# Shimming toilet??



## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Just installed a dual flush American Standard there is a slight gap between the front of the bowl and the floor (2 mm max). The largest gap is right at the front and it narrows down as you move around each side and the bowl contacts the floor about 4 -5 inches back around both sides from front center, and sits solid all the way around the back.

With the closet bolts tight, the toilet does not move. There's no rocking front to back or side to side.

What I'm worried about is will it eventually rock. If I put too much weight on the front (getting on and off), will it put too much force on closet bolts and come loose and then leak or perhaps break the flange?

Or, is 1-2 mm around the front of the bowl something that needs to be worried about?

Some advice I've received is to leave it alone. It's not leaking or rocking (no toilet movement) and if I want to make sure the closet bolts don't work loose, then double nut them. If the toilet is tight to the floor around the flange, and the flange is tight to the floor with the flange screws, it should not rock front to backor have any future issues.

Some other advice is to put a couple plastic shims under the front (hard to find a plastic shim 1-2 mm in thickness), or if the shims are too thick, use a penny where needed (put some silicone on the bottom of the shim/penny and slide under toilt just until snug (silicone will hold the shim in place). If just pushed under until nice and snug, they are telling me I shouldn't have to worry about the wax seal breaking; if I push too far under and actually lift the toilet a hair, then I'd have to redo the wax seal.

I've also been told not to shim the front, but shim the back so the front is on the floor. The problem with this is that if I shim the front, only about the front 4-5 inches of the bowl need to be shimmed whereas if I shim the back, I need to shim bascially all around the toilet except for the front 4-5 inches. Plus, since the "pivot" point of any future rocking would be so close to the front (basically 4-5 inches back from the front of the bowl), the 1-2mm space in the front would turn into a 1/4 inch at the very back of the toilet. Is shimming the front (as long as it has multiple shims around the front) really a no-no?

Right now there's no leaks and no movement, but I want to sleep at night, so some advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## orange (Feb 19, 2008)

I did some googling when I saw your post and that no one has responded.

I found this recommended on another site. (Johnny shim)
http://www.ezshim.com/products/index.html

Note; I have never used the product... just responding with something I found.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Sep 18, 2011)

You'll be fine shimming in the front of the toilet.
I would use this type of shim. 
Push them under the edge of the toilet as far as you can, mark the extra sticking out with a pen then cut off the un-needed part.
After you caulk in the bottom of the toilet they will never move.


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## Lightfoot (Jan 16, 2011)

I agree with the Albacore dude.
1/16 is about what you've got. I'd shim it, trim it, caulk it, and forget about it.:thumbsup:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Sep 18, 2011)

Lightfoot said:


> I agree with the Albacore dude.
> 1/16 is about what you've got. I'd shim it, trim it, caulk it, and forget about it.:thumbsup:


Thats because you are a brilliant man ! :thumbup:


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## Lightfoot (Jan 16, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Thats because you are a brilliant man ! :thumbup:


why, thank you Albacore dude!
I might add, that you're a great judge of character:laughing:


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

Thanks guys.

I actually have those plastic toilet shims at home and unfortunately, they are too thick even at the narrow end. They only go under the bowl about one or two of those little grooves before they'd be forcing the bowl upwards. Even the narrow end, those are 2-3 mm thick. My space is 2 mms max.

I'll recheck them tonight to make sure, but I think I need a shim that's even thinner than these.

I saw some of the EZ-shims online but no one in my city carries them. I really don't want to wait 2-3 weeks just to get some shims through the mail.


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## Lightfoot (Jan 16, 2011)

dpach said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I actually have those plastic toilet shims at home and unfortunately, they are too thick even at the narrow end. They only go under the bowl about one or two of those little grooves before they'd be forcing the bowl upwards. Even the narrow end, those are 2-3 mm thick. My space is 2 mms max.
> 
> ...


do ya have a small piece of plastic backsplash material or vinyl siding you could cut? That would be about the right thickness. Honestly, i don't think it will be a problem (that small of a gap), but if you're like me-you worry too much and just want it perfect.


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## dpach (May 12, 2009)

OK, found some thinner toilet shims. Got home and here's a few pics. As you can see, even the cardboard the shims came in doesn't go very far back before its tight. The shims only to under the very peak of the bowl's nose, and they go under about a 3/8ths of an inch up the shim.

Am I over-worrying about this or should I try and cut 3/8th inch long off the shim tips and gently push them under?


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

If it doesn't move, i'd just caulk the darn thing and let the caulking setup before you use it. That will hold it.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Sep 18, 2011)

Alan said:


> If it doesn't move, i'd just caulk the darn thing and let the caulking setup before you use it. That will hold it.


Im with Alan.
I wouldnt worry about it.


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## Dave Holland (Mar 30, 2012)

*Leveling New Toilet*

I saw a the thread regarding Johnny Shims. I was able to order them directly from the ezshim website on their where to buy page.

I'm hooked!

:thumbsup:


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## TheEplumber (Jul 20, 2010)

Dave Holland said:


> I saw a the thread regarding Johnny Shims. I was able to order them directly from the ezshim website on their where to buy page.
> 
> I'm hooked!
> 
> :thumbsup:


I would have just shoved a dime under there, caulked it and called it good. :thumbsup:


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## Roxerroneous (Oct 16, 2011)

TheEplumber said:


> I would have just shoved a dime under there, caulked it and called it good. :thumbsup:


I was under the impression that you aren't supposed to caulk a toilet so you will know there's a leak. Do you caulk around the entire base or maybe just part? Thanks.


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## Jay 78 (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow, old thread. I agree that simply caulking it would have been fine.



Roxerroneous said:


> I was under the impression that you aren't supposed to caulk a toilet so you will know there's a leak. Do you caulk around the entire base or maybe just part? Thanks.


I don't know exactly what the pros do, but I left a few inches uncaulked at the back that can't be seen.


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## hammerlane (Oct 6, 2011)

Jay 78 said:


> I don't know exactly what the pros do, but I left a few inches uncaulked at the back that can't be seen.


I agree. leave the rear of the toilet uncaulked.


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## Dave Holland (Mar 30, 2012)

*Shimming Toilet*

I don't recommend coins to shim a toilet. Toilets are made of porcelain china - so they _can_ crack. And just setting a toilet directly onto the floor is fine - as long as your floor isn't made of tile, is level and is the correct height. If a tile floor comes into contact with the porcelain, damage to the tile floor and/or toilet can result. Personally, I like the Johnny Shims.


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

Dave Holland said:


> And just setting a toilet directly onto the floor is fine - as long as your floor isn't made of tile




What?! :huh:


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## AllanJ (Nov 24, 2007)

It should have been test fitted without the wax ring and before the bolts are tightened. Any rocking should have been corrected then. Do not expect the bolts to prevent or correct rocking, that will break something instead


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## tribe_fan (May 18, 2006)

Things I have used for shims -

Old Credit Cards
Plastic Business cards
A piece of self stick floor tile - it can be shaved or peeled.


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## M3 Pete (May 10, 2011)

Alan said:


> What?! :huh:


 I hope he's wrong, or my newly tiled bathroom is doomed! :laughing:


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## Alan (Apr 12, 2006)

M3 Pete said:


> I hope he's wrong, or my newly tiled bathroom is doomed! :laughing:


I've pulled countless dozens of toilets 20+ years old off of tile that don't have damaged porcelain.


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## Dave Holland (Mar 30, 2012)

*Shimming Toilet & Tile Floors*

I'm simply saying - so far Johnny Shims are the best product I've seen for toilet installations. I work for a property management company with over 3,000 unique properties; apartment buildings, condos, private homes and commercial.

Porcelain toilet coming into direct contact with porcelain tile, isn't really ideal in my opinion. Doesn't mean it can't be done, or that it's guaranteed going to crack. All the plumbers I know, simply throw away those squishy little square shims that have been around for so long, because they compress and can work their way out.


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