# Shower pan liner help



## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Try to attach some pictures.


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*pictures*

Thanks!


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

ask to see liner install specs and instructions from manufacturer or go online and check that brand


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*liner specs*

I read the install instructions. They are short but do say to not puncture the liner below the top inch or two so. And they say to not cut the corners. These are two basic instructions that all liners seem to have in common. But I am sure there are showers that require a cut liner that is then attached somehow. Just can't find any info about it. My GC says this is the only way to line our shower. The wall on the left will be glass blocks and has a very slight curve. Then there is a corner bench on the right.


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## plumberinlaw (Feb 22, 2010)

Usually the Plumber sets the liner.


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

plumberinlaw said:


> Usually the Plumber sets the liner.


:thumbsup:


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*liner*

My GC was a licensed plumber for 20 years. Not sure that he is licensed today, but was for a long time.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*Installing a liner properly*

This is quite a common problem and one that comes up when you try and follow the plumbing codes by the book. In order for the water to drain away completely the Compression flange needs to recessed to allow the weep holes to function properly.

Candle wick should be used to ensure the weep holes don't plug as well. What you get when dancing this rubber membrane dance is these folds and creases...

This system is "Out Dated" and in order to make life easy most mount the flange so the liner does not bucke and they setle for a little standing water in the shower pan's design.

Better yet to work with a topical membrane from Latecrete, Schulter or Nobel Company. 

This exact problem is exactly why I looked into better systems and better drains.

Your liner looks poorly installed and I would replace it. Take a look at Nobel Companies Nobel Flex. This piece can be used to build a better pan liner with their Nobel TS.

If you wish I can post a step by step of these repairs as we will building a shower like yours on Monday...

Good Luck

John Whipple


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*shower pan liner help*

I would love any instructions/advice. Is NobleFlex a liner or a drain flashing?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Shower Construction Info (a collection of posts) - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile


Scary looking liner install------------------------Insist that they do a flood test--block drain and fill pan with water---will it hold for 12 hours?


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*Using Nobel Flex for shower pan liners*

http://www.noblecompany.com/Portals...ions/Noble Flex Product Decription lo res.pdf

Here is a link to their product data sheet.

Nobel has some great tech support. I get a lot of help from Eric back in the head office. Why not email their tech department directly.

Eric's email is [email protected]

There is a few great you tube videos as well.

Did you do a pre slope all ready? Do you have any pictures of that?


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*John Bridge Tile Forum Advice*

Flood testing your shower pan needs to be preformed for 24 hours minimum - not 12. 72 hours is ideal and a standard you should insist on.

There is some good advice on the John Bridge Tile Forum but most threads will lead you to a post that sounds like this "Down load an EBook" $10.00 - no need for this...




oh'mike said:


> Shower Construction Info (a collection of posts) - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile
> 
> 
> Scary looking liner install------------------------Insist that they do a flood test--block drain and fill pan with water---will it hold for 12 hours?


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*shower pan liner help*

There is a pre-slope under the liner. I thought it looked good but do not have a picture. They had to chip some around the drain (the weep holes are clear). Then clamped the liner down. I think that is why there are wrinkles - the liner is clamped a bit lower than the preslope edge.
I don't suppose you are in Austin,TX?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I've done a lot of hand packed bases ----I never cut and glue the liner--never hear of doing that,either,

The corners are always folded--no perforations below the water line----looks like a failure waiting to happen----I would be worried---


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*Building a shower in Austin Texas*

Sorry no - I'm in Vancouver BC. We do do remote installs but only when installing the channel drains I love so much.

There is a tile guy in Austin named Paul from Cabot and Rowe. He is one of the leading Kerdi experts in your town and would make short work of this repair for you.

Give him a call.

You should also talk to a local Laticrete rep and they can offer you another option. These are common problems and ones steamed from trying to do the best job possible.

Many plumbers lay this liner flat on plywood with no preslope. Many inspectors turn a blind eye. This is the business. This business needs changing...


whoops... Paul is here

Cabot & Rowe

1237 Oxford Street 
Houston , Texas 77008-7002 
Phone: 713-459-6215 
Fax: 713-880-4877 


JW


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*shower pan liner help*

Thanks very much for your help and advice. I will make some calls and get this fixed.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

A good plan----


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*Schulter Adapter Drain*

Here is video showing Schulter's Adapter Drain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KZwDaszWY

This drain can be added onto your standard ring as one option. You can install this drain and float out the floor with something like Laticrete's Thick Bed. Once installed you can either install Kerdi or as even a simpilar option use Hydro Ban over top.

Check with Laticrete before proceeding with this easier option as they might want to test their Hydro Ban to this new "Adapter Drain". Hydro Ban is all ready approved with use with a regular Kerdi Drain so I see no reason why it would not be the case with this new drain.


This adapter drain is designed to be used with Schulter's Water Proofing Membrane

JW


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## canadaclub (Oct 19, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> The corners are always folded--no perforations below the water line----looks like a failure waiting to happen----I would be worried---


Agreed...I also like to place the folds in between the corner studs if possible.


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Nobel's corner video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXQsPVYekBE


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## JohnFRWhipple (Jun 3, 2010)

*One Way Slope*

It is much easier to prepare a shower floor slope in one direction.

This makes so much easier.

Next time you build a shower you might consider a drain from Quick Drain USA or Nobel Company.

These two companies have drains that will tie right into this Nobel TS membrane I'm talking about.

Look them up. If you want to switch now I would be happy to help...

JW


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## mikkik (Dec 11, 2010)

*shower pan liner help*

I would like some more info. There is already a slope to the middle. Would this involve moving the drain? 

My contractor insists that this shower pan is fine. I don't know enough to really argue with him and am getting really frustrated. Is this a project to contract out or can I DIY? I am ready to board the room up and forget the master bath!


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## Michael Thomas (Jan 27, 2008)

Are patched corners and "waterproofed" fasteners that low on the liner "industry best practice"? 

No, according to the written installation instructions of most manufacturers, and according to your research they are incorrect according to the liner manufacturer. 

In a reasonable world, case closed. 

If you want the installer to do it right, and you are in an area where an AHJ requires inspections, make an appointment for the inspector to meet you and the installer, and ask the inspector to review the instructions with the installer - if the inspector is on the ball he or she will require the installer to correctly install the pan liner, _because per the IRC the manufacturer's installation instructions must be followed unless the AHJ has a specific written requirement to install it differently_. 

If you are in an area which does not require inspections, IMO at a *minimum* the pan should be water tested for a min of 24 hours before mortar bed is installed. 

BTW, does that liner maintain the required minimum 3 inches height above the threshold all the way around the interior? if not, that's wrong too.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Did you look at the link that I posted? That has all the standard methods--with pictures--

That patched up mess looks like a lawsuit---Don't let him finish that--it's a mess and a failure---

I hope that is plain enough.--Mike--


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

If a plumber did that for me I would point to the corner and say

"OK so if I have a leak in that spot will the liner manufacturer or the glue manufacturer be the one responsible?" Then I would say Rip it up and do it correctly. I have never had to cut a liner and I have even done showers that were completely round. Now if the plumber did it a second time he would be terminated. 

You are paying for quality work... Expect Quality work. If it does not look like a good job... it probably is not a good job


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## Plumber26 (Nov 10, 2010)

Demand it be redone. If the contractor refuses, fire him! Heck, the first one I ever did looked 1,111,111,111,111 times better than that.... AND it held test for 24 hours. If you have a test on that one, it may pass but, it WON't last. Staples will rust, adhesive will leak, it WILL fail.

The only thing adhesive is good for is overlapping, say like on a shower seat. You'll put the liner from the floor up the vertical part of seat. Then, overlap from the seat down and adhere that part. That way even if the adhesive fails, the water still can't get behind it b/c it's overlapped. That's a "class F-" job they did there.


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