# Pergola - can you believe what the building inspector told me



## Scuba_Dave

Permit for a Pergola? 
Shirley you jest :laughing:
I checked on a permit for a 12'x12' low deck for out back & was told to fugetaboutit. It was only about 16" off the ground at the back. But I did sink 8' 4x4's at each corner to hang pool stuff from. Same deal with a small deck around my hot tub, tha was over 32" off theground but very small - 4' x 10'

I was thinking frost heave would be an issue for attaching to the house, but I guess not in Florida

Pergola doesn't have a roof - just shade "rafters", are you adding one?


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## DecksEtc

I build pergolas all the time and have NEVER needed a permit. As long as the rafters aren't covered, it isn't required where I live/work.

I'd call back and ask for a different inspector.

Very odd.


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## Tom Struble

here in n.j. you need a permit for anything attached to the house

soil analysis and engineer sounds like over kill tho


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## OutToPasture

Hey Italgirl, your big mistake was telling the guy that you would put some kind of cloth on the rafters. :no: you don't tell the inspectors any more than they ask... In 20 years of running my own company I've learned, "the more you talk the more you pay". As for soil testing "8 feet" away from your house  uncle sam wants his cut... You need to understand, every professional involved in your project needs to pay "tribute" to your town/city building office. And where do they get that payment? From you, of course...
Sorry for your troubles
good luck


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## Just Bill

In most metropolitan areas run by Democrats, you need a permit to change your mind. Some of it is well founded for safety, but most is simply a ploy to get money. Now that you have told them, they will be watching. As suggested, scale it back to something simpler(no covering) and try again.


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## Termite

Just Bill said:


> Some of it is well founded for safety, but most is simply a ploy to get money.


You think that permits and inspections are a money-making venture for the City? Uhh, no. For most cities, the costs of running the inspection department are not fully covered by the permit fees and are subsidized by tax dollars. The "they're just trying to get more money" argument holds no water. Sorry. Inspection departments are well-intended in nearly all cases.

Yes, many areas do require a permit for a pergola. That's not abnormal. Requiring soils tests and engineering seems like overkill to me, but there are jursidictions that cover their backsides pretty carefully. Florida is known for its shifty soils and high water table, so I can see that. 

An engineer should cost you nowhere near $2500. You're calling the wrong engineer. If you take them some plans, many engineers will review the structure and stamp the plans for less than $400. If you want them to draw the plans then you're talking more money. Call the HBA (homebuilders association) rep in your area and ask for names of engineers that do small residential jobs.


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## Greg24k

thekctermite said:


> You think that permits and inspections are a money-making venture for the City? Uhh, no. For most cities, the costs of running the inspection department are not fully covered by the permit fees and are subsidized by tax dollars. The "they're just trying to get more money" argument holds no water. Sorry. Inspection departments are well-intended in nearly all cases.
> 
> Yes, many areas do require a permit for a pergola. That's not abnormal. Requiring soils tests and engineering seems like overkill to me, but there are jursidictions that cover their backsides pretty carefully. Florida is known for its shifty soils and high water table, so I can see that.
> 
> An engineer should cost you nowhere near $2500. You're calling the wrong engineer. If you take them some plans, many engineers will review the structure and stamp the plans for less than $400. If you want them to draw the plans then you're talking more money. Call the HBA (homebuilders association) rep in your area and ask for names of engineers that do small residential jobs.


Yes, I agree with you, some towns in NJ require soil test for decks over 500 SQFT, the reason being is they know they have been having structure failures due to soil condition. 

*Italgirl* If you did or doing the pergola yourself, all you have to do is provide them with pergola specs and show how the structure (Posts) will be secured to the ground. There been many incidents where people got hurt and property damages been done due to improper installations. They want to inspect for your own good and believe you me, it is in your best interest.

Good luck :thumbsup:


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## rocketdoctor

*City Goverment is anti building*

Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, rediculous requirements for you to jump over.

California can solve alot of its budget crisis if it dismantled the city building deparments and allowed people to actually do improvements to their homes instead of putting HUGE roadblocks in the way.


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## Scuba_Dave

rocketdoctor said:


> Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, rediculous requirements for you to jump over.
> 
> California can solve alot of its budget crisis if it dismantled the city building deparments and allowed people to actually do improvements to their homes instead of putting HUGE roadblocks in the way.


 
I don't think so
My last house was a firetrap & falling apart due to the HO doing work incorrectly & un-inspected, My inspection/building Dept has been a huge resource for us. They assisted in submitting the paperwork for Conservation permit (required due to stream on property). I haven't had any huge expensive requirements, on the contrary they have helped me save $$


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## SR996

OP: Did you merely call the code enforement office and tell them of your plans? The reason I say this is that the people answering the phone will generally give you boilerplate answers. Based on my limited experience with the local building department, I would draw up a set of plans with dimensions, make an appointment, and then review my intentions with the actual inspector (depends on size of town, I guess). In my case, this discussion accomplished two things: 1) I came accross as a reaonable homeowner trying to do things correctly, and 2) Found out what "correctly" meant. A week later, I came in with finalized plans and a check, and walked out with a permit. Good luck to you.


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## rocketdoctor

It mayhelp to go to the Planning department and ask them what you can do to get around these requirements, might be just changing the size by a few feet. Also like most contractors do in our town of stupid buerocratic building requirements; do the least you have to do and then once you get the inspection signed off change or add on what you wanted originally


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## gma2rjc

> Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, rediculous requirements for you to jump over.


No offense rocketdoctor, but that's very bad advice. I got a permit to have a deck put on my house. The man who built it did an excellent job. The inspector came for the final inspection and found 2 or 3 things he wanted done. One of the things was an easy fix and made the steps a lot safer for the kids. Didn't see a clown suit on the guy and there was no jumping over ridiculous requirements. Best of all, the kids are safer than they would have been.


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## jaros bros.

I live in an area where permits and plans are needed for everything. You can't do anything without a permit or engineered plans. In my neck of the woods, what you are being asked for is standard procedure. You might be able to get a variance.


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## Termite

rocketdoctor said:


> Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, rediculous requirements for you to jump over.
> 
> California can solve alot of its budget crisis if it dismantled the city building deparments and allowed people to actually do improvements to their homes instead of putting HUGE roadblocks in the way.


What a moronic statement. If you want to spew such worthless advice and misinformation, find a forum where it is welcome.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

rocketdoctor said:


> Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, *rediculous* requirements for you to jump over.
> 
> California can solve alot of its budget crisis if it dismantled the city building deparments and allowed people to actually do improvements to their homes instead of putting HUGE roadblocks in the way.


+1 = You are obviously extremely un-informed, and clueless about the entire matter (in other words = you have no idea, what you're talking about).

By the way, the word is spelled "RIDICULOUS", which is what the contents of your post is...tho, I'd rather use a different term (to describe the contents of the post).

DO NOT encourage members on this site to break the law. It is a criminal act. That is what you are encouraging = STUPID & WRONG.


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## rocketdoctor

*I apologize*

I apologize for my previous remarks and bitterness towards City Building departments. Although I have much experience with Bureaucratic, unnecessary and expensive permit requirements I'll keep that to myself and never suggest people to do unlawful things on this site.

I will aslo make sure to spellcheck in the future.:yes:


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## Clutchcargo

Random thought... 
I recently found out that if I send my wife to the building office, she gets permits on the first try without any requested additional documents. She is now the official building office liaison for our project.


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## Scuba_Dave

Clutchcargo said:


> Random thought...
> I recently found out that if I send my wife to the building office, she gets permits on the first try without any requested additional documents. She is now the official building office liaison for our project.


I went to meetings for 4 months trying to get all the paperwork for our addition - stream on property - Conservation approval needed. I couldn't make one meeting, wife went. They still wanted something adjusted, she broke into tears due to stress.....approved :laughing:


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## Wildie

rocketdoctor said:


> I apologize for my previous remarks and bitterness towards City Building departments. Although I have much experience with Bureaucratic, unnecessary and expensive permit requirements I'll keep that to myself and never suggest people to do unlawful things on this site.
> 
> I will aslo make sure to spellcheck in the future.:yes:


 Don't be too hard on yourself! Its natural to respond this way, out of frustration! 
Its been my experience that everybody at city hall is falling all over themselves, trying to cover their butt!
When you understand this, you won't feel so frustrated. Just remember that the person that you are dealing with, may very well agree with you, but their hands are tied, as they must do as they are instructed. 
Remember the old saying, you can't beat city hall!


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## lithium_1330

I'm not surprised about the permit at all. This is probably even more true since you live in Florida. Keep in mind that the entire state of Florida is prone to hurricanes. Thus, most building projects have more stringent codes to follow, more so than other states. 

I assume you know what you're doing and plan to build a pergola that can withstand hurricane force wind (with proper braces, brackets, straps, etc), but imagine countless others out there who will build something on a budget (without common sense) - nail a few pieces of wood together and call it a day. Most people don't want 2x4's flying 30+mph into their windows/cars/doors this hurricane season. 

Good luck... and sorry you have to deal with HOA too.


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## Willie T

I have dealt with building inspectors for all of my professional life - well over 45 years now - and I have found one thing all of them have in common. And that is, just like you and me, they are human. I've run across good ones, bad ones, knowledgeable ones, some with hardly a clue, nice people and real turkeys.

It is absolutely surprising that they seem to have good days and bad days. Just like you and me. They respond to attitudes and disdain in fairly predictable ways. As we often do. If treated decently, they usually react to you in much the same manner.

True, theirs is a job that often seems to require more work from us, and tends to cost us more to comply. But that is not their doing. We elected the government they work for. And we would be the first to call them corrupt if they did not conscientiously carry out their duties. Yet, we ourselves often act dishonestly in dealings with them. Geez! Talk about being self-serving and two-faced.

To tell you the truth, I owe a lot of the advancement and quality that evolved into my construction habits and procedures to one inspector from years ago. I was a fresh foreman, and knew little more than a well informed framer (not much, in the light of an entire job and all the disciplines involved). For 8 or 10 months, he rode me pretty hard. Looked at every square inch of every piece of work we did... sometimes twice.

But he didn't just complain and pick our work apart. He informed, and even took the time to instruct. I learned as much from him as I did from many of my mentors. And one day... I'll never forget that morning... he pulled up to the job. I believe I had called for a lintel inspection. I was up on the top of a three story building when he shouted up to me that he was "jammed" that day. 

"Is it right"? he asked.

I replied "No, I've found three places that need some closer attention."

"Well, make it right, and go ahead and pour... I gotta run."

And that was probably the most shocking thing anyone on my crews had ever heard. They even asked me if he really said that. Sure, he still did some tight inspections from time to time, but for the most part things smoothed out considerably for me from that day on.

And I have not forgotten that lesson. To this very day, it doesn't take any new inspectors long to learn that my intentions are generally to out perform their expectations. My last job here at my house, admittedly a small one, was completely covered by the department head by his signature on a drawing I took in for a permit. No permit, no inspection. Just the comment "Make it purty."

I have learned to live by one saying "If you give enough other people what they want, you can have pretty much anything you set out to achieve yourself." Make the inspector's job easy. Confirm that your word is a bond they can trust. Show him/her the same respect you want to enjoy, and it just might surprise you what interesting people you can meet in that capacity.

EDIT: And, YES, I live and build in Florida... right on the Gulf of Mexico on one side and Tampa Bay on the other. We do, indeed, have some of the toughest codes in the country. But it is what it is, and you simply work with it without making a big deal out of the existing facts.


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## Dugger52

*Been There Done That*

OK, now I'm a guy who has actually managed a building permit office in FL so I'll tell you what is going on. In a word hurricanes. The engineering requirement is for the way it's put together and ability to withstand winds, in most cases now up to a 125 mph minimum. They simply do not want all those nice 2x8's or 2x10's to end up flying through the air and come through the doors, windows, roofs and walls of all the nice people in your neighborhood, and that will happen. That's also why, after Andrew, the folks in Miani-Dade County developed their own protocols (make that an air cannon) for 2x4's being shot into various materials assembled in various methods at 150 mph. They lived it, so they know what they're doing and now their certification means big bucks in the building materials trade.

Soils is the same reason. When you stick that rascal into the ground what do you need to have for anchors/footers to keep that bad boy in the ground. See the previous paragarph.

Now having said all that you can get all this done for less than $500 if you ask the right person. And that's probably the guy behind the counter that you're arguing with.

Everyplace has local conditions and local needs. In Florida it's hurricanes and moisture. Up north it's snow and ice load and cold.

My two cents. Been there done that.


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## vikireed

*Question for you, Tom*



tomstruble said:


> here in n.j. you need a permit for anything attached to the house
> 
> soil analysis and engineer sounds like over kill tho


 
Hey Tom, I'm in Monmouth County and I had a question. We bought our 1950 ranch house 3 yrs ago. The previous owner had vinyl siding done a while ago and vinyl soffits where the roof overhangs. I hate teh vinyl look and I' mgoing to build a small front porch in place of tiny concrete stoop and shrub area and one of the things I'd like to do is take the vinyl soffit covers off, leaving the wood exposed and then paint it. My uncle's old farmhouse had a front porch and just roofing above and painted wood underneath (and a light fixture). I far prefer that look and I don't mind the extra maintenance. Other than removing the soffits and painting and reattaching gutters, do i need to add any special flashing or reattach the gutters differently? If you get a chance drop me a line at my email because I'm not used to checking the DIY chatroom pages yet (I just joined) Thank you so much!


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## CrossWorks

Just Bill said:


> In most metropolitan areas run by Democrats, you need a permit to change your mind. Some of it is well founded for safety, but most is simply a ploy to get money. Now that you have told them, they will be watching. As suggested, scale it back to something simpler(no covering) and try again.


 
:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: Boy can I relate to that living here in Maine.

Sometimes we open up a can of worms with these inspector's even if you know full well (based on common sense!!!!!!!!!!!) that what your doing is not detra*mental *to a structure. But....you have to abide by law.

And in this case, when you attach anything to the house you have to take the proper steps. And that sometimes means you end up with someone/inspector who is less than informed (newbie) and or is not experienced enough to make a common sense decision. Sounds like a lot to ask, but based on previous posts, then again maybe not.

Anyway that's all I'll say, but trust me, there are people in this postion that need a minimum of 5 years OJT in the construction field before holding a clipboard.

Sorry to say, but every tree has at least one bad fruit, and sometimes in life we end up with THAT ONE in our basket. However, like one of our pro's stated earlier, you have to communicate with inspectors in the proper way. Be crass and you'll get like minded treatment. Be cooperative and informed, and most times they are reasonable to work with. But always abide by law!!

Good Luck!:tongue_smilie:


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## DangerMouse

Scuba_Dave said:


> They still wanted something adjusted, she broke into tears due to stress.....approved :laughing:


DANG!!! This may be the most helpful thing I've ever read here!!!! THAT might just be the answer to my problem with this building inspector! The wife has never met him..... but the next time, I'll be sure to make sure she can be here too..... heh heh heh .... 10 minutes with her and HE'LL be in tears, and will likely pass everything I've done immediately! LOL

Thanks ScubaDude!

DM


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## md2lgyk

I understand why you wouldn't need a permit if the thing's not attached to the house or cemented into the ground. That probably classifies it as a non-permanent structure.

Unfortunately, that's not the case where I live. I had to get a permit for a prefabricated Amish garden shed! And it just sits on the ground, no water, electric, sewer, nothing. When the inspector came around he got out of his car, peered across the yard at the thing, and said "looks good to me." Then he got back in his car and left. A couple of days later I got a Certificate of Occupancy. I can't yet legally occupy my log house that's nearly finished, but I can live in the shed.


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## DangerMouse

That sounds about right.....

DM


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## troubleseeker

rocketdoctor said:


> Whenver possible try to get around permits the Permit department in all US cities are a bunch of lazy clowns who do anything to get in your way of building. If they do allow you to build they will put huge expensive, rediculous requirements for you to jump over.
> California can solve alot of its budget crisis if it dismantled the city building deparments and allowed people to actually do improvements to their homes instead of putting HUGE roadblocks in the way.


Maybe this explains the statement under your name..." DIYHELL".

Although dismantling the building code is California would provide lots of humorous tv for the rest of us as we watched:

The mudslide derby as crappily constructed houses along the coast
slid into the ocean on a weekly basis.

The reduction in house density as 30% more homes burnt to the
ground each year when there were no common sense requirements
for brush free zones around the structure or fire retardent roofs
and exterior materials.

The new tv show "Hauling With the Demo Guys" as we follow the
demo crews cleaning up the extra thousands of structures that would 
collapse without siesmic reinforcement in every minor quake tremble.

Of course this idea would provide thousands of acres more of clear
land for pot cultivation. Would those be green jobs?:laughing:

I deal with building regs every day, and do my fair share of complaining
about many of them, until one of them saves you or a family member's
life:GFCI's are no longer ridiculous when they trip before you even feel the shock instead of being electrocuted; the aggravation of fireblocking in walls and firestop caulking at plate penetrations takes on a different perspective when it affords you the extra 50 seconds needed to get out of your burning house alive, buildings that don't collapse and squash occupants because they have no siesmic rienforcement,your neighbors entire roof that destroys your home because it had no metal ties securing it in a high wind coastal zone... and the list goes on.


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## tpolk

florida's hurricane concerns permeate thru all building these days, particularly if you wish to attatch to your house


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## Frye

Sounds crazy to me, but from what others have posted I guess it isn't out of the question. 

However, the price seems high. I hired a structural engineer to draw up plans for a room addition above a garage. The 2nd story front wall will be set back from the front of the garage, so in other words there is nothing below it and a large support beam was needed. This 20 foot beam supports the floor joists, upper wall, and on top of that wall are the roof trusses. Not rocket science, but probably not your every day engineering project either.

About a dozen contractors and other engineers recommended this person and he has a stellar reputation in the area. When the people at the building dept saw his name they said, "If he did it then it looks fine to me." His plans included specific model numbers for hangers, connections, and load specs for the trusses with consideration for snow, wind, etc. Also has several detail subsets of the major connections.

The cost? Less than $300.


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## seth917

Termite said:


> What a moronic statement. If you want to spew such worthless advice and misinformation, find a forum where it is welcome.


Actually, rocket doctor was originally correct. 

An adult does not need a government bearucrat watching over what they do.

Unfortunately, we as a society, have gotten used to being controlled and regulated and have come to accept it.

Tell the founding fathers we should need a huge ever present government and they would think you were British...

Every generation since the 19th century, our freedoms diminish more.


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## Kenny48

*Permits*



Just Bill said:


> In most metropolitan areas run by Democrats, you need a permit to change your mind. Some of it is well founded for safety, but most is simply a ploy to get money. Now that you have told them, they will be watching. As suggested, scale it back to something simpler(no covering) and try again.


Just for your information. Pasco County, as well as most of Florida is REPUBLICAN conrolled. We did not have these ridiculous rules under the Democrats!:furious:


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## AndyGump

I do hope after five years that she got her pergola done.


Andy.


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## jogr

AndyGump said:


> I do hope after five years that she got her pergola done.
> 
> 
> Andy.


 I think she's still working through the permitting process. She's going to hire Scuba's professional crier to help.


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## Kenny48

*after five years I hope so*



AndyGump said:


> I do hope after five years that she got her pergola done.
> 
> 
> Andy.


unfortunately if she lived In Pasco County Florida I doubt that she ever did, unless she first had a land survey for $2000, A soil analysis for $500 and a Strutural engineers blueprints done for another couple of thousand! The even require this ridiculousness to put a simple garden shed in your yard! The reason I replied was to comment on Bills comment that said this is what happens when you allow Democrats to run government. Fact is Pasco County is run and controlled almost entirely by Tea Party people! The same people who claim they don't beleive in big government.

The whole reason is they are in bed with the developers and contractors. They can build anything they want, anywhere. Just so long as they are licensed by the state. It's the most corrupt place in Amerikka!


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