# Softening hard clay soil



## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

I had a house like that. The house was actually lower than the surrounding properties.


I'd start composting the leaves & garden debris that you have. Or you can buy amendments to add to your soil. It's actually much simpler than all those expensive additives make it seem.


If I had it to do over & probably will, since Calif has a lot of ground like that, I'd have rototilled it initially, adding organic amendments & fertilizer. That way the soil is no longer just clay.


I've learned a lot about French drains on here. Hopefully someone will make some suggestions.:smile:
And no it doesn't help to just add soil on top.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I have clay as well and it foes at least 5' deep and is pure and impervious to any water.

Digging out the surface risks creating a pond that fills up and a bigger mess. You need to do some exploratory digging to determine what is below your surface issues. If the water can't go down then you need to plan on surface drainage plus a subsurface path. Both of those can be very difficult.

Next would be finding a soil below your problem area that will drain. If you get lucky you could create a drainage pit to handle that surface water.

Last would be a large sump pit to collect the surface water and pump it somewhere?

Bud


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Consider taking a soil sample of the soil in question and consulting with your local extension service if you have one and I'm thinking you probably do. In general those folks are familiar with the local areas and are very willing to assist.
At one time I thought our soil was pure sand but was pleasantly surprised by sampling. All needed is a jar, soil, water then vigorously shake a couple of minutes and allow to set over night. Your extension service people may be pleasantly surprised when they see how considerate you are by bringing in a sample.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Tilling in organic material is the best advice .

This gives the clay something to be transformed by into a soil that can support the desired grass. 

Till it several times with more and more organics ( straw, leaves, cow poop, etc.) then allow it to disintegrate thoroughly. 

Plant grass next year. 

While you wait install a catch basin and a drain pipe to drain any future flooding away to the closest storm drain.


ED


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@007noob, the advice given so far is sound.

Except, I'd go further; Instead of rototilling a few inches, I'd dig down two feet and bury small mountains of cut up organics in there, then wait till it rots. A lot of work, oh yeah, I've done it. If it's practical, you can use a Bobcat, though that's usually a lot tougher than it's worth, because they pack the soil you drive them over. 

You don't have to spend a lot of money. Do like I did and bury anything suitable you can find; dead leaves, grass clippings, wood chips, straw, small branches, wood ashes, nasty food tossed from the fridge, kitty and doggie, er, byproducts, even dead animals. DON'T bury big tree trunks, they take too long to rot. 

You should dump so much in the hole that it makes a mountain that sticks above the top, about a foot. Then, throw half the dirt back in and make another mound of more stuff, then toss the rest of the dirt over the top, like a giant dirt layer cake. It'll look like this giant mass grave for awhile, till all that stuff starts to rot and settle. 2 -3 feet of dead leaves will rot down to about an inch. Also, the act of getting in there and digging will help a lot to break up the clay. 

The best way to think of soil is like a crop in an of itself. It's the end result of rot and decay of organic stuff, mixed with inorganic stuff. Take care of your soil and it will take care of you, with a great garden and bountiful yields. 

Is your house a brand-new house, or at least built within the last 20 years or so?


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> You should dump so much in the hole that it makes a mountain


Ayuh,..... I get where yer going with this,..... But,......

In the Op's situation, that will cause water under the house,......

In the picture above, it appears the area is rather flat, 'n level, except,.....
It appears that the far corner of the fence is, "Downhill",......
That said,....

I think what I would do is,....
Rototill the area to full tine depth, 'bout 8" to break up the clay as much as possible, throughout the area,.....
After removin' the salvageable bit of the springlers, they need to be reinstalled later,....

Once the area is well ground up, guessin', I'd spread, say 5 bales of peat, 'n 'bout 1/2 ton of sand,......
Then go back to rototillin', til it's all mixed up,......

After the soil is mixed, rake off a grade that drains the entire area, to a swale if necessary, so that ya got 1" every 10', all the way away,....

There'll be excess of this new top dirt you just built, so stock-pile it to fix settlement later, or use it to shim out other areas of yer lawn,.....


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## 007noob (Sep 17, 2018)

Thanks of all the suggestions!! The house is old, built in the mid 90s. I am not the original owner but neighbors told me the area had very nice top soil before houses were built. The builders sold the soil. 

If I dig a little may be a few inches down some places have lots of gravel and some places have just more of the same stuff. When I see gravel or large rocks I tend to remove them. 

Does it help if I dig a hole in the ground where the water pools most? I would fill up the hole with compost, manure, leaves, top soil , etc.... Would this create a natural channel for the water to drain?


Unfortunately I can’t dig two feet down. I may end up bleeding myself if I exert too much pressure. I do have an electric tiller and I can use that to turn the soil probably 10” deep. So should I sift the gravel and rocks out from under?


In a month when the weather is a bit warmer I’m going to get the soil tested so I know exactly what it is. 




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## BayouRunner (Feb 5, 2016)

Nothing but clay here. I feel your pain. We tried sod a couple of times. Seed as well. What actually worked was tilling up the area and adding organic like mentioned above. Also had someone test the soil and we had to add lime. When I first built the house I spent $1200 on plants for landscaping in the front back in the early 90's. Every bit of it died. What happened was we tilled it deep and added nursery soil (mixture I got from landscaper) but with the clay soil all around we actually wound up drowning the plants. Gutters afterwards and redid everything, diverted as much water away from the house as I could.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> So should I sift the gravel and rocks out from under?


Naw,.... just rake out the rocks big enough that the lawnmower could fling into yer window,......


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Bud9051 said:


> I have clay as well and it foes at least 5' deep and is pure and impervious to any water.
> 
> Digging out the surface risks creating a pond that fills up and a bigger mess. You need to do some exploratory digging to determine what is below your surface issues. If the water can't go down then you need to plan on surface drainage plus a subsurface path. Both of those can be very difficult.
> 
> ...


That's a tough, but rare situation. More often I've found that tract houses at least have layers of dirt of different kinds from the use of fill, and grading, packing, etc. 

Egad, a sump pit! Lots of horror stories of those. No one keeps up the maintenance till there's a flood. My experience is that water will tend to drain on sloping land, though sometimes it does slope the wrong way.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

007noob said:


> Thanks of all the suggestions!! The house is old, built in the mid 90s. I am not the original owner but neighbors told me the area had very nice top soil before houses were built. The builders sold the soil.
> 
> If I dig a little may be a few inches down some places have lots of gravel and some places have just more of the same stuff. When I see gravel or large rocks I tend to remove them.
> 
> ...


I assume you mean the 1990s, which makes it a new house. 

Sounds like you have the typical builder raping the land situation, and it will require a lot of TLC to bring it back. We had the same problem in Moreno Valley, California back in the 1980s. Now, all the homes in [email protected] Valley have nice gardens, where the people did the work.

Sounds like you might have to get some picks, etc., or even augers and the like to break up your Hell-Substrate. Bad news is that the harder it is to do that, the more important it is. Might be worth the expense to hire some masochists to get out there and do it if you're not able to. 

Good luck!


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

DoomsDave said:


> I assume you mean the 1990s, which makes it a new house.
> 
> Sounds like you have the typical builder raping the land situation, and it will require a lot of TLC to bring it back. We had the same problem in Moreno Valley, California back in the 1980s. Now, all the homes in [email protected] Valley have nice gardens, where the people did the work.
> 
> ...



San Fernando Valley?:biggrin2:


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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

Add Perlite to existing soil.


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## 007noob (Sep 17, 2018)

But won’t perlite cause it to more water?




ClarenceBauer said:


> Add Perlite to existing soil.







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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

007noob, you can look up much of the geology by searching for your area. There are lots of Geological maps & work done by USGS as well as Universities, etc. I assume you're in the US? It can tell you what is deep.


The construction crews may have added a lot of fill.


I would think the gravel would help drainage but I'm not the one roto-tilling the land. :wink2:


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## 007noob (Sep 17, 2018)

Yup... I’m in central NJ


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Nik333 said:


> San Fernando Valley?:biggrin2:


Nah, Moreno Valley. A local rag made a big deal over the fact that Marilyn Chambers TV was available there, so I called it [email protected] Valley.

The San Fernando Valley I call Silicone Valley, to distinguish it from that other one up North. Near Sam Frank's Disco.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Could tilling too deep kill those trees? Tree roots maybe spread out and near the surface. Also is it sunny side? Instead of focusing on grass, how about more gravel? When the dirt is loose during rain, spread gravel and work it in by walking over them? If amending, I'd assume the trees could die and then till in the top soil and roll it but sloping away from the house.


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## 007noob (Sep 17, 2018)

It’s not the sunny side. Sun light blocked by the deck structure and magnolia. The roots for the big tree are big enough not to be damaged by the tiller - it’ll just bounce right of the root 


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

007noob said:


> The house is old, built in the mid 90s.


Unless you mean the 1890s, that's not old. :wink2:


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## FrillyLily (Jun 4, 2012)

If you go tilling there you will probably kill both of those trees. Also the area looks like a walk area to the back yard mostly. If it were me, I'd put down more stepping stones and make a wide pathway. Then plant stuff on either side that tolerates clay, get rid of the grass there altogether. Many people add peat or sand to help with clay, but it doesn't work usually. You can google that and read up on it yourself. The only way to fix clay is to till it deep, remove some of the clay, and put in organic compost. You can fix clay by putting compost on top, however it takes years. If you till it and work it in, it is faster. You can also buy earthworms to add to the soil AFTER you put in the compost. (they cannot live in heavy clay). Also since this is close to the house, you need to make sure there are no utilities under the area where you til. I wouldn't till it all though, unless you want to risk losing the trees. This area will always be a battle for you if you want grass there, and you want to keep the trees too.


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## gthomson (Nov 13, 2016)

I would definitely do a soil test to see what you have there - maybe from a couple places, and at different depths. I thought I had a lot of clay, but found it was actually very sandy dirt. It was just really dead, dry and compacted.
I wasn't trying to keep mine at the level it was like you probably are, as I was going to put mulch and plant some edibles.
I put about an inch or two of compost - got a yard from a local nursery for about $24 - filled the bed of a Ridgeline to just overflowing. 1/2 yard would be more than enough for what you might need probably.
I then put wood chips on it.
Watered off and on for 6 months.
The soil came back to life.
Worms were back and the compost seemed to help then start breaking down the compacted dirt so things would grow again.
My orange tree nearby made a pretty amazing comeback.
If it is indeed clay, I think compost will also help in that case, but not sure 100% on that.
Since you want grass back in there, I'd probably stay away from wood chips added into the mix. I've heard they will steal the nitrogen out of the soil. I just keep layering them on top as a mulch, not something mixed into the soil.


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## cynic (Jun 23, 2017)

lookup greensand, broadcast it across your lawn. It will help break up the clay.
But you may not want to wait for that to work and take the more drastic action.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

I found a couple articles including Central New Jersey, one simple & one complex.


https://soilsmatter.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/state-soils-new-jersey/


https://soilseries.sc.egov.usda.gov/OSD_Docs/D/DUNELLEN.html


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

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