# deck surface to door threshold...ideal height??



## Sampson

Hi all, I'm in the process of installing a (2nd floor)deck under an existing slider. The slider threshold is sitting directly on the floor. Is there an ideal height for the step up into the house from the deck??...obviously it can't exceed the 7 3/4" (or whatever it is) maximum step height, and has to be such that my ledger board is hitting my "box", but can it be too close to the slider threshold???....any thoughts anyone??

Sam


----------



## Michael Thomas

Please fill in your location in your user profile so that we can give advice appropriate for your location.


----------



## Sampson

Sorry Michael, I'm in Connecticut. I'll get the profile completed asap. As far as I know, Connecticut's code is silent on the issue as long as I don't exceed the maximum step height?? 

Thanks in advance if you can help, I was hoping to get my ledgerboard on tomorrow:confused1:

Sam


----------



## Ron6519

Why do you need to have any step down?


----------



## Sampson

I didn't know if a short drop was desirable over none for snow accumulation up to door, "trip hazard", or anything like that. Are they typically installed *right* up under the threshold..?


----------



## Ron6519

Sampson said:


> I didn't know if a short drop was desirable over none for snow accumulation up to door, "trip hazard", or anything like that. Are they typically installed *right* up under the threshold..?


I've build a few dozen decks. Customers always wanted to walk straight out onto the deck. I can't remember building any with a step down.
Most of them did not use the doors too much, if any, in the Winter.


----------



## Michael Thomas

My concern when asked about location was ice and snow buildup against the sliding doors which are typically installed to access the deck.

When I'm inspecting for leaks or deterioration at "sliding patio doors" to decks, balconies and patios here in Chicago I see many instances of leakage through and around the door assembly and/or rotting doors due to extended contact with snow and ice. The problem is often aggravated because deck builders often do not understand how to properly flashed such openings, especially when these locations involve the ledger flashing as well.

IMO, in winter climates like my own the best solution is to have a step up from the deck to the door; however as noted above many homeowners would prefer that these be on the same level (and from a convenience and perhaps even a safety standpoint this is desirable) but it's a construction detail that just begs trouble from a water intrusion standpoint.

If you must have patio doors on the same level as the deck, a correct pan flashing underneath the door assembly becomes critical, and this is a detail that is typically not met specified by door manufacturer (usually just to specify that installation be local code requirements).

The example below illustrates the general concept, the flashing itself can be the metal, self-adhesive membrane, or combination of the two, but it needs to start with an upturn behind the door assembly, extend under the door, and then turn down with an appropriate drip edge.

An effective end dam is also required at both ends of the flashing, the illustration below shows the end dams above the window head flashing, but the general concept is the same for sill flashing as well.


----------



## Gary in WA

If it’s an escape door- instead of an egress window:
*R311.3.1 Floor elevations at the required egress doors.* Landings or floors at the required egress door shall not be more than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold. 

*Exception:* The exterior landing or floor shall not be more than 7-3/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold provided the door does not swing over the landing or floor. 

When exterior landings or floors serving the required egress door are not at _grade_, they shall be provided with access to _grade_ by means of a ramp in accordance with Section R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.7.
From: http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec011_par003.htm

If a* secondary* (non-egress) door: 
*R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors.* There shall be a *landing or floor on each side* of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. Exterior landings shall be permitted to have a slope not to exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent). 

*Exception:* Exterior balconies less than 60 square feet (5.6 m2) and only accessible from a door are permitted to have a landing less than 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. From: codes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_sec011_par002.htm

Gary


----------



## Michael Thomas

The OP described it as " a (2nd floor) deck under an existing slider", so even if this is egress door the "swing" exception noted in GRB's post above kicks in:

_ "The exterior landing or floor shall not be more than 7-3/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold provided the door does not swing over the landing or floor."_, 

This exception is why one of the standard fixes for the problems I see with slider or inward opening doors sills level with exterior balconies or porches (usually at newer construction condos) here in Chicago is to raise the door 6" inches.

This is often not as difficult to fix as it sounds, because these doors are usually also lacking sill pans, so you're going to have to pull the door anyway.


----------



## woodworkbykirk

having the deck at the same height as the door is just a recipe for disaster.. its impossible to properly flash the deck and the door opening. wind driven rain is much more likely to get up and inside. and in the winter months snow and ice will get it as well

i keep a differnce of 3" between the deck ledger and the under side of the door threshhold.. i have a specifici detail i use for the deck ledger and the trim which is hard to describe... anyhow the ledger goes on the wall first then it gets flashed.. from there the door rough opening gets a drip pan which overlaps the deck ledger flashing. at that point i install a peice of azeck flatstock under the door thresh hold which supports the door and nullifies having to put a narrow strip of siding under the door. been doing this for a few years now, no issues with it and meets code.


----------



## Gary in WA

Give a call to your local Building Inspector. They enforce minimum safety standards.

If the slider is in a bedroom with no windows for egress, it can be lower. If an egress window is present, ask the AHJ.

If the slider is in any room other than a bedroom, and you have the required (egress) front door, you should not lower the deck or raise the door for safety reasons. Depends on local jurisdictions, as Michael said they allow in Chicago.

Best to ask your B.D. as we can only site the minimum Code. You H.O. Insurance carrier may not honor a future claim if not to code....

Here is attaching a ledger, flashing, etc. on a deck: http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

What room is the slider in?

Gary


----------



## Sampson

Thanks for all of the input guys, I ended up with a 3 1/2" drop out of concern for snow buildup and the potential for seepage in the Winter.:thumbsup:


----------



## ben's plumbing

we always had a drop of 4" for snow and ice buildup and always seemed easier to flash...good idea..ben


----------

