# Board and Batten wood siding



## Termite (Apr 13, 2008)

When you have horizontal butt joints, you absolutely need to flash them. Butting edges together without flashing is just asking for trouble.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

note to those that read this in the future.

google books is a great place to get info on board and batten.

Knucklez


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## skymaster (Jun 6, 2007)

"Z" flashing on horizontals and yes 45 the batten strips so water runs AWAY from the joint. Look at the job and "think like a raindrop" really :}


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2008)

when you install the board and batten siding I nail the right side let the left side float. install the next board about 1/8 to 1/4 gap. when the batten is applied nail to the left side of batten in to board and in the center bettween the two not in the left side of the first board installed, other wise when the board expands and contracts it will no split down the center. plus all the above that was stated from the other posts good luck.


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## Lansing (May 8, 2008)

I see where your from in Canada ...So go to the CMHC web site there and get more info on the steps you need to take...They have bookets and videos they sometimes loan out...

But you do need to remove that stucco down to the boards...See if any wood need replacing...I would use a 1" Blue SM insulation next , taping joints and if sealed right you will not need tyvec house wrap ?...next then start your battens as was talked about above...Flashing details will be important using this siding system as was stated here...

The tighter you make the house you will need watch your moisture levels and air quality issues inside the house...CMHC has info on that issue as well...

Good luck there...


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

thanks for the tips.

i will be going to monegan lumber in peterborough in the near future to speak with them about wood purchase and to ask as many questions as i can (i'm righting them down as i think of them). i'll post the Q&A's here when i have them.

here is another book that i read which was good, and echoes many of the comments already made in this thread,
"Fine Homebuilding on Exterior Finishing" 1993. i got this book from the local library.

i like the blue SM exterior siding idea. for my application, i think since i am removing existing vynl siding - and the existing stucco under that - thus exposing the original horizontal 1" thick 8" wide pine board sheathing.. i will probably opt to use DOW product *"Foam or Housewrap Over Non-Insulated Sheathing"*

http://building.dow.com/styrofoam/na/res-canada/applications/residing/index.htm

i imagine this is more expensive, and also adds problem of requiring your windows & doors & flashing to be built out. but even without the foam but with furring straps and 1" thick board & batten.. probably the windows & doors would have to be built out anyway don't you think?

another thing to learn.. how to extend window sill, flashing etc.


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## Lansing (May 8, 2008)

A friend of mine does a lot of siding jobs and has many different types and width J trims, etc that he uses to build out the areas around windows and doors when he uses SM on the house before siding it...I'm sure you can talk to the people that sell the siding for tips on this...

One thing he does is use tyvec over the SM as his air barrer but also to let the vinyl siding slide easier as it expands and moves back and forth in the cold and heat...See it sometimes mades a sound/noise as it touches the SM ...as it does this the tyvec wrap helps cut that sound out somehow...Well that's what he told me...if you were using vinyl siding it would be something to think about...

Best of luck on your project...


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

ok.. i'm like 99% confident the old stucco will be coming off.

is there an easy way to do this? or is it going to be a pain in the a$$ :yes:

Knucklez


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Hello knucklez

I start at the top and work my way down digging a Flat bar through the stucco with a hammer, once you reveal the sheathing under the wire lath you want to keep sliding (or hammering ) the bar under the lath and prying the lath and stucco away from the sheathing as you go. 
Then you could rent what is called a roof-eater which is used for removing roofing shingles , you will have more leverage with this tool.
good luck ! Bob


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

ok.. talked to the product reps.

interesting. if you use rigid foam, then the air gap between board and foam must be a full 1". think, that is one LARGE furring strip! 

they supply nails, recommend double hot dipped galvenized painted to same colour as wood.

let manufacturer paint the wood for you and they garuantee is for 15 years. they guarantee against wood rot for 50 years. also warrenty for free labour in the first 5 years if something goes wrong. so that's pretty impressive.

cape cod uses "lodgepole pine" only. research shows this to be a good all around choice.

two main suppliers in my region are maibec and cape cod. i don't know the difference between the two, they seem similar.

don't need to flash the 45 deg. cut, but you do need to nail it to the furring strip that must be under the joint.

you can use stainless still ring shank nails, but they are overkill and expensive. since they warrenty product with the double hot dipped galvenized, then that's good enough for me.

the nailing pattern was odd. for 10" wide, they recommended putting a nail at each end. i thought that would lead to wood split.. but they said the wood is kiln dried to 8% moisture so it won't split. what about seasonal changes? i think i need to confirm the nailing pattern....

note: using Google Sketchup to do your house measurements and dimensioning was really helpful.

hopefully wood will be here in august..


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Knucklez

They are correct, There product you state is kilned dried. plus they are going to paint the material. And the moisture content is 8% as you stated. Nailing on both sides will not have an effect on the board splitting because of the moisture content and the fact that the material is all ready protected with paint.
Here on the island we use rough sawn red cedar with a moisture content much higher, the material is green. so nailing both ends will cause the product to split when it starts to dry out. 
it sounds that you have found a very good manufacture, I would be very interasted in knowing what the cost would be for the material.
Thanks for the reply and good luck. BOB


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

ya, i have a really good feeling about the board & batten job. the manufacturer is "cape cod" you can probably google them. one difference between the chosen supplier of wood and other supplier "maibec" was that maibec uses black spruce wood which they have to cut the knotts out and so you end up getting shorter pieces.

i'm not too worried about hiding the nails under the batten (and run risk of splitting the wood through act of nailing so close to edge, or due to seasonal moisture changes) since the nails are coming colour matched. stainless steel nails (ended up getting these upgraded nails though its overkill). in fact 65 lbs of them just for the board & batten alone. 

for 1600 sq. ft home, fully detached two story.. was 2000 ft^2 of board & batten and just over 2000 linear feet of 1x3x10' furring strips. i also have a few hundred linear feet of 1x4 trim for windows and outside corners, some fishscale trim pieces for gables, a tonne more nails and custom colour(s) pre-stained and guaranteed for 15 yrs... price with taxes & delivery was $11K. 

i wonder how this cost stacks up to other exterior finishes?

i used free 3D drawing software called "google sketchup" to draw my house and dimension the house. its probably accurate to within 1". having never used the software before, it took me roughly 4 hours to do this task. but now i can use the model to do extra things design decks, pattio, garage etc. so was time well spent.

i have some questions about how to do trim for windows and such, but i'm not ready to ask them yet. however, if you check back to this thread over the next few weeks every now and again i'd really appreciate it if you could help out.

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

no mesh behind stucco. do you have some handy tips on how to remove exterio stucco from pine plank sheathing? 

i am thinking hammer and a cold chisel (as wide as i can buy)

Knucklez


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## skymaster (Jun 6, 2007)

Knucklez; If it comes to that get a rebilt Bosch rotary hammer sds type, put in the wide chisel bit and at least YOU arent beating urself to death. They work great. If ya goin that way let me know, i will hunt the site where i got mine, 7/8" drill size, same guran t as new and i believe i only paid about 120 bucks


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

oh yeah.. i should see what types of tools are availble for rent. i need a handsized jack hammer with extra wide spade bit.. if such a thing exists. knowing my luck with renoing this old house it will definately "come to that".

Knucklez


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

Knucklez I would be very interested on seeing a photo of your type of stucco. In all my years of remolding I have never come across stucco applied to wood sheathing with no wire lath or backer. I would be interested on how this never failed over the years. BOB


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i can do that. but the picture won't be availble until august probably. i'm just in the project planning stages. 

the sheathing is pine plank, each board is about 8" to 15" wide. the stucco is squished between the boards and is held in place like lathe & plaster (also with no mesh). this is just a guess because i have not removed any exterior vynle siding yet.. i just took a peak. i really need to investigate properly to say for sure.. again, in aug.

one project at a time.. remodeling the kitchen right now 

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

BOB.. quick question. i am going to wrap house with tyvek. no ridig foam. 

how many rolls of tyvek tape do i need? rough guess.. 

its 2 story home, about 2000 sq ft. of siding.

thanks


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

knuckelz 
there is a lot to consider when taping, You going to turn the corner or are you stopping at every corner and taping. How many doors and windows, Plus your over laps. You see what I'm getting at. The roll is 2" wide and is 165' long. the rolls are 9' wide and 150' long. also are you going to use shorter rolls. you ll have to do the math on this one. 
what ever you come up with just order one more you can always return it. Hope this helps. BOB.:wink:


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

a broken wide truck spring run over the grinding wheel to make it sharp is a good tool too. Then weld a handle to it to your liking. The heavier the handle(like solid rod) the more force it has,the less heavy the less arm tiring,,, after a while. biggest problem is operator error gouging the good wood


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## buletbob (May 9, 2008)

KNUCKELZ 
you say the stucco is pushed into gaps in the sheathing??? I would Strongly advise installing a ridged foam insulation over the existing sheathing to bridge the gaps.


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## 4just1don (Jun 13, 2008)

May I ask a stupid question here??

What issues or BAD things are you having with the vinyl siding?? Around here the vinyl is the chossen way to go for no paint,no maintance exterior. MOST houses here that are painted NEEDS painting,,and I cant imagine painting a 2 to 2-1/2 story on a ladder when I am 75-80 years old??

Just wondering?? thx for any tips-d-


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i do not know for sure yet if there is a mesh or not. i won't know until aug.. then i'll scramble for a solution 

vinyl siding doesn't last forever. and it needs to be pressure washed as maintenance which is not always easy on 2 story building. in my case, it is being replaced for two rasons
1) its too old.. cracking and falling off. i think it is 25 yrs at least.
2) it does not suit the style of the home.

vinyl siding is the 2nd worse siding you can get for astetics.. angle stone (fake stone veneer) is the worse. and those new homes that are half brick half vinyl is just weird. that's my opinion.

so.. i am left with a rehabilitation project. i choose board and batten because it matches the period style of the home, is relatively easy to install DIY (hopefully) and is affordable. 

wood siding is guaranteed for 15 yrs for the paint. then guaranteed for ANOTHER 15 years if it gets a second coat at the end of the first warrenty. so yes.. eventually someone will have to paint it. and if this involves old people and ladders then i suggest that person save up to pay someone else to do it.

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

wow.. "they don't build'm like they used to"...

under the vynle siding there was lath and plaster, complete with vertical strapping. and then i found the pine sheathing.

who ever heard of exterior lath and plaster? man. that must have been one heck of a job to put up!

to take it down was laborous, put a huge metal bar behind the lath and just pry it away from the house... while up on scaffolding. :wink:

had 6 people and only got half the house done today. unfortunatlly its supposed to rain tomorrow so.. project might drag out for a bit. a LOT of work preping a house for board and batton!

Knucklez


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## downhome (Aug 11, 2008)

Knucklez,

I am very much interested in your "B & B" project. The Mrs. & I are heading down the same path and we're in the learn and plan stage. Our project will be a less labor intensive than yours, though. (and thankfully  )

We built our home 18 years ago and in the fevered pitch to get it done we settled for vinyl siding. Ack. I truly dislike vinyl siding, regardless how "maintenance free" it might be. The board and batten will finish our home proper.

In the meantime, ours is a ranch style built into a hillside with the one story front level with the high ground and the back two story including the full walk out basement on the low side. The front and sides should not be
difficult. The back will require a bit more work. As it's a fairly straight forward ranch design it should not be much trouble at all.

Please keep us informed and post photos when you can! I look forward to them.

Good luck!

Chap


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i'll try to post advice from a DIY'er as i learn it 

i noticed (_after _taking down the vynel siding) that the old window trim is rounded at the top, rather than a standard box shape in conventional windows. how to do flashing on this? 

along the bottom of each wall i run a horizontal "skirt" board, for estetic reasons. but this means it must be with drip edge flashing (bought premade from HD). ok, all well & good. .. but .. my walls (after siding, insulation, lath & plaster were removed) sit almost 3" recessed! so.. you need one MONSTER piece of flashing so the water runs off the skirt board and down to the ground. they don't sell it like that. so what we have decided to do is a double drip edge. drip edge the cement lip.. then add skirt board and drip edge the top of the skirt board (as normal). 

also, look at your prefered nailing pattern. this is a very important decision based mostly on width of boards, but also how dry it is, how well it is sealed and what type of wood. now, count how many nails you need! your batton nails need to be longer.

goto manufacturer websites to learn more, someone who makes board & batton in YOUR REGION because they will be harvesting wood that grows locally.

finally, have your electrical meter disconnected while you do this work. you need a permit for this ($160 !!). local utility will do it though usually for free. the inspector only works on certain days and the utility needs TONNES of advance notice, so plan this out well because you will be without power while you work on the siding in that area!

Knucklez


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## downhome (Aug 11, 2008)

....sitting here groovin' to some Sgt. Peppers..... 

A few questions re: board and batten ......

1) How are you handling the lumber as far as sealant and stain or primer and paint goes?

***
I've seen blue sheathed foam/styrofoam insulation panels @ Lowes about a 1/4 thick. 

My thoughts here are ... I'll be using an under-layment of Tyvek and 3/4" furring strips for the B & B. There will be dead air space. I'll also be re-caulking the seams of the 4x8 sheets of original outer shell. 

2) Would it be a problem or a concern to add (staple) these 1/4" insulation panels in between the furring strips?

***

The sides and front of the home is one story. The back however, is two stories.

Does using two courses of B & B, one lower and one upper make sense? I don't think I want the expense and difficulty of finding full length lumber to do the back. 

3) Are there any caveats of running one lower vertical course, topping it with a horizontal header the height of the joist and then continuing with a 2nd and upper course of B & B? Of course the horizontal divider would have to flashed. Or I think it would have to be.....

Any thoughts? Appreciate your time.

Best to you!

Chap.


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

sealing the wood and painting it is probably the most difficult to do right and ensure it will last many seasons. 

i purchased my siding from a company that SPRAY coats the paint and guarantee's the finish for 15 years (and another 15yrs if you paint it after the 1st 15 year mark), and guarantee against wood rot for 50 yrs. 

they treat each knot with some sort of hardener (it bends nails if you try to nail into it!!). they kiln dry for a year, select 16ft long boards. the back of each piece of wood has two routed groves, maybe 1/2" each, that runs along the length of the board to allow air movement. its special process.. well worth the money!

the blue styrofoam is particular case because your 3/4" strapping will no longer be suitable, you need a full 1" air gap if you use exterior foam insulation. i don't know why, that's just the BB siding rep said.

defentaly do NOT staple in between the furring strip! that would create a continuous surface. this means NO air gap between the BB siding and the sheating (or in your case insulation). that's bad. that means no rain screen. you must have an air gap.

you wouldn't believe the necessary man power / labour / hours to prep & install. wow.. i WAY underestimated this job! (no wonder the quotes were so high!)

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

i ended up learning how to curve flashing drip edge above the windows. 

you take the straight aluminium an use tin snips to cut slots in it so it will bend. then use exterior caulking to seal it up.

Knucklez


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## downhome (Aug 11, 2008)

Knucklez said:


> the blue styrofoam is particular case because your 3/4" strapping will no longer be suitable, you need a full 1" air gap if you use exterior foam insulation. i don't know why, that's just the BB siding rep said.
> 
> defentaly do NOT staple in between the furring strip! that would create a continuous surface. this means NO air gap between the BB siding and the sheating (or in your case insulation). that's bad. that means no rain screen. you must have an air gap.
> 
> Knucklez


Ok .. .I'm confused.... which is not a stretch,... 

I'll be using 2x1 furring which is essentially not 1" thick, rather 3/4" thick. The blue foam insulation is 1/4" thick, which when stapled to the outer shell of the house, will leave 1/2" of air space between board and batten and insulation.

Is 1/2" air space a problem with board and batten? Am I missing something???? Now's the time to let me know!


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

you'll have to check with the manufacturer of your board and batton. 

for me, 1/2" gap would not be enough (when using exterior foam insulation) and would have voided my warranty.

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

this project is "intense". 

it is unbelievable how much the labour is to do board & batton. each board is measured, cut on a 22.5 angle, and fresh cut painted. then nailed using 2.5" stainless steel ring shanked nails. each batton is the same, but the nail is 3.5". 

i think i will be in at 1000 man hours to remove old siding removal (and cleanup), remove 2 porches, and then isntall just over 2000 sq ft. of house wrap, strapping, board & batton and trim.

the windows and doors take the longest amount of time, easly 10:1. just cutting around windows and doors, painting, caulking etc.

board & batton is a simple concept and anyone can do it. but it is VERY labour intense.

ps. you'll need a sliding compound miter saw.

Knucklez


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

the old siding, which consisted of vinyl siding and exterior lath and plaster, weighed in at just under 5 tonnes. big relief from the foundation!!

the concrete porch, after days of jack hammering, weighed in a just over 10 tonnes...


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## downhome (Aug 11, 2008)

Knucklez said:


> the old siding, which consisted of vinyl siding and exterior lath and plaster, weighed in at just under 5 tonnes. big relief from the foundation!!
> 
> the concrete porch, after days of jack hammering, weighed in a just over 10 tonnes...


That's some sweat equity Knucklez. You're a better man than I!

Still working out my insulation concerns.... :thumbsup:

Chap


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

it's sure been fun doing this project. have my uncles coming over (again!) and father'n law and my dad & wife helping this long weekend. thank goodness for friends & family! they may never read this post.. but THANKS 

we have had a LOT of gaulkers slowing down their cars, stopping on the side of the road, getting out, taking pictures, chatting with us. lots of people interested for sure. we even had the city bus stop outside the house and tell us it was "just striking". now that's motivating


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## downhome (Aug 11, 2008)

Any updates and/or photos there Knucklez?


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

well i'm finally done. $1200 in waste disposal fees & $800 in scaffolding rental fees later... 

note 1: buy your scaffolding and just sell it after. but don't buy the blue stuff from home depot, rather buy pro grade becaue it is MUCH easier to lift and menouvar. i had both on site, and i preffered the rented stuff.

note 2: use ring-shanked nails, stainless steel. these are HARD TO FIND so make sure you but them ahead of time in sufficient quantity (you'd be surprised how much you need).

note 3: to lift the scaffolding frames.. get a long piece of rope and tie a loop. then slip the loop around the scaffolding peg and through the ladder.. no need to tie tight. then lift or lower scaffolding. when done, simply slip the loop off the peg. easy squeezy. _See picture below_


now i must parge the foundation where the front/back decks used to be. put up some shutters and fix some flashing on the roof. all in all, this project was WAY more intense than i thought it would be, but very rewarding. 

totally a do-able project though, just lot 2 weeks of vacation and have someone else with you that entire time and hopefully some extras on the weekend. you can do it.


sorry no pictures of finished product (privacy concern)


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## johnaydan (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi,



Knucklez said:


> 1) can anyone recommend a good book or website?


Here is a website which can be useful http://www.larryshomedesigns.com contact the owner and get more professional advice.



Knucklez said:


> 2) should the stucco come off? or can i just hammer through it?


it is better if the stucco is taken off...


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

thx mate, but the project is already done.

all in all, it was one h%ll of a project.. i listed some helpful tips already..

now that its all over, we're really happy with the outcome. i mean, it looks better than we expected. some of the funnest parts have been meeting all our neighbours who come over to witness the work. stop and chat. cars slowing down to look etc. one neighbour said we're "a real asset to the community". 

on the other hand, our neighbours are selling their house now - guess they didn't like it. :huh:

time to get started the kitchen remodel (with concrete countertops) .. need to finish before christmas, wish me luck!. 

check it out here:

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=19987


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