# what to use for gas underground



## radiohummer1 (Sep 4, 2010)

I want to use the cheapest material but safe to run natural gas from house to garage. Plastic hose, copper or black pipe


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## Just Bill (Dec 21, 2008)

Pipe will eventually rust, so plastic is the better choise, but not just any plastic. It has to be the one type used for gas lines.

Gas companies get fussy about people messing with their lines, so check local rules before you run this. While many localities allow homeowners to do their own plumbing and electrical work, gas usually requires licensed people.


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## mark942 (Feb 2, 2008)

Cast pipe is what I have used in years past. To be SAFE, Call your gas/Propane supplier and ask them.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

1st off, you cant use regular csst underground but more importantly. If you don't know what pipe you can use than you don't know enough about gas and gas piping to be doing the project. It'd be like a surgeon asking which clamp to use to hold your intestines out of the way. Be safe, hire a professional. You will sleep better.


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## mark942 (Feb 2, 2008)

NH, If you were to read my comment I said in years past. With that being said, I did refer OP to call their supplier.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

What you said was CSST; which has never been approved for burial (unless properly sleeved or you use csst with a rated burial protection) ) and now you edited it to say cast which I assume you mean steel pipe which is also not approved. The mere fact that you don't know the correct terminology is telling in itself. You are attempting to give advice to someone when you yourself are not competent to do so. 

Here's my thing and I hope Dave or some other moderator will take this to heart. Gas is dangerous stuff. Most if not all states require a license to install and service it. Advice from anybody on a diy forum, either a professional or another diy'er is a bad idea because you are assuming a level of competence by the end user that is not there. I personally would like to see all gas related threads removed instantly and not allowed here or any other diy forum.


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## Mr Fixit (Sep 3, 2010)

*Gas Line Install*

Black pipe is made for gas lines, will not rust and lasts for years. Don’t go the cheap route, buy good pipe. Natural gas is corrosive and black pipe does not corrode. You can also use a copper line. Depending on the use, I would use black pipe for underground or basement connections. Copper I would use if I were running a line to a gas log fireplace. 

Running a line I would put two shutoffs, in the event of an emergency or replacement of equipment. For instance I ran a black pipe line in the basement through the wall, under the deck to our door grill on the deck.

Running off the existing gas piping, I shut the gas off at the source, ran the line and just at the basement wall prior to going through the other side, I placed a shut off. I continued the line to the grill, and put an outside shutoff just before the grill connection. 

If I need a grill replacement, I can just shut it off at the outside connection. If there is a leak I can shut the gas off at the inside connection without shutting the entire supply coming into the home, or shut it off before going on vacation so no one can grill while you are not there.

When installing gas lines, I wouldn't go cheap. I like doing a project one time and not have to worry about problems down the road. 

If you are a DIY without much experience, I would recommend having it inspected once it is completed. If you ever sell you home, most areas now require a CO to sell, and will ask you to fix or correct problems before you can sign the paper.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr Fixit said:


> Black pipe is made for gas lines, will not rust and lasts for years. Don’t go the cheap route, buy good pipe. Natural gas is corrosive and black pipe does not corrode. You can also use a copper line. Depending on the use, I would use black pipe for underground or basement connections. Copper I would use if I were running a line to a gas log fireplace.
> 
> *You need to delete this entire paragraph because 99% of it is wrong, dangerous and does not meet code. do you have a gas license?*
> 
> ...


*If I were a diy without much experience I would call a professional to do the job before you blow the damn house off the foundation. Having it inspected is a good idea though because if you use the materials recommended above it will fail.*


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## majakdragon (Sep 16, 2006)

Depending on your local Codes, there may be a few materials you can use. Black iron/steel pipe can be used, in most areas, for above ground piping. You cannot have threaded joints underground, they must be welded. Most areas do not allow copper inside the home for gas. Check your local Plumbing Code office. Also contact your Home Insurer. Unauthorized work can cancel your policy.


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## mark942 (Feb 2, 2008)

NHMaster said:


> What you said was CSST;



NH, I said cast. I didnt say any thing but cast. My edit was on the fact I didnt read underground and made comment about copper, and copper is not used for under ground. Maybe you misread my post as I surely did pertaining to the original post. Gas is as you said, very dangerous, and should be treated with the utmost respect. :thumbsup:


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## radiohummer1 (Sep 4, 2010)

*under ground gas line*

thanks for all your input


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## braindead (May 31, 2010)

Interesting thread. Just about every pipe that has been mentioned can be used somewhere under ground, except cast and csst I have a problem with.

The only way to resolve the question is to call the local jurisdition and see what they say, thats the final work. :whistling2:


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## Mr Fixit (Sep 3, 2010)

NHMaster said:


> *If I were a diy without much experience I would call a professional to do the job before you blow the damn house off the foundation. Having it inspected is a good idea though because if you use the materials recommended above it will fail.*


Black steel was the norm for gas piping for about 100 years. For the last fifty or so (prior to the use of plastic) the underground piping was bitumen coated and wrapped with a bitumen coated paper tape and another coat of bitumen. This was replaced by heavy vinyl tape about thirty years ago, which I used 22 years ago when I did mine.
New Jersey Natural Gas (NJNG) at that time recommended black pipe that was properly tar coated and wrapped, and specifically recommended against galvanized. 
Depending where you are located the codes are different as to what type of piping is used.
Some area recommend plastic, others don't.
For natural gas, the pipe of choice and code, in most cases is schedule 40 black steel pipe, that has been used for about 100 years.
The underground black pipe of today has a factory-applied plastic coating to stop corrosion.
Don't fall out of the saddle on that high horse of yours.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

Yea, OK Chief, now go back and read the thread. Then get yourself a copy of the National Fuel Gas Code along with a copy of NFPA 54 and do some reading. then when you have educated yourself further, you can get back to us with your new found knowledge. Untill then, I'll stay right where I am.

On another tack though. All you handyman / expert gas technicians that feel the need to hasten a man and his families demise by giving advice that is in most cases wrong and dangerous, thanks for your input.

Gas is dangerous stuff. Have any doubts just google or youtube "gas explosions" and have yourself a good look at what happens when folks with a little bit of knowledge " *I tighten the crap out of the pipes* " decide to do a little gas piping or gas service work.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

NHMaster said:


> Yea, OK Chief, now go back and read the thread. Then get yourself a copy of the National Fuel Gas Code along with a copy of NFPA 54 and do some reading. then when you have educated yourself further, you can get back to us with your new found knowledge. Untill then, I'll stay right where I am.
> 
> On another tack though. All you handyman / expert gas technicians that feel the need to hasten a man and his families demise by giving advice that is in most cases wrong and dangerous, thanks for your input.
> 
> Gas is dangerous stuff. Have any doubts just google or youtube "gas explosions" and have yourself a good look at what happens when folks with a little bit of knowledge " *I tighten the crap out of the pipes* " decide to do a little gas piping or gas service work.


 
That license you have is for plumbing and gas work not yelling at people. Take a chill pill and stop yelling at people because in the end they will do as they wish. I understand your frustration.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

Yelling? what yelling? that bit in bold is a quote from the OP. Sorry but I don't take chill pills when it comes to somebody is hell bent on putting his family and the neighborhood in jeopardy. Are you sure it's not your neighbor?


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

majakdragon said:


> Depending on your local Codes, there may be a few materials you can use. Black iron/steel pipe can be used, in most areas, for above ground piping. You cannot have threaded joints underground, they must be welded. Most areas do not allow copper inside the home for gas. Check your local Plumbing Code office. Also contact your Home Insurer. Unauthorized work can cancel your policy.


 
We can use copper under ground here if it's put in a plastic sleeve. we can also use coated black pipe with threaded joints under ground. we can also use plastic under ground. It's what the code official in your area will allow


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## majakdragon (Sep 16, 2006)

I agree that Local Codes take precedence. This is why DIY sites have so much arguing. I have worked in 3 States and all had pretty much the same rules for gas piping, except Florida, which allowed galvanized pipe.


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## the_man (Aug 14, 2010)

it amazes me what homeowners will do with their homes these days. Just the fact that this dude came to an international forum and asked what to do, rather than make a phone call to the local AHJ says he should not be touching gas pipe. "Cheapest stuff to use underground"??? Is a few hundred bucks worth the risk to your family? I really don't think we should even answer any of these questions.:no:


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## kenmac (Feb 26, 2009)

the_man said:


> it amazes me what homeowners will do with their homes these days. Just the fact that this dude came to an international forum and asked what to do, rather than make a phone call to the local AHJ says he should not be touching gas pipe. "Cheapest stuff to use underground"??? Is a few hundred bucks worth the risk to your family? I really don't think we should even answer any of these questions.:no:


 

Not long ago,I had to re pipe a house that had caught on fire. The reason for the fire. Some hack (friend of a friend of a friend) had piped the house gas line with PVC


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## the_man (Aug 14, 2010)

kenmac said:


> Not long ago,I had to re pipe a house that had caught on fire. The reason for the fire. Some hack (friend of a friend of a friend) had piped the house gas line with PVC


yep I've seen stuff like that a couple times. Looked at a water heater couple months ago, someone (handyman i think) plumbed the gas line from gas valve to ball valve with pex, probably cause the new didn't line up and they didn't have a flex line. shut it off first, then told her if she didn't let me fix it i'd call the gas company to turn the meter off


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## Jay-1 (Oct 2, 2010)

*Underground Natural Gas Line*

I have been looking into this myself a bit. It would probably be best to contact some pros and see who is willing to work with you on the underground stuff. Since you are wanting to save, some pros will let you dig the trench to their specs and fill it back in to save some on this. Also, they will go over some things like how much weight may be on the line and ground conditions that pipe will be exposed to. Is it in an area that may get driven over and how it is to be marked. Inside the garage, black pipe and some flexible stainless at the end with a minimum 3" sediment stub you can do. Double check your codes and make sure you pull a permit unless your not worried about your insurance company making good on a fire claim. A diagram to the inspector helps alot before you get started. Make sure you get the right pipe joint sealant for gas. Be sure to get lots of pictures when it's installed. These will be helpful to you or future owners that may have to find the pipe again. Also, I'm pretty sure copper and galvanized pipe are not used with natural gas. Always check all your connections with soapy water and a paintbrush. If the pro you get is pretty cool they may help with some questions and layout for the inside stuff. Remember to take care of them (six pack, gift cards, etc.) though if you find yourself calling them or they start becoming a part of your project. Be Safe, Codes exist to keep people alive.


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## CamarosRus (Feb 23, 2013)

My stick framed shop was built in 2003 and is maybe 50' from my house built in 1985. Shop is approx 30' x 48' with one 22 x 12 foot door on one end. Attic Trusses were used
so their is approx a 14' x 40' "room" with in the trusses and 7/12 roof pitch (watch your head).

There is a small furnace installed at end of "attic" room with the intent of heating the below shop via ductwork and ceiling registers to blow the warm air down.
After my previous owner concluded this wasnt going to heat 13' ceiling shop, he bailed out on furnace and installed REZNOR unit heater hung close to sheetrock
ceiling and supported by All-Thread and uni-strut layed across the trusses.

I forgot to mention that CSST was run from crawl space of main home underground thru PVC and enters shop through concrete footing into stud wall area.
I have removed sheet rock so as too see this. There is no shut off valve for the CSST in the shop after it enters the shop.
CSST goes up vertical stud wall into attic truss area (outside of aforementioned room) and runs toward that rear funrance room.

When the REZNOR was added the CSST was evidently cut and a Brass T was added for the REZNOR. ( This CSST and T is outa site in outer wind area of truss(es)
Off the bottom of Tee "they" used black iron pipe and came straight down through sheet rock ceiling and supplied REZNOR gas heater.

I now want to add a gas water heater to sit on the shop slab some 13' below.* My question is how/where/what should I use to run*
*gas to a newly added water heater ?*
I understand how I could easily drop black iron vertically down between the studs from another T up in the attic area, but then how how 
would I run the gas horizontally maybe 10-12' inside the wall to where it would exit the wall and supply water heater...........
OR do I use uni-strut and hang exposed pipe outside of sheetrock ????

Thanks for reading this book. Didnt know how to explain otherwise.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

My brother has been working for PSE&G in NJ for about 30 years and the last time I spoke with him they were pulling copper lines in to homes. I have always used schedule 40 black pipe and have never had a problem, and galvanized pipe can be used in most places now because the additive the gas company uses to give the gas that gas smell is no longer harmful to galvanized pipe. (For about the last 40 years, of course some people still call CD Exposure 1 Plywood, CDX, when APA hasent used interior glue for about 50 years) I always use Teflon pipe dope, test every connection, and properly support my pipes. 

The key is respect, knowledge, and the proper tools. Some people can cross thread a lightbulb, and they should never go anywhere near gas.

I don't buy the fear routine, Ive seen too many hack jobs by so called pros.


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

NHMaster said:


> 1st off, you cant use regular csst underground but more importantly. If you don't know what pipe you can use than you don't know enough about gas and gas piping to be doing the project. It'd be like a surgeon asking which clamp to use to hold your intestines out of the way. Be safe, hire a professional. You will sleep better.


 
Cancelled text coment not needed.


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## CamarosRus (Feb 23, 2013)

In conclusion...................

I spoke to the inept general contractor who built my detached shop almost ten years ago. He evidently *thought *(but didnt know the difference) that the heating
contractor who ran the line was using Underground Gas Polyethylene (*PE*) Piping (as should have been done)

I can only assume that all of this gas line/heating/bathroom plumbing 
work was done after the bldg construction was inspected by the county.

I contacted the Heating contractor and found out they had gone out of business and now operate under a different name. Manager I spoke with said she would try to find old file, but whats the point.

The nine year old CSST 1/2" run is going under a concrete walkway that at least 6+ feet wide. I'm not in a position now to tear out this walkway or "mole" under it to install 
a new line from meter to shop.

I'll just live with the 1/2" CSST feeding my 100K btu REZNOR and plan to install a 30 gal 240 volt TANK water heater

Thanks to all that replied to my recent posting on this thread...............


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

I don't mean to throw a sabot into the machinery, but why are there so many varying opinions on what seems to be a fairly straightforward question? I remember working on old homes in NJ that still had black piping run through the walls for gas lighting. Black pipe has been used for gas forever, and I really have not heard of many accidents with gas considering the number of homes that have it, so where is the incentive to change what has worked for so many years? The only possible answer is cost of installation. I know one thing, I definately dont want gas running through plastic in my house, and I don't like the idea of soft copper either.

As far as any government regulating what I can do in my own home, I don't want to hear it. Survival of the fittest is mental as well as physical, and the sooner you Regulation freaks figure that out, the better off we will be, unless of course you are looking forward to the Fourth Reich.

What I don't like about this gas issue is that the people that are supposed to know what is correct don't even seem to be able to come to an agreement. It was proven about 50 years ago that the zinc coating inside galvanized pipe does not slough off like most of you seem to say it does, yet the legend persists. How about those of you who have actual facts enlighten us Poi-loos? And please come with the data, not "Because I said so" or "Because Joe Blow told me" as justification. By justification I mean tests done by a certified laboratory that has documented cases of zinc coating failure due to the presence of natural gas.

I bet there are a lot of you anti-galvanized pipe guys that think eating carrots enhances night vision, right?


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## CamarosRus (Feb 23, 2013)

*I'm still very new to this site........*

*On 2/27/13 I posted my issue using an old thread because I had an underground piping concern*

*I find it "interesting" that other members find it compelling to post up there *
*comments and rants that have absolutely no constructive advice.*

*I've come to my own conclusion...........to leave my (improper) directly buried CSST in place and hope for best, that it doesnt fail*
*and to install, probably a 30 gal TANK style elec water heater..*

*Thanks and regards to whomever tried to give me real advice.*


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Mr Fixit said:


> Black steel was the norm for gas piping for about 100 years. For the last fifty or so (prior to the use of plastic) the underground piping was bitumen coated and wrapped with a bitumen coated paper tape and another coat of bitumen. This was replaced by heavy vinyl tape about thirty years ago, which I used 22 years ago when I did mine.
> New Jersey Natural Gas (NJNG) at that time recommended black pipe that was properly tar coated and wrapped, and specifically recommended against galvanized.
> Depending where you are located the codes are different as to what type of piping is used.
> Some area recommend plastic, others don't.
> ...


Blowing the house up is always a cheaper option....


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## joes plumbing (Jan 27, 2013)

NH master it is very frustrating listening to people who have no business giving advice. You are spot on my friend. I am a MA plumber and it pains me to see some of the answer people give. Again seriously thank you for trying to educate people who don't want to be educated. I'm being 100% sincere


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

Bad day today. I was called in to investigate why a family did not wake up this morning. Seems someone piped the old tin flu hot water tank with PVC pipe out the side of the house. It melted.


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