# Increasing Home Efficency



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

1. Insulate and airseal the attic.
2.Yes... although this is probably not the most pertinent issue in the basement, let alone the home. Insulate/airseal the sill boxes/rim joist first.
3.Insulation is good.

I'd highly recommend an energy audit. This would give you a detailed report of the problem spots in your home and the results that you could see by addressing them. It will help you prioritize the projects on a cost vs benefit basis.They typically cost $2-$400, however, many states have rewards programs where you can get cash back based on the improvements and performance achieved thereafter. In WI, most homeowners get _more_ back than they spend on the audit itself with the Focus on Energy program.


----------



## 1910NE (Sep 5, 2010)

matt151617 said:


> I have an oil boiler and would like to save as much money as possible this winter. I'm in northern NY and it gets pretty cold. House is 1 story, built in the 1950s. Attic and basement are both unfinished and not used. There's R19 fiberglass insulation (with paper backing) on the basement ceiling and attic floor. The house gets pretty hot in the summer. There's new vinyl windows and doors in the whole house.
> 
> 1. What would be the most cost-effective things to insulate/increase insulation on? What type of insulation should I use?
> 
> ...


1) Attic seal and R value increase, as mentioned
2) How deep is the basement? I personally think it's a waste of time to insulate below the frost line. Definitely insulate the sill though..
4) I wouldn't bother. A warm basement is only going to contribute to a warm 1st floor.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Basement is about 7 feet, about 6 feet of it is below the ground. I was told it stays in the mid 50s without additional heating.

Thanks for the info on the energy audit. New York offers free ones, I looked it up and submitted the paperwork.

What's the best way to add more insulation to the attic? Additional rolled fiberglass? Or blow-in?


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

To the previous comments and recommendations.

Blow in (cellulose) is best.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Agreed on blown-in cellulose.... That is great that you can get the audit for free. Do you know if they do a post test as well? That really insures that the installations are effective.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Not sure if they'll do a post test or not.

I researched blown-in, it would be about $700 to have a professional do it, and $450 to do it myself. Lowes has rolls of R-30 right now for $10, so this would be the cheapest option for me; add another layer of insulation sideways across the existing attic insulation.

As far as the basement; at some point I plan on finishing it. What exactly should I insulate now? With the pipes uninsulated and below the floor insulation, it seems like that heat will mostly be wasted. Do I just stuff fiberglass insulation into the gap between the floor and the start of the foundation blocks?


----------



## 595287 (Jan 4, 2010)

The rim joist (space between basement ceiling joists) should be air sealed. This can be achieved using Great Stuff Pro applied using a professional reusable gun. You can get the gun at HD for $40 and the cartridges for ~$9 each. Spray in the crack (corner) all away around and then use fiberglass batts for R value. I've also read using XPS cut to fit and pressed tight against rim joist. And then foam
Any gap all away around.

Attic should be air sealed. And then insulated. Blowing cellulose will be easier yo do than fiberglass bats in the attic. Remember, the value is in every tiny detail. Blown cellulose will fill gaps that are very hard to fill using fiberglass.

You should probably go to www.buildingscience.com for lots of detailed possible solutions for your zone.


----------



## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

1910NE said:


> 1) Attic seal and R value increase, as mentioned
> 2) How deep is the basement? I personally think it's a waste of time to insulate below the frost line. Definitely insulate the sill though..
> 4) *I wouldn't bother. A warm basement is only going to contribute to a warm 1st floor.*


1910NE, I respectfully disagree based on my own experience. We have an oil fired boiler with single pipe steam. We had a toasty warm basement - I dropped a big chunk of change to insulate all the supply pipes with solid 2-4 inch thick insulation. This has saved us a MASSIVE amount of money - we've recouped the cost of insulation AND our oil consumption dropped in half (and we actually keep the house warmer than we did that first winter). 

I'd rather have more money in the bank, a warmer house, and a cool basement - the basement never gets colder than 58 degrees in my zone anyway - even when the air temp is in the teens.


----------



## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

Insulating the rim joints should be your first priority in the basement.:thumbsup:


----------



## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Msradell said:


> Insulating the rim joints should be your first priority in the basement.:thumbsup:


:laughing::laughing::laughing: @Msradell I'm agreeing with you a lot today. :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Leah Frances said:


> 1910NE, I respectfully disagree based on my own experience. We have an oil fired boiler with single pipe steam. We had a toasty warm basement - I dropped a big chunk of change to insulate all the supply pipes with solid 2-4 inch thick insulation. This has saved us a MASSIVE amount of money - we've recouped the cost of insulation AND our oil consumption dropped in half (and we actually keep the house warmer than we did that first winter).
> 
> I'd rather have more money in the bank, a warmer house, and a cool basement - the basement never gets colder than 58 degrees in my zone anyway - even when the air temp is in the teens.


+1

Heating the basement is like heating the Earth and is not necessary.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Went out today and bought $40 worth of pipe insulation and did all the boiler and domestic hot water pipes. The rim joist is difficult to get to, there's a board covering it for some reason. But it's full of R19.

I crawled up the attic today (heard a weird noise up there last night and wanted to see if there's any animals up there). There seems to be tar paper/felt under the insulation. Then there's R19 batts (unfaced) on top of that. Over the sunroom (which has good vinyl windows and was used year-round by the previous owners) there's no insulation! No vapor barrier, nothing, just plain drywall.

So what's my best approach to insulating the attic properly? It's a very low attic and difficult to move around in. A few spots (going to sunroom) require lying on your stomach and sliding on the plank walkways. I don't think a rolled up batt would even fit. Should I hire someone to do blown-in?


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Blown in is probably best.

What is the attic venting like?


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

I could see sunlight under the eves in a few spots (soffit vents I'm guessing). There's 2 vents in the attic ceiling also. It was about 65 and sunny here today and the attic was probably about 80.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

matt151617 said:


> I could see sunlight under the eves in a few spots (soffit vents I'm guessing). There's 2 vents in the attic ceiling also. It was about 65 and sunny here today and the attic was probably about 80.


Make sure that the blown in insulation does not obstruct the soffits.


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Post a pic of the rim covered by boards. http://www.quadlock.com/technical_library/bulletins/R-ETRO_Value_of_Basement_Insulation.pdf
http://www.professionalroofing.net/archives/past/mar02/feature2.asp

Gary


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

GBR in WA said:


> Post a pic of the rim covered by boards. http://www.quadlock.com/technical_library/bulletins/R-ETRO_Value_of_Basement_Insulation.pdf
> http://www.professionalroofing.net/archives/past/mar02/feature2.asp
> 
> Gary


+1

I remember reading where there was only a 2 degree shift in shingle temperature in Las Vegas for that matter (i.e. extremely hot) between a well vented and completely unvented assembly.


----------



## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Lol, location, location, location. I'm working at a 200 unit apt. complex with 38' trusses from '60's with no intake or exhaust venting, no problems.....

These are of interest, I haven't used them yet; http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1496-05.pdf

http://www.joelstiburek.com/topten/south.htm

http://www.baileyeng.com/paston_effect.htm

Gary


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

GBR in WA said:


> Lol, location, location, location. I'm working at a 200 unit apt. complex with 38' trusses from '60's with no intake or exhaust venting, no problems.....
> 
> These are of interest, I haven't used them yet; http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1496-05.pdf
> 
> ...


Warm up there...? :laughing:

It is all part of the Sauna/Steam room feature on the building.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)




----------



## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

It would certainly be easy to fill that area with foam and provide good insulation plus prevent air infiltration. Surly a good place to start, that fiberglass isn't doing much good.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

So just buy about 40 cans of Great Stuff and start filling that area in?


----------



## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

matt151617 said:


> So just buy about 40 cans of Great Stuff and start filling that area in?


You could certainly do that but you probably want to do some looking around for some of the larger kits, they provide better foam you would probably be much cheaper in the long run. Those cans don't go very far!


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Msradell said:


> You could certainly do that but you probably want to do some looking around for some of the larger kits, they provide better foam you would probably be much cheaper in the long run. Those cans don't go very far!


+1

Buy a larger 2-part kit and get to spraying.

Foam is your friend in this case.


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Any clue where those are sold? All I saw in Lowes and Walmart was a few hundred regular cans of Great Stuff.


----------



## strategery (Jul 18, 2011)

There's a lot of them sold online. I would do a lot of research first.

I think there's one called tiger spray foam and foam it green. Temperature of the foam is extremely important. It's a bit of an expense so you want to do your homework and proceed carefully.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Find a local building supply house (sells windows, roofing, etc). They should have what's called a "froth pack". Its a small 2-part foam kit, usually in the neighborhood of a few hundred bucks (maybe $400).


----------



## matt151617 (Jun 26, 2011)

Should insulating the rim joists be done all around the whole basement or just the 2 ends where the floor joists end? One end is totally inaccessible due to a bathroom and large storage cabinet. One of the sides would also be difficult to do due to an addition.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

matt151617 said:


> Should insulating the rim joists be done all around the whole basement or just the 2 ends where the floor joists end? One end is totally inaccessible due to a bathroom and large storage cabinet. One of the sides would also be difficult to do due to an addition.


Do it where you can access it.

Ideally, the basement is unfinished and you can get to everything but that is often not the case.


----------

