# Must re insulate!



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i did the same thing. have fun, its lots of work. the more helpers you have, the easier it will go.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Post up a picture of the interior an exterior. What sort of projects do you have coming up. Don't want you to duplicate efforts.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

I would use this situation to validate the purchase of a cheap bore scope for my tool collection. Never hurts to sneak a peak inside and reconnoiter what's going on. Makes it easier to formulate an effective plan of attack.


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Guess I need to start rallying the troops!


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

RCB50 said:


> Guess I need to start rallying the troops!


not so fast. first, you need to figure out just what you are dealing with = don't assume anything. 

then you need to develope a plan. then gather materials. 

what are your windows like ? do you like them otherwise ?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

1920's makes me think of balloon framing.
If so those walls are open from under the house to the attic unless someones fire blocked and insulated.
Old windows with window weights?
If so there's an open space at least 4" wide by the height of the window all the way to the outside with no insulation in it under the casing.
How much insulations in the attic. In your area it should be R-40 at least which is about 12".
Attic and crawls space or basement ever been air sealed?
Rim joist insulated?


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I have no idea the windows in the living room have been painted shut for the 3 years I've been here. I had a free energy efficiency test done and was able to get both attic spaces insulated with 18" of blown in insulation. I have storm windows on most of my windows and I always out plastic on them. My house is almost always cold in the winter. I usually have my heat set at 64 or 65 when I'm home 60 when I'm working and sleeping. I received a $300 bill for February so now my thermostat is set at 59 but I cant afford big bills if I want to put money aside to do this re-insulation job!


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

RCB -$300 heat bill for a northeast home after the coldest month in decades doesn't sound completely unreasonable. Of course sq footage and efficiency of heat source are also variables. Along with your other efforts, if offered by your utility company, you may want to consider a budget plan. Your utility co. simply takes your 12 month energy usage, divides by 12 and that will be your year round monthly payment. Your money banks up a little in the summer and then runs deficits in the winter. I also hate lg heat bills in the winter and have been using this pmt method for over 20 yrs. Others hate it and feel their getting the shaft in the summer. But you can follow all the meter reads and usages on the statements. And it all averages out after a 12 month cycle. Good luck with the insul. project!


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

RCB50 said:


> I have no idea the windows in the living room have been painted shut for the 3 years I've been here. I had a free energy efficiency test done and was able to get both attic spaces insulated with 18" of blown in insulation. I have storm windows on most of my windows and I always out plastic on them. My house is almost always cold in the winter. I usually have my heat set at 64 or 65 when I'm home 60 when I'm working and sleeping. I received a $300 bill for February so now my thermostat is set at 59 but I cant afford big bills if I want to put money aside to do this re-insulation job!


post some pics. we'll tell ya.

i can only imagine what the heating bill was for this house, before i started insulating it. i bet it was more than $300.


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## ThatDaveGuy (Dec 31, 2010)

I sympathize, our home is 1950 vintage and was built when heating oil was around 9c a tank truck. Apparently they turned the furnace on at Halloween and let it run nonstop 'til Easter.

You can't just look at insulation as the only or even best answer, you need to assess the whole structure and what it's doing. I spent a ton of time n effort insulating at the start since it was painfully cold, and got only incremental advantages. Last year I took off the siding, sealed/flashed all the window penetrations, repaired exterior issues, etc, and housewrapped the beast. Stopped all the drafts and voila! Instant huge improvement, all the previous insulating work started to pay off, house was massively warmer and more comfortable while the actual heating costs decreased. I had to solve a weird rim joist - crawlspace moisture + duct repairs - drafts X insulation equation to see any upgrade in comfort.


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the information. It sounds like I'll be doing a lot more necessary improvements than I realized. What do you think would be the first thing to do?


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

RCB50 said:


> Thanks for all the information. It sounds like I'll be doing a lot more necessary improvements than I realized. What do you think would be the first thing to do?


Exploration! The more you know about the structure the easier it will be to determine exactly what has to be done and in what order.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

Exactly, the more you know! You may want to consider having a home energy audit done. This will give you recommendations on what to do and the potential ROI for each. Should be able to have this svc. done free.

A little off topic but since you mentioned it, inoperable windows are a fire safety issue. I always wonder when I hear of house fire related deaths if someone was fighting with a window. Sorry for being a little morbid!


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

No problem. That's not morbid but a good reality check . Thanks. I'm gonna be doing a lot of research over the next couple of months. Along with filling out an application to maybe get some more stuff done for free!


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

start your research here and now. post some pics of the house = windows, doors, attic, basement.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

Here in Iowa it gets just as cold, my 1930 house had single pane windows and storm windows, I used to feel cold all the time and a draft, on very cold days I would get actual ICE on the inside of the glass in the kitchen when my computer desk is. I had to have a space heater behind my chair on all the time.
My attic has R-100 blown-in insulation and I created a wall within a wall on all exterior walls (which had blown-in insulation) so I could add 2 more inches of insulation using celotex, sheeted with 1/2" plywood (so I could screw heavy items anywhere I wanted on the walls) then sheetrock.

The answer as to why I was cold despite all that was those damn single pane double-hung windows, storm windows outside don't help much since the glass has so large of a gap between that and the double hung glass that it sets up a convection in there, the cold glass inside then chills the air next to it which creates that draft you feel but can never seem to find where the alleged air LEAK is coming from, there is no air leak it's purely convection currents of the cold heavier air falling to the floor and circulating.

*I replaced all the windows in the kitchen with new argon filled double glass, and the first winter I didn't even need the space heater any more! no more ice inside, for the first time the room actually felt WARM.*

The savings just not having to run a 1200 watt heater for 10 hours a day on my backside to make me warm I calculated paid for one of the windows the first winter, that was a calculated figure I was able to see on my electric bill, at least a 12 KW per day reduction, I had also needed another space heater on very low in the bedroom- one of those oil filled radiator types, once I replaced the two window sin the bedtoom I threw that heater out, no longer even needed.

After that I replaced all the rest of the windows with new ones, one or two at a time and the reduction is gas heat was also noticed, though not quite as dramatically noticeable as the electric reductions by eliminating TWO space heaters.
The savings there basically paid for the cost of 2 new windows each winter (installed them myself) I have 13 new windows, a large one in the former livingroom has not been replaced yet.
I foresee a 7 year maximum break-even on the new windows

*I always kept my thermostat set at 70 degrees 24/7 all winter,* I don't bother turning it down at night since it doesn't save anything when all the mass in the room, walls, floors etc cool down to 65 and then have to all be warmed back up again. The constant temperature is better for the woodwork etc anyway.

I have a 1,000 sq ft house with basement which is also heated, my gas bill is for gas heat, gas hot water, gas dryer and gas stove. I use the stove and cooktop in the kitchen every day and the gas dryer is used for about 4 loads a week;

*Jan 2015 137 therms $115.44 (includes a service charge of $10 whether any is used or not) and $1.14 tax)

Feb 2015 178 therms $144.20*

Electric averages 850 kw total, lights, furnace motor, washing machine, fridge, dryer motor. 
Then there's 2 monitors, computer backup spower supply, router, modem and 2 computers and 1 server *left on 24/7;*

The electric recently averages about $80/mo, with $8.50 being a service charge, though in December, January and I think February I had a ceramic kiln running too a number of times, that takes about $10 each cycle, so that $80 a month is closer to about $60 if the kiln is taken out of the picture, less if that service charge is not counted too.

My water heater has a pilot light, I specifically bought that one BECAUSE it does, people can claim what they like about pilots "wasting" gas, but I have found over the years with my gas water heaters that the pilot light alone keeps the tank of water 30 gals at the set point and keeps the BURNER OFF untill I actually use hot water.
The set point is on the low temperature on the dial, and the tank is well insulated, it's also in the basement which is heated which also makes a difference.
All the floors in my house are porcellain tile except 2 rooms which have hardwood, the heated basement warms the basement ceiling, which happens to be the floor, the tile is not cold.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Air sealing is often the best place to start. The highest insulation value is meaningless, if your infiltration rate is over 1 ACH.


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

What do you mean by infiltration rate? I looked it up and the only thing I could find was water penetrating soil....


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

RCB50 said:


> What do you mean by infiltration rate? I looked it up and the only thing I could find was water penetrating soil....


Google Air Sealing and Insulation. 

You will get all the reading you can handle.


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## RCB50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Thank you I'm finding lots of helpful information and tips on how to seal air leaks


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

There are several thread on this forum by a poster named Gary that are chock full of really good information. 

You will have information overload if you want it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

RCB50 said:


> What do you mean by infiltration rate? I looked it up and the only thing I could find was water penetrating soil....


LOL, sorry. I forget not everyone knows the terminology of my trade. As you know now, air entering your house.


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## Greg.Now (Feb 23, 2015)

Fix'n it said:


> not so fast. first, you need to figure out just what you are dealing with = don't assume anything.
> 
> then you need to develope a plan. then gather materials.
> 
> what are your windows like ? do you like them otherwise ?


This is the should always be how you approach a problem of any sort. You're gonna have a bad time if you do otherwise. I once wasted $50 of gas for $10 worth of little things I forgot to get before a fix of some sort. Never again.


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