# Drywall finishing- How to get a flat butt joint with fiberglass mesh tape



## joecaption

Why not just use paper and not have to deal with it?


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## Sir MixAlot

joecaption said:


> Why not just use paper and not have to deal with it?


Deal with what? 

I think a Do it yourselfer is more apt to get a flat butt joint with fiber tape then paper tape (ie: not having to bed the tape. That's usually what causes the hump right off the get go).


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## bradleyshome

Some people are too lazy to do the job right haha Looks good Sir MixAlot


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## KevinEF7

Thats a ton of mud, almost the entire ceiling.

I got the impression you have have switched muds after first coat? Any reason or preference? I usually use the powder and mix myself, havent had good luck so far with paper tape


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## Chrisathome

Ive recently starting doing drywall in my basement, I use the self adhesive mesh tape. At first it was hard to get the butt joints to not be visible but i learned how to make it go away by using a technique like yours. Thanks for the helpful video!


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## Sir MixAlot

KevinEF7 said:


> Thats a ton of mud, almost the entire ceiling.
> 
> I got the impression you have have switched muds after first coat? Any reason or preference? I usually use the powder and mix myself, havent had good luck so far with paper tape


LOL... I Like my butt joints flat!

Yes, I always use quickset joint compound (powder form) for the first coat of mud over fiberglass mesh tape (per manufacture instructions). Then, for the next two coats I used USG all purpose joint compound. The AP must skims smoother and sans much easier. That's why I like to use it for the final coats. :thumbsup:


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## Gymschu

Sir Mixalot, where have you been? Must be pretty busy down there in the Sunshine State!


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## Sir MixAlot

Gymschu said:


> Sir Mixalot, where have you been? Must be pretty busy down there in the Sunshine State!


Yes I have. Been on a large custom condo renovation for the last 5 months. Been doing lot's of interesting stuff from curved ceilings to my favorite, inset baseboards using reveal beads and cement board.


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## jeffnc

OK that's nice, but to be fair it's not possible to get flat butt joints with any standard method. The only way to get a flat butt joint is to do back blocking. It's always seemed to me that most DIYers use mesh tape for the convenience, which it seems to me is negated by using a setting compound. But I suppose if you hate paper tape that much, it's probably worth it to a DIYer to use setting compound with mesh. I think FibaFuse would be the best of both worlds of course.


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## Sir MixAlot

jeffnc said:


> OK that's nice, but to be fair it's not possible to get flat butt joints with any standard method. The only way to get a flat butt joint is to do back blocking. It's always seemed to me that most DIYers use mesh tape for the convenience, which it seems to me is negated by using a setting compound. But I suppose if you hate paper tape that much, it's probably worth it to a DIYer to use setting compound with mesh. I think FibaFuse would be the best of both worlds of course.


Flat as in no hump...:thumbsup:
To be fair, even using back blocking it's not "flat".:no:
You still have the build up of tape and joint compound on top of the drywall seams. It's no different than attaching to a framing member. Unless you also manually taper the edges of the two butts. 

In my opinion it is much easier for a DIYer to get an "acceptable" butt joint using fiberglass mesh tape than it would bedding and applying paper tape.:yes:


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## jeffnc

Yes, what we're talking about is "acceptable" more so with one technique than another. There is always a "hump" with standard butt seams, but if you keep it low and spread it out wide, it can be virtually invisible.

The reason you can literally eliminate the hump with back blocking is because it's not done over a stud - you're receding the drywall backward slightly so it's concave, and the buildup of tape and compound does not make it convex, that's why it's different than attaching to a framing member. With a standard seam all you can do is reduce the hump and spread it out so it's difficult to see.

Here's a commercially made one, you can also make your own in different ways.


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## jeffnc

Sir MixAlot said:


> In my opinion it is much easier for a DIYer to get an "acceptable" butt joint using fiberglass mesh tape than it would bedding and applying paper tape.:yes:


That's true, but I still think FibaFuse would be better still.

Using a commercially made back blocker would have the following advantages for a DIYer:

- Usually don't have to cut the drywall to fit on a stud - just install it wherever the drywall ends inside a stud bay. Saves time by eliminating a lot of cuts (the back blocker takes room so sometimes you'll still have to cut.)

- No hump to try to smooth out wide since it turns butt joints into tapered joints.

- No concerns about having just a sliver of a stud space to screw the drywall to, and having the screws crush the edge of the drywall.

- They can use paper tape if they want to with no worry about the buildup creating a big hump.

The downside is cost, but they could make their own version for less.

There are occasionally critical areas where a convex butt seam is not acceptable, no matter how skillfully tapered. For example if some sort of desktop, shelf or counter needed to go against a wall and be perfectly flat against the wall. A back blocker is the only way to get a seam truly flat.


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## Sir MixAlot

jeffnc said:


> Yes, what we're talking about is "acceptable" more so with one technique than another. There is always a "hump" with standard butt seams, but if you keep it low and spread it out wide, it can be virtually invisible.
> 
> The reason you can literally eliminate the hump with back blocking is because it's not done over a stud - you're receding the drywall backward slightly so it's concave, and the buildup of tape and compound does not make it convex, that's why it's different than attaching to a framing member. With a standard seam all you can do is reduce the hump and spread it out so it's difficult to see.
> 
> Here's a commercially made one, you can also make your own in different ways.


That's what I said. Not very DIY though. :no:
Which is why I posted this video on a DIY site. :thumbsup:


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## jeffnc

It's pretty easy to make DIY back blockers. It's shown at the bottom of Step 2 in this series.
http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/drywall/hanging/butt-joints/

That's the only way to get a flat butt joint. As I mentioned above, back blocking has a lot of benefits for the DIYer, and if you make your own, even the cost factor isn't an issue. IMO, homemade back blocking, along with FibaFuse and premixed joint compound, is the easiest way for a DIYer to get good results. Stronger then mesh tape, no bubbling or embedding of paper tape, no powder to mix up (and then have to clean the mixer and bucket), and a perfectly flat joint with no fuss.


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## Sir MixAlot

jeffnc said:


> It's pretty easy to make DIY back blockers. It's shown at the bottom of Step 2 in this series.
> http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/drywall/hanging/butt-joints/
> 
> That's the only way to get a flat butt joint. As I mentioned above, back blocking has a lot of benefits for the DIYer, and if you make your own, even the cost factor isn't an issue. IMO, homemade back blocking, along with FibaFuse and premixed joint compound, is the easiest way for a DIYer to get good results. Stronger then mesh tape, no bubbling or embedding of paper tape, no powder to mix up (and then have to clean the mixer and bucket), and a perfectly flat joint with no fuss.


Maybe easy for you but making homemade butt boards? 
Using fibafuse is great but it still needs to be bedded and that is where the problem lies for a DIYer. Then there's a hump. Next they try and sand it out and sand right through the Fibafuse because it's on to thick of a bed. So any strength advantage is completely lost.

Fiberglass mesh is just easier to work with and more readily available for the average DIYer. IMO


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## jeffnc

Seriously? Show me an easier DIY project than this!
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx

(By the way, I wouldn't use 1/16" poster board or hardboard, I'd use 1/8".)

FibaFuse doesn't need to be bedded since compound goes right through it. It's easier if you do, but you don't have to. But even if you do, it can squish down tighter than paper because, like I said, compound goes right through it.

And since you mentioned sanding, that's actually one of the reasons I prefer FibaFuse, and that's especially true for DIYers. Mesh sands horribly. Basically doesn't sand once you get down to it. FibaFuse on the other hand will actually sand down, unlike mesh which won't sand and leaves mesh marks in the final paint job, or like paper which just fuzzes causing different problems in the final paint job.

I can only assume you're so used to using paper and mesh and so good with it that you haven't used FibaFuse much or at all. It is the way forward for DIYers (and pros too for that matter). Myron Ferguson likes it.





As you can see he's first applying a base coat, but you don't have to. What I sometimes do is just put a couple quick dabs of compound on the joint just so the FibaFuse has something to stick to, and then apply compound over the tape, basically how you'd install mesh tape, but mesh tape is self adhesive and FibaFuse isn't so you have to give it a little something stick to while you compound over it.


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## Sir MixAlot

jeffnc said:


> Seriously? Show me an easier DIY project than this!
> http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx
> 
> (By the way, I wouldn't use 1/16" poster board or hardboard, I'd use 1/8".)
> 
> FibaFuse doesn't need to be bedded since compound goes right through it. It's easier if you do, but you don't have to. But even if you do, it can squish down tighter than paper because, like I said, compound goes right through it.
> 
> And since you mentioned sanding, that's actually one of the reasons I prefer FibaFuse, and that's especially true for DIYers. Mesh sands horribly. Basically doesn't sand once you get down to it. FibaFuse on the other hand will actually sand down, unlike mesh which won't sand and leaves mesh marks in the final paint job, or like paper which just fuzzes causing different problems in the final paint job.
> 
> I can only assume you're so used to using paper and mesh and so good with it that you haven't used FibaFuse much or at all. It is the way forward for DIYers (and pros too for that matter). Myron Ferguson likes it.
> 
> As you can see he's first applying a base coat, but you don't have to. What I sometimes do is just put a couple quick dabs of compound on the joint just so the FibaFuse has something to stick to, and then apply compound over the tape, basically how you'd install mesh tape, but mesh tape is self adhesive and FibaFuse isn't so you have to give it a little something stick to while you compound over it.


Like I said I like FibaFuse and I've used plenty of Butt boards. 

I have an idea-> This is "Super Super Easy" for you to do too. :thumbup:

How about you make a video of the whole process of making butt boards and using FibaFuse on a butt joint > Upload it to Youtube > Start a new thread and embed your video in the "How to" section here on the DIY forum.


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## jeffnc

Didn't mean to steal your thunder SirMix, just discussing "flat" vs. "decreasing the hump as much as possible." If you want flat, you gotta use butt boards. After that it's a question of what pros and cons you want. Mixing setting compound and cutting drywall on a stud vs. making a butt board.


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## Sir MixAlot

jeffnc said:


> Didn't mean to steal your thunder SirMix, just discussing "flat" vs. "decreasing the hump as much as possible." If you want flat, you gotta use butt boards. After that it's a question of what pros and cons you want. Mixing setting compound and cutting drywall on a stud vs. making a butt board.


No biggie. :vs_shake:

I still think it's easier for a DIYer to use fiberglass mesh drywall tape and mix the first coat a setting type compound (by hand or cordless drill).

Especially with my videos. :icon_cheesygrin:


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