# shed roof without ceiling joists



## mae-ling

2x6 ridge is what I would use.
If you are not puttin in any ceiling joists I would add gussets at the peak of the rafters, and really then you do not need the ridge board.
I would also use a double top plate for rigidity.

I know some may disagree but really you do not need much of a beam above the door. The rafter supports the roof in the center of the building so why not at the gable ends? Also the end will be covered with 3/8" plywood further strengthening it. A double 2x6 would more then do it.


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## mae-ling

If you want to gain height on your doors and still have a header, just put it up in the "attic" area so to speak.


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## 1985gt

I used a 2x8 but my rafters were 2x6. Plus when you notch out a 2x4 to rest on the top plate it doesn't leave much meat on the bone so to speak.


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## Homerepairguy

mae-ling said:


> 2x6 ridge is what I would use.
> If you are not puttin in any ceiling joists I would add gussets at the peak of the rafters, and really then you do not need the ridge board.
> I would also use a double top plate for rigidity.


I will be putting a structural ridge in to support the rafters. One vote for a 2x6 ridge. I'll also be installing 1x4 collar ties under the ridge to hold the rafters together.



> I know some may disagree but really you do not need much of a beam above the door. The rafter supports the roof in the center of the building so why not at the gable ends? Also the end will be covered with 3/8" plywood further strengthening it. A double 2x6 would more then do it.


I agree that a double 2x6 would be strong enough for the door header.

Thanks,
HRG


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## Homerepairguy

mae-ling said:


> If you want to gain height on your doors and still have a header, just put it up in the "attic" area so to speak.


Just made a quick calculation. The floor joists will be 2x6 with 3/4" plywood floor. The bottom of the walls will be 1/2' below the floor joists for a water drip edge. So if the header is under the top plate:

96" plywood wall height (minus the below)
00-1/2" drip edge
05-1/2" floor joists
00-3/4" floor
05-1/2" door header
01-1/2" top plate
--------
82.25" = ~6'-11" from top of floor to bottom of door header.

Allowing for a 2x4 under the door header, that would put the door height opening at 6'-9.5". Door height clearance of about 6'-8" will be fine so I'll put the door header under the top plate. That way the double 2x4's on the door sides will hold the header in the vertical orientation. (Two double 2x4's for door sides. Each double will have one 2x4 from bottom plate to top plate. One 2x4 supporting the header beam.)

Thanks,
HRG


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## mae-ling

Sounds good. The collar ties are a good idea.


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## Homerepairguy

1985gt said:


> I used a 2x8 but my rafters were 2x6. Plus when you notch out a 2x4 to rest on the top plate it doesn't leave much meat on the bone so to speak.


After thinking about it some more, I think I will use a 2x8 ridge like yours. Probably better for the 12' span.

Thanks,
HRG


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## MT Stringer

I built a shed identical to your specs in 2002. I made trusses w/no joists and no ridge board. Hurricane Ike came right over us. No damage. Not even a shingle missing.

I'll post a few pics tomorrow.


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> I built a shed identical to your specs in 2002. I made trusses w/no joists and no ridge board. Hurricane Ike came right over us. No damage. Not even a shingle missing.
> 
> I'll post a few pics tomorrow.


That would be fantastic MT Stringer. Very much looking forward to seeing your pictures. Please include the dimensions of your shed too.

Thanks!
HRG


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## MT Stringer

First, here are some pics of the real thing. It is 10 feet wide x 12 feet deep. 120 sq feet is the max the HOA would allow. It has a 5/12 pitch roof (same as my house). One other thing, the lowest part of the roof had to be lower than the house eve. Beats the heck out of me, but I made sure the final build was 1-2 inches lower, shorter, whatever.

My doors were made using 2x4 material for the framework with the same siding as the backing. I assembled the doors with pocket screw construction, then applied a liberal amount of liquid nails and attached the back with drywall screws. Next, I caulked all seams and cracks, and primed the doors and then gave them a good coat of paint.

The original doors weren't that well built, and the weather got to them. They only lasted 12 years. BTW, I used 72 inch piano hinges for the door hinges. And attached a storm flap to the inside of the left door to help keep the rain out.

The rest of the building looks good, except for the corner trim and fascia boards. They are on my list to replace also.

Now for the trusses. I built them on my driveway because I didn't have anything else to use. I used 1/2 inch plywood for the truss plates, glue and a lot of drywall screws (1 1/4 long). In later pics, you will see my diagram. I cut a filler block to sit under the rafter, and on top of the wall plate. No worries cutting the bird mouths. 

The shed sits on four 4x4x12 foot treated posts. Concrete blocks are underneath them. I used the standard T-111 siding which is about 3/8 inch thick. An attic vent was added to each end for ventilation.

Just recently when we had a flourish of warm weather, my sweetie and I built and installed the new doors. Then we started working on some new shelving to go along with the original stuff, some of which, we removed. We managed to create a lot of new storage space. Yeah, I know that is only a temporary fix. We will fill the building up again, I am sure of that! 

First, the existing structure. I will post my Sketchup drawings in a followup. I tried to recreate the building from memory.

Mike


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## MT Stringer

Here are some drawings. Note: I am still learning how to use Sketchup, so they may or may not be accurate!

Mike


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## MT Stringer

More details.

I have included some pics of the new shelving and storage racks.


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## MT Stringer

Last couple of pics.

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> First, here are some pics of the real thing. It is 10 feet wide x 12 feet deep. 120 sq feet is the max the HOA would allow. It has a 5/12 pitch roof (same as my house). One other thing, the lowest part of the roof had to be lower than the house eve. Beats the heck out of me, but I made sure the final build was 1-2 inches lower, shorter, whatever.
> 
> ..... snip .....
> 
> First, the existing structure. I will post my Sketchup drawings in a followup. I tried to recreate the building from memory.
> 
> Mike


Hey Mike,

Thanks so much for taking the time to post the pictures and even some sketchup drawings! You did a very nice job with Sketchup. I used Sketchup to design and then build a 7x12 foot shed for my son. But that one had ceiling joists which is why the shed I'm building for us now will not have ceiling joists for more storage space.

ROOF:
Counting the rafters in your Sketchup drawing, it appear that your rafters are 16" apart. Is that right? What thickness plywood did you use for the roof sheathing? Did you use 3 tab asphalt shingles on top?

I like your idea of using the triangular blocking under the rafters with the side plywood supports. That's the first time I've seen that idea in place of having seat cuts (birdsmouths). Excellent.

So without a structural ridge, the double top plates and the rafter top trusses are enough to prevent the side walls from bowing out? 

SHELF:
Your idea of building a shelf at top plate level on the back wall is very ingenious. It serves as a back shelf and also helps to tie the side walls together as a ceiling joist. It looks like that shelf is 16" wide, the span of the rafters. Is that right? I'm going to incorporate that idea into my shed for sure.

OTHERS:
There are other very good ideas in your shed that I'm going to use. I like the two 2x4s to hold the shovels and rakes. Thanks much for even providing dimensions on your drawings. 

All good stuff!
HRG


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## MT Stringer

I think my wall studs and rafters are actually 24 inches on center. I would have to go measure them. The roof deck is 1/2 inch CDX and regular 3 tab asphalt shingles.

We had a lot of damage to our house from Hurricane Ike. The wind blew off a lot of shingles which caused a lot of water damage in every room of the house except the kitchen. The insurance guy even commented on the shed - "there is no damage at all". 

I think the shelf at the rear of the building is about 24 inches deep. That is a 120 qt cooler sitting on it, along with tthe other stuff. We made the side shelving a little lower so we could get more space for storage containers. That worked out well.

The brackets for the shovels is nice, as is the rod rack made out of PVC pipe I had on hand. The rack for the folding chairs is also nice. All of that stuff had been on the floor in the way.

Good luck.
Mike


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## mae-ling

There you go, that is a great way to build the raftees. Sorta a truss without the bottom chord. The gussets on both sides at the top will do plenty for strength. Use adhesive on them as well as nailing. Using the stack framing method With the studs 24" OC and The rafters landing on top of the studs it is plenty strong.


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> I think my wall studs and rafters are actually 24 inches on center. I would have to go measure them. The roof deck is 1/2 inch CDX and regular 3 tab asphalt shingles.


Thanks for this additional info. 



> We had a lot of damage to our house from Hurricane Ike. The wind blew off a lot of shingles which caused a lot of water damage in every room of the house except the kitchen. The insurance guy even commented on the shed - "there is no damage at all".
> 
> I think the shelf at the rear of the building is about 24 inches deep. That is a 120 qt cooler sitting on it, along with tthe other stuff.


Thanks. Mine will be 24" deep also.



> We made the side shelving a little lower so we could get more space for storage containers. That worked out well.
> 
> The brackets for the shovels is nice, as is the rod rack made out of PVC pipe I had on hand. The rack for the folding chairs is also nice. All of that stuff had been on the floor in the way.
> 
> Good luck.
> Mike


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> First, here are some pics of the real thing.


Mike,

I'm designing my shed now in Sketchup. 


How high from the floor is the top of this shelf?
How do the horizontal 2x4s tie into the wall studs? Are they below the upper wall plates?
 Thanks,
HRG


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## MT Stringer

Homerepairguy said:


> Mike,
> 
> I'm designing my shed now in Sketchup.
> 
> 
> How high from the floor is the top of this shelf?
> How do the horizontal 2x4s tie into the wall studs? Are they below the upper wall plates?
> Thanks,
> HRG


That shelf frame is screwed to the top plate of the wall along the back and both sides. It spans the 10 foot width of the building. I didn't plan to put anything heavy up there so 2x4's seemed OK to me.

After constructing the rear shelf, we built two shelves (one for each side) that drop down a little so plastic tubs can be used for storage. One side holds the Christmas decorations. That made my sweetie happy. :thumbsup:

Here are a couple of pics. I had my assistant helping with the construction. :yes:


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## MT Stringer

Here are a few pics of ideas I had found on the internet. They could come in handy if you have a blank slate to work with.
Mike


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> That shelf frame is screwed to the top plate of the wall along the back and both sides. It spans the 10 foot width of the building. I didn't plan to put anything heavy up there so 2x4's seemed OK to me.
> 
> After constructing the rear shelf, we built two shelves (one for each side) that drop down a little so plastic tubs can be used for storage. One side holds the Christmas decorations. That made my sweetie happy. :thumbsup:
> 
> Here are a couple of pics. I had my assistant helping with the construction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :yes:


Thanks for the shelf info.

You have a nice helper. What is she drilling and what is the clamp for?

Thanks,
HRG


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> Here are a few pics of ideas I had found on the internet. They could come in handy if you have a blank slate to work with.
> 
> ..... pictures snipped to save bandwidth .....
> 
> Mike


Hey, thanks for the additional self ideas. Every bit helps :thumbsup:.

HRG


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## MT Stringer

Homerepairguy said:


> Thanks for the shelf info.
> 
> You have a nice helper. What is she drilling and what is the clamp for?
> 
> Thanks,
> HRG


She was driving 2 1/2 inch pocket screws. I made the frame for the shelf using pocket screws. She was attaching the cross members. With bad knees, I mostly watch and offer moral support! 

The clamp worked great to hold the cross member in place and flush with the mating piece.


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## Homerepairguy

MT Stringer said:


> She was driving 2 1/2 inch pocket screws. I made the frame for the shelf using pocket screws. She was attaching the cross members. With bad knees, I mostly watch and offer moral support!
> 
> The clamp worked great to hold the cross member in place and flush with the mating piece.


Ahhh, got it. Smart man faking bad knees :whistling2:.

Thanks,
HRG


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