# Do these porch columns provide any support?



## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Do these porch columns provide any support, other than keeping the soffit from sagging?

The previous owners of my house put up fascia boards without priming / painting the ends. We all know how well that works out. Water got in between where the 2 ends meet, swelled the wood, let more water in, and rotted the fascia boards. The water also rotted a small section of my soffit. The soffits are plywood. I've been working to replace the rotted fascia's and came around to the front porch area. This one has the worst rot out of all of the ones I have replaced.


IMGP4174 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr


IMGP4175 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

The rotten area is here in the circle. It's the 2 ends of the fascia's and a small section of the soffit underneath.

This section of the soffit is a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I outlined it in this picture here:

IMGP41782 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr 

In order for me to remove this sheet of plywood, the column will have to come out. Can I just pop the column out, replace the rotten wood, and put the column back? Does the column offer any kind of support for the roof structure other than holding up the soffit board? Also, I do not see any visible screws or nails on the column, connecting them to the soffit. Are they just slid in place or will their be some form of screw / nail attaching them on the inside of the soffit that I would have access to once I removed that fascia board?

The column will also be replaced. I believe the previous owners didn't prime/paint the bottom of it and rain got to it as well.

IMGP4177 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

I'm thinking that if I remove just the rotted column, and leave the other in place, I would be fine. But, before I take a chance of making an easy job harder, I wanted to ask to see what others thought.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Most likly there supporting post.
There reason there failing is there in direct contact with the slab.
They can be removed cut off and add the post base that was suppost to be there and replaced.
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ABA-ABU-ABW.asp
The base can then be covered up with some 1 X 6 vinyl as a base cover and some vinyl base cap moulding.
Why remove the plywood. Just go over it with some vinyl beaded soffit, no more painting.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

joecaption said:


> Most likly there supporting post.
> There reason there failing is there in direct contact with the slab.
> They can be removed cut off and add the post base that was suppost to be there and replaced.
> http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ABA-ABU-ABW.asp
> ...


Can I safely remove them one at a time without putting any other support under them?

The plywood has a rotten spot. I would rather just replace the entire sheet of plywood. If I did the vinyl beaded soffits, I would have to do the entire perimeter of the house so that everything matches. This was an idea I had for further up the road, but not right now.

Thanks for the info on the bottom cap! I was ready to get a whole new column. :thumbsup:


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Nope going to have to support and slightly lift to get them out.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

joecaption said:


> Nope going to have to support and slightly lift to get them out.


Thanks. Considering the tight space there, and the fact that the fascia's are coming off as well, how would I support it and where?

Would it be wiser to just cut out the small rotten part of the plywood and replace it with better wood. It's a small section of the plywood that has the rot right under where the 2 fascia's meet.


IMGP4178 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr


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## Roofgroup (Feb 25, 2013)

If I was replacing the soffit area under your porch I would first cut an access hole to visually inspect what is going on in there. Those posts might not even be supporting anything. Best way to find out is to open it up and look. 

Then plan your next move or ask the next question. We are here to help. 
Goodluck.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Should be able to just go up in the attic to see what's going on.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Since it is going to be replaced, open up the soffit adjacent to the columns and see if they are actually structural. If they are, make up a strongback and jack and hold outlookers with a bottle jack that does not leak, then put a temporary post in. Remove and cut off bottom of posts, paint posts and install a metal post chair that is fastened to the concrete pad with a minimum 3/8 red head anchor.


I would miter the ends of the fascia with the angle opposite the sight line, and back screw a flitch plate, or better yet, clad the fascia with matte white aluminum with a drip on the bottom.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Looks like there's just not enough over hang on those shingles causing the fashia to rot.
I'd also bet no one took the time to prime and paint the end grain before installing.
I prime or buy preprimed and paint all my trim before installing.
Where those piece but together they also should have been cut at a 45 deg. angle not not just butted.

When you do go to add beaded vinyl soffit for a great look go with the Soffit cove trim for the outside edges.
Gives a nice finished look.
http://www.certainteed.com/resources/cts154.pdf


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

joecaption said:


> Should be able to just go up in the attic to see what's going on.


There's a wall that separates the soffit area from the attic area. There's only about 6inches on top and 6 on bottom that are open to see through, and at the angle of the roof, it would be impossible to see. I think my best approach is to pull the fascia board off and look inside.



Roofgroup said:


> If I was replacing the soffit area under your porch I would first cut an access hole to visually inspect what is going on in there. Those posts might not even be supporting anything. Best way to find out is to open it up and look.
> 
> Then plan your next move or ask the next question. We are here to help.
> Goodluck.


You are absolutely correct. Thank you.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If the post are under the soffit plywood---they are unlikely to be load bearing---

If the soffit ply is cut around them --then they may be load bearing----

As others have said----cut a hole and look---see if there is a girder above the post---


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

oh'mike said:


> If the post are under the soffit plywood---they are unlikely to be load bearing---
> 
> If the soffit ply is cut around them --then they may be load bearing----
> 
> As others have said----cut a hole and look---see if there is a girder above the post---


The soffit is not cut around them. It'll be 4 days before I can get back to work on it, so I will find out then. Thanks for the help!


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If they were installed after the soffit ply---you are very likely to be fine removing them---

do check---but if the roof was self supporting long enough for the exterior trim work to be installed--then posts added that are not firmly tied into the framing---the odds are the posts are not structural----- but--do open up the soffit and check-----


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

oh'mike said:


> If they were installed after the soffit ply---you are very likely to be fine removing them---
> 
> do check---but if the roof was self supporting long enough for the exterior trim work to be installed--then posts added that are not firmly tied into the framing---the odds are the posts are not structural----- but--do open up the soffit and check-----


I'll definately check first before removing anything. I also need to order the bases for the bottoms. Thanks again!


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

not totally sure but it looks as though the beam for the porch/roof goes from outside corner of garage across (over top)where the posts are and then has bearing over by the wall next to front door. ?? the roof rafters could have a knee wall off of the beam to hold them up otherwise what exactly is holding the roof up there across the porch? is that roof line sag in the framing or just incorrectly installed fascia?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

hand drive said:


> not totally sure but it looks as though the beam for the porch/roof goes from outside corner of garage across (over top)where the posts are and then has bearing over by the wall next to front door. ?? the roof rafters could have a knee wall off of the beam to hold them up otherwise what exactly is holding the roof up there across the porch? is that roof line sag in the framing or just incorrectly installed fascia?


That sag is the fascia's.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

r0ckstarr said:


> That sag is the fascia's.



the fascia couuld be getting rotten from the valley leaking, if you see the underside of the plywood on the roof wet when you pull the fascia (open rafter tail without sub fascia). though the rot is most likely from blowing wind while the valley dumps water, the drip edge looks to be in question as well- the shingles should stick past the drip edge at least a little bit more than they are there.


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## Larryh86GT (Feb 2, 2013)

If the columns are support there wouldn't there be a steel pipe in them?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I assume it is safe to say that they do not offer any support. I just pulled the fascia off.

Next to the split 2x4, you can see nails coming up through the soffit. It looks like someone ran the nails through the top of the column at an angle to hold it in place.


IMGP4231 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr


IMGP42312 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

r0ckstarr said:


> I assume it is safe to say that they do not offer any support. I just pulled the fascia off.


Well that sucks. It just made that job a whole lot easier. :thumbsup:


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

hammerlane said:


> Well that sucks. It just made that job a whole lot easier. :thumbsup:


:laughing: Haha, yeah!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Being that my access to those nails is very limited, are there any suggestions on how to remove the column? I can't reach them with a reciprocating saw, and trying to hammer them back out is just out of my reach. I have no access to them from inside the attic. I took a scrap piece of wood and put it up against the bottom of the column, then started lightly hitting it with a rubber mallet. I shifted the column, but then decided it was best that I ask first.


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

r0ckstarr said:


> Being that my access to those nails is very limited, are there any suggestions on how to remove the column? I can't reach them with a reciprocating saw, and trying to hammer them back out is just out of my reach. I have no access to them from inside the attic. I took a scrap piece of wood and put it up against the bottom of the column, then started lightly hitting it with a rubber mallet. I shifted the column, but then decided it was best that I ask first.



carefully rock the column back and forth which should give you enough room to slide a saws all blade to cut.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

framer52 said:


> carefully rock the column back and forth which should give you enough room to slide a saws all blade to cut.


Thanks. I'll try that right now.


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

Just cut the plywood around the post since you are going to replace it anyway.

I'm wondering.... It looks like that post is located directly under that beam. I wonder if at one time, it actually supported the beam. It seems like that beam isn't overly large to span a fairly long distance, and it looks like it is supporting at least a portion of the roof over the patio.

Any thoughts from the experts on that?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I followed framer52's advice on rocking it and cutting the nails. The column is out. It wasn't offering any support at all. 

Unfortunately, I need a new column. This one has soft spots of rot about 6-8 inches up from the bottom. The column is also what appears to be three 2x6's glued together to make a 6x6 square, then turned on a wood lathe to make the shape. As I was carrying it to the garage, the glue let go on part of it and it started to split. I could glue and screw it back together, but like I said, it has some rot.

When I put the new column in, I will put it under a beam, just be safe.


Edit. I didn't realize it was getting so late in the day. (2hrs of sunlight left). I haven't pulled the old soffit down yet, so I will do that tomorrow. I've been cutting and fitting the fascia boards in between primer / paint coats on the new soffit board. I'll probably tack up the fascia's to keep critters out overnight, then get started at sun up tomorrow morning. This will also give me some time to go to the local hardware stores and see if I can find a matching column.

Why has it taken me all day to do this little job? I have a girlfriend who won't stop asking questions and worrying that the house is going to fall down. :laughing: 


shesdrivingmecrazy!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Showing the rot at the bottom.


IMGP4232 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

The soft spots:


IMGP4233 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

And where it started to separate while I was carrying it.

IMGP4234 by r0ckstarr, on Flickr

I'd say this one is done, and needs to be replaced.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

those certainly look like decorative posts in your situation -optional porch detail... were both posts toenailed to the plywood soffit ? looks like that beam in the pic catches some of the weight for the rafters where they go from the ridge and land across the exterior wall extending out to form the roof edge but those posts would have only helped hold up the soffit in that one spot. good thing you caught it, soon the posts would have been hanging by the nails and pulling down the soffit..


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Those are rather common items-----any good lumber yard will have those in stock or could get them for you in a few days------


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks. Being that they don't offer any support, I am going to finish the soffit and fascia board, then go find another column later today.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Finished everything including primer this afternoon. All that is left is paint. Thanks for the help and info. I wasn't sure how to go about it at first.


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## kimberland30 (Jan 22, 2008)

If you have a chance, could you please post a picture of what you did to the base of the column you replaced? We had a similar issue with our porch posts rotting at the bottom and they are now supported by ugly concrete blocks. Did you use the post bases that JoeCaption posted? That might be a solution for us and I wanted to see how it worked out for you.

Thanks!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

kimberland30 said:


> If you have a chance, could you please post a picture of what you did to the base of the column you replaced? We had a similar issue with our porch posts rotting at the bottom and they are now supported by ugly concrete blocks. Did you use the post bases that JoeCaption posted? That might be a solution for us and I wanted to see how it worked out for you.
> 
> Thanks!


Sure. Here's the thread detailing the repair.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/porch-column-repair-175268/


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## kimberland30 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yay, thank you so much! That thread didn't come up when I did a search.


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