# Architectural shingles to buy vs. regular



## vkerns (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm replacing my roof due to hail damage. I want to put on architectural shingles. My insurance guy told me that with architectural shingles, you have to use more than regular asphalt shingles. Basically, for every 3 bundles of asphalt shingles that you use, it takes 4 bundles of the architectural shingles. Is this a fact? I'm trying to calculate for my 1,900 square foot roof. Thank you.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Some of the 40 or 50 year architectural shingles require 4-5 bundles per square, but that is because there are less shingles in each bundle.

It still takes the same amount of squares, (100 square feet), or actual shingles to roof over the same area.

Sounds like someone is trying to jack you around or doesn't know what he is talking about.

Ed


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## vkerns (Apr 28, 2008)

*Thanks Ed!*

It was my insurance guy that told me that. While I'm waiting on insurance to work things out, one of our local big chain hardware places is running a special on the Owens-Corning 30-year architectural shingles at $11.83/bundle or $35.49 a square. Their asphalt shingles are currently $11.99/bundle or $35.97 a square, which I think is a great deal. The sale runs through today. Thanks for your help. You wouldn't be close to Van Buren, AR, would you?


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

No, I am in the NW suburbs of Chicago, where it is snowing today????? WTF

Add on the cost of delivery and roof top loading and the deal may not be as good as it sounds, plus it is probably for in stock colors only.

Try a roofing supply house and get some quotes from professional contractors to order the materials and do the installation correctly. I would help review the specifications presented if desired.

Ed


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## gusthehonky (Apr 29, 2008)

He was correct about the number of bundles, but only due to thickness of the product the big difference will be labor, arch. is way easier and quicker, just a better designed product than 3 tab in any installation scenario I can think of. 3 tab is dead, I'm done with it, will turn down most jobs if it is the spec.


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## Fiveash (Sep 4, 2011)

*Fiveash Renovations*

There can be more bundles for some Architectural shingles but you paid by the square for shingles when you do a whole roof. The insurance man seems to be talking you into the cheaper roof. The Architectural shingles are 90 dollars of more a square where the three tab are 80. You get the same amount of shingles in a square of each shingle, but the Architectural shingle is better. If you have 1900 square feet you will need at least 19 square, but I would get 20 to account for cuts. Don't let the insurance man talk you down to a cheaper shingle.

http://fiveashrenovations.com


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

Fiveash said:


> There can be more bundles for some Architectural shingles but you paid by the square for shingles when you do a whole roof. The insurance man seems to be talking you into the cheaper roof. The Architectural shingles are 90 dollars of more a square where the three tab are 80. You get the same amount of shingles in a square of each shingle, but the Architectural shingle is better. If you have 1900 square feet you will need at least 19 square, but I would get 20 to account for cuts. Don't let the insurance man talk you down to a cheaper shingle.
> 
> http://fiveashrenovations.com


 

My roofer had me order 21 square of Architectural for my 1400 sq. ft. roof. So am I buying way too much?


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## bcdemon (Jul 12, 2010)

MotoXXX said:


> My roofer had me order 21 square of Architectural for my 1400 sq. ft. roof. So am I buying way too much?


Your roof is 1400sq ft, and your roofer had you buy 2100 sq ft worth of material, that's a lot of waste. Don't let him take the extras when he leaves, that's theft.


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

bcdemon said:


> Your roof is 1400sq ft, and your roofer had you buy 2100 sq ft worth of material, that's a lot of waste. Don't let him take the extras when he leaves, that's theft.


I will be helping with the install so I will know how much we use. He did say it may be too much and we can take the unused bundles back. I talked to the materials supplier myself, and he said that was about right for figuring waste when weaving in your valleys but it may be a little much and said he would take back undamaged bundles. At today's prices I hope to bring some back! :yes:
Thanks for your time.


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## bcdemon (Jul 12, 2010)

Depending on the house style, waste is usually around 10% and up. All depends on the roofer.

Personally I would take back 3 square right now and buy valley metal instead of weaving a valley. Just me though.


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

bcdemon said:


> Depending on the house style, waste is usually around 10% and up. All depends on the roofer.
> 
> Personally I would take back 3 square right now and buy valley metal instead of weaving a valley. Just me though.


I am going over my exsisting three tab roof with felt and architectural. He is putting in valley metal but still weaving the valleys. He says that is the way he prefers to do it, looks better also. My old roof was 18 yrs. old and the galvanized valley metal is rusty where it was exposed. looks brand new on the underside.


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## BamBamm5144 (Oct 6, 2009)

MotoXXX said:


> I am going over my exsisting three tab roof with felt and architectural. He is putting in valley metal but still weaving the valleys. He says that is the way he prefers to do it, looks better also. My old roof was 18 yrs. old and the galvanized valley metal is rusty where it was exposed. looks brand new on the underside.


Doesn't sound like you have a roofer helping you but rather a guy who sorta knows how to shingle. 

#1 - Always best to tear off
#2 - if you don't tear off DON'T put on another layer of felt


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Most of the Lifetimes are 4 bundles due to the thickness of the material.

Like it was said a square is a square.,well I am not real sure of that I think it was lower to around 98??,,,I might be wrong.But nonetheless.

If anyone is getting Arch's for under $40 per square.,I would empty out your savings and buy everyone you could.

If you are wanting Arch's maybe the confusion with the numbers is the need of the Arch's,starters and ridge.But percentage factors are used or simply using a tape for footage of ridge would clear some of the fog so to speak.

Moto.,I hate to say it but someone is pulling on your checkbook.A 14sq roof deck and ordering 21sq. is nuts.

You would have to be a very wasteful roofer or your trying to trump the cost a bit.And unless your house is a 14 sq. valley that is entirely too much material.

You could probably lace cut,weave and maybe install a Cali cut all at once.


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Doesn't sound like you have a roofer helping you but rather a guy who sorta knows how to shingle.
> 
> #1 - Always best to tear off
> #2 - if you don't tear off DON'T put on another layer of felt


We are doing this by the roofing manufacturers specs (Malarkey). It clearly states that when going over an exsisting roof they require you to lay down felt first. As for #1 always best to tear off, that is a matter of choice, I am selling this house in the near future.
Please explain why you don't put down felt when roofing over an exsisting roof.



Roofmaster417 said:


> Most of the Lifetimes are 4 bundles due to the thickness of the material.
> 
> Like it was said a square is a square.,well I am not real sure of that I think it was lower to around 98??,,,I might be wrong.But nonetheless.
> 
> ...


The waste part really doesn't matter as I bought the materials myself, and the supplier already told me they will take back any unused materials as long as they are not damaged. In fact they delivered the roofing and ridge vent today, and already took back one bundle of starter course and one roll of felt. We had all the repairs done, felt and starter course down already when the delivery truck came with the shingles. They showed up about 5:30 this evening and by 8:00 we had almost one third of the roof done. Lookin good so far.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Felt paper over an existing old roof "May" trap in moisture and condensation and hasten the decay of the new shingles laid over the top.

But, since you are selling, it should be fine for the foreseeable near future.

Plus, as you indicated, it is THAT MANUFACTURERS written specifications.

Ed


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

Does the 1400 sq ft represent the sq ft of the house, or the roof? Putting architecturals over 3 tab is a bad idea in my book.


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

sixeightten said:


> Does the 1400 sq ft represent the sq ft of the house, or the roof? Putting architecturals over 3 tab is a bad idea in my book.


I don't remember the exact measurements but it is a 1000 sq. ft. house with a single car garage, and the roof has two valleys. The length of the two ridges are 30 ft. and 39 ft. and I think it is a 4 in 12 pitch.


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## bcdemon (Jul 12, 2010)

LMAO, going over an old roof is dumb, cheap and lazy, but that's just my opinion. Putting metal in a valley and then weaving over it seems like a waste of metal, again just me.

I hope you have it in you to tell the prospective buyers that "the brand new roof" your realtor is going to push has a layer of old crap roof underneath it.


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## MotoXXX (Sep 8, 2011)

bcdemon said:


> LMAO, going over an old roof is dumb, cheap and lazy, but that's just my opinion. Putting metal in a valley and then weaving over it seems like a waste of metal, again just me.
> 
> I hope you have it in you to tell the prospective buyers that "the brand new roof" your realtor is going to push has a layer of old crap roof underneath it.


 
You're right, that is YOUR opinion and I got as many answers in the other direction. About half of the people I talked to about it said they have done it and would do it again. The exsisting roof never leaked, and I have no reason to believe the new one will either, it just looked like crap. As for the valley metal I would have to agree, but when asked about it he said it was to make a smoother transition in the valley as there was of course a dip where the old metal is. It also got 36" rolled roofing in the valleys.


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## gspina (Oct 7, 2011)

Friends of the family own a roofing company and agree, they prefer installing arch over 3 tab and in many cases will offer a small discount on install to encourage the homeowner to use arch shingles. 



gusthehonky said:


> He was correct about the number of bundles, but only due to thickness of the product the big difference will be labor, arch. is way easier and quicker, just a better designed product than 3 tab in any installation scenario I can think of. 3 tab is dead, I'm done with it, will turn down most jobs if it is the spec.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

For the small offset in material price, most customers opt for what is thought of as the nicer shingle.

Going over with a second layer is not preferred in my opinion.


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## bluebird5 (Jan 24, 2011)

ok what the :furious: is going on here. No architectrual shingles are not all 4 bundles a square. They are not 10 bucks a bundle either unless you are stealing them. They are in the 30 bucks a bundle range since aftr all the spring storms. 21 squares is rediculous. 15 to 16 squares is fine. Not tearing off the old roof is a bad idea also. Why not tear it off and start fresh. Going over old crap= extra weight and more heat.


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## James58 (Nov 6, 2011)

Things might be different in warm climates, but here in the north where it snows, its entirely optional to remove the first layer on re-roofing unless the asphalt shingles are very deteriorated in places, making a smooth application difficult for the 2nd new layer. Most people just cover over (do check your warranty also). The reasons are added insulation/protection being the primary, and second the cost, not to mention the mess it creates. You might have noticed that roofing nails come in various lengths. Provided you can nail through into the plywood or boards, go for the 2nd layer and some even lay on a 3rd layer. Its not uncommon to see three layers on roofs in the Toronto area. If your roof shingles are badly deteriorated in some places, but not others, or curling, chances are your roof has a venting issue. Make sure its properly vented when doing the re-roofing, and personally, stick to the metal valleys. There's a lot of wear from the elements in that valley, and of course you know why shingles are speckled with with ceramic granules, right? Of course you do - it protects the asphalt from ultra-violet light and prolongs shingle life. This is why you don't want the branches of an overhanging tree limb wearing on your roof, not to mention the ice and snow that can form in the valley. 

Oh, and if you do go for layer-removal, make sure you buy a magnet on a pole (as in broom pole) and sweep with care, because the roofers will leave nails behind, no matter how diligent they appear to be; and roofing nails can become a nasty projectile when the lawnmower blade connects. I guarantee you'll find them all the way out into the street. 

If your roof has any 'belly' going on, don't just replace the sheet. Check the rafter also. You might need to marry on another stick of wood to bring the surface back to it's true slope or it could be damaged and need replacing altogether. 

One last note on behalf of the spelling police - its 'ridiculous' with two i's. I keep seeing '_rediculous_' written here in this forum. For some reason it bothers me, and i can't explain why... 

Happy roofing!


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## Tetiana (Oct 28, 2015)

Just because you are selling doesn't mean you should stick the new homeowner with roof problems.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Since the thread is almost 5 years old, my guess is the house sold quite a while ago.


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