# Rheem hot water heater - pilot / burner not staying lit?



## hayewe farm

Go to your local hardware or computer store and pick up a can of air used to clean computer keyboards. With the pilot off insert the air can tube in the end of the pilot tube and give it a couple of blasts of air. It may be you have an oxygen depletion unit that is dirty. The blast of air will usually clean it. Then try lighting the pilot and see if it will work. A good indication that this is the problem is that the pilot light is an orangeish color.


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## CZSteve

hayewe,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try one day this week; work is crazy right now - good trouble to have 

Question: the cover plates states that if the cover is removed from the sealed chamber that the gasket should be replaced.
Is it absolutely critical to always replace the gasket?
I have not removed the panel yet; but if care is taken and the gasket is not damaged I would assume no problem in re-using - yes? no?
Best place to acquire parts such as a gasket if needed? Fergusons?

Thanks
Steve


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## CZSteve

*Getting closer but need more HELP*

I ordered a new heater assembly.
Pilot lights much easier. Pilot stays lit with no problem but when I turned on the burner the flames slowly extinguished - could obviously tell it was exhausting the oxygen supply and starving for air.

Appears the problem is with a diaphragm underneath that is not staying open.
There is a spring loaded pin I can push down on and feel / hear the diaphragm opening and then closing shut when released.
Following pics show:
Current condition









Here's the old burner and tip that I assume engages the plunger (new is same)









Larger part pulled from plunger; smaller part was discovered laying loose after further inspection.









I'm assuming either I just don't know how the parts go back together or I'm missing another part that either broke or came loose.
Anyone have any insight?


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## stoneatti

*I had same problem but figured it out*

I was searching the web for an answer to my problem and came across your post. I have a 41V40-40F Rheem which stopped making hot water the other day. My son was painting (with latex paint, not flammable shallac) outside the room where the hot water heater is and heard a loud boom but couldn't find the source as everything in the room was intact. No one told me this until I mentioned that the hot water heater was not working. I tried to light the pilot but there was no response and after checking everything I did some reading on the web and saw that the gas valve (thermostat) has a one time protection thingy that opens the circuit in the gas valve should the water overheat. So, I replaced the gas valve and the pilot lit fine but when I turned the heat dial up and the burner kicked in it only lasted a couple of seconds. I pulled the burner out slightly and relit it and the flames kept going so I knew it was starving for air. Upon pulling the burner out I discovered the same two parts that you have in your picture. I did not read your post until I tried many combinations to try to keep the shaft up. I thought that they were using gravity and if there was a problem that the flap would drop and cover the air entry hole underneath. Then I realized that the flap is closed unless you push down on the shaft and there is a spring feel to it which I confirmed by loading an owners manual which has a rudimentary diagram of the safety mechanism. So here's how it's supposed to be. The Bottom piece has a round hole which the shaft pushes up through if the little round clip falls out. What you don't see in your picture is the third piece of the puzzle and I'm guessing it its a small pin that fits between the bottom piece and the top. This is going to be hard for people reading this to envision how the pieces fit together and I didn't think of taking a pic of the setup when put back in place. I'm also thinking that this pin works the same way the glass bulb or the piece of wax does in a sprinkler head. It probably melts or maybe the curved piece is bi-metallic and with the right amount of heat bends and releases the pin. Now mind you, I vacuumed out the bottom of the heater to remove all the soot so I could have sucked up a tiny pin. When the pieces are assembled correctly the curved piece has a little tab which fits into a slot on the larger piece and the flat side of the curved piece covers the hole keeping the shaft pushed down about an inch and a half beneath. Then the "pin" if you had one goes between the hole in the curved piece and the hole in the top of the bottom piece. I used a screw which I screwed into the hole in the curved part and the head of the screw fit just under the larger piece under the surface where the other hole is. So I made my own pin without the safety factor. It's easily accessible and I will order a replacement if they sell it. Hopefully someone will read my post and not have to go through the agony of trying to figure out why the flame goes out every time you light it.


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## stoneatti

*Forgot to mention.*

I forgot to mention that once I put this safety mechanism together I had to push it down on the shaft and it has two wings that fit into the two slots on the piece that's built into the floor of the unit. As you are pushing down you twist it about 25-30 degrees making sure that the wings fit into the slots in the built in piece. Once it is installed the shaft is held down about an inch and a half and the burner burns fine. I guess if you wanted to you could use a flat piece of steel maybe a broken off piece of a hacksaw blade and forget about the other pieces and just twist it into the slots on the built in piece while holding the shaft down below the slots just enough to slip the piece of the blade across the top of the shaft. The upward pressure of the shaft would keep the blade piece from moving. Remember, you are defeating a safety mechanism and Rheem says to replace the whole heater if this happens so if you do this you assume all risks. But it can't be any worse that a normal water heater with the open burner design. Make sure you don't let any flammable vapors get near the heater.


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## CZSteve

Stone - thanks.
I should have posted back to possibly help others down the road.

Your screw solution is 'exactly' what I did (used stainless). I agree, bypassing this safety feature turns the water heater into what a normal open air unit is. Ours is inside and not worried about gasoline or other volatile vapors.

Best,
Steve


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## stoneatti

I looked back at the pictures above and re-read my posts and want to clarify a couple of things. If you look at the pic with the two pieces laying on the floor you seethe larger piece in the foreground and the curved piece in the foreground. If you lay the curved piece on the bottom of the larger piece, iinserting the tab in the curved piece into the little slot on the larger piece you essentially have put it together. Then if you look at the hole in the curved part and the hole in the top of the larger piece there will be a gap of about an inch or so and this is where the pin would be to keep pressure down on the curved piece. 

The pin is not tiny as I mentioned, it spans the gap of about an inch.

Below is a post on another site describing what you have to go through if the "TRD" device kicks in. Now keep in mind, you don't have to have a vapor incident for the TRD to sacrifice its life and render the whole heater unusable. If the gas valve stops regulating the temp and the temp shoots up the gas valve will trigger a built-in high temp safety (One time and throw away the valve) cutoff and will not "pass gas":laughing:. The TRD will most likely release rendering it un resettable and you replace the whole water heater. Sorry folks but the likelyhood of my water heater having a flammable vapor incident is extemely low because of where it is and there is never any possibility of any chemical vapors in the area. So my decision to override the safety cutoff damper is based on the fact that I have a 40 gallon water heater that I won at a local charity auction about 10 years ago (don't ask) and was saving it for when one of my heaters needed replacement. This unit is the open chamber type and is actually less safe than leaving the unit I currently have with my override. At least the burner chamber is sealed and there is more protection in that sense. I just hate sweating pipes and reconfiguring flue stacks. 


Rheem 41V40-40F Flammable Vapor Incident http://www.diychatroom.com/index.ph...ent&print=1&page=&option=com_content&Itemid=3 http://www.diychatroom.com/index.ph...kZW50Jm9wdGlvbj1jb21fY29udGVudCZJdGVtaWQ9Mw== Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to reset the Rheem 41V40-40F after a flammable vapor incident. Many other manufacturers, such as A.O. smith and Bradford White, have made resettable devices or replaceable parts to aid in getting the heater back working after an incident. Rheem has no devices or parts available to reset their unit. Their reasoning is that “if the unit trips the thermal release device for any reason we want to be aware of it. (yeah, they want to see another heater sold) It means combustion chamber temperatures exceeded what we consider to be normal. The water heater must be replaced.”
Rheem considers normal combustion chamber operating temperatures to be about 350º – 375º. 
Is thermal release device activation a warranty replacement?Answer: No. The TRD is a component part. If it fails due to improper workmanship, it will be covered under warranty. The warranty will also cover the tank leak not the activation of the component thermal release device. The warranty also covers parts replacement; but not the activation of the TRD due to misuse. The thermal release device is NOT a consumable part like a thermocouple or gas valve.
You will have to replace the entire water heater, which is not under warranty and pay for the installation labor of the new heater.


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## jakhowl

*this was really helpful*

Thanks for the photos and information on the gas water heater problems, my problem was exactly the same and now I have a good running heater again.
thanks
jack


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## PhilSki

My in laws have a Rheem 21V40-38 and the pilot light will not stay lit. The unit was purchased and installed on 6/6/2000. I was wondering if I should attempt to replace the pilot burner or since the unit is ten yrs old go for a replacement which has been quoted as 650 for all labor and materials including the new water heater. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any help provided.


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## jaque4u

*TRD replacement*

Same thing happend to me in Feb.2010. The oil filled glass vial that holds the pin down broke. Called Rheem. They are now suppling a replacemnt TRD kit, part number SP20246A. They must have been replacing too many $600 water heaters under warranty for that $0.25 glass part...Said you're supposed to have a "certified tech" install it. But since I had the thing apart 4 times already I did it myself in about 5 minutes. Easier than changing sparks plugs, and I wasn't gonna pay $150 to a tech for that. Now, the stupid thing broke again last night. Bypassed it with a small binder clip for now. I'll bet they won't send me another one, oh well then they can replace my entire heater this time....I'll never buy another Rheem product, EVER...


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## DonaldT

Thank you all for posting your experiences. I was having a similar problem but for quite a different reason. But trying to check the TRD led me to find the real problem.

Southern California got a lot of rain prior to Christmas. We were out of town and when we returned I found the pilot light on our direct vent water heater had gone out. I also found the drip pan full of water. This has happened before (the drip pan having water after a rain) but not as much as this time.

Anyway, I re-lit the pilot light and fired up the water heater, but a few seconds after closing the pilot light door the flame went out. I did it all again with the same results. Since it was late I only spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out what was wrong.

The next morning I went on the internet and found this thread. I tried to use a mirror and flashlight to see if I could find the TRD but could not. So I decided to just feel around for it. As soon as I put my finger into the hole under the burners I hit water. The air intake passage was filled with rain water, effectively chocking off the fresh air. A few minutes with a siphon tube cured the problem and the water heater works normally again.

**********************************************
A N____I M P O R T A N T____L E S S O N____L E A R N E D
**********************************************
I did, however, discover one thing about thermocouples that I had not realized before, or just had not thought about them enough. We know that a thermocouple has to be heated before it will allow gas to flow. What I had not thought about was that in my situation, where the burners went out due to insufficient air, the thermocouple had already heated to the point where it would allow gas to flow. It takes 10 to 15 seconds for the thermocouple to cool enough to shut off the gas flow. During this cool-down period there is a full gas flow to the (now extinguished) burners. This creates an very dangerous gas build-up If you try to relight the pilot light the gas could erupt. At best you will get a good scare when flame comes shooting out the pilot light door; at worst an explosion could occur. It is very important to either wait for, or force, the gas to dissipate before attempting to re-light the pilot light.


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## inquisite1

call 1 800 heater3 give them the model # and serial # off the sticker on the water heater and they have the TRD replacement part . the one you have pictured here has the glass bead broken. But it is very important to blow out the screen recessed below the burner just in front of the spring loaded plunger. If you do not do this it will burn out again. thanks.


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## inquisite1

The reason it breaks is one of 2 the air screen recessed in front of it in the triange lots of tiny holes in the bottom is dirty must blow out all the holes. Or you had a vapor incident where other gas vapor gases entered the screen and flashed causing the TRD to trip.If the screen is dirty and you replace the device without blowing it out it will only blow again.If you bypass the device the heater will light but will start sooting and smell bad also stopping up the exhaust.


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## S.Ali

Do anyone have a pic, after fixing that problem? This is the third time happened with us Having such a bad experience with Rheem 14V40-40F. NEED HELP!!!


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## JRHelgeson

*The binder clip fixed it, for now*

Thankfully, I found this thread before I went out to fix this.
I took some pictures to hopefully assist others with this issue:

My water heater is a 50 Gallon GE Smartwater that was born on 1/2005, according to the sticker.


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## telele

*replacing TRDrheem water heater*

I followed the Paperclip trick, but instead of using a paperclip, i bent the clipboard/spring so that it holds the metal rod down, enabling air to come through and it works like a charm. thanks for the advice. it made my day


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## SE Charlie

*Clip Worked - Now What?*

Hi,

Thanks for all of the tips and advice. I am now well informed about TRD! When I called Rheem they had me take out the burner (1st time-had a hell of time doing it, but made it happen). Called back, diagnosed the TRD, saw the broken glass. They're mailing one to me, however, much like others, I have to have a "certified tech" install it. 

In the meantime, I paperclipped it and my burner is heating our water! My question becomes, how long will this fix last? Is it temporary or should I go ahead and have a "certified tech" come out after awhile? I'm worried about potential danger. Can someone give me a little peace of mind? Thanks again!

Carlos


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## AllanJ

I have the same situation as described above and made the same jury rig as described above to hold down the plunger using the old omega shaped glass bulb TRD holder but with no new glass bulb.

I was not able to push the plunger rod all the way down (I have weak fingers) so I put the glass bulb holder in cockeyed resting against the underside of the diamond shaped opening instead of properly in its two side brackets.

Thinkng that the partially depressed plunger did not open the air vents enough, I removed the old gasket from the burner and hatch cover assembly and put it back together with the hatch cover a bit ajar to let more air in like on an old style open combustion chamber heater.

By the way, the D shaped clip sits on the bottom of the TRD holder to both hold the glass bulb centered above it and to hold the plunger coming up from below down all the way.

As described above, presto, now I have hot water. My guess is that it will work forever this way.

* Can anyone think of any disadvantages to operating the heater indefinitely in this fashion 'sans' the safety feature of the glass bulb TRD assembly? Not counting the flammable vapor problem the TRD was invented for and is meant to address (I moved all the paint thinner, etc. to the other side of the basement).*


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## mike356

I came across this thread via Google, and found it very helpful. Now, I want to add something to it so others may benefit.

My old heater is on its last legs (slow leak) so I went shopping for a replacement. The only one in the area that I could find was at Home Depot (a 30 gallon GE). The box it was in had obviously been opened and taped closed. Looking in from the top, it looked OK, and the store people didn't admit to any problems, so I bought it. Got it into my car, and started to drive, and I heard water sloshing inside. Someone had returned it, and the Home Depot crooks sold it as new.

Went back into the store, and complained. I should have just cancelled the sale, but instead I got them to give me a substantial discount.

Got it home, connected it to the gas source, and (of course) the main burner wouldn't stay lit.

Opened it up, and the shutoff device had been tripped.

I called the customer service number, and the woman I spoke to couldn't have been nicer. She offered to send me the repair kit FedEx overnight. It consisted of the new shutoff device, a replacement gasket, and hardware.

This is what it looks like:










This is the label on the box:










You can buy this kit (about $50) here:

http://www.plccenter.com/Buy/RHEEM/SP20246B

I don't know if this kit fits all GE/Rheem heaters, so check before ordering.

The question that was bothering me was what caused the safety device to trip. Careful examination gave me some clues. What I believe happened was that rain water came down through the flue pipe into the burner, and caused the device to trip. The main burner is concave on the top with two holes. You can see that water had pooled on top to the level of the holes and then dribbled down below (the safety device is directly below the burner).










Looking up the flue pipe, you can see trails where water was running down the pipe.










I also took the bottom off the heater (4 screws), and you can see what the safety device looks like from below.










You can see a little rust on the insulation.

I haven't been able to find any evidence that the tank itself was leaking, or that it was in a flood. The manufacture date is March 2012, so it isn't that old.

I wonder if this heater was a victim of hurricane Sandy? If cold water got onto that glass ampoule when it was hot, it could easily have caused it to shatter.

So, I should now have a fully operational heater. I will know in a couple of days when I complete the installation.


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## AllanJ

mike356 said:


> I came across this thread via Google, and found it very helpful. Now, I want to add something to it so others may benefit.
> 
> My old heater is on its last legs (slow leak) so I went shopping for a replacement. The only one in the area that I could find was at Home Depot (a 30 gallon GE).
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Got it home, *connected it to the gas source*, and (of course) the main burner wouldn't stay lit.
> 
> Opened it up, and the shutoff device had been tripped.
> 
> I called the customer service number, and the woman I spoke to couldn't have been nicer. She offered to send me the repair kit FedEx overnight. It consisted of the new shutoff device, a replacement gasket, and hardware.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> I also *took the bottom off the heater* (4 screws), and you can see what the safety device looks like from below.
> 
> So, I should now have a fully operational heater. I will know in a couple of days *when I complete the installation*.


You connected it up the gas source and later you show the heater turned on its side to show the air shutoff damper from below.

I hope you did not activate the burner with the water lines not connected and the tank not completely full. That could have severely damaged the tank if the burner did not shut off in a few seconds.

To be sure the tank is full, you should have water gushing from a hot water faucet before firing up the water heater.

A big warning to anyone eavesdropping on this thread and being inspired to experiment with things.


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## mike356

AllanJ said:


> You connected it up the gas source and later you show the heater turned on its side to show the air shutoff damper from below.
> 
> I hope you did not activate the burner with the water lines not connected and the tank not completely full. That could have severely damaged the tank if the burner did not shut off in a few seconds.
> 
> To be sure the tank is full, you should have water gushing from a hot water faucet before firing up the water heater.
> 
> A big warning to anyone eavesdropping on this thread and being inspired to experiment with things.


I was aware of that possibility. Actually, I did have several gallons of water in the heater for my brief trial run.

In any event, my intention was never to run it more than long enough to verify that the burner and ignition functioned properly, maybe 5 seconds max.

Your warning is well taken and appreciated though.


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## eclark

Also worth noting is that if it was submerged then you're in trouble. Once a burner has been under water you're supposed to replace it. The water can do terrible things to the small orifices and cause catastrophic problems. Any other signs of submersion?


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## jagans

What a patently stupid safety device. One step forward, three steps back.


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## mike356

eclark said:


> Also worth noting is that if it was submerged then you're in trouble. Once a burner has been under water you're supposed to replace it. The water can do terrible things to the small orifices and cause catastrophic problems. Any other signs of submersion?


None at all. The water heater is working quite nicely, at least for now. :thumbsup:


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## AllanJ

On this and many similar models, the burner lifts out with the hatch cover. You can then make sure it is dired out after a flood and you can ream out the various orifices and get rid of rust and dust and soot. But you must be careful not to force a rod or wire through so as to deform or enlarge any orifices.

Cleaning the control assembly that got flood water inside is not much different from overhauling a car carburetor. It's complex enough that it is more expedient to discard and replace the control.

More likely for furnaces and ovens but not ruled out for water heaters: If the orifices nearest the pilot light are clogged, then more gas will come out into the combustion chamber before the pilot light catches. This can result in a noisy kick on or, in extreme cases, an explosion at every kick on that eventually damages the heater.


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## wymerm

*Cheap and easy fix to RHEEM TRD problem*

If you notice the glass tube is broken and you have no air flow causing the flame to die out do what I did assuming you know your furnace is in good running order. Lets say your vent holes around the base had dust, lint etc. plugging them up which led to an overheating condition which led to the glass tube shattering and shutting your flame off. Take a piece of steel about 5"x 2" and press down on the steel pin that pops up when the glass tube shatters. Start with the 5" length running from front to back. With the pin depressed now turn the piece of metal 90 degs. and slide it under the diamond shape cut-out. This will keep the pin depressed, opening the damper and allowing air flow to feed the flame. WAALLLAHHH. Back in business!


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## Rebel Yell

I am amazed that no one has figured out the most common cause of a TRD failure. I have been a plumber for over 31 years, & have been installing water heaters long before these safety devices came out. The number one cause of failure is due to back drafting, resulting from improper flue pipe sizing. A lot of the time a water heaters flue is common vented into a furnace flue, & it is inadequately sized for the volume of flue gas that needs to be vented out of the home or business. Sometimes it can also be a matter of it being too long of a horizontal run of flue pipe, before the flue pipe goes vertical & up and out through the roof vent. What happens in both situations is the very hot excess combustion gas has to go somewhere, so it backs up & goes to the combustion chamber & will cause the TRD to shatter. The one person who thought his water heater had taken on water as a result of a hurricane. If he checks the vent tables that came with his water heater (paperwork that is usually in a clear plastic pouch stuck on the side of the heater) & he can do a rough estimate as to the overall length of his flue pipe with elbows (3' per elbow) & overall length, he will most likely find his flue pipe is too long. A flue pipe that is too long allows the combustion gas to cool down too much before it exits the flue, & the combustion gas has so much heat taken out from the cooler walls of the metal flue pipe that it starts condensing. The end result is condensate starts running back down the inside of a flue. The only proper way to check for this is by using a vent tables guide, that comes with every water heater. Good luck.


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## Rebel Yell

AllanJ said:


> I have the same situation as described above and made the same jury rig as described above to hold down the plunger using the old omega shaped glass bulb TRD holder but with no new glass bulb.
> 
> I was not able to push the plunger rod all the way down (I have weak fingers) so I put the glass bulb holder in cockeyed resting against the underside of the diamond shaped opening instead of properly in its two side brackets.
> 
> Thinkng that the partially depressed plunger did not open the air vents enough, I removed the old gasket from the burner and hatch cover assembly and put it back together with the hatch cover a bit ajar to let more air in like on an old style open combustion chamber heater.
> 
> By the way, the D shaped clip sits on the bottom of the TRD holder to both hold the glass bulb centered above it and to hold the plunger coming up from below down all the way.
> 
> As described above, presto, now I have hot water. My guess is that it will work forever this way.
> 
> *Can anyone think of any disadvantages to operating the heater indefinitely in this fashion 'sans' the safety feature of the glass bulb TRD assembly? Not counting the flammable vapor problem the TRD was invented for and is meant to address (I moved all the paint thinner, etc. to the other side of the basement).*


The TRD is designed to break when excess heat builds up in the combustion chamber of your water heater. The TRD "IS" a safety device. The number one cause of failure is due to hot combustion gasses back drafting down the vent pipe, due to inadequate flue design. Flue gasses (combustion gasses) contain carbon monoxide. You needed to get a professional plumber or a reputable hvac person to check out your flue, measure it out & check the draft tables on it. At the least have several carbon monoxide detectors in your home, as you are going to need them.


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## MWILMA

*Heroes*

You guys so completely rock. I was trolling the internet for a new water heater and guess what it wasn't going to be a new Rheem. I hope they never discover this chatroom


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## Bud Man

*Thanks so much*

been foolin with this hot water heater for 3 days. had to go to truck stop for shower. THANK YOU so very much for the info. GREAT HELP


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## Johnrv501

I appreciate this thread folks! I know what caused my TRD to trip, so as a temporary fix to allow the heat to dry the bottom of my heater, I took one of the old screws (which is the same length as the glass vial of the replacement TRD) from the site window cover an placed it head down in the old TRD assembly where the vial was nestled, lined up the shut off rod with the hole and pushed down and twisted it back into position. Mind you, this is a temporary fix, so I can dry the insulation at the bottom of my water heater up. My pan got almost full of water and it eventually soaked into the housing insulation, cutting off air flow. My intentions are to replace it with the OEM part one I know it's good and dry. However, this is a 12 yr old water heater, so the tank itself may not too much time left on it as it is. There is probably a new replacement in the near future.


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