# Troubleshoot: Wrong Primer on Redwood



## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

My first inclination it to say that it will stain before it fails. The oils from the redwood will likely leach/wick into the finish coats causing a yellowing or tea stained look to the handrail. The sky isn't going to fall and you may even luck out and the paint stays looking good for years to come.


----------



## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

After seeing my brother's neighbor's cedar siding Kilz 2 job, I'm afraid I will have to go with the doom and gloom projection on this one. But if it makes you feel any better, The Kilz Complete ain't exactly a top of the line primer in this case. It might have doubled how long it will take the Kilz 2 to fail. Like from one year to two.


----------



## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

None of the Kilz primers, even the original oil, are exactly top shelf primers. The old school of thought that oil is always better, it becoming less and less true as acrylic primers develop. In fact, there is some evidence that short oil (fast drying) primers like Kilz and Coverstain when used on exterior wood oxidize and become brittle in a fairly short time even under acrylic top coats. 

The long held "best practice" for exterior bleeding woods like redwood and cedar is to prime with long oil (slow drying) primers, often thinned to allow for greater penetration. These long oil primers that often take up to 24 hours or more to dry do a good job of penetrating the wood. This helps to form a tight bond and lock in the tannins in the wood. As well as this system has worked over the years, even the long oils eventually fail as any painter that has scraped peeling acrylic off a house to reveal white powdery oxidized primer underneath has seen. 

The hope for acrylic primers is that they will not oxidize and therefore retain flexibility over time. Allowing them to maintain a bond on exterior wood as it ages, ie moves around. 

Anyway, after all that (can you guys tell I got the day off ) I don't think your necessarily in for imminent failure providing the preparation and initial conditions were observed to be correct. The worst thing likely to happen right away is that tannins come through. If that's going to happen, it'll likely be within a few months to a year. 

In any case I don't think adding more primer/paint now is prudent. If the tannins do come through, you might look at an oil remedy at that time. 

It's rather unfortunate that Kilz has such good name recognition by virtue of being around forever and being pretty decent (the original anyway), that people think it's still the best there is. When in reality it's mediocre at best among modern primers. Just goes to show what effective branding can do I guess.


----------



## paintofhand (Aug 19, 2015)

Jmayspaint:

Thank you for the advice and the general information about using primers on woods that are prone to bleeding! From the description given by the painter, the primer was allowed to dry for over thirty-six hours; the paint was also given plenty of drying time and was finished with an even/good-looking top-coat. Having some experience in painting years back (but not project management), I've offered to do the labor involved in remedying the prior paintwork. My inclination is to wait it out and see what happens before trying anything. 

When the time does come to do an "oil remedy", would it be ideal to remove the paint layers (as much as possible without damaging the wood) before applying a long oil primer? Or, would it be sufficient to just put in the typical sanding/cleaning work for a repaint, and then prime with a long oil primer? Obviously, if the paint deteriorates that will require heavy cleaning. But, if only the staining by the tannins is observed as a problem, what kind of procedure would you recommend?

Again, thank you!

Gymschu:
Thank you for your response. This has been my first inclination as well. Naturally, I'm hoping for the best.

Klaatu:
That really is a rough stick! I'm hoping that the fact that the railing is semi-protected from rain and in a dry climate with moderate sun exposure, things will have a better chance of working in my favor. I am starting to see Killz 2 as a general-purpose primer meant for things of less importance/exposure or for non-bleeding woods.

Thank you for all the updates! Google search wasn't helping much, so hopefully this will act as a resource for other DIYers.


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

paintofhand said:


> Jmayspaint:
> 
> Thank you for the advice and the general information about using primers on woods that are prone to bleeding! From the description given by the painter, the primer was allowed to dry for over thirty-six hours; the paint was also given plenty of drying time and was finished with an even/good-looking top-coat. Having some experience in painting years back (but not project management), I've offered to do the labor involved in remedying the prior paintwork. My inclination is to wait it out and see what happens before trying anything.
> 
> ...


which should really just be avoided all together, there are plenty of better ones out there


----------



## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

paintofhand said:


> Jmayspaint:
> 
> Thank you for the advice and the general information about using primers on woods that are prone to bleeding! From the description given by the painter, the primer was allowed to dry for over thirty-six hours; the paint was also given plenty of drying time and was finished with an even/good-looking top-coat. Having some experience in painting years back (but not project management), I've offered to do the labor involved in remedying the prior paintwork. My inclination is to wait it out and see what happens before trying anything.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the doom and gloom, but through the years I have become quite an advocate of staying away from Kilz primers in general. That doesn't come from using the product but from years of customer complaints and product failures. Not to mention the fact that most of it is sold by twenty something year olds that don't have a clue about it quality, other than what they can read off the label. And believe me those labels don't say anything about how much the product has been bastardized to keep the price down.


----------



## paintofhand (Aug 19, 2015)

Klatuu:
To me, it makes a lot of sense to invest in a high quality primer after someone else has worked so hard to create beautiful, long lasting railings.


----------



## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I used Kilz2 for spot priming on cedar clapboards 2 years ago. South side wall was in pretty bad shape. Acrylic paint over top. For what its worth, it looks exactly the same today.


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

SPS-1 said:


> I used Kilz2 for spot priming on cedar clapboards 2 years ago. South side wall was in pretty bad shape. Acrylic paint over top. For what its worth, it looks exactly the same today.


lucky for sure:laughing: look at it in another 2 years:whistling2:


----------

