# Blower fan runs constantly



## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

I've got a Carrier downdraft htg/fan coil unit, 1990 Model No. 58DRC080-JB.

Unit was working fine. Last weekend main power to the house went on and off about 5 times in 1 hour. Next morning the blower kept running even after the heat setpoint was satisfied (and burner properly cut off). I made the blower stop by opening the access panel to trip the safety switch. 

To test for Tstat damage I completely disconnected the thermostat wires - The blower still runs constantly when the panel door closes, so I think Tstat isn't the problem. Heating and cooling both function properly from the Tstat, just that the blower stays on constant; I have the access panel ajar until I want to run it.

Looking at the unit and the wiring diag inside the panel, I wonder if there's an airflow safety switch or temp safety that got shorted out. 

Anyone heard of power outage causing a fault like this before?

Thanks in advance for any ideas on troubleshooting, or other advice.
Made the mistake of asking on hvac-talk forums, just for any known DIY sites for homeowners, and within mins, a handful of unfriendly posts and the thread was closed. :huh:
-Mark


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

Sounds like a problem with the fan relay circuit. maybe it got welded in the closed position?


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

chris75 said:


> Sounds like a problem with the fan relay circuit. maybe it got welded in the closed position?



VERY possible. Carrier and all down flow furnaces have auxiliary limits mounted on the blower. It's a manual reset. That many voltage surges could have welded a relay like Chris said and it could also have caused the limit to trip.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

hvaclover said:


> VERY possible. Carrier and all down flow furnaces have auxiliary limits mounted on the blower. It's a manual reset. That many voltage surges could have welded a relay like Chris said and it could also have caused the limit to trip.


 
Or someone left the fan mode on the tstat in the ON position again. :laughing:


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

chris75 said:


> Or someone left the fan mode on the tstat in the ON position again. :laughing:


Had one today:thumbup:


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

hvaclover said:


> Had one today:thumbup:


My favorite is always the emergency switch in the "Off" position.


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*Emergency switch?*

Thanks guys-- that's at least 2 possibles to investigate. 

The fan control button on the programmable T500 electronic Tstat is def. not on. I don't know what an emergency switch is. Wish I had an electronic version of the wiring diag to share-- any chance I could find one on the web? 

There are 2 relay/contactors in clear plastic cases inside the unit's main control box-- labeled HFR & CFR on diag. The htg fan relay says N.C. spst, the CFR just says dpdt. 

Below the fan and above the burner are a gray box Ignition Lockout (flowswitch?) and a black-back thing that looks like it might be a temp sensor. 

Now this is odd... last night I ran the htg and when the setpoint was satisfied, the fan went off normally on it's own. I thought it had worked itself out and I was home free. But this morning, after htg came on auto by Tstat program, the fan stayed on constant again after the setpoint was satisfied. 
So I'm back to access-door ajar to keep the fan from running.


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## x47 (Nov 8, 2008)

*I have the same problem*

I have the same problem as epowerfan - fan doesn't turn off - the only way to turn off the fan is to switch the furnance master switch on the wall.

I jumped the high limit switch as well as disconnected it - no effect on the fan. Thermostat fan switch is on "AUTO".

Is it worth replacing the control board (about $40 online) or is this something that a service tech needs to diagnose?


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

x47-- high limit switch? Temp hi lim? airflow switch? and where is it? Could mine be one of those in the picture?

I watched the HFR & CFR while i closed the access panel interlock switch. As the blower started I didn't see either relay close. 

What gives?? Does that mean my Htg Fan Relay is normally closed like the wiring diag says.. and a N.O. temp limit switch is in series with it, so that the blower is ON unless a temp safety switch is below setpoint temp? 

-Mark


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

if you still have heat (which means hi limits are closed and not the prob) and you arent getting any lo voltage sig at the low volt term on the board (G) than id say its the board pull the low speed fan wire see if it shuts off you might also try gently smacking the relay while the fans running


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## x47 (Nov 8, 2008)

*high limit switch*

the high limit switch is the one on the left in your photo - has 2 wires coming from it. I believe it is normally closed.

I am going to try what kennzz05 recommends - that should confirm whether or not the fan controller board is working right.


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

One more thing to check, is yout t-stat programmed to re-circ the air? this would basically turn the fan on for a set amont of time per hour.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

results?


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## x47 (Nov 8, 2008)

*tapped on the relay*

tapped on the relay - fan has been working fine for half a day. something is probably bad in the relay. I will see how long it goes without reverting to the fan being on all the time.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

x47 said:


> tapped on the relay - fan has been working fine for half a day. something is probably bad in the relay. I will see how long it goes without reverting to the fan being on all the time.


 
the points on the relay are pitted and will stick every now and than if it weren't a sealed relay you could sand the points but its pretty much a throwaway item unless you want to try and solder a new relay in but this isn't Russia so we just toss em and replace since its not coming out of our pocket lol


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

I tried gently smacking the htg fan relay and it did not click. Also it doesn't move when the fan starts OR stops from the access panel interlock switch.

I tried to gently pry the HFR out of it's socket to inspect it-- no go so I didn't force it. Can this relay just unplug from a socket? Is it locked or soldered in? Printed on relay is:

Potter & Brumfield
KU-6454
24V 50/60 Hz
10 FLA 30 LRA 125VAC
5 FLA 15 LRA 250VAC
*728-0016*

The wiring diag says the HFR is normally closed. I figure it's wired normally on, and another component in the wiring control is making it stay it on-- like maybe the high limit switch. 

X47, do we have the same model furnace?

Is the high limit switch a 2-position thermostat, N.O. at lower temp and closed upon higher temp? Purpose to keep the blower running after the burner shuts off, until the temp cools down enough? 

I unplugged the power to the furnace and measured resistance across the terminals of the high limit switch. .2 Ohms while about 65 deg F-- if it's a 2-position stat, it's closed. 

Btw Chris, my Tstat has a button to man turn on and off the fan only, but not to schedule running just the fan. 

The high limit switch has the following markings:
STEMCO
430-1457
HH12ZA174C
L170 9030


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*how to replace fan control relay*

More stupid questions. How do I replace the fan control relay? Just tug harder on it, and it comes out of a socket on the control board? 

At this point I suspect the htg fan relay; or possibly the fan hi lim control. Maybe I can take them to Johnstone Supply and get replacements?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Mark


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*update*

Called Tycoelectronics (P&B) about replacing the relay. They said that part# (KU-6454) was custom; it could be plugged into a socket, or also might have a threaded stud bolting it in.

All power off, removed the board screws and looked at the back side. No threaded stud securing the relay.. but it looks like the board doesn't have a socket, like the relay prongs are just soldered in the board. 

Any advice on next step? A way to test the relay? 

A way to test the Stemco hi limit control? 
-Mark


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Called Tycoelectronics (P&B) about replacing the relay. They said that part# (KU-6454) was custom; it could be plugged into a socket, or also might have a threaded stud bolting it in.
> 
> All power off, removed the board screws and looked at the back side. No threaded stud securing the relay.. but it looks like the board doesn't have a socket, like the relay prongs are just soldered in the board.
> 
> ...


That relay is soldered in.

When wa the last time you changed filters.?


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

you need a board they are non repairable the cost is about 50 dollars again if you still have heat limits are ok


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

I remember changing filters early summer. They look fairly clean. Is there another safety that might have tripped if they're dirty?

Where can I buy a replacement board? 

TG the unit is still functional. I've done a lot of soldering, so willing to remove the board and put in a new relay. Know of a way to test if the relay is bad?

Anyone know how to test the hi limit control? 

-Mark


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

dude:if you have heat the limits are good ok, im 100% positive many supply houses sell an aftermarket board give them the number on the board I believe that board is referred to as a (16) board the last numbers in the model number but it should be available at other than carrier dealers although you may have trouble getting them to sell it to you as a homeowner and not a technician


and to repeat if theres a flame than all your limits are closed open limit=no heat


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks dude :thumbsup:,
Based on the relay observation & whack test, and blower fan stays on, would you say my HFR is bad? Unusual to solder on a replacement relay? 

Are you saying we can rule out faulty limit control as cause of the blower staying on longer than it should? Just asking- I asked how the hi lim works, and no answer yet.

What are some possible supply houses for an aftermarket board? 
-Mark


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Thanks dude :thumbsup:,
> Based on the relay observation & whack test, and blower fan stays on, would you say my HFR is bad? Unusual to solder on a replacement relay?
> 
> Are you saying we can rule out faulty limit control as cause of the blower staying on longer than it should? Just asking- I asked how the hi lim works, and no answer yet.
> ...



Try Googling. Do you think he lives in your town.


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## x47 (Nov 8, 2008)

*It was my control board*

epowerfan,

I have a Carrier furnace Model #58SE075-3, I see a date of 1975.

As I mentioned above, I jumped and disconnected the high limit switch (#HH12ZA251), but the fan kept running when jumped or disconnected, so I assume that the switch is good.

The control board is 302075-302.

After perfomring the test advised by Kennezz05, it was obvious that the fan relay was the problem. I replaced the board and everything is functioning as normal.

I used replacement board # ICM271. I found the correct board by googling my control board part number, which is visable on the front of the board. That gave me a cross reference which ultimately cross-referenced to ICM271. It was $40 on ebay an I got it in 2 days.

Hope that helps


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks x47, that helps a lot. 

I did your test of the high limit while plugged in w/ same result-- open or closed, it did not stop the constant blower. Also while the unit power was on, I measured zero Volts across the hi limit, so I guess it is an ON-OFF Tstat.

I tried whacking the HFR a bit more firmly (Tstat in OFF, while the panel interlock sw depressed and blower starting). The HFR still didn't budge, but the CFR contacted & shut down the blower. In this state I turned the Tstat to heat mode and moved the setpoint up for heat. I heard the small click that's usually followed by clicking of the ignitor, but no ignitor and the blower didn't start. 

So it would seem my HFR is bad, or something else on the board. Putting labels on the connected wires before I remove the board to get it's numbers.
-Mark


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

yaknow not to be a douchebag but if you had followed the advice given you by the techs that have something like 90 years of experiance between us and gotten the board a couple of days ago youd have heat today if hvac was YOUR field of expertise you wouldnt be on here asking


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Not dbag, I appreciate your experience & advice. 
True, hvac isn't my field and I didn't know you all were so many yrs expd techs. So many Qs cuz I want to understand more details of how the unit works and precise troubleshooting than needed to fix it this prob. 

Fortunately I never lost heat; just keeping the access panel ajar when not using until proper fan control is back. And I only want to fix what's broken, so if replacing the relay works I'll keep the board. 
Thanks, Mark


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Not dbag, I appreciate your experience & advice.
> True, hvac isn't my field and I didn't know you all were so many yrs expd techs. So many Qs cuz I want to understand more details of how the unit works and precise troubleshooting than needed to fix it this prob.
> 
> Fortunately I never lost heat; just keeping the access panel ajar when not using until proper fan control is back. And I only want to fix what's broken, so if replacing the relay works I'll keep the board.
> Thanks, Mark


Then don't bother the techs if you are not willing to follow the advice given.

You cannot just selectively repair the electronics that fail. The parts are approved by agencies that certify the safety of the unit.

You are trying to circumvent the very system that makes your furnace safe. Follow the previous advice or move on.


Mods if you feel this is too harsh than by all means delete it. But the OP
has been given more than enough info to to solve his issues bur will not 
listen.


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Hvaclover, Thanks again for the good advice. Sorry if I bothered you.


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*board replaced, now blower won't run*

The new board arrived today. ICM271C to replace my CES0110018 printed on the orig board.
I read all the instructions and installed it (w/ 3Amp car fuse in).

Tstat in OFF, plugged in the furnace power chord and pressed the access panel interlock switch-- the blower didn't come on. whew 

Tstat to Htg mode and setpoint to bring heat...
The ignitor began clicking in a few seconds as normal, the burner fired.. but the blower didn't start. 

Tstat to Clg mode and setpoint for Clg. Within a couple seconds the condensing unit started but not the Blower fan.

Also the FAN button on the Tstat will not start & stop the blower like it used to. 

Yikes. Now what? Off to search forum for similar prob. -Mark


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> The new board arrived today. ICM271C to replace my CES0110018 printed on the orig board.
> I read all the instructions and installed it (w/ 3Amp car fuse in).
> 
> Tstat in OFF, plugged in the furnace power chord and pressed the access panel interlock switch-- the blower didn't come on. whew
> ...


 
double check your wireing sounds like a bad board read motor terminals on board for voltage when you know it should be present fan "on" for example. (read at hi speed terminal). use tape to hold door switch in (if your not doing that already)


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Ok, hope I do this right.
First a confession. When I removed the orig board I labeled the green Tstat wire just "G", when it went to either GH or GC. Should the Green wire from the Tstat terminate at GH or GC? 

The orig board has a wire jumper (J1) between GH and the R terminal adjacent. The new board has a (JW-1) that looks like some kinda little diode / jumper? I can't tell what it jumps. http://www.icmcontrols.com/downloads/icm271_ag.pdf 

Disconnected the HI and LO connectors to the fan. Tsat to Fan ON, pressed the door switch and measured for VAC between HI and COM, and LO and COM. 

It read .5V AC HI-COM.

and 2.5V AC LO-COM. (Voltage was same whether the G Tstat wire to GH or GC)

Also the new board Umanual Tshooting says, 
No fan output in heat mode: Verify that you have 24 volts between W and C. Check-- 27 VAC
Make sure you have continuity between the GAS1 and GAS3 terminals. I measured .65 K-Ohms between GAS1 & GAS3. **Could this be the problem? 

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=13714&highlight=blower+carrier+control 
The guy in this thread found a GAS1-to-GAS3 jumper on his orig board. My orig board has no jumper GAS1-GAS3, and I measured 370 KOhms between GAS1 & 3 while sitting on the table.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Ok, hope I do this right.
> First a confession. When I removed the orig board I labeled the green Tstat wire just "G", when it went to either GH or GC. Should the Green wire from the Tstat terminate at GH or GC?
> 
> The orig board has a wire jumper (J1) between GH and the R terminal adjacent. The new board has a (JW-1) that looks like some kinda little diode / jumper? I can't tell what it jumps. http://www.icmcontrols.com/downloads/icm271_ag.pdf
> ...


youre not reading resistance only continuity its either open or closed and your reading the limit circuit so its got to be done while installed and wired.like last time if flame starts limits are good
G wire at gc

if flame starts and no fan you either got wrong/bad board


try pulling one of the wires off the limit see if the fan starts as tho the limit opened

wasnt the last numbers in your old board a 16 if so i dont see that board you put the link to as being a replacement for the 16 board ok i see where i got the 16 from it was from the relay nevermind


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks Kennz, I'll keep the G wire to GC.

I pulled one connector off of the hi limit, and the blower still won't turn on.

I read the manual on my Fluke MM and (duh) set it for continuity w/ beeper. The new board beeps 'closed' as soon as call for fan & push door switch.

What do you think about the GH-to-R jumper on the orig board? -Mark


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Thanks Kennz, I'll keep the G wire to GC.
> 
> I pulled one connector off of the hi limit, and the blower still won't turn on.
> 
> ...


there's the problem . Fluke meter.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Thanks Kennz, I'll keep the G wire to GC.
> 
> I pulled one connector off of the hi limit, and the blower still won't turn on.
> 
> ...


read over that link you posted id leave the board as is no jumper cutting but i really think you have a bad board, hate to tell you but at this point id return the board and call someone to fix it youve spent enough time on it and have no results if your comrortable doing this just so you have heat run 120v to the low speed wire on the board so you can at least have heat again (this will give you constant fan as you had before) i think i remember you saying it would fire up just no fan correct?


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

kennzz05 said:


> read over that link you posted id leave the board as is no jumper cutting but i really think you have a bad board, hate to tell you but at this point id return the board and call someone to fix it youve spent enough time on it and have no results if your comrortable doing this just so you have heat run 120v to the low speed wire on the board so you can at least have heat again (this will give you constant fan as you had before) i think i remember you saying it would fire up just no fan correct?


Did anybody mention that board has an adjustment that if turned down too low no fan operation occurs.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

hvaclover said:


> Did anybody mention that board has an adjustment that if turned down too low no fan operation occurs.


off delay is fixed non adj 105 sec


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Did you check to see if voltage was coming off the board for the heat speed?


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

hvaclover said:


> Did you check to see if voltage was coming off the board for the heat speed?


 
yea he did its mentioned in the 3rd post on this page


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

Well if the new board's bad, so be it. Rare, but happens; I'd like to rule out other possibles before asking the merchant for exchange or return.

Something I don't understand on P. 3 of the new board's App guide: attached screenshot

The right column of Blower Operating Modes seems to describe how the unit normally used to operate. Not cut any resistor or jumper unless it was cut on the old board... well, the old board doesn't have an R17. I've got a higher-res digcam back in service, I can post pics of the orig board.

I might try calling ICM Controls to see if they have any tech support. Don't know what to make of the jumper on the orig board between the GH-and-R terminals, vs. JW-1 on the new board. -Mark


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*tshooting ICM controls*

Ok consensus board bad. 
ICM Controls gave good support. JW-1 on new board is a zero-Ohm jumper GH to R, just like orig. Confirmed R17 should remain as-is.

Tested SEC-1 to SEC-2 for 24VAC -yes. Tested Line1 to Line2 for 120VAC -yes. Transformer's good.

He had me jump GAS-1 to GAS-3 and jump Lim-1 to Lim-2 then call for heat by jump R-to-W. Said if the fan still doesn't start the board's bad.
The burner fired right away, but no fan start even over 2 mins later. I confirmed no 120V on COM-LO & COM-HI so it's not wires/connectors.

Offta exchange the board. Thanks for all the help here guys-- I learned a lot and am grateful. -Mark


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Man you gotta be an engineer...


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

LOL yeah


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

Go get a board and stop micro managing every detail.

My kid used to help me in my business 'til he got his EE degree. Kid used to be the most practical minded HVAC tech around. Now since he graduated university and went to work he needs an inter net connection and a spread sheet to change a faucet.


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## kennzz05 (Nov 11, 2008)

epowerfan said:


> Ok consensus board bad.
> ICM Controls gave good support. JW-1 on new board is a zero-Ohm jumper GH to R, just like orig. Confirmed R17 should remain as-is.
> 
> Tested SEC-1 to SEC-2 for 24VAC -yes. Tested Line1 to Line2 for 120VAC -yes. Transformer's good.
> ...


told ya


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## gordchevy (Dec 5, 2008)

*Tolerance*



hvaclover said:


> Then don't bother the techs if you are not willing to follow the advice given.
> 
> You cannot just selectively repair the electronics that fail. The parts are approved by agencies that certify the safety of the unit.
> 
> ...


First, , this person has no idea what he is even saying, because these forums are totally voluntary and those that participate do so for the sole reason to assist others. In other words, his remarks are out of line and he has established himself as the "bothersome person." Secondly, reading this responders email makes me ashamed that I am from the Detroit area. It is obvious that this responder has a low threshold in regard to patience and tolerance (i.e. - will not tolerate those that do not respond the way he desires). However, what goes around generally comes around. For example, one day this person might apprehensively question his doctor concerning a life threatening operation or medical procedure and in so many words his doctor might tell him that his questioning is improper, "because he is the professional." It might be at that time that this person feels the helplessness that results from the advice to blindly follow without questions.


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## epowerfan (Nov 11, 2008)

*Wrap up*

With warnings all over this site about following advice given here, I didn't feel the least obligated. I participate in several forums, from hobbies to computers and it's interesting how worked up ppl can get; that's all part of it.

Mon this week i got the replacement board from ebay seller "thermalresources" and the furnace was working in 15 min. It came with 3 Amp fuse installed. The first one didn't--which made me wonder if it was truly new & unopened. They sell the board cheap (under $50 incl ship) but I wouldn't recommend; slow cust service to replace the defective board cost me an extra week.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

gordchevy said:


> First, , this person has no idea what he is even saying, because these forums are totally voluntary and those that participate do so for the sole reason to assist others. In other words, his remarks are out of line and he has established himself as the "bothersome person." Secondly, reading this responders email makes me ashamed that I am from the Detroit area. It is obvious that this responder has a low threshold in regard to patience and tolerance (i.e. - will not tolerate those that do not respond the way he desires). However, what goes around generally comes around. For example, one day this person might apprehensively question his doctor concerning a life threatening operation or medical procedure and in so many words his doctor might tell him that his questioning is improper, "because he is the professional." It might be at that time that this person feels the helplessness that results from the advice to blindly follow without questions.


HI!

And welcome to the forum.

Sorry, but i really don't know what you are getting at. Could you please be a little more specific?

First, , this person has no idea what he is even saying, because these forums are totally voluntary and those that participate do so for the sole reason to assist others.
How does a DIY forum have any bearing on what somebody says?
 In other words, his remarks are out of line and he has established himself as the "bothersome person." Secondly, reading this responders email makes me ashamed that I am from the Detroit area.
I don't get how a person gets to be labeled anything except "Considerate" for taking time to offer advice. If you are from Detroit your shame is some thing you have to work out for yourself, please don't blame me for your issues.

Aside from that stuff what is your post about?


And why did you say we have had Email contact? I don't know who you are.
Please explain.


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## pipefitter636 (Nov 1, 2008)

gordchevy said:


> First, , this person has no idea what he is even saying, because these forums are totally voluntary and those that participate do so for the sole reason to assist others. In other words, his remarks are out of line and he has established himself as the "bothersome person." Secondly, reading this responders email makes me ashamed that I am from the Detroit area. It is obvious that this responder has a low threshold in regard to patience and tolerance (i.e. - will not tolerate those that do not respond the way he desires). However, what goes around generally comes around. For example, one day this person might apprehensively question his doctor concerning a life threatening operation or medical procedure and in so many words his doctor might tell him that his questioning is improper, "because he is the professional." It might be at that time that this person feels the helplessness that results from the advice to blindly follow without questions.


First of all this hvaclover does know what he is talking about. He has been in this trade for over 30 years. I read all posts from the begining and I don't see anything wrong with what he had posted. If a soldered realy is bad on a residential board you do not replace the relay you replace the board. Second if you are from the detroit area then you know times are bad here. I am also from the detroit area. We are here to help when we can,to give FREE advise as we are professionals in the field everyday. And for you to critisize him for telling the op to forget about the relay replacement and get a new board(which 100%) of the hvac professional tech's in the field would do then please don't come here for free advice. Go look in the phone book under heating and cooling pick out a contractor an pay the hourly service fee plus the trip charge and argue with him to replace the relay vs the board. If he would have taken the advice from the start you wouldn't be here.


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## gordchevy (Dec 5, 2008)

*Resonse*

Hello hvclover,

Please remember that you asked me to be more specific when reading this reply. Moreover, the written word is sometimes misinterpreted due to the absense of voice inflection. Therefore, I apologize in advance for any offense you might take by my following remarks.

At any rate, my post was about your behavior. You were rude in your paraphrased remarks as follow:
"do not bother the experts" 

I am sure you are good at your trade but it is also obvious that you lack certain communication skills (in the medical field it is called bedside manners).

Secondly, I would recommend that you reassess your attitude in terms of feelings of supeiority and/or infallibility. 

Thirdly, if you want to help people than do so with a cheerful heart (no complaining or insulting remarks to those who ask for your help). If a person does not agree than simply ignore it.

My final advice would be that you refrain from using the picture next to your I.D., becuase it denotes a person who is irate and/or irritated (not a good impression to make).








hvaclover said:


> HI!
> 
> And welcome to the forum.
> 
> ...


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## gordchevy (Dec 5, 2008)

*response*

Helo pipefitter636,

In response to your remarks, please read my response to "hvaclover" if you have not already done so (it partly applies to you also). I will be even more candid with you, because I detect even more of a bad attitude in your remarks.

It appears that you feel that you can insult people because you are giving free advice. It also appears that you think that you are more special than the next guy. Finally, it appears that you might resent the fact that you are not getting paid for services rendered. If any of that is true, than I suggest you refrain from using forums of this type. You will be more happy and those that need help will not be made to feel bad for asking for your exalted advice (free as it might be).

In closing, citing "tough times in Detroit" is no excuse for bad manners or the exibition of superior attitudes.




pipefitter636 said:


> First of all this hvaclover does know what he is talking about. He has been in this trade for over 30 years. I read all posts from the begining and I don't see anything wrong with what he had posted. If a soldered realy is bad on a residential board you do not replace the relay you replace the board. Second if you are from the detroit area then you know times are bad here. I am also from the detroit area. We are here to help when we can,to give FREE advise as we are professionals in the field everyday. And for you to critisize him for telling the op to forget about the relay replacement and get a new board(which 100%) of the hvac professional tech's in the field would do then please don't come here for free advice. Go look in the phone book under heating and cooling pick out a contractor an pay the hourly service fee plus the trip charge and argue with him to replace the relay vs the board. If he would have taken the advice from the start you wouldn't be here.


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## hvaclover (Oct 2, 2008)

gordchevy said:


> Hello hvclover,
> 
> Please remember that you asked me to be more specific when reading this reply. Moreover, the written word is sometimes misinterpreted due to the absense of voice inflection. Therefore, I apologize in advance for any offense you might take by my following remarks.
> 
> ...



i still do not understand what you are you are going on about.\

A few parts that made sense were out of context as you cherry picked my statements.
i will try to read thru your muddy wording to discern what you are trying to say.

Tell me if this is right: You feel it is practical and useful to be redundant in iteration to individuals who are showing no inclination to the value of the 
console (spelled right?) provided by the person or persons advice is sought of.
Have i got that right?

And why don't you think avatars are just a personal choice that are made solely for fun?

Did you know your IP number matches somebody else's screen name?


You are not from the Detroit area (not that it matters) why are you pretending you are? i say that because you dropped a big hint that gives you away.




Now would you please tell me what you want me to know:huh:?

BTW how's the the family doing?


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## gordchevy (Dec 5, 2008)

*No offense*

Hello hvclover,

Again no offense meant and I am sure you sincerely wish to help people. However, I still strongly recommend that you refrain from responding in any way that mght indicate that you are irritated. In other words, keep it to yourself. Simply give the advice and leave it at that. 

Finally, although you do not need to reply, I am more than willing to allow you the last word.

Warm Regards,
gordchevy alias "Muddy Wording"

P.S. - I am not sure what "IP number" you are referring to.




hvaclover said:


> i still do not understand what you are you are going on about.\
> 
> A few parts that made sense were out of context as you cherry picked my statements.
> i will try to read thru your muddy wording a discern what you are trying to say.
> ...


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## pipefitter636 (Nov 1, 2008)

gordchevy said:


> Helo pipefitter636,
> 
> In response to your remarks, please read my response to "hvaclover" if you have not already done so (it partly applies to you also). I will be even more candid with you, because I detect even more of a bad attitude in your remarks.
> 
> ...


What ever:laughing:


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## wmm (Nov 21, 2011)

*Furnace false starts on shutdown??*

When my furnace is shutting down after heating, it tries to restart for a second or two. It does this about 4 or 5 times each shutdown. A local tech called it a "false start", he changed the gas regulator and ignitor(wrong terms I'm sure).

I ordered a new board after reading this thread because I was having the same constant running problem for some time. This morning it decided to shut down by itself, but returned to the false starting problem.

Any Ideas?

Thanks
Ww


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

wmm said:


> When my furnace is shutting down after heating, it tries to restart for a second or two. It does this about 4 or 5 times each shutdown. A local tech called it a "false start", he changed the gas regulator and ignitor(wrong terms I'm sure).
> 
> I ordered a new board after reading this thread because I was having the same constant running problem for some time. This morning it decided to shut down by itself, but returned to the false starting problem.
> 
> ...


bad thermostat.


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## wmm (Nov 21, 2011)

That is what I thought too. I changed that first, sorry...I forgot to mention that. 

This morning it has worked properly a couple of times and a few times it did the false start. 

I should get the new board this Sat or Monday. Probably will not have much time to troubleshoot as I have to leave town for work.

Thanks for the speedy response.
Ww


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## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

How did such a simple problem turn in to a 4 page + post..........Oh I see a engineer was involved.


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## Doc Holliday (Mar 12, 2011)

wmm said:


> That is what I thought too. I changed that first, sorry...I forgot to mention that.
> 
> This morning it has worked properly a couple of times and a few times it did the false start.
> 
> ...


 
I was under the impression that you had already installed the new board. Yup, it's a control problem, so either the board or the stat is telling the furnace to come on and shut off. 

You can bypass the stat, completely removing it from circuit, and control the furnace at the board and see if the problem persists. I'd be willing to bet it does and that the board is the problem. 

Let us know and we'll walk you through how to do it.


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## wmm (Nov 21, 2011)

*New board installed*

Ok, board installed. Applied power at breaker box, then turned on switch on side of furnace and as soon as I did that a relay threw a quick spark. The thermostat was off. 

The relay is the one on the left in the picture. This is a picture of the old AMF one, the new one is a Potter Brumfield one. The relay on the board is labeled CRF. Two things...I don't know if I'm using proper terms here...I think it is a relay and I don't know what CRF stands for.

The fan will only turn on with the Thermostat in the ON position. In Auto, the burner lights, but no fan.

Ideas? seems to be similar to the old board.

Thanks


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## wmm (Nov 21, 2011)

Could the board be shorting out some how within the bracket holding it? I also noticed the pilot light seems to be a little longer...maybe 3 or 4 inches, could this have any affect on the running of the fan? thanks for the help, I wish i could get the auto mode working...don't like the fan running all the time.

Bill


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## small (Dec 6, 2011)

*blower satys on*

i have an electric furnace and the blower stays on i put a new relay in NO GOOD i put two new limit switches in NO GOOD THERE is a stack that i havent replaced.PLEASE HELP:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: it says coleman on the door but MORT EX on the blower 1988 trailer furnace


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## wmm (Nov 21, 2011)

Search for ” when blower comes on gas shuts off” 

I ended up replacing the entire circuit board, which was not difficult. I did not have the ability to replace a relay individually. This fixed everything for me.

Good luck


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## small (Dec 6, 2011)

i feel the same way YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RUDE to help some one .CAUSE i have the same problem and too need help PENNY TENNESSE


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## ahome3688 (Oct 27, 2017)

Hi. I need an advice with my Carrier 58gp125-111JA furnace before I buy a new board (PN SECO110018-00). The furnace's blower runs constantly now with the fan switch is in Auto or On. Heating works fine but the blower does not turn off after reaching the preset temperature. Gas turns on after temperature starts to fall. 
I have Honeywell thermostat Pro 4000. I disconnected Tstat but blower still running. The blower starts running right after turning the main power switch on.
When I turn the main power switch or the blower door switch ON, I hear no relay click and I do not see any evidence of a small sparks in the relay. The small sparks come when I slightly hit the relay with a screwdriver.

Should the blower's relay be ON position in default? or I should hear/see repay turning ON after powering? Should it blow without Tstat?
Any sensor that I need to test before replacing the board?

Would the board ICM271 be a right replacement for SECO 110018-00?
Tnx.


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## ahome3688 (Oct 27, 2017)

Carrier 58gp125-111JA furnace - board P/N SECO 110018-00


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