# NEMA 10-30R to NEMA 5-15P wiring?



## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The L shaped slot is the ground. The other two are the 240 volt hots.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

So I run the wires like this?:

120V plug 240V receptacle
BLACK-------------->hot/LEFT slot
WHITE-------------->hot/RIGHT slot
GREEN-------------->GROUND/L-shaped bottom slot


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> I just bought an electric vehicle, and the included charger for it WILL charge using a 240V power supply, but the manufacturer only uses a 120V 5-15P Plug, limiting me from connecting to a 240V power source without purchasing a new EVSE(charger). The European version of my car uses the exact same charger, but with the higher voltage plug they use over there, so a lot of people have converted their chargers to 240V by removing the factory plug and adding a 240V plug, like L14-20P, L6-30P...and I did see one person using a 10-30R receptacle their dryer uses...so I know this works on my car.
> 
> So my question is, what is the PROPER wiring of a NEMA 10-30R to 5-15P connector/converter?
> 
> thanks!



You will need to know the full load current of the charger, as well as the size of the flexible cord from the charger. A 30 amp circuit may or may not be to code. 

DO you have pics of the charger?




joed said:


> The L shaped slot is the ground. The other two are the 240 volt hots.


The L shaped slot is a neutral. A NEMA 10-30r is a non grounding type receptacle which has no ground.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> You will need to know the full load current of the charger, as well as the size of the flexible cord from the charger. A 30 amp circuit may or may not be to code.
> 
> DO you have pics of the charger?
> 
> ...


So how would you wire it then? 

*120V PLUG______10-30R*

BLACK ------------>(left or right flat, slanted prong)(hot)
GREEN(ground)--->not used
WHITE------------->bottom, L-shaped prong(neutral)


The charger pulls 12 amps MAX. The vehicle is hard-wired to NOT pull any more. The flexible cord is supposed to be thick enough, lots of ppl convert theirs to utilize a 240V receptacle without issues. From what I've read online, I believe it is 14AWG on the cord going from the charger, to the wall receptacle. The earlier ones were 16AWG, and they changed the design the 14AWG.

This particular car has a very low limit on the amount of amps that it can accept. A lot of newer electric vehicles draw up to 20 amps I believe, but in my case, I wont be using any more than 12 amps, since I don't need to, and the car wont anyway.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm here with my 5 feet of SJOOW 10AWG 3-conductor wire, 5-15R receptacle & 10-30P plug...trying to figure out how the heck to wire the two together.

I want to be dang sure, because it's very expensive to purchase a new EVSE(charger) if I burn this one out.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> So how would you wire it then?
> 
> *120V PLUG______10-30R*
> 
> ...



Assuming 12 amps at 240 volts you will need to change the plug to a NEMA 6-15 and install a NEMA 6-15r receptacle with a 15 amp breaker or a NEMA 6-20r with a 20amp breaker.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Unless the charger is rated 120-240 vac changing the plug and simply plugging it into 240 volts may kill your charger. I am skeptical all anybody else is doing is simply changing the plug.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

My 10-30R receptacle is right in front of my car's parking spot, and it is already on a dedicated 30A breaker. So I think at least, I don't have to worry about running a new set of wires to a new breaker, or space in my breaker box.

FYI, the EVSE is NOT a charger, the charger is onboard the car actually...the EVSE stands for Electric Vehicle Service Equipment..

Meaning the EVSE just 1. checks for 110V input, 2. tells the car its about to get 110V, then 3. the car communicates "OK we will only draw 12 Amps at 110V" and then the car starts charging at 12 amps. It doesn't "charge" the vehicle, it just carried the supply to the charger on the car.

BUT people have had success taking it apart, and resoldering a 14-30P plug using 10AWG/3 conductor wire to the board. In this instance, the logic board senses the 240V supply, and switches accordingly, tells the car to draw at [email protected] 12 Amps, then it starts charging at 240V. This reduces the charge time considerably...from 10 hours down to under 5 hours.

In this configuration, they use a 14-30R receptacle connected to a standard 5-15P plug that comes with the EVSE, and the 14AWG 3-conductor wire it came with. This allows us to plug the now-240V charger into a standard 110V socket, and still charge at 110V...if we find ourselves off the beaten path with no dryer outlets to plug into anywhere, and only regular wall outlets(5-15R's).

I just thought that maybe there was a way to skip all that soldering, and just plug into the stupid wall already lol.

Here is one of the YouTube videos explaining how to do this modification, showing the circuit board, the wires, the receptacles, the whole soldering process, and actually using it on a Chevy Volt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-_pfCtPu4

It looks like I might just use my dedicated 20A line from the laundry room to install a 14-30R receptacle if just swapping wires wouldn't work.

14-30 is a very, very popular configuration for the 240V EVSE's here in the USA, so IF I cant figure out how to get this to plug into my 10-30R receptacle, I will have to pursue the proper knowledge needed to convert my existing 10-30R receptacle to a 14-30R receptacle. This way, at least if anyone else wants to charge their EV at my house, they wont fry anything, it will match up perfectly to THEIR EVSE's, as well, since they pretty common.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

My point exactly;

It tells the car it is about to get 110 (120 actuslly) volts


But it isn't unless the evse is designed to accept 120 or 240 volts. Your car is about to get a double shot espresso of 240 volts. Current draw is irrelevant at this point.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

If the charger wont draw more than 12 amps then you could just leave the cord as is. But, I have to ask. How do you know the charger will not go over 12 amps?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

nap said:


> My point exactly;
> 
> It tells the car it is about to get 110 (120 actuslly) volts
> 
> ...


 The car and the EVSE(charger assist device) are fully compatible with 240V supply.

Its the EXACT same charger used in the UK, where they have 125/250V. So putting 240V shouldn't be a problem, provided it is wired correctly. So, yeah its components are designed for it, and people are doing it. Out of maybe 30 r so ppl that have done it, I saw 1 guy smoked his, but probably due to a mistake in wiring on his part, or a bad connection.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> If the charger wont draw more than 12 amps then you could just leave the cord as is. But, I have to ask. How do you know the charger will not go over 12 amps?


Because that is the whole job of the EVSE, to limit draw, and protect the car's electronics/battery. It allows us to plug in our EVSE's and know we wont be drawing any more than X amount. I guess usefull if you are concerned with melting wires because of drawing more than the wiring in X receptacle can handle.

We can switch it down to an 8 amp limit, but it takes much longer to charge.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Its the EXACT same charger used in the UK, where they have 220V I believe. So, yeah its components are design for it, and people are doing it. out of maybe 30 r so ppl that have done it, I saw 1 guy smoked his, but probably due to a mistake on his part.



Was that by just changing the plug or opening up the unit? Changing the plug might not be enough, dip switches, jumpers or simply soldering the wires to a different terminal tell the unit to run at 240 instead of 120. If that is the exact same charger in the videos as yours the guy cut some jumpers and then soldered the wires in different spots... which leads be to believe the unit might not like getting hit with 240 without modification.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Because that is the whole job of the EVSE, to limit draw, and protect the car's electronics/battery. It allows us to plug in our EVSE's and know we wont be drawing any more than X amount. I guess usefull if you are concerned with melting wires because of drawing more than the wiring in X receptacle can handle.
> 
> We can switch it down to an 8 amp limit, but it takes much longer to charge.


So you can tell the car to pull less amps? Its selectable? Not doubting you, just want to make sure.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Then, electronics are often very sensitive to having a earth ground. Using the 3 prong 240 volt recep you are eliminating the earth ground. 

But, it's your equipment so you do what you want.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Was that by just changing the plug or opening up the unit? Changing the plug might not be enough, dip switches, jumpers or simply soldering the wires to a different terminal tell the unit to run at 240 instead of 120. If that is the exact same charger in the videos as yours the guy cut some jumpers and then soldered the wires in different spots... which leads be to believe the unit might not like getting hit with 240 without modification.


 My charger is the exact one in the videos, which is a 125V being converted to a 240V. They come with all 2013-2014 Chevy Volts. The ones in the US are configured for 125V, and the UK ones being configured for 240V.

Yeah that's what I was afraid of. I figured I would ask a few different sources to see what I could find. Thanks for the replies man. Its looking to me like I'm going to have to pull the 10-30R receptacle's box out, look inside, and *see if there are 4 wires* to convert it to a more common 14-30R.

Hopefully it does, because I'm thinking I HAVE to have those 4 wires, since obviously, in the video, there are 4 wires running TO it. Later on in the end of the video, he shows you how to use the re-wired unit to run an adapter using a 14-30R Receptacle, and a standard 15-5P plug to plug into a regular 125V 15-5R receptacle found on nearly every wall outlet in the country.

If it does, ill run back to Home Depot and return the 10-30P and 5-15R and buy a 14-30P, 14-30R and a 5-15P and just emulate what the people do online, except instead of a 14-50R & 14-50P, I would be using a lower rated 14-30R & 14-30P, since my wiring is only rated at 30 amps.

I just starting *today* reading about all these different NEMA configurations, and why they are the way they are, and what it all means. Never really read about it before, but it is an interesting endeavor!


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Well you have a lot of research to do.


Does the charger require a neutral?

How much current draw at 240 volts?

Can the charger automatically adjust to 240, or does it indeed have to be modified like in the video?

There is a lot at play, and you have to know before anything is done.

BTW, if you charger is straight 240 you will need configurations starting with NEMA 6-... If 120/240 NEMA 14-...

NEMA 10-30 and other 10-... devices are not for your applications and no longer to code. So in any case that receptacle is not for your application.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

nap said:


> Then, electronics are often very sensitive to having a earth ground. Using the 3 prong 240 volt recep you are eliminating the earth ground.
> 
> But, it's your equipment so you do what you want.


Exactly the input Im looking for. Im not saying you guys are wrong and that Im dead-set on wiring it up like that...I just wanted to ask you guys if that's not possible. It didn't seem right to me, since you are dropping the ground. Not sure how the heck THAT would work...but I figured I would ask before completely dismissing the idea first before know for sure it is not a good idea. Doesn't sound good to me either lol, that why Im here asking lol.

Thanks again for the input bro.

Like I said above, looks like Im going to have to peel back the cover on the 10-30R I used to use my dryer on, and see if by chance it already has the proper 4-conducter wiring so I can just wire in the 14-40R, or if I am going to have to run a dang ground? 

If I DO NOT find a 4-conductor wiring behind the 10-30R, but only a 3-conductor wire...what do I do? Do I use the (green) ground as ground, the (white) neutral to neutral, the black (red) to hot, and add another breaker with another 125V(110V?) supply wire to the same spot and connect all of it into the new 14-30R I would be installing?

GREEN------GREEN 
BLACK------BLACK
WHITE------WHITE
RED--------RED (added 125V supply from breaker)


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Well you have a lot of research to do.
> 
> 
> Does the charger require a neutral?


YES, in the video the way he did it, it definitely has a neutral.



Jump-start said:


> How much current draw at 240 volts?


The charger is switchable from 8/12 amps 110V to 240V on either 125V or 240V supply.

It ends up costing 13.0 kWh to completely charge the battery from dead, over a 4-5 hour period. Unless, of course, you use the 5-15P on Level 1(120V) charging, then its a full 10 hours! :0

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?7154-Amp-draw

at that link someone stated:

"The National Electrical Code specifies that a single device connected to a circuit must not draw more than 80 percent of the rated current of the circuit breaker. For a 120 volt circuit with a 15 amp breaker the max current draw for a single device is 12 amps. For a 240 volt circuit with a 20 amp breaker the max current draw for a single device is 16 amps. "

I would imaging, THAT is why the EVSE's are programmed to draw a max of 12 amps on 120V (15 amp breaker x 80% = 12 amps) and 16 amps on 240V(20 amp breaker x 80% = 16 amps).




Jump-start said:


> Can the charger automatically adjust to 240, or does it indeed have to be modified like in the video?


CHARGER APPARENTLY DOES HAVE TO BE MODIFIED, *BUT* DEFINATELY SENSES 125/240V SUPPLY AND SWITCHES ACCORDINGLY ONCE RESOLDERED AS SHOWN.



Jump-start said:


> There is a lot at play, and you have to know before anything is done.
> 
> BTW, if you charger is straight 240 you will need configurations starting with NEMA 6-... If 120/240 NEMA 14-...


The way it comes, it is just 120V or so, with the mod I think its 220-240V OR 125V or so. I don't know the exact numbers, but they are in those ballparks, in those different configurations.

I would prefer 14-30R/P since that is what my buddys have, and is pretty popular for newer washer and dryer outlets, increasing the likely-hood of me being able to have more charging opportunities when away from home. Like at friends & familie's homes. I could always make a couple extra connectors that might fit other popular connectors.

The EVSE unit will not draw more than 12 amps on 120V and 16 amps on 240V, and the CAR itself cannot draw more than 16 amps, anyways..even if you DID plug it into a higher-amp EVSE(charge). SO in either case, my 30A breaker and circuit with a 14-30 receptacle and plug would work just fine, right?




Jump-start said:


> NEMA 10-30 and other 10-... devices are not for your applications and no longer to code. So in any case that receptacle is not for your application.


Well, my dryer runs on a 10-30R, and I use it rarely, so I was planning on just keeping the 10-30R and switching from dryer and EVSE(charging) as needed, or mounting a switch to switch from the dryer to the EVSE(charging) so as not to draw too much at one time. The switch would limit me from running both on the same circuit.

Now, Im realizing I could just get another cord for the dryer, and use a more modern plug and get rid of that old 10-30R crap. Provided I have the wiring for it.
[/QUOTE]

thanks again for the responses, Im getting closer to figuring this out. The car is already fully charged, so I can unplug it, figure out which breaker it is on, switch that breaker off, and go in there and open it up, and see if there are 4 conductors in that wiring or not. I will report back. Fingers crossed!


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Well here is the thing, you will have to find out if your charger needs only 240 volts or 120/240. 240 does not require a neutral, while 120/240 needs a neutral. 

120/240 will require a white in the box and a ground (4 wires). 

240 will just require a ground (2 hots and ground). If no ground is present in this case, the white can be re-identified as a ground and if the circuit is coming from a subpanel the white tapped green is moved to the ground bar. 


The amperage will also dictate what circuit breaker and outlet.

If the charger will not pull more than 12 amps a 15 amp breaker with a NEMA 6-15 or NEMA 14-15 plug will do.

If the charger will not pull more than 16 amps a 20amp breaker with a NEMA 6-20 or 14-20r.

If the charger pulls 24 amps a 30amp breaker and a NEMA 6-30 or NEMA 14-30r will be used.

The cord must be large enough to handle the current draw.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Well here is the thing, you will have to find out if your charger needs only 240 volts or 120/240. 240 does not require a neutral, while 120/240 needs a neutral.
> 
> 120/240 will require a white in the box and a ground (4 wires).
> 
> ...


From what I understand, in 120V operation, only ONE of the two hots is used on the 240V board, so it effectively is half(120V) of the 240V current. 

Does that sound right?

and yes, the max amps pulled will be 16 amps, so yeah a 20 amps connector would do, but I DO have a 30A circuit, and 14-30 is the most common plug and receptacle on 240V EVSE's used to charge electric vehicles. These (14-30 & 14-50) receptacles are often used in public charging station you might accidentally stumble upon. The Tesla EV I believe uses a 14-50R/P.

the cord on the EVSE has 14AWG wire with 3 conductors inside, which is removed, and replaced with* 10AWG with 4 conductors*. This eliminates the concerns over wire size. 12AWG would have probably been OK.

On the OTHER end, the J1772 connector(the light-sabre handle looking thing) it is all rated for more than enough, Id have to reread everything a look at the exact specs, but people are doing it with the stock stuff. It gets warm, but not scalding hot.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

I looked at the vid, and 120 is indeed used for the electronics. So that would be 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. The chargers used in the UK and Europe have to different. 

With that said you need a 4 wire circuit and a 4 wire receptacle like a NEMA 14-30r. A 16 amp charger will need a 20amp circuit. Although if you upsize the cord you could use a 30amp circuit like you already have.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

OK, so I figured out which breaker was for the 240V receptacle, and it is 30A:










I flipped the breaker off, double-checked that there wasn't current, and then cut out the sheetrock to get a good grip on the box the receptacle is in, and here is a close-up of what the box/receptacle looks like:









and an even closer look of the insides:










So I need to decipher what they have done here. I'm not sure what AWG that wire is...I know it isn't too thin that's for sure, it looks pretty thick to me.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

It looks to me as though the installer of the receptacle used regular 10 gauge 30A wire, but doubled-up on the BLACK hot side, and tripled up on the ground side.

Soooo, how do I proceed?

obviously red goes to red, black goes to black.

Green goes to ground, leaving white for a neutral...so which ones do I use for ground and which for neutral though?

Maybe I can go back to the breaker box and see what the wire colors are going into the 30A breaker, to see how it is wired. Maybe I can figure out what the ground is, and what the neutral is. Isnt neutral screwed down to the post/connector that goes into the ground? Ir is the "ground" the one that goes connected to the actual dirt ground?

Such a rabbit-hole!


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Who ever did that was not an electrician, at least 5 code violation right there. Someone tapped a circuit off the dryer receptacle when it should have come out the breaker box or an existing 120 volt circuit.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> It looks to me as though the installer of the receptacle used regular 10 gauge 30A wire, but doubled-up on the BLACK hot side, and tripled up on the ground side.
> 
> Soooo, how do I proceed?
> 
> ...



Ground doesn't go to dirt, it eventually goes back to the main panel and is bonded to the service neutral. Dirt will not trip a standard thermal magnetic breaker. 

The issue is you have a violation that needs to be corrected.


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## mm11 (Apr 30, 2013)

No neutral is needed for Level 2 EVSE (208-240 V).


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Here you can see the RED & BLACK wires coming from above, and coming down to the top-left 30A breakers:










Here is the white wire coming from the same bunch above, going down to the GROUND bus bar:










Sooo what about the NEUTRAL? Do I just hook it to GROUND as well? Or do I do the whole drill into the gound and run a ground wire thing? or what?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Who ever did that was not an electrician, at least 5 code violation right there. Someone tapped a circuit off the dryer receptacle when it should have come out the breaker box or an existing 120 volt circuit.


 Yea it was plugged into my dryer.

And Yup, where I live..EVERYBODY thinks they can do crap so good they start charging for it...even though they are dumb-asses....and then you end up with people like me, slamming their head against the wall later on.

This goes for anything, car mechanics, electricians, decorators, wedding planners...evverybodyyyss an expert around here lol


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Ground doesn't go to dirt, it eventually goes back to the main panel and is bonded to the service neutral. Dirt will not trip a standard thermal magnetic breaker.
> 
> The issue is you have a violation that needs to be corrected.





mm11 said:


> No neutral is needed for Level 2 EVSE (208-240 V).



Oh OK so the ground goes to the ground bar, (duh go figure lol but I had to ask), and the red goes to the red, the black goes to the black, and the neutral is not used?

That sounds like a plan to me. Is one set of those incoming wires good enough to hook up my 14-30R to?

They look to be 10AWG?

I would have to test them both, see if they are both hot..and if they are, cap off the extra (unmapped out)set and not use them?

I wonder where the other set come from? Im going to go poke around see if I can figure out where that other set comes from.... another breaker...or whaaa?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Here you can see the RED & BLACK wires coming from above, and coming down to the top-left 30A breakers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The neutral is going to the ground/neutral bar which is shared in the main panel. You will need to follow the neutral wire or the red and black wires all the way to the top of the cable and see if a bare ground wire comes out of the cable.


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## mm11 (Apr 30, 2013)

The Volt has battery management software, but I'm guessing that GM could void the warranty on your car if they were to find out that you opened up the EVSE and changed it, which voids the listing of the EVSE and violates the NEC.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

And to be honest I cant figure out if that's your main panel or subpanel. I see 4 feeder wires coming in and the bar on top connecting the two is removed yet the neutral bar is bonded to the can...

What is next to that panel?


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## mm11 (Apr 30, 2013)

Keep the cord and plug Level 1 charger in the trunk in case you want to charge the car while you're not at home, and buy a Level 2 charger. Here's one for $379 from Clipper Creek- http://www.clippercreek.com/store/p...-20-level-2/?gclid=CK3svJmu6cQCFccdgQodix0AuQ


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

mm11 said:


> No neutral is needed for Level 2 EVSE (208-240 V).


That's what I read here:

http://insideevs.com/home-installation-level-2-evse-electric-car/

BUT on the modified factory L1 Voltec EVSE in the video, they use the white wire on another section of the board, after melting the solder and removing a jumper. Where the jumper was, they soldered on the white wire.

This provides a second leg for the 240V operation. At least that's what they say.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

mm11 said:


> Keep the cord and plug Level 1 charger in the trunk in case you want to charge the car while you're not at home, and buy a Level 2 charger. Here's one for $379 from Clipper Creek- http://www.clippercreek.com/store/p...-20-level-2/?gclid=CK3svJmu6cQCFccdgQodix0AuQ


Yea, I've seen that..its just enough to max out the draw of the volt's charger, and also able to work good enough on a 20A breaker.

Also, Id like to note that Clipper Creek makes the L1 Voltec charger I have...and is very very similar inside and out. SO like I said, doubt that I would have any warranty issues because of the charger, whether or not I decide to convert my own. Its the same board inside. The Magnusson-Moss act helps protect us from dealers refusing warranties on frivolous grounds. If the unit is the same then me, myself, am not concerned with the warranty being effected by the charger itself.

BUT right now, all I'm worried about is getting the 240V to the garage. 

Then I'll look more into what charger Ill be using. That's really what I'd like to know.

That would probably effect my warranty...a whack-ass out-of-code 10-30R. LOL

What would you recommend? Do I cap off one set of those 10AWG wires, and use the BLACK/RED/GREEN wires of the one not capped off on the BLACK/RED/GREEN wires on the 14-30R?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

This is the Clipper Creek LCS-20P, which has the NEMA 14-30P plug already incorporated:

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/charging-station-lcs-25p-nema-14-30/

If I got one, Id just pay the extra $15 and let them give me that one..THEN Id have an undeniable 3 yr warranty. Just enough to stay covered while the factory warranty is. About 3 yrs.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> And to be honest I cant figure out if that's your main panel or subpanel. I see 4 feeder wires coming in and the bar on top connecting the two is removed yet the neutral bar is bonded to the can...
> 
> What is next to that panel?


Is the main breaker box. You mean to the right of the breaker box?

To the right those wires go to the meter.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Here is an LCS-20 connected to a 10-30R receptacle, too. 

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...outlet-work-with-a-Clipper-Creek-LCS-25P-EVSE

I will have to make an adapter, so in case someone has an old-school dryer cord like my old one, I can still use it at their house, with their 10-30R if they have it instead of a 14-30R..


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

oh, and here is a link about swapping the insides of my current unit, with an OpenEVSE board, which allows switchable 120/240V use:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...ing-Open-EVSE-components/page2&highlight=evse

Says the parts are about $100, which leaves a lot left over for other projects around the house, like finishing my upstairs bathroom tub surround install. Needs a lot of sheetrock to be redone.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

SO about the wiring in my garage, can I use one set of those two sets of 3 wires coming into the garage where the old receptacle was?

Just pipe in the GREEN(ground), BLACK(hot) and RED(hot) from the breaker into the into the GREEN/BLACK/RED on the EVSE and ignore the WHITE(neutral)?


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## mm11 (Apr 30, 2013)

stone4779 said:


> So how would you wire it then?
> 
> *120V PLUG______10-30R*
> 
> ...


*
*

You bought a new car, but want to violate the NEC bc you're too cheap to spend $379?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

mm11 said:


> [/B]
> 
> You bought a new car, but want to violate the NEC bc you're too cheap to spend $379?


Dude youre missing the point, Im asking legitimate questions here. If I can add a 14-30R to my garage, mod the L1 EVSE to operate on 240 AND 120V..its *waaayy* better than paying $400 for the LCS-20P, and *ONLY* being able to charge at 240V AND 120V by carrying *BOTH* the stock L1 120V EVSE *AND* the new 240V L2 EVSE around.

That's just kindof silly, when it has been shown that the mod does in fact work fine, for lots of people.

Its not a matter of being cheap, its common sense man. Thatd be throwing away money, and convenience..and FUN. I like to do things like think for myself and ask questions, and figure out how to make/mod stuff.

Im just asking if it can be wired, that's all. Its just a question.

Those SAME companies that sell these L2 EVSEs offer to upgrade the SAME L1 to a L1/L2 120V/240V switchable device. 

They are only human man, so if THEY can do it, I can do it.

So I am asking again, *is there any way to use the birds nest in my garage to wire in a 240V receptacle, or am I going to have to start from scratch and install a new 30A breaker on the main breaker box, and run new 10/3 or 10/4 wire all the way to the garage's new 14-30R?*


----------



## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

*------>*


stone4779 said:


> SO about the wiring in my garage, can I use one set of those two sets of 3 wires coming into the garage where the old receptacle was?
> 
> Just pipe in the GREEN(ground), BLACK(hot) and RED(hot) from the breaker into the into the GREEN/BLACK/RED on the EVSE and ignore the WHITE(neutral)?


 this is what a lot of(all but one) L2 EVSE's do, and a lot of other appliances as well. two hots, one ground. No neutral.

Just wondering if this is possible


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## mm11 (Apr 30, 2013)

I think you're missing the point. Manufacturers get their products tested to insure they work correctly and do not pose a hazard. Modifying the equipment voids the listing and is specifically against the NEC. I won't give advice on this. Good luck.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

mm11 said:


> I think you're missing the point. Manufacturers get their products tested to insure they work correctly and do not pose a hazard. Modifying the equipment voids the listing and is specifically against the NEC. I won't give advice on this. Good luck.


Ah OK a get it, I guess I WAS the one missing the point, I didn't realize it was such a big deal over here.

All I need to know is if I can use what I have behind the 10-30R receptacle, or do I need to SCRAP all that, in order to run a 14-30R to my garage?

That isn't a violation of NFC? or is it?? idk im really asking

Im not talking out of code, I mean to get a 14-30 in my garage, what do I need to do. This has been what I have been asking the whole time, but I seem to keep getting off-subject on the whole L1 to L2 conversion topic. That is another topic in another forum completely, and I guess I shouldn't have even brought it up. 

EVERYTHING ELSE aside, if my friends came over and wanted to charge their 14-30P-equipped EV's, and I wanted to have that luxury, do I SCRAP whats in my garage and run it all new, or is there any merit in keeping any of that mess behind the 10-30R receptacle's WIRING I already have?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> SO about the wiring in my garage, can I use one set of those two sets of 3 wires coming into the garage where the old receptacle was?
> 
> Just pipe in the GREEN(ground), BLACK(hot) and RED(hot) from the breaker into the into the GREEN/BLACK/RED on the EVSE and ignore the WHITE(neutral)?


That will have to be fixed first. You need to find what the tapped circuit feeds.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Ah OK a get it, I guess I WAS the one missing the point, I didn't realize it was such a big deal over here.
> 
> All I need to know is if I can use what I have behind the 10-30R receptacle, or do I need to SCRAP all that, in order to run a 14-30R to my garage?
> 
> ...


Do not keep the mess behind the dryer outlet, its both a fire and shock hazard waiting to happen.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> That will have to be fixed first. You need to find what the tapped circuit feeds.


Cool, so meaning, I need to find out where that 5v Im getting at the 10-30R is coming from?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Do not keep the mess behind the dryer outlet, its both a fire and shock hazard waiting to happen.


Thanks man.

So I need to scrap all of it?

Or I can use one of 10/3's and cap off, and not use the other 10/3?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

and if I DO need to just scrap the entire thing, and run a whole new wire to the garage, what gauge wire is good for a 30A circuit?

10AWG? So I would get 10AWG/4-conductor wiring? Its going to have to run from one side of the house to another...not sure how far exactly, because I could either run it through the walls, or around the outside of the house. Id rather not run anything outside and in a pipe, that just looks ugly as heck to me. Its going to be a trick getting those wires through the house


--___________________
--[.............................. ]
--[...............................]
--[.............................. ]
--[ ..............................]
--[.............................. ]
--[.............................. ]
--[ ..............................]
--[ ................................---------------------------
Y-[ .................................................................]
--[ .................................................................]
--[ .................................................................]
--[ .................................................................] X
--[ .................................................................]
--[ .................................................................]
--[ .................................................................]
--------------------------------------------------------

Y is where the breaker is.
X is the carport

there is a living room & kitchen between it all Id have to go through, approx. 35-40 feet if done right.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> So I need to scrap all of it?
> 
> Or I can use one of 10/3's and cap off, and not use the other 10/3?


The 10/3 can stay and can be re-used as long as it has a ground in it. The other circuit will need to be re-located, it can not tap off the dryer.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> The 10/3 can stay and can be re-used as long as it has a ground in it. The other circuit will need to be re-located, it can not tap off the dryer.


OK cool, thanks.. that's what I figured. 

I wasn't sure if maybe the guy had ran TWO of those 10/3's with TWO different sets of breakers to try and make the 240V connection, or what? LOL

So Im finished with all my stuff and my buddy is taking me to Home Depot again, but with a truck to get some sheetrock and mud, etc. We will be needing to do some sheetrock repair in the rest of the house anyways, might as well grab that stuff while we are there getting the 14-30R, 14-30R, the 10/4 wire.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> OK cool, thanks.. that's what I figured.
> 
> I wasn't sure if maybe the guy had ran TWO of those 10/3's with TWO different sets of breakers to try and make the 240V connection, or what? LOL
> 
> So Im finished with all my stuff and my buddy is taking me to Home Depot again, but with a truck to get some sheetrock and mud, etc. We will be needing to do some sheetrock repair in the rest of the house anyways, might as well grab that stuff while we are there getting the 14-30R, 14-30R, the 10/4 wire.


Did you already check the wire in the wall was 10/3 with a ground (4 wires)? Will save you buying new wire.

If you are running conduit outside of your home it will have to be 10 gauge THHN/THWN wire.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> and if I DO need to just scrap the entire thing, and run a whole new wire to the garage, what gauge wire is good for a 30A circuit?
> 
> 10AWG? So I would get 10AWG/4-conductor wiring? Its going to have to run from one side of the house to another...not sure how far exactly, because I could either run it through the walls, or around the outside of the house. Id rather not run anything outside and in a pipe, that just looks ugly as heck to me. Its going to be a trick getting those wires through the house
> 
> ...


I am going to be honest, considering the complexity and the hack work already done by someone else I think at this point it would be best to get an electrician to it for you. They can easily fish wires through the wall too, which would eliminate ugly conduit wrapping around the home.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Did you already check the wire in the wall was 10/3 with a ground (4 wires)? Will save you buying new wire.
> 
> If you are running conduit outside of your home it will have to be 10 gauge THHN/THWN wire.


Unfortunately, no it turned out it was a *10/3 wired to the 10-30R*, with _another_ 10/3 piggy-backing off the 10-30R. I still do not know what this "extra" 10/3 goes to, so I got some twist lock caps to block it off after verifying there is NO current at all coming FROM it. (and obviously going TO it, since I disconntected it from the 10-30R). Im assuming something, somewhere, was piggy-backing off the 10-30R. 

AND, if you look in the pics of the mess, you can see there is ANOTHER (red) wire coming off the *ground* of the 10-30R! Someone added a 120V 5-15R right next to the 10-30R, and ran that extra wire from the 10-30R, to the extra 5-15R close by. This 5-15R DOES have it's OWN 10/3 going to it, though.

I spent the last hour cutting out the sheetrock around the 10-30R in my garage, cleaning behind the sheetrock(it was DIRTY), and testing the wires to see what is what. What a P.I.T.A.

If stuff was done right, Id just be adding a NEUTRAL wire from the garage to the main breaker, right?

Im not sure I should proceed like this. Maybe I should leave that extra 10/3 capped off and unused(whatever it goes to), replace the 10-30R that already there with a new one, this one is very old-looking(that's within code since it was already there, isn't it?) and just use that for the dryer, as before..

and for the car, Im thinking I should just dive in, and run a NEW dedicated 240V 10/4 all the way from the main breaker, to the garage. Id have to cut out the sheetrock in the ceiling in the living room and the kitchen, run the new 10/4 across the ceiling, and then re-install the sheetrock, tape & float, and try and make it look like it never happened.

We are actually doing a lot of sheetrock replacement this week, anyways, so the added cost wouldn't be TOO bad, and it is time to repaint the interior, anyways.

This way, I can have my 14-30R RIGHT by the charge port on my Chevy Volt, with it's own dedicated breaker, FOR SURE. And be DONE with it for now.

I don't see any other FOR SURE options, since the wiring it so mix-n-matched..I don't want to mess anything up. The only other thing I could think of, is to run a NEW ground all the way from the breaker, to where the old 10-30R was, and hook the WHITE/RED/BLACK up from the 10/3, and just add a 10 AWG GREEN.

Does that sound right?

But I figure, if Im going to cut the ceiling open and run a wire, I MAY AS WELL just go ahead and run a 10/4 instead of just a new ground.(or is it neutral?)


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> I am going to be honest, considering the complexity and the hack work already done by someone else I think at this point it would be best to get an electrician to it for you. They can easily fish wires through the wall too, which would eliminate ugly conduit wrapping around the home.


Yes, you're right about that...Im definitely not going to have 90 feet of conduit running around the edge of my roof or anywhere outside for that matter. Cuz that's about what itd take to run it around the edge of the house. That would be super ugly, and Im cleaning up all the wiring outside the house so nothing shows anyways.

Im comfortable with doing this myself. I see it involves cutting a strip of sheetrock from the ceiling, running the wires through, installing a dedicated 240V 14-30R, and re-installing the sheetrock and cleaning it up to look like it never happened. Im doing a lOT of sheetrock this week in my house ANYWAYS, so now is a good time to just DO IT and get it over with, since we are already there doing sheetrock.

Im telling you, you *DONT* want to hire anyone down here by the border to do it FOR you..."professional" or not, they will either 1. crook(price gouge) you, 2. never even do it, 3. burn your house down, or a combination of the three.

People down his are the _sorriest _bunch I've ever had to deal with. It is *very* unlikely Ill be hiring someone to do this for me. I just wont do it if I feel its within my scope of knowledge/skill. Knowledge is easy, just read and follow instructions.

Here, there is a 99% chance Ill get a lousy electrician, that claims to be good, or someone who will price gouge me into not even hiring someone to do the project at all. I just know how it goes down here. Better to just not go down that road, if I don't have to. Complete waste of time here. Seriously.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

OK, so I figured Id post up what I figured out:

here is the wires behind the sheetrock there by the 10-30R:










As you can see, there WAS an extra 10/3 that was piggy-backed onto the 10-30R receptacle, wired as shown with TWO wires(red & white) wired into the ground(probably neutral and ground), and the 3rd 10/3 wire (black) ran to the black HOT on the 10-30R.

I capped that off, and it is no longer in use. Now the dryer plug can just be replaced, and Ill just use the dryer on that only, like before. I still do not know what the heck that extra 10/3 that was piggy-backed on went to.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

AND to top it OFF, the 5-15R nearby is stealing either neutral or ground from the 10-30R:










On the left pic, I circle the end that was connected to the ground of the 10-30R.

If you follow this wire, it goes to the nearby 5-15R 120V outlet. Since I remove the ground, this outlet is no longer good, so I wil probably either remove it, or investigate further LATER. Right now I could care less about that 120V outlet...I don't need it right now really.

Just thought Id note the extra retarded-ness Im discovering.

Definitely gong to just run a NEW 14-30R. This rabbit hole keeps getting deeper over in the garage LOL.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Ditch the outlet. Focus on getting a NEMA 14-30r.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> OK, so I figured Id post up what I figured out:
> 
> here is the wires behind the sheetrock there by the 10-30R:
> 
> ...



Hopefully nothing major. In any case tapping into the dryer circuit is a big no-no.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Ditch the outlet. Focus on getting a NEMA 14-30r.


Yup, that's exactly what Im gong to do! Doing some sheetrock upstairs tonight, but soon as I figure out the most inexpensive/safest/easiest way to do it, I will.

Currently, before I pull the trigger, I want to price out the stuff and see where I can get the 10/4 cheapest.

Last night, I picked up the 30A double pole breaker, 14-30R, the blue box to house the receptacle, and a steel plate to cover it. I just need to get about 50-60 ft of the 10/4, and open up the ceiling and see where/how the wire can be routed.

The breaker box does have a slot for a double pole up top, and there is at least one other slot not in use.

thanks for reading this mess! What a headache!


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Yup, that's exactly what Im gong to do! Doing some sheetrock upstairs tonight, but soon as I figure out the most inexpensive/safest/easiest way to do it, I will.
> 
> Currently, before I pull the trigger, I want to price out the stuff and see where I can get the 10/4 cheapest.
> 
> ...


 Welcome  Id rather you do it right and be safe than continue to live with dangerous screw ups. 

Your panel will handle THQP breakers, which are half size single and double pole versions giving you more space. However, if your NEMA 10-30 will be handling a car charger, a THQL full size will be better. Both breakers will be to code in any case. 


Home Depot generally has the cheapest wire, but it may be different in your area. 

The correct wire is NM-B (Romex) 10/3 with ground, which means 4 conductors: 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. The ground isn't counted in "10/3" but in the "with ground part". One of those strange ways to refer to wire.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

This wire is the wire to us:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569?N=5yc1vZc57aZ1z10nga

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...e-63948455/202316277?N=5yc1vZc57aZ4mmZ1z10nga

http://www.make-my-own-house.com/images/cddryer.jpg


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Welcome  Id rather you do it right and be safe than continue to live with dangerous screw ups.
> 
> Your panel will handle THQP breakers, which are half size single and double pole versions giving you more space. However, if your NEMA 10-30 will be handling a car charger, a THQL full size will be better. Both breakers will be to code in any case.
> 
> ...


 Thanks man, I appreciate that. 

good to know about the breakers, I had heard of that.

I clicked on this link: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowir...5001rw&cm_mmc=CJ-_-6158626-_-11210757&cj=true

and it shows only 3 wires in the diagram? where is the ground?


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

I see in the specs it says "3 conductors with ground", but im not seeing 4 wires in the pic though?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Thanks man, I appreciate that.
> 
> good to know about the breakers, I had heard of that.
> 
> ...





stone4779 said:


> I see in the specs it says "3 conductors with ground", but im not seeing 4 wires in the pic though?




The pic is technically incorrect, its showing 10-2 with ground. 

This is what the pics should be:

10-2:

http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/10-2-W-G-NM-B-Wire-Orange.html

10-3:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_70030-226-147-1803B_0__

http://www.lowes.com/pd_83832-295-63948415_4294546227__?productId=4294377&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1%26page%3D2&facetInfo=


http://waterheatertimer.org/images/10-3-NM-B-wire.jpg


The wire you need is 10-3 with ground which is Black, Red, White and bare copper.


BTW, have you ever considered buying a 50 amp charger down the road? I only ask because if you can a 50amp outlet now is the time to upsize. If not your good to go with 10-3.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> The pic is technically incorrect, its showing 10-2 with ground.
> 
> This is what the pics should be:
> 
> ...


Ohhhhh, OK. No wonder I was all confused lol. I get it now. I checked it out at Home Depot and I saw them all in person. I did some research and the consensus is that I should probably at bare minimum go with the 8/3, but I would feel better, and would save time in the future if I DO get a car capable of utilizing up to 40 amps by just getting the 6/3 NMD right right now and just be done with it. The only way I would outgrow 6/3 at 50ft would be if I wanted a DC Fast Charger and those are about 60 amps, and very, very expensive right now. They run on up to 500v I think, so thatd be a whole 'nother ball of wax haha.

Anyways, Im waiting until we finish the bathroom to move forward with all that, we were going to be pulling back the sheetrock anyways so it wont be TOO much extra work. 

So do I need to run it inside conduit? or just inbehind the sheetrock like the rest of the existing wiring?

Im pretty sure I need to have it inside some sort of conduit on the exterior portion where it comes out the wall & connects to the main breaker.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

I was looking at stuff at Home Depot and saw those plastic receptacle housings that can be waterproofed, and the clear covers for exterior-mounted receptacles...and the semi-flexible conduit. 

Like this, but a 240 outlet(shows a regular 120V install):

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20825310,00.html

With the exception of course that I would have a bigger 14-30R receptacle in the box...hopefully it fits the larger 240 receptacle, or they have ones that do, I need to check on my next trip to Home Depot.

I would like to mount mine in a similar fashion. It looks like a clean install.

Still trying to figure which route to take the wire through the living room and kitchen, without having to drill holes in the 2x4s to pass the wire through..Its a 2 story, and Im concerned with losing support for the 2nd floor.

Is something like this suitable for a 240V line to the carport? It isn't a fully-closed garage, so it is technically open to the outside so its a carport not a garage. That's why I ask.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

I think this is what I saw a Home Depot:

flexible conduit:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cabl...ght-Conduit-6003-22-00/100027081?N=5yc1vZbohl

and I believe something like this to waterproof the connection at the breaker, and the receptacle housing?:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-100027081-_-204755884-_-N

heres a couple of the boxes I saw at home depot and I believe the same one in the video:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hubbell-...se-Cover-MM420C/100173013#product_description

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Taymac-1...roof-While-in-Use-Cover-Kit-MKG410C/202284520

It would allow it to remain waterproof while in use...even though its in the carport where no rain could get, but you never know, maybe a water leak could drip on it. With that theres no way.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Ohhhhh, OK. No wonder I was all confused lol. I get it now. I checked it out at Home Depot and I saw them all in person. I did some research and the consensus is that I should probably at bare minimum go with the 8/3, but I would feel better, and would save time in the future if I DO get a car capable of utilizing up to 40 amps by just getting the 6/3 NMD right right now and just be done with it. The only way I would outgrow 6/3 at 50ft would be if I wanted a DC Fast Charger and those are about 60 amps, and very, very expensive right now. They run on up to 500v I think, so thatd be a whole 'nother ball of wax haha.


 It can be confusing. If you were buying flexible cord it would be 10/4 because ground is included in that number, however romex is 10/3 with ground. Trust me, it can get confusing 

6/3 is good for 55amps, so in theory if you ever get a hard wired charger you could put in a 60amp breaker (code lets you go one size up in this case) and charge at 50amps no worries.

8/3 is good for a 40amp circuit and 10/3 as you know 30amps. 

It depends on what you will end up using. My advise, if your a serious electric car fanatic or drive a lot go with 6/3 because that will cover all possible future scenarios. 




> Anyways, Im waiting until we finish the bathroom to move forward with all that, we were going to be pulling back the sheetrock anyways so it wont be TOO much extra work.
> 
> So do I need to run it inside conduit? or just inbehind the sheetrock like the rest of the existing wiring?


 No conduit. Romex is a cable assembly, so as long as its in a dry place within a wall its basically conduit. 



> Im pretty sure I need to have it inside some sort of conduit on the exterior portion where it comes out the wall & connects to the main breaker.


 You do and it can not be romex, it must be THHN. The reason being is that conduit is considered a wet location. Romex is not designed to be continually submerged in water. The ground wire is bare, plus paper filler is placed in romex, both not a good combo with water.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> I think this is what I saw a Home Depot:
> 
> flexible conduit:
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cabl...ght-Conduit-6003-22-00/100027081?N=5yc1vZbohl
> ...


 
Yes, install a weather proof box if this is outside, even in a car port. All wiring on the outside must be weather proof. So plastic conduit/ liquid tight flex is ok.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> I was looking at stuff at Home Depot and saw those plastic receptacle housings that can be waterproofed, and the clear covers for exterior-mounted receptacles...and the semi-flexible conduit.
> 
> Like this, but a 240 outlet(shows a regular 120V install):
> 
> ...


 
Suitable for a carport. Make everything weather proof as though its directly outdoors.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> It can be confusing. If you were buying flexible cord it would be 10/4 because ground is included in that number, however romex is 10/3 with ground. Trust me, it can get confusing
> 
> 6/3 is good for 55amps, so in theory if you ever get a hard wired charger you could put in a 60amp breaker (code lets you go one size up in this case) and charge at 50amps no worries.
> 
> ...


Yes it can be confusing. lol..

IDK, ill probably run the 6/3 and be done with it. Seems a small price difference for being done, and its a good selling point, especially in the future once EVs become a lot more popular.

OK So that all makes sense... so for the part where I run the THHN outside to the receptacle through the wall,(from the interior to the exterior of the house)...how do I connect the THHN & he 6/3? If it was just 120V I would think installing a receptacle box and connecting them with twist-caps would be good enough, but this is 240 so IDK. Opinion on that? Is there connectors I can buy that use a more secure method? Like in car audio installations, there are connectors that use screws to hodl the wires in, much like in the breaker box on the breakers to secure the wires.

I cannot thank you enough for your input. I understand you guys already did the work, and learned the hard way..I appreciate you going out of your way to help me avoid some of the pitfalls & save some cash too! Very fun learning process. I hink I might have a little hobby now haha.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Yes, install a weather proof box if this is outside, even in a car port. All wiring on the outside must be weather proof. So plastic conduit/ liquid tight flex is ok.


Awesome. Gotcha.


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Yes it can be confusing. lol..
> 
> IDK, ill probably run the 6/3 and be done with it. Seems a small price difference for being done, and its a good selling point, especially in the future once EVs become a lot more popular.
> 
> ...


Welcome  And thank you for taking the time to do it right. 

Well there are two way to do it, One is a j box where 6/3 goes to THHN, the other is to run THHN/THWN all the way from the panel to the outlet. As long as the THHN/THWN is in a conduit from the panel to the outlet its to code.

You will need 3 6 gauge copper wires for the hot and neutral plus 1 green 10 gauge for the ground wire making 4 in total. Yes code lets the ground wire be smaller in high amperage circuits. 


2 Hots: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...493399/204632784?N=5yc1vZbm7vZ1z0ukz9Z1z10myq

1 Neutral: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...494199/204632877?N=5yc1vZbm7vZ1z0ukz9Z1z10myq

1 ground: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...977399/204631947?N=5yc1vZbm7vZ1z0ukz9Z1z10nga


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> Welcome  And thank you for taking the time to do it right.
> 
> Well there are two way to do it, One is a j box where 6/3 goes to THHN, the other is to run THHN/THWN all the way from the panel to the outlet. As long as the THHN/THWN is in a conduit from the panel to the outlet its to code.
> 
> ...


Would a few feet of this wire be OK to run from the J box on the inside of the wall, to the outside of the wall, connected to the plastic waterproof receptacle box with the 14-30R inside?

That way I can just use the 6/3 from the panel to the J box?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-6-3-UF-B-W-G-By-the-Foot-14782799/204632163?N=5yc1vZc57b


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Still working on my upstairs restroom..but in the meantime, I m trying to figure out how to get the wires from the main breaker outside, inside the wall in the living room, past the living room AND kitchen, and through the wall on the other side.

Is two stories so I cant just "climb in the attic"

Im thinking Im going to have to cut a long strip of sheetrock from the ceiling, through the living/kitchen area. I cant really see any other way to do it.

Heres my layout:


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Would a few feet of this wire be OK to run from the J box on the inside of the wall, to the outside of the wall, connected to the plastic waterproof receptacle box with the 14-30R inside?
> 
> That way I can just use the 6/3 from the panel to the J box?
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-6-3-UF-B-W-G-By-the-Foot-14782799/204632163?N=5yc1vZc57b


Yes, that is actual better. :thumbsup: UF cable is listed for wet locations (water proof) and can even be buried directly under code. In fact you could run UF the entire length from the breaker box to the outlet box as long as the exterior portion is in conduit. IMO that is best option since you avoid splicing and transitioning between different cable types making it fool proof.

When ordering, make sure you mention specifically "6/3 *with ground*"


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

stone4779 said:


> Still working on my upstairs restroom..but in the meantime, I m trying to figure out how to get the wires from the main breaker outside, inside the wall in the living room, past the living room AND kitchen, and through the wall on the other side.
> 
> Is two stories so I cant just "climb in the attic"
> 
> ...


 

This is the hardest part. :furious::laughing: I don't know how you home is constructed, at and chances are you are figuring that out, so it might take trail and error. If you are lucky the joists will be wood trusses http://www.engineeredtrusssystems.com/_client_media/item_photos/gall_379_img_50.jpg which will be a breeze, however solid joists will be a challenge. My advice, look and see how other circuits are run. If for example the dryer circuit heading over to that direction is already drilled through
the joists with the hole large enough you could use that to fish the wire through. Another option is up and over into the attic.


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## mobiledynamics (Jul 29, 2010)

OT, but did you guys see the linked video.
Is Romex in Conduit allowed in your area ...


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

mobiledynamics said:


> OT, but did you guys see the linked video.
> Is Romex in Conduit allowed in your area ...


I am going to be honest, that is technically in correct. It might work out with the seal tight, but 300.9 says not to.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

Jump-start said:


> This is the hardest part. :furious::laughing: I don't know how you home is constructed, at and chances are you are figuring that out, so it might take trail and error. If you are lucky the joists will be wood trusses http://www.engineeredtrusssystems.com/_client_media/item_photos/gall_379_img_50.jpg which will be a breeze, however solid joists will be a challenge. My advice, look and see how other circuits are run. If for example the dryer circuit heading over to that direction is already drilled through
> the joists with the hole large enough you could use that to fish the wire through. Another option is up and over into the attic.


You said that right! I guess I just need to peel back the sheetrock in the laundry where the old dryer plug is, and see how that gets there, maybe I can fish it throgh the same hole like you said, I hadnt though of that.

I PRAY the living room is trusses, it seems to be 2-3 feet of empty space between the first and second floor, so theres a good chance its trusses and not solid all the way through. Thatd be a STRAIGHT shot across the house. I need to repaint the whole house ANYWAYS, so that option doesnt really bother me, so long as its trusses lol.

My friend had suggested up and through the attic, seems like it would be close to 100 feet that way though. Thats a pretty long run.


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## stone4779 (Apr 9, 2015)

mobiledynamics said:


> OT, but did you guys see the linked video.
> Is Romex in Conduit allowed in your area ...


Im not sure...where I live I would be surprised if I even needed a permit. small border town in south TX. Im wondering how I find out?


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## Jump-start (Sep 26, 2012)

Attic would be long and expensive but you never know based on the rest. I would first follow that dryer circuit.


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