# Drywall Repair Questions



## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sure these questions have been asked many times here but I have been unable to find anything. Probably because I don't know all the terms.

I've done quite a bit of painting so I'd like to think I'm pretty good at prep work and repairing drywall damage. I'm getting ready to do some more painting and I have some problems I have not dealt with before.

About ten years ago I had a roof leak that cause some minor damage to the ceiling. Near one of the spots there is some minor sagging which I plan to shore up with drywall screws. The problem is that on some nails I have "sink holes" (I do not know the correct term) which I think are the opposite of nail pops. The nail heads are not exposed. How do I fix these?

I've always struggled with chipping wall corners. Mine have metal caps with putty over them. Could someone explain the best way to do this right?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Your 'sink holes' are caused by the wet drywall sagging away from the screws---

You are going to have to float that area with drywall compound if you wish to save the old baggy drywall.

Corner bead should be filled with Durrabond (the powdered mix)--it's quite hard and resists chipping and popping.


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> I'm sure these questions have been asked many times here but I have been unable to find anything. Probably because I don't know all the terms.
> 
> I've done quite a bit of painting so I'd like to think I'm pretty good at prep work and repairing drywall damage. I'm getting ready to do some more painting and I have some problems I have not dealt with before.
> 
> About ten years ago I had a roof leak that cause some minor damage to the ceiling. Near one of the spots there is some minor sagging which I plan to shore up with drywall screws. The problem is that on some nails I have "sink holes" (I do not know the correct term) which I think are the opposite of nail pops. The nail heads are not exposed. How do I fix these?


Mike is correct in that "Your 'sink holes' are caused by the wet drywall sagging away from the screws or nails". Before coating you first need to add screws to suck the sagging sheets back up. You may have to start where the drywall is tight to the rafters and work your way across. If you start at the saggiest part your screws may keep popping before sucking it tight due to the sheetrock now being dried in a deformed sag.



Hurriken said:


> I've always struggled with chipping wall corners. Mine have metal caps with putty over them. Could someone explain the best way to do this right?


I wish I could see pics of your chipping corners so I could be sure.

Anyways if your corners are metal clinch-on style or any other fully metal cornerbead, then I believe what you are talking about is quite common (with metal bead). This is due to the very corner of the bead is bare metal after the sanding is done. After painted the very corner of the beaded edge does have its paint chipped off fairly easily when bumped with furniture, etc.

Note: If the chips are not just on the very edge of the corner and popped on the sides of the metal bead then it was not installed properly to avoid this

Clinch-on cornerbead:









The beadex type cornerbead which is metal reinforced *paper* backed bead usually does not experience the paint chipping of the very corner of the bead due to the paper outside that helps bond the paint to the very corner edge. 

Beadex cornerbeads:


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Your absolutely correct. I tried to screw the drywall back to the ceiling last night and it kept popping the screws. Its isn't a big area, probably 2x2, so I think the ultimate fix is replace that section. However, there is a nearby wall that I most likely tear into when I start my remodel in a few years. (were hoping for summer 2012) so I will replace it then. My father suggested that I soak it using a spray bottle and then screw a peice of plywood up there and let it dray. After it dries remove the plywood, add screws, and finish. I'm not sure if that would work or not.

Here are a couple pictures of the corners. be aware that I scraped away loose material.


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> Your absolutely correct. I tried to screw the drywall back to the ceiling last night and it kept popping the screws. Its isn't a big area, probably 2x2, so I think the ultimate fix is replace that section. However, there is a nearby wall that I most likely tear into when I start my remodel in a few years. (were hoping for summer 2012) so I will replace it then. My father suggested that I soak it using a spray bottle and then screw a peice of plywood up there and let it dray. After it dries remove the plywood, add screws, and finish. I'm not sure if that would work or not.
> 
> Here are a couple pictures of the corners. be aware that I scraped away loose material.


Yes you do have the metal bead I was speaking of. Those chips are clearly from being bumped with furniture, etc.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

So I should use Durabond on it then?


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> So I should use Durabond on it then?


Yes, it would be a good fill for the chipped out spots. It may even help to put a light film all the way down the very point of the exposed metal corner to help act as a bonder/primer for the paint. Keep in mind you cannot sand durabond so coat it how you want it to look when painted.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

MnDrywallRanger said:


> Keep in mind you cannot sand durabond so coat it how you want it to look when painted.


I am very glad that you said this! I might have really done myself in!


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## williamwiens (Nov 13, 2010)

mixing small batches of 20 minute in a pan might be enough.
up here durabond comes in 2 versions. a white bag and a brown bag.
brown bag is not sandable
white bag is.


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

williamwiens said:


> mixing small batches of 20 minute in a pan might be enough.
> up here durabond comes in 2 versions. a white bag and a brown bag.
> brown bag is not sandable
> white bag is.


The brown bag is a *true* durabond....as stated on the bag.

Here is a pic of the brown bag...









The white bag is a USG product called "Easysand" that comes in different setting times just like durabond but is *not* durabond. It does not bond like durabond. It does dry harder than regular joint compound and is still sandable either wet or dry....wet being when the product is just set up to hardness but not completely dry.

It is a "slang" term for drywallers to call the white bag Easysand "Durabond" too....for whatever reason or how it caught on...who knows?

The white bag Easysand would flake right off the metal so I would not use it to act as a bonder as stated in previous post. I do use Easysand quite often for prefill in sheetrock gaps, blowouts, etc before I tape a job. 

Here is a pic of the white bag...


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> Your absolutely correct. I tried to screw the drywall back to the ceiling last night and it kept popping the screws. Its isn't a big area, probably 2x2, so I think the ultimate fix is replace that section. However, there is a nearby wall that I most likely tear into when I start my remodel in a few years. (were hoping for summer 2012) so I will replace it then. *"My father suggested that I soak it using a spray bottle and then screw a peice of plywood up there and let it dray. After it dries remove the plywood, add screws, and finish. I'm not sure if that would work or not."*


Interesting....I'm sure it would work. But how will you soak it through the paint? Can you access the sag from the attic? Never thought of it that way....


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I tried putting screws in it again tonight. I think the best thing is to replace that section.


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> I tried putting screws in it again tonight. I think the best thing is to replace that section.


I was thinking that would be an easier fix....:thumbsup:


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

However...I have never taped before. But I have did take care of a wall that someone else taped but did not sand.

So...

1) Cut out the area to be replaced. 
2) Clean the studs and trim the exposed drywall.
3) Cut a piece to fit the opening but not snug.
4) Screw it in place.
5) Use joint compound to fill the gaps and tape the seams.
6) After it dries sand and add some more compound dry and sand until finished.

How does that sound?


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> However...I have never taped before. But I have did take care of a wall that someone else taped but did not sand.
> 
> So...
> 
> ...


Pretty much sums it up....any texture on the ceiling to match in?


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Nope. I like my walls smooooooth!


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

When I cut the bad section out should I just cut the bad part or should I worry about where the studs are? The damaged section is about 42"x40".

Is it better to stay off the edge between wall and ceiling?

Which tape should I buy?

Also is there a difference between deck screws and drywall screws? I have tons of deck screws but no drywall screws.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Just to be clear here are two photos. I tried patching the screw holes...that is when I decided to just replace the section.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

My wife tried to talk me out of this. She wants the room painted yesterday. That was until she saw the mold on the backside of the panel. Then she wanted it all out! The torn spot in the insulation was done by mice. They chewed the wet cardboard off of the backside of the dry wall. Gypsum, fiberglass, and mold my sinuses are absolutely thrilled! In this whole section there were only 4 nails.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

Hurriken said:


> I am very glad that you said this! I might have really done myself in!


Oh yeah durabond is a pita to sand…:yes:


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> My wife tried to talk me out of this. She wants the room painted yesterday. That was until she saw the mold on the backside of the panel. Then she wanted it all out! The torn spot in the insulation was done by mice. They chewed the wet cardboard off of the backside of the dry wall. Gypsum, fiberglass, and mold my sinuses are absolutely thrilled! In this whole section there were only 4 nails.


I'm surprised you chose to cut out the repair spot away from the corner like this....very good choice (when it is an option)!

I am between tasks right now and will be out for the night....LOL....I'll be back to chime in when I'm 3 sheets to the wind...LOL...:drink:


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I screwed up. I bought 5/8" drywall because I measured a gap in the wall out in the garage. Turns out the ceiling is only 1/2". Found out after I cut it. Back to the store I go. 

I thought about building an addition on my house but I'm afraid my mistakes would cost me a fortune!


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

Hurriken said:


> I thought about building an addition on my house but I'm afraid my mistakes would cost me a fortune!


Naw…that’s how you learn…:whistling2:


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## MnDrywallRanger (Mar 12, 2011)

Hurriken said:


> I screwed up. I bought 5/8" drywall because I measured a gap in the wall out in the garage. Turns out the ceiling is only 1/2". Found out after I cut it. Back to the store I go.
> 
> I thought about building an addition on my house but I'm afraid my mistakes would cost me a fortune!


You better check your building codes for your location.

Most areas around the country have a building code for 5/8" sheetrock on the ceilings for fire ratings.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Little late now, but, depending on the condition of the rock and how much sag is involved, I have made a 2x4 grid-like frame to push ceiling dw back up to the joists and then put new screws in.

Dab of mud, some mud on crumpled newspaper or trashbag to match texture as best I could, done.

But there had been no leak that I was aware of. In your case with the mold, it was definitely best to replace, imo.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Too bad they don't make boards of variable thickness...

I went back and bought the 1/2" board, cut it and mounted it.









It seems to fit pretty well at least for a novice.










Fits right in there like a hand in a glove. Until I looked at the wall side.










That side seems to be effected by the bow. Not much I can do but I think the putty will fix it. I hope. It is a little severe but what can I do? I'm going to pop a few more screws in and start taping it. If I could change something I would not have cut the ends of the hole past the beams. I would have cut them halfway so that I could pop a few screws in there.

EDIT: I changed my mind. I think eight screws is enough. No need to go crazy on a piece that is 50"X25", right?

It's strange how the walls look pink in the pictures. They look off white in regular light. I amm ashamed to say I haven't painted this room in the 18 years we have been here. I guess it's about time I fix it up, eh?


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## leungw (Apr 20, 2009)

It might be better to take the board out, shim the wall side, and then put the board back.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I guess I'm too impatient (when I say "I" mean the other I) because I puttied it up last night.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I thought I had posted to this already today.

Any way, is it me, or are the ceiling joists sagging in the whole room?


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I think that is just an illusion in the photo. If I stand on the stairs at ceiling level it looks nice and even and smooth. I learned that in 1978 when the house was built that it was common practice in this area to glue the dry wall (ceiling and floors) and use very few nails to secure it. recently my friend was moving a ceiling fixture and discovered that in much of one room the ceiling was hanging almost an inch below the joists! he spent last weekend screwing the whole room back in place. he was worried but he said it worked good. Mine is not sagging except where the water damage was. unfortuneatly I have a similar spot in the bedroom. But that is for another day.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

The grid I mentioned building for correcting a sag was like 2' wide and maybe 4' long with one 2x4 in the middle. Jacked or jammed against the ceiling this kept the dw up against the ceiling joists while I installed screws. This spreads the pressure on the dw and allows several screws to be installed. Less chance of tear through then with the single screw at a time method as the dw is against the joist. 

In your case where glue has been used, you might want to be careful anyway as the dried glued will prolly not let the dw go all the way against the joist.

Might be something to consider.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

I wish I would have thought of that. Kind of obvious actually. Oh well

Anyway a little time out here. The paste wasn't dry enough to sand today so I tried my hand on the corner chips. I purchased the brown bag of Durabond and mixed up a batch. I found it extremely difficult to work with. I ended up calling it a night. I was hoping you folks would have some tips....


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

In one of the pictures, it looks like the old dw is floating and is not attached to the ceiling joist where the new dw is attached. It should be attached, not left floating.

The gap between the new and the old looks excessive to me.

Need a few more screws in the new rock, unless you have put more in since the picture was taken.

I hope you cut the ragged edges of the paper off before you mudded.

Some would have primed the area to be mudded that had paint on it.

I have never used Duroc, but I think it should have dried overnight, unless it was too watery or too thick.

Wish you luck on fixing the difference between the new dw and old near the corner with mud. I doubt I would attempt that. I'd end up feathering that half across the room adding more weight to what looks like is already sagging from the shadow on the ceiling.

I might would go all the way to the wall/corner and repainted the wall too.

If there is that much difference and the new dw is the same thickness as the old, looks to me like there is sag even that close to the wall.

You might can shim the new to bring it down even with the old, but if anyone ever tries to push the rock up and reinstall screws, they will wonder why that area (shimmed area) will not go up to the joists.

I noticed what looked like a stain on the wall at the corner. What is going on there, moisture? When you get new paint on the ceiling, is that going to jump out at you?

Just some thoughts on the situation. Good luck.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

While "floating interior angles" are not required, they are 'permitted' in section 4.9.1 (I think that's it.. on page 7 or 8) of the GA 216 2010 literature.
And for very good reason. Floating interior angles help prevent a big problem with not only 'truss uplift', but also with wall deflection from the lack of stability inherent in the cheaper and cheaper methods of framing prevalent in the industry today.

You will end up with a much better drywall job years down the road (after climate changes have moved your lumber around a few times) if you install your boards with floating interior angles at not only the ceiling-to-wall joints, but also at the wall-to-wall corners.

This means that you should put no fastenters within about 7" (max) of the wall on ceiling boards, and no closer than around 8" (max) from the board corner angles (that's for both ceiling and wall joints) on the wall boards.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Hurriken said:


> I wish I would have thought of that. Kind of obvious actually. Oh well
> 
> Anyway a little time out here. The paste wasn't dry enough to sand today so I tried my hand on the corner chips. I purchased the brown bag of Durabond and mixed up a batch. I found it extremely difficult to work with. I ended up calling it a night. I was hoping you folks would have some tips....


It sounds contradictory to common sense, but try mixing it a little on the stiff side.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Willie T said:


> While "floating interior angles" are not required, they are 'permitted' in section 4.9.1 (I think that's it.. on page 7 or 8) of the GA 216 2010 literature.
> And for very good reason. Floating interior angles help prevent a big problem with not only 'truss uplift', but also with wall deflection from the lack of stability inherent in the cheaper and cheaper methods of framing prevalent in the industry today.
> 
> You will end up with a much better drywall job years down the road (after climate changes have moved your lumber around a few times) if you install your boards with floating interior angles at not only the ceiling-to-wall joints, but also at the wall-to-wall corners.
> ...


Agreed about the corner angles. The part I referred to is at the narrow end of his repair. Looks like it goes just past the joist, and the old dw is left floating. I am saying that old dw should not be left floating. 

Maybe it is not, but it looks to be floating not attached to anything.

Actually, I am not so sure I would not have gone all the way to the corner angles, since there is a strain on the wall anyway and just repainted the wall.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I looked at the picture again. Looks like the old was cut out past the joists on each end instead of in the middle of the joists, and there are now screws or nails in the old dw, which tells me it is just floating on its own. 

I guess if there is no joist or backer board there, there is no reason for fasteners of any kind. There is nothing there for them to bite into.

Oh well, good luck. Going to be a learning experience. 

BY the time you sleep on the sofa for a couple of nights, you might decide to hire someone. :whistling2:

Just kidding, you can do it, if you are persistant and determined.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah, the whole repair could have used a bit more attention to detail.....


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

_EDIT: First paragraph was better left unsaid! - Ken
_ 
As I said I had never done a big repair like this. Tuesday night I puttied it up and as of noon today it still was not dry. Last night a good friend of mine called and he knew I was working on the living room so he offered to come over and help. He was a pipe fitter for many years and learned how to drywall by watching and talking to dry-wallers. He also likes to help other people. He has done it many times.

Today he came over and looked at my work. He had a strange look on his face but he didn't say anything. He said it was OK...er...lets see what we can do. Sanding led to scraping, and scraping led to probing the cracks. He politely asked if he could peel a bit of the tape away and look. I said "look, I want to do this right so do what you have to do". He peeled a little bit away. I grabbed it and pulled it all the way off. The long/short? We then removed the board and he saw what you saw. He explained how it worked and that it would crack later, so we went and bought a new piece of DW and cut the hole on both ends down to the next stud. Like you said, so that half was overlapping. We also used a straight edge to make an even rectangle. We popped four screws in each end and mounted a new piece of board. BTW, it really was 1/2 inch board.


































As you can see it is much more even now. The gap on the right is a bit bigger than we hoped but he said we could live with it. We taped it up and used the brown bag Durabond to fill it.


















Sometimes you learn things the hard way. We will put joint compound over the Durabond to finish it. We also shored up the surrounding area with more screws. He said "If it was me...I would add a lot more screws especially near the nail pops. I hemmed and hawed and he said "Do it now or do it later"! I did it. I did three complete joists. and am debating if I should do more. My wife thinks I'm making work for myself. The thing is In some places I actually felt the ceiling rising up to the stud. Maybe I did create more work but I surely didn't hurt anything. It is also ten times easier with two people.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

*Oh well, good luck. Going to be a learning experience. 

BY the time you sleep on the sofa for a couple of nights, you might decide to hire someone. 

Just kidding, you can do it, if you are persistant and determined. *

You call that bashing?? Did you read the last sentence?

We knew you were not experienced at this,hence "learning experience".

I feel likke we were trying to help you some trouble down the road.

You are right about one thing, the whole thing resulted in some bashing (of the ones trying to help) imo.

Glad you got it all figured out.

I'm through.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Look it's a long been a long few days I'm tired. I'm am also under the gun but that isn't your problem. I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm sorry.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

You did your best. And it really wasn't all that bad. As I said, the whole repair simply needed a bit more attention to detail. You couldn't have known what specific details. Thankfully, you found someone who did know.

Had any of us been there and been able to look up there and put hands on the situation, it would have been (as it turned out to be) a relatively easy fix. Even now, there might have been a couple of more touches that would bring things around easier. But that is all water under the bridge, and you are well on your way to an acceptable patch job.


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## Hurriken (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks Willie. The thing is I'm pretty sure, now that I understand it better, that I ended up doing a lot of what you all were saying and I was trying but I just wasn't getting it. Sometimes you say things you'd like to take back. What can I say?

The truth is I learned an awful lot more screwing this thing up than if everything had "accidentally" gone right.

I read earlier that you hadn't used Durabond before. We only used it to fill the gaps and a light first coat. The nice thing is that it dried fast and is very firm. We were worried that it might freeze from the attic side because temperatures are dropping tonight. I suspect that may be why the normal joint compound didn't dry completely after 48 hours.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

> The truth is I learned an awful lot more screwing this thing up than if everything had "accidentally" gone right.


Now you are getting what I meant by a *"learning experience".*
Been there, done that.
I was told I used too much mud by my mother-in-law of all people! Teed me off.

Hell, you could hang a coat hanger on my first patch on a wall. Not really, but it was very thick. I left it that way for a while to remind me. 

Someone had put a foot through the wall. Still can't remember exactly why she did that. :whistling2: Actually, I do. :wink:

But, I was *"persistant and determined"* to learn it. I am fairly confident with it now.


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## lrobertstoner (Mar 18, 2011)

you have a tape coat this is mud on covering gap then paper put over mud then wiped tight usually done with a 5" or 6" knife the second coat is the builder coat this actually floats the mudd to fill up and cover the tape usually done with a 10" broad knife the third coat is a skim coat mudd is thinned down and applied using a 12" knife this fills up air bubbles kills small edges and minor flaws in the mudd after ech coat has dryed go to next step sand last then touch up usually you can use a 5" to touch up metal bead has to be nailed on if it is clinched and tagged you will have problems all the time with sheet rock mudd popping off the bead re-air it correctly tear off and apply new make sure to secure firmly to walls then mudd properly


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