# Do I need top quality/synthetic motor oil in older car?



## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I have a buddy who has experimented with all different brands of oil, synthetic and conventional, and sends the used oil in for analysis after each changed. His conclusion after having done this for the last ten years is 'oil is oil.'

A buddy manages a shop near me and changes my oil for dirt cheap but I used the cheap WalMart brand oil when I changed it myself.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Why would you be changing the oil that often in the first place?
Should be changing it according to mileage not time.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html
Is synthetic oil a better oil, yes, a little better mileage, yes, but is it really worth paying about 3 times the price for a qt. of oil make it cost effective?
I live and travel on dusty back roads, 95% of the time I'm towing a trailer, I change oil every 8000 miles and never once had any engine issues in my last 6 trucks that get sold when they reach 200,000 miles.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I'd go with conventional petroleum oil. Any good national brand is fine. The differences between the brands is negligible for normal driving conditions.

Be sure to use the right weight, 10W-40 or whatever it is the mfg of your car specifies for your engine.

I'd take the savings from not buying synthetic oil, and put it toward a premium oil filter.

I change the oil in my 1999 SUV with 175,000, every 3,000-4,000 miles. But that's because I have about 4 cases of oil that I acquired at an auction for about 50 cents a quart that I want to use up.

If your engine consumes oil and you have to add a quart now and then, you can extend the change interval a bit, since you are adding clean oil in between changes.

But sure, every 5-6,000 is appropriate for most older cars driven under "normal" conditions..Newer cars go much longer between changes.

I don't know about an old Ford like that, but some mfgs schedule their service by miles and/or months, whichever comes first, such as "every 6 months/6,000 miles."
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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Standard oil with the correct API designation has always worked for me. But I'll pass along another bit of advice for your occasional city driving and seldom a highway trip your magazine article may not have mentioned.

It's best for the engine and oil to attain full operating temperature each time it is driven, especially in colder weather. All too often short trips don't promote that. A tell tale indication is a white/creamy viscous substance on the under side of the oil fill cap and or on the dip stick, usually both. That is an indication of moisture that wasn't driven off. So is the thermostat working as designed? Check temperature often and take it on a 5 mile turnpike speed trip once in awhile.

You may not be of an age to have heard the used car salesman sales pitch _*" this low mileage car was only driven to the grocery store and church by a little ole lady ".
*_
It was a well known fact that car should be avoided or at least proceed with caution.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

City driving and not much is hard on an engine. I like your 3-4 month interval, it's time rather than mileage. 
It is also extra important if that car doesn't always get to full operating tempature or if you have live in a climate of extremes. 

If you have the 4.6L, it's a great little engine, but it is a pricey one to rebuild or replace.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Synthetic oil 'washes' the engine. It 'cleans' it. Conventional oil doesn't as much. Yes it has detergent in it but nothing like synthetic. So if an engine has been running dino (conventional) oil for 80,000 miles and throw synthetic in there, it will wash the engine and all the crap will end up in the oil pan where the oil sump is and stop it up or restrict it. It may not in your case but it is a rule of thumb. You can go from synthetic to dino but it not a good idea to go from dino to synthetic in high mileage engines. Now if you can see the rockers through the oil fill hole and it looks kinda cruddy then I would say no to synthetic. If it look like it is brand new then it has had synthetic in it I would guess. :vs_cool:


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Oh, and I use wal-mart cheap oil in my vehicles. My hot rod I use the cheap synthetic from wal-mart.:vs_coffee:


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## Hossenfeffer (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks to all who responded. Yes, you confirmed what I already believed.....that is why I had already bought the Walmart (actually Mobile) base dino oil. (For interest, in Canadian dollars that is $20 vs $45 for the top synthetics).

Good to know I am doing the right thing....at least no harm. The Crown Vic does not burn oil in an noticeable amounts and I do know about the moisture indications.

But time than mileage is a good rule, I think for a very low use car. The oil sitting there for long periods probably doesn't stay in good shape. Even though I live in the warm part of Canada (yes, there is one) I think the condensation builds over time. And my kind of driving is the hardest use possible....the engine rarely heats up.

Great forum.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Before the advent of high dollar stainless exhaust systems, those systems went to the land fill at about the same premature time as spark plugs and hydraulic lifters when the operating temperature wasn't reached for a considerable amount of time. A faulty thermostat was sometimes the culprit.


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## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

Hossenfeffer said:


> ...And my kind of driving is the hardest use possible....the engine rarely heats up...


Since you do recognize that, why not just take a 15-minute highway drive once a week? Seems like that would do as much good for the engine as more frequent oil changes -- and cost less, and generate less waste oil.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

I agree,,going for a short road trip once a week or so "exercises" everything in the vehicle.
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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Hossenfeffer said:


> I have a 1995 Ford Crown Vic in great shape. All original. Relatively low mileage... 130,000 km 80,700 miles. Yet it gets only city driving and not much of that. Very seldom out on highway.
> 
> I am going to go back to doing my own oil changes and want to increase the frequency....to every 3 - 4 months as I read in a magazine. But do I need the very best quality oil? Will standard grade at half the price do?
> 
> Thanks for thoughtful advice.


If you're changing your oil ever 3-4 months, regardless of miles driven, using synthetic oil will be a waste of money. It's not going to hurt anything except your checkbook, but you're going to spend a lot of money for no real benefit.

With all short "city driving" going on your car, your main problem is going to be moisture in the oil. Dino versus synthetic oil will not matter in regard to moisture.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Nobody's talking about the oil filter, which IMHO is at least as important as the oil itself..

A premium filter such as K&N or Bosch really do a much better job than the old cheap single stage filters.
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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Hossenfeffer said:


> I have a 1995 Ford Crown Vic in great shape. All original. Relatively low mileage... 130,000 km 80,700 miles. Yet it gets only city driving and not much of that. Very seldom out on highway.
> 
> I am going to go back to doing my own oil changes and want to increase the frequency....to every 3 - 4 months as I read in a magazine. But do I need the very best quality oil? Will standard grade at half the price do?
> 
> Thanks for thoughtful advice.


"Standard grade " means nothing. Also, price usually does not reflect quality. 
You can do with dino oil, get the highest rating by the API, which I believe now is SN. It is a specification which the API engineers have determined is adequate for a 'good" oil. Synth is usually better if you dont want to change oil every 6 months. You can go a year, usually. It holds up better to heat/friction/shearing. 
But Ive used dino for decades on my 87 sunbird, with about 200,000 miles on it- no engine damage so far.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Brainbucket said:


> Oh, and I use wal-mart cheap oil in my vehicles. My hot rod I use the cheap synthetic from wal-mart.:vs_coffee:


Good point- I use wal mart brand, with the API specification. Go by specs, not Brand marketing hype.


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## paint77 (Oct 11, 2016)

papereater said:


> "Standard grade " means nothing. Also, price usually does not reflect quality.
> You can do with dino oil, get the highest rating by the API, which I believe now is SN. It is a specification which the API engineers have determined is adequate for a 'good" oil. Synth is usually better if you dont want to change oil every 6 months. You can go a year, usually. It holds up better to heat/friction/shearing.
> But Ive used dino for decades on my 87 sunbird, with about 200,000 miles on it- no engine damage so far.


good job on the Sunbird. My old Ford Escort had 300,000 highway miles on it. i used Dino oil but added one quart of Mobil 1 every time i changed oil. The engine was still strong after all those miles but the body was shot.


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## 1995droptopz (Sep 14, 2010)

I have done some pretty extensive research on synthetics over my years in the automobile engineering field. The biggest benefit to synthetic is that its additives do not break down nearly as fast as conventional. This helps if you want to extend your service intervals.

My old supervisor had a 6.0 Ford and ran a high quality synthetic. He would change filters every 5-10k and sample the oil at that point. It was not until past 25k where the oil was showing signs of deterioration.

But short of that, if you use OEM specified oil and change at OEM specified intervals, you should be fine. on an older car, conventional oil will last the 3-4 months you are expecting.


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

Don't know if I'm right about this, but my preference is the simple one:
follow the manufacturers recommendations for oil/filter type and 
replacement schedule. 
YMMV -)


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## KHouse75 (May 14, 2008)

I've replaced valve cover gaskets on engines with 150,000 miles running regular oil changed every 3000 miles and the valve areas on the cylinder heads had a 1/2 in coating of tar consistency oil. I've replace valve cover gaskets on a different engine of the same make/model/size that ran Mobil 1 fully synthetic changed every 6,000 miles and they were completely clean inside.

I've watched youtube videos regarding timing chain issues with the same engine I have in one of my cars and all were a gummed up mess. I replaced the valve seals in mine because they were cracked and it was smoking. Had 250,000 miles on it and it was completely clean in side. I only run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles.

Synthetic oils are much better than conventional oil if you ask me.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have a smaller sample set but agree with Khouse. Working on various of my cars over the years with dino oil there is usually a lot of crud in there. Then when doing a cam swap on the first vehilce I had run exclusively on synth, at about 85000 miles, I was almost shocked how clean everything was.

As for the time vs mileage, surely time matters somewhat as volatiles come off and maybe some other chemical changes. Like current GM and probably others have an algorithm that calculates oil life based on driving conditions and time, and expires at 1 year no matter what. That is probably conservative but if you have one of these newer cars best to keep up with that to stay within warranty. Almost breaks my heart to dump 10 qts of Mobil 1 out of my Vette with only ~3000 miles per year but so be it.

As Brain says WalMart is the best place to get oil. The house brand is fine and right now until Oct 31 and usually a couple times a year Mobil 1 has online rebates for $12 a jug and $5 a filter... 2 each per customer. Makes it all like half price. I usually stock up during those offers.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

papereater said:


> Good point- I use wal mart brand, with the API specification. Go by specs, not Brand marketing hype.


Many moons ago I worked for Texaco (now Chevron), back in the days when gas stations sold gas, oil, tires and batteries, etc, not 64 oz squishees, beer and nachos. :biggrin2:

Back then Walmart sold Texaco brand oil (Havoline) at retail for less than a Texaco gas station dealer could buy it at wholesale. Dealers were always b*tching about that.

Walmart doesn't have it own oil refineries, they buy it from various "name brand" refiners such as Exxon, Conoco, Chevron, etc, who just pour the stuff into Walmart (SuperTech) bottles instead of their own bottles. There are minor technical differences in the particular additives such as detergents that get added to the oil base stock, but for the average motorist out there, the differences are negligible. 

If you're racing stock cars at 180 mph, or if you tool around town in a Rolls Royce, sure you want the ultra premium top-end lubricant, but for everybody else, SuperTech is fine. Just match the specs on the bottle to the specs from your car manufacturer.

Same with gasoline. The base gas stock is produced at Exxon, Conoco, Chevron, etc, refineries, and there are just minor technical differences in the specific additives, nothing an average motorist filling up at Sam's Club would ever notice or worry about.

And again, as I posted above, the oil filter performance and specifications are just as important as the oil itself.

As always, just my 7 cents.
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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Just my opinion....
I used to do oil changes faithfully every 3,000 miles.

Now I do them every 30,000 miles.

Of course we drive our vehicles normal and not like a bat out of hell.

We normally get rid of our vehicles around 300,000 miles.

Got a 2003 1500 HD crew cab Chevy Silverado with quad steer nearing 300,000, 
But I think we are gong to keep it do to it's ability.

We drive about 62 miles a day during work week.
We take some good vacations, maybe the key is to just drive it.


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## lstevens (Sep 25, 2017)

joecaption said:


> Is synthetic oil a better oil, yes, a little better mileage, yes, but is it really worth paying about 3 times the price for a qt. of oil make it cost effective?


Why are you paying 3 times the price? I buy Castrol GTX Full-Synthetic High Mileage for my rigs and get the oil and filter for an average of $28. 

This is only about $8 above what regular oil runs, and only $5 more than what High Mileage oil normally runs.

I run High Mileage because it stopped a leak in my '01 Durango at 180k and the thing has never leaked a drop since (208k now).


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

This isn't commercial spam or anything, just a "public service heads up."

AutoZone has a great deal on Penzoil synthetic oil right now. $17.99 for 5 quarts, plus an STP oil filter. Price is net after a $20 rebate.

http://www.autozone.com/landing/pag...il&cid=20171019_NewDeals_Ecomm&RRID=692086482
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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up Z! I haven't asked but my stepson should be about due for an oil change so I'll head down to AZ and be ready for him.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

ZZZZZ said:


> Nobody's talking about the oil filter, which IMHO is at least as important as the oil itself..
> 
> A premium filter such as K&N or Bosch really do a much better job than the old cheap single stage filters.
> .
> .


Dont forget the unsung leader in filters- WIX. They private label other brands as well.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

Walmart fully synth, API rating of SN (I believe, the current, highest rating). Anything else is branding, and wasting $$.


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