# Fair price for labor only?



## Blondesense (Sep 23, 2008)

There are too many variables, including where you are located and who you're hiring (experience level) to expect an accurate answer. 

If you know what you're doing and just need an extra pair of hands you might look for a handyman rather than a professional roofer. Just make sure your rear end is covered regarding liability/insurance. 

And WFIW, this is a DIY site. Probably not the best place to look for an answer to your question.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

speedy5966 said:


> Hi!
> OK, I purchased a Mueller, 30x50 R-panel metal building, and with the help of my Wife and my son, have built most of it myself. The only thing left is the roof. I have all of the materials, and the panels are already lifted onto the top of the building. The only thing I need done, is to lay them out, and screw them down. It's only a 2-12 pitch, so it's not very steep. I'd like to get an idea of a fair price for this labor. I'd do it myself, but my son and wife aren't fond of heights, and I don't want to be on the roof by myself, trying to handle those panels.* I got one quote already of $2,000, which I feel is pretty high.*
> 
> Thanks!


Probably seems that way, for a DIY'er. But for a pro having the proper licensing, insurance, and tools and sensing that the HO is probably going to be looking over his shoulder supervising and asking beaucoup questions, it sounds a little cheap to me.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

seeyou said:


> *Probably seems that way, for a DIY'er*. But for a pro having the proper licensing, insurance, and tools and sensing that the HO is probably going to be looking over his shoulder supervising and asking beaucoup questions, it sounds a little cheap to me.


My thoughts exactly. Some people think $100-200 a day should cover anyone in construction. They don't understand that we don't just put that money in our pocket and bring it home.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

What is the equipment the roofer has? - Just a ladder and a strong back?

You are smart not getting on the roof even if your are experienced and confident. I came off a low roof and ended up with 2 months in the hospital, a months of out patient physical therapy, a leg 1" shorter than the other (special shoes), a cane (after the walker and crutches) and another leg (knee, hip) distorted and not being able to sleep even if I was able to do what I want to do and cannot do now. - The medical bills were $170,000+, but I had good insurance since I was doing an inspection for a friend (free) and not even installing.

Dick


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## speedy5966 (Apr 14, 2011)

MJW said:


> My thoughts exactly. Some people think $100-200 a day should cover anyone in construction. They don't understand that we don't just put that money in our pocket and bring it home.


I resent that remark. I never once said I expected it done for a couple hundred bucks, nor did I cay I thought the guy was ripping me off. I do understand that contractors need to earn a living, too, and that they have overhead to consider. Gas ain't cheap, and neither is skilled labor. I simply felt that $2,000 was an awful lot of money for him and his ONE helper, to do a day and a half's worth of work. (These are his numbers, not mine) I am also aware that there are an awful lot of shady "construction contractors" out there, that will over price a job, because they think the customer doesn't know any better.

Thanks to those who left constructive comments. I guess maybe that estimate may not be as high as I thought. The reason I thought it was high, is that at first, this guy thought I was asking him to side and roof the whole building, and he quoted me $2500. Once I got past the language barrier, I made it clear that he was only doing the roof, he only dropped it by $500. The drop in price didn't seem proportionate to the reduction in the amount of work. So maybe he was low on the first quote?

I am in the Ft Worth area, and yes, It's a guy, his truck, his helper, and a couple of ladders. I am leaning towards a couple of hired hands, instead of a pro. I built the rest of it myself, so I'm comfortable with doing it, just not sure where I'll find the time.

Thanks!


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

just get some estimates from a few more people and compare. Remember, if they are hurt on your property and they don't have the proper insurance, it can fall back onto you. 

and that is with a pro sheet metal installer or a handyman.


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## concretemasonry (Oct 10, 2006)

speedy -

Your property, your building, you hired the "hands", and know how to do it, so you are responsible. - Good luck!

Also, no guarantee if it is not done to your standards.

Dick


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

speedy5966 said:


> II simply felt that $2,000 was an awful lot of money for him and his ONE helper, to do a day and a half's worth of work.


You must think about all the things involved. He probably already spent $30-$50 just giving you a 'free' estimate. Plus the time taken out of his schedule. What about down time, rain/snow days, other people expecting free estimates, everyday tools, and everyday bills. Now, he probably still won't get the job because you just need some cheaper labor. 

I think you should just do it yourself.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

* I simply felt that $2,000 was an awful lot of money for him and his ONE helper, to do a day and a half's worth of work. *

Let's do some math:

1st - I think 1.5 days is optimistic. Also, if you don't have a half day job lined up, you don't make anything for the 2nd half of the day. Either way, you need to price out full days.

So, 2 men for two days is 32 man hours, assuming 8 hr days. Plus, he's invested at least an hour in giving you a price. So, $2000/33=
$60.60/hr. My labor burden is about 125% (OH&P) so I'll use that. 
this will vary from company to company, but it's what I'll use for this example. So, $60.60/2.25= $26.93. If they've underestimated the time it will take, it will drop from there. What if it rains them out in the middle of the day? Rolling up and ruling back out for the 3rd time will cost an hour or two. 

They might get done in a day and a half and have a half day job lined up nearby. If that's the case, they'll make more money, but it's not likely. That's the nature of bid work. You want a price before they start. They want a price that covers contingencies. 

I've done jobs T&M on occasion after bidding when the client thought the bid was too high. If the total came in below the original bid, it was by a slim margin, but more often it wound up costing more. Often, a lot of that is due to interference from the client. If you're paying by the hour and want to ask a lot of questions and second guess me, it's your money. If I'm working on a bid contract, it's my money you're wasting, so I might not be as receptive to a lot of chatting.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> speedy -
> 
> Your property, your building, you hired the "hands", and know how to do it, so you are responsible. - Good luck!
> 
> ...


Aha, I forgot about that. One little leak and the guy that installed is on the hook to come back and fix it. Negative Cha-Ching!


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

speedy5966 said:


> I resent that remark. I never once said I expected it done for a couple hundred bucks, nor did I cay I thought the guy was ripping me off. I do understand that contractors need to earn a living, too, and that they have overhead to consider. Gas ain't cheap, and neither is skilled labor. I simply felt that $2,000 was an awful lot of money for him and his ONE helper, to do a day and a half's worth of work. (These are his numbers, not mine) I am also aware that there are an awful lot of shady "construction contractors" out there, that will over price a job, because they think the customer doesn't know any better.
> 
> Thanks to those who left constructive comments. I guess maybe that estimate may not be as high as I thought. The reason I thought it was high, is that at first, this guy thought I was asking him to side and roof the whole building, and he quoted me $2500. Once I got past the language barrier, I made it clear that he was only doing the roof, he only dropped it by $500. The drop in price didn't seem proportionate to the reduction in the amount of work. So maybe he was low on the first quote?
> 
> ...


My area has numerous day labor companies, you can request workers with construction experience and work them 1, 2, 3, 4 days, etc.

You can also ask sales rep's at your local lumber yards or roofing supply stores about individuals who may be interested in working hourly for you.

You could also ask the roofer who gave you the bid if he's interested in working by the hour.

P.S. Make sure the materials are weighed down/secured properly.

edited to add:
In my area a fair price would be $65.00 per hour for me and one helper.
65 x 16 (2 persons, one 8 hr day) = $1040.00 per day.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

*I guess that I am different.IMHO a roof should always be installed by a professional.A real cheap price typically gets you a real cheap installation.*

*I could understand someone wanting to pay someone by the hour on a shed or a overhang lean too.But not a 30'x50' building.*

*The reason I would hire a pro is because of the size and the knowledge needed for an installation of the project.The cost of replacing damaged or improperly installed panels could come close to the price you were quoted.*

*IMHO when you hire hourly roofing contractors then you get a hourly mentality installation.I completely understand that people need breaks and chances so do a good deed and hire someone by the hour to build a dog house maybe build a small deck with some landscaping.*

*Don't get me wrong I do good deeds for people,we do habitat for humanity and rehabitat for humanity.But in turn I would make a concious decision that would help my investment not take a chance on wasted materials or faulty installs.*

*I have been asked by homeowners to work by the hour and they get really frustrated with my hourly rates.*

*I once did a reroof for $8800.00,,the job was complete in 6 hours.The homeowner was furious.They thought I took advantage of them since it was completed so quick.I made $5000.00 that day.That average was $833.00 per hour.*

*I personally have never had a whole lot of faith in people who perform work at a daily rate.In roofing that type IMHO is a guy living for the weekend,chasing a fix or some other vise that has them in that situation.*

*Its your property but with the size of the project and the expense of fixing damaged or improperly installed panels that alone would point me in a direction north of the daily or hourly mumbo jumbo.*

*Someone gave some great advice about checking with your local lumber yard.I have people referr me from Lowes and Home Depot,,,,they are not suppose to but they do.I would have a pro do the work.You can sleep better knowing it was installed correctly.And even if you do have a problem someone could be a phone call away showing integrity and workmanship dedication.Good Luck.*


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Roofing is not rocket science dude.
If you understand basic mathematics, can read English or Spanish on the installation instructions, have the basic (high school shop class) skill level to run a drill, screw gun, snips, understand the basic laws of gravity and have a little common sense, your good too go.

The home owner in this thread has all ready proven he's knowledgeable enough to handle the roof being that he built the structure that the roof is setting on.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Slyfox said:


> Roofing is not rocket science dude.
> If you understand basic mathematics, can read English or Spanish on the installation instructions, have the basic (high school shop class) skill level to run a drill, screw gun, snips, understand the basic laws of gravity and have a little common sense, your good too go.
> 
> The home owner in this thread has all ready proven he's knowledgeable enough to handle the roof being that he built the structure that the roof is setting on.


 
*Your right sly what on earth was I thinking ? I must have struck a nerve with you,,,,oopsy daisy,,,my fault.*

*Roofing is so easy.Why didn't I think of that? I know some educated idiots,and they figured out the laws of gravity,,,after they hit the ground a few times it became obvious.*

*This trade is full of people who have snips,screw guns,drills and all tools needed to install metal,shingles and other roof systems.But majority of the ones that are hourly or by the day,1.)Don't pay taxes,,,2.)Are not insured...(Bonded,GL,WC),,,,3.)Licensed.You cannot say too much for me to think any different.Many also have substance and alcohol dependancies.*

*When I contract a job I want to be paid as a contractor.If I wanted to be hourly or by the day I would not waste my time being a contractor I would be a sub.Or be the "Guy who does work around the area"*

*I understand the poster has knowledge and that is great,,,,The question was if $2000 was too much to pay for the metal to be installed.I think its completely fair.You even stated that you earn around $1000 per day,,,,so if the job took 2 days,,,then there is your $2000.*

*Besides about everything I said was begun or ended with the comment IMO or IMHO,,,,I am absolutely entitled to my opinion.You nor anyone else can take that away .I am not trying to battle with you or debate with you because I have much more important things to do.*

*I feel roofing is a trade.This trade is my passion and my life.I love it.I love everything about it.I feel it is demanding mentally and physically.*

*Amputation isn't rocket science either.If you have ever skinned a deer,a fish or any other animal then as long as you have a sharp knife,have a little common sense,know the basic fundamentals of using a hand saw or a reciprocate saw,ever took wood working in a high school shop class and know how to cap off a waterline you should be good to go.*

*I think alot of roofing and sorry I have more thought and pride with roofing than to make a degrading comment that its not rocket science.*


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Roofmaster:*
**(Your right sly what on earth was I thinking ? I must have struck a nerve with you,,,,oopsy daisy,,,my fault.*)

LOL, no nerve struck, just stating facts dude.

*(Roofing is so easy.Why didn't I think of that? I know some educated idiots,and they figured out the laws of gravity,,,after they hit the ground a few times it became obvious.*)

I have known a few of these roofers.

*(This trade is full of people who have snips,screw guns,drills and all tools needed to install metal,shingles and other roof systems.But majority of the ones that are hourly or by the day,1.)Don't pay taxes,,,2.)Are not insured...(Bonded,GL,WC),,,,3.)Licensed.You cannot say too much for me to think any different.Many also have substance and alcohol dependancies.*)

Your right, but, the majority of the contractors who drive brand new trucks/vans also cheat the system by working any where from a handful to a couple dozen workers full time but treat each one (or most) as a sub, thus they are cheating on taxes, insurances, benefits, etc., as well.
The trades are full of scabs at both the mom&pop and the multi-crew level contractors.

*(When I contract a job I want to be paid as a contractor.If I wanted to be hourly or by the day I would not waste my time being a contractor I would be a sub.Or be the "Guy who does work around the area"*)

I'm a sub but I never work per hour, I will on occasion work T&M,
which is kind of the same thing.

*(I understand the poster has knowledge and that is great,,,,The question was if $2000 was too much to pay for the metal to be installed.I think its completely fair.You even stated that you earn around $1000 per day,,,,so if the job took 2 days,,,then there is your $2000.*)

Yes, that was the question.

*(Besides about everything I said was begun or ended with the comment IMO or IMHO,,,,I am absolutely entitled to my opinion.You nor anyone else can take that away .I am not trying to battle with you or debate with you because I have much more important things to do.*)

Agreed.
I wasn't trying to take your opinion away, I just disagreed with your opinion.

*(I feel roofing is a trade.This trade is my passion and my life.I love it.I love everything about it.I feel it is demanding mentally and physically.*)

Agreed.

*(Amputation isn't rocket science either.If you have ever skinned a deer,a fish or any other animal then as long as you have a sharp knife,have a little common sense,know the basic fundamentals of using a hand saw or a reciprocate saw,ever took wood working in a high school shop class and know how to cap off a waterline you should be good to go.*)

If you say so.

*(I think alot of roofing and sorry I have more thought and pride with roofing than to make a degrading comment that its not rocket science.*)

It was not a degrading comment, it was a factual statement.

It takes years to become a skilled roofer (repetition).
I take pride in my work and have since I started in 1979.
I have never been sued by an home owner, contractor or builder.
I never had to sue anyone, because I never had anyone refuse to pay me.
I have never had an insurance claim (liability or comp) even when I was a contractor running multiple crews in the 90's.

I love my Trade of Choice.


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## brenda o (Sep 25, 2009)

i don't know, the more i read, the more i flet bad for the guy asking the question to begin with, he just wanted to know if it was a "fair price", not to mention the specifics of what the estimator did with "changing his price" it also would have led me to believe that the original estimate was too low and the roof estimate not in the right proportion. believe me, i believe in hiring a professional and respect it even more after joining this site, there is always good, sound advice. i just feel like the poor guy asking a simple question was being targetted as a cheapskate of something.... let it be........


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

concretemasonry said:


> What is the equipment the roofer has? - Just a ladder and a strong back?
> 
> You are smart not getting on the roof even if your are experienced and confident. I came off a low roof and ended up with 2 months in the hospital, a months of out patient physical therapy, a leg 1" shorter than the other (special shoes), a cane (after the walker and crutches) and another leg (knee, hip) distorted and not being able to sleep even if I was able to do what I want to do and cannot do now. - The medical bills were $170,000+, but I had good insurance since I was doing an inspection for a friend (free) and not even installing.
> 
> Dick


Yep those were the thoughts that go through my mind every time I contemplate anything that involves getting on the roof. I don't mind DIY when when it's reasonably safe but I sonsider the money paid to the roofers well spent. 

As Nap suggested, get several estimates then you know whether or not the first one is fair.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

brenda o said:


> i don't know, the more i read, the more i flet bad for the guy asking the question to begin with, he just wanted to know if it was a "fair price", not to mention the specifics of what the estimator did with "changing his price" it also would have led me to believe that the original estimate was too low and the roof estimate not in the right proportion. believe me, i believe in hiring a professional and respect it even more after joining this site, there is always good, sound advice. i just feel like the poor guy asking a simple question was being targetted as a cheapskate of something.... let it be........


I apologize for my part in taking the post off topic.


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

Jim F said:


> Yep those were the thoughts that go through my mind every time I contemplate anything that involves getting on the roof. I don't mind DIY when when it's reasonably safe but I sonsider the money paid to the roofers well spent.
> 
> As Nap suggested, get several estimates then you know whether or not the first one is fair.


Agreed.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Slyfox said:


> I apologize for my part in taking the post off topic.


I don't think this thread went off topic, at least by very far. The OP ended his post with:

*I got one quote already of $2,000, which I feel is pretty high.*

The implication was that the quote was too high. Several of us didn't think so and went forward to explain his/her position. Mostly valuable info, IMHO.

Unfortunately, passion sneaks in when one's livelyhood falls in question.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

brenda o said:


> i don't know, the more i read, the more i flet bad for the guy asking the question to begin with, he just wanted to know if it was a "fair price", not to mention the specifics of what the estimator did with "changing his price" it also would have led me to believe that the original estimate was too low and the roof estimate not in the right proportion. believe me, i believe in hiring a professional and respect it even more after joining this site, there is always good, sound advice. i just feel like the poor guy asking a simple question was being targetted as a cheapskate of something.... let it be........


Come on Brenda,,,,,,NO ONE was degrading or humiliating the OP's post.IMHO a STUPID question is one thats NOT asked.I have nothing against the OP.,sh**,I have nothing against Sly,,,He is a GREAT competent ROOFER who runs a TIGHT ship.


If you have spent anytime on this site you will find that disagreements arise,,,,,regardless of the POST.

The OP obviously was not offended by my post.This is construction,,,,This is roofing.


Thank You,,,SEE YOU for coming to a professionals defense.I have NOTHING BUT RESPECT FOR SLY,,,,Always Have and ALWAYS WILL.,,I first met Sly fox Via the INTERNET since 2002,,,,,,almost 12 YEARS,,,Grumpy is right there with the Fox...

Everyone disagrees,and it happens on forums,,,,,But WE act like Pro's and kiss and make up so to speak(Sly forget about it NO KISSES FROM ME) and we continue to help DIY'rs and homeowners.IMHO we all came to the same conclusion,,,$2000 is plenty and a pro should install the roof system,,,,,,PERIOD.

Brenda,I have nothing but respect for you,,,,no I have never met you but respect due to you.No disrespect was intended,,you are entitled and thats that.

JIMF,MJW,SEEYOU and SlyFox,,,THANK YOU,,,you are true TRADESMAN IMHPO.,,,,Thanks


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

I first met Sly fox Via the INTERNET since 2002,,,,,,almost 12 YEARS,


I think you forgot to carry the 7..........:whistling2:


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## Slyfox (Jun 13, 2008)

(IMHO we all came to the same conclusion,,,$2000 is plenty and a pro should install the roof system,,,,,,PERIOD.)

Yes we can agree to disagree with out being/becoming enemies.

I can't agree if $2000.00 is the right price or not because I don't know all the details of the roof the poster is installing, I just gave a bottom price of what I would charge for the basics.

I do not agree the roof should be installed by a pro, only.
The way I saw it was if he was capable of building the structure then he most likely is capable of roofing it.

Not trying to be argumentative, just making my thoughts clear is all.


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## Grumpy (Dec 12, 2003)

This is why I do not get involved with projects where someone else is suplying the materials... they just want cheap and I aint cheap! 


Cheap cheap cheap, they'll laugh all the way to the bank and cry when it leaks.


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

seeyou said:


> I first met Sly fox Via the INTERNET since 2002,,,,,,almost 12 YEARS,
> 
> 
> I think you forgot to carry the 7..........:whistling2:


 
Geeeez,I am a Goober,,,,,Hahahaha Yes,I make errors.I am silly,,,,I was just amped on this post,,But it happens.I am happy I have a CPA,,,cuz I would be in some serious trouble.Hahahaha


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## Roofmaster417 (Jun 9, 2010)

Slyfox said:


> Not trying to be argumentative, just making my thoughts clear is all.


 
*No worries here Sly,,,,,,,everyday is a new day.Just imagine how boring it would be if everyone thought the same.,Hahahaha,,,,,,,,,,,respect to you,,,no worries.*


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