# 2000 Navigator. What is this @%*@ noise?



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Have been driving for a week since the UCA and B joint repair. Perfect, no noise, steers great, perfect. Took my daughter to school (10 mile drive) drove to work, parked in the parking garage. Got a call around noon because my son was sick. It is a 10 mile in the opposite direction to his school. I said I would come get him. Went to the garage, put the Navigator in R and crunch, grind, dragging noise. I was, uh, pissed off.

Sat there a minute and said, ok, if it needs to be towed, I have to get it out of this garage. I backed up with it crunching, put it in D and no crunching. There was a knocking sound when I touched the brakes, but there was no resistence, pulling, etc.

I limped it out to the street, and pulled over. Got my flashlight, turned the wheel all the way to the left and looked at the UCA, B joint, tie rod, axle nut, everything I had worked on. Nothing. Everything was fine, nuts tight, cotter pins in place, nothing out of place or loose.

I made the decision to drive for a few blocks to see if it drove ok. It did, so I got on the interstate. It drove perfectly, no noise, nothing.

In stop and go traffic, the left front makes a light knocking sound when i hit the brakes. Braking, itself, is normal. No unusual pull or pedal feel. In reverse, though, it sounds like something is being ground up. I feel resistence, like if the parking brake is on. Crunching sound!

I can't do anything with it tonight. Place your bets! My guess is something is caught in the brake caliper.

You know, it is always some damn thing, I have found. :vs_mad:


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Is the crunching sound in reverse also from the left front? I'm just thinking out loud now. The calipers are supposed to float/slide on the two mounting bolts. The same bolts keep the pads in line. Maybe you missed something when you reassembled it.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Guap0_ said:


> Is the crunching sound in reverse also from the left front? I'm just thinking out loud now. The calipers are supposed to float/slide on the two mounting bolts. The same bolts keep the pads in line. Maybe you missed something when you reassembled it.


All the noise is fron the left front, where the B joint and UCA were replaced. I took the caliper off as a unit, just took the two 18mm bracket bolts off and hung the assembly on a hook. I never loosened the caliper pins. It is not a deep sound, more llike something dragging/getting hung up on something. 

Came on very sudden. No sound at all, then, back up and crunching and knocking. Knocking is not continuous. In drive, touch the brakes, a couple of light knocks then they stop. In reverse, crunching, feels like the parking brake is on, etc. Supposed to rain tomorrow. Great.

I will have to check it out/fix it in the autozone parking lot. Harbor Freight is a few stores down. Nice. Ghetto parking lot, fixing my car in the rain. I am not 25 anymore.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Does it have cv joints?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Nealtw said:


> Does it have cv joints?


Yep! Hard to imagine how a CV joint could produce such a noise, though. At highway speeds, or when driving forward at any speed, there is no noise at all. CV axle turns constantly. If it is bad it makes noise all the time. This is like I ran over something and it is caught in the brake caliper. It remnds me of the noise the Civic made when the plastic front debris deflector was dragging under the car. I will shoot a video tomorrow.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Bigplanz said:


> Yep! Hard to imagine how a CV joint could produce such a noise, though. At highway speeds, or when driving forward at any speed, there is no noise at all. CV axle turns constantly. If it is bad it makes noise all the time. This is like I ran over something and it is caught in the brake caliper. It remnds me of the noise the Civic made when the plastic front debris deflector was dragging under the car. I will shoot a video tomorrow.


 My son's mini van started to make noise and he drove it 50 miles home and it would not move once he got it in the driveway. we found 2 balls under the car. I guess the fell out when he took it out of gear,


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Nealtw said:


> My son's mini van started to make noise and he drove it 50 miles home and it would not move once he got it in the driveway. we found 2 balls under the car. I guess the fell out when he took it out of gear,


I looked briefly at the axle when I got under there with the flashligbt. Boot was good; nothing looked irregular. I am starting to think maybe the brake slider hardware fell out, but i didn't see any on the ground. They may have gotten dislodged and are wedged in the caliper and grinding on the brake pad when I put it in reverse. That is my working hypothesis, anyway.

It is always something stupid that bites you on the a$$.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Here is some experience from an old hand.

Check to see if the plastic inner fender well has somehow came loose, and is dragging when you are backing up.

It has happened to me, and like you scared the krap out of me. 

Don't :vs_laugh:, it does happen. 

You mentioned the brake calipers, sometimes the anti-rattle spring ( clip) will flip over, and let the pad flop around, and make noises too. 

Look at the inner fender well from underneath, and if it is dragging, it will have a fresh shiny rub mark, this can happen too if you have non-standard width tires, that are rubbing on turns. 


ED


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Maybe one of the brake pads got put back in wrong and is dragging on the inside of the wheel. In reverse it catches and drags, in forward it pushes the pad in. My Dodge can do this, there's sort of two ways to put the pad in and only one of them is right.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Look inside, back of rim to see if caliper is hitting rim. You will see scrapes on rim if this is happening.:vs_cool:


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

BigPlanz, I'm in my 60s & I still work in AutoZone parking lots. I'm not the only parking lot mechanic either. If you hung the caliper as a unit, it couldn't be what I suggested. Look at the bearings. Maybe something got into the outer wheel bearing.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

And the winner is...BB!

Brake caliper bracket bolt (top) fell out. In reverse he caliper would pivot back into the wheel, thus stopping truck. Nice.

I zip tied it back, just to get it home, then carefully drove to pull a part, zipped off three bracket bolts (two off an F-150), drove off the lot and put the bolt on in the rain by the side of the road. Advice: keep some yellow rain pants in the truck. No wet a$$ is a good thing.

I torqued both bolts to 60 ft pounds, which is the spec I found. You learn best from your mistakes. Here is a video.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm glad that it was simple repair. 

A little blue thread locker would have stopped that. 

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Don't even think about going anywhere but a salvage yard for a bolt like this. An auto parts store guy looks at you like you're a martian if you go in looking for anything like this. At pull a part, I went in and found three I could get off. Soaking wet, I went up to the counter, showed the girl my bolts, told her they are impossible to find anywhere else. She smiled and said no charge. I love me some pull a part!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Zip ties are almost as important as duct tape. A friend made a fan belt out of them to get the car home late one night.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Nealtw said:


> Zip ties are almost as important as duct tape. A friend made a fan belt out of them to get the car home late one night.


Let's don't forget a roll of "baling wire".

I once made a fanbelt from some, to get to town, on a long dusty arid road. 

Kept the waterpump and fan running good enough that the truck never overheated. 

ED


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Big, do your family a favor. Find an old 90s Civic, slavage or else. Don't matter. As far as it runs. Keep her as a spare. With what you have - gift, I recall - you need a running spare vehicle. I'd say, you easily fill 30 or more percent of posts here with continuous this and that going wrong with that Ford. As I wish you well. you and your family. No, it is not funny for **** like this to happen, operator fault or not. And by far it is not funny to drive on zip tied BRAKE caliper to pick up your sun and so on. 

Spend 2 grand, get a spare car. Better safe than sorry.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Big, do your family a favor. Find an old 90s Civic, slavage or else. Don't matter. As far as it runs. Keep her as a spare. With what you have - gift, I recall - you need a running spare vehicle. I'd say, you easily fill 30 or more percent of posts here with continuous this and that going wrong with that Ford. As I wish you well. you and your family. No, it is not funny for **** like this to happen, operator fault or not. And by far it is not funny to drive on zip tied BRAKE caliper to pick up your sun and so on.
> 
> Spend 2 grand, get a spare car. Better safe than sorry.


Oh believe me, I am quite aware of the seriousness of the matter. It isn't lost on me how dangerous it is to have a brake caliper bracket bolt FALL OUT because of a stupid error. Could have handled it better. Could have had it towed, rented a car. That would have been the "responsible" thing to do. Instead, I evaluated the situation, weighed my options, and made a decision. It worked out. I do not advise anyone else to do the same.

My story is intended to point out what happens when you make a mistake. My first real boss told me once, "You make mistakes, but you don't make the same one twice."

That's about the best I can hope for, I think.

Good idea on the cheap old beater. Pull a part actually sells used cars now. They are about a grand. Give me something to piss the neighbor's off with. They were giving me the fisheye with the yawning empty wheel well with a CV axle supported with a bungee cord parked on the street for a week.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

It's just that you said in your vid - That's funny.
Hey, I get it.
Grand for beater sounds about right. i bought 1991 Civic from a co worker for $250, after minor front accident. Was her daughter's. I drove her for a year, slow but steady, 38pmg solid. I donated her to a patient of mine, who had no means to go shopping for a larger load otherwise, as he coul carry only like one bag of groceries at a time. He taught both his daughters how to drive with that car, then gave her to his friend. She probably is still chugging along. Old Civic, old Mazda 3, old GEO, old Mitsubishi... any one of those will do.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> It's just that you said in your vid - That's funny.
> Hey, I get it.
> Grand for beater sounds about right. i bought 1991 Civic from a co worker for $250, after minor front accident. Was her daughter's. I drove her for a year, slow but steady, 38pmg solid. I donated her to a patient of mine, who had no means to go shopping for a larger load otherwise, as he coul carry only like one bag of groceries at a time. He taught both his daughters how to drive with that car, then gave her to his friend. She probably is still chugging along. Old Civic, old Mazda 3, old GEO, old Mitsubishi... any one of those will do.


One of the ways I use the word "funny" is translated as "what an effing moron." Like, in this instance.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

:vs_cool:


Just get a beater. That Ford will keep feeding you with all kinds of "funny" situations. :vs_mad:


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

j​


ukrkoz said:


> :vs_cool:
> 
> 
> Just get a beater. That Ford will keep feeding you with all kinds of "funny" situations. :vs_mad:


Here is a other example of "Funny" in the above sense. The actual torque spec on the brake caliper bracket bolts is 136 ft. Lbs not 60.. See, isn't that "funny"?

I am sure I will have a good laugh about it tomorrow when I retorque the bolts AGAIN. Maybe I should just change my interests to the knitting forum or something.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Hopefully, my last video on this. Threadlocker, torque wrench, the caliper bracket should be secure now. Check out the shiny spot where the caliper was dragging on the inside of the wheel! Nice!


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Oh, that's funny.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Bigplanz said:


> j​
> Here is a other example of "Funny" in the above sense. The actual torque spec on the brake caliper bracket bolts is 136 ft. Lbs not 60.. See, isn't that "funny"?
> 
> I am sure I will have a good laugh about it tomorrow when I retorque the bolts AGAIN. *Maybe I should just change my interests to the knitting forum or something.[*/QUOTE]
> ...


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The saga continues... I Really appreciate BP sharing his experiences with the Navigator. It's good entertainment and a chance to learn something... but I am glad it is BP going through all this and not me!


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Bigplanz said:
> 
> 
> > j​
> ...


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I hear you... me too. I have a friend at work with a Honda del Sol that we take to lunch some days. Almost impossible for me to get out of that thing... but I have no problem with my Vette as long as it isn't first thing in the morning.



Bigplanz said:


> ukrkoz said:
> 
> 
> > I have bad knees and arthritis in my back. It was like climbing out of a hole. No likey driving a go cart.
> ...


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