# Rusted out metal railing



## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

I won't explain the situation in its entirety, but I lived at a place where the metal railings on the front stoop were in really bad shape. On the one side, the two points it was cemented into the wall were loose (I'm sure that could have been easily fixed), and the bottom rail detached from the post, and the post was so rusted and corroded away that three of the for sides of the post were missing over roughly two to three inches and was located just a few inches off the ground. If I get time I will post a pic. My question is whether or not it is safe to repair this railing versus replace it, since that is exactly what the owner did. For additional reference, they are the original railings on a 1920's home.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No pictures.
Time to replace them long ago.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

If it is so rusted out. 

my suggestion is to "accidently" put enough weight on it that you tear it off, that way the tenement lord will have to replace it. 

remember to be sneaky and do not get seen by anyone, and be careful that you do not fall with it, and get injured. 

Then report the missing rail and put caution tape up so that someone else does not get hurt. 

Wait one week then call the code enforcers, they will get the proper repairs done A S A P.


ED


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> My question is whether or not it is safe to repair this railing versus replace it, *since that is exactly what the owner did.*


Ayuh,.... If the Owner fixed it, that means yer a tenant,..??

Is the railin' secure enough to be an aid to walkin' up, 'n down the stairs,..??

If so, you have No complaint,.... 
The railin' is still capable of doin' it's intended job,.....



> my suggestion is to "accidently" put enough weight on it that you tear it off, that way the tenement lord will have to replace it.


As a Landlord, I find that suggestion Offensive,...

I do all I can do to make my rental house as comfortable, 'n safe as possible,....
Havin' a tenant, or others trashin' the place, because they "Think" something is wrong, is pure insanity,....

A few years ago, the punk kids, next door decided my handrail was their seat to use,....
I'd fix it, they'd bust it,....
Finally, I caught 'em,....
At the confrontation, the punk told me the handrail wasn't strong enough,....
That's when I informed the punk that it's a handrail, to steady yerself walkin' down the stairs, *NOT his F&^%in' Seat*,....
Then I called the local Cops,....

No problem since, the handrail is still Fixed,.....

The railin' noted above is a railin',.... _*NOT*_ a Retainin' wall,.....
It only needs to be stout enough to do it's intended task, nothin' more, nothin' less,....


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,.... If the Owner fixed it, that means yer a tenant,..??
> 
> Is the railin' secure enough to be an aid to walkin' up, 'n down the stairs,..??
> 
> ...


The problem is this owner has a history of denying issues and covering them up versus properly fixing them, and simply ignoring problems such as exposed electrical connections on the outside of the house, non-GFCI outlets behind the washers and utility tubs, years of lint build up in the dryer ducting etc. Or the ceramic tile floor in the kitchen installed on an unlevel floor without leveling cement or a subfloor leading to continuously cracking and moving tiles and grout coming up. First she tried to give me crack filler, then she said its normal for a floor to do that after about 8 years, and now she is having select tiles replaced. I was also blamed for a light socket burning out and the paint actively pealing off of the wood work (which exposed lead containing laquer which I was told was not up there, and just for the record I have children who are currently 2 years and 3 months and we lived there for almost three years. I won't get into the rest, but there's lots more.

And to be honest, I don't know how secure the railing is now because I no longer live there, I hear things through the grape vine. My concern and curiosity is how long they will stay fixed before there is another problem.

So you can see where I was concerned.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> And to be honest, I don't know how secure the railing is now because I no longer live there, I hear things through the grape vine. My concern and curiosity is how long they will stay fixed before there is another problem


Ayuh,..... So you don't have a horse in this race, yet you insist on makin' somebody else a Bad guy,..??

Get a life of yer own,.....
You've already done the right thing, you _*Moved*_,....

Anything that landlord does is no longer Any of yer business,.....


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,..... So you don't have a horse in this race, yet you insist on makin' somebody else a Bad guy,..??
> 
> Get a life of yer own,.....
> You've already done the right thing, you _*Moved*_,....
> ...


I don't have to make anybody a "bad guy" simply by reporting facts of neglect and endangerment of lives via ignorance. People make themselves bad guys with their own choices and behaviors, and concidering how little you know about the situation, making definitive comments about something you are mostly unfamiliar with doesn't make you look very good.

In regard to the railing specifically, it is more of a curiosity than anything. If you actually read my post you would know this already. I simply want to know how safe it is to repair a railing that has the described damage, take that at face value. I question the validity of the repair only because of the owner's previous record, but for all I know they could be doing something completely acceptable.

And I do have a "horse in the race" as you say, but it's none of your buisness how.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

There was a "SLUM LORD" here in my community of around 65,000 people, a few years ago, who did similar things as you have described. 

Many tenants moved on to other accommodations, and also reported the deplorable conditions to the county code enforcement.

After a few "surprise" inspections the county closed the complex. 

35 families were out of a place to live , but the community pulled together and all were able to get into better arrangements. 

The place was bad enough that the owner abandoned it to the city, it was demolished, and is now a park and playground. 


I am glad that you were able to move, but feel for the current tenants who are living in danger.

If just one gets injured on those bad railings, the property owner is liable, and might be paying much more for the medical and such, than it would take to repair the place correctly. 

P.S. Bondo: not all landlords are willing as you are to keep their rentals in decent shape, and yes I know that not all tenants give a d--n about their abode either.


ED


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> P.S. Bondo: not all landlords are willing as you are to keep their rentals in decent shape, and yes I know that not all tenants give a d--n about their abode either.


Ayuh,... Still no reason to advocate vandalism against another's property,....

No reason to group all landlords as slumlords either,....


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Bondo said:


> No reason to group all landlords as slumlords either,....


Where in the world did you see that in this thread??!!


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

MTSpartan said:


> Where in the world did you see that in this thread??!!





> *There was a "SLUM LORD" here in my community *
> 
> *I question the validity of the repair only because of the owner's previous record, *
> 
> ...


As I said, if it was repaired to the extent that it serves it's intended purpose,..... _*

It's Fixed*_,....


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Well, in my opinion, if things are that bad and it appears that there are some code violations, etc. then the best thing to do would be to report them to your local zoning commission or some other body of authority that "red flags" all those things. I mean, seriously, what we're going to say on here has little merit other than we're going to say to get those things fixed for the sake of the tenants and their safety, but, you already know that!!! Find someone in your area with some authority that can get the ball rolling on proper repairs. Obviously, the landlord isn't going to do anything........willingly, that is.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Bondo said:


> As I said, if it was repaired to the extent that it serves it's intended purpose,..... _*
> 
> It's Fixed*_,....


Wow Bondo, you are a piece of work.

He said that he knew a "slum lord" and signifies with his quotations that this is his personal characterization or that of others familiar with the situation based on related facts, but no where does he say all landlords are slum lords. 

And I questioned the owner I'm referring to because they have done lots of shotty patch jobs, or ignored issues, or tried to blame them on me. Again, these are facts and not unfair characterizations.

And again, is it repaired to the extent of its intended purpose? Is a rusted out railing with a patch job still not a rusted out railing? How long in that condition will it serve its intended purpose before it is a problem again? Is this a typical practice?


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Gymschu said:


> Well, in my opinion, if things are that bad and it appears that there are some code violations, etc. then the best thing to do would be to report them to your local zoning commission or some other body of authority that "red flags" all those things. I mean, seriously, what we're going to say on here has little merit other than we're going to say to get those things fixed for the sake of the tenants and their safety, but, you already know that!!! Find someone in your area with some authority that can get the ball rolling on proper repairs. Obviously, the landlord isn't going to do anything........willingly, that is.


Well, my other question is the owner is looking at selling the property (it is a duplex), and if this happens wouldn't the prospective buyers have an inspection done if they know what they are doing, and this would expose any problems, or are there differences between how that inspection would be conducted versus if the building inspector is called for a specific issue or random inspection?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

MTSpartan said:


> Is this a typical practice?


Unfortunately, it is. I've worked for numerous "slum lords" over the past 30 years and many of them do just enough on their properties to "get by." I've seen things like DUCT TAPE used to repair kitchen drain pipes where someone cut the pipe an inch too short and then it was extended with the duct tape. I've seen them insist on using crappy paint from Big Lots to paint walls. I've seen them scrub carpets that should have been replaced 20 years ago. You get the picture. 

Luckily, there are some landlords who really do care and really do take care of their properties.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Gymschu said:


> Unfortunately, it is. I've worked for numerous "slum lords" over the past 30 years and many of them do just enough on their properties to "get by." I've seen things like DUCT TAPE used to repair kitchen drain pipes where someone cut the pipe an inch too short and then it was extended with the duct tape. I've seen them insist on using crappy paint from Big Lots to paint walls. I've seen them scrub carpets that should have been replaced 20 years ago. You get the picture.
> 
> Luckily, there are some landlords who really do care and really do take care of their properties.


I meant specifically on the railings. I did some research and have seen home improvement personalities repair railings by cutting the rusted part of and using a new extension, and there are products that apparently neutralize the rust, but I was curious if you guys knew any more on the subject.

But since we are talking, I'll share too. Amongst other things, I have seen a basic porcelin fixture broken and duct taped to the electrical box, and a outlet in the garage that could not hold a plug and concrete screws were screwed into the plywood with a string wrapped around to hold the plug in place. Then there is the hole in the floor by the radiator were the floor rotted away and the metal collar rusted off because the radiator leaked. I even vaccumed up pieces of the rusted metal, and the radiator had no water in it when I tried to bleed it. I was told this was "resolved".


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

There's surface rust and there's rust that goes all the way through or even originates inside the railing (if hollow). The former can be sanded off, than a rusty metal primer can be applied or even a rust converter before applying two coats of Rustoleum type paint. The latter is just a losing battle. Once rust gets a foothold and gets to the inside or originates from condensation inside, well, it is toast and should be replaced. Pics would sure help in this case.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm a landlord and I find the find the suggestion to commit criminal vandalism offensive.

I also had a hand rail that rotted at the base. I paid a welder to repair it. On his truck he had 3x3 metal plates which he secured to the concrete and metal tubing one size larger that slipped over the existing tubing after he cut away the rotted area. He welded the new tubing to the old and to the base plate. Then he ground down his welds until the were smooth.

IMO, the repair was as good as the original and looked fine once it was painted.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

Here is the infamous railing, the bottom rail behind the post is of course loose also.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That is a trap to harm someone with.

If I save a child or some ones grandmother from harm if they happen to be grasping that when it finally fails. I will vandalize it every time.


I THINK:

It is my civic duty to do what I think is right to protect others, even if it is not the popular thing. 

And will not argue with anyone over it.

I too was a landlord years ago, but once I realized that I was doing more improvements to rentals than I was my own home I sold out and only did improvements for my home, or as a contracted repairman.


ED



P.S. Mtspartan : check your P.M. file


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

If you are in an area that gets ice & snow. Salt will speed up the process, when thrown on the steps to melt the ice.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

de-nagorg said:


> P.S. Mtspartan : check your P.M. file


I did, I apparently don't have the "points" to respond. Thanks for all the responses though, and I will pm you when I can.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

de-nagorg said:


> That is a trap to harm someone with.


Again, this has been "repaired". I'm curious if this is something that should be repaired or replaced. The impression I'm getting is that either method is reasonable and it is more a matter of preference, I just could not previously conceive that repairing a rail in this condition was safe. And given that the owner has a history of wanting things repaired that should have been replaced decades ago, I was suspicious for that reason.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

It can always be repaired. If you sleeve one. You may as well sleeve all of the other posts for the railing, so that it looks like it came that way.


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

gregzoll said:


> It can always be repaired. If you sleeve one. You may as well sleeve all of the other posts for the railing, so that it looks like it came that way.


Any clue on what the labor costs roughly to do this? It was two railings, each only with one post.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Now I am confused. 

Is the picture before or after the repair?

I do not see enough solid iron on that to be sleeved . 

My opinion is that that entire corner and some of the loose bottom rail needs to be replaced. 

I hope that this is not what they call repaired.


ED


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## MTSpartan (Apr 9, 2015)

de-nagorg said:


> Now I am confused.
> 
> Is the picture before or after the repair?
> 
> ...


When I said it has been repaired I meant it is no longer in the condition it is shown as in the picture. So yes, this is the before, I don't know what the after looks like.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

MTSpartan said:


> Any clue on what the labor costs roughly to do this? It was two railings, each only with one post.


Read the Sticky, regarding your question.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

For the sake of the whole handrail argument. The mounting and the railing is supposed to be strong enough to keep a person of X amount of pounds from pushing the railing over, which would allow them to fall onto the ground.

That also means that if someone was to sit on it. It should never give way.


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