# Which is better? WAX or Non-Wax toilet ring?



## J187

Personally, I'll take a good ol fashioned wax ring anyday. I also don't really like the horned donuts. I prefer a plain ol wax ring, unless the closet flange is slightly below the floor height for some reason, installed poorly or new tile height, then I might go for the horned.


Some say The horn prevents a good wax seal, others are worried about catching an auger on it. I personally just think KISS Keep It Simple Stupid is the best moddo.


----------



## KUIPORNG

I also heard the famous wisdom "Tradition is most of the time better than new stuff".... in this case ... may be the pipe is a bit low though... making me want to try the non-wax type ... as the wax type fail ... I know may be it is somthing else completely causing the leak... but just give this as a possiblility.... so I bought the non-wax type from HD.... all I want to hear from a plumbing expect now is : go ahead... use the non-wax.. they are fine and solid... rather than somthing like " don't use them they are crab"...etc.... before my move tonight...


----------



## jdoherty

*neither is any better*

The issue here is not the material the ring is made of. The issue is actually how you set the toilet on the flange. They recommend that you lay the toilet on its side beside the flange and place the seal on the toilet bottom. The problem that I experience most is not being able to see the bolts line up with the holes and it kicks the toilet to the side and makes for a poor fit. Now the seal is worthless. 

The way I have solved this problem is to run a nut down on the bolts and secure it to the flange before I set the toilet. This holds the bolts in place and straight up and down. Then I use a seal with an extension. (wouldn't have to but somehow feel better about it) then place the seal over the flange and then set the toilet over the seal and protruding bolts then use the regular washer and nut to secure the toilet to the flange. 
Works for me.


----------



## KUIPORNG

Yes, I remember I didn't follow the instruction either by put the seal under the bottom of the toilet last time either... too difficult as it kind of not sticking onto it... instead i just lay it on the flange...

now with your approach, how do you determine the position of the bolts? should they go all the way to the end.... ? I remember last time, I didn't pay attention to that... just make sure the bolt can line up with the toilet somehow... may be it is off the hole a little bit.. causing the leak... but then how do I see if it line up... unless it is an industry standard that the bolt should go all the way to the end ....


----------



## send_it_all

Keeo in mind that it is not always the wax seal that is leaking. I have had two defective toilets in the last year and a half that have had internal cracks in the casting. Not fom overtightening the bolts, but way up inside the bottom of the toilet. Reset each of them three times before i figured out they were bad toilets.


----------



## Mike Swearingen

On 2-bolt toilets, the bolts go at 3 and 9 o'clock in relation to the flange hole, and the bolts can be held straight up in place with a bit of old wax ring or by the nuts method as described by jdoherty. I use both methods, and either will work.
A toilet flange should be flush on top of the finished floor level with only the thickness of the flange above finished floor level. If it is too low, it can be raised in various ways (mechaincially, or with extenders, or double wax rings, etc.).
I've always used wax rings, but I've been told that the new types work well, too. 
Your call.
Good Luck! Mike


----------



## That one Guy

under the asumption you have an abs flange and not an old lead flange if the flange is low I would use a flange spacer then a normal thicknes wax ring with or without plastic horn. But, you could also double the wax using a single wax with no horn on top of the first one. 

As stated by send it all above I have seen defective toilets in use for years before spotting any leaks. There is a injection hole on the bottom of the bowl that will look like it has been caulked over. These can leak very slowly and wont show for a while. 

In my opinion use wax, the only place I use something other than wax is wall hung tiolets and urinals. Then I use a neoprene gasket.


----------



## KUIPORNG

Thanks for all the advice and information... If a toilet is defective...i.e. leak... is it always be able to be spot by eye if carefully looking? anyhow... I am going to try this installation then see what happen... if it leak again... I will go to HD to negotiate with them because this is a very expensive toilet I bought from them, together with the water tank, is more expensive than my beatiful solid wood $400 coffee table... this is the top of the line enviromental elongated high tech flush master American Standard model.... I will expect seating on it like driving a Lexus...


----------



## majakdragon

I have not tried the new seals because I have never had a problem with the "tried and true" wax seals. I make sure the toilet bottom and flange are clean, install the bolts, set the wax seal on the flange and squish a small amount of the seal onto the bolts to hold them straight upright. Eyeball the bolts through the holes in the toilet base and sit straight down. I apply downward pressure to seat the toilet onto the seal. Snug bolts evenly. Although many pros will use a double seal, they can slide when installing the toilet. Better to either buy a flange extender or a thicker seal. Guess I am just too old to switch now.


----------



## Ron The Plumber

Wax only rings, proven by the pros in the plumbing field, what more do you need to know.


----------



## KUIPORNG

Thanks for the reply.... I anyhow... intall the non-wax type... I put the toilet on and pull water onto it... let it seat for a few days... before installing the water flushing system.... so far so good.... this arrangement is kind of by accident because I run out of nuts because I used the two extra nuts on the two veritcal stuff as suggested above... anyhow... will see later on...


----------



## 24hourapartments

*Commercial toilet*

1. Commercial toillets do not have a tank. Why?

2. why do they use this type?

3. If they leak, where would it be?

4. How much do these toilets cost?

--Scott


----------



## End Grain

I always buy the extra thick wax rings with the bell mouth molded into them. Since a toilet bowl ring is rarely changed, and since floors are very different (uneven, high, broken) and since closet flanges are often broken or weak and since toilet bowl holes differ slightly, I prefer to seat a good thick ring of wax with the extended bell mouth underneath them. I press the bowl down to seat the ring and squish it. That way, I know there's virtually no chance of seeping or leaking. With non-wax rings, there's always the off chance that seepage will occur at some point.


----------



## majakdragon

24hourapartments, 

1) Saves maintenance and people playing with them.
2) The Sloan type valves used in commercial applications dump a large volume of water very quickly. This pretty much guarantees a full flush. No broken or stolen tank lids to worry about.
3) Same as a home toilet usually. They are either floor mounted or wall mounted and still have a wax or rubber ring to seal them. Wall hung also require a mounting bracket inside (tubular steel) the wall to assure it doesn't get torn off by weight applied.Unless the flush valve is banged around, they seldom leak. They have a diaphram inside with a weep-hole that sometimes clogs up, but it is a simple fix.
4) They are not cheap. Commercial grade is always more expensive. They are also sold only by dealers and not at HD or Lowes. The flush-valve and related piping is around $150. Then you pay for the commode.


----------



## jpplumber

If by "high tech" you mean foam ring...they have been used on urinals for years and will work just as well as long as you have the right thickness, it is the same material as on the toilet tank to bowl gasket. I've also pulled some old toilets that must of had a whole tub of plumbers putty squashed underneath for the seal...it worked. Having said that.... I prefer to use the wax ring with no plastic cone.


----------



## Accularian

This became really simple for me tonight as I installed a new toilet in a 50 year old house. All the advise was to use wax... even from my plumber brother-in-law. I chose the FluidMaster Better-than-Wax product because I knew I would be removing the toilet again in a few months to remodel the bathroom and simply did not want the mess of wax.

After the install... which went without a hitch, I came to understand that toilets move... especially if very large people sit on them. Wax does not snap back to the original installed position of the toilet. Toilets move. Wax moves and stays!

No more wax for me. I am sold.


----------

