# Street noise soundproofing



## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

I put Andersen, Low e, insulated glass windows in my brothers house in about 2000. It cut road noise down to a whisper. He lives on a county road with a fairly constant traffic count per day. He has the original 1915 front door with a full glass storm, circa 1990.
If you need more, they make windows for areas surrounding airports.
Ron


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

First thing is to get a sound db meter and record the noise levels through out the day.

We have just double pane windows with storms in our house, which when closed, the noise level drops tremendously. Air as an insulator works better than using materials haphazardly.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Yeah, measuring is already in-progress step. I actually do happen to have a sound meter handy. Thing is, our house is 2 houses (and that's row houses) down from the stop light. So, you get lots of idling cars with stereo cranked up. And when bus goes from idle you really feel.  I’ve seen spikes over 80db so far but need to measure more. I also can clearly hear people talk on the sidewalk waiting for the bus.

I see where both of you heading and agree that it's easier to handle windows. The windows I mentioned earlier are installed as a 2nd set of interior windows, essentially creating that air buffer. Additionally, City of Alexandria here won't let me change windows w/o an approval on a 1890 house. So, having those other windows installed on interior side takes care of that issue.

I still am not sure about the door though. When low frequency hits it I can not only feel it in the house in the living room but I do also feel the door resonating it a bit via vibration. That's why I think taking care of windows won't be enough. So, not sure what to do about it. Seeh.

So, what do you guys think about my door options – replace or leave and install storm door? Is there any way to figure out what’s gonna be effective before doing any work.

Thanks again.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

Can you even put a storm door on the house?
Ron


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

From the stand point of getting it approved? Yes, I can. Will have to get a permit first though. Looks like review board favors open type storm doors, ie with more glass to have as much of the original door see-through as possible.

My concern about storm door is basically overall "flimsiness" of it and still having some noise bleeding. Additionally having just a regular glass there makes me wonder if it's gonna help any or not.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

We have Larson doors on our house, and they cut down on noise, and are not flimsy at all. The front one has the screen that disappears when you close the upper glass, but in your area, the review board may require a one piece glass. As for the windows, find out which companies & type they recommend. You may want to head up sometime to Worcester Ma. where a lot of homes have been redone, or even since you live in Alexandra, look at some of the more historical ones and get some ideas from those.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Been measuring it on and off. When cars swing by it registers in low-to-mid 60s dB. When bus stops by I've seen it in the 66-72 dB range. In some rare cases I've seen it spike to 80-82 dB.

Thanks for the Larson recommendation. I'll definitely check it out.

Looks like I have West Windows Corporation storm windows installed here. They don't provide STC ratings on those. When I called and asked they said they don't rate it. Not a good sign.

I've also come across this company called Mon-Ray, which makes soundproof storm windows and doors STC rated around 30, which is better than double pane windows.

So, my new revised plan is: instead of adding interior soundproof windows, replace the existing storm windows with better and higher STC rated ones; and add a decent STC rated storm door before attempting to replace the front door. Any thoughts if I'm on the right track? Thanks again.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

That is not bad. That is the norm for a office space.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm one of those extremely sensitive to the noise people. My wife could care less btw. So, it is rather bad for me. When people waiting for the bus yap non stop, car with cranked up music or something like a bike stops by it's as if it's right there in our living room.

So, I'm hoping that the first step of replacing storm windows/door with the quality ones would make a perceived difference. I’m hopping it’ll make a difference, cause if not, then that’ll be a plain waste of money.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Getting the windows replaced, closing up air leaks through outlets, switches, ceiling fixtures, holes from attic & basement through walls, and defiantly stopping the flow of noise through the windows & doors would also help. If you can get the outside walls spray foamed, and same with the basement to help stop the transmission of noise, that would help also.

Check with some of the recording studios in your area, especially if they are in historical buildings to get ideas from their engineers how to stop the noise, same with the Worship Arts ministers for some of your local churches.


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## valueremodeling (Oct 26, 2010)

Hi SM05,

I happened to stubble upon your post. Everyone here has offered you good advise. However being in the business for the past 20+ years I can give you a bit of professional perspective. Start by finding out if your home falls in a designated district. Many cities / towns designate areas as historic districts and only permit certain types of products which can be used. 
If you can, consider using vinyl or wood replacement / new construction windows with Low"E" / Argon Gas. Try to get the lowest U-Value and SHGC Value you can get. For instance the replacement windows shown here will do a great job at sound proofing your home. By Installing the Argon Gas, it creates a invisible wall which helps deflect the noise. Hope this helps!


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

gregzoll, thanks for the suggestions. I've got a tiny window to the basement almost at the ground level below the offending door/windows I'm trying to soundproof. It's not sealed at all. I recall inspector saying that since furnace and water heater are in the basement it won't hurt to have a little air getting in. I'm sure it does wonders to sound transmission as well.

valueremodeling, thanks for your insight. I've been reading conflicting point of views on that out there. One group says replace the windows with modern ones. The other group says keep the original windows in an old house as they add to overall look & feel and try mitigating the noise issue by other means, such as restoring the windows, insulating them, adding high quality storm windows, etc. I can definitely appreciate both sides.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Just a point of reference here. Thermal properties of windows do not necessarily translate into acoustic properties. Glazings, gas, etc have no effect on the acoustic performance. Sound waves are primarily affected by mass between you and the source of the noise.

Similarly, foam is excellent for thermal isolation, and terrible for acoustic isolation.

The soundproof windows first mentioned _may_ be your best bet. They use laminated glass, not plate glass. Laminated glass is what is in your car windshield. Laminated glass is not only much more massive, but the glass panes are somewhat damped by the polymer used to fuse them together.

These windows are installed on the inside of the original windows so you maintain the look and symetry of the original windows, if that's an issue.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks. I'm actually about to pull a plug on Mon-Ray storm windows/door installation (www.monray.com). Took a lot of research and a long time to find them. Similar concept to interior soundproof windows I mentioned earlier, similar materials, ie laminated glass, and really high STC ratings (40 and up). This also leaves my old windows intact.

One variable & unknown at the moment is the storm door. Door stoop is old and warn out, so they can't do a nice air tight installation. It needs to be leveled. So, I may have to get that replaced, which I'm not crazy about as it's an original one. But I don't see another way.


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## Red Squirrel (Jun 29, 2009)

The double pane windows will probably do a big difference.

Also, how well insulated are the walls? Even non acoustic insulation tends to be half decent at sound proofing. 

Also adding weather stripping around the door may help a bit. Another thing do you have a wood stove or fireplace? Flues tend to capture sound very well. When I go in my basement I can hear the sound of kids from the school near my house due to the hot water flue going to the roof.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

SM05 said:


> Thanks. I'm actually about to pull a plug on Mon-Ray storm windows/door installation (www.monray.com). Took a lot of research and a long time to find them. Similar concept to interior soundproof windows I mentioned earlier, similar materials, ie laminated glass, and really high STC ratings (40 and up). This also leaves my old windows intact.
> 
> One variable & unknown at the moment is the storm door. Door stoop is old and warn out, so they can't do a nice air tight installation. It needs to be leveled. So, I may have to get that replaced, which I'm not crazy about as it's an original one. But I don't see another way.


Without disparaging any one company out there, I would strongly encourage you to have another look at the original window company you referenced...


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Red Squirrel, yep, same setup here as well. Front door weather stripping is really problematic to say the least. Q-lon gasket has been recommended but I'm not quite sure what that is or where I'd find one locally. Need to look more into that.

Ted, you skeptical of whether Mon-Ray can deliver or have some experiences with that? The only reason I haven't pulled the plug yet is because of the front door. Need to get get that figured out otherwise the net effect will be marginal imho.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

I had the opportunity to share a trade show booth with Soundproof Windows (the company) once. I have a long building material and window background dating back to the early 80s. Their windows are impressive and lab data comprehensive in scope. 

For example, while most window manufacturers offer STC figures for acoustic performance, it's oftem the data of the glass only, not the window frame. Pretty large omission and completely misleading.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks, an interesting (and logical) point. Looks like Mon-Ray uses aluminum frame made out of supposedly stronger T6 aluminum. Soundproofwindows advocate using aluminum frame whenever possible and their own test show that fairs extremely well vs. common vinyl ones. So, things are sort of still looking good for Mon-Ray.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

A cursory look at the data reveals:

Sliding Patio Doors:
In tandem with a 28 STC standard window, MR gets 43-44. SPW gets 50. So perhaps the SPW frames are better acoustically.

Storm Windows
The tandem measurements for MR are in the low 40s. SPW gets 45 and into the 50s. Again, perhaps frame and design gets better results.

Overall, MR seems to make good windows however.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks for checking it out Ted. I appreciate it.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

No problem. I was very curious myself, and now I have a lot more data at my disposal for future inquiries.


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## Wiscbldr (Nov 1, 2010)

*noise*

Just spitballing...here are some thoughts:

-Plant some trees/shrubs on the outside to absorb the noise.

-change out the windows, doors for high efficiency, and possibly qualify for the tax rebate (30% of materials).

-install more insulation in the walls, again, reduces noise and could qualify for rebate.

-install sound board drywall on the walls.

-change attic insulation (qualify for rebate), and theres a lot of noise that can come from soffit to attic, down to interior areas.

-rearrange furniture so that the Tv is on the loudest exterior wall facing you so that it drowns out the noise. Put beds furthest away from noisey walls. Put bedrooms on back of the house vs front of house by the street.

-use sound machines or electric fans to create white noise to drown out noises at night when sleeping.

....practice living in a very noisy environment and retrain your mind to accept the noise and not have it affect you. The more you think of the noises and concentrate on them, the worst it will get. Overtime if you learn to ignore it, you will get used to it. 

If all else fails, sell the house. I know its drastic, but if youre not happy living in a house thats noisey, put it up for sale and try to find something in a quieter setting. The road noise will never go away, so you either change your environment, change your mindset, or move.

Good luck!!


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Some good ideas there. More iunsulation in the walls would likely make things worse, however. Compressed insulation conducts a vibration


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## Ladigit (Nov 22, 2010)

SM05... Interested in hearing if you install the Mon-Rays. We are in a similar situation in a historic area in Takoma Park, and looking at the Mon-Ray storms. Have been talking with TheWindowMan in Arlington about installation. Currently trying to decide whether to go with the 1/8" or upgrade to the 1/4" laminated, to mount outside our old-school double-hung wood frames. 

Any info you/others come across would be appreciated.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Wiscbldr, Ted, thanks for the info. I've been thinking about adding cellulose insulation to the party wall and perhaps to one of the exterior walls. Cellulose insulation supposed to work well for soundproofing as well. Wiscbldr, I'm gonna try making it work. We like the location and both are willing to compromise. It's just a matter of getting the noise to acceptable levels I can live with.

Ladigit, I don't have the storm windows installed yet. I pulled the plug on them and will have the final measurement done next Tuesday. After that it takes 6-8 weeks of lead time to make them manufactured, which the installer claims normally takes 4-6 weeks on average. Add installation to that and I think I'm looking into mid January installation at the earliest, weather permitting. For the front, ie noisy side, we went with 1/4 laminated glass. I don't have the door approved yet though so I won't know how the complete solution performs until that's all done. HTH.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Quick point: Fiberglass, cellulose, mineral fiber, cotton or polyester all work close to the same. I would use what is cheapest.


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## SteelToes (Oct 5, 2010)

*Crawlsspace*

SM05 ...do you have a crawlspace...vented crawlspace?


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## Lillie5 (Nov 15, 2010)

Hello,
Great tips! However there was one side that you didn't cover - ABOVE! I've got neighbors that have very heavy feet in the apartment above me. Any suggestions for sound from above?

Thanks

_______________________________

 Fireplace Render


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/solutions/soundproofing_ceilings/


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

SteelToes, we have a basement footprint of our living room with a tiny window at the ground level facing the busy/noisy street.


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## Ladigit (Nov 22, 2010)

SM05 said:


> Ladigit, I don't have the storm windows installed yet. I pulled the plug on them and will have the final measurement done next Tuesday. After that it takes 6-8 weeks of lead time to make them manufactured, which the installer claims normally takes 4-6 weeks on average. Add installation to that and I think I'm looking into mid January installation at the earliest, weather permitting. For the front, ie noisy side, we went with 1/4 laminated glass. I don't have the door approved yet though so I won't know how the complete solution performs until that's all done. HTH.


SM05... Thanks. I'll be interested to see how happy you are with them. Who are you using to do the installation? We're looking to do some price, shopping at this point. We also got the 6-8 weeks manufacturing time estimate from TheWindowMan.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ladigit, will let you know. I'm letting TheWindowMan install them for me as well. They don't wanna have anything to do with the prep of my old/original door stoop though. So I'm thinking I'm gonna order the storm door from them and have another contractor, one I meat with today, install it for me.


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## Ladigit (Nov 22, 2010)

SM05 said:


> Ladigit, will let you know. I'm letting TheWindowMan install them for me as well. They don't wanna have anything to do with the prep of my old/original door stoop though. So I'm thinking I'm gonna order the storm door from them and have another contractor, one I meat with today, install it for me.


Any update on this install? Wondering about the difference and Windowman install. Thanks!


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ladigit said:


> Any update on this install? Wondering about the difference and Windowman install. Thanks!


No so far. Called in a couple of days ago and was told windows were in (why hadn't I been called instead?, anyways...). Most likely will have them installed first week of March. BTW, found a local guy to take down old windows for about half of what WindowMan was offering.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Finally had the new storm windows installed last morning. I still need to take care of the main entry door on the 1st floor, so I'm ignoring the results in that room for now.

The room above it, facing the same busy street, is the one that got both windows taken care of. I had the old storm windows taken out the day before and there were no storm windows here of any kind for close to a day. I totally hated it. It felt like I was sitting on the street with cars passing by right next to me. When the new storm windows got installed, I can't no longer hear the regular traffic, I can hear the loud idling cars, can hear the bus stop by and leave (they do generate a lot more low frequency too). The best way to describe the change is that sound is sort muffled. Some of it is still there but it just doesn't bother me anymore. Individual words in the conversation taking place outside my front door for instance are no longer distinguishable either.

I also suspect that some of the sound bleeding into this room comes from the room below where the front door is. So, that needs to be dealt with, which should make this room a bit quieter too. And also there is a small attic space accessible from this room, which I assume bleeds some noise too.

All in all, I think it's a nice perceivable improvement though. Our original windows got left unchanged, new ones seem to do their job and look great too. I also find that the bedroom where we got just the regular storm windows installed, ie w/o the 1/4 laminated glass, had gotten less drafty and better maintains the temperature. That was always the hottest & coldest room in the house (depending on the season). I always had to crank up A/C in the summer to make it manageable for the night. So, looking forward to that room staying cooler.

And lastly, the installers, while had barely spoken any English, were very efficient and professional. They didn't take any breaks, arrived on time, took special care not to damage the windows or my property, covered work area on the patio, and cleaned up after themselves when they were done. Could've not asked for more than that.

So, hope this lengthy reply helps.


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## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

You may already have done this, but as a temporary fix to the front door, I would put in new weather stripping (doesn't have to be expensive or difficult for temporary) and a door sweep (if necessary) and if there are any other 'leaks', plug them up with something dense (like rubatex or something similar that might help cut back on the noise leaks).

Mark


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## pyper (Jul 1, 2009)

Wiscbldr said:


> -Plant some trees/shrubs on the outside to absorb the noise.


The STC rating of trees and shrubs is essentially 0. According to DOT, a 100 foot buffer of very dense shrubbery can reduce sound 3 dB.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/audible/al4.htm

If you need a temporary sealant, this stuff goes on and comes off easy:

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=19&SubcatID=4

Or at least it did when I used it a decade and a half ago. Better test it first, but I just sprayed a bead around the edge of the door, waited for it to cure, and closed the door onto it. When it was time to move, I just took a dry scrub brush to it and it came right off. It's not like Great Stuff foam. It says flexible and crumbly.


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## NDW (Dec 1, 2012)

SM05, just want to say thanks for this information. I'm in Takoma Park and also thinking about adding some acoustic storm windows. The sound drives me crazy but does not bother my wife in the least. 

Just curious--now that you've lived with the Mon-Rays for a while, would you do it again? Or if you do it again would you try to go for all new windows?


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## NDW (Dec 1, 2012)

Ladigit--just curious as to what you ended up doing with your windows. I'm also in TKPK, near Piney Branch Road, and I'm trying to learn about my options for sound abatement for traffic noise. I had the Window Man in here earlier with the Mon-Ray storms, but I'm considering trying to get approval for new windows. Just wondering what your experience was.


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## rebelranger (Aug 1, 2012)

How serious are you about sound proofing? Windows are only a start. Sealing all gaps is very important too. If you are serious and have the money I would say do these steps (1) remove existing drywall. (2) Install Roxul sound proofing insulation -->http://www.roxul.com/residential/create+a+quiet+home+with+safe%E2%80%99n%E2%80%99sound (This lowers R value though), (3) Install Quiet Rock -->http://www.quietrock.com/, (4) repaint.

Want really serious? Additional steps (a) Have closed foam cell insulation sprayed, (b) Install green glue http://www.greengluecompany.com/, between two layers of drywall/quiet rock, (c) Install thick window drapes and soft wall coverings.

*Sidenote - QuietRock is about $47 for a 4'x8' whereas drywall is about $6 for a 4'x8' sheet. Green glue is about $12 a tube and two tubes are recommend per 4'x8' sheet. Closed cell spray foam is about $1.5 to $2 per sqft....depending on thickness. Roxul safe in sound varies based on location IE check local Lowes. Labor varies to much to guess but you can hang the drywall and finish yourself. Curtains, for high quality, can cost up to $100 per.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Can't say I'd agree with much of that


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## rebelranger (Aug 1, 2012)

@Ted - Why do you not agree with the above? Which method? All methods? Against it due to cost?


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Geez, sorry. I had my forums mixed up. I thought I had just commented on a lot of that and now see that was another thread on another forum.

Depending on the degree of isolation wanted, I would remove the drywall as you say.

Install R13 fiberglass. It's cheaper and works same or better.

I would then install EITHER clips & channels or a second stud wall to decouple.

Then a lot of mass. Double 5/8" drywall. You want the heaviest solution. Lighter weight panels will never make up for the lost mass, no matter how much they cost. The 5/8" drywall from Lowers / HD is super mass, super cheap. 

Then field install a damping layer between those two sheets of 5/8"

This same strategy holds for floors and ceilings as well.


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## rebelranger (Aug 1, 2012)

@Ted - Do you do this for a living? 
-Can you provide first hand expertise that R13 fiberglass "works [the] same or better" than (1)Foam, (2) Roxul, (3) loose fill.
-Can you verify that clips or channels are worth it? I've been told these actually don't make enough difference to justify cost, however they do create dead space.
-Can you verify that 5/8 drywall (the cheap kind) is more effective than QuietRock? Please check that stuff out if you have never seen or used.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

I have done this for a living for 13 years and have been involved in the construction industry since 1983. 

All of this data is readily available online. If you visited any acoustics forum you'd see these are all taken for granted points. None are my ideas.

The Canadian government has the finest acoustics lab in North America. They tested insulation of all types in all configurations. The cheapest fiberglass available actually has the adge in the low frequencies. Google the NRC . Report IRC-761. All the raw data a guy could ever want. :thumbsup:

Clips don't create dead air space. They extend the air space while introducing an air-spring. Introducing these will yield an 8-10 STC point improvement with a huge increase in low frequency (bass) isolation performance. You might be thinking of adding the clips and channel to existing drywall, thereby creating a Triple Leaf. That's not good if you can avoid it. 

Cheap drywall _if used with a damping compound_ is what I said. If two walls both have damped mass then the one with the most mass wins. Hard to top double 5/8" drywall (1 1/4" thick)


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## rebelranger (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks TED! I have read so many acoustics forum it makes my head hurt. One says Fiberglass is the best, another says Roxul, and a third says dead space only. The same for clips and channels, some say do others say don't.

I know MASS is the best sound dampening device. So I get what you mean not with double 5/8 drywall.

If 8-10 STC improvement is available with clips I'm going to add those to my basement when I remove the drop ceiling.

Thanks! Oh and I never doubted your judgment I just wondered if you had actually installed the methods you preach...you most definitely have haha.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh it's all good. And it's good to ask for validation. There's a lot of malarky out there.


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## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

rebelranger said:


> Thanks TED! I have read so many acoustics forum it makes my head hurt.


Perhaps this will help with the pain:

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing101/

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/category/soundproofing-articles/

Very informative articles and information ranging from action to take to circumstances to avoid (Thanks Ted). As someone who has relied on Ted's expertise in the past, I can tell you that the information you receive here and at the above links bears out. I went with a staggered stud wall, multiple layers of 5/8 drywall and GG. I went a bit overkill (3 layers 5/8 on each side of wall), but it was well worth the trouble.

Ted, since you'll likely monitor this thread, _thanks!_ The toughest part of any project is arming yourself with correct information.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ted, thanks for a very informative reply.

I'm an OP here. I'm in an old 120 years old house and starting to think about interior soundproofing, now that exterior is mostly acceptable. I'm in a row house and it's really weirdly setup. It's almost like a big brick box divided in the middle onto 2 houses with some "sort of" party wall. Neighbor's house's been renovated and I assume no longer has any of the original plaster, which I understand does a lot better soundproofing job than drywall. Our kitchen was renovated by the previous owner too, who didn't do anything about soundproofing I assume. I suspect there are tons of voids in the party wall here and there too, as it's loosely bricked in (I've seen a small piece of party wall).

So, commenting on your soundproofing list... I honestly don't see how one can live in the house and have something like that worked on, a small 1200 sq/ft house like ours for instance. Unless it's something like basement. Otherwise, you gotta move out to have that done. Or if house is big enough than it's doable I guess. In our case, we'd for instance have to also re-renovate the kitchen: take out all cabinets & counter tops installed against the party wall first, ie be w/o the kitchen for a few weeks at minimum. Selling this type of project to wife is another matter all together. :whistling2:

Sorry, just venting a little I guess.


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## rebelranger (Aug 1, 2012)

@Rightit - Why the sound proofing? I'm really going to takes some more steps to soundproof my basement movie theater/pool room and the basement utility room. The utility room houses the furnace, washer, and dryer. The washer/dryer are pretty annoying because of the vibrations. Anyways what room did you do?


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## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

rebelranger said:


> @Rightit - Why the sound proofing?...what room did you do?


My office. I needed to keep sound in and sound out.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Your plaster is very massive, but mass isn't the complete answer. The plaster is completely coupled to your framing, whereas removing it allows the new mass (drywall) to be installed in a decoupled fashion.


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## NDW (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks so much for the info, Ted et. al.

FYI, here's another very good website for STC data:

http://www.stcratings.com/assemblies.html

It provides STC ratings for various types of wall assemblies, and discusses the structural features that are most effective. A couple of interesting points:

As Ted says, use of damping compound is KEY when adding drywall layers. If you simply tack on an additional layer of drywall without using compound, it definitely helps, but perhaps not as much as it would seem. Tacking on a layer adds a somewhat modest 5 STC--it does not double the STC, which is what some might think before seeing the data. Use of the compound increases this dramatically. So if anyone is going to go to spend financial (and marital) resources on adding drywall, definitely add compound.

Second, and I thought this was interesting: if you build a second standalone wall as a soundproofing measure, adding layers of drywall between the two sets of studs (i.e., on the inside of the wall assembly), it actually reduces STC. Very counter intuitive. I believe that the reason for the STC reduction is that the sealed airspace within the wall creates a "drum" effect.


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## NDW (Dec 1, 2012)

PS: SM05, it sounds from your previous post that you're generally happy with your acoustic storm windows? True?


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

Keep in mind STC does not measure bass, and paradoxically, that's where most problems occur.

to add 5-6 STC points to a coupled structure you would have to double the overall mass. That means double the drywall, as well as double the weight of the studs and insulation. 3 STC points is just audible.

The reason drywall in the middle hurts us is we now have two competing resonating air cavities and we only want one if we can help it. Otherwise we have a Triple Leaf and problems.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sorry for a late reply. Caught up with work load finally...



Ted White said:


> Your plaster is very massive, but mass isn't the complete answer. The plaster is completely coupled to your framing, whereas removing it allows the new mass (drywall) to be installed in a decoupled fashion.


Ted I assume you were replying to my earlier post. Thanks! Just making sure..., you're saying plaster is still better than the regular drywall installed in a typical manner, right? Knocking on that wall, it actually sounds hollow. Wall seem to be some sort of thin wood panel. I'm thinking about removing that section and insulating it + quietrock. Shelving and TV wall mount are in the way though.



NDW said:


> PS: SM05, it sounds from your previous post that you're generally happy with your acoustic storm windows? True?


I am, in general. It kind of makes your realize where the weak links are. Upstairs it made a sizable difference, making it the quietest room in the house. Downstairs on the other hand it had just re-confirmed what I already knew - front door needs some serious attention.

HTH.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

You can use standard drywall. Heavier and cheaper. Field apply a damping compound. Results are heavier and much cheaper


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ted White said:


> You can use standard drywall. Heavier and cheaper. Field apply a damping compound. Results are heavier and much cheaper


Anything I need to be careful about with that being a party wall and all, fire code, etc? Thanks.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

There may be, and you can look into that, however the 5/8" drywall is already fire-rated.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ted White said:


> There may be, and you can look into that, however the 5/8" drywall is already fire-rated.


Thanks Ted.


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## Ted White (Jun 23, 2009)

If you have bare brick or block as a starting point, or if you can't / won't remove the existing plaster, then you really only have one route. This is a ROUGH outline.


Add vertical furring strip or channel to wall every 24". 

Apply isolation clips to the furring, following a specific pattern.

Snap drywall furring channel into the clips

Install two layers of drywall with a field applied damping compound.

This won't help with sound coming through the floor, as it is also attached to the offending wall. Same for the ceiling and perpendicular side walls.


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

That side of the wall is where I suspect the previous owner had removed plaster in order to get TV mount installed. So they had this thin wood type panel installed in place of drywall. I should also mention that this old house is kind of weird. It's a brick house divided by the original builder onto 2 houses. From what I've seen the party wall is loosely covered with brick between the studs and plastered over. Neighbor had his house renovated so there is no plaster on his end. One side of the living room, and kitchen unfortunately, on my end is where I have no plaster either. So, thinking about fixing that, or more like improving some. Thanks again.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Move?


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## 92469 (Oct 20, 2010)

jagans said:


> Move?


Hehe... not happening any time soon.  My wife doesn't care about it and kind of thinks I'm exaggerating the problems. We both like the area we're in. I've just always been more sensitive to noise so it does matter more to me. Neighbor is not too bad though. I just need to make some marginal improvements here and there to make it tolerable from annoying/irritating. My understanding that's how "incremental" soundproofing works anyways.


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