# Wavy Ceiling



## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Unless the pics are deceiving that looks like too much for mud to fix. I suspect either they used drywall that was too thin or moisture has degraded the drywall [made it weak]


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

I think it was drywall that was too thin, based on the age of the house and my location. I live in Denver, so it's very dry. Pictures are deceiving because of the lighting, but I should try to measure it later. How much depth is generally too much? I'm not too worried about it if that's not an option, I'll just leave it and hope that lighting mitigates most of it.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Let us know how much it sags. If it's as bad as it looks and tearing it out and hanging new drywall isn't an option - I'd paint it with some flat white ceiling paint, the ceiling will still have the sags but fresh flat paint won't highlight it as much.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Ceilings look better with light from lamps instead of ceiling lights.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yours is a classic case of why popcorn or texture was put on your ceiling. They threw the drywall up, did some minimal finish work on the seams and then sprayed popcorn on top to hide it all. It is not unusual to find a bit of a mess when you take the popcorn off. I warn my customers ahead of time to be prepared for the worst when taking popcorn off.

Also, it appears that they didn't even stagger the seams. That's why you have that "droopy" area there in the middle. If I had a vote, I would vote for taking the drywall down and putting new up and finishing it correctly.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

In new construction a smooth ceiling cost 5 times the cost of popcorn.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

If you can tape and finish drywall somewhat, I would say, get a sheetrock saw and jab a small hole in that ceiling, and figure out what thickness of sheetrock you have. If it's 1/2" thick, screw the whole ceiling off all over and get the rock tightened back up, then you can figure out what needs done ( this step isn't usually easy). If it's 3/8" thick, I would tear it all off and start over, because it's not strong enough to stay flat by itself, let alone with a bunch of mud added to it. 

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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

That has to come down and be replaced, sorry to say.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks for the advice! At it's deepest point, it's a little less than 1/4" of sagging. 

For me, I just hate the look of popcorn, but am ok with the imperfections. I'll do a little work to improve it as much as I can, but redoing the whole ceiling would be more than I'd want to do for the basement. 

Is there any point in trying to fill it? Or is it going to weigh too much? It seems like most of the mud would be over the screws and even a little might make it look a lot better. 

I'm planning to replace the ceiling lights with fans that have lights that point down and also have a couple lamps around the room, so hopefully that will minimize it a bit.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Just do as I advised in my post, rescrew the ceiling, and then fix the joints. A quarter inch is nothing to fill. You can easily fill over 2 inches thick. 

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## ClarenceBauer (Mar 4, 2005)

To fill the low areas you can use a light weight plaster base mixed with any ready mix joint compound use 1/2 joint compound & 1/2 perlited plaster base ( structo-Lite or Gypso - Lite ) use enough water to make workable. This mixture can be applied up to 1/2 inch in one pass & will set hard. Than skim a very tight coat of joint compound for a smooth finish.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Sorry I'm new to doing most of this. Do you mean to take down the drywall that's sagging and re-screw it? I'm looking for resources, but finding different things.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

ClarenceBauer said:


> To fill the low areas you can use a light weight plaster base mixed with any ready mix joint compound use 1/2 joint compound & 1/2 perlited plaster base ( structo-Lite or Gypso - Lite ) use enough water to make workable. This mixture can be applied up to 1/2 inch in one pass & will set hard. Than skim a very tight coat of joint compound for a smooth finish.


Thanks, I think I'll try this!


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

No. I'm saying drive new screws in the sheetrock to tighten it back up. It's likely sagging from age or poor nailing, or cheap nails. Screw off each ceiling joist with a screw every 12 inches. 1 1/4" black coarse thread drywall screws will do.
You won't truly know what shape that ceiling is in till you tighten it up. I've pulled up old popcorn ceilings up to 3/4" before - many times.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

t.carpenter00 said:


> No. I'm saying drive new screws in the sheetrock to tighten it back up. It's likely sagging from age or poor nailing, or cheap nails. Screw off each ceiling joist with a screw every 12 inches. 1 1/4" black coarse thread drywall screws will do.
> You won't truly know what shape that ceiling is in till you tighten it up. I've pulled up old popcorn ceilings up to 3/4" before - many times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Gotcha. It's actually sagging between the screws.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Yes it is. And every ceiling does that. Even with 5/8" sheetrock. That's the reason for digging a hole to find out why. But it will still benefit from a good tightening down. 

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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Before you bother with screws see if you can push the drywall up any. Might want to take a small board to push against so you don't put too much pressure on one spot. Screws will help if the drywall isn't tight against the joists. Screws by themselves won't draw the drywall tight - it needs to be pushed in place first.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Ok, I think I see what you both mean, but let me make sure.

I should take some of the screws out and push up on the drywall to straighten it then replace the screws?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

You shouldn't need to remove the existing screws/nails although they might need to be screwed in or knocked in further when you are done. You want to push the drywall tight against the joist and then add screws to hold it tight.


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

It sounds like you will be making holes up there for more lights or fans, maybe you should make one of those holes and use it to see what's happening up there.


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Mark sr.'s idea. Try pushing up, but put the 2x across the joists, NOT along the joists. Push up with some 2x as braces. Don't take out the fasteners. If the screw or the nail heads pop out, sink them, but add new screws further away and carefully countersink just a bit. If you have thin drywall, too deep countersink is meaningless.


But I would vote for overlaying the existing drywall. You don't have to remove the existing. Another 3/8 layer and across from the way it's running now, and overlap the joints. Since you went for removing the popcorn, it's time to try joint compounding and sanding. There was the first time for me too, and I didn't ruin it.:smile:


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Ok, I'll try pushing the drywall up and rescrewing. So, the existing screws won't restrict the drywall movement when lifting? 

I would consider another layer, but they're already 8' ceilings so I'd prefer the imperfections over the slightly lower ceiling. 

What are the consequences of just trying to fill the 1/8" sag?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

If the drywall is stout enough and secured well there should be no issues filling in with joint compound but if the drywall is weak - there could be problems.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and cut a hole in the ceiling this afternoon and see how thick it is and what's above it. I was hoping to have this done in a couple days, but I'll just push back my timeline to make sure I'm considering all my options. 

Is a 2" x 2" square hole a good size to cut? 

I have very basic questions!


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

That said, depending on what I find, is just removing the few pieces of sagging drywall and replacing those ever an option?


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Sure it is. But I doubt it will do any good. Between pushing up the rock and finding out how thick it is, you'll likely have your bases covered. Because, as we said, if it's 3/8,thefes nothing you can do for it. And if it's 1/2 then it's not flat against the joists. If it is contacting the joists, then you likely have one that's bowed badly. If that's the problem, you'll just mud the bow out. The last possibility is that the joist is cracked. We don't need to go down that road yet.
As far as your hole goes, it only needs to be big enough to figure out the sheetrock thickness. One of the guys suggested cutting your light box holes in- excellent idea.

Don't do any more work than you have to. 

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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Cool, I was planning to just replace the current light fixtures with low profile ceiling fans with lights. I'll pull one of those out tonight and see what I see.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Ok, I see what you mean now. I pushed up on it some more and can see where the current screws start to pop out. And another section that I assumed was screwed in, seems like they didn't put screws in very often. 

As for rescrewing, is it necessary for me to remove the tape, or can I just use a studfinder to find the center and put new screws in over then mud over it?


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## ChuckF. (Aug 25, 2013)

A big enough hole that you can stick your phone up there and take a series of pictures and maybe a bare-bulb troublelight with an LED bulb in it, laid to the side.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

If you are seeing that much sag, I'd peel the tape on any butt joint you find, before screwing it back down. Once you have all the sheetrock screwed back up, then go sink all of the nails/ screws that poked out. Then you can retape the butt joints ( paper tape only please, trust me on this) and then fill all the screws as normal. 

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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

You'll know more as you work on it but you _might_ get by without pulling the tape. Personally I'd try without removing the tape first, if it goes ok that's a step you can skip.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

So, when you start driving screws and you start seeing nail heads pop out of the sheetrock, look at the diameter of the head. If it's a small 1/4" round head, just pull it and replace it with a screw. If it's larger diameter than that, then after you put screws near it, you can drive it back in.

BTW, when you start driving screws in to the butt joints, if they pull up at all, or if they crack, you have just compromised the integrity of that finished joint. It will have to be retaped , and fixed. If that happens, you will be adding deprh to it by retaping it, right? If that happens to me ( and now I can tell if it will just by the look of the joint) I'll peel the tape, screw it down, and re tape it and refinish it, without the extra depth.
Sometimes just driving screws into the tape causes the tape to pull up in a cone around the screw. That can be a challenge to finish a joint out with those speed bumps in it. If that happens, pull your screws, and peel the tape. 
That's why I suggest that step.if it needed. 

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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

So the current drywall is 3/8". I didn't get around to taking a picture, but I did rescrew a couple areas and it was a drastic improvement. I tried to rescrew another area and was pretty careful not to break the tape when I screwed it in, but when I let go it broke through the screw. Any advice on that? 

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the improvement and will start texturing it soon, deciding on how much work I want to do. I'm tempted to skim coat it, largely just to try and see how I do. Is that worth doing? 

I'm going to skim one wall to get it as flat as possible for a movie projector screen, so maybe I should do that first to practice before going on to the ceiling?


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Also, that other wall was covered with glued on newspaper clippings. Scraped off as much as possible and plan to skim coat over the remaining glue as it's not coming off without tearing off paper, unless anyone else has an idea. I have no idea what kind of glue they used.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

> I tried to rescrew another area and was pretty careful not to break the tape when I screwed it in, but when I let go it broke through the screw. Any advice on that?


The drywall has been bowed too long and doesn't want to flatten out. Misting it with water might help.


> I have no idea what kind of glue they used.


Wallpaper adhesive is water soluble and should wash off with a little effort but it sounds like it might have been something solvent based in which case if it doesn't scrape or sand off - it's there to stay.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

mark sr said:


> The drywall has been bowed too long and doesn't want to flatten out. Misting it with water might help.
> 
> Wallpaper adhesive is water soluble and should wash off with a little effort but it sounds like it might have been something solvent based in which case if it doesn't scrape or sand off - it's there to stay.


Awesome, I'll try misting it with water and seeing if that helps. If not, this looks MUCH better with just the few screws. With improved lighting it should be a lot less noticeable. Thanks!!


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

You might also try taking some boards and propping them against the ceiling to hold the drywall flat until it dries back out.


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## alexanderbright (Dec 11, 2018)

Oh, good idea. I'll try that while I work on some other things. Any suggestions on propping them up? I can take some old 2x4s and cut them to fit from the floor up.


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## t.carpenter00 (Jan 23, 2018)

Don't waste your time. 3/8 is a very hard, brittle mix the will not respond to water. It will not bow like 1/2 will. All you will succeed in doing is softne the glue and possibly delaminate it. It's been that way too long. That's why I said that if it's 3/8,you get what you get. If you skim it, it better be very thin, or you'll just increase the bow.

You have to understand, all ceilings bow, you just don't notice it with 1/2 and 5/8.

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