# Generate you own electricity



## mboxwell

I've been _aware_ of the product for quite a while, but there is no real information about it, or even an idea of when it will be available.

If the product can do what they claim it can do, it will be a fantastic product that could really make an improvement in carbon emissions. It will also be a useful product for off-grid use. My peak electricity usage is easily below its maximum output, despite me using an electric car, so it is the sort of product that would suit me well.


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## lucylockettx

*Disenco*

Hi

I work for Disenco. If you require any further information please feel free to email [email protected], or call on 0114 261 5180.

Kind regards,

Lucy Corlett


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## Red Squirrel

That sounds like an interesting product. I've always wondered how well a sterling engine would work to produce power. 

I'd be curious to see how this appliance looks like, as well. Sterling engine setups tend to be very big and bulky (mostly the external heat source, which from what I've seen is usually a mirror array).


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## lucylockettx

*Disenco HomePowerPlant (HPP)*

I've tried to upload a photo of our appliance, not sure if it has worked?

Our dimensions are 600x600x800.

Like I've said before, if you'd like some more information please feel free to contact me.


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## j00fek

i have been looking into this for a while. i have looked @ http://freewatt.com/ 

looks great, but prolly 30k to install


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## nap

> When will Disenco’s m-CHP unit be ready for purchase?
> The first commercialised HomePowerPlants are scheduled to be available in the Q3 2009.


Are they available now? Q3 2009 is over.

I have not read all of the website but I have yet to see what fuel this gizmo uses.

Do you have any fuel consumption per kW figures?


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## lucylockettx

The development of Disenco's HPP has been delayed, this is due to no other reason than funding has been very slow this year.

Our appliance is run on Natural Gas and LPG, other fuels have been investigated.


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## nap

dang, when it comes to financing, you haven't even released a quarterly report since your 2008 annual report. That alone sounds like so many companies that are gung-ho in the beginning and as their ideas don't pan out, they simply begin to flounder and simply eat up the investment money and then the company dies. From your annual report, I see you have had at least $10 million USD committed in fiscal 2009 plus an additional amount of at least 2 million of some form of currency. The symbol does not translate to anything I am aware of but is similar to a Euro symbol. If so, that would translate into an additional nearly $3 million USD with that same investor group with a soft commitment of an additional 9 million Euro(?) by the end of 2010.

Plus there is a 3rd investor that has made a investment goal of 9 million Euro(?) while obviously not seriously in a position to turn that into hard funds at this time.


So, your website is undependable and incomplete and full of fluff?


Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the idea that there are people and companies are working on alternate means to produce energy but so often, we see companies that come out, make a huge deal about their product and many people invest in the product at the research level.

As a means to continue to seek investment funds, we get what we see here;

a website that makes everything sound all rosy yet some of the most basic and important info is either misleading or missing.



If all I see is a pretty picture, it only keeps me interested for a limited time. After that, I need substance. Based on your FAQ's, you provide almost nothing of substance, merely innuendo.

Darn Lucy, you have not even fully answered the questions I asked here. How do you propose keeping people interested if you cannot even allude to a projected cost to operate. Such a simple and basic question yet is has simply been ignored.

Best of luck to you and your company but based on what I see, I don't expect to see your product at my local HVAC distributor anytime soon.


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## jogr

I've never seen any fueled small (house or small community sized) generator that can produce electricity cheaper or cleaner than the grid source. Matters of scale favor big facilities both for lowest cost and lowest emissions. I suspect that might be the delay.


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## Anti-wingnut

nap said:


> dang, when it comes to financing, you haven't even released a quarterly report since your 2008 annual report. That alone sounds like so many companies that are gung-ho in the beginning and as their ideas don't pan out, they simply begin to flounder and simply eat up the investment money and then the company dies. From your annual report, I see you have had at least $10 million USD committed in fiscal 2009 plus an additional amount of at least 2 million of some form of currency. The symbol does not translate to anything I am aware of but is similar to a Euro symbol. If so, that would translate into an additional nearly $3 million USD with that same investor group with a soft commitment of an additional 9 million Euro(?) by the end of 2010.
> 
> Plus there is a 3rd investor that has made a investment goal of 9 million Euro(?) while obviously not seriously in a position to turn that into hard funds at this time.
> 
> 
> So, your website is undependable and incomplete and full of fluff?
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the idea that there are people and companies are working on alternate means to produce energy but so often, we see companies that come out, make a huge deal about their product and many people invest in the product at the research level.
> 
> As a means to continue to seek investment funds, we get what we see here;
> 
> a website that makes everything sound all rosy yet some of the most basic and important info is either misleading or missing.
> 
> 
> 
> If all I see is a pretty picture, it only keeps me interested for a limited time. After that, I need substance. Based on your FAQ's, you provide almost nothing of substance, merely innuendo.
> 
> Darn Lucy, you have not even fully answered the questions I asked here. How do you propose keeping people interested if you cannot even allude to a projected cost to operate. Such a simple and basic question yet is has simply been ignored.
> 
> Best of luck to you and your company but based on what I see, I don't expect to see your product at my local HVAC distributor anytime soon.


You tell em! I'm sure this product is years away from the market


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## nap

Anti-wingnut said:


> You tell em! I'm sure this product is years away from the market


thank you for your support!!


like I said, if real, great but most have seen too many "free <whatever>" claims that are worthless and too many products that never live up to the hype.

I love to see innovation in this area but as jogr stated, it's hard to beat the grid for cost.


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## Yoyizit

lucylockettx said:


> The development of Disenco's HPP has been delayed, this is due to no other reason than funding has been very slow this year.
> 
> Our appliance is run on Natural Gas and LPG, other fuels have been investigated.


What's your MTBF?
How long is the payback period?


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## lucylockettx

Our payback times would be completly dependant on the premises that the appliance was installed in.

I am sorry but I am not able to publish our MTBF rates at this time.
If you would like to talk about the HPP in more depth, then please contact the office and we will arrange for a copy of our NDA to be sent to you.

Nap, please can you contact Alan Dale here at Disenco. I am unable to find any contact details for you. The office number is + 44 114 261 5180


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## Yoyizit

lucylockettx said:


> Our payback times would be completly dependant on the premises that the appliance was installed in.


No problem. 
What is the longest reasonable payback, the shortest, and the average?

What is the expected lifespan of the costliest assembly within your product?

How tolerant is this unit regarding ductwork variations and variations in the diligence of installers?


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## allyouneed

Nap,

You got it wrong. Check out Sedar findings for the latest reports. They just don't want to put them on their website in case it starts a stampede - OUT - like Doug Hunter.


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## nap

allyouneed said:


> Nap,
> 
> You got it wrong. Check out Sedar findings for the latest reports. They just don't want to put them on their website in case it starts a stampede - OUT - like Doug Hunter.


I am neither a financial analyst nor a business analyst but I did not see anything that looked real promising in those reports.


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## allyouneed

Nap,

The point I'm making is that the latest reports on SEDAR are enough to frighten off any investor. No money in the bank, no product, managed to survive these past years only by dilution, sky high debts and the "bold new face of energy" - the board - changes a lot. Promised investments don't happen, competitors win contracts with a value attached, but Disenco enters into memorandums of understanding with no value. The company is a dog.


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## nap

allyouneed said:


> Nap,
> 
> The point I'm making is that the latest reports on SEDAR are enough to frighten off any investor. No money in the bank, no product, managed to survive these past years only by dilution, sky high debts and the "bold new face of energy" - the board - changes a lot. Promised investments don't happen, competitors win contracts with a value attached, but Disenco enters into memorandums of understanding with no value. The company is a dog.


I agree. I was just being subtle.

Yes, the $0 listed as cash in the bank said a lot.

If you read the notices of change (or whatever they were called), there have been several high level people jumping ship. This looks a lot like what I was suggesting; basically a legal pyramid scheme and the last one out gets the shaft.


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## allyouneed

There's probably a lot of investors out there who feel they've been shafted already. I thought the dot con era was over.


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## allyouneed

Yoyizit,

Check out the blog on Disenco's web (9 June 09). It says "Disenco is delighted to be involved in the Thealby Grange Development. It is an exquisite courtyard development of three unique barns one of which houses a Disenco HomePowerPlant."

It then goes on to quote the owner, Mr. McKinley, as saying "the Disenco HomePowerPlant (HPP) in contrast to other green heat solutions represented a moderate implementation, cost combined, with an easy to understand return of investment calculation. With constant heating required for 9 months of the year means that our electricity bill will be fantastically reduced. Moderate cost, with transparent and rapid payback has made the Disenco mCHP our system of choice."

Now it seems to me that this is the first installation of Disenco's famous HPP worldwide. So I wonder if Lucy over at Disenco could upload an image of the installation to this board and inform us of the selling price to the owner for him to be able to calculate the easy return on investment.

That way you'll get answers to your questions and we won't just be looking at an artist's drawing.


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## Yoyizit

allyouneed said:


> Yoyizit,
> 
> Check out the blog on Disenco's web (9 June 09). It says "Disenco is delighted to be involved in the Thealby Grange Development. It is an exquisite courtyard development of three unique barns one of which houses a Disenco HomePowerPlant."
> 
> It then goes on to quote the owner, Mr. McKinley, as saying "the Disenco HomePowerPlant (HPP) in contrast to other green heat solutions represented a moderate implementation, cost combined, with an easy to understand return of investment calculation. With constant heating required for 9 months of the year means that our electricity bill will be fantastically reduced. Moderate cost, with transparent and rapid payback has made the Disenco mCHP our system of choice."
> 
> Now it seems to me that this is the first installation of Disenco's famous HPP worldwide. So I wonder if Lucy over at Disenco could upload an image of the installation to this board and inform us of the selling price to the owner for him to be able to calculate the easy return on investment.
> 
> That way you'll get answers to your questions and we won't just be looking at an artist's drawing.


Let them send me a sworn statement as to performance over the signature of a company principal. Even politicians are afraid of going under oath.


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## allyouneed

Yoyizit,

And that it's been installed


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## allyouneed

Nap,

Disenco's "forgotten reports" are now on their website following our exchange. Now, for their Q3 management discussion report, the bold new face of energy directors tell us - 

"Initial product is expected to be available for field trials with its utility company partners by Q3 2010, providing estimated funding requirements are met." 

That's another year gone then, at least – if they're still around

"In April 2009 the Company signed an agreement with Qwatee AG Zug of Switzerland for Qwatee to fund the company initially USD$ 5 million at CDN $0.15 per share by May 2 2009 and a further USD $5 million by May 3. To the date hereof Qwatee has not provided any funds." 

So much for the agreement. But the second tranche mentioned on Disenco's website (news release 15 May) gives the second "investment" as USD $10 million not $5 million at 25 cents per share. Now why would Disenco say one thing via SEDAR to investors and then publish a different agreement some months later? The company continues to mislead the market and should be investigated.


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## nap

allyouneed said:


> Nap,
> 
> Disenco's "forgotten reports" are now on their website following our exchange. Now, for their Q3 management discussion report, the bold new face of energy directors tell us -
> 
> "Initial product is expected to be available for field trials with its utility company partners by Q3 2010, providing estimated funding requirements are met."
> 
> That's another year gone then, at least – if they're still around
> 
> "In April 2009 the Company signed an agreement with Qwatee AG Zug of Switzerland for Qwatee to fund the company initially USD$ 5 million at CDN $0.15 per share by May 2 2009 and a further USD $5 million by May 3. To the date hereof Qwatee has not provided any funds."
> 
> So much for the agreement. But the second tranche mentioned on Disenco's website (news release 15 May) gives the second "investment" as USD $10 million not $5 million at 25 cents per share. Now why would Disenco say one thing via SEDAR to investors and then publish a different agreement some months later? The company continues to mislead the market and should be investigated.


HHmmmm, initial field trials are expected FOR field trials by Q3 of 2010 yet they have units installed somewhere or intended to be installed (which would mean they have or near to have a marketable unit as we speak) yet they have yet to perform field trials because they don't have the units yet.

sure would like to see lucy come back and explain all this conflicting info.


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## allyouneed

That's the Irish market gone then for Disenco - http://www.cerespower.com/store/files/119-BGE%20RNS%20FINAL.docx.pdf. No conflicting info at Ceres.


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## justgreenhomes

This looks similar to another new technology that I ran across a while ago: http://www.coolenergyinc.com/index.html
I'm excited about these new technologies, but, like ethanol, I'm a bit skeptical and I'm not so sure they wil live up to their claims. I sure hope that they work, but.... I'll stick to the basics for now: insulate, weatherize, low flow, solar heat, turn it off.


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## allyouneed

http://www.baxi.co.uk/1346.htm

No fluff Lucy, just factual advice. Nice


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## nap

wow! it looks like disenco is running a bit late to catch the boat.

So, I wonder what disenco has to offer that baxi doesn't.


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## allyouneed

Nap,

It seems that way. They've no product - field trials might begin in Q3 10 if they raise the money to build a handful of units - and their competitors (Baxi, Honda, Ceres) have already received orders and have started installations. So I guess they have nothing to offer and with no money in the bank and a dog of a shareprice, they're unlikely to raise the money to finish development.


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## nap

allyouneed said:


> Nap,
> 
> It seems that way. They've no product - field trials might begin in Q3 10 if they raise the money to build a handful of units - and their competitors (Baxi, Honda, Ceres) have already received orders and have started installations. So I guess they have nothing to offer and with no money in the bank and a dog of a shareprice, they're unlikely to raise the money to finish development.



Oh Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do.


just as an explanation for Lucy, if she ever decides to return: that is a line from an old television show where the husband was Cuban and spoke with a heavy accent. When his wife, Lucy, did something dumb (which was pretty much every episode), Ricky (the husband) would say, "Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do" and everybody would know that was a queue to laugh.


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## allyouneed

nap said:


> Oh Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do.
> 
> 
> just as an explanation for Lucy, if she ever decides to return: that is a line from an old television show where the husband was Cuban and spoke with a heavy accent. When his wife, Lucy, did something dumb (which was pretty much every episode), Ricky (the husband) would say, "Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do" and everybody would know that was a queue to laugh.


Nap,

I think we can assume Lucy has Gone - if they've no money in the bank, they can't meet payroll. Have you checked out the carbon calculator on their website? It's amazing bu....hit, but hat's off for the thought. The product doesn't exist, hasn't even been in field trials, but Disenco claim you can save big time by buying the appliance NOW! You'd have to have your brain checked if you invest in this dog.


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## nap

allyouneed said:


> Nap,
> 
> I think we can assume Lucy has Gone - if they've no money in the bank, they can't meet payroll. Have you checked out the carbon calculator on their website? It's amazing bu....hit, but hat's off for the thought. The product doesn't exist, hasn't even been in field trials, but Disenco claim you can save big time by buying the appliance NOW! You'd have to have your brain checked if you invest in this dog.


Oh, I know. I just figured if she ever happened to cruise by maybe she would see the Americans aren't quite as gullible as she would have liked them to be. At least not all of them.


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## robinantill

I am just looking into installing Solar Electric panels, mainly (selfishly for money reasons) but as a bonus for green reasons. It's a large investment but should make me very good in the future.


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## jogr

robinantill said:


> I am just looking into installing Solar Electric panels, mainly (selfishly for money reasons) but as a bonus for green reasons. It's a large investment but should make me very good in the future.


LOL, would the money reason be that you have too much money and need to get rid of it? 

Seriously, there are very few locations where solar PV panels have a payback period at all. They are generally done for "green" reasons recognizing that the power will cost more than grid power or they are done in remote areas requiring low power where grid power is not economically available.

If you are in it to save money then do your calculations very carefully.


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## Scuba_Dave

Solar panels at present have a 30% "rebate" from the Government
In many cases there are additional rebates from State & sellers may offer deals with today economy
In most cases you are far better off trying to reduce your power use before buying Solar
"Payback" /break even depends upon your cost for electricity
One person in New York will have a payback period of 2.5 years - he installed the system himself
He "saves" about $110 a month - old electric bill was averaged at $260 a month
Our electric prices dropped, but I will be looking into adding solar once other construction costs on the house are paid off


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## justgreenhomes

Remember the 3 to 5 rule: for every $3 you spend on energy conservation you will save about $5 on a PV system. If you want to "go solar" you should start w/ a solar air heater.


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## allyouneed

Smart decision Mandylee. Company has no product, no money to develop it, no future. A dog.


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## allyouneed

Looks like lights out time for Disenco. Shareprice at historic low of 4.5 cents (DIS.V on TSX) and dropping.


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## lucylockettx

*Disenco*

We are very much still here!

As previously stated please could Nap call Alan Dale on +44 114 261 5180.

If anyone has any serious questions and would like to talk to any member of the team please feel free to do so.


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## nap

could you explain the horrific financial status reports and the claim of fielding units and then in the same article not having actually built any units?

We have seen enough companies die lately that many of us recognize the picture of a company in the throws of death. Yours surely looks to be in serious difficulty at the least.

have you or have you not actually built any units? Have you or have you not fielded any units?


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## lucylockettx

Nap, like I have asked previously- please call the company, or if you would prefer we could call you. Alan Dale can explain to you the financial situation of the company, so that you don’t have to further speculate and I would be happy to personally explain to you the current global economic problems.

Any claim that we have not built any units is factually incorrect, our doors are always open should anyone wish to view a field trial. 

As for these field trails, our appliance was initially on trail with the Carbon Trust back in 2007 and the data was independently verified by EA Technology, based in Chester, UK.

So to answer your questions in simple terms, yes we have built appliance and yes they have been tested in the field.


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## nap

Then how about some real information on the product? There have been several questions posed on this thread and none have been answered. Since there have been field trials, there should be data available to be utilized to form an answer.

Do you have anything other than a plea to contact some other person in the company? You came here and presented your product. When asked anything about it, you failed to be able to provide any answers. 1 1/2 months ago you had not even built any units yet now you claim not only have you built units but they have been field tested.

So, how about some actual facts, specs, and results of the tests?


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## lucylockettx

Because the Disenco HomePowerPlant is a new technology and to protect this product I am limited to what information can be published on this website.

If individuals would like further information then they are required to complete a NDA. I have stated on numerous occasions that we are happy to answer questions.

The data we have is very sensitive, hence the reason why I have failed to answer some questions. On completion of a NDA more information will be readily available.

Please read the following publican that the Carbon Trust has wrote, http://www.carbontrust.co.uk/publications/publicationdetail?productid=CTC726.

Basic product information can be found on our website, www.disenco.com

You say 1 ½ months ago we had not built any units- *this is incorrect.* 

So how about you contact the company, rather than hiding on a website.


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## nap

and why would any more information be available to me if I contact you than you can present on a website. You are the one that came here touting your product like it is ready to be put in my house yet now you want me to agree to some non-disclosure agreement so you can tell me about it?




sounds like a crock of crap to me.




> You say 1 ½ months ago we had not built any units- this is incorrect.


this is from your own website:



> January 2008: Initial testing of low volume pre-production HPP engine
> April 2008: Sentec production design of electronics and power controls commences
> May 2008: Enertek commence boiler build out and burner commercialisation of the HPP
> November 2009: Low volume production engine endurance testing to commence
> *Q2 2010 (funding dependant): Initial production process to commence with assembly / production / manufacturing with sub contractors Autocraft and Malvern Boilers, producing first commercial HomePowerPlant appliances for UK and EU field trials by utilities*


so, from that statement, you only have prototypes. A prototype is not a unit intended for commercial sale hence, no units built yet. Even those units referred to are designated for field trials by utility companies. That is not a market ready unit still.


> Licensing/Distribution Agreements
> Disenco is currently in discussions with a number of potential manufacturing/production/distribution partners world-wide that would bring Disenco immediate marketing, promotion and distribution resources.


that is BS corporate talk for: we do not have a product manufacturing facility yet but we are talking to a bunch of them trying to find one.

So, either you have a marketed product or you don't. To this point it appears you do not. If I am wrong, please post a link to a copy of your sales literature for your currently marketed product(s) and a wholesaler or retailer they are available for purchase.


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## allyouneed

Lucy,

If you have a product that's not a test model, tell us where it's at. On your website blog, you mention that it's part of the Thealby Grange Development and installed. Can we see some images of the installation? If Disenco is so "delighted to be involved in the development" why don't you announce it to the world and not just restrict such important news to a company website? Couple of other things Lucy. If the company is so alive and well, why don't you update your website and take Doug Hunter off the board of directors? Like many before him, he walked. Can you also tell us who is now heading up Disenco North America after his departure? Yup, I think Nap hit it just right - BS. Disenco have been milking investors for years to fund its fairy story. It's a dog of a company with no product, no money and a shareprice that tells the real story.


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## allyouneed

Nap,

Maybe we should contact the utilities they claim to have agreements with and ask them for product data and images of installations. We can also ask why they enter agreements with Disenco with no upfront payments, yet place orders with Ceres with a few million $$$ upfront.


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## allyouneed

http://www.thealbygrangedevelopment.co.uk/details.php?id=14

Dammit, the Thealby Grange Development website is down. No way to contact the family behind the development then as the Disenco blog says. How fortunate or unfortunate depending on where you're coming from


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## Haff

I've spent enough years working at startup to come to my own opinion based on what little I can find on this product.

1. The product doesnt exist. If it did, there would be TONS of photos of systems in use, many detailed data sheets, lots of personal feedback about how much money it saved them and how they plan to name their first-born Disenco. I dont see any of that. What I see is the typical hype a startup propegates when their board demands progress. They are doing their best to stay alive
2. NDAs are useful in two cases. First: when you are still in development and need to protect your knowledge while working with somebody you HAVE to work with. or second: when the use of your product requires a level of integration that forces your customer to fully understand details that expose your company. Neither of these should apply if the product is ready. Its a power source, not a microprocessor assembly line. I just bought a generator for my house, didnt have to sign an NDA and had tons of details at my fingertips because the generator company gave it freely. i bought a furnace about 10 years ago. Same deal. 
3. The whole 'give us a call so we can explain' thing is what you do when the sales and marketing group of your copmany (which often includes senior staff) is all you have. If you dont have a product or data to support a product you tell them to call and hope your smooth talker can keep people happy. 

Lucy, the bottom line is that we WANT to be able to buy your product. We WANT it to be real. We really do. We are your future customers in the residential market. But if you lie to us, or misslead us then there is no chance we will use or evangelize your product even if you do eventually bring it to market.

Until and unless I can download a datasheet and/or order by part number your product is just fantasy. If you tell me each installation is custom... fine, but you shoudl still be able to product datasheets.


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## allyouneed

So, product update from a utility. It doesn't work. It rocks, rolls and leaks. Yeah, put it in your kitchen


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## allyouneed

*Lucy, we need you to come clean about the Qwatee News Release on Disenco's Website (May 15)*

It reads: "According to the terms of the agreement, which is subject to TSX Venture Exchange approval, Qwaee will subscribe for approximately 40,666,667 C Ordinary Shares at a price of CAD$0.15 per C Ordinary Share, for a total investment of USD$5,000,000. 

"On or before May 30, 2009, Qwatee will subscribe for an additional 40,666,667 C Ordinary Shares (subject to adjustment based on the exchange rate at closing) at a price of CAD$0.25 per C Ordinary Share, for an aggregate investment of USD$10,000,000."
*But in Your MD Analysis for the period ended September 2009, the company reports*

"In April 2009 the Company signed an agreement with Qwatee AG Zug of Switzerland for Qwatee to fund the company initially USD$ 5 million at CDN $0.15 per share by May 2 2009 and a further USD $5 million by May 30. To the date hereof Qwatee has not provided any funds."


*So, when the Q3 period ended, Qwatee were 4 months late in paying Disenco for its kitchen ready appliance. *

More than 2 months on since the Q3 report came out, have they provided the $15 milllion (adjusted)? Or, if not, is it because they since found out you're firing on empty and, likethe utilities, have only an untested prototype to hawk?


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## Scuba_Dave

This has gone beyond any type of Green Home Improvement topic into the financials of a start-up company
That is not what this site is for

When this product is in the marketplace I'd hope to see a new discussion opened about how it works
But not until then

Thanks


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