# Honeywell TrueSteam Humidifier Opinions/Experience



## sgthvac

I don't know much about Honeywells new truesteam humidifiers, but I do know from experience steam humidifiers work well when maintained. The problem is the steam will shorten the life of your heat exchanger becuase it will cause it to rust out. I'm not sure if it's worth the trade-off.


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## dgbehrends

sgthvac said:


> I don't know much about Honeywells new truesteam humidifiers, but I do know from experience steam humidifiers work well when maintained. The problem is the steam will shorten the life of your heat exchanger becuase it will cause it to rust out. I'm not sure if it's worth the trade-off.


Hi and thanks for the response.
Why does it shorten the life of the heat exchanger? The install instructions show that its mounted on the supply side after the exchanger. To work properly, when the humidifier turns on, so should the furnace fan which prevents any moisture from getting into the furnace. 

I have a 4000sq ft home with a large air exchanger that got the Relative humidity down to 15% last winter. I'm trying to figure out if I would be better suited with a flow through unit like the April Air Model 700 or possibly even the bypass model 600, vs the Honeywell 12gallon Truesteam humidifier. The truesteam will be a little more expensive to purchase/install. The unknowns are, how effectively it will battle the air exchanger which we use to do air exchanges since our house is very tight and cost of operation. In operation, there is electricity, water, and parts/filters. The true steam has the advantage when it comes to water and parts/filters, but I think the AprilAir's come out way ahead on electricity usage. If anyone else has some info or an opinion, please weigh in. Thanks!


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## statman

Just completed my first TruSteam install last week. Nice unit and there is no comparison against a flow through unit. The install cost and installation is by far higher than a flow through, but if you want humidity, then go with the TruSteam. My customer called me yesterday and said she has never had the humidity in her house until we put it in...and we replaced her flow through unit. You need to have a 120 v dedicated outlet for the humidifier and you can configure it to run with a Honeywell IAQ system or just let it run on its own via an internal fan relay and the humidistat. Good luck.


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## dgbehrends

statman said:


> Just completed my first TruSteam install last week. Nice unit and there is no comparison against a flow through unit. The install cost and installation is by far higher than a flow through, but if you want humidity, then go with the TruSteam. My customer called me yesterday and said she has never had the humidity in her house until we put it in...and we replaced her flow through unit. You need to have a 120 v dedicated outlet for the humidifier and you can configure it to run with a Honeywell IAQ system or just let it run on its own via an internal fan relay and the humidistat. Good luck.


Did you install the 12 gallon version of the Truesteam? I'd be curious to see how much her electric bill goes up. I'm leaning towards the trueSteam but I still have to consult with a couple different contractors to see what their opinions and experience are with my type of setup. One of them will win my business


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## statman

We installed the 9 gallon unit in her house...it is just under 3000 sq. feet but has a unique insulation package and is very tight, so we could undersize the humidifier accordingly. For 4000 sq ft., I would go with the 12 gallon unit. As far as electrical goes, I'm sure you will use more but I dont think your bill is going to increase by 20 % or anything...depends on how long the unit runs and how well your house is insulated.


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## dgbehrends

*steam humidfier vs powered bypass vs passive bypass*

I sent this question to several companies selling the products listed in the title line. 

Hi,
I'm the owner of a 4000square foot home, built in 2004, which is extremely tight. Because of this tightness I purchased a Venmar HE 2.6 air exchanger to exchange the air during the winter months. Unfortunately it did its job too well last year and got my Relative Humidity down to around ~17%. My hard wood floors did not like that very much. I'm considering 3 different model types of humidifier.
STEAM: The Honeywell TrueSTEAM Humidification System HM512DG115 12gallon.

FlowThru: The Honeywell Power Flow Humidifier HE365H8909 or the April Air 700

Bypass: The Honeywell Bypass Humidifier HE265A1007 or April Air 600

I would like your help to determine the pro's and con's of each type. A few things to note about my HVAC setup before I go into my understanding of the pros and cons. I live in MN and have a 4 year old 2 story house with 1345sq ft per level. The basement is unfinished and used only for storage right now. The house was built with a single stage Bryant 90+ furnace, which means it does not have a DC fan. My supply has 2 zones, 1 for the upstairs, and one for the main level and basement. The zones are controled by the Honeywell Environzone system, with an IAQ stat on the upstairs and main levels.

STEAM: 
Pros - Much more efficient water usage. Requires cold water instead of hot which means my gas powered water heater doesn't need to run. Does not require furnace to be on, however I'm not sure if the furnace blower needs to be on. Can add humidity much faster than flow thru or bypass (I could be wrong on this though since the 12 gallon is only specced for a little over a 3000 sq ft home). Ease of cleaning??? In the past people have complained about deposit build ups in the steam humidifer tanks and on the heating element. Honeywell claims they have solved this problem with technology, but that remains to be seen since the product is still new.

Cons - Sucks the juice!!! Lots of electricity usage,which means usage costs could be very high. Water is cheap but electricity is not. Complex unit with lots of parts which could fail after warranty. New product with less than a year of consumer testing.

FLOWTHRU:
Pros - More efficient then bypass. DC fan powered so furnace blower does not need to be on (is this true?) I would think if the furnace and furnace blower are not on then a lot of water would be wasted because the cold air wouldn't generate as much heat. Proven product due to years of consumer testing.

Cons - Requires hot water, and electricity to run DC fan. Fan motor can sometimes fail. Filter changes can be nasty if "gunk" has built up.

Bypass:
Pros - Simple operation with very few parts that could go bad. Uses no electricity, and since water is cheap, the cost of operation is low.
Cons- Requires furnace and or blower to be on to operate. Uses hot water. Filter changes can be nasty if "gunk" has built up.

Please add to what I've said above or correct things that I am incorrect on. If you need more information about my setup, please ask. Thanks!

The answers I got back were surprisingly varied, with probably a slight advantage going to the passive bypass. 

However thinking about my situation a little more where I'm using an air exchanger to replace stale air during cold winter months, makes me think that the steam approach is the way to go. My concern with the other 2 types is that they require the furnace to be running and because my house is well insulated I found that it didn't run for long periods of time. It will end up being a battle between the air exchanger and the humidifier and I think the air exchanger will win if the humidifier is dependent upon the furnace running.


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## Mindo

*TrueSteam Humidifier*

Hi,
We just had a truesteam humidifier installed yesterday for our Arizona house complete with the visionpro total comfort system control and we are a bit confused by the directions. Can anyone help me?
Do we set the control fan on auto and the system on heat and the humidity level where we want it and wait? Our fan ran all night last night and the humidity barely changed. It certainly didn't get to level at which we had it set. There isn't anything specifically that tells me how everything should be set.
THanks
Let me clarify. What if I need humidity but I don't need heat. Can I just turn the fan on? How much energy does this take and will I get much humidity this way?
THanks


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## kennzz05

it can take 48 hrs or more to get humidity where you want it, with steam all you should have to do is set the h/stat where u want it and use your heat as you normally would the humid. should be wired to run the fan on its own reguardless of heat settings




to the original poster ive instlled and repaired all three types (aprilaire) the steam is by far the most impressive but also the most in need of repair in just a matter of 3 years i think the heating element went on one and on another the float ball rotted thru but i think the more steps you take to purify the entering water the less likely you are going to have problems the steams i worked on had minerals growing all over them when i pulled them out


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## Mindo

*trueSteam Humidifier*

Thanks Ken,
I appreciate the info. Have you worked on these new Honeywell Truesteams yet? Is there a ball inside as well? I have very hard water in AZ and was wondering if I should clean it more than the once a year recommended.
THanks again
Mindo


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## dgbehrends

I ended up getting a TrueSteam and after a few days of use here are my thoughts.

Well so far I am pleased with it. I am monitoring the number of flushes it does to determine how long it is running. (I have one of those KillaWatt devices and will plug that into it tomorrow). It flushes every 10 hours and in the first 2 days it ran a total of 5 hours per day. I have a 4000sq/ft house that is fairly tight. I keep the indoor temp between 68 and 70. The outdoor temp has ranged between 5 and 15 the last couple of days. And my indoor RH setting is 30. The first hour after I had it installed, I let it run continuously and it raised my indoor RH from 30 to 34. I verified this 15mins/1%RH the next day when I monitored it bringing the RH up from 29 to 30. Just for the record, my air exchanger is what keeps my RH down and not infiltration. When I don't run my air exchanger the house gets stale fast and you can smell last nights dinner in the morning and I can usually maintain humidity

I pay about 10.5 cents per kilowatt. The Truesteam takes 12 amps so 12Amps*120Volts = 1440Watts * 5 hours = 7.2Kw * 10.5cents = 75.6 cents/per day * 30 days = $22.58 per month. I didn't consider the water used because I think it is very minimal.

Figuring out how much a byass would cost is a little harder. I'll take a guess since I don't know how much my water costs or how much my Natural gas costs off the top of my head. Lets assume its hooked to the warm water side of things to increase its efficiency. Most contractors I have talked to in my area suggest that be done. So here is my guess, I'd probably pay 5 to 10 bucks more in water usage since water is pretty cheap even if a lot is wasted. Natural gas to run the water heater more would probably cost 5 to 10 bucks a month more to. I'm not sure if the furnace blower fan would run more with a true steam or not so I'll just say that one is a wash. The install cost for the truesteam is roughly double that of a large bypass. The truesteam has an inline water filter that Honewell recomends changing every year. I priced it out at around 20 bucks. Bypass humidifiers also have a filter that should be changed once a year too. I think they range from 15 to 20 bucks. The truesteam has a lot more parts to go bad then a bypass, so maintenance might be more in the long run. 

All in all I like the performance of my truesteam, however I think it will cost me a little more in the long run to operate it.

My recommendation would be if you have a loose house and/or your furnace runs a lot then go with a bypass because it will take advantage of the furnace running. However if you have a tight house and/or your furnace doesn't run much (possibly oversized) then the Truesteam might be a better solution. 

I pondered my humidifier selection for a long time, partly because the Truesteams weren't ready for last years heating season. Would I have been happy with a bypass model, hard to say for sure, but my guess is probably yes. I chose the Truesteam because I felt it had the best chance of meeting my humidification needs, and so far it has done that.


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## beenthere

Didn't figure out for a bypass.

But, for the Aprilaire 700 power humidifier, connected to the hot water line, and water at a temp of 120°F. 

It would take the Aprilaire 700, 6.23 hours to put the same amount of moisture in the air.
It would use 1121.22 gallons of water total for the month.
It would cause the water heater to use 8.064 therms of gas more a month if the water heater is 80% efficient.

This is calculated for the humidifier to add all the moisture without the furnace running to supply additional heat to the water.

If the furnace were to run, it would lower the water consumption, and the gas usage of the water heater.
And make a slight increase in the gas the furnace consumes. How much depends on how efficient the water heater is.

The Truesteam is a good humidifier for tight houses that the furnace doesn't run much, and no room to install a powered humidifier.


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## yuri

Why are you running your HRV down to such a low humidity level? You can set the de-humidistat to 30-35% and cycle it that way. Did the installer set it up to run continuosly/overide the de-humidistat. They do not need to run continuosly unless you have a smell problem or absolutely need lots of fresh air. Not easy for any humidifier to undo what the HRV is doing. I have one in my house. You really need to find a compromise between the 2 scenarios. I have large houses with very wealthy customers with very expensive grand pianos etc and hardwood floors etc. You cannot easily bring in lots of fresh air w/o losing humidity. Most people have to get the humidity up and have less fresh air or the pianos and hardwoods will get damaged. A continuos running furnace fan will give you circulation and help keep the windows from frosting.


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## dgbehrends

yuri said:


> Why are you running your HRV down to such a low humidity level? You can set the de-humidistat to 30-35% and cycle it that way. Did the installer set it up to run continuosly/overide the de-humidistat. They do not need to run continuosly unless you have a smell problem or absolutely need lots of fresh air. Not easy for any humidifier to undo what the HRV is doing. I have one in my house. You really need to find a compromise between the 2 scenarios. I have large houses with very wealthy customers with very expensive grand pianos etc and hardwood floors etc. You cannot easily bring in lots of fresh air w/o losing humidity. Most people have to get the humidity up and have less fresh air or the pianos and hardwoods will get damaged. A continuos running furnace fan will give you circulation and help keep the windows from frosting.


Right now the HRV is a venmar HRV with the supra control, which has 3 settings, 20 minutes on 40 minutes off (min speed), constant on (min speed), constant on (max speed). There is also a frost protection de-humidistat. The 20 on 40 off setting is to much, I need something more like 5-10 on and the rest off. I'm working on connecting it to my IAQ environzone board and then I'll be able to fix those settings. Right now the truesteam humidifier is running about 5 hours per day to keep 30%RH in my home with the venmar running 20on 40 off. So in essense I've got more fresh air then I need and I'm wasting money to get it. I should have the HRV connected to my IAQ system soon.


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## beenthere

If yoou have an evirozone panel.
Why not hook your HRV to it.


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## dgbehrends

dgbehrends said:


> ..... I'm working on connecting it to my IAQ environzone board and then I'll be able to fix those settings. .... I should have the HRV connected to my IAQ system soon.





beenthere said:


> If yoou have an evirozone panel.
> Why not hook your HRV to it.


I'm working on it.


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## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Didn't figure out for a bypass.
> 
> But, for the Aprilaire 700 power humidifier, connected to the hot water line, and water at a temp of 120°F.
> 
> It would take the Aprilaire 700, 6.23 hours to put the same amount of moisture in the air.
> It would use 1121.22 gallons of water total for the month.
> It would cause the water heater to use 8.064 therms of gas more a month if the water heater is 80% efficient.
> 
> This is calculated for the humidifier to add all the moisture without the furnace running to supply additional heat to the water.
> 
> If the furnace were to run, it would lower the water consumption, and the gas usage of the water heater.
> And make a slight increase in the gas the furnace consumes. How much depends on how efficient the water heater is.
> 
> The Truesteam is a good humidifier for tight houses that the furnace doesn't run much, and no room to install a powered humidifier.


Does the 700A need to be interlocked with the Furnace Fan, or does it generate enough cfm on its own to push the humidity into the house?

EDIT: I just found this paragraph in the manual for the 700A
_"Except forModels 350 and 360, the Aprilaire humidifier is installed to operate in conjunction with the heating, ventilating, air conditioning equipment (HVAC) blower motor.When the Aprilaire humidifier Control calls for humidity and the blower motor is operating, water flows to the distribution tray located at the top of the humidifier. The water is uniformly distributed across the width of the tray and through a scientifically designed system of outlets. It flows by gravity over theWater Panel® evaporator, the heart of the humidifier. Dry, hot air is moved through the moisture-laden Water Panel evaporator where natural evaporation takes place. The now-humidified air carrying moisture in vapor form (nature’s own way) is circulated throughout the home."_

So the answer is yes it must be interlocked.


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## beenthere

Yep.

Any humidifier that is mounted to a furnaces duct system, uses the furnaces blower to circulate teh humidified air.


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## rextor

Hi,
I just had a True Steam humidifier with IAQ installed yesterday. I have a 4200sq/ft house that is fairly tight. I keep the indoor temp between 72 and 74. The outdoor temp has ranged between 5 and 20 the last couple of days. And my indoor RH setting is 40. The last 24 hours after I had it installed, the RH is around 30 to 32. Any idea how long I have to wait to reach RH of 40.


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## dgbehrends

rextor said:


> Hi,
> I just had a True Steam humidifier with IAQ installed yesterday. I have a 4200sq/ft house that is fairly tight. I keep the indoor temp between 72 and 74. The outdoor temp has ranged between 5 and 20 the last couple of days. And my indoor RH setting is 40. The last 24 hours after I had it installed, the RH is around 30 to 32. Any idea how long I have to wait to reach RH of 40.


Your house seems similar to mine so if I had to guess (assuming you had a 12gallon installed) maybe around 8 hours if your house is actually tight. Your indoor air temp is a little higher than mine so it will take longer to humidifier the air. The hotter you keep it the dryer it will be. I would say that an RH of 40 is a little high based upon this link's recommendation http://www.home-smart.org/how_your_...795&SelectCatID=795&CatId=795&ref=795:HYHW_LN
I would shoot for around 35% humidity but that's just my opinion not taking into consideration any thing in your home that has very strict IAQ requirements. BTW it was -26 here last night. Cheers.


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## rextor

*True Steam*

Thanks for your replying Ken,

What is your maximum RH reading during this winter? My True Steam can only reach up to 33 even my setting is 40.


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## dgbehrends

When I first got it installed my RH was 30% and it took 1 hour to get it to 34%. The weather was a mild 15 degrees outside. Since then the temp has plummeted and I haven't let the RH get above 25%. If I do my windows start to frost up pretty bad. Right now I tolerate some frost with an RH around 20. I get a lot more frost when I leave my cellular blinds closed so I have to be really careful about opening them up in the morning so that I don't have a river running off my window sill.


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## rextor

*:yes:Hi dgbehrends,*

Thanks for your replying. What is your maximum RH reading during this winter? My 12 gallon True Steam can only reach up to 33 of RH even my setting is 40.


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## Dr Heat

I have put in three true steams. 

one 9 gal two 12 gal

The two 12gal. are in the same house 5600 sqft. The best I can achieve after 6 weeks running 24/7 is 33 upstairs (nice) but only 24% on the main floor. Had the Honeywell rep out today and he is going to bring out an engineer next week.

Tight house no erv or hrv fire place dampers are closed and well fit.

Here is my question have any of you had trouble getting the humidity up? 24 gal a day should handle 6000 sqft.


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## dgbehrends

Dr Heat said:


> I have put in three true steams.
> 
> one 9 gal two 12 gal
> 
> The two 12gal. are in the same house 5600 sqft. The best I can achieve after 6 weeks running 24/7 is 33 upstairs (nice) but only 24% on the main floor. Had the Honeywell rep out today and he is going to bring out an engineer next week.
> 
> Tight house no erv or hrv fire place dampers are closed and well fit.
> 
> Here is my question have any of you had trouble getting the humidity up? 24 gal a day should handle 6000 sqft.


On another board I have seen people complain about the truesteam not working for them. I think in some of those situations the house was too loose for the truesteam to keep up. In my case I set an RH meter on one of my main floor vents and watch the humidity climb, my IAQ stat followed suit. It went from 30% to 34% in an hour, with temps of around 15 outside and 68 inside, in my 4000sq tight house.


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## dgbehrends

rextor said:


> *:yes:Hi dgbehrends,*
> 
> Thanks for your replying. What is your maximum RH reading during this winter? My 12 gallon True Steam can only reach up to 33 of RH even my setting is 40.


Since I have had my truesteam installed the highest was 34%, I won't let it get higher due to frost on my windows. Before the truesteam the RH% would stay in the 40% range with 20-40 degree temps outside. If I kicked on my HRV it would drop and it would slowly come up if I didn't run my HRV, but my house would get stale and smell of last nights dinner in the morning.


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## diab0lus

dgbehrends said:


> Since then the temp has plummeted and I haven't let the RH get above 25%. If I do my windows start to frost up pretty bad. Right now I tolerate some frost with an RH around 20. I get a lot more frost when I leave my cellular blinds closed so I have to be really careful about opening them up in the morning so that I don't have a river running off my window sill.


IIRC, you mentioned that you have a VisionPro IAQ. Did you install the external temp sensor ($20)? It will allow the Tstat to automatically adjust the inside humidity when the external temperature changes in order to prevent more frost from forming. It should be an easy install if the area around the furnace is near an unfinished outside wall. The leads on the sensor can be extended with 18/2 tstat wire up to 200 ft. I get my TrueSteam in a few days. I can't wait.

Ryan


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## beenthere

Tight construction is a term used loosely by many builders.

With out a blower door test, no way to know for sure what it is.
It could easily be .33(average infiltration) or more.

Do they have a lot of in and out the doors(kids).

What are your ouotdoor temps and humidity conditions?


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## beenthere

Dr Heat said:


> I have put in three true steams.
> 
> one 9 gal two 12 gal
> 
> The two 12gal. are in the same house 5600 sqft. The best I can achieve after 6 weeks running 24/7 is 33 upstairs (nice) but only 24% on the main floor. Had the Honeywell rep out today and he is going to bring out an engineer next week.
> 
> Tight house no erv or hrv fire place dampers are closed and well fit.
> 
> Here is my question have any of you had trouble getting the humidity up? 24 gal a day should handle 6000 sqft.


 
What did the engineer say?


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## Dr Heat

beenthere said:


> What did the engineer say?


He said and I quote "gee the 12 gal. is the biggest we sell and you have two that should be enough but well I guess your F'd ) " ok so I did paraphrase a bit.

Instead of an engineer I got a salesman. He took some pics mumbled and said these are too small.

My general contractor will never use Honeywell again nor will I. At least when you call April Air they just don't return the call.


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## beenthere

Don't mess around with those little humidifiers from Honeywell.

Try the EWC Autoflo steam humidifiers.
Small one, S2000 16 gallons a day.
Large one, S2020 22 gallons a day.

They are not as easy to install as the Truesteam.

But an S2020 on that first floor, and a S2000 on the second floor would take care of that place.

They cost more too.


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## rextor

*Maintance*

Does anyone have the experience to clean the unit? I found that soaping water seems not very efficiency to clean and remove the minerals on heating element and reservoir walls. The empty yellow light still blinking after cleaning the tank. Does anyone know where is the sensor within the tank?


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## dgbehrends

diab0lus said:


> IIRC, you mentioned that you have a VisionPro IAQ. Did you install the external temp sensor ($20)? It will allow the Tstat to automatically adjust the inside humidity when the external temperature changes in order to prevent more frost from forming. It should be an easy install if the area around the furnace is near an unfinished outside wall. The leads on the sensor can be extended with 18/2 tstat wire up to 200 ft. I get my TrueSteam in a few days. I can't wait.
> 
> Ryan


I purchased the Envirazone package, 2 vision pro IAQ stats, 2 zone dampers, 8335 zone board, and an outdoor temp sensor. The system works pretty well. With my frost protection at 5 and my RH set to 40% my truesteam is able to get the job done. The first month of operation mid January to mid February cost me ~$30 according to the kill-watt device I had placed on it. To correlate this performance with your own I would have to list a lot more details which I'll PM if you are interested.


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## beenthere

Use a dilution of CLR to clean it.


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## veesubotee

rextor said:


> Does anyone have the experience to clean the unit? I found that soaping water seems not very efficiency to clean and remove the minerals on heating element and reservoir walls. The empty yellow light still blinking after cleaning the tank. Does anyone know where is the sensor within the tank?


Many years ago, I installed a Sears humidifier on my furnace plenum. The media was installed on a powered wheel which was submerged in the water reservoir. Btw, water in; none out; no waste.

At the end of the heating season, I would remove it and soak it in heated vinegar. The mineral deposits (calcium?) would sizzle and eventually disappear. I also use the hot vinegar treatment to clean my coffee maker. 

Afterwards, just rinse with lot's of water.

Has anyone tried vinegar on the steamers?

V


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## charmedby4

*true steam*

Hi my furnace man put in last week, the true steam 9 gallon,it has run steady for days woke up this morning looked at my new Honey well thermostat said 14% humidity, these guys have not tried anything yet with the true steam, but just took out the by pass 1 I had installed last year no humidity from that thing either,came out 5 times tried a variety of things with that, They were suppose to come yesterday, and look at this but it was-22 below here in Mn so had to many out calls, Please help, this has been going on for 2 years still no humidity!!:furious:


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## dgbehrends

charmedby4 said:


> Hi my furnace man put in last week, the true steam 9 gallon,it has run steady for days woke up this morning looked at my new Honey well thermostat said 14% humidity, these guys have not tried anything yet with the true steam, but just took out the by pass 1 I had installed last year no humidity from that thing either,came out 5 times tried a variety of things with that, They were suppose to come yesterday, and look at this but it was-22 below here in Mn so had to many out calls, Please help, this has been going on for 2 years still no humidity!!:furious:


First off, to know if the problem is with your humidifier we would need a little more info. What's the size and age of your home? What indoor temperature do you keep the thermostat at? What was the size or model of the bypass humidifier. 14% humidity when its -22 is a little low but not a lot, I think in my house (southern MN) when it was -22 out my humidity was mid 20s and I tolerated some moisture on my windows.
Without the information I mentioned above it still would be a good idea to have an energy audit done or at the very least a blower door test. My utility company said they could do a blower door test for $50. This will tell you how leaky your house is and give you suggestions for tightening it up. This will make whatever humidifier you have seem much more effective because it isn't trying to humidifier as much cold dry air leaking into your home.


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## beenthere

The 9GPD is good for many small houses, under 1500 sq ft,

It could be too small.
Or your water line could be restrictive.
Is it set up to humidify without a call for heat.


As above, what ize is your house.
Is it built very tight, or is its construction loose.


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## charmedby4

My house is around 3000 or more square feet it is 5 years old with very tall ceiling in the main part 20 ft I think and 10 feet in the basement, I had 2 different companies come and they both said 9 gallon was good, the 1 company installed it. Also they spent 4 hours today on it,and it still is 16% in here. They have tried everything running out of ideas.It is the true steam honeywell hm509and the new thermostat is honeywell vision pro iaq, he even put a hole in the duct work to check if it was steaming and he said yes, and it runs indepentantly from the heat the blower runs when humidity is called for. I do not no about the construction it seems good


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## beenthere

charmedby4 said:


> My house is around 3000 or more square feet it is 5 years old with very tall ceiling in the main part 20 ft I think and 10 feet in the basement, I had 2 different companies come and they both said 9 gallon was good, the 1 company installed it. Also they spent 4 hours today on it,and it still is 16% in here. They have tried everything running out of ideas.It is the true steam honeywell hm509and the new thermostat is honeywell vision pro iaq, he even put a hole in the duct work to check if it was steaming and he said yes, and it runs indepentantly from the heat the blower runs when humidity is called for. I do not no about the construction it seems good


Ask that contractor that put it in, to show you the calculations that say a 9GPD humidifier will handle your house.

They should have put either *2-9 or 2-12 Gallon Per Day *humidifiers in.

I would have gone with 2-12's. Figuring that you will lose 20% capacity after a month or 2 of operation without a manual cleaning.

They UNDER SIZED YOUR HUMIDIFIER.


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## charmedby4

wow and both said the 12 gallon was over kill??


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## beenthere

If your house was really tight. Say less then .2 air changes an hour, yea, a 12 gallon would be more then you need.

My spread sheet doesn't have outdoor temps lower then -10°F.

But, at -10 outdoor temp, the best you'll get out of a 9GPD is around 15% RH +or- a couple % at an indoor temp of 70°. Varing with cooking and showing.

A single 12GPD, should get you 20% +or- a couple % varing with showering and cooking.

A 16 would get you to about 24%, an 18 gallon would get you to 26%
A 22 gallon would get you some where between 33 and 35%RH.
But would drop off within a month due to scale build up.
All those are at -10° outdoor temp, and 70° indoor temp.
And used a standard winter air change rate of .7 per hour.

Unless you had a blower door test done, to know its lower then that. You can't use a lower rate.

2=12's would have a longer time between manual cleaning of scale build up, then a 22GPD would.



The Truesteam doesn't come larger then 12GPD.

I have a spread sheet that list the the most common sizes of humidifiers. Its not brand specific.


----------



## charmedby4

well thank you so much for this info I might pass it a long to these heating guys if i dare, you think they should have know this, thanks again for all your time and effort wish i would have gotten the bigger one, have not paid for this one yet might see what they say,thank you


----------



## beenthere

Your welcome.

A lot of HVAC companies just rely on manufacturer hype.
And don't take the time to do the calculations themselves(some don't know how).

Honeywell touts the Truesteams abilities at unrealistic low hourly air exchange rates(infiltration).


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Your welcome.
> 
> A lot of HVAC companies just rely on manufacturer hype.
> And don't take the time to do the calculations themselves(some don't know how).
> 
> Honeywell touts the Truesteams abilities at unrealistic low hourly air exchange rates(infiltration).


The other problem with how honeywell rates these things is on an assumption they will run 24/7. Who wants to be using 1250 watts (HM512 Unit) 24 hours a day. Ouch!  
I have one HM512 in my house and it ran 6-10 hours a day during the cold days of the this winter. With the temps rising it runs less.

One other thing to consider is if you have an HRV (air-exchanger). If you do check to make sure it isn't exchanging too much air.


----------



## beenthere

LOL.. All manufacturers rate by 24 hour period.

Its so the average person can grasp the concept of the size.

Most people would flip if the saw a rating like .375 gallon an hour.
Or .5 gallon an hour for a whole house humidifier.
That they're pay more then just 100 bucks for.

Or, if they actually rated it the proper way.

3500 grains per hour.

Not to many prospective humidifier customers are going to be able to relate that to its gallon per hour or day rate.


----------



## charmedby4

yes they checked the air exchanger even taped it shut, for a while inside that box,for what reason I dont no. But yes I was thinking that this would make my electric bill go way up,should have never put 1 in I guess. Has been a big headache and still no humidity with a big light bill.HahaBecause I dont think it helps at all, If I shut it off the humidity stays the same in here unless it warms up then it rises


----------



## beenthere

Too small.

Your house leaks more then you think though also.

A blower door test, would probably show a winter ACH rate of better then .9


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Too small.
> 
> Your house leaks more then you think though also.
> 
> A blower door test, would probably show a winter ACH rate of better then .9


/agree


----------



## charmedby4

what is a blower door test? and the numbers what do they mean,ty


----------



## beenthere

It reveals how much air leaks into your house.

The higher the number, the quicker the air exchange.

The quicker the air is exchanged, the more it cost the heat and cool your house. And the dryer it is in the winter, and more humid in the summer.


----------



## beenthere

A .2 ACH rate, would mean it takes 5 hours to exchange all the air in your house.

A .4, would mean it take 2.5 hours.

A .7 would be 1 hour 30 minutes or so.

A 1 would be a complete change every hour.

.2 is 20%, .4 is 40% etc. Of the total volume of your house.


----------



## charmedby4

so how do they do this door blower test this is what your talking about then? Well they called yesterday and asked if the humidity came up, I said no, so they are going to ask Honeywell to get involved I guess.Been working on this for 3 years, no results yet.It is 31 here today, I shut it off yesterday it stays the same in here with it off or on, I will let u no what honey well figures out and thank you again, OH,ps they said no way 2 is needed??


----------



## R0517

*Honeywell TrueSteam Humidifer Operating Cost*

Who still wants to know what a 12 gal/day TrueSteam humidifier costs to operate? After installing an energy meter and a small water meter to measure KWh, gallons used, and amount of condensate, I have two months worth of data. I did all this after receiving my January electric bill.


----------



## mjbxx

R0517 states: "Who still wants to know what a 12 gal/day TrueSteam humidifier costs to operate?"

I 'd like to know. Let's have it.


----------



## beenthere

charmedby4 said:


> so how do they do this door blower test this is what your talking about then?
> 
> The blower is installed in your door frame.
> The blower moves X amount of air, against X amount of pressure.
> So they read how much pressure the blower creates.
> Then they use the volume of your house to determine how much your infiltration rate is.
> 
> Member AndrewF just had one done, and I believe he was impressed with what he found out about his house.
> 
> Well they called yesterday and asked if the humidity came up, I said no, so they are going to ask Honeywell to get involved I guess.Been working on this for 3 years, no results yet.It is 31 here today, I shut it off yesterday it stays the same in here with it off or on, I will let u no what honey well figures out and thank you again, OH,ps they said no way 2 is needed??


That doesn't supprise me.
Coming from a company that said a 9GPD would be enough.

Generally, a factory rep, won't disclose too much info to you. Your not his customer. Your contractor is his customer.

So he will probably be vague with his answers around you.
But, should tell the contractor what is wrong with their sizing method.

When they talk to you again, weather or not the Honeywell rep is present.
Tell them what RH% you want to be able to maintain.

Or, ask them what RH% they guaranty the humidifier will maintain.
And what infiltration rate they are using to determine that.

You may have posted it before. But what state and zip code are you in.
I may be able to pull up your weather conditions, to see what your average outdoor humidity is. And enter them in the spread sheet, for a more accurate output.

But, for an outdoor temp of 40°F, at 40%RH, to maintain an indoor temp of 70°F, and a 35 %RH, you would need 16 gallon a day humidifier, at an infiltration rate of .7ACH. 

( I used a 3000 sq ft home with 8 foot ceilings in my calc, And all calculations are made based on both Carrier's, and York's Psychometric Software ).

And it would need to be cleaned monthly, in order to maintain its full ability. Or it would start dropping its ability to humidify after a month or 2.

Your Winter infiltration rate would need to be .35 or less in order for a 9GPD to handle your house under those ambient conditions.

If they try and give you the, "the 12GPD can handle up to a 4000 sq ft tight house" line.
Remind them, that a tight house doesn't need humidification.
Since there wouldn't be enough drier outdoor air coming in to dry out your house. Unless it has mechanical ventilation.
And if it has mechanical ventilation. Then it has enough fresh air coming in that it will need a high amount of humidification.


----------



## beenthere

R0517 said:


> Who still wants to know what a 12 gal/day TrueSteam humidifier costs to operate? After installing an energy meter and a small water meter to measure KWh, gallons used, and amount of condensate, I have two months worth of data. I did all this after receiving my January electric bill.


How much it cost, is also dependant on your outdoor ambient conditions.
How high you set the humidistat.
And how much infiltration your home has.

If it increased your electric bill substancially, then either, you have the humidistat set too high, or your house has a lot of fresh air leaking into it, or your mechanical ventilation rate is too high. 

If it only went up 5 or 10 dollars. You probably didn't need a steamer.

Post the info.


----------



## R0517

My data logging with an energy meter, water meter, and condensate collection dedicated to my TrueSteam HM512 is close to what is reported above.

At maximum humidification (12 gal./day) the humidifer consumes 1.2 KWh per hour. At my average cost of electricity of $0.094 per KWh, that's a rate of $0.11 an hour ($2.71 per day or $82.36 per month). I was expecting not to be running at maximum that much. However, during an unusual cold spell in January for my area (temperatures in the low 30's by day and low 20's at night), my 3200 sq.ft. house never could get above 34% RH, and the additional cost to my January electric bill caught my attention. My data logging shows that recent more normal "winter" demand costs around $50 /month. BTW, the loss of condensate due to the "remote" installation of the unit into the bottom of my downflow furnace was only around 5%.

The unit, so far, works as advertised, but people should be aware of the operating cost in their particular situation.


----------



## beenthere

See if you can seal your house a little more.

Switches and receps on outside walls,, any windows that you can caulk and seal a little better, and doors.

Next thing over looked a lot.

Is that many switches and receps on inside walls, are in cavities that have wires running the the next floor, or attic.
The hole around these wires going to the attic, are drafting air out of the house. Causing the house to draw more fresh air in, further reducing your humidity level.

Next, check your plumbing pipes at your vanity, and bathtub/shower.
The holes the pipes come through should be sealed. But, often times they aren't. And they also cause you to have a chimney effect/draft air out of the house. Seal all of these areas, and you greatly reduce the amount of moisture you must add to your home.

If you have a mechanical ventilation system.
Make sure its not set up to bring in more fresh air then required/needed. It just raises both your heating and cooling bill, but also your humidifying bill. 

A big problem with any steam humidifier. If its just barely big enough for the home/structure.
It tends to go into 24/7 run likes your did. And actually cost more to operate, then if you had 2-9GPD, or 2-12 GPD units installed.

Also, if any of your duct work in installed in the basement, attic, or unconditioned space.

Seal all seams and joints. If its leaking, your paying to add humidity to areas that you don't need to humidify.


----------



## charmedby4

zip code 56308


----------



## beenthere

On your 30° days, a 12GPD won't be able to maintain 35%RH.

On your coldest nights(-30), a 9GPD will have little to no effect. And a 12GPD will run more then more then 40 minutes to maintain 15%RH.

At your normal conditions for 5°F outdoor temp, a 12GPD won't get you above 25%RH, if it reaches that.

Using Truesteam humidifiers. You need 2. 

2=9's, or 1-9 and 1-12, or 2-12's.

Or. You really need to reduce your air infiltration to an extremely low rate. Lower then 4 ACH in the winter.


----------



## beenthere

Don't know if you can make heads or tails out of this graph.

Removed line graph, and replaced with easier to read bar graph.

Found I enter 2 points incorrect in line graph, and corrected them on bar graph.


----------



## beenthere

See above edited.


----------



## charmedby4

thank you so much for all your time and effort u have put into this,I'm getting the concept of it all now, they said 12 would be over kill, I might print this all up and give it to them, see what honey well says, What do u think is best, maybe one that just sits around.It is 42 above right now and my humidity percent is 25 %, no humidifier running because I shut it off had no effect, so did not see any reason to have it run steady.


----------



## beenthere

Your area has a fairly high winter outdoor humidity.
So, the air its bringing in is providing you with the higher indoor RH today.

Is your duct work in the basement, attic, or in the conditioned space.
You could have a problem with duct leakage that the 9 has no effect.

I like the ease of install that the Truesteam has(never installed one, because of their low capacities)by their install instructions.
Just wish they had made them with more realistic capacities.

I use EWC autoflow steamers.
The small one is 16 GPD.

If they tell you that a single 12GPD will be enough.

Ask them to put it in writing. And if it proves that a single 12 GPD is too small, they will install a second unit at NO cost to you.

Thats a test of their confidence in their ability to size correctly.


----------



## charmedby4

my duct work is in the basement, this is the same company that installed all of it in this house, I would never have the guts to ask them that!! hahaha


----------



## beenthere

charmedby4 said:


> my duct work is in the basement, this is the same company that installed all of it in this house, I would never have the guts to ask them that!! hahaha



Chicken. 

Get a incense stick.

Turn set your thermostats fan switch to "on".

Light the stick. And pass it near the seams/joints of the duct work. Both supply and return. And all duct, plenum connections.

See if its drawn in or blown away from any of the joints.

If it is. Then you see where some of the problem is.


----------



## charmedby4

:thumbsup:u know I am a lady right? sounds like a lot of work, dont even really no where the duct work is, most of it is covered with a tin ceiling in the basement I think, And yes I am a chicken,but I am getting braver have not paid for this 1 yet, probably was not their fault if I have a leaky house, but is their fault if I have leaky duct work because they put it in, Will let u no if Honey well ever comes,haha, they will probably say scr** it and just give it to me,ha!


----------



## beenthere

No, can't tell gender over the internet all the time.

As for not their fault if your house is leaky?

How did they determine size of system, unless they allowed for leakage.
It effects equipment size.

They may have fell for Honeywell's propaganda though.


----------



## beenthere

So have they come back out yet Charmed.


----------



## charmedby4

not yet,have not even called,if there not worried I guess I'm not,get this they sent me a bill??I paid them for the by pass 1 that they took out and they took it with them,How can they tell now ,because my humidity is at 35% today, maybe it will have to wait for winter? TY Charmed


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## beenthere

If they aren't doing a blower door test.

Then it does need to be a cooler day with lower humidity.

In reality. It isn't hard to figure out that a 9GPD, is not big enough for a 3000 sq ft house.
Even Honeywell doesn't claim it can do it.


----------



## charmedby4

Hello I heard from them today, very nice man, Guess they want to do a energy audit, on the house,see how leaky it is,He mentioned a different kind of humidifier also, I told him some of the things we talked about, and he was very open also.What kind would u suggest, I guess for loose construction? TY


----------



## beenthere

Myself, I prefer the EWC Autoflow steam humidifiers.

The S2000 is 16 gallons a day. It uses 120 volts like the HW Truesteam.
The S2020 is 22 gallons a day. It uses 240 volts.

While both of these are more expensive then the HW are, they are higher output units. Made from Stainless Steel, not plastic.


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## charmedby4

do u think 1 of these would do the trick,if the house is loose


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## hvaclover

Did you guys know a mister style humidifier works well too?

I use these types of humids when a standard by pass wont do the job.

If a furnace is too large (causing short run cycles not long enough to humidify home air ) or the supply air temp too low (causing a lack of moisture absorption into supply air).

This humidifier can be plumbed into the hot water supply and with the right control configuration run the blower with out a call for heat. 
A water supply temp of between 120*f to 140*f off a wter heater is more than adequate to assure whole house humidification despite home size.


This can be achieved because of the wide range of nozzles available will allow more gallons of water per day.

The annual maintenance is the cleaning or changing of the nozzle. 

Unlike the bulky cumbersome and awkward size of other humidifiers (steam, by-pass, drum-type) the spray humidifier dis-mounts with four screws and fits in the palm of one hand.



HOME | CONTACT | NEWS








To Contractor/Wholesaler Site









Whole-House Humidifiers | Whole-House Air Cleaners | Make-up Air Controls | Replacement Parts | About | FAQ
Flow-Thru | Steam | Drum | Under Duct | Spray | Accessories | Manuals & Parts Lists 

*Spray Humidifiers







*


 *Model 592-9 *

Spray Humidifier for heat pumps and low‐temperature systems 


 *Model 592-22 *

Spray Humidifier designed for fossil fuel furnaces


[View the Relative Humidity Conversion Chart]

[View the Impact of Relative Humidity on Air Quality Chart]


Skuttle offers two central-system Spray Humidifiers, each just 6-1/2 in. (16.51 cm) wide, 5-5/8 in. (14.29 cm) high and 3 in. (7.62 cm) deep. *Model 592-9* is ideal for heat pumps and low-temperature heating systems; *Model 592-22* is specially designed for fossil fuel furnaces. Spray Humidifiers should be used only in regions where the water is naturally soft. 
*How Spray Humidifiers Work*

Activated by the humidistat (which monitors the home’s relative humidity), the Skuttle Spray Humidifier releases a fine mist into the heating system’s ductwork, where it is distributed evenly throughout the home by the furnace blower. A green light indicates when the unit is operating. Six sizes of stainless steel atomizing nozzles allow your contractor to customize the humidifier to your home’s cubic footage and water pressure. 
*Environmental Facts*

Spray Humidifiers use minimal water and electricity, making them economical to operate and environmentally friendly.

*Maintenance*
To ensure continuous, trouble-free operation of the humidifier, the spray nozzle should be replaced and the inline water filter cleaned at the end of each heating season. This can be done by either the homeowner or an HVAC technician. The humidifier and the connecting water valve must be turned OFF at the end of each heating season. 







= Uses minimal electricity







= Uses minimal water


----------



## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> Did you guys know a mister style humidifier works well too?
> 
> I use these types of humids when a standard by pass wont do the job.
> 
> If a furnace is too large (causing short run cycles not long enough to humidify home air ) or the supply air temp too low (causing a lack of moisture absorption into supply air).
> 
> This humidifier can be plumbed into the hot water supply and with the right control configuration run the blower with out a call for heat.
> A water supply temp of between 120*f to 140*f off a wter heater is more than adequate to assure whole house humidification despite home size.
> 
> 
> This can be achieved because of the wide range of nozzles available will allow more gallons of water per day.
> 
> The annual maintenance is the cleaning or changing of the nozzle.
> 
> Unlike the bulky cumbersome and awkward size of other humidifiers (steam, by-pass, drum-type) the spray humidifier dis-mounts with four screws and fits in the palm of one hand.
> 
> 
> Tend to be more sensitive to water conditions.
> And not always the best for applications that the duct work is in an unconditioned space.
> 
> But, they do work.


----------



## beenthere

Probably need to use the 22GPD if its loose.

The 16 would probably handle most days, but not all.
On windy days, it infiltration could be too much.


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## charmedby4

I think that is the brand they are considering, but are not these very expensive, and even more to run?


----------



## beenthere

They are more expensive. Because they aren't under powered over praised wanna be's. 

Sorry, but I think Honeywell goofed making the Truesteams so small.

They cost more to run sometimes, only because they put more humidity into the air.

Sometimes, they can cost less. be cause they will reach the humidity you set the humidistat for and shut off, instead of running 24/7 and not raising the humidity as your current one does now.

The best way to keep operating cost down, is to seal the house tighter, so you need less moisture added to the air.

If they give you a winter leak rate.

Post it, and the house volume they used to determine it, and I can run it for you.

And see if you need a S2020, or S2000.

What humidity level did you want it the maintain this winter when it was 0 or colder outside.


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## charmedby4

30 would be nice it is cold here today,wind chill 5, and I'm at 16%, THAT IS ABOUT AS LOW AS IT GOES IN HERE, EVEN WHEN IT IS WAY BELOW ZERO, do THESE TALL CEILINGS MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE?:wink:


----------



## beenthere

Afraid so.

It adds volume to your house, and so, even though you don't live on the ceiling.
You still have to humidify the air up their.


----------



## charmedby4

Hi Ben there they called me today,now they said a 12 gallon


----------



## beenthere

At 0, you might be able to get to 22%RH(considering that your house was at 18% this year with the 9GPD).
At 30° outdoor temp, it will struggle to get to 30 to 33%RH.

I take it, the Honeywell rep never actually came out to your house.

Here are 2 PDF's showing how many gallons per day you need.
1 at 0° outdoor temp, and 1 at 30° outdoor temp.


----------



## beenthere

Keep in mind.
That on windy days, your house losses more humidity, then it does on calm days.


----------



## garystoys

*Energy cost of humidification*

It does not matter if electric, gas , or oil heat is used the cost of humidifying is basically the same depending on the efficiency of the humidifier. A plant evaporating water through it's leaves uses the same amount of energy to evaporate a pound of water.

It take 960 BTU's to evaporate a pound of water. It also takes one BTU to raise one pound of water one degree F. Therefore one pound of 60F water will require 1112 BTU's to evaporate.

Electric humidifiers put the energy directly into the water to create the steam.

Evaporative pad type humidifier use the heat in the furnace and the air flowing through the furnace to evaporate the water.

The only differences is if the furnace air is cooler the evaporation rate 
will not be as high as if the air were hotter 120F. Also, energy will be required to move the air from the furnace through the humidifier. As much as 25% of the air flowing through furnace could be used to bypass air through the humidifier. This affects the amount of air being distributed to the home. In wintertime the furnace is usually set for the lower air delivery than when air conditioning, so less air is available for the space and the humidifier evaporation requirements. Also even if the humidifier is not operating the blower energy to bypass the air through the humidifier will be constant and the energy wasted.

The electric humidifier will produce the same output no matter what the furnace conditions are as long as the furnace is allowed to operate when humidification is required.

The electric humidifier or a humidifier using gas or oil heat from the furnace will consume the same BTU's to evaporate the water. Depending on the long term blower energy the electric humidifier may be more efficient in producing the water vapor required.

The difference in operating cost will be the difference in the cost of the energy source electric, gas or oil and whichever is larger. Evaporating water cost the same amount of BTU's, the delivered cost is the difference in the efficiency of the furnace or air moving system distributing the water vapor into the structure.

No matter what energy is used the cost of humidification is usually lower than the cost of not humidifing due to the effects of dry air on our possessions and more importantly health and comfort.


----------



## dgbehrends

garystoys said:


> It does not matter if electric, gas , or oil heat is used the cost of humidifying is basically the same depending on the efficiency of the humidifier. A plant evaporating water through it's leaves uses the same amount of energy to evaporate a pound of water.


*I disagree.* Sure the energy to evaporate a lb of water is the same but the cost of the materials/source to generate that energy can be vastly different. The efficiency of the humidifier is also a big factor. When I read your statement I read that you are saying gas costs the same as electricity. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. On to the rest of your note.



garystoys said:


> It take 960 BTU's to evaporate a pound of water. It also takes one BTU to raise one pound of water one degree F. Therefore one pound of 60F water will require 1112 BTU's to evaporate.
> 
> Electric humidifiers put the energy directly into the water to create the steam.
> 
> Evaporative pad type humidifier use the heat in the furnace and the air flowing through the furnace to evaporate the water.
> 
> The only differences is if the furnace air is cooler the evaporation rate
> will not be as high as if the air were hotter 120F. Also, energy will be required to move the air from the furnace through the humidifier. As much as 25% of the air flowing through furnace could be used to bypass air through the humidifier. This affects the amount of air being distributed to the home. In wintertime the furnace is usually set for the lower air delivery than when air conditioning, so less air is available for the space and the humidifier evaporation requirements. Also even if the humidifier is not operating the blower energy to bypass the air through the humidifier will be constant and the energy wasted.


I agree with these statements. Thanks for making those points. I hadn't considered the loss of air supplied to the house that is going through the bypass humidifier.



garystoys said:


> The electric humidifier will produce the same output no matter what the furnace conditions are as long as the furnace is allowed to operate when humidification is required.


I think you mean _"furnace blower is allowed"_ here, and if so then yes I believe this to be true.



garystoys said:


> The electric humidifier or a humidifier using gas or oil heat from the furnace will consume the same BTU's to evaporate the water. Depending on the long term blower energy the electric humidifier may be more efficient in producing the water vapor required.


I think whether the electric humidifier is less costly in the long run depends on lots of things, like you stated, blower efficiency, furnace efficiency (how long/often it runs in the winter), water/sewer and electric rates. Generalizations about electric being better than bypass or vice versa will never hold true because of all the variables mentioned.
To make an informed decision one needs to look at their individual situation. 



garystoys said:


> The difference in operating cost will be the difference in the cost of the energy source electric, gas or oil and whichever is larger. Evaporating water cost the same amount of BTU's, the delivered cost is the difference in the efficiency of the furnace or air moving system distributing the water vapor into the structure.
> 
> No matter what energy is used the cost of humidification is usually lower than the cost of not humidifing due to the effects of dry air on our possessions and more importantly health and comfort.


I agree with this but it contradicts your first statement.

Edit: And for the record, I'm a satisfied electric humidifier owner, however that doesn't mean I wouldn't have been a satisfied bypass humidifier owner.


----------



## garystoys

*energy cost of humidification*

What I tried to say was it depends on the cost of all the energy used. There are still some areas in the U.S. where electricity is less expensive
than gas or oil.

If electricity is more expensive and you have a gas furnace with a bypass evaporative humidifier you will still need the same btu's to evaporate the water and pay for the energy from the gas supply. You will also require the electrical cost of moving the air through the humidifier. If you want to humidify the cost difference between operating electricity versus gas or oil could be very little, not the total cost of the most expensive energy source.

To the person indicating that producing electricity has hidden cost and polution. If you are in areas where electricity is produced by hydro, solar or wind power it is the cleanest energy around. Also, I have never seen a refinery or gas compression plant that did not add some polution to the surrounding air or landscape. They also use a large amount of energy to produce their product.

Again, the benefits of humidifying are greater than the cost.

If the idea is we don't want to use any energy please be the first too turn off your refrigerator, stop using ice in your drinks ( it costs the same per pound as steam, possibly more due to resent refrigeration technology), stop using hot water for your bath, wash dishes with cold water, turn off the tv, get sheep to mow your lawn, walk instead of ride, turn of the computer and cell phones and on, and on, and on. Everything we do requires using energy of some type either directly or at some support facility. We simply have to realize we can't do anything without using it.


----------



## beenthere

It takes less energy to turn 1 pound of 70°F water into 1 pound of 32° ice(remove 214BTUs per pound).
Then the change 1 pound of 70°F water into vapor(add 970BTUs per pound).

PV are very expensiveto make. Consume more energy to make, then they produce in their life time.
Also, lots of byproduct pollution making them.

The Hoover damn makes more electric with less maintainence cost then wind generators do.

A PSC blower can use more electric because of a bypass humidifier.
A ECM VS blower can use less electric because of a bypass humidifier.


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> It takes less energy to turn 1 pound of 70°F water into 1 pound of 32° ice(remove 214BTUs per pound).
> Then the change 1 pound of 70°F water into vapor(add 970BTUs per pound).
> 
> PV are very expensiveto make. Consume more energy to make, then they produce in their life time.
> Also, lots of byproduct pollution making them.
> 
> The Hoover damn makes more electric with less maintainence cost then wind generators do.
> 
> A PSC blower can use more electric because of a bypass humidifier.
> A ECM VS blower can use less electric because of a bypass humidifier.


I wish I had an ECM VS blower :icon_cry:


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## beenthere

Well. You could splurge and get one.

They do have upgrade kits now.

They aren't cheap though, from what I hear.


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Well. You could splurge and get one.
> 
> They do have upgrade kits now.
> 
> They aren't cheap though, from what I hear.


I talked to my HVAC company about it and they didn't think the paypack timeframe was worth it. On another HVAC talk site I have a thread where several different brands of upgrade kits were discussed. This was about a year ago.


----------



## beenthere

You won't get a financial return.

You get better CFM control. Reduced humidity in the summer.


----------



## BobKC

*minerals/scale*

I've been reading posts and I don't see much regarding excessive mineral deposits.

My TrueSteam was installed in April, 2008. It reliably shuts down after only 30 days of operation, and is really dirty. I'm using the standard Honeywell scale inhibitor, but obviously that isn't doing much. I'm keeping the unit set for 30% RH. House was built in 1986 and "seems" fairly tight; I've upgraded door seals, caulked religiously, sealed areas where plumbing stacks go, etc. MY HVAC installer shrugs..."we just installed these starting in 2008 and we're still learning about them".

Any ideas? Any kind of water filter or treatment that might mitigate the problem? Thanks!


----------



## beenthere

Might want to set its self cleaning to 10 hours.

A water filter will help some. But it won't remove soluble content.


----------



## dgbehrends

I have mine set to clean every 10 hours and have the standard water filter that came packaged with the truesteam installed in my water line. I think I posted a picture of my tank in some thread a while back and it gets the white flaky scale deposits in it and the sides of the tank get scaled up some. Following the user manual's tank removal and cleaning procedures on the suggested regular intervals has kept my truesteam working well. My unit was installed Jan 08. It is in it's second season of operation and seems to be doing well. How much scale you get is also a function of how much time your truesteam is actually running each day. During the winter season, I'd guess mine is running about 6 hours a day.


----------



## BobKC

If the cleaning cycle is frequent, doesn't that mean additional water is introduced into the dehumidifier? And, if so, doesn't that mean more mineral deposits? I do see that cleaning breaks deposits from the heating element, as it should. But it should do nothing about the minerals on the sides of the tank and elsewhere, right? The more water, the more minerals. My whole tank fills with crap; I've changed the cleaning cycle, but noticed no significant difference in how long it takes for minerals to clog the system.

I had an old Aprilaire humidifier, and I could get 2 years use out of the water panel, without bothering to clean or change the panel. I know it wasn't an efficient humidifier, but geez, I'd welcome it back!


----------



## beenthere

The cleaning cycles help a little with the tank. Some areas have water that just is not good for that type of steam humidifier.

Yours may be one of those areas.

You may want to use a filter like you would use for a refrigerator with an ice maker.


----------



## gtuva

*Honeywell Reference Guide*

Here is a reference guide from Honeywell that has a lot of info on cost.

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/humidification/truesteam/train/50_1276.pdf


----------



## beenthere

LOL...
Yeah, its a very bias report.
Makes you wonder why Honeywell would make and sell bypass humidifiers if it was true that a Truesteam is so much better.

Also take note. That natural gas is most commonly sold by the therm. Which is 100 cubic foot. But they used a 1000 cubic foot price to make it sound real high.


----------



## secouric

*Highly recommend reverse osmosis*

I have installed several Honeywell truesteam units, all to relatively satisfied customers.

All units have been installed in households where regular flow through humidifiers would not fit. All my installs have been through using the remote option installation method.

Mineral deposit buildup has been my biggest problem, and I can only recommend using a reverse osmosis filtration system. The buildup from these filtration units is nil, nothing accumulates at all. 
The benefit, if you don't already own a filtration system, is clean water to desired areas of your house.

The biggest problem is a lot of R/O units will run out of filtered water and pressure drops throughout the system. There is no doubt, truesteam units use quite a bit of water, but at least it's used well.

Last recommendation I have is upsizing your unit. I have installed the 6 Gallon output Truesteam units in houses 1200 sq ft, and it proved to be too small. The humidifier is on constantly.

All in all this is a fantastic unit. Out of 7 installs only 2 have been defective right out of the box, the rest have worked well.

Good Luck!


----------



## dgbehrends

A local HVAC company sent me a document from their AprilAire sales rep, to rebut honeywell's claims that a TrueSteam will save you money over a bypass. Both companies stack the deck in their favor. The truth is that it is very hard to accurately predict which type of unit will be better. Every situation is different, and I believe in some cases steam is more cost effective and in other cases evaporative bypass is better.


----------



## beenthere

If you got cheap electric, use steam.

If you got expensive water and sewer, use steam.

If you got a 3,000 sq ft house and like to use your wood stove that needs you to open a window 3" to let enough air in for combustion. And still want to maintain 25 to 30% RH in your house when its 20°F or colder outside. Use an EWC Autoflow steam humidifier S2020. 22 gallons a day.


----------



## dgbehrends

^
|
|
What he said.


----------



## spetsnaz

Hello,
First time poster, long time looker. 
In October of 09 I have installed a Trane XV95 (95% efcn) with TrueSteam I think it is 6 gal. My house is only 1,600 sq ft, build in 1986, two floors and crawl space.. New double glass windows with argon gas, new efcn. Door. The only leak I might see is garage door. In any case, I went out and bought a cheap humidity meter from Walgreens, when it was anout 40% outside my humidity inside was about 35%./ Now in Chicago it about 20-30% and my humidity fell to 16%. I cleaned the tank only after 40 days and it had plenty of deposits. I cleaned those out. But the deposits on the heating element are almost impossible to clean. I even tried metal brush!

So good people I need help and here are my questions:
How do I check what size is my unit (they guy that installed moved, I think he said 6 gl)
Is 6,9 or 12gl enough for my 1,600sq ft house?
Can I go after the guy for installing/recommending wrong size unit?
Do I have to clean the deposits of the heating element completely, like when it was new out of the box? Cleaning it or rather wiping it like it says in the manual does NOT work.
Judging by the previous posts looks like I have hard water; my deposits are bad only after 30 days or so?! Do I need different filter?
He also recommended having the fan on all the time because old unit would communicate with humidifier and he also said because upstairs had like 8 dig. Temperature difference this way it will even the while house out by constantly flowing air through/ I did run it on all the time original old owners furnace ( from 1986) but now I have double fan unit, I don’t think I do because humidifier will automatically turn the second fan on.
I kept the humidifier ON almost all the time ( my bill for electric in NOV and Dec, went up $60!!) and it is still 16% outside 25 and inside 72 when I am home when I am gone 68.Does it mean the unit is not big enough?

Sorry for all the questions, NEED HELP!

Thank you in advance.


----------



## beenthere

Doubt your house is anywhere near as tight as you think.
If it was tight. You really wouldn't need a humidifier.

What size furnace(BTU)? Also, what brand and model thermostat(not humidistat, but thermostat)?

If you have a 6. Well, they're ok for adding humidity to a dog house. Anything bigger. And they are too small.

Read the model number of your unit. Is it a 506, 509, or 512.
Set your auto clean to every 10 hours.


----------



## dgbehrends

I'm going to soak my heating element in Vinegar and see what happens. I will post my findings. I have a 12 gallon Truesteam for a 4000 sq/ft house. Last winter I maintained 40% and let my IAQ drop the humidity as necessary with frost protection when the temps dropped. My source of fresh air comes from an air exchanger, and not holes in my walls.


----------



## beenthere

dgbehrends said:


> My source of fresh air comes from an air exchanger, and not holes in my walls.


Got young grand kids.

If so, give them hammers and they can take care of that not having enough holes in the walls for you. :laughing:


----------



## spetsnaz

Doubt your house is anywhere near as tight as you think.
If it was tight. You really wouldn't need a humidifier.- You might be right

What size furnace(BTU)? - 80,000
Also, what brand and model thermostat(not humidistat, but thermostat)?-Lux Products TX9000TS Touch Screen 7 Day Programmable Thermostat. I hset it to run auto fan.

If you have a 6. Well, they're ok for adding humidity to a dog house. Anything bigger. And they are too small. -Yes I do have 6. The contractor told me it should be enough.Don't bother with spending money on 9 and 12 suposedly shuts off after 24 hrs after humidifying.

Read the model number of your unit. Is it a 506, 509, or 512.-
Set your auto clean to every 10 hours-I do not have manual .Can you please tell me how or direct me to the site


----------



## SheeB

Was just googling around and found this thread which I have read through. 

I recently bought a split level home with ~1800 sq ft and high ceilings on the main level. I have fairly bad asthma and allergies and ever since moving into this place they have been bothering me bad! 

Anyhow I recently had all the furnace/ac cleaned and the hvac service person mentioned that the RH was low hovering around 23-24% (measured in the basement) and that could be a cause to my suffering. Typical have the house set to 21C typically and the outside temps here for the winter can be cold (sometimes dropping to -35C to -40C). House was built ~1988 and I would say it would be average for leakage.

I was thinking about getting installed one of these HW 12gallon True Steam humidifiers. Would this suffice for my home to bring the RH up? I was told if the outside temp was below -10C that the RH should be around 30% 

Thanks!


----------



## dgbehrends

SheeB said:


> Was just googling around and found this thread which I have read through.
> 
> I recently bought a split level home with ~1800 sq ft and high ceilings on the main level. I have fairly bad asthma and allergies and ever since moving into this place they have been bothering me bad!
> 
> Anyhow I recently had all the furnace/ac cleaned and the hvac service person mentioned that the RH was low hovering around 23-24% (measured in the basement) and that could be a cause to my suffering. Typical have the house set to 21C typically and the outside temps here for the winter can be cold (sometimes dropping to -35C to -40C). House was built ~1988 and I would say it would be average for leakage.
> 
> I was thinking about getting installed one of these HW 12gallon True Steam humidifiers. Would this suffice for my home to bring the RH up? I was told if the outside temp was below -10C that the RH should be around 30%
> 
> Thanks!


I'm not an HVAC expert but I've learned a lot from beenthere and others on this forum and other forums. A couple of questions first. 
Do you have an air exchanger (HRV)?
What type of furnace/heating system and does it run often?
What temperature do you keep in the house? 
What kind of thermostat do you have?
Any idea how tight your home is, in other words have you looked for drafts in your basement and fixed them?
New/old windows?

Without having the answers and being the house is 30 years old, I think the furnace probably runs a reasonable amount and therefore getting a good bypass humidifier would suffice. However if water is expensive and electricity is cheap in your area then a 12 gallon truesteam might work. The install expense is more than double with the truesteam though.

Knowing how tight your home goes a long way in understating your humidification needs. You could get an energy audit from your utility company or gas company and that would include a blower door test which will tell you how tight your home is. They also take an infrared camera and look for leaks.

Another thing to consider is carpet replacement. Do you know if the previous owners had animals? You may be allergic to the dander that's in the carpet.


----------



## beenthere

spetsnaz said:


> Doubt your house is anywhere near as tight as you think.
> If it was tight. You really wouldn't need a humidifier.- You might be right
> 
> What size furnace(BTU)? - 80,000
> Also, what brand and model thermostat(not humidistat, but thermostat)?-Lux Products TX9000TS Touch Screen 7 Day Programmable Thermostat. I hset it to run auto fan.
> 
> If you have a 6. Well, they're ok for adding humidity to a dog house. Anything bigger. And they are too small. -Yes I do have 6. The contractor told me it should be enough.Don't bother with spending money on 9 and 12 suposedly shuts off after 24 hrs after humidifying.
> 
> He probably thinks self cleaning is the humidifier shutting off.
> 
> Read the model number of your unit. Is it a 506, 509, or 512.-
> Set your auto clean to every 10 hours-I do not have manual .Can you please tell me how or direct me to the site


DIP switches 1 and 2 both set to off. Will cause it to flush(self clean) every 10 hours of operation.


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Got young grand kids.
> 
> If so, give them hammers and they can take care of that not having enough holes in the walls for you. :laughing:


GrandKids??? No need for them, I've got a 22 month old, a 3.5 year old and a just turned 5 year old. When those 3 get going it's like a tornado swept through the house.


----------



## beenthere

dgbehrends said:


> GrandKids??? No need for them, I've got a 22 month old, a 3.5 year old and a just turned 5 year old. When those 3 get going it's like a tornado swept through the house.


Ahhh. You'll have holes in your walls soon if not already.


----------



## SheeB

dgbehrends said:


> Do you have an air exchanger (HRV)? No
> What type of furnace/heating system and does it run often? Hi-Efficiency ICP Natural Gas 75,000 btu installed 1996 with Keep-Rite 1.5 ton A/C
> What temperature do you keep in the house? 21 celcius
> What kind of thermostat do you have? Honeywell RTH-7500D which is being replaced by a Honywell VisionPRO 8000 shortly
> Any idea how tight your home is, in other words have you looked for drafts in your basement and fixed them? No drafts in the basement, defintely some drafts on main level from doors that access garage and rear deck. New weather stripping installed, not much change.
> New/old windows? Front windows are 3 years old, all rear windows are probably 10+ years I would guess if not the original ones.
> 
> Without having the answers and being the house is 30 years old, I think the furnace probably runs a reasonable amount and therefore getting a good bypass humidifier would suffice. Furnaced definitely runs quite often at a cycle rate of about every 20 minutes when its -10C outside with no wind. What's a recommended/good bypass humidifier brand to consider?
> 
> However if water is expensive and electricity is cheap in your area then a 12 gallon truesteam might work. The install expense is more than double with the truesteam though. Water is expensive, electricity is not much cheaper either due to Smartmeter technology now in-use here. Install will be done by my uncle so that expense will be more realistic :thumbsup:
> 
> Knowing how tight your home goes a long way in understating your humidification needs. You could get an energy audit from your utility company or gas company and that would include a blower door test which will tell you how tight your home is. They also take an infrared camera and look for leaks. Something I definitely will consider come Spring.
> 
> Another thing to consider is carpet replacement. Do you know if the previous owners had animals? You may be allergic to the dander that's in the carpet. We have a dog which I am not allergic too. The only place with carpet in the whole house is the basement. That carpet was replaced 2 years ago.


Please see my additions in RED.


----------



## dgbehrends

Honeywell and AprilAire both make good bypass humidifiers, but most brands of bypass humidifier are good. When they give a rating on square footage that a humidifier can handle, they assume 8 foot ceilings. In your case you have the semi-vaulted ceiling in the upper level, I'd guess that adds 200-400 square feet to your house so I would look for a humidifier that supports up to 2500 sq ft. If you are really concerned about your water bill going up you could go the truesteam route as it should handle the load.


----------



## spetsnaz

beenthere said:


> DIP switches 1 and 2 both set to off. Will cause it to flush(self clean) every 10 hours of operation.


What is DIP switch?:wink:
Also the orange clean button lights up every 2 days what should I do?
I can't belive I lost the manual...


----------



## zep

TrueSteam Operating Manual: http://www.forwardthinking.honeywel...midification/truesteam/install/69_2035efs.pdf


----------



## spetsnaz

zep said:


> TrueSteam Operating Manual: http://www.forwardthinking.honeywel...midification/truesteam/install/69_2035efs.pdf


Ahh, thanks. Not I know what the DIP switch is :thumbsup:

Can I DIM or need a technisian to do it?


----------



## hvaclover

This whole thread has me _*"STEAMED":furious:

*_








_* 






















:whistling2::laughing::jester:
*_


----------



## SheeB

dgbehrends said:


> Honeywell and AprilAire both make good bypass humidifiers, but most brands of bypass humidifier are good. When they give a rating on square footage that a humidifier can handle, they assume 8 foot ceilings. In your case you have the semi-vaulted ceiling in the upper level, I'd guess that adds 200-400 square feet to your house so I would look for a humidifier that supports up to 2500 sq ft. If you are really concerned about your water bill going up you could go the truesteam route as it should handle the load.


 
Well I went and took a look and the bypass setup probably will not fit where our furnace is in the crawl space. TrueSteam will make it easier especially if we went the remote setup route.

I am doing the hygrometer calibration now as I have 3 hygrometers that are telling me a variation of 24% RH to 32% RH. Might as well get an accurate idea as to IF I actually need a humidifier before shelling out the cash.


----------



## secouric

*Leaking truesteam*

Anybody experiencing a leaky Truesteam unit yet? A leak from the rear right. I'm beginning to have several issues with these units, very frustrating.


----------



## hvaclover

secouric said:


> Anybody experiencing a leaky Truesteam unit yet? A leak from the rear right. I'm beginning to have several issues with these units, very frustrating.


Is it level?


----------



## secouric

I thought that might be the problem as well, but it is level. I've even tried to tilt it forward slightly, no luck. 

I want to make sure it's not something I've done wrong. If I return this unit, it will be my third return. Definitely starts to look poor on ones reputation.


----------



## hvaclover

secouric said:


> I thought that might be the problem as well, but it is level. I've even tried to tilt it forward slightly, no luck.
> 
> I want to make sure it's not something I've done wrong. If I return this unit, it will be my third return. Definitely starts to look poor on ones reputation.


How did you check for level of unit? Important for you to describe method used.

Barring that:
The steam is striking a surface of some type and condensing and causing the drip.

Did you install the unit or was it a pro install?


----------



## Dezso3

*Digital humidifier doesn't maintain humidity*

Just recently I bought a Bionaire digital warm-mist humidifier for $70, thinking that its digital humidistat would maintain a consistent humidity in my room. However, the humidistat is not able to maintain a consistent humidity in my room, because even when the hygrometer in my room read 65% relative humidity, the digital humidistat on the humidifier read 30% RH. The old humidifier that I had was also digital, and it did the same thing. So why are humidistats on digital humidifiers so inaccurate? And what's the point of buying a humidifier with a digital humidistat if it can't even maintain a certain level of humidity?


----------



## hvaclover

Dezso3 said:


> Just recently I bought a Bionaire digital warm-mist humidifier for $70, thinking that its digital humidistat would maintain a consistent humidity in my room. However, the humidistat is not able to maintain a consistent humidity in my room, because even when the hygrometer in my room read 65% relative humidity, the digital humidistat on the humidifier read 30% RH. The old humidifier that I had was also digital, and it did the same thing. So why are humidistats on digital humidifiers so inaccurate? And what's the point of buying a humidifier with a digital humidistat if it can't even maintain a certain level of humidity?


Start a new thread.
You are hi jacking this one.


----------



## secouric

hvaclover said:


> How did you check for level of unit? Important for you to describe method used.
> 
> Barring that:
> The steam is striking a surface of some type and condensing and causing the drip.
> 
> Did you install the unit or was it a pro install?


I mounted a 3/4" thick wooden board, measuring 20"x20". I placed a level vertically to the board. 

I thought it might be condensation as well but the exterior around the remote hose appears to be okay. 

I installed the unit myself. After watching that YouTube video, it looked like a great weekend job. 

I can hear the tank allowing water to enter in short bursts or I think that's the sound. Every time I hear that sound, water drips out. There is a rubber hose running from the solenoid to the top of the unit. It is at the top around the hose where it leaks. What is the purpose of this hose?


----------



## hvaclover

secouric said:


> I mounted a 3/4" thick wooden board, measuring 20"x20". I placed a level vertically to the board.
> 
> I thought it might be condensation as well but the exterior around the remote hose appears to be okay.
> 
> I installed the unit myself. After watching that YouTube video, it looked like a great weekend job.
> 
> I can hear the tank allowing water to enter in short bursts or I think that's the sound. Every time I hear that sound, water drips out. There is a rubber hose running from the solenoid to the top of the unit. It is at the top around the hose where it leaks. What is the purpose of this hose?


I think it's time to call Honeywell customer service. I am not so sure the level is proper but I prefer you hear it or an alternative reason for the leak from the horse's mouth.


----------



## secouric

hvaclover said:


> I think it's time to call Honeywell customer service. I am not so sure the level is proper but I prefer you hear it or an alternative reason for the leak from the horse's mouth.


I'll check the level again, you're probably right. Thanks for your help hvaclover.


----------



## beenthere

Is the wall you mounted the wood to plum.


----------



## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Is the wall you mounted the wood to plum.



AAAh..wouldn't that come under the heading of level?

Or do I have to throw in a synonym dictionary too?


----------



## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> AAAh..wouldn't that come under the heading of level?
> 
> Or do I have to throw in a synonym dictionary too?


Most people check level as to their right and left. And don't think of checking plum.


----------



## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Most people check level as to their right and left. And don't think of checking plum.


Been if you thought of it don't you think the HO did? I know I and everybody I know would.

Besides he mentioned that in an earlier thread.


----------



## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> Been if you thought of it don't you think the HO did? I know I and everybody I know would.
> 
> Besides he mentioned that in an earlier thread.


If i thought he thought of it. i wouldn't have mentioned it.
And I didn't see him say it earlier.


----------



## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> If i thought he thought of it. i wouldn't have mentioned it.
> And I didn't see him say it earlier.



Well next time look harder and think more!:laughing::whistling2::jester:


----------



## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> Well next time look harder and think more!:laughing::whistling2::jester:


Not for free. :wink:


----------



## secouric

I promise to make sure the wall is not plum. 

Super Bowl break .........


If I tilt the humidifier forward, if the problem was levelling, then that should correct the problem right? 

We shall see. 

That's the first time I've heard "plum" used in a home improvement fashion.


----------



## hvaclover

secouric said:


> I promise to make sure the wall is not plum.
> 
> Super Bowl break .........
> 
> 
> If I tilt the humidifier forward, if the problem was levelling, then that should correct the problem right?
> 
> We shall see.
> 
> That's the first time I've heard "plum" used in a home improvement fashion.


Gotta give Been a break. "Plumb" was the word that cost Been the sixth grade spelling B.:whistling2:


----------



## beenthere

secouric said:


> I promise to make sure the wall is not plum.
> 
> Super Bowl break .........
> 
> 
> If I tilt the humidifier forward, if the problem was levelling, then that should correct the problem right?
> 
> That would depend which way it was out of plumb.
> 
> We shall see.
> 
> That's the first time I've heard "plum" used in a home improvement fashion.


You never heard of a plumb bob.


----------



## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Is the wall you mounted the wood to _*plum.*_



Been you ain't keeping up with me tonight. 
You under the weather or something:huh:?

And yeah, I know Hey Bob is "plump":whistling2::laughing:


----------



## beenthere

I seldom correct spelling errors after its been posted for a while.


----------



## secouric

Oh the comedy of errors....

Plumb bob, hung from ceiling, I'll check it.


----------



## locus123

I was all set to go out and purchase a 6 gallon Truesteam until I found this thread and now I'm hesitant. I was going to do the install myself, only because I had read the Truesteam units are easier - if I go with something else, I'll probably get an HVAC company to do it.

I found a good deal online for the Honeywell Prestige HD thermostat/humidifier, and the 6 gallon unit. We were going to replace the thermostat anyway, so the extra couple $ donig a self install seemed worth it. It comes with the outdoor sensor, thermostat, and wireless to the humidifier. 

House size: Including the basement it's about 1400 sq ft. Without the basement around 1000 sq ft. The basement will be finished in a year or so.
Ceilings: basement 7.5, Main 9, upper 8.5
Furnace: Frigidaire 60000 BTU
HRV: None
Ductwork: new, most of the seams I went around after install and taped up.
House tightness: As part of an energy audit, they did a blower door test after the drywall was installed and it had an ACH of 11 @ 50Pa!! Granted that was no mudding/taping and no trim, and a few walls still at brick only, so once that's installed probably less, but not sure how much less. After seeing some of the sub-1 values, I'm wondering how this can be so high (that'll be for another thread).
Age of home: 90 years, brick construction, but renovated with spray foam basement, and batt insulation everywhere else.
Location: Toronto - humid summers, dry winters.

So, I guess a 2 part question: Is the 6-gallon too small, and is it worth using the outdoor sensor unit?


----------



## beenthere

A 12 will barely work for you at that ACH.


----------



## locus123

beenthere said:


> A 12 will barely work for you at that ACH.


A little off topic, but could that number even be right? Wouldn't my furnace be on all the time if that were the case? It's on for maybe 10 minutes in an hour.


----------



## beenthere

That would work out to around a 1.2 to 1.4 actual air change an hour.

So it may not be correct. or it could be. With good insulation, and depending what type thermostat, it may only need to run once an hour, even with a large amount of fresh air coming in.

At a 1.5 ACH on a 1,000 ST ft house. That would work out to 200CFM. And at 20 outside temp and 70 inside temp, it would come out to a 10,800 BTU loss an hour.

So yes, you could have that much leakage, and only run once an hour if your insulation is good.

What is your indoor humidity and temp, at what outdoor temps and humidity.


----------



## locus123

I have no idea at this point - we don't have a humidifier, nor a humidistat. I think it's dry, but that's just me, I really don't know. As far as outside goes, again, I'm not sure. I think Toronto has relatively high humidity levels all year round, but that's me looking at a "Relative humidity graph" from google for the past year - I'm no climatologist by any stretch.

Edit: indoor temps are around 70 in the winter and 75 in the summer - sorry, I was focused on humidity.


----------



## beenthere

Post link to that graph.


----------



## locus123

http://toronto.weatherstats.ca/relative_humidity

I'm assuming relative humidity is the same as what a humidistat would show, but again, no idea.


----------



## locus123

I didn't realize there was a difference between the ACH they gave me and the actual ACH. That makes me feel a bit better. When they did the test a 10 foot section of wall was bare double brick, none of the drywall had been mudded/taped and none of the trim was installed anywhere (doors, windows, baseboards, etc). I imagine the ACH number should drop once that is completed, so I don't want to estimate too high and end up overkilling the humidifier.


----------



## beenthere

The blower door test puts the house under a high pressure. Not like a normal winter day.

Your area had a somewhat high humidity in the winter. But still requires a fair amount of moisture be added to fresh air to bring the humidity up to a comfort level.

I wouldn't use less then a 9, if you have sealed up that exposed wall area that was open during the test.


----------



## locus123

Thanks beenthere. Yes, I'll have the place sealed up by the time it's installed and working, which will probably be next winter at this rate.

So assuming I go with the 9 gallon, is there any drawback from the steam? It's not going to make my ducts rust because there's too much steam or something?

How do people feel about the outdoor sensor to control the humidity level? Is that more common than the old dial in the furnace room? Do people actually adjust the dial, or once it's set I'll never touch it again? Forgive my ignorance, I've never had a whole house humidifier and I'm trying to wrap my head around it.


----------



## beenthere

You want the outdoor sensor. People with the manual control system, never change it daily like they should(yes daily, since day time temp can be 10° warmer then night time temp).

9 gallons a day, is running 24/7. So at best the 509 can add .375 gallon an hour(1½ quart).

Only way it would rust your ducts. is if installed wrong, or you have uninsulated duct work in unconditioned space.


----------



## dgbehrends

dgbehrends said:


> I'm going to soak my heating element in Vinegar and see what happens. I will post my findings. I have a 12 gallon Truesteam for a 4000 sq/ft house. Last winter I maintained 40% and let my IAQ drop the humidity as necessary with frost protection when the temps dropped. My source of fresh air comes from an air exchanger, and not holes in my walls.


Here they are:
I hate the smell of Vinegar but what the heck, I gave it a try. I unplugged my 12 gallon truesteam unit. Filled up the tank with a mix of 75% Distilled White Vinegar and 25% water. Reattaching the tank full of liquid was a little tricky. I made sure keep the drain in unlocked mode so that nothing dripped out. I let it soak for a little over a day and removed the full tank. Once again this was tricky as I could have easily dumped Vinegar all over my furnace if the tank slipped out of my hand(s). To my disappointment the white mineral build up was still there, however upon further inspection, it had softened to the point where I could easily rub it off with a microfiber cloth and scrape it off with my fingers or a non-scratch scouring pad. I spent about 20 to 30 minutes cleaning it. I installed the tank full of water twice to get the loose crud off. After all was said and done it looked pretty clean. I think I'll go through this process once a year. Hopefully it improves the efficiency of the heating coil. I've attached some pictures.




This last picture shows the filter which I changed and the super fine needle nose pliers I used to pop off the quick connect fittings. I bought a bunch of these filters for $20 bucks each. Honeywell recommends they be changed once per year. My last one was on for a little longer than that and I'm going to cut it open to see how bad it looks inside.


----------



## beenthere

If you let the truesteam heat up between 140 and 180, the scale should break off.


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## dgbehrends

you know, that's what I thought would happen, and in fact I'm guessing that's what the chunks are in the bottom of the unit when I clean it out. However, the manual says to clean that stuff off the coil and there is no way to do it without soaking it first. What do you mean by "let it heat up between 140 and 180"? I'm not aware of a way to control how hot it gets.


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## beenthere

You would manually have to shut it off after it warms up.

What you do, is after you have it all back together the way you did after putting the vinegar in. Is turn it on, set the humidistat up. Then monitor it yourself. Doesn't take but 10 minutes or so to reach 140.
Then sut it off and let it cool back down.


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> You would manually have to shut it off after it warms up.
> 
> What you do, is after you have it all back together the way you did after putting the vinegar in. Is turn it on, set the humidistat up. Then monitor it yourself. Doesn't take but 10 minutes or so to reach 140.
> Then sut it off and let it cool back down.


OK, so your saying that if I inspect it right after a heat up cycle, most of that stuff should be flaked off. We only have a few months left during the humidification season, but that should be enough to get some build up. I'll check the unit and make sure it has build up, then do as you suggest. It would be a lot easier than using vinegar. I just have to make sure it has cooled down


----------



## beenthere

Still need to use the vinegar. So it softens the build up. That way the heat and cooling of the element will tend to break off the build up the vinegar has softened. Let it sit for an hour cool. then you heat it, and then let it cool again.

Vinegar at a 1:6 or as dilute as 1:10 mix should work fine.


----------



## dgbehrends

beenthere said:


> Still need to use the vinegar. So it softens the build up. That way the heat and cooling of the element will tend to break off the build up the vinegar has softened. Let it sit for an hour cool. then you heat it, and then let it cool again.
> 
> Vinegar at a 1:6 or as dilute as 1:10 mix should work fine.


Hmmmm, Even if it's for a short amount of time, I don't think I want to steam vinegar into my house.


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## beenthere

Vinegar won't steam at 140 or 180°F.


----------



## SoCo

Would someone explain to me why the true steam unit needs to be piped into a forced air system, and not simply into the room or rooms where humidity is desired, via the supplied rubber hose?
The reason I ask...here in Colorado many of us use radiant heat, and no ac and thus live in homes with no forced air systems in place.
If one were to follow the remote mounting instructions, could it not simply function the way a freestanding unit does?


----------



## beenthere

Not really.

The nozzle is not designed to use as a room dispense nozzle. So it would have to be mounted high so as not to burn/scald anyone. And would then tend to cause condensation on your ceiling.

Check into teh Aprilaire 360 humidifier. Its designed to be installed in a closet, and vent into the room.


----------



## A2Mich

We have one of our employees using one for the past year or so in his own home....great humidity....not so great with now-rotting ductwork....


----------



## beenthere

A2Mich said:


> We have one of our employees using one for the past year or so in his own home....great humidity....not so great with now-rotting ductwork....


Rotting duct work would be from either not installing it right. Or not maintaining it right.

They tell you they need X amount of clearance.
And if its not set up right and allowed to make steam without the blower running, you will do damage to your system.


----------



## A2Mich

Possibly, but he is one of our estimators and has been in this business well over 25 years. There is a possibility that the problem MAY be due to the mineral content of the supply water, but we're thinking that the problem is simply from the condensed vapor collecting on the bottom side of the ducts, as it is not all being blown out during the blower shutdown.


----------



## beenthere

Shouldn't be any vapor in the duct when the blower shuts off if its both wired right, and set up right. 

What humidistat is being used?

Is a AFS used. is C monitored?


----------



## A2Mich

Sorry, don't know the install details. I believe that it may be a GeneralAire steamer and is probably using whichever humidistat G.A. supplies with it. I may be mistaken, but I believe that we have a few customers using steam humidifiers and are having the same issue, but unfortunately, that's about all I know about it.


----------



## beenthere

Myself, I push the EWC Autoflow steamers, when I sell a steamer(I don't think the Truesteam are worth their money). The Autoflows come in 2 sizes. A 16GPD, and a 22GPD.

I don't have a problem with rotting sheet metal, or mold on duct board systems.
So its most likely the install. Weather its physically installed wrong. or the installer isn't setting up the blower delay off proper, can't say from here.

Next time you happen to be at one of these places. Check the install, and set up. There should be no residual steam after the blower shuts off.


----------



## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Myself, I push the EWC Autoflow steamers, when I sell a steamer(I don't think the Truesteam are worth their money). The Autoflows come in 2 sizes. A 16GPD, and a 22GPD.
> 
> I don't have a problem with rotting sheet metal, or mold on duct board systems.
> So its most likely the install. Weather its physically installed wrong. or the installer isn't setting up the blower delay off proper, can't say from here.
> 
> Next time you happen to be at one of these places. Check the install, and set up. There should be no residual steam after the blower shuts off.


it's that poor Hamtramck water quality thats the problem:laughing:


----------



## Stewart Daniel

*My NEW True Steam doesn't even work!*



charmedby4 said:


> Hi my furnace man put in last week, the true steam 9 gallon,it has run steady for days woke up this morning looked at my new Honey well thermostat said 14% humidity, these guys have not tried anything yet with the true steam, but just took out the by pass 1 I had installed last year no humidity from that thing either,came out 5 times tried a variety of things with that, They were suppose to come yesterday, and look at this but it was-22 below here in Mn so had to many out calls, Please help, this has been going on for 2 years still no humidity!!:furious:


Hello,

I am curious to see what you had found out about your humidifier as you stated NO humidity for 2 years now! Did you ever find out what was wrong with it? Did you know if it was even working? I ask because:

I do commercial refrigeration and AC. Installing this TrueSteam was time consuming; but EASY compared to say a 1000 sqft beer cooler getting hit by lightnig = THAT's what I fix from the disconnect on, a new compressor, relay, BOTH caps, high pressure switches, the disconnect, breaker, one of the condenser fans got hit; and of course a new TXV because when the line gets hit by lightning; the small 'o-rings" in the TXV melt and the TXV starts hunting when running; and the manifold has different superheats, and with 5 evap fans ( none got hit ), the TXV must be on the money; I am one of those guys who feels, that once a load is on a TXV; and someone adjsut's it or changes the factory setting = OUT IT GOES and a new one comes in. my reputation demands it.

anyway, I installed this BRAND NEW TrueSteam with the included humidistat today. I have a Robertshaw digital/auto thermostat in the house = just fine.

Sure I wired the C and R to the low voltage transformer on the board in my gas pak; tapped into the green ( fan) to let the True steam the fan is running in the house; and the humidistat that comes with the unit to adjust the humidity is just a knob; but is fine with me. That is the 2 wires that go to HUM on the board in the truesteam.

By the time I was through, Honeywell tech supposrt was closed, so i cant get any ohm specs from them.

DOES ANYONE KNOW ANY OHM READINGS SO I CAN DIAGNOSE THIS TRUE STEAM?

The power light goes on, BUT the tank does not fill with water! My gas pak runs fine at 3000 degree's............. that means I wired it in right; otherwise, my heater would not work.

It will be 29 here tomorrow morning. Still the weather here in the carolinas is mild, BUT with a "gas pak", the air gets dry and this year, those 2 small Bionaire units ( fill a 2-gallon tank with water on each ) are going 'bye bye", I am not going to listen to them hummmm all winter.

These so called "high efficient" heat pumps give off only 300 degree's of heat IF THAT.

So we have one of those upstairs for 3 bedrooms and the one bathroom.

The hot air from down here goes right UP the staircase anyway.

SO, if anyone knows what is going on with this thing; please help me out , and IF you need help with anything pertaining to equipment in a RESTAURANT........... that is what I do.

Thanks guys,
Stewart


----------



## Stewart Daniel

*NEW True steam wont fill with water!*



beenthere said:


> If you let the truesteam heat up between 140 and 180, the scale should break off.


Hello,

I have been reading this thread and belong to some refrigeration forums like RE and some AC ones too.......... anyway i installed a new truesteam on my home for the first floor only as I have a gas pak downstairs and a split heat pump up and i did the load calculation 9 humidity) and bought the steamer unit that will humidify a 4000 sq ft home,

anyway, I did use the polyphosphate water filter and wired it per the manual ( makes sence) and then read the book on how to fire it up.

The manual says to sit and watch it work, to look for the water move through the 1/4 impaline water line they give you ( RATS love that stuff), that will get chaged to a copper line after I am certain that this thing works!

1. I turned the heat in my home from 70 to 75.
2. I opened the water on the TrueSteam valve ( sure I charged the water filter first )
3. Pluged the TS in to a socket in my crawl space.
4. The power light goes on.
5. The book says no more than 5' of the "2-fan" low voltage 18-22 gauge wire = did that........... I put 5' to the humididtat that comes with it.
6. Waited for the tank to fill!

= NOTHING!

Then I closed my heater; unpluged the Honeywell and powered up in reverse, did the steamer FIRST, then fired up my gas pak.

So then I made sure the top and the bottom covers of the true steam where on right becasue they are a bit tricky and I hung mine from the bottom of the crawl space as I could NOT even use the remote kit as the space there where the main supply duct is off my heater / gas pak is only about 4 ft from the floor in the crawl space to the bottom of the floor to the house.

SO, still nothing but a green power light, I have my 24 volts at the true steam circuit board at "R" and "C" 

I tapped into my fan wire on my thermostat wire ( green on my unit) and my heater runs FINE! the same way it did prior than installing this steamer.

I have NO "service codes", the book says look how many times the red "service light" blinks = troubleshooting.

The tank wont fill, but the power is on. I opened up the bottom tank and she is dry.

By the time I was done , Honeywell tech support was closed and MOST tech supports are closed on the weekend.

Tomorrow, I will physically fill the tank with water from my refrigerator ( carbon pack water filter ) to se if MAYBE, that water level sensor will fire and MAYBE some water will come into the unit!

I triple checked my wiring and ask..............* what do YOU think?*

*any thoughts? Maybe you have seen this problem!*

Thanks,
Stewart


----------



## beenthere

Jumper the HUM terminals on the Truesteam and see if it works. Could be a bad humidistat.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> Jumper the HUM terminals on the Truesteam and see if it works. Could be a bad humidistat.


Thanks for the reply!! =

good thinking!:thumbsup: 

I didn't get any voltage at the humidistat last night; hadn't mounted the humidistat yet,......... layed it on the top of the unit and called it a night.

*One more question, as I can't find this in the install manual here.*

Before I go down there again;

** Will this unit operate with the top cover off? I would like to get some readings.*

I dont physically see a micro switch on the cover anywhere, remember the top of the cover is 6" below the bottom of the floor in my crawl space..........JUST ENOUGH to remove the top cover.

I can't " get over" it to check that and I hate like HECK to have to remove the unit off the mounting braket.

In order to have proper drainage; I had to mount the TS as HIGH as possible and it was a PAIN in the A$$ to get it on the bracket in the first place!

I have MAYBE 1 1/2' from the bottom of this unit to the ground in the space,............. I am sure you know these working conditions !!

Thanks again for your reply!!:thumbup:


----------



## beenthere

No door switch that I know of.

Make sure you have the dip switches set right. if you set it to have a sail or air flow switch. It won't work without the switch being closed.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> No door switch that I know of.
> 
> Make sure you have the dip switches set right. if you set it to have a sail or air flow switch. It won't work without the switch being closed.


Thanks,

I dont have a "air prooving" device on my duct; but I tapped into my fan= "G" ( green wire on my Robertshaw) and went in the "GT" on the TrueSteam and went from "GF" on the TS back on to my HVAC.

and I have 1 & 2 DIP's "up" for cleaning settings with water filtration ( according to manual here ) and 4 is down to receive the "R" signal off the HVAC unit..........."C" and "R" are tapped into my board as the low 24 volt sending signal that the HVAC IS on.

My Robertshaw thermostat has a "Y" and a "G" and are isolated or seperate from eachother; and am using the humidistat that came with the unit going to HUM & HUM.

My gas pack worked fine all night with the true steam unplugged.


----------



## beenthere

R and C of the TS should be powered 24/7. Or else it goes into a 5 minute wait state every time it loses 24 volts to R and C.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> R and C of the TS should be powered 24/7. Or else it goes into a 5 minute wait state every time it loses 24 volts to R and C.


when it goes into this 5 minute "wait mode" , does the red service light blink?

ALL mine does is have the green power light on!


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> R and C of the TS should be powered 24/7. Or else it goes into a 5 minute wait state every time it loses 24 volts to R and C.


Let me open my grandaire package ( came with the house) and see if "R" and "C" are a constant 24 volt.

will let you know.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> R and C of the TS should be powered 24/7. Or else it goes into a 5 minute wait state every time it loses 24 volts to R and C.


"R" and "C" are a constant while the thermostat is on heat whether heating or not.

Line voltage is good.

The neutral going into the wiring looks a bit like someone took a 115v soldering iron to it, but all connections look good.

Now I the "humidifying" light is blinking, yet the water is on, and there is no water in the tank and was off all night and unplugged.

As I was near the unit and reached for the humidistat: I moved the wires going into the unit and heard a relay fire! I had bought a new 25' spool of "2 fan" wire yesterday; and it was new..............who would have thought! 

I removed the "2 fan" low voltage wire run to "R" and "C" and located a section of it that looked to be "mashed" or "crushed" in a way. After closer inspection I stripped the insulation and found a section of wire that was defective; cut IT out and soldered it back together and the unit began to fill.

I will fish the line up into the house when my wife canm help me fish it through,

I want to thank you for your help and advice!

Thanks!


----------



## Stewart Daniel

*Thanks for your help beenthere!*

Note this was a bit of a custom install; but everything is level and the job came out real good, I will get a pal here to help me fish the humidistat wire up into the bedroom; since this is my home.

*Now it's time to acid wash my OWN coils!* I have lowered restaurant temps here in a 105 degree heat index; simply by acid washing coils; NO refrigerant and NO adjustment to the AC units,

One of my customers would come in at 5am in the heat of summer out here, and his restaurant would be 78 ambient with his thermostat set on 65.

After acid washing his condenser coils with a foaming cleaner and used a non-foaming "nickel safe" on the evaporator coils , he came in the next am and the space was st 68!

And because many HVAC's on roof's have the supply duct going straight down into the space; I use the no foaming on the evap; smells nice too!

I FEEL "air flow" is the BIGGEST problem I see out there; many residents simply dont get the "efficiency thing" when it comes to cleaning their home AC coils,

HECK, the money saved in electricity PLUS the improved efficiency pays for the TIME and the COIL CLEANER 10 times over!:whistling2:

Thanks again for your help "beenthere"!

Have a GREAT weekend.


----------



## beenthere

Your welcome.
Glad it working.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> Your welcome.
> Glad it working.


I have to say that I am impressed with it! Thanks again; I always will take some good advice............but I have to ask you =

I WONDER though, if you know,

*DOES THAT "HUMIDISTAT" that came with it sence humidity?* IT DOES NOT SAY IN THE SMALL BOOK ON that topic, that came with the install and owners manual. Mine came with a book ONLY for the humidistat.

1.* IF it DOES NOT sence humidity*, then WHY does it say to* cut a HOLE in my duct* to mount it to the duct?

2. ALSO says, for indoor, keep away from drafts and humid places like kitchens.

3. When I spoke to the honeywell tech guy before installing this on Wednesday, ( I had fatter 16 gauge wire for the job ) I asked him! *He said IT DID NOT sence humidity!*

I have the knob all the way "jacked up" as it is still down in the crawl space and the unit wont turn on unless I am right under "full open".

I wanted to see the humidity level here in our home since there is a "freeze warning" tonight. And I have a unit on my wall that gives me the temp out at the lake, outside on the patio, and in here = my ambient, the clock is from the atomic clock; I am sure you know wnhat I am talking about.

It also gives all three humidity readings in all 3 places and can ad 2 more "sensors", it was $43 at Walmart!.............. something like that = CHEAP for a guy who loathes fall = ALLERGIES and winter = bad KNEES!

Please let me know!

Thanks againmy friend !!


----------



## beenthere

Yes, it senses Relative humidity. Usually, there is a piece of material in it that expands and contracts as its moisture content changes. This opens or closes a switch as the humidity changes.

The crawlspace is probably too humidity for it to work. Unless its just about set at max/full open.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> Yes, it senses Relative humidity. Usually, there is a piece of material in it that expands and contracts as its moisture content changes. This opens or closes a switch as the humidity changes.
> 
> The crawlspace is probably too humidity for it to work. Unless its just about set at max/full open.


OK, makes sence!

ONE more question on it, the box was open at CC Dickson where I bought it and my humidistat* has a 2 piece white plastic housing with NO back*, it has a *square hole* on the back housing,

It came with a template for mounting, 2 decals, and 1 black foam gasket; all this came in a white box in the honeywell box,

*1. IS there a piece missing to the back of the white plastic housing that closes it off to go into a wall?*

I see the small book here shows a part* I dont have* with 4 screw holes; one at each corner.

I wonder if this humidistat might have been returned.

Thanks!


----------



## beenthere

I don't think it is.

These days. I don't use the cheap humidistats. i use the ones that also use an outdoor sensor to automatically reduce humidity as it gets colder outside. To prevent frosting on condensing on the windows.


----------



## Stewart Daniel

beenthere said:


> I don't think it is.
> 
> These days. I don't use the cheap humidistats. i use the ones that also use an outdoor sensor to automatically reduce humidity as it gets colder outside. To prevent frosting on condensing on the windows.


Funny you said that!

I am looking at the Prestige color HD thermostat as we speak = http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-THX9321R5000-Prestige-Color-HD-Thermostat-11464000-p

plus the presitge IAG controller module = more $$$$$$$$$!

What do you think of the prices here at thia site? http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-THM5421R1005-Prestige-IAQ-Equipment-Interface-Module

They have the TrueSteam unit I bought on sale for $279.99 + shipping, I paid $299 here locally!


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## beenthere

I don't pay retail for them. So I don't know how their price compares to other retail places.


----------



## ottawasenators

*TrueSteam installed with a wood furnace*

Hi,

I have recently bought a Truesteam 12 gallons with the 20 feet remote installation kit which has been installed on the RETURN instead of the SUPPLY by the installer because the plastic remote duct nozzle was not designed for the extreme hot temperate of my *wood furnace*. 

The current installation location is not working (condensation is forming). Any other place on the RETURN is not an viable option. Unfortunately, the only viable option is on the SUPPLY where the extreme temperature is too hot for the plastic nozzle. For sure, the plastic remote duct nozzle has to be replaced by a metal remote duct nozzle. So far, i have not find such part over the internet. Honeywell is not making a metal nozzle. 

My installer is useless to find a solution. 

I was thinking of using a copper line (or any appropriate material) to replace both the plastic remote nozzle and a few feet of the remote hose where the hot temperature is more problematic as a homemade solution. 

Any suggestion/help on how to install this homemade solution?

Thanks


----------



## beenthere

Post a pic of how it is installed in the return duct.


----------



## hvaclover

Don't think you can use them on wood burners,,,,


----------



## bluejuice71

Hello,
I was hoping somebody had experience with the Honeywell Truesteam humidifier. I am looking to get one installed, but have a concern. I have a two story house with about 1600 sq. feet on main level and 1600 sq. feet on second story (all the bedrooms of the house are on second story). Due to the local code I cannot have the unit installed in the attic, so it must be installed on main level. Therefore the steam will only be distributed on the main level. Does anyone have any experience with this situation and will any of the humidity reach the second level? We sleep upstairs & that is where we primarily wanted the humidifier. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## beenthere

Yes. Some of it will reach the second level.

Is there a closest near the supply plenum of the upstairs furnace/air handler. The Truesteam has a remote hose connection that you could use. If you could mount it in a closet. The hose for the 12 gallon model, is either 12 or 20 foot.


----------



## geodavky

*Junk junk junk*

DO NOT BUY THIS PIECE OF CRAP!!!!!
It is not reliable and you will spend a fortune keeping it going.
Honeywell will not talk to you unless licensed.


----------



## hvaclover

Ok geodavky. This why there are DIYs and there are Pos.

True Steam is has a proven record. They need maintenance like every other product. 

It is not a POS as you describe. Honeywell would not talk to you? That to me is strange.

What exactly was it doing?


----------



## visum

*Warranty issues with Honeywell*

My 12 gal truesteam worked fine for the first year and now it is broken. The heater element would not heat the water, but it is receiving the voltage. (it blinks 14 times when performing the diagnostic)
According to Honeywell the whole unit needs to be replaced, but they would not provide a replacement unit to me because I purchased it brand new off eBay and the seller is not in business anymore (would not reply my emails and closed his eBay store). Also they don't like the idea that I installed it myself...
To make the long story short: I ended up with $400 humidifier "under warranty" to be trashed just because I can't proof Honeywell that my eBay seller didn't steal the humidifier and then sold it to me. Also, they do not sell the heating elements, I searched the web for hours, no aftermarket elements available.

Just my lesson learned with Honeywell's 5 years warranty!

Any idea where I can get a new heating element?


----------



## dgbehrends

*I don't mean to be harsh....but*

I think the lesson learned is to purchase it from a reputable dealer and have it installed by a reputable dealer so that the 5 year warranty is valid. I remember reading somewhere that it was not valid unless installed by a dealer. 

edit: what's the part number?


----------



## visum

The humidifier number is HM512DG115. I don’t know the heating element number.
Does someone wants to buy my humidifier for parts? Please make offers.


----------



## hvaclover

visum said:


> My 12 gal truesteam worked fine for the first year and now it is broken. The heater element would not heat the water, but it is receiving the voltage. (it blinks 14 times when performing the diagnostic)
> According to Honeywell the whole unit needs to be replaced, but they would not provide a replacement unit to me because I purchased it brand new off eBay and the seller is not in business anymore (would not reply my emails and closed his eBay store). Also they don't like the idea that I installed it myself...
> To make the long story short: I ended up with $400 humidifier "under warranty" to be trashed just because I can't proof Honeywell that my eBay seller didn't steal the humidifier and then sold it to me. Also, they do not sell the heating elements, I searched the web for hours, no aftermarket elements available.
> 
> Just my lesson learned with Honeywell's 5 years warranty!
> 
> Any idea where I can get a new heating element?


Aw, Dude, that sucks world class vacuum!
One of the reasons I won't buy my hvac parts on line....no recourse if it goes south.


----------



## Buhas

visum said:


> Just my lesson learned with Honeywell's 5 years warranty!


Sadly my TrueSteam just decided it was ok to run without water. Heating element melted the damn plastic. Finally the heating element stopped working by design because the over-heating prevention terminal melted. The unit worked without a hitch for 2 years.

I believe honoring the warranty only if "pro installed" is complete bull****. The unit was installed by myself and worked fine for two years while doing routine maintenance. Not many ways to screw up the install anyway. Yes, the TrueIAQ wiring was a bit tricky, but manageable. As far as the operation of the unit goes, it makes no difference if a pro installed it or not. This is a screw-up caused by the controller design of the unit possibly in conjunction with the water sensor or water valve malfunction.

Ok, I'm done. Thanks for listening.


----------



## dobbsj

*Need help with TrueSteam and Prestige IAQ*

I just replaced my ductwork on first floor and used two Prestige IAQ's stats, zone control HZ432, and TrueSteam 12 gallon unit. All are wired together. Wireless is not used although they all have Redlink capability. I have Trane 3 ton gas pack with two stage gas heat.

My installer has tried a couple of wring options for the TrueSteam. (1)24 volts was connected to top two connectors on TS and 2 wires to HUM 1 and 2. This did not work I believe because dip switch 4 and 5 were incorrect. Service light was on and showed 15 blinks indicating it was looking for an air switch. (2) At my insistence he then wired it us similar to the vision pro IAQ diagram. This called for setting the TS to come on independent of fan. 

Does anyone know if I could wire this up to come based on the choice in the Prestige stat. Sometimes I only want the TS to come o when heat is called for and other times I want it to force the fan on. My old Honeywell Humidifer seemed to offer more flexibility. But was junk otherwise.

Would a wireless adapter give more options? Does Honeywell publish wiring diagrams using Prestige IAQs in wired mode? The installation manual just does not show enough wiring options for the contractor.

These are located in the craw space and would like to tap into the Redlink signal to troubleshoot and monitor the system. Sorry for the length of this.


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## hvaclover

\Gee, I don't know. You seem to want to tell the contractor his job.

Had you made that demand on any number of contractors any where they would have been with in their rights to walk on you for wasting their time.


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## dobbsj

hvaclover said:


> \Gee, I don't know. You seem to want to tell the contractor his job.
> 
> Had you made that demand on any number of contractors any where they would have been with in their rights to walk on you for wasting their time.


No need to be RUDE. Not sure why you felt it necessary for that comment!

The contractor's company is doing a great job. But I have some limited experience, 30 years, in industrial and refinery control systems before retiring and offered to help where I can. The Honeywell documentation that is supplied to him is very sketchy. I want to understand the control option with TrueSteam and the Prestige stats.

Look at the latest update for the installation of the Prestige with zone control and you will understand. After three tries at trying to fix the system the owner of HVAC company and I reviewed the installation together. 

I would value your input if it is constructive.


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## hvaclover

dobbsj said:


> No need to be RUDE. Not sure why you felt it necessary for that comment!
> 
> The contractor's company is doing a great job. But I have some limited experience, 30 years, in industrial and refinery control systems before retiring and offered to help where I can. The Honeywell documentation that is supplied to him is very sketchy. I want to understand the control option with TrueSteam and the Prestige stats.
> 
> Look at the latest update for the installation of the Prestige with zone control and you will understand. After three tries at trying to fix the system the owner of HVAC company and I reviewed the installation together.
> 
> I would value your input if it is constructive.


You told the guy what to do. It's his job to figure out why the controls don't work as you wanted. 

Had a problem myself with the wording of a de-humidify and humidify terminal. I finally worked it out for myself. Than a week later the factory 
tech assit dept issued a bulletin in plainer language and added that a dip switch needed to be set in power.

So problems do come up but the contractor is the one who should be making technical decisions...not the customer.

I did a new vs furnace for an electrical engineer and although he knew a lot about the control circuits he didn't try to impose his way. He gave some constructive suggestions which we were free to accept or reject.

He trusted me to get it right and the reason he did was because if I didn't know the answer to a issue I knew where to find the answer.


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## beenthere

Since the vast majority of people want the humidifier to come on one way or the other. The stats are nt made to easily change from one method to the other.


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## dobbsj

hvaclover said:


> You told the guy what to do. It's his job to figure out why the controls don't work as you wanted.
> 
> Had a problem myself with the wording of a de-humidify and humidify terminal. I finally worked it out for myself. Than a week later the factory
> tech assit dept issued a bulletin in plainer language and added that a dip switch needed to be set in power.
> 
> So problems do come up but the contractor is the one who should be making technical decisions...not the customer.
> 
> I did a new vs furnace for an electrical engineer and although he knew a lot about the control circuits he didn't try to impose his way. He gave some constructive suggestions which we were free to accept or reject.
> 
> He trusted me to get it right and the reason he did was because if I didn't know the answer to a issue I knew where to find the answer.



Maybe I was a little unclear. They did what they and Honeywell technical rep said for three times. It probably could be solved if the contractor was supplied with more information according to him. He has asked.

I did not "tell him" what to do. But I did insist and pay for that calculations on Manual J and D be done and a wiring diagram be provided. That is when i found a problem. The contractor thinks it may be a defective TrueSteam. Hopefully when the regional honeywell rep comes out the problem can be solved.

I have gotten along great with the HVAC contractor for years. Hopefully your customers have an equally good relationship with you.


What i do not like so far about the Prestige and Truesteam is that the Truesteam does not force the fan to stay on until the water temperature gets below a certain temperature as in the old HE420. Maybe that is not necessary due to the small water volume. Next the installation manual only shows the installation of the TrueSteam with Humidification is set to Operate Independent of Fan. I prefer to only operate when heat is on and not for the humidifier to force the fan on.

I am sure this issue can be solved. Hopefully someone else can have a constructive suggestion.


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## beenthere

Too late now. but if you only want humidification when the heat is on. A flow through humidifier would have been a better choice.

Most modern furnaces have a small delay when the fan call is disabled, and it is usually enough for teh Truesteam. Its one of the flaws of the truesteam.


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## blaster

Hello,

Has anyone installed a TrueSteam with Hi-Velocity systems?


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## heatycooly

It works great but requires a lot of maintenance you must clean out the coil every couple months depending on your water also needs to be on a dedicated circuit as it draws allot of amps how big is your home it comes in 110 & 220 volts so make sure you size it properly as far as wiring it up it is pretty easy I recommend the honeywell IAQ THERMOSTAT


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## heatycooly

Stream humidifiers works much better than any other humidifier but you must have the fan on continuosly to achieve comfort so can really raise energy bills I recommend using it on a variable speed blower


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## beenthere

heatycooly said:


> Stream humidifiers works much better than any other humidifier but you must have the fan on continuosly to achieve comfort so can really raise energy bills I recommend using it on a variable speed blower


The humidifier's control can control the fan, sized right it shouldn't have to run all the time. The electric bill will go up though, nature of the beast.


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## blaster

Hello,

Perhaps I can be more clear. I have already installed the model HM509w for a 1800 townhouse. My problem is that when the home requests humidity the fan is really loud like a jet taking off. It drives me crazy all winter long.

When they installed it the technician said that the fan should be the same as the air to blow the humidity into the home.

Can I make it come on when the heat is working because I can control the heat fan or this is how it should be?

Also have a thermostat called Globe which is horrible. Just purchased a Honeywell and should be better than the Globe.

Any help would be of great help.

Cheers,


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## beenthere

Yes, it can be wired to only run when the heat is on.


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## blaster

Is that the correct way or is it the correct way I have it wired right now?


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## heatycooly

The way you have now, if its on the heat cycle it won't warm up the steam before the call for heat is done


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## blaster

Thanks Heatcooly,

All-in-all the system works great it's just when the fan kicks in is really lot. I was hoping by using the the fan from the heat will be more quiet.

Thanks


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## beenthere

The Truesteams take roughly 10 minutes to heat the water up to make steam.

Your furnace may or may not have the ability to have fan only speed slowed down to heat speed. Look in the install manual.


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## blaster

It doesn't only the heat does. I install a switch that had the markings of a fan instead it was a constant fan. That runs all the time.

Looks like I'm stuck hearing F-16 taking off all winter long. Other than that the unit works perfect.

I also suggest for home owners to install RO system from Honeywell it's great.


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## matthewb

Any advice on cleaning this? I am about at the end of my first season with the 6 gallon unit.


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## hvaclover

matthewb said:


> Any advice on cleaning this? I am about at the end of my first season with the 6 gallon unit.


How about reading the manual. There is more to maintaining a steamer than just cleaning.


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## matthewb

hvaclover said:


> How about reading the manual. There is more to maintaining a steamer than just cleaning.


I did read the manual. I was curious if anyone had any tips based on personal experience, that's all.


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## hvactech126

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/tuneup/module7/index.htm


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## ColoDIYGUy

*TruSteam water sensor*

A number of people have experienced failures with the water sensor in their TrueSteam humidifiers. I now belong to that group. Honeywell is pretty hostile to DIY people, so you might have to get an HVAC guy to come look at yours when it quits. Anyway, these sensors seem to fail pretty often. If yours is broken, Honeywell will send you 2 new ones, presumably because they know that the replacement is going to fail as well. And, they are now telling people that the sensor should just be replaced every year as a maintenance item. I don't know if they'll just keep sending free replacements, but I kind of doubt it. (It would be nice if they redesigned them so the plastic they're made of didn't crack and fail.) Plus, if you follow the rules, you'll have a $113 service call (what it cost me, anyway) to have some guy come and replace it for you. Kind of harsh to have to spend $160 (if you have to buy the sensor, too) every year for the life of the unit to keep it working, on top of the energy costs, and the $25 water filter that should be replaced every 6 or 12 months, depending on how hard your water is. Don't get me wrong - I like what the TrueSteam does, but it's not clear it's worth it. At a minimum, Honeywell ought to let you replace the sensor yourself, if you're so inclined. It's not really very hard to do, and takes about 10 minutes time.


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## fiapo

*Thinking about buying one*

Hello Everyone,

I'm thinking about buying one TrueSTEAM 12gallon and installing my self. 
The problem is that I saw here that a lot of people here are not happy with their TrueSTEAM humidifier, so If I decide to go with something else, what whole house humidifier should I go instead? 

Thank you in advance

*
*


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## hvactech126

I would recommend a flow thru design humidifier either bypass or powered.


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## beenthere

EWC Autoflow, S2000.


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## gfrancke

My unit is on its 3rd season. It worked Ok but kinda a PIA and about an extra $100 a month on the electric bill. Went to turn it on for the season after a good cleaning and am getting 6 flashes on the red light ( I think it ended last season with that code and I just shut it off). The water level sensor seems fine and the outflow is fine. Is there any way to test the solenoid valves? I seem to think I had trouble with them before as I found I had 2 more in a box which I can't remember if they worked or not. It won't fill or drain. Are they AC or DC, what voltage?


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## reeferman

I have 2 true steams installed with a enviro zone panel and iaq thermostats I am having a hard time controlling them today they would no shutt off I have just the 2 hum terminals wired from zone valve to each humidifier is there a way I can wire this to work ? Also when I unpluged one the other stoped humidifing


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## beenthere

What terminal are you using on the zones dampers?


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## reeferman

beenthere said:


> What terminal are you using on the zones dampers?


Not sure what you mean I have 2 zones I am coming off the 2 hum terminals on zone panel and going to each humidifier. 2 hum terminals


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## beenthere

Each truesteam has its own transformer. By connecting both to the same terminals of the zone panel, you probably burnt out one of them. need to add isolation relays.


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## MooseMan

*Struggling to get my house to 40%*

Looks to be a fair amount of humidification experience here so let me throw out this question-- I'm trying to get my house to 40% and it's been a few weeks - not quite there. Here's the background:

We live in Colorado (ie very dry) and two years ago installed a Truesteam 12gal on a Vision Pro IAQ w/ the outdoor temp sensor. It took a full week to get the house to 30% humidity and it maintained it nicely through the winter. I did not go higher because of window condensation - even with frost control on. Last year we replaced our aluminum framed windows with Pellas - condensation no longer a problem.

A few weeks ago a technician was here servicing the furnace. He suggested we increase the temp from 66 to about 70 (wouldn't cost that much more) and more importantly try and get the house to 40% (he said that is an optimal humidity level, which is consistent with much of what I have read) - to swell the house and tighten it up + added comfort. So that's what I did.

Knowing the house has probably never been at 40% I figured it would take a week or so - and it took that long to get to 35 / 36%. Now I'm at 2 weeks of continuous running on the Trusteam and am waking up to about 37/38%. It'll drop to 36% and increase to 38% at different points in the day. (night temp is 65, day temp is 70). I turned off the frost control while we work up the humidity. So it seems like my gains are planing off, though there might still be some forward movement.

About the house - House built in 1976. Standard wall insulation. New windows. Nicely insulated attic (about 2' of attic cat). Canister lights also insulated/sealed. 2400 sq ft.

Should I wait this thing out / could it be taking this long for the house to soak up the humidity trying to get to 40%? Or is this unachievable? I could easily back down to 35% and hold that. Can't wait to see this electric bill!


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## beenthere

Your tech gave some bad advice/info. You don't raise the humidity to swell the house. And increasing indoor temp from 66 to 70 can raise your heating bill anywhere from 6 to 10 percent. Along with making it much harder to get the humidity level up. The warmer the house is, the more moisture that must be added to reach the desired humidity level.

First thing to do. is tighten up your home. Seal those wall switches and receps, along with any can lights you may have. And repair or replace any worn door seals. If you have an attic, and an indoor access to the attic, seal it also. Also seal your duct system if its in the basement or attic. And seal the supply and return registers to the floor/ceiling/wall, what ever type register you have.

Also, recheck that the windows were installed right, an you have no leakage around them.

After doing ll that, your humidifier might have a chance at reaching 40%RH in your house.


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## MooseMan

Thanks--

Maybe I should just pick some medium numbers I can maintain. 35% humidity, 68 degrees. Is there a recommended nighttime temperature setting? -5 degrees or something?

Windows are pretty tight, all sealed up w/ expanding foam. Only one window is posing a problem, it's over a window box that I don't think was insulated below - so it doesn't get circulation and is a bit colder.

Entire supply system is enclosed - I could go around and seal the registers/returns.





beenthere said:


> Your tech gave some bad advice/info. You don't raise the humidity to swell the house. And increasing indoor temp from 66 to 70 can raise your heating bill anywhere from 6 to 10 percent. Along with making it much harder to get the humidity level up. The warmer the house is, the more moisture that must be added to reach the desired humidity level.
> 
> First thing to do. is tighten up your home. Seal those wall switches and receps, along with any can lights you may have. And repair or replace any worn door seals. If you have an attic, and an indoor access to the attic, seal it also. Also seal your duct system if its in the basement or attic. And seal the supply and return registers to the floor/ceiling/wall, what ever type register you have.
> 
> Also, recheck that the windows were installed right, an you have no leakage around them.
> 
> After doing ll that, your humidifier might have a chance at reaching 40%RH in your house.


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## beenthere

Do the registers and returns. they can leak more then 50% of the total air flow, and cause low humidity in the winter, and high humidity in the summer.

Sealing the receps and switches, will also help to reduce your heating and cooling bill.

You may find 68 and 35%RH comfortable enough. No one recommended temp for all people.


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## datalinksvc

I am on my third and final season with a 12 gallon truesteam. It will maintain 35% RH in my 1700sf main level. 40% requires the unit to run continuously. I am all electric with a 4 ton heat pump and a 20kw heat strip backup in the midwest.

Water sensor failed again - 2 blinks. Climate Doctors in Nebraska has been out of stock for two weeks most likely because of so many failures. Just received the new black water sensor. 6 blinks now. This unit is junk. I have a whole house water softener and have changed the Truesteam filter every year per Honeywell recommendations. I will be purchasing the Aprilaire like most other scorned Honeywell users.:furious:


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## Cliffschum

Can anyone tell me what might cause a Trusteam to stop working, and not show ANY blinking error lights ? Ready light is on, IAQ humidity set point is above actual, etc... Worked fine last year, now its dead. I took a chance and replaced the water level sensor (new 002 level) , thinking maybe it doesn't trigger a code -- but no luck. Could try the solenoid next, but would first appreciate insight from group. 

Thanks for any help..


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## Cliffschum

*Trusteam not working*

Please ignore last post. I've got unit working again, but now struggling with how to get air handler fan to kick on with humidifier....IAQ 25 setting, DIP #4, etc.


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## Cliffschum

*HM 512 -- fan sync issue.*

Just installed the new water sensor to get my unit working again. However, I now cannot get the air handler fan to work in sync with the Trusteam. (Not sure why a new sensor would affect the programming. But, I never received a LED error code on the water sensor either -- I just replaced the part based on symptoms and info from this forum. )

The water starts boiling and the fan won't kick on...which is obviously not good. I've tried changing IAQ Setting 25 to each of the three different settings with no success ...25-1 turns off the Trusteam humidity, but 25-2 and 25-3 just allow the Trusteam to keep boiling without turning the fan on to circulate. I've tried both settings for DIP 4 to no avail.

Read both the Trusteam and IAQ manuals, and wiring appears to be OK...so I'm still assuming its a programming issue..

Has anyone else experienced this problem ? Did I miss something in the manuals ? Once again, I would think that one of the 15 LED error code would be flashing..

Any help or guidance is appreciated.


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