# The Windows 11 Fiasco



## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

In August 2021, Microsoft announced to several news outlets that it would allow PCs built before 2018 to install the upcoming Windows 11 OS.

This came on the heels of Microsoft’s release of the Windows 11 compatibility checker that essentially excluded computers running still-powerful CPUs like the Intel Core i7-7700U and AMD Ryzen 7 1800X. Ironically, Microsoft Surface laptops are also excluded from Windows 11.

One if my workstations have an Intel Core i7-7700U CPU with 16GB of RAM and TPM 2.0, a robust workstation that meets all the criteria for Windows 11 yet Microsoft deems in ineligible for automatic update because of the CPU.

To further complicate things, manually updating to Windows 11 will have to be done using a Windows 11 ISO file.

For anyone unfamiliar with this process, this involves putting the ISO file on a CD/DVD or external drive and installing it that way. There are sites online that explains how this is to be done.

Using the ISO method will also likely mean you’ll have to erase everything on your drive and start with a fresh install.

Like many things Microsoft, this comes with a caveat. Microsoft has stated that it *might withhold updates from devices on older hardware including security and driver updates.*

Why Microsoft has chosen to cause such an upheaval in the OS world is somewhat of a mystery. After all, upon its release, Windows 10 was supposed to be the last OS Microsoft produced and that henceforth it would be pushing out regular updates instead of introducing new versions.

Whatever the reason, I think it would be wise to be wary of the manual Windows 11 upgrade until the dust settles which does not look like it will be anytime soon.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

And here is one reason I will avoid it as long as possible.

Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Drachenfire said:


> To further complicate things, manually updating to Windows 11 will have to be done using a Windows 11 ISO file.
> 
> For anyone unfamiliar with this process, this involves putting the ISO file on a CD/DVD or external drive and installing it that way. There are sites online that explains how this is to be done.


I assume you're thinking an automatic update to Windows 11 should be done at the click of a mouse?


Drachenfire said:


> Using the ISO method will also likely mean you’ll have to erase everything on your drive and start with a fresh install.


Why would you assume that when you can upgrade to Windows 10 without losing anything on your computer?


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

joed said:


> And here is one reason I will avoid it as long as possible.
> 
> Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account.


Windows 10 Home is similar. You can get around it but they do not make it easy for a novice. I only use Pro versions so I do not have the same issues.



huesmann said:


> I assume you're thinking an automatic update to Windows 11 should be done at the click of a mouse?


That is essentially how it is being done on so-called "compatible" systems not unlike the other version updates to Windows 10.



huesmann said:


> Why would you assume that when you can upgrade to Windows 10 without losing anything on your computer?


Microsoft has pushed a number of version upgrades to Windows 10 that did not require reimaging the computer, the latest being 21H1. However, what we are talking about here is *manually* upgrading a non-compatible Windows 10 computer to *Windows 11* using an ISO image. Loading an OS from an ISO image normally requires re-formatting the HDD.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

How to install Win11 without MS Account:









How to install Windows 11 Home without a Microsoft account? - GizPie


We have already explained how you can get Windows 11 ISO file and create a bootable drive to install the latest OS on your PC. But Windows 11 will require a Microsoft account during the setup process. When you turn on your PC for the first time or after a new installation of Windows 11, […]




gizpie.com


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

Interesting read, first few pages and page 10



https://www.grc.com/sn/SN-840-Notes.pdf


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

I don't see how win 11 can possibly be considered an upgrade, win 10 and 8 were not!

Windows 10 will have official support until 2025, there is no reason to change.
Windows 7 still works just fine.


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## Carpet (Jan 1, 2018)

It should be possible to use the .iso from a USB device. If they nixxed that ability I'll just switch my gear to floppy discs.


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## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

user_12345a said:


> ...Windows 10 will have official support until 2025, there is no reason to change.
> Windows 7 still works just fine.


i just purchased a new desktop to replace my wife's aging Win-7 unit. The old PC still worked OK, just painfully slow. The new PC came with Win-10 or Win-11 -- we chose to go with Win-10.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I got tired of the constant "upgrades" that Windows puts out...often more of a downgrade.
A few years ago I bought a Mac to use for our small home business.
Best choice I every made.
Yes, the Mac's are costly. But they upgrade themselves.
I've been through about 8 PC's in the last 20 years, and 4 laptops.
I actually started with Win 3.1
The Mac has me believing that it is here to stay.
So I'm packing up my pc's, my laptop's and donating them.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Drachenfire said:


> Microsoft has pushed a number of version upgrades to Windows 10 that did not require reimaging the computer, the latest being 21H1. However, what we are talking about here is *manually* upgrading a non-compatible Windows 10 computer to *Windows 11* using an ISO image. Loading an OS from an ISO image normally requires re-formatting the HDD.


You must be unfamiliar with the "keep personal files and apps" option.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

huesmann said:


> You must be unfamiliar with the "keep personal files and apps" option.


I am quite familiar with it. However, not all ISO installs will let you do this. It all depends on how the image is created. Case in point, when I create images for the network I work on, by design, it wipes the drive first. 

However, even if one does get it installed on an incompatible workstation without losing data, that workstation will no longer get automatic updates. This means new features, security and driver updates will not automatically install. I have not yet found any documentation that indicates these updates will be available for manual download and installation. 

If you do have issues with Windows 11, you can revert back to Windows 10, but there is a caveat. This option is only available for 10 days following your upgrade, after which time the files needed to perform this function will be removed to free up disk space on your workstation. 

This means after 10 days, if you want to put Windows 10 back on, you will either have to do a factory reset or reload the OS from the Windows 10 disk, both options will wipe your data from the hard drive.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

Have you seen the Win 11 commercial? 
Young men expounding on how great the video is working on WIN 11 with out lagging. 
I always though video was hard ware dependent not software dependent.

Happy as a clam, Win 7


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

The only benefit of Windows 11 that I would see is the increased security. Personally, I plan to stick with Windows 10 until Microstuff stops supporting it, like they did with Windows 7. I never used Windows 8, except to try it out a bit; I don't see why I can't just keep using Win10 (assuming continued support) until Windows 12 comes out.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

huesmann said:


> I don't see why I can't just keep using Win10 (assuming continued support) until Windows 12 comes out.


You should be good at least until October 2025 which is when Microsoft (MS) plans to sunset Windows 10. By then Microsoft should have most of bugs out of Windows 11 or release Windows 12 which will likely be the "fixed" version of Windows 11.

This aligns with a theory I and others in the IT world have long held. MS uses an unwitting public to beta test it's new operating systems (OS)..., and make them pay for the privilege.

In 1995, Windows 95 was released. Although still based on MS-DOS, it was MS's first full on GUI OS. Previous versions of Windows was an overlay of MS-DOS.

In 1998, Windows 98 was released. It is believed that along with some enhanced features such Outlook Express and the Windows Address Book, numerous bugs found in 95 was fixed in the 98 version. Windows 98 Second Edition released the following year and proved to be one of MS most stable OS.

In 2000 came Windows ME, the last OS based on on MS-DOS. Supposedly the consumer version of Windows 2000 which was developed for the enterprise market the probably one the worst OS ever released. ME was so bad that many people who bought computers with it ended up reloading Windows 98. Ironically, Windows 2000, proved to be very stable. This just adds to the mystery why ME was such a bad OS if it was in fact based on Windows 2000.

This became a pattern with MS of releasing bug riddled OS followed by significantly more stable ones.

ME was followed by;

Windows XP (stable)
Vista (unstable)
Windows 7 (stable)
Windows 8 (unstable)
Windows 10 (stable)

... and they made money on every single version, sometimes more than once. There is no telling how many people bought a computer with an unstable OS and then plunked down the cash for the subsequent, stable, version.

If MS stays true to form, Windows 12 will be result of all the fixes applied to Windows 11.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Just thinking... Does anyone else remember when we used to _look forward to_ new releases?

Now, we dread them. Justifiably so, IMHO. New versions used to come with exciting new features and capabilities. Now they come with "change for change's sake" like a re-design of the UI. It seems the goal now is to milk users for more money, not to improve the product.

One thing I learned in a career in IT was that it's always best to leapfrog versions. For every update you skip, you've saved yourself a ton of money and aggravation. Eventually an upgrade is worth the investment, but not every one the manufacturer wants to shove down your throat.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

CaptTom said:


> One thing I learned in a career in IT was that it's always best to leapfrog versions. For every update you skip, you've saved yourself a ton of money and aggravation. Eventually an upgrade is worth the investment, but not every one the manufacturer wants to shove down your throat.


And never get the 1st generation as it will inevitably have numerous bugs that need to be fixed. Anyone remember the first XBox 360s to hit the market? There is no telling how many Microsoft had to replace because of the red-ring-of-death.


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## ServiceCall (Dec 8, 2019)

I still run windows 98 on a laptop


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## taylorjm (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm shocked that Windows 11 isn't subscription based. That's what MS was saying would happen after Windows 10. They are tired of people still running Windows 7 and them not making any money off of those people, so they were going to make Windows 11 an annual subscription like Office 365. Basically, you stop paying, your computer is a paperweight.


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## Steve2444 (Sep 28, 2020)

It will be a cold day in hell that I ever upgrade windows to another platform ever again.
I have 10 it works, I am happy.
When I buy another computer, I will decide then the operating system it comes with.

Started with win 3.1.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Missouri Bound said:


> I got tired of the constant "upgrades" that Windows puts out...often more of a downgrade.
> A few years ago I bought a Mac to use for our small home business.
> Best choice I every made.
> Yes, the Mac's are costly. But they upgrade themselves.
> ...


Apple tends to stop supporting hardware after a few short years - locked out of upgrades.
The machines themselves are designed for the dump, no repair for you!


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

user_12345a said:


> Apple tends to stop supporting hardware after a few short years - locked out of upgrades.
> The machines themselves are designed for the dump, no repair for you!


There is also the matter of Apple's efforts to prevent third-party facilities from carrying out repairs on Apple equipment. The industry is aware of Apple's infamous ham-fisted efforts to shut down, sue, or otherwise imperil third-party repair shops They have gone so far as to try an enlist the government to confiscate refurbished parts at the border and claiming they are counterfeit.

This would be the same thing as you replacing your broken Toyota Camry windshield with a Nissan and Toyota tries to get it confiscated claiming it is a counterfeit. Yes, it is that ridiculous.

Some would ask why this is a concern, after all would it not be better if Apple fixed it's own products through their Apple Genius Bar repair facilities?

The answer would be, "sure"..., if the Apple Genius Bar was not trying to rip off their customers.

There are numerous videos showing people taking their product to the Apple Genius Bar for repairs only to be told the repairs would cost so much the customer would do better buying a new product. The customer then takes the product to a third-party repair facility where their product was repaired often at a cost of less than a quarter the cost of a new product. Louis Rossman has a series of videos on his YouTube channel exposing Apple's deceit. 

One of the most blatant was a guy who took his laptop to Apple because the monitor was not working. They took it in the back for "examination". When the "tech" came out, he gave the customer a laundry list of parts that needed to be repaired to at a cost of hundreds of dollars. 

The customer took the laptop to Louis who determined in less than 10-minutes the problem was a ribbon cable that came loose. He re-attached the cable, powered on the laptop and monitor functioned properly. Louis did not even charge the guy for the repair as it was so simple.

Now Apple is using custom made chips in place of ones commonly available. Because these custom made chips are not available to third-party facilities, the customer is forced to take their product to Apple for repair if the chip fails. And based on Apple's track record, they are not going to replace the $20 chip but instead hit the customer for the triple-digit cost of replacing the whole circuit board or worse a new device.

To put this in perspective, let us apply another automotive analogy.

You buy a Honda and the battery fails. Because Honda put a proprietary battery in their cars, instead of just going down the neighborhood auto store and buying a Die Hard for $180, you are forced to go to the Honda Genius Bar who tells you that in addition to a new battery at a cost of $350, the alternator (which is functioning perfectly) also needs to be replaced because the battery failure is a sign the alternator could fail. The cost to replace both is only $3000.

Right now, third-party repair businesses and people like Louis Rossman are fighting this anti-competitive practice in many states and making progress, but the corporations are not going down without a fight.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

screw apple. i feel sorry for "no one" thats buys them.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Never owned an Apple product..., and very likely never will.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

years ago i decided to get my first phone, i didn't know squat. a guy at work that upgrades every other year gave me his old apple phone. i took a few pics and tried to upload them to my PC = royal pita, i gave up. some techy guys i used to know said screw apple.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

user_12345a said:


> Apple tends to stop supporting hardware after a few short years - locked out of upgrades.
> The machines themselves are designed for the dump, no repair for you!


Will have to disagree with this Statement. I own an Apple MacBook Pro *from 2009* which I use for one purpose alone, and that is daily Backups from my NAS [55 TB] to the cloud. Windows machines aren't allowed to backup mapped NAS Servers.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Deja-vue said:


> Will have to disagree with this Statement. I own an Apple MacBook Pro *from 2009* which I use for one purpose alone, and that is daily Backups from my NAS [55 TB] to the cloud. Windows machines aren't allowed to backup mapped NAS Servers.


can your macbook pro run a current version of osx that still gets updates? probably not.


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## 01-7700 (Oct 31, 2021)

had no problems with the Win 11 update - it's been running flawlessly for about 2 months


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Deja-vue said:


> Windows machines aren't allowed to backup mapped NAS Servers.


Huh? What is stopping them?


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

CaptTom said:


> Huh? What is stopping them?


They [Crashplan.com] said it is a security-Issue.🤢


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Deja-vue said:


> They [Crashplan.com] said it is a security-Issue.🤢


You will need to be more specific. The main page says nothing about NAS.
Additionally, the page refers to a business advertising "cloud-based" storage. Of course they are going to make any local based storage system sound inferior. 

As far as NAS working with Windows, I and no other person I know using NAS with Windows have had any issues with it.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

Deja-vue said:


> They [Crashplan.com] said it is a security-Issue.🤢


Time to find a new cloud provider. This isn't a Windows issue!

Better still, if you're using (and understand the concept of) a NAS, just set up another one at another location and keep them in sync.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

Drachenfire said:


> You will need to be more specific. The main page says nothing about NAS.
> Additionally, the page refers to a business advertising "cloud-based" storage. Of course they are going to make any local based storage system sound inferior.
> 
> As far as NAS working with Windows, I and no other person I know using NAS with Windows have had any issues with it.


Yeez, I don't have any Issues with my NAS Devices, got three of them here, almost 90 TB of Storage.
Problem is, if I map a Share on the NAs to a Windows Machine, I won't be able to back up these mapped Drives on Crashplan.com.
This is not an Issue with mapped NAS Shares on the MAC. That's the only Reason I have the MAC.









Back up networked storage or NAS devices


Code42 supports backing up files that reside on network attached storage (NAS) on Mac and Linux. Storage must be mounted in order for the Code42 app to access it. This article provides information …




support.code42.com


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have always been a Windows PC user and have 2 desktops I built and a couple of laptops. My oldest desktop is the fastest, built with quality components and an i7-920 CPU. I know it's old, but it is overclocked to 3.6 Ghz and uses SSDs for the system hard drive so it still perfectly adequate, even for gaming. It began its life on Win7 and has been upgraded to Win 10, but it is not suitable for Win 11. Neither is a much newer PC that I built to run my security cams 24/7. I guess I am going to have to run them until win 10 ages out then build something new. What a PITA. Oh, and neither laptop is suitable for Win 11, but that isn't as much of an issue since those don't last near as long as a good desktop. What a difference from the Win 10 rollout that went pretty seamlessly.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> I have always been a Windows PC user and have 2 desktops I built and a couple of laptops. My oldest desktop is the fastest, built with quality components and an i7-920 CPU. I know it's old, but it is overclocked to 3.6 Ghz and uses SSDs for the system hard drive so it still perfectly adequate, even for gaming. It began its life on Win7 and has been upgraded to Win 10, but it is not suitable for Win 11. Neither is a much newer PC that I built to run my security cams 24/7. I guess I am going to have to run them until win 10 ages out then build something new. What a PITA. Oh, and neither laptop is suitable for Win 11, but that isn't as much of an issue since those don't last near as long as a good desktop. What a difference from the Win 10 rollout that went pretty seamlessly.


what I say to people like you is, give it time, and relax,

there is no rush to upgrade to windows 11 right now, use windows 10

i think you will find that as time progresses, they will make windows 11 compatible with more and more computers,

certain computers might not be currently compatible with windows 11 today, but that could change 6-12 months or more down the road,

I just built a new computer based around the Ryzen 5700G CPU, my computer is fully capable of running windows 11, but I am in no hurry or rush to up upgrade, im still on windows 10 pro


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## a_white96 (12 mo ago)

Also want to make a small update here. I have a 7740x, and cannot install Win 11. Is this a joke? Why the F my processor in not supported? It does not make any sense to me. I have a decent PC build overall, and wanted to try Win 11...apparently I cannot.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

a_white96 said:


> Also want to make a small update here. I have a 7740x, and cannot install Win 11. Is this a joke? Why the F my processor in not supported? It does not make any sense to me. I have a decent PC build overall, and wanted to try Win 11...apparently I cannot.


According this list: Can Windows 11 run on Intel 7th generation processors? – TECHEPAGES
it is supported. You may want to try a clean install of Windows 11.
Note: I don't know any Reason to upgrade to Win 11 right now. Win10 is doing everything for me just fine.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It could be it is not ready for your machine yet. I had a notice on my old machine about a widows 10 upgrade coming that took a couple months before it was ready for my machine. I think it was 20h2 update.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

a_white96 said:


> Also want to make a small update here. I have a 7740x, and cannot install Win 11. Is this a joke? Why the F my processor in not supported? It does not make any sense to me. I have a decent PC build overall, and wanted to try Win 11...apparently I cannot.


they are adding support for more machines everyday,

like i said in my previous post, be patient


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## a_white96 (12 mo ago)

Deja-vue said:


> According this list: Can Windows 11 run on Intel 7th generation processors? – TECHEPAGES
> it is supported. You may want to try a clean install of Windows 11.
> Note: I don't know any Reason to upgrade to Win 11 right now. Win10 is doing everything for me just fine.


Hey, thanks for your answer. Yeah, it was previously on the list, but I suppose they deleted it for whatever reasons. When I go to the update center on Win 10 now, I see that my processor is not supported, and I do not want to do anything else like clean install or whatever, I just want to press one button, lol!
Anyway, agreed that there is no reason to update RN from Win 10, I just wanted to try it out. "New is always better" (с) Barney Stinson


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

a_white96 said:


> Hey, thanks for your answer. Yeah, it was previously on the list, but I suppose they deleted it for whatever reasons. When I go to the update center on Win 10 now, I see that my processor is not supported, and I do not want to do anything else like clean install or whatever, I just want to press one button, lol!
> Anyway, agreed that there is no reason to update RN from Win 10, I just wanted to try it out. "New is always better" (с) Barney Stinson


I will be upgrading my computer in the next week or two, I will update here, and give my thoughts after I use it for a few weeks,

It's free, so I might as well try it out,

It's easy to go back to 10 if I want to


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

pumpkin11 said:


> I will be upgrading my computer in the next week or two, I will update here, and give my thoughts after I use it for a few weeks,
> 
> It's free, so I might as well try it out,
> 
> It's easy to go back to 10 if I want to


Yeah, but this time you only have 10 Days to do this. Again, I don't know any Reason why I should upgrade to Win 11 at this time.
Perhaps I'll wait for Windows 12.😎


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Deja-vue said:


> Yeah, but this time you only have 10 Days to do this.


Not true,

I can wipe my hard drive and install windows 10 again at any point, even a year from now,

when you upgrade to windows 11 your product code is still valid for windows 10, it never expires,

I was a computer tech for 10 years, HP and Lenovo


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

pumpkin11 said:


> Not true,
> 
> I can wipe my hard drive and install windows 10 again at any point, even a year from now,
> 
> ...


That was not the point, was it, Mr. Computer Tech?
We all can nuke and pave at anytime. Fact is, if you want to roll back from Windows 11 to 10 you got 10 days.
FWIW, I am *still* a Network/Computer tech since 1997, owning my own Computer Business.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Deja-vue said:


> Fact is, if you want to roll back from Windows 11 to 10 you got 10 days.


no you don't,

you can go back to windows 10 anytime you want to, even 2 years from now, i already explained how


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

a_white96 said:


> Also want to make a small update here. I have a 7740x, and cannot install Win 11. Is this a joke? Why the F my processor in not supported? It does not make any sense to me. I have a decent PC build overall, and wanted to try Win 11...apparently I cannot.


I took the plunge and upgraded a few days ago,

Have not had any issues or problems,

Overall, there doesn't seem to be that much difference,

The task bar at the bottom is a bit different,

The user interface is more eye appealing, and the settings menus seem to be a bit more easy to navigate, and user friendly,

My computer was already very fast, but seems a bit more quick on 11,

If your computer can handle Windows 11, then I would suggest at least trying it, you can go back if you want to,

People seem to be afraid of Windows 11 for some reason, not sure why, there isn't anything to fear....Lol

You are not any more likely to have issues with Windows 11 than you are with Windows 10,

I think people need to get past the whole "it's a new operating system" because it's really not, it's just a revision of Windows 10

So instead of thinking about it as being a new operating system, Just think about it as being a Windows 10 update, cause that is really what it is.

The upgrade on my computer didn't take very long, only about 20-30 mins start to finish,

I will be sticking with Windows 11


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the pleasure of staring at that flashing prompt wondering what the heck to do next. Yea, I mean MSdos with no windows at all.

Always wait for the third rollout.

Sticking with 10 until 2025.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I stuck with Windows 7 until I couldn't.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Colbyt said:


> Feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the pleasure of staring at that flashing prompt wondering what the heck to do next. Yea, I mean MSdos with no windows at all.
> 
> Always wait for the third rollout.
> 
> Sticking with 10 until 2025.


I can go further back than that. CP/M on a Commodore 128.


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Drachenfire said:


> I can go further back than that. CP/M on a Commodore 128.


I can beat that,

I had a Vic-20,

I remember loading games from a cassette tape!

I also had a Commodore PET

Look that one up! 😄


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I did have a pong game. Little square ball being hit back and forth with little rectangular paddles on a black and white television... Does that count? 😂 😂 😂


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## pumpkin11 (Oct 31, 2020)

Drachenfire said:


> I did have a pong game. Little square ball being hit back and forth with little rectangular paddles on a black and white television... Does that count? 😂 😂 😂


had one of those too!


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Believe it or not I finally threw away those 5 minute cassettes a few years back. 

I skipped the Commodore but had a 16 bit TI and basic. All that Basic work actually allowed me to learn PHP with reasonable ease.


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## Deja-vue (Mar 24, 2013)

you Guys are old. Just like me.
But, instead of playing pong, I play Tomb raider on my Xbox one X with an 83 inch OLED TV. in 4K. Dolby Vision.
Look it up. It may surprise you.
Time to grow up.


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

Update says my home brewed pc can't install W11 😎 👍
It's only an 11 year old Sandy Bridge, so dunno why... 😄


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