# Any ideas on how to build an outdoor subwoofer?



## DIYguy2000

Looking to build an outdoor subwoofer. Anyone have any ideas? I don't need it to be very large out of consideration of my neighbours, just something to pair up with my 80W outdoor speakers.

It will be on a covered deck (or under the deck on the ground, or between joists). Ideally I would build it passive, and have an amp (around 100-200W?) inside the house to power it. Looking at building it into a bench seat, or planter box perhaps to conceal it.

Just don't know where to begin to size the subwoofer, enclosure and what components are best for outdoor use, especially if I end up building a powered subwoofer (unless passive in my case is the only way to go?). Also looking for a 120V amp, most amps I find are for car stereos.

I could also buy one, but it may end up costing more vs. building myself? maybe not. Reason for the amp is that the receiver is only 130W, 65W per channel, so I didn't necessarily want to put the subwoofer on a crossover.

Thanks for the tips!


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## wkearney99

You're better off using decently sized speakers up on the wall instead. Let them push the bass.


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## mako1

Check out www.partexpress.com for components ,ideas and maybe something to just buy without all the hassle of trying to figure it out.
DIY is great but sometimes it's easier to just bite the bullet.


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## DIYguy2000

unfortunately I've already purchased the outdoor speakers from Monoprice, but am in Canada so returns are a hassle. Since the mini network receiver I have can only output 65W per channel, I'm not too sure how much bigger of a speaker I could put on the wall and if it would supply enough bass.

I checked out PartsExpress, but without much luck. They have a couple of outdoor subwoofer options, including this one: http://www.parts-express.com/tic-gs50-omni-directional-outdoor-subwoofer--302-129 which could work, and then pair it up with a 100W home theatre amp (still have to source one).

Or I could get a subwoofer plate amplifier (much easier to find) like this one: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa100-100w-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-802 and build a small enclosure for it to leave inside the house, and run speaker wire outside to a passive sub (either the one in the link above, or a DIY passive outdoor subwoofer). Does anyone see any problems with this type of setup? might be the cheapest option for an amp for a passive sub.


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## wkearney99

When you have the wrong stuff the solution generally is not found by adding more wrong stuff. 

Monoprice? At least they were cheap. Now go buy the right kind instead. The key being the size of the speaker. 

I've a set of Kicker KB600 on the patio and they deliver some pretty decent range. 
http://www.amazon.com/Kicker-KB6000-indoor-outdoor-Speakers/dp/B0051BS28A


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## DIYguy2000

I've had good products from monoprice before, including their 5.1 premium surround sound system, so I figured the outdoor speakers would be good too, even based on their reviews. They're alright, but just not enough bass.

I suppose I could always go into a big box store and pickup some different speakers to try out and return them if they don't sound any better.

Here are some options if you happen to have any sound-quality knowledge on these speakers:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=e725ae8c3035d5d0ad33094f2b11ba5aen02

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=07038e60c4af5d6cef08d109aee0d407en02

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=463200d02138da7c03de55e7a0bc7c6den02


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## wkearney99

It's all about the size of the larger speaker. Those first two are going to be just as weak as the ones you've already got.

Also note, the amp you drive it with will matter. A more powerful amp will drive it better without having to crank it up higher. I had my Kickers being driven from the 2nd zone of a Denon AVR. And then also direct from a Sonos Connect:Amp. The Denon allowed for more volume than the Sonos. But the usability sucked on the Denon (try getting the wife to do THAT dance with the Denon remote and zones... ugh). 

I'll be adding an in-line amp to the Sonos instead. I mean, by itself the Sonos does drive them well enough to for background music (with decent bass). But for cranking it up it does get a bit distorted. Totally not the speakers, as I did a direct comparison playing the same source Pandora channel (which isn't exactly what an audiophile would consider a quality testament, by any stretch of the imagination). But it did show the speakers can deliver some really decent sound and handle a fair bit of power.


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## DIYguy2000

I'll see if I can get a pair of the Kicker KB6000 then and try them out. I'm powering them from a Denon DRA-N5: http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?pcatid=cocoonipoddocks%28denonna%29&catid=networkmusicsystems%28denonna%29&pid=ceolpiccolodtns%28denonna%29

I wanted something small to keep in the kitchen (where I had to poke my speaker wires out to the deck), plus I'll be able to control it with an iPhone or iPad


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## mako1

I have to disagree about it "all being about the size of the speaker"I spent years building tube guitar amplifiers and have a degree in electronics.Although not a expert on speakers have used thousands.
It is more about matching the speaker to the power and the efficiency of the speaker.I have built 300W bass amps using a single 8"
speaker that sounded great.
Check out some of the micro cube amps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUeDU8kD5jk
I know this is a guitar amp but you get my point.


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## ktkelly

DIYguy2000 said:


> I checked out PartsExpress, but without much luck. They have a couple of outdoor subwoofer options, including this one: http://www.parts-express.com/tic-gs50-omni-directional-outdoor-subwoofer--302-129 which could work, and then pair it up with a 100W home theatre amp (still have to source one)..



That sub and the AudioSource AMP 100 should get you where you want, an do it on a tight budget.

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6


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## cj133

mako1 said:


> I have to disagree about it "all being about the size of the speaker"I spent years building tube guitar amplifiers and have a degree in electronics.Although not a expert on speakers have used thousands.
> It is more about matching the speaker to the power and the efficiency of the speaker.I have built 300W bass amps using a single 8"
> speaker that sounded great.
> Check out some of the micro cube amps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUeDU8kD5jk
> I know this is a guitar amp but you get my point.


Typically when I hear "subwoofer" I think low frequency bass, as in below 80Hz and I think loud. To me a subwoofer is a device that reproduces 20-80Hz in the neighborhood of 120dB. Don't think a single guitar setup falls anywhere near this category. In fact I've never seen a guitar setup that had what I considered to be a decent sounding speaker in regards to reproducing material properly. They are designed as part of the instrument and therefore must have a certain sound, this isn't something you want when reproducing material. Don't think I'm bashing guitar speakers/amplifiers, I'm not. I'm saying they are completely different animals. 

Not sure what the op is looking for but when I think "outdoor subwoofer" I'm not even sure where to start but I'm thinking 8 or 10 12" drivers fed with a ton of power. Maybe several 1KW amplifiers. Even then I don't see it producing low frequency very loud.

Anything done indoors often uses the room as part of the design, that's lost outside.

Maybe I'm way off in regards to what the op wants.


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## mako1

You are correct when speaking of guitar amplifiers.That's why I specifically spoke of bass amplifiers.The less thd the better for bass.
I simply disagrred with you saying the bigger the better .Not everyone wants to thump the neghborhood with 20-30hz at 120db.I don't think the OP wants to spend his nights in jail.
It would have helped if he would have given more info as to what kind of music he like to play but he did say he does not want to bother the neighbors.That gives me a clue .
I did a lot of sound for several different bands in my day and had a 8000W PA from triamped Crown power amps ,18" JBL subs and Yamaha mains with 15's and horns thru a 24 channel board.
Never went over 85db.
I understand the difference between live sound and stereo sound but you guys that think you need tons of power and large speakers to get a huge bottom end these days are just wrong.


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## cj133

mako1 said:


> You are correct when speaking of guitar amplifiers.That's why I specifically spoke of bass amplifiers.The less thd the better for bass.
> I simply disagrred with you saying the bigger the better .Not everyone wants to thump the neghborhood with 20-30hz at 120db.I don't think the OP wants to spend his nights in jail.
> It would have helped if he would have given more info as to what kind of music he like to play but he did say he does not want to bother the neighbors.That gives me a clue .
> I did a lot of sound for several different bands in my day and had a 8000W PA from triamped Crown power amps ,18" JBL subs and Yamaha mains with 15's and horns thru a 24 channel board.
> Never went over 85db.
> I understand the difference between live sound and stereo sound but you guys that think you need tons of power and large speakers to get a huge bottom end these days are just wrong.



Like I said, I don't know what he wants. I said what I imagine.
I also don't know where he is located. There are many people that can play loud music out side and don't have any neighbors close enough to hear it.


Keep in mind, no one ever hears my music. I'm extremely considerate when it comes to noise pollution.

"you guys that think you need tons of power and large speakers to get a huge bottom end these days are just wrong". 

We were talking subwoofers, nothing else. All of my setups have been relativity flat from 30Hz-12KHz in the rooms they were setup in. If anything I prefer more midrange than bass.


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## ktkelly

cj133 said:


> Not sure what the op is looking for but when I think "outdoor subwoofer" I'm not even sure where to start but I'm thinking 8 or 10 12" drivers fed with a ton of power. Maybe several 1KW amplifiers. Even then I don't see it producing low frequency very loud.



*Sonance LS87 SUB15 System. 
*

This system WILL go low, AND loud. But it does retail at $11,000.00 without installation....


You REALLY should here one of these systems. It's a serious experience.


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## mako1

ktkelly said:


> *Sonance LS87 SUB15 System.
> *
> 
> This system WILL go low, AND loud. But it does retail at $11,000.00 without installation....
> 
> 
> You REALLY should here one of these systems. It's a serious experience.


 This thread is really quite irrelavent in my opinion unless we know what type of music we are talking about. "WILL GO LOW AND LOUD" What are you listening to on it? Hip Hop-Rap,Country,Jazz.For that kind of money I'm sure it will do anything but I don't need that and I'm sure the OP does not either.I try to set up a system that will work well for the music I like.
I like jazz and blues which dictates a tight bottom end and clean top end but nothing that will bounce my house into the neighbors yard.


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## cj133

mako1 said:


> This thread is really quite irrelavent in my opinion unless we know what type of music we are talking about. "WILL GO LOW AND LOUD" What are you listening to on it? Hip Hop-Rap,Country,Jazz.For that kind of money I'm sure it will do anything but I don't need that and I'm sure the OP does not either.I try to set up a system that will work well for the music I like.
> I like jazz and blues which dictates a tight bottom end and clean top end *but nothing that will bounce my house into the neighbors yard*.



Years ago I swore when I finally owned my own house I would do an infinite baffle setup in the livingroom floor basically using the basement as my enclosure.

What I didn't foresee was having a wife that wouldn't allow it. :thumbsup:


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## wkearney99

Cripes, use the word speaker and the audiophiles come crawling out of the woodwork.


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## cj133

wkearney99 said:


> Cripes, use the word speaker and the audiophiles come crawling out of the woodwork.


I'm not an audiophile. Lost respect for that term years ago when people started using special cables and putting moon rocks on amplifiers.


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## mako1

Good points and I feel the same.I'm just a old electronic tech,guitar player,sound guy and gave it up a few year ago for the same reasons.Tired of dealing with the purists who took the fun out of it.


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## wkearney99

The acoustics on the average patio are often as bad as those on a boat. I've got speakers in both situations and have had to replace them more than once. As a result a bit of real-world experience has taught me a few things. 

Most importantly, don't overspend on brand names, it's not worth it. Mainly due to the way the outdoor environment is going to prematurely age them. Sure, indoors there's a lot to be said for some of the higher-end brands. Outside? You'd be wasting your money on nothing but a nametag, one that'll rot out just as quick as a cheaper brand.

Another being fidelity. What matters more is size of the speaker cone and the way it's mounted. Larger cones in a larger box will usually help push more bass. Much like engine displacement, there's no replacement for circumference. 6+" woofers are going to give you a better/deeper range than 4" ones. That and the larger ones will require a larger enclosure, likewise aiding in generating a more robust low end.

Yeah, there's a ton of science that can be applied to audio and speaker setups. But for a patio most of that is just going to be a waste of time and money.


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## cj133

wkearney99 said:


> The acoustics on the average patio are often as bad as those on a boat. I've got speakers in both situations and have had to replace them more than once. As a result a bit of real-world experience has taught me a few things.
> 
> Most importantly, don't overspend on brand names, it's not worth it. Mainly due to the way the outdoor environment is going to prematurely age them. Sure, indoors there's a lot to be said for some of the higher-end brands. Outside? You'd be wasting your money on nothing but a nametag, one that'll rot out just as quick as a cheaper brand.
> 
> Another being fidelity. What matters more is size of the speaker cone and the way it's mounted. Larger cones in a larger box will usually help push more bass. Much like engine displacement, there's no replacement for circumference. 6+" woofers are going to give you a better/deeper range than 4" ones. That and the larger ones will require a larger enclosure, likewise aiding in generating a more robust low end.
> 
> Yeah, there's a ton of science that can be applied to audio and speaker setups. But for a patio most of that is just going to be a waste of time and money.



For the most part I agree with this, except 4" drivers can produce just as deep range as any other. What matters is cone surface area, the excursion of the cone and how it's tuned to the enclosure. The enclosure is 100% just as important as the speaker as you said.

Fact is, assuming the same excursion and same style enclosure 9 4" drivers will produce the same exact output as a single 12" EXCEPT they will have far less breakup.

Two 12" drivers are a little less than a single 18" again assuming the same amount of excursion. The biggest problem with an 18" driver is the huge amount of breakup.

And just for fun,

a single 30" driver, such as a 1950s Electrovoice W30 is equal to 6 12" drivers.


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## wkearney99

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”


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## DIYguy2000

OP here, thanks for all this great discussion. 

Just to go back a little, although my audio setup will be on a deck, the one advantage I have going for me as far as a subwoofer or larger speakers to provide more bass is that it is a covered deck, about 16x12, and as against a corner of the house, so there is a bit of an 'enclosure' to contain the bass (if that makes much sense) - it's not wide open.

As for my neighborhood, it's a standard single family new-construction home, so roughly 50' wide lots, with neighbors behind, so I definitely don't want to spend my nights in jail due to noise complaints. We don't entertain much to be honest, so this outdoor speaker system won't be used much, and when it does it will be at fairly low volumes to easily speak over (the deck will have a conversation patio set, with a patio table/chairs beside the deck on a patio).

We listen to a wide range of music, including pop, alternative/classic rock, country.

The whole reason I started this thread is that when I plugged in the speakers I purchased they sounded fine, but didn't have much depth to the music. I hooked up my powered 200W monoprice subwoofer to the system and kept the volume level to about half (can't remember what frequency I set it to) and it sounded way better. It gave the music that extra bit of bass that I was looking for without making it too intrusive to the neighbors privacy (or so I hope). I know they say placing a subwoofer in a corner is a bad decision, but this is where I placed it as it's not a full enclosed deck. It also makes most sense in this location for layout. My wife (who was against the idea) and her father were there when I was testing it and both agreed it sounded much better with the subwoofer. My wife gave me "the look" and walked inside without saying much (she knew I was right :thumbup


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## cj133

DIYguy2000 said:


> OP here, thanks for all this great discussion.
> 
> Just to go back a little, although my audio setup will be on a deck, the one advantage I have going for me as far as a subwoofer or larger speakers to provide more bass is that it is a covered deck, about 16x12, and as against a corner of the house, so there is a bit of an 'enclosure' to contain the bass (if that makes much sense) - it's not wide open.
> 
> As for my neighborhood, it's a standard single family new-construction home, so roughly 50' wide lots, with neighbors behind, so I definitely don't want to spend my nights in jail due to noise complaints. We don't entertain much to be honest, so this outdoor speaker system won't be used much, and when it does it will be at fairly low volumes to easily speak over (the deck will have a conversation patio set, with a patio table/chairs beside the deck on a patio).
> 
> We listen to a wide range of music, including pop, alternative/classic rock, country.
> 
> The whole reason I started this thread is that when I plugged in the speakers I purchased they sounded fine, but didn't have much depth to the music. I hooked up my powered 200W monoprice subwoofer to the system and kept the volume level to about half (can't remember what frequency I set it to) and it sounded way better. It gave the music that extra bit of bass that I was looking for without making it too intrusive to the neighbors privacy (or so I hope). *I know they say placing a subwoofer in a corner is a bad decision,* but this is where I placed it as it's not a full enclosed deck. It also makes most sense in this location for layout. My wife (who was against the idea) and her father were there when I was testing it and both agreed it sounded much better with the subwoofer. My wife gave me "the look" and walked inside without saying much (she knew I was right :thumbup



Who says that? Not me. :thumbsup:
I always aim for a corner my self. I also love folded corner horn loaded woofers like the EV Patrician 800 and Klipschorn.

I've also done a trick where I put the subwoofer where I'm going to sit, play a test tone at maybe 25 or 30Hz and then go around the room and see where it's loudest and then put the subwoofer in that spot.

IMO it sounds like you know what you want and I see no reason not to go for it. The only important thing is that the setup does what you want it to.


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## wkearney99

Yep, that's pretty much the same sort of setup we've got, save for the patio not being covered. The KB600's are aimed down toward the seating and do provide sufficient low-end to enjoy the same genres you mention, at least for us. At a party for 150 people last month we had them going after the band left. There was enough sound to enjoy the music without drowning out conversations.

There are outdoor subwoofers (like the Polk Atrium) but their expense and necessary added wiring and amp (or AC power) seemed a bit much compared to just better on-wall speakers. That and I don't have a particular place where one would fit into the decor.

My other concern was maintenance. As I've mentioned, having speakers outdoors makes them a maintenance item. The placement for most subwoofers puts them in a bad place outdoors. Attractive to infestation, exposed to surface cleaning (water from the pressure washer) and out of the sunlight (ripe for mold). I've lived long enough to regret plenty of cool ideas that were more work to maintain than the purported 'benefits'.


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