# New humidifier install



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Aprilaire is one of the best rated units.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Seems that Aprilaire is all over, so that was the one I was gravitating towards...

Are the Aprilaire 400 units that pull water back in and supposedly hold no real water good?
I don't want a reservoir with sitting water, these seemed intriguing...




> _The Aprilaire Model 400 Whole-House Humidifier features a built-in bypass damper and utilizes new evaporative technology to minimize water use. Gravity pulls water down, while the wicking action of the Water Panel ® draws it back to the top, using 100% of the water delivered to the unit. The Aprilaire Model 400 Whole-House Humidifier:_
> 
> 
> _Features truly automatic control_
> ...


----------



## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

I would be like you. I would not want water sitting in a reservoir. It is bad enough, when you have to spend 10 to 15 min's cleaning a floor/portable room humidifier of the red ****, and slime.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Definitely get the flow through type. Reservoir type will always become a mess. Look at Aprilaire model 700.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

What are the differences between the 600 and the 700? There only seems to be a 200 sq ft difference in available coverage, but it looks quite different...

This is where I will be putting it:


----------



## veesubotee (Nov 22, 2008)

Joe Dirt said:


> What are the differences between the 600 and the 700? There only seems to be a 200 sq ft difference in available coverage, but it looks quite different...


The 700 is a self-powered unit, i.e., it contains its own 'blower' . The 600 is a bypass unit. It does not contain a blower and 'steals' some airflow from the supply side. It can be mounted on either the supply or return side, and has a duct connecting it to the other side. 

If you have a modulating furnace (or other), which runs mostly in medium to low blower speeds, it could be a problem.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

veesubotee said:


> The 700 is a self-powered unit, i.e., it contains its own 'blower' . The 600 is a bypass unit. It does not contain a blower and 'steals' some airflow from the supply side. It can be mounted on either the supply or return side, and has a duct connecting it to the other side.
> 
> If you have a modulating furnace (or other), which runs mostly in medium to low blower speeds, it could be a problem.


 
get the 600, you dont need the power assist.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Ah ok- that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that!


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I am a fan of the self powered units like the 700. Much neater install since you don't need to run the bypass duct (which also means no cutout in the return duct) and you don't affect your overall system CFM. It may be small but on the bypass type whatever air goes through the bypass detracts from overall system flow. You do need to plug the 700 into a 120v outlet, however, so if you don't have one handy you will need to install one... or just go with the 600.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

The 700 is for application that don't have the return located right next to the furnace, such as a counterflow in a tight closet. The 700 are much louder, and much harder to service.....the pictures that you provided show me as clearly as a new piece of glass :thumbsup: that the best humidifier in THAT situation is the 600.You also can use the same drain as you are currently using for your A/C.Also be sure to locate the humidistat at least 1 ft above the humidifier.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Harley I would beg to differ on "best". Slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing, each with a couple of minor differences. Bypass will reduce your duct airflow by the bypassed amount. The powered unit does make a little fan noise, that may or may not be an issue depending on where the util room is located. Just comes down to which tradeoffs work better for the person. Both have the same solenoid valve an will use exactly the same drain setup.

One thing I would have to strongly disagree is about 700 being hard to service. Changing the media pad takes about 30 seconds... maybe a minute if you really take your time. Lift the plastic tab and the whole outer housing comes right off exposing the media pad. No bypass duct in the way. You don't have to mess with anything else at all. A minute tops. Maybe some work if the fan ever breaks but mine is going on 5 years with nary an issue. Just a new media pad every year. Can't get any easier than that.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

The 700 is designed for a very specific applications......joe dirts application is NOT what the design engineers had in mind when they designed that unit. I have installed thousands of humidifiers in the last 30 years, I think I know whats best in ANY given situation, you are at best confusing the client with a redundant argument. I value your input on this discussion board but in this case you are just flat out wrong in even suggesting that a power assist humidifier be used.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have had all types myself and installed them all myself. I value your opinion, too, but just installing a bunch of humidifiers doesn't make you an engineer. I am one. And I am not recommending one type over the other, merely pointing out the differences so the OP can decide what is most important to him.... and reporting my excellent operational experience with the 700 model. Best humidifier I have ever had by far. As they say, YMMV. I am sure the 600 will be every bit as reliable, too, maybe even more so since it has no fan. Not an issue for me. If mine breaks a fan after 10 years I'll consider it good service and fix it or get a new one.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

> but just installing a bunch of humidifiers doesn't make you an engineer. I am one.


Well, that sure explains alot......I am done with this thread, I think the client has a very clear picture of what he needs for his situation.


----------



## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Indeed... either way he'll have a good result. And I agree with your sig. That explains a lot, too.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks for the spirited discussion, guys... 

I'm probably going to order a 600 at this point and see where that puts me.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Thanks for allowing us to help you, I hope that you were not led astray by any misguided information.The 600 will serve you well, remember to change the evaporator pad every fall, and keep the in line strainer and nozzle clean.Also its a minute amount of air, but remember to close the by-pass in the summer during A/C operation.Most important of all is to mount the humidistat in the return duct at least 1 ft above the humidifier.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Nope- I was looking for some good input, and the discussion helped, because they are all questions that I would have probably asked anyhow in trying to figure out the purchase.

I'll let you know how I'm doing, and I'm sure there will be a question or 2 that pop up during install... Always are...


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm ordering, and unsure if I also need the #50 current sensing relay- any way to tell from here if I need it? Not sure if it's as simple as a "furnaces built after xxxx will have the necessary hookups" or not...


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

no, we will use the transformer that comes with the humidifier


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks harleyrider!


----------



## garya505 (Oct 9, 2009)

FWIW I measured the current draw on a Aprilaire solenoid switch at about 170 mA. Not sure why you would use a separate transformer just for the humidifier, unless your current system doesn't have one!


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

garya505 said:


> FWIW I measured the current draw on a Aprilaire solenoid switch at about 170 mA. Not sure why you would use a separate transformer just for the humidifier, unless your current system doesn't have one!


Because it's included with the unit and thats how they intend it to be powered, If your furnace has a 24 vac humidifier terminal Then thats a good option B.


----------



## garya505 (Oct 9, 2009)

harleyrider said:


> Because it's included with the unit and thats how they intend it to be powered, If your furnace has a 24 vac humidifier terminal Then thats a good option B.


Yup, it can be done either way. Many thermostats can supply 24v for a humdifier, using power from the furnace or AH transformer. 170mA on top of whatever else it is powering isn't much.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

I'll have to take a peek and see what this thing has on it... Thanks!


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

I've been following Joe Dirt's thread because he asked the same question I was going to right before I did, and everyone's responses have been great. I went with the Aprilaire 600 also, but during the install, I noticed something I thought was odd. There is already an 8" duct connecting my supply plenum to the return plenum with a damper in it (on the supply side) about 3/4 closed. While I'm no HVAC expert, I don't ever recall seeing a return and supply connected like that, except in the case of a bypass humidifier. 

My current system did have a Herrmidifier 707 installed, but by the looks of it, that thing has not worked in years. Although, I did find it odd that it was installed on the return plenum, and the discharge is almost directly across from the above-referenced duct (my recollection is that most of those were installed on the supply side). Is it possible that someone was effectively trying to create a bypass system before such a thing really existed? Of course, that does not make a lot of sense to me as I assume the mist would be heavy and being discharged into the cold air return would not readily "bypass" the furnace and go through the mystery duct and into the supply plenum, but maybe there are some physics that would make it work.

Regardless, unless someone tells me there is a real reason for that mystery connection between the return and supply to be there, I am going to either use the old cutouts for the new Aprilaire with a 6" reducer on the supply plenum and mounting the evaporator portion on the return side by overlaying the template on top of the existing 8" hole). 

If there is a good reason for it to be there please let me know, and I will just leave it alone and install the unit and connect on the plenums opposite of the mystery duct is. If that duct does have a purpose and should be left alone, any thoughts on why the damper (which is not adjustable from the outside any longer because it was sealed in place with mastic by PO) is set 3/4 open, and is that right, or should I reach through and open or close it further while I have the hole open on the other side?

I hope that made some sense, and I hope Joe Dirt's running into fewer mysteries than I am while doing this today. Apologies in advance if this is one of those really obvious things everyone should know.

Thanks!


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

ctcole said:


> I've been following Joe Dirt's thread because he asked the same question I was going to right before I did, and everyone's responses have been great. I went with the Aprilaire 600 also, but during the install, I noticed something I thought was odd. There is already an 8" duct connecting my supply plenum to the return plenum with a damper in it (on the supply side) about 3/4 closed. While I'm no HVAC expert, I don't ever recall seeing a return and supply connected like that, except in the case of a bypass humidifier.
> 
> My current system did have a Herrmidifier 707 installed, but by the looks of it, that thing has not worked in years. Although, I did find it odd that it was installed on the return plenum, and the discharge is almost directly across from the above-referenced duct (my recollection is that most of those were installed on the supply side). Is it possible that someone was effectively trying to create a bypass system before such a thing really existed? Of course, that does not make a lot of sense to me as I assume the mist would be heavy and being discharged into the cold air return would not readily "bypass" the furnace and go through the mystery duct and into the supply plenum, but maybe there are some physics that would make it work.
> 
> ...


Here is a humidifier that I just installed the other day.....

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3060fc7ffb3b6d570042ee19e8cd34e0&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diychatroom.com%2Ff17%2Fhumidifier-install-101-joe-dirt-125364%2F&v=1&libid=1323024519046&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photobucket.com%2Fhumidifierinstall&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diychatroom.com%2Ff17%2Findex3%2F&title=HUMIDIFIER%20INSTALL%20101%20(for%20Joe%20Dirt)%20-%20HVAC%20-%20DIY%20Chatroom%20-%20DIY%20Home%20Improvement%20Forum&txt=www.photobucket.com%2Fhumidifierinstall&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13230245524992



and the thread that goes with the pictures
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/new-humidifier-install-124869/


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

I haven't run into any difficulties yet-



-because my humidifier hasn't arrived in the mail yet. 

Now I'm following your convo, ctcole! 


harleyrider- your link above links to this thread... But that is an interesting buck!


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Joe Dirt said:


> I haven't run into any difficulties yet-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


got him 2 years ago.....quite a story behind that picture :thumbup:

try this link

http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/humidifier-install-101-joe-dirt-125364/


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Awesome!

What was step #2?


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

Apparently, I should not have requested expedited shipping if I wanted to follow Joe Dirt instead of leading....

I'm still hoping to hear back from anyone regarding my post #27 about the mystery air duct. Any thoughts? I am still at a loss regarding its purpose. It seems somewhat self-defeating for me to bypass and discharge the newly humidified air into the supply plenum and for that newly humidified air to just go through the mystery duct and back into the return without going out into the house. I know that would only be a small portion of the air, but still, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

By removing the mystery duct, I can reuse those openings for the new install, and the humidifier equipment will actually be in a more convenient location for servicing, etc., so that would be a win-win. Of course, if the mystery duct is serving a real purpose, then I will leave it be.

Thanks.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Joe Dirt said:


> Awesome!
> 
> What was step #2?


what happen there was i had to delete 2 pictures.....only allows 10 photos in one post so i had to delete a couple pictures.......then for some strange reason it still dident post the pictures.....step 2 just showed the mark on the duct were the humidifier was going to go.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

ctcole said:


> I've been following Joe Dirt's thread because he asked the same question I was going to right before I did, and everyone's responses have been great. I went with the Aprilaire 600 also, but during the install, I noticed something I thought was odd. There is already an 8" duct connecting my supply plenum to the return plenum with a damper in it (on the supply side) about 3/4 closed. While I'm no HVAC expert, I don't ever recall seeing a return and supply connected like that, except in the case of a bypass humidifier.
> 
> My current system did have a Herrmidifier 707 installed, but by the looks of it, that thing has not worked in years. Although, I did find it odd that it was installed on the return plenum, and the discharge is almost directly across from the above-referenced duct (my recollection is that most of those were installed on the supply side). Is it possible that someone was effectively trying to create a bypass system before such a thing really existed? Of course, that does not make a lot of sense to me as I assume the mist would be heavy and being discharged into the cold air return would not readily "bypass" the furnace and go through the mystery duct and into the supply plenum, but maybe there are some physics that would make it work.
> 
> ...


 The only thing that i can think of is that you have a zone system and thats a dump zone.......


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

Would there ever be a reason for a dump zone without other zone dampers? There is no automatic or manual way to control airflow to different rooms or zones except at the registers in the individual rooms and none of those are fully restricted at any time. I thought you only used dump zones to relieve pressure when some zones are restricted. While I would like true zone control, we don't have that. Is it possible for the system to be too big and even when all vents are opened there is too much pressure and thus the need for this constant dump? That doesn't make sense to me but maybe that is the case. If you installed a system and then checked pressure and temps maybe there would be a reason to have this constant dump. I will have someone that knows more than me look into that because I don't have the equipment to check internal pressure and temps. In the meantime, I will leave it be and just install the humidifier on the other side. If it's determined the system does not need the dump zone, the I can always have that closed further down the road. Thanks for the input.


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

I made a couple of calls and looked at a few more things online regarding the mystery bypass duct. The consensus was (based on the fact we did not have zones) that it was installed to either resolve an issue with the coils freezing up or to alleviate some kind of noise that the system created when the pressure was too high. Most people thought it was probably the former because we have a 2-story house with a significant temperature differential between the 2 floors. The best guess is the former owners tried to solve the temperature problem by shutting all the vents on one floor, but that created the pressure build-up, which was resolved with the bypass. In all likelihood, the manual damper was forgotten about, and since the system worked a little better and was not freezing up, no one bothered to adjust it seasonally. We resolved most of that temperature disparity already with some insulation and windows, so I am not sure the bypass is even needed anymore.

At this juncture, I think I will just leave the mystery bypass in place and close the damper, open the room vents and see what happens. If it seems like we are having a pressure issue going forward, then I will install a barometric damper in-line. Other than waiting for the coils to freeze up when the AC is coming back on or listening for strange noises, is there any other way to easily determine whether there is too much pressure being built up with the bypass damper closed?

Now, back to humidifiers, which is really where I have wanted to be the last couple of days--my humidifier bypass will discharge into the supply plenum directly across from the mystery duct opening. Will having the discharge opening directly across from the mystery duct's closed damper cause me any issues? If I end up having to install a pressure damper, then will the humidifier bypass have enough pressure coming from it to artificially influence the pressure damper if it's mounted directly across from it. If so, could I move the pressure damper somewhere in the middle of the mystery duct to resolve any issues?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts, and apologies for getting a little off-track on a humidifier thread. Hopefully it will be back to humidifier install tonight with everything wrapped up by the end of the week.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

ctcole said:


> I made a couple of calls and looked at a few more things online regarding the mystery bypass duct. The consensus was (based on the fact we did not have zones) that it was installed to either resolve an issue with the coils freezing up or to alleviate some kind of noise that the system created when the pressure was too high. Most people thought it was probably the former because we have a 2-story house with a significant temperature differential between the 2 floors. The best guess is the former owners tried to solve the temperature problem by shutting all the vents on one floor, but that created the pressure build-up, which was resolved with the bypass. In all likelihood, the manual damper was forgotten about, and since the system worked a little better and was not freezing up, no one bothered to adjust it seasonally. We resolved most of that temperature disparity already with some insulation and windows, so I am not sure the bypass is even needed anymore.
> 
> At this juncture, I think I will just leave the mystery bypass in place and close the damper, open the room vents and see what happens. If it seems like we are having a pressure issue going forward, then I will install a barometric damper in-line. Other than waiting for the coils to freeze up when the AC is coming back on or listening for strange noises, is there any other way to easily determine whether there is too much pressure being built up with the bypass damper closed?
> 
> ...


 can you mount the humidifier on the return instead of the supply......they work much better on the return.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

This is awesome- I got the filters in the mail today, but still need the humidifier. That should be here tomorrow. In the meantime, any possible question I think I might have is still being answered...  Keep it up!


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

The humidifier will be mounted on the return. I had the air flowing the wrong way in my head when I asked the last question. If anything, the humidifier bypass will lower the pressure on the supply side and not increase it. I had to be looking at it to realize my mistake. 

Thinking out loud here--if I close the damper on the existing bypass deduct and find out the pressure is ok in winter when humidifier bypass is open but pressure is high in summer when humidifier bypass is closed, couldn't I just open the humidifier bypass but turn-off the water and power to the humidifier and see if that solves the pressure problem? Keep in mind that the damper on the existing bypass can only be opened and closed from inside supply plenum because previous owner sealed the controls with mastic and I don't want to try to free them up. So, by using humidifier bypass to dump extra pressure instead, I don't have to get back to the inside of the supply plenum to adjust the other damper from the inside. Is there any reason from a wear and tear standpoint on the humidifier not to try that first and see if it solves any pressure issue? It doesn't seem like it would cause any problem to have air flowing through with the humidifier and water off (and maybe remove water evaporator tray to further increase air flow). While the humidifier bypass is only 6" and the current bypass is 8" or 10", the current bypass damper is currently 3/4ths closed so a wide-open 6" seems like it would be close to the current amount being dumped by the larger existing duct. 

Based on that same logic, it would seem that I could actually remove the existing bypass and just put the humidifier and 6" bypass in its place, which means less holes to cut, and I assume I can get a reducer to take the existing 10" hole and reduce that to the 6" for the humidifier on the supply side and the the 10" hole on the return is smaller than the humidifier opening, so I would just overlay the template on that on cut out the remainder for the humidifier to fit. Can you adjust the humidifier damper with any precision, or is it simply opened or closed?

Just trying to figure out the best way to make lemonade here and hopefully end up with a more efficient system overall.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

ctcole said:


> The humidifier will be mounted on the return. I had the air flowing the wrong way in my head when I asked the last question. If anything, the humidifier bypass will lower the pressure on the supply side and not increase it. I had to be looking at it to realize my mistake.
> 
> Thinking out loud here--if I close the damper on the existing bypass deduct and find out the pressure is ok in winter when humidifier bypass is open but pressure is high in summer when humidifier bypass is closed, couldn't I just open the humidifier bypass but turn-off the water and power to the humidifier and see if that solves the pressure problem? Keep in mind that the damper on the existing bypass can only be opened and closed from inside supply plenum because previous owner sealed the controls with mastic and I don't want to try to free them up. So, by using humidifier bypass to dump extra pressure instead, I don't have to get back to the inside of the supply plenum to adjust the other damper from the inside. Is there any reason from a wear and tear standpoint on the humidifier not to try that first and see if it solves any pressure issue? It doesn't seem like it would cause any problem to have air flowing through with the humidifier and water off (and maybe remove water evaporator tray to further increase air flow). While the humidifier bypass is only 6" and the current bypass is 8" or 10", the current bypass damper is currently 3/4ths closed so a wide-open 6" seems like it would be close to the current amount being dumped by the larger existing duct.
> 
> ...


basicly yes to both questions.....


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

It's here! I'm almost in the game...


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks, harleyrider. I think I will remove the existing bypass and put the humidifier and new bypass in its place and then adjust accordingly when it's time to turn-off the humidifier in the Spring. Do you recommend that I remove the water evaporator when I shut-down the water and power to the humidifier controls if the bypass is left open during the summer to relieve the pressure? Thanks again for all your input.

Good luck with everything, Joe Dirt. I went ahead and installed the humidity sensor control last night, since the issue with the bypass did not have any impact on where it was getting mounted. I did a rough external wiring job and hooked up the water and power, and then sat the humidifier level on a bucket to make sure everything worked. It all seemed to pass muster and appeared operational at least the water was flowing, but no airflow because it was not hooked up to anything with pressure. So, it's just a matter of running the permanent wires and actually installing the humidifier and bypass in their final locations. The only thing I did not test was having the humidifier come on with the blower motor. At this point based on what I have read, I am only planning to have it come on when the furnace itself is on, but if that is not keeping the humidity levels up and constant, then I will decide on whether or not to have it pump in moisture during the recirculation (blower only) cycles. Of course, it was all a little more complicated because it has been raining the last few days and the return air is fairly humid. I had to increase the desired humidity level significantly to get it to actually call for the water, but it finally came on. Hopefully I can get the rest of it knocked out tonight and cross one more thing off my "to do" list.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

> Thanks, harleyrider. I think I will remove the existing bypass and put the humidifier and new bypass in its place and then adjust accordingly when it's time to turn-off the humidifier in the Spring. Do you recommend that I remove the water evaporator when I shut-down the water and power to the humidifier controls if the bypass is left open during the summer to relieve the pressure? Thanks again for all your input.


Only if its necessary then i would remove it.....other wise change it every fall


----------



## garya505 (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm not intending to hijack this thread but I have a quick question. What do you like to use on the humidifer water line where there is a chance of cold temps along the path of the water line? The humidifier itself is safe, as it gets heated from the bypass air from the furnace, but where the water line goes it could be a lot colder at times. I know it's a small chance, but I'd like to be sure it can never freeze.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

garya505 said:


> I'm not intending to hijack this thread but I have a quick question. What do you like to use on the humidifer water line where there is a chance of cold temps along the path of the water line? The humidifier itself is safe, as it gets heated from the bypass air from the furnace, but where the water line goes it could be a lot colder at times. I know it's a small chance, but I'd like to be sure it can never freeze.


Thats a good question......never had that situation pop up......I guess heat tape like they use and mobile home water lines......


----------



## garya505 (Oct 9, 2009)

harleyrider said:


> Thats a good question......never had that situation pop up......I guess heat tape like they use and mobile home water lines......


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So, I did a little digging and found what seems to be the most recommended by pros - Frostex. The heat cable is sold by the foot and there's a connector kit with a built-in GFI. 
This was funny, the place I found that had it online is a few miles from my house. That's a first. Picked it up during my lunch break today.
www.mhparts.com
Frostex 9800 Power Connection Kit w/GFI $15.60
Cable is sold by the foot but they don't show the price per foot on the web site. You gotta call to ask. It's $2 per foot.


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

I am about to install the Aprilaire 600. I think I can handle most of the installation with helps here. I have a Traine XE80 model furnace and without instruction manual. Do anyone know where can I find the humidifier terminal?


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

on the board in bottem of furnace where your low voltage wiring goes


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

I think I found it. is it a single terminal about 1/4 inch wide labeled HUM-H?


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

*where should the two red wires connected to?*

I think I get almost everything exception the red wires in the pics. Since I can not connect to the blower, where should that go? Thanks.


----------



## MisterTFM (Dec 11, 2011)

?????

Tried to delete my post, but can't figure out how.

Didn't want to post the wrong info.


----------



## garya505 (Oct 9, 2009)

Paul.le said:


> I think I get almost everything exception the red wires in the pics. Since I can not connect to the blower, where should that go? Thanks.


R and C are 24 VAC power. You can wire these into the furnace R and C or use the transformer included with the 600A. I have the Aprilaire 400 and mine is powered from the furnace. The controller probably doesn't take much current. I think Aprilaire really only includes the transformer in case you don't have one near the humidifier. The Aprilaire solenoid (water valve) only draws like 170mA (I measured it) so I think using another transformer is somewhat silly unless wiring to the furnace transformer is difficult. 

Just make sure to power down the furnace when you wire.


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

paul.le said:


> i think i found it. Is it a single terminal about 1/4 inch wide labeled hum-h?


 make sure that its not 120vac or you will fry your humidistat and you valve. Post a picture of your furnace circut board before you proceed !!!!!


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your help. I completed the job smoothly. It has been working since last night.


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

@Harleyrider,

I have two furnaces up and down stair. Is installing one will be enough or i need a small up for upstair? i just install the Aprilaire 600 downstair and upstair is about 1000 square feet.


----------



## Paul.le (Dec 12, 2011)

MisterTFM said:


> ?????
> 
> Tried to delete my post, but can't figure out how.
> 
> Didn't want to post the wrong info.


 
just edit it and clear out the text


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Paul.le said:


> @Harleyrider,
> 
> I have two furnaces up and down stair. Is installing one will be enough or i need a small up for upstair? i just install the Aprilaire 600 downstair and upstair is about 1000 square feet.


couldnt hurt,youll just have 2 humidistats to adjust


----------



## MisterTFM (Dec 11, 2011)

Paul.le said:


> just edit it and clear out the text


Won't let me post a blank message, it gives me an error message:

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Ok guys, I dind't forget about this, nor did I finish the job and disappear. 

I just today started getting to the install, and I've gotten everything done but the wiring, which just, well, freaks me out a little bit. Not because I don't do wiring, I can handle that- I just don't want to fry something on the humidifier or the humidistat, and have to go through the hassle of replacing them.

Here is what I have under the furnace:










I assume that HUM terminal is where the w/g go?

I've also read to go R to R on the board, jump C-CF on the humidistat, and wire that to C on the board?

I have to verify that the board is 24V...

TIA!


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

Use the h terminal for power.
run a 2 conductor low voltage wire(normally a red and white)to the humidistat ,i normally use the red wire as power then use the white wire as basically a low voltage switch leg back to the solenoid valve to power it up.
then run a white wire back to the c-terminal of furnace board to complete the circuit.
depending on where you mount the humidistat i sometimes change the 4 conductor wire going from furnace to stat to a 6 conductor from a point below floor joists back to furnace,then use the extra 2 wires for the humidifier controls.
Im sure somebody will come along with a fancy picture before Im done typing all of this with one finger! :laughing:


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm cornfused now- I thought I was using the R terminal for power?

I'd like to put the humidistat upstairs on the main floor rather than in the basement, so can I just run a shielded 6 conductor wire from there down?

Thanks for the fast reply!

Someone feel free to slap a picture up! :laughing:


----------



## plummen (Jan 10, 2010)

The r terminal is constant 24v supply for thermostat,the h terminal should have power to it only when thermostat is calling for heat


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Joe Dirt said:


> I'm cornfused now- I thought I was using the R terminal for power?
> 
> I'd like to put the humidistat upstairs on the main floor rather than in the basement, so can I just run a shielded 6 conductor wire from there down?
> 
> ...


If you put the humidistat in a room, it will only be sensing that room, if you mount it on the return it senses a mixture of air from all over the house, thats why we call it a whole house humidifier. as far as power to the humidistat, the easiest way i can explain it is as follows.....start at hum go from there in series to the humidistat then to the solenoid and back to C on the low voltage strip.


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

plummen- thanks for the clarification on that, I think I have it now. Need to go pick up some wire at the hardware store so I can continue wiring. One thing about moving- I have no idea where some of my stuff is yet... 

harleyrider- ok, I never though of it that way... It'll be going on the return. Thanks hr- wouldn't be attempting this without your help!


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

Everything is in and running, I'll snap some pics and post up hopefully tomorrow... Bedtime! :thumbsup:


----------



## ctcole (Dec 4, 2011)

I am trying to figure out what rate of water flow I am supposed to have when the blower/furnace is on. When I first did the install, it was a steady drip, and I recall reading somewhere that "drip" was what I would see, so I didn't think much of it. On Monday, I noticed that the humidity in the house was dropping rapidly, and when I checked the humidifier, the solenoid was opening but no water was flowing. I traced the lack of flow back to the saddle valve, and when I took that off, no water was flowing from pipe at all, so I assumed something was clogged in there. I took the point of the saddle valve needle and pushed it in and wiggled it around a little whacked it gently twice with a wrench. When I removed it, there was a very fine stream of water flowing out of the waterline. So, I reassembled the saddle valve and water line connections to the humidifier. The water was getting to the humidifier again, but this time, it was coming out of the supply line that goes to the evaporator panel in a steady flow (versus the fast drip like it was before). I also noticed water was also actually discharging from the drain hole at the bottom of the unit at a fairly steady rate, where previously, I was only getting a very small amount of drainage to the condensate pump and only after the system had run for awhile.

So, what rate of flow is correct (fast drip or stream)? If I am getting too much water in there now, how do I slow down the flow, since my understanding of saddle valves is that they should only be "on" or "off" and not used to control flow rate?

Joe Dirt--congrats on getting the system installed. I also thought about the upstairs humidity controller but opted for putting it on the return for all the reasons everyone indicated to you. However, I did got out and buy fairly relative humidity "meters" that also read outdoor temperature for each of the floors of our house so I could get an idea of how the numbers on the main humidifier control/sensor compared to the numbers I was seeing throughout the house. So far, my readings on the three floors of our house have been relatively consistent with each other, but they are about 5% higher than what is being displayed at the humidifier control. My assumption is that it's just a calibration issue, so instead of focusing on a particular number, I instead focused on the amount of condensation build-up on the windows. After a week or so of tinkering, I finally ended up setting the control on #4, and when it's 30 degrees, it reads about 35% at the furnace and about 40% on the three independent measuring points and I get very little condensation and only on the storm windows. Also, all the meters same to rise in relative unison with each other as the outside temperature increases. I'm not really sure what any of that means (or what the actual humidity level in our house is), but thought it might be helpful to you in trying to get things set to your particular house's conditions.

Thanks!


----------



## Joe Dirt (Oct 21, 2011)

I have a pretty steady flow from my drain, not like rushing, but between a "heavy drip" and a "slow run" kind of thing.

I have to get a psychrometer or something to measure my RH, as the control is on 7, but the other half likes it so cold in the house (62-64) that the furnace doesn't run enough in my opinion to pump the humidity up. I am however hooked up to a cold water line right now (existing saddle valve to try it first) and maybe that matters a lot. I also do not have it set to run with a fan, and I do not yet have the external temp sensor mounted/attached so I am in manual mode for right now.

My control says between 33-35% right now, I let it run up to 70*F and was at 35%. How can I get it bumped higher if the upstairs is at 35% also? I have no condensation...


----------



## harleyrider (Feb 20, 2007)

Joe Dirt said:


> plummen- thanks for the clarification on that, I think I have it now. Need to go pick up some wire at the hardware store so I can continue wiring. One thing about moving- I have no idea where some of my stuff is yet...
> 
> harleyrider- ok, I never though of it that way... It'll be going on the return. Thanks hr- wouldn't be attempting this without your help!


 NP Joe.........glad it all worked out for you.


----------

