# bathroom remodel



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

my wife and I are remodeling the master bath. the first order of business was to get the wallpaper off the walls. (after getting the big old mirror off the wall) as you can see by the pix,the walls look like crap,especially where the mirror was. the people that did the work originally about 20 yrs. ago, weren't too concerned about the drywall finish because it was to be papered so now I've got some nasty walls.
my question is: "what should I do about it?" the walls will be painted.(after I texture 'em,there's no texture at all right now) I was thinking maybe a "skim coat" of "mud". any ideas?

tnx,


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

Jeeez...that DOES look like h*ll!

I'd be tempted to just rip down what's there, and put up new rock! 
(I know that may shock some people out there...)

You'll have a better final surface, with potentially less sanding.
Also, there's the possibility of adding more insulation (if that's applicable), and changing lighting/switch runs.

Worth at least considering....

Faron


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Skim coating will work---like the poster above said---replacing will be about the same amount of work--depending on your skills.

I'll give you a short explanation of the skim coating steps--
1. prime well--I like Zinsers latex primer--Chrisn mentioned the exact name in a post a week ago-
That will keep the wet mud from bubbling the damaged paper.

2.Apply All Purpose--green lid bucket---That mud is loaded with glue and will stick to the painted ares
Cover the entire area with a thin coat using a 12" or 14" blade-
Knock off ridges and high spots with a blade when dry.

3. Apply two thin coats of Light Weight--blue bucket this is easiest to sand--

4.Sand with a sanding pad and sanding sponge.

It's a dusty process --but done all the time--Mike--


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

if you could see the entire bathroom,you'd know that replacing all the sheetrock would be a major job and hence not feasible.
the idea of a "skim-coat" is good. this book I have suggests you "thin down" some all-purpose mud,roll it on,trowel it down to a thin coat, let dry then sand. I guess you would then finish it with a couple coats of "topper". I'd then "blast" on some texture and then paint. the major problem I can see will be controlling all that fine dust.

tnx,


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If you ever figure out how to eliminate drywall dust --you will be able to retire rich-:laughing:

I've hear of people applying the first coat with a paint roller--

But it was always a"friend told me"--I just throw it on the wall and attack it with a 12 or 14 Inch blade---Do whip the mud with a good drill first--the creamy consistency will allow a smother coat.--Mike--


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## suprvee (Sep 2, 2010)

I just finished skim coating a 8x12 foot section of wall in my kitchen. I had the same issue as you; old walls, and lots of patch work from previous owners. *I will never skim coat a wall again*. The issue is, unless you're a pro, it's going to take a crap load of time to do. It took me 5 thin coats to get a smooth finish, with a 24hr wait between coats (cold house). The end result was good, but took forever. When I remodel my bathroom, I'll be taking the walls off completely and hanging new drywall.


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## Faron79 (Jul 16, 2008)

As Suprvee said!!!

I was coming at the drywall replacement from a "By the time you do all that skimming/sanding/etc...." you could've re-rocked the room and had a better wall.
You'll generate twice the dust applying/sanding-out skimcoats.

Hire someone who's done it b4. You'll be glad you did! 
At least for resale value anyway!

Faron


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Sand the walls lightly before initial prime to get little bits of loose paper off. Any deep gouges or serious damage would best be coated with setting type compound first. I'd recommend regular compound for all coats, especially if a 5 gallon bucket will do the entire job. Thin your mud with water to make it spread easier. Buy a sander you can hook up to a shop vac to keep the dust down. I've seen them a Home Depot. Or order online at someplace like All-Wall.com ($19.99 for the Hyde "dust dog" hand sander, $29.99 for the pole sander). Put a thin layer on (and yes, you can roll it on if you want) and wipe back off. If you pre-fill the bad places, 2 coats should do the trick.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

now for a slightly different question: (but still concerning the bath)
the counter you see in the pic has 2 sinks. the plan is to have a mirror directly centered above each sink and a light fixture directly centered above each mirror. only problem is studs are in the way of where the elec. boxes have to go. my question is whether common building practice would allow me to cut into a stud to make the box fit where it should go. the wall,I strongly believe is not "load bearing". maybe I should be asking this somewhere else?

tnx,


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

May want to start another thread under "remodeling". I would use light sconces at the sides as overhead lights accent facial features. 

Gary


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

analogmusicman said:


> now for a slightly different question: (but still concerning the bath)
> the counter you see in the pic has 2 sinks. the plan is to have a mirror directly centered above each sink and a light fixture directly centered above each mirror. only problem is studs are in the way of where the elec. boxes have to go. my question is whether common building practice would allow me to cut into a stud to make the box fit where it should go. the wall,I strongly believe is not "load bearing". maybe I should be asking this somewhere else?
> 
> tnx,


You could use a "pancake box" which is 1/2" deep. It would allow you to leave the stud in place & just screw the box right to the stud you are wanting to remove (after cutting a 4" hole in the drywall to accomodate it). Studs are our friends, we try to save them whenever we can


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

10-4 on the "pancake" box....


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

bjbatlanta said:


> Sand the walls lightly before initial prime to get little bits of loose paper off. Any deep gouges or serious damage would best be coated with setting type compound first. I'd recommend regular compound for all coats, especially if a 5 gallon bucket will do the entire job. Thin your mud with water to make it spread easier. Buy a sander you can hook up to a shop vac to keep the dust down. I've seen them a Home Depot. Or order online at someplace like All-Wall.com ($19.99 for the Hyde "dust dog" hand sander, $29.99 for the pole sander). Put a thin layer on (and yes, you can roll it on if you want) and wipe back off. If you pre-fill the bad places, 2 coats should do the trick.


 
hmmm...you say any deep gouges or serious damage would be best filled first before priming? would regular "mud" do it or would all the water in the "mud" adversely affect the exposed paper?

tnx,


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear, but I said SAND lightly before initial primer coat. Then pre-fill.Regular mud can be used, setting type would be better due to less shrinkage...


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

yeah, the idea of that "pancake box" sure is intriguing but I'm having trouble seeing how a 1/2" box can accomodate the wires even if I AM using #14 romex. I mean that twisting together 2 #14 wires with a wire from the fixture and putting a "wirenut" on there along with stuffing this (X 2 of course) into the fixture base is going to make for a tight fit! maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and cut out the stud so a standard box will fit. (plenty of room in there) I can see that a pro electrician might be able to work with that but I'm just an amature.

tnx,


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

analogmusicman said:


> yeah, the idea of that "pancake box" sure is intriguing but I'm having trouble seeing how a 1/2" box can accomodate the wires even if I AM using #14 romex. I mean that twisting together 2 #14 wires with a wire from the fixture and putting a "wirenut" on there along with stuffing this (X 2 of course) into the fixture base is going to make for a tight fit! maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and cut out the stud so a standard box will fit. (plenty of room in there) I can see that a pro electrician might be able to work with that but I'm just an amature.
> 
> tnx,


you'd be surprised :thumbsup: there is a 4" circle to work with so what you lack in depth you make up for in width & height. I like the small orange wirenuts from ideal for connecting fixture wires to 14 gauge romex anyways. I hate the way yellows connect to fixture wires,, its just a crappy connection. Oranges make a much better connection & are smaller, its win, win :thumbup:

If you only have 1 romex going in to the pancake box there is plenty of room to make your connections (with oranges wirenuts) & to tuck them in. Remember the fixture's cover will give you some additional space too. Try it and save that stud man !!


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Most if not all light fixtures have plenty of room in the base to accommodate the wires and nuts--

I've never run into a situation that a pancake box would not work for a wall light.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

ok,I'll give the "pancake" a try (without syrup of course) :laughing:
they available at HD or lowe's?

tnx,


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## Waymo (Jan 15, 2011)

analogmusicman said:


> ok,I'll give the "pancake" a try (without syrup of course) :laughing:
> they available at HD or lowe's?
> 
> tnx,


Yes they are and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but they come in a 3 1/2 and 4 inch box, so check the vanity you'll be putting up for size of bracket.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

Waymo said:


> Yes they are and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but they come in a 3 1/2 and 4 inch box, so check the vanity you'll be putting up for size of bracket.


don't standard boxes only come in 1 size ? why would this be different?

tnx,


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## Waymo (Jan 15, 2011)

analogmusicman said:


> don't standard boxes only come in 1 size ? why would this be different?
> 
> tnx,


 
More than likely you'll be dealing with a 3 1/2 inch circular pancake box. The reason there are 2 different sizes is because they are typically used commercially and only come in metal ( or at least what ive seen @ lowes ), therefore the option for a 4inch is available....


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

this what I need?


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## Waymo (Jan 15, 2011)

analogmusicman said:


> this what I need?


Exactly.


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

analogmusicman said:


> this what I need?


Yes. It screws right to a stud & is the same thickness as 1/2 inch drywall. They work real good. I have a big hole saw that i use to cut the hole with,,,, slicker than snot :thumbup: Of course a standard drywall saw will work just fine.

I didn't even know they came in 3 1/2" lol. I've used them for ceiling fan situations where the location the customer wanted the fan lands dead center on a ceiling joist... Like i said slicker than snot.


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## allbymyself (Jan 17, 2011)

analogmusicman said:


> yeah, the idea of that "pancake box" sure is intriguing but I'm having trouble seeing how a 1/2" box can accomodate the wires even if I AM using #14 romex. I mean that twisting together 2 #14 wires with a wire from the fixture and putting a "wirenut" on there along with stuffing this (X 2 of course) into the fixture base is going to make for a tight fit! maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and cut out the stud so a standard box will fit. (plenty of room in there) I can see that a pro electrician might be able to work with that but I'm just an amature.
> 
> tnx,


I just had this VERY same problem installing a new light fixture over my new mirror in my bathroom remodeling project and the pancake box did the trick. Remember, the plaque of the light fixture becomes the "front" of the pancake box and most are curved not straight flat, so this gives all those wires and wire nuts a nice little place to cuddle.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Don't forget to ground wire the pancake under the screw...... 

Gary


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

well, I picked up a couple of "pancakes" and installed them today. looks like the fixtures we bought at HD should allow enough room for the wires.
had to remove some "rock" between the boxes so I could run the wire,lot's of studs in that wall! must be because of that big mirror that was there. that sucker must have gone 250-275 lbs. the guys who did the work were "pros" so who am I to question the need for so many studs?

tnx,


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

If you are going to use a spray-on texture, that should eliminate the need for a skim coat or repalcing the walls right? Just sand and fill in the major holes and gouges.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

It looks like it has mesh tape in that one damaged area. The reason I mention that is it is recommended to use setting mud with mesh. And it got a little confusing about the prepriming and mudding. You don't want to mud those damaged areas that are down to the rock where the paper is gone without priming/sealing first. Remove what loose material you can and seal with a good primer/sealer to seal dust residue.

I've never had much luck sanding paper tabs that stick up from the old paper. Usually, I go back to where the paper is still firmly on the wall and cut it. Pull the tab off then seal it and skim.

Mike mentioned a Zinsser product. 
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=221 ?

I haven't used that product yet. Call me strange, but I have had good luck with oil for sealing down surfaces like the damaged areas before skimming.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

yeah,I'm going to prime everything using the Zinnser primer then mud to get the walls relatively flat. then I'll "blast" on plenty of texture (using my compressor/texture gun) this will cover any imperfections.

tnx,


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Need to make sure you remove as much adhesive/glue from the wall paper as you can, and I would prime the complete wall before adding texture.

Is that damaged area in the pic where the mirror was?


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

boman47k said:


> Need to make sure you remove as much adhesive/glue from the wall paper as you can, and I would prime the complete wall before adding texture.
> 
> Is that damaged area in the pic where the mirror was?


yeah,the wall where the mirror was looks like h..l! the rest of the walls aren't too bad.

all walls have been primed. next is mud to make 'em smooth then texture,then paint.

tnx,


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Good luck---have fun---Mike---


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

oh'mike said:


> Good luck---have fun---Mike---


I'm lucky my "assistant" (my wife) is "willing and able":thumbsup: since I'm disabled. she is unemployed so it's easier to do projects. I just tell her what to do and she usually does very well. still have a problem sometimes sending her to get a tool from my workshop when she's never heard of that tool.:yes:

tnx,


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

A willing and able assistant is a wonderful thing! Glad you have one.-Mike-


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

working on the "mirror wall",starting to look decent. been using the "green lid" mud. (it sands easy) what is "blue lid" used for? easy to sand?

tnx,


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## proremodel (Jan 30, 2011)

Green lid is for filling voids. Blue is more for first coat taping. I use 20 min mud (normally 2 coats) then finish with topcoat mud (tinted 3). The green I use every once in awhile when I have (big holes to fill). Keep up the great work.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I usually use the blue lid for the finish coat.


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

boman47k said:


> I usually use the blue lid for the finish coat.


Ditto.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

the "mirror wall" is looking better all the time with all the mud I've been putting on it. just wondering if I should put another coat of primer on it when it's done since I've got some "Kilz" going to waste and there are just a few spots where the mesh tape is still showing through. any opinions?

tnx,


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

When you have the mesh covered and the mud finished, yes. Prime it before you paint it.


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

Prime it and see if the mesh STILL shows. If not, you're good to paint....


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Bj. you propably have more experience at that than I do, but it sounds risky if he is using a paint with a sheen to it. I mean the mesh may not show covered with a flat primer then show if painted with a paint that has a sheen, with my luck. Comment?


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

If you can run your hand over it and it's smooth, I don't see how the mesh "pattern" can "telegraph" through. If the mesh itself is raised above the surface, sure. I really only use mesh for patch work and I can honestly say that at times I can "see" the mesh in a spot or two once I'm done sanding, but I've never had a call-back....


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I sort oof had the same thought on the feeling it, just not sure I trust my sense of touch to be that sensitive.
That being said, I think I do remember doing it like at a corner of a door (small area).


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## bjbatlanta (Jul 16, 2008)

These days I tend to trust my sense of touch more than my aging eyesight. I really don't need reading glasses, my arms are just too short....


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I feel your pain. Same boat here in regard to the eye sight.


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## andrugargy (Feb 9, 2011)

Green cap is to fill the gaps. Blue is more to unite the first layer. I use 20 minutes of clay and then finish with a layer of clay . Green I use from time to time . Keep up the good work.
___________________
Kitchen Renovation


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

contrast this with the previous pic of the "mirror wall". quite an improvement though not perfect. I'll post some pix of the completed bath when it's done which shouldn't be too long since it's about ready for texture.

tnx,


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

That looks really good from here. :thumbsup:


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

Nice looking pancake box  Seriously tho it looks pretty good. Are YOU happy with the results ?


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

Axecutioner-B said:


> Nice looking pancake box  Seriously tho it looks pretty good. Are YOU happy with the results ?


my "assistant" is very happy with the results and that's what counts! personally I'd be content living in a cave with running water. :laughing:

tnx,


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

I said I'd post some pix, so here they are. it took a couple months but the "assistant" is happy!
the texture is heavy "orangepeel". the dry stuff HD sells just doesn't do it so my wife and I decided we'd use only the texture that comes pre-mixed in the bottle from now on. (heavy texture covers a lot of "sins")

now,the bedroom!

tnx,


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