# 10A electric shock



## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

I'm thinking back to university physics here, and it's been a while. But:

Voltage = Current (amps) * Resistance

So if that circuit is 220V, then the resistance in the wire to generate 10 amps is (220 / 10) = 22 Ohms

The average person is 100,000 ohms dry (if I remember right) and 1,000 ohms wet.

So dry you would have gotten (220 / 100,000) = 0.0022 Amps (which is similar to what you described)

If wet you would have gotten 2.2 amps, and you'd be very dead.

Touching the desk just gives a path for the electricity once it leaves you, it doesn't change your resistance.


That being said, I could be completely wrong (someone let me know please), this is just what I remember.


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

It still doesn't clarify why i got such a heavy hit, i was totally shocked.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

whoyou1 said:


> It still doesn't clarify why i got such a heavy hit, i was totally shocked.


the easiest answer is:

because the physics in place allowed it to be.

Without knowing absolutely everything about the situation, it is impossible to determine why you got shocked or how much current actually flowed.

anyway, there is documentation showing that a person that is shocked can die hours after the shock due to cardiac or respiratory arrest. If you are feeling bad, I would suggest not being alone until at least tomorrow.

You should drink to replenish the electrolytes in your system. Gatorade would be good, or at least water.

chances are you were only hit with 120 volts. In a US residential situation, each line of a 220 volt circuit carries 120 volts. You would have had to make a line to line connection to be subjected to 220 (actually 240) volts. 

also, can be doesn't mean it always will be. Think about people hit with lightning: some survive, some don't.


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## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

You got hit with 0.002 amps of electricity which is 1/50th of what would kill you. That sounds like a pretty severe shock to me.

Also 0.1 amps is lethal, less than that is still often lethal, as in Tasers which have killed people with as little as 0.01 amps (which is only 5X more than you likely got).

What I can say is there is no way you got 10 amps, you are not as conductive as copper wire. When you put your finger over a 9V battery you don't really feel anything. Put your tongue over it and you feel a lot more, due to the difference in resistance between your finger and your very wet tongue.


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Not living @ US, Europe actually. I was @ the hospital for 3-4 hours and they found nothing. What about sleeping, i suppose noone can spectate me then


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

whoyou1 said:


> Not living @ US, Europe actually. I was @ the hospital for 3-4 hours and they found nothing. What about sleeping, i suppose noone can spectate me then


Ok, so you probably got hit with whatever your single line voltage is (I can never remember the foreign systems)

. It's what, already at least 1 am where you are? How long ago did this happen?


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

this happened about 12 hours ago, and it is 0.20am
I'm feeling weird @ my left chest, about where the heart is, but it isnt painful.
And a bit shaky.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

whoyou - hopefully this misadventure in electrical happened in a country with some good nationalized health care. Drag yourself back to the hospital. Might as well spend the night there to be on the safe side. 

Good luck:thumbsup:


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## operagost (Jan 8, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> whoyou - hopefully this misadventure in electrical happened in a country with some good nationalized health care.


:huh:


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Health care is great here, but im not going back there, not feeling THAT bad..


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

whoyou1 said:


> I got hit today with . . .220V electricity.


If most peoples' skin/body resistance most of the time is between 300 and 3000 ohms you got hit with 0.7A to 0.07A.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q="low+voltage+electrocution"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q="nerve+damage"+electricity&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=fibrillation&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

An elec. chair is 4A to 8A at 2400 vac. so the executionee is presenting 300 to 600 ohms.


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## PaliBob (Jun 11, 2008)

Troglodyte said:


> You got hit with 0.002 amps......


 I think there is a decimal point problem here, but you could have had momentarily something in the 0.1 to 0.2 amp range flowing through your body. Trog is right,the current flow though your body was not near 10 amps.

http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html 
.


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, i was hit fast and then i let go instantly, first i didnt feel so bad, after that i felt a bit sick. Called to 911 and they sent an escort, even tho my symptoms were not that great.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

whoyou1 said:


> Well, i was hit fast and then i let go instantly, first i didnt feel so bad, after that i felt a bit sick. Called to 911 and they sent an escort, even tho my symptoms were not that great.


http://ecmweb.com/ops_maintenance/electrical-trauma-20090601/

Supposedly the able-to-let-go current is <18 mA.

(220v^2)/300 ohms for one second is 160 joules, about equal in energy to two 0.45 slugs. More than 1 joule can be fatal and those defibrillator machines can put out 200 joules.

You would have been 1 of 1300 people in the US [out of 300M] who get electrocuted each year. The odds are with you.


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## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

Now I'm all curious about electricity and such, blast us all!

Looked it up some more and the resistance of a person is around 500,000 ohms at the high end, that means electricity coming in through the skin, and leaving through the skin. If directly into internal organs and out internal organs, that would be as low as 100 ohms. Again wet skin in/out is 1,000 ohms. Also, bear in mind that electricity entering one finger and leaving on another finger on the same hand doesn't have to travel so far so would encounter a lot less resistance. Anyways:

220 V:

500,000 ohms = 0.00044 amps
100,000 ohms = 0.0022 amps
1,000 ohms = 0.22 amps
100 ohms = 2.2 amps


Copper wire (size 14) has a resistance of 0.00297 ohms / foot so lets say a 200 foot run, would have 0.594 ohms, and at 220V could pass 370 amps (this must be why we have breakers because that would cause excessive heating in the copper wire?) 


http://www.ohmcheck.com/human_electrical_resistance.htm

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/wire_resistance.html


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lectrical+injury"&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

And the skin punctures at >600v so you lose the benefit of skin resistance. Been there, done that, still have the scar.


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## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

Whoa! Where did you get hit with 600+ volts??? You been taser'ed?


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Troglodyte said:


> Whoa! Where did you get hit with 600+ volts??? You been taser'ed?


In the old days the vacuum tubes in TV sets needed high voltage on the plate. 

I touched the secondary of one of these TV transformers and the other guy in the room said "What's that smell?" I had to tell him it was me.


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## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

Not to be insensitive, but neat. Though burnt flesh is one of the worst smells I can think of.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

You might be interested in this link about a local physician I used to work with who got hit by lightning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cicoria


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## Troglodyte (May 4, 2010)

Kind of like electro-shock therapy. Very interesting. I wouldn't mind if lightning gave me a desire to stop navigating DIY forums and actually do something myself.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Troglodyte said:


> Not to be insensitive, but neat. Though burnt flesh is one of the worst smells I can think of.


Yeah, it's funny, looking back on it.

The 'other guy' died in pilot training some years later. 

And another playmate, observing how little respect I had for electricity, predicted that I would one day be electrocuted. So far, so good, but I'm quite sure I came close to being knifed to death [and me, with no training in edged weapons!]


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

oh well, ill better cross my fingers for not passing out while asleep.
Wish me luck


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Leah Frances said:


> whoyou - hopefully this misadventure in electrical happened in a country with some good nationalized health care. Drag yourself back to the hospital. Might as well spend the night there to be on the safe side.
> 
> Good luck:thumbsup:


This is DIY home improvement site, not DIY Medical Treatment site. Now I can see coming here with your experience to say “Wow, don’t do that” or "why did this happen" but to come here to say, I don’t want to go back to the doctor what should I do next, is just ludicrous.

I do have sympathy, but give me a break.

If you’re worried, go to the Doctor Now.


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Troglodyte said:


> Not to be insensitive, but neat. Though burnt flesh is one of the worst smells I can think of.


MMMMM. Smells like BBQ! :laughing:


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Burning hair is worse IMO


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I have a friend who was sitting on a plastic milk crate and had her feet in water. Her screwdriver hit one of the terminals on one of the three heating elements of an industrial dishwasher. She knocked out all the power in that part of the building. It was 640 volts.

The electricity went up her left arm, across her chest and out her right thumb. 

Now, 4 years later, she had a stress test and found out that the current tore one of the valves in her heart, which causes heavy palpitations, or a thumping in her chest. If you feel the thumping so strong that it feels like it's up in your neck, she says you need to see a cardiologist.

She said the only way you'll find out if there's any damage is if they do a stress test.

She told me to give you her email address so she could talk to you, but you don't have your PM enabled.

Btw, she's not a doctor. She's just speaking from her own experience.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

gma2rjc said:


> I have a friend who was sitting on a plastic milk crate and had her feet in water. Her screwdriver hit one of the terminals on one of the three heating elements of an industrial dishwasher. She knocked out all the power in that part of the building. It was 640 volts.
> 
> The electricity went up her left arm, across her chest and out her right thumb.
> 
> ...


An EKG would uncover palpitations and most likely evidence of a damaged valve. That is the first place to start. They would follow up with a stress test and/or some sort of cardiac imaging study to see the specifics of what was uncovered on the EKG.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

gma2rjc said:


> She said the only way you'll find out if there's any damage is if they do a stress test.
> 
> She told me to give you her email address so she could talk to you, but you don't have your PM enabled.


PM's turn on after 10 posts


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

gma2rjc said:


> tore one of the valves in her heart, which causes heavy palpitations, or a thumping in her chest. If you feel the thumping so strong that it feels like it's up in your neck, she says you need to see a cardiologist.


"The tricuspid valve. . . Besides fatigue, the only symptoms are a pulsating feeling in the neck. . . Symptoms include palpitations. . ."


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

Yoyizit said:


> The tricuspid valve. . . Besides fatigue, the only symptoms are a pulsating feeling in the neck. . . Symptoms include palpitations. . .


Not trying to dismiss the possibility of heart valve problems but there are myriad reasons for palpitations, fatigue, and a pulsating feeling in the neck that have nothing to do with the valves.









but any such symptoms should be investigated.


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Hello, ive had about 5 hours a sleep, had some chest pain when i was asleep, but feeling better now. 
When i was at hospital they did several tests, including EKG, took blood sample and measured blood pressure, pulse etc..
My aunt is a doctor and she said that such electric shock could've damaged or hurt some of my cells and electrolytes, but it shouldn't cause any more troublesome conditions, since the tests came out clear.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Glad to see you're alright. Did your aunt say how long it will be until you start feeling normal again?


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## biggles (Jan 1, 2008)

i was explaining a control circuit to another tech while standing in front of a 480V running hvac unit in a mechanical room..i hand my left hand full palm leaning on the panel and doing the pointing with my right index finger...arond the line voltage contactors.looking at the tech as i talked my index hit L1 of the 480 compressor contactor and felt the 277 running across my chest...and by the time i lifted may palm off the panel with a shock reaction...the back of my middle finger blew out...i am 220lbs 5-9.if you touched your finger tip and your big toe was the ground you might get full resistance...seen union electricans check 480 with a finger to the disconnect and flick the terminals...it's when you don't expect it...even 24V 100VA could knock you back


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

gma2rjc said:


> Glad to see you're alright. Did your aunt say how long it will be until you start feeling normal again?


Couple days until i feel better, couple weeks before i could do any hard labour or activity etc..


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## bernieb (Mar 20, 2010)

In america that ambulance run would have cost you 900 bucks, and stay overnight throw in another thousand. Still trying to picture a desk being a conductor............


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## whoyou1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Crappy health care then, i suppose. It's totally free here at northern Europe


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

whoyou1 said:


> Crappy health care then, i suppose.


For the money that's spent, yes. Michael Moore did a film on this.


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## nap (Dec 4, 2007)

bernieb said:


> In america that ambulance run would have cost you 900 bucks, and stay overnight throw in another thousand. Still trying to picture a desk being a conductor............


a metal desk maybe?


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Personal injuries that result from DIY projects gone wrong can quickly offset any savings gained by not hiring a contractor, at least here in the US. Besides the hospital bills, there is the possiblility of lost wages and even permanent disability. I generally weigh this in when considering whether or not to DIY. 

I work as an X-ray tech and have seen many such injuries, ladder falls seem to be the most common. I am not afraid to go up on a ladder but did decide that a total roof was something best left to a pro.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

I was employed as an electrician by a large employer. We had more than a dozen electricians on staff.
From time to time we had electrical safety seminars. 
On one occasion we had a lecture given by our local power authority. We were instructed that if we received an electrical shock that caused skin damage, that we should go to the hospital for a kidney evaluation.
When electrical current flows in the body, it naturally follows the blood vessels. The heat generated can 'poach' the white corpuscle's then as they move to the kidneys, rather than be filtered through, they jamb up the flow, and cause kidney failure.
Now over the course of my carreer, I have encountered electrical contact many, many times.
I started having kidney problems and after testing it was determined that I have only 50% function left.
It seems that my 'sins' have come home to roost!


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Wildie said:


> Now over the course of my carreer, I have encountered electrical contact many, many times.
> I started having kidney problems and after testing it was determined that I have only 50% function left.
> It seems that my 'sins' have come home to roost!


And your reduced kidney function is believed to be due to multiple elec. shocks, and not other causes?


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Yoyizit said:


> And your reduced kidney function is believed to be due to multiple elec. shocks, and not other causes?


 It would be hard to say exactly what this could be attributed to. 
I've never been involved with the drug culture or any other risky behavior.
One possibility could have been food poisoning that I experienced in Texas or another case of food poisoning elsewhere.
These experiences may have been the cause, or perhaps all contributed.
Its hard to pin-point, as kidney damage isn't obvious at the moment. It usually takes a period of time before side effects are apparent.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

I hope they can help you manage this problem.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Yoyizit said:


> I hope they can help you manage this problem.


 Thanks! Actually, I'm checked every 6 months and have been stable for about 5 years! So, its not an on-going problem.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Wildie said:


> I was employed as an electrician by a large employer. We had more than a dozen electricians on staff.
> From time to time we had electrical safety seminars.
> On one occasion we had a lecture given by our local power authority. We were instructed that if we received an electrical shock that caused skin damage, that we should go to the hospital for a kidney evaluation.
> When electrical current flows in the body, it naturally follows the blood vessels. The heat generated can 'poach' the white corpuscle's then as they move to the kidneys, rather than be filtered through, they jamb up the flow, and cause kidney failure.


They were close but got the wrong cells as the culprit. It is not an excess of white blood cells AKA corpuscles. The kidney tubules can be blocked but a substance known as myoglobin, a protien given off by muscle tissues after they are damaged during an electrical shock. This muscle destruction is known as Rhabdomyolysis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdomyolysis


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks for the link! Interesting but I'm confused about its connection?

" The muscle damage may be caused by physical (e.g., crush injury), chemical, or biological factors."

Anyway, the point being that electrons flowing in the blood-stream causes damage that causes blockage in the kidneys and renal failure can be fatal.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Wildie said:


> Thanks for the link! Interesting but I'm confused about its connection?
> 
> " The muscle damage may be caused by physical (e.g., crush injury), chemical, or biological factors."
> 
> Anyway, the point being that electrons flowing in the blood-stream causes damage that causes blockage in the kidneys and renal failure can be fatal.


The link may not have fully explained it. Electrical shock also can cause the degree of muscle tissue destruction that releases myoglobin, which is the protien that can obstruct the kidney filtration system. The kidneys were designed to remove white blood cells so they are not likely to cause obstruction. The long and the short of it is the safety instructor got the jist of it which is that renal failure can lead to kidney failure but not by the mechanics he described. There may be other possible causes to your situation other than electrical shock but your doctor would know that best.


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## Wildie (Jul 23, 2008)

Jim F said:


> The link may not have fully explained it. Electrical shock also can cause the degree of muscle tissue destruction that releases myoglobin, which is the protien that can obstruct the kidney filtration system. The kidneys were designed to remove white blood cells so they are not likely to cause obstruction. The long and the short of it is the safety instructor got the jist of it which is that renal failure can lead to kidney failure but not by the mechanics he described. There may be other possible causes to your situation other than electrical shock but your doctor would know that best.


 The safety instructors intent was warn us that we should seek out medical attention, as quickly as possible, if an electrical shock of major proportion should occur.
In my case, if I were a betting man, I would say that my problem came from food poisoning. However, I had two serious contacts with electrical shock, so this cannot be ruled out, entirely.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

I don't doubt the intent of the lecture, I just thought you might be interested in the actual reason that electrical shock causes kidney failure as opposed to the misinformed one.


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