# Critique my plan!



## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

Hi everyone! I am doing a basement remodel on a total of about 750sf. I am doing half at a time to keep things manageable because I am gutting and redoing all walls, sub flooring, and electrical by myself. I am relatively inexperienced in drywall work, but I have been doing a lot of research to develop my plans. I am doing drywall now and it is going well. I am using 4 x 12 sheets for the ceiling and 4 x 12 sheets of xp on the walls for a little added piece of mind. I tried to minimize butt ends, stagger my joints, and kept gaps at 1/8 of an inch the best I can considering I am hanging this myself. I am most worried about muddying and taping. Here is my plan...

I plan on prefilling my gaps with 90 minute hot mud, using paper faced metal corner bead for the inside corners, and vinyl bullnose for the outside edges.

After the prefill, I will switch over to premix AP MUD. I decided to use fibafuse because it seems to be as strong as paper and eliminates the issues of bubbles and provides thinner flatter joints. Depending on how my ceiling to wall corners go, I may use Trimtex vinyl crown molding. 

In addition to any input you may have, i was wondering if there is any value to putting additives in the mud. I hear there are pros and cons to adding water as well. Should i tape with hot mud or premix? Any thoughts? I will post up some pictures in a day or two once I finish hanging drywall.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Corner bead for the INSIDE corners???


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## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

Willie T said:


> Corner bead for the INSIDE corners???


Yes, the metal reinforced paper tape. Not sure if it is considered corner bead though.


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

You don't seem to be getting any play from the pros, so i will jump in and offer my opinions. While i may be a CPA, I have just finished my second basement total rehab.

I wouldn't use hot mud on any small cracks that will be covered with tape. I wouldn't use any metal beads for inside corners. Tape is fine. I would use metal beads for outside corners. I HAVE HEARD that metal is better than vinyl for adherence. I used all metal beads. Menards, not HD, had the metal bullnose. I would just use the regular big box stores tape and mud. I have heard that you use water to thin out the mud for certain applications. Me, I used the green lid for every layer without thinning.

Its not rocket science. Don't over think it. It just takes repetition to become decent at it.

B


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

I have to ask why 90 min hot mud? For tape embedding? Why not use the green lid add a pint of water mix and apply. Why not use the tape buddy works slick as whistle. Pm me and I can give you link to what a tape buddy is.I would use metal paper face beads for the corners and again if your worried about adhesion on your beads I would use mud max picked up at you pro drywall supply store. Well best of luck.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Stay away from all metal beads!! Use USG or beadex metal paper tape beads they are warranted for the life of your home not to crack. Using a all metal bead you have to nail it to the 2x4 and sheetrock and when the wood expands or contracts it will make that bead crack every time. And just using paper tape on the inside corners is fine. Also do not repeat do not use fiber mesh self sticking tape! Use the paper tape. It works better no pro I know uses fiber mesh tape.


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## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

Nailbags said:


> I have to ask why 90 min hot mud? For tape embedding? Why not use the green lid add a pint of water mix and apply. Why not use the tape buddy works slick as whistle. Pm me and I can give you link to what a tape buddy is.I would use metal paper face beads for the corners and again if your worried about adhesion on your beads I would use mud max picked up at you pro drywall supply store. Well best of luck.


In reading many forums, this appears to be a common practice. Cut out a 45 degree slice on your butt joints and prefill your gaps with setting compound, especially any with 1/4 " or more gap. I have very few of those in a few spots where I have a high or low framing of the ceiling and the top sheet on the wall has a little gap where it meets the ceiling. I will do some research on tape buddy. Thanks for the input.


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## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

Nailbags said:


> Stay away from all metal beads!! Use USG or beadex metal paper tape beads they are warranted for the life of your home not to crack. Using a all metal bead you have to nail it to the 2x4 and sheetrock and when the wood expands or contracts it will make that bead crack every time. And just using paper tape on the inside corners is fine. Also do not repeat do not use fiber mesh self sticking tape! Use the paper tape. It works better no pro I know uses fiber mesh tape.


I guess I created some confusion. I won't be using metal corner bead that you nail in, just the metal reinforced paper tape for inside corners. I was told it will set nicely and not move around while you set it like paper only would. I won't be using Fibatape. It is called Fibafuse and it is set in like paper tape, but porous. It gets good reviews by lots of folks on drywalltalk.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I think the Tape Buddy would slow down a pro. But I think for a novice homeowner, it seems just about perfect.

I would NEVER bevel off the Butt Joints. It serves absolutely no purpose. But if you have not yet hung the board (and the AHJ doesn't object), I would research, and use, Butt Boards. They will give you just about perfectly smooth and flat butt joints. Hanging boards the conventional way cannot, and never will, do that.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

No one has yet mentioned anything about the plastic crown. I can say only one thing... OMG, don't do it!


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

yes totally prefill gaps 1/8" and larger with hot mud. 
use the green lid mud for setting the tape.
then use whatever finishing mud you like. i always use lafarge rapid coat.
fibafuse hasnt made it this far north to canada yet so i cant comment on how good/bad it is.
i'm not a fan of the paper faced metal beads for inside or outside beads.
i recommend just using paper tape for inside corners.
i find the best outside corners are nocoat ultraflex 325 but you need a corner roller to apply them properly. so my second choice would be aquabead by certainteed. just spray water on the back and stick them on. i'm not a real fan of trimtex outside corners. the spray glue sucks and staples dont like to stay in and it just dont give it a nice finish and if they get bumped the corner just blows apart, the mud just doesn't hold onto it very well.
can you get 12' sheets down into your basement?
you can totally do it yourself with a lift but its a pain and even more carrying those sheets down into the basement so i recommend call a buddy over to help.
and butt boards are definitely nice to have.
and mud additives arent really needed if you use the proper products.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

When I switched from trimtex beads to metal paper face my call backs went to zero. I run the bead through a mud hopper put it on the corner and use my corner roller zero problems.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

ya they dont come out as nice without a corner roller just like nocoat. the average homeowner doesnt have a corner roller.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Brett K said:


> Hi everyone! I am doing a basement remodel on a total of about 750sf. I am doing half at a time to keep things manageable because I am gutting and redoing all walls, sub flooring, and electrical by myself. I am relatively inexperienced in drywall work, but I have been doing a lot of research to develop my plans. I am doing drywall now and it is going well. I am using 4 x 12 sheets for the ceiling and 4 x 12 sheets of xp on the walls for a little added piece of mind. I tried to minimize butt ends, stagger my joints, and kept gaps at 1/8 of an inch the best I can considering I am hanging this myself. I am most worried about muddying and taping. Here is my plan...
> 
> I plan on prefilling my gaps with 90 minute hot mud, using paper faced metal corner bead for the inside corners, and vinyl bullnose for the outside edges.
> 
> ...


Just my $.02 -90 minute mud will work but a bit of over kill.
Using paper faced metal corner bead won't work for inside corners. the metal is on the wrong side.
As for using bullnose corner bead there are a couple issues to think about. 1. your drywall will need to be set back on 1 side. 2. If you paint 2 walls different colors it is very hard to do with bullnose and look right. In other words with no corner how do you get a straight line where 1 color stops and the other begins.
The fibafuse tape (not to be confused with fibatape whice is mesh) is great.
You can use additives in your mud to give them strength, Mud max from Trim Tex comes to mind or even concrete additives will work. Do not use on your final coat though these additives make the mud hard to sand.
And yes add water unless you use additives a little less than maybe a qt. It will loosen the mud up and make it a lot easier to work.And when you tape if you use paper tape it will make the tape wetter whice will reduce bubbles. If you use additives then no water. I have used the Trim tex crown and found it pretty easy to work with and really looked pretty good. 
If you are familiar with trim tex then also look into butt boards and you can eliminate any and all butt joint whice will make your life easier.
And I really prefer vinyl bead to metal.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

they make inside corners with metal in them
http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...entPLP=true&omni=c_Corner Bead&searchNav=true

they even make inside bullnose corners http://www.homedepot.ca/product/bea...orner-bead-bullnose-3-4-in-radius-8-ft/911262

i failed to notice you were doing bullnose corners http://www.homedepot.ca/product/she...orner-bead-bullnose-3-4-in-radius-8-ft/911278

the paper faced is the best for bullnose corners. i dont like the 90degree paper faced.


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## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks for the great advice everyone! Lots to think about. I will only be using bullnose on outside corners only to prevent paint issues. It is good to know that the additive makes it harder to sand and only using water for the final coat. As far as the crown molding, it has its advantages and people that have used it seem to like it. It is easier and faster to put up, cheaper, and you won,t end up with gaps where it pulls away from the ceiling when the seasons change. It looks the same and you probably wouldn't know unless you climbed up a ladder.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

I would know I don't use vinyl trim wood only and mostly stain grade. The white look it going away. Wood is coming back in vogue again.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

the vinyl crown does look pretty good but i've only put it up for looks but as far as faster cheaper and won't crack i dont think so. i think taping the corner is faster, its not cheaper then a $5 roll of tape. and i'd be more worried with cracks with that crown then a properly done corner. the only thing that might happen with the season change is screw pops. to prevent that keep your screws 4-8" away from the corner. and ya wood is coming back but average joe can't afford it so it wont be making a big come back anytime soon


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

princelake said:


> the vinyl crown does look pretty good but i've only put it up for looks but as far as faster cheaper and won't crack i dont think so. i think taping the corner is faster, its not cheaper then a $5 roll of tape. and i'd be more worried with cracks with that crown then a properly done corner. the only thing that might happen with the season change is screw pops. to prevent that keep your screws 4-8" away from the corner. and ya wood is coming back but average joe can't afford it so it wont be making a big come back anytime soon


Prince crown moulding hasn't anything to do with the corner. I don't know about faster, except you don't have to finish it, but yes it won't crack. And to put it up you use glue and stables. so no screw pops. This product is made by trim tex all they make is drywall products. Another great product is their EZ Tray, it lets you change a regular ceiling to a tray ceiling with no demo. Just a kit and some drywall. Check out their website. They make about a hundred different corner beads.


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## Brett K (Jun 6, 2013)

princelake said:


> the vinyl crown does look pretty good but i've only put it up for looks but as far as faster cheaper and won't crack i dont think so. i think taping the corner is faster, its not cheaper then a $5 roll of tape. and i'd be more worried with cracks with that crown then a properly done corner. the only thing that might happen with the season change is screw pops. to prevent that keep your screws 4-8" away from the corner. and ya wood is coming back but average joe can't afford it so it wont be making a big come back anytime soon


My comparison on cost was referring to vinyl vs traditional crown molding. Tape would certainly be the cheapest way to go.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

i know of all the different products trimtex makes and yes i know its installed with glue and staples and im saying that i'd be more worried about the crown joint where there is glue and staples cracking with the seasons. 
and ohhh ya gotcha on the price comparison with vinyl vs. traditional


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## paparocks (Jun 29, 2011)

If you're using a quick set vinyl bullnose would be fine and easier to put on. You'd have to hit it pretty hard to bust it loose....vinyl works just fine in my book


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## thatbobguy (Apr 12, 2012)

Willie T said:


> I think the Tape Buddy would slow down a pro. But I think for a novice homeowner, it seems just about perfect.
> 
> I would NEVER bevel off the Butt Joints. It serves absolutely no purpose. But if you have not yet hung the board (and the AHJ doesn't object), I would research, and use, Butt Boards. They will give you just about perfectly smooth and flat butt joints. Hanging boards the conventional way cannot, and never will, do that.


The Tape Buddy presupposes that nobody ever invented the banjo!

I'm too klutzy - I'd end up with a pool of mud on the floor!

For around the same price point (pardon the expression) you'd be better off with the Homax 6500 banjo:

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=tape buddy&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:tape buddy

But for a few bucks more, my favorite is:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Boar...n-Drywall-Taper-51-007/100377305#.UbKfBtnldbx

As for butt joints, the buttboard idea is great, if available, but you can make your own:

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx


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