# Exterior Storm Windows



## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

Howdy all - looking for some advice.
My house and windows are 35 years old. Windows themselves are double-hung and are in good shape.

Storm windows are another matter.
Storm windows are exterior, consist of 2 panes, a lower and upper along with a lower screen. Storm windows are held in place by plastic type channels on bottom, top and sides. Channels are attached to wood frame. The upper pane is stationary and bottom pane slides up to open to expose screen in summer.

Problem is the channels.

They are old and brittle and break in pieces if touched, and have a few broken out spaces in them. On some windows the bottom channel is completely gone.

Anyone else have this problem and have any ideas what to do about these crappy channels? No idea who mfg these windows.

Can't do pics right now so hope above is clear enough.


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## mt999999 (Jan 26, 2013)

Fins59 said:


> Howdy all - looking for some advice.
> My house and windows are 35 years old. Windows themselves are double-hung and are in good shape.
> 
> Storm windows are another matter.
> ...


Sounds like 2-track storm windows, as opposed to more expensive ones that have three tracks so both glass panes and the screen can slide freely up or down. It isn't worth trying to replace the channels or tracks, they are likely beyond their usable lifespan and probably don't have good weatherstriping anymore to seal out drafts. Do you have wooden shash windows with single panes of glass? Your best (and most efficient) option is to replace the storm windows entirely with more modern, attractive three track ones. It makes for a perfect opprotunity to clean the actual windows well, replace old, cracked, putty/glazing on them, and then repaint them before installing new storms.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Or install more efficient replacement windows and not need the strorms at all.


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## mt999999 (Jan 26, 2013)

joecaption said:


> Or install more efficient replacement windows and not need the strorms at all.


That would cost alot more, not to mention more labor. If you are talking about installing vinyl windows, that kills the style of the look of wood on the interior as well. New wooden windows are more expensive. I believe that weatherstripped wooden windows with storm windows installed are more efficient than new double pane windows, not to mention that they last longer than newer ones. It would take over a decade to recoupe the savings on new windows as well.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Or install more efficient replacement windows and not need the strorms at all.


sure, not "need" them. but they do help. even a super thin piece of plastic helps.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

joecaption said:


> Or install more efficient replacement windows and not need the storms at all.


Storms are always good to have. We have Double pane windows, but still close the storms, to help create a air pocket, to help also keep out convection transfer into the house. The storms work great for both heating & cooling, because they help to keep the house warm in the Winter, and cool in the Summer.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

Testing (I typed out a couple replies and couldn't post them and lost them so am testing first this time)


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

I guess now it's working.
Anyway, thanks for the replys. To answer a few questions....I do have single pane, wooden sash, double hung windows with 2-track storm windows.

Don't want to put in new windows at this time and it's probably not cost worthy to install new storm windows on these 35 year old windows even though windows are good. Glazing and sash are ok.

So trying to be a true DIYER, I'm going to try and replace the channel tracks. The storm window wooden frames are attached by 2 interior latches and can be removed easily. In fact I have one out and laying on my workbench right now (my workbench surface is 4'x8' so have plenty of room).

I was mulling around a few ideas and went down to the local home center store and checked out some materials. Might have come up with something. I think tomorrow I will do some "hands on" experimenting. I might even do some tonight.

I would think that this would be a common problem on these older "plastic" track channel storm windows, and there's got to be a way to fix, other than new windows.

Looks like this is a good web site...glad I found it.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You are going to be best to do a room at a time, unless you can get a break on doing all of the windows in the home, with retro-fit windows, that fit within the existing frames. What part of Wisconsin do you live in?


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## mt999999 (Jan 26, 2013)

Fins59 said:


> I guess now it's working.
> Anyway, thanks for the replys. To answer a few questions....I do have single pane, wooden sash, double hung windows with 2-track storm windows.
> 
> Don't want to put in new windows at this time and it's probably not cost worthy to install new storm windows on these 35 year old windows even though windows are good. Glazing and sash are ok.
> ...


New storm windows can be put over any wooden windows. Just because they are 35 years old doesn't mean they aren't worth new storms. I have seen how many times where people with 100 plus year old windows installed new storms to prolong the old windows' life. Most higher quality storm windows are constructed of solid aluminum, including the tracks, and they don't develop the issue you are having. I have never heard of people installing new tracks instead of replacing old storm windows, but if that's what you want to do, more power to you! I would suggest trying to replace the old weatherstripping on the storms if you intend on keeping them, especially around the moveable pane. This way, they will be more efficient and less drafty. Keep us informed on how it goes, and what route you take.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

mt999999 said:


> I believe that weatherstripped wooden windows with storm windows installed are more efficient than new double pane windows, not to mention that they last longer than newer ones.


A good quality replacement window with all of today's common options (low e, double or triple pane glass, etc) will outperform and old single pane/storm combo 10 out of 10 times. What is a valid concern though is whether or not the added cost justifies the difference in performance. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. New exterior storms are certainly a viable option when the prime window unit is still in good shape.

Regarding a point made earlier about storms over insulated glass in the summer, this can be a sketchy area, particularly when low-e coatings are involved. Excessive heat build up can occur and lead to various problems, not the least of which is voiding the warranty on newer windows... At the very least, the storm should be vented at the top.

Fins, sounds like you are in a place where you don't have new windows in the budget, and you existing windows are not in good enough shape to invest in new storms. If that is the case, it sounds like you are on the right track (no pun intended) to prolong these for a little bit longer. Kudos to you if you have already found something, otherwise I'd recommend taking one of the units to a local glass shop (not a window company) and see what they have. :thumbsup:


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Fins59 said:


> I do have single pane, wooden sash, double hung windows with 2-track storm windows. .. Don't want to put in new windows at this time and it's probably not cost worthy to install new storm windows
> 
> So trying to be a true DIYER, I'm going to try and replace the channel tracks.


OK... Have you found a source for the track?
Even the best DIY'er will needs parts to work with sometimes.


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## mt999999 (Jan 26, 2013)

Everyone that posted here ought to read this page. Don't mean to sound like a living advertisement, but it's very informative. Check it out!

http://oldhouseguy.com/windows.php


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Just go out and buy some new storm windows. There not big money. I have storm windows on my house. I installed new ones about 5 years ago.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> You are going to be best to do a room at a time, unless you can get a break on doing all of the windows in the home, with retro-fit windows, that fit within the existing frames. What part of Wisconsin do you live in?


 gregzoll - I live in the Wausau area, center of state, a little bit north.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Fins59 -All the films, plastic, fancy gas and storm windows do nothing to stop the radiant heat loss at night in the winter (like Wausau has). A barrier that cuts off the radiant heat loss does wonders at night.

Even a ugly sheet or drapes(semi ugly) does wonders on heat loss works well. I have 2 - 7'+ sliders facing north in MN and I have aluminum mini-blinds on each one of them and close them from almost clear (bird watching is my hobbies) to go to the shut/closed position from the open position and the temperature inside goes up at night (thermostat is one floor above) and the cats sleep on the floor at night in a walk-out.

Dick


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Fins59 said:


> gregzoll - I live in the Wausau area, center of state, a little bit north.


I would not call that Center. More like Northern part of the state. Go through there all of the time, when we head up to Land O'Lakes, where my In laws live.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

Got one window done. Just spent probably an hour telling how I did it and when hitting "submit reply", I get a msg saying I'm not logged in, not authorized, etc. and lose my entire post. frustrating.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

concretemasonry said:


> Fins59 -All the films, plastic, fancy gas and storm windows do nothing to stop the radiant heat loss at night in the winter (like Wausau has). A barrier that cuts off the radiant heat loss does wonders at night.
> 
> Even a ugly sheet or drapes(semi ugly) does wonders on heat loss works well. I have 2 - 7'+ sliders facing north in MN and I have aluminum mini-blinds on each one of them and close them from almost clear (bird watching is my hobbies) to go to the shut/closed position from the open position and the temperature inside goes up at night (thermostat is one floor above) and the cats sleep on the floor at night in a walk-out.
> 
> Dick


I hear ya, Dick. Like I posted above, I think I got it solved.
Speak about bird watching. I recently built 6 bird feeders. Gave some to my kids. Going to make about 10 more.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Happens if you have a third party software that purges cookies, or the cookie prematurely dies. Some compose their messages in Wordpad, or even something like Open Office or Microsoft office, then past it into a post.

Also, you can cross post over to Project showcase on something like this, especially if you are going to make a diary of redoing the house. Right now I am help a friend of ours with some projects, due to her boyfriend bailed on her for more than I want to get into. I figured, that since I am holding off on our Kitchen, and have nothing that I can do, until I get the cabinets, I figured that I would work on her place, helping her out.

What you learn from doing on your own, you can assist others locally or even from afar, especially with this place.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

Going to try again. Maybe previous post was too long?? Will try and shorten this one up.
Anyway, am sitting here drinking a cold one in celebration. Got one window done. New channels all around. Cost - about $4.

This is what I did:

Side Channels - Used Vinyl siding J-channel. Cut 2 pieces to proper length. Trimmed off rounded edge and nail fin edge, and ended up with a perfect U channel. Trimmed lower inside of pieces to permit lower window to be removed (used old pieces as pattern)

Top Channel - Found that a piece of dry wall vinyl channel is perfect. 

Lower Channel - This was tricky, but found that a piece of molding from those suspended ceiling panels works perfect. A little trimming on one edge was required.

Attached new channels to wooden frame with 1" small nails with a slight head. Trimmed and cut channels with my trusty cheapo HF oscillating tool, and used band saw a little. Clamped J-channel in my Rockwell Jaw Horse for easy trimming. Had time to sand and give wooden frame 2 coats of primer. Put window back in tonight. Can't feel any drafts. I'm a 24/7 wood burner so a little outside air doesn't hurt, probably helps.
Gotta get some before and after pics on here....this really worked slick.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Happens if you have a third party software that purges cookies, or the cookie prematurely dies. Some compose their messages in Wordpad, or even something like Open Office or Microsoft office, then past it into a post.
> 
> Also, you can cross post over to Project showcase on something like this, especially if you are going to make a diary of redoing the house. Right now I am help a friend of ours with some projects, due to her boyfriend bailed on her for more than I want to get into. I figured, that since I am holding off on our Kitchen, and have nothing that I can do, until I get the cabinets, I figured that I would work on her place, helping her out.
> 
> What you learn from doing on your own, you can assist others locally or even from afar, especially with this place.


 I see it worked this time.

third party software - purges cookies - cookie dies - wordpad - Thats all greek to me Greg But I'm trying. 
Speaking of kitchen remodeling.....just last night my wife was talking about me taking out the wall between the kitchen and dining room, to make it a more open concept. It's non-load bearing, gotta move some electrical and stuff but doesn't look too bad.

Pretty country up around Land-o-Lakes. I used to have a FedEx route up there kind of close - I did Arbor Vitae, Manitowish Waters, Mercer, Winchester, Presque Isle, Boulder Junction. Based out of Wausau, left Wausau about 9AM, did all that area, and had to be back in Wausau by 6:45PM to catch aircraft with outgoing freight. Loved it.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You and ShumakerScott need to get together. He has done stuff like you just did, to do things in his place http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/german-house-rebuild-23424-new-post/ that you would never think of doing with some of the materials like you used.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> You and ShumakerScott need to get together. He has done stuff like you just did, to do things in his place http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/german-house-rebuild-23424-new-post/ that you would never think of doing with some of the materials like you used.


 I'll check him out.
What kind of gave me the idea of J-channel is I used other vinyl siding stuff in past. Like I used "under sill trim" for framing around a acrylic glass pane that I used in a garden shed. That acrylic (or plexi-glass) tucks tightly into that under sill trim. Just trim off the nailing fin, miter corners, and you have a nice vinyl frame.
Also one time my wife brought home some item she paid around $10-$15 bucks for. It is used to put under your sofa cushions for support if you feel they are saggy or soft. This item looked just like vinyl siding. I had her take them back and I took a few scrap pieces of siding I had left over (I don't throw anything away) cut them to proper size, snapped them together and put them under seat cushions and they work same as that store product.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

The stuff under the sofa cushions, actually reminds me of the skirting for around trailers. Just a heavier grade than what you see around most of them.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

gregzoll -

I just think of Wausau as the center of the state since all my relatives live north of there and I go straight east through there to Green Bush.

The thread by Scott Shumaker is a great one to follow going from a 300 year old burned out or rotted home into modern one with all of the high tech DIY things and material is great. It is good blend of the old with the new. - I sent him some wine corks and beer bottle caps to use in the new second story man-cave. Beware it will take you a long time (hours) to follow the thread and see the photos.

Dick


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

concretemasonry said:


> Fins59 -All the films, plastic, fancy gas and storm windows do nothing to stop the radiant heat loss at night in the winter (like Wausau has). A barrier that cuts off the radiant heat loss does wonders at night.


 
Low emissivity or LowE coatings were developed to block radiant heat loss (or gain - depending on the coating), and they do it very well. 

Dual or triple silver softcoats, for example, block over 95% of radiant heat loss while single silver softcoat and the better hardcoats block over 90% of radiant heat loss at 70° indoor versus 0° outdoor temperatures.

You are absolutely correct that a barrier that cuts off radiant heat loss at night does wonders for keeping a home warmer.


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## Fins59 (Dec 8, 2012)

concretemasonry said:


> gregzoll -
> 
> I just think of Wausau as the center of the state since all my relatives live north of there and I go straight east through there to Green Bush.
> 
> ...


 I think Wausau is referred to as North Central Wisconsin by the media. I don't really think of it as North because we all go "Up North" on vacations or weekends. In my mind Tomahawk is kind of the starting point for North. I had to google Green Bush. Have never heard of it before.

I started reading Scott Shumaker thread. wow. I just completed a 30'x48' detached garage by myself (had help with concrete slab and trusses) and thought I accomplished something, but his project is, I guess you'd call amazing.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

+1 to oberon's post. Well said.


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