# Table Saw Recommendation



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

I am looking to buy my first new Table Saw. I currently have a 30+ year old craftsman saw that has served me until now (my brother gave it to me when I bought my first house, he had used it for woodworking for 15 years before that), but the fence is gone and the blade adjustment wheel won't move anymore and its binding up even with new blades. I mainly used that saw for ripping molding and flooring. I am weekend DIYer and just starting to get into wood work. I will be doing some built-in book shelves, a bench for a mud room, etc. 

I love tools, and I don't have a problem buying quality when I need it and use it everyday, but it seems to me with table saws it jumps from dirt cheap (Ryobi and HF) to $600-$5000. I am not really sure what I need and just looking for some advice. I use my current table saw about 4-5 times a year. 

I have looked at the HF and Ryobi saws. I have also looked at the Dewalt and Rigid jobsite saws which are 5x the price of Ryobi and HF. Any help that anyone can give?


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

This is the DeWalt saw I am looking at:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F9II676/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00F2CGXGG&linkCode=as2&tag=tablesawchoice-20&linkId=XCL5Z6U2HKUKP7JS&th=1


----------



## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I would not buy a table saw without doing a hands on inspection. With so much JUNK on the market we may be better off with an old craftsman and using a 2x4 clamped to the table as a rip fence. 

I recommend going to a store to look and feel , kind of like shopping for a wife because you plan on having her for a long time.:wink2:


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I would spend the money on getting my Craftsman tuned up properly, and buying a biesemeyer fence for it. 

Things built in the last century are generally better than any new stuff.

ED


----------



## ddawg16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't be knocking the Ryobi......I have one. It does an excellent job.


----------



## mustangsally (Aug 26, 2016)

I had the bosch until GF sold it behind my back, and loved it but also in market for new one and have heard great reviews about the dewalt you are referencing to here.


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

Senior:

I have been to Home Depot and looked at that DeWalt for a cursory glance. I will definitely give it a better look soon

de-nagorg:
I would, if this were a huge cabinet saw. This is table top saw and I would need to order completely new guts. I understand the sentiment, but in this case I am not sure its worth it.

ddawg
No knocking at all. I have the 12" Ryobi Miter saw that I love so much. I am just not sure if the table saw is where I want to skimp, or if the small Ryobi compact saw will do everything I want to do (like rip 4x8 sheets).


----------



## 47_47 (Sep 11, 2007)

Many good used cabinet saws out there. Maybe more $$$ than you want to spend, but they are worth the money for serious woodworking.


----------



## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

chrisb75 said:


> Senior:
> 
> I have been to Home Depot and looked at that DeWalt for a cursory glance. I will definitely give it a better look soon
> 
> ...



"Ryobi compact saw will do everything I want to do (like rip 4x8 sheets)."



4x8 sheets should be ripped with a circular saw,not a table saw.


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

Canarywood1 said:


> "Ryobi compact saw will do everything I want to do (like rip 4x8 sheets)."
> 
> 
> 
> 4x8 sheets should be ripped with a circular saw,not a table saw.


Sometimes. If I am looking to just rip down a sheet of OSB then I agree. If am cutting shelves out of 4x8 hardwood stock, I am using a table saw with an outfeed table.


----------



## NickTheGreat (Jul 25, 2014)

I have the Ridgid jobsite saw. It does a great job, and folds up and goes away well. 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...R4513/100090444?N=5yc1vZc29i#customer_reviews

It depends what you want to do with it. It's not the same as a good cabinet saw, but I don't have space to dedicate to one in my shop. 

I was going between it, the DeWalt and the Bosch. That day, the Ridgid was cheaper considering it came with the stand. :smile:


----------



## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

Just a couple of thoughts.

1) Buy the best saw you can afford. It should last a long time. If you want to skimp (cheap), do it on another tool. The table saw is the center of your woodworking world. There are lots of jigs that can be built to make the saw a versatile machine.

2) Size does matter (see picture below of Dewalt and Grizzly saws). The compact job saws have a small table so you will need outfeed and possibly infeed support for ripping boards longer than 2 feet in length. Just my opinion.

3) Compact saws are loud!

4) Compact saws may not accept stacked dado blades. Mine won't. The arbor is too short. But I have used 2ea 7 1/4 rip blades to cut the grooves for 23 drawer bottoms. That worked well.

5) Check the miter slots to insure they are 3/4 inch wide. Some saws won't accept standard miter slot accessories. My Dewalt has the 3/4 inch slots and the Incra miter gauge fits both of my saws. Look underneath the DeWalt (as it was set up at the clients house) and you will see my Incra miter gauge sitting on the box.

6) Good blades make a difference. Buy a good blade for ripping your stock. A good crosscut blade will make cross cutting a smooth deal.

Here are some pics. First one is the DeWalt compact saw sitting on top of a Grizzly 3hp cabinet saw. The Grizz wil outlive me and probably the next guy that it belongs to. The little Dewalt is useful on the job site such as remodeling a kitchen. That was the reason I bought it. It came in handy for cutting trim.

Other pics show the short arbor on the Dewalt and the blade setup I used for cutting the drawer grooves. BTW, I love the rack and pinion fence alignment system on the DeWalt.

Hope this helps.
Mike


----------



## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

chrisb75 said:


> Sometimes. If I am looking to just rip down a sheet of OSB then I agree. If am cutting shelves out of 4x8 hardwood stock, I am using a table saw with an outfeed table.




Just to dangerous even on a cabinet saw, unless your set up like a cabinet shop , just my 2 cents.


----------



## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

Canarywood1 said:


> Just to dangerous even on a cabinet saw, unless your set up like a cabinet shop , just my 2 cents.


Me neither. I use a track saw to break the sheet goods down to manageable size. I always have a cut list in hand when I go to the lumber yard. They will make several cuts if you ask. That helps this old guy handle them better.


----------



## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

I obviously don't know what condition yours is in, but dollar for dollar those old Craftsman table saws are hard to beat, so agree with Ed at least as far as giving it a thorough tune-up. It will cost you some time, probably a couple of hours, but most likely little or no money, after which you can decide whether to update it with a new fence or retire it. Get the dust out of the way and clean the adjustment screws with pitch remover, followed by a few drips of light oil. The trunnion, carriage, or whatever you want to call it should be adjustable to allow the blade to be realigned with the table. After cleaning, there are any number of ways to bring the polish back to the top of the table. That's what I would do.


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

I appreciate all the input! I decided to go with a jobsite saw for now. I think that gives me the best of all worlds in portability, power, and accuracy for my needs. I went with the Dewalt saw I linked in the beginning. I guess many of the shortfalls of the original release (bad table quality and poor miter gauge) have been fixed. It should be here on Monday! I cannot wait!

:vs_karate:


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

What are your plans for the old Craftsman saw.

Don't throw it out, offer it to someone willing to repair it and put it to a useful life again.

Post your location, and see if one of the folks here is willing to adopt your outcast.

ED


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

de-nagorg said:


> What are your plans for the old Craftsman saw.


I already found someone to take it. While I appreciate the desire to fix old things, this saw was nothing special. Its smaller than the table top saws of today. If it was a larger saw or more of a cabinet type, I would be willing to put more into it. By the time I bought and found a new fence, new belts, a stand, and got it tuned up, I would have spent WAY more then the saw was worth.


----------



## MT Stringer (Oct 19, 2008)

Post some pics when you get it set up. :surprise::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:


----------



## SPG43 (Jul 17, 2016)

What? No love for the Bosch 4100 series? I've been using their job site saw with the gravity rise stand for 10 years with no complaints. I thought it was pretty much a standard amongst contractors. 
Then again if I was buying a new one today I'd take a good long look at the SawStop. I think the potential cost of a couple fingers would offset the slightly higher price tag.


----------



## chrisb75 (Nov 26, 2013)

I will have to try and post pictures later, but I have had the saw for about a week. I haven't done much on it yet as I am just finishing up rough electrical and HVAC vents. I have made a few cuts on it and I am super impressed. Cuts and rips 2x lumber like it was nothing. Used it to cut down a 4ft x 4ft 3/4 inch piece of plywood to make a little access box for my cable and phone lines. Again, cut through like butter. The setup was easy and the rolling stand is fantastic. I can't wait to put it through some more paces once I start trim work.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Keep your blade sharp and it will continue to perform well.

ED


----------



## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

I'm late to this party - I've actually waited several days before posting.

I've know two people who really hurt themselves on table saws. Both were working alone, at home, on a remodeling project. Both suffered serious, permanent injuries to their arm/hand. Indeed, the injuries were severe enough that their ability to get themselves to the hospital were at risk.

One of these two was a construction pro, who had used his table saw on job sites for years. I can't call him 'inexperienced.'

Now, I've had professional training in operating table saws. I've even operated one in an industrial setting, making solid wood furniture of all types. Visit Golda Meir's old home in Israel, and you'll see an armoire I rebuilt. I'm not some fearful chicken little.

Still, when the time comes in my remodel when I can no longer avoid getting a table saw, there are only TWO makes I'll consider:

Bosch Reaxx and SawStopper.

These saws have a means to instantly prevent the blade from hurting you. Saws that will easily chew up a 4-by- and are completely incapable of cutting a simple hot dog in two.

I'd say its' time for this feature to be 'normal.'


----------



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

KarenStein said:


> I'd say its' time for this feature to be 'normal.'


Can you clarify what you mean by that?


----------



## SPG43 (Jul 17, 2016)

I think Karen was trying to say that this safety feature should be standard, like seat belts in a car and not an expensive option.


----------



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

SPG43 said:


> I think Karen was trying to say that this safety feature should be standard, like seat belts in a car and not an expensive option.


I am not overly familiar with the cost of the technology. The 2 saws mentioned are over $1200 each are they not? 
Is there some reason to think the technology could be applied to a cheaper saw for someone on a budget?
Is there some evidence other than anecdotal that an alarming number of people are getting permanently injured?


----------



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Just did a little reading/watching up on the technology. Its clearly a nice feature but I can't see it becoming mandatory unless the price can come way down. 
I also see that the braking mechanism, like a bike helmet or car seat is a one incident item. If the brake is triggered it needs replacing at about $69. So you don't want to show your pals how it works after a couple "pops". :vs_no_no_no:


----------



## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

It never fails; introduce a 'new' idea, and some self-appointed "smartest person in the room' will pooh-pooh the idea, conjuring all manner of objections. Naturally, they can't just sit back and say 'by golly, there's a different way to do things!'

$1200? How much is your hand worth? 

"SawStopper" was invented in response to the well documented record of injuries using table saws. When OSHA was created in the 70's, one of the first 'concerns' they tried to address was the dangers posed by table saws; one of OSHA's first Supreme Court cases involved a saw guard that didn't comply with OSHA regulations. The guard maker, btw, won. (Google BrettGuard). The record of injuries is there.

SawStopper got into the business simply because EVERY saw maker declined to use his invention, even at a token royalty fee. In some rather convoluted reasoning, the manufacturers' counsel feared a safer saw would put them in a worse legal position. Again, the briefs are available; there's been plenty of litigation that brought them to light. Again, the litigation involved victims of accidents going after the saw makers.

After some of this litigation, saw makers formed a trade group, got UL involved in writing a saw "standard," and now are happy to assert their saws meet an 'industry-recognised standard.' IMO, this was a gross abuse of the UL standards process - and I serve on multiple UL standards writing committees, so I know of what I speak.

I have NEVER advocated anything be "required," as in 'by government regulation. I'd like to see things become universal because of customer demand. Does it work? Well, when was the last time you used a gas station that didn't have a public restroom? The market works, every time it's tried.

Oddly enough, it seems the saw making industry did its darndest to blackball this technology. Kudos to Bosch for breaking with the crowd. Please note Bosch waited for the patent to expire first ... 

Both the SawStopper and Bosch saws are quality saws. It's not fair to compare their prices to the cheapest kludge out there.

Will folks pay for quality? Well, lets see .... BMW and Yugo both met the same 'minimum standards.' Which is still in business?

In any event, the customer can't make an informed choice without ... information. That's why I posted.

More amazing is that the critics in this thread were not aware of the SawStopper. Heck, they've been making saws for only twenty years ...:vs_OMG:

That's why I said it's past time for this technology to become readily available.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I did not knock it. I think that it is a good idea.
And I knew about them from their outset.

You asked when was the last time I gassed up and there was no public restroom.

LAST WEEK.

And it is a retail "stop n rob".


ED


----------



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

KarenStein said:


> It never fails; introduce a 'new' idea, and some self-appointed "smartest person in the room' will pooh-pooh the idea, conjuring all manner of objections. Naturally, they can't just sit back and say 'by golly, there's a different way to do things!'


Nobody pooh-poohed the idea. I questioned whether it was too costly to force some sort of mandate. 




KarenStein said:


> $1200? How much is your hand worth?


Not relevant. Its worth enough that when using a table saw I don't put my hands anywhere near the blades. Thats what push sticks are for. They are easy to make or buy. 





KarenStein said:


> I have NEVER advocated anything be "required," as in 'by government regulation.


We are on the same page. That was my original question to you, a clarification of what you meant by _"its' time for this feature to be 'normal.' _ 



KarenStein said:


> I'd like to see things become universal because of customer demand.


I would suggest that will only happen when saws at a moderate price are available. 



KarenStein said:


> Both the SawStopper and Bosch saws are quality saws. It's not fair to compare their prices to the cheapest kludge out there.


It is when not everybody can afford a $1700 saw for perhaps limited use.



KarenStein said:


> Will folks pay for quality? Well, lets see .... BMW and Yugo both met the same 'minimum standards.' Which is still in business?


Simply no point to the comment. Every major car maker sells cars at a variety of price points. You can buy a Lexus (Toyota) for over $130,000 or a Corolla for under $18,000 




KarenStein said:


> In any event, the customer can't make an informed choice without ... information. That's why I posted.


I have no problem with the post, or the saw. I just wasn't sure of what you meant by one comment. While waiting for clarification another comment offered an interpretation. 



KarenStein said:


> More amazing is that the critics in this thread were not aware of the SawStopper.


I was aware of the saw, I've seen the hotdog videos. I wasn't aware of the technology behind it. After a little research I am now aware. It looks like a great idea but the saw as its currently price is too expensive for me.



KarenStein said:


> Heck, they've been making saws for only twenty years ...


Actually more like 12 years. According to their own website they sold the first one in 2004. They invented the technology in 1999.

I think the technology is a great idea and I too hope its readily available to anyone who wants it. 
My only "concern" was whether you were suggesting some sort of Government mandate and since you cleared that up we are mostly on the same page :vs_cool:


----------



## SPG43 (Jul 17, 2016)

How much do you think it would cost to make one seatbelt, airbag, collision avoidance system, or backup camera from scratch? How much do you think it would cost to make them for one car model only? Now, how much do you think that price would drop if they were in every car? Oh, right ...they are now and have become pretty cheap. These safety features deliver cost savings in the total when you figure how much would be spent on injuries, deaths, and lost labor.
The $500 or so additional that a SawStop or Reaxx cost over a comparable "regular" saw would drop at least in half if not more if it was in every saw. 
Another point on costs is that the Bosch Reaxx does not damage the blade and only needs a new cartridge which I think costs about $25 to replace. If all the saws started using this technology, I'd expect that further improvements would come about that would make it even better and more cost effective.


----------



## KarenStein (May 30, 2016)

Well said, SPG.

As best I can tell, the 'finger proofing' feature adds about $500 to the retail price of a saw. 

To put this in perspective, the wheeled cart adds $200, a good guard adds $150, and a good blade $100. A larger outfeed table seems to kick the price up $700 (more than the safety gizmo)

So, I ask again: How much is your hand / arm worth?

(Heck, try to get an aspirin at an emergency room for only $500!

One can talk about push sticks, guards, training, etc., all day ... but at the end of the day, a lot of life-changing accidents are happening. Anyone who doubts this need only visit any job site or factory, and start looking at hands. Professional hands - not some DIY laying around.

Yes, I am sure prices will come down as more makers use this technology. Remember lasers? What once cost $800 you can get for $100 .... amazing what happens when the patent expires!

Personally, I think it's kinda crappy the way industry prefers to 'wait out' patents, rather than pay even a token fee - but that's a topic for another time.

My numbers (above) are, at best, just guesses. For example, the price of the stand was found by finding someone who sold the stands- yet that very stand, when combined with a saw, has the effect of reducing the price of the saw $20. That is, I can get a saw, with stand, for $20 less than I can get the same saw alone. 

Yes, there is a cost to errors. Trigger the device and it's Adios $$$$. Again, how much is your hand worth? These devices have not had problems with false firings.

In California there is the Sierra Army Depot. This is where old munitions are taken apart. Automatic suppression systems are in place. Every so often, someone gets suddenly soaked. You'd swear there was a false alarm, except a review of the security tape shows that, yes, the explosive actually did ignite - but the system responded so fast that even a small fire was prevented.

Where there are complaints of false firings on these devices, I would not be surprised to find that they really did prevent an injury.


----------



## craig11152 (Jun 20, 2015)

Turns out there seems to be some misinformation provided in this thread.
The patents owned by SawStop have not expired and they are embroiled in a law suit against Bosch over alleged patent infringement concerning its Reaxx "hotdog" saw. Latest judicial ruling went to SawStop but Bosch is not done fighting.


----------

