# Suggestion for back up sump pump



## handyflyer (Jan 12, 2007)

Home depot. The watchdog system from them. It is a full size 1/4 horse pump that is driven by either their DC battery or a/c plugin. Have had it for 2 years. Love it. It can be used as the primary pump if you want. Total cost is around 650 when you get the battery but it is worth it.


http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100065446


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## detroti_fan (Feb 4, 2009)

Can i ask why you would suggest a battery back up instead of a water pressure model?


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## handyflyer (Jan 12, 2007)

Easier to install. I also shut off my main water supply when ever I leave for a couple days cause of fear of a pipe bursting when I am gone. The water pressure model won't work that way.


detroti_fan said:


> Can i ask why you would suggest a battery back up instead of a water pressure model?


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

detroti_fan said:


> Can i ask why you would suggest a battery back up instead of a water pressure model?


Consider also that some may be on well water, which of course, won't work unless they have a automatic standby generator during a power outage whereby then you most likely won't need a backup unless you fear a primary pump failure.

I have the mid level Basement Watchdog as the backup right now. It has a backup float safety switch which I'm not too crazy about. It requires even more of a clearance height in the sump pit in order to activate.

Also, the battery powered system requires routine maintenance where initially, you have to fill with sulfuric acid, and replenish off and on with distilled water.


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## detroti_fan (Feb 4, 2009)

Is this a good system also? Its a little cheaper but made by the same company. I have a few marine and rv deep cycle batteries, can i use those for the battery? Also, when the alarm sounds to let you know it's working, can you turn the alarm off or will it keep going the entire time the power is out?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...3&productId=100067307&N=10000003+90401+502426


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## Winchester (Aug 27, 2008)

handyflyer said:


> Easier to install. I also shut off my main water supply when ever I leave for a couple days cause of fear of a pipe bursting when I am gone. The water pressure model won't work that way.


I do the same. I installed the Wanye Reliantone from Lowes  so far so good. Has worked every time I've tested it. Was installed late December of last year after an incident prompted a back-up system. I'll give it a little more time before submitting my review.



> I have a few marine and rv deep cycle batteries, can i use those for the battery? Also, when the alarm sounds to let you know it's working, can you turn the alarm off or will it keep going the entire time the power is out?


 I chose not to buy the Wayne battery that was available at Lowes and opted for a deep cycle marine battery from NAPA. I believe with mine, if the power is actually out, the alarm will only chime for 30 sec. As not to drain the battery but to inform you of the current power situation.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

detroti_fan said:


> Is this a good system also? Its a little cheaper but made by the same company. I have a few marine and rv deep cycle batteries, can i use those for the battery? Also, when the alarm sounds to let you know it's working, can you turn the alarm off or will it keep going the entire time the power is out?
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...3&productId=100067307&N=10000003+90401+502426


This is the one that I have. I don't think you'll be able to use a separate battery for this system because this system is designed where it constantly monitors the state of the battery via a probe that's inserted into the battery, and will alarm if not functioning properly.

You cannot shut the alarm off permanently.


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## majakdragon (Sep 16, 2006)

One bad thing I have heard about water powered back-up pumps is the amount of water used to operate the pump. I have heard it was 3 to 5 gallons of water to pump out one gallon from the sump. A lot would depend on where you are pumping the sump to.


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## handyflyer (Jan 12, 2007)

Not sure about this system but with the top of the line one you can silence the alarm for 24 hours if you want. I went with their battery so I can make sure the computer can monitor the proper battery it was designed for. Not that much more when you consider I spent $20,000 finishing the basement and 6 months of my life.


detroti_fan said:


> Is this a good system also? Its a little cheaper but made by the same company. I have a few marine and rv deep cycle batteries, can i use those for the battery? Also, when the alarm sounds to let you know it's working, can you turn the alarm off or will it keep going the entire time the power is out?
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...3&productId=100067307&N=10000003+90401+502426


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

majakdragon said:


> One bad thing I have heard about water powered back-up pumps is the amount of water used to operate the pump. I have heard it was 3 to 5 gallons of water to pump out one gallon from the sump. A lot would depend on where you are pumping the sump to.


On "This Old House," they installed a water powered system one time and Richard made a great point in that 3-5 gals of water being used (which is rare to begin with for a backup pump) is better than 1 gal of water filling your basement.


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## detroti_fan (Feb 4, 2009)

I went shopping today at some of the stores, lowes, hd, menards ect...
I found a product called the sump buddy by bur cam. It is water powered and sems to get pretty good reviews. It's only $100 at the stores i mentioned, seems like its worth a shot. The battery units look nice, but for $100 this might be an easy and inexpensive way to ease my mind. I think it uses 2 gallons to pump out 1, but i don't expect it to run unless i'm in bad situation anyways, so i could really care less about water waste. I have all copper pipe and can tap into it before any other fittings, so install shouldn't be to bad. I posted a link to the manu site if anyone is interested.

http://burcam.com/burcam.asp

https://secure.burcam.com/fichiers/instructions/anglais/300402.pdf


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

detroti_fan said:


> I went shopping today at some of the stores, lowes, hd, menards ect...
> I found a product called the sump buddy by bur cam. It is water powered and sems to get pretty good reviews. It's only $100 at the stores i mentioned, seems like its worth a shot. The battery units look nice, but for $100 this might be an easy and inexpensive way to ease my mind. I think it uses 2 gallons to pump out 1, but i don't expect it to run unless i'm in bad situation anyways, so i could really care less about water waste. I have all copper pipe and can tap into it before any other fittings, so install shouldn't be to bad. I posted a link to the manu site if anyone is interested.
> 
> http://burcam.com/burcam.asp
> ...


My question after looking at the PDF file is when does the backup float initiate relative to the float of the main pump. You really don't want the backup pump to run if there is power to a perfectly functioning primary pump.

With my battery backup system, I have to place the float above the max possible height for primary pump's float. That way, if the sump pit fills and that water in the sump pit goes above the max height travel for the primary's float, only then will the backup float start to move up.

From the PDF file, the backup pump's float looks huge and is placed so low, and it looks like it might initiate quickly.

I didn't read that this backup has any sort of relay switch where it would only activate if the house loses power.

Also, an important question is what is the max flow rate of the pump relative to a batter powered version.

My mid level backup can handle 1730 gal/hr at 10ft height.

http://www.basementwatchdog.com/basement_watchdog_special.htm


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## detroti_fan (Feb 4, 2009)

handy man88 said:


> My question after looking at the PDF file is when does the backup float initiate relative to the float of the main pump. You really don't want the backup pump to run if there is power to a perfectly functioning primary pump.
> 
> With my battery backup system, I have to place the float above the max possible height for primary pump's float. That way, if the sump pit fills and that water in the sump pit goes above the max height travel for the primary's float, only then will the backup float start to move up.
> 
> ...


The float switch posistion is adjustable, so you can raise it up so it doesn't kick on under normal operation. It won't only operate if the house loses power, but if the water gets high enough in the sump to activate the float switch the power must be out or water is coming in so fast i need both working. At 60psi water pressure it will pump [email protected]', [email protected]' and [email protected]'. My head is only about 5 feet, so 600gph should be ok for my application. The main thing that stops me from getting the watchdog is having to use their battery. I have read a lot of reviews where people say it keeps going bad within 2 years, i don't really want to have to pay $100+ every 2 years to buy a new battery. If it would accomodate a normal deep cycle battery i might go for it.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

detroti_fan said:


> The float switch posistion is adjustable, so you can raise it up so it doesn't kick on under normal operation. It won't only operate if the house loses power, but if the water gets high enough in the sump to activate the float switch the power must be out or water is coming in so fast i need both working. At 60psi water pressure it will pump [email protected]', [email protected]' and [email protected]'. My head is only about 5 feet, so 600gph should be ok for my application. The main thing that stops me from getting the watchdog is having to use their battery. I have read a lot of reviews where people say it keeps going bad within 2 years, i don't really want to have to pay $100+ every 2 years to buy a new battery. If it would accomodate a normal deep cycle battery i might go for it.


Here are some points:

* I don't know if you've attempted to install this new pump just yet, but you might want to check how deep your sump pit is. If your current pump has a tethered float, you might have to get rid of it for a vertical float model. A tethered float design usually initiates only when water is about 14" high, while a vertical float will go at 8".

The former design also usually results in your drain tile filling up water before the pit level actually hits 14". There's very little height available past the 14" before you hit the sump cover.

* I had my previous mid level backup pump with the 6.5 hr battery for 4 years and had no issue with the battery.

* I currently have a 7.5 hr battery and haven't had any issues beyond normal topping off with distilled water.

* If you're counting on the future where both pumps might have to run at the same time, you might want to consider running a dedicated outlet for the backup pump. When both pumps are running, only one will actually pump water if the piping is Y'd together.


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## joemel (Feb 16, 2009)

Can the motor blow out in a sump pump if it is constantly on due to the large amount of rain filling it up? and is it normal for the sump pump to be on constantly and alot of water draining out all the time? but anyways, Just read about an "asperator" based back-up sump pump......operates on household water pressure,pumps two gallons for every one gallon of household water.
______________________________
How to install a french drain


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

joemel said:


> Can the motor blow out in a sump pump if it is constantly on due to the large amount of rain filling it up? and is it normal for the sump pump to be on constantly and alot of water draining out all the time? but anyways, Just read about an "asperator" based back-up sump pump......operates on household water pressure,pumps two gallons for every one gallon of household water.
> ______________________________
> How to install a french drain


Supposedly, sump pumps are so unpredictable that they can "go anytime."

But, a sump pump is more likely to "blow out" if it's running with no water, meaning if the float gets hung up and the sump well is empty.


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## jefferee (Mar 7, 2009)

*Bur Cam Sump Buddy*

I just installed the Bur Cam Sump Buddy last weakend. You really have to view this system for what it's meant to be...a back up system. That being said, it's a nice little system. It works both if your power is out, and if your primary pump fails. It is meant to be installed so that your primary pump, when working, will activate first. Under normal conditions, your Sump Buddy will not activate. 

There are a few things to consider. First, as stated earlier, do not get this system if you draw your water from a well. This system only runs on municiple water supply. The only fault in the system I can see has to do with the shut off valve. Unfortunately, it isn't always just fully "off" or fully "on". It can be partially on, allowing miniciple watter to trickle through the system until the water in the sump well rises high enough to fully activate it. However, when partially on, there isn't enough water pressure to activate the Sump Buddy...which means wasted water. Again, this is a minor problem when you consider that this is a back up system, "wasting" a few gallons of water is still cheaper than a basement full of water or a lifetime of buying and maintaining batteries for a battery back up system.


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## Pumpguy (Jun 26, 2009)

detroti_fan said:


> Can i ask why you would suggest a battery back up instead of a water pressure model?


I have the same question. I am new to this site so I had not seen this question till now. The water powered backup sump pumps known as Basepump are very reliable, take only one gallon of city water to remove two gallons of sump water and will run as long as city water is available. The pumping rates they give on their web site are quite accurate and their warranty is three years! Here's the link to the site: www.basepump.com


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## Pumpguy (Jun 26, 2009)

handyflyer said:


> Easier to install. I also shut off my main water supply when ever I leave for a couple days cause of fear of a pipe bursting when I am gone. The water pressure model won't work that way.


I just have to say that a water powered system can be installed with its own dedicated line and an additional shutoff valve after the tee-in point. Then the rest of the house can still be shut off while you leave the branch to the pump on.


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## Pumpguy (Jun 26, 2009)

majakdragon said:


> One bad thing I have heard about water powered back-up pumps is the amount of water used to operate the pump. I have heard it was 3 to 5 gallons of water to pump out one gallon from the sump. A lot would depend on where you are pumping the sump to.


It would be a ridiculous use of water to have this much used this way. Most water powered pumps will use 1 gallon to remove 1 gallon from the sump. A Basepump will use 1 gallon to remove 2 gallons from the sump. Go to www.basepump.com and look at their specs and info.


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## majakdragon (Sep 16, 2006)

Pumpguy, Although I am really not familiar with the water powered pumps, I did see one installed on DIY network. The requirements were stated at 2 gallons of city water to pump one gallon from the sump. I am sure there are better models by now, but you still have to know where all this water is being pumped to. How much would this use over a weekend? I hate to admit watching DIY shows, but I have been a Plumber for over 30 years so I have some grasp on what that much water would cost and how much area it would fill up.


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## howard.wheaton (Oct 7, 2008)

I was looking at the Basement Watchdog ac/dc model, which is their biggest. The only problem I see it that it is comparable to a .3hp and my primary is a .75hp. So my concern would be this pump being able to keep up if I loose power.


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## Pumpguy (Jun 26, 2009)

majakdragon said:


> Pumpguy, Although I am really not familiar with the water powered pumps, I did see one installed on DIY network. The requirements were stated at 2 gallons of city water to pump one gallon from the sump. I am sure there are better models by now, but you still have to know where all this water is being pumped to. How much would this use over a weekend? I hate to admit watching DIY shows, but I have been a Plumber for over 30 years so I have some grasp on what that much water would cost and how much area it would fill up.



You also have to keep in mind the waste caused by batteries. There is maintenance and replacement, which also causes landfill issues of their own. A Basepump will use NOTHING until the moment it turns on and then if it runs every 5-10 minutes for 24-48 hours or so, it will cost maybe 10 dollars to run. You can afford an awful lot of water at that rate in comparison to the $80.00-200.00 batteries you will be replacing every few years even if the pump never runs at all! I encourage you to go back to www.basepump.com and read the article there about battery vs. water powered and also look at their FAQ page and the question about water usage and cost.


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