# Found my in my attic while looking for air leaks



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

The problem with the mold is from stuffing the insulation to occlude the soffit vents. Why did you do that? Air in the attic should be the same as the outside air and that air must circulate to higher up exit vents, either gable or ridge vents. I see you have gable vents.

At this point moving the insulation from the soffit vent occlusion would be good, but you have the mold which must be remediated. I don't think it will go away on its own.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

That style roof is a tough one to vent properly.
I would have suggested a Ridge vent and a soffit vent like this that mounts to the roof.
https://dciproducts.com/smartvent-attic-ventilation/
The mold can be treated with this.
https://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/boracare-with-moldcare-p-1265.html
A few things I often find in older homes that have been modernized is an old chimney chase that runs into the attic, but has been removed to below the roof and never air sealed.
Another big one I've found dozens of times is around the windows where someone has installed new replacement windows, but never took the time to pull the old trim off on the inside to fill all the gaps with insulation.
On the sides there will be a huge hole all the way to the outside where the old window weights where, and another one under the stool.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> The problem with the mold is from stuffing the insulation to occlude the soffit vents. Why did you do that? Air in the attic should be the same as the outside air and that air must circulate to higher up exit vents, either gable or ridge vents. I see you have gable vents.
> 
> At this point moving the insulation from the soffit vent occlusion would be good, but you have the mold which must be remediated. I don't think it will go away on its own.


Thanks for the reply. Let me be more clear. The insulation was installed by the previous owner. The pictures are what I discovered when I climbed up there the other say. I realize the vents are blocked and it wasn't until I pulled a piece of the insulation out that I discovered the mold. It looks bad too.




joecaption said:


> That style roof is a tough one to vent properly.
> I would have suggested a Ridge vent and a soffit vent like this that mounts to the roof.
> https://dciproducts.com/smartvent-attic-ventilation/
> The mold can be treated with this.
> ...


I like the idea of the roof mounted vents rather than air traveling up the second floor wall into the attic. I'm not sure whats up there or in the walls but there is evidence of nests and other animal breaches in the soffits. The chimney was utilized for the oil burner until several years ago and the mortar is not in great shape on the roof. I think the best approach for now considering its freakin freezing out, Is to pull the insulation away from the vents as Chandler stated, find and seal any major air leaks, and treat for mold. 

What say you?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Update:

So I bought a Tyvek suit and went up into the attic the other day to see what I could find.
There is a lot of mold, black spots and grey mold growing on the front side of the house which get no sun. There was also ice buildup on that side. on the east wall where my sons freezing room is, the wall was wet. So i'm losing heat to the attic on that side. I also found that the 2nd floor bathroom vent hose was buried in insulation and filled with mold. I pulled all the insulation away from the soffit vents but I couldn't really get back there to see anything else.

So I shut all the doors upstairs and took a reading with my infared thermometer several hours later. My room was 73 degrees and my sons room was 45 degrees. The North wall was 10 degrees cooler than the other walls everywhere I shot it!


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Determine the cause of the mold & correct that first. Unblock all vents. How does one enter the attic, pull down stairs, a regular stair case or a trap door?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Determine the cause of the mold & correct that first. Unblock all vents. How does one enter the attic, pull down stairs, a regular stair case or a trap door?


There is a trap door in my room. I'm pretty sure the mold is a result of the soffit vents being completely blocked. The 30 degree temperature difference in my sons room the anomaly.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

QUOTE: Salbreth1

I have two bathroom exhaust vents as well but Im not sure where they exit yet. Im betting the attic. 

I also found that the 2nd floor bathroom vent hose was buried in insulation and filled with mold.
*********************************************************
You've found what is causing the mold so If you can't change that until warmer weather at least cease using those bath fans by disabling them until you can remedy that problem.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Salbreth, I was trying to determine what was causing the draft in the center stairs. That's why I asked about the attic entrance. So my next question: Is your bedroom south of the other bedroom?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Guap0_ said:


> Salbreth, I was trying to determine what was causing the draft in the center stairs. That's why I asked about the attic entrance. So my next question: Is your bedroom south of the other bedroom?


no problem, my bedroom is west of the other room. The upstairs is symmetrical. A bedroom on each side and bathroom in the center. The draft is definitely coming from my sons room. When I shut his door and dam the bottom the draft is gone. 

I lit matches under my door and the bathroom door and their is virtually no air movement. Under his door the flame goes 90 degrees. 8|

There are no air leaks in his room. the cold is radiating off the walls and down the stairs.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

If the draft is coming from his room, it has to enter his room first. How is it entering his room?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Here lies the anomaly. When his door is open, cold air rushes out and down the stairs and hot air enters higher in the door way. I confirmed this with the flame trick though I can feel the hot air on my face and cold air on my ankles.

When his door is shut, air rushes out the 1/2" gap at the bottom. So yes, air must be entering his room from somewhere else. I checked the baseboard trim and everywhere else. No holes. The windows are new and I pulled the trim to check for insulation which there was. no air leaks from the windows. The north wall is 10 degrees cooler than the other 2 exterior walls. I'm going with demons...


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Open his door. Walk slowly around his room with the flame. See where it's affected most. Bring a step ladder with you.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

ok, I just clarified some things. I walked around his room with a candle. No deflection whatsoever at numerous points. Little to no deflection at the outlets and the same around the windows.

Ok, so I shut his door and ran a match across the bottom opening. No deflection. I'm not sure why I thought their was, but anyway that's a good thing. So, with his door shut, no deflection and no draft. Open his door and the heat pours in at the top and the match wont stay lit at the bottom. The cold, dense air rushes down the stairs.

So the draft is a result of the natural convection of the house which is a symptom of the undiscovered air leaks, ventilation and insulation problems in the attic that are keeping his walls cold.

On a side note, my son does not like me crawling around the perimeter of his room with a lit candle, lol. He is 3.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

I bet that he doesn't like sleeping in that cold room either. I imagine that you leave the door opened at night.
Back to the draft: So the room is cold & when the door is opened, the air rises. Now the question is, Why is that room so cold? What kind of heating system do you have? It seems that you just have to balance the heat.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

yea he has been sleeping in our room. I thought balancing the heat would solve the issue but not so much. The previous owner put many vents in the floors to solve the issue but they didn't work. I closed them all up and it made a big difference in our room and the 1st floor rooms under my sons room.

I have 2 heat pumps. One in my room and one in my living room. I also have a 50k BTU pellet stove in the breezway which has been enclosed. The pellet stove is at the opposite side of the house from my sons room upstairs and their are no other vents in his room.

I know part of the problem is moving air into his room. but his walls are significantly colder than anywhere else in the house. If I leave his door open. Even now it is 15 degrees outside. I just grabbed the infrared gun and its 73 in my room and everywhere else in the house, 60 in his room and 49 degrees on his north wall. The other walls in his room are 60 degrees.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Salbreth1;4958594
So the draft is a result of the natural convection of the house which is a symptom of the undiscovered air leaks said:


> ************************************************
> I believe you'll find the same natural air flow_ - without air leaks, ventilation or insulation problems_ - when you open the refrigerator door.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

How about a vent in the wall between your room & his or even a fan?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> ************************************************
> I believe you'll find the same natural air flow_ - without air leaks, ventilation or insulation problems_ - when you open the refrigerator door.


lol maybe, but opening his door feels like i opened the freezer and starts moving some serious air.

I thought of putting a vent or something similar in his room, but I think its a band aid until I figure out why his walls are freezing. Realistically there is more air moving in and out of his room than anywhere else.

Efficiency Vermont has a free energy audit so I may call them and see if they can crawl around the attic and find the issues. I just don't have the time. I was tempted to pull all the sheet rock off the walls to see what the hell is going on back there...


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

Is there air movement a the electric boxes? Are there 1, or 2 exterior walls in his room? What the temperature at the exterior walls and the interior walls. I think you have a problem with poor insulation at the exterior walls.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

I agree. there is no air movement at the receptacles. There are 3 exterior walls. two of them read 60 degrees including the interior wall. but the north facing exterior wall reads 49 degrees. The soffit vents for this wall start at the first floor ceiling and run up into the attic.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

The soffit vents being blocked didn't cause the cold wall and mold in the attic. Long before soffit vents were invented there was no mold in attics. 

The bath fans caused the mold and until that ducting can be corrected disable the fans. The cold wall is caused by 0 insulation in that wall and I'm willing to gamble half my SS check on all the above. It wouldn't surprise me if there was mold in the wall being it has been allowed to reach dew point temperature and far below DP for so long.

Like said on Sharktank, I'm out.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

SeniorSitizen said:


> The soffit vents being blocked didn't cause the cold wall and mold in the attic. Long before soffit vents were invented there was no mold in attics.
> 
> The bath fans caused the mold and until that ducting can be corrected disable the fans. The cold wall is caused by 0 insulation in that wall and I'm willing to gamble half my SS check on all the above. It wouldn't surprise me if there was mold in the wall being it has been allowed to reach dew point temperature and far below DP for so long.
> 
> Like said on Sharktank, I'm out.


Thanks for your insight. the bathroom vent has been decommissioned for now. I don't know what to do about the wall right now. Its 5 degrees here going down to -14 tonight. I have his door shut and its 45 degrees in there. How the hell did the previous owner deal with this for 32 years? The cold wall is 11' wide. Maybe I should grab 3 sheets of rock and a couple rolls of R19. I'm scared of what ill find back there...


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Salbreth1 said:


> How the hell did the previous owner deal with this for 32 years?


It seems for many with a lack of knowledge there is nothing to be concerned about and they just kinda float through life with no worries. There are times when I wish I could have had more of those attributes. :biggrin2:


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Touche... I wish I could do the same but the seed has been planted. I cant understand how their could be no insulation in that wall. The house was resided recently with Hardy Plank. Maybe someone did something stupid.


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## 2Quiker (Dec 14, 2017)

joecaption said:


> The mold can be treated with this.
> https://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/boracare-with-moldcare-p-1265.html


This stuff is strong. You need a good respirator.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

So I cut a piece of dry wall out of my sons room on the north wall (cold wall)....

There is an access there that extends 3'past his wall and runs full length of the house and tapers up to the attic. I can stand up back there. The wall is completely insulated all the way down to my room and zero mold to my surprise. The soffit vents start at the floor and allow outside air to occupy the entire space all the way up to the attic.

now what? lol

But I remember talking with the previous owner. He recently had the house sided with Hardy Plank, but he said he did the east wall himself, which is about 19' of my sons room. Maybe he replaced plywood and never insulated it or did a piss poor job. It would explain why the east wall in the attic was wet while the other 3 walls were frozen.


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## jkk (Mar 28, 2010)

Salbreth1 said:


> ... I also found that the 2nd floor bathroom vent hose was buried in insulation and filled with mold...


 just to clarify - was the hose and be hose exit buried? Or just the hose buried but the exit open to the attic?


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

The vent exit was under the new insulation that was loosely placed up there.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

I'm the new guy here so not really sure I should chime in. But I am intrigued by your problem. The bathroom vent into the attic space certainly contributed to the mold. Maybe that's all it was. Good catch!

The 49-degree wall is the big mystery. If it's properly insulated, as you said you've already discovered, that makes absolutely no sense. You say there's a dead air space, vented to the outside, between that wall's insulation and the roof. None of that should equate to an inside wall surface that's 11 degrees less than the other two outside walls. something in this picture is incomplete.

I think your idea of ripping out the sheetrock and starting over on that wall might be the only way you'll be able to put this behind you. And you can't really use the room now, anyway. Tedious, yes, but you'll get your answer.


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## Salbreth1 (Dec 11, 2017)

So after some trial and error I think I may have jumped the gun on the cold wall situation. When I was in the dead space area of that wall I noticed some of the insulation was not coming all the way to the bottom of the wall. The wind in there gets gusty and could have been blowing it around over the years. I shut the heat pump off in my bedroom and the temperature dropped to the my sons room. Aside from the mold issue I think this is a matter of moving air into his room. I have the power company coming out to install a 9000btu heat pump into his room that will connect to my existing condenser.


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