# A simple brake pad change. What could go wrong?



## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

2007 Honda Civic. A friend of mine’s car and he had grinding brakes so he asked me to take a look. Took it around the block and, yeah, front pads were clearly shot. I pulled the passenger side tire off, opened up the caliper and confirmed the pads were worn out. Off to Autozone for some Duralast Gold ceramic pads ($36), complete with new hardware, and I figured it wouldn’t take too long to swap pads. The rotor on the passenger side looked good, so I figured just a pad change would do the trick. 

Plus, Honda rotors have those little screws that hold them on the hub, and they absolutely will not come off with a screwdriver. A ½ manual impact driver will take them off, but I don’t have one of those.

The caliper bolts were on pretty tight. Needed a breaker bar to crack them loose, but all in all it was a simple and straight-forward process… on the passenger side.

Below is a short video showing the passenger side. Yes, I know, I got a little heavy handed with the Permatex anti-seize lube. So sue me.

On the driver’s side, the rotor was damaged. About an inch of the outer hub was rusty and pitted. I didn’t realize this until I had already finished the passenger side. My first thought was that I would be going back to Autozone (spending somebody else’s money) for two new rotors. Lesson 1: check BOTH sides before starting a brake job.

The problem I then had was the little screws holding the rotor on. No way (for me) to get them off other than drill them out. No big deal, I thought, since the rotor is bad anyway. Drill out a screw head, pull off the rotor, put the new one on. What could go wrong? Lesson 2: have the proper tools to do the job. 

I drilled and I drilled and then I drilled some more. One screw was already gone, so I only had one to do. Couldn’t drill it out. Had a nice symmetrical dimple where the head was located, but the bits I used weren’t good enough the get it off. Then, it started to rain. Remember, I was on the street in front of my house, with rain starting to fall. I wasn’t happy. Lesson 3: when you are drilling out a screw head (unsuccessfully) and it starts to rain, go in the house, sip a beer and scratch the Labrador behind the ears. He likes that. 

Didn’t rain very long, or hard, so I went back outside and decided to just install the new pads and get the car drivable until I could figure out what to do with the rotors. When I put the driver’s side pads on, I couldn’t close the caliper! I swung down but there was about 1/8 of an inch of interference. WTF? 

Then I found the culprit, and the reason the rotor was damaged. The caliper slide pin on one side was stuck. I had to tap it with a hammer just to push it in. All the other slides were fine, nice and springy. I worked on getting it loose for about a minute and finally got it out. It was dry as a bone. I put some anti-seize lube on it (and the other one too) and the caliper was back to sliding easily. Lesson 4: don’t forget to lube the caliper slide pins.

Anyway, after I got it all back together, I took it for a long test drive. No noise, no vibration, no pulling. Just straight, silent, consistent stops. Well, that’s good. Maybe the rotor isn’t in need of replacement after all. What a way to spend Memorial Day.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

Hint
There is such a thing as an impact screw driver.
Walmart $13


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

hkstroud said:


> Hint
> There is such a thing as an impact screw driver.
> Walmart $13


I was quite aware of their existence. I also know there are four stores within 2 miles of where I was at the time that sell them. That is what I should have done, of course: Just go buy one.

Hindsight, 20/20, and all that.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Camry but I think they all work about the same. Thanks for the video but sure about that much lube on the pads? I remember about the slide pins on f150 and very little here and there on the rubbing points. That looks like friction surface contamination waiting to happen. When I get to mine, I think I'll have the little bolts handy. Also, the anti seize may not work in the slide pin boots. I think I did the same with f150 and it dried out quickly.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

carpdad said:


> Camry but I think they all work about the same. Thanks for the video but sure about that much lube on the pads? I remember about the slide pins on f150 and very little here and there on the rubbing points. That looks like friction surface contamination waiting to happen. When I get to mine, I think I'll have the little bolts handy. Also, the anti seize may not work in the slide pin boots. I think I did the same with f150 and it dried out quickly.


I went too far with the anti-seize! I made sure none was on the contact surface though. Autozone didn't have any brake part lube I could find. If it dries out, i guess i will go down to advance auto and get the permatex ultra extreme and relube the pins.

Brakes work great though. I think i will do the pads on the windstar this weekend. Probably get an impact driver and the right lube too. Got a NAPA near my office. Maybe check it out.


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## hkstroud (Mar 17, 2011)

> I think i will do the pads on the windstar this weekend.



You have to wait for the rains to start.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

If PB Blaster won't loosen those screws, I heat them with a Mapp Gas torch. Drilling is last resort.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Guap0_ said:


> If PB Blaster won't loosen those screws, I heat them with a Mapp Gas torch. Drilling is last resort.


I actually have a can of Blaster, but didn't use it. Didn't think it would make a difference. Guess I should have at least given it a try. Damn!


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Replace the bad rotor. It will grind those pads like a grinder and won't last long. Yes it works but it won't for long.:vs_cool:


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Always replace the disc if it's bad. BTW, why do people call them rotors. Rotors are in distributers. I never heard of rotor brakes.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Guap0_ said:


> Always replace the disc if it's bad. BTW, why do people call them rotors. Rotors are in distributers. I never heard of rotor brakes.


That is what's in the books at the Colleges.

Probably because they ROTATE, more than they stop.

And a disc is a frisbee. 

And why are Drum brakes called that, there is no drum there?


Because the industry has named them that.


ED

P. S. Brainbucket is right, you should have replaced the one ROTOR.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

I have always used bearing grease to lubricate the pins. 

I first de-grease them thoroughly and polish off any slight bits of rust with some fine sandpaper (600 or 800) or steel wool and then apply a thin coat of grease on them. If the pins are really rusted, I replace them.

For brake pads, I prefer Wagner ThermoQuiet. Not only do they come with replacement clips, they do not require anti-squeak compound. The instructions specifically says not to use it.

A tip if you want Wagners. Order them from Amazon instead of the local auto store, it is almost 50% cheaper on-line.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> That is what's in the books at the Colleges.


Thank God that I never went to college. In my time, no one went to college for auto mechanics.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> P. S. Brainbucket is right, you should have replaced the one ROTOR.


They are supposed to be replaced in pairs, or so I have read.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Brainbucket said:


> Replace the bad rotor. It will grind those pads like a grinder and won't last long. Yes it works but it won't for long.:vs_cool:


Just replacing one rotor is not a good idea. Rotors should always be replaced in pairs and new pads intalled at the same time.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

You can just replace 1 rotor but it's a good idea to turn the other one other wise it will pull on braking for a while before it 'breaks in' so to speak.:vs_cool:


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Brainbucket said:


> You can just replace 1 rotor but it's a good idea to turn the other one other wise it will pull on braking for a while before it 'breaks in' so to speak.:vs_cool:


Many newer vehicles, mostly higher end European vehicles, use rotors that by design cannot be turned and therefore must be replaced. Attempting to turn a rotor not designed for it can be very dangerous to both the person doing the turning and the vehicle’s driver.

Even if turning a rotor is possible, doing so will result in that side's caliper piston being more extended more than the new rotor side. This could result in a braking force imbalance causing the vehicle to pull to one side. Having one rotor turned will also result in differences in heat dissipation. This in turn can result in uneven breaking between the two sides.

Considering the potential hazards of replacing just one rotor, it is just false economy not to replace them both at the same time.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Rotors are pretty inexpensive. The last brake job I did on my Villager, it was like $50 for both. Navigator rotors (from NAPA) were about $80 for both.

I didn't think rotors or drums were turned much anymore.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Bigplanz said:


> They are supposed to be replaced in pairs, or so I have read.


In ideal circumstances (infinite funds), yes .

But who has that?

I thought that you had replaced one but not the other, I must have read wrong, because I could not find in your text that you did.

So when changing one rotor, take care to check the other side also.

ED


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

de-nagorg said:


> In ideal circumstances (infinite funds), yes .
> 
> But who has that?
> 
> ...


Sorry if my initial post was unclear, but on the Civic, I just replaced the pads. The passenger side rotor looked ok when I pulled the wheel. Driver's side, not so much. Yeah, I should have checked. 

On rockauto, you can get a Raybestos Rotor for this Civic for $12. Most every one listed is less than $30 a piece. Like I said, rotors are so cheap, why turn one?

Just checked my local NAPA. Price of a rotor between $33 and $39.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmmm... After MULTIPLE Honda rotors removals, I NEVER had issue drilling those screw heads out. Never. Those screws are absolutely useless and do nothing else but to add labor time and aggravate mechanic. SOFT metal that strips from slightest torque applied.
As I said, never. Though I have access to same screws made out of Ti and one one car, I actually replaced OEM ones with Ti ones. THOSE would have been fun to drill out.
Either get quality drill bits and, literally all you have to do is to shave down screw head, which is done with large size bit, the rotor slides off and you use vice grip to twist screw stud out - or simply shave it off with cutting wheel. Or, it was all so overheated at some point that screw got heat tempered and hardened enough to resist drill bit. 

Even if you were to drill hole all the way through rotor, down to hub, it negatively impacts nothing.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

ukrkoz said:


> Hmmm... After MULTIPLE Honda rotors removals, I NEVER had issue drilling those screw heads out. Never. Those screws are absolutely useless and do nothing else but to add labor time and aggravate mechanic. SOFT metal that strips from slightest torque applied.
> As I said, never. Though I have access to same screws made out of Ti and one one car, I actually replaced OEM ones with Ti ones. THOSE would have been fun to drill out.
> Either get quality drill bits and, literally all you have to do is to shave down screw head, which is done with large size bit, the rotor slides off and you use vice grip to twist screw stud out - or simply shave it off with cutting wheel. Or, it was all so overheated at some point that screw got heat tempered and hardened enough to resist drill bit.
> 
> Even if you were to drill hole all the way through rotor, down to hub, it negatively impacts nothing.


I thought it would be easy too. Those screws are just to hold the rotor on during the assembly of the car. They could be made of plastic, for all that's worth. I must have some awful drill bits.


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