# Is it normal to NOT flash the window opening on replacement windows?



## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

Had old windows replaced a year and a half ago. Now I'm in the process of renovating and found out the guy that did the windows didn't flash anything at all. 

Is this a normal practice, or do the replacement windows have be done like this (which makes sense any way you look at it):
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2008/03/05/flashing-replacement-windows

This was in an old house with a gazillion holes in the siding, but still seems it wasn't done properly. Trying to fix it so that I could do the siding been aggravating and I plan on posting some nasty reviews for the window guy online. That said, I don't want to overreact and do damage to someone's business if he did nothing wrong, and just shimming the replacements into place, foaming all around, trim coil, and caulk is acceptable practice.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

I believe the difference you are describing is between replacement windows and new construction windows. New construction windows have a nailing fin, and require careful flashing to make them watertight. Replacement windows are intended to be installed in the existing window frame. The idea is that if your framing is OK, and the flashing is good, you can save a lot of money on installation by not replacing the flashing.

When I replaced four of my windows, I elected to install new construction windows, because i did not trust the flashing or installation of the original windows. Installation of the new construction windows is a lot more complicated and time consuming than replacement windows. You have to remove exterior brickmold, at least one row and column of shingles on each side, all of the interior trim. Then you fix up any problems with the framing (rot, that sort of thing). Then you install the new construction windows, flash, caulk, replace the exterior trim, replace the siding (I had shingles), install new interior trim. Presumably you discussed the alternatives with your window company, and I am guessing that like many people, you elected to go with replacement windows because it was considerably less expensive.

Assuming that is the case, you presumably understood what you were getting, and perhaps have nothing to complain about.


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## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Presumably you discussed the alternatives with your window company, and I am guessing that like many people, you elected to go with replacement windows because it was considerably less expensive.


I did not. First house, I didn't have a clue about any of it. Called a few windows guys, chose one of them. We didn't discuss particulars of the windows or the installation, but the guy assured me it will be done right. I didn't go with the cheapest windows either. In retrospect, should've called contractors, not windows replacement people. 

Now that I'm DIYing siding, I know much more about it, and wish I did the windows myself. Also for old houses with original wood siding, new construction windows are probably easier than than replacements--the trim is wide enough that there is no need to remove any siding.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I've never seen any window replacement installers or even most general contractors including myself that will by default do everything that is showed in the link you posted. 

The reality is that windows can be replaced successfully with no leaks without those sticky tape steps. To do all of that drives the cost of the bid way up and since most (not all) are more concerned with the price of the job those details with R&R are not common place (at least in my neck of the woods).

As Mr. H mentioned (or alluded to) those type of details should have been discussed before an agreement was made. 



Dixon12 said:


> Now that I'm DIYing siding


This would be a good time to post pictures if you would like help with the siding to window details because in the end 'no leaks' always falls on the siding (or roofing) guy.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Funny thing about the FH article you linked to, they took apart the outside trim and reflashed the bare framing, just as you would flash for a new construction window, and then rather than doing the logical thing and putting in a new construction window, they put in a replacement window. They left very little of the old window there, and I have to wonder why.

This is the key sentence: "This method covers replacement windows that are installed from the exterior, not the interior."

As someone else said, get some pictures of the inside and outside of your installation. Replacement window installation varies depending whether the existing windows were old wooden windows, aluminum, steel, vinyl or whatever.

You got windows without redoing the exterior trim, so when you do the siding you can redo the exterior window trim. In the end you will have very close to what you would have had with new construction windows put in.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

"Replacement windows" need no flashing.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Agree all the above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unless just several, I sub out for replacement windows and they rely on the original flashing... and we have a fair amount of snow.... we are not exactly huricane country.

And I would note, in adding onto and redoing my son's original 1949 build POS, we were required on the new build to extensivly flash out the new windows/build with a labyrynth of special flashing (not grace ice/water shield but I forget the product). This was in temperate southern California, and time consuming and rather expensive. We were under permit and obviously did it.

BUT, in his old homeowner 1949 build POS, when we replaced the existing windows, barely flashed at all (with tar paper like product), there was absolutely no evidence of water intrusion or rot.

I'm not against a quality job, but there is such a thing as over building and over costing and over regulating for the sake of regulateing. JUST SAYING....

I have added head flashing that has been missing and I think a cost effective advisable precaution.... but things can be overdone.... AND THERE IS A REAL COST to the paying party/client.

On the other hand, replacement windows are offered at all different cost points, and there are many less than reputable companies out there, but you had several suppliers out there and I'm assuming you did your due diligence in that regard.

They often use sub contracted (day labor crews) and they can vary wildly in their quality.... often pay them 50-60 a window (removal and replace)... you do need to over see them. (I've had to have them come back and square up some installs, correct some trim they F'd up, and wipe their finger prints off everywhere they should not have marred up. (I could have done it myself, but I was pissed at them)

Good luck


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Still waiting to hear if they installed "replacement windows" or new constrution windows, huge difference.
I hear you MTN, we own a home in Keysville VA that an older lady that passed away used to own.
She had replacement windows installed in about half the house.
Not one had any caulking installed on the stops before they were installed, none around the jambs on the inside, only two screws out of 4 used to hold them in and one was ordered 2" to short and they did not even make up for it by using the head jamb trim, they just left the gap.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I got a question for everyone......

Have you ever had a window replacement company clean the windows after install.....??????

(Even my BIL, who had 70K of replacement windows done (by either Anderson or Pella... I just don't remember), had to get a window cleaner out. (He does not do any DIY).


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## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

joecaption said:


> Still waiting to hear if they installed "replacement windows" or new constrution windows, huge difference.


Replacement windows--as stated in the title of the thread. I wish they were new construction--that would've made things much easier on residing.


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## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

kwikfishron said:


> This would be a good time to post pictures if you would like help with the siding to window details because in the end 'no leaks' always falls on the siding (or roofing) guy.


Gonna add pictures when I get home in the evening. I already flashed all around, took out some of the foam, snuck flashing tape under as much as I could and redid the foam. I had to rip out the aluminum wrap, so now I'm redoing that. The windows have grooves where aluminum meets the window, so the edge of the aluminum slides right in (will post pics when I get a chance) except for a few spots, which will be caulked. I also added custom bent aluminum head flashing/drip edge. As far as I can think this through, it should work, unless caulk starts failing at the corners and water starts sneaking in in spots I haven't thought it may.


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## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

Here're a couple pics as to what I'm planning on doing. It's hanging on there temporarily for now--hopefully just till weekend when I'll be able to finish/caulk it properly.

My main concern is where aluminum wrap meets the window/slides into the groove on the frame. Other than that I plan to put sealant under the flanges of the aluminum wrap where it sits on exterior walls, tape around the flanges, then caulk/seal everywhere else.


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## ktmrider (Apr 3, 2017)

it should be done like the article you posted, but when you tell people how much more money it's going to be they flip out so it usually never does get done right


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