# Sump pump wiring



## dkerlee (Dec 2, 2013)

A 0.5hp electric motor can draw 2000 watts, I'll assume it's 120v regular plug on the pump, 16.6 amps. There should be a label on the pump specifying it's draw in amps or watts. 

amps = 2000W / (1 × 120V) = 16.667A

Receptacles, 110-volt Air Conditioners, Sump Pumps, Kitchen Appliances
20 Amps
12 Gauge wire

Equally as important as the breaker is the wire connecting the outlet to your panel. 14-2 is too small for even a single sump pump.

If you've got a 15amp breaker, chances are the wire it's attached to is small 14-2 wire. In that case, you should NOT put a larger breaker in there. A 20amp breaker is not safe with 14 gauge wire.

I think you mentioned two sump pumps? Then you'd get 34amps, and would need a 40amp breaker with 8 gauge wire. 8 gauge wire is expensive and fat and difficult to work with. I'd suggest using a different pump system. Oh, or you could run the pumps on separate circuits. 


https://www.thespruce.com/matching-wire-size-to-circuit-amperage-1152865
https://www.generatorjoe.net/html/electricmotor.html


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

12/2 it has since its a 20 amp.
Ill look at specs on both .


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

The main Zoeller 1/2 H.P. sump pump in my CS has a running amp draw of 10 amps. So two 1/2 HP on a 20 amp circuit= not good.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

I have mine on two different circuits, just as a fail-safe.

That said, I think it's highly unlikely that they'll both draw full locked-rotor current at the same moment.

Even assuming they did, maybe an electrician here can tell us whether a 20A breaker will trip on just a momentary 34A spike. My understanding is that there's a little bit of a delay built in.

There's always the experimental method. Leave the 20A breaker off and add enough water to trigger both pumps, then flip the breaker on. If it trips, go to plan "B."


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

A sump pumps LRA aside, a 1/2 H.P. sump pump will pull a running amp draw of 10 amps, within one amp + or - ... Some of the cheaper plastic body pumps may be lower amp draw, but my cast 1/2 HP Zoeller pulls ten amps running dead on. 

If the pumps do ever run simultaneously, one is hoping the 20 amp breaker will hold for that 5-10 second duration of having a 20 amp load on it.

And if the OP's pumps are protecting a gas furnace in a crawlspace or a basement with carpet and furnishings, is it REALLY worth the risk of putting both pumps on one circuit ?


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

Usually the whole reason for having two sump pumps is that you really 
want to avoid failure. If that's the case it only makes sense to have the 
pumps on separate circuits regardless of amperage. 
It's not uncommon to go still further have and have separate outlet drain 
pipes. 
Having redundancy in only one part of the water removal system often 
turns out to be short sighted.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

A breaker can hold 125% overload for two hours depending on the magnitude of the rise. It does not trip at 20.1 amps.


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## Shadow99 (Nov 3, 2017)

As others said, even if you could have both on 1 circuit, it wouldn't be good practice for this application.

Without the nameplate data, code requires 9.8 Amps per 1/2hp motor.
That puts you just shy of 20A.
Conductors are sized for 125%, so you can't have 2 on this circuit.

If you are adding a second circuit, a 15A on 14awg would be fine.


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Im just gonna run a 2nd circuit 12/2, 20 amp gfci breaker to 2nd one.
It shows 9.7 running amp an 25.9 start up .
Is that startup ok on 20 amp with 12/2 or can that trip breaker?


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## Shadow99 (Nov 3, 2017)

hidden 1 said:


> Im just gonna run a 2nd circuit 12/2, 20 amp gfci breaker to 2nd one.
> It shows 9.7 running amp an 25.9 start up .
> Is that startup ok on 20 amp with 12/2 or can that trip breaker?


That will be fine.
It would take about 10 - 30 seconds to trip at that level of O/C

Hopefully the motor is started after that long :biggrin2:


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Thanks!
One last question.
I know they make gfci w trip alarms for recepticles but do they have breakers that will do that ?


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Deleted .


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## Fishbulb28 (Jul 8, 2016)

hidden 1 said:


> I know they make gfci w trip alarms for recepticles but do they have breakers that will do that ?


Not exactly, at least not as a drop in functional equivalent. Some GFCI breaker types are available with auxiliary or alarm contacts which may used to trip a separate alarm. Which brand and type of panel do you have?


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## dkerlee (Dec 2, 2013)

https://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/Rel...pn6BY1mdiFjJ0Hh70-8UUr2vpgJvp8J0aAhNUEALw_wcB

Google search!


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

I have the eaton breakers but gfci is siemans.
Id love that option so i know to reset it in case of a trip or if it goes off during high water.

Of coarse a battery back up is best but for now id like that if available in a breaker .
Its a pain to get into crawlspace .
Thanks


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

Definitely separate circuits for each pump.

Also you might want to get a sump pump alternator. It is a switching device that causes the other pump to be used after each cycle. That way it isn’t always one pump running ( because lower float switch kicks in b4 the other one.

An alternator will spread pump wear evenly across the two pumps. It’s also a fundamental practice for reliable system design is that backup units get exercised. There are millions of battery backed sump pumps that won’t work in their time of need because the owner never tested them or maintained the battery.






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## Shadow99 (Nov 3, 2017)

hidden 1 said:


> I have the eaton breakers but gfci is siemans.
> Id love that option so i know to reset it in case of a trip or if it goes off during high water.
> 
> Of coarse a battery back up is best but for now id like that if available in a breaker .
> ...


I'll answer the easy question first !
I've never seen an audible alarm for a breaker.
I don't know if NEC required the sump on a dedicated cct, if not you could add a second receptacle that is accessible for you, and use the plug in option. (Sump pump is not a dedicated cct up here, but we have to AFCI the cct if it isn't)

Now the fun one :biggrin2:
Eaton breakers are UL listed for Siemens panels, but afaik, Siemens aren't listed for Eaton. (Funny eh ! )
Technically, there are few panels that 'warranty' other mfrs breakers in their panels.

I don't do resi service, so I just buy the brand I need for the panel.

I'd say the Siemens is fine there, but some will say it's an insurance issue.
Hot topic, I think that's why everyone went silent :biggrin2:


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## hidden 1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Thats been there years.I didnt install it ..oddly a liscensed electrician did,i dont know him .later if selling ill switch it to eaton.
I regraded the area so i can use same pump.

On the audible alarm I guess they havent invented this yet..lol.though they have it on a outlet ..


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## Gregsoldtruck79 (Dec 21, 2017)

hidden 1 said:


> Thats been there years.I didnt install it ..oddly a liscensed electrician did,i dont know him .later if selling ill switch it to eaton.
> I regraded the area so i can use same pump.
> 
> On the audible alarm I guess they havent invented this yet..lol.though they have it on a outlet ..


A "power off" receptacle alarm is o.k., but does nothing to tell the owner if the SP is not working. SP's can have many ways of failing and one never knows it, until the water rises to the flooding stage when it is needed the most. 

So I built sort of a "involved" SP system in our CS, using two SP tanks and 3 SP's with one being a back up pump for the main SP. I built a piped in water fill system to the SP's tanks to fill them manually from my outside wall hydrant, without needing to go under the floor. When the tanks are filled, it exercise's the SP's and does a "live" test on them to be sure they work when needed. I watch as my "test" water is pumped from the tanks out in to my yard.

The system was a lot of work for me to do, but at my age I do not want to crawl under our house too often while testing SP's , I wanted to be sure the 3 SP's work when needed, as our gas furnace ($$$) will go under water a foot, if none of the SP's work when needed the most. 

The 120 buzzer alarms in the pics that I wired in, let me know which pump is allowing too high of water level in its tank. To activate the alarm buzzer, I just bought a tethered float switch and put it in the SP tank. I set it at a water level too high to be normal, letting me know I have a pump failure when it rises and then closes and makes the alarm circuit.

I wired these SP high water alarms using my CS lighting circuit for their power supply. Because if the breaker to the SP unknowingly trips, and the alarm is wired in to the SP circuit= no alarm. The whole purpose of a pump "fail alarm " is then defeated. 

The alarm in the pic marked "back up" means my main SP is not pumping and the high water level float I put in it, has started the back up pump, which should be running. Alert time it is, to go see why the main SP is not pumping and to see if the back up pump is actually running or not.

I also have the back up pump wired to where if the power is off during a heavy rain storm, I can unplug it and then plug it in to my portable gas genset without ever going under the floor.


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

They make gfci receptacles which have internal audible alarm. I have one on my beer fridge in the garage. Can’t let those get warm!

The alarm is just if it trips from a ground fault and not over current though. So it would be useful for a ground fault trip but a lot of people feel a gfci on a sump pump is just a bad idea (protects the pump from electrocuting itself but causes a $25,000 basement flood). Also a locked or worn pump bearing could result in a breaker trip so no audible for that.

The plug in device mentioned earlier might in fact be better.






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## Fishbulb28 (Jul 8, 2016)

hidden 1 said:


> I have the eaton breakers but gfci is siemans.


So is it an Eaton panel?

Eaton BR GFCI breakers are one of the ones available with alarm contacts, part numbers GFTCB120W1 or GFTCB120W2. The W1 breaker closes the contacts only when the breaker trips. The W2 model closes the contacts if the breaker is off for any reason.

You won't find these at Home Depot or Amazon. You'll need to call (yes, call, that thing your phone does) an electrical distributor if you want to go this route. A pair of sump pump level alarms might be a better choice as they'll warn you if the pumps fail for any reason.


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## CaptTom (Dec 31, 2017)

High water alarms are pretty common in boats. They sell electronic sensors with no moving parts, or you can just use a float switch. You can even get a fancy panel with a light and horn. Of course, those are usually 12VDC systems, but you can use any 120VAC float switch and appropriate noisemaker. Set it up so it triggers just a little higher than the main pump(s).

Another trick is the have a backup pump rigged a little higher than the main pumps, wired to an alarm. Not only will it sound the alarm, but start pumping if the others fail.

As for 12VDC battery back-up pumps, remember that it takes a lot of power to move water. You'd need a big battery bank, a good charger, and a powerful pump to even come close to what a 120VAC sump pump can do. And the "GPM" ratings on them assume a short, smooth pipe with very little rise, so you'll never actually move as much water as they claim.


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## Shadow99 (Nov 3, 2017)

There's an app for all that :biggrin2:
Comes with water sensors too !

https://store.aquatechnologygroup.c...m-wireless-breaker-trip-alarm/#tabs-32406-0-4


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## curiousB (Jan 16, 2012)

Consider a sump pump alternator to spread wear across both pumps. He's a DIY version..


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