# Opinions of Ideal push-in wire connectors



## thefamouscbc (Apr 20, 2009)

Bigplanz said:


> For the last 18 months or so I have used nothing but Ideal push-in connectors for wiring connections in J-boxes. They are much easier to install than wire nuts, and, IMO, better for a DIY project in that they are easy to inspect to make sure the wire is installed solidly. I have read up on them, and they use a different connection system than the infamous 'back-stabbed' receptacles. From what I have read, there have been no reports of problems with Ideal connectors. If there is such a report, please post a link because I couldn't find it.
> 
> Anyway, one concern that has been raised is that they 'may' not be up to high amp loads. This winter, I ran a 1500W space heater in the basement pretty much 12 hours a day. The circuit was one I ran and connected with Ideals. After the circuit had run for many hours, I opened the J-Box and put a ammeter clamp on the hot wire and got a reading of 14 amps on the circuit. The connectors were cool to the touch and looked exactly the same as the day I had put them in, six months before.
> 
> ...


Looks cool but I will never trust any push-in connector. I live and die by wire nuts. Good luck with them. I will keep my good ole tan wire nuts.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

thefamouscbc said:


> Looks cool but I will never trust any push-in connector. I live and die by wire nuts. Good luck with them. I will keep my good ole tan wire nuts.


I understand. I would not presume to give advice to a professional on this matter. However, I do know that our inspectors pass installations made with these because they are 'listed for the use' by UL For a DIY project (non-professional) I believe they are a better choice, in that to ensure the connection is solid, all you have to do is make sure you can see the copper wire in the clear area at the end of the connector. Our inspectors like them too, as they are easy to inspect. 

For what it's worth, a Master Electrician I know feels the same way as you, and will used only wire nuts.


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## thefamouscbc (Apr 20, 2009)

Bigplanz said:


> I understand. I would not presume to give advice to a professional on this matter. However, I do know that our inspectors pass installations made with these because they are 'listed for the use' by UL For a DIY project (non-professional) I believe they are a better choice, in that to ensure the connection is solid, all you have to do is make sure you can see the copper wire in the clear area at the end of the connector. Our inspectors like them too, as they are easy to inspect.
> 
> For what it's worth, a Master Electrician I know feels the same way as you, and will used only wire nuts.


Yeah I agree with you. My thing is with the newbie electricians who do not know how to push the wire all the way in. But with the nuts it is pretty easy to get the connection secure. I wasn't trying to berate you or anything. If done right it is a very secure connection. Sorry if I came off ill. I can get like that sometimes.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

thefamouscbc said:


> Yeah I agree with you. My thing is with the newbie electricians who do not know how to push the wire all the way in. But with the nuts it is pretty easy to get the connection secure. I wasn't trying to berate you or anything. If done right it is a very secure connection. Sorry if I came off ill. I can get like that sometimes.


Your post was fine. I didn't think you were rude at all. I understand your opinion completely. As I said, I would never presume to question the judgment of a professional concerning how they would do their work. Wire nuts are tried and true. Ideals are relatively new, and the back stabbed receptacles gave everyone a bad taste in their mouth about any sort of push in connection. I use Ideals because they work and I can't find any evidence that there has ever been a problem with them in the 'real world.' That's why I am sincere when I say I would like to see a link to a problem, because if I thought there was one i would be down in the basement replacing them ASAP with wire nuts. 

For what it's worth, I also like the plastic push in cable clamps. They work great!:wink:


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Here's another pic of the Ideal 'In-Sure'
http://www.efc-solutions.com/pdf/wireconnectors.pdf

They have been around a while, at least four years

Might be a good idea to pick some up

One area is where you come across a box where some handyman has cut the wires super short.

The Ideal 'In-Sure' should make an easier, faster connection where you can visually verify the contact


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## thegonagle (May 20, 2008)

I had no trouble pulling out a push-in connection in my dad's panel that was made with one of those things. It was about as easy as pulling out a push-in connection on, say, a 48 cent P&S single-pole toggle. Just to be safe, I threw it away and replaced it with a wire nut. When I see push-in connections, I think "lazy electrician." 

I'm not an electrician, but I am a perfectionist. It annoys me when I see some of the shortcuts some hired professionals make.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

thegonagle said:


> I had no trouble pulling out a push-in connection in my dad's panel that was made with one of those things. It was about as easy as pulling out a push-in connection on, say, a 48 cent P&S single-pole toggle. Just to be safe, I threw it away and replaced it with a wire nut. When I see push-in connections, I think "lazy electrician."
> 
> I'm not an electrician, but I am a perfectionist. It annoys me when I see some of the shortcuts some hired professionals make.


Wire can be pulled out of the connection. They are designed to resist a 'straight pull' but if you hold the connector, then twist the wire with wire pliers and pull at the same time the wire comes out easily. Quite ingenious.

I understand the opinion that they are somehow 'less than.' This opinion is widely shared with those in the profession. What I would like to find out is proof that they are. In my experience (admittedly limited) they have performed quite well, with zero problems of any kind that I have observed.

For what it is worth, I work in Codes and Regulations (not in electrical) and we (Metro Louisville) have approved these for years with no documented failures in any circuit, ever.


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## thegonagle (May 20, 2008)

Bigplanz said:


> Wire can be pulled out of the connection. They are designed to resist a 'straight pull' but if you hold the connector, then twist the wire with wire pliers and pull at the same time the wire comes out easily. Quite ingenious.


Yes, I had to twist it slightly. My impression was that it was a defect rather than something it was designed to do. It still doesn't make me want to like them more when I see them.

I suppose we'll see how they're still doing in another 20 years. Will they still be working as well as a 30 year old back-stabbed outlet or light switch? :wink:


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## A.W. Davis (Mar 24, 2007)

Ive been seeing these wire connectors more prevalant in Halo and other recessed can lights as well. We just cut them off and hard wire all our can lights.


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## williswires (Jul 21, 2008)

First time I used them, I noticed that the wires would turn inside the connector as I pushed it into the box. Looking inside the connector, the wires are now leaning to the left or right, depending on the way the wire is being stressed from outside the connector. That's not a good feeling for me. 

I use them for existing grounds that have been cut short, otherwise I use wirenuts.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

thegonagle said:


> I suppose we'll see how they're still doing in another 20 years. Will they still be working as well as a 30 year old back-stabbed outlet or light switch? :wink:


I had the same concern when I first considered using them. I did a google search and read a spec sheet on the Ideal website and a UL document I found somewhere. The clamping mechanism is evidently of a different design than back stabbed receptacles. Those receptacles have a little slot you push a small screw driver in to release the wire. As I understand it, the Ideal design doesn't have springs in it. The wire will turn in the hole if you twist it, but the internal connection remains solid. Whatever the case, I understand the hesitation about having a possible loose connection. From what I have read, however, this is normal. 

One of the reasons I put an ammeter on a connection that fed a space heater was I wanted to see if the connection was warm. It wasn't. There was no evidence of heat, arcing or anything abnormal. If used properly, in a J-box, with strain relief on the cable I have no reservations about using them.


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Remember, the ideal 65 twister was approved by the ul. Just because the ul says its ok, doesn't mean it is. I'm not trying to say these are not solid connections, but I love wire nuts and will stay with them.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

i won't use 'backstabbed spring clip' outlets. found them loose too many times......
but i WILL use what i THOUGHT at first was 'spring clipped' until the wire fell back out and i realised that you had to screw the side screw tight to clamp the wire inside. 
twist/wirenut/tape still seems to me to be the most secure for JBs though.

DM


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

Who needs to tape their wirenuts?


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I DO!!! 
i tape all the outlets to cover the screws inside the boxes too....
it just makes me feel better.....

DM


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

I will tape outlets and switches mot of the time, but I don't think its necessary for nuts.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

probably not, but tell that to my OCD/paranoid/schitzophrenic/schitzo-affective alter ego.....

i am not!!!! stop telling people that stuff...

DM


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## rgsgww (Jul 5, 2008)

DangerMouse said:


> probably not, but tell that to my OCD/paranoid/schitzophrenic/schitzo-affective alter ego.....
> 
> i am not!!!! stop telling people that stuff...
> 
> DM



Dm...I did not know that....


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> Ive been seeing these wire connectors more prevalant in Halo and other recessed can lights as well. We just cut them off and hard wire all our can lights.


Wow. I LOVE the connectors built into the cans. Wham bam.

I/we still use wire nuts but I am getting really tired of twisting the damn things. My hands get cramp after a while. If I did more new construction, I would probably make the switch. In remodel/rework, we are always adding/relocating things. Wirenuts are easily reversible for rework and testing. When they come up with a push in connector that has a mechanism to simply pop it off, I will use it.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

220/221 said:


> .....My hands get cramp after a while........


 Same here. I've mostly switched to the Tan Ideals & tighten them up with a 5/16 nut driver.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

PaliBob said:


> Same here. I've mostly switched to the Tan Ideals & tighten them up with a 5/16 nut driver.


Those are my favorite wire nuts, when I used to use wire nuts. I still have some around, and they work really well. The Ideals seem less bulky and hold three or more wires in less space, IMO. I got tired of cramming wirenuts into tight, overhead, 4 square boxes.


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

I have seen a few of these in some recent installations. I even keep some of the 2-hole variety on hand for quick ballast changes. Real handy for that.

We have also used them to repair real short wires in an outlet box -- very useful for when the conductor breaks with little slack left to connect to your switch or outlet. 

While some here believe that these are inferior to using wire-nuts, I can tell you that I have seen many cases where wire nuts failed and were melted or burned to a crisp. 

OTOH, I have never seen any of these particular connectors burned out. :huh:

Time will tell, as they say. :whistling2:


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

I don't use them all the time. Most times it is as KB stated, short wires that can't be made up with a wire nut.
I love them in can lights.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> While some here believe that these are inferior to using wire-nuts, I can tell you that I have seen many cases where wire nuts failed and were melted or burned to a crisp.
> 
> OTOH, I have never seen any of these particular connectors burned out. :huh:
> 
> Time will tell, as they say. :whistling2:


Right. Time will tell. With the ubiquity of the Internet I would think there would be plenty of examples of failed push-in connectors that could be found, if, in fact, they tend to fail. Do a search on "stab in receptacles" and you can find plenty of examples. Lots of pictures of melted wire nuts too, but usually the wire nut isn't defective, it was just installed incorrectly or was subject to an excessively high current. I know that push-in connectors are widely used. Las Vegas hotels are full of them, not to mention just about every single new single or multi-family residential development built in the last 5 years. I have heard gripes about them, suspicions raised about them, etc. but I have yet to see one single example of where one failed. If someone can post a link to a failure, please do so.

Oh, I forgot to add.... push-in connectors are great for connecting new THHN to old BX conductors. I do most of my work in old houses and I have come across some awful wiring. What I do is use a push-in, two hole connector to splice a piece of modern THHN to the old wire. Then I am working only with new, good wire, and not disturbing the old, frayed, falling apart wire made in, oh, 1947. Here is what I found in my house. I ended up replacing this completely.


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## kbsparky (Sep 11, 2008)

Ditto on the number of failed back-stabbed switches and receptacles. I have lost count of `em.  

_Slater_ was the worst offender, followed by the old P&S devices. The new P&S devices are much more improved, so do not lump those in with those old pieces of junk that used to be installed 20 years ago.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> Ditto on the number of failed back-stabbed switches and receptacles. I have lost count of `em.
> 
> _Slater_ was the worst offender, followed by the old P&S devices. The new P&S devices are much more improved, so do not lump those in with those old pieces of junk that used to be installed 20 years ago.


The back stabbed devices today are supposedly much improved, and rated only for 14 gauge wire. I have never used back stabbing, and pay a little more for the back wired (screw down with side screws after pushing the wire in the back, like a GFCI). The back wired devices seem the best to me. Now THAT is a solid connection. I can't imagine it coming loose.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

Interesting thread. I too have been using the Ideal push ins for about two years, easy to use, and they seem pretty solid. But just to be sure, I always tape the connection, at least once around the Ideal push in and a couple times around the wires. Call me paranoid, but as in a previous post, I don't lose any sleep over having defense in depth on an electrical connection. And yes, I had a loose neutral due to a back stabbed plug, very unhappy experience, I still don't trust back stabbed outlets, even if they claim to be improved.


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## joel v. (Jan 26, 2009)

Taping wire nuts serves no purpose whatsoever. I personally do not trust the push tabs. THE screws are better and tighter


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## RegeSullivan (Dec 8, 2006)

I remember in the 60's my grandfather teaching me to solder wiring in a jb because he did not trust wire nuts... and he was sure Romex was a fire hazard. Hmmm...

Rege


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## handyman78 (Dec 29, 2007)

To me this is a similar argument to the plumbing problems using plastic pipe vs. copper. Not too long ago the only fresh water piping a plumber would use was copper- often they would bad mouth anything else. Now after repeated successes with pex, this seems as if it is becoming the new standard in many homes. I'm not saying other flex pipes didn't have their problems which they did, but there is such a thing as progress. I was never a proponent to backstabbed receptacles but enjoy the back wired ones (with screw down clamps). I'm sure over time and refinements the push-in connectors will be accepted by newer electricians- much like newer plumbers installing 4" pvc DWV over oakum and lead sealed cast iron drain lines!


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

Can someone explain to me why the push in substitutes for wire nuts work better than back stab connections for switches and receptacles? I have dissected some of each and the innards looked the same. The wire goes down a plastic channel touches a brass strip on one side connected (bonded) to the rest of the device and a spring strip at an angle coming from the other side of the channel holds the wire supposedly in good contact. (The items were not Ideal brand so maybe that is the difference.)

Now I am not condemning them; I just don't use them myself.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

AllanJ said:


> Can someone explain to me why the push in substitutes for wire nuts work better than back stab connections for switches and receptacles? I have dissected some of each and the innards looked the same. The wire goes down a plastic channel touches a brass strip on one side connected (bonded) to the rest of the device and a spring strip at an angle coing from the other side of the channel holds the wire supposedly in good contact. (The items were not Ideal brand so maybe that is the difference.)
> 
> Now I am not condemning them; I just don't use them myself.


Thanks for the drawing. It got me thinking, "Well, just how do these things work?" In the interests of science, I sacrificed one of my Ideals to find out what made it tick. First, I put a piece of 12 gauge wire in one of the slots, then cut off the plastic casing with a dremel and cut-off wheel. Inside is a square made of two pieces of dissimilar metal. It looks like one piece is copper and the other is steel. The pieces are interconnected in such a way that a constant pressure is maintained by the copper piece on the steel piece. When you push a wire into the hole, it slides between the two pieces, thus establishing a connection to the other wires through the copper piece. There aren't any 'springs' of any kind, just passive pressure from one piece of metal on the other under tension from the way it is fabricated and covered with the plastic shell. The device resists 'straight pull' because the copper plate under tension 'digs into' the wire. If you twist the wire, however, it turns the wire into a self-cutting screw, transfers the force as a twisting motion that 'screws the wire' out of the device. Very interesting how it works.

I will post some pictures to illustrate.

First, a side view of the connector before I cut it open. You can clearly see the copper plate under tension, the steel plate (on the right) and the copper wire pinched between them.

Picture two and three show the connector after I cut the plastic shell off. You can see the copper is interlocked with the steel, to keep the copper under constant tension.

Finally, picture four shows the two pieces of metal separated from one another.

All in all a very ingenious device.


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

AllanJ said:


> Can someone explain to me why the push in substitutes for wire nuts work better than back stab connections for switches and receptacles? I have dissected some of each and the innards looked the same. The wire goes down a plastic channel touches a brass strip on one side connected (bonded) to the rest of the device and a spring strip at an angle coing from the other side of the channel holds the wire supposedly in good contact. (The items were not Ideal brand so maybe that is the difference.)
> 
> Now I am not condemning them; I just don't use them myself.


I can only give you my theory, so here it is!
The back stabs on receptacles move around when something is pluggeg and unplugged from the receptacle.
Over time this causes the spring to lose tension.
The wago connectors do not move one the circuit is in place, thus motion=longer, tighter connections.


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## SparkyParker (Jun 10, 2009)

*Ideal In-Sure push-in connectors work great !*

I have been an electrical contractor for 30+ years. For some reason my fellow electricians do not accept change. When I first started, I would hear stories from the old electricians who first saw a wirenut and didn't trust 'em, and wouldn't use those new-fangled things. They would much rather soldier and tape, or crimp and tape the connections. After that, there were electricians around who would only use the 3-M scotch-lok wirenut, because they were the first and only popular wirenut. They wouldn't be caught dead using an Ideal or any other wirenut, although they were an improvement over the Scoth-lok wirenut. The Scoth-lok was a pain to use, and God help you, if you ever had to remove a Scotch-Lok. But they weren't going to change. 

I notice this stubborness in electricians when it comes to new and better tools or materials. They don't like 'em. They are going to stick with the old way of doing things. 

I have been using exclusively the Ideal In-Sure push-ins on my #12 and smaller solid wire since they first came out, quite a few years ago. They cannot be compared to the stab-in switch or receptacle. Thay are a completely different design. When disconnecting, they will not pull out. They are designed to twist out. They are designed to carry the feed-thru load. I have not had a single call-back, or a single problem with one. Of course you have to know what you're doing. You have to know what you're doing when you install a wirenut as well. I constantly run into problems with wirenuts and loose connections that someone did not install properly.

Ideal push-ins take up less room in a box, they are much quicker, simpler, and safer, especially when working on hot circuits. 

I know, I sound like a salesman.
No, I don't work for Ideal.
Remember Ideal sells a lot more wirenuts.


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

I don't use them exclusively but the ideal's and the Wago's are great products and are very easy and convenient to use. I often suggest them to DIYers for their projects due to their ease of use. Wire nuts are great but they're not a guaranteed good connection...Good installation of a conventional wire nut is reliant on good methods that many DIYers (and even the occasional electrician) do not necessarily employ.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

I think they are crap. I feel like after a tiny bit of oxidization or corrosion or whatever it will be a high resistance connection. Not enough surface contact. I only use them on flouresents since they will probably have the ballast changed in 10 years anyway. I also don't trust wirenuts. I twist every connection with my linemans and use a wire nut to protect it


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

Also I think you guys are nuts for using them on recessed cans. If a connection gives up somebody is opening up sheetrock


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## RegeSullivan (Dec 8, 2006)

Jimmy21,

I am not sure why you would need to open up the drywall. All the cans I have worked with are accessible when you remove the bulb and drop the housing. Are there cans that will not allow access?

Rege


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## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

jimmy21 said:


> Also I think you guys are nuts for using them on recessed cans.


Sure are a lot of "nuts" people around then Jimmy...They work just fine. :huh: Most cans' makeup boxes have covers on both sides because they can be accessed via removal of the housing.


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## ScottR (Oct 6, 2008)

jimmy21 said:


> Also I think you guys are nuts for using them on recessed cans. If a connection gives up somebody is opening up sheetrock


The first time I used 'em was on some remodel cans in my kitchen (they came pre-attached to the leads from Halo). I didn't like the looseness of the wire in the connector, nor the low surface area contact between the conducting parts. I used them because, well, they're easy, and they're only carrying ~40-160W each. If only they made a vampire tap version, we wouldn't even need to strip the insulation! :no:

And if they fail I just need to pop out four clips and I've got easy access to the jbox.

All my other connections I twist with pliers, cut, and then cap only after the physical connection is good. I'm obv. not an electrician, but I've been a computer/network guy all my life and IME a connection that's not physically stable is a connection that's going to cause a problem in the future.

Can't stand old receptacles where the socket has no holding force, either.


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

RegeSullivan said:


> Jimmy21,
> 
> I am not sure why you would need to open up the drywall. All the cans I have worked with are accessible when you remove the bulb and drop the housing. Are there cans that will not allow access?
> 
> Rege


On most of the commercial cans I've used you can get acess. But not on the cheap 5 dollar residential ones I've used. Unless I'm using something. Either way twisted wires with a wire nut is the only way to go.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

As far for Ideal push on wire connector that verison is very common used in Europe and have not much issue with them as long you done it right.

{ I have quite few used in France so I am famuair with it }

Merci,Marc


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## TGMcCallie (Nov 12, 2011)

Bigplanz said:


> For the last 18 months or so I have used nothing but Ideal push-in connectors for wiring connections in J-boxes. They are much easier to install than wire nuts, and, IMO, better for a DIY project in that they are easy to inspect to make sure the wire is installed solidly. I have read up on them, and they use a different connection system than the infamous 'back-stabbed' receptacles. From what I have read, there have been no reports of problems with Ideal connectors. If there is such a report, please post a link because I couldn't find it.
> 
> Anyway, one concern that has been raised is that they 'may' not be up to high amp loads. This winter, I ran a 1500W space heater in the basement pretty much 12 hours a day. The circuit was one I ran and connected with Ideals. After the circuit had run for many hours, I opened the J-Box and put a ammeter clamp on the hot wire and got a reading of 14 amps on the circuit. The connectors were cool to the touch and looked exactly the same as the day I had put them in, six months before.
> 
> ...


I just found these during a browsing at Home Depot. The package says you can use them on stranded wire. Some posts say you can't. 
I want to use them on #12 Stranded wire. Is this possible and also advisable?

I can see where they will work fine on solid but wonder about stranded but if the stranded wire is twisted really good and #12, looks like it should push into these quite well.

Advise please.

Tom


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## mpoulton (Jul 23, 2009)

TGMcCallie said:


> I just found these during a browsing at Home Depot. The package says you can use them on stranded wire. Some posts say you can't.
> I want to use them on #12 Stranded wire. Is this possible and also advisable?
> 
> I can see where they will work fine on solid but wonder about stranded but if the stranded wire is twisted really good and #12, looks like it should push into these quite well.
> ...


This thread is from 2009. You would be better off starting a new thread. There have been several threads on this board about these connectors, but none about their use with stranded wire that I am aware of. Personally, I think they are good devices and will definitely continue to use them. I have never used them on stranded wire, but if the manufacturer's instructions say you can then the UL testing has been performed to verify it and they should be fine.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

TGMcCallie said:


> .....The package says you can use them on stranded wire.......


 Tom, I do not see that.
The 'Product Description' for the IDEAL 10-Piece Push-In Wire Connectors says: Use on bare copper wire


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

PaliBob said:


> Tom, I do not see that.
> The 'Product Description' for the IDEAL 10-Piece Push-In Wire Connectors says: Use on bare copper wire


That in itself would mean that you can use it on any type of bare copper wire, solid or stranded.

In the end, I wouldn't go with Home Depot's product description for anything. 

If you check with the manufacturer you'll see that they list stranded wire, the sizes you can use, and even the strand count. Here is an example: http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/specsheets/in-sure_push-in_32-34.pdf


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

In the past, I have only used Wago's when they come on high hats and when a wire in the box was too short. But I started using these all the time:










The straight thru design works PERFECT when doing services/panel upgrades and you need to extend the branch circuit conductors.


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## Thurman (Feb 9, 2009)

I have used the "Ideal" brand connectors for years with success. But--I have now found these connectors made by "WAGO" ( I am not affiliated with WAGO) and believe they are better than the Ideal for mainly these reasons: You lift the little orange part, insert your solid or stranded wiring, which does not need to be stripped, and close the little orange arm thingy. That simple. IF you need to remove any wiring you just lift that one orange arm thingy and the wiring is released. They are UL/FM approved. I first ran across these in an industrial setting where we would have to change machine components out often and started using them in my business.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The packaging from Ideal should have a list of acceptable sizes and materials that can be used with these connectors.


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> The packaging from Ideal should have a list of acceptable sizes and materials that can be used with these connectors.


I am looking at a package now and it does list stranded. It's pretty much the same as the link I posted above.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

The Ideal Push-in connectors do not list a use with stranded wire, unless tin banded.

http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/brochures/p-1608_in-sure_brochure.pdf


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> The Ideal Push-in connectors do not list a use with stranded wire, unless tin banded.
> 
> http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/brochures/p-1608_in-sure_brochure.pdf


That PDF is from 2006 and the model numbers are different than what you can buy today. 

If you check the link I posted above or look at the package of the current In-Sure push in wire connectors, you will see that they are rated for solid or stranded with no mention of them being tinned.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

That link was just copied from the Ideal website.


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

Jim Port said:


> That link was just copied from the Ideal website.


I understand, and as I said, the PDF you posted is 6 years old and those model connectors are not what you are buying today. 

The normal 2, 3, and 4 port connectors that are on the shelf today are models 32, 33, and 34. You can view them here:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=in-sure

Here is the PDF that I posted above that lists the connectors that you buy today: http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/specsheets/in-sure_push-in_32-34.pdf

As you can see, there in no requirement for the conductors to be tinned.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

NECHater said:


> I understand, and as I said, the PDF you posted is 6 years old and those model connectors are not what you are buying today.
> 
> The normal 2, 3, and 4 port connectors that are on the shelf today are models 32, 33, and 34. You can view them here:
> 
> ...


NECHater.,

I did double check my European verison specs what you posted and they do listed in soild and stranded conductors however they will mention what size the soild et stranded if you want a link for it let me know however let me warn ya that my link if you request it, it will be in French unless I find UK verison it should be simair to it.

Merci,
Marc


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## NECHater (Sep 1, 2012)

frenchelectrican said:


> NECHater.,
> 
> I did double check my European verison specs what you posted and they do listed in soild and stranded conductors however they will mention what size the soild et stranded if you want a link for it let me know however let me warn ya that my link if you request it, it will be in French unless I find UK verison it should be simair to it.


:bangin:


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## puttster (Apr 30, 2012)

Termite said:


> I don't use them exclusively but the ideal's and the Wago's are great products and are very easy and convenient to use. I often suggest them to DIYers for their projects due to their ease of use. Wire nuts are great but they're not a guaranteed good connection...Good installation of a conventional wire nut is reliant on good methods that many DIYers (and even the occasional electrician) do not necessarily employ.


 
Bigplanz thanks for introducing the topic and product. This is a forum for helping DIY ers - and you did.










puttster


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## idlplumb (Sep 2, 2012)

I like them, but only use the smaller versions for simple things like replacing fluorescent lighting ballasts and simple things of the sort where they don't see too much load.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Here is a Link to that IDEAL Butt Splice in Post #48


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

So it's been 5 years since this thread was created -- how are you guys liking them and how are they holding up?


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## jbfan (Jul 1, 2004)

Dave88LX said:


> So it's been 5 years since this thread was created -- how are you guys liking them and how are they holding up?


Still using them without any troubles.:thumbsup:


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

I just started using them... based on a recommendation from someone in here. They seem to work fine and sure have helped me out in some of the tight wiring boxes I have run into in an older apartment complex and motel. Needed to upgrade kitchen countertop receptacles to GFCI's. Replacing the old wirenuts with the ideal connector would give me just enough extra space.


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## chriswarneford (2 mo ago)

Bigplanz said:


> I understand. I would not presume to give advice to a professional on this matter. However, I do know that our inspectors pass installations made with these because they are 'listed for the use' by UL For a DIY project (non-professional) I believe they are a better choice, in that to ensure the connection is solid, all you have to do is make sure you can see the copper wire in the clear area at the end of the connector. Our inspectors like them too, as they are easy to inspect.
> 
> For what it's worth, a Master Electrician I know feels the same way as you, and will used only wire nuts.





Bigplanz said:


> For the last 18 months or so I have used nothing but Ideal push-in connectors for wiring connections in J-boxes. They are much easier to install than wire nuts, and, IMO, better for a DIY project in that they are easy to inspect to make sure the wire is installed solidly. I have read up on them, and they use a different connection system than the infamous 'back-stabbed' receptacles. From what I have read, there have been no reports of problems with Ideal connectors. If there is such a report, please post a link because I couldn't find it.
> 
> Anyway, one concern that has been raised is that they 'may' not be up to high amp loads. This winter, I ran a 1500W space heater in the basement pretty much 12 hours a day. The circuit was one I ran and connected with Ideals. After the circuit had run for many hours, I opened the J-Box and put a ammeter clamp on the hot wire and got a reading of 14 amps on the circuit. The connectors were cool to the touch and looked exactly the same as the day I had put them in, six months before.
> 
> ...


I have come across these in my nieces loft and was shocked in more ways than one. They were open not in a box or container of any kind and several popped out as I was connecting a camera feed. I think they present a fire risk if not in a box and are only suitable for lighting not heavy loads. Much prefer wire nuts and junction boxes as they are pressing the wires together making a better contact, guess i'm just too old.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

@chriswarneford You are responding to a 13 year old thread. It is best to leave them lie and start your own thread, referring back to the old ones if you like. You'll get more responses that way.


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