# Is this inexpensive porcelain-enameled steel tub okay to install?



## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Sounds a little risky to me if the user weighs-in at over 400 pounds but the only other suitable type would be cast iron. There is nothing wrong with steel tubs and they will never crack so as to leak but that doesn't mean you couldn't ping the surface and cause some finish to come off or with enough tweaking and heavy use the finish could crack but only at the surface.

Properly installed you should be okay. Properly installed means it may have to be set in a puddle of fresh cement.

There is a thread here now about a screwy distorted steel/porcelain tub so I would suggest you look closely at the one you buy BEFORE you try to install it.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

That over flow was at one time a two piece set up with a tapered washer and a nut, looks like someone tryed gluing it instead. Not so sure that's a good idea, the slip in type are looser so it can slide.
The over flow can be cut and a new top piece installed and coupling used to reconnect it.
It's the drain I'm worryed about, someone filled the hole around the trap with concrete. It should have been left open. There's about a 0 % chance the drains going to line up and with that concrete in the way there's no way to realign it or make it longer.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Okay, thanks so much for your time. If you think the porcelain-enameled steel tub should be fine if layed in a puddle of cement, I am just going to go ahead and do that. A cast iron tub is just not something I want to try to haul around right now and it seems like the next most functionally durable tub are steel tubs. I will look it over every which way before I install it to make sure nothing is wrong with it. It is pretty inexpensive and light, and as long as it will hold his weight and remain a functional tub without leaking... for at least 15 years... I will be happy. 

And in reply to joecaption, it at least makes me feel better that the overflow should be fine as long as I cut it, etc. But to fix the drain issue, should I just take a sledgehammer to the concrete around the drain? Or will that potentially damage some of the plumbing in the process? What would you do to align the drain and overflow properly with my set up?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'd used a rotery hammer not a sledge hammer. It's like a powered chisle.
If you do not have one Home Depot rents them. There farly expencive to buy one.
Concider getting a plumber to make these connections for you, if it leaks it's all got to come out again.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Thanks, I guess I'll have to go and rent one then. But I do want to try to make the plumbing connections myself, this stuff is just too interesting to me to not try. I'll let you guys know what happens when I get the tub. Oh, and BudCline had mentioned laying cement down under the steel tub when I set it in. Could you possibly tell me what cement/or mortar/or concrete I should buy to lay the tub in? And how much should I lay down? Is there a specific process for the Right Way to lay the tub in cement? Thanks


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

First of all amodoko, I am not warrantying a porcelain/steel tub for fifteen years against cracking or leaking when used by a person weighing in excess of four hundred pounds. This is a product you must satisfy yourself with and not depend on someone on an Internet forum to specify. Cast iron would be better.

I also said "properly installed" but it is not up to me to direct your installation, it is up to the tub manufacturer to tell you how to install the tub. If cement is one of the options then typically "mortar mix" is what is used. This all depends on how the tub-bottom is made. I would inquire of the manufacturer as to what type of payload this chosen tub is designed to handle.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Hi BudCline, I totally understand, I am taking a slight risk here and do realize this is an unusual situation to have someone weigh this amount and use the tub. We can't say for sure what will happen to the tub over time, and cast iron would be better. Although I am assuming the tub won't crack through, since I believe steel bends but won't crack, we can't say for sure what will happen over time since the weight of the individual is so high. 

And you are absolutely right about checking with the manufacturer on the installation instructions, I completely forgot about that. 

I'll let you know how it goes once I get the tub


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You are getting good advice so far---

One thought---take a look at the Americast--(American Standard)--It's a steel tub with a molded liner--

They are a good solid product and don't have the tin can sound of the ones without a liner---
As I recall they are a bit on the pricey side--


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Just picked up the tub, looks like this tub comes with a built in styrofoam pad under it. It says it must not be removed, otherwise the warranty is voided. I figure that if I lay the tub in mortar it would be better support, but at the same time the manufacturer should know what is best for their product. 

I tried contacting the manufacturer regarding this, since the user of the tub will weigh 425 pounds, but they haven't responded yet. That's the only reason I was considering laying down mortar instead of using the foam pad. 

But regardless, I feel much better about this steel tub than the last fiberglass tub. It seems pretty solid. 

So what do you think? Should I go with the manufacturer's instructions, or should I remove the pad and lay the tub in mortar? I'm assuming I should just leave the pad since it is easier and is recommended by the manufacturer, but I was just a tad concerned since the user will be so heavy and may cause the tub to bend, and eventually push down on the foam.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Just felt like uploading the rest of the instructions for kicks


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

There is a thread running about that--I read it just last night----

If it were me---I'd remove the foam and bed that thing into some masons mortar---

I could be wrong--but foam crushes with time and will fail to support the tub bottom---

Just me--I vote for --no foam--


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Ok, that's one vote for no foam! Oh, and I was looking at the Americast at Lowe's as well, the guy there had said that Americast was some steel composite that was weaker than steel. Is that correct. Regardless, I didn't buy it anyways since it WAS more expensive, but thought that was weird that the cheaper tub I bought was steel and Americast was just some composite.

Regardless, if I do have to lay the tub in masons mortar, what is the standard amount that people use to do this? I'm guessing maybe 5 gallons? I have no idea, just guessing.

If I didn't do mortar, would it be okay to maybe just place some 2x4's or something instead? Just because it will be less messy and easier to do.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I've installed a few Americast--It is a steel tub---bonded nicely to that heavy liner--

Now --your tub---No 2x4s---you want full coverage of the tub bottom---whatever the foam now covers--that's how thick and how wide and long----

Think---elephant walking on a sidewalk covered with and enameled sheet of steel kind of support.

That mortar is not messy----get a flat pan---like a restaurant bus tub (these are sold in the concrete section of the Depot) or something like that---add only enough water to the mix to make it just a bit wetter that sand castle sand---you have played in sand before?

You want it stuff enough to hold its shape--but soft enough that you can squish the tub into it--

Measure the size of that foam before you remove it---let's say it's 1 1/2" thick---

Lay a bed of mortar 1 3/4 to 2 inches deep and roughly the footprint of the tub bottom--

---you will need to nail a ledger to the back wall to support the back of the tub--

Install the tub---press the tub down til the back hits the ledger and the skirt bottoms out against the floor---do not step into the tub---that will compress the mud and leave a hollow--

Add a few screws with small washers to hold the tub to the studs---leave it alone until the mud is set--


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

I wouldn't do anything else until I talked to the tub's manufacturer about the foam compressing over time due to the weight of the tubs user. Let them answer this question for you. Once you remove the foam you void the warranty no matter what the claim may be so don't get in a hurry.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm with Bud on this one.
That type foam would cpmpress if you walked on it with high heals but with the steel and the surface area of a foot it's not going anywhere.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Okay, thanks everyone for their input. I had emailed the company I got the tub from yesterday and am still waiting for a response. I then called them today and had to leave a message with their technical support team. They said they would get back to me in 48 hours. So I guess I'll hold off on the mortar for now, but I will let you guys know what they say. You guys are awesome, I really appreciate the advice.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Just wanted to let everyone know that the company still hasn't gotten back to me, I am going to call them again on Monday...


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Makes you glad you gave them your money doesn't it?

Maybe one more email stating if you don't hear back from them by noon on Monday their product is going back to the store and you are headed for every Internet forum you can find to talk about it.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Hahaha, Bud you are hilarious! Yeah, it is kind of annoying they haven't gotten back to me. I am definitely calling them again tomorrow though, this is kind of ridiculous for a company to not respond to an email or my voicemail I left them. Hopefully I can get some answers tomorrow (they are closed on weekends).


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> (they are closed on weekends).


Weekends? Hell they are closed week days also it seems along with a lot of other companies that no longer answer a phone call and force you to get involved in a voice mail round-robin. It's irresponsible is what it is.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Absolutely, I agree with you. Hopefully I can get a hold of them again on Monday and get an answer. I believe I talked to them on Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, so they are definitely taking their sweet time... or they don't plan to return my messages.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Perhaps that's how they can sell tubs so cheaply-----No employees---


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Call this dirty pool if you want to, but I have been known to look up the CEO of a large company and then send him an email bypassing all of his fledglings and believe it or not THAT usually gets a pretty quick response from at least his secretary.


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Okay, I've given up trying to contact the company. They simply won't return my calls. I'm just going to install it with the foam pad, and I will put the 2x4 across the back wall for support (as the instructions say to do). Hopefully that will be enough to support the 425 pound user. I think it should be okay. Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it. 

PS. Bud Cline, I actually did look up the CEO of the company and was able to find him, but had no contact information on him. So I'm out of luck, or I'm bad at finding his contact info.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Good luck---I've snuck in the back door of companies using the phone---Most companies have several lines---say-555-2100

Start dialing up-555-2101 555-2102 and so on---you will end up at somebody's desk-


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

hahaha, that's actually pretty good thinking, I'll have to give that a try tomorrow!


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Good luck---I've snuck in the back door of companies using the phone---Most companies have several lines---say-555-2100
> 
> Start dialing up-555-2101 555-2102 and so on---you will end up at somebody's desk-


I've done that also. It works. Once you have the guys name then call a number that is upstream a digit or two and then ask for him by his first name as if you are a friend.

Good thinkin' Mike, haven't done that in years.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That saved my bacon more than once when trying to get a hold of someone when the factory was closed--


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## oldhouseguy (Sep 7, 2011)

i had an issue recently trying to get a vanity top and the many, many, many sales associates and delivery drivers just couldn't seem to make this happen, despite the fact that I had paid in full for it and was just waiting around for it.

One excuse after another, finally I just called the CEO of the company, and the guy could not have been a better customer service person. He was awesome, and truly apologetic. I wanted to yell and scream and complain, but he diffused my rage in about 30 seconds. A true pro.

They ended up delivering the vanity that day, and then called the next day and refunded the entire price of the vanity top in the hopes I would not hold it against them. (I never asked or expected this, I just wanted the vanity top)


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## amodoko (May 29, 2011)

Guess what guys... they finally called me back! I looked into the other methods you had mentioned to contact the company, but I couldn't find the CEO's number and since the only number I had was a 1-800 number I didn't think I could do the phone trick (or maybe I am wrong and didn't understand). But I kept on calling them leaving them messages about how I would need to return it if I didn't hear back

But anyways, I kind of got bad news. They say they test all their tubs up to 300 pounds, but would not recommend them being used for any weight above that. So they have no opinion on mortar, etc, for a bed for the tub. However, I am not going to return the tub, I have done too much work on the tub based on this tub's measurements (cutting overflow/drain to fit my tub, cutting out walls based on tub size, ledger installation, etc). And I'm assuming all steel tubs are probably rated at 300 pounds anyways. I still don't want to go and get a cast iron tub since that will be too heavy to install for me in that tight space (I am a one man team), and in addition, I feel with the weight of the cast iron tub and the weight of the 425 pound man would result in the floor possibly needing to be reinforced.

I still want to install this steel tub, but I should add reinforcement to it. I was thinking of doing this: Cutting wood and shaping it to fit the base of the tub and creating a rectangular shaped structure to go around the foam pad on all sides. I would cut the wood so that there would be a gap between it and the tub, and in that gap I would pack it with some foam padding I bought from Lowes to allow the tub some "give" with weight and to soften the way the wood feels to the tub. I attached two pics to show you what I mean. The first one is of the tub's foam pad, the second one explains more of what I want to do. 

I have talked to a few tub installers with my concerns before I got this call about the tub's weight load, and many of them said that a 425 pound man should be okay. So I'm assuming it will be okay. I don't think steel really cracks, but I know it can bend, which is why I want to install additional reinforcement. 

So what do you guys think? Is my plan for extra reinforcement using wood and foam padding good?


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