw(a screw that goes through the bar and screws in the box) in the neutral bar, you'll need to remove that.


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## synstealth (Nov 1, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> Yes. You are going to need the ground bus bar. I can't tell from the picture, but if that's a bonding screw(a screw that goes through the bar and screws in the box) in the neutral bar, you'll need to remove that.


no the screw is not bonded from neutral to box. its has plastic box that holds down the neutral bar with two sets of screw seperated (not connected/bonded) from the neutral bus bar.


yes I need grounding bus bar for sure. where can i find that? homedepot?


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

synstealth said:


> no the screw is not bonded from neutral to box. its has plastic box that holds down the neutral bar with two sets of screw seperated (not connected/bonded) from the neutral bus bar.
> 
> 
> yes I need grounding bus bar for sure. where can i find that? homedepot?


Yes. HD or Lowes. should carry it. The panel usually has the model number of the ground bar somewhere on the information label. Just cut off the ring terminal and pigtail a piece of copper to reach it.


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## 300zx (May 24, 2009)

jerryh3 said:


> Yes. HD or Lowes. should carry it. The panel usually has the model number of the ground bar somewhere on the information label. Just cut off the ring terminal and pigtail a piece of copper to reach it.


Yes HD OR lOWES has them


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