# Difference between carpenter and framer



## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Carpenters are involved in many different kinds of construction, from the building of highways and bridges to the installation of kitchen cabinets. Carpenters construct, erect, install, and repair structures and fixtures made from wood and other materials. 
Each carpentry task is somewhat different, but most involve the same basic steps. Working from blueprints or instructions from supervisors, carpenters first do the layout—measuring, marking, and arranging materials—in accordance with local building codes. They cut and shape wood, plastic, fiberglass, or drywall using hand and power tools, such as chisels, planes, saws, drills, and sanders. They then join the materials with nails, screws, staples, or adhesives. In the last step, carpenters do a final check of the accuracy of their work with levels, rules, plumb bobs, framing squares, and surveying equipment, and make any necessary adjustments. 
When working with prefabricated components, such as stairs or wall panels, the carpenter’s task is somewhat simpler because it does not require as much layout work or the cutting and assembly of as many pieces. Prefabricated components are designed for easy and fast installation and generally can be installed in a single operation.
Some carpenters do many different carpentry tasks, while others specialize in one or two. Carpenters who remodel homes and other structures, for example, need a broad range of carpentry skills. As part of a single job, for example, they might frame walls and partitions, put in doors and windows, build stairs, install cabinets and molding, and complete many other tasks. Because these carpenters are so well-trained, they often can switch from residential building to commercial construction or remodeling work, depending on which offers the best work opportunities.
Carpenters who work for large construction contractors or specialty contractors may perform only a few regular tasks, such as constructing wooden forms for pouring concrete, o erecting scaffolding. Some carpenters build tunnel bracing, or brattices, in underground passageways and mines to control the circulation of air through the passageways and to worksites. Others build concrete forms for tunnel, bridge, or sewer construction projects. 
Carpenters employed outside the construction industry perform a variety of installation and maintenance work. They may replace panes of glass, ceiling tiles, and doors, as well as repair desks, cabinets, and other furniture. Depending on the employer, carpenters install partitions, doors, and windows; change locks; and repair broken furniture. In manufacturing firms, carpenters may assist in moving or installing machinery. (For more information on workers who install machinery, BOB Go with a remodeling contractor/ carpenter.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

bluefitness said:


> What is the difference between the two? Do framers just construct housing (install walls, trusses, etc)? Are all framers considered carpenters? I need to replace a header and I'm not sure of the correct terminology.


As stated by bob, carpentry covers a large area of the construction trades, building industry, and specialty areas. 

There are carpenters that don't do alot of framing. 

There are framers, that only do rough framing, and no other kinds of carpentry.

There are framers that do rough framing, trim-out, and siding.

So to answer your particular questions: 



bluefitness said:


> Do framers just construct housing (install walls, trusses, etc)?


Yes.
That catagory of "Frame Carpentry" (or frame carpenters) - refers specifically to those that build/construct the rough framing of wood-frame structures.



bluefitness said:


> Are all framers considered carpenters?


No.
Many framers are skilled at multiple levels of the trades. But there are some that are limited in their knowledge and training to just rough framing (little, to no-knowledge, of finished carpentry)


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

Don't let a framer do any finish work. Their idea of a finish nail is a 12d and a trim piece is a 2x2.


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## bluefitness (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the comments. I have one more question. I noticed that different terminology is used for framing. For example with the header assembly, I have heard the supporting studs called jacks and trimmers. The adjacent stud is referred to as king or common stud. Does it just depend on the person you are speaking to? What is the proper terminology, or is there no difference?


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

Marvin Gardens said:


> Don't let a framer do any finish work. .


I second that. Not painting framers as bad carpenters, it's just that it is two different mindsets about the speed and accuracy of the work.


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## CrpntrFrk (Nov 4, 2008)

bluefitness said:


> Thanks for the comments. I have one more question. I noticed that different terminology is used for framing. For example with the header assembly, I have heard the supporting studs called jacks and trimmers. The adjacent stud is referred to as king or common stud. Does it just depend on the person you are speaking to? What is the proper terminology, or is there no difference?


No difference. Kinda like sheetrock/drywall.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

troubleseeker said:


> I second that. Not painting framers as bad carpenters, it's just that it is two different mindsets about the speed and accuracy of the work.


Exactly.

Framers do a great job at putting up a building.

I look at a carpenter as an all around woodworker who can do a lot of different kinds of wood work especially in remodeling. Framers get lost when they have to tear apart something and alter a wall to put in a door or window and then replace the siding in the new opening.


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## BuiltByMAC (Jan 31, 2008)

bluefitness said:


> Difference between carpenter and framer?


Cut Tolerances:

Framer - within an 1/8" (uses a carpenter pencil to mark cuts)
Carpenter - 1/32" or higher (uses a utility knife to mark cuts)

Mac


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## super carpenter Rob (Oct 28, 2008)

In Cincinnati we use the term cripple for a short stud that supports a header and stud for the standard sizes,A framer is a carpenter that mostly frames,I worked on a metal stud framing job were a couple guys said they couldn't use a saw.Me as a carpenter I do roofing,tile,decks,steps,install cabinets,windows,molding including crown,baseboard,chair rail,door casting,window sills,frame new homes,room additions,I mostly rehab which a lot different than new construction.You will find a lot of guys that can build new but have problems rehabbing,The problem is with new you are in control if you have square foundation you can build a square building,Now take an old house that has settle a bit you have doors out of square,floors out of level so you can't take anything for granted. I love it but there are always things to figure out plaster seperates from the lathe. I have worked on them where the floor was out 6" from one corner to the other and the owner wants the floor level.Carpentry is a trade where you keep learnig regards Rob


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## Promontoryrider (Sep 11, 2009)

A carpenter hand nails while framing to have the control offered by hand nailing the lumber and will use finishing nailers for trim. The framer will use a nail gun to frame and hand nail the trim!


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

Promontoryrider said:


> A carpenter hand nails while framing to have the control offered by hand nailing the lumber and will use finishing nailers for trim. The framer will use a nail gun to frame and hand nail the trim!


You really have no idea what you are talking about.:no:


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## ARI001 (Jun 26, 2009)

To OP:
Cripple: A stud that does not extend all the way from the the bottom plate to the top plate, due to an opening in the wall.
Header: A horizontal member carrying loads from other members and directing the loads around an opening.
Jack/ Trimmer stud: A short beam or stud that supports the header over a opening to transfer structural loads from header top bottom plate. Terminology is interchangeable and somewhat geographical in nature. 
King stud: Full length stud on either side of opening.
Stud: A vertical framing member. Conventional construction commonly uses 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 spaced 16" or 24" O.C.
Plate: A horizontal framing member used to tie together interior and exterior wall framing. The width of the plate corresponds to the thickness of the wall. Typically each wall has three plates: a bottom (may be called a sole plate or sill plate) and two top plates.
I think the definition of a carpenter and the various aspects of what they do has been fairly well covered and as this thread is nearly a year old this is probably a useless post.


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## Peterw (Sep 16, 2009)

About $20


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## Peterw (Sep 16, 2009)

If things don't change, they will stay as they are!


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Peterw said:


> About $20


 I thought it was about 1/8 of an inch! :laughing:


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## framerman (Mar 30, 2008)

Good Lord, I need to straighten this thread out. I consider myself in the highest regard a framer. Not a rough framer, but a framer. 1/16" accuracy. I do not sit around and do just framing, it's just what I prefer to do (or had preferred, getting a little sore in the knees) I have been doing custom carpentry for the last few years and my tolerances are 32nds.



Marvin Gardens said:


> Don't let a framer do any finish work. Their idea of a finish nail is a 12d and a trim piece is a 2x2.


This is absolutely one of the most presumptuous statements I have ever heard. In every trade, there are going to be hacks. If you hire Bob, with a few teeth missing, wearing last weeks shirt, rolling up in a Pinto, and cutting with a 12 tooth general purpose blade on a worm drive, then you get exactly what you pay for, whether a framer or a carpenter.



bluefitness said:


> Thanks for the comments. I have one more question. I noticed that different terminology is used for framing. For example with the header assembly, I have heard the supporting studs called jacks and trimmers. The adjacent stud is referred to as king or common stud. Does it just depend on the person you are speaking to? What is the proper terminology, or is there no difference?


There are regional differences. It's a king stud yes, but it's also simply a stud.



Marvin Gardens said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Framers do a great job at putting up a building.
> 
> I look at a carpenter as an all around woodworker who can do a lot of different kinds of wood work especially in remodeling. Framers get lost when they have to tear apart something and alter a wall to put in a door or window and then replace the siding in the new opening.


Well, I thank you for that first comment, but I don't agree one bit with your last comment.



Promontoryrider said:


> A carpenter hand nails while framing to have the control offered by hand nailing the lumber and will use finishing nailers for trim. The framer will use a nail gun to frame and hand nail the trim!


I don't know if I dare make a comment about that. That's just ridiculous and untrue.



Peterw said:


> About $20


Now we have a winner! :laughing:


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## II Weeks (Jan 6, 2009)

I do all types of home remodeling and theres a huge difference between carpenters like me and framers. I have a lot of respect for those guys and what they do. They make framing look easy and its not.


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## NailedIt (Jun 19, 2009)

I wish I'd have gotten in on this thread while it was still active... Anyway, I am a framer when I'm subcontracting rough framing from a builder or contractor, I'm a remodeler when I'm remodeling, and I'm a carpenter when I'm working with trim/finish work. I don't consider "framer" a derogatory title, but it IS used that way sometimes. There are lots of "production framers", mostly toothless wretches that you'd find drinking beer in the porta-johns all over the country, they mostly can't cut conventional roofs, build acceptable stairs, or solve any problem they encounter without wasting a truckload of material. I specialize in framing new construction, window and door replacement, structural repairs, remodeling etc... I do stucco demo and repair, rot repair, whatever else somebody believes I can do and approaches me with that I believe I can do, I do that. Sometimes I do part of it and hire someone else who specializes in the aspect of the job I don't know. That's how things get done most of the time. I work with engineers, building officials, contractors, builders, homeowners, realtors, vendors, etc... What does that make me? I'm a _______ . I don't know. I build multiple pitch roofs from scratch, then next job replace 200 windows/sliding glass doors, then install interior trim, then back to framing a 3-story Comfort Inn... What am I?

You guys leave out the woodworkers that build furniture with knives and chisels, they're carpenters too, eh? I get bent out of shape when my wife tells her friends I'm a construction worker...


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm a retired electrician! I did build my own house when I was younger and the most enjoyable part of doing this was the framing!
I formed up the footings for this house! I laid the concrete blocks for the basement! I framed and sheeted the structure. I shingled the roof! I finished the interior.
An as an electrician, I installed the electrical. (plumbing also)!
Having done this, I think that my true calling was to be a 'framer'. Its probably the most challenging and satisfying of the trades.
Me thinks, that if I were to live life over, I would be a framing carpenter!


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## cellophane (Sep 29, 2009)

ARI001 said:


> To OP:
> Cripple: A stud that does not extend all the way from the the bottom plate to the top plate, due to an opening in the wall.
> Header: A horizontal member carrying loads from other members and directing the loads around an opening.
> Jack/ Trimmer stud: A short beam or stud that supports the header over a opening to transfer structural loads from header top bottom plate. Terminology is interchangeable and somewhat geographical in nature.
> ...



http://www.architectionary.com/DoorFraming

that has a nice illustration showing all the different framing pieces, other than a sill plate.


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## Kevin M. (Nov 26, 2009)

HMMM!

At one time, many moons ago, men who built structures out of wood were referred to as carpenters. You would frame, install sheet rock, install doors, trim, cabinets roof and even paint. Apparently the building culture advanced to a place where a specific function is designated and designed to offer a more repetitious endeavor resulting in more productivity, which is important in our greedy go for gain culture. 

A real carpenter can frame and finish and even more. OK, doesn't make sense in the bottom line culture we live in, but who really cares about that anyway. A carpenter builds because it is in his blood. :yes:

My 2 cents.


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## carpenter377 (Dec 26, 2009)

check with your local building trades local and get a qualified carpenter for your project.Union Carpenter are highly skilled and trained people who do the job right .


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

bluefitness said:


> What is the difference between the two? Do framers just construct housing (install walls, trusses, etc)? Are all framers considered carpenters? I need to replace a header and I'm not sure of the correct terminology.


You can do a search for header terminology and get all the answers yuo need, with pictures.
I don't understand the need to know who does what if you're doing it yourself. If your as inexperienced as your posts suggests and are about to consider structural changes in a wall, you will not get anywhere the total knowlege you need from a web site. It's a lot more then being familiar with the proper terms.
To do this safely, you need onsite guidance.
Ron


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## framerman (Mar 30, 2008)

carpenter377 said:


> check with your local building trades local and get a qualified carpenter for your project.Union Carpenter are highly skilled and trained people who do the job right .


Unions have zero to do with finding qualified carpenters. Qualified carpenters are best found from referral, whether union or not.


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