# Power Home Remodeling Group hard sell $35,000 Roofing estimate



## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

I tried several searches to find feedback on Power HRG. Surprisingly, nothing on DIYC. 

So, we have a serious roof leak at the chimney flashing and a few other small spots in our attic where water stains are visible. Several sheets of plywood are rotted. Yes, we are getting the chimney fixed first. :thumbsup:

So, we stopped by a local home show and agreed to let Power HRG come in and give an estimate on a roof. This was our FIRST estimate for a full roof. We already had an estimate of $2000 just to repair the leaks. :thumbup:

So, to make the long story short...the sales guy scared us away from every other roofer on earth, stayed for 2 hr 45 min, and resulted in an estimate of $35,000! After telling him "No way, you're nuts!" twice, the price dropped down to $24000 but only if we commit RIGHT NOW. Without any having any other estimates we turned him down and finally got him to leave just before 11pm. 

I was expecting a sub -$10000 estimate since my $2000 repair was going to yield roughly a third of my roof being replaced (I think) to get to the damaged plywood. I'm _a bit_ of an optimist. :whistling2:

Roof is just under 3200 sq ft. and pitch is about 7 ft / 28 ft. 2-story colonial. 3 separate roofs. Two wings are one story each and center section is 2-story. I'm getting ready to call a bunch of roofers for estimates. Based on the few threads I've read on here, I guess I'm looking at 12000-20000 for a good roof. Does that sound right? Anything specific I should look out for?

thanks


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No such thing as a 7 ft. / 28 ft. pitch roof.
You want a quote to include removing and disposing of all old shingles and trash.
Remove and replace all flashing, not replace if needed!
A price per sheet of sheathing to replace.
Make sure price includes drip cap on all outside edges not just the bottom edge.
Make sure there going to use 1-1/4 galvanized roof nails. No staples!
Just think if that other guy could find enough sucker to go with a price like that they could get away with doing 1/2 the work and make the same amount of money.
A picture of your roof would get better answers.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

16-20 Sounds like there is a lot going on. But i don't know how much roofers get in your area. I like certainteed landmarks. Go to there website see if they have a roofer in your area. Quotes are free.

http://www.certainteed.com/Locators/FindAProSearch.aspx


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Sounds like the classic 10 point sales pitch to me! Do you realize you just costed him 3-4 grand for his 2hrs and 45 min. of working on you. Shame on you! :laughing:

Generally speaking, the salesman you want is the same guy that's actually going to do the work.


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

joecaption said:


> No such thing as a 7 ft. / 28 ft. pitch roof.
> You want a quote to include removing and disposing of all old shingles and trash.
> Remove and replace all flashing, not replace if needed!
> A price per sheet of sheathing to replace.
> ...


Does this count as a picture of the roof? If not, tell me how close you want me to get and I'll snap a few more. Yes, that is moss growing on the shady half of the roof. A lot of it.








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I obviously don't know the correct way to measure a roof pitch. I just measured the height and the width. If triangle is 7 ft high and 28 ft wide then I would think the angle is 1 ft of rise for each 4 ft of run so 1/4 should be the same as 4/12. Is that right?


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

kwikfishron said:


> Sounds like the classic 10 point sales pitch to me! Do you realize you just costed him 3-4 grand for his 2hrs and 45 min. of working on you. Shame on you! :laughing:
> 
> Generally speaking, the salesman you want is the same guy that's actually going to do the work.


It was more like a 42 point sales pitch. He had an ipad with powerpoint slides, he had a little model house, he had samples of all the "exclusive" materials that they use that NO ONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY USES...on and on...

At lease we felt like we learned a lot about roofing. I'll think of it as a free training seminar. Too bad I couldn't get CE credits.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.pole-barn.info/roof-pitch.html


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

Oh right, that makes more sense. The whole roof is 28 ft wide, so I need half. Based on that number, that makes me a 7/14 roof or a 6/12 roof, I think. 

I'll take a square and a level out there tomorrow in the daytime and check it.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Ok buy pic. You have a lot of step flashing which is going to need to be done. Chimmey reflashed. Then its pretty straight foward. 35,000 NO WAY. 24,000 i don't think so.

Step flashing will be on the top section of house where it meets lower section. Make sure they seal it up good with ice and water shield. Also at least first 3 feet of roof in ice and water shield. Or you can go first 6 feet. Make sure the house has adequate ventilation on back. I can't see what is going on by pic. Where i live 14,000 would do this roof.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

First price $35,000 -
Dropped to $24,000?!?
You saved yourself many thousands of dollars by not signing now!
Rip-Off! 

$35.000?!?
What were they going to put on - Stain-less Steel?!? 

Also, not "flashing as needed" -
New flashing!
As "Joe" said above -
New drip-edge everywhere!

Go to a local roofing supplier and get the names of 3 roofers in your area -
Get quotes from them.
Don't neccesarily go with the cheapest!

Good luck!

"RF"


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Last year we got a quote to do my own house and garage.
34 sq. $14,000 for just the labor.
I ended up doing it myself. The materials where only $4463.00.
I'm lucky enough to have a tractor with a bucket on it and a dump trailer. I used the bucket to catch the falling shingles and to load the shingles up on the roof, and the trailer to hall the trash away.
It was a joke the way they had done this roof the last time.
They had nailed all the step flashing right in the 90 deg. corner, both low slope roofs had a 6" exposure on 3 tab shingles so you could see all the glue lines.
They had used 2" nails.
There was no H clips on the whole roof and the plywood was installed with no expansion gaps.
The plywood had the grade marks X out and the words defective stamped over it, a new one to me, never want to see that one again.
They had stopped the Hidden gutter hangers 6' from the ends of the gutters.
Used paper thin flashing on the chimney and just laid it against the side and used about a gal. of roofing tar to seal it.
One vent pipe had the collar installed backwards it was 180 deg. out.


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

I appreciate the feedback. I'd really like to NOT spend 5, 10, 15, or 35 thousand bucks to have someone else do this but even I (the eternal optimist) have limits. More on time than on abilities given the many resources online these days (like you guys). 

I build and repair my own cars including racecars that run 150 MPH and did my own kitchen including framing, electrical, cabinets, drywall, tile, etc (everything but installing the granite). BUT I did it all INSIDE. I don't have time for this and don't want to screw it up given the stakes and what is under that roof. The wife (who is extremely frugal) and I have agreed to pay the pros on this one while we handle the complete renovation of everything else inside. 

Again, I really appreciate all the advice, tips, and warnings!


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

Is there normally flashing where the two lower roofs meet the second floor tucked behind the aluminum siding? Would that need to be replaced? OR is the flashing only around the chimney?


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

yes this is step flashing it all needs to be replaced. Or i would consider it a half ass job. Also sealed up with ice and water shield.


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

Roger. So, the ice/water shield should go up those "joints" too?


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

Is the aluminum siding tight to the shingles? If so step replacement without damaging siding is unlikely. If the steps are in good shape I would reuse them.

Roof looks like a 4/12 to me.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Almost no way to replace step flashing behind that old metal siding.
Try to remove it from the bottom and it's going to get damaged.
Just slide storm and ice under it.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

We try to get folks to just rip it back uniformly because like the guys said, you won't get new under there without damaging the siding.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Of course the aluminum siding could be R&R damage free and all new flashings could be installed properly but that may take an extra 8 man hours on this project. 

God forbid anyone taking a those extra hours to do a so called 30 year roof right. :wink:


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## AndyWRS (Feb 1, 2012)

Was he quoting comp? 

I didnt see any mention of a roof type for these #s. A nice SS metal roof would cost you $24k more if you wanted SS or copper.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

"Of course the aluminum siding could be R&R damage free and all new flashings could be installed properly but that may take an extra 8 man hours on the project. 

So I wonder how many roofers would take the time to do that? :wink:"

I'll conjecture an answer -
Zero to none!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

rossfingal said:


> "Of course the aluminum siding could be R&R damage free and all new flashings could be installed properly but that may take an extra 8 man hours on the project.
> 
> So I wonder how many roofers would take the time to do that? :wink:"
> 
> ...


Sorry, I edited my post you quoted but the point didn't change.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Roofers aren't siders!
And, siders ain't roofers! 

I've seen what roofers can do to siding! -
seen what siders can do to roofing!

Sometimes - not pretty!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

rossfingal said:


> Roofers aren't siders!
> And, siders ain't roofers!
> 
> I've seen what roofers can do to siding! -
> ...


I agree for the most part but there are many that are well versed in both.

The sad thing is that it's rare that those who are will wear both hats at the same time.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

kwikfishron said:


> I agree for the most part but there are many that are well versed in both.
> 
> The sad thing is that it's rare that those who are will wear both hats at the same time.


There are not enough well versed in both.
Speaking as someone who had to run around and "pick up the pieces"
after both of those types (roofers - siders) of people.
It's sad!


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## PatChap (Nov 17, 2012)

rossfingal said:


> "Of course the aluminum siding could be R&R damage free and all new flashings could be installed properly but that may take an extra 8 man hours on the project.
> 
> So I wonder how many roofers would take the time to do that? :wink:"
> 
> ...


Ide like to meet the crew that could replace all those flashing's, R&R the siding in 8 man hours.
6 Skilled roofers would do that house in 8 hours, reusing the steps. To replace them would easily add an extra half day of work for the whole crew. Aluminum siding is _very_ easily damaged and I would probably end up taking down the whole wall to do it.

The only *quick* option would be to cut the siding and make a flashing, that I could see adding 8man hours to the job.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Who knows how fast and how good any number of people on any given job could do?!?
Ain't any two jobs the same.
What I know is the "OP" - didn't sign for $35,000!
(Good for him!)
Told him to get more estimates.
I haven't seen/walked/measured the roof -
all conjecture!


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

I thought it was vinyl. Where it would be no problem to remove first row of vinyl. I like joe's ideal. Just ice and water for the seal. Forget about new step flashing.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

kwikfishron said:


> Of course the aluminum siding could be R&R damage free and all new flashings could be installed properly but that may take an extra 8 man hours on this project.
> 
> God forbid anyone taking a those extra hours to do a so called 30 year roof right. :wink:


:laughing::laughing:

Is there a prize for the right guess.

We do it but we don't remove the siding. We cut it back and create a new trim detail there in lieu of the cut back siding. 

It is an option though and certainly has a cost associated with it but I think it would be included in a $35,000 asphalt roof.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

mystic_cobra said:


> Is there normally flashing where the two lower roofs meet the second floor tucked behind the aluminum siding? Would that need to be replaced? OR is the flashing only around the chimney?


It's aluminum siding.
If it's aluminum or vinyl siding -
we'd probably take the whole gable down -
make sure the "WRB" overlaps the step-flashing -
do the roof - put the siding back up.

Should have better picture(s).


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

AndyWRS said:


> Was he quoting comp?
> 
> I didnt see any mention of a roof type for these #s. A nice SS metal roof would cost you $24k more if you wanted SS or copper.


His quote was for a complete roof with asphalt shingles and lifetime warranty. I think they use GAF, IIRC. "The ONLY roof you will EVER buy!"


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## eharri3 (Jul 31, 2013)

Alot of people feel more comfortable using the bigger chain companies rather than independent guys for the bigger jobs because they think with a better known brand name they're less likely to get duped. 

Well, _someone _ has to pay all that overhead that goes towards the brand new trucks, laptops, IPADS, 1-800 customer service line, and salaried sales people they use to wow you into thinking you're signing up for top notch work.

Many of them have stacks of awesome reviews on Angie's list too, because most people have no idea how much they're being over-charged or how superior the work_ isn't._


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

Here's the pictures: 
garage faces south. 


leaks are around the chimney at the flashing at both levels.


This is the north end of the house. This area is shaded by the oaks nearly all day.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

mystic_cobra said:


> His quote was for a complete roof with asphalt shingles and lifetime warranty


Keep in mind that the installer is not warrantying anything. Its the shingle manufacturer that gives the warranty. And if the shingle manufacturer finds anything wrong with the installation, or if your attic ventilation is not proper, that warranty may not be worth the paper its printed on.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

SPS-1 said:


> Keep in mind that the installer is not warrantying anything. Its the shingle manufacturer that gives the warranty. And if the shingle manufacturer finds anything wrong with the installation, or if your attic ventilation is not proper, that warranty may not be worth the paper its printed on.


most likely not if, but when.


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

bbo said:


> most likely not if, but when.


I've been hearing this a lot and this is one of the things that the ..... from Power said several times. 

So, what do I do to make sure that the warranty won't be void WHEN a problem arises?

Is it necessary to get the roofer's contract to say in writing, "The roof will be installed per manufacturers instructions"? Is this enough?

You guys aren't giving me any confidence in any roofing company out there. I think maybe I should just do this myself. How hard can I be?


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

If you go to certainteed website and find a roofer in your area who holds SELECT ShingleMaster™ (SSM) Certification from Certainteed. You don't have a worry in the world pertaining to them honoring warranty.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

mystic_cobra said:


> I've been hearing this a lot and this is one of the things that the ..... from Power said several times.
> 
> So, what do I do to make sure that the warranty won't be void WHEN a problem arises?
> 
> ...


MC,

The same could be said for nearly every home improvement project.

Like the guys have said, do your research and you will therefore be able to sort through the crap vs. those that actually know what they are doing.

If you are relying on the terminology in the contract, you are probably screwed already.

Manufacturer's certifications are great and help with the enforceability of the warranty but are not a 1 shot deal for protection. The best thing you can do is understand what you are looking at and therefore vet the actions and proposal of the contractor. 

There are some projects like roofing and siding that are certainly doable by homeowners but because of the lack of ability to produce the job in a quick turn around and close up what will be an open home, are best left to larger and well managed crews.

:thumbsup:


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Anyone that tells me that I have to 'sign now' to get that deal gets shown the door and told not to return.

Don't even think about using them....time to get some more quotes.

A 'real' contractor will be the guy that stops by your house either in the morning or late evening (before or after a job) to look at what you have. He will have a ladder....he will climb on your roof....and most likely want to look in your attic...and his quote most likely will not be on the spot...but rather emailed or mailed to you in a day or so.

There is a lot of good info here on roofs...do some searching....get up to speed....

BTW....I would look for a local guy....when a contractor knows your a neighbor....he tends to take better care of you.

The contractor who did my stucco lived only a few blocks away. I will be inviting him to the house warming once I'm done.


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## RVR (Mar 11, 2009)

Here in Connecticut Power HRG is about 2 1/2 times higher than anyones prices. They do the hard sell (bullying tactics). I do see them working here, and there. The crews are all subs, and I have never EVER seen them do anything special. Very run of the mill, and basic at best.


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## mystic_cobra (Apr 18, 2011)

ddawg16 said:


> Anyone that tells me that I have to 'sign now' to get that deal gets shown the door and told not to return.
> 
> Don't even think about using them....time to get some more quotes.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the tips. I am taking this advice. I've already had some other estimates done and will be getting a few more once I get the masonry contractor chosen and scheduled. I need to get the chimney repaired before the roof. 

Seems like a silly question, but should I be scared by a low price? Even if this is the contractor suggested/referred by my insurance company?


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

yes. Insurance company's love guys who cut corners.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

RVR said:


> Here in Connecticut Power HRG is about 2 1/2 times higher than anyones prices. They do the hard sell (bullying tactics). I do see them working here, and there. The crews are all subs, and I have never EVER seen them do anything special. Very run of the mill, and basic at best.


 Seems to be the standard theme for salesmen. They aren't roofers even if they did pick up a hammer some time in the past. They have a vested interest in the 'sale' and the sale only. They have NO investment in the roofing job, the roof, or it's outcome. Glad you gave them the heave-ho.

Also, be very scared of the low price! Good roofers do bid to include R&R of the siding, as needed, and new flashing, so beware the one that doesn't even mention it. You'll likely run into a sub-par installation, or a huge change order.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

BTW, the way they keep changing and 'improving' the newer shingle products, Lifetime warranty seems to mean, 'When the Roof Dies'.


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