# congoleum acrylic grout/Duraceramic



## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

I just got a Duracermic floor installed and they used an acrylic grout. I like the way the floor looks but the contractors I hired did a terrible job. They had to regrout the entire floor. They left a grout film which they told me would come up after a few washings. I didn't believe them so I contacted Congoleum myself and sure enough they were supposed to wipe up the "film" with a solution of ammonia and water. It has been on there for a month and now I am going to have to get it up myself witha nylon sponge and ammonia and pray it comes up. 
this is kinda of a new product and I haven't been able to find many people chatting about it. Does anyone else have this type of floor. Any suggestions? advice?
Thanks


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## coinbuff (May 21, 2007)

*Recent Duraceramic Installation*

Hi. I just finished installing approx 200 sf of Duraceramic in our kitchen...with grout. I grouted small sections and cleaned off the excess grout also using a nylon scrubber (3M doodlebug). It was a real pain, but the floor looks great. I just posted a request for the brand name of an acrylic grout sealant. Do you know what was used on your grout? Have you sealed it yet? Thanks.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

I called congoleum to ask about a sealer and they insisted one wasn't needed. since the grout is synthetic it isn't like your typical grout that you use with ceramic tile. I have to tell you that I have had great luck so far with getting stains up from the grout and I have two kids that are 2 & 4 years old. I even got crayon up (and didn't use a sealer). The only thing I can't get up is a sharpie marker stain but using a sealer wouldn't have helped anyway. The grout really does clean up nicely, it is a real plus for this floor. Hope this helps. Any other questions just ask! Christina


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

if installed properly it is a great floor. It also can be used without the grout.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

you are right the floor does look nice and not as cold/hard as ceramic.
i hired a contractor to do the floor (I thought I was treating myself and my husband since we are normally DIYourselfers) and what a mistake. They did a horrible job on the whole project and the worst on the grout. Ugh. I won't ever hire someone to do a project again!


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

> Ugh. I won't ever hire someone to do a project again!


at least not THAT person.


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## coinbuff (May 21, 2007)

*Cmanley...*

Thanks for the info about not needing the grout sealer.


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## jerryb48 (Nov 12, 2007)

*Grout film*

The grout film isn't very hard to remove. An installer who has not installed the product or has not had training that Congoleum offers free of charge at local venues, would not know to completely wipe the film clean. I went with the duraceramic in my kitchen, the installer did not know and I was not there. Fortunately, I am a Congoleum dealer and new what to do. Instead of pure ammonia, I used Windex and a nylon sponge pad by DuPont. It came off very easily and looks great and feels great.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi. I just got your post about using windex. I used a solution of amonia and water and that worked as well. I have since gotten the film up it was just a pain to do myself. 

I do have another question for you since you are a dealer. The guy that installed my floor told me I didn't have to put down a sub floor, so he laid it over my old vinyl floor. The grout is cracking all over the place and I am guessing it is from not using a sub floor. What do yo think? Is there anything I can do to "fix" this problem? The tiles are not lose and I am probably the only one who has noticed the problem, but it is disappointing since I just put it down a year ago. It just makes me wonder how long this floor is going to last. Thanks for your help.
Christina


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## jerryb48 (Nov 12, 2007)

*Cracking Grout*

Typically the reason for cracked grout is that they removed too much when finishing. (Not enough grout). I will have to ask my congoleum rep if you can just add more or if it has to be regrouted. The floor is a great floor and most of the problems have to do with grouted installations. As soon as I have the answer, I will post it. FYI, I am Congoleum's largest dealer in the nation and if it were an inferior product, I would have certainly heard about it by now.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

Other than the contractor that I hired to install the floor (and the cracking which I blame on the contractor) I am happy with the floor. It cleans up easily and is easier on the feet than ceramic tile. So you don't believe the subfloor has anything to do with the cracking? I know after they applied the first layer of grout it has a ton of "pin holes" in it that looked terrible. Another lady on this site complained of the same problem. I asked them to regrout and they did and then it looked fine until it started to crack.
Let me know what you find out and thanks a bunch for your help!


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## SM1996 (Dec 31, 2007)

Jerry,

Am curious about the grout cracking, as I have a similar problem. My flooring contractor has attempted to skimcoat a new layer of grout on top of the cracked grout twice. The new grout either flakes off or the grout cracks right through the new layer. None of the flooring tiles are loose, nor is it a problem with subflooring as it was laid on three different surfaces (subflooring installed by the contractor, steps, and concrete pad). Was told that it was probably due to too much water used during the grout installation. Although, I was told that the grout never cracks! The flooring contractor removed a small section of the grout around a tile--instead of being flexible as it should be, it was hard as a rock. The cracks have resurfaced once again.

As you are a Congoleum dealer, am curious as to what the correct procedure is to fix a grout cracking problem. Should the old grout be removed and new grout installed instead of this skimcoat business?

I love the floor, but am growing tired of the cracking grout situation.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

*Would also love to know*

Hi! I had written to Jerry back in November and then was unable to contact him again (something weird happened to my DIY account). I am so glad you copied me in on this email to Jerry. I haven't done anything to fix the grout problem because I am really not sure what to do. None of my tiles are loose either and I didn't call my contractor. He was a terrible contractor and I didn't call for references which is my own fault. One lesson learned ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS call for references when doing home repairs or improvements. 
Anyway, if Jerry doesn't respond to me please forward his response to me as I was waiting to hear what he had to say about the cracking grout. 
Thanks!!
Christina


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## haneyhance (Feb 16, 2008)

*duraceramic sealer problem*

We installed our kitchen floor and love the tiles, but we butted up the tiles and used the special sealer they recommended and it picks up dirt and stains and looks horrible. I have tried everything to remove the stains in the sealer and nothing works--even bleach or a toothbrush with stain remover. Please let me know if anyone else has this problem and if we have to remove all the sealer and start over?


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

hi. i didn't use any sealer because i had the tiles grouted (and I called Congoleum and they said no sealer was needed for the grout). the great thing i can say about the floor and the grout is they both clean up great. i have little kids and they are always spilling things. the acrylic grout doesn't stain like regular grout so I don't have to worry about cleaning up spills right away. The only thing I can't get out of the grout is marker.


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## haneyhance (Feb 16, 2008)

Did you butt up your tiles or leave the grout space?


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

i left space for grout.


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## MD_Tile (Mar 30, 2008)

First of all, you shouldn't be the one cleaning the grout off your floor. Call the contractor and tell him to get his ass back there and clean your floor. If he doesn't come back and clean it to your satiafaction, Tell him to refund your money. If you dont get your money, then take him to court. Anytime someone lets a contractor get away with that sort of crap, it allows the contractor to continue screwing people with lousy work. If you take him to court, you will probably get awarded more than enough money to correct your problems and it might convince the contractor to do better work in the future.
Otherwise, there are grout haze removers you can get at lowes or home depot that might work. whatever you get, id try it in a closet or behind a stove or refrigerator first or call the manufacturer and see what they reccomend is usually your best bet.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

i called the contractor back several times to fix other gross mistakes. i even asked him about the haze and he said it would come off after a few washings...a total lie. The guy lied to me about everything. He was horrible. I learned a lot of valuable lessons from this experience. If I ever contract something out again I will get a list of references and I won't be in such a hurry to get the work done. Looking back, I rushed the decision and a new floor isn't worth rushing for. I did call the manufacturer and they recommened a mixture of amonia and water with a 3M sponge and the haze came up pretty easliy. I just had big area to do and it took me a couple of days to get it all done. I considered taking him to court after the grout started to crack but I just ran out of steam. I had to let it go although you are right the guy is out there screwing people left and right. I probaby should have demanded my money back or threatened him with court. He sucked and he lied. I know all contractors are not like that and next time I will get several references before I hire someone to do work in my home. 
Thanks for your post.


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## orange (Feb 19, 2008)

cmanley said:


> i called the contractor back several times to fix other gross mistakes. i even asked him about the haze and he said it would come off after a few washings...a total lie. The guy lied to me about everything. He was horrible. I learned a lot of valuable lessons from this experience. If I ever contract something out again I will get a list of references and I won't be in such a hurry to get the work done. Looking back, I rushed the decision and a new floor isn't worth rushing for. I did call the manufacturer and they recommened a mixture of amonia and water with a 3M sponge and the haze came up pretty easliy. I just had big area to do and it took me a couple of days to get it all done. I considered taking him to court after the grout started to crack but I just ran out of steam. I had to let it go although you are right the guy is out there screwing people left and right. I probaby should have demanded my money back or threatened him with court. He sucked and he lied. I know all contractors are not like that and next time I will get several references before I hire someone to do work in my home.
> Thanks for your post.


I've been looking for info on Dura Ceramic and found posts by you and others. I note that you just posted today, but you had work done quite a while ago.

Have you personally had the cracking grout problems that I have seen mentioned? Would you do the Dura Ceramic again?
I sent an email to Congoleum indicating an interest in the product, and that I had seen many negative issues with grout and this product. I got a quick answer back but there was no mention of grouting issues, nor changes to formulation because of cracks and chips.
As I said I got a quick response directing me to their website.

I'm interested in your views.
Thanks.


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

I think my cracking grout MIGHT be because my contractor told me I DID NOT need a subfloor so he laid it right over my exhisting sheet vinyl but I can't say for for sure. I have seen other people with ceramic tile and their grout has cracked. That is somthing you would want to discuss with your flooring person or other professional. I have talked to people who have issues with actually installing the grout in that is smears easily. I think you have to be very carefuly when installing the grout. The guys that did mine got all kinds of bursh marks in it etc that I made them come back and fix. 

The grout does clean up very easily because it is acrylic that is one thing I love because i have little kids and a very messy husband and a dog. The floor also looks nice and is easy to clean. 

I do not like the hollowness of the floor when you walk on it with high heel shoes. I have heard that laminate floors also sound hollow and I don't think that has anything to do with the sub floor. The tiles are hollow so you get a hollow sound. 
If I could do it over I would go with a quality piece of sheet vinyl that LOOKS like ceramic tile. I got the floor for ease of cleaning and I think i general sheet vinyl is easier to take care of. The floor does chip if you drop something very very hard on it (of course sheet vinyle rips) and at least with this floor you can replace one tile. I don't like the hardness of the ceramic tile and that is why I went with this dura ceramic. I also wanted grout that was easier to clean. I think if you get a quality contractor or do the work yourself you will be happy with this floor but if you are looking for the look of ceramic without the price of ceramic is isn't it. The floor looks nice but it is not the same quality as ceramic. 
You don't get a hollow sound when you walk on ceramic and you get that with this floor. I also highly recommend the additional cost and aggravation and get the subfloor no matter what route you go. 
Above all get references from your contractor!! 
Please ask me any other questions you might have.


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## orange (Feb 19, 2008)

cmanley said:


> I think my cracking grout MIGHT be because my contractor told me I DID NOT need a subfloor so he laid it right over my exhisting sheet vinyl but I can't say for for sure. I have seen other people with ceramic tile and their grout has cracked. That is somthing you would want to discuss with your flooring person or other professional. I have talked to people who have issues with actually installing the grout in that is smears easily. I think you have to be very carefuly when installing the grout. The guys that did mine got all kinds of bursh marks in it etc that I made them come back and fix.
> 
> The grout does clean up very easily because it is acrylic that is one thing I love because i have little kids and a very messy husband and a dog. The floor also looks nice and is easy to clean.
> 
> ...


Thanks for responding so quickly. I think I'm again convinced to do the real ceramic thing. We just went to a flooring place today to get some prices on ceramic and hardwood -- and the salesman quickly showed us the Dura Ceramic. It looked almost too good to be true. I did some checking on the internet, and this DIY forum and google. Your posts and some related posts were great. So, I've come full circle; but I feel more educated than I did only 4 hours ago.

As for the hollow sound in the floor, I saw a demo at a flooring store. They had 2 pieces of laminate on a wood substrate. One had conventional "plasticky" foam underlay; the other had a denser rubber sheet. They had a golf ball on a string that you could drop onto the samples. The "plasticky" one was very hollow, the rubber pad was solid. I think a lot of the hollowness is due to the existing sheet vinyl and its backing.

Funny how much there is to learn.

Thanks.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Dura Ceramic offers a greater profit potential for the store than the real ceramic does. Notice that Dura Ceramic installed costs just about the same as real ceramic tile without anywhere near the functionality or life expectancy.

I just quit doing installs for a store back in January that was trying to convert every ceramic customer that came in the store to Dura Ceramic. It doesn't look or feel or sound or handle or wear or live like real ceramic tile. And for basically the same cost.


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## patterfly (Mar 31, 2008)

haneyhance said:


> We installed our kitchen floor and love the tiles, but we butted up the tiles and used the special sealer they recommended and it picks up dirt and stains and looks horrible. I have tried everything to remove the stains in the sealer and nothing works--even bleach or a toothbrush with stain remover. Please let me know if anyone else has this problem and if we have to remove all the sealer and start over?


We had our floor installed 2004. I love the floor, no grout but anything that falls on the floor......the vinyl tears. Any comments,suggestions on repairing?


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## JR9999 (Apr 12, 2008)

*Congoleum Duraceramic - Poor Choice*

We have a Duraceramic floor in our Kitchen and Bathroom. Initially we liked it since it looked great. Now that we have had it for over a year, it is the worst floor we ever owned! It gets dirty fast, it chipped in a number of places, it scratched easily and we cannot wait to get it removed. The floor is 3.5 years old and looks 20 years old! I did not know it was a "distressed" floor.


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## Barneyfife (May 1, 2008)

*No problems so far*

I installed Duraceramic tiles as a DIY project in a high traffic kitchen. The flooring store rep gave me detailed instructions regarding installation and I encountered no problems. We used the premixed grout and haven't bothered to seal it--we were assured that it wasn't necessary and it hasn't been. A damp mop with warm water gets the dirt up of the tiles.

We went with these tiles because we have an older house with floors that have some 'give' in them. These tiles and even the grout have some flex in them so I thought that would minimize cracking. I screwed down 1/4" plywood sheets over a pineboard floor. Then I used thinset mortar to fill screw holes and seams. The tile adhesive went on after that. 

So far, we've had no issues with it.


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## Changeling (Apr 28, 2008)

I have been contemplating getting the Dura Ceramic floor also. It appears that everyone who is having trouble can be found to have had a lousy installer. Installers will try and tell you it is just like installing real ceramic when it absolutely is not.

Look on the contractor side of this forum and read what the contractors have to say.

Everyone talks about having trouble with the grout. a Congoleum Factory representative addresses this issue on a forum called FCI message Board. They were talking about a bathroom being done, but bathroom or kitchen, they are both done the same. As usual just about every professional had been doing it wrong, that's why you hear so much talk about grout problems. Don't believe me, read the article for yourself.

I personally haven't made up my mind yet, I want to look at a product called "Knight tile" first and see if it sounds like a better product. It looks really good but they use a litttle thin strip of colored vinyl (your color choice) for the grout look, I wonder about this, but absolutely don't know if it's OK or not.


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## Barneyfife (May 1, 2008)

I'm wondering if these people followed the installation instructions. Contractors are notorious for their belief that "they know better". Congoleum even provides its own adhesive (much like contact cement), their own very shallow notched trowel to insure the correct amount of adhesive is laid down, their own pre-mixed grout, etc. The grout should also be applied using a hard (green colored) rubber float to really force it down between the tiles. An ordinary groat float is too soft.

Hope this helps.


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## Changeling (Apr 28, 2008)

Barneyfife said:


> I'm wondering if these people followed the installation instructions. Contractors are notorious for their belief that "they know better". Congoleum even provides its own adhesive (much like contact cement), their own very shallow notched trowel to insure the correct amount of adhesive is laid down, their own pre-mixed grout, etc. The grout should also be applied using a hard (green colored) rubber float to really force it down between the tiles. An ordinary groat float is too soft.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 They also provide seminars and complete written directions but of course some professionals don't need advice from the factory/manufacturer on new products that call for completely different ways of installing there product they just know by instinct, it's the manufacturer who doesn't know anything.
However it raises another little problem, if not done to manufacturer specifications and installation instructions, and you have a claim for "any reason" you are absolutely dead in the water, warranty's go right into the trash.
If you are contemplating the installation of this product ( Dura Ceramic) whether you are a professional, diy guy, or just someone looking for a contractor, like me, I would strongly suggest contacting the factory for complete installation instructions, learn them and then start the project. This way you will be able to know when someone is feeding you a line of BS about something they know nothing about!
Reading the post on the FCI message board (from the factory rep) should be the first place you start, it will explain why a lot of the posts you read about it being a bad product is traceable to a complete lack of knowledge on installing the product correctly, but I doubt if a lot of people will take the time to read it, after all it would take up 5 minutes of there valuable time!


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## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

Sounds just like the advice I offered in your other thread about DuraCeramic:

_"Good luck with your decision and whatever you decide, make sure you use the proper installer to make sure your new floor is installed correctly!"_


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Changeling,

I am going to have to take issue with your comments but I will also forgive you at the same time because I realize you are one of ignorance.



> They also provide seminars and complete written directions but of course some professionals don't need advice from the factory/manufacturer on new products that call for completely different ways of installing there product they just know by instinct, it's the manufacturer who doesn't know anything.


I know scores of professionals locally, and hundreds of professionals on these boards. Every one of them seeks out manufacturers specifications for the installation of all products. That's what we do. That's what makes us pros. We constantly attend seminars and learning expositions. We are repeatedly into manufacturer's websites verifying installation changes and information that comes down the pike. We are practicing our trade every day of the week. We repeatedly tell DIY's to "Follow the manufacturers recommendations". The only thing that is left to instinct is the repetitive nature of this business after learning from the manufacturer. Manufacturers make great efforts to see to it that their products and ways are available to all of us. This very day there are probably no less than 10,000 of us in Orlando Florida at a trade show for flooring materials.

When I attempted to answer your questions about DuraCeramic on another thread you asked me to stop replying to your questions because some of my comments about Duraceramic were more negative than what you wanted to hear. You wanted the truth you got it from me. I didn't make that crap up, I was reporting my experiences first hand.

The guys over at the FCI Board are also professionals and no different than anyone anywhere else on these boards. You are just simply too full of yourself to see we are all the same pros and some use different handles on different boards.

Your above statement above about pros is a paragraph of words from a uninformed-observer I'm afraid. You come here for FREE advice and then you badmouth those that are trying to help you. 

There is one other possibility however. And that is that YOU are the Manufacturers Rep trying stimulate some Google spiders on behalf of Congoleum.

Which is it?

Factory Rep or Ignorant Consumer?

Doesn't really matter.
You are as wrong as you can be my friend.


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## Changeling (Apr 28, 2008)

I told you NOT to answer any of my posts. I am not interested in anything you have to say, you go from web site to web site and "Parot" what someone else says.
I read your first sentence, take issue with me, you idiot, take issue with yourself and do NOT answer anything I say, GET IT !. If you have so much experience go get a job and quit bothering me !:furious:


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

If you aren't interested in anything I have to say then why not just simply tune me out, skip over my posts, don't read them, act as if I wasn't here.

I'm not following you around, don't pleasure yourself with that idea. I'm here every day and have been for years. It is you that is the late comer and comes to slam and criticize.

Your inquiry has been answered numerous times and you don't seem to be able to get it through your thick head. I could teach you a thing or two if only you weren't so belligerent and would listen but that ain't likely to happen. Is it?

Sorry I get under your skin so deeply, actually this is fun I enjoy dealing with people such as yourself. OK, I'm finished for now, I think I'll go have a cracker.



XOXOXOXOXO:thumbup:


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## Barneyfife (May 1, 2008)

I bet you guys won't be exchanging Christmas cards.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Yow no kiddin'.


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## [email protected] (May 5, 2008)

No sealer needed on congoleum grout for dura ceramic. in fact if you need to replace. use a hairdryer and the grout will shrink and you can pull it out like a gummy worm. Then use new congoleum grout. That simple.


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## dhwheatl (Jun 7, 2008)

I want to take the carpet out of my basement. I saw this dura ceramic in a store and thought it sounded like a good idea. Now after reading some of these posts, I'm not sure I want it. It will cost me over 6000.00 to have this installed but I want it to last a long time. Any other suggestions as to what I could put down beside carpet. We have a pool table and my son uses the basement for playing video games. We also have several pets so that's why I'm getting rid of the carpet!


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

You could have "real ceramic tile" in a basement application for the same cost as the DuraCeramic. I'm talkin' total overall installed cost.


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## FStacy (Jun 22, 2009)

I purchased duraceramic for our kitchen/dining room area. We have a large family; this is the most used room in our house. I made this clear to the salesperson. He pointed me in the direction of the duraceramic product. It had it's first chip in less than one month after install. It has continued to chip, ding, and wear off around the corners of the tiles. How disappointing! We thought we were purchasing a very durable product. Mohawk's warranty is worthless.
What can we do?


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't think there is anything you can do except the replace the individual tiles. I have had some chipping but because my kids have dropped stuff on the floor that would have dinged any floor. I haven't had that many issues with the floor since the grout cracked a few months after I had the floor installed. Overall, I am not crazy about the floor. I wish I had gone with something else. I will keep this floor until my kids grow up and then have it replaced with something else. Maybe that is how you can look at. Replace the tiles that are in bad shape but plan on keeping it until your kids grow up and then you will have to "bite the bullet" so to speak and have it all replaced. That is what I will have to do. I learned a great lesson through all it it that is for sure


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## FStacy (Jun 22, 2009)

So what will be your next choice?
We still have the duracermic product in boxes waiting to be installed in four bathrooms and the laundry room. We are in a quandry. Do we let the business that sold us the product do the remaining portion of the installation? Because they say that if they had done our installation in the kitchen/dining room then the warranty would be their issue to settle. (promises...promises)
Or do we cut our losses and start with new product to begin with. For the remaining rooms. It will be about a $3000 loss, but the potential headaches will be also.
So what would be your next choice?


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## cmanley (Nov 28, 2006)

I think my next choice for bathrooms and a laundry room would be high quality sheet vinyl (which is what I wanted before I bought the tile). But you know there are issues with that too. If a piece tears or is ripped you can't really fix it. I love wood but that isn't really practical for bathrooms and laundry rooms. You could go with regular tile but that is hard on the feet. I talked to a guy in a flooring store once who told me two things I will never forget "There are no flooring emergencies so take your time" and "there is no perfect flooring" If you already bought the tile and the contractor is telling you they will follow up on the warranty maybe you should put it down and keep it for the next 10 years or so. You might hate it in 10 years anyway and want something new?


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## shauglan (Mar 3, 2017)

*Re: congoleum acrylic grout/Duraceramic/Subflooring needed?*

I installed DuraCeramic vinyl planks with grout lines in a small bathroom. I had existing ceramic tile with thin grout lines to start with. Because my existing floor wasn't flat, I used a self - leveling agent. I caulked around toilet hole, vent and wall edges as self leveler will find the lowest spot. Buy self leveling powder from Home Depot and mix enough water so it's the consistency of pancake batter. Will need to dry overnight.

The overall install was great. Time consuming but not hard. I love the product. I did not seal the floor or grout lines. I did have an air bubble in one area of grout so I scraped it out and refilled it. That was a week ago and it looks great.

To answer your ? whether or not to add subflooring... First consider how much that will raise the floor. (impact trim, door closing, etc?) My next bathroom I'm ripping out the old ceramic tile and laying a new subfloor, only because it's already at max height. I would talk to another Congoleum rep for a second opinion and maybe show pics of how bad the existing floor is/isn't.

Good luck.

Sara


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