# granite transformations



## El Toro

*Granite Transformations??*

Im new to this forum so i just wanted to take a 2nd to say hello. just bought a condo back in april. im a DIY'er so im looking forward to a lot of helpful advice from this site!

Has anyone had any experience with Granite Transformations? the product they sell is 95% granite mixed w/ a polymer that is formed into 1/4 inch thick slabs. these are then installed directly over top of your existing counter tops. no demolition. has anyone used this company before or know someone who has? I tried searching online for consumer reviews but was unable to find anything.

thanks in advance for any help you may give!


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## MattCoops

You may have a better experience and save more money by using granite tile over densshield screwed over your formica.


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## El Toro

they quoted us at $3300 for about 30 sq/ft of counter top, an under mount granite sink and a new moen faucet, installed. does that sound over priced?


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## send_it_all

If you lived close to me, I could probably give you nearly the same deal with actual granite.


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## AtlanticWBConst.

El Toro said:


> Im new to this forum so i just wanted to take a 2nd to say hello. just bought a condo back in april. im a DIY'er so im looking forward to a lot of helpful advice from this site!
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Granite Transformations? the product they sell is 95% granite mixed w/ a polymer that is formed into 1/4 inch thick slabs. these are then installed directly over top of your existing counter tops. no demolition. has anyone used this company before or know someone who has? I tried searching online for consumer reviews but was unable to find anything.
> 
> thanks in advance for any help you may give!


I do not have any experience with that company that you specifically asked abut. However, I have seen some counter products produced in a simliar fashion and have been very impressed with the whole look...very nice.
Sounds like you have not physically seen their product?

Only thing I could suggest is: If they are not in the area, *call* and ask for a sample to be sent to you. Ask for some testimonials or other references.....


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## DCsuperstore

*Over-priced estimate*

I think the estimate is overpriced. You could replace your existing countertops with concrete countertops for a fraction of the price. You would probably spend $400-$500 if you custom fabricated concrete countertops. Concrete is just as durable as granite, when polished it can look like granite and best of all, it's a hot new trend in kitchen remodeling.


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## El Toro

They came out to the house and gave a little presentation and brought some samples, the wife really fell in love w/ one of the colors they have.

when they were at the house they offered some consumer reviews, but i was looking for something other then propaganda.

i just really dont want to get hosed here. i really dont know much about counter top materials and cost.


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## Ron6519

This is the time to learn. Go to any place that sells granite countertops with a diagram of your set up. I'm sure you can find the same granite style that was shown to you. They should be able to quote you a ball park price right there.
The quote was very high unless you picked out some exotic stone, like Baja Blue.
Ron


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## Andrea Rose

*Did you buy Granite Transformations?*



El Toro said:


> They came out to the house and gave a little presentation and brought some samples, the wife really fell in love w/ one of the colors they have.
> 
> when they were at the house they offered some consumer reviews, but i was looking for something other then propaganda.
> 
> i just really dont want to get hosed here. i really dont know much about counter top materials and cost.


 
I also am impressed with this product. My quote is for $5900 for about 40 square feet of counter and windowsills covered as well as backsplash all the way up to cabinets. I've spoken with several customers who all love it and invited me to see their kitchens. I saw the product in their showroom. If you bought it, are you happy.

thanks,
Andrea


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## dcd22

I just had my granit templated yesturday for install in 2 week's. I have 45 sq ft and the cost is $2400 installed. I live in NJ. I provided sink ($350) they will undermount. I also provided Price Pfister faucet ($250)


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## RippySkippy

In this small set of pictures, those with a counter top are from Granite Transformations. I have a close up of the color we chose so you can see what it "really" looks like.

Many said here that it's _"just like"_ granite...and with all due respect it isn't. I have granite in the bathrooms, and it behaves differently. Liquids don't leave any marks on the surface, temporary or permanent. The element of having virtually no maintenance was highly appealing to us. It's easy to clean, and it has the look we like.

We had a very positive experience with our install, and wouldn't go any other way. The guys from the company were well prepared, professional, and a pleasure to work with.

Rip


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## Andrea Rose

*Price comparison*

I'm getting close to signing the order. I had a quote for just the granite slabs which did not include installation, sink, plumber or electrician and it was $5600. Granite Transformations was $5900 and included everything. I'm getting one more quote from Costco countertops, but no one else does the OVER the countertop installation. That's the part I like the best. I'll write back if I do it.


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## mcgon4

*Salesman just left*

I just had a salesman in from GT and his quote was over $6000 and then came down to $5100 if I bought today. I have no experience with countertops other than the WilsonArt that is in my kitchen for 11 years. 
I thought it was high, and need to do some homework on prices.


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## Andrea Rose

*I still haven't decided*

I'm still looking at granite in addition to granite transformations. I visited them at the Seattle Home Show last week and am still very interested.
Andrea


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## fivecitydjs

While I cant speak for national prices on granite, I think for any of the previous posters who live in Jersey (esp Mt Laurel) you can get actual slab granite counters for $50-60 sq ft installed. There are several places in South Philly that do this, and I know they work in Jersey too. They typically install your undermount sink too in that cost, if you provide the sink

So I am not sure why you would spend the same amount per square foot for "Granite Transformations" or whatever it is called when you could get real granite for the same price. 

Just my opinion


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## kptbls

So did any of you end up using Granite Transformations. I am considering them for my kitchen. 
I really like that they can put it all in 1 day with no mess. I got quotes from Costco and couple other contractors and the cost difference is around 1-1.5K only.


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## Andrea Rose

*Yes I used Granite Transformations*

In fact, they just finished today and the plumber is here now putting in the faucets. The kitchen was finished about 4 weeks ago and looks gorgeous and I love the granite-silicon sink. It always looks beautiful. If I can take some pictures, I'll try to find a way to send them in. I used the Seattle office and they were great. There were a couple of color issues and they replaced the counter before it was even installed and on the same day no less. I'm VERY happy. If you are in Seattle, you are welcome to see my kitchen.
Andrea


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## kptbls

Thats good to hear. I live in Seattle too .
So all the installation finished in one day ?
Did tehy also take care things like putting the cooking range, sink etc in or did you have to hire somebody else for that ?

Thanks


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## Andrea Rose

It didn't involve my range which is on an island, but they did have a plumber they work with and the sink was included. I was also able to hire the plumber to swap out all my electircal outlets to black. Evidently he is really an electrician who also does plumbing. His name is Larry and you could ask him about your stove...I would bet he could do it. Where do you live in Seattle? Yes they did it all in one day. I did my kitchen, fireplace surround and 2 bathrooms. He did all my sinks and electricity and if VERY reasonable. Good luck, Andrea


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## End Grain

I have seen their work firsthand here in Arizona and I have since recommended them to customers who were looking to sell their homes and who had wellworn thick tiled countertops in their kitchens. With a minimum of fuss and a minimum of disruption, the entire look of the kitchens changed dramatically. Nice edges, tight seams, very good craftsmanship and workmanship. All without the demolition and construction aspect that removing those old tiled countertops would have involved. Those who have used Granite Transformations upon my recommendation were delighted, including one customer who had the work done in her newly purchased home and I was impressed with the results of those jobs. In spite of the price tag, I feel it MAY be one good way to achieve a new look and feel without several weeks of homelife disruption, a dusty mess and the lack of a working kitchen for the duration. It's all relevant to one's expectations vis-a-vis working budget.


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## Beverly76

*Granite Transformations*

I had granite countertops installed from Grantie Transformations about a year ago and I absolutely love them!! They were great and my kitchen is beautiful, we couldn't possibly be more satisfied. For my kitchen and two bathrooms and an undermount sink it was $5600. I did quite a bit of shopping around before purchasing them because my sister has the "real" granite in her house and has had numerous problems. For one, some olive oil got spilled on her counter and it left a bad stain that she hasn't been able to get out. Her experiences really opened my eyes to how porous granite actually is, so I began pricing stones that were less porous like silestone and they were quite a bit more than my quote from Granite Transformations. I was happy to get such a high quality product with a lifetime warranty, no mess, no demolition and no sealing and waxing. Also, I would definitely say there is a great reason to pay nearly the same as the "real" thing for a non-porous stone that is made from natural granite. You get the beautiful look without the maintenance and mess! My sister is probably about to re-do her kitchen with Granite Transformations as well because she is tired of the maintenace and problems.

My husband and I would recommend them to anyone and I believe my sister would too, even versus the real thing..

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you choose!!


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## so-elitecrete

*conc & granite aren't,,,*

competitors in the sense that homeowners quickly separate themselves,,, having made granite c-tops 30 yrs ago, the only thing that's chang'd is more finishing equipment, MANY more quarries & stone, & LOTS of new experts in the trade,,, i can make conc c-tops as that's part of our work,,, i like soapstone, tho,,, go figger.

btw, i don't know anyone selling conc c-tops for less than $75 sf,,, yes, you can bld 'em yourselves,,, we regularly see those who do come into forums asking ?'s AFTER they tried


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## georgieboy

*We had*

Granite Trans redo our kitchen about 2 years ago. Though I love my new kitchen, I would be really careful about who does the installtion. That was my only complaint. The people who ran the "franchise" here in Bakersfield, CA were the worst people to work with. They ignored the problems we had with the installtion so we basically gave up trying to get them to respond. You might want to read my post on Angie's List about them. Love the product, hate the installers.


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## Andrea Rose

*I would agree*

The installation is the most important part. I really lucked out in that my local Seattle shop was extremely honest. There were actually 2 mistakes made, one in the cutting and 2 in the color matching although the same color, the dye lot was off. In both instances, they totally redid the template in the same day! Everything looks beautiful and I love it.


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## Cheryl

*Granite Transformations*

I Love love love my new Granite Transformation and I love love love the company that did it. They were wonderful to work with and they worked clean and they were polite and I can not say enough good about this company.

In this day and age with lack of customer service, they top the charts and they deliver a nice product that you do not have to worry about like real granite. No sealing and care just clean and use a polish. 

There is minimal demolition because we had wood bibs so those needed to be removed and I had ordered rounded edges and I have a bar that comes down to a counter top and they had never done rounded edges there but they tried and it came out beautiful. They are very willing to make you happy. I had a lot of counter top and a bar area and a wet bar and another brand new counter top we were adding and they did it all with back splashes that went to the cabinets and it was $10,000. I had other quotes and they were in the ball park and I chose them because of the attitude and there lack of making my life difficult while they worked in my kitchen and they were done in two days, yes I said 2 days. They came one day to template the house and then they came back in had the work done in 2 days. Another reason to go with them. When they say they are going to be there, they are. Find a contractor that will do that.

My best advice. Go with Granite Transformations

This advertisement was not paid by Granite Transformations but by little ole me in Sunny California.

Cheryl Davis-Holman
A happy customer


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## uiplanner

Happy to have found this Granite Transformations thread: we are looking into replacing the countertops in our kitchen and have settled on using an engineered / quartz product of some type (no granite). Granite Transformations TrendStone seems to be popular in my the neighborhood with a seemingly reputable local installer / dealer. It looks nice, essentially like the full 3cm thick quartz products like Zodiaq / Silestone / Viatera, etc. Two things that are bothering me about the product:

1) When they fabricate the overlay, there is a small seam at the 90 degree angle at the edge of the countertop where the two pieces meet at a right angle. My neighbors have black, and you can't see it, but in the earth-tones we're considering, it seems to show up. I'm not worried about the seal itself, but I noticed it right away in the showroom and the samples I saw. Everyone else seems to downplay it.

2) The Granite Transformation overlay is essentially 20% as thick as the typical quartz surface. I know the original, 13-year old countertops are sitting there reinforcing it, but it still seems less robust.

*Price*: Essentially the same between the G.T. and quartz. The Granite Transformations price with install and undermount sink is about $90 / sq. ft. I found a DuPont Zodiaq color I like and Lowes will do the install with undermount sink for about $95 / sq. ft. 

Compared to a full quartz replacement, what are the benefits of the Granite Transformations? Is it just the fact that you don't have to tear up your kitchen to get it? Maybe I'm a little more tolerant of a brief period of kitchen chaos than others. If I go with the quartz product, I'm planning to do the demo myself on the countertops, so there's a little extra work there for me (but Lowes would do the demo for only $8 sq. ft.)

Thanks for any advice.


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## Andrea Rose

Sounds like you found the product you want! If you can do the tear out, that's great. I had Granite Transformations do everything; plumbing, new sinks, electricity, back splash all the way up to the cabinets, etc. i just had my house painted and the painter stood on the countertops with no problems afterward. I also dropped a heavy glass jar on it and nothing happened. I'm happy with this product as I'm sure you will be with Quartz. Enjoy it!


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## uiplanner

Andrea Rose said:


> Sounds like you found the product you want! If you can do the tear out, that's great. I had Granite Transformations do everything; plumbing, new sinks, electricity, back splash all the way up to the cabinets, etc. i just had my house painted and the painter stood on the countertops with no problems afterward. I also dropped a heavy glass jar on it and nothing happened. I'm happy with this product as I'm sure you will be with Quartz. Enjoy it!


Andrea: I'm not necessarily settled on the quartz, but looking for more info. I am happy to hear that the Granite Transformation is durable. Two questions: 1) What type of edge did you do? 2) Do you notice the seam on the outside edge? If not, what color did you use?


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## Andrea Rose

We have a squared off edge, very simple. We used black. The seam can be seen but it doesn't shout out at you. It comes in 10 foot lengths and one of my counters is 12 feet long so there is a seam. How long are your counters and will the seams show less at one end rather then the other?


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## Mikenk

I found this thread when i googled granite transformations - good discussion.

I am in Dallas area and had them recommended. We went to the showroom today, liked what we saw, they are coming out to do a complete estimate Friday. They quoted a general price at $43/sqft installed. It seems most of the prices in this thread are considerably higher even when you consider many are including sinks and faucets. they recommended we buy those ourselves; i am anxious to see their quote.

So far I am impressed with the people and the product as shown.

Mike


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## MattyGit

*We used (are using) them...*

I am in Miami and they came to the house. Gave us a quote ($45/sq. ft). We got the counters installed last Wed. All look and feel great. Shines up nice, very stable, great looking.

The backspash that we ordered came in wrong, so we are waiting for the new ones to arrive. We went with a new product that they offer - a marble tile with colored inserts. We are the first to use this new product, so (it figured) they came in wrong... ah well. Other than that and the fact that they are not great in communication, we like GT. 

Remember, that we are in Miami and the quality of workmanship and products and communication are all severely lacking.

I'll post pictures when done.


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## Mikenk

Thanks for the input. They came out and gave us a quote; it was $46/sqft. After the cost of bevels, electrical, plumbing, the total was abut $68/sqft.

the comparable granite or quartz options were about $57/sqft expanding to $83/sqft with the add-ons and tear out. We will probably go with them as my wife likes the look better than the quartz or granite. 

Mike


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## MattyGit

Ok, well... finally, today 6/3/08, they finished my kitchen. Here are some quick pictures. I still need to switch outlet covers and some other minor things... but you get the idea.


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## MOREPLAY

*Granite Transformations*

I Am Looking At This Option Myself. I Am Most Interested In The "no Demolition" Aspect. Anyone Out There Who Has Actually Had Experience With This Product? I Would Appreciate Any Feedback. I Am In The Totowa, Nj Are And Would Be Using The Vendor There. Thanks.


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## MattyGit

*See above...*

I used GT and the before and after pictures are above... after all was said and done, I am VERY satisfied with this product!

Any questions, just ask...

Matt


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## RippySkippy

I used it in new construction so it demolation wasn't an issue. I talked to the installers and from what he said, the only thing they have to do is if the counter top has a drip edge, they use a belt sander to remove the hump on the edge....again no first hand knowledge...just conversational notes.

As for the product, we are continually impressed with the product, we've had and used it for over a year and love it. When the house was appraised, I specifically told them about the counter top NOT being slab granite, and it didn't make any difference to them I got the "credit" for a stone counter.


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## kshankle

are granite transformations holding up? seems that it would break easy?


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## Andrea Rose

*Yes I used Granite Transformations*



MOREPLAY said:


> I Am Looking At This Option Myself. I Am Most Interested In The "no Demolition" Aspect. Anyone Out There Who Has Actually Had Experience With This Product? I Would Appreciate Any Feedback. I Am In The Totowa, Nj Are And Would Be Using The Vendor There. Thanks.


 

I'm very happy with this product. I used it in my kitchen, two bathrooms and around my fireplace. It's awesome.
Andrea


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## RippySkippy

kshankle said:


> are granite transformations holding up? seems that it would break easy?


Once the sheet goods are epoxied to the substrate, it's one unit. It will only be as good as the substrate so if there's water damage, or separation of the laminate from the particle board, it may not be very strong. I would hope the installers are trained to spot these potential issues.

For the product itself, it does have an embedded fiberglass mat that holds the sheet goods together. I have a sample at home and if you bend it much it will crack and break. But it's not meant for installation without a substrate either.


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## Mikenk

I had gotten a quote from GT which was quite a bit higher than the originally quoted figure at the showroom - lots of adders, but still less than granite quote from Lowes. I then got a quote from an independent dealer on real granite which was cheaper than GT by about 20%. While I believe that GT is a good product, for us, the real granite was nicer and cheaper. 
IMHO,
Mike


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## Andrea Rose

*Are you including the tear-out required for Granite?*

When we compared the two, the pricing was similar, but there was no mess or tear-out required for GT and it was done in one day.


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## Mikenk

Yes, the tear out was all included in my pricing; that is what made the Lowes granite cost so expensive. It was all included with the independent and I got to pick the actual granite slabs. 

The tear out and installation of the granite was all done in one day. We have another contractor that is doing the backsplash in a tile, that is being done now a few days later than the granite. If we had gone with GT, the backsplash would have been also the GT made to look like a tile; so the whole project would have been done in one day. One thing we did have to do with real granite is to remove everything from the lower cabinets before installation.

Here's a summary of our experience:

- Pricing: similar, but if you shop, granite will be cheaper
- Durability: similar (I think, but have no long term data on GT to validate)
- Easy to care for: GT wins here as there is some periodic sealing on granite
- Ease of install: GT wins here (if you have a good installer), but granite install was not bad as done in single day.
- Appearance: this is personal preference, but having looked at all the GT options, and looking at what we did with real granite and the tile, for us, the granite wins. There is just something about the look of real granite, Mother Nature did really well.


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## psufan

I'm new to this site, but it's already been very helpful. Just had Gran. Tr. out to give an estimate. I wish I had seen this site before the estimate, because now I have some questions which I didn't think of like the placement of seams, and this franchise's installers, which seems to be the most impt. element in the process. I live in No. NJ and the franchise is located in Totowa NJ. Does anyone have any experience with that one?
I also need to check on the possibility of Andrea's situation; that is, if the pieces do not match in color and how they will rectify that. 

One thing the salesman said that did seem to make sense in conjunction with G.T's prices vs. comparisons to real granite was that you must consider the original source of the granite. For instance, granite from Italy vs. some other countries he named which he said were are not as high quality. Can't say for sure whether that is true, but I'm definitely enticed by the ease of the maintenance and installation of G.T. so I think if all checks out, that's the way I'll go, and it seems like people have very positive results.

Will admit though, that as someone earlier said, Mother Nature does get it right. I saw some slabs (very expensive) at a place and they were to die for...simply gorgeous. But truthfully, for my kitchen and my house, I think that G.T. will be just right. Will let you know if I decide to do it and how it turns out.


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## uiplanner

Mikenk said:


> Yes, the tear out was all included in my pricing; that is what made the Lowes granite cost so expensive.


 
I posted here earlier, considered G.T. but ended up going with a Cambria quartz product from a local place (ended up cheaper than Home Depot, with reputable installer). I can tell you from experience, doing the tear-out is super easy. I think it took me about a 90 minutes to take out 33 sq ft of laminite tops, including disconnecting and popping out my old sink (I've never done any of this, BTW.) Don't let it intimidate you, it's just demo (it's hard to screw up demo!  ).


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## Andrea Rose

psufan said:


> I'm new to this site, but it's already been very helpful. Just had Gran. Tr. out to give an estimate. I wish I had seen this site before the estimate, because now I have some questions which I didn't think of like the placement of seams, and this franchise's installers, which seems to be the most impt. element in the process. I live in No. NJ and the franchise is located in Totowa NJ. Does anyone have any experience with that one?
> I also need to check on the possibility of Andrea's situation; that is, if the pieces do not match in color and how they will rectify that.
> 
> One thing the salesman said that did seem to make sense in conjunction with G.T's prices vs. comparisons to real granite was that you must consider the original source of the granite. For instance, granite from Italy vs. some other countries he named which he said were are not as high quality. Can't say for sure whether that is true, but I'm definitely enticed by the ease of the maintenance and installation of G.T. so I think if all checks out, that's the way I'll go, and it seems like people have very positive results.
> 
> Will admit though, that as someone earlier said, Mother Nature does get it right. I saw some slabs (very expensive) at a place and they were to die for...simply gorgeous. But truthfully, for my kitchen and my house, I think that G.T. will be just right. Will let you know if I decide to do it and how it turns out.


My husband and I visited some customers' homes and saw their installations. We also visited the showroom and saw what they had to offer. in addition, i called several other customers to get their opinions of their project results and all were happy. I should add, that due to an accidental dropping of a bottle of olive oil right on the edge of the countertop, we had a dime-sized chip on the edge. The GT owner came to my house to patch it with a resin substance and it looks fine. The finish is a bit duller, but you really can't see the repair if it's not pointed out to you. In addition, he would not take any money for it. He was awesome!!!


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## Mikenk

From all of my research, GT is a fine product if installed correctly. However, it is not cheaper than granite or quartz. I do not believe that anyone should decide on the basis that GT does not require tear out of the old. We went with granite in a large kitchen and four baths. The tear out and install of all were done in one day. We had a second day for a plumber to install new fixtures throughout - would have had that either way. We then had a third day for the people to do the back splash in tile. 

The bottom line, we did spend one extra day, but we got exactly the look we wanted. My advice is to get what your really want from an appearance perspective; you will be living with this for a long time. That extra day spent at the front will long be forgotten. Don't compromise - if the GT selection is just right, go for it; otherwise keep looking.

If you are remodeling for resale, my feel is that real granite would make more sense.


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## phoggie

I have never seen GT in person, but from what I saw on a recent DIY kitchen remodel, it looks no better than a WilsonArt laminate the has the same pattern of granite and a fraction of the cost. I can not believe that GT is almost as expensive as real granite.....why have "fake" if you can have the real thing? I'd like to be able to see this with my own eyes, but have no clue as to where they even handle it in midwest Kansas.


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## ccarlisle

Well, engineeered stone is indeed 95% granite or quartz and 5% epoxy or polyester; but is that by volume or by weight?:wink:

Actually, it is granite chips, sometimes the chips that fall to the floor after real granite has been cut. My question is: if that's so why is it priced like granite, perhaps 5%-10% cheaper by somewhere around $50 per sq ft? Certainly doesn't cost that. 

Sure it is atttractive, I know...but if I am willing to fork out that kinda scratch, my money would go for the real thing.

Silestone and caesarstone are trade names, I believe. Scratches way too easily for that kind of price, take a key to it and do a test. Easy to fix though, so don't worry.:whistling2:


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## balford

*Granite Transformations*

:furious:This company has been extremely disappointing to deal with. What was supposed to take a few days has taken 7 months and the nightmare is still not over. The counter literally *fell apart* and, after many calls, we had to go through the installers arriving without the pieces they needed again, leaving two thirds of the job unfinished for several more days. The first installers didn't show up when they promised, drilled faucet holes incorrectly, and, according to this second installer, didn't reinforce the apron around the counter. Pieces were cut incorrrectly, and the bottom edges were left open and unfinished. One day they just started falling off. After we called them, it has taken almost a month and I'm still looking at pieces of the apron which they left behind on the floor. They did not call as promised to confirm their appointment, and after calling three numbers, I got the installer on his cell phone, who acted surprised that no one called me to tell me he was coming TODAY in one hour. Because we have a large kitchen counter, the installation is in pieces which don't match although they are passable, and the thin sheets of composite are much more cheesy than we expected. *BEWARE OF THIS COMPANY. * I live in Miami. Maybe things are better in other locations.


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## spanishfly

Hi everyone, I am new at this and I just wanted to let everyone know that as I read thought these listing. My experience with The Granite Transformations in Miami Florida was GREAT. I have never had the pleasure of dealing with a professional establishment as I have with this company. 

My salesman was very informative, help me pick out the right color and got the ball rolling. Within a couple of week they were at my door ready to install. Boy were they super nice, clean and efficient. They covered everything from the floors to the cabinets. All was great. They installed my new countertop in just one day. 

It really hard to find a good HONEST company in Miami and to deal with all the difficult people, But this company has the “Right Stuff”

Thank YOU


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## Mikenk

*The importance of installation*

the last two postings show the importance of the installation process. Both GT and real granite or quartz requires expertise in building the proper templates. A misstep will be a disaster. I would guess there is horror stories on any of these products.

Personally, I believe that GT is a good product but overpriced. The price quoted me at my house was $69/sqft. IMHO, that is just too much versus the installed price of natural granite. However, if the look of GT is exactly what you want, then that is the best product for you.


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## karenc2tx

*To Mikenk re: Dallas granite/tile contacts?*

Mikenk,
You mentioned you were pleased with your contacts for granite and tile in the Dallas area? I'm looking at options to update my kitchen as I prepare my house for sale and would love to know your contacts, if you're willing to share them. I'm hesitant to sink too much money into updates so finding a great deal is always appreciated.


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## Mikenk

Karen,

I tried to send a PM but didn't have enough postings to do so. I used Builders Marble and Granite in Farmersville (www.buildersmarble.net) and Dungan's flooring / tile in McKinney for the tile. I am not sure whether it was a great deal, just better than Lowes or GT quote. We have been quite pleased with the results, both in workmanship, speed, and final appearance. 

We also did all our baths in granite; in addition to having slabs to pick from, they also have a large remnant pile for even better deals.

Good luck.
Mike


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## mcintyrelin

*Granite Transf*

*Hey, this is my first post. I have been reading all the conversation about GT. I first saw GT on HGTV. They were getting a house ready to sell. I got so excited because I loved the look and I thought erroneously that the countertops were cheaper than traditional granite. I have wanted granite for the longest, but for me the price is prohibitive. The price for the countertops was like $900 on the show. They were doing the 2,000 makeover. Oh, well, maybe someday *


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## karenc2tx

Thanks Mike. Your info is much appreciated!
~Karen


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## mcintyrelin

*Granite Transformations*

*I have to agree with one of the posts I read. I think the stuff is over priced. If you could save enough money to make it worth your while to use GT OK. But, Why pay for a substitute for the real thing. :no:*


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## Mikenk

I realize you believe in and want to defend your product; however, making it sound like a super product that is far superior to real granite is a little farfetched. I think GT is a good product if installed correctly and should be as durable as the real thing; however, it is not less expensive, is not as attractive (IMHO), and will not give the same resale value.


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## mcintyrelin

*Has anyone heard about the radon gas factor in granite?? Some people are having it taken out of their homes.*


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## Mikenk

RippySkippy said:


> What's your source of information for this?


Just logic and input from a real estate broker. In our area, people prefer granite in kitchens; it is a selling feature. i can not perceive that a not well known product of crushed granite in an epoxy base will be a selling point.


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## mcintyrelin

*Transformations*



Mikenk said:


> Just logic and input from a real estate broker. In our area, people prefer granite in kitchens; it is a selling feature. i can not perceive that a not well known product of crushed granite in an epoxy base will be a selling point.


 
*It was on CBS's The Early Show. I saw and read the article from my AOL home page.*

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/25/earlyshow/health/main4292754.shtml


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## Big Mack

Help. I bought a Marble countertop uncut, I want to cut it so I can mount a top mount bar sink. What is the best way to cut or do I need to call a professional? Also How do I or can I polish the edges of the countertop?


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## Mikenk

RippySkippy said:


> Dang, I was hoping you had some documented source that I had not seen.
> 
> I've had my house appraised 2 times in the past year for a different reasons that I will not go into. Each appraiser (different companies) asked about the counter top since neither had seen it before. In both instances, the house appraisal amount was *INCREASED* for the *STONE* counter top. While we were talking aobut the product, I mentioned the lack of maintenance, increased resistance to germs, and lack of staining, each appraiser thought it sounded superior to "real" stone. So indeed it is a selling point.


Hmmm, let me get this straight. Two appraisers told you that a GT countertop that few people have ever heard of made from crushed granite and an epoxy adds more value to your house than natural granite that is the "in" product for countertops. yea, right! Give me a break.

Again, I believe that GT makes a good product. yes, there is no tear out, yes, there is not the need for periodic sealing (a once a year wipe down). BUT, it is expensive, is not as hard (will scratch easier), and does not really resemble the look of real granite. If that is the look you want, then go for it.


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## mcintyrelin

Mikenk said:


> Hmmm, let me get this straight. Two appraisers told you that a GT countertop that few people have ever heard of made from crushed granite and an epoxy adds more value to your house than natural granite that is the "in" product for countertops. yea, right! Give me a break.
> 
> Again, I believe that GT makes a good product. yes, there is no tear out, yes, there is not the need for periodic sealing (a once a year wipe down). BUT, it is expensive, is not as hard (will scratch easier), and does not really resemble the look of real granite. If that is the look you want, then go for it.


*I agree with you. If this stuff were cheaper I would go for it, but I am just a regular house wife homeowner who would rather have the real thing if I am going to pay a high price for it.*


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## greenflash

I have a few questions. I think that GT will be ideal for my 1911 Craftsman style duplex. I've been in the showroom in Seattle and we loved the look for both the rental and for our home.

A few questions if you don't mind.

GT_installerGuy: 
1. Are you in Seattle? I hope, I hope. ;-)
2. Can you compare an constrast the 3 product lines I see on the main web site: Trend Stone, Trend Glass, and Trend Mosaic? 
3. Someone mentioned exposed areas underneath. (But maybe that was in Miami.) In the showrook, I noticed that it it just bare wood. Is anything done to "finish" that look?


Andrea_Rose: 
1. Which of the above products did you use or is it a mix in the different areas? 
2. How large of an area did you use for the fireplace covering and what material did it cover up? 
3. Did you get beveled edges on any of the countertops? 

To people who want "the real thing" - you are welcome to the additional germs you will get with the porous material, the higher maintenance, and the radon gas which causes lung cancer in non-smokers. I am thankful that I do not have "the real thing" in my home or in my rental. 

Thanks.


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## Andrea Rose

*Trend Stone*

I have the trend stone. In my kitchen, it went over formica countertops and ceramic tile on the backsplash. I covered over everything with Nero Stella and it looks just like the picture on the Granite Transformations webpage. My backsplash goes all the way to the upper cabinets. I also got the charcoal sink which is incredible and always looks great. http://www.granitetransformations.com/seattle/ We got squared off edges on all countertops. We already had an island in the kitchen with a granite top so we used black for the GT countertops to go with what we already had. The original granite is beveled, but I like the sharp edges much better...it's a cleaner more modern look.

Around my fireplace we covered 9" square tiles which had been chipping. We went around three sides and also placed it on the bottom (over the same type tiles) as a hearth. It looks gorgeous.

Lastly I did two bathrooms and they both look great. The technician in Seattle was Scott and he was fabulous. He refused to use anything less than perfect and exchanged the sheet twice so that he got a perfect match...and did it the same day. Good luck. Andrea


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## kper

*Think twice about Granite Transformations*

We had them out three years ago to install countertops--beautiful. However, a corner cracked off a few weeks ago ( this is never supposed to happen), and when I called about the warranty to have it repaired, I have had nothing but problems. It will cost me $200 to have the repairs done, when in fact it was their product that was faulty. I took a day off work for the installation date and a man showed up to make a template, not do the work. They already had my measurements from the first installation. Now I will have to take another day off to have the section installed. 
I was going to use them for my bathroom but now I will not even consider them.


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## greenflash

Andrea_Rose, thanks so much for the reply. We say the charcoal sink in the showroom and thought it looked nice, but were unsure about how it would hold up. 

Kper, that sounds like a really bad experience.  Thank you for the warning. In my rental house there is an L counter that has an odd-shaped rounded end. When they came to measure (a year or more ago), they said they could not fit the round end, but could do an end with 45-degree angle parts to cover the rounded end. Was the end that broke off not over an existing countertop, as it might be in my situation? 

It seems that there is a lot of variability in the quality of the franchise and particularly of the installations. It might be helpful if people say where they live. 

Best wishes to all ~~ greenflash in Seattle.


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## Andrea Rose

*damage*

I also had some damage when my husband dropped a large bottle of olive oil on the edge. GT came right out and repaired it. the sheen is slightly different but absolutely no one has spotted it until i point it out. they would not accept any money even though i offered! this is the Seattle office.


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## MattyGit

RippySkippy said:


> Dang, I was hoping you had some documented source that I had not seen.
> 
> I've had my house appraised 2 times in the past year for a different reasons that I will not go into. Each appraiser (different companies) asked about the counter top since neither had seen it before. In both instances, the house appraisal amount was *INCREASED* for the *STONE* counter top. While we were talking aobut the product, I mentioned the lack of maintenance, increased resistance to germs, and lack of staining, each appraiser thought it sounded superior to "real" stone. So indeed it is a selling point.
> 
> While perceived logic and an un-informed broker passing out un- substantiated information helps to form opinions, I choose to look at the facts from those in the field that can make or break a home sale by determining it's true market value.



No one has made mention of GT's Warranty. For the original buyer it's lifetime. And it is transferred to the next homeowner for 10 years if you sell (with no transfer cost).


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## AggieMom

*Granite Transformation Questions*

Thank you all for your info--it's quite informative. I have a few questions as we are considering this company for several things:

1. Has anybody used them for resurfacing their cabinets? And, if so, what has been your experience?

2. Has anybody used them for shower walls? We have a stall shower, which is tiled on 3 sides and the ceiling and the floor. I have a worry about putting something solid (we're considering the single surface granite, not the tile look-a-like) over a shower that is used at least twice a day. Is there any danger of sealing moisture behind the solid surface? I would think that if the shower had been used earlier in the day of installation it would still be damp when they apply the solid surface, thereby creating a huge mold problem behind the solid wall. What about installing a shower door? Currently the door is installed on the tile step down. Can a door be installed over this type of product?

3. Our bathroom countertops are currently the 30-year old engineered marble that has the sinks molded into it. It's all one-piece, sink and countertop. How would something like that be handled? Would they have to be pulled completely out and a solid surface installed before GT installation?

4. I want the undermount sink, but there appears to be a problem with it fitting correctly under the GT counter. It appears to sit lower and have quite a bit of calk between the top of the sink and the bottom on the countertop. Is that true? Or does it just look that way?

5. Is there anybody out there that is unhappy with the GT product?

Thank you all for all the great questions and answers. You're provided a wealth of info for me.


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## MsBnny

*Strictly for educational purposes!*

I would like to make a few comments in regards to a few negative responses I have read so far. The situation is that people comment about something they know nothing about and they take cheap shots at the expense of businesses. These business make a living supporting families by selling products that only take a handful of uneducated people one second or one sentence to ruin. This isn't just in regards to this specific topic but in researching information on chat forums in general. 

As far as Granite Trasnformations, here is what I know(this isn't to start an arguement, but to educate those looking for a REAL answer and not some other company trying to persuade customers in their direction as opposed to allowing the customer to make their own decision): 

1) It is 95% REAL granite! 5% Polymer resin. It is REAL GRANITE!! It's permanently sealed. Granite slabs need to be sealed annually. Granite Transformations counters have absolutely NO upkeep other than regular cleaning as you would any countertop made with any material. It is constructed of the fabricaterd slabs prior to installation and they are brought in and installed in one day with no mess, no demolition, and no inconvenience to the lives of their customers.

2) It comes with a warranty! Slab granite is compressed NATURALLY! You cannot put a warranty on something that was made naturally. Nature is unpredictable and the highest grade granite slab may have little or no chance of damage but there is that percent they leave open because of the fact that it is NATURAL. That percentage is why slab granite companies do not offer warrantied products. Granite Transformations backs their materials with a warranty because they trust that they use a great product. NOTE: The warranty does cover countertops based on regular kitchen use. THIS PRODUCT IS NOT INDESTRUCTABLE!!!! You cannot swing a sledgehammer full force and expect it not to break. Just as well, you cannot spill Acetone nail polish remover and forget to clean it up and expect your countertops to be replaced! Again, they are NOT indestructable and this is not a "Super Product"! These counters will stand up to regular kitchen use. Whatever you got from your sales consultant is what you take from it. The company does provide care instructions to each customer on the day of installation. If you follow them, then your countertops will last for years and years and years!

3) Money, money money! There ARE cheaper grades of granite. Yes, there are slabs of granite that go for 20-something dollars a square foot. What they aren't telling you is that the grade of granite is horrible and the chances of your countertop being damaged are high. This isn't to say you SHOULD consider GT for your project. What I am saying is, in general, if you are already investing so much money in a product like granite, the difference between grades are only a few dollars per square foot. If you are investing a minimum of $1,500 for the project, why wouldn't you want to invest a couple more dollars a square foot to ensure a better quality and less risk of damage? Its not like you're buying toilet paper from the grocery store and want to save that extra 75 cents. Its a _serious_ investment. Considering the fact that Kitchens and Baths are the highest selling point of any house, why would you rather save money than invest a few more dollars and get it right the first time? Whos to say that when you go to sell, the buyer doesn't recognize the cheap grade and that couple thousand dollar investment you cut corners on will end up losing money for you instead of helping the cause? 

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is something customers should research themselves and see what is best for them. GT is a great company and offers a GREAT product. It may not be the best but it is still a great product. For anyone who could put down a company with no means to back it up should be ashamed. As far as prospective project starters, do yourself a favor, do the research yourself. Or better yet, go directly to BBB.org and search for companies registered through the Better Business Bureau. That is the best way to reassure yourself that you are getting the best quality and best service for the product you're researching.


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## AggieMom

*Thanks MsBnny*

I agree 100% with what you say. I saw in the chats many people who were very happy and had GT--and a few who downed it saying "looks cheap" from the pictures on the internet. I went to the store WAS impressed. Now, I just have the above questions and hopefully somebody has had the work done that I'm considering doing OR is an installer for GT and can answer my questions.


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## joeconroy

*Staining may be a problem*

I bought a new ivory colored "granite sink" by Blanco and it stains if you look at it. Its not counter top but it is sthe same granite and polymer type of mix you described for your counter top. I realize it sounds like it should be more stain resistant that pure granite, but it is definitely not. I have a light granite counter tops and have had many for years and none of the stain like the sink. Sure, your tops may not be the same as Blanco's, but you may want to check out their stain resistance.


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## AggieMom

*Thanks Joe*

Gosh thanks for that as I was considering one of those sinks too. Of course they are advertised as "stain resistant--even can dye your hair in the sink" but now I know differently. IF I opt for one of their sinks, it'll definitely be a dark one.


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## SeattleHomeAddict

*My Granite Adventure*

I can totally relate to MsBnny's comments about GT vs. The Slab. First you have to determine what is best in your situation. How likely is it that you will stay in your house and use product? Is selling the house in the near future? What sort of value do the homes around you have?

My adventure began when I wanted to replace my 18 year old laminate. My home is the already over-improved for the area. The street is made up of 60's split level's with a 1910 thrown in. My house was built in 1990 and was already more valuable than the rest, so I had to take that into conideration. Between that and the fact that we plan to sell when the housing crisis is over, I could not justify slab granite.

The cabinets are white and not the highest quality. If I was going to stay in the house, the whole kitchen needs to be gutted and redesigned. Not going to that for someone else. GT was far less mess and cost than the granite I priced. Also, the granite companies I went to warned me that I would have to pay for new underlayment because of the necessity for granite to lay ABSOLUTLEY flat. There was also I wanted to keep a perfectly good tile backsplash that the 2" granite would partially cover. Then add on the trim work underneath to finish out the transition from counter to cabinet, the cost was making me dizzy!

Neighbors and relatives had good experiences with GT. I found the process to be almost painless. Yes, 2 days - one for the mearuring, one for the installation. They also do not reattach your plumbing, so plan on schduling a plumber if you are not handy in that area.

The result is that I have an updated look and a wonderful surface on which to work. Very clean easy to care for.

If you are planning on getting the most return on your home, unfortunately the reality is that home buyers make up their minds about something like the look of a kitchen in an instant when they tour your house. They are not thinking about mainentance or warantees. Are they going to percive GT as cheap? If they know anything about GT or Corian or anything that is not granite or quartz they might. Bu if your cabinets are not bad enough to warrant a replacement, you run the risk of going through the cost and hassle of installing granite and having that make your cabinets look shabby. So you must consider your future with the kitchen before deciding. And I stongly advise not to rule out GT just due to a perception.


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## AggieMom

*Granite Transformations*

Thanks Seattle Home Addict. It's always good to hear from somebody who had it done and is pleased. My cabinets are not in good shape and I was thinking of having them refaced by GT. Guess my next step is to get a price from GT to transform my kitchen cabinets and countertops, get the same quote from a company to replace the cabinets and install silestone, then I guess I can make the best "informed" decision possible. Thanks to everybody for their help. 

If anybody has had GT reface their cabinets, I'd appreciate knowing how that turned out too.:thumbsup:


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## AggieMom

*Cabinet Refacing*

Gosh I can't imagine what that would look like either (UGLY!). 

No, by cabinet refacing I mean, new doors, new drawers, and then a veneer that they heat-set over the rest of the exposed wood. Supposedly, it's cheaper than replacing the cabinets. Our local GT does do that. However, I have a concern with the "refacing", because the cabinets will still be old and ugly on the inside (shelves, etc). Plus I wonder how long the veneer will stick. Part of my cabinets have the entire back exposed (over a countertop). I have 31 yr old cabinets that are 1/2" thick plywood that were built when the house was built. They were not prefab. They are all solid wood, but still after 30+ years they are outdated and ugly. I've thought about painting them, but I've also seen some that were painted professionally and they still aren't "pretty". You can see just about ever mark in them. I was just wondering if anybody had their cabinets "refaced" by GT and how they've held up.

Thanks everybody.


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## AggieMom

I understand about moving it, but my original question was "has anybody used GT for cabinet refacing?" Since this is a GT thread, I thought that was appropriate. I was just interested in the quality of work they do on the refacing. Thanks for all the great help. I really appreciate it.


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## Johnny Larue

*Response To Aggie Mom Former owner*

I recently sold my Granite Transformations Franchise (Health Reasons) so I would be happy to answer any questions people have. You will hear the real inside deal from someone who knows the products good qualities, and bad qualities. I have no reason to sugar coat things with GT. You will hear the good and the bad from me!!!!:yes:

Aggies Mom-

Replies to your questions.

1.
Cabinet refacing is new to GT. If your location has an experienced finish carpenter, like I had, you will be fine. I would also get 2 other refacing quotes, and check out Angies's List etc. for names.

2.
Showers are a great application for GT. Almost better than counters!!
We told people to let the shower dry for 48 hours with no problems. Mold can't grow because no air, or water can get behind it. The epoxy that is used is waterproof, (they even make underwater saltwater coral reefs for famous aquariums out of the epoxy) and will fill the air gap between the tile and the granite. Your entire existing shower wall will be coated with a thick layer of peanut butter consistency epoxy. So no way will water or mold get back there. When it is installed, just make sure they coat the surface with epoxy throughly as they are trained to do. Also you can install a shower door over this product.

3.
Cultured marble sinks "could" be cut out. However, this would be messy and dusty. We always just removed it and put down a new substrate.

4.
Undermount sinks will look different than slab. They are water tight if done right. However, the look is a bit different for some folks.

5.
Of course every job does not go perfectly. Ask for the best installer, and look at his customer review letters. Blank review forms are left behind on every job so you should see many letters.

Hope this helps. Anyone with any questions let me know. I really like helping people out with there Home Improvement Plans:thumbsup:

P.S. The warranty is ok. Better than nothing which is what you usually get with Granite. Just read it over (twice) and go from there. We always went out for free on service calls. We even caulked a kitchen every year for 4 years!! Customer was a bit "challenging", our caulk job was fine she just wanted it freshened up!!


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## AndreM

*Great Information*

I'm new to this and the information that I have read so far is great. My wife and I just bought our home last year in Maryland and we love the kitchen but it has the builder grade laminate counter tops which are ok, but we would really like granite to go with our new stainless steel appliances. Like most of you we saw GT on HGTV. We have a dealer in the area and have set up a time for him to come out and show us the product, we have not as of yet been to a showroom. But we will definitely do that since many of you have suggested that.
Since there is some much information here, I have a ton a questions written down that will help me interview the GT rep when he comes out.

Thank you, will keep everyone posted.:thumbup:


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## AndreM

*GT Showroom visit*

Today my wife and I went to the showroom and if all you see are the samples on the website. I can say first hand they do the product no justice. Some of the same colors my wife did not like looking on the website, when she saw it in the showroom she loved them. 
This weekend GT will be showcasing at the Dulles expo center for the "Home Show" so if you live in the DC area it would be a great place to go and check out there full showcase.

We have set up the free in home estimate visit, will keep everyone posted on what they quote per sq ft.


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## kbsumrall

*Granite Transformations*

We just had granite transformations install countertops and sink in our kitchen. We originally had a laminite that was pretty and only 4 years old but we wanted to get something for long term and we wanted to decide before we put up our backsplash. I originally only had 2 seam behind my stove with granite transformation I had to have 3 incremental seams and I was very worried and made sure I voiced this and asked for the best installers. The installation and the product is great, the seams were better than I ever hoped. I like the Blonco granite sink but make sure that the plumber installs your faucet correctly... he left and later I found the faucet did not cover the hole and the sink is so deep you need a special tool to get to it. The installer (not the plumber) did come back to fix it,,, but made it worse. (we went and bought the tool, cheaper than another day off).. Supply your own drain and strainer... the one I recvd was probably $2 and you cannot go to the local store and buy a better one or use my old one, because they don't fit. It is either in or out. Does not allow water to drain without taking it out of the sink. I think GT is more expensive than granite (but I liked the product) and I felt they could afford to put in better quailty drain. I don't think I should have to replace but even if I did I don't want to mess up the sink and be blamed. Who knew that something so common is a big deal..just ask or supply your own. My company in Jacksonville, FL.


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## TryItMyself

*Variance in cost with GT?*

To Johnny Larue or others who can explain discrepancy in quotes. I've read many of the posts and am surprised at the variance of costs. It seems some rcv'd a quote for around $46 sq ft, while others were much higher. We rcv'd a quote for $80 per sq ft -- no special cuts, no special corners, no sink, etc. Just straight countertops. Is there a reason that the cost varies so widely?


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## AggieMom

*Johnny Larue Thank You*

:thumbsup:Gosh, I've been out of town a few days and what a great surprise to see these wonderful answers. You've been a really big help to me. I haven't had them out for an estimate yet, but a friend of mine had them come out and estimate her bathroom shower--$7,000--seemed really expensive to me. We both have large showers that are bathtub sized (and ceiling, and 3 walls solid tile). But, when you consider there would be no tile grout, no waxing to keep it from watermarking, etc, I guess it does make sense. Another friend had them out and they wanted $13,000 to reface her cabinets. Replacing them through Lowe's using Shenandoah cabinets (Maple) is only $3,000 and that's removing everything and starting with new cabinets. I just got back from Lowes today and saw their cabinets--and quartz countertops (LG Viatera)--total to remove my cabinets, install premium cabinets and the counter top is $7,000 (roughly). That sounds almost too good to pass up. A whole new kitchen vs. a shower "lining" seems like a no-brainer.

In fairness, I will have GT come out and estimate for me. I will follow all of your recommendations--read everything, get review letters for the installer, etc. I'm not in a hurry, so there is plenty of time for me to wait for the best person. 

Again, THANK YOU!!!!


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## AndreM

*Major disappointment*

Today my wife and I had our in home estimate done. Our total square footage came out to almost 40 sqft. Before the GT salesman who also happens to own the business gave us the final figures. I asked him is there a standard price per square foot, he stated no and that the price per square foot differs from one kitchen to the next. Immediately what came to mind is all of the concerns that my fellow bloggers have had about the variance in price per square foot.
So finally he completes his paperwork and lays out the final numbers. This quote included the mosiac backsplash, undermount sink,faucet and plumbing. For the euro edge it came to $5499 or $137.50 per sqft and for the bevel edge it came to $6174 or $154.35 per sqft.:huh:

My wife and I felt that,that price per sqft was really high and we also felt that since there is no standardized pricing per sqft it leaves you open to being taken advantage of because you don't know if your getting a fair deal or not. Just based on the pricing differences in this blog alone I felt like I was really taken for a ride. Even if we took out the sink,faucet and plumbing the price is still not that much of a difference.
Granted there product is beautiful but at that cost, we immediately thought hey we could get 100% granite and a decente grade of granite for less. Granted yes there are different grades of granite but I feel if we shop around we could find a good deal. We have even decided to go to granite distributors in our area and see if we can get a deal on large remnants they have left over and get a price on getting that installed. That was also something we saw on HGTV.

To all of you looking at GT I hope that you get a better offer than we did, I still feel that it is a great product but not for the price I was quoted.


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## AggieMom

*Ouch*

Gosh Andre M that's seems like a huge price. I can get my cabinets replaced and the quartz countertop in for nearly that price. I too have approximately 40 sq ft of countertop. I'll keep everybody posted on what I find out--but at $13,000 to reface the cabinets, plus an additional $5,000 (probably) for the tops, I'd be inclined to get all new--even with the mess. I found out about a brother of a friend that does home building, but recently retired--he's willing to oversee my project (for a price, but a fair one) and let me know contractors, etc that will do my job. I think that's the best thing for me, but like I said, I'll have GT come out and give me a price and I'll let everybody know.


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## AndreM

*Granite quote*

After the shocking price we were quoted from GT the other day my wife and I went to a Granite showroom today. We gave them our measurements to see what kind of pricing we would be looking at. We looked at 2 products:
1. Silestone - which is made from Quartz mixed with a polymer
2. Granite
Both products were considered level B, The supplier is running a special on the granite. 
They are offering:
Free sink - 6 to choose from
Your choice of edge for free - 11 to choose from 
Your choice of faucet - 6 to choose from

Plus the granite comes with a lifetime stain warranty (IntelliGuard)

www.milanostones.com

looking at my measurements they stated I have 40.18 sqft. of counter space.
:huh:The price quote - This does not include demo and removal - which my wife and I will probably to ourselves.

SileStone @ $70 sqft level b grade = $2813 :thumbsup:

Granite @ $68 sqft level b grade = $2733 :thumbup:

My wife and I thought that this is a much better deal for us and the price is budget friendly. We know that granite from time to time needs to be sealed, we found out that the IntelliGuard treatment prevents liquids from penetrating the stone and it has a lifetime guarantee.

So for us the Granite is the way we are going to go.

We are also looking at other Granite suppliers in the area, we would like to get at least 3 quotes before making a final decision.


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## AggieMom

*Sounds good to me*

Gosh AndreM that sounds really good. I guess I should start looking at granite, particularly since you can now get the treated variety. My family and I are not the kind of people that keep things immaculate. Matter of fact, I leave the dishwashing liquid sitting on the back of the sink, instead of putting it in the cabinet, all the time. I was worried about the stains, particularly since I live in TX and have HARD water. But, with the stain resistance that granite now has, I guess I should look there. I'll keep everybody posted on how my "project" comes along. Plus my hairdresser and I are both working on the same projects, so we compare notes all the time. She's getting granite, from an individual granite person, not a company, for a really good deal--but I know it's not sealed. She'll have to keep it sealed. Her price is very good, but I'm still leaning towards the quartz countertops--particularly since I've read so many good things about them. I recently found out about a brother of an acquaintance who used to build houses that is willing, for a price, to assist me. I think that's the best way to go since I've heard so much about cabinets and installation nightmares from Home Depot and Lowes. At any rate, I'll keep you all posted. Thank you for all your info. This is the best thing I found!!!!:thumbsup:


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## SARAH0419

*I Need Advice*

Our house burnt down in December, 2007 and we are completely rebuilding. I need help picking out the color of our walls, tile, etc. I have already picked a brazillian cherry stain for our cabinets in the Kitchen and a galaxy black granite countertop. Please help me with your ideas and advice!! 
God Bless!!


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## TryItMyself

*Thanks Andre & AM*

Thanks for posting Andre! We felt the quote we got was a bit high too, but have not checked out other products yet. With your posting, I feel more excited to go look and price. I asked the "GT guy" if there was any room for negotiation considering the information I had after looking on-line and he said "no, that is just the price". I took that to mean..."take it or leave it". I wondered... if they treat their potential customers questionable how would they treat a customer who already had a financial investment.:huh:


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## AndreM

Your Welcome TryItMyself, This blog has been extremely helpful for my wife and I. We are in our very first home which we purchased almost 2 yrs ago and we don't have any plans on moving anytime soon. So for us the upgrades that we wanted to do we wanted them to be of high quality without breaking the bank. The more that I read and research was to improve your home I'm finding that you can get high quality without is being so expensive, it justs takes some effort on your part and you have to be patient. After the GT guy gave us the estimate I was just like you he was like this is the price take it or leave it, then he said I know were not the cheapest product on the market but where the best!
I Think that the product is very good, but I think the price is a ripoff considering what I was able to find with 100% Granite that comes with a lifetime warranty to resist stains. Also one of the things that would have bothered me with GT is that my kitchen Island and raised countertop have a very large overhang and the product would not have covered that up so you could very easily see where the GT product stopped and the wood underneath began. Again my wife and I are not looking to sell our home anytime soon but we both thought for resale purposes someone could easily say "oh this is not full granite". 
As homeowners we can be our worse critics, so I felt that if I was going to pay that much for new countertops I may as well go with the real deal.


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## AndreM

*Your Welcome TryItMyself*

This blog has been extremely helpful for my wife and I. We are in our very first home which we purchased almost 2 yrs ago and we don't have any plans on moving anytime soon. So for us the upgrades that we wanted to do we wanted them to be of high quality without breaking the bank. The more that I read and research was to improve your home I'm finding that you can get high quality without is being so expensive, it justs takes some effort on your part and you have to be patient. After the GT guy gave us the estimate I was just like you he was like this is the price take it or leave it, then he said I know were not the cheapest product on the market but where the best! :furious:
I Think that the product is very good, but I think the price is a ripoff considering what I was able to find with 100% Granite that comes with a lifetime warranty to resist stains. Also one of the things that would have bothered me with GT is that my kitchen Island and raised countertop have a very large overhang and the product would not have covered that up so you could very easily see where the GT product stopped and the wood underneath began. Again my wife and I are not looking to sell our home anytime soon but we both thought for resale purposes someone could easily say "oh this is not full granite". 
As homeowners we can be our worse critics, so I felt that if I was going to pay that much for new countertops I may as well go with the real deal.


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## AndreM

*Very interesting to say the least*

I live in the DC metro area and as always just about every night my wife and I were watching HGTV show "Designed to Sell" with designer Tania, her show focuses on the DC metro area. Now if your familiar with the show you know that there budget is only $2000.

So the designer Tania was working on updating the kitchen and she told the homeowner a inexpensive way to update the kitchen counter tops is with this product call GT and then in comes *Brad Wintermute* who is the owner of GT in Northern Virginia to explain the product to the homeowner. "By the way he was the one that came to my house and gave my wife and I the unusually high quote for roughly 40 sqft of counter space."

So my wife and I are looking at the homeowners counter space and we both said they have just as much counter space as we do - plus not to mention the designer built a breakfast bar off the kitchen that she also had covered with GT.

So at the end of the show when they were tallying up what was spend, GT was able to cover all of there countertops and newly built breakfast bar for $934 :furious:

So I thought to myself maybe Brad gave them a special price because he was on national TV or maybe that was a the real price since you have designer going around saying "oh GT is an inexpensive way to get granite" 

Regardless either way there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the drastic sliding scale of the price your quoted for GT. It would really help if we had an owner or installer of GT explain why is that or at least give some ideas as to why the wide variance in pricing structure.


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## TryItMyself

*Love to watch HGTV*

Hey AndreM! 

Interesting post. I agree! It would be nice if a GT franchise owner would speak up about the pricing structure. Could be they have to charge the "regular" people more just to make up for the "tv" specials :wink:.


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## Johnny Larue

*try it yourself and others ?'s on pricing*

As a *former owner*, I can tell you that first of all Brad Witermute did give a good price to HGTV! No need to explain why:wink:

The product's initial perception does have a flaw. Because it goes on top, people think it should be less expensive than granite. This was true when the company started years ago, granite was $89 a sq. ft. and up, but granite prices came down. The product's "Hook" is it goes on top, no demo, and has a lifetime warranty. If this is not important to you, then I would check out other products. Some western states have mostly tile counters, so the demolition mess, & costs of removal are higher than removing formica. G.T. works really well in that situation.

As a franchise owner we could charge whatever we wanted. It's illegal for any franchise company to tell an owner what to charge. Of course, the product does have a sq ft. price range, and some markets, like Orlando, Miami, etc. are owned by G.T. Corporate. So the price is low to pump up sales, and they have lower costs. Also some markets have lower labor costs, rent, advertising costs, etc. so price will vary. And some owners price aggressively if they want the job, or need work. 

I always told people prices ranged from $55-$80 a sq. ft. depending on options chosen etc. The $55 would be a basic shower install. We were trained not to quote sq. ft. price, because we needed to "explain" the product thoroughly. I ignored this advice, because I had a # of years experience in the trades, and I just gave a sq. ft. range to my customers. Most owners came from other industries, and never gave out price. That just creates an environment of mistrust. Any question let me know.


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## jbbcpa

*GT is way over priced*

Live in Raleigh NC. Just had GT in for a cabinet refacing estimate and 78sq. feet of countertops. The countertops quote was $7250 and the cabinet refacing quote was $10,175.

The pricing model is a complete mystery still after getting a quote.

I am putting in cat.2 granite for $44 a sq. ft plus $5,900 for new maple cabinets (installed).

I will not be using GT ever


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## Johnny Larue

*Wow!!*

That seems priced really high! I would call them up and ask why. It is engineered stone, so it's better than granite. But at that price you could get granite and then replace it in 10-15 years. It's priced right for certain applications. Showers, going over tile, people with issues regarding dust from demo of tile, unique kitchen configurations, etc. Good luck!


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## kehrh

*Granite Transformations*

I LOVE Granite Transformations!!!!

I had an irregular 90 degree angle at the back corner of my countertops. On top of that I had this wierd little edge of counter that went about 4" into the window well. It was going to cost me a fortune to have either granite, Corian or just new counters made. Granite Transofrmations came in and BINGO it was all taken care of. 

On BIG plus for me was if I had either granite or Corian put in the contractor had to come out and remove my sink etc when he measured. Then I would be sink and counterless for 5 days while they made the new countertops. With Granite Transformations my new coutertops werein and finished before I got home from work. All in one day.

One other big consideration should be this. Granite is porous and stains. It is also a little soft. You cannot cut on it, place REALLYhot pans on it and you can scratch it by dragging a pan across it. None of this applies to Granite Transformations. You can cut on it, place hot pans on it and it does not stain. It comes with a ten year warranty.

Honestly I cannot give it enough praises. I have just sold my home and am moving to another state where Granite Transformations does not have a store. I am going to contact them and see what we can do.


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## jbbcpa

*Granite Transformations*

kehrh -- Glad you like your GT but I will not buy anything when their pricing model is a mystery. I am buying real granite for $44 a sq. foot

I noticed you omitted the price and sq. feet installed.

Afterall you bought an engineered stone which should be cheaper to make and install. Please explain why it is so pricey.:no:


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## Johnny Larue

*kehrh Mistake?*

Hi kehrh

Some companies do take 5 days for corian leaving you without a kitchen. I know some that use a laser template taken off photos so you get no down time and it's cheaper. 

Also in my market they put granite in in a day, or less, not 5 days. Either your G.T salesmen told you that line, (like we were taught) or maybe your area is different. As a former owner i can tell you if no one is in your area, they won't fabricate a job for you. You never know. Best of luck!!:thumbup:


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## SusanInSoCal

*Granite Transformations vs. Home Depot Countertops*

I started out looking at Granite Transformations because I thought it would be less expensive than a granite slab. I saw an ad for GT that offered a "free sink" (more on that later). The sales rep was from the Ventura, CA store and he was very nice. I got my quote & was happy with the sink offer. However, I wanted to do some price comparisons. So, I went to Home Depot and saw that I could get a granite slab (as opposed to GT's granite composite) for about the same price. I was very surprised. I like the idea of not having to do a demolition (if you go w/GT), but I realized that being inconvenienced for a few days to get a granite slab was really no big deal when you then get to enjoy the slab for years to come. Depending on what granite you choose from HD (who contracts Stonemark for the job), there is more depth to the look of a slab than of composite, and I like that depth.

My husband looked at the numbers GT advertised vs. the quote GT gave us, and called the GT rep, saying that the quote for our job was more per sq. ft. than what GT advertised. The rep agreed, and my husband asked, "I guess the "free sink" isn't really free, is it?" The rep said, "No, I guess not." My husband asked if he could move on the price and the rep said no. That was about 2 weeks ago, and we haven't heard from him since. We thought, in this economy, he'd shave off a few hundred dollars, at the least.

Anyway, I'm set to go to HD tomorrow to order my granite and sink! There is a 12 month/no interest deal going on right now with HD's comsumer card (normally it's 6 month/no interest). Plus, if you go to HD's website, you may be able to find an offer for Stonemark countertops. This wasn't advertised at my local HD. There's one right now, valid for countertops installed w/in 60 days of 11/12/08. That 10% discount is taken right off the top when you place your order (not a rebate), and it applies to materials only (not the price of the demolition or an upgrade on your edges). I picked a B price group at $59/sf. I'm getting gorgeous slabs that comes from India and are approx. 525 million years old. For me, that's better than paying about the same for GT composite. I'll let you know about the customer service I get from Stonemark after the install.


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## jbbcpa

*Way to go Susan*

Thank goodness you woke up to the high prices of GT. I have never heard a word from my sales rep since he laid a $7357 (78 sq. ft) estimate on me. I am saving $3,100 dollars and getting real granite for $49 a sq ft. with backsplashes installed price $4,281. :yes:


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## Johnny Larue

Wow jbbcpa! Almost $100 a sq. ft. I owned a Gt and we were $50-$70 a sq. ft. in a large metro area. It pays to price shop that's for sure.


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## SusanInSoCal

*Thanks for all your input!*

Thanks to all of you who helped me decide how to proceed with my countertop choice. You helped me realize that GT was not a great deal. I do think that GT has a nice product, but if you think you'll save a lot of money going that route, but really want a granite slab, take your time to shop for a slab in your price range.

I ordered my granite today from HD. HD came up with the same square footage as GT did, by the way. Because I miscalculated what I'd save by opening a HD consumer credit card (I thought it was 10% off your entire first purchase, but that's not entirely the case), I didn't save as much as I thought I would. Bottom line, GT's quote was $6,320 (for 75 sf) including a "free" sink, and I spent only $40 more than that at HD today for a B group slab! And yes, I had to also buy a sink, and that cost a few hundred dollars extra. Overall, I am much happier with what I'm getting through Stonemark.


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## dskerchee

we recently had granite transformations installed in the kitchen and bathrooms. It is beautiful and we love it. Pricey? maybe, but there is less mess in the installation and less time. For 3 bathroom countertops and kitchen with backsplashes and beveled edges, installing new fixtures, the cost was approx. 8000.00. Leave off the bevels and do plumbing yourself and save about 1200.00.


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## Johnny Larue

*Don't Do It*

Hi,
I owned a G.T. and the issue is resale. No matter what you say, or do it is engineered stone. Best analogy is as follows;

A pergo wood floor is nice, but a real wood floor will attract more buyers to your home. And look better. :thumbsup:

A certain percentage of people will like pergo, or G.T. But go with the majority for resale. Buy something normal like Real Granite!!


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## HankieT

*Shower/ bathroom GT experiences?*

Hi-All-

Considering options for a necessary master shower renovation. GT going over existing tile sounds great. Can 'corian' type products do this?

I'd love to have some input from personal experiences, and also from the GT former franchise owner/installer.

:hammer: HankieT


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## Johnny Larue

*Using Corian Over Tile*

You can put Corian over tile. Not many companies in my area will do it. They have to use a waterproof epoxy underneath. Corian will stain more as well. Much more porous material. If the price is close G.T would be the best choice for you. 

A company called Graniclad will go over surfaces with real 3/8 inch Granite!!:thumbsup:

They are not national yet, so check you market.


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## Ingodscountry

*Granite transformations*

:thumbsup: Hi my name is Stephen, and I have done ALL the legwork/homework on corian, granite, tile, laminate, concrete and engineered stone/granite transformations.

Corian- 70's look, outdated, scratches and burns, has plastic look, but can be done without seeming, Demolition

$3,000-8,500

Granite- Beautiful veined god created stone perfect for ANYTHING but your countertops. Fragile, pitted and pourous surface and can be stained but will not scratch, requires demoliton, extremly durable cabinets, weight reinforcements (sometimes) cabinet leveling (if they aren't already perfectly level) harbors bacteria, contains uranium and in certain states is illegal to have in ANY food preperation areas and/or hospitals!! Demolition

$3,000-7,500

Tile- GROUT LINES!!! oh the grout lines, this is one of those homeower special type counters but gets old really quick, hard to keep clean but will look CHEAP. However this will hold heat well. Tile Prices have the BIGGEST PRICE RANGES, requires backer board, cost of tile, grout, thinset, substrate, grout sealer, and did I mention GROUT LINES!!!

$500-8,000

Laminate- I haven't met anyone interested in doing laminate anymore, even the HD laminates have way to many downfalls, I.E. scratching, burning, fading, looks CHEAP! Demolition

$800-4,000

Concrete- HAHAHAH it better be FREE!! talk about depriciating your home, concrete is what our ROADS are made of. Fragile tops and even with a finish on the surface to clog pours you now have a glossy scratched kitchen countertop after a few months! Demolition

$1000-6,000

Engineered Stone- OVERALL BY FAR THE BEST KITCHEN TOPS!!! This is just an opinion remember but do the homework yourself. Although engineered stone is pricier you are getting what you pay for. NON-pourous, won't scratch, holds heat, looks SIMILAR to Granite without the Granite issues. (Silestone, Quartz, Zodiac, Avonite, Granite Transformations) Demolition

$3,500-9,000

Granite Transformations- This is in its own class because it is the no demolition countertop or as they say "the countertop that fits on top." My wife and I found this to be the best option for countertops simply because it was the smartest route to go. I AM bias to this company now because I used them and they were GrEaT! I'll admit the cost was a little more then we wanted to spend but the peace of mind is WELL WORTH IT. Adam and Jimmy installed my tops in One day, were courteous and friendly. The whole experiance from when we called to the installation was nothing short of PERFECT. I do have a seam but you can't notice it. I don't have to worry about staining, scratching, burning (570 degrees) or MAINTENENCE (granite: sealing, polishing.revitalizing, enhancers) (corian: buffing/sanding scratches out) :thumbup: 

4,000-9,000

Our tops were $7,200 all together with counters, mosaic tile backsplashes that reach the bottom of our top row of cabinets, black blanco undermount sink, and the cost of the plumber was included. We had to buy a faucet but they installed that too. No messy work, no cabinet work or reiforement. THEY LOOK ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Sorry for the long post, hope this was helpful....

-Utah


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## Ingodscountry

Johnny Larue said:


> Hi,
> I owned a G.T. and the issue is resale. No matter what you say, or do it is engineered stone. Best analogy is as follows;
> 
> A pergo wood floor is nice, but a real wood floor will attract more buyers to your home. And look better. :thumbsup:
> 
> A certain percentage of people will like pergo, or G.T. But go with the majority for resale. Buy something normal like Real Granite!!


Johhny, I just wanted to say we had a wonderful experiance with granite transformations. I'll bet any money when you owned the company you weren't so quick to refer people to slab granite. I'll also bet you saw the value to their product since you went on board with them and attemped to use their product as a business opportunity to make money. I'm guessing you were one of the 160+ locations that didn't have much success selling value not price?:wink:


-Stephen


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## Johnny Larue

*Ingodscountry Huh?*



Ingodscountry said:


> Johhny, I just wanted to say we had a wonderful experiance with granite transformations. I'll bet any money when you owned the company you weren't so quick to refer people to slab granite. I'll also bet you saw the value to their product since you went on board with them and attemped to use their product as a business opportunity to make money. I'm guessing you were one of the 160+ locations that didn't have much success selling value not price?:wink:
> 
> 
> -Stephen


Of course I bought the business to make money:thumbup: Of course I never said slab was better. Of course I though it was cool it went on top. Still does not make it right for everyone.

If you read any of my posts you will see I had great installers, (literally hundreds of satisfied letters) good profits, and sold recenty very quickly, (due to my wife's health issues among others). I only wanted to offer an insiders view of G.T. and answer specific technical questions etc. Not talk about my business skills!! Let's stay on point and not throw dirt on me please!

Your quote of "I'm guessing ...you couldn't sell value?" is funny. Sounds like an insult, but at the price I sold my Biz for I'll take that talk all day!!

However, your post makes you sound like an insider. I "heard" they had Corporate & Franchisees post on various boards all the time. I am not sure if that is true or not. And I am not trying to insult you by bringing this up.

My apologizies to people wanting to hear about G.T. As a former owner I wanted to answer questions about the product. And I still will. But I will not respond to posts trying to go off the topic of genuine questions about the product. I can tell you the good and the bad. Decide for yourself. 

A simple fact I found out to late was that in my market G.T. doesn't add the same resale value to your home as Real Granite. Real Granite can do much better edges, etc. as well. 

It's easy to criticize, sitting on the sidelines, but until you owned one, only then would you understand all the issues. Good and bad.


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## Ingodscountry

Johnny Larue said:


> Of course I bought the business to make money:thumbup: Of course I never said slab was better. Of course I though it was cool it went on top. Still does not make it right for everyone.
> 
> If you read any of my posts you will see I had great installers, (literally hundreds of satisfied letters) good profits, and sold recenty very quickly, (due to my wife's health issues among others). I only wanted to offer an insiders view of G.T. and answer specific technical questions etc. Not talk about my business skills!! Let's stay on point and not throw dirt on me please!
> 
> Your quote of "I'm guessing ...you couldn't sell value?" is funny. Sounds like an insult, but at the price I sold my Biz for I'll take that talk all day!!
> 
> However, your post makes you sound like an insider. I "heard" they had Corporate & Franchisees post on various boards all the time. I am not sure if that is true or not. And I am not trying to insult you by bringing this up.
> 
> My apologizies to people wanting to hear about G.T. As a former owner I wanted to answer questions about the product. And I still will. But I will not respond to posts trying to go off the topic of genuine questions about the product. I can tell you the good and the bad. Decide for yourself.
> 
> A simple fact I found out to late was that in my market G.T. doesn't add the same resale value to your home as Real Granite. Real Granite can do much better edges, etc. as well.
> 
> It's easy to criticize, sitting on the sidelines, but until you owned one, only then would you understand all the issues. Good and bad.


 


Johnny, now you're just hurting my feelings. I am not meaning to insult you or throw dirt in any way, especially when you compliment me by considering me an "insider" to their company. In a way I guess I am. Very happy customers are almost better then the best sales person. If nothing else I was just unsure of your comments especially because the company was SO SUCCESSFUL for you but now you seem to be shying away from the thing that allows you financial happyness. No dirt no name calling, just curious. But thats I guess none of my business. )

I did almost the exact opposite thing that you did. I USED to own a Granitclad and know all the down sides to granite. Even in the resale world. Corian used to be "IT" if you had corian you knew what you were doing. NOW....however if you have corian people want to know why??? I've found that granite is in its downturn. It WAS the most popular top available and for 15,000G's you could get it. Now they give the stuff away because the other BETTER options out there made their prices come so far down to compete. But anyways I'm not on here to argue at all I in fact agree with you. I do think granite LOOKS better but for families, resale, food prep, and safety I DO NOT believe it is the best option. (Remember Asbestos).

*Asbestos* is a mineral with long, thin fibrous crystals. The word _asbestos_ (῾ἀσβεστος) is derived from a Greek adjective meaning inextinguishable. The Greeks termed asbestos the _miracle mineral_ because of its soft and pliant properties, as well as its ability to withstand heat.
Asbestos is known to have toxicity. The inhalation of toxic asbestos fibers can cause serious illnesses, including malignant mesothelioma, lung cancer, and asbestosis (also called pneumoconiosis). Since the mid 1980s, many uses of asbestos have been banned in several countries.
Asbestos became increasingly popular among manufacturers and builders in the late 19th century due to its resistance to heat, electricity and chemical damage, its sound absorption and tensile strength. When asbestos is used for its resistance to fire or heat, the fibers are often mixed with cement or woven into fabric or mats. Asbestos was used in some products for its heat resistance, and in the past was used on electric oven and hotplate wiring for its electrical insulation at elevated temperature, and in buildings for its flame-retardant and insulating properties, tensile strength, flexibility, and resistance to chemicals.

Well that's how I feel about Granite countertops. The NEXT Asbestos....With the issues with bacteria and now radon emitions. So I'm just trying to also, just like you, show and reviel what I believe to be the best options out there having been in the business 10+ years:thumbup:.


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## Johnny Larue

*ingodscountry*

No hard feelings.

I had a successful biz and wanted to share my opinions. You can own 10 McDonald's, but still tell people about the benefits, and dangers of owning or eating there. If you are saying I am changing my tune because I no longer own it, you are right. Contractually I could not tell people things about it while I owned it. And when you sell G.T. or Toyota's you haveto believe you are best, and know your weaknesses.

Graniclad was pretty poorly run down in Florida when I visited the owner in Orlando, FL. My brother and I checked it out (2005?) as he wanted to buy one out of state. Might as well get real granite.

You bringing up asbestos is not the best analogy. However, asbestos is a good scare tactic. You can have asbestos floor tile in your basement, and if you don;t disturb it your fine. Same as som asbestos on pipes. When you remove it you cause the problems. When it's loose and unraveling on a pipe different story. What about older plastic water supply pipes? Etc Etc..

The radon is a non issue. Test the air where you breathe, not on the counter. I guess if you lived in a plastic tent, on top of your counter, that was sealed, all day and night you might be scared. Numerous studies after the initial scare reports shows that while their is a bit of radon it is insignificant. We are exposed to radon in numerous places. Going for a wlk etc. Just like mercury in our air, chemicals in our water. And some engineered stone emits *chemicals* as well as radon. Scare tactic salesmen will use it. We had people ask if G.T. emits radon and I said it might as well since it's granite. And it might out gas the resins and epoxy that are used as well. It could (?) out gas harsher chemicals than real granite. Due to the epoxies used to fasten the granite, and the chemicals in the slab itself. We can play the scare game all day, flouride, mercury, chlorine

You can find granite with lower radon levels, as you know. Depends on the part of the earth it came from, and the type. I am glad you have 10 years of grante experience and bought G.T. for your home. As I said I had a great team as well. 

In my home, while I* owned G.T. *I put in real granite countertops. Beautiful with *great installers*. My point is not all G.T.'s have good installers, just like all granite Shops. And as you know some jobs just go wrong no matter what you do. 

*Again just a fact here.* Resale value in my area. Validated by realtors and appraisers. My neighbor is an appraiser.

1. Granite
2. Engineered Stone With Fancy Edges. Cambria, Silestone,
3 G.T.
3 Corian
4. Laminate

In my market not many concrete or tile counters.

And if you read some posts guys were quoting close to and over $100 a sq. ft. for G.T. You could get cambria, silestone, or real granite for much less. We were around $55-$75 sq. ft. installed.

Again anyone with questions on G.T. vs. other goods let me know. My wife thought we should give back and share experiences with people in a forum like this. Anyone else have genuine questions let me know.

But I'll scare you all like in godscountry did about granite. In his home right now installed G.T. he has the following.

If you get G.T. ask to see the material data sheet on the epoxy. Ask to see the material data sheet on the resins they use to form the edges. Ask to see material data sheets on the chemicals in the slabs. Ask how much radon testing is done on there slabs.

*Then ask G.T. if they have studies on how long they take to outgas all of those chemicals in your home. And are any of them dangerous to breathe and do they cause cancer, or other problems?*

I am sure ingodscountry did that before he bought. And did he see the shop the workers work in. It all should be wet cut, but it's not. And on the job site, even outside, they dry cut and don't always where the proper respirators. You need to have a full Dr.'s exam annually to where a proper respirator. Not a paper mask. And then your clothes and truck are dusty so employees are breathing this all day. So you may have had a great crew that will have health issues. I fought against that and changed it in my shop only.

Real Granite all wet cut on a cnc. Or wet cut on site for any touch ups.

My point laminate glue outgases, carpet does, paint etc. 

*Is Engineered Stone like G.T. or Silestone the next asbestos?*


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## Ingodscountry

Well as you said you have to be the judge of all that yourself. I asked GRANITE TRANSFORMATIONS about radon/bateria because those are some of the biggest issues filtering the internet right now. Whether or not Home Depot told me that those issues are true, yet not super serious I wanted to find out for myself. Actually Granite Transformations has tested all of their Stone and Recycled Glass...I contacted the Ontario, California office and all their stone and glass is 100% SAFE.....And as I told you about the Granitclad I was always telling customers, our granite had 1/4 of the radon because is was a thinner slice of granite at 3/8" or 7mm-9mm. Here are just some of my findings.....

*Granite Bacteria Issues*

This topic is a surprise to many readers, that granite can harbor living 
organisms. Yet in fact, all that is needed for life to thrive is a protected spot 
to live, moisture and something to eat. Granite provides all three of these 
needs.:wallbash:

Since a sealer cannot completely block out water, thus moisture will be 
available. Even deep underground, with no sunlight or nutrients, bacteria 
thrive. One type of bacteria turns minerals into food, while another type uses 
the waste products left over and so on.

However, in a counter top, there is food available, grease, crumbs, all manner 
of proteins, sugars, and carbohydrates smeared around and ground down into 
a paste by use and cleaning, then forced into crevices and pores.

Do a Google search on shopping carts and bacteria, see how long they last 
with only moisture from hands and nutrients from skin oils. Countertops are a 
haven for bacteria, which is why sanitation is so important.

This is a sore point with stone shops - the bacterial aspects of granite. 
Studies have proven the susceptibility of granite to bacterial colonization and 
other studies have shown the rapid increase in food borne illness, yet no one 
has done a study to find any correlation between the two. That will be done in 
the near future, first a paper study to bring together what has been done 
already, then food borne illness records will be checked to see what 
percentage have granite countertops in the home. Denying scientific proof 
that granite is unsanitary is just trying to justify a purchase or trying to sell 
more stone tops.

One study on granite and bacteria was very thorough, yet it has been 
attacked by the granite industry. If you do the math on the results of the study 
you see why they are worried about the impact on their product. Here is a 
short version of what NASA found and why a homeowner would want to know.

*Imagine, **NASA's findings** of over 100,000 bacteria per gram of granite, plus *
*many, many bacteria spore. Here is the math, stone averages about 16 *
*pounds per square foot (3 cm) x 453.6 grams per pound = 7257.6 grams per *
*square foot.*

*7257.6 x 100,000 bacteria per gram (NASA's figure)= 725,760,000 bacteria *
*per square foot of countertop. Average top is around 75 square foot, so *
*725,760,000 bacteria per square foot x 75 average square foot top = *
*54,432,000,000 bacteria per countertop.*

Over 54 Billion bacteria, just in the cracks and crevices alone, not counting 
what is on the surface. If a 5 log reduction could be done reliably, there would 
still be over a half million bacteria left in the cracks and crevices after 
disinfection. Twenty minutes after disinfection, the bacteria would have 
doubled to one million, forty minutes, two million, an hour later four million, and 
so on. In about four hours, the bacteria have multiplied to 2,229,534,720. In 
seven hours, the bacteria will have multiplied to 150 billion bacteria.

Keep in mind that these NASA figures were for rock taken from a desert 
environment, with little food and water available for the bacteria. Imagine the 
average stone top, soaking in moisture from cleaning the top surface, and 
humidity from the bottom and edges.

On the studies page, there is a Brazillian/Portugese study that showed up to 
590% more bacteria retained on a granite surface than a plastic surface such 
as polypropylene or polyethylene. The study concluded that granite was more 
prone to colonization by bacteria and that sanitizing granite countertops was 
very important.

This thread was from a stone fabrication site: Smelly granite, bacteria or mold? 
And while they didn't mention bacteria or mold, the advice to use bleach left 
no doubt as to what was causing the problems. 

Another study showed Salmonella bacteria thriving in granite outcroppings, 
even surviving desiccation for extended periods. Prior to this study, it was 
thought that Salmonella were present in human and mammal intestinal tracts 
and were spread by poor practices in slaughter houses. Now it is know that 
regardless of the source, from the stone when it was mined or from meat juice 
contamination, the granite provides a suitable home for the bacteria to thrive.

Another study shows the danger of bacteria found in the soil because of the 
natural antibiotics secreted by plants and other bacteria. Some will say that 
the natural bacteria that normally colonizes granite will keep the quantity of 
dangerous bacteria down by competition, yet this study shows that sometimes 
it makes the dangerous bacteria more resistant to drugs.

The Marble Institute has two studies that it relies on when claiming that granite 
is a safe material for a countertop. Both are riddled with errors and omissions. 
Both are discussed on the Studies page of this site.

Granite is a proven habitat for bacteria,despite other claims. Sanitizing granite 
countertops must be done on a regular basis to keep the population of 
bacteria down to a level that a healthy human immune system can handle. 
This is easily done, yet the harsh sanitizing solutions quickly strip any sealer 
present on the surface of the granite as well as degrading any resins used to 
fill pits and fissures in the slabs during polishing. So you have a choice, 
unsanitary countertops or easily stained countertops.:furious:










*Granite is not so safe* 
I don't know if I would have tore the Granite out as its very expensive but since you are a chef you must take your Kitchen seriously.

Recently one of the major hotel chains "Hxxxxx" just settled a major lawsuit because someone had a lung condition and their claim is that the mold and mildew under the top caused it. I doubt it did but the hotel chain has since forbidden any Granite from going into new developments. They are trying to keep it quiet because it would be impossible to replace every top in their hotel chain that happens to be granite.

It is true that Granite is not NFS certified and cannot be used in food prep areas on restaurants or public places. It makes you wonder that if its not safe enough for a restaurant is it something you'd want in your home? Granite companies chuckle at this but I have ripped out old granite tops that were never resealed and when we broke it apart it smelled like rotten meat.

SO OBVIOUSLY each top has their own plus/minus report card. And Fact of the matter is I don't know of ANY WORLDWIDE granite distributors. It's mostly mom and pop locations. So just review your needs/product/company AND WARRANTY. Then make the best decision possible, we did and LOVE OUR COUNTERS. :yes::thumbup:


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## Johnny Larue

*Ingodscountry*

G.T. will not increase your home value as much as granite. And it will cost more, look chunky and fake, and only offers two edges. And the beveled edge is a glued in, 1/2 inch strip of granite, not cnc machined with precision edges like granite.

He's right about one thing. If you are afraid of germs buy Silestone, etc. 

 G.T. in my market, will not improve the value as much as Silestone, Cambria, or Granite when you sell. Your area may be different.

I am impressed with all your links. :thumbsup: Unfortunately, almost all of them are in the Engineeered Stone Pitchbook used to sell and scare people. I know, I used them, and I still have granite in my home. Most of my friends, and neighbors do as well. And none of us are sick, or in the hospital with salmonella, or any other problems. Tile is unsanitary (grout,cracks) and we all survived. Wood counters were used for years and somehow we are all still alive. And Granite has been used for years and we are all ok with this menace in our lives.

You have heard of F.U.D. selling. Fear, uncertaintity and doubt. Well, people like you were our #1 customers. 

Afraid of germs and bacteria. Use a cutting board, and don't leave raw chicken on your counters. F.Y.I. these same links and tactics are used by Cambria and Silestone. 

*So the Ontario office told you it was safe.*

*With your experienced granite background I have a question for you. Does G.T. have on their website M.D.S. (material data sheets) for all the products they put in your home? Or working conditions in their shops? *

*Did you ask G.T. to answer you with actual paper documents, or a personal visit to the shop the following;*

Did you actually see the material data sheet regarding the epoxy used?

Did you see the material data sheet on the edge glue used?

Did you see the material data sheet on the resins in your slab?

Did you see an document that your slab was tested for radon?
note; I am not saying G.T. has radon just making a point.

Did you see the shop the slab was cut in?

Did you think dry cutting G.T. was safer than wet cutting for employees?
Dust in air, etc.

Did you have any stoning/ polishing of edges, or cutting in your home exposing you to dust?

I am done replying directly to you. I am not into this to debate. I am sure you are a good person who means well, as do I. But, I wanted to help people with technical questions, etc about G.T. My sick wife felt as if we were abandoning our customers and wanted me to help people out with a G.T. purchase. You are entitled to your belief, as am I. 

So I guess any G.T. posters will get 2 replies to a post now. One from me, and one from you. But I'll no longer address you, (or even if you change your screen name:no or anyone about this nonsense.

I am surprised all granite shops aren't closed, and every granite countertop removed by the gov't today. And where is the data on the increased health issues with granite related illnesses? Real #'s from Dr.'s and hospitals about this national "Granite Crisis"? 

You must of remembered the Salesmen Pitchbook by heart, or you work for G.T.:thumbup: Watch out you might have a lot of toxic granite and epoxies in your home. Oh wait they told you it was safe. And look at all the tiny pinholes when you shine a light on you counter. Bacteria could be hiding in there. And any caulk on the countertop isn't sanitary. Maybe you should bleach it daily. Were all going to die someday, and I guarantee the death rate and lifespan of people with granite tops, and with G.T. will be identical. G.T is fine and granite is fine.

Sorry to everyone else, but people like this spreading fear upset me. Again G.T. is an fine choice for your home. The items I mentioned above about G.T. should not make you be afraid or hesitant to put G.T. in your home at all. My parents and sister have G.T and they are not sick from the epoxy or the product., and they love it. I was just trying to illuminate the fact that every product has it's weaknesses. Just look at all your options.


----------



## Johnny Larue

*Ingodscountry*

G.T. will not increase your home value as much as granite. And it may cost more, look chunky and fake, and they only offer two edges. And the beveled edge is a glued in, 1/2 inch strip of granite, not cnc machined with precision edges like granite. 

Your'e right about one thing. If you are afraid of germs buy Silestone, etc.

G.T. in my market, will not improve the value as much as Silestone, Cambria, or Granite when you sell. Your area may be different. 

Having said that I put it in my Mom's house, sister's house and thousand of satisfied customer homes. I just want people to see all the choices and not be scared or bullied.

I am impressed with all your links. Unfortunately, almost all of them are in the Engineeered Stone Pitchbook used to sell and scare people. I know, I used them, and I still have granite in my home. Most of my friends, and neighbors do as well. And none of us are sick, or in the hospital with salmonella, or any other problems. Tile is unsanitary (grout,cracks) and we all survived. Wood counters were used for years and somehow we are all still alive. And Granite has been used for years and we are all ok with this menace in our lives.

You have heard of F.U.D. selling. Fear, uncertaintity and doubt. Well, people like you were our #1 customers. 

Afraid of germs and bacteria. Use a cutting board, and don't leave raw chicken on your counters. F.Y.I. these same links and tactics are used by Cambria and Silestone. 

So the Ontario office told you it was safe.

With your experienced granite background I have a question for you. Does G.T. have on their website M.D.S. (material data sheets) for all the products they put in your home? Or working conditions in their shops? 

Did you ask G.T. to answer you with actual paper documents, or a personal visit to the shop the following;

Did you actually see the material data sheet regarding the epoxy used?

Did you see the material data sheet on the edge glue used?

Did you see the material data sheet on the resins in your slab?

Did you see an document that your slab was tested for radon?
note; I am not saying G.T. has radon just making a point.

Did you see the shop the slab was cut in?

Did you think dry cutting G.T. was safer than wet cutting for employees?
Dust in air, etc.

Did you have any stoning/ polishing of edges, or cutting in your home exposing you to dust?

Do you all see my point? You can be sold, or scared out of buying anything! 

I am done replying directly to I.G.C. If I want to debate, I'll debate my wife I am sure you are a good person who means well, as do I. But, I wanted to help people with technical questions, etc about G.T. My sick wife felt as if we were abandoning our customers and wanted me to help people out with a G.T. purchase. You are entitled to your belief, as am I. 

So I guess any G.T. posters will get 2 replies to a post now. One from me, and one from you. But I'll no longer address you, (or even if you change your screen name) or anyone about this nonsense.

I am surprised all granite shops aren't closed, and every granite countertop removed by the gov't today. And where is the data on the increased health issues with granite related illnesses? Real #'s from Dr.'s and hospitals about this national "Granite Crisis"? 

You must of remembered the Salesmen Pitchbook by heart, or you could work for G.T.? They did have posters, like owners,etc. Watch out you might have a lot of toxic granite and epoxies in your home. Oh wait they told you it was safe. And look at all the tiny pinholes when you shine a light on you counter. Bacteria could be hiding in there. And any caulk on the countertop isn't sanitary. Maybe you should bleach it daily. Were all going to die someday, and I guarantee the death rate and lifespan of people with granite tops, and with G.T. will be identical. G.T is fine and granite is fine.

Sorry to everyone else, but people like this spreading fear upset me. Again G.T. is an fine choice for your home. The items I mentioned above about G.T. should not make you be afraid or hesitant to put G.T. in your home at all. Agai my parents and sister have G.T and they are not sick from the epoxy or the product, and they love it. Although my sisters husband still wants granite. I was just trying to illuminate the fact that every product has it's weaknesses. Just look at all


----------



## BradW

*Facts on Pricing*



AndreM said:


> Today my wife and I had our in home estimate done. Our total square footage came out to almost 40 sqft. Before the GT salesman who also happens to own the business gave us the final figures. I asked him is there a standard price per square foot, he stated no and that the price per square foot differs from one kitchen to the next. Immediately what came to mind is all of the concerns that my fellow bloggers have had about the variance in price per square foot.
> So finally he completes his paperwork and lays out the final numbers. This quote included the mosiac backsplash, undermount sink,faucet and plumbing. For the euro edge it came to $5499 or $137.50 per sqft and for the bevel edge it came to $6174 or $154.35 per sqft.:huh:
> 
> My wife and I felt that,that price per sqft was really high and we also felt that since there is no standardized pricing per sqft it leaves you open to being taken advantage of because you don't know if your getting a fair deal or not. Just based on the pricing differences in this blog alone I felt like I was really taken for a ride. Even if we took out the sink,faucet and plumbing the price is still not that much of a difference.
> Granted there product is beautiful but at that cost, we immediately thought hey we could get 100% granite and a decente grade of granite for less. Granted yes there are different grades of granite but I feel if we shop around we could find a good deal. We have even decided to go to granite distributors in our area and see if we can get a deal on large remnants they have left over and get a price on getting that installed. That was also something we saw on HGTV.
> 
> To all of you looking at GT I hope that you get a better offer than we did, I still feel that it is a great product but not for the price I was quoted.


I'd like to provide some facts related to Andre's experience with Granite Transformations. Andre contacted my store inquring about our product and if we serviced his home which is nearly 45 miles from our store. We told him we would, but that we required a drawing first so we could provide him an estimate for his project so he could make sure it was within his budget. He provided a drawing of his kitchen and was provided a written estimate a few days PRIOR to his scheuduled in-home appointment. That preliminary estimate was calculated for his countertop and corresponding 4" backsplash. The countertop was about 46 square feet and the backsplash was another 6. The estimated cost for the countertop, 4" backsplash, material, installation, delivery, AND sales tax was for $3,380 or just under $64 per square foot when the price is reverse engineered. We routinley tell our customer who inquire that our Trend Stone product costs between $50 and $80 depending on the color selected and the configuration of the kitchen. In addition to the countertop Andre was provided estimates for the costs of a new sink, faucet and plumbing services in case he wished to purchase those services along with the countetop. Again, this estimate was provided in writing a few days before the in-home appointment. 

Upon arriving at Andre's home and discussing the project with him, he requested that I quote him for the countertop and a tall backsplash that went from the countertop all the way up to his cabinets on the two walls in his kitchen. This increased the total square footage of the job by almost 50% but reduced the square footage cost of the Trend Stone material to under $63.00 per foot including material, installation, delivery, AND SALES TAX. In fact my actual pricing for just the countertop and 4" backsplash was nearly $100 less than the estimate I had provided him a few days earlier (I know because I checked my figures against the estimate to see how close I was). 

The bevel edge does add more cost to the project and is always provided as an option. However, if you add so much more square footage in the backsplash and then add sinks, faucets, & plumbing services and simply divide by the countertop square footage (and evidently a low calculation of that number too) then the overall square footage pricing is going to look very high.

By Andre's own figures the pricing I provided would have made our countertop less expensive than the Silestone he compared us to. I love competing against Silestone because our product provides the same maintenance free experience with a MUCH nicer and more natural look. Don't take my word for it, visit a Granite Transformations store near you and take along your favorite Silestone sample to compare to our Trend Stone product.

We don't sell or advertise our product (in the Northern Virginia market) as being less expensive than anything; although we are very competitively priced with the other engineered countertops in our market. We do market it as being a fantastic product that performs awesome in the kitchen and bathroom. Durability is also superior (IMO) and you can see for yourself on our website where we have a YouTube video of one of our TV commercials we run on the CBS station in Washington DC. I dropped a 12 lbs bowling ball on an island countertop nearly 20 times for the making of the commercial and the top still looked great. www.granitetransformations.com/nova 

Brad Wintermute, 
Store Owner
Granite Transformations of Northern Virginia


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## BradW

*HGTV clarification*



AndreM said:


> I live in the DC metro area and as always just about every night my wife and I were watching HGTV show "Designed to Sell" with designer Tania, her show focuses on the DC metro area. Now if your familiar with the show you know that there budget is only $2000.
> 
> So the designer Tania was working on updating the kitchen and she told the homeowner a inexpensive way to update the kitchen counter tops is with this product call GT and then in comes *Brad Wintermute* who is the owner of GT in Northern Virginia to explain the product to the homeowner. "By the way he was the one that came to my house and gave my wife and I the unusually high quote for roughly 40 sqft of counter space."
> 
> So my wife and I are looking at the homeowners counter space and we both said they have just as much counter space as we do - plus not to mention the designer built a breakfast bar off the kitchen that she also had covered with GT.
> 
> So at the end of the show when they were tallying up what was spend, GT was able to cover all of there countertops and newly built breakfast bar for $934 :furious:
> 
> So I thought to myself maybe Brad gave them a special price because he was on national TV or maybe that was a the real price since you have designer going around saying "oh GT is an inexpensive way to get granite"
> 
> Regardless either way there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the drastic sliding scale of the price your quoted for GT. It would really help if we had an owner or installer of GT explain why is that or at least give some ideas as to why the wide variance in pricing structure.


 
Since I'm mentioned by name in this posting I thought I'd provide some facts regarding HGTV's Design to Sell show that features our Granite Transformations product and has me on-camera for part of the show. The episode was filmed in Northern Virginia and included my store installing a beautiful Trend Stone countertop as part of the home's update project. The Design to Sell budget is $2,000 but our countertop cost for that project was $3,120, The show indicates that they spent $934 of their budget on countertops and then explain that they could not have kept within their budget if the homeowner's didn't contribute to the appliances and countertops. We've been very careful to explain this to those who call our store inquiring about the countertops they saw on HGTV. 

As for the "swings" in pricing that several people have noted in their postings to this forum. I think much of the swing would be in how the homeowner is calculating the square footage number to use for determining the square footage cost. Installed Material cost divided by total square footage of material used = actual square footage cost.

As for the "mysterious" Granite Transformations pricing system, we use a labor and materials pricing structure. The result is that a 50 square foot kitchen with a large island and a few large countertop surfaces will pay less than another 50 square foot kitchen that has several small individual sections of countertops. They are both 50 square feet but there is a great deal more labor in the one with many more tops. When the final price is reverse-engineered to figure a square foot cost there will be a difference. That is why we don't advertise a simple square foot price. In Northern Virginia though we see sales range between $50 and $80 per foot for Trend Stone kitchen countertops depending on the exact color selected and the configuration of the kitchen.

Our pricing is very good when compared to the benefits our product provides. Therefore, while we are not always the cheapest purchase price we are in many cases the best value over the long run. Just listen to some of the perspective homeowners on the Design to Sell show - they mention how great the countertops look over and over again. In addition, the homeowners tell the viewers they received multiple offers on the home!!


Brad Wintermute
Store Owner
Granite Transformations of Northern Virginia


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## Johnny Larue

*BradW*

Brad runs a nice shop! look at the colors and you'll see his name, (or his brother's on the sample!And his post is great at explaining the show pricing situation. 

But, every shop is run differently. Anyone can call Kansas City, (along with others) and get a sq. ft. price range over the phone. they felt Slab granite gives a range as wel so why not. If you don't do that right away it creates mistrust. And K.C. are very successful treating customers that way. Brad may do this as well. All shops are free to price and be run as they choose. Old school in home selling says don't tell them a price, just go out and sell. Some people don't like that, and a few G.T. shops may still do this. We always gave a range and still made money.

And you can talk to many satisfied Granite owners. Get references, Angie's list, etc. Look at all your choices, and don't buy from the first guy that walks in the door.

G.T is a good Product! And thank God we all don't bowl in our kitchen's! But in MY area it doesn't add as much value as Granite, or Silestone, Cambria,etc to the home's resale value. But what does these days

I was around when G.T. said we can't do a beveled edge, back when they were based in CA. I have seen the beveled edge from about 10 shops, and they have to be lightly stoned (sanded) so it rounds then down a bit. And on a long run they "can" sometimes look wavy. And they areglued together, where Slab Granite, Silestone, or Cambria are not. So if you are picky and look close you WILL see the glue lines. But if you aren't a picky person don't sweat it. it is a strong joint and won't fall apart! I promise.

Granite is wet cut and a cnc machine precisely does the cutting. But, they can cost 30k to over 100K!

A few G.T. shops are wet cutting everything now which gives you a better cut, and less dust. But most use a big tile saw to wet cut the small returns and front aprons. then they cut your counter with a dry saw on a foam backed table. I don't know of any with a precise, high quality, and expensive, cnc machine. Not that cheap one from Italy (?) If you see how a granite shop's cnc machine is programmed to make all the cuts wet, and perfect it is cool. Correct me if I'm wrong Brad!

If you have laminate now, and want G.T.make sure your backsplash is an inch thin or less. If you have anything bigger, than that when it's covered with G.T. it will look too thick and fake to most people. Have them put 3/4 board down. Customers would complain months later when a friend etc. pointed that out. Traditional granite, silestone splashes are 3/4 inch to 1&1/2 inch. So we would offer the option of removing the splash for all the people.

Again you may not care, but just have it explained and shown to you, in someone's house, showroom and pictures. You could also go to a home with granite installed, and then a G.T. home. Most offices have customers that will let you do this. The G.T. will look thicker and chunkier. Unless you rip out the counter and put in 3/4 particle board. But that defeats the point of G.T.

Any beveled or fancy edge from a cnc machine will always win out, if that's important to you. Some could care less so go for G.T.
And in shower, and tub surrounds it's great as well.

But I wonder if people ever look at the shops with all the dust. Granite as well, although less if it's a good shop. Even with respirators it get's in their clothes and cars, etc. And they don't always wear them on the job. Look at the back of a granite shop as well. It tells you a lot about the company. If it's neat etc.

There are many great independent granite shops as well. I referred people to them if they did not want our product. I saw great installers and lot's of positive comments about granite shops as well.

Look at all your options and make your choice. I owned a G.T. I put it in my showers. And my mom's & sister's condo's. So I am NOT anti- G.T. :no: And I put real granite in my kitchen for resale and beauty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And all products, even G.T. and slab have faults. It depends on what's important to you.

P.S. Just like Slab Granite, G.T. is not always the same as the sample you see from the salesmen, or the showroom. So check your slab before they cut it so the color you bought your'e happy with. And do that with slab granite as well. When slab color changes from the old slab color, (understandable real granite is not consistent in color) G.T. will give it a new name. What else can you do with it? But it messes with your offcut, and margins a bit.


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## Al Gerhart

*This is ridiculous...*

What a mess! Being an insider in the countertop business, I can tell shills when I read them, and this thread is packed! One from Utah was nice enough to copy some of the info I have gathered over the years on the risks of granite countertops. And yes, I also fabricate and sell granite, just try to keep the more dangerous ones out of peoples homes.

To start with, Granite Transformation's is a train wreck waiting to happen. Most materials will expand with temperature changes. One example of considering this is reinforced concrete, steel used to provide tensile reinforcement in concrete, but both materials expand for the same reason (heat) and at the same rate (called the co efficient of expansion).

In the solid surface industry this has caused problems for the few companies that ignored it, WilsonArt is an excellent example, with their SSV, thin solid surface glued to a substrate. Cracked up counters and millions of dollars in warranty claims led to their class action lawsuit settlement. As usual, the lawyers got rich and the counsumers got 5 cents on the dollar.

Now comes Granite Transformations doing the same thing but with a twist. They will glue this stuff to anything, which makes one realize that they haven't considered co efficient of expansion at all. Think about this, quartz products have resin and quartz, both expand with heat. Wood does the opposite, it shrinks as it drys. Now ceramic tile isn't moving much, but the are gluing their product to it? Were they to recomend a specific substrate, I might not have an ironclad arguement, but they will glue it to what ever is in place.

Then there is the "demolition costs so much money and is so dirty". Hogwash! Maybe for a tile countertop, but most laminate tops will lift right off after taking a couple of screws out. Even the ones that were covered in place and nailed down take an hour to remove. Maybe $200 for removal if the debri is hauled away.

And we fabricate and sell all types of countertops, including the thin stuff if people really want it. But it actually costs more than granite, solid surface, or quartz countertops. No one in their right mind will take a chance on this stuff once they know the truth.

Really folks... consumers aren't stupid and they have internet access just like you do. Most demo is done by the homeowners, or an hours work and a few hundred bucks will deal with the old top. Most of our installations take a few hours if a seam needs set, many just drop in place in less than an hour.

And electricians doing plumbing work.... how well do you think this jokers insurance is going to pay off if he messes up and ruins your floors and cabinets? Most shops have plumbers to recomend, and it won't be any cheaper if you pay GT to subcontract it for you and hide it in their price.

For any consumers that are still reading this ridiculous thread, check out the independent countertop shops, the ones that sell various products. They have lots to sell, they won't lie to you like the single product shops, and most can sell you a better top for less money.

Solidsurface and engineered marble start at $30 per square foot for a quality job. Stone is dirt cheap right now, but so is the quality at the dirt cheap prices. Quality stone will run you close to $60 per square foot, more than quartz which starts at $42 per square foot. Check it all out and find out which product fits your lifestyle best.

Oh, the Radon/radiation controversy is the real deal. There are two committees looking into it, AARST (Radon scientists), and CRCPD (state radiation officials group). Both will set standards for maximum Radon/radiation content in granite sold to consumers, perhaps in the coming months. The ANSI and ASME organizations are also looking into the issues.

We have a forum on the controversy and are currently conducting a full scale Radon test, 18 square foot of granite in an 8' x 12' x 8' tall room built for the test. So far, 10 pCi/L and rising. About like smoking 1 1/2 packs of cigarettes a day.

http://forum.solidsurfacealliance.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=98


Good lord, I feel the need to take a shower after reading all eleven pages of this thread! Out to bag this thread and sell it for fertilizer.


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## Johnny Larue

*Al gerhart*

Thanks for the great post Al. :yes: Is graniclad still around? lol

people, educate yourself, and put whatever you want in your home.

My G.T. we recommended licensed plumbers to reconnect. We were insured, and allowed in our State to disconnect only. But we NEVER reconnected. And a ton of G.T. guys charge $175 to $275 to reconnect. They are breaking the law, and their insurance won't cover them if you need a license to reconnect.

But demolishing an old counter, even tile, isn't the end of the world. Tile MAY take longer, and is dusty, but the apron will be 2 inches plus thick. Ugly!! And G.T. can say they are "Green" by reusing your substrate. lol. And they have a lifetime warranty!! As long as you live there. It used to be transferable, but not anymore. Warranty has holes you could drive a truck through. imo.

G.T. is 95% granite, and 5% resins. And it has been tested as having little, to no radon problems, just like Silestone, or Cambria.

Click link below, about the granite scare.










http://www.radon.com/radon/granite.html


Trend Stone is about 1/4inch thick, with a fiberglass mesh, and is flexible before installation. It's been in Australia, for over 10 years, and manufactured for 30 plus years in Italy. And put on wood surfaces there with no issues. And the expansion issue hasn't been a problem. If you actually saw it installed and worked with it, you would see why. But the time bomb for them is the shop conditions, O.S.H.A., and they use seam, or edge glue on all the joints. 

Those can chip easily. And when you look close you can see it's two pieces glued together. Once you fixate on it, it is all over. And it's all handstoned, then hand polished. Looks crummy where the deck meets the apron imo. And the beveled edge is a wavy, handstoned, and not crisp edged imo. The they put red devil spackle under the apron to fill the void between the old substrate, and the new. if the deck is a little wide, you will have a lot of spackle! So that is soft, and constantly picked at by kids,etc.

I sold my biz, (no shill,promise) We would coat the substrate with an unbeleivable epoxy, before overlaying granite. This stuff is used underwater in Salt Water oceanariums to make coral reefs, etc. So no claims have been made that I know of on that issue. Over formica, tile, or even brick fireplaces surrounds, and hearths, it was good.

One newer installer put down 3/4 particle board, (new construction) and forgot to screw it down everywhere. It bowed, but did not break. So we screwed the counter down tight, and it straighten up. You can run a heat gun over it if you think it might crack, as well. The product has a little flex to it. You can even heat it up and cover a curved radius surface. We did a few nice desks that way. Lay a sheet in the sun, and you could really bend it. Makes for a cool looking reception desk.

It works great on a tile tub surround, or shower surround. I actually know that is best place you may save money, and hassle by using it. Especially a large shower surround with steam , and body sprays. Other than that it's pretty worthless. 

Great to see a honest post!!


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## Johnny Larue

*Granite cause for Concern About Radon, or just hype?*

Yes, the truth is that granite can raise the radon levels in your home. And yes, radon in significant quantities is a serious cancer risk. So… Are are your granite countertops going to give you cancer? It’s highly unlikely, as most emit radon in minute amounts, amounts far lower than the soil beneath your home.

Dr. David J. Brenner, director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University in New York, told the New York Times in an article that published on July 24, 2008, that the cancer risk from granite countertops, even those emitting radiation above background levels, is “on the order of one in a million.” You’re likelier to be struck by lighting, he added.

Dr. Brenner does add, though, “If you can choose another counter that doesn’t elevate your risk, however slightly, why wouldn’t you?” I think that question may be most appropriately asked by those with compromised immune systems, especially by smokers and cancer survivors. There are numerous benefits to owning granite countertops that I’ll get into shortly.


*RECOMMENDED PRECAUTIONS*

If your health has been compromised or you’re pregnant, and now becoming concerned about the radon levels in your granite countertops, this one-page fact sheet from a company that specializes in radon detection may be helpful to you, as can its link to the Environmental Protection Agency’s Consumer's Guide to Radon Reduction. A professional tester can either ease your concerns or accurately inform you as to the potential risk presented by your top.

The New York Times cites exotic stones that are just entering the U.S. market as potentially having higher radon content than the more familiar Uba Tubas and Giallo Venezianos that have been gracing so many American homes for years. Samples of the most widely-used granite patterns have already been tested and found within safe levels. A frank discussion with your granite supplier and kitchen designer would be a good idea if you’re considering an exotic granite.

In the meantime, for a healthy person, the risks associated with normal, daily American life – like car accidents, diabetes and heart disease – are far likelier to occur in your lifetime, and are totally unaffected by your countertop material. I still feel comfortable presenting it to my kitchen and bath design clientele.


*BEYOND THE HYPE*

Granite has been used as a building material for thousands of years. This might make you wonder why the long-known presence of radon in its composition is creating an uproar now. The simple answer is competitive pressure. Even the sometimes sensationalistic Fox News reported this sober business news item: “The EPA issued its new statements late Friday, following media reports citing junk science and inconsistent testing results, that created public concern about granite countertops as a source of radon gas.”

The New York Times piece mentioned above also notes: “Allegations that granite countertops may emit dangerous levels of radon and radiation have been raised periodically over the past decade, mostly by makers and distributors of competing countertop materials.” Since these manufacturers are presenting one of granite’s potential negatives, let me present what I feel to be a more accurate and complete list, along with granite's many positive attributes.


*GRANITE'S NEGATIVES
*
Granite is a natural, porous stone. Its porosity leaves it vulnerable to bacterial penetration and staining. You must keep it sealed.

Sealing adds an extra expense and chore to your life, albeit not a very expensive or time-consuming one. Home centers carry in-stock sealants, but acidic foods and liquids can eat through them if left standing on the countertops for long periods.

Granite can be costly. Not everyone can afford this material, even though wider availability has made it less expensive than in decades past.

Granite is extremely hard, so placing a glass on it as you would on a laminate or Corian-style countertop can crack the glass.

Granite can crack if subjected to excessive heat in the same spot repeatedly. Most people believe you can put a hot pot directly on it. You can if you must in an emergency situation, but you shouldn’t as a regular habit. Use a trivet to protect your tops.

Because granite is extremely hard, many people believe it’s OK to cut directly on it. I wouldn’t recommend this practice either. Granite is both porous, as mentioned above, so you can stain your tops or risk bacterial penetration, and so hard that it will dull your knives.

As granite is a product of Mother Nature, it does not come with a factory warranty. Some countertop suppliers – aka fabricators – offer a sealant warranty with stronger coatings, but that’s only as lasting as the economic health of the companies offering them.

Granite is rarely repairable. If it’s misused, you will almost certainly have to replace that entire section from a new slab.


*GRANITE'S POSITIVES *

Granite is one of the most beautiful materials available for your home and will enhance its style.

Each slab of granite is unique. Some are so distinctive that they add a personalized artistic statement to your room.

Granite is one of the most heat-resistant countertops available.

Granite is one of the most scratch-resistant countertops available; only a diamond or another piece of granite or quartz will cut it.

Granite countertops have a high perceived value, which can potentially contribute to an increase in your home’s market value.

Granite creates among the most durable countertop options available today. Only quartz rivals its hardness and longevity.


*LAST WORDS*

If you decide to choose granite for your home, please consider the following: Granite will only look as good as the fabricator’s skill and attention to detail allow. An unskilled installer will create seams that are highly visible, tops that are uneven from one section to another, poor pattern matching at turns, sloppy installation of undermount sinks, unsightly gaps and poor edging. So please think twice before you call the company posting street signs for $9.99 granite. You do get what you pay for in this area and talented trades truly earn their fees and referrals.


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## Al Gerhart

Nice post Johnny, we aren't that far apart. My view is that all materials can make a decent countertop, IF the product is not over sold.

Graniquartz, that was a mess wasn't it? Add Jetta, WilsonArt blue glue, and you have the reasons for quite a few shops going down.

Guys like Brenner are relying on outdated info. No one would have belived that companies were importing "source" grade granite for countertops. They know better now. His last statement about raising risks for little return is the point of the entire matter, pick a safer product, and some granites are low radiation level.

Besides, no one really knows what is out there installed already. We know that the Lynn Sugarman case had a large settlement paid to the previous homeowner/builder. Lung cancer, non smoker, two years and two months exposure to a God awful amount of Radon coming from that countertop. The Houston story also had a cluster of cancers present, two cats developed cancer and had to be put down, the previous homeowner developed a brain tumor, and her maid developed a fatal cancer. Sure cancer happens, but this is a large group accompainied by both high Radon levels in the kitchen and high radiation levels.

So far it has been our little group out there prospecting, Stan Liebert out of New York, and a handful of others checking countertops. Of course the MIA (granite trade association) has tested a few stone and assures us that there are no hot stones out there, and Dr. Steck of St. Johns University has tested a few hundred slabs (and yeah, he is finding some hot ones). Finding slabs in slab yards at 150 times background radiation levels is no trick, even 100 times background can be found in most higher end slab yards, so there are plenty of hot countertops already installed.

We still sell granite, but we show them everything about it and let the customer decide what to do. 99% drop the granite and pick another material. People aren't stupid, any risk is too much if it can be avoided. Three in 10,000 excess cancers per year of exposure is not small if you are one of the three.

Another issue that is not well publicized is the heavy metal content of granite, and there are some really toxic stuff present in some of the stones. Arsenic, Cadium, Chromium, Berylium (horribly toxic, legal limit for the dust would be a speck the size of a pencil point in a football field high room that is six feet tall), polonium, lots of lead, Selenium, really just about any toxic heavy metal know to man can be found in natural stone sold for countertops. No one tests the stuff, people don't know to consider looking at it when health problems mysteriously show up. That is changing.

Using car accidents, diabetes and heart disease as example to minimize the risk is not a good tactic. We all are aware of those risks, we buckle our seat belts, buy safer cars when we can afford them, entire industries are aimed at making driving safer. Same thing with diabetes and heart disease, people have a chance to avoid it in most cases. An informed decision can be made. Not so with granite.

Incidently, Health Phsyicists tell us that the largest danger of a granite countertop might turn out to be the uranium leaching during food preparation and cleaning. Uranium is very toxic when ingested.

I liked the granite problem list. Too much money present and no one watching over the industry. Check out our forum, we have some cases where consumers were ripped off during their grainite purchase. I have two favorites, the fabricator that told the lady her granite didn't match because one slab was colder than the other, that in a few days it would warm up and match. The other was the fabricator that used acid to attempt to remove a scratch. Acid everywhere, coffe can etches where he set his can of acid while working, ruined the stainless steel sink, some of the cabinets, floor, appliances. Liked to ran the homeowner out of the home from choking.

Your radon link, Radon.com? That is Air Check, old BV. He is for some strange reason attempting to minimize the testing effort. Advocates setting meters at 80 uR/hr (13 times background radiation levels), most people would not want that high of a radiation level in their home. I know those guys, I sent BV some hot granite early on when he was claiming there were no hot granite slabs.

On the co efficient of expansion issues, look back at WilsonArt. It didn't happen right away, it took years for the issues to show up. That train has left the station, just hasn't arrived yet, but it will.

Good to see someone with a sense of humor as well as some honesty selling countertops. Keep looking into the Radon issue, it keeps getting bigger.


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## Johnny Larue

*Al G*

Hi Al. You raise some good points!! I actually sold my G.T. countertop business, thank the lord. We did quite well, and own another biz we are expanding. Wife's health was another reason to sell. She was working the other biz, and I had G.T.

I had my home stone tested a year ago and the levels were very low. But I hear you loud and clear on the other issues. I like the look of Cambria, and some Silestone colors are nice. But that G.T. just never looks right on a counter. Thick and ugly. imo. I'd almost rather have Corian:no:

But the best edges, and looks go to the real thick engineered quartz. G.T. has quartz, but just the amt. any granite would have. Also G.T. dirty little secret is that it has base white rock stone, (i forget the name) on the backside. So they dont' even give you a true 1/4 inch of the granite color you see. The stone is unpolished, and their are gaps. look like someone through gravel on the back of your granite. It cuts costs, and helps the epoxy adhere. So it isn't really 95% granite. The top 1/8 inch is, but not the back of the sheets.

For folks reading this, granite is made up of Quartz, Mica, and Feldspar. As I understand it more quartz is in Cambria and Silestone than G.T.

Just an opinion, but people like the fancy edges you get with Thick slab granite, or Silestone. But a G.T. undermount sink is a joke. They take the sinks paper template, and make a wood one. Then they run a router with a diamond bit around the template.

Sounds ok, but the stone is a 1/4 inch thick. So it has to rest on the sink lip, or it would chip because nothing is behind it. And you have to caulk it. They caulk it right away, or tint it, so you don't see the white stone all sitting on your sink. Your color on the top, and ugly white stone on the bottom. This looks horrible, two tone look) with dark granite colors. They use markers or tint to hide this. them cover it will Clear caulk and no one will know. And markers are used to hide flaws on the deck. Cover a odd color stone, etc.

A true undermount counter doesn't rest on the sink. It looks like you can't see the sinks edge, & just wipe everything in. No visible sink lip. No caulk to maintain, or hold dirt,etc. 

Al if get a chance, look at a closeup picture of their undermount, or go to a showroom. When the caulk fails, the formica counter will start to swell.

And the do SO much dry cutting, and polishing with Festool's, like some Corian guys use. Osha could bust almost every shop.

Well stay on top of the radon issue!!!:thumbsup:


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## Al Gerhart

Johnny Larue said:


> Hi Al. You raise some good points!! I actually sold my G.T. countertop business, thank the lord. We did quite well, and own another biz we are expanding. Wife's health was another reason to sell. She was working the other biz, and I had G.T.
> 
> I had my home stone tested a year ago and the levels were very low. But I hear you loud and clear on the other issues. I like the look of Cambria, and some Silestone colors are nice. But that G.T. just never looks right on a counter. Thick and ugly. imo. I'd almost rather have Corian:no:
> 
> But the best edges, and looks go to the real thick engineered quartz. G.T. has quartz, but just the amt. any granite would have. Also G.T. dirty little secret is that it has base white rock stone, (i forget the name) on the backside. So they dont' even give you a true 1/4 inch of the granite color you see. The stone is unpolished, and their are gaps. look like someone through gravel on the back of your granite. It cuts costs, and helps the epoxy adhere. So it isn't really 95% granite. The top 1/8 inch is, but not the back of the sheets.
> 
> For folks reading this, granite is made up of Quartz, Mica, and Feldspar. As I understand it more quartz is in Cambria and Silestone than G.T.
> 
> Just an opinion, but people like the fancy edges you get with Thick slab granite, or Silestone. But a G.T. undermount sink is a joke. They take the sinks paper template, and make a wood one. Then they run a router with a diamond bit around the template.
> 
> Sounds ok, but the stone is a 1/4 inch thick. So it has to rest on the sink lip, or it would chip because nothing is behind it. And you have to caulk it. They caulk it right away, or tint it, so you don't see the white stone all sitting on your sink. Your color on the top, and ugly white stone on the bottom. This looks horrible, two tone look) with dark granite colors. They use markers or tint to hide this. them cover it will Clear caulk and no one will know. And markers are used to hide flaws on the deck. Cover a odd color stone, etc.
> 
> A true undermount counter doesn't rest on the sink. It looks like you can't see the sinks edge, & just wipe everything in. No visible sink lip. No caulk to maintain, or hold dirt,etc.
> 
> Al if get a chance, look at a closeup picture of their undermount, or go to a showroom. When the caulk fails, the formica counter will start to swell.
> 
> And the do SO much dry cutting, and polishing with Festool's, like some Corian guys use. Osha could bust almost every shop.
> 
> Well stay on top of the radon issue!!!:thumbsup:


 
I liked your choice of words, "when the caulk fails" not "if". I tell customers that I hold my breath on every undermount sink we install and we use the heavy sink setting rails! The stainless steel undermounts are just too floppy, you don't have enough room in the back to support it properly once the rodding and faucets are in place. 

I was telling one prospective customer this, and she started laughing. Her mom had just bought granite. Three weeks later hubby took a plunger to a clogged sink during Thanksgiving dinner. Sink, garbage disposer, and about twenty gallons of dirty, greasy water hit the bottom of the sink cabinet and gushed out the cabinet doors.

Good lord, they are dry cutting and dry polishing the granite transformation material???? That is dangerous. We had an industrial hygienist in from California in October do some testing for us. Turns out Quartz has far, far, higher levels of silica in the dust. It has to be wet cut for worker safety!


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## Johnny Larue

*Al Gerhart*

Hi Al,

Yeah it's not to smart. They cut "some of it wet" with a wet tile saw built along a 10 ft. aluminum rail. This cuts the aprons, and beveled edge strips. And the beveled edge is wavy, as you can imagine. Try to clamp a 1/4 inch of material between an apron, and deck! They use lots of tinted epoxy, and masking tape till it dries. Then after stoning by hand, and polishing dry with a Festool, it looks round. And wavy, because the stone chips slightly, and epoxy fill the voids. And it' hard to hold those 45 degree angles together well, especially on a long run.. Decks, etc dry cut with festool, on a foam board also make for a chpped, and wavy cut. Blade gets hot. Any work on the job site is dry cut. And their is a lot. Or they use a Grinder with a diamond blade. No vaccum system like the Festool. Ed Handstoned first, then dry polished with the festool. Face right next to the dust there!!

And that undermount is so ugly compared to slab, or Silestone. If you saw it you would laugh. It shows every person, with a brain, you have cheap thin counters. I always told them to go top mount. If you dent the sink, want to change the color later, etc. it's easy. And I have seen a few rusty stainless sinks that were only 2 years old. They were probably $40 cheapies that were "free" with the countertop. I knew a countertop guy who bought in bulk, $24 sinks!! They looked ok, but were thin and junky.

If you really want an undermount, I would tell them to buy 2 sinks, and put one in the attic! If they weren't buying a $1,300 sink of course! You can replace it if you drop something in it, etc. And I showed them a closeup picture, of a G.T. undermount, that usually stopped them from doing it. I lost a bit of profit, but I slept well every night!


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## jasonrit

I am currently involved with a lawsuit with Granite Transformations in Austin, TX (Judy Hays, owner) due to a botched job. Their behavior dumbfounded me.

1. Granite Transformations broke the connector on my stove and I became very ill and missed work from the resulting gas leak. 

2. Granite Transformations mis-centered the faucet hole by a full inch. Afterward, they dumped the old sink in my front yard instead of hauling it away.

3. My kitchen flooded a few days after the install since they didn't hook it back up correctly.

These issues speak for themselves, please make your own judgment call. The first time I tried to report these issues, Judy Hays used profanity and disconnected the call and tried to report me to credit. My lawyer responded.

In terms of the *actual quality of the product*, I'm not thrilled with it. I believe I have some pictures of the install if anyone wants to see them. The faucet looks so bad off to the left one inch. They also claimed the countertop can withstand 350 degrees F. It cannot, as I found out the hard way (it warped when I tried to set a pot of cooling boiled water on it. As you know, boiling water is only 212 degrees, so I can definitely vouch for the misrepresentation in the spec.

I hope this information was useful.


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## pyro530

Well, first off I will say I am in the countertop business myself. :thumbsup:

I think the product is good but it all depends on what you want to do, and how much work you want to put into your remodel. If you just want a quick countertop improvement I say go for it. It is a good looking product.
However I will say there is no replacement for doing an actual Granite countertop if that is the look you like.

Go price some local granite(or other materials) fabricators. I am sure you will find some of them are in the same price range. The one thing you will get with natural granite and not with granite transformations is the natural look and flow of real stone.

I know we have come in cheaper than them, on a couple bids. And we do 3cm full slab countertops.


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## Al Gerhart

Jason,

I'd like to see the pictures if you can post them. If you have time, how about posting the pictures and the details at my countertop forum? Consumers need to hear these stories. forum.solidsurfacealliance.org

Have you tried Angies list? Post the details there, Angies list will send the Hay's a notice and ask for some sort of response. Angies list is becoming very well known, I used to be a member, need to rejoin.

Offset faucet, that would be reason enough for a redo at their cost. If they were dumb enough to have their installers hook up the gas line and water, they need to be sued for their sloppy work. We won't touch a hookup, will give them a list of plumbers if they want, cause we aren't licensed and our insurance won't cover any problems like you ran into.


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## Al Gerhart

*Nothing to add to the arguement, so the personal attacks start, eh?*

Rippy Skippy, rather than use personal attacks in an effort to tear down others, how about you just address the points I and Johnny brought up? Speak to the facts rippyskippy. Looks like your post is the most transparent one here.
Why is Granite Transformations relying on misinformatiion on tear out costs to market their product?
I mentioned the co efficient of expansion issues, then a consumer verified the warpage caused by heat. Why not address this since you are wearing your "expert" coat?
How about speaking to the fact that the product costs more than granite, solid surface, and solid surface? Shouldn't a thin veneer be a lot cheaper? I could see a potential market for the product bewteen laminate prices and 2 cm stone or quartz, but it costs more. Where is the bargin here?
And jeez, I and the others bring up the risks of countertop installers trying to hook up plumbing, and along comes a consumer with a horror story confirming the risk. Are a few hundred bucks profit worth ruining someone's home and cabinets?
What happened to Johnny's posts? Looks like two or three are missing. This guy was a former Granite Transformations francise owner but he was telling it like it is. 
And my site is a very technical orientated site, few will join in when they have little to add. One of the regulars is an Industrial Hygienist, with a MPH. We get around 1,000 unique visitors per week, including some of the researchers working on the granite industry. The blog and main website get around 1,500 unique visitors a week as well. People come to the sites for information, not to argue. I gather info, such as this excellent thread, and link to them from my site. I just love to see the frauds and dishonest companies get what is coming to them.
How about it Skippy Rippy? Care to address the arguements instead of slinging mud? Or is your post an indication that you can't refute the facts?


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## Johnny Larue

*Al G*

Due to legal reasons, I had to pull my posts. G.T. was not happy with me telling the truth, as a former owner. Good and bad.


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## Al Gerhart

Well, that speaks louder than any words they could have used.

While as a business owner I understand the possiblity of the internet being misused by the occasional irrational or even blackmailing consumer, the benefits from the dishonest companies being called out in public far outweigh any risks. I don't know how many times I've heard people tell me that they just didn't know enough to check out their fabricator before laying down their cash. They were shopping for a countertop like it was a commodity product like a TV set, pick the lowest price from the guy that has it in stock for immediate delivery.

Heck, I even post stories and pictures where a solid surface company screwed over a consumer. It is all bad for business. 

Granite Transformations would be better served by addressing their products failings, not to mention their dry cutting practices. California recently passed a law requiring wet cutting and polishing. If their state OSHA drives by your shop and can see no water being used, automatic fine, no testing to prove a hazard exists, just some huge honking fines into the tens of thousands of dollars.

Times have changed. If your company deals honestly, you will prosper. Low bidders that aren't willing to offer comparable quality as the more expensive shop are going to find that they will earn a bad reputation very quickly.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.:no:


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## martiash

*martiash*

Seems like this has deteriorated to a nasty conflict between contractors. I am looking to replace my 50+year old tile countertops and stumbled on this helpful website. Don't really like the shiny look of granite, can't afford my real choice (soapstone) so am looking at other options. Know the risks of granite so that is another reason NOT to choose it, and was seriously thinking about GT, haven't visited the Houston showroom yet. Demo on an old tile countertop WOULD be messy so that is a consideration, but after all this negative information I may just look at getting a quote on new ceramic tile. Its almost indestructible and I know how to work with it. I have to agree that anything "new" like GT I do wonder about it's lifetime hazards that have yet to be discovered...darn, though, I was thinking I had finally found the right material!:wink:


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## Johnny Larue

*RippySkippy*

I owned a G.T. franchise. Sold it at a nice profit, had numerous good posts I had to pull from here, due to G.T.'s Franchise agreement.

After consulting with my attorney, I am allowed to post limited opinions on appearance, technical issues, etc. regarding the product.

Al is referring to the undermount sink. If you have seen it, it looks odd, and ugly to most.(But if you like it cool by me)The product is thin, so the sink supports the countertops edge. So you will see the sinks lip exposed, which is odd to most people.

 A true undermount the sink lip is unseen, under the granite. Hope this makes sense. If not ask to see a picture of one, or in person.

 And you have to caulk it as well, so it's a crud catcher. The backside of the 1/4 inch G.T. Slab is a white unpolished hard rock. I forget the type. Helps the epoxy bond to the countertop.

 So the white stone will appear if it's cut on an edge without a piece glued to it. When you look at the sink, the edge will look 2 tone, until it is covered with tint, and silicone caulk. If you look at a small sample, especially a dark color, you'll see it.

I told people if they wanted undermounts, this is what it looks like, and you may want to buy 2 sinks. if this one is dented, etc. you won't find one to fit the exact cutout made. I then sad save your money, and get a top mount sink. I can sell you a nicer sink, for the cost of the undermounting work.

And the edges and seams depend on the installer, just like granite. But most G.T. deck seams I see are nice. The deck to apron seam can be noticeable, but usually to picky people. Once some people see it, they always notice it. I felt bad for them. 

But G.T. decks are cut dry. The aprons are cut with a modified wet tile saw. So the product gets tiny chips, because it is made of small stones, when it is cut. They glue and tint the epoxy to join them together. And a straight edge will look nice.

But a long run of a beveled edge can, at times, look wavy. They glue a small separte piece in between the apron and deck. It's hard to be a perfect bevel because the stone chips. So it is dry polished with fine sanpaper. The bevel loses it's crisp edge when finished.

Engineered stone and granite have the advantage of all wet cutting, and polishing. The edges cost more, but the look great. unlimited edges on counters and splashes. And they use a CNC Machine so it's very accurately cut. Of course you can have problems with this as well, just pointing out differences. 

Also customers with 1.5 inch formica tops, and rolled 1.5 inch edges were upset. When finished the backsplas apron was over 2 inches wide, if the wall were wavy 2.5 inches in some spots. Very clunky looking. Silestone, or granite will glue up a 3/4 or a bit bigger splash that just follows the wall. it doesn't have to be scribed to the wall, or cut extra thick to cover up the walls waviness. And the splashes edges were dull to some, compared with other products out there.

In my area the resale is better with granite and engineered stone, than G.T. Might be different in your area.

We had lots of happy customers like you so enjoy your top. It's really a different top than, granite, silestone, corian, etc. so it's not for everyone.

My mom and sister have it and like it. So I am not anti G.T. at all. Once istalled, and the epoxy dries, you can bang it with a hammer. I used to do that in my showroom. My wife's health isn't good so I now run the biz she was working, and I sold mine to an employee.

 But it's like vinyl siding. Some prefer cedar with maintenance, and some prefer vinyl no maintenance. 
For some people G.T. is perfect. And I like it for tub surrounds, and showers. We did over a ladies shower that had ugly tile, but it was only a year old house she bought. It was large, with steam, and body spray outlets, benches. 
We put in about 25 pieces, and it was less money than retiling. Plus no more grout lines.


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## RippySkippy

Johnny,

You make many valid points. I think the bottom line is for the customer to do their due diligence when researching the different options. Go into the project with their eyes wide open...and for gods sake, don't sign on the dotted line until completely comfortable the contract.

We have the undermount sink...and we are quite happy with it. I've never had an undermount so just the fact that we didn't have the stink'n edge to deal with was a bonus on many levels. While I'm not happy with the caulk...it seems to be holding up well. If I have to replace the caulk in a few years...I'm OK with that. Our rounded over profile seems to have consistent color though out the profile, maybe it's more prevalent on some colors than others. Ours is the mostly black granite, some whitish flecks and brown binder....don't recall the name of it right now. 

We can take your siding example a step further...there's some of us that like fiber cement...arguably less maintenance than other types...but more flexibility over the life of the product. Just an example that one type/style isn't for all.

You're right the product isn't for everyone, but then again, there's hardly one out there that is. Thank goodness we have many choices available to us. It will always be the customers responsibility to do their research, and find what works for them. It's of little value to anyone for one to continually step up on a soapbox because he/she doesn't like the product. Speak the peace and move on. I don't care if one is purchasing dominoes, instilling fear of a product is not the way to make any product look better than the other. Lay all the facts out here and go with it. If the contractual agreement is not fulfilled...THEN take step two.

Johnny, best of wishes you and your wife in 2009!


----------



## Johnny Larue

*RippySkippy*

Thanks for the kind words!

My wife wanted me to post on this board tp help people make a decision on G.T. concerns, or technical type issues.
I am glad you like your countertops.

From an owner's point of view, the undermount look, edges, etc made it a "HARD" sale to somone who has had granite before, or their sister, etc. we just couldn't compete.

it was like trying to sell vinyl siding, door to door, in a 10 Million Dollar neighborhood of all brick homes. 

The look on their faces, (some people called them "Granite Snobs") was like we were trying to sell them pink formica. It was priceless!

But this should not prevent someone from owning G.T. counters. Just go to the showroom, or someone's house and look "closely" at it. Along with all of your choices.


But people who never had granite, or just liked the colors, and were into the no maintenance, etc. and the product sales were easy to make to them. 

The G.T. Sheets *in my personal opinion*, should all be wet cut, like my shop was, for employee health concerns. I can't say more about that, though OSHA would.


And I think Al G brings up good radon points for people to consider. I think he runs a tight ship like I did. So when you hear about install issues, with any co. including G.T., it ticks people like us off.

Happy New year to you as well. And thanks for the kind thoughts on my wife's health.


----------



## RippySkippy

"Granite Snobs" that's great! I would of loved to see that....and it does make sense though. And Johnny, it's really great to have someone like your self that's been on the other side share what you can.

I agree that Al has valid points. And from little I understand about the radon issue slab shops might have a nee to get a bit concerned. 

The thing that's crazy though is that here in the Midwest...I'd bet most homes with a basement and with out a radon mitigation system, would have higher levels than recommended buy the Gov't. So when there's mention that the levels being reported in the GT evaluation cause the sky itself to fall...well that's a bit much. Further more to then imply that ALL granite products by their definition are being lumped into this big bag of glowing radiation poising...well that's were we need to put the brakes on and say just a minute...let's take a step back and evaluate this a bit closer.

I'll never claim to know the in and outs of the business...neither do I want to. But I do know that rational thinking and sound decision making will trump decisions made out of fear, every time.

Gotta run...will be back next year! Have a great one! Be safe.


----------



## Johnny Larue

*Rippy Skippy*

Every home sold here is radon tested. And then mitigated if the levels are too high. Certain slabs have more radon, than others. I think(?) in a few years it may be an issue, like asbestos, etc.

Have a good one.


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## Al Gerhart

Rippy Skippy,

I would think that Johnny's post answered your assumptions that his post was somehow untruthful.

Play with word definitions all you want, a bargain for most consumers means they got value for their hard earned dollars. If a company depends un uninformed consumers, that in itself proves their product is lacking in appeal, as Johnny provided ample examples of.

Now surely you aren't assuming that anyone intended to claim a 50% general failure rate, to do so setting up the old strawman arguement. What I asked was if you were comfortable with 50% of the posters in this thread being quite unsatisfied.

I've never seen anyone use the (snip) thing before. One would think it unethical to (snip) out segments of a complete sentence. Might be fun though, let's do some of your sentences.

"Granite Transformations (snip) listless plastic."

It is you know, part "plastic", just like all quartz products, even the majority of stones now are resined front and back.

"We were (snip) forced to settle on a color."

Hey, this is fun!

"(snip) GT is responsible for uniformed customers (snip).

If the shill shoe fits you, wear it. Like you said, anyone can type whatever. You do seem too motivated to be a consumer. If you chose to apply the name to yourself, I won't argue with you. On the other hand, if you aren't connected, understand why others would wonder why you have a dog in the fight. 

".I have no representation of the Granite Transformations company, and will not, EVER have to retract my post."

I take it you are taking Johnny's retraction as some how proof of untruthfullness? I took it that he was threatened in some manner. I can see why he had to get legal advice. Again that in itself gives me great pause, choking off the discussion of their product.

Thanks for posting that link, I was too lazy to do it. Funny though, your PDF was the same as mine, look down to the Summary Analytical Report where it shows Grigio Winternute three times, .2 pCi/L, .4 pCi/L, and another .4 pCi/L, pretty much proving what I said was true.

The report also showed the CPM data, some colors are double background radiation.
Now please explain how you posting something that proves my point somehow is evidence to the contrary? Did you take the time to read it before you posted? Ifyou don't understand it, I understand that, the topic can be horribly complex and the units used confusing.

And Mr. Rippy, I am quite passionate about what I write because I know I am right. I have done the research and developed contacts with the small but very helpful Radon industry. Sitting back and casting aspersions without providing any specific proof hardly allows you to judge anyone, much less claim they made false accusations. Now, on that point, I am calling you out. Provide proof that I posted one single false sentence.

Now here is where you are missing the point of my posts.

"I think the bottom line is for the customer to do their due diligence when researching the different options."

You must believe that, yet you get offended when others bring up info that you apparently don't want consumers to read. You seem to be more about defending your purchase of the product.

"It's of little value to anyone for one to continually step up on a soapbox because he/she doesn't like the product. Speak the peace and move on."

So this is your advice to others, yet you yourself don't follow it? The granite guys finaly learned that the more they argued, the more negative info was posted and the more people read the threads.

"I agree that Al has valid points. And from little I understand about the radon issue slab shops might have a nee to get a bit concerned."

Thank you Mr.Rippy.

I'm going to take that as a good place to stop wacking on you. Too often the criticizm is all about destroying the credibility of the poster. Your point of homes already having ten times that amount is also a valid point, something we are very aware of, with the point being "Why add more if it can easily be avoided?". If Granite Transformations tested, why not look into lowering the Radon on those colors they are having problems with?

And Rippy, no one has ever said All granite are the problem. That is a commly used straw man arguement that can never be backed up when you challenge the source.

We received a new Radon meter yesterday on loand from Femto Tech, a $4,500 meter, the best there is. Our first run showed the first 18 hour average at 26.5 pCi/L. The EPA says that amount is like smoking 3.31 packs a day. Our previous meter, a much older model (but recently calibrated) was shown to be reading about 20% low. 

Now the scary part from my viewpoint, as a granite fabricator. The first batch of granite (18 square feet) was fairly hot, but the second batch added (another 18 square feet), we expected maybe 20% increase because this batch was quite low level. Instead the Radon level went up 150%.

Not only baffling, it means we can't screen slabs using a radiation meter. Very troubling cause it further limits the stones I can sell with an expectation of safety.

Granite snobs indeed, there are some that will look down their nose if you dare to bring up anything negative. I've talked to consumers with known high radiation stones that refuse to get them tested. That is completely insane and irresponsible no matter what the investment was.


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## Johnny Larue

*Al G.*

In almost all Franchise Agreements you have a 1, or 2 year period where you can't say too much. Trade secrets, negative comments, etc. It's pretty standard even with the other Biz we own. So they were within their rights to ask me to edit my posts. :wink:I just deleted and started over.

I like this type of forum, but I don't take anything said personally. If they disagree with what I say, that's OK. Just as long as it doesn't get personal.

I just have inside technical, and other experience with G.T. I could share. And help people decide. Radon is the next asbestos issue, (I think) so choose carefully.

And Al you can order a sample of G.T. material from the closest office to you. Even if it's 300 miles away. Tell them you are curious about the product. They usually send out an offcut sample for free. If they don't because they don't serve you area, offer to send them a couple of bucks, $2.00-$3.00. They will send a 3 inch by 4 inch piece you can look at, if you haven't all ready. And test it, etc.

The stone has a lower quartz content then Cambria, Silestone, etc. They just take, for example Black Galaxy Scrap, and sometimes large stone, and grind it up, and mix in the polymer. So the Polymer holds most of the Radon in,(I think you would know more than I on that issue) but the sheets do have tiny gaps, or pinholes when looked at closely, or magnified. So they could outgas radon.

The back of a sheet's stone is unpolished "white stone". It may be granite, but I don't think so. The top "surface", is 92%-95% granite, but the entire sheets, overall granite content is lower. Hope that makes sense to you. If you ever get a sample, you'll see what I mean. 

You may have to call on the back stone content, as they might not like me right now!

And I wish NO ill will on them, and a few shops do wet cut, but I am surprised NO ONE, not even a former employee, or competitor, like AL, has called OSHA on them. 

These employees are working in a Dusty area, without face masks, they are "supposed" to wear. And get a medical check up yearly so they can wear a respirator without taxing their heart, and other systems, etc.

Maybe they are following the CA rules in your area. I hope they all are now. It's like buying a product from a co. that doesn't have healthy work conditions. You can't easily check out a lightbulb factory, for example. But ANY product you buy, I would go and see the back of the shop. Is it neat, and safe, etc. Now it won't be Hospital clean, but it should be a safe place for YOU to spend 40 hours a week in.

Happy New Year Al to you, and your family! I don't feel you are trying to scare people, just educate them, and let them decide, like I am. 

Heck, put that speckled paint, and brush poly over your old formica. Guys do it, and when done right, at a glance, it looks like granite! I forget the name of that co. It's your house, just know the facts, good and bad about each and decide.


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## Al Gerhart

Hi Johnny,

We have a local franchise, they had a booth right behind ours at one of the local Home & Garden shows for couple of years. You wouldn't believe their marketing spiel. I overheard the owner telling consumers that they would save thousands by not tearing out the old countertop.

People would have their bags of goodies from the show, brochures, quotes, so when I saw a Granite Transformation brochure, I'd ask if they got a quote. Even mid level solid surface would be a bit over half the bid, and one or two consumers let the franchise know about it.

On the Radon emanation, not many coatings, even polymers, will hold it in. Remember we are talking about an element, an atom, not a large gas molecule. The Israelis have done some work on an anti radon coating, but pretty much everything tried has not been very effective, or at least anything that would serve as finished surface. I had an email group running for three or four months, Radon researchers, a uranium geologist, a radio chemist, Industrial Hygienist, and several Radon lab owners. Turns out few Radon experts had ever spoken with an uranium geologist before, nor a radio chemist. One group had been studying how to get rid of Radon, the others regularly measured it to survey uranium deposits or quanitfy samples. 

Where it was once thought in the Radon world that most Radon wouldn't make it out of a stone, the uranium geologist proved the Radon can travel up to six feet through solid rock.

Calling OSHA, whew.... Not on my worste enemy. Those guys can be a shops worst nightmare even if you run a nice clean shop. Their worst fines are for office stuff, record keeping, and stuff like the medical exams on a regular basis. Those fines can cost you tens of thousands of dollars.

California's new law covers quartz as well. It wasn't in the actual law, but we had an Industrial Hygienist firm working with us on granite dust surveys. We surveyed eight shops, including mine, in Texas and Oklahoma. Small shops, large shops, wet cutting shops, dry cutting shops. After the test samples got back from the lab, the I.H. firm approached the CALOSHA on the quartz issue. They thought of brick, but no one thought about Quartz products. After a few days, they decided it would be covered under the new law anyway, same silica problem, so they think they have a handle on it.

So for California, if an OSHA inspector drives by your shop and sees any dust floating in the air, you are fined heavily. No need to test anything, if they see dust, you are guilty of violating the law. Wet cutting is the only allowed method from now on.

We had one shop in our survey come in over the level even though they were a 100% wet shop. They even had spray booths set up for each worker, with a water curtain wall in the back that supposedly caught all the dust. It wasn't working, not enough air flow I guess.

Hey, nothing wrong with painting laminate! If the lady is happy, so be it. Definetly a low maintance kind of lady.:thumbup:


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## Carol Emmarie

Mr. Gerhart,
You certainly seem to be an honest, hardworking granite fabricator. It sure would be nice if you worked in Southern California (do you?)

I just read that the most important step in choosing the best granite for a countertop is **Choosing The Right Fabricator**. The article stated that a mediocre/poor fabricator can ruin perfectly good granite, whereas an excellent fabricator can make even a mediocre/weak granite slab work just fine for the customer. 

Wow - I'm completely ignorant! Could you enlighten me as how to find an excellent granite countertop fabricator? (How to interview them, how to tell if they are communicating honestly, which steps in the planning / granite-selection / installation process a good fabricator should do for a customer...) 

Many thanks 
from Miss Carol


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## Al Gerhart

*Choosing a fabricator*

Hi Carol,

I am in Oklahoma, a bit far for a job I'm afraid.

You got some good advice from that article, finding a good fabricator is crucial. Too many look for the low bidder, which works fine for a TV or new car, not so good for a handmade product.

Like Johnny said, their shop should be clean, shows they care about the little things. Above all ask them about the radiation/Radon issue, if they deny the issues are valid, you've just learned that they are either ignorant or dishonest. Joing Angies list to see if anyone has had good or bad experiences, forget the BBB, they are near worthless.

Above all, check your local courthouse for any actions, liens they filed, cases against them, check under the business owners name as well as the company name.

Just be careful, a higher price is no guarantee of good quailty. Watch for the huge shops as well, many are going under these days because of their huge debt load for all the fancy machinery. If you can find a small shop that has been around five or six years, that dresses seams and top polished seams, that would be a good start.

Thanks for the nice comments,

Al


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## SPlemel

*Granite Transformations*

We had our kitchen done last month. It is beautiful and we look forward to no upkeep. The work was done very well with no tearing up of old countertops. It looks just like real 100% granite but not the mess. I would recommend this to everyone.


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## el pic

jasonrit said:


> I am currently involved with a lawsuit with Granite Transformations in Austin, TX (Judy Hays, owner) due to a botched job. Their behavior dumbfounded me...
> 
> The first time I tried to report these issues, Judy Hays used profanity and disconnected the call and tried to report me to credit. My lawyer responded...
> 
> In terms of the *actual quality of the product*, I'm not thrilled with it. ...
> I hope this information was useful.


I have 3 jobs done with Austin Granite Transformations {Kitchen, Bath, Shower, Vanity} and your statement about Judy's "interpersonal skills" is quite true. I may have been their early most client {2005, 2006, 2007}.
I think the product is good but the service is the low spot when compared to the product itself. I am pleased with the work but it took much effort supervising them.
You got to watch and police these guys.
A quailty job takes more time than Judy allows the installers and that is prob most of your problem besides she being a ****.
The people who work for her are often frank and complain behind her back - one installer was very good but has left.
She is the train wreck and explodes often.
She hung up on me with the last job.
Good luck with your law suit. 
Has any one really tested this product for radon ???
The GT website says it tests at under 1.3 with under 4 being safe.
Please post results of your tests.


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## Al Gerhart

Could you post a link to that 1.3 pCi/L Radon result on Granite Transformations? I thought the highest was .4 pCi/L, must have missed something.

If it was 1.3 pCi/L, that is far from "safe". The EPA calculates that 1.3 pCi/L is the national average for home Radon levels and that 21,000 deaths occur each year because of that 1.3 pCi/L.


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## el pic

Al Gerhart said:


> Could you post a link to that 1.3 pCi/L Radon result on Granite Transformations? I thought the highest was .4 pCi/L, must have missed something.
> 
> If it was 1.3 pCi/L, that is far from "safe". The EPA calculates that 1.3 pCi/L is the national average for home Radon levels and that 21,000 deaths occur each year because of that 1.3 pCi/L.


http://www.granitetransformations.com/Granite_Transformations_Radon_Safe_Letter.pdf


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## Al Gerhart

Thanks for the link!

Hmm, unless I missed it, the 1.3 pCi/L refered to the national Radon average, not one of Granite Transformation's products. But I could be wrong.

Looks like .4 pCi/L is the hottest color. I saw one result that was double background radiation, never a great thing if it can be avoided.


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## songbird_63366

*granite*

We had solid granite installed in our kitchen a couple of months ago. We have a bit over 80 sq. ft. With us doing the demolition, we paid 4200, and we love it. We chose a high end, rare granite, or the price would have been lower. As far as any company goes, check them out with the better business bureau before you do anything! RockTops Granite did ours, and though they did well by us, they went out of business before they finished other projects, leaving other customers with a demolished kitchen. With today's economy, it could happen to anyone, so beware. I, too, love concrete, but if your home is a traditional style, in the long run, granite would be the best way to go. I would also suggest the black undermount 60/40 granite composite sink. We got it and absolutely love it! Our price pfister faucet has the pull down sprayer, and is a single hole installation, which my husband did, and we also love. Have fun and good luck!


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## Al Gerhart

If it turns out to be hot, I have a lot of scientist friends researching countertop materials for Radon. I could send it out for professional testing. We have a Gamma Spectrometer as well, if it has some serious radiation, we can identify the isotopes causing any problems and get an energy level (how far the rays or particles can travel and how much penatrating power they have).

I'd guess there won't be a lot of Radon or radiation unless they use a lot of fly ash in their mix or if it is made with hot aggregrates.


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## Spo

I'm in Middle Tennessee and have just had Granite Transformations of Nashville do my counter top, under mount sink with required plumbing and now they're doing a tumbled stone back splash. I looked online for reviews before I called them to come out and really didn't have much luck finding anything. That is why I'm posting this review. Everyone we have dealt with from the salesperson, the installer, the plumber and now the tile man have been WONDERFUL! I can't say enough about the customer service and the quality of the work they have done. Everyone has been very prompt and very professional. My favorite thing is having granite, but not having the maintenance issues!! I am extremely pleased with my new kitchen!! I can't say much about the cost per sq. foot because I have no idea how many sq. feet of counter top I have. I had one other bid on a solid surface counter top and GT was only about $200 higher than that bid. 

p.s. I am not affiliated with Granite Transformations in any way whatsoever. I'm just a very happy customer!!


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## JanMoneyLady

*Getting the facts right would help*

_ GT Salesperson_


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## Scuba_Dave

Well after reading this thread GT is not for me
Sounds good, but at the same cost I'll use another product


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## reneekroyer

*Renee*



El Toro said:


> Im new to this forum so i just wanted to take a 2nd to say hello. just bought a condo back in april. im a DIY'er so im looking forward to a lot of helpful advice from this site!
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Granite Transformations? the product they sell is 95% granite mixed w/ a polymer that is formed into 1/4 inch thick slabs. these are then installed directly over top of your existing counter tops. no demolition. has anyone used this company before or know someone who has? I tried searching online for consumer reviews but was unable to find anything.
> 
> thanks in advance for any help you may give!


We had them out to our home. The granite does not look like real granite (we have it in our kitchen, we were looking to have it in our bathrooms). The cost is very high -- you can get slab granite for same price, or even less. They charged $250 for a Kohler white porceline undermount sink, too, and I can get them for $69 on line, or another granite company said they'd charge me $95 for the same sink. Overall, I think Granite Transformations is over priced and I was not impressed with the product.


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## JanMoneyLady

_ GT Salesperson_


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## Al Gerhart

Jan,
I'd think twice before starting to call by previous clients liars and deadbeat customers. This is a no win situtation for your company.

Jason was quite specific that the granite transformation installer drilled the holes off center. Most undermounts don't have drop decks for faucet mounting, most have the faucet holes drilled in the countertop deck. I wouldn't call Jason a liar until you have some proof to back it up , better to ask for a picture like I did.

Customers sometimes will pay part of their balance as a good faith gesture when there is an issue not yet resolved.

I'd like to hear Jason's side of this story and see some pictures. As it is, by bringing it up again, you did two things. First you verified that Jason is a real customer, an unhappy customer with issues that your company failed to correct. Secondly, you showed potential customers how they will be treated should they dare to post a complaint about granite transformations.

You guys run roughshod over unhappy customers and former francise owners it seems. Every company makes mistakes, good companies use them as a chance to show how they resolve complaints.
Make the guy a new top with the faucet centered properly and he might pay his balance. If not, you would then have clean hands for a court case.

On the Radon emanation, I corrected elpic already. Again you dredge up things that are best left alone if you look at this from the best interest of your company

"results are either Non Detect or very low,"
 
 In this case, you seem to be stating that there was no lab report at .4 pCi/L but there was one there, I copied the page if you need to see it. By denying the obvious, the easily proven, you are painting a very unflattering picture of your corporate culture. Had I sold a product that was found to be producing high radon emanation like this one color, I would embrace it. I would issue a recall for the product, test homes where the product was installed, then make new tops where needed. That would show integrity. At the very least, I would remove that particular color from inventory until the source of the Radon was found in your mix and the problem corrected.

Outdoor air Radon average is around .4 pCi/L, so that one granite transformation product will double the risk from Radon even in low Radon areas. In high Radon areas, most people are trying to remove the Radon from their homes but your one product is pumping it back in! This is not a good thing.


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## Scuba_Dave

One reason edit time should be restricted to 5 minutes
Everyone should have seen the post(s)


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## RippySkippy

> ...They charged $250 for a Kohler white porceline undermount sink, too, and I can get them for $69 on line, or another granite company said they'd charge me $95 for the same sink.


The way around that is to find out what model of sinks they have and you like then purchase your own where ever you choose. Notify GT of your choice before the counter is constructed and they will use their template which they have for many common sinks. By using the one they already have you will not have to pay their price for the sink, or the price of making the template. Sometimes you have to think outside the box...

You certainly cannot fault them for marking up products that are not theirs. The same holds true for virtually all contractors you may deal with; MOST apply a markup to the items purchased for the project.


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## specialkel68

My mom's neighbor did and they love the product. I hit your link when I went online to find their website. I'm getting my showers resurfaced - if the price is right.


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## raleigh lady

*Interesting...*

I was googling "granite transformations" to try to find out more and I found this thread. I wanted to post to see if anyone else had noticed that all the people who sing GT's praises only post about GT? If someone says they had a bad experience with GT in Miami, a new poster signs up that day to say that GT in Miami is the best?

I searched on the city-data forum and there was a post saying GT was great by someone who obviously works for GT. So basically they troll the internet and work their own PR through the guise of being happy customers. Good business plan, I guess, but I won't be buying their BS. I haven't heard from any real people who have this product.


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## currentsol

*Cost of GF products*

Last week a salesperson, from the Dallas area office, came out and gave me a quote. Overall it looked good and I accepted their offer, knowing I had time to back out since I will not be doing anything before fall.

After the sales person left I noticed that no where on the paper work was there any pricing for per sq. ft. I called the sales person and told him I needed in writing what the price is per sq. ft. of just the countertops (not counting sind, plumbing etc.), plus a full itemization of all the work to be done. The paperwork said I had 51 sq. ft.

I received a hand written itemization showing 72 sq. ft. at $46 plus the itemization of the other items. I immediately called him and he said no I had 72 sf. I told him to pull the paperwork and check it out and make the correction to the itemization.

I received another hand written itemization the following day. This time he shows 51 sf at $46, plus 50 linear ft. of edging at $20 sf. The additional items on the list changed but the bottom dollar remained the same. Now I am getting hot and know he has built something into this he does not want me to knw. So again I call the guy and he has this huge excuse why the first one was different from the second one, yada yada. I tell him I don't have a very good feeling about this. So I tell him I need the price per sf for countertops and edging per printed GF internal literature. 

I then received a typed itemization showing exactly what was on the 2nd one. I called him and left him word that this will not work, I want and expect printed internal information from GF showing what they charge per sf. I have not heard back yet.

I feel stupid I let him get out the door without him supplying all this info, but I was tired and it was late. Now that I am demanding it, I feel like this yoyo is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. 

I like the product, but I am not sure I want to deal with someone I think is being dishonest with me. Does anyone know what this stuff goes for in the Dallas area? Please help!


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## gma2rjc

currentsol, IMHO, if you are already having problems with this salesman/company being dishonest with you, run like hell. At this point in the game, you are seeing his best behavior. Imagine what it will be like if and when you have a problem during and after installation, when he already has your money. I wouldn't do business with a man who is dishonest, there are plenty of honest business people out there that would love to help you.


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## currentsol

*cost*

_:jester:You are right. I have since cancelled the contract, but I did as a result of my probing get their pricing list. I also advised them that all this detailed info should be put on their initial quote. Thanks for you advice, well heeded._


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## miamimike

El Toro said:


> Im new to this forum so i just wanted to take a 2nd to say hello. just bought a condo back in april. im a DIY'er so im looking forward to a lot of helpful advice from this site!
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Granite Transformations? the product they sell is 95% granite mixed w/ a polymer that is formed into 1/4 inch thick slabs. these are then installed directly over top of your existing counter tops. no demolition. has anyone used this company before or know someone who has? I tried searching online for consumer reviews but was unable to find anything.
> 
> thanks in advance for any help you may give!


I dealt with granite transformations in Miami. They redid my kitchen. I don't know where to begin....post instalation they were very responsive. We inadvertently chose a sink that was going to be too big to be installed in our new cabinets. We tried to bring this to their attention for almost three weeks to no avail. When the "installers" showed up the first time they had a counter top with the hole for the sink cut in the wrong place. Instead of listening to us regarding the size of the sink they simply proceeded to go back to the factory and cut another top and butchered my new cabinets to make the sink fit. I would say that the work done to accommodate the sink looked like it was done by monkeys with hatchets but that would be demeaning to monkeys. The back splash while beautiful was cut so poorly that when it was forced into place it pushed my new cabinets out of square. When they had finished the job there were gouges in the island counter top that fwere eventually fixed and the "seam" that we were told would exist looks more like canal with one side higher than the other. In addition the "plumber" that they sent to install the faucet did such a poor job that he practically ran out the door before we could turn the water on. It took us another week to get "installers" to return and finish the toekicks for the cabinets.

The material itself is beautiful and durable, when our friends see it they always comment on how nice it looks, they don't see it everyday...perhaps things have changed in the last year, I would recommend their product but not their busness practices.


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## harryb50

*No paperwork just business card with cost*

I had a GT salesman measure for my kitchen last year and he didn't give me any paperwork. He just wrote the price on his business card which was over $6,000.00 I was shocked because I thought it would be cheaper than granite. Should I really be leary because he didn't give me a written estimate?

Everything I have read about granite which I really wanted talks about the problems you can have. Even Consumer Reports doesn't really recommend them.


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## RippySkippy

I would ask for a written estimate that DETAILS the scope of the project...not just a $ amount. It's not just with GT that you need to do this...but anytime you have someone work for you. I'll save a load of confusion and help eliminate the possibility of mis-understandings later.

I have GT for almost 2 years and love the product...no maintenance, no problems. Is CR talking about the GT product or slab granite?


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## Scuba_Dave

harryb50 said:


> I had a GT salesman measure for my kitchen last year and he didn't give me any paperwork. He just wrote the price on his business card which was over $6,000.00 I was shocked because I thought it would be cheaper than granite. Should I really be leary because he didn't give me a written estimate?
> 
> Everything I have read about granite which I really wanted talks about the problems you can have. Even Consumer Reports doesn't really recommend them.


Without any info on the size of slabs its hard to know how high that estimate is. But I can have solid granite in my kitchen for less then $5k.

Did you ask for a complete written estimate?
I had a plumber out who threw out a verbal estimate of $10k
Buh bye
Another plumber did the work for just over $3k


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## harryb50

*CR Report*

They rated Engineered Stone (Quartz) no. 1 and granite no. 2. They questioned the non-stain quality of granite. CR did not mentioned anything about germs. CR rated Quartz and Granite both "very good" in stain resistance, and "excellent " in heat, cutting, and abrasion.

I called the dealer this morning about getting the estimate in writing and his assistant said she would get back to me. If I don't get a satisfactory response from the GT dealer I'll have to go with granite.

ann


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## miamimike

I don't know where you live, but if it's Miami Fl. don't walk away from these people, run, fast. The description of my situation was not exagerated.

mykle


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## harryb50

*Called from GT dealer*

The dealer did call and said if I was ready to buy he would write up a contract and review it with me. He would not give me a written estimate. I will see about getting a different type of countertop. I still find it hard to believe he wouldn't give a written estimate. Why not? I really don't understand.

ann


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## Scuba_Dave




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## harryb50

*Finally got my countertop*

I decided to get Granite Shield granite countertops and it was installed today. It never has be sealed. It offers all the convenience I thought was only available in a quartz product. It was over $1,000 cheaper than the granite transformation countertop price I was quoted. I also had no trouble getting a written estimate from the granite dealer. I purchased 99 square feet of granite. :whistling2:

ann brown


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## Al Gerhart

Harry b50 or Ann,

Quartz doesn't need sealed at all, so the granite sheild product isn't used on quartz. Read the warranty very, very, carefully on the granite sheild product and refer to the care and cleaning instructions as well. If you don't follow the instructions to the letter, the warranty is completely void. I tell people I could sell you a good cardboard box as a countertop and that if you followed those same care and cleaning instructions, you would be just as happy.

Be sure you have that new granite countertop tested for radon and radiation. Testing for heavy metals is a bit harder, we are working on test kits for some of the common heavy metals found in granite, but the problem is the amounts normally found in granite will max out the test kits currently available. No one ever dreamed that a consumer product would ever be sold with such high levels so the test kits were designed to reflect current maximum allowed heavy metal content in products (100 to 600 ppm depending on the type of heavy metal).


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## harryb50

*Choose Granshield Coated Granite instead of Granite Transformations*

AL

Yes, I read the warranty very carefully and that's why I choose it. The warranty of the quartz and the Granite Shield Granite were not different. Neither ever need sealing. Once the granite is sealed with the Granite Shield product it never needs sealing again. You can use Windex to clean the counters. Stains such as wine can sit overnight with no staining. I have grandchildren who are not careful spillers so I had to purchase a counter that would be as child proof as possible.

I couldn't find any concrete information on the radon in granite being as dangerous as you have implied. I know the Consumers Reports didn't worry about it and I trust their judgement. I do know that I had decided to buy granite transformation quartz countertop but I couldn't trust the dealer once I found out that he wouldn't give me a written estimate after he took the measurements of my countertops. I asked him twice. 

Do you really think that Consumer Reports would recommend "real" granite countertops to the public if it was considered "toxic" for the public to use?

ann brown


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## Al Gerhart

Ann,

All sorts of things are done out of ignorance, so yes I do think that Consumer Reports would recomend granite to the public. Quartz beat granite though in their last report. I know, Our shop was one of the three shops from across the country that contributed pricing info for that report. You do know that CR did only two tests on two small granite samples?

As to the radon in granite, it is not I that is implying, it is a variety of scientists all across the US. AARST (the radon scientist organization) has recognized the threat, with the lead scientist on record saying that as many as 5% of all granites might be problematic (quoted in the Star Tribune out of Minnesota, last month). The CRDPD (state radiation officals organization) is studying the EU regulations concerning radon emission from granite and will likely recomend the EU regulations be adopted here in the U.S. Is this needed? Yes, the last MIA (Stone lobby organization) study tested 39 granite slabs, 18 failed to meet the EU standards which means they can not be sold in European Community nations.

Now, I get quite disgusted when I see eroneous info about countertop products, so forgive me if I rain on the granite shield parade. If you read their warranty, the promise to "repair and reseal" if the granite stains. They specificaly leave out etching as well, and you know that Windex is alkaline? Alkaline products will damage granite if used repeatably, a simple internet search will prove that.

Note that they do claim they will replace any granite should the stain be unable to be removed "as determined by an authorized granite shield inspector providing there was no abuse, neglect, misuse, vandalism,or lack of proper care and maintenance." That is an awful big loop hole they laid out there.

Here is a link to a really good internet battle over his product. I liked the parts about granite shield failing one stone sites testing and then the refusal to send samples to others for testing. The Mauzio guy was well respected in the stone industry prior to his death last year. He was quiet vocal on some of the scams used in the natural stone industry so he was just being himself on this thread.

http://forums.findstone.com/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=1946

If you are indeed a homeowner, read Mauzio's comments about how often happy homeowners show up to boast about their purchases online. He scored a major point when he pointed out that few will take the time to post about when they are pleased, that usually it is the unhappy customers that frequent advice sites.


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## harryb50

*Maybe you can explain it?*

Al,

I am indeed a part time housewife who is a full time library employee eagerly anticipating her retirement. Maybe you can answer this for me - why wouldn't the Granite Transformation dealer in my area not give me a written estimate? Even a month later it still confounds me. I was ready to buy from him and I hadn't even planned on going with granite because I assumed it would cost more and the auguments he made about granite requiring a lot of maintenance. 

He stated the only way he would give me an estimate if I was ready to sign a contract. His actions prompted me to look more thoroughly into granite as my countertop choice.

ann brown


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## Al Gerhart

Anne,
I apologize for mistaking you for a shill. I hope you can see from the findstone.com thread how common it is for these shills to show up and try to influence consumers. Which is why I seldom go on about solid surface unless asked.

All I can tell you about granite transformations is that they seem to have a business model that depends on finding naive consumers. A written quote would meant you were still shopping around, ever talked to a car salesman? They know that once you walk, they have likely lost the sale cause it isn't a good deal for you in most cases. High pressure sales....

I do agree that granite is cheaper but I disagree that granite doesn't have a lot of maintance. The very fact that it has to be kept spotless to prevent stains is proof of that. I'll tell you what, go over to the Marble Institute of America, find their consumer page, look up the care and cleaning instructions. Placematts, coasters, blot up spills immediately, regular sealing, don't set hot pots on it, the list goes on. Most people wouldn't buy granite if they read those instructions before buying.

And library people rule. I wish you guys would take over the government, no one takes care of the public like the libraries.


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## sgoodfellow1113

Im not certain about in NJ, but we had our countertops done by granite transformations out of St. Louis. The countertops we ordered were not the same color that they brought to install, by comparison to our sample,even though they said the name was the same......so WE had to pay for changing the color. The Installer seemed at best uninterested in making sure it was correct. 1 week after it was installed the countertop got a large crack. A contractor we had for something unrelated told us it was because they had not insured that it was level. HOWEVER, they charged US for that also because we apparently abused it. We spent upwards of 10,000 for this average sized kitchen. Im needless to say NOT impressed with the product OR their customer service if you would call it that. 
ALSO FYI I found out after the fact the guys working for them are not union, they are just who ever they can hire off the street and pay $9.00/hour. Wish we had known all that before we chose them!! 
BUYER BEWARE


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## kitchenhappy

*kitchen happy*

:thumbup: I had my counter tops installed by Granite Transformations last year and I think they are terrific! The process is environmentally friendly as there is no tear out. That appealed to me. Also it is non porous and never needs to be sealed. I wanted a surface completely safe for food prep. I don't want chemical sealants around my food. It doesn't scratch either. Since I have a newer place, this allowed me to keep my really nice tile backsplash. With a tear out you lose your backsplash. I don't really like slab granite because it's just too heavy and friends of mine said their's chipped in several places especially around the undermount sink. Engineered stones are considered better than slab granite. Also my counter tops don't streak like traditional granite. The price was reasonable at $3000 for my large kitchen, that included plumbing. All of my other estimates were much higher. I love it!


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## Al Gerhart

Anyone out there doubt that this last post was a shill?


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## gma2rjc

Do you mean KitchenHappy might be a company rep and would like to convince _someone that this product is........

Mmmm, no I hadn't thought of that. 

LOL

Of course, there is a possibility that out of the many many many people that company has apparently ripped off, there may be 1 happy customer._


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## Scuba_Dave

Most of the one post wonders touting the benefits of this product are most likely selling the product


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## Al Gerhart

There was a guy named Mauzio over at Findstone.com that was one of the few honest stone guys, famous for laying it all out, warts and all. He got into a battle with some of the granite shield reps ("lifetime" sealer for stone) posing as happy customers and made a comment that in all the ten thousand consumer postings on that forum, not one consumer ever posted that they were happy with their purchase. After all, they came to the site for help with problems on their stone countertop.

I would say the same is true here, a happy consumer rarely goes on the internet to defend a company that sold them a countertop.


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## gma2rjc

I've heard that word-of-mouth is the best advertising for a business. That doesn't seem to be true for Granite Transformations. 

So, if a person is thinking about having a counter top installed and they google 'Granite Transformations', will the postings on this forums show up in the search?

*10 minutes later*

Why, as a matter of fact, googling 'Granite Transformations' did give me the opportunity to click on the diychatroom.com website and it brought me to this very thread.


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## Scuba_Dave

gma2rjc said:


> I've heard that word-of-mouth is the best advertising for a business. That doesn't seem to be true for Granite Transformations.
> 
> So, if a person is thinking about having a counter top installed and they google 'Granite Transformations', will the postings on this forums show up in the search?
> 
> *10 minutes later*
> 
> Why, as a matter of fact, googling 'Granite Transformations' did give me the opportunity to click on the diychatroom.com website and it brought me to this very thread.


89,533 views & counting.......Ya think?

And this is why we have the one post wonders touting THEIR product while pretending to be customers
Because the SALES people also find this thread & the TRUTH about some of the sales methods are shown here. That & the complaints are probably turning business away from them. But it's their own fault. You need to HAVE a better mousetrap, not just say you do


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## mplpdx

I work in a popular bar in Denver the entire bar is granite
it has been there at least 3 years and is still in great shape 
We had one issue with water getting under the granite Very wet area.
We called and they replaced the entire section not charge. 
prompt and courteous. I highly recommend it!


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## blackcatmom

*Granite Transformations Mosaics/Bathroom Redo*

Has anyone used this company for a bathroom redo? Got an estimate yesterday for masterbath stall shower and jacuzzi apron and deck using glass mosaics everywhere except the tub deck as I was told they can not cut circular in the mosaic tiles so would have to use glass there. Was also told by a friend that it is hard to install shower doors on the mosaic as it is prone to cracking. I really do not want to rip everything out and start over and this seems like an alternative - but a costly one. Please help! Most of the posts refer to kitchen counters and I want some info on bathrooms. Thanks


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## mplpdx

Are you talking about the 1" glass tiles?
If so and they cant go around a tub then you need a new tile setter.
As for a shower door even if you have to pop off a tile for the screws the hinge or frame should cover that spot.


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## blackcatmom

*Round cuts on mosaic tile*

I think you missed the point of my post - the co rep who is the owner's daughter said that the glass mosaic tiles can not be cut in a circular pattern - these tiles are not individually set so there is no tile setter involved - this product comes in sheets like granite not separate tiles and because of the nature of the mosaic it can not be cut circular to cover the deck of a jacuzzi tub


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## brayden0876

*Real granite*

Not that anything is wrong with the overlayment, but you can do real solid granite for that price. I know it is probably far from you, but if you are up in the freehold twp area..(american granite) has a huge granite yard and you get to pick and choose your piece. The prices are very very competitive. See carlos and tell him the (albino's) sent you!


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## larrylwill

I just finished my kitchen from a total gut. I bought Granite. I checked about 15 granite warehouses, Birmingham Al., Chattagonaga Tn. Atlanta Ga. our granite is epoxy resin sealed. I was told by more than one dealer that about 80% of granite is now sealed with epoxy resin by the distributors. Look on the rough uncut edges of the slabs you can see it as it runs down like dripping paint usually looks like poly urethane. I saw it in every granite warehouse I went to. Not every slab but many. It does not need to be sealed again, will not stain and is food safe. They do it to fill the natural pits and voids in the surface and make it shiney. Not all dealers even know this. Granite is one of those still secretive items the dealers dont want you to know too much. Most dealers wont even tell you what the slabs cost as they roll it into fabrication. I'm in north Alabama. In California you can just buy slabs and pay for fabrication separate, but here you cant. Most warehouses wont even let you in without a fabricator name and number. They wont give you any prices either. I spent more than a month researching before I bought.


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## pmmorris90802

We had this product installed in our home in Long Beach.CA and could not be happier, the presentation was professional as was the instillation crew. Was it expensive, probably, I was quoted over $5,000 for solid granite not including removal of the existing countertop and Granite Transformations was $6100. Day one they came out and measured and created their template and day two (all day) they installed the countertop. It included a new undermounted sink. I of course replaced all the fixtures and had a plumber do all the work which ended up costing me another $1,000. That was for 77 square feet of countertop. I'm a fan and would recommend the product.
PM


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## Kiwi.

pmmorris90802 said:


> We had this product installed in our home in Long Beach.CA and could not be happier, the presentation was professional as was the instillation crew. Was it expensive, probably, I was quoted over $5,000 for solid granite not including removal of the existing countertop and Granite Transformations was $6100. Day one they came out and measured and created their template and day two (all day) they installed the countertop. It included a new undermounted sink. I of course replaced all the fixtures and had a plumber do all the work which ended up costing me another $1,000. That was for 77 square feet of countertop. I'm a fan and would recommend the product.
> PM


Why pick GT if real granite was cheaper? 

And why do people imply that:
1- removing an existing counter top is such a chore.
2- granite can't be installed in a day or two.


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## pmmorris90802

I'm not here to defend a decision I'm just sharing our experience. We have a handful of friends who put in granite and it wasn't cheaper and it took much to long and the countertop removal was a mess with dust and dirt. You want granite, heck put it in, we're happy with what we bought.


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## hcc

I just recently had my kitchen remodeled by Granite transformations. I will tell you my experience. The cost is almost the same as the real thing and you cannot have any choices on the granite counter top corners. The biggest problem I have with them is the pullout drawers. If you have pullout drawers, do not use Granite Transformations. After the Granite transformations is done with the cabinet doors, I have to swing the doors to almost 180 degree to open. That is not functional. I have emailed and called the company several times but all I got is lip services. They would not come out to fix the problems. The customer service is lousy, they would not return calls.


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## TGilbert

*started ova...*

As hard as it is to say, sometimes you have to start from scratch instead of starting over. We used StoneSheets, which we ordered and installed, and it was real stone on an aluminum substrate. We had to order it through our friend's brother because he worked at a place that sold it, but the stuff was great and so easy. We were going to use their overlay material, but our tops were too bad and we were just better off replacing it.


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## almahix

No one will believe that I am a real customer if I say something nice, but deal with it, skeptics. I am a Granite Transformation customer in Camarillo, CA. I recently had my kitchen and 3 bathrooms updated with granite (over tile) and cabinet refacing, and the people from GT did an excellent job. Everything looks and works great. The workers were very careful and precise in what they did, and they were polite, cooperative, and respectful of people, property, and pets. The manager was easy to work with and very knowledgeable and professional. I had a little trepidation before starting, but the final results are excellent. Thank you to the people of GT Ventura, CA for a job well done.


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## brian73

Here is my experience... We priced cabinet refacing and granite transfermations... For less then cabinet refacing we replaced all our cabs with cherry. For less then GT we did slabs with full back splash. We did the tear out ourselves, sold the old cabinets for about $400. Took us less then 1 day to take all the old cabs down. I am not knocking those that chose GT, I personally think it looks cheap and would rather do granite tile for about 1/4 the cost. Some of the quotes i have seen are nearly double what I paid per sqf for real granite installed. We paid 5k including granite, for about 80sqf installed. That is about 50sqf of counter, 30 sqf of backsplash and window etc.

I would highly suggest people shop around... Lowes/HD etc were about 30% higher for both cabinets and granite. A friend of mine went to sears for cabinet refacing and the quote he got was more then what we paid for all new cabs in our kitchen, and his kitchen is half the size. A savvy shopper can save huge if he spends the time. :thumbsup:


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## Michigander

We went with GT a year ago and are very happy. As they are a franchise dealer network, each installer will be different in their quality and service. Our installer from Grandville Michigan was great and we couldn't be happier. 

I get a chuckle out of "for the price you could have had the real thing" statements. It is real granite, but without the defects, cracking, chipping and staining. Sure it doesn't have the graining that some are looking for, but that doesn't make it an inferior product, as it also doesn't have the weakness that comes with natural seams (grain) in a stone slab. 

We did the homework, visited the showrooms, compared GT to slab stones, artificial stone, quartz, concrete, and laminates. We asked for references from satisfied customers. Few dealers had them available (our GT dealer did) and then we made calls to realtors, builders and kitchen remodelers. In the end no one could give us a negative about the GT product and it all came down to "personal preference". 

FOR US, the "no muss, no fuss, and lifetime guarantee made GT OUR personal preference. Now we are on the satisfied customer list and have shown our kitchen to other prospective GT buyers.

No, I'm not a "shill" for GT. I googled the product to find the stores ph# for a coworker that saw our kitchen and liked it enough to look into it further. I followed a link here and after reading some of the uninformed comments, I had to throw in my .02 worth. If you don't like it: great! If you don't own it, why try to tell others BS about how bad it is?


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## trendstone

*GT Remodel*

I used GT for my bathroom and I love it personally. I used to have a nice granite kitchen counter top, but the thing is it broke very easily. I was sad to see that after a year it had a huge crack down the middle. I guess people spend more with GT's material simply because it doesn't break or crack so easily as granite would. They are a little pricey, but to give them credit, they were fast, clean and didn't hesitate when I asked them anything.


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## janetta

Granite Transformations- I have used them for four different kitchens -some covering exisitng benches and some replacing cubboards and benches entirely. The tops are stronger than real granite (I have an island made of that) and easier to clean. The cupboards are resilient. The installation was supurb and reliable. I am just about to reconstruct the bathrooms and use them there. Their service and product appeals to the minimum fuss person that I am. The design works well with my current 1920 house.


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## shark-bait

I used GT in the Denver area. I went to one showroom, they referred me to a different location, apparently each location has exclusive territories. This was last summer. After I did purchase and had the install, I was not as happy about the countertops/backsplashes. I got an e-mail from them to rate the product and service and get a $25 gift certificate for my trouble, and I was not real happy so I filled out their rating form and sent it back, and here is what they wrote in their automatic e-mail response.
"Granite Transformations would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to our request. Your thoughts are important to us and we'll improve with your feedback.
We're sorry you're disappointed. We'd like to make this right. We're now looking into the details of your installation and we'll be in touch with you soon. In the meantime, if you'd like to speak with us immediately, please call our office at (303) 420-8920".......well it's over 6 months and still no response from this e-mail. With the feedback form, there was a link to claim a gift certificate worth $25 for local restaurants (I would have to spend $100 to get $25 off. Wow, they really impressed me with this scam, since their initial claim is a $25 gift certificate).
We got the trend glass countertop, the issue is that the tiny pieces of glass held together with their resin easily chip off along the 90*edges and along the rounded edges by the new sink they installed and now catch the material of towels and also your skin. 
Bottom line, if I had to do it over again, I would keep looking at other products.


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## peggyboomer

I have a problem. I had these lovely Granite Transformation countertops installed last October. They recommended a Siligranit sink by Blanco, which they sold to me and they installed, and which we just discovered has a big crack in it. No idea how or why. But now GT wants to top-mount the replacement sink, because they dont want to re-do my granite countertops to make it right. I'm not sure what my rights are, but I'm pretty upset about the whole situation. I don't know how it's going to look if they top-mount it, and, of course, the whole idea was to have it look nice and be easy to clean with the under-mounted sink. I've loved it so far, but now I don't know what to do. I'm in Florida. Does anyone know if GT has to make this right for me?


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## Ron6519

peggyboomer said:


> I have a problem. I had these lovely Granite Transformation countertops installed last October. They recommended a Siligranit sink by Blanco, which they sold to me and they installed, and which we just discovered has a big crack in it. No idea how or why. But now GT wants to top-mount the replacement sink, because they dont want to re-do my granite countertops to make it right. I'm not sure what my rights are, but I'm pretty upset about the whole situation. I don't know how it's going to look if they top-mount it, and, of course, the whole idea was to have it look nice and be easy to clean with the under-mounted sink. I've loved it so far, but now I don't know what to do. I'm in Florida. Does anyone know if GT has to make this right for me?


It cracked because of boiling liquid being put into the sink. You know, water from cooking pasta. It seems you need to turn on the water before you dump the pasta or the shock will...well you know now.
This information should have been explained to you when the installer put the counter in. It might even be stated on the contract you signed when you bought the counter.
Read any paperwork you have and if you're not happy with the alternative solution, contact a lawyer.
Ron


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## rosco

i didn't read all the pages but if this stuff is anything like cast marble BE SURE to get a very popular color scheme that will be made by many manufacturers. we've cast marble in the bathrooms and have found it impossible to match the color schemes that were very popular in this area five years ago. the company who manufactured it is all but out of business and the other ones can't match it.


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## MendozaConst

*Granite Transformations*

Hey there, i've worked with granite transformations here in the charlotte area, this company will do everything right, the no demolition is for real they do install the countertops in less then a day, oh and they have a lifetime warranty, alone with other positive stuff. i like my new granite countertops, and it's real granite, only better.
the price its right for this quality, remember you get what you paid!:thumbsup:


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## lbrown

mcintyrelin said:


> *I have to agree with one of the posts I read. I think the stuff is over priced. If you could save enough money to make it worth your while to use GT OK. But, Why pay for a substitute for the real thing. :no:*


 Hi! We are getting GT and the selling point for us is that it has a lifetime warranty and is supposed to be virtually scratch and burn pervious. If you sell the home the new owner has a 10 year warranty. I don't know what it is for granite. I think you will be pleased with granite or granite transformations. There is a wider selection among granite colors than is offered with granite transformations, though.


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## mcmlxiii

*Overpriced and Poor Quality*

The product looks good and installation was quick and trouble free. However, the product costs nearly as much as real granite and is not durable. We found one chip on the seam/edge after only a couple of weeks, and a second chip a few months later - both were repaired free-of-charge under the warranty. We have just discovered a third chip, just over a year after the date of installation.

We would definitely NOT recommend Granite Transformations.


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## edadmartin

*here is my take after 2 years of use*

We had granite transformations do our kitchen about 2 years ago.We love the color of the granite composite,and Ill be doing a kitchen reface in white oak in the near future. In hind site i would make sure the old cabinets and formica top or tile tops are very sound, don't be afraid to add cleats or stretchers before construction or demand the installers do so . For sure around sink openings and in the corner of any el shaped areas.lay a 6 foot level around and get it as level and without concave areas as possible by shimming where necessary.your new top needs to be level, so the old top does as well. I had asked the guys to make sure it was so, around the big new sink,they said yea yea ,but when i came in with my own level they started doin the moon walk. It was not even close ! After adhesive is down its hard to change that sort of thing. Also lay out seams away from the sink area,and Inspect their seam work while its happening so if its not to your liking it can be fixxed, Make sure they support the seams while the glue is wet,after wards it cannot be changed at all without removal !! Hind site is a wonderful thing right? Over all i like the look,but you can tell its not a solid chunk of granite.Also it will not polish like granite--it has to much resin in the mix. Satin is all you get. It cleans nicely and takes some heat although we don't set anything really hot directly on the top nor do we cut on it .The cost of our job was about 25-35% less than solid granite. I would give the product an 8 for cost and durability, And the company and installers 7-8.:thumbsup:


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## happy face

Hi All! I'm planning on a kitchen total remodel. We're replacing floors, cabinets, counter tops and appliances. I really wanted granite, but this granite transformers product seems like a better choice. I just wanted another honest fact about it as to durability and maintenance. Please reply and letr me know of your experience with the product. Thanks in advance.

We were thinking about granite for the counter tops, but this granite transformations product sounds pretty good too. I'd like some really honest facts to its durability and maintenance. Does it need sealing? Does it stain? Does it crack? Can you put hot pots on it without leaving burn marks or destroying the finish? Did your price comparison against granite slabs find it less expensive or comparable? Who sells this product?

Thanks in advance, Eva


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## Barstang

*Granite Transformations*

We had a friend us it on countertops to upgrade to sell their home. It looked good. we had them come and give us a quote and found the cost was not much less than slab granite. We went with 3/4 inch slab granite for about $1.25 sq ft more. We were staying in our home and wanted something that would last.

Good luck with your remodel.


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## Sandra Fanelli

Four years ago I bought Granite Transformations. I am very unhappy with this products durabilty, appearance, and price. It has not lived up to the "hype" of it's marketing. It is disintegrating in spots, it is dull and it looks fake. Next week, it is being tore out and replaced with granite. It has been a costly lesson.


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## ski46

*Granit transformation- shay away from this *****



El Toro said:


> Im new to this forum so i just wanted to take a 2nd to say hello. just bought a condo back in april. im a DIY'er so im looking forward to a lot of helpful advice from this site!
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Granite Transformations? the product they sell is 95% granite mixed w/ a polymer that is formed into 1/4 inch thick slabs. these are then installed directly over top of your existing counter tops. no demolition. has anyone used this company before or know someone who has? I tried searching online for consumer reviews but was unable to find anything.
> 
> thanks in advance for any help you may give!


Say away from this cheap sh.. - After a few years cupboard doors start to delaminate , They wont replace new ones for free, wanted $400.00 per door size 300 x 250 . By the time you paid for a kitchen make over from this mod you could get a new kitchen . Nothing but pure garbage


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## Charles Weeks

_I was just showing a friend of mine the info on Granite Transformations as she is getting ready to redo her kitchen and bath and after reading these posts I just have to respond! Our entire home has been redone by Granite Transformations in Bloomington, Il and we could not have had a better experience with each install! We have moved with our jobs over 5 times thru out the years and always had extensive remodeling done so we were used to problems and poor service but from day one our experiences have been perfect with Granite Transformaitons. We have had our countertops in the kitchen and the baths redone, our cabinets refaced and just finished having our out dated tub removed and replaced with a walk in shower. The material is so far superior to slab granite (which we have had in other homes) that any comparision to slab is rediculous. The refacing was a breeze and the change to our bathroom is stunning. We have found the pricing to be very competitive but the best part has been the company itself. _


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## ski46

Charles Weeks said:


> _I was just showing a friend of mine the info on Granite Transformations as she is getting ready to redo her kitchen and bath and after reading these posts I just have to respond! Our entire home has been redone by Granite Transformations in Bloomington, Il and we could not have had a better experience with each install! We have moved with our jobs over 5 times thru out the years and always had extensive remodeling done so we were used to problems and poor service but from day one our experiences have been perfect with Granite Transformaitons. We have had our countertops in the kitchen and the baths redone, our cabinets refaced and just finished having our out dated tub removed and replaced with a walk in shower. The material is so far superior to slab granite (which we have had in other homes) that any comparision to slab is rediculous. The refacing was a breeze and the change to our bathroom is stunning. We have found the pricing to be very competitive but the best part has been the company itself. _


 haha yeah sure


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## Al Gerhart

*These shills just never give up do they?*

I get the picture that Granite Transformations spends as much time online shilling their product and trying to drown out the real customer complaints as they do making their product!

As long as they keep marketing their product by claiming they save thousands of dollars in tear out cost and claiming it is quicker to install they might continue to keep the suckers buying their product.


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## skipstephenson

*countertops*

100 a square foot where I live in Colorado would be for the nicer rare granites at 3 centimeter thick. I would get some bids on regular granite and check your self to see if your current counter tops come off with out destroying the cabinets. It is a sin to over countertop bad cabinets so hopefully yours are ok.

http://www.kitchenguidebook.com


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## Al Gerhart

*Destroying the cabinets?*

extremely unlikely to damage the cabinets removing the top unless someone screwed the substrate down before covering it with laminate. I do several hundred tops a year and have seen that once in my entire career.

Granit can cost as little as $39 per square foot for basic colors these day, in fact it is usually the cheapest product out there besides plastic laminate. As bad as granite is as a countertop, it is preferable to glueing a layer of cheap crap over the top of the existing countertop, less mess and less time in the home too.


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## john Passanante

BUYER BEWARE~~~

dONT EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS PRODUCT! ITS NOT AN AMERICAN BRAND. IT OWNED BY A BALD SKINNY ITALIAN WHO CALLS HIMSELF RUGORO, THIS GUY CANT EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH!! THIER PRICES ARE 3 TIMES MORE THAN THE REAL STONE. I HAD A HORRABLE EXPIRENCE WITH THEM- POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE- POOR INSTALLATION- AND WHAT A MESS! oh,AND WHEN I COMPLAINED, IT WAS ALWAYS THE OTHERS GUYS FAULT. COME TO FIND OUT, THIS IS A STANDARD EXCUSE FOR THIS COMPANY, NO ONE TO BLAME, BUT THE OWNERS- VERY VERY POOR MANAGEMENT.


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## john Passanante

Sandra Fanelli said:


> Four years ago I bought Granite Transformations. I am very unhappy with this products durabilty, appearance, and price. It has not lived up to the "hype" of it's marketing. It is disintegrating in spots, it is dull and it looks fake. Next week, it is being tore out and replaced with granite. It has been a costly lesson.


 
THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST HERE TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK AND THEN THEY WILL DISAPPEAR:furious:


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## veazie

*granite transformation*

install real granite-it is actually cheaper than granite transformation and does not make a mess like they want you to believe. the counters they installed for me looked awful. their product is just a thin sheet -the installer just carries it in by himself. their showroom gives the impression that it is thick like granite.ask them to show you a piece that is not glued to a slab of wood.


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## binkiesmom

*Wow*

:thumbsup:


MattyGit said:


> Ok, well... finally, today 6/3/08, they finished my kitchen. Here are some quick pictures. I still need to switch outlet covers and some other minor things... but you get the idea.


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## binkiesmom

*I don't see complaints with the BBB they have an A Rating*

:huh:


john Passanante said:


> BUYER BEWARE~~~
> 
> dONT EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS PRODUCT! ITS NOT AN AMERICAN BRAND. IT OWNED BY A BALD SKINNY ITALIAN WHO CALLS HIMSELF RUGORO, THIS GUY CANT EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH!! THIER PRICES ARE 3 TIMES MORE THAN THE REAL STONE. I HAD A HORRABLE EXPIRENCE WITH THEM- POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE- POOR INSTALLATION- AND WHAT A MESS! oh,AND WHEN I COMPLAINED, IT WAS ALWAYS THE OTHERS GUYS FAULT. COME TO FIND OUT, THIS IS A STANDARD EXCUSE FOR THIS COMPANY, NO ONE TO BLAME, BUT THE OWNERS- VERY VERY POOR MANAGEMENT.


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## binkiesmom

john Passanante said:


> BUYER BEWARE~~~
> 
> dONT EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS PRODUCT! ITS NOT AN AMERICAN BRAND. IT OWNED BY A BALD SKINNY ITALIAN WHO CALLS HIMSELF RUGORO, THIS GUY CANT EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH!! THIER PRICES ARE 3 TIMES MORE THAN THE REAL STONE. I HAD A HORRABLE EXPIRENCE WITH THEM- POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE- POOR INSTALLATION- AND WHAT A MESS! oh,AND WHEN I COMPLAINED, IT WAS ALWAYS THE OTHERS GUYS FAULT. COME TO FIND OUT, THIS IS A STANDARD EXCUSE FOR THIS COMPANY, NO ONE TO BLAME, BUT THE OWNERS- VERY VERY POOR MANAGEMENT.


I am purchasing a home and hate the kitchen and bathroom and was looking for an alternative to ripping it all out and replacing until I got into this thread. I guess I am confused there are some really bad reviews but not one complaint to the BBB. That would be the first place I would complain.


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## Bud Cline

What's the BBB gonna do? They don't have any ability or power to do anything.

One becomes a member of the BBB so that they can promote themselves as being a member, it's a selling point to the unwary. If a member gets a complaint they are asked to resolve it to save their membership and keep it in good standing. Complaints to the BBB can only have an effect on a member that wants to remain a member. Otherwise the BBB is spineless.


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## Jim F

This company sounds like one more of those national chains that have a lot of money for marketing but that are just way overpriced for the product and service they offer. Maybe you will have a good experience with them or a bad one. Either way you will spend WAY TOO MUCH MONEY. Stick with a local contractor with a good reputation and references. You will likely be amazed at how much less you will spend.


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## BCCDIY

Hi
We had our kitchen redone by Granite Transformations. Can't fault it - the kitchen looks amazing. However, people need to know that if you have your powerpoints changed by Star Point Electricians (the ones used by Granite Transformations), the switches are only guaranteed for three months. We have had one switch crack in less than 6 months and Star Point Electricans want to charge a ridiculous call out fee of $129 to replace the $18 switch. They were also very difficult to contact and did not return phone calls or emails.


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## liquidice281

I invited Granite Transformations to come out to my new home for a quote on new countertops after they refused to give me a price per square foot over the phone (red flag) and promising they would be cheaper than real granite. Their sales guy arrived promptly with samples and we picked out what we liked which happened to be a 25% granite 75% glass/polymer blend.

The quote was $4200 for 55 sq ft of countertop which comes out to over $75/sq foot. Went with a local granite company who installed the real thing for $45/sq foot. 

So if you want 25% granite that costs over 50% more -- go with them :huh:


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## Wally e46

I'm going to do my counter top and maybe cabinet refinishing.
Don't know what the costs are for all this is.
This forum is very helpful.


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## customerS

*Granite Transformation*

I love my new kitchen countertop by Granite Transformation. I painted the existing cabinets and splerged on the countertop. Advise... the longer the sales rep was here, the more she threw in discounts to get the sale. I got a free sink too. The materials, backsplash, type of bullnose, etc. all have different prices, so that is why they can't quote you a price. You need to see the samples to get estimates. Mine was about $20 a square foot if you include the install. 

The install was a dream... quick, clean and well done. There was a long wait between my placed order and the install (7 weeks) due to a backup. So if you want it done for holidays... get it started now.

My only worry is how heavy these are... will they start to crush my cabinets which are now 30 years old? And it I get new cabs, how hard is it to save the countertop?


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## Bud Cline

So you purchased and installed Traffic Master Allure and have found it to be not as expected. Now you have purchased from Granite Transformations???
Wow. Hey I have some ocean-front property in New Mexico for sale. Are you interested in buying it?


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## customerS

Bud Cline said:


> So you purchased and installed Traffic Master Allure and have found it to be not as expected. Now you have purchased from Granite Transformations???
> Wow. Hey I have some ocean-front property in New Mexico for sale. Are you interested in buying it?


 
Hey Bud, Good luck advertising your business name here!


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## DangerMouse

Bud Cline said:


> So you purchased and installed Traffic Master Allure and have found it to be not as expected. Now you have purchased from Granite Transformations???
> Wow. Hey I have some ocean-front property in New Mexico for sale. Are you interested in buying it?


All right Bud.... behave yourself. 

DM


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## Bud Cline

> Hey Bud, where did you learn to read? I didn't like the Allure Ultra flooring, but loved the Granite Transformation countertop last year. Why the smart ass comment with ??? Your post is accoustic, provoking and counter productive.
> 
> Oh, I see that your business is Bud Cline Tile... you're pissed because you are trying to promote tile instead of what I bought.
> 
> OK, this is a waste of my time... I reported you and as of now... quit this discussion forum. Good luck advertising your business name here!


WOW!!! Aren't we touchy? Allure doesn't have the best reputation as you now know and neither does Granite Transformations as you will find out. I was just trying to have little fun with you but I see having fun isn't in your makeup.

I don't advertise anything here but I do try to steer people away from sorry products that I am aware of. And YES I can be a little "accoustic" (misspelled by the way) but shouldn't the word you were trying to use to insult me be: caustic? I am also caustic at times. Such as now when thankless people jump on their soap box after getting their fragile feelings hurt. I've been reported before you aren't getting a virgin in that area either.


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## Bud Cline

> All right Bud.... behave yourself.


Yes sir, I'm sorry sir. I'll try to be good....again.


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## OhioHomeDoctor

Bud Cline said:


> Yes sir, I'm sorry sir. I'll try to be good....again.


Granite Transformations is the bath fitter of the kitchen industry.


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## billecorgan

Hi there everyone. I happened on to this site while searching for people that have used 'Granite Transformations'. I had them do an estimate and I couldn't stand the guy that came to do it! He was like a robotic salesman and couldn't talk to me on any level other than selling this stuff to me. They wound up being decent, I guess. About 38/sq foot. It was about $2700 total. I am not going with them though because of the numerous complaints I have found about the longterm problems. There is another place here in Oklahoma City where I'm at that I used in another house. It's like NW 10th and Rockwell, I asked if I could buy the slabs for my master bath and regular bath and just do those myself, but mentioned I was going to have them do my kitchen. He actually said he would install those bath ones too for just the cost of the slab. His granite was only $32 /sq ft. for this kind with doubled up edges. I have about 38 sq ft in the kitchen, then a 9 ft. piece in master bath (18 sq ft) and a 4 ft. (8 sq ft) piece in regular bath, so all together I have about 64 sq ft and he's quoting about $1600 with taxes. His granite is only 2mm, so that was why I felt it was important to have the double stacked edges. Anyway, it came down to about $23 per sq ft. with the discount figured in. That seems awesome compared to everyone else!


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## weetabix

*GT estimate for small kitchen*

Hi all. Very interesting posts here.

I got an estimate from GT for my kitchen countertops -- about $3300. I have roughly 26 sq ft (actually a little less) of counter top. 

So, when I calculate it out, I nearly choked at the per sq ft. cost--roughly $127/sqft. 

But, I'm trying to understand the pricing because it's not a straight sq ft price. 
The plumber has to come out before the template, the install, and afterwards. That is a relatively "fixed" cost whether my job is big or small. But since my job is small, the plumber cost might register more per square foot on my estimate than it would on a 75 sq ft job.
I know the beveled edge is more expensive, let's say 10%, and the undermount sink installation is a cost separate from the countertop cost.
(maybe 10%?)

I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the pricing. 
It would be nice if it was just a "per sq ft" price, but other factors in the installation affect the cost, and maybe affect me more because the job is small. So, I don't think it's just the bottom line square foot cost.

I don't mind paying a bit more for quality. If I wanted bottom dollar counters, I know where to go. I DON'T want granite. I want the look, and the easy maintenance, and no worries ! But, I still think this price is steep.

Thanks in advance for any insight and perspective that you have about GT's estimate. I actually hope I can make this work, because I think I'd be happy with it. I just don't want to feel like I overpaid or was duped.


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## cdennis

*Granite Transformations*

We are in Ohio and we used Granite Transformations in our kitchen. We did our countertops and area between countertop and under cabinets. We also have a corner windows/sink area that we did all the way around the window to sofit. We could not be more pleased. We priced real granite and the GT and GT was less expensive and of course you don't get the "issues with GT" that exist with real granite. We got the plumbing thrown in for free and a discount on the sink AND faucet. The entire job was around $7K but again that included a giant amount of countertop (100 SF apps). I can't tell you how AWESOME the faucet alone is. Almost a commercial grade stainless so solid. The whole kitchen gets more comments even from folks that have seen it before, they will say "I just LOVE the kitchen". I'd be happy to answer any specific questions. I recommended GT to a friend but she lived in a different state and I gave her the link to their review on the Better Business Bureau for her state. I reviewed our GT for our state BBB. We had 2 slight issues BUT it really wasn't anyones fault. Issue one: The tile around the corner window was not cut to please the installer. I thought it was ok but he didn't like the way it fit SO he wanted them to redo it. A bit of a perfectionist! Issue two: They told me one day BUT when the installers were installing the tile around the corner window, they didn't want to STAND on the countertop to install around the window and it would have been required so the guy popped in a day later and did the small area around the window that he needed to get on the countertop for. They also finished underneath the countertop so it was completely smooth where they put the new over top the old. Hope this helps. Remember this was just our experience.


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## robynd

I live in Ontario Canada close to Hamilton and am looking for a very reasonably priced place for Granite or recycled glass does anybody have any suggestions?


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## EXGTinstaller

*Interesting claim*



Charles Weeks said:


> _I was just showing a friend of mine the info on Granite Transformations as she is getting ready to redo her kitchen and bath and after reading these posts I just have to respond! Our entire home has been redone by Granite Transformations in Bloomington, Il and we could not have had a better experience with each install! We have moved with our jobs over 5 times thru out the years and always had extensive remodeling done so we were used to problems and poor service but from day one our experiences have been perfect with Granite Transformaitons. We have had our countertops in the kitchen and the baths redone, our cabinets refaced and just finished having our out dated tub removed and replaced with a walk in shower. The material is so far superior to slab granite (which we have had in other homes) that any comparision to slab is rediculous. The refacing was a breeze and the change to our bathroom is stunning. We have found the pricing to be very competitive but the best part has been the company itself. _



As an EX lead installer with one of the three stores in the IL area, two of which ended up closing shop up with some very shady ethics and practices/taking bids on jobs, accepting down payments on those jobs, and then ran with the money from them. Only three franchises would have done your home that you have claimed here back in late 2010? The one I was with for around 4 years didn't even do Cabinet refacing for the first two years they opened. I know this for a fact, because I and the owner of the franchise went to the Class to become certified in Lead removal with the EPA, and was the only two that was certified to be on a job, which is a requirement when doing any home that is suspected to have Lead paint/or built prior to a certain date. I am also the only one from this franchise that ran Cabinet reface jobs 99% of the time. I am not saying you have lied with your reply.... but I find it to be highly suspect, and given more information from you on the dates of the install can prove if you are making false claims. 

The things that I have come across after working for GT in the four years off and on, (mostly due to lack of steady sales and employees being laid off) regarding ethics/quality of installs depending on who did the install are very interesting. :no: As for the product quality... It is just like many other products in the same class, it has it's + and -'s. The product itself is not "junk" as some have claimed...However, it does very much depend on not only the installers that come to your home on the day of install, it very much has to do with the fabricators that cut, glue, and polish out the job. From my experience, and what I have seen, this is done by mostly unskilled labor, making anywhere from $7.50-11 an hour tops. Raises were few and far between for these guys... even in some cases never received, even after a year of service, regardless of the quality of work they did or how much they stepped up. There was always a "carrot on a string" to get them to do more, and then followed by a reason to keep their pay so low. 

And yet the shop conditions of Silica dust everywhere, breathing it in day in and day out, working with edge glue... paint thinner to clean up the edge glue day in and day out.... was just sad! 

As for the Cabinet reface offered by GT.... the quality of the work done has a huge effect of the final outcome. IMO, run from it, it is junk. I would never choose to spend the very high amount of doing the reface work vs. replacing with brand new, higher quality cabinets. If anyone has any further questions to ask regarding GT, I will be happy to answer what I can. I am a employee that moved on to other things after giving proper notice. The things I have seen first hand in 4 years of running jobs, while it does not mean that all GT franchise owners act or run their franchise in such a manner, there are some that do. I was the type of employee that tried to not only watch out for my boss, but also watched out and had concern for the persons homes I was working in, and tried to look out for their interest also. 

I treated every job like it was my own home, and never let things fly that I myself wouldn't be happy with. If I had to, given the pressure placed on myself by my employer and another lead installer that got laid off and didn't get hired back after the first year, I would always voice my concerns, even if it put me at risk of "butting heads" with my boss... or put me at risk of loosing my job. I simply didn't care, I have standards, and I have never cut corners to make a "buck". Word of mouth will make or break a company... Its only a matter of time before this one is broke also.


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## n88740

This is for Johnny Larue former Granite Transformations owner. Is it ok for Granite Transformations to install their shower wall system over your existing shower wall tiles? What is your opinion of Swanstone shower wall kits from Home Depot? If you don't know what Swanstone shower wall kits are here is the website address. https://www.swanstone.com Thank You


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