# SW ProMar 200 Finishes



## wal81 (May 2, 2015)

I'm having the entire interior of my new house painted. I initially wanted to use BM Aura because I like the finish and the washability. 

My painter said he strongly prefers SW, and he usually uses the ProMar 200 Zero VOC paint. From what I can tell, this paint comes in a "low sheen eg-shel" and "low gloss eg-shel" finish that fall somewhere between flat and regular eggshell. Any thoughts on the washability and finish of this paint? 

Thanks!


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## CyrusR (Mar 16, 2015)

It's builder's grade paint, at least 4 rungs down from Sherwin-Williams' best and no where near Aura. You can buy better paint at the much-maligned box stores. Pro-Mar won't approach the durability, hiding, or cleanability of Aura. It's not meant to. It's ~$20 a gallon.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

+1 on what Cyrus said. ProMar 200 is good for what it does. It's lower end paint from SW commonly used by us contractors for apartment repaints and stuff like that. Perhaps your painter could upgrade to Cashmere or SuperPaint, both of which are better than ProMar 200.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

I would ditch that painter for sure


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

I just used it actually. Home owner already had it at there house(yay me) Would i do my home or recommend some 1 to do there home in it. Absolutely not. Couple reasons. Sheen even tho it is a lower sheen eggshell it just absorbs and flashes looks bad. No sealing properties at all. Take a damp cloth and run spot on the wall. After the 3-6 rub dye from paint will come off on the rag and leave a shiny spot. Not for houses IMO. If you want a a lower sheen paint to help hide any problem on the wall and just for that nice smooth finish look i would use, Aura from Benny Moore (to expensive for me for what it does) Diamond Matte From Dulux(my preferred) Cashmere from Sherwin(softer than both other paints). If these are out of your painters price range (thats a bad sign) Dulux LifeMasters Matte is just as good as cashmere if not better as its self priming. I paint for a living and any high end paint should not be a problem to your painter. He may not be priced on it as well as me or other but he should still be able to get and use it for cheaper than you your self could. Small tip when painting an entire house an extra 250 maximum for better paint everywhere is well worth your investment.

Paints 

Promar200 http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/promar-200-zero-voc-interior-latex/

Cashmere http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...r-paint-coatings/paint-coatings/&N=1488370885

Lifemasters http://www.dulux.ca/DIY/products/interior-paint/dulux-lifemaster

Diamond http://www.dulux.ca/DIY/products/interior-paint/dulux-diamond


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Comments are exaggerated. It's not "at least" 4 rungs down from their best, and it's not "lower end". It is a "builder grade" paint in the sense that it's in their contractor line, and not their homeowner line. But it's at the top of the ProMar line. There are a number of paints from SW that are lower end, the 2 most obvious being ProMar 400 and ProMar 700, but there are others.

Apartment repaints are more often done in 400, 700, Property Solutions, etc.

It's also definitely not $20 - at least not as a cost we can compare to other paints apples to apples. It obviously depends on what discount slot you're in. Any homeowner can go in the store and request it, and I'd guess it would cost somewhere in the low $30s.

I'm not really sure what SW's best is. According to them it's Emerald, but I've never used it, nor have I heard anything really great about it. If it's not all it's cracked up to be, then maybe Duration is SW's best. ProMar 200 is about 2 rungs down from that. Cashmere is sort of a "specialty" paint for those looking for a certain look.

Anyway, I'd call ProMar 200 a mid grade paint. There are better and worse available anywhere. It sounds like an average contractor paint, and I'm not at all surprised your painter is using it. I see contractors leaving behind cans of ProMar 400 and other worse SW paints all the time.

Of course if you want a paint upgrade, it's going to cost more than the original quote. Now if your contractor is unwilling to do _that_, then yes - look for another contractor. The only reason he should "strongly prefer it" is if he's worried about scaring you away with a higher price. If it's because he actually thinks it's better paint than Aura, then again - look for another contractor.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

wal81 said:


> From what I can tell, this paint comes in a "low sheen eg-shel" and "low gloss eg-shel" finish that fall somewhere between flat and regular eggshell.


And by the way, yeah - I don't know why paint companies do goofy things like this. It's too confusing.

The paint also comes in a regular eggshell, or should I say eg-shel. The sheens you mentioned are supposed lower sheens than regular eg-shel, but I've only used the flat and eg-shel. eg-shell seems standard eggshell sheen to me. One of the others must be like a matte, and who knows what the other is like.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I didn't realize it was considered that mediocre. Sherwin sure is proud of it. I sent a worker into an out of town store one day and they tried to charge her something like $43 for it. I called and got that cut down to the mid 30's. I think the actual retail is above $50. I don't use it much (obviously by my pricing) but when I have it seemed fine. Just regular middle of the road paint. 

Keeping with the vein of recent discussions, it has the same solids content as Cashmere. 

It seems likely that your painter feels comfortable using it, and perhaps gets a really good price. The way SW pricing works you can get really good pricing on a few products that you use a lot of. I use some of their industrial products often and can literally get them for half of retail. Never was a big fan of their regular paint, though I do like Emerald.

I wouldn't think it's a great idea to force a painter to use Aura paint if they aren't familiar or comfortable with it. The application properties of Aura are very different in many ways than most paints. The same technology that makes it a great paint, give it a pretty steep learning curve application wise. At least it was steep for me


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Strongly agree with JMay if your painter is not familiar with Aura you don't want him to use it. I have used a lot of ProMar200 and also consider it a good medium line paint. But if your expecting top line performance like Aura then ProMar is not for you. And to be honest the sheen thing will drive you nuts, even the paint companies can't agree on it.


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

First off, did your contractor give you a written proposal? If yes, did he specify what product he was going to use and the number of coats? If he did, then his bid was based on using *HIS* product choice. If you would prefer a different product, then be prepared to pay more if he feels comfortable using another product. If he is insistent on refusing to use Aura, you might consider finding another contractor. You’ll be saving yourself a bunch of headaches in the end. Don’t give him a reason to blame faults that may occur on the product you chose. Remember price is not always the smartest choice for choosing a contractor. 

And yes, Pro Mar 200 has been the most popular new home, builder’s grade paint SW has. That doesn’t make it better, just more popular with the contractors. It’s OK for the first paint job. It wouldn’t be my choice when painting my own home.


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## Queef (Jan 26, 2014)

Ive used a lot of PM200 with great results. It's a good paint to use if the budgets low....not far from SuperPaint's quality, although I prefer SuperPaint any day.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

Promar200 is mid grade for a premium contractors line. There are better and worse premium contractor paints out there. The biggest issue I run into with pm 200 is there are many painters in my area who "sell" a job on the Sherwin Williams name, charge 10% off that $50.99/gal retail price($45.89) then actually buy the 200 for $20/gal. Not all painters will do that but keep an eye out for it. They can't of course do that with Ben Moore most of the time. That being said, 200 is a good paint for it's designed purpose, but Aura is in a different league altogether. I would shop around for a different painter, he really shouldn't be doing residential repaints with 200.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

klaatu said:


> $50.99/gal retail price


Criminy, is that really the retail for P200?



klaatu said:


> There are better and worse premium contractor paints out there.


What are some of the better ones?



klaatu said:


> I would shop around for a different painter, he really shouldn't be doing residential repaints with 200.


Why not? I don't see what difference it makes if it's in a contractor or homeowner line.


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## Queef (Jan 26, 2014)

Pretty sure I get PM200 for like $25/gallon.....


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> Criminy, is that really the retail for P200?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 On line retail is $50.99. I have apartments buying it for $36 If the OP wants to PM me i will suggest some to him. I will not discuss this any longer with a hired troll. I should say to make sure the painters' pricing to the home owner should reflect in some way the use of promar200 over Aura. I for one would not be particularly happy to have a painter use a contractor grade paint even on my humble home.Especially if I desired a quality such as Aura.


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## CyrusR (Mar 16, 2015)

Sherwin pricing is a joke...

As a DIYer, I only buy there when there are "sales". Their monthly or even bi-weekly sales really make me cynical about their pricing. The fact that I can go buy PPG's more-or-less equivalent Speedhide line for around $30 a gallon (per conversation a few weeks ago with the store manager) as a nobody walking in off the street just makes me more cynical. 

By four rungs down Sherwin's quality ladder, I meant that there are at least four SW lines of house paint generally agreed to be of higher quality than PM 200, not that PM 200 is junk. It's an industry standard used in thousands of schools, hotels, and government buildings, one that other manufacturers keep comparing their products to. But it's not great, and someone who wants Aura doesn't want Pro-Mar, anymore than someone who wants prime dry-aged ribeye will be satisfied with choice sirloin instead. Choice sirloin isn't bad, it's better than Salisbury steak or dog food, but for someone who wants and can afford the ribeye at Morton's, it won't quite measure up.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

CyrusR said:


> Sherwin pricing is a joke...
> 
> As a DIYer, I only buy there when there are "sales". Their monthly or even bi-weekly sales really make me cynical about their pricing. The fact that I can go buy PPG's more-or-less equivalent Speedhide line for around $30 a gallon (per conversation a few weeks ago with the store manager) as a nobody walking in off the street just makes me more cynical.
> 
> By four rungs down Sherwin's quality ladder, I meant that there are at least four SW lines of house paint generally agreed to be of higher quality than PM 200, not that PM 200 is junk. It's an industry standard used in thousands of schools, hotels, and government buildings, one that other manufacturers keep comparing their products to. But it's not great, and someone who wants Aura doesn't want Pro-Mar, anymore than someone who wants prime dry-aged ribeye will be satisfied with choice sirloin instead. Choice sirloin isn't bad, it's better than Salisbury steak or dog food, but for someone who wants and can afford the ribeye at Morton's, it won't quite measure up.


 Exactly!


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

klaatu said:


> If the OP wants to PM me i will suggest some to him. I will not discuss this any longer with a hired troll.


lol at you, you clown.


Just for grins, who would you say hired me?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

CyrusR said:


> Sherwin pricing is a joke...
> 
> As a DIYer, I only buy there when there are "sales". Their monthly or even bi-weekly sales really make me cynical about their pricing.


I know, it's silly. The sales are so often and so much off that you just have to wonder what a homeowner thinks going in there.

I believe I just paid $26 for ProMar 200 last week. I can't believe it's really $51 retail, that's just crazy.

I kind of understand the contractor saying he wants to stick with SW, if that's the line he's familiar with. But I can't really understand him insisting on ProMar. It just doesn't make much sense. Even if it's a cost issue, a homeowner requesting Aura is certainly the type of customer to understand a price increase for higher grade paint.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> lol at you, you clown.
> 
> 
> Just for grins, who would you say hired me?


 yeah i'm a goof!


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## CyrusR (Mar 16, 2015)

jeffnc said:


> I know, it's silly. The sales are so often and so much off that you just have to wonder what a homeowner thinks going in there.


Speaking as one, it makes clear to me that the price is just there to pump up the perceived value of the product - mark it up, so you can mark it down. What else is a price that no one pays? I know they're not losing money on paint when they sell it for 30-40% off. Mentally, I just multiply the price of any SW paint or primer by .7 or .6 to get an estimate of its true value. I.e., the Superpaint they puff up as 50$ premium paint is really a $30-$35 dollar paint with a higher price tag. It costs me more to go to the BM dealer, but I don't feel like I've dealt with a bunch of hucksters when I do.



> I believe I just paid $26 for ProMar 200 last week. I can't believe it's really $51 retail, that's just crazy.


I believe you can buy SuperPaint for that without an account. The crazier part is that with a PaintPerks account, I get a discount on SuperPaint (if I wanted it), but not on ProMar. So I'd pay less for SuperPaint than PM. I just don't see why I'd buy either when I can get equivalents for less money every day. 

They're a huge company, so they must know their business, but when I look at them I see a sales strategy that seems positively sleazy, inexperienced staff that turns over like a restaurant, weak color palette, and solid, but not compelling offerings. Purdy? Nahhh. Duration? Whatever. Emerald? Meh. ProClassic? Well, maybe a little. Too bad, too. They're by far the most convenient paint store around.


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

CyrusR said:


> Speaking as one, it makes clear to me that the price is just there to pump up the perceived value of the product - mark it up, so you can mark it down. What else is a price that no one pays? I know they're not losing money on paint when they sell it for 30-40% off. Mentally, I just multiply the price of any SW paint or primer by .7 or .6 to get an estimate of its true value. I.e., the Superpaint they puff up as 50$ premium paint is really a $30-$35 dollar paint with a higher price tag. It costs me more to go to the BM dealer, but I don't feel like I've dealt with a bunch of hucksters when I do.
> 
> I believe you can buy SuperPaint for that without an account. The crazier part is that with a PaintPerks account, I get a discount on SuperPaint (if I wanted it), but not on ProMar. So I'd pay less for SuperPaint than PM. I just don't see why I'd buy either when I can get equivalents for less money every day.
> 
> They're a huge company, so they must know their business, but when I look at them I see a sales strategy that seems positively sleazy, inexperienced staff that turns over like a restaurant, weak color palette, and solid, but not compelling offerings. Purdy? Nahhh. Duration? Whatever. Emerald? Meh. ProClassic? Well, maybe a little. Too bad, too. They're by far the most convenient paint store around.


 Believe it or not, I have no argument with this statement at all. In fact, I am speechless. Pretty much sums up everything there is to know about SW.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

CyrusR said:


> Speaking as one, it makes clear to me that the price is just there to pump up the perceived value of the product - mark it up, so you can mark it down. What else is a price that no one pays? I know they're not losing money on paint when they sell it for 30-40% off.


Yeah.



CyrusR said:


> They're a huge company, so they must know their business...


Ya know, I used to say this about all companies, all the time. I've come to change my view. I think some companies do OK in spite of themselves. And sometimes companies are just one huge mass of good decisions, bad decisions, and neutral decisions, made somewhat randomly, with a whole lot of red tape and wheel spinning in the mean time.


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