# Building a new deck......suggestions? thoughts?



## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

So, I'm building a new deck at my house and wanted to share my plan and get suggestions, ideas, and comments. I posted over at gardenweb, but it seems like the whole forum there (while FULL of great posts) isn't getting hardly any new posts or replies AT ALL.

*Per a couple suggestions, I'm breaking this into a few threads regarding the deck and the granite ideas so please see the other threads about the granite.*

Additionally, I've gained access to scrap granite from a countertop installer and I have a few ideas. I'll share those ideas in a separate thread so please look for it and give all suggestions and comments you can.
Thanks

*DECK:*
Ok, so the deck. Due to my door elevation, and the grade behind the house, here is the plan:
At a sliding glass door off my sunroom, I've already built a 15'x10'ft section that runs the length of the sunroom that you see in the picture. The two corners away from the house, near those trees are "chamfered off" 3ft back from the corner both ways. That gives the angled sides to be 4'3" long.

From that, I'm stepping up (and continuing down beside the house, towards the fireplace 18ft, and out into the yard 18ft. It'll actually be 22ft long at 10 ft away from the house, since the raised section follows the contour of the "chamfer" on the smaller 15'x10' section. Make sense?

I'll try to attach a sketch if I can figure out how.

The section at the door only has a 4"x4" "joist" at the shallow end for a face board and that 4"x4" clears the ground by only 1.5". It gradually gets higher at the other end so that down there a 2x6 clears the ground by about 8".
The step up, larger section, will obviously be 7.5" higher, at its shallow end and gets some higher from there. Never high enough to need a hand rail so I'm only doing benches on the perimeter.

Off of the large section, on the far opposite corner from where the door is, I'm "chamfering" that off as well and there will be a gazebo pushed up against that corner such that you walk right into it off the deck there. It's the nice composite material and fully screened. It came with this house. The smaller section is sitting on about 20 concrete blocks with 4"x4" "posts". The tallest post there is only about 8inches tall or less. The large section will also use blocks and posts but additionally will have about 6 posts will be dug down and have concrete poured around em for extra stability. its a freestanding deck, not attached to the house.

I'm building the whole thing out of standard pressure treated pine lumber as this is not my dream house, and I'll prob be here less than 7 years.

I will be stain/sealing it so I'd love suggestions there. I've read LOTS of opinons on what to use. One Time Wood, TWP, Cabot, Sikken, Olympic Max, and others. I'm def leaning toward something semi transparent, or even less.."toned" as its called and something oil based that soaks in. Not a top coater. I'll buy at the big box store, or order online, if I just knew what to get. I need to decide because I hope to be ready to seal it by next week.

I love a rich light red/cedar color, but I've read to go as light as I can stand it, because it'll get darker over the years as more layers are added.
Also, the gazebo has a grey deck, and a light creme colored framing so it sort of needs to match it, but I do NOT want a grey deck.

UPDATE on Sealer: I'm leaning toward "One Time Wood" at this point because I'm finding positive comments from anyone who has used it and had it fr several years.

Suggestions, ideas, and thoughts welcome!!

Deck Site:


Sunroom is from the middle to the right in this pic.
Deck will go all the way across the back of that fireplace.



Gazebe I'm tying into the deck:


Deck Plan:


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Willie T didn't like my black background screen. this is what I use every day. Much easier on the eyes. Sorry if others don't like it.


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

That looks like a great conventional layout, and would likely add value to the property with the added outdoor living space for families and/or parties. 
Nice idea. There's good "flow" through the living room/sunroom/deck/gazebo. 

-Hopefully the yard extends far enough back on the left that it wouldn't cramp it. Might be zoning issue as well. 
That looks like a big deck. Too big? Perhaps draw the outlines in marking paint and walk around the yard first. It shouldn't overpower.
Drainage first before any construction.

-Use natural or other stain(not red) with that cool yellow siding. Tough call on what color would blend with granite.
Mabye some yellow/white plants might blend it in? Purple or red to offset? This is where I start getting headaches lol. 

-You could add a roof over the cook area, and add some small steps on the right(unless that space is better closed off). Can't see the yard/neighbors.

-With the gazebo, the florida room may be redundant.

When it's done, throw a steak on and some cold ones for me, eh:thumbup:


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks man!! I appreciate the nice comments.
Question though, whatt do you mean "great conventional layout"? As opposed to great dynamic layout? Could it be better done a different way?

Ok, so, to your comments, my house sits directly in the back of a culdasac. So, its about 50 feet from the back face of my house to the rear fence. At the back of the property line, Its about 120 I'd say from the far back left corner to the far back right corner.
In summary, it's a good size back yard for a small neighborhood type lot, so I think its plenty big to handle this deck. 

For drainage, I've already run 140 feet of french drain line from under both ends of this deck area and taken them away to a slope. Water was holding after a rain, for days, but its been much better since I did those.

As for stain, I'm leaning toward the One Time Wood stuff at $90.00 a gallon annd probably the natural tone. I like cedar, but I think it'll look too red as you said. I call that vinyl almond myself, maybe its in the yellow family?


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

The right end is VERY shallow. As in, the face board at that end is a 4"x4" and its only 1.5" above the ground there. That is where I thought of doing some granite stepping stones as a pad or path from there. That end goes around toward the side, and you can go through a double gate to the front yard. If you walked directly off the deck to the right there, its probably about 35 feet to the fence that divides from the next neighbors yard.

Maybe tomoorow I can add a couple photos of the granite I have for the grill area counters.

Any opinion on whether you'd build it in like a cabinet with deck board faces, or make it like an overhanging counter that you could pull a bar stool up to??

Also, any opinion on whether you'd try to square the granite up like a counter, or install it with a rough "rock face"?

Lastly, yes, the florida room is redundant. Its well built, and currently has this nice blue carpet in it. I'm being sarcastic about the carpet. I'm gonna remove the carpet, put down some "nice" lenolium that actually looks like real tile with grout, and open up a huge wall section 9ftx6ft between the livingroom and the sunroom. Then I'm putting in 3 full doors but with folding hardware so they behave like a set of closet bi-fold doors, except with three instead of 2 doors, so tri-fold i guess it is. lol

I'm putting a pool table in that "florida" room, and full plantation blinds up to match the rest of the house. Tthis way it'll become more a part of the house instead of a sunroom.

Lastly, please look at my two creative granite use threads in the general discussion forum (they got moved) for details of that deck fireplace I want to build. Does that sound dangerous or just dumb?

thanks a bunch. Love the comments, and hopefully others will join in!!


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

You have a good property layout to start out with, I'd kill for another 20 feet of yard and a 2 car. 

When we bought our place, there were a couple huge (dirty)siberian elms growing up through the deck, no steps, just the left garden bed, and the yard was grass. 
The concrete edgers are from a couple steps and a slab left by the seller. When there's lemons make lemonade.
This is our second spring in the new house, and are loving it! The arbor will have climing roses over it and will help divide the yard but here's plenty more planting/landscaping to do. 
In retrospect though, the pavers are wrong and the layout too boxy/inefficient with three straight paths. Beginners mistakes. Might have done it differently if there was more time. We certainly won't be able to resell it to a big sports family with a large dog.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Hey, thanks for the pic and the kind words. Your yard looks pretty deep. You've put quite a bit of effort into those beds and paths. I'll save that for a woman to plan out. If I get my deck and things going, i'll be happy for now. Well, technically the deck is going. The 15x10 section is basically finished and I'm getting to framing tomorrow on the large section. I'm laying all my decking such that the first two deck boards will go all the way around the contour of the deck, and tthen the whole middle left will just fill in. The fill in on the small section runs parallel to the house and the fillin on the larger section will run perpendicular to the house. 

Another decision to be made is what to do about lighting, and do I want my benches to just be cool looking, or be able to raise the top for storage underneath. I saw one where they lit under the benches. Also could do some kind of fixtures sticking up from the ground. There is power at the gazebo now, which i'll dig and reroute to the new location, so it would be no big deal to add a couple branches to fixtures there. 

Check out this guys work. Amazing!
http://www.deckmastersllc.com/showcase.php

Look at the bench in the picture, 3 up from the bottom right. Very cool design. He explained that its just a frame of pine, with a 2x4 ledge inside it, and then the decking filling in the middle. Seems doable and nice. 

Tthe benches on row 6 from the top are amazing but look far too complicated. 

Also, the tables, on the second column from the left, 9 rows down are pretty sweet, but that design would never support a slab of granite. 

Maybe I should get a little rought iron table like you have and use one of my free granite slabs on it. 

Hey, what state are you in?


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

That site has some beautiful work. Very inspirational, thx. Amazing what can be done with a little extra planning and work. 
-The father has a craftsman-style home, and just putting a small block of wood inbetween every other square spindle on the stairs added an elegant touch.
-A neighbor with a modern house has a raised planter bed along the sidewalk of alternating 4x4s and 2x6s capped off with a 2x8, all stained. Grabs the eye immediately and pushes out the horizontal. 

I'm guessing that company has some sort of high pressure steam press for those curved 2x sections, or an extensive clamping/bending system of steel pegs and pulleys.

I'm located in Mich. 
We were also thinking at first of building some built-in raised planters, bench seats, with a screen and/or trellis system. However, the existing deck boards are ratty and the whole thing is supported, somehow, by four support posts scattered in the center. 
The deck is only 12x13, and the yard extends 40feet beyond that, so whatever we build will have to be small to avoid the claustophobia effect.
Decisions, decisions. In the meantime it's functional and there are other projects.

Keep us updated. (sorry about the off-topic landscpaing)


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Here are a couple pictures of what we got done this weekend.

Note, the fully decked small platform was done over the previous two weekends.

This weekend was only for framing up the big 18x18 platform


Note, the area in the center of the pic above will be framed in. Tthe large deck will follow the contour of the smaller deck, back to the corner where the screw box is sitting, then go out towards the tree, and then 45 back into the 18' 2x board you see here.





...and here are those pieces of scrap granite I'm gonna use for a counter around my grill.


Namely, the grill will be flanked by the piece nearest in the picture and the piece to the far right.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Wow. I'd stop there and get some help. You need proper piers, proper beams, post to beam connections, hangers on all joists, eliminate the flat ledger 2x4 under the center joists (collects water), proper soil drainage, remove vegetation, extend the downspout water, possibly safety glass issues, over-spanning of beam joists between bearing posts.

It looks like 2x8 and 2x10 joists. Did you notch the bottom of the 2x10's and rip them over the cantilever?
Be safe, G


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Thank you for your post but that wont be necessary. My father is helping, and esecially with all the bracing and wood sizes. There willl be more legs dropping to the ground, and several legs are down in concrete and I don't need any of those piers, or hangers and all that jazz. There will also be blocking between each joist. This thing will be rock solid until lonng after I'm gone from this house. An elephant could jump rope on this thing while a baby slept on the other side.
Thanks


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

GBAR in WA said:


> Wow. I'd stop there and get some help. You need proper piers, proper beams, post to beam connections, hangers on all joists, eliminate the flat ledger 2x4 under the center joists (collects water), proper soil drainage, remove vegetation, extend the downspout water, possibly safety glass issues, over-spanning of beam joists between bearing posts.
> 
> It looks like 2x8 and 2x10 joists. Did you notch the bottom of the 2x10's and rip them over the cantilever?
> Be safe, G


GBAR has a good eye, and caught a number of issues that need to be addressed. Overall, I like the design, but it DOES seem like you may have started a little too eagerly.

Several more from both a structural and design perspective could have been considered and incorporated (and still can) if you grab yourself one of the many deck building books (or timber/framing books) available.

Since GBAR brought most of this up, do yourself a favor and pick his brain on the structural and safety issues. I'm not primarily a deck contractor, so his words would be better heeded than mine. But I would suggest some construction design additions.

Rails, steps, lamp posts, fire pits and benches are a bummer to try and add on later or safely work into the overall plan. Considering their need and placement while still way down at the ground-level foundational stage is key. None of these things should be "add-ons", but rather incorporated into the actual foundational and structural framework.

A 6 x 6 base support narrowed to a 4 x 4, projecting on up through the deck level to post or railing height provides solid continuity that is tough to match with nailed or screwed on after thoughts. Bench backs work the same way. Make them part of the structure.

"Half lap" joints lock things together fantastically. And if you take the time to learn a handful of other timber joints, you can do some amazing construction that results in not only an attractive and sturdy deck, but a unique one too.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Tthanks Willi for your kind thoughts. In some regards hes right about joist spacing, BECAUSE we are not finished yet. As far as hangers vs ledgers, nah, not buyin. I feel confident that my father has built more outdoor wood projects than most here have read or thought about and if he says its structurally sound, it's structuraly sound. Between his know-how, and my mechanical engineering background, strength, support, and such are not of concern.

gbar may be a greatt builder, and obviously saw things that we also saw, because we aren't done blocking and bracing yet. But it does make it a little more difficult to think I'm doing something wrong when he mentions drainage as an issue since he did not bother to read in another post here that I've already installed 140 feet of french drain line going out from under the deck towards both ends.

There are no railing posts because there wont be any railings, only perimeter benches. 

As for "add-ons" I feel like I've thought it out fairly well and I don't want any fixed permanent heavy thing in the middle. Adding it off the back side near my fireplace made more sense to me. 

That small covered section in the pic has about 40 support pts touching the ground. Its very sturdy with minimal spans. This will be the same when we finish.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Well, it is your deck. But I would feel as though I weren't doing you (and especially others reading this) right if I didn't back GBAR's warnings on exterior ledgers exposed to rain water. Yes, they WILL eventually rot if not either installed with a "standoff" gap for drainage, or built into a flashing made for the purpose (as shown in the picture).

*EDIT:* Some questions have been raised about this picture. Well, there are a couple of things wrong with this picture. I stole it from the University of California's website to show what a flashed ledger board would look like. My bad for not looking more carefully at the photo.

One, lagging a ledger is not bad IF (and this is a big IF) the ledger board is fully flashed down its face with long flashing that covers all the bolt heads. The flashing in the photo does not. And that is bad because water can get to the bolt heads, seeping into the wood. There are ways around this, but most people don't bother to employ those safeguards. Not cool.

Secondly, this ledger board is not high enough. A ledger like this should run upward much more than shown, high enough to be exactly flush with (or even an eighth of an inch above) the top surfaces of the deck boards, themselves. The reason for this is that leaves and junk will settle in behind the edges of the deck boards, being held and trapped there by the low ledger board. This is a moisture trap, and a breeding ground for mold which creates rot. It looks a little phony to leave that edge of flashing showing, but it's safer than hoping tightly fitted boards won't shrink enough over time to eventually provide that trench in which to trap debris.

I apologize for posting a photo with questionable construction practices displayed. But perhaps this can serve as a lesson on some of the things NOT to do. :thumbsup:


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## Aggie67 (Dec 20, 2008)

Let me guess. No permit pulled, no zoning application filled out.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Although this is just a simple deck edge, with no border, this is the idea on the extending posts... for lamp posts, railing posts, bench supports, etc.

And they don't have to be 4 x 4 as shown. In fact, I do corners at 5 x 5. All the outsides still line up with the edge. (Nominal measurements used here for simplicity.)

As usual, if you cannot see it well, "ZOOM" it up to 150% or 200% by using the <PAGE> feature at the upper right of your toolbar.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

Hanging the deck through a ledger and attaching with lag screws? - Not legal or sensible in most areas, but some areas will permit it.

Is that really short counter flashing? How do you seal around the screws when the wood shrinks or you do the silcone and washer routine?

I love to see these because I get work out of the moisture related failures.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

concretemasonry said:


> Hanging the deck through a ledger and attaching with lag screws? - Not legal or sensible in most areas, but some areas will permit it.
> 
> Is that really short counter flashing? How do you seal around the screws when the wood shrinks or you do the silcone and washer routine?
> 
> I love to see these because I get work out of the moisture related failures.


 
Who are you asking? Mine isnt attached to the house.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Rhizzlebop said:


> Who are you asking? Mine isnt attached to the house.


Nor are mine. That picture is from the University of California website... it's the only one I had that showed using flashing over the ledger. (I get tired of always drawing up something ) And since ledgers are being used here, it sure ain't gonna hurt to flash them.

I don't even do that. If I use an exposed ledger, it's on standoffs to let the water flow on by between the pieces of lumber.

The previously posted photo text has been edited. Please go read.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

I see Willie. When I think ledger, I think a plate bolted to the house that joists hang from. I see that my ripped 2x4 is technically a ledger. I have 3" deck screws in that ledger at several random locations along its length AS WELL as another directly underneath each joist.

Also, I have 6 3" deck screws into each end of each joist holding it to that doubled beam.

There will also be blocking staggered down both sets of joists, and then more vertical support legs coming off of those.

I don't believe I need those expensive dek block things. That to me is someones marketing hype, and someone is rich off of those and I have nearly the same footprint under my posts for a fraction of the cost.

I also currently have 6 legs down in holes, and will have concrete around em and may have a few more dug before we're done bracing this thing up.

If anyone thinks it'll help, I'll go and paint on a coating of One Time Wood around the joist/beam/ledger tie in area there, but in general, I'm not worried about that rotting and going anywhere.

As far as inspectors and such. I pretty much know all of em as I work in consulting engineering. They don't have time to worry about someone building a deck on their house when they have contractors in commercial buildings to keep up with and prevent shoddy work.
(This economy especially has brought every residential "contractor" out of the woodwork, trying to pick up commercial jobs.) But in general, I'm not worried about it.

Also, you guys do know, that I am not in a frost heave area right? You can barely freeze the water in a hose pipe around here, So. Car.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I was under the impression that screws do not have the shear (?) rating & that is why nails are needed? - IE foe beam connections

I won't bury wood underground, just asking for rot


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## bbudlong (May 19, 2009)

Holy cow! I really hate leaving negative comments, but you really have a disaster waiting to happen. You have nice skills as shown with the deck that is partially finished. The finish carpentry looks good. But it looks like the framing is "thrown together". No hangers, no bolts, no nails. Scuba Dave is correct, screws do not have a shear rating unless they are specifically designed for structural connections (ledgerlocks, GRK RSS, etc) But, it looks like you are using decking screws. These are not strong enough. Also most "cheap" deck screws will corrode in the pressure treated lumber. Please think about using a structural connector at the point loads to the post. Take a look at the "professionals" websites. Their framing and construction methods doesn't look anything like this. I can understand respecting your father construction experience, but this is your family that will be standing on this deck for years to come. Using a 2x4 screwed to the undersided beam because you didn't want to spend the money on some z-max joist hangers, come on. It will be sooooo much easier and less expensive to do it right the first time. 

I am truly not saying this to be personal against you. I have done enough of my own screwups and learning experiences. The first time i finished a basement was a disaster. I had experience with deck construction and it didn't translate into interior stuff. Take some of the advice that people are throwing at you. You asked for the advice. It's how we all learn.

Keep the pictures coming. Based on your finishing skills and creativity, I bet the finished product will look great. Are you planning on lighting?


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## Aggie67 (Dec 20, 2008)

Rhizzlebop said:


> As far as inspectors and such. I pretty much know all of em as I work in consulting engineering. They don't have time to worry about someone building a deck on their house when they have contractors in commercial buildings to keep up with and prevent shoddy work.


A bit of advice: You know you can lose your engineering license if you knowingly participate in an un-permitted construction project?

You mentioned the inspectors trying to keep up with shoddy work. From an engineer's perspective, I'm not sure I see what the difference is between what you say the inspectors are trying to keep up with, and what you're doing to your profession.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Rhizzlebop said:


> I see Willie. When I think ledger, I think a plate bolted to the house that joists hang from. I see that my ripped 2x4 is technically a ledger. I have 3" deck screws in that ledger at several random locations along its length AS WELL as another directly underneath each joist.
> 
> Also, I have 6 3" deck screws into each end of each joist holding it to that doubled beam.
> 
> ...


To be honest with you, drawing from decades of construction work, I have very little concern about the strength of most of your connectors. After all, our fathers and grandfathers built lasting structures with many of the same basic, sound construction techniques for generations long before any of these required connectors came along. Some still remain standing around here after hurricanes have blown down many of the adjacent structures "safeguarded" by thousands of dollars worth of Simpson stamped steel.

But the positive aspects that I see of these new fastening innovations is that they provide a simple substitute for understanding and utilizing those time-proven techniques. So the use of inferior lumber today, and the smaller nominal lumber sizes, and the thinner, shorter nails in use today... not to mention the horrible abuses of good construction fastening techniques brought on by the wide-spread use of nail guns... can often be somewhat offset by incorporating many of these aggravating metal fasteners.

Let's face it, for the most part, few of us are the same quality carpenters that built the sailing ships of yesteryear. What we call a carpenter on most construction jobs today, would have only been an apprentice or a helper on jobs of a hundred years ago.

Because of all this, despite the good nails you guys have driven, and the tight cuts, it is more than advisable to just spend another $200 on the deck and add some modern insurance.

Having said all that............. Just like many other people on this forum, much of my work is repairing and replacing some fairly good quality work done by guys like your father (and ME before I began seeing the eventual results of my actions) because of little more than plain old ROT.

Water feeds all life on this planet. And mold, which creates rot, is a life form. Unknowingly we constantly provide water traps in much of our construction. Those wet, soggy traps are an invitation to mold to move right in and start eating our house. Anything at all we can do to eliminate or separate our construction materials from a fresh water source (salt water is really not conducive to rot proliferation) is nothing but a big PLUS in the hopeful longevity of our building.

Your suggestion of painting the surfaces is a step in the right direction. However, the rain water pretty much sheds off exposed surfaces, and the wood dries out in a few days Dry wood does not rot. (The term"dry-rot" is a misnomer coined way back in old England because people thought the mold they were looking at "looked" dry.) Where the eventual damage will occur - and it WILL - is the area behind the ledger board where the wood never gets a chance to dry out except in the driest part of the year.


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

Rhizzlebop said:


> That small covered section in the pic has about 40 support pts touching the ground. Its very sturdy with minimal spans. This will be the same when we finish.


Hey Rhizzle, I like the design you have come up with. It will look fantastic.

However, I am a little concerned and am trying to provide some constructive criticism (Hey guys, you like that pun). 

I am no expert and not a mechanical engineer, but isn't the fact that you need 40 supports points touching the ground for such a small area is because something is lacking structurally? And how many of those 40 support points have wood in direct contact with the ground? 


Rhizzle, I can see that you are caught between a rock and a hard place. You can't very well go back to your dad and say, Not good enough, we have to rebuild. On the other hand I think you know the advice you were given by the experts here (again I am not an expert) is valuable and 99% of the time is the correct way to do things. This is their livelihood. They do this day in and day out.

Personally I don't see why they waste their time trying to instruct DIYers who don't care about doing things the right way.

Edit: I just noted that you don't plan on being in this house more than 7 years. That explains a lot.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

drtbk4ever said:


> Hey Rhizzle, I like the design you have come up with. It will look fantastic......
> 
> ......I am no expert and not a mechanical engineer, but isn't the fact that you need 40 supports points touching the ground for such a small area is because something is lacking structurally? And how many of those 40 support points have wood in direct contact with the ground?
> 
> ...


drtbk4ever, to be honest, I'm not 100% certain if you're writing to me with a heloful tone, or one of cynicism , so, I will choose to take it as helpful, and say thank you.

You are pretty much on the right track with most of your comments. I am stuck between knowing a "better" way, and a "proven" way (aka dad).

He's built more than most here have thought of building.

To your question about the other deck with 40 pts. It has 40, because I kept pushing to have more. He said it didn't need them. None are touching the ground. They are all on blocks.

Nails may have a stronger sheer strength, but it could be one of those things of of where, its either, twice as strong as it needs t0 be, or 3 times as strong. Which is "strong enough"? Probably both.

I personally feel a lot better about screws with threads holding it together than nails that can and DO pull out.

I am actually going to extra expense just to screw it all together because nails are cheaper. These DIY shows use 2.5" deck screws. I and dad disagree. We are using 3" because it gives more to bite into.

When I've tied a joist in with 6 screws, I've spread that stress out from the bottom to the top of that joist, and they are angled in so that the stress goes across the width of the grain.

Also, the timeline is part of this. If I were building this deck for the next 40 years, maybe I'd build a LITTLE DIFFERENTLY (MAYBE). However, the owner after me probably wont maintain it, or wont even like it. On my, <10yr outlook, it'll be fine I'm confident.

As far as me asking for suggestions and then questioning them. I did ask for them. I got them. I also was hoping to get use/asthetics/functionality ideas and suggestions but really only one guy has chimed in with some of those thus far. Hopefully more will as I take all suggestions to heart and I place a value on them and then decide whether to act on them or not.

Also, I think it was Willie who was spot on when he said that a lot of the "new technology" or "right way" is to dummy proof things. IE, its harder for someone to screw up a hanger. But, it takes a craftsman to build it from scratch. The entire time we've been working on this, dad has been commenting at how I could drive a truck across this thing and it wouldn't move. I've really enjoyed me and him getting to do this together as he's almost to the age that he can't do this at all anymore, and I'd be hard pressed to tell him he's wrong on the structure.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Also, thank you for the kind words on the finish of that first section. I'm very proud of its appearance as well.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

bbudlong, I do need some lighting, and I'm not sure how to handle it.

The current location of the gazebo has power run to it. It has a fan that's switched inside the gazebo, so it's just live power out there, not a switched leg. This is good and bad. I have to dig up the end of that run, and reroute/add to it, and run it to the new gazebo location. I can takeoff along the way and drop a couple junction boxes for exterior deck lighting, of some kind (suggestions?)

I can also drop a couple exterior outlets for running landscaping lighting off a transformer, or for any power I need outside there, like the projector and stereo receiver for outdoor movies.

I wish I had a switched leg out there too from the house that I could turn exterior lights on and off from inside, but I don't right now. Maybe you have an idea? Route a switch leg back to an exterior switch near the door to the sunroon, exterior mounted? Not sure.

I wasn't planning on any railings, only perimeter benches, so I guess I can't do rail post cap lights.

I saw one deck that had strips under the benches.

I need controllable light to make outdoor activities work, but yet not glare on the projected screen. Ideas?


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

I want to thank everyone for their comments and ideas. I hope I did not seem to belittle or discount anyone constructive criticism as I know it is all well intended.
Thank you


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

Hey Rhizzle,

Be sure to post more photos when the project is complete.

I too think the under bench lighting would look great.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

I will definately do that. Would anyone care to comment as to whether it might look better to make my granite "grill area" counter sections with smooth edges, or leave the granite chunks rough cut? (I think they call it a rock face finish).

I posted a thread about this in the general area, but not a single hit.

I'm gonna flank the grill with some counters. Either like a bar that you could sit at, or more like a full cabinet for outdoor storage there. I have chunks of granite that are 4 and 5 feet long, and I can trim them down and get 18" clean width, or I can use a hammer and rough up the edge more (take out the drill hole marks) and get between 18 and 20" of width, with a jaggy edge.

I'm not sure which would work better for this application.


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

I really like the look of the rock face finish. 

Especially in an outdoor setting I think that would look better than a smooth finish.

I am even going to contemplate using that edge finish in my kitchen when we add the granite countertop. Of course it has to meet with approval from the Boss.

Do any of the experts have any concerns with this?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

The only thing I can think of with the rough edge is grease stain/build up


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

I see. Thanks guys. To make sure we're on the same page here. If I were gonna try and smooth it, I'd have to first use a diamond blade angle grinder and rough a straight edge, then find some carbide sandpaper for my orbital sander, and a filter mask. Will the little paper ones work? And sand it down, semi smooth by hand.

If I were leaving a "rock face", well, right now, its width varies from 18" to 20", very jagged, dips in, and out the whole length. I'd asically leave it like that, just use a masonry chissel and hammer and chip away from edge to get rid of where the blast core holes were drilled and are still visible. It would be VERY rough, and varied along the edge, and I'd possibly use my sander to just dull the "sharp edge" at the polished face, so noone got cut. 

With the smooth square edge, I'd try to build it like a counter sitting on a cabinet for storage.

If I leave it like a "flagstone" looking piece, I'd probably just build a frame of "2 bys" so as when you sit the stone on top, you really don't see whats holding it up underneath it. Make sense? I'd attach with a little silicone.

The latter would be cheaper and easier, I just didn't wanna ruin these beautiful pieces of stone by doing something stupid. 

I've attached a pic of my granite hunks here.


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## Stillwerkin (Nov 24, 2008)

Rhizzlebop, I'm sorry it's "late in the game", but I would consider stopping for a week, and re-frame with the advice here, if necessary, according to local code before continuing. No sense applying good Greek solutions to Roman problems.

I'm just imagining a nightmare senario years from now when you're all ready to move, and the inspector says:"no permit pulled=$1,000 fine, insufficient footings and sill rot=condemed". 

I've talked to several Realtors who all say a porch/deck adds signifigant value to a property. 
You're definitly on the right track.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

At the risk of more comments, I'm posting a couple followup pics now that all the framing is finished. It is ROCK Solid.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Per the suggestion of some well informed builders on this forum, I have gone back and added two galvanized 16d 3 1/2" deck/patio nails to each end of every joist and to each leg and to the facia boards all the way around. It really is rock solid now.

This weekend I got the gazebo moved down into position and am now ready to top off the large deck and then on to the wrap around bench and a few columns for lights. 

I'm gonna use low voltage lighting wired by means of plugging the transformer into a switched outlet. I also ran conduit in all directions underneath to make wiring it easy. 

For the main light I'm gonna use columns, extending up from the deck surface 6 or 7 ft made by sandwiching two 2x4s between two pieces of decking(so that its hollow in the middle for wiring.

For lighting i'm gonna use the low volt lantern that stand about 2 ft tall and mount those to the top of the column.

One column will be against the house right where the step-up is and that one will also have a waterproof switch to turn the lights on and off with.

Here are a couple updated pics. I'm 100% confident this whole deck, once finished is the nicest deck in this entire neighborhood (about 1000 homes) and should add 6 to 8 thousand dollars to my value, maybe more. In this neighborhood, houses run between 120 and 140 range usually.


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## Rhizzlebop (Jan 28, 2009)

Check out these pics. In the first one, do you notice anything not quite normal. (sing that sesame street tune as you look ....one of these things is not like the other...one of these things is just not the same....) haha.

In the second pic, I'm trying to nail down a sealer/stain color. I've 99% decided I'm going with the One Time wood product, just can't decide the color. Nnatural looks bland, red cedar looks way too red. At this moment I'm leaning towards Golden Honey. 

In the second pick, the long boards have a mix of 1:1 red cedar and natural (top/both) and 2:1 natural:red cedar (bottom/both)
The small boards to the right show pure golden honey and the single board all the way to the right is natural. 

The pics were taken at about 8 pm, so the ligt was getting low.

I just think with my almond/tan vinyl house, and the creme/beige pvc gazebo, that anything red will clash.

Ignore the piece of board all the way in the lower right, its just a piece of decking with nothing on it.

Thoughts?


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## Caretaker (Jun 24, 2009)

*Ya Me Too*

I have been getting Granite scrap pieces from someone who works in the industry that would go into a dumpster otherwise. I have been thinking of a mosaic look laid over concrete. I have pieces of every size and shape. Any thoughts for this?


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