# Crown Moulding and nailing



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Before putting up the crown moulding you should mark out the location of each wall stud and each ceiling joist. On walls that run parallel to the ceiling joists I'll usually cut some nailer blocks at the crown's spring angle and mount them to facilitate nailing the crown.

You should always nail the bottom of the crown horizontally into each stud, and the top of the crown should always be nailed to each ceiling joist or nailing block. 

Shooting perpindicular to the spring angle of the crown isn't going to work with any nailer.

In my opinion, a 1-5/8" brad is a bit short. You really should rent, buy, or borrow a gun capable of shooting 2" nails.


----------



## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

As the Termite suggested, crowns should not be installed with brads. only on furniture. there is no strength or holding power from the brads.


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info. Good point on the nailing blocks. To me it would be the same as the 1"X1/2" strip of wood. Albeit, the nailing blocks are just much less of that and only there where the studs are at. If I'm understanding what you are saying on the nailing blocks and stud. Please correct my if I'm misunderstanding.

The nail gun with the 1-5/8" is 3/8" short of 2 inches. Would that make much of a difference if I'm using nailing blocks? Hmmm...I guess it would really depend on the height of the nailing blocks would it not? Meaning if the spring angle is 2", and the nailing block was like an 1-1/2". Using the nail gun for the nailing blocks would only leave 1/8 and will not penetrate the drywall to go into the stud. But If I use a 2" nail and hammer (rather than the nail gun for that) then I could. Noting that 2" nail through all that is a little border line. Maybe a 2-1/2" nail. Those would just be for the nailing blocks. Would I not have ample room or more than ample to use the nail run at 1-5/8" nails for the crown moulding spring angle at the marked location of where the nail block is? 

If I nail the bottom of the crown moulding using the nailer into the wall (to penetrate into the stud). Wouldn't 1-5/8" be too long for that given that the base (wall side) of the crown moulding is about 1/4" or 3/8". There is probably 1/2" drywall on the wall. So wouldn't the 1-5/8" be a bit excessive? (Just asking on that, maybe I'm wrong but not entirely sure.)


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

your not listening .you are trying to make a brad do the work of a trim nail.it has more to do about the gauge of the fastener not the length


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

Ok, my bad...then I am not understanding completely. What is the difference between a brad nail and finishing nail? When it said Brad Finishing nail, I thought what was being referred to was the same. The Brad nails I have are 1-5/8" 18ga. 

Any info on that?


----------



## jaros bros. (Jan 16, 2009)

A brad nailer comes in 18 guage while a finish nailer runs 15 or 16 guage. The head of the nails on a 15 or 16 guage finish nail will hold a lot better than a brad will. A lot of times brad nails don't have a glue coating while finish nails almost always have a glue coating to keep the nails from pulling out.

Josh Jaros (Jaros Bros. Construction)


----------



## ponch37300 (Nov 27, 2007)

Brads are 18 gauge, finish are 16 gauge or 15 gauge angle. You should use the 16 gauge finish nails at least 1 5/8" long, 3/8" crown molding, 1/2" drywall with another 1/8" finish on it in the corner is over an inch which leaves you 5/8" into the stud with perfect conditions. 

I was taught to cut a 2x4 at a 45* angle and nail/screw this to the studs which will give you a good nailer to attach your crown to. Depending on the size of your crown would depend on how wide you cut the 2x4".


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

So, it's the gauge, like strublesiding indicated and not the length. Even though the length MUST be long enough to penetrate what it's going through would it not? If so, I would say the length is then just as important as the gauge. Just curious, I know the price of nailers isn't necessarily cheap to rent or buy and if existing equipment can still be leveraged would it not be justified? Meaning wouldn't a few more brad nails even though the gauge it smaller and the length is enough to penetrate...wouldn't a few more brad nails do the same trick? Especially given the fact that the holes can be puddied? 

I know if it I was a professional in the industry then I would definitely have more than one. But I'm not and I know that.


----------



## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you can buy 6dfinish nails and use your trusty hammer then sink them just below the surface with a nail set then putty them.You can use your brad gun on the outside corners if you must :thumbsup:


----------



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

Length is critical as well as gauge. Using the brad nailer in the manner you describe is a bad idea. Sorry we're not telling you what you want to hear, but the brad nailer is better suited to installing base shoe to baseboard and small mouldings to other pieces of wood. I can't think of any application where it is appropriate for a brad to penetrate sheetrock into framing members. 3/8" penetration into the framing is inadequate for support of trim.

Nailing blocks or strips are normally only used when there's no framing to attach to. If you insist on using the brad nailer, rip angled strips of 2x so you have DIRECT attachment of the crown to the strips of 2x. Personally I think that is a waste of time and you're better off installing the crown conventionally and properly. Only use nailing blocks (or strips) when you can't hit a ceiling joist. Remember, people used hand-drive finish nails to install crown until the invention of the trim nailer and it is a good way to do it.


----------



## TBFghost (Jan 21, 2009)

Or you could rent a Paslode 16 awg cordless finish gun from homedepot....or...go check you local homedepot for sales... The Paslode pneumatic angled finish nailer was onsale at mine for $111 a few weeks ago...that is a pretty good deal.


----------



## brcleeroy (Jan 26, 2009)

What material crown are you working with? I'm assuming you're using a wood crown. However, correct me if I'm wrong guys, I understand that it is not necessary to nail directly in to studs if you are using plaster or polyurethane.


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

It is wood. I have everything cut and all. The problem right now is that I'm trying to get the stain to be the as close as possible to the other trim. My wife did one little test area and it matches perfectly but we can't reproduce the same now. She even wrote down what she did. Either she got it wrong it it just didn't work twice for whatever reason because the same isn't working now. 

Pain but I'm sure we'll get there.


----------



## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Ponch gave you a good tip. Not only is cutting up little nailer blocks a pain, but getting them into place is sometimes aggravating. A long, beveled 2 x 4 is the way to go. This serves exactly the same purpose as the hundreds of little blocks, is faster to make, and can be nailed into place easier. It also gives you the very well appreciated ability to nail and/or splice your molding anywhere you feel like it.

Just make sure your 2 x 4 is shallow of where the molding will lie. You don't want it shoving the molding out of line anywhere.


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

Willie T,

Gotchya. One thing I can say is that a 2X4 would not work. I tried it. The spring angle was too small and would not fit nicely on the 2X4. So, I didn't go that route. I went another route with smaller nailing block and I nailed those into the studs at the corner of the ceiling and wall. Those worked just fine and wasn't at all a big deal to cut. 

I put up the some of the crown moulding (after we got the good mixture of stain to match the other trim in the house.). It looks excellent. Just an FYI--> I have a brad nailer and a finish nailer (borrowed from a friend). I first tried the brad nailer on one of the crown mouldings. It nailed directly into the nailing blocks that I put up. I did the second one with the finish nailer. The brad nailer worked just as good because they are both very sturdy. 

So far things are going well. I'm going to hold onto the finish nailer for a just-in-case situation but it hasn't been seen yet.


----------



## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

FYI, I am a newbie and am using a 15 gauge nailer, but one of the finish carpenty gurus, Gary Katz, says in a dvd on mastering crown moulding that he uses 18 gauge 2 1/8" brads for light crown. I beleive by light he means no bigger than 4 1/2". (I think it shoots 2 1/8" nails, may be 2""


----------



## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Along with what Willie said, if you are going to use the triangle rip, don't run them all the way into the inside corners. Stop about 6" short. If you run all the way in, it will interfere with your inside corner joint, if you are coping like you should be. If you place a piece of crown into the inside corner of a framing square, you can see how much space is left for your triangle piece. Just make it a little smaller in both directions so it doesn't actually touch the back of the crown.
Mike Hawkins




Willie T said:


> Ponch gave you a good tip. Not only is cutting up little nailer blocks a pain, but getting them into place is sometimes aggravating. A long, beveled 2 x 4 is the way to go. This serves exactly the same purpose as the hundreds of little blocks, is faster to make, and can be nailed into place easier. It also gives you the very well appreciated ability to nail and/or splice your molding anywhere you feel like it.
> 
> Just make sure your 2 x 4 is shallow of where the molding will lie. You don't want it shoving the molding out of line anywhere.


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

Klawman,

I valued very much on several occasions what others say here. However, with this situation for me in order to reduce costs. I had to say it but I disagreed with them and went went without the nail gun and used a Brad nailer. 

I used, I believe a 1/2x1 piece of wood on the spring angle. (I say 1/2x1 but it's been a while and I can't remember the measurement exactly (it's not like I can look either.)) But I used that on the spring angle and the brad nailer with the brad nails on the moulding. 

In some cases, I did not use or really need to use the the wood for the spring angle. It all worked out perfectly with the brad nailer. It looks beautiful and I did not have one problem at all. 

Well, let me back up...the biggest problem I had was NOT with the nailing but with the cuts for the crown moulding. It took a few times in the beginning and went through some extra moulding wood just to make sure I had the right way of cutting and all but I got it. It took a little bit of time but I got it. 

I have to say one of the toughest issues I had was that I had 1 (yes, 1) corner that was a bullnose corner and went to a 90 degress about 7 inches later. That piece right that was a real PITA because one side had to be the 22 degrees and the other for the 90. But I got that one too, over some trial and error. 

All-in-all, it looks beatiful and very supporting. The use of the brad nailer worked as I expected with the wood for the spring angle. 

I have received many a compliment on it.

Keep in mind, the information provided on this diychatroom has always been superb! I disagreed and wanted to try what I was getting at knowing and fully understanding it was at my own risk and had not panned out I would have definitely scrapped what I was thinking/doing and gone more with what was mentioned here. It turns not that everything panned out the way I was thinking and it worked as expected and looks beautiful. 

Either way, it will just take patience.  Good luck on that endeavor!!!


----------



## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

It sounds like you did a good job. The problem is not with the initial product, but how well it holds over time and that can depend on many variables such as your local weather and humidity. Many report having no problem with an 18 gauge, but sometimes it shows up in a season or more.


15 and 16 gauges are not only heavier nails, but their heads are shaped differently than a brad. Those heads tend to grip better than brad heads. The nails usually are coated with glue as opposed to brads. They also come greater lengths.

One way to increase the holding power of any nail is to cross nail at alternating angles.

Note my post about an expert using an 18 gauge brad to hang lighter crown.


----------



## davis_mc (Jul 3, 2008)

Yep, understand. 

What I did with the 1/2x1" wood is put that almost the length of the crown moulding. I nailed those to the the studs of the wall at the corner between the ceiling and the wall. Then I put the crown moulding over that and put the nail between through the center of the crown moulding and had it go into the 1/2X1 that was already nailed on. So the angle of the crown moulding provided enough room for the 1/2x1 to go in behind it. When I nailed the crown moulding to the 1/2x1 that made it very secure and have every belief that it will last over time.


----------



## Klawman (Nov 10, 2009)

Glad it turned out so well.


----------

