# Electricity bill is tooooo big.



## SeniorSitizen

You need to move and do some research before renting your next.


----------



## roughneck

Is it electric strip heat, or a heat pump?


----------



## Bondo

SeniorSitizen said:


> You need to move and do some research before renting your next.


Ayuh,.... That makes the most sense,....


----------



## jimn

The cost to generate a btu of heat with electricity is the same no matter what the device. Q Quartz or radiant heater may save you money if you turn down the thermostat and use the Quartz heater to warm the area you are in. Beware portable heaters can be a fire hazard and given the place you are renting has some maintenance issues already, the electrical system may also not be in great shape. One Quartz heater will use all the capacity of one 15 amp circuit. I would plan on moving at the end of your lease.


----------



## Marqed97

If the landlord says no, then your hands are pretty much tied. Not much you can do. If I was a landlord I probably wouldn't want a tenant modifying anything in my property either. I've also been on the other end of that battle. 

One temporary fix for big gaps around windows and door frames is the foam backer rods they well for caulking. There's also temporary flexible weatherstrip that comes in a caulking tube and later peels off. But that may be too permanent in the landlords eyes. 

Beyond that, time to look for a new place. When we were looking at houses, I would always call the local utility and get at least a years worth (preferably two) of utility cost statements. It can be an eye opener.


----------



## Tom738

Don't underestimate the benefit of curtains. A heavy curtain with a few inches of air between it and the window or door can make a big difference.

There are 2 of you in a 3/2 home. You may be able to close off some rooms and/or drain some plumbing. And or get someone to rent a room, which would hopefully cover your electric.

There may be some environmental factors you could use to help. If you get a sustained cold wind out of the north, for example, it might be worth putting some kind of windbreak in front of the unit if you can. But that is probably impractical.

If you have predictable water needs, a hot water timer can pay for itself fairly quickly. Landlord would have to sign off, but you would get an electrician to put it in.

Landscaping should have been part of the deal when you moved in. If you didn't agree to it she shouldn't charge you more for it or demand it of you; if you did agree to it you shouldn't complain because it's basically part of the rent.

Overall having an adversarial relationship with landlord is bad for all; obviously keep looking for a place, but in the meantime I would just try to be nice and look for reasonable compromises. If you have an *open air gap* between the door frame and the rest of the house and she won't let you use sealant, see if you can just put on press-on foam, or even painter's tape--something that won't leave residue when it comes off.


----------



## High Gear

I remember as a little tike Dad stuffing old sheets around the front door with a butter knife.
Plastic taped around the windows. 
Fuel oil forced air not keeping up and Mom lighting the propane oven in the morning to warm it up.
Doesn't sound like they changed much and that was 50 some years ago.
Electric heat makes me think it was made for a warmer climate.


----------



## calah

We are in a warmer climate, but we can get below freezing in the winter. 

I believe it is a heat pump. 

I wasn't planning on modifying the house, just things I can possibly do cheaply. 

This house was lower rent than everything in the area and we has limited time, plus it has a fence for my dog. Most we found available did not or were $200-$400 more a month for rent. 

Landscaping was not included in the contract. She just says I can do what I want to the yard because everything currently planted is dead and withered. She has given me permission to use the unfenced portion for vegetable gardening, which is a great thing. Also, I would never do anything to the house without permission. She had HVAC and all that come out before we moved, but that doesn't include the weather-stripping and the like. 

As for the foam, I believe I mentioned in the original post that I weatherstripped the doors and windows.

I brought up the landscaping as an example that she probably will not be willing to improve the house beyond neccesity. 

As for all the people talking about researching the houses, we moved here for a job and had a very short time to find a place in our price range that both allowed pets and had a fence.


----------



## calah

Also, we are saving up for our own house to buy and hope that after the year is up, we can get our own place. We aren't really apartment people. 

I had permission to weatherstrip. 

And as for shutting up parts of the house...my bf is on nights and I work days right now, so we tend to work/relax in the office and guest bedroom while the other person is sleeping in the master, so we tend to use the whole space. The living/dining/kitchen is really one big space in the middle, so not easy to isolate. I have some of the vents shut to rooms we use less or if they are covered in furniture. Every room has 2-3 vents in it, so it shouldn't be hurting airflow.


----------



## beenthere

Do you turn the heat up and down? If so, with a heat pump with electric aux heat, you increase your heating bill. Because the aux heat is being used to raise the temp. And it is far more expensive to use then just letting the heat pump maintain temp.


----------



## calah

Thank you for actual advice. We turn down a little lower if we are going to be gone but not off. I will try to stop that and see if it improves the bill.


----------



## SeniorSitizen

calah said:


> As for all the people talking about researching the houses, we moved here for a job and had a very short time to find a place in our price range that both allowed pets and had a fence.


With that said I understand your situation completely. One of my sons and his family just went through that very situation.


----------



## Davejss

With electric heat and electric hot water you're pretty much screwed no matter what. Some insulation and weather stripping certainly won't hurt, but I'm betting it won't help much either.


----------



## calah

Davejss said:


> With electric heat and electric hot water you're pretty much screwed no matter what. Some insulation and weather stripping certainly won't hurt, but I'm betting it won't help much either.


Unfortunately, we are in an area where we don't have a choice. Some manufacturing companies, but mostly pasture and farmland. We can't get gas, cable, and up until last week- we couldn't even get pizza delivery. The trash pickup that does the main town doesn't even come out to my area. The odd thing is that we are only 15 minutes from a very busy highway and less than one from an interstate. My last place had gas, it is definitely taking some getting used to.


----------



## 47_47

Bill seems high. 

Two items to check

Electric heat, water etc. Are you on a well with pump? Is the pump running all the time?

If you turn of all of your breakers does the meter still spin?


----------



## PoleCat

Are you billed by your landlord or a utility? Used to be around here the trailer parks resold electric to their residents and greed got to be a large problem.

If you get a monthly bill from a utility what KWH are they charging you for and at what rate?


----------



## AMHope

A few things you can do. Look at where your electric bill is coming from and in most places you can choose carriers for your electric- make certain you are with the cheapest possible (and don't be fooled by an "introductory rate" for switching). 

For gaps that you can see daylight through if you can do nothing else get some 1 1/2 inch plastic/cellophane tape and tape over the gaps around doors and windows. I will do nothing for loss of heat through conduction but it will stop the more rapid heat exchange caused by drafts and get rid of the drafts. Even if you cannot see light - f you tape the cracks it will reduce drafts substantially and works the same way as caulking , but less permanently. If done neatly it is barely noticeable. 

The 3m window films for winterizing windows also work well and would not need approval of your landlord. Only issue is then the windows are closed for th eduration of winter.


----------



## calah

I have no idea if the pump runs continuously. 

We had HVAC out today and they said everything was working fine. 

We have a utility provider, but we had issues even figuring that out when we moved. We have three larger companies in the area and the first said "not us." Then the next two said "I think it is the first one." So we checked again and they said "nope! Still not us!" Turns out it is a smaller company, so maybe that is why the higher amount? Our largest bill in our previous place was around 70 and that was mid summer with the AC blasting. 

My bill says I used 551 kWh...no idea if that is good or bad. And I have a monthly facility charge of 21.50. I had a previous credit balance of $130...so I only ended up paying $86. No idea why there is a credit. Part of it was a nonrefundable processing fee as well and a membership fee ($30 total.) Which sucks because that adds ~$50 of bull___ to the bill each month.


----------



## beenthere

Sounds like your on a small expensive co op.


----------



## AMHope

I would look into the bill a lot more and seriously consider changing providers. a $30 membership fee is very high and you will need to use a LOT of electricity at a much lower rate to justify $50/month in fixed bill before any usage is considered. There should be a phone number on the bill for "questions about this bill" that you can use to figure out who your provider is.


----------



## oh'mike

Your situation brings back memories of a little cottage we rented in California,many years back----I really liked that old place,but it was so cold in the winter--air leaks and no insulation---

Beenthere offered a good bit of knowledge----And Tom738--the heavy curtains help a lot---

You have been busy stopping air leaks---I can't offer much else---


----------



## calah

AMHope said:


> I would look into the bill a lot more and seriously consider changing providers. a $30 membership fee is very high and you will need to use a LOT of electricity at a much lower rate to justify $50/month in fixed bill before any usage is considered. There should be a phone number on the bill for "questions about this bill" that you can use to figure out who your provider is.



I know who my provider is, I was just saying that it is a small company and none of the larger ones had any idea who serviced my area.


----------



## PoleCat

Typically the company that owns and services the distribution equipment in your area will also be your default provider and you get to pay a higher rate. You can shop around and buy your electricity from a different source to get better rates. You still get billed by the same company as you do now but the rate will be lower. South Carolina is an expensive state to be all electric in.


----------



## Hick

I lived in a slum home once. Hated it & had the same issues with heating.

What me & my roommate ended up doing in the winter was we each had a space heater in our room. That was it. The rest of the house was freezing cold but we stayed toasty.

It sucked having to go to the bathroom or the kitchen to get food & had to basically eat in our rooms but we got by.

We also had thick thermal blankets up over the windows & towel stuffed under the doors.

I know how it is but if the landlord is a slumlord, look for a new spot to squat.

if there is no insulation in the walls you can nail up old comforters to them. Blankets, even sheets. The thicker the better but anything will give you insulation. 3-4 sheets thick around the walls would provide lots of insulation due to trapped air. Family or friends might be able to help, garage sales. Maybe look into finding your local poverty support groups. There are places full of clothing, blankets & such for the poor they will give for free. Ask the local churches. These places might even be willing to help out with your bills.

You can wrap your hot water heater with insulation. Might be able to pick up free scraps from construction sites if you cannot afford. This will help keep the water hot & thus use less energy to heat.

Get some cardboard & lots of old news paper. Staple the cardboard up over the windows then crumple up the news paper & stuff it down between the cardboard & window. Easily removable, very cheap & will provide insulation. Then you can cover that with a sheet or blanket or drapes. Put aluminum foil up on the inside before you put the newspaper down in there for a "nicer" look from the outside.

I would personally cover up or plug up every single vent in the home, not use the HVAC at all. Stuff any old clothing or rags into any crack I could find & heat your home with a few space heaters. Just be careful, they can be a fire hazard so keep them away from flammables like cloth.


----------



## calah

The house itself is actually really nice looks-wise, it just isn't sealed well. We picked up a larger heater for the bedroom and it seems to be doing nicely. SC is both bad and good because the weather is so weird. 70+ one day and below freezing the next. Every other year or so, we will have a bad ice storm that knocks out power and stuff, but generally just cold only. 

The landlord is really nice about certain things....like pest control and stuff...if reluctant. She had the HVAC guy out and he said everything is working as it should...so I guess other than sealing and stuff I will just have to make sure things get unplugged and lights off. 

Until I get another bill, i can't really determine if anything has worked.


----------



## Hick

Only solutions to reduce electric heating bill are:

1) insulation, by what ever means possible.
2) sealing off drafts, by whatever means possible.
3) reducing square footage of space needed to be heated.
4) alternative heating sources.

As Jimn01 stated, the cost to create the BTU of heat with electricity is going to be the same regardless of how you do it. 

Thus, you have to make it so it is easier to be heated & those are the only ways to do it.


----------



## LeakyHawaiiRoof

calah said:


> Until I get another bill, i can't really determine if anything has worked.


Look at your electrical meter daily around the same time. Write down the numbers. This information will tell you how much electricity you used each day. Pay attention to how fast the meter is spinning. Note if the water heater is running. On days you used the clothes dryer, the number should spike a bit.


----------



## LeakyHawaiiRoof

calah said:


> My bill says I used 551 kWh...no idea if that is good or bad. And I have a monthly facility charge of 21.50. I had a previous credit balance of $130...so I only ended up paying $86. No idea why there is a credit. Part of it was a nonrefundable processing fee as well and a membership fee ($30 total.) Which sucks because that adds ~$50 of bull___ to the bill each month.


 I did a bit more research and your electricity cost, not your usage, is the problem.

*Your current situation: *
$021.50 Monthly facility fee (fixed)
$030.00 Membership fee (fixed)
$164.50 Balance of bill, I assume this is the usage fee (variable)
==============
$216.00 monthly total 

$164.50 / 551 kWh = $0.2985 per kWh.
*
$0.2985 per kWh is absurdly high for South Carolina!!!!!*


*Your previous home situation: *
$10.00 Monthly facility charge (fixed)
$60.63 = 551 kWh @ $0.13/kWh
=======
$70.63 monthly total

(Amounts are rounded estimates based upon information at https://www.sceg.com/paying-my-bill/rates )

What is the company name on your electricity bill. Something is really wrong here.


----------



## LeakyHawaiiRoof

$216 for 551 kWh is higher than the highest rates in the nation. Hawaii is widely considered to have the highest electricity rates of all states in the U.S. This is what a 551 kWh bill in Hawaii would look like:

$009.00 = customer charge (fixed) 
$107.42 = $0.306931 x 350 Kwh (the first 350 kWh) 
$064.01 = $0.318466 x 201 Kwh (the remainder of the 551 kWh)
=======
$180.43 = total

http://www.heco.com/vcmcontent/Stat...ergyServices/Tarrifs/HECO/EFFRATESDEC2014.pdf

I would suggest calling the South Carolina Office of Regulatory Staff, Electric Department. http://www.regulatorystaff.sc.gov/electric/Pages/default.aspx Just the fact that your rate is now the highest in the nation should make for an easy argument that someone is doing something wrong.


----------



## calah

Wow. Thank you for going so in depth. However, it actually got figured out. I called to check on things and $100 of it was deposit/start up fees. That plus the membership fees (which I posted about before..) made up most of it. The membership fees are not monthly (yay!)

My bill was only $99 this month...I should have updated. I was thrilled when I got this month's bill. Last month was technically only 80ish for the actual electric costs, the rest were a variety of one time fees. 

So yea...sorry. I appreciate everyone helping, great site here.


----------



## bobelectric

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... That makes the most sense,....


 Move to where before renting your next?


----------



## arvanlaar

I feel your pain. My wife and I bought a 135 year old home that was built and modified by a complete moron. Insulation is suspect and for sure not in the floors, the doors are cut uneven so they are not square and have large gaps plus sooooo many other issues. Our Bill for January and February is most likely going to be close to $900.... :S

Best temporary solution is to stuff towels in the door crack and hang heavy curtains. Also, bubble wrap on the windows does miracles. You can also use tealight terracota planter heaters that are a great way to heat a room without electricity. Have a look here http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog/how-to-make-a-candle-heater.htm 

There are several variations of that design so find one that works best for you


----------



## Oso954

> You can also use tealight terracota planter heaters that are a great way to heat a room without electricity. Have a look here


Why would you say that ?
To quote from the link you provided,

"Despite the less-than-optimal testing conditions, still, in no way would it heat up your home (or even a normal size room for that matter), but in an enclosed area like your car I could see it having some benefit."


----------



## arvanlaar

Oso954 said:


> Why would you say that ?
> To quote from the link you provided,
> 
> "Despite the less-than-optimal testing conditions, still, in no way would it heat up your home (or even a normal size room for that matter), but in an enclosed area like your car I could see it having some benefit."


Not sure why the author said that. I was at work so I just found the first article I could find. Maybe that design is different but most will warm a small enclosed room on their own. From almost any other design I have read they all say that. There is a guy who owns a very small one room apartment in Toronto and he heats the whole thing with one of these (his uses 4 tealights.)


----------



## Oso954

The tea lights are similar to a space heater. If you have one and sit next to it, it seems warmer because it has trapped the heat (and radiates it) at your level, rather than letting it rise to the ceiling. It does not magically multiply heat.

And similar to a space heater, if it is in a large room you can walk into the room and not even notice a difference in the heat level as compared to other rooms in the house. You only notice the difference when you get real close to the heater.

In a small room with the door closed,the tealight heater might raise the room temperature a degree or so, but far less than a space heater would.

And the bottom line on it is that on a pure BTU basis, the candles will cost you more than an electric heater.



> There is a guy who owns a very small one room apartment in Toronto and he heats the whole thing with one of these (his uses 4 tealights.)


Have you ever been in his apartment, or did you just read that on the internet ?
I've heard of people that heat their whole apartment by leaving the door open to the hallway (heated as common space). But I don't think I would spend much time sitting around in there in the winter time.


----------



## beenthere

A tealight candle, puts off about 265 BTUs an hour. So 4 of them would be 1,060 BTUs an hour. So it would be a very small apartment. And probably is surrounded on 3 sides, plus the top and bottom by other heated apartments.


----------



## Oso954

> A tealight candle, puts off about 265 BTUs an hour.


For those not used to BTU's, that would be the heat from a 77 watt incandescent light bulb.


----------



## arvanlaar

I read about him so no I haven't been to his apartment. I have a friend who does the same thing in his bedroom in his basement apartment and it does make a difference. Like you said, not a ton if it is in the corner of a room and if you are in the other, or if it is a very big room, but in a smaller room with the heat source in the center, it works. 

The lady wanted ideas to stay warm. I am giving her ideas. That is all


----------



## ChantryOntario

I know I'm late to the thread, but.....

Electric water heaters have heat controls hidden by a panel on the body. Normally they're marked in degrees you want the water heated to. Every one from the factory I've ever looked at is preset to 140 degrees. I find that stupidly hot, burn the crap outta ya hot.
Large amounts of energy to keep a tank of water at that heat.

We adjusted ours through trial and error and found that we were fine at 118, below that and we just felt it wasn't really hot. Saved us about 15% on our electric bill though, that small adjustment. You may find that 140 works for you, but *turn the power to the heater off,* pop the panel, and see how easy it is to make the adjustment. You may find that turning the dial to 120 saves you 10-20 bucks a month, and you have just a hot a shower as normal, you just reduce the cold tap a little.


----------



## arvanlaar

I agree with Chantry. And if you can, insulate the water heater by wrapping it so heat doesn't get lost through the outside of the tank.


----------



## LeakyHawaiiRoof

ChantryOntario said:


> I know I'm late to the thread, but.....
> 
> Electric water heaters have heat controls hidden by a panel on the body. Normally they're marked in degrees you want the water heated to. Every one from the factory I've ever looked at is preset to 140 degrees. I find that stupidly hot, burn the crap outta ya hot.
> Large amounts of energy to keep a tank of water at that heat.
> 
> We adjusted ours through trial and error and found that we were fine at 118, below that and we just felt it wasn't really hot. Saved us about 15% on our electric bill though, that small adjustment. You may find that 140 works for you, but *turn the power to the heater off,* pop the panel, and see how easy it is to make the adjustment. You may find that turning the dial to 120 saves you 10-20 bucks a month, and you have just a hot a shower as normal, you just reduce the cold tap a little.


 A few months ago, I was shopping around for a water heater. I called Rheem, spoke to technician, and was told that the default temperature is 120 degrees Fahrenheit for the "Performance Platinum 80 gal. Tall 12 Year 5500/5500-Watt Elements Electric Water Heater with LCD Touch Control Display" model.

So here's the issues with water heater temperature: too high and it uses a lot of electricity and could cause burns, too low and it makes showering unpleasant and allows bacteria to grow.

It is my understanding that 120 degrees Fahrenheit is the sweet spot of where water heater temperature should be and that temperature is also recommended by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Regarding the issue of bacteria growth in water heaters, I understand that 122 degrees Fahrenheit is enough to kill Legionella, the bacteria that causes Legionnaires' Disease. I honestly don't know if that amount is one of those "we added extra degrees to be safe" or "its derived from a centigrade measure that was translated to Fahrenheit, then translated back and forth a lot" or whatever. IMHO, 123 seems like a safe temperature, but I haven't taken a biology class since high school. 

Also, from what I've read, 118 is sort of the minimum of where a water heater should be set. Off by a smidge and (in theory) Legionella could grow.


----------



## Bob Sanders

LeakyHawaiiRoof said:


> It is my understanding that 120 degrees Fahrenheit is the sweet spot of where water heater temperature should be and that temperature is also recommended by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.


It depends on the circumstance. 120 degrees is actually too cool to support most dishwashers which don't have a built in sanitation cycle. I work with the Health departent a fair bit and they actually test the maximum temperature of dishwashers and they usually fail if the incoming water temp is less than 140 degrees.

Of course these days more and more machines are coming standard with built in sanitation cycles with makes the 140 degree standard kind of moot, but you do need to check the minimum recommended water temp for your dishwasher before you make any changes.


----------



## westleykarcher

arvanlaar said:


> I feel your pain. My wife and I bought a 135 year old home that was built and modified by a complete moron. Insulation is suspect and for sure not in the floors, the doors are cut uneven so they are not square and have large gaps plus sooooo many other issues. Our Bill for January and February is most likely going to be close to $900.... :S
> 
> Best temporary solution is to stuff towels in the door crack and hang heavy curtains. Also, bubble wrap on the windows does miracles. You can also use tealight terracota planter heaters that are a great way to heat a room without electricity. Have a look here http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog/how-to-make-a-candle-heater.htm
> 
> There are several variations of that design so find one that works best for you


I thought my electric bill was high... my $600 in Jan is nothing compared to your $900. I have a two story with about 4000 square ft that's all electric. I have storm windows which seem to make a big difference. I plan to install a few 250 watt solar panels with a grid tie in. Don't want to mess with batteries right now. If I see some noticeable savings from 1000 watts of solar I plan to expand it with another 2000 watts of panels.


----------



## Windows on Wash

$600 is certainly not cheap by any stretch of imagination.

If you haven't looked in the air sealing and insulation, you absolutely should.


----------



## LeakyHawaiiRoof

westleykarcher said:


> I thought my electric bill was high... my $600 in Jan is nothing compared to your $900. I have a two story with about 4000 square ft that's all electric. I have storm windows which seem to make a big difference. I plan to install a few 250 watt solar panels with a grid tie in. Don't want to mess with batteries right now. If I see some noticeable savings from 1000 watts of solar I plan to expand it with another 2000 watts of panels.


What? Your electricity bill was $600 last month? And you live in Texas right? So, at um 12 cent a kWh, that 5000 kWh. For a 4000 sqft home, huh?

Can I ask, how do you use 5000 kWh in a month?


----------



## westleykarcher

My bad... that's the total bill, sewer, water, irrigation, ems, garbage and electric. I don't pay it so I don't know the breakdown... I just hear the wife say what the total was. I pay the mortgage and she pays the utilities. :thumbup:


----------



## westleykarcher

I couldn't find our largest $600 bill, but I did find a bill that reflects our normal usage... we normally use about 1875 at $210 a month. :wink:


----------



## Bob Sanders

westleykarcher said:


> I couldn't find our largest $600 bill, but I did find a bill that reflects our normal usage... we normally use about 1875 at $210 a month. :wink:


That's still quite a bill for living in Texas. I'm in Manitoba and heat electrically. We get cold here... about -35 to -45 in the dead of Winter. I'm burning a little over 5000kw a month and that sets us back about $450 (including taxes).

Do you operate a heat pump at all or is this straight resistive heat you're on?


----------



## westleykarcher

Bob Sanders said:


> That's still quite a bill for living in Texas. I'm in Manitoba and heat electrically. We get cold here... about -35 to -45 in the dead of Winter. I'm burning a little over 5000kw a month and that sets us back about $450 (including taxes).
> 
> Do you operate a heat pump at all or is this straight resistive heat you're on?


It's a Trane 5000 ton a/c and heating unit with no heat pump. It has resistance heating coils. We do pay alot more for electric here in the city because we have only one provider.


----------



## beenthere

westleykarcher said:


> It's a Trane 5000 ton a/c and heating unit with no heat pump.



Well that explains it. It cost 600 bucks just to start up a 5,000 ton A/C. :laughing:


----------



## westleykarcher

beenthere said:


> Well that explains it. It cost 600 bucks just to start up a 5,000 ton A/C. :laughing:


Omg I just saw what I typed there and why I got that response. Yea... take off three zeros. :laughing:


----------



## beenthere

Heat pump will be much cheaper to operate.


----------



## westleykarcher

beenthere said:


> Heat pump will be much cheaper to operate.


I heard a heat pump would be cheaper. Our winters here are pretty mild though. Not sure I want to go that route considering we usually only have about two weeks of freezing temps during Winter. I think tomorrow's high here in Central Texas is going to be in the mid 70s already.


----------

