# Extending Range Of Stove Electrical - bad idea?



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

> Can anyone see any problems with this idea? .. other than It may not meet code?


Isn't that enough?


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

you'll be hard pressed to get an answer to that one here.....we're usually in the business of telling people how to do things the right way. Run a new wire and save yourself the trouble, or open up the wall remove the staples and move the old wire.


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

It may meet code I dunno.... Does it? I have heard mixed reviews about this topic.


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

Do you have a basement underneath this? If so, it would probably be easy to find the cable and cut it (since it's stapled up in the wall), then put a box down there and extend it to the new location.


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

Proby said:


> Do you have a basement underneath this? If so, it would probably be easy to find the cable and cut it (since it's stapled up in the wall), then put a box down there and extend it to the new location.


Yes the basement below the kitchen is a crawl space... funny thing is the wire for the stove comes DOWN from somewhere higher up in the wall... it doesn't come up from the basement (I wish.... I have checked many of times searching for that damn cable hoping it was there, it definatley drops from above and likely cuts over at some point to the left towards the breaker box ). My house is a side split so it makes things confusing. (Especially draining water from lower level to a higher level)


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## andrew79 (Mar 25, 2010)

well your not allowed to hardwire a stove....period, unless it's designed to be hardwired. by cutting off the cord you void the standards approval in whatever area your in. cutting the wire in the basement and doing a joint there is definately the best option if your dead set against running a new wire.

or attic apparently


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

I would check the attic for the cable, maybe you can splice it up there.

The cable might come thru the wall the entire run, I've seen it before when the panel isn't very far from the device.

If you can't find the cable, you are going to have to run a new one. This shouldn't be too hard since you have the crawlspace.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

When you are done, what is going to be where the current plug is? If it's going to be hidden by the fridge, or cabinets, you may as well just cut the drywall and fish the wire to the new location, and do a quick patch job, not like anyone will see it anyway.


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

I know but the basement is a crawl space... theres no electrical there at all.... or plumbing for that matter. I don't see a difference in installing a junction box behind my counter and running the cable to the stove, or installing a junction box in the basement and running to the stove. Its the same thing no? just different location of junction box. All Wiring runs through the walls Above kitchen counter level (because house is side split the kitchen and living room are on a lower level than the junction box on the other side of the house..yes i know weird) Meaning all wiring coming to the lower side of the house (kitchen living room etc... comes from above and down) It may even go up into attic and to the other side of the house (the higher level side) and back down to the Breaker panel) Hard to tell... drywall is in the way but I do know there is no electrical below the kitchen or anywhere below in that crawl space. I hate crawl spaces... never again will I buy a house with a crawl space.


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

Red Squirrel said:


> When you are done, what is going to be where the current plug is? If it's going to be hidden by the fridge, or cabinets, you may as well just cut the drywall and fish the wire to the new location, and do a quick patch job, not like anyone will see it anyway.


Itll actually be Behind the counter... they designed it so you could run plumbing behind the counter / electrical / etc etc without seeing any wire. I think most new kitchens have this design... my old one I ripped out did not have this luxury.

So no you wont see it but on that note... who knows how far that cable runs up the wall behind the drywall? it may run to attic which means clearly I will be ripping a piece of drywall from top to bottom of the kitchen... not so good.


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

sleepysmurf said:


> I know but the basement is a crawl space... theres no electrical there at all.... or plumbing for that matter. I don't see a difference in installing a junction box behind my counter and running the cable to the stove, or installing a junction box in the basement and running to the stove. Its the same thing no? just different location of junction box. All Wiring runs through the walls Above kitchen counter level (because house is side split the kitchen and living room are on a lower level than the junction box on the other side of the house..yes i know weird) Meaning all wiring coming to the lower side of the house (kitchen living room etc... comes from above and down) It may even go up into attic and to the other side of the house (the higher level side) and back down to the Breaker panel) Hard to tell... drywall is in the way but I do know there is no electrical below the kitchen or anywhere below in that crawl space. I hate crawl spaces... never again will I buy a house with a crawl space.


If you want, you can install a junction box where the receptacle is now and run cable to the new location and install a receptacle. 

You need to make sure that the junction box is accessible.
You need to make sure that the cable is not subject to damage.
You can NOT hardwire this cable into the stove, you will have to mount the receptacle behind it like it is currently wired.


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

If you want, you can install a junction box where the receptacle is now and run cable to the new location and install a receptacle. 
-thanks that sounds like a good idea

You need to make sure that the junction box is accessible. - it will be behind the counter but i can cut a small square hole through the back of the drawers to gain access to it.

You need to make sure that the cable is not subject to damage - its running about 5 feet behind the counter in holes drilled for it so nothing should even touch it

You can NOT hardwire this cable into the stove, you will have to mount the receptacle behind it like it is currently wired - I can do that... just need to buy a new stove cord as my current one is chopped up and ready to be placed in a junction box.

I like this guy ^^


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

Proby said:


> If you want, you can install a junction box where the receptacle is now and run cable to the new location and install a receptacle.
> 
> You need to make sure that the junction box is accessible.
> You need to make sure that the cable is not subject to damage.
> You can NOT hardwire this cable into the stove, you will have to mount the receptacle behind it like it is currently wired.


Thanks man, so far this sounds like the best solution to me. 

Anyone else have any ideas? if not I think ill go this route.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Proby

Just dropped in ...  why is he chopping up range cords??


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

LOL, because he started the task before asking about it first :thumbsup:


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

Stubbie said:


> Proby
> 
> Just dropped in ...  why is he chopping up range cords??


So I could run it to a junction box and connect it to the wiring that goes into my stove. May seem funny I know, but that was my best idea on how to extend the range at the time. With the help of more experienced and patient people (you guys) I am learning easier and better ways to do things. (Im new to this home improvement stuff... sorry  

At least I am asking for advice from experts instead of just doing and hoping for the best.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Hey no problem Sleepy. But I am glad you woke up ...

Your talking about aluminum wiring i assume this is the cable from the panel to the stoves old location (original branch circuit). If so how many wires 3 or 4 ??


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

PS. no one has commented on the way I am creating the link between the copper and the aluminum within the junction box. Am I missing anything other things ... other than the cap, the goop to rub into the aluminum and put into the cap twist it, wrap it in lots of electrical tape? Ive done copper to copper before but never copper to aluminum, im assuming its the same, other than you need the special goop (forget the name) and the special cap. correct?


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

Stubbie said:


> Hey no problem Sleepy. But I am glad you woke up ...
> 
> Your talking about aluminum wiring i assume this is the cable from the panel to the stoves old location (original branch circuit). If so how many wires 3 or 4 ??


4 wires, ground (non shielded looking cable), hot (red), hot (black), and white (neutral)

I think thats how it goes. 

As far as wiring it to the receptacle from what I understand the hots red and black attach to side pins, (it doesnt matter which side im told) the neutral white goes to the middle pin, and the ground attached to a screw that is within the box. Is this correct?


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

My first plan was to buy 6 feet of copper wire, splice the wire, attach the 4 wires to the stove, use duct tape to keep the wires secure there, run the cord behind the counter using duct tape to secure it in place, and then on the other end of the copper wire, splice again get my 4 wires and insert them directly into the receptacle, again using duct tape to secure it all... wrap the entire cord in duct tape several times, around and around and around just to make sure it all sticks together and stick the cord to the wall with the attached duct tape. Then proceed to wrap the whole cord again in electrical tape. 

This avoids ANY junction boxes. and provides a direct connection to stove to the wires in the wall. what more could go wrong? :wink:


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

thanks guys for all your help! you guys rock! thanks again!


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

I've seen worse. But that would have been a fire waiting to happen. With the amount of current your stove pulls thru those bad connections that you made, even your trusty duct tape wouldn't help contain the heat.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

sleepysmurf said:


> My first plan was to buy 6 feet of copper wire, splice the wire, attach the 4 wires to the stove, use duct tape to keep the wires secure there, run the cord behind the counter using duct tape to secure it in place, and then on the other end of the copper wire, splice again get my 4 wires and insert them directly into the receptacle, again using duct tape to secure it all... wrap the entire cord in duct tape several times, around and around and around just to make sure it all sticks together and stick the cord to the wall with the attached duct tape. Then proceed to wrap the whole cord again in electrical tape.
> 
> This avoids ANY junction boxes. and provides a direct connection to stove to the wires in the wall. what more could go wrong? :wink:


I am little lost here but what did you make a spice between the copper and alum conductors ???

And in fact any transations of cable materals like from copper to alum or viceverisa you must have a juction box and that is no connires on this one.

And why you want to wrap the whole cord in electrical tape ?? that is inviting of overheated cord or cable.

Merci.
Marc


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

sleepysmurf said:


> PS. no one has commented on the way I am creating the link between the copper and the aluminum within the junction box. Am I missing anything other things ... other than the cap, the goop to rub into the aluminum and put into the cap twist it, wrap it in lots of electrical tape? Ive done copper to copper before but never copper to aluminum, im assuming its the same, other than you need the special goop (forget the name) and the special cap. correct?


Nope can't make the connection that way. There are special wire nuts that are purple but I wouldn't use them for extending a range cable. Range cables operate at very warm temps at times this is an aluminum connections worst enemy. You probably want something you can get at the local big box so go get a compression connector like the image. 
These are alumniconn connectors for joining al to cu.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Stubbie.,

I think the OP will need the Polairs connectors they are much bigger than what you show on the photo.{ of course some big box store should have them if not the electrical supply centre will have it }

Merci.
Marc


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah your right marc 


I was just looking and they don't make them to accept over #10 awg. thats what I get for trying to find something outside the electrical supply network. He could use it for his equipment ground connections.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

Of course but the OP still need junction box anyway

To OP here the photo what we are talking about.,,










And I will never use the big bleu wirenut for copper/alum connection like that.

Merci.
Marc


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Sleepy says he has a jb big enough for the wires sizes.He will probably have to order the polaris online or electrical house. May not like the cost. He needs 3 at least.


What else would big box carry? Maybe shrink tube and compression connector?


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

frenchelectrican said:


> I am little lost here but what did you make a spice between the copper and alum conductors ???
> 
> And in fact any transations of cable materals like from copper to alum or viceverisa you must have a juction box and that is no connires on this one.
> 
> ...


Im joking dudes... sorry im very sarcastic, im not that dumb... yes I dont know all the ins and outs about electrical but i know enough not to use duct tape LOL


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

frenchelectrican said:


> Of course but the OP still need junction box anyway
> 
> To OP here the photo what we are talking about.,,
> 
> ...


Oh man now you guys are talking about things Ive never even heard of... wont that Aluminum goop paste cool things down a bit? thats what I heard anyway? OR will it still run to hot? you really think itll burn up inside the junction box?


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## sleepysmurf (Aug 9, 2010)

So I checked out what I could do in the basement to physically move the whole ordeal to the new location....

Seems to me my only option is to cut the cable running to the existing outlet... rendering it useless...The cables in the walls so thats where it will remain..stuck forever. 

Run a new cable from the switch panel to the new location.... theres no other way around it. It just sucks knowing I have to go 5 feet and its going to take a few hours and a **** load more cable just to get it to where I need it to go. Oh well.... I wish I could somehow pull the cable back a bit and use the existing cable already tied into the breaker panel but it doesnt even move a millimeter. The closest I can cut is in the basement, about 2 feet away from where it would actually need to be installed on the other side of the wall in the kitchen. So id still have to extend it 2 feet...which means junction box... which means I shouldnt bother and I should just run a new cable. 

Has anyone tried what im trying to do successfully before? Or do all signs point to run a new cable?


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## DownRiverGuy (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmm forgive me if these have already been brought up but....

1. Is the cord/plug connected to the stove with screws or other?
1a. If it is just with screws why not just unscrew the existing cord/plug and install one of the same gauge wire but longer?

2. Why not just use the existing receptacle location as a junction box.... install a new receptacle box at the spot you want...... bring in the SAME size/type of wire from the new box to the old.... connect the new/old wire together.... add a metal faceplate on the old junction box and keep it accessible?


The alumnimuim goo you're refering to is for lugs and wouldn't be applicable in this situation. I would NOT NOT NOT mix copper/aluminum when dealing with this type of load. You're playing around with alot of current and that will heat/cool down the conductors alot... then loosen them... then fire... then insurance agent says your policy is junk because of improper wiring methods :whistling2:


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

> Seems to me my only option is to cut the cable running to the existing outlet... rendering it useless...The cables in the walls so thats where it will remain..stuck forever.


Sometimes that's the breaks unless you want to cut drywall but if the cable was secured/fastened as it should have been that may not be successful anyway. Also if it is ran thru bored holes tying to pull it back may damage the cable.



> Run a new cable from the switch panel to the new location.... theres no other way around it. It just sucks knowing I have to go 5 feet and its going to take a few hours and a **** load more cable just to get it to where I need it to go. Oh well.... I wish I could somehow pull the cable back a bit and use the existing cable already tied into the breaker panel but it doesnt even move a millimeter. The closest I can cut is in the basement, about 2 feet away from where it would actually need to be installed on the other side of the wall in the kitchen. So id still have to extend it 2 feet...which means junction box... which means I shouldnt bother and I should just run a new cable.


This is by far the best idea you have had.....:thumbsup: Some 6/3 G NM-B won't set you back that much. Besides it will be an adventure don't look at it as work. 



> Has anyone tried what im trying to do successfully before? Or do all signs point to run a new cable?


Sometimes however I absolutely hate splicing a existing aluminum range branch circuit to extend it. If there is any way to run a new copper cable that IMO is the only option. If you can get the existing cable rerouted that would be good to....but doesn't look like that is going to work.

Sometimes it is also possible to install a small 2 space subpanel and use the existing branch circuit as a feeder to that sub-panel then install a breaker in that subpanel and run a cable from it to the range. About the only advantage to this that the splice is much better/easier using an enclosure with lugs and the subpanel location chosen may be a more convenient/safe disconnect than the cord and plug.


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