# priming entire interior on a nicotine house



## Bushman (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi all,
My question is....
The house I am purchasing has interior walls and ceilings that are coated in yellow nicotine stains. The house sat vacant for 9 months. Apparently there was some interior condensate that built up on the walls and caused little yellow rivers of nicotine to flow down the walls. The carpets stink to high heaven from the prev. owners dogs. One room has dog poo still stuck in the carpet.I plan on washing walls and ceilings and removing carpet. Once this is done I am going to tape off the windows and such and spray the whole house top to bottom with oil based Kilz. Including floors. Anyone have any better solutions? :nuke:

My goal is to permanantley hide nicotine and eliminate dog smell.


----------



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm pretty sure you're going to want to wash the surfaces, most probably the guys here will recommend TSP and perhaps even heavier ammo to fight the nic. staining. The smells are a different story....

DM


----------



## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

sounds like a good plan. 

Nicotine stains can be very tough to clean and paint to cover.

On heavy nicotined walls consider adding a chem sponge to the cleaning arsonal. And read the Kilz label... 2% stain burn through possible. I like to 2 coat kilz on the heavy stained walls and trim at least.

Consider flat finish on the walls ... easy touch up if you do get burn through... area spot paint with kilz... and then flat paint to blend.

Hint: you can get the kilz tinted to your wall color. :thumbsup:

PS. pull the carpet and tackless 1st...cross contamination thing...to start the odor battle... you may need to spot treat the subfloor.


----------



## AlabamaGuy (Apr 1, 2010)

Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer 

I pasted this from the SW site.

A favorite for fire restoration work, White Pigmented Shellac Primer blocks stubborn stains caused by fires, floods and pets – *as well as imbedded cooking and cigar smoke odors*. It’s our highest performing primer for permanently sealing out the toughest stains and odors in one coat.

Good Luck.


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

AlabamaGuy said:


> Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer
> 
> I pasted this from the SW site.
> 
> ...


That or BIN,:yes: forget the Kilz, it will not work as well as a shellac based primer:no:


----------



## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

Kills for the win. Take off carpet, and all else, and spray everything. 

I am currently doing a remodel where freakin pigs lived. I don't know how the bank approved a loan on that dump. "I swear, I think that is isht on the walls, 5 feet off the floor" type of house. Every time I would walk in I felt squishing dog, maybe human #2 and urine under the carpet and my boots. I actually couldn't hold it in when I opened the fridge that they left, barf. My guys wouldn't do the demo. Had to hire day laborers to get it going. 

Kills, 2 coats, top to bottom took care of it proper.

oh, don't use the odor-less one. Get the one that stinks, its oil based.


----------



## The Hammer (Jul 13, 2008)

chrisn said:


> That or BIN,:yes: forget the Kilz, it will not work as well as a shellac based primer:no:


As a former union painter I will second BIN as the best. Now I will also add that a primer /sealer is meant to seal not to cover. It will stop the nicotene from permeating your surface paint as well as eliminate the smell. Good luck.


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

slickgt1 said:


> Kills for the win. Take off carpet, and all else, and spray everything.
> 
> I am currently doing a remodel where freakin pigs lived. I don't know how the bank approved a loan on that dump. "I swear, I think that is isht on the walls, 5 feet off the floor" type of house. Every time I would walk in I felt squishing dog, maybe human #2 and urine under the carpet and my boots. I actually couldn't hold it in when I opened the fridge that they left, barf. My guys wouldn't do the demo. Had to hire day laborers to get it going.
> 
> ...


The Kilz oil based(original ) is fine for some jobs. This one would require Bin, or a comparable shellac based primer, oil will not do an adequate job,IMO


----------



## Bushman (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input. I will have to compare Bin vs Kilz.


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

There IS NO comparison:no:


----------



## 1handylady (Apr 8, 2010)

Also something to consider would be Zinssers Oil based Odorless Primer, A lot like BIN but in fact can
also be used a a ceiling flat, so you are killing to birds with one stone. This product is also a fantastic stain
killer without the horrible smell. Also keep in mind that if you use the BIN it does not clean up like a traditional oil base, you need to use ammonia (Methyl Hydrate).
Always use TSP first to clean, or you can find phosphate free alternative at you local hardware store,
never use soap and water.
HAPPY PAINTING


----------



## Big Bob (Jul 27, 2007)

Really sorry to see the OP's question devolved into a Zin-Bin VS Kitz debate.

Many types of Zinsser & Kilz product are available. Zinsser is a great product ... the best ... but, may dry so hard it might require a primer to get good paint adhesion.

[OP could not post enough pictures, or describe in enough detail.. the real needs of this project...
One would need to bow to experienced eyes and hands on to make the best call.]

Over many years, of doing fire/water + Insured loss restoration (Get it right the first time, because there is no second chance), I have bought many hundreds of gallons of each... Bin, kilz & bullseye...etc... The right product for the specific needs of the project...


What to use was left up to the 3rd generation paint superintendent, crew chief, Forman, key employee that also had A+++ customer relation skills... 2/8 of a good paint job... proper prep...4/8... the right finish work and quality paint 2/8... = very happy  clients. 

OP for best advice... give it your very best cleaning effort... (We loved 
Very hot water & ****'n span...)

OIL based is recommended:
BIN can be higher dollar than the kilz... Get some knowing eyes to look and feel to advise what is best for your needs. 

Good luck... I hope this helps with perspectives and is informative rather than confusing.


----------



## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

1handylady said:


> Also something to consider would be Zinssers Oil based Odorless Primer, A lot like BIN but in fact can
> also be used a a ceiling flat, so you are killing to birds with one stone. This product is also a fantastic stain
> killer without the horrible smell. Also keep in mind that if you use the BIN it does not clean up like a traditional oil base, you need to use ammonia (Methyl Hydrate).
> Always use TSP first to clean, or you can find phosphate free alternative at you local hardware store,
> ...


I second the oderless oil unless you feel comfortable wearing a reperator. Both Bin and Kilz dry EXTREMELY quick so don't leave any roller lines or heavy spots thinking you can go back and smooth them out. :no:


----------



## slickgt1 (Apr 1, 2010)

Thats why I spray it.


----------



## slickshift (Aug 25, 2005)

*Bin*

The Original Kilz _might_ work on lesser stains and odors
...much lesser

This is a job for BIN


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

slickshift said:


> The Original Kilz _might_ work on lesser stains and odors
> ...much lesser
> 
> This is a job for BIN


You think anyone is listening??:laughing:


----------



## jce (Apr 2, 2010)

MAB Paints oil based lok-tite is great for smoke stains , but the odor is bad too...close to bin's. lol


----------



## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Perhaps 1handyLady could explain to us what she means by "ammoina (methyl hydrate)"...

I am positive we'll learn something.
:no:


----------



## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

ccarlisle said:


> Perhaps 1handyLady could explain to us what she means by "ammoina (methyl hydrate)"...
> 
> I am positive we'll learn something.
> :no:


 
Ya think???:laughing:


----------



## Bushman (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone again. I have not closed on the house as of yet. So my access is limited of course.
I do not know if the yellow will clean off of the walls or not. 
I am interested in the cleaning detail so i will start a new post on that.
I do plan on spraying the house. It will be much faster.
Of course money is always an issue but I do not want to do it twice. Hence the post.
Thanks again


----------



## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Cigarette smoke has, what? some 100 different chemcial compounds in it something like that, some of which land on your walls and ceilings. Some are water-soluble and some aren't. The water-soluble ones dissolved in the humid air that sat in your house for the nine months, the ones that aren;t soluble in water just sat there, probably turning dark yellow and starting to smell over time as many organic chemical compounds do. To say nothing of bacterial action, whatever _that_ may be... 

So washing the surfaces with a water-based solution of a soap or TSP will definitely be required if your objective is to remove the odour. You won't get all of it but most of it - probably enough so that the treatment you select afterwards will be more effective - but each case is different as are personal tolerances. But consider this: if you leave some dark yellow, oily residue on the cleaned surface (because you did a good job removing the water-soluble residues) and painted over that with an oil-based paint, with time that spot will show through because the spot dissolved in the oil carrier.

Same argument applies to _water-based_ stains. Say you didn't even bother to wash it and just applied a latex paint...well, in due course the water-soluble parts of the stain will show through, probably the oily stains too. 

So what's needed? You need to grab these molecules and surround them in a hard shell that neihter water nor oil will get through: ie shellac. That'e why BIN works in this situation and an oil-based paint won't. Again, these are tolerances involved here so to each his own.

But ask yourself what a professional do, one who is paid to take care of that problem and not want to risk his reputation on what? a poll or hearsay from cousin Vinny down the road?

Now taking care of the odour is somewhat the same idea. The odour molecules (of which there are dozens) can each be treated individually - but at what cost? In an empty house a good ozone treatment might work but here again there's nothing like neutralizing all those molecules in a shellac shell. Again, take your lead from professional fire and smoke restoration guys and see what they would use...


----------



## mazzonetv (Feb 25, 2009)

Bin is really the best way to go. It will form a vapor barrier to seal odors which the oil based products will not! Why chance having the place smell like a dirty ashtray??


----------



## gailquilter2 (Feb 16, 2010)

When some tennants moved out of a rental the fleas and urine smell was terrible, we scrubbed and scrubbed and each day set off several flea bombs when we left. Used genuine T.S.P. We did this every couple days for two weeks. Still smelled, then I decided to wash the ceiling in the laundry room. That took care of the smell immediately. So you know what they had done. Evicted for non-payment of rent.

Selling my mother's house: nicotine on floor to ceiling 10' high windows on most of the exterior walls and everything else, I spent hours on one small glass area and accomplished smearing it. It was like a plastic film epoxied on there. When she moved out the stench of cigarettes was unbearable and made my eyes red and watery. We had the windows cleaned, walls washed and painted, everywhere including closets. Didn't help. Had the carpet shampooed, didn't help. Had the drapes removed and cleaned, didn't help. We had the realtor get a non-smoker to go in there after each cleaning to check.
Open beam ceilings--had them cleaned and painted.
Next couple in the house bought it.


Get some help and remove as much as you can before sealing and don't forget the ceilings. Mixing chemicals can be deadly--don't do it.


----------



## Bushman (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks gailquilter,
Check my post out further down. diff topic same thread. I have some pics of the nicotine dripping down the wall. Unfortunatley the ceiling is textured. It is the half swipe trowel look. Not sure what it's called but not sure how to clean it either. I won't be able to wipe it very well.


----------



## ratherbefishin' (Jun 16, 2007)

Sounds like your texture is "Spanish knife" or similar. Clean it the best you can with a large coarse sponge and TSP. BIN will seal in the the little bit you can't get.


----------



## gailquilter2 (Feb 16, 2010)

Bushman, 
I found your pictures by clicking on your name and looking at other posts.
I have no idea about the white stuff but I think you better have it tested before you move in there.
What does it feel like? Gypsum? I cannot imagine what else would be white. Why wasn't it discolored with the nicotine?
If the walls are too hard to clean and if you are strong enough(I'm not) to pick up a sheet of drywall you could replace the walls, fix insulation, put in a vapor barrier, rewire anything you wanted like tv, telephone and elec, and start fresh. If you can do all that and mud, it wouldn't cost much. Depends on how many rooms I suppose and how much time you have. Doing the mud is actually fun.

Are you going to live there? I worry about the nicotine and you breathing it.
gail


----------



## gailquilter2 (Feb 16, 2010)

*painting ceiling*



Bushman said:


> Unfortunatley the ceiling is textured. It is the half swipe trowel look. Not sure what it's called but not sure how to clean it either. I won't be able to wipe it very well.


But you can paint it. They make a special roller brush for it, very lumpy roller brush.
Personally, I'd spray it. Maybe you said you'd spray it before.


----------

