# What would you do---Honda?



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Um, argue for warranty coverage maybe?

what is Honda's warranty?

If there was problems with the rotors, it should have been covered under warranty. I know normal wear and such isn't covered but if there was a problem with the rotors, it was not normal wear and tear but a manufacturers defect.

as to the missing. Depending what it was, it might be covered under the EPA's mandatory 8 year 80k mile warranty for certain components of the emission system. You can read here:

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Your son has a three year old car and is irritated about having spent $579 bucks on it? How old is your son? Is it a manual? Does he drive it aggressively? What was his maintenance schedule? How many miles? Did he do regular oil changes? Does he use synthetic oil?

Short of replacing the car, you probably don't have a lot of options. Sorry, sounds infuriating, but what do you expect Honda to do? You're not likely to get anything out of them.


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> Your son has a three year old car and is irritated about having spent $579 bucks on it? How old is your son? Is it a manual? Does he drive it aggressively? What was his maintenance schedule? How many miles? Did he do regular oil changes? Does he use synthetic oil?
> 
> Short of replacing the car, you probably don't have a lot of options. Sorry, sounds infuriating, but what do you expect Honda to do? You're not likely to get anything out of them.


*Your son has a three year old car and is irritated about having spent $579 bucks on it?*---The car was supposed to be under the new car warranty 3/36

*Does he use synthetic oil?* ---Doesn't matter whether he uses synthetic oil.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

so, what was their justification for the charge for the engine miss?


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

Giles said:


> In 2009 my son bought a new Honda Accord--Loaded. It has now got 50K miles and at 20K he had a brake problem, cost him about $200.00 for rotors!:no: Pads were good! At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00.:furious:
> It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
> THREE repair jobs that he had to pay for--and get this----the *dealer stated Honda knew of the problems and there should have been a recall*, but charges will be refunded if Honda decides to do so!!:furious:
> To me, this is Unbelievable--looks like they are selling a name instead of a quality product Sad to say that I have a friend that has had similar problems with a new Honda Accord.
> I suggested that he contact Honda headquarters and file a complaint. What else could he do?


*dealer stated Honda knew of the problems and there should have been a recall*
*They had to "reprogram" the computor after replacing all plugs.*


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## Rehabber (Dec 29, 2005)

What was wrong with the brakes? Pedal pulsation? It's usually caused by a mechanic not using a torque wrench to tighten wheels (typical tire/quick lube procedure) Dealers will not usually repair other facilitys mistakes under warranty. As far as the misfire, it should have been covered under the emissions warranty. Return to the dealer with a copy of the repair order and request a refund.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

and it was not covered under the 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty because??? Saying they knew of the problem does not remove coverage under a warranty. Since it was less than 3/36, barring blaming the customer for the problem or an exception to the warranty due to normal use items, I'm missing the point of why it should not be covered under warranty.



and reprogramming the computer after (because?) replacing the plugs? Sounds like BS to me.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

giles, here's my 2 cents.

1. rotors had to be at least simply turned. not replaced. i have little doubt, rotors will not be covered under warranty though, as it is a high wear item, along with brake pads. but let me tell you something. Hondas do have crappy metal in rotors. i had to turn rotors on my CR-V about every 15 000 miles, until i finally got fed up with this, and replaced them with good aftermarket ones. so was my son's and my Civic ones. 
2. 2009 spark plugs are at least 100 000 miles warranty. most likely iridium NGKs. standard Japanese issue quality plugs. but they cost $7 a pop in any parts store and take 10 minutes to replace and no computer tune up is needed thereafter.
3. no, it is not normal for a Honda to burn 2 qts of oil between oil changes. maybe half a qrt every 2 000 miles or so, yes. what are your oil changes - every 5K? 
4. where was it assembled? 

maybe you have a dud. a lemon. happens. also, sounds like your son is being taken for a ride by dealership. 

either way - you prolly want to rid of it and get something else. i almost said try Ford for a change, but that would have been cruel.


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

ukrkoz said:


> giles, here's my 2 cents.
> 
> 1. rotors had to be at least simply turned. not replaced. i have little doubt, rotors will not be covered under warranty though, as it is a high wear item, along with brake pads. but let me tell you something. Hondas do have crappy metal in rotors. i had to turn rotors on my CR-V about every 15 000 miles, until i finally got fed up with this, and replaced them with good aftermarket ones. so was my son's and my Civic ones.
> 2. 2009 spark plugs are at least 100 000 miles warranty. most likely iridium NGKs. standard Japanese issue quality plugs. but they cost $7 a pop in any parts store and take 10 minutes to replace and no computer tune up is needed thereafter.
> ...


I couldn't help but laugh--- *i almost said try Ford for a change, but that would have been cruel.*---But he bought a new 2005 Ford Freestyle and his wife hated it (have no idea why).
I bought the Freestyle from him with 21K miles. It now has 80K with no repairs ever.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

good for you. I stay away from F-word like from plague. very bad memories, very bad. but some of them are keepers, that's for sure. 
personally, i got my sights on Hyundais now. they have shown very steady quality improvement through years, and pack a wallup into their cars, along with very good warranty, customer service, and more than decent price. 
i am seriously considering trading in my 07 Camry hybrid for a new Sonata.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

I have only bought GM cars. My girlfriend back in the 70s had a Toyota Corolla. It was a piece of junk. My Granddad shot down Japanese Zeros during the war, and he called them pieces of tin junk. Sorry but that is my feeling also in Japanese and Korean cars, and I like to buy American,
(I know some are made in the US) :laughing:

To the OP, sorry you had so many problems.


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## itguy08 (Jan 11, 2011)

ukrkoz said:


> either way - you prolly want to rid of it and get something else. i almost said try Ford for a change, but that would have been cruel.


The Fords of today are nowhere like the Fords of yesterday. My wife's 03 Escape has been quite reliable at 98k. My 10 Taurus has 22k and was back to the dealer less times than when I had an 04 Infiniti G35. So I'd definitely not have an issue recommending one. IMHO Honda/Toyota are WAY OVERRATED.

As far as the OP's posting - it's known that Accords have paper thin brakes. Honda really should have stepped up to the plate on that one and fixed them right. Even Infiniti did (the 03/04 G35 was notorious for brake issues to) and I got a new set of brakes from them all around at 32k.

A new car shouldn't burn any oil at 3-7,500 mile change intervals. The wife's Escape is on the 5k plan (as per the Ford dealer) and burns 0 oil at 98k. My Taurus which is on the Ford 7,500 mile plan and it too burns 0 oil at 22k. My G35 (at 94k) burned 0 oil either at the recommended 3,750 mile intervals. 

I'd raise holy Heck about the oil usage - 1-2 quarts every 3500 miles is insane.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Giles said:


> In 2009 my son bought a new Honda Accord--Loaded. It has now got 50K miles and at 20K he had a brake problem, cost him about $200.00 for rotors!:no: Pads were good! At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00.:furious:
> It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
> THREE repair jobs that he had to pay for--and get this----the dealer stated Honda knew of the problems and there should have been a recall, but charges will be refunded if Honda decides to do so!!:furious:
> To me, this is Unbelievable--looks like they are selling a name instead of a quality product Sad to say that I have a friend that has had similar problems with a new Honda Accord.
> I suggested that he contact Honda headquarters and file a complaint. What else could he do?


Unfortunately, this car is crap. There's NO WAY it should be having these kinds of problems before it had 50,000 miles.

And there is absolutely NO WAY you or your son should be footing the entire bill for all this. One of the main reasons for spending the big bucks for a new car is the WARRANTY.

Check into Lemon Laws. Also, check into whether there is some sort of class-action lawsuit going with these cars.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

Just a general statement that is commonly misunderstood about warranties. Car Salesman typically are not knowledgeable about the actual warranties on a vehicle and that is why you will always here 3/36 bumper to bumper. The problem is that if a salesman were to know the truth and shared it with a customer it would make the manufacturer look like they will not stand behind the product. Here are the typical warranties you have on a vehicle and I will state the ones for the 2009 Honda first
New Vehicle LIMITED Warranty(notice not Bumper to Bumper)- 3/36
Power train limited warranty- 5/60
Emission Warranty 
IMA Warranty
Original Battery Warranty- 3 years
Tires- Covered by tire manufacturer
Seat Belt- 15/150
Rust perforation- 5 years
Accessory Limited Warranty
Replacement Part Limited warranty- 1/12
Replacement Battery Limited warranty 100 month
Replacement Exhaust Limited warranty- as long as you own the vehicle


All of this can be found in the warranty book including this phrase
The replacement of expendable
maintenance items (such as spark
plugs, filters, wiper blades, or
brake pads/linings) unless they are
defective in material or
workmanship.


Typically anything that is designed to wear out would not be covered at all. I would recommend everyone read the warranty book... You will be surprised how many people pay for things that should be covered.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

In 2009 my son bought a new Honda Accord--Loaded. It has now got 50K miles and at 20K he had a brake problem, cost him about $200.00 for rotors!:no: Pads were good!  ride with him and look at his riding style. my nephew went through a set of rotors pretty quick because he would rest his foot on the brake pedal to be "prepared". Unfortunately this causes excessive heat on the rotor and causes them to warp. I say watch him because if you find it is the problem you can correct it before it happens again.

At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00.:furious: I would find out what was causing this... Was it something you could have pressed the warranty on?
It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
It is unfortunately common with different vehicles. the Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity. It is a pain to constantly have to top it off but in the end the thinking is the fresh engine lubricant will allow the vehicle to last longer. Check with where your oil is changed... Some will top off between oil changes for free
THREE repair jobs that he had to pay for--and get this----the dealer stated Honda knew of the problems and there should have been a recall, but charges will be refunded if Honda decides to do so!!:furious:
To me, this is Unbelievable--looks like they are selling a name instead of a quality product The blame is on us as Americans... Remember when Honda came to the US and everyone wanted the car because it was cheap and good on gas... Than they built quality and people went back... now they need to continually improve and the constant improvements will always come with other issues

Sad to say that I have a friend that has had similar problems with a new Honda Accord.
I suggested that he contact Honda headquarters and file a complaint. What else could he do? Not much you can do for those problems... Just research next time a little more.



DrHicks said:


> Unfortunately, this car is crap. There's NO WAY it should be having these kinds of problems before it had 50,000 miles.
> 
> And there is absolutely NO WAY you or your son should be footing the entire bill for all this. One of the main reasons for spending the big bucks for a new car is the WARRANTY.
> 
> Check into Lemon Laws. Also, check into whether there is some sort of class-action lawsuit going with these cars.


Everyone wants to jumo to the Lemon law and unfortunately this vehicle in NO WAY COMES CLOSE TO QUALIFYING! 
First... need to know why the rotors had problems at 20K... My guess is they said they were warped and the owner said if one was warped replace them... I would bet it was the front rotors. 
Second- Oil consumption is a design of the engine... Need to know more about the second repair to say more about it

Now where I live (Each state is different) you have 20 months or 18000 miles for any of the following to happen


A brake or steering failure that was not corrected after the first repair attempt, and that causes the vehicle to fail safety inspection; or
 

Any one problem that substantially impairs the use and market value of the vehicle that was not corrected in four repair attempts; or
 

Any number of problems that substantially impair the use and market value of the vehicle that have caused it to be out of service for a cumulative total of 30 or more days.


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## itguy08 (Jan 11, 2011)

Docwhitley said:


> At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00.:furious: I would find out what was causing this... Was it something you could have pressed the warranty on?


I don't know how at 32k *anything* engine related could not be covered under warranty. This is not 1972 where plugs and points needed to be adjusted and/or changed every 30k.




> It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
> It is unfortunately common with different vehicles. the Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity. It is a pain to constantly have to top it off but in the end the thinking is the fresh engine lubricant will allow the vehicle to last longer. Check with where your oil is changed... Some will top off between oil changes for free


That's BS, plain and simple. The only car I've had that used oil between changes was a 1986 Mustang with a beat 4-cyl that had 175k. And I think it leaked most of it out and burnt a bit. The rest I check every once in a while and go.

I have had:
2000 Explorer, had 78k or so when I sold it, 0 oil usage with 5k changes on Mobil 1.
04 G35 that had 94k when I traded it - used 0 oil at 3,750 mile change intrervals on dino oil
2010 Taurus SHO (turbo engine, high compression, 5w20, etc) - 24k now, 0 oil usage at 7,500 mile changes. 

Wife has a 2003 Escape with just under 100k that has, guess what, 0 oil usage at 5k changes.

I know the manufacturers like to say 1qt every 1,000 miles is "normal", that's an awful lot of oil. In the case of 5-7,500 oil change intervals, you would "change" the oil before you took it in for an oil change.

Unless you are beating on it or running at high RPMs there is no way you should have to add oil to a properly running engine between changes. Especially a new one.


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

*Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity*. 

Where, In The World, did you come up with that:no: Did you read this somewhere or was you an owner of a VW.
In the 80's I bought a practically new VW Rabbit. The owners manual stated that it was normal for the engine to use 1 quart of oil in 800 miles:no: and it did.
I guess the class action lawsuit against VW made them correct their blunder because after the recall to replace valveguide seals, I was using NO OIL in 5K :thumbup:miles


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

There is a reason the Accord has fallen to near-bottom-of-the-pack in midsize sedan rankings: their build quality just isn't what it used to be. I would agree that any burning of oil is not a normal occurrence, and indicates something is wrong.

Has he tried going to any OTHER dealers? One Honda dealer may be completely different from another Honda dealer. One may like to squeeze every dime out of its customers, while the other may understand the value of keeping that customer coming back, and not charge him for things that should be warrantied. That should be the first recourse. It's like getting a second opinion from the doctor.

After that, I would try to contact consumer affairs with Honda. I've never dealt (or known anyone to have dealt) with Honda's consumer affairs, but I do have a long history with Hyundai/Kia and know several people who have had great results and cooperation from their consumer affairs departments when a dealer is trying to squeeze a customer.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't know how at 32k *anything* engine related could not be covered under warranty. This is not 1972 where plugs and points needed to be adjusted and/or changed every 30k.
So lets give you a couple of things that can cause problems at those low miles
1- Not tightening the gas cap Causes an air leakage that will cause the engine light to come on
2- Changing an exhaust pipe
3- chipping it out
4- low oil

As I said we do not know what the mechanic said the problem was but I do have 2 nephews around that age and either of the above is possible with them. that is why I said we would need to know more info. If the problem was that he left his gas cap off and drove around should the dealership be held responsible?






That's BS, plain and simple. The only car I've had that used oil between changes was a 1986 Mustang with a beat 4-cyl that had 175k. And I think it leaked most of it out and burnt a bit. The rest I check every once in a while and go.

I have had:
2000 Explorer, had 78k or so when I sold it, 0 oil usage with 5k changes on Mobil 1.
04 G35 that had 94k when I traded it - used 0 oil at 3,750 mile change intrervals on dino oil
2010 Taurus SHO (turbo engine, high compression, 5w20, etc) - 24k now, 0 oil usage at 7,500 mile changes. 

Wife has a 2003 Escape with just under 100k that has, guess what, 0 oil usage at 5k changes.

I know the manufacturers like to say 1qt every 1,000 miles is "normal", that's an awful lot of oil. In the case of 5-7,500 oil change intervals, you would "change" the oil before you took it in for an oil change.

Do you change your own oil? and measure the amount in and out? Have you been trained by different manufacturers on what the engines do or dont do? If we want our engines to work better and last longer than the manufacturer had to discover how to get rid of Sludge... the only way is to have it burn off. Since you have those vehicles try testing them and see if you are using any oil... my guess is you will be surprised... also if it is not showing blue smoke it is not burning in the engine.... I will explain a little more- motor oil is designed from crude oil... it is heated at a high temp causing it to separate... top will be things like paint thinner... middle=gas and bottom motor oil. now in the motor oil section you will also have other hydro carbons that are the aromatics and solvents. If you were to re-refine the oil you would remove these from the oil and have just straight oil and that will not evaporate. Now the aromatics and solvents will evaporate at a lower temperature. So again... ALL ENGINES "BURN" OIL.. Well actually the correct thing to say is it evaporates the solvents and aromatics that are in the chemical composition of oil... spill some on your engine and you will notice it next time you drive... if it burns outside the engine... Wshy not inside?

Unless you are beating on it or running at high RPMs there is no way you should have to add oil to a properly running engine between changes. Especially a new one.

In all of my vehicles
04 Equinox
04 Ram
2010 Jeep Limited
1968 MK3000 Austin Healey replica with Chevy 350 engine 
79 xs 650 custom built chopper
2006 Harley Sportster
NONE LEAK OIL!
I do the following.... Empty the oil... Measure the amount... then measure the amount in. I have a log for each to make sure it is with in an acceptable range that has been developed by monitoring the usage over several oil changes. I am not a mechanic by trade... just in my garage but, from doing the work myself I was able to realize different things and one of them is the amount of oil a car uses.... 

ONE MORE THING- When you have someplace change your oil make sure of the level 1-2 days later... why? well the dealership needs to make money and there is only 2 ways to do it... time and material... So they put oil in and check the oil level and out you go. Now what if they did not fill your filter all the way? there is a half a qt... what if they took it just to the bottom fill line but, you like it on the top... there is another qt.... now you drive it for 4 weeks and some of the carbons have evaporated and the filter is full... and you top the oil off... WHAT IT TOOK 2 QTS!!!! sorry but in reality it was only 1/2 a qt..... so Check it after a couple of days to get an accurate reading


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

Giles said:


> *Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity*.
> 
> Where, In The World, did you come up with that:no: Did you read this somewhere or was you an owner of a VW.
> In the 80's I bought a practically new VW Rabbit. The owners manual stated that it was normal for the engine to use 1 quart of oil in 800 miles:no: and it did.
> I guess the class action lawsuit against VW made them correct their blunder because after the recall to replace valveguide seals, I was using NO OIL in 5K :thumbup:miles



No actually I got the information from doing my own maintenance and knowing about the chemical make up of oil which I explained in a post that I did when you were writing this.

with the solvents that are in the oil and the engines running at a higher temperature it will causes the solvents to evaporate (these are the engine cleaners that are in oil). Were you doing your own oil changes? I have NEVER had a car that I would get the same amount of oil out as I got in and I have been changing oil and watching it since I was 13 years old when my mom taught me. I also noticed that in the 90's the engines started to burn a little more (about 1/2 qt more).


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

polarzak said:


> I have only bought GM cars.


Me too, until I bought my first import. Never again will I own anything by GM. I'd buy a Ford without hesitation, but I'll likely never touch another GM product.



> My girlfriend back in the 70s had a Toyota Corolla. It was a piece of junk.


Weren't just about all cars from the 70s pieces of junk? Using a 1970s econobox as a marker of modern engineering and manufacturing is not an accurate comparison. 



> Sorry but that is my feeling also in Japanese and Korean cars, and I like to buy American,
> (I know some are made in the US) :laughing:


Beyond being made in the U.S., many of the "foreign" brands of cars are designed, engineered, built and sold strictly for the U.S. market by U.S. employees. You can buy a "Japanese" car designed and made by Americans, or an "American" car designed by Italians and made by Mexicans (the case of some of Chrysler's upcoming products). The whole U.S. vs. Foreign argument is so blurred that it can't even exist in a knowledgeable conversation anymore. Nobody is a Domestic or Foreign brand, they are all global conglomerates, which sometimes work together and blur the lines even more. (i.e. Pontiac Vibe was a Toyota Matrix)


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Sorry for the late post. What does Honda recommend for the spark plug replacement? If it is under the time and mileage, they are covered under warantee. If the time or mileage has exceeded the recommended service interval, they are not covered under any warantee, emissions, power train...


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

yes, and ford escape is nothing more than re-badged Mazda protege, that's why it runs so well. so were a bunch of very reliable ford vehicles - ranger, escort, and what the heck was that sports 2 door coupe..., oh yes, probe. 
have to agree with other poster. nothing was more reliable than mid 90s true japs. that's when they went greedy and started dancing with politicians, and went for "local" manufacturing and outsourcing to the 3rd world countries. there's a bunch of "japs" that never even saw Japan, and parts are from all over the world. and that's when **** starts happening. look at Hyundai - yes, again - and see what happens, when you stick to the motherland production with solid workforce. and ford is bloody turncoat. look at their European cars. nothing better to ask for. exemplary.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

47_47 said:


> Sorry for the late post. What does Honda recommend for the spark plug replacement? If it is under the time and mileage, they are covered under warantee. If the time or mileage has exceeded the recommended service interval, they are not covered under any warantee, emissions, power train...




Spark plugs are considered a wear item and in most states are limited to 12 months 12000 miles but also carry the warranty from the Spark plug manufacturer themselves


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

No, the Mazda tribute is a rebadged ford escape. The tributes 4 cyl and 3.0 v6 are ford engines and the transaxle is also ford. Ford's worst case oil consumption guideline is currently 1 qt in 1000 miles. Never actually seen one that bad. 
As to reprogramming the powertrain control module after a plug change? Entirely possible. They update dwell and burn times for the individual ignition coils (sometimes it will cause plugs ti crack). I dont do it often but once in a while... The ford diagnostic software lets you know if there's an update. Honda is similar I'm sure. 
Honda brake rotors are paper thin. We replace them on every used car we sell no matter what. 
I have a 96 and a 97 grand marquis, both use about 1/2 qt every 3k miles. The 96 has 278k and the 97 has 183k.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

At least for Ford, the spark plugs are part of the 5/60 powertrain warranty in almost every case (just for comparison).


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## itguy08 (Jan 11, 2011)

Docwhitley said:


> So lets give you a couple of things that can cause problems at those low miles
> 1- Not tightening the gas cap Causes an air leakage that will cause the engine light to come on
> 2- Changing an exhaust pipe
> 3- chipping it out
> 4- low oil


I would hope that prior to taking it in you would read the manual and try the gas cap. It's been in my last few cars. Check engine - check the gas cap. 

From the tone I doubt that they hotrodded an Accord. But stranger things have happened. 



> If the problem was that he left his gas cap off and drove around should the dealership be held responsible?


No but I would hope most would be nice about it and say "you left the gas cap off. This one's on us, any more and we'll have to charge you". That's good customer service. 


> Do you change your own oil? and measure the amount in and out? Have you been trained by different manufacturers on what the engines do or dont do?


No - far easier and cheaper (when you factor in the time) to drop it off at the dealer and for $29 (without tire rotation) they change the oil, top off the fluids and do the "inspection". For $49 (or so) they do that + rotate the tires. Not worth my time or effort to do it myself any more. And if they screw it up, it's on them, no warranty issues.

I know I check it usually a day or so after I get it back and then sometime along the road. Never down to the add line.

The rest of the stuff I'll do myself as I can- that which does not require specialized tools. But for oil changes, just check it and go, change when they say to. Has worked for me as all my cars have had near or over 100k without any hint of engine issues. Been around cars for a long while now and would probably be turning wrenches if it were not for a career in IT.



> ONE MORE THING- When you have someplace change your oil make sure of the level 1-2 days later... why? well the dealership needs to make money and there is only 2 ways to do it... time and material... So they put oil in and check the oil level and out you go. Now what if they did not fill your filter all the way? there is a half a qt... what if they took it just to the bottom fill line but, you like it on the top... there is another qt.... now you drive it for 4 weeks and some of the carbons have evaporated and the filter is full... and you top the oil off... WHAT IT TOOK 2 QTS!!!! sorry but in reality it was only 1/2 a qt..... so Check it after a couple of days to get an accurate reading


I guess we've been lucky - the dealers the wife and I use are good. No issues with this. I doubt a dealer would routinely short change their customers. Not in their best interests long term....


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## itguy08 (Jan 11, 2011)

ukrkoz said:


> yes, and ford escape is nothing more than re-badged Mazda protege, that's why it runs so well. so were a bunch of very reliable ford vehicles - ranger, escort, and what the heck was that sports 2 door coupe..., oh yes, probe.


Funny, the powertrains are Ford - Duratec 3.0 and their 2.0 (IIRC). Transmission is the CD4e or the 6F35 in the new ones. The running gear is mostly Ford as well. They have been great autos.

And I've had a couple Mustangs that were quite reliable as well.


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## Marqed97 (Mar 19, 2011)

And having worked on lots of probes over the years, I wouldn't take one for free. I'm very glad ford didn't pursue them as the 'new' mustang. They kicked the idea around. The Mazda b4000 & 3000 were just ford rangers. The only changes were fender flares, dash pad, and badges. Anyway, I changed oil on my commuter car today (99 camry 4 cyl) and it used about 1 qt in 5000 miles. All hwy, 5w30 blend (whatever's in the bulk tank at work).


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

itguy08 said:


> I would hope that prior to taking it in you would read the manual and try the gas cap. It's been in my last few cars. Check engine - check the gas cap.
> 
> From the tone I doubt that they hotrodded an Accord. But stranger things have happened.
> 
> ...


ITGUY... I agree it is unusual and I am not saying that any of those things happened.. I hear 19... New Accord.... I just needed more info...

As far as the gas cap- I was at a dealership that had 2 big issues constantly- Gas cap and the thermostat light in the new beetle. Problem was if you came in and said "My check engine light and my thermostat light are on" then it was a service appointment. I thought the same thing in Why dont they do it as a courtesy and they explained 2 things - 1- The technician had to hook up the computer to diagnose the problem 2- The mechanic was now going to wait his turn to get another customer so if it is a slow day and they have 7 mechanics that means he had to wait for every other tech to get a customer before he could get another chance to make money... I agree that they should charge a diagnostic fee anytime they need to teach a customer to read... but that is just me. 

The reason I say check the oil level the next day is that most of the oil change guys are the beginners... If they forget to just fill the oil can it could make a difference when you start the car. I know this because we had a guy at a dealership I managed that was new and did this to about 40 cars before we caught it. Every customer was notified both by phone and letter and were given a free oil change.... i still got my butt handed to me over and over for it.


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## D-rock (May 23, 2011)

It sounds like the owner went to the wrong dealer. If the brake pads were still good then there was no wear to cause the rotor out of round. The dealer should have resurfaced the rotors under factory warranty. The check engine lamp due to spark plug failure and pcm reprogramming should also have been covered. Todays spark plugs are more than $7 napa speacials, they are iroduim tipped style plugs designed to last 7years and 110,000 miles, check your maintinance book. Also the fouled out spark plug they had to replace was from a PCM program that was not up to par. The update fixes the spark plug fouling problem. Wow, i can't believe the dealer charged you for this. Call your local Honda zone rep or that 1 800 number in the owners manuel, I wouldn't be surprised if you can't get reimbiersed for those repairs.

As for the oil consumption issue, depending on how often oil changes are made and how hard the son with a new I think V6 accord drives, it may have been ridden hard. Also due to government BS, newer cars have stupid maintaince minders that monitor oil changes, they can say up to 9 or 10 thousand miles between changes, stupid!!

As for earlier posts, how can anyone start comparing older cars to todays cars?? Today's EPA and government regulations have car companies scrambling to keep up with the new guide lines, sometimes causing more problems than needed.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

D-rock said:


> It sounds like the owner went to the wrong dealer. If the brake pads were still good then there was no wear to cause the rotor out of round. The dealer should have resurfaced the rotors under factory warranty. The check engine lamp due to spark plug failure and pcm reprogramming should also have been covered. Todays spark plugs are more than $7 napa speacials, they are iroduim tipped style plugs designed to last 7years and 110,000 miles, check your maintinance book. Also the fouled out spark plug they had to replace was from a PCM program that was not up to par. The update fixes the spark plug fouling problem. Wow, i can't believe the dealer charged you for this. Call your local Honda zone rep or that 1 800 number in the owners manuel, I wouldn't be surprised if you can't get reimbiersed for those repairs.
> 
> As for the oil consumption issue, depending on how often oil changes are made and how hard the son with a new I think V6 accord drives, it may have been ridden hard. Also due to government BS, newer cars have stupid maintaince minders that monitor oil changes, they can say up to 9 or 10 thousand miles between changes, stupid!!
> 
> As for earlier posts, how can anyone start comparing older cars to todays cars?? Today's EPA and government regulations have car companies scrambling to keep up with the new guide lines, sometimes causing more problems than needed.



Sorry this thread has my interest ... The original poster never said what was wrong with the ngine so I am not sure it was a plug and PCM... OP... Can you tell us what was wrong?
As far as plugs... be careful saying that... not all vehicles are running iridium plugs... In fact my Ram came with Copper and runs like crap on anything but them.... In fact all Hemi owners will say the same thing. I wont complain... cheaper tune up for me :thumbsup:

Rotors- I would think that the driver rest his foot on the brake pedal causing excessive heat build up and warpage. I have seen this happen in less than 1000 miles. In fact I changed 2 sets of Rotors in my wifes car before she was broken of the habit. She went through 10 sets of Rotors in 9 years.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Docwhitley said:


> Rotors- I would think that the driver rest his foot on the brake pedal causing excessive heat build up and warpage. I have seen this happen in less than 1000 miles. In fact I changed 2 sets of Rotors in my wifes car before she was broken of the habit. She went through 10 sets of Rotors in 9 years.


Good golly, I hear ya on that one!

I've long since become the "go to mechanic" for my wife's entire extended family. They're mostly a bunch of professional musicians and artists.

I am dumbfounded by how often they go through brakes - and how often they have warped rotors. *It HAS TO BE the way they drive!* I have driven the same truck for 14 years. For most of those years & miles, I was pulling a tandem-axle trailer with 4-6 mowers on it. I have replaced my front brakes and rotors ONCE in all that time.


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## Giles (Jan 25, 2010)

First of all, let me say that I am a certified mechanic. For over 45 years, I have worked a three new car dealerships and had my own business for many years before retirement.
The honda started missing and the dealership stated honda knew of the problem and there should be a recall. All sparkplugs were changed and the computer was reprogrammed. 
My son is 40 years old and is a highwaypatrol man and this is not his first car. I think it would be stupid to ask him if he rides the brakes:no:
However riding the brakes would most likely wear the lineing out as well as damage rotors.
The main cause of "warped rotors" is heat with quick cooling--like water spray or water submergement.
Many rotors that are diagnosed as warped are not, they have surface hard spots or imbedded brake pad material.
I have turned many rotors that gave the characteristic shudder that were checked with a dial indicator and they were not warped.
I am in agreement with the poster that stated honda had "paper thin rotors" and that is the problem:yes:
As far as sparkplugs are concerned---they were evidently not worn out, they were fouled. I don't know of any manufacturer today that recommends plug change at 35K miles:no:
Plain and simple conclusion *Honda is not the vehicle they used to be*:thumbup:
My son and his wife now tell me they should have listened when I advised them not to buy a Honda:thumbup:
I would also like to add that I had a Chrysler Concord with 36,200 miles and paid for an extended warranty. It did exactly the same thing this Honda did--fouled all the plugs. Warranty did not cover the $247.00 charge even after I contacted Chyrsler Headquarters. 
I have not owned a Chrysler product since, and never will again.
All this ripoff with warranties is a bunch of *BS*.
Sorry for the rant


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## D-rock (May 23, 2011)

Docwhitley said:


> Sorry this thread has my interest ... The original poster never said what was wrong with the ngine so I am not sure it was a plug and PCM... OP... Can you tell us what was wrong?
> As far as plugs... be careful saying that... not all vehicles are running iridium plugs... In fact my Ram came with Copper and runs like crap on anything but them.... In fact all Hemi owners will say the same thing. I wont complain... cheaper tune up for me :thumbsup:
> 
> Rotors- I would think that the driver rest his foot on the brake pedal causing excessive heat build up and warpage. I have seen this happen in less than 1000 miles. In fact I changed 2 sets of Rotors in my wifes car before she was broken of the habit. She went through 10 sets of Rotors in 9 years.



Some where in an earlier post he said they replaced plugs and programed the PCM. I know Honda has a service bulletin for that exact issue, now maybe the repair was done before the bulletin came out, so the dealer charged him for the repairs. But the bulletin says its covered under 3yr/36000 warranty.

As for the plugs, I should have worded it different, I was refering to Honda plugs, I really don't know what all makes of new cars use. But honda uses the extended life more expensive plugs.

Regardless of why the rotors were out of round, if the pads were not worn out then it was not wear and tear issue, the dealer should have covered it under the warranty too.


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## Marty1Mc (Mar 19, 2011)

Giles said:


> First of all, let me say that I am a certified mechanic. For over 45 years, I have worked a three new car dealerships and had my own business for many years before retirement.
> The honda started missing and the dealership stated honda knew of the problem and there should be a recall. All sparkplugs were changed and the computer was reprogrammed.
> My son is 40 years old and is a highwaypatrol man and this is not his first car. I think it would be stupid to ask him if he rides the brakes:no:
> However riding the brakes would most likely wear the lineing out as well as damage rotors.
> ...


I would say that if you saw fouled plugs, then a compression test, leak down should have been the next step. Other things such as a clogged PCV should be looked at as well. That much oil usage is not what I have seen in most motors. However, some Honda's do use a bit of oil, especially Vtec's. My daughter's S2000 normal usage is a quart every 750-1000 miles.

As far as 30k change interval, on modern engines, it is more common than you would think. It comes down to the plug. Copper plugs do not last as long as platinum. I know the Chrysler 5.7L Hemi states to replace the copper plugs at 30K. If your son's motor has copper, then it wouldn't surprise me that 30k is the limit. Copper plugs are cheap ($2/ea.) and changing them is a fairly easy thing to do and will keep the performance of the motor humming. 

As far as quality, Honda is near or at the top. I wouldn't base all Honda corp quality on one car.


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