# Black Forest Renovation



## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

My wife and I found our dream home in our dream town -- a typical German row house in the northern _Schwarzwald_. It's on the older side, and needs some work. I promised her I wouldn't get in over my head on upgrade projects, but each chunk of plaster I pull off seems to more completely convince me that it needs a near-total interior renovation. With a target move-in date of September 1st, I have 13 months. Wish me luck; I'm probably going to need it.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

Another German house! I can give you advice. dorf dude...


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> Another German house! I can give you advice. dorf dude...


Dude! You're the reason I'm here in the first place. I just joined, but have truly been following your thread for several months. a) my hat is off to you. Seriously. You've already taught me much. But,

b) you've probably inspired me to jump in beyond my abilities! Don't let my wife find out your address! I definitely look forward to your advice.

All the best...


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

One early lesson learned is that all waste has to be sorted in Germany. (I already knew that, but sometimes I'm a slow learner.) Construction waste (_bauschutt_) can't contain wood or other biodegradable products. The German equivalent of lath (for plaster) is corn straw; or was in the old days. It only took one wall of picking the straw out of the plaster *after* it was on the floor to convince me that there had to be a better way. A hammer-drill on _chisel-only_ mode, when held perpendicular to the wall, puts most of the plaster on the ground, and leaves most of the straw on the wall. Discovered it by luck.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

How far are you from 92271 post code?


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> How far are you from 92271 post code?


About 3 hours. I live and work in Heidelberg. I travel to Graf from time to time, though.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

Willward said:


> One early lesson learned is that all waste has to be sorted in Germany. (I already knew that, but sometimes I'm a slow learner.) Construction waste (_bauschutt_) can't contain wood or other biodegradable products. The German equivalent of lath (for plaster) is corn straw; or was in the old days. It only took one wall of picking the straw out of the plaster *after* it was on the floor to convince me that there had to be a better way. A hammer-drill on _chisel-only_ mode, when held perpendicular to the wall, puts most of the plaster on the ground, and leaves most of the straw on the wall. Discovered it by luck.


I went through the same thing! That looks soooooo familiar. What ever your estimate is add 4 times the time and 3 times the money. It will take much longer than expected. Many little things are going to crop up and slow you down. How far away are you from me? How old is the house? dorf dude...


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

My inner artist see's potential for that wall on the right. I would sand the beams and putz, stucco, the wall leaving the beams exposed. I want to see more pics! How many square meters is it? Once you get a few more posts then I can PM you.. dorf dude...


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> How old is the house?


The papers say built in 1925. However, we've found quite a few older newspapers used as floor levelers, or wall levelers, or stuffing underneath plaster, etc. One is from 1894. If the house was built in 1925, then someone was working with a stack of 30-year old newspapers. That seems odd to me.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Willward said:


> One early lesson learned is that all waste has to be sorted in Germany. (I already knew that, but sometimes I'm a slow learner.) Construction waste (_bauschutt_) can't contain wood or other biodegradable products. The German equivalent of lath (for plaster) is corn straw; or was in the old days. It only took one wall of picking the straw out of the plaster *after* it was on the floor to convince me that there had to be a better way. A hammer-drill on _chisel-only_ mode, when held perpendicular to the wall, puts most of the plaster on the ground, and leaves most of the straw on the wall. Discovered it by luck.


Man I am glad we don't have that law here in the US. The plaster, here in the southern part of the states, was mixed with horse hair as a binder, talk about a nightmare to separate. I noticed that the lath runs vertical there, here it ran horizontal with 1/4- 3/8 inch spaces between for the plaster to ooze through and bond. 

I am with DD, that wall on the left would look fantastic like he described doing. Exposing as much of the beams as possible would for sure be the plan for me.

About 15 years of my career was restoring the old antique homes of the early 1800s, DD isn't kidding about the time and cost of restoring, but it is soooo well worth the effort and expense.

I just remembered that one of the homes we restored, the cabinets were built of antique wood from the Black Forest, the patina was beautiful.


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

I see a small green dumpster in front of the house. Those things will get very expensive. I learned to get the taller ones. The pick up and delivery charges are the big expense, not the actual material inside. Same cost no matter the size of the dumpster. Some companies have them with a door on the front so you can get a wheelbarrow in. We really need to talk, dorf dude...


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> I see a small green dumpster in front of the house. Those things will get very expensive. I learned to get the taller ones. The pick up and delivery charges are the big expense, not the actual material inside. Same cost no matter the size of the dumpster. Some companies have them with a door on the front so you can get a wheelbarrow in. We really need to talk, dorf dude...


I think it's the largest one (5.5 qm) I'll get in there. I worked or talked with four different companies, and the next size up has a larger footprint. The dumpster and the trailer next to it literally fill my entire "front yard". In fact, the dumpster actually hangs a couple of inches into the street and also a bit over the neighbor's trash bin. It's a tight fit. I had to move the sandstone front stairs to get it in there at all, and here's a picture showing how I broke one of the large steps. Oops. On the upside, my container company doesn't charge by time; they don't care how long it sits between exchanges. That's good, because my work will be sporadic. I won't even get down there for at least another three weeks, for example.


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> My inner artist see's potential for that wall on the right. I would sand the beams and putz, stucco, the wall leaving the beams exposed.





jiju1943 said:


> I am with DD, that wall on the left would look fantastic like he described doing. Exposing as much of the beams as possible would for sure be the plan for me.


And I'm with you both. This particular wall is exterior, so I'm planning to cover it with insulation and plaster. But there are several interior walls with the same appearance and I am definitely looking forward to leaving the beams exposed. I like the look as well!


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## MarkusS (Aug 7, 2011)

Willward said:


> I think it's the largest one (5.5 qm) I'll get in there. I worked or talked with four different companies, and the next size up has a larger footprint. The dumpster and the trailer next to it literally fill my entire "front yard". In fact, the dumpster actually hangs a couple of inches into the street and also a bit over the neighbor's trash bin.


Try to get a dumpster with a lid so that you can use a padlock to lock the lid, especially if the dumpster is easily accessible from the street. There are some strange people who throw their waste into foreign dumpsters, saving themselves some time and money, contaminating your pre-sorted waste.

Greetings from southern Germany
Mark


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Willward said:


> And I'm with you both. This particular wall is exterior, so I'm planning to cover it with insulation and plaster. But there are several interior walls with the same appearance and I am definitely looking forward to leaving the beams exposed. I like the look as well!


Man, I don't know my right from my left.:whistling2:


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## Tonniiee (Aug 10, 2011)

Willward said:


> My wife and I found our dream home in our dream town -- a typical German row house in the northern _Schwarzwald_. It's on the older side, and needs some work. I promised her I wouldn't get in over my head on upgrade projects, but each chunk of plaster I pull off seems to more completely convince me that it needs a near-total interior renovation. With a target move-in date of September 1st, I have 13 months. Wish me luck; I'm probably going to need it.


Hi this is such a nice house. And I have liked its exterior a lot. May be I would copy it for my own. If you are planning to have this as your exterior , That would be really great....!!
Queen Anne Homes for Sale


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

MarkusS said:


> Try to get a dumpster with a lid so that you can use a padlock to lock the lid, especially if the dumpster is easily accessible from the street. There are some strange people who throw their waste into foreign dumpsters, saving themselves some time and money, contaminating your pre-sorted waste.
> Greetings from southern Germany
> Mark


Mark, thank you for the advice. I'm afraid you might be right. I've already had to pull out a little bit -- a discarded umbrella, wrappers from someone's lunch, etc. I'm hoping a tarp and a gentle but clear sign will help prevent anything major. If not, I may have to go the locking route.


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

Scoobie2 said:


> Hi this is such a nice house. And I have liked its exterior a lot. May be I would copy it for my own. If you are planning to have this as your exterior , That would be really great....!!


Right now, I'm planning to do little or nothing to the outside. I agree; I think it's okay. We'd love to have a balcony, especially since we have neither front nor back yard, but I think that's in the too hard and too expensive box. If you like the way the outside looks, I think you'll be happy to see that it won't look any different a year from now! (Except hopefully the dumpster will be gone and the front steps will be back in place


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

Gut it! Get ready to learn to putz. You will want a kalk putz inside. They also make it with an insulation built in but that cost's a lot more. If I had time I would run down and check it out.. dorf dude...


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## MarkusS (Aug 7, 2011)

shumakerscott said:


> If I had time I would run down and check it out.. dorf dude...


What about a southern Germany forum meeting with some beers in Heidelberg :thumbup:

Greetings
Mark


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

I might be able to find a Sat Eve free.


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## Willward (Aug 3, 2011)

After a few weeks away, was able to continue the demo over the Labor Day weekend and this week. The near wall in this photo had been completely plastered over, making for one *dark* kitchen behind it. I think it's opened up (and lightened up) nicely. Am planning to leave this as open as possible, with the beams exposed. The wall farther back was the original back of the house. I've opened it up also, and it looks out and down into what will be the dining room, part of a 1950s addition to the back of the house.


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