# supporting air handler in auxiliary pan in attic



## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Slash, keep all questions in one thread. We know what you're dealing with and we'll continually assist as the questions change per your needs.

Making ten threads for the same system is pretty much just using up bandwidth for no reason. 

I would not use 2 x 4's. What's going to happen when your main drain stops up and the water accumulates in the drain pan? That wood will eventually rot and crumble under the weight of the air handler.

It appears that you have roof joists very close to the unit. I'd use some 1" or 1.5" metal hanging strap and hang that system. Or bricks or styrafoam pads specifically designed for this purposes but for noise reduction and less chance of accidents such as the air handler dropping as any underneath support possibly collapses, hanging the unit would be best. 


Also, in an air handler the blower is past the evaporator so you'll need a p-trap in the drain line right outside of the unit. The blower will want to suck up the water into the unti, the p-trap negates those efforts and allows the condensate water to drain properly.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

might consider these vibration pads one on each corner of the unit the unit should sit in the pan with the L brackets hung off the rafter drop down with threaded rods with cross members of kindorf channel.the emergency gets piped out with no trap to a stoop or backyard.then the unit gets trapped and run down and outside...no connections between either...only the water....is that pan heavy plastic?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The pan is heavy plastic. I will look for vibration pads.
Thanks.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*insulating the plenum and trunk*

What kind of insulation do you recommend to wrap around the plenum and trunk? 
I've seen the aluminum bubble wrap stuff and the thick fiberglass insulation used.

Also, I stopped by a hvac store today and they had a variety of aluminum/silver tape. 

Is there a recommend tape that's better than the others?

The ducts are only going to be used to AC in the Summer. I have radiators for heat.

Thanks.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Is this a metal trunk line that's already existing? Plenum, existing?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

As long as the foil tape is UL listed you should be good, but Nashua is well known and used. They make an aluminum hardcast tape which has a putty like layer and feel to it, thick and seals like superglue. It's expensive and might be overkill. 

There are more appropriate ways to wrap and seal the trunk line if indeed it needs external insulation such as staples and regular foil tape. There are trunk lines and plenums which come pre-manufactured internally insulated, you don't have to do anything but put all the metal pieces together. 








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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks for the photo of the tape.
The plenum and trunk are metal without insulation.
Would you use the same Nashua putty tape to first seal the metal plenum/trunk and the insulation that needs to be wrapped around the trunk?

What would you wrap the metal trunk in?

Here's an interesting article on Foil-faced bubble wrap.

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-...bble-Wrap-Sham-Understanding-Radiant-Barriers

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I've never used the bubble stuff, can't say. What I'd do is connect the metal pieces, seal the connections with regular foil tape (using a squeegee to rub it down for optimal result, like an auto body repair squeegee) and then insulate the duct/plenum with the rolled insulation, stapling the overlapped connections (tightly!!) and then foil taping the seam over the staples. No need for the sticky hardcast tape.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Have you thought about duct board? Somewhat easier, less expensive and far less time consuming.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I think the rolled insulation has the highest R value than the duct board. I think duct board is 4 and rolled is 8.

What kind of staple gun do you use to staple the insulation?

Do you use the Nashua 324a tape?

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Yup, the same tape. Use any brand commercial grade stapler, The Home Depot.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*taping inside of ducts?*

Have you recommend taping the inside of ducts?

I have a 16" return and it would be easy for me to tape the inside and outside before wrapping it with insulation.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*zip tying flex to damper or adding 6" of pipe to damper than zip tie*

Please look at the photo. I have a damper that will be installed in a ceiling.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6KtcoydROpgeRgV6WETJd9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink



There will be flex going to the damper and then a diffuser will be screwed onto the damper.

Is it possible to attack the flex directly with a zip tie or do I need to add some type of connector?

Also, is those diffuser supposed to screw directly into the ceiling drywall? It came with 3 tiny screws but I don't think they will hold in the drywall.

Thanks for any help.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Have you recommend taping the inside of ducts?
> 
> I have a 16" return and it would be easy for me to tape the inside and outside before wrapping it with insulation.
> 
> Slash


Never the inside. What happens when it loosens and peels off and gets sucked into the blower? Not good, that's what. 

If you are serioiusly concerned about leaks than by a tub or two of Hardcast and use it to seal the connections on the outside, before wrapping with insulation. Now this "technique" will require that you allow the hardcast to dry, overnight would be best. And use a brush such as a 2" wide paint brush to apply it, not with a hand as pictured.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Please look at the photo. I have a damper that will be installed in a ceiling.
> 
> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6KtcoydROpgeRgV6WETJd9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
> 
> ...


 
Best bet is to install dampers at the plenum, where the duct takes off from the plenum right at the collar. Best bets and optimal results for air balancing that way. Each duct size will require the same size damper. You put the collar onto the plenum, then the damper onto the collar and then the duct attaches after, on to the damper.









And you're going to need to frame in each register, at the very least two sides, opposing sides are best. Then you screw the register (diffuser) into the wood, then the grill up and into the register, which clamps down onto the sheetrock. If you're dang good you don't really need to frame the box in but you'll need someone up top to apply just enough pressure to hold the box down as you screw upwards and into it while not damaging the sheetrock in the process. 

Code requires framing in but if this is your own doing and not insepected, eh.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I can frame the registers on the top floor easily so that won't be a problem.
I already have the damper at the register and the diffusers so I'm going to use them.

If the air handler was in a conditioned space, I would probably have bought the damper that hang off the collars on the trunk. I didn't want to have to insulated the dampers at the trunk. The way I have it set up now, I can just pull the flex over the collars right up against the trunk.

Is it possible to zip tie the flex to the dampers I purchased? Do you zip tie the inside part of the flex and just pull the outer insulated flex around the zip tie?

Thanks.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

This is your one chance to do it right, while everything is open. If I were you I'd back the trolley up and replan. Just a solid and experienced word of advice. Use collars at the plenum, not at the grills. The grills themselves will be able to open and close, act like dampers.

My two cents.

It is not difficult to duct tape the liner to the collar/damper and then pull the insulation of the flex duct up and over, all the way to the plenum. You simply poke the handle of the damper through the flex insulation and put a small piece of tape over that, piercing the tape with the handle. The tape ensures the outter liner doesn't rip and that's it, done deal.










Tape the liner to the collar, panduit strap (flex ties) the flex over that.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

You're right. I will pick up the dampers that attach to the collars on the plenum. I have collar on the plenum so it won't be a big deal doing it now. I will have both plenum dampers and register dampers. I will pick up some Nashua 557 today since I only have the cheapo duct tape.

Please confirm that I have the following correct.
Use the duct tape (Nashua 557) to tape the inside liner of the insulated flex to the damper at the plenum.
Pull the flex insulation over the damper handle all the way to the plenum.
Cut a hole in the insulation for the handle.

Should I use the duct tape(557) or foil tape (324A) to place over the handle?

Should I assume that you always use the duct tape (557) when taping the liner of the insulated flex and the foil tape (324A) whenever you tape the insulation for the flex?


When you stated "Tape the liner to the collar, panduit strap (flex ties) the flex over that.",
are you referring to what needs to happen at the register damper?



Thanks again for all you help. I know I'm asking a lot of questions but hopefully it will save me a lot of headache later.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

This is one example, notice the taped liner to the collar and then the panduit over the tape. I do not use the panduit over the tape, I go around the collar at least twice with the tape, then pull the flex up to the plenum (making sure to roll the insulaltion inwards so it's not petruding out of the outter liner) and then panduit strap the flex. You may want to invest in a panduit "gun" for this, makes tightening the strap easy.

At the very end I use the hardcast mastik (applied with paint brush) around the flex/plenum connection.

If you hardcast mastik seal the collar to the plenum at install then you won't really need to hardcast mastik the flex at the end, the collar will be air tight already. Just tape the liner, roll the ends of the flex inwards (it's also the neatest look) and panduit the flex down at the plenum.

Duct tape for all things duct, metal foil tape for all things plenum and trunk line/metal connections/seals. I'd use the duct tape for the hole for the handle on the duct. 

Try and get silver duct tape, it's more uniformed than black tape on silver duct, more camouflaged.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Oops, forget the picture. People will do things differently. Many tend to not tape the liner and only panduit it down to the collar. More chance for leaks that way, IMO. And I don't panduit over the tape.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks. 

What size panduit ties would you use for 6" R8 Flex? The insulation increases the diameter.

Would you use the same procedure for the damper at the register?

I will buy a panduit gun today.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, 

I need an air filter grill for my 16" return.

Will I need to install a 16" flat saddle tap to the attic floor for the 16" flex and then attach a 16" air filter grill to the 2nd floor ceiling?

Or do they make air filter grills with an attachment for the return flex?

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

http://www.quietflex.com/pages/ductalator.htm

I posted this because you need to make sure you have the correct sized duct for your system, you don't wan to restrict the return air. For any specific size system air flow is measured in cfm, how much it can give out and how much it needs back in through the return. This not restricting the air flow also mandates a proper sized return air grill.

Most residential return grills will not have a backing on it. Not a problem. use a pice of cut to size duct board, aluminum foil tape that to the back of the return grill, install a 16" collar into the ductboard, mastic seal the entire thing and you're done. 

This is if you don't have a return air chase or are not going to build out a box, which you can do on the back of the return grill instead of simply laying a flat piece of ductboard onto it and/or on the back of the furnace. Best to have a return plenum on the back of the furnace.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I have a air filter grill and it has a duct board back.
I was just to cut a 16" diameter out and attach the self adhesive collar.

Once I do that should I tape and/or mastic the entire seal? 

I built a frame for the air filter grill to mount to the ceiling.

Take a look at the picture.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

That's it. I'd foil tape the entire collar to the ductboard backing and then mastic over it. You don't actually need to do both but for a sure thing..


Plus once the collar is mastic sealed to the backing you won't need to mastic the duct to the backing, a common practice as well especially when the collar has not been mastic sealed.

It's what I do.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Perfect. I'm heading to the attic now.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

What do you use to cut the duct board on the back of the grill? I'm going to use a razor blade knife. 

It looks thick and might need 2 passes.

Also, do you foil tape and mastic all the collars on the plenum?

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Any knife\blade and yes.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I had my supply and return plenum fabricated. 

Should I tape and mastic all the joints have that have been crimped together and any holes I find?

I was going to tape over all the joints on the plenum but should I mastic after I tape?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Metal? Yup, tape and mastic, let dry. No leaks. Seal everywhere .


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*insulate plenum and trunk first or pull flex insulation to plenum first*

Doc,

Do you insulate the plenum first or pull the insulated flex duct to the plenum first and then wrap the plenum with insulation?

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Either way. Do you already have the collars installed on the plenum? For a tightest wrap it's be best to cut the holes for the collars in the plenum (leaving the collars off so the wrap can be pulled tightly against flat sides) and then wrap it, cut the insulation where you've positioned the duct collar holes and then install the collars. Then add the flex.

Cutting the holes prior to insulation wrap simply makes your next step easier, installing the collars.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I already have the collars taped on. 
Have you every run the insulation from the air handler to the end cap of the trunk and then back to the air handler?

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*liquid line drier*

I have a 2.5 ton bryant condenser.

Will any line drier work or are they made for the size of the condenser?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Nope, I've insulated the entire plenum and trunk line, piece by piece or a few sections put together and then insulated and then wrapped. Then put them all together. 

You'll have to forgive me as I'm very used to insulating on commercial hvac jobs, not so much in residential although I have done it more than a few times. I never enjoyed residential wrapping like I did commercial. 

Do you know your liquid line copper size? It's going to be either 3/8" or 1/4", the smaller of the two copper lines. I think that 2.5 ton is 3/8"s. 

That's the only thing you need to know.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Just measured and my liquid is 3/8 and suction 3/4". So I guess I get a 3/8" liquid line drier.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Just measured and my liquid is 3/8 and suction 3/4". So I guess I get a 3/8" liquid line drier.
> 
> Thx
> 
> Slash


 
That's it. You're only a few serious questions away from being a lead hvac installer. 

Best bet is to install liquid line drier an approximate 3' before the evaporator. It can and is quite common to be installed outside at the condenser, about 2' on average from the condenser, but it's recommended before the evaporator. 

The drier is meant to protect the refrigerant metering device located inside the evaporator from clogging up, nothing more.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks for the drier tip. I was hoping to get out of the attic as quickly as possible but if it's better I'll put the drier in there.

Doc, have you ever used Stay Brite 8 instead of brazing?

The copper lines will be the next big thing for me to do. Then I will have to work on the electrical/thermostat stuff. Hopefully that would be to bad.

I have definitely learned a ton from you and all the info on the web.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

No, never used stay brite. I simply use 5% silver sodder.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Use emory cloth or sand paper to clean the ends where youll braze.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I crimped the copper on the condenser that was cut when it was removed. After doing that I brazed both lines closed and was able to pull a 500 micron vacuum. Even after 3 hours, the vacuum pump wouldn't go lower than 500. I think my manifold set lines need to be replaced.

I took me 2 rods to brazed it closed. I think 1.5 rods on the suction. I was purging the lines with nitrogen and it was hard to stop the little pin holes.

I've sweated a bunch of plumbing joints but that was my first experience brazing. The silver doesn't seem to flow around the joint like soldering. I think I'm going to have a touch time brazing the bottom parts of the lines with gravity working against me.

I'm hoping it will be easier than the crimped condenser lines since they lines should fit together tightly.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Holy smokes, that's a whole heck of a lot of silver! You might want to cut a few pieces from the copper roll and practice your brazing with them, away from the system. This way you can get the hang of flame control and flowing your sodder around the joint and sucking the sodder up into it. Remember, once the sodder is flowing good it will always attract to the heat, it will follow the flame into the joint. 

Also need to make sure you have a good flame. 

I'll see if I can't find a video of how to braze and post it. 

What you're doing is causing the inside of the copper to flake which can be fatal to the metering device of the system as the more flakes and junk is in there the quicker and more chance the drier will stop up. That's why we never try to stay in one place too long. It'll also burn the copper, put a hole right through it.

You want to heat the copper up evenly around the pipe itself and the coupling, flowing your flame around the entire joint, melt the sodder onto the top of the joint and flow the sodder around with the flame. Then you can add some here and there as neeeded and again, once the sodder is around the joint flow your flame on to the coupling, sucking the sodder into it.

Those two pinched lines you did would take an experienced person less than an 1/8th of a stick without any leaks in maybe 30 seconds flat. You're new and I admire you being so gung ho (if you were in Houston I'd hire you in heartbeat as a helper if you needed some extra cash flow or simply were interested and wanted to learn), so it's all good for now but seriously consider practicing on pieces away from the system. That kind of heat and time will destroy those seals in the service valve and shraeder cores..which brings me to remind you to remove the shraeder cores prior to brazing at the condenser. 

You're doing really good, hang in there.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Pay attention to the flame, the inner blue bit and the sound as well as the distance from the copper he kept it. It will give you an idea of where you need to be.

This guy is old school, made his joint tank proof as they say in the field meaning more build up versus finesse, didn't really take the time to suck the sodder up and into the joint but it will not leak as is. See how quick it was? Also pay attention to how the copper changes color to an almost fiery cherry red, meaning it's hot enough. Once that happened he put the sodder to it. Also pay attention to how quickly he removed the flame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPOD9zHn7Q


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Here's another one. They start from the bottom which I find ackward but everyone will do it their own way, whichever way they find comfortable. Never mind the flux, all you need is sandpaper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ODV2Bdqow&feature=related


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I honestly don't think I had the copper hot enough. I was melting the rod with the flame and I was purging with nitrogen and I might of had the pressure set to high. I pulled the shraeder valves and wrapped the service valves with 1 inch wide piece of wet towels. I wrapped them well and kept them drenched.

I don't have a nitrogen flow indicator and that might have helped while purging the line and keeping the pressure down. I don't think I had any flaking inside since I was purging with nitrogen.

Do you use nitrogen when brazing?

After the lines were brazed I put 100psi of nitrogen in the system and it help for 30 minutes. I then pulled a vacuum for a few hours. I think, if I messed up the service valves, it wouldn't have gotten down to 500 microns.

Thanks for the videos. Those guys are definitely pro's. I will practice on a few pieces before brazing in the liquid line drier.

I also read that you can take apart the TXV so you don't burn it up. Have you heard this before? I was going to wrap with with a wet rag.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*running 6" pipe through floor, is a collar need or can I strap the pipe to the wall*

My AH is in my attic and I need to get air to the first floor.
I'm going to go down through my closet but I want to minimize the amount of space that is taken up in the closet. 

I have a collar that I was going to put in the front corner of the closet and set the 6" pipe over.
The collar has a 1.5" flange which I was thinking about cutting 2 sides so it would fit tighter in the corner. I am also going to remove the trim so I can get as close to the corner as possible.

I need to put a 90 under the collar and then attach 2 feet of flex running between the floor joist to get the air to the living room. The 90 does not fit into the bottom of the collar but I can bend it slightly so it fits. I can them tape it up air tight.

I then thought maybe just attach the 90 to the straight 6" pipe and use some straps to hold it tightly to the corner of the closet. This would eliminate the collar and no need to cut the collar on 2 sides plus the 90 will go right into the 6" straight pipe.

Have you don't anything like this before?

Please look at picture of pipe, collar and the starter hole in the floor.

Thanks.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Never once have I flowed nitrogen while brazing. I nitrogen pressure test and clear the lines of most if any possible flakes and junk by leaving the shraeder cores out, hooking up the gauges, shoOting 200-250 psig of nitrogen into the lines, letting it sit there for at least 10 minutes to prove I have no leaks, and then I remove the hoses from the condenser ports which are missing the shraeder cores. The nitrogen will blast out of those ports (helluva racket for a few seconds) removing any possible residue/flakes/dirt/metal shaving/junk with it. Anything left will by minute and caught by the filter(s).

That coupled with the fact that I can braze very quickly and efficiently begs of me no reason to flow nitrogen. Never had a problem, not once.

Of course I then shoot a slight bit more of nitrogen into the lines (3-5 psig) after the cores are back in, let it sit for about 10 minutes and then pull a strong vacuum. Done deal.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Is this 6" pipe going to only feed one room or are you planning on splitting it up into a few different rooms? I would never install a collar into a floor. I'd put the pipe through the floor and connect on the other side. 

It is common practice to run ducts through closets. On a new home they are still there, just sheetrocked off and called a chase. You won't ever know they are there, but they are.

In your situation you don't have much of a choice but to use actual closet space but still, put the pipe all the way through the floor, no collar on the floor itself.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

It's only feeding 1 room. I won't use a collar.
Should I use anything to support the pipe going through the floor?

When I put the 90 on the pipe, gravity will have the 90 resting on the ceiling of the first floor.
Is that a problem?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> It's only feeding 1 room. I won't use a collar.
> Should I use anything to support the pipe going through the floor?
> 
> When I put the 90 on the pipe, gravity will have the 90 resting on the ceiling of the first floor.
> ...


 
The pipe needs to be fully insulated, just so we're on the same page. It's not really a problem to have it rest in place since this is your own home and it's not inspected, letting the 90 hold it in place but from my experience it's best to be strapped. What you do is use nylon duct hanging strap, wrap the insulated duct all the way around so it's choked and use the two lengths coming from around to screw into the studs of the wall. You can also use metal strap.

That's how inspectors around here like to see it, at least.

Make dang skippy this is all insulated tightly.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, 

Both my neighbors have pipes going through their closets and neither are insulated. I realize there will be some heat transfer in the closet but it's inside the envelope. I'd like to save on space since the closet are so small but maybe I will wrap them with insulation. I'd like to insulate the 90's and flex that will be running in the floor joist but I don't think I'll have room to do that. The 90's and 6" flex will only be running about 2 feet.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Go for it! Just check it from time to time for condensation which if occurs can mess up the wood and cause mold where you can not see it. 
Think taking a cold can of soda out from the fridge, how the moisture condenses on the can and leaves a ring on the counter. 

Just be aware of that possible situation.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Good point on the condensation. I think I will insulate.

Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*foil tape or duct tape when securing flex liner to damper*

Doc, would you use foil or flex tape to secure the liner to this damper?

The damper is 1" thick and is all metal. Please look at photo. I have a front and back photo of the damper and the diffuser that will screw on top of it.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Duct tape. 

Alrighty slash, I'll be out of touch for two days. Keep asking on this thread and these other guys will be more than happy to assist. 

I'll be back around Sunday late evening. Good luck!


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Thx Doc. Have a fun weekend.
I was able to remove 1 from my outside wall.
It was fairly easy. I hammer drilled a masonary bit into different parts of the brick and broke it out with a cold chisel. I only removed the brick , no mortor.

I will attempt to bend the lines through the brick this weekend.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*uninsulated duct in floor joist*

I have to run some uninsulated duct through a floor joist and into my living room. My neighbor did the same thing but the register is only 11 inches on center off the wall.

I guess the shorter the uninsulated duct lowers the risk of condensation which could be a problem in the ceiling. 

I'd like to put the register about 3 feet off the wall so it's in the center of a window. This would mean it's uninsulated for about 3 feet.

The final placement of the register would be 26 inches in front of the window and 3 feet off an interior wall.

My questions are the following.
Do you think 3 feet of uninsulated duct in a floor joist would cause a condensation problem?

Is there a minimum that the register should be off a wall?

Is it best to center a register in front of a window?

Thx.

Slash.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Can you take some pics of the final location of the register?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

What you're going to want to do is cut the hole thorugh the floor big enough so that the insulated pipe fits through it. What's going to happen is the 50-55-ish cold dry air is going to condense the moisture in the much warmer closet air surroungding the duct, causing condensate stains on the floor and possible mold and even rust the pipe, if uninsulated. Metal ducts are known to rust over time even with insulation so you'd simply be buying a lot of time, as in a decade or more.

I'd insulate and not worry about your neighbor's ducts.

Is the register going to be on a sidewall or in the ceiling? Hopefully ceiling. Then you point the grill so it's blowing towards the window, placing the register about 2 to 3 foot from the outter wall. At least that's what I do when it's a 3 way grill. Yourself having a round grill might be best placed in the middle of the room/ceiling.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, I thought about making the hole bigger for the insulation but I really didn't want to cut the hole that big in the floor. I guess it won't matter that much making it a bit bigger.

It's going to be on the ceiling and they are round registers. I'll center it over the the window. 
I'd rather do it right than have problems later.

Thx again.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I was suggesting to place the round register in the center of the room altogether if you can.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I won't be able to place it in the center of the ceiling because I have ceiling fans there but I could use a different register.

I have round hole cut upstairs already but I might be able to put a rectangular register in with a little extra cutting. The round registers upstairs are centered in front of windows about 30" in front of the windows. Some of the rectangular registers are 1,2,3 and 4 directional. 

Would you recommend 1 directional and point it to the window? 

I would rather do it right now than be sorry later.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I like 3 ways, center blowing towards the windows (to fight the heat load, heat coming in through the windows) and the two sides blowing out of the sides. I usually install them about 18"- 2' from the inner wall, not the outter window wall.

It all depends on you, though. Either way, face the center cut towards the windows. 3 way or your round would proabably be best.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks Doc.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*Insulated flex pipe not going through floor joist*

I cut a bigger hole in my ceiling to fit the insulated flex pipe but the insulation was getting caught on the top nails from the hard wood. So I guess I'll be running 4 feet of uninsulated flex to the ceiling register in the living room. 

I will keep an eye on the condensation and see if accumulated. I may keep the register off the aluminum flex so I can put a small mirror in the flex to see if any condensation occurs.

I think I'm only going to go 18 inches on the wall for my dining room. That also has to go through the ceiling joist. I think the short uninsulated pipe the better.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*air filter for return grill*

What is the best air filter for my return grill?
I need a 20"x20" filter.
I've seen one that look like currogated paper and the fiber mesh.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Depends on your needs. I personally recommend (and use at my home home) the cheapest "rock catcher" filter. I pick up a pack of 5 for maybe $5.00 at Wal Mart. 

Thing about filters is many specialty filters restrict airflow which is not good for system performance. The cheap ones don't.


----------



## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

Do you clean ever clean your evaporator coil? I've seen some post that say you should clean them every year.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*120 volt 15 amp breaker for air handler motor*

I have a 120 15amp line to my attic that I want to use for my air handler. I only need enough power for my blower motor. I'm not installing a heat kit.

This is the air handler I have
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Residenti...ucts/AirHandlers/ARUF/tabid/1371/Default.aspx

I'm going to have to read up on how to hook up the wiring from the condenser to the air handler. Hopefully it's not that hard to figure out.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*Condenser says metering TXV, AH says flowrater*

The condenser I have says the metering device is a txv.
The AH I have says the it's a flowrater metering device?
Are they compatible or can I can the flowrater to a TXV?

Attached is a photo of the label on the side of my condenser.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Doc,
> 
> Do you clean ever clean your evaporator coil? I've seen some post that say you should clean them every year.
> 
> Slash


Checked frequently, cleaned as nessessary. If that means once or twice per year than once o twice.
I've cleaned hundreds as needed.


----------



## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*tape coming off insulation*

I wrapped my 6" pipe with insulation and then thought I taped it well. 2 days later it started to come apart.

Please look at pics. I used silver duct tape. 

Should I have used foil tape instead?
I didn't staple it. 

Should I staple it with the stapler in the photo and then tape over?

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes, aluminum foil tape should've been used and squeegee'd down. And you use about a 2'-3' overlap/lip, then staple and then tape. This is why I recommend use ductboard, no problems, but that's heresay now.

Txv and piston do the same thing, just differently. It can be either one of the two. You'd need to open the evaporator and see which one you have, txv or piston. The condesner originally came with a pistion, taped to the service panel of it that they recommend to be placed inside of the evaporator liquid line at time of install of condenser to match tonnage size of condenser. Whether that actually happened or not is what why you need to open the evaparator up.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, I haven't wrapped the plenum or trunk. I will staple and use foil tape. I can pull the silver duct tape off the insulated pipe and put foil tape on it.

When do you use silver duct tape? I thought the foil tape was supposed to be used with metal to metal. e.g.(sealing collars to the trunk).


Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Collars to trunk and all metal to metal seals, yes and on the insulation. Duct tape is used for applications such as the duct liner to the collar or extending ducts, adding one duct to another.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Got it. I guess I'll be carefully removing silver duct tape, stapling and then foil taping the insulation.

Thanks.

Slash.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*make my own tee?*

In this video, he makes his own tee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPOD9zHn7Q

I receive a tee with my txv kit and it has the stem in the path of the refrigerant.
Is it worth make my own tee or should I just use the one provided?

I do need to practice my brazing before I attempt to braze both the liquid and suction lines.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Not worth it, you'll never hook your gauges up at the evaporator. You do that at the condenser.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*p-trap connection*

Ok. I will wrap the same type of suction line insulation around the bulb and use silver duct tape.

I picked up a p-trap today. Check out pic.

Would you recommend that I put a male adapter on the end that goes into the air handler or should a put a union there?

I've also seen people put tee's before the p-trap with a cap on the top so they can add bleach so nothing grows in their line.

What's the best way to hook up the pvc to get rid of the condensation?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Use an approximate 4" of pvc coming out of the evaporator, use a T turned into that piece so the middle of the T is connected to that short piece you just installed coming from the evaporator and the ends are up and down and connect the trap to the bottom. Now you have a blow out of top as well.

Remember, this is the main drain line so it will need to be insulated as well. Plus you'll need a 1/4" drop in the line per every 5 or 10', I forget exactly what it is. In other words, keep the drain line running at a downward angle all the way to where it's going to drain. Or try your best to get it to do so.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I didn't think about insulating the pvc. I've seen a few other similar installs and nobody has insulated pvc.

I will insulate since it's only about 15 feet.

Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*100psi max gauge on nitrogen*

Is 100psi high enough to test system?
My gauge only goes to 100.

Thx
Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*removed brazed bent copper piece from suction and liquid line on condenser*

I was able to remove the liquid line fairly easily but the suction line took some time.

I think part of the copper from the cut line is still in the tube. I got most of the silver but there still seems to be some in the line.

Will my new suction line be able to be brazed into the tube? 

Please look at pic.
Have you ever brazed a line inside a tube that looked similar to this?


Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Ok,

I was able to braze the line at the condenser but I won't know if it's air tight until I braze the line drier and txv to the air handler in the attic.

After watching the video I realize I wasn't heating the copper long enough. I still don't think I have the correct flame since it take me about 40 seconds before the silver starts flowing.

I set my acetylene to 5psi and my oxygen around 7psi but I don't open the valves on the torch that much. I first light the acetylene and start closing it until I see black smoke. Then I add the oxygen.

Brazing is definitely a learning experience. I'm going to tackle the attic brazing tomorrow.
It was 107F in the attic today.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> I didn't think about insulating the pvc. I've seen a few other similar installs and nobody has insulated pvc.
> 
> I will insulate since it's only about 15 feet.
> 
> ...


City code down here in Houston only requires the first 10' to be insulated but to be on the safe side, more is better.

Yes, I've worked with many messed up copper lines before just like yours. You seem to have it, though.

100 psi is good enough. What you're going to want to do is leave the nitrogen in the system at 100 psig for about 20 minutes to be certain there are no leaks. Obviously the more pressure you use the soOner a leak will present itself, why I like 200+ psig. Now once you're at 100 psig it may fall a slight bit within the first few minutes to 95-ish as the gas stabilizes. After it's settled is when you want to leave it for a while, like 20 minutes. If after that period of time it's dropped significantly then you know something is wrong, there's a leak.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*Line set cover*

I have my line set hanging out of my brick wall similar to the one in the photo.
If I attach a line set cover, should I put the back piece on first and then put the metal clamps(similar to the ones in the photo) on the line set (drilling through the back cover) and then put the front cover on?

Has anyone had to deal with a similar wall that bumps out and back in a couple of inches halfway down the wall? 

I'm afraid the cover will draw more attention to the lines compared to no cover but I'd like to protect the insulation on the suction line.

Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*AH horizontal pan insulation kit*

Since I have my AH horizontally mounted, the instructions say to install a horizontal pan insulation kit. 

Are these generic or do I have to get one for my specific AH? 

Will any 2.5 ton horizontal pan insulation kit work?

Also, there is a primary and secondary drain knockouts on my horizontal pan. 
Should I knock them both out and connect them together before going into the p-trap?

I'm going to have a separate line connected to my aux pan.


Thanks.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Never tie two drain lines together. Either drop the secondary down into the pan so it'll drip into the metal pan or use a T float switch in the secondary of the evaporator.

You can cut the sides of the line set cover to accomodate for the bricks sticking out.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*power to the air handler*

I have a 14 gauge wire running to my attic and I was going to use that to run the blower motor on my air handler. It would be a 15 amp dedicated breaker just for the air handler blower motor. 

The operating instruction state that the blower motor is a constant torque motor with very low power consumption. The motor is energized by 24 VAC. Adjust the CFM by changing the 24 VAC leads to the desired speed on the terminal block.

I have knock out plates for a breaker on the AH but I don't know if I need a breaker since I'm not installing a heat kit. I'm only using the blowing motor for AC.

If I need to run another line, I will run it up with the line set outside the house.

Do I need a breaker and a heavier gauge wire?

Thanks.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes, it's two sets of breakers, one for the motor and one for the heat kit. 14 gauge sounds far too small. What usually happens is 8 gauge is run to the air handler from it's 60 amp breaker in the electrical service panel. Then with the same gauge wire for the heat strips simply jump from the air handler's main breaker (usually 60 amp) to the heat kit breakers (usually 30 amp if memory serves me correctly), one leg to one leg or pole to pole.

The heat kits have heat sequencers on them, bringing on one strip at a time to not draw overcurrent (amperage) and trip the breaker. I've yet to come across an air handler that has had a problem wired this way, using one breaker for both components. The only problem I could see is the wire being too small, such as 14 or 16 gauge. 

The thing about wire is the insulation factor. The motor should have the amp draw rating on it which correlates to correct wire size. You might want to check that and also ask on the electrical section of this forum, just above the hvac. Those guys know their wires!


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*hot start*

Say over 4000 btu. I have 3000 btu, 2.5 ton coil. With either work?
Please look at picture.

thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Don't skimp now, bud. Get the actual 5-2-1- hard start kit and match it to the condenser tonnage size. No other hard start kit comes installed on new condensers, only the 5-2-1. 

If you do not know your condenser tonnage size, post the model number.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I can't even see the microfard rating of either of those two hard starts, nor the tonnage size if that's listed but in general, yes, either will work. 

I've installed 3 ton hard start kits on 5 tons and they work.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

They both say 4,000 to 120,000 btu.
I have 2.5 ton condenser which is 3,000 btu.

The local hvac shop didn't have the 5-2-1 make.

Since my unit is smaller, I wasn't sure if they would work.

Thx
Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

*Ta da!!!* :thumbup: 12,000 btu's = 1 ton. Your 2.5 ton condenser is 30,000 btu's.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_BTU_per_Hour_equals_1_Ton_of_Air_Conditioning

http://acboy.org/what-is-btu-in-air-conditioning/



*How much energy is a BTU?
*Air conditioners start at about 5,000 BTU – for a small, window unit, and go up to 24,000 BTU or greater. To put this in perspective, we eat about 2,000 Calories a day in our food. One Calorie is 4 BTUs. So a smallish window air conditioner (8,000 BTU) is using as much energy every hour as an average adult uses in a day. Actually, it’s more, because the fan and compressor are not 100% efficient and there are losses.​


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Either of those two Subco kits will work.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Damn. You're right. I was off by a zero. I was thinking 40,000 btu.
The small print said something like 300% efficiency and the other 500%. I'll get the 500%.

I wasn't thinking to use one for a window unit but I guess it would help any AC compressor.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Damn. You're right.


No kidding.  :thumbup:


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I will be getting the hard start kit tomorrow the increases the torque by 500%.

I braze in my line drier today and the solder on the base of the line drier nipples started to boil.
I hope I didn't destroy the line drier.
Do I need to buy another one?

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Nah, I doubt it. Are you going to have nitrogen available to pressure test and clean the lineset?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I do have nitrogen but my gauge only goes up to 100psi.

I'm going to do what you suggest and pull the strader valves and fill it with 100 psi of nitrogen and pull the lines and have any junk blow out.

I will do this a few times and make sure it hold the pressure and there are no leaks.

My next step it to install the pvc condensation line and the thermostat wiring.

The guys on the electrical forum said my 14 gauge wire is fine since I'm not adding a heat kit. I need a 240v 15amp breaker. 

I think the thermostat wiring is going to be tricky. I have a programmable thermostat for my radiators but I'm going to have to tap into it for the ac.

Thx for all the help.


Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You may want to re-think that not having a heat kit or the possibility of installing one on a later date with only one circuit of 14 gauge wire running to the air handler. 

It will be much simpler and cheaper to buy a heat kit versus a radiator when that goes.

If you're only wiring in a/c and fan than it's fan wire to G on stat, 24 volts to R, cool straight to the condenser and common fom the condenser to common. 

I think that's right. The heat wires you simply cap off.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Also, and hopefully someone else can jump in and assist as I'm unfamiliar with radiators and how the stat receives its control voltage to run it, but I'm thinking you may need a new two transformer thermostat.

Beenthere?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The Honeywell programmable thermostat I have is only a few years old.
I remember I had to buy something to attach to the boiler in order for the thermostat will work. It might have been a transformer.

I never plan on getting rid of the radiators. I love the radiator heat and it's very efficient.

Thx 

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

What gauge wire should use to go from condensor to ah?
It's going to run next to my line set and pvc condensation line. I guess it needs to be outdoor rated.

Also, how many wires do I need?

Thx
Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

18 gauge thermostat wire. All you need is 2 strands so it'd be 18-2 wire BUT it's always goOd to have a spare wire. 18-3 or 18-4 to have spares but 18-2 is all that's required.

It's a good idea to leave yourself a few feet extra, possibley looped and taped to the lineset somewhere in the attic or at the condenser or even in the condenser.

The Home Depot will have this wire, I buy from them.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Is the home depot wire outdoor wiring?
Attached is a picture of my thermostat and wiring.
I'm only using 2 wires for the heat.
I have 6 unused wires.
The t-stat is on the first floor and my boiler is in the basement.

I want to connect to the 6 unused wires in the basement and then go to the condenser that sits outside a basement window and them up my brick wall following my line set to the ah.

What's the most efficient way you would run the wiring?

Thx
Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I'd loop about 3' and tape it to one end of the insulated lineset and run the wire the lenth of the lineset and leave another 3' (or more as needed at whichever end you need it at), tape the wire to the line about every 3' and then run the lineset. 

That's exactly how it's done in the field.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Would you use electrical tape to tape it to the suction line?

I have the line set already installed.
Everything was going well bending the line into the brick wall until I moved the ladder and it pressed against the suction line.

The ladder kinked the line so I have to put in a 90. I brazed the 90 on the ground and when I flipped it up to get it into the wall, I noticed that the 90 twisted. I was not happy after either screw up. I realized I needed to braze the line at the point of entry into the wall.

Apparently my house was the place to be as a few neighbors gathered to watch as I was 25 feet on my ladder with my acetylene torch. The torch was passed to me from the 2nd floor window.

The braze was finally good and multiple lessons were learned.

Slash.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

He he!! Fun, ain't it? 

I'd use black duct tape. You can use your silver but it doesn't look attractive on black insultube. The problem with electrical tape is it's elasticity. Most people pull it too tight and it squeezes the insultube and looks ugly. Then account for it baking it in the sun for some months to years and it breaks. 

It will work but not worth it.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

Have you ever used zip ties to hold the thermostat wire?
I'm thinking about a line set cover so I'm not to worried about the color.

My local hvac shop only sells white line set covers. I'm think that might not blend in as much as the bare copper liquid line and the black insulated suction line.

Have you ever seen a red line set covers?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Ive seen it all. Only one hvac shop in town?

You can use whatever you want, its your home but yes, I have seen but never used zip ties. Its ugly as sin but with a cover it won't matter. 

You can spray paint the cover.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*hard start lkit*

My hard start kit has 2 black leads and my capacitor has 3 terminals.
Any idea where the wires should go? 

Will I screw something up if I hook the hard start wires to the wrong terminals?

Thx 
Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Holy smokes!! What'd you name that capacitor, Rusty? 

One wire to C (common) and the other wire to H (herm) on the cap.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Make sure the BREAKER to the condenser is OFF and try to not touch the metal prongs on either the wire or the cap when you install it. Capacitors store electrical charge.

Grab and hold the wire from just behind it's prong and push down hard. Might need some pliers.


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## JJboy (Oct 12, 2010)

Doc, you should getting some beer for this all posts. You're doing consulting not DIY anymore ... :whistling2: :laughing:


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I will check in the morning if I can see a H and a C on the cap.
It's might be to rusted. I was hoping the colors would mean something.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

JJboy said:


> Doc, you should getting some beer for this all posts. You're doing consulting not DIY anymore ... :whistling2: :laughing:


 
My last drink was on May 4th. I started recovery meetings, AA and all that jazz. Money works, though, hint hint. (<---- Slash) :thumbup: :jester:


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> I will check in the morning if I can see a H and a C on the cap.
> It's might be to rusted. I was hoping the colors would mean something.
> 
> Thx.
> ...


 
Only if you trace the wires back to their origin. Trace that blue wire back from the cap, where is it coming from? The same on the other two. From there I can tell you. As a matter of fact, one of those wires will be coming from the contactor just to the right of the cap. That is the common. You can connect it, one wire for common from start kit, at either the cap or at the contactor directly next to the wire connecting contactor to capacitor. 

The herm wire will be coming from the compressor.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm going to connect the thermostat today and was wondering if this is how it is done.

Run the yellow wire from the t-stat to the condensers contactor.
Run the green wire from the t-stat to the green on the air handler which should be the blower motor.

Both the yellow and green wire will connect directly to the t-stat. 

Then I need to connect the condenser to the air handler.
I am going to do this by connecting a wire to the contactor on the condenser and to the blue wire in the air handler. I believe this is what the instructions in the manual are saying to do.

Thx.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Yellow line goes to contactor, blue to compressor.
Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> I'm going to connect the thermostat today and was wondering if this is how it is done.
> 
> Run the yellow wire from the t-stat to the condensers contactor.
> Run the green wire from the t-stat to the green on the air handler which should be the blower motor.
> ...


 
I'm going to have to refer you to one of these other guys as my knowledge is limited with this. 

Anyone of you other guys, please jump in.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Yellow line goes to contactor, blue to compressor.
> Thx
> 
> Slash


 
One wire to the where the yellow wire is connecteed to on the cap (or contactor) and the other wire to where the blue wire is on the cap. That's it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Didn't read all of this thread. So don't know what brand and model air handler you have. Some air handlers run the blower at one speed when only the G has 24 volts to it, and at another speed when the Y terminal also has 24 volts to it.

From air handler to condenser. You should run at least 4 wires. Red to go to the stats RC, Green to go to the stats G, Yellow to go to the stats Y and also connect to the condenser's yellow/contactor. The fourth will connect to the common of the condenser's contactor.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I have a goodman ARUF303016CA 2.5 ton AH.
I guess the factory sets the motor speed to slow since the red wire is setting the motor speed.
Blue is medium and Black is fast.

Are you saying I should have 2 wires going from the t-stat to the condenser and 2 wires going from the t-stat and air handler?

Thx 

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Can you please take a picture of the wiring diagram and post it, and get a good clear complete picture, please. I ask because either the blue or the brown is going to be common, other will be cool. 

R from handler to R in stat. 24 volts/power

Green from handler to stat G terminal, fan on only

That single white would be heat but you have no heat kit so cap it off where it is.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*my txv wrapped up*

Here is a photo of my txv wrapped up.
Should the coiled copper lines be wrapped also or just the bulb?
I put 2 pieces of line insulation on the bulb and wrapped it with black duct tape.
I could wrap more insulation around it if you think it's needed.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Not needed and no, that tiny little tube does not need insulation.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*photos of electrical panels and manual*

Here is a photo of the manual and 2 pictures of the inside of the condenser.

Not sure if these help but there were 5 wires coming out of the air handles. I'm not using a heat kit.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*line set cover*

On each section of the plastic line set cover, there's a pop out hole to screw it into the wall.
Since I'm going into brick, I will needed to know the best way to approach this.

Does the actual suction and liquid line need to be secured in the line set cover?
Is it okay if I secure the cover to the brick wall and have the line set dangle into the line set cover along with the pvc condensation line?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Y from stat directly to one wire to condenser outside. Other wire from condenser to blue at air handler, common, and that's it for the condenser. Cap off the white and the brown.


You can let it all dangle inside of the cover, just be sure it's not too heavy that it kinks the line where it penetrates the wall. 

I usually drill through the side lips of the cover and use anchors in the brick.


Also, a thank you to beenthere and don't go too far, please. It's his having 24 volts already controlling the radiator in the stat that has me stumped.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The boiler imply connects to R and W of the stat. And the jumper between R and RC needs to be removed.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Do I have to connect the red at the handler to R or RC on the stat?
I'm currently using the R for the boiler but I can get 2 wires there if I have to.

Beenthere is correct that I'm using R and W on the stat to the boiler.

I actually had the wires switched at both the stat and boiler but I just switched both at the stat and boiler so the colors match what's on the stat.

If I need to use the red than I will need 3 wires at the air handler. Red to stat, green for blower motor and blue to connect to condenser.

Is this correct?

I have a picture of the wires going to the boiler and a pic of my stat.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Connect the new red from air handler to RC, RCOOL.

Yes, you have it correct. Just leave those other two wires, the white and the brown, individually capped off at the air handler. 

Also as beenthere has said, you need to remove any jumper between r and rc in the stat if there is one.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

You need R from air handle to RC of stat, G from air handler to G of stat, Y from stat to one side of condensers contactor coil, and pig tailed to also connect to air handlers Y terminal/wire. Plus a wire to connect to the common of the stat and the condenser.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Beenthere, I believe the pig tailed yellow wire from the stat and then to the condenser contactor goes to the BLUE wire in my air handler. I don't have yellow wire in the air handler.

Do I connect another wire to the other side of the condensers contactor and then to the C"common" on the stat?

I don't use the C for the boiler. Also, the stat is powered by 2 AA batteries.

Thx for all the help.

Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Condenser contactor common needs to go to the air handlers common/C.

In your install instructions, it will say if the air handlers blue wire is the Y on the air handler board.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

one page back is the wiring diagram, BT.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Blue is common, not Y.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

So, is the yellow wire, the only wire that goes for the stat to the condenser?

Connect the Y on the stat to one side of the contactor on the condenser.
Then I'll connect another wire to the other side of the contactor and run it to the blue on the air handler.

Does it matter what side I connect the yellow to the contactor?

Thx for the help.

Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

nope, doesn't matter which side.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Ok. I connected the thermostat and electrical wiring today.
I was able to get the blower motor on by selecting fan the the thermostat.
It seemed like everything was working perfectly and then the blower motor stopped and no more air out of my registers.

Refrigerant was added but the blower motor never came on. I moved the stat wires on the contactor and they might have touched the top terminals that have power going to them. Nothing sparked but I'm not sure if that would damage the thermostat.

The compressor started fine if the contactor was manually pushed.

I went up the in 108 degree attic and pulled the cover off the air handler. I noticed that the 3 amp fuse was blown. I thought I had found the problem but, after replacing the fuse, the blower motor still wouldn't go on.

I put a new capacitor in since the old one was rusted but I don't think that was the problem.

Any ideas where I should start looking for the problem?

Did I fry the thermostat?
How do I check for 24v at each wire? 

Hold one leed on the multi-meter to the yellow common and the other to the wire being tested?

I'm definitely a newbie/hack to the electrical part of hvac.

In the picture, I'm touching the tip of my finger to the wire coming from the air handler.
There's a red/green/white wire but I colored the white wire blue because that is going to the blue wire in the air handler.

I have two 18/2 wires going to the stat. One of the wires is from the air handler and they go to the red and green on the stat. The other wire is just from the condenser and it connects to the yellow on the stat.

Thanks for any help. It was 108 in my attic today. That might not be hot in Texas but it's brutal in Maryland.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Your problem is in the air handler. You said the fuse was blown. After replacing that fuse did you check at the stat for 24 volts? R and C. If there is no 24 volts at the stat then you need to check if 24 volts is coming out of the transformer in the air handler.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Does the stat call the air handler and then the ah calls the condenser?
Or does the stat call both?

The power went out in a storm last night. I will start trouble shooting when the power comes back.


Thx
Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Thermostat controls both.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*Fried thermostat*

I the stat wires going to the contactor must have touched the 120v lines on the contactor.
The board was burnt. I replaced the stat with a spare I had. 

I believe I have the wiring correct but for some reason the 3amp fuse in the AH keeps blowing. I put a new fuse in and within 30 seconds it blows. 
Did I fry the AH board when I fried the thermostat?

Is there a way to test the AH board to make sure it's working properly?

Does the blower motor have to come on before the outside compressor?

Is there a way to hot wire both the blower motor or would that potentially damage something?



Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*shot of wiring to condenser*

Here's a pic of the wiring for the outside condenser.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

It looks like you've got 24 volts straight out to the condenser from the air handler, the reds. That's a no no, blown fuse. The white to blue is correct (common). That red from the condenser to the STAT Y, not to the condenser.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I take that back, I see now that that's the thermostat 24 volts. That's correct.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

That blue from the air handler has a white to the stat. That white, coming from blue, would be common for a digital stat and needs to be hooked up on terminal C. I don't see the condenser common hooked to that blue. 

Where is the common from the condenser?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You have a white going to the stat from the blue common of the air handler. That white should be hooked up to common (c) in the stat and you should also have one condenser wire hooked to that blue. The other condenser wire to Y on the stat.

Where is that one common condenser wire?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

What you needs is 18-4 going to the stat from the air handler, 4 wires. I only see three. That way the one wire hooked to the Y in the stat can connect to one wire going out to the condenser straight, right at the air handler but not connected to the air handler. Make sense?

Then of the other wire to the condenser, hook it to the blue common. And if it's a digital stat than bring a common from the blue to the stat's C terminal as you currently have the white to the stat on common at air handler. Done.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

In other words you should have two sets of thermostat wire at the air handler; one 18-2 to the condenser and one 18-4 to the stat. From there all connections are made, right at the air handler. 

I only see one set of 3 wire at the air handler, I'm assuming to the stat as it has the green G wire hooked. You're missing the Y from the stat in that same bundle as well as the condenser wires, Y and common.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*AH wiring*

I have 18/3 going to the AH to the condenser.(red/green/white(colored blue)
I have two 18/2 going from the condender to the stat.
The wire colors for the 18/2 are red and white.
I colored one of the white wires green and the other white wire yellow.

I connected(with wire nuts) the green and red from the AH to the red and green to the stat. I connect the blue from the AH to the right side of the contactor.

The wire on the other side of the contactor (I'm touching it) is the yellow wire going to the stat.


Thx 

Slash.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The red wire from the AH is actually go to the orange wire but is connected to the RC in the stat.

There are only 2 other wires at the AH. A white and brown wire.

Am I supposed to connect he white wire on the AH to the stat?

Thx.

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The white and red on the stat are used for the heat and are connected to my boiler.
Should I splice into the white wire and connect it to the white on the AH?

After looking at the AH diagram, it looks like the white is the only wire I'm not using. It says the brown wire is for an optional outdoor thermostat.

Thanks.

Slash.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Read my posts and and do it that way. 18-2 or 3 (you'd have one spare which which be good) out to the condenser and leave it unhooked at the air handler. Connect the red and the white to the condenser contactor, one on each low voltage side. These are the ONLY two control wires that need to be at the condenser. I don't know what you got going on there, or why, but there should not be any wirenut connections at the condenser. No two or three wires connected to any one side of the contactor.

18-4 to the stat and leave it unhooked to the air handler. 18-4 would have red, white, green and blue or yellow. Wire red on R, green on G, white on C and blue/yellow on Y in the stat.

Run those wires, come back and I'll tell you how to hook it up at the air handler.. You have some control wiring issues, why the fuse is blowing. 

No one ever said to run the two condenser wires out to the condenser from the air handler CONNECTED. If that is the case than that red is giving the condenser 24 volts at all times. Then once the call for cool kicks in it's 24 volts against 24 volts at the condenser and the fuse blowing is the result.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

That white at the air handler is for your electric heat strips which you do not have so cap that wire off. Do the same to the brown. You are not using those two.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, Thx for the help. I knew I screwed something up.

Your first line says 18/2 to the condenser. Is that from the stat to the condenser?
You say leave it disconnected from the air handler.


I think I have it set up the way you stated but I don't have a C at my stat.
Scroll up and look at the picture. I have an RC.
My old stat had a C but not the new one.

Thx 

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The blower motor is now working after I disconnected the blue wire that was going to the contactor. Connecting the blue wire to the contactor was causing the ah 3amp fuse to blow.

Thx 

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I have 18/2 from the ah to the condenser and 18/4 from the ah to the stat.
I have the red and white hooked to the contactor but nothing to the AH.

I have all the 18/4 wires hooked to the stat but I don't have a C (common on the stat) so I don't know what to do with the white wire in the 18/4 wire.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> Doc,
> 
> I have 18/2 from the ah to the condenser and 18/4 from the ah to the stat.
> I have the red and white hooked to the contactor but nothing to the AH.
> ...


You have a digital stat, right? You can put batteries in it for the display and leave that white wire not connected to that blue and not connected at the stat. That way you are not bringing a common to the stat. The common only makes the circuit for digital display, not for running anything other than the digital display.

I'd like to see the stat's manual but I believe that the B is common so if you want to try that than leave the white connected to the blue at the air handler and hook it to B in the stat. Try the unhooking it first with batteries in the stat.

Stat wires to air handler wires:
(R)ed-Red
(G)reen-Green
(Y) whichever color you are using- unhooked at air handler but make sre there is a wire on the Y terminal in the stat

Condenser to air handler wires:
Red hooks to the Y coming from the stat which is not connected to air handler, that last wire above.
White- blue common of air handler.


Done.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I believe that is how I had it set up. 
I have the red on the 18/2 connected to the yellow on the stat and 1 side of the contactor.
I had the white of the 18/2 connected to the blue on the air handler and the other side of the contactor. 

The blue connected to the contactor was causing the fuse to blow.

Thx

slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

slash5bmw said:


> The blower motor is now working after I disconnected the blue wire that was going to the contactor. Connecting the blue wire to the contactor was causing the ah 3amp fuse to blow.
> 
> Thx
> 
> Slash



The condenser will not come on without the common hooked up. It's not the blue that's causing the problem, it's a different wire UNLESS the contactor coil is bad. Even then it wouldn't be the common but the contactor.

I'd triple and quadruple check all wiring.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

And no, if the picture you posted of the 18-3 wire (with the green) is to the condenser which you said it was then you've got a constant 24 volts to the condenser. I wouldn't see how you'd connect the green at the air handler with the use of the condenser's bundle of wires to the stat. 

Either way, check and re-check and then check again, then check once more.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I have it wired the way you said.
Green from AH to Green on stat
Red from AH to Red on stat
BTW, the air handlers blower motor is working perfectly. It goes on and off when the stat is set.

You are absolutely right that the condenser needs a common and I'm sure that is the problem.

I have 2 wires going to the stat and the condenser. 1 yellow wire going to the left side of the contactor and connected to the yellow on the stat. The other wire (common) needs to go to the right side of the contactor but I'm not sure what wire is common on the stat. I am going to connect it to the B on the stat like you mention in post 163.

I thought the blue wire from the AH was supposed to go to the right side of the contactor but, when I did that, the AH 3 amp fuse would blow. 

Look at the wiring diagram in the picture. I also posted the photo of my stat's connections. It looks like it's saying to attach the stat's yellow to 1 side of the contactor and the blue from the AH to the other side of the contactor. Is that what is show or am I reading it incorrectly?

I won't be able to work the AC for a few hours but I'm am very close to getting this all to work.

Thx 

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*What's the easiest way to test the contactor?*

If the contactor is bad, I'd like to test it to verify.
What's the easiest way to test the contactor?
When I manually press it, the compressor kicks on.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I'd try removing the R and the W from the radiator from the stat as well, hooking up the blue at the contactor. See if that works. 

To test the contactor, it's best to remove all wires from it but that may be a little much. Turn the breaker to the condenser off and leave stat in OFF position. Remove yuor two low voltage wires from the contactor. 

With your meter set on ohms (resistance/continuity) test from one low voltage terminal across to the other. At this point there should be no continuity as the contactor is not pulled in. 

With your third hand push and hold the contactor in, again testing for ohms/continuity across the two low voltage terminals. Now that the contactor is closed there should be resistance. Again, it's always best to remove all wires from the contactor prior to testing as with wires left attached those paths and components can give a false pretense as to what you are testing, but it may be too confusing at this point to remove them all. It should work being only the low terminals you're testing, they only have one path, across the contactor.

Also you can check from one terminal to ground, using the cabinet as ground or the electrical ground lug. There should _*not*_ be a path to ground from either side, contactor pushed in or not. Use the same ohm setting.

I doubt the contactor is bad but stranger things have happened. I'm still wondering about all those wire nuts at the condenser. I'm betting your problem lies there as there should not be multiple low voltage wires tied together.

Re-check your wiring.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Where is that RC orange wire going to?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

The orange RC wire is going to the red on the air handler.
The reason there were wire nuts at the condenser was because the air handler wires weren't long enough. I just extended the ah wires so they could make it to the stat. 
They were never hooked up to anything in the condenser.

The only wire from the ah that was connected to the condenser was the blue wire. It was connected to the right side of the contactor and I believe that was causing the ah fuse to blow. If you look at the contactor, I colored the wire blue since it was conected to the blue ah wire. It was actually the white wire in the 18/3 wire.

Once I find the common to attach to the right side of the contactor, everything should work properly.

The left side of the contactor already has the yellow to the stat attached. It's the other side of the contactor that needs to have a common attached.

Thx


Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Stat diagram.
It states "If a "B" wire in your system is a system common, then connecting it at the "B" terminal may cause damage to your system".

It doesn't show the B terminal being used into the 5 wire system. It shows B used s change over heat with a heat pump.

Thx
Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

If I hold multimeter to both the yellow coming from the stat and the blue coming from the ah, should it read 24 volts when the condenser is called from the stat?

Thx
Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

If you are talking about the checking at the contactor for low voltage why do that, it pulls in when there's 24 volts.

You would check one side to ground/cabinet and then the other. This is known as potential, there is potential for 24 volts to go to ground if given a path as long as 24 volts is present in the circuit. This potential path is what your meter would read. If there is 24 volt potential to ground on each side there are two thing I can tell you with certainty granted the condenser has high voltage to it and is wired correctly: the contactor is pulled in and the condenser will be running. 

Did you remove that jumper wire in the stat? Did you remove the radiator /heat wires from the stat and try cooling then? 

I'm going to be gone for a few hours so hopefully beenthere will chime in again.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Beenthere,

You said the following:

"You need R from air handle to RC of stat, G from air handler to G of stat, Y from stat to one side of condensers contactor coil, and pig tailed to also connect to air handlers Y terminal/wire. Plus a wire to connect to the common of the stat and the condenser."

The above is what I think I screwed up. I have the Red and Green connected properly but
I connected the yellow from the stat to 1 side of the contactor and the blue( common) from the air handler to the other side of the contactor. 

Are you saying I need to connect the stats yellow to the air handlers blue (common) and then connect them to just just 1 side of the contactor?

If that's the case, I don't know what wire to connect to the other side of the contactor.

Here's a shot of the board in the air handler. I followed the blue to the board that there's a C above the terminal. I assume that means the blue is common.

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You previously said that the fuse blows after about 30 seconds. This is due to the time delay in the stat, the stat does not call for cool immediately. Is there a flashing snow flake or any symbol for cool apparent when the stat is calling that stays on solid after 30 seconds on the stat itself? The stat should also click after those 30 seconds. That's the time delay.

If everything else is wired properly than I'd remove the heat wires and try cool then.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

The condenser's common, doesn't connect to the stats common. It MUST connect to the air handlers common.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

beenthere said:


> The condenser's common, doesn't connect to the stats common. It MUST connect to the air handlers common.


I don't believe we know which terminal is common on the stat as he doesn't have a C terminal there, only a b/o. I don't think he hooked a common to the stat UNLESS he's gotten his 18-2 mixed up somewhere which we both believe is a high probability. 

You previously mentioned something about pigtailing, slash just quoted you up above. What is that?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> I don't believe we know which terminal is common on the stat as he doesn't have a C terminal there, only a b/o. I don't think he hooked a common to the stat UNLESS he's gotten his 18-2 mixed up somewhere which we both believe is a high probability.
> 
> You previously mentioned something about pigtailing, slash just quoted you up above. What is that?


He doesn't have the air handler I thought he did, so he doesn't need to do the pig tail.

B on that stat is for Rheem/Ruud heat pumps. Its not a common.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

It blows instantly when the blue (common) air handler wire it connected to the contactor while the yellow stat wire is connect to the other side of the contactor.
I disconnected the White and Red that was used for the heat but the 3amp AH fuse still blew immediately when the blue AH wire was connected to 1 side of the contactor.

Does this some like something a bad contactor would do? When I press the contactor the compressor start right up.

Thx

Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Is the condense contactor mounted vertically, or horizontally?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

My air handler blower is working right now. I just have the red and green from the AH hooked to the red and green on the stat.

The problem is getting the contactor to engage.
I believe the yellow from the stat is the common because the photo of the stat diagram I posted above shows a C under the Y on the same terminal.

I have the Y from the stat going directly to 1 side of the contactor.
As soon as I put the blue wire on the opposite side of the contactor, the ah fuse blows.
I believe the blue from the AH is the common since I traced it back to the AH board and saw the letter C about the terminal.

The stat is set for fan only. Cool is off and the fuse still blows immediately.

Is if possible that I have some bad parts on the condenser or AH? 

Thx

Slash


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

*photo of contactor*

I believe vertically. Here's a photo.

I'm holding the yellow wire going directly to the stat.
I colored the other wire blue and that's going directly to the blue on the air handler.

Thx

Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

take the green wire that goes to the air handler off of the green of the air handler. Connect it to the blue of the air handler. then connect it where you have the blue connected at the contactor of the condenser. This is only a test, so don't worry about the air handler blower. Turn power back on to the air handler, and set stat to call for cooling, and see if the fuse blows.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

beenthere,

The contactor engaged and the compressor is running but now I don't have the blower motor working because we disconnected the green. 

I guess the contactor is good. Where do you think the problem is? 
if I hook the green stat wire to the blue wire at the contactor will the blower turn on?

Thx

Slash


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

It will probably blow the fuse, as that should be a dead short.

I would check for nicks in the thermostat wires, at the areas where you stripped back the sheathing.

In a pinch, you can connect the green wire to the yellow wire. You just won't be able to use the fan "on" feature of the thermostat.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I had to leave the house and won't be back until the morning. 
Doc/beenthere, Thx for all the help. I'm glad I don't need to buy a contactor or ah board.

I will keep you posted after I check out the stat wires.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Wiring screwed up at condenser. Why is there a green?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, 

The wiring looks screwed but it's not. The wire wouldn't reach the stat from the ah. I wanted 100 feet 18/3 but they only had it in 50 foot rolls. It is going from an attic, down the outer wall and the through the basement to the opposite wall. It was more than 50 feet so I extended the wire at the condenser with 18/2 to the stat. I spliced it in at the condenser so it would be be covered from the weather. 

This might be a no no and piss-off/confuse a future hvac tech but it's not connected to anything at the condenser. 

My photos weren't the best and it actually looks better than the pictures show.

The green and red from the air handler go directly to the stat. I just extended the red and green with the red and white from the 18/2. That is why I colored the white on the 18/2 green. It made sense to me at the time but I'm not sure it's code or that I'd do it again. They only stocked 18/2 in 100 foot rolls at my Home Depot and I wanted 100 feet of 18/3 or 18/4.

I wish I could post videos in this forum. I should have made a youtube video of what I did. It probably would have been easier to trouble-shoot the problem. I'm going to look for nicks in my stat lines tomorrow. I'm usually very careful when splicing wires. I wonder if pulling the wires down over the 90 degree bricks cut one of the lines. 

I will post an update tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the help. My 7 and 10 year old thank you also. Their bedrooms will now be cool in this 100 degree heat wave that is hitting the Maryland area.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You're welcome and I'm only still trying to help, this should not be this difficult.

It appears as if you have two sets of stat wire coming into the condenser. Am I just seeing it wrong?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I originally bought 100 feet of 18/2 so I could go from the AH down the outside brick wall, hit the condenser and then continue to the stat.

When I realized I needed 18/3 from the AH, I cut the 18/2 in half and ran both sets of 18/2 from the condenser to the stat. I then bought 50 feet of 18/3 and ran that from the AH to the condenser.

I splice in the red/green from the 18/3 to the red/white(colored the white green) of one set of 18/2 to the stat. I then took the white from the 18/3 and colored that blue and connected it to the right side of the contactor.

I then connected only 1 white wire(colored it yellow but it's hard to see in the photo) of the other 18/2 and connected it to the left side of the contactor and the yellow on the stat.

Tomorrow, I will look closely at all the wires for nicks and hopefully find out where it is shorted.

Thanks again.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You're not going to want to hear this but it's 100% your wiring that is messed up. Somewhere you have crossed a wire. This is why we don't splice 18-2 and 18-3 throughout a single run, it's far too easy to make a mess out of something so simple such as this.

This is neither here nor there but if I came to your home I'd rip out all of your wiring, run the correct 18-4 from air handler to stat and 18-2 to condenser from air handler, make all connections ONCE at the air handler after the stat and condenser were hooked up, turn your system on, watch you weep in sheer joy and then hand you a bill for $500.00, and watch you weep some more :thumbup:


The only variable is your wiring. There is nothing else it could be.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc,

I will let you know for certain tomorrow but I doubt I crossed any wires. 
The condenser is in between the stat and the air handler.
The only way to run the wires without splicing would be to run an 18/2 from the Air handler to the stat. That would connect the red and green from the AH to the Stat.

Then run 18/1 from the air handler to the condenser. That would connect the blue(common) on the air handler to one side of the contactor.

Then run 18/1 from the condenser to the stat. That would connect the other side of the contactor to the stat(yellow wire).

Would you loop back 2 of the wires in the 18/4 set at the air handler in order to get the blue common wire to the condenser?

If you have 1 wire in the set that needs to stop at the condenser and the other 2 wires continue to the stat, how would you do it?

I might be ripping it all out tomorrow if you have a better solution. I think I read somewhere not to run over 100 feet of 18 gauge wire. Go 16 gauge if the run is more than 100 feet. Not sure if that's true or not but I remember reading something about that.

Thx.

Slash.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

It's either your wiring or the air handler's from the factory that has run before or the condenser from the factory that has been wired in and run before. What do you think it is? 

I wouldn't say it was your wiring if there was a chance that it was not. 

Yes please let me know. I won't say I told you so, I promise.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I will definitely let you know tomorrow.
I'm sure I'll have more photos for you. 

I'm not saying I didn't screw something up but I really don't know what it could be.
God knows I've already kicked a couple of copper lines and fried a thermostat.
Screwing up thermostat wire would be par for the course.

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

We've all been there, I can guarantee you that. Again, your commitment to this entire install is absolutely fantastic and I commend your ongoing efforts. And when you do finally find this annoying little pimple on your backside you will kick yourself in the teeth, also guaranteed.


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

I ran a new 18/2 line from the air handler to the stat and left the 18/3 line just going to the condenser. I'm using the green wire in the 18/3 to connect the blue AH wire to the right side of the coil. Everything is working perfectly. 

1 of the 18/3 wires must have been bad and with 100 degree weather in the forcast for the next few days, I'm not going to track it down right not.

Thanks you Doc and Beenthere. You saved me from pulling all my hair out.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Glad to hear it, Slash! Very well done!


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

Doc, I wrapped 3/4 of my air handler with r8 insulation.(bottom, backside, top)
I did not wrap the front or foil tape over the front access panels of the AH.

Do you foil tape the access panels and wrap the front with insulation?

I took the electrical access panel of 5 times because I kept blowing fuses. Now that everything is working perfectly, I was thinking about taping and insulating the front.
Is this common practice? 

Any thoughts?

Thx.

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

This would be the first time I've ever heard of an air handler externally wrapped in insulation, not common practice at all. Is there no insulation on the inside?


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## slash5bmw (Jun 18, 2010)

There is insulation on the inside but I believe it's only r4. All my other insulation is r8 so I put it on 3 sides. I was thinking about getting a piece of the fiber board for the front. 

I guess it was overkill wrapping the 3 sides.

Are there any disadvantages in wrapping the ah besides have to remove the insulation when servicing the unit?

Thx

Slash


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Not that I can think of.


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