# Adding on concrete patio with pavers



## pattatat

First post here, looks like a great site.

I'm looking to expand my back porch. Its just too small at 8'x10'.
It's a concrete porch and my plan is to expand it on one side by 5' and then expand away from the house 5' and probably put a curve on that end.
My plan was to keep the concrete and just add the paver section.
What do I need to look out for doing it like this?
Can I expect to be able to get my bricks to line up level with my porch?
Any tips are appreciated.
This is in north Texas and in heavy clay.
Pics below, I have some free time at work with AutoCAD...


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## pattatat

planned layout


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## pwgsx

You will want a good even base of compacted sand / paver mix, then when setting the pavers, use some play sand and add/ remove as need to to make level. Brush sand between the cracks when done.


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## TarheelTerp

pattatat said:


> Can I expect to be able to get my bricks to line up level with my porch?


And stay that way? No... not really.


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## 95025

pattatat said:


> First post here, looks like a great site.
> 
> I'm looking to expand my back porch. Its just too small at 8'x10'.
> It's a concrete porch and my plan is to expand it on one side by 5' and then expand away from the house 5' and probably put a curve on that end.
> My plan was to keep the concrete and just add the paver section.
> What do I need to look out for doing it like this?
> Can I expect to be able to get my bricks to line up level with my porch?
> Any tips are appreciated.
> This is in north Texas and in heavy clay.
> Pics below, I have some free time at work with AutoCAD...


Below is a picture of the paver patio, I built around our covered back patio, a couple years ago. I think it's the same concept you're looking for, but on a larger scale.

You're going to want a 4"-6" base of coarse rock for your substrate. I used 3/4"+ crush run lime, which packs down extremely hard, and eventually sets almost like concrete.

You'll need a couple inches of fine sand on top of that - spread evenly and (almost) level.

Lay your paver bricks atop that, in whatever pattern you wish.

Spread fine sand atop the bricks, work it in with a shop broom, run a vibra-pack over it, and repeat the process.

*The key is to get the substrate packed well, and the sand smooth and sloped _slightly_ away from the house. The rest is details...












This is what the patio looks like, after my wife went to work on it.


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## KevinPh

Even when a professional tamps the soil with a roller or a tamper, some settlement usually does occur. You might try placing the pavers one-quarter inch above the concrete so that when it settles, it will be level. However, this is risky in case no settling occurs. It might be better to just lay the patio flush, tamp like crazy, and hope for the best.


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## 95025

KevinPh said:


> Even when a professional tamps the soil with a roller or a tamper, some settlement usually does occur. You might try placing the pavers one-quarter inch above the concrete so that when it settles, it will be level. However, this is risky in case no settling occurs. It might be better to just lay the patio flush, tamp like crazy, and hope for the best.


My personal opinion is that he'd be better off just laying the pavers 6" or so lower than the level of the poured concrete. It is a natural step down, and the exact level becomes less critical. 

As you say, it's inevitable that some settling will occur.


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## concretemasonry

The 4"-6" base should be compacted with a vibratory plate compactor and the slope should reflect the desired slope for drainage (if any is desired).

The sand (concrete sand) setting bed should be a UNIFORM 1" thickness to maintain the slope (if any) created by the base grade. The sand setting bed should never be compacted before the pavers are set. Greater or variable thicknesses can allow the paver to "float" or be unstable even if you have a well compacted base. After the pavers a set 1/4" or so high with tight joints and fine sand (masonry sand) is spread, vibrate the surface with a vibratory plate compactor to even out the surface and force the fine sand into the joints, plus draw up the concrete sand to create the structural interlock and stability of the paver surface.

Do not omit the edge restraint that is always required for decades of stability.

That is the typical method used for heavy duty paver surfaces that carry much heavier loads than a casual patio.

Dick


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## pattatat

Thanks guys..

1. So, I can't get away with a hand tamper? I have to get a powered vibatory tamper?

2. My yard slopes away from the porch quite a bit. About 6' out the ground is already a foot lower than the patio. My initial plans were to build a wall around thet perimeter of the porch with the retaining wall blocks stacked on a few inches of the base grade, then filling all of that in with more base. And the paver bricks would lay over the retaining wall on the edges. Anything wrong with this approach? I guess I'm not sure how I would secure the pavers on the perimeter with this approach since I won't be able to use the standard plastic edging nailed into the ground.

I would rather not put a step in this if possible because of the size of the table that I have, it would not be in a good place.


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