# Sonotubes are garbage!!! Never again



## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

I bought the commercial variety sonotube forms that are supposed to take up to 72 hours of exposure to moisture.

It rained one night for 4 hours on and off (we got 1/4 inch total) and every one of them has gone bad. 

The sonotubes were not sitting in any puddled water at all.. just the moisture from the rain as they sit vertically in their place.

The inside paper has curled in about a half inch where the paper meets the spiral inside. 
Everyone of them is like this.

Suggestions?


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Well, gee. They aren't made to sit out in the rain. The moisture they are talking about is the moisture from the concrete that you will be pouring in them. After the cure, the sonotubes will degrade and go away naturally.


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

chandler48 said:


> Well, gee. They aren't made to sit out in the rain. The moisture they are talking about is the moisture from the concrete that you will be pouring in them. After the cure, the sonotubes will degrade and go away naturally.


Actually, they are made to sit in the rain for up to 72 hours per the sonotube website.
I didn't buy the cheaper version, I bought the commercial blue ones that cost more and are supposed to take wet weather for 72 hours.

I bought these:
http://www.sonotube.com/sonotubeconcreteforms/commercial.aspx
_With rain resistance technology, Sonotube Commercial concrete forms can withstand up to 72 hours of exposure to moisture.

_Any opinions on whether I should still pour? Would the concrete push those curls back out? 

Almost thinking of using a garbage bag to line the inside when I pour.. The sonotubes are only the top 20% of my column.. the part that shows above grade..


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

They are fine but good or bad they will always screw up if you blow concrete in from one side with out paying attention.
If you want to strip them latter, I saw one guy tap a piece of fencing wire down inside and later pulled the wire with a tractor and the tube just ripped open.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

What are you trying to build? Why are you pouring around those pipes? 

You know that any steel needs to be at least 2" from the edge of the concrete.

I looked at a picture from another one of your threads and I'm thinking, "what the heck is that". And now this...You're starting to scare me. :vs_OMG:


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

When you place the concrete, avoid the concrete hitting the side of the sonotubes.
This applies whether they are wet or not. Make sure the truck driver doesn't get rammy with the chute. Spoon it in slowly.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I'm like the others, why would you want them to sit for days without concrete in them? Is this a solar array frame? Do your sonotubes extend to the 6' mark in the ground?


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

kwikfishron said:


> What are you trying to build? Why are you pouring around those pipes?
> 
> You know that any steel needs to be at least 2" from the edge of the concrete.
> 
> I looked at a picture from another one of your threads and I'm thinking, "what the heck is that". And now this...You're starting to scare me. :vs_OMG:


I'm building a ground mount solar system. The 3 inch galvanized pipes extend 40 inches below grade but the concrete columns extend a full 60 inches.

Those sonotubes are 20 inches in diameter and the rebar is 3 inches from any edge.. I know it doesn't look like it but I think that's because the photo doesn't have much for size comparison. The red strap is 1 inch wide.


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

jlhaslip said:


> When you place the concrete, avoid the concrete hitting the side of the sonotubes.
> This applies whether they are wet or not. Make sure the truck driver doesn't get rammy with the chute. Spoon it in slowly.


Thanks! I will make sure it doesn't come out of the chute too quickly and maybe use something to deflect it if needed.


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

chandler48 said:


> I'm like the others, why would you want them to sit for days without concrete in them? Is this a solar array frame? Do your sonotubes extend to the 6' mark in the ground?


There wasn't much choice... It took us a week to put up all those pipes, square it up, make sure the pipes and sonotubes were plumb and level, etc. 

yes, its a solar array frame. 

The sonotubes only extend about 6 to 10 inches below grade.. Beyond that, we used 55 gallon drums which go down a full 60 inches as required by specs.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Shopguy said:


> There wasn't much choice... It took us a week to put up all those pipes, square it up, make sure the pipes and sonotubes were plumb and level, etc.
> 
> yes, its a solar array frame.
> 
> The sonotubes only extend about 6 to 10 inches below grade.. Beyond that, we used 55 gallon drums which go down a full 60 inches as required by specs.


I have never done them that big but we always build a wood frame to tie them to. When they lean a little they are gone fast.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Support the tubes by;
build a 4 piece 2x4 frame to fit over the top line them up square to the line of tubes.
place a 2x4 under it down to the ground and nail thru the tube in the 2x4s
On one end add 8 ft 2x4 nailed and leaning down to the ground nailed to to stake.
Long 2x4 across the top of the frames joining them all together add some more angle braces from the long 2x4s back to the ground so they will be supported in two directions.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Is that just a little paper peeling..... I'll bet the tubes do not feel mushy... and I bet they are still firm..... and you wont have that much hydrostatic pressure at the very top.

I don't use the commercial, and I'm sure mine have done fine after a rain storm.

But, you probably do want some support on them before the trucks arrive in a relatively big pour....if they start to topple/un-plumb during the pour, you'll have a monkey F'n a football senario.


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

UPDATE:
We poured the concrete today and it went far better than I had expected. The concrete truck driver was a skilled professional who was able to snake that discharge chute into places I would have never thought possible. Never once did it touch a sonotube or any of my supports or the structure. 

The sonotubes took the weight of the concrete quite well but I'm still worried about the curling paper inside. 

Yes, the tubes were still firm but I'm worried about the surface finish at a cosmetic level.

The mess of concrete around the tubes is just over flow from the water coming out.. and we did spill a little here and there but it'll just get added to the driveway as crush later on.

I can't say enough about the truck driver.. he was able to put that discharge chute into spaces with only an inch clearance on either side.. I'm going to have to leave some positive reviews for them in the various internet places.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

i wouldn't worry about the peeling paper liner


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

And if the finish bothers you, get a carborundum rubbing stone to clean them up, but they would need to be stripped and rubbed while still green for them to work best. Lotta work though.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Shopguy said:


> UPDATE:
> We poured the concrete today and it went far better than I had expected. The concrete truck driver was a skilled professional who was able to snake that discharge chute into places I would have never thought possible. Never once did it touch a sonotube or any of my supports or the structure.
> 
> *The sonotubes took the weight of the concrete quite well but I'm still worried about the curling paper inside. *
> ...


SHOP GUY...........

It is great to be a perfectionist, or at least cover all your bases when you do a new project and check everything..... but it is a concrete (non designer stamp pour) pier pour and not an interior exposed pier at the Gugenheim Museam...

If you vibrated/rodded correctly, your finish will be fine/excellent for the intended use.... if you did not or missed some vibrating (happens often), you can easily fill it if it is a consideration.

From your depths indicated, and the sizes, and the rebar caging I saw, I personally think you have done a very fine job...

Do things right... but you did.... be easy on yourself....

Good Job....

Best

(By the way, if I ever need the caliber of piers you did, I want to sub it out to you.)


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't get why you buried the pipe. You should have had J bolts at the top of the tubes and then had flat stock welded to the bottom of the pipe and bolted to the top of the tubes (IMO). 

Kudos to you though and good luck with the solar project.

How much power are you anticipating to produce?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> I don't get why you buried the pipe. You should have had J bolts at the top of the tubes and then had flat stock welded to the bottom of the pipe and bolted to the top of the tubes (IMO).
> 
> Kudos to you though and good luck with the solar project.
> 
> How much power are you anticipating to produce?


KWIK.... I see that often, and assumed it was just a method to plumb out /shim your vertical member.......

what is the advantage of that..... (I assume the disadvantage is cost)

Best


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

kwikfishron said:


> I don't get why you buried the pipe. You should have had J bolts at the top of the tubes and then had flat stock welded to the bottom of the pipe and bolted to the top of the tubes (IMO).
> 
> Kudos to you though and good luck with the solar project.
> 
> How much power are you anticipating to produce?


7.56 Kilowatts 
Solarworld Panels and SMA Grid tie inverter.


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## intelpcguy (May 10, 2015)

Around here, on the jobsites I've been on, for light pole bases, after they strip the sonotubes, they always "sack" them for appearance, which is nothing more than quickcrete cement powder mix, used for setting bolt, or patching ( or sacking pole bases ).


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## User02 (Sep 17, 2015)

intelpcguy said:


> Around here, on the jobsites I've been on, for light pole bases, after they strip the sonotubes, they always "sack" them for appearance, which is nothing more than quickcrete cement powder mix, used for setting bolt, or patching ( or sacking pole bases ).


More info please! Can you elaborate on this? What is "Sack" them and how is it done?


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## intelpcguy (May 10, 2015)

sacking is industry slang, it might very well be that they just used pure cement from a 90 lb sack to skim coat the bases to a uniform appearance. But I have seen them use this

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-10-lb-Vinyl-Concrete-Patcher-113311/100318504

to skim over the pole bases once the sono tubes are stripped, as you almost never get a perfect finish with just the tube and ( even if you vibrate the cement ). The product is mixed to a trowelable but thin consistency and then trowel applied over the base and lightly troweled, sponged or brushed finished off ( depending on what look you are trying to achieve). It will dry to a light grey pretty uniform color.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

It comes from takeing a rough poured wall that will have visability, and filling the voids/honey-comb etc with cement, and then using burlap to smooth/lightly roughen it out such that it appears consistant.


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