# PVC pipes in new concrete slab



## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

ChiefVOL said:


> I plan to pour 4" concrete slab... I will have a tub, toilet and sink in the bathroom, a washing machine beside the water heater and a sink in the kitchen ...
> 
> Are there any special requirements for...


There are all sorts of "special requirements" for all manner of things.



> Can I tie all the drains from these together?


It all depends on HOW you do it (see those "special requirements").

When you're done it should look something like this:


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

This is a one shot deal, done wrong and your in deep dodo.
Hire a plumber to at least do the rough in.
Hire a real concrete finisher.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

TarheelTerp said:


> There are all sorts of "special requirements" for all manner of things.
> 
> It all depends on HOW you do it (see those "special requirements").
> 
> When you're done it should look something like this:


Thats a pretty decent layout but throw some dirt on top of those pipes.
I like to see 2-3" of good clean dirt between pipes and concrete myself. Concrete will work its way through rock pretty easily making things tough down the road if repairs are needed.
Also wrap you pipes with "sill seal" where they pass through concrete.


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

joecaption said:


> This is a one shot deal, done wrong and your in deep dodo.
> Hire a plumber to at least do the rough in.
> Hire a real concrete finisher.


Unfortunately, I plan on doing all the work myself. With all the professional advise I plan on receiving here, I hope to succeed. With proper placement of the upturns on each individual PVC pipe and proper glueing, I think this is straight forward. I will determing the proper size for each drain pipe (help). I suppose I am naive about finishing the concrete slab myself. I will obtain some help in finishing - probably in forming as well. I will be installing a dry-stack cinder block wall directly on top of the slab - again by myself. Please alert me as to specific problems I might encounter installing the pre-plumbing.

Thanks a bunch


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## TarheelTerp (Jan 6, 2009)

plummen said:


> Thats a pretty decent layout but...


Not my work. First image google offered me that was close to the idea I wanted to convey.

ChiefVOL: Hire a REAL plumber. Let HIM call the shots.
Offer to be his bull labor trench digger and dummy end of tape holder.

This level of work is not for a rookie learning their way.
Hint: The DIYers who could answer your questions will mostly choose to hire it out.

Besides which the "technical" time you need to pay for isn't that many hours.


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

plummen said:


> Thats a pretty decent layout but throw some dirt on top of those pipes.
> I like to see 2-3" of good clean dirt between pipes and concrete myself. Concrete will work its way through rock pretty easily making things tough down the road if repairs are needed.
> Also wrap you pipes with "sill seal" where they pass through concrete.


Thanks Plummen, What size drain pipes do I need for the toilet, sinks, tub and washing machine?


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

TarheelTerp said:


> Not my work. It was the first image google offered me that was close to the idea I wanted to convey.
> 
> ChiefVOL: Hire a REAL plumber. Let HIM call the shots.
> Offer to be his bull labor trench digger and dummy end of tape holder.
> ...


Thanks, Yea that makes sense - shouldn't take long if I have the material on hand, trenches dug, etc.. You are right - it's a one shot deal


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

TarheelTerp said:


> Not my work. It was the first image google offered me that was close to the idea I wanted to convey.
> 
> OP: Hire a REAL plumber and be his bull labor.
> Let HIM call the shots.


Thats good,I didnt want to ask about those 2 45s coming off that 4" wye! :laughing:


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

ChiefVOL said:


> Thanks Plummen, What size drain pipes do I need for the toilet, sinks, tub and washing machine?


Do you have access to fax machine?
Im no good at drawing lines on a computer,but if you can fax me a copy of your rough floor plan and dimensions I can fax you the pipe sizes :laughing:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

I now completely confident in your advise Plummen


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

I am poor - no fax. I have been trying to design the floor plan myself. Don't have any good software. I will see if I can figure out how to attach my document here - I haven't seen a way yet. Since you on a computer, is their a way for me to email you my floor plans. My email is [email protected] - this way you only have reveal your address to me. My diagram is to scale - at least as good as I can achieve. This is really nice of you Plummen!


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Im retired now for the 2nd time,but i still do lots of stuff mostly because i dont know how to play golf like all my retired buddies! :laughing:


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

If you can figure out how to post your floor plan and the dimensions of the house/rooms,we can size it up for ya! :thumbsup:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Plummen, My email is [email protected]. If you will send me your address, I will send my floor plan document to you. It is to scale - as best as I can do. I really appreciate your time and effort!


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Ill send you an email :thumbsup:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Waiting on the Postman, with wings on his back!


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

I sent you a pm on here with my adress,check your messages :thumbsup:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks - I have less than 20 messages, so I am not allowed to respond. I have your address and will mail my floor plans to you tomorrow. Wish they were more professional, but I hope you get the jest of the plan, In case it matters, I should not have to go more than 50 feet befor I tie into the city sewer with these drain pipes. You are an Angel in my eyes!!!


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Im sure ive seen worse! :laughing:
The worst one i remember ever getting was for a bar/restaraunt ,i seem to remember that place being approx 10,000 sq ft.
Anyway they gave me a piece of paper saying the scale was 1" was approximately 10'! 
I asked them if they could narrow it down just a little but they didnt have a clue,in their defense the cities electrical inspector at the time didnt know what a gfci was either! :laughing:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm pretty ignorant, but at least I know a ground fault circuit interrupter! While I have your attention, if it matters, I should only have to carry the drain pipes 50' or so from the house to the city sewer system. I have never built anything before. I did work a couple years as peon electrician on construction sites so I have SEEN a lot of what I want to do. By trade, I am an Environmental Chemist, University of Tennessee. Due to drinking problems, I have not worked much in the past several years. I am now, and have been, in an Alcohol Rehabilitation program for the past 18 months. Haven't drank a drop and don't plan to. I am 54 years old and completly broke. I have a small piece of property in Dunlap, TN. 75 years ago, my grandfather laid two foundations on this piece of property. My Uncle has lived on one for the past 70 years. I hope to build on the other in the near future - hence doing all the work myself. the cinder block foundation is 40' x 25'. I am hoping the blocks have been poured with concrete, although I plan on pouring the slab over the foundation. Does this make sense? On the south 25' wall, I am installing a passive heated cinder block Trombe wall. I want to install a solar heated wall collector on the roof, plumbed into my water heater. Unless some lady feels very sorry for me, I will be living alone - except for cats and dogs, so 50 gallons a day should suffice. Trying to keep my electic bill as low as possible. We are in the hills of Tennessee, so I am going to get a small pot bellied stove for the winter. Should be all I need. Hope to keep electric bill below $50/month. Looks like my SS check will be only $700.00/mo if I retire at 62, $950/mo at 66 1/2. Guess I'll work till 66- that is if I can find a job. Anyway, this is why I am trying to figure out how to build this 750 sq ft home myself. I think I can do the slab for $1,200 - 1000 sq ft, 4" thick. Does this sound reasonable? Probably have to hire someone to finish it cause I don't have a clue - that's probable another $200 - forming and finishing. Gonna drystack the cinder block walls, then fill with grout. One step at a time. Get the slab poured with the plumbing and electrical conduit in place. Thanks for all your help


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Ive got no problem helping someone trying to help themselves,Ive plumbed/wired a lot of habitat for humanity houses in the past.
If you were closer id come down there and help you with it.
As far as the concrete goes you might want to post that over in the carpentry or construction forum,might have better luck


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

I know you would help! I will settle for the advice of a wise old owl. Thanks for everything, I really appreciate it. I hope I can figure out how to PM you in the future.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

As far as the electrical goes i wouldnt think youd have much of that in your floor,id bring the service in on whichever side was closest to a pole with the meter socket between 4-5' centered on outside wall depending on what local codes you have and mount service panel directly behind inside of house.
From there id run everything through the walls/attic as needed to feed everything 
Once i get your drawings ill help you figure electric service also


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

ChiefVOL said:


> I am poor -


Do you at least have enough to buy a "DIY Guide to Plumbing" from Home Depot or Lowes? At least that will give you a good grasp of plumbing concepts so you then know what questions to ask. While you're there, pick up an electric guide also. Good investment. 

B


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## JeepNick (Oct 27, 2011)

Chief,

I recently began a 314 square foot addition on my home in Arizona. A good portion of the addition is a bathroom with shower, tub, double lav and a toilet.

Like you, I wanted to save money and do with work myself. I am not in construction (or any trade) as a profession - I sit behind a desk all day shuffling paper. However, I'm very ambitious and pretty handy with tools and building. I'm also a perfectionist, which means I pay attention to detail and I want everything to be just right. I bring that up, because for a DIY'er to successfully complete large, technical jobs (such as a sanitary drain system) you will need to persevere to find correct information, diligent in doing the work the right way the first time, and patient enough to take your time and not make mistakes.

I spent two months drawing my plans and studying code requirements in my area. I keep my city's residential code book in my bookmarks and I refer to it often.

Getting to plumbing - I installed my own drain system for my addition and tied it in to the existing drain on my property that leads to the city sewer. This is a job that many said wasn't DIY. But I took my time with it, laid everything out, checked and double checked everything, etc. Its easy to take your time when you have plenty of it. And thats my situation - I have time, but I don't have a ton of money - Hence the DIY nature of my project.

A great plumbing resource is the terrylove.com plumbing forum. But don't go there expecting someone to hold your hand through this and answer all your questions. Go there and search and read and learn. When you feel armed with enough information to proceed, THEN you can ask specific questions. Otherwise you will get nothing but "hire a professional" as a response. As written by Terry Love the plumber himself, in a post I read on his forum, (not verbatim) "The right homeowner can do a better plumbing job than many plumbers out there."

You say that you dont have any code requirements where you are building. I'd say you should still follow minimum code so that what you build will last and work the way it should. Some basics in MY area include:

- Min 1/4" grade per foot on horizontal pipes.
- 3" or 4" pipe for toilet.
- 1.5" pipe for bathroom sinks (Lavs).
- 1.5" pipe for tubs
- 2" pipe for shower
- Two way clean out outside at house 

Some other common tidbits:

- No sanitary T for verital to horizontal runs. Horizontal to vertical ONLY.
- No horizontal turns greater than 45 degrees without a cleanout.
- No underground turns greater than 45 degrees without a cleanout (unless you use the appropriate long sweep fitting for a vertical to hotizontal only).
- Everything has to have a trap! (Toilets have their own built in trap).
- Everything has to be vented!
- Proper venting is tricky in bathrooms - Venting that is set up wrong can cause a toilet flush to suck the water right out of a sink P-trap (or any other p-trap) letting sewer gases into the home.
- Underground pipe must be "shaded" prior to filling in the area with dirt/fill. Shading is where you hard pack your fill material (I used dirt) under and around the sides of the pipe so that just the top 20-25" of the pipe is visible. This keeps the pipe from sagging/settling and causing backups, etc. later on.
- Water mast test your system before you bury it and especially before you pour concrete over it. Find any leaks now and fix before its too late.

Some things I learned the hard way:
- Driving nails into your drain pipe is bad! (oops!!)
- Dry fitting pipes is good, for basic layout aid, but the dimensions change when you glue, so plan on making stuff long and cutting it to length as you go.
- When laying your drains and vents, plan where your wall studs (or concrete blocks) will go and make sure the vent pipe that will run up into the wall wont intersect a stud or anything else.
- Everything will take 2-3 times as long as you think it will.

There is a ton of information out there. For more localized codes, I'd suggest looking online for the building department in your nearest big city and search their website for their residential building code. It can be like reading a foreign language at first, but once you learn to navigate it, it becomes easier. Having local information is a really good idea. For instance, my area does not hard freeze in the winter - So there is no frost depth to worry about. Other areas may require pipes be buried 2-3 feet down, while even other areas may require 6 feet...8? who knows? A word on safety - you mentioned connecting to the city sewer...My city sewer connection is about 8 feet down. Digging and working in/around trenches that deep (or even 4-5 feet deep) can be extremely dangerous. I'd hire a pro for that portion if it were me.

When you have specific questions and are armed with more information, I'd be happy to try and help you with my limited knowledge.

Good Luck!


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

I cannot begin to thank you enough for your response. I will study the terrylove.com plumbing forum before I ask any more questions, although you have answered many. Wouldn't have thought of the dryfitting vs glued joints - very smart. Like yourself, I have time and NO money. I will spend many, many hours reading before I attempt anything. Again, I greatly appreciate your time and thoughtful input.


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## JeepNick (Oct 27, 2011)

You are welcome.

Also a few other drain pipe sizes I didnt mention because I forgot you were doing a laundry.

Laundry stacks are 2" pipe.
Utility sinks also 2" as are kitchen sinks.


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

JeepNick said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> Also a few other drain pipe sizes I didnt mention because I forgot you were doing a laundry.
> 
> ...


 
JeepNick, since I plan to tie all the drains together, and the largest is the 3" or 4" for the toilet, I assume I will need to run the largest pipe size to the terminal at City sewage? Thanks a million for you help!!


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## JeepNick (Oct 27, 2011)

ChiefVOL said:


> JeepNick, since I plan to tie all the drains together, and the largest is the 3" or 4" for the toilet, I assume I will need to run the largest pipe size to the terminal at City sewage? Thanks a million for you help!!


You'll have a main line that goes from the house to the city sewer. That line will be your 4" line (or whatever size you need, but I'd say min. 3-4"). In a perfect world, you'd run that line from the sewer straight to your toilet, then have other drains tie in later down the line using wye connections.

The slope or "drop per foot" is extremely important. Not enough and you get standing water and solids building up. Too much and your water will drain, but the solids will remain. Oooh, I rhymed!:jester:


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Wouldn't have thought you could have too much slope - I sure have a lot to learn. Thanks again for your insightful advice.


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## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes you definately dont want solids to seperate and start building up in sewer


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## Beepster (Oct 19, 2009)

ChiefVOL said:


> Wouldn't have thought you could have too much slope - I sure have a lot to learn. Thanks again for your insightful advice.


Me neither. I learned something new today. If 1" per 4 ' is minimum slope, what then would you consider maximum slope?

B


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey beepster, that was my thought as well. I would have considered a 100% drop optimum - i.e. straight down. I have been informed that my connection to the city sewer may be as deep as 8 ft. I was shocked, didn't know it was that deep. Probably have to have a pro install that part. I can't even dig 8 ft deep. My drain from the slab to the city sewer will probably be only 50' long. Plenty of room for whatever slope is desirable. If you, or anyone , knows of a formula or rule of thumb for drain slope, please advise; Otherwise, I suppose 1/4 "/ft is suitable. THANKS!


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

Just talked to a couple of my "old-tymer", plumber friends -
They suggest trying to maintain a slope of 1/4" per foot for a 3" - 4" drain -
is considered the "sweet-spot".
(1/2" per foot the Max. - they suggested against that, though)
If you're going to have a vertical drop - don't use a "tight", 90 at the bottom 
Use a "wide" 90 (sweep).
I'm sure "plummen" will take everything into consideration!
Good luck!

rossfingal

Just remembered this - the last one we did - the city (Aurora, Ill.) wanted 3" (min.) inside and
6" on the outside.
Remember - "Clean-Outs"!!


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

So kind of you to take the time to respond rossfingal. I trust the ol tymers more than anyone - nothing like experience. Looks like I will have a several foot drop to connect to the city sewer. I understand the concept of a wide sweep 90. THANKS. I am so excited to attempt this project. I have so much to learn. Gives me something to do, a goal, and keeps me out of trouble.


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## rossfingal (Mar 20, 2011)

No problem! 
Remember - it's not a "job" - it's an "adventure"!
"trouble"?? - don't worry about that!
Usually, there will be some kind of "trouble" down the road! 
("Murphy's Law" - always, "kicks-in"!) 

As far as the slab -
as stated above - post a thread in the "Building & Construction", sub-forum.
A number of very, knowledgeable "crete" people there!


rossfingal


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Chief, I usually don't look in this part of the forum but for some strange reason I did today. I live in Chattanooga, about an hour from where you're going to build. I do have quite a bit of experience in building and will be glad to tell you anything I possible can, I wish I could help but my old body is shot now.

I have plumbed a few houses but am no expert there, I have wired quite a few houses but am no expert there but I always passed inspection including changing out panels. I have done less plumbing than electrical. I didn't have a problem plumbing a house but have never hooked to the sewer, in west Tennessee where I am from, you have to have a licensed plumber to hook in and you may here also.

Pouring your slab, I would highly advise letting a pro do that, it is not an easy job nor is it easy to get the slab level without hills and dips. Too many hills and dips and you will have a lot of problems with your walls, especially the high spots. When I was building I told my concrete men I wanted it close, I didn't want to have a puddle cover a dime after it rained and most times it was that way.

Did you say you were going to have block walls for your house or did I misunderstand? The reason I asked is you might want to reconsider block walls. If they aren't insulated and insulated well they will sweat and you will have mold problems, also it is hard to heat and cool a block house. It is hard to do most anything construction wise with block walls. Electrical, installing windows and doors, connecting the roof and joists unless you fill the blocks and use bolts. 

The first thing you will need to do before starting your plumbing is lay out your house, batter board and string it so you will get all your plumbing on grade and in the right places. You can't know where your walls are and can't know where the plumbing goes without having a lay out, not just outside walls but inside walls also (at least where the plumbing goes in a wall and weight bearing walls).

Here is just a thought for you. When I was building I put a chase or 2" PVC pipe in the slab to run my water pipes through. If there was ever a leak all you had to do is pull the water pipe and replace instead of busting a slab to fix.

When you post hole 4 foot on grid for the slab, be careful not to hit any of your plumbing pipes, you can flag the pipes so you will know where they are. Sorry, I got carried away here, long post.


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey jiju1943, thanks for the response. Yea I am just across signal Mtn. The are several reasons for the block walls. First, and foremost, I am attempting to build the house (only 750 sq ft ) to be solar heated. The 24 ft wall facing you (south) will be cinder block, filled with grout, to serve a a heat mass - my thrombe wall. A glass wall will be built just outside this block wall to collect heat on the block wall. The other three block walls will be insulated with some yet to be determined synthetic material. Second, I am not a very good carpenter and from what i am reading, dry-stack cinder block walls are relatively simple to install and even stronger than mortered walls. As for framing for the windows, I have an awful lot to learn. The West side of the house will have a lot of glass just for viewing since the south wall is completely blocked in. I will also have a small pot-bellied stove for really cold nights in the winter. I am 54 now, poor and can't wait to come to Sequatchie Valley. I am trying to learn all I can and hopefully in the near future I can begin construction. There will be no huge hurry since mondy is in short supply. Build the slabe first with roughed in plumbing and electrical. Then the walls. I have no idea how to begin on a roof!! Maybe you can advise me on th electrical. I believe the only 220v will be the stove ( water heater?) Placing electrical outlets in either the wall or floor is going to be a trick - much thought and design will have to be given here. I do not want to use wire mold - not very original. I suppose wall outlets and switches is the way to go. Now I am the one rambling. 

Thanks for your time and advise. What part of Chattanooga are you in?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ChiefVOL said:


> Hey jiju1943, thanks for the response. Yea I am just across signal Mtn. The are several reasons for the block walls. First, and foremost, I am attempting to build the house (only 750 sq ft ) to be solar heated. The 24 ft wall facing you (south) will be cinder block, filled with grout, to serve a a heat mass - my thrombe wall. A glass wall will be built just outside this block wall to collect heat on the block wall. The other three block walls will be insulated with some yet to be determined synthetic material. Second, I am not a very good carpenter and from what i am reading, dry-stack cinder block walls are relatively simple to install and even stronger than mortered walls. As for framing for the windows, I have an awful lot to learn. The West side of the house will have a lot of glass just for viewing since the south wall is completely blocked in. I will also have a small pot-bellied stove for really cold nights in the winter. I am 54 now, poor and can't wait to come to Sequatchie Valley. I am trying to learn all I can and hopefully in the near future I can begin construction. There will be no huge hurry since mondy is in short supply. Build the slabe first with roughed in plumbing and electrical. Then the walls. I have no idea how to begin on a roof!! Maybe you can advise me on th electrical. I believe the only 220v will be the stove ( water heater?) Placing electrical outlets in either the wall or floor is going to be a trick - much thought and design will have to be given here. I do not want to use wire mold - not very original. I suppose wall outlets and switches is the way to go. Now I am the one rambling.
> 
> Thanks for your time and advise. What part of Chattanooga are you in?


I live about a mile from where is called Moccasin Bend of the Tennessee River and Lookout mountain just off I-24, west Chattanooga. This side of Signal Mountain is about 20 minutes from our house. 

Man it is beautiful on a frosty morning coming over the mountain looking down in Sequatchie Valley and the smoke coming out of some the farm houses chimneys there.

The roof is no problem, it is just a matter of doing. Running the electrical isn't a problem either if you know where it is going before laying the blocks, it can be stubbed up and kept inside the blocks. The holes for the Receptacles can be cut in the blocks also, it just makes it so much easier, to fish the wire, you will see what I mean. You will want at least a 100 Amp service and the wire is a lot easier than pulling 00 wire for a 200 amp service and cheaper also. The county furnishes the meter base, at least they use to.

I will PM you my email address and if you can get me a rough sketch of what you want I can draw it up for you. I have a 3D Architect drawing program which is easy to use.

I like the idea of solar energy, I looked into that a number of years ago and it still fascinates me. I am not familiar with the dry stack blocks so I will need some brushing up on that. Are you going to try for solar heated water also. It shouldn't be a problem with your mass wall.


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## JeepNick (Oct 27, 2011)

Reasoning behind not having "too much" drop in your pipe is that the water will rush down and drain leaving the solids behind. Yuck.

If you have need for more drop, you can add one or more vertical drops using long 90's. Better to keep those to a minimum so the line isn't all twisty-turny in case you ever need it cleaned out, etc.


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## ChiefVOL (Jan 12, 2012)

Now you're talking!! I have dreamed of this home for 30 years. I went to School at UTC, when Jimmy Carter and Al GORE were so big into Solar Enery and alternative fuel sources. If only our Country had pursued these avenues, we would never have had the Irag and Afgan wars. Our cars would be running on Moonshine and Global Warming would not exist. I hope to do my part, if only because it makes sense money wise


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