# problem with rebuilding a starter motor



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

All the wires hooked to the right poles?


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

I believe so. Hey, maybe I switched the poles of the solenoid?? I mean, if poles of solenoid are switched, would the clutch still pop out? I kinda doubt it, but not 100% sure......


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

There is no clutch on a starter, do you mean Bendix?
http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_training/training_4.php


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

joecaption said:


> There is no clutch on a starter, do you mean Bendix?
> http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_training/training_4.php


There is a "clutch" on a starter. Ever take one apart/look at a diagram? At least, thats what people call them, guesss we could call them something else. Whats a bendix (without me looking it up on wikipedia)?


----------



## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I can't remember now which one is which but one type uses inertia to propel the gear into place while the other uses a magnetic solenoid to pull a plunger that drives the gear into place. If the solenoid is attached to the starter this is the type with the plunger.


----------



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-starter-and-solenoid-works


----------



## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Did you clean up the commutator that the brushes run against? If so you probably shorted it out. The small spaces between the commutator segments can be easily contaminated with metal or carbon particles from cleaning and end up shorting out the armature.

I wouldn't bother with it, If you bought a quality rebuilt or new unit it will likely last as long as the original, not worth keeping it around in storage. Pretty small cost given the length of service. Usually a rebuilt unit will either fail quickly during the warranty period or last a very long time.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

PoleCat said:


> I can't remember now which one is which but one type uses inertia to propel the gear into place while the other uses a magnetic solenoid to pull a plunger that drives the gear into place. If the solenoid is attached to the starter this is the type with the plunger.


magnetic solenoid- plunger, with spring, activates the clutch, with a fork, ......but again, thats not the problem- the clutch works. The problem is the MOTOR.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

iamrfixit said:


> Did you clean up the commutator that the brushes run against? If so you probably shorted it out. The small spaces between the commutator segments can be easily contaminated with metal or carbon particles from cleaning and end up shorting out the armature.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with it, If you bought a quality rebuilt or new unit it will likely last as long as the original, not worth keeping it around in storage. Pretty small cost given the length of service. Usually a rebuilt unit will either fail quickly during the warranty period or last a very long time.


Yes, fixit, I did clean up the commutator, and the stacks. Shop manual says to do that. Now, if I shorted it, did I ruin it? Not clear on that- I followed the usual method of sanding down slightly the copper area, with fine grit, then dusted off. 

The rebuild is junk. Squeals like mad upon start up. This original Im trying to rebuild is OEM Bosch, made in Germany. The bushings are even better condition than the new ones included in the rebuild kit for this starter! So, I kept them on. 

Thanks, fixit.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

nice article, joe- now I know the bendix is the sprocket "gear"- whatever- still, the article confirms the starter has a clutch.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

took it apart, checkd commutator for ohms to shaft, and I get no circuit/infinity (thats a good unit, I understand), indicating no shorting (right, guys??)

put it back together. will batery test it tomorow, too late for me now- bedtime. Also, dark outside. 
Thanks, people.


----------



## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

Did you do anything with the solenoid? The plunger also is the contact for the big current that drives the motor. The contacts must be clean and free of oil, not burnt to a crisp etc. The plunger must be able to slide evenly so it slams all the way in and doesn't get lodged in its sleeve.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

PoleCat said:


> Did you do anything with the solenoid? The plunger also is the contact for the big current that drives the motor. The contacts must be clean and free of oil, not burnt to a crisp etc. The plunger must be able to slide evenly so it slams all the way in and doesn't get lodged in its sleeve.


thnaks, pole. Thinking about it- contacts are clean/no burnt. Now, remembering, before I took the whole thing apart, the starter DID work (I probably did not make that clear). So, solenoid, I assume should be OK. Right? 

Also, doesnt it mean solenoid is ok since now it at least, does move the clutch forward into position. just that at that point, no motor activation. I mean, according to one source, that IS the solenoid go/no go test. 

Wanted to try it today, but no time to jump it with batteryu cables. but dont worry, I wil get back to yous hopefully by sunday. Big thanks for your support in this perplexing matter, people!!


----------



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I have a Ford starter here that I rebuilt for the same reason. All these part store parts seem to be junk anymore. I just changed the fuel pump on my work van three times before I got one that worked. The new window motor that I put in the driver's side a couple months ago has already quit.


----------



## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

The winding in the solenoid can be fine and pull in the plunger but the actual contacts can be worn out and no longer making good connection.


----------



## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

The pic is a Ford starter and solenoid, but they all look generally alike.

To test out of car, connect a strong 12V power source (eg car battery and jumper cables to the unit). A weak source may not power the motor.

The Negative can clamp to one of the starter mounting ears. 

If you touch the positive Briefly to terminal "M" the motor should spin. Stand clear as you do this, the motor is liable to jump/roll from the torque.

Touching the positive to terminal "S" should operate the solenoid, but not the motor.

To test the whole thing, clamp the positive to terminal "B". Then use an old screwdriver or insulated wire (w/ ends stripped) to jump some power from "B" to "S".
Again, be prepared for the motor to move.


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Good to know, oso- I will try that very soon.....
update:

I went through this entire tedious test method:

http://www.ehow.com/how_8197179_test-dc-armature.html

The armature checks out!! I cant figure this dang thing out. Spent sooo much time on it already. sheesh. Not giving up yet, though. Einstien said "so many otherwise breakthroughs are missed when the experimenter gives up just before the discovery is about to be manifested". Or something like that- please feel free to correct the quote.........


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

revellation!! Einstein was right!! I followed Oso's steps above, and man, touching M terminal with Pos voltage sparks!! Smokes!! I immediately pulled it away, of course. Then, I put an ohmmeter on the M and base (ground) and I get continuity (0.3-0.4 ohms) where I should get infinity(right?)!! Im shorting the motor out somehow!! What the heck did I do wrong, people????!!!! 

Oh- touching terminal S like it says above does make the solenoid "pop" out, pushing "clutch" forward. So, that part of it is OK. I assume because of that solenoid is good(?) Keep in mind, I didnt do anything to the solenoid before dismantling the motor- and it worked nicely before with old brushes (before dismantling to put on new brushes).


----------



## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

finaly got it, man, what a finicky situation- starter shop blew out some spec of dust, apparently, cuz they too were puzzled as to why it was shorting out. They repeated it 2X, take apart, mount it together. Finally, blew out minor dust with compressor, and it started. But, we were on the right track, people. Im glad yous were there to see me through it- we tried our best. 

Big thanks to all here.


----------

