# How should I proceed? (Pics inside)



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Is that a return or does heat/AC come out ?


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

That's where the heat comes out.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Does the vent end there or go up to 2nd floor ?
I'd be inclined to frame the opening out for a large vent
Something antique-e looking

Are there any other vents in the house that size ?


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

The vent ends there. That's a good idea, didn't think about that. Getting a vent to cover the area that big that also looks antique-e. After I get new base mouldings. So no need to re-plaster it or put drywall in that area to reduce the size?

Why do you ask if there are other vents in the house the same size?


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

only problem is that the wall bulges out a little and what are those metal things on the side? I may just cut that off to make it flush with the sides.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I was curious if there were any other large vents in the house
I would frame out the opening with trim to the size vent that you find
Maybe larger trim to match the new baseboard

I'm thinking a larger vent was there in the past
Is that room colder then other rooms ?


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I'd say it is colder than the other rooms because it's the living/dining room and that's the only vent.

Can you show me an example from the internet about trim around the vent? The vent is kind of wide: approximately 16.5" with a little chipped off on the left side as you can see in the pic.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I was thinking a bigger vent was there which kept the room warmer
If you search you are looking for "antique heat register"
One I saw right off the bat in a Google search (images)
Older style angled out from the wall as seen in the side view


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I'll look some up. Was looking up "heat vents". Didn't know it was called "registers". It'll have to be 15"x18". In your opinion, do you think it'll be too large?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The ones pictured are 15x12"
I'm sure someone must have something close to that size


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

I'd get a pro HVAC guy in there to fix your transition from round pipe to register boot. It appears to be a large void next to it that would feed cold air in from the basement/crawl that would severely temper the air supplied from the furnace. He would also know the *size *of register to maintain your balanced system. 

Be safe, Gary


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I can install the register boot myself. Just looking for a register that big.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I cannot find a register that big. I think I will just install new drywall in that area. Cut the drywall straight across and install new. What do you guys think? In the process, I will install a new register boot and take out the old metal grill.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

good plan.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I plan on going to Home Depot during my lunch break. Here are the items that I am going to pick up. Please let me know if I am missing anything.

- Joint compound
- Drywall tape
- Register boot
- Register overhead panel
- New base moulding

I should mention that I have extra drywall at home.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Also, I was going to pick up a new circular saw blade to cut straight across the drywall or should I just use the current one that I have? Drywall isn't that hard. The one I have now might be 18 or 24 tooth. I forget.


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

A circular saw will make a LOT of dust and leave a very ragged edge to tape your new drywall to.Not to mention nicking electrical wires.Just use a razer knife and a straight edge and cut all the way through the existing drywall.Might take several passes with the knife.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Some areas of the drywall where I plan to cut across horizontally has plaster over it. About 1/8" thick. I guess I will have to buy a better quality razer knife. Don't want to deal with the dust.


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## Han'D' (Apr 7, 2009)

GBR in WA said:


> I'd get a pro HVAC guy in there to fix your transition from round pipe to register boot. It appears to be a large void next to it that would feed cold air in from the basement/crawl that would severely temper the air supplied from the furnace. He would also know the *size *of register to maintain your balanced system.
> 
> I would try to fashion transition myself rather than pay someone to snip tin. I would also clean up the space and add the decorative register for sure--nice touch!:thumbup:
> 
> ...


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

So I got everything I needed at HD. I bought a new boot register along with a 90 degree elbow transition.

My plan of attack is to cut out drywall a little past the studs on both sides.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

> However, what's with the outlet and the pho/data jack on the floor-is that code? Eye sore!! Whetether or not IMHO its unsightly and needs some attention. Why not take extra steps to move up behind the behemoth screen?:whistling2:
> 
> I'm just sayin'


Definite eye sore! It was like that when I bought the house. I plan on definitely cleaning that up!

There is a jack behind the TV on the other side of the wall. I run my wires through to the other side with a cable management plate.


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

You will want to cut your drywall down the centre of the stud so that you can screw the existing and the new tight together.By plaster did you mean lathe and plaster or drywall mud?Dried mud will cut with a knife.Once the drywall is off you could use a chisel on any lathe and plaster in behind.You would then have to shim the studs to get your new patch to the same height as the existing.Or maybe some 5/8 ceiling board.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

*How should I proceed? (updated pics)*

Ok, making some progress and isn't hard at all up to this point. I'm thinking cutting the drywall will be the biggest pain.

Also, I covered the black/white separately with wire nuts. I know this may not be code, but is this safe to do or will it spontaneously combust when I turn the breaker back on?

My dog keeping me company.










The vent is right there so I just need one more elbow extension and I should be good to go.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Also the studs are right at the left and right of the hole. 16" inches apart. Are all the studs 16" apart throughout the whole house? Just do that I know where to cut the drywall.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

llckll - technically speaking you cannot just wirenut those wires and leave them loose in the wall (makes for an ugly surprise for the next HOer, or for you in a few years - there's been a post recently by a guy who thought he remembered that the wires he left in the wall were not energized).

But for pete's-sake, get some tape and clearly label the wire with the breaker number and with a notation of whether it is Hot or not.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

So what happened to the guy? Will it spark a fire?


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Unfortunately that breaker controls other outlets.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm an electrical N00b too, for me, the best way to learn is to read about other's mistakes. http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/electrical-issue-60712/

Can you trace the BX back to where it meets up with the other parts of the circuit?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

It looks like these are accessible from the basement?
If so leaving them in the basement with wire nuts is fine
It will not spark a fire as long as they have the wire nuts installed correctly

You do need an outlet in that wall to meet code
So I assume you are putting it back ?

Studs in newer houses are usually 16" apart, in some cases 24"
Older houses can be 16".....24".....or anything else


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I will keep them in the basement for now until I fix everything else first. Actually it's beneath the floor next to the floor joists where it can be accessed from the basement. The wire nuts were a little small but I screwed it on with a little bit of force and it tightened. Is that ok?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes, as long as they won't come loose

Some people do put electric tape on them if the wire caps seem loose at all


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

I am going to Home Depot tomorrow so I'll pick up some black electrical tape and tape it up for extra measure.

Thank you.


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## willowgirl (Dec 26, 2009)

llckll said:


> Unfortunately that breaker controls other outlets.


If it controls other outlets wouldn't that mean there would be a junction box that the wire would be hooked in? If I'm right in thinking that, couldn't you turn off the breaker remove that one wire, close the box back up and turn the breaker back on? 
Or if it comes off another plug disconnect from there? I could be wrong but if its a possibility, I think it would be better than taking the chance of something happing with it. Lately it seems whenever your watching show's on things done wrong you see a lot of wiring just left in the wall.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

willowgirl said:


> If it controls other outlets wouldn't that mean there would be a junction box that the wire would be hooked in? If I'm right in thinking that, couldn't you turn off the breaker remove that one wire, close the box back up and turn the breaker back on?
> Or if it comes off another plug disconnect from there? I could be wrong but if its a possibility, I think it would be better than taking the chance of something happing with it. Lately it seems whenever your watching show's on things done wrong you see a lot of wiring just left in the wall.


You don't remove wires when you are going to be re-installing the outlet


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## willowgirl (Dec 26, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You don't remove wires when you are going to be re-installing the outlet


__________________________________________________________________________
He never said he was re-installing the outlet. ( I find the way you comment sometimes to be like your talking down or that I'm stupid. ) My response to him was my opinion about what I thought he was doing with those wires. He didn't say he was re-installing the outlet anywhere unless I missed it. I found where you told him he had to after I went back and read things because of your post about my comment. 

*You said to him:*
(It looks like these are accessible from the basement?
If so leaving them in the basement with wire nuts is fine
It will not spark a fire as long as they have the wire nuts installed correctly

You do need an outlet in that wall to meet code
So I assume you are putting it back ?)


You said You need an outlet in that wall to meet code. Code is different in different area's. Maybe you know the code for his area I'm not sure, but I think it gives a false since of security to be saying things like its code, and its ok if wire nuts are installed correctly. People sometimes think they have done things write when maybe its not. He did make a comment "The wire nuts were a little small but I screwed it on with a little bit of force and it tightened. Is that ok? "

I know that some of you are probably thinking i'm being argumentative, and that's not what i'm trying to do. I just think that we all interpret things different that we read, and that depending on where you live the codes may be different and may have changed. I do think its great to have a place like this for everyone to ask questions. But think we need to be careful with what we say and that maybe make it more of a suggestion to check into, than it has to be done this way or its ok, unless we are there looking at it and can see all the possibility's that the person may not recognize is a problem to include in there question.


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## willowgirl (Dec 26, 2009)

This is a link for Holmes inspection. I found this the other day and it deals with alot of electrical issues!!! This is part one, they go in order. I think there are 12, 20 min ones in total. I think anyone that is thinking of doing electrical, plumbing, venting for furnace or anything with gas lines should watch this. Its all the same house but one problem leads to the next and it shows how things weren't done proper and there is alot about electrical. I think at one point the electrician said it was basically a fire that was going to happen, just didn't know when. There were lines just like yours but 220 neatly wrapped tagged and the wire nuts you were talking about. It shows much more though to about the wiring and things that can affect it that wasn't noticed.

http://www.hgtv.ca/holmesonhomes/video.aspx

Holmes Inspection, Episode 01 - Pt. 1
Mike Holmes uncovers the myth that is the home inspection and helps a family get what they thought they had already paid for.


http://www.hgtv.ca/holmesonhomes/video.aspx
This jumps ahead to where they start discovering the electric problems. Wires in walls like yours.

I hope that i have the right links for you. I just have to say, this is great to watch and see things that aren't done correct so they will show how to fix some of it. It shows things done wrong and what affects it can have on home safety and health.


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## willowgirl (Dec 26, 2009)

This is from a hope improvement book, by home Depot. Theres lots of great info in there books that may be able to help with your projects.


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Good morning all.

During my cutting process, I nicked the romex cable and now it does seem to be transferring power. How can I fix this? Can I cut it, strip the wires and use wrie nuts and tape it back up with electrical tape?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

willowgirl said:


> He never said he was re-installing the outlet. ( I find the way you comment sometimes to be like your talking down or that I'm stupid. ) My response to him was my opinion about what I thought he was doing with those wires. He didn't say he was re-installing the outlet anywhere *unless I missed it*. I found where you told him he had to after I went back and read things because of your post about my comment.


Yes....you missed it
That code for an outlet is the same no matter where you live
If you interpret my post as talking down, then thats your interpretation
I made a simple statement


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Sorry but NO you cannot splice this damaged cable!!You MUST replace it from its two connection points(box to box or where ever).You could splice it as a TEMPORARY measure while you work on replacing it.Your idea of wire nuts on the ends of the other cable was is also a good TEMPORARY solution for your protection while you work around that area.Having a receptacle on that wall is probably code just about every where and you can rarely have to many of them.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

llckll said:


> Good morning all.
> 
> During my cutting process, I nicked the romex cable and now it does seem to be transferring power. How can I fix this? Can I cut it, strip the wires and use wire nuts and tape it back up with electrical tape?


Is this in the wall ?
Any splices need to be in an accessible junction box
In a wall this means having a cover plate viewable for access
Usually there isn't enough wire to splice as you need ~12" of wire
Where does it lead to/come from ?
Best bet if from the basement is put a junction box in the basement & run a new wire from there



daveb1 said:


> Sorry but NO you cannot splice this damaged cable!!You MUST replace it from its two connection points(box to box or where ever)


Yes you CAN splice a damage wire as long as it is done correctly & ALL splices are in an accessible junction box


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## llckll (Aug 24, 2009)

Guys, no need to argue. Everyone in this thread is giving me great advice and i'm learning so much as I go. This is the biggest project that I've done so far and I'm bummed that I have to replace the romex cable now :furious:

Since the romex cable is damaged, there should be no power in that line eventhough the breaker is on, correct?

Another trip to HD for 50ft. of 12-2 romex cable and a wire splitter. But if I did splice the wires, it should work, right?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If you shorted the wire while cutting it may (should) have tripped the breaker
This is usually what happens
But sometimes the breaker stays ON & there IS still power 
So there could be POWER - be careful !
I have a meter I use to check for power - they have inexpensive ones at HD

I also meant to say, if the TV is staying on that wall then you might want to put a junction box in the basement for the wire that was in the baseboard
Then run a new wire up behind the TV & install a recessed outlet box
That meets code for having an outlet on the wall, & gives you a place to plug the TV in that meets code
As I recall you have the plug going thru the wall to an outlet in the closet which is a code violation

The downside is that if you ever move the TV then you have an outlet in the middle of the wall


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Excellent points Scuba_Dave, I was trying to dissaude him from taping up a splice and leaving it.If he can leave the new box accessable then by all means just replace the easiest section and do the splice in a box.Putting the new receptacle behind the T.V. is a good idea and if the T.V. is removed the receptacle could easily be lowered and the drywall patched.


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

llckll, plan where you want your splice box before you go to HD.They sell most cables by the foot although for 12/2 you can by smaller rolls than 50 feet.Hopefully you dont have to go back to the panel.And do pick up a test meter.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

It would be very helpful in helping your figure out this situation if you could tell us whether the power from your panel to this outlet box comes from underneath, or if it comes through the wall. That would provide a starting point as to how to move the electrical box from the baseboard.

An electrical meter as was suggested by someone else can be had for ~$10 and would help determine where the source of the power is coming from. 

Another question is have you determined which breaker controls this circuit and what else is on this circuit?

Figuring out some of this information will help people solve this situation with you.


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## antlerdancer (Oct 6, 2009)

Just to give You some other ideas,if it is possable,can You attach some round duct to the present one,extend it into the room and put in Floor registers. This would clean up the wall nicely. If this would help then you could cut about a foot of the wall out to gain access for any wiring.Then You could finish with new base.


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