# Can I remove this wall under my stairs? With pictures



## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

We're in the process of doing an overhaul to the basement. I'd like to remove the area under the stairs and open it up. There is a half bath in the next room and I'd like to put a mini bar under the stairs, tieing into the existing plumbing to do so. 

Can this be done? Is it structural? I've seen areas under stairs opened up in other homes, I'm just wondering if it's a pretty standard thing to remove.

My end goal is something like this: http://www.thehouseface.com/how-to-set-up-mini-bar-under-stairs/practical-minibar-under-stairs/


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Part of it may well be load bearing, but maybe not.

Depends on how it's framed up.


Worst case you could open up *most* of the wall, leaving the corner "post" if it is bearing a load.

Can't tell until you open it all up.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Is the inside of the closet open ? We need to see the structure---Stairs are usually free standing--but there are exceptions---before any one can really help---we need to see the framing----


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

Inside the door is just a closet/open area. Whoever built these drywalled inside on both sides too.

These are the only other 3 photos I took on my phone. I'll try and get some more in the morning if need be.


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## ktkelly (Apr 7, 2007)

Part of it may well be load bearing, but maybe not.

Depends on how it's framed up.


Worst case you could open up *most* of the wall, leaving the corner "post" if it is bearing a load.








Can't really tell until you open things up though.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

Ok, I'll rip off the drywall in the morning.

On a side note, what are the chances that it _is_ load bearing?


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

I'd wager a buck it's not, but then I wouldn't really miss a buck .....

you'll know as soon as it's opened up, makes you think of waiting on Christmas morning as a kid

good luck!


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

If you remove that register on the ceiling at the landing, you can probably tell if the last floor joist was doubled or not. If it was doubled (2 plys total 3" thickness) then the wall is probably not load bearing. I would match the dollar wager that this is not a load bearing wall.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

sixeightten said:


> If you remove that register on the ceiling at the landing, you can probably tell if the last floor joist was doubled or not.


I'm not sure what this means


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

the thing circled in your photo


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I'll put another dollar on that bet----Open it up===I think you are going to find that the closet can be removed---


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

big money riding on this ....


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## GBrackins (Apr 26, 2012)

I'll probably win more than I did on Powerball last night


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## Spot on (Apr 13, 2013)

I would not feel comfortable removing the wall supporting the outside stringer, escpecially considering there is not a stringer in the middle. I believe that a even a fat 10 year old could fracture that by jumping on the far outside edge... that is just me though.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm back. Here is what's under the register 


http://min.us/lGqhIfk8OiIPn


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The link didn't work for me. Removing the wall will also depend on how the outside stringer is cut and from what. If it is cut from a 2X10 the stringer will be weak.

If that is the outside stringer and not a skirt board showing on the outside of the wall you should be safe.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

that wall you want to remove is load bearing to the extent of holding up the stairs. If you were to remove a five year old could cause the stairs to fail. also were the door is that is the heel of the stairs you could remove that if you want to but it will remove the strength of the stairs. But hey do what you want to do I am not willing to bet a plug nickel on that.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

This is one of those posts that needs a poll.....(pun intended)

"Space Under The Stairs"

1. Is load bearing.

2. Is NOT load bearing.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

These are the things that are hard to tell by a few pics on the internet, really need someone on site to look at it.


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## Spot on (Apr 13, 2013)

Nailbags said:


> that wall you want to remove is load bearing to the extent of holding up the stairs. If you were to remove a five year old could cause the stairs to fail.


I agree with this guy, but I still say that it would take at least a 10 year old to break them, but what do I know, im not a child obesity expert.
Also, all stair openings should have doubled up joists like yours does.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

one cut said:


> I would not feel comfortable removing the wall supporting the outside stringer, escpecially considering there is not a stringer in the middle. I believe that a even a fat 10 year old could fracture that by jumping on the far outside edge... that is just me though.


 
Agree with everyone as to opening it up... and a doubled joist would be a good indicator that it was framed as independent stair case.

Most cases those prebuilt stairs are self supporting, but they are not over engineered either. It is common in production built homes to close that in as a closet and usually not structurally supporting.

If you had a double stringer/center stringer I'd feel more confident... plus you'll want to see how it's hung off the top header.... should be good simpson adjustable hanger against doubled header.

Is your's a model home that others have opened up that area.... that should tell you as to how good your stair performance would be.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

Looks like from the pic that you have a doubler, or possibly a tripler there. Remove the drywall under the stairs and see if there is a doubler hanging perpendicular to that one. All signs are pointing to that not holding up the floor. It probably is helping support the outside stair stringer, but that can be beefed up pretty simply. Those stairs aren't going anywhere.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Simply because that is not a staircase with one long, continuous stringer all the way down to the floor, I would be inclined to believe that angled wall just might be part of the structure supporting the stairs in that area.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

Here's the stud wall in the centre of the house if that helps. 

I fully intend on removing the drywall, I just need a plan B if I can't put a bar under it.


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## sixeightten (Feb 10, 2009)

Willie:

I disagree. You can see an earlier pic that shows the bottom portion is just a stacked landing. It is possible that maybe a single or double vertical 2x4 may need left in to help with the outside stringer. I think once some more drywall comes off, things will be really obvious. I anticipate being correct on all counts!:yes:


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Can't know what is what until drywall is removed.
Someone onsite could strategically remove small squares of drywall to inspect.
Need to see the ceiling corner where the stairs meet the floor upstairs. if the joists beside the opening and across the head of the stairs are doubled or tripled there is a good chance that the opening does not need the wall for support. The stringer can be beefed up.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

sixeightten said:


> Willie:
> 
> I disagree. You can see an earlier pic that shows the bottom portion is just a stacked landing. It is possible that maybe a single or double vertical 2x4 may need left in to help with the outside stringer. I think once some more drywall comes off, things will be really obvious. I anticipate being correct on all counts!:yes:


I dunno. If you look carefully at the second (last) photograph in Post #1, you will see right down at the bottom that you can see about 6" of the edge of the largest box... the one the stringers should be sitting on... There is only about 1-1/2" under the stringer/s. (And the same with everything above that box.)

That would suggest that there could be at least a partial wall built there to rest the bottom/s of the stringer/s upon..... and I would guess that such a wall would extend out toward the room to become the lower beginning portion of the angle wall... probably tied into it as it runs on upward under the outside stringer.

Of course it is entirely possible that someone only supported a slim 1-1/2" at the bottom of those stringers, and they have been ever so lucky all these years.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

RCGA...... Can you get a measurement from the outside drywall side of the door, back to the short wall about 6 feet back inside? If so, compare that to the same measurement taken OUTSIDE, from the door wall edge to the bottom end of the stringer.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

Ok, I'm back after a work trip to the US

Here's a pic from inside the closet with the drywall removed. Load bearing or no?


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

The side wall is load bearing as the turn at the bottom of the stairs needs support.

Also the studding at the left of the door in the pic may/may not be load bearing.
The wall in the basement may carry the load from this point down into the basement.

Really the only way to know for sure is to have someone come look at it in person.


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## RCGA (Mar 13, 2013)

The wall to the left is the wall in question (from post #29). 

If it is load bearing, is there a way to reinforce it at the top and maybe at the bottom in order to remove the wall? I'd really like to find a way to be able to open this up.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Yes if it is load bearing there are ways to support it top and bottom.
How depends on the structure of the floor and beams/walls in basement.
someone onsite could make these evaluations fairly quickly.


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## wkearney99 (Apr 8, 2009)

What's the room look like upstairs? Is there another set of stairs on top of this flight?

And in your second picture of the framing, that was taken from an adjacent room and is showing the framing headed toward the stairs? And you measured properly to be sure which were the ones leading to the stairs?

Me, I hate stacked landings with steps like that. If there was enough room upstairs I'd move the steps back a few and put in proper steps, not those turned ones. But that would depend on how the room above would be affected.

If you're willing to open the basement ceiling you could always have the structure under there re-framed to allow the space below not have a support column. But that would depend on whether you could sister on new joists effectively. If there's existing plumbing or electrical running through there then the job gets more complicated.


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