# can a newbie finish a basement...



## Tscarborough (Mar 31, 2006)

Certainly you can. It is hard work, but it is also very rewarding. The best part is the plan and design, and the worst is some of the slug work that must be done; pure muscle labor.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Agree with Tscarborough....

Some key points are: planning, foresight, research, design, eye for detail, good communication & organizational skills, patience, etc...

If you are a homeowner and have such natural abilities, then you can do it...:thumbsup:


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

Thank you for the quick reply.... I want to say I have almost all of the abilities stated and I might probably use this as my work out for a while . I am working on a floor plan, and some 3D diagrams as well, I will be posting them shortly so I ask more questions.

In the main time, here are some questions I have in mind. In the picture I can obviously see that they have polystyrene insulation put on the wall. 

My question is how far from the insulation do I start mounting the frame.... 

secondly, can I assemble, the frame on the floor and lift it into place?


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

I was working on posting a picture but it is not ready yet. Sorry... but I post it soon


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

If I can do, anybody can do it.:laughing:


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## jcrampton (Mar 28, 2007)

*newbie and basements*

I agree with YM, if she can do it, anyone can  

Seriously though, you just need to know when to hire out certain things. If you don't feel comfortable doing a certain job, get some "professional" estimates and compare that with the DIY price (don't forget to factor in "inconvience time"). I, for one, didn't feel too comfortable moving around supply lines and connecting new drain lines, so I hired out. I wanted to add a new bathroom. However, I didn't want to turn my newly remodeled basement into an indoor pool. So, I went the "safe" route and hired a highly-experienced plumber. He let me do the grunt work of jackhammering, which saved me $500+.

I also had the electrical box upgraded so it could handle all the new wiring. Friends and family gave me conflicting opinions on DIY, but I ended up going the "professional" route again. Of course all the interior wiring I'm doing myself.


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## jcrampton (Mar 28, 2007)

*enlarging windows*

If your basement is a walk-out, this step is a little easier vs. a fully below grade basement.

A concrete cutting contractor will charge you at least $500 to just show up. I wanted to enlarge the 3 windows in my walk-out, and decided I didn't want to fork over the $1000-2000 they wanted. So, I rented a concrete saw with diamond blade for a day for $80. My brother and I knocked the job out in 6 hours.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*jcrampton*



jcrampton said:


> I agree with YM, if she can do it, anyone can
> 
> 
> You do stand up too?


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## jcrampton (Mar 28, 2007)

watch out or I'll reopen the vapor barrier issue!


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Atlantic won't be happy.

And by the way, my vapor barrier issue was not my issue. It was Atlantic and someone else.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

yummy mummy said:


> Atlantic won't be happy.
> 
> And by the way, my vapor barrier issue was not my issue. It was Atlantic and someone else.


you started it...:tt2:


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*atlantic*

I'm a bad mummy......:laughing:


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

*This is the picture of the basement*

This it picture of the basement... I have not started with it yet I am currently working on the exterior paint job and I am almost do. The house is radiant heated so there are not too many pipes down there. I dont want to make any holes in the floor or in the wall to fasten the frame... what are my options. As you can see the place is very dry, and I want to make sure I leave it like that .


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Looks like a very nice large space.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

That will make a great family/game room. lots of room and lots of ceiling height. Have fun.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

konboy said:


> This it picture of the basement... I have not started with it yet I am currently working on the exterior paint job and I am almost do. The house is radiant heated so there are not too many pipes down there. I dont want to make any holes in the floor or in the wall to fasten the frame... what are my options. As you can see the place is very dry, and I want to make sure I leave it like that .


Your in for a project :thumbsup: 
To fasten the walls with no holes in the floor might be an issue. You would be best with a tapcon every 24" into the concrete through a PT 2x4 and screw into the floor joists above with the header. Also use heavy duty liquid nails on the floor. You might want to double up on the base plate as it makes adding baseboard allot easier. You can use a standard 2x4 over the pt one on the floor. place some building paper between them so they don't interact with the pt. Make the walls tight top to bottom and shim where needed to do so. Leave a 1" dead air space between the wall and the block. fill the 2x4 with R13 and your all set. I allow for drainage where there might be water like a wet area, furnace etc by either drilling a passage way on the bottom of the base plate or cutting a notch there.
Have fun and ask question if you run into them.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

Thank you fellows... I will let you all know when I get started with this project. I am traveling a lot for work right now so I dont even want to get started now. 

Thank you all, I am sure I come back with more questions


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## Webguy64 (Apr 4, 2007)

*Basement pic*

Judging by your basement pic, it looks like you have a nice big open space. Lucky you! I'm just starting my basement and have to navigate around a bunch of pipes, ducts, etc. 

I had the same question as you about whether I could handle a DIY project that big. I guess I'll find out (although I'm planning to sub out some of the stuff).

I'm also working on a Web site that I hope will be helpful to people like us. I'm making it a chronicle of my progress, providing lots of tips and resources to help with the various phases of the project. I'll post a link as soon as it's "live".


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

looks like a large place and should be relatively easier to do considering there is no painful pipes on the ceiling for the painful soffets.... and relatively simple square area...... you definitely can do this .... all you need is time and an interests in your blood.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*webguy*

That's a great idea (the web site).

Looking forward to seeing it.


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Looks like from the pictures you have a relatively easy space to work with.

Is that a sump pump or a sewer clean out on the left side of your picture? Easiest, IMO, would be to just jog your wall into the room for just enough distance then back again and installing a small pre-hung door to access that area. Like this

|
|_
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|-
|


I would try and incorporate the two posts near the stairs into a wall that ran along the stairs. Put a door in that wall to access the area behind the stairs.

I would then build another wall, incorporating the post on the left of your picture, to enclose your boiler room. Use the area behind and to the right of your stairs as unfinished storage, the boiler room as an unfinished boiler room. Keep the rest all open. You can easily add walls to divide it up later if you need to. 

Good luck


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## robertcdf (Nov 12, 2005)

Not to be a jerk or anything... But I am kind of picky about these things. Have you gotten a permit yet? If not you should apply to get that as early as possible. Sometimes it might take a while to get it. You may also want to ask questions about what kind of inspections will be required. Whatever you do please do not skip out on the permiting process. This will only come back and bite you later on. And that may result in fines and may require you to cut holes in walls so they can see what has been done and if it meets code.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

I have not get a permit yet but i intend on getting one. Right now, I am just waiting for some more rain... Since it is a new place, I am just trying to figure out if I am going to have any moisture problems. So far it has been rainning a lot and not yet.


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## WilbUild (Apr 6, 2007)

jcrampton said:


> I, for one, didn't feel too comfortable moving around supply lines and connecting new drain lines, so I hired out. I wanted to add a new bathroom. However, I didn't want to turn my newly remodeled basement into an indoor pool. So, I went the "safe" route and hired a highly-experienced plumber. He let me do the grunt work of jackhammering, which saved me $500+.
> 
> 
> > This is what I'm talking about. DIYers and pros working together.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

WilbUild: how much did you end up paying...?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

robertcdf said:


> .... You may also want to ask questions about what kind of inspections will be required. ...


 
This is a very good suggestion. I write this because every town or city seems to have their own particular requirement areas that they like to be extra diligent (picky) about. 
What I mean is that they obviosuly want everything done to code, however, there a certain matters that they specifically "Want to see done"...or done a certain way...

Example:

http://nashua.qscend.com/filestorage/51/70/151/Basement_Handout.pdf


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

*3D view....*

There is only on roughing for half bath, what do you guys know or think about this http://www.saniflo.com/products/sanibest.asp. Bellow is what I was hoping to do with the place.

Please let me know what you think.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Where's the big screen TV and Home theater going? Where are you putting the bar? The Pool table and the slot machines?


:wink:


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

*Per request (Atlantic)*


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

*Calculating Framing materail...*










I would want to do this two rooms first.... room A is 13 x 10 and room B is 13 x 20. At 16" apart, are my estimates for approx. 75 pieces of 2x4 (+_ 3) accurate? I know I will need some Top and Bottom plates as well.... Anything else that I will need?


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Framing layout*

Just a few notes:

- Your plan with dimensions (from page to of this thread) indicates the bathroom at the lower left corner. You placed the bathroom fixtures in where it's labeled work-out room. 

- In picture, what is sticking out of the floor near the lower left corner (according to the dimensioned plan)?

- The 2 plans are different, which one is more current?

- Make sure you locate where the existing beam posts are. The plan with the dimensions shows a door opening right where there is a post!

- Did you take in account king studs and trimmers at the doors?

- At wall intersects you need:
-Intermediate wall = 3 studs
-Inside corner = 3 studs
-Outside corner = 2 studs

- Did you figure in top plates?

- Did you figure in bottom plates?

- Door headers?

- Where are your existing beam posts?

- Good reference book for you to use is: Remodeling a Basement by Roger German (ISBN #: 1-56158-659-5) book will help you with the framing layout and bill of materials ....along with everything else. :thumbsup:


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

I will take care of the floor plan and put some better labeling up.


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*One other item to not overlook*

Depending on your local codes, you may need to install fire blocking in your walls. The 2x4 segments will add up with the number of walls you have.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Regarding the amount of stock you will need for the walls: 
Realize that you will need alot more than the numbers you might come up with by dividing the 16" OC into each wall segment. You need extra for the corners - to properly tie them in so your sheetrock will not crack there. You will need extra for each door openings (double the sides and top area up - for your casing). 

FWIW: Here's a concept that wastes time and money in basement remodels:
Often people will 'overframe' the walls in the process of finishing off their basements.
The home is already properly supported. The walls being built in the basement are not load bearing. So each wall is really a non load-bearing 'partition'.
Thus, you can use screws (if you wanted to) to assemble the 2x4's and other framing members as there are no shear-strength requirements.
Also, there is no need to fabricate and install structural headers into the doorways.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

Since the walls are not load bearing what is the the downside in spacing by 24". "ATLANTIC": you said " You need extra for the corners - to properly tie them in so your sheetrock will not crack there." what does that mean... ? 

Please explain if you can... and a simple picture will do just perfect


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

In my opinion its too chopped up. I cant read all the labels in your first floor plan. i suppose it depends on your intended uses. i see you want a bath but its through the living room to get to it from the bed room. They should be adjacent so if you have a full time occupant in the bed room they do not need to trapse through living room to get to the bath. Also, the door entering the room on the bottom right of your last drawing should hinge on the other side so it opens against the wall. Same for the third room from the left, top half of the drawing. The door into the room on the bottom right should be away from the stair wall enough to get trim around it.


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Wall framing how-to, examples, framing corners*



konboy said:


> Since the walls are not load bearing what is the the downside in spacing by 24". "ATLANTIC": you said " You need extra for the corners - to properly tie them in so your sheetrock will not crack there." what does that mean... ?
> 
> Please explain if you can... and a simple picture will do just perfect


Hope this helps you ...remember that book I mentioned will help you in all aspects of the project.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/buildingwallstudwind

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/energycode/Forms_code/RmanFraming.pdf

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/printpage.asp?article_id=60256

http://www.tpub.com/engbas/6-13.htm

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/newhome/article/0,16219,217320-1,00.html

http://www.rd.com/familyhandyman/content/17480/0/

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/framecarp/remodel/partition1/alcove.htm

http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projects/framing/frame_4.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)

http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I like to use steel studs in a basement. Easy to work with, all straight, low weight, holes in it for the wiring. Only thing is the higher cost. But the ease at which you can set it up, well worth the extra money. There is a slight learning curve and a few extra safety steps, such as a face shield and hat for cutting. 
My 12 year old son was cutting these and fabricating the soffit boxes. He came away with all his fingers and most of his red blood cells.
Ron


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Poster said:
"I would want to do this two rooms first.... room A is 13 x 10 and room B is 13 x 20. At 16" apart, are my estimates for approx. 75 pieces of 2x4 (+_ 3) accurate? I know I will need some Top and Bottom plates as well.... Anything else that I will need?"

Just calculate 1 stud for each linear foot of wall. Much easier. You'll use multiple studs around doors, windows, steel support beams and in corners.
Ron


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

AKDStorm,

Nice illustration to show how corners should be set up to properly attach the sheetrock to. 

I would not recommend spreading studs beyond 16 OC even on 'partition' walls. Obviously, your outside walls will need insulation in them. Also, you want studs every 16" to help attach your baseboard to....


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## warnerww (Apr 9, 2007)

The 16 inch center or 24 inch center issue has always been interesting to me. I have had inspectors that only wanted to see 16 they told me it it was stronger better the right way to do it. I had other inspectors say If you went 24 centers you could get more insulation in those walls. It really does not cost that much more to go 16 centers is their someone who has actually done some kind of study on this. I guess we could do the, what is it 19 and something center. You know that diamond on the tape measure that save you one whopping stud every 8 feet.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

AKDStorm,

I bought the book... I cant wait for it to come so I can start reading it. I am currently doing the moisture test. The first two days there was nothing and it has been raining a lot. 

I also have a side question. Since the house is radiant heated, how do I get the basement heated?


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## Brik (Jan 16, 2007)

Re basement heat. Radiant heat is nice but you wont want to bust up the slab. Maybe consult with the techs who service your system and ask them if there is capacity and capability to add a zone of hot water base boards. Hot water baseboards would make it real comfy.

I added one of these.







from
http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=335


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

If my calculation is correct, total area of the basement is approx 1000 sq. ft... for that I think there are too many rooms... but this is totally personal favour.... 


a nice drawing utility you have there... I bought something like that from the internet but it is a total waste of money for mine as it cannot draw such nice pictures you have there.......


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Ceiling Height?*

Not sure what your "finished" ceiling height would be, but most codes require 7'-0" clearance after flooring and ceiling is installed. There is a 6'-6" code for items like ducts, pipes, etc. but many details to fall within code for the lower height (and it's only at those locations).

I am in the process of planning my basement finishing in my newly purchased house and have come across a product which can significantly help those with height clearance issues and/or make a removable ceiling much simpler than suspended ceilings.

The product is called CeilingLink™ (http://www.kensa.com/). Take a look even if you have the height.

_The higher the ceiling, the bigger the room will feel._

I plan on using this once I get to that stage. My personal preference is to stay far away from drywall ceilings in the basement ...removable ceilings make it much easier to access the cables, pipes, etc.

Hope this helps anyone of interest  


Also links of installations using this product:

http://home.comcast.net/~otterbiker/ceiling.html

http://pagetuner.com/ceiling/

---------------
P.S. I find the Internet a great useful tool to help with this, along with publications at your side. I can't even imagine tackling this kind of work if the Internet didn't exist .......this forum being another valuable tool. :thumbup: ......only wished local building inspector website had more information, checklists, etc to help with prep on design/layout.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

This is looks like cool stuff, much better than the drop ceiling stuff from Armstrong.... but like any new products... it is yet to go through the real test cycle... but it looks good and sounds good from the link.... I wonder would it costs a lot though...


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

KUIPORNG said:


> This is looks like cool stuff, much better than the drop ceiling stuff from Armstrong.... but like any new products... it is yet to go through the real test cycle... but it looks good and sounds good from the link.... I wonder would it costs a lot though...


Also, don't forget the time savings.

http://www.kensa.com/pricing.htm - Pricing page

http://www.kensa.com/cl_calc.htm - Pricing Calculator

CeilingLink $3.90 per 8-foot length  L-Channel $2.90 per 8-foot length


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

*New Plan Fewer rooms*

I have made some changes based on some of the comments made. I am still fighting with the location of the bathroom in relation to the bedroom. All the drains are around where i have the bath room right. I dont want to break too much of the concrete. let me know what you think.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I think Armstrong has a reason to worry about this product... If I haven't done mine in drywall already, I would definitely give this a consideration... may be Yummy Mummy can think about this as she hasn't done her yet...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

If you could combine your laundry room with the bath room... it may be a good idea... as you get larger area to do laundry or taking a bath and very often... laundry plumbing and bath room plumbing on the same wall is easier to install and cost you less...


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

Ceiling looks pretty cool but how do you compensate for the areas with pipes and stuff?


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuiporng*

I just saw this new type of ceiling, and maybe I should consider it?

I have not done mine yet.
The only thing, I really don't like the look of the grooves in the panel.

I still may consider it though.


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Stairs????*



konboy said:


> I have made some changes based on some of the comments made. I am still fighting with the location of the bathroom in relation to the bedroom. All the drains are around where i have the bath room right. I dont want to break too much of the concrete. let me know what you think.


Something doesn't look right. This new plan is showing the stairs to the main floor more toward the center of the basement. Are you moving the staircase???? The new plan shows the bottom stair tread 19 feet out from left exterior wall.....previous plan shows 10 feet. Which plan is correct?  

Don't forget to locate those existing beam posts in your plan!


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*grooves?*



yummy mummy said:


> I just saw this new type of ceiling, and maybe I should consider it?
> 
> I have not done mine yet.
> The only thing, I really don't like the look of the grooves in the panel.
> ...


You mean the strips? I think it would be hard to tell from this and a drop ceiling ...unless you were thinking of going the drywall route.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

The stairs are 15ft from the back wall... as for he beam... I am going to put dry wall on both sides of it to hide it .


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

konboy said:


> The stairs are 15ft from the back wall... as for he beam... I am going to put dry wall on both sides of it to hide it .


15? the new plan show 19'.

I was suggesting that you draw in the post locations in plan so you know they will not be in a doorway, hallway, or right at a light switch or receptacle.


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

I guess I was in my own little world . I will try and put a new updated plan after I take some more accurate measurements of the basement. For some reason I think I messed up my measurements


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*other issues*

You have seemed to completely box in your furnace and hot water tank. How are you going to access this room?? I don't think you can access this room from the closet if you think that route.

Also, there are codes for minimum clearances around the heating systems and required air volume area for combustion.

Might be easier to do the plumbing if the sink was on the same wall as the shower and toilet.


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Expensive idea*

If you really want to go all out and be the cool one on the block install one of these doors:

http://www.hiddendoors.com/galleryThumb.asp?category=13

:wink: :thumbup:


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

This is a new one... I moved the bathroom  I think it will be worth it spending the extra cash let me know what you think...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

this is a good layout as you got yourself an ensuit bedroom... but then why you not open the door to the laundry room right besides the stairway rather than creating a small hallway ?


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

*Input*



konboy said:


> This is a new one... I moved the bathroom  I think it will be worth it spending the extra cash let me know what you think...


My guess looking at the picture is you have the door right at the furnace. How about locating the furnace and water heater in plan along with the posts. 

Your latest plan now has a bedroom without any closet. Are you exhibitionist and no need for clothing? /Joking/ 

Stair still at 19 feet  :wink: 

Toilet and shower on exterior wall. Do you plan on framing walls against the exterior walls? If not, your cold and hot water pipes will be exposed.

What about door in upper left wall of "machine" room? ...would the door swing miss the mechanical systems?


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

I will be framing the exterior wall so I don't think that will be a problem with the pipes...

STORMMAN: I changed the dimensions for you ...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*adkstorm*

Yes, sorry, I do mean the strips across.
I don't particularly like that.
But, first I am going to let my husband suffer and help me try to do the ceiling with drywall.

If that does not work out, then I may consider this type of ceiling.

Do you know the price of the panels?


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

yummy mummy said:


> Yes, sorry, I do mean the strips across.
> I don't particularly like that.
> But, first I am going to let my husband suffer and help me try to do the ceiling with drywall.
> 
> ...


The price varies depending on what you want for the panel style. The panels can be bought in cartons of X number of panels at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

Just keep in mind that you need to make sure you do not need to access anything above the proposed drywall area.....and be prepared to do more taping and mudding overhead.


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## beer_geek (Feb 19, 2007)

The only question I have(at this point) is bathroom access. Do you really want everyone going through the bedroom to get there?


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

beer_geek said:


> The only question I have(at this point) is bathroom access. Do you really want everyone going through the bedroom to get there?


 
I must admit beer geek, that is a really good point, (bathroom access).


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

Good point "beer_geek and yummy mummy"....

I think I will use the plan for the last one.I will just modify it a bit to allow more room in the machine room.

I have a question about the ceilingLink stuff... on their website, they say you can use 2x2 furring to go around pipes and stuff. For the furring do you mean just spacers or line the whole joist with 2x2?


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## ADKstorm (Dec 6, 2006)

konboy said:


> Good point "beer_geek and yummy mummy"....
> 
> I think I will use the plan for the last one.I will just modify it a bit to allow more room in the machine room.
> 
> I have a question about the ceilingLink stuff... on their website, they say you can use 2x2 furring to go around pipes and stuff. For the furring do you mean just spacers or line the whole joist with 2x2?


http://www.diychatroom.com/showpost.php?p=40438&postcount=29

Also, only spent 1 minute, but how about these options:
(beam posts need to be located in order to layout openings and doorways properly)


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## WilbUild (Apr 6, 2007)

warnerww said:


> The 16 inch center or 24 inch center issue has always been interesting to me. I have had inspectors that only wanted to see 16 they told me it it was stronger better the right way to do it. I had other inspectors say If you went 24 centers you could get more insulation in those walls. It really does not cost that much more to go 16 centers is their someone who has actually done some kind of study on this. I guess we could do the, what is it 19 and something center. You know that diamond on the tape measure that save you one whopping stud every 8 feet.


I'm not sure what code is down there, but I can't see how anyone would ever DREAM of hanging drywall on 24" centers. If you want joints that last a lifetime, especially those between your walls and ceiling, then go with 16" centers. One stud every 8' is pennies compared to a complete re-do in three years.


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## Webguy64 (Apr 4, 2007)

Just my 2 cents, but I wouldn't put the TV in a corner. You'll waste a lot of space (because of the corner), and the way you have it laid out there are no seats centered directly in front of it (best viewing position). Also, it makes it difficult to setup your surround sound speakers in the correct location (either astride or 120 degrees behind the listening position. Just my thoughts...


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## konboy (Mar 25, 2007)

With all the input, I am going to have to sit in the basement this weekend and draw up a new plan... hopefully i will answer most of the questions.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

konboy said:


> With all the input, I am going to have to sit in the basement this weekend and draw up a new plan... hopefully i will answer most of the questions.


Use it well, but just remember that no matter what you finally decide to do for a layout, there will always be more input here from posters on the forum :laughing: .


(make sure that you leave room for the beer tap station and beer-stein collection too.....:wink: )


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