# Are you having ice problems?



## eddiemac (Dec 21, 2004)

I recently had a roof installed on my house. I had the ice & water shield on the first three feet, as well as a ridge vent. I kept the existing gable vent and fan on a thermostat. I had 30 year architectural shingles put on. Anything else I should have done?


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Well there is your problem. you are over ventilated!!!

ridge vent should not be mixed with other ventilation systems especially gable vents and attic fans and you mixed both! www.rollvent.com www.airvent.com 

Your roofer should be shot.


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## jmorgan (Feb 10, 2005)

Grumpy,
I know from all of the ridge vent guys that you are not supposed to mix systems. But, can you really "overventillate". I thought, the more the better? I thought the reason not to mix different ventillation types is that the net amount of venting could be less, as the systems mixed are not working as they were designed to do and could interfere with each other. 

My hay loft over my warm (barely) barn has completely open gable ends (except for bales of hay) & with no insulation.....this roof has almost no snowmelt when compared to the main house, garage & workshop roofs. The latter roofs develop ice dams every year....but none on this barn. It must be overventillated with no walls on the gable ends.
Jim


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

No you can't really over ventilate unless you start mixing ventilation systems together.

Keep in mind the more ventilation you have, the more insulation you are going to want.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

I do not agree completely with Grumpy's last statement. I see it as you need adequate insulation to retain your atrificial climate, regardless of amount of ventilation. You need ventilation to release the warm moist air that does get lost (no matter how much insulation you have, you WILL lose heat). More ventilation doesnt mean more insulation.

More ventilation will result in less condensation on the underside of the roof deck, regardless of the amount of insulation. Less insulation will mean more heat loss and thusly, more ventilation will be needed, but more ventilation will not cause more heat loss than is already present. You should not look at it as if heat retention (in attic) will require less insulation or vice versa. They are two separate issues that must co exist and be dealt with in order to reduce ice damming and moisture condensation on the underside of the roof deck.

I hope I have conveyed this properly.


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Aaron, the more ventilation you have to more hot air will escape and most people don't have enough insulation... so when they increase their ventilation to what's adequate, they might notice a noticeable difference in the heat loss.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 14, 2004)

I agree one hundred percent with Grump. My first wife had massive head ventilation and nothing but hot air came out of her mouth.

Bob


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Bob .

Grumpy, I see. 

If they are under-insulated, they are under-insulated. If they are properly insulated, additional ventilation will not hurt them. This is what I was trying to say.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 7, 2004)

If I could figure out how to post the [email protected]#$%^&*()_++_)(*&^%$# pics. I'd like to post my current problem.
The house that I just picked up is the same as mine, gable, ridge and tiny soffit vents yet neither show any damage. The new one is 1/2" on 24's and is showing saddles.
Grumpy, I e-mailed you the pics, did you get them?


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

Aaron I guess if you put it that way, I do agree with you. I understood differently in your original post.

Teetor call me and I will try to walk you through it. 847-729-3496


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Grumpy,


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## CGofMP (Feb 23, 2005)

Tetor you are such a help to everyone that I'd be happy to give back a little bit to you.

Send me your pics and I will post them for a month or so on my website for ya.

I'll even throw in a tutorial of how to post pics so people can see them here.










Charles


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## Two Brothers Construction (Mar 14, 2005)

I have the condensation in my home. I have lived here for 4 years and now it just started. I have good insulation in attic. The house is only 14 years old. Help....


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 7, 2004)

Thanks CG, I may take you up on that. I'll have to go take some lower resolution pics. Wish that I had my old photoshop back, Kodak's program leaves much to be desired.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

Two brothers, where is the condesation appraering?


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

I seen on one homeimprovement show the guy installed new gutters and took it up a notch by having a heating unit installed in them that automatically comes on when temperate is below freezing to keep water moving in gutters during winter time.


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## Needing Help Guy (Feb 7, 2007)

*Ice Damn Repair*

I had paid a roofer to put a new roof on my house earlier this summer and now I am having leaking in my ceiling, apparently from an ice damn. I have called the roofer, but he is saying that this is normal. Do I have a leg to stand on to get him to fix the damage to my ceiling from the Ice Damn on my 7 month old roof.


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

A roof that leaks is NOT normal. Most likely the ice build up is occuring in a valley or near the bottom of the roof where the gutter may be full of ice. When it melts, it runs up underneath. I'm not sure as to whether you can get this guy to fix it. Ice build up is normal, but we always put down an extra ice and water barrier in these problem areas. My guess is that he didn't. Have you asked him to repair this? Most guys who want to run a good business would take a look at it for you.


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## Needing Help Guy (Feb 7, 2007)

yeah i have asked him to fix it repeatedly and he has not called me back. eventually an adjuster came and said that this is text book ice damn and my claim to his insurance company was denied. I mean this is so bad that water is coming in through my ceiling, running down my walls, coming out of my electric plugs. I mean this is just a mess and I have been trying to call this guy for approximately 3 months and he has done nothing. So I don't really know what to do now other than take him to court and report him to the better business bureau


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## cibula11 (Jan 6, 2007)

That's a tough one. I would consider to seek out advice. Talking to a lawyer may not be a bad idea. If you can prove that his job was not done appropriately then I couldn't see why you wouldn't get the benefit. Regardless of his decision to give you a break, report him. Can you find exactly where the roof is coming from? Or can you access the leak? 

Make sure you keep all documents and invoices that you get from having to fix damage. These would be reimbursements if you decide to file legally.

Please let us know how things go, and like I said, there might be someone on this forum that knows how to handel this.


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## AaronB (Jan 29, 2005)

He probably skipped out on the ice and water barrier to save a few bucks. 

Not to rub salt into the wound, but was this the lowest price yuo could find? 

If it were my roof, it would have had ice barrier...for a leak proof ice dam situation, for a properly executed contract, and for my reputation. Ice barriers are cheap insurance, IMO.

I see this a lot in my area when the "contractor" (and I use tis term loosely) is only interested in one thing...the quick buck. It takes a whole bunch of fortitude to build a long lasting company with a good reputation, and lack of funding (lowest price) is the hardest obstacle to overcome in a market full of hacks that do not care about their own reputation, much less the customer.

The first thing I would do is pay someone to fix it before the interior damage gets worse. Document everything, and get pictures (non-digital is best). Send a letter via US mail certified mail with return receipt as proof that you contacted him to fix the damages. 

Get it fixed now. What do the terms of his written warranty state?


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## Needing Help Guy (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks guys. i will keep moving forward and definitely know what happens. And the warranty states that he will cover damages that are non-phenomenons (i.e. tornadoe, hail, etc.). Nothing about snow and ice. Thanks for the advice and I appreciate the guidance. If there is anything else I can do or you have any ideas feel free to let me know


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## glorietta (Jun 4, 2007)

Grumpy said:


> Many many homes have ice problems in the winter time. From ice damning to condensation, you can really go nuts! How can you prevent these problems from occurring? The answer is protection, ventilation and insulation.
> 
> Many of the homes today have become "tighter". This means they don't breathe as well. Windows and doors seal better than in the past. Homes are much more energy efficient, and this is all well and good; however if your attic doesn't have the proper ventilation and insulation to handle the energy efficiency your going to have problems.
> 
> ...


You should check out XXXXXX might be interesting to you.


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## nai0248 (Feb 17, 2008)

*Gutters*

I have a new house with 45 degree roof pitch. However, I've noticed that my gutters do not have much of a pitch so in the winter all the gutters are solid ice. My thought is to just remove the gutters to eliminate the collection of snow and ice on the edge of the roof. 

Do any of you see problems with doint this? I would assume the only purpose for the gutter is not to wash away the soil around the house. I'm willing to deal with that more that ice damning.

Thoughts?


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Frozen gutters are NOT a result of ice damming. Ice dams occur on the roof shingles, where the unheated soffit overhang has NO heat transfer from the interior portions of the heated home and that snow and ice does not melt except from the temperatures outside and the direct sun. 

The damming occurs at the juncture where the exterior wall is located and goes past that point to the heated portion of the home.

As Grumpy stated in his original helpful advise post, the problem exists from insufficient insulation, which alows excessive heat loss through it and into the attic.

Withour a PROPERLY BALANCED Frsh Air Intake Ventilation System and also a proper Hot Air Exhaust System, which will also remove built up humidity before it turns into condensation, then the snow wil begin to melt over the heated portions of the home.

When enough water accumulates at the unmelted snow and ice dam at the soffit overhang, it pools up and when it gets deep enough, it goes under the tabs of the courses of shingles, finding the nail locations and drips through them.

In your case, do you have a basement? If so, by removing the gutters, you may be looking at flooding problems through the foundation.

Ed


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

[my claim to his insurance company was denied. 

Contact your state insurance beurea for help on the insurance. Did the contractor have a bond? 

Does your state/community have an agency that oversees contractors? Are contractors required to be licensed/registered? Have you contacted the local inspecion agency to ask about inspections that may have been required? 

And the big question, was this the cheapest contractor you could find?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

fireguy said:


> [my claim to his insurance company was denied.
> 
> Contact your state insurance beurea for help on the insurance. Did the contractor have a bond?
> 
> ...


FYI: The post you're responding to is over 1 year old....


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