# Flowable self leveling concrete?



## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Grout is what you are describing----it is used to fill voids ---

Are you making a tiled niche ? If so--low expanding foam will do---blue can (window and door)

Then waterproof it well using a paint on waterproofing like Red Guard or Hydro Ban


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Quikrete has a grout product that may be of benefit in your application.

http://www.quikrete.com/productlines/NonShrinkPrecisionGrout.asp


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

+1 to what oh'mike said,depending on how much you need, bagged Quikcrete will work just fine also.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

oh'mike said:


> Grout is what you are describing----it is used to fill voids ---
> 
> Are you making a tiled niche ? If so--low expanding foam will do---blue can (window and door)
> 
> Then waterproof it well using a paint on waterproofing like Red Guard or Hydro Ban


Yes. But I wanted to fully secure the cement board box in the current cavity. I feel better if it's secured by grout instead of foam.

Once completed I will be using Schluter membrane over everything.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

Fairview said:


> Quikrete has a grout product that may be of benefit in your application.
> 
> http://www.quikrete.com/productlines/NonShrinkPrecisionGrout.asp


Will this product have enough flow properties to fill the cavities under, behind and to the sides without having to compress or stir mechanically?

I read the install guide and it says this:

A. Forms must be water tight, strong, properly braced, and properly coated.
B. Allow a minimum clearance of 2 inches (50 mm) between forms and baseplate for grout entry.
C. Allow a minimum grout head of 6 inches (150 mm).
D. Slope form on placing side to assist in grout movement and to prevent trapping air.
E. Allow 1 inch (25mm) horizontal clearance and 1 inch (25 mm) vertical clearance for height above bottom of baseplate.
F. Provide venting of forms to avoid entrapment of air.


I am planning to seal off all the edges from the front. Then open a cell on the concrete block directly above. Punch a hole on the bottom of that cell, then pour in the flowable grout. I am hoping the grout will flow to the cell below, and fill up all the empty spaces?


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

1st it began as a conc wall so where'd the block cavity come from ?

your directions are for horizontal placement ( grout plates ) so you'll have to make some changes,,, howzabout making a box smaller than your opening then use tapcons securing the box to the blocks,,, fill w/hydraulic & be done w/it OR, as previously suggested, use the foam-in-a-can

we install steel-reinforced grouted wall pins to strengthen foundation block walls that have moved ' IN ' from plumb however we use a manual grout pump,,, pouring it makes a mess & you lose about 25% of the mtl.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

miamicuse said:


> Will this product have enough flow properties to fill the cavities under, behind and to the sides without having to compress or stir mechanically?
> 
> I read the install guide and it says this:
> 
> ...


Being A. in the instructions say forms must be water tight I would think it flows well.

I'm having a little trouble visualizing this project but I'm suspecting venting air may possibly be important since air has difficulty exiting through the same opening as being poured through. Common casting terminology - sprue hole and vent hole.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

Fairview said:


> Being A. in the instructions say forms must be water tight I would think it flows well.
> 
> I'm having a little trouble visualizing this project but I'm suspecting venting air may possibly be important since air has difficulty exiting through the same opening as being poured through. Common casting terminology - sprue hole and vent hole.


I am reading the same, water tight probably implies it will seek out voids to spread into.

I know the description is hard to visualize. So let me try this.

Imagine you have a dresser with one single drawer. The drawer is in the closed position. I want to open a hole on top of the dresser and pour in this mix, and I am hoping the poured mix will fill in all the space inside the dresser, all the way around the top, bottom and sides of the drawer.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Excellent description. If there is even a slight difference in elevation of the "dresser top" :thumbup: I would think a vent hole would be advantageous on the high end even if it was no more than a 1/4" hole and possibly even if the top is level.


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

I tried looking for the recommended Quikrete Non-Shrink Precision Grout at local home centers, no one carries it. But I found this.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...nstruction+grout&storeId=10051#specifications

*SAKRETE 50 lb. Non-Shrink Construction Grout *












Here is the installation guide.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/64/64dd2162-e1e4-4e31-ad9f-e16d138b967e.pdf

Desired Grout Consistency:
Flowable (Pumping Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7kg) Grout, approximately 1.1
Gallons Water (4.2 L)
Plastic (Trowel Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7 kg) Grout, approximately 1.0 Gallon
Water (3.8 L)

Using the flowable consistency guideline, I mixed a small batch to test. I end up with something the consistency of honey. I poured that into a plastic flower pot with some debris in the bottom. However it did not self level, may be the surface tension or viscosity? It didn't seek the lowest level like pouring syrup on pancakes it sort of flow a little but did not fill in all the bottom cervices as I had hoped. Should I further dilute more than what's spece'd?


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

miamicuse said:


> I tried looking for the recommended Quikrete Non-Shrink Precision Grout at local home centers, no one carries it. But I found this.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...nstruction+grout&storeId=10051#specifications
> 
> ...


 
Yes add small amounts of water until you get it to flow like you want it too,just be sure you keep track of how much total water you use.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

miamicuse said:


> By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?


 


Yes form oil is whats used,but i doubt you'll find any in small amounts,but you can use a 5 wt.motor oil or mineral oil would work also,just don't have it dripping wet with oil,probably need a couple coats.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

miamicuse said:


> By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?


Mop 'n' Glo also works pretty well.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

diesel fuel unless you're a tree-hugger :laughing: saran-wrap, too


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## miamicuse (Nov 13, 2011)

mop n glo? diesel fuel?

serious?

what about mineral spirit or WD40? :laughing:


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If appearance will be a concern I recommend testing any type of petroleum product release agent before doing the final project. The oils and even paraffin, that I thought would be the ultimate trick I ever thought of, left pocks when the form was removed.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

miamicuse said:


> mop n glo? diesel fuel?
> 
> serious?
> 
> what about mineral spirit or WD40? :laughing:


 
Mineral spirits doesn't have enough oil left after the refineing process,WD 40 would probably work a little better but i think you would have to lay it on pretty heavy,because it will soak in pretty good.


And Morts answer i'm sure is serious,as is the diesel fuel,because of the wax and oil in the products mentioned.


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## Mort (Nov 26, 2008)

miamicuse said:


> mop n glo? diesel fuel?
> 
> serious?
> 
> what about mineral spirit or WD40? :laughing:


Serious. A guy at work uses Mop N Glo on his mixer, and the concrete splatter doesn't stick at all.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

We've been known to use a highly classified mixture of off-road diesel and heavy hydraulic oil in the past........... :whistling2:


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

back in the day we didn't have the epa OR form/release oils in present day formulations,,, we all knew oil & water didn't mix hence jomama's proprietary elixir or, for us common folk, diesel fuel,,, cheap, reliable, easily sourced, & worked well :whistling2:


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## Guywithskills (Jan 4, 2013)

I do like the quickcrete product for overlay. They have dozens of mixes and come with additives, adhesives already in the mix. Dont add too much water... just the right amt is best.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

agree w/quikrete opinion however most users will not prep correctly, ' work ' the product correctly ( wtr added / troweling / finishing ), or choose the wrong mtl for the work needed,,, for our o'lay work, we only use bagg'd conc mix mtls from specialty supplier,,, we'd also never buy any epoxies from apron/vest stores


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