# ethanol free gas



## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

I kept seeing advice online to use ethanol free gas in small engines, so a couple years ago asked a friend who owns a lawn equipment dealership as well as two other buddies who are small engine mechanics, and they all concurred; they were very adamant about using non-ethanol gas in small engines. Here is a link to a site that lists ethanol free dealers: www.pure-gas.org.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks Dexter, that is basically what I have heard. Strange that all of a sudden "ethanol free" has suddenly shown up everywhere around here. Probably a case that one of the distributors has decided to bring it into this area.

I'm assuming that one of the stabilizers would still be good for anything unused over the winter. 

Bud


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Bud, non ethanol gas isn't that expensive considering you aren't filling up your car's/truck's tank. I'm thinking I pay about 40¢ more for pure gas but I only get a few gallons at a time [or less] so IMO it's not a big deal.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Just paid an extra $1.35 per gallon for non ethanol yesterday. Usually about $.90 higher.

I estimate I purchase about 75 gallons per year between the mower, hand helds and snowblowers.

For the limited gallons purchased over the course of a year, I think the price differential is worth it.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Any leftover gas at the the end of the season just dump it in your car or truck, it's not worth saving.
A whole lot cheaper to just add the additive then paying for non ethanol.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

joecaption said:


> Any leftover gas at the the end of the season just dump it in your car or truck, it's not worth saving.
> A whole lot cheaper to just add the additive then paying for non ethanol.


It is not just a matter of stabilizing the gas, pure gas is much better for a small engine. It does not eat up the rubber parts like ethanol does.

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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Joe, if I keep nothing but ethanol free gas around then I don't have to worry about "did I or didn't I add the Sta-bil".


@rj, I have always thought the stabilizer canceled the effects of the ethanol of rubber parts, sounds like I was wrong.


Now a related issue.
Just searched "winter blend vs summer blend" and it maybe another one of my problems. They were talking about RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) which relates to how easily the gas vaporizes at different temperatures. To make winter starts easier they want a higher RVP to allow gas to evaporate more easily at low temperatures. One of my habits for my generator is to filler up and test it at end of summer, nice and warm. Then when I need it it is blistering cold and difficult to start.

Question, will the ethanol free gas figure into this summer vs winter blend issue or is there an additive I can use to help whatever gas I have in there evaporate faster to improve starting?

Or am I over thinking this?

Bud


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

I have 2 mowers about 14yo. Riding and push. I have Stihl combi unit. Quite a few years old. All run on regular gasohol just fine. Ever so often, I run Seafom through them, but that's about it. 

I have 60'' ZTR that has Vtwin, does same. 

If you expect carburated - and likely quite few years on them - devices to behave like a modern fuel injected car at start up, maybe you should review your expectations. 

Generator.. I just been through this. I actually test ran mine last summer but week ago, during outage, it refused to start. So take air filter cover off, remove air filter, put choke so that throttle is open, squirt brake cleaner or carb cleaner into intake, close choke, pull handle. Boom, started right away and thereafter, started every time for 3 days.
Just saying. I do NOT believe that stupid manufacturers continue making machines not suited for gasohol, with its absolute dominance on the market. Most of the time, it is related to regular maintenance issues.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

ukrkoz said:


> I have 2 mowers about 14yo. Riding and push. I have Stihl combi unit. Quite a few years old. All run on regular gasohol just fine. Ever so often, I run Seafom through them, but that's about it.
> 
> I have 60'' ZTR that has Vtwin, does same.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree. Not all states require ethanol so doubt mfgs would compromise their product performance to ensure they work with a product that politically may be here today but gone tomorrow.

As for your generator starting up so easily, try that at -10°, I did and ended up in the hospital with a torn shoulder muscle. Even adding electric start didn't solve the starting problem. 

My FS85 Stihl weed wacker is hanging in the garage waiting for its 3rd carburetor. I gave up 2 years ago and bought a nice corded machine and it has never failed to start. This summer I will get it going again and with regular fuel I bet it will run for years like the ones I see the commercial lawn care businesses using.

No, it isn't an issue of regular maintenance, ethanol just sucks.

Bud


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## rooster4321 (Feb 25, 2018)

Where do you get gas $1. 35 a gallon

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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Ya, me too . But he said "an extra $1.35 per gallon".

Bud


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## rooster4321 (Feb 25, 2018)

Oooh missed that

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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

There's so much controversy and opposing views on the ethanol gas subject it's ridiculous. One site says alcohol increases octane and another site says it makes engines run hotter and may make your engine over heat. The vintage care restore people contend it is detrimental to rubber seals, O rings and gaskets. Those engines probably are worse about setting idle more than all small gas engines combined. I've pumped enough methanol in my life to know methanol doesn't effect Buna-N O rings any more than hi-test gasoline. Maybe 1 molecule does make a difference but I have my doubts. 

Then there is those that say it attracts water from the atmospheric air. Well, maybe it does some, so quit leaving it in the gas tank for extended periods of time. I'm betting the lawn service business people that use it regularly don't have that problem. The only thing for sure in all the publicized crap that is for certain it has less energy as can be seen on a dynamometer.


I personally won't be driving all over trying to locate regular gas even though there are sites that supposedly tell us their location. Hell, some of those site locations haven't been updated for years.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Once you start using non ethanol gas you get to know where most of the local stations are that sell it. I've never went driving to find a place that sold non ethanol. If act I rarely make a special trip to buy it but get it on my way to/from somewhere.


I don't use non ethanol in my mower but pure gas is all I use in my weedeater, leaf blower and chainsaws.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Not all states require ethanol so doubt mfgs would compromise their product performance to ensure they work with a product that politically may be here today but gone tomorrow.


What level of ethanol are you talking about ?

There is enough E10 around nation wide that any new equipment should be E10 safe. 

Anything marked as CARB compliant definitely will be. It’s lower emission equipment that is definitely designed for E10 use.

Here, I have to buy either racing fuel or aviation gas to get E0 fuel. Neither is legal for road use. 
It’s that, or you are buying Trufuel (or similar) at outrageous prices.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

a *Quick search* says only 7 states require E10.

Bud

PS, we have E10 here and at one point there was talk about E15


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I wouldn’t trust that source. First it is 2015.

Secondly, it does not show California mandating ethanol. That may be true,but we require oxygenated fuel. Since we banned MTBE, E fuel is the only practical choice. 

Initially we limited it to 5.7%. In 2010, the limit was raised to 10% as an oxygenate. The exact amount can vary, especially between summer and winter blends, but all the pumps are labeled as E10.

It makes me wonder how many other states may not “mandate” E10, but actually use it (or a lessor amount) on a daily basis.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Tried searching again but didn't do much better. This 2018 map was the best I could find.
https://www.afpm.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Our_Members/What_We_Make/Fuels/US-Gasoline-Requirements-Map%20Jan2018.pdf

Bud


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

New small-engine tools should work fine on **fresh E-10, because by now any manufacturer should be aware of the issue and make their product compatible.

Old yard tools are a crapshoot; when the factory assembled it twenty years ago they used (for example) a gasoline-safe fuel line. They didn't ask the supplier if that fuel line was also safe for ethanol, why would they have? So some are, some are not. Ditto the carb, the primer bulb, seals, etc. The fuel line on my old Craftsman 1990 mower turned into a black sticky jello-like substance.

On old cars you should stay away from it for the same reasons, it's a crapshoot. The worst are the early fuel injected engines, starting early 80's, because they have so many parts that touch the fuel, from the in-tank pump, to the filter, the regulator, the pulsation damper, injectors, all the seals on the lines, the low-pressure returns, etc. Ditto the plain steel fuel tank and plain steel lines and fuel rail. Ditto the aluminum parts. Ditto aluminum or pot metal carburetors. Search the internet for pictures of aluminum and pot metal parts caked up with white residue from E-10. Even pure ethanol is slightly corrosive on aluminum.

**Fresh E-10! E-10 gasoline does not keep well, in only three months it can break down because the ethanol is hydrophilic, it pulls water out of the atmosphere and into solution and then when temperature or pressure changes, the water goes out of solution and gathers at the bottom of the tank. That causes rust in plain steel parts.

No matter how old or new your vehicle or tools are, you should not leave E-10 in them over the winter, or for more than three months. Why? Crapshoot.


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