# basement insulation in Toronto,



## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I think you can insulate as there can never be too much insulation. However I think you do NOT put a vapor barrier because the foam acts as one. Though I'm curious to see what others say since I've been wanting to do my basement and I will probably do something similar. On the other hand the VB normally goes on the hot side, so really not sure what the rule is with something like this.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

The Roxul does not act as a vapor barrier. The air space between the foam/frame wall-insulation is bad for creating convective loops; http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743 In the U.S., it is against code as we fire-stop frame walls every 10' horizontally as well as at the top plate/ceiling joist cavity. Otherwise a wall outlet fire could spread quickly through the top plates gap along any of the ceiling joist cavities, up through a wiring/plumbing hole at the other side/end of the basement, even to the attic setting the sheathing/asphalt roofing on fire. Then the roof is burning down as the basement is burning up. Fire-blocking; #21; http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-fireblock-framing-37190/index2/

As far as v.b., for you *locally*: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...Hygrothermal_Modeling_Basement_Insulation.pdf

And in general; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...merica-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis

Gary
P.S. I'll move this thread to "Insulation" unless you are making a "How to guide"?


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

I was talking mostly about the foam itself acting as VB, though I'm not sure if it does or not.

And good point on the fire consideration. That foam stuff burns quite nicely.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

The problem with using the foil faced foam board before the Roxul, is just going to cause problems. For the OP, you really need to tear all of that down and start it from the beginning properly.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Foil-faced foamboard is fine if: http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ns?topic=resources/vapor_barrier_code_changes

Gary


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

For one a basement is not a wood framed structure, and 2 those rules only apply to the U.S., not the Canucks.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Read my highlights from that link: "However, a Class I vapor control layer could be used in a *below grade assembly *under the following conditions: (a) no moisture-sensitive material is trapped between the concrete and the Class I vapor control layer, (b) this space is completely isolated from air communication with the interior, and (c) the Class I vapor control layer is protected from interior-sourced condensation. An example of this assembly would be *foil-faced polyisocyanurate* applied to the *basement wall*, with the gap between insulation and *concrete* isolated and air sealed from the interior." From; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ns?topic=resources/vapor_barrier_code_changes

In Canada, *3.4 *under* "Vapor diffusion control", #4*- foam plastic is acceptable as a vapor barrier on concrete below grade on concrete walls; http://archive.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/rr/rr199/part3.html with or without a wood frame wall inboard. 

Here is a study by BSC written by a Canadian about 4 Canadian cities, including the use of XPS; http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ing-hygrothermal-modeling-basement-insulation

Gary


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