# Neighbor's furnace vent, need help!



## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

I have been awakened or kept awake many a night by a sound, much like my furnace sound coming on and off, but remarkably louder, as it sounds louder. My house is so close to my neighbours, I could reach out and touch her house from my bedroom window.

I discovered while cleaning the eaves, there is a pipe coming out of her house (new neighbour just took over the house). Is it legal to vent a furnace out the side of the house, that close to mine? Where my bedroom window is less than two feet away from sucking in whatever poisonous stuff is coming out of there? 

If it is, how do we cut down the noise?

We're both single women and I don't know anything about furnaces, but I think there is something wrong here. Don't they vent up a chimney? What is it that it expels and is this dangerous to me? I used to keep the window open a crack, but no longer as too worried what is being vented out of the house, so now its closed AND I am still awakened by it.

Anyone have any advice on this??? We need help!


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Many modern furnaces vent out the side of the house via a pipe about 5 inches in diameter and a few feet off the ground.

Various energy saving devices extract much of the heat from the exhaust gases and after that, the gases don't rise up a chimney by themselves.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

AllanJ said:


> Many modern furnaces vent out the side of the house via a pipe about 5 inches in diameter and a few feet off the ground.


Thank you. Now, are there requirements about how much room should be between the houses went you vent outside and what can be done about the noise? Also, what risk is there to me to be inhaling this in my attempt to sleep?


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Carbon Monoxide poisoning risk.

Call your local building code department, and see if they have codes against it.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks. Will get on that today. Do you know how to muffle the noise?



beenthere said:


> Carbon Monoxide poisoning risk.
> 
> Call your local building code department, and see if they have codes against it.


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## moopey (Sep 14, 2010)

there are certain distances the exhaust must be from things like windows, doors, gas meter, etc. This is mainly determined by your local building or plumbing codes. 

it is possible that someone prior to the new owner installed the new furnace and did not pull a permit so nothing was inspected. 

As for the sound, I don't know theres much that can be done other than re-routing the exhaust to discharge somewhere else.


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## michaelcherr (Nov 10, 2010)

Absoluteley there is a health risk.
Do not open that window during heating season, or until the vent pipe gets re-routed.
If the installer would have read the owner's manual they would have known better.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

*HOLD ON HOLD ON !!! EVERYONE CALM DOWN for a minute. *

I suspect what you are dealing with is a "heat pump" type heating and air conditioning system.

If the noise is coming from a 3-4 inch diameter plastic pipe and is around 3-5 feet above the ground this is likely a modern-day heat pump. They can be noisy.

If this is the case, you probably aren't dealing with any noxious fumes. You are dealing with compressed air only. Maybe some drips of water and some steam and some noise but that's about it.

The noise emitted from those things is rated in "bels" and I'm sure they have their limits when a neighbors unit is as close as this one is to you.

Generally speaking the range is from 0 to 13 bels. (very similar to decibels) Thirteen is very high as it would relate to decibels of sound. Have your local building inspection office check it out and see what they suggest.

Chances are the emission point near your window can be relocated to a more desirable location.


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> *HOLD ON HOLD ON !!! EVERYONE CALM DOWN for a minute. *
> 
> I suspect what you are dealing with is a "heat pump" type heating and air conditioning system.
> 
> ...


 
Tile-Guy....stick with tile....that's not a heatpump...I would only make the leap this could possibly be a radon mitigation system, but you usually don't hear those.


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## kb3ca (Aug 22, 2008)

See if the neighbor would be willing to have a 90 degree elbow installed pointing down to help with the noise problem or reroute the exhaust somewhere away from the side of your house. I suspect their could be a building code violation with the exhaust so close to your window.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Tile-Guy....stick with tile....that's not a heatpump...I would only make the leap this could possibly be a radon mitigation system, but you usually don't hear those.


Oh I fully intend to stick with tile but with the minimal description of what is taking place I wasn't seeing life-threatening exhaust fumes permeating the neighborhood. Exhaust fumes rising from heat convection won't make any noise either and those discharges are typically at (or above) the roof line. Heat pumps compressing gasses in a system will make a lot of noise.


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> Oh I fully intend to stick with tile but with the minimal description of what is taking place I wasn't seeing life-threatening exhaust fumes permeating the neighborhood. Exhaust fumes rising from heat convection won't make any noise either and those discharges are typically at (or above) the roof line. Heat pumps compressing gasses in a system will make a lot of noise.


It's a furnace NOT a Heatpump. Heatpump's NEVER vent thru plastic pipe!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> *HOLD ON HOLD ON !!! EVERYONE CALM DOWN for a minute. *
> 
> I suspect what you are dealing with is a "heat pump" type heating and air conditioning system.
> 
> ...


From her description. Its more likely that its the exhaust pipe of a gas furnace.

A heat pump would not be emitting noise from the sleeve the line set is run through. The noise from a heat pump would come from the outdoor unit itself.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> Oh I fully intend to stick with tile but with the minimal description of what is taking place I wasn't seeing life-threatening exhaust fumes permeating the neighborhood. Exhaust fumes rising from heat convection won't make any noise either and those discharges are typically at (or above) the roof line. Heat pumps compressing gasses in a system will make a lot of noise.



Condensing gas furnace vents are about 35/65. As far as the number vented up through the roof(35%), and the number vented through the side(65%) of the house.

Since its much easier on existing construction to vent out eh side then through the roof.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

beacher.

Can you take a pic of it. And post it.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

Per IFGC. Vent must terminate at least 4' horizontally from an operable window & 4' below an operable window. If you can reach out the window & touch their house. It's probably not 4' away. Unless your Streach Armstrong:laughing:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

kenmac said:


> Per IFGC. Vent must terminate at least 4' horizontally from an operable window & 4' below an operable window. If you can reach out the window & touch their house. It's probably not 4' away. Unless your Streach Armstrong:laughing:


Direct vent has different clearances.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi all:

Not meaning to start such a heated debate on the topic. It is pitch black right now, but I will try to get a shot tomorrow morning before I head to work and post it tomorrow night when I get home. I did speak to the neighbour yesterday (another single woman who knows nothing about furnaces) and she did tell me that the real estate agent advised her (as did the home inspector) that there was a new furnace installed just prior to her possession (hence why I would have never heard this sound before in my 5 years here, nor seen a pipe out the side of their house when cleaning my eaves). She said she has no idea what that pipe is and does not hear it (she is in a two story and I am in a bungalow, so SHE does not have it beside her ear when she goes to bed, lucky thing) but she is willing to look into it so I can get some rest and peace of mind. 

I used my entire lunch to call the city about code, but was on hold for my hour and gave up. 

I can tell you that the pipe itself is plastic (I have seen it), that it was never there before (until this year) and there is a new furnace (as per new owner). Not sure of the pipe diameter, but will check that tomorrow before work, if it is light enough outside. As per coworker, who I am sure has about as much experience in this area as myself, all new furnaces installed must be high efficiency (some new rule) and therefore I shouldn't worry about noxious substances being emitted. Is there truth to that? He also suggested that they probably opted to vent it outside rather than through the chimney when the new one was installed and said it is common.

Will give you more tomorrow. Neighbour and I decided we would both investigate it further together on the weekend (since we both leave when it is dark and come home when it is dark) and figure out what to do. 

Thanks again for all the information, at least I know more about where to start.

beacher



beenthere said:


> beacher.
> 
> Can you take a pic of it. And post it.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

That is VERY possible. They were horrid neighbours. Ok, let me elaborate on that. They were always doing things without proper anything. Tradesmen, permits etc...so they could get a better deal. There were lots of issues they caused by their attempts to get a deal that ended up costing them (and by virtue of me being their neighbour, me as well). For instance, this summer, they attempted to prune a gigantic tree in their yard that is separated by our fence which resulted in part of the tree breaking off in my yard (apparently they cut through one branch a bit, but it was too hard to reach so left it half cut. Storm whipped up, gigantic branch broke off, smashed my garage window and destroyed my plants and one piece of lawn furniture). I could go on ad nauseum about the things they have done over the years. I can't speak to them as people, so that is a bit unfair, but the things they did that caused me problems were horrid. 



moopey said:


> there are certain distances the exhaust must be from things like windows, doors, gas meter, etc. This is mainly determined by your local building or plumbing codes.
> 
> it is possible that someone prior to the new owner installed the new furnace and did not pull a permit so nothing was inspected.
> 
> As for the sound, I don't know theres much that can be done other than re-routing the exhaust to discharge somewhere else.


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## Technow (Nov 12, 2010)

beacher1967 said:


> Hi all:
> 
> 
> and therefore I shouldn't worry about noxious substances being emitted. Is there truth to that? He also suggested that they probably opted to vent it outside rather than through the chimney when the new one was installed and said it is common.
> ...


Not true...exhaust is combustion and its just as dangerous as you car exhaust pipe. High efficiency furnaces do not get vented thru existing chimneys, they get vented thru plastic pipe either up thru the roof or more commonly out the side of the house (paying attention to proper clearances)


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Crud. That is not good. This is plastic pipe and now I am very happy my bedroom window is shut. 



Technow said:


> Not true...exhaust is combustion and its just as dangerous as you car exhaust pipe. High efficiency furnaces do not get vented thru existing chimneys, they get vented thru plastic pipe either up thru the roof or more commonly out the side of the house (paying attention to proper clearances)


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## hvac122 (Dec 10, 2007)

Maybe I missed it but just how far are the houses apart? The vent may be perfectly legal.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

A high efficiency furnace. Can produce as much Carbon Monoxide as a 80% efficient furnace.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

If I reach out my bedroom window, I could touch her house, maybe 2 ft.



hvac122 said:


> Maybe I missed it but just how far are the houses apart? The vent may be perfectly legal.


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

beacher1967 said:


> That is VERY possible. They were horrid neighbours. Ok, let me elaborate on that. They were always doing things without proper anything. Tradesmen, permits etc...so they could get a better deal. There were lots of issues they caused by their attempts to get a deal that ended up costing them (and by virtue of me being their neighbour, me as well). For instance, this summer, they attempted to prune a gigantic tree in their yard that is separated by our fence which resulted in part of the tree breaking off in my yard (apparently they cut through one branch a bit, but it was too hard to reach so left it half cut. Storm whipped up, gigantic branch broke off, smashed my garage window and destroyed my plants and one piece of lawn furniture). I could go on ad nauseum about the things they have done over the years. I can't speak to them as people, so that is a bit unfair, but the things they did that caused me problems were horrid.


There responsible for daamage to your property when it comes to pruning. If you wan to piss them off read the massachusetts rule, or law on trees. It has pretty much become the standard for tree disputes. You might be able to get them to chop down their tree.


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

Technow said:


> Not true...exhaust is combustion and its just as dangerous as you car exhaust pipe. High efficiency furnaces do not get vented thru existing chimneys, they get vented thru plastic pipe either up thru the roof or more commonly out the side of the house (paying attention to proper clearances)


Can they be vnted trough high efficiency line chimneys?


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

They can be vented thru a chimney as longer as it has no other appliances/gas water heater venting into it. The plastic venting can be run up the existing chimney if it/chimney is the right size/diameter and configuration. Not an easy task.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

*Sidewall venting of direct vent furnace between buildings restricted in Chicago*

The clearance requirements for direct vent furnace exhaust terminations (as specified by the manufacturer's installation instructions) are often surprisingly small, for example 12" to operable windows for 50K+ BTU units is common.

There are often prohibitions (again, in the manufacturer's installation instructions) against discharge over a walkway or driveway between single family homes and serving both dwellings).

Beyond these requirements, local codes often (for example, in Chicago) restrict sidewall venting of direct-vent appliances too close to adjacent buildings.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok, it's dark and rainy but here it is. One pic is kind of cut off, but wanted to show where my bedroom window is in proximity to it. Never uploaded photos before, so fingers crossed this works.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Hmmm, looks like one did not upload, going to try again



beacher1967 said:


> Ok, it's dark and rainy but here it is. One pic is kind of cut off, but wanted to show where my bedroom window is in proximity to it. Never uploaded photos before, so fingers crossed this works.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

ARGH. It is showing as an x to me, going to try one more time.



beacher1967 said:


> Hmmm, looks like one did not upload, going to try again


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Can someone tell me if you see the actual pipe, it is still showing as an x to me here?



beacher1967 said:


> ARGH. It is showing as an x to me, going to try one more time.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm in Toronto, Canada and we have a law that if you cut down a tree on your property, you have to plant a new one.



ianc435 said:


> There responsible for daamage to your property when it comes to pruning. If you wan to piss them off read the massachusetts rule, or law on trees. It has pretty much become the standard for tree disputes. You might be able to get them to chop down their tree.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

beacher1967 said:


> Can someone tell me if you see the actual pipe, it is still showing as an x to me here?


 

Yep, I can see it. It's not direct vent. It's power vent. I quoated IFGC. you will have to check the code for Canada or the manufacture specs as they over ride most codes in my area. Wow ! those houses are close !


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

beacher1967 said:


> I'm in Toronto, Canada and we have a law that if you cut down a tree on your property, you have to plant a new one.


Plant a bonsai. The law i quoted you was a us law, sorry didn't know u were in the land of cold air which is one of the united states bigest imports from canada


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Is that pipe 7' or more above that common service walk? Code requires it to be a min of 7' above a common service walk way.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok, excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean? Is this a furnace vent and if so what is the difference between direct vent and power vent (and what does IFGC stand for?). 

I wasn't joking when I said I could reach out and touch her house, lol. We both have more room on the other sides of our houses, not like there is that much space between me and the other side neighbour, lol.



kenmac said:


> Yep, I can see it. It's not direct vent. It's power vent. I quoated IFGC. you will have to check the code for Canada or the manufacture specs as they over ride most codes in my area. Wow ! those houses are close !


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

I watch eyewitness news, lol, buffalo is colder than toronto right now 



ianc435 said:


> Plant a bonsai. The law i quoted you was a us law, sorry didn't know u were in the land of cold air which is one of the united states bigest imports from canada


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

No it is definitely not 7 feet above the ground. Have to go back and look at the picture to see if it shows the ground, but it is I think around my knees and I am 5"5.



beenthere said:


> Is that pipe 7' or more above that common service walk? Code requires it to be a min of 7' above a common service walk way.


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

beacher1967 said:


> I watch eyewitness news, lol, buffalo is colder than toronto right now


I am glad to see people with a sense of humor. Power vent is a assited draft like a fan after furnace to force out gasses.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

So, that pipe is emitting furnace gases?



ianc435 said:


> I am glad to see people with a sense of humor. Power vent is a assited draft like a fan after furnace to force out gasses.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

it does look like a flue for a 90% efficient or better furnace..... IFGC stands for international fuel and gas code.


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## merle (Dec 18, 2007)

I had a high efficiency furnace installed in the mid 80's the installers placed a
muffler (plastic) on both the air intake and exhaust. cut down all the noise.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Oy yoy yoy! I need a tradesmen dictionary to talk to you gentlemen!!!! Let me go and try and look up flue. Seem to recall that term being related to a fireplace.

"A furnace flue is the portion of the furnace that vents away harmful gasses. Depending of the type of furnace, this may be a small pipe, a household chimney or even an industrial smokestack. The gasses created during combustion, such as carbon monoxide, sulfur oxide or nitrogen oxide, are harmful to humans. The furnace flue moves these gasses to a ventilated area, allowing them to dissipate into the atmosphere without causing harm."

Ok, since the above definition does not sound good for me, as a general rule of thumb gents, what would be considered too close to a window to put this flue (for my own safety, since I am now more substantially worried about breathing in toxins than noise at the moment).


hvactech126 said:


> it does look like a flue for a 90% efficient or better furnace..... IFGC stands for international fuel and gas code.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

merle said:


> I had a high efficiency furnace installed in the mid 80's the installers placed a
> muffler (plastic) on both the air intake and exhaust. cut down all the noise.


sounds like you are talking about a lennox, pulse unit.... they have not made those in years, THANK GOD!!!!!!


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

merle said:


> I had a high efficiency furnace installed in the mid 80's the installers placed a
> muffler (plastic) on both the air intake and exhaust. cut down all the noise.


WoulDn't you thinc pvc would melt, i guess not. Is it a certain schedule? What about durability vs time?


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok, thanks, have written that down. As I mentioned earlier, meeting the neighbour this weekend to go view it and talk about it and what to do (when it is light outside of course)



merle said:


> I had a high efficiency furnace installed in the mid 80's the installers placed a
> muffler (plastic) on both the air intake and exhaust. cut down all the noise.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

ianc435 said:


> WoulDn't you thinc pvc would melt, i guess not. Is it a certain schedule? What about durability vs time?


90% efficient and above furnace remove enough of the heat from the flue gasses, that they can be vented through pvc and must be vented through pvc because the gases condense inside the flue pipe and would rot out standard venting material:huh:


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

hvactech126 said:


> 90% efficient and above furnace remove enough of the heat from the flue gasses, that they can be vented through pvc and must be vented through pvc because the gases condense inside the flue pipe and would rot out standard venting material:huh:


Yeah that makes sense. Heat out flue bad? Thanks for info never actually tought about correlation between heat exhaust and efficiency. What about byprodcuts and accumilation in vent/ flue?


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok, so, since I am not worried about the pipe melting and do understand I have to check with the manufacturers instructions and city codes to get actual measurements and see if it is far away from the window as per those rules or manuals, in your opinion, do you think that pipe is too close to my bedroom window and I need to deal with this immediately or far enough away that I should not worry, but still check it out?



hvactech126 said:


> 90% efficient and above furnace remove enough of the heat from the flue gasses, that they can be vented through pvc and must be vented through pvc because the gases condense inside the flue pipe and would rot out standard venting material:huh:


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

I do think that it is too close, but this is again as you said just by the picture and without the code and or measurements would not be able to comment on if it is a safety hazard. IF per the manufacturer's instructions you were able to extended the flue beyond its current length, then I see nothing that would keep you from being able to cut the flue back closer to the house and 90 degree turn it up and run along the outside of the house and with proper clearances make it around the eave and vent upwards and get it away from your window


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

and do you think a muffler for air intake and exhaust would help with the noise problem?



hvactech126 said:


> I do think that it is too close, but this is again as you said just by the picture and without the code and or measurements would not be able to comment on if it is a safety hazard. IF per the manufacturer's instructions you were able to extended the flue beyond its current length, then I see nothing that would keep you from being able to cut the flue back closer to the house and 90 degree turn it up and run along the outside of the house and with proper clearances make it around the eave and vent upwards and get it away from your window


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

hvactech126 said:


> I do think that it is too close, but this is again as you said just by the picture and without the code and or measurements would not be able to comment on if it is a safety hazard. IF per the manufacturer's instructions you were able to extended the flue beyond its current length, then I see nothing that would keep you from being able to cut the flue back closer to the house and 90 degree turn it up and run along the outside of the house and with proper clearances make it around the eave and vent upwards and get it away from your window


Does code or manufacteres clearances appy to two hoses or the primary house? Curious. It has to take into account other stuctures? Just asking for knowaledge and not trying to offend. Thanks for any info.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

beacher1967 said:


> and do you think a muffler for air intake and exhaust would help with the noise problem?


"mufflers" were only used, to my knowledge, on a furnace made by Lennox, called a Pulse. They stopped production of these units in the mid to late 90's

There is no newer furnace that I know of that should ever need a muffler.


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

The manuals I have read for 90% furnaces call for a 1 foot minimum from any window or door. Granted that's for the house the funace is going in and not the next door neighbors window. 
Perhaps a tee on the end of the pipe to direct the noise up would help. Can always put one on without glueing it for a test.
Mufflers were for the pulse furnaces which had a loud BRRRRRR noise. You're just hearing air noise from the inducer so they wouldn't help even if the mfr allowed them on the install.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

ianc435 said:


> Does code or manufacteres clearances appy to two hoses or the primary house? Curious. It has to take into account other stuctures? Just asking for knowaledge and not trying to offend. Thanks for any info.


to my knowledge, codes are for the residence with the appliance, however, distances should be adhered to no matter if its another structure. ie most manufacturers and municipalities require a certain distance from windows that can be opened


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

It is really loud. When I had the window open it kept me up the bulk of the night. With the window shut, it still disturbs my sleep, but if I cover my head with the pillow or just give up and go sleep in the basement, I can get a fairly decent sleep. So if new furnaces don't need mufflers, what do they need to quieten them?



hvactech126 said:


> "mufflers" were only used, to my knowledge, on a furnace made by Lennox, called a Pulse. They stopped production of these units in the mid to late 90's
> 
> There is no newer furnace that I know of that should ever need a muffler.


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## ianc435 (Jun 12, 2010)

Marty S. said:


> The manuals I have read for 90% furnaces call for a 1 foot minimum from any window or door. Granted that's for the house the funace is going in and not the next door neighbors window.
> Perhaps a tee on the end of the pipe to direct the noise up would help. Can always put one on without glueing it for a test.
> Mufflers were for the pulse furnaces which had a loud BRRRRRR noise. You're just hearing air noise from the inducer so they wouldn't help even if the mfr allowed them on the install.


Well if it says any wouldn't that include all windows wether on primary or neighboring. Good thing to find out. Is there a clearance for surface, like the one its running up??


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

I do think there is cause for concern beacher, but if you keep your windows shut, there should be no issue of flue gases unless you are smelling something. Noise is noise and can be directed away


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok then. Armed with this information, I called my neighbour and told her the bulk of it. She is going to phone the installer tomorrow to see what he has to say. I am going to get on the city and find out what is the code. I will see about redirecting it or mufflers or whatever for the sound issue. Thanks a ton for the information!

Thanks again!


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

ianc435 said:


> Is there a clearance for surface, like the one its running up??


Never saw one. As beenthere stated earlier there are distances over common walk ways to maintain so those don't get iced over. Not a good idea to direct the humid exhaust at anything close enough where the moisture will cause a problem.


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## zootjeff (Jul 11, 2007)

beacher1967 said:


> Ok then. Armed with this information, I called my neighbour and told her the bulk of it. She is going to phone the installer tomorrow to see what he has to say. I am going to get on the city and find out what is the code. I will see about redirecting it or mufflers or whatever for the sound issue. Thanks a ton for the information (and everything I learned while talking to you). Will enclose a pic of me so you know who you were helping!
> 
> Thanks again!



Part of the issue may be that it is aimed directly at your house. If you put a 90 degree bend, or even some installs use a PVC T on the pipe, that will direct the sound up and down and may help a little in reducing the noise.

The best thing to do would be to vent it out a different way. These PVC pipes can have only so much bends in them before the fan that is creating that howling noise can't keep up with the resistance in the pipe from all the bends... One of the ways they deal with this is to use less bends or larger diameter pipe.

It may not be too much of a stretch to put a 90 degree bend on their pipe, and then run it with some length of PVC pipe to a location that is far from your window, and also aimed away from your house...

When your neighbors installer comes to check it out, the best option may be to route the pipe somewhere else either from the inside or outside... The pipe can even be bought at homedepot..


The muffler approach may also work too but would likely take some experimentation.. You could likely construct a box lined with Styrofoam and put it over the pipe attached to your neighbors house, this would cause the sound to make several bends before it escapes, and it wouldn't really harm the performance of the vent if built correctly.. I built a box around my air compressor and it was almost silent as a result..


See my attached MS paint drawing..


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks! I feel a lot more confident about dealing with this, now that I know what I am dealing with and possible solutions!



zootjeff said:


> Part of the issue may be that it is aimed directly at your house. If you put a 90 degree bend, or even some installs use a PVC T on the pipe, that will direct the sound up and down and may help a little in reducing the noise.
> 
> The best thing to do would be to vent it out a different way. These PVC pipes can have only so much bends in them before the fan that is creating that howling noise can't keep up with the resistance in the pipe from all the bends... One of the ways they deal with this is to use less bends or larger diameter pipe.
> 
> ...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Jeff's drawing is nice. But not practical. The moisture that comes out of the flue, will freeze in the box, and block off the bottom first, and then build up and cover the Tee. Leaving your neighbor without heat. And a very difficult ice block to remove or thaw.

Also, do ask them to put an ell on it so it vents down ward. That will cause more problems yet.

A tee venting the gasses sideways will lessen the noise some, but may not be enough, depending how sensitive you are to noise. Everyone is different with regards to noise/sound.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

ALL high efficiency units have to make SOME noise. Sound like a central vacuum system exhaust when running. Problem is the sound getting trapped between the 2 buildings. 99.9% of furnaces produce C02 when burning cleanly as they do. CO gets produced from incomplete combustion etc. You can breathe in that exhaust but it is NOT recommended. See if you can get the make and model # and a pic of her furnace and post it here. You cannot add mufflers (not made anyway) as they would cause the furnace to trip out on a pressure switch and not run at all. Adding a bunch of extension pipe outside may freeze up the pipe and cause further problems and is NOT recommended.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't recall ever terminating a 90% straight out or that far out from the house. I always install a 90 on the end


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## zootjeff (Jul 11, 2007)

beenthere said:


> Jeff's drawing is nice. But not practical. The moisture that comes out of the flue, will freeze in the box, and block off the bottom first, and then build up and cover the Tee. Leaving your neighbor without heat. And a very difficult ice block to remove or thaw.


Hence the note about experimentation.. Maybe you just put up a piece of 2' foam as a shield and don't build a box.. You could line it with the electric heat strips that you use to keep pipes from freezing..


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

zootjeff said:


> Hence the note about experimentation.. Maybe you just put up a piece of 2' foam as a shield and don't build a box.. You could line it with the electric heat strips that you use to keep pipes from freezing..



She just has to convince her neighbor to do that.

And get approval from the code department.


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## zootjeff (Jul 11, 2007)

beenthere said:


> She just has to convince her neighbor to do that.
> 
> And get approval from the code department.


Unique problems require unique solutions.. It is easy to try some of this.. It is less easy to completely re-route the pipe..

-Jeff


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

zootjeff said:


> Unique problems require unique solutions.. It is easy to try some of this.. It is less easy to completely re-route the pipe..
> 
> -Jeff


Also makes it hard to sell when a home inspector sees it. And tells a prospective buyer that it isn't safe, and doesn't meet code.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Wow, well, I will talk it over with her this weekend. Sounds like this is going to be a big deal.



beenthere said:


> Also makes it hard to sell when a home inspector sees it. And tells a prospective buyer that it isn't safe, and doesn't meet code.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

with the houses that close together. The installer should have routed it a different way


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## KarlJay (Dec 9, 2009)

Before you go any further, I'd buy a CO alarm. They are usually near the smoke alarms at the hardware store. I bought one and was it went off when I was running my car outside the front door. It's a 60's muscle car and the door was open, the alarm went off and saved me a headache.
It was about $30


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you Karly, I have detectors that have gone off kind of what I thought randomly, but now know what it is


KarlJay said:


> Before you go any further, I'd buy a CO alarm. They are usually near the smoke alarms at the hardware store. I bought one and was it went off when I was running my car outside the front door. It's a 60's muscle car and the door was open, the alarm went off and saved me a headache.
> It was about $30


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

****e


yuri said:


> ALL high efficiency units have to make SOME noise. Sound like a central vacuum system exhaust when running. Problem is the sound getting trapped between the 2 buildings. 99.9% of furnaces produce C02 when burning cleanly as they do. CO gets produced from incomplete combustion etc. You can breathe in that exhaust but it is NOT recommended. See if you can get the make and model # and a pic of her furnace and post it here. You cannot add mufflers (not made anyway) as they would cause the furnace to trip out on a pressure switch and not run at all. Adding a bunch of extension pipe outside may freeze up the pipe and cause further problems and is NOT recommended.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

English please for the hvac impaired?


kenmac said:


> I can't recall ever terminating a 90% straight out or that far out from the house. I always install a 90 on the end


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

So, she said she called the installer and it is to code as per them. She said she asked them to come out and it will cost her. I took measurements and the pipe is 7ft away from my window and there is 32 inches between the houses and the pipe is 11.5 inches. I told her that I do not believe it is to code as I cannot see that being acceptable between the houses, but that I will remain quiet to give her the time to check it out. But it seems to me that she is unwilling to do anything about it (she said she wanted the installer to prove to me it is fine, regardless of the fumes and noise), so I guess I am going to take it to another level.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

It does meet the Cdn gas code. Need 1 foot from any openable/operable window if it is under 100,000 BTUs and 3 feet if over. There is NO gas code requirement for neighbors houses and you are past the 3 feet anyway. They RECOMMEND it not be over any walkways but we do it all the time out of necessity. Lots of Archie Bunker close together houses here also. The biggest problem is the trapped noise and only venting it out the other side of her house will solve that and it may be impossible. You may need some heavy soundproofing drapes for your window. Looks like they glued an adaptor/reducing fitting on the end of her pipe and that may need to be there for the manufacturers specs etc. Cannot just remove it and start gluing elbows and tees on. Some people use a radio or white noise generator (Radio Shack or The Source as they are called in Canada) for background sound to help them sleep.


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

beacher1967 said:


> English please for the hvac impaired?


 
:huh:

I don't ever recall myself ending the exhaust pipe on a 90% furnace straight out like that. I have a installed an elbow on the end. is that better:laughing:


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

yuri said:


> It does meet the Cdn gas code. Need 1 foot from any openable/operable window if it is under 100,000 BTUs and 3 feet if over. There is NO gas code requirement for neighbors houses and you are past the 3 feet anyway. They RECOMMEND it not be over any walkways but we do it all the time out of necessity. Lots of Archie Bunker close together houses here also. The biggest problem is the trapped noise and only venting it out the other side of her house will solve that and it may be impossible. You may need some heavy soundproofing drapes for your window. Looks like they glued an adaptor/reducing fitting on the end of her pipe and that may need to be there for the manufacturers specs etc. Cannot just remove it and start gluing elbows and tees on. Some people use a radio or white noise generator (Radio Shack or The Source as they are called in Canada) for background sound to help them sleep.


Can you dig up a pulse for her yuri? That should be enough white noise to cancel out the neighbors vent.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Marty S. said:


> Can you dig up a pulse for her yuri? That should be enough white noise to cancel out the neighbors vent.



I have one sitting in the office for training purposes....... now those are NOISEY!!!!!


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Actually the 60M Pulse was quiet and the 40 did not need mufflers. The others would roar. :yes:
Tough old buzzards, had a 1983 one the other day with all original parts.


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## beacher1967 (Nov 29, 2010)

Well, that is disconcerting. Where did you find this gas code? I would like to read it. It is almost shocking that that could be true. Unfortunately, I would not sleep at all with a radio or white noise generator, so based on what you are saying, it looks like I will be sleeping in the basement the rest of my life. ARGH.



yuri said:


> It does meet the Cdn gas code. Need 1 foot from any openable/operable window if it is under 100,000 BTUs and 3 feet if over. There is NO gas code requirement for neighbors houses and you are past the 3 feet anyway. They RECOMMEND it not be over any walkways but we do it all the time out of necessity. Lots of Archie Bunker close together houses here also. The biggest problem is the trapped noise and only venting it out the other side of her house will solve that and it may be impossible. You may need some heavy soundproofing drapes for your window. Looks like they glued an adaptor/reducing fitting on the end of her pipe and that may need to be there for the manufacturers specs etc. Cannot just remove it and start gluing elbows and tees on. Some people use a radio or white noise generator (Radio Shack or The Source as they are called in Canada) for background sound to help them sleep.


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## avroom (Jun 16, 2015)

Same problem with my neighbours. My problem is they set me up and had me arrested. Police here are pathetic. Can't wait to emmigrate. Anyways if the noise is bothersome erect a sound barrier. Something like a fence. Good luck trying to get the offender to do it. The closer to the vent the smaller the barrier size will have to be.


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## avroom (Jun 16, 2015)

I've read 6 feet from an agjacent wall.


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## supers05 (May 23, 2015)

Dead thread walking? 

A 2010 thread means they were using the previous code book which got more strict with the newer book. And the police have no jurisdiction in Canada on gas laws... Trespassing is a different story. So i would guess that you're not in North America or are referring to something else. 

PS. Some appliances now have a muffler option when using venting below a certain length/size. PVC, system 636 rated. I live next to an airport, so i wouldn't even notice venting noise... 

Cheers!


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## FrillyLily (Jun 4, 2012)

beacher1967 said:


> Thanks. Will get on that today. Do you know how to muffle the noise?



Why would you call up the government and make a big mess when you haven't even asked the neighbor about it yet? Maybe she doesn't even realize there is an issue, give her a chance to address it before calling up the code department. You are going to make an enemy here. You would not be happy living next to me if you did that to me.


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## FrillyLily (Jun 4, 2012)

didn't even realize this thread was so old!


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