# Need a Commercial Roofer for Baltimore City Low Slope Roof!



## Mphasemedia (Dec 22, 2006)

I've had the darndest time finding a COMPETENT commerical roofer to do a mixed-use re-roof for me! This summer, I managed to get four roofers over, and after doing handsprings and whatever they told me, waiting forever, I got 2 wildly differing estimates. 

The roof is on a 100 yr old BRICK duplex I own in a decent Baltimore City neighborhood that is MIXED USE - residential and offices. This property will be my small company's new studio [computer consultant business] AND my bachelor home [upstairs]. The overall property is in good condition but I'm renovating it [all systems upgrades, new kitchen/baths] and the present skylight is leaking and has damaged the 2nd story ceiling. I've taken extensive photos for anyone to take a look at too.

The roof has been examined by a roofing consultant/engineer AND a GC [my client/friend] and 4 roofers. Two roofers wanted to slap down another layer of BUR, despite the fact that I don't want BUR and the structure can't handle another layer of that stuff [and yes, I don't like it!]. Two were commercial/residential guys who are 'authorized' roofers of Fibertite & or DuroLast guys, and I've been waiting for a quote for weeks now. Man, I need to become a Roofer! 

Anyway, I'm an easy going guy, but I know what I want; my GC client is a commercial GC and they absolutely agree w/my roofing consult guy. Get rid of the BUR, use 2" poly-iso rigid insulation sandwiched between SecureRock or DensDeck prime. Copper skylight can stay, it needs a new curb & flashings. Biggest issue? A curb needs to be built between my unit and guy nextdoor, as the demising curb btween units has been layered in BUR so much, it's disappeared [see photos].

I've spoken AT LENGTH to the manufacturer's reps for Fibertite & my asst spoke to the Durolast rep, who even came out to the site. For reasons I don't understand, and my GC client doesn't get [he even intervened and got on the phone and called the Fibertite contractor who has done work for them recently!] - this small project isn't interesting. 

Yes, it's fairly small but it's a good job for a competent crew who need work over the next month or so. I'm not asking for the sky, sun and moon here. This property is a great old brick structure that's solid; no need to replace joists, no real issues with the skylight. 

So - who would like to give me a bid on this project - Balto / Washington DC/VA region - heck, even southern PA guys - come on here's the link to the array of photos I took this fall. I'm READY TO GO NOW! 

http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/VT2Cq9sY

Thanks! 

Alec in Baltimore

[email protected]:thumbsup:


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## Mphasemedia (Dec 22, 2006)

Some other details:

1. Roof has a METAL DECK, with 6"W X 1" boards over the metal as the original "deck". All seem to be in okay shape. 

2. Roof has 2 components - the main roof & the wrap around porch roof. Both are "low slope" but do NOT pond water. 

3. Require metal flashings rather than draping the BUR over the edges as presently exists; and I need new downspout on the wrap-around porch. Optionally, new 8" half-round gutters [galvanized is fine] but that's not my first choice due to the unpleasant appearance compared to other units on block. 

4. No parking on site, no off street, so dumpter for debris needs to be parked on street and material hauled to it [will require a permit I can have my GC pull for $60.00]. Or I can provide the dumpster/permit for reduction in price. 

5. If necessary, I can hire my GC client to build the new knee-wall between units, and then roofer needs to seal/apply membrane over it to seal out elements, etc. 

6. Free beer & pizza included

7. Have computers that are driving you nuts? Not enough network capabilities? Ugly or non-existent website? Let's talk about exchange of services too - and yes, I do know what I'm doing and have references. 

Alec


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## Christopher (Dec 7, 2006)

Alec,


> Man, I need to become a Roofer!


 Yes, what has occured is that you have become more educated in roofing than many of your local roofing contractors. This happened with me in HVAC and it is very frustrating.

I believe that _Polyglass USA_ is a competitor of _FiberTite Roofing Systems_. Perhaps they have relationships with other roofers in your area that may entertain your job:

http://www.polyglass.net/html/usa/index.htm

...Christopher


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## Mphasemedia (Dec 22, 2006)

Christopher said:


> Alec,
> Yes, what has occured is that you have become more educated in roofing than many of your local roofing contractors. This happened with me in HVAC and it is very frustrating.
> 
> I believe that _Polyglass USA_ is a competitor of _FiberTite Roofing Systems_. Perhaps they have relationships with other roofers in your area that may entertain your job:
> ...


Hey Chris = thanks for that recommendation. 

I agree, once a buyer has become "educated" about the process/materials, the contractor disappears. Which leads me to believe they were all full of it to begin with - why is an educated buyer/consumer so threatening to them? I'm not going to sue anyone, I just know what I want and what is needed [that's why I hired the roof consultant]. 

It's to the point of me having to hire my own client, the GC, so that THEY can hire a roofer to do this job...honestly, if I thought I could hire a crew and oversee the work [which I can, but what a hassle], I would. Years ago, I remember my dad [who was a project mgr for commercial GCs for years] telling me how the trades were obliterated by the 1980's recession. Well, I guess now the chickens have come home to roost and consumers, even my GC client, will admit that hiring subs for most projects is like the hardest element of the project. Too many good subs have plenty of work, the rest of the bums who don't do good work are eager to rip you off. True story from this fall: I had one guy, who was a "family friend" supposedly, and a long time roofer come over, after being told we only wanted single ply membrane, and stamp his foot on the roof without any visual inspection, and declare, "Yep, that's gonna be $4800.00 and another $800.00 next year to recoat it!" He meant another layer of BUR - right after getting told AGAIN that it was unacceptable. 

One idiot claimed they did single ply membrane [Stevens?] and instead gets up there, walks around a bit, tells me that there is no such thing as "SecureRock" or "DensDeck Prime" [he said he never heard of it, so it must not exist! :laughing::laughing:]. Then tells me he'll remove all the old BUR, build the curbs, slap down more BUR, then slap an EDPM on top of it [no insulation...told me to go into attic space - about 18" high tops] and spray it in!]. What a guy. That would cost me $11,800.00 - and I'd pay for the dumpster [another $475.00] and permits. Nice one. 

If I treated my clients the way I've been treated, I'd be living in a box down by the river. :whistling2::whistling2:


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## Talos4 (Aug 10, 2006)

Lot's going on here, let me take a stab at it from my POV. Being a commercial roofing estimator in another part of the country.



> The roof has been examined by a roofing consultant/engineer AND a GC [my client/friend] and 4 roofers. Two roofers wanted to slap down another layer of BUR, despite the fact that I don't want BUR and the structure can't handle another layer of that stuff [and yes, I don't like it!].


Looking at the photos, Complete tear off down to the deck. No question. The two "roofers" are a joke. 



> Get rid of the BUR, use 2" poly-iso rigid insulation sandwiched between SecureRock or DensDeck prime. Copper skylight can stay, it needs a new curb & flashings. Biggest issue? A curb needs to be built between my unit and guy nextdoor, as the demising curb btween units has been layered in BUR so much, it's disappeared [see photos].


 You might think about using 2.5" iso and a coverboard. Additional "R" value to meet IBC code (R-20) for re-roofing. 

I actually think your "biggest" issue may be the masonry under all that flood coating. That chimmney looks like it has had a lot of moisture trapped against it and the mortar and bricks area deteriorating.

There'll be very little to adhere to without repairs. 

No telling what the parapet walls look like until the flashings are gone. 



> I've spoken AT LENGTH to the manufacturer's reps for Fibertite & my asst spoke to the Durolast rep, who even came out to the site. For reasons I don't understand, and my GC client doesn't get [he even intervened and got on the phone and called the Fibertite contractor who has done work for them recently!] - this small project isn't interesting.


Talking to Manufacturers Reps is usually an excercise in futility. All they want is the BIG stuff. 

Here's my take on your job....

Before the roofing starts, have the parapet walls and that chimmney looked at, My fear is as stated above. The flashings can be peeled away for inspection and temped back in. 

Without at least an idea of what's going on under all that asphalt the roofers will open it up and find nothing but dust for walls. Without a masonry restoration contractor lined up, that's a costly delay and a real problem. 

Coordination is key between the two. Remove only as much flashing to expose the walls that then can be repaired in a day. No open roofs EVER!

My recommendation... Tear it off completly. 

Screw a layer of 2.5 iso, hot mop a 3/4" layer of perlite over that, mop a 43# base sheet. 

Heat weld a 160 mil modified bitumen membrane preferably derbigum GP. This is NOT rolled roofing. Or available at Home Depot. 

New blocking at the perimeter with a cant where needed. 

New 24 ga galvanized prefinished edge metal. New 24 ga galvanized prefinished counter flashings along all wall flashings.

Raise all curbs to a minimum of 8" above the finished roof level. Eliminate the ones not being used. 

Replace all vent stack leads.

New sumped drain leads installed.

Replace that skylight. It may look nice but, I guarantee that glass will begin cracking and leak. A new unit will perfrom much better and save you heating dollars in the long run. 

I cannot give you a hard number for the job, I would need the following: 

Total square footage of all areas, lineal footage of the flashings including height, That includes curbs, walls, parapet caps. 

How much tear off? In other words, what is the thickness of the existing roofing materials. and what types. (has anyone done core cuts to verify the existing?)

Be sure to build in a contingency for deck replacement if needed. Usually a square foot price for time and materials as it is completed.
That should be included in the roofers proposal. 

A square foot price for the job in our area using the system described above would be between about $5.50 - $7.00 a sqft. 

We have our own dumpsters and boom trucks. We crane the tear off from the roof and haul it away. 

Another question I have is what is your objection to a BUR? 

A properly maintained BUR WILL outlast any single ply on the market. In addition, with a single ply, that's all you have between the weather and your computers! a single thin layer. 

.45-.60 mils of plastic or rubber. cut or hole and the waters in.

OR a minimum of 160 mils and a base sheet with Mod Bit OR 250 mils of 4 ply and asphalt. built in redundancy . 

Also be wary of a manufacturer that calls it's product the worlds best roof! 

Just my $.02 worth.


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