# Gas line extension - black iron or copper??



## Joshua77 (Sep 7, 2008)

I need to extend an existing black iron gas line to supply a new gas stove for my kitchen remodel. I'd like to avoid the extra labor of working with black iron and I enjoy working with copper so I'm wondering what disadvantages there may be, if any, to using rigid copper as gas line.

Fortunately, it will be convenient to replace a 90 elbow with a T at the point where I need to extend the existing gas line.

Any suggestions... preferences?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

how about a flex line off the tee right into the stove


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## clasact (Oct 21, 2006)

frist thing I would do is check to see what the code is for your area it may just answer your question for you.Some places only allow the black iron others will allow some copper depending on the use and distance.Where I am I must use iron to the kitchen for stoves and ovens but I can run copper or the expensive yellow gas line to the fireplace so check the code first


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Rigid copper is not used for gas. Sweat and compression fittings are not legal or appropriate. Flexible copper tubing (flare fittings) can be used in some areas, but the gas composition can be problematic in many areas. Copper is uncommon for gas pipe these days. 

For DIY, your best bet is to use black steel threaded pipe. 

Flexible CSST gasline is another option, but is typically not a DIY process. Most of the time, it isn't available on a retail basis, so a plumber must install it. I've heard of it being available to DIYers in some cases, but I strongly recommend against installing CSST yourself.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Does anyone know why local piping codes might not allow rigid copper to be used for gas piping? Is it just that they don't like the idea of anyone working on a gas line with a propane torch?


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Does anyone know why local piping codes might not allow rigid copper to be used for gas piping? Is it just that they don't like the idea of anyone working on a gas line with a propane torch?


Nothing to do with the torch. 

Two issues at play.

1) Gas contains hydrogen sulfide, which will eat copper up. Different suppliers have different levels. Copper isn't permitted in applications when the supplier delivers gas with more than .3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 cubic feet of gas. Gotta check with the gas supplier and the codes authority.

2) Copper used for gas must be flared, threaded, or brazed. You can't do the first two to rigid copper. I believe that brazing is resistant to the chemicals in the gas whereas solder is not. Solder melts somewhere around 400 degrees. Brazing must be done in excess of 1000 degrees in order to be legal.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

A fire in the structure would melt the solder on rigid copper lines, allowing gas in the line to contribute to the fire. Pressurized gas lines are not permitted to be soldered. Some are allowed to be brazed, like piped oxygen for example. I'm pretty sure that the plumbing code on this is derived from the NFPA standard on piped gases.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Ahhh, good thinkin!


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

thekctermite said:


> Ahhh, good thinkin!


Actually, I didn't think it. Some fire protection engineer with the NFPA did. :laughing: Kind of funny, I just got an e-mail update to proposed changes in the NFPA 99 piped gas standards this morning.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

termite-


> Gas contains hydrogen sulfide, which will eat copper up.


What would be your guess on a time frame on this? My house is thirty years old, don't know of any problems there yet but this if the first time I have heard of this. Right now, the supply comes from the meter to one stick of black pipe, just enough to go from the meter and through the foundation and inside a little ways, then lines are T'd from the black pipe to everything. HW,stove, furnace.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

downunder said:


> What would be your guess on a time frame on this?


Honestly, I go in 80-100 year old homes all the time that have flexible copper running gas, and it isn't degraded. Our gas supplier in this area is well below the acceptible limit for hydrogen sulfide, as are most major suppliers. 

If you have flexible copper gaslines in your house it doesn't mean that you need to take the week off work and start replacing them immediately. They're probably just fine. Codes have changed in more recent years, making installation of copper gaslines a less desirable practice. If your lines are rigid copper and soldered connections, you need to remove them and install something that is appropriate.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Just for the info, all of my lines are flexible copper with flared unions. By flexible, I assume that we are not talking about the corrugated looking stuff that is usually made up in two or three ft lengths.


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## KEN19 (Sep 21, 2011)

I have a related question. I live in a rural are and there is now a problem with cooper thieves. Last week they cut the cooper tubing of my Propane gas tank and where it entered the house. Thank God they turn off the gas first. I want to know what other kind of lines can be used to replace the cooper ones.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Termite said:


> Nothing to do with the torch.
> 
> Two issues at play.
> 
> ...


Natural gas varies a lot....especially BTU's....for the most part you can assume 1000 BTU's/ cu ft......but I've seen it vary quite a bit....I assume the Hyd sulfide could be the same as well...



downunder said:


> Just for the info, all of my lines are flexible copper with flared unions. By flexible, I assume that we are not talking about the corrugated looking stuff that is usually made up in two or three ft lengths.


Any chance they are coated on the inside? Most of the flexible stuff I have seen is coated.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

KEN19 said:


> I have a related question. I live in a rural are and there is now a problem with cooper thieves. Last week they cut the cooper tubing of my Propane gas tank and where it entered the house. Thank God they turn off the gas first. I want to know what other kind of lines can be used to replace the cooper ones.


There is a yellow flexible line used for gas--It used to be that only licensed plumbers and heating guys could us it---things may have changed see what google has to say--

A knowledgeable plumber might see this and help,too.


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## hvac benny (Dec 29, 2009)

KEN19 said:


> I have a related question. I live in a rural are and there is now a problem with cooper thieves. Last week they cut the cooper tubing of my Propane gas tank and where it entered the house. Thank God they turn off the gas first. I want to know what other kind of lines can be used to replace the cooper ones.


if you're going to DIY this repair, go with black iron. There is CSST, but all the companies that I know of won't sell to you unless you're certified to install it, even if you have a gas ticket.


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## KEN19 (Sep 21, 2011)

hvac benny said:


> if you're going to DIY this repair, go with black iron. There is CSST, but all the companies that I know of won't sell to you unless you're certified to install it, even if you have a gas ticket.[/quoteThanks hvac benny. No I'm not DYI this. I have the gas company coming out Friday and I want some options to present, as they seem to be saying cooper is the only way to go.


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## KEN19 (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks Hvac Benny. No I'm not DYI this. I have the gas company coming out Friday and I want some options to present, as they seem to be saying cooper is the only way to go.


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## ernieb19 (Oct 22, 2013)

SAFER ?? Black iron pipe for gas ALLWAYS !!!safety first 1


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

ernieb19 said:


> SAFER ?? Black iron pipe for gas ALLWAYS !!!safety first 1


You are responding to a 2+ year old post. Check the dates before you leap in.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

rjniles said:


> You are responding to a 2+ year old post. Check the dates before you leap in.


This is not the only Zombie that they brought back out of the grave. Probably did a search engine search, never looked at the post date.


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

I would strongly suggest you contact you gas supplier and get their requirements. I personally so not recommend a none professional do gas. But then again I do not supply your house insurance that you will need in the advent of a fire. If said fire was traced back to your installed line they just might opt not to cover you.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

KEN19 said:


> I have a related question. I live in a rural are and there is now a problem with cooper thieves. Last week they cut the cooper tubing of my Propane gas tank and where it entered the house. Thank God they turn off the gas first. I want to know what other kind of lines can be used to replace the cooper ones.


 I had a new set of coopers stolen off my truck one time years ago ,now I just buy cheap used ones!:laughing:


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## ben's plumbing (Oct 6, 2011)

plummen said:


> I had a new set of coopers stolen off my truck one time years ago ,now I just buy cheap used ones!:laughing:


 be nice:laughing::laughing::laughing:ben sr


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Its another old post,so I figured what could it hurt?:laughing:


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## broox (Nov 30, 2010)

Barrelmaker?


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

Ghostmaker said:


> If said fire was traced back to your installed line they just might opt not to cover you.


That is pure speculation. I bet you cannot quote anything in your policy that states something that can reasonably be translated that any unpermitted gas line or electrical work resulting in fire will not be a covered peril.


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## FClef (May 5, 2013)

rosem637 said:


> That is pure speculation. I bet you cannot quote anything in your policy that states something that can reasonably be translated that any unpermitted gas line or electrical work resulting in fire will not be a covered peril.


No, but you will find that if things are not in compliance with National, State, and Local codes or were not inspected, or a permit drawn, or work was done by someone not qualified or licensed to to the work, that they may not pay.


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