# Excuses "why" I shouldn't get outswing exterior doors...



## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

So, moved to Texas about a year ago, and I'm replacing all my exterior doors in my home that I'm renovating, and working on the last one. While working on it, I'm reminded by all the reasons I was told "NOT" to do it. 

When I first went in to order the doors (but was told I couldn't because the door guy wasn't there), here are all the important reasons I was told I should "NOT" buy outswing doors:

1 - It's easier to kick in the door.
2 - They can knock just knock the pin out of the hinges.
3 - You'll have water leaks because the water will seep in easier
4 - Police and Fire can't get in, making it more dangerous.




So, #1, not true... it's actually harder to kick in.
#2, the hinges are exterior swing hinges that can't have the pin knocked out. #3, not sure how water leaks in easier??? With the door rest on the inside, seems like it would be less likely. #4, … conflicts with his #1! Haha...



I'll give you all the reasons why outswing doors are better:

1 - Harder to kick in.
2 - In a hurricane or in a wind storm, the air pressure pushes the door closed, allowing it to seal better... thus protecting you more in a storm.
3 - You get more room inside your house. Why have a door swing in, when you can have it swing out?



Sigh... so happy with my outswing doors.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

So no storm doors huh ?


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Reasons #2 & #4 totally contradict each other. If it's so easy to remove the pins in the hinges, why is it harder for the Fire Dept. to enter?


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Reasons #2 & #4 totally contradict each other. If it's so easy to remove the pins in the hinges, why is it harder for the Fire Dept. to enter?


Because they will take the first few minutes with the battering ram trying to knock the door inward, because its the norm and what they are used to doing.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

another outswing reason. 
In an emergency with people pushing to get out the door will open out. If it opened in all people would need to back up. Not so much an issue in a home but you will notice almost all door in commercial open out.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> So no storm doors huh ?



Hah, true... good point.

Coming from South Florida... "storm door" refers to a door that has impact qualities that can't be blown out from a hurricane.

But I think you're referring to one of those aluminum framed doors which opens out, and usually mounts in front of the inswing exterior door frame, right? Not trying to sound silly, but I've never really understood the reasoning for storm doors. I've seen people in the neighborhood with them, and all they do is open their interior door, and then leave the storm door closed. I'm not sure what the point is. Again, not trying to be coy, I just don't know what the point of that is.

My house had one when I first bought it... but I removed it and left it out for bulk pick-up. Is it supposed to help prevent horizontal rain from hitting the door, or is it somehow supposed to help insulate the front door? I bought better / more energy efficient doors anyway...


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

There's no good reason to not have out swinging doors, there even required by code to be on all commercial buildings.
Trust me no fire dept. has ever taken the time to remove the hinge pins on a door!
They need to get in a window will be busted out.
Also an out open door takes up no inside space.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Some light hearted cons I can think of....

When a person opens a in-swinging exterior door to enter the home, if the cat or dog tries to run out, a person can just put their leg in door while pulling it closed some to stop them. With the outswing door, they will just have to slam the animal in the door. And then not have to worry about that issue anymore though, I guess... 

No storm door with a screen to allow fresh air in during the Spring /Fall and it also keeps the rain snow out of the door way ....and from weathering the doors finish so badly.

Hope the police never have to force a entry, as they will destroy the door with a battering ram, as they are used to in-swinging doors.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Outswing doors have pins that cannot be removed from the outside, period. I have replaced inswing doors here in the mountains where the house positioning would invite storm winds and rain to push through inswing doors. The outswings worked remarkably well not only for wind, but for rain as well.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I've seen issues with water getting through outswing doors simply because the door itself is flush to the outside vs recessed like an inswing so leaving it more exposed to the weather. 

With storm doors and outswing doors you 'may' have issues the door hardware interfering with each other.

There are security hinges you can get that won't allow the pins to be knocked out. If you order that option with an outswing you only get one hinge that way (in my experience). I always spec two.

I do not recommend outswing doors if they're going to be exposed to the weather.

With a nice entry roof (and/or storm door) protecting the door and two security hinges then I say go for it.

The only time that I will even consider an outswing is if there is something on the interior that would benefit from it.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Todd82TA said:


> ....but I've never really understood the reasoning for storm doors.


In Florida or Texas, you probably spend a big portion of the year with all doors and windows closed and the AC running. Storm door typically has a screen and moving glass light. I will frequently open my front door and patio door and windows, and let outside air circulate through my house. Particularly morning, and often in evening, its cooler outside than inside. 

Also, the storm door is an extra layer of protection. Reduces air infiltration, and reduces risk of rain intrusion in a driving rainstorm.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

> With storm doors and outswing doors you 'may' have issues the door hardware interfering with each other


You can't have exterior storm doors with outswings. We install the retractable roller screens on outswings to allow for ventilation.

One thing I like about the outswings, is the door seal is positive on all 4 planes and gets tighter with proper closure or in some instances 3 point locks.


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

Todd82TA said:


> Hah, true... good point.
> 
> Coming from South Florida... "storm door" refers to a door that has impact qualities that can't be blown out from a hurricane.
> 
> ...


 The best reason for our storm doors is to protect the exterior doors finishes. I could see not wanting storm doors in tropical climates, but here in the bluegrass state we have the weather where we open all our windows, and outside doors that have storm doors/screens...and let the breeze blow through. Helps air our houses out from pet odors, beer farts and fish smells.

And I also don't like out swinging doors on houses because they feel like I am going in to a bar.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

All exterior doors need to be protected from the elements imo. Whether from the blistering sun of the SW or the 9 months a year of driving rain in the NW.

I've never come across a store bought exterior door that I couldn't make leak around the seals with a hose.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

> I've never come across a store bought exterior door that I couldn't make leak around the seals with a hose.


Yeah, store bought could be problematic. The ones we install are higher end either Jeld Wen or others, and they come from Millworks places, not box stores. The exterior finish is metal and the final finish has a 20 year warranty.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The main issue with an outswing door on a home is you can't install a screen door.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

The screen door is a secondary issue. The first issue is that you can hit somebody, maybe a child.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Maybe you shouldn't drink and open doors if you are at risk of hitting children. Where'd that come from??


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

An outswing entrance door is dangerous especially if there is a high stoop there. To open it from the outside, the person has to step down backwards.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

They can't be all that dangerous, most codes require them for commercial occupancies.

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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

The average commercial properties have the capability of 20 -500 people in them. Not likely for a residential property. 

I bet can take a standard 4 ft. crowbar and stick in the margin crack of a WOOD FRAMED outswing door and very shortly while prying sideways, I can break out the little bit of 3/8 inches of wood holding the dead bolt in the door. The cylindrical hand lockset is then really no issue to breach. 

This is why when you look at a commercial out swinging metal door, that is not highly visible in public or not electronically monitored, most times you will see a metal plate welded over the dead bolt/strike plate.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> They can't be all that dangerous, most codes require them for commercial occupancies.


The differences are that commercial occupancies are ground level, they are usually glass doors so people can be seen & the sidewalks are wide enough to avoid collisions.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

joed said:


> The main issue with an outswing door on a home is you can't install a screen door.


I suppose that's true. I don't think I've ever had a screen door on my front door. When I lived in Richmond, Virginia as a kid, my parents would occasionally leave the back door open and they had a screen door on that door. For the front, it was far more formal and needed to look nice.

But true... I definitely can't put a screen on that door. I do have a glass sliding rear door with a sliding screen door.




Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> I bet can take a standard 4 ft. crowbar and stick in the margin crack of a WOOD FRAMED outswing door and very shortly while prying sideways, I can break out the little bit of 3/8 inches of wood holding the dead bolt in the door. The cylindrical hand lockset is then really no issue to breach.
> 
> This is why when you look at a commercial out swinging metal door, that is not highly visible in public or not electronically monitored, most times you will see a metal plate welded over the dead bolt/strike plate.


Not that it makes any difference, but I often replace the door frames with PVC. Home Depot has a nice kit that allows you to size the door frame so you can replace the wood one. I generally do this on any door that is directly exposed to rain. In my Florida home, the side door off the garage, the frame had completely rotted out, and the same for one of the back doors. Replaced that with PVC.

For the front doors, I use mahogany from the "Main Door" corporation. Really nice components, still won't stand up to a crow bar. But my front doors are all mahogany... it'll slow you down at least! haha.




Guap0_ said:


> The differences are that commercial occupancies are ground level, they are usually glass doors so people can be seen & the sidewalks are wide enough to avoid collisions.



Yeah, that's a code requirement. I looked it up in Texas before I went nuts with outswing doors. It required 10 square-feet landing directly outside the doors. I had that in every case, except the one that opens into the garage.


I end up with so much more room though. As they say, your mileage may vary...


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> Yeah, that's a code requirement. I looked it up in Texas before I went nuts with outswing doors. It required 10 square-feet landing directly outside the doors.['quote]
> I knew that there had to be something like that in the code. I didn't take the time to research it.


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