# Water Softener Problem



## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I have a Whirlpool WHES40 Water Softener. It had never really used any salt, and our water was hard, but not red. I cleaned the venturi, took the valve apart to check it and it had a lot of iron in it but nothing I could see that would cause the no salt usage. I then checked the drain... I found a piece of iron in it and once I turned on the system it immediately started draining.
> 
> Now, it will use salt, regenerate when the timer is set (2am) but after about 30 seconds of use at any tap, we get red/orange water. I'm not sure if I could have put the valve back together backwards, or off a bit but I know something is not right. I just need my water clear again! My Wife's hair is going from blond to red.... And I'm not sure I can deal with a redhead...


The unit cleans and later that morning when you use water it runs with a color for how long?
Is it every morning or any time of day ?
Or is it just when the unit has done a cleaning cycle?



drevil said:


> I also have a sediment filter that is installed after the softener... is that correct or should it be before the softener?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

It will run red for as long as I will let it. I haven't ran it for any period over 5 minutes. Unless in the shower and its not noticeable there. But all of my toilets are red.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

Start a regen cycle on the system, and when that is done in about 2-3 hours do that again for about 4 cycles.
Then try running the water after the unit goes through the extra cycles.
Could be that the system never cleaned and now that you fixed it the stuff that would have been flushed out in cleaning cycle is going to the house, so some extra cleaning cycles should take care of that.
Or when the unit gets to the backwash of its cycle... unplug it for 90 minutes or till water going to drain is clear and no the color that you are talking about.


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## kb3ca (Aug 22, 2008)

The sediment filter should be before the softener. Your resin bed may be iron fouled. You can buy a chemical at Sears to run through the softener to clean up the resin bed.


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

That's what I am thinking. I see red in the brine tank as well. 

I was going to pick up some "Iron Out" from lowes. Mix it 1 cup to 1/2 gallon of fresh water and dump it in the brine tank. Will this be sufficient? Also, should I put it in the brine float tube or just the tank?


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## kb3ca (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm not familiar with "iron out" but if it's made for water softeners it should be ok. The Sears product I use is made specifically for water softeners. Just put in in the brine well, not in the float tube. It goes in there anyway when the unit draws brine.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> That's what I am thinking. I see red in the brine tank as well.
> 
> I was going to pick up some "Iron Out" from lowes. Mix it 1 cup to 1/2 gallon of fresh water and dump it in the brine tank. Will this be sufficient? Also, should I put it in the brine float tube or just the tank?


Either way the iron out is going to get used when the system goes through the cycle.
Remember that there is really no water in the brine tank area between cycles, so if it is added to the salt area, some might hang out for the next cycle.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

kb3ca said:


> The sediment filter should be before the softener. Your resin bed may be iron fouled. You can buy a chemical at Sears to run through the softener to clean up the resin bed.


That stuff at sears?,,,, it is the same as the iron out. Sears just adds more to the price.
I have looked at what Sears uses and there is another Company and both of the products are the same as iron out. 
Iron out at say the True Value store is 1/3 the price, at least it is around here.


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

I just bought 5 lbs at Lowes for $14. CLR was $6, but I didn't want to run the risk of this not working. I will add this and recharge tonight and see if it helps. I will post an update when I have results.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> I just bought 5 lbs at Lowes for $14. CLR was $6, but I didn't want to run the risk of this not working. I will add this and recharge tonight and see if it helps. I will post an update when I have results.


If the salt level is low, really low you should be able to add some at that spot and send it into a cycle.
If you send it into a cycle now and wait till it is in the back wash and unplug the unit it will hold the valve in that spot till you plug it back in.
By letting it stay in the back wash for awhile you can check to find out when the water clears up from the color that you talk about to clear like it should be.
You could let it do it at 2 am, it should work, but might need another cycle or it may not..


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

I'll give it a go. When it is in backwash, will I be able to use the water or should I bypass the softener for that time span? 

Also, how long should I leave it in backwash unplugged? 

Thanks for the advice, I should have asked a long time ago. 

-Dr


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> I'll give it a go. When it is in backwash, will I be able to use the water or should I bypass the softener for that time span?
> 
> Also, how long should I leave it in backwash unplugged?
> 
> ...


You can still use water while it is in a cleaning cycle, I would limit the use to just the basics... 

Can you see the water as it is leaving the drain line ? 
When it first starts into the backwash I would check to see what the color is, and then say every 10 minutes until it is running clear.


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

Well, I tried the iron out and here are the results:

Mixed one cup to 1/2 gallon of water as per instructions and did a manual regen at about 6pm. Watched the initial drain and it was clear.
About 3 hours later I checked it and the brine tank was half full of water and up to about line 3 for salt. 

I tested the water at the bathroom and here is where it was strange.. It came out clear then brown back to clear then back to brown. So I went back downstairs and added another cup of iron out and did another manual regen. That was roughly 10pm. 

I am assuming it did the scheduled regen at 2am as well. 

When I woke this morning, the water in the bathroom (this is just where I am testing it it is bad at every tap and toilet) was clear for about 5 seconds, then it started to run brown again. This time no change, just brown. 

So, what next? I have attached a picture to show water color.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> Well, I tried the iron out and here are the results:
> 
> Mixed one cup to 1/2 gallon of water as per instructions and did a manual regen at about 6pm. Watched the initial drain and it was clear.
> About 3 hours later I checked it and the brine tank was half full of water and up to about line 3 for salt.
> ...


It is not pulling the brine like it should for start.
The brine fill and then brine draw and rinse take the first 90-100 minutes of the cycle.
It DID NOT regen again at 2 as the meter would not have counted any water...


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

So do I take the valve back apart? Or do I check the pickup in the brinewell? 

I made sure the float was all the way down and it looked un obstructed.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

Is the salt going down after a cleaning or regen cycle?


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

Hard to tell. It is definitely using salt. I added a 40lb bag of the Iron out salt from Lowes and it is pretty much gone. I do have the hardness set all the way up, as I wanted to make sure it was using as much as possible to get the water clear. But obviously that doesn't matter at this point.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

Start it into a cycle now and when that one is done, start another, and then another.. repeat with about 2.5 hours for each cycle over the next day you should be able to get a few back to back cleanings.
You have broke loose stuff with in the media bed and it is going to take some time to get out,, ie backwash's


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

Will do. Thanks for the advice. I have tomorrow off so I will do it as much as I can.


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## bbguy5 (Jan 3, 2011)

Completely drain your hot water heater as well. Im guessing there is some sediment buildup in there as well. as a previous poster said, filter before softener, not after.


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

Results: 

Water is almost back to normal. 

Now I am just trying to figure out how to get the smell/taste of the "iron out" out of the water. 

Thanks for all the advice!


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## bbguy5 (Jan 3, 2011)

What type of salt are you using? Maybe try switching to the morton salt rust remover until the problem is gone?


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## drevil (Feb 25, 2011)

That's what I am using. Not Morton, but I do get the Iron reducing salt.


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## Akpsdvan (Mar 25, 2010)

drevil said:


> Results:
> 
> Water is almost back to normal.
> 
> ...


Do one of 2 items, either A unplug the unit while it is brine draw slow rinse or B wait til it starts the backwash which is the next step in its regen cycle , either way let it set in either part of the cycle for extra time, brine draw rinse an extra 20-30 minutes or in the back wash for an extra 10 minutes to flush extra salt and iron out out of the media bed and down the drain.


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