# Bought house sight unseen - Renovating



## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I'm a bit hesitant to post this project, I don't want the previous occupants put in a bad light. They are very nice people and hard workers, I think this house became too much for them.

Back story - my wife and purchased a home sight unseen on the courthouse steps at an auction. It is in a desirable neighborhood (to us) and we thought that it couldn't be that bad. I mean...we've watched the tv shows and were prepared. 

These photos are all from last fall. I am doing most of the work by myself or with some assistance from my father. I've learned a lot along the way and left plenty of room for critiques.

Street View


Following the legal procedures that had to be followed, we were left with a lot of....stuff in the house.

Front Porch


Master Bedroom


Master Bathroom


2nd Bedroom


3rd Bedroom


Attic


Garage


No photos of the basement at this time - could not access it.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Wow. This will be interesting to follow.

Hope the basement was not effected by those big trees on the corner of the house. Keep us posted


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

You have some work to do. Hope you stole it at the right price. It will be nice when done.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

LOL, it comes complete with a 40 year collection of junk. At least that part of home ownership is already done.

Well, it is the neighborhood that you bought, and that can't be changed. But everything else can be and we are glad to help. Forgive us if we snicker.

Bud


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Lots and lots of "stuff", as you said, but so much potential for your house. It's going to be beautiful some day. I can't wait to see what that big front porch looks like when you're done with it.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

You are a braver man than I am. I will research $50 tool purchases.

You and your wife have a lot of work ahead of you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

My first suggestion is rent a commercial dumpster. Gather up some friends, a dozen pizzas, a couple cases of beer and have a dumpster party. Don't forget work gloves and masks or better yet respirators.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Over the past 100 or so years, an immense amount of DIY was attempted/started.

If I had to some most of it up in one photo, this would be it...



I would estimate I spent 30 hrs removing bent nails, screws, and random bits of metal wire sticking out of nearly all locations at eye, groin, and knee level. Not all at once mind you, just after it poked or caught me.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Are you going to take everything out, down to the studs, wiring and plumbing?


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

gma2rjc said:


> Are you going to take everything out, down to the studs, wiring and plumbing?


Not originally, but scope creep has occurred and I've removed much more than I originally thought in even my 'worst case' scenario.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Drachenfire said:


> You are a braver man than I am. I will research $50 tool purchases.
> 
> You and your wife have a lot of work ahead of you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
> 
> My first suggestion is rent a commercial dumpster. Gather up some friends, a dozen pizzas, a couple cases of beer and have a dumpster party. Don't forget work gloves and masks or better yet respirators.


Great suggestion and one that I would have followed.

It was going to be about $1,000 to $1,500 to get a 40ft roll off dumpster. At the time I had access to two 6 cubic yard dumpsters in town that were emptied twice a week.

I'm sure you can see where my logic led me. I hauled everything out truckload at a time. I could normally stuff 2 truck loads worth of stuff in each dumpster, which equaled 8 truck loads a week.

I think I hauled the last truck load of stuff out nearly 2 months after I started.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Are you going to live in it while you renovate, it slows the process immensely. 
100 years old with no proper maintenance it needs a complete overhaul, as suggested, down to the studs. Hopefully the framing is good so you don't have to go down to the foundation.

Read up on where to look for lead (inside and outside paint and plumbing), asbestos, and possibly knob and tube wiring. Be sure your insurance company and bank if you used one, are happy with you doing the work. And check with your town to see what permits are required and where you can do the work vs bringing in a licensed contractor.

Bud


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I'd like to follow along as well.

Are all of you guys seeing pics on this thread?


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Post #1 (9) and post #7 (1) have pictures 
Bud


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I can see the pics.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

No doubt the gutters on the front of the house are packed solid with debris from the trees.

Those trees coming down ?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

123pugsy said:


> I'd like to follow along as well.
> 
> Are all of you guys seeing pics on this thread?



I got the pics up. Wow, what a mess.

Good luck with it. We love lots of pics. (now that I can see them also) :wink2:


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

I'll follow this with interest and throw in whenever I can.

I had a husband/wife real estate pair do the same thing, only they were in Florida when they bought it with only frontal pictures with trees, etc. and an inspection report. They sent me the report and asked if I could perform what was needed. Well it turned out to be a mobile home. Nothing wrong with mobile homes, mind you, but this one had floors of the obligatory presswood which had severe water damage, shower units without control valves, holes in the floor where toilets were supposed to be, kitchen cabinets hanging off the wall. Naturally I took pictures and sent him a proposal which he, I think, had an immediate heart attack. We won't even get into the smell.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

123pugsy said:


> I got the pics up. Wow, what a mess.
> 
> Good luck with it. We love lots of pics. (now that I can see them also) :wink2:


How were you able to view the pics? And why are people having trouble with pics in this particular thread? I am not seeing any.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

Never mind. They show in Chrome. Weird.


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## cee3peeoh (Sep 12, 2017)

I just gotta get in on this.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

badtheba said:


> How were you able to view the pics? And why are people having trouble with pics in this particular thread? I am not seeing any.


Log out, delete your cookie for this site and log back in.
I believe it has something to do with the recent password changes.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

123pugsy said:


> I'd like to follow along as well.
> 
> Are all of you guys seeing pics on this thread?


Hi 123pugsy - I was messing around with my photo hosting stuff. I think it's fixed now, but if you (or anyone else) cannot see the photos please let me know.

Thanks!


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Bud9051 said:


> Are you going to live in it while you renovate, it slows the process immensely.
> 100 years old with no proper maintenance it needs a complete overhaul, as suggested, down to the studs. Hopefully the framing is good so you don't have to go down to the foundation.
> 
> Read up on where to look for lead (inside and outside paint and plumbing), asbestos, and possibly knob and tube wiring. Be sure your insurance company and bank if you used one, are happy with you doing the work. And check with your town to see what permits are required and where you can do the work vs bringing in a licensed contractor.
> ...


We will not live here as we renovate. I don't know if the marriage could take it! :vs_worry:

The city allows me (the homeowner) to do nearly everything. I had to get a load study done on the garage roof, which I am turning into an exterior raised patio. 

The inspectors/city engineers are very easy to work with, answer any code questions I have, and have given me advice on what they think will work best.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> Hi 123pugsy - I was messing around with my photo hosting stuff. I think it's fixed now, but if you (or anyone else) cannot see the photos please let me know.
> 
> Thanks!


photo are still missing. I would just post them again.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Glad to hear you are utilizing your building officials to keep you on track and for good advice. Far too many posters view them as adversaries and try to avoid any contact. 

Good job,

Bud


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> photo are still missing. I would just post them again.



Try what I posted in #21


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> Try what I posted in #21


Yes, just start over instead of trying to fix them.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Oh my stars and garters, I bet your chin dropped down to your knees when you first saw all that stuff, I know mine would have. :vs_shocked:

If you already have that stuff cleaned out you have really done some serious work already. If we can help just let us know.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Nealtw said:


> Yes, just start over instead of trying to fix them.



The photos are not missing.
Problem is in the user's browser that is trying to look at them.
After deleting cookie and re-logging in, pics were visible for me.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Good luck. Looks like a heullva project, and I'm glad I get to just watch :wink2:


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

123pugsy said:


> The photos are not missing.
> Problem is in the user's browser that is trying to look at them.
> After deleting cookie and re-logging in, pics were visible for me.


At first I clicked on them and they came up. then it changed so the pictures of the tree trimming with a red pick up parked out front were not there.
Now they are gone for me.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

NickTheGreat said:


> Good luck. Looks like a heullva project, and I'm glad I get to just watch :wink2:


I've got to finish my project soon so I'll be able to just sit back and watch as well.
Where's the popcorn? :smile:


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

The first order of business was cleaning up the outside. The city was not happy with the property and I received a notice that we (the new owners) would be fined up to $500 per day every day until the property was cleaned up.

I decided this was a good time to take the trees down.




Once the trees were down, I noticed a problem. It may be difficult to tell in this photo, but there are bare wood planks exposed on the dormer. 


I was already anticipating and budgeting for a new roof, but I thought I could wait until Spring of 2017 to put it on. It was mid to late October when I noticed this.

There are actually two chimneys. Below is the 2nd chimney that was part of the original coal furnace heating system.


I wanted to keep the fireplace that was vented through the chimney that can be seen from the front of the house. Unfortunately, a natural gas hot water tank and a gas fireplace conversion kit has been vented through it without a liner. My understanding is the exhaust from natural gas rapidly deteriorates the mortar.

When the chimney guys came up to inspect, they nearly knocked the main chimney over by simply leaning on it. Estimate to repair - $10,000.

I removed both chimneys.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

QUOTE Fisher 1871: The city was not happy with the property and I received a notice that we (the new owners) would be fined up to $500 per day every day until the property was cleaned up.
**************************************************
So the city finally found someone with money that they could fine and took advantage of it. Sounds about right.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would loose the chimneys before spending that kind of money. Just put in B vent for what is needed.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Nice "welcome to our town". That notice could have been worded in an entirely different context, "welcome, what can we do to help you? Feel free to come in and talk." Then when you sit down the condition of the lot could be discussed.

Bud


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> Nice "welcome to our town". That notice could have been worded in an entirely different context, "welcome, what can we do to help you? Feel free to come in and talk." Then when you sit down the condition of the lot could be discussed.
> 
> Bud


Where I am these properties change hands a few times and the city is always a little behind. So they are already fed up and jump on any new owner that does not hide their address.
They should go talk to the city and make some promises and they should be fine.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Removing the trees made it 1000% better on eye appeal. Had you not removed the trees, as you say, you may not have been aware of the roofing problem until it was really too late. You're doing good. Keep up the good work !!


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I made some headway in debris removal. Not much. I estimate that I hauled about 30 tons of garbage out.

The car was left for me to deal with. It contained several window AC units.


Attic






Master Bedroom - Majorly heavy furniture. I thought to donate it to our local Restore (Habitat for Humanity), but they didn't want to mess with it.


Basement - I wanted to show the basement stairs. Very rickety. Maybe it is common practice, but the riser in the center of the stairs is actually a 2x4 with the trimmings from one of the solid risers nailed to it.


Garage


Outside. I zoomed in a bit on a photo of the front of the house. It is not readily apparent, but there is a large shed along the right hand side of the house. It was approx 10'x12' and full of stuff. Among that stuff was 20-30 computer monitors - the old heavy ones from the early 90s.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Too bad you can't take those monitors to the dump. You'll have to dispose of them via an electronics depletion site to do it right. You know.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

The top seven links to pictures all bring up the same pictures and don't seem to fit your description. Only the last one posted as a picture in post.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> The top seven links to pictures all bring up the same pictures and don't seem to fit your description. Only the last one posted as a picture in post.


Smug mug is not being very user friendly....let me try this again. Same Order.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

chandler48 said:


> Too bad you can't take those monitors to the dump. You'll have to dispose of them via an electronics depletion site to do it right. You know.


I thought the same thing. However, my city reversed that policy about a month before I bought the house. I took the time to call and confirm. They took every monitor and TV. The sticking point was that I am allowed to put out up to 6 items per week...which I found out after the first time I set out like 30 bags.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I know you are showing the mess, I am seeing what was a beautiful house in it's day with what looks like good bones. Not sure you can bring it all back but you sure have lot's to work with as well as lots of work to do. The big furniture should be salable.


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## wagoner (May 26, 2017)

This has so much potential.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Bud9051 said:


> Nice "welcome to our town". That notice could have been worded in an entirely different context, "welcome, what can we do to help you? Feel free to come in and talk." Then when you sit down the condition of the lot could be discussed.
> 
> Bud


Everyone is just a number to city officials and sometimes not even the right one. 

A couple months ago, I get a notice of violation in the mail. It had my name and address on it but every violation listed was for a house across the street. I had to call the inspector about this and he said he would schedule another visit. I insisted he make another visit that day as I wanted this off the county records ASAP.

He called me back an hour later (I was at work) and apologized. He went back and checked the address and found he made a mistake. He also confirmed that the notice to my address was removed from the county records.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

After much contemplation, I decided to remove the chimney all the way down to the main floor. Originally, I only took it down below the roof line so if I wanted to build it back up I had that option.

However, removing the chimney opens up the larger of the two guest bedrooms. If I at some point in the future want a fireplace feature, I will have a gas insert installed. I also have trust issues with roofers and eliminating the chimneys eliminates one of the top areas I see water infiltration.

Removing a 100 year old chimney is a dirty job.


The guest room before removing chimney. As you can see in the top right corner - lots of water damage.


About halfway...


Finished.


Nicely stacked and for free on craigslist, facebook, etc.


The fireplace and mantel that I left in the living room. The tile in front of the fireplace will be removed and replaced. Not sure with the style/color yet.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

:thumbup: Well done.


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## wagoner (May 26, 2017)

How large is the lot?


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## 1995droptopz (Sep 14, 2010)

Looks like a lot of work, but will be worth it in the end.


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## LanterDan (Jul 3, 2006)

Interesting project for sure.

Can I ask how long it took to remove the chimney? I'm thinking about removing one come spring. My dad is pressuring me to get a contractor for the demo part, but I'm not convinced that is necessary. We removed one growing up, but I was too young to really remember it well.


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## Cattman (Sep 1, 2009)

I took down 2 including one double flue in an old farmhouse I gutted. Did both in a day with 3 helpers and a loader tractor. But, I had dug a pit in the back with a backhoe and disposal was easy..lol


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

LanterDan said:


> Interesting project for sure.
> 
> Can I ask how long it took to remove the chimney? I'm thinking about removing one come spring. My dad is pressuring me to get a contractor for the demo part, but I'm not convinced that is necessary. We removed one growing up, but I was too young to really remember it well.


It took me about 4 hours total - 2 hour blocks after work on two consecutive days. And two six packs of beer. 

Get some breathing protection. It was filthy.

I used a 5lb mini sledgehammer. The mortar was so deteriorated that one wack would loosen 2 bricks.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

wagoner said:


> How large is the lot?


It's like .2 acres. That excludes a 10ft right away on three sides of the property. It is two lots in this neighborhood.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

While I did not to a total gut job - I did remove the 'wet stack'. That being the kitchen and both bathrooms upstairs.

This also allowed me access to upgrade all plumbing, hvac, and most electricity throughout the entire house. At this point - I have not installed a new kitchen or bathrooms. Never enough time!

The kitchen before






The kitchen during










The last photo is a camera shoot looking up at the flooring of the bathrooms & plumbing on the 2nd floor. 

There was not much floor or joist left under either toilet. There were also 2 heavy iron claw foot bathtubs...


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Kitchen after


Someone liked to notch joists...




The hardwood flooring had been marinating in animal urine and leaked rotten freezer meat water. I removed it.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

If you refer back to the photo looking up at the plumbing, you can see that about half was car parts - radiator hoses, etc.

I'm also currently debating removing the subfloor in the kitchen. There is to much bounce as it is to lay tile. I'm wondering if I install a new subfloor, can I then lay tile?


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Fisher1871 said:


> .....It is in a desirable neighborhood (to us) _*and we thought that it couldn't be that bad*_.


What's your opinion now ?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

No way I would have ever opened that fridge! Wow!


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Wow is right.......WOW! :surprise:


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## LanterDan (Jul 3, 2006)

Fisher1871 said:


> I'm also currently debating removing the subfloor in the kitchen. There is to much bounce as it is to lay tile. I'm wondering if I install a new subfloor, can I then lay tile?


First determine if you existing floor joists can support tile. Measure their size, spacing, and unsupported span and then head here. With a house this age, there is a good chance you may need to beef up whats there.

Once you determine your joists are sufficient, then worry about the subfloor.


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## 1995droptopz (Sep 14, 2010)

Fisher1871 said:


> I'm also currently debating removing the subfloor in the kitchen. There is to much bounce as it is to lay tile. I'm wondering if I install a new subfloor, can I then lay tile?


I just removed the 1/2" plywood subfloor in my bathroom due to rot and bounce. It was suggested to me that my options were to remove the existing and replace with 3/4" T&G or leave and go over with 5/8". I chose to remove it because I felt better with a solid floor right to the joists free of squeaks. It was quite a bit of work to cut it all out and install blocking around the perimeter, but the end result is great.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

I concur with drop. If laying tile I'd want to take it all the way to the joists and even see about sistering them if needed.

Our house has 2x8 joists, but every single one of them is notched from below for water supply lines, and notched at the beam, effectively making them 2x6's. Drives me crazy. Any time I do anything major to a room I try to correct the deflection.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

r0ckstarr said:


> No way I would have ever opened that fridge! Wow!


It was...unpleasant. Juices were leaking through the floor into the basement.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

LanterDan said:


> First determine if you existing floor joists can support tile. Measure their size, spacing, and unsupported span and then head here. With a house this age, there is a good chance you may need to beef up whats there.
> 
> Once you determine your joists are sufficient, then worry about the subfloor.


Thanks for the link. I don't know the span or spacing off hand - they are 2x8s. One side is resting on top of the top plate of the foundation. The other side (interior side) are toe nailed to the face of the main beam.


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## ZackRight (Nov 4, 2017)

lots of work, but definitely there's good material to work with...good luck!


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

2nd floor bathrooms. I'm not sure if there were originally 2 bathrooms or if the one large bathroom was divided up at some point in the past. Either way, I'm fortunate that 2 bathrooms are possible in this old house.

I don't know where the family used the restroom or bathed. The master bath was completely non-functional. The hallway bath wasn't much better.

Hallway Bathroom






Master Bath








I don't know how the toilet didn't fall down into the kitchen.


Same photo of the notched joists from earlier in this thread - this is a photo from above.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I thought about keeping and refinishing the bathtubs. After lots of research, the consensus is that even a perfect refinishing won't last nearly as long as the original factory finish.

Also, I didn't feel like carrying them back up the stairs after refinishing. Gone, baby, gone.





Also, neither had functioning hardware.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

MAN those joists are funky. And not in the good George Clinton kind of funky


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

It is amazing who some of these bathroom never ended up in the basement.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

SPS-1 said:


> What's your opinion now ?


One huge lesson learned for the next time (if there is a next time).

I would have two 40ft dumpsters dropped on site and hire some college kids or unskilled labor and have them remove everything from the house and gut it/clean up. Start with a blank slate. 

It took me weeks to clean the place after work and on weekends.


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## wagoner (May 26, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> One huge lesson learned for the next time (if there is a next time).
> 
> I would have two 40ft dumpsters dropped on site and hire some college kids or unskilled labor and have them remove everything from the house and gut it/clean up. Start with a blank slate.
> 
> It took me weeks to clean the place after work and on weekends.


I bought this vacant lot 20 minutes outside the city I work in early 2015. It is at the end of this dead end road. And right next to it is another lot. They each have a clearing on the edge where the street is. So the road separates these two clearings, then the rest of the lots touch and turn into thick woods. No one had been down there is years obviously. So I looked up the records and contacted the owner and bought that second lot. Owner has got it in 96 and abandoned it around 2010.

There was an old trailer on it with so much junk inside and out. The fridge was very much like the one in this thread. There was some odd stuff in there. I just gave the trailer away since all I paid for really was the lot. Then I used an old 8N tractor to just drag all the trash into two big piles. I lit one on fire and just kept pushing stuff into it with the back of the blade. Then when all the wood and leaves were burned I just shoveled it into the truck bed. I still have to get up the second pile. But man that was a lot of work. I even cut out a lot of roots that had grown under trailer so I could drag stuff out. I can't imagine having to have cleaned the trailer out. 

Cleaning this house out seems like so much more of a chore.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

1 step forward, .95 steps back.

Furnace was no bueno. Probably...35% efficient. The returns were not connected, what was connected was being choked - oh, and the filter boot cover only stayed on when the furnace was running and creating a suction.

Lots of duct tape holding stuff together that should probably not be secured using only duct tape.
Furnace


Once I took all the duct work out and got into the evap coil, I found out the evap coil pan was broken. It was $50 for a new plastic pan. I opted for a new evap coil all together.

Outside compressor.


Old coal chute perhaps, this was behind the compressor and is the exhaust for the furnace. A rotten piece of plywood. Note: I have a spider problem in my basement.


Since I am going to redo the electricity in the house, I removed the current overhead service with the plan to install an underground service.


Service Removed


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I left off with upgrading the HVAC and ended up removing the overhead electrical service. Photos will be added tomorrow if I get time to stop by the house and take a few.

In the mean time, here is a photo of some hot sauce that will ruin your weekend. It did mine.:vs_mad:


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## cee3peeoh (Sep 12, 2017)

I hope you ate icecream after the sauce.

You are up in the millions in Scoville Units!

Hurry up icecream!!!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Fisher1871 said:


> I left off with upgrading the HVAC and ended up removing the overhead electrical service. Photos will be added tomorrow if I get time to stop by the house and take a few.
> 
> In the mean time, here is a photo of some hot sauce that will ruin your weekend. It did mine.:vs_mad:


I like spicy but that is pure pain, not this ole boy.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Classic DIY move. I decided to change the furnace filter and ended up removing all the duct work, rerouting and installing new duct work, replacing the evap coil, removing the overhead electric service and replacing with an underground service, and installing a new electric panel.

Overhead service is gone and I needed to reconnect the furnace to heat the house.

The local rental center had a ditch witch I could rent. I called Miss Utility to mark all the underground lines and got a permit from the city to do the work. The city engineer and I met on site to discuss the best placement of the trench.

The photo below shows the placement of the the trench. I had to come off the pole at a diagonal for about 10 ft and then run parallel to the road due to the city road right of way.


I started digging at 8am. At 8:01 I hit a gas line that was unmarked.


By about 11am the gas company showed up. It was a circus. I let them do their thing and took the ditch witch to start digging the trench at the house rather than the pole.


The gas company retraced and marked all the lines and said we were good to go. I had a gut feeling when I was about 10ft from the pool and decided to shut the ditch witch down and hand dug the rest of the trench. 

Thankfully I did. The original line I hit was 1" in diameter - you can see the repair on the smaller line in the photo. When digging by hand I ran into a 4" gas line.




Anyway, I had everything inspected and a mere 7 weeks later the electric company finally had time to pull the line and place the meter in the meter socket.


The old 100 amp (I think) panel. I've removed everything at this point.


The new 200am panel with just the furnace, one outlet, and the garage door installed.


Next up is duct work and basement window replacements.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Man, sure sounds like you had a blast hitting that gas line.
Some guys have all the fun. :surprise:


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Winter is coming and in addition to wiring in the furnace, replacing the broken basement windows and pieces of plywood acting as glass was the next best step.

Before


During


Nothing is exactly straight on this place, so I tried to split the difference to make the window level, but also not look wonky with the siding.


After






I think that the glass block windows came out ok. A real mason would not admit to doing the work, but the place is better sealed and more secure now.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

As long as there are no bedrooms down there.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> As long as there are no bedrooms down there.


No bedrooms - just an unfinished basement with a half bath and laundry/storage area.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Getting ready to re-wire house.

Prepping by removing some baseboards on second floor in order to install outlet boxes. This will allow me to pull wire and install the boxes without removing large amounts of plaster/lathes. I can then reinstall baseboard and molding and cover the areas I disturbed when pulling wire.

Currently, most outlets are either in the floor or were installed by simply running track and mounting the box on the wall. 

Anyway, my parents always said to not cut corners. I don't think they meant it like this...


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Thats going to be a beautiful house when you finish. Are you going to sell or move in? It's sad about the former owners. I'm queasy after seeing the fridge. Around here wood floors are popular. Wood and laminate.
Glad you have a good relationship with city officials. The one stairway, next to toy box looked like it had steep risers. Do you have an estimated date of completion? 

When I lived in Ohio there was an interesting place that sold authentic architectural things out of old houses for people renovating. There were many things I wish I could have used. Neat old doors, mantles, bannisters, furnace register grates, windows, etc.

Good luck


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Startingover said:


> Thats going to be a beautiful house when you finish. Are you going to sell or move in? It's sad about the former owners. I'm queasy after seeing the fridge. Around here wood floors are popular. Wood and laminate.
> Glad you have a good relationship with city officials. The one stairway, next to toy box looked like it had steep risers. Do you have an estimated date of completion?
> 
> When I lived in Ohio there was an interesting place that sold authentic architectural things out of old houses for people renovating. There were many things I wish I could have used. Neat old doors, mantles, bannisters, furnace register grates, windows, etc.
> ...


Our plan is to move in. Hopefully sometime this spring, once the interior is complete. I will have some remaining outside work that I will complete once we are moved and I have sold my current house.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Startingover nailed it with the steepness of the basement stairs. Unfortunately, the steepness could not be rectified due to some structural issues. In the end, the new stairs are a bit steeper (but still in code). 

Original Stairs


I actually removed and replaced these awhile ago. The replacement was prompted when some family came to visit and I was giving a tour. We all ended up on the steps at the same time and there was some noise/deflection that made me nervous.

Old stairs out


One riser


Two risers installed


Stairs complete (bad photo)


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

As I installed new duct work and planned for the freshwater lines and plumbing, I took care of some additional odds/ends.

I pulled up the kitchen floor and found abandoned holes for heat supplies. Also the sub floor was out of whack and some of the sub floor planks were rotten/cracked. Eventually I'll replace the exterior door that goes from the kitchen to the rear porch.


The worst of the offenders were replaced.


It was about this time I entered the danger zone. Meaning, I am waiting on the kitchen/bath design guy to get back with me. This is prime time to fix additional parts of the house until they are broken.

The master bedroom closet. It needed fixing.


Again, I found some questionable carpentry.






There was a header where the attic joists joined with no support. It was just hanging there. I added a temporary support and will correct this when I frame the closet.


As I continued to wait for the designer, a few buddies and I took a trip to Colorado. I hiked up to the top of peak 6 at Breckenridge and threw myself off the top of the mountain.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sounds like you now have a good understanding of the phrase "expect the unexpected". During the walk through phase of buying an old house (which you skipped) there is SO much you cannot see and I find the more curb appeal they have given it the more they are hiding. You are making great progress and if you live through this you will truly enjoy the results.

Best
Bud


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## wagoner (May 26, 2017)

That questionable carpentry picture picture reminds me of my house. It was built in 1915 and I knew some framing would be odd. It had this gas fireplace with the gas line capped off sticking out of the brick. The gas isn't connected to anything in the house. The meter goes straight to furnace which is an all in one unit outside. 

The fireplace was in a weird spot and very shallow so I just removed all the bricks down to the base and put brown paper over that section of wall. The wall behind it was framed odd. I haven't pulled off the plaster and lathe on that section yet to get an overall look.. But that section of wall behind the fire place looks like it was framed like a regular stud wall but the very end is a small section of wall, but the base plate sits lower than the base plate on the section next to it and the edge of the small section doesn't have an end stud and there is a gap in the bottom plates. And it looks like there may not be sub floor under part of it.

I am waiting to re do that entire room and tarp off the cased opening before I open everything up in there. Good news was when I looked up the wall, there was a header. So chances are it isn't balloon framed.

Really like following your project. Glad you got the floors fixed. makes me less nervous when I have to do that.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

wagoner said:


> That questionable carpentry picture picture reminds me of my house. It was built in 1915 and I knew some framing would be odd. It had this gas fireplace with the gas line capped off sticking out of the brick. The gas isn't connected to anything in the house. The meter goes straight to furnace which is an all in one unit outside.
> 
> The fireplace was in a weird spot and very shallow so I just removed all the bricks down to the base and put brown paper over that section of wall. The wall behind it was framed odd. I haven't pulled off the plaster and lathe on that section yet to get an overall look.. But that section of wall behind the fire place looks like it was framed like a regular stud wall but the very end is a small section of wall, but the base plate sits lower than the base plate on the section next to it and the edge of the small section doesn't have an end stud and there is a gap in the bottom plates. And it looks like there may not be sub floor under part of it.
> 
> ...


The house was built with the hole for the fireplace and when the bricklayers were done they just framed it in, what ever. Things like that are still done today.


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## wagoner (May 26, 2017)

Nealtw said:


> The house was built with the hole for the fireplace and when the bricklayers were done they just framed it in, what ever. Things like that are still done today.


Well I am talking sub-floor. The wall frame doesn't look like it has sub-floor under part of it. And it makes no sense for the end of the wall to have that skinny section of wall that steps down and be missing the end stud. I haven't seen any framing today where there isn't sub floor under a section of wall frame.

You can see the step down and missing stud in this pic. The gap doesn't look as big in the pic. I shined my light down but haven't gotten under the house to look. Doesn't seem like there is a sub-floor under that section of wall. I was under there to look at the base but didn't pay any attention to the sub-floor.

You can see the brick base in front of the wall and the trim ends where the edge of it was.

https://imgur.com/a/sisGd

But I don't mean to hi-jack this thread... Keep the project updates coming!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> As I installed new duct work and planned for the freshwater lines and plumbing, I took care of some additional odds/ends.
> 
> I pulled up the kitchen floor and found abandoned holes for heat supplies. Also the sub floor was out of whack and some of the sub floor planks were rotten/cracked. Eventually I'll replace the exterior door that goes from the kitchen to the rear porch.
> 
> ...


 I just noticed and Don't know if is covered before or it might be to late.
The gap between the studs at floor level should be blocked when you find them


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I think I understand what you mean.

When I rebuild the closet, I'll frame it out with a base plate and a double top plate. 

I think that the header (currently a doubled 2x4 flat) supporting the the butted ends of the attic joists is insufficient. The closet walls won't be load bearing per say, but will add additional support.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> I think I understand what you mean.
> 
> When I rebuild the closet, I'll frame it out with a base plate and a double top plate.
> 
> I think that the header (currently a doubled 2x4 flat) supporting the the butted ends of the attic joists is insufficient. The closet walls won't be load bearing per say, but will add additional support.


 Todays houses have a platform on top of walls and the next set of walls are built on that. Older house had full height studs and the floor was hung off the studs leaving a gap at the outside. Fire from the basement can get to the attic in 30 seconds so when ever you expose that detail you want solid blocking between the studs at the floor and the ceiling It can also be done from the basement and attic.
See your picture 1 in my last post. You can loose your marbles down the wall.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Todays houses have a platform on top of walls and the next set of walls are built on that. Older house had full height studs and the floor was hung off the studs leaving a gap at the outside. Fire from the basement can get to the attic in 30 seconds so when ever you expose that detail you want solid blocking between the studs at the floor and the ceiling It can also be done from the basement and attic.
> See your picture 1 in my last post. You can loose your marbles down the wall.


Got it. 

That is something I've been thinking about for awhile actually. An open cavity like that from basically the basement to the attic is a perfect chimney.

Would Roxul be an adequate firebreak? I could look into the firebreak foam stuff in a can as well.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> Got it.
> 
> That is something I've been thinking about for awhile actually. An open cavity like that from basically the basement to the attic is a perfect chimney.
> 
> Would Roxul be an adequate firebreak? I could look into the firebreak foam stuff in a can as well.


 I bet you have a full 2x4 stud. push your insulation down past the floor than just above the floor block the space with 2x? likely have to cut the width from 2x6. Fire stopping is the term and it should have a 30+min burn thru rate. Can be 1/2" drywall, plywood, osb or lumber.
With the floor if you don't get it down and tight to the floor and the drywall does not cover the gap it can still get to the room.
So solid block at the floor or level with floor and finish with the fire stop foam. I think new codes also call for that solid blocking at about the middle of the wall.

The real important stuff is the stuff you ever see again.:biggrin2:


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## ave8er (Jan 22, 2018)

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the play by play


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Way too many irons in the fire!

Framing the closet


I'm going to remove the old chewed up pine hardwood floor in this short hallway and replace with oak. Additionally, I purchased an antique look alike air return cover that will be at the top of the stairs (off set a few inches) and run the full width of the hallway. This is the only feasible place to stick a return to the 2nd floor.


I ran a supply to the outer wall in one of the bedrooms. The flooring in the bedrooms will end up being carpet. Not my favorite flooring, but makes the most sense in this case.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

This will end up being two bathrooms. The toilet flanges are installed here.


Plumbing for the 2nd floor bathrooms looking up. All plumbing will be in a wet stack from the basement, through the kitchen, and on up to the 2nd floor bathrooms.


One tub installed


Knocking off the ends of the flooring to then blow insulation down into the cavity between the exterior wall and interior plaster wall on the 1st floor. I will also install firebreaks between the floors.


Meanwhile, my garden is doing great! I am experimenting with artichokes and some weird pumpkins I found in South America.




This renovation may go from a crawl to an...even slower crawl. My family is getting ready to expand by one in about two months!


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

Your grass needs cutting!


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

A few buddies and I took on a hardwood floor refinishing project. It was done as a sort of a favor. We thought it would be easy....

About 3,000sqft of vinyl laminate, over wood parquet tile, over oak hardwood. Our goal is to remove the top two layers and refinish the oak hardwood.







Whatever was used to glue the parquet wood tile down has probably been banned. It adheres too well.

Most of this stuff requires a hammer and flat bar to chip up.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

There are small jack hammers that work well on removing flooring.
Before dropping insulation in the walls check for depth, there is likely corner angle braces that block the path.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> There are small jack hammers that work well on removing flooring.
> Before dropping insulation in the walls check for depth, there is likely corner angle braces that block the path.


I've thought about trying a small jack hammer or a rotary hammer with a wide chisel, but I'm afraid either will damage the hardwood I'm trying to restore. 

Spud bars and flat bars do some minor damage here and there, but only like 4-5 spots in the 800 or so sqft I've removed so far.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> I've thought about trying a small jack hammer or a rotary hammer with a wide chisel, but I'm afraid either will damage the hardwood I'm trying to restore.
> 
> Spud bars and flat bars do some minor damage here and there, but only like 4-5 spots in the 800 or so sqft I've removed so far.


 It was just a thought without thinking about the floor below.:wink2:


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

This floor side project has turned into a major undertaking.

I have probably 70 hours in it so far.

The tile in the middle of this room just WON'T COME UP. Every square inch is a battle with a hammer and flat bar. 



This room came up much easier for some reason.



Due to the short time line (the floor refinisher starts on Monday), I may not mess with this floor. I pulled up the carpet, and the parquet is in pretty decent shape.



I think long exposure to direct sunlight is a probable cause of the difficulty in the main room. Maybe the sun heated up the tiles, which in turn heated the glue and allowed it to spread and penetrate better. The floors with less sunlight or flooring that was covered by furniture/pool table comes up much easier.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That made me tired just watching y'all, that is not easy work. I just hope the glue holding the top floor down didn't turn the Oak flooring black in spots.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nearly complete.


The frustration is real.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Complete! Probably 200 man hours of labor. I thought it was going to be a 3 or 4 evening job....

Main room


Both archways in the below photo has been framed and french doors added. I removed the doors and framing to open everything up - the entire area looks much larger now.


Last one


Ok - now it's time to complete a nursery a my place and begin running Uponor PEX in the other house I'm restoring.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Floor came out better than I had hoped.


Back at the main project, I am in process of re-wiring the entire house. The kitchen on the main level and the master bedroom and two bathrooms on the 2nd floor are completely gutted. Makes the wiring very easy.

The other bedrooms on the 2nd floor are not gutted - the wall is plaster and lathes. I do not want to gut those rooms and so decided to remove the baseboards and remove a section of the plaster and lathes behind the baseboards. This will allow me to run new wiring and install fireblocks between the 1st and 2nd floor (balloon framing). 

I cleared this with the city code inspector first. He only asked that a metal wiring protector plate is installed to protect the wiring behind the baseboard.


Garden is coming along nicely! Cabbage and Musquee De Provence Pumpkins.




I think the renovation is going to further slow down. The workload at my W2 job is greatly increasing and the wife and I are expecting our first child any day now.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Fisher1871 said:


> Floor came out better than I had hoped.
> 
> .



Wow, amazing.


I really was thinking you guys were nuts....I was dead wrong.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Floors came out really nice. But you might want to invest in a few 1/8" hardboard sheets to put over those floors until you finish up the rest of the house.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

SPS-1 said:


> Floors came out really nice. But you might want to invest in a few 1/8" hardboard sheets to put over those floors until you finish up the rest of the house.


The floor is at a different property from the one I'm renovating - I got distracted with the floor this summer and lost focus at the renovation.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I had a free afternoon and decided to replace the front porch column that had been pushed off center by a tree (since cut down). The tree also provided LOTS of shade and dampness that rotted a good portion of the bottom of the column.



Much to my surprise, the base plate was not a base plate. Just short 2x4s fastened together into a small box with the outside routed. 



I may end up replacing the remaining two columns. 

These will need to weather and dry out a bit before I apply paint. Which is fine - I VERY much doubt I'll get to painting the exterior before winter hits.


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## fleef (May 29, 2015)

*I love it!! And very envious of your Musquee de Provence pumpkins, the last time I ate any of those was in Morocco years ago. They eat a lot of them! I think they were in every dinner time dish. 
*

*Now, this is my opinion- but it is in a lot of other professional opinions too right now, that "opening things up" isn't the best idea. It's fun to do, and seems to look nice at first, but homes right now are moving more toward keeping things closed (like kitchens, formal dining rooms) Or- and this is a new one- enclosing previously "open concept" (can we do away with that idea once & for all from now on?) layouts. Wood is no longer being painted. I know painted wood is in all interior design photos in magazines today, but those photos were taken months ago- it's no longer being done. 
*

*We never thought granite countertops would go out of style! But they sure did- try selling a house in California with those. 
*

*I am so envious of this house- & don't knock you at all for buying sight unseen. Ive done it myself but only a rental- not a buy, but not averse to the idea!*

*VERY good catch- & enjoying your wonderful pictures- thanks for sharing. 
*


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## fleef (May 29, 2015)

BigJim said:


> I like spicy but that is pure pain, not this ole boy.





We SURE it was the peppers in the sauce and not an issue with .. er.. poorly packaged product and/or pathogens in the sauce?? I don't trust those mom & pop jarred things. Never! I'd either A) make my own or B) buy from a nationally known/recognized trusted brand- and yes, I am aware they're just as capable of recalls, e coli, staph and et al.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi Fisher, just looking back to check on your progress and see it has been awhile. Any update? Many here following your progress.

Bud


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Bud9051 said:


> Hi Fisher, just looking back to check on your progress and see it has been awhile. Any update? Many here following your progress.
> 
> Bud


It's progressing - painfully slow!

I'll post some photos in the next few days.

Highlights include
- Completing all drain/sewer lines
- Installing all new Uponor PEX throughout
- Re-wiring house
- Installing two additional front porch columns
- Insulating rooms I gutted (code requirement)
- Installing bathtubs and beginning the tile surround


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks,
Not sure if you have ever heard of the 10% to 90% explanation.

It take 10% of the time to get 90% of the work done and then the remaining 90% of the time to get the last 10% completed. Not exactly, but "painfully slow" says you understand.

Bud


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Gosh... Your adventure looks great.... don't know how I missed it all these years.....

But, for some reason your before pics won't come up on the first post.... maybe the site.... *but I'd love to see them*....

Good going


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Gosh... Your adventure looks great.... don't know how I missed it all these years.....
> 
> But, for some reason your before pics won't come up on the first post.... maybe the site.... *but I'd love to see them*....
> 
> Good going


Ask, and ye shall receive. 

Street View


Front Porch


Master Bedroom


Master Bath (after I removed about 50 twenty five lb boxes of used cat litter)


2nd bedroom


3rd bedroom


Attic (Big stand up attic. This photo is from the stairs looking up)


Garage (You can easily fit three cars in this garage. Or about 20 tons of garbage).


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Every links goes to your whole album.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Every links goes to your whole album.


No idea what the problem is. The photos should be present in the post - no need to click on them to view.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> No idea what the problem is.


 doesn't matter much. anyone can see all your work in one place.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Not seeing any links at all. Or new pictures

Bud


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Bud9051 said:


> Not seeing any links at all. Or new pictures
> 
> Bud



Same here. No pics, no links.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I think it must have something to do with the hosting site. Do they allow linking? Have you set them to public viewing?


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I'll try this again.

Front view from street


Front Porch


Master Bedroom


Bedroom


Attic


Garage


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Place is moving along. Never quick enough. I'm doing almost all the work myself, the only holding cost is property tax.

Time, cost, quality. Pick two. My wife decided this will not be our future home. Our family is growing and she does not want to move in here and then turn around and move again in a year or so. A lot of the original prep was done with this house being our home. If I would have known we were not going to move in, my approach would have been different. Ah well - if I play my cards right I'll have another interesting fix'er'upper thread. 

Prepping to rewire. I removed the baseboards in the 2nd floor. By doing so, I was able to access the space to rewire the 1st floor.


Installed a security storm door I found on Craigslist. Very awesome find. The front door is an odd ball size. A custom ordered door was almost $2,000. I found this for a fraction.


Studs


Closets re-framed from the cock-eyed former mess.


Former Chimney taking up space in bedroom


Fixed


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

The problem with old houses is you never know when things are going to go to ****.

At a different property I'm working on (not the property mainly featured in this thread), it got very ****ty, very fast. 

I got a call that the drains in the kitchen had stuff backing up. This branch serves a kitchen, a bathroom, and a utility room (sink, hot water tank, boiler). The bathroom is at the end of this branch. The branch then ties into the main line the serves the wet stack of bathrooms on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd floor.

When the bathroom and kitchen were upgraded a few years ago (prior to my ownership of the property) I was told the drain lines were replaced. I figured the back up was due to grease or something.

I had the drains hydro-jetted and scoped. Well, the original iron pipes had not been replaced. These pipes were installed in 1929. The bottoms were rotted out and when hydro jetting, gravel and dirt was being blown into the line. 

A replacement was in order. 

Full length of replacement run.


Example of the rotted pipe


New piping




All the debris had to be removed by hand in buckets. The new concrete had to be brought in by 80lbs bags and hand poured.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Dry wall on 2nd floor hung.

Master Bed




Master Bath. This is a very small bathroom, that was originally smaller. I removed a chimney was in the rear left corner. That allowed me to move the the toilet and to put in a full sized tub/shower and a large vanity (you can see the red pex on the right).



2nd bedroom


The 2nd bedroom ceiling required a good bit of repair and floating due to water damage.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

What happened to the pics?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

DoomsDave said:


> What happened to the pics?



Uh-oh.......I see them on my end.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

123pugsy said:


> Uh-oh.......I see them on my end.


In the words of Emily Litella:

_Never mind!_


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## falmboyantpeter (May 24, 2019)

Dang putting a lot of work in good looking house.


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## fleef (May 29, 2015)

_" Well, the original iron pipes had not been replaced. These pipes were installed in 1929."_

Typical lies in real estate. I was told the 1940s home I bought in Utah had all new wiring. Sure it was new.. once. They put in "new wires" of a few inches long, right behind the wall socket plates. Behind that was rag wiring: 1940s wax-paper coated wiring. I found out & had it all replaced when the electrician was called out on emergency appt due to my receiving an electric shock in the SHOWER after I touched the metal grab bar to hang up my washcloth.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

fleef said:


> _" Well, the original iron pipes had not been replaced. These pipes were installed in 1929."_
> 
> Typical lies in real estate. I was told the 1940s home I bought in Utah had all new wiring. Sure it was new.. once. They put in "new wires" of a few inches long, right behind the wall socket plates. Behind that was rag wiring: 1940s wax-paper coated wiring. I found out & had it all replaced when the electrician was called out on emergency appt due to my receiving an electric shock in the SHOWER after I touched the metal grab bar to hang up my washcloth.


Was that verbal only, or in writing? We had some issues with our house and water damage and mold from issues we were verbally told were fixed. Nothing in writing, and nothing insurance would cover, and the supposed contractor was dead.

People say insurance is only there for when you really need it, but what if I really needed it for that $3000 denied claim? All it's there for and good for is total devastation, and even then they'd fight you over fully restoring things to the way they were.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

This is one of the tasks that I would not have undertaken if my wife and I decided we were not going to move into this home earlier. The previous ceiling was just fine. Hopefully yall can view the photos.


Old ceiling gone. New boxes mounted/wired for lights. I had to scab in some 2x2s to the bottom of the ceiling joists to cover a gap between the ceiling joists and siding.


I wanted a decorative design...but I was a bit lazy and wanted to reduce the number of cuts. Another design has the wainscotting panels centered along both the x and y axis, thereby having a full panel run down the center and approx 1/2 panels on either side. 


The (nearly) finished product.


The next several months are going to be dedicated to only outside projects. Painting, garage roof, rear porch, installing a AC unit, etc. Goal is to have all outside work done before weather changes in fall and then finish up the inside stuff.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Nice Job....:smile:


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## lug-nuts (Jun 17, 2019)

WOW, thats dedication. I salute you.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

The last few outside jobs are being buttoned up before winter really sets in again.

I had hoped to get all outside work completed this past summer, but I didn't have the time. Additionally, I struggled to make a decision concerning the garage.

The garage




This garage is attached to the house. The kitchen door/porch is integrated into the flat roof on the garage. 

I started with the kitchen porch. The porch roof was cockeyed and everything below the porch box beam was rotten.

Demo




The flat garage roof presented challenges. In order to meet code, I need to install three new more robust steel I-beams or install engineered wood I-joists. Due to the amount of rot, almost no part of the current roof was salvageable. 






It was going to be $25k+ all in - and that's IF I worked fast enough for a local roof to install new EPDM roofing before winter hit.

After much contemplation, I am going to detach the garage from the house. This weekend I will install 6x6 posts to support kitchen porch roof and build a new wood porch for the kitchen door. 

The detached garage will eventually be converted into a mother-in-law suite with a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I hadn't realized that was the same house we have been watching you fix up.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

It's been a lodestone, no question. The experience is invaluable though.


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Fisher1871 said:


> The detached garage will eventually be converted into a mother-in-law suite with a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment.



Mother in-law suites should be built at least 2 states away. :wink2:


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

My first foray into deck framing and large posts. 

I'm not completely happy with how it turned out, definitely due to my inexperience in planning. Plus it's an old home and I'm working around a lot of poorly thought out projects from the last 100 years. Once I was committed, I was committed and wanted things done in a timely, and more importantly, SAFE manner.

Original deck/deck roof.


As one can see, there is a pretty substantial sag on the right hand side. It was about 6 inches or so lower from left to right.

I'm removing the garage entirely. There were so many things wrong, I couldn't see a way to tie everything back in. Now that I have the deck roof posts installed, I'll remove the rest of the old joists, remove the steel I-beams, and knock down the block walls.


When I (re)build the garage I'll work with a clean canvas.



New 6x6s installed. Again, not perfect and I would do some things differently. Also, while it doesn't seem that high - it sure felt that way when I was trying to manage a 16 foot 6x6 (~170lbs) from 16 feet or so in the air.


The photo or maybe the angle of the garage roof line makes it look like the 6x6s are a bit out of plumb, but I checked and rechecked. They are in.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Is there enough to lag the ledger to or can you thru bolt to the rim?


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> Is there enough to lag the ledger to or can you thru bolt to the rim?


I'm going to remove the old shiplap siding (I think that's the correct term). Flash it and attach the ledger using lags to the balloon framing. There is no rim board (again, I think that's the correct terminology) behind the shiplap, just the 2x4 framing on top of a sill plate.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> I'm going to remove the old shiplap siding (I think that's the correct term). Flash it and attach the ledger using lags to the balloon framing. There is no rim board (again, I think that's the correct terminology) behind the shiplap, just the 2x4 framing on top of a sill plate.


But the joists land on the steel beam?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

so when you don't have a ledger you can trust you line up the joists with the joists inside so you can add a few of these. They tie into the joists inside.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I have tried to answer as many questions as I can with pictures.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

stringers are cut out of 2x10, we often put a painted 2x12 outside that to make it look finished.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> I have tried to answer as many questions as I can with pictures.


I'm going to have to digest this a bit further. I think I get it - and I like it! Thank you again!


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## Chickenbrowncow (Oct 27, 2019)

Those refurbished hardwood floors are amazing ... still wanting to do mine soon


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

In old homes, the main level typically had oak hardwood flooring. The 2nd floor+ would be finished with pine. At least that is what I've read. Reason being, guests would be entertained on the main floor and never see the 2nd floor.

In this home, the 2nd floor is pine - with no subfloor. I forgot to take a 'before' photo. The pine flooring was in extremely poor condition. For various reasons, I've decided not to restore or replace the flooring in the bedrooms or bathrooms. 

However, I will replace the 2nd floor landing/hall pine flooring with red oak. In addition, there is no hvac return on the 2nd floor. Supplies where installed back in the 70s - but in the wrong area (towards the center of the home). I've relocated all the supplies to be located next to exterior walls and added a return in the 2nd floor hall. It's not the best location, but it's what I have to work with.

Pine flooring removed, air return pan framed, and additional framing for various support purposes. To the left, inside one of the bedrooms, you can see a hole in the floor. That is how I moved/installed the metal hvac supply ducts.



Better angle of the pan. The 2x4 that is bisecting the pan is the support for the metal grate that will be installed in the floor for the return.


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## DallasCowboys (Jan 30, 2017)

fleef said:


> *
> 
> We never thought granite countertops would go out of style! But they sure did- try selling a house in California with those.
> *


*


I know this thread is 18 months old, but if granite countertops have lost their popularity, what are they using now?*


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

DallasCowboys said:


> I know this thread is 18 months old, but if granite countertops have lost their popularity, what are they using now?


Seems weird to me. I work for a stone countertop supplier, and we do a fairly even mix of (primarily) granite and quartz. 

Granite - natural stone, is a very hard surface, but does not have great tensile strength as it is subject to natural cracks/fissures that are not easily detectable. Therefore it needs more support for any overhangs larger than 10". Many colors are still quite popular for their price point.

Quartz is the current popular surface, probably partly because the patterns and color choices abound, and most manufacturers have now achieved the same quality as Cambria, which is considered the originator of this surface type. Another factor is all the HGTV shows mentioning it on a daily basis to make your old "space" look like a new "spacious" "space" that has more "space" for "spacey" people. Quartz is considered man made, as it generally is about 97% ground stone powder held together with resins/epoxies. There is usually very good quality control. It can have self supporting overhangs of up to 15" depending on cabinetry layout.

Marble, quartzite, soapstone, and many other natural stone materials would have some of the same tensile strength issues as granite, and can be quite soft and prone to scratching.

Corian and other acrylic solid surfaces are widely used in commercial applications (hotels, casinos) around here, not as much in residential in the last 20-30 years as the fad seems to have peaked long ago.

Laminate is not in at all except for the lowest budget jobs.

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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

We're starting to shop new countertops and are only really looking at quartz. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I tested the quartz before buying. I took home the shop's Cambria sample, poured red wine on one area, balsamic vinegar on another area, and vegetable oil on another spot. Waited a few days. Wiped it all off - didn't leave a trace. I dare you to try that on your granite.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

SPS-1 said:


> I tested the quartz before buying. I took home the shop's Cambria sample, poured red wine on one area, balsamic vinegar on another area, and vegetable oil on another spot. Waited a few days. Wiped it all off - didn't leave a trace. I dare you to try that on your granite.


It's usually not an issue on "sealed" granite. However granite does require care and resealing that quartz does not, as quartz is much less porous. The finish on quartz can still dull and the pigment can discolor. Hot pans should not be set directly on the counter for this reason. We have some colors that show mustard stains that can only be removed with silver cream and a magic eraser, so to say quartz (even name brand Cambria) doesn't stain is generalizing.

http://lakesidesurfaces.com/care is a link to our cleaning and care tips and approved household cleaning products in case anyone wants a good comparison of available surfaces.

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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I've done a lot of reading on the subject and have never heard of any reputable source saying you can put a screaming hot pan on any store surface, man-made or otherwise. 

Not to say people don't do it, but there's always the chance for a crack.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

NickTheGreat said:


> I've done a lot of reading on the subject and have never heard of any reputable source saying you can put a screaming hot pan on any store surface, man-made or otherwise.
> 
> Not to say people don't do it, but there's always the chance for a crack.


Actually, porcelain countertops are not susceptible to nearly the same forces of expansion/contraction and discoloration of binders, etc. as stone products. My workplace deals with two or more manufacturers of porcelain surfaces that are approved to have integrated cooktops with the burner holes cut right into the surface (in custom layouts, etc.) With the controls below in the cabinetry. Granted there will have to be insulators around the burners which would prevent chipping, but heat and the pan's proximity to the surface are not issues. I'm sure there are also extra considerations to think about with prepping the cabinets below as well.

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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

NickTheGreat said:


> I've done a lot of reading on the subject and have never heard of any reputable source saying you can put a screaming hot pan on any store surface, man-made or otherwise.
> 
> Not to say people don't do it, but there's always the chance for a crack.


https://deavita.net/glass-countertop-awesome-designs.html


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## DallasCowboys (Jan 30, 2017)

badtheba said:


> Seems weird to me. I work for a stone countertop supplier, and we do a fairly even mix of (primarily) granite and quartz.
> 
> 
> Marble, quartzite, soapstone, and many other natural stone materials would have some of the same tensile strength issues as granite, and can be quite soft and prone to scratching.
> ...


How popular is the waterfall effect of marble? This is where they take a long piece of marble, cut it, and use the shorter piece to run down the side of the cabinet with the appearance of a continuous grain. It looks like a water fall. It does look nice...

Laminate is what they use in most of the entry level homes in the Dallas area.


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

DallasCowboys said:


> How popular is the waterfall effect of marble? This is where they take a long piece of marble, cut it, and use the shorter piece to run down the side of the cabinet with the appearance of a continuous grain. It looks like a water fall. It does look nice...
> 
> Laminate is what they use in most of the entry level homes in the Dallas area.


We do waterfall panels with all of our surfaces, not just marble. Most of the time we can get grain lines to match, but not always, depending on the pattern. It's pretty popular with those that can afford it.

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## DallasCowboys (Jan 30, 2017)

badtheba said:


> We do waterfall panels with all of our surfaces, not just marble. Most of the time we can get grain lines to match, but not always, depending on the pattern. It's pretty popular with those that can afford it.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk


Why would it be significantly more money?
I thought that you just found a piece of marble or granite that was as long as needed, cut it, and line up the grain.

Do you ever cut the marble, take it to their home and think.....uh oh, we cut it 1/4 inch too short? What do you do then? Install the marble and run out of the house before they notice it?

:vs_laugh:


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Drifting on the op's thread. Plenty of room for a new thread, IMO.

Bud


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## badtheba (Jul 3, 2011)

DallasCowboys said:


> Why would it be significantly more money?
> 
> I thought that you just found a piece of marble or granite that was as long as needed, cut it, and line up the grain.
> 
> ...


It's significantly more money because of the mitering/seaming process and on site labor. Our templates are done digitally with a laser, and tops are cut on a CNC. Waterfall panels are typically made 1-2" long and cut on site, leaving a raw unfinished edge contacting the floor.

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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I've been skipping around to different projects the last few weeks.

Yesterday I was able to spend some time on the 2nd floor hallway hardwood floor and hvac return.

Old hardwood flooring removed.


Framed a box for the return and panned it. There was not a return on the 2nd floor when I began this project. While this return is not perfect, it will provide some air movement.



There is no subfloor and I can not add a subfloor - the hallway floor would not be level with bedroom floors. I would also need to rework the top step of the stairway. The new hardwood was laid out first to reduce waste. I needed each piece to end on a joist and to retain the tongue/groove on edges and butts.


As you can see in the photo above, I made a bit of a mistake. Originally I planned on installing the hardwood without running pieces across the return opening. After several rows of hardwood, I realized that even a slight difference in width would cause the hardwood to not match up on the right hand side of the return opening. I tested a piece - and there was about 1/8th in gap.

I was able to fix this without much trouble and continued on. Mistakenly, I did not take a photo of the floor prior to cutting out the return opening. Here is the opening with the majority of the wood removed.


Finished product.


I still need to sand and poly the new flooring - as well as install some shimes to get the cast iron grate flush with the hardwood flooring.


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

I thought I was going to have soooo much time to work on this place during quarantine/lockdown/etc.

Well - that was not the case. I did make lots of progress. Organizing photos etc now. Hopefully will have several posts soon!


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> I have tried to answer as many questions as I can with pictures.


Hi Neal,

I was looking at this again - particularly the doubled beam notched into the 6x6s. 

Is it good practice to notch into the 6x6 to a depth of 3" for the doubled 2x10 beam? That only leaves 2.5" of meat at the 6x6. 

I went it a different way. Code recently stopped by and asked that I change it.



Lots of work done. Need some time to upload photos and bring this thread up to date.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

We never notch, we just set the deck joists in top the beam and fill the space up to the decking with blocks and add another post for the roof. Then we tie it all together with a metal strap. 
If you filled the notch with the joists, I don't see a problem.
What was his complaint?


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## Fisher1871 (Oct 12, 2016)

Nealtw said:


> We never notch, we just set the deck joists in top the beam and fill the space up to the decking with blocks and add another post for the roof. Then we tie it all together with a metal strap.
> If you filled the notch with the joists, I don't see a problem.
> What was his complaint?


Hi Neal,

The 6x6s run from the ground up to the box beam of the porch roof. One is approx 15 feet tall, the other is 12 or so. The existing horizontal beams (the lower beam in photo) are what the joists set on. There is a beam on the 'outside' of the 6x6 and house side of the 6x6, attached to the 6x6 by two carriage bolts (per side).

Photo of the existing beams


The requirement is to remove the existing beams on the outside and house side, then notch a double 2x10 into the 6x6 on the house side (along with using carriage bolts). The deck joists set on the notched in 2x10s. To me, it just seems like too much of the 6x6 is being removed.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Fisher1871 said:


> Hi Neal,
> 
> The 6x6s run from the ground up to the box beam of the porch roof. One is approx 15 feet tall, the other is 12 or so. The existing horizontal beams (the lower beam in photo) are what the joists set on. There is a beam on the 'outside' of the 6x6 and house side of the 6x6, attached to the 6x6 by two carriage bolts (per side).
> 
> ...


Just a pain to do it now.
Ask them if they would approve a new double in the center with hangers


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