# why I can no longer receive local broadcasting tv stations



## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Sometimes the station has issues, try calling them.
I know I lose channels for a few days to a week as they do some work on their equipment.
Then they just show up again.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Check the cable, it should be 75 ohm (RG-59). You can use 50 ohm cable with a matching transformer on each end, but the attenuation is terrible.

TV channels reside in 3 bands: 2 thru 6 (Low VHF), 7 thru 13 (High VHF) and 14 on up (UHF). Sounds like the High VHF part of your antenna has bitten the dust.

The different "versions" of channel 2 are multiple program streams. 2.1 is probably their main HD signal, with 2.2, 2.3, etc carrying other programming. One might be an ongoing repeat of their latest newscast, while another might show old movies, cartoons or (heaven forbid) a shopping channel.

Already looking for the PDF I put together years ago for family explaining 'Major.Minor' channels you see on 2.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 31, 2021)

Have you tried the auto channel search on your TV. I lost some channels on my tv (antenna) and a quick channel search restored them.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

FirebirdHank said:


> Have you tried the auto channel search on your TV. I lost some channels on my tv (antenna) and a quick channel search restored them.


I didn't think about that. Occasionally reception on some fringe channels gets so bad my TV decides they are scrambled and they are removed. If I tune to them manually (Enter _x.y_ on the remote) they show SCRAMBLED, but rescanning brings them back.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Great comments guys, I really appreciate it. Here's some add'l info.

The 4 channels that I cannot get, I have never been able to get on the new flatscreen. Not one time have they ever shown up. On the analog version, I would get them all, but sometimes one might fade in and out, but I was always able to get them all.

I called the one local ch that I could get and spoke to a really nice guy in engineering. He even had a website that if you enter your address, it will tell you the exact distance from all of the local big channel transmitters. All of the ones in questions are about 58-59 miles from my place, including the station I can get [Ch 2 NBC] and the other 3 I cannot get. He asked me how high was my antenna, where was it located w respect to house and metal roof, trees, etc. All for the antenna checked out fine, other than there might be an issue w possible corrosion. Grayhair, is this a possibility that could have disenabled the the high VHF part of the antenna that you stated? The website is tvfool.com He said to look at a 30db amplifier. He stated that the external analog to digital converter box w the booster combo prob has more of a kick to it than the internal A to Dig booster that's built into the flat-screen. If that is the case, then do you guys have a recommendation on a make & model ?

I am going back out tomorrow. Are there any pictures of anything you would like for me to take and post for you? I'd be happy to post anything.

Thank you very much guys, I really appreciate it.=,
tstex


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Here's a link to an Amazon page full of boosters and amplifiers. I am pretty much lost on which one of these to consider. The prices are from $9.99 to $179....quite a range, but I probably no qualifying them correctly....





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Amazon.com : 30db amplifier






www.amazon.com


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

58-59 miles is quite a distance despite what some antenna's claim.

What antenna do you have now? is it directional or an omni?
And booster.
Optimal length of coax is 50ft, so I have read anyway.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

there are several antenna aiming programs on the web. An antenna that high up would be a bear to readjust. Antennas Direct | TV Transmitter Locator and Mapping Tool
TV's have different components inside them. I had an old VIZIO and it worked great, until it died. The new one picked up the channels but was not as robust when the wind came.

Check the cable connections you can easily, Hand tighten, re scan the TV and see how that helps. 
Then deal with the aiming site.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

This is the antenna I use I'm 40 miles from all my towers and they are in the same direction from me.
However I have hills and trees in the way. And Mine is one story high.









Amazon.com: Antennas Direct ClearStream 4V TV Antenna, 70+ Mile Range, UHF/Vhf, Multi-Directional, Indoor, Attic, Outdoor, Mast W/Pivoting Base/Hardware/Adjustable Clamp/Sealing Pads, 4K Ready, Black – C4-V-CJM : Electronics


Buy Antennas Direct ClearStream 4V TV Antenna, 70+ Mile Range, UHF/Vhf, Multi-Directional, Indoor, Attic, Outdoor, Mast W/Pivoting Base/Hardware/Adjustable Clamp/Sealing Pads, 4K Ready, Black – C4-V-CJM: Marine Antennas - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





This is My booster.





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Amazon.com






www.amazon.com


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks again guys...Steve, I am not sure whether the antenna picks up signals from all directions or if it has to be pointed in a certain direction. I has been installed for about 15-20 yrs and has never been moved or re-pointed. I can go on the roof tomorrow and take some close-up pics of anything you need.

Next, I will certainly look at all the connections for integrity, tightness, etc. When I had a satellite dish installed about 2-3 mo's ago, he checked the integrity of the Antenna to TV cable by pulling it out [w a lead wire] so he could run the new cable from the dish to the TV. I am not sure of the exact distance, but I bet it close to 50ft +/-. But, whatever distance it is, it used to work fine w the previous set up w my Sony Trinitron. I am leaning to weak signals, but I cannot say anything of certainty.

When I hooked-up the flat-screen to the antenna the first time, I performed the search for all the possible channels. I did this before I had the dish. It searched for channels by cable, satellite and then antenna. the first 2 yielded zero, but the antenna scan yielded about 50-60 channels. Nothing changed at all after the dish install. The dish is only for internet access and I can stream App's like NetFLix, etc.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Here's an Amazon link to a picture of an antenna that looks just like mine. When I go tomorrow, I will take some pics of it and see if I can obtain any serial or model numbers....

Are there any other pictures that you guys need?





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Amazon.com






www.amazon.com


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> This is the antenna I use I'm 40 miles from all my towers and they are in the same direction from me.
> However I have hills and trees in the way. And Mine is one story high.
> 
> 
> ...


Steve,

I could not find the db booster value for the model amplifier you posted. do you know? The guy from the local Ch 2 NBC said I needed the 30db booster.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> Thanks again guys...Steve, I am not sure whether the antenna picks up signals from all directions or if it has to be pointed in a certain direction. I has been installed for about 15-20 yrs and has never been moved or re-pointed. I can go on the roof tomorrow and take some close-up pics of anything you need.
> 
> Next, I will certainly look at all the connections for integrity, tightness, etc. When I had a satellite dish installed about 2-3 mo's ago, he checked the integrity of the Antenna to TV cable by pulling it out [w a lead wire] so he could run the new cable from the dish to the TV. I am not sure of the exact distance, but I bet it close to 50ft +/-. But, whatever distance it is, it used to work fine w the previous set up w my Sony Trinitron. I am leaning to weak signals, but I cannot say anything of certainty.
> 
> When I hooked-up the flat-screen to the antenna the first time, I performed the search for all the possible channels. I did this before I had the dish. It searched for channels by cable, satellite and then antenna. the first 2 yielded zero, but the antenna scan yielded about 50-60 channels. Nothing changed at all after the dish install. The dish is only for internet access and I can stream App's like NetFLix, etc.


There are what I call the "traditional" tv antennas, long boom rods sticking out along the boom etc.
They work just fine, I had one it worked great with the same amp.
Issue I don't like is most have a old style flat antenna wire connection at the antenna that then converts to a coax connector.

Years up on the roof with uv rays, and wind the old style flat part degrades and breaks or at least only makes ocassional connections.

Thats why I got the antenna I listed above, direct coax connection, and it works just the same, at least with my situation.


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## icerabbit (8 mo ago)

Cord cutter here.

What antenna do you have? Amplified? 
Still aimed correctly?
Any broken pieces?
Moisture intrusion?
Did your amplifier for the antenna or its power supply bite the dust?

What is the distance to the stations that come in clear versus the ones that do not?

If the ones missing are the farthest, there is not have enough signal from the antenna to get them. Every TV has its quirks in dealing with pixelation before saying no signal. 

If they are the closest, then your signal can be too hot.

What is the cable length from antenna to the TV? 

When I had an issue with my signal it would pretty be an issue with aiming (storm) or the wall wart for the antenna amp. Or simply bad weather and can’t pull in the farthest ones.

All my wiring is RG6, quad shielded. I have redone some of my connections outside, because I used ordinary connectors, trying to figure it out. Pretty much everybody here has cable or dish, or nothing, due to 60+ miles to major tv stations.

It took me a fair bit of trial and error to find a great amplified antenna, (lots of false ad claims), find a suitable location in or around around the house, tweak the direction, deal with amplification and interior cable balancing, … attic, basement, … deal with interference from CFL bulbs, from early LED bulbs …

End result: I have my amplified antenna simply outside on the ground, aiming at the most important direction - more or less - and pull stations in from 60-70+ miles away. Rural state. Very few TV stations. No line of sight due to distance, trees, terrain, hilly forested location …


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> Steve,
> 
> I could not find the db booster value for the model amplifier you posted. do you know? The guy from the local Ch 2 NBC said I needed the 30db booster.


If you need a 30db booster then go with channel master.





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Amazon.com






www.amazon.com





Mine is 


VHF gain: 16dB
UHF gain: 22dB


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes, corrosion is usually the problem on antennas, unless the wind has gotten it.

The reason for 3 different sections of the antenna relates to the physical length of the antenna elements in the three bands (as frequency increases, wavelength decreases). Low VHF (around 45 to 88 MHz) requires the longest elements, Hi VHF (around 175 to 220 MHz) the medium elements and UHF (around 470 to 600 MHz) the shortest elements.


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## wrbrb (Aug 18, 2020)

One thing I'll mention is that ever since over the air broadcast channels went from analog to digital (2 to 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, or 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, etc.) I have found it harder to tune them in and somewhat harder for the TVs to find them with the auto channel search feature. In the past, you might get a fuzzy picture and you could dial things in. With the digital channels they are more likely to just get blocky, freeze, and disappear, and then the TV doesn't really recognize them. So you could be very close with your antenna but with digital there is no close, just on or off, yes or no.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

wrbrb said:


> In the past, you might get a fuzzy picture and you could dial things in. With the digital channels they are more likely to just get blocky, freeze, and disappear, and then the TV doesn't really recognize them.


That is the infamous "digital cliff". Once you're over the "edge", that's it; no reception. 

I think the "signal strength" most digital TV's display actually refers to the number of blocks successfully decoded.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

thanks again guys for all the information and questions...really good thoughts...

Instead of guessing, when i go out tomorrow, I will get on roof and start taking pictures along w measuring distances and other...I will disconnect the cable connections and take pictures so we can make a call on any corrosion issues or other.

Are there any pics I can take of the upper antenna while I'm on the roof? I'll bring my tape measure as well and obtain any and all dimensions that you need.

Finally, thanks Steve on the link you sent. The product you listed, amazon said it's currently not available and doe not know when or if it will be in stock again. Is there a similar/equivalent amplifier you could pls suggest. Once I go out and post all the pics and information we need, if it leads to procuring an amplifier, then I'll order it while I am there...

Again, thank you very much guys....tstex


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

I'm about 10 miles south of Hobby airport and can reliably receive ch2 and 8, 13 breaks up often, 11 forget it. On a clear day I've been able to see the antennas at the Stafford antenna farm the network antennas are. That tower is 1300 feet tall I was told. Years ago when ch 39 was just being built I knew a guy that had been hired as a transmitter engineer. He told me that due to the wavelength of ch 2 we were lucky to get it at all this close to the antenna. 
I have a Vizio TV and one of those flat HD antennas that to thumbtack to the wall. It is powered, whatever that does. Mostly we don't watch network TV so not much worried about the situation.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> thanks again guys for all the information and questions...really good thoughts...
> 
> Instead of guessing, when i go out tomorrow, I will get on roof and start taking pictures along w measuring distances and other...I will disconnect the cable connections and take pictures so we can make a call on any corrosion issues or other.
> 
> ...


Thats strange I show it is avaliable, I put it into my cart and was one click away from ordering it...

I deleted it of course.

But you can get it from Channel Master directly even cheaper $89









Amplify Adjustable Gain Preamplifier


Official Channel Master Website - Learn more about the Channel Master Amplify (CM-7777HD) and buy direct from the manufacturer.




www.channelmaster.com


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks Wooley and Steve....I know where those towers are now that you mention it...A low flying Cessna would get clipped in this area....Yes Steve, after I want back and tried viewing it again, it was available. I called Channel Master and they told me they had a on and off "2-weeks supply" of both the 7777 & 7778. I just hit Amazon when they were out and when you and I hit it again, the inventory was updated...

My plan is to get all the pics, spec's, measurements and anything else we all discussed, post them, then place an order for whatever is needed to move forward...sound like a plan?

PS - the only hiccup could be if it's raining tomorrow. W a metal roof, rain dirt and debris make it very slippery...that's another whole thread...


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Pictures likely won't show corrosion unless it's extremely bad. Look for symmetry of elements on either side of the boom (long structural rod in the center of the antenna).

Most TV antennas are shipped folded and are unfolded during installation. When elements are unfolded they lock in place with a simple (read cheap) catch. If you can access the antenna, not on a tall mast, you can try "exercising" the elements by releasing the catch for an element and moving the joint back and forth. If that helps, it will be temporary (no telling how long).

TV antennas are directional. That's why antennas were often mounted on a rotor allowing you to watch stations in many different directions. In the image below the transmitters would be to the left of the antenna.

The longest elements are for Low VHF and the shorter elements for High VHF. The shortest elements (possibly fixed) are for UHF and the V-shaped portion is mainly UHF, but might have some High VHF elements.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

thanks g-hair...pls see my comments/questions below yours:

"Pictures likely won't show corrosion unless it's extremely bad. Look for symmetry of elements on either side of the boom (long structural rod in the center of the antenna)."

*Will do on the symmetry and I will ck each part on both sides of the both from one end to the other. Also, re corrosion inspection, I am going to detach each connection and will take close pics of the male/female connectors*

"Most TV antennas are shipped folded and are unfolded during installation. When elements are unfolded they lock in place with a simple (read cheap) catch. If you can access the antenna, not on a tall mast, you can try "exercising" the elements by releasing the catch for an element and moving the joint back and forth. If that helps, it will be temporary (no telling how long)." 

*What does releasing the "catch" and moving it around do to improve reception? I am reading this correctly?*

TV antennas are directional. That's why antennas were often mounted on a rotor allowing you to watch stations in many different directions. In the image below the transmitters would be to the left of the antenna.

*So wherever the TV transmitters are located, you point the antenna in the direction w the shorter extensions from the boom, correct?*

The longest elements are for Low VHF and the shorter elements for High VHF. The shortest elements (possibly fixed) are for UHF and the V-shaped portion is mainly UHF, but might have some High VHF elements. 

*This explains the anatomy of the antenna and what each section of elements focuses on to achieve reception, correct?
Thank again !*


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

tstex said:


> What does releasing the "catch" and moving it around do to improve reception? I am reading this correctly?


It may scrub off some of the corrosion. That's why any improvement will be temporary; any corrosion removed will come back.



tstex said:


> I am going to detach each connection and will take close pics of the male/female connectors


At a minimum, exterior connections should be taped with high quality electrical tape. Unless there is a coax lead from the antenna, it's pretty hard to seal a connection. If there is a lead, I make a couple of wraps at the high end, twist the tape 180°, wrap with tape to below the connection overlapping the previous wrap, twist the tape 180° again and wrap tightly upwards past the starting point, again overlapping the previous wrap.

The first pass puts the non-adhesive side of the tape across the connection (you'll appreciate that if you ever have to open it again), The second pass allows the tape to adhere and the bottom-to-top overlaps provides only one wrap where water can enter.



tstex said:


> So wherever the TV transmitters are located, you point the antenna in the direction w the shorter extensions from the boom, correct?


Correct.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Consider this, the current antenna is 15-20 yrs old.
It's on the roof of a 2 story home.
Try to fix what you have now and have to revisit it a few more times within a few more yrs.

I'm all about saving money, but lifespan is lifespan, and considering you want to reach 60 miles, any degradation to the antenna won't help.

15 to 20 yrs is a good run, time to redo with all new imo.
That and I don't like to be up on the roof, the less the better. 


*"How Long is an Aerial Expected to Last?*
If the TV aerial is of good quality and was installed by a professional, it may last between 10 to 20 years. It could last longer, though. Many people have been using the same aerial for 30 years with no issues at all."








What Is the Lifespan of a TV Aerial?


Whether you’re looking to install a TV aerial or already have one, knowing what determines the lifespan of an aerial is important. Call us on 01708 347257




aerialsdirect.co.uk


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Try this site?









DTV Reception Maps







www.fcc.gov




click each station to see on map

www.antennaweb.org









Try turning off the analog to digital converter.

Is Hi-V band related?


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks for the clarifications ghair, thanks Steve & diyorpay.

Here’s a statement snd question: 

i can get Ch 2 (NBC), but i cannot get 8 (PBS), 9 FOX) 11 (CBS) or 13 (ABC). I can also get 58 other types of channels, none of which are any of the above renamed by a diff number. All of these Ch are by the antenna.

All of the above transmitters are btw 58-60 miles, this includes the one i can get and the other 4 i cannot. If there are corrosion issues or distance limitations, what allows me to get 2 but not the others? Can 1-2 mi’s make the difference? I do understand that digital is all or nothing and analog can vary on reception and fade in & out.

Just trying to better understand the dynamics here vs just obtain answers…thank you

Edit: And yes, I agree and see the value of looking into a new antenna too. If so, do they make the ones today w built in amplifiers, or is it an add-on?

Just arrived at ranch and winds are 20+ MPH w on and off rain/mist. I’m not inclined to attempt climbing into roof. But i did measure height of pole and it’s right under 20ft..


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Here’s a pic. I see a few elements that are not perfectly 90’ed to the boom. Ii bought the new antenna in April 2006. It’s a Winegard HD


Here’s a link to the specs of my current antenna:









Winegard HD7082 High Definition VHF/UHF/FM TV Antenna - Newegg.com


Buy Winegard HD7082 High Definition VHF/UHF/FM TV Antenna with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.google.com


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Just did some lookups. Not a supprise that you get NBC better.

KW transmitting power.

NBC 1000 kw

Fox  800 kw

CBS 25 kw

ABC 32 kw

PBS 34 kw


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> Just did some lookups. Not a supprise that you get NBC better.
> 
> KW transmitting power.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve

Based on your findings, would a new antenna or amplifier on current, or an add’n to a new antenna, allow me to access the 4 that i cannot?


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

I couldn't find it in your posts, do you have an amp now on your setup?
How old is it? Same as the antenna?


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> I couldn't find it in your posts, do you have an amp now on your setup?
> How old is it? Same as the antenna?


I tossed the old booster when I went to the flatscreen about 6 mos ago. I had a local outfit do the install in 2006.

W the original install of the booster on inside of house, would there be another part of the booster on the antenna outside? The booster inside was about 3”x3” w 2 coaxial connectors and when working, a red light would stay lit. I plugged it into the 110 receptacle.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Usually the "Amp" is attached at the antenna, the power for it is located in a device at the TV.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Can you see any name on the device at your tv ?


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

It's not cheap, but I would get a 








Amazon.com: HD7698A Long Range Outdoor HDTV Antenna - 65+ Mile Range : Everything Else


Amazon.com: HD7698A Long Range Outdoor HDTV Antenna - 65+ Mile Range : Everything Else



www.amazon.com





And try it without an amp first.
Then if you need an amp the previously mentioned channelmaster or another good one is...









Amazon.com: Televes 560383 Single Input Antenna Preamp Amplifier, Coaxial F-Fitting Connections, Automatic Gain Control (AGC) 5G Filtered, High Gain : Industrial & Scientific


Buy Televes 560383 Single Input Antenna Preamp Amplifier, Coaxial F-Fitting Connections, Automatic Gain Control (AGC) 5G Filtered, High Gain: Antennas - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> Can you see any name on the device at your tv ?


Can you pls clarify what you mean by the device by my tv? Thank you


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> Can you pls clarify what you mean by the device by my tv? Thank you


Ok I'm getting confused I just reread your post including...

"The booster inside was about 3”x3” w 2 coaxial connectors and when working, a red light would stay lit. I plugged it into the 110 receptacle"

So just to recap, your current antenna "Had" a amplifier.
And 6 months ago it was removed ?

Question...

After the amp was removed were you able to access all the channels with no amp?


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

@Steve2444 , pretty sure the HD7698A antenna does not receive Low VHF,.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

GrayHair said:


> @Steve2444 , pretty sure the HD7698A antenna does not receive Low VHF,.


From what I read "low" VHF is almost obsolete and kind of rare, I may be wrong though.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

GrayHair said:


> @Steve2444 , pretty sure the HD7698A antenna does not receive Low VHF,.


From what I can tell his only station that he has is VHF out of the 5 is ABC KTRK channel 13, which would be high VHF


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Check the first paragraph in Post #1.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

GrayHair said:


> Check the first paragraph in Post #1.


Ah he gets 40 to 50 other channels, I missed that.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Using same site I used in #28 above,









DTV Reception Maps







www.fcc.gov





I entered zip 78934. Then this chart appears.

Seems like the channels you can't get are different, as in Hi-V vs UHF. Hi-V is high VHF. They are orange below.
Click on each station name.
Although all point to same tower (except last 2), the Hi-V ones are classified as 'Weak'.











This site says this:



https://www.groundedreason.com/watch-tv-free-antenna-guide/#Channels_in_Lo-VHF_VHF-Hi_and_UHF


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thank you very much guys. Been off the grid for last 2days. I’ll respond in more detail soon.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> Can you see any name on the device at your tv ?


Steve, I do not have anything inside the house like when I previously had that sm booster w a red light. Right now, the antenna cable plugs directly into the TV w nothing inbetween. Does this make sense ?


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> Ok I'm getting confused I just reread your post including...
> 
> "The booster inside was about 3”x3” w 2 coaxial connectors and when working, a red light would stay lit. I plugged it into the 110 receptacle"
> 
> ...


When I went from the older set-up to the new one, the amplifier/booster was removed from the inside completely. An engr friend of mine and I, we tried using the previous booster/amplifier, but it did not work. Little to no ch's would appear. We did the "Scan for stations" process both w and without the older B/Amp and the ch's only worked w out the B/Amp being installed. I did not however, remove anything from the antenna. Does this clarify ?


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> Steve, I do not have anything inside the house like when I previously had that sm booster w a red light. Right now, the antenna cable plugs directly into the TV w nothing inbetween. Does this make sense ?


Yes it does.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

I'm thinking the old booster is still up there at the antenna, unpowered.

Can you get to the old booster easily?

If so you may just need a new (better) booster/amplifier.

The old unpowered booster may be interfering with your signal.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Ok, I have completely reread the thread and tried any


Steve2444 said:


> Yes it does.
> 
> A couple of questions...
> 
> ...


"When you had the amplifier (booster) hooked up you got all your channels?" 

Yes, I could get Ch 2 [that I now get too] and I also received the ones that I do not get now: Ch 8, Ch 11, Ch 13, Ch 26]. But, w the current set-up, I get about 35-40 more channels that I did not receive previously.

"It seems like you don't have the "booster" any longer ?

Why was the booster removed?"

When we removed the Sony Tv and old Analog to Digital converter, I kept the sm 3"x 3" booster/amplifier. After installing the new 2019 tv, we installed the B/Amp in the same manner as the Sony, but nothing worked. It was like the booster caused interference . We scanned the channels 2-3 diff times....nothing. Then we bypassed the B/Amp and scanned the TV, this is when I saw I was getting 4 to 5 times the amt of channels that I previously had, BUT, i was not getting any of the major network ch's except for Ch 2 NBC. This is where I am at the present.

Thank you


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## icerabbit (8 mo ago)

Don't feel like you need to get the biggest antenna with the most arms and have to go up on top of the roof ...

In Florida I have antennas at the gutter level on the edge of the roof, aiming to the metropolitan area.
In Maine, granted we live on a bit of a hill, my antenna sits practically on the ground.

My antenna is a rectangular white flat box, with two skinny round side arms sticking out. Ordered from AMZ, $200 ( after cheaper ones did not work out ), not currently available, but there looks to be a " twin " sold under a different brand.

I amplified right at the antenna, short bit of coax, then the doohikey with its wall wart, which poses for a bit of an install issue, in that I needed to improvise and run an extension cord into an exterior electrical waterproof box placed onto to the antenna mast ...

I was going to do an inside the attic install, and did get it working in the attic, but distribution and cable length was a bit of an issue, plus struggled a bit to get the farthest channels. I figured it'd install it outside on the side of the chimney, but after experimenting, I hung it suspended from the deck for a while, a few feet off the ground, and I now have on like a 4 foot post at the foot of the chimney.

The other day with a channel scan, clear morning, it pulled 50 channels. Every major station and their sub channels. 25 - 75 miles away. Sometimes we do get some interference due to weather or who knows what on the main channel we prefer. Not much we can do.

But I really think it is down the antenna, the right amount of amplification and then cable length.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> I'm thinking the old booster is still up there at the antenna, unpowered.
> 
> Can you get to the old booster easily?
> 
> ...


This makes sense and it's probably my fault for not asking the question much clearer, but my original question was "do the booster's/Amplifiers have 2 parts: one next to the TV and one at the antenna?" The one inside was removed 6 months ago as I mentioned, but nothing has been do to the antenna at all. So, it sounds like I need to try to remove the one on the antenna to see if it is interfering w the signals for the weaker stations, yes? 

Thanks again Steve !


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## icerabbit (8 mo ago)

My long range antenna up North, is boosted right at the antenna ( powering its circuitry ), no further amplification inside the home at this time, it has enough signal for its line into the house and a passive splitter to 4 HDTVs. 

Extra line and amplification to double and triple the wire length, in the scenario of the antenna mounted inside the attic, then down to the basement and over to the different rooms was trial and error. Since there isn't really a meter for it, hard to tell if the signal is " too hot " or " too cold " and why some channels are missing, can be either the strongest ones or the weakest ones or all of them. 

My average / cheap antennas in FL, are boosted near the TV and have a short amount of coax wire going outside through the wall to the antenna.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> This makes sense and it's probably my fault for not asking the question much clearer, but my original question was "do the booster's/Amplifiers have 2 parts: one next to the TV and one at the antenna?" The one inside was removed 6 months ago as I mentioned, but nothing has been do to the antenna at all. So, it sounds like I need to try to remove the one on the antenna to see if it is interfering w the signals for the weaker stations, yes?
> 
> Thanks again Steve !


I believe removing the old booster at the antenna might give you better results, even if it's another channel or 2 it will let you know it was interfering.

And yes most boosters have 2 parts one at the antenna and one at the tv.

As a test I removed my unit at the tv just now, I get NO channels, it's been years since I had no booster but I believe I at least got a few.
So I'm thinking the old non working booster is blocking reception. 
Remove it and hook up the antenna directly and rescan, see what happens.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Most antennas are 300 ohm impedance (flat twin-lead) and use an impedance matching transfer at the antenna to use 75 ohm coax. I've seen maybe 2 fail in 50+ years.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks again for the immediate feedback guys, I really appreciate it.

So, moving forward, I am open to going w a new antenna or to try an appropriate Amp/Booster w my existing Winegard HD-7082 antenna, or to remove the non functional 1/2 of the booster that is still up on the antenna, or any combination of the above. 

From Steve, here is why I am getting ch 2:

"Just did some lookups. Not a surprise that you get NBC better.

KW transmitting power.

NBC 1000 kw Ch 2 [receive now]

Fox 800 kw Ch 26, no

CBS 25 kw Ch 11, no

ABC 32 kw Ch 13, no

PBS 34 kw?, Ch 8, no"

I am going to go back out tomorrow and take one of my daughters w me. If we can put together a checklist of all the items you want me to look into or perform, I will take my phone and post all of the answers. While there, I can immediately answer any follow-up questions. I can call the 2006 vendor that sold and installed my older set-up. They had the antenna info, would it help to know the make/model of the booster they installed too?

Thanks again and hopefully by tomorrow afternoon, we will have a clear path to the most cost-effective soln and the products I need to buy. 

Thanks again and pls let me know if you have any questions?


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

GrayHair said:


> Most antennas are 300 ohm impedance (flat twin-lead) and use an impedance matching transfer at the antenna to use 75 ohm coax. I've seen maybe 2 fail in 50+ years.
> View attachment 718641


Thanks g-hair....is this a part that is up on my antenna and the other half of the booster that could have failed or corroded?


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

tstex said:


> is this a part that is up on my antenna


Yes.


tstex said:


> and the other half of the booster


No. Pre-amps and mast-mounted amplifiers are in a small box, often plastic.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thank you g-hair- I will put it in my list of things to check.

So far, here is *my check list*:

Measure cable length from antenna to where it plugs into flat screen
Check all parts for integrity
Remove the other half of the booster that's on the antenna, then rescan ch's
Pull apart any and all outside connections to examine male and female integrity for corrosion, tightness, etc Take pictures of all connections where suspect.
Examine cable boom and elements for any major damage. If any parts are bent or not properly aligned, should I try moving them back? [2-3 elements were not perfectly 90 degrees to boom]
*Other?*
thanks again


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

GrayHair said:


> Yes.
> 
> No. Pre-amps and mast-mounted amplifiers are in a small box, often plastic.


I believe what he is talking about with the 2 parts is the pre amp at the antenna and the power supply at the tv sending power to the pre amp. 

That is how mine is setup.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

Antennas Direct | TV Transmitter Locator and Mapping Tool


Find your nearest digital TV transmitter with Antennas Direct's mapping tool. It's a quick and easy way to find digital television transmitters (DTVs) nearest to your location.




www.antennasdirect.com





The above link will show all the stations around you within 70 miles if you input your zipcode.

You can see what is strong or fair or weak to you, and what you can expect to get.

Also you can tell if you have any Low-VHF stations you want to get (very rare anymore)
Channels 2-6 are Low, some channels will be listed as 2-6 but only "virtual" the next colunm will show their true frequency and channel and UHF or VHF.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

tstex said:


> should I try moving them back?


You can try, but be gentle. Aluminium, any metal really, is stronger when bent, but removing that bend leaves it appreciably weaker than before it was first bent. A few degrees off won't make any difference. But once you reach around 15 degrees, it will probably start having some effect.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

The impedance changer (300 to 75 ohms) mentioned by Grayhair may be the first device attached to your existing antenna. Typically, the 2 'claw' dangly ends go onto 2 terminals of the antenna, under butterfly nuts. I used to seal the 2 points with large globs of silicone.

Next is probably a short piece of 75 ohm coax going from that device to first part of amplifier preamp booster system/IN. From booster/OUT the long run of coax travels down pole to next stage of plug in amplifier inside. 

Even if corrosion failures are rare, even some corrosion on those terminals or any coax connections can reduce signal. They were supposed to have rubber boots at coax join points.

My experience with old style booster systems was that if inside amplifier that plugged into an inside outlet either failed or was unplugged/removed, the 'system' failed and the signal was non existent. Believe it or not, preamp booster on pole may not be communicating with antenna at all and you are receiving decent signal because the coax up the pole to the booster/OUT and all the way down to the tv is acting like an antenna, strong enough to pick up good signals without physical antenna. This is my theory.

When you redesign what you have, 1) you can try direct connection from antenna to tv. (Remove or bypass the old part on the pole.) You may need to wire brush any connections and maybe replace part described by Grayhair.

Alternately, 2) you could buy a new amplifier system. Some are the 2 component type (outside and inside) and some are not (inside only).

Check out? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DQN3R9O/?tag=finalviews00-20&th=1
The Pro version has a smartphone app for fine tuning.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Steve2444 said:


> Low-VHF stations you want to get (very rare anymore)


VHF-Lo isn't obsolete, but the impulse noise in that band is not kind to digital. My spreadsheet is almost 4 years old but it shows over 40 stations still using channels 2 thru 6. Granted, not as many as there once was and stations are still moving and applying for authority to move out of the band. I expect some are waiting for ATSC3 to make real inroads across their markets before they abandon their VHF-Lo channels.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve, Grayhair and DIYorpay, thank you very much...great info and I am starting to catch-on here ;-)

The antenna that is installed right now is a Winegard HD-7082. I am sure there are spec's that define it's component types and how the elements are configured for what frequency.

Next, I called the place that did my original install in 2006 and I obtained the make/model of the Amplifier and it is indeed a 2 part device: Amp on antenna, and power supply inside by TV [the latter has been removed].
The make and model of the Amplifier is as follows:

Winegard AP-8275 amplifier, provides:
29DB gain on VHF, which are ch's 8, 11, 13 which I am not getting
28DB gain on UHF which includes Ch 2 and 14+. These are the channels I am getting.

Based on all of your input and reading, that 29DB gain on VHF is definitely what I do not have now. I am not getting the 4 channels in question; but I got them all previously both before we went to the analog to digital converter box and after the A-to-D converter box was installed, but both having the Amplifier/p-supply installed. This seems to be the missingf link, not having the amplifier. Or, and we shall see, if having only the antenna amplifier installed but not the power supply, we'll see tomorrow if that is it?

So, I will not try to bend any elements unless they are more than 15 degrees. I will remove the current amplifier from the antenna, check all the connections, use some fine sand paper to remove any oxidation or corrosion, then put all back together and run the "stations check" to see if any of the missing ch's come back. Sound like a plan?

Someone mentioned "boots" to protect the coaxial connections. Should I add these? If so, any specific make and model? Thanks again

Finally, based on the info of the Winegard amplifier, does this help and am I on the right track now?

Thanks again everyone !!


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

The boots can help but the better ones have to be installed before connectors are installed on the coax. IMHO, taping as I described is more effective. Yes, doing it is a PITA, but I find that often means it's better.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

GrayHair said:


> VHF-Lo isn't obsolete, but the impulse noise in that band is not kind to digital. My spreadsheet is almost 4 years old but it shows over 40 stations still using channels 2 thru 6. Granted, not as many as there once was and stations are still moving and applying for authority to move out of the band. I expect some are waiting for ATSC3 to make real inroads across their markets before they abandon their VHF-Lo channels.


Yes there are some areas that still have some low-v but a lot of the old stations that were, changed to other bands but kept the same channel like 2 but only virtually.
It's up to the OP if he has any or not that he's interested in.

I did a scan by me and within 70 miles there are only three, 46mi away. , and for some reason I can still get them even though my antenna doesn't cover Low-V. Go figure.
And they are on the backside of my antenna.
Mine is omnidirectional, but has the optional back screen to make it a bit more out the front.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

GrayHair said:


> The boots can help but the better ones have to be installed before connectors are installed on the coax. IMHO, taping as I described is more effective. Yes, doing it is a PITA, but I find that often means it's better.


👍. Tape it is.. electrical tape?


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes. Good quality electrical tape. And don't pull the tape to break it; cut it. Pulled tape wants to return to its normal state and will "unwrap".

_EDIT:_ Scotch 33 was my go-to electrical tape.

If you've ever opened a taped junction that's been exposed to the sun, you understand why I start with the adhesive side away from the cable.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

I'm willing to bet that one you get that non fuctioning amp off and hook up directly you'll get a bunch more stations .


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

GrayHair said:


> Yes. Good quality electrical tape. And don't pull the tape to break it; cut it. Pulled tape wants to return to its normal state and will "unwrap".
> 
> _EDIT:_ Scotch 33 was my go-to electrical tape.
> 
> If you've ever opened a taped junction that's been exposed to the sun, you understand why I start with the adhesive side away from the cable.


I will certainly use the tape and I can both appreciate and understand why you use the non-stick side first...I wrapped some wire-nuts inside a junction box that was going inside non-climate controlled shed [metal corrugated roof and sides]. Was going to add one more light switch and when I tried unwrapping those wire-nuts that had been taped w multiple revolutions, it was like that tape was arc-welded onto the wire-nuts, and the adhesive from the tape was baked into the wire-nuts, making for a very sticky retrofit. Also, great call on making sure I cut the tape so it will not want to refresh itself and peel back off...2 great tips !!


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> I'm willing to bet that one you get that non fuctioning amp off and hook up directly you'll get a bunch more stations .


I sure hope so Steve...not sure where are you guys live, but if I remove the amplifier and fire up the TV and it all works as is, you should be able to hear the "hell yeah" yell w/in 800 miles /


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> I sure hope so Steve...not sure where are you guys live, but if I remove the amplifier and fire up the TV and it all works as is, you should be able to hear the "hell yeah" yell w/in 800 miles /


Don't forget to re-scan


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Steve2444 said:


> Don't forget to re-scan


✔


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Guys,

One last question before I go out tomorrow.

If I remove the antenna portion of the amplifier, clean up any oxidized/corroded connections and properly tighten & tape those connections, then rescan the channels and nothing changes, what would be your recommendations on moving forward to access Ch 8 [PBS], Ch 9 [FOX], Ch 11 [CBS] & Ch 13 [ABC].

Do I buy just a new antenna, or try another amplifier or some combination? The reason I am asking bc if I can buy any of your recommended parts on the way, I will do so. This will allow me to test the purchased parts too and post back the results faster.

Pls note, the original amplifier that was installed was a Winegard AP-8275, w 29db gain on VHF & 28db gain on UHF. I called Winegard and they recommended an antenna w 70mi capability. They did not have any amplifiers w over a 16db gain. Are there other make/models to consider?

Again, thank you very much for all of your continued support and interest !! tstex


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Cheapest is probably the coax. One run is best since each connector causes a little loss.

Too strong a signal will overload the receiver's front end, but if you're 30 or more miles from the transmitters, that shouldn't be a problem.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

I would do as Grayhair suggests, replace the coax if it's around 10 yrs old.
Really after what? 15 to 20 yrs ?
I think a total overhaul is warranted, either that or forever be chasing your tail with old equipment.
Think of how much you are saving cutting the cord per yr.
Put that into perspective with the cost of new stuff.

If the coax doesn't fix it, then new antenna, if more is needed then be conserative with an amp.

I believe the person you spoke to was from the one station you "can" now receive that suggested 30 dbi amp.
Even though you are now getting thier station with NO amp. Think about that.

No harm in taking one step at a time.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Sounds like a plan guys / will
Post back very soon


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Ok, I’m out here..

I’m going to have to find a local farmer to assist bc the antenna plugs/etc are too high for me to access, and i don’t want to lean out/over too far and have to be drinking my Turkey and dressing via purée & straw. 

From the pic, I’m going to pull plug 1 (main coaxial cable), unplug 2 and connect 1 into 2, correct? Sorry if this is hard to see.

The antenna pole has some double 180 degree holes w long screws to allow telescopic movement. Going to need someone to lift on pole w antenna. Pull out screw, lower and find the set of holes about 4-5 ft higher, align holes again and insert screw. There’s no way this is a one man job. I remember this being installed w a truck w cherry-picker & crows nest. That sure would be a lot easier. 

Thank you & pls advise. On the way to find someone. Also, I’m going back up now b4 i leave and spray an assortment of PB Blasters, WD-40, etc to get the poles/holes & screws greased up.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

You are correct.

And yes, extending or retracting a push-up mast is a two man job.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

tstex said:


> From the pic, I’m going to pull plug 1 (main coaxial cable), unplug 2 and connect 1 into 2, correct? Sorry if this is hard to see.


Correct 

You chose wisely not to attempt an overstretch 2 stories up !


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

“He’ll yeah !!!!!!!!!!!” Did you hear me?

i went from 65 channels to 119 and am receiving all the 4-5 other main network channels that i was not receiving before.

Thanks to you all, esp Steve, Grayhair & DIYorpay!!! 

All the pictures are crystal clear, no pixelating or other. I wish all you guys were close enough to come to ranch for a Tx size BBQ

Again, many thanks, and I did not even have to spend a cent. But, I will buy new coaxial cable and have the correct antenna lined up when this one fails. All the connections still looked pretty good, but I’m going to tape them right now.

Much appreciation,
Tstex


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

👍


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Where you have your new red arrows, where they point are the 'boots', where coax cable is threaded on underneath.










1 (long run to tv) and 2 (connection to antenna) need to be joined to bypass device where 2 are plugged into preamp.
You 'unplug' 2 and let it dangle. Then unplug #1 and plug it where 2 was (if it reaches).

If you do it other way, to join end of 2 with no arrow to cable 1, you'll need a barrel connector to join, then tape.


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## tstex (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks DIY…the main trunk line was long enough to complete a HR from TV to antenna receptacle. The connections all looked pretty good. But i used some 1000 grit to clean up all, blew out w compressor (50ft hose) and then taped (first 3-4 pieces reversed sticky side) and then put caps back over them.

as suggested, I’m ordering more coaxial cable and will have a new antenna picked out ready to go when this one fails. All the elements were not bent anymore than prob 5-8 degrees, so i left them alone


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## RonArt (Mar 6, 2020)

tstex said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I have had a second home about 48 miles from West Houston TX. There are total of 3 major local TV stations and 2 others. The majors are Ch 11 [CBS], Ch 2 (NBC) and Ch 13 [ABC]; then Ch 9 [Local Fox News] and Ch 8 [PBS educational channel]. All of the above Ch Stations have their transmitters pretty much the same distance from ranch house.
> 
> ...


This worked great for me in a downstairs apartment, far from any tower. I have since moved to an upstairs apartment, due to a heavy stepping new neighbor. Cost < $100. 
Antenna
AntennaBottom
AntennaTop


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## joshuacollier (2 mo ago)

call their support


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

joshuacollier said:


> call their support


Call who's support?


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## MTVhike (7 mo ago)

Sorry to jump in without reading all the threads, but 50 or miles is difficult. Things got a lot dicier when the broadcast stations went digital; I suspect your earlier reception using your Triniton TV was all analog. If you want to continue to try to get these stations with an antenna, you're best off with a Yagi-style antenna. If the stations are all in the same direction, then one might work, but you may have to get a rotator. Many stations changed their broadcast frequency without changing their "name", so you have to find the RF channel for each station. In the NY area, all the stations under Channel 6 moved to higher frequencies, but still call themselves names such as "Fox5". In addition (this is old history), much of this change over was happening on 9/11 and many of the NY transmitters were lost, so the parent stations changed their frequencies temporarily.


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

*If* @MTVhike HAD read post #83, he would have found that repairs were completed with better than expected results.


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