# Replacing draft inducer cost of DIY vs pro



## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

service call, diagnostics, oiling, fasteners, etc aside...

An OEM part, sourced from a wholesale distributor who will actually warranty the part,
costs more than something that looks very similar to that sourced retail or on the net.
Add markup on the material to that wholesale cost.

Then you have the value for the time to get there and then to do the work involved...
this labor rate should/will include the overhead costs of operating the business as well.
Including his labor warranty.

Then of course there's profit. No one is in business to break even.
---

As for context... what do YOUR customers/clients say about how you get 
the money needed to pay your mortgage, buy groceries, and fund your IRA?

hth


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Lets look at it this way............if YOU owned the comany, would that price seem fair ? i am betting that if you had even a clue what it cost to be in the HVAC business these days, your answer would be yes, its a fair price.


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## diyorpay (Sep 21, 2010)

I got the lecture from the trade once.

Add the overhead for truck(s), the office, the office support, advertising, training, experience and knowledge to diagnose correctly the first time, insurance, proper safety, inventory, tools...

A lot of truth to it.

On the other hand, I've had shoddy work done that I could have done better myself. Even after I get it right (sometimes) on the second try, it's still cheaper if money is an issue. 

Peace of mind and a warranty come with a price. Just make sure you get a good contractor.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

harleyrider said:


> Lets look at it this way............if YOU owned the comany, would that price seem fair ? i am betting that if you had even a clue what it cost to be in the HVAC business these days, your answer would be yes, its a fair price.


I don't, that's why I'm asking. The blower housing does have the identical markings to the original and I'm guessing that what I bought is remanufactured or something like that by Rotom and Rotom installs their new motor... Unless someone will tell me that Rotom makes a product that is inferior, I would think that high cost of HVAC would drive the use of less expensive parts.

I thought I had made clear that I recognize the existence of overhead costs and the need to make some profit, these are costs I don't know and I wanted to know if the costs are reasonable or not.

If it helps the original ICP part number is 1014433.

I'm asking because I do usually see this kind of difference and I usually end up doing my own work because of it - knowing that I am capable of meeting my needs. In this case, the repair on this furnace does not need to last 5 years, and I wouldn't expect it to because of the environment. I want to be able to judge pricing because when I get a new furnace, I won't be doing the installation myself. So I must wonder, based on this experience, do I expect the particular business to be priced fairly nor not.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

my company would chg about $500 or more. for example. I pay $150 for an OEM part. mark it up 100% which everyone does ( we go as high as 2 or 2.6x for some parts). you now have $300. add 2 hrs labor at $100/hr and voila $500. 2 hrs labor = 1/2 hr travelling time, 1/2 hr pickup part and 1 hr to install. and that is MINIMUM chg. can be more if travelling time is longer. these are normal business costs. Honda dealer chg $140/hr where I am so get used to the real world prices. of course you can DIY and so do I. I can buy an electric water htr for $250 and hump it in myself or pay a Pro $600-1000. everyone needs to make a living and not a marginal one.:whistling2:

rotom parts work but cost 25% less and last 25% less, not a problem for a short term but you get what you pay for. nothing remanufactured about them and I use them.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

yuri said:


> my company would chg about $500 or more. for example. I pay $150 for an OEM part. mark it up 100% which everyone does ( we go as high as 2 or 2.6x for some parts). you now have $300. add 2 hrs labor at $100/hr and voila $500. 2 hrs labor = 1/2 hr travelling time, 1/2 hr pickup part and 1 hr to install. and that is MINIMUM chg. can be more if travelling time is longer. these are normal business costs. Honda dealer chg $140/hr where I am so get used to the real world prices. of course you can DIY and so do I. I can buy an electric water htr for $250 and hump it in myself or pay a Pro $600-1000. everyone needs to make a living and not a marginal one.:whistling2:
> 
> rotom parts work but cost 25% less and last 25% less, not a problem for a short term but you get what you pay for. nothing remanufactured about them and I use them.


Plus most of us give a 1 year warranty. So if it gos out in that year. You don't pay for another service call, or labor to change it out again.


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## Tator1076 (Dec 22, 2009)

You are saving money but you have to understand we have family's too. We have to charge more to pay for company's expanse and payroll. Just think about it if some one say they can do your job ten times cheaper and now you lost that job. That can p you off too.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

Doesn't seem so long ago I thought of Canadian dollars like monopoly money but apparently the exchange rate with the US is pretty close to dollar for dollar :laughing::jester:

I thank everyone for their input. I'm doing a load of work myself and I always have, but I have a plan and I know full well that as I progress through the plan I will gradually be depending more on contractors.

At this point, I am in the process of paying for my 3rd home on land contract. My first home was a 50 year old house that I couldn't sell even at $50,000 under the $185,000 I owed on it before the bank took possession under foreclosure because I had to move for a job when jobs stopped being available in Michigan. The second house was new because the wife didn't want to deal with repairs, but when we moved back to Michigan we had to sell on a short sale because of the other foreclosures driving down market prices. 

So we bought this house cheap without depending on bank financing, part out of necessity and part out of a desire to fast track our finances to a substantially lower debt to income ratio. In spite of that, I can't finance tires which I tried to last week when one of my tires went flat and was bald - I had no difficulty paying for 1, but I would've needed financing to pay for all 4 as I wanted to, so it'll wait a month or so.

That's also the difference between paying $100 for a part and paying $500 for a pro, and right now the extras I get for the pro would just go in a dumpster in a year or so when I need a pro to put in a new furnace. By then, I expect to be able to get financing through a credit union - I had consulted last fall hoping to finance my foundation, but I had recently started a new job and length of employment wasn't enough and from paying for roof materails on credit cards, I had a high credit utilization going against me.


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## hvactech126 (Nov 11, 2010)

Anyone can buy a part, just like anyone can purchase the products to build an airplane. However, can just anyone assemble the parts correctly to ensure the end user is safe? Why is it that so many people disregard the professional training that goes into becoming a top notch trades person. All they see is the price of the part. What about the cost of obtaining a trade certification, the continuing education, the liability insurance, fuel, vehicle maintenance, vehicle payments, insurances, office expenses, advertising, phone systems, banking fees, bad dept, capital depreciation, accounting and legal, workers comp, holiday pay, vacation pay, training pay, pension plans, benefits package, software and hardware costs, equipment costs, storage costs, cost of handling stock, warehousing costs, lights,utility costs, non billable time costs, office staff, answering services, bookkeeper costs, rent or lease costs, taxes, etc? Are we as trades people to absorb all these costs? Who is to absorb these costs? I guess we're supposed to sell the part at the same price as we purchase it for and then charge only for our time at the job, not for the non billable time, and some how try to cover all those other costs plus some how support our companies, our employees, and our families. Is it no wonder why there is a shortage of skilled trades people. When is someone going to start educating the public on the costs associated with running a business?


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

Okay, you'd have a point if we were talking about installing a new HVAC system including new ducts to go with the new floor layout I'm going to have, getting a proper cold air return system in, and putting thought into sizing new ducts instead of just cobbling something new together to go with the ducts that already exist.

I should point out that changing this blower involves all the technical expertise of turning 3 screws to bolt the blower unit to the furnace, 2 screws to bolt the vent duct to the blower, and pulling off and on 2 wires and a hose to a pressure sensor. I called this in knowing exactly what the problem was - it's a pretty obvious issue to identify, and I know perfectly well how unreliable a homeowner's certainty of a diagnosis can be.

I can't imagine the hell that whatever contractor did the job had to go throuIgh putting in the furnace I have, the crawlspace was absolutely un-navigateable when I bought the house. I have every intention of getting a contractor in ahead of time to plan out the system, and bring them in when it's time to install with a house that's designed with accomodating the ducts in mind and a crawlspace that can actually be crawled and has the lighting needed to do the job safely and as easily as possible.


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## how (Feb 26, 2011)

Yes a nerve has been touched here.
One of the major differences between many of the people coming here for help and the forum people offering that help is ..we are all gainfully employed in a well paying trade where as others coming here may be trying to decide which comes first, food or heat, for themselves and their families.. 
Civilization depends only on the rule of contract and ones ability to empathize with those in different circumstances from our own. I think that those of us who have been financially secure for some times might easily forget what it was really like for us when we were not.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

Posts like these are annoying to me, no disrespect to the OP ..they just bother the dickens out of me.


If i wanted to work for an hourly rate I would find a job.

But the Pros here are in business to make a PROFIT, not a an hourly wage.

We take all the risk of opening a business, we have to invest in ongoing training to keep up with technology. We warranty the part that we have to stock or run to get...ect

Yeh..five hundred bucks is cheap for an inducer.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

WillK said:


> I am very big on doing things myself where I can, and I am doing so in the case of my draft inducer.. I tend to judge quotes in the context of what it would cost to do myself. All due respect to pro's because I don't begrudge the increased prices where something is beyond my ability, but I want to understand if this pricing is reasonable in the context of whether I would consider the particular pro for future work where I will need it.
> 
> I was charged $85 for the service call, which I don't have a problem, which was a month or so back. I called around 10 PM and was told it wouldn't be until around 6 AM the next day since he had other jobs first, and his actual arrival time was 9 AM. By that time, I had cleaned out the dirt that was stalling my inducer using WD-40, so all he had to do was tighten screws on the vent pipe. He indicated if I needed him back out again within 90 days he would waive the service call charge. I don't have an issue with any of this.
> 
> ...


I just paid $187 for a draft inducer for my furnace. I installed it myself. List price - which I assume an HVAC Professional would have charged - is about $335. Throw in the $85 service call charge, and some labor, and I'm sure we would easily have been talking $500.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Lets not debate.

This site is here to aid DIY.

Enough said.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

hvac5646 said:


> Posts like these are annoying to me, no disrespect to the OP ..they just bother the dickens out of me.
> 
> 
> If i wanted to work for an hourly rate I would find a job.
> ...


 
An engineering manager I previously worked for whom I have tremendous amounts of respect once said there is a quote from the Godfather for everything, and in this case it would be "It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business."

When you look at this from a customer perspective, I see it as a part I can get myself for $100, and what do I get for the remaining $400? I've already paid an additional $85 for the service call, which I assume is the line item intended to pay for the professional's time driving to my house.

While I recognize the list of expenses the professional has, the warranty is the only one that adds value for me. And if I have to replace this inducer twice within a year I still would have spent less.

If I wasn't capable of replacing an inducer myself or if I needed to not have the inconvenience of waiting for my part to ship, then I wouldn't have the option of choosing the $100 part, and the $500 pro installation is my cheapest option.

I didn't come here asking a question because I'm under the presumption that $500 for an inducer is a rip-off. I came here knowing there will be work to be done on my house where I won't consider doing it myself, so using this as an example I want to get a better understanding of how the value a pro brings to a job gets priced out.

HVAC5646, I'd point out that we both live in the metro Detroit area, and there's a chance that I might be calling your business when I quote the installation of a new HVAC system on my house. When I do so, I will be getting more than one quote and if you provide a quote you might not be my first choice. Even if you were my first choice, there is a chance I might not get financing and I would need to postpone the start of the job.

These are business realities, not personal attacks. And as sympathetic as I am to the need of pros to pay their business expenses and support their families, I'm being asked to pay out more than I pay in a month for several of my top expenses like house payments or car payments, I'm being asked to pay for less than an hour's work with half a week of my own work as an engineer. And when I call for a technician and hear that I'm the 7th job they're doing in a shift, it sounds like there isn't a shortage of work without my repair.

On the list of things to do on my house, HVAC is one I don't plan on doing myself. If money wasn't an object that would have also gone for all the plumbing, electrical and roofing work I've already done along with the post and beam project I'm doing in my crawlspace... For that matter, if money wasn't an object I'd probably have a GC demo the whole house and build a new one, and it'd probably be done by now.

I hope that the pros here can recognize that I appreciate their expertise, and when I hire a pro, the question I am posing here is a matter of becoming better informed so I can budget ahead of time and plan for a successfully financed project that will support a well-built HVAC system. And when I hire an HVAC pro, I intend to do so as part of a whole house project which I intend to accommodate all of the sub-projects as if they were planned for instead of being added as an afterthought where system quality is compromised because the ideal path for a duct is blocked by structure or other similar obstacles to the construction of an ideal system.

And I also want to add that I've read the kind of general advice that it's best to get at least 3 bids and usually throwing out the lowest and highest bids is warranted, along with other such advice... I don't take an approach that is as simple because I want to understand why bids are high or low, because I recognize that a low bid shouldn't be rejected because it's low but rather because it likely reflects an incomplete comprehension of the project, so I am not looking at the price but whether a pro fully understands what they are pricing - and that can go for the high bid as well.

So thanks to everyone for their input - even those who may have felt the need to list the overhead expenses I may have already been aware of, but which I know maybe need to be laid out for others who might contemplate the information discussed here.


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## hvac5646 (May 1, 2011)

I think Been is right. This is a subject that cannot or should not be broached in this setting.
I only read a small pert of your post for this reason.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Unless I'm missing something and I can gaurantee I am not, this is a DIY forum where collectively us hvac techs have helped thousands upon thousands of individuals self diagnose, find parts and then assist with the installation of their hvac equipment. 

If that is the case and it is, then no one has the right to complain. At least the OP was earnest enough to talk about it. The others we have helped the situation is and was and continually will be EXACTLY the same. 

I can also gauarantee that life itself is a business, not just hvac, and we're all in it to save money.


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Doc Holliday said:


> Unless I'm missing something and I can gaurantee I am not, this is a DIY forum where collectively us hvac techs have helped thousands upon thousands of individuals self diagnose, find parts and then assist with the installation of their hvac equipment.
> 
> If that is the case and it is, then no one has the right to complain. At least the OP was earnest enough to talk about it. The others we have helped the situation is and was and continually will be EXACTLY the same.
> 
> I can also gauarantee that life itself is a business, not just hvac, and we're all in it to save money.


 Doc, Ive been at it a long long time.....and i have learned many lessons, the one I am reminded of almost daily is this........You will never make them all happy, so i just strive for 99%......:thumbup:


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

ever looked at what a dealer charges to replace all 4 brakes? probably $400+, something i can do in about an hour and a half and $50 in parts.

knowledge is power and an eye opener. it's all about perspective, but 500 - 1000% mark-ups are not unreasonable in many professions over cost to DIY (since your labor is "free").


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

If it wasn't for the internet less than 10% of the population would ever know what the cost of hvac parts is, could not access them online and the local hvac houses don't sell to the public where I am. then we would not have all this fun. I don't begrudge DIYers as I am one myself unless they have a snarky attitude.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

yuri said:


> If it wasn't for the internet less than 10% of the population would ever know what the cost of hvac parts is, could not access them online and the local hvac houses don't sell to the public where I am. then we would not have all this fun. I don't begrudge DIYers as I am one myself unless they have a snarky attitude.


Free market is a fantastic thing if/when it works right.

I do everything that I can do by myself. I like doing it, plus it has saved me tens of thousands of dollars over the last 30 years. 

But sometimes it's work I cannot do. I had to have the transmission in my old Volvo rebuilt some time ago. Dang, it hurt to pay $2300 for that! But I couldn't do the work, they could, and they did the job right. I got what I paid for.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Exactly. I will do tune-ups, brakes, alternators, starters and all the minute simple stuff I can on my own vehicles but it is out of my league to rebuild a motor or transmission. That's when I hire an auto mechanic. 

Not too long ago I took my truck to an auto shop to have it fitted with new shocks all the way around. After the fact my nephew's truck needed shocks all the way around and I called the same mechanic. This time, however, I asked him if my nephew bought the shocks from the auto parts store and brought them in if he'd put them in, just charge labor. 

No problems and he did the job but that's when I found out how much he marked up the price on the job he did for me, double the cost of the exact same shock, same trucks. Plus labor. 

I felt like an idiot, my ignorance, but he had every right to do that and I understand.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't mind paying for work as long as it is done right/correctly. When my house needs shingles I am not going to bust my azz and do the work myself and have to feed and supply beer to my relatives as helpers. I would rather work a couple days on the weekend at what I do and get paid overtime rate and then pay the roofers instead. Of course I know the price of shingles and am not going to be arrogant and say to them what I "think" they should chg or I will get a lousy job done. Everyone needs to make a decent living and it is arrogant for people to think they should decide what a fair profit for us is. Hence the fact the internet is causing these problems. Cest la Vie.

Actually it is not a problem for me, I let the service manager deal with all that cra*pp.:laughing::yes:


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## Marty S. (Oct 31, 2009)

Yep that's the way it is. DIY saves a ton of cash as does a garden and a few fruit trees. Throw in some doe tags and a family can easily save 5K a year just in food. In the past few years I built a garage and saved nearly $6K on that project,new windows-saved 3K,bathroom remodel-saved 6K,new flooring-saved 2K. Won't count the new furnace and heat pump because I do that for a living and had all the specialty tools. Now if there was a DIY doctoring/surgery forum I could save a whole lot practicing on the Mrs,last 3 years in a row she spent $5,000 by the second week in Jan.


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

DIY supports my beer problem


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Plus if I get the relatives loaded with beer the shingles end up all crooked or upside down.:drink:


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Marty S. said:


> Yep that's the way it is. DIY saves a ton of cash as does a garden and a few fruit trees. Throw in some doe tags and a family can easily save 5K a year just in food. In the past few years I built a garage and saved nearly $6K on that project,new windows-saved 3K,bathroom remodel-saved 6K,new flooring-saved 2K. Won't count the new furnace and heat pump because I do that for a living and had all the specialty tools. Now if there was a DIY doctoring/surgery forum I could save a whole lot practicing on the Mrs,last 3 years in a row she spent $5,000 by the second week in Jan.



trade er in on a new model.:yes::whistling2:


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Marty S. said:


> Yep that's the way it is. DIY saves a ton of cash as does a garden and a few fruit trees. Throw in some doe tags and a family can easily save 5K a year just in food. In the past few years I built a garage and saved nearly $6K on that project,new windows-saved 3K,bathroom remodel-saved 6K,new flooring-saved 2K. Won't count the new furnace and heat pump because I do that for a living and had all the specialty tools. Now if there was a DIY doctoring/surgery forum I could save a whole lot practicing on the Mrs,last 3 years in a row she spent $5,000 by the second week in Jan.


 
Us hvac guys can pretty much do anything. God knows the amount of tools we all have. That and a God given natural born talent we possess to use them. :thumbsup:


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Seroiusly, there is not one trade that we do not encompass being in the hvac industry. Carpentry, framing, electrical, plumbing, you name it and we know it. Or we'll find out. 

I have gc's for friends, electricians, and plumbers, all of which I literally have experience with in each specific trade. I wouldn't hire an electrician for a panel upgrade at my own place. I have four years as an electrician under my belt, from the ground up commerical and residential new construction and retrofit. I probably have 100 panel upgrades under my belt, up to and including complete re-wiring of buildings and homes. 

Water heaters? Dozens.

I've even done roofing before but hate it. Metal, commercial roofing. 

Life is good.


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## WillK (Aug 29, 2010)

I hope I've been clear that I don't by any means pretend to be as good at any trade as the pro's, or that I'm doing my own work for any reason other than financial necessity. I'd much rather be working on my cars - where, by the way, I do brakes and engine rebuilds, upholstery, painting, welding and (if I still had access to the equipment) machining, sand casting and plating. I'd also hope that nobody else is intending to tout their own superiority.

These days are different times. 5 years ago, I would more likely take the $500 quote iin my present situatiton and ask to get a quote on the new furnace instead thinking if I'm going to spend $500 only to spend more later, I'd probably be better to just skip the $500 repair and do the replacement now. I'd have been able to finance it with a home equity loan - not just because I wouldn't have gone through the financial difficulty I've gone through, but because I'd actually still have the equity and the banks would actually be giving home equity loans.

These days, I can't pay for the new furnace sooner than I plan on it, and without the savings of doing the repair myself, I'd only have to postpone the furnace later - ultimately because I'm adverse to not having a working furnace during heating season, I'd probably postpone a whole year.

I get that y'all have probably seen a decrease in business because customers like me aren't getting home equity loans to pay for projects done by pro's and/or you aren't getting new construction paid for by people who now have a harder time getting new construction loans.. And I get that with less business there's a sense of need to protect what job territory you can.


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