# How to deal with misbehaving contractor?



## BobSF

Hi folks,

My contractor was recommended to me by a family friend. He's been really nice, even while messing up the timeline of my project. It's getting to the point where I want to fire him, even though I think he does good work. I don't know what to do and would like to hear the perspective of other people in his business.

The project is a renovation for a single family rental home, no floor plan changes but redoing nearly everything: flooring, cabinets, bathroom. Replacing all the windows, and some cosmetic changes outside, etc.

I'm picky about materials (all green renovation) and have been in a lengthy research process to spec them all before we could get started. As winter snuck closer, I asked him if we could treat the exterior and interior as separate projects and start the exterior before I was done speccing the interior so that the exterior could be completed and painted before the weather changed. He said that was a good idea, and we proceeded.

The first completion estimate he gave me was November 4th. It's now the middle of December and the work still isn't done. He just started putting in windows last week. 

When I've confronted him about timing, I've gotten all kinds of excuses, ranging from illness to his help being busy on another job that unexpectedly went over. He told me before we started that he only takes one project at a time--obviously this was a bold faced lie. Since passing the original target date, he's "promised" to have the job done by other dates that came and went without a word from him. I've had to track him down and find out the status of my project. 

The last time I called about this, he said the delay was a cash flow issue, that some clients were delaying on paying him and that he had been putting off calling me hoping it would resolve itself. In the end, I called him and gave him more money to buy the windows. At least they're in the house now ready to be installed. I was so angry that he didn't notify me of the slowdown/obstacle as soon as it happened. 

Meanwhile the weather has changed, my painters have said "screw it, we're going to paint with or without him and if we have to come back to paint around the windows or touch anything up, so be it" and they are trying their best to do their job working around the weather. It's very frustrating for everyone. Also, they have to come from three hours away (best painters I know, and absolutely trust) so it doesn't work for them to have rain days here and there. 

If the weather doesn't cooperate, this house won't be painted until spring, I won't be able to rent it out, and my contractor will have cost me THOUSANDS of dollars in lost income. He knew the plan, he knew time was of the essence, and yet...

Come to find out from my family who lives next door: he's only been on the job site once or twice a week, and then for only half a day!!!!!! What the heck has he been doing???

The way I see it, this contractor has:
- lied to me
- made promises he couldn't or wouldn't keep
- completely neglected my project despite knowing that time is of the essence

And when I confront him about it, all he does is try to talk his way out of it all.

Part of the problem here is not having a clear contract. All I have is signed cost estimates. I've never done this before, but I'll never make that mistake again. Whoever does the exterior work will be someone who is willing to sign a contract with written time estimates, penalties for not meeting them, and a clear process for adjusting completion dates by mutual agreement.

In the meantime, I have to figure out what to do about this contractor. Personally, I like him a lot. I think he does great work for a reasonable price. But that's only when he, you know, actually works. 

So I have two issues:
1. How to get through the exterior project.
2. How to move forward with the interior.

Re #1: What I think I want to do is call him, tell him much of the above, and say, "By the end of this phone call you're going to give me a completion date for the outside, and if you're not done by then, you're fired. I'm done playing around." 

But, how would you suggest I proceed? This project needs to get DONE.

Re #2: I am thinking that no matter what happens between now and the end of the exterior project that I would be a complete idiot to let him take on the interior project, after all of the above. How can I possibly trust him again? It seems like it's too late for him to redeem himself. 

Your thoughts?

Thanks for any insight/advice/help you can give!


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## Handy Vinny

You are not describing misbehavior; you're describing incompetence and sloth on the part of the contractor and, on your part, cowardice. (That is just my opinion.)

Threaten a lawsuit. It may even be worthwhile to go to the trouble of retaining an attorney who can put the fear of God into this guy. That will get the lead out of his pants.


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## Windows

We would never treat a client like that. Then again, our prices are not 'reasonable'. You pay one way or the other...


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## BobSF

Thanks folks... I'm talking with two green contractors right now to get bids for the rest of the job.

Emailed my lawyer.

And it's not so much cowardice as inexperience, and not knowing what actions will help and what actions might make the situation worse. That's why I posted here.


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## Nucon

I'm not an attorney but have been a contractor for a long time and have seen the good and bad side of this business. So here's one way I might handle a bad subcontractor:

send the orignial contractor a notice of delay and intent to supplement his labor. Send it by certified return reciept mail and if possible hand him a copy. It sounds like your timeline agreement may have been a (god shoudl I dare say it) verbal agreement. Hopefully you have something in writting like emails etc. Tell him he has 48hrs notice to remedy his lack of prodcution and after that 48hrs you will supplement his labor and backcharge him for any cost overruns. State that you are doing this because of damages you are accruing due to his inability to meet your agreed upon time frame. 

In the meantime, get the bids from teh other contractors and be ready to contract them within 48hrs. I know your trying to be nice and IMO your letting this Mo kick you around so, you need to "Man Up" and tell him in a very firm voice to get his rear in gear or else.

Good Luck, I hate seeing bad contractors take advantage of good people.

Oh almost forgot to mention it, do not terminate him. Your counsel can tell you why this maybe bad for you.


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## JoeLena

Windows said:


> We would never treat a client like that. Then again, our prices are not 'reasonable'. You pay one way or the other...


Not to stir anything up, but that attitude is why there are so many complaints. You shouldn't pay an inflated fee for good service.


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## BobSF

Thanks... just called the lawyer and left a message. I'm sad to hear that this has reached the point of legal action. 

Yes, this is mostly verbal. Only thing I have in writing is written cost estimates.

And I was thinking we've only agreed to the exterior project (which I just want him to finish and we can move on) and have no agreement regarding the interior (which I have already talked to two other companies about bidding on) but it could be argued that my original deposit was for the whole project inside and out.

In the meantime would you be willing to say more about the importance of not terminating, from your experience?


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## Nucon

It could be argued that you have breeched the contract and hindered him from performing. Its gets much more complicated.

Another approach may be this: Meet with him at the site. Let him know you really like his work but aren't pleased with the schedule. Tell him you are accrueing damages due to his inability to keep a strict schedule. Tell him you have paid him alot of money and consider him paid in full for all his work and want to part ways. Say your desire is to reduce your damages and free up his schedule to deal with his other issues. If he agrees get him to sign a final waiver and say adios amigo!

If he doesn't agree tell him he's got to agree to a schedule and put it in writting. State in this new agreement "Time is of the Essence", failure to meet the timeline is "Material Breech of Contract" and no extension of time will be given for any reason whatsoever wether or not he was at fault. You can always state that he will recieve one day of time for eveyday lost to weather conditions but he needs to request the extension of time within 24hrs of the delay otherwise he forfeit the right to request the extension of time. No extension of time will be given except if agreed to in writting at your sole discretion.

Whatever you do in a contract don't include "penalties" for delays or anyother reason in your contract. Use "liquidated damages". Your attorney can explain why.:thumbsup:


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## Windows

JoeLena said:


> Not to stir anything up, but that attitude is why there are so many complaints. You shouldn't pay an inflated fee for good service.


Contracting is a tough business. The margins are often thin enough that contractors need to have multiple projects going on to stay profitable. You want a discount, then you can't be the sole priority. People complain about contractors because they are ignorant of the business side of it and they have a tendency to take things personally and attack his character - sloth, liar etc. The OP's first instinct is to reach for the stick. He should take the money he would pay to the lawyer and use it as an inducement for the contractor to finish up in a timely manner. That's how you get things done.


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## BobSF

Windows said:


> Contracting is a tough business. The margins are often thin enough that contractors need to have multiple projects going on to stay profitable. You want a discount, then you can't be the sole priority. People complain about contractors because they are ignorant of the business side of it and they have a tendency to take things personally and attack his character - sloth, liar etc. The OP's first instinct is to reach for the stick. He should take the money he would pay to the lawyer and use it as an inducement for the contractor to finish up in a timely manner. That's how you get things done.


I just want to note that in this particular case the client (me) has neither expected a particularly cheap price nor expected to be the sole priority. 

I HAVE expected to be told the truth... he told me he doesn't take more than one project at a time, which is clearly untrue.

I HAVE expected him to do what he says he will, and considering that the original completion date *he gave me* was November 4th, with a number of revised completion dates come and gone with nothing but excuses, he doesn't seem capable of doing that either.


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## JoeLena

Windows said:


> ... and use it as an inducement for the contractor to finish up in a timely manner. That's how you get things done.


In a third world country.


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## Windows

JoeLena said:


> In a third world country.


I forgot. We're an adversarial culture. EVERYTHING must be settled by fighting.


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## rustyjames

BobSF said:


> Thanks... just called the lawyer and left a message. I'm sad to hear that this has reached the point of legal action.
> 
> Yes, this is mostly verbal. Only thing I have in writing is written cost estimates.
> 
> And I was thinking we've only agreed to the exterior project (which I just want him to finish and we can move on) and have no agreement regarding the interior (which I have already talked to two other companies about bidding on) but it could be argued that my original deposit was for the whole project inside and out.
> 
> In the meantime would you be willing to say more about the importance of not terminating, from your experience?


I don't see what a lawyer is going to do other than cost you more money and give the "contractor" heartburn. You should just tell him he's done since he can't meet (or hasn't met) the construction schedule.


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## Michael Thomas

One thing you DO want to do: get a release of lien from EVERY subcontractor or vendor involved in this project - your contractor is having "cash flow" problems, and if you paid your contractor be he has not paid subs or suppliers, they can file liens against your property.


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## jbfan

Windows said:


> Contracting is a tough business. The margins are often thin enough that contractors need to have multiple projects going on to stay profitable. You want a discount, then you can't be the sole priority. People complain about contractors because they are ignorant of the business side of it and they have a tendency to take things personally and attack his character - sloth, liar etc. The OP's first instinct is to reach for the stick. *He should take the money he would pay to the lawyer and use it as an inducement for the contractor to finish up in a timely manner. That's how you get things done.*




Why should he be induced with more money?

If a price was agreed on, a timeline set, why should you try to bribe the guy to finish?


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## Bud Cline

I only take on one job at a time also but jobs still overlap. Not all completion estimates and materials deliveries are in my control. So I don't always do what I originally discussed either. It just happens, unfortunately.

If you were trying to micro-manage one of my jobs and trying to threaten me with liquidated damages and tossing your lawyer at me I would tell you to take your job and shove it.

If you like his work, are happy with the results you have seen, and basically like the guy then you should take a look in the mirror. No one in the contracting business wants their jobs to run-over, it is costly and diminishes incomes and profits rapidly.

If he can't fund your job because he hasn't been paid on other jobs then maybe his front money asking from you was just not enough. If you are financing the job (and you are) then offer up what he needs to keep the ball rolling and get off his back.

If you wanted an employee punching a time clock you should have hired an employee to do hourly work so you could keep your knee in the middle of his back.

I doubt a lawyer is going to do anything but agree with you to your face then soak up your dollars behind the scenes doing nothing. Because you got nothing.

If a few delays are going to break you due to not being able to occupy the property as soon as you wished, maybe you couldn't afford to do the renovations to begin with.


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## Handy Vinny

Bud Cline said:


> I only take on one job at a time also but jobs still overlap. Not all completion estimates and materials deliveries are in my control. So I don't always do what I originally discussed either. It just happens, unfortunately.
> 
> If you were trying to micro-manage one of my jobs and trying to threaten me with liquidated damages and tossing your lawyer at me I would tell you to take your job and shove it.
> 
> If you like his work, are happy with the results you have seen, and basically like the guy then you should take a look in the mirror. No one in the contracting business wants their jobs to run-over, it is costly and diminishes incomes and profits rapidly.
> 
> If he can't fund your job because he hasn't been paid on other jobs then maybe his front money asking from you was just not enough. If you are financing the job (and you are) then offer up what he needs to keep the ball rolling and get off his back.
> 
> If you wanted an employee punching a time clock you should have hired an employee to do hourly work so you could keep your knee in the middle of his back.
> 
> I doubt a lawyer is going to do anything but agree with you to your face then soak up your dollars behind the scenes doing nothing. Because you got nothing.
> 
> If a few delays are going to break you due to not being able to occupy the property as soon as you wished, maybe you couldn't afford to do the renovations to begin with.


Dear Bud,

Thank you, but your comments are off-base.


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## Bud Cline

> Dear Bud,
> Thank you, but your comments are off-base.


Says you?
No more off base than your earlier suggestions.


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## Scuba_Dave

Bud Cline said:


> Says you?
> No more off base than your earlier suggestions.


What you wouldn't take advice from the guy who tiled over carpet ?? :laughing:


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## jomama45

BobSF said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I don't know what to do and would like to hear the perspective of other people in his business.





Handy Vinny said:


> Dear Bud,
> 
> Thank you, but your comments are off-base.


Look above Vinny...........

The OP asked for the opine of actual contractors, and that's exactly what Bud gave him, along with a few others. 

The fact that you think an attorney is the best first course of action show's how far off-base your suggestions are.......................

And how can you call someone else a coward when you yourself seem so quick to "hide" behind legal representation???????? This really isn't that big of a deal, professionals run into much more complex situations on a regular basis, and running to a lawyer right away is a bit pre-mature IMO.


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## Docwhitley

jomama45 said:


> Look above Vinny...........
> 
> The OP asked for the opine of actual contractors, and that's exactly what Bud gave him, along with a few others.
> 
> The fact that you think an attorney is the best first course of action show's how far off-base your suggestions are.......................
> 
> And how can you call someone else a coward when you yourself seem so quick to "hide" behind legal representation???????? This really isn't that big of a deal, professionals run into much more complex situations on a regular basis, and running to a lawyer right away is a bit pre-mature IMO.


I Love Threats of Legal Action... Wonder if anyone else LOVES court as much as me.... I think I should have been a Lawyer!!! Maybe it is time to go back to college!! Here is how it would play out if this was me as the contractor when the papers were served or the threat came out.

If it was a Threat- "I am sorry I have a Master in Plumbing but, not Law so any further communications between you and me or any of my staff will need to go through your Lawyer." This will start to cost you a little $$. Especially when I continue to work until I am served.

Now when I am served... Not a problem at all... I hope you have all of your ducks in a row when you are hit with the following questions.
1- Did he tell you that he only does 1 job at a time? You would say yes! 
2- Did you write up a contract? You would say Yes 
3- Is this your signature on this contract? again yes :thumbup:
4- Are all of the important aspects of your Job written in the Contract? yes:yes:
5- Can you show me where the time line is written? no
6- If all of the important things are written I guess that was not important :whistling2:

Now question I will be asked
1- Was this your only contract? Yes I only take 1 Job at a time and I was scheduled to begin the next job in 2 months
2- Were you on schedule? Yes, I am a professional and just like some court cases take 15 minutes some take days... Especially when you are trying to do a Perfect Job so the Homeowners are Happy
3- So you do not feel if other contractors did the Job they would be able to have had the Job done by now? It is possible but I would not say if the work would be as good as mine. It is kind of like a Burger... You can go to McDonalds and have a Burger in 30 seconds or you can go to Chili's and wait 30 minutes... Sometimes quality is worth waiting for
4- Have you lost money since you were served? Yes as I said earlier I only work 1 job at a time and my next job was not scheduled for 2 months so I was unable to pick up another job that was only a 2 month job and that is why I an counter sueing for lost wages

Guess I should have said that with out a breach of contract I would counter sue for any loss wages since I only work 1 job at a time. I LOVE THE COURT SYSTEM!!!!!

Now why not grab your contractor and say from this point on we have a clean slate. How many hours will it take to finish this Job. Then in front of him write out his check for the day he said it would be done. Example he said 5 days from Now... I would write a check for next Friday and tell him the moment the work is done the check will be handed to him. Every day after that will prolong his money. I think he will get the job done


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## operagost

Being A Dale Carnegie fan, I would have to agree with the contractors that aggressive action is not prudent here. But I would like to point out that this contractor LIED; therefore, I would HOPE that those of you who backed up the wayward contractor don't also support LYING (not mistakes due to poor time management; LYING) about your progress. Keep in mind that we're dealing with an established liar, and keep everything documented.


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## Docwhitley

operagost said:


> Being A Dale Carnegie fan, I would have to agree with the contractors that aggressive action is not prudent here. But I would like to point out that this contractor LIED; therefore, I would HOPE that those of you who backed up the wayward contractor don't also support LYING (not mistakes due to poor time management; LYING) about your progress. Keep in mind that we're dealing with an established liar, and keep everything documented.



If the contractor lied then there are other problems and those need to be handled. I prefer to protect myself and that would me in this situation reeling in the leash and putting out a deadline.


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## Michael Thomas

Around here, a contractor who tried Docwhitley's approach would get cut off at the knees in small claims court ($10,000 limit)- the judges have exactly zero patience with that sort of attitude.

That said, residential remodeling is a thankless business, and I'm glad to have been long out of it.


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## Docwhitley

Michael Thomas said:


> Around here, a contractor who tried Docwhitley's approach would get cut off at the knees in small claims court ($10,000 limit)- the judges have exactly zero patience with it.


People say that all the time but, no matter where you are in the United States a Judge can only enforce what is written in the contract. Verbal discussions are typically thrown out if 1 person disagrees and states they never said that. I have not lost a single case that I have had to bring against people because I am confident in what my contracts state and if my contracts do not cover me... then I do not pursue it is court. The reason most contractors loose in a court of law is that they make it emotional. If you stick to the facts of the contract and object to everything that is not in the contract then the Judge has No way to use "zero Patience" with them. When I am in court the only questions that are allowed are the ones directly related to the contract. Failure to put a time frame into the contract opens up the following questions or statements

HO- The job was not done as quick as I thought it should be
Contractor- I am a pro that does this everyday and I am moving at a steady pace.

In this situation the contractor is considered the more knowledgeable person. It sucks for the Home owner but, it is the truth.

My contracts have specific dates that each part of the job will be completed and when the other contractors will need to have other parts completed. If another contractor is not finished their part and the HO or GC do not contact me and my plumbers go to the job as scheduled then I bill for 1 hour (I also do a follow up 3 days in advance). I find that having the time line completed keeps the jobs on track. 

I also have flipped 26 houses and only 1 ran over the time frame. So I guess to me it is a tried a proven method all the way down to the checks. I even have gone as far for 1 contractor to write his 3 checks on the day we sign the contracts all dated for the specific dates... HE IS NEVER LATE! 

The good part for both HO and Contractors is that Judges are paid to interpret and enforce the law and in disputes like this it all comes down to what was in the contract. I lost the final Payment on a job because the homeowner had "No smoking on the Property" written in the contract. My guy went out to his truck, which was in the driveway had lunch and a smoke. She caught him and fired us. In the contract it said violation of any of these rules will result in termination and forfeiture of all further payments. My argument was that The truck was mine. But the truck was on her property. I lost This and learned the lesson of contracts... I send her a Christmas card every year with the words Thank you


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## Michael Thomas

Docwhitley said:


> People say that all the time but, no matter where you are in the United States a Judge can only enforce what is written in the contract. Verbal discussions are typically thrown out if 1 person disagrees and states they never said that. I have not lost a single case that I have had to bring against people because I am confident in what my contracts state and if my contracts do not cover me... then I do not pursue it is court. The reason most contractors loose in a court of law is that they make it emotional. If you stick to the facts of the contract and object to everything that is not in the contract then the Judge has No way to use "zero Patience" with them. When I am in court the only questions that are allowed are the ones directly related to the contract. Failure to put a time frame into the contract opens up the following questions or statements
> 
> HO- The job was not done as quick as I thought it should be
> Contractor- I am a pro that does this everyday and I am moving at a steady pace.
> 
> In this situation the contractor is considered the more knowledgeable person. It sucks for the Home owner but, it is the truth.
> 
> My contracts have specific dates that each part of the job will be completed and when the other contractors will need to have other parts completed. If another contractor is not finished their part and the HO or GC do not contact me and my plumbers go to the job as scheduled then I bill for 1 hour (I also do a follow up 3 days in advance). I find that having the time line completed keeps the jobs on track.
> 
> I also have flipped 26 houses and only 1 ran over the time frame. So I guess to me it is a tried a proven method all the way down to the checks. I even have gone as far for 1 contractor to write his 3 checks on the day we sign the contracts all dated for the specific dates... HE IS NEVER LATE!
> 
> The good part for both HO and Contractors is that Judges are paid to interpret and enforce the law and in disputes like this it all comes down to what was in the contract. I lost the final Payment on a job because the homeowner had "No smoking on the Property" written in the contract. My guy went out to his truck, which was in the driveway had lunch and a smoke. She caught him and fired us. In the contract it said violation of any of these rules will result in termination and forfeiture of all further payments. My argument was that The truck was mine. But the truck was on her property. I lost This and learned the lesson of contracts... I send her a Christmas card every year with the words Thank you


If you show up in small claims court in Cook County, and attempt to claim (to take an example from the post to which I was responding) that because there was no completion date stated in he contract that you do not have to complete the work in a timely manner, you will get your ears boxed.


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## Docwhitley

Michael Thomas said:


> If you show up in small claims court in Cook County, and attempt to claim (to take an example from the post to which I was responding) that because there was no completion date stated in he contract that you do not have to complete the work in a timely manner, you will get your ears boxed.


 Read back again Mike... With out a Time Line stated then the time line is up to interpretation. As long as the Contractor states that He felt he was moving at a steady pace and that his work is not failing inspections meaning he is doing the work at or above code then the courts would not have any grounds to find against him. Contracts are there to protect BOTH parties. Now it would be no different then if he rushed through the job to complete it and he finished early but had a 1000 mistakes. It would not matter that he finished early just that he did not complete the job as described in the contract. How about this one if you want to argue that point. I have 3 Jobs that total $111590 that I have done the rough in work and had my inspection but the owners have fallen short on money because of the economy... As a Contractor Should I be able to sue them for failure to complete the Job in a timely manner? I mean they are only holding $22000 of my money... I also will state that if they complete the work on my Permit they will need to pay me the full amount plus it voids all of my warranties.

Please understand I have 20 trucks on the road EVERY day for 8-12 hours a day and I also run many Jobs so I am not the typical 1 man operation that shows up to court not knowing what to say or do. I do not loose money when I go to court so i am very methodical. I have 2 Degrees and Choose Plumbing as a Career when my brother needed some help. When he got his Masters License I opened Business and worked under his till I got my license. I now handle all of the Business portion which includes all of the legal issues.

Again to the OP I say grab the contractor a make a time line. It is the only way you will have a chance in Court.


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## Docwhitley

I just was talking to a co worker and he said "Is that similar to what happened to Jim?"

So other scenario... But I will start by saying CONTRACTOR IS A JERK FOR THIS ONE!

Homeowner hired all Subs so when she fired on he waited till the work was almost complete on the house and filed a Lien on the house. We were brought in to repair his work and complete it. 6 months later the HO was still unable to get a Use and Occupancy Permit BECAUSE OF THE LIEN! House is complete but, no one can live there. I heard she is settling him for half of the remaining amount which was like 2000 but she has been paying 6 months of rent!!!


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## operagost

If you think that "once or twice a week, and then for only half a day!" is "a steady pace" when the project is already months behind schedule, then please let me know the name of your firm and all your subs so that I can make sure I don't accidentally hire you.


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## Bud Cline

Surprises me that a guy in pursuit of and receiving "TWO DEGREES" obviously never took a course in spelling or English grammar.:no: Also surprises me that a guy is comfortable with being a defendant and going to court routinely.


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## Docwhitley

My point is not that this contractor is right but, instead that the home owner should pull him up and lock him down to a deadline that has a specific time frame on the job. If there has not been a time line determined and written out the courts will have nothing to base the judgment on. It could be that when the home owner hired him, the home owner was thinking 6 weeks and the contractor was thinking 12. It does not mean either one is wrong unless the time line is written down. Again all of my contracts have time lines written out and specific dates on when the required parts of a job are to be finished. A perfect example of this happened this summer. The client wanted a new tub and had a specific one picked out and said "How long will it take?" My answer was 2 days. He said great and wanted me to start that Monday. The tub was on order and took 8 weeks to get in... Does this mean I was behind on my job?

Again I emphasize that I am not backing up this Contractor- My advice is to the OP question on what I thought she should do and why? My answer is to not threaten court and meet with the contractor to set a specific deadline. My reasoning is that with out this dead line I feel she does not have a leg to stand on it court. 

Bud- I come here to give advice not to have my English and Grammar critiqued. If you would like to be the Grammar police the please let me know and I will be glad to correct your post. I also tend to stay in the post till the end to make sure that the home owner understands what I am saying. I am still waiting for a response from you on how you can apply Kerdi to backer board that is already there take it up the wall and attach tile matching to the tile that is already attached directly to the wall. I will be the first to admit that I use spell check and grammar check on all documents.


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## Docwhitley

operagost said:


> If you think that "once or twice a week, and then for only half a day!" is "a steady pace" when the project is already months behind schedule, then please let me know the name of your firm and all your subs so that I can make sure I don't accidentally hire you.


Trust me when I am on a job then the job is completed on schedule but, I also have the schedule written down and all of the trucks have an outline of every job they are on. My job tickets are something like this
Job name
Start date
Rough in Expected: Completed:
Final- Expected: Completed: 
Payments- First Second Final
Contract Extras


Every job is required to turn one in and every day a Progress sheet is written up on the Job and turned in.

I just think that unfortunately with out a time line the HO will loose in court... It is sad IMHO but I feel this way


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## BobSF

What a colorful thread... thanks for everyone's input. I talked to my lawyer today and we have agreed on a course of action. 

Some of y'all have jumped the gun here. The goal is not to start out threatening a lawsuit, the goal is to stay out of court entirely... every lawyer I've ever worked with has this as the first goal, whenever possible. It's the last resort.

However, talking to a lawyer was the right course of action and I hope together the three of us (or four if he brings on his own counsel) will be able to work this out amiably.


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## Handy Vinny

Bud Cline said:


> Surprises me that a guy in pursuit of and receiving "TWO DEGREES" obviously never took a course in spelling or English grammar.:no: Also surprises me that a guy is comfortable with being a defendant and going to court routinely.


Dear Bud,

Again, you're extremely off-base here, and you're hectoring of "Docwhitley" will _not_ lend any level of seriousness or credibility to your ideas. But thank you for your repeated participation in the thread.

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Dear "Docwhitley,"

Congratulations on your academic and professional successes. In my opinion, more DIYers should strive for second degrees (or first degrees, as the case may be). Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.


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## DangerMouse

Please refrain from insults, rude comments or improper behavior while visiting here.
This is a family oriented, informational forum, not a place to come and argue.

DM


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## Handy Vinny

DangerMouse said:


> Please refrain from insults, rude comments or improper behavior while visiting here.
> This is a family oriented, informational forum, not a place to come and argue.
> 
> DM


I agree with this comment.

Thank you.


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## Bud Cline

> Again, you're extremely off-base here, and you're hectoring of "Docwhitley" will _not_ lend any level of seriousness or credibility to your ideas. But thank you for your repeated participation in the thread.


OK, I apologize but boasting of one's credentials with such obvious inabilities to deliver never did lend credibility to one's words either. I seriously doubt the degrees actually exist. Sorry I once again spoke the truth. I'll try to refrain from being too honest in the future. I doubt that I'm off base at all to tell you the truth but still the apology stands if that'll help you to feel good about your shin kickin' me. I am a better man for it.

As far as *my *credibility...
I also doubt you are the one to judge my credibility so I'll let my participation here stand on its own merits.

And don't call me "Dear"...it makes you sound like a ***.


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## Handy Vinny

Bud Cline said:


> And don't call me "Dear"...it makes you sound like a ***.


Well, I'm glad we were both able to handle this situation like adults.


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## Bud Cline

...just trying to fit in!


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## fungku

Sounds like you hired a company that is a sinking ship.

Main red flag here is the "Cashflow" problems means he's likely robbing Peter to pay Paul.

There should have been a contract with a timeline, an upfront payment and progress payments. The payments should cover what he needs to get done and there should be no cashflow issues unless he is using the money you give him to cover losses on another sinking job.

Hope you got everything worked out without too much of a hassle.


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