# Weeds are taking over...help



## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

When I first bought this house a little over a year ago I had a few weeds but no big deal...one year later now I have about 5-8 different weeds that are taking over my lawn. I have either bermuda or st.augestine grass (not sure which they look the same to me). I was looking at a weed and feed but after reading a lot of the posts here I agree it seems stupid to feed the lawn and weeds and try and kill the weeds at the same time. I was at home depot looking at the different sprays that hook up to a hose that are weed killers but dont kill the grass. Or is it better to buy something that goes into a spreader and needs to be watered in. Its been raining a lot lately here in south florida, its that time of year, so what do you all think is my best option. Let me know and I can take pictures of the weeds as I have no clue what they are, just know I have a variety of them and they need to go. All but one have leaves of some sort and the other looks like hay of some sort with star like seeds at the top, almost like a firework. Thanks for all your help in advance and look forward to all you input...


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

jstcruzin said:


> When I first bought this house a little over a year ago I had a few weeds but no big deal...one year later now I have about 5-8 different weeds that are taking over my lawn. I have either bermuda or st.augestine grass (not sure which they look the same to me). I was looking at a weed and feed but after reading a lot of the posts here I agree it seems stupid to feed the lawn and weeds and try and kill the weeds at the same time. I was at home depot looking at the different sprays that hook up to a hose that are weed killers but dont kill the grass. Or is it better to buy something that goes into a spreader and needs to be watered in. Its been raining a lot lately here in south florida, its that time of year, so what do you all think is my best option. Let me know and I can take pictures of the weeds as I have no clue what they are, just know I have a variety of them and they need to go. All but one have leaves of some sort and the other looks like hay of some sort with star like seeds at the top, almost like a firework. Thanks for all your help in advance and look forward to all you input...


Rent a sod cutter, remove all of that mess, put down some good top soil/compost/lime, and then seed or lay down good sod.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

If you go with a weed killer don't do broadcast spraying. Use a small sprayer and spray only the weeds.

Weed killer is supposed to kill only weeds but it can harm other plants that you want to keep around.

You are correct in that weed and feed is a joke. Don't go that route.


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## AustinREDevelop (Oct 12, 2008)

you could also sterilize your soil by covering large portions of the affected area with clear plastic and letting the sun cook the seeds, weed, and (unfortunately) the grass.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

Thank you for the suggestions. The first option handyman, isnt an option for me it would be way to expensive for me right now. I would like to use some sort of weed killer I just dont know which one or method of application works best? Any brand or chemical better than another? Also is there a way to thicken the grass to help "drown" out the weeds? Thanks everyone...I'm new to the lawn care thing


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## ccarlisle (Jul 2, 2008)

Well, it's a bit, IMO, like asking: "what medication should I take?" or "what colour should I have?" (as a poster just asked here) or even "what car should I buy?"...Depends.

Up here, our weed-killing efforts are regulated by the municipality and therefore the kinds of weedkillers are limited. Secondly, it depends what weeds you have...as not all are treated the same nor with the same chemical. Third, I guess it depends on the level of 'infestation' you have...a few dandelions here and there - or extensive crabgrass choking out the regular grass.

In severely-regulated communities, a healthy grass is the best and maybe only alternative to fighting weeds. That and a manual elimination one-by-one. In other communities, a weed-by-weed spray bottle is enough but there is no point IMO to use a shotgun approach to kill everything as the grass will probably suffer too.

Best thing? Take a picture and show us what you have - or look it up :yes:


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

jstcruzin,
Could you give us an idea as to how large an area your lawn is and how many weeds you have?



> the other looks like hay of some sort with star like seeds at the top, almost like a firework.


Sounds like maybe nutsedge if it's only about a foot tall. Or, maybe crabgrass.



> it seems stupid to feed the lawn and weeds and try and kill the weeds at the same time.


Not necessarily. That is true with a granular but not so with a liquid. But, they are two different treatments. Read the label- plants need to be growing in order to take up and process the [fertilizer, herbicide, whatever!]. Label says do not apply when plants are under stress. I asked a biology professor once about taking vitamins- morning or night? He told me that you have to metabolize them to use them. Do you metabolize much at night while you are asleep? No, but maybe a bad example. How about right after a hard ballgame, when you are dehydrated. Do you go out to a buffet right after the game? As I said above, plants will use the [...] when they are actively growing and not stressed.

That said, granulars (herbicides) for this purpose need to be applied to wet foilage and NOT watered afterwards. The herbicide needs time to melt and be absorbed into the leave structure. You will see those instructions if you read the label. Fertilizer label says to apply to dry foliage. Wet leaves will cause the fertilizer to burn, whether it's grass, shrubs, whatever. See a contradiction there? Dry for one, wet for the other. With liquids, you don't have that problem. Not to mention you get better coverage (IMO) with the liquids. I would guess from your information so far that you need a broadleaf herbicide but not positive without further info.

If you need to use herbicide for weeds, use herbicide.
If you need to fertilize, then fertilize.
If you need both at the same time, then do both.

Your local extension office can identify you lawn and the weeds.

If you want to through the baby out with the bathwater, then spend several hundred/thousand dollars then start all over and sterilize, solarize, cut everything off, re-sod.

Or, selectively spray what you have with the proper herbicide, follow up with a pre-emergent herbicide, and irrigate and fertilize on a proper schedule.

Worked for me for forty years. University of Georgia agrees.

Georgia Certified Landscape Professional


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

I went out and pulled a bunch of the weeds and I am trying to figure out exactly what they are, but havent had much luck finding good resourses to ID them. One looks very similar to yellow nutsedge. I have one the is like a vine, looks kinda like common chickweed or knotweed another looks to be prostate spurg. There are three or four more I havent found but i'm working on it. The weeds are all in the back yard and starting to go around the sides and to the front which I want to avoid. I would say the area infected by weeds is around 3000 sq feet

I know this sounds like a lot of work but i'm willing to put in the time to do it if it would work and save the money ripping it all up and starting over...going out and pulling up all the weeds I can find and then using a weed and feed to cover my tracks and thicken up the lawn a bit. The grass is healthy that I have just not as thick i'm guessing. Maybe even put down some seed too if it would help. What do you guys think?


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

another one is henbit...


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

Weed killer. Spray each weed that you see. Keep on it till they are gone.

Doesn't matter what they are.

Just kill em.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

Marvin Gardens, do you recommend any weed killers? Brand? type? thanks


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

jstcruzin said:


> Marvin Gardens, do you recommend any weed killers? Brand? type? thanks


Just ask at the local store. They can tell you which one works for your area.

Most weed killers use the same active ingredients since they are controlled by the feds.

It's important to understand how to use it so read the directions carefully.

Get a small sprayer, mix your poison, pump it up and spray your weeds.

Some will die in a few days and others will take a week. Repeat in a week and keep on it till they are all dead.


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## martyshel (Jul 19, 2007)

Image is a good weed killer.. I think Lowe's carries it.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

> Image is a good weed killer.. I think Lowe's carries it.


Costs about four times as much as others. Its main benefit is on nutsedge in lawns. If you don't have much of that, any common broadleaf weed killer will work fine for much cheaper. Be persistant as already mentioned.
A good dose of pre-emergent NOW and again first two weeks of February will prevent most of this next year.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

The key to applying weed killer is to keep the spray to the weed. Weed killer can kill tomato plants and many other "good" plants so be careful where the spray goes.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the good info guys, i realy appreicate it...i'm going to get right on this in the next couple days. I have a couple lime trees, any distance I should keep from them 5ft...10ft? then just pull all the weeds in that area and maintain it that way?


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

jstcruzin said:


> Thanks for all the good info guys, i realy appreicate it...i'm going to get right on this in the next couple days. I have a couple lime trees, any distance I should keep from them 5ft...10ft? then just pull all the weeds in that area and maintain it that way?


Trees are tough and takes a lot to kill them Not to worry about that.

Just keep the spray to a minimum and hit only the weeds.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Whatever you use, check the label for warnings about using near the root zone of desirable plants. The "zines"- atrazine, simazine, etc are particularly notorius for this. Some herbicides will only damage other plants if the spray drifts on them. Some can damage nearby plants by the vapors. This applies to products with a petroleum formulation, especially in hot weather which is not as much a concern now, but... Some can be absorbed by nearby roots. Some do not absorb through the roots at all but work through contact with the foliage.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

Went and picked up some of the image brand weed killer and spray the entire lawn this evening. We'll see what happens in the next couple days...why is this brand three to 4 times more than all the others? I dont mind paying more for a quality product, but curious what makes it better.


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## Kap (Jun 20, 2008)

Read the ingredients. Brand names cost more. Especially if they still hold the patent.

Example

Roundup: active ingredient is glyphosphate. Roundup held the patent for glyphosphate, so they were the only ones making it. They could charge as much as people were willing to pay. Now that the patent is expired, anyone can produce it. Generic brands such as Kleenup Pro and Honcho are the exact same thing-Glyphosphate, but can be close to half the price.

Concentration of active ingredients makes a difference, too. If you buy a ready to use (RTU) mix, you may pay $10 for a gallon. If you buy a concentrate, your cost may only $6 per gallon.


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## Kap (Jun 20, 2008)

Over here, 1 gallon ofroundup super concentrate (50% glyphosphate) is $75. That will make 51 gallons. that's $1.47/gallon mixed.

Kleenup Pro (41% glyphosphate) is only $47/gallon. mixed to equal the same strength as Roundup, it will make only 42 gallons. That comes out to $1.11 mixed. 

So even though the Kleenup Pro has a slightly lower concentration, by the tame your done mixing it, you're still saving money, and getting the exact same product.

And regardless of what you buy, always buy the highest concentration mix you can find. Lower concentrations=spending money on filler/fluff.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

> why is this brand three to 4 times more than all the others?


I told you so!!!!!!!!!

It's because of the research to develope a product that is selective, that is only affects certain plants and not others. Image's claim to fame is that it is effective on nutsedge while safe on turf. Cheap broadleaf weedkillers such as 2,4D are safe on lawns but not effective on nutsedge.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

That's why I went with the Image brand because of the nutsedge, which I have among the 5 or so broadleaf...should I use another brand to help take out the broadleaf weeds or just stick with the one brand? Just trying to maximize my lawn and minimize the weed as quickly yet as safely as possible. It also suggests not to mow the lawn for at least 2 days...do you guys think I should wait longer? I watered it in today as suggested 1 to 7 days after spraying it on. I dont see much of a change but I know it could take up to 5 weeks to work. Some bottles stated "starts working" and "notice a change" the working part ok, but I dont notice any changes yet...

I want to thank everyone that has tossed out there .02 and helped me out with this. I really think i'm going to save my lawn here and I have all you to thank...


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

jstcruzin said:


> That's why I went with the Image brand because of the nutsedge, which I have among the 5 or so broadleaf...should I use another brand to help take out the broadleaf weeds or just stick with the one brand? Just trying to maximize my lawn and minimize the weed as quickly yet as safely as possible. It also suggests not to mow the lawn for at least 2 days...do you guys think I should wait longer? I watered it in today as suggested 1 to 7 days after spraying it on. I dont see much of a change but I know it could take up to 5 weeks to work. Some bottles stated "starts working" and "notice a change" the working part ok, but I dont notice any changes yet...
> 
> I want to thank everyone that has tossed out there .02 and helped me out with this. I really think i'm going to save my lawn here and I have all you to thank...


Stick with one and see how it works. If it doesn't then check that one off your list and try another after you have used up all of that one.

Just a word of caution. This is a poison and use the amount necessary to get the job done. Don't get carried away. Over time you will know which weeds need more spray on them and which need less.

Give the weeds time to die. Sometimes they can take a week or so. If after than they don't die then hit em again.

Glad we could help you out.


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## mhgcsuper (Oct 28, 2008)

First find out what kind of grass you have. there are very few herbies that you can put on bermuda and st. augustine without killing one or the other. bermuda looks nothing like st. augustine. you may be thinking centipede and st. aug but bermuda and st aug, there is no comparison. st. aug leaf is the size of a quarter and bermuda the size of a dime just for comparison sake. I do this for a living as a golf course superintendent. If you have bermuda the only thing you have to stay away from herbicide wise is Poast and atrazine (that you can buy legally). If you have alot of spurge problems you probably have a nematode problem. If you live in Fla. and have spurge I would say 99% you have a nematode prob (hire a professional). If you find out what kind of grass send me an email. For a few bucks I will develop you an entire years worth of lawn care plans. Seriously not just shooting bull. Been a supt. for 16 years in the carolina's. I'll help you just find out what kind of grass.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

super,

Good call on the nematodes!:thumbsup:
If my memory serves me, are they not more common in sandy soil, something not a primary concern in the Atlanta area, except maybe on a GC?

May I look over your shoulder and add that the active ingredient in Poast is sethoxydim, which is a selective *grass killer.* Other products with that AI would be equally detrimental to a lawn. The other selective grass killer is fluazifop-P-butyl, or Fusilade. Both are excellent for getting bermuda out of flower beds and shrub beds.

Personally, I am not a big fan of atrazine. In my opinion, it has too many drawbacks for a job that other products can do. However, it remains one of the largest selling herbicides worldwide. To save time and space, anyone wanting further info would be advised to simply Google atrazine.


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## mhgcsuper (Oct 28, 2008)

downunder,
you are exactly right about the sandy soil and nematodes. In my area in SC it is mostly loam type and clay. Loamy soil is susceptible but not usual for nematodes. Main thing was the grass type before making herbie recommendations.


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## jstcruzin (Jul 9, 2008)

Looks like the Image product killed a lot of my weeds but I still have two different weed left. Its been a couple weeks from applying the Image. Should I re apply and see if it kills these two the second time around or should I try something else to take these remaining weeds out? I'll try and post some pictures of the two remaining weeds or get you the names of them as i'm not sure of the names right now. 

Thanks for everyones help this far!! It is greatly appreciated. Also what should I do to help build up the grass I have now. Hope Depo suggested a natural nitrogen Milorganate fertilizer, what do you think? They told me it wont burn and I should but dont have to water it in. Any other suggestions...Thanks again.


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## Marvin Gardens (Sep 30, 2008)

Just nitrogen since your lawn is established. Something like at 20-0-0 would be fine.

It's easy to not burn your lawn with fertilizer. Just don't put on too much. It's that simple.


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## downunder (Jun 13, 2008)

Milorganite is basically over-marketed compost. Yes, it has some fertilizer value- as does compost. But this is not "fertilizer" in the general sense.

Not saying that it is bad for your yard. But it would be more appropriate as a soil amendment/topdressing for shrubs, perennials, etc.


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