# Framing Door at Bottom of Stairs



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You need to go out 3' past the bottom tread's nosing to the wall with the door. 

*Landings*
Landing at top & bottom of stairs . . . . . . . . . . . . .[312.1] {1003.3.3.5}
Landing min. 36in. deep x width of door or stair . . .[312.2] {1003.3.3.5}

Be safe, G


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks G, but there is only 4' 10' to a wall going straight from the steps. The left side at the bottom of the stairs is another wall and to the right is opened space. The floor plan is attached if you care to view it.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I have seen doors on the bottom step, and just past the bottom step on the floor
Most of these (if not all) were older homes -no room or just the way they did it
And many led to walk up attics
Was there a door there before?
Where do the stairs lead?
Is this part of a permitted renovation?
May want to check with your local building Inspector


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks Dave, great pics!
My drawing is of an unfinished basement that I am trying to finish. The plumbing for the bathroom was put in an ackward spot (bottom of stairs on left) when the house was build 4 years ago and I am trying to work around what is there without digging up the floor. I've owned the house for one year. There was never a door at the bottom of the stairs before and the stairs lead up to the first floor of the main house. There is a door at the top of the step. I am working on getting a building permit and the framing for the bath is already completed.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Stair codes in most jurisdictions are pretty basic, sticking to this older code: http://books.google.com/books?id=AD...landing+bottom+of+stairs#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Why not extend the wall (to the right of the stairs) enclosing the stairwell landing, with a new door to the open space?

Be safe, G


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks G, your suggestion would be ideal if it wasn't for the bathroom door on the left (at the bottom of the stairs) which would be blocked if I put a landing at the bottom of the stairs with a door off to the right. But given what I have, I don't see any other way then to put a door flush with the stairs without a landing, similar to the second picture that Dave posted. This picture shows the stairs off to the right with the bathroom door straight ahead.

I don't know what to do.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Is there a reason you want a door top & bottom?
Kids, dog?


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

Once completed, the lower level will probably be rented and I thought it would be a good sound barrier and I think it would look better with a door. Also, there is a private entrance there too so the stairwell will probably not be used much.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The landing is a floor/space at the bottom of stairs to stand before/after using the stairs. You can have doors off of it, swing both away from the stair landing. Just extend the wall, and put a door in. The landing (space at the bottom of stairs is there already) . The new wall will run with the stairs, like the bath wall but on the other side of the stairs. Be safe, G


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks G but I think it would be kind of odd to have to go through two doors to get to the bathroom, don't you? Am I understanding you right, put the door parallel to the bathroom door?


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

That is correct and the only way to close off the stairs from the open room opposite the bathroom. There is no room to do another way. Ask the Inspector at frame inspection if you need 5/8" drywall on the stair side of both door walls or just at the top wall/door of the stairs for fire. Because it is a two family residence, there will be other requirements as well, extra smoke detectors, possible weather striping of the top stairway door, possible self-closing, etc. Egress out of the basement, windows in the bedroom, air supply for the mechanical room, separate sub-panel for the upstairs or basement, etc. Your local Building Department will tell you only if asked. 
You may need solid fire blocks over the stairway walls in the joist spaces. Be safe, G


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Unfortunately, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the local building department will not allow the door at the bottom of the stair without the requisite 36" landing, if they're doing their job. No modern building code permits the installation that is being proposed. It just isn't safe or even easy to operate in that configuration.

I'd suggest having the door placed in a wall to the right of the landing as you come down the stairs, in a vestibule of sorts.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks KC, you must be talking about Dave's pictures being the wrong suggestions. That's why I told him 4 previous times to put the door where you stated. Are there any other concerns for a two-family dwelling fire separation, KC? Be safe, G


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## HABSFAN2006 (Feb 25, 2009)

GBAR in WA said:


> Thanks KC, you must be talking about Dave's pictures being the wrong suggestions. That's why I told him 4 previous times to put the door where you stated. Are there any other concerns for a two-family dwelling fire separation, KC? Be safe, G


 
I am faced with a similar problem in the design where I do not have 3 feet in front of the stairs to put in a door, unfortunately this is one of those little details that needs to be known before construction starts.

There is a good point here, where there is a lot more that needs to go into dividing up two living spaces, for many reasons.

No one has asked yet, but on the floor plan there seems to be a yellow hallway, would it be possible to put the door on top of the stairs in that 
yellow hallway? The stairs would be hidden to the up stairs occupants, and visible to the lower occupants.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

GBAR in WA said:


> Thanks KC, you must be talking about Dave's pictures being the wrong suggestions. That's why I told him 4 previous times to put the door where you stated. Are there any other concerns for a two-family dwelling fire separation, KC? Be safe, G


There wouldn't be any special considerations relative to fire separation unless the existing fire separation walls or floor-ceiling assemblies (if any)are being somehow disturbed. Removal or penetration of the sheetrock on those walls would most certainly be an issue, as it was installed to a very specific fire-rated design.


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## kothep (Jul 31, 2009)

*Framing a Door at Bottom of Stairs*

Please excuse my drawing. The yellow hallway is actually the stairs going up and the L shape (yellow hallway) represents the space under the stairs. This will most likely be used for storage which is why the door is shown. The stairway is all that was in the basement when I began trying to finished it. 

There is a door at the top of the stairs to the first level. The basement will be considered an in-law apartment as the code does not allow a multiple family dwelling. Regardless, I want to allow maximum privacy for whatever it turns out to be.

I guess I could just frame for a door and not put one there.


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## sigchester1 (2 mo ago)

*I know this is old, but in case someone stumbles in on a search:* The 90 degree winder turn doesn't have to be a flat landing, it can be 4 steps, each step 22.5 degrees, with 6" tread depth at the wall. 4 straight steps would be 40" total tread depth, but 4 steps on a 90 degree turn would be 12" total tread depth from the corner on each side, giving you 28" additional inches on the basement run, but losing 12" on the top run. You have 4'10" (58") at the bottom now, this 28" would give you *86" at the bottom*. 

You need 36" for the hallway, plus 4.5" for the wall, plus 36" for the landing, for a *total of 76.5", giving you 9.5" extra*. 

*If you can find another 1/2 inch* to make this 10", you can add another step at the bottom after the turn, allowing you to remove 1 step (10") at the top before the turn. Instead of needing 12" at the top for the steps for the winder, you are eliminating 1 step from this run, so *you only need 2" more at the top*. 

*Getting the 1/2" to allow for another step at the bottom run should be easy* - can use thinner drywall if code allows, and/or 2x3 studs in the basement wall between the stairs and hallway to the bathroom instead of 2x4s. 

*Of course you could always frame a door opening, leave the door off*, get approval, and then add the door back, but you will need an extra high door to keep minimum clearance above the step (extra high doors are available). 

*For anyone tight on space*, you can make a 180 degree turn with 9 steps, 20 degree angle each step, and meet code. If you are trying to fit a weird space, you can add straight steps between each winder step. The angle of the inside wall might need to me modified - code says that 12 inches from the wall, the tread must be 10" deep. In fact, where spiral staircases aren't allowed, you can use a winder to the same effect, will take up a square 8' x 8' but by angling the inside can get a little less than this. You can also have steps down to the 1st winder step at the top, most spiral stairs have this as a platform.


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