# Storing Lithium Ion Batteries



## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

I've got my Milwaukee Fuel set on order, and whilst at Hombre Depot yesterday they had a deal I couldn't pass up: M18 flashlight with a 4.0ah battery for half the price of just the battery. So I snapped it up.

Reading the directions for the battery, it said nothing about storing it above freezing. All it said in regards to temperature was not to store it above 120 degrees, and it said it would work below freezing, but would probably buzz before it warmed up.

Would I do harm to the Lithium Ion batteries if I stored them in my unheated workshop during the winter? It generally gets below 0 here, not for extended periods of time, but on occasion.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I don't think it harms the batteries but it definitely makes them hold less charge. At that temp they would probably be dead until warmed and recharged.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I guess I'm old school in my thinking. Keeping batteries in such a cold environment seems like it would shorten the life of those batteries. Maybe that's no longer true with the technology of today..........


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... I'm from a different ole school,... a battery is an electrical storage devise,...

If it won't hold a charge, it's Beat, time for a new one,.....

My batteries, like We're talkin' 'bout _are where ever those tools are_,....
Either in my hand, in the backseat tool storage in my pickup, or out in the unheated garage,...
I Do have a couple spare, unused back-up batteries here in the house sittin' on the shelf,...
I bought a "Six-pack", 'n filled all my tools,..... 

Since I abandoned my Milwaukee 18v tool kit, 'n went all Makita, it seems battery life is much better,....
But that's a poor comparative, as my ole Milwaukee set was the older pre"fuel" batteries,...
I guess a different breed of battery,...

I'm curious whether anybody knows whether leavin' a battery _On_ the charger will do harm to the battery,..??
Charger plugged in, 'n unplugged,..??..??


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

I'd have to do some reading when my charger shows up, but I think it's a smart charger, so it'll shut off when the battery is fully charged. The older style like my Craftsman will cook the battery if you keep it on there too long. 

So I guess I won't worry too much unless the temps get way low.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Lithium batteries are light and powerful, but they don't really like the cold. I have to take all the batteries out of the job trailer and keep them someplace warmer when the temps get low. They seem to work OK once they warm up, and I don't have too much trouble actually using them in the cold, you just can't leave the tool laying around in the cold for long periods then try to use it. Neither cold nor hot batteries will charge, the charger won't allow it because the battery chemistry can become unstable at extreme temps.

The good news is you can charge them at any point, full or partial charges are fine and they have no "memory" like nicad packs. The one thing you don't want to do is store them in a run down state. 

No real need to store them on the charger because lithium's discharge at a much slower rate than other battery types, but once they discharge below a certain point they will no longer charge back up. When in use the circuitry in the battery/tool will cut off power before the battery gets fully depleted. If you fail to charge the battery afterward it will continue to slowly discharge and can get below the fail safe point.

I have plenty of experience with these packs, we have over 40+ lithium batteries including 18v milwaukee lithium, 18v Dewalt lithium and the new 20v Dewalt lithium. Don't have much trouble with cold batteries until you get down into the teens or single digits, that is about the point the cold begins to have a negative effect on both my batteries and me.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

My tools and batteries for same live in an unheated garage...and this winter are used mainly outside (like minus five degrees this morning). Cold just seems to cut into the run time of those that are getting old (batteries and me!). Installing a couple of windows today and had to take the old heat gun out to get the vicor to stick!!


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Ni-cd are less susceptible than Li-ON to cold.


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

My lIon cordless tools live in my construction trailer. It's been anywhere from -10 to the low teens around here, and my drill batteries seem perfectly fine, and they're probably ten years old.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

I guess my main concern is causing permanent damage from them getting too cold. Sounds like that doesn't happen, they just get less usable until it warms up. 

If it's so cold that my batteries don't work right, I think that's just God's way of telling me it's time to go inside and watch Netflix.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Mort said:


> If it's so cold that my batteries don't work right, I think that's just God's way of telling me it's time to go inside and watch Netflix.


They actually won't charge right either until they warm up. I keep my (lithium) drill in the van all the time (our Winters go to -40 or so) and as noted above it just shortens run time until it warms up. But the charger can't get an accurate read on a cold battery, so the charger won't activate until the battery gets warm.

I also have a remote outdoor wireless temperature sensor on my house thermostat (AA batteries). Interestingly enough the manual states only to use lithium batteries.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

the newer fuel batteries are more stable and do last longer than the earlier m18 batteries. as for extreme cold as mentioned they wont charge when their cold or hot. they will lose their ability to even take a charge if left in -40 temperatures, i know several guys that work in extreme weather and always take their cordless gear home each night to be stored in a heated garage. a buddy was framing in -50 conditions and forgot to take his batteries home one night, 7 of them were left in his trailer and were pretty much toast

as for leaving batteries on a charger. if the charger is plugged in its usually fine as it will "trickle charge" however if the charger is unplugged it will slow drain the battery and destroy the memory of hte cells thus leaving the battery useless


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

woodworkbykirk said:


> they will lose their ability to even take a charge if left in -40 temperatures, i know several guys that work in extreme weather and always take their cordless gear home each night to be stored in a heated garage. a buddy was framing in -50 conditions and forgot to take his batteries home one night, 7 of them were left in his trailer and were pretty much toast


As the great Lewis Black says, that's not weather, that's an emergency condition. 

I've been kinda d**king the dog about making an insulated cabinet with a light bulb for storing paint, I'll just store them in there when I get around to making it. 

My main thing is I don't want to bring them inside all the time. I'm lazy like that.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

the guys im talking about physically bring them inside. they leave them in their trucks but park in their garages


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## Californiadecks (Aug 30, 2012)

woodworkbykirk said:


> the newer fuel batteries are more stable and do last longer than the earlier m18 batteries. as for extreme cold as mentioned they wont charge when their cold or hot. they will lose their ability to even take a charge if left in -40 temperatures, i know several guys that work in extreme weather and always take their cordless gear home each night to be stored in a heated garage. a buddy was framing in -50 conditions and forgot to take his batteries home one night, 7 of them were left in his trailer and were pretty much toast
> 
> as for leaving batteries on a charger. if the charger is plugged in its usually fine as it will "trickle charge" however if the charger is unplugged it will slow drain the battery and destroy the memory of hte cells thus leaving the battery useless


What about leaving the battery on the tool? Will that hurt the battery?


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

the tool itself is fine. the internal circuitry and led light on the charger are what cause the drain is my understanding. i found this out the hard way about 7 years ago no thanks to a coworker.. he would unplug my charger constantly and leave it unplugged.. the guy at teh makita service center told me that the charger does it


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

woodworkbykirk said:


> a buddy was framing in -50 conditions and forgot to take his batteries home one night, 7 of them were left in his trailer and were pretty much toast


Really?
We hit -56 here last year, and I keep my drill where it always is (unheated van). I had no issues at all. One year later... still using the same batteries.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow....talk about a lot of mis-information.

A simple search by the OP would have saved some time.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

ddawg16 said:


> Wow....talk about a lot of mis-information. A simple search by the OP would have saved some time. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries


The article states, as pertaining to my original question about temperature, that ideally it's room temp, to a minimum of -40/-50. I believe that was answered sufficiently by the members here. 

I've often wondered if we follow all the recommendations for all of our products, i.e. tool maintenance, brushing our teeth for 5 minutes, etc., how many hours in the day extra we would need to simply survive. I think checking for a 40% charge on all my batteries falls under the category of not necessary to enrich my life. 

Thanks for the link, but I feel if we have as much information as possible on the forum, the easier it is to keep good members and sign new ones up.


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