# can you paint flat paint over semi gloss



## Keg

Hello everyone I have a question. The original ceiling was flat and I put semi gloss now. like people said roller marks and imperfections appear. can i buy flat again and go over semi gloss or do i have to do something more like prime it.. thank you all


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## ddawg16

You can do what ever you want. Flat over Gloss....gloss over flat.

Have you considered putting a second coat on it first? I personally have not had a whole lot of luck getting by with just one coat of paint when I'm changing colors.

What kind of imperfections? In most cases that is caused by dirt, and not the paint it self. When in doubt, prime it....then paint it.


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## Keg

Hi dawg thanks I see the roller marks on the ceiling and the beams from the attic show more now then before.i guess because there is four windows all is seen on the ceiling. I did two coats. when it was a flat China white it was nice. used semi gloss over it and when you open curtains lighting shows everything. Should I buy a flat China white with primer. Some people posted sanding it down before going over. it seems allot for a bedroom ceiling. Or should I just buy flat china white.i appreciate all the help. Thanks


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## Ron6519

You might want to lightly sand the ceiling. The area needs a bit of tooth for the next coat to grab onto. You also want to mute some of the thicker rolling issues so they don't telegraph through the next coat.


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## Keg

So regardless it needs sanding? Or a paint with primer would make it work. or straight primer then flat.. thanks sorry just been frustrated with this project


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## ben's plumbing

not sure where you are from but sherwin williams pro mar 200 is some awesome paint ..primer and top coat.....was told anytime changing surface finish always prime.......


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## Keg

Awesome thank you all so much


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## user1007

Pro Mar is SW's contractor grade paint. Great paint. Used to use it all the time but it is not their top of the line. Still much better than any box store brand.

Remember that latex/acrylic semi-gloss paints take 30 days to cure. If you try to sand or scruff the surface before then you could have a mess on your hands and sheet upon sheet of gummed up sandpaper.

I would tend to go with the suggestion to stay with semi-gloss---especially if you after that sheen in the first place---and apply another coat with a thicker roller cover.


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## pshadwick

Another thing to keep in mind when using any kind of gloss on the ceiling is that the direction of rolling makes a difference.
You should always roll towards the windows, the roller marks are then much less noticable.
...Paul


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## Keg

Do you think if I change the nap to thicker would it help cover the roller streaks. I'm not applying pressure to the roll when applying. The guy told me to use a thinner nap. wondering if it would be better to go thick. Also been reading that primer would be fine then flat paint over. Would that stick ok? Or sanding is the only way? Thanks


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## Windows

Give it a light sanding - use a thicker napped roller, but spend the time back-rolling and really evening out the paint. Do two coats of flat. You are seeing roller marks not because it is semi-gloss, but because either you are having coverage issues (not enough paint on the ceiling) or you are not rolling it out properly, or both.


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## user1007

What nap cover are you using. I seldom used anything thinner than 3/8 and usually started with 1/2 for interior work and latex paints. Other painters disagree but I actually preferred 3/4 when applying semi-gloss---especially to walls and ceilings. 

You could put a high bond primer on to be sure of adhesion if you want to shift to flat. Once it is cured, a light sanding will go really fast.


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## seamonster

I suggest priming over glossy walls for adhesion but if its a ceiling you really dont have to. I dont see why you'd want to sand at all. We use Benjamin moor and whenever there are roller marks, its just telling us we need another coat.


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## Keg

I know Behr has primer inside the paint. is that good enough to cover semi gloss?


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## Windows

Keg said:


> I know Behr has primer inside the paint. is that good enough to cover semi gloss?


Get a typical flat ceiling paint from an actual paint store and you are good to go. Paint and primer in one can is nothing more than a sales gimmick.


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## user1007

Windows said:


> Get a typical flat ceiling paint from an actual paint store and you are good to go. Paint and primer in one can is nothing more than a sales gimmick.


Key phrase highlighted in red. :thumbup: Read any of the* Behr*ly paint posts at all on this site before buying that stuff. And indeed there is no such thing as primer and paint in one.


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## chrisn

Keg said:


> I know Behr:thumbdown: has primer inside the paint. is that good enough to cover semi gloss?


 
Primer INSIDE the paint, now that is a good one:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## user1007

Rumor has it HD plans to prove primer and paint are in the same can by putting a lid on both the bottom and the top. If you turn the can upside down and stir the chemicals, an alkyd oil based primer will materialize. If you open the top and stir, the chemistry changes so you have flat, satin or semi-gloss 100 percent acrylic latex---easily applied without running and sagging. You can switch back and forth just by opening the correct lid.

First shipments are to be delivered to non-believers and skeptical pro painters by :santa: on Christmas Eve (Yes Virginia...). As an added incentive, HD will provide the amazing self-applicator to the first 50,000 painters who endorse the product. Just set the can in the middle of the room on the spinning platform and it will apply itself to walls and ceilings without any brushwork, roller lap marks or spray gaps.


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## Faron79

Something I've always told our customers' that inquire about this matter....

"How does the primer in the can know how to get to the wall FIRST?!?!?"

I work at a very reputable upscale Paint/Hdwr./Decorating, etc. store.

YES....it is just "Marketing Buzzwords".
* The paint companies are just touting the newest formulations as forming a tight-enough and dense-enough film...THAT ACTS LIKE A PRIMER, because surface-porosity is SOMEWHAT overcome by the newer/denser films.
* Example: ACE just came out with their new "Paint & Primer-in-one" after lots of development time (I work at such a store).
* The new paint is Ceramic-Microsphere based, like a couple other companies have done. It DOES have a tighter film-structure under a microscope, and an improved 100% Acrylic resin, BUT....

>>> It ISN'T an actual "Primer".
>>> NONE of the P&P paints have an actual separate primer in them.
>>> If you DID combine the two separate resin-types, you'd be sacrificing the capability of BOTH.

At least ACE states on the label that some surfaces SHOULD be separately primed b4 using even this new paint!!!

Faron


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## m1951mm

Here is my two cents here. Semi gloss on a ceiling is asking for problems. Drywall finishers rarely spend as much time finishing the ceiling as the walls. Semi gloss will always show the imperfections on the surface more than a flat paint will. IMHO I would just do a couple of coats of flat over what is now on the ceiling using a 1/2" nap roller, rolling!! not pressing, light pressure and keep filling the roller, do not let it go dry. I know that sanding a glossy surface is the BEST way for good adheasion, but on a ceiling that does not get wear the sanding maybe be more work than needed. 

I did not see anything about any stomp, sand or any other texture that may have been added to the ceiling. Is the ceiling flat finished???? Something I have done with ceilings is to do a sponge wash (taking flat paint watered down some and with a "turtle sponge" with the hard edges torn off) and literally washing in a figure 8 motion (not covering all the surface) the watered down flat paint. The flat paint over the semi will give different sheens that will play different with the light coming into the room hiding somewhat the beams and the previous roller marks. Adding the different sheens to the ceiling will change how the light plays off the ceiling thus hiding the imperfections. 

I will add some pics of ceilings I have done if I can find them on the puter:thumbsup:.


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## m1951mm

Here are a couple of pics showing the wash over an eggshell finish. These pics were taken during the process of doing the ceiling. You can see how the light plays different on the sheen levels of the paint. The first pic is the first layer of the flat wash. I did a couple more passes slightly changing the formula (adding some of the wall paint to the white flat first wash). The second pic is the third pass. The third pic is the final finish. Once the walls were done the ceiling looks very soft, cloudy like, and there were plenty of bad mud joints that you just do not see anymore. I added a fourth pic showing the turtle sponge I used with a plastic dinner plate used for blotting the paints. The little brush there is to stomp into the corners between the ceiling and the walls so you can get an overall finish since the sponge is to big to get into the corners. Eggshell being the base coat is shiny, but not as shiny as semi. This could be done over semi and come out great.

Tried to edit pics and I lost one. Next post shows the finished ceiling I HOPE


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## m1951mm

Final outcome


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## Gymschu

P.S. Load that roller up with paint! I mean, it should be almost dripping wet when you take it from the tray to the ceiling. So many DIYers barely get enough paint on their roller to cover one sq. ft. And, you have to move pretty quickly when doing ceilings. All the warm air tends to gather up there and this hastens the drying time of your ceiling paint. You said you're not pressing too hard so hopefully that is the case.


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## Gymschu

m1951mm said:


> Final outcome


So cool, wish I had that kind of talent m1951!


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## Keg

you guys are so helpful.. thanks\ u all seriously.. about to start it up in half hr.. will keep u all posted... will try and put pics as well


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## Keg

ok guys would like to first say thank you. used all your ideas and came out with a master plan. I bought the same ceiling paint that was on there before I put the semi gloss. Benjamin Moore Super Hide latex flat china white. I did make the roller wet. it was a blue roller with a 1/2" nap. made it wet and rolled it on using the "W" method. It dried even and looks probably better then the guy I bought the house from. sunlight and ceiling light showed nothing. I was amazed. Did not use primer applied the flat latex over the semi gloss latex. I didnt even sand. The paint store guy said that because I painted the semi gloss newly that it did not need anything extra and that it would stick just fine. It did. I kept the space I painted at about 3'x3' and kept it wet. Even my wife was amazed. I decided to do this after I called for a price and for a bedroom ceiling sized at apprx 10'x12' and i dont know if its a good price but he said $225 without the paint. He said no primer no sanding just 2 coates. I said what the hell let me try it out. Im very pleased. I would like to say thanks to all the people who gave insight and knowledge. Cheers


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## Keg

I also did not apply pressure on the roller when applying and used the stick and regular way


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## chrisn

Keg said:


> ok guys would like to first say thank you. used all your ideas and came out with a master plan. I bought the same ceiling paint that was on there before I put the semi gloss. Benjamin Moore Super Hide latex flat china white. I did make the roller wet. it was a blue roller with a 1/2" nap. made it wet and rolled it on using the "W" method. It dried even and looks probably better then the guy I bought the house from. sunlight and ceiling light showed nothing. I was amazed. Did not use primer applied the flat latex over the semi gloss latex. I didnt even sand. The paint store guy said that because I painted the semi gloss newly that it did not need anything extra and that it would stick just fine. It did. I kept the space I painted at about 3'x3' and kept it wet. Even my wife was amazed. I decided to do this after I called for a price and for a bedroom ceiling sized at apprx 10'x12' and i dont know if its a good price but he said $225 without the paint. He said no primer no sanding just 2 coates. I said what the hell let me try it out. Im very pleased. I would like to say thanks to all the people who gave insight and knowledge. Cheers


 
Way to go. Just for future reference( especially when doing walls that you are actually going to look at) a blue cover is a "cheap" cover. Using a "good" cover will make a difference in the long run.


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