# Tape sonotubes together?



## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

The question would be, would a taped join withstand the force/weight of the concrete?
However, what's your area like? It may be that once you are down past to the top, disturbed, layers @ ~4' (?), the adhesion in the soil _might_ be enough to keep the bores intact and plumb. At 6' deep you'd probably best be thinking about rebar and mesh to maintain pier integrity. 

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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

ChuckTin said:


> The question would be, would a taped join withstand the force/weight of the concrete?
> However, what's your area like? It may be that once you are down past to the top, disturbed, layers @ ~4' (?), the adhesion in the soil _might_ be enough to keep the bores intact and plumb. At 6' deep you'd probably best be thinking about rebar and mesh to maintain pier integrity.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


I was wondering the same. I'm boring 12" holes and since a 12" sonotube is truly 11.5" there really isn't much room for things to move around. And yes I was going to put two pieces of rebar in each pier to re-enforce them.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

_If_ I was considering tape, it would be filament reinforced and even then I'd wrap the outside of the join with flashing and tie wire.

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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

RETALS said:


> I can't seem to find anyone around here that sells sonotubes in lengths greater than 48".


Have you called a concrete/masonry supply house? Just because the box stores don't stock it doesn't mean you can't get them locally. 

If the hole is 6' deep that doesn't mean the tube has to be.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

kwikfishron said:


> Have you called a concrete/masonry supply house? Just because the box stores don't stock it doesn't mean you can't get them locally.
> 
> If the hole is 6' deep that doesn't mean the tube has to be.


I guess thats true too. But its probably a lot easier if the tube can just lay on the bottom of the hole. I'll try a local concrete place. Thanks for the tip!


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

Actually it might be better if the tube was shorter than the hole. If the concrete is allowed to settle to its natural slump at the bottom of the hole and under the end of the Sonotube might give you the result of creating a footer under the tube.

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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

I've taped them together alot..... used duck tape.... never had a problem.


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I'd do it in a heartbeat if the taped joint was underground. Hell, I might not even tape it. Just set tube #1 on top of tube #2. 

**Not a structural engineering opinion.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

From inside the lower tube, screw about three cleats to the outside which extend above the joint and then lower the top half onto the cleated lower half.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

One layer of tape on the inside will inhibit any chance of a blow out at that joint.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Depending on your location, 6' seems awful deep. If the local stores only sell 48", maybe they are reflecting the local market and all that your area requires.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

lenaitch said:


> Depending on your location, 6' seems awful deep. If the local stores only sell 48", maybe they are reflecting the local market and all that your area requires.


I think his house is freshly backfilled so he wants to get back down to undisturbed soil. Probably not necessary for a deck but if that makes him feel better there's nothing wrong with it.


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

1st question: how are you going to bore these 6' deep 12" diameter holes? I'd be way more worried about that then taping the forms together.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

The reason for going to 6' is simply because 4 of the piers are within 2 feet of the house. So I'm assuming they'll be in undisturbed soil. If you look around my house (18 years old) all the sidewalks and even the driveway close to the house have sunk. 

Do you think 4' would be sufficient? I have someone bringing in a skid steer with an auger attachment.


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## red92s (Nov 14, 2012)

RETALS said:


> The reason for going to 6' is simply because 4 of the piers are within 2 feet of the house. So I'm assuming they'll be in undisturbed soil. If you look around my house (18 years old) all the sidewalks and even the driveway close to the house have sunk.
> 
> Do you think 4' would be sufficient? I have someone bringing in a skid steer with an auger attachment.


I was just wondering _how _you were going to do it. Skidsteer with an auger seems like a reasonable choice.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

Here's another question. I have really heavy clay soil. Should I add some gravel to the bottom of my pier holes for drainage or will they be ok without?


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

All the more reason to just use the 4 ft. sonotube, no stone needed.

Forgot to ask, where on the planet are you.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

Yes on the gravel, especially with clay. Were I in your environment I'd want as much drainage as I could get

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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

No on the gravel. I thought you wanted to place on undisturbed soil. Dropping loose gravel down defeats that purpose. The need for drainage is for areas that can freeze like under slabs on grade. 18 years? Go with 4'.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Have you made a utility line locate call? Very important before you dig.

Don't be like the D-7 Cat operator when ask that question. The usual quote: "OH HELL, I know where all those lines are" - those were his last words before burning to death.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

BIG Johnson said:


> No on the gravel. I thought you wanted to place on undisturbed soil. Dropping loose gravel down defeats that purpose. The need for drainage is for areas that can freeze like under slabs on grade. 18 years? Go with 4'.


Makes sense. I decided to split the difference. The holes against the house are 5' and the others are at 4'. Now I'm trying to decide if I should add rebar or not. 

On a side note, the holes fit like a glove. I think I can suspend the 4' tubes in the holes without even needing cleats. They're so snug I can't even backfill around them.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I wouldn't bother with the tubes with the exception of convenient elevation concerns and then only a short section would be needed.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

If I have a clean hole I only use a short piece of tube at the top where the concrete is exposed.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

kwikfishron said:


> If I have a clean hole I only use a short piece of tube at the top where the concrete is exposed.


Or frame it out using some 2 by 8 material. Only difference would be a square top instead of round.

Yes, add some rebars if available.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

Thanks everyone. What would be the appropriate size rebar to use for this application? I just happened to look while I was at Lowes the other day and the only thing I saw was #4. I assume that is what I should use?


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

RETALS said:


> Thanks everyone. What would be the appropriate size rebar to use for this application? I just happened to look while I was at Lowes the other day and the only thing I saw was #4. I assume that is what I should use?



I think Menards has 5/8" but I don't know your location so I don't know if you have one by you. You don't really need rebar so 1/2" is fine if you want to use it.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

You don't need rebar in that.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

Embed some anchor bolts so you can use these:


https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...445513168-c-8828.htm?tid=-3236753752049106079


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

So it seems to be a split decision between using and not using rebar. I think I would like to just for added reassurance, and also just to gain some experience. So if I just want to use two pieces in each sonotube, how do I get them to stand upright without pounding them into the soil? From my reading you do not want any metal contacting the earth. I see some illustrations having them bent into a J at the bottom which is fine, but without using more rebar and forming a cage I don't see how I would get them to remain upright.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Run/float them in after the pour.........

(Or use some tie wire and hang them off the top of any sono-tube.)

(EDIT You are correct that you ideally want rebar fully encased in concrete... but it is a deck with substantial piers.... drive them in the ground... those piers wwill outlast your grand children'e grandchildren and well beyond your deck.) But your principle is correct.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

More important you get the anchor post set than adding rebar.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

Canarywood1 said:


> More important you get the anchor post set than adding rebar.


Not sure I'm understanding what you mean by anchor post? Are you talking about the post saddles?


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## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I hate anchor bolts. I'd think pretty hard about drilling and epoxy anchors after the fact. I mean, for a few piers it probably doesn't matter. But you need to make damn sure they're in the right spot and square and . . .


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

NickTheGreat said:


> I hate anchor bolts. I'd think pretty hard about drilling and epoxy anchors after the fact. I mean, for a few piers it probably doesn't matter. But you need to make damn sure they're in the right spot and square and . . .


Well what I was going to do was put batter boards across the piers and basically "snap" a straight line in the wet cement. Shouldn't that be pretty accurate?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Cut the rebars about 4 inches short of the depth of the hole.
Place the concrete.
Drop the bars into the concrete and lower them about 2 inches below the top of form.
Strike off / flatten the top.
Done.


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## RETALS (Sep 27, 2016)

jlhaslip said:


> Cut the rebars about 4 inches short of the depth of the hole.
> Place the concrete.
> Drop the bars into the concrete and lower them about 2 inches below the top of form.
> Strike off / flatten the top.
> Done.


That seems simple enough. I assumed they would sink to the bottom? Or fall over?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Nope. They will go exactly where you direct them. Straight down is good. 
Vibrate/wiggle them slightly as they are being lowered to consolidate the concrete around them.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

RETALS said:


> Not sure I'm understanding what you mean by anchor post? Are you talking about the post saddles?


The very same.


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## BIG Johnson (Apr 9, 2017)

RETALS said:


> Well what I was going to do was put batter boards across the piers and basically "snap" a straight line in the wet cement. Shouldn't that be pretty accurate?



You're fine. They don't really have to be all that accurate. As long as they are in a straight line and not placed Willy nilly, your deck will look good. Do as you planned.


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