# Newspaper as underlayment???



## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

In brief, my house we bought cheap was built in 1917, has no foundation, has had various questionable repairs, and is receiving various projects as I'm able.

So I've openned up a wall on the porch to reinsulate and drywall it because my wife complained of it feeling particularly cold, in the process of doing so I observed that behind the wood paneling there was newspaper. I don't recall if I was able to find a date that was still legible, and at this point it's cleared out.

So at this point what I'm working on is digging footers so I can put in posts and beams under the floor joists to replace the stacks of concrete blocks which rest on dirt. It's a conditioned crawlspace, and the footer project isn't really the topic upon which I have a question.

What is prompting a question is the fact that I cut an additional crawlspace access openning in the floor, I did this particular access hatch last week, today I looked and noticed a layer of newspaper between the hardwood flooring and the subfloor boards. Just wondering if anyone knows what the purpose of this is supposed to be?

My guesses: air barrier?? Is it supposed to help retain moisture so the wood can rot quicker? Is it supposed to keep ants from coming into the living space? Reading material for the rats? Keep the floor boards from rubbing together so they don't squeak in spite of the overspanned undersized floor joists?


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> today I looked and noticed a layer of newspaper between the hardwood flooring and the subfloor boards. Just wondering if anyone knows what the purpose of this is supposed to be?


Accelerant ?


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Bud Cline said:


> Accelerant ?


How is it different than the brown paper you put under engineered flooring?


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> How is it different than the brown paper you put under engineered flooring?


That would be an accelerant also.


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## 1910NE (Sep 5, 2010)

My home (built 1910-ish) has newspaper up in the joists between the 2nd floor and the attic. Most appears to be dated around WW2. It is below a layer of some old cotton like insulation. Best guess is that it is some kind of an attempt at a vapor barrier...!?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Between the hardwood and the sub floor it was probably for noise. the keep the two wood from squeaking when they rubbed. Similar to rosin paper they use today.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

im with joed, back then they would use what was at hand. for coastal homes they would use seaweed for insulation, in the prairies they would use hay.

why not use old newspapers, ive seen it in several homes. the last one i saw this in had newspapers from the 30's


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## sevenlol (Aug 8, 2011)

my 1924 house has felt paper under the hardwood (for the main rooms that i've had to repair at least, but in 1 particular closet i had to demo the floor and it had several pages of 1924 newspaper under it instead. it was still readable, and actually quite interesting because it was the classifieds. new fords for 150 dollars, work ad's separated by race, apartments for rent for 18 dollars a month, etc.

i enjoy that period of history personally, so it was a little bit of a treat to see more from it first hand instead of a movie or tv show.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

The newspapers may have been used to level the floor too.

DM


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> The newspapers may have been used to level the floor too.
> 
> DM


I find the accelerant explanation more believable. I know it was probably not this far out when it was built, but my floor is out of level by several inches. Newspaper gives you 0.001" per page. I'd need many copies of the Sunday Edition unopenned to level this floor. :laughing:

Thanks all, I just found it curious as someone that doesn't see this all the time.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Try an experiment.....

Take some dry newspaper....sandwhich it between two sheets of plywood.....now light the paper....

Only the edge will burn and then go out...unless you can get the wood to catch fire.

The newspaper is no more an 'accelerent' than the wood around it....without air, the paper is not going to burn until the wood burns. It's not a fire hazard.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

It works just as good at preventing the floor from creaking too. (which is to say it doesn't work for that either)


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

*But wait there's more...*

I just had to share this... So I cut another crawlspace access hatch, this time in the dining room. The various layers didn't hold together like they had in other hardwood locations, so I got a look at the various layers. The dining room and kitchen have more layers, this much I already knew.

So beneath the 2005 linoleum tile on the surface, there was a layer of 1/4" plywood. This was installed over some older blue linoleum tile. In turn, this was installed over hardwood flooring. The hardwood flooring was installed over another layer of linoleum. Under the deepest layer of linoleum, newspaper then subfloor.

The real surprise - the newspaper is dated from 1938! This area of floor is part of the original house, which was built in 1917.

I fully intend to do my remodelling such that somebody isn't back 20 years from now tearing out and redoing what I am doing. Again. (x4?)


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

If it were a moisture barrier, from the looks of the wood, it did a good job.


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## mwpiper (Feb 26, 2009)

I figured out that my house was built in 1928 because they used newspaper as a mold release for the concrete forms in the coal cellar. The paper stuck to the ceiling where I pulled down a piece that was pealing off. Also found that the medicine chest in one bathroom was made out of the wooden boxes that the roof shingles had come in. Interesting choice of materials.


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## Handyman57 (Nov 18, 2011)

WillK said:


> In brief, my house we bought cheap was built in 1917, has no foundation, has had various questionable repairs, and is receiving various projects as I'm able.
> 
> So I've openned up a wall on the porch to reinsulate and drywall it because my wife complained of it feeling particularly cold, in the process of doing so I observed that behind the wood paneling there was newspaper. I don't recall if I was able to find a date that was still legible, and at this point it's cleared out.
> 
> ...


Most flooring has some kind of recommended underlayment recommended for it these days. 

With the older buildings, such as your's, it is common to see newspaper used instead of insulation in the walls. That was just what people did in those days.

However; the newspaper under your flooring is a lot less common, and was likely done by an amateur. In other words, no need to do it again for any future flooring! They may have used it in your old flooring there to level it, but it is more likely they thought it would do something for the noise. How does that floor sound when you walk on it? Any squeaks?


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## Handyman57 (Nov 18, 2011)

WillK said:


> I just had to share this... So I cut another crawlspace access hatch, this time in the dining room. The various layers didn't hold together like they had in other hardwood locations, so I got a look at the various layers. The dining room and kitchen have more layers, this much I already knew.
> 
> So beneath the 2005 linoleum tile on the surface, there was a layer of 1/4" plywood. This was installed over some older blue linoleum tile. In turn, this was installed over hardwood flooring. The hardwood flooring was installed over another layer of linoleum. Under the deepest layer of linoleum, newspaper then subfloor.
> 
> ...


LOL; I just saw this post after the post I just made. Sounds like you have lots of layers there! Some people don't like removing the old stuff.

It doesn't sound like people are going to have to re-do your work a few years down the road. Those who want to do it right usually do.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Handyman57 said:


> They may have used it in your old flooring there to level it


Oh no!! That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!! What a silly idea.

DM


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## Handyman57 (Nov 18, 2011)

DangerMouse said:


> Oh no!! That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!! What a silly idea.
> 
> DM


LOL; yes, I know it actually would not serve to level the floor. I was just saying that another poster may have been right in saying that that's the reasoning the person who did it used.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Ummmm yeah... that would be me in post #9. :laughing:

DM


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

jiju1943 said:


> If it were a moisture barrier, from the looks of the wood, it did a good job.


Ah, but the picture is from the floor of a different section of the house where I only have a hardwood floor layer, then newspaper, then subfloor.

Here's a pic of the area in question with the various layers of linoleum exposed.


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

*Old newspapers underfloors*

Interesting question why they used newspaper underlay in the early days. When we were children in the early 50's, dad decided to pull up the sheet linoluem to replace it. Underneath we found newspapers dating back to about 1920. The house was one of the first in Melbourne ever built as it was a farmhouse before the land was chopped up into smaller and smaller lots. It was built about 1850 when Melbourne's population was about 50,000 and the whole suburb of Brunswick belonged to it. Today, if it still existed, the house and land would be worth conservatively, $50 billion. I dream and digress, the only reason I can see for the newspaper was there was to act as separator and to stop the rippling effect of the floor boards showing through the linoluem. It seemed to do its job, as the old house had settled to the point the flloor boards were touching the ground.:euro: 
P,S, Sadly, the old house of 4 rooms was demolished about 1960 for a carpark.

Cheers! from Oz.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

WillK said:


> Ah, but the picture is from the floor of a different section of the house where I only have a hardwood floor layer, then newspaper, then subfloor.
> 
> Here's a pic of the area in question with the various layers of linoleum exposed.


Like I said, that blame paper will ruin a floor.:whistling2:


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

jiju1943 said:


> Like I said, that blame paper will ruin a floor.:whistling2:


 Man where does the time go, been busy and the weekend just flew by. I meant to say that my understanding is that, in this case, I can get all that moisture problem simply because of the moisture barrier I get from the linoleum. 

To make it worse, I also am aware that previous owners had installed fiberglass insulation between the joists under the floor. Most of it had fallen down by the time I bought it. If I hadn't given up on how things don't make sense, I'd also be puzzled by why they'd do this when they're heating the crawlspace with the furnace located in it and the vent on the hot air plenum.


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