# Frozen brake



## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

To start off, I never use an emergency brake. Backed out of my driveway in my '95 Lumina APV and when I tried to go forward, the left rear wheel won't turn. It turns fine in reverse. I have seen this on cars where people had the emergency brake on and it froze, but I never use one. I wonder if it being bitterly cold outside could cause the problem? Any guesses? It will be too cold for a few days to tear it down. Thought about just cutting the cable on the back of the brake drum.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

Can't you take wheel off and manually back off PB shoes? I am presuming it's standard PB inside rotor GM set up? No, you have drum brake rear and same shoes work as parking brake and it's likely self adjustable. Grrr... It still should have back off provision. I'd try that and do NOT use PB thereafter. Cut is cut - cut once replace for many $$


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

Sounds like the lining may have separated from the shoe and is binding going forward and is free going in reverse.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Gonna be singe digit wind chill here for a few days. That's why I would be tempted to just cut the cable, if I thought that would release it. It is supposed to snow Saturday and my old work van doesn't do well in the snow. Not worried about ever fixing the emergency brake.


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## Bob Sanders (Nov 10, 2013)

rusty baker said:


> Gonna be singe digit wind chill here for a few days. That's why I would be tempted to just cut the cable, if I thought that would release it.


Doesn't sound like a frozen E brake with only one wheel (partially) locked. If that's the problem though you should feel it in the tension of the cable.

My bet is with CJ.... a slipped lining.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

If you never use the parking brake, how could it stick? In order for it to stick, you would have to apply the parking brake right before it sticks. If you only rely on putting it in Park to keep the car in place, then the brakes shouldn't even be applied while it sat parked.

Suppose the parking brake is stuck and you cut the cable. Why would the cable be the only reason that it's sticking? I'm thinking, if anything, your brakes stuck because you never use the parking brake. Some rear brakes rely on the parking brake to help keep them aligned properly. 

I vote with everyone else, cutting the cable isn't going to fix the problem. You're going to have to pull the wheel off to see what happened.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

+1

Sounds like a separated lining or a busted adjuster.

Pull up and down on the E-cable several times. If you can see it move going into the back of the drum (assuming you have drum brakes here), then it isn't really an issue with the E-brake.

Don't cut the cable unless its junk.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

Drum brakes are designed to grab harder in fwd vs reverse. You probably have a wheel cylinder that is corroded and keeping pressure on your brake drums. In reverse, they just don't have the same grabbing power, so the wheel still turns.

I bet if you jack up the car, you will find that its very hard to turn the wheel in either direction.

I strongly suggest you pull the wheels/drums asap to get a better look at whats going on.

I hate working on drum brakes, but I would pull that apart asap and would certainly NOT be driving around with it at all. Even if you manage to get the wheel cyl un-frozen, a bad (corroded) wheel cyl will trash the seal in short order, and all your fluid will pump out.


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## flhtcu (Oct 12, 2014)

I think most likely the shoes are probably worn enough that the piston has come sllghtly out of the wheel cylinder,it's cocked at a slight angle,and can't return into the bore. Time for new brakes and wheel cylinders.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

flhtcu said:


> I think most likely the shoes are probably worn enough that the piston has come sllghtly out of the wheel cylinder,it's cocked at a slight angle,and can't return into the bore. Time for new brakes and wheel cylinders.


That should not happen within normal design parameters. ...But hey, anything can happen. just not something I have seen. If the piston came out at all, there would be fluid everywhere.

He could have swollen , falling apart shoes, Rusted up or broken brake linkage, A flex hose thats bad and preventing fluid backflow, a faulty resid pressure valve either inline, or in the MC.......

I just place my bet based on my observations dealing with drum brakes for almost 25 years. So my moneys on a corroded wheel cyl causing the shoes to drag!!

OP: Pull it apart and post pics!! I want to know if I'm right!


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm in. I raise the bet on the wheel cylinder.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

I will let you know when I get it torn down. I have to work on it outside and they are calling for snow tomorrow.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Also take a look at the PB cable branch to that side and see if it has ice on it. Lots of reports of similar PBs sticking on my Toyota Tacoma forum after folks wash their trucks when it is subfreezing and dron't drive them enough to warm up and melt any ice.

Here is one such thread:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...d-not-move-felt-like-stuck-parking-brake.html


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And yes, Iagree, I hate working on drum brakes! The good thing is that they last forever on the rear of p/u trucks, but the downside is you forget how to deal with them.


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## cjm94 (Sep 25, 2011)

caveeagle said:


> That should not happen within normal design parameters. ...But hey, anything can happen. just not something I have seen. If the piston came out at all, there would be fluid everywhere.
> 
> He could have swollen , falling apart shoes, Rusted up or broken brake linkage, A flex hose thats bad and preventing fluid backflow, a faulty resid pressure valve either inline, or in the MC.......
> 
> ...


I've seen more lining failure or springs breaking. But I only have 20 years in


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

raylo32 said:


> Also take a look at the PB cable branch to that side and see if it has ice on it. Lots of reports of similar PBs sticking on my Toyota Tacoma forum after folks wash their trucks when it is subfreezing and dron't drive them enough to warm up and melt any ice.
> 
> Here is one such thread:
> 
> http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...d-not-move-felt-like-stuck-parking-brake.html


I hadn't washed it, but that was my first thought, that maybe it had water splashed up on it.


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## flhtcu (Oct 12, 2014)

caveeagle said:


> That should not happen within normal design parameters. ...But hey, anything can happen. just not something I have seen. If the piston came out at all, there would be fluid everywhere.
> 
> He could have swollen , falling apart shoes, Rusted up or broken brake linkage, A flex hose thats bad and preventing fluid backflow, a faulty resid pressure valve either inline, or in the MC.......
> 
> ...


 I've seen it happen plenty of times. I suggested it because the brake locked up suddenly-and apparently with no warning,such as sticking slifghtly at stop signs,pulling to one side while braking.... But yes,if this is what happened it would be leaking fluid-But,maybe it just hasn't leaked enough to drip out of the drum yet. 
Anyway,the car is due for a brake job,including wheel cylinders or rebuilt wheel cylinders.[New ones are so cheap though,hardly anybody rebuilds them nowdays] I'd like to see a pic when he gets the drum off!


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

doesm't that car have disc brakes ? many of them did. 

does anyone else use the car ? perhaps even without your knowledge ?


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

It has drums on the back. No one else drives it. Only my wife and I drive here and she has no keys for it. Besides, she wasn't here when it happened.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

flhtcu said:


> Anyway,the car is due for a brake job





Fix'n it said:


> doesm't that car have disc brakes ?



Just wanted to point out that a Lumina APV is a minivan. :thumbsup:




raylo32 said:


> Also take a look at the PB cable branch to that side and see if it has ice on it. Lots of reports of similar PBs sticking on my Toyota Tacoma forum after folks wash their trucks when it is subfreezing and dron't drive them enough to warm up and melt any ice.
> 
> Here is one such thread:
> 
> http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...d-not-move-felt-like-stuck-parking-brake.html


How would that happen to Rusty is he doesn't use the parking brake?



rusty baker said:


> I have seen this on cars where people had the emergency brake on and it froze, but I never use one.


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## rusty baker (Feb 13, 2009)

We were all wrong. It had an axle seal leaking. The brake shoes and drum were coated and apparently the grease froze and wouldn't let the wheel turn. I cleaned all the grease out and it turned freely so I changed the seal. Hopefully that is all that was wrong. This spring I will probably change the wheel cylinders and brake shoes. Too cold now.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

rusty baker said:


> We were all wrong. It had an axle seal leaking. The brake shoes and drum were coated and apparently the grease froze and wouldn't let the wheel turn. I cleaned all the grease out and it turned freely so I changed the seal. Hopefully that is all that was wrong. This spring I will probably change the wheel cylinders and brake shoes. Too cold now.


Wow. So many different things that it could have been. Glad you got it fixed and safe again.


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## ukrkoz (Dec 31, 2010)

*GREASE* froze??????


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

ukrkoz said:


> *GREASE* froze??????


That is what I was thinking when I read that. 

I am think it swelled the pads when it got contaminated but I will defer to Rusty.


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## r0ckstarr (Jan 8, 2013)

Maybe his axle was full of water. :laughing:


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And it's not even grease. When a rear axle seal blows gear oil is what leaks out. No way that froze. Had to be some water involved somehow or other.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Lumina_APV

Unless I am missing something here, the Lumina APV is a front wheel drive vehicle, and I didn't think they made a 4wd version. 

Assuming we are still talking about the rear drum brakes, I don't see how you could have leaking gear oil or grease all over the brake surfaces.

Glad you got it working. Just confused about your description of the root cause.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

caveeagle said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Lumina_APV
> 
> Unless I am missing something here, the Lumina APV is a front wheel drive vehicle, and I didn't think they made a 4wd version.
> 
> ...


It is wheel bearing grease and not gear oil.

They pack them pretty full back there.


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## caveeagle (Jul 22, 2013)

Windows on Wash said:


> It is wheel bearing grease and not gear oil.
> 
> They pack them pretty full back there.


Even still... Its hard to visualize how enough wheel bearing grease could sling out of there to cause increased friction???

Anyway, I am not there looking at it.. It seems the OP got it under control..


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

caveeagle said:


> Even still... Its hard to visualize how enough wheel bearing grease could sling out of there to cause increased friction???
> 
> Anyway, I am not there looking at it.. It seems the OP got it under control..


I agree as well.

I was thinking that it just swelled the lining with the grease and that is what caused it to bind up.


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