# Lenovo R60 throwing memory errors, is it done for?



## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Hello,

I have a 10 year old lenovo thinkpad R60 with discrete graphics, core 2 duo.

It locks up, sometimes right away, sometimes after a few minutes and the screen get very pixilated, has lines going through.

Sometimes it throws a memory parity error, blue screen of death.

I have....

1. Tried different known working ram
2. Removed the cpu/video card cooler, cleaned reinstalled with new thermal paste
3. Removed hard drive, modem card, wireless network card, dvd drive to rule them out. *It won't boot like this, but the bios/splash screen is pixillated, doesn't look right.
4. Clear cmos
* 4. Tightened all connections including the monitor connection.

Same problem. Weird stuff on the screen upon boot, lockup -> monitor turns all white and gets pixellated.


I suspect it's the graphics card, but it appears to be soldiered into the board and not replaceable. 

I haven seen any video memory chips - they could be hidden under something, there is a chip casing with a ati chip at the center and four medium sized chips at each corner.

I would hate to get rid of this machine; it's been super reliable, 4:3 15" screen - great for documents.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Memory is typically under the keyboard on those older guys. Else they are on the bottom or directly mounted to the mobo. 

It sounds like the north bridge is dead. It's time for a new computer. 

You can try out a hardware testing software. You'll need to burn them to a CD/dvd and boot from them. Hiren and UBD are the older ones. I'll have to look up the Hiren successor, but it's win10 based so you probably won't need it. Run the standard memtest+ then run a cpu test. Yours will likely fail on both. Memory failures will typically fail in the exact same spots. Mobo issues will cause memory failures in random locations. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

thanks.

I ran the windows memory diagnostic and that came back clean.

hiren's boot CD i've used to editing registry/recovery before -> what else can it do?

never saw a cpu test on there. i know the cpu's rarely fail and it's usually the board or something else which may show up as a cpu problem.

On this machine the ram is under the palm-rest and everything else is accessed by removing the keyboard. There's some black thin material covering parts of the board but doubt there's anything i can replace underneath. 

Thing is, it started out of the blue; it run perfectly before.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

We had T61s in an office I worked in 10 years ago. A director in the company referred to them as "Those T61 pieces of $h!t." They didn't last long in the company, maybe three years and all of them were gone. Hence, I think you've been lucky and would be downloading my data to an external drive and looking for a new machine.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

stick\shift said:


> We had T61s in an office I worked in 10 years ago. A director in the company referred to them as "Those T61 pieces of $h!t." They didn't last long in the company, maybe three years and all of them were gone. Hence, I think you've been lucky and would be downloading my data to an external drive and looking for a new machine.


That model with discreet graphics had some video issues. 

Otherwise the older thinkpads were some of the best laptops ever built.

I replaced the hard drive once, the hinges, the fan, keyboard at different points.

I'll get something similar used if it can't be salvaged or go without - or maybe get a used system board off ebay; wasn't only machine, otherwise wouldn't be posting here. No money to burn on luxuries like new computers. (and they suck anyway- the build quality is terrible)


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> the older thinkpads were some of the best laptops ever built


I agree, right up until the point they became Lenovo thinkpads instead of IBM thinkpads. At least that's when we saw the ones we bought go downhill.... I had a T43 which was used when they gave it to me which was still going strong when I left the company and all the newer T61s had long since been replaced.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

I suspect your office got a bad batch, because while the quality may have declined slightly at that point, they should have lasted longer than 3 years. were still better built than most.

These days the quality of everything has gone down and a business grade lenovo will still be better than a consumer pos, but not good compared to what they produced before.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Does anyone know where to find the model number on the motherboard of these?

I've seen them on ebay but it has to be a perfect match.

Call me crazy, i don't like throwing things away.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> Does anyone know where to find the model number on the motherboard of these?
> 
> I've seen them on ebay but it has to be a perfect match.
> 
> Call me crazy, i don't like throwing things away.


You order them by the laptop model number. Not the T61, but the number on the back that'll be 5 -10 digits long. 

At my previous employ, we sold thousands of those guys. (off lease.) Nearly every lower end model of the ThinkPad actually. They are work horses, as long as they are not swamped with greyware. (They are typically only meant for light office work.) 

I'll get some screen shots of what to do with the disk. It'll take a bit though. 

PS. The windows memory checker is next to useless. It only fails when the ram is completely pouched. It'll often miss transients. https://www.memtest86.com will pick them up. (v4 and v7free is more then enough.) 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

thanks.

it's looking pretty bad.

It fails before being able to boot the cd.

If I look online, the boards have a part number and don't seem to list machine type.

For example, "s478, 42T5525, 43Y9131" for the boards.

the machine number on the back is 9462-cto. there's a serial number and product id too.

When i ordered hinges before, i just used the number directly off the hinges.
 
At this point, even if i can get a replacement board for little money on ebay, it's probably not worth it considering having to tear it down completely and the material condition of the machine.

The battery won't charge any more and the screen isn't nearly as bright as it used to be.



> At my previous employ, we sold thousands of those guys. (off lease.) Nearly every lower end model of the ThinkPad actually. They are work horses, as long as they are not swamped with greyware. (They are typically only meant for light office work.)


ah, i take it you did IT/computer work before taking up hvac?


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> ah, i take it you did IT/computer work before taking up hvac?


Yes. Started with building computers for a hobby..... (my first computer didn't have a hard drive BTW.) Went on to make money doing it, then on to networking, and then programming..... That was when I realized that I didn't like sitting at a desk all day. That, and trying to be the best of the best was way too exhausting. Now I'm commissioning a unit that'll take a few weeks to finish the startup. It's more interesting and different day to day. 

Anyways, here are some screen shots from Hiren's boot CD. It's an older utility, but it'll work for you. You can either use a notable USB flash drive or use the emergency eject on your cd drive so that you can put the CD in. (use a pin or needle in the very small hole on the cover. You'll need to push the lever inside.) 

Main boot menu. Note memtest86+
http://www.hirensbootcd.org/images/screenshots/dos-01-bootmenu.png

Screen shot of memtest. This is a fairly rigorous memory subsystem test. Failing ram typically will fail in the exact same spots. Failing cpu or motherboard will be in random spots that keep changing. 
http://cdn.ilovefreesoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Hiren-BootCD-memtest.jpg

The newer version also uses a windows based menu and programs. 

http://www.hirensbootcd.org


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks.

I'm guessing your first machine you built was from the late 1970s or early 80s -> like an 8086 or something, never seen something newer without a disk.

Anyhow..

It won't boot hiren's cd, it locks up before that. and it's not the ram because i put known working ram in it.

likely something failed on the board such as the video adapter.

I think i'm going to give up on it, because while I could change the board, the battery is dead and the screen is probably half as bright as it used to be from use so ready to go -> setting myself up for more expensive repairs with ebay parts.

Laptops are good until something breaks; then it's a pain, having to get proprietary parts. i think only the hard drive and ram are generic.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm guessing your first machine you built was from the late 1970s or early 80s -> like an 8086 or something, never seen something newer without a disk.
> 
> ...


Mobo is definitely toast. Laptops are generally disposable. Just a few "upgradable" parts. 

PS. It was a Tandy. I'm not that old, lol. Hard drives were available but too expensive. 



Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Can get parts and fix, just not worth it. I changed the hinges, cpu cooler, keyboard, ram all at a very low cost.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

...but the monitor or board, different story.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> Can get parts and fix, just not worth it. I changed the hinges, cpu cooler, keyboard, ram all at a very low cost.


Pretty much all that you can change, except the battery and optical drive. (theoretically you can change some of the cpu's but it's not worth it.) 

I guess the hinges stopped holding the screen upright? That's usually the case because generally when they break it's actually the plastic clam shell that breaks instead. It's next to impossible to get a decently looking replacement, as none of the oem's supply them at all. 

I've repaired thousands of them. I stayed away from mobo replacements but at the end we had a guy who would fix small things like broken connectors and cracked solder joints. The whole bill usually ended up being more then the cheaper laptops out there, so it was rare that people went for it. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

The metal of the hinges actually broke from usage, the plastic case got a little damaged and i had to repair the parts where you screw the hinges/monitor into it.

used oem parts.

open/close it and the case gets pushed open by the broken hinge.

Replaced hard drive before that.

Can change the board but than i would have to change the monitor and battery a year later. then another part like the optical drive could fail.

it owes me nothing.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Interesting. I've only seen a couple hinges break over all these years. It's almost always the plastic. The screens are really easy to replace. We were down to less than 10 min/laptop when we rushed. 

Either way, I'd totally agree with you. It's not worth fixing. 

I abandoned my last laptop even though it was still quite functional. I had worn through the second hard drive, 3rd battery, 2nd charger, screen back light wasn't great anymore, and worn the paint clean off where my wrists rest. It was at the end of its time. I think it was about 4-5 years old by then. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

it was opened and closed a lot; several times a day.

after they broke, i just left it open.

10 years of heavy use is pretty good but board failures are rare.

I've done computer stuff for myself and family and over 16 years and i've only seen three boards fail including this one, all post 2004.

I suspect it could be the lead-free soldier used in newer stuff; i read it develops whiskers and cracks more easily.

Before lead-free soldier and bad capacitors they were nearly bullet-proof.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

*that is, after hinges were replaced, left it open.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Don't forget that they are also raising the acceptable component temps, without any significant improvement in the components themselves. 

Generally silicon chips have a mean life expectancy of over 125 years when temps are kept below 40*C. At 60*C yours at a fraction of that. At 90-100*C you're starting to fall below 4 years. The rise in temps is mostly to save money and weight on heat sinks, and to keep noise pollution down. You can also get more performance at the cost of life expectancy. 

Laptops are historically terrible for this. Some laptops have been measured at over +70*C at various spots on the keyboard and bottom as a minimum temp. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

What is it, like lifespan halved for every 10*C rise or something?

All I know is they're making laptops thinner and thinner; the new ones must run really hot. 

silly design - anything that sells.

It's like how in a lot of new stoves they stick the control module right above the oven so it gets the heat from the oven and fails. and it's a $400 part which probably cost $50 to make and ship.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Here a good post on the reasons electronic chips fail: (warning, it's a bit dry unless you're a geek.) 


Post#4
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/...7nh99oqpvk9i4&topic=24081.msg262132#msg262132

Cheers!


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