# Type of primer for ceiling patches?



## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

In addition, I have 3 patches I'm covering up on the ceiling. One has a brown water stain and the other two are patches w mud over. 

The questions I'm wondering are:

1) What type of primer should I use to spot prime the 3 patches? ( kilz2 or zinn 123.. Or something else)

2) Once the spot priming is done should I use that same primer for the entire ceiling? (My ceiling has some thermal tracking where you can see lines where the floor joists are, I wanted to cover that).


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Zinsser 123


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

+2 for Zinnser123. :thumbsup:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I will return the kilz2 and pickup the Zinsser 123. 

I'm going to spot patch the drywall patches that I did, and then prime the entire ceiling/wall. I was going to prime everything I paint because I can see the joist lines on the walls and ceilings now (they haven't been painted in 15+ years). 

Would it make sense to prime the entire ceiling with Zinsser 123 and then do 2 coats of paint on the walls/ceilings? Or do you think that's overkill.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Any alkyd or water based primer will work well on drywall joint compound; it doesn't matter if the drywall joint compound is on a wall or ceiling.

Priming the whole ceiling is unnecessary. I'd prime twice over your drywall patches, and then paint your ceiling. That's because sometimes the primer doesn't seal the joint compound sufficiently, and the result is dull spots in the first coat of paint. It's easier to give the drywall patches two coats of primer than it is to give the whole ceiling two coats of paint.

(I personally don't see the point in painting the ceiling twice, so wait for the first coat of paint to dry and see if any of those joist lines are still showing. If so, then I'd give the ceiling another coat of paint.)


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

I would prime the whole ceiling. Spot priming with 123 under flat ceiling paint runs the risk of flashing. 

From the Zinsser 123 data page;

." Spot priming is recommended only under high-hiding topcoat paints. For best results, prime entire surface before painting."


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> I would prime the whole ceiling. Spot priming with 123 under flat ceiling paint runs the risk of flashing.
> 
> From the Zinsser 123 data page;
> 
> ." Spot priming is recommended only under high-hiding topcoat paints. For best results, prime entire surface before painting."


Would you spot prime the patches and then prime the entire ceiling?

How many coats of primer do you usually do for the spot priming?

I just want to make sure I don't spot prime too much.. if that's even possible.


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## Sir MixAlot (Apr 4, 2008)

cjaustin81 said:


> Would you spot prime the patches and then prime the entire ceiling?
> 
> How many coats of primer do you usually do for the spot priming?
> 
> I just want to make sure I don't spot prime too much.. if that's even possible.


I would.
One coat for spot prime.
:thumbsup:


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## klaatu (Mar 9, 2015)

on the water stain, make sure you let the 123 dry at least four hours before topcoating, per the label instructions. Then hold your breath.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Sir MixAlot said:


> I would.
> One coat for spot prime.
> :thumbsup:


Thanks, I will spot prime the 3 patches (twice for the water stain) and then prime the whole ceiling.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> I would prime the whole ceiling. Spot priming with 123 under flat ceiling paint runs the risk of flashing.
> 
> From the Zinsser 123 data page;
> 
> ." Spot priming is recommended only under high-hiding topcoat paints. For best results, prime entire surface before painting."


exactly:thumbsup::yes:


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've spent a ton of time sanding, and touching up little nicks and imperfections in the mud. The patch feels smooth but when I put this shop light under it I see every area I touched up. 

Not sure how much sanding I can do, I've been using 220. Is this ready to spot prime?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

some of the spot that had nicks/imperfections I touched up. Those areas seem "shinier" than the other areas. Is that going to be an issue when I prime and then paint?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I wanted to get an opinion before I primed. I guess the question is will those differences (patch areas) look ok after I prime?


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## Jmayspaint (May 4, 2013)

cjaustin81 said:


> I wanted to get an opinion before I primed. I guess the question is will those differences (patch areas) look ok after I prime?


The color and sheen variations your seeing wont be a problem. As long as the patch is flat and feels smooth it should be fine. Run your hand across the surface. If you feel any humps or ridges further sanding/patching may be needed. 

When the patching is that extensive it's not uncommon to have to do a little touch up patching after priming. The primer (especially if you use 123 since it has a slight sheen) will help highlight any additional defects that weren't apparent before. 

I'm sure you would prefer to prime it and be done with it. My motto on drywall repair is 'if you can feel it, you will see it.' Though the textural difference between smooth mud and roller stipple is improved by the roller stipple of the primer.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. The patch feels smooth. There's the areas I patched up that I tried my best to feather into the other mud that have the slightest feel when rubbing your hand across but I'm worried if I sand much more that I'll be creating waves. I started w 150 grit but have been using 220 as a finisher before spot priming.

The 220 grit almost feels too smooth, the 150 had some texture in it. This is the first patch I've ever done and I want to get it right so when I prime and paint 2 coats (flat ceiling paint) on it it will look good.

There's a couple areas as you run your hand across that dip ever so slightly but the ceiling bows a touch in those areas. 

Maybe it's best I spot prime now and the see how it looks after, does that sound good? 

Here's how the patch looks in regular light from the ground


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Prime the whole thing, paint it, done.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

I bought some Zinsser 123 and spot primed the patch using almost a quart of it. In one area I may have over rolled it because the primer pulled a small portion of mud w it. I applied the primer about an hour and a half ago but noticed roller marks. This is my first attempt at using a roller. 

Is this because I put it in uneven or over rolled it? Should I patch up that nick, sand, and then reprime?

I used the "best" brand from HD roller pad w 3/8" nap.










Is this still drying? Are these roller marks normal?


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

As it dries I'm noticing some flashing spots. Should I fix the nick, sand that and the rest of the primer, and add mud then re spot prime the entire patch?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yup, patch that spot, then prime it. No need to go over the WHOLE area again. Roller marks are fairly common with a primer that has some sheen to it like 1-2-3. Remember, don't push UP on the roller to squeeze paint out of the roller sleeve. Let the roller do the work. Once it dries completely, the marks won't be noticeable and it doesn't matter much anyway since you will be top coating. For roller sleeves, I prefer a 1/2" because it holds more paint.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thank you. I'm such a rookie w painting but looking to get better. I wasn't putting enough primer in my pan (was worried of using too much) and was using a new roller cover so I kept adding more primer to the tray. Not sure if I got a fully even coat. 

The patch is circle, are you supposed to try to spot prime in a circle? I found that hard to feather. Or do u go one direction?


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jun 17, 2008)

Cjaustin:

Most of trick to doing good plaster and drywall repairs is to work with a bright light shining on your work at a sharp angle to exagerate the roughness; making each glitch stand out like Mount Everest or the Grand Canyon. When you can get your work to look "OK, I guess" under such critical lighting, it'll look "Pretty good, really" under normal lighting. If you can get your work to look "Pretty good, really" under critical lighting, it'll look perfect under normal lighting.

Ceiling repairs are always a big tougher to do because of ceiling mounted light fixtures that exagerate every flaw in your work.

I think the patch of primer and joint compound that came off your ceiling was the result of over rolling with your paint roller. I think what happened was that the moisture from the primer you used softened up the joint compound on your ceiling so that it came off on your roller. Just wait for the primer to dry, and patch that spot just like you would any other WITH a bright light shining at a sharp angle to the ceiling so that you can tell when that patch if flush with the surrounding ceiling.

ANY primer will work for plaster and drywall repairs. I used to use Zinsser Bullseye 123, but I found that I had a problem with this primer pulling off when I pulled masking tape off. I now use an ordinary latex primer made and sold by a local paint company, and it doesn't do that at all. So, I no longer use 123 for anything anymore.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Remember primer is not paint and it won't look like paint when applied. Roller streaks are common with primer and sometimes it looks uneven because it soaks in and seals different between porous and non porous surfaces. Just apply and if the patch looks smooth paint it.

But primer should not have pulled out a patch if it was completely dry. So make sure everything is completely dry before going to the next step.

Just went back and re-read the entire post. The 3/8" nap roller may be contributing to the problem of streaking. They don't hold much paints so it tends to be really thin when you roll it out. Try a 1/2" nap roller cover. And out of curiosity what did you use for your patches joint compound or spackle.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

cjaustin81 said:


> The patch is circle, are you supposed to try to spot prime in a circle? I found that hard to feather. Or do u go one direction?


No, don't prime in a circle, just back and forth in straight lines. Load your paint tray with about a quart, maybe more of primer. Roll and re-roll your roller into the paint to really load it up. When you finally pull the roller up and out to get to the ceiling, it should ALMOST be dripping with paint. I'm hoping you have an extension pole for your roller. It makes painting a whole lot easier.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

ToolSeeker said:


> Remember primer is not paint and it won't look like paint when applied. Roller streaks are common with primer and sometimes it looks uneven because it soaks in and seals different between porous and non porous surfaces. Just apply and if the patch looks smooth paint it.
> 
> But primer should not have pulled out a patch if it was completely dry. So make sure everything is completely dry before going to the next step.
> 
> Just went back and re-read the entire post. The 3/8" nap roller may be contributing to the problem of streaking. They don't hold much paints so it tends to be really thin when you roll it out. Try a 1/2" nap roller cover. And out of curiosity what did you use for your patches joint compound or spackle.


I used hot mud to build the patch up, followed by lightweight joint compound. I let it dry for a week. 









I noticed some areas I patched are rough, should I sand those and re spot prime? (I will be priming the entire ceiling btw after I patch)


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> cjaustin81 said:
> 
> 
> > The patch is circle, are you supposed to try to spot prime in a circle? I found that hard to feather. Or do u go one direction?
> ...


I used an extension (wooden pole). I don't think I loaded enough on the roller. 

Here's how it looks after drying over 12 hours. Should I sand the rough spots, patch, and lightly re spot prime? Or will my regular full ceiling priming fix this? Or do I need to go back and skim coat? 

How long does the primer need to dry before mudding and sanding over?

Notice the differences in patches. You can see a lot of imperfections in mine, especially the rough spots.


















Closeup of rough spot in middle.


















When I prime the full ceiling I will use 1/2".


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

After evaluating the patch it almost appears the sheen variances are due to the smooth vs rough spots in the primer. It looks like some rolls were smoother than others. 

That being said, do I sand and re spot prime to get the sheen out?


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Yes, you can certainly sand to remove any rough spots, in fact, that's what I often do. Priming joint compound makes the surface a little rough, kinda like, fine sandpaper, so definitely sand with a pole sander, a sheet of 220, or, better yet a 3m sanding sponge. You can feel the patch as you go and sand out any rough spots. Just remember to remove any dust/residue with a damp sponge.

Those sheen variances could indeed be because of the smooth vs. rough spots in the primer. Also, it's not unusual to have high and low spots in a ceiling due to any number of factors. Sagging, original drywall finishing wasn't done correctly, etc. and your roller kind of skips over low spots leaving variances also.


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## cjaustin81 (Sep 4, 2014)

Would you re spot prime the whole patch after sanding?


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