# 2x4 walls--should I go to 2x6



## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

I would keep 2x4 and spray foam if funds exist. What city you moving to?

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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Park Falls---I see you are in Wisconsin, where are you?


Thanks, I was thinking about the spray foam as well. It's a small house--not much square footage facing the outside.


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## spitz1234 (Jan 1, 2019)

Waterford. You are way north if me in snowmobiling county. Inlaws have a place east of you in Lakewood. Whatever you do remember you need to bring fresh air in. Someone on here will know much more than me about insulating and 2x6 construction. Good luck

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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

Typically when you take it down to the studs you are required to build it back up meeting all new codes. Zone 6 could require R-21 walls. I say could as each municipality can set their own requirements and select what ever code guidance they desire. That guidance (IECC) is updated every 3 years with some still using 2009 while others have upgraded to 2012, 2015, 0r 2018. Difficult to keep up with the changes. For you, you need to talk to your local building department to see which version they are following.

I would assume they will also want to see all electric in renovated upgraded to new code levels.

You mentioned new siding and that opens up the option of adding a couple of inches of rigid foam on the outside. That allows the 2x4's and electrical boxes to remain as is along with window baseboard trim. Window and door trim might change with new units.

Big project.

Bud

I think you are actually in Zone 7


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## akjose (Jan 1, 2013)

If you want added insulation and are already tearing off the exterior, I would do as Bud said above and put rigid foam on the outside. That will get you more r-value than <2” of batt insulation. 

If your insulation really needs replacing, you go with rock wool replacement in 2x4 space and rigid on the outside. 

The rigid would definitely be less work than furring and moving boxes. May have to frame a few windows out or come up with something to bring the frames out.


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## NotYerUncleBob2 (Dec 29, 2017)

Foam on the outside is definitely an option, but if you're doing the labor yourself you might want to consider the Bonfiglioli approach. It's basically an inch thick strip of foam on each stud with a piece of 1x3 strapping over that to fur out each stud. This breaks the thermal transfer of the stud and gives you the 2x6 sized cavity to insulate. 
I guess it comes down to which side of the wall you'll have the most access and want to work on. 
Here's more on the Bonfig wall: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2014/11/26/breaking-the-thermal-bridge


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Exterior insulation if you are going with 2x4s.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

There are box extenders for outlets than might be hard to move. 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrical-Box-Extender-BE1-2/202708650


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Actually, I plan on moving electrical around anyway so not as worried about boxes. They come off pretty easy.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

It would be a shame to open all the walls up and not add to the 2x4 thickness for insulation. I don't think it matters inside or out, it's more about which cost less and what you prefer to do. I like this idea of 1" foam spacer and 1x2 on the inside.


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

ok, so I appreciate all of the responses and thinking this thru a little more now. So, let's say that I go with the outside wall and rigid foam. I have fascia, gutters, and the soffit on the house that is non maintenance so I am keeping that. If I put the rigid foam on, that would cover up an inch (or however thick it is) of the soffit--then later on if I need to remove the soffit, wouldn't that make it that much more difficult to remove?


Plus, if I am going with different windows, those are usually for 2x6 walls and that would mean that I would be better off going with building the walls out from the inside right? 


Plus, when you put rigid foam on the outside, how do you nail siding to that? You have to go thru the rigid foam into the stud when attaching? 


Just wondering if I am thinking this thru correctly? 


Appreciate all the advice. This honestly isn't that much work--sheetrock goes up fast once things are ready for that.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If your fascia is right against the house, that might be more trouble that it's worth. 


Wood sash windows??


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Well, the soffit is right against the house and would be because that is how it is done right? Maybe I don't have the terms correct---fascia is the part that is under the gutters correct? Soffit is the part that is under the eave correct? 


In terms of the windows, have not purchased them yet. Do you have any advice on windows? Vinyl? Wood?


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Here is a picture of the house as it currently stands. I believe it has Masonite siding and want to change it anyway.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

jsmith1107 said:


> Well, the soffit is right against the house and would be because that is how it is done right? Maybe I don't have the terms correct---fascia is the part that is under the gutters correct? Soffit is the part that is under the eave correct?
> 
> 
> In terms of the windows, have not purchased them yet. Do you have any advice on windows? Vinyl? Wood?


Fascia is behind the gutter and up the rake of the roof. It's the rake if tight against the house that is trouble. 
Depending what you have for soffit, you talked about more insulation for the attic you will want good soffit ventilation. Usually the soffit goes in before the siding.
Mostly we do vinyl windows with a nailing fin and the depth of the wall makes no difference. Google *rainscreening windows* when you are ready for windows.


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

ok, so I was right on my terms then. Good to know. 


May I ask why you go with vinyl windows? I have heard a lot of people say that wood is much better--not sure why, just what I have heard.


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Ok, I google rainscreening windows---basically it is how to put windows into a house with the 1-2" insulation attached to the outside of the house. Makes sense. 


I am still trying to figure out what my best avenue is here---
1. put the rigid foam insulation on the outside of the house? But with that I will have to deal with the soffit already being in place and this will make the soffit harder to replace when the day comes. 
2. shim out the inside and put thicker insulation on the inside?
3. spray foam insulation in the house and don't do anything outside other than house wrap and don't do anything to the inside of the house in terms of shimming the walls out? I don't know enough about spray foam though---I know it eliminates little cracks here and there so less leaks--but how is the R value of spray foam on 2x4 walls versus regular insulation on 2x6 walls?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

What ever you do with siding you would deal with soffit at the same time. You wouldn't to do scaffolding twice.


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

Yep, I understand that. I plan on leaving the soffit, fascia, and gutters as they are basically new. So, with that said, what would you do in terms of either option 2 or 3 I listed above? Shim out the inside and put new insulation in for 2x6 wall or spray foam the 2x4 wall?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If the soffits are new and not vented you could just cut vents I, are they plywood or? 
I think you will find spray foam a little on the expensive side, I would expand to the inside and just order up new door jams to fit whatever you do. 
I have just made an appointment with a real door shop and drop the door off in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon with a new jam.


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## jsmith1107 (Sep 1, 2015)

ok, thanks for your advice. I guess let me ask one more thing---am I really losing that much heat in a 2x4 versus a 2x6 wall and will it make that much of a difference? Maybe I just change out the insulation alone--get rid of the 1981 insulation and put new in with a vapor barrier and I am good? 


I shouldn't have to do anything with the doors--I am replacing everything anyway.


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## Porsche986S (Dec 10, 2017)

Here's a suggestion: on the outside go with 1/2 " or 3/4 " foam board and Tyvek . Even with 1/2 " you are gaining some R value and it will make your siding install much easier and not intrude much at all on your existing soffit . On the inside for your climate the R19 insulation of a 2x6 wall is better than R13 of a 2x4 wall but " may not " be as pronounced with the previously mentioned exterior application . Roxul is highly regarded by many you will have to do some price shopping in your area to compare vs. fiberglass .

For the ceiling/attic I would insulate as high as you can , don't you get crazy cold weather there in the winter ? I would want R44 - R50 with good attic ventilation . With your plan of this being your retirement home now is the time to get it as " right " as you can afford . Good luck


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## schreibdave (Jun 12, 2016)

Before you go with any amount of exterior insulation you should check out buildingscience.com and maybe this paper specifically 

http://https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-controlling-cold-weather-condensation-using-insulation

It basically says that you would need 7.5" of exterior insulation in order to prevent condensation on the inside of your sheathing.

What ever you do, I would do something in that climate to improve the efficiency and comfort of a home that you're going to retire in - especially if you are going to be replacing windows, siding and sheetrock. Good luck.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I got a "bad link" reply on that link but I don't think any exterior rigid insulation requirements reach 7.5" except above a roof deck.

Bud


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## schreibdave (Jun 12, 2016)

I'll try it again. If it doesnt work the OP should go to Buildingscience.com and click around. It's a great resource.

https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-controlling-cold-weather-condensation-using-insulation


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