# Electricity goes on and off



## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

Have you tried replacing the outlet itself?


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks for the reply.. It's on an entire circuit, where everything on that same circuit goes off and on at the same time..


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

Has the electric in the home been modernized, ie. 2 or 3 prong outlets? Some older homes were wired so if one outlet went dead, it killed the power to the rest of the circuit.
So, if one of your outlets is going out, it's making the rest go on & off too. Have you added anything new to that circuit? I'm no electrician, just adding what little I know. Try one of these in each outlet on that circuit, they're cheap.

Or post this question in the Electric sub-forum, maybe a pro can answer.


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## clashley (Nov 24, 2009)

Ritinga said:


> Hello.. I was wondering if anyone could help me troubleshoot why my electricity on only ONE circuit that keeps going on and off on it's own.. This started a couple of days ago. The circuit breaker is not tripped although I did change it with a new one to no avail..
> The power goes on for several, several minutes.. Then shuts off sometimes for a few and sometimes for several minutes.. This is the same circuit that my fridge in on.. The house was built in the 50's.. Any ideas where I should begin would be appreciated.
> Thanks..Rita



Sounds like you have a loose connection somewhere on the branch circuit. I'd start by checking to make sure the connections at the breaker panel to ensure they are nice and tight, then working my way through each junction box (receptacle) on the circuit to make sure each connection is tight and has not failed.

If you do have a loose connection, it could not only be annoying, but potentially dangerous, if it results in an arcing condition or a glowing connection. This could result in a fire hazard which the breaker may not detect.

If you are not comfortable working on the circuit yourself, call an electrician. This is potentially serious and should be addressed ASAP (my other suggestion would be to turn off the circuit breaker until the issue can be resolved, but since you have refrigeration equipment on this circuit, I understand you don't want to shut off that circuit, so I'd get it addressed ASAP).


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks.. No nothing has been upgraded and this old house has very few 3 prong outlets. I do have one of those testers somewhere.. I guess I'll start at the closest outlet to the breaker box, I'm wondering if I should test each switch as well.. 
I new to this posting stuff.. Not sure how to post it in Electrical.. I'll go see if I can figure it out.. Thanks again..


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Got Mice?


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Cashkey, I did check the wires in the box and they were all nice and tight.. I thought about changing all the know outlets and perhaps one light switch that sometimes does not want to turn off.. Is there a way of checking each outlet with my meter or must I visually check each wire or both??? Thanks... I'm thinking of going into the attic to see if I can see anything.. It seemed to start after a little rain we just had.. Probably coincidental. 
I don't believe there is a mice issue,


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## clashley (Nov 24, 2009)

Ritinga said:


> Thanks Cashkey, I did check the wires in the box and they were all nice and tight.. I thought about changing all the know outlets and perhaps one light switch that sometimes does not want to turn off.. Is there a way of checking each outlet with my meter or must I visually check each wire or both??? Thanks... I'm thinking of going into the attic to see if I can see anything.. It seemed to start after a little rain we just had.. Probably coincidental.
> I don't believe there is a mice issue,


This type of diagnosis requires a hands-on solution. A receptacle tester will help you determine if a receptacle is correctly wired, but won't really help you detect things like loose connections.

Start by shutting off the circuit, and checking the branch circuit wires at the service panel. Make sure they are all tight (the hot wire coming into the breaker, the neutral wire attached to the neutral bus, and the ground wire on the ground bus).

Next, would start checking the connections at each receptacle, light fixture and light switch at each junction box on the circuit by physically removing each device from the junction box, inspecting the connections and making sure they are nice and tight. Replace any devices (receptacles, light switches, etc) that appear to be damaged or do not function correctly. If you need to replace receptacles, replace them with like items (do not use three-prong receptacles if the original is only two-prong; you can still find two-prong receptacles at places like HD or Lowes). You want to watch out for any terminals which appear to be corroded or charred, or have loosened.

If you have access to the attic, I would go inspect the portion of the branch circuit cable that is accessible in the attic to ensure that the cable is not damaged.

Keep in mind that if you do encounter problems in the wiring (meaning a damaged cable, instead of just a loose connection at a receptacle or light switch), you should consult an electrician to ensure that your repairs are brought up to date with current code.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Turn off the breaker and find every outlet, switch and light on it.
Map the circuit from breaker to the end.
Check every box on the circuit from the first to the last.
-Somewhere you have a loose wire.
The light that won't turn off might be related or not, but should be looked at and fixed if it's on the same troubled circuit.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Guys... All this helps, I have taken a few basic electrical courses and understand and am comfortable doing the basics. Like the drawing and Change outs..
I will start my drawing and as was mentioned, start looking from the nearest to my breaker box and so no and so on.

So EVERY connection on this circuit must be inspected.. Correct???

Is there such a thing as a self grounding plug as most all receptacles in this old home are indeed two prong with no ground, if I remember correctly and I believe about only 4 three prong outlets in the entire house which.... Come to think about it... Are ALL on the same circuit!

If it is a main wiring issue, I for sure call in the professionals.. 

Anyway, thanks again.. I'll let you know what I/we find..
Rita


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Do you have romex(cloth or plastic covered) wiring or metal covered wiring(BX)?


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

OH.. And yes Ron.. That light switch is on that same troubled circuit, and fairly close to the box. Sometimes you have to flip it up and down a few time to get the light to turn off..

Actually, today, the power seems to be remaining on a bit longer but I have hear a beep now and again, I think coming from the microwave every time the power swings..lol


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Think it,s that old cloth type wiring.
Actually the switch I just replaced was single stranded plastic..


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm pretty sure anyway, I'll let you know in a bit, but i'm sure it is all original stuff!


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Oh boy.. This looks like a whole new can of worms.. It appears as tho, there are two circuits that are going on and off at the same time.. 
Both on different breakers.. Any ideas, the breaker I changed out was not the one that the fridge is on.. 
Should I try changing out that breaker or is it maybe two wires crossing some where..yikes!!!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

The diagnosis methodology is the same, you will just need to do 2 circuits.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Sounds like a loose neutral wire. Does any event precede the outage, door slamming, someone jumping, turning on a particular light or appliance, etc... I highly doubt it is a bad breaker especcialy if it is two separate circuits. Do you have a picture of your breaker panel? Maybe we can see something going on in there.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Ron and Danpik

Dan, that is exactly what my friend (boss) said.. He said the breakers are fine. Like Ron said, we are going to have to check EVERY neutral connection on both circuits I suppose (may be a wire nut or connection that came loose?) which sounds like a fun time trying to locate it.. 
No Danpik, nothing seems to trigger it, like today, it seemed to stay on since noon, then just a few minutes ago, bamb.. It went off!!
This is so frustrating..
Jim and I carpool, and he said he will come over each day after work and we will check a few outlet, junctions at a time until we get them all and as Ron mentioned, we'll start nearest the breaker box.. What a mess, I was totally depressed yesterday!!
Anyway, thanks for the help Gentlemen, I so appreciate it!!!


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

It sounds like an entire branch, maybe two are involved. This would imply the fault is towards the front of the branch(s). Also You may have a single cable coming from your breaker panel with 2 hot wires and a shared neutral that is feeding these two circuits. A loose neutral would affect both circuits. I would bet the point where these two seperate is where the problem is.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks PoleCat, this helps a great deal. I have my friend Jim coming over in a bit to check the outlet nearest to the breaker box with a bunch of wires.. Looked like a mess to me, maybe he can find something in there.. One can only hope!!


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Still having issues.. I'm gonna get a bit aggressive tomorrow on changing outlets and switches, I'll try and check everything involved. Checked a bunch of connections around the breaker box tightened all wire nuts and found nothing loose. I'm trying to avoid the attic as the pitch on this house is low and there are a lot of tight spots up there but it's looking more and more like I will be going up there..
I wish there was an easier way..
PoleCat, I will see if the neutral is perhaps connected to some of the wires coming from the nearest outlet to the breaker box, I believe there were some hots splitting feeding other circuits.. All the wires in there looked nice and tight. Perhaps the issue is right above, in the attic where they branch.. Just guessing??? You think I should start in the attic first??


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

My inclination to suspect the neutral wire is prompted by my own experience with an over worked rats nest in a junction box. Copper gets brittle as it is bent & twisted and can snap easier. I had a tight wire nut on 5 12g wires but the home run neutral had fractured. It was hard to find because the wire was still in the nut.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Ritinga said:


> as the pitch on this house is old


 
Not sure what you mean by this. The first thing I would check is all of the neutral connections in the breaker box. (is this a breaker box or an old fuse box?) Each wire should be alone under a screw on the neutral bar (some boxes allow for double taps but I have not seen many in the last few years) If you have ground and neutral wires under one screw that should be changed. If you are not comfortable doing it yourself then you should get someone who is qualified to work on it for you. Regardless, check each of those conections and make sure they are tight. Next step is to isolate the circuits that are causing the problem. Shut off the breaker that controls the offending circuit and check each connection along the line. There will be a neutral wire at each connection point (junction box) accept for switch leg conections. Look for push-in conections on the backs of recepticles and change those to the wire under the screws. The push-in connections have a very small contact point that can arc and corrode over time causing an intermittent open circuit. Yes, you may have to go into the attic if there are junction boxes up there. my guess is that somewhere along the line there is a weak or loose connection. It could be in either the hot or neutral line. Do you know how old the wireing in the house is? Is this a breaker box or a fuse box? Was there any rewiring done recently? Were any electrical fixture changed out recently? Are lightbulbs burning out more frequently than in the past?


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Guys, Should have read Low pitched roof.. Darn iPad spell check..LOL

The wiring in the house is old single stranded plastic wrapped wire.. Many of the outlets (except the ones I have already changed) and switches look original.
The Breaker box is approx. 15 years old. No fuses. I've checked the wires and they are all tight..No new wiring or conection have been done. No changes whatsoever in quite sometime.
I'm wondering about the Rat or mice suggestion in a junction box as it will go on and off for several hours without anything triggering it to my knowledge.
I'll check ALL the outlets & switches that are directly connected to tis issue when I get home.. We are having a heatwave here in SoCa so hopefuilly the house will not be too hot..
I'll most likely head in the attic on Sat. when some one else is home and maybe go wiggle some wires, see if anything changes below..
I'm fairly comfortable doing this, just hope I can find the problem.. i hate to have to have someone come in and rewire the two branches having the issue.. 
I keep ya posted.. And thank you again so VERY much!
Thank You agin for your input.. this ALL helps


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

The issue will probably be a broken wire. When wires are stripped, an indentation is made on both sides of the wire. This crimp is now a weak point. As the wires moves, sometimes the wires snap, but stay in close proximity to the other part of the wire. This will cause the intermittant failures. The wire can be in a wire nut or on the side terminals of switches or outlets. When checking out wire nutted connections, remove the nut and check to see all the wires are intact and wrapped around one another. Another issue with wire nutted connections is that if the wrapping isn't correct, the wire nut will actually push the wire away from the others in the connection.
The rodent issue wouldn't necassarily cause this intermittant condition. More likely a dead short if the hot and neutral wires have the insulation chewed off and they come into contact with one another or the mouse.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Ron, So basically check EVERY outlet, switch (terminal) AS WELL as all involved wire nut connections.. Wire nuts were tighten but NOT physically removed and wire connections inspected.. 
Actually (this is crazy) let me see if I can explain this.. 
When i bought this house, the new box was already installed. However, it looks like they simply removed the old box, installed the new box a few feet to the left had the meter and incoming (Edison) wires going to the new box and where the old box was.. They wired nutted ALL the wires going into the house with the ones coming from the new box.
Perhaps I should start my inspection there.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> OH.. And yes Ron.. That light switch is on that same troubled circuit, and fairly close to the box. Sometimes you have to flip it up and down a few time to get the light to turn off..


This sounds like a bad switch. This should not effect the other wiring as it's simply a break in the hot line.
Outlets on the other hand are usually daisy chained in series. An issue with one outlet will effect all the electric past that issue.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> Thanks Ron, So basically check EVERY outlet, switch (terminal) AS WELL as all involved wire nut connections.. Wire nuts were tighten but NOT physically removed and wire connections inspected..
> Actually (this is crazy) let me see if I can explain this..
> When i bought this house, the new box was already installed. However, it looks like they simply removed the old box, installed the new box a few feet to the left had the meter and incoming (Edison) wires going to the new box and where the old box was.. They wired nutted ALL the wires going into the house with the ones coming from the new box.
> Perhaps I should start my inspection there.


The inspection starts in the main panel and progresses outward with every connection.
If you map out the circuit from panel to the end, it will be much easier to diagnose where the issue is. When the power goes out, you go to the first outlet/switch on the circuit to see if it has power. If it does, you go to the second outlet/switch. When you get to an outlet that doesn't work, you know the issue is in that box or on route to that box.
Currently I think you're just opening boxes, but not in the sequence they're wired in.
The sequence is the key when the power goes out and the breaker is on. General checking with the breaker off has no sequence priority.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Yeah Ron.. I started doing box by box (only two thus far) and more or less mapped the circuit out as previously suggested.. Overall, the stuff that trips does not seem to be alot considering they are tripping on two branches verses shutting off both breakers that feed both circuits (with affects quite a bit more)..


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> Yeah Ron.. I started doing box by box (only two thus far) and more or less mapped the circuit out as previously suggested.. Overall, the stuuf that trips does not seem to be alot considering they are tripping on two branches verses shutting off both breakers that feed both circuits (with affects quite a bit more)..


So the breakers on neither circuit are tripping?
What's happening is parts of each circuit lose power?
You should have at your disposal a few different testers.
You can determine what the issue is, hot or neutral, by using a certain electrical detector. It will read the hot line only.
Greenline tools makes it. It runs about $20.00. It will buzz and light up when you get near a wire with the hot leg energized. But it will not tell you if you have an open neutral. 
There's a plug in device for 3 prong outlets that can tell you that. It will read opens, reversals, no grounds, etc. 
The last one is the tester that is put on both legs and lights up. Good for the lighting circuits.


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## PoleCat (Sep 2, 2009)

When I used the term rat's nest I meant an overstuffed junction box rather than an actual rodent.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

LOL PoleCat at Rats Nest.... Sorry..Duh!!!
Ron.. No tripping breakers and yes, just PARTS of what looks like two (maybe three) Circuits lose power.
I do have the first two testers you mentioned as well as a Fluke 179 meter. Unfortunately, there are only about 3 outlets in the house with grounding or three prongs. I changed out a switch and an outlet so old I broke the cover off trying to remove it (over 50 years old I'm sure) Also, it was one of those OLD Push in connection types as Danpik mentioned. Even after loosening the screws there were three of four wires that did not want to pull out. I have replaced that outlet. I left the window A/C on last night and did not seem to lose power last night. Keeping my fingers crossed.. I am fairly new to all this and ALL your Comments help more than you know.. Thank you, THANK YOU.. Have a great weekend Gentlemen!!


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Ritinga said:


> The wiring in the house is old single stranded plastic wrapped wire.. Many of the outlets (except the ones I have already changed) and switches look original.


This wouldn't be knob & tube by chance is it? Or do you mean by single stranded...2 conductor romex? I don't recal if any 2 conductor plastic coated romex ever came without a ground. Is there ground wires present in the outlet boxes? _I ask this as my house was older type grey cloth romex with a ground wire but it also had a ground wire in them with two prong recepticles when I bought the house._ If so you can change the ungrounded outlets to grounded type and use the testers in them. Some pictures of the wiring and box would help us see what we are up against.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

No Dan, no knob & tube ( I'm pretty sure). What I maybe should have said was solid stranded. 
Anyway, could this have possibly been a one bad outlet problem??? I seem to not be having any issues
Since changing out the switch and receptical in the laundry room which was Thursday night. 
Fingers still crossed!!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> No Dan, no knob & tube ( I'm pretty sure). What I maybe should have said was solid stranded.
> Anyway, could this have possibly been a one bad outlet problem??? I seem to not be having any issues
> Since changing out the switch and receptical in the laundry room which was Thursday night.
> Fingers still crossed!!


If the outlets are daisy chained, it will cause the issue. Once one box has a unconnected or broken wire, all boxes after that one have no power.
That's why you check the outlet or switch box before the dead outlets. Knowing the wiring sequence in the circuit helps in the troubleshooting.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

The testers are made by "Greenlee" -
They make good stuff!!
(Not throwing anything down - I used to get "A"s in spelling -
not anymore!!) 

rossfingal


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Greenlee.. I knew that.. Lol


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Ron, yeah.. It was kinda a crap shoot but I did as you stated. I started from the lowest outlet ton the breaker box, moving down the branch. I mapped it out as best I could.. It's still working..
YOU GUYS ROCK!!!


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

ARRGH!!! I spoke to soon. Shortly after starting the washer, the same problem occurred. 
After changing the plug for the washer & dryer as well as the light switch (which is on different breaker) but involved with the loss of electricity issue,
Which I did on Thursday, every thing seemed back to normal until starting the washer today, the washer filled and was in agitating mode for a few minutes when the electricity on the fore mentioned branches went off.
I forgot to remove the tabs on the switch (which is a double switch on a different breaker). Nor did I remove the tabs on the outlet for the washer that has two hot & neutrals on it as the old outlet had both tabs on it. I don't know if this matters, I know it does for the double switch in operating it..
This happened about two hours ago and certain stuff is still dead.. Hope I haven't confused you too much!


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

There should be no tabs on the switch you installed. By double switch you mean a single pole switch? Should only be two terminals on it not counting any ground. Were both wires on it black or was one of them white? The recepticle for the washer sounds like it has a Line (hot) coming in and a load (feed to another recept)going out. Do not remove the tab between these. This tab is what supplies the current flow to the next recept down the line. It is kind of puzzling that two separate circuits go out at the same time. What brand of circuit box do you have? I am almost begining to think that there might be something going on in there. Going back to a question I asked earlier... do you have a certain amount of lights, appliances running when this happens? Also, where are the circuit breakers located in relation to each other in the box that control these two circuits?

Edit I re-reading your post, by double switch I think you mean two switches in one opening or a double gang switch. You have to know which wire is hot to determine weather or not the tab needs to be removed. In further thinking on this, does both separate circuits feed thru this switch each controlling separate loads? In other words does circuit a work thru one switch and circuit B work thru the other switch? If so this could be where both commons intersect and have a loose connection. When you had the switch out did you confirm that the white wires are connected tightly. Some electricians don't bother to twist the wires when before putting wire nuts on. These connections can then work loose over time causing breaks in the circuit.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I think we've arrived at a destination. That end where we realize, this requires a professional.
You should call someone in, who knows what they're doing, before someone gets hurt.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Danpik, for the quick response.. Yes, the double switch ( two switches) on one. Needs the tab pulled as this switch is, one for the laundry room and the other for the outside light.. It's ALL so weird, as everything seemed okay after changing the double switch and old recep. outlet for the washer and dryer. Prior to changing these two things would go on and off at will with no rhyme or reason.. And it's been good for a few days, now when the washer was started after a few minutes.. Bamb, the same issues on parts of what now looks like three different circuits.. I'm gonna check the new outlet to see if anything broke or came lose but I doubt it since I made sure I tighten everything.. It doesn't matter which screw the hot or neutral is positioned on, only that they are on the proper hot and neutral side, correct???
Also Dan, there were no wire nut connections at this switch or outlet, however, in what I think maybe one of the first outlet in the branch, there were several wires with like four or more wire nuts (the rats nest). I think I will look in there tomorrow, remove each wire nut and inspect the connections and replace with new wire nuts. I will also check the incoming wires that are held together with wire nuts. There are many of those where the old box use to be.. They were all tighten but not physically removed and wires inspected.. Perhaps this is why I noticed a slight change. 
If all else fails.. I think Ron is right!!


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## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

I have to say, as much as I hate to admit defeat, I would agree with Ron on this one. Call a professional. It really sounds like you have some sort of arcing going on somewhere, and it's a great way to start a fire. Just my two cents.

The fact that it seems to have started out affecting one circuit, then two, and now maybe three circuits is pretty troubling, and would start to point me back to the main breaker box. Of course, as old as your wiring is, you never know, all those "circuits" could really be just one.

I would still call someone in.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Doug and Ron.. I think you guy may be right!Doug, parts of all three circuits were affected from the get go. It was only when I started changing out some outlets that I discovered three were involved and what appears to be towards the front, whereas the switched involved seem to extend a bit further.


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## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

Ritinga, even my fairly modern house has some freakish wiring. I shut off a breaker that was causing a large halogen light to stay lit outside. The light went out, so did two outlets in the downstairs hallway, an outlet in the "breakfast nook area", and the light on the deck on the other side of the house! So sometimes it seems like it could be multiple circuits, and for some twisted reason, it's all wired back to the same breaker. The fact that your washing machine caused it again, could be a vibration issue, where like someone else said, you have a loose wire and the vibration of the washer caused the wire to move again. You just never know, and after awhile with electricity, I just feel more comfortable calling in a pro. 

Good luck, and let us know when you find out what it is! Lot of great ideas in this thread, squirrels is a def possibility too!


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Doug, I haven't checked the outlet yet in the Bathroom which is almost directly behind the one for the washer. When I get home from work today, I will unscrew the wire nuts in one outlet & check the wires & nuts as well as the ones outside. 
While getting ready for work today, the lights went off again.. 
Look's like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and hire a pro..

All these suggestions have been VERY helpful.. I can't he;p thinking it's a loose wire or wire in a wire nut as Danpik suggested..


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Ok.. I'm getting weird reading at the breaker box on every other breaker.. My fluke Multimeter is jumping all over the place could be bad batteries.. I'll get my more simpler one from work tomorrow.. The whiggie show only continuity on every other breaker (starting from the bottom breaker) and 120 on the breakers in between. I'm thinking Danpik may be right, it's coming from the breaker box???


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> Ok.. I'm getting weird reading at the breaker box on every other breaker.. My fluke Multimeter is jumping all over the place could be bad batteries.. I'll get my more simpler one from work tomorrow.. The whiggie show only continuity on every other breaker (starting from the bottom breaker) and 120 on the breakers in between. I'm thinking Danpik may be right, it's coming from the breaker box???


You have 2 hot feeds coming into the main panel. Each feed powers every other single breaker and each pair of tandem breakers. If one of the feeds is bad from the pole or loose in the panel, 1/2 the houses circuits would go completely out. The whole circuit would go out, not part of a circuit. And it would shut off more then 2 circuits.
You can call the power company and have them check the lines coming into the house to make sure you're energized properly.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Ron,

Think I will call them tomorrow.. Heck, Maybe tonight, after I take out the trash.. I noticed early on, Odd readings at the box but my friend Jim said the box was ok.. Of course, he took readings when the power was normal in the house.. 
What doesn't make sense, is (as you said) the way the power goes out on only parts of the circuits.. 
SOOooo.... If Both leads coming into the breaker box are good, the voltage on each breaker should read the same, around 110 correct??
All screws and wires in the box are nice and tight!!

I Really appreciate you reply and especially your patience...:thumbsup:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

It's been 9 days and you haven't electrocuted yourself. That's the good news. The bad news is that it's been 9 days and you're no closer to a solution.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I could be off base, but it isn't a Federal Pacific Panel is it?
http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe.aspx


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

I don't know Tinner666, I just went to see if I could find a name or stamp and saw none..
Anyway, Edison said they will be here to check their end tomorrow..

Thanks


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

tinner666 said:


> I could be off base, but it isn't a Federal Pacific Panel is it?
> http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe.aspx


My thoughts exactly, That is why I asked what brand of panel it is in an earlier post. I think Zinsco is another of the panels to look out for. There should be some sort of name on the panel label or the fronts or sides of the breaker. If the original poster could post a picture of the panel I/we could tell right away if it is the problem or not. The symptoms do point to this being the problem though especcialy if they are getting no readings on part of the panel. (main bus failing)

Edit, Added images
Federal Pacific









Zinsco


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

danpik said:


> My thoughts exactly, That is why I asked what brand of panel it is in an earlier post. I think Zinsco is another of the panels to look out for. There should be some sort of name on the panel label or the fronts or sides of the breaker. If the original poster could post a picture of the panel I/we could tell right away if it is the problem or not. The symptoms do point to this being the problem though especcialy if they are getting no readings on part of the panel. (main bus failing)


Not to play Devils Advocate, but how would this relate to *partial* circuits not working?
If the breakers(panel) are bad, the entire circuit would go off and on.


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## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> It's been 9 days and you haven't electrocuted yourself. That's the good news. The bad news is that it's been 9 days and you're no closer to a solution.


:laughing:

True though! You're poking around in the breaker box with a MM.....nice, just hope you don't slip off a contact and your finger slides somewhere where it shouldn't go...We all hate to call in the professionals at $100 an hour or so, but I bet a licensed electrician within 2 or 3 hours would tell you what's going on. How much it would cost to fix is another story, but you'll have to pay that either way.


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

dougp23 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> True though! You're poking around in the breaker box with a MM.....nice, just hope you don't slip off a contact and your finger slides somewhere where it shouldn't go...We all hate to call in the professionals at $100 an hour or so, but I bet a licensed electrician within 2 or 3 hours would tell you what's going on. How much it would cost to fix is another story, but you'll have to pay that either way.


 
It's not like I NEVER have use a MM actually have had some training and in troubleshooting. I just don't do it often enough as here at work, we have other guys who like to mess with the electrical aspects of the Job 110, 220 & 440.. I perfer not to and thus my expierence and knowledge is not where it should be. 
It's just odd that when the issue is happening, that at the breaker box, the readings on the breakers differ. We'll see what Edison has to say, then I'll hire a Professional before the house burns down.. It's not so much about the $$, I just thought perhaps I could troubleshhot and find the issue and thought I had resolved it a few days ago. I was wrong but I tried!
I'll try and post a photo of the Box itself, the breakers are SquareD tho I don't have any other info. at this time.


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## dougp23 (Sep 20, 2011)

Ritinga,

No offense intended. It's just what you're facing would be beyond my comfort level, and it's just too sporadic and weird! For some on here, they would love the challenge and probably never call in the pros.
Good luck, and when it is solved, definitely let us know!


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

No offense taken Doug.. I'm just getting so fustrated is all and sorry it showed in my post..
I guess the good thing is Edison will be checking it out this morning. I just hope they can find the issue should everything be in normal mode. Either way, I'm gonna bring home my less complicated MM and check the readings if when the issue happens again.
I'll keep you posted.. And thanks again for the reality check!!


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Ron6519 said:


> Not to play Devils Advocate, but how would this relate to *partial* circuits not working?
> If the breakers(panel) are bad, the entire circuit would go off and on.


Point taken... but, I am not sure that it has ever been confirmed that only part of the circuits are going out. The fact that he thinks that as many as three circuits are involved would have me looking into the box first for problems. Since the Op has posted now that they are Square D breakers I am less inclined to suspect the box. My only concern untill the ID of the breakers was confirmed is the problems associated with the two aformentioned panel boxes. I have had several scary incidents with them in the past and will now refuse to work on them. Anyway, short of the box having problems (still won't rule that out) I would be back to looking for a loose neutral wire.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Ron6519 said:


> Not to play Devils Advocate, but how would this relate to *partial* circuits not working?
> If the breakers(panel) are bad, the entire circuit would go off and on.


 In laymens terms, it's called 'Stray Voltage'. Sounds similar, but not the same as when the ground at our SE head was loose. 40V here, 200 here, but random intervals. The only time we could guaranty a fluctuation was when taking showers. One showered and one kept a hand on the main ready to flip it at the first scream. That was a fun month. :furious:


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

*Update*

Okay,, Southern Cal Edison was here this morning.. I had to call to find out what was done if anything, the Operator looked up the report and said that...
Connections were replaced on the Weather Head and the Mid-Band..

We'll see...


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Ritinga said:


> Okay,, Southern Cal Edison was here this morning.. I had to call to find out what was done if anything, the Operator looked up the report and said that...
> Connections were replaced on the Weather Head and the Mid-Band..
> 
> We'll see...


That fix would not explain the problems as mentioned.
That was just something unrelated that needed attention.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

Ritinga, Do you have a map of all of your curcuits? What I mean is do you know which switches/recepticle are turned off by each breaker? Don't rely on the scribbling on the breaker box door. I have seen these that are a complete mess on new houses as well as older ones. Things get changed in the wiring and don't get added to the ledgend on the box. what I do for all of my customers is to do a simple drawing that has all of the switches/recepticles on it and which breaker controls each item. It is simple to do, start by making a drawing/sketch of the floor plan of your house with marks to show where each item is located. Then, turn off one breaker at a time and go thru the whole house and check each electrical item to see which one is off. You will sometimes be surprised to find items at opposite ends of the house are on one circuit. Anyway, when you get this done, make a note of which items don't work when the problems happens again. This will at least verify if only part of the circuit is going out or the whole thing. I asked before if you could ID the location of the breakers for the circuits that you suspect are going out. EG...are they across from each other, above/below each other, every other one...etc. also, the pictures that were requested can be of some help here. sometimes seeing the quality level of the wiring or the insides of the main box can give clues to what might be wrong


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## Ritinga (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Danpik, Actually, I had NO issues last night.. I'll work on a drawing as suggested, it shouldn't be too difficult as there are few outlets in this old house. I'll also work on getting to that photo as requested. I'm starting to wonder if it was one of the hot leads coming into the main breaker but as Ron stated, this would not affect the circuits in the way that it appeared. However, I could have been wrong in the partial circuits issue but what's baffling about that is.. When I switched off a breaker, more things on that circuit were off then when the issue occured. I guess I won't really know for sure until I trace it all out like you and Ron suggested.
This ALL seemed to happen after a recent (rare) rain here in SoCa.
Anyway, I'll get that info. and phot to you soon.
Thanks again for ALL your Expert help with all this,
Rita


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