# Drywall Question



## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi Everyone ~ 
I need some help and some patience. I'm in the middle of a home remodel. I just tiled my entire downstairs which was my first time hiring a contractor and that turned into a nightmare (long story). 

I then hired a contractor that specializes in drywall to re-mud and retexture a few walls in my home where the wallpaper had been removed. In particular after removing wallpaper from one wall in the living room the drywall was exposed. The home was built around 1980 so I don't know what was under the wallpaper. 

The contractor stated that he could repair the wall by re-mudding and then retexturing! Great I said. I just finished painting the wall and the joint lines or "seems" can been seen on the wall. It also looks like he textured heavier in these areas. There is a thick band 2-3 inches running horizontally the length of the wall and then 2 other joint lines that can be seen. 

I'm trying to describe this the best I can considering I know nothing about drywall. Why am I seeing these joint lines? I assume since this is the contractors expertise he should have feathered the lines out enough so they could not been seen after the wall was painted. SO here we go again! I just want this stuff done right the first time and get this remodel behind me! 

Your input is appreciated. 


Thanks
Barbara


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

His "expertise" sounds questionable--Taping should have been completed before any texture was applied.

Sorry --you hired a drywall guy with limited skills-----Mike---


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

If the patches were not sealed before the finish coats, that could also account for the seams being visible.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Windows said:


> If the patches were not sealed before the finish coats, that could also account for the seams being visible.


True. were the walls primed or sealed before you painted them?

Another possibility is the high places were already there but not as noticible with the paper covering them. Did the house originally have wallpaper on the walls?

Regardless, if the contractor knew the walls were to be painted, he should have finished the walls *for painting*. He should also have advised you to seal the new mud to even the porosity of the wall out.

Did all the paper come off? Usually when I removed paper, I ended up skimming the walls.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I am trying to re-size and attach a photo. Lets see if it worked. This is the wall painted the blue tape is where the joint/tape lines are showing.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

This is the wall AFTER I removed the wallpaper. The wallpaper was thick like a fabric and it came off in one piece. YES I removed part of the drywall (I was having a blond moment) this is my first house and I didn't know the paper was part of the drywall. 

The contractor said he would mud over it, then seal it, then texture it something like that. I did not watch the process as he was removing the acoustic ceiling as well and the downstairs was all taped off. He also textured heavier where the blue tape is seen in the first photo. No I did not prime the wall prior to painting and I'm not sure that would solve the tape joint lines?? 

Barbara


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## spraygunn (Nov 14, 2010)

Hey Barb,
Was this contractor licensed by the state? If yes did he show it to you. I know, I know, a license doesn't make you a contractor, but it does offer a degree of legitimacy. During times like this everyone is a contractor or so they will tell you. Have you ever watched that program on HGTV called Holms on Homes? He's made a million bucks off of guys that call themselves contractors. He shows their ignorance and inability to do the job correctly. After the poor homeowner got what they thought was a good deal on a remodel job, he comes in and does it the way it should be, and I hate to see what his job would cost.
I know this response won't solve your issue but maybe it will help in the future.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Barb,
It's hard to see in your pic because of the tape. But you really should have primed the walls with a premium primer. When I redid my son's room last year when he moved out on his own, if you would have seen the walls before I started, you would have cried. After two days of patching, retaping some areas, sanding, etc. it was looking good. I still used Sherwin Williams premium wall primer. It's not cheap, but the walls looked like new after the primer and two coats of promar 200 low sheen eggshell. The primer hides the difference in the patched and non-patched areas. If you shine a quartz work light down the walls, especially at night, you will see any flaws in the taping. Might just need a final touchup of joint compound and prime and repaint to finish it.
Mike Hawkins


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks guys for the reply. Yes the contractor is licensed and bonded and I checked with CSLB and he is current. Without the blue tape the camera will not pick up the deviations in the wall but believe me they are there. My wall in the kitchen is in the same state and yes Mike I WILL prime it this time before I paint. 

I am going to contact the contractor and have him take a look at the wall. I PAID him to mud it and prime it correctly. The name of his company is "......." DRYWALL. So he should know what he is doing. I will tell you what I have learned about contractors though - they are always in a hurry and want to rush getting the job done! My tile wasn't installed right because the contractor's "employee" was in a hurry or smoked something while he was installing the tile that I still don't get! This guy was also in a "hurry". They are ALWAYS in a hurry  

Thanks 
Barb


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Okay guys now can you see it??? I had the painting contractor I just hired come over and tell me what he thought - nice guy. He said it is the seams and putting a primer on it WOULD NOT fix the problem. 

I then called the contractor that repaired the wall - the "drywall expert" - to please take a look at it. He was a jerk and said it would be at least a month as he was working on another job even though he lives about 20 minutes from me. I told him that I did not prime the wall but "priming" it was NOT going to fix the seam problem! He insisted that I put Kilz primer on it and that would fix it. I agreed to at least give it a shot on half the wall. Then called him back and said the seams are still showing, I would appreciate his cooperation, and I would like the wall fixed within a few weeks. If not then I will file a complaint. I want to get this painting done asap. 

Your thoughts?


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

The wall in the kitchen that was also repaired and textured by this contractor. I have not painted it yet.


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## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

Barb,
If you were to put a straight edge across the seam(s), are the seams recessed a bit still? It looks like another coat of mud with a wide knife would do it. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Mike ~ 
On the living room wall I would say the seams bow outward not inward as that is what I am thinking recessed means in this conversation. Shaun the painting contractor placed a flat wood stir stick - stick you stir paint with from Home Depot - over the seam to show me that it's not even - it protrudes outward slightly. 

How do you mud a wall Mike? Then what do you do afterward? 

Thanks 
Barb


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## Windows (Feb 22, 2010)

I can see in the lower picture that the seams aren't even close to wide enough. It might have been more clear if you said you could feel the seams. Saying you could see them implied to me they were flush and right and the only issue was their visibility.


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

those seems aint right !! you shouldn't be able to see them. Stay on top of the guy, call him every few days until you get him out there to look at it. 

I had a business for 15 years. If i ever had anyone that wasn't happy with the work i went back out there with in a few days (at the most) to see exactly what they weren't happy about. If we made a mistake i owned up to it & fixed asap, my reputation depended on it. Once you get this guy to see it with his own eyes he will be forced to make it right imo. Just keep bugging him with phone calls. "hey just want to know if you'll be near my area tomorrow to take a look?" or " was wondering if you'd have time to take a look at this Saturday?" etc .. etc... 

Other route is get another dw contractor out there, but then it would be more $ outta your pocket.


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## tcleve4911 (Nov 6, 2010)

If the seams are proud of the drywall (humped) they were not sanded properly. There's too much mud.

Now that they have been painted, it's a real problem to level those humps out.

You have to taper the joints way out and you will still see a"hump" but it will be more gradual.

....or skim the entire wall to the high point of the hump.......

..... or remove the drywall and start over. 

Either way, it's a lot of work.......

That's why this "drywaller" is giving you the runaround......he knows.....:shifty:


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Windows - I did not have the presence of mind at the time to tell you I could feel the seams until Shaun pointed that out to me yesterday. 


Axecutioner-B. This guy is a real whiner and immature and I really don't want to deal with him anymore! He didn't do a bang up job removing the acoustic from the ceiling and I have gaps in my baseboards but I shrugged that off. This I am not going to shrug off because the wall is unacceptable. He stated that he doesn't want to do anymore work at my home because "he may break a bush". He damaged my 20 yr old jade plant when he drug his spray hose over it and I took $20 bucks off his invoice for that. He then whined he didn't make enough money on the job because he had to re-paint the ceiling and pay his helper. And what was I supposed to do "offer him more money"! He bid the job and got paid $2500 for the work to me THAT was a lot of money! He's an a and I am tired of dealing with people like him. 

I am not going to keep calling him. I have given him a chance to make it right and he refuses. I did check with the CSLB and his license is current and he is bonded. I am going to call his bonding company. He should have done this right the first time. He should own up to it and fix it. 

tcleve4911 - yeah I know but it looks too crappy to leave it that way. I want it fixed and I would rather have someone else fix it. I really don't want this guy in my house or want to deal with him again.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Sycamore Inn said:


> Hi Everyone ~
> I need some help and some patience. I'm in the middle of a home remodel. I just tiled my entire downstairs which was my first time hiring a contractor and that turned into a nightmare (long story).
> 
> I then hired a contractor that specializes in drywall to re-mud and retexture a few walls in my home where the wallpaper had been removed. In particular after removing wallpaper from one wall in the living room the drywall was exposed. The home was built around 1980 so I don't know what was under the wallpaper.
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Sycamore Inn said:


> This is the wall AFTER I removed the wallpaper. The wallpaper was thick like a fabric and it came off in one piece. YES I removed part of the drywall (I was having a blond moment) this is my first house and I didn't know the paper was part of the drywall.
> 
> The contractor said he would mud over it, then seal it, then texture it something like that. I did not watch the process as he was removing the acoustic ceiling as well and the downstairs was all taped off. He also textured heavier where the blue tape is seen in the first photo. No I did not prime the wall prior to painting and I'm not sure that would solve the tape joint lines??
> 
> Barbara




I would say that wall was not finished for paint when it was built. This may be the reason the seams are showing. When texture or sometimes paper is intended for the walls or ceilings, the finish mud is not always feathered out wide enough for a paint covering.

He should have corrected the seams for you and got it ready for paint.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Some primer and more feathering might solve this problem. Kind of hard to say without being there and seeing how thick he covered the joints. The picture of the wall with the paper removed was rough. Imo, this confirms in my mind that the wall was not meant to be painted when the house was built. That or someone really messed up the mud job. May have been the ho'er, because it looks rough even if paper was intended.

Surely the contractor did not seal *just* the joints leaving the rest of the rock unsealed. He should at least come back and take a look at it. 

Curious, what was the scope of work he did for that price? How many rooms, size,etc? If you don't mind telling.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

My home is a condo and my unit was a "model" with lots of wallpaper back in the 80's. So I think you are right boman47k. The wall was not prepped right and then they stuck the wallpaper over it. The contractor on his invoice states "Living room - Hang 1/4 inch over 1/2 inch drywall one wall and finish. No paint." 

Do you think he actually hung drywall or just tried to skip that process? I did not watch the work because he was removing the ceiling at the same time and the entire downstairs was bubble wrapped. Walking thru all the plastic was a hassle and the chemicals he used were STRONG. I could smell them from upstairs and having allergies did not want to inhale any of them. 

I hired this contractor to remove the downstairs acoustic, repair the living room wall, 2 walls in the kitchen - the picture of the kitchen wall was putty coated according to his invoice - I removed the wallpaper and you could see the glue on the wall but the drywall was not damaged - retexture the downstairs bathroom - the prior and only owner Dorothy removed the wallpaper and then painted the walls which didn't look good - install two recessive lights one in the hallway and one over the sink in the kitchen - hang a ceiling fan in the kitchen, and install and paint all of the baseboards downstairs. 

The recessive light in the kitchen he said he couldn't do so we changed out the fixture. He also replaced the overhead light fixture in the kitchen as well. I think after it was all said and done I knocked off about $100 from his invoice. He was also supposed to install some light switches but that didn't happen.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

I just spoke with his Bond company. I am going to start the claim process get some quotes and have someone else do this job right. The contractor is on notice and he is aware that I was going to take action if he was not going to be "cooperative". As it is I'm 45 days out from getting this resolved and now need to hassle with getting more quotes. 

What do I look for when hiring another contractor to repair this wall right? Another coat of mud and then "texture" right? That's the catch 22 the guy did a good job with the texture.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

> The wall was not prepped right and then they stuck the wallpaper over it.


Actually, it may have been okay for wallpaper. Truthfully, imo, it should have been better even for wall paper from what I can see. Humps usually do not6 show as bad with wallpaper. Paper usually has some kind of design on it that helps fool the eye where humps are concerned. Like when a ceiling is speced for popcorn texture, the finish does not have to be as smooth as it does for a painted ceiling. Sometimes it shows. This can depend on the lighting also.



> Do you think he actually hung drywall or just tried to skip that process


Maybe, maybe not. Check around the door and window jams, and see if you can see any jam extensions to bring the jam out to the facing/trim. Might also check the electrical boxes to see if they have extensions. If the boxes are old work boxes with the clips that fit behind the rock to hold the boxes in, the same ones may have been used after the 1/4" was installed. I see no problem with just bringing these boxes out flush and retightening the clips.

If they were new work boxes (nailed to the studs), there may be extensions/mudrings on them to bring them flush with the rock. That or there may be 1/4" rock showing between the boxes and the covers, if he did not use extensions. Not cool.




> the picture of the kitchen wall was putty coated according to his invoice


I thought one of the walls pictured looked like it had been skimmed. The old seams ( I think) should have been worked down some or feathered out more before he skimmed (puttied) the wall.

If he reinstalled new 1/4" rock over the old in the same orientation as the old with the thick seams, the hump would still be there. In other words, 1 seam with thick mud on top of another seam ( with more mud). From what I can see, it looks like the addition of the 1/4" may not have been necessary. I may have the pics confused, but it looks like one wall was hung horizontally, which may be code there. In that case, I think he should have worked on the old seams before covering with new rock. Either way, I would have worked on the old seams first by either widening the mud seam and feathering or removing some of the mud.


*I removed the wallpaper and you could see the glue on the wall but the drywall was not damaged*

He may have not wanted to deal with removing the glue residues which would have been necessary if he did cover it with new rock. Removing paper can be messy. May have been quicker for the buck to just cover it rather than having to make sure the glue residue was removed, prime (areas damaged down to the rock itself), mud and sand the walls smooth ,and skim coat.

You may want to see if he was licensed to do electrical work also, if he did that. May be a bargaining chip if he was not. Was the electrical inspected? 

You are already out several dollars for an unsatisfactory job, might want to speak to an attorney that specializes in construction contracts. May not cost anything for a consultation.

Maybe check with the local Home Builder's Association. to see if they can recommend a good drywall company to at least come someone reputable to give a professional assessment of the situation for a reasonable fee.

You should be able to check your state's BBB for any complaints that may have been filed against this guy whether he is a member or not. I think he is thinking you will just let it go. Maybe some didn't and there will be complaints filed. More ammo.


Let me say, I am not a true professional drywall person, I paint. But I have worked in drywall and feel I have more knowledge and experience than the everyday home owner. Heheh, maybe more than *some* of the people that work in it everyday. I really doubt that. Most of the people who have done it while pretty much know what is going on.

I am not there to see in them real time, but I feel I could have done a good job on the walls without having to install new board.

In fact, I have a before pic of a wall I skimmed that I intend to get an after pic of. When I do, I will post the pics if I can still remember how to post them.

Good luck! Keep us updated. :thumbsup:


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

This is a before of one of the walls in my foyer. There had been an gas wall heater near the baseboard at one time. One of my first patches. Had a full length mirror there for a while to help hide my patch. I also had to mud where the mirror had been a few years. 

I will see if I can find the pic I took today of this wall.

Now that I think about it, the space just above the switch between the doors was maybe my very first patch jobs. Had a gob of mud on it for a while.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

After. 
Actually. still has a place or two I am not satisfied with, but this is my property. I'll get around to fixing it... someday. :whistling2:

Know the saying, "cobbler's son has no shoes"? :laughing:

P.s. These walls are probably somewhere around 50 to 60 years old.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Wow your drywall work looks great boman47k! I did check around the electrical box and did not see any extensions. It does look like there is a new piece of drywall. 


Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep you posted. 

Barb


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Thanks.

Like said, there are a few places that need touching up. Actually that would not be satisfactory if I had done it for a paying customer. The picture does not show it, but right about where the glare from the light is are a couple of slight ridges where it looks like I ended a skim stroke of mud. I really need to go back and prime then reskim perpendicular to these ridges. Prime and repaint.

That is why I think I mentioned without seeing something in real time, looks can be deceiving. Pictures can make things look better or worse than they actually are.

Note: If I had used a flat sheen paint, I doubt these slight ridges would have been noticeable.

I am thinking of trying my luck with a trowel instead of using the broad knives.

P'S. Now that I think about it, I may be able to sand these out then prime and paint. 

It is possible if it was the last part of the project and being my own property, that I left a buildup of paint. I tend to lose focus sometime toward the end when I feel like I have spent too much time on something. Not likely as I always go from top to bottom with the last stroke of the roller.

Okay, okay, when the wife keeps saying, " You're not done yet?" She does realize what goes into some projects.


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## redmanblackdog (Jan 7, 2011)

He did a bad job. Mudding and texturing. The question is, do you want to continue to have him come and do bad work. Do you really have any confidence in his work after what he has left you?
We all get taken, some time or other. You have a big problem, and I am sorry that I couldn't be there to help.

To fix the wall, your options are 1. sand off all the texture and start over with re-mudding the seams, repriming, retexturing, priming and painting. Sand the tops off of the texture, remud the seams and skim coat the whole wall, priming, texture, priming and painting. 3. Same as number 2. but after sanding and mudding, you spray over only the seams to try to match the texture. Let that dry and then spray the whole wall with a much heavier texture (knockdown). To hide and blend it together. Most honest drywallers will tell you that matching texture over a reworked area has its odds of showing some how. That is why the best way is to start with a new surface. If you want a better chance of it coming out like you want.

I would be willing to say that if he comes back to fix it, you won't be happy with what you get.

I would tell him you want the texture removed, before he does anything else. Then once the texture is removed, fire him and have another more competent drywaller come in, one with referrals

No matter which direction you go it will take quite a bit of work, and you don't want something you can't stand to look at after you go through all of this!


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

Sycamore Inn said:


> I then hired a contractor that specializes in drywall to re-mud and retexture a few walls in my home where the wallpaper had been removed. In particular *after removing wallpaper from one wall in the living room *the drywall was exposed. The home was built around 1980 so I don't know what was under the wallpaper.





Sycamore Inn said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am trying to re-size and attach a photo. Lets see if it worked. *This is the wall painted the blue tape is where the joint/tape lines are showing*.





Sycamore Inn said:


> *This is the wall AFTER I removed the wallpaper. *


Barbara, I'm trying to follow. But you keep talking about "*seams*". 
I only see one "*seam*" on that wall by looking at this last photo.:detective:
-Paul


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

It's unfortunate that most (I said 'most', not all) of today's contractors pretty diligently search for ways to do a job faster... not necessarily better. This is very detrimental to the finished product in far too many cases.

In the old days when wages received for a job were sufficient to enable a craftsman to do a proper job and still feed his family, it was different. But then, that home builder of yesteryear usually wasn't trying to support a $70,000 pickup, his wife's mercedes, the kids electronics addiction, and the perception that anything less than $700,000 a year labeled him as being in the poverty class.

From what I see today, you need to stay away from companies offering to give you too good a deal to be true. Because it usually is.

Don't shop price. Consult, ONLY, friends and acquaintances who have had similar work done and investigate the products left behind. Are they better than you might have hoped for? They should be.

Avoid trusting paid references like the BBB. They are not your friends or acquaintances. They are organizations that the contractor pays to be in for advertising. Ask your friends... go see the finished jobs. Your best references will be the 'word of mouth' recommendations of satisfied customers you know and trust.

To be honest, in today's environment, you usually have only two ways to go.

One, spend serious money and hire the big guys who can afford to waste your money and still take home a bundle.

Or... locate the older craftsmen who already have most of the creature comforts they want. Most of these guys are slower, and work mainly for their own satisfaction, not collection.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

redmanblackdog - NO! Now I am disgusted with this guy because he is a "crybaby" and there is nothing attractive about any man - or woman for that matter - that whines like a baby! Buck up! I do not want this guy in my home again PERIOD and do not believe he is competent. I have already filed a claim with his bonding company and will submit estimates. 

On one hand I just feel like tear the drywall out and put in new drywall! That would be easier than trying to rectify the poor workmanship performed by Mr. Crybaby that does not meet industry standards! If he would have done this right the first time the wall could have been salvaged. Now I'm not so sure. As I get more information from the bond company and the contractors I'll decide what direction to go in. 

Sir MixAlot - you missed a picture go back to the first page. 

Willie T - thanks for your words of wisdom. 

Barbara


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## redmanblackdog (Jan 7, 2011)

I am sorry that you are having so much trouble! Life isn't always fair. It sounds like you have plenty of energy and anger to chase this until you get your results or you ruin your day as well as others.

As far as I am concerned, this is a dead thread!


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

Looks like a bulging tape seams. Get a 14" knife and flair them out. It may take several coats use a straight edge or level to check your work


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

You want the *illusion* of a flat wall. This accomplished by feathering the seams out.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi Guys ~ 
A contractor just looked at the wall and said the same thing. He can re-mud it and smooth out the seams. I REALLY liked him and he was "referred" to me by the Sherwin-Williams paint store where I buy my paint. He's well known in my area and has a good reputation. The repair estimate is reasonable at $375.00. 


Barb


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

If this guy does a good job, that amount will not be hard to live with. :thumbsup:

The other guy? 

Its a shame you can't back charge him.

It would be tempting to take him small claims, and at least cost him a day of work just on principle. Of course it may cost you a day of work too plus the cost of filing.

I guess just take as one of life's lessons and move on. Except for maybe reporting it to the BBB. With so many having the internet these days, many do run a check on contractors before hiring them. This could cost him, especially if he has other complaints filed.


But, like I said, may be best to move on and not waste anymore time on him. Too many things in this old world to put grey hairs in our head already. :yes:


Thanks for the update.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Hopefully his bond company will cough up the money for the repair. I'm going to submit the estimate tomorrow and tell the adjuster I do NOT want this guy back in my home. Yeah I'm with you I want to move on BUT not opposed to holding him accountable.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Sycamore Inn said:


> Hopefully his bond company will cough up the money for the repair. I'm going to submit the estimate tomorrow and tell the adjuster I do NOT want this guy back in my home. Yeah I'm with you I want to move on BUT not opposed to holding him accountable.


:thumbsup:

Get a written contract with the new contractor descriping the scope of work he is doing such as reapir, correction, etc. in case the bond company needs sometrhing besides the word of someone they do not know (you). Documentaion if you will.


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Yep - the bond company just called Boman. They approved the repair, the contractor did not dispute it, and they are going to send me a check for the cost of the paint and the estimate of $375.00 to re-mud the wall  YEAH!!!!!


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

:thumbsup:


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## Sycamore Inn (Jan 25, 2011)

Boman47k ~ 
Just when I though my troubles were over! I had the wall re-mudded and the seams still show but it looks better and I'm not in the mood to hassle with it anymore! I liked the guy I hired and think he did the best job anyone could do! 


NOW the ceiling fan light in my dinning room that this contractor installed isn't working properly! The light comes on then shuts off after a minute! It's been doing this since he installed it but now it's gotten so bad it only stays on for a minute before it shuts off! Rrrrrrrggggggg! I posted this in the electrical section. The joys of home ownership!


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