# how to install cedar shingle siding?



## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I use 7/16 X 1 ½” Stainless Steel staples on shingles (not shakes) and small (5d) SS ring shank siding nails when the fasteners have to be exposed (under windows, last coarse, etc).

Staples hold better than nails for shingles because the crown of the staple bridges over the grain of the wood to hold it down.

Generally just 2 staples per shingle no more than an inch above the line where the next course will cover. 

There are 4 bundles to a square based on a 5” exposure not counting waste.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

i pretty much do the same as kwik. the smaller the exposure per coure the more shingles you'll need. installing a rain screen behind the shingles first will greatly lengten the life of the shingles, be it via "cedar breather" or privacy lattice


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_7_sec003_par008.htm

Hit "next section" on those pages to read more.

Gary
P.S. You need 16 gauge.....


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## Duckweather (Mar 26, 2012)

As in Audel's Carpenters & Builders Guide (1923), only two nails per shingle no matter what width, 1/2" to 3/4" in from the edge, 1" above the bottom of the next course. (Staples each penetrate twice 2 X 2 = 4 nails and movement causes 4 splits over time). every shingle in the next row should cover both joint and nail of the row below by at least 1/2". Also look at the grain, if there are fuzzy ends pointing up, the ends of the grain allows water to soak into the shingle. Turn the shingle around so water runs out over the grain. Cedar shakes expand & contract with humidity so space them 1/8" or more depending on size, a little more for larger shakes. I have seen a few guys cut the bottom edge 2" in, at a 45 degree angle where the shingle meets the rake so there is no "short grain" to dry and break off


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Duckweather said:


> As in Audel's Carpenters & Builders Guide (1923), only two nails per shingle no matter what width, 1/2" to 3/4" in from the edge, 1" above the bottom of the next course. (Staples each penetrate twice 2 X 2 = 4 nails and movement causes 4 splits over time). every shingle in the next row should cover both joint and nail of the row below by at least 1/2". Also look at the grain, if there are fuzzy ends pointing up, the ends of the grain allows water to soak into the shingle. Turn the shingle around so water runs out over the grain. Cedar shakes expand & contract with humidity so space them 1/8" or more depending on size, a little more for larger shakes. I have seen a few guys cut the bottom edge 2" in, at a 45 degree angle where the shingle meets the rake so there is no "short grain" to dry and break off


The rules have changed since 1923. :wink:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

2 nails will work for smaller shingles but for wider ones you'll need more when they start getting wider than 6" so to keep them lying flat


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I can not stress the point enough that
staples hold sidewall shingles better than nails.

I’ve tore off more than my share of Cedar Shingle Siding and before the new job begins, you prey there nailed. 

Nailed shingles just “pop” off the wall. Tear them off, beat in the nails and done.

Stapled shingles…not so fun. You’re literally breaking the shingles off the wall. You end up with all those staples left with a chunk of Cedar Meat stuck underneath. You have to blast every staple with a cats paw to clean it up.

25 years ago stapled sheathing was ok, not anymore. Stapled Roofing was all the craze for awhile too, you don’t see that anymore (in my area anyway).

For Cedar Sidewall Shingles, nothing holds like staples.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> The rules have changed since 1923. :wink:



what rules have changed?


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## capecodder (Jun 5, 2011)

I dont know much about siding, but I had a question since sometime this summer I need to side a small area above my garage. Ive seen people place a strip of wood across the wooden shakes when installing. I was wondering what the purpose for this is? Im assuming it gets placed to mark where the next row gets installed?


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> what rules have changed?


Well Tom, I guess the answer would be none, since in 1923 there were no rules yet (out West anyway). :laughing:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

staples definitley have holding power in sheathing but severely lacks in shear strenght, they dont keep the plywood for racking.

for roofing they dont have the holding power on asphalt shingles themselves as their isnt enough surface contact to keep the shingle from blowing off


as for sidewall shingles.. ive torn off 100's of squares of cedar off of homes and the nails hold fine if its nailed to t&g boards, now if its osb thats a totally different story


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## RCrosby257 (Jan 24, 2011)

*Nails or Staples*

capecodder,
When I did the siding on our house I'd snap a chalk line for the next course then tack a 1X1/2" strip to the line. That way I could just set the shingle on the ledge and staple it in place. Much easier and quicker than trying to eyeball the bottom edge to the line.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

RCrosby257 said:


> capecodder,
> When I did the siding on our house I'd snap a chalk line for the next course then tack a 1X1/2" strip to the line. That way I could just set the shingle on the ledge and staple it in place. Much easier and quicker than trying to eyeball the bottom edge to the line.


I've never been a fan of that method. Even though it may make it easier for some to maintain a straight line your "tack" still leaves a holes in the siding.

Even if the holes don't penetrate the weather barrier there still visible and shouldn't be there.

I snap lines using "white" chalk and hold the shingle just slightly below that line.

To each there own I guess.


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## capecodder (Jun 5, 2011)

That is kind of what I didnt want, to have small holes where the strip is temporarily fastened. I will try the chalk line method. As far as the shakes, should they be installed right up against the trim or should i leave a small gap for expansion?

Thanks!


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

capecodder said:


> That is kind of what I didnt want, to have small holes where the strip is temporarily fastened. I will try the chalk line method. As far as the shakes, should they be installed right up against the trim or should i leave a small gap for expansion?
> 
> Thanks!


Keep the siding tight on the trim side except when your're going over the top of a window or other penetration then hold the siding 1/4" off the flashing.

Be sure to use white chalk only. The red will stain and the blue's a mess, the white will be gone the first time it gets wet if it hasn't just blown away first.


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## Duckweather (Mar 26, 2012)

I guess I still have some issues with staples. In New England we have had rules since 1691, (at least that's the oldest house I have removed and replaced wood shingles on), Cedar shingles expand and contract for many years so between every 2 nails they will crack at one or both. That includes every 2 nails that also penetrate from the row above. If one split is directly over another or a joint between two shingles below, the double coverage may be lost. Rules may change but the properties of the shingles hasn't. If holding power is an issue use ring nails. 5d box nails have been doing OK against the north Atlantic on Cape Cod for hundreds of years when installed 2 nails only.


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## Tom Struble (Dec 29, 2008)

usually the small hole from a tacked on strip will fill up with paint or stain,use a smooth shank 4d finish nail not a ring shank for this

for clear or no finish the chalk line method works best


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I think it should be noted that if you use the stick method be sure the nail is a gavi or stainless and "not" a bright, especially if left in overnight or it can stain the wood.

Cedar and Steel don't mix. Leave a steel tool on a Cedar deck overnight and you'll see what I mean. :huh:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

lol the old tool outline in rust. gotta love that


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Start on page 197, from 1880; http://books.google.com/books?id=ed4TAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=herringbone+bridging+strength&source=bl&ots=VMsVHH0iBx&sig=waqa1YimmeUA167wAcDNhJiWBek&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VvepT6SlDMbh0QHojY2sBQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=herringbone%20bridging%20strength&f=false

Gary


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