# How do you keep fir needles out of gutters?



## jimhorn1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Does anyone information on the MasterShield gutter guards. How do they perform over time? Can they be pressure washed without damage? Does water still run thru the stainless screen after a few months or does it start running over the edge of the gutter?

I would appreciate any information on the product or any product to reduce gutter maintenance with fir needles.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Here is a good article about all of those high priced gutter guard style products.

Ed

http://www.askthebuilder.com/541_Gutter_Guard_Truth.shtml


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## 5.0roofer (Oct 5, 2007)

you dont keep needles out of gutters... thats why you have spring cleaning. Or you can hire someone to clean them for you. I'm a roofer and when ppl put things on their gutters it just becomes a bigger hassle.

A trick to gutter cleaning is to get a piece of wood the width of the bottom of the gutter. you can use it to push all the needles/granules to one side so you only have to clean from one spot.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

The 3 best defences to alleviating the potential for a clogged gutter scenario are:

1) Design the gutter system to have a significant and substantial pitch and making allowances for additional downspout leader pipe locations.

2) Trim back as many overhanging tree limbs as feasable to prevent the volume of debris free falling onto the roof in the first place.

3) Provide the larger downspout pipes, such as a 3" X 4" instead of the standard 2" X 3" nominal dimensions. This will allow twice the volume of debris expulsion from the gutter troughs and the clearance from the downspout attechment, which is usually a zip screw, will now have a more open clearance to allow debris to pass through without getting snagged on the tip of the screw. Once one article gets hung up, the rest have no orifice to pass through anymore.

Secret tip #4, free of charge. You can by an umbrella shaped hose attachment, which will allow you to remain on the ground to spray a steady stream of water into the highest points of the gutter down to the lowest spots by the downspouts. 

But, there really is no replacing the on the roof scooping the debris out method.

I'm sorry folks. There really is no Santa Claus, when it comes to clog free gutter protection that is univrsally applicable to all situations.

Did I actually say orifice? 

Ed


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## slakker (May 29, 2007)

I have 2 huge trees (I think hemlock and spruce) that over hang my house... the worst part is that their the neighbours'  But I like my neighbours and the trees are very pretty and supply shade. But they also shed worse than a cat, almost year round... To top it off, I have a high roof and metal roofing... So I don't want to walk on it much and it's hard to reach with a ladder...

I ended up spending the bucks and got a Leaf Guard gutter system... It's been 2 years and I'm very impressed with it... I see my neighbour tried to put a perforated sheild on her gutter, but they're pretty useless... especially with the spruce needles, it actually makes it worse...


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Having a metal roof and a steeper pitch is much more conducive to allowing enough water to flow downhill at the sufficient speed to allow the molecular cohesion function of the curved lip of the gutter guard product to have a better fighting chance in your particular situation.

The faster and more freely the water flows downwards, the quicker the opportunity to purge the leafy and other organic debris from the top of the system.

Ed


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## jimhorn1 (Oct 5, 2007)

I live in the Pacific Northwest and have many fir trees over 100 ft tall surrounding my home. We love the beauty of the trees but they do constantly rain needles on the roof. My roof is relatively low pitch and I can't change that. I do have a concrete tile roof that looks like shake shingles. It can be washed with a pressure washer. I usually do it twice a year. I am looking for solutions that make living with the problem the easiest.


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## 5.0roofer (Oct 5, 2007)

jimhorn1 said:


> I live in the Pacific Northwest and have many fir trees over 100 ft tall surrounding my home. We love the beauty of the trees but they do constantly rain needles on the roof. My roof is relatively low pitch and I can't change that. I do have a concrete tile roof that looks like shake shingles. It can be washed with a pressure washer. I usually do it twice a year. I am looking for solutions that make living with the problem the easiest.


 
how long have you had the concrete tiles on? were starting to do conversions because these types of roofing systems are too heavy for buildings that aren't engineered to carry the weight.


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

I looked at Mastershield but did not purchase it. Here is a link to Bob Villa site so you can see how people like it that have purchased it.

http://www.bobvila.com/Search/?q=mastershield&search.x=23&search.y=31

Ed check your email please.

Don


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Doc,

I responded to your e-mail.

That link showed off several people with good support, but their was also a very significant amount of complaints with the BBB. NO gutter guard product will work for all cluttering problems!

Do you realize how easy it is to NOT have any complaints with the BBB. Most dissatisfied consumers will not take the effort to go that far and even if they do, all the company has to do is give their "Reasonable" version or side of the story. The BBB is a toothless entity, whose only claim to fame is the BBB slogan which they charge about $ 500 to $ 750 per year to be able to list you as a member.

Ed


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

Yes, I was aware of the toothless part, but was not aware of $750.00 membership fee. :laughing:


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

poster ? was how do you keep fir needles out of gutters.

Cut all the fir trees down 450 feet arround the house.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

slakker said:


> I have 2 huge trees (I think hemlock and spruce) that over hang my house... the worst part is that their the neighbours'


Pour about 1-2 gallons of Clorox Bleach at the base of each of the trees and by the next year, you will have no leaves to worry about.

Just kidding.....Don't take that advice seriously, PLEASE!

Ed


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## jimhorn1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Big Bob said:


> poster ? was how do you keep fir needles out of gutters.
> 
> Cut all the fir trees down 450 feet arround the house.


Bob,

I assume that you do not live in the Pacific Northwest. Where I live, you cannot cut a tree down without a permit. If I cut all the trees down within 450 feet of my house, I not only would be cutting down 40 of my own fir trees that are over 100 feet tall, some of which have 5 foot diameter trunks, but also some of my neighbors trees. I do not believe one could get a permit to do such a thing nor would I want to.

Jim Horn


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## jimhorn1 (Oct 5, 2007)

5.0roofer said:


> how long have you had the concrete tiles on? were starting to do conversions because these types of roofing systems are too heavy for buildings that aren't engineered to carry the weight.


I have had the concrete tiles for several years. I had a structural analysis done before installing the roof. These concrete tile are much lighter that a full tile roof but do weigh more per square foot than shake shingles. You are correct that one should have a structural analysis done before installing any roofing that increases the load on the rafters.

Jim


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## slakker (May 29, 2007)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Pour about 1-2 gallons of Clorox Bleach at the base of each of the trees and by the next year, you will have no leaves to worry about.
> 
> Just kidding.....Don't take that advice seriously, PLEASE!
> 
> Ed


I don't mind the trees... but I'm trying to kill all the grass on my property.... It may be blasphemy, but I HATE grass!!! :thumbup:


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## countthebeans (Feb 6, 2008)

*Love Mastershield*

I can't understand why Ed the Roofer seems to trash Mastershield all over this forum. I joined to learn about roof sealant and stumbled upon all of this Mastershield talk. From what I can see, no one her saying it doesn't work has any firsthand experience with it. I have pine trees and have had Mastershield for three years. I live in CT. The company I bought it from has no complaints, or at least not when I bought it. My parents love it, my neighbor loves it, and I can't believe what I am reading.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Then read more and see the fuller explanation and read through all of the links previously provided.

I have never stated that one particular product will not have a place for certain situations, but instead I have revealed the truth about any one product proclaiming to be the magic wand of gutter protection devices for a universally accepted solution.

What types of flowering buds, whispy willow branches, whirlybird maple seeds, or other organic debris is typical on your home?

Which of those and others that I have not mentioned yet, are not present in your individual circumstance?

Before denouncing the advice I choose to share, which is based on much more extensive research than my home and the 2 closest adjoining homes to me, you should appreciate the fact that sometimes a contractor is not all about promoting and selling overpriced cure-alls. 

As stated previously, when I checked out the link provided for the product, I also found significant consumer complaints with the BBB brought forth against the brand of product you are hyping. 

Since you only have 3 posts and 2 that I saw reached deep back into the archives to bring this product and its glorious qualities to the top of the forums surface, there seems to be some personal motivation at stake, more so than just sharing keen insight.

I am glad that the product has proven successful for your individual situation, but that simplified unique experience alone will not be enough to convince me that this product has no defective instances during its usage from many other home owners. 

Ed


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

To address your comment CountTheBeans:








*Love Mastershield* 
*I can't understand why Ed the Roofer seems to trash Mastershield all over this forum.* 

Ed The Roofer has made comments in 2 seperate threads regarding this product and looked up the links provided and sought out personal experience from his gutter installation subcontractor and also read discouraging reviews available all over the internet, the BBB, and from forum members who did have actual hands on experience with the product.

*I joined to learn about roof sealant and stumbled upon all of this Mastershield talk.* 

I have not seen you involved in any discussions about the purported roof sealants you claim to be seeking information about. Your only 3 posted comments had to dig up old archived discussion posts regarding the one product name you are discussing. Your posturing as an informed home owner is conspicuously transparent, as you must have been doing a Google search on your own product you are representing and have found negative information stated about its effectiveness. You quite seemingly are a sales rep for this product and have attempted to use this forum venue to Spam for your product.

*From what I can see, no one her saying it doesn't work has any firsthand experience with it.* 

See the response that I quoted from another thread where you were trying to proclaim the high virtues of your product line you represent. I would say that this quoted member most assuredly has had personal experience with the product and is now very strongly biased against it.

I have pine trees and have had Mastershield for three years. I live in CT. The company I bought it from has no complaints, or at least not when I bought it. My parents love it, my neighbor loves it, and *I can't believe what I am reading.*

I suggest that you remove the rose colored glasses and pull yourself away from the self promotive manifesto tauted by the manufacturers own selective testimonials and read carefully, all of the comments about all of the gutter protection devices sold and purported to be the Final Solution. You seem to be in such incredulous disbelief at real world hands on experiences that put your own promotional comments in a better perspective, that it is obvious what your rational for posting in this forum has been. I can't believe that you would have thought that your blatant Spam would have gone unnoticed and not commented back with the reality of the effectiveness or lack thereof, of your product.




Robert W. Beumer said:


> *I have Mastershield on my house for about a year now,and it is the worst investment I ever made.*
> 
> *After the intallation and the first heavy rain I noticed water cascading over the edge of all the gutters instead of reaching the downspouts.*
> 
> ...


I guess you did not read this home owners experience and frustrations when you were advertising your undying devotion to this product, even though one of your sponsored proclomations appeared in this thread topic as well.

Have a nice day Mr. MasterShield sales rep.

Ed


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## nacko (Jan 29, 2008)

I keep the needles off my roof manually. when I hear the little bastards falling on the roof, I run up there and pick them up.


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## countthebeans (Feb 6, 2008)

Wow Ed, I am sorry I upset you. I was actually reading a comment on roof sealant from DOC FLETCHER and saw another post to Mastershield. I was happy with it and felt like I was doing a good deed. Now my email keeps filling with your responses, each one more venomous. It is really not that important to me.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

The comment that irritated me was the insinuation that I was on a mission to defame the product you had mentioned, when, if you have read the majority of my posts on this forum, you would certainly see that I am out to offer well thought out solutions along with appropriate financial considerations to be considered.

I am not soley against that one particular product, but more so against the misleading advertising and marketing techniques utilized by the manufacturers who show only the best case scenarios, especially with the mock up rain flowage simulations done at home shows.

Since all 3 of your original posts seemed conspicuously targeted for very old archived posts regarding only that product, it was concluded that you were ill advised to have been Spamming for that product, which occurrs far too often in forums such as this.

I do not take it lightly, when extensively researched and lengthy experienced real world application solutions and failures are regarded as a mission to demean a particular product.

If you truly were proferring to share your own unique experience with the product, that point is well taken, but I choose to not be dragged into the picture as if I were previously on a mission to completely denounce a particular product. I never was on such a mission, but you dug up 2 instances of thread topics were I offered my professional observations and immediately jumped to the conclusion and made the statement that I was all over this forum denouncing the merits of that product, where in more accurate appraisal of the topic, it was just 2 isolated threads that offered up my personal opinion.

It is of the utmost importance to me, that when I elect to contribute my expertise to forums such as this, that no alterior motives should be perceived to be subliminally motivated. The acceptance or rejection of my recomendations should soley be made on the insightfulness offered, which can be taken or left behind, as forum members individually choose to do with the information as they best see fit for their own circumstances.

Ed


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

countthebeans said:


> Wow Ed, I am sorry I upset you. I was actually reading a comment on roof sealant from DOC FLETCHER and saw another post to Mastershield. I was happy with it and felt like I was doing a good deed. Now my email keeps filling with your responses, each one more venomous. It is really not that important to me.


If this is the case why are you dragging out dead topics from 4-5 months past and harassing people,as roofing companies,be assured we also get 1st hand experience at peoples problems with assorted gutter covers,and what does and what doesn`t work,much further than this worked on my house,as we see hundreds of homes per year,in the space of 3 yrs that numbers close to a thousand,which would indeed give us more understanding of what works and what doesn`t,I felt ed had assessed this products failings very well,but to be honest with you I have also seen 1st hand many failures of this product and others like it,your exception top the rule doesn`t convince me because 1 out of a 1000 is still 1 out of 1000 :thumbsup:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

if it`s not important to you ,you can unsubscribe from this topic


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## Rock (Feb 10, 2008)

Cut the trees down.


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

WOW! Looks like I missed a whole lot.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Doc,

It only got interesting after he dug back into the archives to bring up 3 old threads all about the same brand of gutter protection and then accused me of slamming that product all over the entire forum repetitively.

If he would have more accurately read my original posts, I mostly commented that none of the products are the magic cure for every situation, although on an individual basis one will be great for one situation, but not for others.

Ed


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

Ed, Oh, I see. A unfortunate happening. 

TRG Saw your site, very nice indeed. :yes:

Doc


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

thanks Doc,put together by the very best in my opinion,Anita schindler,the woman does a fantastic job on site optimization as well


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## turnerwr (Jun 12, 2008)

*Don't buy MasterShield*

I have the MasterShield Gutter System and my gutters are clogged as I write. I contacted the company who sold them to me and they want $55.00 just to come and look at the gutters. Their guarantee is worthless. When you call a lady answers the phone and refuses to let you talk to a supervisor or anyone with the company. I'm contacting my state attorney generals office as I'm certain I'm not the only one in the Cincinnat/Dayton Ohio area to have problems with MasterSheild.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

I feel for you, because those Magic Gutter Protection devices are not cheap to have installed.

In most cases, they cost several times more than the actual seamless guttering system including the downspouts.

Please follow through aggressively with your compaints, as the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Ed


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

Ask the builder (TIM) says he has been testing Gutter Glove for 10 months.
So far it has worked very well. Has lots of tree crap (like 80%) on top of the product but still functions OK. He also says he is currently testing other gutter new products for which the report will be ready end of summer.

www.gutterglove.com

www.askthebuilder.com/692_Gutter_Guard.shtml

You can get for free a 30 minute DVD from Gutter Glove that tests and compares gutter guards side by side. 

He goes on to say...

The bottom line is that no matter what gutter guard you install, you will have to maintain it. The hardest part of the job is cleaning the organic muck out of the gutter. This means you either have to completely stop the small organic debris from getting into the gutter or you must install a gutter protection product that allows you easy access to the inside of the gutter. 

Gutter Guard has access holes for easy hose outs of organic muck should the need arise.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

You are correct about what Tim Carter has updated within the past 3 or so months. I reported that he was finally "Close To" satisfied with a newer product he was testing in another post recently.

I am glad to have your insight though, regarding adding those comments that all gutter protection devices will require some maintenance.

Ed


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

Wow... Tim Carter (Ask The Builder) had Mastershield installed on his home a couple of months ago. 

Odd he never mentioned it at the ask the builder site.

I asked him to test Mastershield in 2007 and the reply was there were no plans to test it. :laughing:


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Docfletcher said:


> Wow... Tim Carter (Ask The Builder) had Mastershield installed on his home a couple of months ago.
> 
> Odd he never mentioned it at the ask the builder site.
> 
> I asked him to test Mastershield in 2007 and the reply was there were no plans to test it. :laughing:


He installs all of the brands on his own home from the best that I can tell. That is his method of checking them out on a regular basis.

He stated that he will have more to report regarding that product by the end of the summer.

Ed


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## Docfletcher (Aug 1, 2007)

Yes, I see the paragraph where he speaks of two other products being tested. I don't recall him mentioning Mastershield by name though.

I am very anxious to hear how the other two products do in the test. Mastershield has no easy access to flush muck.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Bump to see if there are any updates.

Ed


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

EZ shield is the best in my opinion,of course properly maintained,and you need to maintain every decade or so


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

i pesonally think the leaf guards are only great for leaves. Not effective for needles or whirrlie birds.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

properly installed the E-Z shield has no problems with either situation 747,the" hood" should be pitched properly so the debris is shed,and doesn`t end up laying on top of it,have several that have been longtime performers with that type gutter shield


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