# Diesel Cars....



## Ronak15 (Jan 8, 2018)

Diesel Car :

Have you ever had Diesel car ?

Which Diesel cars are small and giving good MPG ?

What is your opinion about the Diesel cars? 
Generally, They give very high mileages. 
What is the reason, people do not buy n’ drive generally the diesel cars? 

Do they have cranky / Noisy operations?
Do they fail in passing the Motor Vehicle ( exhaust/OBD test ) earlier ?
Is finding a diesel gas station is a problem ? 
Does it create more smoke ? 

What is your belief and opinions about these cars ? Pl. extend yr thoughts...


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Not sure why people drive diesel cars, but I drive a Dodge Ram 3500 with a Cummins 5.9 diesel, and would have no other. The reasons you mention are some of the "whys" people are turned away from them. Gas mileage has gone up on regular gas cars, but diesel is mid scale when it comes to super mileage. Diesel is readily available, but cost more. Another reason people don't drive them. Diesel fuel is technically a waste product, requiring less refining, so price is mostly due to supply an demand. Diesel does not produce carbon monoxide during combustion, and there are separate values at "inspection" time. I have never heard of a diesel "failing" an inspection.

With mine, smoke is produced at high demand until the turbo has spooled up. Once that happens, no smoke. I have 497,000 miles on the truck as of yesterday, so that's another good reason to buy a diesel. Low maintenance. No ignition system like a gasser. And it is a workhorse. I weigh in at 8,000 lbs tare and still get 15 to 16 MPG regularly. Try that with gas.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe for the price paid people feel the need to drive them a half million miles to receive full benefit of the advertised engine mileage. By this time the tranny may have been changed 3 times and long before that the remainder of the car's operational features has gone to hell in a hand basket, so to speak, because the other components don't match the engine life span. 

Trade in value. Do some research on diesel car trade ins. That may be an eye opener.


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

Diesel fuel is not a problem here. I don't know about rural areas. When they were first introduced in the 70s, you had to know where to buy it. I guess that it's like electric charging stations now. I heard that the millage was better but I have no first had experience. The fumes certainly smell worse.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

Ayuh,.... I'm a Diesel kinda guy, my F-250 is Diesel, 'n it's always broken my heart that only in America, are diesels not popular,....
'bout anywhere else on the planet, Diesels out number gas jobs,...
Diesel used to be cheaper than gasoline,... Taxation screwed up that equation,....


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## CodeMatters (Aug 16, 2017)

There's a series on netflix now called "Dirty Money". The first episode is 
about the VW cheating on emissions tests. Had a hard time watching the 
end of show when VW's testing of their emissions on primates was shown. 

Many NA city's have been getting much less smoggy over the last decade 
or two. An increase in diesel cars would increase smog and resultant health
problems including deaths. 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38170794


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Good Article, but you have to remember most of it was concerning other countries, and some sub 3rd world countries, where their basic regulation of the fuel is poor. Diesel fuel in the US has been modified drastically in the past few years to adhere more strictly to clean air mandates, whereas the ones mentioned in the article just plan on banning them altogether, which makes little sense.

For instance, the amount of sulfur in fuel a few years ago was 200ppm. It has been reduced to something like 17ppm, which is good for the atmosphere, but deadly to diesel engines produced in the early 2000's. I have to add one ounce of two cycle motor oil per gallon of fuel in order to keep the engine from committing suicide. Until those engines are attritioned out we will always have their emissions. But certainly nothing like the ones in smaller countries with less strict standards.


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## cleveman (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm fixing to roll over 300,000 miles on my '01 Golf TDI.

Let's see, diesels aren't as popular in the US market because people don't care about fuel efficiency and economy, the consumers will not pay the higher additional cost, there is a feeling that they are more expensive to operate because the fuel cost is higher, and American diesels from the past were poor performers.

I think there is also some truth in the argument stated by someone, that the vehicle will be worn out before the motor is. I see this in the Chevy Cruze. The motor may be fine, but it is still in a Chevy vehicle. And it isn't just the quality of the vehicle, it is in the size and styling, finish.

We may not ever know the full story on the emissions scandal. I was wondering why the US market was being pushed towards electric vehicles while the rest of the world was trending towards small diesels. The scandal may have something to do with this.

The scandal has affected me personally. I was out with a woman the other night and towards the end of the evening, there were some indications that things could get intimate. She asked me to tell her something dirty, so I whispered into her ear, "Volkswagen Turbodiesel." I can still feel her right hand on my left cheek!


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## Ronak15 (Jan 8, 2018)

Btw,..
What kind of maintenance,.. you mean (?) engine related / exhaust related,... like valve setting, gasket covers, piston rings wear and tear,.. cleaning of fuel tank sludge, fuel filters often needs replacing,.. Exhaust pipes more often replacing,... n' that sort of,..?

Diesel mechanics are at scarce and charging higher ? 

I agree,… in India most larger vehicles,…trucks and buses long ago when I lived,… were Diesel and could be even today,.. 

I guess, the price remains almost parallel to the petrol, ( a little higher, now ) may be slightly less or more,…. This way, that way,.. On and off,…

Recent hybrid cars in the market,.. and due to new inventions perhaps it seems Diesel cars have already turned down the Diesel car’s affinity/attraction,… But I have seen in USA at a every pump station, one green particular nozzle available for diesel…. Thank god nozzle fits only in related fuel car,… couple times I was stuck in mis-using the wrong nozzles,.. 

IMO,… If German or japans makes,.. does make few good engine, then not bad to buy those diesel ones,… but I would not go for Chevy or Ford,..

Also, US Motor Vehicle rules are strict and they can deny easily with OBD / Exhaust tests and can make your Car, waiting towards salvage , may be 5-7 years earlier,… and that may offset the fuel average money saved,..


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## Guap0_ (Dec 2, 2017)

> She asked me to tell her something dirty, so I whispered into her ear, "Volkswagen Turbodiesel." I can still feel her right hand on my left cheek!


With an answer like that, I bet that was the end of the story/night.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

On Board Diagnostics on exhaust rules don't apply equally across the board with diesels. They don't produce near the CO and CO2 that a gasser does. Soot particulates, sure. Mixing nozzles is not a pretty sight. Diesel in a gasser just smokes and repulses itself until you have it towed to get it fixed. Gas in a diesel will run the engine at top RPM and blow it up in only a minute or so. RPMs for gassers, especially 4 cylinder can run up to 5000. Mine red lines at 3200 RPM. Diesels are work horses, not luxury items so to speak, although Mercedes is hot on diesel.


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

Ronak15 said:


> Btw,..
> What kind of maintenance,.. you mean (?) engine related / exhaust related,... like valve setting, gasket covers, piston rings wear and tear,.. cleaning of fuel tank sludge, fuel filters often needs replacing,.. Exhaust pipes more often replacing,... n' that sort of,...


I can't speak for any but vw but there was not really a notable difference in maintenance.. Certainly not any of the items mentioned, save fuel filters. The lifters are hydraulic so maintenance free there, 500k on original bottom end so no increased ring/cylinder wear, fuel tank sludge shouldn't exist with quality diesel, fuel filters get changed once a year @ 15 bucks so no big deal, exhaust pipes need changing less because you don't have the caustic gasoline exhaust rooting them from the inside--I find soot to be a good rust inhibitor.

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

Ronak15 said:


> Diesel Car :
> 
> Have you ever had Diesel car ?
> 
> ...




Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## Ronak15 (Jan 8, 2018)

Once and always , I have remained tempted to buy a Diesel car for good MPG and more miles it can take,.. such,.. but after reading many ppl’s opinions and looking at it from, both the sides, 
now,...I have a balanced picture now and perhaps would not be that much keen to buy it, due to many factors,.. ……

It’s higher prices,
many changes in technology,
Not worth if you are not driving a bigger vehicle and also travel a lot on highways,..
strict emission standards, 
more maintenance needed, 
higher diesel prices
and many such factors,….

I also read and herd closely few other people about their experience sand opinions, and picture now is hazy, foggy and NO for any more diesel cars,..

Few interesting opinions also extended by others,.. at other Car discussion areas too,...

News:
How a German Court Case Could Accelerate Diesel's End

More: https://news.google.com/news/search/...n&gl=US&ned=us


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

It’s higher prices,...You bet diesel options can run up to $5k 
many changes in technology, ....as with all newer vehicles.
Not worth if you are not driving a bigger vehicle and also travel a lot on highways,....Better if you drive on highways. Better fuel economy.
strict emission standards,...Almost NO emissions standards due to the lesser of contaminants like CO and CO2 
more maintenance needed,...No spark plugs, no ignition system, no high maintenance items like a gasser. 
higher diesel prices...Got me there, diesel is higher in price.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

cleveman said:


> i'm fixing to roll over 300,000 miles on my '01 golf tdi.
> 
> Let's see, diesels aren't as popular in the us market because people don't care about fuel efficiency and economy, the consumers will not pay the higher additional cost, there is a feeling that they are more expensive to operate because the fuel cost is higher, and american diesels from the past were poor performers.
> 
> ...


kinky...................................


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> higher diesel prices...*Got me there, diesel is higher in price.*


Ayuh,.... Because of *higher taxes per gallon,* on a product cheaper from the refiner,...


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

I read that in Germany, there is a proposal to ban diesel cars (of a certain age) in some cities due to high pollution. Similar concerns in France, due to pollution in Paris.

Diesel is a great engine, particularly for heavier vehicles, but it isn't perfect. F-250 with a powerstroke was idling at the gas pump right next to me this morning. Had that rumble! Fine for a truck, not so sure I would want a sedan to make that much noise.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

I wouldn't compare european diesel to a powerjoke.

The "ban" on diesels isn't as bad as it sounds. The Germans have had environmental zones in the city centers for years. They are called Umwelt Zones. To enter the umwelt zone, you must have a sticker on your windshield. It will be red, yellow or green, based upon the particulate emmissions of your car.

In the bigger cities you must have a green sticker. Smaller cities may allow yellow as well. I've heard that in some, even a red is allowed, but have never seen it.

So, you already have cars (gas and diesel)that are banned from city centers. This fight is about changing a euro 4 or 5 sticker which are green to yellow and whether you add a blue sticker ( Nox emmissisions) to the mix.

Yes, if the ruling passes what the envimental groups want, it will ban a lot of cars from entering the Umwelt zone, that can currently do so. That will affect the resale value of those cars.

However, there are large areas of those cities where you can still drive those cars.
Here is link that shows the Munich Umwelt zone on a map.
http://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/germany-mainmenu-61/munchen


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Oso954 said:


> I wouldn't compare european diesel to a powerjoke.
> 
> The "ban" on diesels isn't as bad as it sounds. The Germans have had environmental zones in the city centers for years. They are called Umwelt Zones. To enter the umwelt zone, you must have a sticker on your windshield. It will be red, yellow or green, based upon the particulate emmissions of your car.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation. Me, I have never owned a diesel so I have no opinion on the powerstroke/cummings eternal debate. 

I have no doubt they both are fine engines.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

> Had that rumble!


Nothin' like a Cummins. Dodge makes it........Cummins shakes it. I turn mine off at drive thru windows, not because of exhaust noise, but because of the fine rumble.

I don't see a fair comparison to European diesels versus the workhorses we have here in NA.


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

chandler48 said:


> Nothin' like a Cummins. Dodge makes it........Cummins shakes it. I turn mine off at drive thru windows, not because of exhaust noise, but because of the fine rumble.
> 
> **I've gotta do the same in my 4bt jeep--too much clatter for the drive thru speaker
> 
> ...


Hate to be /that/ guy  but Cummins is European... Probably why it works so well.  Bosch, another German company, makes the injection pumps that are found in a large percentage of diesel vehicles, worldwide, and nearly all Cummins and Volkswagen engines. 

You're right about the ulsd wreaking havoc on older diesels. They relied on the lubricity of some chemicals that the desulfuring process removed from the fuel oil. 2 stroke is good stuff but you have to dose it around 1 oz per gallon. Optilube xpd requires lower dose but costs more in a straight volume comparison. Haven't done the math on per gallon of diesel cost analysis, yet.

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

> Hate to be /that/ guy but Cummins is European


"Developed", not manufactured. They are manufactured, probably in Mexico 

Yeah, I have to let every 5th tank of fuel go without the 2 cycle to even things out, since measuring is not all that accurate. It DOES make a big difference in how the engine performs.


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## Oso954 (Jun 23, 2012)

> but Cummins is European...


How do you get that ? 
AFAIK, Columbus Indiana hasn’t moved.

But yes, comparing truck engines in the 6L plus or minus range to car engines in the 1-3L range isn’t fair.


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

Oso954 said:


> How do you get that ?
> AFAIK, Columbus Indiana hasn’t moved.
> 
> But yes, comparing truck engines in the 6L plus or minus range to car engines in the 1-3L range isn’t fair.


Well, huh.. I could've sworn Cummins was German or Swedish. Turns out I'm an idiot  lol
Looks like they've been in the US since their inception back in 1919. Thank you for stopping the propagation of misinformation

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

Europe had a lot to do with the development of the diesel, and still probably has an edge on smaller ones. Big honkers are reserved for US markets. I, too, was not aware of the plant in Indiana. Most of the parts on my truck say made in Mexico.


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## Bigplanz (Apr 10, 2009)

Lots of powerstrokes here in Louisville, since this is where the superduty series is built. (F-250 through F-550, plus Expedition and Navigator)

Another plant in Louisville makes the Escape and the Lincoln version pf the Escape. Yeah, this a Ford town.


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## chandler48 (Jun 5, 2017)

> Yeah, this a Ford town


Well, drive what you can  JK


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## Ronak15 (Jan 8, 2018)

*Re: Diesel Cars !* 
Can anyone suggest few good diesel cars Model and makes, 
of small size ( 2 Dr be fine,.. small 4 doors be fine, preferably Japan / Germany make ) but automatic, not very very latest ones, but let sat 5-8+ yrs and older,...

Thx


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