# spackle over caulking prevents cracks from recurring?



## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

You are better off with just the spackle. Spackle over caulk will just make the spackle fall out of the cracks. Spackle wants a hard surface to bond to, not a flexible one like caulk.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you seen the You Tube videos with guys showing how to turn common metal into pure 24K gold?

Hint. Hint.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

In restoring exterior woods that would have to be milled and shaped, I use epoxy products. Abatron is my go to supplier for such things but there are other companies around the marine world good too. 

Wood epoxy will end up stronger than the wood itself. But to use it on facia like yours? $$$$. Why not just replace the facia if it is on its way to being shot. Will cost you less in the long run than trying to fix it with spackle, caulking, epoxy or whatever.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

You dont want to put spackle outside anyway, it's an interior product, caulk will not crack if you use the good stuff, the $1.99 a tube stuff is garbage. Fact is, wood expands and contracts with humidity and temperature, you can't stop this and if you put something hard in open expansion cracks of the wood it can't shrink back where it was and this makes more cracks. Good paintable caulk will stay and move with the board.


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

so we're talking about Dap Dynaflex stuff?

That Dap Alex Plus (with silicone) is crap too, right?




sdsester said:


> . Why not just replace the facia if it is on its way to being shot. Will cost you less in the long run than trying to fix it with spackle, caulking, epoxy or whatever.


It's not shot. just cracked and weathered. I was hoping to use a putty knife and shove in as much caulking as I could.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

pman6 said:


> so we're talking about Dap Dynaflex stuff?
> 
> That Dap Alex Plus (with silicone) is crap too, right?
> 
> It's not shot. just cracked and weathered. I was hoping to use a putty knife and shove in as much caulking as I could.


Cracked and weathered _IS_ basically shot because you are here wanting to know how to FIX it. Any kind of caulk or filler you put in is going to eventually sooner or later crack again that's the reality of wood. It might just be a bad board from the lumber mill, one whose grain and all is in a poor orientation angle, I have seen this in boards, you get one board that either came from a bad tree, or it was cut poorly at the mill and it's the one board in the stack you get that wants to twist like hell, cup, warp, split, or close up on the table saw blade when you try ripping it to width.

I have heard that trees exposed to a lot of wind tend to grow wood that can be problematic due to all the stresses in it when it was in the tree, true or not I don't know, but I have seen boards that are just poor from the start and yours could be one of those.

Patch and paint, and plan on doing it again, or replace with a new board, or cover it over with something.

Your board is fairly wide, it's nailed up there and what's happening in part anyway is the board is wanting to shrink and expand and all the nails are
partially preventing it, so the weakest part gives out first- where the grain is, or a previous crack which will lengthen and expand, or where a small crack was started by careless nailing, or open pores such as found in oak will widen up.
A couple of good heavy coats of paint will probably cover/fill a lot of the smaller cracks anyway.


> Caulk by itself will crack. Spackle by itself will crack. But spackle over caulk won't crack, according to these guys.


Don't believe everything you read on the internet and that's one of them, who the heck comes up with this stuff?? spackle is extremely soft, easy to break up and it's certainly not weather resistant! Spackle cannot adhere to caulk any more than oil and water mix, spackle also can't just be globbed in and left in thick section it wont dry, it also shrinks.
A good silicone based caulk adheres well and doesn't just crack, but you need the paintable stuff and I don't know what if any 100% silicone caulks are paintable.


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

My Doctor is painting his own home DYI (who knows why), and he was telling me at my last visit that he has been using spackle and caulk mixed together to make a semi- flexible, semi-sandable, filler for similar things to what your describing. He was very excited about the results. 
I don't know where he got this idea (Internet forum maybe?), but whatever works, I didn't argue with him. 
I'm not crazy about using spackle of any kind outside, think I would stick with caulk. Because as stated, anything that's not flexible is likely to fall/crack out over time. 
As far as using both, I would assume the idea is for the caulk to lend flexibility to the spackle.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Jmayspaint said:


> My Doctor is painting his own home DYI (who knows why), and he was telling me at my last visit that he has been using spackle and caulk mixed together to make a semi- flexible, semi-sandable, filler for similar things to what your describing. He was very excited about the results.
> I don't know where he got this idea (Internet forum maybe?), but whatever works, I didn't argue with him.
> I'm not crazy about using spackle of any kind outside, think I would stick with caulk. Because as stated, anything that's not flexible is likely to fall/crack out over time.
> As far as using both, I would assume the idea is for the caulk to lend flexibility to the spackle.


Doctors know everything and are omnipotent so he must be right. And after years of free cruises from pharmaceutical companies filling in knowlege of concoctions because the doc only took one quarter of pharmacology in med school? I can see him falling for some mix of caulking and spackle.

I can see his precious arse falling off a ladder too. Nothing against the thrill of DIY but I had a seven figure income, I would not be painting the exterior of my own. 

Two docs in my extended family now. I can tolerate them over the boring accountants and lawyers though. 

Once introduced extended care facilities for a major Chicago Hospital. Our in-house terminology almost made it to signage but the docs had some problems with both "Quack in a Shack" and "Doc in a Box".


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

don't knock it till you try it.

I will try a small area with caulk and joint compound mix. See what results I get, and maybe i'll post back in a year.
Not going to do the whole fascia though.

kinda reminds me of those stucco crack sanded caulks.


If I only need paintable silicone caulk, then DAP Alex Plus meets that criteria, and it's only ~$2 a tube. The general acrylic painters caulk is 50 cents cheaper.

The premium stuff is $4 a tube, and is more elastic acrylic.


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

pman6 said:


> don't knock it till you try it.
> 
> I will try a small area with caulk and joint compound mix. See what results I get, and maybe i'll post back in a year.
> Not going to do the whole fascia though.
> ...


DAP Alex Plus isn't what it used to be. I opt for the Sherwin Williams stuff now. BTW, I think i mentioned this in the last thread, if you knew how easy and not too expensive it is to replace those we wouldn't even be having this thread.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Matthewt1970 said:


> DAP Alex Plus isn't what it used to be. I opt for the Sherwin Williams stuff now. BTW, I think i mentioned this in the last thread, if you knew how easy and not too expensive it is to replace those we wouldn't even be having this thread.


You are saying spending 10 minutes to take down failing 1x facia, selling for $3 a board foot is cheaper than getting up their and spending a weekend with some mix of fillers?:thumbup:


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

sdsester said:


> You are saying spending 10 minutes to take down failing 1x facia, selling for $3 a board foot is cheaper than getting up their and spending a weekend with some mix of fillers?:thumbup:


And I think it's cheaper than that.


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

trust me. It's not easy, and it's a two man job.

The fascias are 2x8's. Not your 10 minute job. I already replaced 20 feet on another side of the house, and it's not quick.

The gables are even trickier with the drip edging, and no rafters.

douglas fir 2x8x12's run $11 a piece, and I need about 6 of them. plus all the labor.

I could finish a caulk and patch job way faster


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## Matthewt1970 (Sep 16, 2008)

pman6 said:


> trust me. It's not easy, and it's a two man job.
> 
> The fascias are 2x8's. Not your 10 minute job. I already replaced 20 feet on another side of the house, and it's not quick.
> 
> ...


Are you sure those are 2x8's


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

100% sure. I changed some a year ago due to rot.

they're a bi*** to hammer off the rafters. That's a can of worms right there.


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## jagans (Oct 21, 2012)

Why dont you just clad it with color matched .032 Aluminum, then you can forget about it.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I have to express my deep love for roofers and siders who think cladding over the top of failing rotting wood is a solution. And OP you expressed there are problems with the roof structure itself too. I will let the roofers jump in and comment and whether you should be thinking of putting on bandaid on that issue.

The two wood restoration products from Abatron are amazing. Step one you carve out all failed wood and use a liquified expoxy to seal what is left. Then you use an expoxy paste to fill everthing in. End product will be more than paintable and stronger than the wood around it. 

But again are you sure you want to repair cracking and splitting facia? Not quite sure why it needs to be 2 inches thick, by the way.


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

Matthewt1970 said:


> Are you sure those are 2x8's


Yeah they look like 1x8 and 1x6s to me in the picture


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> and he was telling me at my last visit that he has been using spackle and caulk mixed together to make a semi- flexible, semi-sandable, filler for similar things to what your describing. .


Then he must be using a caulk that is the clean up with water type stuff or something because good silicone caulk trying to mix in water based spackle is going to be like trying to mix water with oil.
He may be thrilled now but again, spackle is just cheap soft interior patching compound, it was never meant to be used outdoors or in the weather.

Here's what is in Dap spackling compound, it's water based and is basically ground up calcium carbonate-- like plaster which itself is also not an exterior material:


ChemicalCAS No / Unique IDPercent Ethylene glycol000107-21-10.1-1 Calcium carbonate (Limestone)001317-65-360-100 Water007732-18-5
Mica012001-26-20.5-1.5 Attapulgite012174-11-70.1-1 Quartz014808-60-70.1-1


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## RWolff (Jan 27, 2013)

pman6 said:


> don't knock it till you try it.
> 
> I will try a small area with caulk and joint compound mix


I do knock it and refuse to try it because as a sculptor I have had years of experience with all kinds of plasters, gypsum products and concrete, I also know when you use an interior only product outside in the rain it will decay rapidly, in fact I have several sculptures made from USG hydrocal gypsum cement sitting outside as tests and they have been slowly disolving like sugar cubes do.

I have this photo handy of a plaster corbel left out in the rain in the garden, you can see what happens, no matetr how much paint you apply the plaster absobs water, the paint comes off, the material starts disolving, spackle would be even worse:













> If I only need paintable silicone caulk, then DAP Alex Plus meets that criteria, and it's only ~$2 a tube. The general acrylic painters caulk is 50 cents cheaper.


There's where people get into trouble, they think in terms of what is the CHEAPEST stuff to use, you are talking about <$20 in costs here for caulk and you want to save 50 cents a tube or $2 a tube going with the CHEAPER stuff?
Don't go with CHEAP caulk unless you want to redo it again in a year or two, cheap caulk is cheap for a reason- it's garbage.
It doesn't matter if the caulk is $15 a tube to get the GOOD stuff, chances are you wont need more than a couple of tubes at most for what I see in the pic anyway.
Do it right the first time with quality materials, or mark my word you'll be redoing it all over again in short order.


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## pman6 (Jul 11, 2012)

oh, I'm not buying the cheap stuff.
I have the premium DAP Ultra 230 ordered.
I'm not doing this over again.


It's interesting that the datasheets for these caulks advise against using them for surface defects like these wood cracks.

But a product like dupont elastomeric patch can be used for surface defects..... 

http://www2.dupont.com/Caulk/en_US/applications/elastomeric_patch/applying_elastomeric_patch.html


I also found another elastomeric patch made by custom building products
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Phenopatch-10-1-oz-Elastomeric-Custom-Patch-12274/100493599#.UaV28LU3uHc



> Permanently get rid of recurring cracks with this high-performance Phenopatch 10.1 oz. Elastomeric Custom Patch. It offers a durable, flexible fill to resist cracking, crumbling or falling out.
> 
> Eliminates recurring cracks in brick, plaster and wood by providing a permanently flexible fill


says it's permanently flexible. It sounds exactly like the caulking/spackle mix discussed a few posts back.
It goes on like caulk, but it's sandable.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

RWolff said:


> Here's what is in Dap spackling compound, it's water based and is basically ground up calcium carbonate-- like plaster which itself is also not an exterior material:


Careful. But you grabbed the jest of it all. Interior caulks and spackle will fail on exterior surfaces.

Those of us who have mixed plaster for interior and exterior surfaces. Will stand by them inside or outside. Baking soda patching plaster? Nobody resonsible uses that stuff inside or out.


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## marianlibrarian (Mar 5, 2011)

*Call Dap*

Why dont you crazy people call the manufacturer and ask what to use? Dap has a whole line of exterior products and their "doctors" are chemistry Phds. I am painting a cracked fascia just like that one and am skimming an exterior Dap product called crack shot over he badly cracked areas and trying to remove the excess so only the crack is filled--so it is not a skim coat. I am using Valspar Duramax paint which claims to bridge fine cracks. My third house with Duramax but first time to spackle fascia. I didnt use the lastomeric spackle becuse I dont want the substrate to be more flexible than the paint, although I believe Duramax has elastomeric properties. I am sure it will work okay but I want 15 years out of this job. I also chose a lighter fascia color because the sun on the dark fascia is probably part of the problem. 35 year old house with original fascia.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

big strech


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## HighGlossPL38 (Nov 19, 2013)

*Zinsser Ready Patch Spackling and Patching Compound*



pman6 said:


> http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/spackle-over-caulk-8589/
> 
> 
> Just found that on google.
> ...


I realize this is a very old post and your problem has likely been solved one way or another.
But I thought I'd toss this in here for reference.
Ever hear of Zinsser Ready Patch Spackling and Patching Compound?
Pretty good stuff and I use it a lot. Sandable and paintable, interior or exterior, cures hard. I had a similar problem with the fascia on this place along with having a million nail holes to patch after removing various old layers of siding over original clapboard on this city owned project wanted done.(well, not a million but it took 3 guys 2 days to patch them all, there were a whole lot of holes, 2 story 4 apartment with a store in the front)
This is a yuppy type neighborhood with a lot of strange looking houses, this one was dark brown with hot purple trim.
Why they picked this green color I will never understand, but hey, do you!
HomeDepot carries it and it's cheap enough. After 3 years this place is still looking great. And no blemishes or shrinkage from the Ready Patch.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

RWolff said:


> You dont want to put spackle outside anyway, it's an interior product, caulk will not crack if you use the good stuff, the $1.99 a tube stuff is garbage.


Bingo


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

pman6 said:


> so we're talking about Dap Dynaflex stuff?
> 
> That Dap Alex Plus (with silicone) is crap too, right?


DAP Dynaflex is not crap, and it's not $1.99 a tube. However it's the minimum I'd use exterior. Alex Plus is below the minimum. Alex Ultra 230 is the same as Dynaflex 230, but it has mold inhibitors. If I thought it would actually get rained on, I'd use a polyurethane caulk.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

2x fascia would be unusual. The Abatron epoxy is excellent stuff and has saved the day more than once for me.


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