# pocket entry door



## kelleyw (Aug 13, 2011)

i have a small living room and the front door opens into it blocking the couch i was thinking of fabricating a pocket entry door. or is there one on the market already? cant seem to find one.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

Pocket door systems are offered either as kits or as pre-assembled units. The pre-assembled types, sold through lumberyards and home improvement centers, include a jamb, hanger track, and pre-made cage that, when finished, becomes the pocket.


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

kelleyw said:


> i have a small living room and the front door opens into it blocking the couch i was thinking of fabricating a pocket entry door. or is there one on the market already? cant seem to find one.


I've never seen an exterior pocket door.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

kelleyw said:


> i have a small living room and the front door opens into it blocking the couch i was thinking of fabricating a pocket entry door. or is there one on the market already? cant seem to find one.


I don't know if codes would allow pocket doors for egress. I could foresee problems in emergency situations.:icon_confused:


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Sliding patio door


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## loneframer (Mar 27, 2009)

A true pocket door is going to allow very little in the way of insulation options, which is one reason you don't see them in homes.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

iamrfixit said:


> Sliding patio door


Difference being sliding patio doors are totally exposed, pocket doors are totally enclosed. I dunno, just askin?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Consider buying a front door that swings out.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

jschaben said:


> Difference being sliding patio doors are totally exposed, pocket doors are totally enclosed. I dunno, just askin?


Yes, the door would be exposed, but it's the closest thing you are going to find to a pocket door for an exterior wall.


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## bubbler (Oct 18, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> Consider buying a front door that swings out.


Also may be against code in some places because the door can be blocked and prevented from opening (mostly an issue with snow).


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## bubbler (Oct 18, 2010)

kelleyw said:


> i have a small living room and the front door opens into it blocking the couch i was thinking of fabricating a pocket entry door. or is there one on the market already? cant seem to find one.


Would switch the door from LH to RH help at all? I'm guessing you've explored changing the furniture or it's arrangement too right? that would be much easier


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

*“R311.2 Egress door.* At least one egress door shall be provided for each _dwelling_ unit. The egress door shall be *side-hinged,* and shall provide a minimum clear width of 32 inches (813 mm) when measured between the face of the door and the stop, with the door open 90 degrees (1.57 rad). The minimum clear height of the door opening shall not be less than 78 inches (1981 mm) in height measured from the top of the threshold to the bottom of the stop. Other doors shall not be required to comply with these minimum dimensions. Egress doors shall be readily openable from inside the _dwelling_ without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.” http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec011_par001.htm

If you substitute another door in a different location, it needs to meet egress path code: “*R311.1 Means of egress.* All _dwellings_ shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a *continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress *travel from all portions of the _dwelling_ to the exterior of the _dwelling_ at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.”—check out *floors and landings* at egress doors, also; http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec011.htm


Gary


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

bubbler said:


> Also may be against code in some places because the door can be blocked and prevented from opening (mostly an issue with snow).


No code issues anywhere in the U.S. or Canada--All commercial buildings require outswing doors.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

> Pocket door systems are offered either as kits or as pre-assembled units. The pre-assembled types, sold through lumberyards and home improvement centers, include a jamb, hanger track, and pre-made cage that, when finished, becomes the pocket.


Yes but are they intended for use as exterior doors?
I don't think so!

Kelleyw, are there any electrical devices (inside or out) that would interfere with this notion? [ie. Light switches, porch lights, door bells, etc.]


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> Yes but are they intended for use as exterior doors?
> I don't think so!
> 
> Kelleyw, are there any electrical devices (inside or out) that would interfere with this notion? [ie. Light switches, porch lights, door bells, etc.]


Your right Bud, I was reading and posting at the same time and caught it after I posted. And no they don’t make them for exterior doors.


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## Bud Cline (Mar 12, 2006)

Can't think I have ever seen such a thing and as noted above there are obvious reasons for that I suppose.

I wonder why it is that all residential doors swing into the structure while all commercial doors swing outward. The outward swing is obvious but why is the residential swing the opposite?


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## Leah Frances (Jan 13, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> Can't think I have ever seen such a thing and as noted above there are obvious reasons for that I suppose.
> 
> I wonder why it is that all residential doors swing into the structure while all commercial doors swing outward. The outward swing is obvious but why is the residential swing the opposite?


'cause it's really hard to open and enter an outward swinging door when it's on a stoop and you've got an armful of groceries. 

Also, it's easier for the awesome folks who fight fires for us to enter.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> Can't think I have ever seen such a thing and as noted above there are obvious reasons for that I suppose.
> 
> I wonder why it is that all residential doors swing into the structure while all commercial doors swing outward. The outward swing is obvious but why is the residential swing the opposite?


The reason is it is also very easy to disassemble removing the hinge pins completely detaches the door from the frame and let a criminal just walk right in. While this might help you out a good deal as a homeowner you can remove the door in order to squeeze in an over sized couch, for example it's not something you want to make accessible to intruders. For this reason, the hinge mechanism needs to be positioned inside the house. With a standard hinge design, this means the door will open inward. 


Public buildings have the same security concerns, of course, but they also have to consider other safety factors. Unlike a private home, a public building is likely to have large numbers of people in it. In case of fire or other emergency, these people need to be evacuated as quickly and easily as possible. 

Example: when a mob of people rushes an exit, it's very hard for somebody to open the door inward everyone pushes up against the door, and there is no room for it to open. For this reason, an effective emergency exit needs to open outward, moving with the force of the mob. This is also why a lot of emergency exits are built with wide "panic bars" instead of ordinary door knobs. The basic idea is to build the exit so even the most out of-control mob will be able to escape. 

To maintain perimeter security, public exits are typically built with concealed or protected hinges, which are much harder to detach than simple pin-hinges. These doors are more expensive to install and repair, making them impractical for residential use. And as long as you don't have an unruly mob living with you, these outward opening doors don't offer any real advantage in your home.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

They make security hinges for outswing doors.

I’ve installed residential outswing doors for a variety of reasons on permitted and inspected new construction. I’ve never heard of a code that says there not allowed.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

I don’t think there is a code for it either.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

Another issue with outswinging exterior doors is security, the hinge pins are on the outside. Soss or other specialty hinges can fix that,,, for a price.:whistling2:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

jschaben said:


> Another issue with outswinging exterior doors is security, the hinge pins are on the outside. Soss or other specialty hinges can fix that,,, for a price.:whistling2:


 Everything is available for a price.
I rememember Alysse was ... never mind, wrong forum.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

epson said:


> Pocket door systems are offered either as kits or as pre-assembled units. The pre-assembled types, sold through lumberyards and home improvement centers, include a jamb, hanger track, and pre-made cage that, when finished, becomes the pocket.


These are interior units; I have never heard of an exterior pocket door. Besides not being able to latch it very securely against intrusion, it would be impossible to weatherproof it and still be able to slide it.

Don't know the exact set up from your description, but could an exterior swing door work there.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 25, 2006)

kwikfishron said:


> They make security hinges for outswing doors.
> 
> I’ve installed residential outswing doors for a variety of reasons on permitted and inspected new construction. I’ve never heard of a code that says there not allowed.


Seems like common sense would tell people better, but obviously it doesn't, or it would not have to be against code to install in a situation where the door swings out over a set of steps; there has to be a landing.


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## GottaFixIt (Dec 3, 2010)

Slung Pocket Doors:









Weather Seal:












Dynamic Pocket Doors:









There are many more - http://www.google.com/search?q=exterior+pocket+door











Also condsider the Ergon Retrotranslating (2 way) door (ASSUMING NO STORM DOOR):

















This would make the most sense from an egress standpoint.


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

thanks for that ergon link. That's clever and I can see where that could solve some ADA issues with door swing area available vs the required opening.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Cool door, not for ADA or egress though, click on "Maneuvering Clearances" here: http://www.edsdoors.com/ada_guide.htm

Gary


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## jschaben (Mar 31, 2010)

GBR in WA said:


> Cool door, not for ADA or egress though, click on "Maneuvering Clearances" here: http://www.edsdoors.com/ada_guide.htm
> 
> Gary


Maybe I'm missing something but looks to me like manuevering clearances are met. Looks like it is a push from either side.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Also from that site: 
“*Maximum opening force for sliding, folding and swinging interior doors is 5 Lbs.* 
Notes:
1) The ADA has no determined maximum opening force as of now, but 8 Lbs. is strongly suggested and required by some state and local accessibility codes.” 
Check locally if changing a door style from the norm to make sure it is accessible for wheelchair persons, seems rather difficult to open unless right in front of it- harder to do while sitting an arms-length away stopped from getting close by the protruding door on either side hitting the wheelchair ….does it require a center push or an edge of door side push? You could check the door manufacturer’s web page for ADA compliance, let us know…..

Gary


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