# Windows Leaking Nightmare



## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

While the junction of the stucco and vinyl should be channeled and sealed with a high expansion sealent, I suspect the troubles are much bigger, judgeing from some of the water signs in the pics. First, you need to find a real stucco craftsman, not whoever did the patches shown.
My suspicion is that there is a lack of adequate drainage plane behind the entire stucco job. As wind driven rain and heat driven humidity penetrate the stucco, there is probably massive condensation occurring behind the stuccco. With no proper flashings to guide it to the exterior, it runs down and collects on the sill plates and/or tops of the window frames. That little superficial drip cap shown is not the solution; this should be a flashing that has a vertical leg tucked behind the drainage plane and extends horizontally out over the window to guide moisture to the exterior. There should be a similar flashing at the bottom edge of the stucco, around the entire building.

Sorry, but I believe you have a high dollar problem here.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks, for the reply, troubleseeker. You've confirmed my fear that whatever these guys were doing was not going to work. I do have already a weep screed installed at the bottom of the stucco that I've just wire brushed and opened some patched weepholes (see attached). But it's probably not going to make much difference. I see that the water gets to the sill plate within 4 min of me spraying the bottom right corner of the window. And I know it's not the window hardware itself as we've had it sealed during the water tests which showed that the water penetrates through the stucco/vinyl junction.

So, if I understood the situation correctly, to do it right I'd have to remove the stucco around the windows and the windows and make sure the windows are properly flashed. Then have the stucco professional to re-stucco and then repaint the house (my current stucco is already painted). Taking into consideration the number of windows, I hope I have enough years left in me and $$ to ever finish this job. 

What do you think about sealing the vinyl/stucco junction with high quality long lasting caulk and painting the entire house with elastomeric paint? Will this be a reasonable compromise?


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Assuming that what we are seeing here is the backside of a flashing or a weep screed:


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Could this green metal plate be part of the balcony frame? This window is on the second floor and the balcony is attached right outside of it. I've attached more pictures with annotations. Hopefully, this clarifies it a little.

Is my only realistic option to paint the stucco with elastomeric paint and then repaint it every 5 years? I can't imagine what it would cost to rip off the stucco from half of the house to fix the water barrier and flashings.

Thank you very much in advance for your opinions.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Have you looked at the roof?


Did you troubleshoot it with a hose/pressure washer? 



You need to find the points of entry then figure the coarse of the repair.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Yes, the roof has been tested. All is good. We've tested the windows with water hose and the water starts streaking down on the inside as shown int he picture within 4 min. I think we are pretty clear where the water enters--it penetrates through the vinyl/stucco junction at the bottom corners of the window. Water barrier/flashings fail to guide the water to the exterior and it ends up on the sill plates. Now, I am trying to figure out a feasible solution for this without removing all stucco/lath and fixing drainage plane from scratch. I doubt I can afford this. Will coating with elastomeric paint help to eliminate majority of leaks? I understand this is not the right solution to this problem, but this is probably second to the best solution I could afford. Thank you.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

see nobody really wants to tell you it will help,could possibly make things worse

stucco really needs to be cut back,the units removed,all flashings need to overlap the existing paper

ive used a technique where i use a piece of flashing directing water over the top of the stucco


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

deeonline said:


> Thanks, for the reply, troubleseeker. You've confirmed my fear that whatever these guys were doing was not going to work. I do have already a weep screed installed at the bottom of the stucco that I've just wire brushed and opened some patched weepholes (see attached). But it's probably not going to make much difference. I see that the water gets to the sill plate within 4 min of me spraying the bottom right corner of the window. And I know it's not the window hardware itself as we've had it sealed during the water tests which showed that the water penetrates through the stucco/vinyl junction.
> 
> So, if I understood the situation correctly, to do it right I'd have to remove the stucco around the windows and the windows and make sure the windows are properly flashed. Then have the stucco professional to re-stucco and then repaint the house (my current stucco is already painted). Taking into consideration the number of windows, I hope I have enough years left in me and $$ to ever finish this job.
> 
> What do you think about sealing the vinyl/stucco junction with high quality long lasting caulk and painting the entire house with elastomeric paint? Will this be a reasonable compromise?


If your testing seems pretty convincing that the windows are the primary source of water intrusion, I would do one window that is easy to spot the leakage on and then test. If sucessfull, proceed with others. As pointed out in another reply from Michael Thomas, the apparent incorrect installation of the bottom drip screed will continue to direct moisture into the wall unless also fixed. And the top of each window and door will have to be flashed behind the drainage plane to direct moisture to the exterior.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Thank you tomstruble. I wonder if it's really going to make it worse than it is now. My stucco house is already painted. Just the fresh patches around the windows are the only areas that haven't been painted yet. That's why I was thinking of repainting everything with elastomeric paint as plan B.

Looking at your picture #1, I see the window is flashed with FlexWrap. Is the latter exposed like shown on the picture all time or is it covered with a window trim? In my case, the windows are embedded flush with the stucco, no trim. Once it is properly flashed with FlexWrap, where the water, lets say, entered through the window vinyl/stucco junction on the second floor should exit? Below the same window through the stucco or should it travel on top of the building paper all the way down and exit at the weep screed at the bottom? I've been reading and watching various videos, but have hard time finalizing this concept in my head.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

the first pic was a different window and did have a composite trim that was spaced off the flashing so water could exit over the stucco

the second pic shows the flashing under the window sill but is hard to see

in your case the windows probably have a fin on the bottom,when i flash the bottom of a window i like to put a rip of beveled siding on the rough sill to help pitch water to the outside

so as long as you flash over the paper you should be ok you could retrofit all the windows to have a trim detail


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

I see. Thank you very much for explanation and the pictures--they do speak a thousand words.  I think even if I flash the windows properly with FlexWrap and tape the flanges with Flashing tape, I might still have leakage issues letting the water traveling down the paper, since a) I've noticed the paper is stapled to the studs with big construction grade staples (in many place they've missed the studs and the staples are simply sticking out trough the paper) and the water may still enter the building envelope via the wholes created by staples and b) the paper is ripped or partially missing in some places near the sill plates so I can see parts of cement (stucco?) projecting through the paper as you can see in the pictures above. For some reason, the northern and eastern side of my house doesn't have any sheathing. That's why I am afraid that even if I open 12" around the windows and flash/tape them properly, the water can still get in via the defects in the building paper explained above. I have a feeling I'd need to remove all stucco, fix the paper, and then flash the windows to make this really work. Am I on the right track?


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

If you have repairs performed, one thing too keep in mind is that testing has demonstrated that conventional house wraps (such as Tyvek ™ ) are not the best backings - and in fact may not be acceptable backings, from a performance standpoint - for conventional stucco, see for example:

Water Managed Wall Systems - Building Science Corporation

I mention this because I often see conventional housewraps used when performing such repairs.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

deeonline,

I tried to send you a private message, but you are not set up to receive them. If this was not a deliberate choice, you might want to turn on PM in your user profile.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

the problem with stucco and any housewrap or even felt for that matter is when the stucco bonds to it,using a 2 layer wrb system with felt on the outside is recomended with stucco not because the synthetics are deficiant,but rather the bonding issue

in this instance the op should be using ''water proof'' matierials to flash around the windows,not water resistant ones


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Thank you guys for all your advice. You did help me understand how this should properly work. I wish I've done this research earlier prior to wasting $$ on sealing around the windows.

@Michael Thomas: Thank you for the Water Management PDF link. It has all needed information in one place and it's easy to digest too. What a great resource. As far as the PM goes, I am not sure why you can't send those to me. I haven't disabled anything. Maybe this feature is disabled by default? I've dug around the User CP interface and haven't found anything where I could activate it. I've emailed the site support for guidance. Feel free to email me at dmitri [dot] moore [at] gmail dot com any time, though.

@tomstruble: I see 4-5 layers of felt paper at the top portion of the wall with stucco bonded to the first layer, but then I see no paper at all near the green metal plate with pieces of stucco protruding through the wall as shown in the last close-up picture in my post #5. I can't imagine something like this being passed by an inspector. They do inspect this stuff, don't they?

@all: One small question is still puzzling me. When the felt paper is applied to sheathing (or directly to studs, like in my case), numerous staple holes are made. Doesn't this compromise the WBR? How can I ensure that water streaking down the paper doesn't enter the building via those holes? I doubt sealing each staple hole is a feasible option for anyone.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

to a certain extent yes it does compromise its effectiveness,that's why ''waterproofing'' is a multi layered process


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

tomstruble said:


> the problem with stucco and any housewrap or even felt for that matter is when the stucco bonds to it,using a 2 layer wrb system with felt on the outside is recommended with stucco not because the synthetics are deficient,but rather the bonding issue
> 
> in this instance the op should be using ''water proof'' materials to flash around the windows,not water resistant ones


Exactly, which is why BSC article reference above recommends paperbacked stucco lath (with the paper providing a "bond break") over one of the "channelized" engineered stuccowraps, just as you suggest. The amazing thing is that here in Chicago I often still see ordinary housewraps installed directly under the lath at new construction.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

me too Mike


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

if you really want to make sure the problem is fixed, cut back stucco, take window out, wrap and caulk opening, peel and stick sill, install window, peel and stick around flanges (except for bottom) install flashing with end dams. Through wall flashing (at each level) would be good too if you ever get to taking that much stucco off. make sure weep holes are working properly.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

chrisBC said:


> if you really want to make sure the problem is fixed, cut back stucco, take window out, wrap and caulk opening, peel and stick sill, install window, peel and stick around flanges (except for bottom) install flashing with end dams. Through wall flashing (at each level) would be good too if you ever get to taking that much stucco off. make sure weep holes are working properly.


 
wow what a great idea:thumbup:


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

thanks tom!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Good site- that BSC, huh, Michael....... lol

Op, here is a window, commercial flashed; http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...Qhob1z&sig=AHIEtbSStI_KRvAh59zqX1IjstvXQPNoxA

And if you DIY; http://books.google.com/books?id=mF...tucco&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=21#v=onepage&q=&f=false

pp.158--- ; http://books.google.com/books?id=0d...tucco&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=20#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Gary


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

Michael Thomas said:


> Exactly, which is why BSC article reference above recommends paperbacked stucco lath (with the paper providing a "bond break") over one of the "channelized" engineered stuccowraps, just as you suggest. The amazing thing is that here in Chicago I often still see ordinary housewraps installed directly under the lath at new construction.


Same observation here. Unfortunatley, many builders have the belief that housewrap is a miracle product, and that all construction evils will be solved just because you apply this product, no matter how poorly the application. As is too frequently the case in this business, fast and cheap does not always equal correct.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

chrisBC said:


> if you really want to make sure the problem is fixed, cut back stucco, take window out, wrap and caulk opening, peel and stick sill, install window, peel and stick around flanges (except for bottom) install flashing with end dams. Through wall flashing (at each level) would be good too if you ever get to taking that much stucco off. make sure weep holes are working properly.


I see the building paper torn or missing in other places too, not just under the windows. I believe even I had all windows removed, properly flashed, and reinstalled, I would still have leaks inside the house due to the fact that missing paper will simply fail to guide the water out through the weep screed. Removing the stucco from the entire house and fixing all building paper/flashings sound like a very expensive work too and I don't even know who I could trust with it here in LA. Unfortunately, I think the only feasible way to minimize water intrusion here is to paint the house with a couple of coats of elastomeric paint thus creating a water barrier at the paint level. Not the right solution, but it would probably yield better results than what I have now. If you guys know anyone in LA area who could suggest/estimate the proper solution, I'd be more than glad to consider that route too.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

as long as the stucco has a proper gap water will tend to run vertically not get ''drawn in'' horizontally

you may get some minor staining around the fastener holding the paper

again on stucco a 2 ply wrb system is recomended


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

*Window Head Flashing*

Hi. I am trying to come up with an appropriate vinyl window flashing detail for my Los Angeles stucco house. We don't get much rain, but as they say "when it rains it pours". Average 260+ sunny days per year. 

With this in mind, do I really need to install head flashing with drip cap above each of the windows as the one depicted here: http://suresill.com/temp/newweb/suresill_products_headflash.html, or am I OK as long as the window is properly flashed/taped with the top flange under the WRB? 

Thanks in advance.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

A brief update on this. Nothing we've tried as a temporary band-aid worked. So, we are now exercising our last option--removing stucco and redoing water barrier/flashings. Pretty much pulling windows out and stripping everything down to the studs. D the builder.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

you should consider having the sill flashing draining directly to the outside much the same as the head flashing


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

double post


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## AndyGump (Sep 26, 2010)

Here in So. Cal there are not many that install a head flashing for vinyl windows. I'm, not saying that you should not but I think that if properly flashed with *****ethane or something equivalent you should be O.K.

I do however like to install a sill pan as Tom said previously. If it is new construction you can install the pan so that it lets moisture slip between the stucco and the Grade 'D' paper (two layers). If retrofitted which is what I assume than just as Tom said is spot on.
I have some special tricks I personally like to use when installing retro vinyl windows.

Andy.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

deeonline, I merged your threads to give prior info posted and pictures....

Page #8 for a good head flashing; http://www.mtcc1170.com/images/BCRainScreen.pdf

Gary


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for keeping us updated.. If you have a chance, post some pictures of what you find when you remove some additional stucco and a window, and we may have some additional suggestions.


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## mem (Dec 15, 2010)

The posters on this thread know more about stucco than I ever will. From what I've read here though, it sounds like this was constructed improper from day one. As such it's hard to believe that this problem has manifested itself in just the last five months, since your purchase. I think the previous owners would have to have been fully aware of the situation and failed to disclose the information. IMHO, you may very well have legal recourse to require the seller to effect proper repairs.


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## JKosiki (Feb 13, 2011)

Did you check the joints in the parapet above the windows?
If there are no "standing S joints" or something to prevent water from syphoning into the parapet metal joints, the water will wick into the parapet, down the wall, and into window frames. 
No amount of caulking will permanently cure it, the metal joints move and expand too much.
Water will climb 1/2 inches to syphon behind a metal joint or cracked caulking. 
Wind will make the water "climb" even higher.
If the parapet is good, you may have to go to a "rain screen" system with a drainage plane behind the masonary stucco.
Good luck.


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## JKosiki (Feb 13, 2011)

Also, I don't recommend elastomeric coatings. 
They make a vapor barrier on the outside skin of the building, and cause condensation in the cold weather. It's ok to have the vapor barrier on the outside only in climates where it is never cold outside, but air conditioning is used extensively inside, so the cold side of the wall is always inside.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks tomstruble. I am going to be making a beveled sill with a back dam to guide the water outside. As far as the WRB goes, I'll be using liquid WRB from StoCorp (Sto GoldCoat) instead of paper.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

GBR in WA said:


> deeonline, I merged your threads to give prior info posted and pictures....
> 
> Page #8 for a good head flashing; http://www.mtcc1170.com/images/BCRainScreen.pdf
> 
> Gary


Hi Gary. I was under impression that I need a separate thread for a different question. Not sure why my thread about Head Flashing got merged into my original thread re: leaking windows. Is it because they are somewhat related? In my opinion it would be much more clear to everyone to keep these topics separately. If you could please shed some light on the forum policy I would very much appreciate it. I want to make sure I stay compliant with it. Thanks!


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Just wanted to make sure that you are aware that GoldCoat is intended to be used as part of Sto's StoGuard system, not as a stand alone WRB, and also that the system does not have code approval in all areas.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

Michael Thomas said:


> Just wanted to make sure that you are aware that GoldCoat is intended to be used as part of Sto's StoGuard system, not as a stand alone WRB, and also that the system does not have code approval in all areas.


Thanks for the heads-up, Michael. Yes, I will be using the Sto GoldCoat as part of the Sto PowerWall NExt system and this system does have approval from city of Los Angeles (thank god, for a change I see something approved here). I like Sto's approach much better than re-wrapping the house in paper again. I am also going to be using a 3/16 drainage mat to create necessary bond breaker between the WRB and the stucco. I think it's going to come out really nice.


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## deeonline (Dec 27, 2010)

JKosiki said:


> Also, I don't recommend elastomeric coatings.
> They make a vapor barrier on the outside skin of the building, and cause condensation in the cold weather. It's ok to have the vapor barrier on the outside only in climates where it is never cold outside, but air conditioning is used extensively inside, so the cold side of the wall is always inside.


There are elastomeric coatings that are water permeable which allow water vapor to escape from inside to outside and not the other way around. However, I do not like any coating except clear seal on top of finished stucco. I like the look of stucco as is.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

AndyGump said:


> Here in So. Cal there are not many that install a head flashing for vinyl windows. I'm, not saying that you should not but I think that if properly flashed with *****ethane or something equivalent you should be O.K.
> 
> I do however like to install a sill pan as Tom said previously. If it is new construction you can install the pan so that it lets moisture slip between the stucco and the Grade 'D' paper (two layers). If retrofitted which is what I assume than just as Tom said is spot on.
> I have some special tricks I personally like to use when installing retro vinyl windows.
> ...


 
We will need to see these ''tricks'' before you leave Andy:yes::gunsmilie:


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