# Ripple in the ceiling drywall - What should I do?



## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

When I bought my house 10 months ago we noticed the previous owners did some repair on the ceiling in the kitchen. We knew this because of the paint job (bright white) that was used to cover it. 

I noticed a brown stain (on the ceiling) several weeks ago that hasn't gotten worse. I also noticed a ripple on the drywall ceiling a couple inches from the stain. The stain and ripple are close to where the previous owner did repairs.

My question is does this look like a problem? What would you do to check if it's a leak? 

* this stain/ripple is above the guest bathroom toilet AND also above the master bathroom shower. I need to recaulk the shower but I wasn't sure if that would cause this.


The ripple is to the left of the bright white paint in this pic. 









There's a brown stain in this pic, the ripple is the darker spot to the right.









I shined a flashlight on the ripple.


















The brown stain is to the left, ripple is the grey stain to the left of the bright white paint.


















Shower above, the caulk needs to be redone.


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

ABOVE the water source??? BELOW the water source makes sense. Ron


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ront02769 said:


> ABOVE the water source??? BELOW the water source makes sense. Ron


Ahh, yeah you're right. It's been a long day


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Does it feel soft or mushy? Poke at it with a stick and see if it goes through. 

You could also jab a small hole through the ceiling and see if anything drips through over the next few weeks.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

That's some poor caulking. I'm surprised the inspector didn't pick up on the ceiling repair knowing there was a bathroom above.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Yes, that is a problem. 

See the black under caulk? That is mold.....translation, water leak.

At this point, don't worry about your ceiling....you need to fix the leak.

First thing to try....remove ALL of that clear caulk. Clean it up the best you can and then re-caulk using a caulk for bathtubs and showers (white). 

Also, inspect your pan for any cracks. If possible, see if you can correlate the ceiling drywall damage with the location of the shower. It wont be exact as water can weep along a floor joist until it finds a spot to go down. But it should at least give you an idea of which side the leak is on.

Monitor it closely. If it continues to leak, you have a bigger issue. You could have a leaking drain which will require some minor surgery to your ceiling to access the drain.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

mikegp said:


> Does it feel soft or mushy? Poke at it with a stick and see if it goes through.
> 
> You could also jab a small hole through the ceiling and see if anything drips through over the next few weeks.


The brown stain is solid, not mushy at all. The ripple isn't really mushy but when I run my finger along it it feels almost like it may have some condensation. It feels a tiny bit more "damp" than other areas. I'm not sure if that's just my imagination or not since I'm not 100% sure if it is damp. 

I pushed my fingers against it and it seemed pretty stiff with exception of the ripples that have started to bubble.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

r0ckstarr said:


> That's some poor caulking. I'm surprised the inspector didn't pick up on the ceiling repair knowing there was a bathroom above.


The inspector saw it and we all assumed the previous owner had made a repair of some sort (leaky pipe we suspected). 

He said it was ok but just to watch it. The weird part is the ripples and the stain are to the left of where they did that repair.

I agree with the caulking, I just haven't gotten around to it but it has now moved up on my priority list. Does that caulk job look like it could have caused a situation like mine?


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

The brown stain is a guaranteed indicator of water damage. Water damage can cause both brown stains and the rippling you are seeing. The source of the damage is impossible to determine without opening up the ceiling to see what's going on above. Could be the drain, could be the water lines feeding the tub and shower, could be the failing caulking.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> The brown stain is a guaranteed indicator of water damage. Water damage can cause both brown stains and the rippling you are seeing. The source of the damage is impossible to determine without opening up the ceiling to see what's going on above. Could be the drain, could be the water lines feeding the tub and shower, could be the failing caulking.


What would be the first step you guys would take? Re-caulk and replace the old leaky shower door sweep? 

I noticed water outside the corner of shower door on the carpet (bathroom is carpeted). The carpet was getting soaked in that corner because of me taking a shower and I think it may have been the sweep causing that.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I should mention that after I shower I have water outside the non-hinged side of the shower door. It's not a lot, but it's made the carpet wet and is turning the carpet a blackish color by the corner (where the carpet meets the shower).

I'm not sure if this is causing it but I need to replace the shower drip drain on the door since the sweep is missing or rotted. The drip drain was also letting water OUT when I opened the shower door since it was on an angle (lower on the non-hinged side).


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ddawg16 said:


> Yes, that is a problem.
> 
> See the black under caulk? That is mold.....translation, water leak.
> 
> ...


Does that caulking job look like it could cause a leak? 

I wasn't sure how bad the job would need to be before it leaks and/or stains and ripples like my ceiling has. 


The location of the ripples are directly below the shower upstairs. There's also a guest bathroom that butts up to the master bathroom which has a toilet on the wall behind the shower. 

So my guess would be either the guest toilet or master shower that's causing the leak. I've never done drywall repair and I know it sounds silly but I want to make sure if I open up the drywall I can repair it sop it looks good. I hear ceilings can be tough.


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

First thing I would do is remove the carpet. Carpet in a bathroom is absolutely the worst flooring imaginable. The blackish colour you're seeing is mold. That's really not a good thing at all. It means water is sitting on and under the carpet for extended periods of time. That water could have rotted out the flooring underneath the carpet which now could also be causing your ceiling problem.

You've got several things to take care of at this point. The caulking is one thing, but first thing I'd do is get that carpet out of there. It's a health hazard.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

One other thing to mention is the reason I started to look into all this is because I'm trying to tackle moisture issues in the house. Without running the AC or heat the house in Chicago weather right now is at 63% humidity.

I put a 70-pint Frigidaire dehumidifier upstairs and it's been filling up a bucket a day but has dropped the humidity upstairs to 44%.

The house is relatively"open" and I expected my humidity in the kitchen to drop as well. The humidity in the kitchen is reading about 58-60% which seems kinda high considering the fact I'm running the dehumidifier on the 2nd floor.

This has me wondering if the ceiling/leak/ripples/etc are responsible for the high humidity in the kitchen.

Keep in mind this is with the AC and heat OFF.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Carpet in a bathroom!! Red flag right there.
Sure hope you mean just a throw rug.
If I had of inspected it I would have put in writing to get rid of it.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> First thing I would do is remove the carpet. Carpet in a bathroom is absolutely the worst flooring imaginable. The blackish colour you're seeing is mold. That's really not a good thing at all. It means water is sitting on and under the carpet for extended periods of time. That water could have rotted out the flooring underneath the carpet which now could also be causing your ceiling problem.
> 
> You've got several things to take care of at this point. The caulking is one thing, but first thing I'd do is get that carpet out of there. It's a health hazard.


Thank you. I bought the house a couple months ago so I don't have a lot of extra money. That's the reason I haven't ripped the carpet out, but I guess I need to do that sooner than later. Hopefully I can find some decently priced tiles and do the bathroom floor for a decent price. 

The inspector saw the carpet and they indicated the carpet in the house is old and should be replaced but I agree with you.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Carpet in a bathroom!! Red flag right there.
Sure hope you mean just a throw rug.
If I had of inspected it I would have put in writing to get rid of it.
This is going to turn into a Pandora's box of repairs in no time.
I've seen bad caulking jobs before but that one wins the prize.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

joecaption said:


> Carpet in a bathroom!! Red flag right there.
> Sure hope you mean just a throw rug.
> If I had of inspected it I would have put in writing to get rid of it.


 I know what you mean. The one thing I've learned is the inspectors seem to minimize a lot. He definitely suggested I replace it. 

The water is coming onto the carpet from the shower and running right down the edge of where the carpet meets the shower door (handle side). 

After evaluating the situation I noticed the shower door drip drain was angled toward the shower door handle so when you open the door it allows water to get onto the floor. The other issue is the sweep may be missing or rotted on the drip drain. On top of that you have the caulking so one of those may be responsible but I do know after a shower the carpet is wet right outside the shower door.


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

cjaustin81 said:


> Thank you. I bought the house a couple months ago so I don't have a lot of extra money. That's the reason I haven't ripped the carpet out, but I guess I need to do that sooner than later. Hopefully I can find some decently priced tiles and do the bathroom floor for a decent price.
> 
> The inspector saw the carpet and they indicated the carpet in the house is old and should be replaced but I agree with you.


You might not want to hear this, but if it was me I'd be pulling out the carpet today. I'd rather be looking at and walking on the plywood subfloor than carpet. You'll also be able to tell how much damage has been done to the subflooring. Any repairs to this will obviously have to be done before any tile work is considered.

It's tough when you're short on money and I understand that as I've been there as well.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

joecaption said:


> Carpet in a bathroom!! Red flag right there.
> Sure hope you mean just a throw rug.
> If I had of inspected it I would have put in writing to get rid of it.
> This is going to turn into a Pandora's box of repairs in no time.
> I've seen bad caulking jobs before but that one wins the prize.


I'm really hoping this won't be a pandora's box of repairs. I'm not going to use that shower until I get all of this figured out so hopefully that will help stop the bleeding. 

Do we think it's the shower and not the toilet (after describing the situation)?


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

cjaustin81 said:


> I'm really hoping this won't be a pandora's box of repairs. I'm not going to use that shower until I get all of this figured out so hopefully that will help stop the bleeding.
> 
> Do we think it's the shower and not the toilet (after describing the situation)?


Impossible to say. The shower allowing water on the floor is definitely an issue though and the carpet compounds that alot. The ripple downstairs now has another variable; which one is the actual cause is impossible to determine at this point.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> You might not want to hear this, but if it was me I'd be pulling out the carpet today. I'd rather be looking at and walking on the plywood subfloor than carpet. You'll also be able to tell how much damage has been done to the subflooring. Any repairs to this will obviously have to be done before any tile work is considered.
> 
> It's tough when you're short on money and I understand that as I've been there as well.


I think you're right, I appreciate your honesty. That will allow me to assess the situation better too.


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

Like eveyone else said, get that carpet out asap. If the floor is not damaged, you can get some peel-and-stick vinyl tiles from Menards for $0.30 a piece. Should not cost more than $25 to get a functional floor in place for now (if no subfloor damage). Then you can save up for whatever type of permanent solution you want to put in place after you address where the water is coming from.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

hyunelan2 said:


> Like eveyone else said, get that carpet out asap. If the floor is not damaged, you can get some peel-and-stick vinyl tiles from Menards for $0.30 a piece. Should not cost more than $25 to get a functional floor in place for now (if no subfloor damage). Then you can save up for whatever type of permanent solution you want to put in place after you address where the water is coming from.


Thanks. I'm also knee deep doing my mold remediation in my basement (from not running a dehumidifier or AC) so I wasn't excited to rip more up but this carpet has to go.


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## Wildbill7145 (Sep 26, 2014)

It's always a drag when you buy a house and shortly thereafter find all the problems that you couldn't see before you bought it. Our house was built by a complete and utter madman. We're still finding all sorts of weirdness and crazy ideas he had.

I've definitely learned a lot more handyman skills over the past few years than I had before we moved in.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Here's a picture of the bathroom (from months ago) before I steam cleaned the carpets. 

The water is collecting where I have the red circle.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

OK didn't read every post but if you steam cleaned the carpet that could be the problem that caused everything. The brown stain could be from previous and the owner just primed and painted, without a stain blocking primer like Bin it is very common for water stains to come thru paint. The ripple just looks like a bad attempt to match the texture.

Steam cleaning adds a lot of water and moisture and in that small an area there would not be much air circulating so would take a long time to completely dry. The steam cleaning could also have let a little water soak thru. The shower needs work but may not be the total problem. You can tell a lot more when the carpet is gone.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Got some pictures of this bathroom?
Please do not even consider peel and stick flooring in a bathroom!!
Why would you want seams that are going to open up as it shrinks over time every 12"?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

joecaption said:


> Got some pictures of this bathroom?
> Please do not even consider peel and stick flooring in a bathroom!!
> Why would you want seams that are going to open up as it shrinks over time every 12"?


I posted a picture if the bathroom above. That's pretty much how it looks now.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

hyunelan2 said:


> Like eveyone else said, get that carpet out asap. If the floor is not damaged, you can get some peel-and-stick vinyl tiles from Menards for $0.30 a piece. Should not cost more than $25 to get a functional floor in place for now (if no subfloor damage). Then you can save up for whatever type of permanent solution you want to put in place after you address where the water is coming from.


That's a great short-term solution. The one thing I would add would be to paint the plywood with a heavy coat of gloss enamel paint prior to applying the tile. That will do two things. It was somewhat waterproof the plywood to help with any water that seeps in between the tiles. Secondly it will allow the tiles to adhere better initially but make them easier to remove at a later date.


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

joecaption said:


> Please do not even consider peel and stick flooring in a bathroom!!
> Why would you want seams that are going to open up as it shrinks over time every 12"?


We're talking about removing carpet and putting something in it's place -on a budget- to bridge the gap until the room can be done in a way he wants.

Even if its peel-and-stick for life, a cheapo tile still gets you several years before you need to peel-and-stick again. It's a low cost, low maintenance, low time solution.


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## Reca_Const (Oct 9, 2014)

one point yet to be mentioned...I deal with drywall plaster damaged from water DAILY...what has yet to be said is the mold in the tub...mold in tub/bath area...bath area definately leaked to kitchen ceiling...THEREFORE mold transfer to floor joists and ceiling drywall in kitchen...the brown water stain is evidence of water migration pulling contaminates with it...brutal honest truth...you are doing remediation in basement already, so your home has high yield for mold growth...no question...you need to open that ceiling to thoroughly check for mold and the bonus is now you will get a first hand look at where the water came from in first place


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## Reca_Const (Oct 9, 2014)

my professional opinion...the water source should not be your primary concern here....you need to address the mold, then take care of the originating source


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## Reca_Const (Oct 9, 2014)

the health of you and any other occupants or guests in your home should take finiancial prioroty pver the asthetics of a beautifully flat white cieling (which you currently dont have anyway right)


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## Perry525 (Jan 10, 2010)

*Humidity, mold, wood rot, breathing, sweating etc*



cjaustin81 said:


> One other thing to mention is the reason I started to look into all this is because I'm trying to tackle moisture issues in the house. Without running the AC or heat the house in Chicago weather right now is at 63% humidity.
> 
> I put a 70-pint Frigidaire dehumidifier upstairs and it's been filling up a bucket a day but has dropped the humidity upstairs to 44%.
> 
> ...


High humidity is caused by people. People breathing, sweating, cooking, washing, drying. Do you have an exhaust fan in the kitchen? Do you use it while cooking and afterwards? Ditto your bathroom. Do you have any open windows?
Water vapor is lighter than air, it is rising upstairs, because warm air rises and it takes water vapor with it.
As far as that ceiling goes, cut a hole in the ceiling and see where the water is coming from. Holes in drywall are easy to repair.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

UH-OH I think the sky is falling.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Reca_Const said:


> one point yet to be mentioned...I deal with drywall plaster damaged from water DAILY...what has yet to be said is the mold in the tub...mold in tub/bath area...bath area definately leaked to kitchen ceiling...THEREFORE mold transfer to floor joists and ceiling drywall in kitchen...the brown water stain is evidence of water migration pulling contaminates with it...brutal honest truth...you are doing remediation in basement already, so your home has high yield for mold growth...no question...you need to open that ceiling to thoroughly check for mold and the bonus is now you will get a first hand look at where the water came from in first place


I'm hoping it's just from a bad caulk job in the shower. The ripples and the stain haven't gotten worse which has me really confused. 

What mold in the tub? Do you mean the shower? My guess is that's from this bathroom not having a vent fan. I'm installing one.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm working in the bathroom now and I lifted the carpet and I don't think it looks too bad. What do you guys think? The wood seems ok for the most part. There's a tiny spot in the top-right corner where the water was leaking from the drip drain when I would open the door.



















I noticed a TINY crack by the drain, is this of concern? I can stick the tip of a utility knife just barely into it.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

A couple more pictures. I don't think the wood looks too bad, obviously the spot that was getting wet is darker. What do you think?


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