# Siding install - How should I handle this issue?



## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

This is one of my pet peaves and they do it to save material.Less waste so tey can bid the job a little cheaper.They end up making a diagonal pattern of all the laps and I think it sucks.But.there is nothing wrong with the install .And it does meet VSI standards.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

The installer mentioned that was a way to save on materials. I told him I want it to look right and I will gladly pay a little extra for more siding if it came down to that.

I looked at the siding they took off of my house, and measured the seams at 3 feet. 

I did see on certainteed's install site they mention seams should be at least 3 feet apart (page 75) > http://www.certainteed.com/resources/cts205.pdf

If I mention that I want it done differently, and I mention it right at the start of the project. What are my options? I have a signed contract w the roofing company who subcontracted this siding crew.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't know what your options are as far as your contract.
When I do siding I scatter my laps all over the place staring with different sized cut offs.Not much waste and there is sure no pattern to the laps.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I feel like I'm really cornered right now. Even after telling them I don't want it done that way.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Talk to the person you signed contract with. A proper install will have 3' between joints, as you said in "Top ten tips" directly from manufacturer... interesting they mention fastening (other than over studs) through the sheathing requires 3/4" thick material, wonder if they lose a lot of warranties with only 7/16" OSB and off-stud-center fastening...

Gary


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gary in WA said:


> Talk to the person you signed contract with. A proper install will have 3' between joints, as you said in "Top ten tips" directly from manufacturer... interesting they mention fastening (other than over studs) through the sheathing requires 3/4" thick material, wonder if they lose a lot of warranties with only 7/16" OSB and off-stud-center fastening...
> 
> Gary


Thanks Gary. I talked to the owner of the company I signed the contract with and he said they will be doing 3 feet from here on out which makes me happy. It's sad a customer has to beg for this though. 

The siding crew is being subbed out, but the guy who I signed the contract with is very reputable and it's nice to see him making sure things are right. If it weren't for him the siding crew could care less. 

I had them install an Andersen 200-series sliding patio door yesterday and it won't fully lock. They didn't align the latch properly.. always something.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I always start the next run with the cut piece from the last run. In most cases this makes for a truly random pattern and minimizes the number of flange cuts.

I would not care to see the pattern you pictured above on my home.


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Colbyt said:


> I always start the next run with the cut piece from the last run. In most cases this makes for a truly random pattern and minimizes the number of flange cuts.
> 
> I would not care to see the pattern you pictured above on my home.


 +1 As I said in my post above..This is one of my pet peeves.I hate it when they make a pattern of the laps no matter how far apart they are.It's the first thing you notice when you look at the house.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

What type of siding is it.?
Dutch lap, etc......

If you say double 4-1/2" dutch lap, or similar, in my opinion, IT WOULD BE ASS WIPPEN TIME........


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

It's KP Products 4" traditional lap in 12' 6" length. 

I have them spacing the seams at 3' now (still somewhat step pattern) but it looks better than the original part. U fortunately I'm stuck w this siding crew and I didn't get the 16' boards.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

*Siding job not going well - What should I do?*

I signed a contract w a very reputable roofing company and they agreed to do the roof/siding/gutters, all contracts were signed. The roof was done first, install was flawless. Next came the siding..

The first day I noticed the "step" pattern on a small section every 16" had a seam going up which is shown in the pic below 









After going back and forth, and then talking to the owner of the roofing company they finally agreed to do 3 feet in a "step" pattern. I'm not sure why they fought this but I kept insisting. 

They are also wrapping the wood corners as well as the windows in a coil wrap. Right away I noticed a couple of the bigger posts had dings and scratches in them (on day 1 of install). I told the crew leader and he said you could just use touch up paint to fix it. I felt they shouldn't be scratched and dented upon install so I poked around and saw they were pre-cutting pieces and stacking them on top of each other causing scratches and dents. 

I figured I could solve this by talking to the owner of the roofing company and letting him know. I explained how the guy was cutting all the pieces at once and then storing them which caused the dents and scratches. He said he would take care of it and they started using a piece of XPS foam to set the pieces on.. 

So today after they had been working on the siding/coil trim I inspected the house and noticed the following...

The overlap was done different on the left of the door vs the right.

*To the left of my sliding door the seams are going one direction.. and to the right of the sliding door the seams are going another direction..*









When you look straight toward the house you only see the seams to the left of the sliding door.









To the right of the sliding door the seams are going another direction as shown here.









This job isn't going to look right if they don't redo it all going the same direction. The direction they're going to the right of the door hides the seams. How would you handle this? 

Then I started looking at the coil wrap they did today (keep in mind this is after talking to them about dents and scratches) and I noticed more dents and scratches on the corner posts and some smaller pieces they installed. 

It's hard to see in these small pics but if you run your finger over the scratch some of them are deep. This is a corner post of the house.


















"S" shaped scratch on another post









A different post with a dent in the edge.









This one isn't so bad, this is a window but still scratched.


















I left a message for the owner of the roofing company that I signed the contract with telling him the project is to be put on hold until we have a meeting. I'm worried this crew won't be able to do a good job, they've done about 1/3 of the house and have the entire second story and more of the first to do.

I'm looking for advice on what to do. I don't have much faith in these workers since I addressed several issues already and am still having issues. What would you guys do?

Would you demand that another crew do the work?

Thanks.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

This is how they're storing the pieces of coil after they cut them.









Scratch on a piece that hasn't been installed yet.









A bend in the side of a piece that hasn't been installed.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Just spoke to the owner and he said they did the different directions on purpose (just up to the top of the sliding door) so that when you walk outside and look to the left or right you don't see seams. He said this is how they normally do them and that above the sliding door it will all be in one direction.

He said the scratched and dented coil is not right and that stuff will have to be removed and redone. And that they will keep redoing it until it's right.


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## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Colbyt said:


> I always start the next run with the cut piece from the last run. In most cases this makes for a truly random pattern and minimizes the number of flange cuts.
> 
> I would not care to see the pattern you pictured above on my home.


Me too.




> I have a company doing the work. They did a great job on the roof and a different crew is doing the siding.
> I noticed a problem right away...
> I brought this up to the owner and he said to talk to the installer, which I did.


You signed one contract with one guy? It was his job to talk to his subcontractor (or employees) not yours.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I totally agree that it was his job to talk to his subs. He did talk to them but one of workers wasn't following his directions and may be off the project now. It's been frustrating to say the least.

They're redoing those 16" "steps" on the side of the garage right now. I have a lot of respect for the guy I signed the contract with so I've just been helping him make sure it's done right.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Just curious, any of you guys install KP Products siding? (I'm using the KP Maxim). The main installer said only one
distributor around here in IL carries it now, that Mastic is the big player. He said it may be tougher to get in the future but that I could always still order it.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

We found out that every bent and scratched piece of coil was done by the same installer. The pieces that look flawless were done by another guy. That guy will now be taking over the wrapping but if I didn't get involved the whole house would have had scratched/dented coil trim all around the house.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

So today after the owner came out, and the boss talked to everyone they resumed working on the house. The worker was doing the trim coil on the front porch area. 

After he left I was inspecting the job and I see scratches on every piece he put up. Some of the scratches are on the bend itself. 

Does anyone know what would cause this? Is he just installing it wrong? Do these types of scratches look normal?

I'm not sure what to do.. it's like the aluminum trim isn't getting done right. It's like they need to bring in a guy that knows how to do this. I just wanted to get some opinions on here though..

To the top-right of my front door.









Scratches here on the bend.









Big scratch on the fascia.









Another piece of wrap on the front porch.









Piece to the right of my front door has a scratch.









Another piece on top as you approach the patio. 









I wouldn't mind if there were 1 or 2 scratches, but almost every piece they're putting up has scratches. I was talking to the installer today and watched him bend a piece of coil and he was saying someone oiled the brake and it was going up and down too fast. 

Would this be considered acceptable work? Is there a reason the coil would be scratching so much on the bends, is that how he's bending it?


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Doesn't look like the installer knows how to use a hammer or a caulk gun either.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

The scratches could be caused from the break they are using to bend the metal.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ZTMAN said:


> Doesn't look like the installer knows how to use a hammer or a caulk gun either.


He just caulked that one part by the brick/coil. Did he not caulk that correctly? I know the other areas he still has to do.

What about the hammer? Is he putting the nails in too far?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ParagonEx said:


> The scratches could be caused from the break they are using to bend the metal.


That's what I was wondering too. Does this job they're doing look acceptable? Or should they redo these sections? (I'm trying to get an idea of what flaws are acceptable and which ones I need to put my foot down on)

The brake they're using is in my garage now, they have two brakes.. a large one for big pieces and a small one for the smaller pieces. I noticed the smaller pieces don't have this problem on the bend. 

Here's the brake, I noticed some wear on the parts that the coil sits on. Does this look bad?










I noticed some nicks on the machine as seen here.









Should this part be fixed?









This side looks to be in better shape where the other section is worn.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Send those pictures to the siding manufacturer for their opinion.?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ron45 said:


> Send those pictures to the siding manufacturer for their opinion.?


They redid the 16" step wall today and made it in 3 foot steps but they never attached the top panel. 

You're supposed to snap-lock the top panel and have a crown mold or a trim piece as well. I hope they're planning on doing that.. they have the trim, j-channel, and the wall has been resided but the top panel isn't secured yet.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

The aluminum looks awful and the caulk is going to look even worse when it gets dirty. I would have it all taken down and redone.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

djlandkpl said:


> The aluminum looks awful and the caulk is going to look even worse when it gets dirty. I would have it all taken down and redone.


Is it just the scratches and dents.. or are you seeing other parts of the aluminum that's done wrong? 

Also, what would I use instead of caulk? Or is he just using too much?

I'm trying to figure out how they're scratching all the aluminum coil. If it's a problem with the brake or just a bad installer 

Thanks for chiming in.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

cjaustin81 said:


> Is it just the scratches and dents.. or are you seeing other parts of the aluminum that's done wrong?
> 
> Also, what would I use instead of caulk? Or is he just using too much?
> 
> ...



It's the dents and scratches. You are paying for new work professionally installed. The coil stock that was on my house for 15 years looked better.

It's way too much caulk. It's a dirt magnet and will just look bad.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

djlandkpl said:


> It's the dents and scratches. You are paying for new work professionally installed. The coil stock that was on my house for 15 years looked better.
> 
> It's way too much caulk. It's a dirt magnet and will just look bad.


Thanks. The frustrating part is I addressed this with them twice already and it's still being put up bent and scratched so I'm not sure what to do. I posted pics of the brake their using above to bend the metal and it looks like maybe that could be causing it but I'm no expert at this.

As far as the caulk, I assume you're referring to where they caulked the brick to the coil. They haven't caulked much so far so I can always tell them to please be more careful but I'm really wondering if this crew is capable of even doing a good job. 

Would you demand they redo the coil trim again and again until it's right? Or would you request that they get someone else to do the work? (just curious)


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

cjaustin81 said:


> Thanks. The frustrating part is I addressed this with them twice already and it's still being put up bent and scratched so I'm not sure what to do. I posted pics of the brake their using above to bend the metal and it looks like maybe that could be causing it but I'm no expert at this.
> 
> As far as the caulk, I assume you're referring to where they caulked the brick to the coil. They haven't caulked much so far so I can always tell them to please be more careful but I'm really wondering if this crew is capable of even doing a good job.
> 
> Would you demand they redo the coil trim again and again until it's right? Or would you request that they get someone else to do the work? (just curious)


The damage on the brake could be the source and it seems the installer doesn't care since they are installing it anyway. Based on the pics, the caulk bead is too big. It's like they are using it to hide imperfections. 

If it was my house, they would keep redoing it until I was happy. Tell the contractor that you have the contract with that you aren't happy and want it redone. It's going to get expensive redoing the work over and over again and if the GC is smart, he will replace the sub to cut his losses.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. So the brake in those pics where it has the nicks looks damaged. That's the part I was trying to figure because until someone uses a machine w the part that bends is good, the scratches would continue. 

There's no excuse for the scratches on the face part of the coil or anywhere. The reason I'm doing all this investigative work is they're not being up front and possibly using tools causing this damage. 

The caulk issue is ridiculous too, they should have caulked better. I do have the contract but it doesn't really address redoing work but I will just keep making them redo it. I feel it's going to get to a point where the GC needs to get someone else or I need to fire this crew.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I noticed the top panel of siding on the wall they redid wasn't attached at the very top of the piece where they cut off the nailing strip so it creates a "wave" effect as you look at the row.. some sections are against the wall others aren't. You can push it in with your hand and it will go back/forth.

It looks like they just nailed a J-channel to my aluminum coil trim fascia, and then just have it loosely sitting in there. KP instructions say you should use a dual-undersill trim and then punched snap lock it into place.

The process is shown here from the manual










This is how they installed mine after they redid it.

It looks like they secured a J-channel with a nail to the aluminum coil (which they didn't reattach here when they redid it)









It looks just like a regular J-Chanel was used. Is this incorrect for the top panel and why mine isn't secured?


















How bad does this look? Or is this somehow an acceptable alternative way to install? Like I said my top panel isn't secured at the top.. if you take your hand you can move it back and forth.

Just looking for some insight here so I can make a determination on this siding crew and my next steps forward with all these issues, thanks.


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

There should be an undersill trim installed where the siding gets locked into. It appears yours isn't done that way.

As far as the break causing the damage, can't really say one way or the other without being the one actually performing the work. Minor imperfections (scratches) can easily be cleaned up with touch up paint.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ParagonEx said:


> There should be an undersill trim installed where the siding gets locked into. It appears yours isn't done that way.
> 
> As far as the break causing the damage, can't really say one way or the other without being the one actually performing the work. Minor imperfections (scratches) can easily be cleaned up with touch up paint.


I appreciate the comment. So they're not doing the top panel right it looks like. Would this be considered a rookie mistake? Or do some installers just use J-Chanel instead of an undersill trim?

Just trying to get a gauge if this is an all or nothing thing where they have to redo that too..

I don't mind a couple scratches, everyone makes mistakes. the problem I'm having is every piece they're putting up has some kind of scratch or dent on it. 

This project has been a nightmare, they've been working on the siding for 2 weeks and are not even 1/3 of the way done. Trying to determine if I should cut my losses now or let them keep fixing it.

Does this job from the pics I've put up look like a total hack job?


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## ParagonEx (Sep 14, 2011)

I would have to look over all the pictures again. There should be a J-channel and then the undersill trim that sits inside that J-Channel. A snap lock punch should be used on the piece of siding to hold it into the undersill trim. At the very least, there needs to be the undersill trim installed.

All siding guys have slightly different ways of doing things.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I just looked at all the windows they didn't use any undersill trim on those pieces either. It looks like they just used a J-Channel. Could this cause issues now the road w it installed like this? 

There has to be a reason the instructions say to use undersill trim.. my house gets a lot of wind that I would be worried about.

KP instructions say that every window should have a undersill trim









Here's what they did on 3 windows that are in a row. Looks like only J-Channel to me.









A single window, notice how the piece has a bigger gap between the J-channel then the windows above.









When I look closely at the edge they cut I don't see any snap lock punches.. I have no idea how they attached it but it doesn't look to be to an undersill trim.









Just looks like plain old J-Channel was used.









So now this brings me to the question.. how critical is that undersill trim under the windows?


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm not a pro siding guy.

Sometimes when the cut point of the siding is close the the z fold in the siding a J is the the better choice to prevent unnatural compression (1st pic). Then when another window is at a different height one should use the trim inside a J to maintain the same look and prevent the obvious gap you see in the second picture. That's the way I do it. I can not say whether that is "right" or not.

If the window was properly flashed and taped and the home water intrusion barrier is intact the tiny bit of water intrusion should cause no problems.



> It looks just like a regular J-Chanel was used. Is this incorrect for the top panel and why mine isn't secured?


IMO, it is not right but someone already told you the trim piece should be inside the J.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Had enough yet.?
Those corners are not suppose to be from coil stock neither.
I never use the undersill, I install a foam piece the thickness of the J channel. It makes it tight and full looking but allows movement, doesn't look crimped up, doesn't become wavy from expansion and extraction.

Metal is suppose to dive into something just like trim. Although they hemmed this it's not right and could be a finger pincher.











I see so much more, just don't feel like typing it, sorry.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ron45 said:


> Had enough yet.?
> Those corners are not suppose to be from coil stock neither.
> I never use the undersill, I install a foam piece the thickness of the J channel. It makes it tight and full looking but allows movement, doesn't look crimped up, doesn't become wavy from expansion and extraction.
> 
> ...


What should they use to wrap the corners if not coil stock? I see my neighbors house is wrapped w coil stock in the same spots (we have the same back of the house)

I inspected the materials and don't see any undersill trim pieces at all, just j-channel.

Just trying to figure out your last comment about metal diving into something, what did u mean by that?


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## oldfrt (Oct 18, 2007)

cjaustin81 said:


> I just looked at all the windows they didn't use any undersill trim on those pieces either. It looks like they just used a J-Channel. Could this cause issues now the road w it installed like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Been reading this thread for a few days,and I just need to address a few of the issues you're having:
The way the windows are capped could lead to water intrusion because of capillary action off the sills and behind the J.
The right way would have been to have the sill cap return over the siding. If the Z-fold is close to the bottom of the sill,just have to build the sill out to allow for running the sill over this joint.

On the top piece,definitely finish trim.Some panels,like Certainteed Monogram have a sure lock fit that also holds from the bottom,along with the snap lock.Guaranteed not to blow off.Thin siding panels will not hold the crimp of the snap lock so hopefully this is a full weight panel.

Now on to the coil bends:
Real hard to fathom using coil for corners,since many times they're prone to damage.Maybe its acceptable in some locations but I rarely see it.
I know that regular corners would be more expensive,especially the wider ones,but we figure that into each job.Got to look at the long term for durability and appearance.

The dents on the corner are just the beginning if these weren't installed so they have some movement.

A lot of the scratches in the coil look like they'll clean up;some are caused by the raw aluminum edge rubbing on the face.Some are into the finish and could be touched up if you feel like you need to pick your battles with this Co.

The fact this crew started with 16"steps in the siding would show they haven't been trained correctly.Since the owner said they've been doing it this way for twenty years I'd say that they are not aware of proper installation per manufacturers instructions.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

http://www.certainteed.com/products/vinyl-siding/vinyl-carpentry-trim/corner-systems/345919


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks a bunch Ron, that's the product I will insist on. You've been a bunch of help so far, I appreciate it!


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I would imagine I can still use the certainteed corner posts with the KP siding? 

It looks like they were bending mine out of coil stock around 5 1/2" wide so maybe the 6" corner posts would look best. I would just need to see if I can get it in a "shell" white to match the rest of the trim on the fascia etc. I noticed they even sell an 8" fascia piece as well. They were planning on wrapping that I believe so maybe that's another option. 

Would you recommend having the fascia wrapped in coil stock or using a product like certainteed has?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm looking at the front porch that they did. I have no idea why he would have just put 1 piece of coil wrap on the right side of the door. I was planning on painting my front door a new color along with the left/right side window and trim area. Such as a flint grey or something fun. 

Is there any reason they should be coil wrapping this? Or should this be left wood to paint like the rest of the front door area?

It's the area just to the right of the front door, along the brick.









I noticed it's not even and not even flush with the wood. It sticks out and looks terrible.


















Should this strip be taken off and left wood?


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## mako1 (Jan 7, 2014)

If these guys are that inept at siding I would be concerned as to how they are nailing it.Siding should be hung.This is something you can't see from the finished job but has more bearing on how the siding will hold up than most other things.
The nails should be placed in the center of the slots and be left proud around an 1/8" to allow for seasonal movement .If this is not done you will have all kinds of bows and waves.
I would also not accept those corners and no utility trim .Especially under windows.The siding will droop and cause the lock to come loose or be wavy.
There should be UT under all window and at the eaves.The cut siding should be punched and attached in UT.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

mako1 said:


> If these guys are that inept at siding I would be concerned as to how they are nailing it.Siding should be hung.This is something you can't see from the finished job but has more bearing on how the siding will hold up than most other things.
> The nails should be placed in the center of the slots and be left proud around an 1/8" to allow for seasonal movement .If this is not done you will have all kinds of bows and waves.
> I would also not accept those corners and no utility trim .Especially under windows.The siding will droop and cause the lock to come loose or be wavy.
> There should be UT under all window and at the eaves.The cut siding should be punched and attached in UT.


Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure if he's leaving them all an 1/8" proud. Some are centered, others aren't. I took some pics.

This one is centered, but not sure if it's 1/8" proud



























these nails aren't centered, and one slot has 2 nails in it









How does this nailing look?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I was looking at some of the windows they did and some of this doesn't look right to me. If you can look at it and let me know I would appreciate it.

here's a corner they did









The window wrap isn't laying flush as seen here, there is a small hole/gap in the corner. Not sure if that's bad or just cosmetic.









front of that same window, notice how the coil isn't flat but wavy.









Basement storm window, notice the huge gaps. Should this have been done different?









Side of the basement storm window, looks like the cuts aren't flush. 









Another angle of a different storm window.









This is how they're storing my siding.









I was worried about pieces getting crushed.









They repaired rotted wood under my sliding door and flashed it with the same coil wrap they have used on my windows and corners. Is this an acceptable material to flash with or should they be using something else?










This project has been a nightmare  I feel like I have to prove everything to this company on what they should be experts on.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm fairly sure they have some favorite names for you also. 

Not that I would lose any sleep over that. Honestly it does not look like a quality install for the wraps and trim.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Another thing I noticed is they didn't Tyvek tape the seams in the Tyvek. They said they only need to tape the vertical seams and that they would do it as they went along. Even though my house has been exposed to the elements without siding for 2 weeks.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Colbyt said:


> I'm fairly sure they have some favorite names for you also.
> 
> Not that I would lose any sleep over that. Honestly it does not look like a quality install for the wraps and trim.


As the customer I don't know what else to do though.. this isn't just being "picky". These are some really big issues. Not that it matters but I'm paying $15,200 for the siding install and coil wrap. Half my house is brick keep in mind too.. house is 2,300 sq/ft. 

I agree the wraps and trim is the worst part of this whole install. I would like to use certainteed corner posts. 

I'm going to have to put a stop to this siding project as it's only 1/3 of the way done and all the aluminum coil needs to come down and they didn't do an undersill trim on all the windows so that would need to be redone.. by that point almost all the siding will be off..


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

You are going to give yourself a heart attack. Tell you general to get rid of these guys and hire someone who knows what they are doing so you dont have to baby sit them.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've never felt so taken advantage of before in my life as I do now. I appreciate everyone's patience on here and helping me figure out these issues.

I went to go water my plants in the back yard and noticed they broke the top piece on my faucet and it now leaks. The faucet also moves back and forth and doesn't feel like it's secured to anything. It was nice and itght before these people worked on my house.

Were they supposed to put a bracket to hold the faucet tight? I'm preparing my full list of issues right now.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

What caused the black mark on the trim above the faucet


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ZTMAN said:


> What caused the black mark on the trim above the faucet


I have no idea, these installers have put marks on everything though. A lot of it has to do with them stacking these things on top of other items and just being careless. 

I'm trying to figure out if the faucet should move or if they should have secured it? I can literally push and pull the whole faucet unit in and out of the siding about 1"..

Should they have mounted it to wood?


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Get rid of the bums, maybe get a lawyer.?????????

If the contractor ask why, well, Stealers Wheel comes to mind, show him this video...


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Normally there is a screw on each in the little cutout section to hold the faucet in position.

I hate to say this about a job I haven't personally seen but I fully agree with:


> I'm going to have to put a stop to this siding project as it's only 1/3 of the way done and all the aluminum coil needs to come down and they didn't do an undersill trim on all the windows so that would need to be redone.. by that point almost all the siding will be off.


Tell the GC the work stops until inspected by the siding MFG rep because you have some serious doubts about the quality of the work.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Instead of dealing with this aluminum coil issue it seems I could be using professional products right form KP. And these products are vinyl FX. 

They make 6" Traditional corners, 5" Trim Lineal, 8" Fascia, Window/Door cap, soffits, and they even have a ton of pre-cut aluminum. I should be using all this >

http://www.kpproducts.com/p-trimfx.htm

http://www.kpproducts.com/docs/2009_KP_Aluminum_Catalog.pdf


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

cjaustin81 said:


> It's the area just to the right of the front door, along the brick.
> 
> 
> I noticed it's not even and not even flush with the wood. It sticks out and looks terrible
> ...


After seeing this piece, I now believe they are clueless.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> After seeing this piece, I now believe they are clueless.


My dad grew up in Unionville/Markham btw. Love going up there to visit, we go fishing up in the Winnepeg River System. :thumbsup:

Correct me if I'm wrong but they shouldn't have put a piece there at all, just kept it wood. Right?

I was going to paint the front door and side panel something fun like a flint grey. I want this to look good, I can't see how having a white trim piece there would even look good. There's wood below the door too, I assume that should stay wood as well and paint it.

This installer is like a bull in a china shop. He's dented and scratched everything.. even that piece has a scratch in it right towards the top part.. I'm losin my f'n balls over here and this f'n morons playin hazel!


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Pinched finger.?????


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

cjaustin81 said:


> My dad grew up in Unionville/Markham btw. Love going up there to visit, we go fishing up in the Winnepeg River System. :thumbsup:
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but they shouldn't have put a piece there at all, just kept it wood. Right?
> 
> ...


Have them remove that piece and clean up the caulking. The caulk will never all come off though.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> Have them remove that piece and clean up the caulking. The caulk will never all come off though.


They're going to have to remove everything, all of the pieces of coil were put up scratched. I checked the caulk and it's still soft, hopefully I can get a product that will help remove it all so it can't be seen. 

I have the GC coming out tonight to address the situation and where we go from here but with the siding being nailed incorrectly and the trim all needing to be redone everything is going to have to come down I feel and start fresh.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I called KP up today, got a rep # and they said he will only get involved or even look at the house if it's a warranty related issue.

I asked the rep about getting KP TrimFX and he said it comes from Montreal and we would have to wait for a truck that will probably never come.. he indicated there's really no way to get it in the Chicagoland area. Just unreal that they advertise a product you can't get in Chicago..

I asked him several siding install questions too and he asked who my GC was, I told him the name and he knew who they were and kept telling me they have such a great reputation and that they will be able to answer all these and figure them out.

I told the rep I just wanted to know my trim options.. and he indicated that my GC should know all that, that I should talk to him. He mentioned they sell a 3 1/2" corner piece I can get, I asked him what other options they have.. he said my GC can tell me..

I feel like I'm going around and around.. since when can't a rep tell you about there product?


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

Sounds like you got a lot of BS. The manuf rep said the general has such a great reputation, but he is not even doing the siding work. If the general has such a great rep with the siding manuf, why isn't he the one doing the work?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

cjaustin81 said:


> I called KP up today, got a rep # and they said he will only get involved or even look at the house if it's a warranty related issue.
> 
> I asked the rep about getting KP TrimFX and he said it comes from Montreal and we would have to wait for a truck that will probably never come.. he indicated there's really no way to get it in the Chicagoland area. Just unreal that they advertise a product you can't get in Chicago..
> 
> ...


What a crock of shhhtuff.......


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ZTMAN said:


> Sounds like you got a lot of BS. The manuf rep said the general has such a great reputation, but he is not even doing the siding work. If the general has such a great rep with the siding manuf, why isn't he the one doing the work?


I agree with you. I still haven't determined if the company was subcontracted or it's his own guys. I will ask the GC the question tonight. He told me these siders have been w him for "years" so it has me wondering. 

The GC does have a good reputation and everyone seems to be focused on pointing that out instead of helping me.

I finally found out why the rep said I can't get the trim fx, I can get it but there's restriction on how much I have to buy to get a shipment down to Chicago (I had to ask for a manager at KP, I found out that rep I talked to was new). 

They said I can use any of Abtco Timbercrest accessories (since it's .046 like my siding) such as the corner post, etc but they only come in white. I'll be talking to my GC about that tonight when he comes over to see the job that was done.

KP Rep said he can't come out to see the install unless I have a warranty claim open. They also said they wouldn't warranty any of there siding if it's installed wrong.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Before I meet w the GC I have a question. Should they have taped ALL tyveks seams? Or just the vertical seams?

The GC told me a week ago they are only supposed to tyvek tape the vertical seams and that they didn't need to take any horizontal seams.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Not required for water but suggested for air.

Source:http://chicagohomeprimer.com/editable/uploads/File/Tyvek InstallGuideWRB_K16282.pdf


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Just an update, the GC came out and agreed with everything I said. He fired the old crew and whole heatedly apologized. He's a good guy and he will make this right. I guess this job was very uncharacteristic of his company.

He couldn't believe they didn't even nail right, no US trim, terrible cuts in the siding, dents and scratches in the coil.

I appreciate everyone's patience and help in this matter. 

So now with that being said, he's proposed to have a new crew do the work, everything will be removed and redone from scratch. I'm considering going with a Smart Trim for the trim, I have to see what the difference will be in cost since I can get 4" in 10' for $38 locally and he can get better prices.

I will update everyone as this progresses.. :thumbsup:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I told the GC to play this for the sub. I'm looking into how much more Smart Trim will cost otherwise I'll have the new crew coil wrap the wood and do it right.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I doubt the contractor will play that for the guys, you do know that's a gay song right.?
You do know Dave Mason is gay right.?


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

The current version may be perceived that way, like it matters.

The song is old and previously recorded by others, Billy Dean being one.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ron45 said:


> I doubt the contractor will play that for the guys, you do know that's a gay song right.?
> You do know Dave Mason is gay right.?


I don't see why that matters. It's a good song.

He was a founding member of the legendary group Traffic.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

You have to listen to the words.
"There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy,,,,,,,,"

I'm not even going to post what else I found out...

Just saying I don't think he would go there, construction workers don't care about getting into trouble.


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## Jessy156 (Aug 17, 2015)

Seems like at least the GC was a really good choice...


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

The quote I received to do all my trim in Smart Side was $5,600 installed, painted, etc. They would have to remove all the existing trim and install Smart Siding on the Fascia, solid and vented soffits, all corner boards with two coats, “cedar” white trim I thought the quote was high but he said normally it would be $8,000 but since I had all these issues he would get it lower. 

Since I don't have that kind of money to toss at just trim since that would be 1/3 the price of the entire siding job I was thinking I could just do all the corner posts in the smart side and wrap all the fasica, soffits, and horizontal band trim in coil (we're going to get the thicker 0.024 this time). 

Do you think that would look ok? Basically it would be the Smart side on the vertical corner posts and the gable/fascia/soffit would all be wrapped. He said they can get the same color for both. 

My other option is to go with a vinyl corner post but then the issue is do I do all the trim then in vinyl? When I asked the question he said his recommendation would be to use thicker coil wrap vs vinyl, but he liked the idea of combining the 2 (smart side corner pieces w everything else in thicker coil). I'm just waiting to hear back on the price for that.

* Trim Options:*

1) Wrap everything in .024 coil.
2) Use Vinyl in as many trim areas as I can.
3) use a combination of smart trim (on corners) and wrap (everything else)

here's a pic of the house to see the trim 









back of the house where most of the vertical corner pieces are









My concern is how good would it look if you combined the coil and smart side. The GC said he could run the smart side up vertically and then where the horizontal panel (bands) starts he would but the coil wrap to the edge and make it look good.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I also found out that I have a couple mutual friends w the foreman of the siding crew that we let go so I can find out what kind of work he really does. From what I can see he does HVAC, topcoat sealing, but I couldn't find any siding jobs he has done. Seems like a general handyman that is skilled in several areas..

The top photos are my old roof (GAF Weathered Wood).

This is the new roof they just installed (Tamko Aged Wood)


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Has anyone ever used gutter coil to wrap wood trim? 

The GC suggested that we used gutter coil to wrap the corner posts & fascia to provide a more durable product and use the regular coil wrap for the windows and the rest.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

*Siding Subs - Walked off the job, need advice.*

I'm in the midst of a siding project. The company I hired did the roof, and did an excellent job but they brought in a subcontractor for the siding/gutters/coil wrap. The first crew did such a bad job due to improper nailing of the siding, scratching every piece of coil wrap they put up, etc.

So the owner of the roofing company (who I have the contract with) brought in another crew to do the siding. They agreed the other crew did a poor job and ripped all the work down to start fresh. We found out the previous crew ordered the wrong coil stock and had improperly installed the coil wrap.

Fast forward now to this new crew, who I was told was "the best". The owner of the roofing company brought them in special for all the coil wrap and trim, once that was done they are supposed to bring in a crew of 4 guys to do the siding. The coil wrap team is just the 2 guys. One speaks English and translates Polish to English for his boss who is also there. We've only gotten to the coil wrap so far.. the siding is yet to be done.

I had WATER COMING in from the windows they removed coil wrap on this past Friday. Water came into the house because they had no drip cap or anything sealing the outside of the windows (siding and old coil wrap was removed). 

When they came this morning I told them about the water and the one guy started to rip off the tarp and I told him to leave it, until the new windows arrive (they were going to install new windows). They told me it wasn't caused by them removing the coil wrap, but I indicated I didn't have any water coming in before they removed it. They said it wasn't from them. (keep in mind those windows were wrapped with coil stock and caulked before they touched them)

I then showed them a scratch they tried to touch up on the coil wrap that was on a corner post and the Polish boss just lost his cool, grabbed his ladder, and walked off the job.. As he was walking off the job I asked his assistant who speaks English what was the deal and he indicated I was being "too picky". They then left. 

I immediately called the owner of the roofing company and he said this is how European guys can be, they take offense to everything. He said for me to let them do there job and that we will all inspect it at the end. He wants them to go back and finish the job but not to interrupt them or point anything out that I see, which leaves me a bit uneasy.

As the homeowner, I'm not sure what to do. Have any of you guys had to deal with a situation like this? Is it best to let them finish up and feel like I'm on pins and needles with them?

They're supposed to install my new windows too (6 of them)


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

You can't win. I would direct your issues to the roofing contractor since he's paying the sub. You might ask him to be on site daily at a time that is agreeable so you can review the completed work and the next day's plan.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Got some pictures?
Trim coil should not need to be caulked if it's installed correctly.
Not sure how it works around there but around here there's dozens of company's that do nothing but siding, may be time to find someone on your own.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

djlandkpl said:


> You can't win. I would direct your issues to the roofing contractor since he's paying the sub. You might ask him to be on site daily at a time that is agreeable so you can review the completed work and the next day's plan.


This is good advice. I want everyone to be happy in the end, however I just have to make sure my bases are covered as well.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

djlandkpl said:


> You can't win. I would direct your issues to the roofing contractor since he's paying the sub. You might ask him to be on site daily at a time that is agreeable so you can review the completed work and the next day's plan.


He's been stopping by almost everyday to "check on" the job. It seems he wants to wait until the siding and coil wrap is completely done before we go around and look at things.

I agree with you though, I feel like this should be done daily. And not when the job is done. I will talk to him about this.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

joecaption said:


> Got some pictures?
> Trim coil should not need to be caulked if it's installed correctly.
> Not sure how it works around there but around here there's dozens of company's that do nothing but siding, may be time to find someone on your own.


So far they've only done the basement windows. Here's an example of one. I think the trim work looks really good, let me know what you think.

You can see the caulk on the inside and outside edges.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I thought that window looked good, much better than the previous crew who just left it without any wrapping. The only thing that kinda concerns me is the new crew that wrapped the window said to me "nobody else would do this kind of work like that". As if their work is the best.. 

Let me know what you guys think.


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## djlandkpl (Jan 29, 2013)

Waiting is partially ok. I wouldn't want the job to get to the point where lots of stuff is getting pulled down to fix something.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

djlandkpl said:


> Waiting is partially ok. I wouldn't want the job to get to the point where lots of stuff is getting pulled down to fix something.


That was my attitude, catch it early on and it will be easier to fix and cost less. I get the feeling their just trying to get it done so I notice less because I'll be looking at a myriad of items then versus a couple now.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Only have that one close up to go by, nut have no idea why there using J molding at the bottom of the wall and not a starter strip.
J molding is going to act like a small gutter and stick out.
Starter strip needs to be set low enough to cover where the wall meets the foundation.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

joecaption said:


> Only have that one close up to go by, nut have no idea why there using J molding at the bottom of the wall and not a starter strip.
> J molding is going to act like a small gutter and stick out.
> Starter strip needs to be set low enough to cover where the wall meets the foundation.


The J-channel above the window is actually above where the siding will start. There will be J-channel on the top and sides of that window. The starter strips are above where the Tyvek stops in th pic (to the right and left of the window).


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

cjaustin81 said:


> This is good advice. I want everyone to be happy in the end, however I just have to make sure my bases are covered as well.


Please don't start more than one thread on the same topic. 

Threads merged.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

kwikfishron said:


> Please don't start more than one thread on the same topic.
> 
> Threads merged.


The reason I started a new thread was because this thread was specific to the subcontractor walking off the job. 

The other thread was in regards to the craftsmanship of the work. This is an entirely different crew than the last post described and I didn't want to clutter the two together, I thought this would be a lot clearer.

Otherwise someone would go through 7 pages which isn't pertinent to this issue.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

New crew is back and work is progressing..

Even though it's a new decorative non-functional gable vent, this crew still did flashing and special channel around it.. I was pretty impressed with that. There is no gap between the siding and the gable vent.

* Coil is Mastic T024 in white.
* Siding is KP Clay.
* ISO Quad caulk.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

another day of progress. The new crew isn't just wrapping the windows in regular fashion, they added a dimensional style design to their wrap. 

I need to paint the actual window, but here's how they wrap them.


















side is redone on the garage, 6 foot seams. wrap done in the Mastic 024.


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

That is first class work. I hope you will plug the contractor and the sub (not necessarily here  )


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

We're glad your happy with this contractor. 

Since this is a DIY site, and your 2 previous post were just plugs for him, they have been removed.

This thread has served its purpose. Thread closed.


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