# Secondary Condensate Pan



## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

We need to replace the secondary condensate pan under our attic mounted horizontal condensing furnace. Currently the pan is too small and a leak has damaged the drywall below (the unit itself is leaking - separate issue). 

The repair company wants to install a "plastic" pan when they fix the unit, but from all the posts I have read, most seem to think the plastic will become brittle and break or have pinholes and will not do its job. Many of the posts I read are older, so is a galvanized sheet metal pan still the way to go? Or are the newer plastics more flexible/denser?

And can the pan replacement be a diy job? Where would you purchase one or would a sheet metal company need to make on? Thanks.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Plastic pans are the way to go today, they have different widths and lengths and most have a overflow hole already in them for an emergency drain to be installed.

Possible DIY depends on if you can get to it and install the drain system properly.


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## hvacguytn615 (Mar 3, 2011)

both typs of pans work fine and if you add in a inline float switch clean and check the drain line each year it will reduce the chances of water ever geting to the pan diy the hard part is geting the unit high enough to swap pans with out taking off the duct work if your system has flex duct from the return and supply its a somewhat simple job if the duct work is solid mounted to the unit then you will have to decide if your skill level will let tackel this job or pay someone els to avoid the headachs


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Install drain pan (secondary) float switch so if water builds up due to clog in secondary drain line and water builds up in pan the switch will cut the system off and you know you have a problem without any water damage. All of it easy. We still use metal pans, they are not going anywhere.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't use float switches I just pipe the overflow drain pan separate from the primary drain to a different location where the owner would see water coming out of it. Then I tell them if they ever see water coming out of it there's a problem call the HVAC Company for service and shut down the unit.

I guess there's several options to choose from.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> I don't use float switches I just pipe the overflow drain pan separate from the primary drain to a different location where the owner would see water coming out of it. Then I tell them if they ever see water coming out of it there's a problem call the HVAC Company for service and shut down the unit.
> 
> I guess there's several options to choose from.


 
The whole point of a float switch in a drain pan is if the actual drain line (on the way out to above a window so a home owner can see water dripping and know there is a problem) gets clogged with lets say insulation and dirt and whatever else and water builds up in the pan it will shut off the system so no more water can accumulate and overflow causing water damage. If you don't have a float switch and the line gets clogged then there are going to be problems.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

ps, ALL secondary drain lines are piped individually or they should be, that's out of the equation. If not then in line float switches should be used. I also install the "T" float switch in the secondary drain outlet of the evaporatar coil so if the main drain backs up and the water does not spill into the secondary pan below but tries and makes its way out of the evaporator through the secondary line the system will shut off.

Always two float switches, no ifs, ands or behinds about it.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Holliday said:


> ps, ALL secondary drain lines are piped individually or they should be, that's out of the equation. If not then in line float switches should be used. I also install the "T" float switch in the secondary drain outlet of the evaporatar coil so if the main drain backs up and the water does not spill into the secondary pan below but tries and makes its way out of the evaporator through the secondary line the system will shut off.
> 
> Always two float switches, no ifs, ands or behinds about it.


"Float switches are a Electrical Mechanical piece of equipment subject to failure at anytime". Drain line no electric or floats to stick. Look Doc I'm not saying your wrong or any one else I'm just saying there's more than 1 way to look at it.
You would probably laugh when I tell you I run the secondary drain above a bathtub or shower just so someone notices it soon after. No I'm not a scab.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> "Float switches are a Electrical Mechanical piece of equipment subject to failure at anytime". Drain line no electric or floats to stick. Look Doc I'm not saying your wrong or any one else I'm just saying there's more than 1 way to look at it.
> You would probably laugh when I tell you I run the secondary drain above a bathtub or shower just so someone notices it soon after. No I'm not a scab.


 
Know that in Houston you will never, never ever ever ever ever pass an inspection without a float switch. It has been required by code for many years.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Electrical component that can fail? A compresssor or a blower motor, now those are electrical components that can fail. A float _*switch*_ is nothing more than a switch that breaks 24 volts and although switches can get stuck, it's very rare. How often does your light switch for your kitchen get stuck versus how many times you've replaced that light bulb? The bedroom light bulb versus switch? Living room, den, garage, anywhere?

I've never come across a float switch that went bad.

Next.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> "Float switches are a Electrical Mechanical piece of equipment subject to failure at anytime". Drain line no electric or floats to stick. Look Doc I'm not saying your wrong or any one else I'm just saying there's more than 1 way to look at it.
> You would probably laugh when I tell you I run the secondary drain above a bathtub or shower just so someone notices it soon after. No I'm not a scab.


 
I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time swallowing you saying "I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong." You have no right to suggest that adding a safety switch to protect from water damage is wrong. The chance of a drain line getting clogged far exceeds the chance of a safety device, which you are supposed to check once installed to make sure it is working, failing. It makes no sense, "Hey, I believe this has the ever so slightest chance of not protecting you and your ceiling or floor so I'll just not install it and in the event that the drain line clogs (which again, far exceeds the chance of a float switch "failing") we'll just hope that water floats and stays suspended in mid air."..?

I'm not trying to argue with you albeit I'm sure it sounds like it but I am outright saying that you are fully in the wrong. Might as well get a tattoo across your forehead stating, "I do inadequate work and am a hack. Want your ceiling to cave in? Call me."

I'm only trying to get you to see the light of day on this one, bud. There simply is no alternative and it does piss me off that you are out there giving us a bad name. When that ceiling caves in, all of us will look inadequate thanks to you.

Sorry, this will be my last post on the subject. It should be anyways.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

if you want to protect from water damage then use a wet switch. On a float switch the pan has fill up with water before activating the switch to shut the system down. With a wet switch, as soon as moisture is sensed it will shut the system down.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Holliday said:


> Know that in Houston you will never, never ever ever ever ever pass an inspection without a float switch. It has been required by code for many years.


" Coldiron out"


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

I would think the selection of whether a pan is plastic of metal would depend on access to the attic. Plastic pans are one piece and may not be able to fit through an opening without forcing which may cause breakage, metal however can be assembled in the attic.

Float switch ((edit) or wet switch) as a safety........absolutely, why wouldn't you.

Mark


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."quote]
> 
> 
> No kidding.
> ...


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

wow what a debate!Everybodys got good points on this one. In the valley of the sun ,we get what you call monsoon season and its the time of year when we get hammered by humidity.It sucks because the air is so thick and sticky you can hardly breathe so consequently those a/cs are working overtime.Theres a lot of problems with split systems and the end results are pretty devastating.The output can be as much as a gallon an hr or more.Theres several ways to deal with this.Theres 2 pvc drain lines ran one high and one [email protected] seperate drains.First off there shouldnt be any water in the secondary pan whatsoever and if the pan wasnt properly installed and sloped the weight of the water will actually collapse the pan and then youve got one hell of a mess and one MAD homeowner.I do a number of things to cover my bacon.First of all the height on the air handler has to be high enough to get the slope you need.1/4 slope per foot is usually adequate.I do put the pan below but instead of strapping it up Ill actually use wood and use that to securely support the pan so buckling cannot happen.I make sure the PVC is properly secured and cannot move.I do have to say that Ive seen the damage that this can bring and I want to cover myself from any kind of problems.If you ever priced the repair of one of these nightmares,you wouldnt have any issues at all about doing a little bit of measures to cover your ass.with the switch install 9 out of 10 times the system will shut down before the secondary pan even has a chance to fill up.make sure to use a p-trap and install the tee for a breather as well put the tee in the wrong place and the trap does no good on the neg pressure the blower brings.Think smart,cover your ass in everything you do and you will always have a happy customer that will continue to love you to death and send you referrals.Its nice to know theres people out there that just think your the cats meow!


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

"Fat fingers hitting too many buttons." ~ Priceless!! :thumbup:

It just gets me because the simplest and design and per code demand way to avoid water damage is to simpy install the dang $5.00 float switch. As much I don't agree with COLDIRON I do respect his experience and he has a lot but then again, usually with his amount of experience stemming from all the years in the tade and we're talking decades and on a variety of professional levels, it would seem and make much more sense that it would be him and not me barking for float switches.

What really gets me is that when that ceiling finally does fall in and it was purely and easily avoidable by way of float switch and the home owner does some home work, posts on forums and asks other hvac techs who will straight up tell him how dumb his contractor was for not using a float switch and believe me they will and do, and realizes just how easily avoidable that was and then complains to everyone within earshot of just how dumb and incompetant all hvac techs are, how untrustworthy and unprofessional we are, what a horrible job we do and that finding a good contractor is too hard as they simply do not exist and yadda yadda yadda. It doesn't just affect the immediate contractor who didn't install the switch, it affects us all and for why? Because someone wants to remain stubborn, that's why, even when ALL evidence points to the contrary of his beliefs. 

I just don't get it but oh well..


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

awwhes just old school and has his way of doing things.Back in the day they didnt have the switches and now that theres a way to back up a potential problem ,Id definitly would use them.I havent ever been the cause of a overflow and soforth but I have definitly cleaned up the aftermath of the problem.Its definitly avoidable and its my opinion to do all you can in the customers best interest.If its a money thing than at least explai the option to them and let them decide if they want the added insurance to this potential problem.Last year I sold thesame thing to one of my customers that had 8 apts in one complex.He was tickled pink.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

Its funny because of the comment you made .Not funny funny but funny real.This is what Ive learned in the 30 yrs of my expirience is that you have to be able to give your customer the utmost respect and service that each and everyone of them deserves.You have to stay up on the business to give them important true facts and answers that they are looking for.If you dont know the answer ,dont b.s. them they will actually respect you even more for just reassuring them youll find the answer.The customers are looking to you and your basically GOD to them for helping them with there problems.You do whatever it takes in the utmost professional manner,listen to them intently cuz theyll do your job for ya{TELL YOU WHAT THE PROB IS} they dont know they did but they want someone to take the time and listen.An open ear gos a long way to making people happy.If you piss a customer off ,they will tell at least 10 people,If you treat them like gold they will only tell 1 or 2 people.Thats the part I cant figure out.Give your cust all you got ,itll have a payback you wont believe!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks so much for all the replies. I would be the customer you are all talking about. I do admit I didn't know much about the HVAC system until these problems came about, but after doing some research I have been learning a lot. I want to have the knowledge to talk to the HVAC tech when they come out so I will know what they are talking about and what needs to be done. The customer is definitely looking to the tech for the help! When it is freezing outside and there are sick kids in the house, it means so much to have heat, hot water, power, (all the necessities) so the family can be taken care of. I respect the tech that comes out to my house and I want them to respect me as well. This is just how people should treat each other everyday. Just be honest, fair and treat the customer like you yourself would want to be treated. I worked in the trade industry for a while and know that there are a good many contractors and techs that do want the best for their customer. If I have a bad experience, I may grumble to whoever is in earshot of me, but I just won't use that person again and not recommend them to anyone else who has a similar situation. But if I have a good experience, I definitely recommend that person to others. Actually I recommend, and will go out of my way to recommend, someone who has done a good job. And do this far more than saying any negative comments. So we as the customers, appreciate all that has been said here about wanting to give your customers the best service. We all Thank You!:thumbsup:

Back to the furnace...The furnace's supply and return ducts are all flexible connections and the furnace is supported by blocks of wood (three 2x6's nailed together) which sit in the current metal secondary containment drain pan. The pan is too short due to a replacement furnace and a/c coil being installed. Photos shown below.

COLDIRON and hvacguytn615 You both make a good point about "if you can get to it and install the drain system properly" and "geting the unit high enough to swap pans with out taking off the duct work". Both things that I had thought about. 

If looking at the pictures, the unit is slightly sloped toward you as it should be (not quite 1/4 slope per foot, but close). The existing pan is just flat on the plywood. If a new pan is installed, I don't see how the pan can be sloped with the existing installation?

(In a perfect world, I would like the unit to be suspended from a frame built around the furnace and the secondary condensate pan hung from the unit with everything having it's proper slopes...but that isn't going to happen. I also like 1mastertech's idea of supporting the pan from below to prevent a pan collapse if full of water).

The primary and secondary condensate lines are piped to separate locations. The secondary condensate line is piped to drain over a window, but not a window that you would frequently look out. I guess that is where it is the responsibility of the homeowner to visually inspect the outlet of the pipe during high usage of heat or a/c times. I have to agree with COLDIRON that piping the secondary condensate line to somewhere noticeable is a much better idea. Maybe the garage floor too. Doc Holliday, I do see where a float or wet switch could stop a lot of damage, because things such as blown in insulation or wasps building nests can clog the secondary drain line.

Also, the primary condensate line has the p-trap under the furnace unit. The drain line from the a/c coil comes from the back of the unit and ties into the primary condensate line (just to the left of the photo). The drain line from the a/c coil does not have a p-trap. Isn't that necessary from the coil too?

And yes, my condensate damaged ceiling needs to be replaced...Our next job...


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

photos referred to in above post


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> I would think the selection of whether a pan is plastic of metal would depend on access to the attic. Plastic pans are one piece and may not be able to fit through an opening without forcing which may cause breakage, metal however can be assembled in the attic.
> 
> Float switch ((edit) or wet switch) as a safety........absolutely, why wouldn't you.
> 
> Mark



Mark, how do you assemble a 32" by 74" sheet metal pan in the attic? I thought they were one piece?


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

1mastertech said:


> "...I do a number of things to cover my bacon.First of all the height on the air handler has to be high enough to get the slope you need.1/4 slope per foot is usually adequate.I do put the pan below but instead of strapping it up Ill actually use wood and use that to securely support the pan so buckling cannot happen.I make sure the PVC is properly secured and cannot move...."


1mastertech how do you support the pan with wood. Do you have any pictures?


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Holliday said:


> COLDIRON said:
> 
> 
> > "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."quote]
> ...


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

bettyRubble said:


> photos referred to in above post


" Pan should under the whole air handler"


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## Jackofall1 (Dec 5, 2010)

bettyRubble said:


> Mark, how do you assemble a 32" by 74" sheet metal pan in the attic? I thought they were one piece?


The long side would be left off, and the widest piece would have the ends bent up, pittsburg locks on the sides and then rolled up. 

Once in the attic unroll, insert long side break edge into pittsburg lock and bend over hammer lock.

Seal seams with either caulk or solder.

Mark


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

I am not going to get in the pan debate.......

Where is the water coming from? The rust stains inside the cabinet lead me to believe that furnace is not sloped right. Water appears to be flowing and pooling back and to the left. Is that condensate from the furnace or AC? The last furnace I looked at, that had that problem, had a secondary HX breach.


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## Hubcap626 (Feb 12, 2011)

Technow said:


> I am not going to get in the pan debate.......
> 
> Where is the water coming from? The rust stains inside the cabinet lead me to believe that furnace is not sloped right. Water appears to be flowing and pooling back and to the left. Is that condensate from the furnace or AC? The last furnace I looked at, that had that problem, had a secondary HX breach.


For real. A secondary pan is great and all but get that damn leak fixed and you are not even talking about a secondary pan. 

If you choose to install a new pan go plastic, large enough to fit under entire unit, and get a float switch. Good luck and get that leak taken care of. Something is clogged if this just started to happen.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

WOW iM AMAZED AT HOW THIS JOB IS DONE.Ok Im not sure what the code is in other ares but here anything that goes in the attic has to have a way to be removed from the attic.The hatch is supposed to accomodate the materials thats used. Now what I usually do and it seems to work quite well.It seems like youve got a lot of room to work with.I take sheet metal strips and use unistrut and hang the equipment from the trusses.I measure the width of the equipment and add a few inches to it and hang sheet metal thats approximately 2 inches wide.than wrap the metal around the unistrut and screw the metal so it holds the unistrut in place.You be surprised how strong this holds your equipment. use a level to make sure the system is ok and actually I do allow the system to slant just a little to your drain opening.After your system and coil is hung correctly,Whers it going to go! Its suspended from the trusses and actually it will be steady and quieter so no noise is resinating into the home.Now thats done Look at the pan its not even covering the unit.The secondary pan thats there isnt even under the equipment at all.water could leak from all over up there and the secondary pans not under the system to barely catch anything.You want the pan to be under the a/c coil mostly but I usually protect under the whole thing.This is a positive enforcement for backup on any leaks whatsoever.Myself I would have a fit on this installation because the wood looks like its being used as a stand flat on the deck.If the pan is set flat ,how are you going to achieve any slope to get rid of the water thats not supposed to be in there anyway!Good night me!lol....Ok back to the gameplan! If the furnace is suspended you have all the room in the world to position your pan and support it and secure it so it doesnt have any problemms.If you install the pan the long ways with the unit, you can finagle the wood under the pan so its higher at the beginning and gradually slopes to the direction of the pipes drain.The wood under the pan will support it on the ends and the middle so theres no way in gods green earth it can collapse.After this is completed DEFINITLY INSTALL A FLOAT SWITCCH.! You asked about the extra hole on the a/c coil. Thats an overflow that is used in case the drain plugs up.the height of the hole is designed higher in the coil.the first one is designed to be lower so the water can drain out!are you with me! If the drainlines plugged,the water will rise and go out the second hole{overflow}.The float switch will come premade to actually screw right into that hole and the switch will fit right into the top of the pvc kit.It has 2 wires that wire right into your tstat wires {I use the red wires} and acts like a float on a swamp cooler water line. If thefloat starts to rise the control says to itself "hey we got water rising instead of draining,lets shu8t the system off because its not draining". Using this method will prevent water from hitting your secondary pan in the first place.! when the system doesnt respond to your tstat settings you will know you have a problem.You can actually get creative with this and hook up an alarm to this to let you know theres a problem.Hope it helps or have more questions let me know its a pleaure mam!


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

okon this one if you take straps that are 2 inches wide you cand suspend this system from the trusses and make this drainage problem go away.Use unistrut or use metal angleand put it under the unit itself.you can wrap the meta strip around the angle and screw the metal together and it will hold the angle in place quite well and last for years to com.try to make sure the metal is tight under the system so it will be supported tightly.This is a two man job because of the previous work performed.After the system is supported you can knock the 2xs out of there and the unit will sit on the new hanging platform quite well.definitly use a level because its going to make a difference on how the furnace and the ac is going to drain. you can use rubber grommets to help level it up.This will allow you to install the condensate drain and pan properly! hope this helps out!:thumbsup:


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

*what it should look like*


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks so much everyone for all your replies and help! I really appreciate it! The problem of the unit leaking was addressed under a different post in this forum. I had an HVAC tech come out and suggest that the gasket between the primary and secondary heat exchangers, and the gasket between the water collection box and the secondary heat exchanger, could be leaking. They also gave an estimate on replacing the current secondary condensate pan with a larger plastic pan. I realize that the current pan is too small and it is only under the a/c coil and furnace, not under the blower - where the leak seems to be coming from a cutout in the cabinet. The leak appears to be originating behind the panels where the heat exchangers are located. While this problem is being addressed, I wanted to figure out which type of secondary pan to use, how it should best be installed and if it was a diy project. I have some questions from previous replies in comments below.


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Jackofall1 said:


> The long side would be left off, and the widest piece would have the ends bent up, pittsburg locks on the sides and then rolled up.
> 
> Once in the attic unroll, insert long side break edge into pittsburg lock and bend over hammer lock.
> 
> ...


Mark, Thank you so much for the information. I read about the pittsburg lock. It seems much like a standing seam. Very interesting and looks like a good idea. Out of our diy abilities, but I will ask our HVAC tech if they do this type of installation.


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Technow said:


> I am not going to get in the pan debate.......
> 
> Where is the water coming from? The rust stains inside the cabinet lead me to believe that furnace is not sloped right. Water appears to be flowing and pooling back and to the left. Is that condensate from the furnace or AC? The last furnace I looked at, that had that problem, had a secondary HX breach.


Thanks for your input! The water seems to be coming from the furnace (not the a/c) from behind the panels of the unit that encase the primary and the secondary heat exchangers. You are correct in your observation of water flow. It then drips from a cutout in the unit cabinet to below. But even if the unit were not sloped right, would that have anything to do with the unit leaking from the HX area?

When you say the furnace you looked at had a secondary HX breach, was that breach in the secondary HX itself or in a gasket/connection from the secondary HX to another part of the furnace? Thanks!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

COLDIRON and Hubcap626 Thank you for your replies. Nothing is clogged in the system, as I have checked the drain lines. I believe it is the leak within the furnace.

-------------------------------
​Doc Holliday Thanks so much for the photo! Nice clean installation! Good to see the pan size and how is supported and to see the pvc supports and bracing. 

-------------------------------​
1mastertech Thank you for all your detailed information. Very helpful! Interesting what you say about the code requiring "anything that goes in the attic has to have a way to be removed from the attic" so I take that to mean nothing built in the attic that can't be removed? 

I like the idea of using the unistrut to hang from the trusses so noise isn't resonating into the home and that you can properly slant the unit. I appreciate your detailed information on how to hang the unit, build the support for the secondary condensation pan and how to install a float switch. With this information, I feel more equipped to proceed with fixing some of the problems. I may be asking for some for info as we proceed.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Use a wet switch, not a float switch! In order for a float switch to shut the unit off, the secondary pan has to fill with water. A wet switch will shut the unit down when moisture is sensed.


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

bettyRubble said:


> Thanks for your input! The water seems to be coming from the furnace (not the a/c) from behind the panels of the unit that encase the primary and the secondary heat exchangers. You are correct in your observation of water flow. It then drips from a cutout in the unit cabinet to below. But even if the unit were not sloped right, would that have anything to do with the unit leaking from the HX area?
> 
> When you say the furnace you looked at had a secondary HX breach, was that breach in the secondary HX itself or in a gasket/connection from the secondary HX to another part of the furnace? Thanks!


It was in both places, when the furnace isn't sloped right water sits in the back of the secondary and being slightly acidic, it eats thru the gaskets and the metal. That needs to be fixed very quickly, the water from the secondary is now evaporating inside your furnace.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

bettyRubble said:


> COLDIRON and Hubcap626 Thank you for your replies. Nothing is clogged in the system, as I have checked the drain lines. I believe it is the leak within the furnace.
> 
> -------------------------------​
> 
> ...


 All posts were good thanks and it was my pleasure!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

hvactech126 said:


> Use a wet switch, not a float switch! In order for a float switch to shut the unit off, the secondary pan has to fill with water. A wet switch will shut the unit down when moisture is sensed.


hvactech126 Thanks for the information. Have you ever had an instance where there was a false alarm with the wet switch, since it sits in the bottom of the secondary condensate pan? Such as some other reason that moisture would form in the pan (not from the unit)? If not, then this looks like the way to go since it will shut down the unit without a large amount of water being present. (I don't want to replace the ceiling again!!!)

I know you are not keen on float switches, but how does the Safe-T-Switch SS1 activate? If the pan is sloped and water runs out its drain, and the Safe-T-Switch is installed inline downstream of the pan; would just a trickle of water set it off or would a larger stream be required to trip the float? Thanks again.


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Doc Holliday said:


>


Doc Holliday, I found the picture you posted (when looking for attic mounted air handlers images on google) on a flickr photostream 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/engelcox/457257238/in/set-72157600061379481/

It is an interesting installation of turning an attic into a room. When looking at the photo, I was wondering where the furnace part of the unit was, and in reading the description on the photostream, I saw that they installed a new heat pump outside.

Question: If this particular unit did include a high effiency (condensing) furnace; Would there be a second pvc drain line with a p-trap from the furnace, tying into the drain line from the a/c coil (after its p-trap), before it exits the house?


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

bettyRubble said:


> hvactech126 Thanks for the information. Have you ever had an instance where there was a false alarm with the wet switch, since it sits in the bottom of the secondary condensate pan? Such as some other reason that moisture would form in the pan (not from the unit)? If not, then this looks like the way to go since it will shut down the unit without a large amount of water being present. (I don't want to replace the ceiling again!!!)
> 
> I know you are not keen on float switches, but how does the Safe-T-Switch SS1 activate? If the pan is sloped and water runs out its drain, and the Safe-T-Switch is installed inline downstream of the pan; would just a trickle of water set it off or would a larger stream be required to trip the float? Thanks again.


*"The* *Safe-T-Switch® Model SS1* *detects down stream clogs in condensate drains and interrupts the thermostat circuit to shut off the unit before flooding occurs."
*This means that the PVC pipe would have to clog and backup before the unit would shut off. This is still not a good option. The point of the wet switch is so that you don't have hardly if any water standing in the secondary pan. NO water should ever be present even if from another source. 

As far as the pan being sloped.....no mater how it is sloped, it has get high enough in the pan to get over the lip of the drain connection which is usually at least a 1/8" above the bottom of the pan. Also, the drain connections are a known leak point. The secondary pan and drain are a last resort, final defense for saving your ceiling.

I have not seen a wet switch give a false alarm or shut down of a system. There was always water present, so no matter the reason why it shut the system down it always alert the homeowner of an issue whether HVAC related or not. These units are very sensitive. I have seen them trip due to water in the pan from improperly insulated linesets that were sweating and dripped into the pan. I have had them trip due to leaking roofs. The point is, no matter what the reason, there should never be water in the pan.*
*


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

hvactech126 said:


> *"The* *Safe-T-Switch® Model SS1* *detects down stream clogs in condensate drains and interrupts the thermostat circuit to shut off the unit before flooding occurs."*
> This means that the PVC pipe would have to clog and backup before the unit would shut off. This is still not a good option. The point of the wet switch is so that you don't have hardly if any water standing in the secondary pan. NO water should ever be present even if from another source.
> 
> As far as the pan being sloped.....no mater how it is sloped, it has get high enough in the pan to get over the lip of the drain connection which is usually at least a 1/8" above the bottom of the pan. Also, the drain connections are a known leak point. The secondary pan and drain are a last resort, final defense for saving your ceiling.
> ...


"Used switches like that all the time in Government Computer Rooms where the units were counterflow with raised floors where all the main wiring was.
Never any problems or false shutdowns. I would use that along with the secondary emergency drain before I would use the FABULOUS FLOAT SWITCH."


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

Hi ,it seems theres a big debate about what to use in order to fix this paticular problem.Hey guys lets understand that we all have great intentions and the main purpose is to advise this poor lady so that she never has to address a leak catastrophe again.I have seen the end results to this problem many times before.Weve all made are suggestions to her to keep this from happening again.Excuse me kind lady everyone has great ideas and are suggesting whats worked the best for each individual.Everybodys talking from the heart here and only want the best so you dont ever have to deal with this dillema again.My suggestion is this: On the secondary drain on the coil,go ahead and invest in the float switch.It has two wires and thats it.Its a switch that is activated by a rise in water thats in your drain pan.Also go ahead and invest in the moisture sensing switch as well.The cost is way cheaper on both devices than it was to repair your cieling right.Its very simple to wire up and both switches will give you a double protection against this disaster from ever happening again.Your problems solved and all are heros will be happy because you decided to use are suggestion! we are all old timers and love it when a plan comes together and we know were helping someone!Use this method kind lady and Im pretty certain youll be warned before this problem ever happens again.,Shoot we could get will tricky and wire up a relay and have a alarm go off or a light inside the house go off>>>I like playing with power and doing unique things that are cool.Seriously mam in all honesty you use a combo of the safety devices and itll be end of story no cieling repair ever again! Take care and God Bless from all of us!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

hvactech126 said:


> *"The* *Safe-T-Switch® Model SS1* *detects down stream clogs in condensate drains and interrupts the thermostat circuit to shut off the unit before flooding occurs."
> *This means that the PVC pipe would have to clog and backup before the unit would shut off. This is still not a good option. The point of the wet switch is so that you don't have hardly if any water standing in the secondary pan. NO water should ever be present even if from another source.
> 
> As far as the pan being sloped.....no mater how it is sloped, it has get high enough in the pan to get over the lip of the drain connection which is usually at least a 1/8" above the bottom of the pan. Also, the drain connections are a known leak point. The secondary pan and drain are a last resort, final defense for saving your ceiling.
> ...


Thank You hvactech126 This is exactly the information I was looking for! This has helped immensely! I see how the Safe-T-Switch would require a lot of water to flow before tripping. Thanks for the info on the pan and its connection. 

This is the info I was looking for on the wet switch too so far as any type of moisture is an alert that needs to be taken care of. Thanks again!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

COLDIRON said:


> "Used switches like that all the time in Government Computer Rooms where the units were counterflow with raised floors where all the main wiring was.
> Never any problems or false shutdowns. I would use that along with the secondary emergency drain before I would use the FABULOUS FLOAT SWITCH."


Thank you COLDIRON Very Good Information!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

1mastertech said:


> Hi ,it seems theres a big debate about what to use in order to fix this paticular problem.Hey guys lets understand that we all have great intentions and the main purpose is to advise this poor lady so that she never has to address a leak catastrophe again.I have seen the end results to this problem many times before.Weve all made are suggestions to her to keep this from happening again.Excuse me kind lady everyone has great ideas and are suggesting whats worked the best for each individual.Everybodys talking from the heart here and only want the best so you dont ever have to deal with this dillema again.My suggestion is this: On the secondary drain on the coil,go ahead and invest in the float switch.It has two wires and thats it.Its a switch that is activated by a rise in water thats in your drain pan.Also go ahead and invest in the moisture sensing switch as well.The cost is way cheaper on both devices than it was to repair your cieling right.Its very simple to wire up and both switches will give you a double protection against this disaster from ever happening again.Your problems solved and all are heros will be happy because you decided to use are suggestion! we are all old timers and love it when a plan comes together and we know were helping someone!Use this method kind lady and Im pretty certain youll be warned before this problem ever happens again.,Shoot we could get will tricky and wire up a relay and have a alarm go off or a light inside the house go off>>>I like playing with power and doing unique things that are cool.Seriously mam in all honesty you use a combo of the safety devices and itll be end of story no cieling repair ever again! Take care and God Bless from all of us!


Thank You 1mastertech I appreciate everyone's input and detailed information very much. I, of course, want to get my problem fixed, but I am also interested in learning as much as I can to make informed decisions on how I want to proceed. So I appreciate everyone's answers and the time all you give to helping others!


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## bettyRubble (Mar 3, 2011)

Technow said:


> It was in both places, when the furnace isn't sloped right water sits in the back of the secondary and being slightly acidic, it eats thru the gaskets and the metal. That needs to be fixed very quickly, the water from the secondary is now evaporating inside your furnace.


Technow Thank you so much! I knew the condensate was slightly acidic, but did not realize the ramifications on the secondary HX. Thank you for this information.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

bettyRubble said:


> Thank you COLDIRON Very Good Information!


You're welcome betty whatever way you go should be fine now that all the options are yours to choose. Good Luck.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

bettyRubble said:


> Question: If this particular unit did include a high effiency (condensing) furnace; Would there be a second pvc drain line with a p-trap from the furnace, tying into the drain line from the a/c coil (after its p-trap), before it exits the house?


I do believe that the drain for the furnace and the drain from the evaporator coil would be individual so two drain lines. I'm not sure of the code requirements as in I'm not sure if they are allowed to be tied in together or not.

Perhaps someone with more experience with condensing furnaces could help.


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## mastertech (Mar 14, 2011)

bettyRubble said:


> Thank You 1mastertech I appreciate everyone's input and detailed information very much. I, of course, want to get my problem fixed, but I am also interested in learning as much as I can to make informed decisions on how I want to proceed. So I appreciate everyone's answers and the time all you give to helping others!


 
Its my pleasure to help.Its very gratifying.I hope this info helps you make a decision that you feel comfortable and have piece of mind knowing 
everythings all right!:thumbsup:


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