# Garage renovation/vaulted ceiling & removing "ceiling joists"



## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

No, you cannot remove those. Your one wall is not adequate to restrain the spread along the entire length of the walls. In fact, from your picture, it doesn't appear as your cross tied wall provides a continuous connection from outside wall to outside wall. It appears there are two boards butted to each other over the stud second from the right. Only if there is a solid foundation under that wall would it be adequate to perform as a load bearing wall so unless you have done that, you need an adequate tie between the two outside walls.

So, without a proper foundation under the wall, you will still have spread as the support compacts.

You can leave those cross ties in place and finish the ceiling as you wish. It just means you will have exposed cross ties in the space. It is often included intentionally like that as an architectural detail. You can box them to make them larger so they appear to be "beams" rather that boards or simply finish them out with some finish of your choice.


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## brandonlaundry (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks Nap. That newly framed wall actually sits on and is bolted to the original concrete slab. I've noticed that the two crossing 2x4s are attached to the top plate of the wall, but not the roof rafter. Are these cross ties being used for wall support or as collar ties? What you're suggesting is a decorative truss, correct? Like a scissor tie (i grabbed an image and attached it)? Would that provide the support needed to avoid any wall deflection?


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## mrgins (Jan 19, 2009)

The image you posted would not give you the support you need, especially if you get any significant snow fall. All you need to do is incorporate a tie from plate to plate above the new wall and then an exposed one at the other 1/3 place in the addition. This month's edition of Fine Homebuilding or Journal of Light Construction shows how cables were used to pull in an exterior wall. The cables were left exposed and done in a way that made them part of the exposed structural elements and obviously less visible than a 2x tie.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

a collar tie, from my understanding, is a cross tie near the peak of the roof. It is to keep the rafters together at the peak during periods of uplift. They would not provide adequate restraint to tie the walls together to prevent spread as the leverage applied would easily overpower their ability to restrain the rafters.


the boards you are dealing with would simply be joists as far as I understand.

They are intended to prevent the spread of the rafters which are attached to the walls so both would end up spreading. I cannot tell you which is the most proper method of attaching but since the rafters are attached to the top plate of the wall, to me, it becomes a moot point. 

to the ties on the trusses; not what you are looking for. 



> What you're suggesting is a decorative truss, correct?


no. just suggesting you can dress up the joists that are present.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

As said earlier, the rafter ties need to stay in place; http://myconco.com/ComEngProb.html

The 2009 IRC makes a distinction of rafter ties/collar ties; http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_8_sec002_par018.htm

If you change the rafter ties to larger size, follow the nailing of the rafter/tie connection, scroll down to the last Table 802.5.1(9) here; http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_8_sec002_par023.htm

Gary


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## brandonlaundry (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the info and especially the link to the free code guidelines. Very helpful.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Glad we could help! Come back again soon....

Gary


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