# Partial Earth Sheltered Home



## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I can post photos but only one at a time. Here is the slab as it's being poured. I used a 15 mil commercial grade vapor barrier. This slab will be the entire house and I couldn't take any chances on water problems. The slab is three block off ground and I placed a French drain on the inside of slab that will also serve as a 
Radon removal system and part time drain.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Block work is all done. Will be covered with brick except front wall will be vinyl
Siding. I have some more electrical questions and will ask them on electrical forum.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Front side facing lake. Plan to build shed type porch roof with stone facing on the chimney 
Block posts.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Good morning JM!

Well, this will be an interesting build to watch.

I hope to be getting started on a somewhat similar build myself next month, but a few thousand miles away from you! 

The slope on your lot looks very similar to mine...so can I ask you what the depth of your side walls are, front to back, and how much slope is in that distance?

The ground at my lot is far too rough to see what my actual slope is yet, but it looks close to yours.

Will you be adding drain rock up the side of your wall which will be buried?

I will be doing that on mine, but we have to cover the top 6" of fill with native soil. Plus adding landscape fabric on top of the drain rock in an attempt to keep the fines from clogging the drain rock over the years.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Good morning JM!
> 
> Well, this will be an interesting build to watch.
> 
> ...


I just saw your reply. My lot slopes about two feet per 12. The back wall is underground about five feet on deepest end. The lot slopes front to back and also side to side. I will put a drain around house and fill with 1 1/2 inch gravel to grade with not dirt near house. For water proofing I am using two independent stand alone systems. First I cleaned footer block interface and did a big filet of Portland cement/ lime/sand on the first block. Then put on two coats of drylock and two coats of non- fibered foundation coating. I then covered all below grade with platon 24 mil plastic made as a stand a lone water proofing system. I also have a drain on the inside of footer and a 15 mil commercial grade vapor barrier under slab. The slab is three block or 24 inches above grade at lowest point. If I end up with any water problems it will not because I was taking shortcuts.
I will keep posting photos and looking forward to seeing your project. I just filled the block with forty pieces of rebar and 16 yds of concrete. It will be a bunker. I am going to have 10 foot (fifteen block high) ceilings to get the house up higher above grade.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Just finished with the water proofing and ready for backfill. I may put some 1/2 inch blue board on top of the Platon but haven't decided yet. From the bare block I have two coats of drylock and two coats of tar then the 24 mil Platon plastic. The Platon is a sure fire method that doesn't depend on those expensive magic potions that may or may not work. Including a photo of my hobby in case someone has a similar interest.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

First photo didn't post. Will try again.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Can only post one photo at a time.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I got the house back filled with 1 1/2 gravel and the windows in last week. I bought vinyl windows from a local window and door company that has a good reputation and I installed them myself. They are ViWinTech made by a company in Kentucky. The front will have four more windows and a door in center. Brick will be next, then frame front wall and install roof trusses.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> I just saw your reply. My lot slopes about two feet per 12. The back wall is underground about five feet on deepest end. The lot slopes front to back and also side to side. I will put a drain around house and fill with 1 1/2 inch gravel to grade with not dirt near house. For water proofing I am using two independent stand alone systems. First I cleaned footer block interface and did a big filet of Portland cement/ lime/sand on the first block. Then put on two coats of drylock and two coats of non- fibered foundation coating. I then covered all below grade with platon 24 mil plastic made as a stand a lone water proofing system. I also have a drain on the inside of footer and a 15 mil commercial grade vapor barrier under slab. The slab is three block or 24 inches above grade at lowest point. If I end up with any water problems it will not because I was taking shortcuts.
> I will keep posting photos and looking forward to seeing your project. I just filled the block with forty pieces of rebar and 16 yds of concrete. It will be a bunker. I am going to have 10 foot (fifteen block high) ceilings to get the house up higher above grade.
> 
> Thanks
> JM


Good grief Charlie Brown! You sure don't want any water ingress problems, do you?

It looks like both our lots have just about the identical slope and in both directions. I am anticipating that the back wall of my cabin will have about 5 feet of fill behind it, and will be a daylight walkout at the front, or south side, which overlooks the lake.

My basement will only need to be 8 feet high, as my lot slopes enough that the top floor should have a decent view without needing any further elevation.

Thanks for posting your pics...most interesting.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Just finished with the water proofing and ready for backfill. I may put some 1/2 inch blue board on top of the Platon but haven't decided yet. From the bare block I have two coats of drylock and two coats of tar then the 24 mil Platon plastic. The Platon is a sure fire method that doesn't depend on those expensive magic potions that may or may not work. Including a photo of my hobby in case someone has a similar interest.


Does this happen to be a kit built 'plane?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Does this happen to be a kit built 'plane?


Yes it's a Vans RV3. It was built in Fairbanks Alaska and later trailered to St George, Utah when the original builder retired. He sold it to me less engine after he had flown it 200 hours. I trailered it home with wings off in 2012 and put the engine out of my Piper Colt in it and sold the Colt airframe. I love it as it flys better than anything I have ever flown. With only a 108 horse power engine it cruises at 160mph and gets 25 miles to the gallon. I have flown it almost 200 hours so far and plan to keep it until someone convinces me I am too old to fly. I am building a experimental super cub myself but the house project has it on the back burner for now.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Coco bolo
Being from a cold climate this may be of interest. The best insulation made is poly iso but is very expensive. It is the stuff used in freezers and those insulated metal hollow core doors. It is also used on commercial roofs and when hrs roofs of large commercial buildings are replaced the take off insulation can be purchased for pennies on the dollar of the new stuff. During the past year I have been stockpiling all I could find via Craigslist. The best find was 200 sheets of 2 1/2 inch (R15) for four dollars a sheet. This stuff is probably 40 to 50 per sheet retail. I also found some 11/2 inch R10. With this poly iso and some blue board to make up for some required thickness I plan to have walls of R 30 and ceiling 
R60. The total cost will also be much lower than buying any type of new insulation. The photo is about one half of my total amount.

Thanks

JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Coco bolo
> Being from a cold climate this may be of interest. The best insulation made is poly iso but is very expensive. It is the stuff used in freezers and those insulated metal hollow core doors. It is also used on commercial roofs and when hrs roofs of large commercial buildings are replaced the take off insulation can be purchased for pennies on the dollar of the new stuff. During the past year I have been stockpiling all I could find via Craigslist. The best find was 200 sheets of 2 1/2 inch (R15) for four dollars a sheet. This stuff is probably 40 to 50 per sheet retail. I also found some 11/2 inch R10. With this poly iso and some blue board to make up for some required thickness I plan to have walls of R 30 and ceiling
> R60. The total cost will also be much lower than buying any type of new insulation. The photo is about one half of my total amount.
> 
> ...


Now there's a great idea if ever I heard one!

There's a small cabin at the end of our spit owned by Harry and Sally. He used to be the manager at one of the big food chain stores on Vancouver Island. I guess he must have been in charge when they replaced all their in-store freezers, because he has a pile of this stuff at his cabin. Never used a sheet of it...it's all still sitting outside.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1 on using the recycled foam when you can find it.

If you need a contact, I have a guy that I work with that gets it in truckloads.

Love the build so far and definitely love the hobby.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Even with all the water proofing technology available I would still construct a large swale on 3 sides. The best water proofing begins with good drainage away from the structure for the life of the building.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

It cuts on a table saw very smoothly and can be cut about 1/8 inch oversize and placed in any size wall cavity. The best way to buy is from the commercial roofing companies as they just want to get rid of it. If your neighbor will part with his that may be a good start. If you are not familiar with the poly iso read about it online and you will see it's got no disadvantages and has the highest R value per inch of any insulation. I can get by easily with a ton and one half heat pump.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Fairview said:


> Even with all the water proofing technology available I would still construct a large swale on 3 sides. The best water proofing begins with good drainage away from the structure for the life of the building.


I plan to do something with the contour. Like you pointed out the lot slopes in an unfavorable manner. I may dig a ditch on the road side and put in some French drains and 4 to 6 inch rock.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> +1 on using the recycled foam when you can find it.
> 
> If you need a contact, I have a guy that I work with that gets it in truckloads.
> 
> ...


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is just too cool, I love the old fighters of WWII, especially the P-51 Mustang and the English Spitfire, they are the most beautiful planes IMHO. I am an ole airdale, I was a hook runner on an aircraft carrier, I love planes.

You are just down the road from me, if I can help you out just holler.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

My brother is an F-15C pilot currently and my father was a pilot. I have done some flying but far less than them. 

Aviation is in our blood for certain.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> My brother is an F-15C pilot currently and my father was a pilot. I have done some flying but far less than them.
> 
> Aviation is in our blood for certain.


Being from a family involved in aviation is usually what gets a person interested in flying. I wasn't that lucky but during my enlisted time in the Air Force I got my license in a base flying club at Vandenberg AFB in California. When I started in 1969 you could rent a Cessna 150 for $12 per hour which included gas. Now that will buy two gallons of AV gas.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That is just too cool, I love the old fighters of WWII, especially the P-51 Mustang and the English Spitfire, they are the most beautiful planes IMHO. I am an ole airdale, I was a hook runner on an aircraft carrier, I love planes.
> 
> You are just down the road from me, if I can help you out just holler.


Big Jim
When you mentioned Airdale I knew you were talking Navy. After my enlisted time in the Air Force I went to Pharmacy school on the GI bill and as I was graduating was lucky to get a Navy Scholarship to go to dental school at Marquette Univ. I served four years as a Navy Dental officer and stayed in the active reserves and retired as a Captain in 2004. It's The achievement I am most proud of to start as a E-1 and go to 06. I loved the Navy Reserves and was very active going many times a year to help out at understaffed Dental clinics around this world.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Big Jim
> When you mentioned Airdale I knew you were talking Navy. After my enlisted time in the Air Force I went to Pharmacy school on the GI bill and as I was graduating was lucky to get a Navy Scholarship to go to dental school at Marquette Univ. I served four years as a Navy Dental officer and stayed in the active reserves and retired as a Captain in 2004. It's The achievement I am most proud of to start as a E-1 and go to 06. I loved the Navy Reserves and was very active going many times a year to help out at understaffed Dental clinics around this world.


That is really impressive, I would be proud also.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

We have started the brick. One wall done so far.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

WOW!!! Very nice! 

Are you doing this yourself? Sure does look good. :thumbup:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I agree, that does look good, that is some back breaking work.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

That looks great! Nice choice of color.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Around here the veneer doesnt go on until the framing is complete. Aer you racing the weather?


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Fairview said:


> Even with all the water proofing technology available I would still construct a large swale on 3 sides. The best water proofing begins with good drainage away from the structure for the life of the building.


Not to hijack JM's thread, but when you do a PWF (permanent wood foundation) your suggestion of making a swale is covered in the regulations regarding wood foundations. It seems to me to be a good idea to do that regardless of whether or not the foundation is wood or concrete.

I bet if more people put in decent drainage initially, there would be far less damp and mouldy basements.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

TheEplumber said:


> Around here the veneer doesnt go on until the framing is complete. Aer you racing the weather?


I admit it is unusual. The house being block filled with concrete and rebar allows me to go this route. As long as we don't break any windows putting on the roof trusses I will be happy. The brick is called Cortez from McMinnville, Tn. It is one of the most popular brick in this part of the state. I am not doing any of the brick block work myself. David Brown who is probably the best mason in this whole area in doing it and him and his two assistants are going to help me frame three walls and put up the 31 foot 6-12 roof trusses. Once it is dryed in I will be doing almost all the work from then on including framing the interior. 

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> WOW!!! Very nice!
> 
> Are you doing this yourself? Sure does look good. :thumbup:


Brick is one thing I leave to the experts. The guys I have doing it are probably the best in the area. A good example happened a few minutes ago. They were bricking around a one inch gray PVC thru wall conduit I had put in for the future power to heat pump. They were starting to diamond cut a half,circle in a brick to go around and I Told them to not bother as it would be covered with a cutoff switch box. They told me we don't want someone to see shoddy work even it will be covered up later. A very unusual attitude for most contractors I have dealt with.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

gma2rjc said:


> That looks great! Nice choice of color.


Thanks
The brick is called Cortez from McMinnville,Tn. It is one of the most popular brick in this area. It goes very well with clay colored windows and siding.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> I admit it is unusual. The house being block filled with concrete and rebar allows me to go this route. As long as we don't break any windows putting on the roof trusses I will be happy. The brick is called Cortez from McMinnville, Tn. It is one of the most popular brick in this part of the state. I am not doing any of the brick block work myself. David Brown who is probably the best mason in this whole area in doing it and him and his two assistants are going to help me frame three walls and put up the 31 foot 6-12 roof trusses. Once it is dryed in I will be doing almost all the work from then on including framing the interior.
> 
> JM


I have a very good friend who lives in McMinnville, we were at his home last week, we live in Chattanooga.

I saw in another thread where you were concerned about the 3/8 inch gap over your brick after you installed the trusses. Aren't you going to have a cornice, if so that will take care of the 3/8 inch gap.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> I have a very good friend who lives in McMinnville, we were at his home last week, we live in Chattanooga.
> 
> I saw in another thread where you were concerned about the 3/8 inch gap over your brick after you installed the trusses. Aren't you going to have a cornice, if so that will take care of the 3/8 inch gap.


Big Jim
I am using cantilever trusses which extend past the walls 16 inches per side. On the cable ends I intend to set the end trusses on the edge of the two by twelve
Roofseal plate. If the brick was flush with top of block they would be taking some of the load. I still want to set the end trusses this way even without any brick support but make some steel brackets to tie in to the many ten inch very secure j bolts. The plan is to cut 13 inch pieces of 3/8 by 2 inch wide steel bar stock and using a iron worker machine I have access to bent ninety degree angles with one side the width of the 2 by12 sill plate and the other side about 4 inches. The long side goes on top of sill plate secured by the j bolt and the other side bolts to the
Lower edge of end truss. I will have about 8 of these brackets per end truss. This will support without needing anything from the brick and will tie down the truss to the block wall many times over what some Simpson straps would do. I will post a photo when this part is done. The reason for all this is the gables will be vinyl and need to be flush with the brick.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Big Jim
> I am using cantilever trusses which extend past the walls 16 inches per side. On the cable ends I intend to set the end trusses on the edge of the two by twelve
> Roofseal plate. If the brick was flush with top of block they would be taking some of the load. I still want to set the end trusses this way even without any brick support but make some steel brackets to tie in to the many ten inch very secure j bolts. The plan is to cut 13 inch pieces of 3/8 by 2 inch wide steel bar stock and using a iron worker machine I have access to bent ninety degree angles with one side the width of the 2 by12 sill plate and the other side about 4 inches. The long side goes on top of sill plate secured by the j bolt and the other side bolts to the
> Lower edge of end truss. I will have about 8 of these brackets per end truss. This will support without needing anything from the brick and will tie down the truss to the block wall many times over what some Simpson straps would do. I will post a photo when this part is done. The reason for all this is the gables will be vinyl and need to be flush with the brick.
> ...


Buddy, if that don't hold it nothing will, sounds like a good plan to me.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Insulation will be an interesting topic. I frequent a forum where a walk out basement has an interior condensation problem above the exterior back fill line. The interior was insulated and mold was discovered behind the insulation but only above the back fill elevation. The lower interior portion didn't condense moisture because it was earth insulated which allowed the interior wall surface to remain above dew point temperature. The upper portion of the walls not covered externally were insulated on the inside which rejected room temperature heat allowing the concrete surface to drop to dew point temperature and condense moisture.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Fairview said:


> Insulation will be an interesting topic. I frequent a forum where a walk out basement has an interior condensation problem above the exterior back fill line. The interior was insulated and mold was discovered behind the insulation but only above the back fill elevation. The lower interior portion didn't condense moisture because it was earth insulated which allowed the interior wall surface to remain above dew point temperature. The upper portion of the walls not covered externally were insulated on the inside which rejected room temperature heat allowing the concrete surface to drop to dew point temperature and condense moisture.


That's a good point, if I understand correctly warm air from inside the house moves thru wall and condenses on the cold upper block but not on the lower earth insulated block. I found a study by research group called "building science corporation" that looked at the common problem of basement insulation. In my case the daylight basement is the whole house so I better get it right. They did ten different methods of insulation and interior wall options. I tried to get a plan based on this research and came up with the following plan greatly aided by an
Abundance of poly iso board purchased very cheaply. 1. My slab is off the dirt by three block back filled with gravel and a perimeter drain on both the inside and outside of the wall. Before any internal framing against block I plan to water proof with either Drylock or Zyprex. 2. Against block will be a 1/2 inch blue board and on top of that 1 1/2 poly iso both 4 by 8 sheets with staggered joints.
This is two inches of continuous insulation before the 2 by 4 framing which will be tight against to hold in place. Then the 2 by 4 wall cavities will be filled first by a 2 1/2 inch poly iso then one inch blue board , then sheet rock. If done carefully with taped joints the theory is no warm moist air will get to the block.
Some of the problems you mentioned may be caused by poor insulation such as fiberglass batts which faired very poorly in the study. Would appreciate any and all comments on my plan. Ceiling will be ten inches of poly iso for a R60.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Some type of two inch pink insulation board ( no other details given ) was glued to the interior walls. A musty smell warranted an investigation and mold was found where air was allowed to contact the interior concrete walls above the outside back fill elevation. To keep interior atmospheric air from contacting the walls I can't think of any way other than hermetically sealing which would be nearly impossible.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Fairview said:


> Some type of two inch pink insulation board ( no other details given ) was glued to the interior walls. A musty smell warranted an investigation and mold was found where air was allowed to contact the interior concrete walls above the outside back fill elevation. To keep interior atmospheric air from contacting the walls I can't think of any way other than hermetically sealing which would be nearly impossible.


I wonder if it would seal if a 1/2 of the spray styrofoam insulation was sprayed over all the exterior walls. I know solid sprayed insulation will not allow for condensation in a vaulted ceiling when it is sealed without ventilation.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Hmmm, time for the old guy to chime in here.

Here's a quote from the OP...

" If done carefully with taped joints the theory is no warm moist air will get to the block."

Way back in the day when I was taking the UFFI (Urea formaldehyde foam insulation) course, there was a very talented builder in Saskatchewan who was working in conjunction with the university in Regina. They were trying to develop insulation systems to work in the harsh winter conditions prevalent on the Canadian prairies. These were the forerunners to the R-2000 houses.

While the work had not been completed yet, he was already on to doing R-50+ in the ceilings, and he was doing it in cathedral ceilings with NO air space above the insulation. Now this was only fibreglass insulation and not any of the modern foam type board insulations.

Now, I cannot speak for the foam board types, but with fibreglass and similar type products, there is a point within the wall at which moisture will condense.

For example, if the outside temperature is 0ºF and the indoor temperature is 70ºF, at the point within the wall cavity at 32ºF, condensation will form. It is possible to calculate at which point within the wall this is. The wall thickness is the main criteria.

In this case the outside temperature is 32ºF below freezing and the inside temperature is 38ºF above freezing. Let us assume (I know, I know...) that the wall thickness is 6", and that you are using a good quality insulation such as Roxul. The basic value of the insulation is R-22 in this case, plus a small amount for the outer sheathing and the vapour barrier and drywall, or whatever interior finish you may have. 

The condensation point in this case is about 46% into the wall from the outside, or very roughly in the middle of the wall cavity.

Condensation WILL form at that point in the wall under those temperature conditions, and yet there is no cause for alarm. And why is that?

Because with a wood framed house the moisture within the wall can escape slowly to the outside as the temperature rises. The critical point here is that an excellent vapour barrier is required on the warm side of the wall. It is this Vapour barrier which actually keeps the moisture outside.

As we all know, wood will both gain and release moisture through the seasons, but once essentially dry, this amount is negligible. Incidentally, kiln dried wood - such as the framing lumber we use - is typically dried to an m.c. of 19%. This is not particularly dry, and I'm sure most of us have been inside a build under construction where the insulation is in place, the v.b. installed, the Herman Nelson's are running wide open, and there is gallons of water running down the inside of the v.b.

OK, back to the OP's house...

The big difference here is that this basement construction is all masonry. Therefore this house will not act anything like a wood framed house, at least in the basement. 

Masonry LOVES water, no matter if it be brick, concrete block, or just plain concrete by itself. The chances of all this masonry ever drying out is zero. So what does one have to do to avoid the moisture problem?

What is being presented above in the previous posts is an attempt to seal off the masonry and cover it 100% with sealer, insulation, and/or a combination of both.

IMHO this isn't going to work well. And it would appear that others agree going by some of the problems as discussed in earlier posts.

What I see as being missing is some form of VENTILATION to allow the moisture to escape the house. So let's repeat the OP's statement...

" If done carefully with taped joints the theory is no warm moist air will get to the block."

I think the key word here is "theory". 

If ANY air passes through - which it inevitably will - it is going to carry moisture with it, guaranteed.

Let's consider this in a different light all together.

The masonry walls in the basement are there to hold the house up in the air. Forget trying to include them in your insulation scheme. All that will do is to provide a constant source of moisture where you don't need it. 

Since you are going to construct wood framed walls anyway, use those, along with your poly iso to provide your insulation value. I can't recall the R value of concrete block, but it isn't much. 

But here's the important thing, leave some space between your wood framed walls and the concrete block walls. See if you can find a local engineer who is well versed in this in your area. An hour of his time will be worth a lifetime of comfort in your home. Wood up against concrete is a guaranteed rot situation in the making.

I suspect you will need some form of open venting where your block walls meet the upper framing. I don't know if it is the 1/300 rule, but your local engineer will know for your area.

Sorry for trying to write the great American novel, but I think if you do some further checking into this you will find that ventilation 9 times out of 10 is the key to a dry, non-musty house. PM me if you like.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Fairview said:


> Some type of two inch pink insulation board ( no other details given ) was glued to the interior walls. A musty smell warranted an investigation and mold was found where air was allowed to contact the interior concrete walls above the outside back fill elevation. To keep interior atmospheric air from contacting the walls I can't think of any way other than hermetically sealing which would be nearly impossible.


This is one of the quotes I was referring to in my rather lengthy post above.

I don't agree that it was the air causing the problem, but rather moisture. Yes the air carries moisture, but it needs some way to exit the house. 

There are a number of solutions to this, which no doubt will be brought up as this discussion carries forth.

Fairview, as you have some considerable knowledge and information about this foam board insulation, I look forward to hearing much more from you. I do not profess to be any sort of expert with this stuff...yet.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Coco bolo
I had though about leaving out the two inches of continuous insulation and standing off the framing to do exactly what you are talking about. One encouraging thing is my present house. It has a full daylight basement with a real house above. I finished the front daylight end and left the rear mostly underground part with open walls for a shop. This was built in 1997 and the inside framing was done by me totally oblivious to the problems of basement insulation. I put some drylock on the lower parts of inside wall to cover what little that was below grade, framed with two by fours against the block, stuck some R-11 fiberglass batts, had it sheet rocked and finished. In Oct we have been living here 17 years. The basement is heated and cooled by our central propane furnace/split unit AC. The rear unfinished part of basement is also heated and cooled but with a very minimal one output duct. We have had zero problems with moisture. No musty smell, the rear open walls have never had as much as one drop of visible moisture. The only moisture barrier on the walls is the craft paper insulation. I am certainly open to ideas and would like to have max input on this issue.

Thanks
JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks for the reply JM.

I suspect that your climate is very different from mine up here, which may make all the difference in the world.

It sounds like what you are doing this time is not the same as your current house. There would be some air circulation the way you constructed the present basement, quite obviously enough to avoid moisture problems.

The R-11 batts wouldn't have done much to insulate the walls, and given the way air passes through those batts, you had a built in air exchange system. There shouldn't have been any reason for moisture to condense on those walls. Any moisture that did infiltrate the walls could have gone out by the same route.

Without some sort of ventilation or air exchange method, I still think you will have moisture problems with your new plan. I surely hope I am wrong in this case, but I still think a visit to a local expert would be well worth while.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Thanks for the reply JM.
> 
> I suspect that your climate is very different from mine up here, which may make all the difference in the world.
> 
> ...


My plan is very tentative and I like the idea of a air space. This one inch air space would be continuous with the Attic if I understand correctly. With our 60% cooling season and 40% heating would there be a problem in summer when the hot moist air from outside (it is not unusual to have 95 temps with 95 % humidity) is freely circulating around the back of wall with the movement toward the cool interior of house or even the cool back side of the block? I think one of the points (need to reread) of the study I quoted is while there is a definite fact that it will behave like you described, the actual air moving across the temp gradient will we minuscule. This is an interesting topic of which I have a lot at stake and want to hear all the pros and cons. luckily I haven't made any mistakes yet and can do the best thing indicated from information being presented.

Thanks
JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> My plan is very tentative and I like the idea of a air space. This one inch air space would be continuous with the Attic if I understand correctly. With our 60% cooling season and 40% heating would there be a problem in summer when the hot moist air from outside (it is not unusual to have 95 temps with 95 % humidity) is freely circulating around the back of wall with the movement toward the cool interior of house or even the cool back side of the block? I think one of the points (need to reread) of the study I quoted is while there is a definite fact that it will behave like you described, the actual air moving across the temp gradient will we minuscule. This is an interesting topic of which I have a lot at stake and want to hear all the pros and cons. luckily I haven't made any mistakes yet and can do the best thing indicated from information being presented.
> 
> Thanks
> JM


95% humidity! Well now, that's going to need some careful planning. The warmer the air is, the more moisture it will hold. We have nothing like that up this way, even though I am right on the water. Our summer daytime highs rarely get much above 80ºF. This summer was an exception, and we went over 90º frequently.

One thing in your favour there is that with the hot air temperature there shouldn't be any surfaces which the moisture will condense on, until wintertime.

It looks like all you need to be concerned with will be times during your heating season when there is a sizable difference between the inside and outside temperatures. 

I'm hoping that Fairview will chime in again about this. He seems to be well versed on the subject.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Coco bolo
I did some looking on the internet after we started talking insulation and it seems many experts are against having a space between block and wall. That's the problem with this subject you can read so many different opinions that it is hard to decide what is best to do.
I am glad we are on this subject now to give plenty of time to hash out what is the best way to proceed. If you have time do a search on " Building America Special Research Project:
High R Foundations Case Study Analysis" by Jonathan Smegal and John Straube from 2010.
If you find the article look at Case 5 which is where I got my initial plan.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I am making the headers for the two by six front wall and decided to try putting some 2 1/2 inch poly iso inside. The stuff cuts very smoothly on a table saw. If done carefully you could fill wall cavities second only to sprayed in material.

jM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> I wonder if it would seal if a 1/2 of the spray styrofoam insulation was sprayed over all the exterior walls. I know solid sprayed insulation will not allow for condensation in a vaulted ceiling when it is sealed without ventilation.


Big Jim
I have been reading some articles that confirms your idea about sprayed foam.
The only disadvantage is the cost. The big issue I need to resolve is whether a air space between the framing/insulation and block wall is the way to go in our climate zone. If not I can put the poly iso and blue XPS board in very tightly and make it work. I am going to frame the walls against the block one stud at a time and can place the insulation boards behind them as I go.

Thanks
JM Being we live so close together we should get together sometime. if you are ever coming this way let me know and we can have some lunch and I will show you the house project.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Big Jim
> I have been reading some articles that confirms your idea about sprayed foam.
> The only disadvantage is the cost. The big issue I need to resolve is whether a air space between the framing/insulation and block wall is the way to go in our climate zone. If not I can put the poly iso and blue XPS board in very tightly and make it work. I am going to frame the walls against the block one stud at a time and can place the insulation boards behind them as I go.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a plan, I would really like to see your home projects. I will contact you and we will make plans when it is convenient for you.

I am still checking to see if anyone in this climate has build a walk out like your's to see if they have had moisture problems. I have built many homes but mostly in and around the Memphis and Jackson area.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Florida especially north Florida has a climate very similar to Southern Tennessee. It is a common practice at least in the past to build concrete block houses. How do they frame and insulate their interior perimeter walls? It could be very helpful info for my project.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Brick is all done, but haven't been cleaned yet, and framing started. I am going to do most of the interior framing later.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

JM, that looks great, I know you are excited to get started drying it in. It is like pulling teeth (sorry bout that) trying to find out anything on the insulating walls of block houses in North FL.

From all I have found, seal the wall good, spray with the styrofoam, leave an air space between the block wall and rigid insulation, well sealed on seams, top and bottom, completely isolating the space between the block wall and rigid styrofoam. Seal the inside of the rigid styrofoam to insure all is totally sealed from any heat getting to the air space from living area. 

If that don't do it I really don't know what else can be done. I do think the mold proof sealer is worth a try, in addition to everything else. JMHO

I will keep looking for other ways also.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The framing is at a point where I had to make some decisions that will affect how I insulate later. I put down the perimeter pressure treated wall plate two inches from the block measured by small blocks of 1/2 inch XPS blue board and the 1 1/2 inch poly iso boards I have. This will allow me to put them in later and then frame in front with cavities filled by a similar sandwich of 2 1/2 inch poly iso
And one inch XPS. Everything I can find online of recent vintage is identical in concept, just different layer thicknesses. 

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I put down perimeter wall PT two by fours two inches from wall to,hold the XPS and poly iso tightly. This still leaves options I could nail on the wall studs like furring strips and get another 3 1/2 inch continuous insulation for example or use the space for air space. Will try to post photo.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Another photo of house front from inside.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That looks good, when are you going to try to get the roof on? 

I got a feeling we are going to have a bad Winter this year for a change?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

We should be starting the roof Monday. I have 24 roof trusses to set.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That should go fairly quick. I am getting excited and it isn't even my home, can't wait to see some pictures.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Some one asked about the poly iso board and it's fire rating. A very good question which I decided to look up more about. It is very highly rated fire resistance and is code approved without any thermal barrier. It is the best of the foam boards in this regard. For further info a quick google search brings up lots of info all good supporting it's use as residential insulation.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

*The Big Picture*

Here is a photo of the Ridgeville development in which I am building my house. It is ten miles from Lynchburg Tennessee, the home of Jack Daniels Distillery.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Oh wow, that is beautiful, I had no idea that was even there, and right up the road from us. Was that taken from your plane?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I took it from my plane last summer. It's hard flying and trying to take pictures, most turn out bad. Here is another shot that shows my lot.

Thanks
JM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Beautiful pictures JM!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I second that, that is one beautiful place JM. Just curious, did you put you plane up for sale? I look for hand planes (on line and Craigs List) as in Stanley wood hand planes for planing wood and ran across a plane (airplane) that looked a lot like yours for sale in Winchester TN.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> I second that, that is one beautiful place JM. Just curious, did you put you plane up for sale? I look for hand planes (on line and Craigs List) as in Stanley wood hand planes for planing wood and ran across a plane (airplane) that looked a lot like yours for sale in Winchester TN.


No that wasn't me. I plan to keep mine until I give up flying. Vans aircraft who made the kit my plane was built from has become a major player in the aviation industry. His company is second only to Boeing in the amount of aircraft aluminum used each year. He started out in 1973 and now has six models all of which will fly circles around similar production air planes like Piper and Cessna. He has over 15000 flying world wide and probably twice that under construction.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> No that wasn't me. I plan to keep mine until I give up flying. Vans aircraft who made the kit my plane was built from has become a major player in the aviation industry. His company is second only to Boeing in the amount of aircraft aluminum used each year. He started out in 1973 and now has six models all of which will fly circles around similar production air planes like Piper and Cessna. He has over 15000 flying world wide and probably twice that under construction.
> 
> Thanks
> JM


That is interesting, it is one really sharp looking plane.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That is interesting, it is one really sharp looking plane.


What's very impressive about these kits is every rivet hole is already drilled by a computer controlled milling machine and the accuracy is amazing. The skins are all cut to exact size. There are people out there who have built three or more of his kits. The top of the line is a four place with gull wing doors that cruises over 200 mph. We have one of those on the field at Tullahoma. Any avid DIY'er with an interest in someday flying should check out Vans aircraft website.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I went to that website, beautiful planes, your's is the RV7 isn't it? That has got to be some serious fun.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> I went to that website, beautiful planes, your's is the RV7 isn't it? That has got to be some serious fun.


Jim
Mine is the RV3. That was the first one he designed. The only one that is single seat.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Framing is well under way. All trusses are up. Hopefully will have roof on by weekend.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Photo from road side.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks great, you guys don't let any grass under your feet, that is for sure.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

That's going up fast! It's looking good!


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Is their something wrong with this site? For some reason I can no longer post photos.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Not that I know about, I will PM the admin about it and see what she says.

PM sent to Cricket, hopefully she can check it out, we love pictures.

I bet you got a lot done this week.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Cricket said she couldn't find anything wrong from this end, you might give it another try. I am going to see if I have any problems posting a picture.
It was a little slow but it worked.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is the latest photo of project. Starting to put on the siding. I am using coated screws and number 10 washers. Time consuming but the best way to do it as I can adjust tightness of the screws as needed.

Thanks
JM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks for the new picture.

You must be excited to be making so much progress. 

:thumbsup:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

gma2rjc said:


> Thanks for the new picture.
> 
> You must be excited to be making so much progress.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I am hoping to get it looking done on outside before cold weather. It's going to be close especially with all the rain we have been having.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That was some sever rain last night, flooded my shop, I got to get out there and turn the fans on to help dry things up before my tools start rusting.

You have it looking good, we have already had a couple frosts here in Lookout Valley.


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## KarimT (Oct 10, 2014)

Looking good so far! 

What are you planning to do next (and don't forget to post more pictures as you progress)?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

KarimT said:


> Looking good so far!
> 
> What are you planning to do next (and don't forget to post more pictures as you progress)?


I want to get all the siding trim and gutters before winter. The porch would be nice to get done now but will probably have to wait until spring. I am going to put artificial stone on the block posts then steel post with those snap together aluminum post around the steel.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

When I was putting on the Platon waterproofing membrane I had to cut it shorter than I wanted to allow for the brickwork to be completed. I went back and dug out about two feet of gravel and painted on super thoroseal and black foundation coating, then cut more of the platon to hang well below the top of existing and backfill end again. Also added another 4 inch drain. The second course was left too high and once I have backfilled to final level will cut off the excess. On the second piece I turned in backwards with the flat side against house to prevent rocks or dirt getting behind it.

Thanks
JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

What the heck is going on here? I go away for a few weeks and when I get back you have your entire house just about finished!!! Amazing!!

I must say it's looking really good. :thumbup:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> What the heck is going on here? I go away for a few weeks and when I get back you have your entire house just about finished!!! Amazing!!
> 
> I must say it's looking really good. :thumbup:[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is the latest photo, taken today. Just got the gutters put on this morning and have finished the backfill. I should have no problem getting all the vinyl trim on before winter but front porch will have to wait. Will work on inside during cold months.

Thanks
JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

You got it now to where you could camp out inside if you wanted too. It does look good.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Back to work on the house after a short vacation to Key West. Took advantage of my Navy retired status and my wife and I stayed at Naval Air Station Key West. I now have all the siding up on the front and have drilled pilot holes for seven 3/4 inch bolts to hold the shed type porch roof which will attach under the gutters and soffit. Gutters are also on. Have started putting insulation under the attic storage decking which will give me a R value of 54. From the photo you can see the two by fours on two foot centers down the eight foot wide space. I filled between with 1 1/2 inch poly ISO, then placed 2 1-2 inch full sheets covered by OSB. Will use long screws to hold in place. Later the two by six bottom of the truss will be filled with two of the 2 1-2 inch sheets for a total thickness of nine inches and R54.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Front with gutters installed.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The poly ISO boards are working out well. They cut on my table saw like butter and the cut edge is very smooth. The thicker board directly under the OSB is plenty rigid and takes the flex out of the OSB on two foot centers.

JM


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## Doc Sheldon (Nov 23, 2014)

Been reading through your thread, JM, and I have to say, I'm impressed. Besides not dragging your feet and getting the place done, you've really gone the extra mile on moisture control and insulation. Once you get that place warm, you ought to be able to keep it that way with a couple of candles! :laughing:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Doc, thanks for the comment. I was very lucky to find the poly-ISO for a very cheap price. 
It is so easy to work with and if done correctly can't be beat for insulation value.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have gotten all the vinyl on except for a small amount on one gable. I am starting to frame in the a outer walls with the insulation. When I poured the slab I used the new foam expansion joint with the perforated top 1/2 inch. Once the slab is poured you remove the flash and pull off the top piece and then caulk the joint to prevent any bugs or radon gas from entering. I have from two to four feet of gravel under the back filled slab so termites or any insect probably can't get up to the slab level anyway. I am using silicone caulk to seal the joint. In the photo you can see the caulked joint and the piece of expansion joint I removed.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is the finished gable end.

JM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

You did a nice job of coordinating the colors of the shingles, siding, bricks, gutter and down spout. It all looks very classy.


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## cleanlymaid (Nov 12, 2014)

Looks great! Stand up job! We built our grandfather's house in a similar manor to you.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have started buildiy the interior perimeter walls with the insulation behind the flat turned studs. The studs are nailed top and bottom but they needed something in the center to press them against the 4 and 1/2 inches of insulation. I found some Perm-grip fasteners that are seven inches long. You drill a 3/16 hole into block then drive in the 1/4 inch hot dipped Zinc concrete nail. They are from a company in St Paul MN. It's a very slow job but with 4 and 1/2 inch of continous plus 1 1/2 between the studs it will yield a R35. 

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Permi-grip seven inch long concrete nail.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The interior walls are a slow process but making headway. I have decided to turn two by fours sideways on side walls and normal on back wall which will have a lot of wiring for kitchen and utility room. The side walls have 4 and one half already with another 1 1/2 inch to fill sideways stud space. The back wall will have two inches behind studs and 3 1/2 inch in cavity later. I am nearly one half done.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

This pic is the back wall.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Progress has been slow due to cold weather. Still putting up interior perimeter wall and the polyiso insulation. I have designed my heating system using a 1 1/2
Ton heatpump with exposed spiral duct. I have found a excellent company to supply me with the ductwork which I will install. Diastamped products with three factories one in Trenton Tenn. I picked the stuff up directly from factory. Look at the enclosed photos for the very unique design. The duct work seals with large Orings and requires no duct tape or sealer. I bought all the duct plus some raw stock for $600. Most of the takeoffs will come directly off the ten inch trunk which will be fed by a twelve inch duct off the unit.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is a photo of the closet start that will hold the heat pump air handler. The beauty of using the poly ISO insulation is it can be precisely cut and driven into place as can be seen in photo.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Is there a place around East or Central Tennessee who sells that type of insulation? I am hoping to insulate my small shop one day before Summer hits. By the way, are you going to build yourself a shop there?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim 
I am going to build a carport like the one in this photo that I built at my current house. I will insulate the small shop area. The poly ISO is hard to find but in the summer commercial roofers resell the takeoffs from their jobs. Also dealers buy it up and jack the price way up for resell. I bought too much as I was not sure what I was going to build. If interested I would sell you what I don't need which is all 2 1/2 inches thick. I will need all the 1 1/2 inch I have. I have two carports full plus my hangar is full. 

Jim


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That sounds good, I will PM you a little later and see how much you will have left, I think I will need about 500 sq ft. 

How did you make out with the snow we got the last few days, did you have any leaks?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

No problems just very hard to get any work done. In my present house I installed a wood furnace about five years ago which we fire up when it gets very cold. I put it in my garage and made custom duct work by welding up 3/4 inch angle iron and pop riveted sheet metal to it. It gets the garage very warm also.
I may have a photo. 

Jim


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have built the closet in center of back wall to house the 1 1/2 Ton heat pump air handler. I found some spiral duct in West Tennessee that uses rubber O rings to seal and requires no duct tape or sealer. I have redid some framing to make a space for the main trunks which is a twelve inch teeing into a ten inch that runs full width of house. It will have eight take-offs six of which will be register vents off the trunk and the other two fed by seven inch spiral. With the ten foot ceilings I put the top of pipe 10 inches below ceiling which still keeps the bottoms over eight feet above floor. Will try to post a couple photos.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

For some reason I can only post one photo at a time on my IPad.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Now would sure be a good time to block on each side of your windows so it will be easier to hang drapes and curtains later.

Are you planning on a dropped ceiling?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
No drop ceiling all the duct will be exposed. It will be very efficient inside the heated space and should look good. Most of my windows will have 12 inch ledges due to the block work and very thick insulation. I am framing them in with 5/8 plywood and plan to lay in tile on the bottoms. No grout just cut and layer in place.

Thanks
JM
PS hopefully you can make it up this spring for a visit.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That will sure take care of any heat or cooling leaks if there are any, it will all be inside.

We will contact you one day before too long so we can come over and visit for a little while, looking forward to it.

Looks like spring is here, now if it will just quit raining.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

With the warm weather I was able to pour the pad for heat pump compressor. I framed with two by eights to get some height and allow for the four inch thru drain and the one inch line for the coil condensate which will require a pump. Even with the thick pour it only took seven wheel barrow mixed 80 lb bags.
I see so many units sitting on wood or concrete blocks which looks bad and is harmful to the unit.
Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have eb gotten to the corner that will have the breaker box. I decided to frame this one area with two by six on 24 inch centers to give me room for four and one half inches of insulation (R-26) behind the box and access on three sides for wires to exit. I plan to make this area like a closet for future acess by using oak plywood and two oak cabinet doors instead of sheet rock.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have started the wiring. All along I wanted to use conduit but knew it was going to be a lot of work. I was also concerned about getting it to work and not coming to some major problem. I am taking it a room at a time and plan to make the home runs in Romex to a point of entry for each room then go all conduit from there. In the attic and at wall junctions I will be using 1/2 inch liquitite. In the attic this flexible conduit will allow me to place a junction on solid wood easily then connect with flex to the gray rigid PVC. I am using all metal 4 by 4 outlet and switch boxes with mud rings. This will give a lot of room and won't have outlets squeezed into a tite space. The house is s all enough that cost won't be a factor and labor will be zero. Will post a photo of my initial start in main bedroom.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have been making a lot of progress but still have a long way to go. I bought a bunch of tongue and groove white pine to use in all the closets and a few ceilings. The back walls of all clothes closets will have five feet covered with some tongue and groove red cedar and the rest the pine. I have also got all the main heating duct up with the exception of two short 7 inch feeders to get thru closets to each bedroom. The other six takeoffs will be directly off the tee'd portion of main duct. I wil post some photos but for some reason can only post one at a time with my IPad. The first photo shows the only part of main duct that has to have a hangar bracket. The rest is supported by walls. I welded up the red bracket and can adjust with the top lock nut for perfect level.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is a photo of a closet with the tongue and groove pine. This photo is of a utility closet and will have no cedar.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

This is the main bedroom closet with the wall being covered with the pine a outside wall. You can see the 1 1/2 inch poly ISO and how well it fits between the turned sideways studs. This good fit was made by cutting the poly ISO on table saw. Behind these studs is 4 and 1/2 inch continous insulation with 1/2 inch XPS against block and 4 inches poly ISO on top of that.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is some good looking lumber, does it work easy or do you have to beat it into place?

When you rip the insulation on the table saw does it make you itch? I have never worked with that kind yet. I do plan to head over your way one day soon.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
The wood just drops into place. Rarely need a hammer. The poly ISO cuts very smooth on table saw and I wear a mask but haven't had any problem with itching. The dust doesn't really stick to you. The T and G is very good quality with little waste. The price he sells it for is wholesale compared to a lumber yard.

Jim


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> The wood just drops into place. Rarely need a hammer. The poly ISO cuts very smooth on table saw and I wear a mask but haven't had any problem with itching. The dust doesn't really stick to you. The T and G is very good quality with little waste. The price he sells it for is wholesale compared to a lumber yard.
> 
> Jim


That is some good T&G then, I have installed where the client bought some really bad materials, we had to literally beat it into place. He saved money at our expense, but only once, next job I told him I was increasing the installation cost if he bought that stuff again.

That T&G you have looks great, I need to do some figuring to see how much we need to finish our ceilings. I appreciate you letting me know where to buy it.

That is good to know about the insulation also, I also like to make it fit as perfect as I can, I will get with you to see how much you have left over.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I am starting the shed type porch. I put a double two by ten header in the front two by six wall during construction and have drilled it for the seven 3/4 inch bolts you can see in photo. I used double nuts and washers to stand off the future header to allow any rain blown in to drain in front of the vinyl siding. The front posts will be covered with six inch square aluminum posts and the block will be covered with fake stone. I plan to use standing seam 26 gauge roofing metal rather than shingles for the porch. I will cover underneath with vinyl soffit material.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks great, your grass came up really nice also.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
When you get time stop by. Any day will work for me. Did you ever contact the guy in Georgia with the T&G pine?

Jim


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hey Jim, no, I kinda got side tracked a little on a different project since warmer weather has set in. We for sure want to plan a trip over your way one day soon. Are you installing any sheet rock in your home?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
I am going to use mostly Sheetrock. The wood will be used on den, bathroom,and utility room ceiling and the rest Sheetrock. I am also doing all closets with the pine and some T&G cedar. On the poly ISO I have left over if you decide to get it how will it be used. If it is going into stud cavities it saws very well on a table saw leaving a very smooth edge.

Jim


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I just got a great deal on Granite for my counter top which is a ways off but I couldn't pass up the deal I got. A couple near Nashville had bought the granite for a house remodel then sold the house before it was installed. It was sitting the corner of their new living room and they wanted it gone. I got 58 sq feet which is more than enough for my house for $350. Which includes sink cutout and inside corner piece. Later I will be seeking advice in proper installation. 

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Man, talk about lucking out, that is a deal and it looks great to boot. I can't wait to see it in your kitchen.

I don't know how I over looked your last post. I plan to use the ISO between the studs and over head in my shop area and in the utility room. I will see how much you have left a little later.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I framed my porch over the past low ninety degree days. A friend of mine helped lift up and secure the 5/8 OSB decking. I bought a Harbor Freight 28 degree nail gun for less than a hundred dollars and have been very satisfied with it. It was great having it to nail down the decking and limit the time one the very hot roof. I used 1/8 inch steel angles to attach rafters to double two by eight header secured to house and it's built in double two by ten headers with seven 3/4 inch all thread bolts. The front beam is two flat two by sixes with OSB between then both sides nailed to two by fours. I wanted it wide enough to hold the aluminum post bases and caps. I will cover with standing seam 26 gauge metal which cost about the same as having someone shingle as I will install the metal myself.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Photo of front beam.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks great, Getting closer everyday.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Porch is done and the standing seam metal roof is on. All that is left is to put on the vinyl trim. The porch ceiling will be vinyl vertical/soffit material. I will do the stone post as one of the last projects.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have got all the interior framing done and am doing wiring and plumbing. I spent a lot of time putting T&G white pine in all the closets which will greatly decrease the sheet rock labor. The OSB part of each closet will be covered with 1/4 inch thick T&G red cedar.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Photo of space for electric fireplace, with a pantry and storage closet behind.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

On the wiring I am using metal 4 by 4 boxes with 5/8 inch mud rings. In the attic I have run two by fours and plywood tracks on both sides for the home runs and junction boxes. The junction boxes are all fiberglass/composite.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

On the ends of house the studs are turned sideways and I am using 1 1/2 inch deep boxes with metal straps like used to hold down roof trusses as brackets with nylon tie wraps to hold the wires the required 1 1/4 inch from framing members. With the mud rings should be plenty of space for the one duplex receptacle in each.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Man, you are making great progress, it looks great.

I just saw this a little while ago and though about you, this looks a little like your plane:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1157166247334&set=vb......1173074047&type=2&theater


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> On the ends of house the studs are turned sideways and I am using 1 1/2 inch deep boxes with metal straps like used to hold down roof trusses as brackets with nylon tie wraps to hold the wires the required 1 1/4 inch from framing members. With the mud rings should be plenty of space for the one duplex receptacle in each.


You have me baffled here. Why does the wiring need to be 1 1/4" from the framing members?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

cocobolo said:


> You have me baffled here. Why does the wiring need to be 1 1/4" from the framing members?



X2. Wow, sounds like a crazy rule.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> Man, you are making great progress, it looks great.
> 
> I just saw this a little while ago and though about you, this looks a little like your plane:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1157166247334&set=vb......1173074047&type=2&theater


Jim
I am not sure what kind of plane that is in the video. It is very similar to my RV3. Now that the weather is cooling off stop by for a visit this fall.

Jim
Here is a photo I took on one of my many trips to visit family in Madison Indiana.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> You have me baffled here. Why does the wiring need to be 1 1/4" from the framing members?



As I understand it if I nail the wire to the side of the stud it will we closer than 1 1/4 from the face of the stud and a sheet rock screw could damage. Likewise if I had the same wire going thru a regular placed stud and it was closer to surface than 1 1/4 inch it would require a steel plate to cover.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> I am not sure what kind of plane that is in the video. It is very similar to my RV3. Now that the weather is cooling off stop by for a visit this fall.
> 
> Jim
> Here is a photo I took on one of my many trips to visit family in Madison Indiana.


That is one sharp looking plane, I love planes. I was a hook runner on an air craft carrier back in the 60s and was around many different planes, my favorite planes are the WWII fighters especially the P-51.

I had planned to get to visit this spring but we bought a fixer upper pontoon and it has pretty well kept me busy, then I had a couple more projects.

We do hope to make it over your way before cold weather hits, Monteagle is not fun in the snow. LOL


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> As I understand it if I nail the wire to the side of the stud it will we closer than 1 1/4 from the face of the stud and a sheet rock screw could damage. Likewise if I had the same wire going thru a regular placed stud and it was closer to surface than 1 1/4 inch it would require a steel plate to cover.


OK, I see your reasoning now, but under normal circumstances you wouldn't have your studs on the flat, as opposed to on edge - as in standard framing.

Any drywaller worth his salt should be able to hit a 3 1/2" wide stud without difficulty, so I believe that you are perfectly OK to use the wire staples to attach your wire to the side of the stud. Our code requires that any wire from a box must be attached to the framing within 12" or 305 mm. Was there any particular reason that you needed to turn your studs sideways? Just curious is all.

As far as the drywall nail hitting a wire in regular framing, our electrical code specifies that your holes should be drilled in the centre of the stud on a 2 x 4 wall. This will leave very close to 1 1/2" of solid wood on either side of the wire. Given that drywall is typically 1/2" or sometimes 5/8" thick, and drywall nails are usually only 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" long, you should have at least an inch of room left over. There are circumstances when you need the steel plate (the side of an electrical box usually) but I don't think this is one of them.

Now, having said all this, it may well be that your electrical code is not the same as it is in Canada, but AFAIK the codes are both taken from the IBC.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

You are right but I think where the code got involved is with very common finished basements many of which use furring strips instead of typical stud framing. Many builders put up XPS board against the block then furring strips over it. I only did the side walls this way which maximized the unbroken insulation and conserved interior space. I will only have a total of eight receptacles to deal with in the turned sideways walls. 

Jim


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

OK, now I'm with you.

Over the years I have re-done a number of basements which only had 1 x 4 strapping on the concrete walls. That really does make it impossible to add any wiring. All you can do there is to add a vapour barrier and drywall and hope for the best.

Any wiring in a situation like that has to be in the ceiling or on an interior wall.

You should still be able to staple your wiring though. You won't have any trouble there.

If you are going to be the drywall guy of choice, you will know where your studs are anyway. Just put a mark on the floor in the middle of the stud and that will tell you where to use your screws or nails as the case may be. Simple.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That is one sharp looking plane, I love planes. I was a hook runner on an air craft carrier back in the 60s and was around many different planes, my favorite planes are the WWII fighters especially the P-51.
> 
> I had planned to get to visit this spring but we bought a fixer upper pontoon and it has pretty well kept me busy, then I had a couple more projects.
> 
> We do hope to make it over your way before cold weather hits, Monteagle is not fun in the snow. LOL


Jim
Which carrier were you on? I am a retired Navy Captain (mostly reserve duty with 8 yrs active). In the early nineties I did 90 days of a Med cruise on the USS Forrestal. They were slated to become the training carrier after the cruise and were short of dental officers and wanted a reservist for the short term need. I was a LCDR at the time and enjoyed the travel and ports. I got to COD onboard off the coast of Egypt and left ship in Palma by helio. I wanted to leave by COD but we were pulling into Palma for the second time when I left ship.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> OK, now I'm with you.
> 
> Over the years I have re-done a number of basements which only had 1 x 4 strapping on the concrete walls. That really does make it impossible to add any wiring. All you can do there is to add a vapour barrier and drywall and hope for the best.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what I am doing will pass especially by not having a staple near box. 
If the inspector doesn't like those plates and tie wraps he may let me just go with stables all the way up which is what I would have preferred from the start.
Jim


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> Which carrier were you on? I am a retired Navy Captain (mostly reserve duty with 8 yrs active). In the early nineties I did 90 days of a Med cruise on the USS Forrestal. They were slated to become the training carrier after the cruise and were short of dental officers and wanted a reservist for the short term need. I was a LCDR at the time and enjoyed the travel and ports. I got to COD onboard off the coast of Egypt and left ship in Palma by helio. I wanted to leave by COD but we were pulling into Palma for the second time when I left ship.


I was on the Franklin D Roosevelt CVA 42, but my time was in the early 60s. Saw some crazy stuff on the flight deck back then. 
Wow, that is really impressive, when we meet, I don't know rather to salute or shake your hand. LOL


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> I was on the Franklin D Roosevelt CVA 42, but my time was in the early 60s. Saw some crazy stuff on the flight deck back then.
> Wow, that is really impressive, when we meet, I don't know rather to salute or shake your hand. LOL




Jim
I started out enlisted also. I did four years in the AirForce.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> I started out enlisted also. I did four years in the AirForce.
> 
> JM


That is even more impressive, I hope to meet you soon.

Jim


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

I bet you guys will have a whole lot to talk about when the day comes. Good luck!


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I decided to do the wiring differently in the two, stud turned sideways walls, and went with 1/2 inch EMT conduit. A ten foot stick is the perfect length and costs only 2.25 each. In the attic I am connecting it to a metal junction box using flexible 1/2 inch aluminum conduit. Not only is it a neater job I could replace the wires if ever needed.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Still working a little each day but not a lot to show for it. I took time out from wiring to finish porch before cold weather. Am now back wiring. Got the yard looking better and have had septic system install.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Looking from street at corner of lot.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

Curious as to what sort of septic system you have to put in down your way. Up here the rules have been tightened so much the cost of a basic system is now running to $20,000. Ridiculous.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Curious as to what sort of septic system you have to put in down your way. Up here the rules have been tightened so much the cost of a basic system is now running to $20,000. Ridiculous.


Here in Tennessee it is much cheaper. Since I only have one bathroom I was able to call the house a one bedroom and the minimum field line was to be 110 feet. I was able to put in 140 feet and still keep the field line in one straight line with plenty of space left over for a back- up if ever needed. With a 1000 gal concrete septic tank my total cost was $1850. 

My county (Moore) has also decided to quit participating in the State building inspection program. The only inspections now required for home construction are septic system and electrical.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That was a really good price on the septic system, it cost me more than that 20 years ago just outside Memphis.

You got your home looking good, did you sack your brick or did they come already sacked?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That was a really good price on the septic system, it cost me more than that 20 years ago just outside Memphis.
> 
> You got your home looking good, did you sack your brick or did they come already sacked?



Jim
Not sure what you mean about sacked brick. 

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

My wiring rough in is almost done and I am getting ready to start the second phase of installing the insulation. I initially nailed down two by fours on two foot centers down the attic on top of the truss bottoms which are two by sixes. I then cut 1 1/2 thick poly ISO and laid between these then placed two layers of the 2 1/2 inch poly ISO on top of that. This gave me 6 1/2 inches on the attic side of the two by six ceiling joist. Now it is time to fill the cavity created by the two by six ceiling. Two layers of the 2 plus inch sheets just fills this space and ends up flush with bottom of ceiling to rest against the ceiling Sheetrock. I was able to find some 6 inch long wood screws and using the large thin metal washers that came stuck to the recycled poly ISO I can screw into the two foot on center two by fours that run at 90 degrees to ceiling joist.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> Not sure what you mean about sacked brick.
> 
> JM


Wow, I don't know how I missed this post but I did. Sacking brick is where they use a tow sack an actually smear the mortar all over the brick. The sack is wet and the mortar looks a little like a white was like the picture below. I used the method on a lot of the homes I built that were reproductions of older antique homes.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I flunked my first rough in wiring inspection due to a couple minor issues but am now ready. The inspector liked the job I was doing overall. I used all metal 4 by 4 boxes except for the junction boxes in attic. After the wiring inspection next week I will finish putting in the polyiso insulation, some final T & G pine on one wall and then contract out the sheet rock. Here is a photo of some of the wiring in the area of the refrigerator nook. I will be using all cooper spec/commercial grade receptacles and switches because I like the back type connections and they look much much better in quality. It will cost a little more but I am only building 1200 sq feet versus a more common 3 or 4 thousand sq feet and can afford to spend extra in some cases.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That does look good Jim, sorry I haven't made it over your way yet, I still hope to one day.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That does look good Jim, sorry I haven't made it over your way yet, I still hope to one day.


Jim
Thanks. Definitely come by when you get time.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I passed my rough in wiring inspection and am now working on the air handler closet. I decided to box in the return, line with sheet metal and build it so I can use any split unit I choose. The top of air handler box will have a replaceable top that can be made to fit any future air handler. The 20 by 20 filter grill will be exposed to room and the door above will be about 5 feet in height.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Another photo of return air box.


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## bigyellowones (Jan 27, 2016)

ive gone through loads of posts on here, quite impressed with the level of skill people have here. i thought i knew what i was doing when it came to this sort of stuff (diy) but i could never pull this off! nice progress pics -- well done!


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

bigyellowones said:


> ive gone through loads of posts on here, quite impressed with the level of skill people have here. i thought i knew what i was doing when it came to this sort of stuff (diy) but i could never pull this off! nice progress pics -- well done!


Thanks. I am about to get the insulation done and start the Sheetrock. I will contract the Sheetrock out. I want to post some pictures of the walls when the insulation is complete before Sheetrock. So far I have seen absolutely no problem with water and will improve the drainage even more this summer. The slab is three block above grade at the deep in ground end and goes to 5 or 6 block above grade at the other end.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I am just days away from having the Sheetrock done. Insulation is almost all in. The Sheetrock job is not bad cost wise. Using 5/8 on ceiling the total labor for hanging and finishing is around $2100. Once the Sheetrock is done the rest should go fast and by late summer should be livable. I will try to post a couple photos of the insulation in place but more taping will be done just before sheet rock is hung.

The first photo is of the back wall with studs turned normal.
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

This photo is a side wall with studs laid flat.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Our subdivision is full of deer. It is very rare to not see a herd or two.
My house is just down the road you see on the left just past the curve.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Sheet rock contractors starting in a couple days. I had to install a heating vent that goes thru closet before wall gets closed up. Some some handy devices that are widely used in aircraft construction called clecos come in very handy to temporary hold multiple screw/rivet holes in alignment. They can be removed and reinstalled with special pliers. Any one doing sheet metal work would benefit from using clecos. Will post two photos of actual duct work held in place with clecos, which are removed one by one and replaced by pop rivets or screws.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Second photo showing a cleco and cleco pliers. You can buy 1/8 hole size clecos for about 50 cents each.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The sheet rock has been hung and finishing to start in a few days. The exposed heat and cooling ducts will look good and will be very efficient. Here is a couple photos.

Thanks 
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The above photo shows main 12 inch duct as it exits the air handler closet. The second shows how it tees off into two ten inch ducts for left and right side of the house.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

It won't be long now, looks like you got it on a down hill drag. I know you are happy to have it at this point. Some really nice days coming up soon so maybe what winter we had is almost gone.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Sheetrock is all done and am painting and working on HVAC ducts. Someone a while ago on this site recommended Hart and Cooley 821 series registers for my exposed ductwork. I bought them this morning from our local wholesaler and have most of them installed. Will post a photo. They should work well to direct air where needed and to balance the flow. Eight total registers with each side of twelve into ten inch tee exactly the same.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Another photo from kitchen side.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I found a local Trane dealer who doesn't mind me doing most of the split heat pump hookup. He gave me a very good price that includes him doing the lineset soldering, system checkout and starting unit. I am in process of setting unit in closet and building the transition piece from air handler to round duct. Here is a photo of the rectangular portion fitted, clecoed and ready for riveting. The top plate will be removable and held in place by aircraft tinnerman sheet metal screw plates.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

ddsrph said:


> I found a local Trane dealer who doesn't mind me doing most of the split heat pump hookup. He gave me a very good price that includes him doing the lineset soldering, system checkout and starting unit. I am in process of setting unit in closet and building the transition piece from air handler to round duct. Here is a photo of the rectangular portion fitted, clecoed and ready for riveting. The top plate will be removable and held in place by aircraft tinnerman sheet metal screw plates.


Hey cool, looks like we got us a tin basher on board.....:wink2:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

All the painting is done and the air handler is installed and surrounding closet finished. I had to cut down a 24 inch wide door to 56 inches and frame out. As soon as the wiring is fully finished and power is on the HVAC company will see and hookup compressor. I got the trane unit with partial install for not much more than a online purchase of a Goodman with a shaky quarantee. 
I have started the detached garage 20 by 24 and plan to do only the foundation and build the rest later. Today I used a rented tractor and. Moved fifty ton of gravel to back fill for slab.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Another photo.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Very nice.

Your house and garage should match well.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

123pugsy said:


> Very nice.
> 
> Your house and garage should match well.


Thanks. I am going to frame with 2 by sixes and cover with the vinyl like on eaves and front of house. The slab will be poured over the block using the brick as the form. The two by six wall and sill will be wide enough to cover the brick and be partially supported by the slab concrete. A two by four wall would be entirely on brick. I may even use a PT two by eight sill plate to get even more over the slab.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

It won't be long now and you will be home, it all looks great.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Today I used a rented tractor and. Moved fifty tons of gravel to back fill for slab.


Tractor? What, don't they make shovels any more? :devil3:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Tractor? What, don't they make shovels any more? :devil3:



I will probably get to try one of those also. I was a little short of rock and don't want to pay to keep tractor. I am going to try and get a load early tue and move them before they pick up tractor. Otherwise it's shovel and wheel barrow.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Ready to pour garage slab tomorrow and a sidewalk. I went overboard but it should not crack. Slab will be 5 1/2 inches thick, 4000 psi concrete with 1/2 inch rebar on two foot squares with fiber mesh in concrete. Actual garage won't be started until we move to new house.
Also finished electric fireplace with granite and wood mantel. Will try to post photos.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Photo of electric fireplace. Was all set to go with propane but found this high quality electric unit made in Canada, which looks very real and no gas hazards and much easier to install.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Photo of electric fireplace. Was all set to go with propane but found this high quality electric unit made in Canada, which looks very real and no gas hazards and much easier to install.


You got the garage foundation looking good, it should work well for you.

What brand name is your fireplace, do you have a link to it. We have been talking about a fireplace and seeing what our options are.

Are you going to build your own mantel?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
The fireplace unit is a Dimplex from Canada. I bought the mantel unfinished off Craigs list and did the Granite tiles around it myself. The fireplace unit has the most highly rated flame appearance and I wired it with three wall switches for ease of operation. You can run flame only with heat turned off for pennies a day.
By not having to have a chimney I built a closet above the unit which was a nice bonus.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> The fireplace unit is a Dimplex from Canada. I bought the mantel unfinished off Craigs list and did the Granite tiles around it myself. The fireplace unit has the most highly rated flame appearance and I wired it with three wall switches for ease of operation. You can run flame only with heat turned off for pennies a day.
> By not having to have a chimney I built a closet above the unit which was a nice bonus.


Man you did a fantastic job, I thought that picture was just an illustration of how you were going to do your's. Thanks for the information on the fireplace, I will check it out.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Be sure to add poly (over the foam) under the slab AND sill plates as the brick has no drainage space/ventilation and capillarity will wet the wood framing studs; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code

Photo 2; http://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-059-slab-happy

The fiber is for even drying/shrinking, add some wire mesh rather/including the re-bar (unless substrate is poor); http://www.chicagolandconcrete.com/fiber-mesh-vs-rebar-or-w-w-f

Gary


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Gary in WA said:


> Be sure to add poly (over the foam) under the slab AND sill plates as the brick has no drainage space/ventilation and capillarity will wet the wood framing studs; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code
> 
> Photo 2; http://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-059-slab-happy
> 
> ...


Gary
Thanks. I will definitely add some poly. I was planning on just using the foam sill plate material by itself. If I add strips of poly should it go over or under the foam sill plate or does it matter? I have already got the rebar in place and the slab is resting on top of the block wall plus I have two footer and block columns in center for center support of slab. Like I mentioned in a earlier post I plan to use two by six framing on top of a PT two by eight sill plate so the brick will not be supporting the wall.

Thanks
JM


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Sill sealer (closed-cell) is better as it acts as a thermal/air/moisture break to the studs, poly is only against moisture,. Difficult to install the poly *under* the re-bar (in lower 1/3 depth of slab?- and* on *the foam, enlist those deer, somehow, lol. 

Gary


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Gary
When I did the house slab I bought some yellow commercial 15 mil poly designed to be used as a underslab vapor barrier. I had just enough left to do the garage. In the photo the yellow is the 15 mil poly and the rebar is on top of that.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That should do a good job, 6 mil is what is normally used.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Great! No need to mention slab requires sloping per code to door or a drain for gasoline spill/leak.... may want a control joint across the apron (appears that is sloped). Good job!

Gary


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I passed my electrical final inspection, got slab and sidewalk poured and heat pump hooked up in the past few days. I did all the house wiring and installed heat pump except for final stage of soldering lineset between compressor and air handler. I found a very good Trane dealer who had no problem with me doing install and the price for the 1 1/2 T trane unit was not much more than buying online with a safer guarantee. So far unit has worked very well and I have seen no condensation on my exposed spiral ducts. 

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Indoor air handler. For some reason I can only post one photo at a time.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Poured slab. I kept covered with plastic and used a sprinkler hose to keep wet for seven days and haven't sealed yet.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Won't be long now, you got it looking great.

I will report that you can only post one photo at a time.


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## Halewoodwindows (Jul 20, 2016)

Looks fantastic! Where is this build at?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks. It's in Moore county Tennessee about ten miles from Lynchburg. Here is photo of subdivision its in I took last year.

JM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Wow, that is one beautiful place, I can see some great fishing spots there. What a view!


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have started floors, Pergo in about 40% and tile in the rest. Started tiling in bathroom and was in need of tile saw. I didn't want to spend a lot for a big saw and renting was going to be a problem. As I was on verge of buying a large $200 plus saw at HF I discovered a very small saw that will do the job. Since this is my last tile job I can make do with this $54 dollar saw minus 20% discount coupon. It is working great so far. Will post a photo of saw and in progress bathroom.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is my $45 dollar HF tile saw which is working great so far. To get an idea of saw size the tile in place to cut is 6 inch tile.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Now that my electrical and water line is in I can do something I have wanted to do for a long time is pour finish line curbs for water drainage and backfilling with brown pea gravel over the 1 1/2 inch gravel backfill. I am making forms using 2 by 6's and the width of a 2 by 6 for pouring on site mixed concrete using a mixer I bought from HF. It's slow and a lot of work, but I don't want to have anymore heavy trucks on property if possible. Also I don't want to built a bunch of forms at one time to make a concrete truck even practical. I will be pouring a driveway threshold over my entrance drain tile but that can be poured from street. The rest of the driveway can be a combination of concrete and pavers, done in an incremental way that I can do myself.


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## baelemeux (Aug 4, 2016)

So very neat, best of luck finishing it up.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have got the first 20 foot section of curb poured and back filled with pea gravel. The side is bordered by a sidewalk. Will wait for cooler weather to finish. I have plenty of stuff to do inside anyway. The air conditioning is working great and I have not seen one drop of condensation on the exposed ductwork.

Thanks
JM


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

ddsrph said:


> For some reason I can only post one photo at a time.


Unlike some sites this site only allows one upload at a time but I have always been able to attach multiple images to a post. Try just uploading one and then another.

Nice looking work. I will need to start at the begining and work my way through the thread.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

The curb looks very nice ddsrph, and that color of pea gravel looks great with the color of the house.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I just got the plumbing done, using CPVC. I like the German brand PEX that uses the expand plus slide on ring system and can change to this later if I want to. All the plumbing is external and except for the utility room hidden by cabinets. The bathroom is between the utility room and kitchen so I ran conduits under tub shower to later slide the supply lines thru, kitchen lines are all under sink cabinets and then back thru wall to bathroom sink and commode. On the supply from street I put the 3/4 inch inside a 1 1/2 inch conduit so no need to ever dig up yard again. I had to seal the conduit on the inside as it could be a water pipe itself if the inter 3/4 inch line ever leaks. I used a double ended rubber gasket pipe coupler for this seal.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Piping looks real nice. I guess CPVC is the pipe flavor Tennessee prefers. It's not the first time I've seen it there. Do you have an isolation valve on the heater?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

TheEplumber said:


> Piping looks real nice. I guess CPVC is the pipe flavor Tennessee prefers. It's not the first time I've seen it there. Do you have an isolation valve on the heater?


There is a brass shutoff valve just before the expansion tank on the cold water side. I welded up a couple of steel brackets to support the expansion tank and other pipes. The only cut off valves on the hot water side are at the kitchen and bsthroom sinks. Here is a photo of the pipes that will be under the kitchen sink. They are fed from the supply pipes that run under the tube shower, feed back thru the wall to supply the bathroom sink and commode.


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## sleepyg (Dec 30, 2011)

Just wondering is that galvanized just after the ball valve?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

sleepyg said:


> Just wondering is that galvanized just after the ball valve?


It is galvanized. I wanted something strong to hang the expansion tank off of.


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## BocaPaint (Aug 31, 2016)

Wow. Nice job this looks really cool from the first images. Really impressed


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## BocaPaint (Aug 31, 2016)

oh and to post more than one photo maybe try imgur and then share the link with us


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

All I have left is flooring, interior doors and trim. I have tried to get most of the outside work done with the good fall weather. I have poured the rest of the sidewalk using concrete I mixed in a HF mixer which is working well. I hope to move in then build the rest of the garage and small deck.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have finally gotten all the curb poured and the pea gravel in place. The HF concrete mixer worked very well and saved a lot of money. All the Pergo is down and a bunch of tile remains which I dread but have a heated house to work in this winter. Tile , interior doors, and trim left for winter plus I plan to make my own hickory cabinets using doors purchased on Internet from a company called "Raw Doors" I think they are in Iowa.

JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Three rooms have Pergo from Lowes, Spalted Maple, pattern.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks like you got things on a down hill drag now, it really does look good. Those Hickory cabinets are going to look great. It don't look like we are going to have much winter around here this year.


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## dhederson (Nov 22, 2016)

Very nice


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

JM...forgive me for being so late in making an inquiry about a pic you posted on August 29th.

Is there some particular reason that you don't seem to have the expansion tank being supported from below?

I note that you have it hanging off galvanized pipe, but that in turn is attached to plastic on one side and copper on the other. Wouldn't you be a little safer to give the tank some solid support from below?

I must admit I'm just more curious than anything.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I did it that way based on photos I saw which most just had them supported by pipes alone. The whole expansion tank thing was new to me. I will relook at it and possibly add a lower bracket also. I haven't even let the water tank fill yet. Plan to wait until just before we move in. I did pressure test everything with air at 50 psi which held for days.

Thanks
JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> I did it that way based on photos I saw which most just had them supported by pipes alone. The whole expansion tank thing was new to me. I will relook at it and possibly add a lower bracket also. I haven't even let the water tank fill yet. Plan to wait until just before we move in. I did pressure test everything with air at 50 psi which held for days.
> 
> Thanks
> JM


Ahhh, OK I see. Well, the expansion tank was new to me as well, except if you were on a well. Then, of course, that tank is a pressure tank. It has a membrane inside. One part of the pressure tank contains water, and the part on the opposite side of the membrane has pressurized air. The more water that gets pumped in, the greater the air pressure...which in turn pushes the water through your system.

You have pressurized water from the street, don't you? If that's the case, then I must admit I'm quite lost as to why you need such a tank.

Do you know if your tank has a membrane inside? I really would be very interested to learn all about that. It also strikes me that the tank should be up the other way, no? Any water that gets in won't come out I think, except by gravity. Which means that your tank will likely eventually fill with water...unless it has a membrane.

Honestly, I'm really kind of guessing here, but that's what seems logical to me.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

The tank has a membrane and is pressureized to 50 psi. The reason for the tank is modern public water systems have a back flow restriction valve to prevent potentially contaminated home or business water to back flow into water line. With this valve the hot water tank can cause a pressure buildup and blow the pressure relief valve. That is what I read on some diy plumbing sites and decided to add the tank.

JM


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

PM sent JM.

The back flow prevention valve has nothing to do with causing any extra pressure in your system.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Most plumbing codes require an expansion tank on water heaters, especially when back flow devices are installed

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> PM sent JM.
> 
> The back flow prevention valve has nothing to do with causing any extra pressure in your system.


I went back and looked at why I did the system the way I did. The whole concept of an expansion tank was new to me and I forgot where my reference and info came from. It was directly from the manufacture of the hot water heater (Rheem). I am posting a photo directly from the installation manual. The explanation from the manual is if you have a back flow check valve in the system, which I do, then when the hot water is heated the system pressure will increase and cannot be relieved by pushing water back into the source (water main) and therefore cause an increased pressure in the hot water tank. The overflow tank as you see in the manual drawing and in my install photo has 50 Lbs of air pressure from the bottom totally within the internal ballon. As long as the water pressure is 50 lbs or less the tank is totally out of the picture. When the pressure goes above the 50 lbs it will start to fill the tank from the top staying out of the internal ballon. When the pressure again drops back down the ballon will force the water back out into the hot water tank or lines, again being out of the system.
I am posting the photo from installation manual.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

ddsrph said:


> I went back and looked at why I did the system the way I did. The whole concept of an expansion tank was new to me and I forgot where my reference and info came from. It was directly from the manufacture of the hot water heater (Rheem). I am posting a photo directly from the installation manual. The explanation from the manual is if you have a back flow check valve in the system, which I do, then when the hot water is heated the system pressure will increase and cannot be relieved by pushing water back into the source (water main) and therefore cause an increased pressure in the hot water tank. The overflow tank as you see in the manual drawing and in my install photo has 50 Lbs of air pressure from the bottom totally within the internal ballon. As long as the water pressure is 50 lbs or less the tank is totally out of the picture. When the pressure goes above the 50 lbs it will start to fill the tank from the top staying out of the internal ballon. When the pressure again drops back down the ballon will force the water back out into the hot water tank or lines, again being out of the system.
> I am posting the photo from installation manual.


Interesting stuff.
Thanks.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Water heaters can be very dangerous.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Water heaters can be very dangerous.


Yes, they can.

This incident happened in 1982, and appears to have been the result of a poorly maintained 75 gallon water heater in which both the pressure relief valve and the thermostat failed catastrophically. A maintenance worker had been called in earlier that morning to do some work on the heater - although what work does not seem to be specified.
A kitchen worker had reported that steam was coming out of the hot water tap shortly before the tank exploded.
There are several reports available on this incident from the fire department and the local police.
It would appear that this particular tank was well past it's prime and should have been replaced years earlier.
I cannot see how an expansion tank would have helped in this case.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Yes, they can.
> 
> This incident happened in 1982, and appears to have been the result of a poorly maintained 75 gallon water heater in which both the pressure relief valve and the thermostat failed catastrophically. A maintenance worker had been called in earlier that morning to do some work on the heater - although what work does not seem to be specified.
> A kitchen worker had reported that steam was coming out of the hot water tap shortly before the tank exploded.
> ...



It wouldn't have helped at all. My understanding is the expansion tank is there to prevent the unnessary tripping of the pressure relief valve under normal operating conditions. i plan to occasionally check the operation of the pressure relief valve, something I haven't been doing in my present house. Also plan to replace the water heater anode every few years, something else I didn't know even existed until recently.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Time is of essence in situations like this and possibly an expansion tank would have provided that to report trouble and possibly evacuate students, but what do i know.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Time is of essence in situations like this and possibly an expansion tank would have provided that to report trouble and possibly evacuate students, but what do i know.


That's certainly true it would have taken longer before it exploded. I wonder how common it is to have a hot water tank to explode? If no deaths or serious injuries they don't make the news.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Time is of essence in situations like this and possibly an expansion tank would have provided that to report trouble and possibly evacuate students, but what do i know.


I have my doubts about that, because we aren't talking about hot water here, but steam.

I think if the hot water tap - now steam - had been left wide open, that MAY have extended the explosion time. But really, who would think to do that? Surely ones first instinct would be to shut it off right away.

I think there was more happening here than what has been told. For a tank to explode like that the pressure must have been immense. Either that, or the tank was almost eaten all the way through by corrosion of some nature. Just too many things wrong about that explosion. Most likely a cheap school board.


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## cocobolo (Dec 16, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> i plan to occasionally check the operation of the pressure relief valve, something I haven't been doing in my present house. Also plan to replace the water heater anode every few years, something else I didn't know even existed until recently.


We had a new water heater put in last year. I was cautioned by both the plumber and the electrician not to mess with the relief valve.

The reason is that once this valve is seated at the factory, that any movement in either sideways direction can lead to a small change in its' ability to hold pressure.

I honestly thought they were not serious, but apparently they were.

As to changing your anode...by the time that goes, your tank will most likely be past its' useful life anyway. And with new water heaters being so inexpensive these days why even bother?


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## Don Pauli (Jan 31, 2014)

On a drinking water system in the house with a backflow preventer on the home supply line ,the tank absorbs pressure variations from heating in the hot water tank and keeps it from pressurizing the entire home. Arguments aside they're pretty cheap insurance for code and will also help reduce water hammer. If the house has no back flow preventer they are not needed as the supply mains absorb that same pressure. And all that I've seen are mounted tank up. On a hydronic heating system they function the same way because the heating system and boiler are normally equipped with check valves to isolate the potable system from the heat and would otherwise have no place for the hot heating water to go as it gets up to temp and they also are tank up. Sometimes the illustrations show them upside down for space reasons in the drawing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Don Pauli (Jan 31, 2014)

Those tanks do have membranes to isolate a 50 psi charge. But. If the tank is as pictured it will fill with water and be useless. But if tank is upright and it loses the diaphragm there will be an air bubble trapped there offering some pressure absorption


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> We had a new water heater put in last year. I was cautioned by both the plumber and the electrician not to mess with the relief valve.
> 
> The reason is that once this valve is seated at the factory, that any movement in either sideways direction can lead to a small change in its' ability to hold pressure.
> 
> ...


h

I think in practice most hot water heaters get replaced when they spring a leak in tank wall or they stop making hot water.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Don Pauli said:


> Those tanks do have membranes to isolate a 50 psi charge. But. If the tank is as pictured it will fill with water and be useless. But if tank is upright and it loses the diaphragm there will be an air bubble trapped there offering some pressure absorption
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That makes a lot of sense, but I wonder why the heater manufactures, Rheem and a Utube video by Whirlpool, both show them hanging down.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

ddsrph said:


> That makes a lot of sense, but I wonder why the heater manufactures, Rheem and a Utube video by Whirlpool, both show them hanging down.


I looked at my system and there is no room to turn tank upward. What I will do is check the pressure yearly which will tell me the membrane is intact and working properly. I have never seen any air pressureized device hold the correct pressure for a long period of time so probably good to check anyway.

JM


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

@ddsrph, Your install looks great. It does not matter what angle the tank is mounted. What matters is that you check the pressure periodically. If the bladder fails- it will be useless.

As to the T&P valve, I believe instructions say to test it annually but I don't touch mine at all. I'm afraid of fouling it with sediment if I test it....


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have started making kitchen cabinets out of Hickory. I found a company in Kansas called "Raw Doors" and highly recommend them. I only ordered a few to see what the quality was and they are excellent. The sanding is so smooth they feel like glass. The one in photo is for a slide out shelving unit I will be building over the electric fireplace. I will be spending less than $1000 for all the kitchen doors. I bought some kiln dried and planed hickory lumber locally for the door frames.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Doors over fridge. Just have one coat of natural stain on them so far.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Since I went with a electric fireplace instead of gas I had a free space over fireplace for closet. I build this slide out unit to get max use of space. Will try to post a photo.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Photo of pull out shelving unit over electric fireplace using garage door track and rollers.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Shelving unit is four feet tall and four feet deep and slides out two feet and has five ball bearing garage door rollers per side.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Decided to put some wainscoting on the dining area walls. I had some extra window casing and used some popular and edge trim to make top piece. The bottom will have same baseboard as rest of the house, 5 1/4 inch. Added self unit as the wife has a lot of seashells to display from our two year Navy duty in the Philippines.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

My super insulation using the polyiso boards, plus system design using in house exposed ductwork is going to pay off. I keep the 1 1/2 ton heat pump on 24/7, set at 65 degrees. With lights and running power tools my electrical bill was $43 for Dec and $44 for Jan. This is in southern middle Tennessee 1200 sq feet. During the summer I ran the AC during the day only and my bill never was above $30.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> My super insulation using the polyiso boards, plus system design using in house exposed ductwork is going to pay off. I keep the 1 1/2 ton heat pump on 24/7, set at 65 degrees. With lights and running power tools my electrical bill was $43 for Dec and $44 for Jan. This is in southern middle Tennessee 1200 sq feet. During the summer I ran the AC during the day only and my bill never was above $30.


Wow, if we get a bill under $100 we are happy campers, that is fantastic.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2017)

very cool design


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Bathroom is done and wife has decorated. Still have some tile and kitchen cabinets to do. We may be in house before it is done. We listed our present house last Monday hoping it would sell by mid summer. We had three offers in 
Three days after listing with others waiting to see house. Ended up selling 10k over asking price.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

ddsrph said:


> My super insulation using the polyiso boards, plus system design using in house exposed ductwork is going to pay off. I keep the 1 1/2 ton heat pump on 24/7, set at 65 degrees. With lights and running power tools my electrical bill was $43 for Dec and $44 for Jan. This is in southern middle Tennessee 1200 sq feet. During the summer I ran the AC during the day only and my bill never was above $30.


Our tax and add on fees that range in names from A-Z are nearly that much.

KW used and cost / KW is most useful when comparing electric utility cost. That eliminates all that other nonsense we pay for.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Our tax and add on fees that range in names from A-Z are nearly that much.
> 
> KW used and cost / KW is most useful when comparing electric utility cost. That eliminates all that other nonsense we pay for.


I need to look at my bill for more detail, but that was total, pay this amount, monthly bill. We have TVA which does have low KW rates. I will be turning on hot water this week so will soon get a good feel for future monthly costs. My home owners insurance and property taxes are going to be less than half of old house, which was a pleasant surprise.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Bathroom is done and wife has decorated. Still have some tile and kitchen cabinets to do. We may be in house before it is done. We listed our present house last Monday hoping it would sell by mid summer. We had three offers in
> Three days after listing with others waiting to see house. Ended up selling 10k over asking price.


Wow, that is fantastic, not everyday a house sells for more than asked.

Have you completed your garage yet?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim

Only have the foundation done. It would be very helpful to have now but
I have a 40 by 40 hangar at Tullahoma airport to store stuff. Without that I don't
Know what I would do. Garage foundation is totally done but no framing yet. I am considering a steel frame building but the cost/benefit might not be worth it.

Thanks
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Due to our house selling so fast we have moved in with no kitchen and some other tile left to do. I have decided to build garage to have a place to work to build the kitchen cabinets. I hired a couple of guys to help with framing and will do the rest myself. I am putting on a hidden fastener roof which is almost done.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Tile almost done. Looking forward to building hickory cabinets with granite counter tops as soon as floor finished.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is the other side of fireplace on kitchen dining room side.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks really good Jim, getting really close now. By the way, it looks like you are starving that poor little dog. :smile:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Big Jim remember if you are ever up this way to stop by. 
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Buddy a 120 lb Great Pyrenees St Bernard mix.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I am about 50 sq feet away from being finished with my tile floor. Hopefully this will be my last tile job.
The house is about 70% tile and 30% pergo. Here is photo of where they all come together.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> I am about 50 sq feet away from being finished with my tile floor. Hopefully this will be my last tile job.
> The house is about 70% tile and 30% pergo. Here is photo of where they all come together.


That is really nice Jim, I like all of them. I know what you mean being glad to get off your knees, that is torture at my age. I put down some engineered glue down flooring in our bedroom the last couple days and I have blisters on my knees, glad that is behind me.


I do still plan to stop by and visit with you, I appreciate the invite.

Now wonder your puppy is so large, both breeds of those dogs are huge.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Started on cabinets, doing lower first as we currently only have bathroom sink. All my plumbing is replaceable and cutting the back of cabinet was difficult to allow it to slide over pipes. I am using some modular granite I bought off Craig's list for $350. For that price I got about 50% more then I will need. I will be needing some advice on how to glue it together. It will have a total of four glued joints.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Base cabinets are well under way. I have glued down (silicone) the first piece of granite to get the sink up and running. The sink is removable in case it ever needs to be replaced. I am making max use of heavy wire pull out shelves from Lowes. I purchased and finished all the doors several months ago.
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Finished base cabinets and installed the granite counter top. Our local tool rental place had a 31 inch cutting tile saw which worked well for my 24 inch deep granite pieces.
After watching a lot of videos on installing granite counters I decided that since I didn't have tools needed and having four joints I couldn't do it exactly perfect and left 1/8 joints between the granite pieces to be filled in by black tinted polyester glue. The material recommended for this purpose. I will glue this afternoon and considering I will only have about $400 in entire top including the $350 paid for the granite, I can live with a less than perfect job.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Knowing how careful you are at doing things, I am sure it is going to look great.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim, thanks
It seemed to turn out ok. The glue/grout line could have been a little darker but overall much better that a cheaper type counter like Formica. I ended up using a premixed grout from Lowes instead of the polyester glue which had a very short working time. The granite was already glued in place with silicone and didn't need an actual glue.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is a photo of a finished joint.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Cabinets are nearly done. Cutting and installing hickory frames and hanging the premaid doors. All top cabinets will be glass front doors.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I know you will be glad when all is done. I lived in one of the houses I built and it seemed like it took forever to finish. Everything you do is just one more thing you will have to do. :smile:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

It's hard to maintain the momentum. The house I just sold wasn't finished until I was ready to list 20 years after starting it. Do you know if there is something wrong with site as my previous photo didn't post and older ones will no longer open.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

There isn't anything wrong with the site as far as I know, if you are still having problems I can turn it in to one of our admins or the techs.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Kitchen is finally very near completion. Just need to hang two more doors and building drawers which I am starting today. I am very happy with the hickory doors I bought online from Raw Doors in Kansas. I think I paid around $700 for the entire kitchen and $350 for the granite on Craigslist. Probably 1600 for entire project.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

You came out smelling like a rose on your kitchen, it is looking great. You are at the point I hate now, I never liked building drawers at all. :smile:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Finally got the inside of house done. Did the last piece of trim today. Outside all that is left is stone and railing on porch and build a small deck.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

It looks great Jim, I know you are happy to be done inside.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Certainly glad to be done. Looking back I wonder where I got the energy for this project. Certainly my last major project. We just got our Dec electric bill and it has "shot up" to $87 which includes the heat pump hot water and my wife's daily clothes washing and drying. Remember to stop by when in area of Lynchburg.
Jim Miller


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I would be tickled to get a utility bill anywhere near that low. :smile:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I am very happy with the bill also. Our previous house had a propane furnace and our electric bill was still about what it is at the new house.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Decided to add a lean to carport to garage. The three pillars are flue blocks filled with concrete. I will cover with fake stone. The 3 inch pipes are level and will have more pipe supporting header with decorative alum post covering the steel.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is going to look nice Jim, your garage turned out really nice.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks. It should provide a lot of utility for a small cost. I was able to get the pressure treated header board bolted to garage with the wife's help.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That's a good start, hopefully the weather won't hold you up the next few days. I am building a front porch right now. I hope to start the metal roof tomorrow.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Carport almost done. Just need to trim out and put stone around pillars


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That looks great Jim, you have done a fantastic job on everything you have started. I know it feels good to have that part behind you.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
Thanks. Hopefully by late summer all will be done. Deck is almost done and only thing major left to do is insulate garage by cutting the poly ISO boards to go between studs. Using two 2 1/2 inches thicknesses for a r30 but will just have a contractor do ceiling at r19. I have done a small area and have all the white metal on site to finish. Will buy a PTAC unit to heat and cool. Here is the small area done so far.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Just finished pouring driveway. 27 yds of concrete poured 6 inches thick. As soon as it was walkable sealed with a Dayton Superior 25% solids sealer. Sealed same day to prevent drying too fast. Sealing is not as good as keeping wet for 7 to 10 days but more practical for me.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That looks great Jim, I know you are wore out after all that concrete. That is one thing that always wore me totally out. That is one more thing you won't ever have to do. It is all coming together fast now, close to about time to relax and enjoy all your hard labor.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
Concrete is very stressful for me. I had a great crew doing it but was sure glad it is over.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

After almost three years I am calling project done. Just finished porch posts. I was in a bind on those looking at a long drawn out labor intensive project until I discovered Gen Stone which went up very fast. This product would be my first choice for something indoors like a fireplace or accent wall due to ease of installation. Not so sure where used it but job sure went fast.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Wow, what a difference, you did a fantastic job Jim, that looks great. I know it feels great to have it complete. Now you can go fishing or flying. :smile:


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim 
Thanks. Am sure glad it’s done. Remember to stop by when in area.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Jim I hope to get by to see you one day soon. I did take your address off for your safety, but I do have it saved. I appreciate you letting me have it. I will let you know before we drop by.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I bought some Speedway plastic tiles for garage over a year ago. The company is in Chattanooga which is 60 miles away. They were much cheaper that the highly advertised race deck and the quality seems fine. They sure improved the look of garage. Walls have metal covering and r30 foam board insulation. Just need to cover thrvr19 ceiling with white vinyl.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Just added an extra metal carport on side of garage. Bought raw metal rather than kit. Was cheaper and could design to be stronger.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That does look good. 

I have been thinking of you the past week, every time I look for ISO board I think about you. You really got a great deal on yours. Have you priced any lately?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
I haven’t looked lately. I ended up with too much. I saved enough for my garage and sold the rest for about what I paid for it. I framed the garage with 2 by 6’s and used two layers to fill cavities for about r30. Have you been able to find any for sale?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Jim
> I haven’t looked lately. I ended up with too much. I saved enough for my garage and sold the rest for about what I paid for it. I framed the garage with 2 by 6’s and used two layers to fill cavities for about r30. Have you been able to find any for sale?


What I have found so far is 3.5"X4'X8' is about $1 per sq foot which as you know is about $32 a sheet used and it is a good ways down in Georgia. I have been looking for a while but so far that is about as good as it gets on price. Wow, your garage is super well insulated for sure, that is great. Wouldn't take much to heat or cool that building.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
I was very lucky to find mine. 2.5 thick 4 by 8 sheets for $4 per sheet. Also bought some 1 1/2 inch thick for $6 per sheet.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

House finished and been moved in almost four years. Still adding onto garage, carport on one side, storage unit still under construction on other side and two storage areas on back.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Looks great. Good job you got that tree just south of that steep driveway in case the car decides to go for a roll.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hey Jim, it is great to see your smiling face. You have really come a long way on your place, that does look great.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Pugsy & Big Jim
Haven’t visited site much since getting house done. Now thinking about a metal roof in the next few years before I get too old to DIY it. Want to research subject before hand to be ready when the time comes. Jim remember when virus is over and you are headed up to Nashville let me know and you can swing by Lynchburg for lunch.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> Pugsy & Big Jim
> Haven’t visited site much since getting house done. Now thinking about a metal roof in the next few years before I get too old to DIY it. Want to research subject before hand to be ready when the time comes. Jim remember when virus is over and you are headed up to Nashville let me know and you can swing by Lynchburg for lunch.


Sounds like a winner buddy.

You built your home and garage at a good time, have you priced lumber lately? It is out of sight over this way.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Same here. I think a sheet of OSB is over $20.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Good idea on the metal roof. I wasn't allowed as I'm in the heritage zone.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I just saw a product from Canada that looked promising. A rubber/composite slate looking tile.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

ddsrph said:


> I just saw a product from Canada that looked promising. A rubber/composite slate looking tile.
> View attachment 637653
> View attachment 637653


Decided to enclose the left side carport to make storage area. Used a little extra hat channel so no wood required. Installed vertical vinyl siding which better for neighborhood requirements and being 8 inches wide easier to work with than 3 foot wide steel sheets.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

cocobolo said:


> Hmmm, time for the old guy to chime in here.
> 
> Here's a quote from the OP...
> 
> ...


I was just rereading some of the old posts on my house construction from five years ago. (Partial Earth Sheltered Home) There was a lot of questions about insulation and the best way to insulate a house that was in reality a daylight (walkout basement) After four years of living here I can report the system I used worked out well. Not one indication of moisture or musty smell. The 1 1/2 ton heat pump has proven to be sized right. My year round heating and cooling bill is estimated to be $50 dollars per month. This is factoring out heat and cooling from total $80 per month electric bill.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

In the end I left no air space and didn’t coat the block except of course the outer below grade. Two inches of foam board tight against block, then framing then foam board cut to fill framing spaces. All joints overlapped and taped. All foam board was polyiso with black fiber/paper covering except the layer directly in contact with block was 1/2 inch XPS Blue Board from Lowe’s.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ddsrph said:


> In the end I left no air space and didn’t coat the block except of course the outer below grade. Two inches of foam board tight against block, then framing then foam board cut to fill framing spaces. All joints overlapped and taped. All foam board was polyiso with black fiber/paper covering except the layer directly in contact with block was 1/2 inch XPS Blue Board from Lowe’s.


That polyiso is some good stuff, I insulated my shop with it and it is always cool when I go out there. The small AC I have in the shop keeps it really nice. I found a place here in Chattanooga who has the 3/1/2 inch stuff at $8 a 4x8 sheet, that was good enough for me. I appreciate you letting me know about it.

You have a really nice place, it sure don't seem like it has been 5 years now.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

BigJim said:


> That polyiso is some good stuff, I insulated my shop with it and it is always cool when I go out there. The small AC I have in the shop keeps it really nice. I found a place here in Chattanooga who has the 3/1/2 inch stuff at $8 a 4x8 sheet, that was good enough for me. I appreciate you letting me know about it.
> 
> You have a really nice place, it sure don't seem like it has been 5 years now.


Jim
The 3 1/2 inch is a rare find. Perfect for two by four framing. On my garage I had a lot left over from house and framed garage with 2 by 6 and used two layers of the 2 1/2 and it totally filled the space. Put in a motel type thru wall heat pump which works perfect. Next time In area be sure to stop by for lunch.
JM


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
Check out my latest project. Mail jeep with fiberglass body. Total ground up project. Engine and transmission turned out to be in great condition as is.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I decided to build a covered pavilion for outside activities in front of house facing the lake. It’s 12 by 16. I got a ridiculous bid for $3000 to do the block portion so decided to try my first diy block and brick job. Block done and brick is on order. Turning out well so far.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hey buddy, I don't know how I didn't see your thread especially about your Jeep. All I can say there is WOW just WOW. Buddy that is absolutely beautiful amazing to say the least. That is a project anyone would be super proud of.

The price of laying your blocks like to have blown my socks off, that is totally crazy. Looks like you did a great job on laying them. Love to see your progress as you go. The cost of materials now is so out of sight, do you plan to stick build or other?


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
Thanks. The jeep was a fun project. Got the mail jeep plus a second very good condition frame. My block work is all done and cavities filled with concrete. Brick is coming tomorrow. I am pouring additions to footer four inches wide to make the brick easier. The upper wood portion will be vinyl and metal covered. OSB is now $50 per sheet or very close after sales tax. The guy and his son who wanted $3000 to lay the 120 block are the type of contractors looking for people with no knowledge of construction.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Jim
The upper roof will be supported by aluminum posts with steel inside. The lower 40 inches of posts will be stone covered 16 by 16 chimney blocks like the porch of my house.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I have started the brickwork. I have done enough of it (my first ever brick laying) to feel confident it is going to work out fine. Here is a photo of latest progress.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Getting a little faster with the brick work but still taking a professional one day job and requiring a month to complete.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Less than two courses away from completion of lower portion needed to pour slab. After slab poured can stack the 16 by 16 chimney block five block high with four inch c-channel inside to support roof. The rest of the brick and stone veneer can be done in shade under the roof.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Finally have all the lower brick done and gravel leveled for slab pour. The upper portion of block brick and stone will be easy now that I have some experience laying brick.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Note the deer behind the structure. I just had a deer take bread from my hand as I leaned over back porch. We feed about 15 daily which is getting expensive. Corn is up about 50% since we started feeding them a few years ago.


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

Finally lined up a three man crew to pour the slab. I then stacked the chimney blocks around the rebar stubs, placed the steel posts in center and filled the center cavities with concrete. I can now build the upper wooden truss roof covered in metal and vinyl trim. The rest of the brick and stone can be done afterwards out of the weather.


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## Heathersdad (Jan 13, 2020)

ddsrph said:


> Corn is up about 50% ...


Let's Go Brandon


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## ddsrph (Nov 23, 2013)

I don’t know when corn went up but is was very gradual over five years.


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