# Four coats (2 Kilz Original AND 2 Zinsser BIN)



## chrisn

One, count it, one (1) coat of Bin should be all you need, use 2 if you feel the need, skip the Kilz completely.


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## RobRochester

I should add one thing. I have a reason for proposing that I use both Zinsser BIN and Kilz Original: I fear that on some hot humid day the sealer might soften and release some odor. I need it to be foolproof, even in humidity.

But then again, if one sealer softens I wonder if that might also compromise the other (???) if I used both.

Chrisn -- Thank-you for your input. I'm really bothered by the urine odor, and I appreciate your advice!


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## Brushjockey

Bin will do it. But soak it good. Agree with chris, skip the oil, but if you already have done it, it will be no problem.


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## Bud Cline

> I fear that on some hot humid day the sealer might soften and release some odor.


You are probably correct about that.

The paints will only try to seal and mask the odor. You would be better off first using an enzyme type dog and cat urine eliminator/cleaner. Pour it on the areas and let it work into the grains eradicating the source of the odor as it drys. The enzymes will literally eat the bacteria that is in cat urine. Then paint over it if that's what you want to do but there wouldn't be any need to paint after the enzymes were used.

You can buy the product at any major pet supply and even some plant nurseries that also deal with pet supplies. The big box stores probably also sell the product.

If you aren't sure exactly where the urine is use a black light to detect the locations to be treated.

White vinegar mixed in warm water will also clean up some urine deposits. It just depends if the cat was actually urinating or simply marking its territory. They are apparently two different types of odor.


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## hammerheart14

chrisn said:


> One, count it, one (1) coat of Bin should be all you need, use 2 if you feel the need, skip the Kilz completely.


this man speaks truth. HOMEOWNERS TAKE NOTES!!! BIN is superior to KILZ in everywhere as far as stain/smell blocking is concerned. Usually, one coat and you are done. In extreme situations you could use two coats of it. Kilz is much cheaper now than BIN , due to the shellac beetle not producing enough bug juice (that's what shellac is, bug juice mixed with denatured alcohol.)So right now, you can find KILZ for twenty bucks, but BIN is around 50 bucks due to the shortage. But guess what, BIN is worth every penny you pay, cause it does a much better job. If you were to put Kilz over BIN, that would just be a major waste of money.


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## aandre

I've used two coats of the BIN and the smell is still horrific. Now what?


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## hammerheart14

If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.


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## hammerheart14

P.S. It takes KILZ around one to two weeks to completely dry and harden. With BIN it's overnight MAX. I hope you waited at LEAST A week before you put the BIN over the KILZ. Also, your money and time was wasted with the KILZ. All you need was one, TWO coats of the BIN, max. In the future, when you have a similar problem with stain, smell, just use the BIN by itself, one coat, maybe two on the worst areas. It's a much better product, EVEN IF it's 15 dollars more a gallon than KILZ.


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## aandre

hammerheart14 said:


> If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.


Thanks. It's a hall and I've coated everything from wall to wall including corners and where floor meets walls. I've even made sure to paint in all directions to jam the BIN in btween all the little particles. I'm stumped. Could there be anything else I,m overlooking?


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## Brushjockey

Aandre - somehow the smell is coming from something not directly sealed by the BIN. maybe in the walls, under the floorboards etc. 
Killing bad odor is not an easy task. Have you tried the black light trick? 
( I haven't either- but I haven't had that bad of a problem to fix either)


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## aandre

hammerheart14 said:


> If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.


*HELP! 4 Coats of Zinsser BIN and Urine Still Atrocious!*

I didn't use the Kilz. I ripped up carpet and padding, removed tack strips, and coated the subflooring (looks like particle board with giant particles) with two coats of Zinsser BIN primer and then two coats of Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat 100% wax-free shellac and when you get down to check the smell, it smells like a fresh urine stain. Ugh. I even made sure to soak cracks (moving brush in all directions to get in between all the "particles") and coated base boards with shellac. Scared to lay down new flooring. I didn't know to try the enzymes before I painted. So that's too late. Struggling single mom who doessn't have the bucks, the know-how, or the strength to repace subflooring. WHAT TO DO?! Thanks for responding.


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## aandre

There are a couple of tiny holes here and there (less than a cemtimeter) where the particle board comes together. I dowsed the seams and tried to jam some BIN through the tiny holes. This is an upstairs room. Pouring enzyme stuff in those holes would ruin the ceiling below, right? And, are you saying that if the urine got under the subflooring I'm screwed because there's no way to coat that. I'm a single mom and replacing the subflooring isn't an option (cost/lack of know-how & physical strength). How is the smell getting around the 4 layers of Zinsser. If you put your nose right on the floor, it smells like its the top of the floor itself that has the smell. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


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## aandre

Brushjockey said:


> Aandre - somehow the smell is coming from something not directly sealed by the BIN. maybe in the walls, under the floorboards etc.
> Killing bad odor is not an easy task. Have you tried the black light trick?
> ( I haven't either- but I haven't had that bad of a problem to fix either)


There are a couple of tiny holes here and there (less than a cemtimeter) where the particle board comes together. I dowsed the seams and tried to jam some BIN through the tiny holes. This is an upstairs room. Pouring enzyme stuff in those holes would ruin the ceiling below, right? And, are you saying that if the urine got under the subflooring I'm screwed because there's no way to coat that. I'm a single mom and replacing the subflooring isn't an option (cost/lack of know-how & physical strength). How is the smell getting around the 4 layers of Zinsser. If you put your nose right on the floor, it smells like its the top of the floor itself that has the smell. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


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## ratherbefishin'

aandre, I understand your anxiety, but posting repeatedly in multiple threads won't get better answers. Please stick with one. No offense intended.
First, put a fan on your floor at least overnight and let's make sure it's urine you're smelling and not residual fumes from the denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol, the solvent in which the shellac is dissolved, is simply ethanol mixed with a little methanol and a strong odorant to discourage winos and frat boys from drinking it. You might also want to find an extra nose or two in the morning to help identify what you're actually smelling.

If, in fact, it still smells of urine tomorrow, my guess is that the OSB (oriented strand board) was still wet when you applied the shellac. Urine gives off ammonia as the urea decomposes, and ammonia dissolves shellac. Given the number of coats you've used, though, I doubt this is the case.

SealCoat is not designed for this, it's a sanding sealer for woodwork finishing. BIN is the right product. You've only added a little clear shellac over the pigmented.

Be patient, try the fan, and let's take it from there.:wink:


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## Mr. Paint

I agree on pre-treating before priming. I have used and sold Bio-Zapp Odor Eliminator. It works fantastic!:

http://www.biozapp.com/


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## Brushjockey

Mr Paint- dead link- and it's hard to get it direct from Bio-Zapp. But Just used some today ( I put it in Gardz to kill it's heavy odor) - sold by this company relabeled as Kabosh. Look around to get the right kind for your use. I do not recommend the "Paint Sentsations" line- they are just an odor masker, and kind of bad themselves... 

Odor Eliminator
Kabosh


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## aandre

ratherbefishin' said:


> aandre, I understand your anxiety, but posting repeatedly in multiple threads won't get better answers. Please stick with one. No offense intended.
> Sorry. First time to use a blog. Thanks. Will try the fan.


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## aandre

Nothing showing up with black light.


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## hammerheart14

ratherbefishin' said:


> aandre, I understand your anxiety, but posting repeatedly in multiple threads won't get better answers. Please stick with one. No offense intended.
> First, put a fan on your floor at least overnight and let's make sure it's urine you're smelling and not residual fumes from the denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol, the solvent in which the shellac is dissolved, is simply ethanol mixed with a little methanol and a strong odorant to discourage winos and frat boys from drinking it. You might also want to find an extra nose or two in the morning to help identify what you're actually smelling.
> 
> If, in fact, it still smells of urine tomorrow, my guess is that the OSB (oriented strand board) was still wet when you applied the shellac. Urine gives off ammonia as the urea decomposes, and ammonia dissolves shellac. Given the number of coats you've used, though, I doubt this is the case.
> 
> SealCoat is not designed for this, it's a sanding sealer for woodwork finishing. BIN is the right product. You've only added a little clear shellac over the pigmented.
> 
> Be patient, try the fan, and let's take it from there.:wink:


I couldn't have answered it better myself!!! Andre, Ratherbefishin is right.


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## aandre

Okay, left fan on floor for two days solid. Kept away from it to refreshen nose. Definitely smells better today, but odor not completely gone. Does this mean it was the denatured alcohol? If so, is it safe to go ahead and lay down the new flooring? Or should I put another layer of BIN down? Someone suggested it sometimes takes 6 BIN layers to block such smells, but most on this site seem to think one or two should do it. Suggested next step?


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## Gymschu

If it takes 6 coats of BIN to block odors I will be out of business!


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## gobluegoblue

The reason the smell is still there may be that the urine soaked into the drywall. I had a small section of drywall removed and was amazed how it soaked several inches up the drywall. Buy a moisture meter to see if moisture is detected.


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## LKS

I'm in the same boat. So much dog urine on the plywood floor that we couldn't tell where one pee spot ended and the other began. Last July we applied several coats of Kilz Original (oil base) to the plywood, pulled the tack strip and painted as deeply as possible including a few inches up the painted sheet rock walls. New pad and carpet went down in August. Also used non-oil based primer and then laytex paint on the walls. The odors are still heavy but not sure what I'm smelling. It is heavily reminiscent of the Kilz odor, and something else chemical. The smell is greatest in the early morning...don't get why that would be but it's so. The house is not that old, (2000). The crawlspace is lined with plastic, no evidence of rodents, which I've heard can cause odor. Wondering if there is some reaction happening between the Kilz and the carpet padding? It's been 6 months! Embarrassed of the smell when guests come. Do I need to pull up the carpet and pad? Would it be obvious if there was some reaction happening?


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## HicksBenedict

The Zinsser vs Kilz primer debate is heated. Fans of each brand claim their product to be better, but do they really make a difference?

The decision to use one or the other is a difficult one. Both Zinsser and Kilz are very popular among painters, but it comes down mostly on preference as well as which paint you're using at any given time--Zinsser offers an easier option for beginners who want faster coverage with fewer brushstrokes while Kilz works better when more detailed work like stamping nails needs visibility in your final product


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## chandler48

It's a 10 year old thread


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