# Battery Dead Again - Infrequent use, how to store battery ?



## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-P...ng-Term-Parking-3-year-warranty-/151666565984


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## JohnyFever (Apr 7, 2017)

Thank you - that would probably work, but it's not parked in area that gets sun. I've considered that for my boat though and should probably pick one up. 

As for the car battery - If the cables were disconneced while the battery sat under the hood, how long would or should a fully charged battery last ? I'm in the North East and it's cold. Thanks


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Taught in Auto repair school.

A fully charged battery, in excellent condition, will last as long as the factory warranty, if it is not hooked to a drain.

So per Professor Reed, Your theory of disconnecting the battery will be a good thing.

Also a fully charged battery will not freeze, but a dead battery will freeze, and warp the lead plates, thus causing at least one dead cell.

Ruining said battery. 

So only unhook a fully charged battery.

I have discovered that a digital clock, like on most stereo systems, will drain a battery, So it might be more than the security alarm draining your battery.

ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

If just unhooking would work just install another relay and turn everything off with a switch.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

buy another trickle charger/battery maintainer. they're not expensive.


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## JohnyFever (Apr 7, 2017)

Thanks Everyone ! Appreciate the responses and info. Have a Happy New Year !


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

I have 4 Battery Tender Plus battery maintainers that have been in service for over 10 years... they pay for themselves. Your battery will last longer than what it is warrantied.

Also, instead of hooking and unhooking battery cables check into a battery disconnect.... they are less than 10 dollars.

http://www.batterystock.com/product...6V24V-125-Amp-Battery-Disconnect-Switch-24865


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

If the battery is in good condition and fully charged it will usually be good to crank for a couple of months. If disconnecting cables try disconnecting only the negative, less work and lessens the odds of a battery exploding in your face. Google charging multiple batteries with one charger in case you would prefer going that direction.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Schumacher Electric 12-Volt Car Battery Charger/Maintainer

$19.98 at Lowes










I have one of these I use for the battery to my riding mower. 

At the end of the season, I remove the battery from the mower, clean the terminals and connect the battery charger/maintainer to it. In the spring I put it back in the mower now fully charged and ready to go.

I have done this for three seasons now and every time the mower has started with no issues.

$20 well spent IMO.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

The battery is just one issue with a seldom-used vehicle. It's good to get the vehicle warmed up and on the road at least a few times a month. Keep everything lubed and in good working order, prevent dead spots in the tires, etc.
.
.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> As for the car battery - If the cables were disconneced while the battery sat under the hood, how long would or should a fully charged battery last ? I'm in the North East and it's cold.


Disconnecting the battery (or letting the battery go dead) isn’t good on your 2002 Jeep. It will cause loss of info in the computer (engine control modual).

You will most likely lose the error codes that are used for diagnosing problems. You may lose the drivability settings which can make the vehicle run poorly for the first 20 miles or so. 

Exactly what happens depends on the exact make/model/year.

I’d put a battery maintainer on it.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

My motorcycle and lawn tractor live on tenders in unheated space all winter. the missus' Miata spends its winter in heated storage. I make sure I give it a good run to charge it up before driving it in, and the site owner pulls a battery terminal after he finally positions the car. Haven't had a problem yet.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Oso954 said:


> Disconnecting the battery (or letting the battery go dead) isn’t good on your 2002 Jeep. It will cause loss of info in the computer (engine control modual).
> 
> You will most likely lose the error codes that are used for diagnosing problems. You may lose the drivability settings which can make the vehicle run poorly for the first 20 miles or so.
> 
> ...


Also it has been my experience that letting a vehicle sit is way more harmful then constantly driving it. Especially if the vehicle is stored outside even when covered.

I keep my Low Rider in the garage on a tender.
But I start it 
Move it back and forth
Shift the gears 
Use both brakes.

Once a week.


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## Mr.Vile (Dec 19, 2018)

JohnyFever,
I'm a little late to the party but, if your vehicle is parked outside, a solar battery maintainer should get enough indirect sunlight to keep the battery charged. I use one for my tractor, which is in the shade, and it works.

-Mike


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## l_n_r_carrs (Jun 23, 2018)

Depending on what you mean by not using the jeep very much, if you start it once a week and drive around the block a couple of times it should not go bad less than a normal battery which is average 3yrs. But some batteries last longer. Use a trickle charge, Have a garage mechanic that is professional in electrical repairs check for a short. If all else fails you can buy reconditioned batteries that last about 2 yrs or more and save some money. good luck. A grandson had a similar problem, found he left the dome light on.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

l_n_r_carrs said:


> Depending on what you mean by not using the jeep very much, if you start it once a week and drive around the block a couple of times it should not go bad less than a normal battery which is average 3yrs. But some batteries last longer. Use a trickle charge, Have a garage mechanic that is professional in electrical repairs check for a short. If all else fails you can buy reconditioned batteries that last about 2 yrs or more and save some money. good luck. A grandson had a similar problem, found he left the dome light on.


Just a short drive around the block might not do as battery charging likes high rpm's. You dont even have to "drive it". just warm up engine to hot, then rev engine to high rpm's and hold for a while. Repeat a few times. Will do more for battery than a drive around the block. 

That's what I understand, but debates welcome.


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## carmusic (Oct 11, 2011)

papereater said:


> Just a short drive around the block might not do as battery charging likes high rpm's. You dont even have to "drive it". just warm up engine to hot, then rev engine to high rpm's and hold for a while. Repeat a few times. Will do more for battery than a drive around the block.
> 
> That's what I understand, but debates welcome.


that may charge the battery but it will harm the motor, idling a motor isnt good at all, it needs to go on the road to get all parts hot and evacuate any condensation


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

There is some good advice here. A maintainer or disconnecting the battery, either will work. disadvantages with disconnect are noted above. The parasitic drain on a battery varies with the model of the car. Things sometimes go awry and the idle load is increased then the observation is that the car can't sit like it used to and still start up. You can check that, but with mod vehicles it is not as easy in the olden days. Still, not hard and instruction can be found on the via a search. You need an ammeter and a way to patch it into your main battery connections so you can monitor current some time after it is reconnected.

P.S. Sometimes there are temporary problems or intermittent ones that drain a battery. My wife's car battery went dead after sitting for 9 days recently. A relay must have stuck in the wrong position or something. Unfortunately, battery life will suffer.

On a model familiar with me with a door key pad, the pads can leak water as they age activating some lights. Some shops are familiar with the problem, but otherwise, it is hard to figure out why the battery goes dead since no one watches the car all night in the rain.


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## HenryMac (Sep 12, 2018)

papereater said:


> Just a short drive around the block might not do as battery charging likes high rpm's. You dont even have to "drive it". just warm up engine to hot, then rev engine to high rpm's and hold for a while. Repeat a few times. Will do more for battery than a drive around the block.
> 
> That's what I understand, but debates welcome.


With all due respect... that is some pretty bad advice. The best thing you can do for a motor that isn't driven much is not start it at all unless you plan on driving it quite a distance.

All the "engine to hot" via the temperature gauge tells you is the coolant temperature.

To drive off all the moisture in the oil you need to drive the vehicle for quite a while after it is up to temperature.

If you don't, the oil can turn acidic, and that's bad for all the internal components.

So if your goal is keeping the battery charged... buy a Battery Tender Plus or similar device that keeps the battery charged.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

I keep a battery tender on my 55 Chevy in the garage. Drive it maybe 300 miles a year to local cruises. I use the Red top optima batteries and my last one lasted 10 years. I use the optima's because the battery is in the trunk.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

​


HenryMac said:


> With all due respect... that is some pretty bad advice. The best thing you can do for a motor that isn't driven much is not start it at all unless you plan on driving it quite a distance.
> 
> All the "engine to hot" via the temperature gauge tells you is the coolant temperature.
> 
> ...


I would not characterize my post as "pretty bad advice". That advice was intended as an alternative only, and not a bad one at that, especially since I included the warning that it had to be with a hot engine, which is good advice. And revving should be at about 2500-3500, not crazy redline rpm's at 6000-7000. (I did not include that- just assumed a DIY mech would know that. Reving high with a cold engine- now that would be bad advice. 

A 5 minute ride around the block will do nothing to expel moisture (and demons like inorganic/organic acids) from old sitting oil- that required at least 15-20 minutes of driving. Would you agree, Henry?

And I do not know where you would expect the heat energy absorbed by a well functioning rad system to come from, if not a hot engine. Anything other than that would be Frankenstein Physics, Frankenstein Thermodynamics. 

I do agree that a tender could help. Even better, find that voltage drain/drop.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

papereater said:


> ​
> but debates welcome.
> 
> I would not characterize my post as "pretty bad advice".


I'd characterize it as bad and you certainly are not welcoming debate.

Both idling it and driving it around the block a couple of times are bad. Best is to whenever the vehicle is started up it should be driven with the engine fully warmed up for a significant time to give enough time to drive foul stuff out of the engine oil and exhaust system. Time will depend on the vehicle and on the weather. A big block Detroit V* won't even get warm enough to provide any heat to the cabin in 15 minutes at highway speed at -30 F. An I4 probably will.


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## AmyInNH (Jul 27, 2017)

a) If I can remember right (many years back), my similar experience was a bad alternator, not charging the battery when it was run, and replacing battery is not going to fix bad alternator.
b) Every time I've ever needed a jump, I was told it takes at least 15 minutes at high speed to recharge it. So the various "run it a bit" doesn't sound like that's going to keep your battery charged.
c) We've a seldomly used car on the driveway for 10 years, in NH, and it hasn't had any effect on that car's battery charge. Likely it's not the cold.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

I'm not sure if it's an Alaska thing, but I've never heard of leaving a battery in a car you're not planning on using at least once a month. In the winter, you gotta bring them in if you're not using them daily.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

AmyInNH said:


> a) If I can remember right (many years back), my similar experience was a bad alternator, not charging the battery when it was run, and replacing battery is not going to fix bad alternator. .


True, that is why when you get your car to a shop or an auto parts store (or AAA shows up to start you) they don't just check the battery, they check the alternator output.



AmyInNH said:


> b) Every time I've ever needed a jump, I was told it takes at least 15 minutes at high speed to recharge it. So the various "run it a bit" doesn't sound like that's going to keep your battery charged.


Alternators vary somewhat in the rpm that it takes to reach maximum output(more likely more often rated as 50% or 90% rated output because it is easier to measure). They also vary in the amount of overcapacity from model to model or even application of that particular variant. Police models have higher output alternators historically. They don't need them so much for lights and siren anymore, but radio transmission always sucked a lot of juice and now they all run computers. If you want an extreme example, look at a rolling chassis that is bound for EMT ambulance use vs. over the road truck. The former is probably going to have a much higher output alternator, but in addition, the output will rise with RPM much faster.



AmyInNH said:


> c) We've a seldomly used car on the driveway for 10 years, in NH, and it hasn't had any effect on that car's battery charge. Likely it's not the cold.


Cold is good for batteries if they are fully charged so they don't freeze. Heat is bad.


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## AmyInNH (Jul 27, 2017)

Too funny! Yes, bringing your battery in would be an Alaska thing.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

Mystriss said:


> I'm not sure if it's an Alaska thing, but I've never heard of leaving a battery in a car you're not planning on using at least once a month. In the winter, you gotta bring them in if you're not using them daily.



The freezing point of the electrolyte in a flooded cell, lead-sulfuric acid battery is generally given as -77 F if fully charged. This drops, however, to about 20 F if the battery is "dead". You can look this stuff up easily for flooded cell batteries. It is not rocket science. I can't say how it differs for AGM batteries, but the manufacturers must provide that info.



The freeze resistance falls off pretty quickly with charge state. At 75% charge, you are looking at a freezing point of -35 F so you'd best be careful for a good bit of the Alaska winter. Also keep in mind that unless the battery is equalized, some cells may freeze significantly cooler than others.


Since batteries build sulfate on their plates with any discharge at all, I believe that connecting a good float charger is the best way to keep a battery in shape. I'd be sure it is a good quality, regulated float charger and not a trickle charger. Since decent batteries are going to set you back over c-note today, I believe it to be a good investment.


If you don't use a charger, you should disconnect the negative battery terminal. Here is why. A battery with a reserve capacity of 120 minutes is typical. That works out to 50 Ah. If you have a very respectable 25 mAh parasitic load, ignoring inherent self-discharge the battery will be down to half capacity in 1000 h (25000/25). Let's call that a month. You actually have longer than that because reserve capacity is measured with a 25 A load and at slower discharge, capacity is higher. The battery will be aging fast, however, due to sulfation at even a fraction of that. 



If you unhook the battery, you go a long way to fixing it, but you lose stored information that your engine has accumulated, as well as radio and other presets. Unhooking the battery will fatigue the clamps and is much more of a PITA than hooking up a float charger. It still does not prevent sulfation like a float charger can.


No, I do not own stock in or represent companies that sell float chargers.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

ionized said:


> I'd characterize it as bad and you certainly are not welcoming debate.
> 
> Both idling it and driving it around the block a couple of times are bad. Best is to whenever the vehicle is started up it should be driven with the engine fully warmed up for a significant time to give enough time to drive foul stuff out of the engine oil and exhaust system. Time will depend on the vehicle and on the weather. A big block Detroit V* won't even get warm enough to provide any heat to the cabin in 15 minutes at highway speed at -30 F. An I4 probably will.


1)You did not characterize it as bad, you characterized it as pretty bad (which is pretty bad for a fellow member).

2) I always welcome debate. You are confusing the debate welcome with you doubling down on your Frankenstein science, which is not welcome, nor useful, nor accurate. Heat from a rad comes from the energy from a combustion engine. Dont keep trying to spin this to prop up your credibility. 

3) You have dodged ineffectively your initial conviction that heat from an engine does not transmit to the rad coolant.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

@ionized Yeah, that's why we just bring in all the batteries full time, rather than risk it, constantly have to check their charges and stuff. We've got a shelf dedicated to all the rolling stock batteries.


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

AmyInNH said:


> Too funny! Yes, bringing your battery in would be an Alaska thing.


And to all the Canucks on this forum, using an engine block heater would be a Canadian thing.

:biggrin2:
.
.


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

ZZZZZ said:


> And to all the Canucks on this forum, using an engine block heater would be a Canadian thing.
> 
> :biggrin2:
> .
> .



Not really an issue in southern Ontario, a lot of the Maritimes and the Left Coast, but otherwise you're right. I haven't plugged-in since I moved back down years ago. It used to be that all vehicles sold in Canada came with a block heater - not so much anymore. It about a $250 option.


We used to have to haul the batteries out of our aircraft up north if we couldn't overnight near power in the winter. There's something really special about hauling around a couple of heavy lead acid batteries at -40C. That and putting on heavy, half-frozen canvas wing and engine covers on a high wing aircraft, particularly when it's windy.


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

At least two things have made block heaters less important. Better oils don't get as thick in the extreme cold. 0W-20 is mighty fine stuff in a modern engine across a wide temperature range and it makes them turn over _much_ easier at low temperatures. The switch to fuel injection from carburetors was a big advance. A well designed, adjusted and maintained carb can start a very cold engine pretty well, but not all were good even from the factory. When the temps were far into the low double digits, my dad would say that you have one chance to get it started. That meant take your time (to let the fuel vaporize after setting the choke and pumping in the extra fuel), and know the drill in the manual and know whether an extra pump of the pedal might be good or bad for your particular vehicle.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jul 17, 2018)

^^^ but I run 0W-40 because VANOS. it's only slightly thicker than 0W-20.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

We have block heaters on all our vehicles up here, some of them even have battery warmers. Honestly, we never plug any of them in. The Subaru's could care less if it's 40 below and the Chevy small block does really well without being plugged in.


My now sold Dodge Durango... not so much, she was super finicky and soon as it got around 0F she'd throw fits about being parked outside at all, plugged in or not. We called her our "spoiled car" since she ended up in the garage all winter


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## ionized (Jun 8, 2012)

This looks like a pretty darned good battery resource. I just had a quick trip through there. It has a lot of information that I would want to dredge up every few years. 



http://www.jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/



I saw one part or in one link, the writer defined the period between drives needed to prevent sulfation as weekly to biweekly at most. It also reminded me of the importance of having temperature compensation circuits in battery chargers.


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