# Discrepency with LP instructions



## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

I'm about to install some Smartside 'Foundation series' siding on a barn. There are two sets of instrcutions online for the same product. Both are in PDF format with the LP logo, etc....

#1 instructions state the siding shall be blind nailed 3/4" from the top. 

http://www.lpcorp.com/smartside/lap/resources/


#2 instrcutions state the siding SHALL be face nailed

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/1e/1e09bf66-d59e-49b8-989b-a9d9ced10116.pdf

Yet the diagram in BOTH nstructions show each piece to be face nailed on the bottom. Makes no sense. 

Anyone have any input to this?


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

if its standard their standard lapped siding it should be face nailed, if your using the self aligning product that has the plastic flange on the back of the siding it gets blind nailed. as the self aligning tab keeps the bottom of the peice locked in to the course below


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

woodworkbykirk said:


> if its standard their standard lapped siding it should be face nailed, if your using the self aligning product that has the plastic flange on the back of the siding it gets blind nailed. as the self aligning tab keeps the bottom of the peice locked in to the course below


Well, not to argue, but why would th intructions say to only bind nail? Yes, the diagram shows face nailing though. 

I'm not aware of a plastic piece behind the siding for self aligning. I've heard of it, but thought there was just a deviation or lip made out of the osb material. 

Makes sense though. But if I was to face nail, in order to get the correct penetration, the nail would need to be more than 3"! That doesn't seem right, unless the face nail only needs to hit the piece below it and the sheathing?


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

This REALLY makes no sense. I just looked up the self aligning siding at the LP website. It's called 'Architectural series.' According to the instrcutions, they are also face nailed. Except, there are three face nails for every stud. One at the top, middle and bottom. 

I'm confused. Even the diagram shows the three face nails.

I thought this stuff was blind nailed!?


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

the product can be installed over sheathed or non-sheathed walls, thus your nail size will vary. for sheathed walls, 2.5-3" is needed.

they want you to nail into studs, not the sheathing, etc.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

concrete_joe said:


> the product can be installed over sheathed or non-sheathed walls, thus your nail size will vary. for sheathed walls, 2.5-3" is needed.
> 
> they want you to nail into studs, not the sheathing, etc.


Thanks Joe.

This is going over sheathed walls. On one of my other threads, I asked about siding nailers. I bought one specifically for this project and future projects. It was recommended - The Hitachi NV65AH. 

The only problem is the unit can only hold up to a 2 1/2" / .099 shank nail. LP requires minimum .113 shank!

Makes no sense that a nailer like this cannot handle the size needed. 

As you write, a 2.5-3 would be needed to face nail, but not nessesarily blind nail. I don't understand why all the videos out there show profesisonals blind nailing, including the LP instructions, but not only do the LP instructions show face nailing, some on here suggest face nailing. I can't believe there is that much discrepency!


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

I THINK that you are looking at two different products. The smart side that is a SINGLE course, the 76 series, (like a piece of cedar siding) is blind nailed while the stuff that is made to resemble TWO courses (the architectural) needs to be face nailed.

Ron


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

A simple call to the manufacturer would answer the question.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

ront02769 said:


> I THINK that you are looking at two different products. The smart side that is a SINGLE course, the 76 series, (like a piece of cedar siding) is blind nailed while the stuff that is made to resemble TWO courses (the architectural) needs to be face nailed.
> 
> Ron


Maybe. I've looked at several and am getting confused. 

I'm purchasing the 76 series. At least I think it's the 76 series. It's the kind in the box stores. The cheapest they have. I think LP also calls it the Foundation series or Foundation 76?

LIke I said in my earlier post, the instructions clears state: BLIND nail. But the diagram they use has all the pieces face nailed. That's where I got confused. Is it an oversight on LP? Not sure. 

But as the other poster stated, a call would most likely clarify everything...


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## concrete_joe (Oct 6, 2014)

i suspect they want one nail in the row-to-stud just above the top of piece below. usually you dont nail through two pieces, this give independence of movement. 

its all face nailed, and you need nails long enough to grab into the stud.

and yep, call them.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

UPDATE: LP Corp said all 8" siding can be blind nailed. The 12" must be face nailed as well. 

Reference the shank size, the techs say it MUST be at least a .113" shank. Maybe somebody out there has this information, but every pneumatic siding nailer I've seen won't hold a .113" shank nail.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Daugela said:


> UPDATE: LP Corp said all 8" siding can be blind nailed. The 12" must be face nailed as well.
> 
> Reference the shank size, the techs say it MUST be at least a .113" shank. Maybe somebody out there has this information, but every pneumatic siding nailer I've seen won't hold a .113" shank nail.


This Hitachi will. http://www.hitachipowertools.ca/en/Products?cat=31&pid=53&tab=spec

How much siding are you talking about? Have you considered hand nailing? It's no big deal especially for just one project. 

I never gun nail cedar lap and have done plenty of it.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

kwikfishron said:


> This Hitachi will. http://www.hitachipowertools.ca/en/Products?cat=31&pid=53&tab=spec
> 
> How much siding are you talking about? Have you considered hand nailing? It's no big deal especially for just one project.
> 
> I never gun nail cedar lap and have done plenty of it.


Yes, that one will! I have this one:

http://www.hitachipowertools.ca/en/Products?cat=31&pid=9

I would have expected their designated siding nailer would handle it, but it doesn't. Only their hybrid nailer. 

I could hand nail it. My goal was to re-side my house next year and use this siding nailer, hence why I bought it. 

What's even more interesting is when I called LP Corp they gave me the minimum size - .113 shank / .0297 head. 

I called several stores today including a large online depot that specializes in nails, etc...they said there are NO nails on the market that are 2 1/2" long, .113 / .0297 head size. They said the largest head size for that style would be about a .0280....

I think LP Corp is crazy


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

From LP's specs for the 'Foundation series' siding from the link you provided. 



> • Minimum 8d (0.113 in. shank diameter) hot dipped
> galvanized ring shank nail with a 0.270 diameter head,
> spaced a maximum of 8 in. O.C. and every 3rd fastener
> penetrating 1-1/2 in. into a stud or...
> ...


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Looking at those specs again I don't know anyone including myself that would fallow the nailing specs as written although what I'm reading doesn't surprise me.

LP paid out just under a half a billion in the 90's in a class action suit due to siding failure so it makes sense to me that they would want to be sure that the masses will void the warranty from the get go.


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

kwikfishron said:


> From LP's specs for the 'Foundation series' siding from the link you provided.


Correct. Yet when I called LP, they informed me the siding at the box store is actually their Precision series. That indicates a .0297 head!! Nobody has it! Let alone the 'smaller' head for Foundation series.

Reference warranty service, what could theoretically go wrong with the siding installation by using a common siding nail like a 2.5"x.092 x .025 (head)?

I've never installed this stuff before. As others have written, if you aren't installing per manufacture specs, warranty work is void. Again, what could go wrong for me to file a claim? The siding fall off?!

What size nail do you and others use?


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

http://www.rjleahy.com/techcenter/nails/common.htm


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

I don't think LP will admit it but you need a roofing nail to install this stuff per manufacturer, NOT a siding nail. 

A 2.5" X .120 X 3/8" head - roofing nail would be it


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Daugela said:


> What size nail do you and others use?


I don't know about the others but I stopped using LP in the late 80's so I can't help you there. 

On lap Cedar I use 7d SS ring shank siding nails (siding nails have a slightly smaller head that their same sized counterpart). I use ring shank roofing nails on Hardie.

I don't think you'll even be able to find a roofing nail to meet those specs. From the best I can tell, the smallest nail that will would be a 10d common but that's a 3" nail.

It isn't often that I disagree with a manufactures specs but using a 2-1/2" - 3" nail every 8" horizontally is just asinine imo.


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## Bradyboyy88 (Jul 1, 2020)

Daugela said:


> I don't think LP will admit it but you need a roofing nail to install this stuff per manufacturer, NOT a siding nail.
> 
> A 2.5" X .120 X 3/8" head - roofing nail would be it


so would a rn46-1 work for putting this stuff up then?


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

Bradyboyy88 said:


> so would a rn46-1 work for putting this stuff up then?


If you can find a long enough fastener.


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## Bradyboyy88 (Jul 1, 2020)

Daugela said:


> If you can find a long enough fastener.


I mean standard roofing nails go up to 1 3/4 so I would assume that would suffice?


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## Daugela (May 3, 2013)

Bradyboyy88 said:


> I mean standard roofing nails go up to 1 3/4 so I would assume that would suffice?


I'm sure it would work, but I don't think the penetration would be sufficient and LP wouldn't back it if there was an issue. Personally, I wouldn't use anything shorter than 2.125"


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