# New Recessed LED Lights are causing all sorts of problems



## dmxtothemax (Oct 26, 2010)

sounds like a neutral fault ?
That would explain hot indications on the tester
But nothing working !


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## jreagan (Feb 20, 2015)

What's the voltage?

Can you have more than one dimmer in a 3-way (or 4-way) setup?


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## Fishbulb28 (Jul 8, 2016)

> Can you have more than one dimmer in a 3-way (or 4-way) setup?


No. That's the cause of the first problem. Replace one dimmer with a standard 3-way switch.

As for the second problem. you need to investigate the wiring you changed and try your best to trace what goes where. To even start this process you need something to actually measure or detect voltage. For troubleshooting, a non-contact voltage detector is useless at best and more realistically will mislead you every time. It doesn't need to be expensive or complex. Even a $5 neon voltage light is infinitely more useful to you than a NCVT.


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## jeffmattero76 (Jan 4, 2016)

You lost your neutral between the last light and the first non working receptacle. I suggest taking the dimmers out of the equation by temporarily replacing them with regular 3way switches. Second, i am not sure you can have two dimmers in that setup. 

Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk


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## MrElectricianTV (Nov 13, 2014)

TheObserver said:


> Hey guys-
> 
> So before I get too far into this I know I will catch some hate for this and want to preface that I will have my electrician buddy look at this before completing the project but want to see if I can figure this out before I call him over.
> 
> ...


in order to have two dimmers on a three way set-up the dimmers need to be the digital type. Check out the Lutron Maestro series. Using two standard 3-way dimmers does not work well, one of them needs to be a standard 3-way switch.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

I will agree with what others have said about using only one dimmer switch. I also agree with what others have said about checking the connections of the work you have done.
I will disagree with what has been said about the no contact voltage sensors.

They are a fine and convenient tool but you have to know how to use them. There is a magnetic field surrounding a conductor with a current on it. The NC voltage sensor senses the field. It simply tell you whether or not there is a current on the conductor. Nothing more. It doesn't tell you the voltage or the amperage, just that there is a voltage on the conductor. It is very sensitive. It may be telling you that you have 120 volts on the wire or it my be telling you that you have 5 volts.

Of course you must separate the wires far enough from each other to know which wire you are testing. The magnetic field surrounds the wire and extends outward. I'm not sure but I think how far out depends o the amperage.

So much for my rant, back to your problem. Since the outlets are on the circuit before the stair lights, I doubts that its the wiring at the light switches.

Suggest that you pull the outlets and check to see if they were wired using the quick connect holes in the back. If so rewire using the screw terminals. Use of the quick connect holes is known to produce bad connections after a period of time. Usually about 10 years, and those bad connections seem to show up at times like this, just to confuse you.


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## jeffmattero76 (Jan 4, 2016)

Is there any possibility that you have a "shared neutral" in either switchbox? If you turn off the breaker supplying these new lights, are there any hot wires showing as hot in either switchbox? If the answer is yes, then post back. My explanation below assumes no shared neutral in either box.

To diagnose, i would suggest the following. Unhook all wires from both dimmers and from each other. Turn the breaker back on and test all wires in both switchboxes for hot. I would recommend a neon tester ro do that. Wrap a piece of yellow tape around that to indicate that it is the incoming hot. Connect that wire to the COMMON terminal of the first switch (usually a black screw) after turning the breaker off again. Now we are going to identify which cable carries the travelers. This explanation assumes that you have 14/3 wire running between the switches. At the first switch, tie the black and red wires together under a wirenut. Go to the 2nd switchbox and test between black and red wires to find the pair that shows continuity. Put those wires on the traveler terminals of switch #2. Go back to switchbox 1 and unhook the black and red from each other and put them on the traveler screws on switch 1. At that point you should have a white (that is in the same cable as the yellow taped black) and a white that is in the same cable as the red and black travelers you just identified. Tie those two white neutral wires together. At switch #2 you will have a black and white that lead to the first light. Wrap red tape around that black ( to indicate for future reference that it is the common), and hook that red taped black wire to the COMMON terminal of awotch #2. Connect the remaining two white wires in switchbox 2 together. At that point everything should work correctly.

Post back to let us know.

Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk


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## joe99 (Sep 6, 2012)

TheObserver said:


> I have them on two dimmable Lutron switches.


I'm not an electrician, but I do have a bit of experience with using Lutron 3-way dimmers with LED fixtures.

As someone else pointed out, you can use multiple dimmers if you are using the right dimmers, such as the Lutron Maestro. In that set up I believe there is a "master" switch and a "slave" or accessory switch. If that's the model you are using, and you have them installed correctly per Lutron's directions, that's not the problem.

While I do like them, I have found the Lutron digital switches to be very delicate. You will notice on the directions that they state to turn off all power when doing anything but changing a bulb. This is not only a safety issue for you, it is a safety issue for the switch. I have learned to turn off power even when changing a lightbulb for these switches. It seems the slightest thing can blow out the switch (I have lost at least one switch due to a power failure - there must have been a surge when the power was restored - only the Maestro switch was affected). 

On some of these digital switches there is also a "reset" tab. You need to pull that out to set up the switch. See the instruction sheet for the exact procedure.

If you aren't using the Lutron Maestro switches, ignore the above. If you are, it is possible the above may apply.


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## TheObserver (Jan 3, 2015)

Hey guys. 

Wow - thanks for the awesome replies. I will post a few responses, then tell you what I found.

1. The dimmer switch was a huge "duh" for me. I was inspired by the digital duo set dimmers (that came with a master and slave) but at the last minute got a better deal on Amazon for what I thought was the same thing but it wasn't!Long story short I installed a new regular switch and no more flickering. Lights still buzz even with the recommended dimer (Lutron, Leviton both for LED lights.. no go!) 

2. Then I focussed in on the problem of my dinning room light not working, prior to the new lights and switches that are. What did I find?! A whole lot of problems!:vs_mad:
The switch prior to the new light work is definitely the problem switch. I traced it back and found that prior to that switch is nothing it goes directly to the breaker box. The two receptacle that wont working? Found those wired to the dinning room light, that's wired to the problem switch. The main wired running from the break box to the switch had the metal conduit broken in half, then repaired by electric tape... that was melting.... :vs_no_no_no:
The switch box had the dinning room light(fan) wires coming in with the yellow wire mixed with the neutrals? That entire wad of wires was wrapped in electric tape and was melting and gooey. 
Instead of posting on there and problem solving the old wires conundrum I took my 100ft of new wire and rewired everything! Now we got new plastic electric boxes, we got ground going to be breaker boxes, we don't have melting electric tape and everything is new! 

My wife has been running a kiln for 3 days so I haven't been able to do any of the breaker box work and plug it all in but will report back. The diagram of the home looks like this if anyone is interested: 










Thanks again. If you guys have anymore questions or suggestions please let me know. I will be working on wiring the switches tonight. I think it should be pretty straight forward. I would love a second opinion on the main switch since it will be a dimmer controlling the NEW dinning room light (NO more fan). but then also splicing of to a 3-way switch for the upstairs. 

Thanks, 
-i


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