# Motor Oil differences



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Look at their base stocks. That will be the big difference. All the major synthetics are good. Castrol Syntec is not synthetic, but Mobil 1 has always been good.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

There are Internet pages and pages devoted to brands and types of oil and I'm not it is ever settled. Most automotive-related forum debates seem to go on endlessly. Everyone seems to have their favourite and the reasons to support their decision. Bottom line is to ensure your are comparing apples to apples.


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## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

Plenty of fun YouTube videos to burn up your afternoon

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

For the last 20+ years I have used the store brands.

Regular oil, non synthetic.

No problems.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Just buy the least expensive oil available and add STP.:vs_laugh:
CAUTION: Don't add it to a LA Case tractor engine. They had a oil clutch that runs the same oil as the engine and that 3 plow tractor won't pull 1 plow with STP in it.


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## shirbon (Oct 2, 2014)

Yeah, seems to be varying opinions here to without going to YouTube or the rest of the internet. What if there all made at the same factory like some appliances and or paper products and just have a different label attached to the end product - there’s some for food for thought. Guess I’ll just have to go with my gut feeling. Thanks for all the input everyone.


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## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

Amazon has a synthetic. It tests well and has good reviews. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## shirbon (Oct 2, 2014)

Windows on wash, what do you mean by “base stocks” ?


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Unless you're driving NASCAR, your engine will never notice the tiny difference between oil brands, synthetic or organic.

Just use whatever meets the specs from your manufacturer, change it at or before the recommended interval and your engine will last for ever.

Coming up on 195,000 on my 20 year old Mitsubishi, still purrs like Day One.
,
,


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Oil thread, huh?
I have magic answer to any oil question.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ZZZZZ said:


> Unless you're driving NASCAR, your engine will never notice the tiny difference between oil brands, synthetic or organic.
> 
> Just use whatever meets the specs from your manufacturer, change it at or before the recommended interval and your engine will last for ever.
> 
> ...


A bit heavy on the anecdotal. I’ve had cars with 300K and American made and from a generation of questionable quality. 

The synthetics usually babe better additive packages and lesser TFout. Makes for a cleaner motor and more efficient. 

Over the life of the car, evidence suggests you make back any differential expense in synthetic over conventional.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Windows on Wash said:


> A bit heavy on the anecdotal. I’ve had cars with 300K and American made and from a generation of questionable quality.
> 
> The synthetics usually babe better additive packages and lesser TFout. Makes for a cleaner motor and more efficient.
> 
> Over the life of the car, evidence suggests you make back any differential expense in synthetic over conventional.


Agree that synthetic is a superior product to organic, but my point was that meeting the mfg's specs is what you need to go by.

Personally I change the oil twice a year and not pay much attention to the miles driven, Takes half an hour and $20. Cheap insurance.
.
.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

I do an annual oil change on my car (15k+ miles/year) with mobil 1 0W40. UOAs come back with "go further!" every year.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If synthetic was better they wouldn't bother with regular oil.

People keep talking about race cars, well here's the nonsense in a nut shell.

Can you compare the two, and if so how.?

https://behlingracing.com/behling-r...l-technology-101/when-should-i-change-my-oil/

"" When Should I Change My Oil
Save Money on Oil
Ever think to yourself, when should I change my oil and how often? Well worry no more. Lower your operating cost by following the Joe Gibbs Driven oil change interval program. Joe Gibbs Racing doesn’t stop to change their oil before 500 laps, so why should you? When you start off with a 5W-20 in a 860 hp engine, it can’t shear and breakdown during the race. Joe Gibbs Driven Racing Oil is built to not lose viscosity during 500 mile races, so it provides the same protection even after 500 miles of racing. Here’s the proof!

By changing your oil filter every 100 laps, even dirt and methanol fueled cars can run more laps between oil changes. Here’s how you do it. Every 100 laps, change the oil filter after warming up the engine. Replace the oil lost during the filter change. Keep changing the oil filter and topping off the oil level every 100 laps until you’ve run 500 laps. After 500 laps, change the oil and filter, and then start over. Injected alcohol engines should convert 100 laps to 2 nights of racing.

Following this program can save you $40 per oil change! Not to mention that you are using a premium quality oil that provides race proven protection for over 500 miles!

Check out some of the other sections to learn more about which oil is right for you! Don’t know what oil to run? Don’t worry Behling Racing has go you covered! Check out the Oil application guide by Joe Gibbs Driven or Redline Oil. Have a question? Don’t hesitate to call or stop in and our knowledgeable staff will be happy to assist you with all your race car needs. ""


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

People don't need any more excuses to NOT service their cars. That's the reality of it. 

Newer cars run hotter than ever before (emissions necessity) and good oil is a must. Whether it is conventional or synthetic is not as important as changing it at recommended intervals. 

If you take long trips where the car can get up to good operating temps and burn off all the moisture that develops in the oil, great. Most people use their cars in short bursts which is a nightmare on oil. Those are the folks that will most benefit from regular oil change intervals. The guys/gals doing some long on road stuff and putting bunches of miles on a car while it is at full operating temperature aren't the ones that are testing the chemistry on the oil very much.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Here in the US almost all of the synthetic oils being sold are NOT made from synthetic stock it is highly modified conventional base . There are exceptions Amsoil comes to mind but there are others . To my knowledge the US is the only market that allows synthetic oil to be sold this way . Every where else in the world if it say's synthetic on the bottle it has to be made from synthetic stock .

A long time ago Mobil 1 was a true synthetic oil , but they lost a lawsuit to Castrol when Castrol was selling synthetic oil made from base stock . After losing that lawsuit Mobil 1 decided to change their formula and like almost all the synthetics out there is made from base grade oil and refined up to synthetic specs . My engine builder calls M1 " liquid death " :biggrin2:

There are quite a few engines/vehicles that can benefit from synthetic oils , as an example turbo charged engines . Also vehicles that tow large loads , think diesel pick up pulling 12,000 lbs. through the mountains . As a general rule synthetics run cleaner inside the engine . Regardless of what brand or type of oil you use doing regular oil sampling is the ONLY way to know how the oil is performing , much more reliable than internet forums :biggrin2:


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I think the Valvoline is a full synthetic now.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Windows on Wash said:


> I think the Valvoline is a full synthetic now.


Not according to the first bullet point in the link below .


https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/synthetic-oil-myths


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I don't know about the different oils of today but I do know one oil I wouldn't put even in my lawn mower and that is Quaker State. If you ever tore an engine down that Quaker State was used in, you would sure know why.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Porsche986S said:


> Not according to the first bullet point in the link below .
> 
> 
> https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/synthetic-oil-myths


I was thinking of the Penzoil ads I was hearing. Based on natural gas, but still a “Dino” based base oil I guess.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-platinum.html


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

So long as my UOAs come back with better than average wear numbers, they can make my oil out of clubbed baby seal fat. Bonus, it's all natural!


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

i always used the cheapest regular oil and cheapest oil filters for my civic 07 with 312k km since i had it in 2009. I don't even let it heat up when it is -20C and motor still runs like new. I only change oil when the cars tell me to do at every 10k km. No way i'm gonna pay more $$$ for synthetic.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Again...usage habits are important to examine when you are talking about the benefits of a synthetic oil. Using an anecdotal example of a Civic that has less than 200K of miles on it as the basis to use oil "X" or "Y" is meaningless without more data. That, and the fact that the I4 motor in most Civics run comfortable to 300K miles if just afforded basic maintenance. They are great motors.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Show me a 200k VW 1.8 turbo that has only had "cheap dino oil" put in it. I'd pay money for that show!


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

u3b3rg33k said:


> Show me a 200k VW 1.8 turbo that has only had "cheap dino oil" put in it. I'd pay money for that show!



It would be in a museum if it existed. 

The BG system flushes on those are great for the sludge build up if they are maintained. If they aren't, you literally just have to tear them down to clean them.


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## udraft (Nov 26, 2019)

Always use oil that's recommended by the manufacturer. Good quality synthetic for most cars. If you're really interested try bobistheoilguy.com


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

We are still waiting for the proof.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

What proof @*ron45* ?

In a normal, non turbo application, a good, conventional oil is just fine. 

Synthetics are actually indicated in many turbo applications because of the higher TFout numbers, better additive packages, and lubricity numbers at temperature. 

Synthetic oils are, simply, better in this case. Are they worth the additional invest in your vehicles application? Depends on the vehicle, your driving, and what you think the value is. 

I buy AMSoil in bulk so it winds up costing me $4-6 per quart. At that point, good conventional costs me about $3 per quart so the additional $1-3 per quart ($6 to $18 depending on the vehicle) is well worth it for the additional longevity, resistance to oxidation, sludge formation, base number, and cleanliness. 

On my turbo diesel, I am not supposed to run anything BUT synthetics. Is this because the manufacturer wants to sell more expensive oil or because they understand that the surface temperatures on some of the bearing inside the turbo are such that a conventional oil will not resist oxidation at these extremes?


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

Do you really want to know what the best oil for your car is? Listen closely and don't share this with anyone. 

The best oil is, and I am serious don't spread this around, the one that meets the minimum requirements your vehicle manufacturer requires.

AND

The one that you feel that meets those requirements best. 

Finally

You also follow the requirements set by the vehicle manufacturer for oil changes. (Change your filter at each oil change)

That is the best Oil to buy. 

If the manufacturer requires you to use 0-20w Synthetic with 7500 mile oil changes and suggests Castrol, Valvoline or similar oil. Why in the world would you put conventional oil in your car?

Of course you can always put what you feel is better oil in your car. And change your oil more frequently. But, don't put different weight oil in the car unless a different weight is suggested for extreme conditions. 

That's it. That's all you need to do. As long as the oil meets your vehicles requirements, and you follow the maintenance schedule, nothing else is needed. 

If you prefer to go with high-mileage, synthetic blend, conventional, that is fine. All else is conjecture and opinion. Although I do like @u3b3rg33k way of doing UOA checks. He has the right idea. Although clubbed baby seal fat may be a bit too thin.


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## udraft (Nov 26, 2019)

ktownskier said:


> .................snip...................the one that meets the minimum requirements your vehicle manufacturer requires..................snip................... Although clubbed baby seal fat may be a bit too thin.



It's an oil thread. No reasonable, factual arguments allowed!
Funny you mentioned oil filter change, my partners Gen.3 CR-V calls for a new filter every other oil change. People absolutely flip over this. The synthetic oil used in that car goes 6-8k miles between changes, that's 12-14k between filters.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

u3b3rg33k said:


> Show me a 200k VW 1.8 turbo that has only had "cheap dino oil" put in it. I'd pay money for that show!


I know of one personally, it is a 2002 VW Jetta 1.8 turbo with over 200,000 miles on it. It does still run. The weird part is this lady has never changed the oil since she bought this car 3 or 4 years ago. Not trying to be a smart butt or be a one up on ya.


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## kerryman71 (Feb 26, 2017)

I used conventional oil for years, Castrol, and would get an analysis done on it occasionally from Blackstone Labs telling me I could get more out of it. I was changing it at 5K. I switched to Mobil1 with a Mobil1 filter and change it once a year now. I put maybe 10K miles on my '02 Tundra each year. The analysis says I could get 12K, but I just do it once a year. Don't forget to use a quality air filter and change that too. A lot of people overlook the air filter.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

BigJim said:


> I know of one personally, it is a 2002 VW Jetta 1.8 turbo with over 200,000 miles on it. It does still run. The weird part is this lady has never changed the oil since she bought this car 3 or 4 years ago. Not trying to be a smart butt or be a one up on ya.


stranger things have happened. if she puts regular miles on it and the oil really hasn't been changed in 3-4 years there's either not much left or it looks scary in there.

FWIW i buy my M1 0W40 at walmart in 5qt jugs. about $5/qt. $50 in oil/year is less than the filter + UOA.


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## rgf (Apr 18, 2012)

I've been in the industrial oil business for over 20 years and have acquired quite a bit knowledge about various oils over the years. "Synthetic" oil is still made generally from crude oil that is broken down on the molecular level and reconfigured to eliminate the ragged ends of the carbon long change molecules which makes it more resistant to thermal or mechanical breakdown. Pennzoil does the same thing but uses natural gas as the base stock. When considering whether to use a conventional oil or a synthetic the main consideration should be the duty cycle of the vehicle. If you live in an extremely cold climate the Dino oils will get thicker than the syns and lead to increased wear at startup. If you tow a trailer or camper the syns would be better as they can tolerate higher operating temps. If you are an average car user dino oils are fine-in fact they are much better than they were just a few years ago due to better refining practices and better additive packages. All of the majors oils are good and meet most of the specs out there today. Remember if your trying to protect your 30K plus investment buy a good oil and don't throw a cheap filter in your cart. With oil filters you get what you pay for and the 9 buck filter is cheap insurance.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

u3b3rg33k said:


> stranger things have happened. if she puts regular miles on it and the oil really hasn't been changed in 3-4 years there's either not much left or it looks scary in there.
> 
> FWIW i buy my M1 0W40 at walmart in 5qt jugs. about $5/qt. $50 in oil/year is less than the filter + UOA.


I wouldn't touch that engine with a vaccinated crow bar, can you just imagine how it looks inside.

Back when I did mechanic work, I tore down several engines that Quaker State was used most of the engine's life. I literally had to chisel the gunk out of the valley, it looked just like coal and usually was at least 2 inches thick. That paraffin they use in the oil is murder on short run engines or colder climates.


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## LS-6 (Nov 26, 2019)

Like several have said here the best thing to do is change the oil on a regular basis. I change the oil on my 2003 S-10 every 3000. I bought it new and now have 160k on it and it runs great mostly city miles. I use conventional oil as recomended when new. I use farm and fleet brand oil because it's less expensive than name brands and it meets the same specs as name brand. Just bought some farm and fleet synthetic for $2.39/qt. and it meets dexos 2 specs vs mobile one dexos 2 for $7+ a quart for my '13 cruze. I use the cruze mostly for road trips due to the fantastic mileage. Change oil in the car every 5000.
Another good tip is don't beat the pizz out of your car. It just wears out the brakes, tires burns more gas and wears out the engine.
I have my chevelle for that...it gets about 5mpg the way I like to drive it. lol


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## Holzy1962 (Feb 7, 2019)

As long as it has the correct spec and viscosity it should be fine, as long as you don’t drive to extremes. My Chevy requires the Dexos symbol, which it requires according to the manual. Quaker State has it on its synthetic. It’s never given me an issue, and it can be less expensive if you find a good sale. I commute to work and pull a small trailer occasionally. Good oil as far as I’m concerned.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

LS-6 said:


> Like several have said here the best thing to do is change the oil on a regular basis. I change the oil on my 2003 S-10 every 3000. I bought it new and now have 160k on it and it runs great mostly city miles. I use conventional oil as recomended when new. I use farm and fleet brand oil because it's less expensive than name brands and it meets the same specs as name brand. Just bought some farm and fleet synthetic for $2.39/qt. and it meets dexos 2 specs vs mobile one dexos 2 for $7+ a quart for my '13 cruze. I use the cruze mostly for road trips due to the fantastic mileage. Change oil in the car every 5000.
> Another good tip is don't beat the pizz out of your car. It just wears out the brakes, tires burns more gas and wears out the engine.
> I have my chevelle for that...it gets about 5mpg the way I like to drive it. lol



Just took a look at your album. Nice iron!:thumbup:


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

udraft said:


> It's an oil thread. No reasonable, factual arguments allowed!
> Funny you mentioned oil filter change, my partners Gen.3 CR-V calls for a new filter every other oil change. People absolutely flip over this. The synthetic oil used in that car goes 6-8k miles between changes, that's 12-14k between filters.


My humblest apologies!!! :surprise:

What was I thinking when I wrote that post?:vs_OMG:

It is like bringing up PTC (shark-bite) or SS crimp rings in a plumbing thread. Or not twisting the wires first before putting on a wire nut. Or even bringing up wire nuts in an electrical thread.:devil3:

In my wife's Jeep 2018 Jeep Cherokee, which had 8 miles on it when we first test drove it, a little over 2 years ago, and now has close to 40K miles. We take it to the dealership for it's oil changes. And use their oil and filters. 

Yes, I know. What am I thinking again. :vs_cool: But, we bought a lifetime extended warranty on it. We plant to keep it for a long, long time. 

Up here, short trips are considered 30 miles one way. most are closer to 45-60 miles and primarily at highway speeds. So, the engines are brought up to temp every time. So, we go close to 8K between oil changes. We use the oil life indicator so we stay in warranty. 

On our Ford F-150 5.0 liter engine, I either do it or take it to wal-mart. They do it for less than I can buy the parts for. Go figure. But, I insist on fortified clubbed baby seal fat. And their pelts for the oil filter.


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## udraft (Nov 26, 2019)

ktownskier said:


> ........................SNIP..........................We use the oil life indicator so we stay in warranty........................SNIP...........................


I'm an old fart, so it took me a while to adjust, but that's exactly what I do, use the maintenance minder for almost everything. Always fascinating to see all the automotive engineers in these forums who know better!


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

udraft said:


> I'm an old fart,


Fixed your post for you.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

If the oil’s certifications meet or exceed the vehicle manufacturer’s requirements, it is good enough. The manufacturer spends millions developing and testing engines and they have no incentive to have them wear out prematurely.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

What is "prematurely"? Are we seriously trying to say that manufacturers make a motor to last forever? 



We know how to build an engine that will last forever. Pre-lubrication and having the oil at an operating temperature will eliminate a majority of the wear in a balanced and properly assembled engine. 

Manufacturers aren't doing that because they know most part of the car and the owner's fascination with the car wear out long before that. 



If you want to see what oils work best, see what long haul truckers use. They have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in rigs and fuel and they mostly run synthetics and dual bypass filtration set ups.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

The petroleum engineers have an organization called the American Petroleum Institute. They are the single most credible source for recommendations for oil. API ratings- I think the latest is SM. I buy API SM grade, synth. Cheapest brand. No hype. SM dino is good too, just change it more often. 

A lot of this type discussion parallels that of gas- which brand is better. It all comes from the same pipeline from Houston area , across the south, tees off near N FL to go to mid Atlantic states. All the brands drink from the same pipeline.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I don’t recall writing anything about an engine lasting forever. By “prematurely” I meant at a time previous to what an intelligent and reasonable person would consider to be the expected life of the vehicle.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Old Thomas said:


> I don’t recall writing anything about an engine lasting forever. By “prematurely” I meant at a time previous to what an intelligent and reasonable person would consider to be the expected life of the vehicle.


well by that metric, BMW has killed their nav updates after 7 years, so 100k miles is a vehicle "lifetime". funny, their transmissions/differentials no longer have drain plugs are are filled with "lifetime"fluids.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Can we make the distinction between and engine that runs and runs well. I can take two motors that look the exact same and run entirely different depending on the care and internal maintenance of the motor. We have seen measure compression improvements with certain additives that are designed to free up the ring lands so that they can move freely. 

Synthetic oils, with higher volatilization temps, are better better at resisting this oxidative formation at the ringlands.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

papereater said:


> The petroleum engineers have an organization called the American Petroleum Institute. They are the single most credible source for recommendations for oil. API ratings- I think the latest is SM. I buy API SM grade, synth. Cheapest brand. No hype. SM dino is good too, just change it more often.
> 
> A lot of this type discussion parallels that of gas- which brand is better. It all comes from the same pipeline from Houston area , across the south, tees off near N FL to go to mid Atlantic states. All the brands drink from the same pipeline.


They all come from the same pipeline, but the gas companies add their own secret sauce. Techron, etc.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

They all make claims, but where's the proof.?

Once and for all show the proof so this can be laid to rest.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

What proof are you looking for? That Synthetic motor oil is better? And in what capacity? 

There is more than enough proof that synthetic oil (good brands) are better and certainly in turbo applications. 

I am confused at to what is your request.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

ron45 said:


> They all make claims, but where's the proof.?
> 
> Once and for all show the proof *so this can be laid to rest*.



If it were to be so then it would be a first in the history of 'what's the best oil' discussions.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

ron45 said:


> They all make claims, but where's the proof.?
> 
> Once and for all show the proof so this can be laid to rest.


 @ron45, Can you define for me what the proof you are looking for is?

Ron, in your second post in this thread, you stated:

"If synthetic was better they wouldn't bother with regular oil." I snipped off the rest of the post as it referenced oil changes in a 500 lap. 

I believe this was in response to @Windows on Wash comment about synthetics. 

I believe you answered that in your first post:

"For the last 20+ years I have used the store brands.

Regular oil, non synthetic.

No problems."

The reason they offer synthetics, hybrids, conventional, etc.. Is due to different vehicles requiring different lubrication needs. 

Why you may have put conventional oil in a race car back in the 60's. Engines are built to so much greater tolerances today that synthetic oil will only work. 

Also, conventional oil is still around for people like yourself. 

THERE IS NO ONE BEST OIL. Other than (and here I go again) the one recommended by your vehicles manufacturer. They know the tolerances, demands, etc of your engine and the best lubrication for it. 

Of course, there are shade tree mechanics who know much better and they offer their wisdom on the subject. 

And then there are the real world results. Someone (@BigJim?) said that Quaker State left so much sludge you had to chisel it off. When I was growing up, it was Pennzoil that got the bad rap. 

The vast majority of synthetic motor oils are made from highly refined, chemicialy or physically altered, hydrocarbons. (petroleum, natural gas, etc..) If you want to see what the oil you are using is made from, take a look at the MSDS/SDS.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

ktownskier said:


> [MENTION=223156]
> THERE IS NO ONE BEST OIL. Other than (and here I go again) the one recommended by your vehicles manufacturer. They know the tolerances, demands, etc of your engine and the best lubrication for it.


I agree in theory, but I only buy one motor oil. M1 0W-40. goes in everything. motorcycle, car, tractor, lawnmower, generator, track toy.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

How about,

2 same race cars
2 same over the road cars
2 same everyday cars.

Without any oil changes.

Driven the exact same way/place for a period of years and then.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Just buy the least expensive oil available and add STP.:vs_laugh:
> CAUTION: Don't add it to a LA Case tractor engine. They had a oil clutch that runs the same oil as the engine and that 3 plow tractor won't pull 1 plow with STP in it.


I can still remember the first one I tore down that had STP Took a putty knife to clean it out of the pan..


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Had a 1980 Ford box truck, 300 six. Used cheap oil in it all its life. Backfired and caught on fire at 349,000.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

rusty baker said:


> Had a 1980 Ford box truck, 300 six. Used cheap oil in it all its life. Backfired and caught on fire at 349,000.


You didn't use any of that slick 50 did ya.?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

What is the question Ron?


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

This thread reminds me of when when my daughters were little. The eternal Fairies v. Mermaids debate. The discussion always became quite heated.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

This has been posted before, but it is the most significantly complete and comprehensive data collection on oils and testing data. 



https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Windows on Wash said:


> This has been posted before, but it is the most significantly complete and comprehensive data collection on oils and testing data.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


You're kidding right.?

Who is it sponsored by.

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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

https://oil-additives.evonik.com/product/oil-additives/downloads/ppd-treatise-en.pdf


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

When you start checking into how they come up with.

For instance conventional V.I. (80-119.

You find stuff like this ( https://www.synforce.com.au/base_oils.html )

Be sure to look at the chart here.

"" Base Oils
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Group I - Solvent Refined Mineral Base Oil:

Group 1 base oils are the least refined of all the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils on the market continue to use Group I stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Modern mineral base oils are the result of a long and complex distillation and refining processes. The feedstock used is crude oil. This substance is not of uniform quality but consists of several thousands of hydrocarbon compounds in which the elements carbon and hydrogen are present in all molecules and, in part, are bound to other elements.

The hydrocarbons can be divided into three main groups: paraffinic, naphthenic and aromatic. 

Paraffinic hydrocarbons can be further divided into two subgroups: normal paraffinic and isoparaffinic. Paraffinic hydrocarbons are the best lubricants. The distillation process in the refinery separates the hydrocarbons contained in the crude into cuts based on the molecule size.

Furthermore, as many unwanted substances as possible are removed in the process, such as sulphur, aromatic hydrocarbons, paraffin wax, etc. In other words the mineral oil production process is physical cleaning and the end product is so-called paraffinic base oil.

Most of the hydrocarbons in the base oil are paraffinic, but it also contains naphthenic and aromatic molecules. When the finished lubricant, such as motor oil, is made of these, several additive compounds are used to improve the base oil properties.

The final outcome can also be so-called naphthenic base oil, where most of the hydrocarbons are naphthenic. 

Group II - Hydrocracked Base Oils

Base oils made by hydrocracking and isomerization technologies had such a signifigant increase in desirable performance over solvent refining technology that in 1993 the API categorized base oils by composition. Solvent refined oils are now referred to as group I base oils.

Group II base oils are a vast improvement over group I because they contain lower levels of impurities and because they are so pure, they have almost no color at all.

Improved purity means the base oil and additives can last longer under use. The oil is more inert and forms less oxidation byproducts that can increase viscosity and react with additives.

Group II Base Oils over Group I Base Oils offer;

* Better Thermal stability * Better Oxidation stability * Longer service life

* Increased component protection * Better resistance to the formation of Laquers and Sludge

Group III - The start of Synthetic Base Oils

The API defines the difference between Group II and III base oils only in terms of V.I., viscosity index. Base oils with conventional V.I. (80-119) are Group II and base oils with an "unconventional" V.I. (120+) are Group III. Group III base oils are also called unconventional base oils (UCBO's) or very high V.I. (VHVI) base oils. Group II+ base oils have the same maximum V.I. as Group II (80-119), but have a higher minimum V.I. (110-119).

From a process standpoint, Group III oils are made by the same process as Group II oils, but the V.I. is increased by increasing the temperature of the hydrocracker. The product V.I. can also be increased by increasing the V.I. of the feedstock. Which is done by selecting the appropriate crude.

Group IV - PAO Base Oils

"The word "synthetic" in the lube industry hase traditionaly been synonymous with PAO, poly-alpha-olefins, which are made from small molecules. The first commercial process for making PAO was pioneered by Gulf Oil in 1951.

Since then, the demand for PAO has grown and some base oil manufactures began using higher V.I. feedstocks to make mineral oils with V.I.'s that matched the PAO's. These new Group III oils were not manufactured from small molecules like traditional synthetics but they bridged the performance gap at a lower cost. Some lubricant manufactures began replacing PAO's with Group III base oils in their "synthetic" engine oils. This created a controversy in the lubricants industry because some believed that PAO's were the only true synthetics.

The National Advertising Department of the Better Business Bureau ruled that Group III base oils can be considered "synthetic" because modern oils made using hydroisomerization technology have most of the same performance features of the early synthetics.

Group V - are used primarily in the creation of oil additives.

Esters and polyolesters are both common Group V base oils used in the formulation of oil additives.

Group V oils are generally not used as base oils themselves, but add beneficial properties to other base oils. 

Note that the additives referred to in the Group V description are not aftermarket type oil additives. The additives referred to are used in the chemical engineering and blending of motor oils and other lubricating oils by the specific oil company that produces the finished product. ""


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ron45 said:


> You're kidding right.?
> 
> Who is it sponsored by.


Most of the good information is in the forums. 

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forum_summary

That said, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I use synthetic oil from completely synthetic base stocks (AMSoil - Group 4 base oil) because I buy it for close to what good conventional oil would cost me (about a 25% premium) 

At a small premium, the benefits of:


Resistance to volatility (NOACK and higher TFOUT numbers)
Viscosity consistency
Cold flow performance
Better additive package and TBN
Increased cleanliness do to the detergentcy and viscosity consistency (having taken apart more than my fair share of motors)
Given that a good chunk of wear happens at cold flow start up, I will take the oil with massively better performance. 

https://youtu.be/tYkg0oDUXs8?t=215



If I lived in a milder climate, I wouldn't hesitate to run a conventional oil. But based on the colder temps and the mild offset in expense, its an easy decision for me. The almost 300K that I put on my last two cars before they were donated (in perfect motor and running condition), I will stick with my regime. One of the cars, BTW, was an American car from a notoriously bad era. Anecdotal...yes. But I will be running synthetics on mine from here on out.


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## rooster4321 (Feb 25, 2018)

The end here kitty kitty

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6560 using Tapatalk


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

The end.


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## wthdideyedo (Jan 1, 2020)

ktownskier said:


> Do you really want to know what the best oil for your car is? Listen closely and don't share this with anyone.
> 
> The best oil is, and I am serious don't spread this around, the one that meets the minimum requirements your vehicle manufacturer requires.
> 
> ...


Which 20 year old vehicle's owners manual even mentions the word 'synthetic'? That's what the OP asked. They say the weight, and the mileage to change it at. The OP is trying to understand it a little more, and you are trying to tell them to dumb it down. You do get that oil technology has made some improvements over the last twenty years right? 

By the way, those oil change reminders: They have zero to do with what oil you put in. If you use the cheapest dollar store brand oil, or you use amsoil, those counters will come up with the exact same thing. They are based off temperature and revs. 



Old Thomas said:


> If the oil’s certifications meet or exceed the vehicle manufacturer’s requirements, it is good enough. The manufacturer spends millions developing and testing engines and they have no incentive to have them wear out prematurely.


 Based on what? Based on "average driving", "average conditions", and we should still be going off 20, 30, 40 year old owners manuals to get our information? Different oils not only use different additives, but if you REALLY care about it; some people want to know where there money goes. Some people want to buy from American companies, or don't want to buy oil from certain countries, or companies because of actions they have taken. 
OP is trying to learn more, and you two are telling them "No, don't learn. Do what you were told to do two decades ago, because your car company knew everything back then that they would ever need to know, and nothing could have possibly improved since then. When they were building a car with a budget dictated for sales to the masses.. 
You two telling them no is like someone asking about putting in a home water filter, and you say "if your builder didn't put one in, then you don't need one". Or, If you didn't get energy efficient bulbs when your house was built 30 years ago, then you don't need them today.



ron45 said:


> They all make claims, but where's the proof.?
> 
> Once and for all show the proof so this can be laid to rest.


www.google.com 



u3b3rg33k said:


> I agree in theory, but I only buy one motor oil. M1 0W-40. goes in everything. motorcycle, car, tractor, lawnmower, generator, track toy.


Unless that just so happens to be the oil that is recommended for all of those, that is incredibly lazy, and you should know that (yet you weren't clear about whether or not that's the oil you SHOULD be using). Using the wrong weight is going to guarantee its not running at its full potential, and WILL cause problems earlier than they would have otherwise. 



ron45 said:


> How about,
> 
> 2 same race cars
> 2 same over the road cars
> ...


Its not about testing tires, shocks, windshield wipers, etc.. right? Its just about the oil right? They use just the engines and do it in a shop where they actually can do the exact same test (and do it better than if it were in a car), because you would have to stop for things like traffic, changing drivers, and refueling. The data is out there. If you actually WANTED to know, just search. 




ron45 said:


> The end.


 For you? Geeze I hope so. You are not willing to search or listen to anything anyone says that's different than you.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

wthdideyedo

"" Quote:
Originally Posted by ron45 View Post
How about,

2 same race cars
2 same over the road cars
2 same everyday cars.

Without any oil changes.

Driven the exact same way/place for a period of years and then.
Its not about testing tires, shocks, windshield wipers, etc.. right? Its just about the oil right? They use just the engines and do it in a shop where they actually can do the exact same test (and do it better than if it were in a car), because you would have to stop for things like traffic, changing drivers, and refueling. The data is out there. If you actually WANTED to know, just search.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ron45 View Post
The end.
For you? Geeze I hope so. You are not willing to search or listen to anything anyone says that's different than you. ""

That's where your wrong.
I've researched this #### out the gazoo.

And..
You can't get the same results from a controlled atmosphere.

For instance. How are those weather models working out.

This comes under what car is the best Chevy or Ford.
In the meantime Dodge, Volkswagen, etc., all pass the finish line.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Anecdotal.


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