# Brush vs Mini Roller for Cabinets (BM Advance)



## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

Started our kitchen cabinet painting this week. Got the doors off and the holes filled and sanded. Going to take TSP to the doors today and clean as best as possible. After that I will sand the doors lightly then use primer on the doors.

Finally after that, I will get to the painting. Going to use Benjamin Moore Advance paint with no top coat. Hopefully 2 coats will cover but will do 3 if necessary - nice and thin.

My question is I know I will need to use a brush to get around the inlay and trim work on the cabinets but for the face, frame, and box, should I use the same brush or go with a roller? From what I can tell, Advance is pretty forgiving with a soft brush but wondering other's thoughts? 

If I should go with a roller, should I use the hot dog type foam or hot dog type "traditional style" roller??

Thank you everyone.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I am thinking of getting myself in trouble again but I would never use a thin nap roller cover on nicely prepped and primed cabinets. I would never use a foam thingie. Personally I would use 3/4" nap but wait for the screams from my former men and women in white when they read this. 

I would also think of finishing them the old fashion way with a nice, new, 2.5 or 3 inch angled sash brush. Frames and all. I despise those little make believe rollers. To a point.

I would buy a quart of Floetrol or similar paint conditioner also. Of course, especially if using latex or acrylics, I would rinse my brush out completely if it started feeling heavy or I noticed deep bristle marks in my finish---even with a paint conditioner. 

Then I would see what I had done. Latex and acrylic products take 30 days to cure. At least the ones from a real paint stores do. Never rush materials on your project. Doing so can only end badly. 

And buddy, prepping only to the point of the best you can do can be spelled SLACKER. You do know that you can make this paint job work. You are doing everything right. Do not skimp on the prep. The process lacks any sense of glamor but it makes all the difference. A good lasting paint job is 90 percent prep, coat of nice primer, and two coats of finish making up the 10 percent.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

I agree with previous comment, but I might add that you can get a nice finish with either brush or roller, but it will be a little different. I actually agree that unless you have the perfect roller, a brush will give a nicer finish if you finish a door with nice light and even strokes.
I'm not going to scream at a 3/4" nap, but dont lay the paint on too thick. Best is a microfiber or high quality foam.

I recommend painting the doors flat on a table, the paint will level better. 

Prep is king. you want to lay the primer on as if its a finish coat as well.


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## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

I am not planning to skimp on anything, prep especially. I am following all of the steps as I understand them. Tonight I will sand the wood filler and apply another coat (if necessary) then sand again after dry. Later tonight I will wash all of the doors and cabinet boxes down with TSP+water.

After that I am going to give the cabinet boxes and doors a light sanding to rough up surface. They are 29 years old and not much of a finish left on them so the extra sand will make a big difference I think.

I will use a good quality foam roller to apply the primer to doors/cabinets (where applicable) and of course a brush where applicable. I don't want to run into any issues with orange peel or texture after paint so perhaps the best idea is to use a brush and just use roller to put the paint on the boxes and door inserts and then go over with a brush to smooth everything out.

The BM Advance is supposed to be self-leveling (to a point) so I am hoping this will take care of any little brush marks left. I think orange peel/stipple texture would be a bigger issue.

Also this is all being down on a "table" I setup in the basement so everything will be laying flat for prep, paint, etc. (except boxes of course).


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

Yes, using a roller the enemy is orange peel, with a brush its brush marks.
Each method works, just a slightly different "enemy"

you can sand (and then wipe clean) between coats as well to combat any texture.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I use a Purdy brand 2-1/2" sash brush for the low areas and A 6" foam roller for the rest. Mine come out as smooth as glass with no sanding between coats.
Even painting a smooth steel door looked like a factory finish when I got done.
Only time I've had to use Flotrol is when it's real hot outside.


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## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

So you did not encounter any issues using roller? No bubbles or anything?

Were there any bubbles or texture while the paint was wet? Or was there none before or after?

Thanks


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No bubbles, normal marks as you rolled but in a few seconds it leveled out.
I used enamel on the cabints and Acrilic latex ext. on the door and both came out perfect.


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## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

I see, Ben Moore Advance is a "waterborne interior alkyd" which I understand means a soap and water cleanup oil paint. Apparently it is highly recommended for cabinets and I know of a couple people who have used it with good results including taking abuse from kids plastic toys.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

NickWa said:


> I see, Ben Moore Advance is a "waterborne interior alkyd" which I understand means a soap and water cleanup oil paint. Apparently it is highly recommended for cabinets and I know of a couple people who have used it with good results including taking abuse from kids plastic toys.


Need to change your thinking just a bit. It is not an "oil" paint. It leaves an alkyd film on the surface. It is nice stuff. And you can wash up after with soap and water. 

It is horrible to work with, in my opinion, but melamine might be a better choice if you plan on having kids with plastic toys scratching cabinet finishes. My solution has always been to just lock the kids inside cabinets for 12-15 years. Those that learn to conform to the space under a dishwasher and garbage disposal go to circus schools and love the experience.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

sdsester said:


> Need to change your thinking just a bit. It is not an "oil" paint. It leaves an alkyd film on the surface. It is nice stuff. And you can wash up after with soap and water.
> 
> It is horrible to work with, in my opinion, but melamine might be a better choice if you plan on having kids with plastic toys scratching cabinet finishes. My solution has always been to just lock the kids inside cabinets for 12-15 years. Those that learn to conform to the space under a dishwasher and garbage disposal go to circus schools and love the experience.


 
What about the ones that don't?:whistling2:


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Before you apply BM Advance with 3/4 cover, put on your running shoes, because you're going to be chasing after it all day. Huge mistake. Advance has a high tendency to run and sag if not applied/spread properly, or too heavily, which a 3/4 will do. IMO, a 3/4 cover on smooth cabinetry is insanity. I brush the detail and roll out the flats with a mohair or 3/16 cover, exactly what those covers are designed for. 
Choose your weapon OP, do one/two doors and stop for an hour or so and wait to see if your app technique is appropriate. If you get runs/sags, you need to adjust you application. There is a product called Cabinet Coat, designed for cabinets, is easier to work with and has the durability you need. Consider some options. Have fun. I love doing cabinets.


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## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

Ok thanks for advice. I thought 3/4 was a bit drastic. So many differing opinions on things I will have to just find out the most popular and go for it. :thumbup:

I got the doors and boxes filled with wood filler and sanded before I went to sleep last night. Tonight I will get the wife to help me wash all of it down with TSP and water (will try 10 to 1 and mix stronger if need be). That will take the rest of tonight.

Tomorrow we will start priming the boxes and the backs of the doors. That means tonight we will have to get the primer. Can I get a recommendation.

The people at BM recommended Insl-x Stix primer and the people at another interior design/paint store recommended Zinsser 1-2-3. Stix is $55, 1-2-3 is $35. Not sure if Stix is that much better.

Insl-x Stix

Zinnser 1-2-3

Primer will go on with 2" Wooster Sash brush and 4" foam roller. I am not as concerned about bubbling or orange peel on this as much as I am even coverage. I will be doing a light sand after primer anyways.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Three things Nick
TSP-be sure to get a good rinse.
Stix- I was told that you need to topcoat within 48 hours or it requires a good sanding after. Used it yesterday, nice product. The 123 will serve just as well, maybe save a buck, or twenty.
Foam roller, something I could never get the hang of. I found it difficult to work with, especially when it came to uniformity, though some swear by them, can't see it. Unless you're certain of you skill with it, buy a mohair or 3/16 to have on hand just in case.


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## NickWa (Nov 17, 2011)

Thank you for the help.

Perhaps then I will save $20 and get the 1-2-3 and use it to pick up a couple good quality rollers/brushes to have on hand for the project. 

There are no stains on the cabinets/wood, they are good shape and not much clear coat on top. It is not the super smooth oak that some new cabinets are made of, it is the thinner oak that has the large grain that can be felt.

It's unfortunate that the grain will probably show through when all is said and done but it will be a big improvement for our house (going for contemporary style).


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