# Strange Inside Tire Wear



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I can't figure out how this front tire on our car wore like this, it is only about 1 inch wide strip on the inside edge. I have always kept the tires properly inflated. This tire has make a noise from the first day we put it on, the tire store said nothing was wrong with it. Any suggestions?

By the way, the tire on the passenger side front tire is staring to waer like this one also, it just isn't as bad.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

Toe in is not correct.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Looks to me like it might be rubbing on something. Probably when turning.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Have you had an alignment preformed recently?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Last tire I had a problem like this it was a ball joint issue.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Camber.
What car? Some do not have camber adjustment provision and you have to do camber bolts.
Assuming tire is proper size and is NOT rubbing anywhere?


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

*One Side Wear*
When an *inner or outer rib wears faster than than the rest of the tire*, the need for wheel alignment is indicated. *There is excessive camber in the front suspension*, causing the wheel to lean too much to the inside or outside and putting too much load on one side of the tire. The car may simply need the wheels aligned, but misalignment could be due to sagging springs, worn ball joints, or worn control arm bushings. Because load has a great affect on alignment, be sure the car is loaded the way it's normally driven when you have the wheels aligned; this is particularly important with independent rear suspension cars.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

This is inside tire wear caused by loose front end or misalignment.










The OP's pic shows a tire with the inside corner missing. Maybe rubbing on a spring or fender wall when cornering


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I will check to see if it is rubbing anything, I know it isn't rubbing the strut. By the way, it is a 2000 Nissan Altima. Just from looking, it doesn't look like the tires are tilting at all. For it to wear in just that short of space, the tire would have to be leaning really really heavy. The tire makes noise like a bearing is bad even at a very low speed. 

My thoughts were the belt has bunched up at the edge. I don't think it is toe in because the tires aren't feathered at all. I will check the ball joints and tie rod ends just incase. I will also see if it needs a front end alignment.

I appreciate your help.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Sometimes when people put tires that are wider than the vehicle was designed for they will rub on some part of the frame, or suspension when making sharp turns, Think uie, in a parking lot to turn around.

Pull the tire off, look all around the underneath for a shiny spot that rubs when turning, might be a bolt head, a bracket holding the front bumper, yje steering linkages, many things to look at.

ED


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Op, you did not answer if tires were the proper size.
Also, "looking" at tire does not give much info.
Front end tires are very complex in their movement trajectories. Take driver side tire. turning L it will lean upper part out and turning R will do just the opposite. 
Chances of both tires be factory fabricated like this identically bad are very low.
Hub bearing will cause wobble, what will result in cupping or feathering or otherwise repetitive wear pattern, not even strip across entire tire.
I bet 5 bucks safely you WILL hear it rubbing anywhere. metal is great sound conductor. 
Toyota does not have camber provisions on Camry, which is Altima counterpart. I have no idea how it is on Nissan. But front strut has 2 bolts mount to hub knuckle and, eventually, on Camry, they wear out and camber is gone. It is gone always one way - too much negative, what is caused by weight bearing and sagging springs and strut loosing its hydraulic resistance. So for Camry, I had to install 4 camber bolts and have that aligned at the shop. Camber for those cars is normally 0 degrees. 1 or 2 degrees this way or that way will not be noticed by human eye besides, it changes when car is loaded and you are not in the car when you look at it, right? As when you load car, camber negative increases. 
Ask you this. Is that a driver side tire? 
Again, anything in tie rods and hub bearing will result in feathering and cupping, not in this. Too even.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> Op, you did not answer if tires were the proper size.
> Also, "looking" at tire does not give much info.
> Front end tires are very complex in their movement trajectories. Take driver side tire. turning L it will lean upper part out and turning R will do just the opposite.
> Chances of both tires be factory fabricated like this identically bad are very low.
> ...


ukrkoz, sorry I didn't say if tires were right size, I assume they are, we have only had two sets put on and pretty well left it up to the tire people to put the right size on, I really never gave it a thought. I will have the front end checked to see if it is in alignment before I put new tires on soon. Thank you for the help.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Of course. 
Ask them to check for hub bearing and control arm play. But, like I said - anything in that realm results in UNEVEN wear. 
Let us know. I am curious who's opinion is correct.
Last but not least. You do rotate tires regularly?
Even worse.
Nissan had issues with some models build resulting in unusual and fast tire wear.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

*Published on Feb 25, 2015*
Most Nissan & Infiniti models do not have any camber adjustments on the front of the vehicle that can be set and the result is excessive tire wear of one form or another.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz, I really appreciate the video, that explains a lot. I am ashamed to say we have never rotated the tires but we will from now on. 

I looked in the wheel well and the tire isn't rubbing on anything, it is just worn badly and the drivers side is worse than the passenger side. If I rotate the tires when there is the first sign of wear, that should extend the tire life a good deal. Then when I see wear on those tires I can have the two front tires taken off the rims and turned around so the outside of the tire will be on the inside, but I will have to take the drivers side and put it on the other side, that way the tires won't be changing the direction of rotation.

I will take the car and have the front end components checked as well as the tow in. I will let you know what I find out. Thanks again.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Quote from above: when I see wear on those tires I can have the two front tires taken off the rims and turned around so the outside of the tire will be on the inside, but I will have to take the drivers side and put it on the other side, 


Do one or the other, but not both, if you do you will be putting the wear back on the inside.

And radial tires do get a set in them, and will bump for a few weeks before getting set to rotate the opposire direction.

Seems weird to a lot of people, but it's factual.

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Quote from above: when I see wear on those tires I can have the two front tires taken off the rims and turned around so the outside of the tire will be on the inside, but I will have to take the drivers side and put it on the other side,
> 
> 
> Do one or the other, but not both, if you do you will be putting the wear back on the inside.
> ...


Ed, maybe I am not thinking right or I didn't explain it the way I meant for the tires to be. I want to take the tire off the rim on the drivers side and put it back on that same rim, but with the inside of the tire on the outside now. If I were to put that tire back on the drivers side, the tire would rotate in the opposite direction than it originally did, right? (I don't want the tires to rotate opposite from what they did) So I will do the passenger side the same way and put the passenger tire and rim on the drivers side, and the drivers side tire on the passenger side. That way both tires will not be rotating in a new direction and the worn part will be on the outside of the tire not on the inside. Am I right or am I thinking wrong?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

BigJim said:


> I can't figure out how this front tire on our car wore like this, it is only about 1 inch wide strip on the inside edge. I have always kept the tires properly inflated. This tire has make a noise from the first day we put it on, the tire store said nothing was wrong with it. Any suggestions?
> 
> By the way, the tire on the passenger side front tire is staring to waer like this one also, it just isn't as bad.


I have been aligning vehicles for 40 years. When I see a tire like that, it's rubbing on something. Pull tire off and look around. What ever is doing will show its shiny self. Tire shop will put on a wrong size so they can keep your money. Check your front end for slack. That almost looks like it's rubbing on cornering, meaning when you are turning or going around a turn in the road as the tire will lean some. Look for the shiny spots where the tire turns back and forth under the car with the wheel off.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> I have been aligning vehicles for 40 years. When I see a tire like that, it's rubbing on something. Pull tire off and look around. What ever is doing will show its shiny self. Tire shop will put on a wrong size so they can keep your money. Check your front end for slack. That almost looks like it's rubbing on cornering, meaning when you are turning or going around a turn in the road as the tire will lean some. Look for the shiny spots where the tire turns back and forth under the car with the wheel off.:vs_cool:


Thanks Bb, I will pull the wheel back off and take another look. It is raining here right now so I will have to wait a little while. Thanks again.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Ed, maybe I am not thinking right or I didn't explain it the way I meant for the tires to be. I want to take the tire off the rim on the drivers side and put it back on that same rim, but with the inside of the tire on the outside now. If I were to put that tire back on the drivers side, the tire would rotate in the opposite direction than it originally did, right? (I don't want the tires to rotate opposite from what they did) So I will do the passenger side the same way and put the passenger tire and rim on the drivers side, and the drivers side tire on the passenger side. That way both tires will not be rotating in a new direction and the worn part will be on the outside of the tire not on the inside. Am I right or am I thinking wrong?


You won't need to turn the tires over, just put them on the opposite side wheel, that moves the inside drivers to the outside passengers side, and the inside passengers to the outside drivers.

That way you don't need to worry about the rotation direction, it stays the same.

ED


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Regarding rotation, are we even sure this tire is still safe to drive? To me it likes a fair chunk of the tire is gone. If I were to run it, I'd probably want it on the back.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Yodaman said:


> Regarding rotation, are we even sure this tire is still safe to drive? To me it likes a fair chunk of the tire is gone. If I were to run it, I'd probably want it on the back.


Oh no, we are for sure buying new tires, at least for the front right now, the rear are still fairly good. I appreciate your concern.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

I normally cross rotate tires. Front to back. That changes side and prolongs tire life as rear is always set to high camber due to independent suspension and stability necessity. Drive behind most cars and pay attention - all rear tires lean inward.
Unless you per factory have larger tires in the rear or directional tires, then you are screwed and you have to dismount and remount them every time.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

BigJim said:


> ukrkoz, I really appreciate the video, that explains a lot. I am ashamed to say we have never rotated the tires but we will from now on.
> 
> I looked in the wheel well and the tire isn't rubbing on anything, it is just worn badly and the drivers side is worse than the passenger side. If I rotate the tires when there is the first sign of wear, that should extend the tire life a good deal. Then when I see wear on those tires I can have the two front tires taken off the rims and turned around so the outside of the tire will be on the inside, but I will have to take the drivers side and put it on the other side, that way the tires won't be changing the direction of rotation.
> 
> I will take the car and have the front end components checked as well as the tow in. I will let you know what I find out. Thanks again.


Certainly. ZR was the Nissan that had issues with premature tire wear but it gives good idea about manufacturer philosophy. 
What surprises me more, is how out of all Toyota ended not having camber provisions.
Like I said, you WILL hear tire rubbing on undercarriage. it's hell of ruckus, been there.
Didn't I say that driver side will be worn more? Cuz it is more loaded than pass side normally?
So you likely have sagging springs, shocks AND no camber adjustment. And here you are.
Btw, I just bought a rebuilt truck that was towed to auction site on all four. Bumper was rubbing on pass side tire outside. You want me to go take pic of it or you will take my word that rubbing looks nothing like what you have? It's chunks ripped out of lugs outer edges. Looks like someone chewed unevenly through rubber. None of this smooth channel.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz said:


> Certainly. ZR was the Nissan that had issues with premature tire wear but it gives good idea about manufacturer philosophy.
> What surprises me more, is how out of all Toyota ended not having camber provisions.
> Like I said, you WILL hear tire rubbing on undercarriage. it's hell of ruckus, been there.
> Didn't I say that driver side will be worn more? Cuz it is more loaded than pass side normally?
> ...


This may be a stupid question but how do I tell if the tires are none reverse rotation tires? 

Hopefully it doesn't rain tomorrow so I can do some more checking. I did look again to see if I could see a sign of the tire rubbing but I just can't see any place the tire is rubbing. There isn't a noise that sounds like a tire rubbing, it does have a sound like a bearing going bad, even at very low speed.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If a bearing is bad enough to cause wear of that magnitude, after a drive at turnpike speeds it should be hot as hell compared to the bearing on the opposite side.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

The stock tire size should be shown on a sticker in the door jamb or on the back of the glove box cover.

You can also get rubbing if someone put custom wheels on the vehicle that have the wrong offset, in your case it would be offset so it sits deeper in the wheel opening than the manufacturer designed.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> If a bearing is bad enough to cause wear of that magnitude, after a drive at turnpike speeds it should be hot as hell compared to the bearing on the opposite side.


SS, it isn't a bad bearing, I have checked that out, the bearings are fine, no discoloration, no slack or pits, it just kinda sounds like a bad bearing would.

Thanks Chuck, I will sure check to see if these are stock size tires. I know there are no spacers or different rims, we bought the car new, and even it being a 2000 it only has 135,000 on it.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Directional tires have an arrow on the side wall pointing to the direction they are made to rotate.:vs_cool:


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Brainbucket said:


> Directional tires have an arrow on the side wall pointing to the direction they are made to rotate.:vs_cool:


I've warned my wife about backing up with those kind of tires but the warning just goes in one ear and zooms right out the other.:biggrin2:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I've warned my wife about backing up with those kind of tires but the warning just goes in one ear and zooms right out the other.:biggrin2:


:biggrin2:

Thanks BB, I didn't know that, I just thought all steel belted tires were none reversible.

It is still raining again today so ...


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I've warned my wife about backing up with those kind of tires but the warning just goes in one ear and zooms right out the other.:biggrin2:


When you put it in reverse, the arrow turns around.:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
Tires now-a-days can be put on and then reversed on rotation is ok. When radials first came out, you had to make sure you put them in the direction they came off or they would separate or start pulling because the belt slipped. They have came a long way since then. Unless they are directional tires, they can be put on anywhere on the car. I like to take the rear and X the tires to the front and take the front straight back to the rear on rotation. Generally if a tire develops a pull, it's either a hole was introduced to the tire and water or derbies got in there and then the tire separates or the belt will slip. Alignment is a cause of tire pull as well. If not true, it will cause the belt to slip. But if you want to keep the tire going the same direction, that's ok also. Tell me year, make and model and I will tell you your stock tire size.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I couldn't find an arrow on this one, but it was still inflated so I not too concerned about it.:surprise: A 4 wheel trailer is impossible to back up anyway.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> A 4 wheel trailer is impossible to back up anyway.


Only nearly impossible. 
There are some drivers that can back a set of doubles.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Oso954 said:


> Only nearly impossible.
> There are some drivers that can back a set of doubles.


Yep. I did that. Learned on 2 hay wagons hooked up. The key is to begin with them straight for me anyways.:vs_snail:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Bb, I looked the stock size online and ordered two Cooper tires for Friday, they are going to check out the front end also.

SS, that looks like an old model T wheel, it has seen it's better days for sure.

I tried to back a cotton wagon a few years back, that is one thing I could not do.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I had new front tires put on the car today and had the front end and rear aligned, they were out a little but not much. There was nothing wore out and the tire was not rubbing anywhere. The mechanic said the worn place was because the tires were not rotated. He frowned on cross rotating, I don't know why though.

I did see one of the rear tires is scalloped slightly on the inside. I still don't go along with the front worn tire being because I didn't rotate the tires. To me, that area of the tire had to be touching the road to wear and the only thing I can think of is the steel belts had moved over to the side and made a hard spot and left the rest of the tire softer so it didn't wear like the 1 inch strip did. I may be wrong but that is my thoughts. 

The noise did go away in the front end with the new tires though.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Good. 
Mind sharing the alignment print out?
Cross rotating is like 3000 oil changes. It was big no no in olden days for olden tires. Some stuck in that route.
Your tires look pretty modern to me, cross rotate. 
Are you even sure your tires have steel belts? Not nylon?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ukrkoz I didn't get the print out, sorry.

I didn't think they still made nylon tires. How would I know which the tires are? The old tires were made 2013. I got Cooper tires but don't know which one, I will look tomorrow and see what they are. I will also look to see if I see and arrow on the tires.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Ahh, what a miss... i was curious.

_*Fabric/Steel Cord Preparation*_
_Because tires have to carry heavy loads, steel and fabric cords are used in the construction to reinforce the rubber compound and provide strength. Among those materials suitable for the tire application: c*otton, rayon, polyester, steel, fiberglass, and aramid.*_
_*Fabric cord*
Fabric cord quality is based on its strength, stretch, shrinkage, and elasticity. The yarn used is first twisted, and then two or more spools of yarn are twisted into a cord. Before shipping the cord to the tire factory, the manufacturer pre-treats the cord and applies an adhesive to promote good bonding with the rubber. The temperature, humidity, and tension control are critical before the fabric cords are calendered with rubber compound. For this reason, fabric cord is kept in a temperature-and-humidity-controlled room once it arrives at the factory._
_*Steel cord*
Steel wire cord quality is based on tensile strength, elongation, and stiffness. It is manufactured from steel rod with high carbon content; and while the steel wires used have different configurations, all are brass-coated strands twisted together into cords. If the wire is used in a multi-ply tire rather than a belted tire, the fatigue performance will be important. If used in belted tires, then stiffness is of primary concern. Since the steel wire is brass coated, storage conditions are important to maintain the steel wire to rubber bonding properties. Therefore, the steel wires are also kept in a temperature and humidity controlled room once they arrive at the factory._
_http://www.maxxis.com/media/420089/layered_tire.pdf
_


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Good grief, there is no wonder why tires are so high, I appreciate the explanation ukrkoz, thank you.


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