# The Empire State Building goes green



## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Interesting story here about how the 90 year old Empire State Building in NY drastically cut its energy usage.
Their goal is to have the building carbon-neutral by 2030.

*Empire State is one of the most energy-efficient buildings in the world. Can others follow suit?*


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Interesting. I wish there were more details. It says they updated all the windows to triple-glazed, added regenerative braking on the elevators and updated the cooling plant. Presumably they also switched to LED lighting; everyone is doing that.

That seems like the low-hanging fruit, and they only got to 50% of their goal. I suspect the second 50% is going to be a lot harder. They didn't mention any changes to the heating system, so perhaps there's part of it. Beyond that it's going to get tough.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

CaptTom said:


> Interesting. I wish there were more details. It says they updated all the windows to triple-glazed, added regenerative braking on the elevators and updated the cooling plant. Presumably they also switched to LED lighting; everyone is doing that.
> 
> That seems like the low-hanging fruit, and they only got to 50% of their goal. I suspect the second 50% is going to be a lot harder. They didn't mention any changes to the heating system, so perhaps there's part of it. Beyond that it's going to get tough.


They buy heat from a steam company. That would expensive to change out.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

CaptTom said:


> Interesting. I wish there were more details. It says they updated all the windows to triple-glazed, added regenerative braking on the elevators and updated the cooling plant. Presumably they also switched to LED lighting; everyone is doing that.
> 
> That seems like the low-hanging fruit, and they only got to 50% of their goal. I suspect the second 50% is going to be a lot harder. They didn't mention any changes to the heating system, so perhaps there's part of it. Beyond that it's going to get tough.


I hate it when statements lack the details necessary to make informed opinions. Headlines for the sake of readership. All of those things are very standard on any new building, and the windows probably cost them a small/large fortune. (probably with government assistance.) I'm really curious about their cooling plant as many of those buildings in that area still use absorption chillers, due to the limited electricity infrastructure.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

There are large savings to be harvested without huge investment. Here are some of the things I have done. Enhance the economizers on hvac. Even in cold NY, commercial buildings are in cooling mode most of the time. Free cold air is available outside, all it takes is controls to suck it in without freezing any coils. And heat recovery units can save half the energy in conditioned outgoing air. Put lights near windows on light sensors. If there is adequate outdoor light, select lights don’t turn on. Put CO2 sensors in large assembly spaces. As more people accumulate, variable hvac equipment adapts to the load. Otherwise, it ventilates an auditorium for 2000 people at the 2000 rate even if 20 people are in there. It goes on and on, all it takes is a little thought. About absorptive chillers, they are great if you have a power plant or something with plenty of waste steam. Otherwise they use 4x the power as centrifugal chillers or DX units. I worked for our county and it had a powerhouse with boilers. The hot water load was huge so the boilers were run 24/7/365. It was cost effective to use steam for absorptive cooling. If a building has steam produced offsite and provided like a utility it might be cheap enough to cool with. It depends on the price, a nearby power plant might have waste steam that went through a turbine for a very low cost. I would not run a boiler simply to cool.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

An old buddy of mine has a company that building energy solutions is the biggest part of his business. Doubt there is going to be a shortage of big buildings trying to save energy (money).


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