# Putting Engine Back In



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Finally got the engine ready to go back in. There have been all kind of things that made this build hard as the dickens. Then I am really slow and can't work on it long at a time so it really drags on. I have another problem, I am at the point of putting the 6 speed stick transmission on the engine so I can drop it in the car. As usual there is nothing standard on this car at all.

I can not find a clutch aligning tool so I can get the clutch plate lined up perfect. I have looked everywhere and can't find one. I may have to make one, I sure hope not. There is no tip on the end of this pilot shaft as there is no bearing or bushing in the crank. The whole shaft goes into the crank and it has a round flat end about the size of a quarter.

The pilot shaft is 23 mm in dia and has 21 teeth. I found one that is 25 mm and 23 teeth but that is as close as it gets. I don't know if this is a SE R Spec V transmission or a blame Altima transmission. I guess I need to find that out some way. I would sure like to tell that fellow a thing or two that I bought this dern car from. Any one have any suggestions short of making an alignment tool myself.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

@*BigJim*
You don't have a lathe , wood or metal by chance do you?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

So if the pilot shaft and the small of the spline are the same size can you just find a deep socket that fits inside both.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> So if the pilot shaft and the small of the spline are the same size can you just find a deep socket that fits inside both.


Neal, I do have a lathe and am eyeballin a stick of bass wood. It is pretty soft so I may be able to drive it through the clutch plate and make an alignment tool. 

The socket wouldn't work, the outside diameter of the shaft and the socket being the same size and there would be no way to get it in. I do appreciate you helping to think this problem out.

I even thought about drilling a pretty good size hole in the bell housing, put the clutch plate and pressure plate in as loose as I could. Stick the transmission in the plate and work it on in, then tighten the pressure plate up after I got it all in place. What bothers me there is that hole would let trash in and mess things up big time. I may go ahead and try to make one, if I can't find one.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Neal, I do have a lathe and am eyeballin a stick of bass wood. It is pretty soft so I may be able to drive it through the clutch plate and make an alignment tool.
> 
> The socket wouldn't work, the outside diameter of the shaft and the socket being the same size and there would be no way to get it in. I do appreciate you helping to think this problem out.
> 
> I even thought about drilling a pretty good size hole in the bell housing, put the clutch plate and pressure plate in as loose as I could. Stick the transmission in the plate and work it on in, then tighten the pressure plate up after I got it all in place. What bothers me there is that hole would let trash in and mess things up big time. I may go ahead and try to make one, if I can't find one.


 The part that goes in the engine has to be the same as or smaller than the smaller measurement of the clutch or the trans shaft would not go thru the clutch
Once you have the clutch in just tight enough you can rotate the engine and measure in to the side of the plate from the outer edge of the flywheel.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> It is pretty soft so I may be able to drive it through the clutch plate and make an alignment tool.


Ayuh,.... You shouldn't need the splines on the alignment bar,......

Just the small diameter of the spline hole,.....


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Problem is that the hole for the pilot bearing is smaller than the hole for the clutch disc.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Here is a photo of the pilot shaft. I dreamed about this last night, I may be able to turn a tool for aligning out of oak or hickory and make it work. See the shaft in the photo, the hole in the crank is the same size as the outside diameter of the teeth or the splines.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> Problem is that the hole for the pilot bearing is smaller than the hole for the clutch disc.


There is no bearing or bushing in this crank, there wasn't one in the old crank. Here is a photo of the old crank:

See the hole, it is the same size as the outside diameter of the outer splines on the shaft. If you look close there is an indention in the very bottom of the crank about the size of a quarter and it is indented the same depth as the little tip is on the pilot shaft.

That first hole is for a bushing for an automatic transmission, that was a real bear to get out also, I had to cut it out.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Huh. Looking at clutch kits for those cars, they don't have PBs. Weird. How do they keep the nose of the Tx input shaft centered on the crank?


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Jim, you need a bushing.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Is it the same engine in an Altima This kit come with a bushing. 



https://www.carid.com/2008-nissan-a...et-clutch-kits-2508141610.html?parentsubmodel[]=TRANSMISSION|Standard+%28Manual%29


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This kit for a sentra comes with a bushing 

https://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow/52-40669_EY


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Neal, it does for a fact show a bushing. Now I am confused, I need to do some more checking to see if one will even fit in there. As rigged up as this engine has been, there is no telling what the dude did who put all of this together. There is for a fact no bushing in the old crank, I need to look in the new crank now and do some measuring to see if one will work or not. I am like my wife now, I really hate this car. lol I really walked into it on this one for sure.

I also have to put new ball joints in after the engine is in, so much fun. I did tell my wife a year or so ago I would really like to rebuild one more engine. I sure wish I hadn't said that now. This car has broke me from suckin eggs. lol

Just had another thought, I don't have a clue what year this engine is. I do know for a fact that no Nissian engine below a 2007 will fit this car. The only one that will fit is the 2.5, the 2.0 will not fit.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Neal, it does for a fact show a bushing. Now I am confused, I need to do some more checking to see if one will even fit in there. As rigged up as this engine has been, there is no telling what the dude did who put all of this together. There is for a fact no bushing in the old crank, I need to look in the new crank now and do some measuring to see if one will work or not. I am like my wife now, I really hate this car. lol I really walked into it on this one for sure.
> 
> I also have to put new ball joints in after the engine is in, so much fun. I did tell my wife a year or so ago I would really like to rebuild one more engine. I sure wish I hadn't said that now. This car has broke me from suckin eggs. lol


You can't trust what you see after the last hack worked on it. 

I have had to have a machine shop make one for an engine and transmission that GM never intended to go together.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> Is it the same engine in an Altima This kit come with a bushing.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.carid.com/2008-nissan-a...et-clutch-kits-2508141610.html?parentsubmodel[]=TRANSMISSION|Standard+%28Manual%29


Neal, this is an Altima engine, he took the SE R Spec V engine out. At this point, I am really glad he did, Spec V parts are so rare it is unreal.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> I have had to have a machine shop make one for an engine and transmission that GM never intended to go together.


LOL you sound a lot like me, and come to think of it, my son also. My son put a Porche engine in a VW bug and it worked, ugly but it worked. lol


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> LOL you sound a lot like me, and come to think of it, my son also. My son put a Porche engine in a VW bug and it worked, ugly but it worked. lol


https://www.bronzebushings.com/bushing_finder/?___store=default


Out side diameter. 

*Press fit* or shrink ​*fit bushing* design and installation is a common method of retaining bearings by use of ​*interference* between the ​*bushing* and the ​*bushing* hole. ... Typically, ​*bushings* are designed and manufactured 0.002 to 0.003 inch over nominal on outside diameter sizes for sizes 3 inches or less.​


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Your engine will have a serial # on the casting somewhere, that will tell you what year it was made, the same for the transmission. 

That said, you then get an input shaft from a broken transmission of the same year as the transmission you are using. 

There are many in salvage yards all over. 

You will have to disassemble your donor transmission to pull the shaft, but you are capable of that. 

Without a pilot bushing, it will run and operate, but the clutch will be SLOPPY, and burn out early, so do check for and install that bushing. 

I too have " shoehorned" engines into where they were not made to go, mated different makes , models of transmissions, transfer cases, to different brands of engines, just to prove that it could be done. 

Once you figure out what year, model of components you have, it is a task of maybe going to the manufacturers website to see what those # correspong to, but they know what they put where. 

ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

de-nagorg said:


> Your engine will have a serial # on the casting somewhere, that will tell you what year it was made, the same for the transmission.
> 
> That said, you then get an input shaft from a broken transmission of the same year as the transmission you are using.
> 
> ...


Can't find a part number so they are likely part of a $400 set for the clutch, I would check with the mechanics at the dealership, I doubt they get changed every time. Some one will have one in his tool box.


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## iamrfixit (Jan 30, 2011)

Very unlikely the shaft fits all the way into the crankshaft hole. Usually only the tip of the input shaft fits into the bushing which gets driven just flush. I've never worked on or even seen a clutch that did not require a pilot bushing or bearing. I wouldn't just go with what some previous mechanic has done, I'd do some serious measuring and research to make sure its's right.

I use a universal alignment tool, has interchangeable tips to fit the pilot bushing and a cone to align the clutch disc. Given the option of a real splined shaft or plastic alignment shaft then I'll use that but this universal tool will get the job done.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I have checked some more and they do list a bushing for this engine. My stars, will this engine ever end. The further I go the more I want to kick that idiot's rear, who hacked this engine. I wish he had all of this to do. Sorry, lost it there for a second.

I really don't know what I would have done without you fellows, you all are very very much appreciated. Thank you all so much for your patience, time and information. I am going out in the shop and look to see if I over looked a bushing in that crank. 

This is/was the first time I have ever seen a crankshaft not have a bushing or bearing for a straight stick also. I see why mechanics charge so much now, I will say they earn every penny they charge.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> I have checked some more and they do list a bushing for this engine. My stars, will this engine ever end. The further I go the more I want to kick that idiot's rear, who hacked this engine. I wish he had all of this to do. Sorry, lost it there for a second.
> 
> I really don't know what I would have done without you fellows, you all are very very much appreciated. Thank you all so much for your patience, time and information. I am going out in the shop and look to see if I over looked a bushing in that crank.
> 
> This is/was the first time I have ever seen a crankshaft not have a bushing or bearing for a straight stick also. I see why mechanics charge so much now, I will say they earn every penny they charge.


An automatic tranny doesn't use one, so a new or used crank may not have one .


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: the "dim-bulb", that built this, did have all this to do, just refused to.

Then conned you into buying his "rigged" heap. 

Not rubbing salt in your wound, but there are places for idiots like the previous owner. 

Be glad that you will never encounter them again, you might end up incarcerated. :devil3:

And we don't want that. 


ED


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

If you can measure the input shaft accurately you could do up a design and print an alignment tool on a 3D printer. If you don't have one there are services that can make parts like this for you for not too much $$.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Jim,

Here is a link to an already designed "parametric" clutch tool. That means you can take the scad file and modify the design to meet your specs. There are also files for already designed tools for Acuras that might have worked with simple diameter changes but unfortunately have 23 teeth not 21. But any 3D print service should be able to take the scad file here and turn one of these out for you with the right diameter, length and number of teeth.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:37482


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Neal, believe it or not the Altima crank comes with a bushing that the tip of the torque converter fits into, see the photo with the bushing, it is for an automatic, the one without the bushing is for a straight stick.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

raylo32 said:


> Jim,
> 
> Here is a link to an already designed "parametric" clutch tool. That means you can take the scad file and modify the design to meet your specs. There are also files for already designed tools for Acuras that might have worked with simple diameter changes but unfortunately have 23 teeth not 21. But any 3D print service should be able to take the scad file here and turn one of these out for you with the right diameter, length and number of teeth.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:37482


Thanks Ray, I do appreciate your help. I finally found the centering tool, a friend who is a Nissan mechanic clued me in that the centering tool for an Audi will work. 

Looking at that alignment tool confirms exactly what I figured out today. I went out there and took the old crankshaft and tried to see how far the pilot shaft of the transmission would go into the end of the crank. To my surprise it doesn't go inside the crankshaft at all. Only that tip touches the inter hole but there is still about 1/8 - 5/32 inch of that tip that is not touching anything. 

I could work the crank up and down because the tip of the pilot shaft was smaller than the hole in the crank. There has got to be a bushing that fits flush with the crank that the tip of the pilot shaft fits into. 

When I saw the Audi centering tool, I noticed that after the splines there is a step down, which is exactly the same diameter as the tip on the end of the pilot shaft. Neal, you are right, that crank has to have a bushing. I looked it up and like you said, a bushing is listed for that crank. It makes all the sense in the world now. I think I can get this transmission back in now. Now to see if I can find a tool for the Audi, if not I will make one.

I know y'all are tired of listening to me whine and belly ache, so I will try not to pester y'all...much. I will let you know how it goes. 

Fellows I can't thank y'all enough, thanks for all the support and encouragement, you guys are the best.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: it's not a bother at all, we are learning as you go along. 

As long as we all learn something new each day we still have a purpose in existing. 

Therefore I learn something each day, most times I will never use that knowledge, but I still want to learn, it keeps the rust out of my neurons. 

Will see you here "NEXT YEAR". :biggrin2:


ED


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Learning new stuff is fun and pretty easy. The trick is to remember it 5 years later when you might actually need it!



de-nagorg said:


> Jim: it's not a bother at all, we are learning as you go along.
> 
> As long as we all learn something new each day we still have a purpose in existing.
> 
> ...


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Ed, I love to learn new things also, but sometimes it is pretty hard to get to the point of getting it right. 

Like this bushing, I just talked to another Nissan mechanic and he said the bushing wasn't needed, but I could put one in if I wanted too. He said it would help with aligning the clutch plate. He also said it came from the factory without a bushing. 

I will put one in because I had to cut that bushing out that was in the new crank that was for an automatic. There was not enough lip on the inside to get hold of with a puller and wet toilet paper didn't do anything to get that bushing out. In grinding and prying I boogered the crank hole up a little so the bushing would really be a help to me in this case.

I did a lot of measuring and checking yesterday. All that touches the crank is where the teeth of the spline are slightly tapered. There can't be more than a really light 1/8 inch of metal touching metal there. I put a straight edge across the bell housing and measured from the straight edge to the pilot shaft on the transmission and that is all that touches the crank. 

I measured the inside diameter of the hole and it is the same size as the... hmm, hard to explain. If I were to use a round dowel, without any teeth, and pushed it into the clutch plate and it came out the other side, the diameter of that dowel is the same size as the hole where a bushing would go into the crank.

The tip on the pilot shaft end is a good 1/8 inch smaller than the hole the bushing goes into. So if I put a bushing in, the only thing that will touch the crank will be that slight bevel of the teeth of the splines and the tip will be supported inside the bushing. 

It seems like the clutch plate will be more accurately centered with the bushing in there so I will put one in there. The weird thing is, the centering tool for the Audi will fit through the splines of the clutch plate, and the step down of the centering tool will fit into the bushing in the crank.

Good grief, I just wrote a book. lol

I hope none of you have a hangover this morning. lol I didn't even realize the new year had come in last night, I was watching "Mountain Men" on TV. Oh well another cup of coffee then up and at em. I didn't do jack yesterday but measure and see what to do next. I hope you all have a great New Year.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: no hangovers here, I went to bed about 10:30, and did not get up until 08:00 this morning. 

Of course being 65, I had to get up twice overnight to go . :vs_mad:

Dang I wish that my body stayed as young as my brain thinks it is. :biggrin2:


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Jim: no hangovers here, I went to bed about 10:30, and did not get up until 08:00 this morning.
> 
> Of course being 65, I had to get up twice overnight to go . :vs_mad:
> 
> ...


Man I wish I could get that much sleep at night, I am lucky to get 6 hours but then I do take a Social Security nap most days. lol By the way, I got 11 years on you and I feel every one of them. lol


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Man I wish I could get that much sleep at night, I am lucky to get 6 hours but then I do take a Social Security nap most days. lol By the way, I got 11 years on you and I feel every one of them. lol


 I too normally sleep about 6 hours a night, but sometimes, I just use a self induced yoga exercise, and get a few more ZZZ's. 

ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

*@BigJim*
I did a lot of measuring and checking yesterday. All that touches the crank is where the teeth of the spline are slightly tapered. There can't be more than a really light 1/8 inch of metal touching metal there. I put a straight edge across the bell housing and measured from the straight edge to the pilot shaft on the transmission and that is all that touches the crank. 

I think you will be looking for that adapter you had trouble taking out of the old one.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Man, getting up *only* twice at night is a GREAT night for me!



de-nagorg said:


> Jim: no hangovers here, I went to bed about 10:30, and did not get up until 08:00 this morning.
> 
> Of course being 65, I had to get up twice overnight to go . :vs_mad:
> 
> ...


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I have replaced Honda clutches and most don't have a pilot bushing as the splines don't go in the crank. Just hangs there. If I didn't have a clutch alignment tool, I 'eye balled' it to center and it work ok. Man, you are sure having a time with that. I sure hope it works out ok. Good luck. :vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> I have replaced Honda clutches and most don't have a pilot bushing as the splines don't go in the crank. Just hangs there. If I didn't have a clutch alignment tool, I 'eye balled' it to center and it work ok. Man, you are sure having a time with that. I sure hope it works out ok. Good luck. :vs_cool:


BB I have had a tough engine or two before but nothing like this. This is like reinventing the wheel for me. I have taken my time on this one though, there are days I don't do anything on it. When I do get out in the shop I can only work on it a little at a time. I can tell you one thing, I have the very highest of respect for you guys who do mechanics for a living. 

I even found out that the Honda engine runs backwards. lol I picked up a bushing yesterday and hope to get it installed today. If it rains as hard as they say it is going to I won't though. When it rains really hard I get a couple inches of water in the shop. Why they built this house like this is beyond me.

I just hope I have that reluctor wheel centered right or the engine won't run at all. I am sure doing a lot of praying that it does run.

Ray, I can't believe I got as much sleep as I did last night. When I usually get up at night, I will just come in here and sit in the computer chair and go back to sleep. I have tried to sleep in bed but about three hours and my back kills me so I have to get up and get in this chair and sleep the rest of the night. 

We have a double recliner love seat and that is where we sleep the most but it is such a hassle to get comfortable in it I don't try once I get up.

Neal, the bushing I took out of the crank, the smaller hole was smaller than the hole behind it that the end of the pilot shaft touches. If you look at the photo of the pilot shaft with the splines, see the bevel on the splines, that is all that touches the crank. In the other photo, see the slight bevel, that is where the bevel of the splines touch. The tip of the pilot doesn't touch anything. But it will when I install the bushing, that tip will fit right inside the bushing.

The last two photos are of the automatic crank with the bushing, the last is of the manual crank without the bushing.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

This looks like it is for a transmission where the shaft doesn't reach but i guess only god and Nessan know for sure.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I also have a bad back. L5. I got a inversion table and it is night and day for me. My feet went numb. Then it started crawling up my legs. My right leg was numb up mid way on my thigh. Left was numb up to my knee. Then I started getting a sever pain right in the middle of my shoulders and a 3 inch band around my chest which was numb. This was a year long thing. Didn't happen over night. I started do the inversion table and now only the balls of my feet are numb but it's crawling away. If it wasn't for the table, I would be dead or not moving. And yes, my chiropractor hates my table as I don't see him much anymore plus he wasn't helping much or maybe he helped by stalling the numbness. I hit that table before work and after. I'm on it only for a few minutes. I can now sleep in bed without pain. Thank you Teeter inversion table.:biggrin2:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> I also have a bad back. L5. I got a inversion table and it is night and day for me. My feet went numb. Then it started crawling up my legs. My right leg was numb up mid way on my thigh. Left was numb up to my knee. Then I started getting a sever pain right in the middle of my shoulders and a 3 inch band around my chest which was numb. This was a year long thing. Didn't happen over night. I started do the inversion table and now only the balls of my feet are numb but it's crawling away. If it wasn't for the table, I would be dead or not moving. And yes, my chiropractor hates my table as I don't see him much anymore plus he wasn't helping much or maybe he helped by stalling the numbness. I hit that table before work and after. I'm on it only for a few minutes. I can now sleep in bed without pain. Thank you Teeter inversion table.:biggrin2:


BB, I had one of those, years back, but I didn't really need it then, but man I could sure use it now. I hear stretching the spine does really help. I have tried holding on to something over head and just basically hanging there by my arms and it does seem to help. 

I was told I have degenerative bone disease and at my age I am not surprised. I will give stretching my spine several times a day and see how it works. 

What I would give for a good nights sleep in bed. The doctor told me sleeping in a sitting position is really bad on a lot of things especially your kidneys and other things.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: I have a counter and an Island stove close enough together that I can put one hand on the counter, and the other on the island, and lift myself up a few inches, I hang there like I was on the parallel bars in the gym.

My back will pop 5-7 times while I'm hanging there, and realign itself quite well. 

It takes upper body strength to hold our BIG selves up very long this way, but afterward I feet good for hours.

I have a problem with that upside down TEETER thing, I get too dizzy , even bending over to pick up something off the floor. 


I had a very Traumatic Brain Injury, 42 years ago, and get vertigo so easy now.



ED 

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Jim: I have a counter and an Island stove close enough together that I can put one hand on the counter, and the other on the island, and lift myself up a few inches, I hang there like I was on the parallel bars in the gym.
> 
> My back will pop 5-7 times while I'm hanging there, and realign itself quite well.
> 
> ...


Getting old sure isn't for wimps. lol I have come to realize that pain is just a reminder that we are still alive. I hate that you get vertigo, that would drive me nutz. I know, that is a putt not a drive. lol

I got out in the shop today and made a centering tool and put the bushing in the crank. After I got the flywheel back on I realized I had made the centering tool too short. Went in to eat supper and when I came back out there was about 2 1/2 inches of water in the shop. It is raining like crazy here. When it rains really hard the shop floor gets flooded. Why they made the shop floor that low is beyond me. Maybe tomorrow.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Getting old sure isn't for wimps. lol I have come to realize that pain is just a reminder that we are still alive. I hate that you get vertigo, that would drive me nutz. I know, that is a putt not a drive. lol
> 
> I got out in the shop today and made a centering tool and put the bushing in the crank. After I got the flywheel back on I realized I had made the centering tool too short. Went in to eat supper and when I came back out there was about 2 1/2 inches of water in the shop. It is raining like crazy here. When it rains really hard the shop floor gets flooded. Why they made the shop floor that low is beyond me. Maybe tomorrow.


It's definitely not for wimps. 

I wake up and check for pain, and think, pain, then I ain't dead yet, so I'll get up and do something. :vs_laugh:

Have to crawl out of bed, one leg 12'" shorter than the other, and there is no hit the floor running .

Slide out of bed on one foot, Pirouette, and sit in a wheelchair, then one leg run/ roll to the toilet. 

I spend about 14 hours a day in that wheelchair, or in bed, or in this desk chair. 

Then bolt on the prosthetic, and do the chores, go shopping 2 days a week, or something besides sit. 


I was wondering about the surface rust on all those parts in the pictures, your tale of a partly flooded shop, would explain that.

I could not stand my engines getting rusty like that. 

I hope that you clean it off before final assemblt.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> It's definitely not for wimps.
> 
> I wake up and check for pain, and think, pain, then I ain't dead yet, so I'll get up and do something. :vs_laugh:
> 
> ...


I know the parts look like they have rust on them but they really don't, that is just the way the phone camera makes things look. They even look like they have saw dust or grit on them but they don't, they are really clean when you see them in person.

Ed, I really do hate that you have to go through all that you do, I may have 11 years on you but you must have way more miles on you than I do. I am blessed to still be getting around as much as I do. Well got the hit the recliner hope to get more done tomorrow, Lord willing.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> I know the parts look like they have rust on them but they really don't, that is just the way the phone camera makes things look. They even look like they have saw dust or grit on them but they don't, they are really clean when you see them in person.
> 
> Ed, I really do hate that you have to go through all that you do, I may have 11 years on you but you must have way more miles on you than I do. I am blessed to still be getting around as much as I do. Well got the hit the recliner hope to get more done tomorrow, Lord willing.


Jim: I appreciate the sympathy, but I was not whining really. 

I prescribe to the philosophy

" Life is not a race to see who can die and leave the perfectly preserved corpse.

Life is an adventure to be enjoyed, and at the end come sliding in sideways yelling 

" WOOHOO, WHAT A HELL OF A RIDE." " :biggrin2:

Yeah, I have been through a lot in my life, still looking ahead to more, but trying to be a little safer now. 

I apologize for "hijacking" your thread.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Jim: I appreciate the sympathy, but I was not whining really.
> 
> I prescribe to the philosophy
> 
> ...


Buddy, whining never entered my mind in the least. hijacking? If anyone hijacked or got off topic, I did. I don't really care if a thread I start goes off topic, life is what life is. If someone feels like saying something they want to, by all means go ahead, it doesn't bother me at all.

I got to turn the fans on out in the shop so it will dry out so I can get the transmission mounted and get this over with. Man talk about dragging a job out. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hot diggity dad blame, the transmission is now stuck and is swinging with the engine. I found an old pilot shaft centering tool but it was no where close. I noticed it was tapered on the back side so I wrapped electrical tape around the part that goes in the bushing. Worked like a charm. 

I have one of the deals that I can tilt the engine as much as I need to. I set the transmission on plywood across the legs of the hoist, let the engine down and tilted it as close as I could to fit on the transmission. I kid you not, it went on so easy it scared me. I didn't force it with bolts either. I turned the engine over several times to be sure it wasn't in a bind and it is smooth as silk. 

Now just put the small stuff back on and when it ever quits raining I will put the thing back in, Lord willing. Now if it runs ok I will be beside myself. Happy, happy, happy. :vs_bananasplit:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That's great news. 

On the weather report this evening, they were predicting a major rain storm from the Gulf, all the way up to New England, so it looks like about a week until you get to install this thing. 

But any progress is a step toward being a proud driver of this machine once more.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Today was a good day and a not so good day Everything is on the engine that I can get on it and still get it in the car, except for the exhaust manifold.

I got a code a time or two for a bad 02 sensor or a leak in the exhaust. I decided to put a straight edge across the exhaust manifold and the blame thing is not straight. Both ends have a gap of about .020, see the photo below. There is the problem with the leaking exhaust, so now I will have to spend half a day flattening the dern thing. One thing right after the other on this car. 

I hope to drop it in on Monday if the weather holds out.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: I have seen "hacks" take a second exhaust gasket, cut it into sections, and use 2 layers of gasket on areas that were warped like that. 

It's faster than machining the other part of the manifold down, but not right. 

I'm just saying that it works for a while with double thick gaskets in there, but I still don't recommend it. 

You did say once that you had all the machining tools , so why not use them again.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

All I have that will work flattening the manifold the easy way is a 48 inch belt sander. I may try to dig it out Monday and do it the easy way. If not I will just do it by hand, I don't want to chance a blown gasket, that manifold is a booger bear to get off once the engine is in the car. The bad part is there are two catalytic converters about 6 inches down built into this manifold, I sure don't want metal filings in them.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That belt sander table might not be long enough, finish it on a long belt stapled to a flat work bench. I have clamped the sand paper to a table saw table for a flat surface.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> That belt sander table might not be long enough, finish it on a long belt stapled to a flat work bench. I have clamped the sand paper to a table saw table for a flat surface.


The sander I have takes an 89 inch sanding belt, but I have it stored out in the shed, I hate to dig that thing out. I don't even remember if it is 110 or 220. I have clamped sand paper to a table saw also, it does work but it is going to take some grinding to get this one flat, it is at least 20 thousands out.

Hmmm, I gave my unisaw away the only table saw I have now is a larger job site Dewalt. Love that saw. 

I am sure tired of fooling with this engine now. I started back Nov 15th I think. There have been a bunch of days I didn't work on it at all and most days I only work on it for about 3 or 4 hours, just can't hold out long any more. I started working on our cars back in June when that tanker hit my wife's car and totaled it. I have got to fix the Pathfinder after I finish this engine, man I hope this engine works good.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I got the engine back in, it was a struggle and I still have to take the right side motor mount back off and raise it up another 1/4 of an inch. The engine is sitting, well almost sitting on the frame (carriage) There can't be .001 - .002 clearance, I will feel more comfortable with 1/4 inch clearance. 

I haven't flattened the exhaust manifold yet but I will get to that when it rains. I am just happy to have it back in as close as it is to being right. They put SE R Spec V mounts on this Altima engine and there has to be some modifications to make it fit. I see why they had the spacers on the mount now. I can't believe I am this slow. I haven't worked on it everyday and just a little while at a time when I can get out there. But I am so particular, I have to have every spec of gasket off and as much stain and grease as possible off and out of the engine.

Here is where I am today:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

You need a bigger "shoehorn".

I have seen engines sitting on 2X wood blocks, painted black, so as to not be obvious as a hack job. 

Maybe Altima mounts would be better fit, than the Spec V mounts. 

Worth a try anyway, one can always return them as long as you keep them clean, and not bolted down.

Even fabricating a new part from something besides wood, plastic or junk, might be an alternative. 

Doing the job right the first time is worth the delay, and gives your brain time to think first, before doing a dumb action.

Haste makes waste.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Ed there is a lot of room in there right now, when everything is on and finished, I have to look for ways to keep wires from touching things. The 02 sensors are so close to the fans I have to tie the wires from them back, to keep them out of the fans. This thing is packed in there. I saw where some Sentra SE R Spec Vs have the 3.5 V6s in them, I can not imagine how in the world they got that big engine in there.

I didn't do anything today, just didn't feel like doing much.

That is a good idea on the Altima mounts, I will check to see the difference, that may be the answer. The pulleys on the front of the engine are literally not more that 1/8 inch away from the side wall, there is no way under the sun to change out a belt on that thing. To change the water pump or idler pulley, you would have to swing the front of the engine. I sure would like to have one of the old cars or trucks about now.


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)

Is that 200 mph. duct tape on the driver side fender.?

it looks clean.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ron45 said:


> Is that 200 mph. duct tape on the driver side fender.?
> 
> it looks clean.


I knew someone would see that. lol I had a wire that had a slight bare spot on it and I couldn't find my electrical tape or a wire nut small enough to skin, retwist and put it on. So I used some duct tape, it was in a spot that I can't get to later. :smile:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am about burned out on this engine. I haven't even touched the engine in the last three days. There have been days I haven't touched anything on it. Oh well as long as I get it done.

The engine is in and almost everything is hooked up except for just a few things like the exhaust manifold, (which the flange needs to be flattened yet) alternator, radiator and stuff like that. What has me stopped right now is bleeding that cotton picking clutch master cylinder. Some of the guys who own one of these cars tell me it will take a good full day for two people to bleed it. Below is how one fellow bled his, and below that is the factory manual instructions. 

What has me concerned at this point is the slave cylinder that is on the pilot shaft. I did not replace it or the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate or throw out bearing which is made onto the slave cylinder. It all worked before so I am sure hoping it will work now. We are just out of money, it took all we had to rebuild this thing. Anyway, if that slave cylinder that is on the pilot shaft has air in it, all I can do is pull the engine back out and get the air out of it. 

There is no other way to get to that slave cylinder, with the transmission in place. Just had a thought on that part, maybe draw a vacuum at the bleed valve and let it suck fluid back in the slave cylinder that is on the transmission. Anyway, here are the instructions if you have a half day to read all of this. LOL Just another note. The brake master cylinder is the reservoir for the slave cylinder inside the fire wall, then a line goes from that slave cylinder to the bleeder valve at the transmission. The bleeder valve is made onto the tubing that goes to the throw out bearing and slave cylinder on the pilot shaft that can not be accessed with the transmission in place.
===============================================

Bleed the Master Cylinder first guys, I've read many threads including one member saying how they were pumping the clutch pedal for hours.

First, Disconnect the clutch line that goes directly to the master cylinder with a 10mm wrench. Allow all existing fluid to bleed out of that via gravity, or by pumping the clutch pedal. Why is this part necessarily? You can shoot a light down into the core of the master clyinder to check if the main ballast is dirty. If it is dirty, clean it ONLY with flushing of fluid.

Next preparation step is to go into the cabin and crawl underneath to your clutch pedal. Remove the Pin and Clip which connects your clutch fork to your clutch pedal. You will need a good pair of plyers for what is to be done next.

Get some clear vinyl or clear silicone tubing which fits into the hole where the brake line used to connect to the master cylinder. The other side of the tube will loop back into the top of the master cylinder.

Make sure all of the bleeding valves on the slave cylinders are 100% closed. Fill the Master cylinder with fluid, making sure that the master cylinder never empties during the entire bleeding process.

Go back into the cabin and use the plyers previously mentioned to clamp down on the fork, pushing the fork all the way to the firewall *you can't push it ALL the way with the clutch pedal itself, which explains the removal*.

Using the plyers, pump the clutch fork all the way and you will be able to see all the master cylinder air in the tubing pump back into the the top. Once all of the air is pumped out of the tubing, the next quick part begins.

All of the air should now be bleed out of the master cylinder. What you need to do next is to remove the tubing from the clutch line hole, and ninja the brake line back into the master cylinder. Now.. You will have fluid leaking out of the hole, but if your master cylinder is full, no air will get in thru that point due to gravity. Once the clutch line is back into the master cylinder, proceed to bleed the clutch lines.

You can now reconnect the clutch cylinder and the clutch pedal, via the pin and clip. Start pumping your clutch pedal and you should be able to feel pressure. Keep pumping and keep an eye on your master cylinder, keeping it topped up. Go to your slave cylinder bleeder and open it just a bit, allowing yourself to see some small bubbling from the bleeder valve. The pedal will go all soft again so close the bleeder valve when all of the air is empty while keeping the master cylinder topped up. Repeat Repeat and Repeat until no air bubbles are visible, and then move onto the transmission to bleed that valve in the same manor.

There ya go.

Air Bleeding Procedure INFOID:0000000001850840 CAUTION: Do not spill clutch fluid onto painted surfaces. If it spills, wipe up immediately and wash the affected area with water. NOTE: • Do not use a vacuum assist or any other type of power bleeder on this system. Use of a vacuum assist or power bleeder will not purge all the air from the system. • Carefully monitor fluid level in reservoir tank during bleeding operation. 
1. Fill master cylinder reservoir tank with new clutch fluid. 
2. Connect a transparent vinyl tube and container to the bleeding connector (1) on the CSC. 
3. Depress and release the clutch pedal slowly and fully 15 times at an interval of two to three seconds and release the clutch pedal. 
4. Bleed the air from the clutch system according to the following: 

1. Push in the lock pin (1) of the bleeding connector 
(2), and hold it in. CAUTION: Hold the lock pin in to prevent the bleeding connector from separating when fluid pressure is applied. 
2. Slide the bleeding connector (1) as shown to the specified distance (A) to allow air to bleed from the clutch system. 
3. Depress the clutch pedal and hold it down. CAUTION: Hold the clutch pedal down to prevent air from getting back into the clutch system. 
4. Bleed the air from the clutch system according to the following: 1. Push in the lock pin (1) of the bleeding connector (2), and hold it in. CAUTION: Hold the lock pin in to prevent the bleeding connector from separating when fluid pressure is applied. 2. Slide the bleeding connector (1) as shown to the specified distance (0.20inch) (A) to allow air to bleed from the clutch system. 3. Depress the clutch pedal and hold it down. CAUTION: Hold the clutch pedal down to prevent air from getting back into the clutch system.
5. Return the bleeding connector and lock pin to their original positions. 
6. Release the clutch pedal and wait for five seconds. 
7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 until no bubbles are observed in the clutch fluid. LCIA0409E W


Just unbelievable, I hate this car. The Japanese are laughing their butts off at Americans who buy this car. So on to another big bump in the road.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

That is nuts.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> That is nuts.


Ain't that the truth, I have never seen anything like this crazy car. I will be soooooo glad when it is back on the road.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Ain't that the truth, I have never seen anything like this crazy car. I will be soooooo glad when it is back on the road.


One guy says to the other. You wouldn't believe the instructions I wrote in the English manual:wink2:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: I feel your frustration, all the way out west. 

Someone should invent a bleeder system that is actually easy, and works on these types of cars. 

This is why most people drive Automatics now. 

Modern engineering has lost it's mind designing these things.


ED


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

And it's not just the Japanese. My 2016 Corvette clutch slave cylinder is impossible to access to bleed without removing a lot of stuff like some of the exhaust... not sure what all since I haven't done it nor do I intend to. Most of us use a work around to periodically refresh our fluid by just siphoning out the reservoir and refilling it a bunch of times. But if you need to bleed the system it is a huge job. There is an aftermarket company that makes a remote bleed fitting to make routine maintenance easier... but you have to drop the transmission to install it. Sheesh. So even GM does really stupid stuff.

Sounds like you are getting really close, Jim. I am hoping it all works out for the best and you get to enjoy the little race car for a long time.



de-nagorg said:


> Jim: I feel your frustration, all the way out west.
> 
> Someone should invent a bleeder system that is actually easy, and works on these types of cars.
> 
> ...


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

I once discovered some fords came from the factory without intake or exhaust gaskets. During the overhaul I assumed what was factory was good enough. Not so, cyl. No. 3 was dead from sucking air due to a warped intake. 

I was acquainted with a old seasoned mechanic and was told they had since came out with a gasket set. That solved the problem. If this Nissan was mine I'd not bother flattening the exhaust manifold and consider it worth a try with just a new gasket.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

raylo32 said:


> And it's not just the Japanese. My 2016 Corvette clutch slave cylinder is impossible to access to bleed without removing a lot of stuff like some of the exhaust... not sure what all since I haven't done it nor do I intend to. Most of us use a work around to periodically refresh our fluid by just siphoning out the reservoir and refilling it a bunch of times. But if you need to bleed the system it is a huge job. There is an aftermarket company that makes a remote bleed fitting to make routine maintenance easier... but you have to drop the transmission to install it. Sheesh. So even GM does really stupid stuff.


Ah, the Ranger Method. 

My C5 clutch went out (something about the PP fingers wasn't right and it wouldn't release the disc. Being the cheapo DIYer I am, I did the clutch myself. As you know, this involves dropping the entire drivetrain behind the bellhousing. Which I had to do twice. :vs_mad:

I thought I was being smart, buying a remote bleed kit for the slave cylinder (stupid GM and their internal slave). However, the kit was poorly designed, and the flex hose where the fitting exited the bellhousing bumped up against the driveshaft tunnel and kinked. I was not happy with this situation, but I wanted the car back on the road so I let it be. Later on, I had to drop the thing again to install a 90º swivel fitting, which let me avoid the kinked hose.

(None of the remote bleeder kits I've seen include the 90º swivel, which they should.)


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Exactly. Someone recently devised a new improved Ranger method that uses a 60-100cc medical syringe connected to a ~20" piece of 1/8" tubing. So you first siphon out the reservoir, then shove the tube into the line from the master to the slave as far as it'll go, then inject the clean fluid that then backfills the reservoir. Siphon out and repeat until all clean. The theory is this gets more of the old nasty stuff out than the basic Ranger method... even though the far slave end won't see much benefit except by very slow interchange. I will try this soon.



huesmann said:


> Ah, the Ranger Method.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> I once discovered some fords came from the factory without intake or exhaust gaskets. During the overhaul I assumed what was factory was good enough. Not so, cyl. No. 3 was dead from sucking air due to a warped intake.
> 
> I was acquainted with a old seasoned mechanic and was told they had since came out with a gasket set. That solved the problem. If this Nissan was mine I'd not bother flattening the exhaust manifold and consider it worth a try with just a new gasket.


SS, I had this same manifold on before the engine went down. It was spitting a code that one of the 02 sensors was bad or either one of the cylinders had an exhaust leak. While I had it off this time I used a straight edge and sure enough both ends of the flange that bolts to the engine turn up around .020 inch. 

The code was for the 02 sensor or leak in the #1 bank of the exhaust. look at the photo of the exhaust/catalytic converter, see #1 and #4 cylinder are on the same 02 sensors, both of the ends that have the gap are on #1and #4.

I used a fiber gasket last time I put this manifold on, it didn't work. This full engine gasket set I got, the exhaust gasket is two layers of metal and will never seal with the gap it has now. What really gets me is, I just bought this manifold that has two catalytic converters built into it. As much as the thing cost, I sure thought it would be right. It has been too long to send it back now though.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I just read what one of the guys who own one of these demon cars said about his bleeding experience. He said he took his to a Nissan mechanic to have a slave cylinder replaced. The mechanic told him he hopes the car burns to the ground before he has to bleed another one like this. lol I will follow the procedure and expect the frustrations.

I have tried to visualize why it is so hard to bleed. I have rebuilt many master cylinders and there is a residual check valve with a spring that keeps a residual pressure in the brake system to keep the cylinder cup lips from collapsing. Maybe the slave cylinders don't have such a check valve so the air is just moved back and forth and just a very little fluid is pushed into the line at a time.

I still don't understand why the factory manual says that a vacuum set up won't work on this system. Man I wish I knew how the slave is set up inside. Just a thought: why can't I pull the line going to the transmission from the outside of the cylinder on the firewall and using a turkey baster and bleed all the air out of that line down to the transmission. There will be fluid in that line. Leave that line open at the cylinder at the firewall and let all the air in the slave inside of the transmission bubble to the top of that line. It should work.

Then I would have to bench bleed that cylinder on the firewall to get all the air out of it. Re-connect the lines and it should be good to go. What do you think, do you think that might work?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

The last Hydraulic Clutch that I had to repair was on an early 90's F250.

And the slave was mounted on the outside of the bell housing, but I had to bleed the dang thing 3 times before I got all the bubbles out of it. 

Give me the old all mechanical linkages please.

One simple adjustment, and you're all set. 

Jim: that idea might work, if you can get the slave to give up all the air the first time, but you might have to bleed it twice or more, over a few days time, giving the residual bubbles time to get together into one. 


ED


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

After torquing the 2 center flanges and running the outer blots up to snug I'd probably consider applying some heat about mid way in the length around those 2 outer exhaust pipes with a acetylene torch to bring the 2 ends in while tightening.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

SeniorSitizen said:


> After torquing the 2 center flanges and running the outer blots up to snug I'd probably consider applying some heat about mid way in the length around those 2 outer exhaust pipes with a acetylene torch to bring the 2 ends in while tightening.


That might work, but he said that he sold his torch, because he thought that he would not be using it ever again. 


ED


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

de-nagorg said:


> That might work, but he said that he sold his torch, because he thought that he would not be using it ever again.
> 
> 
> ED


Missed that bit of info.:smile:But that exhaust material sure looks more ductile than cast Iron would be.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Missed that bit of info.:smile:But that exhaust material sure looks more ductile than cast Iron would be.


The flange is steel and is about 3/8 inch thick. Can't figure why it is so thick.

Man I miss my torches and welding rig I have needed them time and again, that was not a smart move to sell them.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I found out why it is so hard to bleed these clutches. There is a clutch damper in the line from the clutch cylinder to the slave cylinder. I kept wondering why this clutch felt so funny, now I know. It lets the clutch slip a little so people who don't know how to drive a straight stick don't get the bouncy jerking when letting off the clutch.

I am going to take that valve out of the line and see if it will gravity bleed, I bet it will. Just take that out and leave the line open for a while. All the bubbles in the slave that is around the pilot should bubble to the top of that open line. I may have to use a syringe to get fluid back in that line but, once it is full and no air, I can either put that valve back in or leave it out and finish bleeding the system. Hey, it sounds good on paper. lol Any one see a problem trying this.

It is still rain in the forecast so looks like another day and now work.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

I would be temped to leave the valve out but be prepared to change you mind after driving it. Maybe a gentle release is not possible.
I wonder how that valve works. If it just slows the fluid, how would it stop air?


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I bought a new 2002 Camaro with a manual 6 speed and I kept grinding 3rd when I was speed shifting. Come to find out that the manufacture had put a restricter orifice in the clutch fluid line to restrict the fluid flow so you couldn't speed shift. I drilled it out and no more grinding 3rd. Leave it out.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Nealtw said:


> I would be temped to leave the valve out but be prepared to change you mind after driving it. Maybe a gentle release is not possible.
> I wonder how that valve works. If it just slows the fluid, how would it stop air?


Neal, just thinking here, the reason it is hard to bleed (IMHO) with that valve in place is there is air in the line before that clutch damper. That damper is a restrictor, trying to force fluid through it when air is causing a cushion in that valve it won't open up so fluid can bypass it. That may not be the way it is but that is what I figure. 

Without that valve inline and just a regular setup like the old days, all you would have to do to bleed the clutch is just like bleeding the brakes. But since that valve is in the line, all it does is compress the air in the line between the cylinder at the firewall and the damper valve. Sorta like there is a balloon in place of the valve and pumping the peddle all it does is meet resistance and push the air back and forth and not let fluid past.

My guess is, just a just a slight bit of fluid gets by the damper and a very small amount of air is let out at the bleeder at the lower slave cylinder. By bypassing the clutch damper it will bleed much faster. Just my thinking, I really don't know for sure. I also believe I can take the line loose at the damper and fill the line with fluid and let the air bubbles rise to the top, just keep fluid in that line.

BB, If at all possible, I will bypass that damper. I appreciate you letting me know you already did and it worked.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Neal, just thinking here, the reason it is hard to bleed (IMHO) with that valve in place is there is air in the line before that clutch damper. That damper is a restrictor, trying to force fluid through it when air is causing a cushion in that valve it won't open up so fluid can bypass it. That may not be the way it is but that is what I figure.
> 
> Without that valve inline and just a regular setup like the old days, all you would have to do to bleed the clutch is just like bleeding the brakes. But since that valve is in the line, all it does is compress the air in the line between the cylinder at the firewall and the damper valve. Sorta like there is a balloon in place of the valve and pumping the peddle all it does is meet resistance and push the air back and forth and not let fluid past.
> 
> ...


 Sounds a little like a shock absorber which I have never looked at either.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

OK just call me a slacker, I haven't done anything on the car in a while now. I did flatten the exhaust manifold flange some but not perfect. It says it can be off .0279 inch and I got it down to .016 right now.

Between rain and cold weather, I just haven't felt like getting back out there. The last thing I did was bleed the clutch, or should I say, I tried to bleed the clutch. That sucker is unreal, I thought it was because of the clutch damper but it isn't. I made the clutch damper straight through so that is gone now. 

The reason it is so hard to bleed, is the way the blame hard line is from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. It has bends that are up and down which trap air and make it next to impossible to get it out. I got a peddle now but I still have at least 1 inch of play so I know there is still air in there. 

I have ran a qt of fluid through the master cylinder so far, it took most of the day to do that. The release that was supposed to let the line slide back and not come off didn't work. Every time I pumped the peddle up and held it to the floor, I would push the clip to let it slide back, but it would blow the line off so I had to start all over again and again.

I finally made a deal that would stop the line from being blown off and release the air. That worked good but still I can not get all that blame air out. If there was just a flex line I think it would work but there is no way to make that line a flex line.

All I lack having the engine done is the clutch and exhaust manifold. Of course there are several small things but no big deal. I still have to change out the lower ball joints but there is no mystery to them. I have to wait until the first of the month to buy the transmission seals so I can't put the CV axles back in until then. 

I have really hated to go back out there lately. I know I have got to but I sure am in no rush. After I finish the Sentra, I have got to find where the oil leak is in the Pathfinder, also find where the brake fluid is going. I put new rear wheel cylinders on so I don't have a clue where it is going.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: like all things in life little steps, and you will eventually get there.

Master Po once told grasshopper, that the long journey begins with the first step, and continuous steps thereafter, until you arrive at the end of your journey. :devil3:

I too get down at times, but pure determination kicks in, and I get back at it again.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Ed. Talking about Grasshopper reminded me of when I was building. My guys and I had a ball when working. We worked our butts off but we had a lot of fun in the process. One of my workers would pick up a chunk of concrete about half the size of a bowling ball, hold it in his hand and say, ahhh Grasshopper, when you can remove the pebble from my hand. LOL 

We literally laughed all day, someone was always doing something crazy. But I can tell you this, my guys were hard workers and always did a fantastic job. Very seldom did I have to go behind them and fix anything. I contracted but I worked right along with the guys.

I had 30 guys working for me one time, never again, that was a nightmare. I got out from under that as quick as I could. Sorry, got side tracked there.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Too bad that beast has the "clutch from hell" or it'd be running by now. But you'll get there. As for the other issues Roseanne Roseannadanna's mother was right... It's ALWAYS something. Really it is just entropy having its way with us.




BigJim said:


> I have really hated to go back out there lately. I know I have got to but I sure am in no rush. After I finish the Sentra, I have got to find where the oil leak is in the Pathfinder, also find where the brake fluid is going. I put new rear wheel cylinders on so I don't have a clue where it is going.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

NMC P105551MCB NAPA Proformer Master Cylinders
List:
Cost:
Unit:
24.44
12.22
Each 
 

​ 





or











 List:
Cost:
Unit:
99.66
48.99
Each
 

​ 
BK 7001762 Product Line: Balkamp


These is what I use to bleed those hard to bleed items.

:vs_cool:


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> NMC P105551MCB NAPA Proformer Master Cylinders
> List:
> Cost:
> Unit:
> ...


Will they work on this SE R Spec V, the factory manual says none of those will work but I don't see why they won't. If it will work on other cars, I can't for the sake of me figure why they say it won't work on this one.

I think it is the way the line is shaped that it traps air. The line is horizontal from the transmission for about 8 inches then it turns straight down at a 90 degree for about three inches, then crooks around then goes upward to the master cylinder. I think air is trapped in that 90 degree turn down. 

No matter where the air is trapped, it looks like the vacuum pump would get the air out. If the air is not in the line from the master cylinder to the bleeder valve, then it has to be from the bleeder valve to the slave cylinder on the pilot shaft. The line on the slave cylinder on the pilot shaft is pointing upward so just by letting it sit with fluid in it should get all the air out of that part. My reasoning is: because the air bubble will rise up to the bleeder valve. 

Thanks BB, I appreciate it.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I use the syringe a lot. MINIs have a clutch line that go down to trans, then goes over it, then down. Syringe blasts the air out. Ford Rangers also hard to bleed. Syringe does the trick. Stick it over master cylinder hole in the bottom of reservoir and open bleeder screw and push down on plunger. As fluid is coming out with no air, shut screw to keep air from entering system . Or you can push syringe over bleeder screw and pushed it up. Be careful as master cylinder like to push down, not up but I've done it both ways.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> I use the syringe a lot. MINIs have a clutch line that go down to trans, then goes over it, then down. Syringe blasts the air out. Ford Rangers also hard to bleed. Syringe does the trick. Stick it over master cylinder hole in the bottom of reservoir and open bleeder screw and push down on plunger. As fluid is coming out with no air, shut screw to keep air from entering system . Or you can push syringe over bleeder screw and pushed it up. Be careful as master cylinder like to push down, not up but I've done it both ways.:vs_cool:


Thanks BB, I appreciate that information, I will give it a try. The really tricky part is the bleeder valve. It has a clip that I have to push down on to slide the connector back a 1/4 of an inch. There is a stop that catches the clip and it is supposed to keep the connector form coming off. It does not work, when there is pressure in the line and the clip is pushed, it will blow the connector off and air gets in again.

I did make a deal that I can stop the coupling from blowing off when I push the clip. The down side of that is the fluid comes out extremely fast, there is no way under the sun to see if the fluid has any air in it when it comes out that fast. I am thinking if I can find some kind of valve I can open slowly and attach it to that bleeder hole, I can open it slowly and see if there is air coming out or not. 

With the connector slid back 1/4 inch, when you pump the peddle fluid will come out the bleeder, but when letting up on the clutch it lets air back in. With a shut off valve hooked to the tube and connected to that bleeder hole, I think it would work a lot easier. Now to just find a bleeder valve with a screw.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Read up on bleeding procedure. Here are a few ways;


1. To bleed the air out of the system, instead of opening a bleeder screw the air is bled at the coupling point of the slave cylinder and the fluid supply line. At the point in the bleeding procedure where you would normally open the bleeder screw, slightly depress the release clip and allow the supply line to back out a small amount so the air can escape out the small vent.


2. Clutch Hydraulic Bleed Procedure
- _kinda poor design,pop off the rubber cap at the connector to the clutch slave line,have someone pump it up at least 15 times,GENTLY remove the line enough for the air to exit via the bleeder that is uncapped without removing the line completely,place rags all around as this is a messy job..._

_3._
_Clutch Hydraulic Bleed Procedure
_- _BLEEDER IS ON THE FRONT OF THE TRANSMISSION. HAVE A HELPER PUMP THE PEDAL 15 TIMES, THEN RELEASE THE PEDAL. PUSH CLIP ON SLAVE HOSE AND SLIGHTLY PULL HOSE OUT. PUSH DOWN ON THE PEDAL, THEN PUSH LINE BACK IN. REPEAT UNTIL NO MORE AIR IS PRESENT._

_4._
_- use pressure bleeding with 3 psi and remove the line few millimeter away remove the quick release so you can move in and out .you need two person and pressure bleeder to do so .is hard but is happen._

_5._
_Tech Tip
_- _try bleeding clutch as identifix suggest,still no luck,open bleeder next to master cylinder for clutch,installed clear hose one end to bleeder and other end into full brake fluid bottle,pump clutch paddle till all air out and see no bubble or foam,close bleeder test drive vehicle,_

_6._
_- 2 people, while one pumps and holds pedal, the other barley disconnects fluid line at slave, this opens the normally closed bleed port and allows air to purge_

Hope this helps.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

BB, I appreciate you taking your time to help me out. The way you described is the way I have tried over and over. It is impossible to gently slide the coupling back a little. The pressure is so strong no matter how tight you hold that coupling, the pressure will blow it off completely. It did it over and over as I tried to do it that way.

That spring release is really really hard to push in with that much pressure also, even pushing down on that clip with pliers or a screw driver it was really hard.

I made a device out of 1/4 inch aluminum that I could place behind the coupling to keep it from blowing totally off. Even then, the pressure is so great it blows the line coming out of the transmission back inside the transmission and again blows the coupling off.

Today I bought a 1/4 inch water valve and some clear plastic line and clamps. I clamped one end of the hose to the bleeder port. I clamped the water valve in the line about 18-20 inches up from the bleeder port. I put another clear line on the up side of the water valve and put that end into the master cylinder reservoir so the fluid coming out would go into the master cylinder and not have to top it off every few minutes.

The fluid was clean as I already ran a qt of fluid through trying to get the air out before I tried it with the water valve. There is a sweet spot that I found that I could hold the coupling at, with the aluminum deal to keep the coupling from being blown off and fluid would come out of the bleeder port. 

I had my wife help me until her arms were hurting too bad, so I got a piece of wood that I could pump the pedal 15 times and hold it down with the piece of wood. I would go out and open the coupling to the sweet spot, and allow the fluid pressure to go into the clear line. I then opened the water valve slowly and finally got all the air out after several times doing that. I am very happy to say, I believe the clutch is bled now, since there is no air coming out at all.

Before when trying to push the clip and allow the coupling to slide back, before I used the water valve, the fluid would come out so fast there was no way to see if there was air in the line or not. It came out so fast it was like shooting a gun.

I got most of the engine parts back on today and tried to locate new seals for where the CV axles go into the transmission. I went to 5 different places and every place said, there was no results for that part for that car. Don't you just love it. Well they weren't leaking when I took the axles out so I will just chance it.

The next big thing to do is change out the lower ball joints they are pressed in, should be fun. lol

Here is the line and water valve I used today to bleed the clutch.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Glad to help. That looks like a nightmare. I run into that crap and wonder who the hell thought up this stuff. :vs_mad:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The fellow who had the bright idea of putting a blame Altima engine in this SE R Spec V and mixing parts should have to deal with all these problems. I have never in my life seen a more messed up engine. I still have to jack the passenger side of the engine up at least 1/2 more inches. The secondary oil pan is within 1/8 inch of touching the carriage. The weird part is I have raised the engine an inch already and it still too close.

What has me concerned is the way I am afraid this engine is going to shake. Several fellows said to leave the chain off the balance shaft as it was prone to fail and destroy the engine. If that engine shakes really bad, it will hit the carriage. I wonder if I can just drop the carriage 1/2 inch. Man I hate this car.

It is next to impossible to find parts exclusive to this Spec V. Parts catalog say, "No Response" on just about everything I have tried to find. If I can get this thing going good, I may sell it but I will tell who ever buys it what is going on.

The photo below shows just how close the engine is to the carriage.
The one with the pencil is how close the engine is to the sidewall, no way to get a wrench in there.


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## Bondo (Dec 8, 2007)

> Man I hate this car.


Ayuh,...... Just want ya to know Jim,........

You've got _My_ sympathy,......... I know the feelin',......


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Yep: for sure there is a fine line between LOVE and HATE, 

They run parallel, and sometimes cross each other, then the turmoil starts, and you are forced to decide whether you are better off without it, or better off with it. 

Philosophy now over. 

I hope that this car serves you well, for as long as you keep it.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Bondo, I appreciate it. 

I tried to move the engine again today, no matter what I did, nothing worked. I jacked the engine up and no go, it never moved away from the cradle. I drove a wooden wedge between the sidewall and the engine and it did move over about 1/4 of an inch, but it put the transmission mount in a real bind.

When we first got the car, I noticed they had spacers allowing the engine to be about 3/8 inch lower than the mounts were designed for. Maybe I need to drop the engine to get more clearance instead of raise it.

Is it possible to shim the cradle downward by 1/2 inch? Would it cause anything bad? I haven't looked to see if it is even possible. I am grasping at straws trying to get this thing over with. All of the engine is complete except for the radiator. I also need to install one more ball joint which isn't much to that, just beat it out and press a new in it.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I have seen people build a short riser out of square tubing, and raise their Frankencar engine up enough to gain space needed to shoehorn it in. 

You said that you sold your welding gear, that would be handy now. ( rub it in ED ), You fashion a plate that bolts to the frame in the proper place, then a 2" square tubing, cut to the length needed, then fashion a plate to bolt to the engine at the right place.

Weld these three pieces together solid, and raise the engine and bolt it up to the engine, lower the engine slowly, and align it to the frame, bolt it there and you have installed it. 


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Ed, that is a good thought if I still had my rig. Just had to rub it in didn't ya LOL :biggrin2:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Man I am fast, lol. I have laid off working...fooling, with the car for a while. I either just didn't feel like working on it, or disgusted, weather and now my health. Anyway, I do now know why I can not get any extra clearance between the engine and the frame, no matter what I have done. It for sure is the motor mounts. These are SE R Spec V mounts with an Altima engine. 

While the basic block on an Altima 2.5 and Spec V 2.5 are the same, the lower part of the oil pan is different. The Spec V oil pan sits back where the Altima doesn't from what I understand. Also the only mounts that will fit on the SE R Spec V car are the ones made for it. The Altima mounts won't bolt to the frame on this car. I still haven't looked to see if the part for an Altima, that bolts to the top of the transmission, will fit or make any difference yet, it may. I will check. 

But for now I am going to get the thing wrapped up and see how it runs. All I have to do to fire it up is, the battery box, radiator and fans. I had to order the transmission seals, no one in this town have them or even list them. I also have to change out one more ball joint. The joints were in great shape but the idiots mangled the rubber that holds the grease in sooooo.

One more thing the stupid idiot did, when he was taking the CV axle out on the passenger side, he used a steel hammer to drive the axle back and really flared the end of the axle out. I will need to grind that end at a chamfer to get the nut back on. Anywaaaaaay, I am homesteading this engine, I just hate to do anything on it it has been so goofed up.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Finally, it is a done deal, it turned over twice and fired up. It doesn't shake like I though it would but it does vibrate pretty good. I was afraid it would do some serious shaking since I disconnected the balance shaft but it just viberates.

If I don't like the vibrating I will just put a set of engine dampers in place of the stock ones, like in the photo below. When I fired it up, there are no codes and the clutch works so all is history for now, until next time. All of this just in time for the brakes to go out on the Pathfinder. It never ends.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That's great news, I like it when they fire up quick. 

Keep it tuned proper, and you will have a dependable mode of transportation, even in the cold -0 winters.

Brakes are much easier to repair, so you should have that done in a day.

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The only parts of the brakes I didn't replace a few months back was the master cylinder and the front calipers, all else is new. I don't mind brakes at all, it is just a matter of doing.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Finally, it is a done deal, it turned over twice and fired up. It doesn't shake like I though it would but it does vibrate pretty good. I was afraid it would do some serious shaking since I disconnected the balance shaft but it just viberates.
> 
> If I don't like the vibrating I will just put a set of engine dampers in place of the stock ones, like in the photo below. When I fired it up, there are no codes and the clutch works so all is history for now, until next time. All of this just in time for the brakes to go out on the Pathfinder. It never ends.


That is great news,congrats. :biggrin2:


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Glad to hear you finally got it.
Fun, huh?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

123pugsy said:


> Glad to hear you finally got it.
> Fun, huh?


Buddy I will take the old Chevys and such, they were a snap to work on, these new cars are the pits. This one is a Heinz 57 engine to say the least. 

The more I think about it the more I am sure I will put the engine dampers on the engine. The vibration is annoying and having the mounts in a bind don't help. It is crazy that the engine stayed right where it is now when I jacked it up. No matter how high I jacked it, it never moved up, just forward and put the top mount and transmission mount in a bind. I have a 1 5/8 inch spacer under the top mount and like I said, the engine never raised up. How is that even possible?

Before I put the rear mount/damper on, the engine could be swung like a baby cradle, it doesn't sit into mounts like a Chevy, Ford or Mopar, it swings from the top mounts. The fans are so close to the exhaust/catalytic converters is it unreal, I am afraid the wires will get into the fan from the 02 sensors. Man I hate this car. I will just drive it until it does something then worry about it though.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

How does it drive?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I haven't got the axles in yet, blame rain is never going to quit. I will sure let you know once I get that done. I thought I was going to get them back in Saturday but the idiot who took the axle out on the passenger beat the end of the axle to a flair so I got to fix that now. 

I dio know the clutch and shifter works perfect as I did try them, they are smooth. 

I thought about putting the engine dampers on the engine but a couple fellows who have them say they make the vibration from the engine more noticeable so I will pass on them. I was going to go out there and work in the rain but it is too cold and the wind and rain make it worse. I am choppin at the bits to get back out there, it is just a matter of a little while and I can test it out.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Finally...The last holdup was finding the right seal for the axle on the passenger side of the transmission. Finally found one that goes on an Altima with a CVT transmission. The transmission mount and mount bracket is modified so the engine could slide toward the drivers side (Modified is a nice word for mangled)

Putting the axles in was no walk in the park, seems like everything I did, the car fought me every inch of the way. I had to drive the axle on the driver's side in with a 12 pound sledge, it just wouldn't go past that spring clip. The one on the passenger side was a plate that bolted to the back of the engine. Getting those bolts started was a pretty good exercise also.

Any way, it is all back together and runs like a dream. The shaking I was worried about didn't happen, it does vibrate slightly but it isn't even noticeable if not looking for it. Only one hitch, I need the space the motor mount on the passenger side a little more, when hitting a fair bump, the motor touches the frame and that will wear a hole in the pan if not fixed. Other than that, all is fine.

Oil pressure at idle is 15 pounds and at 2500 rpm running around 80 pounds, no codes at all...yet.

I made the statement to my wife a while back that I would love to build just one more engine...I will never say that again. I really do appreciate all of your help on this crazy and long drawn out rebuild, it was a pain in the kester to say the least.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

Congrats, well done.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Finally...The last holdup was finding the right seal for the axle on the passenger side of the transmission. Finally found one that goes on an Altima with a CVT transmission. The transmission mount and mount bracket is modified so the engine could slide toward the drivers side (Modified is a nice word for mangled)
> 
> Putting the axles in was no walk in the park, seems like everything I did, the car fought me every inch of the way. I had to drive the axle on the driver's side in with a 12 pound sledge, it just wouldn't go past that spring clip. The one on the passenger side was a plate that bolted to the back of the engine. Getting those bolts started was a pretty good exercise also.
> 
> ...



What's that old warning, " be careful what you wish for" ?

This also proves that Determination wins in the end. 

Glad to have been an inspiration, and a consultant on this project.

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Neal and Ed, you are much appreciated.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Thanks Neal and Ed, you are much appreciated.


i think I learned more than I helped but you are more than welcome. :wink2:


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Congrats Jim. :smile:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

123pugsy said:


> Congrats Jim. :smile:


Thanks Pugsy, how is your Chevy going?


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

BigJim said:


> Thanks Pugsy, how is your Chevy going?



Chevy is good, 5.3 and 4L60e are in.


Working on the hot rod now:


https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/1941-chrysler-new-yorker-hot-rod-522351.html




.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is some fine metal work buddy, it does look really good.

We ventured further today and it is doing great...so far. There is just one thing that is bothering me, when it is first fired up, just as it catches, there is a thump. I thought it was because the engine needed jacking up a little more but it can't go up any higher as the harmonic balancer will hit the side wall. The balancer actually sets out further than the side wall. What needs to be done is some of that metal removed so the balancer won't hit. Well for now I am just going to drive it until something gives.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

123pugsy said:


> Chevy is good, 5.3 and 4L60e are in.
> 
> 
> Working on the hot rod now:
> ...



INSANE!!!!!


Homie...you have got some skillz!!!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Windows on Wash said:


> INSANE!!!!!
> 
> 
> Homie...you have got some skillz!!!


Have you seen some of the things he built for the house he built?


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

BigJim said:


> Have you seen some of the things he built for the house he built?



Like the range hood and other stuff...yes. He is a beast and I am just sorry he lives up North.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Windows on Wash said:


> Like the range hood and other stuff...yes. He is a beast and I am just sorry he lives up North.



Thanks, and I'm more sorry than you that I live up north, ha....:wink2:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I just give up, the catalytic converter I ordered had a warped flange so it caused an exhaust leak. I paid for the box and wrapping materials to ship it back + paid for shipping. I just got the new converter and so help me hannah, this flange is warped worse then the other one. The converter is made just like a header that bolts straight to the head so you can see in the photo tho much space is under the straight edge.

My question is: Can an automotive machine shop mill this flange flat?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

That problem is why headers have a thick heat resistant gasket that fits between the two flanges.

A muffler shop, should have the benders, and tools to align that flange better.

I would consult one of them first, before trying to mill that.


ED


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

you don't have a 48" belt sander do you. I fixed one for an employee a few years ago.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Dumb question. Have you tried bolting it one to see if the bolts will draw it in?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Without a gasket bolt it up with a reasonable amount of pressure on the bolts then light the rose bud and give it heat at the flange to pipe connection while increasing the pressure with the bolts as you heat to around 400°F. That warp was probably caused in the weld process.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> That problem is why headers have a thick heat resistant gasket that fits between the two flanges.
> 
> A muffler shop, should have the benders, and tools to align that flange better.
> 
> ...


Now that is a thought, I will give one a call Monday. 

pugsy, I did pour the coal to the bolts on the last one, it didn't work. I am afraid to put too much more pressure on the bolts, the head is aluminum. That flange is every bit of 3/8 inch thick.

Neal, that is my last ace in the hole. I tried that with the last one but broke the belt and of course no one in this town has the belts. I even checked my cabinet supply and they don't have them. I guess I can order one.

Check out the welding on this converter, it looks like a school boy did it. Also look down on the right side of the tube that says flat, they beat that pipe in to make it fit.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Without a gasket bolt it up with a reasonable amount of pressure on the bolts then light the rose bud and give it heat at the flange to pipe connection while increasing the pressure with the bolts as you heat to around 400°F. That warp was probably caused in the weld process.


That would be perfect but I sold my rig, didn't think I would ever need one again, man was I wrong.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Without a gasket bolt it up with a reasonable amount of pressure on the bolts then light the rose bud and give it heat at the flange to pipe connection while increasing the pressure with the bolts as you heat to around 400°F. That warp was probably caused in the weld process.



Then, I think this is a good fix. Cherry red the welds where they meet the flange, snug the bolts a wee bit, cherry the next tube connection, snug some more.
It will go in, I believe. Skip around with the heat, and snug a bit more. Let it cool off while it's flat and Bob's your uncle.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

There's also this beauty material:


https://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/27.htm


.


----------



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> There's also this beauty material:
> 
> 
> https://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/27.htm
> ...


They're proud of that stuff.


ED


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Now that is a thought, I will give one a call Monday.
> 
> pugsy, I did pour the coal to the bolts on the last one, it didn't work. I am afraid to put too much more pressure on the bolts, the head is aluminum. That flange is every bit of 3/8 inch thick.
> 
> ...


I did better than that when I was 10 years old.

I would be ashamed selling that garbage.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> They're proud of that stuff.
> 
> 
> ED


Ya beat me too it. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> I did better than that when I was 10 years old.
> 
> I would be ashamed selling that garbage.
> 
> ...


Ain't that the truth. They will see this sorry workmanship.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am shipping the converter back Monday, they said they wouldn't send another one as two have been bad already. They said I could get my money back or get a store credit. I chose the store credit as I paid with Paypal and it would take an act of con... naw, even that wouldn't work. lol

I will buy a more expensive better quality one with a much better review and hope for the best. This sending back has already cost me $50 and that is with their discount label. They are a good company to work with though, customer support is really good.

I know they buy parts from places who go out of business and sell them cheaper than most folks can. This time they bought a bunch of rejects and let them slip through. I really don't think they knew they were rejects. I have spent a ton of money with them and this is the first time I got a a bad part.

It will be a while before I can get back on the car anyway, I jabbed a wood carving gouge into my left hand just above the web of my thumb all the way to the bone yesterday. Left a gash about an inch long, sucker is still bleeding some. I cut a nerve, my index finger is dead on the side. Judy said she was going to take all my sharp objects away from me. lol


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

I buy a lot from Rock Auto.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> I buy a lot from Rock Auto.


BB, that is the exact same catalytic converter I plan to buy from them when they give me a store credit. They said they will send an email with the refund code to me within 3 business days after the returned converter is received by their warehouse. I figure it will be a week and a half if not two weeks before I get the replacement. The replacement is of a higher quality than the one returned. 

I just hope this virus deal don't slow down or stop the shipment. The gasket they send is $26 here, I know, I have bought 4 already. The studs that go in the exhaust cost $12 here also, so that is a good deal on that converter. Rockauto has some great customer service, I can tell you that.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: I'm puzzled.

Did you order the first two from ROCK AUTO, as well. 

And the one Bucket recommended is from them also. 

So do they offer some kind of re-manufactured one, and a new one, and you " cheaped out" and ordered the poorer one, and got what you paid for?

And now having to go for the better quality one.

After returning 2 of them, you are losing time and money by being FRUGAL. 

I had always heard that ROCK was a great place for stuff, but by the looks of those that you showed, they are shipping rejects, instead of decent items.


ED


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

de-nagorg said:


> Jim: I'm puzzled.
> 
> Did you order the first two from ROCK AUTO, as well.
> 
> ...



Frugal has nothing to do with it. A supplier should not be selling junk. After getting even a single return, they should be inspecting the others and upon finding them defective, sending them back to their supplier.


They don't sell anything used BTW. They are all brand new.
Reman items are "used" of course, but you can't reman exhaust parts.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> Frugal has nothing to do with it. A supplier should not be selling junk. After getting even a single return, they should be inspecting the others and upon finding them defective, sending them back to their supplier.


Agreed 1000%.

ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Rock Auto has 3-4 lines, economy, standard replacement, High performance, heavy duty. I use standard replacement, high perf, heavy duty. Economy is the cheap stuff but I have used it.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I hate to give them a black eye because they are so good. Like BB said, they do have different grades of parts. A person has to be careful which ones to buy. I usually go with the ones that have the little heart on the description. I didn't figure $300 would be a bad converter.

They buy close outs and from companies who have gone belly up and from over supply and they buy cheap so they can pass on the lower cost. They can't inspect all the parts, they depend on the manufacturers quality control and the companies reputation. 

Some companies who are going belly up will try to sneak seconds or rejects through to get more money for a sinking ship. I feel that is the case here. I just happened to get two rejects, especially the last one. That one was worse than the first one. 

The one BB shows in the photo is a higher dollar converter so I am sure hoping it is better than the first two. We are at rock bottom financially because of this little car and the Pathfinder. Had that fellow in the big tanker not hit my wife and totaled our good car, we wouldn't be in this shape. 

That little car that was totaled was in perfect mechanical shape with really low mileage. We had just put a set of new tires on it. They gave us $2600 for the car, we have spent that plus a few more thousand trying to get a car in the same shape the wrecked car was. I am really close now....I really hope we are.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Rockauto gave my money back on the converter and I applied the money to a store credit. I ordered a different brand that costs more. Rockauto does have a good customer service and they answer the emails quickly. I was supposed to get the new converter yesterday but I figure with all the online ordering that is going on now, they were kinda over loaded with deliveries. Hopefully it will be here today.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

I usually get my RA orders a day or two before they estimated.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

huesmann said:


> I usually get my RA orders a day or two before they estimated.


I usually get them early also, I guess Fedex was just swamped with online orders this time.

I got the converter this afternoon, got it back on and will do some driving out in the sticks tomorrow and see if it spits a code. So far it is doing good. 

This was a much better looking unit, it was professionally manufactured. All the holes for the heat shields even lined up perfect on this one. I checked the flange and it was way way better than the other two, not perfect but well within specs.

I will report how it goes this time. I really do appreciate all you guys.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I got my toes ( those that I have left) crossed in hopes that this travesty is over.

A lesson learned.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> I got my toes ( those that I have left) crossed in hopes that this travesty is over.
> 
> A lesson learned.
> 
> ...


You and me both buddy, I need to watch what I wish for from now on. I told my wife that I wish I could build just one more engine. Not any more do I wish that. lol Just the rebuilding part was fun, it is everything else that I hated. I have sure learned a lot on this one though and still learning. It amazes me that anything this blame touchy can even run to start with. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I can't believe it, that dad blame check engine light is back on after all this time. Same dern code P2A00 which is in bank 1 upper 02 sensor. Several things can cause this code, the last time it was an exhaust leak and I replaced the main catalytic converters three times. I haven't checked if there is an exhaust leak yet but I will when it quits raining again.

I am at the point of installing a dummy 02 sensor which will bypass the 02 sensor and keep the ECM from throwing a code, this is crazy. Anyone tried this?


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

BigJim said:


> I can't believe it, that dad blame check engine light is back on after all this time. Same dern code P2A00 which is in bank 1 upper 02 sensor. Several things can cause this code, the last time it was an exhaust leak and I replaced the main catalytic converters three times. I haven't checked if there is an exhaust leak yet but I will when it quits raining again.
> 
> I am at the point of installing a dummy 02 sensor which will bypass the 02 sensor and keep the ECM from throwing a code, this is crazy. Anyone tried this?


 Go for it.
And maybe you've made believers of some that didn't believe we need to be a throw away society because of circumstances.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)




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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

BigJim said:


> I can't believe it, that dad blame check engine light is back on after all this time. Same dern code P2A00 which is in bank 1 upper 02 sensor. Several things can cause this code, the last time it was an exhaust leak and I replaced the main catalytic converters three times. I haven't checked if there is an exhaust leak yet but I will when it quits raining again.
> 
> I am at the point of installing a dummy 02 sensor which will bypass the 02 sensor and keep the ECM from throwing a code, this is crazy. Anyone tried this?


Upper O2 is usually the one that helps with the fuel trim tables. The downstream one just verifies that the converter is working.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Neal, that would be wonderful but we have way too much in the blame thing to get rid of it now. The engine runs smooth as silk now and the car drives great except for the stumbling when it warms up and that dad blame code. 

I read where they make a chip that can be installed in the 02 sensor plug that sends an electrical impulse back to the ECM to fool it so no check engine light comes on and the car won't go into limp mode. 

I finally got the motor mounts worked out and everything else is great except for this code. I have until July to get the car where it don't throw a code or we can't re tag it, it has to pass inspection or no tags.


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

1. This is a code for slow response of the air fuel ratio sensor. Monitor the fuel trims to determine if there is a fuel mixture problem. Maybe it is running too lean, causing the sensor to be lazy. 

2. Monitor the rear oxygen sensor activity as well. Some ECMs compare the activity of the rear sensor to the front sensor and could set a code for the front sensor, when the rear one is the bad one. 

3. Check for exhaust leaks.


Clear the self learn control after any repair.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> 1. This is a code for slow response of the air fuel ratio sensor. Monitor the fuel trims to determine if there is a fuel mixture problem. Maybe it is running too lean, causing the sensor to be lazy.
> 
> 2. Monitor the rear oxygen sensor activity as well. Some ECMs compare the activity of the rear sensor to the front sensor and could set a code for the front sensor, when the rear one is the bad one.
> 
> ...


Thanks BB, I will be checking today, I hope. One thing that is standing in the back of my mind is the ECM. I am wondering if this ECM could be tuned to the SE R Spec V engine and this being an Altima engine. They are both 2.5 engines but the Altima has smaller rods, a 4 counter weighted crank and a different set up for the cams. The SE R Spec V engine has a 8 weighted crank, beefed up rods and high compression pistons and a different set up for the cams. 

There isn't a lot of difference in the compression ratio 9:1 vs 10:1. I have thought about trying to find an Altima ECM but the down side is it would have to be for an Altima with a 6 speed straight stick and those are as scarce as hens teeth, if they even exist, I haven't found one yet. Another down side is who ever built this engine before me mixed Spec V parts with Altima parts. The heads are SE R Spec V heads, most of the rest is Altima except for maybe the pistons, the pistons in this engine are popup.

The Altima lower oil pans are made different from the Spec V block, the Spec V oil pan configurations have a set back at the balance shaft, the Altima don't. That is what caused me a ton of problems trying to get the engine to clear everything. I finally got close to where the engine doesn't hit anything but everything is still really close. The lower 02 sensor on the #1 bank is so close to the fans it is unreal. If that lower rear mount ever gets more than a 1/4 inch slack in it that 02 sensor is toast. 

I hope to go out and hook the shop vac exhaust to the tail pipe and pressurize the exhaust to see if there is a leak...again. I actually hope it is, that would be an easier fix with one of the super thick gaskets. The bad thing is having to get that heat shield to move out of the way to see the flange of the manifold. A lot has to be moved to just get to that shield. Always something.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I pressurized the exhaust system today and the same place is leaking again like it did on the other three exhaust manifolds. I put a straight edge across the flange on this one and it was a little off but I figured it would work. Well it didn't it is leaking big time. Check out the photo, that is soapy water to check for a leak, see the bubbles big time.

I am not going to send this converter back, it doesn't make any difference if I get another one or not. There is an extra thick aluminum header gasket made for imperfect headers, I hope to get one of those and give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Now all sing along 

" gloom despair and agony on me, 
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all." :devil3:

Don't get mad, I too feel your pain, and frustration. 

Danged world won't give a guy a chance sometimes. 

That big of a leak, you should hear it a bit, and it sure would monkey with those sensors.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Now all sing along
> 
> " gloom despair and agony on me,
> If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all." :devil3:
> ...


Buddy it would take a whole lot more than that to make me mad. Dealing with this car, I am bullet proof. lol

I have looked and can't find one of the thick aluminum exhaust gaskets that will fit the 2008 SE R Spec V 2.5 engine. Anyone have a link or suggestion where I could order one?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Buddy it would take a whole lot more than that to make me mad. Dealing with this car, I am bullet proof. lol
> 
> I have looked and can't find one of the thick aluminum exhaust gaskets that will fit the 2008 SE R Spec V 2.5 engine. Anyone have a link or suggestion where I could order one?


 I have had to resort to using 2 of the usual steel core fiber coated gaskets in slightly warped headers to get a seal. 

Have you checked with J.C. Whitney, they carry many oddities, for foreign "rice rockets"?

ED


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Remflex.
http://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/27.htm


The material is soft and thick and squeezes down nicely.



.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

123pugsy said:


> Remflex.
> http://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/27.htm
> 
> 
> ...


Something like this would be my next suggestion.

You do know how to make your own with a small ball peen, don't you?

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

123pugsy said:


> Remflex.
> http://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/27.htm
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Pugsy, that would work, they are kinda proud of their materials aren't they. lol

Ed, I didn't think to check J.C. Whitney, they would probably have one. As for the ball peen hammer deal, I have done that many times. I hadn't though about that one in ages though.

I just checked rockauto, their prices are hard to beat anywhere. I have already wasted 4 or 5 gaskets at around $20 each, I should have checked rockauto first. The same brand name and number gasket that I paid $20 for at local auto store, rockauto has the exact same gasket for $4.88. While that gasket won't work they have another one that might work if I put two gaskets on. The fel-pro has a fiber outside with aluminum inside, two of those might work.

You can bet I won't put everything back on this time until that leak is stopped. I will pressurize the exhaust system while I tighten the manifold. I can see any leak that way.

Just a thought, is there a high heat silicone that can handle the heat of the exhaust manifold? If there is maybe I could use a good coat of the silicone between and each side of the gaskets to seal that leak.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Yeah us old techs have made many gaskets that way.

There used to be something called Muffler Patch, that you could apply with a paint brush.

That also worked as a sealant for pesky manifold leaks.

I have not seen it in a while, but that's because I ain't doing much of that stuff anymore. :devil3:


ED


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Pay now or pay later.....
You can double two firm gaskets and get the same result.
There in no silicone that can handle the heat.


I found the sample I got at a car show a few years back.
Looks like a full 1/8" thick. The ends will squeeze while the center, not as much but sealed.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Now that would work for sure, thanks again Pugsy. I did try something different today, I have two of the aluminum gaskets so I bought some of the high heat copper gasket making stuff today, I sandwiched some of the copper stuff between the two aluminum gaskets and snugged it down, tomorrow I will go ahead and torq it on down and see if that will work.

It is a real task to leave the shield off and fire the car up and run until full warm. Let cool off then retorq but I think that is what I need to do. It is not a simple thing to get that shield off, it takes quite a bit of work but maybe it will pay off. I will pressurize the exhaust on the final torq to see if it will stop the leak.


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## Nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Now that would work for sure, thanks again Pugsy. I did try something different today, I have two of the aluminum gaskets so I bought some of the high heat copper gasket making stuff today, I sandwiched some of the copper stuff between the two aluminum gaskets and snugged it down, tomorrow I will go ahead and torq it on down and see if that will work.
> 
> It is a real task to leave the shield off and fire the car up and run until full warm. Let cool off then retorq but I think that is what I need to do. It is not a simple thing to get that shield off, it takes quite a bit of work but maybe it will pay off. I will pressurize the exhaust on the final torq to see if it will stop the leak.


Copper and aluminum in contact????:surprise:


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Nealtw said:


> Copper and aluminum in contact????:surprise:


As long as it does not have an electric charge flowing through it, it will be fine. 

When they are together and conducting electricity is when it is not a good idea, the flow of electricity is a passing of electrons from one to the other, and in that case there are not enough in one to fill the space in the other, which causes the decay.

So no electric current , no problem.


ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Or you could take it to a machine shop and have them machine it flat. I have put high heat red silicone on the exhaust gaskets to seal them when I worked at a engine exchange place. Just a thin film but it doesn't last but it got the job out. I was young then.:vs_cool:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not sure there was actually any copper in this stuff, I couldn't see anything that looked like it was. I think the color was the reason they called it that. Could be wrong though.

BB, I was hoping that since I put the copper stuff between the two aluminum gaskets, then just snugged it up over night so it would conform. Then today remover the gaskets and trim the excess off the inside so it don't get sucked into the cats, then torq them down it may work. 

I called a place here and asked of they could surface the flange but they said they didn't know if they could or not. If this stuff I put on last night doesn't work, I will take it to a machine shop somewhere. This has gone beyond crazy, I have had this thing off 6 or 7 times now, I am wearing the bolts out. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I didn't post when I got a code this time because so many problem post. The good part is I found the problem. This is weird, the code this time said 02 sensor and the downstream sensor. I pulled the sensor to test the heater. The heater wires are two wires of the same color. I was pulling the protective sleeve downward to see the wires. Two inches down inside the sleeve there was a cut wire...bingo...

How in the world that wire got cut is impossible, the sleeve was not damaged at all. If the wire had been cut after it was installed that sleeve would have some kinda mark on it, there is none. This 02 sensor is only about two months old and I have had codes the whole time it has been installed. So far so good, no codes, none pending.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Jim: I have a theory about those mysteriously broken wires. 

Sometime in the past there was a lot of tension put on that wire, and it stretched to it's breaking point, but the sheath covering it did not break, leaving it looking great.

Over time the broken wire made contact, but would occasionally separate and break the circuit, long enough to throw a code, then back to continuity, until the next time.

Leaving me chasing ghosts. 

I have seen it happen , not often, but it has happened to others as well. 

I hope that this solves all the problems for this "MONGREL" car that you bought.

ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Ed, that was a cut, it wasn't stretched. It looked like it had been cut with a pair of side cutters/***** what ever you want to call them. That is what has me buffaloed, I could understand if it was stretched but it wasn't.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

_It seems as if at one point in time it was in a very unscrupulous shop._


It reminds me of our teen son that took his car into a tire / alignment shop for tire repair. For some reason it always needed an alignment after a tire repair visit. After twice i put a screeching halt to that BS.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Ed, that was a cut, it wasn't stretched. It looked like it had been cut with a pair of side cutters/***** what ever you want to call them. That is what has me buffaloed, I could understand if it was stretched but it wasn't.


I understand what you are saying, My theory is based on experience from being asked by a buddy why after he pulled an engine , and replaced it with a fresher one, and it would not start afterward. 

I was trying to help him get it going, and while there was asking what all else he had done, and during the talk , he mentioned not disconnecting the ignition wire to the coil, until after raising the engine 6" , and seeing the wire stretch. 

So I tested it and there was no continuity, but wiggle it a bit there was.

stripped the wire and it had broken the inner wires, but left the insulation intact, and the outside looked perfect, but the inner looked cut by *****. 

Rewired it with a butt connector, it ran.

So the only thing that had happened was a dummy mistake , not disconnecting everything. 


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> I understand what you are saying, My theory is based on experience from being asked by a buddy why after he pulled an engine , and replaced it with a fresher one, and it would not start afterward.
> 
> I was trying to help him get it going, and while there was asking what all else he had done, and during the talk , he mentioned not disconnecting the ignition wire to the coil, until after raising the engine 6" , and seeing the wire stretch.
> 
> ...


Man that was unreal that you found that wire like that, I would have been still looking. I think that wire on my 02 sensor was like that when I bought it. It is strange that you mentioned the wire being stretched where it broke. I noticed when my engine fired up the top motor mount would shake like crazy. I use wire tie ties to secure wires and hoses away for heat or what ever would mess it up. I always made it a point to make sure there was enough slack so the wire or hose would be ok.

One time I did cut a wire on another 02 sensor that is in the same place this sensor is in. When I put the fans back in, they were so close they hit that 02 sensor and I broke a wire but it was right against the sensor. I had to replace that sensor and this one where the wire was cut is the replacement sensor I put in.

The wire was cut about two inches from the plug inside the insulated sleeve. No way I couldn't have cut that wire without cutting the sleeve. Where the plug is, is no where close to the bottom of the fans. Oh well, how ever it got cut, it is fixed now...until next time. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Here is the latest and hopefully the last on this dern car. I have had two more codes since I posted last time but I didn't post because I have whined so much already. lol So far the exhaust manifold gasket is holding on. I did get a code on that same 02 sensor so I tested it and sure enough, it was bad.

Bought a new one and put it in, bought a new set of fuel injectors, not the cheap ones. While I had the intake off I could get to the knock sensor so I flipped it so it is on backwards now.

I finished up this morning and drove about 40 miles. It is unreal how much different the car is now. Smooth as silk, no stumbling at all and the increase in power is amazing. Before we were getting 14-16 miles per gallon, now were are getting 30 miles per gallon. Sure makes me a happy camper.

Keeping fingers cross that it is finally running like a champ.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

That's terrific. Well deserved after what you've been thru on this project. 

Enjoy your cruising.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

123pugsy said:


> That's terrific. Well deserved after what you've been thru on this project.
> 
> Enjoy your cruising.


Thanks buddy.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Great.


Us stubborn old coots win in the long run, these young "I want it now" kids don't know nothing about perseverance. :devil3:

Everything that I got that can be crossed, is hoping this is a done deal for you.

A dozen Krispy Kremes, is in order to celebrate.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Great.
> 
> 
> Us stubborn old coots win in the long run, these young "I want it now" kids don't know nothing about perseverance. :devil3:
> ...


Thanks Ed, I really appreciate all your help. Judy and I will hopefully take a shake down cruise up to the Smokies soon and see how it does on the road for a good ways. There is a good donut shop up there also. lol


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

That's great!!! Mission accomplished. It makes me happy when I solve a problem child. I know your happy! By the sound of it, it's fixed. The smooth running engine and fuel mileage. I'm happy for you.:vs_box:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brainbucket said:


> That's great!!! Mission accomplished. It makes me happy when I solve a problem child. I know your happy! By the sound of it, it's fixed. The smooth running engine and fuel mileage. I'm happy for you.:vs_box:


Thanks BB, I really do thank you for all your help on this problem car. It has sure been a learning experience for me. Like I have said before, I have the highest of respect for a mechanic or tech as you guys are called now days.

Now to stop the oil leak in our 2003 Pathfinder. At least it hasn't thrown a code...yet.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

One son and his wife drive a Altima. When they stated it was getting 30 MPG i thought, boy did some salesman blow a bunch of smoke. Dad was wrong again.:vs_mad:Except for expensive head lamps they love the Altima.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Thanks BB, I really do thank you for all your help on this problem car. It has sure been a learning experience for me. Like I have said before, I have the highest of respect for a mechanic or tech as you guys are called now days.
> 
> Now to stop the oil leak in our 2003 Pathfinder. At least it hasn't thrown a code...yet.


Oil leaks are either a front seal, rear seal, or valve covers.

But you know that.

Except for those pesky GM porous blocks, that leak from day one, right through the block wall.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Oil leaks are either a front seal, rear seal, or valve covers.
> 
> But you know that.
> 
> ...


The oil leak on the Pathfinder is the valve cover gaskets. It is a 3.5 engine as in the photo everything on top of the engine has to come off just to get to the blame things. But it is just a matter of doing on this job. Take a ton of photos and check to see if there is anything I should or should not do before I start.

The little car that the tanker totaled was a 2000 Altima and was really low mileage. That little car was perfect mechanically. The only thing wrong was the paint was fading. It has taken me all this time to get this SE R Spec V Hines 57 in the same shape the Altima was in. Blame insurance should have to replace the car just like it was before the wreck.

Here is the Pathfinder engine.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Back in the good ole days sometimes a failed PCV caused a leak. At one time i checked the vacuum at the dip stick tube using a home made manometer of clear plastic tubing. In more modern times i find it difficult to even find a recommended vacuum to go by.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I didn't think about checking to see if there is excessive blow by, that is a really good idea. I will check that. I do know I am loosing enough oil that it is on the rear hatch of the truck from leaking and blowing back there. If the PCV valve is stopped up, that could sure cause oil to blow out.

I put a catch can on the Spec V just in case there is any blow by, it is caught in the can instead of going into the combustion chamber. The more junk I can keep out of the catalytic converters the better I like it.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> The oil leak on the Pathfinder is the valve cover gaskets. It is a 3.5 engine as in the photo everything on top of the engine has to come off just to get to the blame things. But it is just a matter of doing on this job. Take a ton of photos and check to see if there is anything I should or should not do before I start.
> 
> The little car that the tanker totaled was a 2000 Altima and was really low mileage. That little car was perfect mechanically. The only thing wrong was the paint was fading. It has taken me all this time to get this SE R Spec V Hines 57 in the same shape the Altima was in. Blame insurance should have to replace the car just like it was before the wreck.
> 
> Here is the Pathfinder engine.


Holy OVERSTUFFED compartment. Jim.

Give me the old days when; on the first car that I ever bought; a 1954 Ford Business coupe. 

I was 10 at the time, and I could climb in the engine bay, stand on the ground and change the spark plugs. 

There was so much room in there. It was an inline 6 ; 235 cu.in. I think. 


Incredible the amount of junk they add to vehicles now, just be able to not do regular tune-ups. 

Properly tuned, and maintained, those old cars would be as efficient and non polluting, as the modern, computer controlled stuff.


ED


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

de-nagorg said:


> Holy OVERSTUFFED compartment. Jim.
> 
> Give me the old days when; on the first car that I ever bought; a 1954 Ford Business coupe.
> 
> ...


Ed I have seen the old 1950 flathead 6 running so smooth and it was idled so low you could see the fan turning. I had a 54 Ford, I loved that car, remember the outside oilers back then? We had to put them on our old Fords because the cam bearing was so loose it turned and stopped the oil spit hole up.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

12:20 AM? Damn, Jim, don't you ever sleep? ;-0


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

raylo32 said:


> 12:20 AM? Damn, Jim, don't you ever sleep? ;-0


Not much. lol about 5 hours a night is it for me. It was 3 am before I hit the sack this morning. With my bad back I can't sleep in a bed or I haven't the last year or a little over. In the recliner about 5 hours is it for me. :smile:


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

My body clock has always been the opposite. I am usually in bed by 9:30. But agree about the recliner. When my back goes out or when I had broken ribs or shoulder surgery that was the only place I could get any rest at all.



BigJim said:


> Not much. lol about 5 hours a night is it for me. It was 3 am before I hit the sack this morning. With my bad back I can't sleep in a bed or I haven't the last year or a little over. In the recliner about 5 hours is it for me. :smile:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Well, I am back again. I had a lot and I mean a lot of trouble with the catalytic converter/manifold on our 2008 SE R Spec V Sentra 2.5 engine. I rebuilt that engine a year ago and like to have never got the exhaust manifold to stop leaking. I finally put two aluminum gaskets and it held out of a year. Now I have a slight leak again and have two months to fix before inspection or I can't renew our tags. Does anyone know where I can buy a thick gasket that will seal. The flange on the manifold is ever so slightly unflat. I want to do this one time and be done with it. Any suggestions?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Well, I am back again. I had a lot and I mean a lot of trouble with the catalytic converter/manifold on our 2008 SE R Spec V Sentra 2.5 engine. I rebuilt that engine a year ago and like to have never got the exhaust manifold to stop leaking. I finally put two aluminum gaskets and it held out of a year. Now I have a slight leak again and have two months to fix before inspection or I can't renew our tags. Does anyone know where I can buy a thick gasket that will seal. The flange on the manifold is ever so slightly unflat. I want to do this one time and be done with it. Any suggestions?



Are you adept at making your own gaskets with a ball peen, and hundreds of "TAPS"? 

Parts stores used to sell thick header gasket material, in blanks, that we made our own with. 

As you know HEADERS warp easily, and often leak.

ED


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

Not to mention premature failure of the input shaft bearing.


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## 123pugsy (Oct 6, 2012)

Hi Jim.

I have used nothing but homemade gaskets using this Felpro material.
No leaks or failures.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks fellows, that is good information. What if I go with a Fel Pro fiber gasket as it does kinda conform to slight dips. Then add a steel gasket that has the pronounced ridge around each port. I figure maybe put the steel gasket on first so the ridge around the port is pressed into the fiber gasket, maybe it will seal. What do y'all think?


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Thanks fellows, that is good information. What if I go with a Fel Pro fiber gasket as it does kinda conform to slight dips. Then add a steel gasket that has the pronounced ridge around each port. I figure maybe put the steel gasket on first so the ridge around the port is pressed into the fiber gasket, maybe it will seal. What do y'all think?



Worth a try.

Gotta be better than Aluminum, it burns out fast it seems.

ED


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## Brainbucket (Mar 30, 2015)

Maybe a thick header gasket?


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## NitrNate (May 27, 2010)

Gaskets I used to use were similar to that Fel-Pro but had an aluminum or soft steel veneer on both sides that helped conform everything to the two mating surfaces. I remember having a header gasket with a leak in one of the cylinders on an old ford mustang that drove me nuts and finally replaced the gaskets and worked great. I can't remember what brand the gaskets were it's been so long since I did that job.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

If it's really far out of flat, I would be tempted to try 2 of the premade gaskets, possibly with a bead of the black silicone gasket maker stuff in between. I've had pretty good luck with carefully applying the black silicone to the gasket. If you know where the wider gaps are, applying a thicker bead to those areas should do the trick. When using the silicone, I usually snug the bolts, then back them off a turn, let it set for 3-4 hours, and then tighten them.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Now get this, we drove the car today and so help me Hannah, the check engine light went off. I went through several manifolds before trying this one. I flattened the flange pretty good until the belt broke on my horizontal sander. I was within 10 thousands of having it perfectly flat. I never guessed that little could cause a leak. I could be mistaken about how much it was out of true, CRS ya know. (can't remember stuff)


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Well, so much for that, the dern check engine light came back on today. It felt like the engine might have a slight miss to it. I have new coils on the way so I hope that takes care of that. I know it isn't the injectors or plugs, they are new. Also I know it isn't the knock sensor I turned it around backwards so it wouldn't pickup any noise. I know it isn't the 02 sensors, I replaced all 4 of them, it isn't the FAS sensor, it is new. cam and crank positioning sensors, new. All sensors are new, all that is left is exhaust leak or coils. I did a smoke test, no vacuum leaks. Oh well, I was hoping anyway.


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## HotRodx10 (Aug 24, 2017)

BigJim said:


> Well, so much for that, the dern check engine light came back on today. It felt like the engine might have a slight miss to it. I have new coils on the way so I hope that takes care of that. I know it isn't the injectors or plugs, they are new. Also I know it isn't the knock sensor I turned it around backwards so it wouldn't pickup any noise. I know it isn't the 02 sensors, I replaced all 4 of them, it isn't the FAS sensor, it is new. cam and crank positioning sensors, new. All sensors are new, all that is left is exhaust leak or coils. I did a smoke test, no vacuum leaks. Oh well, I was hoping anyway.


You need a code reader to find out what DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) caused the check engine light to come on. Most auto parts stores will put the reader on it for you (or hand you one and instruct you how to do plug it in yourself and bring it back to them), and tell you what DTC's were set, and the common causes for them.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

HotRodx10 said:


> You need a code reader to find out what DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) caused the check engine light to come on. Most auto parts stores will put the reader on it for you (or hand you one and instruct you how to do plug it in yourself and bring it back to them), and tell you what DTC's were set, and the common causes for them.


Thanks HR10, I do have an analyzer but I don't remember what it said, I did find a leak in the exhaust and know even a slight leak of any kind will make it spit a code. I do remember the code machine did suggest several things. I will hook it up again and see what it says before changing out the coils and then take another one after installing coils.


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