# Dishwasher damaging paint and drywall



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

These things run hotter than ever. If you don't see any steam coming out, I would pull it out and see if there is any water on the ground. Are you running it on the drying cycle?


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

Your description of “paint bubbling up basically all along the bottom edge of the adjoining wall” isn’t what we can see in the photos. The first photo shows two equally damaged vertical corner beads. If that damage was just on the right side corner I’d also suspect the dishwasher, but since both the left and right side corners look similar I suspect that the cause is something else. I would do some exploratory surgery and see if the metal drywall corner beads are rusty, causing the paint to blister up. If so, then the question is what is the source of the moisture. Was there ever a leak in this area such that the corner beads have been rusting from the bottom up?

Chris


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

It's the steam, for sure. Have you never seen steam coming out of it at the end of a cycle?

Try some moisture detection tape?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The paint does display bubbles along other lower wall surfaces not shown in the photo. This is my girlfriend's place and I installed this dishwasher maybe 5 years ago. I agree it has to be the steam, but have never really seen any. But then I have never seen a dishwasher installed directly adjacent to drywall like this one. Most are within a row of cabinets like mine.

It's always something, it seems. Every day I wake up and curse entropy. Damn it.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

I haven't ever seen steam come out of any I have had unless the door gasket failed. How about sliding a piece of cardboard between it and the wall and run a cycle just for grins. See if there is any evidence of moisture.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

That's a good idea. Maybe also slide a piece underneath.


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

The plumbing for the dishwasher inside that wall? Maybe you have a problem there.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No, IIRC it is just an external copper line coming over from the hot line to the sink that is just to the right and the typical flex drain tube going to the disposal. And there is no water anywhere on the floor.

She says there is not enough space to get cardboard between the unit and the wall. I'll have a look at that next time I am there.


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

I could see steam causing damage next to the dishwasher. But around the corner? 

Is the roof sound? There is likely a plumbing vent close by. Check the flashing around that. That sure looks like water damage from inside the wall.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No roof issues. Lower floor condo and besides, the wall extends only up to the pass through counter above. If it is water it has to be coming from the supply line or the drain hose.


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

Does the damage extend up to the pass-through? Is there a "window stool" there that steam venting from the diswasher might be condensing on, then running back between the window stool and drywall, getting to the metal corner beads?

Chris


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No, the damage seems to be confined to the lower part. I don't know what a window stool is??


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## Chris616 (Dec 31, 2019)

Something like this that has an overhang on which rising steam can condense.

Chris


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

In that case, yes. It is a quartz countertop passthrough but otherwise looks a lot like that in your picture. The dishwasher would be on the far right side in your picture on the kitchen side and it is under a counter top made of the same quartz material. And her kitchen ends with space to walk around. IOW the wall does not extend all the way to the outer wall.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I know I am gonna have to pull this thing out and have a look. Just venting here and trying to get some ideas. You guys have been pretty helpful.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

You typically will only _see_ water vapor if "atmospheric conditions" are right. In the fall and winter you see your breath outdoors because the humidity is lower and the temperature differential is higher. In the summer you don't see your breath, do you?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Mystery solved... well, partially. Door gasket looked fine so I pulled off the kick plate and it was totally dry underneath. But I wanted to see it running. Well, found a good leak. At first I thought and hoped it was just the drain hose but, no. It looks like it is dripping from the tub or pump or some other hard part of the machine. See video. Anyone have any ideas as to what might be leaking and if it might be repairable? I'll be pulling it out tomorrow to have a better look.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

raylo32 said:


> Mystery solved... well, partially. Door gasket looked fine so I pulled off the kick plate and it was totally dry underneath. But I wanted to see it running. Well, found a good leak. At first I thought and hoped it was just the drain hose but, no. It looks like it is dripping from the tub or pump or some other hard part of the machine. See video. Anyone have any ideas as to what might be leaking and if it might be repairable? I'll be pulling it out tomorrow to have a better look.


Search Youtube "whirlpool gold dishwasher leaking". Looks like there are a few fixes.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks, Mike. Looks like the infamous diverter grommet. Also looks like a fairly simple repair. Now to find the part...


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Do you figure that the moisture from the evaporating leak is just traveling up the wall?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes. The damage is confined to the lower wall along the baseboards. It doesn't look too bad. I'll probably just strip the old tape, sand it and mud it and sand it to make it even, then tape and paint it. Luckily this is a ground floor condo with a concrete slab floor so no floor or ceiling damage. The leak wasn't bad enough to run out under the kick panel onto the tile else we would have got onto it sooner.



huesmann said:


> Do you figure that the moisture from the evaporating leak is just traveling up the wall?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Oh, and as for the repair... I have a new seal coming tomorrow and while most who have done this pull the dishwasher out, flip it over and remove the diverter I found one video that showed it can easily be done from the top without pulling the unit. Sure enough it took me less than 5 minutes to disassemble the interior by releasing a few clips then unscrewing the cover to the diverter shaft. I'll need to bring a pick tool to extract the old seal but that looks to be easy. Then insert the new one using a socket matched to the OD to drive it home. I am going to apply a little sil-glyde to make that easier and to improve the seal.


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## In Ontario (Oct 5, 2018)

I had a Maytag that did the same thing it seems. Slow leak. I didn't notice it until it soaked through the floor, sub floor, then a soffit in the finished basement below! It was getting old so I just replaced it. 

Now keep one of these under the dishwasher:

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/honeywell-single-use-water-leak-alarm-4-pack-/1000833906

I then found that there is such a thing as a dishwasher pan, similar to the idea on a hot water heater. This should be especially good to use with the leak sensor since any small leak will more quickly accumulate and set off the alarm.

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/everbilt-24-5-in-x-20-5-in-black-dishwasher-pan/1001421052

Has anyone used such a pan?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Pan looks like a pretty good idea. From the photo it looks like it is open in front so any water that leaks should present itself there hopefully before it can do much or hopefully any damage. I may try one of these at my place since DW sits on a wood subfloor over a finished space below. So far my 24 year old GE hasn't leaked... I think.

Edit: I just checked Home despot and they have this in stock at my store. I am going to pick one up today.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Finished this up today. Uggh. Lots of mold inside the DW recess. Scraped off what we could, dried it some with a fan and sprayed it with Zinser Mold primer. I would have liked to dry it more thoroughly but there was no way this kitchen could be left disassembled for any longer than a few hours. Had to trim the corner off the new leak pan due to interference from a corner brace but I reconstituted the lip with some Gorilla Tape. Also replaced the failed diverter shaft seal. See pics below. Old one looked terrible but to be fair that was after going after it with a pick to extract it. This was done without any major snags so all in all it was a good a good day.


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## In Ontario (Oct 5, 2018)

Good to have the "after" picture. Good job with the tape, I first thought you took a heat gun to it. I have a similar obstruction, I wonder if heat gun would work?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have a heat gun but didn't have it with me... but that might work. The thing I would have done if I had another day would have been to design a corner to fit the area I cut out and print it on my 3D printer then glue it in. But the tape made a really solid waterproof edge and rim.


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

They let you wire dishwashers like that in the US?


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## In Ontario (Oct 5, 2018)

joe-nwt said:


> They let you wire dishwashers like that in the US?


It's a little short but I looked into this in Ontario and I understood such a direct wire connection is also allowed.


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## Druidia (Oct 9, 2011)

In Ontario said:


> I had a Maytag that did the same thing it seems. Slow leak. I didn't notice it until it soaked through the floor, sub floor, then a soffit in the finished basement below! It was getting old so I just replaced it.
> 
> Now keep one of these under the dishwasher:
> 
> ...


I have water leak alarms under the sink (including the rope type alarm), under the DW, and on the floor at the corners of the kitchen counter. 

Under the sink, I placed paper towels under the detectors so water doesn’t just run off somewhere. Water gets absorbed by the paper towels and make better contact with the detector.


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## In Ontario (Oct 5, 2018)

Druidia said:


> I have water leak alarms under the sink (including the rope type alarm), under the DW, and on the floor at the corners of the kitchen counter.
> 
> Under the sink, I placed paper towels under the detectors so water doesn’t just run off somewhere. Water gets absorbed by the paper towels and make better contact with the detector.


Good Idea with the paper towels. What is a rope type alarm?


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, that's how all of them that I have worked on are wired. Direct wire on a dedicated circuit. This particular one was cut too short so I couldn't do a proper job of connecting the wires and securing the Romex in the strain relief. All I could do was work this with the DW pushed back in place to get one hand under there and pass the wires through into the DW's electric box and then do up the wire nuts and ground screw with some difficulty.



In Ontario said:


> It's a little short but I looked into this in Ontario and I understood such a direct wire connection is also allowed.


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## joe-nwt (Jul 15, 2020)

raylo32 said:


> Yes, that's how all of them that I have worked on are wired. Direct wire on a dedicated circuit. This particular one was cut too short so I couldn't do a proper job of connecting the wires and securing the Romex in the strain relief. All I could do was work this with the DW pushed back in place to get one hand under there and pass the wires through into the DW's electric box and then do up the wire nuts and ground screw with some difficulty.


If you ever revisit this dishwasher, you could install a box where that hole is in the wall and wire a longer whip to it so you can properly secure the wire to the appliance.

Will cut down on the amount of cursing required to hook it up.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Exactly. That's how these things should be installed in the first place but the builders like to cut corners. When I put a similar pan under my DW at my house a few days ago I discovered that the Romex came out of the floor... but there was enough slack to feed it to the side and come up between the pan and the cabinet wall. It pushes the pan up a tad on that side but won't affect its function. If I ever revisit that DW I could also put a box in the back wall. 



joe-nwt said:


> If you ever revisit this dishwasher, you could install a box where that hole is in the wall and wire a longer whip to it so you can properly secure the wire to the appliance.
> 
> Will cut down on the amount of cursing required to hook it up.


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## Druidia (Oct 9, 2011)

In Ontario said:


> Good Idea with the paper towels. What is a rope type alarm?


The whole length of the cord sets off the alarm when any part of the cord gets wet. 

Most water leak detectors only have the water contact point at the end of the cord (if there’s a cord) or the housing/case.


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