# roses question



## GardenConcepts (Jan 21, 2010)

If the Flower Carpet Roses are struggling, the Knockouts won't do any better. You do realize that the Flower Carpet Rose is considered a groundcover Rose?


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

As we say down here in the south, "Bless your heart!" You will not get anything to grow under the trees satisfactorily. I will try to make some pics and post them to show exactly how much of a fight you have there.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

here is how they looked after winter and now at Spring.

https://picasaweb.google.com/pewaukeedp/FlowerCarpetRoses?authkey=Gv1sRgCI2Nj_z_zqXMqAE#


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Here is the difference being under trees makes for roses- and others also.
All were planted three years ago, at the same time, the same size (3 gal).


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> Here is the difference being under trees makes for roses- and others also.
> All were planted three years ago, at the same time, the same size (3 gal).


Wow are those flower carpet roses like mine?

What other type of plant should I place there because it's a space that would have about 7 ft long by 2 ft wide space uncovered?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

dinosaur1 said:


> Wow are those flower carpet roses like mine?
> 
> What other type of plant should I place there because it's a space that would have about 7 ft long by 2 ft wide space uncovered?


Is it truly 'under' the tree? What kind of tree (it matters)? Full shade? Morning/afternoon sun?


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

Leah Frances said:


> Is it truly 'under' the tree? What kind of tree (it matters)? Full shade? Morning/afternoon sun?


They are 3-5 feet away from a tree. We even have hostas that won't grow properly there.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

The tree is right in the back. Roses are in the middle of the landscaping.Do you think I should remove the plants in the middle and just make 2 rings with the pavers I have there? 1 around the tree and 1 around the lightpole and then plant new grass in the middle? We cannot grow anything there anyway....Let me know, thanks.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

I wouldn't change anything about the hardscaping until you get your soil tested. Something's going on there if both the roses and hostas are unhappy. Go to your local GARDEN CENTER (not lowes or home depot) and get a soil test kit - one that you send away.

You should move the roses no matter what. That tree will get big enough to shade them out.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

Leah Frances said:


> I wouldn't change anything about the hardscaping until you get your soil tested. Something's going on there if both the roses and hostas are unhappy. Go to your local GARDEN CENTER (not lowes or home depot) and get a soil test kit - one that you send away.
> 
> You should move the roses no matter what. That tree will get big enough to shade them out.



How hard would it be seed some grass in that area? I was thinking of leaving a circle around the lightpole and around the tree and to place grass seed in the middle. What do you think?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Grass is hard to grow under trees both b/c of shade and many trees have lots of tiny roots in the upper strata of topsoil that pull too much moisture for grass.

If your heart is set on grass try it, use a shade mix of perennial grasses. Be ready to water.

Me, I'd pop some hostas where the roses were and be done with it. But I like hostas.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

Leah Frances said:


> Grass is hard to grow under trees both b/c of shade and many trees have lots of tiny roots in the upper strata of topsoil that pull too much moisture for grass.
> 
> If your heart is set on grass try it, use a shade mix of perennial grasses. Be ready to water.
> 
> Me, I'd pop some hostas where the roses were and be done with it. But I like hostas.


So leave the landscaping as is? If I put knockout roses there do you think they will also suffer? We have Knockouts in our backyard where during the summer it's very hot and they grew like mad!


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## KeithWhisman (May 17, 2011)

Do Hostas have flowers? Do they grow in Phoenix?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

dinosaur1 said:


> So leave the landscaping as is? If I put knockout roses there do you think they will also suffer? We have Knockouts in our backyard where during the summer it's very hot and they grew like mad!


The knockouts will probably suffer too. Sorry.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

dinosaur,
Sorry for not answering sooner. 

A. The roses I posted are knockouts.
B. The tree just behind the roses is a mature sugar maple. From the camera's perspective there is a redbud and a couple of oaks.
C. The photo with the smallest roses is on the west side of this park but they are directly under the canopy of some very old oak trees.

In this situation, the trees will always win when fighting for water. However, in your yard there should not be nearly the competition. Also, there is plenty of light and room for knockouts to thrive there. Something else is going on. I would try to get my local extension agent or a master gardener to come out on-site and help you. 

In my opinion, landscaping is a lot like your wardrobe. Different people like different things. Some things obviously don't go together but that is another story. Personally, I would leave the one bed around both the light pole and the tree. But I like clumps. For one thing, maintenance is much easier that way.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> dinosaur,
> Sorry for not answering sooner.
> 
> A. The roses I posted are knockouts.
> ...


















The flower carpet roses are in the middle. After 2 yrs look at how small they are after Spring. Do you think I should make a circle around the lightpole and tree and put grass sod in the middle or would that look weird? If I take out the carpet roses there will be so much empty space in the middle there.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Nice turf!

I'm still having some question as to why things aren't growing well there. It looks like the tree is doing fairly well and it is not large enough yet to effect the bed, especially since it doesn't see to be taking nutrients from the lawn at all. I can't get away from the thinking that something is amiss with the soil immediately surrounding the smaller plants. That said, there is a saying, "sleep, creep, leap." For the most part, when you plant permanent material, the first year they need to get new roots established. If they look healthy, be satisfied. The second year they will begin to grow some and take off the next year. Some roses, such as hybrid teas, will grow faster because that is their nature. But even at that, they need a year of two to get established. 

At the risk of overstepping, I presume you are aware that carpet roses are essentially a ground cover. They will get nowhere as large as the knockouts. Thinking back, those I posted are probably about five years old. So if yours are doing well, I wouldn't be overly concerned. However, since you said that even hostas are having trouble there, that worries me a little. But, hostas will tolerate some sun but really like more shade unless irrigated well.

A design idea since you asked:
I like the practice of allowing walkways, driveways, etc to go through a garden as opposed to bordering one edge. Without a photo of the area to the right (I presume between the front door and drive) I could see continuing the bed across the walkway where the walkway in effect goes through the bed so that, instead of passing by, one enjoys the trip through. I would maybe leave one mower strip of lawn beside the driveway going toward the street from the back of the car.

PS
Looking from the camera position, where is north?


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> Nice turf!
> 
> I'm still having some question as to why things aren't growing well there. It looks like the tree is doing fairly well and it is not large enough yet to effect the bed, especially since it doesn't see to be taking nutrients from the lawn at all. I can't get away from the thinking that something is amiss with the soil immediately surrounding the smaller plants. That said, there is a saying, "sleep, creep, leap." For the most part, when you plant permanent material, the first year they need to get new roots established. If they look healthy, be satisfied. The second year they will begin to grow some and take off the next year. Some roses, such as hybrid teas, will grow faster because that is their nature. But even at that, they need a year of two to get established.
> 
> ...


North is to the left. 

Instead of the orange mulch all around our home is it a good idea to replace it with some type or orange colored pebbles or rock? Replacing mulch every 2 yrs is getting pricey.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

I should have touched on this earlier but always give your location when asking gardening questions.

When you say orange mulch, I presume you are referring to shredded pine or cypress which has been dyed? I like the natural color as a matter of personal preference but also because it is somewhat cheaper and cheaper yet to just top dress every year or two.

I don't think I would recommend stone. Other than the obvious higher cost upfront, it is much harder to handle both in installing and working in later. If you are in a warmer climate, stone will not only reflect heat, but hold it in longer making for a hotter microclimate. It is also heavier on the roots. This is one of those times when your location makes a difference.

Since your front yard gets morning sun you have more choices for ornamentals. For those plants which like or can tolerate sun, many times the morning sun vs afternoon sun makes a world of difference.

Back to the roses for a moment, the carpet roses should get about a foot high and a couple of feet wide at maturity. Looks like they are headed there. I am a little concerned that they aren't blooming yet though. This is where you probably need some local help with the soil- at least a good soil analysis.

FWIW-
If you ever get caught up, something's not right!:thumbup:

Later,
Richard


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> I should have touched on this earlier but always give your location when asking gardening questions.
> 
> When you say orange mulch, I presume you are referring to shredded pine or cypress which has been dyed? I like the natural color as a matter of personal preference but also because it is somewhat cheaper and cheaper yet to just top dress every year or two.
> 
> ...


Yes orange colored mulch, if I ordered 6 yards last year how many yards should I get next year to top dress? This year the orange still looks very good.

We live close to Milwaukee, WI


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

A yard is 27 cubic feet. How far that goes depends on how deep you install it.

Two points to ponder here:
1. You don't want to keep adding to the point that you get too deep. Four inches should be plenty.
2. You can buy the dye to re-color the mulch. If you can find it to match, that might be a good option. I haven't used it personally but others tell me it lasts about a year. Might save from installing it too deeply or having to remove older mulch, which is wasteful IMO. On the other hand, whatever dye you find might look like [email protected]#$ so you might want to test in a small area first if you do decide to try that route.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> A yard is 27 cubic feet. How far that goes depends on how deep you install it.
> 
> Two points to ponder here:
> 1. You don't want to keep adding to the point that you get too deep. Four inches should be plenty.
> 2. You can buy the dye to re-color the mulch. If you can find it to match, that might be a good option. I haven't used it personally but others tell me it lasts about a year. Might save from installing it too deeply or having to remove older mulch, which is wasteful IMO. On the other hand, whatever dye you find might look like [email protected]#$ so you might want to test in a small area first if you do decide to try that route.



I have more then 4 inches, but the problem is once I start moving it around it will look more black than orange.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Hope this doesn't sound negative, but other than having a naturalist bent that's one of the main reasons I don't like the colored mulch.

In the south that is about as deep as you want it. For your climate, there are some plants that like a good blanket for the winter but that's a different process entirely and completely out of my range. I was born and raised in Georgia but we went up north on vacation to Chattanooga once!

I think trying to re-dye it might be a good first step. Probably won't look any worse than the black.

Good luck.

Richard


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## pretygrrl (May 21, 2011)

*not really related, but help would be much appreciated!*

Greetings, all!
I have what appears to be a new blight on my roses! I don't recognize it and can't seem to id.
Its definitely not blackspot, with which I'm unfortunately all too familiar!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!








If it helps, I live in NYC.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

pretygrrl said:


> Greetings, all!
> I have what appears to be a new blight on my roses! I don't recognize it and can't seem to id.
> Its definitely not blackspot, with which I'm unfortunately all too familiar!
> 
> ...


Start a new thread. So it wont be confusing.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Found this cool site that lets you see house colors with mulch colors!
http://www.mulchcolors.com/choose-mulch-colors


Search for mulch dye, mulch colorants, etc.


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## dinosaur1 (Nov 22, 2009)

downunder said:


> Found this cool site that lets you see house colors with mulch colors!
> http://www.mulchcolors.com/choose-mulch-colors
> 
> 
> Search for mulch dye, mulch colorants, etc.


If I have 1 yard of patio space I want to cover at 1" thick.....and 1 bag of mulch covers 3 sq at 2" thick ho many bags do I need?


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## Allison1888 (Mar 16, 2008)

Agree with others...if the hostas aren't happy, it must be the soil or something! I'm assuming you're fertilizing with a Rose Tone or something similar...adding compost...bananas, etc.?


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