# Help! Drain fly infestation in my apartment



## benjo

Hello, and thanks for reading my post.

We live on the 30th floor of a New York City apartment. I have a drain fly infestation, and according to my Superintendant I am the only tenant that has complained.

The flies seem to be based in my master bathroom, but we can not locate the source. Also even more than my bathroom the flies congregate around the windows all over my apartment, in all three bedrooms and the living room by the windows. Every day there are tons of them by the windows, dead and alive. 

I have taped over the drains and found nothing. I have poured bleach down the drains many times. The exterminator has poured foam down the drains. I have left cups of oil as someone suggested around the apartment to try to locate the source to no avail. I have had the a/c units checked. The plumber is coming tomorrow to snake the drains. I do not know what to do! I have no idea where they are coming from. This is driving me crazy, we must kill about 50 a day. They are everywhere!

Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Have you heard of photo imaging to find moisture behind the walls? How does a moisture meter work? Will it detect moisture behind the tile in my bathroom? I am not in the business, I am a housewife but I am handy and I am willing to spend money to get rid of these f***kers. I am going bananas here and I am obsessed with getting rid of them. 

Thank you.

Lori


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## PAbugman

Make sure that you get or have a positive identification of these flies, as knowing what specie they are will lead us in the right direction. Drain flies implies "psychoda". Google this and see if they are one and the same. Have a magnifier handy. Close as many doors in your apt as possible, so as to isolate the flies. This could help determine where they are coming from. 
If necessary, take specimens to county agents, agricultural agents, entomologists, etc. Positive ID is paramount in solving small fly problems. If they are psychoda, then there is a chronic moisture source, likely related to sewage, that will become more evident as time goes on. Keep us posted with results, questions, etc.


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## AllanJ

1. Look inside the toilet tank.

2. Get some transparent plastic sheeting. Cut it into convenient shapes and sizes, for example 2 feet by 10 feet and tape it over sections of the room for example along one wall where it meets the floor or along one wall where it meets the ceiling. You will need a strip long enough that the space behind it is closed off at the ends also. Wait a week. See if the flies originate inside the closed off area as evidenced by many being trapped back there. (The plastic sheet is to narrow down on the origin, not in order to trap the flies.) Do two or three areas at a time if space permits adn you have enough plastic sheeting. This is a trial and error process as you move the sheets of plastic around. Don't forget the front of the tub as it meets the floor.

If you are ambitious and have a large enough piece such as a painter's dropcloth. you could go from floor to ceiling, sealing around both side walls, splitting the entire bathroom in half. You can peel back one side to go in and out if you blocked off ths shower and not spoil the test, provided you retape it within a few seconds each time. After you narrow it down, use smaller pieces of plastic within the affected area.


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## benjo

*Drain fly infestation*

Thank you both very much for your replies. Yes I looked up "psychoda" and this is definitely the type of fly. It was also identified as this by two different exterminators that I have brought in.

Last night I closed the bathroom door, put a towel under the bottom of the door and taped around the door seams. I left the shower light on. I also taped over several small openings in the bathroom, including the sink openings in the front of sink (forget what they are called) and the jacuzzi tub jets and a few holes in the grout. 

I walked in this morning and found about 20 flies dead and alive. I was successful in catching about 5 flies in the clear duct tape that I taped around the opening where the toilet pipe enters the wall. The inside of the toilet and the inside of the tank are clear. So in addition the the few flies I caught that were behind the wall trying to make their way out of that little pipe area behind the toilet, there were many others that must have found their way out elsewhere.

The other taped areas were clear. 

So now I am assuming that the flies are behind the wall. Does it sound like I have a leak from the pipe behind the toilet? I have a plumber coming back tomorrow morning. The first plumber was clueless and had no idea what to do and the exterminators simply want to spray and leave, they aren't interested in helping me determine the source.

I think the plastic wrap sounds like an excellent idea and I am going to head out now and buy the plastic and more tape. Thank you very much for this brilliant idea. I will keep you posted and thank you so much for the support, it is very helpful to know there are knowledgeable people out there who want to help.

Lori


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## PAbugman

I've never serviced large apt buildings such as yours, so I'm not familiar with the utilities and such. The largest we have in our town is 3 stories + basement. When your super says that you're the only one complaining, that may well be true. It very well may be true that tenants that should be complaining are not. This happens in apt bldgs when tenants feel that they are at fault, if they're not paying rent, if they don't want to be seen/heard, etc. 

Psychoda mean chronic leaks, often associated with sewage. I've also found them in unused dishwashers, because of stagnant water. 

Are there any floor drains in your apt?
Are there any trash chutes near you?
How close are you to the roof (wet insulation)?

Don't bother hiring pest control guys that want to spray and leave. That won't work. The source must be found; in rare occasions there may be more than one source. You will probably need more co-operation from management and neighbors-this could be a stumbling block. Is there a tenant/condo association?


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## benjo

*Drain fly update*

Today the plumber came back with a probe. The only opening large enough to fit the probe was one of the shower knobs, the knob that controls temperature. He removed the plate and sure enough a bunch of flies flew out as he began his probe. The flies are certainly behind the walls. 

He could not see enough with his probe so he is coming back on Tuesday. We will drill holes in the tile near the toilet, shower and jacuzzi tub that are large enough to see what is going on. I gave him permission to knock that bathroom open. I am considering that bathroom done at this point. I will deal with renovating it after this is over. I just don't see anyway around this problem.

I spoke with my insurance company about coverage and they said I am not covered for bug extermination, but will be covered if a leak is found.

The issue with living in an apartment building is you are so reliant on your neighbors. I have already had several leaks from my upstairs neighbors. The worst would be to do all this only to renovate and then have this happen all over again, if it their fault. They have made a lot of changes to their plumbing.

At this point I feel at least some sense of control that I have identified that they are coming from behind the bathroom walls. At least I know we should have an answer by Tuesday of the source of our wet/organic matter that is feeding the drain flies. 

I will continue plugging as many holes until then but it is amazing that no matter how much I tape and plug they still find a way out and they are still just as numerous throughout the apartment. This bathroom abuts my master closet and the living room on the other side, so they are probably finding their way out of other holes around the apartment.

Thank you for your support and I will let you know what happens on Tuesday.


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## AllanJ

Is this a wall totally within your apartment or is it a boundary wall with the hall or another unit?

Would you use an odor emitting (as opposed to sticky or one time spray) insecticide that you can place or inject into the wall and then seal it up?


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## PAbugman

You're doing good work benjo, but I'm sorry that you are going thru this. I still suspect a cracked or partially open vertical sewage pipe. Hopefully it won't be your responsibility to fix, as I'm sure it is a pipe commonly used by the bldg. 

I suspect that if your pipes that are pressurized were leaking, your downstairs neighbors would be aware of it. A sewage pipe is not under pressure and doesn't always leak if cracked or open a bit.


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## benjo

*Drain fly update*

So.... the plumber arrived today with drills in hand. We punched large holes in the bathroom tile, maybe 12 inches by 12 inches, by the toilet, shower stall and the tub. There was no sign of moisture or leakage at all, and no gassy fumes or moldy fumes. The plumber put the probe down the shower drain and did see a few down there, so he plugged up the shower, filled up the shower basin and then unplugged so the water flooded down the drain. He did this three times. He felt confident this might help, even though I told him that the flies were coming from behind the wall, not the shower drain.

They taped up the wall holes with plastic but now the flies are more numerous then ever, pouring out of tiny holes I imagine in the plastic that we wrapped the holes we dug up with. I have fly tape hanging everywhere in there. 

Tomorrow a contractor is coming over to talk about demolishing the bathroom altogether. The plumber feels he needs to see what is going on under the shower base and also he does not see where the shower pipe trap is. We have not used this bathroom now in about 2 weeks so I doubt there will be any moisture below the shower, even if there was a leak in the base. 

I guess the only way to totally visualize what is going on is to completely take down the walls and inspect the pipes and vents.And that is what we are going to have to do. Do you have any other suggestions? 

I can't take this, I walk into that bathroom and there are 50-60 flies at any given moment. It is so gross. They are all over the windowsills now as well all over my apartment. I am in fear of them laying eggs in other places in the apartment. 

I am becoming very despondent about this. I realize in the scheme of life these are just stupid drain flies, but it is sincerely depressing to live with these bugs in my pretty home and not be able to eliminate them. I really need to get a grip I know.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.


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## benjo

*one more thing*

We went downstairs to the apartment below mine. It had no evidence of leaks from my apartment down to theirs. They did have a few drain flies, maybe 4 or 5, not many. The plumber and exterminator inspected the apartment and don't feel they are the cause, even though the apartment has been unused since November. The exterminator ran the water throughout.

Upstairs neighbors haven't complained of the flies at all.


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## PAbugman

I'm more convinced then ever that they will eventually find a cracked sewage pipe and hopefully much of the cost of what you are going thru will be born by management. Keep us posted, I need to know the outcome.


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## benjo

Thanks PABugman! Really good to know that there is support out there. My contractor arrived today with his probe. He looked in the holes that the plumber made yesterday. He came to the same conclusion as me, that there is activity most likely behind the shower pipes or under the shower. He noticed that my shower base is plastic and not connected properly, and commented that a plastic shower base is not supposed to be in a large apartment building. He said there was definitely a bad seal for this base and water could have leaked under the base. He noted that my floor tiles near the shower door are darker in color than the rest of the tile, indicating they could be wet underneath. I mentioned that they could be darker because normally there is a towel there. He agreed but felt it was still worth noting.

He agreed with you that it could be a tiny hole in the sewage line, or possibly a crack in a vent. The bugs were pouring out of every hole that he re-opened today, dead and alive (removed the plastic and tape) so he was able to see that the flies are definitely behind the wall. But when he looked down the shower drain a few flew out of there as well. He also did not see a shower trap, even after probing 3 feet down. But he felt I must have a trap farther down because otherwise we might have an odor. There is no odor. He suggested that perhaps the vent line is in front of the trap which could be causing the problem. 

He is coming back on Tuesday to begin to demo the shower. We are going to start with the shower before removing the rest of the bathroom, to try to eliminate extra costs. I felt that I was in good hands today, so that is reassuring.

I will let you know how it goes on Tuesday after the shower walls are removed. 

Thank you again for the support.

Lori


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## amyevans

I feel for you, it sounds awful. 

I seem to have afew weird bug problems in my bathroom, including some flys which now I'm thinking could be drain flys. However the problem is nothing on the scale of yours.

One of the bugs in my bathroom I have no idea what it is, I've searched all over the place and simply can't figure it out.

Really hope you sort it, I don't think I could cope at all if my problem escalated to that level. 

Best, best, best of luck.


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## PAbugman

Hello Benjo: Any updates (hopefully progress) for us? Thanks.


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## benjo

*My drain fly update*

Unfortunately I only have bad news. I have ripped my master bathroom apart from top to bottom and we have found nothing. The pipes are fine. The drain flies slowed down for a while and I was praying that perhaps the wet spot had dried up as we stopped using that bathroom about a month ago. But then a few days ago a new batch must have hatched because I woke up to maybe 100 flies throughout the apartment once again. Again settling mostly by the windowsills. They are indeed flying through the master bath but I think it is just a checkpoint on their way out from wherever they are originating. Because that room is sealed off now with the door and then plastic taped all around, so there is no way that 100 flies got through that plastic. They are making their way out from all directions. I am guessing that perhaps we found so many in there because that bathroom a) had moisture and b) had many openings to escape from behind the wall ie from the holes where the plumbing fixtures are.

I am extremely stressed about this and extremely upset. I have a beautiful and clean apartment, I have put so much time and effort into creating my home and now this. UGH!

I checked in with my neighbor down the hall yesterday to see if she had any flies. She is the only other apartment on my floor. She said she had a few but only in her living room (which doesn't even abut my apartment). Her housekeeper said she has seen them, but it doesn't seem to be a nuisance to them at this point. She said she hadn't really thought about them since there weren't that many.

I am amazed by how many end up by the windows and especially fall below the cushions that are on each windowseat. They are behind all of the pillows on these windowseats as well. I will have to take pictures to explain. I can't even decide a direction because they are in my room and kids room which are all the way east and the livingroom which is all the way on the opposite side of the apartment. 

Now that the master bathroom is open I think I will try to see if I can somehow snake a camera through the drop ceiling to see if I can see anything. do you think something like this exists? A way to snake a probe through a drop ceiling for many feet?

The only thing I can think of is that above my livingroom is a terrace belonging to my upstairs neighbors. Perhaps there is a drain up there that has accumulated organic matter, and perhaps there is a leak making it's way into my apartment. But I would assume if there was a leak that I would see it on my ceiling and I see nothing. 

Do you think a bug bomb would kill them? Would a bomb kill the larvae? We go away for the summer and my husband suggested we just bomb the interior of the drop ceiling for a week straight to catch them as they emerge from the larvae. I am not even sure if this will work or if it is worth the toxic fumes that it will give off, not to mention coating my furniture and walls. 

Do you think heating up the apartment could help? I've heard this is done for bedbugs but don't know if this would kill larvae either. Bottom line is I just don't have any idea what to do or where to turn. 

If I don't have any apparent leaks would a moisture meter do any good? Would thermal imaging? 

I don't know what to do and I am really desperate. I am focusing so hard on this that I actually dream about the darn things, I have dreamed about researching them on the internet! I am obsessed!

Another thought I had is to tape off all of the light fixtures throughout the paartment to see if they are making their way out from the little holes by the overhead lights. Perhaps that will at least give me an idea of where in the apartment they may be originating, which direction. 

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you very much for letting me vent and babble.


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## PAbugman

benjo: I was so sure that the problem would be found and solved by opening up your bathroom like you did. You have gone so far above and beyond anyone I've ever know that had this problem and sadly the problem still exists.

Plumbers and home inspectors/engineers may have camera eqpt. like you are suggesting.

If there was a leak above you, I too think that you would be aware of it.

Aerosol bombs will accomplish nothing. The source must be found. It would kill the larvae if it got into the source, but in days it would start over. 

Heating the apartment won't help; MAYBE heating the source would work; but probably temporarily at best. If you knew where the source was, you would solve the problem by removal. Heating the apartment doesn't kill bed bugs-heating the bed bug kills the bugs. 

Taping holes on light fixtures is a good idea, especially at this point. Any efforts that will either eliminate or include possibilities is worthwhile. Data collection, as my chemist wife would say. 

Some thoughts:

Is it possible that there are floor drains in your apartment that have been covered over by remodeling? Floor drains that have long dried out would be a source.

Were sinks, dishwashers, laundry machines, etc ever moved to a new location, thus possibly leaving an open drain that may have been covered by ensuing remodeling? Again, the drain would dry out and be a source. I've seen this happen. 

I still can't stop thinking that a sewage pipe is open somewhere-either cracked or something left uncovered. Sewage pipes are not under pressure so they don't always leak solids, but gasses/flies escape. 

The moisture meter idea is intriguing. Home inspection/engineer business would be helpful. 

Don't give up-you will solve this and we will all learn from it. Whatever is causing this is not your fault. Keep us informed; we appreciate it.


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## benjo

*Drain fly update*

Thank you so much Bugman. It is really helpful to hear your advice. Good to know there is someone out there listening. I can't stress my husband about this, he has enough stress with his work.

I have two appointments with two different exterminators tomorrow. One sounds like a typical waste of time. The other sounded interesting, he is the only exterminator so far that sounds like he is interested in doing the research and finding the source. He sounded intelligent and said all of the right things. he is bringing along a union plumber that he works with that he said is excellent and can offer assistance. (Afraid what this is going to cost me!). At this point I am willing to punch holes in my ceiling to take a look at the pipes running through the top of my ceiling. I am on a rare floor that has drop ceilings (made from sheet rock), most of the apartments in my building have concrete ceilings. This of course makes it much more complicated as the pipe could be anywhere. The flies are in this air space.

Also I have 4 toilets (or had 4 toilets, now I have 3 since we removed the one in the master bath). So there are many sewage pipes running through here. 

This exterminator mentioned going upstairs to inspect the setback terrace that sits above my living room and looking at their ports (I don't even know what that means). I am hoping these neighbors allow me access. They are typically extremely difficult and unhelpful and private. I have been in touch with my building manager and he said he will try his best to help me.

This is going to be a long process but I guess finding the source will be cheaper than moving, so I am in it for the long haul. I will do whatever it takes to get rid of these flies. My greatest fear is that there are multiple sources now. 

I will keep you posted. My next step in the master bathroom is to have the contractors use a special foam to completely fill any and all gaps surrounding the pipes. 

I wish I could use the smoke test but I don't think that will get approved in a building 32 floors high. The smoke might freak out a few folks - ha!

As for hidden drains, I know for sure that I don't. This building is only 10 years old and my apartment was raw space when we moved in. I was literally here when the walls were put up. Everything was built as is and I didn't make any changes. However my upstairs neighbors made many changes, added a central air system (the rest of the tenants have wall units) and changed the location of all of their bathrooms. They own floor 31 and 32, a massive duplex. But again, they are saying they haven't seen any flies up there. 

So the saga continues and I will keep you posted as soon as I have any sort of an update.

Thanks again for allowing me to share.


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## benjo

*today's drain fly update*

So interesting news today. I did not walk into the demo-ed master bath at all this weekend. Today the contractor's arrived and went in there to finish the demo and he said there is an overwhelming stench of sewage in there. He can hardly stay inside. I never thought I'd be happy to hear about sewage stench but this must mean there is a sewage leak somewhere, right?

I just called the Super to come up and smell for himself. I also researched plumbers last night that do video camera pipe inspection, and made two calls this morning to two different local plumbers that offer this service.

yeah! sewage stench!!

The strange thing is that they have been in there for about 2 weeks now and this is the first time that they have smelled this odor. Why wouldn't it have been there before?


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## benjo

*drain fly update*

Update: Super and contractor think it is a dead animal, not a pipe. Just strange that it didn't smell last week.


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## benjo

*My drain fly update*

I had a very good meeting with an exterminator this afternoon, who is also a licensed union plumber. He was very helpful and really seems to know what he is doing.

He had me take a deep breath in different parts of the bathroom and then breathe by the toilet and it is evident that the smell is strongest by the toilet area. We also saw some flies hovering around where the toilet used to be (it is now capped). He detected a very strong sewage smell coming from the toilet. As the day progressed today the odor dissipated, and he said that is because today the bathroom door was being open and closed all day by the contractors that are still moving tile and garbage and insulation out of there. The smell was able to dissipate throughout the day (I guess into my apartment - gross). Because the door was closed for two days this weekend the smell was extremely strong this morning. So I guess that means no dead animal, definitely a sewage situation.

He thought it was the toilet. But I told him that the flies were behind the wall before, not the toilet. He guessed it is probably a cracked sewage or vent pipe, and if it is not cracked it is a hub that is not sealed properly. 

He said we do the following: 1) do a video examination of the pipe 2) pour a combination of Gentrol and IC2 down the pipe to kill the larvae 3) Jet the lines. Then if necessary 4) bomb the apartment with Gentrol. He said Gentrol is a poison that will cause the flies to be born with defects and they die within 2 hours of birth and are unable to lay eggs. 

Then finally he will change all of the hubs on the pipes and completely seal them off.

He is getting back to me with a price for all of this by wednesday. He is guessing it will come out to between 5k and 7k. I am already 5k in for the demo. I am wondering how much of this insurance will cover if any. I am also afraid to get insurance involved because I am afraid they will drop me. I was already dropped once by Chubb because of a major leak that was caused by my upstairs neighbor. 

How does this all sound? Does it sound legit? It made sense to me and I think I am going to move forward with this man. Right now I feel that I am in good hands.


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## PAbugman

Yes, the sewage stench is exciting! Psychoda (sewer flies) come from sewage or stagnant water. 

Odors also come and go because of negative/positive air pressures due to air handling eqpt., barometric pressure, exhaust fans, temperatures, etc.

Gentrol is an Insect Growth Regulator (IGR). We use it a lot, mostly for roaches, sometimes for stored product pests. It is labeled for fruit flies, filth flies (your guys), etc. At the risk of sounding like a broken record-finding, removing, repairing is so much more effective than any chemical treatment. I think that "Jetting the lines" (if that means cleaning) will be more beneficial as will the ensuing repairs. 

Bombing the apartment with Gentrol wouldn't be necessary or effective, as they are not breeding/living in the apt. It won't hurt anything, as Gentrol is so safe it is almost non-toxic. We use it in restaurants, medical facilities routinely. The IGR's have changed our industries tactics a lot (for the better). I don't know what IC2 is. He does sound like a very legit and professional operator. My difference of opinion as to the use of gentrol as he wishes should not discourage you from hiring him. I'm not experienced in that type of building or urban area-he is. Our apt bldgs are about 3-4 stories at the most, unless we go to Harrisburg (not much higher). 

Once their source is destroyed, cleaned, sealed off-they will not have a breeding media. If you continue to see live adult flies after all this-then the problem still hasn't been solved.

If it turns out to be the sewage pipe; isn't that a "common" pipe to the entire bldg? Shouldn't that be the expense of building/condo ownership?

I have a feeling that you are close to solving this; I can't help but think that building owner ship may have a financial liability here. Keep the updates coming.


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## benjo

*Drain fly update*

According to the exterminator IC2 is an eco-friendly natural pesticide that is made out of wintermint, clove oil and thyme oil.

I will keep you posted when we get started... hopefully within the next two weeks.


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## amyevans

Glad you're making progress - best of luck. It sounds like this will be sorted soon.

Yet whether or not you should get your insurance involved should depend on if or not you can afford the work yourself. If you can't, why place yourself in debt if the insurance will pay for it?

Good luck again


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## Tritonics

Hello Benjo-

I live downtown and was curious about your outcome- how did it go? I would like to get the name of the plumber you used.


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## benjo

*My drain fly update*

Unfortunately i have made no progress at all with our drain fly problem. We have discovered that the sewage smell was there because when we removed the toilet during the bathroom demo, it was not capped properly. Once we capped the toilet the right way, the smell dissapeared.

To say i am frustrated and desperate is an understatement. I wish i could offer advice on plumbers but so far not a single one has offered any useful advice. No one seems to want to tackle this problem. Even my building manager is avoiding the issue. He sent me an entomologist who poked around a little, went to the basement to look at pipes and then told me i need to locate the source. Duh.

I did like John from Hub Plumbing but he just came for an estimate, then sent his partner for a 2nd opinion. Both said that my bathroom is bone dry, no signs of leaks, everything looks perfect. To do a video of each pipe would be $700 per pipe and there are so many pipes they did not think it was worth the money to me. He said finding a separated vent line could be like finding a "needle in a haystack" in my apartment(if that is the problem). I called him back last week about trying a smoke test, and he said he would ask his supplier about that, but I haven't heard back from him since. He did have a very nice disposition and seemed like a nice guy, but I can't speak for his work. 

The only person who has appeared interested in helping is Craig with Pestaway. He is an exterminator and a plumber and he has been very helpful and eager to help me. Unfortunately the owner of that company Jeff is very unethical. After sending Craig over twice for an estimate (I had him come a 2nd time after discovering that the sewer smell was just the toilet plug) Jeff told me i owed him $275 per Craig's visit for a consult fee. This had never been brought up to me before. They had told me their estimates were free. Suddenly he was calling it a consultation. He said " what do you expect, we give advice for free?" . Not a smart business man since i was considering moving forward with him for thousands of dollars. Of course i didn't pay and now I don't trust the company at all. Jeff was just so sleazy.

I don't know what to do. I was told a smoke test will not work in an apartment building because with 32 floors I could not build up enough pressure for the smoke test to be effective. I was told that hydro-jetting my pipes may not work because the jet may only be able to reach a limited distance ( is this true? I have no idea. I have yet to research hydro-jetting). My contractor, who I really like, feels that it is not a pipe problem at all. 

Our next move is to remove all of the insulation in the bathroom, use expansion foam to fill in every opening we can reach around pipes from floor to ceiling to seal the room up, and then put carpet tape up between the beams facing into the rest of the apartment to try to catch the flies to determine which direction they may be coming from. My contractor feels the source has something to do with the central air conditioning unit that sits above my bedroom foyer from my upstairs neighbors. We are trying to get access into their apartment, which isn't easy. They are not very cooperative. Also they have not complained of flies. Perhaps they haven't seen any because their condensation line is under a slab and the flies are finding a better path to my place?? Just a thought.

So now I am sitting with a demo'd bathroom and just waiting. I will not close the walls until this issue is resolved. I feel the problem is somewhere very close to that master bath. If there are no flies downstairs, and no flies upstairs, and some flies around my apartment but most in that vicinity... I have to be close, right? 

This is utterly depressing. They are getting worse by the day, I feel like I am living some sort of bad horror movie. Manhattan apartment swarmed by flies. UGH.

I will continue to keep you all posted. Any support or advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## benjo

*drain fly part 2 today*

As for the building's financial responsibility, the building manager told me that if the problem is indeed with the sewage lines, then yes it is their responsibility to fix any leak and have the financial burden. But he is not willing to take the appropriate steps to locate the problem. The burden of proof seems to fall on me right now. Thus the reason he is avoiding me I am guessing. He doesn't return emails when I ask about hydro jetting and smoke tests etc.. But I am persistent, I will continue to stalk him in the nicest way possible. 

I am already in $5k for the demo. The exterminator/plumber quoted me $5200 to hydro jet with chemicals. Seems like a lot, doesn't it?


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## benjo

*My drain fly update*

My drain fly saga continues. I had the pipes in my master bedroom video inspected and found nothing. Then i had the same pipes tested with a smoke bomb and found nothing. I paid the exterminator that i thought was so nice Craig $1500 as a deposit to fog my ceiling and snake and clean all of the pipes in the apartment. He has since dissappeared without doing the work and is not returning calls or emails. I have learned since then that he is a scam artist with a reputation for taking money and not following through on his work. So on top of my bug problem I have been robbed of $1500 from a supposed exterminator. Turns out he isnt even a licensed plumber as he had claimed to be. No wonder he was so eager to "help". He saw my desperation and completely took advantage of me and robbed me.

The flies are still there but seem to be reduced in number lately, no idea why. I checked the a/c unit above me and it is fine. Pulled apart my washer dryer unit and that is fine too. I am cursed with this problem. It is truly baffling.

In such a large building I may never find the source but I will not stop trying.


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## PAbugman

I'm stunned at your experience with "Craig". I've thought of you lately, wondering. I wish you weren't going thru this. Building management should be more active and helpful since it is an obvious problem as opposed to a vague complaint. I wish I knew what to do/say.


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## gemgold

*flies*

I also have tiny black flies congregating around the windows by the cart loads. I noticed them ever since there has been constant leaks through my ceiling from a busted tank in the loft of our neigbours. Their tank finally got fixed after 6 weeks, so a long time of stagnant water in the loft and apart from the damp smell from next doors walls. These flies have since appeared. They don't keep their drains clean either. So guess that could be the reason. So what will get rid of them and how long will it take. Thanks


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## pemaro

*Another kind of fly*

I live in old NYC apt. I read Benjo's posts and the replies with interest. The idea of sealing off possible entry points to identify where the pests are coming from is great, and I am trying it with saran.

I have flies that look like the ones that congregate in our lobby during the summer. They fly around certain places where there's no obvious attractant.

They are not psychoda. They look like d. melanogaster except bellies are striped. Also, they do not get caught by d. melanogaster vinegar traps. 

They invaded my apartment during the winter and remain. They like the kitchen near the sink where I hang my onions and potatoes (none are rotting). Moving the vegetables and cleaning up the area of water helps somewhat. They aren't reproducing in the sink drain; we eat pasta weekly, and the boiling water would kill larvae.

I photographed one of them with a macro lens. they are the size of drosophila and their wings fold like drosophila. No hairs. I can upload photo.

Can anyone help me identify them so I can develop a strategy to defeat them before summer?

I have an interesting story about a mouse infestation I solved if anyone's interested.

Thanks!

Peter


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## shaunam

Having read through this thread. I really feel sorry for you. It has to be driven you so crazy trying to get rid of those flies. I sure do hope someone finds an answer SOON.


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## shaunam

amyevan, there is a site called bug guide, you might go check that out, they have pictures that can help you identify whatever bug you may have. Hope it helps.


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## cleveman

I want to hear Pemaro's mouse infestation story. There is a guy in Nebraska with a mouse infestation.


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## pemaro

*drain flies and mice*

My flies aren't drain flies, but I saw there is a fly id web site on one of the replies. I'll check it out, but I didn't see site id.

re. mouse infestation: I have lived in the country, and country mice I know are nothing like NYC mice. NYC mice are sleek, smart, and mean. 

I began seeing mice after 20 years in apartment. Told Superintendent. He gave me glue traps. I caught one mouse, and wanted to let him go in Central Park, but he was so mad I was afraid he'd bite me, so I killed him.

Super said mice are coming in from Fresh Direct, a local grocer I do not use. I do get boxes, but I check them. I scoured the apartment, finding the mice first in my wife's closet, then in mine. 

I assured super they were from walls and he said no way. I suggested electrical boxes and he said no way because no space.

Then, I found a hole behind sink in wife's bathroom from when super replaced hot water riser and didn't fill in last hole. I had him plaster it up. 

Mice disappeared and never came back. so far, at least (1 year)

Moral: Mice can get in from walls. You can fill in walls if you live in plaster or sheetrock structure.

I hope that's useful.


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## cleveman

Sorry, but the guy in Nebraska has hundreds of mice. They catch them by the bucketfull.


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## shaunam

Amy, was hoping to hear how you got rid of your flies. They are gone,right?? I sure do hope so.


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## biggles

did you consider that expanding spray foam with the tube to fill any and all the openings,are there died flies in the light fixtures?are there any odors rolling around the apt something is atracting them,and as normal they head to the windows and light.is there a garbage room or shoot you drop the trash down.that drain thing sounds wierd they have to swim thru the traps to get into the rooms.i would fog out the bathroom before it is redone...and start hitting each room with the foam stuff even clear caulk with gun and seal the room one by one.cabinet foods are sealed and the kitchen garbage container is tight?did you check the bottom of the frig stale water from the defrost cycle might be laying in the pan there....has this started with the use of your air conditioning...? fan coil units or window units..standing water within the units?


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## biggles

i guses the problem is solved standing water in the traps or something dead in the wall .cycle all your water drains with bleach every night and what up with the air conditioning?:huh: 30 yrs working HVAC in hi rise office buildings/condos..Manhattan.:thumbsup: you need to ask at a tenant meeting who has the same problem.. not above or below tenents north or south ....east or west facing


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## shaunam

Amy, did you figure out what fly it was? Also did you figure how to get rid of the flies?


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## SP1

*Get rid of bugs*

You need to go to the store and buy bug bombs, take everything living out of your apt and set them off, then pour drano max and amonia down your drains


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## shaunam

Benjo, is there any way you can sue this Craig for your money back? I would sure try, you have most of his information. Have you been able to get rid of the flies?


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## shaunam

This has gone on for so long I bet you are very tired of it all. Having to deal with how to get rid of flies and people scamming you is not fun at all. Have you come to any satisfaction?


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## mileslogan

*the smartest way to go about this would be to take down the ceiling 1st.*



benjo said:


> Hello, and thanks for reading my post.
> 
> We live on the 30th floor of a New York City apartment. I have a drain fly infestation, and according to my Superintendant I am the only tenant that has complained.
> 
> The flies seem to be based in my master bathroom, but we can not locate the source. Also even more than my bathroom the flies congregate around the windows all over my apartment, in all three bedrooms and the living room by the windows. Every day there are tons of them by the windows, dead and alive.
> 
> I have taped over the drains and found nothing. I have poured bleach down the drains many times. The exterminator has poured foam down the drains. I have left cups of oil as someone suggested around the apartment to try to locate the source to no avail. I have had the a/c units checked. The plumber is coming tomorrow to snake the drains. I do not know what to do! I have no idea where they are coming from. This is driving me crazy, we must kill about 50 a day. They are everywhere!
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Have you heard of photo imaging to find moisture behind the walls? How does a moisture meter work? Will it detect moisture behind the tile in my bathroom? I am not in the business, I am a housewife but I am handy and I am willing to spend money to get rid of these. I am going bananas here and I am obsessed with getting rid of them.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Lori


 you should take down the ceiling 1st in the bathroom total cost $380 at max if you are smart , its the smartest way to go. its more than likely coming from upstairs tenant negligence or moisture from broken pipe and or both. Also do you know what species they are ? im having a similar problem with a house / apt of mine with larvae / pshychoda / moth flies / roaches / and let me tell you that my house is immaculate.


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## shaunam

The landlord should do something about all the people in the one apartment. Per bedrooms should be how many can live there. He or she needs to make routine checks to make sure there isn't any more people than should be. If they are that dirty causing flies, roaches, ect to come into other peoples apartments they need to be evicted. We all know how much trouble it is to get rid of flies, roaches, ect. Some one needs to pay, send them the bill and if they don't pay sue them.


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## leeh

*can't get rid of flies?*

maybe time for an exorcist...just sayin':huh:


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