# Question About Ladder Weight Ratings



## jimn (Nov 13, 2010)

I weight 245 and barely feel comfortable on type II . A type III kind of feels like I could to the frat crush it against my head stunt. I won't get on anything less than a type I anymore


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

A fully extended type I, IA, IAA will not flex much if at all in the middle 24'-40'. It's a sign of exceeding the weight limit. 

I'd get a different ladder. The more you use it the sturdier it needs to be.


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## Bloxxy (Apr 7, 2015)

I would definitely agree with what the others have said. From what I've seen the ladders aren't 'conservatively' weighted, in fact they've been pretty bang on. Not a chance I'd be using that ladder at your weight. Hospital bills are far more expensive than a ladder my friend!


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

I could tell you what weight they actually test the ladder for but I suspect it will only encourage you to use a ladder that is not intended to carry the load you would subject it too.

Be safe and get a ladder designed for the intended load.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Recent discussion with some good information:

http://www.diychatroom.com/f29/choosing-ladder-204623/


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Even if it does not break climbing a piece of wet spaghetti is not fun.
That is hte weight when fully extended. Leave it doubled up and consider it a 12' ladder.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

I would buy a better ladder. Those 200lb ladder feel like a rubber band when you extend them


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

well, somebody told you wrong. This is from Werner (on of the major ladder companies)




> Ladders are designed and constructed to safely hold up to a specific amount of weight. Werner ladders come in five different Duty Ratings identified by their grade and type. The Duty Rating is defined as the maximum safe load capacity of the ladder. A person's fully clothed weight plus the weight of any tools and materials that are carried onto the ladder must be less than the duty rating.


the rating is the max weight the ladder is designed to hold.


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## Helmet (Dec 15, 2009)

I just started my second year or recovery (it will be 18 months total) from falling off a ladder that wasn't appropriate for the job I was doing. I had a tibial plateau fracture, tore my meniscus and my ACL. This after twenty years experience in the trades as well as being a firefighter.

USE THE APPROPRIATE LADDER FOR THE JOB!! Just my two cents.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Helmet said:


> USE THE APPROPRIATE LADDER FOR THE JOB!! Just my two cents.


a bit late to the party but well worth the wait. There isn't much better in making a point that saying; This is what happened to me because...


hope you heal well from the injuries (although I know realistically you will never be the same as before)


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## jimfarwell (Nov 25, 2014)

This is an old thread. I should likely leave well enough alone...but no. Gotta toss in my two cents worth of opinion (NOT fact, just opinion).

The U.S. gov't has long progressed toward becoming a complete nanny state. They force companies to comply with regulations that require testing of a product to the maximum stress levels (a good idea), and then force the company to state weight limits, load limits, whatever, which are way less than the product's actual failure point.

Sure, to a degree, that's wise. But they take it to extremes. Example -- in an emergency situation, high in the Cascades, we had to tow a broken-down '92 Jeep Wrangler out to the highway (where AAA would take over) -- the biggest chain we had was rated at only 1,250 pounds, and that was for TOWING, not lifting. Tricked out, that Jeep had a curb weight of about 3,300 pounds, and there was the driver and other stuff in it that weighed another 350. We didn't have near enough chain to double up, so we crossed our fingers and went for it. And it wasn't a smooth, easy tow, either. Lots of jerking and side-ways wrenching. No problem -- chain wasn't damaged, deformed, stretched or anything.

I know, that's just anecdotal, not probative. If the same exercise were run 10 times with the same vehicle and the same chain, the chain might snap 7 out of 10. Like I said, I know. But this is just one story out of at least a dozen IN MY EXPERIENCE where stated load limits have been exceeded by 200% or more, without a problem.

My point? Because of gov't oversight, and the willingness of U.S. consumers to sue for damages under any pretext, companies have vastly understated the limits of their products. This is partly due to the fact that people continue to use old frayed rope or badly rusted chain or beat-up old ladders LONG, LONG after they should have been replaced...and will still file suits against the manufacturer of their (whatever) which has had little or no maintenance, and has been allowed to deteriorate to the point where it is obviously useless...but they use it anyway. So the manufacturers are playing CYA -- who can blame them?

But if you buy a ladder new, and take care of it, it is my opinion that you can safely exceed the weight capacity (you, your clothes & boots, your tools, etc) by 40% and have no fear.

I weigh 250. With clothes and a Paslode nailer, that goes up to maybe 265. I've used my Werner type III for 15 years without a problem. Yes, if it's fully extended, I can feel the side-rails flexing a bit, but there are no stress cracks or permanent bends. The rungs feel solid as a rock. So I'll continue to use it. Maybe I'm pushing my luck, but so far I've had no signs that I'm endangering myself.

Just my opinion.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've worked off of ladders all my life and a stouter ladder is better no matter how much you weight. One of the biggest issues with the type III ladders is they wear quicker and get wobbly.


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## jimfarwell (Nov 25, 2014)

mark sr said:


> I've worked off of ladders all my life and a stouter ladder is better no matter how much you weight. One of the biggest issues with the type III ladders is they wear quicker and get wobbly.


I don't doubt that you are right. I've had the ladder since 2003, but haven't used it all that much...maybe 20-30 times? And seldom at full extension. It's kept in the garage, so little-to-no oxidation, I've used a bit of PTFE silicone grease between the rails to smooth it out, and oiled the spring-loaded hooks. Honest, it still feels like new. But I'll keep your opinion in mind...as a pro painter, you should know.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

So would the world be a better place if there were no product safety standards? Manufacturers would be free to build anything to any standard and leave it to the consumer to decide if it safe? How many people can look at a ladder and determine that it will hold them? Yes, you could sue them if they labelled it for 200lb and it failed at 150 - from your wheelchair.

Every now and again you read about a building collapsing in some third world country. I guess the tenants should have inspected it before they moved in. _Caveat emptor._

No doubt government regulators and manufacturers are risk-averse because of law suits, but lines have to be drawn in setting safety standards.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

The Lockheed L1011 Tristar had an elevator system in it to move from the lower galley to the main seating floor. I had a need to go to the galley once (I worked there) and entered the elevator, turned around to the two switches to lower it, and there was a big notice "weight limit 150 lbs". It was apparently meant for meal carts and lightweight flight attendants, not 230 lb bruisers. That was a shocking moment for me.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Ratings are reduced for equipment tested as new because when the equipment is used in service it is not necessarily in as-new condition. Your Jeep tow chain probably has an as-new actual capacity of 2,500 lb but is only rated for 1,250 lb because the manufacturer can't guarantee you haven't maintained it in good condition—maybe you left it out in the rain too much and the links are all rusted, etc.


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## jimfarwell (Nov 25, 2014)

I've read all your posts that support capacity limits. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I accept that there are good arguments for testing and for rating products with a load limit.

But my original point, though it may have been poorly stated, was that there are equally good reasons to believe that you can safely exceed the rated limits, BUT ONLY IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MET:

1. You bought the product new, not used with an unknown damage or maintenance record.
2. You have done preventive maintenance on a reasonable schedule.
3. You know what the rated limit is, and use common sense (judgment) in deciding to exceed that limit.
4. You carefully watch for signs of deterioration or failure during use.

And have I always met all of these, my own, criteria when exceeding a rated limit? Well...no. I haven't. But I've come pretty close on most occasions, and only ignored the criteria when I believed I had no other choice than to use what was available.

If you think I haven't given consideration to your opinions...yesterday I bought a new "20-foot" extension ladder. No, it's not a type I or IA, but at least it's a type II. I tested it at full extension right at the store. Standard is the old 1:4 rule -- one foot away from the wall for each four feet of height. Fully extended the ladder is only 13 feet and change. I placed the ladder's feet six feet from the wall, and the top of the ladder hit the wall at right about 12 feet, so I had a 1:2 ratio. I went half way up with my toolbox, so total weight was about 270. Then I flexed my knees several times in sort of a half jump. I could feel only a tiny amount of bounce in the side rails.

I know it's rated limit is 225 pounds total weight, but I felt secure on it, so I bought it. I couldn't see any need to spend an extra $50 for a type I, and have to handle the extra weight. I'll keep the old type III for other (lighter) folks to use, or when I don't need to extend it much.

I may still be in denial of what many of you consider to be reasonable standards...but at least I seem to be going in the right direction, no?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The taller a lightweight ladder is extended the worse it feels. Once I worked off of a 28' type III ladder and hope I never have to again! I do own 2 type II ladders, a 16' and a 20' Both are over 20 yrs old and still in great shape. All the rest of my ladders are type I or type IA If I'm not mistaken all my ladders are Werners.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> But my original point, though it may have been poorly stated, was that there are equally good reasons to believe that you can safely exceed the rated limits, BUT ONLY IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MET:


No, you cannot safely exceed the limits. Yes, you might get away using it over limit for a long time.

Using the ladder properly and within it’s rated capacity is the definition of using it safely. You can’t change that, no matter what argument you attempt to use.


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## jimfarwell (Nov 25, 2014)

Oso954 said:


> No, you cannot safely exceed the limits. Yes, you might get away using it over limit for a long time.
> 
> Using the ladder properly and within it’s rated capacity is the definition of using it safely. You can’t change that, no matter what argument you attempt to use.


You're certainly entitled to your opinion. And I'm entitled to mine. I firmly believe that manufacturers, for whatever reason, greatly UNDER-state the weight limits for products, for all the reasons we've discussed: fear of lawsuits, worry that owners will use old and deteriorated items, etc.

You made the statement: "you cannot safely exceed the limits." If you preceded that with "In my opinion," then I have no argument with you.

Sincerely...have a great day!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Let me put it this way, the lightweight ladders wear out or loosen up a LOT quicker than the heavier duty one. That means while a heavy duty ladder will feel secure, a light duty ladder will feel less and less secure the more it is used. I suspect the weight of the user will accelerate the ladder's decline. I was under 200lbs most of my working life and while I usually feel safe on an extended 40' ladder, I never felt safe on an extended 20' type III ladder.


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

jimfarwell said:


> ...Gotta toss in my two cents worth of opinion (NOT fact, just opinion).
> 
> The U.S. gov't has long progressed toward becoming a complete nanny state....force the company to state weight limits, load limits, whatever, which are way less than the product's actual failure point.


Not even close. This "nanny state" cry is the biggest load of BS ever. As has been mentioned already there is no way for everyone to have the time to personally inspect and test every product or structure we come across every day to determine it's safety let alone its suitability. The standards are there for a reason. Plug in your phone to a USB outlet and you have a reasonable expectation it won't blow up. Enter a building and you have a reasonable expectation it won't fall down on you. 
The building code is there mostly as a reaction to horrific tragedies. Fires that kill hundreds of people, deck collapses, electrocutions, all are why we have a code and enforcement of it. 


jimfarwell said:


> ...the biggest chain we had was rated at only 1,250 pounds, and that was for TOWING, not lifting. Tricked out, that Jeep had a curb weight of about 3,300 pounds...No problem -- chain wasn't damaged, deformed, stretched or anything.
> 
> I know, that's just anecdotal, not probative. If the same exercise were run 10 times with the same vehicle and the same chain, the chain might snap 7 out of 10. Like I said, I know. But this is just one story out of at least a dozen IN MY EXPERIENCE where stated load limits have been exceeded by 200% or more, without a problem.


So, what if the chain had no rating on it at all? Would you have exercised that same level of caution? Would you have gotten under it? Would you feel good about working under that chain holding 3,000lbs over your head every day? Maybe it'd hold. Maybe it wouldn't. The rating is there to let you know how to use it and how not to use it.



jimfarwell said:


> My point? Because of gov't oversight, and the willingness of U.S. consumers to sue for damages under any pretext, companies have vastly understated the limits of their products...


No, the companies state the intended range of use of the product. You've probably seen the photos of some guy in India putting his whole family on a moped. It worked, but it's not the intended safe use. The load ratings are the same. You might get by overdoing it, but it's not what it's designed for. Get a minivan instead of a moped. 


jimfarwell said:


> But if you buy a ladder new, and take care of it, it is my opinion that you can safely exceed the weight capacity (you, your clothes & boots, your tools, etc) by 40% and have no fear.


But what happens at 41%? Should we have some fear then? Are we all going to die at 42%? That's the problem with setting our own arbitrary limits. The product has been tested under many scenarios to determine it's duty rating. Yes, you can overdo it and survive, but how many times have we seen overloaded trucks wrecked on the side of the road? How many times have people been hurt from disregarding the limits?



jimfarwell said:


> Just my opinion.


Yep. Opinion.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> I firmly believe that manufacturers, for whatever reason, greatly UNDER-state the weight limits for products,


No, they have a rated capacity, and a safety factor before presumed failure. The point of failure moves downward over time and with wear and tear.

Any time you exceed the rated limit you are reducing the safety factor at least numerically. In some cases, you are also accelerating wear and tear.

Reducing the safety factor by choice, increases the chances of you having an accident. You can do that if you wish, just make sure your health and life insurance have large values, and are paid up.

Meanwhile, I’ll buy the slightly more costly ladder and tolerate the small difference in ladder weight. It’s some of the “cheapest insurance” you can buy.

Next time you are in that store, try the same “test” of the type 2 that you bought vs a type 1A. It might change your mind on the subject.


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

We once rented an industrial building to a machinist... Super nice guy... Anyways, he died. changing a light bulb. 

He was a heavy set man, on a 10ft Aluminum step ladder. no warning the ladder kinked, he fell, and cracked his head open, dead on impact.

According to OSHA, thats the danger of aluminium ladders, theres no warning of failure, they just fail.

We no longer use aluminum extension ladders over 20' And all of our ladders are 1A ladders. 

unless your a short skinny chick, anything under 1a classification is a death wish.

Especially if your getting high... sure fiberglass weighs more to carry... but less chance of death. And scrappers wont be interested.


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## mrlabradog (Jan 25, 2019)

Advising someone that it's your "opinion" that exceeding the rated safety limit of a product is OK, especially something like a ladder which could be deadly if it fails, is reckless and dangerous. And that 's not my "opinion", that's a fact. Good grief!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I do not like aluminum stepladders!!! I've seen more than one bend the legs. I had one buckle and throw me off but at least I was young and could still bounce  All my stepladders are either wood or fiberglass.


I do like aluminum extension ladders, they are so much easier to use than the wooden extension ladders we used to use!


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## Titebudget (Dec 11, 2019)

For those who can't afford $300 to $500 for a fiberglass type I, there are ways to properly and safely reinforce a ladder's rails and weak point. I know lot's of you would laugh, scoff or puke at the idea, but sound 2x6's strongly lashed to the sides with at least 8 heavy duty stainless steel adjustable ring clamps or U bolts on each side tightened down solid with a wrench will counteract the bending. The middle section can be supported with 2x6's double-bolted to those on the side & extending to the ground secured with heavy stakes hammered deep in the ground to make immoveable vertical weight bearing supports. Angle the ladder steeply enough so the weight transfers downward to the feet instead of stressing the middle section. It's basically a strong 2x6 reinforcement frame thoroughly secured up the sides and anchored additionally in the ground as a support for a less expensive though well made 16' or 20' extension ladder. Over 20', call a pro or save up & get the right ladder for you and the job. 
If all this effort and planning is too ridiculous or you don't have the patience or experience to engineer the solution, then just start saving for that beautiful new heavy duty fiberglass model that you'll have all your life. Start with what you'd otherwise spend on those 2x6's and U-bolts. 
What's the big hurry anyway, buddy, versus staying safe and out of the hospital???


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

If you weigh close to 250lbs, and cant afford a 1A ladder, can you afford the ER bill and the on going medical treatment if you survive the fall?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

That Guy said:


> If you weigh close to 250lbs, and cant afford a 1A ladder, can you afford the ER bill and the on going medical treatment if you survive the fall?





The odds are a fairly new ladder won't fail if over loaded but it will wear out quicker. Plus the heavier duty ladders are more stable. Even when I was young and lightweight, I felt comfortable on most any type I ladder but would be nervous when on top of a type III ladder.


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

You wont see me on a type 3 ladder over 6'


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I prefer not to use a type III ladder of any size!


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