# HELP Extend Gas Line



## the_man (Aug 14, 2010)

the pro you end up calling will have all the answers for you :yes:


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm trying to avoid calling a pro because I got a price quote from a local plumber of $600 to do this...YIKES!


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## broox (Nov 30, 2010)

mxingislife, It seems like questions like this generate alot of insults and condescending remarks from old plumbers, but very little instruction. Your questions indicate that you have very little knowledge about running gas pipe. I do not feel comfortable trying to explain how to cut, ream, thread, and properly hang and assemble gas piping on the computer. This might sound extreme, but one little undetected leak could kill everyone in the house or at least blow it up. That is all I have to say about that. 


Now does anyone know that website that shows me how to perform my own vasectomy???


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

*


broox said:



mxingislife, It seems like questions like this generate alot of insults and condescending remarks from old plumbers, but very little instruction.

Click to expand...

*


broox said:


> Your questions indicate that you have very little knowledge about running gas pipe. I do not feel comfortable trying to explain how to cut, ream, thread, and properly hang and assemble gas piping on the computer. This might sound extreme, but one little undetected leak could kill everyone in the house or at least blow it up. That is all I have to say about that.
> 
> 
> Now does anyone know that website that shows me how to perform my own vasectomy???



So explain how your " helpful advice" was anymore helpful than actual licensed professionals telling him the same thing?


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## broox (Nov 30, 2010)

insults and condescending remarks


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

600 seems like a high estimate. Is there any help available from your gas provider. I have had new copper line installed for propane and as I remember it was under 200 from the contractor that my gas provider sent. 

My father and I extented natural gas piping for a gas dryer years ago and he mixed up a batch of soapy water to test the joints for leaks but that is now known to be a less-than-safe alternative to a proper pressure test by a pro.


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

broox said:


> insults and condescending remarks


What insults and condescending remarks? I don't see anything of the sort in this thread.

let's re-visit this whole gas issue. Gas is dangerous. Gas explosions and fires kill people. NOBOBY that is not licensed, certified or both should be touching anything having to do with gas appliances and piping other than shutting the gas off if there's a problem. ANYBODY, licensed or otherwise, offering advice to homeowners concerning the repair, alteration, or servicing of gas appliances or gas piping is doing a GRAVE injustice to the OP. If you think some of us are rude or condescending than I suggest that you read the posts more carefully. EVERY time that the thread has degenerated into such posts, it has been because the OP or some other unwise member has decided to ignore the advice FIRST given and that is to call a licensed professional. You want to help folks out with minor plumbing problems that do not possess the potential for doing harm to life and limb or property than go ahead, have a ball, but giving advice on something as dangerous as gas is in my opinion irresponsible at best and tragic at worse.


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## broox (Nov 30, 2010)

NH- I think you confuse the word "than" with the word "then"


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

broox, I understand what you mean. I do have some knowledge of gas lines and I do know that it is not anything to mess around with. I don't need anyone to explain to me how to cut, ream and thread pipe. I was more looking for answers/ideas of ways to help with a nice clean install or just a little advice. I have a friend who works for a local plumbing/mechanical shop and he installs, moves and works with gas lines everyday and he will be helping with this job. I was just looking to get other peoples input on the topic. Thanks.


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## broox (Nov 30, 2010)

Great! You should be fine. My suggestions: 1 put a valve in the line where you start. 2 run as big a line as you the one you tie into. 3 When I ran my gas line in my basement, Wherever I needed a coupling I used a tee with a nipple and cap, so in the future I had places to tie into. 4 I used "split ring hangers" to hang the gas pipe in my basement. There are cheaper ways to hang it, but they look good and are sturdy. GOOD LUCK!!!


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

I understand your post and what you want to do, you might be better off just using your own common sense and work with your buddy who knows gas work.
I find people trying to get answers on DIY regarding "GAS " work get nothing but frustration at the answers they get.
Even though they get advise on heaters that blow up,air conditioners that blowup, and electrical items that cause fires and electrocute people, and plumbing that emits gas fumes and unsanitary conditions and many other conditions that can cause death and destruction. People have to DIY follow safety rules, get permits, inspections and follow all codes regardless of the information received. That is a given.


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## daveb1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Was $600 your lowest quote or only quote?What kind of price might you get from a plumber at your buddy's work place?


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## the_man (Aug 14, 2010)

personally, 600 doesn't sound all that bad. 100-150 in materials, permit, inspection, 2-3 hours for install. it's not like its just 10 feet of pipe the guy would have to put in. if you're not sure if its a good price, get a few more estimates. is your friend going to pull the proper permit? if he does this for a living, all i'd think he would need is a parts list.


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

Is this gas line in service? It kind of looks like it's going to a boiler in the picture?

If it is, I'd suggest you take the time to calculate the pipes capacity and make sure that the incoming lead can handle the additional draw.
For example - 
_Say that line is about 25' of 3/4" the capacity is about 130 CFH or 130,000btu/h.
Your boiler may require upwards of 120,000 btu/hr. 
Your washing machine may be 22,000 btu/hr totaling around 140,000 btu/h.
_ 
Here's a good calculator that may help - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/natural-gas-pipe-calculator-d_1042.html

The data plates on the appliances will specify a BTU rating.

Other than that, it's really not to hard to splice in a tee and a shutoff valve & run the lines over.

As far as leak checking and pressure testing, I'd recommend at very least, building a home-made manometer. Here is a simple how-to. I would size it up to accomodate 14" on each side, so probably about a 30" board. 

Here is a guide on how to leak test your line - guide
*1 inch water column = 2.491 mbar @ 39.2'F 

You can go one step further and pressure check with the appliance running. You'd need an in-line tee (temporarily) installed at the dryer. Should probably maintain a minimum 7" w.c. (read 7" up on one side, 7" down on the other).

Of course, this goes along with the disclaimer that you should always have a licensed plumber, inspections, permits... for gas work.... :wink:

Let me know if any of this is unclear.


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

_"As far as leak checking and pressure testing, I'd recommend at very least, building a home-made manometer."_

I don't think so, at least not in my house.


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

bob22 said:


> _"As far as leak checking and pressure testing, I'd recommend at very least, building a home-made manometer."_
> 
> I don't think so, at least not in my house.


bob22, are you aware of the functionality of a slack tube manometer? Have you ever used one?


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

I had a plumber at my house last week helping with a clogged tub and I had him give me a price estimate at that time. So yes, that has been my only quote.


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

Nick DIY said:


> Is this gas line in service? It kind of looks like it's going to a boiler in the picture?


The line is in service. Above the garage is a 1 bedroom mother-in-law unit. So the line is providing gas to the water heater and gas range. Directly above the line is the bathroom and through the wall is the kitchen where the range and water heater are.


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

the_man said:


> personally, 600 doesn't sound all that bad. 100-150 in materials, permit, inspection, 2-3 hours for install. it's not like its just 10 feet of pipe the guy would have to put in. if you're not sure if its a good price, get a few more estimates. is your friend going to pull the proper permit? if he does this for a living, all i'd think he would need is a parts list.


Well, the plumber just looked a his binder for a second and said it would be about $600 for parts and labor. So, I don't know if that included a permit and inspection fees, etc. Its almost like he just pulled a random number, but I don't know?


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

mxingislife said:


> The line is in service. Above the garage is a 1 bedroom mother-in-law unit. So the line is providing gas to the water heater and gas range. Directly above the line is the bathroom and through the wall is the kitchen where the range and water heater are.


I'd definitely recommend calculating BTU's then. You could be in a whole lot of trouble if your mom-in-law finds out the hard way that her water heater doesn't operate while you're drying your clothes :laughing:

In all seriousness, it could be much worse than that. Low gas pressure could cause incomplete combustion and other safety issues.


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## mxingislife (Oct 27, 2010)

Nick DIY said:


> I'd definitely recommend calculating BTU's then. You could be in a whole lot of trouble if your mom-in-law finds out the hard way that her water heater doesn't operate while you're drying your clothes :laughing:
> 
> In all seriousness, it could be much worse than that. Low gas pressure could cause incomplete combustion and other safety issues.


 
Good call :yes: :wink:


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## liquidplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

If the job is done properly $600 is a very reasonable price


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

Have a Plumber look at it and give an estimate. the Load on that line may be too much for the line to handle is a major problem. But I would also be interested in what the Ward flex Pipe right near where you aree going to is supplying It may be a better option for you.

Also are you sure it is gas? and is that a half inch opening? is so if that is a long run it will not work anyway

And as always when it comes to gas Just remember to always have a Pro do it. Is it Better to pay more now or buy a coffin later


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## bob22 (May 28, 2008)

Nick DIY said:


> bob22, are you aware of the functionality of a slack tube manometer? Have you ever used one?


I have used a fluid manometer before but not a slack tube manometer. For something as important as to whether or not there is a gas leak, I'd prefer not to use something like the professor rigged up on Gilligan's island; even if it was accurate, how would you calibrate it so you knew how much pressure difference it was registering?


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

mxingislife said:


> broox, I understand what you mean. I do have some knowledge of gas lines and I do know that it is not anything to mess around with. I don't need anyone to explain to me how to cut, ream and thread pipe. I was more looking for answers/ideas of ways to help with a nice clean install or just a little advice. I have a friend who works for a local plumbing/mechanical shop and he installs, moves and works with gas lines everyday and he will be helping with this job. I was just looking to get other peoples input on the topic. Thanks.


What exactly do cutting, reaming and threading pipe have to do with knowing how to size, install and test gas service?

I'd bet that more than 80% of diy posters, posting about gas piping, have a friend that is "works for a plumbing/mechanical shop" and is more than happy to donate their time :laughing:

Brooks, thanks for the spelling lesson.

It does not make the advice given any less irresponsible to advise the OP to get a permit and have it inspected. Again, I'll bet 95% of them are going to do no such thing.

Think long and hard here gentlemen. Is giving advice to unskilled, untrained individuals on a project that has the potential to KILL people a good idea or are you just stroking your own ego's?


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Ansel said:


> yes i see your plane here you put your gas pip plastic or metal pipe and go from the earth way not from roof OK then here your cost minimize and not looking bad
> mlm lead system pro


Whaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????:huh::huh::huh:


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

bob22 said:


> I have used a fluid manometer before but not a slack tube manometer. For something as important as to whether or not there is a gas leak, I'd prefer not to use something like the professor rigged up on Gilligan's island; even if it was accurate, how would you calibrate it so you knew how much pressure difference it was registering?


bob22,
That's the thing about a U-tube manometer. They're not complicated devices. Simply 1/4" flexible tube filled with water. Measurement is in "inches water column" - or simply, how far "in inches" the water is pushed from starting point. 
They don't lie and don't need calibrated (other than if you have water loss in the tube). If you can measure inches on a ruler, than you can use one of these devices. We're not talking about super accurate readings here, they're all nominal and forgiving. 

The one spot that you could mess up would be your connection from the gas line to the water tube. If you can't handle that, then you obviously shouldn't be dabbling in pipe fitting anyway.

There's 2 simple tests that he should do here -
1) Pressurize and turn off gas, checking the manometer some time later for any change (a drop would indicate a leak)(usually done incrementally)
2) Pressure test at appliance with all appliances operating. The water should be pushed down at least 7" on the inlet side(from starting point) and up 7" on the outlet side.

Finalize your test by removing test apparatus, reinstall appliance supply and check connections with leak detecting solution - aka. "Mr. Bubbles" :wink:

Look, obviously this is a job best left to a pro, but some people will DIY no matter what anybody else says(like myself). I make sure I'm informed and doing everything I can to make sure that I'm doing it right. That's why I'm here  I'm simply giving the OP the knowledge of what he needs to be concerned about and if he decides it's beyond his DIY capabilities, then he'll hire a pro. If he decides to do it anyway, at least he'll have the tools to do it properly.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

So the Gas Leak Detectors I have were a waste of money? I could have just trusted all those lives of every house I worked on to a home made device... Yes your theory works but, when he connects to that line and runs it 30 feet in black steel and has a leak at the first connection and realizes that he has to take all of those pipes apart... you think the average HO will do that or just slap some dope on that leak? 

I think that before a HO messes with gas he should have to go to all of hi neighbors and have them sign the following statement

I own my house and I want to do gas work. I have no formal training but with the knowledge I have gained from the internet I feel that I can do this work. I understand that a Gas fitter i most states must complete 4 years of apprentice and 2 years of journeymen to test for thier masters but, I should not need to do that because I own my house. My plan at this time is to tap into the old line that is in the basement and capped off for some reason and run black steel (even though industry standard is Ward flex or trac pipe) because that is all that Home Depot sells and run it over to (Insert appliance here). I do not know anything about sizing the pipe to the correct length so I will just be using 1/2 inch because it is smaller and lighter and I think it will be easier to hide. I need you to sign this releasing me from any of the following situations, but dont worry... I was read a lot on the internet.
1- Gas Leak
2- Carbon monoxide
3- Explosion
4- Gas contamination that could lead to eventual appliance failure that could result in any of the above.

I understand that all of these can affect not only my house but my Neighbors and their neighbors and even their neighbors and in the event of death everyone that knew them.... BUT as I said I learned on the internet and the 18 year old at Home Depot told me what I needed


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## NHMaster (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes Doc, this is the lunacy that is the internet. I wonder if I can find a DIY site for doing my own surgery? :whistling2:


U tube manometers: Very accurate but not particularly practical, though before modern leak detection devices and really accurate gauges, it was all we had. A manometer will indeed indicate a leak in the line but there is more to this project than installing the gas line.

I understand that folks want to save money. I understand that quite a few are very mechanically inclined. I even understand that some may indeed be able to do the work to code and do a good job, but, just because someone says they have the talent, does not necessarily mean that they do. That's why we test and license gas technicians. One mans opinions of his abilities can often be quite different than the actual requirements.


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

Docwhitley said:


> So the Gas Leak Detectors I have were a waste of money? I could have just trusted all those lives of every house I worked on to a home made device...


Docwhitely,
Please advice how your testing procedure differs and how your equipment makes it a more effective test.
_
Maybe it will convince OP and others of the necessity of hiring a pro on a job like this._

OP, if you speculate that you may do as docwhitely said if you find a leak and ignore it(or try to fix it improperly, then obviously you really should not attempt this job. So please do take this into consideration. There is definitely the possibility that you may need to tear down all of your hard work and start over if your connections are not perfect the first time. 

Sidenote: There are many reasons of why to buy a quality manometer (like a Dwyer) such as integrated shut off valves & magnet hanger, over pressure safety traps, ease of adjustment/calibration & portability, professional appearance. But, basic functionality is the same.


*Just to re-cap:
**I do agree with all of the posters that state that this is a job that should be left to a professional. Think long and hard about all of the information that you've been given and if you decide to ignore all of the valid warnings, at least make sure that you take all of the necessary precautions and complete all of the necessary testing. There's a good reason that legally these jobs must be completed by a licensed professional. 

*Personally, I'm just not naive enough to think that if somebody gets it in their head that they're going to do something, that they're going to listen to a simple "You shouldn't do it, because we said so". Maybe, with the right information, they will think - "Wow, there's a lot more to this than I thought, I'd better get a pro" :thumbsup:


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

NHMaster said:


> Yes Doc, this is the lunacy that is the INTERNET. I wonder if I can find a DIY site for doing my own surgery? :whistling2:
> 
> 
> U tube manometers: Very accurate but not particularly practical, though before modern leak detection devices and really accurate gauges, it was all we had. A manometer will indeed indicate a leak in the line but there is more to this project than installing the gas line.
> ...


Come on NHMaster Surgery no problem Just clean the area with alcohol, put stick in mouth, take knife and cut skin to open body to where it's needed, repair or take out body part, take sewing needle and stitch closed(ask wife for help here) clean blood up around cut and bandage, OH I forgot the Whiskey, Darn it. Who needs the INTERNET???


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## Work4living (Nov 28, 2010)

:no:Look, I agree with NH, & DOC.....Well for the most part. I agree with the DIY'r also. Lets recap all of this to a simple statement. 

This is a skilled trade, it is not nailling boards, or hanging curtains. 

It is funny how things go so far off topic....You digressed from get a professional to what type of testing device should be used.

This is one fact I know to heart. If you cant hire a pro, how did you ever afford your house in the first place?

ASK THREE PLUMBERS AN OPINION YOU WILL GET THREE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO IT! You will eventually accomplish the same goal, just through different methods. :no:

You say you have a friend that does gas piping who will help you. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU NEED OUR ADVICE FOR!!!! Anyone licensed does not want the "liability of your inability" on their conscience.


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## Docwhitley (Jul 19, 2010)

I use a Gas meter that is designed and calibrated to detect any gas or Carbon monoxide in the air. My machine was close to a grand but I have a technician that has one that was $200 that seems to be extremely accurate but it only detects gas. Mine is so accurate that is there is any gas left over from when the pipe was open then you will need to air it out before testing. Precautions I take are
The nose test
My gas meter
bubbles
then the gas meter
followed by a lighter
I do these on all Connections

Now I will also say to all HO that if you are planning on running a line make sure you look at what you are really planning to do and make sure it is possible. Gas is dangerous and in no way would I recommend someone attempting it with out proper knowledge. You can Die! I just watched Renovation Realities last night and the way the girl was determining if gas was coming out of the pipe was by holding it under her nose and she said "Well I only smell a little gas so it should be Ok for tonight!" I wanted to scream at her!!!! I am a Plumber and I have done this for years and I walk away from jobs if they want Black steel gas lines. It is too much of a Pain in the Butt!


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## Sprayboy (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, you have to remember that house gas service is low pressure (5lbs or so) and you don't need schedule 40 pipe to carry it. You can go the Ace hardware and get a pipe-thread to garden hose fitting and 50' of polypropelyne hose. Use red if possible. Do not use rubber unless you are going to sell the house soon because natural gas will decompose rubber. The hose won't weigh much so you can support it with drive rings. An added benefit will be the ability to decouple and put a nozzle on it. This makes one hell of a neat charcoal starter for the BBQ! :jester:


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

broox said:


> When I ran my gas line in my basement, Wherever I needed a coupling I used a tee with a nipple and cap, so in the future I had places to tie into


I was checking old threads and stumbled on this one. Thats a good tip about using a tee in place of a coupling.

I cut in a tee into my 1" main for a gas grill run. We put one extra 1 x 1 x 1/2 tee for a possible future stove in basement.

Wish I would of put one more because now I'm considering a Reverberay tube heater for the garage.


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## Larryh86GT (Feb 2, 2013)

Whoa - I didn't realize how old this was. :laughing:


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## Ghostmaker (Mar 2, 2013)

I would also like to remind you that after you give this great gas line advise and he burns his house down you can also end up in court.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Ghostmaker said:


> I would also like to remind you that after you give this great gas line advise and he burns his house down you can also end up in court.


Who are you reminding??

There is no special science/tools/training to threading already threaded black pipe into fittings and being leak-free. 

A couple pair of pliers, some pipe dope and some good duct tape is all you need. :laughing::laughing:

I have never seen a news story on a homeowner ACCIDENTALLY blowing their home up because they were extending a gas run.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Dude my dad has an awesome set of tools!!!!


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## COLDIRON (Mar 15, 2009)

Ghostmaker said:


> I would also like to remind you that after you give this great gas line advise and he burns his house down you can also end up in court.


I get sick and tired of this court stuff, every stinking day someone mentions lawsuits I wish everybody would just take responsibly for their own actions. Look Ghost this is a DIY site people come here 
looking for help people give advice they don't have to listen or do what is advised.

So don't blame any body for anything here. I didn't go to the house and put the gas lines in.

Lawsuits Lawsuits more people need to be taken out back.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

This is off topic, but you may want to address the leaks you appear to have in your plumbing system, building envelope or both before doing this project. I see stains on the ceiling, on the foundation walls, etc. etc. 

As far as working with gas goes, it is good to have training and experience in doing so. I have a lot, having worked in a refinery for a few years, but I am not *licensed *to work with it. Will that stop me from working on my own lines? Frankly NO, because I don't trust other people to work on my gas lines. There are just too many hacks, and people on drugs out there today to trust them with something explosive, volatile, or deadly.


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