# Thoughts on tires



## RanK2 (Feb 19, 2020)

Have a 2013 Equinox with 72K miles. It still has the original Michelin tires. They look like they are hardly worn, BUT they are seven years old. Should these tires be trusted on a trip? 

I have heard that they shouldn't be pushed after 5 years. And I did have a good looking 8 year old Goodyear go flat on me, only to be told by the tire repair that it could not be repaired, and showed me the fine cracking taking place.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

You're probably going to get a variety of responses, and rightfully so because there are a number of factors and opinions, but, based on my own personal experiences and observations, I would be looking at replacements, regardless of wear bars or any other factors. Just plain old sunlight and time are as hard on tires as anything, and I've seen too many tires with minimal mileage that I wouldn't want to drive even a couple of miles on. And, in my opinion, "going on a "trip" is not a factor because I frankly think trips are sometimes overrated as far as vehicle maintenance is concerned. Not saying it's you, but in a similar regard we've all seen people who will drive back and forth to work, day in and day out, with dozens of stops for gas, groceries, and whatever, hundreds and hundreds of starts, stops, turns, sharp turns in and out of parking lots, etc., and all of a sudden it's a rush for the mechanic or whoever to change the oil, check the fluids, rotate the tires, and everything else because they're "going on a trip". Not every time, but many, a trip involves long stretches of highway, less braking, often with fewer starts and stops in 500 miles than a lot of people have in a two minute trip to the store, and ultimately less wear on the wearables. So not based on a trip, but on 7 year old tires that you obviously have some question about, I would probably replace them.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

The wife had a car ( KNOX ) that had premature tire problems. We happen to have had service from a tire shop guy that is as honest as the day is long. He knows tires and looked at some number on the 4 tires and with that information he said: " _Those 2 front tires were junk when they were put on at the factory but the 2 back tires are good_ ". This was after i was tired of those tires and mentioned to him to just to replace all 4 with new. So it can be a toss of the coin. I once had a spare tire for a pick-up truck that had never been mounted, went bad with a bulge while hanging. If those were mine i'd air them to within 5 psi of max stated on the tire and never look back. Their proven and a new tire isn't.


EDIT: EDIT:


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

As long as there aren't any more than minor weather checking I wouldn't be overly concerned. I'd be more concerned if there were a lot of highway miles or if it was on my wife's car. The main thing is to inspect them regularly and don't run them soft.


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## Old Thomas (Nov 28, 2019)

I worry after 10 years. It depends what they look like.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

I'll ride a tire till its almost bald.

And I don't care how old it is.

You see people riding with the wires showing so that'll tell all you need to know.

Ever moved a mobile home/trailer some of those tires are 20+ years old.


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## ZTMAN (Feb 19, 2015)

If the sidewalls are cracking, I would go to a Michelin dealer and have them look at the tires. Many times, they will "adjust" the tires if there is significant cracking. Meaning, they will look at your tread depth and credit you a percentage towards the purchase of a new set. 
My brother retired from GY and the stores did this all of the time for cracking sidewalls.


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## RanK2 (Feb 19, 2020)

Thanks all, great info. ..... Yes, it is possible the 8 year old Goodyear, with hardly any wear, may have been unrepairable 'because it did go flat' while parked, and thus aggrevated the cracking. The tire guys pumped it up and the air was leaking through the sidewall.

The Michelins look like they have another 50K miles on them, but it's the wifes car and she will be making a 300 mile trip to our daughters, so I was a little concerned about the age. ....... But I'm also concerned about dropping $600 prematurely. ....... Decisions decisions.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

The Michelins are fine, IMO. I might start worrying about them at 10 years or if they develop dry rot or cracks.




RanK2 said:


> Thanks all, great info. ..... Yes, it is possible the 8 year old Goodyear, with hardly any wear, may have been unrepairable 'because it did go flat' while parked, and thus aggrevated the cracking. The tire guys pumped it up and the air was leaking through the sidewall.
> 
> The Michelins look like they have another 50K miles on them, but it's the wifes car and she will be making a 300 mile trip to our daughters, so I was a little concerned about the age. ....... But I'm also concerned about dropping $600 prematurely. ....... Decisions decisions.


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

I've had Michelin tires for years. some were excellent and some not so.
One set lasted 92,000 miles on a work van.
One set had the sidewalls fail after 5 years with relatively low mileage on a SUV.
It's your call. If you live in hot climate, replacing based on their condition makes sense. And you don't have to replace with Michelin tires.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

This one held air long enough to get to the consignment auction. What's the problem Vern?:biggrin2:


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If it was my wife and daughters, I'd replace the front ones, but maybe not the back. A high-speed blowout on the back is inconvenient, but far less dangerous than blowing a front tire on the interstate. 

Although, my go-to tire shop won't put a new pair on the front, at least not here, where snow and ice are common (sliding/spinout issues). I just rotate them myself if I choose to.


Btw, the DOT date code on the tires will tell you the age of the tires, which may be a year or 2 older than the vehicle.


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## papereater (Sep 16, 2016)

I wouldnt "drive em til theyre bald", as mentioned, as there is a good chance this can cost you your life (and those others inside the vehicle). If anything, drive them "til theyre bald" under 55 mphm, for no more than 20 minutes per trip. No jokes. 

I had tires 16 years old on my 87 sunbird GT. Did not go over 55, and only from/to work (15-20 minutes max). That way, even in summer, they cant heat up and explode. Yes, they will.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

HotRodx10 said:


> A high-speed blowout on the back is inconvenient, but far less dangerous than blowing a front tire on the interstate.



Actually I understood the reverse was true. A blowout on the rear is worse than on the front. Not sure why I thought that, but what I do know for sure is that a blowout on the rear is terrifying. I had one on I95 many years ago, at 70 mph. ............Did a little web after I wrote the above, (I'm bored) and the opinions expressed were about 50/50 which is more dangerous. Soooo, I am going with ANY blowout is dangerous.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

A blowout on the front is much more likely to cause a loss of control or a rollover. 



Anyway, a question I forgot to ask is whether yours are run on flat (ROF) tires. Some of the newer vehicles came with those as OE.


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## DexterII (Jul 14, 2010)

We all have different circumstances and so on, and what's prudent for one is not necessarily prudent for another. So there are a number of good and proper solutions in regard to how we handle various things, and some of those good and proper or right solutions may be in direct contrast to the next persons right solution, but as long as it fits the individual needs it's all good. In regard to tires, as well as batteries, brakes, and other items where wear and time are factors, my opinion is that there is only one way to get the absolute maximum service, and that is to drive it until the tire blows out, the car won't start or stop, or whatever. And the problem is that the tire usually won't blow out with the car parked in the driveway some Friday night so that it can be addressed Saturday morning. No, it blows out on the way to work, church, the grocery store, or wherever, usually at the least opportune time. This is the reason that I generally replace such things when I begin to suspect them, but also understand that I have possibly thrown away some money over the years in doing this, so, at a minimum, a thorough inspection is in order, and take it from there. But I'm not going to start playing the odds of it's on the front or the back, or it's on the curb side, and figure nobody will get hurt too bad so it's okay.


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## RanK2 (Feb 19, 2020)

dj3 said:


> And you don't have to replace with Michelin tires.


That's for sure in this situation. As the vehicle probably now only gets 6k miles a year, any high milage tire is going to age rot before it wears out.


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## polarzak (Dec 1, 2008)

HotRodx10 said:


> A blowout on the front is much more likely to cause a loss of control or a rollover.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, a question I forgot to ask is whether yours are run on flat (ROF) tires. Some of the newer vehicles came with those as OE.



Thanks. I will add your opinion to the various opinions I looked into. I am not going to bother listing sites, it seems everyone has an opinion on this. While I don't believe you were asking me if I had ROF tires when I had my blow out, just in case, no, regular tire. Can't remember the brand.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I've only had 2 blowouts, once while my truck was parked and the other time it was a snow tire sitting along side of the barn. I'm not sure when that one blew.


I think the main reason I've not had blowouts is because I keep the tires aired up and inspect them periodically .... and on my personal vehicles I tend to run the tires until it's no longer safe to do so.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> While I don't believe you were asking me if I had ROF tires when I had my blow out,



I was asking the OP. Having a blowout with a run-flat tire doesn't pose as much risk, due to the drag not being as significant (so it doesn't pull to the side as badly) and the rim isn't going drop onto the pavement and possibly dig in, as can happen when a regular tire blows out.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

If you don't have anti-lock brakes be careful of the tires you buy.

I bought a set of michelin tires and the pattern was across the tire instead running with. 

The tires were only 3 weeks old
I had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of me.
The tread pattern collapsed and created a permanent flat spot on all four tires causing the vehicle to ride in an up-down way.

michelin the manufacturer was not going to honor their 30 day money back if not completely satisfied warranty. 
Just think, if this would have happened after the thirty days I would have been stuck with four new WORTHLESS TIRES.

I posted this situation on 4 DIY sites and several forums.

I no longer do business with michelin period.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 18, 2020)

ron45 said:


> If you don't have anti-lock brakes be careful of the tires you buy.
> 
> I bought a set of michelin tires and the pattern was across the tire instead running with.
> 
> ...


Michelin isn't the only tire company with tread designs like that, and any tire will get a flat spot if you lock up the tires at any appreciable speed. I really don't see how this is their fault in any way. 

Like getting mad that you blew a shock because you hit a huge pothole.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

Not the concern of the OP, but I've discovered that many all-season tires (including Michelins) manage to get their stellar rating for ice and snow traction combined with a long treadlife warranty by using different tread compounds for the outer half of the tread and deeper part. So, you get a softer compound with better grip for the first 30,000 miles or so, until the outer layer is worn off, then your ice traction goes to crap as you get to the harder rubber compound that gets it the 80,000 mile treadlife. Something to watch out for if ice and snow traction is important to you - there's no free lunch - you don't get a tire that will last 80,000 miles with good ice and snow traction for the whole 80,000 miles. I've found a few reasonably priced tires that are really good on ice and snow...for about 40,000 miles. I just replace them at that point. No reason to spend twice as much on Michelins or some of the Continental, Bridgestone, Goodyear, or Yokohama models, to get that long mileage warranty if it's going to be like driving on plastic wheels the last 40k miles. According to Tirerack's consumer surveys, almost all Pirelli and Falken tires are no good on ice and snow at all.


<< cease rant >>.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Joeywhat said:


> Michelin isn't the only tire company with tread designs like that, and any tire will get a flat spot if you lock up the tires at any appreciable speed. I really don't see how this is their fault in any way.
> 
> Like getting mad that you blew a shock because you hit a huge pothole.


Your kidding right.


Because michelin as with some others companies claim to be great tires for braking to keep people safe and still stay tough for the expected life of the tire.

$500 + dollars per tire and the first time you slam on the brakes their junk.


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## ajaye (May 19, 2019)

think it also depends if the car is FWD or RWD,
it's the driven wheels I think is bad on a blow out



HotRodx10 said:


> A blowout on the front is much more likely to cause a loss of control or a rollover.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, a question I forgot to ask is whether yours are run on flat (ROF) tires. Some of the newer vehicles came with those as OE.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

The wheels that have the least traction usually take the lead, that's been proven. So in the case of a blowout which is it going to be on which vehicle, FWD, AWD, 4WD or 1WD on a bicycle or motorcycle. I doubt you'll find any accurate research on blowouts. Roll the dice.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

Sold and installed tires for many years. *You've heard and read a lot of utter nonsense so far.* Rather than respond to each completely wrong post i'll give my opinions.

*Age* Most manufacturers warranty their tires for five or six years for defects. Once you're beyond that point it's wise to replace them, _regardless_ of tread life.
However. Age is only one component you should use to replace them. If the tires in question have been in a garage environment most of the time and have been driven on regularly, then while it's still advisable to replace them, it's possible to drive further, but being very careful to note any anomalous behaviour. Change them immediately if you do notice anything unusual in the way they respond.
If the vehicle has been parked outside, especially if it has sat for long periods at a time, then change the tires. As the tire rolls during use, emollients are released from within the rubber, keeping the tire soft and supple. Outside exposure, especially in hot climes, "drys out" those emollients and makes the rubber less soft and supple. So does sitting for long periods (think boats, RVs, etc) because the tires don't "roll."

The caveat, again, to this, is it also depends on the type of driver we are talking about. I have driven the same model of car for almost 20 years, i'm on my third one and may be buying a fourth one soon. I can tell you which tire is low on air pressure based on how the car is driving, i'm that acclimated with it's responses. I can tell you if the car is making a new noise, if the temperature is a little higher than normal, if it seems down on power, if it's using more fuel, etc. *I'm very familiar with my car.* If you can say the same about your wife, then you can trust her to be aware of any weird behaviour. If, on the other hand, she is like most people; just turns the car on and drives, it's wise to change the tires.
In summary; As the tires age they are more susceptible to leaks, failures, punctures blowouts, etc. It is recommended to change them at six years regardless of condition, having considered how much they were kept out in the sun, how attuned the driver is to their vehicle, how they were maintained, how often the vehicle sat for long periods at a time. (I ride a motorcycle to work daily. I drive my car once a week as part of it's maintenance.) 

*Quantity* In general it is best to change tires in complete sets of four. If your car has a full size spare consider changing the best of the old four tires with the spare, depending on the condition of the spare.
For All Wheel Drive and Four Wheel drive vehicles, change tires in sets of four. There are very specific circumstances when it's ok to just change one or two, if you got the tires installed last week for instance, and just had an irrepairable puncture.
Your tires must be within a certain very narrow circumference for all your cars systems to operate best; ABS, anti slip, anti skid, etc. They go by various names depending no manufacturer. (A lady had her tires upsized at one of our stores, but didn't include the spare. Had a flat tire, installed the full size spare tire, and continued to drive as normal. A few months later her transfer case blew out. $6000 repair. Because the spare tire was marginally smaller than the other tires.)
Always INSTALL SNOW TIRES IN SETS OF FOUR. Make sure to check the air pressure in said spare.

*Placement* If installing less than four tires then install the new tires on the rear axle of the vehicle. FOR SAFETY.
If you have a tire issue with the rear tires (flat, puncture, blowout, whatever) you are _more_ likely to lose control than if the same happens with the front. Because most people over or under react to oversteer. (when the rear skids out much more than intended.) It doesn't matter if the vehicle is RWD, AWD or 4WD. (Rear, all, four wheel drive.) Most people will lose control of the car if the lose a rear tire. A front tire typically results in more understeer type behaviour (turns less than you want to/ goes straight when you're trying to turn. You can always brake in that situation then get off the road.)

*Inflation* Do NOT inflate your tires to the max printed on the sidewall. A tire of the same size may be specified on a very light car or a very heavy car. Same size. (mid/ late 90s Honda Civics {~3000lbs}use the same tire size as early 90s Mercedes E class {~3500- 4000lbs} for instance.) Use the sticker on the drivers door jamb, sometimes the fuel tank door, sometimes (older cars now) the glovebox, center console or even in the trunk on the spare wheel cover, for the correct inflation pressure.
I add 3 psi to both the front and rear if i'm going on a long drive. It gives _marginally_ better fuel economy. By long drive I mean +500 miles.
Check your air pressure, including your spare, once a month.

All cars built since 2008 are required to have a tire pressure monitoring system. It could be direct (an actual sensor detects tire pressure) or indirect (uses ABS to detect circumference of tire by comparing revolutions per minute/ mile of all tires.)
Nitrogen is a worthy upgrade for those people who are bad about checking their tire pressure. That's most of you. lain:

*Tread* When the tire has 2/ 32nds of tread left it is considered bald and must be replaced. At that point it has reached the "wear bars." That's the federal rule and all tires sold in the US must meet/ exceed the federal rules. (Some state tire tread depth regulations may be higher. 3/ 32 in California for instance.)
The higher your tread depth (in general) the better your wet traction, braking and tire life. So you're right to say you _could_ have another 50k miles in those tires. But how old will they be by then?

*Flat spots* are NOT a tire defect. They're the result of hard braking, locking up the wheels or skidding. That is not a tire defect, that is *directly the result of driver behaviour.*  Not warranted.

*Brands* I'm partial to Michelin. Then Bridgestone. But, in general, any name brand tire should be good/ better (some have individual tire lines that are turds) in comparison to some brands you've never heard off. An established tire manufacturer has a brand and reputation to maintain. They are more likely to have engineered the tire to a higher degree than just meeting the federal standards, which are pretty low; treadwear, traction, temperature.
One of the 3 (of the same) cars I bought had brand new generic tires installed on it when I bought it. I drove it home to Los Angeles in December, in terrible rain and it was ... fine. (I drove more tentatively as it was new to me and I was unsure about the previous owners maintenance. I had no "baseline" yet with that car.) A few months later, in LA, those same tires hydroplaned like crazy every time I was in the rain. Thankfully it doesn't rain much in So Cal.

You want your tires to give you long life, good handling, good wet weather handling, good braking, quiet ride, smooth ride, good fuel efficiency, etc etc etc etc. (Michelin tends to be good at giving you tires that perform well across the board.) *You're NOT going to get a tire that does everything well, every single tire is a compromise. 
A tire with great handling (almost any sports car/high performance tire) is generally going to have a shorter life than a broadline tire (something used in a mainstream sedan.) That's because the performance tire uses a softer rubber, giving it more "grip" for the handling, braking and performance required. A softer rubber wears out quicker. A performance tire will usually have a stiffer carcass too; resulting in less "squish" when you brake, turn or accelerate, giving you more confident handling at higher limits.

Tire life How long a tire depends on how you drive, where you drive and how it's maintained. Tires wear out when you accelerate, brake and turn, versus just rolling down the road.
You drive fast, accelerate fast, brake and turn fast= short tire life. You accelerate more moderately, brake gently and turn at lower speeds, you get longer life. 
You do more city and mountain/ canyon driving= shorter life. You commute 60 miles each way on the highway or a rural road at constant speed= longer life. (Caveat: start and stop driving in heavy traffic on the freeway, like during commute hours, can kill tire life. Because of all the start, stop, start, stop nature of that environment.)
You don't check your tire pressures, rotate tires, do other auto maintenance that can affect your tires (alignments, shock/ strut replacement, bushings, etc) and your tires won't last as long as if you did. The reverse, is obviously true.
However, (there are a lot of caveats and exceptions) if you are very good about doing your tire maintenance, but drive aggressively, your driving is going to wear out your tires. If you're bad about maintenance, but drive like my mum, your tires will probably last a long time. (mums retired, drives a couple of times a week, not far, takes her car for servicing twice a year regardless of milage, and drives like shes Driving Miss Daisy.) 

There's a lot of factors that affect tire wear.*


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

neanderth4l said:


> Sold and installed tires for many years. *You've heard and read a lot of utter nonsense so far.* Rather than respond to each completely wrong post i'll give my opinions.
> 
> *Age* Most manufacturers warranty their tires for five or six years for defects. Once you're beyond that point it's wise to replace them, _regardless_ of tread life.
> However. Age is only one component you should use to replace them. If the tires in question have been in a garage environment most of the time and have been driven on regularly, then while it's still advisable to replace them, it's possible to drive further, but being very careful to note any anomalous behaviour. Change them immediately if you do notice anything unusual in the way they respond.
> ...


*
Did you torque the lug nuts with a torque wrench that was occasionally calibrated while your impact wrench stayed in the tool cabinet?


EDIT: EDIT:*


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Did you torque the lug nuts with a torque wrench that was occasionally calibrated while your impact wrench stayed in the tool cabinet?
> 
> 
> EDIT: EDIT:


We sent each of the torque wrenches to be calibrated twice a year. 
Rotated them every day.
Checked their calibration daily before use.
Set the torque to zero/ released the torque every night. (usually after most uses.)
Torqued each vehicle to the manufacturers spec.
And only used impact wrenches that were forward limited to 50ft/ lbs.
We also cleaned the mating surfaces of the wheel and the hub with a wire brush.

But that has nothing to do with my opinions on tires. It just means that the company had high standards.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

neanderth4l said:


> We sent each of the torque wrenches to be calibrated twice a year.
> Rotated them every day.
> Checked their calibration daily before use.
> Set the torque to zero/ released the torque every night. (usually after most uses.)
> ...


High standards was the subject i was reading into the OP.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> Placement If installing less than four tires then install the new tires on the rear axle of the vehicle. FOR SAFETY.


That's the current theory, primarily due to power steering especially in heavier vehicles.

If you ever buy a classic american car or truck without power steering, especially those that have/had an oversized steering wheel, the new tires went up front. If not, a blowout would yank the steering wheel out of your grasp as the front wheels cranked fully over to the blowout side. You would be lucky not to end up upside down in a ditch if traveling at highway speeds.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

Oso954 said:


> That's the current theory, primarily due to power steering especially in heavier vehicles.
> 
> If you ever buy a classic american car or truck without power steering, especially those that have/had an oversized steering wheel, the new tires went up front. If not, a blowout would yank the steering wheel out of your grasp as the front wheels cranked fully over to the blowout side. You would be lucky not to end up upside down in a ditch if traveling at highway speeds.


The over size steering wheel is the direct result of the lack of power steering. It gives you better leverage.

Physics defies your assertion that "a blowout would yank the steering out of your grasp." The law of the preservation of energy to be specific. A vehicle with a blown tire is more likely to veer in one direction in a generally straight line or slight curve. Most steering systems, especially of those non powered systems, are 3 to 4 turns lock to lock. Only a specific set of circumstances would make the steering "turn by itself" a full one and a half to two turns. Self centering steering is designed to alleviate that.
Try this at a low speed in an empty parking lot.
Turn the wheel slightly when going forward, then let go of the steering. As the car goes forward it naturally returns to center/ straight ahead. That's designed into the steering, it's built in.

Also, alignment geometry, self centering steering, Ackerman steering, and a whole host of other things. Additionally, those tires back then were typically tall sidewall tires with bias ply construction.

<edit> I also have a classic car that doesn't have power steering.


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## ajaye (May 19, 2019)

Dude, 
with 3 posts's on your first ever thread reply under your belt, I wouldn't have started off my reply with your below statement.

Not to say that people should not correct or even state facts but sauntering into a forum, with some pretty solid members and your opening is *"a lot of utter nonsense so far* is a bit rich mate. 

I've seen the result of that on other forums and the result was not pretty, most members here are decent and polite.

1st your opening statement isn't correct, I don't care who you are or what you do for a living, I don't "KNOW" you and that is the problem with getting advice form total strangers. The people here have all earned there time helping others and proving there worth. I can tell you with 100% certainty, members of this forum are solid gold and helped me out numerous times.

If your wise I would revise how you try to relate to forum members in future and people may actually read your "TED" talk, btw, it was TLR

Even if your right, I did not even bother and I doubt most would even stop to read a 1600 word diatribe. Just because you fitted tires for years means nothing. My neighbor worked at jiffylube for 10 years I wouldn't let me check the fluid in my windscreen washer on my old 12y POS neon 

Be humble because just when you think you got all the answers, is the moment when some bitter twist of fate in the universe will remind you that you very much don't. :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_smirk::vs_smirk::vs_smirk:



neanderth4l said:


> Sold and installed tires for many years. *You've heard and read a lot of utter nonsense so far.* Rather than respond to each completely wrong post i'll give my opinions.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

ajaye said:


> Dude,
> with 3 posts's on your first ever thread reply under your belt, I wouldn't have started off my reply with your below statement.
> 
> Not to say that people should not correct or even state facts but sauntering into a forum, with some pretty solid members and your opening is *"a lot of utter nonsense so far* is a bit rich mate.
> ...



I call a spade a spade and I call bull**** utter nonsense what it is.

If you want me to, I can quote almost. every. post. in the thread and correct what's wrong in said post. When I post that "he's read/ heard a lot of utter nonsense," it's because that's exactly what i've read; a lot of utter nonsense and old wives tales. And i've done the whole tire sales thing long enough to see/ hear most of this same nonsense almost every week. I've also had many people try to tell me about things about tires, when i'm ... more expert than they are. 
I don't argue with my tax guy. My dentist. My lawyer. The barista at the coffee shop. Anybody I have to turn to for a service or product that i'm not very familiar with. I educate myself as best as I can, get what information I can, corroborate as necessary, move on and use it as I need to. Feel free to check on everything i've said.

If you have some level of expertise on tires to profer, you should offer it up. Otherwise, thanks for the warm welcome.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> Physics defies your assertion that "a blowout would yank the steering out of your grasp."...I also have a classic car that doesn't have power steering.



Ever blown out a front tire on it at highway speed?


If you did, I think you'd have to revise your view of the physics. When one front tire suddenly goes flat, the drag on that side increases dramatically. From my understanding of physics (which is fairly substantial) and 'crap your pants' experience, I can tell you that Oso954 is absolutely correct.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

HotRodx10 said:


> Ever blown out a front tire on it at highway speed?
> 
> 
> If you did, I think you'd have to revise your view of the physics. When one front tire suddenly goes flat, the drag on that side increases dramatically. From my understanding of physics (which is fairly substantial) and 'crap your pants' experience, I can tell you that Oso954 is absolutely correct.


:biggrin2:

Actually, I have. first time, In a fully loaded Nissan Laurel on the way to my grandmothers house, out in the country. The car kept going straight, albeit with a slight pull to the side of the blown tire. I was ~17 maybe.

I turned to my dad and said "there's something wrong." He wanted me to describe it but I couldn't; I didn't have the lexicon as I didn't yet have 30 years of driving experience under my belt. I hadn't yet gone on to be an auto mechanic. I hadn't sold or installed tires. I said "i'm not sure, but it doesn't feel right." We pulled over. Sure enough, right front completely destroyed. And I had to change it in the hot African sun.

Also, Pontiac Bonneville on I5N to San Francisco from Los Angeles. What happened, nothing; car kept going straight, even with the RF blown tire. Rental car, taking my cousins from England to my aunts in San Francisco. Yes, I had to change it again.

Mercedes E320. I've had 3 of these over 20 years, many flats. Nothing funny happens. I drove extensively as I enjoy seeing the country and I played rugby for many years. Many away games all over southern California, from San Luis Obispo to Las Vegas and even Phoenix. No drama after blown/ flat tires, ever.
Same with my vintage BMW 2002. The craptastic Toyota Corolla I hated.
(Even had a couple on my motorcycle; Honda Africa Twin. Everybody likes to say "with a tubed tire, once it gets punctured it (the tube) gets destroyed and you lose control. *Nope.* Not my experience at all. But motorcycles, and motorcycle dynamics in particular, aren't my area of expertise. I'm still waiting for the butt clenching moment.)

Just don't give sudden inputs to the steering or brakes; don't upset the "balance" of the vehicle and you'll mostly be alright. 

Give a car with a low/ blown tire a sudden input and it will react in a way you're not expecting.
Michelin has a nice demonstration unit they connect to a car that unsettles it on a wet pavement, simulating a loss of control. Like you'd get with a blown tire. Just about everybody lost control. I didn't; I know what understeer is and what over steer is and how to counter them.
The one used for motorcycle will nearly stop your heart.

But I can say this after many years driving and many years fixing. Most people over react to the incident, causing an even bigger incident. If you're smooth with your inputs, your application or reduction of power, your brakes, your steering, usually you can come to a controlled stop.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

I noticed you neglected to mention the model year for all but one and your speed at the time of the blowout. Sounds like you've had lousy luck with tires, though, with having that many blowouts. I've had that many flat tires, but I haven't known anyone else who had that many real blowouts. 



Well anyway, my experience blowing a tire in my 1969 Chevy pickup was altogether different, neanderth4l. It's not something I would care to repeat, nor would I suggest it for anyone else.


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## DoomsDave (Dec 6, 2018)

@RanK2, welcome, and nice to meet you!

Where are you? That appears to be a hugely important question, as well as how is the vehicle stored?

As @dj3 noted, California is hard on tires. That summer sun on unprotected rubber can be murder. I've lived in Ohio and California, and they're like night and day in tire health.

If you're in California, or a hot place like it, and the vehicle has been stored in a garage, or at least had protective wood or other pieces over tires so the sun doesn't hit them, then that's better than if they've been out in the full blazing sun. This includes parking in hot parking lots for seven years.

If in a place like Ohio, usually not so bad, though other types of rot can occur.


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## 3onthetree (Dec 7, 2018)

neanderth4l said:


> But I can say . . .


Don't sound like a Neanderthal, sound well-traveled with alot of stories. There are lots of good people here with great stories that surface here and there (short versions though, lol). You'll also get challenged once a while so a thick skin is good, thanks for contributing your personal experience.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

HotRodx10 said:


> I noticed you neglected to mention the model year for all but one and your speed at the time of the blowout. Sounds like you've had lousy luck with tires, though, with having that many blowouts. I've had that many flat tires, but I haven't known anyone else who had that many real blowouts.
> 
> 
> 
> Well anyway, my experience blowing a tire in my 1969 Chevy pickup was altogether different, neanderth4l. It's not something I would care to repeat, nor would I suggest it for anyone else.


I never mentioned a single model year on any of the cars mentioned. :huh:

The BMW 2002 is a model that BMW sold from 1966- 1976.

My many flat tires are over many, many years; 30 years. When I travel, I like to rent a car and see the countryside. I drove nearly 1000 miles in Spain in 5 days and drove close to 4000 miles when I went to England for 6 weeks for World Cup Rugby. Most of that was flogging a diesel Vauxhall Insignia throughout Europe. It's quite a thing to see your estimated range as 800 miles.

I'm generally not looking at the speedo except to monitor my speed to ensure I don't get the attention of the revenue collectors.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

3onthetree said:


> Don't sound like a Neanderthal, sound well-traveled with alot of stories. There are lots of good people here with great stories that surface here and there (short versions though, lol). You'll also get challenged once a while so a thick skin is good, thanks for contributing your personal experience.


Thank you.
I had to dispel a lot of what was posted, sometimes on a daily basis.

Everybody drives, every day, mostly without incident, and therefore everybody reckons they are an expert on tires; they are all the same, just black and round and made of rubber, right? Wrong!

There's only a few square inches of rubber in contact with the road at any time, and Johnny Q Public is hurtling his 4-6000 lb vehicle down the road oblivious to the engineering that went into the tires. Buying quality tires should be a once every four to five year experience for most people. Amortise the cost of those tires over 5 years and suddenly they aren't that expensive.

The Michelin Premier AS tires on my car (aforementioned Mercedes E320) cost me nearly $700 8 years ago. The car has mostly sat for the last 5 years as I commute by motorcycle. Won't hesitate to replace those Michelins with another set. That's $140 a year for tires (based on 5 years life) which is barely over $11 a month.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

HotRodx10 said:


> I noticed you neglected to mention the model year for all but one and your speed at the time of the blowout. Sounds like you've had lousy luck with tires, though, with having that many blowouts. I've had that many flat tires, but I haven't known anyone else who had that many real blowouts.
> 
> 
> 
> Well anyway, my experience blowing a tire in my 1969 Chevy pickup was altogether different, neanderth4l. It's not something I would care to repeat, nor would I suggest it for anyone else.


Driving a Plymouth Fury lll

Age 18 doing a 110 mph.
Blowout front passenger side.
Steering whipped to the right and almost broke my thumb.
I grabbed steering with both hands and tried whipping it back to the left
The car whipped back to the left and hydroplaned off the road striking a telephone pole about 3-4 foot off the ground.

Talk about an @#$ puckering experience.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

neanderth4l said:


> :biggrin2:
> 
> Actually, I have. first time, In a fully loaded Nissan Laurel on the way to my grandmothers house, out in the country. The car kept going straight, albeit with a slight pull to the side of the blown tire. I was ~17 maybe.
> 
> ...


I doubt very much what you experienced was a blowout.
More like the tire going flat.

A blowout is where the tire explodes and the front will shake to the extreme.

It's not like do you feel something, its more like DAMN.






Everybody reads.


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

ron45 said:


> I doubt very much what you experienced was a blowout.
> More like the tire going flat.
> 
> A blowout is where the tire explodes and the front will shake to the extreme.
> ...


. 

And what you described was pure physics; start with your 110mph. Add a heavy clumsy car. On skinny bias ply tires. And an 18 year old.

Recipe for disaster. :wink2:


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

neanderth4l said:


> .
> 
> And what you described was pure physics; start with your 110mph. Add a heavy clumsy car. On skinny bias ply tires. And an 18 year old.
> 
> Recipe for disaster. :wink2:


I'll leave it at this and you can draw any conclusion you wish. 

"" Physics is the basic physical science. Until rather recent times physics and natural philosophy were used interchangeably for the science whose aim is the discovery and formulation of the fundamental laws of nature. As the modern sciences developed and became increasingly specialized, physics came to denote that part of physical science not included in astronomy, chemistry, geology, and engineering. Physics plays an important role in all the natural sciences, however, and all such fields have branches in which physical laws and measurements receive special emphasis, bearing such names as astrophysics, geophysics, biophysics, and even psychophysics. Physics can, at base, be defined as the science of matter, motion, and energy. Its laws are typically expressed with economy and precision in the language of mathematics.

Both experiment, the observation of phenomena under conditions that are controlled as precisely as possible, and theory, the formulation of a unified conceptual framework, play essential and complementary roles in the advancement of physics. Physical experiments result in measurements, which are compared with the outcome predicted by theory. A theory that reliably predicts the results of experiments to which it is applicable is said to embody a law of physics. However, a law is always subject to modification, replacement, or restriction to a more limited domain, if a later experiment makes it necessary.


The ultimate aim of physics is to find a unified set of laws governing matter, motion, and energy at small (microscopic) subatomic distances, at the human (macroscopic) scale of everyday life, and out to the largest distances (e.g., those on the extragalactic scale). This ambitious goal has been realized to a notable extent. Although a completely unified theory of physical phenomena has not yet been achieved (and possibly never will be), a remarkably small set of fundamental physical laws appears able to account for all known phenomena. The body of physics developed up to about the turn of the 20th century, known as classical physics, can largely account for the motions of macroscopic objects that move slowly with respect to the speed of light and for such phenomena as heat, sound, electricity, magnetism, and light. The modern developments of relativity and quantum mechanics modify these laws insofar as they apply to higher speeds, very massive objects, and to the tiny elementary constituents of matter, such as electrons, protons, and neutrons. ""


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

ron45 said:


> I'll leave it at this and you can draw any conclusion you wish.
> 
> "" Physics is ... *how things work.*


Fixed it for you.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

However you guys want to define physics, there are now 2 posters who have experienced the nearly overwhelming pull that happens when a front tire blows out on a vehicle with manual steering. With the power assist on nearly all new vehicles, it's probably not as physically demanding when it happens, nor is it anywhere near as common as it used to be. Although, as far as speed, we're creeping back up towards that 110mph, with 80mph speed limits becoming more common. 

Anyway, to bring it back a little closer to the subject, you've convinced me; seems blowing a rear tire may be as bad as blowing a front, on modern vehicles. Happy?

As far as the quality of various brands of tires, you can find numerous good options in all but the very cheapest price ranges, and you don't always get what you pay for. For what I need here in the great frozen north (ok Wyoming isn't that far north, but still), the worst tires I've driven on recently were Michelins. It seems on some of their models, they managed good ice and snow traction and the 80,000 mile treadwear by using 2 different rubber compounds - the outside half of the tread was softer, with better grip, but the bottom half of the tread was harder so it would wear longer. Once they were into the bottom half of the tread, it was like driving on plastic wheels in the snow. The highest rated (by Tirerack and myself) model for snow and ice traction (Kumho Crugen HT51) came in at about a third the price of Michelins (I didn't buy the Michelins - they came on a van I bought).


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## neanderth4l (Jun 7, 2020)

I'd like to point out that a Plymouth Fury III and 69 Chevy pickup are atypical of what is driven on the roads today.
Especially going 110mph.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

> I'd like to point out that a Plymouth Fury III and 69 Chevy pickup are atypical of what is driven on the roads today.
> Especially going 110mph.



Granted. I never claimed otherwise. I would never drive that old Chevy 110mph (or 80), anyway, regardless of what tires I had on it.


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