# Build a jeep up... or buy Rubicon?



## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm looking at new vehicles and I think I have settled on the idea of a jeep (4 door)

No matter what jeep I get I'll be doing some mods anyway... lift kit, 33" wheels, bumpers, winch... etc.

The one thing that is really important to me though is locking front and rear diffs (it makes the difference between a real 4x4 and a fake one), which comes standard with the rubicon... it's a lot of extra bucks though.

Thought it might be cheaper (and probably more fun) just to buy the basic jeep sport and build up from there. I can install after market dif locks for about $2000... and there are some advantages with aftermarket. The rubicon only allows you to lock diffs in 4 low while aftermarket locks you can lock anytime

I guess what I'm asking is whether the rubicon is worth the extra bucks?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Does the Rubicon have front locking diffs?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

This episode indicated the front diff was not locking. 

Maybe they have added it. 

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php...id/28559072/entry_id/0_0zhp948a/embed/dynamic


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## Nobr8ks (Sep 30, 2015)

Difficult question without knowing more information about you, your budget, daily use... concerned about resale?

My 2006 TJ Unlimited I built up myself- Steering, control arms, suspension, gearing, lockers. Resale & comfort wasn't a concern, nor inflecting damage.

Selectable lockers wasn't a worry for me since I don't live in snow country. Only thing I don't have that Rubicons do (Besides selectable locker) are front Dana 44. (Easy enough to fix if needed)


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Nobr8ks said:


> Difficult question without knowing more information about you, your budget, daily use... concerned about resale?
> 
> My 2006 TJ Unlimited I built up myself- Steering, control arms, suspension, gearing, lockers. Resale & comfort wasn't a concern, nor inflecting damage.
> 
> Selectable lockers wasn't a worry for me since I don't live in snow country. Only thing I don't have that Rubicons do (Besides selectable locker) are front Dana 44. (Easy enough to fix if needed)


Not concerned about resale at all. Not concerned about voiding warranties due to mods. I'll spend up to 55 or so if I have to but I would rather not.

I'm not even sure if dana44 is important. I'm not doing heavy rock crawling. Steep snow covered (unplowed) hills/roads and muddy trails is my main concern. The rubicon can select to lock rear only or both front and rear but it can only do this in 4 low. I'm not sure I like that.

I thought of the Sahara but it's not that much cheaper than the rubicon and when you figure I'll have to install after market locks anyway....


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

I bought a stock 2005 and did exactly what your talking about. It was garage kept and had 70,000 miles on it and clean as could be. I put a lift kit on it. Keep
In mind that if you put bigger tires that you will also have to regear. That was about another $2200 over the locker. I put an Aussie locker in the front of mine. That suited me perfect but there's no snow here so I don't think that would
Work for you. Luckily I had the Dana 44 rear end already. I could not sell it for what I have in it but that was never my intention anyway. I'll put up a few pictures and answer any questions that I can







this is when it was stock and my daughter was trying to talk me out of it lol


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

This is how she sits now. It floats cross the mud lol. It's pretty light, fun vehicle to drive


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I love the cat chilling on the hood. Fantastic.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

For what you are using the jeep for, a JKU WW is better suited for snow conditions IMO. That's on road snow, not deep trail snow. 


Take a read:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/wllys-or-rubicon-1988058.html?highlight=rubicon+willys

There are a bunch of discussions on that forum about buying a stock Sport and building it vs buying a Ruby. Take a read and pick a package that bests suits you.

I am in snow county and love the WW.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

BayouRunner said:


> This is how she sits now. It floats cross the mud lol. It's pretty light, fun vehicle to drive
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a nice machine!

I did a bit of study on the wheels. They say I can go up to a 33 inch wheel without having to regear so I'll probably leave it at 33 and do a 2 to 3 inch lift. I'd like it to be as much 'off-roadish' as possible without losing too much in the way of street driving ability and comfort. If we have to get out a ladder every time we need to get into it, the wife will kill me.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

I was worried about the lift too and the stability. I put an ol man emu lift on it. It rides better than stock now. A little extra but worth it in the long run. Added a transmission cooler for towing boat and four wheeler. It was a dog before it was regeared. Good luck with your project!


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## Nobr8ks (Sep 30, 2015)

some old photos @ various times of use.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Windows on Wash said:


> I love the cat chilling on the hood. Fantastic.




That cat just showed up one day. He has become part of the family. He opens the back door to let himself in. Wish I could get him to close it lol


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## Nobr8ks (Sep 30, 2015)

> Not concerned about resale at all. Not concerned about voiding warranties due to mods. I'll spend up to 55 or so if I have to but I would rather not.
> 
> I'm not even sure if dana44 is important. I'm not doing heavy rock crawling. Steep snow covered (unplowed) hills/roads and muddy trails is my main concern. The rubicon can select to lock rear only or both front and rear but it can only do this in 4 low. I'm not sure I like that.
> 
> I thought of the Sahara but it's not that much cheaper than the rubicon and when you figure I'll have to install after market locks anyway....


There are other vehicles out there that can handle unplowed snowy/muddy trails with various locking solutions. LR3/4, 4Runner, even an older LR Discovery- They require fewer component upgrades. Unlike Jeep where some parts require welding.

I have an 06 LR3 with over 130k miles thats seen those exact conditions you described, never needed a locker. I did remove the air suspension in favor of coils though. Used, you'll find them around 10k and under. 

You also need to be completely aware of the inevitability of trail damage, so if you like clean & shiny things, look for something used.

I love my Jeep, but thank God I don't daily drive it....


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

BayouRunner said:


> That cat just showed up one day. He has become part of the family. He opens the back door to let himself in. Wish I could get him to close it lol


That is too funny. We have a guy that is bit like that (i.e. in terms of free spirited). 

They are quite a mixed bag from time to time.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

I used to love landrover back when they looked more like this:









The newer ones just don't appeal to me. Kind of expensive too I'm not really interested in getting back into car payments.

The 4 runner is nice. The jeep appeals to me most though because you can strip the doors and roof off it in the Summer. There is also no end to after market parts for the jeep. As for driving all over... I'm retiring in the next 2 years and need something for some serious Winter driving. Plan on spending a lot more time at the cottage in the Winter and they don't plow the roads all the way in.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Got to love going naked


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## Nobr8ks (Sep 30, 2015)

Given your stage in life....

Stock Rubi would be perfect, snow tires for winter driving. Concern I'd have (For you..), with a non Rubi, after market selectable lockers, finding someone knowledgeable, not only for installing but maintenance too.


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## Nobr8ks (Sep 30, 2015)

ZTMAN said:


> Got to love going naked



Not @ his age...he'll freeze whats left!

:smile:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Nobr8ks said:


> Given your stage in life....
> 
> Stock Rubi would be perfect, snow tires for winter driving. Concern I'd have (For you..), with a non Rubi, after market selectable lockers, finding someone knowledgeable, not only for installing but maintenance too.


That's not a problem. I do all my own work.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Nobr8ks said:


> Not @ his age...he'll freeze whats left!
> 
> :smile:


I'm only 56!


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

I just sold my 2004 TJ rubicon last year that I hadn't since new. Didn't really need the rubicon package as I never took it off road, (pause to hear the laughter). It was more like a summer ride to replace my Harley. When you look at how much stuff is in the rubicon package and price it all out as if you bought it aftermarket, it's not a bad deal. Besides the Dana 44's front and rear, and the lockers, the u-joints, driveshafts, and the like were all heavy duty items. When I bought it, the brochure claimed that it was the heaviest duty Jeep they had ever offered. The diff locks only working in low range shouldn't be an issue. If it's that bad out that you have to engage them, you're probably not going that fast anyway. Resale with a rubicon makes a difference too. When I did put it up for sale, using Craig's list, it sold in less than a week for what I asked for it. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Well, we decided on a rubicon. They didn't have one in the city that I liked so we built/ordered one from the factory. The only downer is an 8 to 12 week wait time for the build. That's a little long!

Question though... can you mount a winch on the factory bumper or do I need a custom bumper?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

For the money, the Rubicon is the best value out there....

D44's front and rear...electric locking diff's. 4:1 Transfer case.

If you a jeep and make all those mods? It will cost you more.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

firehawkmph said:


> I just sold my 2004 TJ rubicon last year that I hadn't since new. Didn't really need the rubicon package as I never took it off road, (pause to hear the laughter). It was more like a summer ride to replace my Harley. When you look at how much stuff is in the rubicon package and price it all out as if you bought it aftermarket, it's not a bad deal. Besides the Dana 44's front and rear, and the lockers, the u-joints, driveshafts, and the like were all heavy duty items. When I bought it, the brochure claimed that it was the heaviest duty Jeep they had ever offered. *The diff locks only working in low range shouldn't be an issue.* If it's that bad out that you have to engage them, you're probably not going that fast anyway. Resale with a rubicon makes a difference too. When I did put it up for sale, using Craig's list, it sold in less than a week for what I asked for it.
> Mike Hawkins


Apparently you can change that with the Superchips Flashcal F5. It allows you to change some of the programming an the locking diffs in high or low is one of those options.










https://www.extremeterrain.com/superchips-flashcal-f5-1216-3571.html


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## jazzop89 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bob Sanders said:


> I used to love landrover back when they looked more like this:


If you are willing to spend $55k on a customized 4x4, perhaps you should look at Series Land Rovers or Defenders bit more closely. With the proper upgrades, a Rover will pay for itself in extraction fees from stuck Jeep owners. If you have some sort of loyalty to US-badged vehicles, then do a frame-up of a CJ. Either way, you get exactly what you want and nothing extraneous, all for way less money than you would spend de-luxurifying a modern vehicle. Plus you can repair it in the field with a roll of hand tools.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

jazzop89 said:


> If you are willing to spend $55k on a customized 4x4, perhaps you should look at Series Land Rovers or Defenders bit more closely. * With the proper upgrades, a Rover will pay for itself in extraction fees from stuck Jeep owners.* If you have some sort of loyalty to US-badged vehicles, then do a frame-up of a CJ. Either way, you get exactly what you want and nothing extraneous, all for way less money than you would spend de-luxurifying a modern vehicle. Plus you can repair it in the field with a roll of hand tools.


:vs_lol: thats funny right there


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

jazzop89 said:


> If you are willing to spend $55k on a customized 4x4, perhaps you should look at Series Land Rovers or Defenders bit more closely. With the proper upgrades, a Rover will pay for itself in extraction fees from stuck Jeep owners. If you have some sort of loyalty to US-badged vehicles, then do a frame-up of a CJ. Either way, you get exactly what you want and nothing extraneous, all for way less money than you would spend de-luxurifying a modern vehicle. Plus you can repair it in the field with a roll of hand tools.


I looked at Landrover. They suck compared to jeep. Can't peel the roof off, can't take the doors off, can't run a soft top, and the interior is worse than a jeep.

As for which one gets stuck easier, the jeep is just plain more advanced


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

I finally did get my rubi. What a machine!


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Bob Sanders said:


> I finally did get my rubi. What a machine!


Cool !! Enjoy Bob.


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## jazzop89 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bob Sanders said:


> I looked at Landrover. They suck compared to jeep. Can't peel the roof off, can't take the doors off, can't run a soft top, and the interior is worse than a jeep.
> 
> As for which one gets stuck easier, the jeep is just plain more advanced
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsY5umMfUxg


I only suggested a Series LR or a Defender. Both of them have removable roofs, folding windscreens, removable doors, etc. Not sure what you mean by the interior being worse, but personally I like a 4x4 that lets you hose it out with a pressure washer-- which the old Rovers handle nicely.

I do not consider the Discovery, Range Rover, LR2, LR3, or any of that other rhinestone cowboy crap to be a true Landy. I would also have to exclude the more recent Defenders, which started becoming wussified around 2007.

All that is moot now that you bought your Jeep. Enjoy it and keep the greasy side down!


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Having a blast with it!

Just stuck goodyear wrangler 305 tires on with sota rims. Trimmed the fenders flat and added a modest 2" lift along with a 1.25 inch body lift










Got a 10,500 lb winch on the front (which I have had to use twice now!)

And I just picked up some super-duper nasty falcon 3.3 shocks









They'll be on next week. The travel is a bit longer and you can adjust the ride. The stock rubicon shocks are a bit stiff in the city.... a bit stiffer than your typical truck


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