# Nice looking roof?



## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

the grande is just larger shingles with larger exposure area,depending on your home,it could look out of proportion,plus if you have existing sidewall flashings,you`ll want to use the regular size shingle,otherwise you`ll have to remove siding against the roof,and replace all your stepflashing as the exposure/size will be inadequate for the grande


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

I don't trust that cheezy flap on the Grande one bit. I've done one big timberframe with them. We chose the Grande because everything else on this house was oversized so regular lams would have looked very busy. Turned out very nice but I still am not very confident in that flap.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

I say certainteed landmarks or tamko heritage. Seriously speaking i seen gafs put on a new construction house 6 months later i couldn't believe how much that roof fadded out. ITs a completely different color now.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

never saw that ever


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

IMO stay away from GAF this year because gaf just bought elk and merged the shingles. In essence the shingles are brand new this year. Give them a few years to iron out the wrinkles and work out the bugs. Just my opinion. Plus since I am a roofer I am not a fan of do it yourself grade materials that are sold at hoem depot like GAF. 

I am with 747 I am a certainteed Landmark man myself. I also do a fair ammount of Tamko Heritage. I am certified by Certainteed both as a SHingle Application Wizard and a Quality Master. My company is a Select SHingle roofing company. The point? I could have just as easily been certified by GAF but choose Certainteed instead because I think they make a better product.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

gaf has been a solid performer for decades in the east,certainteed is also a top grade performer,but has had problems with certain product lines,I like certainteed,but here gaf is the better quality shingle,apparently in different locales,different factories which supply the product have better quality than others,on the west coast ELK has been a top performer---so it basically boils down to where you`re located,as to the available quality of said products


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

also GAF applicator programs are much more costly than Certainteed


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Grumpy thats impressive being certified by certainteed. You should get put on there website if your not already. There is a button to click for a certified roofing contractor and just enter zipcode. Hey that can't hurt for buisness unless they charge big money for that.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

747 said:


> Grumpy thats impressive being certified by certainteed. You should get put on there website if your not already. There is a button to click for a certified roofing contractor and just enter zipcode. Hey that can't hurt for buisness unless they charge big money for that.


Its free after you and the crew members pass the tests.

The CT rep is coming to my shop next Friday to provide a 1:40 minute video and then proctor the tests for my guys.

He was just here yesterday afternoon and seems like a very knowledgeable guy.

I don't favor the GAF program, because their main impotus is to receive a fee from a contractor to call them certified.

Seems sort of biased, being a high fee arrangement to qualify.

Plus, GAF Certifies all of those out of town Hail Storm Chasers and they don't even have any actual real legit employees, but underpaid and possibly illegal subs instead.

Ed


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## ordinarymiracle (Jul 18, 2008)

Thanks for your replies. The only other choices I have from the three quotes I have solicited are IKO and BP harmony (all three companies quoted IKO, and two GAF). Maybe I'll try to get a few more quotes from someone who works with certainteed shingles. However, the companies I have chosen so far come with good word-of-mouth recommendation for workmanship, so I will have to dig to see if I can get a good product and good workmanship.


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

*You have not mentioned which area you are from yet.*

That does make a difference as far as to the material recommendations.

Some contractors, even those with referrals, use the cheapest product in comparison to a better quality product, just to remain competitive with the other bidders.

Ed


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

I feel sorry for you now. Iko and gaf bids only. Thats not happening on my roof. I have never heard of bp harmony. Unless your in Canada or somewhere. Open up the yellow pages find a roofing supply house and ask if they carry certainteed landmark 30 ar or Tamko heritage 30 ar. If they do then tell a roofer thats what you want and so and so supply house has them. I mean i just had my sisters house roofed and that is exactly what i did. I wanted landmarks don't try pushing anything else on me. Let me tell you something GAF are big in the County i live in. Its the number one prefered shingle by all roofing contractors in this County. Biggest supply house in County every roofer uses doesn't carry them nor do they carry Tamko. But the roofer i went with uses a out of the County supplier Allied in Oak forest to be exact and it was no problem.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Its free after you and the crew members pass the tests.
> 
> The CT rep is coming to my shop next Friday to provide a 1:40 minute video and then proctor the tests for my guys.
> 
> ...



I would be all over that if i was a roofer. I'm mean that can't hurt for business. You can be like well are the other bids certified by certainteed. NOt to mention people could enter there zipcode and pull you up. I say the phone will ring.:thumbsup:


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

I`ve been installing for 30 years and GAF is a top quality product,and we sell it so our customers get the best product available,certainteed is on par with them ,but certainly not better,I do understand the plant by indiana way puts out a poor product,but that is not indicative of gaf products,look at all the lawsuits certainteed products have inspired for comparison


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Just to be accurate and fair regarding the certainteed lawsuit issue, I know of only 2 lines, or styles that have had long lasting problems.

Those are the Horizon and the Hallmark lines.

I have never even heard of a problem with the Landmarks, but there probably are some that could be found.

With GAF, their was a large Class Action against everyone of their lines/styles of shingles that covered materials produces over 10-15 years in time.

Ed


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

do you have a link to it ?,1st I`ve heard of it


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

Since the case has settled, the in formation was a bit harder to obtain, so I went to GAF's, (GAFMC), corporate documents regarding their admission and claims amounts set aside for disbursement.

I did not realize nor remember that this issue spanned such a long period of time and also that is has been settled so long ago.

Ed

*edit:*
*Adding the most recent court ruling and decision I could find, which was from January, 2008:*

http://www.basjlaw.com/n-legal-updates-jan08.html

Brooks v. GAF Materials Corp., 532 F.Supp.2d 779 (D.S.C. 2008).
Decided January 31, 2008.
_Practice Areas:_ Litigation
The plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in state court alleging damages as a result of the defendant’s defective roofing materials. They later filed an amended complaint asserting a class action. The amended complaint stated that the total class damages would not exceed $5 million and that the individual recovery of any single class member would not exceed $74,999. The defendant removed the case to federal court, but the plaintiffs moved to remand on the grounds that the federal court lacked subject matter jurisdiction because the amount in controversy requirements of $75,000 for the individual class members and $5 million for the entire class were not satisfied. The defendants argued that the court should independently review the amount in controversy because the plaintiffs were not limited to the recovery requested in their complaint, but the United States District Court for the District of South Carolina held that the plaintiffs could limit the damages alleged in their complaint to avoid removal. Thus, the court remanded the case back to state court with instructions that any damages awarded must not exceed those requested in the complaint.



*Now, with the other older information I found:*

*Note 1: Nonrecurring Charges*

The Company recorded pre-tax nonrecurring charges in the third quarter of 1998 aggregating $27.6 million, of which $20.0 million related to the settlement of a *national class action lawsuit involving asphalt shingles manufactured between January 1, 1973 and December 31, 1997. *

Under the terms of the September 1998 settlement, the Company will provide property owners whose GAF shingles were manufactured during this period and which suffer certain damages during the term of their original warranty period, and who file a qualifying claim, with an opportunity to receive certain limited benefits beyond those already provided in their existing warranty. The Company agreed to the settlement, payments against which will be made over a number of years, to avoid the expense required to defend such litigation.


*Another Site, but the GAF Link is Dead, probably because people ran out of time according to the decree:*

http://riverplacesub.org/Links.htm

*Information and Links *


*Defective Shingle Notice*
Some homes in the subdivision have had problems with roof leaks as a result of defective GAF shingles. GAF has settled a class action court case for defective shingles. They will typically provide new shingles free of charge, however you will have to pay for installation. Installations costs for some homeowners have cost approximately $10,000-$15,000. Call 1-800-458-1860 to file a claim with GAF. The lawsuit settlement details can be seen at www.gaf.com/settlement.



*From another site:*
http://www.taymadeservices.com/News%20For%20Homeowners.htm

*Roofing Shingle Lawsuits* 
If you had Bird or GAF brand shingles installed on your house in the late 1980's or early 1990's you may be entitled to collect from the manufacturer to pay for replacement. There is a problem with these shingles cracking and splitting with widespread complaints by homeowners. To find out if you are eligible for replacement go to www.birdshingleclaims.com or call 800-247-3047. For GAF information go to www.gaf.com/settlementor call 800-458-1860. Elk brand shingles is currently fighting an ongoing suit in court. Attorneys for the plaintiff are Gilman & Pastor - 781-231-7850. 



*One more site with information:*

http://www.gilmanpastor.com/Cases/case.asp?id=11

Gilman and Pastor, LLP served as lead counsel for a nationwide class of persons who owned properties with defective roofing shingles manufactured by GAF. We obtained a settlement of the product liability action with benefits estimated at $75 million.


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

YOU AND i BOTH REALISE THE SPLITTING AND CRACKING WENT STRAIGHT ACROSS SEVERAL BRANDS OF SHINGLES,the main reason was lack of proper amounts of insulation,and no ventilation,which causedb extreme expansion/contraction of the surfaces on which the shingles were applied


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

The splitting and cracking were primarily the cheaper light weight 3-tab shingles that they discovered from their studies in the early and mid 90's.

All brands that sell enough product will have dissatisfied customers and lawyers that want to leach onto the case due to the significant total sums when all parties are joined in a class action suit.

The HallMarks just sucked and the Horizons, in my personal opinion, had too much asphalt on the appliqué overlay, but I have a Horizon job from 1991 that still looks brand new, due to being properly ventilated. That 17 years old on a 12/12 cape cod.

Ed


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

I have horizons on for 20 years also,the lawsuit was due to the reasons I just said ,and basically limited to the 20 yr 3-tabs as well,which were a stupid idea from any of the mfgr`s---bottom line certainteed may be on par with GAF,but is certainly not better-That is the point here,I`VE SEEN YOU GROUP THE SHINGLES YOU USE AS gaf,tamko,AND certainteed,and noting they were all considered equals by you ,in your words ED,Again the point is GAF puts out a good product,even better since it took over ELK,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

IKO,BPCO,AND ATLAS bashing I understand,and agree with lol


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## Ed the Roofer (Jan 27, 2007)

I only group GAF with the upper echelon shingles due to many other roofing contractors opinions that I trust.

Personally, I just have not had the desire to add them to my offerings, since the LandMarks and Heritage Shingles provide sufficient color choices and reliability.

It is not that I personally disapprove of GAF, but more so that I do not want to overwhelm the Home Owners with additional decisions, plus I have not had problems with those brands I offer, so I will stick with them. 
*
I did not list the old lawsuit information to bash the GAF product line,* but only because you requested the information, because you said you had not ever previously heard anything about that lawsuit, or, in your own words; 
_*TRG, "do you have a link to it ?,1st I`ve heard of it"

*_Actually, upon doing my research to look up the information, there are many more available references against Certainteed Shingles that I found about GAF, but that is probably because the complains have been ordered to Cease and Desist since the settlement. 

Previously, whenever I looked up problems about shingles, there were many more to be found, that now are missing, about the GAF lines.

Ed


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## roofman (Jul 27, 2008)

*Owens Corning or Timberline*

Hey! I'm getting ready to put on a new roof too. Which do you think is better Owens Corning Duration or Timberline 30 yr? One roofer told me Owens. What's your opinion?


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## the roofing god (Aug 2, 2007)

TIMBERLINE PRESTIQUE HIGH DEFINITION 30 YEAR,definitely not OC,DON`T PERSONALLY CARE FOR THEM


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## OldNBroken (Jun 11, 2008)

Ask 10 roofers and 9 will tell you GAF/Elk over OC. I'm one of those nine and that tenth guy should stick with landscaping.


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