# dark primer????



## thehvacguy (Oct 30, 2009)

I keep seeing these commercials on the DIY channel telling us to use dark primer for bright color paint. I never heard of dark primer.... But can someone explain this to me? It defys the laws of common sense lol. Thanks.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

A tinted primer (greys) willhelp deep based paints( reds) cover better


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## thehvacguy (Oct 30, 2009)

Yes but I don't understand why...


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Somebody will be along to explain much better than I could.


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## ltd (Jan 16, 2011)

it kind of like ,how does a dana posi trac unit work ? it just does .:huh:


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

If you really want a dark primer, Zinsser 1-2-3 Bull's Eye makes a deep base primer (Dark Blue on the label). It will go to a 3 or deep base. If you want your clean crisp, bright colors to stay that way, use a white undercoat. Dark primers work best with dark, earthtone colors.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Mr. Paint said:


> If you really want a dark primer, Zinsser 1-2-3 Bull's Eye makes a deep base primer (Dark Blue on the label). It will go to a 3 or deep base. If you want your clean crisp, bright colors to stay that way, use a white undercoat. Dark primers work best with dark, earthtone colors.


 
But why? Thats what he wants to know


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

In thinking about it it is probably as much about tradition as anything else. I just learned to tint primer 40 percent or so of the paint color or use a dark primer for deeper colors because it would help with show through. But if you are putting on two nice coats it is rather a non-issue. 

I do agree that a white primer/underlay is sometimes a better choice than a colored sealer/primer. Especially for trim in dark colors.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

On a side note: When trying to create a dark primer. Be careful of putting to much tint in a primer, because you can lose some of the priming properties of the primer in doing so. :yes:


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## Paintguy (Jun 7, 2011)

If the top coat(s) were completely opaque, the color of the primer would not matter. However, since two coats of some of these clean colors still allow some light through to the substrate, it stands to reason that if the substrate did not reflect back much light (that is adsorbed it all), then the top coats would appear more opaque. It does indeed mostly work but for the color to appear true, the color of the undercoat needs to be tuned to the color of the topcoat (i.e. one gray doesn't work for every red). Even then, more often than not, you do not see the true color. That is why the best solution is a red or yellow tint base offered by many suppliers.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Paintguy said:


> If the top coat(s) were completely opaque, the color of the primer would not matter. However, since two coats of some of these clean colors still allow some light through to the substrate, it stands to reason that if the substrate did not reflect back much light (that is adsorbed it all), then the top coats would appear more opaque. It does indeed mostly work but for the color to appear true, the color of the undercoat needs to be tuned to the color of the topcoat (i.e. one gray doesn't work for every red). Even then, more often than not, you do not see the true color. That is why the best solution is a red or yellow tint base offered by many suppliers.


 
Sounds good to me:thumbsup:

I bet rick knows paint could add a paragraph or 3:yes:


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

The ACTUAL "why" has to do with the transparency of those deep tintbases!

* The deeper the color, the less "White" pigment can be present. White pigments, typically varying grades/grind-levels of TI02, are very opaque.
* When tinting a "Burgundy" for example, you'd never get deeper than a "Pepto-pink" if there was a lot of TI02 present in that can!
* Therefore....deep tintbases have little, if ANY, White! So...if you shook-up an untinted Accent/Neutral tintbase and painted it on the wall, it would dry nearly CLEAR.
* Complicating this further....the artificial colorants like Reds, Magenta's, Yellows, & some Blues....have little hiding-power/Opacity of their own!!
* So.....when tinting a Burgundy....we're dumping a LOT of fairly sheer colorant into a base that has little "hiding power"!
* Result?!?!!? You're basically rolling Strawberry Kool-Aid on the wall!

The remedy?!!?

>>>> Darker backgrounds!

* White backgrounds reflect a LOT of light.
* Grays reflect LITTLE light.
* The whole key is this: A darker background (tinted primer) will reflect LESS light through a fairly sheer topcoat color.
* Most of you know what happens when you paint a "Red/Magenta" on a WHITE wall!!
* Optically....GRAY is the best backdrop for MOST dark colors. 
* I've got my favorite "Gray-levels" for most colors like this, when I'm tinting Reds for people.
* LIGHT-Gray primers are still waaaayyy too white to be of benefit!
* You've gotta get to "Battleship Gray" OR DARKER.
* Tinted primers for mid-range colors are basically useless. If someone says they're benefiting from a khaki-tinted primer under a "Khaki", they're painting waaaay to thin!! Mid-range colors like that have a decent level of White in them.

NOTE: An important exception to this......!!!

>>> Bright & Vivid colors like "Lemon-Yellows, Limes, and Oranges" can be skewed by a medium-gray background.
* These kinda colors need a deep-tint capable primer tinted to almost the full color of the topcoat!
* Realize however....the more colorant a primer has, the longer it's gonna take to dry.

Faron
C2 Guy


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

The gray primers provide depth, so that there is better hold out and color uniformity.


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## thehvacguy (Oct 30, 2009)

Wow cool that makes great sense! Thanks for your you knowledge!


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