# W 7



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

And then turn off updates.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Have you not be doing regular updates previously?

Microsoft sent out the last security updates on January 14 of this year which was the last day of support for that OS.


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

I'm running Windows 7.
Last update I received was on 6/20/20.......the EDGE update.
Prior to that I received an update on 5/14/20.

Didn't receive anything on 8/6/20.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

JIMMIEM said:


> I'm running Windows 7.
> Last update I received was on 6/20/20.......the EDGE update.
> Prior to that I received an update on 5/14/20.
> 
> Didn't receive anything on 8/6/20.


I did. It said it was a critical update. Despite what Microsoft says, they even still send out updates for XP.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Drachenfire said:


> Have you not be doing regular updates previously?
> 
> Microsoft sent out the last security updates on January 14 of this year which was the last day of support for that OS.


No, the updates on "patch Tuesday" have been a mess for years. They sent out one about three years ago that blocked a bunch of people out of the computers, It took them almost two weeks to fix it. Microsoft has sent out numerous flawed updates through the years going back as far as 3.0. Then it got worse with 95, 97 and 98. 2000 was a total disaster and so was Millenium. They even sent out some with the best one they had, XP. Many financial institutions still use XP.
I have always waited a couple weeks to see if there was a flaw in an update before I added it.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Went back and looked, there were 4 updates that day.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

rusty baker said:


> Then it got worse with 95, 97 and 98. 2000 was a total disaster and so was Millenium.


I beg to differ. I have been in IT since before DOS. While Microsoft have had some duds, Win 98SE (Second Edition), Win 2000 and XP were among the most stable they have ever put out.

I am convinced ME, Vista and 8 were nothing more than Beta versions unleashed on an unwitting public and used to real world test in preparation for the subsequent versions that followed each. It would not have been so bad had Microsoft not made people pay for these abominably bad operating systems. 

I know people who were so frustrated with the ME version that came with their brand new computer that they replaced it with the older and much more stable 98SE.



rusty baker said:


> Went back and looked, there were 4 updates that day.


Interesting.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Drachenfire said:


> I beg to differ. I have been in IT since before DOS. While Microsoft have had some duds, Win 98SE (Second Edition), Win 2000 and XP were among the most stable they have ever put out.
> 
> I am convinced ME, Vista and 8 were nothing more than Beta versions unleashed on an unwitting public and used to real world test in preparation for the subsequent versions that followed each. It would not have been so bad had Microsoft not made people pay for these abominably bad operating systems.
> 
> ...


What I said was they have had bad updates with every one.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

In Win7, MS has been keeping Windows Defender Antivirus up to date as well as Updates to MS Office 2010 to current versions. Next scheduled update is Tuesday 8/11 1pm for paying customers under ESU program.

There were some patches since 7/14 (last security,monthly rollup and .NET).
At least 56 patches to Office 2010. None to Win7 program itself unless in ESU program.

Sometimes MS will unhide updates you previously chose not to install. Sneaky. 

I keep running Never10 program to be sure of no forced update to Win10.
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

rusty baker said:


> What I said was they have had bad updates with every one.


In the course of my career, I have deployed and maintained thousands of Win OS based systems. I cannot recall ever having any issues with the updates. This could possibly be because they were always manually installed as opposed to the automatic downloads most people use.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Drachenfire said:


> In the course of my career, I have deployed and maintained thousands of Win OS based systems. I cannot recall ever having any issues with the updates. This could possibly be because they were always manually installed as opposed to the automatic downloads most people use.


It is common knowledge that they have had many flawed updates.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

rusty baker said:


> It is common knowledge that they have had many flawed updates.


Just relaying my own experience...


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

diyorpay said:


> In Win7, MS has been keeping Windows Defender Antivirus up to date as well as Updates to MS Office 2010 to current versions. Next scheduled update is Tuesday 8/11 1pm for paying customers under ESU program.
> 
> There were some patches since 7/14 (last security,monthly rollup and .NET).
> At least 56 patches to Office 2010. None to Win7 program itself unless in ESU program.
> ...


Yes, I had updates turned off and they installed these anyway.


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## TRI0N (Aug 9, 2020)

rusty baker said:


> Yes, I had updates turned off and they installed these anyway.


Look at your update history and see what was updated if you can.

What exactly is messed up? If any you are getting an update for is because of a possible Microsoft Driver having a serious security threat otherwise you don't get OS updates as of January 14, 2020. Could have been a 3rd Party Driver that is bundled with Microsoft just as video adapter, network adapter, sound etc. 


Cheers!

TRI0N :vs_cool:


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

Drachenfire said:


> I beg to differ. I have been in IT since before DOS. While Microsoft have had some duds, Win 98SE (Second Edition), Win 2000 and XP were among the most stable they have ever put out.
> 
> I am convinced ME, Vista and 8 were nothing more than Beta versions unleashed on an unwitting public and used to real world test in preparation for the subsequent versions that followed each. It would not have been so bad had Microsoft not made people pay for these abominably bad operating systems.
> 
> ...


What was there before DOS? I just remember Mainframe stuff...or is that what you were referring to?


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## TRI0N (Aug 9, 2020)

JIMMIEM said:


> What was there before DOS? I just remember Mainframe stuff...or is that what you were referring to?


There was PC-DOS and CP/M they even had computers that booted into Basic. 


Cheers!

TRI0N :vs_cool:


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I had a Commodore 128 with 5 1/4 inch floppy which ran CP/M.










When I went to work for the bank, we used an IBM 4300 mainframe running CICS software.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Drachenfire said:


> I had a Commodore 128 with 5 1/4 inch floppy which ran CP/M.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used punch cards to run BASIC programs on mainframes in college.

Then I got a VIC-20 then a C-64 with a cassette tape drive

Went to a Franklin (Apple clone) after that.

Then I got a job where the company gave me a KayPro to use.

Those were the days.
.
.


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## TRI0N (Aug 9, 2020)

Drachenfire said:


> I had a Commodore 128 with 5 1/4 inch floppy which ran CP/M.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LoL I use to have one of those (even had the Vic-20 with Cassette Tape Drive and before that the TIMEX Sinclair 1000).

The Commodore 128 also booted to Basic as default.


Cheers!

TRI0N :vs_cool:


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

TRI0N said:


> Look at your update history and see what was updated if you can.
> 
> What exactly is messed up? If any you are getting an update for is because of a possible Microsoft Driver having a serious security threat otherwise you don't get OS updates as of January 14, 2020. Could have been a 3rd Party Driver that is bundled with Microsoft just as video adapter, network adapter, sound etc.
> 
> ...


After the updates, the computer ran so slow that I would get timed out before getting into some sites. I checked my internet speed for 3 days before I decided that was not the problem. When I found that updates had been added without my permission, I did a system restore to the day before the updates and it fixed the problem. There have been some 30 updates since they supposedly stopped updating.
A friend is still using XP on one computer because of an old photo scanner that he likes and he still gets updates.


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## TRI0N (Aug 9, 2020)

rusty baker said:


> After the updates, the computer ran so slow that I would get timed out before getting into some sites. I checked my internet speed for 3 days before I decided that was not the problem. When I found that updates had been added without my permission, I did a system restore to the day before the updates and it fixed the problem. There have been some 30 updates since they supposedly stopped updating.


Sounds like the Edge Update caused it to me... Make sure you have Auto-Update turned off completely and make a fresh image backup of your current running state.


Cheers!

TRI0N :vs_cool:


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

ZZZZZ said:


> I used punch cards to run BASIC programs on mainframes in college.
> 
> Then I got a VIC-20 then a C-64 with a cassette tape drive
> 
> ...


I had a C-64. Wish I still had it.


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## JIMMIEM (Nov 17, 2016)

Somebody mentioned XP. I have an old PC that still has XP on it. I would like to switch my main PC from WIN 7 back to XP. I have the XP disc but what about all the updates?


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

For many Win10 'machines' the new version of Edge was a forced upgrade. It is integrated into the operating system and any older machines are seeing a real negative impact in response and speed.

MS did this before and were sued about browser integration but that was before net neutrality went out the window.

It is a blatant attempt to have people give up on older equipment and buy new.
Our choices are to do that or move to a version of linux. What an opportunity exists for another (open source) company to step in and steal all MS customers!
There are millions of dissatisfied customers with no where to turn.

Zaxon worked really well on my Commodore 64 but that was after a 25 minute load from a cassette. Even typed in Space Invaders in machine language copied from a Commodore fan magazine. Those were the days.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

This is the slowest site that I ever post on. Probably because it is so ad bloated.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

JIMMIEM said:


> Somebody mentioned XP. I have an old PC that still has XP on it. I would like to switch my main PC from WIN 7 back to XP. I have the XP disc but what about all the updates?


unlikely to find xp drivers for it unless it's over 8 years old.


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## HandyAndyInNC (Jun 4, 2018)

Let me ask you this:
Why are you installing updates? Why do you feel you need them?

You do not have to, or even need to. Once you build the OS, and it is running the way you want, and running the apps you use. Leave it alone. Turn off everything that does everything that will do things "Automatically" for you. Unless it is a scheduled job for maintenance that you have setup. You should never allow anything to install any software "automatically". No matter who it is from. But you do need to maintain your computer's hardware and software.

I still have a laptop that I installed Windows 2000 Server, in 2001. It is still running nice and efficient, for the size processor and amount of memory it has. The only things I have done, it to replace the hard drive with a faster spindle speed drive. I use it to code DTS Packages in SQL 7 and SQL 2000. One would be surprised who still uses old software and old hardware. Mostly the larger companies and all of the government systems. Why, because those server are still processing data just way they needed them to. And because of cost. A company would not be able to make money if they changed the server and workstations OS as often as you.

And for most of you. Yes, there were many OS's and computers available in the 1950's and 1960's. I wrote my first computer program in 1968. I was 6 years old at the time. Most things used/tried today have already been used/attempted long ago. Like "cloud" storage and computing. Does anyone know what that actually means? You are paying for time of usage and storage on someone else's computer. Same idea of paying for a public storage unit. You pay for a certain amount of space, for a certain amount of time. You may put anything you like in that storage unit. That is it. No big secret. That is been going on for decades.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

HandyAndyInNC said:


> Let me ask you this:
> Why are you installing updates? Why do you feel you need them?
> 
> You do not have to, or even need to. Once you build the OS, and it is running the way you want, and running the apps you use. Leave it alone. Turn off everything that does everything that will do things "Automatically" for you. Unless it is a scheduled job for maintenance that you have setup. You should never allow anything to install any software "automatically". No matter who it is from. But you do need to maintain your computer's hardware and software.
> ...


Many people don't realize that most financial institutions are still running XP and refuse to change. Microsoft still provides security updates to them.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't they have to pay Microsoft for its efforts?


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

huesmann said:


> Don't they have to pay Microsoft for its efforts?


Probably, but it is cheaper than changing systems. Back when W7 came out, a local grocery chain updated their system. It cost them $10,000 per register plus
more than $100,000 to do the maim terminal.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

But does Joe Blow, who doesn't pay Microsoft, also get to take advantage of the XP updates Microsoft is still putting out for paying customers?


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

huesmann said:


> But does Joe Blow, who doesn't pay Microsoft, also get to take advantage of the XP updates Microsoft is still putting out for paying customers?


If they know how.


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## KaseyW (Nov 23, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> This is the slowest site that I ever post on. Probably because it is so ad bloated.


Uh ... what ads? I may be outing myself, but I use Adblock Plus (free) on Chrome and I've never seen any ads here.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

KaseyW said:


> Uh ... what ads? I may be outing myself, but I use Adblock Plus (free) on Chrome and I've never seen any ads here.


Adblock blocks me out of a couple sites I need to visit. Like on line classes.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

^you just need to disable it on the pages which aren't viewable with it on.


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## KaseyW (Nov 23, 2012)

rusty baker said:


> Adblock blocks me out of a couple sites I need to visit. Like on line classes.


I don't thinks Adblock can block actual sites, but there are some sites that won't give you access when they detect that an ad blocker is active. If you use Chrome, to disable Adblock, right-click on the red stop sign in the upper right corner of the window and, in the pop-up, chose Options.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Chrome and Firefox neither one support the site that most colleges use for on line classes.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

KaseyW said:


> I don't thinks Adblock can block actual sites, but there are some sites that won't give you access when they detect that an ad blocker is active. If you use Chrome, to disable Adblock, right-click on the red stop sign in the upper right corner of the window and, in the pop-up, chose Options.


This has been explained to rb for years now and he still says that choosing which sites to block ads on or not doesn't work in his world. 

I always try to help if I can but I gave up on this one.lain:


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

RUSTY WAS RIGHT!!!

Very respected Steve Gibson generally has been supportive of Microsoft but over the years has stayed at least one major release behind the current.

He has changed his opinion...

Attached is link to notes for Tuesday's podcast. See last section but there are other relevant parts at the beginning. Very disturbing!

https://www.grc.com/sn/SN-780-Notes.pdf

Stand alone patches for IE11:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=4571687


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Despite what they say, MS sent out security updates for W7 this week.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

You are correct. I've listed mine below.
There were many for MS Office 2010.
There was Windows Defender Virus updates (regular throughout the month).
There were .NET framework updates (if you require them for your programs).
But there was also the Security Rollup for January 2021 (all security updates in one large file). This is the important one.
We are lucky we got them all.


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