# concrete driveway resurface



## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

I'd like to resurface my driveway (the concrete is sound but it looks BAD!)
"quikrete" makes a pretty good resurface product but it costs quite a bit. ($21.50 for a 40# bag at HD) wonder why it's so expensive? should be only portland cement and some other stuff. maybe it's that other "stuff" that makes the cost high? it dries awfully fast!
anyway, is their any wisdom to making your own? I've read where you can combine portland cement and sand to make a topping that goes on rather thin (1/16 inch) and doesn't need to be worked quickly like the "quikrete" product. for that matter,what about using "quikrete sand mix"?

tnx,


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## stubborn1 (Oct 24, 2008)

With a limited depth application (1/16"), you are going to have a hard time getting anything to hold up long term - especially in a freeze/thaw climate. You could overlay the existing concrete with asphalt or replace the concrete with new concrete- anything else will just be a bandaid.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

disagree w/poster # 2,,, didn't you do your porch last yr or more recently ?

we resurface regularly but use nothing from any apron store,,, freeze/thaw isn't an issue, either, & our thickness is .125",, we pay about $40 for 60# bag which will resurface 175-200sf depending on existing surface,,, you can ' roll your own ' mix however you'll need the correct polymers to do it right & they're not avail from any apron store.

if you think the price's expensive now, wait til you have to do it over again - soon,,, as before, prep is the key to success.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

itsreallyconc said:


> disagree w/poster # 2,,, didn't you do your porch last yr or more recently ?
> 
> we resurface regularly but use nothing from any apron store,,, freeze/thaw isn't an issue, either, & our thickness is .125",, we pay about $40 for 60# bag which will resurface 175-200sf depending on existing surface,,, you can ' roll your own ' mix however you'll need the correct polymers to do it right & they're not avail from any apron store.
> 
> if you think the price's expensive now, wait til you have to do it over again - soon,,, as before, prep is the key to success.


what's that stuff called? is it only available to pro's? (which I'm NOT obviously,but I have a friend who is )

tnx,


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

generically, its a polymer-modified cementitious overlay mtl - we use elitecrete but you need to be licensed to buy it,,, concretenetwork.com will have plenty of sources,,, be careful you don't wind up w/acrylic-only based mtls as they do have a short life


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

was at a local store and happened to notice the concrete sidewalks around the front. looks like somebody did a "resurface" job on the concrete and it DOES NOT look good. the "topping" (about 1/8) was coming up at the edges. maybe whoever did it just didn't prep the surface well? or might this be what happens when you've got a climate like here in colo. springs? (plenty of freeze/thaw cycles)

tnx,


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

no idea but guess poor prep &/or poorly applied mtls,,, i'll bet it wasn't an eliteCrete installer, tho,,, take a look on concretelocator.com,,, you should see the front of our local sher-wms store,,, their mtls + their labor = looks like ***t


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

i don't mind being quoted in other forums however i do ask you be accurate,,, probably help if you would've also been judicious in your choice of words :thumbsup:


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

still curious why jo thanks an inaccurate post ? ? ? did someone **** in his wheaties again ?


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

what in h**l got your jockey shorts tied up in a knot,conc?
here's the "offending" post,anyone want to comment?

going to resurface my driveway.
I understand "elitecrete" makes a resurface product.easy to use? how much generally per bag? coverage at 1/8"? somebody in another forum who's a pro, says I can't buy it, have to get somebody licensed to buy it for me. ^
(maybe you wanted "I'll")

tnx,


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## forresth (Feb 19, 2010)

I trird some of the quickcrete stuff on a sidewalk that was sound, just pitted and sunk down. it didn't last a year.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

here's the link so everyone can read it - http://concretelocator.yuku.com/topic/9309/t/concrete-driveway-resurface.html -,,, we, as licensees, do NOT buy our products for resale & use by the uninitiated but ONLY as necessary for inclusion on our work.

in this diy chatroom thread, i mention'd its, generically, a polymer-modified cementitious overlay product,,, there are others on the mkt - just not as acceptable im-n-s-h-fo,,, capish ??????????????


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

itsreallyconc said:


> still curious why jo thanks an inaccurate post ? ? ? did someone **** in his wheaties again ?


 
Nope, no Wheaties involved. Just don't believe a "homade" micro-topping is feasible, much less any resurfacing work done as DIY. I've seen more fail here done by "pro's: than I've seen suceed, and for a cost that isn't much more than total replacement. Sorry to say IRC, but our climate isn't condusive to "layered" concrete.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

jomama45 said:


> Nope, no Wheaties involved. Just don't believe a "homade" micro-topping is feasible, much less any resurfacing work done as DIY. I've seen more fail here done by "pro's: than I've seen suceed, and for a cost that isn't much more than total replacement. Sorry to say IRC, but our climate isn't condusive to "layered" concrete.


hmm...the climate in Georgia IS a heck of a lot milder than either CS or Wisconsin. just might be that the resurfacing done at that local store I mentioned, was done by a pro and simply FAILED! I'm going to look into getting the whole driveway replaced.:thumbsup: 

tnx,


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

just wondering: if I decide to get the whole driveway replaced, somebody'll have to breakup and dispose of the old one. my friend says he breaks up old driveways by slipping the forks of a "fork-lift" under the concrete and raising the forks. is this feasible when there's reinforcing in the 'crete? is this something better left to somebody else?

tnx,


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

I'm not sure about the fork-lift part, but we certainly use the pallet forks on our skid loaders most of the time, reinforced or not.


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

when you think about it, I'll bet that a "heavy-duty" fork-lift is every bit as powerful as a "bobcat" considering what they have to lift like a pallet loaded with 80# bags of "sakrete".:thumbsup:

tnx,


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

you have discovered the true purpose of wire or steel in driveways,,, it makes it more expensive to remove :laughing: we use a gp bucket & 16# sledge OR bosch brute hammer - makes it easier to load & pack the rolloff containers.

no specifying agency recommends wire or steel in a 4" thick d/w to my knowledge since you need to have it at the vertical midpoint +/- 5%,,, that equates to .1"which's almost impossible after the conc jabonies finish trampling back & forth,,, we do place #4 bar at the throat, however, to add flexural strength from shock/spring rebound from cars.

there are many guys successfully o'laying conc in freeze/thaw climes, jo,,, eliteCrete doesn't just sell in warm parts of the country,,, expansion/contractions is a much a problem here in the s as anywhere else.

ixnay on sackrete/quikcrete, tho,,, enjoy your holiday, guys !


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

analogmusicman said:


> when you think about it, I'll bet that a "heavy-duty" fork-lift is every bit as powerful as a "bobcat" considering what they have to lift like a pallet loaded with 80# bags of "sakrete".:thumbsup:
> 
> tnx,


It really depends on what kind of forklift you're talking about. A solid tire wharehouse forklift willl lift better no doubt, but it will be stuck instantly as soon as you get off of the pavement. If you mean an off-road forklift, then yes, that would work as well. I still think either a skid loader or excavator is going ot be alot more efficient.



itsreallyconc said:


> you have discovered the true purpose of wire or steel in driveways,,, it makes it more expensive to remove :laughing: we use a gp bucket & 16# sledge OR bosch brute hammer - makes it easier to load & pack the rolloff containers.
> 
> no specifying agency recommends wire or steel in a 4" thick d/w to my knowledge since you need to have it at the vertical midpoint +/- 5%,,, that equates to .1"which's almost impossible after the conc jabonies finish trampling back & forth,,, we do place #4 bar at the throat, however, to add flexural strength from shock/spring rebound from cars.
> 
> ...


 
Ditto on everyone enjoying their holiday. :thumbup:


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## dcsinc (Nov 3, 2009)

*overlays*

Guys, I've followed this post and will put my 2 cents in here. Polymer overlays have come a long way. Gone are the days of throwing a little paint and cement together and smearing it on a slab of concrete. Why do you think a whole bunch of these "manufactures" are in cozy warm climate areas? Their crap can't hold up to the freeze/thaw cycles we have in the upper midwest. There's good-bad-and ugly out there. 

Most systems require a "binder" applied and their acrylic, poly vinyl acetate or styrene fortified overlay placed atop of this "glue". They are getting a mechanical bond much how paint sticks..... and we all know how well paint sticks to concrete. 

I'm an 8 year installer of Elite Crete Systems overlay products. I've NEVER had a failure due to freeze/thaw. In fact, I've never had a failure due to the products. I've had 2 call backs and they were due to excess grinding of 2 pieces of concrete at a control joint. It popped off a little section of a Thin Stamped overlay. It took a whole thimble full of product to repair.

The problem with failing overlays are impropper surface prep and improper product installation.... and of course improper choice of products. 

I've been a concrete contractor for over 40 years, half of which has been in the decorative arena. I now only accept "difficult projects" and have been teaching this for 4 years. (I thought teaching would be easier) boy was I wrong..... anyway, jomama, come to one of my trainings. Stop by in Indy and I'll take you for a tour of my past projects. Elite Crete has tackled the freeze/thaw with a hybrid polymer additive. (They are manufactured in northern Indiana). As with any trade/product, it's the bad apples of the group that spoils the whole basket. gene


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

dcsinc said:


> Guys, I've followed this post and will put my 2 cents in here. Polymer overlays have come a long way. Gone are the days of throwing a little paint and cement together and smearing it on a slab of concrete. Why do you think a whole bunch of these "manufactures" are in cozy warm climate areas? Their crap can't hold up to the freeze/thaw cycles we have in the upper midwest. There's good-bad-and ugly out there.
> 
> Most systems require a "binder" applied and their acrylic, poly vinyl acetate or styrene fortified overlay placed atop of this "glue". They are getting a mechanical bond much how paint sticks..... and we all know how well paint sticks to concrete.
> 
> ...


 
I appreciate the offer, but I'll have to kindly pass. I went through a clinic with a veteran installer/sales rep from Solomon/Legacy a few years ago. It took place at a ready-mix suppliers yard. Ironically, one of the pieces he had overlayed during his demo the year before was already de-laminating. That was enough for me. I've got enough headaches, I don't need anymore. And most importantly, there is little to no market here for the system from what I can see.


I'll just let the OP get quotes on each process here and let him make his decision, as I don't think there will be a substantial difference in cost between the 2.


And dcs, Welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around and put your "2 cents" in on more topics in the future. I feel the more opinions present here, the better. :thumbsup:


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## dcsinc (Nov 3, 2009)

I agree with you this isn't a project that a home owner goes to Menard's and get the crap they sell off the shelf. That's why Elite Crete only sells to certified installers. 

As far as the sales rep that did the "dog and pony show" Is this the same guy that moved on to Butterfield? I'm not going to bad mouth other product lines out there. I can tell you the major differences though. 

Anyway, don't be so closed minded on product lines available. One just needs to do their home work first. And yes, I've seen many a masonry project go belly up before it's time also. 

As with any decorative project, there's maintenance involved to keep it viable. You keep your new car cleaned and waxed don't you? Same does with any surface that takes wear and tear. Usually just a reseal every 2 or 3 years is all that's needed. Our products are more salt/corrosive resistant than concrete but as with any material, if you drag your boat anchor across it, you will scratch it. (Which is easy to fix). 

You'd be surprised by how many overlays are being installed in your area. In fact, I could call the local EC Distributor near you and get the exact numbers..... and that's just Elite Crete's stuff. Hey, I was the hardest guy to sell smearing some peanut butter over concrete and putting my name on it. After learning just how this product achieves a mechanical and chemical bond, and my own abusive experiments, I changed my mind. 

OK, enough bantering. I will swing in on occasion and see if I can help. Thanks, gene


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## analogmusicman (Feb 4, 2008)

so, the big question is: "how does the Quikrete topping product stack up against Elite-crete or is there no comparison?"

tnx,


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

I dunno...but I need my concrete pool deck resurfaced
So as soon as you find something & test it for a while let me know


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

how does it compare,,, lessee, if you find it in an apron store, that should answer your question fully,,, eg - you do know they sell sump pumps, right ? then why do most waterproofing pro's use the zoeller m-53 which's more expensive than comparable flo-tecs.

eliteCrete isn't as big compared to schofield, sher-wms, or some others in the dec conc o'lay & wanna-be craft,,, many of the manufacturing companies have gone tits-up or been swallowed by others,,, true, there are guys out there who can do good work using other's stuff,,, but, if i truly felt i wasn't using the best mtl & method, we'd switch in a heartbeat,,, fact of the matter is, there ain't !

the point made about this item being diy-h/o is a good 1,,, while many have the untapped raw ability, they lack proper training, knowledge, experience, materials, equipment, & attitude to do the work right,,, however, even a blind pig finds an ear of corn once in awhile :laughing:

jo, have known gene & his work for almost 10yrs but we just met face-to-face last yr at world of conc when he was 1 of 10 invited artists/artisans/demonstrators in the dec lot/arena,,, good guy,,, so are the others in boston & across the country,,, it really has become a brotherhood :thumbup:


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## jomama45 (Nov 13, 2008)

dcsinc said:


> As far as the sales rep that did the "dog and pony show" Is this the same guy that moved on to Butterfield? I'm not going to bad mouth other product lines out there. I can tell you the major differences though.
> 
> I'd e hard pressed to remember his name, maybe his face if I saw it though. I do recall he was formerly an installer in Illinois before he took the job.
> 
> ...


I hope you do return, I appreciate learning new things myself. :thumbup:



itsreallyconc said:


> jo, have known gene & his work for almost 10yrs but we just met face-to-face last yr at world of conc when he was 1 of 10 invited artists/artisans/demonstrators in the dec lot/arena,,, good guy,,, so are the others in boston & across the country,,, it really has become a brotherhood :thumbup:


I really have no reason to doubt the knowledge, talent, or quality of either you or Gene. Merely stating my own opinion, and hope it didn't come off as being harsh.


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## stadry (Jun 20, 2009)

not harsh at all,,, there's tons of jabonies out there & we've certainly got our share here in atl :laughing:

have often thought about that - hard to blemish a broom'd surface,,, but once its decorated by whatever method, conc becomes ' art we walk or drive on ' & something else around the house to take care of, right ? :thumbup:


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