# Automatic Closet Lights



## Chris Johnson (Oct 31, 2007)

Couldn't find anything magnetic

How's your humor level tonight? This is the best I could come up with...must wear sunglasses


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## Sav505 (Dec 5, 2007)

Haha! The closets are way too small for that! But it might not be a bad idea to get an inexpensive one and put one regular bulb in it....Hmm

The one I attached was my original idea, but it's $30. I think a jamb switch would be better for the money.


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## Chris Johnson (Oct 31, 2007)

Jamb switches I know of require you to remove the trim, some drywall run a wire, patch it all up and paint. I use the $ 30.00 sensor. Actually HD has a cheap one for around $ 9.00, Not the greatest but if it works, great, if not hey it's HD they take back everything


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

speaking of closet luminaires the codes are very strict with this no open indscent bulbs in the clothes closet allowed you can add a motion switch when someone open the closet or use the door jamb switch one of the two will work good with it.

Merci, Marc


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

How about this closet light relay and a set of magnetic contacts at the door instead of the jamb switch.









http://www.tequipment.net/RemconRC-120S.html


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## wiredog (Dec 7, 2007)

door jam switches require femoving the door frame and cuttin dry wall i recomend as others have the sensor on the light


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Stubbie said:


> How about this closet light relay and a set of magnetic contacts at the door instead of the jamb switch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was my idea!!!! I've been doing that for years!


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Yep it's a pretty slick way to go. Speedy Petey showed them to me about 3 years ago.


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## Sav505 (Dec 5, 2007)

The relay is a great Idea, but on the web site they are $37.15. I think I would would be better off with the $29 motion sensor. I have 6 closets that I would like to do this in, so I don't want to spend too much money.


> door jam switches require femoving the door frame and cuttin dry wall i recomend as others have the sensor on the light


 
I was thinking that with a magnetic switch, I would be able to go through the top of the jamb straight into the attic with a long drill bit.

I just found thesehttp://www.hamiltonsensors.com/glpcat/clnt_cat_ep.pl?pcid=160&cloc=4719_4720&p=2
I wonder if they would work.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Sav505 said:


> The relay is a great Idea, but on the web site they are $37.15. I think I would would be better off with the $29 motion sensor. I have 6 closets that I would like to do this in, so I don't want to spend too much money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The magnets will only work if they are NC (normally closed) magnets, otherwise the light will come on with the door closed instead of the door open.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Stubbie said:


> Yep it's a pretty slick way to go. Speedy Petey showed them to me about 3 years ago.


I use them in Progress Fluorescent lights, (P7008-30) They work very well together.


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## Stubbie (Jan 7, 2007)

Great I'll file that away....


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

The problem with an occupancy sensor is where to put it. If the closet is small and the sensor is inside it may not sense you as you are 180 deg and behind from the sense area.
For large walk-in closets they work fine. 

With that relay NO damage or repair is needed. You can put the ball contact in the top or side jamb and snake the lo-vo wire up to the attic quite easily.

Heck, I can typically put in a line-volt jamb switch with no damage at all also. They _can_ be done "old-work".


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## Troubleshooter (Dec 8, 2007)

This relay and ball contact system sound like just what I need also! Got a link to the parts needed to complete this install from scratch?


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...:official&hs=UM2&q=Remcon+RC-120S&btnG=Search


Then use any N.C. alarm contact to break the circuit when the door is closed. 

I use Edwards 44 rolling ball contact switches.


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## haileysmom97 (Jun 12, 2008)

I found this forum and the relay is slick. Any suggestions on the magnetic switch? I need a rececessed one, not a roller ball. The problem I keep running into is that when they close the door the light comes on. 

I keep asking for a Normally closed contact and I get a n-o with a closed loop, or a normally closed with an open loop. 

*ACK*


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

haileysmom97 said:


> I found this forum and the relay is slick. Any suggestions on the magnetic switch? I need a rececessed one, not a roller ball. The problem I keep running into is that when they close the door the light comes on.
> 
> I keep asking for a Normally closed contact and I get a n-o with a closed loop, or a normally closed with an open loop.
> 
> *ACK*



These are the exact ones I use... grisk.com


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

chris75 said:


> These are the exact ones I use... grisk.com


Dang, what's the part number?


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## ctsmiths (Jan 17, 2009)

Here is a surface mount that might help http://www.smarthome.com/7113/Door-...ct-Switch-Normally-Closed-SM-200-White/p.aspx


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Here is another link to Speedy's Edwards Door Jamb Switches
Door Jamb Switches

.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

I used one of these from my junkbox.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Microswitch.jpg
No relay needed.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Yoyizit said:


> I *used* one of these .........
> No relay needed.


Yoyzit, These are line voltage rated. Did you use it for a closet Light?
If so please post a pic.

.


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm looking to do this on my new Pantry/laundry room, bi-fold louvered doors, old pull chain lights, don't want to run 110 down the walls and no place for big switch. Don't understand all of the options here.... http://www.grisk.com/parts.htm
:thumbsup:


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't fully understand the normally closed stuff either.... this comment above is confusing to me.... "I keep asking for a Normally closed contact and I get a n-o with a closed loop, or a normally closed with an open loop. " Which is it, or is it just a Normally closed one like this.... http://www.smarthome.com/7113/Door-...ct-Switch-Normally-Closed-SM-200-White/p.aspx


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

harleysilo said:


> I don't fully understand the normally closed stuff either


 For these magnetic switches that are used typically for window alarms. *N.C.* refers to how it looks in the circuit i.e. the window is closed so the switch is closed. The Switch is closed because the matching magnet *closes* the switch.
When the widow is opened the magnet moves away from the switch so the switch *opens*.
Out of the circuit, when measuring this NC switch with an Ohmmeter, the meter will show *Open* until actuated by the magnet.

These are still only *Low Voltage* switches. Not to be used at line voltage.

.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

PaliBob said:


> For these magnetic switches that are used typically for window alarms. *N.C.* refers to how it looks in the circuit i.e. the window is closed so the switch is closed. The Switch is closed because the matching magnet *closes* the switch.
> When the widow is opened the magnet moves away from the switch so the switch *opens*.
> 
> .


 
You got that ass backwards bud, a normally closed switch is just that normally closed, apply the magnet and it opens. Exactly why you need normally closed switches for a closet, so when you close the door the switch opens and turns off the light.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

PaliBob said:


> Yoyzit, These are line voltage rated. Did you use it for a closet Light?
> If so please post a pic.
> 
> .


Yeah, for a closet containing only dishes, but I have a bunch of exposed 25w bulbs vertically mounted for the lighting, so I should replace them with a flourescent one of these days.

Use the switches from earlier in this thread made for this application unless it's a lot of remodeling for you. I already had the switches and heatshrink tubing so I did what was convenient.

Clothes, or flammable material, or material that thermally insulates, stored in a closet with exposed bulbs is bad. I guess you could go with a boatload of 1w LEDs, but they are kind of directional.

When I was but a young lad, at camp I got my socks wet so I wrapped them around an incand. bulb to dry them. 
Unfortunately, there was then a big commotion outside (people were swimming in the dark in water containing snapping turtles) so I forgot about my arrangement.
The whole cabin, and maybe some trees, could have burned down; the still-working lamp had lumps in the glass and my socks were literally toast.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

chris75 said:


> You got that ass backwards bud,.....


It would help if I checked for Brain in gear before I drove off the cliff.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

PaliBob said:


> It would help if I checked for Brain in gear before I drove off the cliff.


 Hope I didnt sound cruel...


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## ctsmiths (Jan 17, 2009)

chris75 said:


> Hope I didnt sound cruel...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JJ7oGHwMTI


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the continued discussion in this thread and answering my simple questions. So when a circuit is closed it allows electricity to pass through it, in the case of this closet transformer switch, closed (when away from the magnet) gives me 6v back to the transformer which in turn gives me 110 to the light bulb, and open when the switch is near the magnet gives me nothing. Perfect.

Now, is Normally closed the same as Closed Loop when I'm reading product descriptions say for instance here.... http://www.grisk.com/parts.htm

I'm trying to find the best low voltage magnetic switch, I am concerned with the maximum gap that I can have between the two magnets. It would appear I only need a 2 lead one to go with the above mentioned transformer.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

harleysilo said:


> ................ I only need a 2 lead one to go with the above mentioned *transformer*.


 Harley, which transformer?
Do you mean the Remcon RC-120S? 
Do you have one and are trying to make it work with a magnetic switch?

If so, I share your open loop/closed loop confusion. I think it refers to how it is configured in a security loop e.g. Star system vs Daisey chain. I may be completely off base on this.

When you get it to work, *Please post the results*

If you don't have the Remcon remote switch, here is the Manual:
ampR115S,RC120S_om_6-94.pdf (application/pdf Object) 

.


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

PaliBob said:


> Harley, which transformer?
> Do you mean the Remcon RC-120S?
> Do you have one and are trying to make it work with a magnetic switch?
> 
> ...


I don't have one. I'm going to order the RC120S to use on a single light, with only one sensor. I need to buy the sensor and just want to make sure I get the right one.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

I think I finally got this security system thing figured out with the open Loop/ closed loop thing. 
Closed loop switches are N.O.
Open loop switches are N.C.

*Open Loop* switches in a door circuit are OPEN when the door is *CLOSED* because the magnet is holding the switch contacts OPEN.

*Open Loop* switches in a door circuit are CLOSED when the door is *OPEN* because the magnet is not close to the switch contacts so the contacts are back to N.C.

Where to buy one
1) MFG (GRI sells by minimum of 10)
2) local Distributer
3) local security installer (Open Loop switches are NOT common)
4) Net (SafeMart.com will sell by small quantities.
.................SafeMart 

Note the 3030-12 are *NOT* on their page but are available 
on the phone listed under _Need Help?_ at the top of the page.

The cost I was quoted on 1/22/09 was $3.49 + $5.99 S&H

for ref here is the GRI data sheet
GRI 3/8 dia mag-switches_pdf 

.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

*Schematic for Automatic Closet Lights*

Thanks to Stubbie for first posting the RC-120S Remote Switch and to chris75 for the part number for the N.C. magnetic reed switch. This has for me really cleared up the mystery of open loop/Closed loop vs N.O./N.C.

Anyway Stubbie, Chris75, and other contributors, Tell me if I've made any Boo Boo's.
.


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## harleysilo (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks for posting all that Pali Bob, I'll be doing that exact thing in this new pantry....


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Harley,
Good Pic. I see why you want to get rid of the pull cord.
Let us know how you do the new switch.

If You need a el cheapo Bell Hangers drill:
HF-BellHanger1 

HF also has larger sizes.
5/16, 3/8, & 7/16 for $6.99
HF-BellHanger2 

and then for the big bucks
1/2, 9/16, & 5/8 for $9.99
HF-BellHanger3 

The body of the magnetic switch is 3/8 but the lead wires should fit through a 1/4" hole easily.

Before you drill any holes. Try some practice holes on a piece of scrap 2x4 to be sure the holes are the right size for the switch and the leads.


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## wis_remod (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok, this Remcon relay switch sounds really great. Is there any way it can be implemented fairly easily in existing construction. I would like to use this method in two first floor closets. Unfortunately there is a second floor so drilling up into attic is not possible and drilling through door jambs is not possible either since drywall, trim, etc is in place in the closets and hallways they are off of. There is a bathroom between the two closets that is currently gutted so there is access to one sidewall in each closet. though. 

I was going to put in a jbox at around 6½' high and run a narrow 6±' flourescent light vertically down the side for better illumination of shelves, etc. The only thing not figured out was the switch type, but maybe something like the Remcon relay switch with surface mount magnets will work since the closet is already finished and trimmed out.

Any ideas? Thanks


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## 220/221 (Oct 9, 2007)

> I think a jamb switch would be better for the money.


Are you kidding me?

A motion fixture is by far the best bet. Jamb switches are a pain to install even in new construction.

Edit:

Crap....someone revived an old post. I hate when that happens.


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## wis_remod (Feb 23, 2009)

*220/221*

sorry


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## CaptChaos (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi Everyone:

I just completed this project at home in my bifold closet doors and it went off without a hitch. I order the magnetic switches from Smarthome via Amazon and the only pointer I have is that the switch DEFINITELY cares which wire is connected to which terminal on the switch, which is not easy to tell since there is no documentation with the switch. The first time I wired it the switch wasn't effective, switching the wires solved the problem. Also, you can purchase the wire needed pretty readily at HD, etc. as thermostat wire.

Thanks,
Cap'n


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## sgbotsford (Dec 1, 2007)

I have a similar problem. In this case I want to put a light in a pantry that had no light in it before. I want to mount the light over the door, shining into the pantry, so to put as much light from the forward side as possible. I've been unable to find a motion detector fixture that has more than 180 degree coverage. Indeed, I've only found one motion detector fixture at all, and it's designed for ceiling mount.

I've followed the discussion on motion sensor and relays. I'd really want to avoid the several watt parasitic load of either a relay or a motion sensor. (We are trying to get the house off grid. Little transformers everywhere add up. ) But I also really don't want to go with these door jamb switches. Clunky. Inelegant. I'd like to find a 120V version of the Edwards 44 roller ball contact switch. Or a round version of a refrigerator door switch, with the spade lugs on the back. I don't understand why this is so hard.


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## sgbotsford (Dec 1, 2007)

*Found the swich. Not code.*

A bunch of companies sell an aftermarket appliance repair switch, model ES15400. It's a round switch with a lip on the front. The design is for use in sheet metal. A spring clip snaps in behind the metal as it is inserted.

The connectors on the back are standard spade lugs.

This sort of switch would be idea for doorjam use. 

1. Drill a 13/16" x 1/16" deep hole to accomdate the rim. 
2. Drill a 3/4" hole through the jamb to accommodate the body.
3. Feed the spade lug leads through the hole, followed by the switch.
4. Use a dab of caulk to hold the switch in place.
5. Run the other ends of the leads into a box and make your connection.

As far as I can find/figure out, this would work perfectly. And it's illegal, not to code. Why not?


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## j lynch (Dec 31, 2011)

google better switch and see what you think. we use them and they work great.


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## sgbotsford (Dec 1, 2007)

@#*$&)(*#
Betterswich starts with a flash intro which has no abort.

After 5 minutes on site, I sent them the following:

Someone on DIYchatroom suggested I check you out.

I go to your site. Watch while a percentage logo gradually increases.

Page loads while I answer another email.

Click products.

Get to look at a bright spot racing around a square. 

Oh. I have to select a particular type of product.

I get a picture.

Click on picture. Get bigger picture.

Where are the specs? Where are the installation directions.
Where is the discussion about suitability?

What power does it draw when not energised?

What is the R.O.I at 10 c/kwhr.

Why should I buy a product from you?

I'm underwhelmed.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

sgbotsford said:


> And it's illegal, not to code. Why not?


Yes, quite illegal and not to code. 
A line voltage switch needs to be in or mounted to, a box. The line voltage terminals and connections must also be in a box.


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## sgbotsford (Dec 1, 2007)

Sigh. Sometimes code is so bound with tradition. It makes sense with the typical switch with exposed terminals. But consider: A 'line switch' in a lamp cord is legal. You know the plastic oblong with a rocker switch on it. This ES15400 switch is legal in a stove, which I would argue has a more serious operating environment.

I could see some sense in rephrasing the code to be that "any exposed terminal must be in a box" "Any insulated terminal must be capable of withstanding a pull force of X pounds. Any wire terminal system NOT in a box must be build so that there is no shock hazard if the terminal wire is disconnected from the device. 

This would enable a switch that either has some form of plug, or permanently wired leads.

Ultimately I don't care if it's legal. I'm in a jurisdiction that doesn't require building permits for renovations. I do care if it's safe. Is using an insulated spade lug connected round switch rated for the appropriate current and voltage outside of a metal box safe? If not, explain the hazard.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

sgbotsford said:


> This ES15400 switch is legal in a stove, which I would argue has a more serious operating environment.


Yeah, an environment conceived and designed by engineers, and one that is all metal with lots of open wiring with the housing. It is like one big electrical box.






sgbotsford said:


> *Ultimately I don't care if it's legal.* I'm in a jurisdiction that doesn't require building permits for renovations. I do care if it's safe. Is using an insulated spade lug connected round switch rated for the appropriate current and voltage outside of a metal box safe? If not, explain the hazard.


Then you sir are a fool. Codes are in place for safety. If you do it to code then it WILL be safe. Guaranteed. Ultimately the rest of us DO care if it is legal, ESPECIALLY with regard to advising others, which is what this board is all about.

If think that the code minimum is too strict for you, and that you know so much better, great....for you. Just DO NOT come here and try to justify your cavalier ways with regard to codes and safety rules. This will NOT fly, I assure you that.


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## sgbotsford (Dec 1, 2007)

Yes. Doing it to code is safe. An outside plug (say on a patio) has to be GFCI protected. Unless it is over 6 feet from the ground. Then you can use an ordinary plug. Makes lots of sense. Joe Blow's frayed cord hedge trimmer is less likely to zap him just because he's plugged in 6 feet up?

A kitchen plug has to be split between top and bottom on different circults. The justification for this is NOT safety, it's convenience. Heavy duty appliances tend to collect in one location. Having split outlets reduces the chance of tripping the breaker. BUT This means if you choose to do a reno you cannot use commercially available (and inexpensive) GCFI plugs. Fortunately I had an intelligent electrical inspector who said that my using TWO outlets at each location, each with a GCFI was acceptable.

A buried cable has to be so many inches below the surface -- unless protected by a board, in which case it's a bunch fewer inches. What possible protection will the board be in 20 years? When I had to replace the cable to my well, I ended up replacing a direct burrial line that was 12" below the surface with one taht was 30 inches below the surface AND I ran it through 1" PE pipe to try to protect it from the same pocket gophers that had broken the previous line.

Code does NOT require the outlets and breaker panels be labeled. But every time I work on a system, I label both ends of everything I work on -- the breaker panel with the region dealt with, the switch or outlet or fixture with the number of the breaker.

I've run into a lot of light switches wired into the neutral line, instead of the hot line. Which means that Joe Blow turns off the light to extract the broken off base of a light bulb. Zott! In some places this is contrary to code. In some places it's required by code. In some places code is silent.

I read and use the box fill tables. But really, I've never been able to get into a box the number of connections that the tables claim. 

Our code says everything screwed to a single ground screw in the box. Must vary by jurisdiction since all the boxes sold here have two ground screws in them. One code says that an outlet's ground wire must be connected by a pig tail to the ground screw. Another says that it's ok to run the ground to the box screw then to the plug screw.

Code by itself doesn't make it safe. Doing it to code reduces a lot of the risks. But code is NOT the only safe way to do things. A lot of it makes sense. I use a book called "Alberta Code Simplified" which is basically residental and farm code with explanations. The author of the book admits some of the code is arbitrary and makes things neither easier nor safer, but cautions, "do it this way because the inspector will demand that it be done this way."

Anyway, back to my original question: What is the thinking behind the necessity of a box? Why is this plug unsafe. Please don't rant that it's not code. I know that. Explain to me what the risk is.


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

sgbotsford said:


> Yes. Doing it to code is safe. An outside plug (say on a patio) has to be GFCI protected. Unless it is over 6 feet from the ground. Then you can use an ordinary plug. Makes lots of sense. Joe Blow's frayed cord hedge trimmer is less likely to zap him just because he's plugged in 6 feet up?


Check the code more closer on that part even with over 6 feet there is some local code addment which they will still requried RCD ( GFCI for ya ) and ya think 6 feet up above with frayed cord is less likely to zap ya ?? think again the electrique source will find all means to conduct it.

There is a reason why we have to use the RCD it don't matter if you are in North Americiane side or European side the rules still stand.




> A kitchen plug has to be split between top and bottom on different circults. The justification for this is NOT safety, it's convenience. Heavy duty appliances tend to collect in one location. Having split outlets reduces the chance of tripping the breaker. BUT This means if you choose to do a reno you cannot use commercially available (and inexpensive) GCFI plugs. Fortunately I had an intelligent electrical inspector who said that my using TWO outlets at each location, each with a GCFI was acceptable.


The Canada electrique code do allow the split recpetales as long it is on 15 amp with two pole RCD breaker that is clear cut on Canada code.

Most modern kitchen and remodels kitchen if they are wise with code it will have more than two circuits per codes requirement.




> A buried cable has to be so many inches below the surface -- unless protected by a board, in which case it's a bunch fewer inches. What possible protection will the board be in 20 years? When I had to replace the cable to my well, I ended up replacing a direct burrial line that was 12" below the surface with one taht was 30 inches below the surface AND I ran it through 1" PE pipe to try to protect it from the same pocket gophers that had broken the previous line.


The code will required X numbers of inches or mm depth for direct burial cable or in conduit the X numbers will varies a bit.




> Code does NOT require the outlets and breaker panels be labeled. But every time I work on a system, I label both ends of everything I work on -- the breaker panel with the region dealt with, the switch or outlet or fixture with the number of the breaker.


That fine you can mark it and have it labeled however it become a good habit to label all the circuits and it is in the code saying indentify the circuits and source as well if you have standby generator in there.



> I've run into a lot of light switches wired into the neutral line, instead of the hot line. Which means that Joe Blow turns off the light to extract the broken off base of a light bulb. Zott! In some places this is contrary to code. In some places it's required by code. In some places code is silent.


Yeah I have see it all the time when someone do not understand the electrique system that useally tell us there is a issue going on.

Now for the last two part what you say .,, Connries.,,, it is required by the codes and you should be up the speed with 2011 NEC code book that will get ya.



> I read and use the box fill tables. But really, I've never been able to get into a box the number of connections that the tables claim.


Which box fill tables you used ? The NEC or CEC ( Canada Electrique Code ) ?




> Our code says everything screwed to a single ground screw in the box. Must vary by jurisdiction since all the boxes sold here have two ground screws in them. One code says that an outlet's ground wire must be connected by a pig tail to the ground screw. Another says that it's ok to run the ground to the box screw then to the plug screw.


You may not reading the code right and the way you describe that is Canadian code verison which I can tell.,, 




> Code by itself doesn't make it safe. Doing it to code reduces a lot of the risks. But code is NOT the only safe way to do things. A lot of it makes sense. I use a book called "Alberta Code Simplified" which is basically residental and farm code with explanations. The author of the book admits some of the code is arbitrary and makes things neither easier nor safer, but cautions, "do it this way because the inspector will demand that it be done this way."


We do have couple of Canandian electricians in this fourm and they will confirm this question with that part so they will know it.



> Anyway, back to my original question: What is the thinking behind the necessity of a box? Why is this plug unsafe. Please don't rant that it's not code. I know that. Explain to me what the risk is.


Very simple .,, for your own safety and when something go bad it will contain inside that box to prevent spread out fire and I have see some electrical box got damaged when something got loose or whatever it did happend in there.

The risk is very low if you did follow the codes due you are in Canada then you have to follow the Canadian codes end of the Connries .,,

Merci,
Marc


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## Jb2 (Dec 28, 2012)

*automatic closet light*

i know of a very good product, you can use it on one door closets or two door, they have one with 15 minute delay and one with 60 minute delay

http://gofunctionalgreen.com/closetlightcontrol.html


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## Jb2 (Dec 28, 2012)

i know of a very good product, you can use it on one door closets or two door, they have one with 15 minute delay and one with 60 minute delay

http://gofunctionalgreen.com/closetlightcontrol.html


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