# Backer for glue-up tub surround?



## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

It's well-known that drywall should not be used as a tile backer in the tub/shower area and that CBU (concrete backer board) should be used instead. I don't really want the maintenance headache of tile though, so I'm considering a glue-up tub surround for my bathroom remodel.

In theory, drywall backer for a glue-up surround will "work" as the acrylic/fiberglass/polystyrene surround "should" be 100% waterproof. However we all know that caulk seams fail, and that the failure might go unnoticed for some time, and that re-caulking isn't always done in a timely manner. 

Hoping to "improve" on the situation, I'm considering wrapping the bottom edge of the drywall with a 6" strip of tar paper so that, should the caulk seam between the surround and the tub deck fail, moisture cannot rise into the drywall. Although this does not address vertical seam failures, vertical seams don't typically have near the problems as the horizontal tub-surround interface.

Thoughts?


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Just use Green or Purple board. Nothing special needed.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

A lot of the surrounds are a no caulk surrounds, and you can caulk for piece of mind. Also a lot of them are direct to studs.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

1985gt said:


> A lot of the surrounds are a no caulk surrounds, and you can caulk for piece of mind. Also a lot of them are direct to studs.


I like the idea of no-caulk. I saw some of those, but the ones I saw appeared to require a matching brand of tub. My tub is a Jacuzzi Primo 60x32". Is there such a thing as a universal caulk-less surround?


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

Yours looks to be just a drop in tub, no lip that is turned up on 3 sides?

It does not look like Jacuzzi makes surrounds. I bought my wife a Lyons heated soaking tub when we redid our bathroom and bought the matching surround. While I would have rather have done tile, it works well for right now and quicker to install.

There should be a universal one, but the tub would need a up turned lip on the 3 walled sides.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Get a nail on surround not a glued on.
Far thicker and just does not look as cheap.
Get's attached directly to the studs with drywall at the top and sides.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

1985gt I think the Primo comes in both tile-flange and drop-in flavors. I have the flanged version with the skirt on the entry side. 

The direct-to-stud surrounds I'm seeing are $350 and up, compared with $70 for the glue up (though the extra drywall and tubes of adhesive do add a bit to the cost). If I still have to caulk the direct-to-stud surround, then it just seems like my extra $250 isn't buying me anything. 

If anyone can recommend a 32" caulkless direct-to-stud surround that will work on a Jacuzzi Primo though, I'm all ears.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

http://www.menards.com/main/bath/bathing/surrounds/elite-trade-60-x-32-x-59-corner-shelf-3-piece-bathtub-wall-kit/p-1871229-c-5883.htm

This is the one I used, or similar anyway. Went up easy, do not need to caulk (I did anyway it's a few bucks.) Thicker then the glue up ones although you still have to adhere it to the studs with caulking.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

1985gt said:


> http://www.menards.com/main/bath/ba...3-piece-bathtub-wall-kit/p-1871229-c-5883.htm


Awesome! Now that's more like it! Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

Darn it. 

"If your Lyons wall is used on a bathtub/seated base other than a Lyons, it will be necessary to caulk all seams and between the wall panels and the bathtub/seated base"


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

tylernt said:


> Darn it.
> 
> "If your Lyons wall is used on a bathtub/seated base other than a Lyons, it will be necessary to caulk all seams and between the wall panels and the bathtub/seated base"


I'm sure it is a CYA thing. Lyons has no idea what kind of tub you are putting it on. For all they know someone is putting it on a tub without a flange. 

FWIW, the lyons tub we bought has like 3/4" flange up the walls, not a whole lot. I caulked it anyway I mean it's one tube of caulk.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

1985gt said:


> FWIW, the lyons tub we bought has like 3/4" flange up the walls, not a whole lot.


So there's no special interlocking system on the tub? Is there a gasket or does the surround just lap the flange and depend on gravity to keep water out of the stud bay?

Thanks for being patient with my questions 1985gt. I appreciate it.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Some have a foam gasket at the seams where the pieces fit. Others you have to run a bead of clear Silicone to seal the sections, so no water or steam gets behind it.

How much room do you have to maneuver a tub with single piece Surround section? Is the drywall still down where the doorway is? Is this on the main, basement or upstairs?

Post pictures of the hallway and bathroom.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

Single story ranch house. Bathroom is down to studs, but the 30" doorway is still framed in. Once in the bathroom, the tub is parallel to the entry door so no rotation needs to take place. But to get to the master bath I have a 36" wide hallway with a 90° corner to navigate, which could be troublesome. You have a single-piece surround in mind?

I watched the installation video for the Lyons brand surround, and I don't see any reason why installing it on a non-Lyons tub would require caulk. The Lyons tub just has a simple flange like mine. I couldn't really see the back of the surround panels very well though, so I don't know exactly what surprises I might encounter if I take the risk to actually buy them. My flange might not be as tall or thick as the Lyons which could leave a gap that moisture could get through. I understand that caulk will solve this but if I have to maintain a caulk bead, I might as well get the far cheaper glue-up surround.

Or maybe I can just run generic weatherstripping along my flange to avoid caulking...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

You would have to stand the tub on end, and take the wall out that is where the entry door for the bath is. Not the first, nor last time someone has had to do that, to get a tub into a bathroom.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

Not sure I follow, I just bought my shiny new Jacuzzi Primo tub so unfortunately, returning it and getting a 1-piece whirlpool tub+shower is not terribly attractive at this stage.

For me the deciding factor is caulk maintenance, I don't really care about the visual look of glue-up vs direct-to-stud. My last house had a glue-up and I never knew that anything different existed until now. So if I have to re-caulk every 6-18 months, I might as well get the cheap glue up. But caulkless would be worth paying extra for...


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

To get that Jacuzzi tub in there, means removing the wall that the Bath door is in, just enough of it, to get the tub in there, while standing it on end. That means using Foam and a furniture dolly.

Then you just lift and keep turning until you can get it into where you can slide it into place. Also may mean removing drywall on both sides of the wall, so you can have a way to lift and lower into place.

As for the Surround, same thing. The two & three piece units make it easier to get through tight hallways.

As for re-caulking, that is only if you do a bad job the first time. You can go to a local place that does bath's and talk to them about how the seams are kept water tight. They can show you a unit or should be able to find a mfg video on Youtube.

You are going to have to destruct a little with bringing in a Jacuzzi tub, because they are heavier and deeper than standard tubs.


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## 1985gt (Jan 8, 2011)

tylernt said:


> So there's no special interlocking system on the tub? Is there a gasket or does the surround just lap the flange and depend on gravity to keep water out of the stud bay?
> 
> Thanks for being patient with my questions 1985gt. I appreciate it.


The sides had gaskets the bottom was just the over lap. 

FWIW get about two extra people help you set that tub. Ours is a deep 22" soaker and it took two guys and one below to get everything lined up and dropped in. The guy below made sure the piping didn't get messed up. 

I honestly hope to never have to go through that again. Next time it will be a normal sized tube! Or there will not be any walls in the bathroom.


FWIW good caulking should last years not months. I use NP-1, it's harder to keep clean especially when the bead thins out at the edges, but it's 10X better then silicone in a tub IMO.


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## tylernt (Jul 5, 2012)

Our well water here is high in iron, so my white caulk turns rusty red over time. I'll check out NP-1.

Thanks 1985gt!


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

The red is usually just a bacteria reaction that happens with all water. Iron looks like rusted metal.


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