# Mold Abatement



## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Well, in a nutshell, mould abatement can require the use of chemical disinfectants and the classes I can think of are sodium hypochlorite and the whole family of quaternary ammonium compounds, of which Shockwave and the Foster products are two examples. But there is more to mould containment than just spraying on Product X and forgetting about it because we all know that's a fools paradise.

It's abit like saying "we have a Volkswagon Jetta and a Chevrolet Optra, both 2.3 litre...which one will get us to the office better...? 

I remember selling quaternary ammonium compounds by the barrel at $1 a pound, and the cheapest one was and is still the best - and the one still used in mould abatement and general purpose disinfecting today. And that was back in the 80's!

I see that Sporicidin is a phenolic type disinfectant. These have largely been surpassed by the quaternaries and IMO are less effective and more costly; yon mention VOC's...those are the perfumes they use and Sporicidin would have more of a "VOC" problem that the quats...what prompted you to go for Sporicidin if your wife is allergic? You were probably swayed by the sales talk IMO. Too bad.


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

Thank you for the response! I purchased the Sporicidin because it was readily available and my wife was asking for something other than the Shockwave. I'll have to look into a janitorial supply place to try to find one of the quat compounds locally. 

The cleanup process I plan to follow is:
1) Disinfect with one of the materials that we are discussing
2) Clean with a 50/50 bleach and water solution and a wire brush
3) Seal with, at the very least, Kilz or something more industrial if I can get a hold of it in the next few days. I have one can of Serpiflex on the way.
4) Have a contractor come in and fix the problem with the windows leaking in the first place.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Sounds like a good plan to me; start with a 50:50 water/bleach solution with a sponge, not a wire brush, and let dry. Don't soak drywall, just wet it. Then apply the quat. Not all quats have excessive perfumes in them as the worng perfume ingredient can messs up the quat, so ask the janitorial company if they have an odourless quat...hopefully they will.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.


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## ant7000 (Sep 16, 2008)

Just try "Concrobium Mold Control" contains no bleach, ammonia or VOCs prevents and inhibits mold growth I've tried this in my house and it seems to work pretty good plus I don't have to worry about the chemicals. You can pick it up at any home depot for about $10.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

While on the subject of mold. If mold doesn't get any moisture, will it continue to be a problem!
Does it become dormant if dampness is prevented!


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

As I understand it (and anyone, feel free to contradict), mold can not thrive with less than 50% Rh, which our dehumidifier does comfortably, BUT mold responds to periods of drought with a release of spores, hence the bleach and sealant. I also recall that the key is to interrupt the moisture cycle as often as possible and eventually it will become as inert as it is going to get.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Four things are necessary for growth of normally found molds in construction materials. Mold spores, which are everywhere. Temperatures in the range of 40-100 degrees F (that's why we refrigerate foods). A food source (organic materials, such as wood and paper facing facing on drywall). Relative humidity of 60% or greater or an active water source of 0.6. Certain species of molds will thrive in different combinations of temperature and humidity conditions. Some mold species will live on and consume other species as conditions change. Some less common molds will thrive in conditions radically different than those above (molds have been found in Antarctica for example). Mold colonies will produce spores while they are actively growing. When an organic building material is returned to it's relatively normal state, such as having been dried to normal levels of RH, mold growth ceases and the colony will become dormant. For short periods, the colony may remain intact and can become active once again if the material is again rewetted. If the colony remains dry it can basically fall apart into its base components. These components can be a source of allergic reactions to sensitive people, which is why mold should not only be killed, but cleaned up. Undisturbed, the spores left behind by the colony will generate new colonies if the supporting material reaches a temperature/humidity level to promote growth. 

That is a very brief description of part of the life of a mold. There are thousands and thousands of species of molds. Some are very uncommon, while others are everywhere. All require an organic food source that we easily provide in our homes and buildings.


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks! That's a great explanation!


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

I agree! Thanks for your contribution!


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Rubu said:


> have the drywall off. We've also got some Serpiflex (really for asbestos containment) coming to seal the wood after the treatment. Anybody ever use this? How's the odor?



Once it is really nice and dry, assuming it is not an area that is going to get wet again, I would seal it up with shellac. You can get BIN Shellac from Zinsser at most paint stores.

Jamie


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks Jamie, but I just looked at the MSDS for that Shellac... 550 g/l VOC is pretty high. My wife would be walking around here with a respirator for weeks.
The Serpiflex is 76.1 g/l, which is well under the EPA "Low VOC" standard of 250 g/L for latex paints or 380 g/L for oil based paint


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

Ooooooo. Just found this *Zero* VOC sealer that is actively moldicidal for 25 years... Forticel from Protective Coatings Group, LLC in my home town, Charleston, SC. Here's the MSDS ... anybody ever heard of it?


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I *love* products where the MSDSs list the all the components as "Proprietary Ingredients"...i.e. "_we don't want you to know what we're selling you because either some of these ingredients may be toxic or they're too common to do any good - but you'll buy it won't you? and we haven't tested it but take our word for it" _

:no:

And all that from a 'Limited Liabiity Company' with no address... Wow. Nice to know they intend on taking responsibility for the danger moulds may present to you and your family and isn't is reassuring to know they'll even be around when they get called into court.


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

Good point about the unlisted ingredients, but there are business locations listed for PCG in the MSDS and their web site, under "contact us".


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Rubu said:


> Thanks Jamie, but I just looked at the MSDS for that Shellac... 550 g/l VOC is pretty high. My wife would be walking around here with a respirator for weeks.
> The Serpiflex is 76.1 g/l, which is well under the EPA "Low VOC" standard of 250 g/L for latex paints or 380 g/L for oil based paint


For what it is worth, it is alcohol based and alcohol evaporates and dissipates rapidly. I suspect most of it's voc number is due to the alcohol content. 


Jamie


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

That's good to know, thanks again!


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

I would also like you to be aware that the base material for true shellac is organic and could be a food source for molds. A latex stain sealer like Kilz or Zinsser is what we use on materials that cannot be removed and replaced.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Maintenance 6 said:


> I would also like you to be aware that the base material for true shellac is organic and could be a food source for molds. A latex stain sealer like Kilz or Zinsser is what we use on materials that cannot be removed and replaced.


I based my comment on information provided by Zinsser:

Regarding BIN Shellac (they are speaking of water damaged burnt environments where mold is rampant): 

Biocidal effect – Alcohol is a well-known biocide and shellac resin is not a particularly tasty food
source for mildew. This makes shellac an excellent choice for application to mildew-stained and
mildew-prone surfaces in an environment where mold and mildew spores are rampant.


-Jamie


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Well alrighty then. Shellac would not be my top pick, but if Zinnser says it will work, who am I to argue? It may be a case where they are blending it with other materials. I've seen mold growing on shellaced wood trim in older homes but it could be a case of the mold eating the dust embedded in the finish. Shellac softens at pretty low temperatures and will absorb dirt and surface crud. It is pretty inert though. 

You have to watch the wording on some of these products. Many things are "biocidal" and will kill bacterias which are pretty fragile. Biocidal does not necessarily mean fungicidal. Some mold spores are tough cased critters. Incidentally, alcohol is a product of the consumption of sugars by fungi (fermentation process by yeasts).


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## Rubu (Sep 16, 2008)

FYI: I contacted one of the more highly recommended Mold remediation companies here to see what the industry was touting this year and was directed to the EPA site regarding mold where, he said, they are basically saying that plain old soap and water is the recommended cleanup agent now, and that the use of biocides or chlorine bleach is overkill, except in special circumstances, such as around Immuno-surpressed individuals or those with extreme allergic reactions... like my wife. She reacts to a few parts per billion of Penicillum or Aspergillis like somebody hit her in the face with a mallet. 

I'm in the middle of finding and treating individual areas under my windows where the moisture barrier has been compromised by nail holes (more on that in another thread) and I exposed a new area with mold yesterday and attempted to clean the area with just soap and water and afterwards removed the dried residue with a HEPA vac, and her reaction upon coming home was much worse than the reaction to the areas where the cleanup involved the Sporicidin and the 50/50 bleach mix. I guess I'll keep using the biocides and bleach, but for most of you, soap (detergent, not surfactant) and water will suffice to kill and clean mold, as long as the residue or contaminated materials are removed and the source of the moisture stopped.

The most useful sections of the EPA site seem to be:
*"A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home"*

*"Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings"*

Thanks everyone for their input in this thread. I know that there are as many methods of dealing with this problem as there are people doing it, and I know the guidelines regarding the products are ambiguous, but it's good to compare once in a while.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks for the reply...one issue I have is the use of soap, known as the reaction product of an oil, or a fatty acid, and an alkali. Soap thus obtained is not free-rinsing and some residue remains after rinsing. Given that many soaps use natural fatty acids or oils and their residue could provide a food source for mould, then I would tend to go for a bottle of detergent rather than a soap product for that reason.

Many detergent products are free-rinsing and some are derived from petroleum derivatives containing phenols. Those are the nonionics. Seems to me a detergent residue, if any, might contribute to mold abatement...IMO anyway.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

It's unfortunate that your wife is apparently one of those relatively few individuals that suffers from hypersensitivity to things like molds. In my previous post, I made the statement that mold spores can be tough cased critters. I do not wish for that to be mis-construed. Mold spores are generally tougher than other micro-organisms, but are not bullet proof. Many, many things will kill mold spores. Mold remediation is still an evolving industry and pretty much un-regulated. There are more than a few companies promoting mis-information about mold in order to sell magic formulas to do something that practically any household cleaner will do at a fraction of the cost (and in some cases, much more safely). Some of these products come with thier whole set of "side effects" that could be worse than the effects of the molds themselves. I'm sure you realize that Sporicin is a glutaraldehyde based product and that glutaraldehyde has generated it's own raging debate and a set of NIOSH exposure standards of it's own. (A case of the cure being worse than the disease?) Unfortunately, there are plenty of people out there who are disseminating mis-leading information in order to further thier own agendas, selling magic potions, performing expensive and often un-necessary remediation or selling "deadly mold" test kits. At present, no one central organization can be quoted as the supreme authority on molds. Until that happens, the best you can hope to do is investigate all of the information. Sort out the hype and B.S., and formulate your own plan. Personally, I find the best information has come from the EPA and the NIH (National Institute of Health). For what it's worth, infection control authorities recommend no greater than 10% bleach concentrations be used indoors. 10% will kill practically any organism you are likely to encounter and will minimize the production of irritant gases such as chloroform and others.


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