# -20 degrees and a blizzard (Indiana). Here's my prep list.



## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Good luck!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Why not before the storm hits cut that pipe, add a tee and a ball valve.
How do you plan on flushing the toilets? Full the tub with water and get a 5 gal. bucket.
Tank on the toilet does not need to be filled, just dump water down the bowl.
If it's cold outside why not put anything you want to keep outside in a cooler, close the lid at night to keep critters out.
We use a propane two burner stove and a two globe lantern for lighting.
Hope you bought 12 gauge cords.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

I guess I was lucky on the preparation costs for the short spell. I just went out a bought a rolled rib roast that I could use as a roast or cut into steaks, a box of red wine (if there room in the fridge) and topped off the gas tanks for the SUVs and retired inside for a few days and no worries. I anticipate there may be neighborhood parties tonight and tomorrow and tomorrow night for the football games/ - Just hibernating for a day or so since they are talking about highs of -12F and wind chills of -35F. - At lot easier than when I lived 200 miles north and saw -52F on our certified plant site weather station.

All utilities (electric, natural gas, cable, internet and telephone are underground). All real voice/internet communications are also via cell phones. In about 50 winters in the MSP/MN area for a short cold snap (if and when it happens), it has never been a problem. You just live with the minor inconvenience. Unfortunately, I may have to work some tomorrow because things go on in the rest of the world.

We are now at 5.5F heading for -18F just after sun rise (the cold temperatures happen temporarily when the sun changes the vertical circulation and draws down the colder air). Those appraently low temperatures keep the weathermen employed until there are storms to pump up the viewer numbers.

Life would be boring without weather events.

Dick


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## JazMan (Feb 17, 2007)

I would not recommend using 100 ft. cords, they're too long and you'll loose amps. And I agree with Joe's hunch that you may not have 12 gauge cords, (by the price). You need heavy cords from the generator to appliances at least. 

I bought a bunch of cords of different lengths and routed them the way I want. I labelled each cord and they are in a box to be used only when the power goes out. I've had this generator for about 8 years and used it only once a few months ago for under 24 hours. 

I've made no provisions for heat as we have a gas insert and doubt it would get dangerously cold. I also think draining lines is not necessary.

Good luck to you.

Jaz


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## ratherbefishing (Jan 13, 2011)

Milk, bread and eggs? 
And a case (or two) of good beer?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

on that house drain down,add a T on your side of the house incoming and a nipple with a ball valve on the BULL ...just shut the main incoming... open the ball and vent the show... flush the bowls


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

My prep list, was go get a case of Washer Fluid, since we have three vehicles, and probably will go through just two bottles in the next three days.

I will love going out to clean off ours and the neighbor's drive in this cold, but will be no different than it was the last time it Snowed. Get done, come inside and have some hot coffee, and take a warm shower, I will be ready to relax after.

Otherwise, I have a 12 pack of Shiner Bock, we have food, and it is warm in my house.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

ratherbefishing said:


> Milk, bread and eggs?
> And a case (or two) of good beer?


I never did get the whole French Toast Fixings. People act like it is the end of the world, and those three will survive the Apocalypses.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Seems the further north you go the less worried folks seem to be. My preparation...nothing.. its just another day.


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I should probably bring my beer in from the garage so it doesn't freeze. Or just drink it tonight , it won't freeze in my belly.......


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

Well, I appreciate the comments and suggestions.

Thanks for the warning on the cords. I can upgrade tomorrow morning before the storm worsens. If I don't lose power I won't need to unwrap them, so it is pretty much the cheapest insurance I can buy.

For some reason our electrical reliability has been worsening these last few years. Never since the early 1960s had we had any outages at all. I imagine a major factor is the local grid, which was brand new.

My biggest worry is my toilets. They are custom, they wall-mount, and I am not sure if they can even be replaced. Retrofitting the house for base-mount toilets (4 of them) would be a nightmare.

As far as the cord length, it is simply necessary. I do have one bath right at the front door that could use a 25 foot cord, but the rest of the house is pretty much 100 feet away in all different directions.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

*Help please! Forecast is for -24 on Monday - How to protect Toilets?*

The weather is saying -15 to -25 below for at least a 36 hour period.

I have a home built in 1968 with American-Standard wall mounted toilets.

We have four of them. I am pretty sure they don't make residential toilets like these anymore, so I'm not even sure they can be replaced.

I also have two large waterheaters in the basement.

I have two questions.

1. Do you think that my waterheaters would be safe? They are in a 7' concrete basement, nestled under a stairway against an inside wall. The mass of the house is pretty much centered over that spot.

One of the waterheaters is an original 1968. I'm not sure I want to attempt to open the valve to drain it. The other was new 5 years ago. They are electric.

2. My toilets look similar to the 'commercial' toilet pictured here. I have purchased three gallons of RV antifreeze, but am unsure how to proceed. Could you instruct me in the proper method to use the antifreeze?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Plan on the temperature going below 32 deg. inside?
If not then there not going to freeze.
If so pick up some RV antifreeze and dump some in the bowl


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

You know the weather is bad when the weather man is talking loud & fast and smiling from ear to ear. :yes:

The news just did a segment about people getting ready for the storm. They showed the local grocery store (Meijer) and said that 27 of the 28 checkout lanes are open and the lines are long. People are having to wait in line to get a grocery cart to start their shopping. 

@ imautoparts, here's something you could add to your list - for future weather emergencies (since it's too late to order one and get it in time for this storm). It's called a water bob. You put it in your bathtub and fill it with water. It takes the shape of your tub and store water for flushing, washing and boiling to drink.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=plastic%20bathtub%20liner%20survival&sprefix=plastic+bathtub+lin%2Caps%2C277

.
.
.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm going to keep a close eye on the weather and make a last bonsai beer run in my beloved 1994 Dodge Caravan All Wheel Drive. It's like crossing a Subaru with a hippy love wagon.

Nothing like rolling alone down a barely-visible road with the brights on during heavy snow (try it, you'll like it). The whole world freezes, muffled under 5 inches of fresh powder. 

PS: Thanks for the tip about the Water Bob.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Moving water does not freeze. Just keep the taps dripping a tiny bit and they should be fine


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The water heater itself will not freeze if you leave the heater on. The pipes coming and going to it might if you don't have heat in the room.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

For your water heater, no matter what the outside temperatures are the soil and concrete in and under your basement is much warmer than the outside air temperatures because of the thermal mass storage. Here in MN our soils about 4' down are about 50-55F and there is a many week lag to cause an appreciable lowering.

For a home with outside wall with lightweight frame construction, the temperature variations will be very radical and faster.

Dick


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I have family over near Terre Haute and I worry about them in this weather. 

stay warm.

does your town have emergency shelters in case people need them?


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Your water heaters will be fine. They are full of hot water with a heating element. If you have plumbing inside your exterior walls, then leave your taps dripping as creeper suggests. If your toilets' supply lines are in exterior walls, then flush them all just before turning in and flush them all first thing in the morning. If you happen to wake in the night it won't hurt to flush them all again.

This assumes your heat is on.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I've seen temps that were -32 and nothing happened to anything on the inside of my home. Once or twice water froze up in the copper pipes inside a coal cellar, but, now when temps get that far below zero, I just do as Creeper suggested, let the taps run/drip ever so much and nothing will freeze unless you have incredibly poor insulation.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

creeper said:


> Seems the further north you go the less worried folks seem to be. My preparation...nothing.. its just another day.


That is how I look at it. Spent too many hours out in this weather, Deicing aircraft in -30 wind chill, coat soaked with the fluid.

Also spent many hours driving a semi truck in this weather. Many times you could not see the road ten feet ahead of you.

For us on Friday, it was just a normal shopping trip.

I can never get the whole having to freak out over a little weather for a couple of days. I would love to see some of these people get dropped in the middle of nowhere, up in Alaska.

If you have ever seen Railroad Alaska, they highlight the off griders. I doubt that a lot of people could even get through four hours of that lifestyle.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

It is also the first of the month. The snowstorm is not why they are busy. It is because you have those with food stamps, out getting groceries with their Social Security, and of course those who work and using their paychecks to do regular grocery shopping.

If it was not for the College dropouts most of these TV stations hire as reporters, we would not have mass hysteria.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Gregzoll, I agree with you. The weather is the weather…….it's winter and we get these types of storms. I survived the Blizzard of '78, '93, and the ICE STORM from hell in 1999 (2 straight weeks of solid ice on roads) so it's business as usual. And, with this current storm, even though it's going to be below zero for a few days, the long range forecast is calling for highs in the 40's by next weekend which means some potential flooding and the sub-zero stuff will be just a distant memory.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

What channel is Railroad Alaska on? I've never seen that show.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

gma2rjc said:


> What channel is Railroad Alaska on? I've never seen that show.


Destination America. It is one of the cutover channels, that they split off of the Travel Channel.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks gregzoll. I'll look to see if we have it.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I think I should have mentioned that this is part of a contingency that includes a likely power outage. As my home has ceiling radiant heat I cannot use any type of non-commercial generator to restore heat.

Please, can some one tell me how to properly drain and antifreeze a toilet such as the one pictured in the event we lose power? I'm already planning to cut my supply line at a handy spot next to the water meter in order to drain the house plumbing, and I have 12 P-traps that I will need to fill with antifreeze.

I know that I should walk through the house from top to bottom, opening taps one at a time to pull as much water as possible from the lines (I hope to heck that is the right process) once I crack the system at the meter with the main water shut off.

I really need someone to answer about proper procedure to prepare a ceramic toilet for freezing temperatures, I've never done it before. One thing I do know, if I don't do it right they might crack.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

*Basement Water heaters with Power Loss (electric)*



concretemasonry said:


> For your water heater, no matter what the outside temperatures are the soil and concrete in and under your basement is much warmer than the outside air temperatures because of the thermal mass storage. Here in MN our soils about 4' down are about 50-55F and there is a many week lag to cause an appreciable lowering.
> 
> For a home with outside wall with lightweight frame construction, the temperature variations will be very radical and faster.
> 
> Dick


Thanks Dick, that is the best news all day. I suspected as much, as we never bother to heat the basement - and fortunately we only have two tiny windows on a wall far from the water heaters.

So if I'm hearing you right, I can forget about draining the water heaters, even if I lose power for 36 hours in sub-zero temperatures?

Will it ever get below zero in a basement under an unheated house? How long does it take if that happens (god forbid).


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

*Please, can some one tell me how to properly drain and antifreeze a toilet?*

The toilet looks like this. It has a good working shutoff valve. We are expecting -22 degrees and this bathroom may not stay above freezing.

If we lose power, I will have to repeat the process on my other three toilets. I have three gallons of RV antifreeze.

My toilets are wall-mounted commercial type.


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

I have to laugh when I see people preparing for these big storms. My basic plan is to just let the government take care of everything. Around here we have no local government to get in the way, so it will just be fema all the way.


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

From reading your posts I think one of the main points you are missing is to let the water drip. More as the temp drops inside the home. Sometimes a slow drip does not do it. Go buy a vented natural gas heater big enough to take the edge of the whole house...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

It took about 36 hours when we lost power in 2006, for the temp in the house to get around 46. That was with the furnace set at 68. It was also before I replaced the old back door and airsealed the heck out of this place, along with placing the foam over the basement windows and putting up insulation around the Rim area in the basement.

I find in my house, that on a night like they are talking about for Monday's overnight temps, and the windchill., the temp drop rate is around a degree approx. every 45 Min's.

I would just go about business as usual. It is supposed to start warming up early Wednesday, so if you do loose power, it probably will not be bad enough to warrant going through the Winterizing process.

If I remember in 2006. I just went downstairs and shut off the water main, left the water heater alone, since it was a standing pilot draft unit, no electric to function. Then I just drained the water out of lines, by opening up the faucets.

I do not even remember if I drained from the laundry tap, to relieve any pressure in the line. So if the power was out longer that weekend, I did not want to deal with the headaches of trying to get a broken water pipe fixed.

We were still new homeowners at that time, but having resources to go stay with my wife's grandmother, who had heat and electricity, we had a warm place to stay.

What was funny about that weekend. We had a shopping trip for my wife's work that we went on to Wood field mall. So all day up in Chicago, the wife would check in with her grandmother to see what the latest was.

We actually were without power for around 36 hours. When it came back on, turned on the water, made some coffee and enjoyed being back in our own home after a day.

My brother now, he has a couple of monitor heaters for his place up in Watertown, NY that he uses when the power goes out. He is used to this stuff, after thirty years of being in the Army, with the last part of his career with 10 the Mountain Division.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

If you need to let the house freeze---

Turn off the water to the house---open all taps---flush the toilets and drain the tanks, then pour RV anti freeze into the bowl---

No anti freeze? Vacuum or sponge all of the water out of the bowl---

If the heat will be off for an expended period---drain the water heater---

This is not a guarantee ----your water meter could still freeze and crack--
water trapped in pipes that do not drain could still get cracked---


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

In prep for the little cold snap and snow we had. 

I bought a case of beer.
I filled my gas tanks(in case I run out of beer I can get more). 
Brought some fire wood in. 
Charged my batteries for my flash lights. 
Charged my booster battery so I can connect my inverter so I can use my computer and or lap top if power goes out for an extended period of time.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Turn water off to tank. Flush toilet. Pour 3/4 gallon anti freeze in. Put rest in tank.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I commend you for being prepared-----We had a cold snap in 1987? where the temperatures dropped to -27 ---

I was out working until the wee hours and watched an amazing site---the power transformers were blowing up ---the power lines shrunk--and snapped---over loading the transformers---

Our area seldom gets that cold--I wonder if the wires are given more slack in the cold areas north of us---??


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

oh'mike said:


> Our area seldom gets that cold--I wonder if the wires are given more slack in the cold areas north of us---??


That would be my guess.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That was one chilly night as I recall---sure did catch the people that neglected the antifreeze in their cars---


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

It is supposed to start raining here this evening and turn to snow later tonight and the temps keep dropping to around 1 degree, on the mountains it will be below zero, I am sure glad we are down in a valley. I sure wouldn't want to try going up or down some of these mountain roads after the ice, your tires won't hardly hold going up some of these mountain roads when dry, and when wet they do a lot of spinning. 

If we loose power we will just go out in the camper, it has propane heat.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I've got to make sure that I'm ready for service calls---so I'll be warming up the engine and sorting out my plumbing supplies today---


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

oh'mike said:


> I've got to make sure that I'm ready for service calls---so I'll be warming up the engine and sorting out my plumbing supplies today---


Yeah!!! 
Fractured, shower control yesterday! 
I guess it got cold!
At least, it wasn't the pipes!


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Yesterday we fixed a burst pipe caused by an air leak into a soffit---

Now it has 8 cans of Great stuff and lots of fiberglass---and we left the water off and drained until this odd weather passes-(vacant apartment)


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

beenthere said:


> Turn water off to tank. Flush toilet. Pour 3/4 gallon anti freeze in. Put rest in tank.


Ayuh,... I use automotive antifreeze, so I flush the toilet, use a brush to move as much standin' water as possible over the hump,...
Then pour 'bout 1/2 of the gallon into the bowl, 'n the other 1/2 into the tank,...

'n while that'll save the Toilet,...
The water line goin' to it, is Still a Freeze problem,...

I plumbed my summer house to be self drainin', when I shut-down the water system, so's the water feed line is Safe,...

I also pour 'bout a pint of antifreeze into each drain-trap,...
Kitchen, bath, etc....


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Bondo said:


> Ayuh,... I use automotive antifreeze, so I flush the toilet, use a brush to move as much standin' water as possible over the hump,...
> Then pour 'bout 1/2 of the gallon into the bowl, 'n the other 1/2 into the tank,...
> 
> 'n while that'll save the Toilet,...
> ...



Figured from his other thread that he is going to drain the water lines.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

I'd also plunge the bowl to push as much water out as possible before putting the anti freeze in. what we do at the summer trailer ( no heat in winter unless we stop there) :

1 ) turn water off
2) drain water heater
3) force RV antifreeze into lines, opening one end connection at a time till we see the anti freeze
4) flush toilet till water in tank not draining anymore.
5) RV antifreeze in tank
6) plunge toilet to get most water out
7) RV antifreeze in bowl.

no issues yet in 10ish years, northern WI.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

imautoparts said:


> I'm going to keep a close eye on the weather and make a last bonsai beer run in my beloved 1994 Dodge Caravan All Wheel Drive. It's like crossing a Subaru with a hippy love wagon.
> 
> *Nothing like rolling alone down a barely-visible road with the brights on during heavy snow (try it, you'll like it).* The whole world freezes, muffled under 5 inches of fresh powder.
> 
> PS: Thanks for the tip about the Water Bob.


Ayuh,.... Havin' lived my whole life in the frozen North, I know what ya mean 'bout drivin' in the snow,...
But,....
Dim yer headlights,....
You'll be able to see, Much Better, 'n ya won't be Blindin' other drivers,...
Usin' yer hi-beams is just stupid, 'n counter productive to yerself, 'n everybody else,...




> Our house is heated 100% electrically (whole house radiant). I can't wait to get next month's electric bill.
> For some reason our electrical reliability has been worsening these last few years. Never since the early 1960s had we had any outages at all. I imagine a major factor is the local grid, which was brand new.


Why wouldn't ya just buy a whole house Genset, 'n proper switchin' gear for it,...
Not exactly cheap, but yer life would be quite Pleasant, durin' any sorta power outages,...


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... OP has Tooo many threads goin', 'bout the Same topic,....

I posted in yer Other 2 threads,...


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Two threads merged


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i remember that -27, -60 wind chills. i went out that day, on a bicycle. peddled my ass off one way. hardly any peddling at all coming back. 

it was said on the radio that it was 1985. 

it will be interesting to see what my house does in the -10+deg monday. 
i will be going outside in about 1 hour to snow blow. its about 17 out now.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> I commend you for being prepared-----We had a cold snap in 1987? where the temperatures dropped to -27 ---
> 
> I was out working until the wee hours and watched an amazing site---the power transformers were blowing up ---the power lines shrunk--and snapped---over loading the transformers---
> 
> Our area seldom gets that cold--I wonder if the wires are given more slack in the cold areas north of us---??


Probably not, or there could have been too much ice on the lines, causing them to drop too far.

Cool to watch a transformer blow from a distance away from where it is located.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i had to be outside for a lil while off & on today. it just wasn't fun. -15ish and windy


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

Fix'n it said:


> i had to be outside for a lil while off & on today. it just wasn't fun. -15ish and windy


 me too, wasn't fun for the 15 seconds I moved the wife's van over so the MIL could get in the garage.
or the 30 seconds it took me to go to the mailbox and back


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i was out there for most of 45 minutes, at one point.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I just checked the coldest temp on the planet right now on Google maps. Dudinka, Russia is -50f, with a Feels Like of -50f.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

gregzoll said:


> I just checked the coldest temp on the planet right now on Google maps. Dudinka, Russia is -50f, with a Feels Like of -50f.


 pretty much anything -40 and below should just be "feels like" numb.


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## spaceman spif (Jul 28, 2009)

Today at work I had to work inside a 110° F temperature chamber for almost an hour. An hour later I was walking across a -10° F (-30° with wind chills) parking lot to get to my van.

That's a bit of a difference on the ol' body. :yes:


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Looked at the temps on maps.google.com tonight. Right now it is -50f in Dudinka, Russia, with a Feels Like of -50f. I am not complaining with our temps.

It has been sticking at -9f all day, with a feels like of -32 for most of the day. Right now it is a Feels like of -29f.

This cold did remind me not to wear my Merrill Slip on's outside. I had to work on the garage door, due to the bracket that holds the pulley on one side, somehow flipped over, and the bracket side that looks like an L, was hooking on the door as it was going up, and causing it to cycle back down.

After working on that for fifteen minutes, my feet were frozen. Of course what lead to all of that, the door would not go up at all, due to it was so cold, so I had to pull the Deadman wire, and when trying to put it back in the slot, it would not slip back. So of course had to breathe on that and the plate, to get it back in there, so I could finally close the door to run to the store.

The fun part though, was on the way back, the ABS & Brake light came on, due to the sensors on the brakes had frozen going to Menard's and Meijer's today. At least the AWD worked while I was running my errands.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

OK, here's a debriefing after the snowstorm and sub-arctic below zero weather.

We got 15" of total snow in a 24 hour period, followed by blowing and drifting. Fortunately our temperature hovered around 32 degrees during the snowstorm so we just missed the icing that took out power in neighboring towns. Two towns within 15 miles of my location lost power for the duration of the cold snap.

Our power flickered pretty steadily for about 12 hours, but we never lost it. Only heard one transformer blow up during the coldest period (-18 was the lowest we actually got). This compares favorably to the cold spell we had in the 1980s when you could hear transformers popping all over town when you stood outside. The new transformers must have much better protection against low temp/high load.

A combination of small supplemental space heaters and open cabinet doors to assure air circulation combined with dripping faucets resulted in no freeze damage that we are aware of. I haven't tried my outside faucets yet, but since it is now 40 degrees I think I will try them today.

I was able to return $300 of my prepper supplies that I did not use. I kept the generator, and went ahead and bought a small basement dirty-water pump with the money I got back. I returned all the wire, the spare kerosene heater and unused quartz space heaters, kerosene storage cans etc. The basement pump nearly was necessary yesterday due to 1" of rain and 18" of melting snow. Fortunately the water just cleared my basement drain (I have an alarm) and went back down.

I'm hanging onto 5 gallons of emergency water, one 5 gallon can of kerosene, the antifreeze and tools necessary to face any future freezing issues.

I want to thank everybody on this forum for helping me with this project and for all the moral (immoral?) support. I guess I'm a prepper now.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Actually stuff like Food & Water, you cycle out every six months to a year. Extension cords you always have a use for. I have two 100' cords, and wished that I had at least a 50', so I would not have to connect both 25', when I do not want the 100.

One 100' is #12, same for one of the 25'.

As for your Kerosene, you need to use it in six months, otherwise it will be bad if moisture gets into it.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

gregzoll said:


> As for your Kerosene, you need to use it in six months, otherwise it will be bad if moisture gets into it.


The kerosene someone buys in Sept or Oct is already 6 plus months old. Moisture will settle to the bottom on the tank.
Both #2 and kerosene have a self life, but no one specific time period to be in a persons oil tank.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> Actually stuff like Food & Water, you cycle out every six months to a year. Extension cords you always have a use for. I have two 100' cords, and wished that I had at least a 50', so I would not have to connect both 25', when I do not want the 100.
> 
> One 100' is #12, same for one of the 25'.
> 
> As for your Kerosene, you need to use it in six months, otherwise it will be bad if moisture gets into it.


I've got 2 100 foot cords, I had bought 4 more so I could place small heaters in my various sink cabinets if we lost main power.

As far as Kerosene, I researched quite a bit before deciding to put 5 gallons on the shelf. As long as it is in a sealed container, kerosene, like diesel fuel does not have a shelf life.

I visited both the heet website and several prepper websites and nobody even makes a stabiliser for kerosene. For the purpose of emergency heating the shelf life is widely known to be indefinite. 

Everyone in the prepper community seems to believe that kerosene is the primary ingredient in sta-bil gasoline stabilizer.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

imautoparts said:


> I've got 2 100 foot cords, I had bought 4 more so I could place small heaters in my various sink cabinets if we lost main power.
> 
> *As far as Kerosene, I researched quite a bit before deciding to put 5 gallons on the shelf. As long as it is in a sealed container, kerosene, like diesel fuel does not have a shelf life.*
> 
> ...


Ayuh,.... I completely Agree,.... Gasoline goes Rotten,...

The "Oils" don't,..... #1, Kerosine, 'n #2, home heatin' oil/ diesel fuel,...

They do however need to be kept free of Water, 'n the black bacteria slime,...
'n there are treatments for that,...

I've run diesel, Years old in diesel motors, 'n burnt home fuel oil that's Years old,...
I've lit kerosine lanterns that held the fuel, probably for Decades,... :yes:


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> Looked at the temps on maps.google.com tonight. Right now it is -50f in Dudinka, Russia, with a Feels Like of -50f. I am not complaining with our temps.


Yeah... big change. We were hitting -52f a week or 2 ago and now it's 33!
Weird. We've done a complete reversal. Usually December is not too bad and it's Jan/Feb that are the cold ones.

Lol!
You should try driving at -40. Suspension frozen stiff... No bass whatsoever in the music (frozen woofers). You have to adjust all the mirrors because you don't sink into the seats


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

They are saying another round is on its way. Why not call it what it is. We are going through another Mini Ice Age.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

As a Canadian the only thing I prep for before blizzards is to get up earlier the following morning to give me more time to get the car out so I can get to work on time. :laughing:

Oh, and plugging in the car. Very good idea during -40's.  My auto start also does not really work well in those temps so I have to go start it manually. Cars sound funny when it's that cold.


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## bbo (Feb 28, 2010)

Red Squirrel said:


> . Cars sound funny when it's that cold.


 diesel clatter is awesome.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I loved how the local tv stations, were telling people to get up every couple of hours to start their cars, so that they knew they would start in the morning, when they are ready to drive to work.

Sorry, but what person is going to stay up all night, to make sure their car starts to go to work in the morning.

We have the '02 Trailblazer, that sits in the garage, the other two being a 2005 Pontiac G6 with a three year old battery, and a 2010 Dodge Grand Caravan with what is now a four year old battery. All three started up with no problems, when it was -15 at one point at night, and -9 for most of the day.

I am not wasting gas on starting my car every couple of hours, when it is already expensive.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

bbo said:


> diesel clatter is awesome.


I miss that clatter, when I had to start my truck in cold weather, when I drove for Schneider National. I had the pleasure of driving one of the old Crete Conventional's, when I did Regional for the Wal-mart loads.

Those engines had so much Paraffin in them, it was a wonder that they even ran. The old Cab-Overs ran better, when I had one back in 1997, then the old Crete Red trucks ever did.

I do not miss it one bit, being behind the wheel in bad weather and traffic jams.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> I loved how the local tv stations, were telling people to get up every couple of hours to start their cars, so that they knew they would start in the morning, when they are ready to drive to work.


Yeah, I guess in some parts there are no block heaters and battery warmers... and such a thing as "plugging in".

Many here in Canada have remote starters with cold weather automatic starting (auto starts and runs for 10 minutes every few hours) when not near a plug. Do they not have this in the south?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Bob Sanders said:


> Yeah, I guess in some parts there are no block heaters and battery warmers... and such a thing as "plugging in".
> 
> Many here in Canada have remote starters with cold weather automatic starting (auto starts and runs for 10 minutes every few hours) when not near a plug. Do they not have this in the south?


They do, it is just that some like me do not believe in using that stuff, when it is only a couple of days that we go through this, then it is back in the normal temps (mid 30's.).

Now if I lived up in the U.P. where my in-laws are (Land O'Lakes, WI), then I would be using a heater setup on the Oil pan, battery, engine.

As for Semi's, half the time you do not get the pleasure of plugging in at some places you shut down at, like Truck stops. Half the time the truck was shut down for three days, and when I would start it, it would start right up like a charm.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> If you have ever seen Railroad Alaska, they highlight the off griders. I doubt that a lot of people could even get through four hours of that lifestyle.


I have watched that show and on the reverse side I would love to see those off-gridders get dropped right in the middle of a major bustling city. I dont think they would last 3 hours.

That show is a "complaint-fest". They complain about the weather, complain that the railroad may not be able to run, complain that they can't get their medication, complain that the snow weight is gonna cave in their roof and complain about going out in the cold to the outhouse.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

rosem637 said:


> I have watched that show and on the reverse side I would love to see those off-gridders get dropped right in the middle of a major bustling city. I dont think they would last 3 hours.
> 
> That show is a "complaint-fest". They complain about the weather, complain that the railroad may not be able to run, complain that they can't get their medication, complain that the snow weight is gonna cave in their roof and complain about going out in the cold to the outhouse.


You want to bet. They left the Hustle & Bustle, to move Off Grid. As for the complaining, it is no different then Moonshiners, Bering Sea Gold, and the others.

I like watching it just for the Railroad crew, and what they have to deal with. As for the gridders, the majority is due to the producers want them to act stressed out, to make it sound like they endure worse hardships being off grid, then it really is.

Really how some of them are living, is no different then what I see up in the Land O'Lakes, WI area with some of the homes that you have to drive five miles through the National forest to get to them.

You learn when living up in that area, to stock up, Winter time when the Lake Effect comes through, it can be days to get out by vehicle, or you use a Snow Mobile to get to where you parked your car.

If you notice on RR Alaska, some of those people have Satellite TV & Satellite Internet.

Personally I would not mind getting away from the Hustle & Bustle, just to enjoy the peace and quiet on a lake. I would though put up a Bear defense around the property, since the wife would let the dog go running outside off the leash.


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## collegetry (Feb 7, 2012)

gregzoll said:


> You want to bet. They left the Hustle & Bustle, to move Off Grid. As for the complaining, it is no different then Moonshiners, Bering Sea Gold, and the others.


Bering Sea Gold is a good show. To me being off-grid but on a TV show does not add up.

I still watch RR Alaska though.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I enjoy the prepper shows a bit, and I really enjoy my two brothers-in-law, both of whom live in electric-only trailers in rural Paulding county ohio.

Neither of them have running water, sewer or natural gas on their property. One heats with wood only, with a Kerosene heater for supplement. The other has a small propane tank and an in-wall radiant heater in the middle of the trailer.

They both have wells on their property but the expense and poor water quality has led them to instead rely on jugs of water and borrowed showers.

You know what? They are as happy and self-satisfied as anybody I know paying $700 a month for rent.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Red Squirrel said:


> As a Canadian the only thing I prep for before blizzards is to get up earlier the following morning to give me more time to get the car out so I can get to work on time. :laughing:
> 
> Oh, and plugging in the car. Very good idea during -40's.  My auto start also does not really work well in those temps so I have to go start it manually. Cars sound funny when it's that cold.


 As I stated earlier it seems that the further north you go the less concerned with the cold people are.... 

The sky didn't fall !! :whistling2:

I think about 99% of the folks reading this have no idea how far into northern Ontario you really are. 

12 weeks a year that are actually frost free. And not a whole lot of civilization north of you..


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

imautoparts said:


> I enjoy the prepper shows a bit, and I really enjoy my two brothers-in-law, both of whom live in electric-only trailers in rural Paulding county ohio.
> 
> Neither of them have running water, sewer or natural gas on their property. One heats with wood only, with a Kerosene heater for supplement. The other has a small propane tank and an in-wall radiant heater in the middle of the trailer.
> 
> ...


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

Red Squirrel said:


> Oh, and plugging in the car. Very good idea during -40's.  My auto start also does not really work well in those temps so I have to go start it manually. Cars sound funny when it's that cold.


Agreed. At -40 you have only ONE good crack at starting before the battery gives up and the remote start seems to disengage the starter way too early.

I never really have any trouble cranking the motor over (when plugged in) but it's rather the battery. At -40 there simply isn't a lot of juice in even the more expensive ones. A few years back though I added a battery warmer and that does the trick.

Funny noises? Oh yes!


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

creeper said:


> As I stated earlier it seems that the further north you go the less concerned with the cold people are....
> .


Yes... it's just another day. But then the natural occurring weather here has already made us prepared, which makes the difference. We just just say "oh well" and throw the parkas on, on the way out the door to work. People in the South though don't normally deal with this and therefore houses aren't properly insulated, heating systems aren't up to the job, no block heaters, etc. Given that, you can understand why it becomes such a big deal.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

creeper said:


> As I stated earlier it seems that the further north you go the less concerned with the cold people are....


like bob said. you people are used to, and more prepared, for it. we are not. most deal with it. others wait it out.


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

rosem637 said:


> Bering Sea Gold is a good show. *To me being off-grid but on a TV show does not add up.*
> 
> I still watch RR Alaska though.


I was watching one of the Alaska shows a while back. Some guy in the middle of nowhere with a snowmobile that wouldn't start was going on and on about how he was gonna freeze to death if he couldn't get it started. 
I'm thinking "Just ask the cameraman for a ride." 
Sheesh.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Blondesense said:


> I was watching one of the Alaska shows a while back. Some guy in the middle of nowhere with a snowmobile that wouldn't start was going on and on about how he was gonna freeze to death if he couldn't get it started.
> I'm thinking "Just ask the cameraman for a ride."
> Sheesh.


Yeah I always wonder how these shows work, or if the whole thing is just acting. Like those 1 man survivor type shows (the guy that drinks his own pee etc). Doesn't he have a camera crew with him? How are they living, do they have all this food and stuff that they can't let him have? lol


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Red Squirrel said:


> Yeah I always wonder how these shows work, or if the whole thing is just acting. Like those 1 man survivor type shows (the guy that drinks his own pee etc). Doesn't he have a camera crew with him? How are they living, do they have all this food and stuff that they can't let him have? lol


They are not supposed to intervene. There has been one instance during filming, that they have had to use the film crew, to help out on one of the renovation shows. Another the crew actually did end up helping the person out, due to no one else was around.

Very rare does the crew ever get involve during the filming.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Sounds like good rationale for supporting the local library.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

gregzoll said:


> They are not supposed to intervene. There has been one instance during filming, that they have had to use the film crew, to help out on one of the renovation shows. Another the crew actually did end up helping the person out, due to no one else was around.
> 
> Very rare does the crew ever get involve during the filming.


Yeah... watching Ice Road Truckers (filmed here btw) and there was one time the cameraman had to lend a hand, So it does happen, but the moments have to pretty extreme.

There are other times of course where the camera crew actually becomes part of the story when their lives are just as threatened. Deadliest Catch is a good example of that where the camera crew is on the very same boat being rolled over by the very same wave.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Bob Sanders said:


> Yes... it's just another day. But then the natural occurring weather here has already made us prepared, which makes the difference. We just just say "oh well" and throw the parkas on, on the way out the door to work. People in the South though don't normally deal with this and therefore houses aren't properly insulated, heating systems aren't up to the job, no block heaters, etc. Given that, you can understand why it becomes such a big deal.


 
Gee Bob don't you remember all those century homes and pre war bungalows that had little to zero insulation. ?? Plaster and lathe walls lined with sheets of newspaper??

Nevermind " we people " should be used to harsh conditions


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## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

Red Squirrel said:


> Yeah I always wonder how these shows work, or if the whole thing is just acting. Like those 1 man survivor type shows (the guy that drinks his own pee etc). Doesn't he have a camera crew with him? How are they living, do they have all this food and stuff that they can't let him have? lol


I miss Dirty Jobs. Not only did Mike Rowe have a great sense of humor, they never tried to pretend the camera crew didn't exist.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

Blondesense said:


> I miss Dirty Jobs. Not only did Mike Rowe have a great sense of humor, they never tried to pretend the camera crew didn't exist.


 They don't do that show anymore? I did not realize. And yeah I thought it added to it that they did not act like the camera crew did not exist, one time he spat something at the camera then it changed angles and you can see the camera man cleaning the camera and shaking his head. :laughing:


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Red Squirrel said:


> They don't do that show anymore? I did not realize. And yeah I thought it added to it that they did not act like the camera crew did not exist, one time he spat something at the camera then it changed angles and you can see the camera man cleaning the camera and shaking his head. :laughing:


I liked that show a lot. It was really good to see/hear Mike give the film crew props for all the things they had to do that wouldn't normally be seen on another show.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

Mike is doing the commentary for Bering Sea Gold (Under the Ice). That baritone voice of his makes him lots of $$ with Ford commercials etc. They dredge for gold under the ice and had an incident on the last show where one diver got his hoses tangled/ was running out of air/could not find the hole in the ice and the diver cameraman had to help him. Guy says "guess I was not being careful". Fool coulda died and I guess a few have.

Heck we get lots of people from Africa, Phillipines etc immigrating to Canada/Winnipeg and have never seen the snow or cold. First winter must be tough but after that they buy parkas and have the same metabolism as everyone else and don't freeze to death.

Like Bob said there is not a lot of juice in a battery at -40 and yeah I used to have a battery warmer blanket on my old Blazer and it makes a huge difference.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

creeper said:


> Gee Bob don't you remember all those century homes and pre war bungalows that had little to zero insulation. ?? Plaster and lathe walls lined with sheets of newspaper??
> 
> Nevermind " we people " should be used to harsh conditions


I actually live in one of those. My house just turned 100 last year.

It's not really that they didn't have insulation. It's merely that the insulating technology was different for the time. An isolated air cavity created inside the wall was very common in those days. It works in much the same way as the double and triple pane sealed window units of today. It's just not as efficient as the choices we have now is all.

Of course I have since updated (among other things) insulation, and the reason I've done it is because heating a house is EXTREMELY expensive today as compared to 100 years ago.. and there lies the difference.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

You must be in Wolseley. Just drive around River Heights/Academy road area and look at the roofs of those 2-3 story houses. Huge icicles hanging from them as they have no or poor attic insulation. I have heard of people paying $200-300/month to heat those old homes ( not too mention the problem of squirrels getting into their attics). Plenty of old asbestos covered boilers there too. Nice to have those trees and character in the neighborhood but there is a "price" to pay. Did I mention knob and tube wiring.:laughing:


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I am a HUGE fan of D.B. Cooper so please...(and I am very serious, cuz this is a great thread) ...continue on the new topic.

I miss Mike Rowe a lot. 

For one thing, he has a true 'voice.' So few people any more are like Mike - who stands in the footsteps of Walter Cronkite and other great voices of TV history.

Any more people are on TV because they are either beautiful or interesting. Mike Rowe has the whole package, because he looks fine, he is an interesting guy, and he has that voice.

So anyway, I think we should keep letting this conversation wander. I wonder if we could set some kind of record for keeping a thread alive?

You guys have inspired me - thanks.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

one of my favorites

http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/snuggie-41478/?highlight=snuggie


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

yuri said:


> You must be in Wolseley. Just drive around River Heights/Academy road area and look at the roofs of those 2-3 story houses. Huge icicles hanging from them as they have no or poor attic insulation. I have heard of people paying $200-300/month to heat those old homes ( not too mention the problem of squirrels getting into their attics). Plenty of old asbestos covered boilers there too. Nice to have those trees and character in the neighborhood but there is a "price" to pay. Did I mention knob and tube wiring.:laughing:


No. St James actually, but yeah... I can relate to the squirrels! The wife and I were sitting on the couch in the Fall watching TV. There was a big rain storm going on at the time. All of a sudden we heard a HUGE gushing of water into the back mud room. As it turns out a nice friendly family of squirrels ate the decking away from under the shingles. Of course the shingles sagged and formed this really neat and rather large swimming pool........


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## JKeefe (Jan 4, 2013)

imautoparts said:


> Mike Rowe has the whole package, because he looks fine, he is an interesting guy, and he has that voice.


Fun fact: he used to be a professional opera singer.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

not a big fan of old houses I am. nice to visit but I would not want to own one. Just like watchin the This Old House Hour show. once you touch one thing you touch everything.:yes: Wiring/plumbing etc etc it never ends. I like my vinyl windows/stucco and aluminum trim. No painting required.:no:


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

imautoparts said:


> I miss Mike Rowe a lot.
> 
> For one thing, he has a true 'voice.' So few people any more are like Mike - who stands in the footsteps of Walter Cronkite and other great voices of TV history.
> 
> Any more people are on TV because they are either beautiful or interesting. Mike Rowe has the whole package, because he looks fine, he is an interesting guy, and he has that voice.


I wish TV's were scratch and sniff. It would add a whole new dimension to Dirty Jobs


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Mike Rowe started a foundation to help young people get into the skilled trades...

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/giving-back/


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm not surprised Mike Rowe does good things with his money.

One thing about the new reality shows - it is becoming obvious through Pawn Stars, American Pickers, Duck Dynasty and others that America appreciates people who are decent, friendly and kindly to others. 

I think it says a lot about USA culture that the kinder and gentler shows are renewed year after year. Despite popular myth the world is not such a brutal place as most TV would like us to imagine.


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## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Did you know that Mike Rowe was an Eagle Scoutt?




imautoparts said:


> I
> One thing about the new reality shows - it is becoming obvious through Pawn Stars, American Pickers, Duck Dynasty and others that America appreciates people who are decent, friendly and kindly to others.
> 
> I think it says a lot about USA culture that the kinder and gentler shows are renewed year after year. Despite popular myth the world is not such a brutal place as most TV would like us to imagine.


Are you kidding me? What it really shows is how stupid America is. I have 'tried' to watch some of the above programs....sorry...can't do it...there is little reality to them. So much of that is done for the camera...I don't even watch Cops any more....too much playing up to the camera.


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

imautoparts said:


> I think it says a lot about USA television  culture that the kinder and gentler shows are renewed year after year. Despite popular myth the USA is not such a brutal place as most TV would like us to imagine.


 There !! I fixed it for you


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

something for everyone.:yes: now if we could get rid of some of those idiotic game shows and the jerree springer stuff I would feel better. hard to believe there is an intellect level for that kind of stuff.:laughing:


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Only 3 weeks left to go!! And its going to be sooo awesome...can't wait..

.Here is a sampler of some of the very best "Reality" tv worth watching. love LOVE LOVE this video

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=WY6PLLNX


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm surprised Gold Rush hasn't been mentioned. I try to watch it when I can. 
They have done a couple episodes devoted to the production of the show. 
I gotta say, there are a lot of people and cameras at the site during filming


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

There used to be a good show on that was similar to Ice Road Truckers where the drivers, one of which was a woman, drove trucks on some very
dangerous mountain roads in India. That was pretty good too.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

gma2rjc said:


> There used to be a good show on that was similar to Ice Road Truckers where the drivers, one of which was a woman, drove trucks on some very
> dangerous mountain roads in India. That was pretty good too.


I think that was a spin off from Ice Road.
The city driving was as bad as the mountains.....


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Yes, the city driving was bad too. I think they had to get special permission for the woman driver to be able to drive a truck there. 

I love driving in the mountains, but you couldn't pay me enough to drive on the roads they used in that show.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

creeper said:


> There !! I fixed it for you


 
Lately I've had the impression that Television culture IS American culture :wink:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

gma2rjc said:


> Yes, the city driving was bad too. I think they had to get special permission for the woman driver to be able to drive a truck there.
> 
> I love driving in the mountains, but you couldn't pay me enough to drive on the roads they used in that show.


I was watching that show, I couldn't stand to look, that was just crazy. I didn't use to be afraid of heights, I could walk the top plate on a three story building and not think anything of it, not now.

Man did I get this thread off track, sorry.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

That is Lisa Kelly from Ice Road Truckers and she has her own web site. Probably right now she is out on one of those roads as 1/2 of the show is now made in Manitoba where I am. Lots of remote villages and native reserves up North and the only economical way to get freight there is over those roads. Apparently in the future we may have airships doing the same job and they are working on them now.

The off shoot show was in India or Nepal I believe and wow those roads are crazy and the truck she drove or they drive are ridiculously unfit to drive IMO.


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## imautoparts (Oct 10, 2012)

I stopped watching Ice Road truckers when they let one of the big burly guys drive an independent road in Canada and he was hotdogging for the camera the whole way.

When he got to the destination the owner of the trailer was almost in tears from the unnecessary damage - the route he took was deliberately the roughest, worst road in the area.

I won't buy car insurance from companies that wreck things in their ads, and I won't watch Ice Road Truckers for the same reason.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Take all the drama out of most of those programs and you would have nothing, some are not much now. We watch less and less TV all the time now days.


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## yuri (Nov 29, 2008)

I only watch a few channels: [email protected], Discovery, Smithsonian, History but find quite a bit more good stuff nowadays. Especially with a high def TV it is great.

Moonshiners, Swamp People, Gold Rush, and there is a new one coming called Shelby the Swamp Man who is that wacky guy from Swamp People or Ax Men 2 yrs ago. After that I surf the net


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