# Deck Power Washed...now many days of rain before stain!



## Gymschu

Mark, no need to re-wash the deck as long as you plan on doing it within 2-3 weeks. Believe it or not some stains can be applied onto a damp (not soaking wet) deck. I like Deckscapes from SW but I know Sikkens is great stuff too. In a perfect world, it would be nice for the deck to get at least 2 to 3 days dry time before you apply the stain.........sometimes that just doesn't happen.


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## mark2741

Thanks Gymschu. If the forecast holds then I should have 3 solid days of dry weather leading up to this Sunday when I hope to be able to apply the first coat. My deck does not get a lot of sun (which is probably why it's in good a shape as it is given how old it is and the lack of maintenance on it for so long), so I really want to give it three days' dry time.


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## Tom Struble

one way to tell if the wood is ready for stain is to drip some water on it,if it readily absorbs you can stain,if it beads up and sits on the surface you need to wait

don't go by how many days,go by the condition of the wood


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## NCpaint1

mark2741 said:


> Thanks Gymschu. If the forecast holds then I should have 3 solid days of dry weather leading up to this Sunday when I hope to be able to apply the first coat. My deck does not get a lot of sun (which is probably why it's in good a shape as it is given how old it is and the lack of maintenance on it for so long), so I really want to give it three days' dry time.


The best way to check the moisture level of wood is with a moisture meter. You can get a decent one for less than $50, they're actually pretty handy. Sikkens recommends moisture content less than 21%.


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## housepaintingny

I agree with NC. You should use a moisture meter. We own several moisture meters and it is our policy to always use them on all exterior projects, including deck staining. Sikkens makes some good deck stains. Nothing for nothing, but 2000 psi from a pressure washer is actually to much, with the right cleaner you wouldn't have to use anymore than 800-1000 ps i on a deck. I prefer to use per carbonated deck cleaner, as the cleaner does the work for me and it does not contain bleach which has lo
ng term effects.


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## mark2741

Thanks guys.

I originally tried the Flood deck cleaning solution that HD sells. It didn't seem to work all that well, so when I ran out (it only covered about 1/3rd of the deck) I switched to the Behr 2-in-1 stuff. It seemed to work about the same.

I'm wondering if it would make sense to rent a sander of some sort from HD and give the deck a quick light sanding? I don't have many 'fuzzies' on the deck, just a few spots where I was a bit heavy-handed with the pressure washer. I wasn't planning on sanding but after lugging the heavy pressure washer into and out of my van, and doing the pressure washing (in-between applying cleaner and scrubbing with a nylon brush), if the sanding will help then I don't mind doing it. 

Is sanding a good idea? If so, then what type of sander should I rent? I can't imagine an orbital is a good idea because it would go against the grain of the boards.


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## Faron79

If you haven't sanded a deck (floor) in 10 years....

DO IT.

By the time a decade rolls around, it doesn't matter HOW clean the deck is. It's NOT gonna hold stain well, because the wood grain/cellulose/lignin is SHOT. The grain is crushed and oxidized.

I've sanded my 15 y/o Construction-heart Redwood decks' floor 3 times in 15 yrs. Still looks damn-near new. It's in full sun...no shade.

Rent a 12"x18" "Vibrating-plate" sander, a couple backer-pads, some 60-grit paper, and sand the floor until grain looks even everywhere. Get all dust vacuumed/swept/wiped-out with paint-thinner.
* Also- because it's now sanded, you don't have to wait DAYS for it to dry!
* Once dust is wiped-out...you're staining!

>>> NOW you've basically got a new deck (floor anyway!), that will absorb & hold stain evenly. Read this sentence 3 times....:thumbsup:

I stress this to my customers frequently up here. I usually get thanked for it...
My first 2 questions to people:
1) How old is the deck?
2) Has it ever been sanded?

Faron


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## NCpaint1

Faron79 said:


> If you haven't sanded a deck (floor) in 10 years....
> 
> DO IT.
> 
> By the time a decade rolls around, it doesn't matter HOW clean the deck is. It's NOT gonna hold stain well, because the wood grain/cellulose/lignin is SHOT. The grain is crushed and oxidized.
> 
> I've sanded my 15 y/o Construction-heart Redwood decks' floor 3 times in 15 yrs. Still looks damn-near new. It's in full sun...no shade.
> 
> Rent a 12"x18" "Vibrating-plate" sander, a couple backer-pads, some 60-grit paper, and sand the floor until grain looks even everywhere. Get all dust vacuumed/swept/wiped-out with paint-thinner.
> * Also- because it's now sanded, you don't have to wait DAYS for it to dry!
> * Once dust is wiped-out...you're staining!
> 
> >>> NOW you've basically got a new deck (floor anyway!), that will absorb & hold stain evenly. Read this sentence 3 times....:thumbsup:
> 
> I stress this to my customers frequently up here. I usually get thanked for it...
> My first 2 questions to people:
> 1) How old is the deck?
> 2) Has it ever been sanded?
> 
> Faron



Sanding is a good thing :thumbsup: Although, depending on the size, and if the boards are cupping, or uneven, you may be better off with an orbit sander ( the hand type ) I did mine last summer that way. Started with a quick once over using 50-60 grit, to knock down some grooves and remove any stain that was missed after I stripped. Then finished with 80 grit, to remove any sanding marks and even everything out. If you do it using the palm sander type, its slower for sure, but keeps you out of trouble. The big sanders can get you in trouble really quick. 80 grit is the highest I would use. Anything finer and the wood has a hard time taking stain properly.


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## hyunelan2

I'm glad I have been following this thread. 2 years ago, right after I bought the house, I re-stained/sealed my deck. The floors didn't last the winter. Last summer, I pressure washed all the floors and resealed again. Now they look even worse. All the slats and other vertical parts are holding just fine, but the surfaces parallel to the ground (floors, top of rails) are all crapped out. I think sanding might be a good idea to fix? The deck is about 8 years old.


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## NCpaint1

hyunelan2 said:


> I'm glad I have been following this thread. 2 years ago, right after I bought the house, I re-stained/sealed my deck. The floors didn't last the winter. Last summer, I pressure washed all the floors and resealed again. Now they look even worse. All the slats and other vertical parts are holding just fine, but the surfaces parallel to the ground (floors, top of rails) are all crapped out. I think sanding might be a good idea to fix? The deck is about 8 years old.


Looks like half has been washed/stripped. I would strip the rest first, then a quick sand starting with 50-60 and finishing with 80. 


What stain did you use....and dont use it again :no:


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## hyunelan2

NCpaint1 said:


> Looks like half has been washed/stripped.


I know, the funny thing is that is just how it weathered. I peeled/faded just like I started to strip it.



> I would strip the rest first, then a quick sand starting with 50-60 and finishing with 80.


Using a chemical stripper, or just mechanical [pressure wash]?



> What stain did you use....and dont use it again :no:


Thompsons, with redwood tint . I know, not a highly recommended product. I used that because it was what I found here in the basement, so I bought more to match - my fence and shed are the same color (and now also need to be refinished).


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## NCpaint1

hyunelan2 said:


> I know, the funny thing is that is just how it weathered. I peeled/faded just like I started to strip it.
> 
> 
> Using a chemical stripper, or just mechanical [pressure wash]?
> 
> 
> 
> Thompsons, with redwood tint . I know, not a highly recommended product. I used that because it was what I found here in the basement, so I bought more to match - my fence and shed are the same color (and now also need to be refinished).



Use a chemical. Gemini Safe Strip is an excellent product to remove that Thompsons. It wont kill plants or grass, and wont burn your skin...plus it actually works which is a bonus :laughing:

Sikkens makes a great transparent stain, Gemini TWP is good too. Both of those products are oil base. Benjamin Moore Arborcoat is also very good. Its a hybrid formula, and recommends a clear UV maintenance application every year to keep it looking good.


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## mark2741

So now it's been a full day of no rain and the deck has finally dried and....the results are not what I hoped after the washing : (

See the pic. There are lots of discolorations in the wood now. Overall it looks 1000 times better than it did, but I'm hoping there's something I can do to make it more even. See the 'white' spots and the leftover grayish spots? I'm thinking perhaps I could use some wood wash and my electric (2000 psi) washer to go over it again to try to even it out better? Here is a pic of most of the deck (it's showing up darker than it looks in person):










And here is a close-up showing the unevenness of the boards:









Maybe I need to do another coat of deck wash, scrub harder, and then spray it off after 20 minutes?


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## mark2741

It just hit me that I've been so focused on applying a semi-transparent stain that I completely dismissed the idea of an opaque stain, but perhaps given the condition of this deck that is the best way to go?


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## Gymschu

Mark, I think you did an outstanding job considering the age and condition of the deck. It is amazing what the stain will do to bring it to life again. I don't think there's a whole lot more you can do. Personally, I think you can overdo the prepwork........I mean the more you put cleaners on the deck and the more sanding you do can actually do more harm than good. Maybe test an area first before going forward with the whole thing........that would give you a better idea of what you're up against.


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## mark2741

Thanks Gymschu!

I think you're right. I'll see if the local paint dealer can give me a sample can (I know HD has the small sample cans of Behr stuff but I'm avoiding that) of semi-transparent Sikkens stain and I'll try it on a section where there is a lot of unevenness in terms of the wood as it is now, and see how it turns out. I'll post back with the results.


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## Faron79

Nice and clean Mark...very good pics...

BUT...

I can tell it ain't gonna look very even. It's CLEAN - yes.
Will stain hold evenly - NO. You won't like it for long, I promise.

The "surface-crush" of the grain is very apparent to me. If my deck looked like that, there's NO WAY I'd stain it. Don't take this as ANY criticism!! It's not meant that way!

I GUARANTEE if, as a test, you just fully sanded half the deck, and then stained the whole thing...you'd be sanding the other half the next day.

>>> It's time for a full sand my man...it's time.

Faron
PS...Cue Metallica...."Enter Sandman"!!!:thumbup:


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## jsheridan

hyunelan2 said:


> I'm glad I have been following this thread. 2 years ago, right after I bought the house, I re-stained/sealed my deck. The floors didn't last the winter. Last summer, I pressure washed all the floors and resealed again. Now they look even worse. All the slats and other vertical parts are holding just fine, but the surfaces parallel to the ground (floors, top of rails) are all crapped out. I think sanding might be a good idea to fix? The deck is about 8 years old.


That deck needs a thorough sanding. The floor failed so quickly because you put stain on a layer of dead wood. Wood has a component called lignin, which is akin to the mortar in a brick wall. Lignin holds all the celluose together. UV destroys lignin and the wood literally washes away. Power washing doesn't remove it enough to allow it to hold stain, and it must be sanded. Verticals don't take the UV pounding that the horizontals do. I did a large deck two summers ago with a floor sander.


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## Matthewt1970

I third the sanding. "See the 'white' spots and the leftover grayish spots?" Those will be more pernounced when you go to stain so you really really really need to get those up.


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## mark2741

Thanks guys. So what type of sander should I rent - an orbital or a 'vibrating disk' sander? I have one of those 'mouse' palm sanders but I think using that would take weeks and want to avoid that : (

Biggest concern is the nails - there are lots and many are not perfectly flush or recessed into the wood so I'll have to use a nail punch and hammer to recess them all, which will be fun!


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## NCpaint1

mark2741 said:


> Thanks guys. So what type of sander should I rent - an orbital or a 'vibrating disk' sander? I have one of those 'mouse' palm sanders but I think using that would take weeks and want to avoid that : (
> 
> Biggest concern is the nails - there are lots and many are not perfectly flush or recessed into the wood so I'll have to use a nail punch and hammer to recess them all, which will be fun!


My cedar porch I sanded with an orbital sander. 12'x12', with stairs and handrails. Did it in half a day. This isnt furniture quality we're talking here :laughing: Real quick sand with coarse grit, it knocks it down fast. The 80 grit finish sand gets rid of any grooves or lines. It goes pretty quick. Try a bit by hand and see how it goes.


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## Faron79

I described in my earlier post (#8 here)...

>>> Find a 12"x18" Vibrating Flat-Plate sander. Call your rental-places, or Hardware-stores that rent stuff.

* Get some backer-pads, and 60-grit sheets.
* You may want to just get 60-grit only. 80-grit can almost "polish" things too much.
* YES...definitely...knock-down those nail-heads first!!
* Please also: sweep often during sanding, vacuum well with the brush attachment, and wipe down with paint-thinner.
* Yes, I know, you didn't wanna hear that last step, but you'll be surprised how much more dust comes off!!! 
* Use your palm-sander for edges, steps, etc.
* Most sanders of this type are pretty heavy. 
* Make even, steady passes with the direction of the decking. Pay attention to the cord too!
* Prob'ly need a dust-mask too!

Faron


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## housepaintingny

One thing that no one has mentioned is that a deck brightner should have been used after you cleaned the deck to lower the ph balance and neutalize. It would also even out the color in the wood. As for sanding 60 grit should be good. You can use an orbit sander or if you choose to rent a larger commercial sander you will want a vibrating sander and not a drum sander, as a drum sander will take more surface off faster. Make sure you sink all nails below the surface before sanding. You don't want to sand to much as you will reach a point where you can actually close the wood poures. After sanding I would sweep, vacumne the deck. Wash it again and then use a deck brightner.


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## Faron79

DO NOT USE A BRIGHTENER/further cleaning AFTER SANDING!!!

When you've sanded the wood thoroughly/evenly, and removed all dust...YOU'RE DONE.

You're ready to stain.

* Sanding doesn't "close wood pores". It shears-off useless, degraded/crushed wood material that won't absorb OR hold stain.
* What remains is, in a sense, is "New" wood.
* The newly exposed wood cellulose/lignin fibers, whose structure is now opened-up, WILL ABSORB & HOLD STAIN EVENLY.
* Why? Again...because all the crushed fibers are now GONE.

Sheesh! 
WHY subject a sanded deck to another "wet process"?!?!!?
You'd have to wait another few days for it to dry.
It's already clean. 
If fully sanded, the top layers are gone anyway...there's nothing to neutralize!!

Faron


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## housepaintingny

If you sand to much you will close the poures. A brighnter should always be used after cleaning a deck for several reasons.


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## Faron79

Respectfully differing with Housepaintingny-

EVERY stain company I visit with (especially people @ Sikkens) all agree that a periodic full sanding of a deck floor is the best prep.
A few U.S. Forestry and University studies on UN-stained wood left in the sun lose HALF of their Lignin & Cellulose...

>>> ...IN TWO WEEKS.

Translated: 
* HALF of a boards stain-holding ability is GONE in 2 weeks, due to Sun-exposure ALONE. 
* This isn't even factoring wear, dirt, freeze-thaw cycles, moisture-environment conditions, etc.

The only remedy: SANDING-off degraded wood fibers.

If you've sanded a deck, why in the He## would you need to "Brighten" it?!?!? You're back down to virgin wood!

Faron


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## NCpaint1

Faron79 said:


> Respectfully differing with Housepaintingny-
> 
> EVERY stain company I visit with (especially people @ Sikkens) all agree that a periodic full sanding of a deck floor is the best prep.
> A few U.S. Forestry and University studies on UN-stained wood left in the sun lose HALF of their Lignin & Cellulose...
> 
> >>> ...IN TWO WEEKS.
> 
> Translated:
> * HALF of a boards stain-holding ability is GONE in 2 weeks, due to Sun-exposure ALONE.
> * This isn't even factoring wear, dirt, freeze-thaw cycles, moisture-environment conditions, etc.
> 
> The only remedy: SANDING-off degraded wood fibers.
> 
> If you've sanded a deck, why in the He## would you need to "Brighten" it?!?!? You're back down to virgin wood!
> 
> Faron



Yes :yes:


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## digdig06

I cleaned my cedar deck thoroughly about 2-1/2 months ago, in preparation for a full sand. I am just now getting around to sanding it this weekend. My question is---do I need to re-clean deck *again*, before sanding? 

I dont mind cleaning again, just didnt know if a full sand was going to do the same thing as cleaning.

Thanks


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## mark2741

A follow-up - 

The weather has still been too chilly here in the Philadelphia area (highs in low 40's). I hear it will warm up later this week, so I plan on doing the following:

1. Re-power wash the deck using a deck cleaner and my 2000 psi electric pressure washer (I did as good a job as I could have before, using the rented 3000psi gas pressure washer, so I'm not expecting any change in condition after this). Only reason I'm doing this is because it will have been over 2 weeks since I originally pressure-washed it.

2. I'm going to stop by the Sikkens dealer and see what dark shade of semi-transparent stain he'll have and see if I can get a sample can of it. I'm going to try it on an area that is the most discolored and see how it turns out.

After discussing with some local experienced DIYers who took a look at the deck, they advised against sanding it because after closer inspection, just about 90% of the nails in the deck (there are at least 1000 nails) are slightly above flush and the sandpaper would just be torn constantly. I don't want to spend 3 days banging in nail heads so this is the best alternative I think. Those same guys told me to just bite the bullet and use an opaque stain, but these guys don't have the best eye for aesthetics based on their firebrick red-stained decks so I'm gonna give a darker semi-transp a shot first : )

If it doesn't work well to cover up the imperfections then I'll go with the opaque.

Once I make some more progress later this week I'll post some more pics.


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## Faron79

Hey Mark!

I'm sorry your "experienced DIY-ers" feel that way:huh:. 
It's simply NOT correct.
I don't care if there's 10,000 nails...it needs to be sanded.
It also doesn't matter if you're using S/T or Opaque....
The same sanding reasoning applies.

I don't mean this dis-respectfully AT ALL...but this is like telling a smoker to quit. There's a million reasons TO quit, but somehow it rarely gets done...even though it's the right decision.

(I'm just trying to be funny making a serious point, so please take it in that light!)

I'll stop beating a dead horse now...

Faron


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## hyunelan2

mark2741 said:


> I don't want to spend 3 days banging in nail heads so this is the best alternative


I'd rather spend 3 days banging in nail heads than be restaining the deck every summer.



> Those same guys told me to just bite the bullet and use an opaque stain,


Don't know for sure, but I thought I read that the opaque stains will not last nearly as long as a transparent or semi-transparent.


I'm in the same boat, but just ordered a Porter Cable 7346 to go the sanding route. I've got 3 days off work in a couple weeks and plan on going after it then.


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## digdig06

Hi Faron- I just read your post about no need to brighten/wash after sanding. I cleaned my cedar deck thoroughly about 2-1/2 months ago, in preparation for a full sand. I am just now getting around to sanding it this weekend. My question is---do I need to re-clean deck *again*, before sanding? just wanted to know, because I'm renting a vibrating plate sander this weekend and once finished sanding, removing dust etc. if I could immediately follow with staining. 

I dont mind cleaning again, just didnt know if a full sand was going to do the same thing as cleaning.

Thanks 







Faron79 said:


> Respectfully differing with Housepaintingny-
> 
> EVERY stain company I visit with (especially people @ Sikkens) all agree that a periodic full sanding of a deck floor is the best prep.
> A few U.S. Forestry and University studies on UN-stained wood left in the sun lose HALF of their Lignin & Cellulose...
> 
> >>> ...IN TWO WEEKS.
> 
> Translated:
> * HALF of a boards stain-holding ability is GONE in 2 weeks, due to Sun-exposure ALONE.
> * This isn't even factoring wear, dirt, freeze-thaw cycles, moisture-environment conditions, etc.
> 
> The only remedy: SANDING-off degraded wood fibers.
> 
> If you've sanded a deck, why in the He## would you need to "Brighten" it?!?!? You're back down to virgin wood!
> 
> Faron


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## NCpaint1

digdig06 said:


> Hi Faron- I just read your post about no need to brighten/wash after sanding. I cleaned my cedar deck thoroughly about 2-1/2 months ago, in preparation for a full sand. I am just now getting around to sanding it this weekend. My question is---do I need to re-clean deck *again*, before sanding? just wanted to know, because I'm renting a vibrating plate sander this weekend and once finished sanding, removing dust etc. if I could immediately follow with staining.
> 
> I dont mind cleaning again, just didnt know if a full sand was going to do the same thing as cleaning.
> 
> Thanks


Yeah dude you're good to go. As long as theres no grease from the BBQ or something, sand away! :thumbsup: No need to wash again, or after the sanding either. Broom off the dust, or piss off your neighbors using a leaf blower :laughing:


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## digdig06

Thanks NC! Big help


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## digdig06

*Pics "After the sand"*

Hey NC-

Got her sanded! 95% of the deck looks great, but there is a few grey spots here and there that didnt come up with the plate sander. Do I need to sand those few spots, in order to make it all the "universal cedar color? There is also a few boards (in the spaces seperating boards) where there is a little old stain left behind. Would it be easier to unscrew boards and finish them out, (staining, sand, dry) in garage? 

I have a few pics that might "Paint" a better picture, just not sure how to post them. I will give it a try....

Thanks!




NCpaint1 said:


> Yeah dude you're good to go. As long as theres no grease from the BBQ or something, sand away! :thumbsup: No need to wash again, or after the sanding either. Broom off the dust, or piss off your neighbors using a leaf blower :laughing:


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## housepaintingny

From the grey in the pics. The deck was not cleaned with the proper cleaner before sanding. Using a pressure washer on low pressure with the proper cleaner would have restored your deck to new, removing grey dead wood fibers, dirt, mold, mildew and leaving the pours open to accept stain. A deck needs to be cleaned well prior to sanding, otherwise you are just pressing the mold, mildew, dirt, and dead fibers into the wood.


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## digdig06

Actually I cleaned it thoroughly prior to sanding.


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## housepaintingny

digdig06 said:


> Actually I cleaned it thoroughly prior to sanding.


Your one post says that you cleaned the deck about 2.5 months ago. Nothing for nothing, but it should have been cleaned again. Everyone is posting about sanding decks here, but the deck should still be cleaned recently right before sanding and in the pics you posted after sanding I see dead gray wood fibers, if a deck is cleaned with the proper products all of the dead grey wood fibers will be gone and the deck will look new again. I've taken decks that have not been stained for a couple of year, grey and black looking and after cleaning them they look new again. Then if you need to sand you sand. Most guys sand after pressure washing, because they don't pressure wash the deck correctly and use to much pressure causing fuzziness and zebra stripping in the deck.


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## digdig06

Thanks. I did clean her 2 months ago, its just there has been practically no activity on deck in that time. The previous owners had it covered as well, we just removed it because it was rather tacky and and wanted to install our own.

In your experience, what can be done to get her looking good again?


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## housepaintingny

digdig06 said:


> Thanks. I did clean her 2 months ago, its just there has been practically no activity on deck in that time. The previous owners had it covered as well, we just removed it because it was rather tacky and and wanted to install our own.
> 
> In your experience, what can be done to get her looking good again?


Contrary to what other have previously posted. It is a good idea to apply a deck brightner after sanding. A brightner will remove any discoloration, stains and nail or screw rust, restoring the wood to original, uniform color. Personally I would clean that deck again and brighten. You need to remove that grey or it will show through your stain and the stain will also not absorb well in those areas. I like using a product from the wolman stain company called deck brite. It cleans and brightens in one step. It contains per carbonate. It does not contain bleach or chlorine. A lot of cleaners and brightners contain bleach which actually only bleaches the surfaces and over time destroys the glue in the wood. Deck Brite can be found on line. I've. Used a lot of cleaners, but have settled on deck brite. Just follow the instructions and let the cleaner do the work.


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## digdig06

housepaintingny: Thanks for your help! went ahead and cleaned/brightened it yesterday. I used "Floods deck cleaner/ brightener" this time, as I have had good results in the past. looks tons better this morning (Full sun today) and tons brighter. I am still noticing on a couple of older boards, that i didnt flip over (angles) that there is still a little grey mixed in with the uniform cedar color. Is this just because these were a little more affected by weather conditions than the others, or is there more i could potentially do to get the "greying" out? Followed directions to a tee, just thing these boards might have been more affected by sun, rain, snow, etc. than the others. 

Thanks for the tip on "Deckbrite" I went ahead and ordered a gallon online last night....for future cleanings...:thumbsup:







housepaintingny said:


> Contrary to what other have previously posted. It is a good idea to apply a deck brightner after sanding. A brightner will remove any discoloration, stains and nail or screw rust, restoring the wood to original, uniform color. Personally I would clean that deck again and brighten. You need to remove that grey or it will show through your stain and the stain will also not absorb well in those areas. I like using a product from the wolman stain company called deck brite. It cleans and brightens in one step. It contains per carbonate. It does not contain bleach or chlorine. A lot of cleaners and brightners contain bleach which actually only bleaches the surfaces and over time destroys the glue in the wood. Deck Brite can be found on line. I've. Used a lot of cleaners, but have settled on deck brite. Just follow the instructions and let the cleaner do the work.


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## NCpaint1

You can sand the last couple boards with an orbital.


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## mark2741

Just an update from the OP -

The weather here has been non-conducive to finishing the job due to rain and cold since I first washed it using deck cleaner, then power washed it (I posted pics after that).

It's been about 3 weeks since then. I went to my local paint store and picked up some sample cans of Sikkens semi-transparent stain for free. Along with it the guy gave me the Sikkens brochure and told me I shouldn't have pressure-washed it, that I should have just used a mixture of 3 parts TSP and 1 part bleach mixed with water. He referred me to the Sikkens instructions in the brochure for the stains. It says to use a mixture of TSP, some bleach, and warm water to clean the deck (first apply the mixture with pump sprayer, then scrub with hard-bristle brush while the mixture does its thing for 15 to 20 minutes, then pressure wash off at low pressure).

I tried this today on the lower part of my deck and it definitely made a big difference and evened out the wood, taking away the rest of the gray and it just overall looks even, unlike before, and ready for stain, unlike the previous attempts.

This weekend I'll do the rest of the deck per Sikkens' instructions and and then mid-next week, after the recommended 48 hours dry time, I'll apply the Sikkens Cetol SRD stain. I'll post pics afterward. Be glad when this is finally done, and now I know why the Trex stuff is so popular : )


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## housepaintingny

mark2741 said:


> Just an update from the OP -
> 
> The weather here has been non-conducive to finishing the job due to rain and cold since I first washed it using deck cleaner, then power washed it (I posted pics after that).
> 
> It's been about 3 weeks since then. I went to my local paint store and picked up some sample cans of Sikkens semi-transparent stain for free. Along with it the guy gave me the Sikkens brochure and told me I shouldn't have pressure-washed it, that I should have just used a mixture of 3 parts TSP and 1 part bleach mixed with water. He referred me to the Sikkens instructions in the brochure for the stains. It says to use a mixture of TSP, some bleach, and warm water to clean the deck (first apply the mixture with pump sprayer, then scrub with hard-bristle brush while the mixture does its thing for 15 to 20 minutes, then pressure wash off at low pressure).
> 
> I tried this today on the lower part of my deck and it definitely made a big difference and evened out the wood, taking away the rest of the gray and it just overall looks even, unlike before, and ready for stain, unlike the previous attempts.
> 
> This weekend I'll do the rest of the deck per Sikkens' instructions and and then mid-next week, after the recommended 48 hours dry time, I'll apply the Sikkens Cetol SRD stain. I'll post pics afterward. Be glad when this is finally done, and now I know why the Trex stuff is so popular : )


That is what Sikkens recommends before staining any wood surface with any of there stain. It does work, but doesn't brighten the wood like a brightner wood. A pressure washer is ok to use, as long as you use low pressure.


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## NCpaint1

mark2741 said:


> Be glad when this is finally done, and now I know why the Trex stuff is so popular : )


Oh yeah? Read some posts on here about the composite decking. I sell stains/sealers to people all the time for their "maintenance free" expensive decks. :laughing: They're not all their cracked up to be. If I had a ton of money to throw at a new deck floor...I'd go with IPE. Its expensive, but its amazing. I dont know, even if I had the money, I believe IPE is rain forest wood. I'll just stick with Cedar for my new deck. Im young enough where the maintenance doesnt kill me too badly.


Oh, to the OP. This is the hardest part, fixing someone else's mistake. In a couple years, do a light cleaning and reapply the SRD. If you keep up on the maintenance while the deck is looking good, you shouldnt have to do all the work you did this time. Thats sort of the trick with decks. Once they start looking like they need to be done...they really need to be done. If you wait to long, put it off, or try to squeeze another season out of it...back to square one :furious:


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## mark2741

Update....still not much progress due to getting rain in my area every 2 to 3 days. Supposed to rain all day today.

But....I went to the local Sikkens dealer (a local paint shop that has always given good advice in the past for paint) and explained the situation to the guy and told him I wanted Sikkens Semi-Transparent stain. He said he had 3 color samples available he could give me. He went in the back and handed me three small cans in three different tints - Natural, Natural Oak, and Cedar. He handed me a pamphlet as well and told me how to prep the deck (which mirrors what was in the pamphlet, which mirrors what I did and described in my last post). 

Yesterday, after 2 days of dry-time after a thorough drenching of rain a few days ago, I chose a small section of deck board and tried the 'Cedar' sample. It was WAY dark and looked like garbage - much darker and browner than the reddish tint in the color chart in the pamphlet. I then tried the 'Natural Oak'. It was slightly better, slightly less darker than the Cedar, but still looked like garbage. This morning I tried the last of the samples - the 'Natural', which on the color chart should basically be almost clear. I put it on and it is a dark, reddish tint - what I would have expected the Cedar to look like. Perplexed, I just did a google search for 'Sikkens stain too dark' or something like that and found some discussions. That's when I realized that the guy at the paint shop gave me samples of the wrong stuff!!!!! He gave me what I think are Sikkens SRD, not Sikkens SRD Semi-Transparent. The small sample cans are white and just have printed on them:

Sikkens Color Sample
078 Natural

On the back it mentions something to the effect of "this sample can be used to demonstrate any translucent color' or something like that. That tells me, based on the description of SRD (vs SRD Semi-Transparent) that he gave me plain SRD.

So now I will either go back to that store and ask him why he gave me the wrong stuff and ask if he has the semi-transparent, or look for another Sikkens dealer in my area, or check out the Cabots stuff which Lowes sells and apparently is also a good product.

I just learned this and thought I'd post here to get some feedback. What do you guys think? Have any of you used the SRD (just plain 'CETOL SRD' - no semi-transparent)? It still shows the wood grain but it is WAY dark. Unless the guy also gave me tinted colors, which I'm guessing is highly probable.

I just found this color chart and sure enough it is definitely different from what I had been given for sure because the numbering is different. Really ticked about this.
http://www.nam.sikkens.com/product-colors.cfm?product_id=59&product_category=deck


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## Faron79

I'm a Sikkens dealer too...

SRD IS Semi-Transparent, AND the only S/T Sikkens for decks.
(well....there IS DEK-Finish, which is a film-former, but it's a different animal ENTIRELY!) 
There is a new Waterborne SRD out now, but there's no sample bottles of that yet.

The "Cetol" phrase is meaningless...it's just Sikkens "brand-word" for a "finish you can SEE thru"...

Regarding color:
Your final color will be a crapshoot! It's just the way it is with stain you can see through! Final color is 90% dependant on the native color of your Cedar...AND how absorbent it is.
You could put that one sample on 10 Cedar decks, and you'll have 10 different hues.

>>> Dry times: 
2 days isn't enough...UNLESS you're in Phoenix, and the temp is 95! Check with a moisture-tester. THAT'S the only way to be sure.

Faron


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## user1007

Gymschu said:


> Mark, no need to re-wash the deck as long as you plan on doing it within 2-3 weeks. Believe it or not some stains can be applied onto a damp (not soaking wet) deck. I like Deckscapes from SW but I know Sikkens is great stuff too. In a perfect world, it would be nice for the deck to get at least 2 to 3 days dry time before you apply the stain.........sometimes that just doesn't happen.


SW bought MAB a few years ago and MAB made the best outdoor stains on the planet. I would not buy anything else. I am sort of out of the business but I bet with brand names changes we are talking the same thing here. 

Are you going oil or acrylic stains here though. You cannot put an oil based stain on wet deck. Let it dry. Roll it on and pray for no rain for 4-8 hours even at 40-45 degrees. You will be fine. 

Like painting anything? Remember the rule. Two coats!


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## Faron79

DO NOT apply 2 coats of ANY SRD S/T though...you'll regret it.
I promise.

ONE coat only of ANY SRD...the Pre-tints, the 190 Oil tint-base, & the new SRD-Waterborne-tintable.

DO NOT roll it on.
>>> Rolling on stain is worthless, and can lead to spotting if it dries b4 you can brush it in...in which case you've just needlessly doubled your work.
>>> Yes, wait for deck to fully dry. Get a moisture-tester.

Get a Wooster "Stainer" brush, unscrew the handle, and screw in your shop-broom pole.
Now you can STAND and do the deck floor!

I can't even count how many of these brushes we sell every summer!!

Faron


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## mark2741

Why would they sell different types if they are the same? Here is the semi-transparent:
http://www.nam.sikkens.com/product.cfm?product_id=59&product_category=deck

And here is the regular SRD:
http://www.nam.sikkens.com/product.cfm?product_id=18&product_category=log-home

The semi-transparent is made of "High Solids Alkyd/Oil", while the SRD is made of "Alkyd Oil".

The color choices available for each are also drastically different.


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## mark2741

Also - I don't have a cedar deck. It's just older pressure-treated wood.


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## Faron79

Oh, I see what ya mean Mark!

Both are SRD Oils. The one with the "Lotsa colors" is the SRD #190 tint-base that came out a couple years ago. 
Both SRD "series" can be used for Decks or Siding.

NOTE-
The ONE COAT line in their descriptions!!! DO NOT apply 2 coats of this stuff. You'll regret it, as I said.

Color:
Yes, on P/T wood, all bets are off for your final result!! BIG difference there!

Faron


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## mark2741

Thanks Faron. One question - by 'all bets are off' in regards to PT wood - what do you mean by that? 

I'm gonna go tomorrow back to the local sikkens dealer and ask them whether they carry the semi-transparent and if they have any samples they can provide of that. If not, or if they try to give me the same stuff they gave me before (the plain SRD), then I'll either drive the extra to the other sikkens dealer or go with Cabots at Lowes. I am not happy at all with the look of the three samples they provided me of the translucent SRD.


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## Faron79

Oh...the "all bets are off" statement only pertained to the color you'll end up with on P/T wood!

If you applied your SRD #078 to 3 P/T-decks, you'll have 3 different versions of the color! Some may be markedly different. Is it the stains fault? Obviously not...
Your final look is entirely dependent on the woods' native color.

Faron


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## mark2741

Just got back from a lunch-break visit to another Sikkens dealer that is about 20 minutes from my work.

So it appears that the regular Cetol SRD is the same as the semi-transparent SRD, with the practical difference being that the semi-transparent version comes in all kinds of colors (i.e., green, blue, etc.). I'm not really looking for an unnatural look so I asked them if they had any samples. They had only a few left of the regular SRD (they said they don't carry and don't think that Sikkens supplies sample cans for the semi-trans SRD stuff).

Although they didn't have any of the finishes I really wanted, I bought (for $4.99) a sample of the Natural Oak and will give it a try once the rain finishes and the deck dries. 

I explained to the guy what happened with the samples I got from the other Sikkens dealer - that even the 'Natural' stain sample was way dark, and he said it's probably because the samples the guy gave me were very old. He told me to shake them up really, really good, and that the stain should look very similar to the chip in the brochure so long as I'm not applying it on a gray deck. So we'll see.

I am also going to head to Lowes tonight for an un-related project and will check out what they have in the Cabots line, as I've read nothing but good things about that stuff. I wanted to go with Sikkens and still may, but damn if they ain't making it hard : ) Between this constant rain and the first local Sikkens dealer giving me the bad sample cans, I'm about to give up and just look for a different brand stain.


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## mark2741

*Question*

Okay....the frequent rains have continued to put a stop to my ability to stain this deck - it's been weeks! ugh...

But I still have the issue of choosing a stain color and have a question regarding semi-transparent deck stain application - 

Are you supposed to wipe off the excess? What exactly is 'excess' in this context? I have stained hardwood before (not a deck, but furniture piece). When doing that, I apply the stain with a rag, wait a few minutes, then run a clean rag over it the remove the darker spots.

In the earlier sample tests that I posted about, I simply applied a coat of the stain and left it on the deck board. Should I have, after a set period of time, 'wiped' off the excess? If so, I feel like a moron cus I didn't : ( I just read the Sikkens directions literally, which just say to apply it with a brush and that's it.

Reason I ask is because I'm having trouble finding a deck stain that is the right shade. Last I tried a fresh, well-shaken sample can of Sikkens SRD Natural Oak and it is *way* too dark. Much darker than the color sample on the brochure. I mentioned the problem to my brother and he said it should probably be wiped off before it dries, but he never stained a deck before so he wasn't sure. I re-read the directions and see no mention of wiping the excess, but perhaps Sikkens is not catering to buffoons like me? : (

If I should be wiping the 'excess' - is it simply a trial and error process in terms of how long to wait before wiping, and how 'hard' to wipe? Seems odd because the boards are not perfectly smooth so clearly there will be 'excess' in the ridges of the wood over the smoother parts.


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## housepaintingny

mark2741 said:


> Okay....the frequent rains have continued to put a stop to my ability to stain this deck - it's been weeks! ugh...
> 
> But I still have the issue of choosing a stain color and have a question regarding semi-transparent deck stain application -
> 
> Are you supposed to wipe off the excess? What exactly is 'excess' in this context? I have stained hardwood before (not a deck, but furniture piece). When doing that, I apply the stain with a rag, wait a few minutes, then run a clean rag over it the remove the darker spots.
> 
> In the earlier sample tests that I posted about, I simply applied a coat of the stain and left it on the deck board. Should I have, after a set period of time, 'wiped' off the excess? If so, I feel like a moron cus I didn't : ( I just read the Sikkens directions literally, which just say to apply it with a brush and that's it.
> 
> Reason I ask is because I'm having trouble finding a deck stain that is the right shade. Last I tried a fresh, well-shaken sample can of Sikkens SRD Natural Oak and it is *way* too dark. Much darker than the color sample on the brochure. I mentioned the problem to my brother and he said it should probably be wiped off before it dries, but he never stained a deck before so he wasn't sure. I re-read the directions and see no mention of wiping the excess, but perhaps Sikkens is not catering to buffoons like me? : (
> 
> If I should be wiping the 'excess' - is it simply a trial and error process in terms of how long to wait before wiping, and how 'hard' to wipe? Seems odd because the boards are not perfectly smooth so clearly there will be 'excess' in the ridges of the wood over the smoother parts.


When applying deck stain you do not wipe it off. Sikkens srd is an alkyd/oil base, so you need to use a quality china bristle brush. Apply it by brush, maintain a wet edge, apply from one end of the board or joint to the other end before moving onto the next board. If you are applying there semi-transparent they have 60 colors if you are using the translucent they have 10 colors.


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## mark2741

Thanks! That makes me feel slightly better that I'm not a complete buffoon : )

I still have the problem of why the stain is so much darker than in the color chips in the brochure.

The only sample I have not tried yet is the 'Natural Light' one, which none of my area stores has a sample of. I found one discussion of it online that says that there is a big difference in color/shade of the Natural Light compared to the next shade darker, which is 'Natural'. The Natural is way too dark, so I'm gonna go with the Natural Light but I'm not a wealthy man and it is annoying that I have to drop so much money on a 5-gallon bucket of this stuff without knowing how it is gonna look first : (

Has anyone tried the Sikkens Natural Light. The reason I'm hesitant about it is because my deck wood is old (pics in first couple of posts in this thread) and I'm concerned it might be too 'clear'/transparent. But I guess I just will have to trust that it is still in the SRD/semi-transparent category for a reason...

Incidentally, I did check with Lowes and Sherwin Williams about sample cans of the Cabots and DeckScapes stuff and, much to my surprise, they don't offer samples. At least Sikkens does (unfortunately my local dealers don't have any of the Natural Light samples left though).


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## mark2741

An update (yet again!) 

It's been a while since the last update due to the same reasons why this project has never gotten done - rain. It's rained in the Philadelphia area at least once every 3 days for the past 2 months : (

It rained heavily earlier this week, and we have conflicting weather reports now calling for mostly sunny/dry weather by some, and other stations calling for the same but with possible light showers tonight and tomorrow night. In hopes to finally apply stain either Sunday or early next week, I did a light deck wash using a pre-mixed gallon of Cabot deck cleaner (very light amount used as I didn't have enough to cover the entire deck), then followed with my low-pressure electric pressure washer. Then, I applied a strong dose of Benjamin Moore deck brightener and pressure washed off yesterday. Wasn't impressed immediately but now that the wood has dried and it made a definite difference. Made the wood much brighter and more even in tone. I'll try to post a pic tonight to show the difference.

Now I still have the same dilemma - choosing a deck stain. I had settled on Sikkens Cetol SRD based on reports on the internet and Consumer Reports, however the samples I tried previously are too dark in shade. I tried the Natural Oak on a scrap piece of new 2x6 and it was still too dark for my tastes. I'm concerned the next step lighter, Natural, will still be too dark. And the Natural Light I read is more of a clear-coat, which would not be ideal either. So I may see what Cabot has to offer at my local Lowes. Regardless, unless we get an unexpected dose of heavy rain over the next few days, then I should *finally* have a stained deck next week and will assuredly post pics. Thanks again for all help.

Has anyone used the SRD Natural Light? The printed color chip looks like a golden yellow color. I assume it has to have a fair amount of pigment due to it being a semi-transparent but I'm concerned it's going to be too clear.


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## mark2741

So yesterday was finally the day to stain! All in all I think it was a success (partial - I still have a smaller lower section to do, a long built-in bench, and part of the lower exterior deck).

Stopped at my local paint store yesterday morning after the kids' t-ball/softball games and picked up 4 gallons of the Sikkens SRD (re) in Natural. I tested a sample of the Natural last week on a new piece of 2x6 and it looked perfect. The paint store guy insisted that the Natural Light was not a clear-coat but in fact was only slightly lighter than the Natural, and with less protection, so he recommended I stick with Natural, so I did, even though I was concerned that the Natural would be too dark on my older deck.

Unfortunately, my local Sikkens dealer charges an arm and a leg - $44.95 per gallon. And they don't sell 5-gallon containers. Looking back I wish I had just ordered a 5-gallon container online for $185 shipped, versus the $190 I spent for 4 gallons.

I applied the stain to the railing and the deck. The deck is 23x14, with thin railing all around the one side and a built-in bench along half of it. I did the railings first, which took much longer than I expected (about 2.5 to 3 hours). Then, my wife pitched in and helped me do the deck boards. At first we did just brush but then I recommended that she roll it onto the board and I follow with a heavy backbrushing. This worked pretty well - definitely faster (which is important as you'll read what happened after we got done). I still had to dip the brush in the stain and apply with the brush too, because the roller didn't put a lot on. I was not prepared for using the roller so all we had was a 3/8th inch nap roller cover. Not ideal for this for sure, but it helped.

It took us about 2 hours to do the main deck. We still have the lower (smaller) deck to do, the built-in bench, and part of the exterior. All in all I expect another 5 hours of staining before all is said and done. I HOPE. Here is why:

Yesterday morning, before I started staining, I checked the weather report and it said "0% chance of precipitation" for every hour yesterday (source: fox 29 weather website). Of course, about an hour after we finished the main deck staining, it started raining. About 10 minutes later, it stopped. Then, about 30 minutes later it started pouring rain (with full sun - it was odd). It rained about 45 minutes and then stopped for good for the night. 

I was heartbroken last night - all the time spent on this never-ending project : ( Not to mention the hundreds of dollars in stain, brushes, deck wash solution, brightener, pressure washer rental, etc. I was bummed thinking it was/is ruined. But I *think*, I *hope*, that the rain didn't hurt it because the water just beaded up on the surface. At least that's what it looks like it has done. I went out first thing this morning and it's all just beaded up on the surface of the boards. I started to sweep it off, as my next concern is what happens when the sun dries it off - will it leave marks. But when I started sweeping it just more moved the water into pools than get rid of it (a squeegee would have been useful but I don't have one). So I gave up on that idea and will find out later today whether my first attempt at staining a deck was a massive, expensive failure or not : )

Some final thoughts for those reading this in the future (since Sikkens SRD is the top-recommended semi-transparent stain by Consumer Reports, and there are very few legit reviews/discussions of it online, I imagine this info could come in handy for someone eventually):


Applying the stain is not as 'dainty' a project as you might think. I found the stain to be pretty forgiving - I was dripping all over and was worried about not maintaining a wet edge at all times, but the spots went away and all was fine once gone over eventually.
The Natural 078 looks much darker on my weathered (but cleaned and brightened) old PT pine deck. MUCH darker than the sample on the new scrap PT pine I tried. It looks good, but I'm hoping it dries much lighter. It will probably take a few days to find out with the rain.
I live in PA and didn't realize until I got the stain home from the paint shop that in PA Sikkens only sells the reduced emissions stuff (SRD"re" on the can). Not sure how much that effects the shade, as the sample I got was not re.
Make sure you tape off any siding/spots you don't want this stuff on. Once it gets on it's impossible to get off - I got a few drops on my white vinyl siding and couldn't get it off. Have a rag soaked in mineral spirits ready. I didn't : (
Surprisingly, it washes off the skin pretty easily. Which was a good thing considering the reason I stopped staining after only 5 hours was to go to a 'Dad and Daughter' girl scout troop dance that evening : )

Once the wood dries up in a few days after the latest rain, I'll apply stain to the rest of the deck and then post pics.

If anyone has experienced this (particularly with Sikkens stain, but any) - where it rained soon after application - please let me know what I might be in for...I'm confident it will be okay now though.


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## mark2741

Hooray for Sikkens! The heavy rain that started less than an hour after finishing applying the SRD stain, and lasted for about 45 minutes, did not effect the stain at all! Really impressed with it and, although I am not thrilled with the darker shade (hoping within a couple of days as it dries further and more sun it will lighten up some, but it will never be as light as I'd hoped), all in all I'm convinced that had I gone with a cheap stain it would have been ruined by the unexpected rain. Will post final pics later in the week once it's all done.


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## housepaintingny

mark2741 said:


> Hooray for Sikkens! The heavy rain that started less than an hour after finishing applying the SRD stain, and lasted for about 45 minutes, did not effect the stain at all! Really impressed with it and, although I am not thrilled with the darker shade (hoping within a couple of days as it dries further and more sun it will lighten up some, but it will never be as light as I'd hoped), all in all I'm convinced that had I gone with a cheap stain it would have been ruined by the unexpected rain. Will post final pics later in the week once it's all done.


It will lighten some, but probably not as much as you would like. I have experienced similar situations applying Sikkens, where it rained unexpectedly shortly after application, but have never had a problem, because of that.


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## Renalnurse

*Sikkens vs. SW*



mark2741 said:


> Hooray for Sikkens! The heavy rain that started less than an hour after finishing applying the SRD stain, and lasted for about 45 minutes, did not effect the stain at all! Really impressed with it and, although I am not thrilled with the darker shade (hoping within a couple of days as it dries further and more sun it will lighten up some, but it will never be as light as I'd hoped), all in all I'm convinced that had I gone with a cheap stain it would have been ruined by the unexpected rain. Will post final pics later in the week once it's all done.


Where is the picture? After reading through all of your trials and tribulations, I am glad that you finally finished your project. Did you ever consider using SW Woodscapes or Deckscapes on your deck? I am just wondering with all the research you did if that was even an option for you. I have tried to research Sikkens vs. SW but get limited information.


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## Renalnurse

*Sikkens vs. SW*



housepaintingny said:


> It will lighten some, but probably not as much as you would like. I have experienced similar situations applying Sikkens, where it rained unexpectedly shortly after application, but have never had a problem, because of that.


I have read many of your quotes and must say very impressed. Too bad you aren't in N.Ga or I would hire you to stain my home and decks. Maybe you can help me though. I have several bids from several different contractors most of whom recommend Sikkens and two who recommended SW Woodscapes. I have a log sided home( probably constructed out of white pine) with pressure treated decks around it. When I bought it the decks were never treated thus they are grey. The home is in bad need of stain is mildewed with black mold etc. My question is how do you rate Sikkens Cetol 123 and SRD vs. SW Wood/Deckscapes. I have heard that once Sikkens in on the home you are pretty much married to it unless you cob blast it off which I can't afford to do right now. Is this true? Also, oil vs. impregnated stain...I am so confused and need to make a decision asap...I hope you can help me!!!


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## mark2741

Renalnurse said:


> Where is the picture? After reading through all of your trials and tribulations, I am glad that you finally finished your project. Did you ever consider using SW Woodscapes or Deckscapes on your deck? I am just wondering with all the research you did if that was even an option for you. I have tried to research Sikkens vs. SW but get limited information.


Aw man. Yeah I do need to post a pic. After all the time spent on that deck, and the support I got on here, I owe it to the forum. I will try to snap one and post it asap.

I did consider SW Deckscapes, as well as Cabots and others. I spent a lot of time on the internet and stopping by area paint stores and talking with the dealers. Everything kept steering me towards the Sikkens stains as the best. I kept getting told/reading blog posts (with pics) of how SW was breaking down quick. I can definitely say that the Sikkens stain is high quality and I have no doubt it will last at least 3 or 4 years if not more. Of course, that's based on my untrained eye but considering the heat we've endured this summer, it's not faded one bit yet.

Also, one of the major reasons I had so much trouble, aside from the constant rain in the Spring/early Summer, was that the damn stain manufacturers are complete knuckleheads. Both Cabots (at Lowes) and Sherwin Williams (via their store near me) would not provide or sell me sample cans of their stains. Sikkens did (and my local paint shop even gave me some for free of the various shades). Unfortunately, the shades in the sample are not always exact to the final product, I found out. 

It's been a few months now since I finally finished this project. I'm glad it's over. I'm proud that I was able to do such a large deck/project myself. If I had to do it all over again, to be honest, I'd seriously consider using a cheaper stain. Reason being is that I'm not thrilled with the color or finish of the Sikkens semi-transp stain. It's a 'matte' finsih - no shine whatsoever. It's dull. Apparently this is a common gripe with Sikkens semi.

Another gripe, and you may laugh but....by using a cheaper stain I would have the opportunity to re-do it in just a few years. : ) Seriously - now that I know what to do and how to do it, and the fact that I'm not enamored with the color of any of the Sikkens semi stains, I kinda would welcome the opportunity for a 'do-over'. And if I did, I would definitely heed the advice of the one poster who smartly told me to rent a big sander and sand the deck. I ignored that advice because there are so many nails I would have had to hammer down (at least 1000 on my deck). In hindsight, I should have just bought a nice hand disk/palm sander and did it all by hand. The finish wouldn't have turned out so dark. But that would have added to the time for this project and I already spent a LOT of time on it, and with the $250 in Sikkens stain, a lot of money. 

All that said....I've had numerous people come to the house and notice the deck and rave about the stain/color. Just the other day we had a fencing contractor come out to give us an estimate for installing a fence around our property. When I took him out back he looked at the deck and kept saying how much he loved the shade of the stain and how good it looks. Me - I think it's too dark (but that's because of the wood underneath), and I hate the fact that there is no shine/gloss to Sikkens SRD stains. That alone makes me regret using it.


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## Renalnurse

mark2741 said:


> Aw man. Yeah I do need to post a pic. After all the time spent on that deck, and the support I got on here, I owe it to the forum. I will try to snap one and post it asap.
> 
> I did consider SW Deckscapes, as well as Cabots and others. I spent a lot of time on the internet and stopping by area paint stores and talking with the dealers. Everything kept steering me towards the Sikkens stains as the best. I kept getting told/reading blog posts (with pics) of how SW was breaking down quick. I can definitely say that the Sikkens stain is high quality and I have no doubt it will last at least 3 or 4 years if not more. Of course, that's based on my untrained eye but considering the heat we've endured this summer, it's not faded one bit yet.
> 
> Also, one of the major reasons I had so much trouble, aside from the constant rain in the Spring/early Summer, was that the damn stain manufacturers are complete knuckleheads. Both Cabots (at Lowes) and Sherwin Williams (via their store near me) would not provide or sell me sample cans of their stains. Sikkens did (and my local paint shop even gave me some for free of the various shades). Unfortunately, the shades in the sample are not always exact to the final product, I found out.
> 
> It's been a few months now since I finally finished this project. I'm glad it's over. I'm proud that I was able to do such a large deck/project myself. If I had to do it all over again, to be honest, I'd seriously consider using a cheaper stain. Reason being is that I'm not thrilled with the color or finish of the Sikkens semi-transp stain. It's a 'matte' finsih - no shine whatsoever. It's dull. Apparently this is a common gripe with Sikkens semi.
> 
> Another gripe, and you may laugh but....by using a cheaper stain I would have the opportunity to re-do it in just a few years. : ) Seriously - now that I know what to do and how to do it, and the fact that I'm not enamored with the color of any of the Sikkens semi stains, I kinda would welcome the opportunity for a 'do-over'. And if I did, I would definitely heed the advice of the one poster who smartly told me to rent a big sander and sand the deck. I ignored that advice because there are so many nails I would have had to hammer down (at least 1000 on my deck). In hindsight, I should have just bought a nice hand disk/palm sander and did it all by hand. The finish wouldn't have turned out so dark. But that would have added to the time for this project and I already spent a LOT of time on it, and with the $250 in Sikkens stain, a lot of money.
> 
> All that said....I've had numerous people come to the house and notice the deck and rave about the stain/color. Just the other day we had a fencing contractor come out to give us an estimate for installing a fence around our property. When I took him out back he looked at the deck and kept saying how much he loved the shade of the stain and how good it looks. Me - I think it's too dark (but that's because of the wood underneath), and I hate the fact that there is no shine/gloss to Sikkens SRD stains. That alone makes me regret using it.


Well, you must be one handy do it yourselfer because my husband and I wouldn't even consider taking on a job like that.

So you did use SRD on the decks..I was looking into the SW Woodscapes which I know is a matte finish and the Deckscapes which has a sheen. I just don't know whaich one to go with. I have read too that Sikkens comes with no warranty and if you apply something else over it there is a possibility it may peel or crackle such as SW over exisisting Sikkens....

Thoughts?


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## CDragon

*mark2741, it's been two years. How did the stain hold up?

When we bought our house the previous owners had the termite repair guys rebuild the parking deck and against my advice, they stained it without sanding or doing any other surface prep. Despite being "new" wood from the lumber yard, the stain did not soak in at all and flaked off of large areas, leaving no trace it had even been there in under a year. Not long after they did their shoddy job, I sanded and stained (using the same stain) a couple test boards on the opposite deck. A deck that actually gets more sun than the parking deck. And in the same time period, those boards still look almost newly stained. So surface prep is incredibly important.

I do NOT recommend using a hand sander as it takes forever and it takes a lot of downward pressure to get off that old wood. Pushing down hard transfers a lot of vibration to your hands and your fingers will be tingling in 30 minutes. Plus it takes forever. Most advice I've read says to use a big floor drum sander with 60 grit and make long passes. Boards that are raised higher than other boards will gradually get shaved down to the level of neighbor boards so you'll need to sink nails in them deep. I think it's best to replace nails with screws, which does take a long time, but you'll never need to worry about them popping up over time. Use strong screws like GRK R4 or you'll have some breaking, however, since most screws are more fragile than nails.

There was an argument about sanding vs cleaning/brightening solutions towards the start of this thread. I only pressure washed with water and then sanded and as I said it looks great after over a year. Nowhere in this thread was it explained why cleaner/brightener would actually do better than just sanding, other than something vague about balancing ph. If nobody can point to a scientific study saying that it actually makes an appreciable difference, I don't think it's worth doing. As it stands, I think people are posting vague reasons to use brightener just to increase brightener sales or because they like being paid to spend extra time on a brightener step.

I searched Google and couldn't find any studies regarding deck brighteners, or even an explanation of how they might "open up pores", but one link mentioned the ph balancing of a brightener is meant to offset the use of cleaners, not to counteract any natural ph "imbalance" in the wood. If you sand down to clean, bright wood, a cleaner doesn't seem necessary to me since most stains have anti-fungal mixed in (and if you use water based stains they won't feed fungus like oil based will) and power washing should get rid of a lot of the crud anyway. It doesn't seem intuitive to me that brightener is going to make wood absorb stain any better. I will admit it says right on the side of my stain to use a cleaner, wash, then use a brightener, and that the brightener will "open up the pores" for the stain, but at the same time, they say to use cleaner/brightener from the same company so it's just as likely a pitch to sell you more stuff that isn't necessary. I can find hundreds of links on Google that claim you should use brightener because it "opens up the pores" but all those links also try to sell you their wood brightener. Nobody explains how it works or has studies showing it works. If anything, it seems to me that components of cleaners and brighteners will just get stuck in pores that would otherwise have absorbed stain, not open up the pores. **A guy on one forum thought the harsh cleaners/brighteners had actually weakened his wood, though who knows what his evidence was for that. If brightener actually does open pores, then it should make the wood buried in cracks you can't reach by sanding more receptive to soaking in stain, which should be a good thing. But it's hard to believe it would have that effect without some evidence or even an explanation. Having every stain company trying to sell you two more chemicals isn't very convincing, nor is it good for the ground below the deck or whatever else those chemicals will eventually seep into.
*


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