# Have you installed a smart thermostat in your home?



## Admin

> "A smart thermostat can be a great addition to any home. A traditional thermostat requires you to make ongoing adjustments throughout the day, but a smart programmable thermostat automatically adjusts using temperature detection and presets. You can also adjust it via your mobile phone, whether you’re away from home or at home but not close to thermostat." *How to Install a Smart Thermostat*


Have you installed a smart thermostat in your home yet?

Why? Why not?


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## stick\shift

Yes, because the house is only used part-time and I like to be able to turn up the heat (I turn it down about 15° F in the winter when I am not there) before I get there rather than sit around freezing while I wait for the house to warm up.


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## NickTheGreat

I have talked about it before on here, but I installed an Ecobee 3. I really liked it, but it reeked havoc with my furnace. The furnace wouldn't kick on to high heat and the house dropped in temps. The HVAC guy (who hates smart t-stats) recommended I put the old one back on and it fixed my problem.

I didn't have a c wire so I used the PEK adapter from Ecobee. I'm wondering if running new wire will help out, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. 

It's sad, as I really liked the thermostat itself.


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## jami0821

I'm using a Nest and it's wonderful. I like how I can track things on my phone, get alerts, and just how overall efficient it is. 

It's hard to understand why someone wouldn't want one these days with them being so affordable now. Unless the reason is that it isn't compatible with their existing HVAC system or something.


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## JasonRoberts85

Yes, these things are a great convenience, once you install them, you don't have to worry about the temperature in the house/apartment.


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## acwhiz

This is a great way to dynamically regulate the temperature throughout the day in our working environment.

Thanks for bringing this tip to us. Cheers.


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## user_12345a

> I'm using a Nest and it's wonderful. I like how I can track things on my phone, get alerts, and just how overall efficient it is.
> 
> It's hard to understand why someone wouldn't want one these days with them being so affordable now. Unless the reason is that it isn't compatible with their existing HVAC system or something.


$200 to $300 is affordable?

when you can get a regular programmable for $100 or less?

gimmick if you ask me. but i hate smart phones and wifi; makes it so you can't get away from the technology.


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## Red Squirrel

I don't like "smart" stuff as it's often cloud based and in some case may even spy on you, I don't trust any of that stuff nor do I want to have to rely on a 3rd party for something in my house to function. 

So I made my own. Basically a relay controller with temp sensors, and then a basic web interface with C++ back end. 







I left the existing thermostat on the wall and just ran the sensor through it, have a few other sensors throughout the house too, but most of the time I just go by the living room sensor. 

I eventually want to redesign this system so it's more modular though. I have a separate system that is strictly for monitoring stuff (AC power outage, backup batteries etc) so I want to tie it all in one system. I also want to have a hardware interface on the wall in a few places so I can do basic overrides as right now I need my phone or computer to do overrides.


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## cee3peeoh

Did you use a raspberry Piiiii?


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## Red Squirrel

I did not know about Raspberry PI nor Arduino back when I set that up. If I was to do it over again probably would have used Raspberry PI. 

I used this:

https://www.canakit.com/4-port-usb-relay-controller.html

The back end is written in C++ and it just talks to it via serial. Basically just parses out the text output. Was a bit tricky to get working right and it's still not 100%, like sometimes it gets hung up and I have to reset it, but overall works ok.


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## That Guy

I tried, and was told by ecobee i need to rewire my furnace to make it work.... so the smart thermostat sits on my end table til i figure out what to do with it.


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## NickTheGreat

That Guy said:


> I tried, and was told by ecobee i need to rewire my furnace to make it work.... so the smart thermostat sits on my end table til i figure out what to do with it.


Rewire your furnace??? Or need to run new wire to the thermostat? Because Ecobee can work without the 5 wires with their PEK thing.


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## Red Squirrel

Yeah that seems odd unless you have a furnace that has a very proprietary thermostat system.


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## DallasCowboys

Cricket said:


> View attachment 382650


My thermostat is automated but it is not a smart one.

But.....do you see how large that thermostat is?

I wonder if there is any reason why you could not cut through the sheet rock and create a recess in the wall the same depth of the average thermostat.

So, you would not have to look at the thermostat from the side. 

It would still be able to regulate the air, if it was recessed an inch into the wall.

They are an eyesore if you stand back and look at them.

I can't be the first person to think of this, I wonder how often it is done or if there is a reason it can't be done.

Thanks


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## Bud9051

I may have missed it, but I haven't see the "why" question addressed. Are people installing smart stats because they hope to save on energy or do they like to adjust temps for comfort? 

Modern super insulated homes or super insulated upgrades will benefit little from the up and down adjustments.

For homes that need the energy improvements I see the smart stats as a "feel good" fix, but I haven't seen people describing their savings.

Bud
PS just a manual stat but it matches my needs and my home is super insulated.


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## Red Squirrel

Me personally it is because I work shift work. So I have a couple programs for each shift, then I can set them in the calendar and it will do it's thing. When I'm sleeping, or not home I have it set to like 12C, and when I have to get up I have it set to around 22C (I'm always cold when I'm tired) and for other times when I'm home I have it set to maybe like 18C. I can of course override it any time. 

My original intention was to design an algorithm so it can learn how long it takes to bring the house to a certain temperature from a certain temperature when it's a certain temperature outside, but never ended up doing it, so I just manually have it set in my schedules to start the heat a few hours before I actually want it to be that temp. 

Before the gas rates went up, I used to have my bill down to like $95 when I originally set this up. Now days my bill is around $140 or so but still decently cheap considering my house is not all that efficient. It seems when they installed the vapour barrier they did a bad job and did not tape anywhere so the house is very leaky.


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## NickTheGreat

Bud9051 said:


> I may have missed it, but I haven't see the "why" question addressed. Are people installing smart stats because they hope to save on energy or do they like to adjust temps for comfort?
> 
> Modern super insulated homes or super insulated upgrades will benefit little from the up and down adjustments.
> 
> For homes that need the energy improvements I see the smart stats as a "feel good" fix, but I haven't seen people describing their savings.
> 
> Bud
> PS just a manual stat but it matches my needs and my home is super insulated.


My reasoning was solely for the cool (geek) factor. I justified it saying I would turn the t-stat down when away for a few days and turn it back up when on the way home. :wink2:


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## Bud9051

I do understand the "geek factor". Were I 40 years younger I would be having a blast with all of the new technology.
The simple programmable stats have given way to live programming and control from anywhere.
As a retired energy auditor I have worked on (and live in one now) homes that take many hours to drop just one degree during below zero temps outside. With that slow of a response to cold weather an overnight setback accomplishes very little. It actually caught me by surprise as I hadn't considered just how well tons of insulation and air sealing would perform. Ironically the only adjusting I do now is to compensate for my bodies reaction to high and low blood sugar.

Bud


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## Yodaman

I use a $60 programmable, not a full smart. My house is tight and sealed well. Also heat with radiant floor heat that can literally take 1 to 3 hours to increase temp by one degree. But I do drop down one degree at night, then back up in the morning.
I don't think it really saves me anything, I just do it for comfort. Cooler temp = sleep better.


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## ktkelly

Using both methods.

Main house I have a simple programmable with four settings for Morning, Day, Evening & Night. It works well.

Beach house I use a Honeywell WIFI enabled so I can change settings remotely. It's nice to have the place cooled, or heated, upon arrival, and be able to step temps rather than have heat coils come on in cold weather.

Yes, both have helped cut the bills....


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## Gregsoldtruck79

With me being an OF, I am intimated by this new fad of WIFI, Smart devices. 

In my ignorance, I am too feared that the interwebs may get hacked and my Smart stat may just sit there and not know to turn the heat on, when its 0 deg. F. outside ...and we just happen to be gone from home for a few days.


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## Yodaman

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> With me being an OF, I am intimated by this new fad of WIFI, Smart devices.
> 
> In my ignorance, I am too feared that the interwebs may get hacked and my Smart stat may just sit there and not know to turn the heat on, when its 0 deg. F. outside ...and we just happen to be gone from home for a few days.




Makes perfect sense to me. Everything else gets hacked! The question is, does the benefit outweigh the risk?
Probably not for me.


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## Red Squirrel

Yeah I don't trust any consumer electronics of that nature because most of the time it's not done with security in mind. A lot of these things are full of backdoors too. 

That's why I designed my own system.  I trust my own code better than some capitalist company that will offshore it to India to the lowest bidder.


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## CaptTom

I had to replace a failed t-stat anyway. In theory I'll save energy, between an automatic program and the ability to adjust remotely. But it was more a case of "why not" than "why."



Red Squirrel said:


> Yeah I don't trust any consumer electronics of that nature because most of the time it's not done with security in mind. A lot of these things are full of backdoors too.
> 
> That's why I designed my own system.  I trust my own code better than some capitalist company that will offshore it to India to the lowest bidder.


I think I'm going to be forced down this path, too. I'm not real thrilled with a third party having access to what amounts to inside data about my house, but I haven't put on my tin-foil hat just yet. The bigger problem is the off-the-shelf stuff doesn't give me what I want.

Specifically, I want to be able to log when and for how long each zone is activated. Likewise with the oil burner. It should be simple; just detect 24VAC on a pair of wires. I'm not finding anything off the shelf to do that. It seems silly to have to wire up a bunch of relays for this, but I may have to.

I'd also like to be able to put a zone in "freeze protection" mode; I don't want or need the heat, but I want to run the circulator for maybe 1-5 minutes every hour or two.

Beyond that, it would be nice to add sensors for things like indoor and outdoor temperature. You could get all crazy with fridge temp, water sensors on the basement floor, temp sensors on water pipes that pass an outside wall, etc.

I'm looking for a flexible "base" on which to build all this. Oddly, none of the home monitoring systems I see take this approach. They all seem more focused on intrusion alarms on doors and windows, and motion and sound sensors. That's all great, but I want more than that.

I've never used one, but I'm thinking a Raspberry Pi is going to be the best solution in the end.


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## Gregsoldtruck79

Here is the extent of my "Smart" devices and my wife says they just give me something to read and fret over too much. I see her point somewhat, as I think sometimes we can go down the slippery slope to where we get the "information overload" syndrome. Like waking up with the cold sweats at night, wondering what the smart phone has on its screen that we need to be checking on.  JMO


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## NickTheGreat

Red Squirrel said:


> Yeah I don't trust any consumer electronics of that nature because most of the time it's not done with security in mind. A lot of these things are full of backdoors too.
> 
> That's why I designed my own system.  I trust my own code better than some capitalist company that will offshore it to India to the lowest bidder.


Don't you do your coding on a capitalist company produced device that was manufactured in India? :devil3:


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## Red Squirrel

NickTheGreat said:


> Don't you do your coding on a capitalist company produced device that was manufactured in India? :devil3:


Unfortunately can't get away from that. But the places where I do have control I take it. 

In fact look up Intel ME - it's a backdoor in every Intel processor. AMD has it too... not much we can do yet but the Linux community seems to be working hard and finding ways to disable it. There's a few crude things out at the moment but I'll wait for something more turn key. Might be as simple as putting sharpie on specific cpu pads.


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## Bettye

I really liked it, but it reeked havoc with my furnace. The furnace wouldn't kick on to high heat and the house dropped in temps. The HVAC guy (who vuelta.club  hates smart t-stats) recommended I put the old one back on and it fixed my problem.


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## CaptTom

Bettye said:


> I really liked it, but it reeked havoc with my furnace. The furnace wouldn't kick on to high heat and the house dropped in temps. The HVAC guy (who vuelta.club  hates smart t-stats) recommended I put the old one back on and it fixed my problem.


I don't usually come to the defense of technology, but let's be fair. Smart thermostats CAN work with 2-stage furnaces. They just have to be wired correctly. And of course, the stat you buy must be capable of that. My guess is almost all of them are.

If "your guy" can't figure out how to wire it correctly, or recommend the correct model, then the problem isn't with the thermostat.


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## NickTheGreat

CaptTom said:


> I don't usually come to the defense of technology, but let's be fair. Smart thermostats CAN work with 2-stage furnaces. They just have to be wired correctly. And of course, the stat you buy must be capable of that. My guess is almost all of them are.
> 
> If "your guy" can't figure out how to wire it correctly, or recommend the correct model, then the problem isn't with the thermostat.


That "poster" took my post from the first page, word for word. :vs_whistle:

And you're right, it has to be a wiring issue and he didn't want any part of it. I have not revisited it since, and have a nice Ecobee 3 sitting on my workbench unused . . . lain:


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## CaptTom

NickTheGreat said:


> That "poster" took my post from the first page, word for word. :vs_whistle:


Oh, wow. I see that now. Sorry! I didn't mean to quote plagiarized material!

I think my Raspberry Pi that just arrived today is going to spend some time on the bench waiting for me to get around to it, too. So I know how you feel about your Ecobee. One of these days!


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## Red Squirrel

Yeah my guess is that it's a 2 stage but it's probably wired to only fire the 1st stage. Had a coworker who had the same issue. Got it setup properly and made the world of a difference. As a side note, do newer furnaces run less hot, in general? My dad was complaining that it's cold in the house since his new furnace and I touched the plenum with back of my hand and it was not really that hot. On mine at home (newish... like 10-20 years at most) and it's almost too hot to touch. I wonder if it's a two stage too and not wired right. I imagine the hvac guys would know waht they're doing though when they installed it. They only have a regular thermostat with A/C. Did not really spend much time looking into it though, it was just something he mentioned while I was visiting.


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## ktkelly

All this talk of your system being hacked, kinda makes me laugh.

Great password protection is key. Do that and then you really don't need to worry about it. Not using things that reside on the cloud, where there is a possible way in, is also key.

Honestly, do you think someone really wants to hack your thermostat?


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