# Cost Difference Between Conduit & Romex



## Shawns4 (Aug 21, 2008)

Hi,

I am having a new custom house built and the contractor currently budgeted in conduit throughout. But he said most of his homes, including his own, he uses Romex. He said if we chose to go with Romex it would save $1,600.00. Our house is about 4,000 sq ft. I read up on Romex online and it seems it is used quite a bit in residential, but that conduit is generally preferred by most. My question is, after reading up on how much is involved with conduit vs how little is involved with Romex, why would the savings be only $1600. Is that a typical price difference between the two?

Thanks,
Shawn


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Good conduit guys get really fast, the wire is a little cheaper and the wire pulls through the conduit quickly.

Around here everything residential is romex. Some other areas require conduit. If conduit is not required I think you'll find Romex turns on the lights just as well as conduit.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

There's really no major advantage to conduit over type NM romex, in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't install concealed wiring in conduit unless local codes (such as Chicago) forced me to. My suggestion is to save yourself $1600 and go with type NM.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

WHile you're in the planning stage, you might ask them to install some conduit for future wire pulls from wherever your panel is to attic or other spots. Always a pain to run a line or two when the walls are covered.
Same for CAT5 or other computer/communication lines.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Shawns4 said:


> I read up on Romex online and it seems it is used quite a bit in residential, but that conduit is generally preferred by most.


Absolutely not. 

In a residential setting, conduit is preferred by the folks who are forced to use it. By this is mean the tightly controlled work force of the Chicago and surrounding areas (as far as I have seen).

NO BODY else uses conduit for the internal branch circuit wiring for home wiring.
NYC used to have a "no NM cable" rule, but even this was relaxed in recent years. Even before that they were at least allowed to use flexible metallic cable.

WHY would he even budget it in in the first place??????

Where are you located?


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

Speedy, Good question. Maybe his NM price is high and he added the conduit price for comparison. "Look, you can save $1,600.00 by using NM instead of conduit!"
bob22 Here, any penetrations between floors have to be filled with fireproof caulk. If you can do it also ask them to leave "drag lines" (string run between floors, tied off at both ends so it doesn't pull into the walls). When you do have a future run, tie the NM to it and pull...
Shawns4 I've never priced a residential job in pipe. It's always been romex. I would like to see it done though. Come to think of it, when I was a helper way back when, we did a job for a guy who was an engineer (not train) for the NYC Transit Authority. His house was done in pipe. He might have had a couple of guys from work do it for him. That probably lowered the materials cost a little.....:wink:


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

I really see no reason not to use conduit if you have the money and do not care about the extra cost. Personally if I were to build my own home it would be in EMT. 
When I was younger and in South Florida (1980's) conduit was required for residential. It was several years later that the NM was allowed, only residential.
Note: Lots off money was saved by installing the conduit in the concrete slab. Most every home in SF. is on a slab. 

When I had an addition put on my house I did it in NM. But if I were to build for myself it would be in EMT conduit. This house is already roped in NM.
With conduit you will almost never have to worry about ripping out sheet rock or ceilings for added capability. You also never have to worry about cable failure. With EMT you just pull out the old and pull in the new. So much more user friendly.
I bet you all of our pros on this site would rather troubleshoot a house with conduit installed than they would with NM.

The key to making conduit your best ally is planning. Make sure you have receptacles or switches everywhere they are needed. Even try to imagine what you might do in the future. You can install the conduit for future upgrades and leave them empty. You must make note of all unused conduit installed and exactly where they are. Then you can do just about anything you want. 

NM cables must be stapled. That makes removal, inspection and repair impossible after construction.

Keep in mind this a strictly a personal opinion and if it were MY house, not yours.


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

Conduit boy here. I have to side with JV on this one. I am forced to use EMT in my jurisdiction but I have really developed a true love for it. In my case, when I started re-wiring my ancient home, I ran a 2x3/4" conduit "back bone" from rear to front of the house in the basement. My initial focus was getting all of the old crap abated and bringing the existing devices/circuits up to code knowing that things would change. As I've been remodeling, the raceway system has provided a means for removing some circuits that are no longer needed and adding new ones as rooms are reconfigured. Keep in mind though, this was all planned upfront so I knew that I wouldn't violate conduit/box fills, etc.

I've always liked the flexibility that a raceway system provides, esp. for future changes.

Jimmy


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## Super33 (May 15, 2008)

I'm a conduit guy too. I would choose conduit over romex in a house 100% of the time. Sure it costs a bit more but it allows much easier work for you in the future when you decide to make changes whether big or small. There is one problem in your situation I can see though, if you live in a land of romex and you hire guys to pipe your house they're probably not very experienced in laying out a house and piping and pulling it in EMT. Hopefully they are and they can do a quality job but if they aren't then it might not be worth while and you might be better off letting them do what they know best.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Like I said, most folks who like conduit better are the ones who are forced to use it. Perfect example above.

If conduit in a stick build home is SO much better, then why has the rest of the country not followed suit over the last 30-40 years???????

Also, please don't try and sell the old "_You don't have to rip out walls to add on or upgrade_" dramatics. The majority of the country's homes have attics, basements and crawl spaces. 
I RARELY have to do ANY damage to run wires in an existing home. 
Besides, how often do you have to "upgrade" or re-wire existing boxes? Almost never in my experience. Most everything we do is adding wiring and devices. Even if you do have to "re-wire" a complete house, there is usually very little existing. The majority of the work is new wiring locations.

If you have a home in Chicago with a first floor and finished second floor, and you need to add some recessed lights in the first floor ceiling, you are going to notch and run cable just like the rest of us. Having everything existing in EMT is NO help in this case, nor many other cases either.


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## wire_twister (Feb 19, 2008)

Agree with Speedy 100% Nothing wrong with romex when done properly. The same rules about planning ahead apply. You dont have to worry about conduit fill but box fill can come into play real quick.


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## Super33 (May 15, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> Like I said, most folks who like conduit better are the ones who are forced to use it. Perfect example above.


I've also romexed houses. And I would still rather pipe a house. Unfortunately most folks who romex houses are never "forced" to use conduit in one so they never get to see the difference. This is a large reason why they would rather not pipe a house. They each have their advantages and disadvantages of course. And because people do get set in their ways romex areas are not likely to change any time soon, and neither is Chicago:whistling2: (hopefully).


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Super33 said:


> And because people do get set in their ways romex areas are not likely to change any time soon,


There's also the little tidbit of bidding a job in conduit against everyone else who is bidding NM. :whistling2:


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## Super33 (May 15, 2008)

I guess that boils down to the preference of the homeowner. I guess all I'm trying to say is IMO:

EMT :yes:
NM :no:


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## micromind (Mar 9, 2008)

When I built my house 12 years ago, I went 1/2 and 1/2. 

The panel is in the wall between the house and garage, so I ran a 3/4 EMT along one outside wall to the far end. Another was ran along the other outside wall. Recpt.'s, switches, etc. were included in these runs. Anything that left the outside walls I ran in NM. 

I also ran a 3/4 EMT to the dryer recpt., then NM to other stuff. Another 3/4 EMT goes to the kitchen area. 

The garage/shop is all EMT, except I used PVC under the slab with rigid stub-ups. 

I ran 3/4 EMT to a recpt. and light in the crawlspace under the house as well as the attic. 

The service is 120/208 3 phase, so using EMT cut back on the number of neutrals. Plus, being in the comm'l/industrial end of the trade for many years, I had plenty of EMT and metal boxes around. 

Even if I would have had to buy everything, I likely would have done it the same way. Especially the homeruns to the laundry and kitchen. 

One thing you need to be careful of when running pipe is de-rating of conductors if there's a bunch of them in the pipe. This is one instance where a 3 phase system has a big advantage. 

Rob

P.S. I have a 18X18X6 can near the panel for data/comm. I ran 3/4 EMT to each of 4 TV/computer/etc. stations, as well as the crawlspace and attic. I stubbed one through the roof for a satellite dish, and a couple outside under the footing.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> If conduit in a stick build home is SO much better, then why has the rest of the country not followed suit over the last 30-40 years???????
> 
> .


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



one of the owners of one of the larger EC firms in my area had his new house done in pipe. It is not required in my area.

Since conduit is required in the '05 and newer codes for any wiring installed in an area subsect to damage, there will be more conduit in basements and possibly attics. I am not so gung ho on conduit in resi but I do hate plastic boxes and would not use them in any house of mine built new. 232 (raco 4" square x 2 1/8) would be used with the appropriate mud rings.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Union influence pushing conduit requirements....

Take Chicago for example. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable case that it is a safety-based requirement.

There's nothing wrong with installing or recommending conduit and metal boxes because it is a tight installation and it looks professional and neat. But there's nothing that makes it so advantageous that it should be _required_ over NM romex and plastic/molded fiberglass boxes in a residential application (other than open areas where protection from physical damage is required).


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## Silk (Feb 8, 2008)

nap said:


> I do hate plastic boxes and would not use them in any house of mine built new. 232 (raco 4" square x 2 1/8) would be used with the appropriate mud rings.


 
I just did build a new house 3 years ago and I did use romex and plastic, and I am an electrician. Metal boxes are a PITA because you have to bond the box also which isn't always very fun on a deep box expecially after the mudrings are on. I don't expect to ever have to pull the wire out of the walls, why would I? If I want to add a rec. here or there, that's pretty easy.

The only places I would use metal boxes is for the low voltage stuff with a stub down into the crawlspace/basement/attic, and a 2 gang with a single gang mudring on some of the light switches in case there was ever to be a fan/light replacing the light in the future (along with 14/3 and a fan rated box of course).

If the plastic screw holes strip out, put a bigger screw in, no big deal at all.

And NO, I have nothing against conduit having worked for years in the industrial side of the industry. It's actually kind of fun running pipe.

So to whoever said earlier that "the pros" would prefer to run conduit in a residential setting, count me out.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

thekctermite said:


> Union influence pushing conduit requirements....
> 
> Take Chicago for example. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable case that it is a safety-based requirement.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with installing or recommending conduit and metal boxes because it is a tight installation and it looks professional and neat. But there's nothing that makes it so advantageous that it should be _required_ over NM romex and plastic/molded fiberglass boxes in a residential application (other than open areas where protection from physical damage is required).


Agree *100%*!

Especially the first part. :whistling2:


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

I totally agree with KC. The conduit requirement is referred to around here as a "union code." While I applaud the strength of the local IBEW (9 and 134), I cannot see a compelling reason to require EMT over rope. One electrician once told me that it was because of rats. Maybe. While this may be more of a reality in the city, where I live we don't have this problem and we're bound by the same requirement. The other day I was removing some part-walls in my basement and I discovered a piece of greenfield that was punctured by a drywall screw. So, you can't really argue that thin wall steel is impervious to punctures either.

The local HD is within the city limits of Chicago and they sell NM. Now I don't see this as a problem but I've had to be the bringer of bad news to a few HO's that I've run into therein who started asking me about installing NM in their Chicago bungalows. You should see their smiles run away when I tell them that they cannot legally use it. Then I'm usually met with much bitterness and a lot of "why this" and "why that" questioning. One guy was so pissed that he practically blamed _me_ for the fact that he couldn't use it! Sheesh!

As I said, I really enjoy working with pipe. Bending all of the offsets, kicks, saddles, etc., is challenging and I get a lot of enjoyment from it. Speedy is probably rolling his eyes at me (I know-I'm a glutton:no. But, I am doing this for my own home only. I do not get paid nor do I have to worry about job costs, margins, schedules (well I _am married_ so I do have to be concerned about that but when I describe the scope to her, I alway add in enough float to allow for smoke breaks!). I just flat out thing that it's fun. Feel free to flame me-I know I deserve it:laughing:!

Take care all,
Jimmy


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

If someone wants to have a ceiling fan with the light and fan switched separately, and the cable run to the ceiling box is 12/2 you have to run another cable.
With conduit you could just push the extra conductor from the switch box to the ceiling box. That is just one example. Just because NM is the norm in most areas, I still like pipe. And like I said before IMO.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Silk said:


> So to whoever said earlier that "the pros" would prefer to run conduit in a residential setting, count me out.


I said troubleshoot not run conduit.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

BigJimmy said:


> One electrician once told me that it was because of rats. Maybe. While this may be more of a reality in the city, where I live we don't have this problem and we're bound by the same requirement.


By "rats", he might have meant non-union or merit shop electricians, not furry rodents. They're commonly referred to as rats by the union outfits, who tend to look down on non-union guys.

Not trying to start a union/non-union argument here, but pipe is often a union thing.


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

thekctermite said:


> By "rats", he might have meant non-union or merit shop electricians, not furry rodents. They're commonly referred to as rats by the union outfits, who tend to look down on non-union guys.
> 
> Not trying to start a union/non-union argument here, but pipe is often a union thing.


Whoops, I should have chosen my words more carefully! No, he was referring to the animals, not the people!

I didn't see your commentary as trying to argue one way or the other. I totally agree w/ your point that the requirement is driven by the strength and influence of the unions. Your input is insightful and welcome, as usual!

Jimmy


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

if it is driven by the union, how do you explain the reverse trend in New York where the unions are notoriously strong?


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Silk said:


> I just did build a new house 3 years ago and I did use romex and plastic, and I am an electrician. Metal boxes are a PITA because you have to bond the box also which isn't always very fun on a deep box expecially after the mudrings are on. I don't expect to ever have to pull the wire out of the walls, why would I? If I want to add a rec. here or there, that's pretty easy.
> 
> The only places I would use metal boxes is for the low voltage stuff with a stub down into the crawlspace/basement/attic, and a 2 gang with a single gang mudring on some of the light switches in case there was ever to be a fan/light replacing the light in the future (along with 14/3 and a fan rated box of course).
> 
> ...


 
I have no trouble with the ground tails in the boxes although I will generally install them before installing the mud ring if they are on the job. As many others have stated, it is a preference. I just don't like plastic boxes although they generally hold up just fine for the average homeowner. Since I do commercial/industrial electrical work for a living, I do tend to get used to one thing over another and that tends to sway me towards commercial style installs.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

nap said:


> if it is driven by the union, how do you explain the reverse trend in New York where the unions are notoriously strong?


Maybe the City is getting some common sense? :whistling2:


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

nap said:


> if it is driven by the union, how do you explain the reverse trend in New York where the unions are notoriously strong?


I cannot, as I live in Chicago. Perhaps they now have some politicians that are rich enough that the kickbacks and vacations don't overrule sound decision making? Geez, listen to what I'm saying!:laughing: Or maybe the politicians are all DIYers?


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## Silk (Feb 8, 2008)

J. V. said:


> I said troubleshoot not run conduit.


 
For the life of me, I can't think of a situation where having a circuit piped in would be easier for me to troubleshoot that a roped circuit. Please enlighten me. Maybe I'm just to good at troubleshooting

P.S. You can't really count any problems in a residence "troubleshooting". 

Troubleshooting is when you get a call at 2 AM because a plant can't deliver product because their product pump won't run. Then you get there, open up the bucket to find their are no prints, run upstairs and open up the old 8' x 8' I/O cabinet full of relays to find that their are no prints and that the old Honeywell cabinet has been completely rewired to work with their new Seimens PLC which also has no prints. All the time the host mill that is waiting for the product from your customer is calling and saying that they will be shuttnig down soon to the tune of 10's of thousand of dollars an hour and having 400 production slouchs laying around *****ing about their lot in life. So your customer is calling corporate headquarters and trying to get an answer out of you as to "how long they can expect to be down" because their contract with the host mill has a huge penalty if they are forced to shut down. ect. ect. ect............

Sorry for the rant, But I'm just trying to put things back into perspective!

fixing someone's 3-way is a walk in the park, whether it be rope or pipe.


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

Silk said:


> Troubleshooting is when you get a call at 2 AM because a plant can't deliver product because their product pump won't run. Then you get there, open up the bucket to find their are no prints, run upstairs and open up the old 8' x 8' I/O cabinet full of relays to find that their are no prints and that the old Honeywell cabinet has been completely rewired to work with their new Seimens PLC which also has no prints. All the time the host mill that is waiting for the product from your customer is calling and saying that they will be shuttnig down soon to the tune of 10's of thousand of dollars an hour and having 400 production slouchs laying around *****ing about their lot in life. So your customer is calling corporate headquarters and trying to get an answer out of you as to "how long they can expect to be down" because their contract with the host mill has a huge penalty if they are forced to shut down. ect. ect. ect.


Ahh, no prints. That's always fun. And all the I/O wiring is all the same color, all the brady's have long since fallen off, etc., etc!

I got called into a JIT manufacturing facility that had an electropainting line down and a bunch of people all sitting around. Lost production was something in the neighborhood of $10K/hr. PLC equipment was installed in a double door cabinet close to the line. The equipment got inadvertently washed down when a hose burst and sprayed caustic cleaning solution all over the card file. Of course this wouldn't have been an issue if the doors to the sealed cabinet had been shut. But some moron in his infinite wisdom added a touch screen HMI and decided that it'd be a good idea to put inside the cabinet so that the door always had to be open while they were operating. 

The entire PLC is dark and I find a tripped breaker which I reset. The PLC comes back to life and falls back into the RUN mode after booting up. For GP, I shut it down and pull, inspect and clean all of the cards. After re-powering the controller, I ask the instrument tech how to start the line which he tries to do with no sucess. I notice an illuminated light on the panel that has the words "start interlock" written above it in marker. So I point this out and ask him what conditions are required to start the machine, assuming that something is locking us out. "Hmmm, I don't know. We've never had this problem" he says. Of course, no prints. It's an A/B PLC-5 and anyone who has worked with them knows that the program comments, symbols, etc., are not stored in the CPU. So, I ask him if he has the software and he tells me that the only copy is on the manager's laptop which is not available since he's on vacation (great software control, BTW). So, I plug in my laptop and start looking at the bare ladder file. After a little hunting around, I notice one particular internal bit that seems to be ANDed with just about every rung (looking like a MCR or similar safety check). I trace it to one particular input which has a wire tagged with a piece of yellow electrical tape that reads "safety." Looking over the line, I notice some E-stops and pull-cords. I take a walk, pulling on all the mushroom heads until one pops out which prompts a horn blast and a series of revolving yellow lights.

The plant supervisor got pretty red in the face when I told him that, except for a tripped circuit breaker (the technician couldn't even find that one), the only problem was that someone had pressed an emergency-stop button when the chaos erupted.

Fun, fun, fun,
Jimmy


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## Silk (Feb 8, 2008)

Instrument Techs, yeah right, we always called them "chart changers". Remember when all they did was run around and change all those round charts? 

We has a guy one time who loved the call-in's, so he used to set up the AB 3-family PLC on a timer to shut the line down and call him in when he needed some extra money. He got so bold in the end that he would sit in the guard shack after work BSing with the guards until his pager went off so he could get his 4 hours call-in pay for 5 minutes work. It worked great for a few years until there was an EE who was an electrician before he got his engineering degree so he actually had a clue. He was still there when the line went down so he started snooping in the logic and found what the electrician was up to. The EE was a good guy and talked to the electrician personally and kept the company out of it so he never got fired -------- but the call-ins sure went down after that:whistling2:

Oh, and by the way, good catch on the E-stop. That's always the way isn't it, I always overlook the easiest things first. The worst mistake is to listen to the operators and try to troubleshoot from their scenario because usually it was something they did and they try to cover their a** by sending you in the wrong direction.


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## Silk (Feb 8, 2008)

Forgive me for my ignorance but a few of the posters have said they would run EMT throughout their house. I hve seen lots of houses run in Greenfield but never EMT. How would that work? Does it all have to be run in 16 inch chunks so you can go horizontally through the studs, just kidding. But really, is it stubbed up from a basement/crawlspace at each receptacle?


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## BigJimmy (Jun 30, 2006)

Silk said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance but a few of the posters have said they would run EMT throughout their house. I hve seen lots of houses run in Greenfield but never EMT. How would that work? Does it all have to be run in 16 inch chunks so you can go horizontally through the studs, just kidding. But really, is it stubbed up from a basement/crawlspace at each receptacle?


I've seen a lot of construction lately where the builders use engineered joists between 1st and second floors that consist of angled braces run between top/bottom chords with nailing plates at the connections. These are nice because they allow free routing of mechanical, plumbing and electrical systems, both parallel and perpendicular to the joists w/o needing to cut through them.

I've installed some thinwall horizontally through 16"o.c. stud walls. When you're using 1/2" EMT, it's pretty forgiving and you can bend it/horse it through the holes. Inside corners are another story. I've seen people use Greenfield to make this transition or in other cases, rise vertically from the last device box on the wall up through the top plate and then run over to the perpendicular wall and down. Again, this was in instances where dimensional lumber was not being used.

In my house, when I gutted my living room, I wanted to fur the walls out to achieve a 2x6 cavity for insulation purposes. I simply ran my EMT flush to the existing stud faces and then notched the furring (2x3's) to allow the conduit to run beneath it. The tricky part was the inside corners. You have to extend the 90d bend into the adjacent wall's stud space and then offset back to the stud plane so that the bend does not interfere with the drywall. I've got some pictures I can post if you like (now that I think of it, I did post them about 6-8 months ago on a thread that was asking what to do with pipe at an inside corner).


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Silk said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance but a few of the posters have said they would run EMT throughout their house. I hve seen lots of houses run in Greenfield but never EMT. How would that work? Does it all have to be run in 16 inch chunks so you can go horizontally through the studs, just kidding. But really, is it stubbed up from a basement/crawlspace at each receptacle?


 
If you are there at the right time, you can run the emt from the end of the wall. Once they put the sheathing up, it's too late to do it that way on the outside walls.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

nap said:


> If you are there at the right time, you can run the emt from the end of the wall. Once they put the sheathing up, it's too late to do it that way on the outside walls.


Very true. Framing practices vary regionally though, so it isn't always possible. In this area the walls are sheathed while laying down instead of hanging the sheathing once the frame is built, and sparky is never on site while framing is going on.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Silk said:


> fixing someone's 3-way is a walk in the park, whether it be rope or pipe.


Maybe for you. I would rather stay out of the attic if possible. Beside's, I never mentioned a three way. I commented on changing a cable from 12/2 to 12/3. Cable replacement is not needed with conduit. Thats all I meant to say.
It's a personal preference issue. Thats it.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> I do hate plastic boxes and would not use them in any house of mine built new


Plastic boxes ROCK. They are INSULATED with ZERO chance of a short circuit.


I would charge a HELL of a lot more than $1600 more to pipe a 4K house.

I have built several houses and never even considered conduit. I do however run quite a bit of *extra* 3 wire cable, especially for switch legs.


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## petey_c (Jul 25, 2008)

220/221, The EC that Shawns4 is taking about said he'd _save_ $1600 by using NM instead of conduit, not that he'd do the job for that much... pete


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

Silk said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance but a few of the posters have said they would run EMT throughout their house. I hve seen lots of houses run in Greenfield but never EMT. How would that work? Does it all have to be run in 16 inch chunks so you can go horizontally through the studs, just kidding. But really, is it stubbed up from a basement/crawlspace at each receptacle?


Horizontal runs of EMT are the hardest part. In single level dwellings I always go up, over and down, never horizontally for boxes. More pipe and more wire, but fast as heck.
Notching is the way to go with horizontal runs and there is no need for nail guards. I use regular 1900 boxes and support them with a 16" piece of 2x4. :thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> I would charge a HELL of a lot more than $1600 *more* to pipe a 4K house.


 
Not very well written but yeah, I know.

I should have said .............I don't know......something different than more.....more.:jester: *Extra* perhaps?

I would charge a HELL of a lot more than $1600 *extra* to pipe a 4K house.:thumbup:


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