# What makes Sherwin-Williams & Benjamin Moore better paints?



## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

As a DIY'er/homeowner and non-professional, in the past I would just pick up the Behr/Valspar/whatever from the box store when I was there. Since joining this site, I see a lot of the experienced people and pros spreading the cheer of these two brands mainly (S-W & BM). What are the qualities of these paints that make them superior to the others? I don't mind paying for better materials, but I just like to know the "whys" of what makes them better when I'm paying 2x the price for them.

I have a new ~2600 ft² house being built that is close to being finished. I'm going to be buying a LOT of paint in the upcoming weeks.

On a side note, the Sherwin Williams store gave me a "contractor" account today when I was picking up my spray tip and trim paint. I felt like such a grown-up. :laughing:


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

You aren't necessarily paying a lot for them - it depends on the paint.

Don't think in terms of Sherwin Williams paint or Benjamin Moore paint. That would be like saying "What makes Chevrolet a good car?" There isn't a "Chevrolet car". There is a Chevette, and there is a Corvette. Those are actual cars.

SW and BM both make crappy, cheap paint. And they both make good, expensive paint.

One of the first things to look for in a better quality paint is the solids content and the dry film thickness. You can find this on the technical data sheets for each paint. There is more to it than that of course, but especially for wall paint this is a good place to start.

Here's an example. I'll let you figure out which one is junk and which one is quality. Look for mils thickness under Coverage.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777474068

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777440223


Most pros have accounts at the big paint stores like SW and BM, so are more familiar with those paints, and have much less experience with Home Depot/Lowes paints. Those have come a long way in the past 10 years or so and you can find quality paints there too. And crappy paints.


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## WallyB (Jul 2, 2006)

I have to say I've used a lot of both in building my current house. I lean towards Behr for rolling walls. I've used a lot of it (50+ gallons) and am happy with its performance so I've never found the need to change. It's rated very highly by Consumer Reports, and they tend to focus on the quality of the finished surface rather than ease of use, etc. 

Their trim paint has not impressed me, however, so I go with SW for that.

In many cases I find that contractors prefer products that allow faster work. Behr interior paint is very thick and I can't imagine spraying it. Of course I'm a homeowner, not someone trying to make a living painting. I don't worry about a job taking a few extra hours/days.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I will say the better SW and BM paints are expensive, and you really have to have a discount account there (sounds like you do) or wait til it goes on sale to make it really worthwhile.

The pro sprayers will spray thicker paints like Behr Ultra.

There are a lot of pros who hate Behr paint, but some of it is exaggerated, some of it is based on experiences from 20 years ago, and some of it is that you're just expected to hate home store paints if you're a pro. However I've had good results with Ultra (and their regular line is OK too). Even if you haven't used it you can tell from the spec sheets it has high solids content, thick dry film, and therefore high hiding and coverage. I haven't used Valspar much but I know some exterior house painters who tell me the top stuff is good quality now. Generally SW and BM have bigger budgets to research and advance their top paint lines, but then Emerald is $75 and Behr Ultra is $35 and I haven't met anyone yet who's raving about Emerald. Certainly SW and BM have wider ranging paint lines if you're looking for more specialty paints. Neither Behr nor Lowes make competing paints for things like Advance as far as I know (waterborne alkyds).


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks for the info Jeff. For some reason the first link doesn't work. Looking at their paints, most look to be 4 mils wet, 1.4- (mostly) 1.6 mils dry. I understand % solids plays in too. When I did my garage epoxy floor, I used a 100% solids epoxy.

Yeah reading around on here it seems most of the contractors use S-W or BM and scoff at the box store paints. I personally haven't had issues with Behr/Valspar etc. but I paint once every couple of years, not on a daily basis so I probably wouldn't know.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

The links aren't working for me either, which is weird since it's the exact address that shows up for that link.

Duration is 1.6 mils dry. The other (can't remember the name) is a cheapy and 1.0 mils. That's a good indicator of paint quality.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Dave,

I had little experience painting but on the advice here used SW (Super Paint) for my 1,430 sf house. After reading problems other people have with painting I have to say it couldn't have been easier and I think my walls look great, nice depth to the color, good coverage, no splatters, rolled on easily. I also used the brushes and rollers recommended.

SW gave me 30% for doing a whole house, but sometimes they have 35% and once a year a 40% off sale.

edit: added type of paint.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Startingover said:


> I had little experience painting but on the advice here used SW for my 1,430 sf house.


As I said previously, you haven't said which paint you used. SW is a paint company, not a paint. There is no such paint as "SW".


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

You know, I don't know if this is true, but, I suspect it is………I just think the CHEMISTRY of SW and BM is better. I guess that's a fancy way of saying the ingredients are just better. Better ingredients cost more so that's why SW & BM cost more.

Case in point: For one customer of mine, he insists on using Valspar's upper grade of paint, about $35 per gallon. Goes on nice, has a nice finish, and I really have no complaints with it until………someone rubs against the wall. Then the great finish begins to look like a chalk board. It burnishes like crazy. I've never had burnishing issues with any of SW's paints but then again, I mostly use SuperPaint. That's (I guess) an example of the better chemistry I am talking about.


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## HighGlossPL38 (Nov 19, 2013)

Gymschu said:


> You know, I don't know if this is true, but, I suspect it is………I just think the CHEMISTRY of SW and BM is better. I guess that's a fancy way of saying the ingredients are just better. Better ingredients cost more so that's why SW & BM cost more.
> 
> Case in point: For one customer of mine, he insists on using Valspar's upper grade of paint, about $35 per gallon. Goes on nice, has a nice finish, and I really have no complaints with it until………someone rubs against the wall. Then the great finish begins to look like a chalk board. It burnishes like crazy. I've never had burnishing issues with any of SW's paints but then again, I mostly use SuperPaint. That's (I guess) an example of the better chemistry I am talking about.


I have to agree here. I use a awful lot of paint yearly. Pricing becomes important, of course. And many customers want price, price, price. I do pass on my price savings on the paint to the customer as best as I can. Lots of times with the discount I can get them to swing to my recommended paints. I work directly with the factory reps for both Sherwin Williams and Valspar. I have long standing commercial accounts with both, Sherwin Williams and Valspar/Lowes. I have to say, our Valspar Rep is one of the most knowledgeable people I have ever met.
I really try and talk all my customers into Sherwin Williams and Valspar products if I can. IMO, the SW Super Paint is top notch for exterior work. This is IMO as I say. And this is in my area of the country. With the crazy weather changes here, I can depend on Super Paint to hold up and look great for many years. Florida and Alaska may be very different. Valspar's Ultra Acrylic Latex has been a very good exterior paint for me, also.

I haven't had a lot of good results using ICI Paints lately. The ICI family of brands includes multiple coating names, with Glidden being the most recognized name among U.S. consumers. Glidden has several lines, with Evermore, Endurance and Spred being common.
This could change soon though with all the new federal regulations out there. What was once a great paint yesteryear may not be such a great paint today.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Gymschu said:


> You know, I don't know if this is true, but, I suspect it is………I just think the CHEMISTRY of SW and BM is better. I guess that's a fancy way of saying the ingredients are just better. Better ingredients cost more so that's why SW & BM cost more.


Yeah, but SW and BM _don't_ cost more necessarily. Only their expensive paints cost more. Their cheaper paints cost less.



Gymschu said:


> Case in point: For one customer of mine, he insists on using Valspar's upper grade of paint, about $35 per gallon. Goes on nice, has a nice finish, and I really have no complaints with it until………someone rubs against the wall. Then the great finish begins to look like a chalk board. It burnishes like crazy. I've never had burnishing issues with any of SW's paints but then again, I mostly use SuperPaint. That's (I guess) an example of the better chemistry I am talking about.


Well SuperPaint is probably around $45 gallon I think, so it better have better chemistry. Just like Valspar's $35 paint better have better chemistry than SW's $18 paint.

It's also very hard to compare because painting contractors get SW and BM paint at a discount compared to the retail consumers pay.

I'm not saying you're wrong - you might find apples to apples comparison where one paint is better than another. It just gets very tiring hearing people talk about "SW" paint, when such a thing doesn't exist.

If a SW chemist comes along and says they add anti-burnishing ingredients to every one of their paints, then I'll take it back :wink:


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

JackoD said:


> I really try and talk all my customers into Sherwin Williams products though if I can.


I'll bet you a hundred dollars you don't try to talk them into ProMar 700.

We are doing a big disservice to forum readers if we continue to talk about paint companies rather than paints.


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## HighGlossPL38 (Nov 19, 2013)

jeffnc said:


> I'll bet you a hundred dollars you don't try to talk them into ProMar 700.
> 
> We are doing a big disservice to forum readers if we continue to talk about paint companies rather than paints.


You are right, I never recommend any of the three ProMar series SW paints. Although I do use 200 a lot. I refuse to use 700.

Now the ProClassic, Super Paint and Duration is a different story, great paint I say, as is the better line of Benjamin Moore, like Regal Select, Impervo and Aura . What say you?


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

OK I tried to stay out of this, really I did.
I am fortunate in within 20 miles of me I have Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, Porter/PPG, Clark&Kensington, Color Place, Valspar, Olympic, Pratt & Lambert, and Behr. Oh and I guess Kilz. Let me go 1x1.
1. Sherwin Williams- I cannot say I have used all of their paints. I really like their upper end paints Super Paint, Cashmire, Ext. Duration, Really even ProMar 200. I hate some of their contractor grades.
2. Ben Moore- Really like most of their paints. Same as for SW some of their lower end paints leave something to be desired.
3. Porter/PPG- Have not used a lot of their paints. What I have used would be described as their better lines. Would like to try their Breakthough.
4. C&K- Was really pleasantly surprised thought it was a good paint with good coverage. 
5. Color Wheel- Garbage when SW made it, worse now that PPG has the contract.
6. Valspar- The one sold at the blue store is OK It is my understanding the have a better grade that Ace is going to replace Ben Moore and C&K with. have not used the new line.
7. Olympic One- Just used it a couple weeks ago, hated it, the coverage was really bad.
8. Pratt & Lambert Really good paint but pretty pricey.
9. The dreaded Behr and yes Jeff I have used every line of their paint except Marquee. In my opinion they are an OK paint not really a good paint but their are a lot worse out their. Their ext. paint really sucks it fades really bad. Again I am in Fla so the summer sun is brutal. I used to like their trim paint the ulra white and used it on trim in the gloss really liked the sheen. But on some homes I went back to later the sheen had faded to where it was like a satin.
10. Kilz paint I have not used. 
These opinions are based on my exp. If you wish me to elaborate on any left me know.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

JackoD said:


> Now the ProClassic, Super Paint and Duration is a different story, great paint I say, as is the better line of Benjamin Moore, like Regal Select, Impervo and Aura . What say you?


Of course. SuperPaint is probably my favorite paint (given my discount price) If I used Regal Select more often I might find it's equal to SuperPaint, because it's close. And I'm very happy to use Aura (except for the cost).

However if I tried Benjamin Moore Super Craft, and I based my opinion of BM on that paint, I'd be here cursing BM up and down the forum, because that is some real crap paint. I'd be a BM basher worse than some Behr bashers.

My main point is, as long as we are talking actual paints, and not paint companies, I am happy. We need to do the same when talking to DIYers.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> These opinions are based on my exp. If you wish me to elaborate on any left me know.


_This_ is how we need to be discussing paints on this here forum.


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## KD PAINTING (Nov 8, 2012)

The just make/formulate better quality paints overall...


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm still trying to understand why people seem to just love ben moore paint and got their hate on for behr. I've used super spec, regal, and arua lines and i do not like painting with it. i find the paint is like white school glue that gums up my brush and goes on very instantly. I've used behr ultra and premium plus. I find they seem to have almost the same characteristics at the ben moore lines i've used. very think goop and instant. Thick paint doesn't mean good paint. I've never used Sherwin williams paint there is no store here and i can't say good or bad. Here locally We have pittsburgh, para, valspar, dulux, and sico.
Pittsburgh- i've used speed hide, pure performance, manor hall, and timeless. 
speed hide seems kinda cheap and is the contractor grade. pure performance is decent paint for such a low price but seems to have bit of a chalky sheen to it. i really like manor hall very instant not to thick or thin i give them my thumbs up. timeless is also decent paint.
valspar- i've used the contractor grade and it seems really thin and poor covering. i've also used the signature and i find it has a really weird smell and my brush really drags.
para paints- i've used the ultra and the premium and they are good quality paints. i would recommend them but i do not like the store here locally. they give no discount, they never stock enough paint, i brought in a paint chip and told me to come back the next day to pick up the paint and they dont seem to friendly so i dont go there much.
sico paints i've used the cashmere and its good paint i'd recommend it.
dulux my favorite brand of paints. i've used the ultra, life master, and diamond collection.
ultra is a bit watery but seems to cover well. life master is very good paint. not to thick or thin. very well covering very good paint. and diamond is my very i use it on a regular basis i find it has the best covering best thickness and durability and long life is unbeatable.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Like I have said on here many, many times. If it works for you…….use it. If water mixed with food coloring makes your walls look great and your wife is happy, use it. If it's Behr, Valspar, SW, BM, Wal-Mart (Colorplace), doesn't matter as long as you are happy with its' performance.

Unfortunately for a pro, it is *consistency* that matters a whole lot because we need to know that the paint we use has to act the same all the time or else we go broke or hungry or both. That's why you get such divided comments on topics like this.


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## princelake (Feb 19, 2012)

talking paint brands with a bunch of different guys is like having the good old debate over whats better ford,dodge, and gm. nobody is going to win. one guy will be a ford guy another will be a dodge man and the other will be a gm nut and they all could be master mechanics. every brand has made something good and they have all made junk. take some for a test drive and see what you like best.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

That's true princelake. The problem comes when a bunch of Ford guys all get together in a forum and bully out anyone who says they like Chevy, to the point where DIYers coming here get an incorrect impression that only Ford is "allowed".


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Now this has nothing to do with the paint brands themselves, but, when was the last time you had a problem with your paint and you got a decent answer from someone at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Lowe's? At least at the professional paint stores that I frequent, I get answers to questions/problems that I may have. Does this happen at every SW or BM store? No, but for the most part, you have at least one employee that knows their stuff and can help you out.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Actually I've only ever had 1 real problem with paint itself after buying and applying, and that was at Sherwin Williams. They never got that paint right, and no one could figure out the problem. I am often disappointed with the level of knowledge the staff has about their paints, since I expect them to know a lot about their paints. However I have higher standards for them than at Home Depot so it's not a fair comparison. In general they do know more, but not by leaps and bounds.

I never buy paint at WalMart (I wouldn't expect their staff to know anything at all, but who knows.) I rarely buy paint at Lowes. When I buy at Home Depot, they're mostly competent, except for this one ridiculous episode:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/home-depot-behr-paint-experience-180428/


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

JeffNC, I have one of the very best SW stores in the nation. The mgr. has been there since 1978, the assistant since 1992, and most of the full timers have been there at least 5 years. There knowledge is unmatched as far as I am concerned. Problems arise as they always do, but, it's so nice to have them to fallback on to explain why something went wrong or to make it right as far as a return, etc. They even provide a FREE design consultation through the store with one of the full timers who is talented in interior design. I haven't had too many issues with HD or Lowe's…….just the occasional "wrong base used" scenario which produces some interesting colors!


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

That's another reason I don't like generalized Home Depot vs. Sherwin Williams type comparisons. So much depends on the competence of the individuals in each store. I have 1 SW store and 1 BM store close to me. It wouldn't be fair to judge SW and BM based on 1 store currently having a lame staff, and the other store having a real pro staff. It could change in 6 months time anyway given just one or two employee changes.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I would love to learn some design stuff. I have a whole house to paint and no idea where to start.

Gymschu - I take it you really like their drywall primer? Haha.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Dave88LX said:


> I would love to learn some design stuff. I have a whole house to paint and no idea where to start.
> 
> Gymschu - I take it you really like their drywall primer? Haha.


Dave, so many people on DIY ask what is a good drywall primer to buy so I just made it my profile pic for easy reference. :laughing:


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

For me, it's my local BM that stands out as the best. BM dealers are widely different from place to place, I have never been in another one that compared. I used them for about %50 of my materials last year. 

Anything industrial/specialty I prefer SW. I really like there DTM, and there industrial primers specifically. Though I don't normally use them for residential. 

And I don't mind to go to lowes for some things. 

In general, I think it's the perception that SW and BM are older more established paint manufactures. That they are more 'trusted' in the industry. There is an idea that there products are more researched perhaps, or have stood the test of time longer. And if there is a problem, its assumed that you could expect more help from them than a more diverse retailer. 
A lot of it is just brand recognition and loyalty.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I think a lot of it is from using a product that you have used for years. You know what to expect from that product line. When you open that can of paint you know what to expect, when you put that paint on the wall you know what it's going to look like. Have I had trouble with SW paint yes, but I knew immediately it wasn't right so I took it back. Or I have had my rep actually come to the job site, This won't happen at a box store. In fact when I first started use pro classic I hated it. Told my rep it was horrible paint, he asked me how I was applying it, when we got done found out it was me, not the paint. Again this service is lacking at the box store.
I feel Behr is an OK paint and it was really designed to be a DIY paint in both cost and quality. And it serves very well in that capacity. I have seen on this and other forums someone say I can make any paint look good, and most any painter should be able to do this. But I don't want to have to "make" it look good.
For most DIYers an OK paint job is good enough but if I'm getting paid for a paint job I want a WOW paint job. Therefore I will use the products that I know from experience will get me there. If you have a product or product line that you feel will get you there by all means use it and don't let anyone talk you into something else.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> I think a lot of it is from using a product that you have used for years. You know what to expect from that product line.


This goes for changes in the product line too. If you stick with one product line, it's easier to keep track of any changes they make to it and you have a point of reference to compare to. There are a lot of changes to paint lines. That's one reason you can't really listen to criticisms of paint formed 20 years ago - they no longer apply.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

You are correct nowadays paints are changing so fast it can be hard just keeping up with them. The last I heard BM is phasing out some of their lines.
I would like to start a tread on here that tells about new products and new tools and the such. But to be honest I'm afraid it would turn into a flaming war over brand names. Instead of saying I used Behr and it sucks, maybe I used Behr Ultra and it didn't cover well. Or did you know Titan is making a new tip for sprayers I used one and really liked it because. I think it would be good but we would have to police ourselves or the mods will shut it down. Would like some other opinions, including the mods.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

That would be great. If a mod could run it so that an opinion has to have a reason with it to keep the post. Also, how long ago the experience was so we know if it's likely to apply to the current formulation.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Ahhh, so, I have 6 gallons of Glidden "Interior Premium" paint that my wife picked out. Ah well, it was already half bought before I looked anything up. Ah well, it's a rental house and it's better than what was covering the walls before. :laughing:


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## rick harden (Feb 2, 2014)

*Sherwin Williams not so great*

I think Benjamin Moore is your best bet. Bought Sherwin Williams Duration for my shutters. After painting, I left the shutters inside for 2 weeks to dry. After those 2 weeks, paint was still a little tacky and handling it left fingerprint ridges in the paint. SW store says this is normal. Claims that 2 weeks of 77 degree temperatures is required in order to avoid this. Actually said that, if I paint a front door, it cannot be completely closed until it has 2 weeks of 77 degree temperature. Told me that if I paint outdoors in October here in southern Va, I can expect that the paint will be somewhat sticky until May. I know the salesman is an idiot, but I've never had this problem (tacky paint or idiot salesmen) with Benjamin Moore.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Agree salesman was an idiot. Really don't know what caused your problem, but have you used BM advance it's a pretty slow dryer too. They recommend 16 hours between coats.


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## rick harden (Feb 2, 2014)

*Thanks*

Thanks for that. One of the issues may be that, once I've painted an exterior surface, I generally don't touch it again except to recoat. Wouldn't notice the fingerprint or other handling issues. That's probably been true for the Benjamin Moore I've used over the years. Would have chalked the Sherwin Williams incident up to some sort of odd circumstance if not for the salesman's silly response.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Revisiting this thread since I'm close to getting some paint for the new house. S-W is having their 25% off sale right now so at least want to get enough to do the kids' bedrooms.

I've been reading around a bit and most people seem happy with the SuperPaint line. I have a 3 and 5 year old, with another on the way. With that said, which paint line and sheen would you recommend that would be durable and washable? Would it still be SuperPaint? Reading the below information, it sounds like the Duration may hold up to the antics of 3 kids (plus friends). What has your experience been?

*SuperPaint*
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...erringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/paint/

With SuperPaint® Interior Acrylic Latex, you'll enjoy the benefits of paint and primer for a fast, easy application. SuperPaint has excellent coverage, hide, durability, quick cleanup and easy touch-up which makes color changes a snap.

Why you will love it:

Paint & Primer in One.
Self-priming with excellent hide and durability
Rich, beautiful appearance and a lasting finish
Excellent scrubbability
Available in flat, satin and semi-gloss
Finishes:

Flat - This non-shiny finish is great for hiding surface imperfections because it deflects the light.
Satin - With its slight gloss, this finish offers the benefits of a richer look.
Semi-Gloss - This lustrous, durable finish is perfect for areas that get cleaned frequently.
Coverage: 350 - 400 sq ft/gal @ 4 mils wet; 1.6 mils dry
Volume Solids: 38 ± 2% 
Weight Solids: 53 ± 2% 
Weight per Gallon: 10.9 lb

*Duration*
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...erringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/paint/

With Duration Home® Interior Acrylic Latex paint, you'll enjoy excellent durability and washability for an active home. It is ideal for high traffic areas like kitchens and hallways and most stains wipe clean with water. Goes on smoothly and quickly and offers excellent hide.

Why you will love it:

Most stains wipe clean with water or mild soap
Resists color rub-off and less visible shine after washing
Anti-microbial agents inhibit the growth of mold and mildew on the paint surface
Ideal for high-traffic spaces
Available in matte, satin and semi-gloss sheens plus deep vivid accent colors
Finishes:

Matte - This flat finish is great for hiding surface imperfections, while its angular shine helps make walls smooth and washable.
Satin - With its slight gloss, this finish offers the benefits of a richer look.
Semi-Gloss - This lustrous, durable finish is perfect for areas that get cleaned frequently.
Coverage: 350 - 400 sq ft/gal @ 4 mils wet; 1.5 mils dry
Volume Solids: 39 ± 2% 
Weight Solids: 50 ± 2% 
Weight per Gallon: 10.5 lb


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Probably the sheen is more important than the paint, assuming a thick enough coating. Flat is not the way to go. The problem for me with SuperPaint is I just think Satin is too shiny for my taste. If you like Satin and you're happy with it, then it will be fine. If you prefer a flatter look, the the slight sheen of Duration Matte will be more to you liking. It is not a "flat finish" as advertised. Of course in the same sentence they say "angular shine". In other words, it's between flat and eggshell.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Part of the suckage of new construction is all the drywall imperfections, screw pops, corner cracks, and other things. These are things they will fix @ the 11-month mark. However, my wife is due in a week with #3, and wants this new baby's room painted *now*. I don't want to waste the money on good ($$) paint, nor do I want to deal with fixing it all myself right now.

I think what I'm going to do is use a cheaper paint right now (Behr PPU is $35/gal and has a decent reputation on here), and after everything is fixed, come over it with S-W Duration.

S-W doesn't have pricing online. Do they have anything comparable in the $35 range @ contractor pricing I should look at?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Behr PPU in Matte is your best bet, and I doubt you'll feel the need to recoat it later with SW.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

My biggest concern is being kid-friendly -- three kids 5-and-under. It will need a recoat regardless though after the builder fixes the drywall issues.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Sure, you may need to recoat it anyway, but not because the paint itself is not good enough. It will be easier to recoat with the exact same paint brand and color shade though, in that case.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Got you. Does matte have enough sheen to wipe down/clean easy?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I think so. But go with eggshell if you want to be sure. Or use 3 coats of flat or matte paint so you can scrub off some and still have plenty behind.

Think of it like this. Modern cars are finished with a clearcoat finish. It's very glossy and durable and easy to clean. In the old days, cars just had paint. When you "waxed" your car, you were really using a wax polish, which contained abrasives (that's what a polish is - when you waxed your red car, your pad would be red when you were done). So technically you were rubbing off some of your car's finish as you cleaned. Nowadays with the harder, shinier clearcoats, you can just wash your car and then apply a pure carnauba wax, without abrasives.

Wall paint is kind of like that. The flatter the paint, the thicker the coating needs to be because you're going to be scrubbing off a bit of paint when you scrub. The glossier the paint is, the easier it is to clean and the less paint you will scrub off.

If you like flat or matte, then put on an extra coat and expect to scrub a bit. For example you could cut in twice and roll 3 coats. If you prefer the sheen of eggshell anyway, then it's a no brainer - use eggshell (or satin).


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## 7.62 (Jul 20, 2011)

Why do it twice? Because you're in a hurry to paint and you think it will take too long to fix the drywall imperfections? You won't get around to repainting that room with good paint for years (when you are ready for a color change or whatever). Once you paint it, get the furniture and decorations up and baby in, it's over. 

It's likely the drywall repairs you are referencing won't take nearly as long as you think. Knock 'em out, get the paint you want and be done.

BTW you just missed SW's 30% off sale. At least in my area. Now they are having a 35% off bucket sale but that only applies to paint paraphernalia.

Edit: As far as the original Q of this thread goes, I think that SW and BM are better _in general_ because they simply invest more R&D money into their paint than big box stores. Their business rises and falls on the reputation of their paint. I'd be willing to bet that their top paint nerd chemists are paid more than that of Lowe's or HD's…or maybe even Duron's before SW bought them. The top paint nerds are attracted to and therefore work for BM, SW, PL, etc. So their top lines are generally top of the line for the industry. My $0.02.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Jeff - I'm not fond of the flat/matte look. At least not the ones that I've seen. They've always been traps for dirt etc. Maybe when the kids are older. Nice analogy with the cars though. I chose eggshell.

7.62 - *sigh*...I know you are right. Funny thing is the furniture is already placed in there so I need to move it anyways. At least it's just a crib and dresser for now. They did a crap job with the drywall - lots of screw pops, terrible seam feathering even on the taper joints, sanding with what appears to be 40 grit screens with nothing finer. A job so terrible in at least 4 houses I guess the drywall company has been fired. A lot of work I would just assume let the builder fix at the 11-month mark, mainly because I don't know what other issues will pop up after a season of weather changes. Maybe it's just me being lazy now.

I stopped by S-W today to grab a couple things and saw their 35% off sale, didn't even need to buy a bucket.  Their extension poles were on sale too so I picked up a Purdy 4-8' for $19 to go along with the 2-4' one I got before.

Starting Sunday through the start of April, they will be having a 30% off sale on paints, and the weekend of April 11th, paints will be 40% off.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I'd assume 7.62 is right in that sense - SW and BM certainly have more specialty types of paints (or just more lines of paints in general) than Behr or Valspar. Behr has basically 2 interior wall paints, whereas SW probably has about 10.


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## Quahaug (Feb 13, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> OK I tried to stay out of this, really I did.
> I am fortunate in within 20 miles of me I have Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, Porter/PPG, Clark&Kensington, Color Place, Valspar, Olympic, Pratt & Lambert, and Behr. Oh and I guess Kilz. Let me go 1x1.
> 1. Sherwin Williams- I cannot say I have used all of their paints. I really like their upper end paints Super Paint, Cashmire, Ext. Duration, Really even ProMar 200. I hate some of their contractor grades.
> 2. Ben Moore- Really like most of their paints. Same as for SW some of their lower end paints leave something to be desired.
> ...


Do you have a preference between Super Paint vs. Duration? I live in Florida just south of Saint Augustine, house is stucco and have been leaning toward either of those two paints. Thanks for your opinion.


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## PaulBarthel (Mar 28, 2014)

*Treating Lead and or Removing?*

If your dealing with Lead Paint in your old home you have other options to actually treat and or remove.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I've only used one type of paint so far, that I can remember what it is. Anything else I have used, was years ago and I don't remember.

Allen & Roth Valspar. Painted a room with it 2 weeks ago, and have no complaints so far. I don't have children or pets, so it should hold up just fine.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I have used a lot more super paint than duration. Super paint is my go to.


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## Ed Ferris (Mar 14, 2014)

*Solids pct. and film thicknesses*

Here are some statistics I've collected on the percent by weight of solids and the dry film thickness of several exterior paints, before tinting, water-base except SWP and flat sheen except where noted. 

Valspar Ultra 48% 1.7 mil
Valspar Duramax 58% 2.1 - 2.5 mil
Valspar Primer 53% 1.5 mil
Valspar Fence & Barn
24% 0.6 mil
Olympic Icon 48% 1.4 mil
Olympic One 55% 1.6 mil
SW A-100 52% 1.2 mil
SW Super 54% 1.6 mil
SW Resilience 57% 1.56 mil
SW Duration 52% 2.2 - 2.6 mil
SW Emerald 51% 2.1 - 2.5 mil gloss
SWP 66% 2.1 mil gloss
BM Ben 1.3 mil
BM Aura 2.1 - 2.9 mil
BM Moorlife 1.9 mil
BM Regal Select 2.3 mil
Porter Acri-Shield 50% 1.4 mil
Porter Permanizer 58% 2.2 - 3.1 mil
Porter Acri-Pro 52% 1.4 mil

The better paints in each line show more than 2 mil thickness. The percent solids don't seem to indicate quality, except that the Fence and Barn paint is evidently watered down by half. From these figures, there's nothing to choose between the top-line paints by brand. The cheapest
SW and Benjamin Moore are the two worst house paints in the list, again on the figures only.

I was unable to find the technical data for Glidden, Behr, or Color Place. I expect all the $25/gal. paints are nearly the same. I seem to have wasted five dollars in getting Valspar Ultra instead of Olympic One, though.

As for expertise, I've had the stupidest advice from the SW color desk at
their 800-number. In fact, I've had no useful advice from anybody. I've bought 23 samples in an attempt to find a good gold paint for a tall Victorian house. Funny how the chips don't come close to the actual color. More funny how SW can't match one of their own colors from 1981 (the date of Dr. Moss's _Century of Color_ with the SW brochure tipped-in).

Oh well, the authentic original color of the house was just as horrible as the wallpaper.

Don't expect to make a wonderful color scheme on your computer and be able to get paint to match.


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