# Caterpillars in my Oak Tree



## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Can anyone identify these? They are less than 1/2" long.
Every year they eat the oak leaves.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Gypsy Moth Caterpillar maybe ??



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-sarnia-lambton-shores-gypsy-moths-1.6037086


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

SPS-1 said:


> Gypsy Moth Caterpillar maybe ??
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-sarnia-lambton-shores-gypsy-moths-1.6037086



Maybe, I would be taking them to the Provincial Ag office to see what they know, and how to stop their destruction.


ED


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

?








Caterpillars Count: Invasive Gypsy Moths in Southern Ontario — EcoSpark


Invasive Gypsy Moth (Lymantria dispar dispar) caterpillars are a common species found during EcoSpark’s Caterpillars Count surveys. Should you spot a Gypsy Moth caterpillar or one of their egg masses, report your observations to EDDMapS or contact Ontario’s Invading Species Hotline. In this blog you




www.ecospark.ca


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Nik's picture looks more like what I remember of the Gypsy Moth Caterpillar but they are larger than your picture. As de-nagorg said get some pro advice.

Bud


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

There are a lot that look alike!









Caterpillars of Ontario · iNaturalist







www.inaturalist.org





"Gypsy moth caterpillars are easy to identify, because they possess characteristics not found on other leaf-feeding caterpillars. They have five pairs of blue dots followed by six pairs of red dots lining the back. In addition, they are dark-colored and covered with hairs."
*Gypsy Moth Biology & Life Cycle - Illinois Extension*
https://web.extension.illinois.edu › gypsymoth › biolog


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks.

Thinking not Gypsy moth as I have never seen them get big. They've been in the tree three years now. 
You need to get right close to see them, they're so small.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

You will want to get rid of them now before they enter the moth stage and deposit more eggs. I suspect there are many sprays that will kill them but still best to see what your agriculture dept recommends.
They also like to know what is going on around the country.
Bud


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I looked at the pictures. Didn't see any the same. I think these guys need to grow some to identify them.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

They are probably Gypsy moths. Research says they go away during the day when they mature. That might explain why I've never seen them full grown.Damn.....


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Your Ag rep, is the expert, and can do it easily.

Look them up, and go there, with a sample in a jar.


ED


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

123pugsy said:


> They are probably Gypsy moths. Research says they go away during the day when they mature. That might explain why I've never seen them full grown.Damn.....


That distinctive almost 4th of July coloring would seem to be a giveaway, if they have it. Nature is amazing.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

I think Eastern Tent Caterpillar:








North American Caterpillar Identification


This photo-rich article describes some of the more commonly found caterpillars in North America.




owlcation.com


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## Hankhill11 (Nov 23, 2020)

My first thought was tent caterpillar but looks like the ones i've seen have more of a line down the middle than dots. good luck, hope they dont cause harm to your trees


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Hankhill11 said:


> My first thought was tent caterpillar but looks like the ones i've seen have more of a line down the middle than dots. good luck, hope they dont cause harm to your trees


Not tent. I'm familiar with them. Cute little guys. 

These do eat holes in the leaves though causing damage.

The tree is young is why I'm concerned. If it was mature, there would be plenty of leaves to go around for them and my shade without them being able to kill it.
It has survived 4 years of this abuse, but doesn't seem to be growing too fast.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

de-nagorg said:


> Your Ag rep, is the expert, and can do it easily.
> 
> Look them up, and go there, with a sample in a jar.
> 
> ...


 Worth repeating.

ED


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

My guess, Pugsy, is Gypsy Moth. They change as they mature. Right now here they are just emerging and are quite small and dark, but you are south of us so a little further ahead.

They're on year two of a 'high cycle', which can apparently last two to three years . We really got whacked last year and by the looks of things it's going to be another heavy year. The wife has taken it on a personal challenge and has been taking some measures to limit them but, with the number of trees we have I think it is futile. They move up and down the tree differently both during their life-cycle and time or day/heat.

Lots of stuff on the Internet from the MNRF, maybe your Region and other sites.

They are generally not fatal to a healthy tree, but last year around here some trees looked like late Fall. Some species will put out a second batch of leaves. Although not a preferred diet, they will go after conifers which can be more damaging since needles don't regenerate.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

de-nagorg said:


> Worth repeating.
> 
> ED


We don't have a direct comparison. Pugsy is in a large municipality which will likely have some department that covers these things. Generally, the provincial Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry covers this but their offices in southern Ontario are pretty limited. Our County has a forestry department.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I just put some upside down duct tape around two tree trunks. The ants didn't like it and turned around after a minute of stepping on the sticky a few times. I think I will add some Tanglefoot to the tape for some good sticky goo. Anything tries to cross the line will be toast.

Good to research though. I never knew the female moths didn't fly. If I had of kept up with sticky around the trunks previously, maybe they wouldn't have gotten there in the first place.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

lenaitch said:


> We don't have a direct comparison. Pugsy is in a large municipality which will likely have some department that covers these things. Generally, the provincial Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry covers this but their offices in southern Ontario are pretty limited. Our County has a forestry department.



Nevertheless, finding the correct " FED" will be his best remedy.

ED


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm sure I can handle on my own Ed. Thanks.

The suckers can't get past my roadblock now............













Actual size:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> I'm sure I can handle on my own Ed. Thanks.
> 
> The suckers can't get past my roadblock now............
> 
> ...



If they hatched on the ground, but if they hatched in the tree, they are already in there. 

Some moths lay eggs in a nest in trees ya know.

Many don't, but some do.

ED


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Yes, already there. Research says they go up and down at night time. Hope they do.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Please post back to let us know how the battle goes.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

SPS-1 said:


> Please post back to let us know how the battle goes.


For sure. Let's see if they go up and down like I read online. Should be true....ha....


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> I'm sure I can handle on my own Ed. Thanks.
> 
> The suckers can't get past my roadblock now............
> 
> ...


We - the wife - got into it late last year (which was the first year of the 'high cycle') when the caterpillars were fully grown and we found they just walked across the tape. This year they are still smaller (smaller than yours) and the tape seems to be working.

The eggs were laid in beige 'nests' ('bout the size of a dollar coin) last year; some above the snow line and some below. Local experts say that, up here, last winter's cold snaps _might_ have been enough to kill the eggs above but they ones lower down were probably sufficiently insulated.

The wife has been using Tuck Tape (house sheathing tape). It's really tacky (if me trying to use it on projects and getting it stuck everywhere is any indication).We also have some trees wrapped in folded-over burlap. They can go down the tree into the leaf litter to escape the heat but can't get back up. But again, we have way to many trees to effectively deal with.

We are lucky that we have a retired forestry biologist living in the subdivision.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

W-a-a-a-y off topic Pugsy but I know you are a car guy. As I was sitting outside with my laptop and a beer surfing the Interweb, one of our neighbours had a Selby Cobra come visit. I've seen it a couple of times and need to get bold in the times of Covid and head over next time. We also have a '68 GTO that lives across the road. I'm jealous.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> W-a-a-a-y off topic Pugsy but I know you are a car guy. As I was sitting outside with my laptop and a beer surfing the Interweb, one of our neighbours had a Selby Cobra come visit. I've seen it a couple of times and need to get bold in the times of Covid and head over next time. We also have a '68 GTO that lives across the road. I'm jealous.


Just mask up and stand your distance. That's what I do at the cruise ins. (I'm officially there to exercise in the parking lot)

I'll post some updates on my build thread, the link in my signature. I just spent 6-1/2 months of hell painting _*CURSE*_, my 69 El Camino.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

123pugsy said:


> Not tent. I'm familiar with them. Cute little guys.
> 
> These do eat holes in the leaves though causing damage.
> 
> ...


In reading all the threads on sickly trees/bushes, in the forum, I wondered if some are just that . . . sickly, & attract enemies. There's probably science on that, somewhere.

Different ages -


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks.
Yep, that looks like my boys, that little tyke there.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Seems like more-or-less a re-hash of the previous story, but a new one on CBC...



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gypsy-moth-infestation-invasive-species-burlap-soapy-water-solution-1.6035662


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

123pugsy said:


> I'm sure I can handle on my own Ed. Thanks.
> 
> The suckers can't get past my roadblock now............
> 
> ...


Do they allow the sale of BT, "bacillus thuringiensis" up there in Ontario? It's a natural bacterium which is great for killing caterpillars. If you can, get a concentrate, dilute and spray your tree with the stuff. When the caterpillars ingest it they die.

Best part is, it won't hurt anything but the caterpillars. Not the birds, not the bees, not the trees.

It will wash off if it rains, so try to time usage to give the caterpillars time to eat hearty and die.


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## botany_bill (May 6, 2021)

123pugsy said:


> Not tent. I'm familiar with them. Cute little guys.
> 
> These do eat holes in the leaves though causing damage.
> 
> ...


Agree. Tent eat cherry and they don't stray far from their tents. Gypsy moth caterpillars do eat oak and are considered a problem - exotic invasive. 

I think we should all understand that caterpillars eat plants - that's both normal and ok. The plants have adapted to this and have survived for millennia without our help.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

botany_bill said:


> Agree. Tent eat cherry and they don't stray far from their tents. Gypsy moth caterpillars do eat oak and are considered a problem - exotic invasive.
> 
> I think we should all understand that caterpillars eat plants - that's both normal and ok. The plants have adapted to this and have survived for millennia without our help.


I agree, in most cases.

But sometimes Gypsy moths go wild and need some beating back. I've seen first hand, trees denuded. Thankfully, a rare occurrence, especially now that the natural enemies are about.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

DoomsDave said:


> Do they allow the sale of BT, "bacillus thuringiensis" up there in Ontario? It's a natural bacterium which is great for killing caterpillars. If you can, get a concentrate, dilute and spray your tree with the stuff. When the caterpillars ingest it they die.
> 
> Best part is, it won't hurt anything but the caterpillars. Not the birds, not the bees, not the trees.
> 
> It will wash off if it rains, so try to time usage to give the caterpillars time to eat hearty and die.


It is, but I'm not sure at the consumer level. Alas, it seems for Pugsy and us, the narrow window has been lost since it only seems to be effective at the emergent stage. If he just worried about one tree, you can even just spray it/them with soapy water.

On another note, it seems political correctness is alive and well. If you read down to the bottom, one of our local media has decided not to use the term "gypsy" to be more inclusive. Sigh.









‘All over everything’: Barrie woman starts petition for aerial bacterium spraying of LDD (gypsy) moth


The Change.org document has been signed by more than 2,200 people.




www.simcoe.com


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

lenaitch said:


> It is, but I'm not sure at the consumer level. Alas, it seems for Pugsy and us, the narrow window has been lost since it only seems to be effective at the emergent stage. If he just worried about one tree, you can even just spray it/them with soapy water.
> 
> On another note, it seems political correctness is alive and well. If you read down to the bottom, one of our local media has decided not to use the term "gypsy" to be more inclusive. Sigh.
> 
> ...


Hmm.

That is true, the caterpillars have be feeding and chewing and ingesting. If they're pupated, too late.

And, I can recall that the caterpillar stage for Monarch butterflies is only a couple of weeks. So, "Rom" moths aren't likely to linger either.

I think of a perfectly accurate PC name: Rapacious Imported European Fuzzy Caterpillar Moth. Rapacious, for sure.

All that said, you might want to get and keep some BT on hand for the next "worm" infestation, which can include hornworms, etc., on your edible crops. If you can, legally.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks but everything we eat is grown in a grocery store.

Our retired entomologist neighbour says our next cycle is tent caterpillars. I suppose when you are a bug-guy, there is always the next cycle of something to look forward to.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm just amazed at the colors. Wouldn't that make a pretty bracelet, necklace or ring. . . . 🤣 With rubies, sapphires & diamonds, of course. Ivory pearls would go well, too.

I'll let you use my idea, for free, if you send me a sample. 😊


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

https://gemplers.com/products/scent...omxnDYSC7wAuS3vaJQco_63PDQ4fvzWBoCovwQAvD_BwE[/URL]


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

DoomsDave said:


> Hmm.
> 
> That is true, the caterpillars have be feeding and chewing and ingesting. If they're pupated, too late.
> 
> ...


Can't buy any BT. No stock. Unless I want to pay 36 bucks for an 12 dollar bottle. Yes, 12 bucks normal price up here in gouge land.

I keep squishing all the buggers that are paused at the tape line. I've taken out 20 for sure.

They're getting bigger. This guy was about 1/2" long on the maple tree.
I'm watching two trees.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

There are not too many in the oak now. They seem to be in all the trees now, only a few leaves here and there with holes. Not worried at this point. Will update if they cover the whole house and we're trapped like a Steven King movie....ha....

I've killed over 30 by now. They make wonderful nail polish with a little flick of the finger.
Never mind that stick em in soapy water nonsense.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

The problem with just flicking them off is they will likely just wander back to your tree or go find another tree (maybe that's the goal?). The missus has had better luck with vapour barrier (Tuck) tape. The adhesive seems to be tackier and stand up better to rain. There are all sorts of media around 'what are these things?'. We are in year two - maybe some areas didn't get hit last year.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

After I posted I went out to walk the dogs and you see the caterpillars walking across the road, I suppose heading for lunch or cooler shelter. If you have a patio or deck with trees around, and it looks like somebody spilled pepper, that's their droppings. They are usually eating in the canopy in the night or evening. During the heat of the day they want to hide in a cooler spot.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> The problem with just flicking them off is they will likely just wander back to your tree or go find another tree (maybe that's the goal?). The missus has had better luck with vapour barrier (Tuck) tape. The adhesive seems to be tackier and stand up better to rain. There are all sorts of media around 'what are these things?'. We are in year two - maybe some areas didn't get hit last year.


I guess you missed the past of caterpillar nail polish.....who said flicking them off?...........just wipe it on the tree or pants.....ha....guts and all...


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

lenaitch said:


> After I posted I went out to walk the dogs and you see the caterpillars walking across the road, I suppose heading for lunch or cooler shelter. If you have a patio or deck with trees around, and it looks like somebody spilled pepper, that's their droppings. They are usually eating in the canopy in the night or evening. During the heat of the day they want to hide in a cooler spot.


I better take a look later. 

Where does a guy buy burlap in this country anywho? To make a burlap trap.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

We have what we call a buck moth caterpillar. They only come out in the spring. Only feed on oaks. AND IF YOU RUB AGAINST ONE THEY STING LIKE FIRE!. There’s some kind of poison in the spines. We hate when they come around. But my yard is nothing but oaks. The moths are harmless except for the fact that they breed more caterpillars.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> I better take a look later.
> 
> Where does a guy buy burlap in this country anywho? To make a burlap trap.


A landscape or garden centre should have them but they might be out. A lot of people are using poly.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

These are similar. They get about 2.5 to 3” here. Sometimes they have a little red in them. But not much, maybe more maroon but they usually look like this


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

BayouRunner said:


> We have what we call a buck moth caterpillar. They only come out in the spring. Only feed on oaks. AND IF YOU RUB AGAINST ONE THEY STING LIKE FIRE!. There’s some kind of poison in the spines. We hate when they come around. But my yard is nothing but oaks. The moths are harmless except for the fact that they breed more caterpillars.


There's a lot of poisonous moth caterpillars around. Some are really nasty, to the point of being deadly.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

It doesn’t take anything to get stung by them. If you just brush against one it’s too late. Compatible to a wasp sting. The season is just ending. A few weeks ago they were everywhere. It’s been years since I’ve been stung. But the grandkids get it pretty regular. Shoes would help lol


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