# Sweating my upcoming pour



## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

So I've poured a couple of trench footers, post piers and even a few beers but I'm not a Concrete Guy by any stretch of the imagination and my upcoming slab is starting to keep me up at night.

The slab is just the 1st step in the Fish Pond and looks something like this


















I'm planning on pouring the 3 piers with 3000PSI and #4 bar up into the slab and the slab in Air-entrained, 5000PSI w/Fibers #4 @ 18" OC

One thing that really has me sweating is having to "wet float" the entire back half of the slab due to the existing rock conditions.

Is 2 CY manageable by 3 people in a day with a 9CF mixer?


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

All depends on the people, you say your mixer is 9cf,that's only 6 batches.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Wet-screeding isn't near as complicated as one would think. Concrete has a natural tendancy to self-level, which helps immensly when trying to get concrete level. I'm sure there's been day's where I've wet-screeded 20-30 yards of concrete w/o issue. I don't think you'll have much problem, but I might suggest you cut-back on the portland cement a bit if you don't want the concrete to take off on you. I can't think of a reason to pour 5000 psi concrete for something that will take so little load, especially when the "con's" of pouring with so much cement could likely outweigh the benefits.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah, 5000psi seems like overkill. Usually that is reserved for road paving or huge mat footings. A 3000psi with fibers and air should be more than sufficient and much easier to work with.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks guys.

Yeah sorry it is 4000 PSI (Specifically Quikrete Crack Resistant Mix).

I had planned on using this model mixer but now I see it weighs almost 1000lbs 

I have to do some pretty outrageous manuevering at the site including pushing it up a flight of 4 concrete steps by hand










:no: So that's out. The retaining wall is gone and the whole mess is covered in gravel to make a ramp of sorts but its still by hand.

Maybe something more my speed


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## 7echo (Aug 24, 2008)

One of these would save you having to push/pull a mixer into the yard...:whistling2:


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

Hell yeah, I think everyone needs a 63 meter pump! Just make sure you don't have any bridges that are rated less than 160,000lbs.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Since the entire slab is below grade I'm thinking of wet screeding the entire thing.

I'll probably use my aluminum straight edge clamped to a 2x4 for a screed and snap level lines at slab top and screed top.

Thinking of scrapping the power mixer entirely and going with a mixing tub. I'll have Surface bonding cement to do a week later, core grout the week after that and mortar for veneer stone two weeks after that. By the time I move the mixer that many times I could have bought it.

One person hauling sacks & water, a second mixing and pouring down a chute and me in the hole with rake, shovel and screed.

Pumper truck might be the way to go....


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

CplDevilDog said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Yeah sorry it is 4000 PSI (Specifically Quikrete Crack Resistant Mix).
> 
> ...



To be honest, our mortar mixers our both over 700#'s, and I don't think we'd have much problem with getting them up that walk, especially if you indeed already have a gravel ramp. I'd consider at least a smaller mixer, like at least a 6 cubic foot, for the amount you need to pour. 

And keep in mind, those mixers don't hold as much as they're rated for, at least as far as I recall. You're going to spend alot of time & hard labor mixing that much concrete by hand.

If it was me, at least as a professional, I'd order ready-mix and either attempt to buggy it into the back, or have two of my laborers wheel up the ramp, with partial wheelbarrows. 2 yards would only be about 25-30 partial wheelbarrows, or 12-15 per guy...........


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh, sorry, I forget to mention 28' driveway that rises 16' just prior to the steps. :huh:

There she is:










Is mixing by hand that tough? If I get 4 guys (or even 5) I can keep the 4th guy busy grading the area for a patio and rotate everybody every hour or so.

The other option is to buy a good used mixer, keep it on site for the Summer and then sell it.


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## Jrrckd (Jan 23, 2012)

I had a similar situation, up a steep 50' driveway hill, then around a 34' deep house with mixer truck at the street only. We wanted a 55' x 15' patio poured behind the house, plus a 4' x 32' walk around the side. That was a good size job. The guy I hired used a pump trailer, working the hose on the ground from the trailer to the farthest point and worked his way back towards the front of the house. He removed a 4' to 5' section of hose each time he needed to. That was the easy part. Had never seen such a thing before and wondered how he could do it so reasonably, knowing how much a pump truck would have cost. You may want to look into renting a pump trailer from your ready mix supplier... Just make sure you have the finishers on hand to keep up with the 'crete,


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks. I looked into the Pumper Trailer rentals and they were pretty reasonable.

If it wasn't for the other mixes I have to do I think I would have gone that route but since I have to do:

18 Bags of Surface Bonding Cement
48 Bags of Cell Grout
18ish Bags of Mortar

I think the Mortar Box is the way to go. I'm looking at this 8.5CF one here

Figure I can sell it for 50% at the end of all my upcoming Masonry work.

Anyone have any experience doing this by hand? 

If each 80lb bag of Concrete yields .6CF of crete. 1.75 CY = 48 CF of crete = 80 Bags 6CF of mix in each Mortar Box load = 10 Bags/Mix = 8 Mixes

How much pizza and beer do I need?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

have them delivery the bags of concrete on pallets and crane it over onto the grass at the top of those steps or as far into the yard as can...


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Aye.

No good though. The crane would have to be a monster to reach over the railing. 

Using a Dingo with pallet forks to move small pallet loads at a time. One guy on the street breaking the pallets down onto empty pallets, one guy at the top unloading the small pallets and rotate the pallets.

Dingo gets here tomorrow with Hydraulic Breaker to finish getting rid of nasty old rock. 70% chance of rain


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Good thing I'm still on schedule :no:

Anyway, here's where I am now. 










Put the plumbing in last week.










And planning on using a 3.5-5CF Gas Mixer and wheelbarrow along with this set up to get the concrete in place.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

Hand mixing 6400lbs of concrete? An answer to one of your previous questions, a LOT of pizza and beer is what you'll need.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Really getting ready to put my foot (or feet) in it on Saturday 

So I was planning on renting one of the MultiQuip MC-3SEA Mix-N-Go portables. Pick it up Friday after 3PM and it doesn't have to be back until Monday for 1 day rental :thumbsup:

SO I'm looking at the rated maximum capacity as 3CF per batch but I suspect it will actually do 1.75 to 2CF. Each 80# of Quikrete yields .6CF of crete so I can expect to get about 3 bags into the hopper at a time.

Assuming an 8-10 minute cycle time of Load, Dampen, Mix, Wet, Mix, Dump I'm looking at 26 Cycles * 8-10 Minutes = 3.5-4 Hours of straight mixing! OMG 

That's NO BREAKS and NO SNAFU's

I think I need a 2nd mixer and 2 more laborers. If I get an extra Laborer or 3 I have plenty of side projects to keep them busy and I can rotate them through the back-breaking stuff.

Opinions?


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

So the current plan:

1 Guy in the hole with the Screed.
1 Guy in the hole with a come-along
2 guys running mixers
2 guys running wheelbarrows

This might end up being 1 guy running two mixers and 1 guy running 2 wheelbarrows and 2 guys watching.

My stand-by Laborers are kids from the neighborhood so I can send them home early if we end up with too many.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

jomama45 said:


> If it was me, at least as a professional, I'd order ready-mix and either attempt to buggy it into the back, or have two of my laborers wheel up the ramp, with partial wheelbarrows. 2 yards would only be about 25-30 partial wheelbarrows, or 12-15 per guy...........


I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm still thinking this is the best way, and nothing you've posted so far would sway my opinion. The driveway isn't an issue. The ready mix truck would only have about 2 yards, right? Have them back into the driveway with all their axles down, and unless the ground is terribly saturated, it will be fine. Wheel barrowing up the steps will be easy if you already have gravel on them. Either way, you're going to have to move alot of weight back there, you might as well move mixed concrete rather than all the renting, mixing, etc....

Not to mention, the ready-mix concrete will be of far higher quality than anything you're going to get from a bag.......


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Nod to your experience.

Unfortunately, I used a Dingo with pallet forks to move 80 bags of Quikrete and all of the block to the back yard last weekend.

I'm going with 2 3CF mixers and wheelbarrows and 6 guys. I think (hope) that if we all jump on the mixing and moving for the first half hour and skip any sort of screeding operations until we can get a jump start on the amount of concrete in the hole.

I'm hoping with 2 mixers I can cut the placement time to an hour and half.

Looking into adding a retarder right now.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

If you're using the plain old 4000 psi Quikrete, I don't think you'll need to addany kind of retarder with the amount of help & depth of the pour. Bagged concrete typically sets slowly due to the excessive amount of bleed water.


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## sevenlol (Aug 8, 2011)

it won't take 10 minutes to mix each. keep track of how much water you add to the first load, and then just add that same amount each time. i have a mixer that will do 2 80lb bags at once, and know it's like 10 wendy's cups of water. takes about 3-4 minutes per cycle.

i can hand mix 2 bags in a wheelbarrow in 5 minutes, a mixer ought to do it a lot faster.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks again guys.

I'll be in the shade until 1PM so that should slow the set as well.

Planning on using a soaker hose on a timer to cure. If I've done my job properly it should pool at the middle drain and I can pump it out as it fills the body of the drain.

Only one problem. Since I am bringing the concrete in 1/2" lower then the top of the drain (to leave room for a coat of Surface Bonding Cement and Waterproofing layer) there will be a gap between the slab surface and the drain rim.










Not sure I want to put any hydrostatic pressure on the joint between the concrete and the body of the drain. I would be worried that it may wash the cement paste out. 

What to do, what to do :001_unsure:


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

sevenlol said:


> it won't take 10 minutes to mix each


Thanks, I went back to YouTube and timed a couple of mix cycles and I was able to cut my estimate in half.

How did we all survive before the Internet? Raise your hand if you've ever seen a street map :laughing:


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

jomama45 said:


> I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm still thinking this is the best way, and nothing you've posted so far would sway my opinion. The driveway isn't an issue. The ready mix truck would only have about 2 yards, right? Have them back into the driveway with all their axles down, and unless the ground is terribly saturated, it will be fine. Wheel barrowing up the steps will be easy if you already have gravel on them. Either way, you're going to have to move alot of weight back there, you might as well move mixed concrete rather than all the renting, mixing, etc....
> 
> Not to mention, the ready-mix concrete will be of far higher quality than anything you're going to get from a bag.......


Ready mix trucks can't back up with their axles down. They automatically come up when reverse is selected. If Pittsburg is a front-discharge market, then they can pull up on the driveway no problem. 

Have you looked into a mud buggy? Its a gas powered wheelbarrow, basically, and it has about 1/4 yard capacity. You can rent one, and cut down drastically on your pizza and beer needs.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Control Joints?

Even though the whole slab is getting a 1/4" parge of Surface Bonding Cement (Quikwall) about 10 days after the pour, I think it would be nice to channel the shrinkage cracks into some grooves.

A "picture frame" around the floor drain with 4 "spokes" radiating out?

Opinions?


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Any point in bull floating?

Since this is going to be broom finished and then parged, any point in doing two trowel steps?

Actually, bull float and skip the trowel seems like a better solution.

Opinions?


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Never mind.

According to the Portland Cement Association


"Troweling should not be done on a surface that has not been floated; troweling after only bullfloating is not an adequate finish procedure."

So it looks like I'll be bull floating, hand floating, jointing and then brooming.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

Not sure how surface bonding cement works with control joints, but I really don't believe you will need them if you cure it for a few days, or better yet, a week or so. Just get it wet and cover it with a wet blanket/etc....

A bullfloat and mag finish should be more than enough for what you're looking to do IMO............


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## Ravenworks (Oct 31, 2010)

Jrrckd said:


> I had a similar situation, up a steep 50' driveway hill, then around a 34' deep house with mixer truck at the street only. We wanted a 55' x 15' patio poured behind the house, plus a 4' x 32' walk around the side. That was a good size job. The guy I hired used a pump trailer, working the hose on the ground from the trailer to the farthest point and worked his way back towards the front of the house. He removed a 4' to 5' section of hose each time he needed to. That was the easy part. Had never seen such a thing before and wondered how he could do it so reasonably, knowing how much a pump truck would have cost. You may want to look into renting a pump trailer from your ready mix supplier... Just make sure you have the finishers on hand to keep up with the 'crete,


Why on earth would you want to set up a "Slick Line" for 2 yards of mud?
They make a nice little electric mixer for a couple hundred bucks,use it and sell it.


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## CplDevilDog (Mar 18, 2009)

Done.

I give myself an 80% on the project. There's a few more high and low spots than I wanted but I can work them out with SBC.

I'll put up some pics and an After Action Report this evening.


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