# Oil Change Question



## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

About a month ago I ran a tank of gas with Sea Foam fuel injector/throttle body cleaner. I changed the plugs in my truck just before as well as flushed and filled with fresh coolant the radiator. 

I did this work about halfway through oil changes. I had the oil changed in my truck yesterday and it came out black. It never has done that before and I was only about 400 miles over the 3000 mile limit so the question is would the engine cleaner cause that oil to be black? Did it pick up all the gunk and deposit it into the oil?

Thanks.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

honestly, i am not sure what you are describing. but as a years long Seafoam user, it definitely caught my eye.

i am ASSUMING that you had your oil changed, as usual, at just above 3000 miles. it came out too dark for what you expected it to be? well, it depends on oil. some oils get burnt out fast. some oils turn dark yet still function as a lubricant well. it's not the color, it's the grit in oil that ruins engines. 

i drive with Seafoam IN OIL for 5-600 miles before i change that oil, and it does not make it any darker or lighter. tankful of gas with Seafoam definitely wouldn't have done it either. 

i have 2 guesses for you.

1. you had substandard oil and it simply burnt out fast. keep in mind, what you see on dipstick and what you see coming out of drain hole is very different. dipstick dilutes oil layer and it looks brighter than what you drain.
2. you have oil blow buy burn out. hot exhaust passes past piston rings and slams into oil in crankcase, happens.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

What did the old plugs look like?


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

ukrkoz said:


> honestly, i am not sure what you are describing. but as a years long Seafoam user, it definitely caught my eye.
> 
> i am ASSUMING that you had your oil changed, as usual, at just above 3000 miles. it came out too dark for what you expected it to be? well, it depends on oil. some oils get burnt out fast. some oils turn dark yet still function as a lubricant well. it's not the color, it's the grit in oil that ruins engines.
> 
> ...


 
Pennzoil 10w-30 and it was gritty. As soon as I changed it the motor started running almost like new again, like butter as they say.

I think it was about six or seven weeks ago that I had the oil changed before this last time. A few weeks later is when I changed the plugs and about a few days after that is when I ran the tank of gas with the Sea Foam so the plugs and oil change at about 1000 miles in and the Sea Foam added a few hundred miles after that and then another 2000+ miles until I recently had the oil changed again, when the old stuff came out black which it has never done in the past going on four years of ownership. This was the first time I've ever used an engine cleaner in this truck, the miles are piling on.

What do you mean by blow by? Is that a part and if so how much do you think it'll run me to have that fixed.? I ask as that caught my attention as the truck doesn't seem to take off very good any longer, for the past four or five months I've noticed this. It used to take off like a rocket, now I just let it get up to speed on it's own so I don't do any damage. Tranny is fine and I need to have the catalytic converter checked but this blow by seems like a very good reason as well, if it can affect the performance. 

Will I know next time I change the oil if it's black a bit more? I haven't and won't run any cleaner in the tank this month so that could be a possibility.

Thanks.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Bigplanz said:


> What did the old plugs look like?


 
Not too shabby, in all honesty. Nothing was burned beyond what any normal plug would look like. No oil and the metal was ll there on all the plugs so nothing was burned off. 

When I first changed the plugs in it way back when after some months of ownership, a few of the plugs were really noticeably burned up and rightfully so the truck was not running very smoothly. Ever since then I've expected to find the plugs half 'eaten' like back then but it's never been like that since.

I'm guessing it was long overdue for a tune up even before the time I purchased it.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

ok, let me clarify something for everyone.
back in 2002 I bought new Honda CR-V. At that time, I was driving average 1200 miles a week, and put 54 000 miles on that car year one. Hence, at 3000 miles oil changes philosophy, I have learned a thing or 2 about oils, filters, and cleaners, doing oil changes every 3-4 weeks.. 
Personally, I respect Pennzoil and will not call it a bad oil. In regular oils, I prefer Quacker State though.
But anyhow. Every car takes oil a little bit. You can not seal everything perfectly, there will always be micro leaks here and there. Plus, some oil gets past rings into combustion chamber and burns out there. Some say, half a dipstick per 1000 miles oil consumption is ok. Some say more, some say less, but it happens. It's normal, so to speak.
What is not normal, is excessive oil consumption, or oil burn out. Usually, it is a sign of engine components loosening up, and oil either getting into combustion chambers too much, or exhaust getting into oil. Rings are not sealing too good, exhaust blows by into crankcase, burns oil faster. Oil gets into combustion chambers. Valve stem seals are worn out, allowing oil to drip into chambers. Mitsubishes are bad about this. All of this can be called a blow by burn out, as either exhaust, or oil blows by sealing points. 
Seafoam is ABSOLUTELY safe to use. I can vouch for it, as I used it for years and on all cars we owned. Drove on it in crankcase for 2000 miles once, out of curiosity. But what might have happened, it might have loosened some crud that, usually, works as a plug for micro cracks in gaskets/seals, and now oil or exhaust goes by. That's why folks will always tell you - be careful with high mileage cars. Cleaning them sometimes takes opposite effect. I Seafoam my cars every oil change, so I do not have any issues with a bunch of stuff coming loose right away. Mine are clean.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

also, you say "truck". that's a vague definition. Cars that have sprk plugs located in the uppermost center of combustion chambers, resulting in deep plug wells in valve gasket cover, suffer from the above mentioned issues due to plug seals and gaskets go bad. Once again, Mitsubishes (and Hondas) are bad about this. 
If you have g'ol GM engine, you should have none of those issues, but folks can call a Highlander a truck, and it does have spark plug wells.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

If the plugs show normal wear and the engine doesn't lope at idle, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)




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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

Being an ac tech and a sub contractor at that I'm putting an average of 145 miles a day on her. I put 187 yesterday.


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## Marty1Mc (Mar 19, 2011)

ukrkoz said:


> What is not normal, is excessive oil consumption, or oil burn out. Usually, it is a sign of engine components loosening up, and oil either getting into combustion chambers too much, or exhaust getting into oil. Rings are not sealing too good, exhaust blows by into crankcase, burns oil faster. Oil gets into combustion chambers. Valve stem seals are worn out, allowing oil to drip into chambers. Mitsubishes are bad about this. All of this can be called a blow by burn out, as either exhaust, or oil blows by sealing points.


Well said and very well explained! I also use Castrol. The shop I used to frequent raced bikes and found 0 breakdown when using Castrol GT (it was before synthetic was available).





ukrkoz said:


> Seafoam is ABSOLUTELY safe to use. I can vouch for it, as I used it for years and on all cars we owned. Drove on it in crankcase for 2000 miles once, out of curiosity. But what might have happened, it might have loosened some crud that, usually, works as a plug for micro cracks in gaskets/seals, and now oil or exhaust goes by. That's why folks will always tell you - be careful with high mileage cars. Cleaning them sometimes takes opposite effect. I Seafoam my cars every oil change, so I do not have any issues with a bunch of stuff coming loose right away. Mine are clean.


While I don't use additives on my motors, especially on my turbo charged motors, I use 100% synthetic instead and change often. I agree, however, that Seafoam is very safe. It also works well when used to clean out the throttle bodies and intakes by drawing it in through vacuum ports, etc. 

The "high mileage cars" statement is dead on. The same thing applies to transmissions. Don't get the transmission flush that will "clean out" the dirt in the tranny. Most likely it will dislodge it and it will find its way to the valve body assembly where it will cause the tranny to fail.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

ok, so it's a Ford. well, it is what it is. 
1. does it take oil? meaning, does oil level drop too fast comparing to "half a dipstick mark per 1000 miles" standard?
2. if it does NOT, convert your truck to synthetic oil. I'd start with semisynth blend, just to give it a try. It is more liquidy and is prone to sipping through micro cracks that a regular oil will not go through.

when oil changes every 3 weeks finally got to me, I looked into synth oil and switched to RoyalPurple. 10 000 miles between oil changes was a god send. 

now I use Amsoil almost exclusively. I change oil, depending on vehicle, anywhere between 12 and 15 000 miles. All cars run like Swiss watches. no, like Swiss chronographs. 

as of "oil looked dark" I'd second the other poster. don't worry about it. Run can of Seafoam through crankcase several hundred miles before oil change, flush with flushing oil, refill with Amsoil or RP, use Mobile 1 or Purolator filter, be happy.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

She doesn't burn oil or leak oil. Always full at every change, the old oil. Yeah, the underneath of the motor has stains but you now what I mean, nothing that would need attention in any way. No drips on the concrete whatsoever. Not even the valve covers leak and this is all original, never had any work done to her. 155+k at the moment.

I've run a high mileage (75,000+) synthetic blend in her before without anything noticeable in performance happening although I'm sure it was better for her, maybe I'll try that Royal Purple you're talking about.


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## STL B. (Oct 29, 2010)

> ok, so it's a Ford. well, it is what it is.


Yea ok my wife and I own fords with over 300k between two vehicles and have only replaced a sensor here and a coil there.............My wife also owns an acura with 100k on it, it's the biggest POS ever built I think that it cost 10 cents a mile in repair cost ($600 steering pumps/$300 motor mounts, trans,axles) I think you can keep the hondas.




> I've run a high mileage (75,000+) synthetic blend in her before without anything noticeable in performance happening although I'm sure it was better for her, maybe I'll try that Royal Purple you're talking about.


RP isnt worth the cost $8-$9qt in your case but you can get mobile1 by the case at sams for a good price........run it for 6k-7k and dump it you'll save a bundle over RP. You should try mobile1 or K-N oil filters their only a few $$ extra.

It used to be popular to drain your oil and refill with 50/50 mix of oil and kerosene and let the engine idle for a few min. then drain and fill with fresh oil. It does a hell of a job cleaning out the crankcase, maybe worth a try.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

oh my...

if you carefully read my posts, *I have been through every single oil out there on the market*. NOTHING stands to the task as well as Royal Purple or Amsoil do. So yes, they cost more. You also get what you paid for. Also, at 15 000 miles oil changes, it is more cost efficient to use Amsoil, which is GUARANTEED for 25 000 miles, than do even 5 000 mile oil changes. But seriously, let's not turn this into another opinions battle. It is not worth it.

Doc, I simply do not have heart to refer to pickups as "she". I know it's kosher with grammer, but my Silverado is a "he". It's man thing. 

I had minor sippage around oil pan gasket on my Silvie. Minor. What I did, was to get under, use a ton of brake cleaner to remove any oily residue along gasket perimeter, and then covered it all with red gasket silicone. Been over a year, it's bone dry everywhere.

Reason I suggested partial conversion is to check if oil consumption will not go up. It's not fiseable to add synth oil, due to cost, to keep level up. So, you go synth blend first, and watch oil level. If it stays where it's supposed to, then next time go full power, full synth. 

Amsoil is not easy to come by. I buy mine at local Chevron gas station, they usually have it in stock. If you have it proven that truck is OK with it, then you can buy it online, it's cheaper. 

Like I said before, before planned oil change, pour can of Seafoam into crankcase and drive on it for about 500 miles. Seafoam is a petrolate product, 100% competible with any oil. Driving on it, you have high pressure environment when it goes into tiniest places, dissolves and flushes out gunk, and loosens gunk off piston rings. Next, what I do, I go to Walmart and buy a gallon of cheapest oil in proper weight I can find there, usually - Supertech. I drain oil from engine, refill with Supertech, and run engine for 15 minutes, with occasional rev and hold at 2500. or you can simply drive around. Drain that - that was your flush oil (kerosine in engine??) - then remove filter and replace it, refill with good oil. That's it. 

I guarantee you will be pleasantly suprised with how well your engine will sound therafter. I have 8 000 miles on Silvie after last oil change, warmed up - you still have to get very close to the truck to actually hear engine run. 

Here's my opinion. You need to experiment. Some engines do better with Amsoil. Some do with RP. Maybe yours will do better with M1. None of mine did (we currently have 6 cars in the family, and I use synth oils since 2001, on total of probably dozen cars since then). But no matter what you find, 3000 mile oil changes is so retarded with new engines, that it is still being pushed only for one reason - make Jiffy lubes and dealers richer. There is no other good reason for it. I am not mentioning reasons of the nature " daddy did it that way, I keep doing it that way". Or other sentimental stuff. New engines and new oils are beyond this.


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## STL B. (Oct 29, 2010)

> kerosine in engine??


Yup it's a great solvent I know lots of people who have been doing it for years



You would recommend someone switch to a full synthetic oil in a vehicle with over a 150k on it ?


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Doc Holliday said:


> About a month ago I ran a tank of gas with Sea Foam fuel injector/throttle body cleaner. I changed the plugs in my truck just before as well as flushed and filled with fresh coolant the radiator.
> 
> I did this work about halfway through oil changes. I had the oil changed in my truck yesterday and it came out black. It never has done that before and I was only about 400 miles over the 3000 mile limit so the question is would the engine cleaner cause that oil to be black? Did it pick up all the gunk and deposit it into the oil?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, it could do that, and for a number of reasons. Bottom line... I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you (I can go into detail if you really want me to). 

If I were you, I'd simply keep a very close eye on the color of my engine oil during this next cycle or two. Black oil isn't necessarily a big deal. If it smells burnt, that's a different story.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Personally, I think Amsoil & Royal Purple are more hype than anything else. (I had a guy at a parts store recently tell me he gets 10% more power out of his car with Royal Purple. Pure BS.) They're perfectly good synthetic oils, for sure. But they're really pushing the name. 35 years ago, Amsoil was definitely ahead of the curve. But we now have a whole host of good synthetic oils to choose from.

One of the problems with Amsoil is that, when it came out decades ago, they were making absolutely outrageous claims about its performance - that 25,000 mile guarantee, for instance. It's true that many oils will stand up that long, under certain circumstances. But the oil isn't the problem. It's all the dirt & crap that gets into it - especially on a farm, like where I grew up. You CANNOT keep oil clean that long. Under any conditions but the cleanest and purest ones, you'd be a complete fool to go 25,000 miles between oil changes.


After many years of running synthetic & synthetic blend oils in everything from trucks to lawn-mowers, I've noticed several things...

1. If you have brittle gaskets or seals, synthetic will leak worse than dino. If you run synthetic oil for the first time in an engine that never leaked oil, it will sometimes "find" places to leak.

2. You can switch back and forth, from synthetic to dino oils, with no problems. I'm not sure why you would, but you can.

3. If you live where winters get brutally cold, synthetic oil lets the engine turn over MUCH easier in extreme cold. Much better on those frigid mornings.

4. I'd never recommend using synthetic oil in an engine that leaks or consumes oil. It just costs too much. Besides, when you have to add oil all the time (every couple hundred mies) you're "changing" your oil constantly anyway.


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## STL B. (Oct 29, 2010)

I run royal purple in my wife and moms cars and cant say anything bad about it but I put them on synthetic before they hit 30k miles. I look at it as a sound investment on our investments........does it really matter maybe.....maybe not. I know when synthetic oils first came about they were junk that caused more problems than they were worth but times have changed. I agree with you 100% about dirt in the oil.........thats one thing you cant change even if you buy the best filters in the world...your oil gets dirty. I know a few people who use lucas and have sent it in for analyis and it always comes back with over 85% original viscosity but you'll never catch me running anything past 6k.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

STL B. said:


> I run royal purple in my wife and moms cars and cant say anything bad about it but I put them on synthetic before they hit 30k miles. I look at it as a sound investment on our investments........does it really matter maybe.....maybe not. I know when synthetic oils first came about they were junk that caused more problems than they were worth but times have changed. I agree with you 100% about dirt in the oil.........thats one thing you cant change even if you buy the best filters in the world...your oil gets dirty. *I know a few people who use lucas and have sent it in for analyis *and it always comes back with over 85% original viscosity but you'll never catch me running anything past 6k.


When we were doing our lawn-mowing business, I ran straight 30W dino oil in our mowers, and added Lucas Synthetic Stabilizer. After I started doing that, I never had an engine failure. It might or might not have had anything to do with the Lucas stuff, but hey, for $14 per bottle it was well worth it. Kinda hard to argue with results.


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## Maintenance 6 (Feb 26, 2008)

If you have a real concern about the appearance of the oil, take a sample and send it to an oil analysis lab. Every 20K, I send a sample. A good one will send you a report listing all of the characteristics of the oil including fuel dilution, viscosity shear, metallics suspended in it, minerals related to antifreeze that may be getting into the oil as well as plain old dirt. They'll also tell you how well the oil is performing as far as detergent additives and anti-foam agents and other things. This is not an endorsement, because I'm sure there are other labs out there that can do the same, but I personally have used this company when I was trying to resolve a fuel dilution issue on a diesel engine.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Once you have a test report in hand, you will know for certain whether you have a problem or not. If you read performance tests on engine oils, it's shocking who the good performers are and which ones are so poor, you won't put them in your neighbor's lawn mower.


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## TrapperL (Jul 23, 2011)

Doc, before you screw up that Ford any worse, let me give ya a few hints. I am a certified Tribologist. Research that one if you don't know what it is. I've worked in some of the most prestigious research labs in the world.
In regards to Seafoam. It is nothing more than pale oil(read a 20 viscosity light oil)naptha, and isoproypyl alcohol (read rubbing alcohol). There is absolutely NOTHING in the mix that will remove carbon but there's a lot of folks that will try. HINT, carbon burns at 8-900 Kelvin, a temperature your engine will NEVER see and survive. This mix has no place being in any engine component- oil, gas, or the intake. Many an engine have been destroyed by dimwits cramming this crap down the intake cracking valves, pistons, breaking ring packs, etc. In the oil, the alcohol literally strips lubrication. It can damage seals by striping the fats from the seal materials. In the gas, it brings nothing but a little higher combustion temps via the naptha but you have to remember, your cats are also having to cook off the pale oil or they will become coated and self destruct. This is a well documented scenario in the auto industry.
The color of the oil means little. If one change of the oil suddenly gets blacker than the previous change, the new oil is doing a better job at cleaning, that's all. The newer base oils and additive packages are much better than anything you've ever bought and they keep getting better. Depending on which Pennzoil you bought, the probablilites are high that it is one of the newer multi-base oils that they have come up with. Different base oils have different characteristics. The Gp I's have high polarity to the metals, Gp IIs have a fair polarity to the metals and a stronger film strength. The Gp IIIs have a very strong film strength but do not mix with the additive packages so a mineral oil is used as a binder. The Gp IV are not as common as they once were. They have very strong film strength and don't mix well with the additive package. They have either too strong polar positive or polar negative properties. Both require other additives to keep them in balance. The Gp Vs are everything else but are primarily the esters. The polyol esters are the most common and are a reaction of a fatty acid and an alcohol. There are NO 100% ester based oils out there and you wouldn't want it anyway. Esters have great solvency but cannot handle any water condensate like that of an engine in winter. The best oils out there are the blends if you are looking for the lowest wear metals. If it wears the Ford spec 930/931 or 945 it's as good an oil as you can buy.
Synthetic oils are a great way of the oil companies to drain your wallet. They provide no more lubricity, no more "protection", will not yield more fuel mileage providing the Kinematic viscosity is the same, will not make your engine go one mile farther than a normal OTC API motor oil. Avoid them unless you just like throwing money away. It's almost laughable the advertising hype about an oil being 100% synthetic- there is no such thing and won't be. Every base oil has an issue that has to be dealt with like the Gp IIIs and Gp IVs that require a mineral oil to bind the additive package to the base oil. No base oil is fabulous and no additive package is fabulous. Motor oil is a balance of base oil and additives. Adding anything to them and you can throw the entire chemistry out of balance. You can also have additive clash which will pretty much destroy the engine.
Want the best oil for your engine? Look in the owner manual and buy what it says. Engine technologies START with the lubrication long before the bore spacing, materials used, etc and even before the white paper is brought out to start the design. Might wanna research ILSAC so you have a clue.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

You're hired.  

Thanks for the information. I don't normally run anything through the motor, I just thought for tune up time it might help. 

I do find it odd that the industry would produce products that could potentially worsen the outcome it's intended to correct. Something isn't adding up.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Doc Holliday said:


> You're hired.
> 
> Thanks for the information. I don't normally run anything through the motor, I just thought for tune up time it might help.
> 
> I do find it odd that the industry would produce products that could potentially worsen the outcome it's intended to correct. Something isn't adding up.


I feel the same way every time I think about eating out. There is NOTHING at Chilis that contains a reasonable amount of calories. Except maybe a shot of Patron. I've been really happy with the Blackstone tests we've done on our cars. It's fun to see the real data.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

TrapperL said:


> Synthetic oils are a great way of the oil companies to drain your wallet. They provide no more lubricity, no more "protection", will not yield more fuel mileage providing the Kinematic viscosity is the same, will not make your engine go one mile farther than a normal OTC API motor oil. Avoid them unless you just like throwing money away.


The one thing Synthetic Oil _will _do is allow for easier starting on extremely cold days. Having lived in frigid Minnesota for many years, that was invaluable.


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## TrapperL (Jul 23, 2011)

Doc, there are FEW additives out there that have any value in the bottle. There is only one that I would say has value for an oil additive and it's Auto-Rx. It's a mix of lanolin esters that is used to clean the oil system slowly. It also restores the seal swell so any small leaks can be fixed with it. With gas additives. If you want a fuel system cleaner there are the POEs and the Stoddard Solvents. Unfortunately, most of the fuel system cleaners are nothing more than naptha in the can/bottle. Techron is the only one out there certified for use by all US auto makers. It's a POE.
DrHicks, yes at one time that was the case, but not today. You also can't go by the viscosity to think that a 5w-xx will flow better at cold temps than a 10w-xx. You need, in particular your part of the world, to look for the specs of the oil you are considering by going to the makers website. What is of value to you is the CCS rating of the oil. CCS means Cold Crank Simulator. It's actual test of how many amps it takes to turn the engine over fast enough for it to fire and the oil still providing lubrication. The numerical number is the actual viscosity but given in Centipoise. It might surprise you that some of the 10w oils are better than the 5w oils in fridgid/arctic conditions. With todays pour point depressants, mostly PMAs, the cold is not near an issue as is corrosion that the synthetics allow. Might want to see what your current oil is rated at before the winter months. FWIW, years back the synthetics were mostly a PAO base oil. But the ethylene gas used to make them has become hard to find and expensive. I'm not aware of any PAO based oils anymore. Mobil One hasn't been since Katrina when Mobil lost one of their PAO plants. They all are pretty much using the Gp III base oils for the synthetics. M1 does contain a splash of an ultra high vis PAO but not enough to matter. If you have a flat tappet engine and are using Mobil One in 5w-30, I'd suggest finding another oil. It's been failing IVA testing now for about 2 years. If you have a roller cam engine, no problem but the testing has been coming back with wear metals 3-4 times what is allowable. If you're a Mobil fan, use their EP version instead.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

TrapperL said:


> DrHicks, *yes at one time that was the case, but not today.* You also can't go by the viscosity to think that a 5w-xx will flow better at cold temps than a 10w-xx. You need, in particular your part of the world, to look for the specs of the oil you are considering by going to the makers website. What is of value to you is the CCS rating of the oil. CCS means Cold Crank Simulator. It's actual test of how many amps it takes to turn the engine over fast enough for it to fire and the oil still providing lubrication. The numerical number is the actual viscosity but given in Centipoise. It might surprise you that some of the 10w oils are better than the 5w oils in fridgid/arctic conditions. With todays pour point depressants, mostly PMAs, the cold is not near an issue as is corrosion that the synthetics allow. Might want to see what your current oil is rated at before the winter months. FWIW, years back the synthetics were mostly a PAO base oil. But the ethylene gas used to make them has become hard to find and expensive. I'm not aware of any PAO based oils anymore. Mobil One hasn't been since Katrina when Mobil lost one of their PAO plants. They all are pretty much using the Gp III base oils for the synthetics. M1 does contain a splash of an ultra high vis PAO but not enough to matter. If you have a flat tappet engine and are using Mobil One in 5w-30, I'd suggest finding another oil. It's been failing IVA testing now for about 2 years. If you have a roller cam engine, no problem but the testing has been coming back with wear metals 3-4 times what is allowable. If you're a Mobil fan, use their EP version instead.


I've heard that argument for years, and it always comes from the "lab perspective." But in real life, synthetic oil of the same viscosity will allow an engine to turn easier in extreme cold than will dino oil. 

...as a side note, I've rarely bought Mobil 1. Too pricey for what it is/was.


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

I could use some advice for my next oil change coming up shortly. I have a Ford F150 with around 230,000 miles that still uses no oil between changes. No smoking or puffs of smoke either. My "problem" is what seems like dry starts first thing in the morning in any weather. I can hear it before the the oil gauge registers.
My mechanic says it's not good to change oil types with motors as old as mine, and uses bulk oil. Think its a Penzoil 5W30 plain jane oil. After reading some of the above replies, I'm glad I didn't buy into any of those oil additives.
Any recommendations on an oil selection?


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Tizzer said:


> I could use some advice for my next oil change coming up shortly. I have a Ford F150 with around 230,000 miles that still uses no oil between changes. No smoking or puffs of smoke either. My "problem" is what seems like dry starts first thing in the morning in any weather. I can hear it before the the oil gauge registers.
> My mechanic says it's not good to change oil types with motors as old as mine, and uses bulk oil. Think its a Penzoil 5W30 plain jane oil. After reading some of the above replies, I'm glad I didn't buy into any of those oil additives.
> Any recommendations on an oil selection?


Keep doing what you've been doing, and add some Lucas Oil Stabilizer.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Sorry, in my opinion, all those additives are a waste of money. I remember when STP was the rage. We would tear down an engine and scrape STP out of the pan with a putty knife. I did use a little sometimes to lube new bearings when I had no white grease.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> Sorry, in my opinion, all those additives are a waste of money. I remember when STP was the rage. We would tear down an engine and scrape STP out of the pan with a putty knife. I did use a little sometimes to lube new bearings when I had no white grease.


Lucas Oil Stabilizer is different. It's not just thicker oil. It's certainly not magic, nor an overhaul in a can, but it serves a certain purpose.


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## TrapperL (Jul 23, 2011)

NEVER put Lucas crap in anything you own unless it's a beater on it's last leg. During the 1990's we saw a significant increase in viscosity spread, like a 10w-40. The oil companies did this by using a large amount of polymers. These polymers would condense out of formulation and form sludge which killed many an engine. All that's in the bottle of Lucas is polymers that are designed to thicken the oil, nothing more. If you NEED a thicker oil, buy it in the bottle. Lucas is the poster boy for snake oil extreme. For all of the snake oils on the market, there are less than 5 I can think that have ANY value in the product. Most injector cleaners are nothing more than a dose of kerosene in the bottle. Some are naptha based. Neither are going to do much to your injection system. Techron is the ONLY approved fuel injector cleaner by all auto makers. A good cheap one is Gumout with REGANE but it must say REGANE on the bottle. Both contain the ester cleaners known as the PEAs or polyether amines. The only oil additive worth having is Auto-Rx. It's a blend of lanolin esters like the esters used in the old PAO synthetic oils to cure the seal swell issues. It's a cleaner and can also cure SMALL oil leaks if at seals. It takes several oil changes to complete the clean cycle and the biggest issue with it is, it ain't cheap at $20.00+ a bottle- but it does work.

You didn't say what year model or engine is in that F150. Although some of the engines are backwards compatible to the lighter oils like a 5w-20, I wouldn't recommend it especially for your mileage. The main issue are the rod bearings at the crankshaft. As the engine wears in these rod bearings do not go around the crank in a perfect circle like you might think. They actually go around it in an elliptical shape. It does this naturally and provides for a wedge of oil in the bearing in front of the torque being applied by the piston. A new engine will wear in to the viscosity oil used. A light oil like a 5w-20 will result in less wear and a smaller wedge. Use a heavy oil like a 15w-40 and the wedge gets larger resulting in more wear initially. Going from a heavy viscosity oil to a light one can actually cause oil starvation at the ring packs and engine life short. If you are not having any oil consumption issues, stick with the 5w-30 oils. Pennzoil, Motorcraft, Havoline, Phillips Trop Arctic, Chevron Supreme, Kendall, all use more Gp III base oils in their blends and have the strongest film strengths. They also use less chemistry to achieve the balance necessary meaning fewer additives to deteriorate. The Blends will show the lowest amount of wear metals in analysis. Pick a brand and change at Fords recommended change interval and it'll last a lot more miles.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Once again, there is lab data, and then there is real life. Lab data also says that synthetic oils won't help engines turn over easier in extreme cold, but it does.

When my sons & I were doing our lawn mowing business, we went through at least one engine per year. When we started using Lucas Oil Stabilizer (usually synthetic), we never went through another engine. In fact, 7 years later I'm still running one of those mowers - everything having been rebuilt several times, except the engine. Coincidence? Maybe. But maybe not.

I run Lucas Oil Stabilizer in everything I have, and it's hard to argue with the results:
- I recently sold my 97 VW Golf, running strong with over 350,000 miles.
- My daughter's Ford Focus is running perfectly at 228,000 miles.
- My truck I used to pull the mower trailer with is running strong at 219,000 miles.
- Our Volvo, with 214,000 miles, runs perfectly.

Coincidence? Perhaps. But maybe not.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

The truck is a 1998 4.2 liter v6, long (8') bed. All original.

I'm a few hundred miles over the oil change limit and will probably be a few hundred more miles before I get around to having it changed but so far she's still running like it's new oil, smooth and not that nitty gritty feeling it had after I ran the Sea Foam. I'm guessing that is what happened, the Sea Foam cleaned out deposits and gunk and deposited it into the oil.

We'll see in a few days how black or not black the oil is.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I have an 89 Buick with 228,000 miles. No additive has ever been used and it still needs no oil added between changes. The engine has never been touched. Engine life relates directly to care.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

rusty baker said:


> I have an 89 Buick with 228,000 miles. No additive has ever been used and it still needs no oil added between changes. The engine has never been touched. *Engine life relates directly to care.*


Exactly. There are very few "bad engines" being put in cars & trucks anymore. It used to be that we felt good if our car made it to 100,000 miles. Now we're upset if it doesn't make 200,000. 

Likewise, there are very few bad oils and/or bad oil filters. Under normal conditions, regular foil & filter changes - with whatever brand you choose - will work wonderfully.


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## Tizzer (Jul 24, 2010)

I actually bought a bottle of that Lucas stuff a couple months ago. After reading the directions, I poured a little on the ground first. Man, it was like Motor Medic or STP it was so thick.
Gave the bottle to a buddy who's car burned oil. Mine is the 4.9 six cyl. and think I'll just go get 6 qts. of high mileage oil and change it myself.


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## 95025 (Nov 14, 2010)

Tizzer said:


> I actually bought a bottle of that Lucas stuff a couple months ago. After reading the directions, I poured a little on the ground first. Man, it was like Motor Medic or STP it was so thick.
> Gave the bottle to a buddy who's car burned oil. Mine is the 4.9 six cyl. and think I'll just go get 6 qts. of high mileage oil and change it myself.


It's supposed to be thick and sticky. And that's why you only use a little bit per oil change (10% is the recommendation, I believe).


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

I had the oil changed the other day, I think I was close to 1000 miles over the recommended 3000 mile mark and although I walked to a restaurant next door and had lunch while the truck was in the shop I did ask the kid what the oil looked like. He said it was close to 2 quarts low and dark. 

Dark I can believe seeing as how I'm driving anywhere from 100 to 190 miles per day but not two quarts low. She was still running too smooth to be that low.

I'll check myself next time.

Thanks for all the very helpful replies, all.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

400 miles until next oil change and she is still full. The oil is still clean, not dark.


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## CATliftTech (Nov 20, 2011)

Doc Holliday said:


> 400 miles until next oil change and she is still full. The oil is still clean, not dark.


Whether oil is dark, black, or light doesn't mean anything regarding your oil being worn out, or being good! If anything, when being drained, if it's dark, the oil is doing its' job of keeping the stuff the oil filter doesn't trap, in suspension! The ONLY way to know if the oil has lost the additive effectiveness is to send it out for analysis. Oil does not lose the ability to lubricate. 

Also, people get too anal about going over the "magic" 3,000 mile point. I've followed the A & B schedules in the owner's manuals on all my vehicles. I have driven them to well over 100,000 miles with no engine failures. I have a '79 dodge 360, still healthy at 199,954 miles I've owned for 30 years.

If you have the money to waste on oil changes every 3,000 miles, and don't mind wasting finite resources, knock yourself out. The oil companies love you! I can't afford it!

BTW, oil additives are pure snake oil. They do more damage to your engine and wallet than you know. Again, if you have the money to waste on them, enjoy. That's the free market working, and I'm all for the free market.


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