# Recessed Lighting above shower



## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

Are there any electrical codes that would prevent me from installing a recessed light above my shower? Is there a specific type of trim I would need to buy for use in damp conditions?


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## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

cooper4x4 said:


> Is there a specific type of trim I would need to buy for use in damp conditions?


I can't be sure about how high the ceiling needs to be above the shower (someone will chime in about that soon).

Yes, there are special trims for shower locations. Examples:
http://www.junolighting.com/product_detail.asp?ino=2186&Sel_Id=1740&brand=1
http://www.junolighting.com/product_detail.asp?ino=2151&Sel_Id=1742&brand=1

Make sure you find out if a shower trim is available with the particular recessed housing you're looking at. Not all housings have compatible shower trims. My electrician prefers Juno recessed housings.

Good luck


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## amakarevic (Apr 12, 2007)

http://www.elights.com/halo70ps.html


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## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

I found this on the interweb (http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters.php?action=display&letterID=397) which states that the luminaire zone doesn't apply to recessed lighting. Is this correct? Could I install a normal recessed light above the shower? 

I have seen the shower trim lights and do not like the appearance of them.


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## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

Your local codes will override anything else. Maybe talk to your local inspector or building code department. For everything I've seen, you MUST have a shower trim over a recessed light within a tub/shower enclosure with an 8' ceiling. Doesn't really matter how it looks, your goal is not to have anyone electrocute themselves.


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## Ash (Aug 1, 2008)

The light should be rated for the said moisture level. I think >= IP65 or maybe >= IP55 is whats needed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

The graphic you posted is excellent. As it shows, you can install a recessed light in the ceiling above your shower. The article further states:

Luminaires located in bathtub and shower zone must be listed for damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to shower spray.


Normally in the ceiling, the damp location fixture is acceptable.


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

Any local hardware store that sells recessed lighting should also have a cover rated for over the shower or wet location use. The one in my basement bathroom is basically a simple all plastic cover.

Ash, just a forewarning, don't link to wikipedia articles on the forums here, its highly frowned upon here...


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## Minh Tam Nguyen (Jul 31, 2008)

I have a comment with the type for bath room: if it is recessed in the ceiling you just need the luminaires with have glass cover or prismatic cover and it must be: 
-Minimum IP 54= Splash-proof (Splashing water from any direction shall have no harmful effect)
-IP 65 = Jet-proof (Water protected by a nozzle from any direction shall have no harmful effect (Nozzle diameter 6.3 mm, pressure 30 kPa)
-Max IP 66 = Jet-proof (Nozzle diameter 12.5 mm, Pressure 100kPa)
-And I think no need to choose greater IP because it is so expensive:whistling2:. 
Ofcouse we need a RCCB for this line. :yes:


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## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

Minh Tam Nguyen said:


> I have a comment with the type for bath room: if it is recessed in the ceiling you just need the luminaires with have glass cover or prismatic cover and it must be:
> -Minimum IP 54= Splash-proof (Splashing water from any direction shall have no harmful effect)
> -IP 65 = Jet-proof (Water protected by a nozzle from any direction shall have no harmful effect (Nozzle diameter 6.3 mm, pressure 30 kPa)
> -Max IP 66 = Jet-proof (Nozzle diameter 12.5 mm, Pressure 100kPa)
> ...


RCCB?


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

Minh is located in VietNam and I suspect it was supposed to be RCD which stands for Residual Current Device basically its equivalent to our GFCI Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. I may be wrong but I don't believe its required by the NEC to put the bathroom lighting on a GFCI, though because this is above a shower it might be. Someone else will chime in I am sure and give their opinion or state some code here....


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## jrclen (Feb 20, 2008)

You are correct theat. Unless the manufacturer requires the GFCI, and some do for their shower lights. But the NEC does not.


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## theatretch85 (May 17, 2008)

jrclen said:


> You are correct theat. Unless the manufacturer requires the GFCI, and some do for their shower lights. But the NEC does not.


Ah, right forgot that little bit about "if the manufacturer requires it" Thanks John. 

I have seen some installs were a DIY'er (I assume) had run the power into the GFCI and then out to the lights and fan so that the whole bathroom is protected by the GFCI outlet. Problem is if the GFCI trips for some reason, your completely in the dark (unless you happen to have a window in your bathroom). Most often a GFCI will trip on something that is plugged into the outlet, not from a light or fan (though it is possible, but rare).


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## Minh Tam Nguyen (Jul 31, 2008)

Dear all, 
First of all I really sorry because I typed a mistake word in last message: "comment..". My idea is "recommend ..." :huh:.

RCCB (Residual Current Circuit Breaker) is the same meaning RCD.
"High sensitivity 30 mA RCD (for example differential load switch type ID’clic) on
circuits to bathrooms, shower rooms, laundry rooms, etc. (lighting, heating, socket
outlets)"
This is suitable with IEC 60364-7. I intend attached the file for you but it is bigger size than max size of attached file. How can I send it for you cooper 4x4?​


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

Ash said:


> The light should be rated for the said moisture level. I think >= IP65 or maybe >= IP55 is whats needed
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code


Some of the stuff in these documents looks like a specification for a chastity belt.
:laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Minh Tam Nguyen said:


> RCCB (Residual Current Circuit Breaker) is the same meaning RCD."High sensitivity 30 mA RCD (for example differential load switch type ID’clic) on
> circuits to bathrooms, shower rooms, laundry rooms, etc. (lighting, heating, socket
> outlets)"
> This is suitable with IEC 60364-7. I intend attached the file for you but it is bigger size than max size of attached file. How can I send it for you cooper 4x4?


This is all very nice of you, but since you are in Asia, and the OP is in (I assume) the US, what purpose will it serve???


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## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

Ok, I did some more research and from that and what I have read on here, I need to get a recessed fixture that is damp rated. The trim doesn't necessarily need to be shower trim as long as the fixture is damp rated.


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## fw2007 (Jul 11, 2007)

I am very surprised that NEC does not require GFCI for light above shower. I would use one anyway, but would not put it on the same circuit as the general bathroom lighting.
I guess if there is a minimum height restriction, then it's understandable, if no one can touch the fixture while in the shower.
My basement bathroom has such a low ceiling I couldn't put a light in the shower if I wanted to<g>.

FW

p.s. Why is it frowned on to put links to Wikipedia?


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## chris75 (Aug 25, 2007)

fw2007 said:


> I am very surprised that NEC does not require GFCI for light above shower. I would use one anyway, but would not put it on the same circuit as the general bathroom lighting.


So whats wrong with the equipment ground bonded to the fixture that you feel the need for GFCI protection? Its a waste of money, and the whole gfci and general lighting scenario just cracks me up... Do all you people have emergency lighting in your homes in case you have a power outage?


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## angus242 (May 1, 2008)

cooper4x4 said:


> Ok, I did some more research and from that and what I have read on here, I need to get a recessed fixture that is damp rated. The trim doesn't necessarily need to be shower trim as long as the fixture is damp rated.


I sure hope your reading had to do with the local building codes in your area. It's your local municipality that overrides anything else. I still say, just call them.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

chris75 said:


> So whats wrong with the equipment ground bonded to the fixture that you feel the need for GFCI protection? Its a waste of money, and the whole gfci and general lighting scenario just cracks me up... Do all you people have emergency lighting in your homes in case you have a power outage?


At some point the risk is down in the noise, and your chance of dying is eventually 100.000%. 

My chance [and that of all the males in my high school class] of dying within 22 years is 50%.

5000 people dying per year from food poisoning is usually down in the noise unless it's makes the papers.

But I don't think the GF or AFCI vendors are too eager to stress risk-tradeoffs.

Would there be a fuss if two jumbo jets (1000 people) crashed every single day, for years? Well, if I have my stats right the same number of people die from smoking related causes every single day, but their deaths are not in plain sight.

Have you ever read of someone in the paper who died from electrocution, and they said it was because they got a shock that a GFI could have prevented? 

Or how 'bout because they had no AFCI, and there was a fire that was started by an arc that an AFCI might have detected, and someone died?

Fear, uncertainty and doubt can sell a lot of products. 
A lot.
http://www.amazon.com/unSpun-Findin...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218141891&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Guide...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218142458&sr=1-1


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## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

angus242 said:


> I sure hope your reading had to do with the local building codes in your area. It's your local municipality that overrides anything else. I still say, just call them.


my city has adopted the 2006 NEC Code


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

cooper4x4 said:


> my city has adopted the 2006 NEC Code


There is no 2006 NEC.


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## cooper4x4 (Jul 10, 2008)

sorry about that, I meant the 2005 NEC

*AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF COPPELL, TEXAS *​ *ORDINANCE NO. 2007-1166 *​ *AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF COPPELL, TEXAS AMENDING THE CODE OF ORDINANCES BY AMENDING CHAPTER 15 
ARTICLE 15-2 TO ADOPT THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, 2005 EDITION, AS THE CITY OF COPPELL ELECTRICAL 
CODE; PROVIDING AMENDMENTS TO THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, 2005 EDITION AND ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS; 
PROVIDING A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE; PROVIDING A REPEALING CLAUSE; PROVIDING A SAVINGS CLAUSE; PROVIDING 
A PENALTY FOR VIOLATION OF THIS ORDINANCE NOT TO EXCEED THE SUM OF FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500.00) FOR 
EACH OFFENSE; EXCEPT HOWEVER, WHERE A DIFFERENT PENALTY HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BY STATE LAW FOR SUCH 
OFFENSE WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF ANY PROVISION OF LAW THAT GOVERNS FIRE SAFETY, ZONING, OR PUBLIC 
HEALTH AND SANITATION, INCLUDING DUMPING OF REFUSE, THE PENALTY SHALL BE A FINE NOT TO EXCEED 
THE SUM OF TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS ($2,000.00) FOR EACH OFFENSE; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. *


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