# ATF Never changed in 135K Miles - Leave or Change it?



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'd have someone change the filter and the fluid!
Have to drop the pan anyway to change the fliud so why not change the filter right in front of them.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

I had my transmission fluid changed the other day. I have had the vehicle for 8+ years and have driven it about 150000 miles. I had noticed that the shifting was getting erratic and the mechanic suggested the fluid change. Without noticing any problem, I would probably not changed it ever.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

Changing the fluid will not harm the trans. Most horror stories you hear are people that are already having shifting issues and then it completely goes out shortly after changing the fluid so they blame the fluid change. If there is nothing wrong with the trans it will not hurt it. If you have a shifting problem changing the fluid seldom fixes it.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Awesome, thanks guys, I'll make sure to have them change the ATF and the filter. I just didn't want them doing it until I had a better idea of whether or not it would hurt the trans, and considering that their auto transmission shifts wonderfully I'm assuming the fluid change most probably won't hurt it and will likely help the transmission long term. 

Thanks again! Much appreciated


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## funfool (Oct 5, 2012)

I would say yes to fluid and filter. This will leave some old fluid in the tranny.
Lets pretend your tranny holds 9 quarts. dropping the pan will remove 6 quarts and still be 3 old quarts in tranny. 
To cure this, they may suggest a tranny flush. They will hook up some kind of machine and pump new fluid through it until it is all fresh fluid.

It is the flush that disturbs loose dirt and debris, metal shavings and such. It is these that get a flush on high mileage vehicles that end up with transmission problems shortly after.

On the other hand, just dropping the pan and changing the fluid that comes out and the filter, I have not heard of others having problems.

I just wanted to point the difference out, a flush will be an up sell and more money and commission to the salesman. Avoid the flush and just go for a change.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Another poster already somewhat debunked the myth on transmitions going out after a fluid change. Complete myth. I am sure there are many that have but, as an earlier poster surmised, the trans was probably on its way out anyway. 

Most auto repair shops are not equipped to do a full fluid chjange on trans'. Dropping the pan will only get about 4 wuarts out of the system. Pro trans shops have methods of flushing the system to do a complete change. There are some auto trans' out there that hold upward of 10 quarts.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

The myth is the same with flushes they will get a more complete fluid change. Flush machines use the trans pump to move the fluid through the trans filter. If there is metal shavings and a lot of debris to get loosened up them the trans is already damaged.


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

Their are different types of flush machines. I personally would never do a flush on anything. No offense but I am not a big fan of those Oddesseys. They are known for their tranny problems. The fluid may actually be rated for 100,000 miles. You may not even have a filter to change. You will be fine to change the filter and pan gasket. Make sure the place you take it is using the proper fluid and not trying to cheap out on you. Their is a long list of never to do things when changing the fluid but a shop should know the list.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Change it.

The BG flush is the best of the bunch. It is pressure controlled and does not loosen anything that is not already circulating in most cases.


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## 64pvolvo1800 (Jan 14, 2013)

Make certain that they use the correct fluid. J3309 if I'm not mistaken. Flush using tranny pump is best and second would be a single change followed by another in 5000. Alternately, you can simply drain what you can from the oil cooler on the radiator and replenish what you take out. Do this seven or eight times with driving in between and/or until you see the fluid coming out pink as new.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

pan should have been dropped a long time ago and transmission fluid changed. Any oil change place offers the service.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

So glad to see everyone debunking the ATF change myth. Thought we'd get at least a couple superstitious natives in this thread


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Talk about a mess! I cracked open the pan on a 91 Olds with 160k and ATF went everywhere. The pan was gooey. The fluid had never been changed. I cleaned the pan, changed the filter, replaced the fluid and it worked great. 

I wili be changing the fluid and filter on my 95 Villager when it warms up here. At least the Villager has a tranny drain plug.


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## noquacks (Jun 5, 2010)

Beware- "dropping the pan" for a trans fluid change on a Honda- I believe Hondas do not drop their pan, but have a 3/8" socket hole/drain plug, unlwess pre 2001 was different. Also, Hondas are notorious for not being able to vchange out filter as unlike Chryslers, etc, they do NOT have a filter (early 2000's, etc, not 100% sure about pre 2000). Their filter is burried deep in the tranny itself, making changing one impossible. 

Thats why so many of them fail, as once they get plugged with goo, they starve the clutches of fluid.

Also, never heard of "old fluid being good" for a tranny. Bogus info. A AT needs fluid changed every 3 yrs.In Florida/Arizona, every 12-18 months! Its no way like a MT where one can go 10 years without new oil change......


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

I have read a fair amount on those Honda trans missions. As noquacks has pointed out those transmissions are not without problems. The filter clogging is actually not the problem with those trannys. The problem is they are just complete junk. People have redone those trannys every way possible, external filters, coolers and all, and they are still just complete junk. Sorry Honda, I got out from under my Honda before the tranny went.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Definately change the fluid and filter. 135k miles isn't much at all. 

How often are you supposed to change the fluid and filter in an automatic? (I only drive stick).


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## msmith5554 (Apr 13, 2012)

If you guys are gonna respond to someone asking a question. Know what your talking about. That trans does not have a serviceable filter. All you should do is a drain and fill. Use only Honda fluid. And NEVER NEVER use a flush machine. It will take exactly 2 1/2 qts to refill once you drain it and then do it every 30 k after that.


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## msmith5554 (Apr 13, 2012)

Mj12. The transmissions were really bad in the accords from 1998 to 2002. Not all were bad. But they sure had there problems with the accords. ( more so v6 ). And the odyssey In that yr range. Most all others were really bullet proof


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

I had a 2001 civic it seemed it was the 2001 that was the biggest problem in the bunch. I checked all over the country and many many 2001 civic were for sale with bad transmissions. But I found many with over 200,000 miles. I had a lot of Honda people test drive the car and a very knowledgeable guy drove it down the road and said, sell this car the tranny is going to dump. He said it was shifting in a way he knew it was going to dump. My hondas from the 70-90;s were bullet proof, it is too bad really.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

the 4r100 in my 7.3 diesel went over 300k miles without any fluid change, no issues.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> the 4r100 in my 7.3 diesel went over 300k miles without any fluid change, no issues.


My 2000 Buick Lesabre was traded in with 270k and never had the fluid changed. I bought it new, so I know it was never changed. No issues. A mechanic once told me that if the car is not towing trailers, not abused, and the fluid is not discolored or smell, then the fluid never needs replacing.


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## sam floor (Jun 27, 2009)

polarzak said:


> My 2000 Buick Lesabre was traded in with 270k and never had the fluid changed. I bought it new, so I know it was never changed. No issues. A mechanic once told me that if the car is not towing trailers, not abused, and the fluid is not discolored or smell, then the fluid never needs replacing.


 I agree. I changed the fluid in many transmissions when I worked in a shop but never in one of my vehicles.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

msmith5554 said:


> If you guys are gonna respond to someone asking a question. Know what your talking about. That trans does not have a serviceable filter. All you should do is a drain and fill. Use only Honda fluid. And NEVER NEVER use a flush machine. It will take exactly 2 1/2 qts to refill once you drain it and then do it every 30 k after that.


This guy is right on, the filter is internal to the transmission (on that particular vehicle) and is not readily serviceable. And I cannot stress enough what he said "NEVER NEVER use a flush machine." Just my opinion and seemingly someone else's as well.

My automatic transmission service consists of draining the pan which gets maybe 20-30% of the fluid out (most of the fluid stays in the torque convertor), and fill through the dipstick tube the same amount drained. I do this 4 times, running the car for a few miles in between drain and replace intervals.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

polarzak said:


> My 2000 Buick Lesabre was traded in with 270k and never had the fluid changed. I bought it new, so I know it was never changed. No issues. A mechanic once told me that if the car is not towing trailers, not abused, and the fluid is not discolored or smell, then the fluid never needs replacing.


I also have an uncle that has a Ford F-250 V-10 with an automatic transmisson that has 260,000+ miles and has never changed the fluid. He has personal experience with flushing transmissions and refuses to do so unless the fluid smells burnt.

I prefer to drain the pan and replace on my vehicles but to each their own.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> the 4r100 in my 7.3 diesel went over 300k miles without any fluid change, no issues.


Consider yourself lucky. Those trannys are known for clogging filters, and starving the rear sections of oil until they are fried. Good rebuilders drill the oil ports larger in those and install higher volume pumps just to prevent a relapse.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

<*(((>< said:


> I do this 4 times, running the car for a few miles in between drain and replace intervals.


Wow.... I changed my trany fluid once on a new Monte Carlo I purchased when I was a lot younger. What a crap job doing it just once, but four times.
Whew..you have a lot of dedication.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

EAch of those four times only takes me 10-15 minutes to drain the transmission pan and refill. Doesn't seem that bad to me, by the time it's done and the ATF is ready for another 40k miles I have about an hour and a half into the change with driving in between pan drains to get the new fluid mixed. Maybe you misunderstood me? I do have a lift which makes thing nice.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

<*(((>< said:


> I do have a lift which makes thing nice.


 Yes, it certainly would. I remember jacking up my car so I could get underneath, taking the pan off, and spilling fluid all over my Dad's brand new garage floor in my parent's new house. He was good about it, but I never changed fluid again in any of my vehicles. I have removed the transmission and engine in my little two seater toy, and that was fun compared to the fluid change job. Geeeee, I want a lift. Have to talk to my wife.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

polarzak said:


> Yes, it certainly would. I remember jacking up my car so I could get underneath, taking the pan off, and spilling fluid all over my Dad's brand new garage floor in my parent's new house. He was good about it, but I never changed fluid again in any of my vehicles. I have removed the transmission and engine in my little two seater toy, and that was fun compared to the fluid change job. Geeeee, I want a lift. Have to talk to my wife.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


I don't have to remove the pan on my vehicles, the manufacturers had the foresight to put drains in all of the drivetrain (tranny, x-fer case, diff, etc). Something that a lot (not all) of American manufacturers fail to do :wallbash:

Yes having a lift is very nice, all of us brothers and my dad work on our vehicles so it gets enough use between us all. Really when one thinks about it, and can get a few others to help pay for a $3,000 lift, it pays for itself pretty quick.


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

There's an awful lot of BS in this thread as well as some good advice. How about following the procedure in the owner's manual which was developed by engineers who designed the transmission. Whether or not the transmission fluid needs changing depends on a lot of things. If it is full synthetic fluid, it may not need changing yet at 135,000 miles. The owner's manual maintenance schedule for my Lincoln Town Car recommends a fluid change at 150,000 miles. My Super Duty truck recommends fluid changes at 30,000 miles. It depends on the transmission and the type of fluid that it uses. The type of service, (driving conditions) , also effects the recommended change interval. Whether to flush or not also depends on the particular transmission. Please follow the manufacturer's recommendations for your vehicle. BTW, I have been rebuilding transmissions for more than forty years. I have NEVER seen one fail due to changing the transmission fluid.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

You will never get me to power flush a transmission. I would do an IV chase of new fluid using the engines power to pull the new fluid but no way will I ever use a machine flush on my vehicles. Just my opinion as I have had several instances of people I know having a power flush done on an engine and it having problems only weeks later, without exhibiting symptoms beforehand. I haven't rebuilt transmissions for 40 years but I've been around cars enough to know to avoid power flushes. There's too much chance of the pressure from the machines churning up some foreign material and it getting lodged into the countless veins within an automatic transmission.

To me service intervals all are subject to what expectations the owner has for the vehicle. I personally buy my vehicles with around 100k miles and drive them tip its not worth putting money into them. To me putting $100 of ATF fluid in every 40-50k miles makes good sense to me, I don't give a rip whether or not the manufacturer states it can go for 150k miles, most if their customers don't own the vehicle past that mileage anyways. 

I dont disagree with most of what the previous poster said, I'm sure he has a wealth of knowledge doing it for 40 years, but there is no way I'm letting any cars ATF go 150k.

Like the previous poster said a lot of the need to change fluid depends on the driving, but for me I always err on the side of caution when dealing with a $3,000+ part.


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

I can understand why you would feel that way. Changing the fluid more often than scheduled is certainly not going to hurt anything. I felt much the same way as you before I went to transmission school and learned how to rebuild automatic transmissions...a very many years ago. I was very slow to accept fully synthetic motor oil and transmission fluid. Over the years having worked on so many vehicles, rebuilding engines and transmissions, seeing the internals under so many different circumstances, and doing total restorations, I have come to appreciate the engineers who design these things. I often install "upgraded" parts and I sometimes change fluids early, but I respect the factory recommendations as well. I refuse to purchase a used vehicle from someone who has not serviced it properly.


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## toolaholic (Jul 31, 2011)

davido30093 said:


> There's an awful lot of BS in this thread as well as some good advice. How about following the procedure in the owner's manual which was developed by engineers who designed the transmission. Whether or not the transmission fluid needs changing depends on a lot of things. If it is full synthetic fluid, it may not need changing yet at 135,000 miles. The owner's manual maintenance schedule for my Lincoln Town Car recommends a fluid change at 150,000 miles. My Super Duty truck recommends fluid changes at 30,000 miles. It depends on the transmission and the type of fluid that it uses. The type of service, (driving conditions) , also effects the recommended change interval. Whether to flush or not also depends on the particular transmission. Please follow the manufacturer's recommendations for your vehicle. BTW, I have been rebuilding transmissions for more than forty years. I have NEVER seen one fail due to changing the transmission fluid.


I changed ATF in a 1999 chevy lumina my daughter uses to go to school. Bought from inlaws w/ 95000 miles on it. First 60,000 it was a sales rep can for 1st 2 years of life and the last 35,000 grannied by mother in law. Gm called for change at 100,000. I dropped pan and changed fluid at 96,000 plus wix filter and new fel pro pan gasket. My best friend (mechanic) and all the parts guys at advance auto frowned on it. They said tran would leak with new fluid cause dirt plugs the leaks. My daughter put 1,000 miles on it and it hasn't blown up yet. LOL Doesn't leak either. Used 6 quarts of castrol dexmerc and a 1/2 quart of lucas transmission additive( not a stop leak- they make that too).


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

Way to go!! You can tell your friend and the guys at the parts store that I said you did the right thing....and at 69 years old, and probably more training and experience than all of that group combined, I am betting that you and I are right.


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## toolaholic (Jul 31, 2011)

davido30093 said:


> Way to go!! You can tell your friend and the guys at the parts store that I said you did the right thing....and at 69 years old, and probably more training and experience than all of that group combined, I am betting that you and I are right.


Thanks! I figured the $70 I spent was alot cheaper than a tranny rebuild. Fluid was red but oxidized a bit.We paid 1750 for car and I want 4 years out of it for both daughters to use for school. If tran went it would go to junkyard as spending big $$$ on old car worth $1750 doesn't make financial sense.


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

You probably didn't really need the additive, but it shouldn't hurt it. As long as the fluid that you used meets the factory specs for that transmission, you should be good to go for a while.


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## toolaholic (Jul 31, 2011)

davido30093 said:


> You probably didn't really need the additive, but it shouldn't hurt it. As long as the fluid that you used meets the factory specs for that transmission, you should be good to go for a while.


Yeah wasn't sure about the lucas. I like lucas oil treatment for the 99 lumina and 99 Dakota r/t as it seems to slow oil leaks(probably cause the stuff is so thick it makes oil viscosity higher.).


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## sam floor (Jun 27, 2009)

I also went to tranny school many years ago. The trannys from the 60's 70's and 80's really didn't need fluid changes as much as modern trannys. In many respects they were better. One of the worst through the years though, was the one in the Taurus/Sable. They were junk. Along with the Dodge/Chrysler minivan trannys.


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## toolaholic (Jul 31, 2011)

sam floor said:


> I also went to tranny school many years ago. The trannys from the 60's 70's and 80's really didn't need fluid changes as much as modern trannys. In many respects they were better. One of the worst through the years though, was the one in the Taurus/Sable. They were junk. Along with the Dodge/Chrysler minivan trannys.


The transmissions of yesteryear to the best of my knowledge were alot bigger heavier and more robust than today's lightweight aluminum small transmissions. Everything automobiles is lightweight and not made as well as years ago. Gotta drop that weight to save in that gas.


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## BirdSlapper (Apr 25, 2013)

When I get a car or truck, usually around 100k miles, I drop the pan, change the filter and refill at the same time I also do plugs and oil change. After the next oil change, I have it flushed and every 30k afterwards.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

i've never had a tranny flush on any of my vehicles just ran 'em until they went out which was always well past the 100k mark, closer to the 200k mile mark. and again, this 7.3 diesel with a 4r100 went well over 300k and it wasn't a lack of flush that caused the failure, it was the addition of a 140 hp chip, broke the mechanical diode.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

davido30093 said:


> I have been rebuilding transmissions for more than forty years.


Not trying to hijack this thread, but just curious if you're familiar with a Buick Switch Pitch transmission? If so, what is your opinion on them? I have one in my car and had the hardest time finding someone to rebuild it a few years back. Not many people know what they are anymore.


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

I have rebuilt a lot of GM transmissions, but I do not recall one by that name. Actually, I retired a few years ago and it may be one that I have not seen. Can you tell me the year and specific model of car that it came in?


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

davido30093 said:


> I have rebuilt a lot of GM transmissions, but I do not recall one by that name. Actually, I retired a few years ago and it may be one that I have not seen. Can you tell me the year and specific model of car that it came in?


1966 Buick Riviera GS. It was also used in Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs during that time. '68 might have been the last year they used it, but I could be wrong.


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## davido30093 (Jan 1, 2011)

I didn't remember the term "switch pitch", but then there are a lot of things that I don't remember at my age. It appears that the "switch pitch" transmission was a special version of the turbohydromatic 400. I rebuilt a lot of those which probably included the switch pitch as well. The primary differences were in the valve body and a different sized shift solenoid. I usually identified the transmission by the id tag on the transmission or by the specifications provided by GM. The primary problem with repairing a transmission of this type would be identifying the unusual shift pattern when testing for proper operation since the downshift and upshift behaved differently from other th400s. Anyone who could rebuild a TH400 should not have had a problem rebuilding a "switch pitch".

Here is some additional info:
http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/SPTrans.htm


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

That's only part of it. Another primary difference (biggest difference) was the torque converter, which is where it got the name "switch pitch". The stator blades can change the angle to reduce friction in order to put the vehicle in motion. The effect feels like a major torque increase at full throttle. Most people who rebuilt the Switch Pitch tranny's didn't know enough about them, and replaced the Switch Pitch converter with a regular lockup converter.


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