# Ceiling still leaking after new roof.



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

when I first started roofing in 1979 second layers were very common in my area (SE Michigan).
Now days second layers seem to have fallen out of favor mostly. 
In either case we always installed new step flashing.

Another possibility per the picture is if aluminum or vinyl siding runs too tightly in to the J channel sometimes water that gets in the J channel can catch the back side of the siding and run horizontally behind the siding till it builds up and drops. At that point it can sometimes be behind the step flashing.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for your response... I did a lot of research before deciding on the second layer... seems like a lot of different opinions, some even say it's better because you have a backup layer of shingles underneath. In any event, it was the cheaper option and since no one could tell me it was any worse than a tear-off, I figured I'd go for it. 

If it is the second possibility (water getting up via the backside of the siding), any suggestions on what to do? I really want to fix this hole in my ceiling!


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like your J-channel is on the outside of the siding. It needs to be under it


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

The picture is not my house... just a representation of what my house looks like.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Can you get some real pictures?

Bud


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Yes, I'll post them when I get home.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

If its not a step flash failure here is a representation of my other thought. 
If they put a second layer on there is a chance they never bothered with new step flashing. That is a separate disaster that will be slow in developing and may be separate from your current leak.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If someone tells me the roof is already leaking then no way would I have done a roof over, how would you figure out why it's leaking and if there's any sheathing damage without removing the shingles?
Now to figure out where the leak is two layers of shingles have to be removed at least, siding may also have to be popped loose.
J molding should never been installed tight to the shingles.


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

If all they did was butt the new shingles to the sidewall over the old, they did nothing to slow the leak down.
The siding will need to be removed or cut back, and the flashings replaced properly. Done properly, a second layer is ok but the flashings need to be dealt with correctly.
The guys you hired probably wouldn't have fixed the flashings even if they stripped it.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

PatChap said:


> If all they did was butt the new shingles to the sidewall over the old, they did nothing to slow the leak down.
> The siding will need to be removed or cut back, and the flashings replaced properly. Done properly, a second layer is ok but the flashings need to be dealt with correctly.
> The guys you hired probably wouldn't have fixed the flashings even if they stripped it.


Bingo.

They wall needed to come up and off as well as the original layer. I am always amazed on roof overs in general, but a roof over on a job where you have a sidewall leak is silly. 

Post up some pics of your home with some close up and that will help with more feedback, but the leak is mostly likely coming from an improper connection where the wall meets the roof.


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## jimn (Nov 13, 2010)

I would never do a second layer. You can't inspect the roofing deck for issues, flashing , ice/water shields etc. you can run into thickness around siding etc.. Others have given you good advice of where to look but do try to get some pictures.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for all of the responses. I called the roofer and he said he checked the step flashing the last time he was out and it was fine. He suggested it was a problem with the siding. I don't see how that can be since the siding is solid (no seams) the entire way up to the second floor roof. 

Here's a picture of my actual house. The red arrows show were I sprayed the water. The hole in the ceiling is directly below the area where the arrows are shown. 

The roofer is coming out tomorrow at 4 p.m. to look at the issue. I don's see how the step flashing can be intact if water is getting in when I spray the hose there. 

How would this problem be fixed? Would they have to remove all of the siding and the shingles?


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Here's a cropped version of the picture... hopefully it's more legible. It seems like the system is downsizing the original.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Ok... so the roofers came back yesterday afternoon. On Saturday, I sprayed the water in the area of the red arrows and it almost IMMEDIATELY started SUBSTANTIALLY leaking from the existing hole in my ceiling. 

Yesterday, I sprayed and sprayed and sprayed and the damn thing never leaked. They took the hose up on the roof and sprayed where the arrows are and a bunch of other places and not a freak-in drop! I really don't get it. They were there for more than an hour and checked the siding, the flashing, etc., and found no problems. The guy who did that area of the roof came too and said that he installed the step flashing himself. 

I really don't understand how on Saturday it can leak like a siv, but then on Wednesday, it doesn't leak at all. 

At this point, I'm stuck. I cannot fix the ceiling until the leak is fixed, but I can't fix the leak because I can't figure out where it's coming from.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Why hasn't anyone just removed the siding at this point to complete the inspection? It isn't hard.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

I suppose that's the next step... the problem is I'm afraid of heights, so I'll have to hire someone to do it.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

The pros here can correct me, but to install step flashing that siding should have come part way off and the J channel removed. New shingles installed and new step flashing against the exposed sheathing on the side then the house wrap brought back into place over the new step flashing and then the siding re-installed. 

Since there was a known leak problem, maybe some Ice and water shield over the top of the steps. 

I see no indication that they pulled the siding and they didn't state it.

Bud


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Ler0y Jenkins said:


> I suppose that's the next step... the problem is I'm afraid of heights, so I'll have to hire someone to do it.


I am talking about the professionals that you hired...not you.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

before I removed the sideing I would 
A. confirm step flashing is there ...or not
B. look for a missing step flash.

I could do that in about 8-10 minutes. 

If A and B pass the test I would run water just in the J channel to see if I can make it leak.
Then I would remove siding after that.


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## hotrod351 (Jun 15, 2012)

if the roofer is licensed then he has to figure it out and fix it. as for re-roof over old shingles, Ive done it many many times with no problem at all. in fact the Owens Corning dimensional shingles i use have the instructions right on the wrapper on how to. every one doesn't have the extra cash to pay for a tear off, h*ll most don't even have the money for the roof period.


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## Energyrater (Dec 11, 2009)

Obviously there is a legitimate leak somewhere but the reason that it leaks when you spray it upward from the ground as opposed to the contractor spraying it downward from above MAY be because you are directing the water in a way the the flashing/shingling system isn't designed to shed water (by gravity and a shingle style layering of the various components of the wall assembly)


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