# Staircase and stair area renovations



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Staircase renovatiions require 10 posts before the site will accept a response


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Wise guy, eh? (said in The Three Stooges voice)

LMBO


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That style of stair case is hard to modify---the steps and risers are 'let in' to the stringer---Post a picture from below the stair case---


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks like you got a lot going on. First of all the video was of a conventional stairs and the guy was making his own end caps. You can buy the end caps but for what they cost you could add a little more and buy the real tread.

You can do the end caps on your stairs but it is going to take some work because you have a mortise stairs where the treads and risers are mortised into the skirt/stringer. You can not just cut the part out of you stringer/skirt, it will not be structurally sound. If you decide to go this route you will have to cut a stringer to support the end that is opened to the room. Once you have the new stringer installed under the stairs then you can cut the skirt/stringer to accept the end caps.

The end caps in the video did not member into the sheet rock, it is a little hard to see but he membered it into a skirt board made from a 1X12.

Oh, the platform under the stairs can be removed as much as you like up to the carriage. You may have to add some support under it but that shouldn't be any problem. 

If this were my stairs, I would remove all you have there, cut new stringers and build the stairs from scratch, you will have less problems building new and at this point you would not be out a whole lot more money. If you modify what you have there you will pay in frustrations and time compared to a rebuild. JMHO


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Mike we must have posted at the same time. LOL

I had another thought, if you wanted to build the stile of stairs below you would have way way less problems and expense. Not talking about the stile of posts and spindles (newels and balusters) and rail but the base. In the first picture you can see you could go with ends of wood then carpet. The second picture is what I envisioned you wanting to do. Let us know which way you might want to go and we can go from there.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

oh'mike, yes you're correct that my treads and risers are let in to the stringers. It's all on display there from the under-stair closet.

BigJim, you're the bomb. I appreciate that you watched a bit of the video and the extensive, thoughtful feedback you provided. In particular, "If this were my stairs, I would remove all you have there, cut new stringers and build the stairs from scratch, ..."

I couldn't agree more and have spent hours watching every YouTube video from reputable builders I could find on measuring and cutting stringers. I've downloaded tons of photos and diagrams and read everything I could get my hands on. I think it would be awesome to build my stairs from scratch.

But, this is my main concern: the stringers are made from say 2x12x16's - how on earth would I, a woman, be able to heft around a board that big, not to mention upend it to fasten it in place? (I'm not a short woman, but I still don't have the upper body strength of a dude.) This is the issue that most keeps me from plunging in to this project. You should see me trying to carry in a piece of sheetrock - I look like a circus clown.:jester:

I agree that it would be a whole lot less headache to build what I want rather than modifying and constantly reapplying lipstick on a pig (my ol' pine box staircase). LOL

My current stairs are 36" wide, but there is lots of padding with thick shim boards shoved in along that former half wall I demo'd. if I built a new staircase, the new treads and risers could afford to be a tad wider, too. That'd be nice.

If I decide to go with the "build it myself from scratch" scenario, would you guys help me out if I encounter unforeseen circumstances?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

chukker said:


> oh'mike, yes you're correct that my treads and risers are let in to the stringers. It's all on display there from the under-stair closet.
> 
> BigJim, you're the bomb. I appreciate that you watched a bit of the video and the extensive, thoughtful feedback you provided. In particular, "If this were my stairs, I would remove all you have there, cut new stringers and build the stairs from scratch, ..."
> 
> ...


I apologize, I didn't realize you were a lady. Don't feel bad, many of us can't handle the heavy stuff now days. Knowing you can't handle the heavy 2X12s really limit you to working with what you have now, unless you can get someone to help you install three new stringers. 

If you were to leave the stairs in place and wish to modify, you will have to install at least one 2X12 stringer to support the open side, because once you modify the stringer/skirt it will be way to weak to be of any use structurally. Even if you can get the one stringer installed (which is hard to do) you will need a support for the stringer at the half way point, unless it is fastened to a wall or other support. 

We are here to help you in any way we can, several of us have years experience building stairs.

Edit* Just had another thought, if you can get the 2X12s on a set of horses, that would be the heavy part, putting the stringers in place isn't so bad because at least 1/3 of the weight of the 2X12 will be cut away to make a stringer. Just don't get wet 2Xs, they are really heavy. LOL


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Hmmmmm, BigJim, now you've got my mind in a whirl. That's a good point that the stringer will be lighter once 1/3 is cut away. Hmmmmm.

Welp, I believe I'm going to start planning out a new, open-on-one-side staircase with three stringers. This pine box staircase is very flimsy, so if I've got to go through all the trouble of refacing all the risers and treads, I may as well just build a solid, well-made new one, eh?

Thank you again for your time.

And please allow me to allay any fears by saying I'm not a hypersensitive chick waiting to be offended. (I was a pumper offshore, so I can handle myself pretty well, even though my steel-toed work boots had pink laces.)


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

chukker said:


> Hmmmmm, BigJim, now you've got my mind in a whirl. That's a good point that the stringer will be lighter once 1/3 is cut away. Hmmmmm.
> 
> Welp, I believe I'm going to start planning out a new, open-on-one-side staircase with three stringers. This pine box staircase is very flimsy, so if I've got to go through all the trouble of refacing all the risers and treads, I may as well just build a solid, well-made new one, eh?
> 
> ...


Cool, when you get ready just let us know if you need any help.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Chucker...you have I have something in common....I'm doing stairs right now as well......except I'm a guy....

I think your going to have some issues. When you took out that section of wall you impacted the strength of your stairs. Hopefully someone will correct me, but I think the max spacing on stringers 12". Here is what mine look like.



I'm working on my kneewall now.....



Here is my newel post....



And this is what is inside of it....I have kids....it needs to be strong.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Dawg, her stairs is 36 inches wide, three stringers will be fine for her's.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

BigJim said:


> Dawg, her stairs is 36 inches wide, three stringers will be fine for her's.


True.....but I only see 2


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddawg16 said:


> True.....but I only see 2


She has full mortise stairs right now, not a conventional.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Thanks dawg for jumping in with your comments. Yes I have only two mortised stringers on the sides right now, but I will be moving along to three when I commence this project and make a heavy-duty, open-tread-on-one-side staircase.

I did have intentions of reinforcing the current stairs but in a different way. Since I want to build under-stair storage, I was looking at reinforcements along the lines of this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQcr8XHjJCA

I have yet to design the storage space that I want, but here are some samples among the hundreds I've collected from online searches. Perhaps with children and toys, you may consider the same, dawg, yes?

A home can never have too much storage.:thumbup:


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Okay, I'll be counting on you, BigJim!:thumbsup:


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Oh, the platform under the stairs can be removed as much as you like up to the carriage. You may have to add some support under it but that shouldn't be any problem. JMHO


BigJim? What's a "carriage"?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The carriage is the stringer/skirt. After watching the vidio in your link, you may like using a kreg Pocket Hole Jig instead of using biscuits. Here is a link showing how to use one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF6DkNOwZ6M
You won't need as many tools with the pocket hole jig.

On your stairs, if you tear out what you have now and install a conventional stairs you will have less room under the stairs than you have now. The conventional stringers will protrude down into the space under the stair more than what you have now.

You can make the stairs you have now look good by using caps and a carpet runner. I don't know if your stairs are in code right now or are in code with carpet. The reason I say this is you may be able to cap the entire tread if it doesn't make the rise on the first and last step to be a different height.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Dawg, as far as the studs I removed from the outside wall of the staircase, there was nothing attached to them except the sheetrock. I kid you not. So that wall wasn't strengthening my staircase one whit.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

chukker said:


> BigJim? What's a "carriage"?


The part that sits on the platform at the foot of the stairs that you want to cut back.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Holy mackerel, BigJim! Code with carpet? My stairs may HAVE to be carpeted? I just tore it all out.

Would carpet treads bring a staircase back into code? I priced out those sisal ones - they're beachy and I think they look fetching! (I'm in Florida here and with the sand and all, carpeting felt really icky on bare feet.)

I thought about capping the entire tread, too, but I would still have to have a closed tread on the one side.

I'll have to give this whole project some dedicated thought. Hmmmm.

Oh, and thank you for the video - it's another chick! I will watch it now.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I didn't make that very clear did I, what I meant was, were all the risers the same height with the carpet on them? Carpet will make up a certain amount of thickness when added to the top of the tread, well anything will add to the rise when added to the top of a tread. 

If all the risers are the same all the way up the stairs it will be in code but, for example, if you were to add say 2 inches to the top of each tread, the first rise would be 2 inches taller than the last rise at the top of the stairs. The stairs would be out of code. Measure from the floor to the top of the first tread at the bottom of the stairs. Then measure from the top tread to the landing at the top of the stairs, they should be the same. 

Since you have removed the carpet the rise of the bottom riser and the top riser may be a different height. If you decide to leave what you have now and add a tread cap on top of the existing tread, the risers will be changed. What ever you do decide to do, the rise can not exceed 3/8 inch difference in any of the risers.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Phew! Loud and clear, BigJim. Thanks for the clarification. I was starting to sweat under the arms. LOL

I will be removing the tile that's on both the bottom landing and the top landing. The subfloor most likely will be some kind of cement board, so most likely that will be coming out too. I hope to be able to correct any irregularities, if there are any, when I change the subfloors of the landings and add the hard wood. Does that sound like a possible plan if necessary?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Sounds like a plan. We are here if you need us.


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## steveinNEPA (Jun 13, 2014)

Wish I would have jumped in sooner, but everyone else beat me to it... Oh well, such is the joy of doing paperwork... OH and BTW, WELCOME to the Forum Chukker! See your From PA and Florida, PA here, enjoy your stay here on the forum, and go back to florida before we get hit with another winter like last lol.


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## chukker (Jul 8, 2014)

Great video, BigJim, about the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. I was quite amazed!

It opens up a whole new world of projects, doesn't it? LOL


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