# Connecting timer with no neutral wire in box



## Code05 (May 24, 2009)

It ain't gonna work without a neutral. The red wire is not a neutral.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Is your house wired with conduit?
With 2 black wires on the switch, it may be.
If it is, you can run a neutral from the switch location to the light.


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## miaclockman (Sep 18, 2011)

*No conduit*

UnfortUnately there is no conduit. It wasn't code when the house was built. What could the red wire in the box be? It and the black wires are the only ones in the box.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

one is incoming power --the other is out going power to the switch--(a switch leg)


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## miaclockman (Sep 18, 2011)

*Correction to original post*

I stand corrected. I pulled out all of the switches. 
However I stand corrected - in the box are white and 2 sets of black wires. One set of black are bundled together and the other black wire is jumped from the other switch for the wall outlet. Your timer instructions call for a "blue" wire. Well the wiring in this house has NOTHING standard as far as colors are concerned. Lennar corporation probably cut corners this way. It took me forever to figure out the colors of the thermostat when I bought a new digital one because they used all different colors. If you want me to get a shot of the box and show it to you, I would be happy to do that. I attempteAd to connect the white wire of the timer to the white wire in the box. Then I tried one of the black wires to the black wire on the timer. The timer illuminated, but when I tried to turn ON the lights, the timer shows ON, but the lights are not. I tried the other black wire in the box, but the timer wouldn't light up at all. If I connected the timer to BOTH black lines, it turns on, but the lights stay ON regardless of whether the switch is on or off. I assume that one of these BLACK wires in the box should be BLUE. Is there a way to tell?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You will not find a blue conductor in a cable in a residential setting. The blue is probably used to signify function. The lack of a blue does not mean that the builder cut corners.

Following the instructions available here:

http://www.jascoproducts.com/support/timer-quick-start-guide.asp

The power connects to the black, the blue connects to the wire that is controlled by the old switch and the white splices to the whites in the box. The timer also gets grounded with the rest of the bare or green wires.


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## miaclockman (Sep 18, 2011)

*Proem solved*

Thanks so much, Jim! Your instructions were perfect and the timer is in and working.


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## atalla (Oct 9, 2011)

*One more question on this timer...*

Any ideas as to why this timer might appear to be correctly installed and correctly turns the lights on and off (in other words when the LCD says On the lights are on and vice versa) but the lights simply do not automatically switch at dawn and dusk.

I have installed three of these on three different circuits and all three behave exactly the same way. They are set to auto and I have walked through the setup for dawn and dusk several times but they simply won't switch at those moments.

Getting a little ticked at having to walk around and manually turn on my house lights every night. Advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.


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## atalla (Oct 9, 2011)

Ignore me. I figured out my bonehead mistake.



atalla said:


> Any ideas as to why this timer might appear to be correctly installed and correctly turns the lights on and off (in other words when the LCD says On the lights are on and vice versa) but the lights simply do not automatically switch at dawn and dusk.
> 
> I have installed three of these on three different circuits and all three behave exactly the same way. They are set to auto and I have walked through the setup for dawn and dusk several times but they simply won't switch at those moments.
> 
> Getting a little ticked at having to walk around and manually turn on my house lights every night. Advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.


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## Comhertz (Oct 23, 2011)

atalla said:


> Ignore me. I figured out my bonehead mistake.


I'm still in bonehead mode. Installed timer. Programmed p1 to turn off on lights every day of week. Doesn't automatically do anything. 

What was your mistake?


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## Comhertz (Oct 23, 2011)

atalla said:


> Ignore me. I figured out my bonehead mistake.


What was it? I have your same issue. Manually the switch works, but auto does not. I've programmed p1 and pressed auto. Doesnt work.


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## mikey48 (Dec 6, 2007)

I am guessing you have no common in the box, which is needed to run the timer.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Comhertz, in order for the timer to work, you need to follow the manufacturer instructions. A switch leg is used to save on wire. You have to have a neutral in the box, in order for it to work. Under the new code for switch legs, that means pulling 14/3, otherwise, you have to have power into the switch box, and 14/2 exiting for the timer to work under existing and current code.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

miaclockman said:


> I stand corrected. I pulled out all of the switches.
> However I stand corrected - in the box are white and 2 sets of black wires. One set of black are bundled together and the other black wire is jumped from the other switch for the wall outlet. Your timer instructions call for a "blue" wire. Well the wiring in this house has NOTHING standard as far as colors are concerned. Lennar corporation probably cut corners this way. It took me forever to figure out the colors of the thermostat when I bought a new digital one because they used all different colors. If you want me to get a shot of the box and show it to you, I would be happy to do that. I attempteAd to connect the white wire of the timer to the white wire in the box. Then I tried one of the black wires to the black wire on the timer. The timer illuminated, but when I tried to turn ON the lights, the timer shows ON, but the lights are not. I tried the other black wire in the box, but the timer wouldn't light up at all. If I connected the timer to BOTH black lines, it turns on, but the lights stay ON regardless of whether the switch is on or off. I assume that one of these BLACK wires in the box should be BLUE. Is there a way to tell?


The manufacturer knows more about what they are doing, than you know about the product that the OP is using. The blue wire is proper, and following the directions of it, it will work.


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## tessai004 (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm soooo glad that I was able to get the info from Jim's post.... Bought it, installed it, had to switch two wires around, I now have a working porch light! I'm happpy on this end!!!!


Tessai004


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## Sweens (Jun 13, 2013)

*Knob and tube wiring for digital timer*

Help. I just purchased a Defiant Daylight Adjusting Digital Timer and am trying to figure out how to wire it in my old house with knob and tube wiring. Had an old timer in there which worked fine but can't find one like it anymore. There are 5 wires in the timer. Red can be ruled out as it is to connect a 3-way. Green is ground. That leaves black, blue & white. I know the white is neutral and black & blue are the hot wires. Don't know how to connect them. My box has a second light switch that has a wire connecting to the spot where the timer will go. I only have one other black wire coming into the box. The light switch has 2 wires connecting to it and then the 3rd one that connects to the timer somehow. Can I use this new timer? How do I wire it? Thanks for any help.


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