# Am I being too critical?



## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

Getting drywall hung/tapped and bullnose corner bead installed. The hanger didn't do too bad of a job, except for these.
























As far as I'm concerned, that's drywall 101, and I'm going to have him fix these.

Now for the corner bead. The guy that put the corner bead on (not the hanger) has been dry walling for 20+ years and claimed he has put a lot of bullnose up. 
























































My biggest concerns are these:

He used nails instead of spray adhesive.
the drywall is cut back too far in the corners leaving about 1/4" to 1/2" of overlap between drywall and mud flange in some places.
the bottom corner pieces are not installed at the same height (as if he eyeballed them).
mud flange is twisted and mangled in a lot of areas.

I've put bullnose up myself in other places in the house and been very happy with the result, but no one could stay in business at the pace I work. Am I being too critical of his work to this point, or is this looking like a bad install?

Thanks


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

looks mighty nasty to me


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

When finish mud is done most of those will be hidden but it's still a bad job.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Toolseeker is correct in my opinion.A bad job but can still finish out good if they have better finishers than hangers.I'm wondering why they left the casing on and gutted to it instead of removing it and doing it correct?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

After re-looking ending the drywall and putting those seams at the corners of the windows and the corner of any door is a guarantee you will get cracks. It's not if it's when. That is hanging 101. Also you don't put a seam in the middle of a door or window either. I don't see any but be aware.


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## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

> Also you don't put a seam in the middle of a door or window either.


I've never heard that one before!



> When finish mud is done most of those will be hidden but it's still a bad job.


I realize that the mud will hide it all, I'm just worried that every piece will wind up cracking. After the third warranty call I'll kill the guy when he shows up, that's if he ever shows up to the first warranty call. Would using hot mud instead of green lid be something to specify in this case, or would it be best to kick him to the curb and get a different finisher?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I rarely say this because usually there are 2 sides to a story but from the pics I think I would look for somebody else. Nails instead of glue isn't that bad. but the cuts and the alignment on the corners is bad. 

Bullnose is a different animal from regular corner bead and will show mistakes a lot more. It's really hard to tell in the pics but it doesn't look like the drywall is set back. Take a level and make sure it's straight. This will all show with bullnose.


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## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> I rarely say this because usually there are 2 sides to a story but from the pics I think I would look for somebody else. Nails instead of glue isn't that bad. but the cuts and the alignment on the corners is bad.
> 
> Bullnose is a different animal from regular corner bead and will show mistakes a lot more. It's really hard to tell in the pics but it doesn't look like the drywall is set back. Take a level and make sure it's straight. This will all show with bullnose.


That's the second thing I noticed was that the corners were badly mitered. A few are so bad that there is no way he is going to hide it with mud. The drywall is cut back, but too far in my opinion. I've cut flush with the stud and I've also shaved a square corner back with a rasp and both times the mud flange sat completely on top of drywall. This is cut so far back that at most half of the flange is sitting on drywall. My wife and I discussed this at length and after she told me about a few conversations she overheard the drywallers having this is what we've decided. He's already been called and told that no further work is to be done until we have a face to face meeting. We will demand that the joints overtop of the windows be fixed, all bullnose removed, the hammer damaged drywall be replaced, and new bullnose hung properly, at no charge to us. I'm sure he'll balk and at that point I'll tell him to walk. At that point we'll start looking for another drywaller, but be much more careful this time.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

As Phil Rizzuto used to say HOLY COW! Reminds me of the song 9 lb hammer. Apparently "finesse" is not in this guys vocabulary. I always hang drywall horizontal, and I just cut out for the doors and windows. I like cupped edges, so I buy the drywall to span the room, since it comes in so many sizes. Boy, this is rough.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Well.... I'm sure glad I'm not trying to finish that.... 

...matter of fact, you otta be glad also that I'm not finishing that.:laughing:

Good luck!!!!! You're gonna need it.

Best

BTW.... in answer to your question :*Am I being too critical?*

*NO..* I don't think so.... rock and beading is not cabinetry.... but I would be livid and using the F word with any sub that left that for my finisher.

This is a classic example and weakness of "specialazation",,, where one trade/job performs substandard work with the expectectation that the next trade will have to cover their deficiencies....


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

how come he didn't use the pre molded corner pieces ? the drywall can be worked with but would have done better with the bead work . they make a pre molded corner though like the bottom piece transition .


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

Trim tex is to use divergant staples plus adhisive. And i would with hold payment till fixed.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Seams on the corners of doors and Windows.

Nailing up the corner instead of glue and staples. 

Hacked up jacked up corners.

Gotta say that's a pretty nasty job. Did a blind guy with no thumbs do it?


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

Wow,
That's some job they did on the corner bead.

I remember watching guys use a tool to install metal corner bead and the thing looked absolutely perfect when they were done. I've also seen them done with nails and looked near perfect as well.

It looks like your guys not only would've bent the hell out of a metal corner bead, but they even beat the crap out of the drywall.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

chemman said:


> Now for the corner bead. The guy that put the corner bead on (not the hanger) has been dry walling for 20+ years and claimed he has put a lot of bullnose up.


Oh, if only I had a dollar for every guy who said he had a lot of experience who actually did a ****ty job.... well I don't know what I'd do exactly but I sure wouldn't be hanging around these forums any more! :laughing:

Practice doesn't make perfect, it just makes habits. He learned to do ****ty work 20 years ago and he's been doing it that way ever since, with nary an hour off to study or improve. So sad, yet so common.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm neither a professional drywall hanger, or mudder. I'm just a DIYer that has bought, renovated, and sold quite a few homes. 

But even I can see that that is not quality work. Yeah, a good mudder will make it look pretty good in the end, but I'm guessing it won't take long for it to crack & separate.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

DrHicks said:


> I'm neither a professional drywall hanger, or mudder. I'm just a DIYer that has bought, renovated, and sold quite a few homes.
> 
> But even I can see that that is not quality work. Yeah, a good mudder will make it look pretty good in the end, but I'm guessing it won't take long for it to crack & separate.


A _good_ mudder will use materials and methods that will keep it from cracking.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

ToolSeeker said:


> A _good_ mudder will use materials and methods that will keep it from cracking.


Regarding the pictures the OP shared... What materials would you use to keep it from cracking?


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

I'm just a DIYer but I'm thinking setting type compound.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Well, I just think using setting compound to make up for a sloppy install is not a good answer. You're right, it's stronger, but it should have been done right to begin with.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

jeffnc said:


> Well, I just think using setting compound to make up for a sloppy install is not a good answer. You're right, it's stronger, but it should have been done right to begin with.



Absolutely.


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

This looks like remodel work , house should be done settling twisting moving so if the taper uses common materials methods you most likely wont have any cracks . cracks are more associated with new construction .


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

oldrivers said:


> This looks like remodel work , house should be done settling twisting moving so if the taper uses common materials methods you most likely wont have any cracks . cracks are more associated with new construction .


Not true. Houses move every season. If you place a joint over a pivot area you will get a crack in a place that never had a crack before.

There are many reasons an established home can and will settle or develop cracks.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> Well, I just think using setting compound to make up for a sloppy install is not a good answer. You're right, it's stronger, but it should have been done right to begin with.


Of course it should have been done right, but it wasn't. Now it has to be fixed. The options are tear it out and lose the cost of the drywall, the labor to install it and the cost to replace both materials and labor.

Can it be fixed? yes Will it cost more than a regular tape job? yes Will it be cheaper than a tear out? yes Is this DIY? no.

Now to be honest I have made a couple assumptions here. 1. You have already paid the guy. That makes it very hard to get your money back. 2. The room is large enough that it is more than a few sheets of rock.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> Of course it should have been done right, but it wasn't. Now it has to be fixed.


OK so you are addressing the practical matter of how to proceed now.

1) What if everything were finished in setting compound.

2) Perhaps even Durabond over the high window and door joints. That stuff is like iron.

3) How about adding tape around the trim? Would there be enough room for the buildup? I was thinking maybe a layer of FibaFuse along with EasySand setting compound when mudding around the vinyl trim - that might work.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

When something like this happens is it possible to fight for a discount due to lower quality of work even if amazing taping is done?


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

cj133 said:


> When something like this happens is it possible to fight for a discount due to lower quality of work even if amazing taping is done?


By the looks of the drywall work you already got the discounted guy.

Low Bidder?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> OK so you are addressing the practical matter of how to proceed now.
> 
> 1) What if everything were finished in setting compound.
> 
> ...


Yes. Everything needs filled in with Dura Bond. This stuff is hard to work with and hard to sand. But will add a lot of strength. Then 2nd coat and to bury the tape I would use the Dura bond EZSand easier to work with and sand but still stronger than joint compound. As bad as some of these joint are some may need 2 coats of the EZSand. I would then add a finish coat with All Purpose compound. The Dura bond products tend to flash when painted and usually show small pin holes the AP will fill these in and give a better surface for paint.

The door and window seams I would cut the seams out a little, kind of vee them, then fill that with the Dura Bond, then tape and mud.

To be honest from what I see in the pics the bullnose bead is toast from the way it's cut. It most likely will have to be replaced. When it is removed you could tell better what will need done. And yes to use fiba fuse would certainly help I personally think it's a great product.

Again it's hard to tell from the pics, but as crooked as some of it looks you may need to use StraitFlex or NoCoat to straighten the corners and angles.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

jagans said:


> By the looks of the drywall work you already got the discounted guy.
> 
> Low Bidder?


Not me, I've never hired a low bidder in my life and still got a crap job.
That's why I do all of my own work now.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

cj133 said:


> When something like this happens is it possible to fight for a discount due to lower quality of work even if amazing taping is done?


This is a big job. Probably the only guy who would give you a discount is the guy that hung the drywall. Do you really want him to do it?

To finish drywall and do it right is a hard job and requires a lot of skill. This skill is obtained over years of doing it. A experienced taper, when done there is very little sanding to do. They go over their work with a bright light held at an angle to look for imperfections. 

A drywall contractor most likely will use a bazooka, mud boxes, nail spotters, compound tubes, flushers, angle heads and so on. In other words thousands of dollars worth of tools. There are some who still use a bread pan and knifes and these are OK but so slow. If you are going from house to house hanging and finishing 200 to say 500 sheets of drywall at a time the tools are a must.

Sorry got off topic some but the simple answer is no you probably won't get a discount.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> *This is a big job. Probably the only guy who would give you a discount is the guy that hung the drywall. Do you really want him to do it?*
> 
> To finish drywall and do it right is a hard job and requires a lot of skill. This skill is obtained over years of doing it. A experienced taper, when done there is very little sanding to do. They go over their work with a bright light held at an angle to look for imperfections.
> 
> ...


Back when my dad was working his record was 118 boards in one day working alone. That's cut and hung, not taped.

Honestly no, if it was mine I'd want him to rip it out and redo it properly without beating the crap out of the drywall and I'd want metal corner bead used this time.

A discount sounded more reasonable for the terrible job that was done.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

cj133 said:


> Back when my dad was working his record was 118 boards in one day working alone. That's cut and hung, not taped.
> 
> Honestly no, if it was mine I'd want him to rip it out and redo it properly without beating the crap out of the drywall and I'd want metal corner bead used this time.
> 
> A discount sounded more reasonable for the terrible job that was done.


The thing is cj is do you want to give this guy another chance. I am a firm believer in if someone makes a goof he has to get a chance to fix it. But this is more than a goof. This is just bad in many ways. And I don't think you can get bullnose in metal. And actually it's not the corner beads fault. It's just when you use bullnose it's a different application than regular bead. Really I haven't used metal bead for years, even on regular corners.

118 boards working alone is a hell of a day.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> The thing is cj is do you want to give this guy another chance. I am a firm believer in if someone makes a goof he has to get a chance to fix it. But this is more than a goof. This is just bad in many ways. And I don't think you can get bullnose in metal. And actually it's not the corner beads fault. It's just when you use bullnose it's a different application than regular bead. Really I haven't used metal bead for years, even on regular corners.
> 
> 118 boards working alone is a hell of a day.



Agreed.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

oldrivers said:


> This looks like remodel work , *house should be done settling twisting moving* so if the taper uses common materials methods you most likely wont have any cracks . cracks are more associated with new construction .


I get the biggest kick out of that statement every time I hear someone say it. Nothing could be further from the truth. A structure never gets "done settling twisting moving". All structures are always subject to seasonal movements.


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## cj133 (May 16, 2011)

My 150 year old house still gets cracks in the plaster from moving from time to time. 

Wood expands and contracts with moisture and temperature and it will never stop.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

If you do get a discount, you should give it to your finisher, he is the one that will be slowed down and have to pay for that other guys mess.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

cj133 said:


> Not me, I've never hired a low bidder in my life and still got a crap job.
> That's why I do all of my own work now.


I know exactly what you mean. I'm in the same club.

There is no longer a "State of The Art"


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> I get the biggest kick out of that statement every time I hear someone say it. Nothing could be further from the truth. A structure never gets "done settling twisting moving". All structures are always subject to seasonal movements.


Well let's not exaggerate. There is movement due to seasonal changes, etc. But the "settling" of a new house is a real thing. Due to the materials used, new construction house lose hundreds of gallons of water from the structure just in the first few months. After this initial period of change, it then enters a "steady state" of movement that will continue forever. In other words, it's always going to move, but less so after the first half year or so. A house that survives the first 6 months with few or no cracks is going to fare much better than one that shows lots of problems early.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> Well let's not exaggerate. There is movement due to seasonal changes, etc. But the "settling" of a new house is a real thing. Due to the materials used, new construction house lose hundreds of gallons of water from the structure just in the first few months. After this initial period of change, it then enters a "steady state" of movement that will continue forever. In other words, it's always going to move, but less so after the first half year or so. A house that survives the first 6 months with few or no cracks is going to fare much better than one that shows lots of problems early.


Right On.

Frame with KD Douglas Fir, sheathe with fir plywood, especially the roof, Minimum 19/32" 5 ply min. double screw drywall. Proper footings and foundation to virgin soil assumed.

Most "movement" problems today are due to crappy green SPF lumber.


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

Bud Cline said:


> I get the biggest kick out of that statement every time I hear someone say it. Nothing could be further from the truth. A structure never gets "done settling twisting moving". All structures are always subject to seasonal movements.


sure they always move in a few places but after a few years of being built most 95% of cracks wont come back after initial settling takes place every house has a spot or 2 that will continue cracking from seasonal changes but they aren't the same from house to house . ive never seen a house where every seem cracks above a window or door . some crack at the seam and some crack away from seams .


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

jagans said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I'm in the same club.
> 
> There is no longer a "State of The Art"


that's why hourly guys that use hand tools are better than footage guys who use speed tools , the hourly guy gets paid to fix everything no matter what it is , speed footage auto tool guys lose profit if they have to fix anything .


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

oldrivers said:


> sure they always move in a few places but after a few years of being built most 95% of cracks wont come back after initial settling takes place every house has a spot or 2 that will continue cracking from seasonal changes but they aren't the same from house to house . ive never seen a house where every seem cracks above a window or door . some crack at the seam and some crack away from seams .


Where do your numbers come from? Houses can and will settle for many years after it is built. There are so many factors that no two houses are a like. I live in a 37 year old home and had to repair two new basement wall cracks two years ago.

Water tables change and go through cycles. Droughts. Heavy rain season. There is no real science or stats.

I have been in many homes more than 20 years old that have developed many cracks from settling.

And I don't think any one is suggesting, or did suggest, that every seam cracks above a door or window. It's just basic building knowledge that a seam (path of least resistance) is the place cracks are most like to develop and areas of load transfer are places that have the most potential for movement. So why place a seam in a place that it is most likely to develop a crack?

I would agree letting one go, but it was done on every single door and window that the OP showed. It's a recipe for trouble and easy to aviod.


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## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

OP here. Wow, this thread blew up! To make a long story short, I confronted the original contractor about his work and he agreed to redo the corner bead using spray glue and the proper transitions, at no charge. He returns, pulls down two doorways of the stuff, puts new bullnose up overtop of the bashed in drywall using about 3 cans of trim-tex glue. Made a big mess and the bullnose wasn't even stuck to the wall when he was done. After seeing the disaster, I called him and told him things aren't working out and not to come back. His exact replay was "OK, oh well" and hung up. Wasn't very dedicated to the job, eh? He got away with $1400 unfortunately, but sometimes the lesson is expensive. Hired another guy and provided him with a very specific list of expectations. A lot of drywall was replaced and every corner was redone. He's almost done touch ups and priming and things are shaping up nicely.:thumbup:


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## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

Oh, someone asked what the first guy planned to do to cover up the corner bead mess. Besides saying "I'll make it look good" about a hundred times, he said he was going to use durabond and mesh tape.:furious: My apologies to actual skilled users of mesh tape that do a good job, but 99% of the time when I hear someone say they are using mesh tape, it's because that way they can cut corners and skimp on the installation and the mesh will magically make everything OK. Sorry.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Sorry you had to go thru this. I think the reason the thread blew up is there are some people on here that really take pride in their work. Then to see something like that gets them worked up a "little."

The sad fact is he will now go do the same thing to another unsuspecting HO. Then walk away with a pocket full of money and give all contractors a black eye.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Regarding mesh tape and Durabond, hmmm.... I think mesh tape has its place. It's mentioned in Myron Ferguson's book, and I respect that guy. But he does say it should be used with setting compound. FibaFuse is not mentioned in that book (not the version I have anyway) and I think that would be even better. Bottom line is
1) Durabond is so strong that mesh tape is probably fine
2) My first impression of guys who pull out the mesh tape is they're hacks, unless I have reason to think otherwise


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> Regarding mesh tape and Durabond, hmmm.... I think mesh tape has its place. It's mentioned in Myron Ferguson's book, and I respect that guy. But he does say it should be used with setting compound. FibaFuse is not mentioned in that book (not the version I have anyway) and I think that would be even better. Bottom line is
> 1) Durabond is so strong that mesh tape is probably fine
> 2) My first impression of guys who pull out the mesh tape is they're hacks, unless I have reason to think otherwise


OK Jeff, I am not a drywall guy, but I do my own drywall, and I always use the green MR fiberglass mesh tape, and basic 5 gallon Green topped premixed mud. I always add a cup of warm water to the mud and mix it real well. I stick the mesh tape onto the cupped edges, then use a 6 inch Goldblatt knife to bed the tape nicely in mud, then I use two more coats with a 10 inch Goldblatt. Ive never had any cracks and you cannot tell where the seams are. What am I doing wrong? Im always open to learn new stuff.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

You have been lucky. Mesh tape has no strength vertically. Simply cut a piece grab opposing corners and pull in opposite directions. Any movement, and I mean, ANY movement, will result in cracking. The only reason it can be used with setting compound is the strength is in the compound, regular compound does not have this strength.

Please explain how you use it in corners and angles. Not being creased it goes in corners round, How do you get the corners square? The green mesh tape is thicker than paper so harder to cover and easier to sand thru. In my opinion it should only be used for repairs.

Fiba fuse hasn't been out that long and I have Myron's earlier book so it's not in mine either. But he has a couple vids on you tube where he uses it. And I agree if someone came in my house and broke out the mesh, he would be sent packing.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> You have been lucky. Mesh tape has no strength vertically. Simply cut a piece grab opposing corners and pull in opposite directions. Any movement, and I mean, ANY movement, will result in cracking. The only reason it can be used with setting compound is the strength is in the compound, regular compound does not have this strength.
> 
> Please explain how you use it in corners and angles. Not being creased it goes in corners round, How do you get the corners square? The green mesh tape is thicker than paper so harder to cover and easier to sand thru. In my opinion it should only be used for repairs.
> 
> Fiba fuse hasn't been out that long and I have Myron's earlier book so it's not in mine either. But he has a couple vids on you tube where he uses it. And I agree if someone came in my house and broke out the mesh, he would be sent packing.


Well, I just sent for Myrons latest book from Amazon along with a couple others for my Library. I use paper tape in corners, but I like the mesh because of the ease of strike through.

Now, as far as cracking goes, you cannot test the mesh by itself. Fiberglass has very good tensile strength when it is embedded in something with good compressive strength. It is the combination of physical properties working in concert that makes it work. I do not think a fiberglass hull would work real well without the mesh and the resin do you?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

jagans said:


> Well, I just sent for Myrons latest book from Amazon along with a couple others for my Library. I use paper tape in corners, but I like the mesh because of the ease of strike through.
> 
> Now, as far as cracking goes, you cannot test the mesh by itself. Fiberglass has very good tensile strength when it is embedded in something with good compressive strength. It is the combination of physical properties working in concert that makes it work. I do not think a fiberglass hull would work real well without the mesh and the resin do you?



I think this is where the problem lies, as regular joint compound really has no compressive strength. And really for the hull it would be hard to compare resin to compound. It is my understanding even the makers of the mesh say it should only be used with the setting compounds. The one I saw had it on the label.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Jagans if you get a chance go on Drywall Talk and use the search and look up Fiba Fuse. If your not familiar with it, it's a fiberglass that is loosely woven (for lack of a better term) It comes in rolls like drywall tape and in my view out does mesh and paper. It even comes in 36" wide rolls for use say when you need to skim coat a really rough wall, or can be cut to any size you can use.

If it has a drawback it is that it's a little hard to use in corners. It's hard to find in my area so I have to order online but even with shipping it's worth it to me.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

ToolSeeker said:


> Jagans if you get a chance go on Drywall Talk and use the search and look up Fiba Fuse. If your not familiar with it, it's a fiberglass that is loosely woven (for lack of a better term) It comes in rolls like drywall tape and in my view out does mesh and paper. It even comes in 36" wide rolls for use say when you need to skim coat a really rough wall, or can be cut to any size you can use.
> 
> If it has a drawback it is that it's a little hard to use in corners. It's hard to find in my area so I have to order online but even with shipping it's worth it to me.


I will most definitely check that out. Anything that makes drywall work easier is worth it to me, cost be damned, because I do not do it for a living (Thank The Gods) As usual, there is a hell of a lot more to every trade than meets the eye. I am looking forward to reading that book.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Paper in corners, Paper, Mesh or FibaFuse on seams. It all depends on what I am doing, but hot mud and mesh tape won't fix these issues.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

jagans said:


> Well, I just sent for Myrons latest book from Amazon along with a couple others for my Library. I use paper tape in corners, but I like the mesh because of the ease of strike through.
> 
> Now, as far as cracking goes, you cannot test the mesh by itself. Fiberglass has very good tensile strength when it is embedded in something with good compressive strength. It is the combination of physical properties working in concert that makes it work. I do not think a fiberglass hull would work real well without the mesh and the resin do you?


Yes but it's a very open weave in drywall mesh (more air than material), and a much heavier fabric and tighter weave in fiberglass/resin work. Add to that the fact that fiberglass resin is essentially a "setting" compound, and there you have the 2 major differences between figerglass body work and drywall mesh tape with standard drying compound.

So it's not the fiberglass material per se, it's how the tape is designed.

Here is the material used to do fiberglass repair
http://www.diy-fiberglass-repair.co...opped-strand-mat-and-woven-rovings-puwtmk.jpg

Here is standard mesh drywall tape
http://www.bdoutdoors.com/gallery1/files/2/3/3/6/dsc00745-a.jpg

Here is FibaFuse
http://www.contractortalk.com/attachments/f49/73131d1339525644-fibafuse-image-3135935613.jpg

It should be obvious which will be stronger. FibaFuse has practically every advantage the mesh tape has (such as "ease of strike through" as you call it), but it's stronger and easier to sand over.

FibaFuse is also available in large sheets for large wall repairs.
http://www.prlog.org/10392026-fibaf...es-time-cost-in-wall-and-ceiling-repairs.html

One advantage and disadvantage of FibaFuse is the same thing - it's very easy to cut. Big help when doing flat joints. Does not help in corners. I usually use a corner knife when doing corners anyway (a corner knife won't cut through it accidentally), but most pros don't. So what FibaFuse says to them is: use a lighter touch and it won't cut the tape. You don't need to be as heavy handed with FibaFuse as you do with paper, because the joint compound just flows in there easily.


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## chemman (Apr 2, 2012)

I was afraid this might turn into a paper vs fiberglass debate.:laughing: I'll agree with jeffnc, the first thing I think when I hear fiberglass is hack, and whoever said it gets the stink eye.:yes: I guess I am fortunate that I've done bullnose myself, so I knew right off the bat that his work sucked. His mentality was put it up fast, cover it up faster so no one will see it. He started talking about his warranty at one point and I told him what I thought of warranties.:no: I'd do the whole project myself, but I'm too darn slow and OCD about it.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Mesh also comes in large format sheets. Styro Industries makes them in 9.5", 19" and 38" widths.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> Yes but it's a very open weave in drywall mesh (more air than material), and a much heavier fabric and tighter weave in fiberglass/resin work. Add to that the fact that fiberglass resin is essentially a "setting" compound, and there you have the 2 major differences between figerglass body work and drywall mesh tape with standard drying compound.
> 
> So it's not the fiberglass material per se, it's how the tape is designed.
> 
> ...


I took a look at it on Youtube, and it looks a lot like spunbonded polyester, but polyester is really quite strong and it would not be easy to tear.

Thank You for the Info and your time.

Any corner tools that you consider to be essential? Besides the 90 degree trowel I mean?


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

Just so you know almost every drywall company has full time guys that do repair work , most builders have atleast 1 year warranties where they fix things that move , when drywall seems crack 98% of them are repaired in the same spot , no drywall company ive ever worked for since 1982 removes sheets of drywall on a wall or ceiling so they can put the seams in a different spot before its fixed . now if they kept cracking in the same spot the repair standard would be different .


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## oldrivers (May 2, 2009)

ChiTownPro said:


> Where do your numbers come from? Houses can and will settle for many years after it is built. There are so many factors that no two houses are a like. I live in a 37 year old home and had to repair two new basement wall cracks two years ago.
> 
> Water tables change and go through cycles. Droughts. Heavy rain season. There is no real science or stats.
> 
> ...



how do I know ? because 98% of cracks are fixed in the same spot, entire walls are not ripped apart so the seam can be moved to a different spot . 

so how can the spot where a crack first appeared be ok to repair in the same spot . if they weren't they would constantly crack but they don't . 
there are a few that do but that will always be the case .


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

oldrivers said:


> how do I know ? because 98% of cracks are fixed in the same spot, entire walls are not ripped apart so the seam can be moved to a different spot .
> 
> so how can the spot where a crack first appeared be ok to repair in the same spot . if they weren't they would constantly crack but they don't .
> there are a few that do but that will always be the case .


98% of cracks? Again, where do you get your stats and figures?

The fact is you don't have to replace an entire wall to move a seam. 32" is all you need.

I don't even understand your second question, but I will try to answer it.

So how can the spot where a crack first appeared be ok to repair in the same spot? What does that mean. If a crack appears, it doesn't mean that it will come back. But if a repeat offender does occur, patching again, most likely won't actually fix it.

In my 12 years as a remodeling contractor and home owner, I have repaired many cracks that reappear. Moving the seam was one of the fixes. There are so many factors to look at and numerous fixes. But why start off setting yourself up for failure?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Just my $. 02 A seam at the corner of a window or door is more likely to crack than say a seam above a door. This is because of the stress at that point when the door or window is opened or closed. So the chances of cracking relates a lot to how much they are opened and closed. Some crack at these points when the door or window is stationary never opening or closing.

Knowing these are weak (very) points and it's so easy to do just avoid putting a seam in these areas. These are one area where it would be better to move the seam. Even if you move it to over the window it will be better than the corner.

If you have say a corner that repeatedly cracks there are products like magic corner that can be used. Another place really prone to cracking is the seam at the peak of a cathedral ceiling. This is a much harder fix. Almost any off angle is an area that is prone to cracking this as mostly due to just movement of the wood due to seasonal changes.

So yea cracks happen some can be eliminated with proper planning and the use of proper materials. Some of these areas need to be addressed by the builder, don't see this happening.

The easy fix nowadays seems to be throw some hot mud on it and sometimes this works sometimes it doesn't so again recurring cracks. Sometimes the the best way, like the corner of a door, is move the seam which is pretty easy.

Ramble over.


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## JohnGalaman (Oct 15, 2014)

The work is poorly done, to say the least!

John Galaman


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