# Repairing/Replacing Concrete Driveway



## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Because of my Homeowner's Association, I'm "stuck" with a concrete driveway. The insurance company has informed me it needs to be repaired, but it looks to me like the whole thing will have to be torn out and redone.

What's a ballpark price for a short, one-car-length and a car-and-a-half wide driveway? Nothing fancy, just something to park on.

Edited to add: If need be, I can throw pictures up, too.


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## terri_and_jj (Feb 24, 2008)

do you know why your current one failed? it sounds like something was done incorrectly on the first one, so you should really try to solve that part of the mystery and factor in the cost to correct that problem. is it just poured on dirt? is there mesh ? rebar ? where you planning to do any of it yourself, you could probably rent a demo hammer and dumpster and save a nice chunk of change by doing the tear out yourself ( demo is fun)

you don't need a whole lot of concrete, so should be easy enough to call a couple contractors to get some ball park prices. all you need is length, width and thickness.


but if you plan on staying in the house you may want to try and figure out why the old one failed so you can correct the issue for the new one and not be dealing with it all over again in 5 years.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

My plan right now is to hear what the quote sounds like. It looks to me (from where it's already failed a bit) that it was poured directly on dirt. I'd do the demo myself, I'm always up for some fun, but I know I won't have the time to do it myself with the other projects going on in the house.

I'll definitely be looking at what's going on underneath, though. A lot of silt washes down and out from under it, which is likely what caused it to start cracking in the first place.


Thanks for the tips!


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## terri_and_jj (Feb 24, 2008)

i am oft' accused of overdoing it, but i beleive it's cheaper to over-do it the first time. 

in my opinion, what's under the driveway is just as importand as the driveway surface. personally i would put a minimum of 4" of compacted stone between the (compacted) ground and cement driveway. you'll also find a lot of people who will tell you don't need rebar. They're right, you don't NEED it, but your driveway will last a heck of a lot longer if you use it.

when you start to get quotes, make sure you know what you are being quoted. ask where they are buying the concrete, and what grade of mix they are quoting

Do as much of the work you can yourself, this will give you extra cash for upgrades (like crushed stone base and rebar)


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

So the answer was:

remove and replace, 27' x 14'6" 
regrade and add stone where necessary
4000 PSI fibermesh at 4" thick

$2300

I'm going to be emailing/calling around a bit today but I'm not sure that I can beat that price with a stick.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

That is probably a reasonable price for quick replacement, but it does not affect the real cause of the failure - regrading and adding stone does nothing without going deeper and compacting.

Did the contractor mention air entrained concrete, which is necessary where you have freezing and salt? Around here, a concrete supplier will refuse to deliver any concrete for an exposed slab or driveway unless it is air entrained and usually requires 4500 psi for a guarantee. - Not expensive because you have such a small driveway.

If it was me and because of the history, I would at least use wire mesh also to tie the sections together if you get cracks. Mesh does not do this. - Also not a big ticket item, but a low-ball contractor may try to talk you out of it.

If you are E-mailing for prices, you can expect the lowest prices.

For appearance, do not forget to have him saw control joints to control where the cracks will occur. the best place would probably be at the center of the 27' length.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> That is probably a reasonable price for quick replacement, but it does not affect the real cause of the failure - regrading and adding stone does nothing without going deeper and compacting.


Honestly, I believe the failure is due to the fact that it's an 18 year old install and the previous owner did nothing to maintain it in the last 10 years that she owned it.



> Did the contractor mention air entrained concrete, which is necessary where you have freezing and salt? Around here, a concrete supplier will refuse to deliver any concrete for an exposed slab or driveway unless it is air entrained and usually requires 4500 psi for a guarantee. - Not expensive because you have such a small driveway.


In South Jersey freezing and salt aren't much of a worry, certainly not to the point it is in Minnesota.

Still working on other prices.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Other prices so far are coming in over $3000. Looking good for this guy.

He also quoted me about 2 grand to do a back patio, too, or 3 for colored/stamped.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

We really do not use as much salt as warmer areas like MI, IL, IN, OH, etc. that may also get more snow and moisture.

Freeze/thaw is related to the number of cycles the concrete sees. In some cold areas, there are only few cycles, whereas, other areas can have more cycles in a year.

Just make sure you get the correct concrete. Check municipal specs for sidewalks, curb and gutter mixes that the contractor can easiy purchase. After that it is up to the finishing, reinforcement and control joints.

If you had mentioned the 18 year old concrete, you may have gotten different answers. - Much will go to the condition of the base and subbase. Usually, the small parking slabs in a condo development are the last things to be done and frequently are poured on less than desireable soils.


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## Wood Butcher (Feb 24, 2008)

I agree with others that it is important to I.D. the cause of the original failure, which was probably lack of reinforcement combined with the pour going over dirt. that job was probably done by the low bidder as well.

if it was my house, or you were my customer, i would insist on a compacted stone base over compacted earth. "regrade and stone where needed" leaves a lot of wiggle room.
i would also insist on wire mesh being used. No way i would give you a warranty without it. is your low bidder giving you a warranty? Get a copy before you give him a deposit, read it carefully


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Wood Butcher said:


> I agree with others that it is important to I.D. the cause of the original failure, which was probably lack of reinforcement combined with the pour going over dirt. that job was probably done by the low bidder as well.
> 
> if it was my house, or you were my customer, i would insist on a compacted stone base over compacted earth. "regrade and stone where needed" leaves a lot of wiggle room.
> i would also insist on wire mesh being used. No way i would give you a warranty without it. is your low bidder giving you a warranty? Get a copy before you give him a deposit, read it carefully


You do concrete? I haven't signed anything yet...


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## Wood Butcher (Feb 24, 2008)

i only venture into the 609 & 856 area codes to go to Atlantic City or bury a body


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Wood Butcher -

If you go between I78 and I80 in far western NJ, most of them are just dumped along the fields and not buried (little code enforcement).


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Wood Butcher said:


> i only venture into the 609 & 856 area codes to go to Atlantic City or bury a body



Hey, just making sure, plenty of space in my yard to bury a body.


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## terri_and_jj (Feb 24, 2008)

actually, under a cement driveway is a great place to stash an unwanted "associate" The concrete helps keep the smell down and also deters nosey raccoons and wanna-be police dogs


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Another quote thins morning for 2600, crushed cement underneath, otherwise still 4000 lb fiber mesh and he'll do a stamped brick border on the sides.


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## so-elitecrete (Oct 27, 2007)

*w/o seeing what damage's been done,,,*

no one can give you any ideas,,, fiber's ' hot ' but doesn't do much IF the contractions jnts're not properly spac'd OR cut at the right time ( be back tomorrow to cut the jnts is NOT what you want to hear ),,, someone else mention'd base mtl - he's right - its EXTREMELY important as is drainage so lawn runoff doesn't get under the conc & soften the base mtl.

down where you are, air's not as important as it'd be in warren or sussex cty.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

Just a quick update:

A local contractor (30+ years experience, family owned father-and-son deal) will be doing the job for $1850. I'll post before-and-afters ASAP.


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## esmith2039 (Mar 21, 2008)

Do you know the size of the driveway? We're looking at putting a new 20x25 (20x30 can't remember) driveway so we don't have to fight the neighbors parking on the street. I haven't called for quotes yet but it would probably be cheaper here in the midwest.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

27' long x 14'6" wide. Most quotes came in just over 2000.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

All done!

We needed to do the patio in the back, too, and the contractor cut us a break.

The driveway and patio were started at 8:45 this morning and they had it poured and were out by 1PM. I think it's one of the best concrete jobs I've seen in a long time.
Driveway before, including sinking from the garage:


Driveway after:



"Patio" before:

Patio after:


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Rasputin, I mean no offense by this but only post to help others. It seems you made your decision entirely based on price. If one doesn't care about the quality of the job done then that is an excellent way to decide who to hire. 

But I looked at the close ups in your photo album that popped up when I clicked on your photos. Frankly, the finish work is poorly done and does indeed reflect that you hired the low bidder. If you're happy with that level of finish then that's great and you made the right decision.

I find the best way to hire contractors is to actually inspect the quality of their work if at all possible. If I don't understand the trade well enough to rely on my own inspection then I rely on others who's opinion I trust. In early discussions with a contractor I evaluate his focus. If it's on how fast, easy and cheap he can get the job done, or if he utters the magic words "we'll figure out something" when looking at a problematic area of the job then he doesn't get the job. After the contractors are narrowed down by quality then timing and cost can come into play. A bad job done for less is not a bargain.


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## Rasputin (Feb 19, 2008)

jogr said:


> Rasputin, I mean no offense by this but only post to help others. It seems you made your decision entirely based on price. If one doesn't care about the quality of the job done then that is an excellent way to decide who to hire.
> 
> But I looked at the close ups in your photo album that popped up when I clicked on your photos. Frankly, the finish work is poorly done and does indeed reflect that you hired the low bidder. If you're happy with that level of finish then that's great and you made the right decision.



I'm happy with the job quality overall, and the price was more than acceptable, and just as comparable to the rest of the quotes in the area. They also came highly recommended from other homeowners in the area.

Can you define 'finish work' for me? I don't quite understand if you mean the finish-pattern on the surface or the edging of the...well, I hesitate to call it 'landscaping' but that's an area that needed work prior to the driveway and patio, and it's an area I'll be covering myself anyway, including taking out the horrible, horrible bush-trees the previous owner never took care of.


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