# Gas stoves could be banned in 2023



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Increasingly under fire as potential health hazards, gas stoves could be banned in 2023, top federal official says: ‘It’s a real possibility.’


The start of a federal process that could lead to more regulation of gas stoves is “a big step," advocates say.




www.chicagotribune.com


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

“And I think we ought to keep that possibility of a ban in mind, because it’s a powerful tool in our tool belt and it’s a real possibility here.” Tool in a tool belt??? What sort of political crap is that?

But this takes the proverbial cake. Think about it. "Studies also show that gas stoves emit the planet-warming greenhouse gas methane, even when the stoves are turned off. " Turned OFF????????????? Cow puck.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I agree with Chandler.
I don’t like any type of unvented combustion because no matter how slight, the products of combustion are in the air you are breathing. In a modern tight energy efficient house the problem is more exaggerated. I think a ban is going a bit too far, though. Live is a series of calculated risks.


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## Marq1 (May 31, 2021)

That's a big thing in CA all new homes are built without any gas hookups, all electric. 

It's not that the stoves cause pollution it's because parents don't make their kids go outside any more and they just play games. Probably should link stoves to obesity!


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

Not sure how restaurants could function without gas. Have you ever seen wok cooking in a Chinese restaurant? My wife would kill if you took away her gas cooktop.


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## SW Dweller (Jan 6, 2021)

Crock of BS. I have asthma and have since I was a young boy. Mine is triggered by mold in the air, 10-15 microns in diameter. So I Iive in a dry climate. The concept that higher levels of nitrogen will only effect children is BUNK. It will effect everyone. I have a gas stove and used it daily, I have a vent over it and it works best when I crack the window and turn on the vent. The concept of cooking with out a vent is beyond my comprehension. Yes I know there are homes where the vents do not go outside. I do not live in one. Nor will I ever live in one. Ya gotta be smarter than the problem


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Gas stoves are okay when used with a vented range hood.

Where most or all of the electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels - gas stove is a better option than electric because thermal power plants are extremely inefficient at converting heat to electricity.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Marq1 said:


> That's a big thing in CA all new homes are built without any gas hookups, all electric.
> 
> It's not that the stoves cause pollution it's because parents don't make their kids go outside any more and they just play games. Probably should link stoves to obesity!


Yet california is reliant on natural gas for electricity generation.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

It's just a safety spin to thwart the argument of "I still need gas to my house to cook!".


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

First off, I prefer cooking with gas than electric. Gas heats faster than electric and there is much better control of the heat which is important with some recipies. Additionally, if there is a power outage, a gas stove will still functional.

That being said, something in this story smells funny and it is not the gas.

"Commissioner Richard Trumka" is the son of Richard L. Trumka who, prior to his demise was the head of the AFL-CIO and was nominated to the CPSC by Biden in 2021.

Biden wants to eliminate the use of fossil fuels and unions are among the largest financial supporters of the DNC. 

All of a sudden the son of one of the largest unions in America decides a product which has been around for some 200 years is a hazard and should be banned.

I do not believe in coincidences.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

It sounds more like connections to hood fans so they run automatically for the not to bright that can't figure out how to turn one on.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

user_12345a said:


> Yet california is reliant on natural gas for electricity generation.


Shhhh....the lemmings don't know that.


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## runagate (6 mo ago)

WHY ? it is all natural product


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

runagate said:


> WHY ? it is all natural product


Many natural things are poisons.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

user_12345a said:


> Yet california is reliant on natural gas for electricity generation.


But, do people with children live in the plants?

I'm neither here nor there with its effect on climate. It scares me due to CO risk & fire. Just me.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Nik333 said:


> But, do people with children live in the plants?
> 
> I'm neither here nor there with its effect on climate. It scares me due to CO risk & fire. Just me.


Gas stoves are safe when they correctly installed and vented with a range hood and used correctly.
Electric stoves can actually start fires too - there is a fire risk with any stove.

Electric coil ranges carry an extra burn risk because they can be hot but not be red.
Years ago I badly burned a finger, turning on the wrong element and then touching it - big blister.

My priority is not wasting fossil fuel energy resources because they are depleting.
If the thermal power plants used are natural gas, compared to cooking directly with a gas stove, the electric stove needs  up to double the amount of natural gas. Your typical thermal power plant is only about 30% efficient where 70% of the energy of the fuel is wasted.
The best ones are around 50%, subtract electricity distribution losses and it's even lower.
A gas stove is around 50 to 60% efficient at transferring the heat to the food.

In california, my understanding is the only real power plants being built are gas - only gas fired plants can cover the increased demand for electrification in your state due to being anti-nuclear for political reasons.
Wind and solar are too unreliable and don't produce enough to power electric stoves, heaters, cars etc.

Now in a place where most of the power plants are nuclear and or hydro, it makes sense to use electric stoves.
For example quebec canada.
Ontario, canada is kind of a wash because our base load plants are nuclear/hydro but natural gas is used to cover demand peaks.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

First offshore wind power sites auctioned off California's coast. One day it could power 1.5M homes.


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## Marq1 (May 31, 2021)

> My priority is not wasting fossil fuel energy resources because they are depleting.


Spoiler, guess where electricity comes from, at least 88%.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

Marq1 said:


> Spoiler, guess where electricity comes from, at least 88%.


Not in BC, Canada. I'd reckon 88% (or more) is hydro-electric sourced. No nuclear. Gas/electric plants have been shut down. Remote areas are diesel/electric.

I'd varies too much by region to make blanket statements.


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## notnew2diy (Sep 1, 2017)

Drachenfire said:


> Additionally, if there is a power outage, a gas stove will still functional.


All depends on what gas stove you have.
Dunno model, KitchenAid gas stove, electronic ignition.
Power outage...I rtfm...there is no way to get the stove to function w/o electricity.
Research I've done, mfgr does it to protect the computer within the machine.
I can buy a mini-UPS for it tho.

I wont get into the political fray on this topic.
I just vote...Don.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

rjniles said:


> Not sure how restaurants could function without gas. Have you ever seen wok cooking in a Chinese restaurant? My wife would kill if you took away her gas cooktop.


Charcoal? Wood? If you think of the millions of poor Chinese without gas lines. . . it has been done for thousands of years.

I'm not saying that's less polluting.

I wonder if our govt will take away BBQs?That would cause a revolt. It would go underground. 🤣

I don't know how our country will make much of an impact with Lesser Developed countries burning tires, etc.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

notnew2diy said:


> All depends on what gas stove you have.
> Dunno model, KitchenAid gas stove, electronic ignition.
> Power outage...I rtfm...there is no way to get the stove to function w/o electricity.
> Research I've done, mfgr does it to protect the computer within the machine.
> ...


With my Samsung dual fuel range, during an outage I light a burner with a propane stick lighter. The oven is electric and obviously doesn't work.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

rjniles said:


> Not sure how restaurants could function without gas. Have you ever seen wok cooking in a Chinese restaurant? My wife would kill if you took away her gas cooktop.


Our code requires that cooking equipment in restaurants (regardless of fuel) have exhaust hoods that are vented with makeup air and extinguishing systems provided. Without gas they will use some kind of high powered electric equipment.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Crops under solar panels can be a win-win


In dry places, photovoltaic shade can even reduce water use.




arstechnica.com


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## notnew2diy (Sep 1, 2017)

rjniles said:


> With my Samsung dual fuel range, during an outage I light a burner with a propane stick lighter. The oven is electric and obviously doesn't work.


Nope...don't work w/our Kitchenaid model # KFGD500ESS04.
FWIW...Don.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

notnew2diy said:


> All depends on what gas stove you have.
> Dunno model, KitchenAid gas stove, electronic ignition.
> Power outage...I rtfm...there is no way to get the stove to function w/o electricity.
> Research I've done, mfgr does it to protect the computer within the machine.
> ...


BBQ lighter









Have done it before..., works just fine.


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## notnew2diy (Sep 1, 2017)

Drachenfire said:


> BBQ lighter
> 
> Have done it before..., works just fine.


You have a Kitchenaid model # KFGD500ESS04 ???
I have the same lighter. I also have matches, a bic lighter.
None of them are worth a hill of beans if the gas does not flow.
FWIW...Don.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

I reckon you can plug the gas stove into a generator via extension cord... like I do for my fridge and internet when the power is out.


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## notnew2diy (Sep 1, 2017)

u2slow said:


> I reckon you can plug the gas stove into a generator via extension cord... like I do for my fridge and internet when the power is out.


It's a gas stove. I can see needing power if its electronic ignition of the burners. 
With this stove, the entire unit needs power or nothing works.
Sorry for rant/derail of the original thread...Don.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

notnew2diy said:


> It's a gas stove. I can see needing power if its electronic ignition of the burners.
> With this stove, the entire unit needs power or nothing works.
> Sorry for rant/derail of the original thread...Don.


I imagine yours has solenoid valves on the gas supply. It shouldn't be a power intensive appliance... an inverter-battery/jumpstart pack might be enough.


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## Marq1 (May 31, 2021)

> I'd varies too much by region to make blanket statements.


Being that this is a US forum I think we can conclude that we're talking generally the US.

Now that being said the number is a little off, I didn't subtract the nuclear option so we actuall closer to 79% non-renewable!


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Joe Biden ran on a promise "to end fossil fuel".
Now everyone knows that Joe's ability to talk and think at the same time is questionable.....but I think there was a hidden meaning in his statement.
He's pushing EV's for everything, from scooters to semi-trucks. And if he is 1/3 as smart as he thinks he is he would understand that chargers for EV's need something to power them.
An example given was that one good size charging station for several vehicles needs the equivalent amount of power needed for a major sports stadium.
And a charging station for semi-truck and other big rigs will require the same amount of power that is consumed in an entire city of 25 thousand people.
Soooooo.
Maybe he is pushing solar, EV's for all consumers JUST so fossil fuel will be left to power the EV charging stations.
And since he's got a bankroll from China, and the EV batteries are made in China 80% of the time........maybe he's just looking out for old number one.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

u2slow said:


> Not in BC, Canada. I'd reckon 88% (or more) is hydro-electric sourced. No nuclear. Gas/electric plants have been shut down. Remote areas are diesel/electric.


But that is only 5 million people.....New York City has nearly 9 million.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

Missouri Bound said:


> But that is only 5 million people.....New York City has nearly 9 million.


And? 

We build more hydro-electric as population/demand increases.









Site C Clean Energy Project


Site C, a potential third dam and generating station on the Peace River in northeast B.C., is one of several resource options being considered for meeting B.C.'s future energy needs.




www.bchydro.com


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

I have always used gas stoves, but recently installed CO2 monitor in my home and was astonished at what it did. Now I have a bunch of plants and a venting skylight to offset CO2. Gas is a dirty fuel, and I would support its ban had American Market caught up to European Market in terms of induction and electric stoves, ovens and stovetops. For example, to get a mediocre performance from an induction stove for a 12" pan you have to get a coil of diameter that will place the product past $5K. And that is ridiculous for an average home owner. Electric stoves leave MUCH to be desired in terms of performance, energy efficiency and safety.

America is just not ready to let go of gas, especially in the kitchen, no matter how good your cooking skills are. Sorry.


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## billt460 (Dec 12, 2020)

Our government had better smarten up, and figure out where the hell all of this electricity is going to come from, to charge the batteries on all of these EV's their pushing for. And now they want all electric stoves to go with it. 

The power grid in most of this country is overtaxed as it is. Add in millions of electric cars and electric stoves, and we're going to have real problems. Talk about putting the cart before the horse!


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## jworks (Jan 24, 2017)

Gas 100%. When power outages occur I can still cook, and still warm my house. Doing away with gas stoves is b.s. Yes, mine starts with the electric igniter. So what??.....if power goes out just light the thing with a match. Good grief. PC is ruining the best lifestyle ever created on earth.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

rjniles said:


> restaurants


My understanding is that restaurants are increasingly moving to induction hobs. It saves them a bundle on cooling costs (and possibly fire insurance). Historically, conservative chefs have never been able to make any move to electrical resistance hobs partly because they can't learn how to take advantage of their strengths. (For me, there are only two kinds of stoves, good stoves and bad stoves. I can use gas or electric.) Induction mimics flame better, but is way more efficient in getting the power into the food instead of the kitchens. Gas is truly awful in that respect. As far as woks go, I use one, but usually outdoors with a huge burner. I've seen some nice induction hobs for Woks offered, but I've never used one nor seen any reviews.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

Marq1 said:


> That's a big thing in CA all new homes are built without any gas hookups, all electric.
> 
> It's not that the stoves cause pollution it's because parents don't make their kids go outside any more and they just play games. Probably should link stoves to obesity!


IN the 60s, there was a fad towards "all electric". I think that it went along with the prediction that fission thermal electricity generation was going to be clean, and "too cheap to meter".


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

Missouri Bound said:


> ...An example given was that one good size charging station for several vehicles needs the equivalent amount of power needed for a major sports stadium.
> And a charging station for semi-truck and other big rigs will require the same amount of power that is consumed in an entire city of 25 thousand people.....


Please cite your sources so we can evaluate the facts and logic.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

SkyM said:


> I have always used gas stoves, but recently installed CO2 monitor in my home and was astonished at what it did. Now I have a bunch of plants and a venting skylight to offset CO2. Gas is a dirty fuel, and I would support its ban had American Market caught up to European Market in terms of induction and electric stoves, ovens and stovetops. For example, to get a mediocre performance from an induction stove for a 12" pan you have to get a coil of diameter that will place the product past $5K. And that is ridiculous for an average home owner. Electric stoves leave MUCH to be desired in terms of performance, energy efficiency and safety.
> 
> America is just not ready to let go of gas, especially in the kitchen, no matter how good your cooking skills are. Sorry.


If you live in a location that requires a lot of cooling and do a lot of cooking, a lot of the cost will be made up on lower HVAC costs.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

SW Dweller said:


> Crock of BS. I have asthma and have since I was a young boy. Mine is triggered by mold in the air, 10-15 microns in diameter. So I Iive in a dry climate. The concept that higher levels of nitrogen will only effect children is BUNK. It will effect everyone. I have a gas stove and used it daily, I have a vent over it and it works best when I crack the window and turn on the vent. The concept of cooking with out a vent is beyond my comprehension. Yes I know there are homes where the vents do not go outside. I do not live in one. Nor will I ever live in one. Ya gotta be smarter than the problem


Our normal atmosphere is about 80% nitrogen (N2). I don't understand your comment about nitrogen.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Missouri Bound said:


> Maybe he is pushing solar, EV's for all consumers JUST so fossil fuel will be left to power the EV charging stations.


That's fairly stupid, considering that the pollution per kWh output to the vehicle drivetrain is about the same for an ICE burning gasoline or a power plant burning natural gas.




u2slow said:


> We build more hydro-electric as population/demand increases.


It's nice that you have the empty space to flood so you can do that. Most of the US is maxed out on places where we can build dams and create reservoirs.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

SkyM said:


> Gas is a dirty fuel


Gas (methane) is one of cleanest burning next to hydrogen. Ships and buses advertise how 'green' they are for burning it. Fuels have combustion byproducts. No getting around that. Also, unburnt methane emissions are some 20x worse for the atmosphere than CO2.

Truly dirty fuels like bunker C and diesel have other environmental hazards, not just air pollution.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

user_12345a said:


> Gas stoves are safe when they correctly installed and vented with a range hood and used correctly.
> Electric stoves can actually start fires too - there is a fire risk with any stove.
> 
> Electric coil ranges carry an extra burn risk because they can be hot but not be red.
> ...


Please cite your sources for gas-fired generation facilities. I don't believe the number that you quote (30% typical and 50% at best). I recall figures much better than that. Furthermore in facilities that can make use of the "waste" heat, the efficiency can approach the high 90s in terms of efficiency. Take home furnaces and boilers. The standard used to be 80 or 85%, but now a condensing furnace or boiler in a well designed system can recover upwards of 95% of the heat in the fuel. Furthermore, gas is going out so the argument will be moot.

Hydro has its own problems, disruption of major food sources. You have an argument with respect to electric distribution losses which is an excellent argument for distributed PV and other renewables rather than large central "plants".


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

ionized said:


> If you live in a location that requires a lot of cooling and do a lot of cooking, a lot of the cost will be made up on lower HVAC costs.


I have full 4 seasons. In the summer I use countertop electric oven. In the winter it's free heat. The problem is now that I have a CO2 monitor - 15 minutes of high flame in the winter with windows closed and CO2 is at over 1,500PPM. This is what happens when you live with a gas stove. So I did set out to get an induction stove and found that I'll have to settle for something like Wolf because most of the cooking I do is with the 12" pan, so I need the coil to be 12" or larger in diameter. I tried many times to use electric stovetops, and they're just subpar. It's a different story when I travel to Europe - I would trade my gas stove for what they have on a market there in a hearbeat.

Anyway, long story short, I live the States, so I'm keeping my gas stove. Picture demonstrates what I have to deal with because of this choice, but I love my maillard reaction


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

notnew2diy said:


> Nope...don't work w/our Kitchenaid model # KFGD500ESS04.


Sucks for you. The burners on my GE work just fine when the power is off. I'll make sure to look out for that shortcoming next time I'm shopping for a stove.


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## u2slow (Feb 9, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> It's nice that you have the empty space to flood so you can do that. Most of the US is maxed out on places where we can build dams and create reservoirs.


LOL... last I checked, Alaska is quite empty with a lot of potential.

Here, what's flooded is already done. Some remote sites featuring natural reservoirs still haven't been developed. The move is now secondary generation on existing reservoirs. We even have existing hydroelectric generation that's way under-utilized.


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## JohnnyVirgil (Jun 9, 2019)

notnew2diy said:


> All depends on what gas stove you have.
> Dunno model, KitchenAid gas stove, electronic ignition.
> Power outage...I rtfm...there is no way to get the stove to function w/o electricity.
> Research I've done, mfgr does it to protect the computer within the machine.
> ...


I can light mine with a bic. Kenmore dual fuel.


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## rjniles (Feb 5, 2007)

u2slow said:


> LOL... last I checked, Alaska is quite empty with a lot of potential.


Alaska is a long way from the lower 48 states where most of the users are located. Electricity doesn't ship well.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

SkyM said:


> I have full 4 seasons.... found that I'll have to settle for something like Wolf because most of the cooking I do is with the 12" pan, so I need the coil to be 12" or larger in diameter. I tried many times to use electric stovetops, and they're just subpar. It's a different story when I travel to Europe - I would trade my gas stove for what they have on a market there in a hearbeat.


Respectfully, I think that you should take another look at induction. I have made extensive use of a plug-in 120V, 15A hobs with 12" skillets. I can easily overheat the pans with or without food in them. I've got some 14" skillets and saute pans and it can't make those hot enough (36% larger surface area). That includes cast iron, non stick and stainless (tri ply). With a cook top or range, you'd have the equivalent of a 208/240 plug-in which are much higher power. Without looking, they should be at least twice the power. A typical high power induction hob heats very much faster than a 17kBTU gas hob. I don't know what the output is of the high power gas range hobs you are referring to. My ideal kitchen would probably have individual hobs sunk into the counter and include a couple induction, one electrical resistance and yes, a gas hob. Induction would serve most of my needs. The electrical resistance coil would be for my stock pot. I hate the duty cycle aspect of induction for that although pulsing power aids in mixing. I suspect the heat transfer efficiency rivals induction in that kind of use. The gas, well, sometimes shaking the pan over a flame is just the way to do things. I like and make use of the slow cooling of the electric coils sometimes.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

u2slow said:


> LOL... last I checked, Alaska is quite empty with a lot of potential.


The elk, bears and people that have lived there for many generations might not agree.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

ionized said:


> Respectfully, I think that you should take another look at induction.


I did. The only one to my fancy in US is made by Wolf and I can put in a bunch of venting skylights for the cost of that cooktop and keep my NXR gas range that I paid $1,500 for 15 years ago.
Now, overseas I would use an induction cooktops that are fraction of the cost and they're stellar.
Stop thinking that voltage has any relevance. It doesn't. 8" coil will never sear edges of a 10 or 12 inch pan. Period.
And any stove/stovetop in US for residential market under $5-8K has 8" coils or less.

As far as portable ones, it's even sadder. breville control freak induction burner is the only one that has 8" coil, and it's the cost of my gas range: $1,500.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

u2slow said:


> LOL... last I checked, Alaska is quite empty with a lot of potential.


Except that's a looooong way from any large population centers where the power would be needed. That aside, there would also be significant logistical hurdles to developing hydroelectric that far north.


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## mpnret (Nov 11, 2010)

Deleted


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## mpnret (Nov 11, 2010)

SkyM said:


> I did. The only one to my fancy in US is made by Wolf and I can put in a bunch of venting skylights for the cost of that cooktop and keep my NXR gas range that I paid $1,500 for 15 years ago.
> Now, overseas I would use an induction cooktops that are fraction of the cost and they're stellar.
> Stop thinking that voltage has any relevance. It doesn't. 8" coil will never sear edges of a 10 or 12 inch pan. Period.
> And any stove/stovetop in US for residential market under $5-8K has 8" coils or less.
> ...


We have a GE induction range. Cost about 1/2 of your induction estimates above. It blows away gas in all aspects of cooking. Higher performance, more precise at temp control, you can instantly raise or lower temp, no CO2, 12" pans no problem. And get this when the power goes out it still works without even lighting. OK that one is only possible because my natural gas generator automatically kicks on but at least it's outside.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

SkyM said:


> Stop thinking that voltage has any relevance. It doesn't. 8" coil will never sear edges of a 10 or 12 inch pan. Period.


To the contrary, voltage and current are everything with respect to electrical power. That proportionality is kindergarten physics, P=IV. Typical residential 120V circuits in the US are 20A tops and you only get ~2400W out of that, not taking account of the nature of AC vs. DC power. The problem, however, is that we can't get past the historical 15A circuit old standard so you see no appliances above 1800W (actually, 1440 continuous). Yes you can have larger 120V circuits but since it is much less expensive to run lower gauge cable at higher voltage and lower current, most of the time you have 240V devices in residential settings. To summarize, a 20A, 120V circuit gets you about 1920W continuous, A 20A, 240V circuit gets you 3840W. You can power a bigger coil with 240V and you will get a bigger coil with a 240V device. Power in is proportional to available power out.

More to the practical side, twice this week I sliced (thin) up a waxy potato for dinner and put it into a 12" non stick pan on a 120V portable hob. The first time I used olive oil and the second, butter. There were some other differences in seasoning but onions included both times. The potatoes were quite evenly browned, as evenly as I've ever done on an electric coil or a gas hob, around the circumference of the pan extending to a couple of slices in the center. I've used quite a few gas and electric coil hobs, good and bad.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

SkyM said:


> Now I have a bunch of plants and a venting skylight to offset CO2


Glad that you have the plants,, but your concern is NOT CO2, but Carbon Monoxide, CO. Has nothing to do with plants or venting skylights. If your CO monitors were activating, you have something wrong with your cooktop. You should always vent over gas stove anyway, so that would solve the problem.


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## delusional (Jan 5, 2011)

Every single one of you who thinks gas is the most precise way to cook has not used an electric induction stove. Paired with the right pans, it offers EXACT temperature control, every time. Instantaneous temperature adjustment too. The cooktop stays cool, which is far safer than any other method. It heats faster than every other method. 
Efficiency is above resistive electric, and doesn't heat your kitchen nearly as much. A hidden efficiency advantage is when you're cooking something not too stinky (boiling water), you don't need an exhaust fan dumping the air you just heated or cooled to the outside.
Because the cooktop itself generates very little heat, food and cooking splatters won't cook onto the surface. This makes it very easy to clean. You can actually place paper towels or newspapers on the surface while you cook! Cook some bacon without a lid, then just pick up the newspaper. Done.
The only cons are it's a little more expensive up front, and there's a small fan making noise. Maybe the glass could break.
I urge every gas chef to at least try induction for awhile. There is a learning curve but it's not very steep.
If you have resistive electric, what are you waiting for?

Induction is the future. The future is NOW.
If you say you care about the future, gas is not an option. You should electrify everything. At least a portion of your "fuel" will be renewable today, and that portion will grow over time. Have you heard that it's cheaper TODAY to build a NEW solar park, than it is to keep an EXISTING gas generation plant running. This is true. Today. People who run gas (or coal) generators know this, but are doing all they can to keep you from finding out. They don't want their assets to be stranded. Don't believe me? Google "gas generation plans canceled" there have been dozens of proposed gas generators canceled.

Further reading
EIA expects renewables to account for 22% of U.S. electricity generation in 2022
EIA expects renewables to account for 22% of U.S. electricity generation in 2022 

New renewable power plants are reducing U.S. electricity generation from natural gas








New renewable power plants are reducing U.S. electricity generation from natural gas







www.eia.gov




The Money Quote: "we forecast that most of the growth in U.S. electricity generation in 2022 and 2023 will come from new renewable energy sources."
It should really say "almost all the growth will be from renewable sources"


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

@delusional remember opinions are like belly buttons. With induction cook tops, you lose the ability of using quite versatile Corning ware or other non-iron based cookware. Slight inconvenience for some, but for others it is nice to have the convenience.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

ionized said:


> More to the practical side, twice this week I sliced (thin) up a waxy potato for dinner and put it into a 12" non stick pan on a 120V portable hob. The first time I used olive oil and the second, butter. There were some other differences in seasoning but onions included both times. The potatoes were quite evenly browned, as evenly as I've ever done on an electric coil or a gas hob, around the circumference of the pan extending to a couple of slices in the center. I've used quite a few gas and electric coil hobs, good and bad


For my cooking style I find the performance unacceptable. Speaking of which, cooking style also needs to be adjusted a great deal. There's no classic basting the steak in butter or maneuvering the pan for sauteing: the surface has to remain flush. And don't even get me started on pan warping. Again, has to do with US market coil size vs the standard cookware which tends to have base diameter of 10" or larger.

*EDIT: *I'm not sure if I was explaining this clearly. I found this video. I am on par with everything this cook is saying about induction stoves. Now don't get me wrong, they're great cooking tools, but I would never buy one in US.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Nice sales pitch, delusional. heating and cooking with gas is still about 1/4 the cost of electricity in my locale. After a little practice, I get fairly precise temperature control with my gas range.

I have a standalone induction cooker, which we rarely use.



chandler48 said:


> @delusional remember opinions are like belly buttons.


I thought opinions were like armpits...


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

chandler48 said:


> Glad that you have the plants,, but your concern is NOT CO2, but Carbon Monoxide, CO. Has nothing to do with plants or venting skylights. If your CO monitors were activating, you have something wrong with your cooktop. You should always vent over gas stove anyway, so that would solve the problem.


CO is my concern with my gas boiler, not gas stove. As a matter in fact, most metropolitan cities like NYC are banning gas appliances for their emission of CO2, aka greenhouse gases, hence the environmental argument comes in. Some cities and municipalities are banning ventless gas fireplaces for that very reason.

I'm sure you've heard old grandma's advise at some point to crack the window open when cooking Thanksgiving turkey in the oven. Well, it's CO2, not CO. Words of wisdom right then.

Again, plants and venting skylight is my goto. In US.

EDIT: I got my CO and CO2's messed up. Don't know why. Edited proper acronyms but the argument stands. Durp.


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## mpnret (Nov 11, 2010)

chandler48 said:


> @delusional remember opinions are like belly buttons. With induction cook tops, you lose the ability of using quite versatile Corning ware or other non-iron based cookware. Slight inconvenience for some, but for others it is nice to have the convenience.


Not really true. For occasional use of non inductive cookware like Corning ware we just put an induction disc under it. You loose some of the advantages of induction but still a hell of a lot better than gas.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

HotRodx10 said:


> ...heating and cooking with gas is still about 1/4 the cost of electricity in my locale....


Please, show your work.


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## Msradell (Sep 1, 2011)

u2slow said:


> And?
> 
> We build more hydro-electric as population/demand increases.
> 
> ...


The problem is that especially out West environmentalists are demanding that hydroelectric plants be removed to return the rivers to their natural flows! I highly doubt you will see anymore large-scale hydroelectric plants built in the United States!

Maybe your environmentalists in Canada don't shout quite as loud as they do here in the states!


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

ionized said:


> Please, show your work.


Using the recently adjusted rates from my utility bill:

Electricity cost per unit of heat ---> 1 kWh = 3412 BTU = .03412 therms ---> $0.132/kWh = $3.87/therm
Gas cost per unit of energy ----> $0.99/therm

$0.99 / $3.87 = .256 ---> So, currently it's slightly higher than 1:4. It used to be closer to 1:6, and who knows, it may be back to that ratio in the future.

Even at the low end of heating efficiency for a gas range (40%), it's still less expensive than cooking with the highest efficiency induction cooktop (90%). Of course, modern high efficiency gas burners are between 60% and 75% efficiency, and during the 7 or 8 months of the heating season here, none of the heat is actually wasted, anyway.


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

Volcanoes and swamps are next on the ban list.

We're dealing with a cult, folks.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

HotRodx10 said:


> Using the recently adjusted rates from my utility bill:
> 
> Electricity cost per unit of heat ---> 1 kWh = 3412 BTU = .03412 therms ---> $0.132/kWh = $3.87/therm
> Gas cost per unit of energy ----> $0.99/therm
> ...


Honestly, you did way too much work, friend. Gas is always always always cheaper. In Americas anyway. Overseas is a different story with Russia, Turkey and World bank and all. 

Too much work. Gas is cheap. Gas is dirty. But gas is superior. In appliances anyway. Can't wait for this discussion to sway to water heaters (add tankless to the mix and that will be a riot) 🤣🤣🤣


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SkyM said:


> Honestly, you did way too much work, friend.


It only took a few minutes to recalculate with the new numbers. I thought it was an opportunity to share the process, in case others might want to see how it was done, so they could do a comparison for their own energy costs.

The CO2 from a gas stove is inconsequential. 2 people engaged in 'vigorous exercise' produce as much CO2 as a gas burner outputting 3500 BTU; nobody seems to be worried about that causing health issues.

Properly operating gas appliances produce negligible amounts of CO and other air pollutants. Natural gas burns much cleaner than wood, but I don't hear anything about wood stoves ruining the indoor air quality or the environment.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

HotRodx10 said:


> The CO2 from a gas stove is inconsequential. 2 people engaged in 'vigorous exercise' produce as much CO2 as a gas burner outputting 3500 BTU


my stove = 90,000 BTUs. it's a residential model too.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SkyM said:


> my stove = 90,000 BTUs. it's a residential model too.


Well, yeah, if you have all burners on full and the oven. My point was that the CO2 output is not even close to being enough to cause hypercapnia.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

HotRodx10 said:


> Well, yeah, if you have all burners on full and the oven. My point was that the CO2 output is not even close to being enough to cause hypercapnia.


look up my comment 46. I have open layout. This is regular cooking during cold months when everything is airtight. I DO vent with skylight tho, but options are limited as temps are freezing.








Gas stoves could be banned in 2023


I have always used gas stoves, but recently installed CO2 monitor in my home and was astonished at what it did. Now I have a bunch of plants and a venting skylight to offset CO2. Gas is a dirty fuel, and I would support its ban had American Market caught up to European Market in terms of...




www.diychatroom.com


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SkyM said:


> look up my comment 46.


See chandler48's Post #58. If your CO detector is registering high levels, it's either because you're breathing on it while you're reading it, or you have a problem with one of your gas appliances where it's not burning the gas completely like it's supposed to.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

HotRodx10 said:


> See chandler48's Post #58.


lolz. keep scrolling to my reply to that comment in post #63.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SkyM said:


> lolz. keep scrolling to my reply to that comment in post #63.


My comment stands - if you're registering high carbon monoxide (CO) levels from your gas appliances, they're not working correctly.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

HotRodx10 said:


> My comment stands - if you're registering high carbon monoxide (CO) levels from your gas appliances, they're not working correctly.


Actually, ALL gas stoves emit carbon monoxide (CO) when oven is used. So stoves that are working correctly will register carbon monoxide. Level will very depending on many factors, such as time appliance is operated, the area, etc.

The discussion was in reference to CO2 (carbon dioxide). And that's where your original comment about breathing on the detector would have been right. Humans expel CO2, not CO.


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

It's just the climate nuts (really just tools of the Kommie's/NWO) trying to cripple/kill the big energy companies that support the Middle Class (us).


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

RockyMtBeerMan said:


> It's just the climate nuts (really just tools of the Kommie's/NWO) trying to cripple/kill the big energy companies that support the Middle Class (us).


Unfortunately the "climate nuts" are right about one thing: energy sources we rely most on are finite. So, while we may not be running out of natural gas in our life-time eventually there will be nothing for the stoves to get powered with. I would be joining their ranks if American market offered options that Europe has been enjoying for years if not decades. So, in that regard, if anything is screwing the Middle Class is the monopolizing markets that lock in this country to limiting options.


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## RockyMtBeerMan (Dec 12, 2018)

There's miles and miles of wind turbines and solar farms here in the west, so I wouldn't say they're limiting things. There's lots of nook reactors, mostly in the east, too. Economies of scale and all that creates oligarchies.


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## SkyM (7 mo ago)

RockyMtBeerMan said:


> There's miles and miles of wind turbines and solar farms here in the west, so I wouldn't say they're limiting things. There's lots of nook reactors, mostly in the east, too. Economies of scale and all that creates oligarchies.


You're right. Energy sources are not limited. And what's good is that they're becoming more accessible and cheaper. But what you use that energy for is coming in in dribs and drabs. Practically anything that performs is either out of price range (e.g. induction stoves I complained about in prior posts, to EV vehicles) or not available on American (meaning US) market in a first place.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

SkyM said:


> Humans expel CO2, not CO.


We actually exhale both, which is why exhaling on a CO detector will register elevated levels, and sometimes set off alarms. Typical household warning devices, even gas 'sniffers', don't detect CO2.


SkyM said:


> So, while we may not be running out of natural gas in our life-time eventually there will be nothing for the stoves to get powered with.


By then, probably none of the stoves we have today will be operational. It seems ridiculous to start banning, or even phasing out, gas stoves, based on what might happen a century from now.


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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

mpnret said:


> We have a GE induction range. Cost about 1/2 of your induction estimates above. It blows away gas in all aspects of cooking. Higher performance, more precise at temp control, you can instantly raise or lower temp, no CO2, 12" pans no problem. And get this when the power goes out it still works without even lighting. OK that one is only possible because my natural gas generator automatically kicks on but at least it's outside.


I agree. I’m amazed at the performance of our induction range. The accuracy of the temperature. It’s amazing how fast you can boil water. Much better than gas IMO. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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