# Aspiring Screw Up..Help!



## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi,
I'm building this shed for my aunt in her back yard. The 4x6 beam across the middle is flush with the top plates but the Simpson beam tie on top of central post sits up higher than beam--and top plates. How do i resolve this issue? 

Do I raise the rafters higher than the top plates by 3 to 4 inches and miter the ends of the 2x6 rafters that i planned on connecting by 2x6hangers to beam?


The roof is a simple lean-to roof (not connected to adjacent structure though). It descends from 10ft to 8ft over 15.5ft. My roofer guy quit yesterday and the project must go on. 

Please check pictures and any suggestions are welcome. I'm taking my time in the hope that i can do it right first time.

My aunt has suggested no overhang--just gutters at 8 found end to deal with runoff.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Use one of these instead of what your trying to use.
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ot-ol_apg.asp

No over hang I feel is a really bad idea.
It will shorten the life of the siding,

I sure hope you sealed under those bottom plates, there's going to be two issues your going to be dealing with by building that shed on a slab like that, one is water getting in under the bottom plates, and the sheathing or siding rotting out at the bottom of the wall.
Sheathing, or T-111 if that's what the plan is for siding needed to be 6" from grade.
One way around it is to use 1 X 6 vinyl lumber around the base of the wall, Z molding then the siding.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

I hope you never get rain on that slab.

Could you cut it down with a grinder? say 1/8" lower then the top of the beam.
That beam lands above the window? Is the header strong enough?


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

mae-ling said:


> I hope you never get rain on that slab.
> 
> Could you cut it down with a grinder? say 1/8" lower then the top of the beam.
> That beam lands above the window? Is the header strong enough?


I reinforced the window with 4x4's at header and top of cripple. I thought of that with grinder but metal looks really thick. ????


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Use one of these instead of what your trying to use.
> http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ot-ol_apg.asp
> 
> No over hang I feel is a really bad idea.
> ...




1. Yes I did seal under the bottom plates and plan on using some kind of flashing wall to ground (what kind?). The siding is some kind of Hardywood 4 x 8 panels. Was pushing her for concrete siding. Thanks for good suggestion about vinyl lumber.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Use one of these instead of what your trying to use.
> http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ot-ol_apg.asp
> 
> No over hang I feel is a really bad idea.
> ...


forgot to mention that the column runs up to two beams that meet in the middle. Is that simpson tie you suggested for one continuous beam or would it work for two as well.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

4 X 4's have little side load strength. Even that 4 X 6 your trying to use for a beam would never fly around here for that use for that span.
They tend to check, twist and sag over time.
Ganged up 2X's, LVL's or glue lams would have been much better.

The header of the window should have had doubled up 2 X 4's for the cripples, at least a doubled up 2 X 6 with 1/2 OSB or plywood between them, double up jacks around the window and below it so the load was transfured down to the slab.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

On looking more I realize you need a bigger beam. 
Also both ends would be best supported with posts (multiple 2x4) right to the ground. Can you move the window location?
Just cut your center post shorter. 
If you can't move the window go with doubled up 2x10 with 1/2" plywood in-between. May be overkill but that is a lot of weight resting there.


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

I was just wondering why you have that post getting in the way of everything in the first place. A gluelam or 10" sandwich beam resting on two posts in the walls would be more than adequate wouldn't it?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No form of siding with wood fibers is rated for direct grade contact. 
Not even Hardee plank can be installed that close to grade. It needs to be at least 4" above grade.

There's not going to be anyway to keep water from coming in under the door.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

joecaption said:


> No form of siding with wood fibers is rated for direct grade contact.
> Not even Hardee plank can be installed that close to grade. It needs to be at least 4" above grade.
> 
> There's not going to be anyway to keep water from coming in under the door.


Thanks for suggestion but water generally doesn't run up hill. To come in under the door it would have to run up hill. The slab has a tiny slope downhill towards the front of the shed.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

OldNBroken said:


> I was just wondering why you have that post getting in the way of everything in the first place. A gluelam or 10" sandwich beam resting on two posts in the walls would be more than adequate wouldn't it?


Wasn't sure that a beam going spanning the entire middle and connected above window would be adequate over the long run. I did reinforce both walls at the beam--on the far side with a 4x4 going straight down and the opposite wall with a 4x4 header and another 4x4 at the top of the cripple. I will go back and double my 2x4's that span the cripple to header if necessary.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Totally depends on the load on the roof. How much snow you get?
That wdw is still a weak point.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

mae-ling said:


> Totally depends on the load on the roof. How much snow you get?
> That wdw is still a weak point.


we get NO snow and barely any rain....Southern California


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

Odd design.. Were you trying to match something on the property building it like that? But oh well.. Are you trying to set your rafters on top of the walls/beam or are you trying to cut them in between? I read a few different conflicting things..


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Man I didn't even catch that. Are you trying to put them inbetween with hangers, or sit on top of walls and beam. Pleas say on top.:yes:


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

CopperClad said:


> Odd design.. Were you trying to match something on the property building it like that? But oh well.. Are you trying to set your rafters on top of the walls/beam or are you trying to cut them in between? I read a few different conflicting things..


There were a variety of concerns when we decided on design. First, of course, would be incorporation into neighborhood aesthetic; 1. all one story homes with minimum slope to roof. if you look at picture neighbor's shed is somewhat similar. 2. she converted her garage into an in-law while had minimum space for building in backyard--no car access (15x15) but needed 3. considerable storage space and a small workspace. 4. She also has a very large motorcycle she will ride in through double doors at front of space taking up considerable storage space. The larger front of the shed allows for greater storage while still looking similar to neighborhood styles. 

As for the beams, I'm at a position where nothing you see is nailed in (the beam set up). I can go either way. I'm not sure which would be better for a novice in my position. Flush with the beam with hangers or on top of beam? If I go flush with the walls of the building, which would be better? If I go with eaves (considering 6" to three side and 1' to front over door), would rafters on top of beam be better? 

Thanks guys for all the info.


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes. You want the rafters to sit on top of the walls/beams. It will be much easier for you to make an overhang that way, and you won't have to worry about trimming the top of the simpson bucket. So you said you have 2x6's for the roof? As long as you space them 16''OC you should be fine. Are you going to be sheathing the outside of the walls? And with your 4x6 roof beam hangers on the sides that meets the walls, how many nails go into them? and how long of a nail did you use? Just trying to make sure you're safe up there is all. Looking good. Looks like ya had some good concrete guys out there :thumbsup:


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*roof novice*



CopperClad said:


> Yes. You want the rafters to sit on top of the walls/beams. It will be much easier for you to make an overhang that way, and you won't have to worry about trimming the top of the simpson bucket. So you said you have 2x6's for the roof? As long as you space them 16''OC you should be fine. Are you going to be sheathing the outside of the walls? And with your 4x6 roof beam hangers on the sides that meets the walls, how many nails go into them? and how long of a nail did you use? Just trying to make sure you're safe up there is all. Looking good. Looks like ya had some good concrete guys out there :thumbsup:


OK. Yes I have 2x6's for roof. I planned on spacing them 16'OC. What is the best method of attachment to beam when on top? Right now I haven't nailed in beam hangers just a couple to of screws to judge level and roof plan. I have intended to use 16d framing nails though. Were using this concrete fiber board for the exterior-HardyPanel. Thanks Copper!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Hardee panel can not be installed that close to grade. It will just fall apart that the bottom.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

I can't help myself. Since there is no structural need for that post and beam in the center of the structure, what is it for?


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

And, one other question. If it's supposed to be a shed roof, why the same lenght suds all the way around? The high side should have been done with 10' studs, low side with 8' and the two ends cut to fill in the rakes. Just curious.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Hardee panel can not be installed that close to grade. It will just fall apart that the bottom.


can't be installed within 6" of grade. was thinkin of some sort of 1x6 vinyl lumber or cedar skirt with drip cap


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

tinner666 said:


> And, one other question. If it's supposed to be a shed roof, why the same lenght suds all the way around? The high side should have been done with 10' studs, low side with 8' and the two ends cut to fill in the rakes. Just curious.


high side was done with 10', low side with 8'???


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

There is a structural need for it technically, it very well could have been full span 2x10 rafters The way he is building it is fine. Nothing is overspanned with him putting that beam there and post midspan. You must have looked at the pictures wrong because the walls are definitely built correctly for a shed roof. The best attachment for you rafter to beam is to set them on top. The front rafter should overlap the beam a little towards the back side, and then the back rafters should overlap the beam a little towards the front side, and then nail the 2 sets of rafters together with 3'' 16D nails. You should also solid block in between each of the rafters on top of the beams, that way when you sheet the roof, you will nail into the rafters and the solid blocking helping your walls stay together. At the wall side you will set the rafters on top of the wall(front and back) and put what they call solid bird blocking. This will let your roof breathe and depending on if you are sheeting the walls(which I believe you should do) or not you will want to keep the block flush with the sheeting to give yourself a smooth transition with the siding. You will then need to nail a simpson tie plate called H2.5 or H1 from the top plates of your wall to your rafter. Any confusion with any of this ask first please. You have a good start going here, keep up the good work !


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

lionscourt said:


> high side was done with 10', low side with 8'???


 My bad. It looked as if all 4 walls were the same height.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

OK. I was thinking I read it was 15' by 15'. We would span 'ceiling joists' level, but have one wall taller than the other for a simple shed roof. I must have looked at it wrong.



CopperClad said:


> There is a structural need for it technically, it very well could have been full span 2x10 rafters The way he is building it is fine. Nothing is overspanned with him putting that beam there and post midspan. You must have looked at the pictures wrong because the walls are definitely built correctly for a shed roof. The best attachment for you rafter to beam is to set them on top. The front rafter should overlap the beam a little towards the back side, and then the back rafters should overlap the beam a little towards the front side, and then nail the 2 sets of rafters together with 3'' 16D nails. You should also solid block in between each of the rafters on top of the beams, that way when you sheet the roof, you will nail into the rafters and the solid blocking helping your walls stay together. At the wall side you will set the rafters on top of the wall(front and back) and put what they call solid bird blocking. This will let your roof breathe and depending on if you are sheeting the walls(which I believe you should do) or not you will want to keep the block flush with the sheeting to give yourself a smooth transition with the siding. You will then need to nail a simpson tie plate called H2.5 or H1 from the top plates of your wall to your rafter. Any confusion with any of this ask first please. You have a good start going here, keep up the good work !


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks guys, started rafter's today will send pics tomorrow as phone ran out of power by end of day.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*rafters*



CopperClad said:


> There is a structural need for it technically, it very well could have been full span 2x10 rafters The way he is building it is fine. Nothing is overspanned with him putting that beam there and post midspan. You must have looked at the pictures wrong because the walls are definitely built correctly for a shed roof. The best attachment for you rafter to beam is to set them on top. The front rafter should overlap the beam a little towards the back side, and then the back rafters should overlap the beam a little towards the front side, and then nail the 2 sets of rafters together with 3'' 16D nails. You should also solid block in between each of the rafters on top of the beams, that way when you sheet the roof, you will nail into the rafters and the solid blocking helping your walls stay together. At the wall side you will set the rafters on top of the wall(front and back) and put what they call solid bird blocking. This will let your roof breathe and depending on if you are sheeting the walls(which I believe you should do) or not you will want to keep the block flush with the sheeting to give yourself a smooth transition with the siding. You will then need to nail a simpson tie plate called H2.5 or H1 from the top plates of your wall to your rafter. Any confusion with any of this ask first please. You have a good start going here, keep up the good work !


Here's latest pics. I'm not sure how to attach rafter right above top plate in second picture. Tomorrow solid blocking. Any advice on placement of blocking? I haven't nailed anything in so as to correct any mistakes. Thanks in advance.


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

ugh..


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

Lookin good lionscourt!I would put bird blocking on your walls. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5731.0 Scroll down a little and you will see the bird blocks. Also, not sure if you can see it in the photo, you need to cut a 1 1/2'' x 3 1/2'' notch on your last rafter so you can put your 2x4 outrigger to give yourself an overhang on your sloped walls.-- You don't really need the H2.5 ties on the beam, for your situation it would just be better to cut 14 1/2'' x 2 x 6 blocks , standing them upright in between your rafters. Any questions just ask .


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*plywood*



CopperClad said:


> Lookin good lionscourt!I would put bird blocking on your walls. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5731.0 Scroll down a little and you will see the bird blocks. Also, not sure if you can see it in the photo, you need to cut a 1 1/2'' x 3 1/2'' notch on your last rafter so you can put your 2x4 outrigger to give yourself an overhang on your sloped walls.-- You don't really need the H2.5 ties on the beam, for your situation it would just be better to cut 14 1/2'' x 2 x 6 blocks , standing them upright in between your rafters. Any questions just ask .


anything I should know about laying the plywood? does the 4x8plywood work better across rafters or going down the length of rafters? It is important to start in one corner and do rows across?

I looked up info on outriggers and understand the need to cut a notch out of last rafter. Is it just one notch at bottom or rafter or a notch for each outrigger for overhang?

Thanks again!


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

You will want all of your outriggers in place(outrigger every 4 feet on your raked walls) and you will want all of your fascia boards installed prior to sheeting your roof. It appears you started your joist layout from the center of the wall, so you will start your first row of sheeting from that point at the bottom of your rake. Lay your entire first row of sheeting cutting the two pieces on both sides of the structure. On the second row of sheeting you will stagger your seams 4ft( half of the 8 ft sheet). You want to lay your sheets perpendicular with your joist.


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## tinner666 (Mar 14, 2005)

Just apologizing if my earlier comments caused any confusion. I didn't look at the pix right and can only say the heat exhaustion must have been getting me worst than normal.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*'rough' day*



CopperClad said:


> You will want all of your outriggers in place(outrigger every 4 feet on your raked walls) and you will want all of your fascia boards installed prior to sheeting your roof. It appears you started your joist layout from the center of the wall, so you will start your first row of sheeting from that point at the bottom of your rake. Lay your entire first row of sheeting cutting the two pieces on both sides of the structure. On the second row of sheeting you will stagger your seams 4ft( half of the 8 ft sheet). You want to lay your sheets perpendicular with your joist.


Today didn't go that well or according to plan. The 'help' placed several rafters upside down (i mitered back of them for vertical facia) which led a misalignment of whole back row and a hole lot of of pulling nails. In the end I felt like not much got done. I had hoped to be done with the outriggers and on to working on to bird blocks (do i still need them if I plan on framing in vents?). 

In the end my back row of rafters are slightly misaligned but did get a good start on blocking. Tomorrow I'm getting an early start and should have pics of plywood sheeting to roof. I downloaded some pictures of outriggers to my phone so am excited about doing that element tomorrow. Thanks E1!


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## mae-ling (Dec 9, 2011)

Are your studs nailed together in the corner? can see daylight through.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*latest pics*

Here's latest pics. Girlfriend came over and distracted me with a picnic lunch but got more done anyway.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

CopperClad said:


> You will want all of your outriggers in place(outrigger every 4 feet on your raked walls) and you will want all of your fascia boards installed prior to sheeting your roof. It appears you started your joist layout from the center of the wall, so you will start your first row of sheeting from that point at the bottom of your rake. Lay your entire first row of sheeting cutting the two pieces on both sides of the structure. On the second row of sheeting you will stagger your seams 4ft( half of the 8 ft sheet). You want to lay your sheets perpendicular with your joist.


It would seem to me that it would be better to have one long continuous board for fascia---rather than splicing two 8ft boards (they dont have 20ft fascia at Lowes--you have to special order the longer boards). Splicing two boards would be difficult to attach to outriggers right at seam of fascia?


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## CopperClad (Jun 22, 2012)

It would be better to have one piece fascia, but even if you do go to your local lumber yard you would want to put a block mid span along your rake wall outriggers to keep it from rolling.. To do this, lets say your overhang on the rake walls are 12''. You would just cut a 12'' 2x6 and nail it to your outrigger standing upright and then nail it through the backside of the gable rafter. Make sense? If not I will find a photo for clarification.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

CopperClad said:


> It would be better to have one piece fascia, but even if you do go to your local lumber yard you would want to put a block mid span along your rake wall outriggers to keep it from rolling.. To do this, lets say your overhang on the rake walls are 12''. You would just cut a 12'' 2x6 and nail it to your outrigger standing upright and then nail it through the backside of the gable rafter. Make sense? If not I will find a photo for clarification.


yes. nail it along side the outrigger and into outside (gable) rafter. Thanks!


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*latest pic*

working on fascia board then roof.....


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*new pics*

could only get a couple hours in today but put fascia up to get some measurements right, and drill miter'd cuts then took it down to prime and paint it.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*bird blocks*

Day 8 and Bird Bloks


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

Day9 Started huckin' 4x8's up a ladder to the roof today and getting them nail down. Will send pics from on top tomorrow. Laying felt by mid day.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*plywood*

ok...got plywood down on roof. first time doing it so was a learning process. There were a few areas with slight gaps. anything i should be worried about other than nails in gaps??? on to felt and shingles tomorrow.


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

closed the gaps with 2x6 blocks and cutouts....


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

CopperClad said:


> Lookin good lionscourt!I would put bird blocking on your walls. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5731.0 Scroll down a little and you will see the bird blocks. Also, not sure if you can see it in the photo, you need to cut a 1 1/2'' x 3 1/2'' notch on your last rafter so you can put your 2x4 outrigger to give yourself an overhang on your sloped walls.-- You don't really need the H2.5 ties on the beam, for your situation it would just be better to cut 14 1/2'' x 2 x 6 blocks , standing them upright in between your rafters. Any questions just ask .



i've got the blocking in (pics) but it get's much sun. do i need vents as well???


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

*nearly done!*

man this is hard work...how much should i charge her???? I'm nearly done with roof...ran out of shingles and had to order another bundle....


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## lionscourt (Jul 15, 2012)

Never posted finished picks.......this is not but will post pics soon











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