# Why does my newly installed toilet rock back and forth?



## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

We installed my toilet about a month ago. My fiance, who weighs almost 400 pounds, sat on the toilet to seal it so that should have sealed it. We bolted it down, and it sits flat on the floor. But when you sit on the bowl, it rocks forward. When you stand up, it rocks back. This was my first time ever attempting to install a toilet. What could be causing it to rock? 
I would like to solve this without breaking the wax ring's seal but somehow i get the feeling i wont be able to. Why does it rock?


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

If it's sitting flat on the floor it shouldn't rock- unless:

It isn't actually- maybe a side/end that needs a noncorrosive shim

Sub floor flexing

toilet outlet riding on the flange- meaning the flange is too high or toilet off center

Flange not anchored to the floor prior to setting toilet

toilet bolts too loose


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

the only one of those it might be is loose toilet bolts. The sub floor is solid, plywood. The flange was installed by the factory, and sits level with the floor. The same toilet was installed on the same flange a few months before reinstalling it. Here is a couple of pics, it seems to be sitting flat. 
yes i know its dirty, we have no running water to clean it yet


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

An old trailer or mobile home ? Each of the several that I've worked on needed some type of subfloor reinforcement or replacement, and/or better flange attachment.


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

its about thirty years old, and a mobile home, but the subfloor is solid. It was recently replaced, along with most of the drainline plumbing.


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

the only part of the drain that is still factory is the flange


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Maybe a contributing factor- you need stainless steel washers on top of the plastic washer (toilet bolts)

And I also agree with the subfloor-manufactured homes do not have good fllor systems


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

That plastic washer is just sitting there, its meant for the cover but the bolts are too long for the cover to fit. the stainless steel washer is there.

This home has a recently replaced plywood subfloor, only one problem with it and that is from a severe water leak left untreated for a year


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

your problem is the laminate floor, its a floating base. the way i have seen floors replaced on mobile homes 7/8 ply followed by wonder board, then tiled. then toilet gets a grout base.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Javiles said:


> your problem is the laminate floor, its a floating base.


I think you're on to something. I thought that seam was in vinyl flooring


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> I think you're on to something. I thought that seam was in vinyl flooring


You may be right looking closer it might be vinyl.


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## davidblackwood (Jun 13, 2013)

Toilets are designed to be able to take hundreds of thousands of vertical pounds. The toilet is operating as it should. The anchor bolts and the floor may not be able to withstand the weight being applied

It sounds like you need to have the floor reenforced. 

You can rebuild a section of the floor, reenforce the flange or remove it and install a metal one. 

Install grab bars to facilitate moving onto and off the toilet. 

Also removal of the current toilet and the installation of an ADA Compliant toiletry be needed. The said toilet will come furnished with back supports that drill into the stud to provide better structural support to the toilet.


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

I dealt with this with one of my tenets that was over 400 pounds as well. I lag bolted a brass flange to the floor Joice and he ended up breaking the toilet. This was like a 2 month headache and I thought I was done with it after replacing everything. The final solution was as mentioned with the ada compliance. I framed everything out of wood. I made a wooden cage around the tank because I realized he was falling into the toilet as he sat down. Grip bars and basically shielded the toilet from his slammed weight. Did you dry fit the toilet to make sure the flage is not making the toilet rock. Those flanges that fit inside the pipe can make a toilet rock


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

The floor is fine. It does not need reinforcement, it is new and perfectly sturdy. And we do not need grab bars, for God's sake i am 24 years old, i am perfectly capable of sitting properly on a toilet, as is my future spouse. The floor is vinyl, not laminate. This toilet was installed when i bought the house. We uninstalled it to demo the room, then put it back with a new wax ring. 
I asked my dad to take a look at it this weekend. He grabbed ahold the bowl and shook it side to side, and it did not rock or move at all. He said that if the flange was loose, it would have moved when he shook it. I showed him how it moved when you sit on the bowl, and he said that is due to the bolts not being tight enough, and that we needed to tighten them with a wrench, not by hand. Which makes sense. So sometime this week i will go out and use a wrench to tighten the bolts down. The problem has nothing to do with the floor, the floor is perfectly level and not rotten, and its properly supported. The problem is loose bolts, i guess. I will know for sure if it still moves after i tighten down the bolts.


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## davidblackwood (Jun 13, 2013)

I understand what your saying. 


I would recommend a ADA toilet furnished with grab bars and vertical support. If excess weight is applied to the flange you may have a problem down the road. 

There are several institutional style toilets that may suit your bathroom.

The bathroom floor may be compromised and using the same flange may be a bad idea. 

If the user of the toilet is of a heavier weight there should be some support to the toilet to prevent it from cracking

A structural cage should be fabricated to the studs of the residence.


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

TrailerParadise said:


> That plastic washer is just sitting there, its meant for the cover but the bolts are too long for the cover to fit. the stainless steel washer is there.
> 
> This home has a recently replaced plywood subfloor, only one problem with it and that is from a severe water leak left untreated for a year


I made the assumption that you know how to put the washers on and how to tighten the nuts down. 
You do realize the plastic washer goes under the SS washer? That is not what your picture shows. 
BTW- you cut the bolts off after the toilet is tight to the floor


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Remember, we sometimes have to take a stab in the dark at figuring out a problem. A brief explanation and a few pics are not always much to go on. You stated this was your first time reinstalling a toilet which left many of us guessing as to what went wrong. Now you must be extremely careful tightening the bolts.......you tighten too much and you crack the porcelain ruining your new toilet!


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## del schisler (Aug 22, 2010)

TrailerParadise said:


> The floor is fine. It does not need reinforcement, it is new and perfectly sturdy. And we do not need grab bars, for God's sake i am 24 years old, i am perfectly capable of sitting properly on a toilet, as is my future spouse. The floor is vinyl, not laminate. This toilet was installed when i bought the house. We uninstalled it to demo the room, then put it back with a new wax ring.
> I asked my dad to take a look at it this weekend. He grabbed ahold the bowl and shook it side to side, and it did not rock or move at all. He said that if the flange was loose, it would have moved when he shook it. I showed him how it moved when you sit on the bowl, and he said that is due to the bolts not being tight enough, and that we needed to tighten them with a wrench, not by hand. Which makes sense. So sometime this week i will go out and use a wrench to tighten the bolts down. The problem has nothing to do with the floor, the floor is perfectly level and not rotten, and its properly supported. The problem is loose bolts, i guess. I will know for sure if it still moves after i tighten down the bolts.


if you tighten the bolt's to tight you will break the ear's of the toilet bowl , the floor flange may be broken ? or cracked? that would give some play on the bowl ? good luck


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

The flange is not cracked or broken, i did make sure of that before we reinstalled the toilet. Thanks for the warning about tightening the bolts too tight. 
Eplumber, im not going to be putting the caps on, i dont have any way of modifying the bolts and the caps never stay put anyway. Theyre not necessary. 
to they guy who keeps telling me to buy a toilet with structural reinforcement, im not buying a new toilet. We need to get moved into this house in a few months, and this one was free. It works fine, just need to tighten it down. The toilet my future spouse has been using for years at his own house is almost identical to the one we have in our trailer, and it has worked just fine all these years. Thats with two 400lb men using it year round. I think we will be fine


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## davidblackwood (Jun 13, 2013)

I understand that you may be hesitant to purchase a Re-Enforced toilet. 

I have posted a link if you need one down the road

http://www.whitehallmfg.com/product.aspx?ProductId=559&title=Bariatric,+Siphon+Jet+Type,+On-Floor


I wish you the best of luck with securing the current toilet.


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

Its not hesitancy. Its flat out refusal. Its not necessary and i will have a normal toilet in my home. That thing looks like something you would see in a nursing home or hospital, not a normal house. Not to mention its a mobile home. The blocks and floor would go before five thousand pounds sat on that toilet


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## FixitDragon (Feb 9, 2011)

I have installed toilets on surfaces that were supposedly flat, and still found a low side on every single one of them. If after tightening the bolts you see a gap anywhere around the base, it may help to shim it. I like to use the thin wedge plastic cabinet shims. Just shove it under until it jams and snap it off. It will be covered when you run a bead of white caulk around the base.


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## paintdrying (Jul 13, 2012)

Toilets have cracked from people sitting on them. That porcelain is razor sharp when broken. If you nick your femoral artery you are dead in minutes. The safety of my tenants is something I take very seriously. We do not know you other than your posts, but I will tell you everyone on here is also very serious about other peoples safety. A loose or un stable toilet carries with it many potential problems. Our suggestions are only meant to help you. I realize the frustration of your problem. If I would have known of these stronger toilets it could have saved me a few sleepless nights. As a matter of fact, as soon as my arms heal from days on end of pounding in gutter spikes, I will be moving on to grab bars around toilets and showers.


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## davidblackwood (Jun 13, 2013)

I am not trying to insult you Trailer or comment on the size of the occupants. 

When someone is obese, there are certain plumbing fixtures that are not designed for use by certain people. 

The fact is is that it sounds like a reenforced toilet is what you need. 

I am a Plumber and am recommending what is best for you in your situation. I am providing the best service I can to you by recommending a toilet for your needs. 

If you think that it looks bad or to expensive is not my concern. 

Please understand that your health is the most important thing and I am sticking to my original suggestion for a reenforced cage style toilet. 


Please do the best service as you can for you fiancé and do not let her be harmed by a flawed toilet.


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## Javiles (Dec 12, 2011)

what ever happened were you able to secure it (keep it from rocking )


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## TrailerParadise (Jan 3, 2013)

I havent had time to get to it yet, been busy working on the master bedroom. 

David and Mj i know what you are saying, i just dont think its necessary. Difference of opinion. Thanks for your concern. If he is too heavy for a toilet like this, we will go later and get one that is stronger, but i seriously doubt the two of us need something like that. A rental i would understand but not just for us. Thanks.


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## davidblackwood (Jun 13, 2013)

Actually you do need it.


Whether you think you do or not is another story. 

I have been doing this for over 20 years, and it is my profession. 

You came to this forum looking for advice. That says you don't know what you need to do. 

The difference of opinion you are talking about is 
That I have over 20 years of experience in this subject. 

You have none. 

I don't believe that you are informed enough to even give one regarding this matter

I'm done with this topic, you know what you need. If you choose not to take the advice it's your problem


It's your life and your health.

Thanks


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