# Electrical Code in Chicago!?!



## angus242

moose186 said:


> Is there any place that summarizes Chicago Electrical Code in plain English?


Well it certainly WON'T be home crap-hole!

Your best bet on electrical is always your licensed electrician. I am NOT an electrician (which is why I hire one) but I believe all of Cook County code is for conduit....not romex.


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## CowboyAndy

angus242 said:


> Well it certainly WON'T be home crap-hole!
> 
> Your best bet on electrical is always your licensed electrician. I am NOT an electrician (which is why I hire one) but I believe all of Cook County code is for conduit....not romex.


That's my understanding too, is that romex is not allowed at all... EVERYTHING must be in pipe.


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## Termite

I understand that to be the case as well. My opinion of why you have to run conduit and can't pull NM wire....Union influence.


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## BigJimmy

thekctermite said:


> My opinion of why you have to run conduit and can't pull NM wire....Union influence.


True!

Don't, do NOT listen to the people at Home Depot for electrical advice. As most others suggested, NM cable is NOT allowed in the city. I do not know how far out of the city this continues to apply but I live just outside and my municipality follows the same "conduit" rules.

Getting to the BX issue, both MC cable and Greenfield (FMC) are allowed without length restriction (for residential, anyway) when being fished into walls/ceilings for remodel work. If you strip away the entire wall/c'lg surface then an inspector would tend to want conduit installed if practical.

Finally, the choice to use 2/c vs. 3/c NM cable is purely based on application. And I have to agree that _if you could use it_, 14/2 would be fine for your application.

Where exactly do you live? A lot of people who move to the suburbs of Chicago say "I live in Chicago." While this is fine, I'd just want to make sure that you are in fact bound to the city's amendments.

Feel free to PM me if you have further Chicago-code questions (or rants!).

Jimmy


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## JohnnyM

BigJimmy and all-

From experience, any idea on what it should cost on average for install of recessed lighting in a Chicago 2-flat kitchen, living room? Can you price it per can/light?

Thanks.


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## BigJimmy

To be honest, I do all of my own work so I don't know what a reasonable cost would be (outside of materials). Your best bet is to call in some pro's and have them quote the job. There are a lot of things that can influence the pricing and they'll need to see the job site first hand in order to price it accurately and as the old rule goes, get at least 3 quotes. BTW, I'd recommend someone that is licensed and can readily prove it.

If you get some prices, feel free to email me. I do have several electrician friends in the city that do side work. They could likely tell me if your quotes are good.

TTFN,
-J


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## toocheaptohire

Moose - to clarify (as I, non-electrician but former city of Chicagoan, understand), you're allowed only up to 3 feet of flexible conduit from a switch or outlet, but after 3 feet, flexible conduit has to connect to rigid metal conduit which means all kinds of fun learning how to bend pipe. I agree with rest of posters that best bet is pro electrician (and probably also drywallers since major jobs typically mean ripping out walls to get rigid pipe installed). Moved from Chicago to Minnesota 2 years ago and very happy to leave behind wacko construction codes (and pipe bender).


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## goose134

For the record much of the Chicago code reads exactly like the NEC. The big differences are in raceways, conduit fill and plenum ceilings. You are allowed 6 feet of whips (flexible metal conduit.) Jimmy is correct that the length restriction is removed for fishing existing walls. If you fish greenfield (empty BX) you MUST pull a grounding conductor if your length exceeds six feet. Other post concerning 3 feet of exposed flex to conduit was accurate as well.


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## Scuba_Dave

So fish the walls 1st & have inspected
Then rip the walls down to remodel :laughing:


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## goose134

> So fish the walls 1st & have inspected
> Then rip the walls down to remodel :laughing:


That's one way to do it:wink:

One thing I forgot to mention: the only thing romex is allowed to do in the city is supply temporary power and lighting. It does not belong in conduit. Any other specifics, I will be happy to try and field. There is much better advice here ( most of the time) than in the home depot.


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## rgsgww

goose134 said:


> you MUST pull a grounding conductor if your length exceeds six feet.



I think this applies to the nec as well for flex.

I like conduit and all, but I think Chicago's code is really strict. And from old installs, you can see that they have adopted pipe and flex for a very long time.


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## InPhase277

rgsgww said:


> I think this applies to the nec as well for flex.
> 
> I like conduit and all, but I think Chicago's code is really strict. And from old installs, you can see that they have adopted pipe and flex for a very long time.


Yeah, something to do with Mrs. O'Leary's cow...


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## toocheaptohire

more like something to do with Al Capone.....


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## goose134

Stop it. You're killing me.


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## theatretch85

Personally I have intent on wiring at least part of my house in conduit when I replace the main panel. I like the ability to be able to add to it down the road and the fact that I don't need to run multiple pieces of romex down the same path when a few correctly calculated runs of conduit will do just fine. I already have the pipe benders for 1/2" and 3/4" that I have used quite a bit in the past.


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## Gigs

theatretch85 said:


> Personally I have intent on wiring at least part of my house in conduit when I replace the main panel. I like the ability to be able to add to it down the road and the fact that I don't need to run multiple pieces of romex down the same path when a few correctly calculated runs of conduit will do just fine. I already have the pipe benders for 1/2" and 3/4" that I have used quite a bit in the past.


Jamie did his that way. Seems like a lot of work to me.


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## BigJimmy

theatretch85 said:


> I like the ability to be able to add to it down the road and the fact that I don't need to run multiple pieces of romex down the same path when a few correctly calculated runs of conduit will do just fine.


Goose-Nice to see you again!

This is exactly what I did in my house in anticipation of future remodelling of the upstairs. When I installed an HVAC unit in the attic, I located a wall space in which I ran the refrigerant and hot water lines. Instead of running a single raceway from the basement to the attic, I installed a rack of 4x3/4" EMT (the first of which I needed for the HVAC equipment, the latter of which were spare). These have been very handy as I can add circuits as I remodel and rewire the second floor.

In the attic, I ran a 2x3/4" EMT "backbone" from front to rear with 4-11's every 10 ft. Again, very handy as I continue to rewire and recircuit the upstairs.


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## EAF4Square

*Potentially buying a 4square in Oak Park*

... new here, hello! We are considering a purchase of an 4 square in Oak Park and would like some advice/input given the topic here. We've done renovations before but never a full rewire. This house needs it, the wiring is probably 1920's era knob & tube and if I had to guess I'd say it was put through the original gas lighting lines based on where the fixtures are on the walls. We've lived with K&T before, and it was a pain with blown fuses and such, so I'd like to just get this done and over with first. We are just starting purchase negotiations - what do you think the price point would be to rewire it? It's a 2 floor four square + unf. basement, 4bd, 1.5 bath. It will need a new circuit breaker and a new connection to the main electric lines - obviously we can't do that ourselves. What we are thinking is trying to a hire a journeyman to do that work as well as "direct" us in the fishing of the conduit and wires - is this possible, and would it save us some dollars? I assume the new connection will run us about $2000, the new box $1500, and the other materials (wire, etc) about $500... the journeymans time and some work another $3000. That brings me to $7000 for the project - I would assume by the time we are done and have permits/instpections another $500 and about 6 weeks worth of effort on our behalf. Does this sound like an achievable plan?? Is that cost estimate too low? How messed up are our walls going to be from holes? We have to gut the kitchens & baths anyways, so I don't care, I am just curious...
Thanks for any input.

Any input, thoughts appreciated.


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## lpf138

to goose134: I could be misinformed, but another thing I've heard around the campfire is about your conduit fill. I hear that no matter WHAT size conduit you use, there's a maximum of only 9 conductors permitted. Meaning you could use a 1" stick of EMT and still only be allowed 9 14 AWG conductors. If so, does that count the neutral's as well? 2 circuits, 2 hot's 1 shared neutral=3 wires? Or only 2?


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## Speedy Petey

lpf138, Moose made this one and one post almost two YEARS ago. According to his profile his last activity was one minute after making that lone post.
I think it is safe to say he will not be back around to see your reply.

It is always best to check the dates of the posts you are replying to. :thumbsup:


Also, you were misinformed or misunderstand the 9 conductor idea with regard to conduit fill. 
The thing is with #14 thru #10 conductors you can have up to nine _current carrying_ conductors before you have to consider derating. 
There is absolutely NO "9-conductor" limit.

This is just a very basic explanation. There are many other factors involved with regard to derating and conduit fill in general.


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## goose134

lpf138 said:


> to goose134: I could be misinformed, but another thing I've heard around the campfire is about your conduit fill. I hear that no matter WHAT size conduit you use, there's a maximum of only 9 conductors permitted. Meaning you could use a 1" stick of EMT and still only be allowed 9 14 AWG conductors. If so, does that count the neutral's as well? 2 circuits, 2 hot's 1 shared neutral=3 wires? Or only 2?



I realize this is an ancient post, but Petey, you are incorrect. Chicago only allows 9 wires in a pipe. Current carrying or not. This is one of the big differences I spoke of so long ago.


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## Speedy Petey

Wow. OK, good to know. 
LPF did not mention his location so I just assumed he meant in general. 

Thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup:


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## lpf138

Sorry.. I found this thread through googling "What are the differences between the NEC and the Chicago code", so I assumed everybody was discussing that! Your right, I should have paid more attention. I understand what the NEC mandates about conduit fill.. And understand derating, and also box fill for that matter, just was curious about something that is now a confirmed difference. Possibly an odd one at that.. Anything else less that hasn't been covered? So far I know of basicallyipe everything you can, if you use greenfield be sure to include a ground, 9 wires maximum, anything else? Anything different from the NEC about smoke alarms?


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## goose134

I don't know about smoke alarms. I don't do much residential, but I don't think you need AFCI protection, if that's what you're wondering. 

Big differences are service masts must be rigid or IMC

Grounding Electrode conductor sizes also vary. NEC stops at 250 kcmil, I believe. Chicago continues the size calculations all the up. I've pulled a 600kcmil ground for a 4000 amp service before.

In commercial plenum ceilings, fixture whips must be flexible metallic TUBING. Otherwise known as plen-flex. Boxes must be stamped one piece variety with gasketed covers. Conduit fittings must be compression. Low voltage must also be piped. No plenum rated cable run in trays or rings.

These are the ones that leap to mind. I haven't worked outside Chicago in a while so I'd be pressed to remember more.


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## xxPaulCPxx

BTW, you don't need to pull the wire into a box to transition from flex to conduit. There are fittings that will allow you to attach flex directly to conduit.

No pipe bending needed either, you can just use flex for your corners instead with those fittings!


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## Michael Thomas

What it's worth, at least as regards residential construction in Chicago, conduit bending is becoming an increasingly rare skill, much of the residential new work I see is done with the branch circuits in pre-bent turns with lots and lots of connectors - it's not pretty, and IMO it's not a really good idea because each connection adds a bit of resistance when you pull the wires and has the potential for a sharp edge if the pipe isn't reamed properly after cutting, but it needs code and the Chicago inspectors pass it.


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## goose134

I'd be surprised if that were the case in new construction. A 90 is the easiest thing to do. Fittings and pre made bends are more expensive to do. More than likely what you're seeing is DIY with no desire to purchase a bender. Residential bending has never been about pretty, it is all about speed and efficiency. Pre-made 90's offer neither of these things.


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## frenchelectrican

Goose .,

Hate to step in your spot but I have a question to ask you real quick due you are famuair with Metro Le Chicago codés speaking of premade 90° bend on half inch EMT are they are at standard bending radius or short bend radius ??

due I have one bender that I can make very short bend { I don't use it often unless it kinda last resort to use it.}

Merci,Marc


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## goose134

Marc, the premade bends are almost identical to those you would make with a standard bender. I know of the bender you are referring to, the short radius bender. I've got conflicting information on whether or not the radius provided by the short radius bender is within code. I've never looked at NEC bending radius rules (if there are any). Nor have I measured the radius the bender provided.

That said, I've used them in a pinch and they can be a lifesaver when the time is right.


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## frenchelectrican

Goose.,

I am pretty much in the same boat with conflects with bending radius on the conduit on the Americian side however in France side the smallest bending radius we are allowed on 13 mm conduit { the same as half inch conduits } is 80mm { little over 3 inches }and that is pretty tight bend there but normally it will be 160mm radius { about 6 inches } 

Merci,Marc


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## Michael Thomas

Quick summary of the NEC bending rules:

http://www.anixter.com.my/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/71C22AE23FF1A43580256F24006EF67A/$file/B-1_7.pdf


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## 134

*Chicago Electric Code*

First things first you can't put Romex in BX, maybe you mean Greenfield. Secondly the code doesn't say you can't run more than 3 feet it says no more than 6 feet unless you have a ground wire in which case 14/3 would have to be used. The reason is BX and Greenfield can unspool. ROMEX is not allowed in CHICAGO at all. It gives off a poison gas if burnt, Chicago has the most strenuous code in the world. This is because of the history of fires in our great city. But for your project go ahead and use BX ( I prefer Greenfield ) it's perfectly OK'd by code. You can get a copy of the Chicago Code at the Library just get a Library card.


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## Speedy Petey

134, please note that this thread is well over two years old.

Also, you and I both know that fire is NOT the reason Chicago does not allow NM cable. It's FAR more political/union than that. 
The "poison gas" thing is simply propaganda scare tactics Chicago uses to perpetuate it's outdated and absurd NM cable codes.


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## rjniles

The orginal poster asked this question in 2008 and never returned again to look at the answers.


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## curiousB

Speedy Petey said:


> 134, please note that this thread is well over two years old.
> 
> Also, you and I both know that fire is NOT the reason Chicago does not allow NM cable. It's FAR more political/union than that.
> The "poison gas" thing is simply propaganda scare tactics Chicago uses to perpetuate it's outdated and absurd NM cable codes.


I live in Chicago. It's union/trade driven. It's actually getting worse, not better. Now you need fire sprinkler systems in new residential construction. Oh brother another $$$$$ waster with no valid cost benefit model. Between the two probably $10k in extra housing cost.


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## Speedy Petey

curiousB said:


> I live in Chicago. It's union/trade driven. It's actually getting worse, not better. Now you need fire sprinkler systems in new residential construction. Oh brother another $$$$$ waster with no valid cost benefit model. Between the two probably $10k in extra housing cost.


I think sprinkler systems in homes is an EXCELLENT idea. :thumbsup:
That said, it SHOULD NOT be code required.


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## d34dfish

I want to post a link for folks that find this thread in the future like I did, but apparently the system won't allow a link as a first post. This is just a placeholder so I can post the link.


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