# Concrobium or White Vinegar?



## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

10% bleach / 90% water will kill mold spores and just about any other microscopic organism.


----------



## crawdoogie (Nov 9, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about wiping down anything, unless you can see or smell mold on it. Good information here:

http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/environ/homeowner_faq.htm


----------



## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

There is some really questionable info on that site.
Wipe down everything that is non porous with a bleach / water solution or simple dishwashing liquid mixed with water. Then dry it thoroughly before you store it. Discard anything that is porous since it cannot be cleaned effectively. Discard anything organic like paper, wood or leather. Most cleaning agents will have long term adverse effects on items like this. Thoroughly wash clorthing in hot water. Before getting the mold abated, be sure to correct the situation that caused the mold growth in the first place. See the U.S. EPA web site for some realistic cleaning information.


----------



## crawdoogie (Nov 9, 2008)

Unless an item has mold that you can see or smell don't worry about it. If you do see/smell any signs of mold then yes by all means follow the EPA's recommendations taken from their website. 

FUD Alert! Contrary to information posted here earlier, the EPA does NOT recommend using bleach or any other biocide during mold remediation. 

The following excerpt is quoted from: http://www.epa.gov/mold/hiddenmold.html#Cleanup and Biocides

"Biocides are substances that can destroy living organisms. The use of a chemical or biocide that kills organisms such as mold (chlorine bleach, for example) is not recommended as a routine practice during mold cleanup. There may be instances, however, when professional judgment may indicate its use (for example, when immune-compromised individuals are present). In most cases, it is not possible or desirable to sterilize an area; a background level of mold spores will remain - these spores will not grow if the moisture problem has been resolved. If you choose to use disinfectants or biocides, always ventilate the area and exhaust the air to the outdoors. Never mix chlorine bleach solution with other cleaning solutions or detergents that contain ammonia because toxic fumes could be produced."

So if you are worried about "rogue killer spores" don't. 

The following is taken from: http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldresources.html

*Basic Mold Cleanup*

The key to mold control is moisture control. It is important to dry water damaged areas and items within 24-48 hours to prevent mold growth. If mold is a problem in your home, clean up the mold and get rid of the excess water or moisture. Fix leaky plumbing or other sources of water. Wash mold off hard surfaces with detergent and water, and dry completely. Absorbent materials (such as ceiling tiles & carpet) that become moldy may have to be replaced.
*
Ten Things You Should Know About Mold*

1. Potential health effects and symptoms associated with mold exposures include allergic reactions, asthma, and other respiratory complaints. 
*2. There is no practical way to eliminate all mold and mold spores in the indoor environment; the way to control indoor mold growth is to control moisture.*
3. If mold is a problem in your home or school, you must clean up the mold and eliminate sources of moisture.
4. Fix the source of the water problem or leak to prevent mold growth.
5. Reduce indoor humidity (to 30-60% ) to decrease mold growth by: venting bathrooms, dryers, and other moisture-generating sources to the outside; using air conditioners and de-humidifiers; increasing ventilation; and using exhaust fans whenever cooking, dishwashing, and cleaning.
6. Clean and dry any damp or wet building materials and furnishings within 24-48 hours to prevent mold growth.
7. Clean mold off hard surfaces with water and detergent, and dry completely. Absorbent materials such as ceiling tiles, that are moldy, may need to be replaced.
8. Prevent condensation: Reduce the potential for condensation on cold surfaces (i.e., windows, piping, exterior walls, roof, or floors) by adding insulation.
9. In areas where there is a perpetual moisture problem, do not install carpeting (i.e., by drinking fountains, by classroom sinks, or on concrete floors with leaks or frequent condensation).
10. Molds can be found almost anywhere; they can grow on virtually any substance, providing moisture is present. There are molds that can grow on wood, paper, carpet, and foods

Notice that their is nothing listed about cleaning everything in the house, just the objects that have obvious mold on them. But if it gives you piece of mind then by all means clean to your heart's content.

As far as the DoctorFungus web site having questionable info I suggest that you go and look at the sources of their information. Their recommendations are based on information from the EPA, the CDC, American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (www.acgih.org) to name a few. The mold remediation recommendations on DoctorFungus are taken directly from the EPA's website. 

Unfortunately a lot of the information put out by the mold remediation industry has become rife with FUD.


----------



## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

You are obviously a trained mold remediator. Can I ask where you received training or certification?


----------



## crawdoogie (Nov 9, 2008)

I earned my BS Microbiology at California State Polytechnic University Pomona 1985. Currently I am a remodeling and renovation contractor in Southern California.

The information that I provided has links to the EPA website as per your recommendation.




EPA: "A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home" - http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/moldguide.html


EPA: "Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings" - http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html
New York City Department of Health – Facts About Mold - http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epimold.shtml
New York City Department of Health - "Guidelines on Assessment and Remediation of Fungi in Indoor Environments" - http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/moldrpt1.shtml


The following is from the NYCDoH website link above:

"Non-porous (e.g., metals, glass, and hard plastics) and semi-porous (e.g., wood, and concrete) materials that are structurally sound and are *visibly moldy* can be cleaned and reused. Cleaning should be done using a detergent solution. Porous materials such as ceiling tiles and insulation, and wallboards with more than a small area of contamination should be removed and discarded. Porous materials (e.g., wallboard, and fabrics) that can be cleaned, can be reused, but should be discarded if possible."

M6, your info was right on except for the bleach in most cases. Plus there is no need to sterilize or dispose of everything in the room/house, just the stuff that have detectable (i.e see or smell) mold on them.

Unless you have a mold allergy or immuned system dysfunction any mold spores in the environment are harmless and no matter how hard you try you can't eliminate them anyway. 

Many mold remediation companies are charging exorbitant amounts because of the fear caused by misinformation in the media and corporate marketing. While it's true that there are cases in which excessive mold in a building has contributed to health problems they are few and far between.


----------



## eis61374 (Oct 4, 2008)

Unfortunately for me the mold was causing me respiratory problems. That's why I figured it was better to wipe everything down & have the place fogged. I'll get reimbursed...................eventually:whistling2:


----------



## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

crawdoogie said:


> I earned my BS Microbiology at California State Polytechnic University Pomona 1985. Currently I am a remodeling and renovation contractor in Southern California.
> 
> The information that I provided has links to the EPA website as per your recommendation.
> 
> ...


Agreed!! Particularly with the last 2 sentences. As clarification. Bleach will kill practically any micro-organism. Most agencies recommend against it because of the potential for mis-use. 10% maximum is all that is needed to be effective. One does need to be aware of all the dangers of using a potent cleaning chemical. Most surfaces can be cleaned with something less potent, such as dishwashing liquid. Something to remember is that some people have allergic reactions to the myco-toxins produced by molds AND some can also react to the components that make up molds. That is why it is important to clean up mold residue after it is killed or while it is being killed. Some folks are reactant to the chlorinated gases produced by bleach solutions too. What is NOT normally necessary is a huge investment in professional cleaning and remediation.


----------

