# Property has barn built of railroad ties



## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

I can only answer your question based on my location as you chose not to provide that. If rail ties are existing on the property, they can stay. However should you chose to move them, you will need all sorts of DEC permits and proof that they were there before the law went into effect regarding the ban on owning them. 

As far as the leaching,...all I can offer to this is, I know of a driveway that has them as a boarder and there is grass growing out of the ties themselves. 

The reason there is a ban on them in my area is due to the creosote leaching. I am sure the bank/lender may have some concerns about them as well as they assume the liability if you foreclose.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

A bit of information to ponder. My property soil is very sandy and not known for earth worms as some other soils are. In fact the only place I've ever seen an earth worm was under a decaying creosote bridge timber. This can be taken with a grain of salt as well as I take some of the claims of radical environmentalist.

Being the structures in question aren't the color of creosote nor the smell they could possibly be Penta treated timbers which has been in use for a few decades. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentachlorophenol


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

I have no knowledge of the environmental, health issues, never thought about it. I tried googling and one of the first things that came up was that I could buy them at Home Depot 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbrande...-8-ft-Actual-96-in-5100000070908000/100023488


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## Victoria-nola (Aug 17, 2015)

danpik said:


> I can only answer your question based on my location as you chose not to provide that. If rail ties are existing on the property, they can stay. However should you chose to move them, you will need all sorts of DEC permits and proof that they were there before the law went into effect regarding the ban on owning them.
> 
> As far as the leaching,...all I can offer to this is, I know of a driveway that has them as a boarder and there is grass growing out of the ties themselves.
> 
> The reason there is a ban on them in my area is due to the creosote leaching. I am sure the bank/lender may have some concerns about them as well as they assume the liability if you foreclose.


The property is in Southwestern Mississippi. I hadn't even thought about the lender.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Creosote treated railroad ties are still commonly used in the industry. I have never seen a house or other occupied structure built out of them, kind of unique. I suggest you arrange to have soil samples and perhaps wood samples tested by a qualified laboratory to see what the timbers were treated with (might not have been creosote), how much is in the soil. Similarly, you can get the well water tested.

Certainly no one on an internet chat forum is in a position to discuss the actual toxicity or danger of the particular property until the tests are done, and a professional evaluation of the significance of the tests is prepared.

I certainly understand your concern. I passed on a beautiful lot because it was adjacent to an active apple orchard. Apple orchards used a variety of dangerous pesticides in the past, including lead and arsenic, for at least the past hundred years, and we concluded that the probability of having contaminated soil was too high to warrant purchase.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

reading a bit, again I am very uninformed overall, I think your biggest concern should be how your various branches of Government view it, not what it will do to your chickens. 
Here is a link to the Wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote#Health_effects

Its interesting to me that while its considered a potential human carcinogen, a study of human workers who worked around the stuff in wood treating plants showed no increased level of cancer above the norm. If your a hairless rodent getting dunked in the stuff daily your outcome isn't so good. 
Maybe paying 100-150 bucks to test the well water would be worth it. That can give you some idea if it has leached down that far.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

WOW!

They sky is falling, the sky is falling..
How come all the railroad guys didn't die from creosote.? or the factory workers.?
How come all the contractors didn't die from PT lumber.?
How come all the contractors didn't die from lead paint, gas etc..

Can you search this whole internet and find just one case.? Other then studies show.?

If left alone those barns will probably be here another 100+ years, as long as we don't let modern idiocy interfere. Whole new industries have come about out of peoples fear.

Fact.
You have a 100 times more to fear from city drinking water. Don't just take my word for it, look it up. How do think all the pharmaceuticals get in there.


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## Victoria-nola (Aug 17, 2015)

Daniel Holzman said:


> Creosote treated railroad ties are still commonly used in the industry. I have never seen a house or other occupied structure built out of them, kind of unique. I suggest you arrange to have soil samples and perhaps wood samples tested by a qualified laboratory to see what the timbers were treated with (might not have been creosote), how much is in the soil. Similarly, you can get the well water tested.
> 
> Certainly no one on an internet chat forum is in a position to discuss the actual toxicity or danger of the particular property until the tests are done, and a professional evaluation of the significance of the tests is prepared.
> 
> I certainly understand your concern. I passed on a beautiful lot because it was adjacent to an active apple orchard. Apple orchards used a variety of dangerous pesticides in the past, including lead and arsenic, for at least the past hundred years, and we concluded that the probability of having contaminated soil was too high to warrant purchase.





Victoria-nola said:


> The property is in Southwestern Mississippi. I hadn't even thought about the lender.


Thanks, Daniel, I appreciate the help. Yes, I will find a lab and get samples sent, and test for toxicity. I needed a plan.

It may not be as unique as one might hope. In seeking answers over the last 12 hours I have found a few websites offering plans for railroad tie and phone-pole cabins that I can hope are mostly archaic historical documents, but there are a LOT of people asking about using them for various purposes in home and garden. Safe to assume a lot more are using them without asking anyone online about safety.

Thanks again, and thanks to everyone who has offered your thoughts. I actually have been using high-tech water filters for many decades on city water, but I have learned via living off the grid that my preference is to have both grid and non-grid options available. In the case of this property, we do have that option, which is part of its draw for us. I'll report back on the findings.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

One thought I will toss out.....Maybe your first call should be to an environmental lawyer to see what legal responsibility you could potentially be taking on.


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## Victoria-nola (Aug 17, 2015)

*I was mistaken!! I misunderstood! I was WRONG!*

Rarely have I been so delirious to be wrong! :jester: 

Turns out the barn and outbuildings are built NOT from railroad ties with creosote but from recycled boxcars. The (now closed) plant in the town rebuilt boxcars from around the nation for one of the largest railroads, and that's where the man worked. That's why the timbers are so long and don't look dark and greasy! You can see the printing on the side from where the boxcar was painted, I just didn't know what I was looking at when I first saw it. There was no creosote in the plant and boxcars are not made from creosoted lumber. 

I am so, so happy. Thank you all very very much for your kind concern and for giving me a plan that allowed me to get some rest. I'm so thrilled that this isn't an issue, and I also learned today that our counteroffer is accepted. 

I'm really happy to find this forum and no doubt will be back in future with more questions as we take on the myriad of tasks involved in small-farm life. I'm so happy to be going back to the countryside and my animals will love having room to stretch their legs again.

Again, thank you, bless you for your help.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

congratulations and best wishes. :thumbup:


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Now the mystery has been solved could we possibly see a few pictures of these historic box car buildings?


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Now the mystery has been solved could we possibly see a few pictures of these historic box car buildings?


:thumbsup:


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## Victoria-nola (Aug 17, 2015)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Now the mystery has been solved could we possibly see a few pictures of these historic box car buildings?


I don't have a good picture of the barn timbers with the boxcar markings. But I'm posting the couple of pictures I have access to that at least shows the buildings. One is the toolshed, the other is the back of the barn where there is a deep overhang on the northside for a workspace (the rest of the barn has a galvanized corrugated tin roof that looks in very good condition, no rust visible). It's full of junk that we'll have to get rid of (and maybe find a few treasures?). That's the only place on the entire property that has any junk or trash tho. Very clean. Also, I'm informed that the barn was probably built in c.1960, but of course the wood was from the 40s.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Great news----charming buildings,too. 

I am so pleased that all is going well---the property sounds like it will make a nice home--Mike---


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Victoria-nola said:


> I don't have a good picture of the barn timbers with the boxcar markings. But I'm posting the couple of pictures I have access to that at least shows the buildings. One is the toolshed, the other is the back of the barn where there is a deep overhang on the northside for a workspace (the rest of the barn has a galvanized corrugated tin roof that looks in very good condition, no rust visible). It's full of junk that we'll have to get rid of (and maybe find a few treasures?). That's the only place on the entire property that has any junk or trash tho. Very clean. Also, I'm informed that the barn was probably built in c.1960, but of course the wood was from the 40s.


Thanks so much for the photos. I love old buildings like that. Maybe it's because the wood and I are about the same age.:laughing: 
. 
Enjoy your new property and more pictures would be very welcome if your time ever permits.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

More pictures are required after the closing. 

Us country boys love this stuff.


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## Victoria-nola (Aug 17, 2015)

Thanks everyone! It's a wonderfully charming place. Thus my despair when it seemed threatened. All I can say is, PHEW!!!! I hope to post more pics showing the boxcar markings on the barn beams.


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