# Pipe fell down well-- Help me get it out?



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Dealing with an irrigation only well. Casing is 2.5 inch PVC. While servicing the above ground pump, I lost a 1 inch PVC down pipe down the well. I can see the top of the pipe and measured it down about 15 feet. I don't know the depth of the well or the length of the lost pipe (I would assume not to deep as we have a high water table). I assume there is a foot valve on the end of the down pipe.

Anyone got a trick to get the pipe out? I have several lengths of 1/2 inch PVC coupled together that I can reach the top of the lost pipe but have not found a method to snag it.


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## copwk (Jul 27, 2008)

Not a plumber but well versed in do it yourself.... when you hit the lost pipe does it stop, or is it floating? If it stops and you can press against it, put a piece of dowel in the end of the pvc you have latched together and screw a toggle bolt to the end of it in the same direction you would if you were going to push it through the drywall. When you push it into the end of the pipe and start to lift, the toggle will expand and grip the inside of the pipe. You can use a file to sharpen it a bit if it doesn't grip....

If it is floating, I have no idea...

Best of luck..


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

copwk said:


> Not a plumber but well versed in do it yourself.... when you hit the lost pipe does it stop, or is it floating? If it stops and you can press against it, put a piece of dowel in the end of the pvc you have latched together and screw a toggle bolt to the end of it in the same direction you would if you were going to push it through the drywall. When you push it into the end of the pipe and start to lift, the toggle will expand and grip the inside of the pipe. You can use a file to sharpen it a bit if it doesn't grip....
> 
> If it is floating, I have no idea...
> 
> Best of luck..


 
Pipe is stopped in well, I assume bottomed out. I will try your idea with the toggle bolt and report back. Thank you.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

This is probably a two person job.

You need a 15' long 3/8" OD or so pipe that's rigid.
Inside the pipe you put a thinner flexible tube about 16' long.
A balloon is attached to the end of the flexible tube.

You lower the balloon-ended pipe & tube so that the balloon is a few inches inside the lost pipe. The longer the balloon extends into the lost pipe, the less inflation pressure is needed for the balloon. 
If the balloon isn't rigid enough to go into the pipe, put some lead shot or ball bearings inside the balloon that's heavy enough to extend the balloon into the lost pipe.

Someone inflates the balloon when it is safely inside the lost pipe. They clamp off the flexible tube.
You carefully bring up the 15' pipe along with the lost pipe until you can reach the upper end of the lost pipe.

I guess coating the outside of the balloon with some type of very sticky stuff wouldn't hurt, either. 

Making a tube of double sided sandpaper so that the balloon is inside the sandpaper tube will give you a lot of friction between the balloon and the inside wall of the lost pipe, but getting the sandpaper to stay around the balloon until the balloon is in the pipe may be a problem.

I give you 3 chances out of 4 that this [or some modification of this] works, but I can't immediately think of any other way to do this.


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## Tommy Plumb (Oct 7, 2006)

Get a piece of PVC 15ft or so long. Glue a coupling to one end, put glue in the other end of the coupling, get it on the pipe in the well. Let it dry for a few minutes and lift it out. You won't get a water tight joint but it should be good enough to lift the pipe by.


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## TazinCR (Jun 23, 2008)

If the pipe has a foot valve it should have two pipes. 15' to the water and then beyond. I don't think a centrifical pump will lift water that high will it. Not sure.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Yoyizit said:


> This is probably a two person job.
> 
> You need a 15' long 3/8" OD or so pipe that's rigid.
> Inside the pipe you put a thinner flexible tube about 16' long.
> ...


this is a great idea!

Or you could go buy some of billy mays' super putty and just stick it to the end of your pvc that you have coupled together already.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

"this is a great idea!"

Thanks, Alan.
I tried to get on that show, Mission Impossible, but they never returned my calls. 
They must have lost my number.


I hope we all hear how this turned out. 

I'm thinking now that a 15' small-OD rigid tube could have been used to force open the toggle bolt inside the lost pipe, with a wire attached to the toggle bolt running inside the rigid tube, so a toggle bolt substitutes for the balloon.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Bad news to report. Tried the toggle bolt (sharpened the points of the toggle). Got it into the top of the pipe but would not get a good enough grip to pull the pipe. Slipped out numerous times.

Thied using a one inch coupling with PVC cement. Now it gets bad! While trying to work the coupling onto the pipe, the pipe went further down the well --ugh! I now have about 35 feet of pipe (all I had) on the probe and can't reach the top of the pipe. Also my 35 feet of pipe comes out dry, so I am not down to the water level. Will buy some more pipe to add to my down rod. Any more ideas?

I wonder if the make anything like the Chinese finger cuffs ( mesh tube you stick your 2 index fingers into.) The harder you pull the tighter it gets.


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## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

Secure tie wire on the end of your down rod... make loop... get it over pipe....twist..spin..down rod till noose is tight on the pipe... pull up and pray...

( to aid tight twist.. drill hole in your down rod once noose is on the pipe...use that old trashy Phillips head screwdriver for leverage in the hole you just drilled)

try this out: Learning experience ( lasso pipe twist etc. with small set-up outside the well.) Get the noose right then pvc glue the head unit on your down rod.

lots of ways to attach wire drill hole in cap... screw in end of down rod...etc

Be-sure your down rod connections are tight... you think you got a problem now!!!!!!!

good luck with this....and I thought I had problems...


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

rjniles said:


> Bad news to report. Tried the toggle bolt (sharpened the points of the toggle). Got it into the top of the pipe but would not get a good enough grip to pull the pipe. Slipped out numerous times.
> 
> Thied using a one inch coupling with PVC cement. Now it gets bad! While trying to work the coupling onto the pipe, the pipe went further down the well --ugh! I now have about 35 feet of pipe (all I had) on the probe and can't reach the top of the pipe. Also my 35 feet of pipe comes out dry, so I am not down to the water level. Will buy some more pipe to add to my down rod. Any more ideas?
> 
> I wonder if the make anything like the Chinese finger cuffs ( mesh tube you stick your 2 index fingers into.) The harder you pull the tighter it gets.


Isn't that finger puzzle thing on the end of thick power cables, to hold the end of the cable while spreading the holding force over several inches of cable so the insulation is not damaged?

How much time do you want to put into this?

I looked it up and found out that PVC is denser than water, so it does not float. Not good. I'd say drain the well. . .?

Here's a long shot; put a long skinny wire into the well and chuck the end of it in an electric drill motor. Spin the wire slowly and hope it whips around under the water and somehow snags the lost pipe with enough turns to pull out the pipe.


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## Tommy Plumb (Oct 7, 2006)

You could try the toggle bolt idea again. Shorten the toggle bolt so it barely fits inside the pipe. That should give you a better grip. Try it in a piece outside the well first.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

How long is the lost pipe [so I can figure out how much it weighs]?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> How long is the lost pipe [so I can figure out how much it weighs]?


 
I have no idea how long, never pulled it before.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

Idea, for what it's worth: use lengths of 1/2 PVC glued long enough to reach the bottom of the lost pipe. Slip them over some heavy wire, like fence wire. Bend a "V" in the end of the wire and use the 1/2" to force it down the inside of the lost pipe. When it springs open at the bottom of the lost pipe, use the wire to retrieve all of it.


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## TazinCR (Jun 23, 2008)

I am still wondering how this can be a one pipe system at that depth.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

TazinCR said:


> I am still wondering how this can be a one pipe system at that depth.


He didn't say it was a one pipe system. He only said he lost one pipe down the casing.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

The plot thickens: I have determined that the top of the water in the well is down 47 feet, The top of the lost pipe is about 10 feet below that. I got the biggest toggle bolt that would fit into the 1 " pipe, Attached to a 2 foot section of 1 " pipe weighted with lead anchors. Managed to snag lost pipe several times, could not budge pipe, but bent the heavy duty toggle.

Found info scratched into the concrete well curb indicating well is 610 feet deep. If there is 500 feet of pipe filled with water there is no way in the world I will be able to snag it with something that could lift it, even with a winch.

Time to call a pro well driller.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

*


rjniles said:



The plot thickens: I have determined that the top of the water in the well is down 47 feet, The top of the lost pipe is about 10 feet below that. I got the biggest toggle bolt that would fit into the 1 " pipe, Attached to a 2 foot section of 1 " pipe weighted with lead anchors. Managed to snag lost pipe several times, could not budge pipe, but bent the heavy duty toggle.

Click to expand...

*


rjniles said:


> *Found info scratched into the concrete well curb indicating well is 610 feet deep. If there is 500 feet of pipe filled with water there is no way in the world I will be able to snag it with something that could lift it, even with a winch.*
> 
> *Time to call a pro well driller.*


*Nah, c**'mon, you can do this. . .*

*For PVC, ID=1.0", OD = 1.25", 500', I make the pipe out to weigh ~140#, but the water will make this weight appear less. *

*If you can make an airtight seal with the top of the lost pipe, and force air into the top of the lost pipe, it will rise. *
*If the air is delivered into the lost pipe at high CFM, the pipe might rise quickly enough, even with air leaks, for you to have a chance to snag it.*
*I don't know how much PSI the seal between the lost pipe and the air supply pipe will have to withstand. *

*I don't guess you can post a cross-sectional drawing of what this well probably looks like**?*
*Dunno' much about wells.*


You might try cut and pasting this line into the Google search box

pipe retrieval equip

Here's one hit
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6758267.html

You might be able to find a place that will rent you pipe extraction equipment.


*[Georgia, 3, B]*


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

An update on my lost pipe down well.

I have found out what I have is a packer jet system, it use a jet pump on top of the casing, and a packer jet down in the well (on the end of the lost pipe). The packer uses leather washers to create a seal between the down pipe and the PVC well casing. Below the packer is a another down pipe that can extend up to 25 feet. It works similar to a 2 pipe system jet pump system except it uses the casing as a second down pipe.

I have determined that the packer is down 150 feet (lead weight and string). The top of the down pipe is 70 feet down under 20 feet of water. Below the packer is an unknown length of pipe (max 25 feet). To the bottom of the well ?? (if the note on the well curb is right it is 610 feet)

I have determined a 3/4" galanized nipple will thread into the 1 inch PVC down pipe faifly tightly. I am rigging up 70 feet of pipe with the 3/4 gal. nipple on the bottom. I will also attach a pull rope at the bottom end (packer jets are notoriously hard to pull). At the top I am making a connection for my air compressor. I intend to run this rig into the well, try to thread the nipple into the lost pipe. Use the compressor to blow out the water and use the rope to pull everthing up.

Maybe a long shot, but wish me luck.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

rjniles said:


> An update on my lost pipe down well.
> 
> I have found out what I have is a packer jet system, it use a jet pump on top of the casing, and a packer jet down in the well (on the end of the lost pipe). The packer uses leather washers to create a seal between the down pipe and the PVC well casing. Below the packer is a another down pipe that can extend up to 25 feet. It works similar to a 2 pipe system jet pump system except it uses the casing as a second down pipe.
> 
> ...


*So far , so good.*

*You know. . .speaking of luck. . .if this actually works you will probably have used up a considerable portion of your total lifetime allotment of luck!*


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Some of the stuff I learned in school is coming back to me.

For 150' of pipe fully submerged, you need (150/32)*15 = 70 PSI to push all of the water out of the pipe if the pipe doesn't rise while you do this.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Just a shot here, but I have seen tools for unlocking car doors that are made for post-type lock like in the 70's-80's. Looked like a washer on a wire. Could you maybe make some kind of ring (that will just fit over the pipe), hook it over the end of the pipe like a dog coller, and pull. The ring will cock and bite as you pull on it.


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## DUDE! (May 3, 2008)

I would figure looking down a 2.5" hole, basically with no light to work with, you won't be able to know if you're looking at the lost pipe or the remaining pipe, maybe you turn your attention to just trying to hook up a new section of pipe to the feed pipe in the casing, not sure if leaving a section of pipe in the casing is going to bother anything, even if you pull out the lost section, you still have to connect it to remaining pipe. Maybe skipping a step will alieve some stress. A new section of pipe w/coupler, glue in place you might be able to push it onto the good remaining section. Or, is there room to put a complete new section of flex pipe down the casing, straight from pump to well bottom. 
One last thought, you could have big picnic and we all take turns with the shovel.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

If you are able to pull this pipe out, Mr. Niles, you have the right to change your name to 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzBrxj-Gjo

:laughing:


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> If you are able to pull this pipe out, Mr. Niles, you have the right to change your name to
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzBrxj-Gjo
> 
> :laughing:


 
Yoyizit wants to nickname me "Shaft"

An update:

Measured well this AM with lead and string.
Packer is down at 260', meaning the top of the pipe is down 190' (down pipe is 70 ' long). It is now too far for me to reach with anything I have. By this time it must be out of the well casing and into the drilled bore hole. My hope now is that it will continue to drop deeper into the 610 ' well. If it drops below the water bearing rock strata, I should be able to install a new packer jet and down pipe. I am testing this by filling the well with my garden hose. The well fills to overflow in a few minutes. Once (or if ) the packer gets below the water bearing strata I should not be able to fill the well. Probably my last hope to save the well. Anyone have a deep well packer jet for sale?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Update:

Used a few fittings to seal the top of the casing to connect my air compressor. Filled well to the top with water. Started adding air the pressure, built up to about 20 PSI and a terrific woosh and the pressure dropped to nothing and would not increase. Measured water level at about 45 feet and goes not get higher when I add water. Dropped long string and weight, packer is below 500 feet (all the string I had). Purchased a new packer jet from Craig's List and will install when it arrives. Hopefully I have salvaged my well.


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

take a wall anchor with that butterfly spring clips at the end of the bolt types you use to anchor into sheet rock say heavy mirrors or shelfs around the hose....now the trick take a PVC 1/2" cap drill a hole into it slide the bolt thru from the glue side and lock it with a washer and nut....put the butter fly on the end of the bolt and glue the cap onto your 1/2 PVC lenghts.use a butterfly that will fit into the target pipe as it slides down it will spring open as it gets to the open end of the lost pipe...might be able to just get it inside the pipe and it wil lock up into the inside of the lost pipe and its weight will help as you pull up on the 1/2" fisher pipe


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## Pontgta (Feb 15, 2017)

I know this is old , but did you figure it out niles?


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Pontgta said:


> I know this is old , but did you figure it out niles?



As I said in post #22, I abandoned the pipe down the well and installed a new packer jet and down pipe. Well works fine.


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## Pontgta (Feb 15, 2017)

Yeah that is what i want to know ... if you got it working. I saw that you abanded the pipe, but did not know if you ran into any other issues by leaving the pipe down there.


Thanks for the reply... i kinda have the same issue, so i am going to give it a shot this weekend..


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## Pontgta (Feb 15, 2017)

So,

I have an updtate to my issue, since last i psoted . I had similar issue, 2 inch pvc casing, 1 inch drop pipe with a packer at the bottom of this well. I did Know thta the well was only 50ft deep total, and i also knew that there was a coupler at the end, but was in water. Went to lowes and tried a coulpe of things to see what would fit. I was actually able to retrieve the pipe and packer from the well by using a 1 inch threaded galvanized pipe atached to 60ft of pvc pipe. I pushed the pipe down and felt it go into the coupler and turned the the pipe ,so it would kinda thread to the coupling. Well it worked:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2: 

I know this was not my thread, but i got some great ideas from it, and like to post successful ends to prooblems. 

Again thanks for all your help. Oh and the pump is now working excellent as well..:biggrin2:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

A water well driller will have an overshot retriever..... has slips on it...

Maybe one will rent it to you.


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