# Leaning Porch Column



## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

I wouldn't tackle the job as you proposed it seems like a long shot to work as with all the settling and the fact that you are trying to jack up a whole side of a foundation and porch load. If it were me I would temporarily support the porch and R&R the whole column and footing. I don't know why the engineer that looked into this said it was that difficult of a repair. Seems pretty straight forward to me on what needs to be done. Anything short of replacing the footing is a bandaid. That's quite a leaner you have.

It seems you are trying to avoid the inevitable with your idea.

Not trying to be rude, but why did you buy the house if you didn't have the money to fix the column? Again not trying to be mean as I don't know your situation as to why you can't afford to do it.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for you take on it, and don't worry, I wouldn't take anything personally from someone I don't know 

We bought the house knowing about a slight lean in the column, but this has been a really dry summer so I thing the dry clay soil is making it worse. As to the financial situation, it was basically the only house in a fantastic neighborhood, that we could afford. We realize it's defiantly a fixer-upper, and that over the years we could tackle a few things at a time. This, our first year, we've already changed the roof, as well as a new heat pump and upgraded duct work. All that say, we don't have the money at this time.

So, what do you think would be the actual weak point in my plan?

thanks


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

I agree with the previous poster,use temp supports for the roof and replace the column and footing,only way to go.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

One of the problems with replacing it is that I would have to replace the leaning one, as well as 2 others. Big $
If you mean replacing it, as in rebuilding it, do you mean careful dissemble, create footing, then resemble with the same stone? In relation to that, I have a bit of a problem, in that city is very strict about their older homes maintain their look.

As for the plan I have, what do you point out as the shortcoming? 

Thanks


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## tony.g (Apr 15, 2012)

If you attempted to jack it up as per your sketch, wouldn't the bars bend if you had the jacks too far out? You would also have to jack very evenly.

Alternatively, the upward force might fracture the concrete. Remember that all the shear will be taken on the edge of the concrete, where the bars are embedded


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

I understand totally you desire to buy in a good part of town. Just was a curious to see why you bought with this problem and no current means to fix it. 

What I don't understand is why you think that you would have to replace the other two columns. They don't appear by your pictures to be settling or leaning. And it seems that if you couldn't match the other two columns on a rebuild you could veneer the other two columns with the same new material you use on the old leaning column.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would either find some means of borrowing the money (bank, family etc) or I would shore up the column by some means temporarily until you can save for the funds to do it right. 

In regards to your plan, it just seems like a long shot to work in my opinion.

Maybe I'm missing a lot of the problems you are facing because I'm just looking at a couple of pictures and aren't there to see every angle, but it sure doesn't seem as complicated as the contractors are making it out to be. A lot of work YES, but complicated...not really.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm with most of the other posters, I see know reason to mess with any of other coloums. One thing that worrys me is why were the footings done the way you suggest they were.
Someone had to know there was going to be trouble if they really are that big and that thick.
That drawing you posted is just silly and would never ever work.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

I forgot to say in my previous posts, that's a nice home you've got there, good curb appeal. :thumbsup: 

Good luck with your decision.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

The most logical explanation of the lean on the column is that it is settling unevenly. This can be verified very simply by making a few careful measurements with a builders level, a laser, or a water level. Once you confirm that the column is in fact settling, you can then move on to designing a solution.

I am going to guess that none of the contractors "want" the job because you are unable to afford to pay any of them a realistic price to remove the old column and footing, place a new footing, and install a new column that matches the appearance of the old column, which you state is a requirement of your town. Clearly that is a lot of work, not especially difficult, but time consuming and does require stone work skills. In this economy, there is generally a contractor available to perform work at a reasonable price.

As to your proposed solution, I concur that it is unlikely to be effective. It appears from your post that the settlement is continuing, and possibly accelerating. Installing concrete piers at some distance from the leaning column, and attempting to install steel rods to support the column, is going to have no effect on the settlement. So you will be relying entirely on relatively thin rods in bending to support what is a relatively heavy load. In addition to the rods bending, the rod supports could lean as well, which would allow the settlement of the concrete footing on the leaning pier to continue.

I understand you are short of funds, many folks are. If you have the skills, you may be able to demolish the old column and footer yourself, excavate to suitable soil, place a new foundation, and reinstall the stone for the column support. Of course you ABSOLUTELY need proper temporary support for the roof should you do this, improper support could lead to catastrophic failure of the roof with possible injury or death, so if you are not absolutely confident you can install bombproof temporary support, find someone who knows exactly what to do to help you. By the way, make sure you discuss this project with the building inspector first, you may need a permit.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

zeffer111 said:


> One of the problems with replacing it is that I would have to replace the leaning one, as well as 2 others. Big $
> If you mean replacing it, as in rebuilding it, do you mean careful dissemble, create footing, then resemble with the same stone? In relation to that, I have a bit of a problem, in that city is very strict about their older homes maintain their look.
> 
> As for the plan I have, what do you point out as the shortcoming?
> ...


Yes to dissemble remove old footing,then reassemble,and the look will be the same to satisfy the city,the shortcoming with your plan is that it is a band aid approach and will eventually fail.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

temp support to raise/hold the roof and possible floor support too? demo old column, salvage/reuse old blocks to rebuild with. Pour new footing a little bit higher to help old blocks fit back in. Contact your towns' historical department to approve the work...

trying to raise/support the old columns will be a crumbly mess and most likely will not work


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I can understand the short on money situation, that is why you are here to find a solution to your problem. I do have a question, in that first picture, is the cedar tree there leaning in the same direction as the column?


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Ha, you are right, and I never really noticed it before. The cedar IS leaning the same as the column.

Couple of additional points:

The bars would be larger than standard rebar, I would try and source 1 1/2" bars.

The bars would only be carrying the load during the lift phase. They, and the jacks would be encased in concrete once the column is level. They tube footings would be dug down to the frost line, so I don't see how they would not be more than stable.

As for the contractors, and not being able to afford them. Only one of them even gave me a price. It was $3500. They simply didn't want the job. I am still trying to find someone to do it. 

Can someone make a guess as to the amount of man-hours it would take to dismantle, pour footing, and reassemble?

In the meantime I am trying to come up with a plan B, hence my McGyver type solution.

Thanks for the input.


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## hand drive (Apr 21, 2012)

zeffer111 said:


> Ha, you are right, and I never really noticed it before. The cedar IS leaning the same as the column.
> 
> Couple of additional points:
> 
> ...


one of the main problems with trying to do the re bar is the undermining of the ground around the column as it sits now,lots of digging etc... 
Another major concern is that the old column will not hold together while drilling and what not and either way you need to support the roof load with temp supports. it will be less work and correct to demo, pour strong footing, and re build...


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## drtbk4ever (Dec 29, 2008)

I have no expertise but want to follow your progress and hope you can get this fixed. And as was mentioned, that is a very lovely looking home.

Please keep us updated.


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## <*(((>< (Mar 6, 2009)

First given you budget, I would contact the building department and see if you can get a consultation on fixing this, and what needs to be done regarding permitting. 

Personally, depending on your skill set I would in your shoes be installing a temp brace for the roof, and then begin demoing and excavating. After the demo and excavation is done, I'm sure contractors will have a greater propensity of giving you a good bid and taking the job. As the house sits right now, without a contractor knowing what surprises are covered up their bids are going to cover their butts, and the prices will reflect so. If you get it uncovered and they can see what they are getting themselves into, as well as, not having to budget for the demo and excavation (which your are more than likely capable of doing) they will be willing to consider taking the job.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Just a thought, if you contact a house mover they will usually have airbags that can lift that and maybe even move it, then the footing could be corrected and the column replaced.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Update:

Just to keep the thread up to date. I had a mason come and look at the situation. He was basically uncomfortable from start with the prospect of the job. 

He told me that my Mcyver solution would probably be doable given I have thick enough bars drilled into the footing,

He basically said that as a last resort he COULD demo it, get a sub contractor make a footing, and he would re-lay the brick. At a cost of about $4000. 

I called 7 masons, he's the first to show up. 3 others told me they were coming today, but never showed.


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

If you could get the weight off of it somehow, with that setup it would be hard to do. You could probably push it back straight....undermine it to the frost line and fill the hole with concrete. After a few days let the weight back on it.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hammer450R said:


> If you could get the weight off of it somehow, with that setup it would be hard to do. You could probably push it back straight....undermine it to the frost line and fill the hole with concrete. After a few days let the weight back on it.



What do you mean by "push it back straight"? any ideas on how I could do that?


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

Once you get the weight off just push, or even a ratcheting tie strap from the other column next to it and crank it over


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hammer450R said:


> Once you get the weight off just push, or even a ratcheting tie strap from the other column next to it and crank it over


Ok... I'm starting to get the idea.

Do you think I should use the far, larger size pillar, to wrap a large nylon racheting strap around and use to "pull" up the leaning one? or do you think the closer, shorter one would work?

I'd be a little afraid to use have the strap directly against the stones though. Maybe I could use a 4"x4"x4' with a rabit groove held against the outside corners of the columns... do you get my meaning?


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm not there but you get the idea, whatever works.


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

Its not going to take alot of force to get it back to where it wants to be anyway...put cardboard under the straps.


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## Canarywood1 (May 5, 2012)

zeffer111 said:


> Ok... I'm starting to get the idea.
> 
> Do you think I should use the far, larger size pillar, to wrap a large nylon racheting strap around and use to "pull" up the leaning one? or do you think the closer, shorter one would work?
> 
> I'd be a little afraid to use have the strap directly against the stones though. Maybe I could use a 4"x4"x4' with a rabit groove held against the outside corners of the columns... do you get my meaning?


 

Not a good idea to put that kind of stress on that column,or you may have a bigger problem on your hands.


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## zircon (Sep 24, 2007)

We have two columns of similar stone block construction at the front of our driveway, about the same size as yours. One had a similar lean. The mason placed vertical boards at the corners and tightened ratchet tie downs to hold the column together. Then he drove wedges between the bottom of the column and the top of the footing until the column was plumb. It has stayed perfectly plumb for the last 20 years.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

zircon said:


> We have two columns of similar stone block construction at the front of our driveway, about the same size as yours. One had a similar lean. The mason placed vertical boards at the corners and tightened ratchet tie downs to hold the column together. Then he drove wedges between the bottom of the column and the top of the footing until the column was plumb. It has stayed perfectly plumb for the last 20 years.


HHmm, very interesting idea. Sounds like it a very reasonable approach to this problem.

Where you around when the work was done? How did they drive the wedge in? What was it made of? Was it reinforced any in any other way like epoxy on the space around the wedge?


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

Those driveway columns were not holding up a porch roof.


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hammer450R said:


> Those driveway columns were not holding up a porch roof.


I will be able to take all weight off the column before I do any work. I've also been looking closer at the wood section that sits on the top of the column. On the one that is leaning I can slide a string under it and feel that only one corner is actually holding any weight. The wood is around a 2"x10" thickness, I don't think the roof needs much support, the way it's built. 

I think a wedge, with some type of hardener in the wedge crack, could maybe work. 

What do you use  in the crack if anything?


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## Hammer450R (Aug 17, 2012)

zeffer111 said:


> I don't think the roof needs much support, the way it's built.


This is where i say hire a professional lol


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## zeffer111 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hammer450R said:


> This is where i say hire a professional lol


I actually have a structural engineer coming this wednesday.

I just want to know the most about every solution to this problem, before I make a decision.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

zeffer111 said:


> What do you use  in the crack if anything?


.....


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

zeffer111 said:


> He basically said that as a last resort he COULD demo it, get a sub contractor make a footing, and he would re-lay the brick. At a cost of about $4000.


Sounds like the right plan to me. You can probably find a joker on Craigslist to do it for less, but not a professional.


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## zircon (Sep 24, 2007)

zeffer111 said:


> HHmm, very interesting idea. Sounds like it a very reasonable approach to this problem.
> 
> Where you around when the work was done? How did they drive the wedge in? What was it made of? Was it reinforced any in any other way like epoxy on the space around the wedge?


I wasn't home when he did it. My neighbor gave me the report. The other column had been hit by a truck backing into it and the top half was offset from the base by about three inches. The mason and his son fixed both in less than a day. Not sure about the wedges. You might try white oak or even steel wedges used to split logs. He grouted in the space that he opened up under the column.


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

The wedge idea is interesting, however it likely requires an adequate foundation. Unfortunately, from your photo and description, your foundation is settling unevenly, so driving wedges is not going to solve the foundation problem. In the case of a column on a suitable foundation that got hit by a truck, the wedge idea makes sense, because the foundation is not going to settle more.

Regardless, you have a professional engineer coming, and they will undoubtedly be able to give you good advice based on a site visit and local knowledge, which of course none of us here have.


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## bauma4 (Jan 14, 2014)

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I came across this while looking for possible repair ideas for our own leaning column. Our house was constructed in the mid 20's and has no footing (it's a raised house and none of our piers have footings either, which is normal for this era in our area). Not surprising we have a column which has begun to lean.

Have you gone through with a fix? What were your results?


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