# Lead Paint Discovered After Scraping: Uh-Oh.



## RoughDraft (Jun 10, 2013)

To preface this--I'm a hypochondriac. But I think I may have good reason to be concerned this time around.

Briefly: bought a house six years ago that was built in the 1920s. Front porch paint has been chipped/peeling for years. Decided this was the summer to tackle it. Stripped down to what I thought was the bottom coat of paint and tested it with those LeadChek swabs from Home Depot--negative. 

Went to work for the next 3-4 days using non-toxic strippers (Citri-Strip, Smart Strip) and scraping up the 4-5 layers of paint over the wood planks. I'd say 80% of the time, the paint came off "wet," soggy with the stripper, but I definitely noticed some dust being kicked up, especially when the Citri-Strip had dried.

Saturday: was down to a new, undiscovered layer of bottom paint, a cream color. Bought a sander and was ready to go to town but decided to test for lead again just in case. This time, it came up positive. Cue pacing and restless sleep. 

Needless to say, I didn't sand. I sprayed the porch down with water, wet-scraped what little paint was still loose, and then used a deck wash to get rid of any dirt or grime, spraying most of the run-off on to a canvas tarp. Just ordered some EcoBond from Home Depot and will use that to encapsulate the porch before I prime and paint it. 

I now have a phone call into my physician to see if I can get tested for lead in my blood. My question: how much should I worry, and how much is EPA hysteria? I wore an N95 respirator the entire time I worked--though I know N100 would've been better for lead--took off my work clothes/shoes before entering my house, and jumped in the shower immediately each time. 

I also plan to seal my driveway and "trap" any residual paint chips that way. So--should I panic now, or wait until my blood results come back?


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## funfool (Oct 5, 2012)

Save the panic for later.
Seems you did everything correctly, the respirator is a nice touch.
I am not going to blow sunshine up your you know what, say it is harmless.
I have gone through the 8 hour course and am certified and licensed to remove lead paint.

The big issue with lead paint is children, They stick things in their mouth. They find some lead paint on the wall chipping off and stick it in there mouth, lead is sweet tasting. They want some more of it and will continue to pick it off and eat it.
Is really easy for them because of their size and get lead poisoning, This is real life factual it happens way to much every year, but less each year because not often is lead paint used anymore, but it is still used.

An adult just needs a higher dosage to achieve lead poisoning, our instructor that also was a major commercial local painting company, he went to school to achieve teacher status, so he could teach his own employees.
In all his years, he knew one painter that had lead poisoning, and it was from years of painting and doing what you are doing with no respirator.

I would be very careful who you ask for advice locally and your actions, clean it up the best you can. You tell a city inspector about this and they will condemn your house as a toxic waste site. Charge you thousands of dollars to clean it up, same time the waste will just be dumped into a local dump.
The requirement is, you put the lead paint debris from demo into a plastic bag.
You then do a certain knot on that bag to close it up called a goose neck, then the knot tells the garbage man it contains lead and to not open it.
As they toss it in the city truck and use the crusher to compact the load and the plastic sack gets ripped open. ... yeah right. 

According to my instructor, we still use lead based paint today in commercial applications.
The reason for the lead was they could make the paint last longer with the more lead that was added.
Old barns were very common to be red, not because it was a popular color, with red, they could add more lead to it and it would last longer then other colors.
San Francisco bridge was one example for lead paint today, painters 365 days a year minus Holidays, they use lead based paint and start at one end and by the time they get to the other end, is time to start over.
Elevator shafts in high rise buildings, we still use lead paint, just not allowed in residential.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

I highly doubt you were exposed to enough to get lead poisoning.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

I'd be surprised if you were exposed to enough to get a sniffle from the dust, let alone lead poisoning.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lead poisoning is a very real concern which is why the EPA has called for abating it properly. I too doubt you took in enough to get any sort of acute poisoning but if in doubt, you should ask your doctor.

Kids are more susceptible to lead paint poisoning because they are smaller and concentrations will be higher than the same amount taken in by an adult---they just have less blood flowing to dillute it. And, it does have a sweet taste so they tend to chew it because it tastes good. 

The main dangers are not so much acute poisoning from paint chips but the cumulative effects of heavy metals in the human system. Of course all the paint chips that have leached lead into the environment over the years now comes back to haunt us too. While the paint chips from a single home may pose no great freestanding risk, once you get an entire neighborhood or municipality leaching heavy metals into runoff or down into groundwater it does become environmentally significant and dangerous.

Same with any heavy metals and things like mercury. It is not so much that the metals in your personal electronics or the mercury switches that were in your car or in your CFL light bulbs were going to change the planet but when you start talking millions landfilled electronic components, car switches and light bulbs it becomes an issue.


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## RoughDraft (Jun 10, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who replied. I just got back from getting blood drawn, and it apparently has to be sent to a lab in Utah(!) for the lead testing. If anyone is curious, I'll follow up with the results when they come back later in the week.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

It will be negative, no doubt about it.


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## Big Poppa (Jun 3, 2013)

Yup. You're way over thinking it. You'll be fine.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

For all you did I wouldn't worry about it if it was in an enclosed room let alone outside. I think everyone on here but you already knows the result.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I really love these topics. Even better are the ones, are Asbestos and the Radon scares. Most people do not realize, that we breathe in more toxins by walking out of our front doors, going into hardware or farm & home stores, going into work, than we do working on our homes, through our lives.

I was born when they were still doing Nuclear bomb testing, my father was stationed in areas that there was massive fallout from the Pacific bomb testing in the 40's, he is still around and in his 70's.

Even those of us that survived the fallout from Chernobyl as it went around the planet, or even worse, the massive release of nuclear radioactivity from Japan a couple of years back, have taken in more isotopes from those two, than our parents did as kids, for those who had parents born in the late 30's, early 40's.

My wife's grandmother is in her mid 90's, and still around. So those who are scared about a little bit of lead paint, asbestos, radon, really should open up their eyes, for what they have survived through.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

man or man, haven't heard radon for awhile and gregzoll is right on, even without the air we breath, just think about all the stuff you eat and drink everyday, THAT should give you nightmares.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Government, seventy-two, average Joe, zero.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Thought of something some of you may not know about. 

Watch dials that could glow in the dark were a big deal, first in the military and then as, of course high fashion. There was a US watch factory that hired "Radium Girls" to sit with tiny detail brushes and paint watch dials. They of course did their nails and and went out clubbing and all. And, come on guys, wouldn't you even today be attracted to some young woman with glow in the dark capabilities?

Anyhow, the substance used to paint the dials was radioactive radium. Expose your watch dial to some sunlight and it would glow when it got dark. 

Anyhow, the radium girls used tiny photo retouch type brushes to paint watch dials and were paid quite well for the work. They would shape the bristles so the could needle tip paint the dials. Effects were cummulative. None fared so well long term though.

http://waterburyobserver.org/node/586

And Jeeze Louise Professor Joe. Not everything is a government plot! Sometimes we just plain screw up or refuse to act responsibly. No matter which side is in power, this triggers need for government action that many endorse at first. "We" ask the government to step in and do what we should have thought out in the first place.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

RoughDraft said:


> To preface this--I'm a hypochondriac. But I think I may have good reason to be concerned this time around.


Do you get your fruits and vegatables from a grocery store? You're taking in way more toxic stuff from there than you did with the paint.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Don't forget the big radiation scare till they found out there was more being emitted from smoke alarms than what they were talking about. Does anyone remember when the asbestos thing started and everyone panicked they shut down schools and hospitals to remove it. Then after awhile someone figured out they killed and harmed more people than if they had left it alone and not made it airborne.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ToolSeeker said:


> Don't forget the big radiation scare till they found out there was more being emitted from smoke alarms than what they were talking about. Does anyone remember when the asbestos thing started and everyone panicked they shut down schools and hospitals to remove it. Then after awhile someone figured out they killed and harmed more people than if they had left it alone and not made it airborne.


I remember sitting in the classroom every day for four years, with a section of Asbestos impregnated paper covering torn apart by kids over the years, and I am still fine.


Even on board our ship, we still had areas that had asbestos covering on steam piping, that was left alone, nothing happened to any of us.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Ever changed your own brake pads on your car? Asbestos there too.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

Most of the hysteria surrounding lead, and lead paint is overblown bs, there's only 2 ways lead enters the body- via mouth and via the nose, you had a respirator on, I assume you didn't chew any paint chips, and washed your hands before eating, problem solved.
It's not going to jump up off the porch and penetrate your skin and kill you!
As long as you were 1) OUTDOORS, and 2) not creating massive amounts of dust by using a power belt sander trying to abrade through 500 square feet of 14 layers of lead paint you will be fine.
There isn't an older house around that doesn't have lead paint contaminated soil all around the foundation wall from old peeled/scraped paint falling there too.




> My wife's grandmother is in her mid 90's, and still around. So those who are scared about a little bit of lead paint, asbestos, radon, really should open up their eyes, for what they have survived through.


Lead and radon are both overblown bs, asbestos is a totally different story as discussed in other threads- the microscopic razor sharp particles once breathed in do not just "go away" nor does the body break it down, it stays there for the rest of your life with the razor sharp edges constantly irritating and damaging the delicate lung tissues- the ones you need to breathe with. It is that constant irritation and damage which sparks cancer, and/or a condition where the scarring from the irritation and damage continues to grow and reducing lung capacity.
It is the scarring- the lung tissue reaction to the irritation that causes inflamation, fluid build up etc and reduced capacity- what you see in coal miner's lung and other lung diseases caused by damage.

There is NO known "safe" amount of asbestos to breathe, and just like one person can smoke 14 packs of cigarettes and drink 2 six packs of beer a day and live to be 104 while their own brother a non-smoker, non drinker dies of cancer or liver failure in their 30s- everyone has a different level of tolerance, some lots more than others, the trouble is there's no test to determine this factor, so just because a person sprayed asbestos all over ship hulls 7 days a week 16 hours a day for 50 years and slept on a bed lined with asbestos sheets and lives to be 102 in perfect health, doesn't mean someone else can tolerate even 1/1000th that exposure without medical problems.

If the day comes they develop a susceptability test and you can see on the results something like "high resistance to mesothelioma" or something like that, then you can line your whole hose with asbestos insulation and sleep comfortably knowing you are safe, but till such a test is developed assume you might be one of the susceptable people and know that there is NO known safe amount of asbestos to breathe in, and take steps to ensure you avoid it.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

Overblown, of course. BS? Not really. 

Lead paint is dangerous... mostly to children, because they can eat it and are small. The lengths they've decided we need to go to clean it up are kind of BS -- certainly people who deal with it day in and day out shoudl be careful, but one incident isn't going to do a damn thing to you.

And radon.... it increases your risk of cancer, which is bad, but so do a million other things. If you can mitigate a potential cause of cancer, shouldn't you? I would say yes.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

TheBobmanNH said:


> Overblown, of course. BS? Not really.
> 
> Lead paint is dangerous... mostly to children, because they can eat it and are small. The lengths they've decided we need to go to clean it up are kind of BS -- certainly people who deal with it day in and day out shoudl be careful, but one incident isn't going to do a damn thing to you.
> 
> And radon.... it increases your risk of cancer, which is bad, but so do a million other things. If you can mitigate a potential cause of cancer, shouldn't you? I would say yes.


And so is getting in your car, taking a drive, or boarding a plane to take a flight. Bob, you are over blowing it, like most out there.

Yes, there is a danger if children eat paint chips, but that is also because you have bad parenting, that do not teach their kids to not eat them.

As for Radon, even after 20 plus years, there is no viable proof that Radon is the main cause of lung cancer, so really unless you have proof that Radon increases the risk of cancer, not some government study, or some document from a mitigation/scam company, it is just FUD.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

Look, I'm on your side here as far as being afraid of everything and overregulating minor risks, but pounding your chest and saying it's not at ALL a concern is silly. Don't listen to the people who stand to profit, and use common sense. Lead poisoning is a real, demonstrable thing that you could CONCEIVABLY get from lead paint if you eat or inhale enough of it. I think that one sentence is probably enough of a warning (ie, we can ditch the 19 pages of forms we have to fill out to sell a house, etc).

As for radon... I don't know what you mean "main cause" of cancer. Most things that are carcinogenic simply increase your risk of developing cancer. Since a solid ~50% of us are going to contract cancer in our lifetimes, I'd say little things you can do to possibly lower that number are good? Maybe? And there aren't that many health studies that aren't in some way government sponsored so ... you're being a little unrealistic. I don't see any data that says it's NOT carcinogenic (unless you're the type who doesn't believe cigarettes are dangerous either, in which case we can kindly go our own ways now), so why wouldn't you want to at least be mindful of it?

I agree that there are those out there who overreact to things, and government regulation in the name of safety is more often in the name of making a little extra money for inspections or just pandering to public overreaction. But going the other way and ignoring potential health risks because someone exaggerated them doesn't make any sense at all. No one said "avoid all risks," just use common sense when taking risks. To go with your analogy of driving being a risky endeavor, getting your house checked for radon is like checking the tire pressure in your car, not avoiding driving altogether. Telling people to be careful of lead paint is like telling them "dont' sit in a closed garage with your car running."


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

gregzoll said:


> And so is getting in your car, taking a drive, or boarding a plane to take a flight. Bob, you are over blowing it, like most out there.
> 
> Yes, there is a danger if children eat paint chips, but that is also because you have bad parenting, that do not teach their kids to not eat them.
> 
> As for Radon, even after 20 plus years, there is no viable proof that Radon is the main cause of lung cancer, so really unless you have proof that Radon increases the risk of cancer, not some government study, or some document from a mitigation/scam company, it is just FUD.


Perhaps you fail to consider the concerns for children regarding airborne particles of stuff like asbestos or lead. It's not just 'eating paint chips', it's also about swiping their little handles across all manner of surfaces and eventually ingesting what's on their fingers. 

There are few things that most of us will ever be exposed to that have been "proven" to be a direct cause of cancers. Sure, some stuff is readily identifiable as causing illnesses. But quite often it's a very hard to prove set of coincidences. Given that, one might sensibly draw the conclusion that avoiding things known to contribute to cancer is worthwhile. Or just rail against it as if there was some grand conspiracy to do, I dunno, "something" to otherwise make life difficult for the whingers.

The other factor for avoiding lead has been the reduction of violent crime. Paint wasn't the sole factor there, it's use as a gasoline additive was a lot worse. That and the costs to remove it safely are a whole lot less than the potential benefits to be gained. Spend a little now and save quite a lot more over the long run.

So what's the sensible plan here? Do you understand the wisdom in the old saying 'penny wise but pound foolish' as it applies here? Spend the little money now on eliminating the risks properly and save a LOT more in the long run through better health and safety. 

What's better parenting here? Logic or folklore?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

TheBobmanNH said:


> Look, I'm on your side here as far as being afraid of everything and overregulating minor risks, but pounding your chest and saying it's not at ALL a concern is silly. Don't listen to the people who stand to profit, and use common sense. Lead poisoning is a real, demonstrable thing that you could CONCEIVABLY get from lead paint if you eat or inhale enough of it. I think that one sentence is probably enough of a warning (ie, we can ditch the 19 pages of forms we have to fill out to sell a house, etc).
> 
> As for radon... I don't know what you mean "main cause" of cancer. Most things that are carcinogenic simply increase your risk of developing cancer. Since a solid ~50% of us are going to contract cancer in our lifetimes, I'd say little things you can do to possibly lower that number are good? Maybe? And there aren't that many health studies that aren't in some way government sponsored so ... you're being a little unrealistic. I don't see any data that says it's NOT carcinogenic (unless you're the type who doesn't believe cigarettes are dangerous either, in which case we can kindly go our own ways now), so why wouldn't you want to at least be mindful of it?
> 
> I agree that there are those out there who overreact to things, and government regulation in the name of safety is more often in the name of making a little extra money for inspections or just pandering to public overreaction. But going the other way and ignoring potential health risks because someone exaggerated them doesn't make any sense at all. No one said "avoid all risks," just use common sense when taking risks. To go with your analogy of driving being a risky endeavor, getting your house checked for radon is like checking the tire pressure in your car, not avoiding driving altogether. Telling people to be careful of lead paint is like telling them "dont' sit in a closed garage with your car running."


I do not know where you got your facts from. You have a higher risk in stubbing or breaking a digit or body part, than you do of contracting some form of cancer.

Better go recheck your facts on those percentages.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

Sorry, I was a little high. It's 44.8% for males and 38.1% for females.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer



> The information is from the US National Cancer Institute’s Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results (SEER) Database, and is based on incidence and mortality data for the United States from 2007 through 2009, the most current years for which data are available.
> 
> ....
> These numbers are average risks for the overall US population. Your risk may be higher or lower than these numbers, depending on your particular risk factors.


I'm sure the American Cancer Society is on your list of FUD organizations.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

gregzoll said:


> I do not know where you got your facts from. You have a higher risk in stubbing or breaking a digit or body part, than you do of contracting some form of cancer.
> 
> Better go recheck your facts on those percentages.


If you're going to cite numbers, back up your claim on your suggestions. 

Sure, to you that might sound more accurate. But then people believe all sorts of nonsense that isn't backed up with proof.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

yea like getting lead from wiping your fingers across paint.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

TheBobmanNH said:


> Sorry, I was a little high. It's 44.8% for males and 38.1% for females.
> 
> http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer
> 
> ...


Actually they are, because they have been fudging their numbers for years, along with half the reason there is such a large scare on Radon being so much more dangerous then it actually is.

If AL can use numbers not facts to scare people to change their habits, they are loosing ground, because it sure is not working for smokers.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

wkearney99 said:


> If you're going to cite numbers, back up your claim on your suggestions.
> 
> Sure, to you that might sound more accurate. But then people believe all sorts of nonsense that isn't backed up with proof.


What, like the fact that you two are throw nonsensical information out there as scare tactics. Talk about making a molehill into a mountain.

I am more afraid of a driver in my town running into me, as I cross the street, then living in a 75 plus year old home, that still has Asbestos on some of the duct work, no Radon mitigation in my basement, and Lead paint under the many coats of Latex.

Should I also repeat that I have lived through two Nuclear isotope releases, along with being born like most of us, while not only our country, but many others doing Nuclear testing, which the fallout from those went across the globe more than once.

We get bombarded daily by X-rays & Gamma Radiation all day long, work in offices that are so tight, that the air is toxic.

Now we have two people on a forum, trying to state that everything we all have been doing, is wrong and we now need to listen to you two, than using our better judgement.

Sorry, I am going to take my risks, and continue to live life like I have been, in my house with Radon, Asbestos, Lead, some mold in the walls, breathing heavy doses of Pet dander also.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

What YOU might be afraid of doesn't change what's been shown to actually BE harmful. Trying to dodge the argument with something entirely unrelated is ridiculous.

You're free to dig your own grave however you'd like. 

Just don't expect others who know better to stand idly by when you try to encourage others to believe the same nonsense.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

wkearney99 said:


> What YOU might be afraid of doesn't change what's been shown to actually BE harmful. Trying to dodge the argument with something entirely unrelated is ridiculous.
> 
> You're free to dig your own grave however you'd like.
> 
> Just don't expect others who know better to stand idly by when you try to encourage others to believe the same nonsense.


Do not know where you are getting that I am afraid of stuff. Again, a person has more of a chance getting hit by a car while out for a walk, falling down stairs, slipping in the bath or Kitchen, then they do of getting Cancer from Radon, Asbestos, or Lead Poisoning, from being in a pre-1970 home.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> yea like getting lead from wiping your fingers across paint.



they make it sound like just seeing a PICTURE of lead paint will give you lead poisoning, that's the degree of hysteria on this.
Geez, how many of our older family members as kids in the 20s, 30s and 40s had nothing but metal toys painted with LEAD paint over red lead primer? their cribs even had lead paint not to mention sharp edges, no safety screens etc, gasoline was full of lead too, their homes and bedrooms were painted with lead based oil paint giving them not only the lead exposture but the fumes for days, and yet they survived and lived long lives and give birth to all of us sitting here today.

Lead is not some alien substance from mars it's a naturally occurring metal found all over the planet, just don't eat it and don't lick your fingers after soldering with it and you'll be fine.
Lead certainly is toxic, but then so is clorox, ammonia, drain cleaner, bug spray, suntan lotion, WD40 and all the rest of the chemicals and substances we use in the home every day, but the labels all say the same thing- do not EAT or DRINK, and wash your hands after use.

Anyone know the hairsprays used by most women, and some men have (or had) formaldehyde, the stuff used to embalm bodies and is extremely toxic? yet people spray that stuff all over their head every day and breathe in the fumes!

A spash of drain cleaner or lye getting in your eyes can cause blindness, that is worse than a little lead, and like the lead the precaution is- don't EAT or DRINK it, and wash your hands after contact, use sensible precautions when working with it but don't get PARANOID.

Where I work people are handling lead and it's alloys all day long, they go for periodic blood tests and have never had an elevated level, that's despite cutting, trimming, filing, drilling, bending, planing on a milling machine, handling, cleaning, polishing and soldering sheet lead and lead-tin alloys. They even periodically melt the scraps of the stuff in a small gas furnace and pour it into ingots.

I swear, we have the kind of paranoia and arguments in the ceramics trade over glazes, clay, and kilns and we have the same few percentage of people there who go way overboard on their fear and paranoia to the point where they can no longer function and give up the craft because they are absolutely convinced they'll die of lead poisoning from brushing a lead glaze on a vase with a BRUSH.


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## wrangler (Oct 9, 2008)

I have to agree about how overblown the whole "Lead Poisoned Society" has become. Even the "Lead Safety for Renovation, Repair, and Painting Course" that I was 'required' to attend in Alabama/Florida seemed like it was more of the result of asking a bunch of 4th graders how to reduce the exposure to lead than the result of a qualified panel of experts. I had many concerns about what was even addressed in this process:

1) After two cleanings on smooth flooring, if the 'test' swipe (basically a clorox clean-up wipe) was still darker than the base comparison (a white piece of paper) then it does not matter... you are done...

2) Making a hole smaller than 6 square feet does not meet the need for lead mitigation. So, if you are cutting air ducts 6" x 12" (well under 6 sq ft) nothing needs to be done. No matter how many holes you are cutting. This exemption, and all exemptions, do not apply to the window industry? I can only assume that there must have been some contractor involved in this process, but also that this same contractor had no clue as to how to remove a wood window (because most other windows would not apply) with a minimum of debris. At least the way the class was presented to me, it seemed as if they felt that wood window removal resulted in lead paint flying everywhere. Necessitating the need to require the installers to cordon off 20' outside in all directions, 10' inside in all directions, taping off all outlets, ducts, or any orifice and cutting off the a/c and securing the room with double sheets of plastic, evacuation of the home-owners and wearing hazmat suits and N100 respirators not to mention what was required for the disposal of said materials after each install. (Not a fun prospect in Florida in the summer).

3) The fine for a first time violation at the time was $70,000. But as of this post, there is no actual point of contact in my local area for inspections or enforcement. 

4) I was born in 1962 and as you can imagine so were most of my siblings and friends, yet until this became an EPA mandate, I had never heard of this terrible scourge that was overwhelming this country that threatened to shut down any business that did not comply or had workers that were not trained and records kept. (Well, in the EPA's defense, I did have parents that did not allow me to chew on the window sills or lick the carpets) and yet we still live with a modicum of brain damage!

But I digress. Did I mention that Red Snapper season in Florida has been extended 14 days? Come on down and we'll have a great time!


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

funfool said:


> Save the panic for later.
> Seems you did everything correctly, the respirator is a nice touch.
> I am not going to blow sunshine up your you know what, say it is harmless.
> I have gone through the 8 hour course and am certified and licensed to remove lead paint.
> ...


Its called the _*Golden Gate*_

The sun setting in the west hitting the red lead paint makes it look golden.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

The RRP regulations to me are pretty simple. Don't make dust, and if you do clean it up safely. 
The details are guide lines to how to do this. Some are over blown no doubt, but safe practices have to be defined somehow.

I just don't think they are all that unreasonable. Or difficult. The gov says it will cost 15-20% more to comply on an average job. My first by the book, lead safe job cost more like 25% more. It was the exterior of a day care, in a converted 1920's house. 

I don't even want to think about how many lead houses I scraped and power sanded with little more protection than a dust mask (If that). And yes, I'm still alive. 

It's just not that big of a deal, or an expense IMO, to not take a chance of poisoning myself or others. I don't think anyone is saying lead poisoning is a myth, or that it doesn't happen to real people.
And if its superfluous in a given Situation, I just roll my eyes and put up the plastic. I mean, we have to wear seat belts too. And you aren't even allowed to smoke in restaurants. I can accept not being allowed to create poison dust how ever I want.


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## wrangler (Oct 9, 2008)

Have you taken the course??? If so, then it apparently does not apply to you as a painter as it does to others, like I said, those replacing windows. 25% increase in cost is not even close to some jobs, especially the wood window replacements I mentioned above. Try more like 200-400%. The steps I mentioned in my post apply to EVERY room. After replacing even one window in a room, all materials used then need to be 'goose neck tied' and disposed of in an EPA approved manner. Instead of a 15 minute window removal and replacement, you are talking about over an hour of prep, the short window R&R, then the clean-up and testing. Granted that not all jobs even fall into a lead abatement situation, but to think that it is a mere nuisance is naive. I left that course thinking I should invest in blue tape and plastic sheeting!
Done right, it changes doing a small 7 room, 15 window house from a half day job to a 4 day job costing 7 times the labor plus the expense of the blue tape, sheeting and disposal fees. Done correctly, none of the exclusion materials are to be reused from room-to-room, but must be disposed of as hazardous waste.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

The class I took was geared to painting contractors. So I don't know the margins on window replacement. 

The first one of these jobs I did blew over budget and I lost a shirt sleeve (not the whole shirt).
Finding some efficiencies, and some more creative ways to deal with lead have helped me to trim these overages to manageable levels.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

wrangler said:


> I did have parents that did not allow me to chew on the window sills or lick the carpets) and yet we still live with a modicum of brain damage!


Oh darn, mine let me chew the window sills, carpet, drink the drain cleaner, put those dangerous plastic bags over my head, stick my finger in the light socket, ride the hood of the moving car, open all the non safety cap pill bottles, and all that fun stuff and I'm still alive 

Actually, I was just reminded of a rental house we lived in in Florida around 1969 that had a crazy electric system, I can remember a friend and I stripping and old lamp cord and plugging it in in this little room in the garage and touching the two wires together to make sparks, we'd do that all the time and it NEVER blew a fuse or anything!


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> What, like the fact that you two are throw nonsensical information out there as scare tactics. Talk about making a molehill into a mountain.


For pete's sake, you're being ridiculous and putting words into everyone's mouth.

No one here is trying to scare ANYONE : why would we?? I work with computers, I don't sell radon mitigation systems. I have said multiple times, in this thread (I know you don't like to read science or fact but at least read what you're replying to), that I think most of the regulation and hysteria over lead and asbestos and radon is overblown.

Overblown does NOT mean that they are not AT ALL risks, it means they are EXAGGERATED. Lead paint is not going to come off of your walls and give you lead poisoning in the night like a bogeyman, it doesn't mean you should put it on your Cheerios. Radon in most homes is a non-issue, but if you're in a high-risk area should you ignore it? Educating people (at least, those that dont' childishly refuse to be educated, ahem) is not the same as fear-mongering. 



> I am more afraid of a driver in my town running into me, as I cross the street, then living in a 75 plus year old home, that still has Asbestos on some of the duct work, no Radon mitigation in my basement, and Lead paint under the many coats of Latex.


So am I. So is everyone. Where in this thread did anyone say you had to be MORE afraid of any of this stuff than real-life day-to-day fears? I live in a 120-year old home with all of the same things you have, and asbestos siding to boot. Old homes generally don't need radon mitigation because their basements are so pourous, btw.



> Should I also repeat that I have lived through two Nuclear isotope releases, along with being born like most of us, while not only our country, but many others doing Nuclear testing, which the fallout from those went across the globe more than once.
> 
> We get bombarded daily by X-rays & Gamma Radiation all day long, work in offices that are so tight, that the air is toxic.


I can't imagine how any of that is relevant to the conversation. Again, just focusing on the radon argument for a second... if it increases your risk of cancer in ANY WAY and is preventable, how is it a bad to at least let people know? Yes, there are a million other things ALL AROUND US eVERY DAY that are most likely carcinogenic, probably even MORE carcinogenic than radon. But you can't control most of them. You can't avoid smog or pollution from cars, at least not reasonably. You CAN avoid radon on the off chance it's an issue in your home, so why wouldn't you want to reduce your odds of cancer from 35% to 34% or something? Sure it's a tiny amount, but it's still something, and for what, the cost of a frigging fan in your basement?



> Now we have two people on a forum, trying to state that everything we all have been doing, is wrong and we now need to listen to you two, than using our better judgement.


No one - not ONE PERSON here - said anything like that, and I personally resent the implication. You're being a paranoid delusional. I DO believe in education, and letting people use THEIR BETTER JUDGEMENT with all of the facts, not just some old sense of "I'm a man and these things don't hurt me." Similarly I don't think cigarettes should be outlawed, but I think people should know that they give you cancer. After that, it's up to them.



> Sorry, I am going to take my risks, and continue to live life like I have been, in my house with Radon, Asbestos, Lead, some mold in the walls, breathing heavy doses of Pet dander also.


Same here. But if someone asks me whether radon is a carcinogen, I'm not going to say "only if you're a wuss." If someone asks if lead paint is dangerous, I'm not going to say "only if you're a bad parent," I'd point them to actual facts and let them make their own INFORMED decision. How is that a bad thing? I have lead paint in my home, no doubt. I know the risks of that ( being childless, basically none), and am fine with those risks. If someone told me I had to get all the lead paint out of my house, I'd be whizzed off because it's unnecessary. But no one is telling me that, and no one is telling you to change the way you live.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Bob, you and wkearney are the one's running around like Chicken Little, telling everyone that they are going to fall over dead, the minute the walk into a building that has Radon, Asbestos or Lead paint.

Really, I have managed to live this long by using my own judgement, I really do not need those like you, telling me as if you are the government, that they know better than my own personal instinct.

If people stooped to you or the government, because you say so, no one would get anything done, along with die quicker.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Nobody's running around like chicken little. Unless you want to count your own behavior. It's you that's running around insisting there's nothing to worry about and that everyone else is out to get you.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Bob, you and wkearney are the one's running around like Chicken Little, telling everyone that they are going to fall over dead, the minute the walk into a building that has Radon, Asbestos or Lead paint.
> 
> Really, I have managed to live this long by using my own judgement, I really do not need those like you, telling me as if you are the government, that they know better than my own personal instinct.
> 
> If people stooped to you or the government, because you say so, no one would get anything done, along with die quicker.


Look... you're either a brilliant troll or completely incapable of reading. Neither of us said anything of the sort, and I tried my best to outline that in my last post, long-winded though it was. 

Since you're not reading my posts at all, I don't know why I'm even bothering to type this. Please continue doing whatever you want, as I have said at least 5 times.

To everyone else - educate yourself (please use science, not greg's gut instincts, to do so) and then make whatever decisions you feel are best for you and your family based on, you know, science.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

wkearney99 said:


> Nobody's running around like chicken little. Unless you want to count your own behavior. It's you that's running around insisting there's nothing to worry about and that everyone else is out to get you.


Excuse me. Sorry, but I am not the two getting my panties in a bunch over this.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

TheBobmanNH said:


> Look... you're either a brilliant troll or completely incapable of reading. Neither of us said anything of the sort, and I tried my best to outline that in my last post, long-winded though it was.
> 
> Since you're not reading my posts at all, I don't know why I'm even bothering to type this. Please continue doing whatever you want, as I have said at least 5 times.
> 
> To everyone else - educate yourself (please use science, not greg's gut instincts, to do so) and then make whatever decisions you feel are best for you and your family based on, you know, science.


Bob, I stopped reading your posts after you kept going on about the dangers of being around stuff, that most of us have been around for over 40 years, and still show no signs of any cause from effect.

I would say that you and Kearney are the two making this more than it is.


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## TheBobmanNH (Oct 23, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Bob, I stopped reading your posts after you kept going on about the dangers of being around stuff, that most of us have been around for over 40 years, and still show no signs of any cause from effect.
> 
> I would say that you and Kearney are the two making this more than it is.


Didn't do anything of the sort. Thanks for admitting you won't even read other people's opinions on the subject when trying to debate with them, let alone actual science. "Well, I'm fine" is not how statistics work. I'm in my 30's, therefore SIDS is not a real issue?


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> Bob, you and wkearney are the one's running around like Chicken Little, telling everyone that they are going to fall over dead, the minute the walk into a building that has Radon, Asbestos or Lead paint.


There is big bucks behind the remediation movement, as dangerous as asbestos is, LEAVING IT IN PLACE INTACT but encapsulated and seld up is the best course of action, not pulling out walls and ceilings and contaminating everything, the street out front, the truck and the landfill too with it.
The paranoia had counties ripping out intact steam pipe coverings and the like in schools that had been there for decades, and no one will convince me that some plastic sheets ducttaped over the doorway, and a couple of hired goons working for some company are going to do every job perfectly 100% of the time or even care. They get their money for the job and adios to you, and you only HOPE they got it all and cleaned up 100% and didn't accidently drop a bag of the dust in your carpet while you were at work, and then vacuumed it up quickly so you wouldn't know.

Same with lead paint, instead of contaminating the whole room, the truck outside, the street and the landfill by removing it, you encapsulate it and paint over it or seal it up. If you have kids DONT buy that 1890 Victorian fixer upper house with the 37 layers of lead paint on everything!


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Its called the _*Golden Gate*_


The Golden Gate is the strait that connects San Francisco Bay and the Pacific Ocean. The Golden Gate Bridge, crosses the Golden Gate (strait).

The name has nothing to do with the color of the paint on the bridge.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

> *Forum Posting Rules:*
> Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on DIYChatroom.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.


I think this thread has run its course and is now closed.
If OP wants to come back and post his test results he can start a new thread.


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