# Pouring Patio Slab and Post Footings Question



## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Hello All,

I am going to put in a covered patio. Question is, what is the preferred mthod of putting in post footings between the two methods (after the slab pour versus before the slab pour ). 

*Method 1 (After pouring the patio slab)* 
Pour the concrete for the patio slab and after the concrete drys for a couple of days, drill and place anchor bolts and place Simpson Strong Ties for your posts. (See image Method 1 Below)

*Method 2 (Before pouring the patio slab) *
Before pouring the patio slab, create forms for the post(s) and first pour the concrete for just the post footings using "Method 2 Hardware" noted below, and let dry, and then pour the main patio slab. So this method you will have a number of footings set higher than the patio slab that the post will sit on top of.

Method 1 Hardware:










Method 2 Hardware before patio concrete slab:










Thanks,
Moe


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

#1 But instead of drilling later put the anchor bolts in the slab when it is poured.


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Thanks Joed, 

Can you expand as to the benefits of this approach versus the other method?

Thanks,
Moe


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

average_male said:


> Thanks Joed,
> 
> Can you expand as to the benefits of this approach versus the other method?
> 
> ...



You don't have to drill anything.
The anchor has a 90 degree turn in it for better holding force.
Even if the anchor SHOULD work loose in a wind storm, it's still going to hold things down... whereas a drilled anchor will lose it's effectiveness as soon as it loses any grip on the concrete.


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Willie T said:


> You don't have to drill anything.
> The anchor has a 90 degree turn in it for better holding force.
> Even if the anchor SHOULD work loose in a wind storm, it's still going to hold things down... whereas a drilled anchor will lose it's effectiveness as soon as it loses any grip on the concrete.


 
Willie, 

Thanks for your input. However, I am not sure which method you are in support of, sounds like method #2. Not sure what you mean by "90 degree turn in it". Can you expand on that?

Thanks,
Moe


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Yes, #2. These anchor bolts come in many lengths to suit your needs.


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Ah, interesting. So that's how it's done.

Thanks Willie!


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

This is how you suspend the bolt in the concrete pour.

Drill a long ( 12") piece of plywood with a hole the bolt will just fit through.

Put the bolt through, and slip on the washer, then run the nut down to give you the height of thread sticking above the form board you desire. (Be accurate here) Remember, you're measuring from the BOTTOM of the plywood.

Nail the plywood to the top of the form board in the correct (measured) position........ (I'm only showing a single form board actually attached for this corner so you can see how the bolt hangs.)

For side form boards, you simply make the plywood a little wider so the bolt is out far enough to be where you want it.

That orange thing in the background is nothing more than an example of how you would drill the plywood.
*********************
There is a slightly more complicated way of suspending that bolt, using two nuts, one above the plywood, and one below it. But this method will do for you. Just be sure the bolt is vertical when the pour is done.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

One thing about doing this "bolt" method is that there is usually some "play" allowed in the hole/s in the bottom of your "method #1" hardware.

"Method #2" insists that you be 100% accurate when you place that bracket in the concrete. That is sometimes hard to do.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

a masterful explanation by a true craftsman, willie :thumbup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

By the way, some people will tell you to just pour the concrete, then simply poke the bolt down into the wet concrete, and "joog" it around a little till it stays put. This will do fine for very rough work, but not for hitting holes in future bracket installations. Besides, it is not accepted workmanship at all... it has a tendency to create voids down inside the concrete. Best to measure accurately, and hang the bolts.


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Willie,

While reading other posts, I found your other postings had a wealth of information laid-out in a very clear and detailed manner. So thank for providding the same level of input to my question. It's greatly appreciated.

Also, where do you get those figures? Did you create those?

Thanks,
Moe


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

itsreallyconc said:


> a masterful explanation by a true craftsman, willie :thumbup:


I learned formwork early... on parking garages and bridges. :wink:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

average_male said:


> Willie,
> 
> While reading other posts, I found your other postings had a wealth of information laid-out in a very clear and detailed manner. So thank for providding the same level of input to my question. It's greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...


Helping is why many of us are here.

The picture of the bolt came directly from a Google "Image" search of the www.

The other stuff is just some simple drawings I throw together with Google SketchUp.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

You have to decide what you are looking for in the two different post bases. #1 could be a non-treated post sitting on 1" high plate to protect from water splash (check with your local Building Department), or a p.t. post. This design has little or no resistance to lateral (side) forces. The hold-down in a high wind is rated from 550# to 2100# using nails or bolts. #2 has to be a pressure treated post as it will sit on the metal plate on the slab. This has the advantage of side resistance for stiffening. It has a rating for hold-down of 4200# minimum with bolts. So if you are trimming out the posts, #1 would be much easier than the bolts, washers, nuts and side flanges in #2. Remember to thicken the edges of the slab at the posts for load, possibly using a vapor barrier (6mil. plastic) under slab, possibly 2" insulation at perimeter (cold locales), and good gravel base underneath with the soil sloped for drainage.
Be safe, Gary


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

Hi GBR,

Thanks for the details. As for method #2 , the Simpson Strong Tie does have a model that gives you the same 1" metal bracket (see image below)as the hardware noted in Method #1. So with this model, one can go P.T. or non-P.T. However based on what Willie said, I will mostlikely forgo using this as its a bit more technical.



> Remember to thicken the edges of the slab at the posts for load


Yes, great tip. I never considered that. 

Thanks again GBR,
Moe


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

No reason to shy away from any particular installation. Just be sure to get whatever you put in straight, plumb, and square.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Willie T said:


> The other stuff is just some simple drawings I throw together with Google SketchUp.


Simple drawings :no:....I've tried Google sketchup....not used to using it


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## sulkair (Jan 16, 2015)

Gentlemen. Resurrecting an old thread here. Please take a look at these pictures. 

My home is still under warranty. Do I need to have them come out and re-do these porch columns? I took off some siding at the bottom to find water logged beams.

I'm certain the posts are secured to galvanized post bases, but they are under the slab, attached to the footings. They obviously just poured the slab higher up and let the concrete flow right up against the beam.

I'm concerned water will continue to attack these beams.

Anyway to seal this area against water?


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## average_male (May 30, 2009)

To my novice eye, seems like a bad design. I'd check to see if that is to code for your city.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> Gentlemen. Resurrecting an old thread here. Please take a look at these pictures.


Ayuh,.... Page 2 of a thread that ain't yer's,...

Don't expect many answers, as most will be answerin' the original poster's questions,....

You'll do Much Better by startin' a thread of yer own,....


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## sulkair (Jan 16, 2015)

Thanks Bondo.

Anyway to have this deleted? I can re-post in a new thread. Don't want to upset anyone by double posting.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

sulkair said:


> Thanks Bondo.
> 
> *Anyway to have this deleted?* I can re-post in a new thread. Don't want to upset anyone by double posting.


Naw,... When we quit postin' in it, it'll sink back into the archives,....

No worries, just want You to get the answers ya need,....


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