# Sub is swapping Amana for Goodman



## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Dragon

Goodman and Amana are the same company. However thank your contractor for swapping the Goodman for the Amana. The Amana equipment has twice the warranty that the Goodman version does. They are both about the same in quality, "cheap".

Good luck
Rusty


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## Dragon (Aug 1, 2006)

Carrierman,
I think you got my post backwards.

The original bid said they were going to put in Amana but what they are actually putting in now is Goodman.

So from your post I take it that the Amana has double the warranty of Goodman? Is this correct?

Does that translate into the Amana being the more expensive brand versus the Goodman?

Thanks....


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## hennyh (Nov 14, 2006)

Did he do a manual J load calc. prior to the bid? You never guess at capacity!!

I'd suggest you raise the issue with the contractor. If you need 2.5 ton but the bid said 3.5 he owes you money. If you really need to 3.5 ton unit and got a 2.5 ton unit you'll never be satisfied with it's performance.

I'd also make sure you aren't shortchanged any warranty differences.

Your right to get all this straightened out now.


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## Christopher (Dec 7, 2006)

Gary,

Contract issues aside, the most common error in HVAC installations is installing a heating/cooling unit that is too large for the space being conditioned.

...Christopher


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Dragon

I missed part of the original post. I am not sure why your sub contractor is doing what he is doing. As far as Goodman verses Amana, the Amana usually has a better warranty than the Goodman. The thing that threw the red flag for me is what hennyh discovered. Why would he bid one size and install another. This tells me he is either a fly by nighter or just an idiot. What will happen if you are general, when the equipment does not perform properly do to undersizing. You will get the finacial and the reputation problem of the new homeowner. As far as apples to oranges or Goodman to Amana that will be the least of your worries with this one. Make him stand up to his end of the contract, or fire him and get someone that will. Don't let this become your problem.

Good luck
Rusty


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## Furnace_dude (Jan 18, 2007)

#CARRIERMAN said:


> Hi Dragon
> 
> Goodman and Amana are the same company. However thank your contractor for swapping the Goodman for the Amana. The Amana equipment has twice the warranty that the Goodman version does. They are both about the same in quality, "cheap".
> 
> ...


 
actually, goodman has become quite a competitor in the hvac industry, yeah, they are affordable but they use copeland compressors made here in sidney ohio in the great USA, not that bristol [email protected], goodmans new furnaces use amana heat exchangers and the units have one of the best warranties on the market!

http://www.djsonline.com/goodmanvstrane.htm

the link is safe:thumbsup:


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## #CARRIERMAN (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi Dragon

Furnace dude is correct, Goodman company has come a long way. I was basing my opinion off of the knowledge of the equipment. We sell the Amana version as our builders model. When you set it beside a Carrier there is a day and night difference in quality. The Goodman version is a lot cheaper built than a Carrier. The outer casing on the Goodman built equipment is a thin aluminum and the screws strip out the first time you tighten them, Carrier is about 24 gauge metal. That was why I made that response, I don't mean to sound as though I am bad mouthing, I was just stating a fact. Sorry if I said anything that was inappropriate.

Rusty


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## Furnace_dude (Jan 18, 2007)

ive never had a problem with stripping screws out on a goodman but nothing wrong was said


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## Dragon (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. Here is what I have learned.

I addressed the issue with my builders project manager for our house. He did not know what was going either and also wanted to know what was happening.

The answer received back from the HVAC contractor was that they initially bid the house at the maximum level for equipment that they feel may be required. He explained that they do this because the builders demand a reply and turn around on the quote in a short period of time. By biding at the maximum that may be needed for the job they are covered when they have the time to work all the calculations and determine the appropriate system. In my case it is smaller and I will be seeing a credit reflected in their final billing. What they do not want to do is bid it too low and then have to upcharge on the backend because their initial estimate was incorrect. It would have been nice if that was explanined up front.

Maybe it is a load of "you know what" but at least I am going to be seeing the $$$ in my pocket and it won't just dissapear somewhere. I wonder how many never see that credit come back to them?

As to the difference between the two systems. They stated that the warranty between them was exactly the same. I think I am going to ask for that in writing however.....

The crews on the jobsite are very professional and the installation of the equipment looks to be very good. Not that I am an expert but even a layman can see when someone takes the time to do a job properly and make sure things fit togethery cleanly, etc. So at least I am not worried about that.

Thanks for the feedback. It has been a long haul getting this house built.


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## hennyh (Nov 14, 2006)

Dragon said:


> Thanks for the replies. Here is what I have learned.
> 
> I addressed the issue with my builders project manager for our house. He did not know what was going either and also wanted to know what was happening.
> 
> ...


I'd ask for a copy of all the detailed load calculations since he claimed he did them after the worst case bid was submitted. It could be legitimate but I still smell a rat.


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## zunk (Dec 29, 2006)

Actually they both have the same warranty- all equipment is 10 years parts, incl. the A/H. They newer warranty started Jan1. If you go to the SEER 16 units, it's a lifetime compressor. This is about as good a warranty as I've seen, which is why I'm getting a Goodman heat pump.
I'm curious though Carrierman, and I respect your opinion, what makes you say they're cheap? It seems to me the innards are very similar in most brands- they usually have the same Copeland comp., standard copper coils, PC boards made by a small number of contractors, none made in house. The rest isjust wiring and a cabinet. What is the factor that sets them apart? I have noticed when doing research for brands that all the contractors seem to have diiferent strong opinions on what is good and what's crap. There doesn't seem to be a consensus. It kind of reminds me of mechanics with preferences for motor oil.
I have read that the most important thing is not the equipment, but who and how it's installed. Do you agree with that? 
Thanks, Zunk


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## rjordan392 (Apr 28, 2005)

The Goodman brand seems to stick out the most when it comes to needing repairs more then others. But the reason may be because Goodman sells directly to the public and if the public does not understand HVAC theory and the install is wrong, then repairs will be frequent. I don't know if anyone is keeping a tally between professional installs vs homeowner installs when these units breakdown.


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## zunk (Dec 29, 2006)

rjordan392,
I agree. Goodman is one of the few that sells to independentsm most distributors won't even sell you a unit unless you're a contractor listed with them, even with the EPA CFC licence.
You can buy Goodman units at many internet dealers. That means a lot of DIYers, which translates to more bad installs. Other than that, they are the second biggest HP mfgr, and they have about the best warranty. That's why I decided to buy the unit and have a contractor install it. Hopefully I'm going the right way.


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## Furnace_dude (Jan 18, 2007)

zunk said:


> rjordan392,
> I agree. Goodman is one of the few that sells to independentsm most distributors won't even sell you a unit unless you're a contractor listed with them, even with the EPA CFC licence.
> You can buy Goodman units at many internet dealers. That means a lot of DIYers, which translates to more bad installs. Other than that, they are the second biggest HP mfgr, and they have about the best warranty. That's why I decided to buy the unit and have a contractor install it. Hopefully I'm going the right way.


 
i'd proudly install goodman products in my house!!!


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## rjordan392 (Apr 28, 2005)

Zunk,
Let the installer purchase the unit, a lot of installers will not touch a customer provided unit.


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## zunk (Dec 29, 2006)

Well, it's too late for that. I have purchased the HP. It's true though that most won't install anything but "their' brand. I guess it's familiarity and the markup factor. I found one to install mine, but he tried to talk me out of it. He of course will only warranty the job.
His price to just swap out a 2ton unit in a basement height crawl space was $3600. It would be a Carrier 13SEER,8.0HSPF w/Puron. To install my unit is total ~$3000, but that's with a 14SEER and 8.5HSPF Goodman. So it seems like a better deal, if he does it right-same skill and care he would for his Carrier units. Hopefully so. What do you think?
Zunk


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## rjordan392 (Apr 28, 2005)

As long as the Goodman model contains Puron, you should be ok. The older type AC charged units are being phased out and will be forbidden to service, I believe in about 5 to 7 years. I am not an HVAC, so check that out.


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## jbac (Jan 18, 2007)

co. i work for installs lots and lots of goodman systems eachm month in tennessee.and i mean lots.it has been cold here in tennessee for a while,yet our warrenty service is slow.Hmmmmmmm.


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## jbac (Jan 18, 2007)

co. i work for in tenn. installs lots of goodman systems each month.its been cold here in tn. and our warrenty calls are slow.Hmmmmm.


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## PATMAN (Dec 7, 2006)

Goodman is a very basic unit. Carrierman is right about the cabinets, they are cheaply built, they don't fit together and seal up very well.They're thinner metal and they vibrate more than other units. they usually don't have much protection, like high and low pressure switches etc.They have the long warranty because they had to do that to get people to buy them. You're right, installation is one of the most important things, but Goodman is a low-end unit.


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## zunk (Dec 29, 2006)

Well, Patman, are you sure you're not thinking of the old style cabinets? Until '06 they had the rod-style coil protection, now they have a complete steel louvered type, with solid corners. Looks about on par with the better units to me. The unit I have has a low press switch, which according to their ads they have always had.
Like I was saying, the component parts are identical or very similar in most of these brands, from a fairly small bunch of manufacturers.
But hey, I am certainly no expert or even a HVAC installer. You guys sure could be right, (I hope not!) I'll try to report back with any probs I might have.


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## jbac (Jan 18, 2007)

zunk,you are so right. all goodman hp haveloe pressure cut out.good quality has come a long way in a short time.:yes:


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