# Painted over Semigloss without sanding.



## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi,

A few weeks ago I was putting some weatherstripping on my bathroom door frame to soften slamming sounds. When I removed it I accidentally peeled some paint off, and long story short I ended up re-painting the whole door and frame.

Here's the problem: I did not sand or clean the door first. Wish I had, but now it's too late as have already painted. The paint I used was "Benjamin Moore: Interior Paint and Primer: Pearl". I don't know if the 'paint and primer' is strong enough to act as a primer. 

It seemed to adhere ok - none of the paint came off.. but if I do scratch it with my nail it does leave a mark. However, I did this 'scratch test' with another door in my apartment and the reaction is similar, paint easily comes off with my nail. There seems to be only one coat of paint on the other doors, so perhaps they did not prime either? I guess what I'm getting at is since this is a rental, perhaps my paint job doesn't have excellent adhesion but maybe the other doors/frames don't either since there is only one coat and the paint comes off with a scratch just as easily.

Bottom line: Is there anything I should/can do? As I said none of the paint comes off without touching it, seems to have adhered ok but if scrape with a nail it easily marks. I don't know how strong the 'paint and primer in one' is, and if it's strong enough to act as a primer and I don't really need to worry about it, or if I should do something to fix this. Would painting another coat on top help? Should I remove all the paint completely and start over? (Seems like a big ordeal.) Will the paint be ok and stay stuck on for years? (As I said other doors in the apartment also easily remove paint when scratched and seem to have similar reaction, yet I believe were also painted years ago.)

Thanks for any help!


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

*I should also note I was able to successfully wash the newly painted door (just wiped with a wet rag) and no paint came off.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

It's fine


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

Actually it's not.

After writing that 'washing it with a wet cloth' was fine, I decided to try that again. This time to truly test it, I scrubbed hard. The paint started coming right off.

If the paint comes off that easily, I obviously have to redo this and have my work cut out for me. Tomorrow I'll have to remove all the paint and obviously won't need any heavy duty chemicals to do so. (This is the only reason I was avoiding doing that in the first place, seemed like a huge and too-challenging task.)

Any suggestions on how to remove it better than with just using water and elbow grease? I could just try a simple cleaning product or dish soap but don't want to damage the original layer of paint underneath.

Once I remove all the paint (hopefully doesn't take a million hours and is doable), I suppose I will need to prep properly and do it over again. What exactly would this involve? The original paint looks like semi-gloss, so I imagine I'd have to sand off the gloss first? Could I then use the paint-and-primer-in-one or would it be better to use a stronger primer on its own, followed by two coats of regular paint?


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

I have also read that latex paint sometimes needs several weeks, if not a couple of months to fully cure? (Before it can withstand hard scrubbing.) So I can't tell if the fact that it came off with hard scrubbing and water is normal due to paint not fully curing (painted it about a month ago) or is an indication of poor adhesion?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

custard said:


> I have also read that latex paint sometimes needs several weeks, if not a couple of months to fully cure? (Before it can withstand hard scrubbing.) So I can't tell if the fact that it came off with hard scrubbing and water is normal due to paint not fully curing (painted it about a month ago) or is an indication of poor adhesion?


I used a red paint before and it took _months_ to finally dry.

I think the only problem you have is, you can't stop touching it, ha......


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## VAProPainter (Jan 29, 2014)

Most paint manufacturers recommend at least a 30 day cure time before scrubbing. I think you can stop worrying about this.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

custard said:


> Hi,
> 
> A few weeks ago I was putting some weatherstripping on my bathroom door frame to soften slamming sounds. When I removed it I accidentally peeled some paint off, and long story short I ended up re-painting the whole door and frame.
> 
> ...


Can you be more specific about the type of paint? Benjamin Moore has several lines. Some paints will never withstand a rough scrubbing. It sounds like you used a regular wall paint and not a door and trim enamel. 

When you scrub it, does the paint peel off and leave a rough edge or do you just kind of rub through it? 

Is it soft all over or do you have good adhesion in some spots? 

Are you sure your paint job is even the problem? The previous paint job is apparently not that great if the weatherstripping pulled it off. 

You might have an oil paint under there. 

Too many questions. Post some pictures maybe. 

After a month, I don't think it's going to get any better by itself.


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## blackjack (Oct 21, 2015)

Sounds like there may be an oil at play here....like others have advised, stop touching it.
Alternatively, strip it all off, sand the surface and repaint it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

"I used a red paint before and it took months to finally dry.

I think the only problem you have is, you can't stop touching it, ha......"

"Most paint manufacturers recommend at least a 30 day cure time before scrubbing. I think you can stop worrying about this."

I think curing may actually be the primary concern here. I just spoke to a paint chemist on the phone so I figure if anyone is in an area of expertise it's that guy. As you guys both mentioned, paint can take _at least_ 30 days to fully cure. 

Seems I am painting over semi-gloss latex paint, (as the paint chips are flexible and came off with acetone), so although it may have been better to sand I don't think it's the main issue. He said if there was an adhesion problem I would know by now, and likely it hasn't had enough time to fully cure. It's also been very rainy, thus humid this past month, which he also said would slow the curing time. 

I'm not actually going to strip off all the paint it's way too much work. When I have the time I'll give it another coat of paint and let it be. As the chemist said, there should be no issue with adhesion if it's latex over latex, even without sanding, even on semi-gloss. And if there was an issue with adhesion I would know by now or it would be coming off on its own.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Like I said, it's fine.


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

New info here:

Curing is not the issue. I am planning on having painting done soon in my apartment, including this door. A contractor came by and noticed that there is oil paint underneath the latex that the house was painted with, and suspected that no conversion primer was used, so the paint on all doors/trim already has poor adhesion.

I realize that painting a coat over that semigloss latex without sanding was not a good idea, but I have read that you can paint over semigloss without sanding if you use primer. I used paint-and-primer in one. Again, can this be substituted for regular primer? Basically wondering if the poor adhesion of this new coat of latex is due to the fact that I didn't sand, (or use a normal primer instead) - or if it's due to the fact that the latex underneath had poor adhesion to the oil below to begin with, and possibly never fully cured because of that. 

Just wondering if I worsened the problem by doing this, or if the bigger problem is the latex paint underneath not adhering to the oil underneath it.


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

*Just read on a website that paint-and-primer-in-one is recommended only when painting over a previously painted surface, but not with a sheen change. I painted pearl (or satin) over semigloss. This is a minor sheen change. Would that be problematic? Or again is the main issue the latex underneath being painted directly over oil and maybe not curing properly?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

The latex over the oil is killing you here. If you're not wanting to strip off what's not sticking, use a BONDING primer such as Zinsser's 1-2-3, Stix, Gripper, any number of those type of primers. If you're ok with some strong fumes, use BIN or CoverStain, they stick to glass. You could still have adhesion issues underneath the bonding primer, but, usually that's enough to correct what's going on so you can apply your topcoats. If you're a bit uncertain if this may work, do one door and see how it goes before committing to doing all the doors in this manner.


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi Gymschu, thanks for your reply. So are you saying that even if I used a regular primer, as opposed to a paint-and-primer in one, I would still be having adhesion issues? And if so, is this due to the paint underneath not being fully cured? Again just trying to specify if using the paint-and-primer and one is the issue, or if it's the coat underneath that's causing the problem - and a regular primer also would not have worked in this case. I will try the "bonding primer" as you recommended. 

And to be clear, incase you misunderstood, I painted a coat of paint-and-primer in one latex over semi-gloss latex, and the semi-gloss latex was over oil. (3 types of paint here from top to bottom: paint and primer in one satin latex (the coat I did), semi-gloss latex paint, oil paint.) So I did not paint directly over oil if that's possibly what you thought.

(I also notice that with the latex underneath, which is over the oil, if I scratch a bit off it sometimes makes tiny 'wrinkles'.)


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## custard (Mar 14, 2017)

*I used paint-and=primer in one over the semi-gloss latex, which was over oil.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

At this point, after finding out that you have latex paint over an oil based paint without a BONDING primer between them, you will need to remove all the latex paint and do it properly to make it right. There is no other solution. You COULD apply a bonding primer and then paint again but you will never have a sound surface. PS, there is no primer in any paint.


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