# Planting grass under old tree



## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

I would send a soil sample out for testing to see what you have and how to ammend the soil. I personally think you will be dissapointed trying to establish turfgrass there and would suggest you think about compatible ground covers instead.


----------



## billmilll5050 (Apr 29, 2011)

rightit said:


> We bought our house 1 1/2 years agao. There is an old a southern magnolia in our backyard that has an aproximate 35'-40' canopy. Given the accumulation of dead leaves and the age of the previous owners, the leaves were allowed to remain on the ground.
> 
> Last year, I got a few estimates for trimming the tree (haven't done it yet as there are so many priorites, including a garage to office conversion in process), which might allow a bit more sunlight to come through. It was suggested that the tree be 'fed' (that's for another post  ).
> 
> ...


looks like my yard .mine has moss ,i quess growning i took a hand airrater it had 4 prongs on it,went around jabbing the ground.so if grass ran when i watered ,it would fall in hole.i bought some seed grow anywhere,want 2 try (scotts EZ seed} wet \gtround ,put seed out ,the thing is the seed has to stay wet,I watered about 4 times a day ,untill i saw grass coming up i used a i think a 8 lb bag should have put more not as thick


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

sdsester said:


> I would send a soil sample out for testing to see what you have and how to ammend the soil.


Hi sdsester. Thanks for your remarks. A good idea, and something I hadn't considered. _Who would one send such samples to?_



> I personally think you will be dissapointed trying to establish turfgrass there and would suggest you think about compatible ground covers instead.


This is actually part of the plan, but the area requiring cover is a bit larger and of random shape than we would like. We are hoping that we can get grass to grow so that we can limit the scope and shape of the ornamental grass to our preference, which, as you state, may not be possible for the foreseeable future. 


Thanks again,
Mark


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

billmill5050 said:


> looks like my yard .mine has moss ,i quess growning i took a hand airrater it had 4 prongs on it,went around jabbing the ground.so if grass ran when i watered ,it would fall in hole.i bought some seed grow anywhere,want 2 try (scotts EZ seed} wet \gtround ,put seed out ,the thing is the seed has to stay wet,I watered about 4 times a day ,untill i saw grass coming up i used a i think a 8 lb bag should have put more not as thick


Thanks, billmill5050. I suppose it can't hurt to try, but I like the idea of sending a soil sample out, as this soil really appears to be depleted. Your method will likely come in handy after more is known. btw, how bad was your soil and how did your grass come out?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

rightit said:


> Hi sdsester. Thanks for your remarks. A good idea, and something I hadn't considered. _Who would one send such samples to?_


Not sure where you are but their should be soil testing labs around your part of the World. They will have the best insights about how to ammend things for your area. You might call your nearest University ag extension people to see if they might offer the services or provide you with a list of providers. Check with your local nursery too. If you cannot find anyone local and go online and you should find a number of places.


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks for the pointers!


----------



## root (Mar 31, 2011)

Growing grass under a tree is usually futile. Groundcover is the way to go.
It looks shady in that picture. Is that the way it is most of the day ?
Since you like the idea of soil tests...your state university will do that for a nominal fee. I know you dont like having a dust bowl in your back yard. But you cant have a tree(southern mag - the messiest tree ever) and a nice patch of grass. It is one or the other. I would go with the grass.


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

root said:


> Growing grass under a tree is usually futile. Groundcover is the way to go.
> It looks shady in that picture. Is that the way it is most of the day ?
> Since you like the idea of soil tests...your state university will do that for a nominal fee. I know you dont like having a dust bowl in your back yard. But you cant have a tree(southern mag - the messiest tree ever) and a nice patch of grass. It is one or the other. I would go with the grass.


 
Yes, it _is_ shady all day. And, I agree that southern magnolias are the mother of all leaf shedding trees (twice a year, in fact, and loads of leaves!). 

But the reality is that this tree (80-100 years old...) is a beautiful feature in our backyard, and if it's a choice between the tree and ground cover grass and plants or getting rid of the tree in favor of grass, it's a no-brainer here. The tree wins!

And thanks for the additional info on the soil sample tests. The truth is, given the info I've received here and elsewhere, it's likely that I'll just go ahead with the ground cover.

Thanks much for your ideas!

Mark


----------



## Ironlight (Apr 13, 2011)

You might want to consider making a feature out of a problem. You mentioned that you're interested in ornamental grasses but don't want ground cover over the whole area. Consider planting several different types of ground cover to create a terraced effect....tall ornamental grass transitioning into something lower like liriope and then into myrtle.

I agree that no matter what you do to the soil to improve it, grass will still struggle to grow there. It will certainly never be what I would call "luxuriant", given the dense shade. Part of the issue is that grass requires a fair amount of moisture, and big trees like that tend to have a network of smaller roots close to the surface which suck up lots of water. 

If it were me I would establish my grass and ground cover plantings and if I really wanted to try and get a bit of grass under the tree. I would till down where i was putting down grass at least 6" and enrich with whatever is required (likely limestone as I bet the soil is acidic there, and manure or some other nitrogen fertilizer), and then seed and straw it, keep it watered and protected as it sprouts, and see what happens. It will be a labor of love that is for sure. If it dies back then just extend your ground cover.

If you Google "soil testing" it should give you local results for your area.


----------



## billmilll5050 (Apr 29, 2011)

*ground hard*



rightit said:


> Thanks, billmill5050. I suppose it can't hurt to try, but I like the idea of sending a soil sample out, as this soil really appears to be depleted. Your method will likely come in handy after more is known. btw, how bad was your soil and how did your grass come out?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark


 it is hard and a lot of some kinda moss it came up kust didnt plant enough


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

billmill5050 said:


> it is hard and a lot of some kinda moss it came up kust didnt plant enough


Thanks for the update!

Mark


----------



## rightit (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks again to all the contributors to this thread. After considering what's been said here, the likelihood of getting normal grass to grow decently under the tree seems remote. We are leaning toward a dwarf species of monkey grass. There is some we planted last spring in that area that is surviving, but I'm wondering if there is something we can do (fertilize, add quality top soil?) to give the monkey grass a healthy environment without negatively impacting the tree? And does anyone have any 'secrets' for planting, spacing and maintaining? Anything I haven't thought of?

Thanks,
Mark


----------

