# New drywall - so many primer choices



## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Priming drywall is one of the most basic duties for primers. 
Go with the Drywall Primer- don't tint because you are using light colors and you can use it on all walls/ceilings. 
You might want to pick up some lightweight filler in case you see something after prime that needs a bit of mud- paint never fills. Sand and spot prime any of those and 2 full coats quality finish and yer golden!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Primer and paint will not fix the flaws, take the time to fix them before doing anything.
Nothing wrong with the Sherwin Williams products but I just use Zinzeer 123 and never had any issues.
There's no need to tint with that light a color.
Make sure to use flat paint on the ceiling.


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## mmcormick (Jan 1, 2013)

joecaption said:


> Primer and paint will not fix the flaws, take the time to fix them before doing anything.
> Nothing wrong with the Sherwin Williams products but I just use Zinzeer 123 and never had any issues.
> There's no need to tint with that light a color.
> Make sure to use flat paint on the ceiling.


Thanks for the great replies! I was planning on eggshell on walls and ceilings, but now the plan is:

Standard SW Drywall Primer, Eggshell on walls, flat on ceiling, satin on trim. 

Have I got the right plan?

Thanks again for the quick replies. I appreciate it. Mark


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan to me. Come back and let us know how it turns out.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

First, good for you for educating yourself before starting.

However, what you're suggesting is overkill. You definitely don't need to sand after your first coat of finish paint. You probably don't need to sand after the primer coat either. The reason is that with 2 coats of paint coming, there is enough solids or bulk there to cover any tiny imperfections could cause. Of course it couldn't hurt, especially if there are roller hairs or whatever that have found their way in there. But if you did a decent job, I wouldn't bother.

Now on to your real cost and labor savings. If the drywall finish is good and sanded smooth, you don't really need to use a primer at all if you use 2 coats of a good quality paint. Since you're using eggshell, you will definitely need 2 coats. But with a paint like SuperPaint, 2 coats over bare drywall is fine. Yes, this is acceptable and warranted by Sherwin Williams. (Benjamin Moore is the same way).


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mmcormick said:


> Standard SW Drywall Primer, Eggshell on walls, flat on ceiling, satin on trim.


I prefer flat in the bedroom, eggshell in the bathroom, and semi-gloss trim, but to each his own. If you prefer the sheen of eggshell in your bedroom that's a personal preference, but you might prefer an "in between sheen" such as Matte, found in SW Duration or BM Aura.


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## mmcormick (Jan 1, 2013)

ToolSeeker said:


> Sounds like a good plan to me. Come back and let us know how it turns out.


Now I'm even more confused than before.. help! I talked to the painting contractor tonight and told him that I wanted a coat of drywall primer throughout. He said, "You don't need primer... it's just watered down flat paint. Just paint the whole room - ceilings and walls - with flat paint and then put color on the walls. Primer is just a waste of money." 

So who is right? I bought a 5'er of SW Drywall Primer and my painter says its totally unnecessary. What do I do??

Help. Please!!

Mark


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mmcormick said:


> Now I'm even more confused than before.. help! I talked to the painting contractor tonight and told him that I wanted a coat of drywall primer throughout. He said, "You don't need primer... it's just watered down flat paint. Just paint the whole room - ceilings and walls - with flat paint and then put color on the walls. Primer is just a waste of money."


Well I already told you - read my previous post 

Of course drywall primer and/or sealer is not just watered down flat paint. But he is correct that drywall primer is often not necessary.

Sherwin Williams SuperPaint is a paint I use often. Read what SW has to say about application

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777036921/

So it is completely warranted and recommended without a primer over drywall. (And yes, satin is the same - 2 coats obviously.)


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

mmcormick said:


> Now I'm even more confused than before.. help! I talked to the painting contractor tonight and told him that I wanted a coat of drywall primer throughout. He said, "You don't need primer... it's just watered down flat paint. Just paint the whole room - ceilings and walls - with flat paint and then put color on the walls. Primer is just a waste of money."
> 
> So who is right? I bought a 5'er of SW Drywall Primer and my painter says its totally unnecessary:laughing:. What do I do??
> 
> ...


The contractor is a hack. Primer is primer, made to seal and add a surface for the real paint to stick to. Yes, you could just use the finish paints with multiple coats but look at the cost. The primer is cheaper than the finish coats.I would prime all, paint the ceilings flat, walls matte, trim semi gloss, eggshell for bath and kitchens.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Find a new contractor as soon as possible.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

chrisn said:


> Primer is primer, made to seal and add a surface for the real paint to stick to. Yes, you could just use the finish paints with multiple coats but look at the cost.


We do this about every 6 months, but let's do it again.

"Real paint" sticks to drywall just fine. The manufacturers agree.

Now as to the cost....

First compare 1 coat of primer and 2 finish coats, with just 2 finish coats. Hopefully this one's obvious - skipping the primer is cheaper.

Now compare a situation that I encounter in the real world with real paint - like Sherwin Williams SuperPaint. Most colors are going to go on in 1 coat. So compare 1 coat of primer and 1 finish coat, with 2 finish coats. Is the primer cheaper now? Not necessarily. Let's say you're painting a master bedroom that's 15x13 with 9' ceilings - pretty typical. This room is too big to cover with 1 gallon - it takes 2. So you need 2 gallons of $15 primer, and 2 gallons of $30 paint, for a total of $90. Guess what? To put on 2 coats of paint takes only 3 gallons, for a total of $90.

Granted, most homeowners can't buy SuperPaint for as low as $30 retail, but there are sales - 20-40% off is not uncommon. Although I haven't used it myself, I've heard reports and seen results of 1 coat coverage with Behr Premium Plus Ultra, and that's in the $30 price range.

And don't forget the added cost and/or cleaning labor of multiple brushes and rollers and roller pans if using separate primer and paint.

And if cost savings is really your bag, then go completely crazy and get 2 gallons of SuperPaint in Flat and just paint 1 coat right over that bare drywall. No, the manufacturer doesn't "warranty" it, but guess what? The paint isn't going to fail, and it is going to work - in most typical colors.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Really don't want to start an argument but I have to totally disagree. I use a lot of super Paint and I think it is a very good paint, especially when it is used as paint. I am not going to do all this prep work then take a chance of flashing on the new mud in the seams and on the corner bead and nail heads. When all I have to do is prime like I contracted to do and I don't have to worry. I feel primer is about the cheapest insurance out there. I am not going to risk my paint job just to save a little bit on primer a product I know will work. I think the last 4 words of you post say a lot.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

ToolSeeker said:


> I am not going to do all this prep work then take a chance of flashing


I was talking about flat paint. Eggshell is going to take a minimum of 2 coats, or primer/sealer and 1 coat to avoid flashing. But the minimum usually works.



ToolSeeker said:


> I think the last 4 words of you post say a lot.


I didn't mean them to - since no manufacturer is going to warranty 1 coat over bare drywall. But as a practical matter, it will often work, and anyone can try it out. There's no harm in putting on one coat and seeing what it looks like. If you're happy, you can stop. If not, put on another coat like the manufacturer says.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry Jeff- I do not agree. 
A sheened paint, to get full coverage, not just of color but of a sealed enough surface to come to full sheen, takes 3 coats. 
You can use all paint, but it is a waste- primer does it better and cheaper.
If you go to touch up a spot on something with 2 coats over raw- the flash will be very dramatic, because the rest of the wall will not be as completely sealed.
There are a couple of exceptions- builders flat, which I would never use for anything, and the highest end paints like Aura. And even with aura I like to prime because is is just better.

And Primer and one coat, even with aura is a bad idea. Seldom works.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> Sorry Jeff- I do not agree.
> A sheened paint, to get full coverage, not just of color but of a sealed enough surface to come to full sheen, takes 3 coats.


It does not always. And my eyes are good.



Brushjockey said:


> You can use all paint, but it is a waste- primer does it better and cheaper.


Sometimes, sometimes not. Reread my math and tell me specifically what part you disagree with.



Brushjockey said:


> And Primer and one coat, even with aura is a bad idea. Seldom works.


I'd like to know your definition of "works" and "seldom". In my experience, it "often" "works". By my definition, that means in most typical modern, pastel-type colors, and covering other pastel-type colors, in flat, it "works" because the wall looks good and has solid color with no bleed-through. Good quality paints have enough titanium dioxide and other solids in them in the white-base colors that this simply works often enough.

Now, maybe we should talk about "good quality" paint, and coverage. I should say I don't get 400 sf of coverage when I apply the paint. Maybe I should have said that, but it's just something I assume when going for 1 coat - I'm looking at around 325 sf of coverage, which according to the manufacturers is a generous coat. Sherwin Williams claims for SuperPaint 1.6 mils thickness. Now I'm not sure at what coverage that is exactly because they specify 350-400. If we assume some people spread this paint at 400 sf and manage to get 1.6 mils thickness, then when dropping to 325 you're looking at about a 23% increase in paint thickness, so I'm looking closer to 2 mils. That can be a huge difference especially when comparing apples to oranges.

Let's say a contractor is putting on 2 coats of a builder grade paint, like ProMar 700 or Property Solution. Now you are looking at 1.1 mils at Sherwin Williams specs. Since they know they have that second coat coming, they are not afraid to press on that roller to spread the paint, or they get a bit lazy with either coat and press too light. Let's call it 1 mil under these conditions. So now you are literally looking at the difference being only 1 coat as I do it, and 2 coats as some other contractor would do it. Yes, they might actually be the same thickness of paint.

And guess what? Aura is actually 2 mils _as spec'ed._ A "generous" application can actually be thicker than 2 coats of cheaper stuff. In other words, pretty much what the manufacturer advertises.

So let's be careful when we talk about some people using 2 coats and other people using 1 coat. We need to get down to details, and we do the DIY community a disservice if we speak in vague terms like "1 coat" or "2 coats". Sometimes the difference between 1 and 2 coats is just labor.


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## Brushjockey (Mar 8, 2011)

Go put your specs on the pro board. Someone made some claims like that and there is so much experience there it is going to get qualified quite well.
I live in the land of flat walls, and I like a very subtle stipple. To heap it on and have heavy stipple does not look good at all to me- cheapens the job. 

If it works for you- fine. 
It hasn't for me. One coat over one primer will always be less than. And that is if your technique is perfect. Any light spot and your sunk.

And because this is the DIY board, to tell them to cut a corner because it might look good enough is the wrong message.
IMO, of course.


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## Will22 (Feb 1, 2011)

I feel bad for the OP here.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Brushjockey said:


> I live in the land of flat walls, and I like a very subtle stipple. To heap it on and have heavy stipple does not look good at all to me- cheapens the job.


I think you're exaggerating what I said. "Generous" and "heaping it on" aren't the same.

BM Aura specs 2.0 mils at recommended coverage.

I'm not using 1/2" nap, I'm using Purdy White Dove in 3/8" to get that coverage, so it is smooth. Thicker coat does not necessarily mean heavy stipple.

Today's quality paints are thick enough that 325 sf coverage is not a problem. But as I said, recommended coverage alone starts at 1.6 mils for SuperPaint and 2.0 mils for Aura. This blows away the approximate 1.0 mils of cheaper paints, so the point is to compare apples to apples, and I don't see much of that happening, do you?


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## Mr. Paint (Nov 10, 2011)

Drywall primers provide an even porosity to the surface so that your eggshell will have an even sheen throughout. If a painter just thins the wall paint he is spreading the solids too thin, raising the fuzz on the face paper creating an overall mess. I agree - find a better painter.

I agree with a previous post, use an eggshell sheen on the bath ceiling. Using a flat will create water spotting, perhaps bubbling and peeling,


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## cdaniels (Dec 27, 2012)

mmcormick said:


> Now I'm even more confused than before.. help! I talked to the painting contractor tonight and told him that I wanted a coat of drywall primer throughout. He said, "You don't need primer... it's just watered down flat paint. Just paint the whole room - ceilings and walls - with flat paint and then put color on the walls. Primer is just a waste of money."
> 
> So who is right? I bought a 5'er of SW Drywall Primer and my painter says its totally unnecessary. What do I do??
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor and prime the drywall.Whether you use a flat-satin or eggshell finish paint the sheen will be more uniform and and your finish will be smoother.Also use 2 coats of finish paint you will be glad you did. :thumbsup:


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cdaniels said:


> Do yourself a favor and prime the drywall.Whether you use a flat-satin or eggshell finish paint the sheen will be more uniform and and your finish will be smoother.Also use 2 coats of finish paint you will be glad you did. :thumbsup:


FYI, with 2 coats of flat finish paint - you will definitely not notice a sheen difference with primer or without. Unless perhaps you're using crappy paint.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Mr. Paint said:


> If a painter just thins the wall paint he is spreading the solids too thin, raising the fuzz on the face paper creating an overall mess. I agree - find a better painter.


The painter did not say he was going to thin any paint. The painter claimed that primer was basically watered down finish paint. (Primer is normally going to be thinner than a high solids finish paint, but still this is a pretty silly thing to say.)


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## cdaniels (Dec 27, 2012)

jeffnc said:


> FYI, with 2 coats of flat finish paint - you will definitely not notice a sheen difference with primer or without. Unless perhaps you're using crappy paint.


In certain light,a flat will flash when touched up if the walls are not primed no matter what grade paint you use.I have seen it for the last 25+ years.FYI


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

cdaniels said:


> In certain light,a flat will flash when touched up if the walls are not primed no matter what grade paint you use.I have seen it for the last 25+ years.FYI


Yes, but touch up is different from 2 full coats.


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## jsheridan (Jan 30, 2011)

I think part of the problem here Jeff, beyond mils, is that you're bucking the consensus here. This is a primer plus two kind of site, we're old fashioned that way. Brushjockey and Chrisn are correct to say that your argument is better suited for a pro site, no offense. We're here to counsel DIY's on best practices, those that will give the least chance of trouble while providing the best possible outcome. From the SW site that you encouraged me to check, the Super Paint TDS;
*Drywall*
Self-prime using 2 cts. of SuperPaint
Interior Latex Flat
or
1 ct. Premium Wall & Wood Primer​
2 cts. SuperPaint Interior Latex Flat,

That "or" tells me one thing, they're happier with one plus two, it's a better best type of recommendation. The discussion of finish as a base and paint and primer in one has been debated here till the cows came home, and left, and came home again. As pros we operate in different ways, with different job needs and under different budgets. But here we have to come to a consensus in our approach to the DIY's who seek our help. We can't be debating basic questions, to them that is, and confusing them with numbers and viewpoints that might stimulate a pro but have little bearing on people who just want to know what primer to use on their drywall. And to people who sometimes think any paint is paint, you're advice could easily be taken as a green light to use any finish as a base. They don't always make distinctions like we do, and that could get them in trouble. It's pretty simple really.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

OK if you read back the whole thread not 1 person agrees with you, well over 100 years of experience says your wrong. What I don't understand is the point. You are going to take a paint slop it on twice as thick as recommended, not worrying about runs, sags, drips, and splatter. Then you compare this to Aura because it is formulated to be 2 mils thick. Now that you are putting this on so thick I think you need to refigure your savings. By admission you say this will work with most typical colors- primer will work with all colors. Even if your figures in the beginning hold up, your doing all this, taking a chance of a bad job and all to save as you said $15 in primer. There is a reason painters contract for primer and 2 coats-because that is what works. We would't make any more money doing it our way so why is everyone so against your way. Because it MAY work most of the time but will not work the rest of the time and who wants to take that chance. All I can say is if this works for you keep doing it, but I guarantee it will come back and bite you in the arse.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

jeffnc said:


> You have got to be joking me.
> 
> How are you any different? Claiming your way is the only right way?
> 
> ...


 
no joke
I do not
I can
You won't


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## creeper (Mar 11, 2011)

Look Jeff:

I'm just a regular homeowner. As far away from pro as one can get. But I love this place because of the great knowledge that I am able to gain on a consistent basis. 

So far this morning I've read at least 3 threads where you are coming off as a know it all trouble maker just looking to stir it up. 
Sorry if you don't like what I said but I'm entitled to my point of view.
I wouldn't take your advice because of it.


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## mmcormick (Jan 1, 2013)

I am the OP. Thank you to everyone for your advice and opinions.

FWIW, I will be priming. I was hoping to get some help with all of the different primers, but I think I'll just use SW Drywall Primer. I will, however, be priming.


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## bigchaz (Jun 28, 2006)

mmcormick said:


> I am the OP. Thank you to everyone for your advice and opinions.
> 
> FWIW, I will be priming. I was hoping to get some help with all of the different primers, but I think I'll just use SW Drywall Primer. I will, however, be priming.


Hi Mcormik, I am a homeowner as well and I used the SW drywall primer in my bathroom where I had lots of bare drywall and tons of patching. It worked really good. I also used the SW Multi purpose primer in my living room, but that area didn't have as much bare drywall just some patched areas. 

I was glad I primed because it allowed me to see the wall better and address any areas I needed to sand or patch a little better before I painted.

I lightly sanded after the primer coat but not after doing the first paint coat. I probably didn't even need to sand after the primer either, the walls were already smooth since it was sanded after patching everything.


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