# Another reason I'm glad I don't live in CA...



## PPBART (Nov 11, 2011)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...in-your-own-garage/ar-AADOizD?ocid=spartandhp


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## Clutchcargo (Mar 31, 2007)

This can't be true, can it? I don't think I know a single person without a socket set. My wife even owned a socket set before I met her.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

This is probably an accurate story, though it is extreme. Here in Louisville, a home owner can work on their car, or a car registered to someone who lives at the property, if the work is done 'indoors."

I have never seen this "indoors' provison enforced. Hell, I put new ball joints and an upper control arm on my Navigator, parked on the street in front of my house, and never had anyone say a word to me. 

This is a local zoning provision, and doesn't extend to the whole state of California. Just as Louisville's ordinance doesn't apply to the whole state of Kentucky.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh, I thought you were going to say trying to out run a wildfire during an eartquake & hoping there wasn't a tsunami after. :wink2:


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

Wow. I get that they might be trying to prevent residential-based businesses - either on or off the book - but this seems like serious overreach. It seems there would be other ways to control this.
There is likely a backstory and, rather than deal with probably one incident, they broad-brushed it (or a neighbour of a councillor upset his sensibilities by working on his classic car). A friend lives in housing on a military base and right in the tenancy agreement there is a specific prohibition against operating a forge. Ya just gotta know somewhere in the past . . .


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I’m not sure what is going on in Sacramento. Are they driving around and issuing tickets on sight, or did somebody complain ?

Many cities have similar laws. Most do not enforce them without a complaint. The real intent is to stop the guy with the hunk of junk in his front yard that he claims he is working on. Or that guy that is doing messy work (oil/grease spills) in a space on the street.

Yes, if you are already at war with a neighbor, they may report you. But most neighbors don’t if you try your best to limit the noise/mess and get the job done in a reasonable time frame.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

lenaitch said:


> ... a neighbour of a councillor upset his sensibilities by working on his classic car.


 
More likely too many complaints about beat up cars at their neighbor's, either in pieces on the driveway, or parked on the street waiting to be repaired. But the cops can't do anything because no law is being broken. Unlikely to be enforced unless the guy is ticking off his neighbors.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

Where do you draw the line with lifts, compressors, sandblast cabinets, engine stands and stuff? First cars, then opens the door to come after the wood hobbyists with their lathes and planers. Don't forget the lady crafters with their Cricut cutting machines and modern sewing machines. Also home offices with the same printers and computers that are in professional businesses. Don't forget about the cooks with professionally-capable appliances, or fisherman with food-grade steel tables.

Yah, a little overboard in my logic, but what will come of little Johnny just trying to fix his bike chain in his driveway.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

SPS-1 said:


> More likely too many complaints about beat up cars at their neighbor's, either in pieces on the driveway, or parked on the street waiting to be repaired. But the cops can't do anything because no law is being broken. Unlikely to be enforced unless the guy is ticking off his neighbors.



Where I am, such things are governed by property standards by-laws. I can't recall the exact wording (and can't be bothered to look it up) but do know it prohibit derelict/inoperative vehicles, boats, etc. as well as other debris. It's a land use by-law so up to the by-law department to enforce and, admittedly, subjective - it would up to a judge to decide I don't think it or any other rule prohibits specific activities on residential properties unless it's a business. We have a neighbour with a lift - who cares. Some urban municipalities, where small lots are common, have by-laws against parking things like RVs, truck tractors, boats over a certain length, etc. in the driveway.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

3onthetree said:


> Where do you draw the line with lifts, compressors, sandblast cabinets, engine stands and stuff? First cars, then opens the door to come after the wood hobbyists with their lathes and planers. Don't forget the lady crafters with their Cricut cutting machines and modern sewing machines. Also home offices with the same printers and computers that are in professional businesses. Don't forget about the cooks with professionally-capable appliances, or fisherman with food-grade steel tables.
> 
> Yah, a little overboard in my logic, but what will come of little Johnny just trying to fix his bike chain in his driveway.


Here in Louisville, you can have your garage equiped with everything in a professional garage. You can't do painting or body work, but if it is your car, or is a car registered at the property's address, you can legally work on it. Is this strictly enforced? No. 

If someone complains, it is almost always because someone is running a business out of their home.

I work on my car all the time, out on the street. I am done that day. None of my neighbors care.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

These laws are nothing new whatsoever. Many cities have them, and they're a regular feature of home owner associations (HOAs) because fussy people don't like what they perceive as the mess that auto repairs can make.

Which I concur with because I've done my own repairs, and I'm glad I don't have to anymore. But I don't care if my neighbors work on their cars.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I actually like the HOA rules about not working on cars outside. We have limited overflow/guest parking and that is tied up already with people leaving extra cars parked there for months at a time. Don't need people leaving them out there on jack stands. That said, minor stuff is fine and not strictly enforced. I helped a neighbor kid (by lending tools) try to replace an O2 sensor on his Honda in the parking lot since their townhouse doesn't have a garage. Turns out it was rusted in and he stripped it so it had to go to the garage across the street to get heli-coiled. I'd have offered to help with that, too, in my garage but the overflow parking was already full of squatters so no place for me to leave my vehicles. I need to move somewhere less congested.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

The trend is for populated, congested areas to be come more of both, and with less room for cars. Also, if, as has already happened in some places, cars get to be "optional," expect more, not fewer restrictions on use of the place adjoining a home for auto repair and maintenance.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

HOAs are enforced through private legal action. Stupid stuff like "no clothes lines" or "no shutters on windows" are common. Condos are the worst. Friend of mine was "fined" for washing her car in her own parking space. She moved to a house in a subdivision with no HOAs shortly after that. 

I live in an older neighborhood, so there are HOA restrictions. That is the way I like it. People here use common sense. You don't drain your radiator in the gutter, you put a tarp under your car if you are fixing an oil leak, you clean up after you're done. I will be replacing an alternator this weekend, right out front. I live 2 blocks from a police station, and police cars go down my street all day. They don't care, even when I park on the street facing the wrong way. I am not doing a ball joint replacement on the side that is in traffic.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Indeed. The problem here in MD burbs of DC is the county kowtows to the developers and allows them to build more living units than the parking will support. And this is out in the 'burbs not a congested urban area. People are gonna have a lot of cars, especially as kids grow into driving age.

We have large 3 and 4 BR townhomes but only 2 spaces per (mine are my garage and driveway, while homes w/o garages get 2 in the lot). There are about a dozen extra overflow/guest spots but they are always taken up by residents' extra cars including many who use their garages as storage lockers and not car parks. Some other neighborhoods here are even worse, with people coming to fisticuffs over parking spaces.

It can get really frustrating. But the bottom line is it is the county's fault for approving these arrangements. They want to maximize tax revenue.




DoomsDave said:


> The trend is for populated, congested areas to be come more of both, and with less room for cars. Also, if, as has already happened in some places, cars get to be "optional," expect more, not fewer restrictions on use of the place adjoining a home for auto repair and maintenance.


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## AndyGump (Sep 26, 2010)

Yeah, I'm glad I don't live there either..

...Oh, wait...



...CRAP!





Andy.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

raylo32 said:


> Indeed. The problem here in MD burbs of DC is the county kowtows to the developers and allows them to build more living units than the parking will support. And this is out in the 'burbs not a congested urban area. People are gonna have a lot of cars, especially as kids grow into driving age.
> 
> We have large 3 and 4 BR townhomes but only 2 spaces per (mine are my garage and driveway, while homes w/o garages get 2 in the lot). There are about a dozen extra overflow/guest spots but they are always taken up by residents' extra cars including many who use their garages as storage lockers and not car parks. Some other neighborhoods here are even worse, with people coming to fisticuffs over parking spaces.
> 
> It can get really frustrating. But the bottom line is it is the county's fault for approving these arrangements. They want to maximize tax revenue.


That pattern about all the kids getting cars could well change, in part fueled by the conditions you describe. 

In the suburb where I live, three and four story condos have become the new norm for residential development, and most of them have little parking. 

I remember living for a while in an "old neighborhood" which was built before cars became widespread among the working class, or at least second cars. Same problem as you describe in your newer areas. I remember a guy who was thrilled to have a driveway to park his car in, because the old 'hood had required him to sometimes park his ride literally blocks away, because of a shortage of parking.

If that happens, the "car culture" as I knew growing up will be drastically reduced too.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

But it's not just the "car culture". The whole suburb model collapses without cars. No other way to get anywhere. Sure, once an area is sufficiently urbanized one can "walk to restaurants and grocery shopping" as they say. But that isn't here. You live here you be driving.



DoomsDave said:


> T
> 
> If that happens, the "car culture" as I knew growing up will be drastically reduced too.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

raylo32 said:


> But it's not just the "car culture". The whole suburb model collapses without cars. No other way to get anywhere. Sure, once an area is sufficiently urbanized one can "walk to restaurants and grocery shopping" as they say. But that isn't here. You live here you be driving.


All you say is true, but suburbs are getting re-thought, at least out here, slowly but surely. 

Sooner or later the hydrocarbons will be gone, and electric cars will help. But I suspect that as it gets more and more crowded many will opt out, and it will be politically palatable to support true public transportation. 

One big thing that makes living in the city a pain is having no place for your car. Get rid of the car, or at least use rental cars as needed, and that's a big change. The car companies, to their credit, are thinking about that already.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I live in an area that has HOA across the street but my house is not in the HOA area. They try to intimidate me as I started my self employed auto shop in my carport. Was there 3 years until I got my shop now, here 6 years. At one time, I had 15 car/trucks in my yard. I would try to hide them in the back yard so it wouldn't be an eye sore. They called the police and they came by to "inspect" the vehicles to make sure they weren't stolen. I have a few there with no license plate but those car were from used car lots. So when they seen I was legit, had license to operate, fed, state and local tax id, they were good. Then they informed me that is was the HOA across the street that turned me in. So after that I parked all the cars as forward in my front yard as far as I could just to piss them off. Then they came by and told me to cut my grass. I didn't mow for a month. Won't do that again as it was fun mowing 2 feet high grass. Then they came by to complain about something else so I walked out my door and informed them if they bothered me again, I'll take a bat to their cars that's in my driveway. Haven't seen them in 8 years.:vs_cool:


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yup, but that will be beyond our life cycles. And it isn't clear how it all works out consolidating millions and millions from the burbs into some sort of Matrix or Blade Runner setup.




DoomsDave said:


> All you say is true, but suburbs are getting re-thought, at least out here, slowly but surely.
> 
> Sooner or later the hydrocarbons will be gone, and electric cars will help. But I suspect that as it gets more and more crowded many will opt out, and it will be politically palatable to support true public transportation.
> 
> One big thing that makes living in the city a pain is having no place for your car. Get rid of the car, or at least use rental cars as needed, and that's a big change. The car companies, to their credit, are thinking about that already.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, but you guys have the great weather... in between the earthquakes, wild fires and mudslides, that is!



AndyGump said:


> Yeah, I'm glad I don't live there either..
> 
> ...Oh, wait...
> 
> ...


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Regulation of home auto repair is more rural v. urban than a Cali thing. Most of rural Kentucky is pretty wide open as far as running an auto repair business is concerned. I bet Cali is the same.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Bigplanz said:


> Regulation of home auto repair is more rural v. urban than a Cali thing. Most of rural Kentucky is pretty wide open as far as running an auto repair business is concerned. I bet Cali is the same.


What sets California apart is the relatively high percentage of urban and suburban residents vs. rural and small town residents. Trust me, we have some wild and wooly rural areas out here, but their relative population, and therefore influence in the legislature, is much reduced. 

Texas, for example, which is similar in many ways, has a much larger percentage of rural and small town residents who seem to take a different view of everything, much of the time. Likewise for Ohio.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

We have a booming economy, supposedly, but you guys have the DC "Halo" which can't hurt. The only natural disaster you get that we don't is the odd stray hurricane or two. Oh, and a few bad rainstorms.



raylo32 said:


> Yes, but you guys have the great weather... in between the earthquakes, wild fires and mudslides, that is!


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

No offense to Texans but Texas is a mess being TOO deregulated even in the urban areas. Take a look at Houston where Brain's shop wouldn't get anyone to bat an eye right in the middle of a residential neighborhood... right next to a mortuary... right in a flood drainage zone. It is bizarre there. Some level of zoning/regulation really is necessary.



DoomsDave said:


> Texas, for example, which is similar in many ways, has a much larger percentage of rural and small town residents who seem to take a different view of everything, much of the time. Likewise for Ohio.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

You're likely correct, for the moment. 

But motivated change can be mighty swift sometimes. Look at South Korea and China.



raylo32 said:


> Yup, but that will be beyond our life cycles. And it isn't clear how it all works out consolidating millions and millions from the burbs into some sort of Matrix or Blade Runner setup.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Yes, but you guys have the great weather... in between the earthquakes, wild fires and mudslides, that is!


Yeah, we have fires, earthquakes, etc. But if all you hear is California, and you don’t know where things are, you don’t really have an idea of the impact or risk.
Your state is a heck of a lot smaller.

Let’s look at the Ridgecrest earthquakes. Ridgecrest is 428 road miles from me. I just looked up DC to NYC, 227 miles. Just a hair over 1/2 the distance.

Personally, I don’t consider the weather in Ridgecrest to be that great. It’s high desert. 
Only 2 temperatures, too hot and too cold.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Then there is San Diego that has only one temperature: just right... all the time!



Oso954 said:


> Personally, I don’t consider the weather in Ridgecrest to be that great. It’s high desert.
> Only 2 temperatures, too hot and too cold.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

Houston is unique; as far as I know, it's never had a zoning ordinance. But don't think it's totally unregulated, they use, or try to use, restrictive covenants. Sometimes it works, other times, not so much. According to people I've been online with who live there.



raylo32 said:


> No offense to Texans but Texas is a mess being TOO deregulated even in the urban areas. Take a look at Houston where Brain's shop wouldn't get anyone to bat an eye right in the middle of a residential neighborhood... right next to a mortuary... right in a flood drainage zone. It is bizarre there. Some level of zoning/regulation really is necessary.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Then there is San Diego that has only one temperature: just right... all the time!


If you are talking the city, yes. The county, it depends where. About 2 years ago they hit 124F out in Ocotillo Wells.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes, Cali is bigger than many countries and has many micro-climates. That is so different from the east coast where regionally it is all relatively the same... and always bad. Either too hot, too cold, too humid, too rainy. If we have 10 days a year of San Diego weather I am overjoyed.



Oso954 said:


> If you are talking the city, yes. The county, it depends where. About 2 years ago they hit 124F out in Ocotillo Wells.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

We picked up a classic 1979 chevy stepside from the original owner (3 on the tree.) We bought a classic boat.

These codes basically make those vehicles illegal to have as a "national pasttime" to rebuild them, those 'pursuit's of happiness' are made illegal. Just so you elitist snobs can raise your noses in the air and brag about how snooty your neighborhoods are. What a pathetic existence to base "freedom" on your egos. 

I'm legit offended by folks who put their rights over those of others.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Nothing elitist about any of this. The neighborhoods here are not elite in any way. 
It's simply too tightly developed and there is very little free space so the rules exist to promote friendly coexistence. Most of my neighbors are just normal white collar folks who commute to jobs and no one that I know even knows how to work on a car. That's the nature of this area.

Folks that have hobby cars and boats like yours live 10 miles up the road where things are more rural where there are barns, big garages, and parking space. And the state has a pretty good historic vehicle policy that relaxes emissions req's for lightly driven old vehicles. Until I sold it a couple years ago I had a 1994 Camaro that I registered as historic when it was 20 years old and still worked and drove like new. Saved me the biannual trip to the emissions check.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

This ordinance isn't a neighborhood ordinance, it's not even a city ordinance, this is a COUNTY ordinance. 

My "county" (we call them "borough's") is 5,079 sq KM, 116,221 sq miles, with another 1,705 sq miles of water (lakes and ocean) 

It's bull****, elitist urban snob bull****.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

raylo32 said:


> Yes, Cali is bigger than many countries and has many micro-climates. That is so different from the east coast where regionally it is all relatively the same... and always bad. Either too hot, too cold, too humid, too rainy. If we have 10 days a year of San Diego weather I am overjoyed.



From what I heard, that's due to the deep, deep troughs offshore from San Diego. The sea breeze is cooled by them.


https://www.wired.com/2007/08/high-resolution-sea-floor-image-offshore-san-diego/


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## Calson (Jan 23, 2019)

I have a neighbor who is two houses from mine and started operating an auto and truck repair business. So I have strangers coming into the neighborhood and on his property there are on average 15 cars in the driveway, on the lawn, and on the street. I cannot enjoy my own property with the noise from air wrenches and grinders and hammering. 

So I would welcome the Sacramento regulations in my county. He is greatly damaging the enjoyment and resale value of houses for their owners in the neighborhood. He has engine hoists and transmission jacks and all the equipment found in a combination auto body and auto repair shop. Anyone on this forum who would choose to buy a house next door to an auto repair shop? 

I realize it is popular to bash California but I have traveled around most of the states including Alaska and Hawaii and I could live anywhere but choose to live in California as it is the least uncivilized area and has the best educated people I have experienced in the country. I figure the best and the brightest left Europe and traveled west to the colonies and over the past 400 years that migration has continued over the generations. My own ancestors traveled to Massachusetts in 1642 and the enterprising people continued to move west to have more options for their lives. Not sure how that is so terrible or scary for others.
For my part during the heat wave that has affected two-thirds of the United States, the weather in my area has been highs in the low 70's and lows in the 50's and moderate humidity. No need for an air conditioner for the house or even ceiling fans and my winter heating bill is less than $120 a month.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Exactly, like second hand smoke lots of human activities can impact others. Unfortunately the way things are going people just want to do what they want to do with zero consideration of others. That's why regulations are necessary... unfortunately. This is only going to get worse as the world gets more crowded.





Calson said:


> I have a neighbor who is two houses from mine and started operating an auto and truck repair business. So I have strangers coming into the neighborhood and on his property there are on average 15 cars in the driveway, on the lawn, and on the street. I cannot enjoy my own property with the noise from air wrenches and grinders and hammering.
> 
> So I would welcome the Sacramento regulations in my county. He is greatly damaging the enjoyment and resale value of houses for their owners in the neighborhood. He has engine hoists and transmission jacks and all the equipment found in a combination auto body and auto repair shop. Anyone on this forum who would choose to buy a house next door to an auto repair shop?
> 
> ...


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