# Moving washer/ dryer from 1st to 2nd floor



## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Has anyone completed a project like this? 

I'm planning on moving them almost directly above there existing location into a linen closet on the 2nd floor. I have a pretty good handle on how to move the electrical, however I'm a bit confused on what to do about the vent. Can I vent it out the through the roof or would it be best to route it accross the cieling joists through the vinyl siding? Many thanks for any imput.


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## Double A (Sep 10, 2006)

Where is the vent for your washer now? If you're moving upstairs almost directly over the old location, it should be nearby. 

Why not just reuse the existing drain and vent for it?


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Double A said:


> Where is the vent for your washer now? If you're moving upstairs almost directly over the old location, it should be nearby.
> 
> Why not just reuse the existing drain and vent for it?


 
It currently vents down and through the main floor joists (crawspace) and outside about a foot off the ground. My first thought was to try an reuse the existing path, however this just isn't possible as I would have to add a lot of 4" pipe and cross too many 2nd floor joists. 

I do plan to tap into the existing plumbing (water and drain) and move the electrical up as well. The location is upstairs is overlapping the current 1st floor location by about 25%. The electrical can be snaked around and I plan to use some of that flexible woven reinforce tubing for the water and drain. Its this 4" pipe which is in the way


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

The shortest run for the vent is advisable.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

sebastien1 said:


> Has anyone completed a project like this?
> I'm planning on moving them almost directly above there existing location into a linen closet on the 2nd floor. I have a pretty good handle on how to move the electrical, however I'm a bit confused on what to do about the vent. Can I vent it out the through the roof or would it be best to route it accross the cieling joists through the vinyl siding? Many thanks for any imput.


Run the vent out the side of your house...across the space between ceiling joists...through the vinyl siding. Make sure that you use a 'hood' style vent cover and seal it up weather tight.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

AtlanticWBConst. said:


> Run the vent out the side of your house...across the space between ceiling joists...through the vinyl siding. Make sure that you use a 'hood' style vent cover and seal it up weather tight.


 
Many thanks; this is the answer I was looking for...


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Something I was just made aware of: 

Put a drain on the washer drip pan that leads outside using pvc... Whats the best way to get this accomplished? Couldn't I splice this into the main drain? Also this drain from the drip pan should probably be large enough to keep up with a lot of water which may gush out...right?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

sebastien1 said:


> Something I was just made aware of:
> 
> Put a drain on the washer drip pan that leads outside using pvc... Whats the best way to get this accomplished? Couldn't I splice this into the main drain? Also this drain from the drip pan should probably be large enough to keep up with a lot of water which may gush out...right?


I'm not a plumber, but I am familiar with what you are writing about. I definitely agree about the drain pan installation. 
The standard installations I have always seen are (I believe a - 1/2"?) line that leads to the drain line. It is positioned off to one side of the drain pan.


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## Double A (Sep 10, 2006)

I saw washer and vent and was thinking plumbing vent, not dryer vent. Sorry.

A pan will catch leaks and spills. Use a 1" i.d. drain at a minimum. 

A burst hose will still most likely flood the house and take the ceiling down below. The only way to prevent this is to put the entire room in a 'receptor' like for a shower, with a membrane in the walls to deflect the water down and to a floor draim. This drain will require a trap primer under most model codes and should be 2" minimum.

Replacing your hoses often can help prevent this to a great degree. I would also recommend an automatic valve on the washer box that only allows water flow with the machine is running. This can help with an unattended burst hose situation. 

I would also put a moisture alarm in the pan if you go that way, or on the floor at a minimum.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

A burst hose will still most likely flood the house and take the ceiling down below. The only way to prevent this is to put the entire room in a 'receptor' like for a shower, with a membrane in the walls to deflect the water down and to a floor draim. This drain will require a trap primer under most model codes and should be 2" minimum.

Replacing your hoses often can help prevent this to a great degree. I would also recommend an automatic valve on the washer box that only allows water flow with the machine is running. This can help with an unattended burst hose situation. 

Lots to think about here... I plan on doing this correctly the first time so I certainly appreciate all the feedback... What is a "trap primer"? Also how would this membrane work with the door accessing the washer/dryer room? I picturing a big rubber box that surrounds the washer...?


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

Double A said:


> I would also recommend an automatic valve on the washer box that only allows water flow with the machine is running. This can help with an unattended burst hose situation.
> I would also put a moisture alarm in the pan if you go that way, or on the floor at a minimum.


Good points. Yes, these should be standard components on a 2nd floor washer...in addition to the drain pan and drain line.


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## Double A (Sep 10, 2006)

sebastian, this room would be built, except for the door, much like a custom shower stall. If a hose burst, the idea would be to limit the water damage to the wall board or plaster in the room. Its not an inexpensive room to build.

The pan idea can be worked with just fine, but understand there is a bit of risk involved with it. Its just not meant to catch all the water from a burst hose. Using the other components, like the auto-shut off, the moisture alarm, and changing out the hoses will be the most economical way to go with good coverage for problems, but not the best. 

Best you can do is to build this room like a giant shower stall. A regular door, even a hollow core would be find as it will take water spraying on it directly for a period of time, but regular drywall with nothing behind it will not. 

A trap primer is a device that puts a small amount of water into the drain in the floor. It does this to recharge the water seal. If it didn't, the water would dry up and the room would smell of flatulance and allow sewer gasses into the home. This device keeps the seal 'primed' all the time, automatically.

The rubber membrane would be under your drywall. The point would not for it to be completely waterproof, but to deflect the water down to the floor to go out the drain if the dry wall material failed in case of a burst hose. You would not see it in the finished room.










You can see the web page for this roll-in shower receptor here.

This is a bit small, but a faux marble fabrcator in your area can make one large enough for your needs.

This is what a regualr "washer pan" looks like.









If the water doesn't come straight down on this pan, at a slow enough rate for the small drain to handle it, its useless at best. A sheet metal shop can make you a larger one that will work better than these things. 

GL


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

The washer hoses with the stainless steel outer braid are almost a "must" for washers installed over finished spaces. They are superior hoses, but they cost about 50 bucks for a pair. Cheap insurance, but still no guarantee.


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

stainless braided water supply lines and metal vent hose/duct.


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## redline (Mar 5, 2006)

Is this a gas or electric dryer?


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

DoubleA/ GL- Many thanks for you're very thourough explaination! 

I should have signed-up with a forum like this years ago... Everyone is really contributing great information which, otherwise, would have taken me several trips to Menards to get a fraction of what I got here. Thanks again everyone.

I think I'll be turning this space into a shower tub... 

Redline- I have an electric dryer. Which brings up a question; I plan to reuse the existing 220 line however I doubt it will reach its new location. I assume this wire/s can be spliced in a junction box..?


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

sebastien1 said:


> Redline- I have an electric dryer. Which brings up a question; I plan to reuse the existing 220 line however I doubt it will reach its new location. I assume this wire/s can be spliced in a junction box..?


I'd answer you, but it seems you only want Redline to answer that portion of your question.

He will likely tell you that you can splice it in a juction box, but only if you have a 4 wire cable. The old 3 wire dryer cables are currently non-conforming, and you may not extend it to reuse it for use with your dryer in a new location.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

I haven't really brought this up; but I plan to extend the existing H/C water and drain by using that "neoprene woven rienforced tubing". Does anyone see a problem with this? I would rather use CPVC but without tearing out drywall in rooms I don't want destroy, this is really not feasible.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> I'd answer you, but it seems you only want Redline to answer that portion of your question.
> 
> He will likely tell you that you can splice it in a juction box, but only if you have a 4 wire cable. The old 3 wire dryer cables are currently non-conforming, and you may not extend it to reuse it for use with your dryer in a new location.


Not at all... the thought just carried into that paragraph... Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I living a newer home built 4 years ago. Do you think they used 4-wire cable?


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

sebastien1 said:


> I living a newer home built 4 years ago. Do you think they used 4-wire cable?


You're probably okay, then.


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## Double A (Sep 10, 2006)

I would use only code approved materials for this project. 

I strongly dislike any solvent welded water lines in a house. The potential for problems is too great. 

What are you your current water lines made of?

As for the drain on the washer, you should plumb them out of cast iron, PVC or ABS. I don't know of any flexible materials that are approved for drains, but I've not really kept up with it. The problem with flexible materials is they can sag if used on the horizontal and cause problems.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

DoubleA-

Everything in the house is CPVC. I haven't had any issues with it. I even added about 50' of it when I installed the water softener. I can blame M/I homes for that one...

So about these flexible water lines and drain; I found a product called "PEX" which seems to be flexible CPVC. It's used in conjunction with "PUSH 'N GO" fittings which are compatable with copper pipe, cpvc and cross-linked Polyethylene (pex). (www.durapex.com) The guy at Menards seemed pretty sure of this combination. As for the drain there is a "white flexible hard rubber ribbed" pipe which can be solvent welded to standard pvc and used for drains. Again the Menards guy seemed sure of this too. Any thoughts? 

I guess I won't know exactly what I can do until I start tearing out drywall to assess the path I have to take.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm sure that many people have flooded their homes listening to "the guy at Menard's". There's a reason why they work there and aren't in the field plumbing homes.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> I'm sure that many people have flooded their homes listening to "the guy at Menard's". There's a reason why they work there and aren't in the field plumbing homes.


Just because someone works at Menards or any other hardware store doesn't mean they don't know anything about the department they work. You can tell very quickly who knows what thier talking about and who doesn't. I check my facts before I do anything, hense the reason I'm on this forum.


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## mdshunk (Dec 4, 2005)

sebastien1 said:


> You can tell very quickly who knows what thier talking about and who doesn't..


Uh-huh. Okay. I won't spoil your folly then. :laughing:


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, are you saying you want to dump the washer drain into a pan on the floor? and not into a normal washer box stand pipe setup?


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here, are you saying you want to dump the washer drain into a pan on the floor? and not into a normal washer box stand pipe setup?


No, not at all. I want the pan to be connected to the main drain in case of a line break. Read back a few posts to what DoubleA recommends, this is what I plan to do...


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

The pan can not be connect to the maindrain, not permitted by code, at least where I'm at, route it to the outside somewhere, now the idea thing to do is install a floor drain if no pan will be used, of course the floor will need to be water tight and slope to the drain.

Being a Plumber on the field and in construction, 2nd floor installations are never a problem, very seldom do hoses burst, so we do not install pan or floor drains, if the concern is that, get the braided stainless steel hoses, or replace the hoses once a year or every two years, the main one to worry about it the hot side, it will go long before the cold, but like I say, I seen hoses last for many years and had no problems.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> The pan can not be connect to the maindrain, not permitted by code, at least where I'm at, route it to the outside somewhere, now the idea thing to do is install a floor drain if no pan will be used, of course the floor will need to be water tight and slope to the drain.
> 
> Being a Plumber on the field and in construction, 2nd floor installations are never a problem, very seldom do hoses burst, so we do not install pan or floor drains, if the concern is that, get the braided stainless steel hoses, or replace the hoses once a year or every two years, the main one to worry about it the hot side, it will go long before the cold, but like I say, I seen hoses last for many years and had no problems.


Isn't this what the "trap primer" is for? (Running the pan into the main drain?) I would rather not do the pan drain; just a back-up precausion. About these braided lines; I noticed yesterday at the hardware store some braided lines which mechanically shut off if too much "high-velocity" water goes through. Probably what your referreing too...? 

What are your thoughts on my earlier post concerning "PEX" and "PUSH 'N GO" fittings? Many thanks for the info...


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Push n Go Fittings

If there the ones I'm thinging of, there code approved, put I would not plumb my house with them, if they are brass and have a plastic collar on the ends, then those are them, if there nothing like these I talked about then I think nothing of them.

Hoses, not the hoses that have shut offs on them but hoses alone.

The reason behind not connecting it to the maindrain is, well lets me just say this, you can use a pan and have it go to a drain, via a floor drain, laundry sink but it have to be an indirect connection, not directly connected to the drain, doing this eliminates the floor drain on 2nd floor and no primer is needed. 

Keep in mind, and I'm talking put yourself in the situation where a hose did burst, that water is going to be spraying everywhere, and trust me, it will not be directed towards just the pan. Will the pan accommodate all the water, No, the main reason to install a pan is so is the pump on the washer you will see the problem real soon.


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Push n Go Fittings
> 
> If there the ones I'm thinging of, there code approved, put I would not plumb my house with them, if they are brass and have a plastic collar on the ends, then those are them, if there nothing like these I talked about then I think nothing of them.
> 
> ...


Here's a link to the push 'n go fittings: http://www.durapex.com/PushNGo.asp

So for the pan drain I could just route it to my sump pit or even the drain where my water softener and water heater drain too..?

What are you saying here: _Will the pan accommodate all the water, No, the main reason to install a pan is so is the pump on the washer you will see the problem real soon....?_

Thanks again.


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## Ron The Plumber (Jun 7, 2006)

Those are not the brass ones. so i would say there not approved, I would not use them.

Yes you could just route it to a sump pit or any open drain, i.e floor drain, laundry sink.

The pan for a washer it there if the waher it's self leaks, it not for if the hoses burst.


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## 747 (Feb 11, 2005)

If you going to install a washer on the second floor make sure you install one of those electic water shut off values on it. Basically its a electric box mounted on the wall which will automatically turn the pressure for the hoses on and off. You would be suprised how much damage a wash machine hose can do on the second floor if it fails. It cheap backup. Well not real cheap i think they cost in the 200 range. If you install one the hoses will ONLY be under pressure when wash machine is in use.

http://www.watts.com/pro/divisions/watersafety_flowcontrol/learnabout/learnabout_intelliflow.asp


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## sebastien1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Well I finally got around to starting this project and a few things became a lot easier with the plumbing. It turns out that the H/C lines are coming up through the floor right next to my new W/D location! 

There is also the 1.5" PVC vent pipe which ties right into the old washer drain. I assume I can tap into this pipe for my new drain?

Also, my old washer hook-up has water hammers, which I plan to leave. If the plumbing system has water hammers somewhere in the lines do I need a second set on my new washer connection?

many thanks


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