# front yard landscaping help



## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

We have 3 knockout roses around the lamppost, 3 carpet roses in the middle and some hostas all around. They are all struggling. 

Nothing will really grow in this area so I'm looking at the best solution of making this area smaller, but still look appealing.


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Make that picture smaller.
The new forum "features" are blocking half of it.

What can be seen though looks just fine.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

TarheelTerp said:


> Make that picture smaller.
> The new forum "features" are blocking half of it.
> 
> What can be seen though looks just fine.


I use my smartphone. Let me see how to make it smaller.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)




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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)




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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

Start with the soil and what is leeching into it from the mulch.
eg: roses are finicky... if they're doing well other plants will have issues.

hth


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

TarheelTerp said:


> Start with the soil and what is leeching into it from the mulch.
> eg: roses are finicky... if they're doing well other plants will have issues.
> 
> hth


We have decided on just making this area smaller. Looking for design ideas...


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

I'd get rid of the whole thing and just plant grass. 


BTW, knowing where are may get you more help or suggestions.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-add-edit-your-location-157676/


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Blondesense said:


> I'd get rid of the whole thing and just plant grass.
> 
> BTW, knowing where are may get you more help or suggestions.
> http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-add-edit-your-location-157676/


WI. I really don't intro get rid if it, just looking for a new, smaller design. I just added new mulch.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I think it would look better if you had two separate beds.
it looks too big to me, and I think it would be more interesting
to treat them separately. 

Where the tree is on the left make it about an 8 foot oval...
let the amount of space you have on the left guide you to the 
amount is space you make on the right side of the tree.

Fill in the new oval with the existing plants you have in the
larger area.

Make a round bed around the lamp post and surround it with 
a low growing perennial ground cover, you can also plant a few annuals
in between the ground cover like geraniums...
geraniums are sun loving plants with low maintenance.

Another idea for the lamp post would be hosta.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I think it would look better if you had two separate beds.
> it looks too big to me, and I think it would be more interesting
> to treat them separately.
> 
> ...


Nice idea. What should I put in the middle?
FYI. Nothing will grow by the trees.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

valpd said:


> Nice idea. What should I put in the middle?
> FYI. Nothing will grow by the trees.


Do you think the oval around the lamppost should be smaller than the oval around the tree? Should I lay down sod, grass seed or decorative rocks in the middle?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

valpd said:


> Do you think the oval around the lamppost should be smaller than the oval around the tree? Should I lay down sod, grass seed or decorative rocks in the middle?


The tree should be a oval and the lampost should be a smaller circle.
Put grass in the middle. I love big rocks too, in the bigger oval
(lets say this comes out to be 8 foot) put decorate big rocks.

In the lampost, make that a smaller round bed, put some ground cover
and then in between you can bury pots of flowers. That's a trick we do..
first in early spring we start out with pansies, then when it gets hot we
switch to geramiums.










above is an example of mixing it up...this is from May 2004...By the time June
1 arrives there is no dirt showing... the perrenial ground covers spread.
note the hosta in the above right side...hostas are gorgeous...
look into then for the circle around the lampost.
We hunted down all these round rocks ourselves and the driftwood too.

Use your imagination, the world is your canvas.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Would grass seed be the way to go as far as the middle area of the 2 rings or something like decorative stone?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, grass in the middle...just put stones in the oval bed along with
the plants. I put a pic of my front yard in a thread last week...
now I cant find it. 
In my opinion, the front should be neat with plants and a minimum
of flowers. In our yard our front is neat, the back yard it the opposite,
high impact. 
The example I showed you -- is from the end of our pond, I tried to
show what I mean by incorporating rocks and driftweed in a flower bed.

BTW. I would make the oval with some curves that are in and out,
keep it interesting.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Yes, grass in the middle...just put stones in the oval bed along with
> the plants. I put a pic of my front yard in a thread last week...
> now I cant find it.
> In my opinion, the front should be neat with plants and a minimum
> ...


Grass in between would be ideal, but I have kids who play sports to this area. Trying to figure out what else could go in the middle and still look good...


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

valpd said:


> Grass in between would be ideal, but I have kids who play sports to this area. Trying to figure out what else could go in the middle and still look good...


I just added the mulch recently so I would want to keep that inside the rings.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I mean two seperate beds, one oval, one round...the space in the
middle of the beds (the rings) fill in with grass.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I mean two seperate beds, one oval, one round...the space in the
> middle of the beds (the rings) fill in with grass.


I was thinking more of doing a 6-8ft ring around the tree and a 3-4ft ring around the lamppost. As far as the grass....Great idea but I have kids running around this area constantly. Grass seed wouldn't work and I really don't wanna do sod.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I mean two seperate beds, one oval, one round...the space in the
> middle of the beds (the rings) fill in with grass.


I would keep mulch in the rings.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, that would be fine...
Here's the front of our yard.

The big trees have a circle with just hosta.

The other bed is an irregular shaped Island with vinca vine,
low growing birds nest shruns, a Japanese Maple, and rocks that are
now hardly visable.

Taken from inside the house.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Yes, that would be fine...
> Here's the front of our yard.
> 
> The big trees have a circle with just hosta.
> ...


Looks great. Still thinking of ideas of what to put instead of grass in the middle.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Yes, that would be fine...
> Here's the front of our yard.
> 
> The big trees have a circle with just hosta.
> ...


What about leaving the connection between the tree and lamppost but just making a new design with the pavers?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Two knots...I was just about to reference your pic from that thread last week...perfect example of how to do it....

BTW....I love the look of your front yard...no straight lines....nice random smooth curves...plenty of variety. Great choice of ground cover around the tree and most importantly....well manicured....


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Drive through an expensive area and you will see all the really classy homes have river rock instead of mulch


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks ddawg...
valid...Here's what you can do...make the oval bed, make the round bed,
both lined with the pavers you already have.
If you don't want grass in the middle, then cut a curvy bed between 
both beds with just a cut edge and plant more low growing shrubs.
Go for different shades of green, in between put nice rocks.

I prefer river rock over mulch, but that's personal choice.

Another hint...lay the shape of your bed out -- with a garden house,
step back and look at it and decide what you like before cutting the bed.

If I knew how to use a landscaping program I would draw it up for you.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Thanks ddawg...
> valid...Here's what you can do...make the oval bed, make the round bed,
> both lined with the pavers you already have.
> If you don't want grass in the middle, then cut a curvy bed between
> ...


Draw it on paper. Take a pic and post it.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

ok, the first pic is my choice...just two seperate beds with grass
in between. 

The beds could be lined with your pavers.

in bed A...plant low growing evergreens and decorate
with large rocks. 

in bed B around the lamp post just plant something
like hosta or woodbine.

in the second drawing, bed c ... I connected the two beds with
another bed ... no pavers surrounding this bed, just a nice
deep cut bed. Again, low growing rock garden type evergreens.
If you do this bed (c) I think a Japanese red maple would be
great in the middle of this bed.

I would re-think the chips in the beds...it would be ok to keep
them...but, river rock would fit much better with some large
rocks and boulders.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Valpd...When I say big rocks in the bed, be choosy,
some great looking rocks along with great looking
low growing shrubs will look awesome.

Go on a rock hunt and find some great rocks.

We move rocks around like furniture. 
As the plants fill in and bury our rocks, we move 
them around...
This is my favorite rock, I call it my frog rock...
it looks like a frog and the golden color is awesome.

can you see that it looks like a frog;
can you the hind leg and see the head?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> ok, the first pic is my choice...just two seperate beds with grass
> in between.
> 
> The beds could be lined with your pavers.
> ...












I ran into these at work today and I wonder what they are. They look great. 

I am still torn between grass seed or sod. I can easily make the rings, but then there's going right be one big black blob of dirt in the middle until I decide on what to do with the area.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Valpd...When I say big rocks in the bed, be choosy,
> some great looking rocks along with great looking
> low growing shrubs will look awesome.
> 
> ...


Really nice!


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Thanks ddawg...
> valid...Here's what you can do...make the oval bed, make the round bed,
> both lined with the pavers you already have.
> If you don't want grass in the middle, then cut a curvy bed between
> ...




Once I reshape the bed will the hostas and other plants that I move survive? Its going to be in the 60's here this week.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

yes, they'll survive. Be sure to water them.

60's ? ...what planting zone are you?


Before you ask...here's the link by zip code.

http://www.garden.org/zipzone/


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> yes, they'll survive. Be sure to water them.
> 
> 60's ? ...what planting zone are you?
> 
> ...


5a zone


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> yes, they'll survive. Be sure to water them.
> 
> 60's ? ...what planting zone are you?
> 
> ...


The reason I'm worried about grass or sod is the area will never be left alone. This is near an area where my son plays with his friends, etc....


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

Stop worrying about a what???- a three foot square section of grass?
Don't the kids play on the other parts of the grass as well?

Here is what you can do, sod the small area between the beds.

If the kids ruin that little area, then remove the sod, and cut
the bed, and then either plant that area, or cover it with river rock. 

This gives you more energy to focus on planting the big 
area which will definately enhance your front yard.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Stop worrying about a what???- a three foot square section of grass?
> Don't the kids play on the other parts of the grass as well?
> 
> Here is what you can do, sod the small area between the beds.
> ...


I'll measure it. I'm pretty sure the area in the middle is much bigger than that.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> Stop worrying about a what???- a three foot square section of grass?
> Don't the kids play on the other parts of the grass as well?
> 
> Here is what you can do, sod the small area between the beds.
> ...


4x6 area


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

How much is 24 squares of sod?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> How much is 24 squares of sod?


I need to visit Menard's tonight to find out. Not sure how much sod normally costs.


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

Here at Home Depot a 2.2 square foot section of sod is about $3.


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## Tatertot (Jan 7, 2012)

Seed > Sod imo. It takes just as much water and dies faster and costs more.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Tatertot said:


> Seed > Sod imo. It takes just as much water and dies faster and costs more.


What costs more


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> How much is 24 squares of sod?


What about this idea....?

Maybe some sort of mulch path between the edgers? With a contrasting look to the mulch around the tree/lamp?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

how about rocks, like small river rocks. 
I'm not a fan of mulch.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> how about rocks, like small river rocks.
> I'm not a fan of mulch.


So instead of sod in the middle between the tree and lamppost how should the rock placement be? And what would be underneath it?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

You could just dig out in the middle making a bed, it doesn't 
have to have river rock ...it could just be planted with perennial
plants like hosta. the pic I showed you -- note the hosta is just
planted in the dirt. 

Or you could put in stones, like river rock
and plant in between. We put nothing under our stones, every 
two years or so, we buy a couple more bags of rocks and refresh it.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> You could just dig out in the middle making a bed, it doesn't
> have to have river rock ...it could just be planted with perennial
> plants like hosta. the pic I showed you -- note the hosta is just
> planted in the dirt.
> ...


I am leaning towards a bigger circle around the tree and a smaller one around the lampost. Sod vs river rock in the middle is the only next decision I gotta make. If I would go with river rock I wouldn't plant anything there. Now its just trying to visualize what would look better between the two.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I would do Sod...remove the mulch and use nice dark topsoil and then plant the
beds.
Also, decorate it with nice attractive large rocks.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I would do Sod...remove the mulch and use nice dark topsoil and then plant the
> beds.
> Also, decorate it with nice attractive large rocks.


Anything special needed for the sod before I lay it down?


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

valpd said:


> Anything special needed for the sod before I lay it down?


I'm not a landscaper, only a gal with " the vision" 

If nobody else jumps in here with landscaping experience,
then do a search...We never used sod only seed.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

valpd said:


> Anything special needed for the sod before I lay it down?


By grass guy always gave me a bag of fertilizer to lay down a light dusting on the dirt...then the sod....


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I'm not a landscaper, only a gal with " the vision"
> 
> If nobody else jumps in here with landscaping experience,
> then do a search...We never used sod only seed.












Here is how my patio looks. I have river rock here in the back and love it. I think it mixesbin nicely with the mulch also.

I need help in determining how to lay the river rock in the middle between the two rings between the lamppost and tree.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

That looks nice and neat.

Just lay out your design, with a rope or hose.
When yo see what you like, start digging.

Line it with the pavers and fill in the center
with the river rocks.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> That looks nice and neat.
> 
> Just lay out your design, with a rope or hose.
> When yo see what you like, start digging.
> ...


Start digging ? I don't follow.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

if you're making two circles and a new center bed area,
don't you have to dig up the grass?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> That looks nice and neat.
> 
> Just lay out your design, with a rope or hose.
> When yo see what you like, start digging.
> ...












What about leaving what I have and making it this design.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

That looks very nice, but much bigger than you think.
Follow the design, and scale it down to fit your area.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> That looks very nice, but much bigger than you think.
> Follow the design, and scale it down to fit your area.


I would just have to move in the pavers much closer in the middle.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> That looks very nice, but much bigger than you think.
> Follow the design, and scale it down to fit your area.


By moving the pavers in closer in the middle wouldn't I have to fill in the areas left with dirt with grass seed?


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

valpd -

In my opinion, the whole landscape situation is just a little too neat, flat, artificial and uninteresting. Needs height variation and color. Granted it is currently neat, organized and pretty.

While you are at it, do something to set your home out from the mundane.

Dick


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> That looks very nice, but much bigger than you think.
> Follow the design, and scale it down to fit your area.


I was also thinking adding some native grasses and drought tolerant perennials.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

The other big problem by planting grass seed now in June is making sure that it has enough water to survive the hot summer months coming up. Should I wait until late August to do this?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

By the way what grass seed is most recommended?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

The final touches.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

I think that looks very good. :thumbsup:

Think about sod in the center. In my humble opinion
grass in the center is best, not rocks.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> I think that looks very good. :thumbsup:
> 
> Think about sod in the center. In my humble opinion
> grass in the center is best, not rocks.


I layed down grass seed and then some hay. The only thing I'm wondering is if I need to add some topsoil around the lamppost ring. I had to place the pavers up a bit to make it smaller.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

why the hay? does it keep the seed moist?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Two Knots said:


> why the hay? does it keep the seed moist?


Many reasons, keeps the birds from eating it, the seeds germinate better and on windy days the seeds don't fly off. The hay disintegrates after time.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Put some.topsoil around the pavers.


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## Tatertot (Jan 7, 2012)

Nice job.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

What should be my water and schedule now for the grass seed?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

valpd said:


> What should be my water and schedule now for the grass seed?


Keep the soil damp until the seed germinates and gets some height. Could be a couple/few times a day.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> Keep the soil damp until the seed germinates and gets some height. Could be a couple/few times a day.


I have no way of watering until evening. Should I wait until a certain time or does it matter. I have straw over the grass seed as well.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

valpd said:


> I have no way of watering until evening. Should I wait until a certain time or does it matter. I have straw over the grass seed as well.


Ideally you don't water at night but if you have no choice then water when you can. Maybe before you leave for work then as soon as you get home. The weather will dictate how much and the frequency. The straw will help keep the soil moist. The key is to not let the soil dry out.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> Ideally you don't water at night but if you have no choice then water when you can. Maybe before you leave for work then as soon as you get home. The weather will dictate how much and the frequency. The straw will help keep the soil moist. The key is to not let the soil dry out.


I would do it around 6pm.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

valpd said:


> I would do it around 6pm.


That will do. There's still some daylight left. Watering at night is bad because it can promote fungus and mold growth. With new seed you have to keep the soil damp so the seed and new grass doesn't dry out and die. Good luck!


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> That will do. There's still some daylight left. Watering at night is bad because it can promote fungus and mold growth. With new seed you have to keep the soil damp so the seed and new grass doesn't dry out and die. Good luck!


Thank you.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Were supposed to get some strong storms with high winds tomorrow afternoon. I still have the straw over the grass seed. what to do if it all blows away?


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

Should I have added more topsoil or will this look OK after it all fills in? I didn't want to add topsoil and have it look too high.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

How long before adding more grass seed to the spots that have no grass here?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

If you have large spots without grass, add the seed now. The thinner spots should fill in as the new grass grows and spreads. If the grass has grown to 3+ inches and the straw is still there, I would get rid of it now.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> If you have large spots without grass, add the seed now. The thinner spots should fill in as the new grass grows and spreads. If the grass has grown to 3+ inches and the straw is still there, I would get rid of it now.


Your saying to get rid of the straw now ? The spots are not large, but I guess once I take out the straw that will tell me how it really looks. The grass is about 3 inches. What would happen if I leave the straw there. It had only been 2 weeks.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

In my opinion the straw starts to smother the new grass. You can wait if you feel more comfortable and if your weather is going to be hot and sunny. As I recall your ability to water is limited.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> In my opinion the straw starts to smother the new grass. You can wait if you feel more comfortable and if your weather is going to be hot and sunny. As I recall your ability to water is limited.


It is going to be hot the next week. I can water easily.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

If it was my lawn, I would pull up the straw now.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> If it was my lawn, I would pull up the straw now.


Let me post some pics after I take the straw out. There are a lot of bare spots still. Do I add more seed in that case and then let the seeds sit out without being covered with straw?


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Yes you can leave the new seed uncovered. Just keep it watered.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)




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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Looks good.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> Looks good.


Now I just don't know if I should seed some of the bare spots or just wait.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Looks like you should add some seed around the borders.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> Looks like you should add some seed around the borders.


That's where the pigeons hang out....unfortunately. If I add any seed they will eat it all.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

You could use some netting or mesh to keep the birds away.


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## valpd (Mar 29, 2013)

djlandkpl said:


> You could use some netting or mesh to keep the birds away.


I just hope that by Fall or next Spring the grass grows nice enough to eliminate the straight line on each side.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Keep it watered and fertilized and you'll never know it was there. If any weeds start to grow, pull them up by hand. A spray will be too hard on the new grass.


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