# Finishing Basement.



## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Applying XPS to the walls and taping all the joints will make for a good thermal break. If the walls are completely underground, they are geothermally correct anyway, but the XPS is always a good addition. Using the XPS, you will need to space your walls out further to accommodate it. Use Rockwool at R15 and 16" centers. Rockwool is waterproof, vermin proof, fireproof, mold proof, and requires no vapor barrier, so it is a plus-plus. I"ve never heard of XPS deteriorating, and would welcome corroboration to the fact. If you have not moisture issues, that is also a plus.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

XPS against the concrete block then a framed wall with insulation is the most commonly recommended approach these days. It will reduce condensation and will also allow the foundation to dry to the interior. 

24" oc framing is fine and will save a few bucks.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Rockwool R15 with 24" on center studs and leave it about 3/4" off the foundation wall 
This is the normal here, our concrete walls are never straight enough for foam board to be effective. We leave an air gap but we do not allow air flow. 
We fire stop and add vapour barrier.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

Take a look at this: Basement Insulation


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

chandler48 said:


> Applying XPS to the walls and taping all the joints will make for a good thermal break. If the walls are completely underground, they are geothermally correct anyway, but the XPS is always a good addition. Using the XPS, you will need to space your walls out further to accommodate it. Use Rockwool at R15 and 16" centers. Rockwool is waterproof, vermin proof, fireproof, mold proof, and requires no vapor barrier, so it is a plus-plus. I"ve never heard of XPS deteriorating, and would welcome corroboration to the fact. If you have not moisture issues, that is also a plus.


Thanks yes I took the 1inch space into my math with the wall pushed onto the XPS or do I need a small space between XPS and the 2x4 stud?
The walls being house on a hill back wall is


jim_bee said:


> XPS against the concrete block then a framed wall with insulation is the most commonly recommended approach these days. It will reduce condensation and will also allow the foundation to dry to the interior.
> 
> 24" oc framing is fine and will save a few bucks.


Ya I think I going to go with 16 inch on center just for extra studs since its going to turn into kids (3 girls lol) play area gives me lots of space for shelfs and TV to be mounted and all.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> Rockwool R15 with 24" on center studs and leave it about 3/4" off the foundation wall
> This is the normal here, our concrete walls are never straight enough for foam board to be effective. We leave an air gap but we do not allow air flow.
> We fire stop and add vapour barrier.


And that is where my father and uncle go at it LOL. my foundation is pretty straight its only got a 1/4 inch off level from top to bottom.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

jim_bee said:


> Take a look at this: Basement Insulation


So I am reading over that info and have a questions I saw this before in a forum and cant find it now. So that star I put in blue they talking about putting a sill plate there the roll of blue or pink foam????









Some way to use it some say don't in my mind it makes sense to use it, but the one wall I was going to glue metal track down then build my wall and put it in the plate. Reason being its this wall on the other side has a boiler for heat, hot water tank, washer, and main line of water for house here. My thought was put the track down glue then also tapcon it to floor and then drywall down till at the top of the metal track this way if it ever floods over there the water wont get to the drywall and the frame or go under the frame and into the next room.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

I've never used metal framing in a basement, but the sill gasket provides a thermal break. However, any wood framing attached to concrete should be treated, and wood bottom plates in the basement should be treated. 

Leaving a space between the drywall and the floor is definitely good.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

jim_bee said:


> I've never used metal framing in a basement, but the sill gasket provides a thermal break. However, any wood framing attached to concrete should be treated, and wood bottom plates in the basement should be treated.
> 
> Leaving a space between the drywall and the floor is definitely good.


Sorry I know it was a little confusing here a photo of what I mean by sitting the wall inside metal. Stilla all wood wall but just inside metal.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

So last questions with the xps what do most like to do at the top were the floor joist.

Cut foam to bottom of wood and then small blocks for inside the space or cut it into the board making it all one run. Also best way to seal with expand foam or caulk like cutting so there 1/4 inch between wood and foam then call or foam it????


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> So last questions with the xps what do most like to do at the top were the floor joist.
> 
> Cut foam to bottom of wood and then small blocks for inside the space or cut it into the board making it all one run. Also best way to seal with expand foam or caulk like cutting so there 1/4 inch between wood and foam then call or foam it????


There should be a fire stop between the wall and the floor system, different area have different codes to what that should be, Something like a 1/2" plywood above the top plate and sealed to the blocks.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Yes I got that sorry I talking about the XPS foam. Would you cut it flat to the top wood then cut small squares and put seam tape, or cut it around each so it fits like a puzzle. Sorry bad art work did it fast black is tape lol.

Also what do you like to do between the foam and the wood. Expansion foam or Caulk sealer?












Kind of like this with the foam around it how much of a gap do I leave to let the foam fill in the area well like 1/2" or 1/4" or more???


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I think you are better off with cutting the foam closer to tight and use a sealant to seal around it.
I changed this picture to show the fire stop below the floor joist tight to the foundation, sealant can be used there too.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> There should be a fire stop between the wall and the floor system, different area have different codes to what that should be, Something like a 1/2" plywood above the top plate and sealed to the blocks.


SO really I could go get sheet of 1/2" ply and cut in strips 4 1/2" x 8ft long (1inch foam and then 2x4 wall) and attach them to the floor joist now seal them in with fire stop calk then cut the pink foam in blocks to fit between each joist 1' 1 3/8" wide by 9 1/2" wall and put them in with some foam. Then cut the large sheet of foam 4' wide by 7' 4" high put them on the foundation wall then stand my wall up and push them tight to the foundation.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> SO really I could go get sheet of 1/2" ply and cut in strips 4 1/2" x 8ft long (1inch foam and then 2x4 wall) and attach them to the floor joist now seal them in with fire stop calk then cut the pink foam in blocks to fit between each joist 1' 1 3/8" wide by 9 1/2" wall and put them in with some foam. Then cut the large sheet of foam 4' wide by 7' 4" high put them on the foundation wall then stand my wall up and push them tight to the foundation.


Yes about like that.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

So I found this on my township website. So I dont see 1/2" on there. But rockwool is on there and they talk about every 10ft need firw blocking as well. Whats easy way to go about that when you have xps on the walls that would break the continuous vapor barrier. Then I would have wood on the foundations..... 

Would it be easyer to just use that fire block foam and put that between the stud and the foundation then continue with the XPS foam.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm curious about the "every 10 feet". Is that referring to fire-stopping for open truss floors?

I think your first plan will be easier, although a 1/2" of plywood may not meet your local code. Some require 3/4" plywood. But, as shown in Neal's post, installing a strip of fire stopping from the foundation to the outer face of the framing will be easy. If you want to get really thorough, you can also foam or caulk the joint between the fire stop and the foundation wall.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

jim_bee said:


> I'm curious about the "every 10 feet". Is that referring to fire-stopping for open truss floors?
> 
> I think your first plan will be easier, although a 1/2" of plywood may not meet your local code. Some require 3/4" plywood. But, as shown in Neal's post, installing a strip of fire stopping from the foundation to the outer face of the framing will be easy. If you want to get really thorough, you can also foam or caulk the joint between the fire stop and the foundation wall.


Im pretty sure its fire stop.


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## jim_bee (Feb 23, 2021)

Yeah, I wasn't questioning that the reference is to fire blocking or fire stopping--I'm just having trouble figuring out the "every ten feet". Maybe I just need more caffeine this morning.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

jim_bee said:


> Yeah, I wasn't questioning that the reference is to fire blocking or fire stopping--I'm just having trouble figuring out the "every ten feet". Maybe I just need more caffeine this morning.


Ya me to since you want to have the pink xps on the wall all sealed up but then ever 10 feet I need to put fire block. Same with the whole top of the wall having to have fire stop but they want to have a vapor seal all over lol.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Also I thinking might be easier to put do the 5/8 fire drywall at the top easier to cut and 12$ a sheet VS 41$ plywood sheet. and I can cut the drywall in the parking lot in half and put in my little Camry if I get the plywood I have to ask the wife for permission to use my Rav4.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

SO this is my new Idea LOL. Red is on top is 5/8 Fire rated Drywall, Red between stud and Foundation wall is Fire Block foam and will have same R value as the foam board this will go from floor to drywall. since its 10ft I will do it close to 10Ft and will foam between the stud wall (removed for the illustration) and foundation this way no wood is contacting the wall and keeps some vapor barrier. Is this over kill or am I thinking this way to hard.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Every 10 feet they want a stud or something sealed to the concrete so the fire can not spread sideways behind the wall.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> SO this is my new Idea LOL. Red is on top is 5/8 Fire rated Drywall, Red between stud and Foundation wall is Fire Block foam and will have same R value as the foam board this will go from floor to drywall. since its 10ft I will do it close to 10Ft and will foam between the stud wall (removed for the illustration) and foundation this way no wood is contacting the wall and keeps some vapor barrier. Is this over kill or am I thinking this way to hard.


Home Depot and most yards will cut the plywood in half for you no charge. 
I would put up the plywood Install the foam and every 10 ft put a 2x4 against the wall between the foam boards
with the ends cut like this for the top and bottom plates. 








Then when you build the wall you put a stud beside this stud and nail them. 
So in the wall they look like this. 







What ever your plan, go talk it over with an inspector and find out where you have to stop for inspections. 
Electrical before framing inspection?
Framing inspection before insulation? 
insulation and vapour barrier before drywall?


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

I am going to talk to the inspector he is a nice good guy. I just wanted a good game plan and have options incase there are things he does not like. He already told me I only need inspection after wall electric are all in before drywall. He not worryed about electrical since my father being retired electrican and worked alot in this township he knows his work. That's why I'm so focused on insulation and fire block and doing it right and we'll not cheap and fast.

In there info they have this listed as approved:

One thickness of 0.719-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels with joints backed by 0.719-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels.
This means 2 layers with joints over lap by 2nd sheet if both sheets are 1/4 this this would be ok to use or do I need thicker???


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> I am going to talk to the inspector he is a nice good guy. I just wanted a good game plan and have options incase there are things he does not like. He already told me I only need inspection after wall electric are all in before drywall. He not worryed about electrical since my father being retired electrican and worked alot in this township he knows his work. That's why I'm so focused on insulation and fire block and doing it right and we'll not cheap and fast.
> 
> In there info they have this listed as approved:
> 
> ...


1/2" thick is good most places, we can use 7/16 OSB


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> 1/2" thick is good most places, we can use 7/16 OSB


Ok so I get the board I posted. What do they mean by the part with with joints back by same size.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Looks like I have to go with the 3\4 ply


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> Looks like I have to go with the 3\4 ply


23/32 is the right product just make sure the join is between 2 joists and put a scab of the same above the join.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> 23/32 is the right product just make sure the join is between 2 joists and put a scab of the same above the join.
> View attachment 661600


Ok so what i thought any join needs 2nd ply over it. So with 8 feet strips and a 30ft wall I have 3 joints to cover with 2nd plywood.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Computerguy235 said:


> Ok so what i thought any join needs 2nd ply over it. So with 8 feet strips and a 30ft wall I have 3 joints to cover with 2nd plywood.


Yes, something like that. And corners.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Nealtw said:


> Yes, something like that. And corners.


Hey sorry been damn busy with the storms that came thought here school for me restarting and school for the kids restarting in person and work WAY UNDER STAFF.


So I meet with the inspector with my computer and all the drawings and data. He was happy and liked most of what I show him only thing he wanted the Thicker Plywood then the 1/2" and that was not a problem. He said I was going over board with the fire block caulk and then on top I did foam with fire block foam on bottom and small cuts of the 3/4 foam between joist to seal the gaps were joist go in to the Cinder. He said I can put the walls up and the insulation all. He said I only need an inspection when I go to add the bathroom, since I will have to cut the floor and tap the drain since the basement had walls before I took them down since they where wrong and done like crap. 

I have done 1 whole wall and both small side walls over the last 3 weeks. Now my wife is going over board with this entertainment system design for the kids stuff, that's what I get for marrying a graphic artist by trade.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

So I have run into a small problem that kind of piss me off. I have walls done most the rockwool in and electrical done. I was going online to order my drywall from lowes since they had 5/8 fire/mold. But now they only have it in 1/2 in stock I can order 5/8 but they charging 75$ shipping. I checked my Homedepot as well and they only have 5/8 fire or 1/2 mold. 

So my question is do I just go with the 1/2 I am not doing the celling yet since I have a lot of pipes to build around. So I also put 3/4 mud covers on al the outlets so I would have to change them as well and most have outlets in them and all done. Or should I go to store see what they can do about getting it for me??????


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Unless local code calls for the 5/8", I'd use 1/2". You wouldn't believe the weight difference in the two. It will literally wear you out.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

chandler48 said:


> Unless local code calls for the 5/8", I'd use 1/2". You wouldn't believe the weight difference in the two. It will literally wear you out.


No he said it was not required, and I know the weight I just helped a freind bring 5/8 reg fire board 4 x 12 sheets into his house 38 of them. Had to re do his whole Livingroom due to a flood and since he did not have flood insur since they are not in a flood zone LOL, he had to do it him self so I gave a hand for pizza and beer. 

I just like the 5/8 since its thicker and all. being in a basement with a 5 year old and a 11 year old they tend to do some damage and get way to loud so I was trying to drown them out LOL.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Be prepared to modify all your receptacles and light switches, as the 5/8 will cause a recess in them. Not much, but noticeable when putting on cover plates. Insulate with Rockwool in the ceiling to reduce sound transmission. Not totally, but an appreciable amount.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

Ya I already know the outlets I have to return the 3/4 mud covers for 1/2 inch ones. I not to worry about the floor joist yet. 

Wife is getting on me to have the kids side done with drywall and floor before holiday so she can use the area. 

So I know I asked the inspector about 5/8 but this is a new guy from who used to do it the last 38 years he retired in june. 
I was looking online just because when someone tells me something I like the have it is writing so I have proof. Well I found this and now I am not sure he is right and I was going to go get some drywall in the AM since I have acces to my truck. Am I reading this right......? This is saying I do need 5/8 but he said I dont since I am not putting drywall on ciling just rockwool.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

What is "what you found"? From what authority is it? Does it explicitly apply to you? If your inspector said 1/2" is OK, why research it to a point to where you find conflicting information? Sort of like doctor shopping when you don't feel good. Shop until you find one that agrees with your line of thought.


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## Computerguy235 (Jul 7, 2021)

chandler48 said:


> What is "what you found"? From what authority is it? Does it explicitly apply to you? If your inspector said 1/2" is OK, why research it to a point to where you find conflicting information? Sort of like doctor shopping when you don't feel good. Shop until you find one that agrees with your line of thought.


HAHA that Doc line is kind of bad on me because I did that and it ended up putting me in a hospital and out of work for close to a year. But it was the retired inspector that told me 1/2 was ok but I have not talked to the guy who took over 3 months ago. And no I have not found my township its self but they dont post alot of stuff on there site this is from the township 1 over from mine. 

Like I said I like to have stuff on paper I got burned real bad 4 years ago by somone I trusted for 10 years and was in my weeding and he burned me big time. SInce it was all he said she said the court could only make him pay me 1/2 of what I should have because the words I will pay you are not in writing anywhere. only a text that said "I thought you could use the $." So sorry between that and my Doc **** I am very analytical about stuff now and ya IT SUCKS!.


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