# Bug ID



## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@pwcopy nice to meet you!

Those look like termites. The reason I say that is: (a) termites, unlike ants, don't like going into the light where they dry out; (b) they're really light colored; (c) they look like they don't have the skinny "waists" ants have. 

The pale, wingless ones in your picture are seeing off the darker flying adults, whose task it will be to fly off, mate, and make new colonies, before it gets too cold. Termites are much more common out here (California) but I used to live in Ohio (Cleveland) and we had them there, too.

There's various kinds of insect killers that will work to get rid of the termites themselves. I'm not sure exactly which those are (I get dry wood termites and burn the wood) but I'm sure others here will know.

A few notes:

1. There's two kinds of termites: "dry wood" (common out in California) and "subterranean" which are more common where you are. Odds are, the termites have first infested areas near the ground where their nest is. To be sure, dig down around near where you're finding the termites and see if you can find what looks like an ant nest, except with termites in it. Because it gets cold, subterranean termites are much more common where you are.

Sometimes, termites "commute" by using mud tubes to get to the wood from the soil where they usually live. Below are pictures of some.

2. Look really closely to see if there's other termite colonies in your structure or elsewhere. Odds are, there are some that you might not have noticed before. After 26 years, be prepared for surprises you might not like. (I'm celebrating 20 years of moving here to my present place, and I'm finding bugs galore!)

3. Aside from dealing with the termites, you'll need to fix the damage they caused. If you "nip them in the bud" damage can be minimal, but, be prepared for severe damage and the need to repair it. We have some able carpenters here who can help. (Paging Doctor @chandler48 (and others!) maybe you can help?)

4. Can't say I blame you for being hesitant about calling a pro. Back in my misspent youth in the 1970s I applied to work at Ortho and their big task was to try and get people to sign up for regular treatments they don't really need. Good for the stock price! 

Let us know what you find, and if you can find a way to ship some of that extra rainfall out here, sure would be nice! 

We're here to help and hope you can help yourself!


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm not an expert, but, I know termites can swarm with wings, looking for a place to settle down. It looks like there are possibly some young there. Can you put one in a jar & take a closer pic? I thought I saw bent antennae.

Rarely an expert will come by. There are none on the thread currently.

There are three kinds of termites out here.

Michigan -








Eastern Subterranean termites


Eastern Subterranean termites




www.canr.msu.edu









Subterranean and Other Termites Management Guidelines--UC IPM


UC home and landscape guidelines for control of Subterranean and Other Termites.



ipm.ucanr.edu


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Here's a rating regarding various types of termite killers.

The Top 5 Termite Killers of 2022 (thisoldhouse.com) 

What I like is that it's recent, and it appears that those putting up the site didn't have a stake in which one you choose, though careful review is always advised.

As a side note, you likely won't be able to use baits since the termites eat wood (baits can work great on ants).

Also, maybe get a super close picture so we can see the anatomical details better.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

A former pest guy told me that termites can eat on your house all day, but they need to return to the soil to gather moisture/water. That is why they set out the pods around the house. Those pods (or whatever they are called) distribute their "poison" to the nearby ground water so when the termites go for water, they die. Simple explanation if that is the case. I'm not a termite expert, except quoting you the cost of restoration of their damage


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

But, you guys don't know they are termites, yet!


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

They are pretty clearly ants. Probably Pharoah ants.... if their rear end is clearish... Ghost ants. Similar in nature. Just spray em.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@pwcopy can you get a good close up picture of your bugs? That will help with a positive ID, which is important.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> They are pretty clearly ants. Probably Pharoah ants.... if their rear end is clearish... Ghost ants. Similar in nature. Just spray em.


Hmm. Good point, but I think a close up is needed. Also, they appear out of the general range of P-ants, though, they're also finding armadillos west of Chicago.

Which is why I badgered for a picture. P-ants are a PIA to deal with.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

You can't zoom?


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> You can't zoom?


Doesn't help here. Picture too blurry.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Try new glasses.. lol


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> Try new glasses.. lol


I did, no workee. The images are too blurry.


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## XSleeper (Sep 23, 2007)

Cataracts.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

XSleeper said:


> Cataracts.


Nope, not so far. Or 'Rincoln Continentals, or Bentreys . . . . 

My dad and mom both had them, baby brother, too, but not me, so far.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

pwcopy said:


> I live in the Metro Detroit, Michigan area, and found these beasts on my PT Lumber deck yesterday. Look like small ants with wings (notice how small they are in relation to the deck screw heads). Our area is rife with carpenter ants, which can also have wings, but they are much larger. Termites? I've never seen these bugs in 26 years of living on this land. (Scroll down the pic to see the whole image. My biggest concern is for the rim joist of my home, which is made from standard (not PT) lumber. A few years back I fumigated a carpenter ant attack in one stretch of the rim joist. Guess I'll be headed into the crawl to scout it out for bugs again. I know what carpenter ant infestation looks like. Any other tips on scouting out the latest bug sighting? Stethoscope? What insecticide to use? I'd like to call a pro, but bad experiences have me hesitant. Many thanks for your help.
> View attachment 714352


I had what looks exactly like those earlier on the summer.... Out here on the west coast. A little bit of ant powder put an end to it. I came across the same yellow ants in the yard in September (under a wooden pallet) but not with any of the dark winged ones.

The carpenter ants and termites are bigger and more common here.

Edit: I'll also splash green wood preservative on wood that's vulnerable.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

u2slow said:


> I had what looks exactly like those earlier on the summer.... Out here on the west coast. A little bit of ant powder put an end to it. I came across the same yellow ants in the yard in September (under a wooden pallet) but not with any of the dark winged ones.
> 
> The carpenter ants and termites are bigger and more common here.
> 
> Edit: I'll also splash green wood preservative on wood that's vulnerable.


What was the active ingredient in the ant powder?


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## pwcopy (Aug 27, 2017)

Thanks for all the info! The attached photo is as close as I could get with the macro on my phone cam. After I hit them with the canned Black Flag ant spray, they kinda disintegrated. These suckers are tiny. The one on the left measures 15mm head to tail.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

DoomsDave said:


> What was the active ingredient in the ant powder?


Diatomaceous earth


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## pwcopy (Aug 27, 2017)

30 minutes ago, I sent the photos to an entomologist in the Department of Plant, Soil and Microbial Sciences at Michigan State University and got this reply. (Good news!!!)

"They look like your basic winged wood ant aka field ant aka yard ant (Hymenoptera: Formicidae: Formini ). 

Yard or field ants belong to a group of ants known as formini ants. Other members of this group include carpenter ants (_Camponotus_ spp.), wood ants (_Formica_ spp.) and mound ants (_Formica_ spp.) These are 'outdoor' ants and are not normally found in homes. Yard ants live in galleries in the soil but they do not construct the large mounds that their cousins do, nor do they chew up wood like their other cousins do. They are just your basic, garden variety ants that do no harm whatsoever. In fact, these ants are beneficial in that they feed on many of the insect pests that live in our yards and gardens. They can be difficult to control in yards due to their subterranean habits and large colony size."

I know I have multiple nests of these in my yard, but I leave them alone and have never seen a winged swarm. All the storm water in my town drains to near my house, where the city maintains a pumping station to pump it elsewhere. One time the station broke down and I had a foot of water in the front yard. Thousands of bubbles floated to the top all over the yard, signaling the flooding of many subterranean dwellings. Didn't see the nests for awhile after that, but the ants returned eventually. Thanks again for offering your help!


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

pwcopy said:


> 30 minutes ago, I sent the photos to an entomologist in the Department of Plant, Soil and Microbial Sciences at Michigan State University and got this reply. (Good news!!!)
> 
> "They look like your basic winged wood ant aka field ant aka yard ant (Hymenoptera: Formicidae: Formini ).
> 
> ...


Great!

I certainly learned something! They looked a lot like termites to me.

You might want to do a "reconnaissance" to see if you have termites, too.

After 26 years, you're likely to have some. Maybe look around the foundation of your house and other buildings and see if there's any "tubes" like in my first picture. If there are, and you're lucky you can nip them in the bud and avoid bad damage. If you look and there aren't any, even better!

Any further questions, ask!


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