# Recessed light directly over shower



## adpanko (Jun 18, 2009)

I know they you can buy recessed lights that have vent fans built in, or if using a regular dome light, you can buy special sauna type fixtures with heavy duty glass and rubber gasket seals. But what does the NEC say with regards to regular fixtures, specifically recessed lights, being installed directly over showers. Is there a minimum height requirement for when a fixture can or can't be directly over a shower or tub? Someone I work with said her bathroom is being redone, and the contractor put a normal recessed light directly over her shower stall. I don't know the NEC details with this, but I'm assuming that isn't okay without it having some sealed dome over it, or a fan built in it. Any insight into the matter is greatly appreciated! Thanks.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Sounds scary, unless there's a glass right over and that it's sealed. I'm no NEC expert but I would imagine any light fixture for a moisture environment would need to be listed as such. May as well install receptacles in the bath too, so you can blow dry your hair or plug a TV. 

Though if the shower seals the light away with a glass or dome I'm sure it's ok. But if the vapour can get to it I would be weary.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

The recessed light over her shower should get a shower trim kit and it'll be fine. That's a glass dome integrated into the trim ring that will seal it up from water intrusion. 

There is no fan requirement in or near a shower. The bath has to have one, but proximity to the shower is a quality issue and not a code issue.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

Needs GFCI I think. At least that's what I am doing. Using Lightolier lights and trims in a steam shower application.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The recessed light over the shower would not need GFI protection. However, most fan/light combos will require GFI protection according to the installation instructions.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

But lights over bath tubs do?


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

No. Same as shower. No GFCI required.


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## spark plug (May 5, 2009)

*Issue of light/fan in shower/bath*



J. V. said:


> No. Same as shower. No GFCI required.


I recall (without citing any specific section of the NEC), installing a certain brand of fan/light combo approved for wet locations. In the package there was a statement, to the effect that if protected by GFCI it's permitted to be installed over a bath or shower! (Now more than ever):yes::no::drinkon't Drink and Drive!!!


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Many Mfg's will state GFCI required on fans over showers/bath for liability reasons
My shower light is a recessed can - wet/damp (?) rated. 
The trim fitting is also rated for wet use & seals the light

I thought there was a restriction on a ceiling fan that extends over a shower/bath?
Not that I have ever installed one there, or would


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Many Mfg's will state GFCI required on fans over showers/bath for liability reasons
> My shower light is a recessed can - wet/damp (?) rated.
> The trim fitting is also rated for wet use & seals the light
> 
> ...


 
I am using Fantech remote dual intake fan. The manual states "GFCI required if installed over tub/shower". The same manual covers lighted/non-lighted intake grills. Since the fan itself is remote, is it the grill placement they are talking about?

Regardless of what's required, my plan is to put lights in the shower, lights above the tub, TV outlet above the tub on protected circuit. Can't hurt, IMO


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Going above code can never hurt, code is simply the Min requirement
I've always wondered about the lack of GFCI requirement over a shower/bath
The bulb has to be changed at some point?
What are the odds the light goes out while bathing & they decide to change the bulb with a bth full of water
Or simply a wet shower area

I guess it has not happened anough to be an issue


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> I guess it has not happened anough to be an issue


Is it how lots of codes updates get created?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

BimmerRacer said:


> Is it how lots of codes updates get created?


Yes, generally if there are enough "problems" with something a recommendation is made to change the code
Anyone can actually make a recommenation to the Code panel
The AFCI code changes are a result of fires started by arcing

Still a lot of discussion going on regarding AFCI's


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

BimmerRacer said:


> Regardless of what's required, my plan is to put lights in the shower, lights above the tub, TV outlet above the tub on protected circuit. Can't hurt, IMO


You cannot install a receptacle in a bathroom over a tub, period. Not even a dedicated one for a TV. It is specifically prohibited by code and is not allowed under any circumstances. The wall space enclosing the tub is off limits, regardless of height of the proposed receptacle. All receptacles installed anywhere in bathrooms must be GFCI protected. 

Code does not require GFCI protection on lights or fans over tubs either. That's of course a minimum standard though, and as stated, a lot of fixture manufacturers recommend it.


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

thekctermite said:


> you cannot install a receptacle in a bathroom over a tub, period. Not even a dedicated one for a tv. It is specifically prohibited by code and is not allowed under any circumstances. The wall space enclosing the tub is off limits, regardless of height of the proposed receptacle. All receptacles installed anywhere in bathrooms must be gfci protected.
> 
> Code does not require gfci protection on lights or fans over tubs either. That's of course a minimum standard though, and as stated, a lot of fixture manufacturers recommend it.


 
hrm!


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

What does "over the tub" mean? right over? 2' away from the edge?


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

What!.. no TV while in the tub!!....oh wait.. you just said no receptacles over the tub....:thumbsup:

Even so I wonder how you watch tv while showering...:wink:


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## BimmerRacer (Feb 27, 2009)

I got wall space to move it :thumbup:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If it's recessed & the outlet is in the next room
TV ok? Over Toilet yes, over bath?


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

You can install the receptacle anywhere that isn't immediately above the tub or tub deck. The exact code language escapes me, but as long as it isn't over the tub/tub deck, you're ok. I'd say that if you were to install glass tub walls all the way to the ceiling, that would pretty much identify the no-no zone. The code doesn't say that a switch or receptacle has to be ___ inches away from a tub. 

The code doesn't say that the TV itself can't be in that space as I recall. It might raise some eyebrows though, so I'd get it pre-approved with your inspector before you do it.

You might be able to get away with putting the receptacle behind a cabinet door in an adjoining room. BUT, you might get hassled for running the appliance cord inside the wall, a concealed location. In the interest of safety and compromise I've allowed this installation before as long as the receptacle was absolutely accessible only from the adjoining room. I also asked for a GFCI receptacle even though the receptacle wasn't in the bathroom...In the interest of give and take.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

BimmerRacer said:


> What does "over the tub" mean? right over? 2' away from the edge?


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

LOL I was just joking about the TV. But seeing that picture guess I see it would be kind of cool... 

Though if seriously putting a TV over a bath I'd actually fix something up so it's inside an enclosed glass cabinet of some sort. "just in case". Definably GFI protect the whole circuit too.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

The owners manual for every conventional television and monitor sold in the US contains a warning to the effect that:










and the _only_ type of television or monitor you are allowed to use in such locations is a unit specifically designed for installation at such locations. 

I've never actually seen one of those except in a catalog, instead I see various sorts of Darwin Award efforts, for example:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Actually I was thinking of the TV in the other room
A niche shelf blocked from the shower/bath by glass
But I can't say that I have ever wanted to watch TV while showering
We have a radio in the bathroom that I play

From the hot tub (outside) we will be able to view the TV in the sunroom
And hear it with the window/slider open

I remember like 20 years ago a friend built their TV into the laudry closet
It freed up a lot of room in the main room
The 1st "flat screen" TV :thumbsup:

Owners manual....read.....TV....does not compute


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Owners manual....read.....TV....does not compute


Though such disclaimers _are_ very handy to the surviving spouse's lawyer when they sue the builder, the electrician, the real estate agent, and everyone else in sight..... :jester:


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Michael Thomas said:


> I've never actually seen one of those except in a catalog, instead I see various sorts of Darwin Award efforts, for example:



LOL I don't know what's worse, seeing a TV over the bath, or the fact that there's an outlet, and to make matters worse it's not a GFI outlet!


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Could be a GFCI breaker :wink:
I don't like an outlet any where near the tub/shower
Heck I don't even like them near the sink
But in a small bathroom - no choice


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Heck I don't even like them near the sink
> But in a small bathroom - no choice



Has to be withing 3 feet of _each _sink basin:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Michael Thomas said:


> Has to be withing 3" of _each _sink basin:


 
*3"*  :laughing:


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> ....The AFCI code changes are a result of fires started by arcing
> 
> Still a lot of discussion going on regarding AFCI's


I believe that the AFCI code changes were a result of extensive lobbying by the Eaton Corporation (manufacturer of Cutler-Hammer). I still have a bad taste in my mouth over how they implemented this requirement.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes - I heard that
Another study I saw indicated there was not enough info (arc fires) to support the need
Then of course there are the weather resistant outside recaptacles 
I guess the cost of everything was getting too low
I'm sure outdoor outlets go bad
I'm equally sure I've never replaced one 

Hey, does this meet code? :laughing:
Not a CA installation, no WH strap


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

This was one of the major justifications for the new standards: http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/ecafci.pdf


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Yes - I heard that
> Another study I saw indicated there was not enough info (arc fires) to support the need
> Then of course there are the weather resistant outside recaptacles
> I guess the cost of everything was getting too low
> ...


I LOLed hard when I first saw that pic. Like, I really hope it was just a setup or photoshop for a joke, and not actually real. But if that's real, wow lol. 

Well, at least you don't have to wait long for the shower to get hot!


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## JakeS (Aug 17, 2009)

I was recently told by a lighting designer that the heat of a downlight meant any steam dries before it gets close enough to enter. He meant generally in a bathroom though, not directly above a shower.


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