# Visible seam on fixed hole in ceiling?



## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Recently, we had a slow water leak in our second floor bathroom, which damaged our first floor kitchen. In order to remove all of the wet drywall and make sure the replacement piece of drywall would be aligned with studs, I took out a 2.5' x 3' section of drywall.

I've since replaced the drywall and taped it using self adhesive mesh tape. I also used drywall mud to cover the seam with two coats of mud and sanded the entire section down. Quite frankly I thought I did a pretty good job, but this morning I noticed a discernible seam on at least one side of the square. 

When I ran my hand over the painted seam, I noticed a small hump. The mud I applied is only a few inches on either side of the seam. What do I need to do to fix this? I'm thinking I'll need to widen the seam area to blend everything better.

Also, I've been sanding the drywall mud after it's dried and it's making a huge mess. Is there another technique I can use for smoothing the mud out?

Thanks for your help.

Kelly


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

You just started the taping---you need to 'feather' that seam out a LOT. 

Get your 12 inch blade and widen the tape joint out to 12 inches--you may need to go to 24 to make it vanish.

Use a strong light -held in your hand to cast a shadow as you are sanding. ---Mike---


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

oh'mike said:


> You just started the taping---you need to 'feather' that seam out a LOT.
> 
> Get your 12 inch blade and widen the tape joint out to 12 inches--you may need to go to 24 to make it vanish.
> 
> Use a strong light -held in your hand to cast a shadow as you are sanding. ---Mike---


Thanks Mike. Looks like a trip to HD is in order.


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## mtzcowgirl (May 31, 2010)

yep mikes right we had the same problem in our kitchen and back bathroom and the guy we finally hired i watched and he feathered it out 24" almost ... spread out the mud that far on either side less as you go further out ... its gone now good luck


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Place a 12" mud knife on the high part and the ceiling on both sides of the hump to see where you need to fill in, no need to add to the hump itself anymore than necessary. Try to flex the mud knife a little on the side you are feathering so as not to leave a definite thick line of mud. You may need to drop the ring on the can light. If it has not been primed or painted yet, you might can sand that hump down a little to make it a little easier to deal with the can light ring.

P.S. I believe I would use light weight finishing mud ( blue lid) at this point. Maybe mix just a little bit of dawn in the mud to make a little more creamier and easy to work with.

Right before it sets up good, you might try sanding with a damp sponge to keep the dust down.


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## Jim F (Mar 4, 2010)

Dawn in the mud?


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Jim F said:


> Dawn in the mud?


Yes, but just a little bit if you use a pan like I do. Just enough to put a slight shine to the mud when you mix it in. Thats the way I try to gauge when I have enough. Just make it a little more creamier and easy to work. It still should not too readily readily drip off the knife. Kind of tricky to try and tell how much to use. It is kind of a learned by doing type thing.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I gotta echo that, Jim. How can soap on the wall (or ceiling) not affect the paint?


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Speaking of paint, you might want to prime the area to be mudded. Some say mud does not always do well on a painted surface. I have never noticed this, but I do not mud everyday.

Many people use a little dawn detergent in their finish coat.

Do whatever works for *you*.


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

boman47k said:


> Speaking of paint, you might want to prime the area to be mudded. Some say mud does not always do well on a painted surface. I have never noticed this, but I do not mud everyday.
> 
> Many people use a little dawn detergent in their finish coat.
> 
> Do whatever works for *you*.


What type of primer would you use Boman? I have never put primer over paint before i've mudded (haven't had any problems yet), but im certainly open to learning new things.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

boman47k said:


> Speaking of paint, you might want to prime the area to be mudded. Some say mud does not always do well on a painted surface. I have never noticed this, but I do not mud everyday.
> 
> Many people use a little dawn detergent in their finish coat.
> 
> Do whatever works for *you*.


 
I know and have worked with and or around hundreds of drywall finishers and this is the first I have ever heard of this.I would also wonder about PROPER primer and paint adhesion to JC with soap in it.:whistling2:


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Axecutioner-B said:


> I have never put primer over paint before i've mudded (haven't had any problems yet), but im certainly open to learning new things.


I hope this isn't a requirement, because I didn't do it.


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

kcrossley2 said:


> I hope this isn't a requirement, because I didn't do it.


It's not a requirement, I have never done it either :thumbsup: 

How did things work out kcrossley2 ?


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

It's looking pretty good. I've been really busy lately, so I haven't had a chance to finish it up. I'm hoping I can wrap it up this weekend. I'll post some pictures once I'm done. Many thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.

Best,
Kelly


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Axecutioner-B said:


> What type of primer would you use Boman? I have never put primer over paint before i've mudded (haven't had any problems yet), but im certainly open to learning new things.


So far, I have not had any problems that I am aware of mudding over painted dw either, but I have read that some others think it causes problems. That is why I mentioned it.

I have also read that the mud *suppliers do not like* dawn deteregent being added and will not stand behind it if it comes out bad. That being said, I am not the only one to do it. I do not do much dw for a living, and I am not sure where I picked this up, but it works for me.

There have been a time or two when I wondered if I added too much and caused tiny pock holes in the mud from soap bubbles popping. 

Do you guys use mud straight out of the bucket? I might for a bedding coat, according to how the particular bucket of mud is working.

I a m not crazy about spot priming either sometimes. If I do, I will sand the whole surface before I apply paint.

As far as what primer, I would feel comfortable with any good water based primer.

P.S. I have only used dawn in regular mud, not setting mud. I don't do enough dw work to argue the point. I just know it works for me, especially on the finish coat.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Okay, you guys got me motivated to do some more work on this. The wife intervened and said I needed to do something to catch all the drywall dust from sanding, so here's the latest.



















Not very fancy, but it works.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Heheh, I have done the same thing on a small patch. Had it a little tighter though. Hope the tape holds until you are finished. If it drops with very much dust in it, you may sleep on the couch for a night or two. :jester:

Btw, you mudding does look bad for someone that does not do it very much and did not go out any further than you did.

Some of my first attemps were very rough. I used way too much mud.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks. After I get this sanded and painted I can try out my new Dewalt crown molding stops so I can replace the molding I had to remove to fix the drywall above the 6 panel cabinets. http://www.amazon.com/DeWalt-DW7084...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1276317163&sr=8-1


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## Axecutioner-B (May 18, 2010)

boman47k said:


> Do you guys use mud straight out of the bucket? I might for a bedding coat, according to how the particular bucket of mud is working.
> 
> As far as what primer, I would feel comfortable with any good water based primer.
> 
> P.S. I have only used dawn in regular mud, not setting mud. I don't do enough dw work to argue the point. I just know it works for me, especially on the finish coat.


I use mud straight out of the bucket AFTER I ADD WATER & make it workable.

I trust you on the Dawn soap idea, i dont think you would steer anyone wrong.

So paint the wall with a water based primer before starting mudwork ??!! Sounds like a pain in the butt. What is the logic behind it?


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

The only time I have ever primed a painted surface bsfore mudding is when I have repaired damage dow to the rock itself. Then I used an oil based primer to seal the rock before mudding. When dry, I prime again and paint. These are times when the paper on the rock gets torn from someone removing wallpaper.

Not sure about the logic, something about adhesion (never had a problem) and maybe causing pock holes fish eyes, whatever in the mud as it dries.

I don't understand it, I guess because I have never experience a problem with it sticking to the paint. May depend on the sheen of the paint, I just don't know.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

Axecutioner-B said:


> I use mud straight out of the bucket AFTER I ADD WATER & make it workable.
> 
> I trust you on the Dawn soap idea, i dont think you would steer anyone wrong.
> 
> *So paint the wall with a water based primer before starting mud work *??!! Sounds like a pain in the butt. What is the logic behind it?


I was referring to what some say about priming a painted surface before mudding it. Like I said, I have never had a problem with regular green lid mud sticking to a painted surface. In fact, I have used blue lid light weight for cracks.

I probably would prime the whole ceiling because spot priming can sometimes cause problems. Might can spot prime with no heavy/thick outer lines and *sand* the whole wall to get the texture even overall. 

According to what the ceiling/wall looked like, I might would prime the whole thing and paint. That way, I know the surface texture would be even.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

For a small area like that I wouldn't sand at all. Use a damp sponge. If you get it too thick or rough then use a pot sponge with a rough green side and a soft sponge side. Use the rough side to clean off the rough stuff and the sponge side for finish work.

Just use care not to rub the wet sponge on the paper surface of the drywall. It will roughen it up.


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

I have used a sponge a few times. It will cut down the dust. I think there is a slight learning curve for sponge use.


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## kcrossley2 (Dec 17, 2006)

boman47k said:


> I probably would prime the whole ceiling because spot priming can sometimes cause problems. Might can spot prime with no heavy/thick outer lines and *sand* the whole wall to get the texture even overall.
> 
> According to what the ceiling/wall looked like, I might would prime the whole thing and paint. That way, I know the surface texture would be even.


Prime the ceiling with a special primer paint of simply a cheap flat paint?


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## boman47k (Aug 25, 2006)

No special primer. I have not used KilzII (water based), but I have not heard anything good about it. Just do the patch, either sand or sponge smooth, prime with a good primer, lightly sand, tack patch and paint.

I have had good luck with original Kilz oil based and Bulls Eye water based interior/exterior.

If you spot prime, try to feather the primer on the edge so you do not leave a thick edge.


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