# Electric Baseboard Heat - relay problem?



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It could be the relay. It could also be the hole in the wall where the thermostat wires come through.


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## sporkman (Nov 21, 2010)

beenthere said:


> It could be the relay. It could also be the hole in the wall where the thermostat wires come through.


Oh, also I did go ahead and disconnect the thermostat for one test - the one set of heaters continued to produce heat...

I did think of the new thermostat being more finicky about drafts or something, but I've narrowed it down to just one section of the heaters. The way the relay is wired is that there's a single input from the thermostat and then two relays internally - one for the west side of the apartment, one for the east. I turned off the breaker for the west side heaters and the east continues to function normally.

Apparently the relay also has a "bimetal" strip that is used as some type of delay mechanism - perhaps that's stuck. 

But can I pretty much assume after narrowing it down to one heater strip/circuit that the thermostat is OK and that the relay is what's going nuts?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Fairly safe to believe that.

The bimetal may be getting weak, and unable to move back to the open position anymore. or the relay can be going bad as in generating heat itself and keeping the bimetal warm/hot.

However. Although I know that relay can go out anytime it wants.

Your landlord may want to say it went out because you wired up your new thermostat wrong, and damaged it.

Be carefull how you approach him about this. And you may not want to tell your diagnostic procedure to the guy he sends to fix it. Since that guy works for him. And reports to him.


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## sporkman (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

The landlord drama is what it is. His goal is to never pay for outside help, mine is to have the heat working with some assurance it's safe. I'm not totally thrilled that one of the failure modes of the relay is to run the heat continuously... I was just out of the country for two weeks, if this would have happened then, that would have been bad. As far as I know the heating units themselves don't have any cutoff. They've been painted over so many times that I can find no indication of a make/model.

If he wants to blame this on the thermostat, that's kind of nuts. It's two wires - close the connection, heat goes on - open the connection, heat goes off. But if playing dumb is the best bet, I can do that.  I will tell him the truth - I had to cut the breaker to stop the heat.

I'm having a hard time dating this place - it's a large standalone 2-car garage with a full second floor that's now an apartment. All the original power outlets are 3-prong, so I think that puts it somewhere after 1970. The unpainted drywall in the garage is tan/brown rather than white or grey. The floor tiles are asbestos, which I think dates it to before the 80's. The heating units look to be part of the original construction - all the wiring for them is properly routed behind the drywall, as is the thermostat wire. I guess my point here is that the relay unit is probably at least 30 years old...


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Is it one of these relays, 841 instead of 814:

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/UI/Pages/Catalog/ComponentCategory.aspx?Catalog=Homes&Category=Relays_33134&ChannelID={2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}


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## sporkman (Nov 21, 2010)

yuri said:


> Is it one of these relays, 841 instead of 814:


Yes, I was repeatedly making that mistake on the model #. If I had to guess, I'd say the 841E:

http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/60-0000s/60-2004.pdf

That doc sort of suggests that there's not a true "relay" in there. It says that on the thermostat calling for heat, a heater in the enclosure causes the bimetal to basically push a switch. Perhaps I need to pull the cover off this just to see what's in there.

I hate getting anywhere near AC. Makes me super-jittery.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

*NO*. Do you want to get electrocuted/damage it /cause it to arc and spark and start a fire/burn the place down/ be liable?? I work on electric furnaces and we are talking SERIOUS amounts of current and high voltage here. At least they are not obsolete. Now call the rentalsman and have them lean on the landlord. Tell the rentalsman you feel it is unsafe as one of the heaters won't shut off/is running wild.


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