# Can Romex and a gas line share the same run?



## Grampa Bud (Apr 6, 2009)

You should be alright with Romex in that space, but if there are any nails, screw points, or other possible sharp points sticking into that open space you might want to consider pulling some Greenfield up there and then pulling in your 3 14's or 3 12's.


----------



## Saturday Cowboy (Nov 29, 2009)

I wouldn't use romex, but the use of the flue for a chase does not bother me. I would use conduit or at the very least MC cable.


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

*Gas/romex etc.*

I would ask the gassy tech's if they can run a ng-gas/propane line with electric wires in the same space. 
I imagine it might depend on the bonding??

Bob


----------



## bobelectric (Mar 3, 2007)

I wouldn't use 14-3, because of the code changes requiring AFCI breakers. They need 
their own neutral.​


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

*Shared Neutral*

I have never used a shared neutral. It didn't make sense to me.

It seemed penny wise, and dollar foolish.

Bob


----------



## AndyinAtl (Mar 22, 2009)

Hourglass52 said:


> I have never used a shared neutral. It didn't make sense to me.
> 
> It seemed penny wise, and dollar foolish.
> 
> Bob


Can you explain why? It is both economically and electrically sound to use a shared neutral.


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

*So called ballanced circuits.*

Lets just say I have done allot of "old" work. 
With all of the newer appliances out there I have repaired/replaced many shared neutral connections/runs. 
People will overload almost any circuit. 
Why build a possible overload condition in the circuit?
A balanced circuit sounds good in theory, but add the human factor and it isn't so good.




AndyinAtl said:


> Can you explain why? It is both economically and electrically sound to use a shared neutral.


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

AndyinAtl said:


> Can you explain why? It is both economically and electrically sound to use a shared neutral.


Welcome back andy!:yes:


----------



## Andy-n-ATL (Apr 25, 2010)

lol thnx. Been out of the electrical industry for a coupla years and i'm not super up to speed on the '08 or '11 code but I do know that dropping a 14/3 down a chase to pick up two lighting circuits is a fine idea.:whistling2:

I am curious what "new appliances" would prevent a MWBC from being used. I mean really?:huh:


----------



## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

bobelectric said:


> I wouldn't use 14-3, because of the code changes requiring AFCI breakers. They need
> their own neutral.​


Andy, this is the major reason not to use a mwbc now.
Much cheaper to run extra wire than try to find a 2 pole arc fault breaker.


----------



## AndyinAtl (Mar 22, 2009)

Duh. See what I mean?

From what I can see the trend will continue until the entire house is AFCI protected. Which is a good thing.


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

*To late*

2011 code has everything on a GFCI or an AFCI for residential.

210.12(A) for AFCI




From what I can see the trend will continue until the entire house is AFCI protected. Which is a good thing.[/quote]


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Hourglass52 said:


> With all of the newer appliances out there I have repaired/replaced many shared neutral connections/runs.
> People will overload almost any circuit.
> Why build a possible overload condition in the circuit?
> A balanced circuit sounds good in theory, but add the human factor and it isn't so good.


I know we are getting off topic here, but this is completely false and makes absolutely NO sense.

WHAT "overload condition" are you referring to??


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Oh, and I know of no spacing restrictions between a gas line and NM cable. You just cannot tie the NM cable to the gas line.


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

You have never seen one of those old screw in receptacle adapters in a light socket. We have a hardware store in town where you can still buy those adapters and cut off the ground prong and plug in your air conditioner.

I have worked on rentals for 35 years. I have seen some crazy stuff. 
Old dairy and horse barns. Old tractor sheds with bare wires twisted together and exposed next to a door.

I won't get into what I saw when I was a volunteer fire fighter.

This old house I live in "had" a shared neutral ( installed by a licensed electrician) in the kitchen that was installed in 1998.

Shared neutrals sound good in theory but I won't do it. I have done the math, and seen how it really works.
With a 15 amp #14 shared neutral you have the potential of putting a 90 amp short on 1 #14 wire. 
I don't like shared neutrals.

I don't like any aluminum wire either. If the money is there I will use copper. I prefer to put the service underground also.
My side of the meter is MY work.





Speedy Petey said:


> I know we are getting off topic here, but this is completely false and makes absolutely NO sense.
> 
> WHAT "overload condition" are you referring to??


----------



## Andy-n-ATL (Apr 25, 2010)

Errr I'm still confused:huh:. Of course any homeowner can do all sorts of wacky stuff to put to much load (amperage) on a circuit. A properly installed breaker kinda mitigates the danger of this though right?

You had this shared neutral in your kitchen...I'm curious why you changed it. Were YOU overloading one of the legs on the shared circuit? Did you think having separate neutrals was going to solve this problem? What sort of situation can you envision where separate neutrals could cause some sort of fire hazard in a residential situation based on current codes when properly installed?

I understand if a circuit is being serviced while energized and the neutral is broken bad stuff could happen...but current code prevents that from happening.

Are you saying that the millions of residential shared neutral circuits currently installed in residences and the ka-frikkin-jillions installed in commercial buildings only just "sound good in theory"?

And again let me say that after 12 years as a resi electrician (new construction, re-modeling, and EXTENSIVE service experience) and 5 years commercial experience I have been out of it for a few years due to the economy. So maybe I'm missing something here....

Like I stated earlier, I'm just confused...:yes:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Hourglass52 said:


> Shared neutrals sound good in theory but I won't do it. *I have done the math, and seen how it really works.*
> With a 15 amp #14 shared neutral you have the potential of putting a 90 amp short on 1 #14 wire.


HUH???
I'm sorry. All this tells me is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you aware that the service entering your home is simply one big "shared neutral" circuit? :whistling2:


----------



## Hourglass52 (Dec 27, 2010)

Do you realize it takes as much as 3 times the current value of a breaker to trip it???

I said on MY side of the meter !!
Can you read.

I work under 3 masters and 2 inspectors. Lets drop this.



Speedy Petey said:


> HUH???
> I'm sorry. All this tells me is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Are you aware that the service entering your home is simply one big "shared neutral" circuit? :whistling2:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Hourglass52 said:


> Do you realize it takes as much as 3 times the current value of a breaker to trip it???


Once again. No clue. :icon_rolleyes:


----------



## AndyinAtl (Mar 22, 2009)

Hourglass52 said:


> I have done the math, and seen how it really works.
> With a 15 amp #14 shared neutral you have the potential of putting a 90 amp short on 1 #14 wire.
> I don't like shared neutrals.


I guess a few years off has proven I'm rusty in the use of Ohm's law too.:no: Would you please school me on how you came up with these figures? 

No one is disputing your right to wire any way you see fit on your side of the meter...however this is a do-it-yourself site and many homeowners may be mislead into believing you know what you are talking about. Which you clearly don't.

Stating you work under 3 Master Electricians and two Inspectors is irrevelant.

Just because a Master Electrician states that something is true in the world of electrical theory doesn't make it true if it is not in fact true.:laughing:

Aluminium conductors are just fine when installed in a code compliant way.


----------



## AndyinAtl (Mar 22, 2009)

Lets do some math just for fun. Y'all chime in if i screw this up.

I=Amps ?
E=Volts 120
R=Resistance .03ohms (10 foot of #14AWG)

How much amperage would be on this wire if I had a short circuit? (please be gentle when mentioning all the other factors involved here...this is just for simpicities sake)

Ohm's law states E/R=I
120/.03=4000A

Is 4000 plus amps bad to have on a 14awg wire? Well sure BUT it is what trips the breaker so quick.

Not sure where the 90A number came from:whistling2: Not sure where a shared neutral has anything to do with a short circuit either.:wink:

Ohm's Law isn't Ohm's theory....It's Ohm's Law.:yes: Everytime.


----------

