# Stripping off old paint



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

You do know with that many layers of old paint more then likly your dealing with lead paint, right?
I'd be using something like Safety Strip or Peel Away on that one to seal in the lead.
I've never once used steel wool when preping for paint.
Main reason is any specks left behind will cause rust stains.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

so dont use the heat gun?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Ask your wife if all your health and life insurance is paid up.
No heat gun no sanding!!


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

I am glad i asked as i did few windows before that, so I already screw myself probably. So how do i approach that? Get the stuff you recommended?
How this works?

thx


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

Peel Away Smart Strip stripper works pretty well and you can put plastic over it, as the key is to keep the stripper wet, so it stays activated. Once it dries out it doesn't do much.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

So moisturize with peel away.
Cover with plastic the whole window.
Wait until dries out and then what?
thx


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't do much stripping myself because of what you are experiencing- it is really labor intensive. And it is VERY hard to get all the paint, including oils that you drive into the wood, out enough to do a good job staining. 

Either plan on a darker stain, probably a masking (gel) stain, or reconsider repainting. 

And the lead thing is real. It's the dust that's the main thing, but heat guns are also a way to make it ingestible. Do a little googling on Paint Lead.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Set on staining then remove all the trim and replace.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I really don't believe those will ever get to stain grade. And I would also try the peel away.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Joe is right, you are pushing chain. There are labors of love and there are forlorn hopes, you have the latter. You cam Mimic what you have with a router and a nice small router table with round over bits and a couple others. The clear pine you will need will probaby cost less than all the stripper you will need. Some things simply are not worth it.

A cheapo particulate mask does not stop VOC's You need a real mask with VOC Canisters which will contain activated charcoal.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Yes, i know it will never look good, but I did that in the past in all other rooms and I was able to get some look I actually like.
It is not perfect, but at least looks clean. The old paint just looks disgusting.
I cannot remove all the frames as this is old building and we are not allowed to do so.
My mistake was I used the gun and thought it was safe. So far I am a live. In the past I started with stripper but it was nightmare.
I bough it at hope depot. (orange color) That's why I tried heat gut after that.
Last year I did 1 window and few years ago I did 5 doors and 3 windows. 
Yep that is so much work. That's why I look for a easy way if there is one.
Attached few photos of what i did in the past.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Those look pretty good. at least you have maple and didn't find some crappy fir underneath.
As far as the Peel away- they have several types and have pretty good instruction info to go with them. Go into a real paint store like SW or Ben Moore- PPG- who ever you have in your area and ask them for the right type. Pretty common product. But not at HD.


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## housepaintingny (Jul 25, 2009)

blwegrzyn, the photos of your past stripping and staining projects look good. Peel Away will work and make wood stain grade again. I have literally used a few thousand gallons of Peel Away products in the past few years for exterior and interior paint and stain stripping projects, so I am familiar with Peel Away, other wise I would not recommend it. I recommend the smart strip line, as it does not contain methyl chloride which is caustic and is in most strippers, so it is a little safer to work with. It is also water base.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

i bought one at amazon:
http://www.dumondchemicals.com/home-peel-away-smart-strip.html

The best price i could get 50 square feet should be enough to finish with 2 windows and 2 doors i have.

I hope i will not die!!!

I checked on that lead before and i though i was ok, but the house was built in 1929 so the paint it must be lead based.
I want to finish this so at least it looks clean as those windows are really bad when paint over and over and over.

thank you all for smart advices

i will update this page when i am done


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

The lead thing is somewhat overblown, but it has some reality to it. It is mostly bad for developing children. 
Take precautions like cleaning up really well, washing your hands before eating after working on the wood etc. 
Death is not at all common so don't stress out.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

What you did looks great. I admire your persistence. I would never do that for someone else, and the maddening part is that the landlord can make you put it back the way it was when you leave if he's an ass.

Don't worry, you aren't going to die, you might just slur your words a little bit and forget where you are once in a while but nothing serious.

If Joe and I are still alive after the things we've done you have nothing to worry about, about, about. 

:huh:


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

The first word in paint is PAIN...


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

so i removed main layers of paint. Initially i tried the smart strip but it was weak. I contacted the manufacturer and they recommended the peelaway1.
But, the problem i get is strange discoloration on wood. Should i wait until it dries out and the try to send it? It sucks that after so much work the wood looks like crap, but the paint is gone!!!
I am supposed to do last step to clean the PH levels but this is supposed to be done when all is dry.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Just looking over this thread, I'm impressed with your persistence. Looks good! 
Now that you have removed all the old paint it should be safer to sand the wood. Washing it first with tsp, or some other lead dust control product would help make sure all the lead is gone. Lead dust is so fine it can be there and not be visible.
A lot of stripper systems recommend using an oxalic acid brightener after stripping to help with the discoloration. I've never used it inside on trim, but the brightener really works good to bring back the natural color of the wood.
Check your system for compatibility. The ox acid is a lot easier to work with than stripper.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

the original product comes with:
http://www.dumondchemicals.com/home-citri-lize-neutralizer.html

i will use it when all is dry.
Is above same as tsp?

Any recommnedations for oxalic acid brightener?
When to use it?
When all is dry and cleaned?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Probably don't need to through tsp into the mix with this, I was just thinking of lead safety. Going by your systems recommendations is best. 
If when all the steps to your system are complete, the wood is still discolored oxalic can be used as a final step.
Ox acid is also used as a neutralizer, but I wouldn't recommend substituting, or changing the recommended system.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

do you apply oxalic everywhere or only darker parts of wood?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Everywhere. The neutralizer you are using appears to be pure citric acid. Citric is often used in conjunction with oxalic in wood brighteners. 
Still don't mix them. I don't see why you couldn't use it after.


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

From the pictures, the wood looks like it has been patched.It looks like poplar in the photos, but I may be wrong. I don't think it is going to be stain-grade wood. If that's what you want, I would suggest brand-new wood.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

yep it is not perfect, my plan is to stain it and get whatever effect i end up with, like i did with the wood in the photos i attached earlier.
Before i used heat gun and stripper.
This time only peelaway1.
It still will look cleaner then painted 30 times.
Yep I don't think i can get perfect wood feel.
I just cannot stand that 30 layers paint.
I wonder if i bought the apartment 7 years ago, should i know that my wood frames were lead paint?

Only something like this:


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

It would depend on what year the building was built. Most paint stores sell lead-test kits I think 1972 was the national cut-off year for lead in architectural coatings.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

If this house was built in 1929 the chance of lead pain being present is high; 75-80% likely. Now that you have all the paint off, it's a lot safer to work on the trim. But still be cautious about any mess you made, as chips left on the floor can still pose a hazard. 
One thing about cleaning up the mess from this project is a regular shop vac filter won't stop lead dust. It's just too fine. A good hepa filter will help, but due to the design of almost all shop vacs, lead dust in the system will "belch" out every time you turn it on. Wear a mask during clean up. Wet clean up is safer. 
Lead paint was banned in 1978


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Btw, I like the look your getting better than old paint too. I've seen trim in fancy houses get beat with a chain to make it look "distressed" on purpose. Call it "rustic" or something


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Finally, I am getting closer to staining and painting the walls.(had to take brake from this crazy project) When my place went through the condo conversion new drywall was overlaid over the old plaster which made the window frames look almost embedded into the wall. I decided to add extra wood so at least the spacing looks good. Attached are the photos how it looks now.
I have a question about using the joint compound to fix the holes.
What joint compound would you recommend?
On the right side of the window I was planing to just use the standard multipurpose joint compound. I though about caulk, but I think due to the fact that the walls are uneven I thought that joint compound would just work fine. On the left side of the frame where i have the wall I have bigger holes, and i wonder what to use to fill those? Should i just stick some paper inside and go over with the compound or use some kind of spray foam?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> Finally, I am getting closer to staining and painting the walls.(had to take brake from this crazy project) When my place went through the condo conversion new drywall was overlaid over the old plaster which made the window frames look almost embedded into the wall. I decided to add extra wood so at least the spacing looks good. Attached are the photos how it looks now.
> I have a question about using the joint compound to fix the holes.
> What joint compound would you recommend?
> On the right side of the window I was planing to just use the standard multipurpose joint compound. I though about caulk, but I think due to the fact that the walls are uneven I thought that joint compound would just work fine. On the left side of the frame where i have the wall I have bigger holes, and i wonder what to use to fill those? Should i just stick some paper inside and go over with the compound or use some kind of spray foam?


If you have the wood prepped to where you want it now, or close, I would think about going ahead and finishing it before you try to seam the dry wall to it. Or at least get it to the point right before the final coat of finish clear. 
Having sealed wood to work to, rather than raw/cleaned wood is easier to me. You don't have to worry about the wood absorbing traces of Sheetrock or caulk if its sealed. 

Multipurpose mud would probably be fine for the big crack on the left. I've seen that done in several houses. With that thick/wide of an application, it can crack easily, but there's not usually a lot if movement on interior trim. I have put a thin layer or caulk over wider muddled cracks like that to provide some flexibility. 

Filling it completely with an elastomeric caulk, is maybe more stable overall, but its harder to get it looking smooth, hard to sand caulk. 

Either way, the spray foam, even the non expanding kind, is difficult to use for an application like yours without making a mess. 
Foam filler rope will give you a solid, and even, foam backing for your mud/caulk. It comes in different diameters, you want it a little bigger than the crack so it fits snugly.... Or just stuff some paper towels in it. 

This is a piece of the 3/4 (I think), it comes in small rolls. I carry it because its handy and gives you a uniform backing if you get it in right. 

Looks like you got a lot of the hard stuff done:thumbsup:


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> so dont use the heat gun?


NO!

More people and contractors burn down old buildings using heat guns and torches than probably anything else, not only is the fire risk great, but you are essentially burning _lead paint_ and the fumes will be toxic.

Liquid stripper is what to use, or replace the flat boards if that's all they are.
Sometimes it's just easier and quicker to replace centain boards than trying to strip 30 layers of lead paint off a board that was nothing but a low priced trashy paint grade pine or spruce to begin with that was meant to be painted.

A co-worker tried to give me a pickuptruck full of old salvaged boards from a hotel's interior door openigns and windows, they were flat but fluted, 5" x about 7' long, but just cheap softwood under layers of old paint.
As a test I tried stripping the paint off one, it took a quart of stripper to get it clean! for what the stripper cost to strip each board I could buy new OAK boards and run a router on them, and that's what I did.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

jagans said:


> Joe is right, you are pushing chain. There are labors of love and there are forlorn hopes, you have the latter. You cam Mimic what you have with a router and a nice small router table with round over bits and a couple others. The clear pine you will need will probaby cost less than all the stripper you will need. Some things simply are not worth it.


Exactly, this looks like just the cheapest paint grade softwood they used because they were going to paint it, for what the cost of stripper is, you can replace with much better hardwood like oak.
I can get real nice white oak for about $2.90 a bd foot, I can also get walnut, cherry, poplar.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

RWolff said:


> NO!
> 
> More people and contractors burn down old buildings using heat guns and torches than probably anything else, not only is the fire risk great, but you are essentially burning _lead paint_ and the fumes will be toxic.
> 
> ...


I am a contractor and have never burned down a building with a heat gun yet. Not saying this should encourage you to go out and get one thinking you could not start a fire. 

Lead fumes are no more toxic than most of the other stuff you would vaporize. Lead is a heavy metal. It will be not be in the vapors but what you scrape off. 

Your goal in stripping paint or other finish should always be to use the method that creates the least amount of heat---from either chemical or physical abrasion (sandpaper spinning at high speed). 

1. You would be really surprised what you can sometimes get off with a SHARP drag type scraper. Or a contour shaped scraper set. Then sandpaper.

2. Try a modern, safe, chemical gel stripper.

3. Some of the old ones that worked fast and quick had vapors that were explosive.

4. Buy or rent an infrared stripper. They will melt layers of paint without hurthing the substrate material.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> If you have the wood prepped to where you want it now, or close, I would think about going ahead and finishing it before you try to seam the dry wall to it. Or at least get it to the point right before the final coat of finish clear.
> Having sealed wood to work to, rather than raw/cleaned wood is easier to me. You don't have to worry about the wood absorbing traces of Sheetrock or caulk if its sealed.
> 
> Multipurpose mud would probably be fine for the big crack on the left. I've seen that done in several houses. With that thick/wide of an application, it can crack easily, but there's not usually a lot if movement on interior trim. I have put a thin layer or caulk over wider muddled cracks like that to provide some flexibility.
> ...


thank you


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

sdsester said:


> I am a contractor and have never burned down a building with a heat gun yet.


Good, but these folks DID, and others are sure to in the future:

On November 20, 2001, contractors using open flame torches and heat guns on the cupola supporting the building's gold dome accidentally set the cupola on fire. Golden smoke rose from the Old Capitol Building as the dome burned. 
The bell at the top of the Old Capitol was irreparably damaged, the dome was destroyed, and the tens of thousands of gallons of water used to douse the blaze caused major damage. The University of Iowa later settled a lawsuit with the contractors for $1.9 million










_May 4, 2007 – A construction worker using a heat gun probably caused Monday's three-alarm fire at the Georgetown public library branch, Fire Chief Dennis *...*
_
_Mar 30, 2012 – Division chief Lyle Schwartz said the fire was caused by the occupant after he was stripping paint on the exterior wall with a heat gun.
_
A _heat gun_ being used by a contractor to dry plaster a wall in a Scarsdale home overheated, _causing_ wallpaper or a drop cloth to catch _fire_, said Scarsdale _Fire_ *...

Heat gun causes fire
* A house at 1408 E. Maine was damaged by fire about 12:39 p.m. Sunday.
Fire Capt. Mike Sears said the occupant was scraping paint with a heat gun and it got too hot. The fire started in the attic over the front room.
Firefighters had to remove some siding and the living room sustained damage. There were no injuries.

Feb 1, 2013 – METHUEN — A _heat gun_ being used to defrost a freezer _caused_ a _fire_ that destroyed a one-car, detached garage at 19 Lexington Ave. around 

Aug 29, 2011 – SWANTON — An accidental _fire_ that destroyed a Swanton Hill Road residence Sunday was _caused_ by a _heat gun_ that ignited combustibles, *...*Mar 5, 2013 – The Town of Beloit _Fire_ Department battled a blaze Monday morning after someone tried to warm up his frozen water pipes at his mobile home *...*

Oct 25, 2009 – Authorities say a _heat gun_ used to remove paint from a South Bend home was the _cause_ of a minor _fire_ early Sunday. _Fire_ crews were sent to *...*
Sep 15, 2010 – After last year's _fire_ that I _started_ while _heat_ gunning the exterior of our 1888 Victorian, I _started_ researching alternative methods of _paint removal_ *...

*The Dangers Associated with Torches, _Heat Guns_, and other Thermal Devices for _Paint Removal_. Updated July *...* Buildings catch _fire_ because of these practices. Irreplaceable *...* ignited and a _fire started_ in the room adjacent to the Oval Office
www.dhr.virginia.gov/pdf_files/Burning*Paint*1.PDF‎

*Using heat gun starts fire*

www.odt.co.nz
Mar 22, 2013 – *...* after his _paint_-_stripping heat gun_ set his bathroom on _fire_ yesterday *...* It appeared the _fire_ was _started_ in the bathroom's window-sill

Jul 11, 2011 – CLINTON — A house _fire_ at 70 Center St. which _caused_ extensive damage *...* revealed that somebody was using a _heat gun_ to _remove_ old _paint_.

Exposure to lead-_paint_ dust or chips can _cause_ serious health problems. *....* _Heat guns_ pose a _fire_ hazard, and make lead dust and vapors, so they should be *.*..
www.health.ny.gov › Lead‎

May 26, 2013 – Investigators determined that a _heat gun caused_ a Sunday _fire_ that damaged a Hill Avenue home, according to a news release from Police Sgt.


The danger is greater on old buildings. Flammable debris, including animal nests, sawdust, 
lint, and cobwebs, accumulates in joist pockets, attics, and other recesses. This debris can be 
easily ignited by blowtorches, and it can also be ignited by the lower temperatures created by heat 
plates or heat guns. Fires started in such recesses can smolder for hours before flames break 
through to the surface.
Even if the surface to be stripped of paint is a non flammable material, such 
as metal or masonry, torches or heat guns can ignite nearby flammable materials. The fire at the Stonewall Jackson School was caused when torches ignited the wood backing behind the metal cornice.
If paint removal is indicated, property owners should specify safer measures for removing 
paint. The Department of the Interior's Preservation Brief
 no. 10, "Exterior Paint Problems on Historic Woodwork," is available without charge from the Department of Historic Resources. This publication describes the adv antages and disadvantages of a wide range of paint removal techniques.

The Department of Historic Resources can answer questions on safe paint removal 
procedures. Contact Bill Crosby at (804) 367-2323 for additional information


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

So i am close to staining, but before i do it i want to make sure i don't screw anything and I don't paint with wrong color. It took me too long to get to this point.
The stain that was used in that room was done by previous owner, and i am trying to replicate the color. All other rooms were done by me, but i had a can of stain that had no label. It just worked for the job.

Attached show old color. When I sand it a little at the point where i want to blend it with new stain I see there is some white color that looks like paint and then bare wood.


















What color of the stain it might be? And what type?

My plan is to go with red mahogany, but i am not sure if this is the same? I am curious what is that white stuff? Might it be all in one stain and poly?

I also found some old can with RED OAK color?
Could this color be a red oak?

The test piece of wood i stained seems to look similar but little darker and it does not have any poly yet. For the test i used red mahogany.
I tested on pine and probably my wood is maple?


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> Attached show old color. When I sand it a little at the point where i want to blend it with new stain I see there is some white color that looks like paint and then bare wood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mainly prefer Minwax oil stains, and have used both Red oak and Red mohogany, I found them so close to one another in end results they may as well be the same stain, the difference is so slight .

What species of wood you test stain will have a huge difference in the end color, you simply won't get the same color or coverage with maple as red oak, or oak v/s pine.
It's awfull hard to tell what wood this is from pictures like these, I suspect it's likely a softwood and if so then staining softwood is another whole issue due to getting blotchyness. I've used a stain controller on poplar, it helps even things out.


Here's Minwax red mohogany oil stain on white oak, I wouldn't hold the color to perfection since it's a bit redder than this in person.
Your trim also likely has varnish on it which has turned color a bit too, but this looks close:


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

RWolff said:


> I mainly prefer Minwax oil stains, and have used both Red oak and Red mohogany, I found them so close to one another in end results they may as well be the same stain, the difference is so slight .
> 
> What species of wood you test stain will have a huge difference in the end color, you simply won't get the same color or coverage with maple as red oak, or oak v/s pine.
> It's awfull hard to tell what wood this is from pictures like these, I suspect it's likely a softwood and if so then staining softwood is another whole issue due to getting blotchyness. I've used a stain controller on poplar, it helps even things out.
> ...



Yes, I also want to stick to MinWax as it is known brand and will never disappear so i can buy same color at later time.
The wood on left is a piece of pine bought at home depot.
The original wood is probably maple? (I am not an expert so no idea)









So what is that white stuff?
Is it just the varnish?

Would the wood look reddish with the varnish?
And with every layer it gets more colorful?
The stain i have is like 7 years old, but the box looks like new and was full, so I wonder if i should get a new one?
I plan to use clear semi gloss varnish on it.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Could be wrong (probably) but the grain looks more like oak than maple at least to me. May want to post the pics on the woodworking forum to get help on the species.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

i did more experimentation and turns out that there was lots of color at the bottom of the can that did not mix through shaking. I mixed it by hand and now i can get lighter reddish color. The 1st and 2nd (counting from left) is actually same color as 5th. (red Mahogany minwax) The 3rd and 4th is old stain i found called Rich Mahogany by old master. I will go with 5th and semi gloss Polyurethane.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

I asked question about white stuff on wood forums and i was told:
"
The white looks like the base color for wood graining to me. It's essentially paint made to look like wood done with a glaze that someone paints the grain on. If that is what it is the wood is first painted white to cover the natural wood then the lighter color of the woodgrain is painted on and then the dark part of the grain is painted on to simulate real wood grain. If you are going back with a oil stain then it's important to get all of the paint off. 
"

I removed all of it where i want to stain to draw a line between old and new stain so some day at later time i will redo the other part of the door frame, but for now i want to finish this little room as doing stuff after hours takes forever.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> Yes, I also want to stick to MinWax as it is known brand and will never disappear so i can buy same color at later time.
> The wood on left is a piece of pine bought at home depot.
> The original wood is probably maple? (I am not an expert so no idea)
> 
> ...


The white stuff? you mean sapwood? boards will have sapwood on them and it doesn't take the stain the same as the rest. Or it could be as someone else said, some kind of woodgraining base color, if you can scrape or sand it off that's what it is, if it goes into the wood itself it's sapwood or discoloration in the board itself.
Still hard to tell on the wood species, easier to tell by how heavy the actual board is, but then youn you need to be familiar with the different woods to use that method.
How the board is cut- qtr sawn, flat, rift can also confuse the eye.
If you can't hammer a nail into that board without bending it, it's hardwood, so if you see any common nails sticking out like some use to hang coats on etc, it's probably softwood because trying to get a nail into maple or oak with a hammer is like trying to nail a board to a concrete wall.

I would not use varnish, it takes forever and a day to dry and stays sticky till it does, I prefer the water based polyurethane and it has excellent reviews. You can put a coat on and it's dry in an hour or less, no fumes.
Varnish tends to make wood look amber not reddish, you might be thinking of orange shellac which tends to give a color between amber and a slight reddish orange.
Let the STAIN do the coloring, the clear coat do the protecting.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

RWolff said:


> The white stuff? you mean sapwood? boards will have sapwood on them and it doesn't take the stain the same as the rest. Or it could be as someone else said, some kind of woodgraining base color, if you can scrape or sand it off that's what it is, if it goes into the wood itself it's sapwood or discoloration in the board itself.
> Still hard to tell on the wood species, easier to tell by how heavy the actual board is, but then youn you need to be familiar with the different woods to use that method.
> How the board is cut- qtr sawn, flat, rift can also confuse the eye.
> If you can't hammer a nail into that board without bending it, it's hardwood, so if you see any common nails sticking out like some use to hang coats on etc, it's probably softwood because trying to get a nail into maple or oak with a hammer is like trying to nail a board to a concrete wall.
> ...


Never though about using water based varnish. I still have a can of oil based varnish.

http://theflooringgirl.com/featured...h-is-bes-for-refinishing-hardwood-floors.html


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> Never though about using water based varnish. I still have a can of oil based varnish.
> 
> http://theflooringgirl.com/featured/oil-vs-water-based-polyurethane-which-is-bes-for-refinishing-hardwood-floors.html


The water base Polly is nice. A whole lot easier to work with to me. 

But if your doing one side of the casing and trying to blend it in.. Switching to WB now might not be the best idea. Oil and latex both have some effect on the appearance of the stain, but in totally different ways. 


Btw, the white stuff has me stumped..?.. Maybe some old sap that had seeped out under the finish and was exposed when you sanded...


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> The water base Polly is nice. A whole lot easier to work with to me.
> 
> But if your doing one side of the casing and trying to blend it in.. Switching to WB now might not be the best idea. Oil and latex both have some effect on the appearance of the stain, but in totally different ways.
> 
> ...


According to what other person pointed out this is the base color for wood graining.
I removed parts of it yesterday and it must be it as it is even and same everywhere. So who ever did the "staining" faked it with above.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> Never though about using water based varnish. I still have a can of oil based varnish.


I've used water based polyurethane a lot over the years, including refinishing a wood floor at work about 13 years ago, it's starting to show wear now quite a bit in spots but no surprise there with the foot traffic, hand trucks, dollies, heavy stuff DRAGGED over it, things dropped on it.

That flooring girl site has her opinions like everyone does, and she does FLOORS, floors are a whole different ball of wax from trim and furniture. I've read actual lab tests on it done by a woodworking company, and their review and results favored the water based slightly over the oil based in hardness etc but the ease of use and no smell got high ratings. I have not noticed it take any more coats to get thickness, in fact you CANT apply oil based stuff heavily anyway because it stays liquid so long it will run and sag, you can apply a pretty good coat of the water based because it starts to dry very quickly, and shortly after you can lightly sand and apply another coat etc.

Flooring girl seemed most concerned about wanting the "richness of the amber color" from the oil product, and if that's THE important critical thing to you, then go ahead and use varnish and wait 3 days for it to dry and smell it in the air for weeks afterwards.
Water based _IS a clearer finish_, i.e. it doesn't have that yellowish/amber tone, which is why I say let the STAIN do the color you want. The water based urethane can be tinted if you prefer too.

I used water based on a pine floor made from ordinary 1x6 boards I put in temporarily in one room whose floor was so bad I HAD to cover it with something untill I had the budget and decided firmly on what permanent floor I wanted, the water based polyurethane held up fine even with large dogs for years.

Minwax makes it so that is a good brand to go with, Cabot also makes it and that's a good stain I've used, but there are other brands.

*Stay away from Watco stains* if you want to use a waterbased polyurethane!
I didn't know it, and the cans did not say it, but about 15 years ago I refinished a dining room table for a neighbor, she selected the stain she wanted, it was Watco, and I decided to use the water based poly over it.
All went nicely untill I started brushing the polyurethane on- it started to bead up!
I went to the hardware store and they called Watco, NOW we learned that Watco stains have WAX in them, which is what helps make it the so called "complete oil finish" that you supposedly don't have to top coat. You can use oil based polyurethane over Watco but not water based.

I had to resand the table back to bare wood, restain with Minwax, and then the water based polyurethane and it turned out gorgeous.

You can use water based over Minwax with no issues.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Let me be the naysayer here and say I really don't like the WB poly and will avoid it at all costs. I never thought it gave the rich look of oil. Not to mention the extra step of raising the grain then sanding the fuzz off. I will admit they have gotten better over the last few years, but not good enough. I have to say I have used Min Wax for years, just lately I tried Cabot and was pleasantly surprised. I have a question about finishing, think I'll start a new thread even though painting forum.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Last question before i start to stain.
I did the final wood cleanups, sanding and finishing with the steal wool (super fine) and lastly i sprayed the wood with the water and then i noticed that the wood would have different colors and shades when reacting to the water. Once it dried out it looks more uniform and same. So I wonder, if the wood would react to the stain the same way it does to water. I checked the PH of the wood and it was 7 so it should be ok to stain. I am just afraid to start staining to find out that all will look like crap. I guess I can always put more layers of stain to make the wood look more uniform.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

As long as it all absorbed the water, and didn't bead up anywhere, that's a good indicator that it will accept stain. And the differences you are seeing could be color variations in the wood, that will be accented some with the stain, but not necessarily look 'bad'

If the wood is absorbing water at different rates in different spots, that could be a problem.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> As long as it all absorbed the water, and didn't bead up anywhere, that's a good indicator that it will accept stain. And the differences you are seeing could be color variations in the wood, that will be accented some with the stain, but not necessarily look 'bad'
> 
> If the wood is absorbing water at different rates in different spots, that could be a problem.


attached shows the wood before and after applying the water.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Since you already used the steel wool 1 word of caution CLEAN everything as best you can then clean it again. All those little pieces of steel wool will rust and show in your finish. Especially since you already washed it with water. Any time you are going to use water or water based any thing DO NOT use steel wool.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

I decided to do it and be done with it. Initially while I was staining the color was the way i wanted and then it went darker. I must accept what I was able to do. Probably the wood was affected by the striping process as on test pieces I was able to get the color i wanted. Probably if i put one more coat i will get richer color but i don't think it is worth it. Now it is time to protect it and fix the walls and complete this crazy project.
Attached the results.
Without help of this forum i would probably ended up with black wood!!!


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Looks a lot better :thumbsup: 

It would be a good idea to seal it once, when its good and dry, before starting the dry wall.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Looks a lot better :thumbsup:
> 
> It would be a good idea to seal it once, when its good and dry, before starting the dry wall.


Yes, i will seal it with oil Polyurethane clear or semigloss


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

my guess is that if i go with semi gloss it will change the look a little bit and make it more brighter and yellowish
i have three stains at home
the old masters I used before is pretty nice (see attached)
but it was put over wiping stain
it is the freshest I have so i was thinking to use it and due to semi gloss look i hope it will make the dark stain look brighter?


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> Let me be the naysayer here and say I really don't like the WB poly and will avoid it at all costs. I never thought it gave the rich look of oil.


That's why I say let the STAIN do the coloring, if you have good hardwood like walnut, oak, cherry you get far betetr stain results than pine or spruce or the cheap paint grade softwoods used on door and window trim etc in many old houses.
If this amber color thing you want in the oil is that important to you then use the oil and mess with it for 3 days for 3 coats and a month to cure while smelling it, or tint the water based poly a light amber color.
Many people have allergies or asthma , and those persons simply can't be in a home with the toxic fumes given off from the varnish solvents, I don't mind it but every time I go in my gallery building, soon as I walk in the door I can STILL smell the odor of fresh oil based paint that I used on the ceiling MONTHS ago!

I don't have time or inclination to waste 3+ days with varnish and dealing with all the little dust flecks and dog hair that inevitably would settle all over it while it's tacky as mouse glue traps for 3 days.
Varnishing woodwork or floors is something you do on a vacant empty house BEFORE you move in, it's highly impractical in a house you are actively living in




> Not to mention the extra step of raising the grain then sanding the fuzz off.


I've never had grain raise with water based poly, and I've done my oak window trim, and furniture with it plus many other projects over the years.
You still have to lightly sand between coats anyway.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

I applied the first coat of Minwax oil Polyurethane clear satin and waited 6 hours. Is it ready to recoat? Manufacturer says 4-6 hours. How it should feel when you touch it? Should it be smooth and slippery. For me it feels like not a smooth surface and and some spots feel sticky
I feel like i should wait till tomorrow before i reapply?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

The Minwax is slow to dry, even though some of the cans say 'fast drying' if it feels tacky at all, or if it gums up the sandpaper,wait longer.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

So i finally got some time to get back to my crazy project and i patched all the holes next to the wood door frame boards and any holes on the walls. I painted the ceiling and the wood boards and today i decided to use the left over paint for the ceiling to paint the closet before finally paining the room. Yes, it all takes forever, but work has been keeping me busy and there was no time for the little room. Before paining it i tried to scrape as much old paint as i could and i patched the holes with http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-purpose-joint-compound/p-1288607-c-13060.htm
Today i cleaned the closet walls with little water, waited 15 minutes and started to paint. Cutting in was easy and all was good, but once i started to paint the rest with the roller, after few minutes pain started to stick out and started to come off. Even old caulk in the corners started to come off. i immediately started to scrap off the paint with the Joint Knife. I have no idea what kind of paint was there before? Was it too moist? The ceiling paint was Benjamin Moore Flat paint, which is pretty good quality. I must say that my house is one piece of crap and the best would be to remove and replace everything. People who did all the work before went easy route and now i have to suffer and deal with unexpected. Even the closets cause problems. Next steps are to scrap off as much old paint as i can in that closet, then sand it and paint with GARDZ and then repaint again with old ceiling paint. If i am luck i will finish this project in next 5 years!!! Dealing with old buildings is pain and sometimes replacing everything is the only way to go!!!
So now i wonder what happens when i start to paint the patched walls.
Attached the pics of my patching work.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

15 minutes is not long enough to dry
gardz will help


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

After cleaning walls, be sure to remove agents by thoroughly rinsing with clear water; some residues may cause a reaction.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

chrisn said:


> 15 minutes is not long enough to dry
> gardz will help


I only sprayed it with very little water. Sprayer set to fine. And then I wiped it with the towel. Yesterday I cleaned everything again and removed the paint that did not want to stick and scratched the walls a little bit more. I noticed there is a plaster there, no drywall, so maybe that's why it did not work? Also, while I was removing old paint I was sweating a lot, so this just tells me that the humidity is very high in that closet and that might be why the paint did not want to stick. Today i will paint it with Gardz, then patch with the compound, then sand it and paint with Gardz again and then I will finally paint. This should make those closet walls be more durable for next few years. I did that before in my bathroom and worked great for old damaged walls. 






























Attached current closet walls before the redoing it again.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

So finally all is done. Amateur job with the help of great people here on this forum. Thank you all again for giving me all the tips. I have learned so much. Thanks again!!!
Attached painted room.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

The only part i don't like is what happened to the wood frame at patch spots when it connects with the drywall. It kind of lighten up and lost color although i put 2 layers of varnish. (might happen while i was cleaning the the left over joint compound) I will try to simply paint it over with the stain marker. I hope it will just go darker, unless you know a better technique to cover it up? I personally think that chemicals are much worse when it comes to stripping wood compared to the heat gun although heat gun is not safe and not healthy friendly.
Attached damaged varnish and painted closet after gardz fixes.


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

Congratulations; it's worth all the work!


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

Good job dude :thumbsup: 


You could fix the edge with some polly shades. 
One of the darker colors, walnut maybe.


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Good job dude :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> You could fix the edge with some polly shades.
> One of the darker colors, walnut maybe.


thx for the tip, that is great that this is fixable as i hate that look and i want to make sure all looks clean and nice. I will progably go with Bombay Mahogany color:
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/one-step-stain-and-finishes/minwax-polyshades#Colors


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

If you are going to tape that green edge to do it, use the 3m orange core "safe release" I think it is called, used for delicate surfaces


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## bwspot (Mar 20, 2012)

I painted my doors with the Minwax oil Polyurethane clear satin twice and i am seeing weird effect. It looks like some parts are whiter then others, like the paint would not be there. See attached? What is that? Do i need to put more poly when painting?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

blwegrzyn said:


> I painted my doors with the Minwax oil Polyurethane clear satin twice and i am seeing weird effect. It looks like some parts are whiter then others, like the paint would not be there. See attached? What is that? Do i need to put more poly when painting?



From the pics it looks like the white areas correspond to where light hits the door. I can clearly see sunlight shining on the bottom right of the door, but is there light hitting the top of the door from the left too? I have a feeling light glare in the pic is making it hard to see exactly what's going on. 

The only thing I know that can cause 'ghosting' like that in an oil base clear is if moisture gets trapped in it. I've seen it happen when the product is applied in humid conditions... That seems like a long shot though, unless you have some unusual conditions in the house. 

Is it possible that the dark stain is UV damaged (bleached out) in those areas? And the minwax is accentuating that?


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## mt999999 (Jan 26, 2013)

Just found this thread. The re-finished wood looks great! I tried the same in our house, but there was only pine underneath, and it was never finished. The original paint was forest green, and it was impossible to strip. The house was built in 1927. I am going to take a beating for saying this, but the heat gun method is fine. I've done it several times before, just do it in a well-ventilated area. I then strip with a chemical stripper, wash, and stain. At work, my boss makes me strip paint from porches with a plumbing BLOW TORCH, to get it done faster. You constantly have to wet the porch so it doesn't catch on fire. I just ended up repainting my trim. Point is, NEVER remove old trim in favor of new just because it makes the project easier. Historical trim is what makes up a house! I'm glad to see you refinished your trim. Check out the link below, part way down the page. This guy re-did this house, stripping paint from woodwork, and it looks really nice.

http://www.oldhouseguy.com/my_restoration.html


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