# Leave the desk PC on or off overnight ?



## Gregsoldtruck79

I have read pros and cons for both, but still not convinced which is best.

Just something about my PC getting rebooted every morning make's me think I will be more susceptible to, awaiting "upgrades" from WIN 10 that I don't want. 

So which one should it be, leave the desktop PC on all night or turn it off ?


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## Nealtw

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> I have read pros and cons for both, but still not convinced which is best.
> 
> Just something about my PC getting rebooted every morning make's me think I will be more susceptible to, awaiting "upgrades" from WIN 10 that I don't want.
> 
> So which one should it be, leave the desktop PC on all night or turn it off ?


 I leave mine on. Start up takes to long.


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## stick\shift

Booting it does nothing for the updates. One of the reasons for turning the PC off once in a while is to save wear and tear on the fans. Putting it to sleep accomplishes the same thing.


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## mark sr

I always turn mine off at night. If I turn the pc on first, it's up and running before I get a cup of coffee.


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## SeniorSitizen

I look at mine as if it were my 48 ford coupe. Leave it run because it may not start again.:biggrin2:


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## CaptTom

Shutting down and restarting does a lot of good things. The usual advice from people whose job it is to fix computers is to shut it down when you're done for the day.

Bad things accumulate over time. Memory leaks, bloated programs which load and stay resident, registry corruption, open file and resource handles, etc.

There's a reason every Help Desk tech in the world always starts with step 1 as "reboot and try again."

I should also add that "hibernation" mode is NOT shutting down. It just preserves the (possibly corrupt) state of the machine until next time.

The issue isn't really power consumption. Modern computers, and especially monitors, don't take much to begin with, and have power-saving features.


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## user_12345a

Hibernation saves the ram to the hard drive.

Sleep mode keeps the memory active but shuts everything else and is what I use.

Running all the time shortens the life of fans and makes heatsinks get dirty faster = more maintenance.

You shouldn't have to restart once a day unless there's a problem.

Recovering from sleep mode is very fast.



> The issue isn't really power consumption. Modern computers, and especially monitors, don't take much to begin with, and have power-saving features.


They still consume a fair bit, 50 to 100 watts idling. 

Sleep mode uses 1 or 2 watts.

Maybe if you're rich the $50 to $200 per year extra, depending on rates and consumption, isn't a lot but to me it's a waste.


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## CaptTom

Good points. I should elaborate that I'm not a fan of hibernate OR sleep mode. Both preserve the (possibly corrupt) state of the computer.

However, I find it hard to believe any modern computer uses 50 or 100W of power during either. A lot of power is also used by the monitor, although that varies widely by type.

While there's no need to reboot every day, doing so ensures that you start clean the next day, eliminates whatever power draw there is overnight, and reduces the exposure to harmful things like power surges. It's a good habit to get into, and over time, the benefits far outweigh the inconvenience of booting up next time. At work we used to say hit the button before you go get your coffee.


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## jlhaslip

I put my laptop in to Sleep mode by closing the lid a couple of times a day including overnight and do a shutdown/restart about every third or fourth day. 

Seems to work fine for me.


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## Gregsoldtruck79

So how can I tell whether my HP - desktop PC with the WIN 10 OS, is using the "sleep" or hibernation mode ?

I do have to move the mouse or hit a key, to stir it up again....first thing in the morning.


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## stick\shift

That would be sleep mode. Takes a while to come out of hibernation, just like an animal which does the same.


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## Drachenfire

My PC has been running pretty much 24/7. I do this mostly because my system is setup to run scheduled backups at night. 

It does get rebooted occasionally which everyone should do.

This flushes RAM which helps the systems performance. It stops memory leaks which can cause problems due to programs not closing properly. Rebooting also fixes small errors. When a computer boots, it runs a diagnostic on itself and automatically fixes minor errors.

Shutting down your PC at night will not hurt it. If you are impatient about it taking long to boot up, get a solid-state drive (SSD). It will cut your power up to desktop time down to about 20 seconds


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## SeniorSitizen

OK, I have a question if I may, pertaining to something my daughter suggested.

I think I have windows something. At least there is 4 window panes in a frame lookin thing in lower left corner.

I click on it and then in the upper right there is a little circle that someone drove a fence post in the top. I click it and get 3 options which of the 3 two are* restart *and *shutdown*. Question: is *restart *equal to a* reboot? *If not I'll change to clicking on shutdown and hope it starts back better than the 48 ford.

Ours remain on 24/7 more in winter than summer. They help keep the room warmer.


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## Drachenfire

*Restart* does indeed equate to *reboot*.


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## user_12345a

> Good points. I should elaborate that I'm not a fan of hibernate OR sleep mode. Both preserve the (possibly corrupt) state of the computer.
> 
> However, I find it hard to believe any modern computer uses 50 or 100W of power during either. A lot of power is also used by the monitor, although that varies widely by type.


I measured mine, the computer itself uses 100w idling. A more efficient one with integrated video may be 50 or 60, i have an inefficient quad core chip.

In sleep it's like 1w, it just trickles a little power to the ram to retain the information stored. Everything else is off.

The normal standby leave the computer on and shuts off disks, the cpu and gpu are idling away.

Goes up under load, but idle is what counts.

The state of the computer should not be "corrupt". If a machine needs to be restarted after only a day of use, there's a major problem.


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## CaptTom

user_12345a said:


> The state of the computer should not be "corrupt". If a machine needs to be restarted after only a day of use, there's a major problem.


In theory, you are correct.

In real life, there are lots of things that can go wrong. After 37 years working on computers, dating back to cassette tape data storage, 8" hard-formatted floppy disks and mainframes, I've seen most of them.

Trust me. Computers accumulate glitches.

I mentioned some potential problems above. There are lots more. Open files, or hanging file handles, can lead to file corruption that can spread to the file system itself, making the machine unusable. I could go on but it would get pretty boring.

The point becomes, there's very little benefit to keeping it powered up, sleeping or hibernating. But there is some risk.

I don't think anyone said it HAS to be restarted daily. Just that it's a good habit to get into.


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## user_12345a

I like not waiting for it to boot. may have to restart once a week or something when using sleep mode.

Back with win 9x and 3.1 could never do that, nt platform is stable enough to be left running for long periods of time. Things have really changed.


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## joed

Mine gets turned on when I get up and off when I go to bed.


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## Gregsoldtruck79

user_12345a said:


> I like not waiting for it to boot. may have to restart once a week or something when using sleep mode.
> 
> Back with win 9x and 3.1 could never do that, nt platform is stable enough to be left running for long periods of time. Things have really changed.



3.1 for a OS ??? Now that is a number that shows our age and I recall it well.  

I think my reservations of the on/off at night topic, started WAY back when I was running the WIN OS two steps above 3.1 (WIN 95 maybe ?) 

One night I just turned the power off to my desk top PC and went to bed. 

Fired it up the following morning and wow, the screen came up with what looked like the Russian hacking codes scrolling all over it.  

Called my techno-geek nephew later and he came over to undo, my done. I had forgotten about a CD I was running and had left it in the PC when I turned it off.

So when the HD fired up, it did not like it at all. It was trying to reconfigure and reformat the HD somehow, from the CD. He ended up installing a new HD for me..

Old mistakes seem to hang in our memories, so we will not repeat them I guess.


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## Drachenfire

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> Called my techno-geek nephew later and he came over to undo, my done. I had forgotten about a CD I was running and had left it in the PC when I turned it off.
> 
> So when the HD fired up, it did not like it at all. It was trying to reconfigure and reformat the HD somehow, from the CD. He ended up installing a new HD for me..
> 
> Old mistakes seem to hang in our memories, so we will not repeat them I guess.


And that is why I disable "Boot from CD" in my systems until I need it.


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## Guap0_

I have too many web sites, files, IRC & SSH connections & who knows what else on my desktops to shut down. It would be a waste of time & a PITA.


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## polarzak

Work PC: Simply log off or Lock. Occasionally a hard boot to clear memory etc.
Home PCs: Off when not being used. On when being used.


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## Guap0_

Is that your guideline? Does that mean all retirees must shut down?


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## Gregsoldtruck79

Guap0_ said:


> Is that your guideline? Does that mean all retirees must shut down?


Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I am all for legislation requiring anyone over 60, to take and pass a computer literacy test before they are allowed to post on the internet. :vs_laugh:


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## polarzak

Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I am all for legislation requiring anyone over 60, to take and pass a computer literacy test before they are allowed to post on the internet. :vs_laugh:


I would like anyone under 30 to take a grammar test. Perhaps they might learn the difference between "their", "there", and "they're" or "break" and "brake", and a myriad of other grammar and spelling issues.


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## Guap0_

They might also learn not to put a comma, in front of a conjunction.


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## user_12345a

> 3.1 for a OS ??? Now that is a number that shows our age and I recall it well.
> 
> I think my reservations of the on/off at night topic, started WAY back when I was running the WIN OS two steps above 3.1 (WIN 95 maybe ?)


yah, 3.1 installed from only 4-6 floppy disks if i remember correctly. was a very simply os, ran fine on 2 to 4mb of ram - not like the bloated stuff today that needs 2 to 4gb+ and like 15gb on the hard drive. 

This 'aint progress. 

But don't miss installing 95 from 13 floppy disks, i think it took 2 to 3 hours.


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## lenaitch

Guap0_ said:


> They might also learn not to put a comma, in front of a conjunction.


Well unless you are going for what is known as an Oxford Comma. It was recently at the centre of a civil action in Maine:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...ine-drivers-as-well-as-semicolon-victory.html


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## polarzak

Guap0_ said:


> They might also learn not to put a comma, in front of a conjunction.


"Use a comma *to separate the elements in a series* (three or more things), including the last two. "He hit the ball, dropped the bat, and ran to first base." You may have learned that the comma before the "and" is unnecessary, which is incorrect". 

Thanks for adding another example.:vs_laugh:


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## supers05

Windows defaulted to"hybrid" sleep mode now. It's a mix between sleep and hibernate. It basically runs the same procedure as a hibernate, but sleeps instead when done. After a few hours, (configurable) if it's still sleeping, it hibernates. Helps with sudden power loss. 

Personally, my computers run all the time. If they are idling, they will sleep automatically. (specifically configured to my habits.) I do shut it down once in a while, but I don't really notice it much. My cold boot is less then 30 sec. My warm boot is roughly 5 -10 sec. I use quality SSDs for the primary drives. 

Cheers!


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## Guap0_

I always disable sleep & hibernate modes in every PC. They are a waste of time.


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## Mystriss

1. Buy SSD (suggest SanDisk Extreme Pro line)
2. Move OS to SSD
3. Turn off computer when not in use
4. Boot in 10 seconds when you want to use
5. Winning


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## Deja-vue

Simply create a Task to shut down the Computer automatically.
Step by Step instructions here:

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/schedule-shutdown-restarts-windows-7-task-schedular

I got several NAS here on my Network, no need to keep them running throughout the Night. They are even easier to shutdown and wake up on a Schedule.

My Main Workstation is also *turning on* automatically in the Morning.
That is done in the BIOS, not as simple as the Task Scheduler in Windows.

But if someone interested, I'll post some Screen shots.

:vs_cool:


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## carmusic

if you dont have an ssd, its time to get one, with standard hdd it was taking 2-3 minutes for starting and now it is less than 20 seconds!


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## Deja-vue

carmusic said:


> if you dont have an ssd, its time to get one, with standard hdd it was taking 2-3 minutes for starting and now it is less than 20 seconds!


Personally, I have been using SSD's since 2010. They were very expensive back then.
Since early 2016, I have been using SSD's for my Customers built machines exclusively.
Out of 300 or so Computers built, I had only one single Failure. Can't say that about Hard Drives. They are still working in my NAS's, unfortunately they don't make 8TB SSD's just yet.

Edit: I just found out that Samsung indeed makes a 8 TB SSD.
For a cool $6000.00 
:vs_whistle:


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## Bob Sanders

Mine has been running for something like 10 years now. I clean the fans and heat sinks about every 6 months, reboot maybe once a week... but that's about it. I have about 18Tb drive space, but the drives power down when not in use so they don't suck hardly any power when idle. I have triple monitors but they also power down when idle The fans do continue to run.... maybe one day they'll need replacing but so far they show no signs of trouble.


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## Bob Sanders

Deja-vue said:


> Personally, I have been using SSD's since 2010. They were very expensive back then.
> 
> :vs_whistle:



My main drive is SSD, but the others are standard and I have had one SSD failure. Fortunately I do disc imaging so I was back up and running about 15 minutes after I replaced the ssd, but they sure do fail, and I find they don't give you anywhere NEAR as much notice as a standard drive does either. One minute they're working.... next minute they're gone!


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## mark sr

1.5 yrs ago I bought a pos HP when my Dell died. The specs stated the most everything was double what the Dell was [memory, ram, processor speed] but it was only half as fast. So my son built me a pc out of mostly spare parts. The specs state it's just slightly slower than the HP but in reality it's maybe 5 times as fast. Anyway the SSD on it went out [it would freeze up multiple times an hour for a minute or so] So he had me order a WD Blue SSD which he put in and fixed that issue. I do like how much faster SSD starts up compared to the regular hard drive.


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## Mystriss

SSD's are typically only good for 5 years or so because the memory wears out. 

That said, the SanDisc Extreme Pro's have a 10 year warranty on them. I've been using mine since 2013 and it's still going strong. I have a couple 2TB Western Digital Black's (standard 3.5in HDDs) that I put a lot of my programs on, and I run Windows cache and all the like downloads, pictures, my documents, etc., on that both to cut down on using the SSD as much and also to "save my work" for when the SSD ultimately dies on me (also means that if windows poops out and I have to reinstall it, I still have all my files/pictures.)

We still have to kind of pick one:
If you want boot speed = SSD, there is no comparison.
If you want rock steady reliability = WD Black HDD, really no comparison there either.


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## Guap0_

Mystriss wrote


> 1. Buy SSD (suggest SanDisk Extreme Pro line)
> 2. Move OS to SSD
> 3. Turn off computer when not in use
> 4. Boot in 10 seconds when you want to use
> 5. Winning


There are so many disadvantages to that. SSD costs way more that SATA. So what if the PC boots in 10 seconds? Why should I have to reconnect to the 5 IRC servers & 10 chatrooms not to mention having to reconnect to this forum along with the other 15 or 20 web sites that I use regularly? That makes no sense at all. 


BTW, what happened to the OP if this thread? He doesn't post anymore.


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## 3onthetree

SeniorSitizen said:


> I think I have windows something. At least there is 4 window panes in a frame lookin thing in lower left corner.


Proof someone somewhere took the class "Logo Marketing 101":biggrin2:


This is a classic "best of" thread - good info, good humor, a couple tangents gone too far . . . .

I'll give this lil' nugget to the OP that if you have a webcam (or built-in cam on your laptop) it is already compromised from closing out one of these many ads in this forum. If you leave your PC on some guy in far-off Scamistan is sitting on his futon watching you walk around in your scibbies.


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## Bob Sanders

Mystriss said:


> 1. Buy SSD (suggest SanDisk Extreme Pro line)
> 2. Move OS to SSD
> 3. Turn off computer when not in use
> 4. Boot in 10 seconds when you want to use
> 5. Winning


It depends on what you use you machine for.


Mine is used as a central server for streaming movies, music, pics, documents, etc. to the various tv's and AVR's in the house. For that reason it never gets turned off. As stated, I haven't really turned mine off for probably the last 10 years. There really isn't a need to turn them off. They can power down to an idle on their own. The only real reason I can think of to actually turn them completely off is that you're trying to save some additional pennies on the electric bill.


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## user_12345a

Sleep works just fine. No need to invest in SSDs to get fast bootup after shutdown.

Sleep keeps just the ram active and shuts down the rest of the machine.

Electricity is too damn expensive in ontario to leave desktop machines idling.


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## Mystriss

Guap0_ said:


> Mystriss wrote
> 
> There are so many disadvantages to that. SSD costs way more that SATA. So what if the PC boots in 10 seconds? Why should I have to reconnect to the 5 IRC servers & 10 chatrooms not to mention having to reconnect to this forum along with the other 15 or 20 web sites that I use regularly? That makes no sense at all.
> 
> BTW, what happened to the OP if this thread? He doesn't post anymore.


There are some disadvantages, they are a bit more expensive, limited size (for those who don't buy a traditional HDD for storage,) and how long they last.

Advantage wise, they're massively faster, use a lot less energy, no moving parts so they are more durable than HDD's, and they handle bumps, shakes, and drops far better, they're noiseless, and they're far smaller for HTPC's.

As for turning off the PC advantages, hacking is a big one, energy use is a minimal advantage, reboots to clear your cache and unbork windows memory leaks is another. 

So it's kind of a; if want those advantages (without not 3-5 minute boot times) { SSD }


-----

As an educational note, we refer to hard drive types as HDD or SSD (there's some others too) 

"SATA" (serial AT attachment) is actually the type of power & data cable the drives use - not really the drive type itself. SSD's use SATA too. HDDs used to have IDE (ribbon cable) interfaces for data and 4pin molex for power - which is why HDD's today will often say "SATA" on them; denoting that you have to have a SATA connections on your motherboard and power supply.

Here's an outdated IDE interface, you'll almost never see these on hard drives anymore:









They typically come separate, but for simplicity here's a SATA data (the narrower one) and power (the wider one) combo cable for comparison. SATA is the current standard, I don't see it going anywhere for a long while:









HDD (hard disk drive) naming comes from way back when the drives had "hard" rigid magnetic discs mounted inside the drive casing. For a while we tried calling them "fixed disks" since they weren't portable, but HDD acronym stuck so that's what we use.

SSD (solid state drive) naming comes about because they don't have any discs or moving parts - aka they are a "solid" block. You'll often see SSD's noting they are SATA interface, they can also say they are mSATA (micro SATA), M.2 (basically micro SATA 2.0), NVMe (Intels original interface), u.2 (Intels second generation interface,) PCIe (add-on card,) and there's a couple very specific ones for Apple and Samsung/Linux. 

M.2 is very likely to be the replacement for SATA as far as "primary" hard drives go. Most of the newest motherboards include an M.2 SSD slot(s) like this:













Ah here's a Linus video that explains it (start at 1:52 because he rambles) https://youtu.be/ItMY3WHHowQ?t=114


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## Guap0_

Mystriss, you didn't have to go through all that. I certainly know what a ribbon cable & SATA connections look like. I've done data recovery, blah blah blah. The revived topic from last year was shutdown or don't shutdown. I'm not going to reconnect to all those servers each time that I return to computer. That's insane. 


As for hacking, been there done that. I think my network is secure. If you can compromise it, please do. Tell me what I missed.


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## Deja-vue

I must chip in that I (mostly, not all) disagree with the last 6-7 posts.
SSD is here to stay. Hard Drive technology is a thing of the past. Why don't Folks realize it. The new M.2 Drives are screaming. Absolutely no comparison.
But there are always Folks who have a problem with the new Tech. The old "if it aint broke, don't fix it", I'm getting so tired of this.

My oldest SSD has over 100TB written to it, and the health is just like Day one.
There are Utilities like SSDLife pro or the like.
As a "common sense" Computer User, you always have Backup. Up and running in less than an hour. I do. Some do.
90% of my Customers do not. Some actually do, most never check it.
SMH.
:sad:


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## Guap0_

What does HD technology have to do with leaving a PC running 24/7? Nothing.


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## Mystriss

Guap0_ said:


> What does HD technology have to do with leaving a PC running 24/7? Nothing.



It does because the complaint was about how long it took to boot up the system "in the morning" or whatever.


An SSD gives a 10 second boot, at which point it's basically pointless to leave a PC on (aside from the 'comfort-esk' argument of leaving programs running while you're away from keyboard.)


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## Mystriss

Deja-vue said:


> I must chip in that I (mostly, not all) disagree with the last 6-7 posts.
> SSD is here to stay. Hard Drive technology is a thing of the past. Why don't Folks realize it. The new M.2 Drives are screaming. Absolutely no comparison.
> But there are always Folks who have a problem with the new Tech. The old "if it aint broke, don't fix it", I'm getting so tired of this.
> 
> My oldest SSD has over 100TB written to it, and the health is just like Day one.
> There are Utilities like SSDLife pro or the like.
> As a "common sense" Computer User, you always have Backup. Up and running in less than an hour. I do. Some do.
> 90% of my Customers do not. Some actually do, most never check it.
> SMH.
> :sad:



I think you mis-typed, or at least if you bought a $10k+ Nimbus 100TB SSD then damn straight it better be just like day one considering it was just released in March 2018... :vs_laugh:

In any event, I'm not sure traditional platter HDD's are going away any time soon, the reliability factor on them is untouchable right now. I suspect us enthusiasts are going to hybrid (SSD boot and traditional HDD storage) for a long time. 




That said, they just unveiled Quantum One yesterday - &@%&^%$ awesome. Quantum state shifting is going to be a revolution in speed and computing power that will easily blow everything we know, including HDDs and SSDs, completely out of the water. However, quantum computers don't do binary, they operate on a far more complex system... lets say, "exist"/"not exist"/"here"/"there"/"today"/"yesterday" vs our rather basic current binary system of "1"/"0" (basically on/off,) so that's holding it back from any mainstream deployment... it's actually more correct to say that all of our existing software (from OS to video game) is holding quantum computer deployment back. Right now they're room sized systems, but I'm super excited to see what's next on that front.


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## Guap0_

> It does because the complaint was about how long it took to boot up the system "in the morning" or whatever.


That wasn't my complaint. My compliant is the time that it takes to reestablish connections.


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## Mystriss

Guap0_ said:


> That wasn't my complaint. My compliant is the time that it takes to reestablish connections.



You changed your user name? (The OP of the thread is Gregsoldtruck79)




If you don't want to reestablish connections then yeah, you either leave it on or do the startonload() hack previously mentioned. (Or for internet sites, with Firefox if you leave the window open when you shut down it'll [usually] save all your open tabs for you.)


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## Guap0_

> You changed your user name? (The OP of the thread is Gregsoldtruck79)


What made you think that? I'm not Greg & never was. All if the regulars here know that.


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## BrownEyedGuy

Mystriss said:


> I think you mis-typed, or at least if you bought a $10k+ Nimbus 100TB SSD then damn straight it better be just like day one considering it was just released in March 2018... :vs_laugh:


Have I told you lately that I love you? :vs_love:


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## Mystriss

BrownEyedGuy said:


> Have I told you lately that I love you? :vs_love:
> 
> 
> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:



No, but my husband might take issue :wink2:


That said, I'm not going to doubt too much, I mean, a lot of my geeky friends have put a ton of money into their rigs. I've dumped over $10k into mine myself. I could easily see YouTuber's dropping that much on an SSD, huge storage and processing speed could make it worth it if their channel monitization was paying out. (I know YouTuber's who are buying houses off what they make from sword education videos. The internet is really amazing!)


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## BrownEyedGuy

Mystriss said:


> No, but my husband might take issue :wink2:


Well yeah....that is the obvious downside....he could turn me into a pretzel with nothing more than his thumb...plus...I probably couldn't even outrun him while he was sleeping. 

But damn...you know which end of the barrel goes boom-boom, ya pack heat on a regular basis, play with wood, dabble in electronics, and have a workstation that rivals even my own. What's not to love? :vs_cool:


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## Mystriss

BrownEyedGuy said:


> Well yeah....that is the obvious downside....he could turn me into a pretzel with nothing more than his thumb...plus...I probably couldn't even outrun him while he was sleeping.
> 
> But damn...you know which end of the barrel goes boom-boom, ya pack heat on a regular basis, play with wood, dabble in electronics, and have a workstation that rivals even my own. What's not to love? :vs_cool:



The expenses? :vs_laugh:


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## BrownEyedGuy

Mystriss said:


> The expenses? :vs_laugh:


Nah....It's the fact I'd have to travel through that liberal bastion of Canada to get there......I'd never survive the trip.

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## Deja-vue

> I think you mis-typed, or at least if you bought a $10k+ Nimbus 100TB SSD then damn straight it better be just like day one considering it was just released in March 2018...


Sorry, you probably misunderstood.
The Software reads all "read-writes" over the span of the Life of the SSD.
Every time you install a program, create a Document, copy a movie, many Gigabytes are written and later on removed.


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## Deja-vue

Btw, The Nimbus 100TB is over $50K.
:vs_cool:


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## BrownEyedGuy

Deja-vue said:


> I must chip in that I (mostly, not all) disagree with the last 6-7 posts.
> SSD is here to stay. Hard Drive technology is a thing of the past. Why don't Folks realize it. The new M.2 Drives are screaming. Absolutely no comparison.
> But there are always Folks who have a problem with the new Tech. The old "if it aint broke, don't fix it", I'm getting so tired of this.


OK, going back to this topic....If you understood how non-volatile memory works, you'd understand why there is concern about lifespan versus the number of write cycles.

To write (or erase) a cell, you literally blow a hole through a physical insulator with an electron. After you make enough holes in an insulator, it is no longer an insulator. It's a screen door on a submarine. :biggrin2:

They are coming up with ways for the cells to be self-repairing, but I'm not sure how common that is yet.


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## Deja-vue

BrownEyedGuy said:


> OK, going back to this topic....If you understood how non-volatile memory works, you'd understand why there is concern about lifespan versus the number of write cycles.
> 
> To write (or erase) a cell, you literally blow a hole through a physical insulator with an electron. After you make enough holes in an insulator, it is no longer an insulator. It's a screen door on a submarine. :biggrin2:
> 
> They are coming up with ways for the cells to be self-repairing, but I'm not sure how common that is yet.


As I said earlier:



> Out of 300 or so Computers built, I had only one single Failure. Can't say that about Hard Drives. They are still working in my NAS's,


Traditional Storage Devices ( Hard Drives) are on the way out. In 2018, I probably gotten 10-12 Hard Drives in for File recovery, half of them I had to send over to Colleges with a Clean-Room for disassembly.

SSD's are faster, create less Heat, in Laptop's they don't use much Battery,
and IMHO they are more robust.
(Try dropping a Hard Drive from 3 feet onto a Concrete Floor.)
Most of all, Prices have come down to the point that I can install them now in all my new Builds.
I sold probably 30-40 Computers in 2018, all have SSD's in them, no Failure.
Like I said, I had one failure in 2015 or so.
I am using Samsung and Crucial. They are made in the same Factories.


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## Mystriss

$50k?!? Eff that, I'll stick with my 500GB SSD LOL 

Testing figures an SSD is good for somewhere around 100-200TB worth of writes. (Though some of the higher quality [Pro] models can hit 2PB - https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead. A newer test done in Germany 2016 actually got 9.1PB out of a Samsung 850 Pro.) 

Of course, you don't want to "plan" for that kind of lasting power. Especially not if you've got important data (pictures, documents, etc.)


Cost might be the main thing that keeps platter HDD's around. I just don't see folks being ready to jump into SSD's yet. Give it a decade heh


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## BrownEyedGuy

Deja-vue said:


> Traditional Storage Devices ( Hard Drives) are on the way out. In 2018, I probably gotten 10-12 Hard Drives in for File recovery, half of them I had to send over to Colleges with a Clean-Room for disassembly.


Well the difference is that most HDD failures are caused by software errors, not hardware failure (unless the drive is dropped). I prefer to blame Bill Gates, even though he isn't actually responsible. :vs_laugh:

When high write cycles are involved, magnetic is still more reliable than solid state. But as I said, as solid state begins perfecting the self-repairing cells, they become more reliable.


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## Guap0_

You can argue 24/7 as to which drive is better but no one has mentioned the most important thing & that's backups. Your data should be in 2 other places besides your main computer no matter if you shut down or not.


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## Mystriss

That's a good point Guap0.


I have a loose drive I keep all my documents and pictures on (which I should admittedly update more often,) plus a dedicated drive in my system that I keep it all on - then I have a drive fully dedicated to image files for Windows farts.


I'm looking into getting a network drive as well. It'll be a backup and the kids and husband will have access to all our pictures and the on-line music and movie collections.


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## Guap0_

> I'm looking into getting a network drive as well. It'll be a backup and the kids and husband will have access to all our pictures and the on-line music and movie collections.


All that's good but let's take it a step further. Both of us are using on site backups. We really should have an off site backup as well. I'm not a fan of the cloud because cloud users can't adjust it's security. One could keep a hard drive in a safe deposit box, at a friend's house or even setup an FTP server at a friend's house. I do the next best thing. That's keeping a drive in a fire resistant strong box.


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## SPS-1

My PC runs 24/7.


Runs full scan every night, and backups frequently too (commonly backup each night, but have it set to once per week right now). Frequently, I will also listen to audio podcasts while in bed at night. 


Operating system and commonly used files and programs are on SSD. Files less commonly used, and backups are on HDD. Once per week, everything gets backed up to a second computer, and every 6 months everything gets backed up to a portable drive and taken to a family member's house. 


I did recently replace the hard drive. It was 9 years old and I was getting enough faults to make me nervous.


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## Mystriss

Guap0_ said:


> All that's good but let's take it a step further. Both of us are using on site backups. We really should have an off site backup as well. I'm not a fan of the cloud because cloud users can't adjust it's security. One could keep a hard drive in a safe deposit box, at a friend's house or even setup an FTP server at a friend's house. I do the next best thing. That's keeping a drive in a fire resistant strong box.



I guess it depends on how you define "on site" - I keep my drive in the fire rated gun safe in the detached shop (which is why it's not as updated as it should be HA)




I'm not keen on the cloud either. I do throw "really important" files onto my server's (I did web development for a while and I grew so fond of hosting my own content that I kept em.)


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## Guap0_

On site is when the backup is in the same place as the computer.


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## Mystriss

Right. 

Both my servers are "off site" - IIRC they're located in California and Texas.

I could make a good argument that the gun safe is "off site" because the shop is far enough from the house that it's unlikely to get caught in a house fire before the volunteer fire department gets across the road to put it out


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## Guap0_

I'm not against a gun safe. That's good.


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## That Guy

my deskstop 'shuts down' after 30 min no activity... monitors same..

I hit a key, move my mouse, the computer is usable with in 30 seconds.

when i say shuts down, its off... not even the cpu fan is spinning.. it is 'off'


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## Guap0_

> I hit a key, move my mouse, the computer is usable with in 30 seconds.


If you only have to move the mouse, it didn't shut down. It went to sleep or it went in to hibernation. If you go into the control panel & power options, you can stop that from happening.


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## user_12345a

BrownEyedGuy said:


> Well the difference is that most HDD failures are caused by software errors, not hardware failure (unless the drive is dropped). I prefer to blame Bill Gates, even though he isn't actually responsible. :vs_laugh:
> 
> When high write cycles are involved, magnetic is still more reliable than solid state. But as I said, as solid state begins perfecting the self-repairing cells, they become more reliable.


Hard drive failure by definition is a hardware failure.

Sectors messed up by writing errors can be fixed with disk scan utilities. Worst case, a low level format is required.


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## ajaye

Hey there,

I'm not going to chug through, a lot of pages, but will give you my IMHO as a ServiceDesk tech..

I sometimes leave it on IF it is doing some long task, such as converting videos. But I have it set to sleep at about the 5 hour mark.

I've lost track of people leaving there machines on by just locking it, then having problems..

I would always advise the following (to my clients)

mon-fri, end of day, put it to sleep, boots up faster
friday end of day, power down

If your not using the LT/DT at home, power it down







Gregsoldtruck79 said:


> I have read pros and cons for both, but still not convinced which is best.
> 
> Just something about my PC getting rebooted every morning make's me think I will be more susceptible to, awaiting "upgrades" from WIN 10 that I don't want.
> 
> So which one should it be, leave the desktop PC on all night or turn it off ?


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## supers05

ajaye said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I'm not going to chug through, a lot of pages, but will give you my IMHO as a ServiceDesk tech..
> 
> I sometimes leave it on IF it is doing some long task, such as converting videos. But I have it set to sleep at about the 5 hour mark.
> 
> I've lost track of people leaving there machines on by just locking it, then having problems..
> 
> I would always advise the following (to my clients)
> 
> mon-fri, end of day, put it to sleep, boots up faster
> friday end of day, power down
> 
> If your not using the LT/DT at home, power it down


You do realize the age of the thread? It was already revived after a year of hibernation once. 

Cheers!


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## HandyAndyInNC

If you don't like that,Load a different Operating System than Windows. There are plenty out there that you may use.


Some folks are so indecisive. Do something and see what happens.


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## supers05

HandyAndyInNC said:


> If you don't like that,Load a different Operating System than Windows. There are plenty out there that you may use.
> 
> 
> Some folks are so indecisive. Do something and see what happens.


How does that help anyone in this thread? 

Cheers!


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## ajaye

................


supers05 said:


> You do realize the age of the thread? It was already revived after a year of hibernation once.
> 
> Cheers!


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## ajaye

If a thread is on the first page of a sub forum and I DONT have to go hunting for it, I AM going to reply. 

The point is forum questions are often searched on line and GOOGLE will refer to many a thread, I in fact have had issues resolved by forums I'm not even a member of and of dates older than time itself.

If there is an issue with old threads then they should be locked or closed, either way that is something you should really take up with a moderator and not myself

Thanks


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## ajaye

sorry for the double post


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## supers05

ajaye said:


> If a thread is on the first page of a sub forum and I DONT have to go hunting for it, I AM going to reply.
> 
> The point is forum questions are often searched on line and GOOGLE will refer to many a thread, I in fact have had issues resolved by forums I'm not even a member of and of dates older than time itself.
> 
> If there is an issue with old threads then they should be locked or closed, either way that is something you should really take up with a moderator and not myself
> 
> Thanks


Sort the page by date. 

Cheers!


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## jpenney

Leave it on.


Pros: 

no bootup
constant availability (when you have a thought at 3 am)
establish the pc as an appliance rather than as a toy (in the minds of the household)


Cons:
None really because the pc has a power saver mode where it shuts things down (disk, monitor, network card) when they're not active.


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