# Evolution in living spaces



## Mystriss

As a retiree with a voracious curiosity I occasionally come across technological revolutions in the typically mundane realities of life.

Today I've come across a YouTube video titled "The Toilet An Unspoken History," which I'll not link because of the explicit word choices contained within, but which I found quite educational and fascinating. (I was ironically recommended said video due to my search history containing a mix of medieval historical subjects and US politics - I am indeed still chuckling.)

In any event, the end of the video discussed a possible future toilet being worked on in Holland which uses microwaves to vaporize the waste, converting it into plasma, and ultimately into electricity to power the "toilet" itself. A completely independent system that requires no water, no septic, and no electricity. It could be put anywhere in the world!


I'm wondering what other "mundane" evolution's folks here heard about?


----------



## Canarywood1

How in the world will Asia fertilize their rice paddies??


----------



## Bud9051

We know that water is in short supply in some areas and will probably become more scarce as populations grow and pollution increases but a few years back (and it is still going on) they addressed two problems, adding to our water supply and getting rid of processed waste. I'll give you time to stop gagging. Yes, they are currently pumping processed waste back into the ground to ultimately be recycled by nature into drinking water.

The primary purpose in some areas is to dispose of the waste. But somehow it just seems like sweeping a problem under the proverbial rug. So, perhaps the "vaporize the waste" approach needs to hurry up.

Bud


----------



## Mystriss

The entire "idea" behind the western modern septic is washing waste away, which in itself is wasteful, and really not practical on a 'global' scale. When talking about "first world" nations who have the money and determination it basically works, but when you're talking about less developed nations who don't have the same ideologies when it comes to things like "class" (for lack of a better term) and "will to make it happen for the good of everyone." 

Developing and poor nations don't have that option/drive, the video details India specifically where kids are literally playing in poop, bringing it home on their hands, feet, and clothes, and they basically all eat it (accidentally) It's horrifying to me, I mean I didn't even like the dogs drinking out of the toilet that I personally cleaned and bleached, I won't use a public bathroom unless I have zero other choice (I'd much rather find a bush than touch a public toilet seat/flush handle/door handle) 

For place like that, for the slums of India, for the remote villages of the bush in Alaska here, for Africa, the Middle East, N. Korea, China, South America, etc. I really think this "plasma toilet" solution is amazing.

And I'm quite sure the rice patties can find enough livestock poo for their fertilizer.


----------



## Mystriss

While it's a bit outside the individual space of the home, I'm adding this potentially awesome tech to my list; basically CO2 scrubbers. They pull CO2 out of the air and convert it into a product that can be used as fuel. 

Learn more here: https://carbonengineering.com/ce-videos/


----------



## DoomsDave

Interesting discussion on many levels.

Sewers changed the course of history, I think, at least in the west. They made cities bearable to live in. Read accounts of pre-sewer London, where "Chamber pots" sometimes got tossed out windows onto passers-by below. 

Sewers helped tame the spread of many diseases spread that way. Typhus was a regular problem. Sewage and sanitation have made it a thing of the past, sort of, at least in the U.S. and Western Europe and Japan.


----------



## lenaitch

A self-powering plasma toilet would benefit some societies. The developers would have to get it to point of being completely trouble and maintenance free.
I don't know if there have been studies on this but I would imagine that the immune systems of people who live in the conditions in India that you described are astonishing robust. Many societies exist in conditions that would likely kill the average North American.
CO2 scrubbers have been around for years, but the concept of turning the byproduct into something useful is interesting.


Not directly related to living spaces, but the one that caught my eye a couple of years ago was the (body) heat powered flashlight. And it was developed by a highschooler. Still in early stages but an interesting concept. I couldn't get the video on the link to work but there a couple of Youtubes on it:


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/inno...-powered-by-the-touch-of-your-hand-180950226/


----------



## user_12345a

Sewage is only waste because it's mixed with other wastes in a municipal sewage system.

The nutrients in the soil are being depleted because they aren't being returned. Vaporization is the wrong way to go. When the raw resources for fertilizer get depleted (including natural gas which is used to make nitrogen based fertilizer), we'll have to resort to not treating sewage is waste any more.

There are composting toilets out there.


----------



## Mystriss

Hmmm... http://ceadserv1.nku.edu/longa/haiti/kids/feces_value.html

This says nearly half the human poop in the US is put down on the land as fertilizer. * https://modernfarmer.com/2014/07/stink-human-poop-fertilizer/ (Apparently you're not allowed to use human "biosolids" on oranic food, a curious distinction gotta wonder why. -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...5a3617c767b_story.html?utm_term=.b39d1d874c0c)


Related - composting toilet; ratio of poo and other compost material for home made garden fertilizer.



In any event, scientists say the human "biosolids" have to be processed twice before they are safe to use for farming needs [aka edible.] Places that don't have sewage treatment plants (or plumbing) would benefit more from the plasma toilet than they would from throwing their potentially toxic raw sewage on their fields thinking they were reintroducing nutrients heh


----------



## user_12345a

> In any event, scientists say the human "biosolids" have to be processed twice before they are safe to use for farming needs [aka edible.] Places that don't have sewage treatment plants (or plumbing) would benefit more from the plasma toilet than they would from throwing their potentially toxic raw sewage on their fields thinking they were reintroducing nutrients heh


obviously the proper precautions have to be taken. I'm not fond of using sewage contaminated with other stuff on farmer's fields. 

destroying nutrients will harm us in the long run. we don't need fancy technology - usually every new technology introduced creates new problems.


----------



## lenaitch

The way I understand it (but haven't bothered to research) is the enzymes and gut bacteria of carnivores/omnivores (incl. us) is different and more 'aggressive' than herbivores, and remains in the waste without further 'processing'. Horse manure still looks a lot like the hay they ate, breaks down very quickly and is absolutely benign. The down side is there is comparatively little nutrition in forage so grazers have to eat almost constantly (managed feed in domesticated animals with grains, etc. changes this somewhat). Our manure pile was topsoil in about a year.


There was a small town in eastern Ontario that was piloting a project that sprayed liquefied sewage in freezing air, the theory being that the instant freezing of the droplets ruptured the cells of the bacteria and killed it. Obviously limited in application. I don't know how it panned out.


----------



## user_12345a

sewage as in the waste product after processing? not the same.


----------



## Mystriss

Cellphone wall scanner? Yes, please!

https://walabot.com/diy


----------



## DallasCowboys

I like the idea of Tesla's solar shingles and storage batteries. 

I would like to see the cost of solar shingles come down to a level that would be competitive with traditional shingles and everyone would produce their own electricity during the day, store the excess in batteries and retrieve it at night.


Unfortunately, Elon Musk makes a lot of promises but he doesn't keep them all. The man is amazing, but he has too many projects going at one time. 

Today he launched a rocket into space that had 60 satellites on it....wow.
Good for him......now, let's get those solar shingles produced.




I also like the idea of zero energy housing. Homes that are super efficient (thicker walls and more insulation ) and with the use of solar panels produce as much energy as they consume in one year.


Imagine, if all the homes in America ( or around the world) produced their own energy. I think homes consume 1/3 of all the energy produced in the U.S. 

If we produced our own energy at home and reduced energy needs nationwide by 1/3......we could shut down a nuclear plant, or a coal plant, or tear down a hydro dam and restore fish to certain areas.......


Maybe one day........


https://www.tesla.com/powerwall


https://www.tesla.com/solarroof


https://www.lgesspartner.com/front/normal/en/main/main.dev


----------



## FlowerPower

Saving the Earth one flush at a time!


----------



## Nik333

DoomsDave said:


> Interesting discussion on many levels.
> 
> Sewers changed the course of history, I think, at least in the west. They made cities bearable to live in. Read accounts of pre-sewer London, where "Chamber pots" sometimes got tossed out windows onto passers-by below.
> 
> Sewers helped tame the spread of many diseases spread that way. Typhus was a regular problem. Sewage and sanitation have made it a thing of the past, sort of, at least in the U.S. and Western Europe and Japan.



Typhus, coming to a street near you. . . 

Typhus has broken out in the homeless camps in LA. True.


----------



## Mystriss

DallasCowboys said:


> I like the idea of Tesla's solar shingles and storage batteries.
> 
> I would like to see the cost of solar shingles come down to a level that would be competitive with traditional shingles and everyone would produce their own electricity during the day, store the excess in batteries and retrieve it at night.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, Elon Musk makes a lot of promises but he doesn't keep them all. The man is amazing, but he has too many projects going at one time.
> 
> Today he launched a rocket into space that had 60 satellites on it....wow.
> Good for him......now, let's get those solar shingles produced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also like the idea of zero energy housing. Homes that are super efficient (thicker walls and more insulation ) and with the use of solar panels produce as much energy as they consume in one year.
> 
> 
> Imagine, if all the homes in America ( or around the world) produced their own energy. I think homes consume 1/3 of all the energy produced in the U.S.
> 
> If we produced our own energy at home and reduced energy needs nationwide by 1/3......we could shut down a nuclear plant, or a coal plant, or tear down a hydro dam and restore fish to certain areas.......
> 
> 
> Maybe one day........
> 
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
> 
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/solarroof
> 
> 
> https://www.lgesspartner.com/front/normal/en/main/main.dev


Those will be nice for folks who don't have winter. No way it's working for us Northerner's though heh


----------



## johny rryan

Its a good enough to have a space with liked bright decor and with floating shelf.


----------



## viper

A septic system is hardly wasteful. Water is used, and sent to the septic tank where bacteria do their thing, then amazingly clean water is sent to the lateral fields, where bacteria finishes the job. Some water goes up evaporates, but the majority goes right back to the water table. In about 4-6ft of soil depth, the lateral effluent is drinking water clean!

Of course the normal crackerbox homes of America do not have room for a septic, but I think the methods need to be considered. Bacteria can just be awesome.


----------



## P C D

How do you vaporize human waste with microwaves without using electricity? 

Being disgusted by your own by-products to the point where you fantasize with "vaporizing" them is definitely a first-world problem.


----------



## DallasCowboys

viper said:


> A septic system is hardly wasteful. Water is used, and sent to the septic tank where bacteria do their thing, then amazingly clean water is sent to the lateral fields, where bacteria finishes the job. Some water goes up evaporates, but the majority goes right back to the water table. In about 4-6ft of soil depth, the lateral effluent is drinking water clean!
> 
> Of course the normal crackerbox homes of America do not have room for a septic, but I think the methods need to be considered. Bacteria can just be awesome.


I know this is an old post.

But if you have a septic field, you might have to worry about the sewage rising to the top ( not the cream) when you have a heavy rain and the ground is saturated.

And you might have to worry about odors in a drought.

And you might have to worry about cholera year round.

Septic tanks and city sewers are fine with me.


----------



## craftedstars

i do hope businesses may apply these things to save Earth. Our mother earth is really not doing okay.


----------



## Mystriss

P C D said:


> How do you vaporize human waste with microwaves without using electricity?
> 
> Being disgusted by your own by-products to the point where you fantasize with "vaporizing" them is definitely a first-world problem.


Sorry I missed your post there.

As I understand the prototype, vaporizing the poo actually creates energy that can be stored up for the next lo... flush heh

It's not about being disgusted though, it's about a self contained toilet system that can be deployed in cities, third world countries, etc.


----------



## NeoHawk

I read somewhere about adding a microwave device to clothing dryer. It would speed up the drying to keep up with the clothes washer.


----------



## viper

DallasCowboys said:


> I know this is an old post.
> 
> But if you have a septic field, you might have to worry about the sewage rising to the top ( not the cream) when you have a heavy rain and the ground is saturated.
> 
> And you might have to worry about odors in a drought.
> 
> And you might have to worry about cholera year round.
> 
> Septic tanks and city sewers are fine with me.


You do realize a septic tank comes with a lateral field, right?? You also don't want to confuse surface water with ground water, and a properly designed system vs improper.


----------

