# Using Kilz on base flooring before new carpet?



## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

We are redoing the carpet in our living room and hallway due to our dog having a lot of accidents. He has since been trained better and we haven't had any issues. So we are about to rip up the carpet and put new down. However, I'm thinking we should put an odor blocking primer such as Kilz on the floor first. I have a few questions.

What do you think of this product? 

Do you think it would be necessary?

I see there are several types, I'm wondering which one we should use?

How are the fumes? Our house is pretty small and I am concerned about our son. We can do it after he goes to sleep and ventilate the house.. but i'm still concerned a bit. Should we leave or is it okay?

I see there is an odorless/low odor option of Kilz. Would this work for what we are trying to do?

How fast does it dry?

Is there something else you would recommend over this?

Thanks!


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Check out the enzyme products instead of Kilz. They destroy odors, Kilz just blocks it somewhat.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

We were told we would need to paint something like that over the floors? That.. or I'm seeing Zinsser BIN Shellac? I think it's called. We have used enzyme stuff.. and we want something to block the odors in the main floor.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

I think you're better off with one of the Zinsser products since "KILZ ORIGINAL is not recommended on flooring." (per Kilz directions). 

I think Zinsser Odor Killing Primer is a better choice than BIN Shellac. It specifies pet urine and low odor formula. 

Jaz


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

JazMan said:


> I think you're better off with one of the Zinsser products since "KILZ ORIGINAL is not recommended on flooring." (per Kilz directions).
> 
> I think Zinsser Odor Killing Primer is a better choice than BIN Shellac. It specifies pet urine and low odor formula.
> 
> Jaz


Thank you! I will look into that one.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

I just did a product search to see if anyone has it near me though.. and it's not finding any place. But that one does sound great.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Some people, including me, can still smell the urine after Kilz is used.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> Some people, including me, can still smell the urine after Kilz is used.


Is there anything else you would recommend?


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Change the plywood?


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> Change the plywood?


I don't think we can afford to do all of that right now.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

The shellac based BIN will not hold up to traffic. It is not recommended for floors at all but I have used it under carpet for the same reason you desire to. Over time with cleanings if it gets wet it will break loose.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

Colbyt said:


> The shellac based BIN will not hold up to traffic. It is not recommended for floors at all but I have used it under carpet for the same reason you desire to. Over time with cleanings if it gets wet it will break loose.


So, did it not work very well for you then? I'm not sure what would be best to use. The low odor kind sounds great.. but it's not offered around here from what I can see.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

Why is BIN still in the conversation? Why is KILZ still in the conversation? 

You said the following when I suggested Zinsser Odor Sealing Primer,


mhp8982 said:


> I just did a product search to see if anyone has it near me though.. and it's not finding any place. But that one does sound great.


If you live in the Indiana that is a US state, it should be easy to find. How about a zip code?

Jaz


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

JazMan said:


> Why is BIN still in the conversation? Why is KILZ still in the conversation?
> 
> You said the following when I suggested Zinsser Odor Sealing Primer,
> 
> ...


I think that option sounds great. But I can't find it in my area. I found the product on their website and did a search and it couldn't find any near me. My zip is 47304. We are going to go to a couple places in town tomorrow and see what we can find. But I couldn't find that at all when I searched online.. besides on the main company website.. not for sale.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

JazMan- We went all over town looking for that product today. We didn't find it. But we did find a Kilz Odorless and a Zinnser Odorless. They are both oil based. I have seen some reviews on the Kilz odorless where people used it under their carpet but can't find much on the Zinsser odorless. The guys at the stores all said either product would work to help with the odors. Many people say Zinsser is a better brand. But I can't find much on it. So it's just confusing. Do you think one of these would work for us?

Also- none of these products say they are recommended for flooring.. yet everyone.. including all the flooring companies we have spoke to have said we should use Kilz or something like it. I think it's okay when under new carpet from my understanding. It's not suppose to be used as an actual primer for the floor though. But I really don't know.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

JazMan said:


> Why is BIN still in the conversation?
> <snip>
> 
> Jaz



You got that name right?  When I search Blue, Orange or the web for "Zinsser Odor Sealing Primer" BIN or BIN2 is all that comes up.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

It's actually called "Odor Killing Primer".http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/odor-killing-primer

I selected this product because it seems to be the best for the purpose of blocking out pet urine, plus the product does not have a strong smell, which the OP wants.

One of the local specialty paint stores will have this or its equal.

Jaz


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

This is an old painter's trick...........mostly used in apartments where the renters had pets and of course they did their business on the carpets. Before replacing with new carpet we painted the floors with KILZ oil-based to seal in the odor. KILZ was used because it was cheap and did do the job. Now, having said all of that, the more effective product is BIN shellac. The downside to BIN is that it is pricey........about $42 compared to $15 or less for KILZ. 

PS Be sure to replace the carpet tack strips. A lot of times the urine odor gets down into those things and the new carpet ends up smelling like the old carpet.

PSS I like Jazman's recommendation for what is required in this situation. I was just giving an overview of what is normally done in handling the urine smell.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

JazMan said:


> It's actually called "Odor Killing Primer".http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/odor-killing-primer
> 
> I selected this product because it seems to be the best for the purpose of blocking out pet urine, plus the product does not have a strong smell, which the OP wants.
> 
> ...



Not sold in my area and BIN is still all that is on the first page of Google excluding the Zinsser product page.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

JazMan said:


> It's actually called "Odor Killing Primer".http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/odor-killing-primer
> 
> I selected this product because it seems to be the best for the purpose of blocking out pet urine, plus the product does not have a strong smell, which the OP wants.
> 
> ...


We went all over town and could not find that particular product. We did find Odorless Kilz and Odorless Zinsser- oil based. They claim to be lower odor.. and virtually the same product as the regular VOC type.. It seems like Zinsser is a better brand from everyone I have talked to.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

Gymschu said:


> This is an old painter's trick...........mostly used in apartments where the renters had pets and of course they did their business on the carpets. Before replacing with new carpet we painted the floors with KILZ oil-based to seal in the odor. KILZ was used because it was cheap and did do the job. Now, having said all of that, the more effective product is BIN shellac. The downside to BIN is that it is pricey........about $42 compared to $15 or less for KILZ.
> 
> PS Be sure to replace the carpet tack strips. A lot of times the urine odor gets down into those things and the new carpet ends up smelling like the old carpet.
> 
> PSS I like Jazman's recommendation for what is required in this situation. I was just giving an overview of what is normally done in handling the urine smell.


Could I use the spray can equivalent to the product I for the floors on the tack strips? We are actually having someone else lay the carpet. WE are just taking up the carpet and doing this part. I'm not sure if they are including new tack strips or not. I will have to ask.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

We use original Kilz and it works just fine under carpet. I cannot speak for any low odor version nor would I use any latex sealer for this. Keep in mind the urine can be in the wall and/or base trim in addition to the flooring, depending on the animal.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

Yeah.. i'm aware of that. We are going to replace the trim as well I think. We are using an oil based.. not latex. The low odor version is oil based just like the original.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

So we scheduled the carpet to be layed next Wednesday. Plenty of time to get it pulled up and stuff put down. We pulled up a small section of the carpet last night in the area we know is the worse from the dog. The spot where he likes to mark all the time. We found a pretty bad area underneath.. but as we moved outward.. the plywood subfloor is very dry and clean and doesn't smell at all. So I really think that spot is the culprit and the rest of the floor may be fine. So since it's such a small area, and it's pretty far away from my sons bedroom. We may buy some of the BIN stuff since everyone has said it's the very best.. and paint it over that spot and close surrounding area... then up the trim area and replace the trim. It will have nearly a week to cure.. and plenty of time to recoat if we need to. I sprayed it with some enzymes and put down some baking soda on it because the smell was so strong and it already smells better in here. We also pulled up the tack strip in that area. We will probably have them replace all of that anyway. But I'm thinking this isn't going to be as bad as we thought. There may be one other spot that needs the BIN... and I may rip up that section tonight to check. But I think the rest will be okay. 

If the rest of the subfloor smells fine and is dry and clean looking.. would you only spot treat? Or should I use the BIN on the spots and then the odorless/low odor stuff for good measure on the rest of the floor?


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

I would certainly cover a much larger spot but yes, I would be willing to spot treat if it appears the urine was only in one spot. I do like the idea that you have time to wait and see before the new carpet is installed, otherwise one does need to cover a larger area just to be safe.

If you do use BIN, keep in mind that it in itself is pretty stinky for a while so airflow is a good idea.


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

OK, so which BIN product do you plan to use?

You initially asked for a product that would block pet urine smells and one that has low odor cuz it's a small house and there's a child. Which BIN product claims that? 

The answer is NONE, unless I missed something. The best they claim is block "pet odor". There's a big difference between pet odor and urine smell. But I've never had a dog. 

Jaz


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> Or should I use the BIN on the spots and then the odorless/low odor stuff for good measure on the rest of the floor?


Sorry, missed that the first time I read that post. Why bother with the low odor stuff when you're talking about using the highest odor stuff there is first?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

To add, just because the label says low odor, well, trust me, there's still an odor and there are still VOC's being released as the product dries. In fact, those "odorless" fumes can actually cause more harm to you and your family than the high odor stuff. Just ventilate as best you can.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Probably be better to just take up that section of subfloor. Like I posted before, sometimes the smell comes back or some people can smell it anyway after it is covered. 
I can walk into a house and tell you if it is dog, cat or human urine that I smell, but I have worked on floors for 42 years. A cat smells the worst and a tomcat can spray the ceiling.


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Also, with enough volume of urine, the penetration can be such that both sides of the plywood need to be painted if you continue with that option.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

JazMan said:


> OK, so which BIN product do you plan to use?
> 
> You initially asked for a product that would block pet urine smells and one that has low odor cuz it's a small house and there's a child. Which BIN product claims that?
> 
> ...


Actually the regular BIN Shellac claims to block pet urine smells. But I know it's not low odor. But I would only be using it in a much smaller area... far away from my sons door at night. We can open the living room and kitchen windows and put fans on it to direct it out. I was concerned we would have to do the entire floor and hallway... and I didn't want to do that with the stronger stuff. I think this is much more manageable than I thought.. since I think I only need to do small section.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

stick\shift said:


> I would certainly cover a much larger spot but yes, I would be willing to spot treat if it appears the urine was only in one spot. I do like the idea that you have time to wait and see before the new carpet is installed, otherwise one does need to cover a larger area just to be safe.
> 
> If you do use BIN, keep in mind that it in itself is pretty stinky for a while so airflow is a good idea.


But wouldn't it be less stinky with a small section rather than the entire living room and hallway floor? I've heard the smell goes away pretty quickly. How long does it usually take?


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

stick\shift said:


> Sorry, missed that the first time I read that post. Why bother with the low odor stuff when you're talking about using the highest odor stuff there is first?


Well.. I mean for the rest of the floors that seem to be clean/stink free.. if you don' t think spot treating is enough. I didn't know if it should be done since it can kinda seep in and although those spots don't stink.. But if you think spot treating is enough, Then we can just do that with the BIN


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

I actually tried the regular BIN Shellac over the area that was the worst last night and it worked great. I really didn't think the smell was too strong. We did ventilate the room we were working on and turned on a few fans. I also wore a mask while doing it to help as well. But even when I took it off I didn't notice much of a smell. I was expecting a lot worse.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

Another question- So my dog (who is destroying my trust and is going to be crated more now) decided to pee on top of the area that we painted. I went to clean it immediately and some of the shellac stuff came off as I wiped it! Should I paint another layer on? Carpet is being laid on Wednesday. I understand it was dry, but probably not cured. The people at the paint store said it was fine to lay the carpet before it fully cures as long as it has about 24 hours or more to dry. Do you think this is okay as well? We can put more on tonight... then it would be like 36 hours probably when they put the carpet down. Can I use the spray can of the shellac on this small area? Or should I just get another quart?


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

> Should I paint another layer on?


Yes, it does not seal what it does not cover. Spray would be fine as long as you make sure you get a good layer; spray products tend to be thinned and therefore apply less material than one would with a brush.


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## mhp8982 (Sep 3, 2010)

stick\shift said:


> Yes, it does not seal what it does not cover. Spray would be fine as long as you make sure you get a good layer; spray products tend to be thinned and therefore apply less material than one would with a brush.


Thanks! I just bought a small pint sized can of it I found at the hardware store and painted it on. Even though it takes a little while to cure.. will it be okay by Wednesday morning to put the carpet over it?


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## stick\shift (Mar 23, 2015)

Yes, you should be fine to carpet over this tomorrow.


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