# Any ideas for making a round window?



## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

I would like to install ~5' tall, perfectly round windows in my home, and was wondering what would be the best/easiest way to do this. Assuming the opening for the window was cast from concrete, how should the frame for the window be made? I imagine it could be done by bending and joining solid pieces of wood, or, maybe it would be better/easier/faster to glu-lam strips of wood together(?) Ideally, the window would be hinged and openable, though perhaps the hinged part would not be at the full sides of the round edges, but from a partitioned segment closer to the center. This would generally only be used as a fire escape; there would be thin, rectangular (screened), open-and-closeable horizontal slots above and below the window to provide airflow.

I'm looking, first and foremost, for the durability of the construction. I don't have much experience with this - whether bent/joined pieces of wood would or wouldn't last longer than glu-lam.

What do you think?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That's about the most advanced type of wood working in the world of building.

Bending is inherently unstable---the movement that will occur with the changed in seasons will cause binding.

Plan on glue ups----a good band saw and router table will be the tools of choice.

If this is to be an egress window--make sure that the operating window will be large enough to meet codes.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

You can buy manufactured round and other odd shaped windows from a number of places. It is unlikely you will find 5' ones that open though. They will come pre-hung and ready to put in place. Same companies will offer trim packages. Obviously you will want to coordinate with the manufacturer so you know how to deal with the opening in the concrete walls, framing support, seals and so forth. 

I think they can be quite beautiful and can really define a dramatic space if matched to appropriate architecture. They look really out of place and goofy just plunked into conventional design, in my opinion.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Just thinking out loud here....but I would be inclined to think that while the actual window is round, the frame would be square....and you would just cover up the frame with drywall on the inside and what ever you have on the outside.

So....your fist step is to contact some window manuf's


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

sdsester.....love that first pic....reminds me of something from Harry Potter....


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

go to a glass installer, they can make pretty much whatever you need. typically it would be an aluminum frame for the window.

you have code requirements for minimum U-factors (energy efficiency) for the glazing


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## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

*Thanks for replies*

sdsester: Wow, the pictures of the large round windows is definitely what I'm looking at doing - they're beautiful! 

Note to all: Unfortunately, I won't be able to "order" these windows - I'm going to have to make them, myself. (This is, after all, the DIY chat.) 

That's another question: Assuming I *would* have to have custom-sized/shaped safety glass, is it possible/practical to make one's own insulated glass windows?

ddawg16: Hmm, interesting idea. It would certainly make the overall construction and glazing a lot easier. Hmmmmm...

oh'mike: I don't quite get the need for a bandsaw. Do you mean to be used to cut curves in solid pieces of wood?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

obi_donkenobi said:


> sdsester: Wow, the pictures of the large round windows is definitely what I'm looking at doing - they're beautiful!
> 
> Note to all: Unfortunately, I won't be able to "order" these windows - I'm going to have to make them, myself. (This is, after all, the DIY chat.)
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure that is what he meant.

There are two ways to make a circle out of wood....

1. Take long thin strips of wood...steam them and bend them around a form...glue...and you basically end up with a plywood wheel. The band saw is good for cutting thin strips.

2. Take multiple pieces of wood...typically about 4" wide...cut each end at a slight angle...join and glue making a rough circle....you then cut the center round...

Either way is very time consuming....which explains why a lot of windows are square or rectangular.

You want the easy way?

Make a big square window....then cover it with a circle.


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

If you are required to obtain a permit for your project I would recommend contacting the building department and determine if you can build your own window, and if so what requirements will it need to meet.

I'm sure Cali has as tough energy code requirements as we have in Massachusetts. I'm sure you'll do an excellent job in making the window, I'd just hate to the see the building official tell you to take it out if it doesn't meet the energy code requirements.

Good luck!


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

GBrackins said:


> If you are required to obtain a permit for your project I would recommend contacting the building department and determine if you can build your own window, and if so what requirements will it need to meet.
> 
> I'm sure Cali has as tough energy code requirements as we have in Massachusetts. I'm sure you'll do an excellent job in making the window, I'd just hate to the see the building official tell you to take it out if it doesn't meet the energy code requirements.
> 
> Good luck!


GB is right....

Little details like low E....double glazing....and depending on location...tempered...


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I would definitely start with your building department and a glass company to see what you need to comply and what kind of frame you are going to have to build so you can glaze the windows in place. 

I know this is a DIY site but you may end up having to get the glass sandwich with some sort of aluminum or fiberglass frame. Then dado to fit that in your wood frame in the wall itself. It might be cheaper too. I honestly do not know. 

You can build yourself a steamer out of large diameter PVC pipe but getting a homemade laminated frame past inspection could be tricky. I like the idea of building the frame from a square made from planks. See what the building company will allow. 

Your going to need some sort of trim/retaining ring for these windows too? Steaming and laminating the trim might work since if the piece tried to spring on you they would be held by your actual frame itself. You could and probably should do the trim in sections. It looks like that is what they did in the both pictures. Second one does not appear to have glass in it though. 

Just thinking out load a bit too. I have restored smaller round window frame trim but never built a round window from scratch. There is a gorgeous old mansion with some along the top floor that date back to the 1800s so the concept is not new. 

Good luck. Keep us posted. Pray you never break one of those because something tells me the glass is not going to be cheap.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Found this, a little different approach using epoxy to make 4-7' round window frames. As stated, it is more boat building technique than home building though. Not sure what your inspector will say. 

http://www.epoxyworks.com/12/circwindow.html


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## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

*More great comments and ideas*

Yes, I was planning to get with the Bldg Dept to verify code requirements, and to make these windows double-paned; from what I gather off the web, only the inside or outside panes have to be tempered, not both. That'd be nice (i.e., cheaper).

It _would _be easier to cut round holes in a square frame, and that idea did appeal to me, BUT, it wouldn't look or be as cool, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to go the hard road, and make truly round windows - oof!

sdsester: Cool link to the writeup on that boatbuilder guy's round windows. However, it only dealt with the window frame - not the window itself. My window frame will be shaped concrete, so that shouldn't be a problem for me. I do believe a homemade steamer is in my future, though!

Here’s another cool concept I just thought up: make the windows openable on a pivot point either in the vertical center, or maybe offset a bit to one side. If the window frame slopes away from the sill, sealing it to keep water out shouldn’t be too hard. That might require some custom metalwork for the required hardware. Whee!

I plan to blog the whole project. If you're interested, I have another blog about a trip I took back in 2009, cycling _around _the US on a recumbent tricycle. http://cycleamerica2009.blogspot.com/


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

obi_donkenobi said:


> Here’s another cool concept I just thought up: make the windows openable on a pivot point either in the vertical center, or maybe offset a bit to one side. If the window frame slopes away from the sill, sealing it to keep water out shouldn’t be too hard. That might require some custom metalwork for the required hardware. Whee!


You are talking a pretty heavy piece of glass of your window sandwich is two thermal panels or something and your diameter is 7'. Your frame material is going to have to be pretty strong and the hardware robust so the wind doesn't grab the whole thing. Pivoting windows are certainly doable though but perhaps not so large as you have in mind. There will be a lot of weight and stresses in a couple directions especially on the bottom pin if you put the hardware top and bottom. 









By the way, walked past a restaurant with round windows on the way home from the bank and paid some attention to the trim. It looks like they used tongue and groove about 4" wide. Looked alright.


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## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

*A weighty consideration*

sdsester: Good point (about the weight). From the center, then (if the Bldg Dept even allows it - which they might). 

Ach - a fellow FSMer! I've got the car magnet, meself, matey!


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

obi_donkenobi said:


> ach - a fellow fsmer! I've got the car magnet, meself, matey!


believe!


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

obi_donkenobi said:


> sdsester: Good point (about the weight). From the center, then (if the Bldg Dept even allows it - which they might).
> 
> *Ach - a fellow FSMer! I've got the car magnet, meself, matey*!


My x-b!tch was Scottish.....my current wife is English....

If I was back in the the "Brach" (Fraserburgh), it would be "Ach I, fit like"


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

ddawg16 said:


> My x-b!tch was Scottish.....my current wife is English....
> 
> If I was back in the the "Brach" (Fraserburgh), it would be "Ach I, fit like"


Trying over and over again to marry a royal are you lad?

You should join our ranks. We need more pirates. It is the only way to stop global warming now. The Earth has gotten warmer as the number of pirates has decreased. Reach out and let his noodly appendage touch you. And wear the fish skeleton with eye patch proudly.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Here is the kind of setup I have made for bending wood on renovation projects. Clunky but it works. Obviously more important are the jigs once you get it to the point it will bend. I would definitely use weather grade epoxy for the lamination. 

http://www.mmfww.com/_blog/Woodworking_Blog/post/Wood_SteamerBender_-_Easy_to_make/

To be honest, I like the scarfing idea for the frames better. Rather a waste of wood but you could groove a piece of hardwood with a dado blade to make it bendable too. May need some combination of techniques with a 7' window. 

I don't think any wood is in your future if you want the windows to pivot open. My guess is you will need shaped stainless or something.


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## Bodkin (Sep 30, 2012)

*Making Round Wooden Windows*

This is my first post on this site, so if I get anything wrong I am happy to be guided. I make my living by making round wooden windows, either opening or fixed. If you look at my site, roundwoodenwindows.co.uk you will see what I do. I am sure a dedicated DIYer could make one and if you contact me via my website we can discus your project. All the opening windows shown on my site have surface mounted hinges that I make myself but I would suggest that without access to a large CNC Router you would be better off making a traditional style round pivot window, I have just made an oval one for a client and it has the advantage that it consists of two plain circular frames and the rebates are formed by applied beadings. See pic attached. Again, I made my own pivot hinges, they are not difficult. BTW I sometimes make my windows from offcuts from my friends large woodwork shop, this may not be possible for you because for a 5ft dia window you will need pieces of wood about 25-1/2x5ins for the outer frame, and 24x4ins for the inner frame. I finger joint 8 segments together to make each circle, or hoop, I then skim these to 7/8" thick and laminate them together to make the blank from which I cut the frame, you certainly end up with plenty of firewood. The frames made this way are incredibly strong and 5ft would be no problem, I have made plenty of 4ft ones. My advice is, go for it!


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

welcome to the forum!

nice craftsmanship, look forward to reading your posts, nice having someone with your background on here


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

My I be the second one to welcome you----Pros can add their web link below the signature line--I suggest you do that--many folks from the UK frequent this site --You sure have a unique product and a high degree of skill!---Mike---Moderator---


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## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi Bodkin: Gorgeous work - thanks for hopping in! I don't think I'd be able to afford using all the solid hunks of hardwood to create the window segments, and am leaning strongly toward lamination. What do you think about that?

sdsester: Yes, a waterproof epoxy is what I would use to do the laminating. Thanks for the link describing how to make a wood steamer - very clever and highly workable.

I envisioned the pivot hardware to be stainless steel "T's," with the tops of the T shaped in a curve to follow the window shape. There would be stainless steel hole plates to receive the stem parts of the T's. I even imagine the top T stem (sticking up from the top of the window) would be spring loaded, so the window could be inserted into the opening, making the installation as easy as possible.


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## Bodkin (Sep 30, 2012)

Hi Obi,
Definitely laminate, it is what I do all the time. The pic I attached did not show the laminations very well, I have attached a different one this time showing a part machined window which shows the construction better, the segments are finger jointed before laminating. The oval window was laminated from offcuts, maximum thickness 1", cost 30$. The epoxy will cost more, well it would in the UK! I have made some very nice windows from recycled pitch pine floorboards, you can often reclaim short sections from boards that are damaged and useless as floor boards. Pivots are easier horizontal rather than vertical, it is difficult to stop rain penetrating if the window pivots about the vertical, for large windows you could use what we call security bolts and what you call rack bolts, see picture, They are available on Amazon.com for a few dollars. The solid brass bolt is nearly 1/2" diameter and all you need is a corresponding hole for it to pivot in, you could make the hole in a section of nylon rod, say 1-1/2" dia by 3/8" thick.

Hope this helps.


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## obi_donkenobi (Apr 1, 2012)

*Your techniques*

Bodkin: Thanks for your interest in my project and your advice! I have some questions about the picture you posted. How were you able to cut the individual segments of the frame into such nice curves? When I said “laminate,” I meant taking thin strips of wood, forming them into a circle, and gluing layers of these together to eventually form a solid glu-lam circle. In thinking about it, your way would seem to be better, but I’m not sure how I would cut those segments (hence my first question). 

Also, in the picture, I noticed that “work-in-progress” had flat, straight segments still showing. To make the inside opening fully round, how would you cut those flat segments to attain the nice, inner circle? Would you use a saber saw, a hand saw, or (?)


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