# my shower project, denshield backerboard, tiled walls



## Knucklez

if you like this project, you might like some of my others:

my shower project, denshield backerboard, tiled walls
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=17525

my toilet install, 90 year old home
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=18518

my floor refurbish project
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=19861

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hi everyone, 

just thought i'd post my shower install maybe someone will find useful in the future. if you have any questions or comments just post here and i'll get back to you.

thanks to everyone on this board who has given great advice, your help is immensely appreciated!

ok, for this shower it is my first attempt. my wife wanted a frameless glass and tiled walls. when i started this shower i did not know the pros/cons of denshield or i would have gone full kerdi (which i also had no idea existed until AFTER i started the shower).

i bought a MAAX shower from HD, one that was frameless, the plastic walls were optional (in this case i didn't want them) and comes with a prefabbed reinforced plastic base. this was perfect for me because i didn't trust myself with the custom tiled base, i wanted something fool proof.

ps. the instructions for the base that came with shower said that the drain pipe rubber seal should go on TOP of the base, but that is wrong. there should be silicon on top and the rubber goes under - i was a bit  off when i found this out the hard way.. 

but life goes on and the reno continues :thumbup:


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## Knucklez

first i decided to build a false wall. due to old house i figured it was the only way i was going to get a good flat surface. also, the walls are drywall over lath & plaster so it is a good 1.5 inches before you find the studs.. which themselves are rough cut and are not flat. i used 4" screws to reach the studs and dropped in the framing.

second i placed the base and leveled it meticulously. due to floors having a slope and corners i had to put some 1" board under the feet to raise it up in two of the corners! i'll put quarter round on the bottom at a later date to hide the gap.

i also poured some mortar under the base (after satisfied with dry fit) to add to stability. the mortar was poured in a circle around the draing (i left a 4" gap) and the mortar was about 6" high. the base will push down on the mortar giving good contact. also, i poured some extra mortar in the corner. i did this because when i was standing on the base with both my feet in the corner the front of the shower (where the door would be in the future) actually lifted up off the floor a bit. so i poured mortar under the corner too for added support (there is no leg in the corner, so the mortar acts as a 5th leg on the base).

then it dried and i am much pleased.

i did not screw the base into the studs as instructions did not say. also, advice from different message board said the mortar, glass doors and drain pipe will hold it all stable.


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## Knucklez

then i put up the denshield backerboard. there is much discussion on if this is a good idea or not. well, what can i say, i was ignorant and just bought what looked reasonable and easy for me.

however, manufacturer guarentees the product and if you put waterproofing down the seems then it is even rated for steam shower use.. so must be a good product - right?


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## Knucklez

at this point i found out that denshield is .. OK .. if it is installed properly. 

i had screws that went in too far, some exposed gypsum (hard to see in the picture). i got scared..

but the advice i received was to use 2" 10x10 meshtape with mortar over anything that looked questionable and then redgard waterproof it.

the meshtape i found in the drywall section at HD. they didn't have any in the cement board section, so i just bought it. was $5

the redgard i found in the tile section where they cell sealant. some say it can be found in the roofing section. also from HD.


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## Knucklez

i had to put an extra strip of denshield down the center because my temperature valve stuck out too far! now i have a 3D effect.. good spot to put nice trim i guess.

also, this exposes MORE gypsum, on the top & bottom of this 3D strip. will definitely need meshtape, mortar & redgard here!


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## Knucklez

now it is time to break out the big guns...

$72 for 1 gallon, worth every penny.


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## Knucklez

with a 2" slighly fuzzy roller it goes on fairly easy. my wife took over this task while i posted our progress to the web. unfortunately the corner was difficult to get redgard into with the roller. instead we put on rubber gloves and just rubbed it in there.

on the bucket it explains how thick you need to apply it. but geez.. there's a lot in one bucket so you could easily do two coats.


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## Knucklez

the redgard when on AFTER the mortar was completely dry. it goes on pink, when the redgard dries it turns deep red, takes about 3 hours.

here i show the tiles we plan on using. it is tumbled traveltine, each square is 2"x2". we used tilelab tile sealant, 2 coats, and presaled them.

we will seal them again when on the wall with mortar.

nice thing about these tiles is they are very forgiving. if your line is not perfectly straight, that's ok. the tiles on the mesh from the manufacturer are not perfectly straight! it is supposed to look that way..

you can get these tiles from HD, but if you're in canada you can get them even cheaper from dufferin tile in toronto.


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## Knucklez

the mortar i plan on using to put the tiles on is something i found from HD. it says on the bag it is for stone tiles and is a polymer modified.

my wife wanted a rain shower. but finding some chrome for this shower head was impossible! 

in the end, i found a kitchen sink chrome nozel which was coupled to a 4" chrome exention via the old 1/2" threaded coupling which is rough brass (is designed to look old fashion). the rest of our bathroom is old fashion style so it kinda fits in.


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## Knucklez

the tiling started.. nice thing about tumbled stone is that it is pretty forgiving. since the stones are all different (colour, shape, placement on the mesh tape behind each stone) the look is rough. that's good for beginners who do rough work! ha.


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## Knucklez

i started out by applying a very thin layer of mortar with a 6" trowel. then, i used my notch trowel to thicken up the mortar.


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## Knucklez

here is the tiling done.. 

now i let is dry for a couple of days and will use non-sanded grout.


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## Knucklez

one thing i should mention at this point...

the tiling took me about 6 hours!! i was getting much better at it and faster as i moved a long but sheesh.. this was a lot of work. 

for those professionals out there that would have charged an arm & a leg, all i got to say is its worth every penny... every penny..


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## Knucklez

ok, so now i am grouting. i chose non-sanded polyblend, polymer modified, alabasker colour, grout.

wow, that's a mouth full.


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## Knucklez

i had a foam float and i just put it on according to directions. nothing too complicated here. 

about 5 minutes after i applied it to one section, my wife came by with a damp sponge to wipe away the excess. you're supposed to do this according to the instructions on the box, but it was hard to tell how long you're supposed to wait. anyway, came off looking good so we kept with our plan.


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## Knucklez

here is a picture of the grout job completed. the bottom left panel looks shiny only because its a bit wet from the sponge.

next up.... FRAMELESS GLASS DOORS!

wish me luck


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## Knucklez

now the shower is finally taking shape! putting up the glass doors was not too bad. the hard part was putting on the metal frame straps that hold both side pieces. this was assembled on the floor.. it was hard because you have to lean both glass walls towards each other so you can get the strap in place. definitely takes two people!

the tiles being tumbled are not perfectly smooth like porcelain. the metal rail that runs up the side did not go on perfectly flat but it is a bit flexible so i screwed it in place. then, when i put the glass in, i found that you could extend it a bit so that made up the difference. great, no gap along the wall


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## Knucklez

the brass coupling at the top needs to be hidden. usually it is BEHIND the wall, but for me i didn't think of this until after the job was done... sheesh.. amature 

my father and i came up with another solution that looks good (i hope). this was a 10$ can with lid from Home Sense. we cut a hole out of the top & bottom so the pipe would fit through it. then epoxy it to the tiles.

i still have to paint the walls and stuff, but that's about it. 

oh, i should mention a side note about water pressure! when i first turned the shower on, i got just a drizzle... VERY disappointed!! i got all sorts of "advice" from home depot & rona.. which ranged from:
- no rain shower will ever have enough pressure
- temperature control valve has 3/8" inner bore, so even if you run 1" flex plumbing direct to the shower you'll still have low pressure
- there is such a thing as 'high flow' temperature control but they are illegal (i think?) in canada --> i.e. you have to buy it from ebay

in the end, it was just the areorator that was plugged. haha.. you experts know that you must flush the system for 2 minutes before you screw in the areorator. but that is not written in the book!!! so.. i found out the hard way. least it works great. 

another tip... use painters green tape to make your silicon nice and sharp. i was a little frustrated at the time and didn't bother.. turned out OK, but still could have done it nicer if i were more patient.


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## Knucklez

now i need somewhere to store my soap.

got this 9' tall caddy from Linens & Things. was a bit expensive, but that's what gift certificates are for









so, this is it. final shower done. i really tried to make this a nice shower built to last 50 years... guess time will tell









final cost (from memory so might be wrong..):
wood for framing: $20
4" screws to reach wall studs: $5
bag of mortar to stabalize the base: $10
shower glass & base: $750
silicon: $4
kholer shower hardware: $250
shower caddy: $50
denshield board: $75
redgaurd water proofing: $70
tiles: $500
tile mortar: 2 * $30 = 60$
grout: $20
tools: $15

Total: $1850

skills learned during project = priceless

i have lots of left over water proofing so will come in handy with my next shower project 

its a bit overkill.. but i always built (or try to build) to last 50 years.. when you do this stuff once you realize you never want to do it again! hahaha...
*
so... what do you think?*


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## Demochick

This is an excellent thread..thanks I got a lot of info from it, I am currently adding a shower in my bathroom and I am to the point of where you started. Ill keep you updated on mine as well..but it looks GREAT. One question though....I love how you made the section "pop" out what did you use around the edges?


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## Knucklez

great question!

first, the reason it is popped out in the middle of the shower tile is because the water valve was too far away from the backerboard. i dry fit some tiles and it was still too far away.. so i thought.. crap... i'm in trouble.

so then decided to simply screw on more denshield. it is 6" wide i believe and extends to where i thought the glass door frame would run (you don't want to pop out the door framing!). i chose 6" because it was wide enough to cover the water valve + valve cover, and would not require me to cut any tiles (i have 2x2 tiles).

so i just screwed on some denshield "strips" right over top the denshield first layer. now, the top and bottom of this denshield is essentially exposed gypsum.. which is bad. so i made sure to put a lot of redgaurd water proofing along the top and bottem edge.

then when it was all done i made sure to put caulking all along the top and bottom of this edge.

in retrospect, i wish i had made some 12"x12" recessed boxes in the upper portion of the walls to hold things like soap and shampoo (instead of the shower caddy). maybe next time..

keep in mind i'm not a pro or anything. so take my advice and methods with some serious grains of salt :thumbsup:

Knucklez


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## Demochick

We ran into that same dang problem today, as far as the valve not fitting in the wall...so we moved on..lol..im hoping to find some help...regarding that.. O and being a woman...i remembered the built in caddy..lol


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## Knucklez

good luck with your project.


ps.. on the pop out section, i meant to say THOSE tiles were 1x2 (not 2x2 like the rest of the wall). so as long as the width is an integer number then i wouldn't have to cut any of these tiles. 


you may also want to consider tiling all the way to the ceiling. my wife chose not to because of estedics.. but i think it is better idea to do so. buy hey, what do i know? 

Knucklez


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## baksdak

Wow, awesome write up! Nice step by step along with pics. Final product looks really good!! :thumbup:


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## BleachCola

great pics and nice job


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## njchan

great job ... tiles look amazing ... especially the ones around the midpoint of the shower. is that a rainfall showerhead?

looks great! thanks for the thread.


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## Knucklez

yes that is a kholer rain shower head. the water pressure is decent, its a rain shower, not a thunderstorm.

some people on other message boards said that this shower should be served with 3/4" pipe to get very high water pressure and lots of flow, but what they fail to realize is that the valve has an inside restrictor of 3/8" size.. so it really doesn't matter how much water supply you bring to the room.

and to get a bigger size valve is note code in most locations. 

oh, and i forgot to mention that tiles are sealed with tilelab sealant. they will need to be resealed once a year.

Knucklez


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## kimberland30

Knucklez, great job! I would love to have that shower in our bathroom. Eventually we'll be taking out the old prefabbed shower and tile in the area - but we have 3 walls instead of two. I also love the glass doors.

Will have to show my husband this to let him know what I'm talking about. We might be able to do some sort of recessed shelves in the shower though (I hope). A good friend of ours does tile for a living and has offered to 'help' (meaning, we'll watch while he does it).


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## ACobra289

Great job on the shower! And thanks for the detailed posts. Just curious, did you redguard the whole thing or just the seems?

Bill M.


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## AndyH

Wow what a project, looks awsome!!


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## Knucklez

one thing i learned while renovating an old house .. if someone offers to help, TAKE THEM UP ON ON!!! 

i did not redgaurd the whole thing because i was using denshield backerboard which has a 100% waterproof vynle face. according to the manufacturer, the seams do NOT have to be waterproofed either unless you are building a steam shower. 

so in my shower, adding any redgaurd is complete overkill. but what the hell, it wasn't that expensive and will last a lifetime now. i redgaurded just the seams, and drill holes. but i had so much left over redgaurd i probably could have done the entire thing 3 times and still have enough for another shower in the house.

Knucklez


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## Krichton

Knucklez said:


> now i need somewhere to store my soap.
> 
> got this 9' tall caddy from Linens & Things. was a bit expensive, but that's what gift certificates are for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, this is it. final shower done. i really tried to make this a nice shower built to last 50 years... guess time will tell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> final cost (from memory so might be wrong..):
> wood for framing: $20
> 4" screws to reach wall studs: $5
> bag of mortar to stabalize the base: $10
> shower glass & base: $750
> silicon: $4
> kholer shower hardware: $250
> shower caddy: $50
> denshield board: $75
> redgaurd water proofing: $70
> tiles: $500
> tile mortar: 2 * $30 = 60$
> grout: $20
> tools: $15
> 
> Total: $1850
> 
> skills learned during project = priceless
> 
> i have lots of left over water proofing so will come in handy with my next shower project
> 
> its a bit overkill.. but i always built (or try to build) to last 50 years.. when you do this stuff once you realize you never want to do it again! hahaha...
> *
> so... what do you think?*



Is this the final product? Maybe you should finish up first and then post another picture. Anyway good job so far especially on the plumbing! I personally would have chosen cheaper tile and a glass shower for such a small job though.


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## Knucklez

its not quite done, but is 95%. i still have to add trim around the edges and quater-round along the bottom. also need to paint the wall above it, but i guess technically that's a separate project.

here's a little tip about the plumbing.. the shower head.. it has a slight downward slope to it.. probably due to gravity and lack of support. 

so when the shower is turned off, there is still water in the pipe, it does not drain back to the valve or anything.

but gravity will push it to the shower head... but the shower nipples are very small and so the water does not come out immediately (it takes the pressure from the supply to force it out in a spray). but overtime, the water works its way through.. and once it breaks the seal, whoosh.. a bit of water comes out.. and then its all over. that is like, 1 hour after you turn the water off. does not happen every time.

so there is something that i learned about shower heads that i did not see posted anywhere else. hopefully it is helpful info for someone else.

Knucklez


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## Termite

Knucklez said:


> its not quite done, but is 95%.


That last 5% is the hardest part of the project if you ask me. Hard to find the motivation sometimes!

Good work, looks good.


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## Knucklez

thx.

yes, still sitting at 95% as i am now residing my house and also in middle of kitchen reno. so .. might be a few more months yet before i can get back to it 

in the mean time... i thought of a solution to the rain shower dripping water issue. if you install the water spout for feet washing (like the same spout as used in common bathtub) then when you're done taking a shower you can turn on the feet washer to relieve the pressure in the line :yes:

Knucklez


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## mookie_monster

*Would love to see end result*

looks like you did an awesome job. Those are the same tiles that I used in my bathroom with a polyblend sanded grout, linen in colour. Much better job then what my carpenters did, so doing it yourself definately pays off sometimes......


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## jeeper

Hey Knucklez

How did you find out the drain was in wrong? I picked up the same base and same drain instructions and still says rubber gasket on top of base?


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## oldrivers

Knucklez said:


> its not quite done, but is 95%. i still have to add trim around the edges and quater-round along the bottom. also need to paint the wall above it, but i guess technically that's a separate project.
> 
> here's a little tip about the plumbing.. the shower head.. it has a slight downward slope to it.. probably due to gravity and lack of support.
> 
> so when the shower is turned off, there is still water in the pipe, it does not drain back to the valve or anything.
> 
> but gravity will push it to the shower head... but the shower nipples are very small and so the water does not come out immediately (it takes the pressure from the supply to force it out in a spray). but overtime, the water works its way through.. and once it breaks the seal, whoosh.. a bit of water comes out.. and then its all over. that is like, 1 hour after you turn the water off. does not happen every time.
> 
> so there is something that i learned about shower heads that i did not see posted anywhere else. hopefully it is helpful info for someone else.
> 
> Knucklez


there is probably a crome shutoff valve of some sort you could add by the head to stop that. maybe a diverter valve for a hand massager with the end capped off or something, looks good though.


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## retired guy 60

Very nice job. I just remodeled my bathroom. Used denseshield around the tub but had some anxiety about water wicking and screw holes. I ended up replacing the denseshield with Hardiboard prior to tiling. Found the denseshield easier to cut and lighter in weight. However it's water proof quality hinges on a paper thin layer of vinyl or possibly fiberglass which I found disturbing. Removing a 1/2 inch strip of Hardibacker board is not easy but despite manufacturer cautions, the best way is to use a table saw with a carbide blade. This should be done outdoors and with a OSHA approved respirator, not a paper dust mask. With Redguard you should be fine.


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## Knucklez

jeeper; simple, i consulted a pro. 

Knucklez


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## fcmazz

*Looks Good - lip*



Knucklez said:


> now i need somewhere to store my soap.
> 
> got this 9' tall caddy from Linens & Things. was a bit expensive, but that's what gift certificates are for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, this is it. final shower done. i really tried to make this a nice shower built to last 50 years... guess time will tell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> final cost (from memory so might be wrong..):
> wood for framing: $20
> 4" screws to reach wall studs: $5
> bag of mortar to stabalize the base: $10
> shower glass & base: $750
> silicon: $4
> kholer shower hardware: $250
> shower caddy: $50
> denshield board: $75
> redgaurd water proofing: $70
> tiles: $500
> tile mortar: 2 * $30 = 60$
> grout: $20
> tools: $15
> 
> Total: $1850
> 
> skills learned during project = priceless
> 
> i have lots of left over water proofing so will come in handy with my next shower project
> 
> its a bit overkill.. but i always built (or try to build) to last 50 years.. when you do this stuff once you realize you never want to do it again! hahaha...
> *
> so... what do you think?*


Did you but up the tile to the lip of the shower base or did your overlap the lip on top of the tiles? Thanks


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## Knucklez

the instructions for the shower showed a picture of how this was supposed to be done. it showed a tile hanging over the lip but 1/2" off the base bottom. so if water were running down the tile, it would eventually find its way to the base/drain. 

i had just small 2x2 tiles so this was more difficult than expected. just did the best i could.

Knucklez


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## Bud Cline

> Very nice job. I just remodeled my bathroom. Used denseshield around the tub but had some anxiety about water wicking and screw holes. I ended up replacing the denseshield with Hardiboard prior to tiling. Found the denseshield easier to cut and lighter in weight. However it's water proof quality hinges on a paper thin layer of vinyl or possibly fiberglass which I found disturbing. Removing a 1/2 inch strip of Hardibacker board is not easy but despite manufacturer cautions, the best way is to use a table saw with a carbide blade. This should be done outdoors and with a OSHA approved respirator, not a paper dust mask. With Redguard you should be fine.


Denshield IS FULLY WATERPROOF because of the cladding. Any fastener penetrations must be addressed (waterproofed) by applying a little caulk or waterproofing to the head of the fasteners. The corners and seams must also be waterproofed.

Hardibacker IS NOT waterproof. It will wick water. Hardibacker just won't deteriorate over time from the moisture but it will allow moisture into the wall cavity whereas Denshield will not.


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## jackie treehorn

Looks awesome, giving me some ideas...


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## Knucklez

Bud Cline - yep. i got similar info from the manufacturer's website back when i was deciding between the two materials. denshield is perfectly warrentied for a steam shower too, which just goes to show the manufacturer believes in their product (when used as directed). 


with hardibacker or cement board, you have to waterproof the surface or at least heavy vapour barrier the studs because cement is extremely pourous. it is not harmed by the water that is true, but you still must deal with it. 

Knucklez


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