# Propane vs Electric



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Richard Pryor said:


> $1.75/gal propane vs $0.08/Kw electricity.
> 
> What is better/more efficient: electric or propane clothes dryer?
> 
> ...


As was stated elsewhere you need to calculate the BTU s per cent, to figure which one is the better deal. 

Propane dryer will dry faster, due to the heat is immediate, whereas the electric dryer needs time to heat up. 

The same for the water heater, also with the propane, you do not have a tank full of water being maintained at 125 degrees. 

Wasting money. And the propane is instantaneous , while the electric wastes water while the hot water travels to the shower, sinks, washer, etc. 


ED


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## RAL238 (May 20, 2018)

At $1.75/gal for propane, and assuming a 93% efficiency on a tankless water heater, it will cost you $20.56 per million BTUs to heat the water. 



At $0.08/kWh with an electric water heater, it will cost you $24.68 per million BTUs. If you have a tank-type electric water heater, the cost will go up a bit due to standby losses.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Already visited there. https://www.diychatroom.com/f19/propane-vs-electric-644043/


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> Already visited there. https://www.diychatroom.com/f19/propane-vs-electric-644043/


Thanks, I thought I was experiencing deja-vu for a moment there!


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Based on your name I would think you want to stay away from flames :biggrin2: I would think in the long run propane would be more efficient/cost effective vs. electric .


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## Richard Pryor (Jun 25, 2016)

@RAL238 gave great info with numbers. Wish I could do that for all appliances. Gas range is a no brainer just because cooking is so much better with gas. And I'm pretty sure they're more efficient than electric.

Seems like @RAL238 answered regarding water heater.

I guess that leaves us with clothes dryer. Currently we do laundry at the laundromat and those natural gas dryers are so damn efficient!! Clothes dried in 8 minutes, 12 tops. That's why I thought going propane would make sense. But maybe not since I know natural gas is a lot cheaper than propane?
@RAL238, is there any way you could take the time to do a comparison with a clothes dryer with the numbers I provided?

Thanks!!!


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

The propane clothes drier will be technically 100% efficient, so it'll do even better then the instant hot water heater. (which BTW can easily hit +97% on good units.)

The biggest difference is that the propane appliances generally have 2 or 3x more input heat capacity, verse their common electric cousins. (eg. electric range is slower because it's half the heat. 25-35,000 btu compared to +80,000 btu. Easy to find even 100-120 mbtu ranges. Similar numbers for electric/gas water tanks, and driers.)

It is worth to note that instant hot water heaters are often up to 200,000 btu. This can mean adjustments in the supply piping, if you already have piping installed. 

A second note is that there are often more fees on top of that 8c/kwh. Delivery fees, environmental fees, government fees to convert screw-ups, etc. Depends on where you live. This can tip the favour to propane even further. 

A third note is the cost of delivery during the dead of winter. Often prices spike, and delivery companies have been known to break contracts, to increase the prices. You may want to insist on the largest tank available for your jurisdiction and situation. 

Cheers!


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## RAL238 (May 20, 2018)

Richard Pryor said:


> @*RAL238* gave great info with numbers. Wish I could do that for all appliances. Gas range is a no brainer just because cooking is so much better with gas. And I'm pretty sure they're more efficient than electric.
> 
> Seems like @*RAL238* answered regarding water heater.
> 
> ...



I haven't previously looked much at clothes dryers in regards to propane vs electric. I used to have a gas dryer years ago in another house and found that, although it worked well, the added complexity of gas valves, igniters and flame sensors made for more things to go wrong. 



I searched around a bit, and didn't find any simple numbers for efficiency like those available for gas furnaces. I assume they have some efficiency loss similar to the flue heat loss on a furnace. 



With your cost for propane of $1.79, the dryer would have to be less than 82% efficient before an electric dryer becomes more effective.


If you had natural gas available, that would be a clear winner. Around here, natural gas runs about $13.83 per million BTUs, about 1/3 the cost of electricity. 



Here's an interesting paper on the efficiency of dryers. 



https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/ene_14060901a.pdf


If you look at the "site energy usage" part of the bar chart (blue) in figure 5, it shows that standard gas dryers use slightly more energy than electric dryers. Although they didn't include propane dryers, I assume the results would be the very similar to gas. That suggests that if propane is a bit less expensive per million BTUs (as it is in your area), then propane would be cheaper to operate. Hard to say how much you'd actually save. Maybe not much over the course of a year.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I am going to suggest that you look into a good Solar Dryer. 

I use one Weather permitting. 

It's called a Clothesline :devil3:

If a person wanted to, they could rig up Solar panels to create electricity, to power an electric clothes dryer, and do the laundry on sunny days, or a storage battery of some kind at night. 

The initial cost for the setup might be a lot, but you will not be paying Whatever Scottish Power demands. 

You do know that Scottish power, bought nearly all the Power Companies here in the west, the one here too, sure they are still using the old names, PPL, RMP, etc, but only have a few offices in Oregon that actually have employees working in them. 

On summer days and warmer winter days, a Clothesline works well, and your clothing gets that outdoors smell, that dryer sheets imitate. 


ED


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

RAL238 said:


> I ...
> https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/ene_14060901a.pdf
> 
> 
> If you look at the "site energy usage" part of the bar chart (blue) in figure 5, it shows that standard gas dryers use slightly more energy than electric dryers. Although they didn't include propane dryers, I assume the results would be the very similar to gas. That suggests that if propane is a bit less expensive per million BTUs (as it is in your area), then propane would be cheaper to operate. Hard to say how much you'd actually save. Maybe not much over the course of a year.


Interesting read. Their testing procedure seems to be quite loose, which they admit to, so the difference is likely within measurement tolerance. It does make mostly sense though, as moisture is a product of combustion. That moisture represents about 11% of the potential energy, where their tests only show 1-2% increase. 

In either case, the propane drier will still cost less in utility costs. It may break even with potential repair costs over the lifetime of the drier assuming the most basic models. (I would anticipate that higher end electric and heat pump models will be way more expensive to repair then an mid-upper level gas drier, on average. )

Just as interesting is the reference to total energy consumed from the source, rather then just the end consumption. That doesn't change utility prices, but would sway opinion if the energy footprint is important to the purchaser. (personal preference at that point.)

Cheers!


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

de-nagorg said:


> As was stated elsewhere you need to calculate the BTU s per cent, to figure which one is the better deal.
> 
> Propane dryer will dry faster, due to the heat is immediate, whereas the electric dryer needs time to heat up.
> 
> ...


Use the calculator - you can assume 100% efficiency since you are simply comparing with is cheaper in the long run, not trying to determine your actual costs.

 http://www.maxmcarter.com/fuels/fuelscalc.html

FYI - I did it for you - here's the results...


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Domo said:


> Use the calculator - you can assume 100% efficiency since you are simply comparing with is cheaper in the long run, not trying to determine your actual costs.
> 
> http://www.maxmcarter.com/fuels/fuelscalc.html
> 
> FYI - I did it for you - here's the results...


That's inaccurate. It's missing a bunch inputs. Propane will be at best 97% efficient. The drier is s different story, but other factors play into it. 

Cheers!


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

supers05 said:


> That's inaccurate. It's missing a bunch inputs. Propane will be at best 97% efficient. The drier is s different story, but other factors play into it.
> 
> Cheers!


Yup clearly not something to set your budget from - that's why I stated it was simply for a BTU comparison at 100% not for an actual cost to operate.

OP is looking for generalized comparison, otherwise he'd have to supply exact model numbers for the appliances, etc. to get to the excruciating details.

But, he wanted to know, figuratively, if a cubic foot of feathers would weigh more than a cubic foot of lead. We don't care what kind of feathers they are or the impurities in the lead at this point.

Thanks help me make sure everyone knows it was only a rough estimate.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

supers05 said:


> That's inaccurate. It's missing a bunch inputs. Propane will be at best 97% efficient. The drier is s different story, but other factors play into it.
> 
> Cheers!


Yup clearly not something to set your budget from - that's why I stated it was simply for a BTU comparison at 100% not for an actual cost to operate.

OP is looking for generalized comparison, otherwise he'd have to supply exact model numbers for the appliances, etc. to get to the excruciating details.

But, he wanted to know, figuratively, if a cubic foot of feathers would weigh more than a cubic foot of lead. We don't care what kind of feathers they are or the impurities in the lead at this point.

Thanks help me make sure everyone knows it was only a rough estimate.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Domo said:


> Yup clearly not something to set your budget from - that's why I stated it was simply for a BTU comparison at 100% not for an actual cost to operate.
> 
> OP is looking for generalized comparison, otherwise he'd have to supply exact model numbers for the appliances, etc. to get to the excruciating details.
> 
> ...


Actually, i was referring to heat pumps. They will make electricity 2-3 times more competitive. You can also get heat pump driers. There's also other types of driers that are fairly energy efficient, if drying times aren't an issue. (other then a clothes line, lmao)

The calculator also doesn't include delivery fees, which can be quite expensive depending on where you are. Obviously we need more info from the OP for that and other aspects.

Cheers!


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

supers05 said:


> Actually, i was referring to heat pumps. They will make electricity 2-3 times more competitive. You can also get heat pump driers. There's also other types of driers that are fairly energy efficient, if drying times aren't an issue. (other then a clothes line, lmao)
> 
> The calculator also doesn't include delivery fees, which can be quite expensive depending on where you are. Obviously we need more info from the OP for that and other aspects.
> 
> Cheers!


I like the clothes line! - heck, strap the wet clothes to my engine block and go for a ride!

Thanks for being in the crowd - sometimes I get great laughs and great insights and other times I wring my hands and worry about how humanity will survive.

I've seen a post with over 54 replies about trying to plug in a three-prong plug into a receptacle that's clearly broken. My final answer in that thread after laughing was for OP to MOVE out of the home... still laughing.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Domo said:


> I like the clothes line! - heck, strap the wet clothes to my engine block and go for a ride!
> 
> Thanks for being in the crowd - sometimes I get great laughs and great insights and other times I wring my hands and worry about how humanity will survive.
> 
> I've seen a post with over 54 replies about trying to plug in a three-prong plug into a receptacle that's clearly broken. My final answer in that thread after laughing was for OP to MOVE out of the home... still laughing.


LMAO! Move out..... Oye. 

Clothes lines around here have a tendency of producing ice bricks instead of dry clothes. I think it's broken. 

Cheers!


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Richard Pryor said:


> $1.75/gal propane vs $0.08/Kw electricity.
> 
> What is better/more efficient: electric or propane clothes dryer?
> 
> ...


People also forget to check their local codes. Gas is usually cheaper from an operating POV but it's becoming insanely expensive from a code and maintenance perspective. People in my neck of the woods are slowly switching the smaller appliances over to electric (with exception to heating) because the newer gas codes/laws are pushing the initial install of gas appliances into the "stupidly high" price range. The maintenance also has to be carried out by a licensed gas man. For the smaller appliances anyway it's really no longer any kind of savings and more often than not it's becoming a loss in comparison to electricity.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Bob Sanders said:


> People also forget to check their local codes. Gas is usually cheaper from an operating POV but it's becoming insanely expensive from a code and maintenance perspective. People in my neck of the woods are slowly switching the smaller appliances over to electric (with exception to heating) because the newer gas codes/laws are pushing the initial install of gas appliances into the "stupidly high" price range. The maintenance also has to be carried out by a licensed gas man. For the smaller appliances anyway it's really no longer any kind of savings and more often than not it's becoming a loss in comparison to electricity.


Despite all the things i don't like about licensing here, at least home owners can fix their own stuff, even without a licence. A g2 gas licence isn't too difficult to get either, just costs a bunch of money. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

the indoor drying rack works fine in winter.

driers are a huge waste of energy whether you burn propane, gas, or use electric.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> the indoor drying rack works fine in winter.
> 
> driers are a huge waste of energy whether you burn propane, gas, or use electric.


I've tried them. Clothes start to smell when drying inside. 

Cheers!


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

the humidity has to be low enough and you can't put socks too close together. can also use a fan to dry things quicker.

otherwise u'r throwing away 5kwh every cycle.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> the humidity has to be low enough and you can't put socks too close together. can also use a fan to dry things quicker.
> 
> otherwise u'r throwing away 5kwh every cycle.


To have nice smelling, quickly dried clothes, that's a price I'll happily pay. Lol. Small houses don't have many options for indoor drying. 

Some dryers are as low as 1.5-3 kwh per cycle. Not cheap to buy or fix though. 

Cheers!


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