# Table or Circular saw for cutting 16" from 4x8



## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> When doing the closet, I need to cut a 16" x 96" from a 4x8 3/4 plywood....
> 
> as this is a big piece of wood from a big piece of wood... I am figuring whether I should use a circular saw or table saw to make the cut.... knowing that table saw can do a better straight cut... but such a big/heavy piece to move along table saw would be difficult... circular saw is easy to manipulate but may not be able to make an as good straight cut as table saw...
> 
> ...


Its just as easy to make a straight cut with a circular saw in my opinion. I have a straight piece of aluminum about 2 inches wide by 8 feet long and about 1/4" thick. I simply clamp the metal on top of the 4X8 sheet exactly 1.5 inches(this is the distance on the saw from the outside of the quide to the blade) from the line I need to cut and then just run the circular guide along the piece of metal all the way down. Just as straight as a table saw in my opinion. 

All you need is two clamps and something rigid, 8 feet long, and straight. A piece of wood would work too.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

tigerbalm2424 said:


> Its just as easy to make a straight cut with a circular saw in my opinion. I have a straight piece of aluminum about 2 inches wide by 8 feet long and about 1/4" thick. I simply clamp the metal on top of the 4X8 sheet exactly 1.5 inches(this is the distance on the saw from the outside of the quide to the blade) from the line I need to cut and then just run the circular guide along the piece of metal all the way down. Just as straight as a table saw in my opinion.
> 
> All you need is two clamps and something rigid, 8 feet long, and straight. A piece of wood would work too.


 
I would agree with you if I could use the circular saw guide, but the guide is only good for 10" , and I need 16" ... that means I cannot use the guide and have to do it bare eye/hand which is a bit concern me... and I am thinking you have to go nonstop 8' while running the saw which also tough, as once you stop and start again, the edge will show somthing I believe...


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> I would agree with you if I could use the circular saw guide, but the guide is only good for 10" , and I need 16" ... that means I cannot use the guide and have to do it bare eye/hand which is a bit concern me... and I am thinking you have to go nonstop 8' while running the saw which also tough, as once you stop and start again, the edge will show somthing I believe...


Quick rendition. I meant the guide on the circular saw. Just use the circular, you dont need the table saw.


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## tigerbalm2424 (Feb 28, 2007)

Oops, those numbers arent correct. the 16 inches should be measure to the blade, not the guide. The black thing labeled guide is meant to be the 8 foot piece of metal that is clamped down on the 4X8 sheet of wood. The side of the circular saw just runs along the edge of the metal guide. Its very simple. 

And yes, you would need to cut a continuous 8 foot cut. How did you expect to do it with the table saw?


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks a lot, what a inspiration... that prove it is always good to ask... so I guess you mean to create a manual guide of thing instead of using those metal thing which come with the saw... I see.. wonder how come I couldn't figure that out... I guess I don't necessary use a metal guide, I can in fact use a 2x4 as guide as well as long as I cah clamp th thing onto the wood.... for your other question table saw, stop and restart is not that big a issue as table saw handle that much better.... but I agree with you I am going to use the circular saw... 

now please someone answer my painting question...


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

A 2x4 might not be as straight as you want it and the small imperfections and wood surface might cause your circular saw to hang up or move unevenly.

They also make reasonable priced guides that clamp to your circular saw that will cut up to about 24" wide from plywood. I got one at sears a few years ago that works fine.

Can't answer your paint questions but obviously you should choose plywood suitable for painting.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

You just clamp a straight edge to the work and run the saw against it.
You do not use drywall mud on plywood in preparation for painting. You sand it and prime it with a primer made for wood. If you do not want to see the plies telegraph through the primer, veneer it first.
And you NEVER let your wife help you manuver a 4x8 sheet of anything on a table saw unless you want to spend some quality time in the Emergency room.
Ron


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thank you guys, I did it this morning... I did use a 2x4 as a guide which I see it is pretty straight or straight enough for me... I draw the line first and find the 2x4 is kind of fall onto the line to ensure it being straight... the cut goes smoothly.... I would think it is rahter difficult to find a steel metal guide 8' long and I don't want to buy it either...I didn't use drywall mud... I did sand a bit... but then I just use the leftover drywall primer to paint it.. as I don't want to purchase another can of primer thinking they probably about the same... so you probably now know I am not a prefectionist.... anyway... it seems ok... afterall... it just a for a closet... don't want to kill myself for it....thanks again everyone...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*veneer*



Ron6519 said:


> If you do not want to see the plies telegraph through the primer, veneer it first. Ron


How do you "veneer" the plywood?, like with what material...

thanks...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Just attach a thin strip of wood trim to the edges, and sand it flush to the surface of the plywood. You can use glue and brad nails, or some biscuits, or a tongue and groove arrangement to hold it in place. For painted work, bondo wood filler also works very well to obscure edges of plywood, or fill voids and grain in the surface. It's very quick to apply, easy to sand, quick drying.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks, Natehanson, just to confirm, I guess you mean this 

http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-71932/Detail

not those tooth-paste type wood filler which is a pain to apply

Can I get this from HD as I don't recall seeing them before... I suppose the are easy to apply like using a paint bush kind of stuff....

cutting thin wood strip...etc. is kind of too much work... don't mind doing that if I am building a desk... but for a closet shelf... kind of too much work.. rather than leave it alone... but that wood filler if easy to do I wouldn't mind doing that...

that


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

solid wood edging is more sensible for furniture that will not be painted, or is higher end painted work. For basic stuff, the bondo will work fine. I believe I've bought it near the adhesives section in Home Depot.


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## MinConst (Nov 23, 2004)

Bondo is an automotive body filler product that works well on wood repairs.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*kuiporng*

I want to see a picture of your closet......


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Hi Yummy Mummy,

I am in the process of making the closet, will show you when it done... I didn't bother to show the old one for comparison as just too lazy to take picture... when I doing so much handy work thing... digital thing become high tech thing for me and I am kind of not used to it although I am working as a computer person as my job ... but when I went home... I am a different person....

anyway... I found out yesterday... I should have use Maple wood rather than Plywood... so I refund the plywood and scrap one piece for future use... Maple wood is so much nicer... I now even want to stain it rahter than white paint it... gee ... things do get change when you start doing it... now I care about the edge cover as I don't want it to look bad at any angle... I am going to HD at lunch hour to check it out.... just Don't use Plywood.... use Maple.... for everything.... fyi... ply wood cost $30 bucks... maple cost $55 buckss... but the quality/look is 10 fold... buy the 4x8 one... cost much less from any angle you look at them than those smaller pieces...

re-read NataHanson post (obviously he is an experienced guy)... I need to do solid edging as well as I am staining it... Do I need a router kind of stuff do generate this solid edging stuff... or do they sell ready made one for 3/4" thickness.... thanks....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

You can get iron-on maple edge banding. It is very thin (probably about 1/32") and sold in rolls at a woodworking store. That would be easiest, however, it's not always as durable as it should be, and can be chipped or worn off. 

Lumber yards sell solid maple boards (3/4" thick) which you can rip down to 1/4" wide strips, and glue/brad-nail them onto your edges, sanding them flush to the surface of the plywood. These will be more durable, but not perfect. Best would be to use a router or tablesaw to create a tongue on the plywood edge, and saw a groove into the back of your maple edging. Then glue them together. This would be the strongest edging. 

Nate


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Hi Nate,

Thanks again... gee.. you really knows a lot... may be it is basic information... but to me who know nothing... it is a lot of information...

Just went off HD... I bought the bongo filler you are talking about though yesterday(although they don't call it that way)... but now you mentioned this iron-on maple edging stuff... may be I need to check it out again may be refund this guy.... I have no idea where the lumber yard are in my area and the tonque and gloove is probably wait too much that I can handle as I have no idea how to use router or what exactly it is "yet"... 

so between this "bongo" stuff and "iron-on" stuff... which will produce a better result or they are about the same... and consider I am doing staining.. does it has any effect which way should go ...

also, I bought a can of pre-stain, a can of stain, and a can of poly... is this pre-stain stuff really necessary or it is a waste of money stuff, it said it will let the stain distributed evently....etc...

thanks a lot

for whoever may be interested... I spent 242 bucks so far... I think I made the right decision to DIY... for one they sure wouldn't give you maple wood....probably MFD like all those book shelfs you get from IKEA...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

If you are painting, the bondo will be better than the iron-on banding, which could chip, and is more work. 

If you want to stain, you can't use bondo. It is grey, and will look horrible if you stain it. The iron on banding will be best. You'll need to use a razor, chisel, handplane, or specific edge-band trimming tool to cut it flush to the plywood. Make sure you are cutting in the direction that the grain is pointing away from you, so it doesn't tear the edge-banding. (For example, if the grain is going //////// you cut >>> left to right on the top, and <<<right to left on the bottom.)

I'm not sure what this "pre-stain" is that you're talking about. Maybe it's a sanding sealer? That's basically a thin finish (often shellac or thinned poly, I think), which you apply, then sand lightly. It is good for getting a smoother finish. I don't know about staining over it. Personally I don't use oil pigment stains (which is what minwax type products are) because they produce a very muddy finish on the wood, and collect in the pores of the wood. So I can't tell you much about how to apply them. I would think that you could apply them over a sealer, but they will not stain very darkly. I use water stains, which are much more forgiving and very natural looking. You can get them at a woodworking store. To use those, first wipe the unfinished wood with a wet cloth, allow it to dry, and then lightly sand off the wood fibers which will be raised by the moisture. Then wipe on the water stain with a foam brush. If it is uneven, or there are runs, just wipe it with a nearly dry cloth. The stain will dry in an hour or less, and you can then coat with any finish that is not water-based.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks again... here is the story then

the bongo stuff I got they don't call it bongo but something like wood filler etc.etc. and is labelled as stainable/sandable

the pre-stain stuff I got is from MiniMax and they said help the wood to absorb the stain evenly, not the sealer/sanding stuff you are talking about

and I bought the oil based stuff only as the store staff said it looks better than water based....

gee don't know if I did it all wrong... but since I alread bought it, I am going to scrafice a small piece or two pieces to try them out all these things... 

gee this closet thing taking me longer... hope my wife wont bug me saying no closet for a week or two stuff... at least she can still take her bath...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Wood filler usually doesn't harden, and can't be sanded. Bondo is a polyester resin based filler that sets up in about an hour to a hard sandable finish. 

I doubt home depot has water stains. They may have water-based finishes (with stain in them), but I'm talking about powdered dyes that you add water to, and they disolve in it. The problem with oil pigments is that they are not disolved in the finish, they're just pieces of color junk that are suspended in the mineral spirits, and they get smeared onto your workpiece. They don't dye the wood, they just sit on top of it to give it color.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

now you scare me... should I refund all the stuff and go to BanjaminMoore to try my luck at least they got better reputation on paints may be stain stuff as well...

the wood filler stuff they said hardened and sand...in a couple of hours etc and with light wood color etc.etc.... gee... that one I am going to try as if it works, safe me a lot of headache...

regarding oil stain color etc... are there someone out there has other opinion as well.. not that I don't trust Nate... just always help to hear more opinion... 

for sure HD don't got that dye thing mix with water... all they sell is ready made cans stuff which u can use right away.... gee this painting stuff seems getting complicated if I need to mix with water like mixing thinset.... 

thanks for spending time to explain to me... Nate... may you tell me a little bit about your wood working background as you seems knows a lot...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm a designer and builder of high-end custom furniture. I went to the "Furniture Institute of Massachusetts" for 2 years, studying with Philip C. Lowe. 

If you want more wood-finishing options, i wouldn't go to Benjamin Moore. I'd go to a woodworking store. Around here it would be a Woodcraft or Rockler store. Woodworker's Supply is a good online resource.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

*NateHanson*

I would love to see some of the designs of your custom furniture.

:yes:


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*update*

used the HD stuff... they are fine... stain is easy to apply... the wood filler stuff on edge is good enough for my purpose... they are very similar to do tapping on drywall.. the pre-stain stuff I really not sure if they have any purpose , but used them anyway ... 

my wife is already bugging me saying taking too long... got to finsh the basic skelaton today or tommorrow...

not much to ask today seems I kind of got everything figure out by now...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Glad things are working out Kuiporng.


yummy mummy said:


> I would love to see some of the designs of your custom furniture.
> 
> :yes:


Here's a detail of one of my favorites. This is a small ovular drop-leaf table (pembroke table). It's about 40" wide. Perfect for tea for two.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Beautiful, NateHanson!

Is that inlaid wood?
I have a jewellery box from Italy, that looks something like that.
I believe it is called inlaid wood?


You are a true craftsman! :yes:


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

don't know I will try that in my life time... this is kind of outside my league... but very nice...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*Actually I do have a question:*

While using the oil base stain, the instruction says wipe off the excess with a clean cloth... and said don't wait until it dry out before wipping out the excess... that leads me to a question: how long I should wait before wipping out the excess normally... I know different weather has a different answer... but just approx... do I wipe them off in 1 minutes, 2 minutes, 10 minutes. 15 minutes... as I worried about it got dry out so I kind of wipping them off 2 to 3 minutes after last night... I don't know if I should wait longer as looks like a lot of them come out... I guess it doesn't harm as I might waste some stains and need to apply more layers... but if I have a ball-park wait time it would help...

thanks...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

yummy mummy said:


> Beautiful, NateHanson!
> 
> Is that inlaid wood?


Thanks. Yes, it's inlay. The primary wood is mahogany. The white stringing and flowers are holly. The background of the oval inlay is Claro Walnut. The banding around the table edge is holly and rosewood.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*People, I really need help this time...*

last night go back try to apply poly... couldn't make it work... I think the HD guy screw me.... that's what I come up to... don't ask HD people question.. they could harm you. Here is the story:

I ask them what tool to use to apply Poly, I was thinking to buy a foam bush... this guy, looks so experience, instead ask me to buy stain pad which is for applying stain.... I then asked him do I need to wipe out excess... he said, Oh ! yes... so basically he kind of tell me the way to apply Poly is identical to applying stain... and back home try that... it is a mess... 

anyway... I hope I can reapply Poly to make the surface looks good again using foam bush... the instruction on the Veterphane oil base poly doesn't say it need to sand between layer... as I don't have foam bush on hand, I tried to use a regular brush last night, find out there is tiny small particle left ... I wonder this is normal or not... I am a bit worry when I soak the stain pad onto the can (using the HD method), some of the stain particles drop into the can making the poly a mixture of poly and stains ...anyway... I will search the web see the proper way of doing it.... 

thanks if you can help ...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

You definitely don't want to wipe off poly (or any film-finish) after applying it. In fact, you want to apply a finish with as few strokes as possible. It is not like painting, where you can stroke back through it a few times to even it out. 

Instead you want to just allow the finish to flow out of the brush (or foam brush) as you move it across the workpiece. With an oil-based finish, you may then want to go back over it once to even it out. But then move on, and make your next stroke right next to the last one. 

If you have an uneven or dirty/linty/hairy surface from your first attempt you should sand it with 220 or 400 grit paper, lightly, until smooth to the touch. Then reapply. 

Many finishes don't REQUIRE sanding between coats, but that simply means that a second coat will chemically bond to the prior coat without sanding. 

Even with those finishes that don't require sanding for a good bond, should be sanded very lightly with 400 grit paper, to knock down any dust spots or roughness before recoating. If you run your hand over the dry finish, you'll feel the roughness. Just lightly rub a 400 grit paper over that finish, avoiding any corners (where it is too easy to sand through the finish). Then run your hand over it again, and you'll notice the much smoother surface. Before recoating, blow, wipe, or vacuum off any dust and lint, and try to keep dust down while the finish is drying. 

(This is one reason I prefer shellac finishes - they dry to the touch in about 5 minutes, so in a typical small shop, there is less chance for dust to settle on the wet finish, and mess it up.)

Good luck!


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Definitely don't listen to anything anyone at HD or any other big box store tells you. If they knew what they were talking about they wouldn't be working at HD - they would be working at the trade.

And tell your wife to either relax or get off her rear and help out. Well, maybe in more delicate words.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks Nate, now I know why my neighbour goes with painting rather than staining for his newly creaed daughter table......

this stain/poly thing is so.......so....so.... much time/work... out of my expectation...... but... I already got my hair wet..... will have to continue.... need good explanation to my BOSS now why things take longer..... I will ask her to hang all the cloths first... and wait for the shelf to come.....

so "shellac finishes" is a brand name or a kind of finishing like gloss/semi-gloss...etc. I probably am going to buy another can of poly worrying the one I had already got corrupted last night...

this morning due to last night mistakes (apply like stain), I saw some dull spots on the surface rather than gloss.. when sun shine on the wood ... I hope those thing can be fixed when I do it right this time, won't it....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Yes, wood finishing is a HUGE amount of work. That table I posted a picture of above took about 3 weeks to build, and almost a week to finish and polish. Basically, the finish was almost $1000 worth of the work in that piece. But if you're building in fine wood, with careful attention to detail, you'd never think of finishing any other way. Paint has it's place, but not on fine furniture, in my opinion. Save it for the house.

Uneveness in your first coat is to be expected. The wood absorbs the finish unevenly, so the first coat is really just to seal up the wood. (it is often applied a bit thinner than the subsequent coats) 

If you're seeing uneven sheen in the final coat, you should rub it out with 0000 (very fine) steel wool, until the sheen is uniformly satin. Then you can add some gloss with a paste wax (like minwax floor wax) or you can polish the finish with things like pumice and rottenstone, or buffing compounds. But that is really more than you'll want to get into for a closet shelf. Rubbing out the finish so diligently is more appropriate for fine furniture finishes. 

You'll probably have reasonably even finish with the 3rd coat, and can just leave it at that, with no rubbing out. If you do any rubbing out, just do it with 0000 steel wool, and leave it at a satin finish. 

Shellac is a traditional type of finish. It's a product of tree sap which is excreted by the Lac Bettle, a bug that feeds on the sap, and leaves deposits of shellac behind it as it moves along. That bug poo is collected from the twigs of the tree, cleaned up and refined a bit, and then dried into flakes. To apply it to wood, the shellac is dissolved in Denatured Alcohol at a rate of about 1 pound per gallon for a first coat, or 2 pounds per gallon for finish coats. You brush it on like poly, although it dries so fast that you can't brush back through it at all. The fumes are completely non-toxic, and pleasant. It is easily applied and repaired, but not quite as water or alcohol resistant as alkyd or polyurethane varnishes. 
However, it's much more natural and beautiful looking than varnishes. 

You can buy it at home depot in pre-mixed cans. (probably a "Bullseye" brand product). You want it "dewaxed". This stuff is ok, but not quite as nice looking as dried shellac that you can buy at a woodworking store, or online, and dissolve in alcohol yourself. 

You won't want to use shellac for this project, because it cannot be applied over Polyurethane. (although it can be applied UNDER poly, as a sealer, or as build coats). It takes a little practice to apply, but I'd encourage anyone who is interested in furnituremaking to give it a try sometime. It's a great finish for the small shop.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks.... now I know why the builder charge me an optional piece of 1 by 8 wood for $200 bucks in our kitchen carbinet... when I figure the cost of the wood itself may be only $20....


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*bought a new tool... use it?*

consider I need to do so much sanding... I bought the Dewalt 5" Orbital Sander variable speed plus vacuum...

Can I use it to sand the between layer poly? using 220 paper... Or I have to do it by hand... and I should refund the tool... or probably, I won't refund the tool but use it for other processes...

thanks


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Keep the tool for other purposes. 

Only sand between finish coats by hand. 220 is a little on the coarse side. 320 or 400 is preferable.


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

Umm....are you making shelves?


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Yes I am closet selves....

it would have been done by now... if I paint....

but I choose to stain when I didn't know what I am getting into... 

now I am getting more and more involve in this wood working business which I have minimum experience with...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Good for you Kuiporng!

What colour is the stain that you are doing?
I bet there are not too many closets that have maple wood in it, that is stained?

From now on you have to leave the doors open to the closet so that everyone can see them.
And for about $300 bucks, you're laughing.

You should open up your own business with this handiwork that you do. I bet you know a lot more than some of the "professionals" out there.

When will you post pics?


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

OK. For that length of a shelf, you'll need a front support added or the shelf will sag on you. The easiest way to do this is add a 1x2 to the front of the shelf. Not only will it add strength, but it will hide the edge of the plywood and give the shelf a substatial look. 

One way to install this would be to cut a rabbet 3/4 x 1/2" along the 1x2, glue it to the plywood and countersink a couple small wood screws to hold everything in place as the glue dries.

If you're familliar with tablesaw cuts, you could also cut a 3/4 groove the length of the 1x about 3/8" from the top surface. This method will give excellent strength to the shelf, hide the plywood edge and provide a 3/8" lip to the front of the shelf so nothing rolls off.


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

One more thing, 'Bondo' is used on cars not woodwork.:yes:


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Jeekinz said:


> One more thing, 'Bondo' is used on cars not woodwork.:yes:


Sure, but nothings better for filling MDF edges, or filling voids in ply before paint.


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

Sorry, there are other products out there that are closer to the properties of wood. He's using maple ply shelving, in 3 pages there wasn't one iota of installing support for 8' long shelves. Now he has maple shelves with no support, a screwed up finish from an idiot at HD, and a can of  Bondo. :no:


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Actually he has a can of bongo which sounds like it might be illegal, LOL. 

I think the poly finish will turn out great with some light sanding and a couple more coats. I agree with the need for the support. Hang in there "K" - it will turn out ok!

PS - you would be surprised at how usefull bondo is for many things besides auto bodies. "K" started off wanting a paint finish and thats why the bondo was suggested for the edge voids.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*Another Update*

Installed some parts of the shelf last weekend, here is what we found out:

- staining definitely looks good. we like it....
- using oil base I believe is a mistake... why... take too long to wait and the big smell... I am going to try water base on my next closet.
- it is a good learning experience and the outcome is good. I recommend it to everyone... 


Now small questions:

- when I used the form brush to apply the poly, it is good for the first time... but second layer the form brush come apart, the pad fall out of the stick... is there any trick to store the brush while it is waiting the four or more hours for the second layer....I tried two approach, both no good, one is to drop it in pain thiner...second is to put it inside a plastic bag... last time I just used a regular brush to save this harrsel... but form brush is nicer if I know how to resue it... don't want to buy a new one for every layer....

- going to try the iron on thing rahter than the wood filler approach... because wife said the wood filler approach still not look as nice... but it looks ok... so what ever done will leave it... for new ones will try the iron on thing...

and thanks for the tips on the shelf for post upstair (Jeekinz) ... so far all the shelf I made has hanging stuff inside, so support is not a problem... but I am going to build som shelf which does not and your idea is perfect thanks.

Actually, now I remember, the shelf I intend which can be put to flessible locations... so I was thinking to use those Ikea idea which have a whole bunch of small holes on the for side and with those small cylinder steel insert into the holes for support... but Jeekinz idea is good for fix shelf... I may need to think about this more... because to be honest, once the shelf setup... never really move it around....

Jeekinz, how do you use table saw to do the groove cut... I know you can do the other one... but for groove....how do you do it...


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

The foam brushes can only be used for a certain amount of time before they fall apart. You can use just a rag to apply the stain, then use a good brush to apply the poly. If you use a cheap brush on the poly, you will get loose bristles in the finish. So get a good brush, but clean it after you use it. The poly needs to fully dry before the next coat. Lightly sand the first coat with 220.

For the shelving, even with the shelf being supported on both sides, 3/4" plywood _will still bow_. These shelve are upside down, but you get the idea:












To make the grove, the easiest way is with a dado blade. If you don't have a dado blade, you will need to carefully measure out the thickness of the shelf and make multiple passes on the table saw to achieve the groove.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanks ... but as the shelf is not to be use for heavy items like books... and it is not that wide... like 20" only so I am going to not to do this for this time... but this is definitely good knowledge stuff... for the future projects now that I kind of like wood working a lot and hope one day I can start working with Router ...

anyway... thanks for the foam/brush information... I do use a quality brush... my question is then how exactly do you store/clean the brush... what I did is I just soak it into a metal can of paint thinner... when ready to be used again... I take it out and try to dry it thoroughly against some cotten cloths... needless to say... the paint thinner got all the color in it...

also some other tips for beginner like me:

- start finish the rough face first rather than the good face for a pice of wood, two reasons: get experience... and the last face I did is facing up to wait... for stuff... and the down face sometime got screw up for things underneath...

- don't do any cutting while poly is wait to be dry... or try to do all cutting at a completely different time when finishing is in process.... no matter how far you do, like me try to cut in the lawn... dust still find its way onto the surface

- use water base for DIY's beginner sake... although I haven't tried it myself yet on this one

- you need a lot of cotton old cloths....


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

Here's some more detail on the cut. Use a srap piece of wood to check for fit first, so you don't ruin a good piece of lumber. After the second cut, slightly move the fence to 'nibble' away at the rest of the waste.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

cool... picture tells a thousand words...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Without a dado blade (I assume Kuiporng is using a small benchtop table-saw, so he can't put a dado on it), it is probably best to cut a rabbet instead. (Like in the photo Jeekinz posted). Lay the piece flat, and make a cut 3/4" from the edge, and 1/4" deep. Then stand the piece up against the fence, with that shallow cut facing the blade, and towards the bottom of the workpiece. Make a 3/4" deep cut that meets the 1/4" deep cut you made first. 

(Maybe Jeekinz needs to illustrate my posts for me. )


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I got that figure out.... how about the drawer's face piece, can I also do that with table saw rather than a router? you know the drawer's face is like it edge are all trimed somewhat around the perimeter.... 

also what is the best way to clean/store brush when it done with poly ...ready for next use...

thanks a lot for all the help all along... I am getting there.... it just kind of a slow process... but it is fun, would be best if the smell isn't there...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Clean the brush with brush cleaner, wash with soap and water, dry completely, store wrapped in brown paper to keep it straight. 

Regarding your question on the drawers, I think you're asking about putting a rabbet around 3 or 4 sides of overlapped drawer fronts? That can be done as I described for the shelf edging. Just set your saw for the first cut, and cut all three or 4 edges (I usually don't overlap the bottom edge, because it tends to get broken off over time). Then stand the piece up against the fence, and make your other cuts for all 3 or 4 edges. If you are cutting out a square rabbet (1/4 x 1/4" for example), then you can leave the fence and blade set the same way for both cuts. Make the face cuts first, then stand the workpiece up with the cut edge AGAINST the fence, and make your edge cuts. If you set the saw so that the height of the blade equals the distance from the fence to the far edge of the blade, you'll get a nice clean even rabbet.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks for the brush tips... yes... I am talking about the drawer front piece... I was thinking using those plywood laminate and cut its edge to make it as one piece , no glue or somthing... but looks like you are recommending me use the same maple board and glue somthing on its 3 or 4 edge... I see.... except I am not 100% how exactly it looks, if I know how it looks ... I probably can figure out how it being cut with or without understanding your description... I think we need Jeekinz's drawing... .. thanks for taking the time answering my post...


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

I think I'd need a better description or drawing of your design to see what you have planned for the drawers. 

Drawer faces should be solid wood, or have solid wood edging glued to all four edges of a plywood drawer face. They can overlap with the full 3/4" thickness of your wood, or for a more delicate look, you can rabbet about 1/2 the thickness away, so that the drawer face overlaps partially, and only sticks out 3/8 of an inch from the face-frame of the cabinet. 

How are you building your drawer boxes?


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

there is instruction in one of the web site telling how to build drawer... http://pages.areaguides.com/ubuild/drawer.htm but it doesn't talk about how to build the front piece ... the box is pretty straight forward base on the instruction...


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

For the drawer, you will make a box first, then attach the front to the front piece of the box. If you use plywood on the front of the drawer, you can't rout a decorative edge and will need to just band the edge of the plywood. Like Nate said, use solid wood for the drawer fronts.

You may have to glue up two smaller pieces of stock to achieve the width you need.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

but I am talking about those plywood from planner they sell in HD somthing like 12" x 8' or shorter... they are like solid wood but strps stick together... can I use those ? actually solid wood is fine... they selling those as well in HD except more expensive.... if I have to I have to... but how do I trim the edge of the solid wood to make it looks nice... use table saw? or I have to use router?


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

You mean the wood that has those zig-zag scarf joints every 12 inches or so? You certainly could use that stuff, but the grain pattern is strange, the wood is very soft, and those scarf joints will look weird when you rout a profile on the edge.


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

Kuiporng, you should really pick up a couple woodworking books or subscribe to a magazine like WOOD or something along those lines if you're going to get involved with this kind of woodworking. Not only for your safety, so you do it right the first time (hopefully) and don't waste your money on mistakes.

If you use the finger jointed panels, your layout lines cannot intersect with a finger joint. Two pieces of solid stock will give you a much nicer finished product.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

I see... I will go with solid wood ... the hek... already spend close to $300 bucks... anyway... here is how I imagine I can do it... I angle the table saw... then between the saw blade and the work piece, I insert a small fix 1" or narrower wood, then cut together both this work piece and the 1" wood... it seems like the work piece edge will then be cut a little bit...

or this idea won't work....

Update on the progress:

so far the closet already housing double the capacity as before... I am just working on the center shelf... where the side shelfs which hanging cloths already kind of done and been used... our closet is a square kind of shape, so it is not a one directional structure... instead the closet has three sides... east,west side mainly for hanging cloths, north side is a shelf only....

thanks for the advice Jeekinz, will sure try some books from the library on next visit... I am already reading some router books... information just overwhelmed, just cannot wait and read... want to get my hand on things... really hook on the closet shelf stuff.. as we have 5 or six closets in the house.... both me and my wife see a lot of benefit in rearranging the closet... hasn't seriously watch any TV since this closet stuff start... still need to watch the babies though....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

I agree with jeekinz. A basic woodworking book from the book store would really help you out more than we can. 

I think in your last post your suggesting a way to profile the edge on the table saw? I'm not sure i understand it though. What's the extra piece doing? 

Also, if you angle the saw blade, always put the fence away from the side the fence is tilted to. Otherwise you're likely to shoot the workpiece out the front of the saw which is usually right at OCH. (Operator Crotch Height)

Without using any extra pieces, you can angle the saw blade to 45, and put a simple chamfer around the edges of your drawer front. Anything more elaborate would require a router.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

what I thinking is a spacer kind of thing... so that the working piece is not get cut from bottom to top, but may be from 3/4th the height to the top so the resultant shape is a U shape rather than a V shape.... thanks for the tips for table saw....


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

You should purchase these books so you always have them. I have a small cabinet in my shop dedicated to woodworking. I use them all the time. Books on sharpening, equipment, homebuilding, woodworking, plumbing.

Look through the books and magazines near the checkout at Lowes or Home Depot.


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

KUIPORNG said:


> what I thinking is a spacer kind of thing... so that the working piece is not get cut from bottom to top, but may be from 3/4th the height to the top so the resultant shape is a U shape rather than a V shape.... thanks for the tips for table saw....


If you angle the blade to 45, and then move the fence so it is 5 1/2" away from the base of the blade, and run a 6" wide board through, it will cut off just the bottom corner edge, only about "3/4th the height to the top".
Is that what you're trying to do? No need for a spacer. 

A curved U shape isn't really possible with a table saw. (You actually can use a table saw to cut coves of various profiles, but this is really an "advanced tablesaw" technique, and is probably not wise to try on a little contractor saw anyways.)


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## Jeekinz (Jan 29, 2007)

Personally, I would move the fence about 5/8" from the blade and run all 4 sides at once....like building a raised panel.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

you are right... thanks....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Jeekinz said:


> Personally, I would move the fence about 5/8" from the blade and run all 4 sides at once....like building a raised panel.


yeah. Good point. I got lost in trying to understand Kuiporng's plan with the spacer etc. 

The proper way to do that is just as Jeekinz says.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

People, I spent $80 bucks to buy a used Router

PORTER CABLE MODEL 690LRVS ROUTER 

I think it will do a good front drawer... yes... don't worry... I will do a lot of reading before turning on the switch for safty reason....


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

That's a good basic router. The main rule with routing is the "right hand rule". Make a an "L" shape with your right hand, palm down. Put your hand on top of the router. Your thumb points at the workpiece, your index finger points the way the router should be pushed along the workpiece. 

This also works upside down. If your router is in a router table, just turn your right hand palm-up. Put it on top of the workpiece to be routed. Now the index finger points which direction the workpiece moves along the cutter, and the thumb points at the edge to be cut.


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks... I am considering two router tables:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130156680694&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
or
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130156653229&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

any advice is appreciated


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## NateHanson (Apr 15, 2007)

Those look nice, but JEEZUS!! $30 and $60 for shipping? That's half the cost of the table!


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*MDF vs wood board*

MDF for sure is fast and easy and cheap....

Wood board requires painting or stain... and if stain is choosen... you are talking about a lot of work and $$

but one good thing about wood board is if you ever screw in a wrong screw in a location... no big deal... correct it and wood filler the previous hole... MDF is different story.... correction means structure weakening and damage and many times board become unusable... ....etc..

I really almost done... my closet is not that big... but I think we kind of make the best use of its space... I will post a picture sometime next week... unfortunately... I am unable to post the picture naked, as a lot of cloths already hanged everywhere which mean my art cannot be shown in 100%...well... at least you can see how many cloths this thing can now hold....

DIY also allow you to change your design in the implementation process which we did a few times already.... this is also why using wood board is good idea... use MDF changing design is more difficult....

closet project is a good stepping stone for more serious wood working down the road...


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

*pictures as promised*

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/kuiporng/closet/closet_1.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/kuiporng/closet/closet_3.jpg

the first picture is the master bed room one

the second picture is the first floor one

the second one take me 2 hour to finish as it use MDF which requires no finishing wood but the first one takes me 2 weeks to finish because it requires wood finish a lot of wait and a lot of work....

unfortunately, the closet is rather small to allow me to take picture easily....
so the view does not really show a lot.. I didn't take pictures to show all three side but two.... but believe me... it is much much better than before where the builder just put three sticks one on each side of the wall....

again closet is a very easy project for anyone ... DIY .... don't even try to buy any custom made cost a lot of money.... the first closet cost me approx 300 bucks(require wood finishing), the second one cost me 40 bucks(MDF)...


I am waiting for my router to arrive to go for more challenging wood working in the future...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Wow that really looks nice.
You should quit day job and do this.

How big is your closet, kuip?

I really would love to do that to my closets.
My husband and I have his and hers closets and that really would look nice.

Each closet is 8 feet wide and 3 1/2 feet deep.

OK, you have inspired me. I want to do a closet organizer too, after my basement.  

Did you need any special tools when you used the MDF?
But I would rather have it wood. It looks so nice with the stain.

What is your next project?


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## KUIPORNG (Jan 11, 2006)

Hi Yummy Mummy,

Thanks a lot for your support. My closet is much smaller than yours. I don't exactly remember but it is kind of a rectangle shape somthing like 6' x 4' may be and what you see is kind of the best we can do for that small area.

But you are right, closet project is definitely a worth to do project, consider so much money being spent on clothing, without a good organized closet, many cloths aren't going be wear the way they suppose to be.. much more money waste because of that.

Minimum tool requires for making a closet is: circular saw and a drill driver...
everything requires drill driver... so please go get a good quality one sooner rather than later so that you can use it for your basement now... the one I have is Muewalkee 18v and it is the best...

Time saving tool if you want: table saw

MDF is really easy to use and do as they don't require you to do anything on its surface... but the compromise is: not as beaty and you need to be worry about its strength sometimes in different situation... where if using wood board... it can be as strong as it can be with whatever design you want... see the middle shelf, I wouldn't too confident to build it with MDF as you can see there is no support from the left and right using hanging rods as the other design the other poster did... if you put an hanging rods from left and right... the closet is no longer as good as the closet rods being close over in the corners affecting cloth hanging....

so depends on your design... you may choose to use wood rather than MDF

but if you do choose to stain, don't make the mistake I did using oil base... use water base... the time requires to build would definitely cut in half if not more.... 

normally to fix a standard closet, you will convert the closet from one level to two levels, by moving the existing rod higher... depends on the shape of the closet, different design requires...we build different sections with different height to accomodate our need,one section we store really long cloths... some sections we store pants... one section requires a small ladder to reach which we stored offseason clothings...etc...
thanks again for your encouragement.

oh yes... my original plan is to build an kitdhen island... but my Boss kind of laugh at me... may be that is too agressive... so going to build a shelf on top of some studing tables... but are going to use router this time to make the edge beaty... if this becomes a successful project... kitchen island aren't going to get away...


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks for all the information K.

I would love to see the kitchen island.

I have a kitchen island and if you like I can send you a picture of it.

I find it really convenient to work on and mine has a lifted area where you can sit like at a bar.

Everyone sits there, the kids even do homework on it.
Also, you can gain a lot of space underneath as there is a lot of drawers, and cupboards.

I want to see the kitchen island soon. :yes:


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## send_it_all (Apr 30, 2007)

yummy mummy said:


> Did you need any special tools when you used the MDF?


Safety glasses and a good dust mask. MDF is extremely dust when cut or sanded and the dust contains chemicles such as formaldehyde (sp?)...and it's just irritating.


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## yummy mummy (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks for the advise send it all.

But I may be dead by the time I get to the closet project. :jester: 

It's taken me a year to just frame the basement.


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