# Hot Water doesn't last as long as it used to.



## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

Our house was built in 2000 and it has the original hot water heater still. Lately it doesn't seem like the hot water is lasting very long. We have a 75 gallon heater and it goes cool before our 50 gallon soaking tub is even half full.

We seem to have enough for showers, although within the last 6 months I've had to inch up the thermostat a few times to keep the water at a normal temp. Right now if the dial is on the "normal" setting the water is only luke warm. Its about 2 notches forward currently.

I tried flushing it out into our Sump since its in the basement but it looked pretty clear from what I could see. I also noticed an old water spot on the concrete about 2 inches in diameter under the pressure release pipe.

Is this a sign of it maybe needing replacing soon? If so, since its 75 gallon and they aren't much more expensive then tankless water heaters, is it worth the switch?? Or should we get a direct replacement?

Thanks in advance


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## ranger12 (Jan 3, 2011)

Just had same with 2002 hwh. Bad thermostat on one element. Replaced both thermostats and both elements.


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## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Sounds like the thermocouple that extends into the tank off the gas valve has some calicum build up.

You can drain the tank, remove the gas valve and clean it or simply replace the gas valve. If it is a gas water heater.

If it's electric you may have a bad element.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

adgjqetuo said:


> Our house was built in 2000 and it has the original hot water heater still. Lately it doesn't seem like the hot water is lasting very long. We have a 75 gallon heater and it goes cool before our 50 gallon soaking tub is even half full.
> 
> We seem to have enough for showers, although within the last 6 months I've had to inch up the thermostat a few times to keep the water at a normal temp. Right now if the dial is on the "normal" setting the water is only luke warm. Its about 2 notches forward currently.
> 
> ...


A tankless model is roughly about the same price as a 75 gal, but the install for that tankless along with the heater itself could reach $3k. 

Maybe you should consider a 98 gal tank with high recovery.

http://www.hotwater.com/water-heaters/residential/conventional/gas/promax/promax-plus-high-recovery/


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm sorry....I didn't see the part that says gas or electric. If it's electric one of the elements isn't working, either bad element or thermostat issue. Sediment build up can often reach the lower element and cause it to fail.


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks, it is gas.

How expensive are those repairs you mentioned? Is it worth fixing a 13 year old HWH?


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## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

If you have the room you might change out to two 40 gl water heaters (Better Warranty) or better yet go tankless. Never ending hot water.

But with a tankless keep in mind that once a year you need to flush it. It's in the manual but not many retailers tell you that.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

13 years is a good life span for a water heater. The very best are usually warranteed for at most 12 years, while most are at 6. Take the opportunity to change it before it becomes a necessity. Tankless gas are OK, but the installation can be costly. Whatever you decide, get 3 quotes before doing anything.....unless you plan on doing it yourself. If you have never flushed it sediment has built up on the bottom making the flame less effective when it fires.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Plumber101 said:


> But with a tankless keep in mind that once a year you need to flush it. It's in the manual but not many retailers tell you that.


 
This may be a stupid question, but what is it you flush on a tankless heater? If it doesn't store water why would it need flushing?


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## plumbbum0203 (Feb 24, 2009)

Depending where you live water temps coming into tank can be cooler in winter months. This would cool the tank quicker. The thermocouple does not regulate temp only a safty device. Depending on demand and future use I would look into tankless. This only makes sense if it justify the exspense of a tankless. Most of those can be double or triple the cost of the 75 gallon. If you have kids and you plan on staying get one. If it's you and the wife and you plan on moving soon go with the cheaper investment. I try to educate all my customers and let them decide which is the best fit for them. Too bad all those good tax rebates are overwith. Good luck.


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## plumbbum0203 (Feb 24, 2009)

Tankless have smaller tubing inside like a radiater on a car. These will clog like your heart artery after dinner at KFC


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

I am of the opinion that unless you need a continuous supply of hot water a tankless water is overkill for almost all situations. And I would never install an electric tankless heater....they are energy hogs.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

plumbbum0203 said:


> Tankless have smaller tubing inside like a radiater on a car. These will clog like your heart artery after dinner at KFC


 
I understand that. But isn't it flushed every time it is used?


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## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

Missouri Bound said:


> This may be a stupid question, but what is it you flush on a tankless heater? If it doesn't store water why would it need flushing?


 
The imperative still build up just like a tank WH. The heat exchanger on a tankless is small. I'm sure you know this. In areas where water hardness is great and no water softner is used the hardness will clog and I mean completely plug this little heat exchanger.

We use a mixture of distiled water and vinager.

The Sonic here will replace there tankless every year to two years because they won't pay someone to flush it.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks for the expaination....now it makes sense to me.:thumbsup: I wonder how many homeowners would do this, or even have it done. Seem like an additional cost which could affect a portion of the savings the tankless claim to provide.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Plumber101 said:


> The imperative still build up just like a tank WH. The heat exchanger on a tankless is small. I'm sure you know this. In areas where water hardness is great and no water softner is used the hardness will clog and I mean completely plug this little heat exchanger.
> 
> We use a mixture of distiled water and vinager.
> 
> The Sonic here will replace there tankless every year to two years because they won't pay someone to flush it.


Wouldn't the homeowner notice a decrease in water pressure/flow rate?


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## Plumber101 (Feb 25, 2009)

handy man88 said:


> Wouldn't the homeowner notice a decrease in water pressure/flow rate?


Yes they could and usually by then it's to late. We install Rheem and haven't noticed it as much as the rinnai.

I like Rheem because we can us Sch 40 3" as the flue. Heck alot cheaper that rinnai's metal flue.


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

Plumber101 said:


> Yes they could and usually by then it's to late. We install Rheem and haven't noticed it as much as the rinnai.
> 
> I like Rheem because we can us Sch 40 3" as the flue. Heck alot cheaper that rinnai's metal flue.


Isn't that extra cost just passed along to the homeowner?


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

handy man88 said:


> Isn't that extra cost just passed along to the homeowner?


 Of course it is....at twice the cost. Overhead isn't negotiable, it's part of the process.:yes:


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## adgjqetuo (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi everyone, thanks for all of the responces. Right now its only my wife and I living here, but we plan to expand with a family in the upcoming years. We definitly plan on living here 30 + years so that isn't an issue. My biggest concern was having enough water for all 3 bathrooms (more so when we have kids) and to fill our soaking tub, we usually use it once a week or so. 

I did some research on tankless water heaters this morning. Some sites say it can take nearly 22 years to pay for itself including maintenance and installation!  With all of the extra costs involved, I think we may just get a new 75 gal tank HWH and get by for another 10 years. I don't think I want to fix thed one I have now because my biggest fear is it springing a leak and getting water all over my fully finished basement.

Is there a particular brand that is reccomended? Home Depot has GE and Lowes has a brand called Envirotemp which I haven't really heard of before but its almost 100 dollars cheapper. HD and Lowes only had one option for 75 gallons. Is there anywhere else I can shop for them at?

Thanks again!


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## handy man88 (Jan 23, 2007)

adgjqetuo said:


> Hi everyone, thanks for all of the responces. Right now its only my wife and I living here, but we plan to expand with a family in the upcoming years. We definitly plan on living here 30 + years so that isn't an issue. My biggest concern was having enough water for all 3 bathrooms (more so when we have kids) and to fill our soaking tub, we usually use it once a week or so.
> 
> I did some research on tankless water heaters this morning. Some sites say it can take nearly 22 years to pay for itself including maintenance and installation!  With all of the extra costs involved, I think we may just get a new 75 gal tank HWH and get by for another 10 years. I don't think I want to fix thed one I have now because my biggest fear is it springing a leak and getting water all over my fully finished basement.
> 
> ...


I bought my 75 gal AO Smith online and hired a plumbing company to install it. Supposedly there are only 3 HWH manufacturers in the US. AO Smith, Rheem, and Bradford White. They supposedly make HWH's for HD and Lowes, but lower grade. Apparently all HWH's are made in the US now.

I paid about $850 for the HWH and $450 to remove old and install new. I saved about $400 doing it my way based on the quotes I was getting from all inclusive plumbing companies.

BTW, my model was the 6-12 model that has the magnesium anode and extended warranty, which is about $100 more expensive.


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## Missouri Bound (Apr 9, 2011)

Handyman....if you check online at either Lowes or Home Depot you will find GE and Whirlpool water heaters in the 80 gal. range.


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## jaydevries (Jan 29, 2012)

tankless has to be sized correctly. gallons per minute use vs temp. range so do not just go get a tankless with out figuring this out it might change your cost also venting can be costly unless you go to one that is vented with pvc. do you have a large enough gas supply


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