# Armstrong Grand Illusions Laminate?



## wheatiesb1 (Feb 21, 2008)

Anyone have any experience installing/living with Armstrong Grand Illusions laminate? It appears to be a somewhat newer product. It truly has the look of hardwood. We're quite impressed. We are looking to put it in our kitchen/dining room. Any help would be much appreciated before we take the plunge!


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## mike costello (Nov 28, 2007)

yes I have


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## wheatiesb1 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm sorry -- didn't make myself very clear. Wanted your opinions of the product -- easy or hard to install, wearing/cleaning well, etc.


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## scheenstra (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike...Yes, you are...


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## mike costello (Nov 28, 2007)

Lol no problem at all.
Seems like a very decent product. I cannot attest as to the wear but after installing a few of them they seem to be a rugged well made floor


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2008)

I spoke with the Armstrong rep about it yesterday. He's sending me wear testing data. Basically they took an orbital sander with a buffer bad to it to simulate wear. It performed just as well as any other laminate they make. It's the same wear layer basically. He said the wear layer is the toughest they could make without sacrificing clarity. Only commercial grade laminates get much tougher. I believe he said it has the lock and fold locking system as well with makes for much easier installation.


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## AtlanticWBConst. (May 12, 2006)

I found this online: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flooring/msg020808289706.html


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

Grand illusions is a high shine product.
I would wonder if that would show more just like any other higher shine material.
Could that be mistaken by consumers as premature damage when there is slight surface abrasion?


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

That's what I'm thinking as well. I've done a bit of scratch and dent testing on our showroom samples. I don't see where it is any more prone to damage than any other laminate. I can more easily see any marring though due to the sheen.


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

We've sold a couple large jobs of it and never had any scratching issues so far.


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

yup...I agree. Large jobs with no complaints yet.
I will pay attention though.


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## lethalsvt (May 31, 2008)

I have researched thousands of laminates over the past 2 years and this is by far the most realistic looking laminate on the market (this and the same ones by Bruce Park Avenue). There is no comparison with pergo or any other. Why? It has the most realistic shine which is exactly like a true sanded and polished hardwood. It comes in individual planks, not sheets or strips. And finally and most important, it does not have the plasticky surface that every other laminate floor has (the only selection is one by Westwood...and that one doesnt have the shine).

As far as shine and scratches..well a well polished car or a well polished hardwood will obviously show scratches in direct sunlight. It is the nature or anything clean and pristine. You want something beautiful, you take care of it. Otherwise go with something cheap and worry free. And honestly, it has the same wear if not BETTER than everyone I've tested (westwood ac5 commercial and higher end shaw laminates seem to be the only better ive seen actually).

Dont let bad reviews fool you...this is leagues above any other laminate as far as realism. Wear is like any other floor...just be careful and take care of it like you should any floor that is experiencing high traffic.

Also, check for pricing online. Some store are selling this in my area for over $5 a square foot...and one nationally advertised company even sells it installed at $12 p/sf!!! Ive seen very competitive deals for between $3-$4 p/sf...and some places even pricebeat


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## BelievingRain (Jul 17, 2008)

We have recently had this installed and we are experiencing serious squeaking and snapping and movement of individual planks, because of the poor design of the locking system. We are failing to get any co-operation from the Armstrong company with regard to warranty. Would not recommend product at this point, despite how beautiful it is.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2008)

The locking system if fine on this product. I'm willing to bet whoever installed it tried to tap it in instead of using the locking system as it was intended and damaged the joints.


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## 26yrsinflooring (Jul 1, 2008)

We have sold a lot off our website, no complaints at all.


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## BelievingRain (Jul 17, 2008)

The installer did not tap in this product. It was laid correctly, however the ends do not lock in but rather sit on top of each other, This is where the problem is because it does not lock like other floors and it has allowed movement and almost a year later the problem is quite apparent. We have used other laminate products in the past and the locking mechanisms are far superior to this product. In talking with other installers it seems that it is a problem and their solution seems to be to have transition strips between every room, which makes it a major problem when you have an open concept home. If we had known that was going to be a problem, we would never have chosen this product.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

That would be their new Lock N' Fold system. I can see where it wouldn't lock as tight as a traditional end joint. It really isn't meant to. But at the same time, I've never had anyone else complain of any issues with it. As for transition strips, most laminates recommend this anyway in the doorways of large areas. I'll have to check the specs for this product to see what the specific recommendation on each run between strips is.


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## BelievingRain (Jul 17, 2008)

we need to find a solution to this problem. We are getting no help from
Armstrong Flooring in this regard. Any ideas?


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## BelievingRain (Jul 17, 2008)

*Disgusted*

Laid a complaint about this product with Carpet One and the Armstrong Company. We've been complaining since day one about movement and squeaking and snapping. Jumped through all the hoops and had a (so-called) independant inspector. All realize this is a problem but none will say so on paper. Everyone tried to blame the installation (typical), even at one point blamed the foam underlay (recomended by Carpet One) 
The final inspection by the industry expert doesn not find anything wrong with the installation. It was not laid too tight to walls, transition strips are not an issue, neither is any underlayment or uneveness. These exceeded industry standards. Humidity was at acceptable standards. The problem is the product. It was originally designed as a glue together system, which many installers still recomend., but to accomodate do-it-yourselfers, this is now marketed as a glueless system. It does not lock at the ends but just overlays. Because this is a thin plank style the locking is very loose, allowing movement, thus creating the snapping and popping whenever ends are stepped on. There is motion because of the foam underneath. This may not have been as evident if it had been laid directly onto a hard surface. The result has been that the whole locking system has become quite sloppy. It does not float properly as a locking floating floor should. We have had people walking across this floor getting their bare feet pinched because of this motion.
A final response has been that we are just too picky, this noise and motion is within acceptable industry standards(not sure who is setting these poor standards), and that because the problem is not visible, that
it is somehow acceptable. We have had laminate floors before and have never had this problem. This product is crap no matter how nice it may look. I am disgusted with Armstrong Flooring and their system of dealing with customer complaints. Next step is small claims court.


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## Jpetrowski (Mar 12, 2009)

*Armstron Grand Illusion*

This is the biggest mistake and loss of Money I have ever made. The floor chips, scratches, gouges, and pocks. 

I have received no support from Armstrong Ohio Valley Flooring or Monarch Carpet One where I bought the floor here in Brunswick, OH.

I was told by the distributor that the Wilsonart I have in my basement is pressure treated and more durable than my non pressure treated Grand Illusion flooring I had upstairs.

I even had an investigator that is contracted out by Ohio Valley Flooring rule in my favor stating that the floor is not holding up like a laminate floor should. With that said everyone involved is doing the traditional CYA.

If anyone can offer up suggestions to help me out it would be greatly appreciated. $6,500 is a lot to spend on a floor that nicks within 24 hours of installation.


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

It's funny. One thread starts off " this flooring is bad" and 50 other people chime in telling us their stories.
So that means the product is crap right?

Nope

It means that every product will have complaints and starting a thread on it will drive people in. Because it comes up on a search.
You will see alot of the people complaining about problems have under 10 posts.
hmmm...

Look, Armstrong makes a good product. I have had good results with them for over 12 years.
that's hundreds upon hundreds of jobs.

I really am sorry to hear about your problem floors...I really am.

My experience with the Distributers and Manufacturers of Armstrong is good.
If any of my customers went thru what you did, I would be able to do something about it.

I just want to make sure I add to this thread to balance it out.


People told me not to buy my Dodge Ram 1500 too.
They had bad experiences with them...

I am very happy after 3 years...and it was used...

to each their own.


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## mleon (Aug 5, 2009)

I installed 1400 square feet of Grand Illusions Brazilian Jatoba in the first floor of my home about three months ago. I used Silent Blue as my underlayment, installed over concrete. This was my first attempt at installing laminate, and I took my time and did it just as the Armstrong installation videos described. Additionally, I rented a Blastrac concrete grinder from Home Depot to smooth out high spots prior to installation, which I detected using a long level.

I read about other people experiencing "cracking" noises after installation, and my install is no exception. There is no noise, however, from the areas where I used glue in-between the planks - namely the kitchen and bathroom. I've found that over time, the cracking noise has reduced in the high traffic areas. I suspect and hope the noises will eventually disappear, because the floor "looks marvelous" (insert Billy Crystal's SNL character impersonation here).

The glossy surface adds much to the floor's appearance, and to the maintenance. Smudges on the floor stand out considerably when viewed at light reflecting angles. But when the floor is clean, it really is impressive. I'm considering the purchase of a "Scooba" robot cleaner for daily touch-up.

Despite the cracking noises and the high maintenance, I'm really happy with my floor.


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## Lisa9753 (Jan 5, 2008)

wheatiesb1 said:


> Anyone have any experience installing/living with Armstrong Grand Illusions laminate? It appears to be a somewhat newer product. It truly has the look of hardwood. We're quite impressed. We are looking to put it in our kitchen/dining room. Any help would be much appreciated before we take the plunge!


I am installing 1200 of the Grand Illusion flooring. I have never installed flooring before and after a few mistakes that have been corrected it is looking awesome. I have put down 54 of 93 boxes so far. It is absolutely beautiful. Make sure you get spacers to keep the 1/4" opening around all walls. Also make sure you lay the wood parallel with the light coming in the window. It would be a good idea to use a hammer with a tapping block to tighten the pieces after they lock together. Most will lock together with no problem, but I have needed to tighten a few so there is no gap.


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## anotherlisa (Sep 15, 2009)

About four months ago my hubby and I installed Armstrong Grand Illusions flooring on our main floor. About 2200 sqft of it. We were lucky in knowing a sales rep that was able to cut us a great deal on it. Total cost was around $8250.

Anywho, we've installed other types of laminate flooring, in our shop and in our basement. Just the inexpensive low quality stuff. Installation was dreadful (as it usually is with the cheap stuff).

Installing the Armstrong was super easy (as compared to the basement flooring). The quality of the product so far is fantastic. We have five kids, a cat, and a great dane. All of which would damage a real hardwood floor. The look is incredible.

HOWEVER,

Since we have so many children, and alot of spills and messes to clean up, the high maintenance factor of this flooring is a concern for me. We've tried everything under the sun to try to clean the smudges and smears. Knowing that we cannot use water, I went ahead and purchased Armstrong floor cleaner made specifically for their brand of flooring. Doesn't matter how I clean it, I get a light cover of cloudy film over my entire surface. The best way to try to get this clean is on my hands and knees and putting an incredible amount of elbow grease into it. I have to litterally buff this until no more film is visible. I've even purchased a floor polisher/buffer, but it doesn't do the trick either.

Anyone have this problem? Have any fail safe tricks for this? I know that you aren't supposed to use water, but since nothing else works I wonder how a floor steam cleaner would work?


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## Floorwizard (Dec 5, 2003)

a mirror finish floor is higher maintenance for sure.
a lam floor cleaner and terry cloth mop is all you should need.
I have tested with samples and found that nothing else is needed.


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## works2much (Apr 16, 2010)

Did you experience any musty odor with this product?


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## oneflbuck (Jan 11, 2011)

*grand illusions*

I just finished installing about 180 square feet of the grand illusions and had some problems with the lock and fold. After a little research a couple of installers in the Sarasota area told me that the material was really designed to be glued down. Prior to glueing it down the floor was making terrible squeeking sounds whenever you walked on it. I would rate the locking system as inferior but you cant beat the finish. Would not buy the product again.


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## cyanic (Nov 29, 2011)

Grand Illusion might be the best named product ever......

It looks great; however, this is now a week after installation and multiple inspections.... and it sounds awful! It constantly grinds and crunches. Inspectors all have found little to no installation issues. Subfloor- concrete was checked with marbles and other things before installation... and it is LOUD!!!

I would recommend anyone looking at this product to look elsewhere ... mainly because I am now horrified to have anyone over to hear my beautiful floor. 

BTW, all Armstrong will do is point fingers..... do not think they will stand up or even remotely help you when you call them. I have had Armstrong floors (that I loved) for the last decade.... never had an issue.... Now, you get scripted assistance and they will not do anything but blame everything else even when you can prove it is product. Also, I might add there are numerous complaints about the noise that they refuse to hear. There are blos post and videos littering the web. 

Armstrong was once a great American company who now has their "American" product made in China... and hides behind a FAKE warranty. 

O- and I have not only noise but production dents


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## aquilter (Oct 14, 2011)

google Armstrong Laminate Grand Illusions Noise Problems, and look at the multitude of videos.....


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## zip (Feb 10, 2012)

*Armstrong Cabrueva*

I have the same problems with Armstrong Cabrueva. CarpetOne installed it last year (2011). Was told the clicking & creaking would go away after a year but it's still here! Armstrong basically said nothing wrong with their product and now I'm left holding the bag. Also note that the product dings & chips easily (before I made the purchase I actually took the CarpetOne floor sample home and dropped a number of items on it and it performed superbly...go figure!...maybe the floor sample was of an older batch-better quality, ahh! the good old days).

I just want to know what is wrong so I can get if fixed but Armstrong and CarpetOne has so far refused to even help me identify the problem even though they acknowledge that the noise is there.

My main concern is the clicking & creaking. Short of replacing the floor has anyone successfully fixed the noise? Will gluing it down help? I just want a solution!! Has anybody managed to get Armstrong to even help them with the problem?

BelievingRain, did you actually sue Armstrong? What was the outcome? Sad to see the lack of responsibility in such a well known brand. This is how we enrich lawyers and clog our justice system. What a vicious cycle.

Thanks in advance.


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## aquilter (Oct 14, 2011)

The only thing I can think of, for anyone to do, is make a video of the noise, like the ones on YouTube, titled Armstrong Grand Illusions Laminate Noise Problems,,,and make sure you get the noise problem on video, and only talk about the noise problem, and in your description of the video, state how you have tried to handle the problem....THEN, get on FaceBook, go to the Armstrong Flooring page, and post a comment about your floor problems. And, do that every week, to keep it on top and talked about. I have been doing this since 7/21/2011, and I got results.,,,,sort of.....long story. Armstrong revised thier warranty, to not cover noise problems. I had 2 previous laminates, from Armstrong, and neither one made the noise that Grand Illusions made. I am now going to tile my floor with porcelain tile, because I will never have lock & fold installation again, as the ends don't lock down, and you can see them move when you step on the floor, and that is what I am assuming snaps back.. I also have 1, 3 inch break and a chip, in my newest laminate, that will soon be replaced.... good luck. If you really want to be "heard", go the the manufacturer blogs and FaceBook, and post post post.....


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## aaron_david (Oct 29, 2011)

poppameth said:


> The locking system if fine on this product. I'm willing to bet whoever installed it tried to tap it in instead of using the locking system as it was intended and damaged the joints.


Agreed. The locking system is perfect and I know a few people that have had this collection down for at least a couple of years with none of those problems that were mentioned. That being said, even though Armstrong backs this line with a 30 year warranty, installation is very key. While it's true that laminate floors are far more DIY-friendly than hardwood or tile, installation guides should still be read carefully and followed to a tee.

Hope this was helpful and thank you for your comment, poppameth.


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## aquilter (Oct 14, 2011)

We had 2 Armstrong certified inspectors here, and 2 independent inspectors here for these laminates that use lock&fold, (over 1K in inspection costs) and no inspector said the installation was at fault. They blame me, because I do not like the noise,:thumbdown::thumbdown: and for the second laminate, I ordered based specifically because the book, the sample board, and the website all stated that it used the Armalock system. I was told by my installer that Armstrong was not happy with my videos, and they said to get my flooring replaced pronto, :thumbsup: so I ordered in August 2011, it was installed, then we found that the locking system was lock&fold,(on Armstrong Exotics Afzelia) which my installer should have recognized, :confused1: and why he didn't I will never know. :wallbash: Anyway, I did not get what I ordered, because Armalock was discontinued in April 2011, and I specifically, in an email, asked my installer to verify it was Armalock, which he did not do. :furious: A simple phone call would have alleviated many problems. Now, did my installer do sub-par installation on 2 laminates that used lock&fold, and the inspectors could not tell? I had 2 previous laminates on the same floor, that never made a sound, and they were not lock&fold. There have been 4 inspections on the laminate floors, and not a single one ever ever ever cited installer error. I only got this last Armstrong refunded, because I can prove, I did not get what I ordered, and I covered my bu**:cursing: by writing to my salesperson what I absolutely wanted, which the company no longer provides except from what we were told, it being available on the "cheapest" line of laminate. I will not get another laminate using lock&fold, I am installing porcelain tile. So, is it impossible for 4 inspectors to see subpar installation? 4 Inspectors??????????????:detective: I also found, and downloaded Armstrong produced videos of the difference between Armalock and Lock&Fold, which again, proved I did not get what I ordered. 

A lot of people may be very happy with the lock&fold, and if they never had laminate, and don't know that it is not supposed to snap crackle pop when walked on, they will never complain. But, I don't want a noisy floor, and there are many many more of us that don't want that either. I have hardwood, I have carpet, and I have vinyl, in a large house and nothing but the laminate snaps and makes a sound like rice crisp cereal when walked on. 
Unacceptable.


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## abqwoody (Jan 23, 2013)

*Armstong laminate problems Not being resolved!*



zip said:


> I have the same problems with Armstrong Cabrueva. CarpetOne installed it last year (2011). Was told the clicking & creaking would go away after a year but it's still here! Armstrong basically said nothing wrong with their product and now I'm left holding the bag. Also note that the product dings & chips easily (before I made the purchase I actually took the CarpetOne floor sample home and dropped a number of items on it and it performed superbly...go figure!...maybe the floor sample was of an older batch-better quality, ahh! the good old days).
> 
> I just want to know what is wrong so I can get if fixed but Armstrong and CarpetOne has so far refused to even help me identify the problem even though they acknowledge that the noise is there.
> 
> ...



From a 20 year installer, I have come across this problem more than once with this product. Armstrong has only resolved one claim out of 10 that I have put in for several different customers.. It really all depends on the Rep that goes out to the job. They will look for every out that they can find not to cover their material. I have turned down numerous installs when the customer is set on using this product.. My only recommendation is to stay clear of any Armstrong products.. Quik Step Laminate!


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## Awoodfloorguy (Jul 6, 2012)

For the price of a laminate like this you could just get a real prefinished hardwood. Why get something that looks like wood, when you can get wood. Real wood can be refinished, recoated, looks better, adds more value, lasts much longer etc. I don't personally know about this product, so sorry I can not help on that. I do know Armstrong has good products. But, I thought I would offer some insight on another option to consider.


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