# Septic Pump problem: continually tripping the breaker



## mammatus (Jan 16, 2018)

This past summer, I replaced our septic pump (Liberty 283 1/2-hp submersible pump with float on piggyback switch). It has been running great all summer/fall and then I had an issue this winter. 

The alarm went off one day last week and I opened the tank to find it nearly full, the pump no longer running. 

Two items caught my attention: 
- The 20A circuit breaker had tripped; and 
- A union above the pump (at the vertical check valve) had come loose. 

(Note: I do not know which occurred first; I came upon it all after the alarm sounded and I began investigating). 

So, my repairs were as follows: I pulled the pump out; checked all the cords and connections, then lowered it back in, reconnected the broken union at the check valve (had to replace the check valve as I dropped the old one in the tank by accident as I pulled the pump) and reset the breaker. 

At this point, a strange thing occurred, but I don't know the significance of it: the pump began running, but the water level was not decreasing...so I shut off the breaker to check everything. I went to disconnect the pipe at the union above the check valve and the 90-elbow where it then turns horizontal to go into the field. A small burst of fluid came out when I opened that union--it was under pressure. So the pump had been working, but it was as though it pushed against a blockage. So I disconnected it; snaked the line going out to the field for about 20 feet (didn't notice anything providing me with resistance, but I couldn't see in there), and then reconnected everything. Again, I don't know if this little event has anything to do with the ultimate problem or not, but I include it to provide a full history/picture. 

After this re-connection, the pump began running again and eventually dropped the level in the tank all the way down to the normal low point within the hour. The pump then shut off appropriately (via the float). I was a happy man. 


But ever since this sequence of events, for several days, the breaker has been tripping. It will hold for a time -- anything from a few minutes to a few hours -- providing sufficient time to drop the level in the tank and prevent it from an overfull status -- but I still have to reset it at least a couple of times a day. 

*Any ideas on the cause of the continually tripped breaker? The pump is only around 6 months old at this point.
*

I can only come up with one idea (and I think this may be it, but want confirmation before calling in an electrician): 

The former owner of the house installed the outlet for this pump under the cover for the second tank. This outlet box where the pump is plugged in installed IN the riser of the second tank--just beneath the lid. It is always a couple feet above the top water level, but it still resides in the same damp space as the pump and all the effluent. It is in a small gray box, but it is certainly not 100% watertight. Whenever I've been checking everything in the tank, I dry everything in/around that box off as much as possible, but I know it gets damp. 

So I suspect the first suggestion most would have is to get that electrical box (and the pump plug that goes into it) out of the tank riser and bolted onto a post above round (or some other dry space). I think that sounds wise...the only reason I hesitated on doing that right away is that it has seemingly worked fine for the last 6 months in this configuration.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Is the new pump stronger than the old pump? The reason I ask is that I was wondering if the 90 degree turn is too much resistance, for the new pump during the cold weather?


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## mammatus (Jan 16, 2018)

Guap0_ said:


> Is the new pump stronger than the old pump? The reason I ask is that I was wondering if the 90 degree turn is too much resistance, for the new pump during the cold weather?


I cannot be 100% certain, but I believe the old pump was also a 1/2-hp like this one.


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

what caused old pump to fail & or why replaced?
does pump riser piping have a weep hole above pump 
& below check to prevent vapor lock? 

that said - for the union of the check valve to blow loose 
indicates a dead head situation to the pump IMO... 
where is your location and what temps were occurring surrounding your timeline... 
very possible a backup or blockage is in play 
causing pump to pull extra amps along with your wet environment scenario...

get with department that permitted your septic system to learn as much specifics as you can about that particular system... 
also find out how much quantity of fluid you are supposed to be pumping per cycle..

mark/switch this tripped breaker with another 20 A in panel 
to see if different breaker for pump also trips... 
& if this different breaker trips - your breaker was doing its job 

Peace


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## mammatus (Jan 16, 2018)

DR P said:


> what caused old pump to fail & or why replaced?
> does pump riser piping have a weep hole above pump
> & below check to prevent vapor lock?
> 
> ...


I'll answer as much as I can: 

In July, alarm sounded and me, being brand new to septic systems (had just moved into the house in march) immediately called a septic repair guy. He came out and discovered it was a tripped breaker (I felt like an idiot). He also peered into the pit while he was there and lifted the pump and said it appeared quite old and was probably worth replacing soon. He gave me some pointers on what to replace it with, so when I had the time and the money over the summer, I undertook the replacement myself. 

As far as a vent; there is no outdoor vent, but after reconnecting the broken union last week, when I replaced the cover (a large metal manhole lid), I did not re-seal it the way I did last summer with puddy; thus the seal around the lid was not tight; and the small quarter-sized opening on one side where a pry bar is used to lift it was also left unsealed. So I don't believe any kind of vapor lock was created. 

We are in the great plains and the weather was dramatically colder the first couple of weeks of this year...around January 1 we got very cold (-10F) and the alarm sounded about 8 or 9 days after that...so if the line from the tank to the laterals froze and was thus blocked around or shortly after the 1st -- the coldest day -- it would probably make sense that the tank slowly filled during the week and the alarm was eventually triggered around the 9th. 

A frozen/blocked line would also explain why my first attempt at restarting it met with failure (and pressure in the line). 

But after that, it seemed to open up -- either as a result of my snaking the line or warmer weather (both occurred last week)...because I was able to effectively empty the tank...and keep it at the normal low level. 

I will get with the county that permitted the system for a drawing...I recall when they inspected it back in January of 2017 (when we were contracting to buy the house), they said it all appeared to be in good shape and they had a drawing of the system (showing the layout of the tanks, the lines, the laterals, etc...) but I don't believe I ever got a copy of that drawing but it might be helpful for further diagnosis/work.


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

Switch breakers to eliminate bad breaker...

I called it vapor locked but technically for a sump pump 
it is usually referred to as air lock... 
nothing to do with vented tank though.

Air lock is a real problem with sump pumps that incorporate check valves. 
If the pump shakes and vibrates or if it fails to pump 
it can be attributed to pump air-lock.

When a sump pumps turns off, the water in the discharge line 
between the pump and the check valve drains back into the sump. 
If the pipe between the pump and the check valve is solid, 
the air in the line can compress the next time the pump tries to empty the tank. 
This compressed air can prevent water from leaving the pump.

To solve this potential problem - 
always drill a small 3/16 inch vent hole in the side of the discharge pipe 
inside the sump/tank & below the check valve. 
I prefer this hole be drilled at an angle so the discharge shoots safely
back down into tank & It’s a good idea to inspect & make sure 
that this hole is not obstructed or clogged periodically...

Peace


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## mammatus (Jan 16, 2018)

That makes perfect sense -- I had not considered that. I just watched a Zoeller video on youtube about airlock after reading your post and it makes a lot of sense. I'll pull the pump and drill that hole later this week. 

Thanks again.


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## DR P (Dec 16, 2017)

mammatus said:


> That makes perfect sense -- I had not considered that. I just watched a Zoeller video on youtube about airlock after reading your post and it makes a lot of sense. I'll pull the pump and drill that hole later this week.
> 
> Thanks again.


But do also remember that your union/check blew off pipe indicating dead head or extreme back pressure potentials. 

You should get the specs on your septic system and dig thru until every angle is making sense... 
many different pressurized septic systems out there...
hopefully you don't need a certification in 
advanced subsurface operations to understand yours. 

Peace


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