# What To Prime Wood With to Accept Joint Compound?



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Joint compound will stick to anything that it touches, just like paint.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

gregzoll said:


> Joint compound will stick to anything that it touches, just like paint.


Exactly, which is why you have to prime wood before you paint it so it will stick!

You may get buy without priming but given the application, I would be tempted to hit the wood with a bonding latex or oil based alkyd primer first.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

So, the two primers I mentioned in my first post will either, or both of them, do the job? 

After the repair, the room will be painted with Behr latex primer and Benjamin Moore latex top coat.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Of the two, the cover stain is an oil based product which will seal the wood pores better, probably as good as a concrete bonder. (Then the wood won't swell up at application and shrink when it dries, breaking the bond). Is the 1/4" wood? Usually, one has to make a hardboard template, cut in the profile of area, to drag across the wet mud. (How it was initially made). Then lightly smooth the profile with soft brushes and water to fill the imperfections and holes that are created. Yet not disturbing the new work. Set up a horizontal rail to use as a positioning tool to gauge and keep correct distance and depth of the work while using the template. 
Check out the tools used in the picture under "gypsum plaster" here: http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief21.htm Just hold control key while tapping the plus/equal key 7-9 times in a row, to enlarge. Control- minus keys to go back. 
Be safe, Gary


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Interesting Gary!

It's hard to make out the images of the tools and their function though.

I think there's a misunderstanding: yes, the moulding is made of wood, 1/4" x 1/4" cross section...I'm not planning on using the wood as a template, but rather, to use it as the ACTUAL edge of the ceiling lip. That is to say, I will nail/glue this wood strip along the uneven 1/4" lip that runs around the ceiling perimeter. When painted, no one will know it is not plaster and it will provide a crisp sharp edge, as well as uniform thickness and straightness. That's the concept anyway...it's untested. 

I have about 65 linear feet of this 1/4" lip to fix and joint compound seems too unruly to be able to crisply sculpt. I tired laying some on and going over it with putty knives but it is an exercise in futility...it would be EPIC to do a whole room and I can't manage to get a crisp lip...

I figure I'll permanently affix the wood moulding against the degraded lip and then blend the resultant seam into the ceiling with compound. My concerns are that the compound sticks to the wood (I'll use the Cover Stain as per you rec.) and that the wood sticks to the ceiling: the wood will be fixed with a pneumatic nail gun and Liquid Nails adhesive...that's the plan. The ceiling is plaster on metal lathe, I'm hoping the nails will work and also not fragment the plaster ... and that the Liquid Nails will stick...the ceiling has been skim coated a week ago with a mix of joint compound/plaster. 

If you have any recommendations on doing this with compound and template, please post. I need to do this within a day or two. I'm looking for a quick and dirty (but crisp!) solution.


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## CustomBuild (Oct 20, 2009)

It seems that there has been a considerable amount of thought put into this project, as I replied to the post last week, when you were considering using the wood as a template, and you _didn't _want the compound to stick to the wood for later removal. So I hesitate in causing the thinking process to go into a different direction. But hey, what is a discussion forum for? So here goes. What about using standard corner bead? If you use the plastic type, you can score and snap off one side of the bead, and use 3M spray tack to hold it in place, so as not to crack the plaster. You can snap a chalk line to keep it straight(or use a laser line). And if you are worried about cracking where the edge of the corner bead meets the ceiling, just treat it as a joint, and tape it.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Well, as I was trying out a template backer board (that compound would NOT stick to) it didn't seem to work so well. 

I'm back in the huddle and rethinking strategies. I do not want to re-invent the wheel, but there seems to be little left by way of traditional plaster mastery skills out there (and in here) that I can connect with. 

Also, I'm working on other things while I get my options clear....but 'll need to knock this out fairly soon and quickly...the next day or two. I've not worked with corner bead before but it seems like another viable option. I do not recall seeing plastic bead - only metal - I wonder if Home Depot has it in plastic. It might work. I'm trying to find a solution that doesn't involve interminable reworking with compound to get the edge clean. But, the corner bead solution is similar to the 1/4" moulding idea. My only hesitation is it might be too time consuming working compound on 65 feet of the clipped side of the corner bead and getting the edge perpendicular and clean.

I'll need to experiment with the molding and the corner bear to see if it will fly.

There_ has_ to be a simple tool that produces this profile in the plaster. What did plasters do 80 years ago when they had to knock out room after room of this stuff?


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## CustomBuild (Oct 20, 2009)

I am constantly asking myself: how did the old guys do this so efficiently, when I have every modern invention known to man at my fingertips. The answer is simple. When you have a family to feed, and you are getting paid piecework, then ya get good at it. Good luck. When it is all said and done, we gotta see before/after pics.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

After the repair, the room will be painted with Behr latex primer and Benjamin Moore latex top coat. 

After all the effort doing what you are doing,I would strongly recommend that you not turn it into a nightmare by using cheap primer( Behr). You are using BM topcoat, so while there get a gallon of Fresh Start primer and do the job right.

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls":yes:


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Is Behr primer that bad?

I d not own, I rent. This is my apartment. However, I have lived here a quarter century and will likely live the rest of my life here. 

The owner has provided the 5 gallons of primer free, that's why I'm using it*. 
Do you think it is really worth it to spend my own money to avoid the Behr primer? I have declined the offer of the free Behr paint and am buying my own BM top coat, Regal in either flat or matte.


*Owner also gave me a gallon of California Paints Zero VOC Primer.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I do not know what the California Paints brand is about so will leave that up to you. Do not use the Behr though especially since you are planning to put a nice top coat product on after. I would use one of the Benjamin Moore primers. It is senseless to put a nice paint on an absolutely crappy primer.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Here's the California Primer:

http://www.centralpaintonline.com/servlet/the-51/California-Elements-ZERO-VOC/Detail

I've heard so much bad about Behr paint, I'm steering clear. But what are the specific faults of their primer? This is going over new joint compound/skim coated walls. 

I mean, it's free. Is it so bad as to reject it?


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Lovegasoline said:


> Here's the California Primer:
> 
> http://www.centralpaintonline.com/servlet/the-51/California-Elements-ZERO-VOC/Detail
> 
> ...


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

I appreciate the advice, I’m just interested - empirically (other than myth, as I know Behr has it’s loyal bashers): what precisely is so bad about the Behr primer?

I’m an artist, fine artist primary medium oils, though I have worked allot in acylics as well. In high grade artists oil paint, you are paying for purity and density of materials: high grade pigments, generally no or little fillers, quality oil. It’s consistent in quality. An artist may like one brand over another due to how they work. 

What is so absolutely bad about Behr primer that I should refuse the gift of as much free Behr primer as I can use? Is the benefit of a BM primer going to offset an unlimited free supply of the Behr, and if yes, how so? I have little money left to spend on more renovation materials in a building I do not own, but if it’s an irretrievable error to use the Behr, please tell me why. 

Man how insidious is THIS? It started as a thread to solve a plastering issue and ends on a Behr bashing note!


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I am not a chemist. I am a paper hanger/painter( 22 years). I cannot tell you the reasons Behr is inferior, it just is. You are an artist, do you buy your paint, brushes, canvases,etc, at Wall mart, Lowes,Home Depot? If so,I am sorry.We have tried to help, take it or leave it.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

chrisn, don't take my reply the wrong way, I very much appreciate your advice and respect your experience. And I've both enjoyed and learned much from your many posts regarding painting in the forum.

That Behr is almost universally reviled among professionals is well known. I can understand the top coat paint being dismissed...but is it possible for Behr to radically screw up in formulating and producing primer? As long as it seals (I'm using two top coats) and rolls on somewhat manageably, can it be that much of a liability under two solid coats of Ben Moore? Trust me, if it weren't offered free, it wouldn't have been a consideration, I'd of bought BM primer or comparable. But the fact that there's a 5 gallon pail of it provided for free is tempting.

I used it on a hallway here (substrate = skim coated mix of joint compound/plaster of Paris) with a high quality 5/16" Ben Moore Microfiber roller and it laid down nicely...it _looks_ real good. Brush-ability wasn't the best, but I was able to roll real close to all edges after cutting in, so that wasn't a deal breaker. If the Behr has deficiencies in how it handles, which I do not doubt, I think I've managed to overcome that with good quality tools and careful technique.

It looks like a good foundation for the two BM topcoats. But, looks ain't the whole story. If there IS a Behr issue with stability, longevity, compatibility, etc., I'd want to know. 

Since I'm not covering any dark colors, it's impossible to say if the Behr is deficient in pigment. I did lay it on solidly so it covered sufficiently. I guess there's the Behr's quality of surface that the BM paint will react to and how the BM Regal Flat/Matte will look, and that's an unknown...to me.

Anyway, thanks for the input. I got another paint/primer question to pick your brains with. I'll post it up in a day or so when I have a moment. 



PS: I use mostly top of the line art supplies. Primarily because cheaper stuff is a pain in the ass to work with and/or handles poorly...you have to think about it too much when you should be focusing on other stuff. Or it is so cheap as to jeopardize the permanence and stability of the artwork. The _really_ crap stuff...stuff that is a joke and pale shadow of the real stuff... gets pitched as it just gets in the way...like a pack of 12 pencils I bought in a drug store out of desperation recently...the wood casing was so low quality it was tough like plastic, poorly bonded to the graphite, and near impossible to sharpen with a knife and the graphite would break off unsupported. The graphite was so low grade it had difficulty making it onto the paper...it had the basic ingredients of a pencil, looked like a pencil, but wasn't quite yet a pencil...after I endlessly struggled with it trying to draw, I gave the pack to a homeless man in a coffee shop. 
OTOH, a standard reliable mainstream yellow varnished #2 pencil for 10¢ is in many, but not all art applications just as useful as the $1 art store pencil. 
Brushes that always shed hair and/or cannot hold their shape are no fun. Paint that's too oily or with too many fillers can present problems (although too oily can still be used, bit it needs some prep attention and blotter paper). 
Most all supplies are never used 'neat': they seem to get modified or tweaked in order to perform in a desired manner.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

http://www.diychatroom.com/search.php?searchid=1039838
Be safe, Gary


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

Gary, I went through this same sort of search a few weeks back. Came across a lot of complaints about Behr paint, but nothing specifically regarding their primer. 

Looking through those posts it's the same all over again....nobody has feedback on the primer.


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## Lovegasoline (Sep 11, 2009)

*Back to the task at hand: the ceiling step*

Back to the task at hand: recent experiments on reconstructing the ceiling step.


Gary, due to resolution, it was difficult for me to clearly make out the tools in the image you referenced. Without any prior understanding, your description seemed to go over my head. However, I was able to see the basic mold form they used and I made something similar (btw, the page in general was a great read, one of the best on this sort of plaster work I have come across). Mine was made from plywood well sanded on the business end (the rail thing I missed completely) and touched the room’s structure at two points: it had a slide plate that gets pushed across the top of the wall (the ‘frieze’?), a cutout mold profile which was glued into a dado on the slide plate and the uppermost part of this mold profile touched and slid along the ceiling. With joint compound it worked pretty well…. at first. However, the skim coat of the wall the workers had applied near the ceiling had too much undulation in it (and some Durabond 90…too much PITA to sand) so the slide plate would track too irregularly and just create a very wobbly line, except for some few places. It was then I understood the importance of a track to guide it. You need to have reference surfaces that are true to one another which is lacking in my 80 year old building. My sense is they may have used the picture rail molding as the track in the original construction, as I was thinking of doing…but the building had settled too much and where two walls met, the molding didn’t align. It was slowly turning into brain science. Back to the drawing board…err... the posting board, the DIY forum.

Custombuild, your solution was very intriguing when I first read it (I never knew spray adhesive was actually used to apply corner bead, nor did I know the latter came in plastic). Last night I bought 70’ of corner bead and some spray adhesive. The only problem is the ‘bead’ part of the corner bead will thicken the stepped lip a little more than I want aesthetically (from original 1/4” almost 3/8”) but I’ll get used to it. Also, there’s not much space between the lip and where the cove begins curving away from the ceiling…in order to blend the flat side of the corner bead, I may have to rework the cove’s curve to keep it uniform. I’m now reflecting on your suggestion about using tape to prevent cracks. I only experimented with a couple foot section and I used pre-mix joint compound (no tape)…. not sure if it will crack either on the ceiling side or on the wall side of the corner bead…I may put some tape on the latter (however, tape means some more compound build-up and destruction of the cove’s curve). I may try Quickset mud (Durabond 90) instead of the joint compound for the first sparse coat: it will be harder and maybe avoid cracking better than compound. I’ll do the topcoat 2nd coat in joint compound so I can sand it easily.

I’m under the gun for time, but once I do the layout with a chalk line, and carefully cut 60+ feet of corner bead to the exact width (!), I think it will go rapidly. 

My only concern: do you think the spray adhesive and the light coating of Durabond/compound will be enough to hold the corner bead on the ceiling and without cracking down the road? I do not want to tape the ceiling side of the corner bed at the stepped lip. 

Thanks again to everyone


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