# Mounting Sillcocks



## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Usually, hose bibs are run through the rim or bands. Use a siding block. Many types available. You can go closer to corners keep one bay space or approx 16" away.

Insulate pipe from freezing and put in another shut off in the conditioned part of your basement. I would try and angle the pipe down to the outside to drain the pipe.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The way your suggesting to do it would be a nightmare to do, Moving them up into the wall cavity will require opening up the wall, removing some siding, adding siding blocks, having a bunch of patched up holes where it used to be, anytime one needs to be replaced again the wall would have to be opened up again unless you added an ugly access panel in the wall.
That short extension and a valve mounted to the post is the way to go.
PS, PVC should not be used inside a home for pressure lines.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Don't use PVC its not approved for indoor use in 35 states. Use copper cpvc or pex.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Ghostmaker said:


> Don't use PVC its not approved for indoor use in 35 states. Use copper cpvc or pex.


I'm using CPVC, sorry if I didn't clarify. Not a PEX fan, sorry if that offends anyone's religion. I decided just to leave the sillcocks in the foundation slab, just move them as high as possible (about 3" from the top) and closer to the corners. I checked from the inside to make sure I would not run into any clearance issues with the new location and drilled 1" masonry bit. I had to open the holes up slightly afterwards by wiggling the bit (interesting the manufacturer put a larger nut end on requiring this). Which leaves me with the following questions:

1. What do I use to seal the hole around the sillcock? Great Stuff or something like Concrete adhesive?

2. What do I use to seal the old holes permanently? One of them is significantly larger than the 1" necessary, I think someone made an oops.

3. What do you think of this concept drawing? I already have the holes drilled for new sillcocks on a slight downward angle but I would like to raise the overall height of CPVC piping as high as possible within the crawlspace. Pink is straight 3/4 CPVC, blue is fittings (elbows etc) how they slip over. In this configuration, I am able to retain a downward slope away from the sillcock to drain it, yet also keep the rest of the CPVC as tight to the joists as possible to save my knees and back. The plan would be to turn on the sillcocks, then shut off the water supply at the existing shutoffs, then put a bucket under the open end of "new valve" and open it, draining what is left between sillcock and shutoff valve. The drawing is not nearly to scale, I suck at computers. There is approximately 12" beneath the open end of the drain and ground, enough for a standard pale. I could then mount the CPVC securely to the joists with the plastic U shaped retainers every 3 joists or so. I could get really fancy and use my right angle drill and 1" hole saw or bit and drill the joists and run the CVPC through them, but I'm not sure I like the idea of weakening one of the most key structural pieces in a house built in 1955 - and I probably triple my total project time. Since the joists would still be there, that would only buy me 3/4" more head room (thickness of CPVC). 

i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/cjr2003firefly2/new/Untitled.png

could someone please post that as an image, I can't post links until 5 posts. Crawlspace access is by 2x2 floor cut-out, and unfortunately is very, very far away from all plumbing. So getting down there once a year is mandatory, which is why I'm cleaning out bigtime.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If frost / freeze proof cocks are being installed I can't see the purpose of installing them as pictured.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Fairview said:


> If frost / freeze proof cocks are being installed I can't see the purpose of installing them as pictured.


Every remotely technical installation I have seen suggests the hole through the foundation needs to be drilled at a downward slope (high point exterior, low point interior) to drain the sillcock after you close the shut off valve for winter. Nowhere does it suggest an angle but I went with 2.00 degrees on my digital angle gauge because I remembered gutters are installed with a similar target and they flow like a river that way.

As you can see in the picture, I have about 30 inches in most places in my crawlspace, leaving me somewhere between belly crawl and normal hands and knees in most places at my height (providing no plumbing is there). As the piping is currently installed, level to maintain the ability of the sillcock to drain, that takes away another 12" or so in some places and makes for

1. incredibly ugly and unprofessional, loose installation
2. me on full belly army crawl, my life a complete hell instead of only partial hell.

The goal of the picture is to allow me to mount the CPVC tubing securely in case it gets bumped while I'm down there to the joists and as high as possible while still allowing me to drain the sillcock (even level, I think most of the distance of about 10' from the main existing shutoff to my new drain should flow out as well, though I could slope it very slightly). Realistically based on where the existing sillcock shut off valves are now, I'm going to have to go down there once every year to turn them on and once to turn them off anyway.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

If these are frost free hose bibs, your angle is the wrong direction. They are designed to be self draining when you turn them off.
Do you have another valve on the line to stop the water supply to the hose bib?

You may already addressed this, but why drill the concrete and not the rim joist?
Anchoring the bib in concrete is not easy.

For the old holes, I'd use spray foam- fill the back third of the hole with foam, then use a concrete product like "water plug" to cap off the rest of the hole.

Also, wrap the copper hose bib with a good layer of protective tape so it does not contact the concrete.

Here is your original image


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

A frost free bib will drain when level or even slightly up. They do not need to drip dry to prevent breaking in freezing temperatures. If angled, slightly down would be my choice.

I'm not seeing the purpose of re - entering the crawl space twice annually or having the drain valve pictured.

Install them with 3-4 wraps of Teflon tape so they can be easily removed in the future if need be without going into the crawl. I never liked those spaces either.

If screwing into female plastic fittings, remember with taped threads female fittings can be cracked so caution is advised on torque. I don't use them anymore unless absolutely necessary, but if I must they get a stainless worm screw clamp for backup unless they are schedule xxx heavy as fittings are on some well pressure tanks.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

TheEplumber said:


> If these are frost free hose bibs, your angle is the wrong direction. They are designed to be self draining when you turn them off.
> Do you have another valve on the line to stop the water supply to the hose bib?
> 
> You may already addressed this, but why drill the concrete and not the rim joist?
> ...


Thanks for the image. Where I got confused is "mounted slightly up" or slightly down. That depends on which orientation you are viewing. In the picture I think it's too light to see but to the far left of the pink the existing shut off is (one per sillcock).

Rim joist? Is this the first big piece of wood that sits directly on the concrete block foundation (the sill)? Do I have those terms right? If so, that's because (1) it's sided and (2) I have poor access to that area from crawlspace as compared to the concrete block sill area.

I secured the sillcocks with two tap-con screws of 3" length. I fabricated an aluminum plate that the sillcock mounts to of 3/16" thickness so the two tap cons are about 6" apart. Part of wanting to do the entire sillcock replacement and relocation was really poor existing mounting (loose).

Being that I already have the holes drilled due to my mis-interpretation of angles, are there going to be any PROBLEMS with how I have the CPVC planned (not installed yet). I wonder if I pull the sillcock out and slot the hole if I could tilt them the opposite way?

Water plug?

albionconcrete.co.uk/construction-chemicals/water-leak-plug.html


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Still can't post pictures even at 5 posts. 

Here is an edited version of the sillcock mounting (if I can slot the hole and tilt it). Again, the goal is to keep the long spans of line as tight and neat up on the joists as possible to give me crawl room. So at end of season I would go into crawl space, shut off shut off valves, pack up hoses and leave sillcocks in open position, draining sillcock and tube between sillcock and shutoff valve?

i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/cjr2003firefly2/new/Untitled-1.png

What is an optimal angle to shoot for? Is my 2.00 good or should I go steeper? For clarification, the hose attaching end of the sillcock should be lower? If expandable foam is good for the first part of plugging old holes, is it also acceptable for sealing around the shaft of the new sillcock being installed (that's how it is on house now)?


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Is this an acceptable alternative to water plug? I am looking for a fast-setting concrete repair mortar? This is locally available to me. Any special instructions or pro install suggestions other than what comes on the box/barrel? I am assuming that since this is above grade, repairs to holes are more of a heat loss/outside aesthetics/animal intrusion issue than a structural or water intrusion issue like they would be below grade?

homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-20-lb-Fast-Set-Repair-Mortar-124120/100318469


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

My response in bold type


95PGTTech said:


> Thanks for the image. Where I got confused is "mounted slightly up" or slightly down. That depends on which orientation you are viewing. In the picture I think it's too light to see but to the far left of the pink the existing shut off is (one per sillcock).*I didn't see that :thumbsup:*
> 
> Rim joist? Is this the first big piece of wood that sits directly on the concrete block foundation (the sill)? Do I have those terms right? If so, that's because (1) it's sided and (2) I have poor access to that area from crawlspace as compared to the concrete block sill area.*Going from the bottom up is the block, sitting on that is the sill plate, followed with the rim joist-it forms the rim of the floor*
> 
> ...


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Trying to do the picture as an attachment. This is my revised idea to finish up tomorrow.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Well now that I can finally get pictures up, here's one of the plates I made in case anyone wants to copy them. 3/16" aluminum plate I had sitting around, used the gasket that comes with the sillcock as a template to drill with a hole saw the center hole and used 1/4" self tapping screws to mount to the plate. 1/4" drill bit made holes for the tapcons. I think I have 1/2 hour into each by the time I deburr them, I bill fabrication at $80/hr. These retail for about 18 each plus shipping online but I needed them NOW. I took a few minutes to figure out what I wanted the perimeter of the plate to look like and saw some 2 bolt exhaust flange gaskets sitting around and...bam...

Plenty of ways you can fancy this up if you like. Change the plate shape, have it water jet cut or CNC, powdercoat it. Instead of self-tappers phsycially tap the plate and use stainless allen-headed bolts, etc. If for some reason you felt you needed really secure mounting, could also just use 4 tapcons.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks in large part to the advice of the members of this forum, I completed installation of the first of three sillcocks on my home. For this one, I chose to go with the 4 Tapcons. One of the two outer ones hit what I guess was a hollow part of the block and I was not satisfied with how tight the plate was to the face of the block. I have 2 degrees of downward slope AWAY from the house.

At first, I feared that part of the pipe actually travels upward before the downward slope begins and an air bubble may form in this high spot. After testing, this seems to be not an issue. I have a feeling that just like brake lines, once bled, the pressure forced the air pocket out. My OCD self actually measured the distance between the long span and the wall to ensure it was perfectly straight while securing it. The only thing I'd like to do left at this point is to find something to secure the shorter section that runs alongside the bottom of the joist.

Thank you to everyone who had input on my first big project on my new home, after a leak test I actually have a working hose now. Only two to go!


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Thread update: 2/3 done!

The honey-do list never seems to end and other, more important projects have called for my attention throughout the summer. With school only a week away, we have been in "wrap up" mode. While in the crawlspace my wife and I knocked out #2 today, much easier after doing the learning process on the first one.



In the interest of keeping everything as head room as possible we ran this one close to the perimeter of the home. We did not move the original location of the shutoff valve (about 10' inboard of the foundation) so I do not have much fear of freezing.

We did make some small edits to plumbing connected to the hose supplies to pull it up as well but decided not to go too crazy right now (we're supposed to be wrapping up, not starting new projects). The downstairs bathroom that is responsible for most of the hideous plumbing in this area of the crawlspace is a gut job so I will wait for that time to finish tidying the rest up.







Sillcock #3, the final one, is located in the front wall of the foundation near the flower gardens on either side of the front porch (which are above grade and retain water on the concrete blocks and need to go). What we didn't realize from viewing it outside (broken) is that it has no existing plumbing to it and hasn't in some time. It's roughly 20' from the nearest cold water supply, so this one will get tabled for quite some time. As it is, we haven't even hooked a hose up to #2 and have no plans to do so.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Most important part. Disconnect all hoses before it gets cold outside.

You should also have ball valves on each sillcock for future servicing.


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Ghostmaker said:


> Most important part. Disconnect all hoses before it gets cold outside.
> 
> You should also have ball valves on each sillcock for future servicing.


I was told to open the sillcocks after shutting the ball valves to let the 15' or so section I have between them drain. Ball valves are installed on each of the two as pictured at a distance inboard of the house that I thought frost would not be an issue.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Does your crawl space get below freezing?


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## 95PGTTech (Jun 24, 2014)

Ghostmaker said:


> Does your crawl space get below freezing?


I haven't had a winter here yet, but solely based on what temps I have felt down there so far (with here ranging from 60-100 outdoors) I seriously doubt it. Not much I can do if it does, there is a ton of plumbing down there.


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