# Vaulted Ceiling - Insulating & Removal of Ceiling Joists



## hammertyme (Dec 9, 2014)

Hey everyone. Newbie here. Doing a bathroom remodel. 

1 story ranch house, built in 1978, brick exterior. 2000q ft. Bathroom is 8'X13' and sits at the back corner of the home. 2 of the walls are load bearing outside walls. Have questions about insulating the roof rafters, and removal of the ceiling joists. 

Roof rafters are 2x6 spaced 24". Ceiling joists are also 2x6 spaced 24". My main point of confusion comes from the often repeated pondering of us DIY'ers that want to remove our flat 8' ceilings and expose a vaulted or cathedral ceiling: Insulating and Venting. I understand the need for air space, and using baffles under the insulation quite well, where I'm stuck is that this roof, or rather this room in particular, is on a corner of the house, so the roof rafters I will be sistering additional depth on, and eventually insulating, do not lead to the ridge of the roof. 

My initial idea is to sister additional 2x6 material directly onto the face of the existing rafters by using 12" strips of plywood on both sides and going thru both 2x6's from the front with 8 inch decking bolts. Liquid nails, staggered wood screws on the sides etc. Structurally the home is in great shape and the roof and decking is only 7 years old. No worries about needing extra support, just simply how best to insulate and vent? Do I even need to vent this area since none of these joists make it to the roof ridge?

For removal of the ceiling joists, I fully understand that is literally not feasible due to the fact it is supporting the outside load bearing wall, and removing them entirely is a very bad idea. With that said, what can be done to retain that support while clearing out the ceiling space so to speak to open the space up? Any ideas? I would love to use steel tie rods instead of the old 2x6's but I also wouldn't mind sanding and refinishing the 2x6's if I have to keep them, but can I rearrange them so to speak? Or condense them in any way?

I have long lurked on this message board and have finally decided to post. Look forward to hearing from someone and sharing pictures of my remodel. 

The room started out as a bathroom/master closet space with a totally rotted load bearing outside wall due to shower leakage and a very bad black mold issue. I have gutted the entire room down to the studs. Replaced the wall frame that was damaged (yes I supported the roof rafters with a temp wall), and reinstalled new insulation on all 4 walls, along with plastic vapor barrier. 

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

P.S. 18 inches of blown fiberglass with a Shop-Vac is just complete torture!


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

You need to start with the engineering part of the equation and then we can talk about insulation based on what is feasible.


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## hammertyme (Dec 9, 2014)

Absolutely! Please give me some direction. What is 'the engineering part of the equation'?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Need someone on site that knows what there talking about.
Whole lot of draw backs to a vaulted ceiling.
All the heat is going to rise to the peak and be stuck there.
All that hot moist air is going to be trapped at the peak of the roof causing mold and tape release issues.
Rafters would have to be built out so there was room for proper air flow and insulation.
Where are you going to install a exhaust vent? 
Some things look pretty in pictures or on TV and on paper but are just not practical.
Google "insulation zone map" to see what thickness you would need.
Last place I'd want a vaulted ceiling is in a bathroom.


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## hammertyme (Dec 9, 2014)

I am in Oklahoma City. Zone 3. R30 for the roof insulation is my plan. And if you read my post again I specified the build up of the rafters to accommodate added insulation.

Back to my question: do I need to vent with baffles since none of these rafter runs meet the actual ridge. I attached pictures to show the area I'm talking about. It's on a corner of the house.

Thank you for your reply!


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

hammertyme said:


> I am in Oklahoma City. Zone 3. R30 for the roof insulation is my plan. And if you read my post again I specified the build up of the rafters to accommodate added insulation.
> 
> Back to my question: do I need to vent with baffles since none of these rafter runs meet the actual ridge. I attached pictures to show the area I'm talking about. It's on a corner of the house.
> 
> Thank you for your reply!


If there is no attic, then no need for baffles. Baffles are only to allow air into the attic in order for the hot attic air to escape.

If it were me, I'd have the blown foam installed. My neighbor is building a house and had his rafters foamed in. This summer without a/c, the insulation was really keeping the heat out.


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## hammertyme (Dec 9, 2014)

*Closed Cell Foam*

I had grandiose visions of foaming the interior walls with 3-4 inches of closed cell or even open cell foam. Pfffftttt... yea I got a reality check real quick. 

The room is 8'x13' with 8' tall 2x4 stud walls. 

Wall 1: 8'x8' = 64'
Wall 2: 8'x13' = 104'
Wall 3: 8'x8' = 64'
Wall 4: 8'x13' = 104'

So thats 336 board feet at 1 inch of cured thickness. These are 2"x4" stud walls so I could fit 3.5" of cured thickness in the walls. So my total needed foam insulation quantity would be: 1176 board feet. 

At a going rate of around $1.00 per board foot that would be roughly $1200 to spray foam insulate the 4 walls. This is going off the rough estimate of $1.00 per board foot that both professional contractors quoted me as well as the average price of DIY purchased spray foam kits. 

Add the roof into the equation...pffffttt....forget about it! Thats approaching $2000 to spray the room and the ceiling.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

hammertyme said:


> I had grandiose visions of foaming the interior walls with 3-4 inches of closed cell or even open cell foam. Pfffftttt... yea I got a reality check real quick.
> 
> The room is 8'x13' with 8' tall 2x4 stud walls.
> 
> ...


I find it strange that people have no issues spending money on everything involved in building but when it comes to something as important as insulation, "it's too expensive". :huh:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Vaulted ceilings in bathrooms (unless the framing is completely uncoupled) are usually terrible ideas.

I have seen plenty with the condensation stripping in them as a result.


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