# No ventilation in bathroom, suggestions?



## LeviDIY

Hi all, embarking on my second bathroom renovation, project details are available here (http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/cond...emo-bathtub-shower-conversion-flooring-98814/).

I'm in a garden-style (4 story) condo complex built in 1980. A *serious design flaw* is that the bathrooms (and wash/dryer utility rooms) were all built interior, with no windows. *Further problem* is that there is no exterior ventilation for bathroom fans.. they simply "circulate." *FURTHER problem *is that the HOA/Condo association will not allow me to puncture the exterior structure on the side or roof, meaning no building of ductwork.

I've spoken with management about what others have done in remodeling (we've been here 3 years), as I'm sure people are running into the problems we are having.. and they say "well, leave the door open and open windows in adjoining rooms." 

Sorry... if you checked out the link to my post on the project, you'll see the mold issue we are having.

SO... other than venting up into space between floors (this does nothing but complicate things for me later on or my neighbors, and is probably not to code)... the only thing I've thought of is a dehumidifier.

Problem is, this is directly off of our master bedroom, and those things are loud SOBs... 

I found this on Amazon.com, with some pretty good reviews, wondering if you all have had experience:
http://www.amazon.com/Eva-dry-Edv-2200-Eva-Dry-Mid-Size-Dehumidifier/dp/B001QTW6KQ/ref=pd_sim_hpc_3

Also wondering if there are any "built in" models you've seen, as I'd like this to look finished, not "temporary," as it certainly will require to be on and connected most of the time. I was googling a bit to see if there are integrated models with bathroom fans/lights, but couldn't find anything.

Or, any other suggestions, besides mounting a revolt on the HOA?


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## LeviDIY

Via GBR in WA on another thread(http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/bathroom-exhaust-fan-code-89843/):

*M1507.2 Recirculation of air.* Exhaust air from bathrooms and toilet rooms shall not be recirculated within a residence or to another _dwelling unit_ and shall be exhausted directly to the outdoors. Exhaust air from bathrooms and toilet rooms shall not discharge into an _attic_, crawl space or other areas inside the building. http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...007_par001.htm

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......................................


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## Ron6519

How do you vent the dryer?
Ron


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## LeviDIY

Ron - short answer: we don't/can't.

Longer answer: the only thing we can do is take the dryer vent duct and put it into an indoor dryer vent thing
(http://www.improvementscatalog.com/home/improvements/75991-indoor-dryer-vent.html) which also adds to a mold problem in the utility closet... which, guess what, also houses the heat pump blower, which we've had to clean a few times already from mold).

Other owners in the complex have purchased a type of dryer that doesn't need to vent, but those are very very pricey.


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## Jim F

What about one of those portable A/C units witha 4" vent hose and window adapter? If you can set that up somehow so it will draw the air out of your bathroom and out a window that might work. What sort of a building has no exterior ventillation for the units? How do the other owners feel about this? And, what do they do to prevent mold? How many other owners are there? Maybe the owners can petition the HOA to have ventillation put in through the roof or an outer wall.


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## LeviDIY

@Jim F - thanks for the suggestion.

As you can see below, the bathrooms are interior and not even near a window to run that tubing, let alone the asthetical concerns.









Your HOA suggestion is a good one... quite frankly I have no idea what other people have done (there are 300+ units/owners). They have all had to have this problem.. and that leads me to some scary probable outcomes of venting into cavities between floors, lotta mold issues, etc. :furious:

I imagine a lot of people would be weary of special assessments, and quite frankly, I don't know if I have the time/energy/committment to fighting all that.

For now, a portable, somewhat quiet dehumidifier (like the one linked above) seems to be my own option, unless there are any more suggestions out there?


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## Jim F

That sounds like your best bet. Better the noise than mold. It can probably be shut off when you are sleeping anyway.


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## LeviDIY

As an update, posted this new but related thread: http://www.diychatroom.com/f15/mold-resolution-help-needed-101090/


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## danrb007

Is there a unit above yours? If not is there attic space? I would apeal to the HOA to allow you to vent the bathrooms and dryer out the roof. Mold can be a health hazard. Have you checked with your insurance they may cover mold damage and when they hire a contractor to mitigate the contractor may be able to update it to code. Does your furnace have a fresh air intake from the outside? I know in Wyoming if you do anything with the furnace requiring a permit you have to add a fresh air supply from the outside if there isn't one. Just some thought to force the HOA to allow you to vent.


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## LeviDIY

danrb007 said:


> Is there a unit above yours? If not is there attic space? I would apeal to the HOA to allow you to vent the bathrooms and dryer out the roof. Mold can be a health hazard. Have you checked with your insurance they may cover mold damage and when they hire a contractor to mitigate the contractor may be able to update it to code. Does your furnace have a fresh air intake from the outside? I know in Wyoming if you do anything with the furnace requiring a permit you have to add a fresh air supply from the outside if there isn't one. Just some thought to force the HOA to allow you to vent.


@dan - there is a unit above me.. a pretty large crawl space, and I've *THOUGHT* about venting into it... but that just diffuses the moisture issue over a wider area, and just isn't right... although there is concrete below her floor above me. I called my insurance company and in a condo its different.. I dont know, was very confused, and I guess its too late now as the evidence is in the county dump 

The HOA's standard response is: "you are not allowed to puncture the outside walls of the structure" - meaning no ventilation. 

I've certainly seen contractors in the complex, and I know many have renovated bathrooms, etc before, so I'm assuming NO ONE is building to code. I simply do not understand this.

I'm documenting everything, taking pictures, and when I have the time, plan on compiling everything, going to the HOA first to try to get something passed, and if not, might have to goto the county inspector?


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## Blondesense

LeviDIY said:


> I'm documenting everything, taking pictures, and when I have the time, plan on compiling everything, going to the HOA first to try to get something passed, and if not, might have to goto the county inspector?


In your place I'd be tempted to reverse your plan. Go to the county inspector first, then to the HOA. I don't know codes, but I suspect since your place was built in the 80's the requirement may have been to have either fan venting to the outside or a window. 

Talk to an inspector. Maybe as a hypothetical situation if you don't want to jump in with both feet. I suspect yours is not the first time restrictive HOA rules have clashed with building codes.

Get a county inspector behind you saying the place was not built to code and you may find a lot more leverage with your HOA. I can't imagine HOA requirements could trump building codes.

Edited to add:
BTW, does _your_ project require a permit/inspection? If so, they may fight your battle for you.


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## LeviDIY

Blondesense said:


> BTW, does _your_ project require a permit/inspection? If so, they may fight your battle for you.


I'm chosing not to go that route. I'm not moving fixtures/electric, redoing faucet for shower.. and just prefer not to  But you do have a point, and perhaps a call over there "hypothetically" would help in the ammo. Maybe somehow the HOA has an exception, which would be good to know going in.


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## criveka

*bathroom ventilation*

I have a small bathroom with no window and it had no heater. I had a small cadet heater installed in the bathroom and keep it on a timer so that it drys out the moisture and helps prevent mold and mildew. 

A dehumidifier is also helpful for those who try to make their bath room a sauna! Most bathrooms are not made for long hot steamy showers so get your heat on, leave the door open if you have to and enjoy the reduction of moisture on your walls and floors. Hopefully the mold and mildew will be greatly reduced if not elimnated altogether.

The cadent heaters should be installed by a certified electrician. 

Hope this helps you.


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## jen_mom6

*Find an answer?*

We recently bought a home that has many add ons here and there. The bsement is a walk out on one side, on another side of the 3 rooms only one has an egress and the other two sides have no outside access or exposure. That is where they chose to put the half bathroom. We don't have to worry about moisture from a shower but it sure stinks! I was wondering what you came up with for your problem in hopes it may help us.

In our old house we needed to replace the vent hose for the dryer that ran under the house. It was going to be a while before hubby was going to be able to get under there to do it so I found an "indoor" vent system. It is a box that you have in your house and hook your dryer hose to it. Add some water to the bottom and it catches the lint, the moisture comes back into the house. It was rotten. We had to have the dehumidifier on all the time! Cost loads, our power bill was hidious! I saw the dehumidifier mentioned a couple of times but from experience, that is not a long term solution.

Any more from your HOA?


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## mary hennessy

*mary hennessy - bathroom ventilation and clean air.*

Hi, we have a basement bathroom and have the same problem. Our walls are three foot thick and the only pathway we have found means that condensation will run back down into the electrics and therefore too dangerous. But!! I have been looking at air sterile purifiers which extinguish the source of the smell and clean the air and some of them are silent. They are used in care homes and hospitals as well as food places. In the absence of anything else I am going to try out one of these. They cost from around £150.00


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## jimn

I don't understand how an HOA can have a rule which directly violates building codes and in the case of dryers is just plain stupid. The cost of moisture problems including mold overtime for indoor vented dryers is going to be pretty monumental. There are condensing dryers (popular in Europe) but the are small, expensive and can take a long time to do a land of laundry. Someone needs to shake up your HOA .


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## moore75

I have no ventilation in my bathroom either. During the winter, I hate using that particular one, because it's too cold. Also, three to four times a month I have to put hot water and bleach in the tub to keep mold from growing out of control. I would like to have this fixed. Is even possible to put ventilation in, or am I out of luck?


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