# When paint won't dry....



## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm at a loss on this one. I've painted for over 35 years and never experienced this type of problem. In cooler conditions paint struggles to dry, but, it always dries. Are the Windsor chairs wood or metal? Not that it matters a whole bunch, but, it's possible the wrong primer may have been sold to you. With something like wood chairs, I would want to oil prime and oil finish them. Latex enamel has some tack to it sometimes that makes them seem sticky. The oil base finish hardens up to a slick, non-sticky surface. Maybe take a chair with you to the paint store so they can maybe see what the heck is going on.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Primers , even in oil. dry reasonably fast. Maybe they gave you another can from the same batch? 
What exactly are the products you are using?


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Go to Ben Moore.


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

The chairs are wood. I bought them at a consignment store and got a great deal. To replace them would cost many hundreds of dollars new. To have someone else remove the paint would run around 85 - 100 bucks a chair. I can't afford that. I used SW's oil based primer (red can) and water based enamel because that is what they recommended. I've only used oil based paints a few times - but I never had this problem. It may be that both cans of enamel are from the same batch....but the salesman should have checked batch numbers. They dropped the ball big time on this and I am not finished fighting. But stripping paint from chairs is a nightmare. It's hard and messy. At the very least they should have given me some paint stripper for free.


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

Oh - about bring a chair with me to the store...the sales guy said, "I don't want to see your chairs...I don't need your chairs." Nice.


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

That's where I'm planning to go. But Not until the chairs are stripped - which will take weeks. These chairs have slats that are thin and rounded at the top and bottom and flat in between. The thin, round parts are miserable to strip because the scraper doesn't cover enough of the surface to grip the loosened paint.

Anyone have any stripping advice?


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

wisconsinmandy said:


> Oh - about bring a chair with me to the store...the sales guy said, "I don't want to see your chairs...I don't need your chairs." Nice.


Go to Ben Moore.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Mandy, I'm sorry to hear about all the difficulty you're having. Believe me when I tell you, I'm sharing your frustration these days with paint. I do this for a living, and when I'm not dealing with paint shortcomings, I'm living with the uncertainty that tomorrow I'm going to be facing a precidament similar to yours. Firstly, get away from SW. They're a lousy company. I deal with them for one reason, I have to, as they're too large a presence in my area to avoid. They recently (2-3 years) purchased MAB paints, which was a large presence itself. SW basically doubled their market share overnight. And, they are destroying MAB. SW is a Stepford company, and they keep their staff on very short leashes. They have very a rigid bureaucratic structure, and there is no bending to accomadate needs. The MAB lifers I use to deal with, who are now SW employees, are very different today than yesterday. Customer service is very poor, prices are very high, and product knowledge is very weak. On Sundays, they put a kid in there to basically turn the lights on and off, and ring some sales between. I could go on, but I think you get my point. 
As to your problem, there's nothing you can do but strip the chairs and start over. They're only going to replace the paint, that's it. Off the shelf strippers are weak, so struggle with what's available. Gymschu, I'm having problems with paint that I'm at a loss to explain as well. That is, if I'm willing to ignore the obvious. I have three or four completed jobs now that are occupying my thoughts, because the paint is obviously not performing. It musn't be, because I do a lot of research on conditions/products, sweat out proper and exhaustive prep work, apply finishes with care and attention, and generally do all my work by the book, and things aren't working. I've never had problems. I only blame the companies to extent they don't stand up. To who? The federal/state governments, where I lay the blame squarely. The paint companies had the formulas/chemistry down and the govt comes in and clears the tables. The hysterical approach to VOC's and the environment is killing the coatings industry, and our livelihoods, and it's on target to get worse as more stringent levels are coming. It's especially bad with the performance products, primers, rust inhibitors, *strippers*, etc. The unavailability of products is making things harder, as options get fewer and you have to settle for things now. If the chemicals the companies were putting in the can didn't do anything, they wouldn't be there in the first place. If a safer, more effective, option was available, don't you think the high paid paint chemists would have found them? Just because the govt says remove them doesn't mean the companies have a suitable, effective substitute. If you were forced to take some spices out of your soup recipe, would it taste the same? Would you not be p'd off? So Mandy, with all due respect, if you support all the VOC reductions and environmental regulation, take your medicine and stop complaining. I'm sorry to be so brunt, but restrictions on your freedom is the cause of your problem, imo. I'm disappointed in my peers and the general public who are seemingly rolling over and, oh well. Oh well? This is America, though it's really starting to not resemble itself lately. According to guy in the PS, I'm not the only one having problems, but I'm one of the only ones speaking out. Really? Are you kidding me? People are rolling over while their livelihood is decimated? Really? That's sad. The paint companies are putting a smiley face on and pretending things are great, but the insiders I speak to are telling me otherwise. One of the tech guys from BM, said "We're f**ked"! So with the public perception that things are cheeky, who do you think the ho's are going to blame when jobs go south? You, not the paint. One of the few solar manufacturers, from California, recently declared bankruptcy. One of the reasons was the strict environmental regualtions. Is that irony or what? That's telling. We need to stand up, but, unfortunately, I don't see the sheeple of America doing that anytime soon. Thanks for the tirade.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

Oil and water don't mix. I don't think you can use water based over oil based.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

You also asked for stripping advice, so here is how I did it the last time I stripped carved, turned, and intricately detailed wood. First and foremost -- Good rubber gloves and Good safety glasses. Take the chairs outside in the yard away from anything you care about, like cars, (the grass will grow back, eventually). I used Dad's spray on stripper, it comes with a spray bottle attached to the can. Spray the stripper on the chairs well, wait the time stated on the can and using an old toothbrush, scrub the stripper and paint off the wood turns and details. It may take a few times and several old toothbrushes to get all the paint out of the details of the wood. Once you have them stripped, clean them good with cleaner recommended on the stripper can and then use a stripper neutralizer . Both cleaner and neutralizer should be sold on the shelf by the stripper. Good Luck!


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Just so there isn't confusion over your statement. Oil and water don't mix when they're wet. With proper prep you can put an oil coat over a cured latex, and visa versa. It's all in the prep.


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

*Sigh*

Jsheridan - Tirade away! I'm all about the green stuff but I'm not a fanatic. I don't care of paint is "green" I just want it to work. By the way I'm hoarding light bulbs before they disappear and we are left with only those pathetic corkscrew light bulbs!)

My treatment at both the store and the company is miserable. As a female I often encounter salesmen who patronize me...I can deal with them in a heartbeat. I have been refinishing or painting furniture for years. But I have to make that clear immediately or I get treated like the "little lady". UGH. The guy who runs our local SW is nasty, opinionated and talks down to everyone. HE is the one who suggested the water based enamel. When God created *******s He used this guy as the prototype.

There have been some good suggestions offered on this board. I will try a few as long as our weather holds out. Unfortunately I feel my enthusiasm waning. I may just throw in the paint towel and find 6 more chairs somewhere...

*Would a deglosser do anything*? Like maybe remove the glossy part of the paint and allow me to paint over? I am also open to aging the chairs and making them look like they've been worn, used and and been around for many years...I tried just light sanding, rubbing hard in some places to get a breakthrough to the wood. It looks nice but anywhere I didn't sand hard enough is tacky.


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

I asked about that when the SW guy suggested the water based enamel. He said it wouldn't be an issue. He still said that when I took the paint back. I would like to take back the "new" paint and pour it over his head....but I'd get arrested.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

You might try sitting the chairs in the hot sun for a few days and see if that will help them dry. I know when I stain or paint outside in the sun it dries much faster then inside.


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## justincase123 (Oct 24, 2010)

oops! setting


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Are you referring the water base over oil? I really don't think that is your problem, it sounds like the paint itself.
Any coating over a dry coating should do what it is supposed to- dry itself.
Adhesion on the other hand- thats where the prep comes in.


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## m1951mm (Apr 16, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> Just so there isn't confusion over your statement. Oil and water don't mix when they're wet. With proper prep you can put an oil coat over a cured latex, and visa versa. Is it true, you can put latex over oil???? It's all in the prep.


 This is news to me, but then again I could be in the dark ages. Please explain the ins and outs:huh:.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm kind of surprised this is new news for you MM. 
I assume we are talking about enamels or trim paint. 
A good scuff sand , and particularly oil to WB, use a bonding primer. Good idea in both directions. 
WB under oil- Z 123 is perfect- I have had "questions " about it going from a varnish to WB, but with good scuff it (123 and most WB adhesion primers) reach full adhesion with cure- about 14 days. 
Bin will get it quicker- but harder to lay smooth.
Oil underbodys also make a good transition primer. 
Hope that helps.

BTW- If anybody wants to know one of several times when the "primer and paint in one " is complete BS- this is it. The primer to go from oil to WB is very important, and must be a Really good one. 
Know your problem- know your primer.


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## m1951mm (Apr 16, 2011)

Brush, I have to admit that I have not used 123 between oil and latex top coat. I was always told that if you are going over oil do an oil primer that will accept latex after. Scuffing is granted.

I so LOVE this FORUM!!!!!!! Thanks:thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

m1951mm said:


> Brush, I have to admit that I have not used 123 between oil and latex top coat. I was always told that if you are going over oil do an oil primer that will accept latex after. Scuffing is granted.
> 
> I so LOVE this FORUM!!!!!!! Thanks:thumbsup:


As The Man said, nope:no:


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

*Ain't no sunshine gonna work...*

I tried the sun thing in the Spring and also just a few weeks ago. Didn't work. The paint is bad. Period. Thanks for trying...this is better than therapy!


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## orgill (Sep 3, 2011)

*what went wrong*

chances are you could have over applied the oil base primer to an extent where the top film felt dried but the underneath part was still not fully dried. By you applying another coat of paint over the uncured oil primer, the uncured primer remained tacky. Since these chairs are new why don't you use a latex primer? benjamin moore makes a great water based primer for wood...It is called superior primer # 046-00... Use that and topcoat with what you have and you will be in business withing a full day!! good luck


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## Tamguildshamroc (Apr 14, 2011)

Make sure you stir the paint for a bit paint is made up in parts oil paints have dryers in the paint and if the paint is not stired driers will separate so when you paint the oil is at the top and will not dry at all ! Stir it for a bit and then paint if it's a white gloss for example you can see patchy shinny bits on the are that's been painted but it's harder to tell with varnishes or protectors


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

I let the primer dry for 5 days...I would bet my life that it was dry. After I stripped the chair again, I used a new can of oil based primer and let that dry for days also. It's the paint. Even SW admits it's the paint. Both cans probably came from the same batch...


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

orgill- The chairs were old, not new. I bought them used...that was the sad part...they were a bargain!!!


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## wisconsinmandy (Aug 29, 2011)

UPDATE: Today I can report that two chairs are fully stripped and painted. Two more are fully stripped. I bought new paint somewhere else (Ben Moore) Two more chairs to strip. I also decided that no matter how much a whined, I still had to stip the chairs...so I found a new angle...I only allow myself to work on a small part of the chair. When that is paint-free I move on to another part. For whatever reason, this works for me. Slow but sure!

You guys have been awesome! Used alot of your suggestions.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Mandy, always look backward to see what's been accomplished, never look forward to see what's still to be done. Keep your glass half full. Good job, and attitude, on your chore.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

always look backward to see what's been accomplished, never look forward to see what's still to be done. Keep your glass half full. 


wow, inspirational as well as knowledgable:laughing:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I sense a bit of mockery elder. I learned that when I was a very young painter. I was assigned the task a prepping a long block wall, bad shape, with scraper and wire brush in the hot sun. A dog of a job. Realizing how long it took to get so little done, I kept looking down the wall and getting more and more demoralized at how far I had to go and the amount of dog work left. Arriving at the job on the second day with a fresh mind, I realized I had gotten a good bit done the day before. And I was realizing that concentrating on what was yet to be done was dragging me down. I decided to concentrate on the work and keep my focus on what was behind me, not what was ahead. I felt a lot better mentally about the job and there was a huge improvement in my productivity, having done considerably more the second day than the first. The quality of work was better as well. It was a learning experience that has served me well over the years. A tool for the mental('s) toolbox. :thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jsheridan said:


> I sense a bit of mockery elder. I learned that when I was a very young painter. I was assigned the task a prepping a long block wall, bad shape, with scraper and wire brush in the hot sun. A dog of a job. Realizing how long it took to get so little done, I kept looking down the wall and getting more and more demoralized at how far I had to go and the amount of dog work left. Arriving at the job on the second day with a fresh mind, I realized I had gotten a good bit done the day before. And I was realizing that concentrating on what was yet to be done was dragging me down. I decided to concentrate on the work and keep my focus on what was behind me, not what was ahead. I felt a lot better mentally about the job and there was a huge improvement in my productivity, having done considerably more the second day than the first. The quality of work was better as well. It was a learning experience that has served me well over the years. A tool for the mental('s) toolbox. :thumbsup:


Me?:no:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Just keepin ya honest. :thumbsup:
No harm


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I really was not mocking, just stating the facts, Jack:laughing:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I believe you, just riding you a bit. So what, even if you were, isn't mockery the sincerest form of flattery? :laughing:


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Now you've gone too deep for this old feeble brain:laughing:


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