# Neighbor has cable / telephn wires illegally running across our building roof t



## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

If these cross you property and they aren't yours, simply cut them. Even if your neighbor isn't stealing service, he's crossing your property without your permission.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

md2lgyk said:


> If these cross you property and they aren't yours, simply cut them. Even if your neighbor isn't stealing service, he's crossing your property without your permission.



Before I followed that advice I would make sure there are no easements. I can't do squat with the back 15 foot of my property because everyone has an easement. If I damage a wire back there, I pay for for the repair.

Now an over the roof easement does challenge my imagination, but so do a lot of CA regulations.


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## jmon (Nov 5, 2012)

A simple call to your local cable/telephone company to alert them should solve the dispute. Let them come out and investigate. Just a suggestion.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Cut the cable.
Hook the cable end that leads to them to your camcorder.
Place the recorder pointing to them.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Usually in a commercial area, there are no real easements. Just follow where they start and see if they connect to your service. If they do, call the telephone company and Cable Company about it. Most will just blow you off. If you find a tech taking a break somewhere, give them the info and if they have some free time, they may go over and check it out.

Also bring it up to the attention of whoever actually owns the property that those buildings are sitting on.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

Just accidentally run into the wires where they are at the ground level next to the building so they disconnect. You should be easy to determine if they are legal or not by who comes to repair them. If it's a cable or telephone company then they are legal, if it's the owner of the other building they are obviously bootleg! I certainly agree that because of the method they are run it sounds like they are not legal nor are they done by the company providing the service.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Colbyt said:


> Now an over the roof easement does challenge my imagination, but so do a lot of CA regulations.


I agree about CA (born and raised there) but I can't imagine wires that cross a roof and just lay on it could have been legally installed, easment or not.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

are the two buildings separate structures? Or a single structure with separate ownership? 




> Is there any way they could be stealing from us? We don't use the telephone or cable lines as far as I know, but perhaps they are stealing it directly from the city?


If you don't have an account they aren't stealing from you. The city probably isn't in the phone/cable business. So they may be stealing from the cable company...or not if they aren't getting a signal. How long have you managed the building and when did you first notice the wires?


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## crayola110 (Aug 23, 2012)

The buildings are separate. Separate ownership. Their building and ours touch but that's how a lot of these warehouse/offices are here. I doubt this was done legally as the wires are just dangling then they go loosely into roof caps. It's almost funny. 

I talked to the owner of our building and she said she had no clue and that I should take care of it. She just suggested calling city

I've been managing it for 6 years and I just noticed new wires dangling the side of our building. Not even stapled in. They just go from the ground up our wall and across. 

I guess I'll call the cable company first. If they don't help I'll cut the wires and remove them


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

Out of my concern for the safety of my vendors that might have to get on the roof, I would call the cable company. Why am I calling? Because I've tripped several times on *their cable* that is a *safety hazard* (yes, I am a little clumsy :laughing. Hate to see someone trip on this cable and sue after they've been notified of the hazard.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. :smile:


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

If the wires are new why don't you start with the owner or manager of the other building? Ask them whats going on?


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## GrayHair (Apr 9, 2015)

craig11152 said:


> If the wires are new why don't you start with the owner or manager of the other building? Ask them whats going on?


Gee Mr. Manager/Owner, I'm sorry! I didn't know you weren't paying for that service. :vs_peace:

(Plausible deniability)


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

There is always the (slim?) possibility that the sloppy work isn't the next door neighbor stealing, rather an FNG for the cable company who didn't know any better or a disgruntled cable employee about to quit his job. Then you snip service they were paying for right in the middle of a million dollar deal that they then lose. Now you and the cable company are named in a law suit. :surprise:

When you say the buildings are separate but they touch what the heck does that mean? Touch how? What is the position of the building(s) with respect to utility lines? Maybe the run is legitimate sloppy as it is.


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## crayola110 (Aug 23, 2012)

In the city here you can literally build one building touching another.
They have separate walls separate roof, property lines are separate etc but the buildings are only separated by a centimeter gap. Sometimes the buildings are so close they share roof flashing or gutters. 

It's a dense metro area

You'll see it a lot in retail or offices on Main streets even in small towns


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

In the land of earthquakes they let people build separate structures a centimeter apart? I don't think you see stuff like that in my area. Buildings are either completely attached but separately owned or there is enough gap for a walk way at least. 
Something like this in Depot Town in Ypsilanti MI. Each of those sections is a separate building for ownership purposes but they are all connected together.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

craig11152 said:


> There is always the (slim?) possibility that the sloppy work isn't the next door neighbor stealing, rather an FNG for the cable company who didn't know any better or a disgruntled cable employee about to quit his job. Then you snip service they were paying for right in the middle of a million dollar deal that they then lose. Now you and the cable company are named in a law suit. :surprise:


That's exactly the type of problem that would be prevented just go ahead and call the cable company complaining about the hazard created by the wiring. When they come out they will either fix the problem if they caused it (doubtful) or remove it if it was wired illegally.


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## McSteve (Dec 8, 2009)

Msradell said:


> That's exactly the type of problem that would be prevented just go ahead and call the cable company complaining about the hazard created by the wiring. When they come out they will either fix the problem if they caused it (doubtful) or remove it if it was wired illegally.


If they're on the roof and you own the building, cut 'em. If they're on the roof and you don't own the building, talk to the owner about cutting 'em.

Quality of workmanship does little to determine whether it was installed by the cable company or not. Around here at least, we have Comcast. And the commercial/apartment Comcast installers around here will pretty much just throw a cable across the roof, maybe ziptie it to an existing one if there are any, and call it good. The Dish/DirectTV guys are even worse.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

A primer on 'cable laws' in California

Basically, they can't run it across your property.

As for stealing from you? Unless you are paying something for it, NO. The victim would be the cable CO

Call them. They will take care of it.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

crayola110 said:


> The buildings are separate. Separate ownership. Their building and ours touch but that's how a lot of these warehouse/offices are here. I doubt this was done legally as the wires are just dangling then they go loosely into roof caps. It's almost funny.
> 
> I talked to the owner of our building and she said she had no clue and that I should take care of it. She just suggested calling city
> 
> ...


Have you never dealt with the cable company? Have you never had them run a cable to your house and leave it laying on the grass for several months before the burying crew buries it? You are giving too much credit to unappreciated low wage workers.

All the advice to cut the wires, regardless of where it runs is possibly illegal and destruction of property or vandalism. If the buildings touch, it is likely the cable could run across your building regardless of ownership. Most commercial buildings don't have individual service boxes. They typically will run one for several buildings. Utilities can run across other buildings to reach others.

Just call the cable company and complain about how they ran their wire across your roof without proper support.


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## Tom738 (Jun 1, 2010)

ChiTownPro said:


> All the advice to cut the wires, regardless of where it runs is possibly illegal and destruction of property or vandalism. If the buildings touch, it is likely the cable could run across your building regardless of ownership. Most commercial buildings don't have individual service boxes. They typically will run one for several buildings. Utilities can run across other buildings to reach others.
> 
> Just call the cable company and complain about how they ran their wire across your roof without proper support.


A utility cannot use your property without some kind of permission. For example, an easement. 

Tell them to come take it down. If they don't send someone out to re-wire it so it is not on your property, call back and speak to a supervisor. If they still don't send someone out to re-wire it, tell them they can either send out their cable guy to re-do it or you can sue them. Noise about safety hazard, lack of permission, trespassing, and a lawsuit may all be relevant at different points in the conversation.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Tom738 said:


> A utility cannot use your property without some kind of permission. For example, an easement.
> 
> Tell them to come take it down. If they don't send someone out to re-wire it so it is not on your property, call back and speak to a supervisor. If they still don't send someone out to re-wire it, tell them they can either send out their cable guy to re-do it or you can sue them. Noise about safety hazard, lack of permission, trespassing, and a lawsuit may all be relevant at different points in the conversation.


Never said that they could. In fact, I think I said exactly that but never used the word easement. Also there could be right of ways and easements granted in the original deeds that aren't public easements, but private.

Just to highlight what I said:

_Originally Posted by ChiTownPro View Post
All the advice to cut the wires, regardless of where it runs is *POSSIBLY* illegal and destruction of property or vandalism. If the buildings touch, it is*LIKELY* the cable could run across your building regardless of ownership. Most commercial buildings don't have individual service boxes. They typically will run one for several buildings. Utilities can run across other buildings to reach others.

Just call the cable company and complain about how they ran their wire across your roof without proper support._

I said it "CAN" run across, not that they have the right to. "Can" is just the possibility not the right. I worked for 6 years in the city of Chicago and saw utilities running across hundreds, it not thousands of buildings. It can happen.


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## Tom738 (Jun 1, 2010)

ChiTownPro said:


> Never said that they could. In fact, I think I said exactly that but never used the word easement. Also there could be right of ways and easements granted in the original deeds that aren't public easements, but private.
> 
> Just to highlight what I said:
> 
> ...


Ah, forgive me, most people I know use "can" in that context to mean "are permitted to," but in the rare cases where it comes up clarify possible v. acceptable with different language. Especially in this case it reads as "are permitted to" in colloquial English because it is obviously *possible* for the cable to go anywhere. But regardless, I shall end my pedantry. (The editor in me could go on for a while...) :vs_coffee:

In any event, the solution is call the cable company and complain.


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## akjose (Jan 1, 2013)

Maybe the other company is spying on your company. Or, the other way around.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

we need some pictures of this work because.......we like pictures around here. :yes:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ChiTownPro said:


> All the advice to cut the wires, regardless of where it runs is possibly illegal and destruction of property or vandalism.


We do it all the time.
If you own the building then you are responsible for the safety and code upkeep. If the cable company comes in and runs their cable in an unsafe manner or without respecting the various building codes (like running cable down vents), then we snip without hesitation.

Lately the competition around here has gotten pretty stiff and our tenants switch their cable services back and forth between the competitive companies. After a number of years of this it's a spaghetti mess of cable runs and holes drilled all over OUR buildings. We don't hesitate to snip in order to clean it up.


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## crayola110 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yes I'm calling the telephone and cable company before I remove anything


Here's a couple pictures of how the cables are just dangling across our roof

They just go into rusty old roof caps from days of yore


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## crayola110 (Aug 23, 2012)

In the first photo I'm holding the loose telephone line which is goi over that small wall onto their rooftop from ours


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Just to be cordial, give your cable and/or telephone company a call and warn them their runs are not code compliant and you will give them 14 days to correct the situation before you remove it.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> We do it all the time.
> If you own the building then you are responsible for the safety and code upkeep. If the cable company comes in and runs their cable in an unsafe manner or without respecting the various building codes (like running cable down vents), then we snip without hesitation.
> 
> Lately the competition around here has gotten pretty stiff and our tenants switch their cable services back and forth between the competitive companies. After a number of years of this it's a spaghetti mess of cable runs and holes drilled all over OUR buildings. We don't hesitate to snip in order to clean it up.


Did you not read what I wrote? I used the word "possibly". I know you guys like to strut your stuff but please read, comprehend and then comment. I chose my words for their meaning not my enjoyment. 

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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> Just to be cordial, give your cable and/or telephone company a call and warn them their runs are not code compliant and you will give them 14 days to correct the situation before you remove it.


I like this. You're just letting the cable company know about sloppy wiring that "they" did. They'll soon figure out it wasn't them. Problem solved.

But I'm a high ranking officer in the Passive-Agressive Order. :wink2:


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Looking at the pictures with the parapet wall it reminds me of one physical structure. if you took a pee on the other side of that wall would it go on the ground or on the other roof?


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ChiTownPro said:


> Did you not read what I wrote? I used the word "possibly". I know you guys like to strut your stuff but please read, comprehend and then comment. I chose my words for their meaning not my enjoyment.


Easy there guy.... no need to get all worked up. Just advising we do it all the time without going to jail for it.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> Easy there guy.... no need to get all worked up. Just advising we do it all the time without going to jail for it.


Not worked up at all. It would take a whole lot more than that to get me going.

If you were just advising, you wouldn't have needed to quote my post. By quoting someone's post and contradicting what they say, it's not a "just" anything. It's an effort to rebut. No need to rebut as I stated it's possible.

The OP doesn't own the property nor is an expert or professional low voltage contractor. I think it's a bit reckless to suggest that it's okay to just cut wires. He doesn't know if there is an agreement or easement allowing access. If there is, it could be vandalism and or destruction of private property. That's why I suggested the best course of action and that is to contact the cable and phone companies and inform them of the issue.

If they don't respond, the next course would be to contact the property owner and inform them of the wiring and that the utility companies have been informed.

If 30 days passes with no response then I would call a low voltage electrician and have them remove the cables. I would then send an invoice to the property owner.

But I would never recommend or suggest that it was okay to just cut cables that one thinks does not belong.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ChiTownPro said:


> Not worked up at all. It would take a whole lot more than that to get me going.
> 
> If you were just advising, you wouldn't have needed to quote my post. By quoting someone's post and contradicting what they say, it's not a "just" anything. It's an effort to rebut. No need to rebut as I stated it's possible.
> 
> ...


You finished?


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> You finished?


Do I need to be Dad?


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

ChiTownPro said:


> Do I need to be Dad?


Finished now?


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> Finished now?


Are you? 

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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Nothing like a little International tension to roll in to the weekend.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

The count down is under way......


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

I can't actually recommend this, but if I was facing this, here would be one theoretical option I'd consider...

* Separate the wire by some means that looks like an accident. That is, not a clean wire cutter slice, but somehow dragging it out of connection.

* Call the police or fire department and tell them you see a line down near you and you're concerned because you don't know what it is. They will check very fast. If it was an ok thing to do, well, oh well. It'll get fixed up and you just wasted some other people's money. Which is wrong and would be lousy. But, it sounds like this is an illegal hookup. This way, no one would know you did the disconnect. (As long as you're not seen.) And no one could blame you - even though they'd probably never find out who - for calling a safety hazard in.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Scottg said:


> I can't actually recommend this, but if I was facing this, here would be one theoretical option I'd consider...
> 
> * Separate the wire by some means that looks like an accident. That is, not a clean wire cutter slice, but somehow dragging it out of connection.
> 
> * Call the police or fire department and tell them you see a line down near you and you're concerned because you don't know what it is. They will check very fast. If it was an ok thing to do, well, oh well. It'll get fixed up and you just wasted some other people's money. Which is wrong and would be lousy. But, it sounds like this is an illegal hookup. This way, no one would know you did the disconnect. (As long as you're not seen.) And no one could blame you - even though they'd probably never find out who - for calling a safety hazard in.


The Police and/or Fire Dept will charge you for waste of resources. The wire is ran across the roof, most likely because it was best way at the time, and is doing no harm.

If you cut the wires, you can be charged by the provider for vandalism and possibly end up in front of a judge.

As for an illegal hookup. Too many are throwing it out there with nothing from the OP if they even contacted the telephone & catv company.

It is on the roof, not on the ground, not hurting anything. Leave it alone and move on to better things that need to be worried about.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ChiTownPro said:


> Not worked up at all. It would take a whole lot more than that to get me going.
> 
> If you were just advising, you wouldn't have needed to quote my post. By quoting someone's post and contradicting what they say, it's not a "just" anything. It's an effort to rebut. No need to rebut as I stated it's possible.
> 
> ...


In the majority of areas, there is no such turkey as a Low Voltage Electrician. The wires for a business from the NID to the inside DeMarc point are the responsibility of the provider.

Letting them run across the roof may have been done as a temp run, until they could get back later to properly run the lines.

They are not hurting anything laying up on the roof, even though it is kind of sloppy. There are better things to worry about.

If someone removes the cables, the other business can take the neighboring business to court for loss of revenue, etc. for vandalism.

As a business, the last thing that you want to do, you never want to piss off the neighboring businesses. Otherwise you may show up to your building and find something you do not want to smell, piled up against your doors.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

gregzoll said:


> In the majority of areas, there is no such turkey as a Low Voltage Electrician. The wires for a business from the NID to the inside DeMarc point are the responsibility of the provider.
> 
> Letting them run across the roof may have been done as a temp run, until they could get back later to properly run the lines.
> 
> ...


Sure there is. Come over to contractortalk and I'll introduce you to them all over the country.

Sorry but I'm just not as intimidated by others as you seem to be. Like I said call the providers and get the scoop.

It would only be vandalism if they had the right to run them across the roof.

I also doubt that you would be saying the samething if they were running across the roof of your home. 

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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> The Police and/or Fire Dept will charge you for waste of resources.


As a volunteer firefighter, I've never heard of such a thing. Remember, you're not supposed to be seen removing it. All you've done is called to say you see something potentially unsafe.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a great idea. But it is a way to deal with it whereby you're not being the 'bad guy' by complaining about an illegal hookup. Unless you get caught. Though of course, I'd assume if you call the cable company or whomever, such tips are likely anonymous anyway. It'll just take longer to deal with when they happen to get around to it; if ever.

It might not be causing any problem at all. And yeah, you want to be a good neighbor. But personally? I wouldn't want random garbage encroaching on my areas in any case, just as a matter of principle. (Unless I've agreed to it.)


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You want to bet Scottg. Municipalities are now charging for non-emergency related calls, because it is a cash cow. This thread has ran itself out at this point. With that wire laying across the roof, it is not hurting anything. Can someone see where it is running from the ground across the roof? The answer is no.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ChiTownPro, Contractor Talk is like walking into Lowe's on contractor appreciation day and hearing who caught the bigger fish stories.

Again, not every area requires someone to be licensed for installation of Low Voltage Wiring (ie A/V). Now if it is a commercial install, those are done by a regular licensed Electrician who has the ability of knowing how to do that type of work, or a company that is able to do the wiring runs as a sub-contractor.

Yes Chicago has some pretty wild rules when it comes to building codes. That is because of the fact that too many Slum lords will hire someone standing on a corner to build a deck or do some electrical work.

Cook county and others are starting to loosen up their requirements on wiring, that people can now do their own work up to a certain amount of circuits and can also use NM.

As for that wiring on the roof. Yes it is possible that someone their ownself ran it from the box on the side of the building, up and over the roof. In reality, no one really cares that it is there, because it is not causing any harm laying across the roof like that.


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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

gregzoll said:


> ChiTownPro, Contractor Talk is like walking into Lowe's on contractor appreciation day and hearing who caught the bigger fish stories.
> 
> Again, not every area requires someone to be licensed for installation of Low Voltage Wiring (ie A/V). Now if it is a commercial install, those are done by a regular licensed Electrician who has the ability of knowing how to do that type of work, or a company that is able to do the wiring runs as a sub-contractor.
> 
> ...


Never said anything about a licensed anything. Nor am I on Chicago. But I know low volt sparkies in just about every state.

And codes are so tight because of unions, not slum lords.

Chicago isn't Cook county. The county isn't remotely as strict as the city. You'll never be able to run BX let alone NM in the city. 

And contractors on here are worse. All thinking they can be king chit here without anyone noticing and having a bunch of HO groupies fawning over them.

As for the no harm no foul, it's a trip hazard plain and simple. Not much you can defend with that. 

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## ChiTownPro (May 18, 2014)

gregzoll said:


> You want to bet Scottg. Municipalities are now charging for non-emergency related calls, because it is a cash cow. This thread has ran itself out at this point. With that wire laying across the roof, it is not hurting anything. Can someone see where it is running from the ground across the roof? The answer is no.


Not around here they don't. They will charge only if called to false alarms more than once in a short period of time.

And this thread had run out because people dint agree with you? That's pretty amusing. No wonder you don't like CT, they wouldn't take your crap. 

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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

I'd be mostly upset about someone walking around my roof with out permission. 

If it was me I would just call the cable provider and ask them about it. Not a super big issue .



I wish people would fawn over me....


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## Scottg (Nov 5, 2012)

Three items:

* I was just kind of pointing out what I'd probably do. Not really that it's necessarily right.

* While I'd agree people should pay for stupidity, it's the worst thing in the world if towns, cities, whomever start charging for 'false alarm' type calls, excepting when there's a lot of repeats. Why? Should be obvious. If you teach people there's potentially serious consequences for being wrong, they'll second guess calling. We HATE going repeatedly to the same places for automatic alarms due to cruddy systems. Especially at some schools. But we'd rather suffer these hassles than one day end up with dead kids. Of course, this is kind of getting off topic. Just saying it's really said if this is true for a single false alarm anywhere.

* Why wouldn't I just let it be? Because I'm not really certain what it is. And liability. In some ways, it's a crappy world. It's mostly great. But the lawyers? The reality is there's just this unknown thing. It would bug me. Maybe others don't care at all. If someone came to me and said, "Hey, here's what we want to do, ok?" I might very well say, "Great. I don't have a problem with this. You just need to sign this paper that indemnifies me against any damage or issues that might arise from what you're doing and we're good."

I just personally wouldn't want anything running over my property that I'm not in control of and that I'm not really sure what it is.


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

The OP could go next door where the cables come from and tell them he has to do some repairs/improvements up on the roof and those cables are in the way.

Or instead of cutting clean through, make it look like an animal gnawed through enough of the cable to send someone up there to investigate.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Tizzer said:


> The OP could go next door where the cables come from and tell them he has to do some repairs/improvements up on the roof and those cables are in the way.
> 
> Or instead of cutting clean through, make it look like an animal gnawed through enough of the cable to send someone up there to investigate.


Then you will be charged for vandalism. The wires are not hurting anything as they are.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

So many keyboard commandos....

There are some pretty specific laws in CA regarding this.

http://www.calcable.org/government-relations/state-government-affairs/california-cable-laws/

Call the cable company and tell them there is a cable on your roof. One of the issues....it's 'on' your roof.

Keep calling each day until removed.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

What ever happened as a result?


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