# Zoning issue with planned shed



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

They can double charge you for a permit and make you tare it down or move it.
Also any future permits you ask for would be gone over with a fine tooth comb, if they would even give you one.
And yes the guy next door may also get a certified letter in the mail.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

You are asking a series of legal questions, and this is a DIY forum, so the best you can hope to get are a bunch of uninformed answers. What are you possibly going to do with any answers you get on this forum? Rely on them? Validate your opinion? This might be an amusing thread to discuss war stories on, but you already know the answer, constructing without a permit, in direct contravention to the regulations in place, is just not a good plan.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the responses... I'm not looking for legal advice, I'm looking for comments from people who have experience with this sort of issue and what was required in those instances, and maybe some ideas for alternatives to my problem, if there are any.


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

Ten feet does seem excessive. In my jurisdiction the setback is 5 feet for the side yard (and 200 sq. ft. min. for a building permit). Having said that, building without a permit is not an option for you because you will need a separate electrical inspection if you are going to run a line out there. I think you have two options: 1- rethink your shed in such a way that the 10 foot setback becomes part of the design - whether that means using that space for storage, or fill it with a small patio, or attractive landscape plantings, or something else, is up to you. 2- Ask at the permitting office if there are other avenues beyond the steep variance fees. There is a widely held perception that the permitting process exists only to make life difficult. Before starting a major project at my house I was advised by everyone to not get a permit because of all the problems and headaches that would invite. I decided to get a permit anyways and found the office people and the inspectors to be very helpful. The permit was cheap but it paid for an on-site consultant. Maybe your building department will be able to find you a cost effective solution.


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

In my jurisdiction it's 10 feet side and back.

If you built it the way they build portable buildings, then you could (purely in theory) move it after any inspection...

Regarding the size -- just a note if you haven't considered it -- you can't rip an 8 foot board on a table saw in a 16 foot building. Unless the saw is near the door, I guess, and you feed the board out the door.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Windows said:


> Ten feet does seem excessive. In my jurisdiction the setback is 5 feet for the side yard (and 200 sq. ft. min. for a building permit). Having said that, building without a permit is not an option for you because you will need a separate electrical inspection if you are going to run a line out there. I think you have two options: 1- rethink your shed in such a way that the 10 foot setback becomes part of the design - whether that means using that space for storage, or fill it with a small patio, or attractive landscape plantings, or something else, is up to you. 2- Ask at the permitting office if there are other avenues beyond the steep variance fees. There is a widely held perception that the permitting process exists only to make life difficult. Before starting a major project at my house I was advised by everyone to not get a permit because of all the problems and headaches that would invite. I decided to get a permit anyways and found the office people and the inspectors to be very helpful. The permit was cheap but it paid for an on-site consultant. Maybe your building department will be able to find you a cost effective solution.


Thanks for the response... I agree that a permit is not always a bad thing... when I built a 16x32 deck on my old house I obtained a permit, submitted plans and went through the inspection process. It was really easy and it was nice to have someone with more knowledge than me review each step of the process and give their blessing. The only thing I failed on was the railing at the final inspection. It was supposed to return and I had opened at the ends. The inspector even left a note after the last inspection saying what a nice job I had done. 

My problem here is there doesn't seem to be a legitimate way around the sideyard setback issue that won't cost $750+. I agree that a 5' setback would be fine, but 10 is just ridiculous, IMO. 

I'm going to measure it out tonight when I get home and see if I can make it work. Thanks again.

Kevin


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

pyper said:


> In my jurisdiction it's 10 feet side and back.
> 
> If you built it the way they build portable buildings, then you could (purely in theory) move it after any inspection...
> 
> Regarding the size -- just a note if you haven't considered it -- you can't rip an 8 foot board on a table saw in a 16 foot building. Unless the saw is near the door, I guess, and you feed the board out the door.


That's actaully not a bad idea, but I guess it would depend on how much it would cost to move it. Regarding the size, that's a good point, but my plan is to put double doors on the end facing my house, which would allow me to work with bigger pieces of wood. 

Kevin


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

In my location (western Ny) the min setback for anything over 100SF is 8'. My neighbor was having a shed built and the guy that borders the back of our property had a fit with hw close it was and called the village. The work was stopped and the shed had to be moved forward a total of 3' to meet the setback rules. This required the removal and re-pouring of the concrete slab. I was away on vacation or I would have interviened on his behalf. In my town if it can be "proved" that the building can be moved in a 24 hour period then a varience can be granted for no charge to allow the shed to be closer to the line. If, however, the building has any utilities running to it then it is considered a non-movable structure. I found this out when I wanted to move my 12 x 16 garden shed to the back of the property. My proof was the fact that I was able to move it in about 6 hours to the new location. You would have to check with your AHJ and see if they have any clause like that.


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

danpik said:


> In my location (western Ny) the min setback for anything over 100SF is 8'. My neighbor was having a shed built and the guy that borders the back of our property had a fit with hw close it was and called the village. The work was stopped and the shed had to be moved forward a total of 3' to meet the setback rules. This required the removal and re-pouring of the concrete slab. I was away on vacation or I would have interviened on his behalf. In my town if it can be "proved" that the building can be moved in a 24 hour period then a varience can be granted for no charge to allow the shed to be closer to the line. If, however, the building has any utilities running to it then it is considered a non-movable structure. I found this out when I wanted to move my 12 x 16 garden shed to the back of the property. My proof was the fact that I was able to move it in about 6 hours to the new location. You would have to check with your AHJ and see if they have any clause like that.


 
Thanks... I actually just called the township and confirmed the amount required for a variance application ($750). Then I told the secretary my situation and asked if there was any other way around the $750.00 fee (THIS IS ONLY A SHED FOR GOD-SAKES!). She said no. 

Looks like I either comply and get a permit, or risk it and see what happens. I just think it is going to look completely ridiculous to have the shed sitting 10 feet off the side fence, and I don't think I should have to pay $750.00 to convince a zoning board that I am right. I hate all these damn regulations we have to deal with today. 

Kevin


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

I would build the shed with the 10' setback and get it inspected. Then after the inspection build a lean-to roof on the setback side of the shed for some covered storage. If the city comes and sees the lean-to encroaching on the setback rules you can claim ignorance and just have to remove the lean-to. I doubt this would ever happen but at least your shed would be safe, and you would gain some usable covered storage, for some items that can be stored outside, and gain some usable space they would have taken up inside the shed.


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## danpik (Sep 11, 2011)

I don't know how it works in your area, in mine, the varience is pretty easy. You have to apply for it as usuall. After the application is approved you have to send out letters to all property owners within 500' of your property. They then have a time frame to reply (most don't). If anyone has an issue they have to prove harm would be caused if the varience is approved. They simply can not object because they don't like the project. Once all concersn are heard and addressed the varience is approved. I would think the process is similar in your area. The only time variences around here don't go thru is if the fire marshal gets involved due to an access concern. A shed at the back of the property should not cause this


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

danpik said:


> I don't know how it works in your area, in mine, the varience is pretty easy. You have to apply for it as usuall. After the application is approved you have to send out letters to all property owners within 500' of your property. They then have a time frame to reply (most don't). If anyone has an issue they have to prove harm would be caused if the varience is approved. They simply can not object because they don't like the project. Once all concersn are heard and addressed the varience is approved. I would think the process is similar in your area. The only time variences around here don't go thru is if the fire marshal gets involved due to an access concern. A shed at the back of the property should not cause this


Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes here too... I'm not really that concerned about it being denied because any one with half of a brain who looks at the layout of my property and the placement of the shed would realize that putting it up against the fence will make more sense and look 100 times better. My concern is the cost of getting it approved. As I said, the fee is $250.00 and you need a $500.00 escrow for "professional fees." Also, like you said, you have to mail notice to everyone within 200' of your property line via certified mail. That alone could cost several hundred dollars. This process is very frustrating. There should be some sort of expidited (and cheaper) process when you're just trying to place a freaking shed!


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... I've got a couple of skinny riverfront lots, 'n ran into this same problem,...

After talkin' to a Bud, who's on a zoning board in a different town, I found a usable loophole in the NYS buildin' code,...
Portable storage sheds, without a foundation, up to 144sq.ft., are exempt from the zoning codes...
In other words, No set-back required...
So,......
I put 1 on the south lot, 'n another backed right up tight to the back of that 1, on the north lot...
The lot line, 'n 2 walls separate 'em...

You could do the same in yer case, by building 2 twin sheds, back to back, or side to side, on yer lot line, with double doors between 'em...
So long as you can fit yer hand Between the sheds, they're 2 separate storage sheds, 'n ya get to keep 'em, 'n still be "In Code"...


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## Ler0y Jenkins (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the response... After reviewing some of the comments here, I thought of the following idea:

I could build my 10x16 or 12x16 shed along the back property line, right up against my fence, and 10' off the side property line. The space in between the shed and the fence could be another smaller shed, designed to look like an attached garage, but would be without a foundation and not connected to the shed. Sort of like this:










I could build the shed with the proper permits, and then after I was done and got approval, I could build the attached garage portion. That way, I could use the shed as a workshop, and the garage portion to store lawn equipement and pool supplies. 

I just need to check the size of the area to see if I have enough space for something like that. Thanks for all the comments. 

Kevin


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Every city, township, village, or whatever, has their rules. Some enforce them, some don't. Around here, most of the cities do enforce their rules. I saw a 2 car freestanding garage (new) have to be torn down because it wasn't allowed and the guy built it anyway. I once moved a 20' x 20' garage, over 3' because it was too close to the property line. I didn't build it, just got paid to move it. It cost the original contractor's bonding company just a few bucks under $10,000, my fee.
So, it's up to you whether or not you want to buck the city. I don't see where the 10' is a deal breaker. Plant a garden if you don't want to get in a jam, store your wood pile there, you get the idea. All I can say is if you have to fight city hall on something like this, you will usually lose. Not worth the aggravation in my opinion.
Mike Hawkins


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