# Drywall seam over door not screwed in...



## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Contractors (well recommended) put a seam right over the middle of a doorway. They used mesh on this seam but used tape in the rest of the kitchen. After priming our drywall, noticed it cracked all the way down the seam. Got up to see if it needed to be mudded over. Turns out the seam is not fastened/screwed down on either side. Both edges will flex well over a quarter of an inch back and forth. 

We feel the seam will never be stable and keep cracking without the drywall edges being fastened. Appears the header is set back some from putting a screwdriver in the space between bottom of drywall and top of door frame. 

Best options to fix this mess? Worth trying to reach the header with longer screws through the drywall? Best to cut the whole section over the top of the door out to the studs, and then redo the ceiling edge tape and tape new side joints? Worried about doing that.

Is putting a seam in the middle over a door normal? So frustrated, still need to fix bad mud in some areas. Seems one guy was better at mudding than the other, some seams are just great.

Thanks for any suggestions anyone may have.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

A joint over a door opening is not ideal. Mesh tape requires a setting compound over it, otherwise it's prone to crack. How tall is this joint? how far between supports?


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Hi Mark,


14 1/4 in seam, 36 in door frame, so guessing nearest studs are on outside of door frame as usual. My husband may have photos of the wall before drywall went up on his phone, but he cannot use his phone at work.


They used a 5 gallon bucket of ProForm ready mix. We bought some 45 QuickSet last night.


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

We have paper tape as well to use. Need to fix plumber drywall cuts in master bath closet as well. We hate water damage....


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

drywall spans stud spacing up the 24" OC center all over the house. Use paper tape and redo the joint.


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Okay, so there should be at least one stud over the header of the door. Don't understand why they did not screw in the edges of the drywall to stabilize it... So normal to tape and mud unfastened edges of drywall in this situation then? 



Thanks.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Okay, so there should be at least one stud over the header of the door. Don't understand why they did not screw in the edges of the drywall to stabilize it... So normal to tape and mud unfastened edges of drywall in this situation then?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 On the walls of your house the studs are at least 15 inches between, there is an unsupported seam at 4ft high on all the walls. Most times there is blocks in that space, a header would replace them but seldom comes to surface on both sides but because it is less that 24" the drywall hangers don't worry about it because it should be fine.


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Okay, gotcha, thanks. 



My husband took a break and found the photo; the door header goes all the way to the horizontal 2x4 below the ceiling edge. So there is at least solid wood behind the drywall and nothing should come through it then.


We'll try mudding it tonight then.


Thanks guys!


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Okay, gotcha, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If that seams opens again after that there is movement that should not be, it would indicate another problem.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> 
> 14 1/4 in seam, 36 in door frame, so guessing nearest studs are on outside of door frame as usual. My husband may have photos of the wall before drywall went up on his phone, but he cannot use his phone at work.
> ...


Without photos or more information, I would remove the mesh tape and joint compound, then use a thin knife to slide between the drywall sheets and find out how high the header goes above the door and mark with a pencil. Then I would get a pastry bag that has a 1/4" fitting. Drill several 3/8" holes between the drywall sheets, each hole at a slightly different angle. If your Quickset is not the lite type, good. Otherwise I would think that the regular would be better. In my neck of the woods the standard setting compound is USG Durabond. Durabond is almost 60% plaster of paris and has glues in it as well. Easy Sand is Durabond's lite version. When you drop a glob of Easy Sand on the floor and it dries, you can scrape it up with a spackle knife with little problem. When you drop a glob of Durabond on the floor, you might damage your spackle knife trying to scrape it up. For your purpose I would use the Proform Quickset if it is similar to Durabond.

Mix your Quickset so that it can squeeze out of the pastry bag, then squeeze it generously into the holes you have drilled, starting with those that are above the header, then do the holes over the header, taking care to get enough material in to fill up the space between the drywall and the header, taking care not to push on the drywall too much with the pastry bag. After doing this, lightly remove any mix sticking out of the holes with your finger so that no material is sticking out of the holes - otherwise it will be hard to sand down. Let this material harden and dry overnight. The next day your 2 pieces of drywall should not be able to bend in or out. Apply more Quiskset with a putty knife, making sure to fill the crack between the 2 sheets of drywall as well as any depressions left in the holes you filled the day before, making sure to skim the material tightly so you dont have to sand, and let that set. In a few hours you should be able to tape and finish, prime and paint.

Maybe not standard practice, but i have done many a job like this with durabond and expect them to hold up.

siffleur


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

A seam in the center of the door is normal. Framers and / or dry wallers just missed the boat there and one would probably blame the other.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

siffleur said:


> Without photos or more information, I would remove the mesh tape and joint compound, then use a thin knife to slide between the drywall sheets and find out how high the header goes above the door and mark with a pencil. Then I would get a pastry bag that has a 1/4" fitting. Drill several 3/8" holes between the drywall sheets, each hole at a slightly different angle. If your Quickset is not the lite type, good. Otherwise I would think that the regular would be better. In my neck of the woods the standard setting compound is USG Durabond. Durabond is almost 60% plaster of paris and has glues in it as well. Easy Sand is Durabond's lite version. When you drop a glob of Easy Sand on the floor and it dries, you can scrape it up with a spackle knife with little problem. When you drop a glob of Durabond on the floor, you might damage your spackle knife trying to scrape it up. For your purpose I would use the Proform Quickset if it is similar to Durabond.
> 
> Mix your Quickset so that it can squeeze out of the pastry bag, then squeeze it generously into the holes you have drilled, starting with those that are above the header, then do the holes over the header, taking care to get enough material in to fill up the space between the drywall and the header, taking care not to push on the drywall too much with the pastry bag. After doing this, lightly remove any mix sticking out of the holes with your finger so that no material is sticking out of the holes - otherwise it will be hard to sand down. Let this material harden and dry overnight. The next day your 2 pieces of drywall should not be able to bend in or out. Apply more Quiskset with a putty knife, making sure to fill the crack between the 2 sheets of drywall as well as any depressions left in the holes you filled the day before, making sure to skim the material tightly so you dont have to sand, and let that set. In a few hours you should be able to tape and finish, prime and paint.
> 
> ...


Do you do that in every unsupported joint between joist or studs.
Give me a break.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

Nealtw said:


> Do you do that in every unsupported joint between joist or studs.
> Give me a break.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj3KXLJshQw


No, I don't, I only do this on oddball jobs like the one presently at hand. The header is just a 1/4" away from the drywall, so instead of doing major surgery, I just pack the space between the header/stud and drywall seam with Durabond and let the Durabond set. When this is done the Durabond will be securely glued to both the drywall and the header.

I just reread post #8 that the header goes all the way up from the door to the ceiling, so they should be able to get Quickset all the way up between the drywall and the header, filling in the gap and glueing the drywall in place so that there will be no more bending of the drywall in or out. Packing Quickset into the crack will reinforce the drywall even more. I know drywaller contractors who pack Durabond between sheets of drywall for added strength BEFORE they do any taping.

This is simple to do once you get the hang of it. I am sure you know of a better way to do this, so I will come back and read what you advise.

siffleur

P.S. How does the video you posted relate to Pioneer Wife's problem?


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Nealtw said:


> If that seams opens again after that there is movement that should not be, it would indicate another problem.



Old fixer upper house and we get a few sonic booms and low flying choppers here, so that might open it up again...they rattle the windows pretty good!


Mainly the bottom edges are really flexing, top edges at ceiling are more stable. So we are going to put a screw on each of the drywall sides to the horizontal stud that is about 2 inches over the door frame, then paper tape and mud it. Hopefully that will steady the seam and keep it from cracking again.


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

siffleur said:


> Without photos or more information, I would remove the mesh tape and joint compound, then use a thin knife to slide between the drywall sheets and find out how high the header goes above the door and mark with a pencil. Then I would get a pastry bag ...
> 
> siffleur



Thanks! Will try this if we have trouble sinking some drywall screws into the horizontal stud above the door frame, since we have the photo to go by.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Old fixer upper house and we get a few sonic booms and low flying choppers here, so that might open it up again...they rattle the windows pretty good!
> 
> 
> Mainly the bottom edges are really flexing, top edges at ceiling are more stable. So we are going to put a screw on each of the drywall sides to the horizontal stud that is about 2 inches over the door frame, then paper tape and mud it. Hopefully that will steady the seam and keep it from cracking again.


 Yes it should be screwed to the sill above the door.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Thanks! Will try this if we have trouble sinking some drywall screws into the horizontal stud above the door frame, since we have the photo to go by.


First, let me say that I am not an expert on drywall, even though I have fixed various drywall problems over the last 40 or so years, often times using methods that some would consider unorthodox. Secondly, I think that if we all can get an accurate picture of exactly what is going on here, Nealtw (and perhaps others) might very well have better suggestions for what to do than I do.

Here is what I am picturing at this point:

There is a seam between 2 sheets of drywall about midway over your door frame that was taped with fiberglass mesh tape, mudded, then it cracked.

The area above your door frame is about 1 foot up to the ceiling.

The 2x4 stud at the ceiling is directly behind the drywall so that when a screw is put through the drywall at this point, it will not pull the drywall in towards the stud.

The 2x4 stud just above the door is recessed in about a 1/4" so that if you screw the drywall in on both sides at this point, the drywall will be pulled in a 1/4", making the drywall surface above the door frame uneven and bending in towards the lower middle just above the door jamb.

If this is not the case, please tell me where I am misunderstanding you.

If this is the case, then I would make the following observation. The 2 sheets of drywall that meet at the middle over the door jamb are flush against the 2x4 stud at the ceiling, but 1/4" away from the 2x4 stud that is just above the jamb. 

To prevent the 2 sections of drywall from pulling in when you screw each lower side of each section of drywall into the stud above the door jamb, you need to put a 1/4" shim in between the drywall and the stud. Since doing this would mean removing the drywall, I propose to drill a hole in the middle of the 2 sections of drywall that is slightly larder than 1/4" so that you can squeeze Quickset 45 into the hole using a pastry bag, wipe off any mud that sticks out and let harden and dry (preferably until the next day). The hardened and dried Quickset now functions as your 1/4" shim between the stud and the drywall. If there is enough glue in the Quickset, you might just go ahead and tape the seam. If in doubt, I would drill a hole into each side of the drywall into the stud behind it using a drill bit just slightly smaller than the shank of the drywall screws you are going to use. This will help prevent too much damage from the drywall screws breaking up any of the Quickset material behind the drywall. Why would I suggest this? Been there and it happened, so better safe than sorry.

Now your 2 sides of drywall are securely cemented and screwed to the upper and lower studs. Next, I would squeeze Quickset into the crack between the 2 sections of drywall and let set and dry until the next day before taping and mudding. Since you have the Quickset (and presuming that it is similar to USG Durabond) I would use that for the first coat to mud under and over the tape.

Take you time and don't rush things. You live here, so you can afford the time to do things right, like letting the QuickSet actaully set and dry.

Again, I am still (at the age of 63) still trying to learn more myself, so if anyone has a better method to correct this problem, I am all eyes to read it.

Good luck

siffleur


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

We were able to look at the photo before drywall was put up on the computer, enlarged it greatly and the header and studs are all even with each other. Lightly pushing on the drywall edges confirmed the header was right behind the drywall.


My husband found the bottom of the horizontal stud by running the drill bit up from the door frame in the space between the drywall edges. He drilled pilot holes about an inch above that and a little more from the ceiling. Then installed the drywall screws lightly. They snugged up with just a slight bow in the center area, so he installed 2 more screws midway and everything looks nice and flat, no movement or flexing at all now. :biggrin2:


Thank y'all for walking us through our options, gave us the confidence to proceed and have a back up plan if needed. 

Now to try hot mud on the taping and divots tomorrow....


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

Pioneer Wife said:


> We were able to look at the photo before drywall was put up on the computer, enlarged it greatly and the header and studs are all even with each other. Lightly pushing on the drywall edges confirmed the header was right behind the drywall.
> 
> 
> My husband found the bottom of the horizontal stud by running the drill bit up from the door frame in the space between the drywall edges. He drilled pilot holes about an inch above that and a little more from the ceiling. Then installed the drywall screws lightly. They snugged up with just a slight bow in the center area, so he installed 2 more screws midway and everything looks nice and flat, no movement or flexing at all now. :biggrin2:
> ...


Pioneer Wife, in your original post you mentioned the following regarding the drywall seam above the door jamb that cracked:

"Turns out the seam is not fastened/screwed down on either side. Both edges will flex well over a quarter of an inch back and forth."

It was because of this 1/4" flex that I recommended you squeeze Quickset through a hole in the seam to fill in the 1/4" gap between the drywall and the stud just above the door jamb (you eventually did mention that there was no gap between the drywall and the stud at the ceiling). If you had done this, then the drywall screws you installed just above the door jamb would not have pulled the drywall in, they would only have secured the drywall a bit more as the Quickset mud would have solidified and glued itself to both the stud and the drywall. I was worried that if you tried to screw the drywall in at the bottom you would bend the drywall too far and it would crack at some point. If it does eventually crack, this may be due to it having been over-flexed by screwing it in a 1/4" and bending it in the process. 

If you have not yet taped, you can still correct this potential problem by carefully drilling a 3/8" hole in the seem right between the 2 drywall screws that were screwed in, remove the 2 drywall screws, squeeze some QuickSet mud into the 3/8" hole, and let set overnight. The next day I would take a drill bit that is the thickness (or slightly less) of the drywall screw shank and drill through both drywall screw holes so that there is a hole going through the hardened QuickSet behind the drywall. This will help avoid cracking the hardened and dried Quickset material. 

Now, when you screw the 2 drywall screws back into the drywall, the drywall will not be pulled in a 1/4" and the risk of either drywall panel cracking in the future will be gone, at least from being bent in a 1/4" by the drywall screws.

You can further strengthen the seam where the 2 sheets of drywall meet by squeezing QuickSet mud into the seem with a 4" spackle knife, then skimming it smooth at the end so that there is no QuickSet mud protruding from the seem that needs to be sanded down later before you tape over it. 

siffleur


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## ront02769 (Nov 28, 2008)

Pretty standard where I am to just use a double two bye header set flush with the outside of the structure in an exterior 6” wall. The inside gets foamed with the rest of the house out level to where the rock will be. If for some reason there is a joint it is just fastened with longer screws.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

ront02769 said:


> Pretty standard where I am to just use a double two bye header set flush with the outside of the structure in an exterior 6” wall. The inside gets foamed with the rest of the house out level to where the rock will be. If for some reason there is a joint it is just fastened with longer screws.


How would any of what you said above have helped Pioneer Wife with her problem?

siffleur


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

Who did the drywall and mudding? Unless you did the work, you need to contact the drywall and plaster workers and have a discussion as to who was responsible for the poor job.


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

fireguy said:


> Who did the drywall and mudding? Unless you did the work, you need to contact the drywall and plaster workers and have a discussion as to who was responsible for the poor job.


fireguy, very good point. I wonder if Pioneer Wife will tell us why she and her husband didn't get the contractor back to fix this problem.

siffleur


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## fireguy (May 3, 2007)

siffleur said:


> fireguy, very good point. I wonder if Pioneer Wife will tell us why she and her husband didn't get the contractor back to fix this problem.
> 
> siffleur


First thing I think about when I hear about poor work is "Did they hire a licensed, bonded, insured contractor? Or did they hire the cheapest guy who was standing outside home cheapo?"


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## Pioneer Wife (Mar 28, 2009)

Hi Guys,

Quick update, been busy with mudding (went well!) and other outdoor summertime chores...

Yes, licensed, insured, bonded, very highly recommended. Also very busy, would be a week or two til they could get back to us. Seemed like with good advice, was something we could tackle and DIY. My husband thinks it was just an simple oversight, kinda like the few screws they missed in the subfloor. Easy for us to just pop a few more in. Not worth holding up my painting schedule that long if we could figure it out ourselves.

I'm an aircraft mechanic/inspector's daughter, taught to work on my own car at an early age. That and repairing barns and fencing as a horse trainer/farm mgr. makes me not afraid to try something if I can get good info and direction. Like from you guys. 

More later if y'all have some questions....

Thanks!


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## siffleur (Aug 19, 2013)

Pioneer Wife said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Quick update, been busy with mudding (went well!) and other outdoor summertime chores...
> 
> ...


Pioneer Wife, thanks for coming back to give some kind of explanation for why you did not call the original contractor back to fix his problem. That is more thn a lot if people do.

siffleur


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