# What's up with this window?



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

You have moisture issues. Could be from both the inside and outside.
Does the window get wet during a shower?


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

No, the window does not get wet during a shower, it's above the shower head, about 7 foot from the floor. The water came from outside, my house inspector said it might be the caulking. I have checked it during heavy rain, and there is no active leak. The window has been damaged like that since I bought the house. I need to replace it, but I'm confused as to why there appears to be two frames. If I put in a fixed window, would it not just go where the older, white frame is? Or do I have to attach a new window exactly like it is now?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Caulking is rarely the issue though it's the favorite solution of a homeowner. He does that because he doesn't know anything else.
Photos of the outside might clarify the issue.
You can put any size/shape window in you want. Costs will vary with size and siding type you have.
How old is the house?


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

I can try to get a close up exterior shot in the morning, I don't currently have a ladder tall enough, but I can borrow one from my brother-in-law when I'm ready to do the work.

I figured I would just replace it with a window of the same size. The opening is 21.5" in an octagon. I have vinyl siding, white, with red brick underneath. The house was built in 1965, last renovated in 1972.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

A closer picture of the exterior will help us diagnose the exterior leak. 

Is the siding aluminum or vinyl?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

To me, the discoloration at the bottom of the window frame indicates condensation running down from the glass.


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## dd57chevy (Jun 21, 2015)

Interesting problem . I would be willing to risk risk some guesses/observations/suggestions .

1. I don't think that window is 1955 vintage . 
A . The removable mullion grills with plastic securing devices (2nd pic in OP) is a give away . 
B. The unusual ...look... of a window like that on the ft of house

2 . I would _guess _the original wood window rotted & this was the replacement .

3 . You have _zero_ roof overhang _AND_ it is directly over a shower . The only place it would encounter _a _HIGHER moisture environment is if it were installed in the side of an above ground swimming pool !
Wood windows & water never "play well together" .
4 . I would advise :
A . Tearing it out .
B . Inspecting wall for damage .
C . Properly installing anappropriately sized _vinyl _replacement . What you do to the interior wall would have "to be determined" .


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

Hi everyone! Thanks for the help so far! Sorry for the late replies, but I spent the morning installing my new bathroom vanity ^_^

I finally have the exterior shots. Sorry about the blurry one, but that's the top of the window and I was on my tip-toes on my 3 step ladder with my phone overhead trying to get that shot. But I can see a hole in what I guess is the caulking that the home inspector was talking about.
@*Windows on Wash* - It is vinyl siding
@*123pugsy* - I did not consider that
@*dd57chevy* - 
1. I don't think the window is that old either. And yes, I very much dislike it too. I would prefer to go with a square window, but I'm afraid re-framing will be biting off more that I can chew, I am still a bit of a beginner.

2. Me too
3. Lol, too true.
4. I was trying to figure out a way I could at least cover the wood with something from the inside to stop shower moisture, but I'm not sure other then getting something like flashing, attaching it, then caulking and adding some kind of plastic trim. Also, if I'm right, then based on what you said, the white part is the interior wall, and the brown part is exterior?

Anyhoo, outside pictures!


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Looks like you have a massive gap over the window. That needs to be flashed and sealed. It's not going to fix the window, but it will keep water out until it's replaced.


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

I thought it was sticking out really far.

Can I put a window that will be flush with the inside wall? It just seems odd to me that there's such a huge gap for the window.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

B-chelle said:


> I thought it was sticking out really far.
> 
> Can I put a window that will be flush with the inside wall? It just seems odd to me that there's such a huge gap for the window.


You just need to hire someone who can put the window in correctly. That will entail the interior as well as the exterior aspects.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

In addition to all the other valid comments, that style of window is totally dependent on the weather seals between the jamb and sash as is has no projection or channels to deflect the water. I've seen blowing rain enter through those seals even on newer hinged windows.

If it were mine it would become fixed glazing or be changed out to an awning or hopper style.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

You said,

"I thought it was sticking out really far.

Can I put a window that will be flush with the inside wall? It just seems odd to me that there's such a huge gap for the window."

Why does it seem odd.?

You said,

" I have vinyl siding, white, with red brick underneath."


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

@Ron6519 - Yeah, time to start saving pennies towards that. For now, I'm just gonna have to put something on it to keep the air out...winter is coming!
@Colbyt - I do want a fixed window! It's high up in the bathroom, it's not like I'm ever going to open it.
@ron45 - All the other windows in the house don't stick as far out from the side of the house as this one does. Plus, from the inside, it looks unfinished to me.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I suspect as mentioned above by someone that window was replaced at some point in time, the interior trim was not removed and thus the window sticks out.

That style of window is available in fixed glazing. I've made interior templates and mounting boards for window treatments to fit inside them.

Removing all interior trim, casing and the exterior portion of the old window should allow you to flask, seal and caulk a new window into place. Then you extend the interior jambs to the proper level and install the interior trim. I would suggest using a vinyl or aluminum window for the replacement.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

I wouldn't use aluminum in a cold location as it is a great conductor and may sweat in the winter. I had water running down my wall every winter from an aluminum window frame.


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

@Colbyt - Unless they drywalled right over the trim, I don't think it's trim. I think it's the original window jams. Either way, I think you're right. It may wait until spring, only because the school year starts for me tomorrow. I think once I take the old window off, a lot of the mystery will go away.

And yes, I think vinyl would be best for me.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Your image 3 in post 1 does make it look that way.

It is still not major surgery. The jamb on the vinyl window will have to be extended no matter what and DW is not hard to cut back.

The time lag between removal, establishing the proper size, temporary cover, ordering and delivery will be a few weeks so spring might make more sense. It depends on your time and weather patterns.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

Agree with recommendations for vinyl. I would also go for a rectangular or square fixed window that doesn't open which will reduce the cost and possibility of leaks. A bathroom needs a fan for ventilation, not a window.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

ChuckF. said:


> Agree with recommendations for vinyl. I would *also go for a rectangular or square fixed window* that doesn't open which will reduce the cost and possibility of leaks. A bathroom needs a fan for ventilation, not a window.


In correct.... This opening is framed for an Octagon window. To change to anything else, the interior drywall would need to be removed, and the opening re-framed with a proper header and jack and king studs along with cripples. A LOT more work than necessary. Unless the OP "wants" to get rid of the octagon.


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

B-chelle said:


> @*Colbyt* - Unless they drywalled right over the trim, I don't think it's trim. *I think it's the original window jams*. Either way, I think you're right. It may wait until spring, only because the school year starts for me tomorrow. I think once I take the old window off, a lot of the mystery will go away.
> 
> And yes, I think vinyl would be best for me.


Hello B-chelle.....

You are partially correct. That inside piece is not the original jamb, but it appears to be a jamb extension they left in place. It should have been removed with the prior window and the new window would not have extended so far out in the weather.

To do this right, will not be an easy task. But, with the right tools, materials and some patience, you will be able to replace this window and have years and YEARS of trouble free service. 

You will need.... a good miter saw, a table saw (to rip your cellular PVC when necessary), a finish nailer, a caulk gun and various hand tools like a hammer, a good pry bar or wonder tool, a good utility or box knife and a small torpedo level to name a few. 

For materials you will need: 1 ea: 5/4 x 6" x 16' cellular PVC, 1 ea: 16' cove molding in cellular PVC, 1 ea: 1" x 2" (or 1" x 3" - whatever you need) x 16' cellular PVC trim, 1 ea: roll of 6" wide peel and stick flashing tape, 1 ea: vinyl octagon window with nail fin, and two tubes of HIGH quality urethane or tri-polymer caulk (NOT cheap silicone), and a small box of 1-1/2" galvanized roof nails and a 16' piece of cellular PVC window casing of your choice.

I recommend you remove both the window and the extension to get to the original rough opening. Next, I would recommend installing a new buck frame made out of cellular PVC like AZEK or VERSATEX. I would use the 5/4 x however deep your jamb is. The 5/4 product is 1" thick which will make it extremely sturdy and you will need the thickness which I'll get into later. 

If your jamb depth is 4-9/16", you will need to by a piece that's 5/4 by 6" which will actually be 5/4 x 5-1/2" and rip it to 4-9/16" wide. The cellular PVC only comes in 14' or 16' lengths. You won't need that much obviously, but it gives you a cushion in case of a mistake.

Once your buck frame is in place, you will want to install your vinyl window. Now, be SURE to know EXACTLY how wide your opening will be after installing your buck frame, and order your vinyl window 1/2" narrower. Remember, your vinyl window AND your PVC buck frame will be expanding and contracting. So, you MUST have enough room for that to happen.

Lay a bead of high quality sealant (urethane or tri-polymer) on the back side of your nail fin. Your nail fin is 1" and having the 1" jamb and accounting for downsizing the window, your jamb is now thick enough to accept the nail fin. Center the window in the opening and nail with 8" galvanized roof nails through the nail fin into your 5/4 PVC jamb. One nail on each leg. At this point, I would recommend checking the plum of the window with your level. You "may need to adjust it a bit with shims behind your nail fin.

We're going to finish the outside first. Take your flashing tape and cut a piece about an inch longer than the bottom leg. trim the width to cover the nail fin and wide enough, so that after folding/creasing it, it will extend onto the siding J-channel by about 1/2." Next fold or crease it into an "L" shape. Peel the release paper off the back and start on the J-channel at the bottom and extend it onto the nail fin. Continue this process around the window doing the SE and SW legs next, followed by the E/W side legs, then the NE/NW legs, finishing with the top leg.

Next, take your piece of 1" x 2" PVC cellular trim (or whatever width you need) and starting at the bottom leg working your way up (just like with the flashing tape) install your trim which will go from your J-channel and covering the nail fin. Next, lay a small bead of your high quality sealant between your new trim and the J-channel and also between your trim and your window.

Now, we're gonna finish the inside.... There will be a 1/4" gap around the window (if you've centered it correctly which is a MUST for expansion and contraction of the window and frame). Do not try and foam or stuff insulation in this gap. You need it for expansion and contraction. If you can order the window with a "foam wrap," go ahead and do so. The compression foam used by window manufacturer's wont interfere with the expansion and contraction of the window and jamb.

Next up.... you are going to install your cellular PVC cove molding to cover this gap. Once again, I would starting at the bottom and work your way around the window SE, SW, E, W, NE, NW, and N. Then lay a small bead of sealant between the window and the cove and the cove and the drywall.

Lastly, you will want to install your PVC window casing to cover any gaps between your new buck frame and the rough frame to "finish things off."

Voile.... you now have a professionally installed window that will NEVER leak and will stand up to all the hot shower steam you can throw at it.



Now, get after it and good luck!


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## CompleteW&D (Sep 4, 2015)

Follow up.... You know, with no soffits or over-hangs above that window, that entire two story wall takes a beating from the weather. You might consider putting an awning (either fabric or aluminum) over that window. It will definitely shield that opening from the driving rain and sun.

You might also want to consider removing those shutters. They don't lend themselves to an octagon window and look out of place,

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, just my $0.02 and all that.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

CompleteW&D said:


> ................You might also want to consider removing those shutters. They don't lend themselves to an octagon window and look out of place,
> 
> IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, just my $0.02 and all that.


Save the shutters for your new square/rectangular shaped window and they will blend in nicely. The size of the new window should match the shutter height nicely.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

CompleteW&D said:


> In correct.... This opening is framed for an Octagon window. To change to anything else, the interior drywall would need to be removed, and the opening re-framed with a proper header and jack and king studs along with cripples. A LOT more work than necessary. Unless the OP "wants" to get rid of the octagon.



All the ones I have seen are framed for a rectangle first and then modified. See this page for pictures: http://www.worldtrippers.com/05house/07f_upperjoists/l071020.htm


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## B-chelle (Aug 28, 2015)

Yeaaaaaah...definitely waiting until spring to replace. I agree, the shutters are bad with the octagon. For now, until I'm ready to get to work, I'm going to put something over it to keep the majority of rain/snow from laying up there. Half the houses on the block have octagon windows, and half have square windows, so I'm not sure which is original to the house (a couple people I've talked to think octagons are original to the neighborhood)

@CompleteW&D I am totally printing that out and saving it for the future. Thank you so much for the step by step!
@Colbyt - I'll know more when the old window is off. Finger's crossed that I have a nice spring break this year. If not, it'll be next July's project!


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