# Ceiling Speaker Newbie questions



## stangn99 (Dec 26, 2013)

Hey all, 

As a part of our home renovation, we're getting sheets of 1/2 drywall put on top of the existing ceiling, which is covered in popcorn and seems to be painted several times. 

Contractors will be installing pot lights throughout, and I thought this might be a good time to get some ceiling speakers pre-wired.

This is a two story home with bedrooms above the ceiling I want speakers in. There is no flooring at the moment, and the subfloor (OSB) is exposed on all floors. 

The layout of the main floor is basically a long rectangle :









Ideally I would like to have the following:


 4 speakers in the Living room
 2 speakers in the kitchen

*Questions*

1. What type of receiver would I need in order to control which speakers are active? For example, If i'm watching tv/movie, I'd like only the living room speakers to be active, and kitchen to be off. If we're having a gathering, I may want all speakers to be active. 

2. I'm assuming all speakers need to be wired to one receiver, correct? What would the wiring diagram look like?


3. Any tips on speakers I should use, wiring? etc?

Thanks!


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Even in the most basic installation you will want individual volume control for the speakers.


Most basic would be impedance matching volume controls for each pair, and then a speaker selector for each pair.


The next and better move would be to go with something like the Russound Abus system, which would give you the control you want.




One thing you cannot do is simply connect all the speakers to a receiver/amplifier. 



It is not as easy as just wiring the speakers together. Setting the volume level in one room, while being in another room, just doesn't work (unless you want a lot of exercise).


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Many current A/V receivers have microphones that you place in your primary viewing location during setup then it will play a series of tones and balance the volumes optimally for all the main and surround speakers for that location. That may be all you need. Speakers can be wired or wireless.


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## stangn99 (Dec 26, 2013)

Interesting - thank you for the information. 

I'm looking at some receivers, and it looks like they can get quite pricey! :surprise:

I'm thinking now it might be more cost effective to go with a Sonos or IKEA's new sound system lineup. 

To be quite honest, I wanted the ceiling speakers for the smooth/clean look. I'm considering a projector as well, so I don't have to have anything hanging on the wall. 

If I go the Sonos route, I'd be getting quality speakers and a nifty app to control the speakers (and it's plug and play). 


Decisions, decisions. Going to price out a few receiver options and speakers to see what it all works out to.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

They don't have to be expensive. I looked at this Denon here:
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X2...la-756470824947&ref=&adgrpid=69534739656&th=1

And it does all you need, and then some.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

I like where you're going with this. For the kitchen, I would consider a pair of Monoprice in-ceiling speakers. Bear in mind that I do not own these, but the reviews seem pretty good considering the price. Besides, who is doing critical listening in the kitchen? My speakers are all by Definitive Technology. 

Here's a new model that has built in 30w amps and features Bluetooth. You could control these with your smart phone and stream Pandora or iTunes directly from your phone. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24760
If you are getting a front projector, your four in-ceiling speakers would be better suited for Dolby Atmos "height" duties. I would recommend a pair of floor standing speakers for the main channels, with a center channel placed right between, under or behind the screen, if it is acoustically transparent. Monoprice also carries in-ceiling speakers that are angled and can be used as rear surrounds since they could be placed in a location where they fire at the listening positioning. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13687
As far as amplification goes, I am a fan of Denon products. I used to also like Pioneer products until a receiver that I bought a couple years ago died just after the warranty expired, even with extremely light use.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

I just love Monoprice. I've been buying a lot of Subwoofers there, and a bunch of Outdoor Speakers. Miles of Cables over the last 20 years, lol.

But, on the Speakers, may I recommend Klipsch?
Link:
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-R-1650-C-Ceiling-Speaker-White/dp/B001587M02

They are my Choice of inwall or inceiling. I use the 8" Versions and some rectangular Speakers from them.

The Price on Amazon ($42.95) is incredible, Best-Buys sells them for $125.00
Wow!


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Slight hijack: would you use in-ceiling speakers like that for the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system?


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

huesmann said:


> Slight hijack: would you use in-ceiling speakers like that for the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system?


Depending on what your Front Speakers are, yes or no.
In a 7.1 System, all Speakers *should have the same wattage/power.*

I'm using Klipsch 200 watt 8 inch surrounds in a rectangular enclosure.My Setup is a 11.2 and I'm using 8 Inwall Speakers.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Deja-vue said:


> In a 7.1 System, all Speakers *should have the same wattage/power.*


What does this mean? I'm not an audio nut, so IDK all the deets, but AFAIK the speaker wattage rating is a max capacity, so if your amp is rated for [email protected] and your speaker is rated for [email protected], it should be fine?

Not interested in making 11 holes in my ceilings/walls.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

huesmann said:


> Slight hijack: would you use in-ceiling speakers like that for the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system?



It is preferable to not, but if you must, get some with tweeters that can be aimed and aim them away from the seating area.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Why would you aim them _away_ from the seating area?


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

huesmann said:


> Why would you aim them _away_ from the seating area?


You don't. The tweeters inside the inceiling Speakers are designed to move, and they should point towards the seating area.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

ktkelly said:


> It is preferable to not, but if you must, get some with tweeters that can be aimed and *aim them away from the seating area*.





Deja-vue said:


> You don't. The tweeters inside the inceiling Speakers are designed to move, and they should *point towards the seating area*.


OK, now I am thoroughly confused. :confused1:


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

huesmann said:


> OK, now I am thoroughly confused. :confused1:


Doesn't have to be confusing. Good Read here:

http://terraspeakers.com/3-tips-for-in-wall-and-in-ceiling-speaker-installations/

Read all the way down.
:vs_cool:


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Some don't understand that the tweeters should normally be aimed at each other to create a null area in the seating area.


Barring being able to do this, you aim the tweeters away so they don't become the predominant speakers heard.


Nothing like having the speaker nearest to you being the one speaker you hear, as that precludes you actually having "surround" sound.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

ktkelly said:


> Some don't understand that the tweeters should normally be aimed at each other to create a null area in the seating area.
> 
> 
> Barring being able to do this, you aim the tweeters away so they don't become the predominant speakers heard.
> ...


I have been installing Speaker Systems for 30 years plus. And what you are posting here is upmost confusing for the Newbs here.
Let's just agree to disagree.
I will still point my Tweeters towards the Seating area.
Dolby recommends it.
THX requires it.
DTS needs it.
Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Arcam demanding it.

I'm done here.
:vs_laugh:


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Deja-vue said:


> I have been installing Speaker Systems for 30 years plus. And what you are posting here is upmost confusing for the Newbs here.
> Let's just agree to disagree.
> I will still point my Tweeters towards the Seating area.
> Dolby recommends it.
> ...



Glad you're done because you are wrong.


Lets go all the way back to Dolby Surround recommendations.


The REAR speakers should be at each side of the main listening (seating) area, at approximately 6' with an 8' ceiling, aimed DIRECTLY at each other, thereby creating a null at the seating area. A bubble as it were, in an effort to not have a speaker be localized.


That basic rule has never been changed.


The ONLY speakers aimed at the seating area are the front left, center, and front left.


I would think that in 30 years you would have learned this.


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## Dave Sal (Dec 20, 2012)

When in doubt, go directly to the source. 



https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/index.html


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I guess there's "ideal," and then there's what you can practically do in the room.


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