# Payne Vs Goodman



## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I am need a new funace installed.

Here are the 2 options

Payne 80% 90000BTU

Goodman 2 Stage 80% 90000BTU

Which would be the better option?

I understand payne is a carrier. The goodman warrenty is transferable though.
Any help would be appreciated.
I need to make the decision soon.


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

Any other differences in warranty? Is that transferable warranty on all parts? Any other differences in the systems such as multi-speed versus variable speed fans? The 2 stage might provide more comfort but I'm unsure if its any more/less reliables. 

What's the price difference, and how do you feel about the installers? Even a bad installation can screw up a superior brand.

If these are the only two quotes, and especially if it is from the same contractor, I would get more from other brands. You might even want some quotes on 90+ AFUE models.

Yes Payne is Carrier.

Get ready for some heated responses that clearly prefer one brand over the other, and might even bash the brands.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

dac122 said:


> Any other differences in warranty? Is that transferable warranty on all parts? Any other differences in the systems such as multi-speed versus variable speed fans? The 2 stage might provide more comfort but I'm unsure if its any more/less reliables.
> 
> What's the price difference, and how do you feel about the installers? Even a bad installation can screw up a superior brand.
> 
> ...


 

The goodman is 10yr parts and labor
The payne is 10yr parts.
i am getting a 500 credit for my old furnace from HSA

the first contractor on the payne wants 

*1100 total out of pocket* for the modifacations and install: flu liner,gas line,gas shutoff,ductwork,disposal,flu pipe.

the other contractor goodman:
1400 for the furnance and install -500 
*900 total out of pocket*

I know someone who used the goodman installer and no problems.
They are both single speed.

thanks


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

Charges

80% Payne
PG8MAA042090disposal $ 75.00 gas line $ 95.00 ductwork $ 300.00 flu pipe $ 80.00 shut off valve $ 42.00 liner $ 600.00 Total Out of Pocket $1,192.00


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

Did anyone do a load calc to determine if these furnaces are the correct size, or are they just assuming what you had was adequate?


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I am sure the first contractor is just assuming.
I have a small 2 bedroom ranch house.

The second contractor said 90,000 - BTU should be fine


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

All furnaces do the same job. Heat your house.

Contractors are different and vary from company to company and from person to person.

The key is getting a good contractor with a good reputation. That is how I get jobs. The owners could care less what kind of furnace they get as long as it works and heats the house. What they want to know is will the company/person be back to service it when there is an issue.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes, But what which one would do a better job?

Payne single stage 80%
or
Goodman 2 stage 80%


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

Get other quotes and demand a load calc. Have them show you the load calc heat loss numbers that justify their recommended furnace. Also note that an oversized furnace can cost you more to operate than one that is better matched.

Also I noticed both quotes included a flu liner. If you get a 90+ AFUE furnace there will be no need to reline. The operationg savings and lower installation cost may make the more expensive unit more cost effective in the long run. Check your last gas bills rates including taxes to get a sense of your operational savings.


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

darman16 said:


> Yes, But what which one would do a better job?


By _better_ what do you mean? Which will provide more comfort, cost less to operate, be more reliable, cost less over 20 years, etc? 

As mentioned both will heat just fine (assuming they aren't over-sized), so you need to consider other factors.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Here's some news for you. The Goodman is superior quality than the Payne.

Some thing else too, check into a a two stage 95% with a Variable speed motor.

There is a $200.00 tax credit on them.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

By better i mean more efficent.

Im not going with a 90% because I only play on staying in the house for 5 -7 years. So the price probably does not justify.


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

darman16 said:


> By better i mean more efficent.
> 
> Im not going with a 90% because I only play on staying in the house for 5 -7 years. So the price probably does not justify.


80% is 80% - there is no difference. With a short time-frame your logic is good, but I would still look at a higher efficiency as the lower installation costs, operational savings, tax credit I forgot to mention, and added value to your home might be worth it. You might even have some state credits or state/local programs that also encourage higher efficiency units. Potential buyers do ask to see heating bills.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Just go with a straight 90% . Costs a little more but it would save you money and mak the home more marketable than with an 80%


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

From EnergyStar website:
improvements made during 2008 are not eligible for a tax credit.

So the tax credit would not apply.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

darman16 said:


> By better i mean more efficent.
> 
> Im not going with a 90% because I only play on staying in the house for 5 -7 years. So the price probably does not justify.


Think resale. More that likely it will increase the value of the home more that what you paid for it.

This "green" hysteria is driving up the prices of anything that can claim to be "green". With a 90+ furnace you can call your house "green" and will be a big selling point.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

darman16 said:


> From EnergyStar website:
> improvements made during 2008 are not eligible for a tax credit.
> 
> So the tax credit would not apply.


That's for the feds. Check your state.

Plus the "placed in service" date can be January 1st, 2009 which will get you a $150 tax credit if the furnace is 95% or better. Just get it installed in December and pay the bill in January. Placed in service is a rather nebulous term. In Oregon you can't get the tax credit ($350) until the bill is paid.

There are also rebates from most energy suppliers these days. I got another $200 rebate on my furnace.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I wish i could wait. but my funace is broke and it is about 40 degrees out


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

darman16 said:


> I wish i could wait. but my funace is broke and it is about 40 degrees out


What state are you in?


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

darman16 said:


> Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania


Here is the list of state incentives. Looks like they are all loans. Check through this and see if there is anything that pertains to you.

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=PA&RE=1&EE=1

Also call the state listed at the bottom to see about upgrading to a 95% furnace and if there are any tax credits.

Then call Pittsburgh and see if there have any local incentives. Also your gas company would be able to get you a lot of this information.

It is worth the time and energy to do this. It could save you a lot of money.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

They have not updated the site yet. The furnace tax credits have been reinstated


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

nice 

what forms do i need 

and what goodman models?

do you have a link to the website?


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

i think i am going to go with the 93% eff
so every bit will help


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

darman16 said:


> nice
> 
> what forms do i need
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are using a contractor to do this. Ask them where you get info on the rebates and tax credits. Also the gas company will tell you what the latest is.

Good call going with the 93% unit.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

i may be wrong but does a 93% qualify for a tax credit..


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

hvaclover said:


> i may be wrong but does a 93% qualify for a tax credit..


Most of the time yes. There are 90-94% and then 95% and higher. They pay more for higher efficiencies.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I cant find anything on the tax credits being good for 2008.
if they are im going to go with a 95%

2500 for the 2 stage 95%
2100 for the 93 %


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I just called enerystar. they said the tax credits only start in 2009


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Like I said, they reinstated them.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

I am going with the goodman 95% 2 stage.
1800 installed

thanks everyone for your help


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## dac122 (Sep 5, 2008)

darman16 said:


> I am going with the goodman 95% 2 stage.
> 1800 installed
> 
> thanks everyone for your help


Sounds good. Just make sure whoever is going to install that does a load calc to be sure you get the correct size model. I have a 92 AFUE 80K BTU furnace serving a 4 bedroom with sub-par duct-work setup. 

If that unit is too big you will be short-cycling causing comfort issues and shorten its lifespan. If that doesn't convince you having the unit closer in size may even knock down that price tag a little.

So demand a load calc (aka Manual J) and post back the results here so we can confirm the recommended unit.


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks Everyone,

I got my new 95% 2 stage Goodman furnace installed.
75000btu

works great.

Of corse though I dont need it this week. It's nice and warm here.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

darman16 said:


> I am going with the goodman 95% 2 stage.
> 1800 installed
> 
> thanks everyone for your help




Does anyone see anything wrong with this post:yes:


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## darman16 (Mar 21, 2008)

whats wrong?


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