# Kitchen remodel



## leiona

I am about to begin a diy kitchen remodel and...well heres the ugly kitchen i have to work with...
along with the beautiful new slabs of wood i just bought to start on the island.


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## leiona

and the slabs..unfinished


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## leiona

I am new to carpentry and I've only built a few things before so this remodel should be interesting..
if all goes well I will end up with a rustic, cottage style country kitchen.
will post pics as i go but, the real reason i started a thread is to get all the advice everyones willing to give..
thanks ahead for all your help!:thumbsup:


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## leiona

ugly..the kitchen that is, not my Chloe!! 
so now i need to seal and stain? (not sure).. these slabs. but with what and what to fill the holes in with. epoxy? the guy who sold me the slabs said tongue oil instead of stain, and my genius local (to the site) mentor, cocobolo is going to let me know what he thinks once he finds out the type of wood i'm using here
...which is yellow poplar btw


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## cocobolo

Hi there...figured I better drop by and say hello at least.

I just posted a reply - of sorts - on my thread, so you might want to read that first. I'll be happy to walk you through any questions on your thread...it's what we do here.

I must say again how much I really do like those slabs. :thumbup:

Can I ask you how thick they are, and the width and length? Thanks.


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## leiona

oops ..i just posted a reply on your thread because i checked it first.. i wasnt sure if youd come to my party lol :wink:
the slabs..all four..are 2 1/2 in thick..5 feet long..and 32 in wide together at the widest part. they weigh about 50-60 lb apiece, each set has two pieces. ill use one set for a table and one for the island.
I will keep my rambling on this thread now that i know your visiting, i promise !


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## CoconutPete

Good luck!

I gutted my kitchen 2 weeks ago. I'm doing wood countertops, just regular butcherblock ones though. I'm treating them w/ Waterlox in my basement right now, hopefully I can get coat #4 on by Thursday night so I can install them this weekend.

Looking forward to some updates!


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## leiona

I was gonna go with butcherblock but my budget for this entire kitchen is 2000.00 ! so i guess i'm stuck making them myself...it will be awhile for those though..i gotta get the island and lower cabinets built..then the scary task of finishing the slab..hope i dont mess THAT up!


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## leiona

Before i continue, I guess some may want to know a little about me so I'm not a blank....
I'm a 35 year old mom of three boys, three cats, two dogs, and 2 turtles, and a fiancee.
I'm a dog groomer by trade, and a carpenter by the skin of my teeth. I wish i knew more about it.
I paint canvas and murals, play guitar, and i love my gardens and yardwork.
I'm taking on this project because feeding five people in that horrid kitchen has become unbearable...even my shoddy cabinetmaking would be better, not that i've ever made a cabinet mind you..
I will have no helpers above 13 years old and the only thing ive ever built so far is my sons bed frame. 
So...like i said. this should be interesting :yes:


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## Two Knots

I admire you taking on this task. Where is your fridge, and is your
fiancee handy? I hope so.  what are your plans for table legs?
(or are you using your current table base?)
and the Island bottom?

Your table looks nice, does it have a leaf? If you put in the leaf,
wouldn't that be big enough for five people?
you also could pick up 2 more chairs...I picked up great looking
chairs at our local good-will store.


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## leiona

right now my fridge is in the dining room..it will go in the corner where the kitchen table is after we cut that doorway out 36 in wider. 
I plan to make a simple base like the one in this pic for the island.
together the slabs only weigh about 110 lb
unfortunately..my fiancee is either out of town or he's working on our basement remodel...which i will post pics of when we start on it again


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> oops ..i just posted a reply on your thread because i checked it first.. i wasnt sure if youd come to my party lol :wink:
> the slabs..all four..are 2 1/2 in thick..5 feet long..and 32 in wide together at the widest part. they weigh about 50-60 lb apiece, each set has two pieces. ill use one set for a table and one for the island.
> I will keep my rambling on this thread now that i know your visiting, i promise !


Of course I'll come to your party! 

You don't have a big budget for the kitchen, but it should be adequate given that you are going to do the work yourself. The two most expensive rooms in any house are always the kitchen and the bathroom...and you have picked the most expensive of the two!

Is it possible to find out when these trees were cut down that the slabs come from, and can you check the present moisture content?

One thing I might suggest is that you get the slabs inside the house (preferably in the kitchen) so that they become acclimatized to the inside environment.

Here's another suggestion. Weigh each of the slabs on your bathroom scale and keep a note of the weight. Perhaps attach a piece of paper to the back of each slab. Check the weight every two weeks or so to see if they are getting lighter.

You don't want to be getting the wood sealed prematurely, it needs to be dry first.


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## leiona

gotcha..i put the wood in the kitchen..i'll call the guy and ask how long they've been cut and drying for. im just gonna sand on it for awhile while i concentrate on building the base.
what do you think about varnishing the underside so i can attach it to the base while i work on the top side? i really have nowhere else to work on it but the floor, ..thats not an option with all these kids and animals here!
Ill have ahell of a time too if i varnish the top 'cause of the dust from the woodburner in here, and the hair flying around!
i like the way you attached the legs to your slab table...do you think i could get the same effect by gluing two 2x4's together and attaching them to the top 2x4 support like so...

i hope its clear enough to see..slab seller just called me back. wood has been cut for two years ..dried in his kiln for four months


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## cocobolo

You could attach them like that, but use a single 4 x 4, or 3 x 3 rather than two 2 x 4's...it will look much better.

And if it is possible to get some poplar which roughly matches your slabs it will look better yet.

You could also use metal brackets to attach the legs instead of using 2 x 4's for that underside frame. That way you wouldn't see the attachment system, and you wouldn't lose any legroom below the table top.

No varnishing yet until you find out about the moisture content, please.


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## shumakerscott

You and Snav should compare notes. Here is her thread http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/new-skin-old-funeral-our-homes-renovation-s-119175/ She has done a great job with few tools. dorf dude...


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## leiona

DDude.. I checked out snavs thread and she is awesome. 
Hopefully she wont mind if I copy some of her ideas cause lord knows i got no idea whatsoever how to build a cabinet!:confused1:
But now I do!! I love this chatroom...It has already helped me beyond belief. thank you


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## leiona

BTW dude....i wonder if you could tell me how to get a profile pic up? every time i try it says that it failed to upload..i checked the size but they meet the specs so i'm lost


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## shumakerscott

leiona said:


> BTW dude....i wonder if you could tell me how to get a profile pic up? every time i try it says that it failed to upload..


You have to shrink it. This site has extreme limitations on picture size. dorf dude...


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## leiona

a pic of one of my paintings i just sold


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## leiona

shumakerscott said:


> You have to shrink it. This site has extreme limitations on picture size. dorf dude...


i shrunk it twisted it turned it and tried to sell it...still no acceptance. oh well noone needs to see my face anyways..but i did have a self portrait i was gonna put up as my profile pic..here it is.....


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> a pic of one of my paintings i just sold


Very nice! You should go to the craft forum (another site belonging to this outfit) and get your art work up there as well.


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## leiona

maybe i will Kieth..thank you! cant wait to do one of your sunsets...the one in the page 100 range with all the snow piled up is nice too.


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## leiona

Ok enough of that artsy fartsy crap! 
Getting down to buisiness....
have to take down the uppers so i built temporary shelves so i'd have a place for all the stuff...now the nasty buisiness of removing the upper cabinets with a thirteen year old helping....is it even worth it? 
we shall see.........


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Ok enough of that artsy fartsy crap!
> Getting down to buisiness....
> have to take down the uppers so i built temporary shelves so i'd have a place for all the stuff...now the nasty buisiness of removing the upper cabinets with a thirteen year old helping....is it even worth it?
> we shall see.........


It will be in the end.

And who knows, maybe you will come out of all this with a willing and talented helper, you never know.


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## leiona

Actually my helper was my 12 year old and he was a great worker! he said he wants to keep helping...whew..he's as big as me so thats good.
He unscrewed all the flathead screws for me HA! :whistling2:.....hate those

Anyways, the uppers are down..and the tile is getting massacred next.. i love this project!!
now what to do with this awful hood cabinet....hood from 1960


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## leiona

last post tonight i am beat...
now if someone (bud) would just tell me if i have to kill myself scraping ALL this glue off or if i can put a new backsplash on right over it...please say right over it 

...also if by some miracle bud or another tile guy finds this post....can you tell me if i can tile over the vinyl floor thats already there. boy does it look like it will be tough to remove


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Actually my helper was my 12 year old and he was a great worker! he said he wants to keep helping...whew..he's as big as me so thats good.
> He unscrewed all the flathead screws for me HA! :whistling2:.....hate those
> 
> Anyways, the uppers are down..and the tile is getting massacred next.. i love this project!!
> now what to do with this awful hood cabinet....hood from 1960


What's this I see?

A young man actually helping his mom? No baseball cap on backwards? No long unkempt hair? And a smile on his face!? Wow! He's a keeper, better not let him go anytime soon! Good looking young man too! :thumbsup:

Between you and me, I think Bud might have seen your thread already, just don't tell him I said that.


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## leiona

Im up to page 166 or so on your thread and i LOVE the decorative windows...insanely beautiful. 
To be honest he just got it cut ..it was unruly not two days ago ;P
I hope bud tells me what to do, i have no idea at all. Who takes on a project they know nothing about...? ME

another painting you will like...may be blurred. i do not have a good camera.. well heres a couple..


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## leiona

this may be a better one..this was my first painting on canvas


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> this may be a better one..this was my first painting on canvas


That was your _first_ one? Quite the imagination you have!


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## shumakerscott

Here is you self portrait shrunk down.


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## CoconutPete

12 or 13 is a fine age to start. I started playing around in the shop with my grandfather when I was 8 or so and I was out there with him a week before he passed back in 99. He is the reason I take on projects here 24 years later. It's a great foundation for the future. I have a white collar job and I never get sick of the odd looks of people's faces when they see me with paint all over my cut up hands Monday morning.

How many floors are there? Is it just the one? I took 2 out of my kitchen 2 weeks ago, not really a lot of skill and special tools involved, just a LOT of elbow grease.


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## leiona

well pete...my issue with the floor is that its laid over top of another vinyl floor thats been there since the house was built in 1960...while the 1960 glue may be hardened and easy to get off (havent tried yet
)..the "newer" vinyl is laid with EXtremely sticky glue that leaves a really sticky residue when you pull it off. I'll have to wait and see what people say before i start on that i guess.
Wish i could just lay down a new subfloor over all of it and go from there but if i do that, my back door wont be able to open...and believe me, getting the old man to re-hang the door will be next to impossible


Thanks DDude for adjusting my picture..i'll try it again.​


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## leiona

Ok Shumaker...i tried getting your version of the self portrait up there and it tells me this...
"Upload of file failed."
Thats ok it dosent matter really...its strange though, even though it dosent appear under my name in the chatroom...it comes up on my profile page.


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## leiona

Oh BTW Keith...I don't believe we've discussed how to tell the moisture content of my slabs or if you think 4 mo. in the kiln, and two years in his basement will likely be ok. they still seem fresh......

oh oh and, the holes I keep talking about filling are called "loose knots" i found the term in your thread lol :thumbsup:

I just want to know how to keep the loose knots intact. i like em


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## shumakerscott

leiona said:


> Ok Shumaker...i tried getting your version of the self portrait up there and it tells me this...
> "Upload of file failed."
> Thats ok it dosent matter really...its strange though, even though it dosent appear under my name in the chatroom...it comes up on my profile page.


I don't know whats going on. I resized it again. It meets all the criteria but still fails to upload. I tried to use it as my profile pic and no go. Sorry.


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## leiona

Well I'm off to buy an orbital sander to start making a mess with...gonna try to get some sanding done on the cabinets and take that awful hood cabinet down. at least i wont have to look at that. Thanks for all your help so far


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Oh BTW Keith...I don't believe we've discussed how to tell the moisture content of my slabs or if you thing 4 mo. in the kiln, and two years in his basement will likely be ok. they still seem fresh......
> 
> oh oh and, the holes I keep talking about filling are called "loose knots" i found the term in your thread lol :thumbsup:
> 
> I just want to know how to keep the loose knots intact. i like em


It sounds to me as though your seller must have had a solar kiln.

As long as his basement was dry, you should be good to go.

Loose knots, as they appear now, are unlikely to change in size any more if they have been inside for two years plus. Having said that, your kitchen will undoubtedly be warmer than his basement, and it might have higher humidity as well. The higher humidity will swell the wood - albeit minimally - and help keep the knots in place.

Can you take two or three close up photos of the loose knots and post them? If they don't come up large enough I'll give you my email address and you can send them to me as full size pics.

There are a couple of things you can do to keep the knots from being a problem, but first let's see what you have.


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Well I'm off to buy an orbital sander to start making a mess with...gonna try to get some sanding done on the cabinets and take that awful hood cabinet down. at least i wont have to look at that. Thanks for all your help so far


If you can - get one with a 6" pad on it.

I think I have three r/o sanders here, and the Porter Cable is far and away the best. It's a bit pricey at around $200, but works extremely well. It is a tool that will last you for many years. I think I have had mine for 25 years or so now, and the occasional change of brushes and the pad is all it has ever needed.

The others I have are only 5" pads. It may not seem like much of a difference, but believe me, it is.


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## CoconutPete

leiona said:


> Wish i could just lay down a new subfloor over all of it and go from there but if i do that, *my back door wont be able to open*


Same exact problem I was facing. I had:
- Diagonal 1x6 boards
- 5/8" subfloor
- Sweet dark green sheet vinyl from 1930
- 1/8" plywood
- Crappy sheet vinyl from 2005 or 2006

I had literally 1/16" of clearance under my back door and it annoyed me that I couldn't put a mat there.

Problem was that the old floor was more than likely glued down w/ asbestos or contained asbestos - hence the motivation to remove the entire "package" as one - subfloor, glue, sheet vinyl - without taking it apart or scraping. Like I said...... lots of elbow grease, but I feel it was worth it for peace of mind to use a little extra muscle and buy 4 new sheets of wood for the subfloor. Not sure if this is an option for you.


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## Ironlight

leiona, be sure to check Craig's List before you run off and buy stuff new...that includes tools, sinks, appliances, faucets, tiles, lighting fixtures, you name it. You can get some incredibly good deals and with your budget it will make a big difference.

For the record I have a little Dewalt 1/4 sheet orbital sander that has been a real champ over the past ten years. I've used it for furniture finishing and refinishing and all sorts of finishing sanding around the house. It's a great multi-purpose tool. 

I did not see you mention what you're going to be putting down for your floor. Are you laying ceramic/porcelain tiles? If so I think you're really going to want to take up those two layers for the best result. I would think this is the perfect project for your boys. I mean, it's sanctioned destruction in a controlled environment. 

That said, you could screw down a new subfloor and just cut down the bottom of the floor and raise the threshold. But you're talking about close to 1" of additional height between the subfloor, thinset, and tile. Bud will probably have my head...


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## leiona

well everyone, you have totally convinced me..i will remove the old floor.
I wonder if that asbestos would hurt the kids......

lets not forget, though, the problem of the glue on the wall from the backsplash tile i ripped down,,,will that have to be removed completely before i put up new backsplsh tiles or will sanding it level be ok? 

ironlight- i am hoping for terra cotta tiles but i would consider the new rubber style floors they make to look like anything. they just glue down and you cannot ruin them unless you burn them. their stain proof and water proof..and they just glue down to anything...
they can even be glued to that nasty vinyl :wink:

hey guys thanx for the help here...googling this type of info dosent compare to personal advice from those who know! tomorrow a break from the kitchen to make a desk for my son to match his bed  its his b-day. he's 12

how does this orbital look? 129.00 at amazon. its a 6"..i will order it tomorrow if noone stops me lol..couldnt get one tonight dinner ran long..bennihana japanese steakhouse YUM!


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> how does this orbital look? 129.00 at amazon. its a 6"..i will order it tomorrow if noone stops me lol..couldnt get one tonight dinner ran long..bennihana japanese steakhouse YUM!


That's the one! You're gonna love it. Perfect choice.


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## leiona

good deal. i love amazon and let me tell ya..they have hundreds of choices. Some nice dewalt and others for around 65.00 but they are 5 inch. florida pneumatic is the other one here.


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> good deal. i love amazon and let me tell ya..they have hundreds of choices. Some nice dewalt and others for around 65.00 but they are 5 inch. florida pneumatic is the other one here.


These are completely different machines.

The air powered one is generally for automotive use. The other is for finer finishing only, but the Porter cable can easily handle material removal as well as fine finishing. That's the one you want.


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> For the record I have a little Dewalt 1/4 sheet orbital sander that has been a real champ over the past ten years. I've used it for furniture finishing and refinishing and all sorts of finishing sanding around the house. It's a great multi-purpose tool.
> 
> It's a good little machine, mine is over 20 years old and still going strong. But again, the little pad sanders aren't in the same league as the P.C. random orbital.
> 
> One of the main differences is that the 1/4 sheet pad sanders only go back and forth a small amount, and will often put scratches in your work. You need to make sure to change sandpaper frequently, and not lean on the machine hard at all. Let it do the work for you.
> 
> I use mine frequently when sanding between finishing coats. Generally a minimum of 120 grit, more often 180 or 220, 320 between final coats.


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## leiona

ok..The PC it is! i will order it tonight! maybe ill get lucky and it will be here by monday..coco man, you are a lifesaver ty


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> ok..The PC it is! i will order it tonight! maybe ill get lucky and it will be here by monday..coco man, you are a lifesaver ty


You're more than welcome. This machine will last your lifetime and do what you need right now.
At some future time, you might want to purchase the smaller 1/4 sheet pad sander - I find it very useful - but I don't think you will need a small R/O sander at all.


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## Ironlight

OMG terra cotta tiles are the best! We had them in the kitchen of our last house and they are fabulous...a warm and inviting look, easy to clean, they don't show dirt, they are durable. The one draw back is if you drop a plate on them...end of story for plate. But that's true of basically any tile floor.

We had the slightly irregular ones, in terms of color...I think they are the "Mexican" variety/style. Not sure as we did not put them in.

While I agree with Keith that the big 6" Porter Cable is the best choice for the particular task at hand--your table tops... I always counsel people to get the most versatile tool possible. One benefit of the smaller, 1/4 sheet dewalt and similar is that you can use it for a wide variety of DIY tasks, like prepping walls for paint or taking down old paint, etc. The square shape allows you to get into corners where round sanders can't go. You can probably do all that too with the 6". I just hate to see more than 1/20 of your budget go to a tool that you might use rarely after this project. If you're going to do more furniture, then it is probably a good investment though.


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## Ironlight

Here try this for your profile pic. Should work:


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> OMG terra cotta tiles are the best! We had them in the kitchen of our last house and they are fabulous...a warm and inviting look, easy to clean, they don't show dirt, they are durable. The one draw back is if you drop a plate on them...end of story for plate. But that's true of basically any tile floor.
> 
> We had the slightly irregular ones, in terms of color...I think they are the "Mexican" variety/style. Not sure as we did not put them in.
> 
> While I agree with Keith that the big 6" Porter Cable is the best choice for the particular task at hand--your table tops... I always counsel people to get the most versatile tool possible. One benefit of the smaller, 1/4 sheet dewalt and similar is that you can use it for a wide variety of DIY tasks, like prepping walls for paint or taking down old paint, etc. The square shape allows you to get into corners where round sanders can't go. You can probably do all that too with the 6". I just hate to see more than 1/20 of your budget go to a tool that you might use rarely after this project. If you're going to do more furniture, then it is probably a good investment though.


As you know ironlight, we have better than 1,000 square feet of the Mexican terra cotta tiles here. There's just something about them that is totally unlike any other tile. Yes, they are irregular, yes they have different shades, yes, they are very nice to walk on...almost like they massage your feet. And yes, they are a bit of a pain to install. And while I'm glad they are just about done, I'd probably do it all over again.

As for the sander, I firmly believe it is one of those tools that once you have it, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it...sorta like the Fein multitool, expensive - but when you need it there are times that nothing else will work at all and that's when it pays for itself.

My money says she's going to love that sander.


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## leiona

well guys ..this just in: I went to order the pc sander but first decided to read the reviews...apparently there is a pc7336sander and a pc 7346sander. the pc7336 had rave reviews and the 7346 had terrible reviews, so heres my new dilemma..
amazon sells the badly reviewed one (of course) and the one with lovely reviews, i can only find used. the cost of them used is even higher at 170.00 minimum. 
Am i a snob if i say i dont want a used one..? 
Ugh these tedious descisions... 

they also have highly reviewed bosch at amazon, nothing on craigslist to speak of, but there is one more possibility.....the pawn shop eh? I'll have to sleep on this one. nighty night peeps


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## leiona

btw ironlight..its a no go on the self portrait..we are definetly beating a dead horse here...maybe the chatroom gods hate me who knows?


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> btw ironlight..its a no go on the self portrait..we are definetly beating a dead horse here...maybe the chatroom gods hate me who knows?


Sometimes you just can't win. These guys are pretty good at getting this stuff posted. Maybe ask a mod for help?


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> well guys ..this just in: I went to order the pc sander but first decided to read the reviews...apparently there is a pc7336sander and a pc 7346sander. the pc7336 had rave reviews and the 7346 had terrible reviews, so heres my new dilemma..
> amazon sells the badly reviewed one (of course) and the one with lovely reviews, i can only find used. the cost of them used is even higher at 170.00 minimum.
> Am i a snob if i say i dont want a used one..?
> Ugh these tedious descisions...
> 
> they also have highly reviewed bosch at amazon, nothing on craigslist to speak of, but there is one more possibility.....the pawn shop eh? I'll have to sleep on this one. nighty night peeps


Good morning leiona...I just checked the model number on my Porter cable, and it is 7336. Perhaps that is why it's still going strong. I don't know the difference between the 7336 and the 7346, but maybe you can find out what it is by finding the Porter cable website...just a thought.

The price on the 7336 at the local dealer here in western Canada is about $200, and believe it or else, that hasn't changed in about 20 years.

Ebay perhaps?


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## cocobolo

OK, visited the Porter Cable website, and it seems that they have replaced the 7336 with the 7346.

There are some minor changes in the appearance, but the biggest change I can find is going from a 3.7 amp motor to a 4.5 amp motor. I would think that's a good thing.

I visited a couple of other sites for reviews and didn't run across anything negative, except for one fellow who said he didn't like the vibration. The rest of his review was all good.

In case you aren't aware, all random orbital sanders will have some vibration. Some people it bothers, others not so much. You can buy a special glove to use with these machines if it bothers you, which helps to absorb the vibration.

Maybe because I have used one for so many years I really don't notice it. I think if you have a little experience with this machine, you will soon learn how to use it correctly.

As with any sander, LET THE MACHINE DO THE WORK, that's what it's for. Don't lean on it hard, that never works. Keep the pad flat to the work and keep the sandpaper sharp. As soon as it wears out - toss it.

I would be willing to bet that the guy who didn't like the vibration didn't keep the pad flat on his work. That's guaranteed to make it vibrate.


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## CoconutPete

Is there a harbor freight near you?


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## leiona

...hmmmm ok I'm just nervous to waste my $ you know? the reviews i was more worried about were the ones who said it stopped working and the on off switch broke etc, etc...but vibrations dont scare me.....especially not Good Vibrations lol.. a little orbital humor there

I'm gonna check the pawn shop and if they dont have one i'm just going to buy one from a reputable place where i can return it if something goes south. 

The PC orbital WILL be mine!!

tune in later for pics of this fabulous (lol) desk i'm gonna build tonight


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## leiona

CoconutPete said:


> Is there a harbor freight near you?


there is a harbor freight, lowes, and home depot about 35 miles away. thats probably where i'll go to get the thing plus a jawhorse to be my friend


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## leiona

Ok coco, heres my loose knots..i had to enter them seperately so i could make the pics bigger


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## leiona

goes all the way through


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## leiona

and this is the island...not worried about those knots so much


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## leiona

my lovebirds table will be awesome


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## BigJim

On the sanders, I have both Bosch and Porter-Cable 7336 and the Porter cable will work circles around the Bosch and my Bosch cost more. As mater fact I have Bosch, Porter-Cable, Dewalt, and Makita, Porter-Cable is the winner.


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## leiona

oh no! i went to take the hood cabinet down and the entire hood came down with it...!
i thought the hood and the cabinet were seperate, now i dont know what to do..Im gonna have to call my uncle to come over. He's frail with cancer so i was hoping to avoid that, ugh. i know theres electrical running to the hood but i cant find it. thats what i get for rushing. 
looks like my good luck with this project is running out.

Jim, i will surely get me that porter cable orb. believe me i'm sold


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> ...hmmmm ok I'm just nervous to waste my $ you know? the reviews i was more worried about were the ones who said it stopped working and the on off switch broke etc, etc...but vibrations dont scare me.....especially not Good Vibrations lol.. a little orbital humor there
> 
> I'm gonna check the pawn shop and if they dont have one i'm just going to buy one from a reputable place where i can return it if something goes south.
> 
> The PC orbital WILL be mine!!
> 
> tune in later for pics of this fabulous (lol) desk i'm gonna build tonight


The on/off switch. Yes, I have had the odd problem with that. It isn't that the switch breaks, what happens is that it gets sawdust inside it and loses proper contact.

I don't understand why they made the switch the way it is made, but where the switch sits on the machine isn't exactly where the switch itself sits. The switch that you move is attached to a sort of pushrod, and that in turn leads to the switch itself. 

I think mine probably ran for maybe 5 to 6 years before it started to get fussy. So I pulled the cover off the back of the machine (1 screw), saw how it worked and cleaned the switch out. I might have done that as many as 3 or possibly 4 times in all the years I have owned the machine. Annoying...yes, but not really any big deal. Why they haven't done a simple re-design is beyond me.

For years I used my machine in a boat yard where we would sometimes be sanding 5 or 6 hours a day, day after day, week after week. This thing has seen a LOT of sawdust.

You will probably need to be replacing the brushes before the switch ever gets that much sawdust inside, and you will need to pull the cover off the back to do that. Then you will see what I mean.


----------



## cocobolo

jiju1943 said:


> On the sanders, I have both Bosch and Porter-Cable 7336 and the Porter cable will work circles around the Bosch and my Bosch cost more. As mater fact I have Bosch, Porter-Cable, Dewalt, and Makita, Porter-Cable is the winner.


Sounds something like my lineup Jim, except I never buy Makita.


----------



## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Ok coco, heres my loose knots..i had to enter them seperately so i could make the pics bigger


All right...now what you have shown in this photo isn't a loose knot. It's more what we would call an inclusion.

A loose knot is literally a section of a branch that was growing in the tree (that's what causes knots) which is - well - loose. You can physically move a loose knot.

Now it looks to me as though you have some bark with that inclusion, and to be perfectly honest, I don't know how that will fare over the years. That may well be a candidate for being filled with epoxy, as you can encase the entire thing that way.

I am sending you my email by pm. 

I am hesitant to suggest you use epoxy until I can see a bigger picture.


----------



## Ironlight

Don't despair about the hood. Under cabinet hoods like that are always attached to the cabinet, not the wall. There should be a wire coming out of the wall and going into the back of the hood somewhere, perhaps with either a plate over where it goes in or a metal collar with two screws. I would do the following:

1) Turn the fan on, even if it's off the wall. You just want it running on low.
2) Turn off breakers at your panel one by one until the fan goes off. That's the one that controls the fan. Leave it off.
3) Disconnect the electrical wire from the vent assembly. Put wire nuts on the wire ends or if you don't have them, electrical tape.
4) Leave the breaker off during your renovation unless you discover that something important that you need was also on that circuit.
5) Disconnect the vent from any ducting that it may be attached to if it is vented to the outside.

You may want to actually keep that hood for the time being if it works OK. Hoods are expensive. You can always replace it later as they are pretty much a standard size.


----------



## leiona

thank you for that Ironlight, my uncle would not be able to make it so i was actually panicing.
to be honest, electrical scares me to death because getting shocked is the worst feeling, but as long as i cant get shocked with the breaker off, i can do it. i will be using electrical tape and i will tape it up good , but i wont be able to leave the breaker off as this house has multiple rooms on each breaker, a problem we deal with constantly, actually, as they tend to get overloaded very easily.
Do you think it would be ok just to leave the wires taped but loose there until i get another hood?

BTW future hubby is buying me a new hood  thank goodness


----------



## leiona

check out the stuff this guy does with wood...


----------



## Ironlight

If you're going to be working around the exposed wires for any length of time, get some wire nuts for them from the hardware store and tape them on with electrical tape. In a pinch you can put a few layers of tape on the exposed copper.

And with the breaker off, you cannot get shocked. There is no power running to the circuit.

Being scared of electrical is healthy thing. It's always good to be scared, and respectful, of things that can kill you. That said, a few few "best practices" of working around electricity will eliminate serious risk. First and foremost of those, for non-professionals, is making sure the breaker is off when you're working on a circuit. I always turn the breaker off but then I also test the wires with a circuit tester. That is because once the light bulb of the fixture I was working on blew at the very moment I was throwing breakers, leading me to believe i had the right breaker. I did not. A shocking discovery.


----------



## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> If you're going to be working around the exposed wires for any length of time, get some wire nuts for them from the hardware store and tape them on with electrical tape. In a pinch you can put a few layers of tape on the exposed copper.
> 
> And with the breaker off, you cannot get shocked. There is no power running to the circuit.
> 
> Being scared of electrical is healthy thing. It's always good to be scared, and respectful, of things that can kill you. That said, a few few "best practices" of working around electricity will eliminate serious risk. First and foremost of those, for non-professionals, is making sure the breaker is off when you're working on a circuit. I always turn the breaker off but then I also test the wires with a circuit tester. That is because once the light bulb of the fixture I was working on blew at the very moment I was throwing breakers, leading me to believe i had the right breaker. I did not. A shocking discovery.


Excellent advice!


----------



## leiona

Miracle of all miracles, my mom showed up here with a handyman who does odd jobs, her buddy!!!!!!
He got the hood vent down for me lickety split and i now have someone to help me with the several other electrical things i need to do..move plugs, add a kitchen celing light and a can light above the counter, and sink that awful stove plug into the wall. as it is the stove plug and the receptacle are dangling in the breeze. i will document it all for newbies like me and for the amusement of all the pros 

BTW...this may seem like a dumb question but remember...i've done none of this stuff before...why are my sawhorses diffrent heights?


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## leiona

Oh and get this...handyman's gonna raise the back door for me so i can lay luann over the existing vinyl and set my terra cotta tiles on that WHEW! now lets hope it dosent cost me too much to have him.....don't worry , I told him all about my budget.:wink:


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Miracle of all miracles, my mom showed up here with a handyman who does odd jobs, her buddy!!!!!!
> He got the hood vent down for me lickety split and i now have someone to help me with the several other electrical things i need to do..move plugs, add a kitchen ceiling light and a can light above the counter, and sink that awful stove plug into the wall. as it is the stove plug and the receptacle are dangling in the breeze. i will document it all for newbies like me and for the amusement of all the pros
> 
> BTW...this may seem like a dumb question but remember...I've done none of this stuff before...why are my sawhorses different heights?


Do those sawhorses have some different height mounting holes where the top attaches maybe?

They look to be the same type, can't think of any good reason they are different...unless someone cut the legs shorter on one.


----------



## leiona

I thought.. jeez, there must be a technical reason for this craziness...
Guess not, eh? so i fixed it and i set up a helper to keep the wood from sliding on me when i cut..
Turns out i'm not so good at sawing with the circular. Its bad enough the noise sets my nerves on edge when i use it..but it kicks back on me when im at the end of my cuts..scares the crap out of me. 
The blade is new, what am i doing wrong? ..Oh well, a glass of wine (for the nerves) and this desk project will continue...at least i got all the cuts made, and spared all of my fingers!:clap:


----------



## cocobolo

leiona said:


> I thought.. jeez, there must be a technical reason for this craziness...
> Guess not, eh? so i fixed it and i set up a helper to keep the wood from sliding on me when i cut..
> Turns out i'm not so good at sawing with the circular. Its bad enough the noise sets my nerves on edge when i use it..but it kicks back on me when im at the end of my cuts..scares the crap out of me.
> The blade is new, what am i doing wrong? ..Oh well, a glass of wine (for the nerves) and this desk project will continue...at least i got all the cuts made, and spared all of my fingers!:clap:


You are pushing into the cut with the saw, but both ends of the wood you are trying to cut are somehow supported. As you exit the cut, the wood binds against the blade giving you that kickback...which can be very dangerous.

You need to have the end that you are cutting off either unsupported so it can simply fall away, or just nearly supported so it can fall away but not necessarily break off before you finish the cut.

Alternatively, you can clamp the wood to your sawhorse, hang the end to be cut off past the other horse, and as you exit the cut pull the cut off piece gently away from and slightly ahead of the cut. What you are trying to do is to open the cut as you finish it.

What you are doing now is closing the cut and it WILL bite you. Practice on some scrap wood until you get the hang of it.


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## leiona

hey coco i think we just figured out why the sawhorses are diffrent heights there....


----------



## leiona

Ok heeeeeres the desk project..


----------



## leiona

and the almost finished product..I still have to figure out how i want the actual desk to be shaped but it goes on the right. i countersunk all the screws. I'm gonna use a handy dandy recipe for wood plugs I heard on the DIY channel the other day:

1.) take some sawdust in your palm
2.) squirt some wood glue into the sawdust
3.) mix to a doughy consistensy
4.) fill the holes with it

I did not, however follow the cardinal rule of carpentry; 
MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE.

I know my problem in this picture is one of... measure at least once, build once.
Can anybody see why I should have measured everything before building?


----------



## leiona

How about now? Jeesh, i'm retarded.


----------



## cocobolo

leiona said:


> and the almost finished product..I still have to figure out how i want the actual desk to be shaped but it goes on the right. i countersunk all the screws. I'm gonna use a handy dandy recipe for wood plugs I heard on the DIY channel the other day:
> 
> 1.) take some sawdust in your palm
> 2.) squirt some wood glue into the sawdust
> 3.) mix to a doughy consistensy
> 4.) fill the holes with it
> 
> I did not, however follow the cardinal rule of carpentry;
> MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE.
> 
> I know my problem in this picture is one of... measure at least once, build once.
> Can anybody see why I should have measured everything before building?


It looks cute with that leg hanging in the air.

Put a level on top to see if one side is higher than the other, and then ....very carefully...trim a tiny bit off the offending side (or sides, as the case may be) until it's right.

Alternatively, glue a shim under the short piece. 

It's only a mistake if you can't fix it.


----------



## leiona

Thank you Keith for pointing the middle leg out..I hadn't noticed that..:furious:
grrr..maybe its just a shadow , i'm gonna go check..........

Looks like a case of the AWFUL SAWER SYNDROME...the backs of my cute legs touch the ground nicely. Maybe when i get my sander Ill sand the backs of the legs down so theyre flush. Who knows? Im thinking of making it a corner unit because i think the desk is too small, but then again a small surface holds less JUNK!!


----------



## Ironlight

Bah, you don't need more than one outlet anyway. Just plug a power strip into it!

On another note, in terms of construction technique for things like this, metal "L" brackets are a little bit deceptive. They are not going to give your piece much of any lateral stability at all. Put something heavy on that top shelf, and should the whole piece get a hard knock from one side or the other it could collapse, the metal brackets bending without much effort.

There are complicated woodworking things you could do to give it more rigidity...but the easiest approach would be to give one section of it a panel back. You nail/screw it around the perimeter and that provides lateral rigidity. If you don't want to go that far you could do something similar by putting corner triangles on the top back corners.

If what I'm saying does not make any sense let me know and I'll see if I can describe it better.


----------



## leiona

i put brackets on the TV shelf but for all the rest i screwed the wood together. its pretty solid..dosent wiggle at all.
the desk top area should tighten things up even more when i get it on..tomorrow


----------



## Two Knots

leiona said:


> and the almost finished product..I still have to figure out how i want the actual desk to be shaped but it goes on the right. i countersunk all the screws. I'm gonna use a handy dandy recipe for wood plugs I heard on the DIY channel the other day:
> 
> 1.) take some sawdust in your palm
> 2.) squirt some wood glue into the sawdust
> 3.) mix to a doughy consistensy
> 4.) fill the holes with it
> 
> I did not, however follow the cardinal rule of carpentry;
> MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE.
> 
> I know my problem in this picture is one of... measure at least once, build once.
> Can anybody see why I should have measured everything before building?


I'm following your thread with interest, you're doing great alrighty, 
but confused about the desk?
There is going to be a TV under the desk?


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## leiona

twoknots....LOL 

all will be revealed...i will finish it tonight!

meanwhile check out this mess..


----------



## leiona

Keith this is for you buddy, now if i could just cut 2x12's with it.....$211.00 bought it for the kitchen project.


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## leiona

Oh Ironlight I should have mentioned that i will likely put a panel on the right side where the desk will be so "things" dont fall off out of the hole, ... that should help with the rigidity, plus it will provide me a place to glue the corkboard to...or maybe ill paint the panel with chalkboard paint or even magnetic paint so he can hang or post things there...limitless possibilities eh?


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## Two Knots

You go girl, I guess it take out weekend!

I had an idea for your desk - tv area, such as
putting the tv up in a cabinet over the desk.
but I'll wait until you're finished. 
Lord knows, I've added on and changed
things in my kitchen as I went along.


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## leiona

The problem here, and the reason i kept the TV low, is because the bed is very low (post #9) and he would have to crank his neck up to watch it, also i have cats that knock things over all the time...dont want to risk the TV. 
so with three roughneck boys, three pain in the a** cats...better keeping things at a level where the tv wont break if it falls. The shelf will be for all the video game systems and the cable box.


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## leiona

Future projects will include some cat/dog houses similar to these. After the kitchen!


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## leiona

You guys ever feel like ...since everything else went wrong today, using a saw may not be the right choice? 
Well thats how i feel...and a little over whelmed by my saturday to-do list when all i wanna do is VEG OUT! Especially after grooming 5 dogs. Gonna read some of cocobolos thread to get some inspiration and motivation. after that its...

clean up kitchen

cover gaping hood vent hole
get wood for the woodburner to last the next 24 hours 
finish desk
clean up basement..thats where i make my cuts
feed all these animals
and last but not least...do some work on one of these unfinished paintings

let's see its 5 oclock now....


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## Two Knots

oh, I thought the tv was for the kitchen.


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## leiona

no tv is my sons.. i made him a bed for x-mas and now the desk to match for his b-day. and just to avoid any confusion , the desk will look like this..


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## leiona

so tomorrow i will start on my lower cabinets. I like to call my first victim "The Black Hole" due to the fact that its so deep everything gets lost in there. I plan to block out the back corner to make it shaped like half a hexagon, line the inside with beadboard, then add two rows of shelves. i cleaned it out tonight so it would be ready and further remembered why i call it The Black Hole...I've got way more ugly pitchers than one family needs. Chloe thinks so too...

gotta get firewood still, then off to lala land. too tired to do the desk.


----------



## leiona

the cabinets..


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## leiona

Hopefully I havent bored everyone to tears with my lagging kitchen project, but believe it or not, my local builders wholesale store (1 mile away) is closed on weekends...guess when I need things...weekends!

i did manage to get all the osb cut to reshape "the black hole" but i cant put it all together till the handyman comes tomorrow to move my plugs and switches...then I can get the cabinets built finally. wood plank countertops will come very shhortly after.

Meanwhile...could somebody tell me what type of plywood this is? Its very smooth and dense, and i love it so much.


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## leiona

heres the grain...


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## leiona

Heres the finished product...the sanding and staining will come this spring.


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Hopefully I havent bored everyone to tears with my lagging kitchen project, but believe it or not, my local builders wholesale store (1 mile away) is closed on weekends...guess when I need things...weekends!
> 
> i did manage to get all the osb cut to reshape "the black hole" but i cant put it all together till the handyman comes tomorrow to move my plugs and switches...then I can get the cabinets built finally. wood plank countertops will come very shhortly after.
> 
> Meanwhile...could somebody tell me what type of plywood this is? Its very smooth and dense, and i love it so much.


You will have to get a clear picture before anyone can ID that.

I see 7 plies (I think anyway) how thick is it? 3/4"?


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## leiona

heres the best i can do with my phone..good camera's MIA..


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## leiona

and the grain.., the wood is 1/2 inch thick


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## cocobolo

OK, I'm at a bit of a loss here, but usually 1/2" plywood with that many plies is likely to be Baltic Birch. But that big knot says otherwise.

There is no doubt it is good quality plywood because of the even plies. Perhaps a cherry...?

Jim, can we get your opinion.


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## leiona

Ive been researching it a little ...what do you think of Birch as a suspect? well the verdicts in..i just read your reply. birch it is, providing Jim agrees. Seems strong, i wonder if its the best plywood to use when i build my cabinet...What would you guys use?


----------



## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Ive been researching it a little ...what do you think of Birch as a suspect? well the verdicts in..i just read your reply. birch it is, providing Jim agrees. Seems strong, i wonder if its the best plywood to use when i build my cabinet...What would you guys use?


Any plywood with that many plies is going to be strong, no doubt about that.

It is almost for sure a hardwood plywood, but I am thrown by that open knot. I take it that must be the back side of the sheet, is it?

One other thing, can you see any voids, sort of like small holes, on the edges of the sheet where you have made cuts? If there are any, they should be very small.


----------



## BigJim

It looks like a utility grade Birch or an import, it is hard to say not being able to see the grain clearly. It is good wood to work with, are you using it for the sides of your cabinets?


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## leiona

no voids, and i know that there were very few knots..not sure if it was the back or front side because both sides were very smooth and ive had the plywood leaning against the wall for two or more years and it is not bowed at all. 
I did read that birch plywoods most imperfect layers are on the outsides, the inner plys are perfect, hence the strength. I guess birch is not known for its beautiful grain...maybe they add interest to the look of it by putting knots and imperfections on the outer layers. Who knows?

Jim- i was thinking about using it for the sides and the floor. i really only have one cabinet to build, the one on the right side of the sink when looking at the picture. i'm trying to make a cabinet to complete the row of lower cabinets so they reach the door. That way i can stretch my counters all the way to the door and gain 3 feet of desperately needed counterspace!


----------



## leiona

I'm going to make my new cabinet look as much like the one beside it as possible. i'm going to make or buy new doors for both. the cabinet to the left of the sink will resemble this...


----------



## leiona

Wow folks let me tell ya...I've probably contacted 20 diffrent lumber suppliers and not one of them carries hard maple planks in 10' lengths!! I'm starting to feel its hopeless  Is there another kind of wood that may be good to use for countertops? oak, walnut, ash and pine are the most redily available around here.


----------



## BigJim

leiona said:


> Wow folks let me tell ya...I've probably contacted 20 diffrent lumber suppliers and not one of them carries hard maple planks in 10' lengths!! I'm starting to feel its hopeless  Is there another kind of wood that may be good to use for countertops? oak, walnut, ash and pine are the most redily available around here.


Birch, Beech, or Maple look close to the same and all are hard. here is a link to some lumber companies in your area.
http://www.thomasnet.com/west-virginia/hardwood-lumber-45262201-1.html


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## fixrite

Have you checked Ikea? You can get butcher block counter tops from them in Maple and some other woods as well. Just a thought. By the way you are doing a tremendous job, keep up the good work.


----------



## leiona

Thank you Jim

Fixrite- i would look for butcher block which is what i origionally wanted, but i loved the slabs of wood so much that i blew 1/3rd of my budget on them :no:
So now i'm stuck making my own counter..but i vaguely remember someone saying that maple has antibacterial qualities and thats what i should use.

....Edit: Believe it or not A 12' length of maple butcher block countertop from lumber liquidators is only 369.00, and an 8 ft lenth is 289.00..together they would be plenty for what i need and onlya little over 600.00...hmmmmm Fixrite you may have something here!
As hard as it has been to find maple planks it may be worth buying them. But i may have to give up the terra cotta floor to do it. Guess it depends if i can find the T/C at a good price.

WOW thank you guys for brainstorming this with me:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## leiona

fourtunately, I came across a great deal on an arsenal of used tools for a great price...unfourtunately I'm getting them because my uncle is too sick to ever use them again. He built his own three story house, deck, two car garage and storage shed from the ground up and all the tools he bought for the jobs are barely used and just sitting there. He's ready to sell me the lot of them and believe me ..theres ALOT of them. My first buy was three porter cable nail guns, all different sizes and these two dewalt sanders at 200.00 for all!

Cocobolo, do you think these sanders will do?


----------



## cocobolo

leiona said:


> Cocobolo, do you think these sanders will do?


So now you have a 1/4 sheet sander and a 5" orbital. Not the same as the Porter Cable 6" by any means. If you have all three, you're all set.


----------



## leiona

believe me i would still love to get the pc 6inch sander in the near future, but for now..ill start with these because the budget is dwindling fast. Especially if I go with the butcherblock countertop...and its looking like i will. I googled pictures of them and they are pretty, not as rustic as i would like but oh well. anythings better than formica from the '60s:wink:


----------



## Ironlight

leiona said:


> Thank you Jim
> 
> Fixrite- i would look for butcher block which is what i origionally wanted, but i loved the slabs of wood so much that i blew 1/3rd of my budget on them :no:
> So now i'm stuck making my own counter..but i vaguely remember someone saying that maple has antibacterial qualities and thats what i should use.
> 
> ....Edit: Believe it or not A 12' length of maple butcher block countertop from lumber liquidators is only 369.00, and an 8 ft lenth is 289.00..together they would be plenty for what i need and onlya little over 600.00...hmmmmm Fixrite you may have something here!
> As hard as it has been to find maple planks it may be worth buying them. But i may have to give up the terra cotta floor to do it. Guess it depends if i can find the T/C at a good price.
> 
> WOW thank you guys for brainstorming this with me:thumbup::thumbup:


Definitely take a look at IKEA for the butcher block counter tops. A birch 8' x 7/8" x 25 5/8' slab is like $170. They also have beech and oak. I believe they are already sealed and finished.

If you're going to build your own cabinets, also consider Ikea for the door hinge and drawer hardware. They make some good stuff.


----------



## BigJim

Leiona, this is just an example but you can do a search for your area and see if there are any semi truck bed suppliers, the semi truck beds are made of butcher block red oak and are fairly good looking. I know Cracker Barrel uses a lot of the truck bed for things in their place. Here is a link
http://www.lewisohn.com/industries/oak-flooring/

If you can find one and decide to order some of the flooring for the counter top be sure to tell them not to stamp their name on the front of the wood, you can not sand it out. It is by far cheaper than a regular butcher block counter top and you can get it any length you want up to 44.5 feet long. If you go with a red oak top there is a filler you can buy to fill the pores with so it will be easier to finish.

Both sanders you got are finish sanders but with the larger one on the right you can go with a coarser sand paper and work your way up from there. To do some pretty good cutting start off with 60 grit and go on up from there. The 60 will cut pretty good with that sander. You may have to empty the bag quite often though. As Coco said, always keep the sander flat, don't tilt to try to get a spot off, it will dig to much and be hard to correct and will show like crazy.

If the wood you want to sand is just needing sanded and not cut hard, you want to start off with a much finer grit and go up from there.


----------



## fixrite

I found the blum motion soft close drawer slides ( 100 lb rating) for less at Lee Valley than at the local big box store.


----------



## leiona

After much headache and calling around, I finally got my countertops!! unfinished maple butcherblock, a 12 foot length and a 8 foot length for 661.00 total from Lumber Liquidators...Whew glad to be done with that. 
Jim i tried your link and called them, they put me on hold and never came back...finally i decided to just go with the obvious flow and order from Lumber Liquidators, the cheapest by far. And believe it or not, I did call 4 more local sawmills here in my area..not one carried maple planks. So strange seeing as how i am totally surrounded by maple trees here! in fact I've cut some huge ones down in my yard just this year. If only I had coco's alaskan sawmill lol 
BTW thank you for the advice with the sanders, i needed that.


----------



## BigJim

leiona said:


> After much headache and calling around, I finally got my countertops!! unfinished maple butcherblock, a 12 foot length and a 8 foot length for 661.00 total from Lumber Liquidators...Whew glad to be done with that.
> Jim i tried your link and called them, they put me on hold and never came back...finally i decided to just go with the obvious flow and order from Lumber Liquidators, the cheapest by far. And believe it or not, I did call 4 more local sawmills here in my area..not one carried maple planks. So strange seeing as how i am totally surrounded by maple trees here! in fact I've cut some huge ones down in my yard just this year. If only I had coco's alaskan sawmill lol
> BTW thank you for the advice with the sanders, i needed that.


I'm sorry the people kept you on hold and didn't come back, they must have all the business they want.

The counter top you have has been sanded on a drum sander so you will not need to sand with a course grit. When sanding I would start with 100-120 grit and go finer. Your top shouldn't need much sanding, the ROS should work just fine on it.


----------



## leiona

The countertops will be here in 12 days...meanwhile i must build the cabinet, build the base for my island and I'm STILL waiting for my handyman electrician to show up and move plugs...that's why I haven't gotten anything done...besides the fact that I've been snowed in for 5 days with no materials lol..but he's supposed to be here tomorrow then its on with it, finally!


----------



## leiona

Electrician came today, got half the electric done!!! I bought three sheets of 3/4 inch birch plywood to make my cabinets..and boy that stuff is not cheap!

I plan on making my cabinet doors with an inlay of colored or stained glass, or possibly wavy glass if i can find it. if thats not possible i may inlay a mirror or stainless steel sheeting.i cant wait to get them started. :thumbup:

When the countertop shows up i will have to miter the corner and i was wondering if anyone knows with which saw i would do that...i'm pretty sure its a jigsaw for the sinkhole, though, maybe that would work for the miter too?


----------



## BigJim

Did you order your counter top from a top shop or cabinet shop? If you did maybe they can cut your top for you. The sink hole shouldn't be too much of a problem but cutting a 45° on a top is a challenge even for an experienced cabinet without the proper machine. It has to be cut perfect so it won't have any gaps in the miter and with regular hand tools it is tough. Also you will need a router to cut in the fasteners for the miter. I would strongly advise getting a shop to cut the mortise for you.


----------



## fixrite

before you go off trying to miter your ends, you will need to know if your corner is square so you don't cut the wrong miter for your countertops. The jigsaw with the right blade will be fine for cutting out your sink, just don't be in a rush, and get someone to support the cutout piece near the end of the cut.


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## fixrite

when it comes time to cut your mitres, if you can't find a local company with a radial arm saw, then you will need to clamp a board at the correct angle to guide your circular saw for your mitres.


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## BigJim

fixrite said:


> before you go off trying to miter your ends, you will need to know if your corner is square so you don't cut the wrong miter for your countertops. The jigsaw with the right blade will be fine for cutting out your sink, just don't be in a rush, and get someone to support the cutout piece near the end of the cut.


The way I do my sink cut out is leave about a 2 inches uncut at each end of the sink hole. Take two scraps of wood long enough to go all the way across the sink hole and overlap onto the top. Screw the two scraps of wood into the cutout, this will keep the cutout from dropping on through. 

Before marking out for the cutout, measure the flange on the underside of the sink, (the part that holds the fasteners to hold the sink in) Mark the hole out just big enough for the flange to fit into the cutout. Be sure to round the corners of the cutout or you will have holes at each corner of the sink. 

To be sure you have the hole marked out correctly do this, mark the hole as you are going to cut out, then lay the sink upside down on the marked out area, if you can see any marks with the sink laying on top of the marks then you have it marked out wrong and if cut like that the cuts will come on the outside of the sink and your top will be ruined and the only thing you can do then is buy a larger sink. I hope I am explaining this where you can understand, I am not good at explaining.


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## Ironlight

jiju1943 said:


> Did you order your counter top from a top shop or cabinet shop? If you did maybe they can cut your top for you. The sink hole shouldn't be too much of a problem but cutting a 45° on a top is a challenge even for an experienced cabinet without the proper machine. It has to be cut perfect so it won't have any gaps in the miter and with regular hand tools it is tough. Also you will need a router to cut in the fasteners for the miter. I would strongly advise getting a shop to cut the mortise for you.


I totally agree.

No matter what you do, do NOT try cutting the mitre with a jigsaw. Jigsaws are for cutting curves. They are absolutely the wrong tool for trying to cut a straight line.

If you can't get someone to do it you're going to want to cut the miters with a circular saw and a fence that you make for it to run along to ensure that the cut is dead straight. Incidentally, this is how you're going to want to cut up your cabinet plywood as well. Take a look at what Snav did and the jigs that she created for cutting her wood. That's exactly what you want to do. Make sure you have a good quality plywood blade for cutting as well. 

As far as the angle of the miters goes, you can pretty much guarantee that your corner is not 90 degrees dead on, and that your walls are flat along their face that abuts where the countertop will run. Do what you can to check it, and when you cut your miters err on the side of having too big an angle and not too small. You can always take more wood off but you can't put more on.


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## leiona

Wow guys ..thank you for the advice on mitering my corner! I had no idea it needed to be so precise! unfortunately the seller of the countertop does not make any cuts. I will ask my local builders wholesale and other hardware stores around here if anyone has a radial arm saw. I'm thinkin they must. I'm pretty sure I can take on that sinkhole, thanks Jim!

....but if noone should happen to be able to cut my corner for a decent price, what do you think of butting them up squarely like in this pic i found?


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## fixrite

If I was going to do it that way I would make sure the edge is cut square and then I would use biscuits at the very least to hold it. You can get cleats that are specifically made for connecting countertops, but they need to be cut specifically for the connectors to be used. I am not sure if you have the tools needed to do that.


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## BigJim

You would have way less problems running your top like that. If the corner isn't a perfect 90° it will be easier to correct like that also. I don't remember, are you installing a back splash? If so it could hide some of the gaps that almost surely will arise between the walls and the back of the top.

Just to let you know, Coco hasn't abandoned you, there are some issues he needs to attend to of great importance.


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## leiona

hmmm, well I guess i'm gonna have to figure it out somehow, anyways 'cause they are a-comin...but not for more than a week so that will give me some time. Believe me when I tell ya..none of the things i do are gonna look perfect, but when its all built and i get to make it look artsy and rustic...my mistakes will surely blend right in :yes:

I'm currently looking for pics of cabinet doors so I know which inlay i like...I'm leaning toward textured stainless, or some type of metal. I'm thinkin glass on lower cabinet doors isn't such a brilliant idea after all.


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## leiona

OMG JIm ..I hope he's ok jeez...I don't even want to think about anything happening to him. He's a very inspiring person.


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## fixrite

Not sure just what you meant by inlays for your doors, but....you could use something like this over a plywood panelled door. Since you mentioned rustic, well this looks countryish, but there are many different kinds.
http://www.china-sinks.com/copper-tiles/images/copper-murals.jpg


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## fixrite

you will see tons of different kinds if you google copper ceiling tiles. Just a thought.


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## leiona

I think the color of that is awesome, but as for the inlay, it will be something like this..
if you look closely tou will see that they tacked it on with some sort of decorative nail too.


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## fixrite

are you meaning the drawer and door fronts?


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## leiona

fixrite said:


> are you meaning the drawer and door fronts?


 yeah..i like the look and the color will be nice so the cabinets wont be so plain when i'm done


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## fixrite

ok then. You are doing an overlay rather than an inlay. Inlays are usually set into another wood. Like the inlays you see on decorative tables. By the sounds of it you will be overlaying your selected material,lets say it is the decorative copper onto a layer of plywood to give it the look you want. In the picture you put up the drawers and doors are a raised panel with copper or ? overtop of it. I am sure it will look good what ever you choose to use. There are a lot of different kinds out there. A friend did a large hutch and used old style pie pantry stamps. They have holes in them to allow the pies to cool with out worry of mice and such(it's an old school thing) not suggesting you have mice....lol Lots of options to choose from. I am looking forward to seeing your finished product I am sure it will be great.


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## BigJim

fixrite said:


> Not sure just what you meant by inlays for your doors, but....you could use something like this over a plywood panelled door. Since you mentioned rustic, well this looks countryish, but there are many different kinds.
> http://www.china-sinks.com/copper-tiles/images/copper-murals.jpg


Wow, that is beautiful.


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## CoconutPete

I did my corner seam like the picture you showed. At first I was going to do a 45degree cut, but it would have been a nightmare.

My buddy in Denmark has a HUGE kitchen with no upper cabinets at all and a TON of butcherblock tops and he did all his seams like that which is what sold me.


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## leiona

Well for those of you who are waiting for me to finally get something done, I took out a wall even though ive been bombarded by the rhinovirus for three days now...and i only smashed my hand twice!!:furious:


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## leiona

After some LENGTHY thought on how in the world I was gonna fit an island into my teeny tiny kitchen, i finally abandoned the idea for a new one. Now i will have to use my slabs of wood for other things. I'm thinking one for an outdoor table and one for the dining room table. sad though i really wanted to make an island out of them. my electric should be done tomorrow and then i can get the cabinets built and ready for the countertops.
Heres the new kitchen layout.


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## fixrite

Leiona, what about using some of that wood for your pass through. If you have some live edge that would look great having live edge on both sides, just a thought. You could also use that same kind of wood for your shelving beside your stove. Anyways it all looks great and I am looking forward to seeing more pics as you progress. Not to sound sexist, but I think it is great to see a woman taking on a job like this.


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## leiona

Thank you very much Fixrite, I couldn't agree with you more. I think all women, and men, should take on all the challenges they can in life. People should not let gender based prejudices deter them from fufilling their dreams. My desire has always been to build the house of my dreams, and do the work myself. I may not be very good yet but I love building things. Doing this kitchen is just practice, and everyones helpful advice will just get me there that much faster. :wink:

BTW after sitting in my kitchen for hours last night thinking, i came up with the best uses for my slabs and believe me, i dont regret for one second buying them. i love them. the one that was going to be my island will now be my dining room table and the really pretty one will be an outside table for my deck, where the sun will make its pattern more visible. and I will certainly use a varnish with UV blockers no worries!


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## leiona

one more day and my electricals done...got the cuts measured for the cabinets, and my countertops are in!! Lets get this kitchen remodel thing back on a roll, right?! I studied snavs thread and i think the cabinets are gonna be a breeze, and thank goodness its only one...and shelves to boot, no door no drawer :wink:

I should have known when the handyman told me he would move a few plugs around for me it would turn into an entire kitchen rewire!! but it needed it i guess, and he's charging me next to nothing thank goodness.


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## leiona

ok! kitchen electrical is done, first coat of plaster for all the wall repairs i had to do because of it arrrrrgh...and i got the right cabinet built and ready to face, pony wall in for the counter to rest on, and a new floor under the sink cabinet...which is still leaking to my dismay. i thought we fixed that months ago.
tomorrow is facing the right cabinet, finishing the left side cabinet, and beadboard on the pony wall and lining the inside of the left side cabinet..then i will sand it all and get some paint on. I'm thinking a dark brown or black enamel undercoat with a coat of white on top..then i will scuff the white so some of the brown shows through. i still have to make two cabinet doors but im not sure if i want shaker style or barn door style so i'm waiting to do that.


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## leiona

Hey guys, i was wondering if anyone has ever plastered over border instead of ripping it down..? I think a light coat of plaster over it would be easier and nicer looking than taking it down, especially since someone has painted right up to the edge which means that when the border comes down there will be a paint lip which will have to be sanded anyway. the border is literally BONDED to the wall!

BTW my countertops came..they are beautiful. i'm gonna stain them dark.


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## fixrite

If you are intending to use your countertops for food contact, ensure the stain is safe and won't transfer to your food if you cut or prep it on the countertops. Don't want to hear of you getting sick.


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## Ironlight

Not sure what you mean by border...is this something on the wall? A wallpaper border?

As far as your counter top goes, consider carefully how you're going to finish it. If you stain it you're going to need to seal it and then topcoat it with a very durable material like catalyzed polyurethane. That will be somewhat scratch resistant, but you'll need to be careful to not cut on it at all. It's not food safe either, I'm pretty sure.

If I were you I would leave it unstained and instead give it like 5 coats of mineral oil. That will darken it up, will be food safe, and scratches won't show and can be easily buffed out if they do. You'll need to re-oil it pretty regularly, like ever few months.

All this said I don't really know much about wood countertops in kitchens. I guess it all comes down to how you expect to use them and how durable they need to be.


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## fixrite

Ironlight....You are correct on all areas of the countertop. As a previous restauranteur I can only add that to maintain them you should regularly scrub them with an abrasive scouring pad and dutch cleanser type cleaner. Rinse thoroughly and then apply white vinegar, let dry and you are 100% sanitized. For appearance you can then apply food grade mineral oil. This is the procedure I used for many years and it more than satisfied all the health inspectors, we also NEVER had a bacterial problem. I use this procedure at my own home as I have maple butcher block counter tops myself. I chose maple as it has a natural antibacterial in it as apposed to this new white plastic crap which only provides a place for bacteria to grow.


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## leiona

I want to keep the countertops natural but they're so light..i dont like that. i dont know what to do, so many are stained on the internet ...and the lady who sold me the countertops said she stained hers dark and poly'd them 6 years ago. she still likes them. i dont plan on cutting on them. got cutting blocks for that. Plus i got kids the "kool aid" age and stains WILL happen.

still at a loss as to what to do about this glue residue from the backsplash i ripped off the wall.
BTW the border i speak of is wallpaper border and it is REALLY on there. im gonna plaster over it with joint compound and blend it in, who cares right? its only me i got to impress!!

heres the current progress with temporary countertops..


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## leiona

Ok folks, that is if you are still out there...I know this renno is boring as five but its about to take off again here today.
I read and read a thousand articles on finishing these countertops in a dark stain or finish and the best i can come up with is strongly brewed coffee to stain them. it is food safe and can be mineral oiled or varnished with waterlox. After trying to visualize extremely light colored countertops in my kitchen and the colors i would would pick to coordinate with them, i decided i definetly dont like light color counters, and i just know that in this house, light countertops will look bad really quick. 
the countertops are getting cut to size today and i will begin distressing them and staining them today as well. i cant wait to see what they look like with a coffee stain on them! i may skip the distressing but i think that if i distress them that any dents or marks i make on them in the future will blend better if they are already distressed.

Let me know what you think or if anyone has ever stained anything with coffee. thanks guys!


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## BigJim

You may want to give some stains a try on the backside of the counter tops, once it is stained there is not a lot you can do from that point. Since you are not going to be cutting on the counter tops my advise would be to put a durable finish on them. 

I have a butcher block cutting board that I made a year or so ago, may have been two years ago, but anyway it does not look good now that it has had some use. I finished it with mineral oil and reoiled but it still looks bad. I can't speak for you, I can only speak for me, if those were my tops I would stain them the way I wanted to and finish with a semi gloss Poly. Since you aren't cutting on them there shouldn't be any chips of poly and stain to get in your food.

I do agree that you should go ahead and distress them now, so it won't show when they do get dented. Just a word of advise on distressing, don't make holes in the top when distressing, food, salt flour and stuff will get in them and it is hard to get out. Do distress them before staining as you may have to restain afterwards and there is a chance you would have to resand after distressing. 

I use a chain, old keys on a chain, hammer and anything else I can get hold of. I have even shot a couple of things with a shot gun and a pistol with rat shot. I did a table like that and it turned out good. After I had shot it and beat the stew out of it, I stained it, let it dry and sanded the table back down to raw wood with only the dents and holes stained, it looked pretty good. If you shoot something like that, be sure to use bird shot and stand a long way back, or you will blow it all to pieces.:laughing: Just ask me how I know.:whistling2:The biiiig holes are hard to patch.:yes:

Oh and sand the edges so they look worn in places.


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## leiona

Jim thanx so much for that man, i was floundering here!
One question..with the poly, even though i wont be cutting on them, will dents be obvious say a heavy pot was dropped on them or something, and if it did dent could i just fill the dent with poly in a medicine dropper or something to flatten the dent back out? will the distress marks flatten out with the poly or will the poly stay true to the form? in other words will i have poly'd divots
...and should i poly all of it like the underside and where the edges meet as well? I was nervous about doing an oil finish because i am going to put a drop in sink in the counter so i hate for it to warp or something there.

BTW my uncle said laquer thinner would work on the glue residue on my walls, what do you think of that?

so here the counters are cut and dry fitted..


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## leiona

also, what should i do about this completely unavoidable gap that is here? wood putty or filler..or do you think when i glue and screw them together they'll be ok? maybe i should put the last coat of poly on after they are together and installed, then that will fill in that gap? what do ya think?

like you all said, my walls were not square so we got it as perfect as we could..my uncle helped me


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## JBosarge

I am new to the group and up until now I have just spent my time learning from all the post. Never commented or asked a question. But saw pic of counters and had to post a comment. I must say I absolutely love those counters! Beautiful! Can't wait to see them once they are finished. Beautiful work!


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## leiona

fixrite, could you possibly put a pic of your counter up so i can see how dark it got for you?


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## Ironlight

DEFINITELY experiment with the staining on the undersides. You never really know how something is going to turn out until you've tried it and as mentioned stain is not something you can "undo".

The one issue that I imagine with coffee is penetration. Commercial stain is engineered, from the grinding of the particulate to the formulation of the spirits, to penetrate into wood pores. I have no idea how coffee is going to behave in that regard.

If you're going to seal it with poly then I don't think it really matters what you use for the stain, as far as the counters being food safe is concerned. the Poly will seal it. For that reason you might want to visit your hardware store and look at a stain chart and buy a sample of a color that looks like what you are after and try it next to the coffee and see how both perform.

I would definitely stain and finish these before you install them. You'll get much better fit and finish. The poly will flow and follow the form of the divits. You don't want the poly to build up in them...it's a coating not a filler and it could fail if it's too thick in areas.

Regarding the adhesive, you really need to scrape it off, then skim the wallboard. In fact that is going to be less work than trying to skim over the adhesive and get an acceptable surface. Are you going to install a backsplash? If so then you don't want to be putting it up on top of compound on top of adhesive on top of drywall. Compound is not designed to adhere to old adhesive and you'll risk failure down the road.

I dunno what I'd do about that gap. I'd probably run a bead of silicone caulk between the two pieces before installation, fasten them in place, then clean up the joint. You want it to be flexible and smooth with the surface and to keep dirt out. Another option is epoxy since you can color it and it will make a hard joint. Looking at it again, I'd probably sand and subtly shape the butt end of one piece to get a tight fit all along the seam. That's your best approach.


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## leiona

JBosarge said:


> I am new to the group and up until now I have just spent my time learning from all the post. Never commented or asked a question. But saw pic of counters and had to post a comment. I must say I absolutely love those counters! Beautiful! Can't wait to see them once they are finished. Beautiful work!


thank you so much! i love them too. from lumber liquidators. Dont worry I will post pics every step of the way here.


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## leiona

Ironlight thanks for the info there. While i am torn between the mineral oil finish and the poly, the only reason i was gonna use coffee to stain was so i could use the mineral oil, but still darken them up first. I figured the coffee stain would be easy to do over and over if i should happen to need to sand them down, or sand a kool-aid stain out .
I think if i poly I will go with a commercial stain so i can get exactly what i want color-wise.
I dont want to cut on the counters, and food safety is a concern, but not my main one lol, but i would like to have the option of sanding and refinishing them if i want later you know? thats why I'm torn between poly and mineral oil.


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## leiona

ok heres the first test...coffee stain pic 1 with coffee sitting on it, pic 2 with it wiped off after 15 min..


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## Ironlight

Ah OK I overlooked the part about still sealing with mineral oil. In that case I guess coffee makes sense.

If you want it darker, try grinding the coffee to dust and making it strong. The finer you grind it, the more of it will penetrate I'm going to wager. Looks like you're on the right track if you can get it darker.


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## BigJim

Leiona, Ironlight is right on. You can not build up the dents with poly as the surface will dry and seal it off and the poly below the surface will stay uncured and wet. Those are great looking tops. After seeing a picture of them I would leave them undented, but that is just me. 

If you were to drop a heavy pot on them there is a very good chance that it would dent the top, but Maple is hard as the dickens, chances are the poly would be cracked if a hard blow from the edge of a sharp cornered pan or pot hit it. You will for sure want to make some wooden trivets to set hot pots on, that would really mess the top up.

The gap, if I were doing it I would scribe the butt end and sand it to fit the other top. With the sanders you have would be a pretty time consuming deal. I think Ironlight has the better idea here. 

One thought with sealing, when you cut the sink cutout be sure to seal the edges and under the edges, you sure don't want water to get to the top. You want to seal the edges of the rim of the sink also, that will help keep water from going under the sink where it could ruin the top after a while and you don't want mold either. Another place I would seal under the top would be above the dishwasher, sometimes steam can escape and that is not good on wood.

I would stay away from using lacquer thinner on that glue, it will really get to you inside a home and make the biggest mess you ever saw. It will only soften the glue a little at a time and that is not what you want. There is really only two ways I know of to take care of the glue, scrape it off, which will usually mess the sheet rock up and the second would be to cut the sheet rock, pull it off and replace it. 

It really isn't that hard to do, then you wouldn't have to worry about it. It you plan to install ceramic, glass tiles or such you could replace the sheet rock with cement board or hardie backer or some other backer. What ever you do, once the tops have dried and installed cover them with heavy card board and paper so they don't get damaged. If you are going to install a back splash that has to do with any liquid at all, be sure to us plastic to cover the top.


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## CoconutPete

Is that drywall? I'd be seriously tempted to go and pick up one 8x4 sheet of moisture resistant drywall and just replace the sections w/ glue on them. It seems like it would save you labor in the long run. Drywall would cost you $13 for the sheet and maybe $8 for a box o' screws.

As far as that seam goes - are the cuts straight? My walls are not straight either - i ended up having to "shape" the back of 2 of my butcher blocks (I have 3 pieces also) in order to get close enough to the wall (backsplash will hide the rest) but I had a gap also until I got 3 of those countertop seam bolts. Once I had 3 of those badboys installed and cranked them down tight there was no more gap. Did I Mention my walls are NOT straight haha.


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## fixrite

leiona said:


> fixrite, could you possibly put a pic of your counter up so i can see how dark it got for you?


Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I have been busy building my shop, a complete tear down and buildup. But here is a couple of pics for you,hope it helps.


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## BigJim

fixrite said:


> Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I have been busy building my shop, a complete tear down and buildup. But here is a couple of pics for you,hope it helps.


Those are some good looking tops, what did you seal yours with?


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## fixrite

I sanded them and use only food grade mineral oil on them periodically. I scrub them with an abrasive metal scouring pad and ajax, rinse apply vinegar let dry. After all is said and done I apply a coat of mineral oil, allow it to absorb, wipe off excess and they look like new.


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## leiona

*fixrite*..were your butcher blocks as light as mine before the mineral oil? i like the color of yours.
*coconut Pete..*I wish it were that easy, but for me that would be difficult for two reasons, one is that its not just drywall ..its drywall with a thick layer of plaster over top of it ..no idea how to match that up, and two..I burnt out two blades off my jigsaw just cuttin the doorway out! Its just not worth it. BTW can i get a recipe for coconutpete's paella?? 
I think im going to chip away all the glue with one of those tools that remove tile..not sure what they are called right now but after i do that i will just skimcoat the butchered wall to make it match. That area will get a backsplash later anyway. 
I solved my wallpaper border problem by taping the bottom edge and skimcoating over it, then i brushed it to match the rest of the wall (post # 25 shows the border before). 
I may stain my butcherblocks with tea, heres a pic..coffee on left, tea on right, and unfinished far right..


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## leiona

..oh and I've got mineral oil coming, i ordered it last night. I think I will try the mineral oil treatment first and if it dosen't work for me I'll sand it , stain it , and poly it later.
BTW the tool i hope to use for removing the wall glue is a multi max blade attached to a dremel i think ..its like a grinder but set up so you can hold the blade flat and parallel to the wall


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## fixrite

yes they were as light as yours. You can get the mineral oil from the pharmacy so you don't have to pay so much for it. Just in case you didn't know.


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## fixrite

BTW, if you do your tops like I have done mine, you will be happy that I am sure of. If you do by chance have someone spill wine or grape juice on it, then just clean them as I mentioned previously.


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## leiona

thanx fixrite, i ordered a gallon of food grade mineral oil from amazon for $17.00, is that a good price? ...I also ordered a small bottle of block conditioner with beeswax in it for 8 dollars. So do you think i should bother with the tea stain? Do you think it will get twice as dark after the oil is on it if i stain with tea first?


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## CoconutPete

Ouch - that sucks about the walls. I tore down most of my plaster walls, but the one I had to repair where there had been glue was NO fun.

I think it's so funny that you can treat these things with stuff you buy at the grocery store, I walked past the mineral oil the other day and had to explain to my wife why I chuckled.

Sorry - no recipe for CoconutPete's Paella. I'd explain why but it's easier for me to just recommend that you rent a movie called "club dread" if you ever have an hour and a half available and feel like watching Bill Paxton's greatest movie ever haha.


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## leiona

Ha ha gotcha Pete  maybe i will watch club dread. Bill Paxton rocks lol!

I recieved my butcher block conditioner today and swiped it on my test piece...darkened it quite a bit. i tested it on the tea and coffe stained side, then on the unfinished side. there was really not much diffrence after the conditioner was applied, although the coffee seems to keep the block from turning too orange. it keeps it a nice brown color. pics later after the four coats of conditioner they reccommend are on. we will see how dark they really get. then i will stain the unfinished side of my test piece as dark as i can with coffee to see if i can get the results i really want.


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## Ironlight

Just a thought...try staining it with instant coffee. And if you can get it, try Starbucks instant coffee, "VIA".

The reason? Starbucks instant coffee is just regular coffee beans that have been basically pulverized to so fine a powder that it simply dissolves in hot water. I'm convinced that the finer the grind of coffee, the more saturated your coffee stain is going to be and closer to what it is I think you're looking for.


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## leiona

i will look around for it, if i can find it i will use it for sure. to be clear, i'm looking for a dark walnut  i dunno if i can get it with coffee but we will see!


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## leiona

I obliterated half of the glue wall with a hammer and chisel. only took me three hours to do this section


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## shumakerscott

Why don't you use one of these?
http://www.harborfreight.com/interests/contractor/3-in-1-1-inch-sds-rotary-hammer-97743.html


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## Ironlight

leiona said:


> I obliterated half of the glue wall with a hammer and chisel. only took me three hours to do this section


Sometimes the right thing to do is not a lot of fun. 

When it comes to backsplashes, the most important contributor to a good result is having flat surfaces that meet up square and true in the corners. This is particularly true if you're using smaller tiles, the grid of which will accentuate any deviation in surface flatness. 

I can't wait to see your kitchen when you're done. You're making wonderful progress!


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## leiona

shumakerscott said:


> Why don't you use one of these?
> http://www.harborfreight.com/interests/contractor/3-in-1-1-inch-sds-rotary-hammer-97743.html


I'm brokety broke Scott my man...broker than a joke.
the chisel was 6 bucks. Is this what they call SWEAT equity lol ?


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## leiona

ok, for anyone whos curious about it, heres the diffrence between the butcherblock stained with coffee, then 3 coats Howards Block conditioner...
and the underside which I only did 3 coats of block conditioner alone, no stain.
stain on left, conditioner only on right...which one ? hmmmm....the right is more pronounced, while the left blends..
I"m starting the actual countertops tomorrow and I have to decide whether to stain or not to stain..


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## leiona

i like the stark definition in the unstained on the right. YAY i finally get to break out the orbital sander! thank goodness I'm off all weekend


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## leiona

I got the trim done and the entire house and yard cleaned this weekend...thats good right?? At least I can stand to be here again! Renno is messy!


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## leiona

got all three cabinet doors done, corner cabinet by the stove remodled, and another two hours worth of chipping done on the wall glue. I wish i could wake up tomorrow morning and find the glue residue has miraculously been removed by the wall glue fairy...
When thats done i can put everything together. Heres finished cabinet doors dry fit, minus the paint.


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## mathx

*poly, tung, linseed, mineral oil?*



leiona said:


> ..oh and I've got mineral oil coming, i ordered it last night. I think I will try the mineral oil treatment first and if it dosen't work for me I'll sand it , stain it , and poly it later.


Must admit im new here and didnt read all 13 pages (just 7 or 8)  Your project looks pretty amazing. I stole a few tips from your hard work along the way!

As for the treatment on wood - I'd avoid poly. I polied parts of my pine floor just to see what it'd look like, and went with PURE tung oil in the end (not adulterated 50% or other blends with mineraloil or spirits (toxic!) - got it at Lee Valley up here in Canada). I DID poly the floor UNDER the sink in the (bottomless) cabinet, however, and that was good, cuz we had a bad leak from the kitchen plumbing... good think the cabinets were caulked to the floor, was a small lake in there slowly draining through the cracks into the basement (luckily near the floor drain). No
damage at all to the floor, no buckling/swelling/etc. Thats what encasing something in plastic will do! 

Tung is a bit more work, takes a full 72 hrs to dry enough before next coat (and a week to fully dry - can walk around in socks on it 24-36 hrs later, then just wash the socks heh, dont wear them elsewhere tho!) but looks better. 3 coats did it (over as many weeks, with gentle treatment in between coatings!). I'd even do 4 in high traffic zones. On floors you can crack poly, and it's very hard to repair. Tung, you can just wash it, sand it a tiny bit, wipe it down damp, let dry and reapply tung anytime (every year or three or as needed) and it's ready to go. I did dilute it with natural citrus solvent for the first coat as it's pretty thick and wanted it to penetrate the wood. 2nd coat was pure. 3rd was 1/3rd dilluted. (boy did the house smell nice. like nutty orange creamsicles!)

As for a countertop, I have a butcher's block cabinet top and I polyed it  Im a little sad about that. It was in a high liquids/messyness area, so I thought i'd do it. But it loses the texture of the wood and just looks like someone encased in in plastic. When I get some time Im going to sand it off and either do tung or linseed, possibly mineral oil. Ill test it out on some extra pieces I have first to see what it looks like as it polymerizes over a month or two before I get around to tackling that project..

We rent a cottage that has butcherblock countertops right beside the sink/stove/everywhere, and it still looks great after 8 years of renting. They resand/re treat it from time to time, so Im inspired. Has such a great warm texture, and nothing slides off the counter. (Just dont put hot frypans - or leaky raspberry containers on it - though we soaked that stain back out over 5 days, lol! lucky!  

There's a few sites that sing the praises of pure 100% tung out there. They convinced me. It was de rigeur for 100s of years before the chemical industry caught up with lazier people (yes, nothing is easier than a coat of water-based poly drying in 1hr...). I look forward to using Tung again, esp on a counter or tabletop.


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## yogi_bear_79

*terracotta*

Great work.

I have a little concern about this statement:



> ...handyman's gonna raise the back door for me so i can lay luan over the existing vinyl and set my terra cotta tiles on that...




Am I understanding that you intend to put 1/4" luan down over existing vinyl that is over more vinyl? And then you are going to thinset terracotta tiles overtop?

Concerns are the original vinyl could have asbestos? If not I would tear that up taking the newer with it. Otherwise you may consider a floating type floor install instead. Luan isn't really suitable for underlayment except maybe under vinyl. Luan is going to give too much and crack your tiles or grout lines. 

If you want terracotta you should remove all vinyl, check your subfloor and joists for strength, add appropriate plywood no less than 1/2" thick, then ceramic backer board or Ditra, then your tiles.


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## leiona

Thank you yogi and mathx for your helpful advice...like i said, i need all i can get of that! I decided to go with mineral oil on the butcher block followed by a conditioner with a mineral oil and beeswax mixture for the final coat. they are soft warm and beautiful now! i will post a pic in a day or two when i finally install them. my cabinets are just waiting for one more coat of paint and then they will go on.
I decided to do a dark dark brown cork or bamboo floating... or possibly glue down, floor instead of terra cotta, even though i still love the T/C the best. Its just going to be more work and cost than i'm able to do right now.
I was able to find a reasonably priced sink with a drainboard side at Ikea, btw...i love ikea! but it will be a couple weeks before that goes in..i gotta go out of town for ten days next week so that will cut into the remodel. but i did manage to get all the glue off the wall, over SEVERAL days..sore muscles...headaches... ugh never again!!! i plastered up the wrecked wall and it looks fine...good enough till i get a backsplash that is :wink:

I havent had anything interesting to post lately since its all painting and plaster work right now but i will get a pic up soon because it looks completely diffrent than before ..amazing really!


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## leiona

ok heres the tile glue wall i chipped away at, all repaired, with a coat of primer. (post # 179 shows the wall previously) i just did a coat of joint compound, let it dry, did another coat and then brushed it with a little soft bristle brush i found, and blended it in with the texture thats there already. it looks good enough until i get a backsplash. better than i thought. the cabinets will be white too.


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## CoconutPete

Nice progress!:thumbsup:


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## leiona

Thanks pete! Well I'm off to california for a couple days then driving back to West Virginia with my fiancee who I haven't seen for two months!! I rushed to get the kitchen in leavable condition and here it is . I'm halfway done!


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## Ironlight

That looks great!


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## leiona

Thank you Ironlight! I am getting close to the end! I bought all my shelf brackets and my sink. I decided to keep it white so i painted the kitchen cotton. Its so bright and clean looking i just couldnt think of a better color. I'm finally back in the game here and all i need now is my faucet and my flooring which Louie has agreed to buy so yeah!
I'm gonna go with a glue down rubber floor in the kitchen. it dosent require a subfloor, will stick to anything and has a 15 year gaurantee so it will work. heres the sink i got...this sucker is nearly four feet long !


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## Ironlight

Your built-in drainboard is making me drool. I so want one of those.

It's making me think of a kitchen I was in not so long ago, in a rowhouse in Georgetown here in DC. It looked like it dated from the 70's, and the fascinating thing about it was that all the counters were made of stainless steel, and had obviously been fabricated for that specific layout as they had seamless corners. The stove burners, electric, were integrated right into the countertop, and there was an integrated drainboard. While the kitchen was old and in need of renovation, it was so cool the owners just could not bring themselves to do away with that counter and stove.

You've done an amazing job. I can't wait to see the finished product.

As far as the backsplash goes, take your time and figure out what you really want. There are so many design and material options that playing with various design ideas is half the fun.


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## leiona

thanks again..your support and compliments definetely keep me goin here! i got the sink from Ikea..$189.00, a steal if you ask me


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## leiona

I just tried to hang my first shelf using these type of screws because my stud finder wont find the studs through this thick drywall/plaster and here is what i am now left with..I do not know what to do or how im gonna hang these shelves..does anyone have any advice? i am desperate here!


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## cocobolo

Leiona, what you have there is a butterfly type of fastener. It looks as though the wings might be on backwards, but I'm not certain about that.

What you do with those is to fold the wings against the screw part, and drill a hole big enough to clear the folded assembly. Then you push the wings through the drywall. You will need to have some sort of slotted bracket that you can slide down over that screw. Snug the screw up and you should be OK.

If your stud finder won't work (it really should!) try this. Tap very gently with a light hammer across your wall and listen for the change in sound as you go. Try not to beat the wall up too badly when you do that! As the sound gets more "solid", that's where the stud will be.

Here's an easier and foolproof way. At the exact height you plan on having a shelf, take a thin finishing nail at least 2" long, and drive it right through the drywall every inch along that line. Eventually, you will hit a stud. You should normally find a stud somewhere around 15 1/4" out from the corner, but that of course depends on the wall framing. Plus, you should have two studs right in the corners of any wall intersections.


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## leiona

i must have the things backwards because they wiggle alot even though i tightened them as much as possible, but i dont see how i can get them all the way through the wall till they open up if i put them the other way...i have to screw it in with the bracket attached... and the wall is like an inch thick. the fact that my bracket is skinnier that the gaping hole i have to make to get the butterfly through is something i hadn't foreseen. I dont think those brackets are going to work. i may have to do something else like hang the shelves from the bulkhead with wire cable or chains or something. I am so lost. I just searched dorfs thread for some ideas but i cant find anything.
i like the finishing nail idea, maybe ill try that but i fear my brackets wont be spaced evenly under my shelf and i cant stand asymmetry. thanks for the advice though..
FRUSTRATING!


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## leiona

heres my favorite new flower and the laceleaf japanese maple i bought today.


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## leiona

new tree


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## cocobolo

Let's try one thing at a time here.

Forget the butterfly fasteners. I'm no fan of those things anyway.

Find your studs using the nail trick, or the hammer trick or any way you like, but find ALL the studs where your shelves will be going.

Show me a clear photo of your shelf brackets. Then lets go from there.


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## shumakerscott

I'm with cocobolo. The studs are there, you just have to find them. A better pic would help too. dorf dude...


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## leiona

ok i will send detailed pics and a description of what im doing and hopefully you guys can help because at this point, hanging the shelves from the bulkhead is my best alternative plan and i really dont think that will go with my "theme". apparently when i drilled the holes for the butterflys i managed to go exactly in between the studs so i got 8 inches of empty space on either side of my holes 
oh and there is a bathroom on the other side of the wall with a built in medicine cabinet so i think the studs are offset, i dont believe they are 16 inches apart in this particular wall.


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## leiona

ok here goes...boy i hope you guys can understand my scrawl...
*pic 1* the wall of doom
*pic 2* the plan for it is to have shelves, the horizontal lines, with brackets, the vertical lines..and the hood over the stove in between
*pic 3* the wall is 8'2" with 42 inches from right to left over the counter and 23 inches from left to right over the other side counter near the doorway 
*pic 4* the bathroom on the other side of the wall of doom, the medicine cabinet is 36 inches from the corner
*pic 5* my brackets
*pic 6* my shelf im currently trying to hang..its 42 inches long

and there it is. i cant find the studs with the stud finder, or the hammer sound trick. i havent tried the finishing nail trick yet because im hoping not to put a line of additional holes in the wall if i dont have to, the plaster tends to chip at the slightest tap of the nail. will post pics seperate to keep them big enough to see.


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## leiona

pic 2..the plan for it is to have shelves, the horizontal lines, with brackets, the vertical lines..and the hood over the stove in between


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## leiona

pic 3... the counter runs 42in


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## leiona

pic 4-the other side of the wall..and pic 5


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## leiona

pic 6...shelf is 12 in deep, 42 in long and 3/4 in thick. so theres my best descriptions...i hope you guys can figure this out because i cannot. thanks for brainstorming with me!


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## cocobolo

Have you tried to find the studs from the other side of the wall?


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## leiona

wow, that is brilliant! see why i covet your advice? so simple yet so logical!! why couldnt i just think of that? :blush: thank you!


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## BigJim

99% of the time there is a stud on one side of the electrical outlet, then you can measure 16 inches and see if there is another one.


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## cocobolo

jiju1943 said:


> 99% of the time there is a stud on one side of the electrical outlet, then you can measure 16 inches and see if there is another one.


Leiona, Jim is right...except that I think it's 100% of the time!

If your studs are not on 16" centers - which is possible - use the nail trick from the other side of the wall. The small nail holes are dead easy to fill with spackle or anything similar.

Something else you might consider.

Instead of using just a single shelf, have you thought about using two shelves - but joining the ends together to make a sort of open box affair. Add a back to the shelves, and then you don't need any brackets at all. You can screw right through the back directly to the studs.

I made a very basic shelf unit in our small cabin here just using something like a 1 x 2 under the shelves, which I screwed to the wall. I can show you a pic if you like.

Makes it easy to mount without needing brackets hanging down.


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## leiona

i would like to see a pic of that unit because i really didnt want to use brackets to begin with but all my dishes are goin to go on the shelves so i want them to be super strong. i chose the open shelving so the wall color could be visible behind the dishes and i wanted to look super simple and clean, i felt that if i went with a box type shelving unit i might as well just put in upper cabinets. i am so stubborn!
all these ideas are excellent though thanks guys!


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## Ironlight

leiona, there is another reason that you don't want to use brackets...they're not as strong.

Wall cabinets, because they have a back and are boxes, transfer the force into a largely straight up and down force, along the wall. Shelves with brackets, on the other hand, place a lever force on the shelf, trying to bend it down. You would need some serious, serious brackets (more like big triangles, actually) to hold a shelf full of heavy plates and be confident it would last.

I would definately take Keith's advice on the box idea. 

And I would go ahead and do the nail stuff on the wall. After all, it's going to be covered with backsplash shortly. So what if it has a few pinholes in it.


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## cocobolo

Ironlight said:


> leiona, there is another reason that you don't want to use brackets...they're not as strong.
> 
> Wall cabinets, because they have a back and are boxes, transfer the force into a largely straight up and down force, along the wall. Shelves with brackets, on the other hand, place a lever force on the shelf, trying to bend it down. You would need some serious, serious brackets (more like big triangles, actually) to hold a shelf full of heavy plates and be confident it would last.
> 
> I would definitely take Keith's advice on the box idea.
> 
> And I would go ahead and do the nail stuff on the wall. After all, it's going to be covered with backsplash shortly. So what if it has a few pinholes in it.


That is so true. It is very easy to get an awful lot of weight sitting on those shelves.


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## cocobolo

I took some random pics of the shelves in the cabin for you to try and see how it was done.

Pretty straight forward really. I realize they aren't quite as finished as you might like to have on your wall, but they are strong, easy to do, and easy to mount.

You should be able to see how I put what looks like a 1 x 2 under each shelf to stiffen it, although the wood was plenty strong by itself. It is that 1 x 2 which you can screw directly on to your studs.

You won't even notice any screws after awhile...you'll be so happy just to have a shelf!


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## jimmywarwicks

Your kitchen is the heart of your home. A kitchen remodeling can be one of the more rewarding projects in the home.When it comes to design, Kitchen Remodeling can be a tough thing to do.


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## leiona

i do like the shelves in your cabin coco ...i wish i hadnt bought 40$ worth of brackets at ikea already, and 20$ worth of those useless butterfly clips. i cannot find the reciepts! i guess the reason i was going to go with brackets was because i have to use brackets under part of my countertop where it peninsulas and also under the pass through, and i figured it would all match if i bracketed the shelves. plus the bracketed shelves i saw in kitchens while scouring the internet for ideas were by far my favorite. I am going to look for the studs from the bathroom on the other side of the wall and if i dont like the possible position of the brackets i will likely try to build a box style shelving system like yours..which will require me to buy more wood UGH. this kitchen project is way more expensive than i hoped it would be. But i know in the end it will be worth it, whatever i do, because you saw what i started with....UG-LY! :wink:
thanks for the pics CB!!


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## cocobolo

Leiona, the two most expensive rooms in any house are always the kitchen and the bathroom.

Believe it or not, it isn't uncommon for some kitchens to run in excess of $100,000.00 a shot.


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## leiona

i know poppybolo but I'm still pouting 
So anyways, i unheeded all of your kind advice and went with the bracket system..no way was i getting stuck with all those brackets! I had to use them. so I did what you said and found my studs via the bathroom wall, and let me tell ya..how surprised was i to find each of the first studs from the corner to be set at 14 inches from the corner!? i had to make a million little holes in the bathroom wall :no: but i found them and found a way to make the brackets look fairly centered and well spaced. please dont stop giving me advice just because i dont always follow it...i still write it all down! 
so here is my progress thus far this rainy cold sunday afternoon.....


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## leiona

now tell me they are not cute :thumbsup:


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## cocobolo

OK, if you insist...they are not cute.

Actually, I think they look pretty good. Just keep an eye out for any bending or pulling away from the wall. If you have good strong screws in there, you should be OK. If - as you think - there might be an inch of drywall on that surface, be sure to allow sufficient length of screw to go through the bracket, plus the drywall, plus about another 1 1/2" into the studs.

I think I would be using about 3" #12 screws, possibly even #14. How many screws are holding each bracket?


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## no1hustler

I'm impressed with your remodel so far Leiona. These guys are giving good advice about the open shelves. I'd say you are okay if you used long enough screws and don't over load the shelves. I actually have some IKEA shelves up in our kitchen too. I wasn't as lucky to find studs and I ended up having to uses some special anchors. But it has almost been 3 years and they are holding up really well. I have a lot of weight on mine too. I was very reluctant to put too much on but it seems to be holding really well. 

The pic below is from when we first put them up. On a typical day, we have 6 of those large plates, plus 6 smaller ones and 6 of those bowls. The other shelve usually have 4 different size nesting glass bowls plus a few other ceramic dishes up top.


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## leiona

i have two 2 1/2 inch screws in each bracket but when i take the shelves back down to stain them i will replace each top screw with a 3 inch or larger. every one of the brackets is on a stud except the leftmost bracket on the long shelf so i may reinforce that with wall anchors. and yes, i took a measurement, my drywall plus plaster is 3/4 of an inch thick.
finding the studs on the other wall where i will also put shelves is gonna be much harder since its an exterior wall. do you think that wall will also have its first studs placed 14 inches from the corner? i hope so because i am going to find them with the finishing nail method too but from the "good" side. i dont want a million more holes to patch!
oh and instead of finishing nails, because i'm lazy too, i used my thinnest drill bit and drilled holes until i hit studs. I pushed really hard on the drill and if it gave way after the drywall layer no stud, if i got resistance then there was a stud. i will find my next studs on this exterior wall by doing the "stud find" under the counter line since i have the countertops off right now. 
thanks for the pic No1H i like the stainless look. i was going for rustic country kitchen but its looking more like contemporary country kitchen instead. I truly am making it up as i go. none of my original ideas have been used! i dont even know what its gonna look like when its done lol! i guess we will all see


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## no1hustler

Thanks, a lot has changed in that picture since it has been taken. 

I'd be careful taking the shelves down and putting them back up. It could be my paranoia but I'd be worried about the holes getting weakened by taking the screws out and going back in. Perhaps someone with more knowledge will chime in on that.


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## leiona

no Im not going to remove the brackets lol, just the wood, which i havent screwed in yet..this was just a dry fit to make sure it was all gonna look how i want. the brackets are there for good. i sat dishes on there for the picture so i could see how roomy the shelves would be. roomy enough for me! but thanks for your concern, sometimes i do overlook that kind of stuff.


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## leiona

so i got a new baby today! i will finally be able to run the airbrush i got years ago 
i thought id follow the 100% rule and find a stud for my next set of shelves right off the bat on either side of the plug...gues that rule is only a 99% rule cause there wasnt one...the stud was set 11 inches from the window. ugh could they be more inconsistent??


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## leiona

ok check out this progress! all i got left is the sink faucet and the floor!!! i've been excited to see the pics side by side..


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## cocobolo

Well, I must say that is one hell of a nice improvement. :thumbsup:


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## leiona

Thanks :thumbup:


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## CoconutPete

Looks great! 

I skipped over the sink part at first and was thinking "there's something missing in that second pic". haha


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## leiona

i bought the kitchen flooring today..it is a rubber type floor that glues down and has a 20 year warranty, i have to rip up all the old floor to maintain the warranty though so you all should be very happy lol.:wink:
Its not the style i wouldve liked but it goes very well with the countertops and the existing oak hardwood that runs through the rest of the house so it will work. all together with glue it was 800.00 fot the 130 square feet. expensive!


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## leiona

got the sink in last night...now i'm off to find a faucet then i can finally mount my cupboard doors, yay! boy was it tough cutting that butcher block with a jigsaw, took an entire hour just to make the cut :no:


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## cocobolo

leiona said:


> got the sink in last night...now i'm off to find a faucet then i can finally mount my cupboard doors, yay! boy was it tough cutting that butcher block with a jigsaw, took an entire hour just to make the cut :no:


That might have a lot to do with the type of jigsaw you had and more so the blade.


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## leiona

its a cheap little skil jigsaw i think meant mostly for scrolling out thin wood and metals..the blade however, i paid 5 dollars for and was specifically for countertops..but its done and we are no worse for the wear...except maybe Louie, who did all the cutting there. He slept in about three and a half hours later than normal today lol!
Heres the faucet i got..Lowes for 198.00


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## leiona

i have to mount a 25 inch wide by 5 foot piece of butcher block to the wall under this pass through window...any ideas on how i should do it?


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## shumakerscott

leiona said:


> i have to mount a 25 inch wide by 5 foot piece of butcher block to the wall under this pass through window...any ideas on how i should do it?


I would use steel L bracket on the wall mounted to the studs. Not the little cheapish brackets but a solid length of steel. Then use 2 down legs on the corners. Just tuck them back a little to be out of the way. dorf dude...


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## Pittsville

leiona said:


> ok check out this progress! all i got left is the sink faucet and the floor!!! i've been excited to see the pics side by side..


What about a range hood?


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## daisyexpress

Hi there

i love the wood. I build kitchens and furniture and used salvaged windows and doors where ever I can. i would love to help you with this. Hello to the other gentleman Cocobolo...a fellow islander. I am new to this forum so am not too familiar with how it works. My blogsite is www.daisyexpress.blogspot.com. I am still working on uploading content but you can check out the links in the portfolio. I am also Daisyexpress on facebook. Let me know if you would like my input too but any man from the Gulf Islands will know his stuff.  My best, Sheryl


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## leiona

I am doing the work myself and thank you for the window treatment link. unfortunately the rsange hood will have to wait along with a new window..we are out of dinero.
But with spring here i will be spending most of my time working in my gardens and working on my pond we just built. I'll update often though. I am decorating in antiques and handmade crafts.


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## leiona

hi Daisy..i just may throw a question or two your way because i got alot more things to build. welcome!


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## leiona

i got turtles the size of quarters at the pet store at the beach one year, now they have outgrown my aquarium. they will go in there along with my alge eating catfish.and the crawdad i rescued from my son is in there now! i have to figure out how to make it eco friendly for the turtles though, and how to keep them in there...


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## Ironlight

They will probably stay there if there is enough food since they are aquatic turtles, but they won't last the winter out there so you'll need to catch them and bring them back inside.


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## leiona

So I'm at a stall, still waiting on the floor and loulou to install the sink faucet:no:I swear he's slower than me. but one day I will cook like a civilized person again and have some running water...in the same room!!! 
But anyhow, everything is much the same, but heres some fresh pics of the kitchen and some of the things i've gotten while we wait for the floor..and stuff.


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## leiona

this is a chalkboard i made out of an old mirror with a plastic frame..and blue mason jars where i put the flour  I love the old crate too, took me forever to find one that was a good price..$3.00 yay!


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## leiona

here is the plants in the window..cilantro, basil and a philedendron..i dont know what the spiky one on the left is though..and my beloved magnatized knife rack. Sorry my pics suck..still taking them with my phone.


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## leiona

got the garden planted and the pond pretty well done ,but nothing done on the kitchen yet except a little of the floor ripped up. 
Sucky job but we discovered that* if you run a hair dryer over the section of vinal you are trying to rip up, it comes up really easy.* that softens the glue i guess.
here's a pic of my turtle. we put him in saturday and he is still there!


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## cocobolo

Thought I had better drop by and see how you are doing...and WOW! 

All manner of good things!

I particularly like your pond. Lots of very nice rock there. I have to settle for whatever I can find on the island here, and believe me there isn't any too much choice. Looks like Mr. Turtle is a happy guy!


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## Sephora

Any updates? It's been a month!!!


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## leiona

sorry i havent updated in forever but as soon as spring hit there was no way of getting anything at all done inside..ive got 5 acres of yard, 5 large flowerbeds, a pond project and a huge garden, not to mention that late spring and summer is a super busy time with dogs at the shop! ..but its getting colder and im back inside for fall and winter. 
I havent done a single thing to the kitchen since my last update but we are starting on it again here this week so updates will be coming.. and i swear this project will eventually get done!! :yes:


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## DoyleSumrall

A vintage wallpaper border would make it look nice


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