# Can I still use cable ties to bundle together a run of wires in the basement



## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

Yes you can but try to keep minimal wires in the bundle


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

Another option that allows air to circulate around the cables is the Stak-it by 3M. Look near the bottom of page 5.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtlXT_nXT_EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

With 4 (?) or more for a distance more then 2' it's considered bundling & Code indicates you need to derate the runs
So the circuits would technically be capable of carrying less power
The issue is heat build up with multiple runs cable tied together


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## codeone (Dec 31, 2009)

For 2008 NEC, Article 334.80 for Ampacity of NM cable states.

Where more than two NM cables containing two or more current-carrying conductors installed, without maintaining spacing between the cables, through the same opening in wood framing that is to be fire- or draft- stopped using thermal insulation, caulk, or sealing foam, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be adjusted in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) and the provisions of 310.15(A)(2) shall not apply.
Where more than two NM cables containing two or more current-carrying conductorsare installed in contact with thermal insulation without spacingbetween cables, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be adjusted in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(2)(a).

Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) Adjustment Factors for More Than
Three Current-Carrying Conductors in a Raceway or Cable

Number of ---------------- Percent of Values in Tables
Current-Carrying ------------- 310.16 through 310.19
Conductors ---------------- Adjusted for Ambient
--------------------------- Temperature if Necessary
_________________________________________________
4 - 6 ______________________80
7 - 9 ______________________70
10 -20______________________50
21 -30______________________45
31 -40 _____________________40
41 and above__________________35
_________________________________________________

Being that you can use the 90 degree column for derating purpoes its not usually a problem with #14,#12,and #10 conductors untill you pass 9 current carrying conductors.
That would make 4 cables = to 8 current carrying conductors since the exception doesnt apply.
or you could have one of the cables be a three wire then 4 would equal 9 current carrying conductors and would be ok.

Sorry havent figured out how to get the Tables to look right. 

Now if you have a multiwire branch circuit you would not have to count the grounded (neutral) circuit conductor.

In your example of 6 x 12-2 would equal 12 current carrying conductors.
Now the NEC allows you to use the 90 degree column to derate from.
With #12 NM cable the 90 degree column is 30 amperes.
So 30 amperes for #12 x 50% = 15 amperes.
Now as you can see you would have to use a 15 Amp breaker on these #12s.


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## wolvpato (Jan 2, 2010)

*Thanks*

I will take all advice into consideration.


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## HandyPete (Mar 23, 2008)

Bundling is a real concern. I visited a house that burned down because the electrician did such a beautiful job in the attic. Unfortunately, too beautiful, the bundled cables became too hot under the insulation and started a fire.

If the cables you are talking about are in the basement (kinda cold) and not under any insulation, I believe the risks are minimal if you do a little bundling. keep in mind the code is written for broad coverage, Texas and warm attics give bundling a bad wrap (pun intended).

_pete


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

HandyPete said:


> Bundling is a real concern. I visited a house that burned down because the electrician did such a beautiful job in the attic. Unfortunately, too beautiful, the bundled cables became too hot under the insulation and started a fire.
> 
> If the cables you are talking about are in the basement (kinda cold) and not under any insulation, I believe the risks are minimal if you do a little bundling. keep in mind the code is written for broad coverage, Texas and warm attics give bundling a bad wrap (pun intended).
> 
> _pete


Nice story, but unlikely.


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## Big N8 (Oct 28, 2009)

Stats do show that the majority of fires start via fixed wiring in a home. So I think it is very likely that that could cause a fire. 

Bottom line is bundle with caution and know what your derated value is for the bundle. Neat ans tidy wiring can be done without bundling too many things together.


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