# Electrical Panel "cut-in" question



## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Hi people!

I have a 100 amp Siemens Electrical panel I have installed in a 24' X 24' garage I built outside my home.

My brother has been working on the electrical for me and doing a pretty darn good job.

However, I had one question I'd like to get an opinion on regarding the panel "cut-in" as he is completing the hook-ups:

The panel has two vertical silver colored bars on each side of the breaker bar.

My brother hooked up the neutral wires on the left side and the ground wires on the right side vertical bars.

After trimming the neutrals and grounds and hooking them up as just described, he noticed that the panel instructions stated that the ground wires should be hooked to the left vertical silver bar and the neutrals to the right side vertical silver bar - - which is the reverse of what he did.

HOWEVER - both the left side and right side vertical silver bars are connected together by a horizontal metal bar.... and my brother thought that it probably didn't make any difference that he had the side connections reversed from what the instructions recommended...because they were hooked together by a common horizontal bar anyway.

He said that it basically meant that they are one-in-the-same bar since they were tied together by this horizontal bar...and it wouldn't make any difference in their functionality or safety.

Here's a picture.... are we good as is??? Just double-checking...and thanks for your interest and comments to this post.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Nope, not OK:no:. The reason being that you have a 4-wire feed, which means that the grounds and neutrals must be separated. You must remove the bar that connects the two sides, and remove the green screw next to the incoming neutral and place it on the left side bar in the top empty hole. You don't have that many grounds and neutrals and it looks like you probably have enough slack to just swap sides.

You may be able to just move the incoming feeds to opposite sides, but I would just re-wire the branch grounds and neutrals.


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm not so sure that the box bonding (green) screw is so easily installed on the left side. If may be easier to just install a bonding jumper to a lug fasted to the enclosure. :whistling2:

That horizontal jumper bar will need to be removed.

One final question: Where does that bare wire go? Is it run all the way with the other feeder conductors in the conduit? :huh:

Did you install a ground rod at the garage? Where is the (bare) wire for that?


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> I'm not so sure that the box bonding (green) screw is so easily installed on the left side. If may be easier to just install a bonding jumper to a lug fasted to the enclosure. :whistling2:


Maybe, but it seems likely that the manufacturer would have included a means to bond that can to ground in case a 4-wire feeder was installed. I do believe it is the top hole on the left.





> Did you install a ground rod at the garage? Where is the (bare) wire for that?


Good question. Unless this garage is attached to your house, you will need to install a grounding electrode(s).

EDIT: I guess that big wire with white tape on it wasn't a good enough clue as to which side was neutral?:laughing:


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks guys - I'll pass this along to my brother...

The ground wire you ask about is for the ground rods...I'm going to install a piece of conduit to the bottom of the wall and out the garage's baseboard to the outside.... I have an 8' ground rod driven into the ground just outside the wall where the panel is...and another 8' ground rod about six fee beyond that which I will tie together. An electrician friend told me that it's now code to have two ground rods.

Thanks guys...keep an eye on this post if you don't mind as I might have a few other questions as we re-do this. THanks for your willingness to help out!!


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Oh...also...if some of the wires are not long enough to swap sides...is it "ok" to wire nut them to a jumper to get the length I need to reach the other side?

ALSO... the "green" screw on the right side of the box, attached to the vertical bar has a plastic shaft beneath it that the screw goes through and to the box... I don't see where the left side has a plastic shaft like that??

Here is a better view:


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> Oh...also...if some of the wires are not long enough to swap sides...is it "ok" to wire nut them to a jumper to get the length I need to reach the other side?


Yes, this is acceptable. You have plenty of room in this box.


> ALSO... the "green" screw on the right side of the box, attached to the vertical bar has a plastic shaft beneath it that the screw goes through and to the box... I don't see where the left side has a plastic shaft like that...


Exactly my point. You need to make the side with the green screw for the bare ground wires, and make the other side for your neutrals. But there is the problem of your main lug. 

Either move that main lug to the other side, ... OR... if that is not feasible, then you should employ the following procedure:

1) Remove the green screw.
2) Remove the jumper bar
3) Install a bonding jumper from the left bar to a lug mounted on the inside of the enclosure. You will have to drill and tap a hole and use a machine screw to attach the lug to the can. This will ensure the enclosure is solidly bonded/grounded.
4) Put all the insulated neutral conductors on the neutral side, and all the bare ground wires on the grounding side.
5) Upload a pic of your completed project so we can have a looksie :yes:


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

> Exactly my point. You need to make the side with the green screw for the bare ground wires, and make the other side for your neutrals.


Thanks for the reply kbsparky! Ok...so, I'm confused though.... the side with the green screw already has the bare ground wires...and the other side has the neutrals. My brother might know what you mean when I show him this... but can you elaborate for my education? Does this Siemens box have the green screw on the wrong side of the box? It seems odd that the box wouldn't be layed out the way it should be wired from the manufacturer...but I'm sure I'm just showing my ignorance of electrical work..LOL.

Also, as a side note... I have this box mounted between two studs...and there is a piece of plywood behind the box that I nailed to the backside of the studs...so I also screwed the box directly to the piece of plywood as well as the studs on each side. Does this pose any kind of problem for adding the "lug" and the "bonding jumper" that you mention?

I'm sending the link of this thread to my brother also for his review... so he can get a grasp of how this should be layed out...

Thanks a ton for your help...


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Todd, did the panel come with an accessory kit? Like a little metal strap? The reason I ask is, it seems highly unlikely to me that Siemens would not supply a means to bond the can in the case of a 4-wire feed. I don't think they expect you to move the lug. I suppose they could, but I just don't think that is the case. What is the model number for the panel?


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

> ... the side with the green screw already has the bare ground wires...and the other side has the neutrals....


Right. And it does seem to be backwards, when utilizing a 4-wire feeder.

There would not be another metal bonding strap, since they provided the green bonding screw. 

If you can't move that large lug to the other side, then you might want to see if you can purchase an accessory lug to do the same thing, such as this one:












Or this one:










However you configure this, remember these points:

1) Grounds and neutrals need to be kept separated.
2) The box bonding has to be accomplished on the grounding side.
3) The ground rod(s) connect to the grounding strip, with the bare wires.

Edit to add: I checked the Siemens web site, and discovered that they advocate using a separate ground bar when using a 4-wire feeder, instead of separating the neutral bars. While this is acceptable to the _Code_, separating them as we have outlined here is also compliant.


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## ACB Electric (Nov 29, 2008)

How about instaling a ground lug in the panel for the main ground and ground rod wire and a multi terminal ground strip or a couple smaller lugs (all with machine screws) to the back of the panel box, remove the bonding screw from the nuetral, and just use those 2 bars for the nuetral wires. I have never seen a panel configured like the one you show here, maybe its your area, I don't know, but all the ones we get here, even siemens (which I primarily sell) has the grounds on the enclosure and a removable bonding screw or jumper.


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

*Hi InPhase* - the panel did _not_ come with an accessory kit - *however* - check out some of these pics I took of the sticker inside the panel door...they say something about buying a bonding bar or lug for certain applications??

One of the following pics shows the model number of this panel....hope that helps.

*KB/InPhase* - can you read some of the info on these stickers? Does this explain anything to you? It seems like there are accessories I might need to get to achieve what you guys are explaining to me?:confused1:
*
Also, guys* - there are a few words missing on the first picture of a panel sticker... but it mentions something about "if you mount this box to a solid wall - - do this and do that." I have mine mounted to a piece of playwood??!!

Do these stickers help explain what I need to do??

Should I get a different panel box??

Thanks...


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> *Hi InPhase* - the panel did _not_ come with an accessory kit - *however* - check out some of these pics I took of the sticker inside the panel door...they say something about buying a bonding bar or lug for certain applications??


That's right, I almost forgot. They want to sell you a ground bar, so go down to Home Ripoff or Lowes and look in the panels section for the right bar.



> *Also, guys* - there are a few words missing on the first picture of a panel sticker... but it mentions something about "if you mount this box to a solid wall - - do this and do that." I have mine mounted to a piece of playwood??!!
> 
> Do these stickers help explain what I need to do??
> 
> ...


It says that you need to torque the green screw before you install it on a solid wall. But, once you get the bar, you will be removing that screw, so no problem.


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey InPhase/and KBSparky - anyway you guys could do a rough pencil sketch and upload them - on how this panel and it's wires should actually appear with the correct "ground bars" "bonding lugs" etc?

I'd like to get a visual on what all this means.... thanks guys!:thumbsup:


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

Get the ECLKB1 bonding lug and you'll be able to use the left bar as the ground bar after you remove the tie strap and bonding screw on the neutral(right) bar.
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdonlyres/2AC0FBF7-B3A5-4400-9BAD-0A133D9197FD/0/ECLKB1.pdf


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Ok..I'm thinking I'm starting to understand this - thanks guys and thanks Jerry.

Jerry - so, rather than get a 'separate ground lug' as pictured in kbsparky's link in his previous post - I can just get the bonding lug you linked to?

So, I need to do the following:



Remove the bar that currently ties both bars together.
Remove the green screw completely off the lug on the right bar.
Install the bonding lug that Jerry linked me to on the LEFT bar ( Get the ECLKB1 bonding lug and you'll be able to use the left bar as the ground bar.
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...D/0/ECLKB1.pdf
Take the white neutrals that are currently on the left side bar and swap them with the bare ground wires on the right side bar - so that the bare ground wires will then be on the left side bar and the white neutrals will be on the right side bar.
Is that it? Everything else is good?

What exactly attaches to the new green screw on the bonding lug which would be attached to the left side bar??

Thanks again guys for your patience and help.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> Hey InPhase/and KBSparky - anyway you guys could do a rough pencil sketch and upload them - on how this panel and it's wires should actually appear with the correct "ground bars" "bonding lugs" etc?
> 
> I'd like to get a visual on what all this means.... thanks guys!:thumbsup:


 
How about a photo of my panel? It is very organized, and it is very easy to see whats what. This is a 4 wire setup, Just like yours. Your panel should have an additional ground wire running to your ground rods as discussed earlier. 









You can clearly see how the ground are all attached to the ground bar which is bonded via the metal strap and green grounding screw to the panel box. The neutral bar is isolated via the insulated plastic holders.

Does that help?

Jamie


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

jerryh3 said:


> Get the ECLKB1 bonding lug and you'll be able to use the left bar as the ground bar after you remove the tie strap and bonding screw on the neutral(right) bar.
> http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdonlyres/2AC0FBF7-B3A5-4400-9BAD-0A133D9197FD/0/ECLKB1.pdf


This looks like the simplest solution here. Funny it was on a _Murray_ site. :huh:


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> This looks like the simplest solution here. Funny it was on a _Murray_ site. :huh:


Simple is always better. Add the lug, remove the tie, move the bonding screw, switch the neutrals and grounds, crack a beer.


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

So, to recap in my simple mind....



I should REMOVE the connector bar (between left and right sides)
Move the white wires over to the right side - where the #2 Neutral copper is coming into the panel from my house panel.
Move the bare ground wires over to the left side.
Attach a ground lug (on the left side of my panel) and attach my ground wire (coming in from my house pane) to this lug.
Move the green screw over to this lug and screw it in till it touches the panel OR connect a ground strap from the ground side to the box and screw the green screw into the metal ground strap through the metal box.
Ground rod wire goes from ground side terminal, through conduit to outside ground rod - attaches to that rod - then goes to second ground rod - attaches to that rod.
Finished.

Do I have this correct??

Thanks guys.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Maybe I'm just thick in the headyes, but I don't see how the Murray strap will be the simplest solution. I mean, first you have to find the strap. Then you have to mark the hole, drill the can, and tap it to accept the bond screw. Then install it. If he buys the ground bar, which is readily available at Home Depot or Lowes, all he has to do is screw it into the pre-drilled and pre-tapped holes provided by the manufacturer. 

Murray Bond Strap, tools required:

Drill
Drill bit
Tap
Screwdriver

Ground Bar, tools required:

Screwdriver


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Maybe I'm just thick in the headyes, but I don't see how the Murray strap will be the simplest solution. I mean, first you have to find the strap. Then you have to mark the hole, drill the can, and tap it to accept the bond screw. Then install it. If he buys the ground bar, which is readily available at Home Depot or Lowes, all he has to do is screw it into the pre-drilled and pre-tapped holes provided by the manufacturer.
> 
> Murray Bond Strap, tools required:
> 
> ...


According to the instructions, the box should already have a tapped hole. Are we talking about the same thing?
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdonlyres/2AC0FBF7-B3A5-4400-9BAD-0A133D9197FD/0/ECLKB1.pdf
If it's not, I agee the ground bar kit would be a better solution(although it does clutter the box a little more)

Update: After a little searching...it looks like that little lug is around $30. Just get the ground bar kit and remove the tie and bonding screw.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

jamiedolan said:


> How about a photo of my panel?
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> Jamie


Jamie, I don't want to nit-pick, but I sure would like to see that panel a little more tidy. After all the work you put into it, it would be a shame to let it look like a THHN bomb went off in it:laughing:. A few well placed zip-ties would make short work of it. Here's a couple of panels I just installed, the one on the left is new all the way back to the service equipment and contains new branch circuits. The one on the right is just a swap out and contains all the old circuits. And before anyone calls me out, the white wire attached to the breaker in the right hand panel did get colored red, but not before I took the pics!


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Jamie, I don't want to nit-pick, but I sure would like to see that panel a little more tidy. After all the work you put into it, it would be a shame to let it look like a THHN bomb went off in it:laughing:. A few well placed zip-ties would make short work of it. Here's a couple of panels I just installed, the one on the left is new all the way back to the service equipment and contains new branch circuits. The one on the right is just a swap out and contains all the old circuits. And before anyone calls me out, the white wire attached to the breaker in the right hand panel did get colored red, but not before I took the pics!


That looks much more organized than my panel. Do you group and tie the wire together in any particular order (i.e. grouping the neutrals?) or just bundle them all for neatness?

I still have atleast 6 more circuits I need to get fed into the panel, ends up being alot of wires.

RE: The OP's question, I must be missing something, if he swaps the neutrals and grounds and puts them on the correct bars, then why does he need to add the lug? The built in bar on the left says bond when lug is removed.

Jamie


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

jerryh3 said:


> According to the instructions, the box should already have a tapped hole. Are we talking about the same thing?
> http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdonlyres/2AC0FBF7-B3A5-4400-9BAD-0A133D9197FD/0/ECLKB1.pdf
> If it's not, I agee the ground bar kit would be a better solution(although it does clutter the box a little more)
> 
> Update: After a little searching...it looks like that little lug is around $30. Just get the ground bar kit and remove the tie and bonding screw.


I suppose it does have a hole, it just looks from the pics that it is a solid piece of plastic there. If the hole is indeed there, then perhaps the right hand tie strap and lug could be removed and placed on the right without buying anything?

And Todd, no matter what means you find to bond the can, be it ground bar or tie strap on the left, the rest of your list is correct. Remove the jumper between bars, and swap sides with the white and bare wires.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

jamiedolan said:


> That looks much more organized than my panel. Do you group and tie the wire together in any particular order (i.e. grouping the neutrals?) or just bundle them all for neatness?
> 
> I still have atleast 6 more circuits I need to get fed into the panel, ends up being alot of wires.
> 
> ...


Nothing special. The wires closest to the bar land first, followed by the ones further away. These wires are solid, so I didn't need to tie them, I just had to shape them. But a neat panel is easier to work in later on, and it doesn't take too much to make it that way. I figured you were adding more circuits, but wanted to get it out there that I am holding you to a high standard!:thumbup:


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Nothing special. The wires closest to the bar land first, followed by the ones further away. These wires are solid, so I didn't need to tie them, I just had to shape them. But a neat panel is easier to work in later on, and it doesn't take too much to make it that way. I figured you were adding more circuits, but wanted to get it out there that I am holding you to a high standard!:thumbup:



My panel is a mess. No, I didn't do it myself, I probably should organize it...


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone! Have a great week.


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## gregsauls (Nov 10, 2008)

I totally agree with the idea of a neat panel. Leaving wires long and routing them around the sides neatly allows for slack should you need to move a breaker or make other alterations. I did alarm system for years and having slack wire in a panel saved my rear many times!

Below is a picture of a panel update I did in my home about 3 months ago.


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

Grounds and neutrals must be seperated in sub panels.

Typically, I remove the jumper and green screw and terminate the neutrals on the right side. Then I run a jumper from the left side to the can and terminate all grounds.


OR....leave the jumper, remove the green screw and install a _ground bus kit_ which screws directly to the can and terminate all grounds there.


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Ok guys... here's what I did.... tell me if this will work and if it's a reasonable and SAFE solution:

If you refer to my original picture of the complete box and then compare it to the new one....

I did the following:


I purchased a new bonding lug and screwed it to the top of the left bar.
I then moved the incoming #2 Neutral from the right bonding lug and screwed it into the new left-side bonding lug...so that it was on the same side as the neutral romex wires.
I completely removed the horizontal bar connector so that the left and right side bars would be separate.
I moved the ground cable coming in from my house over to the right side with the other bare ground wires.
I fed in a "ground rod" wire into the box (conduit up to the box) and then attached it on the right-side bonding lug at the top of the right side bar. I ran the other side of this "ground wire" down through conduit and out my garage and attached it to a ground rod... along with a second wire that went another 6 feet out from the building and attached to a second ground rod.
I screwed the *GREEN *ground screw on the ground lug into the box all the way till it was tight.
Will this work - BE SAFE - and am I good to go now?? Thanks for reviewing this and giving me your advice.

Here are the pictures of the revised wiring job as described above:


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Looks good from here. :thumbup:


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Looks pretty good to me.

What do those wire nuts at the top do? (nothing wrong with them...just wondering.)


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

SWEET!!

Thanks KBSparky...:thumbsup:

The wire nuts up top are because we goofed up and cut a few [#12 romex] wires too short...so we added a jumper to extend the length so we could reach the various bars.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> SWEET!!
> 
> Thanks KBSparky...:thumbsup:
> 
> The wire nuts up top are because we goofed up and cut a few [#12 romex] wires too short...so we added a jumper to extend the length so we could reach the various bars.


I would do a continuity check with a meter to ensure that the netural bar is isolated from the ground and the rest of the panel. 
Jamie


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

jamiedolan said:


> I would do a continuity check with a meter to ensure that the netural bar is isolated from the ground and the rest of the panel.
> Jamie


Hah except that it's bonded at his main panel. There you go scaring him for no good reason.

In other words, he needs to pull the ground wires away or disconnect the neutral before doing this check.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Gigs said:


> Hah except that it's bonded at his main panel. There you go scaring him for no good reason.
> 
> In other words, he needs to pull the ground wires away or disconnect the neutral before doing this check.


Yes, thanks for pointing that out, if his other panel is his service entrance, then it would be bonded there, and would yeild a false result. All he needs to do to perform this test is to disconnect the ground wire that runs to his house, then the neutral bar should test as being isolated from everything else.

Thanks
Jamie


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## Gigs (Oct 26, 2008)

jamiedolan said:


> All he needs to do to perform this test is to disconnect the ground wire that runs to his house, then the neutral bar should test as being isolated from everything else.


Well, it's unlikely, but possible that the ground rod could throw off the results too. Usually a ground rod is a pretty high resistance path though, unless the ground is wet and salty. 

Also since they are uninsulated, he'll have to be careful not to let anything touch the case.

I think pulling the neutral would be the easier method.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Gigs said:


> Well, it's unlikely, but possible that the ground rod could throw off the results too. Usually a ground rod is a pretty high resistance path though, unless the ground is wet and salty.
> 
> Also since they are uninsulated, he'll have to be careful not to let anything touch the case.
> 
> I think pulling the neutral would be the easier method.


Yes, I see your point, however with your average meter, I highly highly doubt it is going to show continuity between the 2 due to the ground rods, unless they are touching...

Either way, your right the neutral would be easier to remove, WITH THE POWER OFF.
Jamie


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Ok...

So... I should pull off the "Neutral" #2 wire with the white tape on it going into my large lug on the upper left side of the panel - shown in the picture?

And then... with the power "off" test continuity between the left and right connector bars?

And it should show "NO" continuity? (Continuity would mean they "ARE" connected somehow?)

Then I'm good?

*NOTE: We don't have the two power #2 wires of this box connected into the bars at the house yet...will that affect the continuity test??*

The panel I show in this thread is my second panel..... attached (well, it's power wires aren't hooked up yet at the house panel) to my house panel.

I don't see how the left and right bars could still be connected.... ?? :confused1:


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> Ok...
> 
> So... I should pull off the "Neutral" #2 wire with the white tape on it going into my large lug on the upper left side of the panel - shown in the picture?


Yes



Todd-sta said:


> And then... with the power "off" test continuity between the left and right connector bars?


Yes



Todd-sta said:


> And it should show "NO" continuity? (Continuity would mean they "ARE" connected somehow?)


Yep-You might get very high resistance from the ground rods, if so, disconnect the ground as well.



Todd-sta said:


> *NOTE: We don't have the two power #2 wires of this box connected into the bars at the house yet...will that affect the continuity test??*


No



Todd-sta said:


> I don't see how the left and right bars could still be connected.... ?? :confused1:


This test is to make sure they are disconnected, so they are 100% safe.

They probably aren't.

I wouldn't need to do it, its a waste of time for me.


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks!! I'll do it.:thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> So... I should pull off the "Neutral" #2 wire with the white tape on it going into my large lug on the upper left side of the panel - shown in the picture?


No.:jester:


That is one of the more stupid things I've heard here. Jaime is a homeowner who is learning electrical. He is trying to be helpful but it really is dumb advice.

Should he test all his breakers too? Megger all the wires?

You can tell by looking at the construction of the panel that the neutral/grond buses are isolated via plastic stand offs from the can. No need to test anything.

You are good to go.


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## jerryh3 (Dec 10, 2007)

220/221 said:


> No.:jester:
> 
> 
> That is one of the more stupid things I've heard here. Jaime is a homeowner who is learning electrical. He is trying to be helpful but it really is dumb advice.
> ...


I wanted to see how far this would go. They were just getting to ground rod resistance...


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

If I took THAt approach I'd never get ANYTHING done :laughing:.

Hook it up, turn it on and move on to the next one :thumbup:


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

Ok guys... thanks! 

The ground bus does have the green screw that makes contact with the panel... but it still seems separate from the neutral bus because of the plastic standoff.

So... I am finally good to go? Just hook up the power wires at the house panel and crank that baby on?? Cool!

Thanks again everyone.


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Yes, should work good.


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Jamie, I don't want to nit-pick, but I sure would like to see that panel a little more tidy. After all the work you put into it, it would be a shame to let it look like a THHN bomb went off in it:laughing:. A few well placed zip-ties would make short work of it. Here's a couple of panels I just installed, the one on the left is new all the way back to the service equipment and contains new branch circuits. The one on the right is just a swap out and contains all the old circuits. And before anyone calls me out, the white wire attached to the breaker in the right hand panel did get colored red, but not before I took the pics!



Looks very nice. Top notch work right there:thumbsup:


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

rgsgww said:


> Looks very nice. Top notch work right there:thumbsup:


Thank you sir. I don't play. I quit school because of recess. I broke my radio because it played. I don't watch football, because they play...


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> Ok guys... thanks!
> 
> The ground bus does have the green screw that makes contact with the panel... but it still seems separate from the neutral bus because of the plastic standoff.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the confusion. I was looking at the photos of the diagrams on your box and got myself confused as to where your bonding point was. I just wasn't positive, so that's why I had mentioned test, Sorry if I caused you any concern. 
Now that I look at your photos of your panel, I see what the others here have mentioned, that it is an isolated bar. 
I'm sure it's fine, disregard my comment, I applogize for my confusion.

Jamie


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

220/221 said:


> No.:jester:
> 
> 
> That is one of the more stupid things I've heard here. Jaime is a homeowner who is learning electrical. He is trying to be helpful but it really is dumb advice.
> ...


 
Yes, I did get confused with his panel. When I first posted that comment, I thought he had not made any connections into his main, so I thougt it was a 10 second test.

Thanks for helping to clarify his situation.

Jamie


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## Todd-sta (Nov 8, 2008)

The lights are on!! Everything seems to have worked out perfectly!! Thank you all again for your assistance - great bunch of folks here! Have a Merry Christmas.


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## jamiedolan (Sep 2, 2008)

Todd-sta said:


> The lights are on!! Everything seems to have worked out perfectly!! Thank you all again for your assistance - great bunch of folks here! Have a Merry Christmas.


Excellent! Thanks for the follow up message to let us know that it all worked out!
Jamie


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