# Insulating in Cramped Ceiling Space



## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

Put baffles in, air seal before ceiling goes up --- dense pack cellulose in once ceiling is up - done
Air Sealing: Attic Baffles (thehtrc.com)


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Problem is I can't get to that area between the eave and ac duct in photos to pack cellulose in once the ceiling is up.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

Recommended Home Insulation Levels


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## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

It is a blown in product & you can easily blow it over & under that duct. The baffle keeps it from the sheathing & filling the soffit


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

SLSTech said:


> It is a blown in product & you can easily blow it over & under that duct. The baffle keeps it from the sheathing & filling the soffit


I've never used an insulation blower; I was going to put the insulation in by hand. Is a blower something you can rent?


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## b.rooster4321 (Apr 22, 2020)

Yes box stores , buy cellulose and rent same place 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

idk if Home Depot still does it. but if you bought so many bags, you got the machine rental free.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

$88 four hours, $125 a day. And I have an adjoining bathroom space I need to insulate as well that isn't ready yet (ceiling is out).


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i guess they changed it. btw, you need 2 people to operate it.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> $88 four hours, $125 a day. And I have an adjoining bathroom space I need to insulate as well that isn't ready yet (ceiling is out).


You will need air chutes down to the soffit and some way to block the rest of the space to keep the loose fill out of the soffit.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> and some way to block the rest of the space to keep the loose fill out of the soffit.


i used XPS cutoffs and spray foam.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fix'n it said:


> i used XPS cutoffs and spray foam.


He has to get it there too. 
this the normal here


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> He has to get it there too.
> this the normal here
> View attachment 662501


stuffing fiberglass = gosh darn, wish i had thought of that


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> Problem is I can't get to that area between the eave and ac duct in photos to pack cellulose in once the ceiling is up.


Can you see the opening to the soffet. What is the soffit finish on the outside?


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Can you see the opening to the soffet. What is the soffit finish on the outside?


I was going to climb up over bathtub area and photograph area of soffit vent from inside house; may still be able to do that this evening. If I remember correctly, soffit finish is painted metal. That is what I wanted to do there, stuff fiberglass and fill ceiling with fiberglass batts to just beyond obstructing ac vent pipe in ceiling. I could install cellulose by hand past that point. I do need to install baffles in that area. Having to redo ceiling because drywallers had it up before I was ready.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> I was going to climb up over bathtub area and photograph area of soffit vent from inside house; may still be able to do that this evening. If I remember correctly, soffit finish is painted metal. That is what I wanted to do there, stuff fiberglass and fill ceiling with fiberglass batts to just beyond obstructing ac vent pipe in ceiling. I could install cellulose by hand past that point. I do need to install baffles in that area. Having to redo ceiling because drywallers had it up before I was ready.


Painted metal as in vented? 
If you can't get in any other way you have to remove more drywall to install chutes and bats in that area. 
I helped a friend on a low slope roof. we removed 16" of drywall front and back full width of house. 
He only had about 2 ft to crawl in under the peak.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> I do need to install baffles in that area.


 no. but if you want to do it right. do you have ridge vents on that part of the roof, or close by ?
now, say that area is always shielded by tree/whatever shade = may not make a difference


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I have room to install baffles if I remove the bad piece of ceiling. Area that needs the baffles is just over my head. The roof does have ridge vents as well as gable vents, but not shaded by trees on this bathroom. I think I need to add more photos.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

There is only one soffit vent in this area, as shown in first photo. Second photo shows vent pipe for washer, and that vent is directly in line with pipe, covered by drywall I haven't removed yet so I couldn't get a photo of vent from inside tonight.

. I am not sure if only the one vent in photo feeds fresh air into the attic at that spot and only one baffle is needed, or if baffles are needed in each joist bay. Three photos with square shower light/fan are ceiling above shower, and rest of photos showing insulation are where I aimed camera down into the joist bays behind shower area.

I measured the actual spacing between the lumber right on top of shower wall, and although the ceiling joists are 16" OC, the spacing between the ceiling joists and where the roof supports meet is only 11-12", so am not sure if baffle will fit unless I trim it? Looks like I am learning something new tonight.

Seems to me the photos I took where insulation is is where insulation shouldn't be at all because it's down in the area where the soffit vent is.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> There is only one soffit vent in this area, as shown in first photo. Second photo shows vent pipe for washer, and that vent is directly in line with pipe, covered by drywall I haven't removed yet so I couldn't get a photo of vent from inside tonight.
> 
> . I am not sure if only the one vent in photo feeds fresh air into the attic at that spot and only one baffle is needed, or if baffles are needed in each joist bay. Three photos with square shower light/fan are ceiling above shower, and rest of photos showing insulation are where I aimed camera down into the joist bays behind shower area.
> 
> ...


So you have a vent in the soffet just for show, it goes no where. 
And if it was a working vent is would have bee sucking in the moisture for the bath fan duct that is way too close. 
Have you ever had ice damming and icicles from the roof. 
Air chutes are still a good idea with out vents so heat from the wall can dissipate into the cold air of the roof. 
The bath fan exhaust should be out the roof if you ever want to add soffet vents.
To install soffet vents it would take removing the plywood out there, opening 1 1/2" next to the roof sheeting and add vented aluminum or vinyl vented soffet.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm not sure if that vent is functional, but think it is, or supposed to be. I won't know until I take photos after removing ceiling drywall there. I think there is a hollow space behind that bathroom wall where eave ends and where soffit vent is, but I can't tell with all that cellulose in there. I think it's insulation that fell in there and shouldn't be there. I wish I knew more about soffit vents.

Bathroom fan is vented to outside; I removed the old gas water heater exhaust from roof and installed a Broan bathroom exhaust cap in its place, used an adjustable one-piece solid aluminum duct to join fan to cap, and wrapped entire duct with 3M dryer foil tape. I still need to insulate the duct to prevent condensation on it. You just can't see it in photos because it's short and close to fan.

I've never encountered ice dams. The ceiling was insulated with cellulose before, I just removed it so I could work with the wiring and new lighting.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> I'm not sure if that vent is functional, but think it is, or supposed to be. I won't know until I take photos after removing ceiling drywall there. I think there is a hollow space behind that bathroom wall where eave ends and where soffit vent is, but I can't tell with all that cellulose in there. I think it's insulation that fell in there and shouldn't be there. I wish I knew more about soffit vents.
> 
> Bathroom fan is vented to outside; I removed the old gas water heater exhaust from roof and installed a Broan bathroom exhaust cap in its place, used an adjustable one-piece solid aluminum duct to join fan to cap, and wrapped entire duct with 3M dryer foil tape. I still need to insulate the duct to prevent condensation on it. You just can't see it in photos because it's short and close to fan.
> 
> I've never encountered ice dams. The ceiling was insulated with cellulose before, I just removed it so I could work with the wiring and new lighting.


I guess it depends on the age of the house and how serious they took venting at the time..
The problem is that when air flows out the top vents it is replaced by air from some where, sometimes the house.
So the idea is to have more low vents and high vents so the attic doesn't suck air from the house. 
It could be you only have one vent, or just a few like that. 
If the soffets were level you would have a common area above it so air could get to every bay if there weren't blocked so changing it now would be tricky and or a lot of work. So I don't know what to say if you are not having problems with ice or moisture in the attic.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Our house was built in 1963. It also has three large intake vents in the attic, one in each gable. Reading up on insulation a little, I see that there should be about 9" of insulation near the eaves to prevent ice dams, and this cannot be accomplished with the low eaves of our older home. Problem with our house now is I can feel the afternoon sun heat coming through the roof above the shower in the evenings. I feel like we're camping out right now.

I don't know how appropriate it would be, but one article suggested spraying closed cell foam around the eaves to seal them.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I wonder if I should use rigid foam board, stacked, in that area. I can always cut it to fit. I don't know how it would do around those IC can lights, though. Spray foam in the can?


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## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

Unless they are IC rated - no insulation. If they are IC rated that is only for cellulose & fiberglass. Best to get rid of them & find other options - shoot they have some very slim line versions that look like them & mount to a regular box


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

SLSTech said:


> Unless they are IC rated - no insulation. If they are IC rated that is only for cellulose & fiberglass. Best to get rid of them & find other options - shoot they have some very slim line versions that look like them & mount to a regular box


Can lights are regular In Contact fixtures with Cree LED retrofit bulbs. Do you have an example of the slim line version?

I'm looking for a way to insulate that space above shower where house eave is because it's impossible to get to with ceiling in because of large ac vent pipe in the way.

Wasn't sure whether to use baffles. We rarely snowfall, so not much worry about ice dams, or I wouldn't think so.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Do you mean something like the Globe Electric 6" slim LED lights? I have a few of them. If I used fiberglass batts to insulate in this area, what would I need? Ceiling joists are 2 x 6. Wife and I live in Climate Zone 3. Also, would I need a vapor barrier between the fiberglass and drywall ceiling if I used unfaced fiberglass?


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Most of the spacing between ceiling joists is around 12-14". If I could trim baffles to fit, I could pull all spilled cellulose out of vent bay and install baffles, sealing them to ceiling joist with canned spray foam. Then I could insulate the ceiling joist space with fiberglass. Cellulose would be better, but I don't have any helper to run a two-man machine.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I opened the ceiling where the exterior soffit is this weekend and cleaned the cellulose out of these eaves with a shop vac and extension hose from inside the house as well as I could. Soffit vent is definitely functional as I climbed onto the roof and can see three holes through the screen. I can't see the vent in these photos, but it's there somewhere. These are deep soffits.

All I know to do is install baffles, bending end of it to attach to top of wall plate and insulating with fiberglass from there out to a point where I can get to ceiling with cellulose. I'm just not exactly sure how the baffle attaches to the wall top plate, because I know the top plate is supposed to be covered with insulation.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

DON'T bend the baffle. just put it in so it goes past the top plate. then stuff a good hunk of fiberglass in to seal it.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Fix'n it said:


> DON'T bend the baffle. just put it in so it goes past the top plate. then stuff a good hunk of fiberglass in to seal it.


The baffle just staples to the roofing boards, doesn't it? Do I need a baffle in each rafter bay? Or just in the bay that contains the vent? I can't tell from the photos whether the eave area is interconnected or not. I also can't tell where the soffit vent is from the photos I took. I should've removed the vent and looked up into the eave area while I was on roof. Vent does have three holes drilled through it. I can see them, but like Nealtw said, it may be a false vent someone stuck up there.

Some of the bays are less than 14", too, and that's the smallest baffle width I can find. I'm not sure which thickness fiberglass insulation to use, either, and faced or unfaced. I would think unfaced with plastic vapor barrier between ceiling joists and drywall. R30 is recommended for my area.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> The baffle just staples to the roofing boards, doesn't it?
> 
> Do I need a baffle in each rafter bay? Or just in the bay that contains the vent?



yes. then stuff fiberglass. 

this, i do not know, but i think just the vented bays. now, saying this, idk just how good or bad or neither getting a bunch of blown in in the soffit area is.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> Some of the bays are less than 14", too, and that's the smallest baffle width I can find.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure which thickness fiberglass insulation to use, either, and faced or unfaced. I would think unfaced with plastic vapor barrier between ceiling joists and drywall.


just trim a little and/or make em fit.

unfaced, and make it fit tight'ish and fill all gaps. idk about the vaper barrier, but think none.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

No sure what to do here. I like the idea of installing the baffles and stuffing fiberglass down the chute to seal against the baffles. I was going to order Owens-Corning Raft-R-Mate baffles, but no one around here has them, and they're all 22.5". I guess I could split one of these in half for the bays. Home Depot sells them, but only by the 70 pack. I saw that you can buy it by the 10 pack, but no one has those either.

Should I settle for the Provent baffles at Lowes? They do come in 14" width, but I'd prefer the Owens Corning.


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## SLSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

Those will work fine, or you can try amazon or other online places to see if you can get others shipped in. Not a big fan of the fiberglass plug Air Sealing: Attic Baffles (thehtrc.com) - prefer either cutting it down or using foam board. Speaking of foam - can always buy some 1" board - rip down some 1" strips apply at edges & then put a 14.5" wide piece over that to create your own & increase r-value in that area


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

t


SLSTech said:


> Those will work fine, or you can try amazon or other online places to see if you can get others shipped in. Not a big fan of the fiberglass plug Air Sealing: Attic Baffles (thehtrc.com) - prefer either cutting it down or using foam board. Speaking of foam - can always buy some 1" board - rip down some 1" strips apply at edges & then put a 14.5" wide piece over that to create your own & increase r-value in that area


I understand about making air chutes with the foam board (XPS, maybe?) but what do you glue pieces together with, silicone? Also, do I need to glue vertical pieces from wall top plate up to custom made baffles (Like in the attached photo?) 

Since I am removing the can lights and installing slim 6" LEDs, can I use foam board to insulate ceiling where I can't reach later on (it's just me; any cellulose I install will have to be by hand) or maybe r30 unfaced fiberglass batts?


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Can lights are gone, replaced with slim line 6" LED lighting. I am going to make my own air chutes, custom fit. I can't find any 1" foam board around here; Lowe's has only the DOW R-3 0.55" x 4' x 8' sheets of square edge faced polystyrene garage door foam board insulation with sound barrier. Will this work for chutes? and if so, how far down into cavity should I go below top plate of wall? I'm figuring 2' above top plate to be above insulation. Am I wrong?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> Can lights are gone, replaced with slim line 6" LED lighting. I am going to make my own air chutes, custom fit. I can't find any 1" foam board around here; Lowe's has only the DOW R-3 0.55" x 4' x 8' sheets of square edge faced polystyrene garage door foam board insulation with sound barrier. Will this work for chutes? and if so, how far down into cavity should I go below top plate of wall? I'm figuring 2' above top plate to be above insulation. Am I wrong?


If you are going all the way across with a board you will be getting more than a chute would give you so you just need an inch space above. 
You only need to get to the outside of the wall a bit. 
Mostly what we see here is the guys take 1 ft pice of fibreglass and fold it in two and put that over the wall so the loos fil is kept inside.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Middle photo is what I am thinking of doing. I was just going to use foam board cut to fit instead of wood.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I did forget one thing, Which is the best glue for attaching the foam to wood? Polyurethane adhesive?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> I did forget one thing, Which is the best glue for attaching the foam to wood? Polyurethane adhesive?


if you get a tight fit, just use caulk. otherwise spray foam is your friend.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Before I spend an afternoon building custom baffles (probably incorrectly), will someone tell me if the 11" wide baffle I made is sufficient, or should I have made it as wide as the rafter bay (13") and cut out where the ceiling joist meets the top plate?

I am making custom chutes because some of the rafter bays are 12", 14", etc., and I don't think I could cut a regular 14" baffle down to fit. I'm having trouble with sides of baffle, as well, because it's difficult to cut 1" strips out of foamboard.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

is that 1" foam board ?


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

1/2". I probably should've gotten 1". I figured the 1/2" would give more clearance in that small space. If I need to, I will get 1". It is available.

The board in photo next to ink pen holding up foamboard looks like part of rafter. It is not. It's a horizontal ceiling joist.

Here is a better picture of that same roof area.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I thought about cutting a few 22" Durovent baffles in half, but that may not be enough vent.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

get fanfold


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Just to be curious, how are baffles attached at soffit vent end? Is wood below eaves supposed to be removed to attach baffles in that area?


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

you slide the baffle over the top plate a little, 5-6" ? then you staple it to the roof as best you can. when you put your whatever top plate sealing, that will hold it up enough.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Fix'n it said:


> get fanfold
> 
> I'm not sure how you would use fanfold as attic baffle. Hinges on this stuff are set at 22"
> 
> View attachment 670482


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Thomas Kleaton said:


> I'm not sure how you would use fanfold as attic baffle. Hinges on this stuff are set at 22"


you cut a piece a little wider than the bay, then fold it into a baffle.

how many bays do you have to do ?


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Six bays to finish bathroom. I saw the same tip on a Fine Homebuilding video, only you can use 1" foamboard. Cut board 2" wider than bay, then make 1" cut on each side, 1/2 way through. Bend foam board on cuts and fold over. Now, the tip didn't mention how you attach the foam board to the roof.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

only 6 bays. i would buy 6 baffles, cut em in half long ways, overlap, and glue them back together.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I thought about that. 10 count package of 22" Durovent baffles is only $23 at Home Depot. Heh! I wonder if the PL 300 Foamboard construction adhesive I bought would work. Probably not.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i bet it would


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

So here is what I did this afternoon. I cut some 22" Durovent baffles in half. Vent area in a half-piece is 8" wide and 1" deep, so hopefully that will be enough. I cut bottom of baffle and folded it so it meets outer edge of top plate. I put a staple there to keep bent portion from popping out into eave area until I can seal cracks with Great Foam.

I have not sealed anything yet because I wasn't sure what to do with bay that has vent fan duct in it (last image.) I know I will have to wrap that pipe with insulation to prevent moisture from condensing on it, but am not sure how to vent around it. Pipe vents outside. I thought about putting a couple of pieces of pvc pipe around it and air sealing around them, but am not sure that would be sufficient.

Any ideas? 

Thanks!


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

idk how to deal with the vent


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

I will have to build a bay-width chute around pipe and air seal it. I am just wondering if the chutes I put in will provide enough airflow. Entire baffle is not eight inches wide, just the ventilation portion.


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## Thomas Kleaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Looking this over, I think the baffles I installed are really too small for proper airflow. I am just going to have to make custom baffles out of foamboard, working around the ceiling joists, because of the way this house is built.


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