# why do dishwashers lose effectiveness?



## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

hmm mine was cleaning as good as a new when it finally died after 12 years of use (control board keyboard was defective), just need some cleaning to restore washing power


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## pjstock (Jul 23, 2012)

ahhh, I mean except for catastrophic failures like the control board failing. THAT is a binary failure like ovens and other.

i mean if it still seems to be working, churning, throwing water around, draining and yet still the dishes are coming out clean-clean.....


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

Compared to any other major appliance, there is only one major difference that I can see in this regard, and it is that you can hold a glass up to the light and see that it's lacking routine maintenance. If you don't clean out the lint trap on your washing machine you may get by or you may learn how much lint it takes to plug the drain. If you don't clean the dirt from under and behind refrigerator once a year or so you might get lucky, it might run for many years, and it might keep everything cold, but that doesn't mean it's running efficiently and costing you more in energy bills. And lots of people who neglected cleaning the dryer vent have stood in the ashes wondering what happened. Check your owner's manual or the manufacturer's website, and you will most likely find cleaning tips; if not, plenty of good advice online.


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## pjstock (Jul 23, 2012)

I had a typo up there. I meant to write:
"...churning, throwing water around, draining and yet still the dishes are NOT coming out clean-clean....."


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## pjstock (Jul 23, 2012)

so, you think it's just a question of routine maintenance? and that a reasonably maintained DW should run for longer than the 8-12 years Max that I've been reading?
I've been reading that a DW just has a natural life cycle, that it will lose "steam" over time and that there is nothing anyone can do to make it last longer.
i'd love to know that that is wrongheaded. I could then buy used for a fraction of new and expect good results.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

You want to buy a used dishwasher?
That's a pretty bad idea.
Do you need reasons why?


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

I have not noticed dishwasher degrading. I supposed if you are on hard water, orifices could get plugged. But your location is noted as Toronto --- I figure you must get your water out of the lake (which I am pretty sure is typically soft water).

I had a 20 year old dishwasher. Loud as heck. You could readily hear it at the far end of the house. But it still cleaned just fine.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I have owned a lot of dishwashers and they all worked fine until the day they died.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If you don't to a good job pre-washing your dishes, you can accumulate a ton of fat and food debris in the filters and plumbing. The holes in your spray arms can get clogged with food debris. Both of these can restrict the flow rate of the water. Lower flow rate, less cleaning (of the dishes).


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## pjstock (Jul 23, 2012)

dj3 said:


> You want to buy a used dishwasher?
> That's a pretty bad idea.
> Do you need reasons why?


Okay, I'll take your bait. Yes, I would like to know why you think buying a used DW is a bad idea.
People swap out appliances all the time, often for silly reasons. For instance They move into a new house and want stainless steel instead of the white DW already there. Or the make doesn't match the other appliances.

If I can find a used up-to-2-years-old say DW of a top brand in very good condition for $100 instead of $800, then i'm good with that.

Granted though, people also swap out appliances because they no longer work. I can test if something works. But I cannot test whether a DW is just worn out and lacking power.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

Read this, but don't let this one person's opinion stop you...

"Cheap Isn't Always A Bargain—And Other SMART Ways To ...www.smartliving365.com "


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## DanS26 (Oct 25, 2012)

pjstock said:


> Okay, I'll take your bait. Yes, I would like to know why you think buying a used DW is a bad idea.
> People swap out appliances all the time, often for silly reasons. For instance They move into a new house and want stainless steel instead of the white DW already there. Or the make doesn't match the other appliances.
> 
> If I can find a used up-to-2-years-old say DW of a top brand in very good condition for $100 instead of $800, then i'm good with that.
> ...


Buying a used DW.......just use your nose.....if it stinks don't buy it.


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## NeoHawk (Jun 13, 2020)

Just wanted to echo what Dexter II wrote. Might also check the lines, the spray arm openings for mineral deposits that impede water flow.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

First thing is to clean that filter.
It’s surprising how much difference it makes.


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## Marson (Jan 26, 2018)

I inherited a dishwasher in my current house that wasn't cleaning very well. Finally took the pump apart and it was all plugged with plastic bags, tooth picks, broken glass, etc. Cleaned a lot better after that, but then the pump went and it wasn't worth the 125 bucks for the part and I got a new one.


Here's a secret trick that I use...get a box of TSP, the real stuff, not phosphate free. HD's in my area have Savograns. Add a teaspoon to each load, right into the detergent dispenser. Use your normal detergent as well. Makes a big difference. I'd feel guilty, but one small box lasted like 8 months so it's a pretty small amount.


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## bfrabel (Oct 22, 2017)

pjstock said:


> Okay, I'll take your bait. Yes, I would like to know why you think buying a used DW is a bad idea.
> People swap out appliances all the time, often for silly reasons.


When I was a kid my dad brought home a used dishwasher, and shortly after our kitchen came down with a cockroach infestation.

How's that for a reason?


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Other than electronic failure, dishwashers have pumps that wear out and nozzles that can clog with mineral deposits depending on your water supply.
The latter can be resolved with regular cleaning. Fill a cup with vinegar and set in on the bottom rack and run the machine for a cleaning cycle.
The water will overflow the vinegar and allow it to circulate through the pump.
You may have to do that a few times for it make any noticeable change depending on how clogged up your machine is. Examine the rotating sprayers for evidence of whiteish deposits. That is a lime build up.
Clean it until it is gone.


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## StevenS (Mar 13, 2008)

We got an Asko dishwasher in 1992. It's still working today. One reason is that we have a water softener, which helps avoid mineral deposits.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Oso954 said:


> First thing is to clean that filter.
> It’s surprising how much difference it makes.


People don't do that weekly?

in a commercial kitchen you do it multiple times per day.


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## josephwallace (Aug 5, 2020)

By and large, yet that doesn't really mean 10 difficulty free years. Overview information from our individuals' encounters with in excess of 70,000 dishwashers uncovers that around 30 percent of all recently bought dishwashers are probably going to create issues or break inside the initial five years. 

So how would you get past 10 years without calling the fix fellow? Various elements can influence how long your machine will last—including how you care for your dishwasher. 

That is as indicated by our own in-house dishwasher master, Larry Ciufo, just as specialists from makers and fix professionals we requested exhortation on the most proficient method to take full advantage of these machines.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Oso954 said:


> First thing is to clean that filter.
> It’s surprising how much difference it makes.


Dishwashers have a filter?:glasses:


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## Dixon12 (May 3, 2016)

Running food grade citric acid on the longest and toughest cycle several times in a row helps get rid of mineral deposits. Same stuff is sold packaged as LemiShine. Or you can buy it for a fraction of the cost on Amazon. Fill the detergent cup, and throw a handful directly into the dishwasher. It can be used when washing dishes also.


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## That Guy (Aug 19, 2017)

Missouri Bound said:


> Dishwashers have a filter?:glasses:


Theres multiple filters, I believe mine have one on the inlet tho mine is a portable dishwasher


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

Missouri Bound said:


> Dishwashers have a filter?:glasses:


LMGTFY:


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

The GE Monogram dishwasher in my old house was around 17 or 18 years old when I sold the house. It was cleaning OK but not great, I think because the mesh screen filters were starting to break apart. So they weren't doing a great job filtering anymore, so you could say the breakdown was gradual, not sudden.

Come to think of it, that dang thing spent the entire 12 or 13 years I owned it breaking down in one way or another. In that time I did the following repairs:
-replaced the pump
-fixed a burnt power connection to the circuit board (by drilling a hole in it, inserting a bolt, and fastening the power connection to the board with nuts and some lock washers - lasted 10 years and running)
-installed a water hammer arrester
-replaced some gizmo called a venturi because it had a teflon washer that wore out; the upper spray arm wasn't rotating very well because of that worn washer (took me forever to figure out this was the reason the dishes weren't getting clean)
-replaced the detergent dispenser (had to buy a used one on ebay)
-replaced the little plastic roller wheels the baskets ride on. This one was epic. Step 1 was to have a heart attack when the lowest price I could find was $38 each (and I needed at least 8). Step 2 was to download a 3D printable design for a different wheel and spend hours figuring out how to change it to what I needed. Step 3 was to get the public library to 3D-print what I needed. Step 4 was to install the wheels, only to have them disintegrate after a few cycles. (The dishwasher environment is harsh.) Step 5 was to try out a different plastic from an online 3D printing company, only to have the same result. Step 6 was to try the glass-reinforced version of that plastic. Step 7 was to sell the house and move away, so I have no idea whether step 6 lasted more than a few weeks.

I think the moral of the story is that there are lots of little things that can go wrong that will result not necessarily in catestrophic failure, but just the dishes gradually getting less and less clean (filters disintegrating, teflon washer wearing out, detergent dispenser working only intermittently, etc). These take time and effort to debug and fix, but most people will just say "the dishwasher is starting to suck, let's buy a new one."

Ironically, given my insistence on repairing rather than replacing: in my new house there's a much newer Jenn-Air dishwasher, and it cleans remarkably well compared to the old one. I'm actually kicking myself a bit for not just buying a new dishwasher in the old house a few years in.


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Verify that it's getting enough water to fill completely. The fill period is timed and there is a float to prevent overfilling but nothing to keep it from timing out and running with insufficient water to wash properly. You may have a restricted water supply, either at the wall stop cock or perhaps a filter screen in the connector hose.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

For dishwashers to work with modern detergent, it needs a couple of things. 
First, it needs the temp to be at 120*. Also, make sure to run the hot water at the kitchen sink until it runs hot. 

Second, leave some food on the dishes, don't rinse them clean. Modern detergents need some food for the enzymes to work. And they will work. That is why modern dishwashers take longer to run. 

Three, make sure the filters are clean and a few times a year, run dishwasher cleaner through the dishwasher. Yes, they make dishwasher cleaner. Like they make clothes washer cleaner. Which I recommend people use on a regular basis as well. 

As for buying used dishwashers or appliances in general. You pay your money and you take your chances. I bought a wine fridge, thankfully I got it at a good price because it is only good for red wines. It only cools down to 58 degrees. 

The key to buying used appliances is to make sure they work and to make sure that you get them for a great price. Because, you won't get a warranty for them unless you buy them at a brick and mortar store.


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## StevenS (Mar 13, 2008)

ktownskier said:


> For dishwashers to work with modern detergent, it needs a couple of things.
> First, it needs the temp to be at 120°. Also, make sure to run the hot water at the kitchen sink until it runs hot.


The regular wash cycle in my 20-year-old-plus Asko dishwasher heats the water with its electric element (that it also uses to dry the dishes), and when the water reaches the optimal temperature, it then starts the timer for the cycle. It could probably be hooked up to cold water and still get the dishes clean, although it would take longer and use more electricity.


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## Two Knots (Nov 12, 2011)

We take out the filter on the bottom, maybe once a week...Our Whirlpool
very easily comes apart for cleaning, (no screw driver needed) 
And goes back without any parts left over. :smile:
Anyhow, a lot of grease clogs up the filters, and that’s the cause of it
not cleaning well...


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## Colbyt (Jan 27, 2014)

Those of us who live in hard water areas should use the citric acid or vinegar at least twice a moth to keep the pump and jetways clear of mineral deposits.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

not all dishwater have filters, the last one i had and the new i just buyed have no filter at all, they have a build-in food chopper


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

If you expect your dishwasher to also be your food waste disposal, you'll find it goes downhill over time. Certain food items are hard to run through a dishwasher... one of them is rice. Rice can plug the drain partially or completely causing the dirty water to be retained all the way through to the ending rinse. Rice can also plug spray arms.

You gotta pre-rinse to get the big chunks of tough food and rice off to give the dishwasher a fighting chance.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

surferdude2 said:


> If you expect your dishwasher to also be your food waste disposal, you'll find it goes downhill over time. Certain food items are hard to run through a dishwasher... one of them is rice. Rice can plug the drain partially or completely causing the dirty water to be retained all the way through to the ending rinse. Rice can also plug spray arms.
> 
> You gotta pre-rinse to get the big chunks of tough food and rice off to give the dishwasher a fighting chance.



Of course we empty big parts of food before we put it in the dishwasher but no rince, we didnt had any trouble whit the 12 years old dishwasher, we replaced it since since the keyboard button stopped working, it was still cleaning like it was new! (it did had a lot of rice in it over all the years)


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

How much pre-rinsing you need to do really depends on the dishwasher. Personally, I own a dishwasher so that _I don't have to wash dishes_. So I do the bare minimum - I just make sure there are no large chunks. And I'll briefly run a scrubber pad over a pan that I know won't get clean without some extra help (e.g., someone cooked scrambled eggs in it). If I needed to do more than that, I'd chuck out the dishwasher and get a new one.

Pre-washing your dishes is like cleaning your house before the cleaning lady comes. This is a practice my wife engages in, but not me, except when loudly harangued.


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## Druidia (Oct 9, 2011)

My DW is 17 YO and still cleaning very well. 

I have a plastic putty knife stationed at the sink to scrape off food from dishes etc. (even though the DW was a grinder). I don’t pre-rinse. 

Once a month, I run the DW with 2 c vinegar. I only started doing that a few years ago.

I haven’t had to replace anything major. The only thing I replaced was the door bottom gasket (? not sure if that’s the right term) more than 5 yrs ago. 

I did have to pull out the DW several years ago. The door was just falling freely when pulled open. I had to reposition the thick springs.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

carmusic said:


> not all dishwater have filters, the last one i had and the new i just buyed have no filter at all, they have a build-in food chopper


Out of curiosity, what brand is your new dishwasher?

The reason I ask is because from what I have read, all dishwashers will have one or more filters to remove food particles from the wash water during the cycle. These filters are typically self-cleaning, but under certain water conditions or detergent usage these filters can become clogged.


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Druidia said:


> I did have to pull out the DW several years ago. The door was just falling freely when pulled open. I had to reposition the thick springs.


The door on my GE DW is counterbalanced by a spring attached to a small gauge SS cable. The cable broke so I used a 1/4" o.d. copper tubing sleeve to rejoin it and crimped it with a T&B crimp tool thinking I'd get a new piece of cable and fix it right later. That was ten years ago and it's still working ok.

The plastic post that holds backups on the spring that pulls the detergent cup lid open broke loose from the plastic housing so I ran a screw into a nearby thick area of the plastic housing and hooked it up to that.

I suspect plenty of DW's get replaced when little stuff like that happens but I wouldn't scrap one unless some major component like the motor, pump or timer shot craps.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

*why do dishwashers lose effectiveness?*



maybe the filter needs cleaning \_(ツ)_/¯ maybe not


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

It's a conspiracy by filter manufacturers to grab some of your money. I've never owned a DW with a replacable filter... they aren't necessary. A simple strainer for the big chunks that's visible for the homeowner to see has always been enough. JMHO


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## Druidia (Oct 9, 2011)

SeniorSitizen said:


> *why do dishwashers lose effectiveness?*
> 
> 
> 
> maybe the filter needs cleaning \_(ツ)_/¯ maybe not



How many months did it take for that filter to look like that?


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

surferdude2 said:


> It's a conspiracy by filter manufacturers to grab some of your money. I've never owned a DW with a replacable filter... they aren't necessary. A simple strainer for the big chunks that's visible for the homeowner to see has always been enough. JMHO


I have never seen a replaceable filter in a dishwasher. And I have owned many different brands. All of the ones I have had just require cleaning if they get dirty. 

The worst dishwasher experience I had was when we rented a house in Eagle-Vail. The DW wouldn't clean well. I kept using DW cleaner and it would help a bit. I noticed after each cleaning that there seemed to be some paper residue in the filter. One day, with nothing better to do, it was snowing easy too much to even try to go skiing, I decided to do a deep cleaning of the DW.

I took it all apart while taking pictures. So I could put it back together and not have parts left over. I tried to run water through the spray arms and not much was coming out. I used some air in a can to help blow it back to the opening and I found it was clogged with paper. The prior renters must have washed paper plates in the DW!!

I got it all cleaned out and it ran great after that. I still cleaned out the filter for a while but it kept cleaning do much better. 

Dang furriners 😂


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Hey, we have plenty of dumb Murricans here who'd put paper plates in the d/w.


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

:vs_laugh: Now that's funny! Who would have thunk? Paper plates? They probably washed their paper towels in the washing machine too! :biggrin2:

As for my rant about DW filters, I should have said removable not replaceable but who knows, they may soon be equipped with replaceable ones. We can only wonder how many people don't read the instructions and end up buying a new DW when all they need to do is learn how to clean the filter they didn't know it had.

In that same vein, I find it hard to believe that furnace filters can cost as high as $20, maybe more for some. Perhaps they're made from recycled DW paper, which is somewhat scarce. :vs_laugh:

And I notice they have $40 water filters for refrigerators now. Of course they're made so that you won't be able to find a generic replacement so they have you by the short hairs. lain:

<end of rant> I feel better now. :smile:


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## snic (Sep 16, 2018)

It probably wasn't paper plates. I've sometimes put a glass jar in the DW - say, a salsa jar with a paper label. Sometimes the paper comes off, and it could very well gum things up if it disintegrates to just the right size to clog the filter and spray arms. After washing jars, I've pulled bits of paper that were clogging spray arm holes.

Of course, 2-3 months later, I forget about the previous paper fiasco and put another jar in the dishwasher. Until Elon gets me a neural implant, I suspect this pattern will continue.


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## traindoc (Aug 22, 2020)

Why do dishwashers lose effectiveness? I was the dishes at my house and I am just getting older.


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## ktownskier (Aug 22, 2018)

snic said:


> It probably wasn't paper plates. I've sometimes put a glass jar in the DW - say, a salsa jar with a paper label. Sometimes the paper comes off, and it could very well gum things up if it disintegrates to just the right size to clog the filter and spray arms. After washing jars, I've pulled bits of paper that were clogging spray arm holes.
> 
> Of course, 2-3 months later, I forget about the previous paper fiasco and put another jar in the dishwasher. Until Elon gets me a neural implant, I suspect this pattern will continue.


Judging by how much stiff there was, it did look like paper plates. When I mentioned it to the rental agent, they weren't surprised. 

I guess that they had rented it to 6 people but there were more than 10 people living there. They were there on J-1 visa's for the ski season.


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

traindoc said:


> Why do dishwashers lose effectiveness? I wash the dishes at my house and I am just getting older.


:smile: I know how that goes. :sad:
@traindoc When I first got married, I had a combination "biscuit burner" and dishwasher that worked lots better then the current ones. She's 80 now and has agreeably lost some of her effectiveness. Me too. :devil3:


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## surferdude2 (Nov 21, 2019)

Something to consider:

I figure if I'm going to be needing to run water to help the garbage disposal get rid of the scraps I dump down it, why not use that water to also rinse the dishes as I dump them. If that runs a little more water than absolutely necessary, I figure it's for a good cause since shorting a disposal on water when doing it's job is poor procedure, for more than one reason.


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## Druidia (Oct 9, 2011)

snic said:


> It probably wasn't paper plates. I've sometimes put a glass jar in the DW - say, a salsa jar with a paper label. Sometimes the paper comes off, and it could very well gum things up if it disintegrates to just the right size to clog the filter and spray arms. After washing jars, I've pulled bits of paper that were clogging spray arm holes.
> 
> Of course, 2-3 months later, I forget about the previous paper fiasco and put another jar in the dishwasher. Until Elon gets me a neural implant, I suspect this pattern will continue.



I’ve done this too. 

I’ve washed jars before with the labels. Then, one day, I saw water still left on the tub floor at the end of the cycle. When I took out the filter basket (under tub floor, by the pump), it was covered with large pieces of paper. 

I learned never to put bottles with labels in the DW.


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## J. V. (Jun 1, 2007)

My wife asked me to check the DW as it was not cleaning as good as it has in the past.
I figured a new one would be the final outcome?
Nope.
After a couple unsuccessful attempts at fixing it, I finally just started to remove things from the inside bottom. I figured what do I have to loose.

Well, inside deep in the recesses of this machine I remove a part and low and behold I find a screen! Was very hard to remove!
A screen with a propeller looking thing against it.
Turns out this piece is sold as "SS screen and chopper". The chopper spins against the screen to make small particles smaller so they can pass the screen.
I cleaned it and put it all back together.
Guess what. The DW cleans like new and I was the hero for a very short time.

I ordered the part in case it clogs again I can just replace it.


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