# Removing a gang box without tearing up surrounding drywall



## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

Is there a trick to removing a builder installed gang box without making a mess of the surrounding drywall. I was thinking about using my dremel with a cutoff wheel and take it out in pieces, but hoping there's a better way.


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## sublime2 (Mar 21, 2012)

chuck2112 said:


> Is there a trick to removing a builder installed gang box without making a mess of the surrounding drywall. I was thinking about using my dremel with a cutoff wheel and take it out in pieces, but hoping there's a better way.


Metal or plastic? 
How us it secured to the stud? 
Most likely it is nails.
Sawzall or oscillating tool with a metal cutting blade.


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

sublime2 said:


> Metal or plastic?
> How us it secured to the stud?
> Most likely it is nails.
> Sawzall or oscillating tool with a metal cutting blade.


The box is nailed to the studs and is plastic. There are wires still coming into the box that I want to protect since they'll still be used. So I don't want to use my sawzall.

The project I'm doing is adding a motion detector to the side of my house and tapping into a interior receptacle to power it. I'll run romex down from the exterior light fixture to the interior gang box.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You still need to keep that box there. You can place an outdoor box, that fits over that existing box inside, and use that to mount your fixture. But really with the fact that Romex that is already there, and stapled inside the wall to the studs, you are not going to be ripping it out very easy.

Just use one of these over the existing box http://www.lowes.com/pd_69746-53911...L=?Ntt=electrical+box&page=1&facetInfo=REDDOT


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> You still need to keep that box there. You can place an outdoor box, that fits over that existing box inside, and use that to mount your fixture. But really with the fact that Romex that is already there, and stapled inside the wall to the studs, you are not going to be ripping it out very easy.
> 
> Just use one of these over the existing box http://www.lowes.com/pd_69746-53911...L=?Ntt=electrical+box&page=1&facetInfo=REDDOT


The interior gang is in my dining room, so aesthetics are important. I need to remove the existing gang because I will need to fish romex up to the light fixture. I think it would be next to impossible to drop the fish through the back of the existing gang, which is why I want to remove it.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

I really have no idea what Greg is suggesting, but you can either turn off power, label the existing wires (all of them), disconnect all the wires, cut the nails off the box, remove the wires from the box, remove the box, then add your fixture and wiring, then put everything back together as it was.

Or, you can break out one of the unused tabs that holds the cable to the box and fish up to your new fixture. The difficult part about this is the insulation...it makes it much more difficult.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

chuck2112 said:


> The interior gang is in my dining room, so aesthetics are important. I need to remove the existing gang because I will need to fish romex up to the light fixture. I think it would be next to impossible to drop the fish through the back of the existing gang, which is why I want to remove it.


Unless you have some custom paint job in the dining room, just cut the drywall away where the existing box is, cut lower where you are pulling the wire, if pulling from the basement, and go that route.

Of course pictures are helpful as to what your dealing with outside, and why you need to replace the existing box, just to mount the new fixture.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

k_buz said:


> I really have no idea what Greg is suggesting, but you can either turn off power, label the existing wires (all of them), disconnect all the wires, cut the nails off the box, remove the wires from the box, remove the box, then add your fixture and wiring, then put everything back together as it was.
> 
> Or, you can break out one of the unused tabs that holds the cable to the box and fish up to your new fixture. The difficult part about this is the insulation...it makes it much more difficult.


Suggesting it, because I am guessing that the OP cannot mount their new fixture to the current box for some unknown reason, and the box I linked is probably the best option for this.

Without having pictures of what the OP is dealing with, and why they need to pull the existing box, all we are going to do on this thread is just pull guesses out of the wind, and never get anywhere.

If they already have wire to the outside box, I really cannot see why they are pulling new wire, unless there is an issue with the existing wiring, or wanting to wire in a three-way switch.

Without pictures and further info, again, all we are going to be doing is pulling guesses out of the wind.


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> Unless you have some custom paint job in the dining room, just cut the drywall away where the existing box is, cut lower where you are pulling the wire, if pulling from the basement, and go that route.
> 
> Of course pictures are helpful as to what your dealing with outside, and why you need to replace the existing box, just to mount the new fixture.


No custom paint, just knock down texture that's difficult to match. Doable, but not my first choice. That's why I just want to remove/replace the box. 

As for mounting the outside fixture, I'm all set with that. There's nothing there now (no gang box or wire), just stucco wall and I'll just add a box similar to the one in the link you gave earlier.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

What is probably easier, and look nicer, is to cut a hole in the stucco and recess the box. That way, you have your access hole and you don't have to take apart the switch box.


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

gregzoll said:


> Suggesting it, because I am guessing that the OP cannot mount their new fixture to the current box for some unknown reason, and the box I linked is probably the best option for this.
> 
> Without having pictures of what the OP is dealing with, and why they need to pull the existing box, all we are going to do on this thread is just pull guesses out of the wind, and never get anywhere.
> 
> ...


Greg, sorry for the confusion and without pictures or detail after detail of the project, I know that it can be difficult to get the whole picture. 
In this case, my question is only about the interior gang, since nothing (gang/power) currently exists on the wall for the fixture and I'm all set with installing all of that. So I'm only concerned with the interior and was looking for a solution to get the existing gang out without making the hole any larger.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

I thought I understood what you were doing, but now I'm confused. If nothing exists on the wall where the new fixture is going, why are you removing a "gang box"?

Is this existing "gang box" on a different wall? If yes, how are you going to cross the studs without going into the attic?

To clear things us...what are you calling a "gang box"?


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

k_buz said:


> I thought I understood what you were doing, but now I'm confused. If nothing exists on the wall where the new fixture is going, why are you removing a "gang box"?


This is why I don't "text" on my phone, it's too easy to confuse someone or send the wrong message.:whistling2:

The side of my home that I'm installing the motion detector does not have any exterior receptacles/gang boxes, etc. So I will drill a hole saw through the stucco, send down romex, and install the gang box and fixture. On the other end of the romex, I will tie into an existing interior receptacle that is in my dining room. 

The only other option I was considering is to just drill directly through the interior gang and through the stucco. Then attach an LB and sch 40 up to where I'll install the motion detector, pulling thhn through the conduit. This 2nd option would be easier, but it wouldn't look as good.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

Cut a hole in the stucco. Then fish up from the receptacle box to the hole. Finally install a round remodel box (or pan box if you hit a stud).


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

k_buz said:


> I thought I understood what you were doing, but now I'm confused. If nothing exists on the wall where the new fixture is going, why are you removing a "gang box"?
> 
> Is this existing "gang box" on a different wall? If yes, how are you going to cross the studs without going into the attic?
> 
> To clear things us...what are you calling a "gang box"?


My bad, gang box for the switch/receptacle. Round J box for the fixture.


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## k_buz (Mar 22, 2012)

Stop calling it a gang box. It's a recept box or a switch box. If there are multiple devices in the box it's a 2 gang switch box, 3 gang switch box....


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

You are not allowed by the electric code to have lighting on the dining room receptacle circuit.


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## herdfan (Jul 7, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> You are not allowed by the electric code to have lighting on the dining room receptacle circuit.


Even if that lighting is not actually in the dining room?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

No lighting, regardless of location.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

k_buz said:


> Stop calling it a gang box. It's a recept box or a switch box. If there are multiple devices in the box it's a 2 gang switch box, 3 gang switch box....


 A gangbox is a place to dump tools at the end of the day ,A single/2/3 or 4 gang box is for wiring.:laughing:


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## chuck2112 (Aug 26, 2011)

Jim Port said:


> You are not allowed by the electric code to have lighting on the dining room receptacle circuit.


That's good to know. I'll check my local code for more info. But it doesn't make much sense to me since the lighting would be an "add-on" outside.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Those circuits typically also power the kitchen receptacles where large draw appliances like coffee makers and toasters are used.


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## mikegp (Jul 17, 2011)

Here's a thought that might help, but might look a little silly. If you convert your 1 gang box to a two gang box it will make it easy to remove it. 

You just cut the existing hole wide enough to fit in a 2 gang old work box(make sure you know what side the stud is on). You'll now have access to the nails holding the box to the stud and can pull them out with pliers. Install the two gang old work box and either add another receptacle so you can plug in 4 devices or use one of those hybrid covers that have a phone or cable jack on the other side. You might not love it, but guests aren't likely to think twice about it.

This will also give you a huge hole to work with for fishing through the wall.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Jim Port said:


> Those circuits typically also power the kitchen receptacles where large draw appliances like coffee makers and toasters are used.


Dining should not, since it should be on its own circuit, that would also feed the baseboard outlets in the Kitchen (ie gas stove 120 can be on this circuit).

If the person who did the circuit design did it correct, they would have made it so that you could pull a future circuit later. Now of course, if the OP would be able to pull from the circuit that feeds the front doorway lighting, or garage lighting if attached, vs. pulling a single feed from the panel to feed this lighting circuit.

My backdoor entry along with outside lighting, comes off of the same circuit that feeds the Kitchen lighting. Front entry & front door outside comes off of the Living room outlet & ceiling lighting circuit. This is due to how it was done back in the day. Even today, you run into where the lighting for outdoors is setup the same way, or feeds off of the outdoor outlet circuit, that has a gfci on it.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Mikegp, finding someone with small hands usually helps, in having them grab the wire as it is pulled down with fish sticks. I always tear mine up, when trying to reach into a single gang cutout. Looks like I have been fighting with the family cat, when I get done.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> Dining should not, since it should be on its own circuit, that would also feed the baseboard outlets in the Kitchen (ie gas stove 120 can be on this circuit).
> 
> If the person who did the circuit design did it correct, they would have made it so that you could pull a future circuit later. Now of course, if the OP would be able to pull from the circuit that feeds the front doorway lighting, or garage lighting if attached, vs. pulling a single feed from the panel to feed this lighting circuit.
> 
> My backdoor entry along with outside lighting, comes off of the same circuit that feeds the Kitchen lighting. Front entry & front door outside comes off of the Living room outlet & ceiling lighting circuit. This is due to how it was done back in the day. Even today, you run into where the lighting for outdoors is setup the same way, or feeds off of the outdoor outlet circuit, that has a gfci on it.


Thats why Ive always run seperate circuits for every room,I still run a seperate lighting circuit for the kitchen and another for dining room lights though since I always run 20a circuits for all kitchen and dining circuits independent from each other of course.


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