# How should I flatten backyard lawn?



## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

So I have a roughly 1/4 acre rear lawn that has some little hills that I'd like to make nice and flat. To note, the existing grade of the yard isn't a problem and I'm doing this purely for cosmetic/my personal preference to have a nice flat area to play on for myself and the kids. I won't be disturbing the existing grade within 10' of the house and deck. The "hills" are only about 2-3' high at most and I'd like to spread the slope over a larger area, say 20-30'. Can anyone comment on the "right way" to do this?

The existing grass has a good amount of weeds and I'm undecided on whether I want to keep it or just resod. I called up the local tool rental places and it costs about $400 to rent a bobcat/skid steer for a day with delivery and pickup. I was thinking the skid steer would be the best thing for this sort of job. I've never operated one before but I've asked a friend and he said it's not too bad. Would it be hard to flatten parts of the yard with a skid steer? I don't need fill dirt, and can just cut into the existing hill and remove the dirt and dump it in the very back of the yard. So the question is what are the proper steps? Should I rent a sod cutter and remove the sod/topsoil first or can I just goto town with the skid steer and reseed/sod afterwards? After resloping would I need to put down a good layer of topsoil for the new sod besides just starter fertilizer?

I will take some pictures later and post them up trying to show the flattening/grading change I'm trying to do. If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. I will call a couple landscaping companies to get quotes but I know I'm going to choke at their prices and end up wanting to just do it myself. I figured mid-late Sept would be ideal for this sort of project since the soil won't be as hard/dry and it'd be a good time to grow new grass before winter. Again, I'm all ears. Thanks!


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Rule of thumb is if your yard is 50% or more weeds and/or undesired grasses, it's best to kill it all and start over. If that's the case, I'd get out the RoundUp and start spraying. Whether you need just a tiller or a skid steer I don't know without being able to see the yard.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

stick\shift said:


> Rule of thumb is if your yard is 50% or more weeds and/or undesired grasses, it's best to kill it all and start over. If that's the case, I'd get out the RoundUp and start spraying. Whether you need just a tiller or a skid steer I don't know without being able to see the yard.


Thanks for the response stickshift. Ya I've been doing a lot of reading about lawn care recently and I've heard that 50/50 rule. I think it's about 50/50, maybe even more grass than weed since I've been trying to save it since we bought the house about a year ago. I've been using Scotts stuff for the past year but think I'm going to switch over to Milorganite (4 applications a year) + a pre-emergent and using a sprayer for spot spraying weeds.

Regarding the regrading/flattening, I really think it's simply too big a job for a tiller. I will snap some pictures when I get home later, but it would be absolutely brutal and take forever I'd imagine to do by hand. Maybe a bit of the final grading I would do by hand if I could get it good enough with the skid steer, but I'm pretty sure no one would opt to do it by hand since it's a pretty large area I'd be looking to regrade. If I had to guess I'd say about 30'x30', probably even larger. I'll get those pics up later so you can see what I mean (I apologize for not snapping pics before starting the thread).


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I think that I would till it up well, this makes your soil a topsoil, with plenty of organics in it.

I worry that if you kill the stuff with Round-up that it will be hard to grow new sod on it.

Then do leveling, and grading, then SOD.


ED


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

You need to figure out how much good topsoil you have. Around here we have mostly clay, and then (in a newer subdivision) builder will put maybe an inch of good topsoil on top. (Older homes seem to have a lot more topsoil in the yards.) You don't want to be scraping clay to the top. 

The other thing is that perfectly flat is likely not ideal. You should have a plan on where the water is going to drain when it rains hard. And the answer starts with "away from the house", but needs a more complete answer than that. Having said that, if you live in a city, there may be bylaws restricting you from changing how rainwater drains from your property.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

You can rent attachments for the skid/steer, other than a bucket. 

Tillers, hoes, jackhammers, etc.

ED


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

I found some old pics of when we bought the house.. I'll get some good ones later showing the grading better. In the picture showing the full rear of the house, you can see the slight grade (the small hill I want to cut down and flatten). There's a small hill that slopes down to an area that extends ~10' past the end of the deck. I wanted to flatten the area from that point to around where the big tree closest to the house is still standing (it was cut down).

Also, all the big trees are gone and stumps were removed.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

SPS-1 said:


> You need to figure out how much good topsoil you have. Around here we have mostly clay, and then (in a newer subdivision) builder will put maybe an inch of good topsoil on top. (Older homes seem to have a lot more topsoil in the yards.) You don't want to be scraping clay to the top.


Gotcha.. so I need some minimum thickness of topsoil for grass to grow on.. Thanks that's what I was afraid of/thinking and something I'll have to plan for.



> The other thing is that perfectly flat is likely not ideal. You should have a plan on where the water is going to drain when it rains hard. And the answer starts with "away from the house", but needs a more complete answer than that. Having said that, if you live in a city, there may be bylaws restricting you from changing how rainwater drains from your property.


Yep, I hear you completely. I specifically said flat, not level because I understand I can't make it level. I plan on keep a grade/slope where the hill exists, I'd just like it flat with a steady grade rather than a hill. I'm not changing the existing grade close to the house or how water drains away from the house. Currently it drains away on the other side of the yard which slopes away from the house, and I don't plan on touching that area. I'm just looking to touch the one side of the yard (same side as the shed) and flatten it.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Ok, I have attached some pictures in a previous post trying to show the grade. I did some crappy editing with paint but you should get an idea. I will snap some ground level shot later to show the grade from pictures better.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

de-nagorg said:


> You can rent attachments for the skid/steer, other than a bucket.
> 
> Tillers, hoes, jackhammers, etc.
> 
> ED


Ed, Thanks I have seen different attachments but if I could do it all (mostly) with a bucket that'd be great and keep things a little simpler. I do have a couple tillers at my disposal, but was thinking that hopefully the bucket would work for the grading. The "plan" is to use the bucket to "cut in" to the hill and remove/move some of the soil, and then go backwards in reverse and use the underside of the bucket to flatten the soil. It looks easy on youtube.. :biggrin2:


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> I worry that if you kill the stuff with Round-up that it will be hard to grow new sod on it


Not an issue with regular 2% glyophosphate RoundUp or similar, as this ingredient has to be absorbed by an actively growing plant and has no residual properties if sod is laid a couple weeks later (two weeks is generally the minimum time you allow it to work before proceeding).

There are products with residual properties but I would not use one in this case either.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I have done that a couple of times where I sprayed everything with Roundup. Waited a couple of weeks and again sprayed anything that still looked green. And planted sod a couple of weeks later. No issues.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Bucket is used to move material and isn't really the best attachment to get a finished grade. It can be used, but unless you have an experienced operator, look into getting a land plane attachment. The land plane will cut the highs and deposit it in the lows. Ditto on adding suitable top soil at the end.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> but unless you have an experienced operator,


That's really the key to getting the job done. A pro can get it done quickly, they make it look simple.

Some people have trouble with them while attempting to learn to use one, and make things worse than the original state. 

I'd get a quote from a couple of pros and see how they compare to the rental price.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I agree that a bucket likely won't do a great job for you. As mentioned, they're designed to move loose material. Most don't have much of a 'dig depth' (depth below 'tractor level'), and although you could try to knock off the high points, it's harder than you think. A rig with drag plow ("land plane"?) or a tiller will loosen up the soil and allows you to push it around where you want it with the bucket.


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## mathmonger (Dec 27, 2012)

I have a similar problem with my yard. I did some research. There is a tractor attachment called a "box blade" that is designed to do exactly what you are trying to accomplish. I haven't tried it, but it seems like just the thing. 

http://incomingbytes.com/landscaping/how-to-use-a-box-blade-to-level-your-yard/

A tiller, in my experience, will make everything loose and then it will settle unevenly and just be all lumpy again.


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

Would filling in the low spots instead of taking out the high spots be possible? I can't see the bad spots in the pictures very well to tell how bad it really is


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

Would a Harley rake help in your situation, here's a link.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Filling in low spots isn't an option as that would affect the grading closer to the house where the low section is. I snapped a couple pictures from right in front of the deck facing the back lot. It's hard to see the grading but you can get an idea how it slopes from the pictures since I tried the hold the camera level.

Pictures are left to right, top to bottom.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Regarding equipment.. I don't doubt there are better options besides a skid steer but I'm skeptical that many tool rental places would have them available. I can certainly ask. I also don't have a tractor so tow behind options aren't a good option for me.

Ultimately I'll either rent the skid loader or just hire someone to do the flattening part for me (shouldn't be much more than ~$1k I'd imagine). At this point I'm leaning towards hiring someone to do the flattening with a skid loader as it's the more difficult job. I guess I'd need to rent a sod cutter or buy new sod to lay down afterwards. That's certainly DIYable just involves a lot of manual labor.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

I guess it depends on your local availability but up here most rent-alls and even box stores rent tractors as well as skid steers. The rental availability of attachments and implements depends on local demand. I live in farm country so renting this type of stuff either from a rent-all or a willing farmer with some time is relatively easy.

You might as well resign yourself to re-sodding or re-seeding. Unless your lawn is golf-course quality it won't come up well and a skid steer or tractor will chew it up.


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## rygar (Mar 20, 2011)

i have an identical problem. from what ive seen, using a tiller and a york rake along with a lawn roller seem to work. thoughts on this


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

That's a nice looking back yard. Before you go changing the grade, take into consideration the roots of the large trees. If you are lowering the grade in that area, it may expose the roots, which is more of a problem than what you think you have now.
I would think, with what you want to do, it would be about a $7k dollar job.


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## ryansdiydad (Aug 16, 2015)

I had my front, side, and back yard graded and seeded/blanketed for $3k... might depend on where you are.. 

my biggest hassle in work like this is often disposal of the sod/clay/crappy dirt that i dig up... there always ends up being more of it than I anticipated...


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

rygar said:


> i have an identical problem. from what ive seen, using a tiller and a york rake along with a lawn roller seem to work. thoughts on this


I'd say it all depends on the size of the area. The area I'm thinking about regarding is probably a good ~1k sq ft. I imagine that would be pretty brutal to do with a tiller. If you have a tractor with some attachments it's probably def doable.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

ZTMAN said:


> That's a nice looking back yard. Before you go changing the grade, take into consideration the roots of the large trees. If you are lowering the grade in that area, it may expose the roots, which is more of a problem than what you think you have now.
> I would think, with what you want to do, it would be about a $7k dollar job.


Thx, and ya I've definitely thought about the roots. Fortunately I'm not looking to cut into the grade too close to the old trees, but I was planning on renting a stump grinder as needed and grinding down some remaining roots that the tree removal guys didn't all get when they removed the trees. Stump removal isn't too hard. I can rent one for $150/day or less I believe, and they aren't too hard to operate. They were some very large oaks trees removed so I'm sure I'll run into some roots. Thx for the heads up. 

Ya, $7k is too darn much for what I'm willing to pay. I'm still talking to some friends to see what they say regarding the skid steer. Maybe I can get someone to come over and operate the skid steer and pay them a decent sum to do the grading. Worst case I'll just delay the project a couple years till I have more time to tackle it. Good thing is it's no rush.


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> I'm doing this purely for cosmetic/my personal preference to have a nice flat area to play on for myself and the kids.


That's exactly how my backyard started out.



NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> Worst case I'll just delay the project a couple years till I have more time to tackle it. Good thing is it's no rush.


Still need to level the yard now it's for the grandkids.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

47_47 said:


> Still need to level the yard now it's for the grandkids.


Ha, no grandkids. We got a 9 month old and almost 2.5yr old so my time to escape from watching them and play/flatten the yard is limited. :biggrin2: If I could get a couple weekends to not deal with the kids I think I could get it done, but no such luck..


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## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

NewHomeDIYGuy said:


> Ha, no grandkids. We got a 9 month old and almost 2.5yr old so my time to escape from watching them and play/flatten the yard is limited. :biggrin2: If I could get a couple weekends to not deal with the kids I think I could get it done, but no such luck..


That's what I thought too. They grow up so darn fast. Good luck and have fun with them.


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

If you rent a skid steer, particularly a wheeled machine with a bucket, and try to do this on your own . . . you are going to make a very big muddy mess of what is currently a pretty good looking lawn. Wheeled bobcats are pretty brutal on lawns when they make turns. Buckets are great for moving loose material, but it takes a fair amount of skill to use one to cut down hills and make a nice looking surface.

My advice would be to not let the "badass" factor of renting a bobcat and having a go at it on your own lure you in. It sounds way cooler in your head than it will be about 30 minutes in. Things looks pretty good right now. A first timer in 3,000 lb machine could leave things looking way worse than they started.

Bobcats in general are not well suited to fine grading work, since they are so short. They just sort of follow the contours of the land that is already there. A longer piece of equipment is better able to cut/fill spots that are out of plane. With something like a harley rake or box blade attachment, a bobcat essentially doubles in length.


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## NewHomeDIYGuy (Nov 23, 2011)

Thanks red92s. 

I have wondered what's better, tires or tracks and I guess you definitely cleared that up. For the record, I'm certainly leaning towards just hiring someone to do the grading. I've asked a couple friends of friends that know how to operate a skid loader well, and they've all told me I could do it (might take an hr to get comfortable), but I'd definitely prefer to just pay someone 800-$1k if it can be done in a few hrs. We'll see, at this point I might just push off the project a year or two so I can dedicate an entire weekend to the project.

Renting the sod cutter and removing the sod I'd imagine will take me the better part of a day. Then the grading, then relaying out all the sod with some top soil. While it does sound like fun to rent the bobcat, I'm also realistic. We'll see what happens. I do feel a little better though hearing from a few people that it isn't that bad.


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