# Trouble Removing Outlet Box



## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

If that is a plastic box, it is probably nailed to the stud.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_39499-53911-B122A-UPC_0__?productId=3585814&Ntt=


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

Likely you are coverting from a duplex receptacle (which is single-gang and fits in the box shown) to a quad receptacel (which requires a double-gang box). Regardless, you say you want to get the box out, so...

That is a "new work" box, installed during new construction before the walls are up. It is attached to the stud via nails on a mounting flange that is located outsdie the enclosed volume of the box, like this:
http://0.tqn.com/y/homerenovations/1/S/5/X/-/-/New-Work-Metal-Box.JPG

To remove it and install a double-gang box, you need to cut the mounting flange with a metal-cutting blade. You can probably cut away a sliver of plaster/drywall on the stud side of the box and see the flange. The easiest way to cut the flange is with a hacksaw blade on a reciprocating saw. It can be done by hand, too, but it will take much longer.

EDIT, if the box is plastic as above post postulates, it is likely nailed as shown, but the same method applies to cutting the nails.

Once you've got the old box out, feed the cable out the back, enlarge the hole in the wall, and install an old work double-gang box. This uses screw-down wings that hold the box to the back of the wall.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Find the side of the box that is nailed to the framing. Slide a hacksaw blade between the box and the framing to cut the nails.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It's a plastic box. Smash it and get a new one. Put a screwdriver or a chisel against the back of the box and hit with hammer, breaking box into pieces. Then get an old work box an install it in the hole.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Turn the power off before doing any of the above suggestions.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You could cut the 2 gang hole and pry the nails out of the stud using a pair of diagonal cutters.


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## rs1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the replies. Using a hack saw blade and a lot of cursing I was finally able to get the old box out and the new one in. JKeefe you were right, I am converting from a duplex receptacle to a quad. I thought that I might have had that terminology wrong 

I have a couple of followup questions. The new box is held into place by two flanges located at diagonal corners which you tighten with screws. I don't entirely understand the mechanics of it but somehow they tighten against the back of the drywall. Anyway, the one that's not on the stud side works fine and tightens right up. But the one on the stud side doesn't do anything. The screw turns forever. The results is that the box is nice and snug on the lower left hand side but it's pretty loose on the top right (stud side). Is this normal? Overall, it's probably not going anywhere, but should I care? Is there something I did wrong?

Thanks in advance!


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## rs1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

rs1971 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. Using a hack saw blade and a lot of cursing I was finally able to get the old box out and the new one in. JKeefe you were right, I am converting from a duplex receptacle to a quad. I thought that I might have had that terminology wrong
> 
> I have a couple of followup questions. The new box is held into place by two flanges located at diagonal corners which you tighten with screws. I don't entirely understand the mechanics of it but somehow they tighten against the back of the drywall. Anyway, the one that's not on the stud side works fine and tightens right up. But the one on the stud side doesn't do anything. The screw turns forever. The results is that the box is nice and snug on the lower left hand side but it's pretty loose on the top right (stud side). Is this normal? Overall, it's probably not going anywhere, but should I care? Is there something I did wrong?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Okay, so forget about that silly question. I took the box back out of the wall to play with it and see how it works and now I understand. The 'wing' piece sets itself parallel to the side of the box so the stud doesn't make any difference. I think that I just didn't screw long enough. Eventually it would have snugged up. Anyhow, in the process of removing the box I managed to drop one of the wings down inside the wall so it's back to Home Depot tomorrow


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

brric said:


> View attachment 95338
> Find the side of the box that is nailed to the framing. Slide a hacksaw blade between the box and the framing to cut the nails.


Better way IMO. Break the box with a hammer and screw driver, then when the plastic pieces are hanging on by the nail, stick some lineman's pliers in around the nails wiggling them while gently pulling out. It takes hand eye coordination but very doable.


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## ritelec (Aug 30, 2009)

JKeefe said:


> , enlarge the hole in the wall, and install an old work double-gang box. This uses screw-down wings that hold the box to the back of the wall.


I think the op has already accomplished his project but as a note at times I cut the two gang hole first so I have an opening and the room to pry or cut things to remove the existing box.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Those gray plastic boxes hold up pretty well to direct hammer hits. Easier to cut the bigger hole and pull the nails.

To OP, they make old work boxes that screw to the side of the stud. Smartbox and Arlington both make them. Perfect for your usage. With a two gang hole you should be able to reach your hand in a grab the wing.


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## busman (Nov 7, 2008)

I just use a Sawzall and cut the nails.

Mark


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## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

busman said:


> I just use a Sawzall and cut the nails.
> 
> Mark


I am not a contractor, just a hobbyist. Several years ago, I bought a recip saw from HF. For occasional use, it has held up well. :thumbsup: And cheap too.


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

rs1971 said:


> I managed to drop one of the wings down inside the wall so it's back to Home Depot tomorrow


When you don't know how the wings work, that's easy to do. Now that you understand the mechanism, that won't happen again. Yay learning.


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## rs1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay, this will hopefully be my last question but I just want a sanity check on the wiring as there is only one set of wires coming out of wall (I guess that means that this is the last outlet on the circuit?) and I couldn't find any tutorials that addressed that situation explicitly. Here's what I intend to do:

(1) Ground out of wall onto green screw in duplex A
(2) White wire out of wall onto top silver screw on left hand side of duplex A
(3) Black wire out of wall onto top brass screw on right hand side of duplex A

(4) 4" jumper from green screw on duplex A to green screw on duplex B
(5) 4" jumper from bottom silver screw on duplex A to top silver screw on duplex B
(6) 4" jumper from bottom brass screw on duplex A to top brass screw on duplex B

That should do it, right?

Thanks!


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

Jim Port said:


> Those gray plastic boxes hold up pretty well to direct hammer hits. Easier to cut the bigger hole and pull the nails.
> 
> To OP, they make old work boxes that screw to the side of the stud. Smartbox and Arlington both make them. Perfect for your usage. With a two gang hole you should be able to reach your hand in a grab the wing.


 Plus, if you're not very careful with the saw you could nick the wires.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Only one wire per screw. You will need to pigtails the grounds together and to both receptacles.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

rs1971 said:


> Okay, this will hopefully be my last question but I just want a sanity check on the wiring as there is only one set of wires coming out of wall (I guess that means that this is the last outlet on the circuit?) and I couldn't find any tutorials that addressed that situation explicitly. Here's what I intend to do:
> 
> (1) Ground out of wall onto green screw in duplex A
> (2) White wire out of wall onto top silver screw on left hand side of duplex A
> ...


That's fine theoretically....but practically.... that ground screw should not carry two separate wires (ground and jumper).... another way would be to pigtail from your feed to each recep.


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## rs1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> That's fine....


Thanks! Unfortunately, it turns out that I wasn't able to fit both ground wires under the ground screw on duplex A. So I guess that I can just cut an extra piece of ground wire and pigtail it (along with the one I already cut) to the one coming out of the wall? Then I have a separate wire for each duplex. Yes?

Thanks.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Yeppers:thumbsup:


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## rs1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay, so the good news is it's done and works. The bad news is that having stepped back and looked at it, I realize that it's about 15 degrees off of level. Obviously I should have checked the level before I secured the box and did the wiring but it didn't occur to me. For the moment I will probably live with it, but I see it driving me nuts every time I look at it and at some point I'm going to have to do it all over again. 

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the great advice!


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

RS..... Don't know how tight you cut in your remodel box.... but between loosening your remodel box ears and tilting it back toward vertical.... and loosening your receptical screws and tilting them also.... you might easily get your face plate to sit vertical....

Good luck.....


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