# GFCI pops when Washer is plugged in



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

How old is the washing machine ?

I'd connect the ground, does the washer have a 3 prong plug ?


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## lisaz (Dec 15, 2008)

Washer is pretty new, within 3 years, LG front load high efficiency standard size (not the giant load ones). 

The washer does have three prongs, but so does everything else. The washing machine also works fine when I run an extension cord from another room with no problem. 

My room mate has had this rigged for a long time with an extension cord. I just want the extension cord gone now...

I'll try connecting the ground, but from what I've read (yup, even used the search function) a GFCI should not need a ground, or did I read this wrong?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If a ground is there it should be connected
A GFCI will work without a ground
The outlet needs to be marked "No ground present"
--these stickers come with the GFCI

Is the extension cord plugged into another GFCI outlet ?

Have you always had the washer at this location & this has always happened ?

The GFCI outlet pops (reset) ? Not the breaker right ?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Does the washing machine have a clock or other electronic controls?

I am guessing the obvious, there is a ground fault. Perhaps when some electronic device inside is on all the time and letting current return to ground instead of neutral, even when the cycle knob is off.

To test this theory, plug the washing machine in using a 3 to 2 prong adapter but not connecting the ground tab on the adapter to anything. Just for a few minutes. I would expect that the GFCI does not trip this time.


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

not good to run on extension cord


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## lisaz (Dec 15, 2008)

Alright, connected the ground, still no dice. Connected a power strip which was turned off, still, connecting the washer plug to the turned off power strip trips the GFCI. 



> not good to run on extension cord


That's why we're here:thumbsup:



> To test this theory, plug the washing machine in using a 3 to 2 prong adapter but not connecting the ground tab on the adapter to anything. Just for a few minutes. I would expect that the GFCI does not trip this time.


I'm assuming it's bad to keep running it with the adapter if it works?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

A GFCI is like a "bank teller" counting the electricity going out one prong and coming back in the other prong. (The flat prongs of the plug that is.)

If the same exact amount of electricity comes back that was "sent out", then the GFCI knows all is well and does not trip.

But if some of the electricity is "missing" and does not return on the other prong, then the GFCI sounds the "alarm" and cuts off power.

Some of that "missing" electricity could be going through a person's body and shocking them! And that is what a GFCI is designed to do, protect people from being shocked.

With that said, things with electric motors like washing machines tend to "leak" a little electricity. The motors can become dirty and wet, then electricity "leaks" from the electrical wires in the motor to the metal case of the motor. And from there to "ground" (the 3rd prong on the plug, to a water connection and the water pipes, or to the floor).

So the "right" thing for me to tell you to do would be to have the washing machine serviced.

As to the 3rd ground prong connection on the outlet, it is *very* important that you use this. Should there be a BIG leak of electricity to the metal case of the washing machine, this would cause the regular circuit breaker to turn off the electricity - protecting you from being shocked. A good thing!

So when you are testing different outlets and using an extention cord for testing, be sure to use a 3 prong cord without an adapter.


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

Excellent explanation, Billy Bob.


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

Does a leak in a washer explain why the gfci pops when not just the washer is off, but the power strip it is plugged into os off?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Washing machine plugged into power strip. Power strip plugged into GFCI receptacle. Power strip turned off.

The GFCI can still trip if other things on the circuit downstream of the GFCI are turned on even if not plugged into the same power strip. Power used by those other things can get between neutral and ground by coming over to the power strip on the neutral, out the neutral into the washing machine, through a ground fault in the latter, and back on the ground through the power strip. If nothing else on the circuit is turned on, you should not get a GFCI trip with the washing machine plugged into the powers strip turned off.

You will need to either fix the machine or use it on a non-GFCI receptacle. So long as the washing machine cabinet is grounded, it is safe to use even if a ground fault is in it. It would not be code compliant, though. The GFCI protects you when you use ungrounded (two prong) tools or other equipment or if the tool should somehow become ungrounded and you are touching metal parts of it.

You can make a redundant ground bonding for good measure by screwing a #14 or so single conductor wire to the machine cabinet with the other end connected to a known grounded object. (This will not bring the washing machine into code compliance.) Using the GFCI protected circuit with a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter plus running the external ground wire will still trip the GFCI.

A little leak of current to the washing machine cabinet is just as dangerous as a big leak since it can take less than a twentieth of an ampere to electrocute you.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Washing machines do not require GFCI protection. If the receptacle for the machine is within 6' of a sink then it must be a GFI. That being said, it is still strange that the GFCI is tripping. What brand is the GFCI? Is there another GFCI in the house that you plug the washer into via an extenion cord as test?


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

AllanJ said:


> Washing machine plugged into power strip. Power strip plugged into GFCI receptacle. Power strip turned off.
> 
> The GFCI can still trip if other things on the circuit downstream of the GFCI are turned on even if not plugged into the same power strip. Power used by those other things can get between neutral and ground by coming over to the power strip on the neutral, out the neutral into the washing machine, through a ground fault in the latter, and back on the ground through the power strip. If nothing else on the circuit is turned on, you should not get a GFCI trip with the washing machine plugged into the powers strip turned off.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining how a serious risk can be present even with equipment being off. It may not be a good idea, but until I get my garage wired I am running some power tools off of a power strip plugged in to the end of a gfci receptacle and I assumed there was no risk as long as the equipment was off. Now I know better.

I don't believe LisaZ indicated that anything else is "plugged into" the circuit. Could the power leak "downstream" be coming from a circuit for lighting or a ceiling fan coming off of the particular receptacle?


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> Washing machine plugged into power strip. Power strip plugged into GFCI receptacle. Power strip turned off.
> 
> The GFCI can still trip if other things on the circuit downstream of the GFCI are turned on even if not plugged into the same power strip. Power used by those other things can get between neutral and ground by coming over to the power strip on the neutral, out the neutral into the washing machine, through a ground fault in the latter, and back on the ground through the power strip. If nothing else on the circuit is turned on, you should not get a GFCI trip with the washing machine plugged into the powers strip turned off.
> 
> ...


Where did you come up with this information?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

New test.

Turn off everything on that branch circuit. Plug in the washing machine (no plug adapter).

If the GFCI does not trip this time with the machine still off, then it may be easier to service the machine. The electrician will then want to trace the inside of the machine starting with the neutral side, checking for abraded or pinched wires. This part you can do yourself, do a continuity check between the neutral prong and ground prong of the plug, although this does not prove anything if the machine has a clock or other electronic stuff that is on all the time.


brric said:


> Where did you come up with this information?


Draw a schematic diagram for the branch circuit including all items: power strip, GFCI, ceiling fan, etc. but not including the washing machine innards. (Treat the machine as a black box with three conductors going in: hot, neutral, ground.) Mark in a neutral to ground fault for the washing machine.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> New test.
> 
> Turn off everything on that branch circuit. Plug in the washing machine (no plug adapter).
> 
> ...


That's the fault in the machine, it has absolutely nothing to do with currents upstream or downstream.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

Actually what AllanJ is discussing is a "parallel circuit"...

And all this would be on the "plug side" of the GFCI.

So if there is just a neutral connected in the circuit, then all the electricity would flow through that neutral wire back to the GFCI.

However if you connect a ground to the neutral anywhere on the "plug side" of the GFCI (including the other outlet on the GFCI), then some electricity will flow to ground and not back through the GFCI.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> Actually what AllanJ is discussing is a "parallel circuit"...
> 
> And all this would be on the "plug side" of the GFCI.
> 
> ...


You've got me totally confused. What is the plug side of a GFCI? Is that the load side? And what are you talking about only having a neutral connected?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

The plug side is where a person would plug in an appliance. This is the side of the GFCI which is monitored by the GFCI. (As opposed to the "line" connection in the back of the GFCI which would be the wires going to the circuit breaker.)

And for the sake of this discussion, let's say this is the only electrical connection on the back of the GFCI - no "downstream" outlets. If there were, then that would be on the "plug side" (or "monitored" by the GFCI).

Circuit breaker -------GFCI-> (HERE!) wires protected by the GFCI


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> The plug side is where a person would plug in an appliance. This is the side of the GFCI which is monitored by the GFCI. (As opposed to the "line" connection in the back of the GFCI which would be the wires going to the circuit breaker.)
> 
> And for the sake of this discussion, let's say this is the only electrical connection on the back of the GFCI - no "downstream" outlets. If there were, then that would be on the "plug side" (or "monitored" by the GFCI).
> 
> Circuit breaker -------GFCI-> (HERE!) wires protected by the GFCI


So, if I understand what you are saying, how would a current flow from neutral to ground either upstream or downstream be monitored by the GFCI. I contend it would not be.


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Current being used on the line side of (upstream of) a GFCI and on its way back to the panel via the neutral, might migrate through the GFCI to find a ground fault (neutral to ground) on the load side of (downstream of) that GFCI and in that case the current will be monitored.

(added) ... even if no current is being used on the load side, namely flowing through the GFCI via its hot conductor although the GFCI has to be energized.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> Current being used on the line side of (upstream of) a GFCI and on its way back to the panel via the neutral, might migrate through the GFCI to find a ground fault (neutral to ground) on the load side of (downstream of) that GFCI and in that case the current will be monitored.


 I find this statement totally without merit. Currents do not migrate.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

This is hard to put into words (parallel circuits)...

Perhaps I should say parallel wiring?

Say we are jumping a car battery. Using jumper wires. + to +, - to -.

Now I run an additional jumper wire from + to +.

There are now two jumper wires from + to +. Some electricity will flow through one wire. Some electricity will flow through the other wire.

-----

Washing machine and power strip and GFCI and Breaker panel....

Black wire going from washing machine to power strip to GFCI to Breaker panel.

White wire going from washing machine to power strip to GFCI to Breaker panel.

Ground wire going from washing machine to power strip to GFCI to Breaker panel.

I now connect an additional wire from the neutral on the power strip to the neutral bar on the breaker panel. Some of the electricity will flow through that additional wire bypassing the GFCI, the GFCI will trip.

Same thing is a short from neutral to ground at the power strip.

And this would not trip the GFCI until electricity was used by the washing machine. (Something used the hot side.) 

Series and parallel circuits...


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> This is hard to put into words (parallel circuits)...
> 
> Perhaps I should say parallel wiring?
> 
> ...


A short from neutral to ground will absolutely trip a GFCI. That's exactly how a plug in GFCI tester works.


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

Billy_Bob said:


> This is hard to put into words (parallel circuits)...
> 
> And this would not trip the GFCI until electricity was used by the washing machine. (Something used the hot side.)


Assume that the washing machine had a clock or something else running when the machine was off. *The power strip was off*. So what was the source of electricity that the machine could have leaked? Is there a circuit acting like a kind of capacitor and storing residual juice from when the machine was last energized?

For that matter, has Lisaz reported back the results of plugging the washer via an extension cord into another *gfci* receptacle.


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

brric said:


> A short from neutral to ground will absolutely trip a GFCI. That's exactly how a plug in GFCI tester works.


I think you are saying that a short form the power strip neutral to ground would trip the GFCI. I should probably shut up, but that sounds correct to me.

Taking one step further, and using the simple diagram for a parallel circuit, I assume the neutral is the return side of the yellow circle and the circle represents the load. The one nearest the service is the power strip and the one below is represents the washer.

If the washer is off and the power strip is on, a short to ground in the washer would still trip the gfci.

But the power strip is off.

Doesn't this indicate a short in the neutral of another branch of the circuit somewhere "downsteam" of the gfci? Is there anything else on that circuit that is leaking down the neutral to a short in the washer? 

Could this just be a bad receptacle with a leak between the neutral and load prongs. Wouldn't that permit an even amount of current to return from one side to the other and therefor not trip the currentt interuptor since no ground fault is involved. When you plug the off but leaking washer, either directly or via the off power strip, have you not given some of the juice a path to ground and that would trip the protection?


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Path of current migrating through a GFCI and through a ground fault. (Not to say that all the current goes that way.)

(added) There is no explicit use of power on the load side of the GFCI.


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

I think LisaZ may have been scared away by all this techie talk!


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> Path of current migrating through a GFCI and through a ground fault. (Not to say that all the current goes that way.)


A. That is not how the current would flow in your drawing. The fan would be connected to the circuit either on the load side or the line side not both.
B. The fault you are showing is still in the machine and nowhere else.
C. Where in the OP is there a mention of a ceiling fan?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 11, 2008)

The switch in a power strip only switches off the black hot wire. The white neutral and ground wires remain connected with the switch off.

So a short/leak from neutral to ground at the power strip or with something plugged into the power strip would affect the GFCI even if the power strip switch was off.

Summary of this hypothetical situation...
(This is with a washer which is always using electricity, even when off - for clock or whatever.)

Hypothetical Situation 1...
-2 outlets on GFCI outlet.
-Lower outlet has power strip plugged in, it is switched off, and there is a short from neutral to ground. (This alone does not make GFCI trip!)
-You plug washer into upper outlet, GFCI trips.

Hypothetical Situation 2...
-2 outlets on GFCI outlet.
-Lower outlet has nothing plugged in.
-You plug washer into upper outlet, GFCI does not trip.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

A power strip with a short to neutral fault plugged into a GFCI will ABSOLUTELY trip a GFCI whether or not it is on or off. Any neutral to ground fault or hot to ground fault will trip a GFCI period. Try it for yourself with a cord or length of wire between neutral and ground only. See what happens.


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

brric said:


> A power strip with a short to neutral fault plugged into a GFCI will ABSOLUTELY trip a GFCI whether or not it is on or off. Any neutral to ground fault or hot to ground fault will trip a GFCI period. Try it for yourself with a cord or length of wire between neutral and ground only. See what happens.


And if there is NO neutral to ground fault in the strip, but there is one in the washer, isn't the effect the washer neutral is connected to the strip neutral even when the strip is off? (This assumes that the power strip's switch only disconnects the hot and not both the hot and neutral.)


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

If the washer is plugged into the power strip of course the neutrals are connected.

Who ever started this power strip nonsense in the first place. The fault is either in the washer or it is in the GFCI. Downstream, upstream currents have nothing to do with OP's problem.


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## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

brric said:


> If the washer is plugged into the power strip of course the neutrals are connected.
> 
> Who ever started this power strip nonsense in the first place. The fault is either in the washer or it is in the GFCI. Downstream, upstream currents have nothing to do with OP's problem.


Da. The power strip was a red herring. Since the problem is only with the washer, and not the electric guitars and amplifiers, I doubt it is the GFCI. Nice of Lisa to let us know what happened if the washer was connected via that extension cord to another GCFI outlet.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

Klawman said:


> Da. The power strip was a red herring. Since the problem is only with the washer, and not the electric guitars and amplifiers, I doubt it is the GFCI. Nice of Lisa to let us know what happened if the washer was connected via that extension cord to another GCFI outlet.


Yeah, we either totally disenchanted her or she solved the problem.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

*LG washer trips GFCI when plugged in but not with use of 2 prong adapter...*

I have been having the same problems as many on here. Eight year old washer suddenly started to trip GFCI. Now even when I plug the washer in, it trips the GFCI. As suggested, I tested plugging it in with the use of a 2 prong adapter...nothing tripped. I also ran a load of laundry with an extension cord (2 prong) plugged into a non GFCI outlet...it worked flawlessly. My outlet is above a sink in the laundry room thus requiring a GFCI to keep with code. If I change out to a non-GFCI what are the dangers...risk of fire(?) BTW, I replaced the old GFCI with a new 20 amp. one...still the same. If the fault is with the washer, what should I look for. Please keep in mind I know nothing about electricity, circuits etc. Thanks in advance.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

4us2no said:


> *Eight year old washer suddenly started to trip GFCI. *
> 
> *What should I look for*



By your description, the fault is definitely in the washer. It is very dangerous to run on a 2 wire cord without GFCI.

For an 8 year old machine, I would look for a new washer.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

Problem is, I can't afford to buy a new washer at this time. How can I diagnose the problem with the washer? Hoping that it is an easy fix. The thing that perplexes me is that it runs flawlessly when using an extension cord on a non-GFCI outlet. This whole situation happened suddenly.


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## DIherself (Apr 26, 2011)

A contractor, who rebuilt the wall under the window where my AC goes, put a GFCI there without telling me what it was or what it was for. When I finally noticed it with a magnifying glass and read "test" and "reset," I pushed the test button to see what would happen. The entire AC circuit went out. Nothing was on when l pushed the test button. 

Before that, an electrician put my first GFCI on a circuit, and when I turned my printer on, the GFCI knocked itself out along with the circuit. He came back and said the GFCI was bad. 

My house is old, I still have fuses, but I have never had any electrical problems at all until GFCI's. Could it be that I should leave the GFCI's out of here until I do a complete upgrades? I get the feeling that GFCI's are not compatible with the circuitry and whatever else electrical is in this house. Is that possible? Thank you.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The GFI is tripping to prevent someone from being shocked by a faulty appliance. It needs to be repaired or replaced.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

GFCI was replaced but still the same condition


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

4us2no said:


> GFCI was replaced but still the same condition



The washer needs to be repaired or replaced not the GFCI. The washer has a ground fault which means the voltage is leaking to ground (the frame of the washer). Most likely the motor winding insulation has broken down. Replacing the motor is required and for an 8 year old machine it is not a wise economic choice.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

but why would it run flawlessly with the adapters in place


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

is it possible for me to check the condition myself. How would I remove the cover on an LG front loading washer. Thanks in advance.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

It runs on the non-GFI circuit because there is no means to check to see that the current is going someplace it should not.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

4us2no said:


> but why would it run flawlessly with the adapters in place


With the 2 wire adapter the ground (frame of the washer), so there is no place for the leakage. However this makes the frame of the washer live and if you were touch the washer and a plumbing pipe you can be shocked or worse. You are creating a dangerous condition. 

Have it fixed or replaced before you try to use it.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

Some people had suggested discarding the GFCI for a conventional outlet (non-GFCI), wouldn't that be the same as using the 2 prong adapter?


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## RoyalAcresRod (May 27, 2009)

4us:

I suspect people aren't replying to tell you what to do because they're afraid you don't know what you're doing. 

Finding and correcting an electrical situation such as yours is a challenging task ... even for an experienced technician. 

It "runs flawlessly" because the washing machine doesn't know there is a problem. 

But the tripping GFCI indicates there is one. This could be a dangerous situation. 

If you choose to not correct it...which I hope you don't do...please keep children away from it whenever it's plugged in. And don't touch the metal parts of it yourself.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

4us2no said:


> Some people had suggested discarding the GFCI for a conventional outlet (non-GFCI), wouldn't that be the same as using the 2 prong adapter?


NO! Absolutely NOT the same thing.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

Quoted from another website:

"Electrical code almost certainly does not require a GFCI here. So it is most likely legal to take the GFCI out and put in a regular receptacle.

Older motors sometimes trip GFCI because the motor winding develop small leakage as the motor ages.

99% of the washing machines in the U.S. are _not_ connected to GFCI"​ 



Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/e...shing-machine-tripping-gfi.html#ixzz2d6XhSvMP
​


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

So if the washer runs on a conventional receptacle (non GFCI) would that be considered safe?


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## RoyalAcresRod (May 27, 2009)

I know you're wanting someone to tell you it's safe. It's not. 

Could it be just a minor problem with the motor? Yep. Could be. 

Or it could be much more serious. No one from a distance can tell you which it is. 

I'm done discussing this.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

First off, I want to thank everybody that is attempting to help me. Sorry but this is not field of expertise.

I just tested the washer with a 3 prong extension cord on a non GFCI outlet and it powered up. I am getting more and more confused as this goes on.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks for your time Royal....


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

4us2no said:


> So if the washer runs on a conventional receptacle (non GFCI) would that be considered safe?


Yes, IF the receptacle is a PROPERLY GROUNDED 3-prong receptacle. You just got finished saying your wiring is old, and I assume without a grounding conductor sicne you keep mentioning an adapter. 

So at this point, NO, it is NOT safe with a non-gorunding receptacle using an adapter, or an improperly installed un-grounded 3-prong receptacle.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

I just used the 2 prong adapter as an experiment and it didn't trip the GFCI. I will check the non-GFCI to see if it is grounded. Thanks BTW, the house is close to 50 years old and I assume that it is the original wiring.


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## 4us2no (Aug 26, 2013)

OK, there is a copper ground wire attached to the non-GFCI outlet I tested with the 3 prong extension cord. But when I replaced the 20 amp GFCI, I noticed that there wasn't any copper wire (ground) in sight. If I replace the GFCI with a conventional receptacle is there any way to attach a ground wire to it? Sorry for being so uninformed...


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

4us2no said:


> OK, there is a copper ground wire attached to the non-GFCI outlet I tested with the 3 prong extension cord. But when I replaced the 20 amp GFCI, I noticed that there wasn't any copper wire (ground) in sight. If I replace the GFCI with a conventional receptacle is there any way to attach a ground wire to it? Sorry for being so uninformed...


You are over your head, call an electrician. You may think you can't afford it, I say you can't afford not to.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

4us2no said:


> Quoted from another website:
> 
> "Electrical code almost certainly does not require a GFCI here. So it is most likely legal to take the GFCI out and put in a regular receptacle.
> 
> ...


This post was prior to the code change requiring GFI protection within 6 foot of a sink.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> 99% of the washing machines in the U.S. are _not_ connected to GFCI.


Some of us can remember when 99% of the cars in the U.S. did not have have seat belts. So is that a reason or justification to remove them ?
:whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Oso954 said:


> Some of us can remember when 99% of the cars in the U.S. did not have have seat belts. So is that a reason or justification to remove them ?


The OP is a very inexperienced DIYer. Do you really think he noticed the date of that post, or that it even mattered?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

4us2no said:


> OK, there is a copper ground wire attached to the non-GFCI outlet I tested with the 3 prong extension cord. But when I replaced the 20 amp GFCI, I noticed that there wasn't any copper wire (ground) in sight. If I replace the GFCI with a conventional receptacle is there any way to attach a ground wire to it? Sorry for being so uninformed...


That is the reason the gfci is there in the first place.
You do not have a ground wire, so the only legal way to have a prong receptacle is to replace it with a gfci.


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Is good your using gfci because it will be required next year in laundry anyway.NEC.as will dishwasher circuit.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

hidden 1 said:


> Is good your using gfci because it will be required next year in laundry anyway.NEC.as will dishwasher circuit.


What do next year's requirements have to do with today's codes???


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

jbfan said:


> That is the reason the gfci is there in the first place.
> You do not have a ground wire, so the only legal way to have a prong receptacle is to replace it with a gfci.


I just wanted to point out that article 250.114 (3)(b) will not allow a simple swap out of a non grounded receptacle with a GFCI.... this circuit MUST be grounded in this application.


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## DIherself (Apr 26, 2011)

The circuit is supposed to be grounded AND ALSO the receptacle is supposed to be grounded? Is that right? 

I wonder what the manual that comes with a brand-new washer has to say about the electric hook-up. That might answer some questions.


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Yes.

Seems we lost you in amongst the 60-odd posts over the span of some 3 years, sorry.


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## DIherself (Apr 26, 2011)

Before I call the poor electrician and my last question I promise:

Is the purpose of a GFCI to safeguard against faulty APPLIANCES/PLUG-INS/ ELECTRONICS ONLY or against a fault in the circuit itself, like a kink in a wire in the walls? 

By the very name itself: Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor, one would think it COULD BE be somewhere along the circuit itself, or is the ground a piece of copper wire that is easily found and viewed -- the same way you can look in your receptacle box easily enough and see if there's a ground wire there or not? And hopefully as easy to install when I call him and ask him to ground my circuits?


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## wirenut1110 (Apr 26, 2008)

GFI or GFCI is to protect personnel (you) from possible electric shock or electrocution should a fault occur in the circuit. 

It is set to trip at <6 ma 

It is not intended to protect any equipment or the circuit.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

DIherself said:


> Before I call the poor electrician and my last question I promise:
> 
> Is the purpose of a GFCI to safeguard against faulty APPLIANCES/PLUG-INS/ ELECTRONICS ONLY or against a fault in the circuit itself, like a kink in a wire in the walls?
> 
> By the very name itself: Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor, one would think it COULD BE be somewhere along the circuit itself, or is the ground a piece of copper wire that is easily found and viewed -- the same way you can look in your receptacle box easily enough and see if there's a ground wire there or not? And hopefully as easy to install when I call him and ask him to ground my circuits?


A GFI is designed to protect the user from a possible hazard. The hazard could be an appliance or receptacle and the problem could stem from a faulty appliance or wiring.

The ground wire is easily viewed, but you would need a meter to determine if that ground wire is grounded.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

A GFI receptacle willl only protect something plugged into it or if something is wired downstream from the LOAD terminals. It will not look upstream for any issues. A GFI breaker would protect the entire circuit.

An AFCI breaker would protect the entire circuit since it is in the panel. The AFCI does not provide the same level of GFI protection as a GFI device.


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## DIherself (Apr 26, 2011)

*clarification and summary*

Since I have to replace the main outside fuse panel anyway, I'll just ask the electrician to put in GFCI breakers and check the existing 3-prongers in my house and then replace the remaining 2-prongers, which will obliterate the need for GFCI plug-ins, if I understand correctly. 

Any objections? If not, all my thanks to all of you....


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

The reason most people use GFCI receptacles is they are 1/3 the price of GFCI breakers


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## stickboy1375 (Apr 28, 2012)

rjniles said:


> The reason most people use GFCI receptacles is they are 1/3 the price of GFCI breakers


Sure, but GFCI protection is most likely a moot point in this scenario...


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## DIherself (Apr 26, 2011)

How bout this to the electrician: Please update all my receptacles and wiring ?


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