# Which tile shower pan system to use?



## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

I'm getting ready to redo our bathroom and would like to have a tiled shower pan floor using river rocks the shower size is 33x42. Going to have frameless glass shower doors. After searching around, I see Schluster which more involving but only cost about $500 for the kit and then there's Wedi which I was quoted $1100 for the kit plus a few other items which will come out closer to $1300. 

Are there any other systems out there you can recommend for a DIYer?


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

I like and only used the Kerdi system the past 10 years. Ditra installations and Kerdi water-tight showers were my specialty. Ask any question, I think I can handle it, if not there's several others here that can help, and it's free right now.:biggrin2: 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

Is there a standard on how wide the curbs are? the included curbs are 4.5" by the time I add the 1/4 tiles, I'll be 5" wide. Can I trim it down by an inch? 

My other concern is the foam curbs. I'll be having frameless glass shower doors. I don't know how well it can support the weight of the door and say if my kids lean on it or something. 

Last question, I see the kits come with a squared drain, are the round drain an optional item only? But the squared drain might be easier to tile with.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

dannie said:


> Is there a standard on how wide the curbs are? the included curbs are 4.5" by the time I add the 1/4 tiles, I'll be 5" wide. Can I trim it down by an inch?


The curb is 4.5" cuz that's the width it's supposed to be....the standard thickness of walls so everything flows nice.

In the end it'll be wider than 5", more like 5 ¼" or wider. Cut it down and you'll make it weaker.

The foam curb and tray, (if you're using a tray), is strong and will not compress when the tiles are set. We drove a hi-lo over a pan to test it while at one of the workshops. You're confusing point load as compared to a load spread out over a large area. Follow directions and it'll work exactly as they say. 

You want a square drain grate for obvious reasons.:vs_bulb:

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

Ok you got me, I'm ordering a kit! I'll be back with more questions I'm sure.


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

one more question, for a 33x42 shower, do I want the 48x48 center drain or the 32x60 shower drain kit? 48x48 seems to be a little more expensive. 

I assume the 32x60 is the pan size plus the 4.5" curb which makes it 36.5 before tilling? 

My total shower size is 33x42 curbs included. I do have room to make it slightly wider but not longer.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

You cut the tray to fit your space. If it's short on one side, you fill with deck mud. How about you post a pic of the area? Center drain? Post your approx. location in your profile too, it'll come in handy before we're done. 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

Here you go...

Notice the door to the right, it will be removed and the wall blown out to open up the "shower room" to the rest of the bathroom as seen in the end result sketch. 

Also, the price for the niche seems outrageous. Do you build your own or bit the bullet for it?

























and hopefully once done....


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

Thanks for the pic. Gee.......I have no idea why anyone would want to change that!:biggrin2:

Is this on a slab? Formed niches cost how much.......$40-65? What have you seen? I used to have to charge $175-250 to install and tile one, which actually was too cheap. Buy a pre-made one unless you want something weird. 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

This bathroom is the master bed upstair bath that's why I'm nervous of doing this any leaks will mean Im remodeling downstairs as well which I just did. LOL


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

Unless you have no skills and don't bother to understand what to do, you can make Swiss Cheese waterproof with Kerdi. It's waterproof and water tight. 

Yes, that's a Kerdi cooler made with a regular cardboard box. I think it was built in '01, pic taken in late '09. It's probably still in good shape. Call Schluter and ask.:biggrin2: 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

couple more questions..

When putting the kerdi the wall, how high should I go? I'm tiling up to the ceiling but I guess 5 or 6 ft is enough? 

The 32x60 kit comes with 108sq ft, 

assume I did 6ft high, 3x4 wall takes about 60sq ft plus 12 sq ft shower pan, I have approx 36 sq ft left for part of the bathroom floor...

I've never done an upstairs bathroom before, for my kitchen, I screwed hardibacker on the subfloor then tiled right over it. Do I do the same for the upstairs bathrooms and use the left over to protect the area around the showers only?


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

Schluter would like you to Kerdi up to the showerhead. You can go lower or all the way. Some people do a hybrid to save cuz they think liquid membrane is cheaper. The main thing is the floor with drain and at least up a couple ft. I never bothered to do hybrid to save 50 bucks. 

BTW a 3x4 shower base can not be done with 12 ft. You use the Kerdi Ban too. Kerdi is not for floors. Ditra is for floors. 

Xplain how you plan to install Hardie, step x step. 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

For the kitchen, I laid out the 1/4 wonderboard on the plywood overlapping the plywood seams. Screwed down each board using the appropriate screws according to the spacing on the boards, then tiled right over it....

Thinking about it, I assume this is not going to be appropriate for the bathroom cause I would need to seal the seams of the boards in the bathrooms...

notice I said wonderboard and not becker cause that's what I actually used in the kitchen. Prefer it over becker board since I can handle it by myself.

Would it be too extreme to lay the wonderboard then redgard the whole thing?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sorry for throwing a wrench into the works....but another option is hot mop. It's about half the cost.

This is more of a CA thing. They work well. But not well in the north and NE where you get real cold temps.

Look at any house around you....chances are it's hot mop....especially if it was built 50-60 years ago. The houses in my area are over 65 years old. Most of them have the original hot mop'd shower....and it's still fine. Mine failed because of a water leak in the shower faucets....ruined the wood...floor fell apart....floor of the shower fell out.

It cost me $500 to do two large showers.


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

someone recommended hot mop as well but I don't trust myself with the sloops. :vs_no_no_no:


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

dannieboiz said:


> someone recommended hot mop as well but I don't trust myself with the sloops. :vs_no_no_no:


You don't do the initial slope.....the hot mop guy does.

The mortar bed on top is easy.....same step if hot mop or Kerdi


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

500 for someone to come in and do that hot mop and build it out and everything or did you do it? I'll totally pay someone that to come here and build the shower pan for me and I do the finish work.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

ddawg,

Yes, that's an option on the left coast. But I think you'd want a pro to do that. Plus I think you'd want a real mud-job to install the tiles. 

Dannie,

I didn't see you mention anything about spreading thinset under the Wonderboard. No mention of special alkaline resistant tape on the seams. Did you forget or skip that? Or, were none of the sheets cut in the field? 

You have to tape the joints no matter where it's installed. Wonderboard is backer board. 

Floors do not require waterproofing since you really can't make the room waterproof unless you build it like a shower. Wouldn't hurt though. If that was your intent, I'd go with Ditra instead of backer board though. 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

I did not know that about the seam tape everywhere. If it last me 4 or 5 year on the kitchen floor I'll be ok with it. I needed a reason to rip out the kitchen cabinets that the wife likes so much. LOL That's the only thing that doesn't match with the house but the cabinets were new when we moved in last year so wife didn't feel it was necessary. It's the only traditional style room in the house. Everywhere else we're updating room by one to have a more contemporary style. but that's another story we'll get to next time. 

Doesn't ditra go directly on subfloor with thinset? what happens when u want to replace the tiles next time around?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

dannieboiz said:


> 500 for someone to come in and do that hot mop and build it out and everything or did you do it? I'll totally pay someone that to come here and build the shower pan for me and I do the finish work.


About $250 per shower.

The mortar bed was kinda fun to do. Not at all hard. And for your shower should be easy.


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

seems not many guys do that here but I found a few. Just left them a message already. 

So they build the slope, then hotmop it then we still have to build a mortar bed on top of the hot mop? So you don't tile directly to the hot mop?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

dannieboiz said:


> seems not many guys do that here but I found a few. Just left them a message already.
> 
> So they build the slope, then hotmop it then we still have to build a mortar bed on top of the hot mop? So you don't tile directly to the hot mop?


Nope. Neighbor next door had Kerdi done. The contractor was nice enough to walk me through the steps since I was close to doing my showers. He showed me the proper consistency of the mortar for the bed...and a couple of tricks on how to set the slope.

About the only advantage I see to Kerdi (and the main reason so many use it now) is you can basically do everything in one day. With hot mop....you get it all ready.....schedule the hot mop guy...he comes out, does his thing (maybe an hour or so)...then you schedule the inspector....once he buys it off (pan is full of water and not leaking), you can do your mortar bed.

Doing Kerdi knocks at least one day off the schedule.

Considering that hot mop has been working a lot longer than Kerdi has been used.....I've happy with hot mop.

But note, it is NOT a good choice if it will be exposed to freezing temps. This 'can' cause cracking.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

NO. You're not gonna get the pre-slope for $250 too. You gotta do that as Dawg said. Remember he said it was fun. Yes you then place the deck mud etc. Plus you should do a real mud job over otherwise you're gonna poke holes in the hot mop. 

I think it's a ridiculous system, unless you like the smell of hot tar. 

Jaz


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

Sounds like an excessive amount of work to to really not saving much. I think kerdi is a winner.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

JazMan said:


> NO. You're not gonna get the pre-slope for $250 too. You gotta do that as Dawg said. Remember he said it was fun. Yes you then place the deck mud etc. Plus you should do a real mud job over otherwise you're gonna poke holes in the hot mop.
> 
> I think it's a ridiculous system, unless you like the smell of hot tar.
> 
> Jaz


Interesting read......along with some of your comments. Can't help but think you are 'somewhat' biased. Valid bias? I'll take the 5th on that one.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/hot-mop-showers-vs-waterproofing-systems-130141/


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## dannieboiz (Jul 21, 2015)

See how the curbs on this shower is very low profile. Can this be achieved with kerdi curbs? If not can I use 2x4 to make the curbs and put kerdi over in conjunction with the kerdi pans?


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

You can use lumber or if it's over a slab you can use small blocks or bricks. You can not put Kerdi directly on sawn wood however, use a concrete backer then kerdi. 

Jaz


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## 1acre (Oct 5, 2015)

This is just me, but do your pan with whatever you find to be easiest/cost effective. When I do My master bath, I'll do the mud and pvc thing. The walls, however, i would suggest wedi board over Kerdi. Kerdi was very difficult for me and it was far from perfect. The wedi isn't that much more money and I found it to be exponentially easier to install than Kerdi.


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