# Drywall Taping



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Prefilling gaps is a common procedure, just make sure none of the j/c they put in the gaps is proud of the drywall on either side.


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## Marine_16 (May 13, 2020)

I’m sorry but what do you mean by proud?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

If the j/c sticks out past the level of the drywall it will make taping difficult. Take your drywall knife and run it up/down the joint, if it hits any j/c you'll need to scrape off or sand off the excess.


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## Marine_16 (May 13, 2020)

Awesome thank you so much!! Do you have any other tips for first time taping and finishing by yourself?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Make sure the tape coat is good and dry before you apply the 2nd coat of j/c. You don't want the weight of that mud to pull the tape loose. Air bubbles under the tape never go away - you need to cut them out and either fill with mud or retape. Thinning the mud slightly makes it flow/slide better.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

Another tip: Use mud over tape in layers, smooth each layer, wait till dry, sand and put a new layer. 
Sanding is the most important.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

.... and apply the mud in a manner where you only have to sand the final coat. Personally, I'd rather apply an extra coat of mud than do any extra sanding! Tape coat and 2 more coats of j/c is the norm.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

To expand on what Mark Sr said, no need to sand between coats. You are only concerned with what is sticking out. When you're getting ready for your next coat, take a 6" or 8" drywall knife and with light presssure, scrape off any ridges that stick out til they're flush. Then apply your next coat. Sand after the final coat. Prime the new areas and check for anything you missed. You might see some small pinholes left from air bubbles, or an edge of an area you didn't sand properly. Go ahead and fix those and then paint.
Mike Hawkins


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Marine_16 said:


> I’m sorry but what do you mean by proud?



Proud: something that sticks up or out above something else.
Shy: something that is below or short of something else.


You want all the drywall screws to be shy (i.e. countersunk properly). You can determine this by taking your taping knife and sliding it across all the screws. If you get stuck or hear metal scraping, then you have a proud screw. It needs to be screwed in a bit more.



etc.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

dj3 said:


> Another tip: Use mud over tape in layers, smooth each layer, wait till dry, sand and put a new layer.
> Sanding is the most important.



I wouldn't call that a "tip", I'd call that a necessity of the process (unless using setting compound.) You want to be doing the least amount of sanding possible. The better your taping job, the less sanding you'll do.


Since there are issues with paper tape, I'd recommend using FibaFuse (not to be con"fuse"d with FibaTape.)


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

I wouldn't discourage beginners from sanding between coats of mud. It's often required when one is learning to finish.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I would definitely avoid sanding between coats. It's less effort to learn how to apply compound correctly than it is to sand 3 times. If there are a few ridges, simply clear them off with the taping knife, as described above.


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## toddlimelight (May 9, 2020)

What are your thoughts on using fiberglass, self-adhesive, mesh tape, versus paper tape? I love the mesh tape, I find it MUCH easier to use. But I've been told that "if you're using mesh tape, it means you don't know what you're doing".


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Mess tape needs a setting compound applied over it to lock it down. It's prone to 'wrinkle' [not necessarily right away] when just regular premixed joint compound is used. Many pros successfully use mesh tape for repairs [it speeds up the process]


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

For the most part, regular fiberglass mesh tape is "amateur hour". It's used by DIYers and "pros" who are not full time drywallers who don't know what they're doing. There are actually very few circumstances I would use that tape (now that there is a third option, I never use it.)

Mesh tape is weaker than paper tape. Therefore you need to use setting compound with it to achieve full strength rather than standard drying joint compound. If you have to mix your own compound, then where did the convenience of mesh tape go? Out the window.

Paper tape can be more difficult to use for DIYers since it can trap bubbles and form weak spots or high spots that are a problem when sanding and painting. It is strong if done correctly.

Another product called FibaFuse solves these problems. It is as strong or stronger than paper tape, but with almost as much convenience as pre-sticky mesh tape. I recommend it for all taping except for corners (it can be used in corners, you just have to be more careful with it. I still use paper for corners myself.) It's a finer weave than mesh tape, but compound will still flow through it. So once you stick it on with a few dabs of compound, you can tape over it just like mesh tape, if you prefer, without having to lay a base layer like with paper tape. I usually lay a base coat, but you can't really get bubbles like with paper tape.


The second great advantage of this stuff, over both paper tape and mesh tape, is that you can sand it. With paper or mesh, if you sand down to the tape, you're kind of screwed. This stuff is no problem.

Not to be confused with FibaTape - it's FibaFuse.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Saint-Goba...x-250-ft-Mesh-Construction-Joint-Tape/4411371


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

I don't know if this will help on which tape should be used.

Quote: " Repeated joint strength tests conducted at the USG research center have shown that joints taped and finished with conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape and conventional joint compound are more prone to cracking than joints finished with paper tape and conventional joint compounds. This is because fiberglass nesh tapes tend to stretch under load, even after being covered with joint compounds."
" Permanent repair of these cracks is difficult. Accordingly, USG does not recommend using conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape with conventional ready-mixed, powder or chemically setting compounds for general drywall joint finishing."


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Yes of course Clarence, every real pro drywaller knows that, but I've probably never met a DIYer who does. It's not just the stretch in the fibers, it's also the large gaps in the mesh. Just too much space between the reinforcing elements.


Paper tape makes a strong bond because the holes in it where the joint compound embeds are very small. Mesh holes are gigantic in comparison. And while it might seem counterintuitive, drywall itself is strong because of the paper. If you have any doubt about that, think about how you cut drywall. You don't use a circular saw like you would plywood. You simply score the paper with a utility knife. Then the drywall will literally fall apart by itself by its own weight if you merely pick it up. Paper is what gives drywall it's shear strength.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

jeffnc said:


> I would definitely avoid sanding between coats. It's less effort to learn how to apply compound correctly than it is to sand 3 times. If there are a few ridges, simply clear them off with the taping knife, as described above.


It may be less effort to learn to apply mud correctly but we're talking about people who haven't had the experience to teach them that. 

This forum is rife with threads of drywall work that would have benefited from sanding after the 2nd coat of mud, not the tape coat.
In fact often the advice is that more sanding should have been done before priming.

Scraping a ridge here and there works for experienced people but the beginners typically have a lot more to deal with than that. 

Hardly anyone likes to sand drywall & most finishers consider it a reflection on their work, but the goal is to provide a high quality product, so the inexperienced typically have to a bit more sanding work to do.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

finisher65 said:


> It may be less effort to learn to apply mud correctly but we're talking about people who haven't had the experience to teach them that.



That is the reason for this forum's existence!


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

Yes, & sanding is an integral part of finishing drywall.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

finisher65 said:


> Hardly anyone likes to sand drywall & most finishers consider it a reflection on their work, but the goal is to provide a high quality product, so the inexperienced typically have to a bit more sanding work to do.



Let's say they were painting with a roller, and they kept getting edge marks. They could put on one coat, then sand down the edge marks, then put on another coat, then sand down the edge marks, then put on another coat, then sand down the edge marks.....

Or, we could just teach them to use the correctly beveled roller cover and the proper pressure and technique to avoid edge marks to begin with. This really is not rocket surgery. It's not _that_ hard to figure out.


Most people I see do a crappy job because they try to do everything with a single 4" taping knife. Just buying another couple tools in and of itself fixes half the problem.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

finisher65 said:


> Yes, & sanding is an integral part of finishing drywall.



Everyone knows sanding is involved. The question is 3 times, or 1 time?


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

ClarenceBauer said:


> I don't know if this will help on which tape should be used.
> 
> Quote: " Repeated joint strength tests conducted at the USG research center have shown that joints taped and finished with conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape and conventional joint compound are more prone to cracking than joints finished with paper tape and conventional joint compounds. This is because fiberglass nesh tapes tend to stretch under load, even after being covered with joint compounds."
> " Permanent repair of these cracks is difficult. Accordingly, USG does not recommend using conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape with conventional ready-mixed, powder or chemically setting compounds for general drywall joint finishing."


:thumbup1: Possession of mesh tape should be a felony.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

jeffnc said:


> Everyone knows sanding is involved. The question is 3 times, or 1 time?


As many times as necessary to produce the end result one desires.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

finisher65 said:


> As many times necessary to produce the end result one desires.



Baaaaaaahhhhh.... wrong answer.

The correct answer is the number of times that is the most time and cost efficient that produces the result one desires. Taking 3 steps to achieve the same result you can in one step is the opposite of what this forum is trying to achieve.


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

finisher65 said:


> :thumbup1: Possession of mesh tape should be a felony.


NO it depends on what products it is being used with plus the proper type of tape.
Veneer plaster requires the use of the mesh tape, but it must be the correct mesh tape.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

ClarenceBauer said:


> NO it depends on what products it is being used with plus the proper type of tape.
> Veneer plaster requires the use of the mesh tape, but it must be the correct mesh tape.


Plaster repair is the only thing I keep it around for.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

jeffnc said:


> Baaaaaaahhhhh.... wrong answer.
> 
> The correct answer is the number of times that is the most time and cost efficient that produces the result one desires. Taking 3 steps to achieve the same result you can in one step is the opposite of what this forum is trying to achieve.


Not everyone can achieve the same results without sanding between coats. 
These are typically homeowners working on fairly small projects in their own homes so spending a little more time sanding to produce a better finishing job 
isn't harmful to them.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

finisher65 said:


> Not everyone can achieve the same results without sanding between coats.
> These are typically homeowners working on fairly small projects in their own homes so spending a little more time sanding to produce a better finishing job
> isn't harmful to them.



So what you're saying is that spending a little more time to get the compound laid down right to produce a better finishing job is harmful to them?


Getting back to your point, as it turns out it actually can be harmful to them. Drywall dust is gross stuff. You shouldn't breathe it in (good luck finding a drywall sanding mask at Home Depot these days), and it gets everywhere - even in the carpet to be kicked up and breathed in later. Even when you can't see it. Aside from the harm of breathing it in, you have extra work to either plastic off an area and set up fans and open windows, or do a cleanup job.

Believe me, it's less work to spend 10 or 15 minutes and put on the joint compound correctly with the proper size taping knife. Ideally you want 4 sizes: 3-4" to scoop the material out of the pail, a 6" to transfer it to with which you apply it to the wall, and an 8" and a 12" to put on the 2nd and 3rd coats respectively. By using the correct size knife, putting it on smoothly over a wide enough area becomes quite easy.


For small patches of up to 11" (smallest dimension), you can use the 12" knife to go over the entire inside section of the tape and you don't have to taper that area at all. For larger patches of 12" and up, you can use a level to spread the material in the inside section of the patch, again avoiding any tapering at all and getting a perfectly smooth, flat finish in that area.


Again, not difficult, just needs to be explained or shown with a video. Not rocket science, and the reason this forum exists.


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## finisher65 (Apr 7, 2019)

No Jeff, I'm not saying it's harmful to spend a little more time to get the mud spread correctly however you dont have 10 to 15 minutes. just a couple at best. 

Straw man arguments are old, as are putting words in peoples mouths & irrelevant arguments about insufficient dust control/ floor protection.
Protecting the worksite is a given. 

Scooping mud from the bucket to the pan, use a 4, or a 6, it varies. Pan to wall 10" knife for flats & butts not a 6. ?? You put the mud on the wall with the knife you spread it with. What's with this extra step ? (sarcasm)

Most pros tape inside corners with a 4 & finish with same. They tape flats & butts with a 6 & Finish with a 10" . You break out the 12" when the situation warrants.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

You can use as big a knife as you want to apply compound, 6" is a minimum and is fine for the first coat - the tape is only 2" wide after all. For a 16-20" wide butt joint - 8-10" on each side - a 12" knife works well to give you some overlap. But if you really want to feather the edge with almost no sanding required, you can use simple techniques. A lot of people use a trowel longer than a 12" knife.


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## mjhaston (Jul 15, 2012)

Mesh tape will have hairline cracks all over the place if you don't use a quick set (Durabond) type mud over top of it. I only ever use mesh when patching in plaster or large ugly spots and only use it with quick set.

I don't know what the "issues" are with paper tape as someone eluded. This issues with paper tape are using the taper.

It's probably not beginner worthy, but you can buy a banjo at HomeDepot and that will help to eliminate problem spots with paper tape. Just use the green lid mud to tape and make it semi "soupy". All other coats should be with the blue lid mud.


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## toddlimelight (May 9, 2020)

Is it possible to skim coat a ceiling and wall with semi-gloss paint already on it? I'm told that the paint can make the mud bubble?

Thanks in advance.


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## mjhaston (Jul 15, 2012)

toddlimelight said:


> Is it possible to skim coat a ceiling and wall with semi-gloss paint already on it? I'm told that the paint can make the mud bubble?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



You should probably start a new thread, but back in the day if I were going to skim the entire room that was already semi-gloss, I would prime the whole thing, then skim it. That gives the spackle something to bite to.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

toddlimelight said:


> Is it possible to skim coat a ceiling and wall with semi-gloss paint already on it? I'm told that the paint can make the mud bubble?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



If you do a decent sanding with 80 grit the j/c should adhere fine.


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## toddlimelight (May 9, 2020)

You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the posts. I've learned a lot in just these last few days than I have in years. Thank God for this site and YouTube. I'm obviously a DIY and I've done drywall jobs in whole rooms for myself, friends and family since 2002 and now realize that I was using the wrong tape, using the wrong joint compound (pre-mixed in bucket), and the wrong technique. I'm now re-thinking my whole approach. This is definitely an artform.


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

Check out VancouverCarpenter on Youtube. Jeffnc posted a video above. He's got a ton of how to drywall videos and he's a good teacher on why things are done a certain way.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mjhaston said:


> I don't know what the "issues" are with paper tape as someone eluded. This issues with paper tape are using the taper.



The issues alluded to are:
a) having to lay in a base coat before adding the tape
b) bubbles forming
c) sanding


For a), this is one reason they like mesh tape - it's self stick on the back, and it's open, so you just press it into place and mud over it. You don't have to mud first, that apply tape, then mud over it.


For b), if you don't lay it in correctly and use the proper amount of pressure, an air bubble can remain behind the paper. This is a real pain after it dries because it's a soft spot. It has to be cut out and more mud put in the spot.


For c), paper doesn't sand well - it just fuzzes up. So does mesh tape, but anyway theoretically you shouldn't be sanding down to the tape, but we all get high spots occasionally.


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