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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

a


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

All the old cast and steel drain line will need to be replaced at some point.
100% of the time there going to rust out, leak, or close up on the insides.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

Ugh, a real mess there. I replaced mine with PVC, I had moved the toilet and the basement floor drain was just an open cleanout with no trap.
I got rid of the iron where it went to clay tile, and eliminated an old tile floor drain extending from that with a tee that was useless and had tree roots in it too. Put in a new floor drain with a trap, a wye with a plug for cleanout, and concreted back over.
Worst part was the clay tile and having to cut the bell end off to fit the adaptor.


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

Cast drains can last over 100 years/ in fact in my house they have been in for over 100 years.

yes they are rusty looking. If they are not leaking, why replace?


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

a


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

Scully said:


> cast iron pipes have been used for centuries, right? i don't think mine are leaking...although, i'm not sure if that yellow discharge is rust or gas leaking through.
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> ...


 
Answer to question #1 probably 40/50 years left.
" " " " #2 You really don't want to know


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Scully said:


> cast iron pipes have been used for centuries, right? i don't think mine are leaking...although, i'm not sure if that yellow discharge is rust or gas leaking through.
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> ...


Hold Your Horses! That cast Iron is in a crawlspace, so the exterior rust you see is probably normal.

I would most definitely replace all the galvanized steel pipe that ties into the cast Iron pipe, but I would probably leave the cast as is. Pull a toilet and take a look inside. If it looks OK, then leave it. The Galvanized steel is another story. It will be full of black gunk by now, especially the line from the kitchen sink. Use your sawsall, or right angle grinder with a thin metal cut off blade, cut it our and replace with PVC DWV. Tie in with fernco couplings, right near the cast Iron. The galvy Vents can stay, just make sure the pipe is properly supported.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Good suggestion Jagans. 2 points that concern me though:

1.Whats the drip stain on the right side of the foundation- cracked pipe?(1st picture)
2. The close nipple at the 45 is probably the weakest link since its mostly exposed threads, they tend to rust out quickest. (2nd picture)


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

a


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

its time to replace it ....look at the cracked hub at the bottom wye and cleanout...sorry ben sr


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

ben's plumbing said:


> its time to replace it ....look at the cracked hub at the bottom wye and cleanout...sorry ben sr


Yeah I think You may be right Ben. I just took a good look at photo 5, and it appears that water is weeping right through that elbow.

Great Photos by the way, Scully. Sorry for the bad news, but not really that expensive to replace, thanks to Plastic. Just imagine if you had to do it in CI again?


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

jagans said:


> Yeah I think You may be right Ben. I just took a good look at photo 5, and it appears that water is weeping right through that elbow.
> 
> Great Photos by the way, Scully. Sorry for the bad news, but not really that expensive to replace, thanks to Plastic. Just imagine if you had to do it in CI again?


2 questions to all:

1. how much would it cost to hire a plumber to replace everything i see in that crawl space?

2. should i be concerned about the pipes beyond the foundation?


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

A plumber is going to hurt your feelings. Its a bust your ass job for him. I would think at least 5K. I bet i'm in the ballgame. Get some bids.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Best to call a local Plumber----I see a day for a plumber and a helper---

I see you are in Wisconsin---prices vary across the state---so make a call or two---Mike---

Doing that your self will cost about $100 in parts and $25 to rent a chain breaker for the iron pipe.


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

Thats what you see, now consider what you cant see, vent stacks waste arm arms etc, how far down the main will you need to go ?
you'll need to get a plumber out to look at everything and not sugar coat anything. get at least three quotes and never go with the cheapest.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

I just replaced a countertop and kitchen sink for someone this morning that had Galvanized pipes that were installed in the 50's Here is what the inside of the pipe looked like right where it tied into the 4 inch main cast Iron waste stack. Pipe had an S trap, never properly vented. I put in an AAV Under the sink, and ran all new DWV PVC to the soil stack.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

I would suggest you get a professional plumber from your area make sure they pull a permit if required by local authority. Get three prices.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

added new picture of attic sewer vent in first post. on the bright side, if there's one, is that the sewer vent in attic doesn't look rusty, which i hope means it doesn't have to be replaced. 2 more questions:

1. is it a moisture issue in crawl space that caused it to rust so badly? or, could it be from iron and sulfur reducing bacteria in well water?

2. in what condition would you expect the cast iron pipes in the ground to look? i mean...there are millions of homes with these cast iron sewer pipes in the ground, and not everyone is replacing or inspecting them.


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## tjfslaughter (Oct 2, 2012)

You can start by replacing the sections that leak and do it in phases. 

I just did an 8 foot section that started to leak near my basement wall, I dug 4 feet out in front of the house. The pipe going to the street was 1/4" thick after only being in the ground for 120 years. 

Since you are talking about pricing here is what it cost me for 8' and some fittings:

1. I dug the hole in front of the house (no charge).
2. I bought the stuff from supply hose ($150) including the hydraulic cement prior to the plumber coming out.
3. Plumber came and installed section of pipe with a clean out and a new drain Y for a future project he used clamps with a stainless band for the transition
4. I backfilled and cemented the basement wall.

$220 for 5 hours of work for the plumber. 

*****The plumber is a "friend of a friend". He also knows I enjoy learning. He had the chain snapper, he also tought me how to use the snapper because he knows I will probably do all the accessable pipes going forward (after I buy a snapper). I will probably get one on Fleabay and use it, once the whole house is done, I will unload it.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Scully said:


> 2 questions to all:
> 
> 1. how much would it cost to hire a plumber to replace everything i see in that crawl space?
> 
> 2. should i be concerned about the pipes beyond the foundation?


It appears to me that there may have been some sort of insulation on the cast elbow in photo 5, and it is entirely possible that acid in the insulation accelerated the destruction of the cast iron pipe. The pipe in the attic looks fine, and I would guess the pipe underground probably is not that bad, as it has not been in open air where oxygen could get to it. You have to make sure you properly support the cast Iron stack with a proper riser clamp when you replace those fittings with PVC. You will need to get numbers locally.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Scully said:


> ...the house inspector never looked at it when i bought the house.


His report made no mention of the house being due for a re-pipe?


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

TarheelTerp said:


> His report made no mention of the house being due for a re-pipe?


he did not inspect it because he was in the crawl space for 2 minutes. his only comment was: "it's dry down here."

the house was on septic when it was built in 1955. it's possible that methane from septic could've caused the rusting. i wonder what types of pipes they used when they switched to city sewer.


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

Scully said:


> he did not inspect it because he was in the crawl space for 2 minutes. his only comment was: "it's dry down here."
> 
> the house was on septic when it was built in 1955. it's possible that methane from septic could've caused the rusting. i wonder what types of pipes they used when they switched to city sewer.


the amount of concentrated methane would have to be unrealistically large to corrode the pipe.


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## Greg761 (Feb 18, 2013)

*The split in the hub*

The split in the hub is the clue that the CI (except the vent lines!) is likely near the end of it's life. I see there is "MED" on the vent hub in the attic. What it isn't on the hubs is "XH" for extra heavy cast iron. XH is the type that lasts 60+ years
Cut as much out of the wet lines as you can, leave the vent lines in if its too hard to replace them, they should be OK.
I use a small grinder with a metal cut-off wheel to cut CI.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

Greg761 said:


> The split in the hub is the clue that the CI (except the vent lines!) is likely near the end of it's life. I see there is "MED" on the vent hub in the attic. What it isn't on the hubs is "XH" for extra heavy cast iron. XH is the type that lasts 60+ years
> Cut as much out of the wet lines as you can, leave the vent lines in if its too hard to replace them, they should be OK.
> I use a small grinder with a metal cut-off wheel to cut CI.


what does "MED" on the vent hub mean? since the plumber will be breaking open the wall in the laundry room, he will remove a small section of the vent line and replace with PVC.

in the future, if i decide to remodel the attic and add a bathroom, can that cast iron vent line be used?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> what does "MED" on the vent hub mean? since the plumber will be breaking open the wall in the laundry room, he will remove a small section of the vent line and replace with PVC.
> 
> in the future, if i decide to remodel the attic and add a bathroom, can that cast iron vent line be used?


MED is the grade of the pipe (wall thickness) 
You will need to add a waste stack to the upper floor for future plumbing- 3" will handle a bathroom. You cannot use the vent for drainage.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

MED--Medium---

The cast iron attic vent can be used for future work---However,once you are cutting into it--you might as well replace the old with new PVC---it is so much easier to work with.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> MED is the grade of the pipe (wall thickness)
> You will need to add a waste stack to the upper floor for future plumbing- 3" will handle a bathroom. You cannot use the vent for drainage.





oh'mike said:


> MED--Medium---
> 
> The cast iron attic vent can be used for future work---However,once you are cutting into it--you might as well replace the old with new PVC---it is so much easier to work with.


so the attic vent can be used for drainage?

i have a new roof. will the roof have to be disturbed and fix if i replace the attic cast iron vent?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> so the attic vent can be used for drainage?
> 
> i have a new roof. will the roof have to be disturbed and fix if i replace the attic cast iron vent?


No- it is a dry vent and should remain so. You need to add a separate drain stack from the attic fixtures to the crawl space- then it can connect to the existing building drain. 3" will handle the additional bathroom. 
Have your plumber run up a separate drain stack as he replaces the old pipe- he'll understand what you're trying to do
The existing attic portion of the vent can be gingerly removed from the roof jack and replaced with plastic pipe- assuming the boot is only a year old.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

tjfslaughter said:


> You can start by replacing the sections that leak and do it in phases.
> 
> I just did an 8 foot section that started to leak near my basement wall, I dug 4 feet out in front of the house. The pipe going to the street was 1/4" thick after only being in the ground for 120 years.
> 
> ...


you got a great deal at $220


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No way would I hire two companys for this one job.
Pretty optimistic thinking this can be in two days.
Time for a vaction?.
Got a buddy that will let you use his camping trailer?


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

what type of PVC would you use in a DWV (drain-waste-vent) pipe like the pipes in my crawl space? cell core PVC?


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Scully said:


> what type of PVC would you use in a DWV


Schedule 40


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> what type of PVC would you use in a DWV (drain-waste-vent) pipe like the pipes in my crawl space? cell core PVC?


cell core is for DWV- it will work- the OD is the same as sch 40.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> cell core is for DWV- it will work- the OD is the same as sch 40.


i read that cell core PVC isn't ideal for sewer pipes because it's brittle?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> i read that cell core PVC isn't ideal for sewer pipes because it's brittle?


Haven't heard that- we use ABS cell core, residential and commercial. I guess I got a lot of job security ahead of me changing out pipes.....

Sewer is a term that relates to buried lines outside of the building- not inside. For that I use pvc 3034. It is also used by most municipalities I work with.
For building drains- inside the building I use the ABS cell as pvc is not as common here.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> Haven't heard that- we use ABS cell core, residential and commercial. I guess I got a lot of job security ahead of me changing out pipes.....
> 
> Sewer is a term that relates to buried lines outside of the building- not inside. For that I use pvc 3034. It is also used by most municipalities I work with.
> For building drains- inside the building I use the ABS cell as pvc is not as common here.


for my crawl space DWV pipes, you would use ABS cell core?

there's potentially a 6' section of cast iron beyond foundation wall (pic below). for this sewer section you would use PVC 3034?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> for my crawl space DWV pipes, you would use ABS cell core?
> 
> there's potentially a 6' section of cast iron beyond foundation wall (pic below). for this sewer section you would use PVC 3034?


Here is what my local inspector would want-

ABS or PVC DWV inside the building and at least 2ft outside- then a cleanout installed with the riser brought up to existing grade. Some towns want a 2-way cleanout.
At that point you can then transition the drain to 3034 or keep it ABS/PVC to connect to what is left in the yard. That connection can be made with a Fernco coupling.

ABS/PVC is ok to run out in the yard- all the way to the city stub- it just costs a little more than 3034- some like it better too. But 3034 is not allowed to be brought into the building's footprint


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

part of the job is to also replace the cast iron connecting the drains in this section below. my garage has a floor drain which is on the other side of the house separated by a bedroom and breezeway. i wonder if this garage floor drain is also connected? i'm not sure how they did things in the 50s with septic system.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Scully said:


> part of the job is to also replace the cast iron connecting the drains in this section below. my garage has a floor drain which is on the other side of the house separated by a bedroom and breezeway. i wonder if this garage floor drain is also connected? i'm not sure how they did things in the 50s with septic system.


Hard to say but I doubt it. In my area it would have it's own dry well either in the garage floor under the drain- or outside.


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## Scully (Dec 3, 2011)

i plan on replacing only a 4' section of the cast iron vent on the first floor. my question is: looking at this picture, is there any chance that it could crack during its partial replacement with PVC?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

That section should be in good shape as it's been dry most, if not all of it's life.

3 ways to cut it. Use a sawzall, a grinder with a cut off blade, or rent a pair of ratcheting soil pipe cutters.

If you're super lucky, there might be a hub in the wall that can be broken with a few good whacks using a 2lb. hammer.

The upper pipe is extremely heavy, so be sure it's supported well and doesn't come crashing down on you.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Use a cast iron friction clamp on the stack above where your cutting where it is resting on the upper floor. 

http://www.phwarehouse.com/products/4"-%2d-Figure-126-Black-Friction-Clamp.html


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