# WHICH caulk/adhesive/silicone for installing exterior doors?



## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Something I can get at Home Depot/Lowe's. I'm driving myself crazy. I thought I was going to do the right thing and get silicone based because I thought I had determined from reading that it would be better used on an unpainted exterior application. Then I read that it will not adhere to wood?

Everything I read says, "CAULK THIS, CAULK THAT, CAULK HERE, CAULK THERE" but nothing says what kind and I'm getting incredibly frustrated. 

What specific product should I be using to seal my Jamsill to my OSB? 

What specific product should I use to seal my brickmold cased french door around the perimeter?

I've spent a couple hours reading and I'm only further confused. I thought this OSI Quad would work but then I read on it _should not be used at a thickness/depth of less than 1/4"_, so I don't think that is going to work either.

Thank you.

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/making-sense-of-caulks-sealants.aspx


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you really have a plastic jamb sill or is that a typo and you just have a threshold?
http://www.jamsill.com/images/downloads/Jamsill_Guard_Installation.pdf
I only use Alex 230 for trim.
50 year warranty
Water clean up
Tools great.
If there's big gaps use round foam to fill in then caulk.
Biggest mistake people make is using to much caulk. Makes no since to apply to much and have to go back and wipe it all off.
It does not to be all over the face of the trim and just looks like poop.
Only needs to fill the gap.
Get yourself a bowl of warm water.
Apply the caulk, wipe with a finger, clean off your hands in the bowl and use a stiff sponge dipped in the water to wipe the caulking smooth.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I have the real deal authentic plastic Jamsill that I ordered. I have their instruction sheet you linked, but that says "caulking". 

So this Alex 230 would be appropriate in all these locations I mention to include in the area behind the brick mold?

EDIT: 

Apply in temperatures above 40°F (4,44 °C). 

Do not apply if rain or freezing temperatures are forecasted or before full cure can occur. Cold weather and 
high humidity will slow down cure time.

It's 31° out. Matter? I can't imagine people stop building houses because it's cold out.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Silicon goes under the Jamsill but not under the threshold to Jamsil area.
I use nothing but the Alex 230 for all the inside and outside trim.
Someone may suggest something like Geo seal or some other solvent based caulking but there miserable to work with and you have to use a solvent to get the extra off.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

joecaption said:


> Silicon goes under the Jamsill but not under the threshold to Jamsil area.
> I use nothing but the Alex 230 for all the inside and outside trim.
> Someone may suggest something like Geo seal or some other solvent based caulking but there miserable to work with and you have to use a solvent to get the extra off.


Silicone meaning Alex 230? Or something different? Nothing between Jamsill and threshold?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Alex 230 is latex, not silicone. Alex is not used under the Jamsill, use silicone between the flashing under the Jamsill and the bottom of the Jamsill.
If you used anything under the threshold the Jamsill would be useless. It will just trap in moisture. The whole idea is to get the water to run back outside, not get dammed up under the threshold.
There's was supposed to be a sticker right on the Jamsill and I included the directions in another post from Jamsill stating no caulking between the threshold and the threshold. 
Please bring up the web site I posted from Jamsill. It shows the flashing and how and where to caulk.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

That makes sense. I misread the directions on the Jamsill; there is only one bead at the very back on the top of the Jamsill it looks like. Reading goes a long ways eh!

First up: Trimming back my siding to clear the brick mold.

Is there a write-up anywhere to your knowledge that explains how to flash the sides of the opening? I have an idea but nothing specific. 

Thank you.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Now you have me scared.
What siding are you "trimming back"?
What type siding do you have?


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I scare myself too. Vinyl siding. 

Brick mold is 74" outside to outside. Vinyl opening is roughly 72".


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The siding comes off, not gets cut back.
If you just cut it back there's no way to wrap the opening, Seal behind the nailing fin, add a Z moulding above the door or add the J moulding correctly.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't have a nailing fin...hmm. I will post a couple pictures of everything when I get home in a little while.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

OK here we go. I could not find Z-molding large enough to wrap over the edge of the brick mold. I do have J-molding though, and grabbed a smaller piece of the Z-molding just in case. My house is not wrapped. I also have a ~2' overhang over this door.




























































I watched some videos and read up on installing vinyl. Not sure how to get a short piece between a corner and a J. Angle it?












Right stuff?


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 25, 2011)

i use mulco flex 9000, in my experience the alex brand of caulking is absolute garbage for exterior uses.. the only time i buy alex calking is dap for interior trim

quad is a really good caulking as well


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Uh oh. Are we going to have a caulk-off?


Wait. Something about that doesn't sound right.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

joecaption said:


> The siding comes off, not gets cut back.
> If you just cut it back there's no way to wrap the opening, Seal behind the nailing fin, add a Z moulding above the door or add the J moulding correctly.


I've made a lot of bad decisions in my life. I hope this is not another one. 

Why does something tell me the first thing I'm going to do is pop the nails on the outside corner and put a barrier (Tyvek etc.) up.

Need to pull the light off tomorrow in order to get that last piece off.











The sheathing does not come all the way down to the top of the opening. Any good reason why? I assume I'm going to need to do something there.
























Oh hell. "Hmmm, while I'm there, that window needs to be replaced." Must. Not. Let. This. Snowball.



































Look at the width of the edge piece. What was it, an afterthought?:huh:












Something tells me there's some stuff missing. I can't get in over my head with this though.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I see a bunch of issues.
#1, Someone installed the siding then installed the soffit material which is backwards. It can cause the siding to buckle because it can not expand and contract. (I may be wrong just hard to tell from the picture.)
If the soffit is just sitting on top of a piece of J moulding where it meets the house the soffit material can lift up in a wind and make noise and tend to look wavy when it gets hot out.
#2, Your right someone cut that sheathing wrong or at some point installed a shorter door and added another 2 X 4 under the header. (could even be that there was just a passage door there and some DIY added the slider)
#3, No clue why they added shims under the J moulding around that window, Is that J moulding 5/8" and not 1/2", does not even look like J in that picture? And there's no window tape used around it. If you do order a new window get one with built in J molding.
#4 That deck railing post never should have been installed that close to the side of the house. You should not have to run the siding around it, it should have been installed behind it instead.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I went through and blew up the pictures from bottom post on the first page. For some reason Google Images only lets you post pics the size of the screen you are on. I was on my laptop; now my desktop, so you can click them bigger to see more detail.


This house should have been on _DIY Disaster_ with all the crap these previous owners did. I don't think I want to get into a window too. Some bad weather is coming and I want to get this buttoned up.

#1 - Too much to fix right now if it's backwards. I haven't noticed any issues in the 7 years I've been here, so it _should_ be OK. "Rental ready" is the goal. I did notice they face-nailed the very top of the top piece of siding to attach it. Pretty sure that's not right. Hard to get good pics at night, not much contrast. I'll look again today.

#4 - Too much to fix there too. I'm just going to have to work with what I have. 

I will say the old door was installed horribly. Slider, NO flashing, and it didn't leak. So anything I do here will at least be an improvement.

So, without getting crazy, how should I proceed next?

I still don't know how to properly flash the brick mold. I can't find anything anywhere. Do I need a wide Z for the top of it?

I assume I need to cut a small piece of sheathing to fill in that narrow gap at the top of the door.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Looks alright I think.












Off to go get a piece of 7/16" OSB to fill in that small gap at the top.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I found the correct drip cap I believe. I was looking to figure out how to install it relative to the side J-molding.

Then I saw this:
http://www.house-improvements.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=480



Shannon @ House-Improvements.com said:


> If you are using a drip cap it should be installed between the side J's and the top J. The drip is notched and folded like you mention and the top J is notched completely out on the bottom edge from each outer end right to the notch in the drip cap.* You can only leave out the drip cap if you have a 2' soffit over hang and the top of the window is within 12" or less of that over hang. In that case you can leave out the drip cap if you like and mitre the J's.*


Do I need a drip cap?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Since the top of that door is so close to the over hang I feel you could get away without it. If it was my job I would still use it because it's the "right" way to do it.
In that picture where your hand is pulling back the J moulding the way I do it is install a piece of utility trim up side down inside the J. When installing the top piece of siding I punch it with a snap lock tool.
http://www.amazon.com/Malco-SL5-Vin...id=1385408356&sr=8-1&keywords=snap+lock+punch
That way the top piece snaps into place and no nails are needed plus it can still expand and contract.
Everyone else uses silicone in the seam, or trim nails in the weep holes.
Never once have I had to go back and put the top piece back in like other people have to.
I'll see if I can find you a video on how to cut that J that trims out the brick moulding. It's easy to do if you've done it a couple hundred times just hard to explain.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=928F86867587184B9C93928F86867587184B9C93


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The J was done OK where the soffit meets the wall, just looks like there's not near enough nails in it. Should be at least ever 16" or it will sag or look wavy.


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## iminaquagmire (Jul 10, 2010)

Wrap your opening in the vinyl flashing starting at the sill. Do the sill, make sure your corners are covered and overlapped. Wrap the sides next over the sill piece. Some people wrap the top and some don't. Never used a Jamsill but that should go next I believe. The next thing is the sill sealant. Some people use thick silicone beads and some use the rope method where you roll up your vinyl flashing into a long sticky roll and place two lengths across the sill. Your door sets on those and seals the bottom. I've done it both ways. When you place the door, run a thick bead of silicone around the outside of the opening for the brick mold to set into. Once the door is all set and secured, put your head flashing on top. There is no caulking to be done once the door is in place.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks for the info Joe!

So far, so good. I own 4 halogen lights, two of them are a dual-head/dual-bulb unit. Every single one does not work (No it's not the outlet. :laughing: ). I'm DONE with halogen. I need to go buy a new work light. Tired of having to put new halogen bulbs in every time I want to use a light.

So far everything is going well with the sill and flashing. Ran out of light though (see above).

Instructions only call for a single 3" screw at each hinge. I imagine it needs more screws than that.

iminaquagmire, Jamsill instructions only call for a single bead of sealant at the back of the sill and along the glue joints. Joe kind of beat that into me. :laughing:

Is there any reason to face nail/screw the brick mold to the house?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

How else would you do it. You never want to nail it to the door frame.
I use 3" long galvanized nails in predrilled holes.
I also use PVC in the corners on toward the back part of the joint and pull the corner together with a trim head screw. That way it's never going to open up.
Hinge? I thought it was going to be a slider.
If this is a French door it should have came with a plastic bag of screws stapled to the side of the door. The hinges should have blank hole with no screw, that's where the three screws come it.
Predrill the clearance hole in the door jamb and just a pilot hole in the rough opening.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Yeah, french door. So only 3 screws per side? Anything up top? I read some stuff saying not to screw into the header.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

No screws at the top.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

Got it. It's been a long day, but there's a door in the hole now. Was it worth it to DIY, I'm not sure. It took me a really long time. On the time vs. money scale, I "wasted" _a lot_ of time. I did learn some new things though which is what I like to do. Box stores charge $430 I believe to have a contractor come out and do it. I don't know how much a regular contractor charges for this. Given my experience with contractors, they set a time on how long something should take, and do what they have to do to make it work in that amount of time. I'm sure the RIGHT one would have taken the time, and, charged appropriately...and in that regard it may have been worth my time.

Eh, it's been a long day and I'm rambling. Tomorrow is another long day of fixing my caulk mess and learning vinyl siding. :laughing:


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## iminaquagmire (Jul 10, 2010)

You have made out in the end by far. Just because they say in their advertisement or whatever that they will install it for that, doesn't mean they won't find any extras to tag on. That's usually the case. Or they really do charge that but the carpenter they hire might get 300 and is ok with it because they are a hack.


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## Dave88LX (Nov 10, 2011)

I was kind of at least hoping that. I imagine their $430 is the "base price assuming nothing else needs to be done". I don't see any way of doing mine correctly without doing the extra work that I did, especially with french doors.

So amazingly they are in, open, close, and don't drag or rub.

I really missed the mark caulking the outside.
Caulking the corner between the jamb and the brick mold was a waste. I should have just ran the bead along the house on the edge of the opening, right?
I have a length of vinyl 1 x 4 and 3/4 x 4 to support under the threshold along with 3" stainless screws to still put on.
Should I stuff some backer rod in the vertical corners running up the jambs, hit it with caulk from the outside, and great stuff from the inside?

I bought the $676 door at Lowe's. I'm sure it's one of those "get what you pay for" types of things.


The pins that lock into the top jamb and bottom threshold are tiny. Still trying to figure out if they are plastic or metal.
The innermost screw on the top latch is aligned to go into the drywall.
The brick mold was installed TERRIBLY. Did they even bother to try?
I see daylight through the gap between the doors at the very bottom. There's a rubber flap that covers the opening, I guess that's supposed to help.
The recesses in the inside edge where the latch assembly faceplate goes was too shallow, I had to deepen that some. That may just be a characteristic of the lockset I bought though.

Is it me or is Peel & Seal garbage? It wasn't even sticky or tacky. Maybe I'm supposed to use an adhesive with it. Regardless, I couldn't get it to work so I had to modify my flashing plan by using more of the Pella 3" tape that I had. I couldn't find anything wider locally that wasn't Peel & Seal. Next time I'll order something worthwhile ahead of time.

On a regular door, it's customary to replace the strike plate screws with longer ones. Is it the same on a french door? I don't think it'll matter. If someone wants in they're getting in.




Well, it's a door!












I don't know if you can see how bowed the brick mold is. Absolutely no excuse for this. If I was staying in this house, I would probably pull all the brick mold off and redo it, or use some sort of vinyl. My current conflict is if I should install the J-channel straight and fill the gap or what. I don't like taking shortcuts, but I don't have time to get crazy either.




Front screw in the drywall.












I need some practice. What is right/wrong so I know for next time? 

This was the only door in stock and the bottom of the weatherstrip there had a small break in it. 10% off, I figure I can fix it for $67 or it may not even matter.












Is daylight at the very bottom corner OK or not? Part of me says it's for draining and it's on top of the Jamsill so nothing will come of it.










I know the flashing doesn't need to go on the drywall. :laughing: It was just somewhere to put the extra.


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