# Painting wood paneling



## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

We have some real wood paneling in our living room that I would like to paint. I started to rip it down, but it was glued to the drywall. It was a disaster! 

Rather then replacing the drywall or laying additional drywall over the paneling I would just like to paint it. I have filled the lines with joint compound and I think it looks very nice. I painted a section to test, and it covered quite nicely without any sanding before hand. 

My main question is can I get away painting the paneling without deglossing it first? Do I have any serious bubbling or other problems to look forward to in the future if I don't sand it or degloss it? 

Thanks everyone in advance!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

The paints not going to stay stuck to the wall without degreasing it, sanding it, wipe down again, prime with a bonding primer then paint.


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## ARC Painting (Dec 23, 2011)

Yes, you are going to have adhesion problems. Prime before painting, it will help cover anyway. And don't use drywall primer! As joe says, a bonding primer. Happy painting!


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## jaggy (Feb 18, 2012)

Hello I,m a first time poster but I would sand for sure. For the amount of time it takes I think it would be worth it.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Well the walls are clean. Could I use TSP to degloss them and then prime? I can sand if necessary, but hate to do it because these were put up in the 60s (afraid of lead.) 

Bonding primer is a different story. I live in a small town and I don't remember seeing that type of primer at any of the hardware stores.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Were the walls painted or were they poly over the wood?
If it's poly there is no asbesto.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

I am not entirely sure, but I would say most likely painted. I can post a picture if you like.


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## BraniksPainting (Jan 20, 2012)

Michaelpro said:


> Well the walls are clean. Could I use TSP to degloss them and then prime? I can sand if necessary, but hate to do it because these were put up in the 60s (afraid of lead.)
> 
> Bonding primer is a different story. I live in a small town and I don't remember seeing that type of primer at any of the hardware stores.


 You won't be able to use TSP as a deglosser. 
TSP is only a cleaner. Sherwin Williams, PPG, Benjamin Moore all sell deglosser. SW sells bonding primer. Not sure of the other stores. Wear a mask with the deglosser....it's potent stuff.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. 

Sanded deglossed and cleaned using tsp. On some pieces of the paneling there is brown splotchy stains coming up after I primed it. What could that be? 

The section that I did not sand degloss and clean looks perfect. This doesn't make any sense.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)




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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

The brown haze/splotchiness is tannin. You need to prime with shellac based primer, or an oil primer that will hold back tannin. Your best bet is the shellac though.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Just curious though. Why would this show up now? Is it because I used primer or the tsp?

The test section I did where I just used the paint doesn't look anything like this.


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## BraniksPainting (Jan 20, 2012)

Michaelpro said:


> Just curious though. Why would this show up now? Is it because I used primer or the tsp?
> 
> The test section I did where I just used the paint doesn't look anything like this.


 What type of primer did you use? TSP has nothing to do with what you are seeing. TSP is mearly a cleaner. And honestly, you probably don't even need the TSP unless the wood was heavily soiled from a smoker or grease of some kind.

If you use the wrong primer the stains will eventually come through. Maybe not in a week, maybe not in a month but they will come through. Same thing will happen if you just paint over the wood without primer. 

Follow all of our advice (joecaption, ARC) and please get some bonding primer.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

The discoloration is either nicotine or tannin acid in the wood paneling. You have two problems to solve, adhesion and stain blocking. There are latex bonding primers that claim to seal tannin bleed, but I don't trust them for that with heavy tannin over the long term, they're a "good" choice. You can use oil based Zinsser Cover Stain, which will solve both problems and is a "better" versus latex. The "best" choice to solve both problems is Zinsser BIN shellac based primer. It has superior adhesion and stain blocking properties and will give you the most peace of mind. You need more than a simple bonding primer. In fact, if you sanded the paneling well enough, bonding may not even be an issue, but the stain, your biggest problem, needs the proper treatment.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

jsheridan said:


> The discoloration is either nicotine or tannin acid in the wood paneling. You have two problems to solve, adhesion and stain blocking. There are latex bonding primers that claim to seal tannin bleed, but I don't trust them for that with heavy tannin over the long term, they're a "good" choice. You can use oil based Zinsser Cover Stain, which will solve both problems and is a "better" versus latex. The "best" choice to solve both problems is Zinsser BIN shellac based primer. It has superior adhesion and stain blocking properties and will give you the most peace of mind. You need more than a simple bonding primer. In fact, if you sanded the paneling well enough, bonding may not even be an issue, but the stain, your biggest problem, needs the proper treatment.


Oh my has this been an ordeal. 

I got some Kilz heavy stain blocking primer. I can't get Zinsser in this town, for some reason no one has it. The Kilz is oil based and the people at the hardware store nor a Google search can give me a straight answer as to if it is okay to cover up the existing latex with the new oil based. 

The label says I can paint OVER the primer with latex or oil, but doesn't specify what it can be painted ONTO. It just says to make sure that the existing paint isn't peeling. 

Opinions?


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

BraniksPainting said:


> What type of primer did you use? TSP has nothing to do with what you are seeing. TSP is mearly a cleaner. And honestly, you probably don't even need the TSP unless the wood was heavily soiled from a smoker or grease of some kind.
> 
> If you use the wrong primer the stains will eventually come through. Maybe not in a week, maybe not in a month but they will come through. Same thing will happen if you just paint over the wood without primer.
> 
> Follow all of our advice (joecaption, ARC) and please get some bonding primer.


I just used some cheap Glidden primer, but it didn't cover very well.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

Michaelpro said:


> Oh my has this been an ordeal.
> 
> I got some Kilz heavy stain blocking primer. I can't get Zinsser in this town, for some reason no one has it. The Kilz is oil based and the people at the hardware store nor a Google search can give me a straight answer as to if it is okay to cover up the existing latex with the new oil based.
> 
> ...


Where do you live, OuterBumFunk? :laughing:
The problem with Kilz, though it's a stain blocker, it's not a bonding primer. You should be fine applying it over previously painted surfaces, but that's not really necessary if it's not stained. Previously painted surfaces generally require a sanding only prior to refinishing. If I'm understanding you correctly, you have both finished previously painted walls and walls with paneling, correct? The painted walls need sanding and repainting only, unless some sort of staining exists, then apply the Kilz. For the panel walls you need adhesion and stain blocking. Whatever you applied already over the paneling (pictured) is going to have to stay. Just apply a coat of the Kilz over that to kill the stain and then paint.


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

jsheridan said:


> Where do you live, OuterBumFunk? :laughing:
> The problem with Kilz, though it's a stain blocker, it's not a bonding primer. You should be fine applying it over previously painted surfaces, but that's not really necessary if it's not stained. Previously painted surfaces generally require a sanding only prior to refinishing. If I'm understanding you correctly, you have both finished previously painted walls and walls with paneling, correct? The painted walls need sanding and repainting only, unless some sort of staining exists, then apply the Kilz. For the panel walls you need adhesion and stain blocking. Whatever you applied already over the paneling (pictured) is going to have to stay. Just apply a coat of the Kilz over that to kill the stain and then paint.


Pretty much. Here in a town of 6,000 in the middle of nowhere haha. So it will be safe to paint the Kilz oil base over my existing latex base paint?


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Just wanted to post another picture for reference. The left was painted with three coats of paint. The right was primed once and painted with two coats. The tannin is apparent on the primed side but unnoticed on the painted side. Weird.


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## KelBelle (Jun 4, 2011)

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I've painted two different wood-paneled rooms in my home with ease. I have used both Kilz and Zinsser, and both work fine. I then painted with an interior latex. It's been about eight years since the rooms were painted... no problems.

If you want more details about Kilz Oil based primers, check out the site: http://www.kilz.com/masterchem/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=079f90033f9ff110VgnVCM1000008a05d103RCRD


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Just wanted everyone to know how things are progressing

Sanded the old latex area until I couldn't sand anymore. Sanded the paneling that I hadn't applied anything to until I couldn't sand anymore. Cleaned both areas with TSP. 

Applied the Kilz oil based stain blocking primer with success! It is sticking very nicely and all the stains are gone! I was having my doubts as to if it was actually going to cover them up haha. I will let it cure for a few days before I paint the final color, as I am sick and tired of messing with these silly walls.....:thumbsup:


This is the point where you realize that it would had been way faster to just tear out the paneling....


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Finished product. The paint is holding like a champ!

Turns out the local hardware store is carrying zinsser now. Go figure.


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## Nailbags (Feb 1, 2012)

People who paint wood paneling should be shot what a waist of wood and beauty. What next paint carpet?


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## Michaelpro (Jan 25, 2012)

Nailbags said:


> People who paint wood paneling should be shot what a waist of wood and beauty. What next paint carpet?


I'm glad you enjoy 30 year old wood paneling, and I'm sure other people still love it as well. I have seen lots of wood paneling that is beautiful. I was sick and tired of seeing my dark brown dungeon of a living room. A living area should be light and airy not dark and depressing. I feel change is good every few decades.

Do you know a good way to paint carpet? Looking to save a few bucks :jester:


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## federer (Aug 20, 2010)

lol good one


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