# Need advice on roof heat tape.



## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

There are two separate possible problems with the ice.

One is an ice dam at the edge and first foot or two of the roof. This is caused by snow melting and running down the slightly heated roof. The water then hits the area of the roof which is over the eves and has no heat. That water then freezes and forms a dam that more melt water can't get passed. The zig zag heat coils are laid on the roof for that problem.

Another, unrelated problem is the water freezing in the gutter itself. A straight line of heat tape laying in the gutter and down spouts would solve that problem.

So the answer depends on which problem you actually experience.


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## marchboom (Apr 24, 2008)

I actually had both problems. We got snow which filled the gutter and it started to melt. Before it melted completely, it froze again and it stayed cold after that. Then we got snow that built up over the "block" of ice now in the gutter.

I could be wrong (I was once) but I think that as long as I keep the ice from forming in the gutter, I will be OK. Am I addressing this the right way?


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

I would go ahead and try the tape in the gutter and see if that takes care of the problem. This past winter was bad around here, with people having ice dam problems that didn't have problems in other years. We even lost some roofs on farm buildings and garages from the weight of the snow and ice.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

The right product to use is called Self-Regulating Heat Cable. "Self Regulating" means that the cable will get warmer, the colder it is outside. That saves energy when it's 30 degrees as compared to when it's 10 degrees. The stuff at the box stores is just a one temp element that goes to it's maximum temperature no matter what the outside temperature is.

The zig zag pattern that someone reffered you to is what you would do with the cable when applying it to your roof. When you are installing it in your gutters and downspouts the best application is a double run. The cable will melt any snow or ice that is in contact with it and (generally) within 1" around it. If you have a heavy snow fall, it will igloo in the gutter and then re-freeze over the top. So, a double run will keep the gutter clear. You do the same thing down the downspout.

If you have 330 linear feet of gutter, you probably have 8-10 downspouts. They need to be heated as well or it will just refreeze in the downspout and you won't be solving the problem. As a less expensive way to approach the problem, you could only treat the areas that get no sun and work from there.

Next is the controls.

I should say that this is our experience with gutter melt systems and experience dictates that we won't install them any other way.


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## Ash (Aug 1, 2008)

It looks like huge waste of electricity. I'd just construct something so that the snow would trip down on its own

Consider the possibility of blackout or fault in the heat cable too


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

warmsmeallup said:


> The right product to use is called Self-Regulating Heat Cable. "Self Regulating" means that the cable will get warmer, the colder it is outside. That saves energy when it's 30 degrees as compared to when it's 10 degrees. The stuff at the box stores is just a one temp element that goes to it's maximum temperature no matter what the outside temperature is.


Ahhh, an expert weighs in. Good thing. :thumbup:


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Ash said:


> It looks like huge waste of electricity. I'd just construct something so that the snow would trip down on its own
> 
> Consider the possibility of blackout or fault in the heat cable too


"Huge" is subjective when the ice damage to the roof and outside walls costs more to repair (year, after year, after year until your insurance company says no more) than the installation of the system itself.

Yes, one of the downsides of exposed cable is the possibilty of damage in ice or snow slides. It's not really an issue in the gutters unless you use a chain saw to clean your gutters. It's the "on-the-roof" application that has the higher risk.

But, then there's Zmesh to the rescue! :whistling2:


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## Ash (Aug 1, 2008)

I mean a solution like allowing snow to slide down and fall on its own

For example if the rain sink is stopping the snow it can be removed (just let the rain drip off the end of the roof naturally)


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Ash said:


> I mean a solution like allowing snow to slide down and fall on its own
> 
> For example if the rain sink is stopping the snow it can be removed (just let the rain drip off the end of the roof naturally)


That's not how it works. The escaping heat from the building melts the snow, the water runs down the roof to the overhang (where it's no longer being heated) and then refreezes both in the gutters and on the roof. Especially on north facing sides. The ice builds and builds until it works its way back up the roof to the melted area and literally lifts the covering (shingles, metal, whatever) and then the heat from the exterior wall remelts it and it runs down the inside walls destroying everything on the way down. If you have the batting type of insulation, it becomes a sponge and holds the water in your walls becoming mold. Need we go further?!

The gutter "helmets" that keep the leaves from clogging the gutters in the summer and fall are nothing more than industrial ice makers in winter. They neglect to inform you about this little aspect of their design. Great for the southern states...a danger in the northern states.


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

Ash said:


> I mean a solution like allowing snow to slide down and fall on its own
> 
> For example if the rain sink is stopping the snow it can be removed (just let the rain drip off the end of the roof naturally)


No offense Ash, but which southern, non snow, state are you from? :laughing:


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## marchboom (Apr 24, 2008)

I wish the snow would just slide off the roof but we have an asphalt shingle roof with a 7/12 pitch. No sliding here. I was hoping that we could get away with just heat tape in the gutter...and maybe we can. That was the problem last year. The gutter became a big block of ice and it built up from there. But then we had near record snow fall too.

Looking around at the other homes in the area and no one has heat tape on their roof. I'm just wondering if they only put it in their gutters and that is all that's needed?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

jrclen said:


> No offense Ash, but which southern, non snow, state are you from? :laughing:


Snow? What is snow. That is something we get when the stores want to empty all their shelves. When they predict snow, all the milk, bread, and peanut butter disappers.

Snow is what happens up north when my ac is still running. 
Ya'll enjoy the snow!


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

marchboom said:


> Looking around at the other homes in the area and no one has heat tape on their roof. I'm just wondering if they only put it in their gutters and that is all that's needed?


Actually, I would recommend that you do just the gutters and downspouts to start with and see if that solves the problem. Doing them now will not effect the cost of doing the roof area next year one way or the other.


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## fungku (Jul 27, 2008)

Also, for future reference, it is typically a good thing to follow manufacturer's directions. For insurance and warranty purposes.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

jrclen said:


> No offense Ash, but which southern, non snow, state are you from? :laughing:



Man, that was funny....


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

jbfan said:


> Snow? What is snow. That is something we get when the stores want to empty all their shelves. When they predict snow, all the milk, bread, and peanut butter disappers.
> 
> Snow is what happens up north when my ac is still running.
> Ya'll enjoy the snow!


Now there is the difference. When they predict snow around here, the beer and brandy disappears.

Snow is what reduces our AC bill. :laughing:


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## bjfms89 (Feb 5, 2009)

*ice damming in valley of roof*

I'm from Michigan and I have a dead spot in a valley in my roof(actually 34 roofs, we're an apartment complex) I removed the gutter at the end of the valley but there is a short area with no pitch where the ice starts. has anyone ever used heat tape in valley areas up to ten feet long? any suggestions other than ripping roof would be appreciated. metal pans and rubber roof have been suggested, looking for other options.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

We've used self-regulating in valley's many times. As long as you have enough coverage in the valley to work effectively to melt the snow/ice and carry it off the roof.


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## Zerogravity (Feb 15, 2009)

I have had ice dam problems on north side of house this winter and am thinking of trying the heating cable only in the gutters and downspouts. The gutters are 2 years old and have a perforated sheet metal covering them to keep out debris. My question is- -can I put the cable on top of the perforated cover or in the gutter itself? Thanks,


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Zerogravity said:


> can I put the cable on top of the perforated cover or in the gutter itself? Thanks,


For the obvious reasons, you'll have to remove the covers and insert them in the gutters without replacing the cover until spring.


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## ohmom2k8 (Feb 24, 2009)

warmsmeallup said:


> The right product to use is called Self-Regulating Heat Cable. "Self Regulating" means that the cable will get warmer, the colder it is outside. That saves energy when it's 30 degrees as compared to when it's 10 degrees. The stuff at the box stores is just a one temp element that goes to it's maximum temperature no matter what the outside temperature is.
> 
> The zig zag pattern that someone reffered you to is what you would do with the cable when applying it to your roof. When you are installing it in your gutters and downspouts the best application is a double run. The cable will melt any snow or ice that is in contact with it and (generally) within 1" around it. If you have a heavy snow fall, it will igloo in the gutter and then re-freeze over the top. So, a double run will keep the gutter clear. You do the same thing down the downspout.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my problem. Thanks for the help! By the way how much did it cost you?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Some people have observed that having the heating cables only moves the ice dam further up the roof - beyond the heat cable
So it may solve the problem, it may not
With the snow we had & the winter it would not have removed the ice dams from my roof


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Some people have observed that having the heating cables only moves the ice dam further up the roof - beyond the heat cable
> So it may solve the problem, it may not


That's absolutely correct. Installing cables ON the roof and in the gutters is application driven. If you have an overhang where the water can refreeze before even getting to the gutters, you will have an ice dam on the roof as well.

The worst part about the design of cables on the roof is that if you have a good snow or ice slide, it can tear the cables off the roof and take the shingles with them. That's why we also use under shingle/metal heating systems as well. They certainly ain't cheap, but they are a real fix for the probelm.


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## dizzy3434 (Oct 13, 2009)

marchboom said:


> Having large amounts of snow and ice on my roof last year I have decided that I need to install heat tape in the rain gutters. Heat tape companies state that you should run the tape in the gutters and in a zig-zag pattern along the eaves but that adds up to a LOT of tape and a much higher electric bill. I have 330 feet of gutters. I have spoken to several electricians and rain gutter folks and they say that all I need is to run the tape in the gutter as that is what needs to be kept free of ice. The house is new and has plenty of blown in insulation and plenty of attic ventilation.
> 
> Has anyone used this tape and if so, what has been your experience with it. Should I run the zig-zag pattern?
> 
> Thanks


 

Running the tape in your gutters will help prevent extreme damming but chances are that the ice is forming higher up on your roof where warmer air in the attic is warming your roof and melting the snow turning it into ice. It is best to use the zigzag pattern 3 or 4 rows of shingles up using the included clips. As to your high electric bill, they now have tape with control modules, where you can adjust the tape to turn on when the tape reaches a certain temperature. They also come with moisture sensors and activate when they sense water. Hope this helps.


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## iceonroof (Dec 22, 2009)

*Does heat cable have to be on continuously?*

In the mountains of Colorado, I have self-regulating heat cable installed on 3 separate circuits on the North, West and South roofs. My electricity monitor indicates that I consume approximately 2500 watts per hour for all three circuits, thus costing around $144/mo. if all circuits are left on continuously.
One roofer told me to leave the circuits (ranging from 75' to 150' in 20 amp lines) on continuously, partly because cold startups draw a large amount number of amps. Another roofer told me to activate the cables only between around 10 am to 3 pm when it warms up a bit and the sun is out to facilitate melting. Obviously, I would rather do the latter and use time clocks to save money, even though I would probably leave the North circuit on all the time where ice damming is the greater problem.
Can anyone provide some advice re. this issue?


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Why don't you just use a temperature/moisture sensor? It will activate the system when temps fall below 38 degrees (adjustable from 32 - 40) and the sensor gets wet from either rain or snow. You can also position it in the gutter so that it 'sees' water flowing off the roof.

They sell for about $300.00. If you have a swtch that activates a coil to turn on your 3 zones, it can be connected between the coil and the service. It has the ability to control up to 120/240v/30a. You can also take it another step and install a controller for the sensor inside your home.


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## iceonroof (Dec 22, 2009)

*Thought of that*



warmsmeallup said:


> Why don't you just use a temperature/moisture sensor? It will activate the system when temps fall below 38 degrees (adjustable from 32 - 40) and the sensor gets wet from either rain or snow. You can also position it in the gutter so that it 'sees' water flowing off the roof.
> 
> They sell for about $300.00. If you have a swtch that activates a coil to turn on your 3 zones, it can be connected between the coil and the service. It has the ability to control up to 120/240v/30a. You can also take it another step and install a controller for the sensor inside your home.


Well, I thought of that, but the problem is, at 8700 ft. elevation, it is almost always below 32 degrees. At night, it is usually close to or below 0 degrees. I have read that heat cable does almost no good when it is quite cold, but I don't have any solid data. Of course, one could use a combination of thermostat and clock.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

It is true that when it gets below zero, it's difficult to get enough heat out of the SR cable. But temperature alone will not activate the system. It must get wet as well.

What is the design of the layout? Is the a single, double or triple run of cable in the gutters and leaders?


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## iceonroof (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, I should know more, but I don't. I think it is a single run both zig-zagged on the roof and then down the gutter.

The moisture feature does sound interesting, as melting ice would have to be next to the cable for it to be functional. Thus, it should shut down either when it has melted enough ice/snow or when it can't melt accumulation. Is there any concern about large amp drains for repeated start-ups with this setup.

Thanks a lot for you help.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Though there's probably nothing you can do now, we have installed enough SR cable to know that a single run in your working conditions won't be enough to keep the gutter clear.

As for your start-up issues, I would need to know the setup. Which cable do you have 120 or 240v? How many feet on each run in total? What controls are there? i.e., just three circuit breakers or is there a control panel with buttons on the front? etc.. the more information you can give me, the more I can feed back. Keep in mind, garbage in...


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## iceonroof (Dec 22, 2009)

The circuits are all 110. I'm approximating, but the one on the North side is around 150' as is that on the South side. The one on the East side is around 50'-75'. Unfortunately, they are wired in from locations that are separated by a substantial distance, two in outside plugs but one in a peripheral fuse box in the garage. I guess I could rig something near the main fuse box, but that would take somewhat more skill than I have. I'm liking the moisture/temperature alternative, but buying three of them could get expensive.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Hoping they are truely on separate circuits, you don't need three sensors. Plus, make sure that they used GFEP breakers, not GFCI. GFEP breakers are ground fault equipment Protection, not people protection and they are more forgiving on startup.

You only need a 120v/30a three pole contactor (maybe $100 if they treat you fairly), with a 120v coil. The lengths of cable you have out can really only be run on 3 separate circuits. Depending on the manufacturer, generally speaking, a 120v/30a dedicated circuit can have a maximum of about 175+/- linear feet of cable on it before requiring a separate feed. You can go up to about 375'+/- for a 240v/30a cable and circuit. But that's moot.

You will need a licensed electrcian to hook it up but here's how it lays out:
The sensor is the switch for the power to the coil on the three pole contactor. You run 120v to (and through) the sensor to the contactor. This 120v will not only power the sensor but it will also activate the coil on the contactor when the sensor is activated by temperature and moisture. You then will have to run three 120v power sources (1 for each zone that you already have) to the three pole contactor. When the sensor is activated, the contactor pulls in and that turns on all three zones. Done!


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## iceonroof (Dec 22, 2009)

*Really helpful*

Thanks so much for the advice. I'm assuming that the contactor is a mongo relay. I'm old enough to have worked with these a lot for logic and timing circuits before the transistor era.
The cables are definitely on separate circuits. A couple of them started out as GFCIs, but they kept blowing on startup, so I had them put in slower blowing equivalent ground-fault breakers in the fuse box that cost a fortune; I haven't heard the term "GFEP" but I would guess that is what they put in. The first circuit, in its own peripheral box, I assume, is the same, but I'll check. (It would seem that I could walk outside to check, but I'm in my office in Denver, and the home is in the mountains, 1.5 hours away.)
In bed, last night, I sort of figured out a similar solution, the only problem being that I would need an electrician to interrupt these three circuits near the fuse box, which is the only location at which they converge.
If it's not too much trouble, and you have the info. at hand, could you suggest brands/models for the sensor and contactor? Don't go to any trouble; I can search on the internet, but there appear to be a lot of options.
Again, thanks so much.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

We use any major brand of contactor. They're not really 'mongo' contactors. In the metal box with screw lid it should be mounted in would probably measure about 6" square for wall space +/-.

We use Automated Systems Engineering sensors. Since you have a gutter system, use the DS-8. It has a remote mounted moisture sensor that you can put right in the gutter. We sell them for $325.00 so expect something in that range.

We have used another popular brand in the past that looks similar but had really bad experiences with their service when under warranty. ASE is a great company and very knowledgable. I'm not sure if they will sell direct. You may need to buy from a distributor near you (for convenience).


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## jeweler (Mar 1, 2010)

*are there problems with the heat tape and gutter leaf guards*

Was it warmsmeallup who mentioned a problem with using the electric tape in the gutters when there are leaf guards in place? I also live in the hills in Colorado (at 8500') and have gutter icing. I put some basic electric heat tape in the gutters after having a problem where they filled up with ice. This resolved the problem as long as each time it snows I rake the snow off the eaves and then out of the gutter. It was considering installing the leaf guards or gutter helmet or whatever this summer. Then I can more easily pull the snow off the eaves without filling the gutters with the snow. I was thinking the water that runs down the roof as the snow melts would then just fall into the gutters and run off as usual. If the water froze in the gutter then I could plug in the heat tape that is already in the gutter. 

What is the fallacy in this seemingly simple solution?

Thanks


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## AltaJoe (Mar 31, 2010)

I have a question....perhaps warmsmellup can help.

I'm in Omaha, Nebraska. The climate is similar to Clifton Park :wink:

The only ice problem I have is in a "valley". This winter, which was one of the worst on record I had a huge ice buildup in the valley and it resulted in some water entering the house. I'm looking for a solution.

Here are some 

1) It is on the north side of the house and gets absolutely no sun.

2) It is not a normal "valley". One side is a very steep slope and the other side of the "valley" is a vertical exterior side wall.

3) The "Valley" is narrow, 6" at the bottom and widens to over 24" at the top.

4) The top of the "valley" also ends at a vertical wall.

5) Snow often packs into the valley. This year is was up to 24" deep.

6) During most of the winter, temperatures in the shade rarely get above 32 degrees and single digits / teens are normal. This year we had over a dozen days below zero at night.

So, would a Self-regulating heat cable work? Would I need a "heavy duty" one? Any better solutions?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

AltaJoe:
I think I can picture what you mean but let's be sure. Can you either post or email me a digital picture of the valley? You know the saying about what a pictures' worth?!

[email protected]


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## AltaJoe (Mar 31, 2010)

Just sent 2 shots with "Omaha" in the subject line.

Thanks.


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## mlleelise (Oct 30, 2010)

We just paid $1200 to a roofing company to install heat tape on the roof, in the gutters, and down the downspouts. As the installers were leaving, they told me that there was only enough heat tape to go 1/2 way down each downspout. He assured me that was plenty - and guaranteed that the no ice would form in the spout. However, everything I have read says that the tape should go the enitre length of the downspout - and out the end.
Should I make a big deal about this and make them fix it by installing enough tape sufficient to do the job properly (running the entire length of the downspouts) - or is it fine the way it is?? 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

I can guarantee you that the water will refreeze in the lower part of the downspout, just like an ice maker...only faster. Yes, make an issue out of the shortfall.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

If you actually get ice on the roof (as opposed to on the surface of the snow), then it's most likely a lack of insulation. You are losing heat and it is melting the snow then freezing. I would work on fixing that problem. Having heat tape in the gutters only is not a bad idea though, I have seen it where you get a really hot day and the snow melts a bit and forms ice in the gutters. I had that problem last year though it was because of a badly placed bathroom vent which I now fixed. 

Another danger with ice forming under the snow is it is a ticking time bomb. One day, you'll get a couple hundred pounds of snow come sliding down and crashing on whatever or whoever happens to be there.


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## mlleelise (Oct 30, 2010)

We actually have GREAT insulation in the attic...R49, I believe; so, that's not the problem. Also have great ventilation (at each end of attic, plus a roof vent all along the peak. We never had ice dams or icecycles UNTIL we had gutter helmets installed! Now, when it warms up outside after a snowfall, it begins to melt under the snow on roof, but doesn't just run off into the gutter. Instead, the water hits the metal gutter helmet - (which goes from under the shingles down to the gutter) - freezing quickly, then starts backing up. We had water damage 2 winters in a row, which is why we decided on heat tape. 
Apparently, the installers have done an incomplete job - not running the cables all the way through the downspouts. Have to wait 'til Monday to talk to them...hoping they won't give us a hard time about fixing it, since they said it was fine the way it was.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Ahh yes... Gutter Helmets..we're no longer talking about just your evryday ice makers, we're now talking industrial ice makers! Their design is perfect for keeping leaves out of the gutters. They do a fantastic job of it. However, if you go to your local restaurant...any restaurant that has an ice maker and take a look inside as to how it makes ice, you will see a flat metal surface that is refrigerated and has water flowing over the top. The ice builds until it hits a sensor then a heated grate drops over the top cuts it into cubes. They may vary but that is the same exact design of Gutter Helmets or anything like the Gutter Helmet design.

If your roofers only installed a single run of gutter melt on the bottom of the gutters and downspouts, let alone not to the bottom, it won't accomplish a thing. You should go to the gutter helmet site. They now have a special clip you have to buy to install under the Helmet that allows you to make a double run of heated wire so it heats the helmet preventing the ice from forming there. That allows the water to run under it into the gutter where you then have to keep it flowing to the ground.

When we install a self regulating heated wire system, we ONLY install double runs in the gutter with a loop down the spout to the very bottom so that the water can drip off the loops' end. Sometimes you can get away with a single run but that's dependant on how much roof area the gutters are covering.

Good luck tomorrow.


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## mlleelise (Oct 30, 2010)

Oh great...that doesn't sound very encouraging. There is only one run of cable. I feel sick - especially after spending $1200 on a job that, no doubt, will not solve our problem.
I just saw that your company isn't too far away from us - will be contacting you. 
Really appreciate your advice. Thanks!


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## hage1 (Jan 24, 2011)

I know the gutter helmet people will install the heat cable, but will they actually sell the clips to DIY people? I could save half of what they are charging if I knew how to fasten that cable to the underside of the gutter helmets.


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## Charles_Main (Jun 30, 2011)

marchboom said:


> Having large amounts of snow and ice on my roof last year I have decided that I need to install heat tape in the rain gutters. Heat tape companies state that you should run the tape in the gutters and in a zig-zag pattern along the eaves but that adds up to a LOT of tape and a much higher electric bill. I have 330 feet of gutters. I have spoken to several electricians and rain gutter folks and they say that all I need is to run the tape in the gutter as that is what needs to be kept free of ice. The house is new and has plenty of blown in insulation and plenty of attic ventilation.
> 
> Has anyone used this tape and if so, what has been your experience with it. Should I run the zig-zag pattern?
> 
> Thanks


I work For a company Up in Northern Michigan, Among Other things. We install Seamless Gutters and Gutters caps.

We have a product called. Michigan Gutter Cap. I am sure you have seen these kind of Caps before. They cover the gutters keeping leaves out. The attach to the gutter and the roof under the second Row of Shingles. They come in 70 Colors, and can also be stone coated to Match Shingles. The Cap is made of an X10 Alloy (Aluminum and Titanium).

If you have Ice Issues. A self Regulating Heat Cord can be attached to the top of this cap, Covered by another Small Piece of Aluminum. The Cord can come out of the Cap to go up valleys and down downspouts. They of course are not cheap, But They are far far more efficient. Both In terms of Energy Use, and ice Melting Ability. With these caps. You will have no icicles at all, And No Ice Dam all the way up to where the cap terminates under the second row of Shingles, and even a inch or so further up.

We don't work out your way so I'm Not trying to sell you anything here, Just letting you know it works extremely well. We offer it with a written Guarantee First that you will never have to clean out your gutters (Rarely enough Really small stuff will get past them, and we will send someone out to clean them out because the caps have to be removed to do it). Second that they can channel 14 Inches rain an HOUR! into your gutters with out being overwhelmed. (When installed correctly) Third (with Heater Cap) That you will have no Ice Dam below the second row of shingles. 

They can be installed on Any Aluminum Gutters But I would advice against it on Seamed Ones. Better to go with Seamless gutters always. We actually will warranty a persons existing Seamless gutters for life against Any Damage to them, Or that they may cause if they were to break off do to ice, When they are not even our gutters. 

Just google Heater Cap to check it out. I am sure there are plenty other products similar to it as well.


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## Charles_Main (Jun 30, 2011)

hage1 said:


> I know the gutter helmet people will install the heat cable, but will they actually sell the clips to DIY people? I could save half of what they are charging if I knew how to fasten that cable to the underside of the gutter helmets.



There not fastened to the under side on Gutter Helmet or Our caps.

The Cable runs on top of the Cap, with another piece of Aluminum With a Bend in it the Cable fits perfectly into Sandwiching the Cable between the cap and the Aluminum Piece on top is More Efficient, It basically Turns the Heat Retaining Allloy in the cap into one big Heat Sink with the heat spead out evenly All over it. The Gutters them selves are Effectively Kept Working and Free of ice with just this Type of Instalation. So their is no need to Double the Expensive Regulated Heat Cable, or Zig Zag it. The Cable then Drops Down the Down Spouts and there you have it.










Now I suppose you could do this same Thing but on the underside of the cap, But if the caps already on, this way would of course be best. .


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

Charles_M:
Interesting idea. So far, I like it! You have only a single SR cable attached under the sheet. Can I ask a few questions:

How is it attached to the existing cover?
You mentioned a single cable will heat that entire panel 12" up, did i understand that to be the case?
What do you do to heat the gutter itself?
How does the cable exit the panel and then get under the cover to run down the leader?
I'm presuming you're using 12wpsf SR cable, correct?
How does the 'bump" you're putting in the gutter cover affect water flow?
Is there an avg cost per square or linear foot?

Thanks
Warms*


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## Charles_Main (Jun 30, 2011)

warmsmeallup said:


> Charles_M:
> Interesting idea. So far, I like it! You have only a single SR cable attached under the sheet. Can I ask a few questions:
> 
> 
> ...


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm not the HO with the Gutter Helmet. He's the person who posted this thread. We're distributors and installers of line voltage and low voltage snow melting and roof de-icing systems in the northeast.

It all makes sense, however, I'm finding it hard to believe that a single SR cable mounted to the top plate will keep the gutter flowing as well. I completely get the idea of a "micro climate", but when it's 20 degrees out and the SR is having it's own trouble keeping up...

I also understand your boss not wanting HO's installing it themsleves. You can't cover a warranty when you didn't install it, let alone the liability issues.. does your guaranty fit all climates?

You may not have seen our roof de-icing system. It's a low voltage bronze screen that is stapled to the substrate and can be nailed through anywhere but where there's metal (dripedge or gutter straps) so the shingles are run right over the top. Nothing shows and there will be no snow or ice anywhere it is installed. We are also suppliers of 10 year SR cable that is very competive with Raychem. The temp/moisture sensor activates both the gutter and the roof. Often times just heating the gutter isn't enough. We can heat as far up a cold roof as needed to get into the area being heated by escaping heat from the home. This keeps it flowing to the ground.

We also have an under metal roof system that works in the same fashion.


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## Meemaw (Dec 4, 2011)

Not sure if this will go to the right place or not, but my question is in regard to ice dams also. We go away in the winter and because we had ice dams last winter we are very concerned about leaving the house. We USUALLY use the roof rake to keep the snow from building up on the eaves but if we're not here we cannot do that. If we leave heat tape in the gutter and down in the downspout and leave instructions to plug it in when it's below 32, would this be dangerous?
Do you have any suggestions? We bought heat tape last year and used it to melt the ice in the gutters but it was NOT fun to get on that ladder when it was so very cold. We also used old stockings (panty hose) full of ice melt and laid them on the roof to melt the ice and it actually worked very well but was NOT a very pretty site! We live in the suburbs of Chicago.


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## warmsmeallup (Apr 3, 2008)

You could use a temp activation device that plugs into the outlet and then activates the system when the temps drop below 38 degrees. It will stay on until the temps rise above 45 and then autom shut off. Leaving the cable on doesn't hurt anything as long as it doesn't have any cuts in the element.

The old "salt in the sock" routing may work but it's very destructive to all materials; the aluminum or copper gutters and asphalt shingles, if that's what you have.


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