# switching landscape lights to led



## GKelly (Apr 27, 2016)

I just installed a box-store landscape light kit (12 4-watt lights, 66 watt transformer) using only 8 of the 12 lights. All is good. Switched the incandescent lights to 1-watt led. All is not good. Would not turn on. If I replaced just one led with an incandescent the system would work. Didn't seem to matter which light was incandescent as long as one was. The box store people had no explanation for what was happening. Hoping someone here can give me some insight to what is going on and how to overcome it.

Thanks in advance.


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## FrodoOne (Mar 4, 2016)

GKelly said:


> I just installed a box-store landscape light kit (12 4-watt lights, 66 watt transformer) using only 8 of the 12 lights. All is good. Switched the incandescent lights to 1-watt led. All is not good. Would not turn on. If I replaced just one led with an incandescent the system would work. Didn't seem to matter which light was incandescent as long as one was. The box store people had no explanation for what was happening. Hoping someone here can give me some insight to what is going on and how to overcome it.


You have posted this under "Green Home Improvements" but it is an "Electrical" problem.

You stated "would not turn on" - when Incandescent lamps were replaced by LEDs.
This implies that it not just turned on by a switch but by some other control device.

I could go into explanations as to why such control devices (designed for Incandescent "loads") may not work (correctly) when loaded only by LED devices - and you will find such discussions on the "Electrical" thread.
(For a start, see http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/strange-issue-motion-detector-fixture-leds-387858/)

However, you have determined that "If I replaced just one led with an incandescent the system would work. Didn't seem to matter which light was incandescent as long as one was. "

I suggest that you just leave it at that. The Incandescent lamp is providing the "load" required by the controlling device to enable it to turn "On", at which point it will "power" all parallel devices on the circuit - both Incandescent and LED.

Your only other choices would be either to 
replace the controlling device by one designed to control LEDs or 
interpose a "relay". (A relay is [mainly] a "resistive" load, so it "looks" to the controlling device like an Incandescent load.)

Both of these "solutions" are likely to cost more (both in Dollars and inconvenience) than leaving but one Incandescent lamp as a partial "load".


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## physdl (Feb 15, 2015)

My guess is that the transformer has a minimum load requirement. Originally, the system had 12 lights at 4W each, creating 48W of total load (close but not too close to the max output). Now you're trying to run it with 12W. Perhaps the minimum load required is around 15W and hence you're getting this current situation.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

Your guess is not correct, although it is somewhat similar.
If the OP pulled all the bulbs and only inserted the 4w incandescent in one fixture, it would light up.

Frodo's answer is correct.


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## FrodoOne (Mar 4, 2016)

GKelly said:


> I just installed a box-store landscape light kit (12 4-watt lights, 66 watt transformer) using only 8 of the 12 lights. All is good. Switched the incandescent lights to 1-watt led. All is not good. Would not turn on.


After re-reading this thread after all this time (due to the recent posts) I note that the OP refers to a "66 watt transformer" which will not "drive" a LED load.

Hence, it seems that this is NOT an (iron core) "transformer" but IS an "Electronic" transformer which, in reality, is a "Switch Mode Power Supply".


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## viveksuthar (Jan 12, 2017)

Nice Explanation...FrodoOne


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## Flannel Guy DIY (Mar 12, 2017)

I love LED lights I just wish they did not cost so much


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

The cost is way down compared to 5-7 years ago. You can now get a multi pack for less than you used to pay for a single bulb.

In most bulb shapes, they really cost less than cfl or incandescent when you look at lifetime ownership cost. (Cost of one led vs X number of the other bulbs)

The led beats the incandescent on energy cost by a huge margin, and often has a slight margin over CFL. 

There are other benefits such as better dimming range, instant on, etc as compared to CFL. 

I just changed some hallway lights over to LEDs, from CFLs. Even though they are the same "equivelent wattage", the hallway is brighter with the LEDs. (Measured with a light meter, not an opinion.)


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## LawnGuyLandSparky (Nov 18, 2007)

Oso954 said:


> The cost is way down compared to 5-7 years ago. You can now get a multi pack for less than you used to pay for a single bulb.
> 
> In most bulb shapes, they really cost less than cfl or incandescent when you look at lifetime ownership cost. (Cost of one led vs X number of the other bulbs)
> 
> ...


Just piggybacking off your post-

Keep in mind the claims as to an LED's longevity, however accurate as applied to the LED itself, does not take into account that LEDs require electronic components to drive them. And those drivers may not have anywhere near the longevity as the LEDs they're driving. 

LEDs designed to directly replace incandescents have a built in driver, because LEDs require very low voltage DC current to operate. And these drivers get more complicated when adding dimming capabilities. Considering China's propensity (and American importers) to "value engineer" everything to it's lowest price point, be wary of "incredibly inexpensive" LEDs.


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