# A roux discussion



## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I want to learn and it is not my intention to step on anyone's toes but a part of learning is expressing an opinion.

I mention the above because I know Cajun cooking gurus are passinate about their roux.

Made a Cajun meatball stew recipe the other day and it was very good. Made the dark roux from scratch. I actually liked the flavor better before I added the Tabasco.

But my comment is I only detected minor flavor differences between a gravy made with corn starch and a cap full of Kitchen Bouquet vs. the one with all the added fat of the roux mixture. So minor I don't consider the effort, time and extra fat calories of the roux to be worth the effort. It is nice to know how to do for post apocalypse cooking and I realize it was the only way 200-300 years ago but in a modern world is it the right choice?

I got my fire suit on so go ahead.


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## wooleybooger (Feb 23, 2019)

Well if you've made a dark roux then you probably realized the cooking can be stopped any time after the raw flour taste is gone giving you multiple choices of roux color depending on the end use, that is what protein is in the dish.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

wooleybooger said:


> Well if you've made a dark roux then you probably realized the cooking can be stopped any time after the raw flour taste is gone giving you multiple choices of roux color depending on the end use, that is what protein is in the dish.


I do and this recipe called for dark. We often make the light or blonde for making white sauces or cheese sauce.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Yeah, different dishes may require a different darkness of the roux, which will give the roux a different flavor (up to and including "burnt). Also, you can use different fats, which also gives it different flavors.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Corn starch produces a shiny result while a flour roux does not. For example I would use a roux for turkey gravy but cornstarch to thicken slightly bean green liquid.
Something you may want to consider is making a slurry with flour and a liquid like water or chicken stock. No fat needed.
Just shake up AP flour with the liquid in a small jar and whisk into the boiling liquid. It works very well. No lumps either. But you must shake it real well.


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

J. V. said:


> Something you may want to consider is making a slurry with flour and a liquid like water or chicken stock. No fat needed.
> Just shake up AP flour with the liquid in a small jar and whisk into the boiling liquid. It works very well. No lumps either. But you must shake it real well.


Gotta try this! Do you add the slurry all at once to the boiling liquid? Or gradually?


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

I was making gravy with flour and fat from whatever meat was cooking for decades before I'd even heard the word roux. I always found it much better than using corn starch, which of course is "cheating."

I will, however, use Kitchen Bouquet or Gravy Master for coloring. If I'm making gravy or thickening a stew, I'm generally too pressed for time to fuss with browning it naturally. For these things, that's not the primary flavor anyway. Admittedly, I never really make Cajun dishes, so I have to defer to the experts there.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

CaptTom said:


> I was making gravy with flour and fat from whatever meat was cooking for decades before I'd even heard the word roux. I always found it much better than using corn starch, which of course is "cheating."


Absolutely the best way to make it.

But in my recent case frozen meatballs have no fat or hot pan to go with that process.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Colbyt said:


> But in my recent case frozen meatballs have no fat or hot pan to go with that process.


Use butter. Or if you're after a home-style Southern vibe, use lard. Although of course any real, self-respecting home cook saves the drained fat from bacon, hamburger or whatever, so that is always available to make gravy or roux.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

snic said:


> Gotta try this! Do you add the slurry all at once to the boiling liquid? Or gradually?


Gradually. Add some slurry, whisk and allow the liquid to return to boiling a little at a time. It will not reach full thickening until the liquid returns to a boil. You will need to continue adding the slurry a little at a time until the its the way you want it.
It works very well and I'm not sure why I don't do this more often.



CaptTom said:


> Use butter. Or if you're after a home-style Southern vibe, use lard. Although of course any real, self-respecting home cook saves the drained fat from bacon, hamburger or whatever, so that is always available to make gravy or roux.


When I make roasted turkey I use a fat separator for the drippings. I use the turkey fat for the roux and the remaining drippings get used for the gravy. I always make a turkey stock ahead of time at Thanksgiving for the gravy and to moisten the stuffing. 
I have a container in my fridge that holds bacon grease. I also have a tub of lard in there. And butter. Salted and un-salted.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Just kidding.


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## Calikins (9 mo ago)

J. V. said:


> Corn starch produces a shiny result while a flour roux does not. For example I would use a roux for turkey gravy but cornstarch to thicken slightly bean green liquid.
> Something you may want to consider is making a slurry with flour and a liquid like water or chicken stock. No fat needed.
> Just shake up AP flour with the liquid in a small jar and whisk into the boiling liquid. It works very well. No lumps either. But you must shake it real well.


It really helps if the liquid is cold to start 
10 years of fine dining restaurant experience


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Calikins said:


> It really helps if the liquid is cold to start
> 10 years of fine dining restaurant experience


If you mean the thickening liquid I have not found that to be true. I have been told this many times. Have seen and heard chefs recommend doing this. I have used ice cold water from the fridge and room temperature water form the tap and see no noticeable difference.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Flour/cornstarch clumps less with cold water.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

huesmann said:


> Flour/cornstarch clumps less with cold water.


My Food Science classes devoted a lot of time to cornstarch. Apparently, the science behind how it works is remarkable.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Oobleck - The Cornstarch And Water Experiment - ScienceBob.com


Explore the cornstarch and water experiment for yourself and discover all the fun you can have with Non-Newtonian substances!




sciencebob.com





Scroll down to the science. . .unless you want to play.
This seems like something @mathmonger might do with his kids!


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

What, you never made oobleck? I thought that was mandatory for all kindergarteners. I think we still have some corn starch stains ingrained on our kitchen table...


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

snic said:


> What, you never made oobleck? I thought that was mandatory for all kindergarteners. I think we still have some corn starch stains ingrained on our kitchen table...


Ooblek, Pud and there are a lot of names for it, is a non-Newtonian fluid. And is probably the easiest one to make. Silly Putty is another one. You can poke your finger into it slowly and it goes through it. Hit it quick with the palm of your hand and it turns into a solid. Use a hammer and in the case of Silly Putty, it will shatter. But, let it warm in the palm of your hand, you can form it back into a ball. 

It is some amazing stuff. And a lot of fun to play with it. 

If you are lucky enough, and have enough space, you can even make a long runway where you can run on it. Or, in my case, trudge through it.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

huesmann said:


> Yeah, different dishes may require a different darkness of the roux, which will give the roux a different flavor (up to and including "burnt). Also, you can use different fats, which also gives it different flavors.


One thing to keep in mind, the darker the roux, the less it thickens. The lighter the roux, the more it thickens. 

If you want to make a dark roux quick, and I have never tried it, heat up your fat, oil works better in this case, almost to the smoking point. Then, in an enameled cast iron pot, filled with the correct amount of flour, slowly pour in the hot oil while you have someone stir the mixture the resulting mixture. Because the oil is smokin' hot, you will quickly have a dark roux. 

I saw this on a cajun cooking show a long time ago.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

CaptTom said:


> I was making gravy with flour and fat from whatever meat was cooking for decades before I'd even heard the word roux. I always found it much better than using corn starch, which of course is "cheating."
> 
> I will, however, use Kitchen Bouquet or Gravy Master for coloring. If I'm making gravy or thickening a stew, I'm generally too pressed for time to fuss with browning it naturally. For these things, that's not the primary flavor anyway. Admittedly, I never really make Cajun dishes, so I have to defer to the experts there.


I made the worst gravy possible for longest time. I tried making a roux, a slurry, using cornstarch, and a host of other methods. All to no aval. 

Then I stumbled on the key. Wondra Flour. It is wheat flour that has been pre-cooked and dried and finely ground. Because it is cooked, it doesn't take long to cook out any remaining raw flour taste. Also, since it is finely ground, it is quick to mix with the fat. 

When I cook a roast, I use the fat from that to make a roux. Otherwise I use butter as I like the flavor. 1 tbls. butter to 1 tbls Wondra. The same as you would with any roux. 

I have been using Wondra for almost 2 decades and I have not had any clumps. 

Regarding Kitchen Bouquet and Gravy Master, I can't comment on those as I have never used them. 

I use either drippings from the meat, or if there aren't any, I use canned broth or stock. And, if it needs any more flavor boost, I use a product called Better Than Bouillon. It has a lot less sodium than other similar products but a lot more flavor. The first ingredient listed is the meat the product represents. And of course herbs, spices, salt and pepper. 

I do use corn starch for some things, like oriental dishes. Where it makes sense. 

Just recently, I have learned of a new flour thickening method from Chef John off of You Tube. It only works when you have a lot of liquid in the mixture, like a soup, pot roast, stew, etc.. Using a fine mesh colander, a whisk, and some four, you submerge the colander into the liquid in the pan and dump in the flour. Then, whisk with all your might to incorporate the flour into the liquid. If you need to make it thicker, repeat. 

I have never tried this method, but, according to the videos, it works really well. BUT, you need to let it cook out to get rid of the raw flour taste.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

ktownskier said:


> One thing to keep in mind, the darker the roux, the less it thickens. The lighter the roux, the more it thickens.
> 
> If you want to make a dark roux quick, and I have never tried it, heat up your fat, oil works better in this case, almost to the smoking point. Then, in an enameled cast iron pot, filled with the correct amount of flour, slowly pour in the hot oil while you have someone stir the mixture the resulting mixture. Because the oil is smokin' hot, you will quickly have a dark roux.
> 
> I saw this on a cajun cooking show a long time ago.



Be real hard not to burn it using that method.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

ktownskier said:


> ...Then I stumbled on the key. Wondra Flour. It is wheat flour that has been pre-cooked and dried and finely ground. Because it is cooked, it doesn't take long to cook out any remaining raw flour taste. Also, since it is finely ground, it is quick to mix with the fat.


Never heard of that, but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks!



ktownskier said:


> I have been using Wondra for almost 2 decades and I have not had any clumps.


Hehehe... I've been using plain 'ole general-purpose flour for more than twice that long, and not had any clumps. The secret is to mix the fat and flour about 50/50, to the consistency of pancake batter. I find one of those spiral, spring-like whisks to be easiest, but even mixing with a fork will do. Only when it's thoroughly mixed to you add the rest of the liquid (or in the case of stew, add it _to_ the rest of the liquid.)


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

I made a pot roast a day or so ago and used a slurry. It works so good, I plan to do this from now on when the situation calls for thickening.
I used tap water and flour and shook it up real good before whisking some in increments into the pot roast stock. It thickened beautifully and it is MUCH easier then making a roux.
I will not use a roux any more at Thanksgiving for turkey gravy. Its more work and not any better. I will use a slurry from now on. And for those concerned about calories, using a slurry in lieu of a roux eliminates added fat. Plain flour and water.
It is paramount to whisk the slurry into the hot liquid. A spoon works, but a whisk works way better and eliminates lumps. Using a special flour is not at all required as regular AP flour works just fine. No lumps.


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