# Lowe's gave me bad advice! Now how to fix???



## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

I stenciled my patio concrete with exterior flat Ben Moore paint. It came out amazing after many hours of blood, sweat, and tears. I went to Lowes's to purchase a sealer to protect my artwork. They sold me H&C Concrete and Driveway Protector and some shark sand to give it some grit to prevent slips. I was looking for something more matte than glossy. Well I applied this product and it is not the result I wanted. After 3 days it is greasy, tacky, and slick. This is clearly not right. I called H&C and they advised me to mop with a degreaser or Simple Green. They also emailed me and told me my best hope is to strip it with Soy Gel . I refuse to strip it and lose my stenciling! I mopped it several times tonight with Simple Green and so far nothing.........except some spots of lost paint. Please advise me how to get this protector off enough so that I can seal it properly. And what product should I use to seal it? I have faith it can be fixed! (Photo pre-sealant)


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Exactly which type of paint did you use?
Reguler house paint is just never going to hold up on concrete.


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

It was Benjamin Moore Ben exterior flat. I was limited to what paints I could use for the stenciling. It's precisely why I want to seal it to protect it.

The concrete was painted when it was built about 1 year ago and didn't have any issues with the paint not holding up yet.


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## jeasy (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm thinking isn't anything that will strip the sealer but not the paint.

what about just going over everything with a different product that has a matte finish?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Wow---that looks great------It's to late now, but the Benjamin Moore dealer would have had a better chance of advising you correctly------

Fine looking work----just wonderful----


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

Is there a proper sealant out there that I could just apply over this? I really am very angry at Lowe's for selecting the wrong product. I would rather a salesperson say " I'm not sure" than ruin all my hard work.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I suggest you go to the Benjamin Moore dealer and ask ---those folks have saved my hide on several occasions----bring pictures---and a sample board if you have one---you may want to brush on some of the bad sealer,too.

this way they can experiment--


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## sam floor (Jun 27, 2009)

Lowes gave you bad advice?....you and a million other people.:whistling2:


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Mel6626 said:


> Is there a proper sealant out there that I could just apply over this?


Polyurethane will help but NOTHING will do what you want.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

The problem is that concrete sealers are designed to soak into the concrete. You paint has already sealed the concrete service, so the sealer cannot penetrate. That's the reason the sealer is not drying. I'm afraid it's going to have to be removed. You are probably going to end up using something other than concrete sealer because of the paint.


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## bigchaz (Jun 28, 2006)

Putting more sealer on top is going to increase risk of product failure, you don't have any concrete for it to bond to anymore or soak into. If the previous sealer isnt cured the new sealer will be basically filmed on top which is not how it is meant to work


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm going to try to keep mopping it in hopes that it returns to the previous state after I painted it. Looks like I will return to Ace Hardware to find something that I could possibly seal it with to protect it, barring the tackiness comes off. H&C claim the protector is just (semi)dried on top since the paint prevented it from absorbing (so they say) and this gives me hope with some elbow grease I can get it off.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Whatever you do do not use poly as suggested!


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## jeasy (Dec 7, 2009)

joecaption said:


> Whatever you do do not use poly as suggested!


yea polyurethane would get yellowed by the sun.

maybe polycrylic though?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The UV will cause any poly to fail.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

It's flat paint with shark sand...it may be absorbent enough for sealer. The paint label should have said what to use over it. Anyway, I would have let the paint dry a good long time, then seal it if appropriate, then let the sealant dry a good long time before trying to fix it. Some adhesives and probably some coatings could take months to harden under poor conditions. I'd leave it alone for a while. Just keep it clean and dry if possible...but I'm not a pro and I'm out numbered here.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

If and I said IF, you can get the crap off without ruining the paint job, this should work

http://www.rainguard.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=101:clear-seal-urethane&Itemid=79


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## Davejss (May 14, 2012)

You asked an $8 an hour clerk for advice......


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

What does the sealer say the dry time is supposed to be? Maybe you're not waiting long enough?

Also, the paint work looks great! Got any pictures with the failed sealer on it?


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice. I have been mopping it every night with Simple Green and Dawn. So far it is slowly removing the stickiness. I have scoured a bunch of paint off, but that I can fix easily. The manufacturer H&C responded back again and confirmed that degreaser and elbow grease should eventually remove it. They further suggested these products to seal it:



H&C Concrete Sealer Wet Look
http://www.hcconcrete.com/products/clear-sealers/concrete-wet-look/index.jsp

H&C Concrete Stain Solid Color Water-based
http://www.hcconcrete.com/products/solid-color-stains/water-based-stain/index.jsp


Any thoughts if this is appropriate?:sweatdrop:


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Anytime you *SEAL *concrete it's a crapshoot. My local SW store manager applied an epoxy to an outdoor patio.......It looked awesome........for about 6 months. Concrete, even older concrete, has moisture migrating from underneath to the surface......it is not a lot of moisture, but, it is moisture. Anyway, long story short, the top portion of his patio just started POPPING, I mean chunks began to pop off because the moisture got trapped between the top of the concrete and the epoxy coating. Not saying this is exactly like your case, but, do your homework & make sure you don't seal in unwanted moisture.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Not only that (above) but concrete has a major pH-associated problem with it that only certain paints can handle; you say "BM exterior flat"...that says nothing to me - apart from a paint that isn't designed for concrete applications. See, concrete is *very* alkaline and needs a paint that will withstand that attack from within.

But you saw paint there before and just assumed more paint would do now; wrong. Then you went ahead and concocted some scheme to paint and seal concrete. Wrong again. Then you went to Ace or Lowes or soemwhere and put your trust in them to settle your sealant nightmare. Wrong again. Then you asked the manufacturer...well that was the closest thing to a right idea you've had all along; trouble is now you're throwing good money after bad. Sure they'll sell you something - but whether or not that something will apply/solve your situation isn't their concern. 

IMO it was a bad idea from the start. But too late for advice now; so sit back and blame the world for your problem, but don't come here for 'how-to-fix-it" advice for free. LOL
:wink:


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

Ccarlisle- while I understand your position, I don't quite agree. If this is not a forum to get free advice- then what is it? Don't persecute me for coming to get advice as this is the exact purpose of this, no?

My concrete was previously painted by the builder 1 year ago. I bought a stencil and Benjamin Moore was the recommended paint by the stencil manufacturer based on consistency. When going to a home improvement store and asking questions from not a cashier, but a person specializing in that department I HAD a reasonable expectation that they knew a little more than myself in that particular subject. I am not a professional so I HAVE to rely on information from others about home improvements. I have to trust that they are steering me in the right direction. Clearly this backfired. 

Maybe painting my patio WAS a bad idea. But guess what? It's my problem to deal with. I can accept that responsibility. But I'm just trying to salvage my hard work. If you don't don't want to help people, which is the premise of this forum I presumed, then don't chastise me for my mistakes. And by all means don't spend your time replying to my self-induced problem. :wink:


Again, thank you to all the helpful advice I have received from here. I truly appreciate it. While maybe it's too late to do things the proper way, I may still end up with a comparable result if I'm lucky thanks to all of you.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

I tell it as I see it - and I don't apologize for that. Truth hurts sometimes.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

The easy way or the hard way, it's a learning process one way or another. I've done my share of both and still counting. Good luck with how your concrete turns out. I'd be curious to know what it looks like when you've finished.


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

I will update once I have something meaningful. I'm still in the process of degreasing. Trying Super Clean degreaser now. I called Rain Guard and got some advice from them. They were super helpful and recommend their waterproof product once it get the other product removed. Also explained why the other product failed. I am going to wait several days after the last mop before I "seal" it. I tried to take pics of the floor in its current state but it looks normal because the product left behind still has settled into crevices. So not much point just yet. My persistence will pay off and I will post pics


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## DannyT (Mar 23, 2011)

never ask or listen to advice from amyone in a blue or orange apron. if you haven't noticed the cashiers in those stores are also the specialists that you will find in the various departments. its a learning process and i am sorry you had to find out the hard way, but i am sure you won't make the same mistake again. good luck with fixing it, hope you don't have to repaint the whole thing.


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## jcrack_corn (Jun 21, 2008)

richard



ccarlisle said:


> Not only that (above) but concrete has a major pH-associated problem with it that only certain paints can handle; you say "BM exterior flat"...that says nothing to me - apart from a paint that isn't designed for concrete applications. See, concrete is *very* alkaline and needs a paint that will withstand that attack from within.
> 
> But you saw paint there before and just assumed more paint would do now; wrong. Then you went ahead and concocted some scheme to paint and seal concrete. Wrong again. Then you went to Ace or Lowes or soemwhere and put your trust in them to settle your sealant nightmare. Wrong again. Then you asked the manufacturer...well that was the closest thing to a right idea you've had all along; trouble is now you're throwing good money after bad. Sure they'll sell you something - but whether or not that something will apply/solve your situation isn't their concern.
> 
> ...


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

Yikes, sounds like someone is mid-winter cranky 

Mel is doing noble work here, scouting ahead of the pack to find one more way not to do something, signaling back "Don't come THIS way fergawdssake!!" :laughing:


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Oh great another pissing contest. I thought our thing here was to help someone who made a mistake or asked a question, not nail them to a cross. I really can't figure out why so many come here and never return. I realize there are going to be different opinions-and remember opinions are like rear ends everybody has one and most of them stink-and different ways to do things that's part of it. Give it your best shot then let the poster pick whice one they think will work for him or her.
And don't come here for advice for free??? what the hell is this forum for?


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

ccarlisle said:


> Not only that (above) but concrete has a major pH-associated problem with it that only certain paints can handle; you say "BM exterior flat"...that says nothing to me - apart from a paint that isn't designed for concrete applications. See, concrete is *very* alkaline and needs a paint that will withstand that attack from within.
> 
> But you saw paint there before and just assumed more paint would do now; wrong. Then you went ahead and concocted some scheme to paint and seal concrete. Wrong again. Then you went to Ace or Lowes or soemwhere and put your trust in them to settle your sealant nightmare. Wrong again. Then you asked the manufacturer...well that was the closest thing to a right idea you've had all along; trouble is now you're throwing good money after bad. Sure they'll sell you something - but whether or not that something will apply/solve your situation isn't their concern.
> 
> ...


That's pretty rude. Hasn't momma ever told you that if you don't have anything good to say, to not say anything?


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## Hardway (Dec 28, 2011)

Nice dog and nice paint job anyway!


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Looks great. Should have came here before going to lowes.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Mel6626 said:


> I will update once I have something meaningful. I'm still in the process of degreasing. Trying Super Clean degreaser now. I called Rain Guard and got some advice from them. They were super helpful and recommend their waterproof product once it get the other product removed. Also explained why the other product failed. I am going to wait several days after the last mop before I "seal" it. I tried to take pics of the floor in its current state but it looks normal because the product left behind still has settled into crevices. So not much point just yet. My persistence will pay off and I will post pics


It looks nice but it was a lot of work based on wishful thinking. You really need a clear protector that won't screw up the paint job. I think epoxy would have been best but paint needs to adhere to the substrate, whatever it is. I'm not sure what you used, was it waterbased?

It's hard to accept but sometimes you are just better off redoing a project instead of trying to make it work. Bear in mind that these sales people often are as informed as the guy flipping your burger. You need to find out specifically what their waterproof product is designed to adhere to.


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

*Update 3/7/13*

Ok. So I've gotten 90% of the old protector off the floor and touched up the paint that I scrubbed off. I called RainGuard before buying anymore products and they recommended their waterproofing product. I explained in detail all that's been done. Well...... I did a test spot 2 days ago. It's tacky just like the previous protector. Going to call RainGuard back ( and return waterproofer). Back to square 1. Not giving up yet. Thanks guys for the input. Updates to follow.


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Just a reminder:



Dorado said:


> ...let the sealant dry a good long time before trying to fix it. Some adhesives and probably some coatings could take months to harden under poor conditions. I'd leave it alone for a while. Just keep it clean and dry if possible...


I painted the stand for the keyboard I'm typing on now and it took about a week before the keyboard stopped sticking to it even after it felt dry to the touch. And I painted it under perfect, indoor conditions.

Read some of these results for the search term _"take months to cure" paint_. You don't even have to click any of them...the information is all within the snippets.

And now that you had all kinds of solvents soaking into it before it fully cured/dried, it will probably take even longer.


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## sam floor (Jun 27, 2009)

The big box stores.

"Where you go for advice, when you want to do the job twice."

Do you think they will use this slogan?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Do a spot test, and let it sit for a week.


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## smithk101 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Consult a professional*

Sometimes we just need to hire a professional to get the job done right. I had a similar project and there is a cool new sight that can help you get quotes for the work.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Mel6626 said:


> Ok. So I've gotten 90% of the old protector off the floor and touched up the paint that I scrubbed off. I called RainGuard before buying anymore products and they recommended their waterproofing product. I explained in detail all that's been done. Well...... I did a test spot 2 days ago. It's tacky just like the previous protector. Going to call RainGuard back ( and return waterproofer). Back to square 1. Not giving up yet. Thanks guys for the input. Updates to follow.


 My five dollars worth of advice. "the two cents adjusted for inflation" The paint already sealed it. Go to Benjamin Moore and talk with them it is BM product. quit going to other companies and asking for products that may or may not work with their paints. Now for the real fun part I got to ask. Does that patio have a vapor barrier under it? Or is the cement just poured on the earth under it? The reason why is moisture is going to creep up and blister your paint job, even if you seal it from above. Just saying.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh and getting advice here. Is sometimes Just as bad if not worse then getting it from lowe's or home depot.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nailbags said:


> Oh and getting advice here. Is sometimes Just as bad if not worse then getting it from lowe's or home depot.


But why would you continue to go where bad advise is given?


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## Dorado (Feb 7, 2013)

Nailbags said:


> Go to Benjamin Moore and talk with them it is BM product. quit going to other companies and asking for products that may or may not work with their paints.


Yes! And don't try the same type coating again and expect faster results. If both cans said something like "latex concrete sealant" you should have expected the same result even if Benjamin Moore told you to use it.

Maybe you can perform an experiment so to see whether it's hardening more every day (which it is). Buy a brick and coat it. After the second day of drying, hold it in the air and press a wooden board against it. Cut the board a little until it's light enough to barely stick to the brick for at least a second without falling. Do the same thing with that same cut board a day or two later and I bet you'll find it will fall because the brick became less tacky.


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## JasperST (Sep 7, 2012)

Another thought, and it may have been addressed already, what temperature are you having out there? Are you sure it's in the curing range of the product?


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## retired guy 60 (Jun 23, 2009)

Both temperature and humidity can affect drying time. Did you contact customer relations of the manufacturer of the concrete sealer and ask for assistance? Could be something that others have not considered such as a bad batch of product or a can that is outdated or one that was left in someones garage in freezing temps before returned to the store. Unlikely? Yes, but can't be ruled out.
By the way, beautiful job. But unless coated with something more durable than sealer, very likely to show signs of wear in no time. Floors really take a beating. That's why epoxy is often suggested for concrete. Just my 2 cents.


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## Mel6626 (Feb 26, 2013)

*Final update. 3/14/13*

I just wanted to update all you guys that helped me. I was finally able to remove about 90% of the H&C protector. I then spoke with Claude over at Rain Guard. I applied the Rain Guard waterproofer ($8!)in a step by step process to prevent one gigantic mistake like last time. It went on well but like other had said, I question it's durability and protection. I can see its physically adhered to the paint differently than the previous product after mopping it. But it will have to do for now. I know it won't last long term, but at least I'm done for now and it buys me time to find a superior product. I will pass this knowledge on to the stencil company so they can let other customers learn through my trials and tribulations. Thanks again for all the input!!!!! I am already enjoying my lanai in sunny Florida!


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I gotta tell ya that looks great.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I completely agree. That looks awesome. Congrats on getting it sorted out, and glad it worked out for the better.


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