# Fsbo



## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Wasn't sure if this needed go here or off-topic, but here goes:

My mom is putting her house on the market. 
She has told me that after the professional painting and carpet is finished, but before she "officially" lists it with a realtor I can sell it for her. As in, she wants to put a FSBO sign out front with my phone number so I field calls and showings. She told me if manage to sell it before she has to get a realtor the. I get a $5,000 commission. It's a ton of work but that money would be so great I'm willing to at least try. (I'm also realistic about my limitations an realize it probably won't happen.)

I've done quite a bit of reading about the FSBO process but I still have a couple of questions. 

There is a ton of work she is finishing up before she gets a realtor. Do I tell people looking at the house about this or wait for them to ask? And, do I mention that the house isn't officially on the market yet but that it will be soon? Would this be motivation for a buyer? What would you think if you were a buyer?


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

If you are selling it FSBO then it is on the market. Its just not on the MLS Its called exclusive.

Since you will be there for showings, play it out with each individual. Don't say too much during the showing. Realtors are notorious for talking themselves out of a deal. 

Don't say "oh we are painting that ugly green wall." You never know what peoples tastes are and you may insult.

However, at the end of the showing you will have a good sense of whether they were feeling the love or not. If you feel like you are losing them that is the time to reveal your plans to upgrade the defects.

Good luck

Also, there is nothing wrong with mentioning that you have plans to list. It could motivate a Buyer if they think that the savings of going FSBO will be reflected back to the Buyer, rather then into a commission


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

You're right. I worded it wrong; I guess I did mean it doesn't have an MLS listing but that it will soon. I just didn't know if that would be motivation for a buyer or not.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

As I said it would be for some, but I think you should be prepared to compensate a Realtor who brings a buyer. I have clients who would refuse to even look at a FSBO if they thought they had no pro. protection


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

creeper said:


> As I said it would be for some, but I think you should be prepared to compensate a Realtor who brings a buyer. I have clients who would refuse to even look at a FSBO if they thought they had no pro. protection


From what I have read my understanding is when you FSBO you need to let buyer's agents know they will get a 1-2% commission. Does that sound right to you?


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

When I approach a FSBO the first thing I ask is are they willing to work with a Buyer's Broker. Then the commission negotiating begins. Personally, I charge more than that, but it can also depends if the Realtor has that Buyer under contract or not and how well you know your client and they're level of loyalty. There is a risk that the Buyer could walk away and approach the home owner privately.

Rates are negotiable, but I suppose they also reflect the price of housing in a particular area. Why would I put my rear and my license on the line (there is always the possibilty of a lawsuit) for a measly 1 percent of a $100,000 deal.

If I were you when a Realtor asks how much you are willing to compensate, start low and don't be afraid to ask if the Buyer is under contract. 

Whatever you do, make sure you insert into any offer that it is conditional upon the Seller's solicitor's approval.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

It's a $490 k house if that makes any difference. Part of why my mom wants to take a stab at selling it without a realtor first and I don't blame her.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Best of luck to you and your mom.

It has been proven that using a Realtor will result in your home selling faster and for more $. Plus, when you factor in the time taken off work to accomodate showings, then back and forth to your lawyer during negotiations you will soon realize that you may be better off hiring a competent Realtor and that they actually do earn every penny they charge.

Sometimes, it does work out for FSBO's but be forewarned I've seen them end horribly as well.

Another tip....know your market,,,go visit your competion and see what you are up against


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I absolutely appreciate the knowledge and skills a good realtor brings to the table and that's part of why we're both looking at this as a "won't hurt to try" mindset.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> Thanks for the advice. I absolutely appreciate the knowledge and skills a good realtor brings to the table and that's part of why we're both looking at this as a "won't hurt to try" mindset.


Then know your market..decide on your bottom line..and be prepared with some solid reasons why your home is worth what it is. If they offered if the first place then they really want your home. 

Don't get emotional..nobody cares that you kids were born there or Aunty got married in the back yard. This is business and these attachments mean nothing to a Buyer. They have no monetary value

I always tell my clients not to get insulted during the first round. Todays buyers are savy and they will almost always lowball you with the first offer. Don't get your back up and blow the deal. 

Always make the other side kill the deal. Even if it means signing back at $500 or less. Do whatever it takes to keep it alive and if they walk then you did your best.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Keep us informed of your progress. I'm interested to know the final result


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Not saying you should not try on your own but remember that a house sitting and not moving is a dangerous thing. Presumptions build about what is wrong with it every minute the sign sits out front. If you have not been able to move it in a reasonable period of time turn it over. 

I have lived in two major camps when it comes to furnishings. It seems on both coasts agents prefer homes with nice furnishings and there are companies that rent furniture just for short periods to stage houses. Agents in the Midwest think spaces look best empty. I dunno. I do know when selling a home it should be as uncluttered and spotless clean at all times as possible. Build a fire or burn some campfire memories incense in the fireplace---even if it is 140 degrees F outside. Have the HVAC set to a reasonable temp. I have seen people try to sell things here when it is 400 below zero. One super agent of mine had a frig full of cookie dough I think because you always smelled fresh cookies when viewing a home with her. Coffee fumes are nice too. Real flowers, never plastic or silk, and fresh fruit always catch my eye. I walked away from a rather spectacular purchase once with every part of the house spotless. The swimming pool looked and smelled like a swamp. Do scoop the poop and clean the litter boxes if you have furry loved ones. 

Make sure you print up some nice post cards or brochures about the property. If you do not have a floorplan to offer you should measure everything and make one. I use Sweet Home 3D which has a fast learning curve. It is available for all platforms, is open source and free as are extra symbol libraries. Get nice signage and not just a hardware store FSBO thing. Places like VistaPrint or FastSigns will help you out for not a whole lot of money. There are also companies that will mail a minimum quantity one card to a prospect the day they see your home. Spectacular, glossy resort type card hits your potential buyer with key points they liked about your place as fast as first class mail gets it to them. Others will not think to do this. Each will cost you $1 or something addressed and with postage. 

I sometimes groaned paying real estate commissions but my agents were great about showing properties at weird hours, pre-qualifying buyers, eliminating buyers trying to sucker punch and get away with things and in title company closing states I worked in agents were able to close for me too. 

Look into some of the FSBO companies that package things if you want to try this. You are definitely going to need good legal counsel for closing so you might as well find somebody now too. I think the FSBO companies offer access to multiple listing services too? I have honestly never sold or bought a home that way although I have done private deals. 

Good luck! Maybe you find that you like it and a career path opens. Some of my real estate agents love the competition and stress. I don't have the patience and frankly agents have always done right and made me money. I have been in client properties when some absolute airheads show people through and I just shake my head. 

It has always been well worth their percentage---which is highly negotiable---if you must beat them up. Not sure where you are but $495,000 sounds like it could be a nice home?


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> It's a $490 k house if that makes any difference. Part of why my mom wants to take a stab at selling it without a realtor first and I don't blame her.


 
Look if your mom is not in a hurry to sell then by all means let her try selling it herself. Why pay a Realty Company commision of roughly $26000 if say the house would sell in 2 weeks? Hire a Real Estate attorney and let him oversee the paperwork if you are uncertain.

Remember this. A realtor does not sell a house. The house will sell itself.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

hammerlane said:


> Remember this. A realtor does not sell a house. The house will sell itself.


Must strongly disagree. A good realtor, for the buyer or the seller, will be able to spit forth all kinds of information about taxes, schools, parks, sewer assessments, street plowing, political and demographics of the hood. A good realtor will know who built the house, who renovated it and about all permits and inspections. There may be historical restrictions on either homes or properties and other quirky ordinances. He or she will also know about banks and mortgage brokers who might lend money to buy the place. And most certainly they will know of a good title company and or attorney to help someone coming from far, far away to close. 

Most importantly, if I happened to be thinking of looking at your house? Mine could tell me before I hopped a plane how long you had been trying to sell, the original asking prices and final closing figures of all comparable properties near you. If interested, we would come at you with sharp teeth. Unless your place is spectacular, this is not yet a seller's market. 

I understand, but it amazes me people skimp not wanting to hand over fairly minimal fees to a real estate person.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

sdsester said:


> A good realtor, for the buyer or the seller, will be able to spit forth all kinds of information about taxes, schools, parks, sewer assessments, street plowing, political and demographics of the hood.


And whether that spitting of information is accurate is up to the buyer to verify. And honestly who buys a house nowadays because it is close to a bus route and local shopping.



sdsester said:


> A good realtor will know who built the house, who renovated it and about all permits and inspections.


Very easy nowadays to check via the county Auditors website and the City building department. 



sdsester said:


> He or she will also know about banks and mortgage brokers who might lend money to buy the place. And most certainly they will know of a good title company and or attorney to help someone coming from far, far away to close .


Do we really need to go into the main reason why a specific lender and a specific title company are referred to by realtors. It may not always be because the title company or attorney is the "best" as you state.



sdsester said:


> it amazes me people skimp not wanting to hand over fairly minimal fees to a real estate person.


This seller in about 3 hours of time can have all the data you mentioned above placed on a flyer. But I understand that realtors have families and need to eat also. Like I said before if the seller is in no time constraint to sell then try it by owner.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

hammerlane said:


> Like I said before if the seller is in no time constraint to sell then try it by owner.


No issue with any of your points but this one. You cannot leave a house on the market just because you are in no hurry to sell it! Nothing screams something wrong, real or imagined with a property, than a for sale sign on the lawn for ages? Maybe it is just because the owner wants $30,000 more than the market will bear and the house probably deserves to fetch the amount and more? It doesn't change the perception. 

Actually there is one thing worse, which happens next. The price starts dropping to the number at which it should have been listed in the first place. And the FSBO tries to increment it over six seven months, maybe missing a prime buying season. 

The final reason I think owners should not sell their own homes is few are able to let go of them. People viewing real estate can be brutal and without objective distance a real estate agent can provide? There is a reason owners are not allowed at open houses you know.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

sdsester said:


> No issue with any of your points but this one. You cannot leave a house on the market just because you are in no hurry to sell it! Nothing screams something wrong, real or imagined with a property, than a for sale sign on the lawn for ages? .


 
I'll agree on that


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow. Thanks everyone for the awesome advice. 

The deal is, my mom has about 2-3 months of work she wants to do before she is ready to list. In the meantime she doesn't want people to not be able to look at it. So I get that 2-3 months to attempt to get the commission. Not to mention I'm doing a ton of the cleaning/staging!!

And yes, it is a nice house. She got the plans for another house in the area she wanted and had it built to her exact wants 10 years ago. 5 bedrooms, 3 1/3 baths inside, plus office and formal dining, 4700 square feet, 2 car attached garage, 2 car detached garage with another two piece bathroom, barn, in-ground pool, all on 20 acres on a controlled access highway with two driveways. 

Haha, look at me, I'm trying to sell it on the DIY forum.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Need an Agent?? hahaha

Good points about it being on the market for too long. It does create a stigma. However, the good news is that it will not create a stigma with the Agents because they're not even seeing it yet. 
The fall market is just around the corner. I say go for it now and get a jump start.

Keep track of all potential buyers who come through before you list. Then when the updates are complete, your Agent can send them the listing which should address in the content of the text all the wonderful changes that make this a spectacular property.

If you want to do this then the time is now. 
Declutter, Declutter, Declutter


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Here is 1/2 of the living room area. Please don't mind the mess, we are in the process of packing up 50% of what she owns to declutter it.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

We posted at the same time 

I was planning to keep track of everyone that I spoke with and those that came to see the house. Partly because I read a FSBO can bring around looky-loos that may try to steal from you. Yes, I will be pointing out the full security system.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

As a female you must be aware of YOUR security. Not all men who come alone will be up to no good, but if you are selling a family home in a family neighbourhood, be very careful if a Mrs. is not present. 

Try to have someone else attend showings with you, even if they just hang out in the back garden. Their presence will be a deterrent for anyone with less then honorable intentions. 

You will also have a lot of tire kickers and nosey people who have no intention of moving. You can qualify timewasters by asking simple questions such as Do you have a house to sell ( be wary of anybody who does not in your price bracket) Is it listed and by whom
When were you planning on moving
Why do you like this area


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

So... I thought I would give an update...

I have been working my rear off and holy crap this house is big!!!
I have revoked my mom's wallpaper privileges, I am finally being appreciated for the skills I have, and we have decided to go ahead and put the sign out even though it is NO WHERE near ready. We figure someone looking and saying no isn't any worse than no one looking at all. 

Ps, don't live in a new house for ten years and just not do anything at all. Grrrr!!!


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

creeper said:


> As I said it would be for some, but I think you should be prepared to compensate a Realtor who brings a buyer. I have clients who would refuse to even look at a FSBO if they thought they had no pro. protection


My opinion. I don't how the real estate industry works in USA. If the buyer brings a realtor let the buyer pay the realtor.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

joed said:


> My opinion. I don't how the real estate industry works in USA. If the buyer brings a realtor let the buyer pay the realtor.


If selling by owner and prior to signing any purchase agreement, you have no legal obligation for a buyer's realtor to be due any money from the seller's side. By all means the purchase agreement could state that the buyer pays all realtor fees.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

joed said:


> My opinion. I don't how the real estate industry works in USA. If the buyer brings a realtor let the buyer pay the realtor.


Unless under contract with a Realtor, why would a Buyer offer to pay. 

If I'm working with a Buyer and we spot a fsbo that we'd like to see. A loyal or under contract Buyer always lets me approach the Seller. If they refuse to co-operate, we move on.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> If selling by owner and prior to signing any purchase agreement, you have no legal obligation for a buyer's realtor to be due any money from the seller's side. By all means the purchase agreement could state that the buyer pays all realtor fees.


It could state that, but I guarantee you that if you don't co-operate with a Realtor your Buyer pool just shrunk by about 90%


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> . A loyal or under contract Buyer always lets me approach the Seller. If they refuse to co-operate, we move on.


Thats a selfish realtor. The buyer may be passing on their dream home just because their realtor will not get the 80% of the 3.5%


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> I guarantee you that if you don't co-operate with a Realtor your Buyer pool just shrunk by about 90%


You may be correct. Although I don't agree on the 90% number.

Again it all comes down to how pressed or time-constrained the seller is to sell.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> Thats a selfish realtor. The buyer may be passing on their dream home just because their realtor will not get the 80% of the 3.5%


Gimme a break..selfish realtor 

When you go to work are you there on a volunteer basis.? So all your time and effort so far ...free . Your expenses...free.

If someone asked you to install a new floor and you began the process. Taken the time to do the preliminary research, driven over there on your gas ( don't forget to pay the sitter and wear your best bus. cloths) you start ripping up the old floor and the customer changes her mind. Now she wants that other floor but cannot afford.

What a selfish flooring installer you must be for not absorbing the cost for her.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> Gimme a break..selfish realtor
> 
> When you go to work are you there on a volunteer basis.? So all your time and effort so far ...free . Your expenses...free.
> 
> ...


 

A realtor is not a flooring contractor just as a flooring contractor is not a realtor. Two different jobs. 

I take it your point is that a realtor may put in a lot of time and not get a commision. What about when the first home a realtor shows a buyer the buyer makes offer and it is accepted for say $700,000. Thats $37,000 commission for both brokers. Buyer's realtor broker gets half so $18,500 and the actual realtor may get 80% of the $18,500 which is $14,800.

Not too bad for one showing. 

So should I feel sorry if my realtor did not get a commision on a home for sale by owner? Not really. Im in the market to buy a house not to have the realtor get a commision.

Note that the sign in front of a home for sale typically says, "FOR SALE",

I've never seen one that says, "BUY SO REALTOR GETS COMMISSION"


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

If your scenario was actually the way it worked we'd all be stinking rich wouldn't we. 

In fact if you think you can make almost $20,000 per hour what the heck is stopping you from getting your license.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> In fact if you think you can make almost $20,000 per hour what the heck is stopping you from getting your liscense.


I dont want to work for nothing sometimes which is the case for realtors. You have to take the good with the bad.

If you do not like the rules of the game then get another job.

Note that the sign in front of a home for sale typically says, "FOR SALE",

I've never seen one that says, "BUY SO REALTOR GETS COMMISSION"


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> I dont want to work for nothing sometimes which is the case for realtors. You have to take the good with the bad.
> 
> If you do not like the rules of the game then get another job.
> 
> ...


Wow ! You don't get to turn this around on me. I'm not that easily manipulated. Its not me doing the complaining and you need to get your misconception straightened out.

It would be extremely rare indeed for a sale to occur on the first showing, especially in the price bracket you outlined in your example.

Secondly, I will compare it to other trades because the basic's of self employment is the same everywhere.

By your own logic I've never seen a contractor ( which is what realtors are)
hang out a sign that says 
"DO YOUR RENO'S SO INSTALLER GETS PAID"

Unless and until you've been a Realtor and actually know what it is about your vote holds little value to me.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go put a key in the door and then take my large cheque to the bank


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Um, guys, I said I understood and was willing to negotiate a commission for a buyer's realtor. 
Not sure why we're fighting. 

Can't we all just get along?


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> Um, guys, I said I understood and was willing to negotiate a commission for a buyer's realtor.
> Not sure why we're fighting.
> 
> Can't we all just get along?


 Just do not let a buyer's realtor prevent a potential buyer from purchasing your home just because the realtor wants 3% or 3.5% and will not budge.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

hammerlane said:


> Just do not let a buyer's realtor prevent a potential buyer from purchasing your home just because you will not agree to 3% or 3.5%


3-3.5% is 14-17k. 

If their offer was good my mom would take it. If the offer is low she'll pass it up. 

But just asking out of curiosity, what do you mean by not letting the realtor prevent the sale? Do you mean by not accepting their terms? 
I guess it's just hard for me to imagine putting the brakes on a home their client wanted for another percentage point. Well, I guess I can imagine it but it does seem kind of unprofessional.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> By your own logic I've never seen a contractor hang out a sign that says
> "DO YOUR RENO'S SO INSTALLER GETS PAID"


You are correct nor do people hang out signs asking to have renovations done. Hello!!! Mcfly!!!!




creeper said:


> Unless and until you've been a Realtor and actually know what it is about your vote holds little value to me.


I believe my figures speak as to some knowledge of how realtors commisions are calculated by their broker. I may of had an ex at one point who may have been a realtor.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> 3-3.5% is 14-17k.
> 
> But just asking out of curiosity, what do you mean by not letting the realtor prevent the sale? Do you mean by not accepting their terms?
> .


Technically the realtor can't stop a potential buyer from making an offer but the realtor could say things to the buyer to "guide" them away from making an offer. Use your imagination to understand the meaining of "guide".


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Just don't let the realtor lock into a 90 day contract in order to make an offer. Make it a one time offer /commission for the one offer they are bringing.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> Just do not let a buyer's realtor prevent a potential buyer from purchasing your home just because the realtor wants 3% or 3.5% and will not budge.


I believe the negotiation process of the co-operating Realtor was addressed in post 6. We discussed how she should start low

Keep in mind that it is better to pay only one side of a commission and have it sold then to have to carry the property for while longer because you didn't want to co-operate. 

Whether Hammer likes it not your biggest buyer pool comes from the mls. Which is a resource created by, owned by, and paid for by Realtors.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> 3-3.5% is 14-17k.
> 
> If their offer was good my mom would take it. If the offer is low she'll pass it up.
> 
> ...


Here's the thing. If a buyer is under contract and then chooses to buy a fsbo then that buyer is still obligated by law to pay the commission to the realtor. 
As a buyer if I had to choose between a number of similar homes that were all competatively priced, Id pick the one where the seller would pay the commission and not the buyer.

Even if the buyer is not under contract if they have a sense of loyalty and fairness for the time and effort already put forth by the realtor, chances are they will not move forward on a sale that eliminates the realtor and leaves the buyer on their own to handle the legalities of the sale.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> I believe my figures speak as to some knowledge of how realtors commisions are calculated by their broker. I may of had an ex at one point who may have been a realtor.


The figures you speak of are the calculations negotiated between your ex and her broker. Please take note of the word NEGOTIATED. 

Again, by your logic, if my ex were a lawyer I wouldn't think of myself as qualified to dispense legal advice just by proximity


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

joed said:


> Just don't let the realtor lock into a 90 day contract in order to make an offer. Make it a one time offer /commission for the one offer they are bringing.


Finally. ..
This is good advice


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

hammerlane said:


> Technically the realtor can't stop a potential buyer from making an offer but the realtor could say things to the buyer to "guide" them away from making an offer. Use your imagination to understand the meaining of "guide".


According to CREA and OREA which are the governing bodies that regulate practicing realtors, here in Canada anyway, we must adhere to a mandated strict code of ethics that clearly states the tactic you outlined is unethical.

Hope you memorized all 50 pages of the legal speak when your ex wrote her exam


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

creeper said:


> The figures you speak of are the calculations negotiated between your ex and her broker. Please take note of the word NEGOTIATED.
> 
> Again, by your logic, if my ex were a lawyer I wouldn't think of myself as qualified to dispense legal advice just by proximity


Obviously you do not understand the difference between advice and practicing law.

Regardless the figures are factual for the broker that was her employer. Whether you think I am giving sound advice is immaterial. 

We live in the real world and steering a buyer away from a FSBO does happen. I dont care how many ethics books or codes of conduct one professes.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Look Babshoney...this back and forth between myself and creeper is going nowhere. Creeper believes realtors are the greatest thing since sliced bread and necessary to transfer real estate and I don't.

But everyone has to eat.

Just note that if you FSBO, any commision is negotiable with a buyer's realtor if the buyer has an agent.

Thats really all I was trying to get across.

Good luck with your sale.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Well I will say in a lot of the posts that happened very quickly I thought "aren't these folks actually agreeing and not realizing it?!"

But to lay the issue to rest: we are only doing FSBO for about three months. If it works, awesome; if it doesn't then at least we tried. My mom is extremely flexible on a lot of points and understands the most important thing is that we get the dang house sold. I am also loving the opportunity to learn and do something I have always been interested in. 

I posted in an effort to get advice and I have had awesome tips up to this point so feel free to keep them coming as I will do my best to update with our progress!


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## SeanB (Jun 21, 2012)

I personally don't think realtors are as necessary as they make themselves out to be. I have lived in 2 states now where the realtors don't really do much outside of find houses for you. And the only reason they do that is because they don't give access to the general public. 

In Arkansas I sold 2 houses as FSBO and purchased 1 house through a realtor. In all 3 events it was easy. The title companies really do all the work when it comes to the actual sale and purchase. They work with the bank to get the payment all lined out.

Now I am in North Carolina, whole different mess to deal with. Its law that a lawyer must be involved so after the purchase agreement the attorney's deal with all the paperwork. 

I understand the job of a realtor but for any above average intelligent person they can sell their own house. You even have access to place an add on the MLS through a 3rd party for a pretty small fee. But when doing that I get a feeling that some realtors do still steer their clients away from you.

My first house sale was tough, I had it listed with a realtor for 4 months with very few bites. I then dropped the listing and put a sign up, it sat there for about 2 months and then sold.

My second house sold the same day I put my sign out. No lie. I flew back into town for a week to get ready to rent it, changed my mind and put a sign up. Same day I got a call, they viewed, and made an offer. It was fate.


Babs, price it lower than market value. And be sure to point out your plans to sell it through a realtor after X date and the price will be Y. You are selling it less than that price because you don't have the fees to contend with. Folks will appreciate the honesty as well as have it in their head they are getting a better deal. $/sqft tells the story. Have comparables.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

SeanB said:


> I personally don't think realtors are as necessary as they make themselves out to be. I have lived in 2 states now where the realtors don't really do much outside of find houses for you. And the only reason they do that is because they don't give access to the general pubic
> 
> Now I am in North Carolina, whole different mess to deal with. Its law that a lawyer must be involved so after the purchase agreement the attorney's deal with all the paperwork.
> 
> ...


In Canada the role of lawyer in a RE transaction is not to be involved with the paperwork..That part of the legalities are up to the Realtors to hash out. The role of the solicitor is to verify that the buyer is getting a tittle free and clear of liens and to handle the exchange of funds, the discharge of mortgages and to settle any adjustments. The lawyer also verifys that all conditions have been fufilled. It is the Realtor who sets out which conditions are asked for and negotiated before any offer goes firm. 

If a private buyer forgets to address certain things in an offer and that offer is accepted it is too late. Your lawyer can't change it. Thats not their role

As already mentioned, the issue of the general public having access to MLS is still before the Competition Bureau. Try and see it from our point of view.

The MLS is a private website that was created by, and is still paid for by Realtors in the huge annual licensing and board fee's that we are obligated to pay. Is it fair that Joe Public can access our livilhood for a small fee.

Also there is a gross misconception of how hard it is for a Realtor to carve out a living. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and the Buyer happens to be there early in your process, but most of the time that is not the case. 

Don't be too quick to judge


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## SeanB (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh I am not judging you. Its a sales job. As with any sales job it is your job to do 2 things, sell what ever the commodity is and to make it look easy. I am not saying by any means that selling houses for a living is easy. Being good at sales is a horribly hard skill to master. That is why there are those in the housing business that fail. But those that are good at it thrive and make a fortune. I am great at sales but don't really like the shady side of things. And yes, there is a shady side to selling houses. There is 0 liability on the realtors if they sell a bad house. All that 99% of sales people care about is that the fish likes the bait they are eating. I am not saying that is how you operate, just that the market in general operates that way. True for cars, houses, flooring, etc...

One thing you pointed out is 100% true, there are different rules on who does what everywhere you go. So generalizing what someone would need to do isn't really fair. But i will stick to my guns and say that if you have a good head on your shoulders you can sell your own house. And having a good head on your shoulder means you aren't trying to ask for full market value on a FSBO. That's just unrealistic.


On a side note, a friend of ours that was a realtor would sit their customer on the computer and show them how to browse houses if they wanted to. They could surf through all of the MLS not just what the realtor wanted them to go see. If a realtor is hiding houses for any reason it really makes you wonder why. Low commission sales, fsbo, etc...


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Babshoney:

Its been a couple of weeks. Have you had any showings?


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Nope, but we still haven't put the sign out. 

This house has ten years of not being maintained that well and LOTS of people and animals in and out of its doors. It's taking considerably longer to get it all ready than we thought it would. Not too mention there are a few quite messy non-helpers living here. It's an uphill battle for me and my mom. 

But at this point my mom is pretty sick of waiting so she said we are putting it out Monday no matter what. Earlier this week I made a website and this weekend I hope to start getting pictures put on it. And today my mom took a flyer I made to hang in the doctor's lounge. 

The good news though is her friend that is also selling her house is thiiiiisssss close to being ready and they close on the new house this coming week.


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## shadytrake (Jul 8, 2012)

I have a few tips. When my mom passed away, she left the estate equally split among my brother, my sister, my aunt, and myself (excuse my grammar if incorrect). 

They agreed since I was the only one living in the same city as her home that I would take the responsibility of selling it. (I had previously helped mom with the sale and purchase of FSBO and I bought mine FSBO). 

I found a great reference book (can't remember the name-I'll try to find it) and I read it cover to cover specifically with regard to realtors, contracts, and property item disclosure.

Tip one - To avoid wasting too much time on tire kickers, do not make individual showing appointments. Schedule an open house just like a realtor would. That way, the showing is on your schedule (especially helpful for a gated community).

Two - having read the book about contracts, prepare the letter detailing your FSBO position and have copies ready to give to the buyer's realtor. In my case, we advised that the buyer would be responsible for their own realtor fees and commission. There are many ways to write it. It depends on your situation. 

Three - read up on disclosure. KNOW what you are supposed to disclose & don't assume that if they don't ask, you don't need to tell. We are a litigious society. It is better to CYA than to lose it in a lawsuit.

Four - this is optional (know disclosure before you proceed). Hire a good inspector before you list and find out any critical items that need attention. This makes negotiation easier down the road if you indicate "the house is priced accordingly factoring such and such."

Five - gather the utility bills and prepare averages for the coldest and warmest times of the year. Know how old the roof is and how many layers. Every buyer who walked through asked me this.

FSBO has worked for me both as buyer and seller. Mom's house sold in 2 months. Would have sold faster had the buyer worked out her credit stuff in advance but it all worked out in the end. 

Last tip - require a deposit just like a professional realtor. We asked for $500 but the house was only $100K. 

I'll see if I can dig up the name of that book. It was awesome and an easy read.


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## shadytrake (Jul 8, 2012)

The book I read was 100 Questions Every First-Time Home Buyer Should Ask by Ilyce R. Glink. I read it as a buyer and reversed it as a seller but I think she has specific seller books too. Her writing style was clear and the answers were concise. Good luck! Keep us posted on the progress.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

The jury is still out on the effectiveness of open houses. Personally, I rarely hold them. I feel they are for the benefit of the Realtor to pick up prospects for other sales. 
Selling the home at an open house is not unheard of.. just rare

Here's a couple of articles

http://www.crackerjackagent.com/articles/162/why-you-should-stop-doing-open-h


http://ezinearticles.com/?Do-Open-Houses-Sell-Homes?&id=435996


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## shadytrake (Jul 8, 2012)

Creeper,

Well here is how I approached it. When I got calls to show it, I advised all callers that the house would be open for showing appointments from 3-7pm on such and such dates. Basically an open appointment for all comers. Worked really well for me and pretty flexible for potential buyers as well.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

I can see the benefits to that approach. Especially since you have taken a call from a prospect (s). It would be better then just having an open house and hope some real potentials show up.

Also as mentioned somewhere in the articles, It could create more interest for the buyers because human nature is such that " if they want it then so do we"

Maybe if you are using this approach to showings it would be a good idea to tell the buyers that other interested parties have also been scheduled for this time


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

I think I may have read that book, although it was a few years ago. Back when my husband and I first started thinking about buying, I read just about every book our library had. 

The website I made isn't searchable and only reachable by direct link. Part of why I did it is so if someone calls I can ask to email it to them first. That way they can get a virtual look first and it's one more piece of info I have to contact them (getting their email address). 
Honestly I'm here every day now that I'm helping do this so as far as people coming to look the only requirement is that it doesn't interfere with my kiddo's nap time. 

I've been trying to gather up quite a bit of documentation. Some of it is pdf's on the site, and some I just have in case the info is asked for. 

I am already ready for this to be over though. It's never ending. Once this house is done there is a ton that the new house needs. Then maybe someday I'll be able to get back to all the work my house needs. 

But... When we're estimating to be done with our house it will be time to move and we'll be starting all over again.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

The sign is out!


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

BabsHoney said:


> The sign is out!


Hurray!! Best of luck !!

Now let the headaches begin, especially with that cute little guy messing up the place right before showings.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

He does make messes, that's for sure!

Today I heard him flushing the toilet and walked in to find a bowl full of a whole roll of paper and a bar of soap. Fabulous. 

And... We don't even know when or how it happened but there is a gorgeous red permanent marker drawing on the office wall. One of the rooms that didn't need painting. 

But at the same time he can work a sponge or a broom with the best of 'em. Not to mention he helps with laundry an throws trash away. 

Ok, I'll stop gushing now.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Welcome to motherhood. He's adorable. I'm guessing 27 mnths according to your description and not his photo.

Mine still don't understand the usefulness of a laundry basket. If a sock gets pulled off while watching tv, it will be flung somewhere in that room. I won't even begin to tell you how many lego and polly pocket pieces have been vacuumed up.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

He's actually 18 months. 

I work pretty hard to show him how to do everything that I am doing as well as independent play. 

Being a mom is the very best thing that could have accidentally happened to me ever!!


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

It is a lot of hard unappreciated work, but he sure looks like a happy little soul.

I think I surprised my parents as well. I'm the youngest of 5 in 7 years. Nobody plans that kind of chaos. We kids sure made alot of our own fun though.

Like the time we were jumping off the garage roof onto mattress's. I'm not sure where the mattress's came from though.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Off the roof huh? 
I don't think I spent any time on roofs until I was a teenager, haha. 

My parents also had a ton of kiddos, as for me? One is enough!


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Well my mom closed on the new house!

I think she may have lost her mind.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

So...
Here's an update!

I've gotten lots of calls, but no one has called back yet to look.  it's hard to tell from the road just how much house is here, and I think people are genuinely shocked when I tell them the price. 

The inside work is coming along nicely, actually the painters are here today and will probably be here several days. We did all the rooms ourselves, but the living areas with 22' ceilings and the ceilings themselves? Yeah we're leaving that to the professionals. 
I feel like a big part of the problem is the land itself. 20 acres and it looks like ****. needs mowed, and the landscaped areas look grown over and really it's just ugly. There is no way we could do all I it ourselves in a timely manner so I called a lawn guy to come give an estimate. Yeah, he never showed up. Grrr. So my exasperated mother called my very busy college brother to see if he knew any college boys that would be willing to make a little money this weekend. He said, "yeah, I know ten! My fraternities pledges!" Needless to say, they will be here this weekend. 

Well, that's all the info I have for now. Thanks to those of you that are following and being so helpful.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you put together a little portfolio or something you can email people?


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

I've built a website that I was planning to email but it still has very few pictures. One, I'm busy, and two, I don't want to take and post the pictures until that room is perfect. And I'm a bit of a perfectionist.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

BabsHoney said:


> I've built a website that I was planning to email but it still has very few pictures. One, I'm busy, and two, I don't want to take and post the pictures until that room is perfect. And I'm a bit of a perfectionist.


I used to be an absolute perfectionist. Years of therapy has helped.

Just don't loose contact with those asking about the place. Offering to send them something, even if not perfect, gives you an excuse to grab their email addresses in a nice way. You can send a nice, hopefully non SPAM sort of follow up when all is finished.

Not to slap you but we warned you this was going to take time and it concerns me that you are already saying you do not have it?


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh I'm aware this process takes time. I'm also aware the sign has only been up for maybe a month. 
When I say I don't have much time I am referring to the fact that we still have lots we are working on so getting pictures and updating the website is still low on my list. Lots of great pictures isn't going to do that much good if they come over to look and the house is trashed. 
Keep in mind I'm doing all of this with a 19 month old running around. Keeping him occupied while I am cleaning/doing projects is doable, sitting on a computer? Not so much.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Or send it out anyway, with a list of upgrades you are planning on doing.


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## diycoder (Sep 16, 2012)

Personally, I don't understand the point of listing the house before the fix-up work is done. Get all of the work done, and then determine a fair price for the house and list it at that. If the house is truly worth more, people will bid it up.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

diycoder said:


> Personally, I don't understand the point of listing the house before the fix-up work is done. Get all of the work done, and then determine a fair price for the house and list it at that. If the house is truly worth more, people will bid it up.


 
The point of listing before the work is complete is twofold.

The fall market is now. Everyday before the snow flies and the holidays creep closer counts. 

More importantly, there could be a serious Buyer who wants the to be in the area. If they don't know the home is available, they could settle for a different location. 

Sure its always better if the house shows well, but I'd rather see a work in progress then miss the opportunity entirely


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

Woo hoo!

The painters are finished and with the exception of a small wood trim project, most everything is done. 

I think one or two more days of deep cleaning and I can say it's done. Keeping it clean is probably another battle, but oh well. Today I am choosing to be excited. 

And honestly, I'm thinking about telling my mom to just call the realtor. That was the eventual plan the whole time and my excitement is dwindling. Maybe it's time to let the professional take over. 
Not too mention my mom is already asking for me to do things at her new house. I'm not sure I want to be stretched this thin. 

I did really want to earn the money but at this point I think just learning how to fix and do so much stuff was good enough.


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## hyunelan2 (Aug 14, 2007)

I've been away from the site and am just catching up on this thread now. I think the big downside to FSBO is lack of advertising. When I was looking for houses, before even signing a realtor or selling my last house, I used a lot of sites like Realtor.com and others that rely on MLS listings. FSBO houses wouldn't show up on those sites. While there are some sites that you can list your FSBO house, they aren't nearly as popular or as friendly to use. For someone serious about FSBOing their home, advertising beyond "people driving by and seeing the for-sale sign" should probably be a very large portion of the work.


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## diycoder (Sep 16, 2012)

hyunelan2 said:


> I think the big downside to FSBO is lack of advertising. When I was looking for houses, before even signing a realtor or selling my last house, I used a lot of sites like Realtor.com and others that rely on MLS listings. FSBO houses wouldn't show up on those sites.


If you're going to FSBO, you need to have an MLS listing. That's the key. If you do, then your listing will show up on any site that shows MLS listings. I found my current house on MLS that was a FSBO.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Come on don't give up yet. You need to let the Realtors know. They have a buyer pool. I know you are busy, but think about seeting aside an afternoon to email the Realtors to let them know what you've got. Even if its just the most popular ones, as they probably have the most buyers

Every time you see an open house in your general area, make sure you take advantage of the other persons advertising by having one too. It gives the buyer a chance to have a direct comparison and see how much superior your place is


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Must disagree with you Jan. I think the poor girl is in over her head and just does not have time for open houses, the advertising, and especially the follow up. I would get on with listing it with a broker or, as mentioned, the thing will soon sit all winter which just doesn't look good come spring.


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## silver_flash (Sep 28, 2012)

I'm not your dad, but that is just asking for trouble. I know a guy that sold his house without a realtor and the buyer didn't have a realtor and they paid a lawyer to finalize the sale. that was 13 years ago and their still dealing with bull **** discrepancies between the buyer and seller.


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## silver_flash (Sep 28, 2012)

my realtor defiantly did not earn every penny she charged. if you want some of the commission ask a realtor friend to refer you to a realtor and ask if you can have his finders fee. you would have to be good friends but it's worth it.


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## BabsHoney (Jul 25, 2012)

This thread was mentioned to me elsewhere so I know it's time for an update 

So... I was feeling pretty discouraged about the selling of the house nonsense. But you guys said some stuff and blah and blah and I thought, ok, really try for another month. Really, really try. You can do this girl!

Nah, I was lying to myself. My mom must have sensed that my energy for this project was near it's end and Sunday she very gently informed me she called the realtor and someone was coming Wednesday.

Thank G-d!

I wanted to help and I enjoyed helping so far, but now that the hands-on stuff is done I really don't want to deal with it anymore! I'm ready to get back to work on my own house!!

So, I won't be getting the nice little chunk of change  
But she did mention that she was going to throw something my way for all my work and help. (Specifically mentioned a particularly frustrating school loan) so I'm a happy camper all around. 

Thanks everybody for helping and participating and advising!!


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