# No access to Main shut off until spring and kitchen faucet is broken



## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Find a different plumber. Many plumbers have equipment to freeze a copper pipe to shut off the water for repairs. Make sure he installs stops for the new faucet. Installing a shut off in the house to shut off all the water is a great idea. What would you do if you had a major leak, wait a few weeks for the city while the house is destroyed?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Like rjniles suggested---call a different plumber--There as several ways to change a main shutoff without shutting off the water at the street. The freeze method is the safest in this situation.

Here is one I used last month when a jack hammer hit and crushed the copper main--with 2 feet of snow covering the Buffalo box.Crushed Water Main--Happy Accident - General Discussion - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> and the main shut-off is broken. The plumber can not replace the main because the city can't shut off the water from the outside for weeks. Why?


Ayuh,... You can always just swap out the main valve, Without turning off the supply...
I've done it,...
Ya might get alittle wet, but it's perfectly Doable....


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## calgal (Mar 8, 2011)

Great advice. Thanks all. I should clarify that typically the city can come shut off the water on the same day. The sidewalk issue is an unusual one. I will help her find a plumber who will freeze the line. Maybe we'll just open the door and let winter in! LOL. 

Bondo, I may go for it and swap out the kitchen tap with the water on.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

Where is the water meter? That's usually where the shutoff valve would be. And you wouldn't need the city to do anything - curb keys can be purchased at most big box stores. 

Why would a shutoff valve be underneath a sidewalk?


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## calgal (Mar 8, 2011)

Here is one I used last month when a jack hammer hit and crushed the copper main--with 2 feet of snow covering the Buffalo box.Crushed Water Main--Happy Accident - General Discussion - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum[/quote]

Neat product. Their site says not to use the device with the water on. Am I understanding you correctly and you used it successfully with water pressure fully on? Sure sounds worth a try for the 1/2 inch supply lines to the kitchen tap.


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## calgal (Mar 8, 2011)

md2lgyk said:


> Where is the water meter? That's usually where the shutoff valve would be. And you wouldn't need the city to do anything - curb keys can be purchased at most big box stores.
> 
> Why would a shutoff valve be underneath a sidewalk?


Calling the city is SOP here in Calgary. The plumber isn't allowed to turn off water from the street. The city had to come out when I had my main valve replaced. Believe it or not, not everyone is on a meter yet. My friend isn't.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I had the water blasting full tilt---No choice,really.

A compression ball valve (with the valve in the open position) can be slipped over a running line--then tightened and closed.---Messy but it can and has been done many times.


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## ferris13 (Sep 25, 2009)

Sorry, I don't know the details but figured I would post and let the folks here investigate. Looks like a solution that may not get you as WET as the others.

CRAZY EXPENSIVE though...(that Jet Swet kit was $250 also) 

http://www.boilersupplies.com/ballvalve/add-a-valve.html

There is a you tube video that shows the install. Just search "Add-a-valve install".


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

oh'mike said:


> I had the water blasting full tilt---No choice,really.
> 
> A compression ball valve (with the valve in the open position) can be slipped over a running line--then tightened and closed.---Messy but it can and has been done many times.


Ayuh,... Exactly how I did it Mike,...

3/4" copper from the street...

Luckily, it was in a well drained Cellar...
Be a real mess inside the house...


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

The one I did recently had a nice big trench in the floor----that was handy.

I did a live cut in on the second floor of a town house once---I sure didn't charge enough for that --

All went well---but I aged ten years ---talk about a possible disaster--The things we do when we're young and invincible!!


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

I would try the one oh'mike mentioned the compression valve it sounds like the cheapest and most logical.
I would open every cold faucet I could find to try to lower the pressure on the main.
If I had a PRV I would reset it to the lowest setting.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

May be difficult to find someone who does it, but in the Navy a few times we used a freeze seal when there was no other way to isolate something that was leaking.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

I feel bad for your friend - but if I were in your shoes I would offer to help pay for a plumber before I messed around with this. 



calgal said:


> I am helping a friend who has been without her kitchen faucet for a month.


 If she's been without it for a month I bet she could live with it for a few more weeks.



calgal said:


> My friend has young kids and the situation is getting scary.


What will be really scary is cutting the pipe trying to fix it while the water is running and not being able to stop it.

Seriously, if you are a friend and _not_ a plumber are you *100% POSITIVE* that you can do this repair? What happens if you succeed in the repair but cause damage to her house?

I've been in a situation once where I had no shut-off at a tub and broke a pipe. In the time it took me to RUN down two flights of stairs to the shut off in the basement a STAGGERING amount of water poured out into my bathroom/hall. It took every towel in my house to soak it all up.


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## calgal (Mar 8, 2011)

*Mission accomplished!!!*

Mission accomplished! I went with the compression valve over running water. Only a slight flood and it is very clean under the sink now.  Worked like a charm. My friend was so happy she cried! Thank you everyone!!:thumbsup:


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

md2lgyk said:


> May be difficult to find someone who does it, but in the Navy a few times we used a freeze seal when there was no other way to isolate something that was leaking.


 
BT, MM or A gang.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm pleased---It takes a lot of nerve to do that----You've got a good friend there.---Mike---


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## Pistol Pete (Sep 23, 2010)

So...what if Murphy rears his ugly head while you've got the pipe cut off and spewing? Is there a Plan B?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

calgal said:


> Mission accomplished! I went with the compression valve over running water. Only a slight flood and it is very clean under the sink now.  Worked like a charm. My friend was so happy she cried! Thank you everyone!!:thumbsup:


So glad you had a good resolution! :thumbsup: I am sure your friend was super grateful.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Pistol Pete said:


> So...what if Murphy rears his ugly head while you've got the pipe cut off and spewing? Is there a Plan B?



That's the trouble with this---It is plan 'C' already.:laughing:


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

COLDIRON said:


> BT, MM or A gang.


Nuke ET1(SS)


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## Homerepairguy (Aug 1, 2010)

calgal said:


> Mission accomplished! I went with the compression valve over running water. Only a slight flood and it is very clean under the sink now.  Worked like a charm. My friend was so happy she cried! Thank you everyone!!:thumbsup:


Congrats on having the guts to attempt the repair with no way to shut off the city water if Murphy struck, and being successful at it. Waaaay more guts than I would ever have.

I hope your friend has a main shut off valve installed asap, where the city water enters her home and when the city can shut off the water. It's inconceivable to me how a main shut off valve can be under the sidewalk requiring it to be busted to get at it.

Ever find out why the shut off valve is under the sidewalk?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Home---I've seen that in an older area where sidewalks never existed---New sidewalks over buried shutoff.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Some of the plumbers here have balls. I keep thinking of all the times I cut a pipe and the time it takes me to dress the pipe end to have it fit the fitting. Then I think of what that must be like to have to do that while the pipe is blasting full on. Just so many things to go wrong with out a safety net in sight.
Glad it all worked out.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> Home---I've seen that in an older area where sidewalks never existed---New sidewalks over buried shutoff.


Same here. Also seen 6" of topsoil and sod over them. Or you know where the shut off is but the valve riser has 12" of rocks or dirt in it. (our curb stops are 5' deep)


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

A lot of ours are in the driveways----They must get paved over a lot.


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## calgal (Mar 8, 2011)

*Foud valve*

We are having a chinook which means plus temperatures. The city showed up at my friends door, to our surprise. Much nicer guys. Different mandate. They took their time to try and figure the situation out. They unearthed the valve under the sidewalk and it was in the OFF position.  They retraced the line and found a second valve buried one foot down NOT under the sidewalk. Turns out the lot was originally meant to be a duplex. THe useless second valve was most likely intentionally buried under the sidewalk. The best part is that the city does not archive any of this information. All guesswork. The burden is on the homeowner to remember where the valve is and to hopefully pass that info on to any future owners. Crazy. THanks again everyone for the great responses.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

calgal said:


> We are having a chinook which means plus temperatures.


Yay! Hope things start to thaw out soon. We're well on our way to spring - so it's headed your way :thumbsup: Maples are blooming, crocuses, and daffodils.



calgal said:


> The city showed up at my friends door, to our surprise. Much nicer guys. Different mandate. They took their time to try and figure the situation out.


Hooray for helpful people. May I suggest that your friend contact the city to complement the 'nicer guys'. Most of the time Utility workers hear complaints - I'm sure it would make their day if she passed on her praise.



calgal said:


> The best part is that the city does not archive any of this information. All guesswork. The burden is on the homeowner to remember where the valve is and to hopefully pass that info on to any future owners. Crazy.


*facepalm. This sort of thing bugs me. I leave notes to the future around my house. Sometimes out in the open: I wrote on the garage wall next to outlets that are controlled by an hard to find GFCI. Sometimes covert: using my labeler to make little tags that hide well. 



calgal said:


> THanks again everyone for the great responses.


What I like about this thread was that people weighed in with *very differing opinions* about what you should do. You read them all, weighed the pros and cons, and then made an independent decisions based on what you read. Best of all you helped your friend... which is priceless.


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