# curved stairs



## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

how to build a curved staircase ?


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## Jay123 (May 7, 2008)

very carefully.:wink:


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

david f said:


> how to build a curved staircase ?


Call in a pro as this project is far too complex for most contractors much less a homeowner.
Ron


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## Jay123 (May 7, 2008)

:yes: Call Keith.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Fine Homebuilding has had several articles over the years------

That being said---Stair builders are the top of the trade---Even a highly skilled carpenter will watch with aw as a master stair builder ply's his trade----They are one part mathematical genius --one part furniture builder---one part artist--- 

They have my admiration,and respect,that's for sure.---Mike--


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## Jay123 (May 7, 2008)

:yes:


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Ron6519 said:


> Call in a pro as this project is far too complex for most contractors much less a homeowner.
> Ron


Hello Ron I am a cabinetmaker, I seen nice curved stairs finished, just needed a good look at how they were made ...


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## Jay123 (May 7, 2008)

google


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Jay123 said:


> :yes: Call Keith.


Hello Jay who is Keith ?


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## Jay123 (May 7, 2008)

http://www.diychatroom.com/members/keith-mathewson-87982/

Stair master. :yes:


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

david f said:


> Hello Ron I am a cabinetmaker, I seen nice curved stairs finished, just needed a good look at how they were made ...


thanks


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Look at jiju1943--another stair master---also Willie T --he loves stairs and has posted a lot on the subject---


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> Look at jiju1943--another stair master---also Willie T --he loves stairs and has posted a lot on the subject---


How do I find them jiju1943--another stair master---also Willie T ???


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

how do I find them jiju1943--another stair master---also Willie T???


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

David,

What is it you that has caught your interest?


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Use the search button-or check the members list---if you find one of their posts you can just click on their name and you will see their profile (and pictures)--Mike--


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

*help*



Keith Mathewson said:


> David,
> 
> What is it you that has caught your interest?


Hello: I have a project I have to do with a radius staircase ,if I show you the drawing can you give me some advice ? if so, can you email me at [email protected] so I can attach a drawing ...?? thank you..


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

The curved stairs that I have built all start on paper. The start and endpoints are determined and the curves are drawn. Full size paper drawing can be made by the autocad or can be made the old school way with tremmel points. In the shop 2 curved walls are made to the exact radius needed for a wall stringer and an open stringer ( this would be a typical design). I make my open strg at 1"thick. So i will make 4 layers of 1/4" material, that way it will bend around the studded wall on pitch. I then layout my rise and run on the one piece of the 1/4" material just as you would do a normal stringer. I then tack this layer up on the forms and make sure to level and plumb the lines up perfectly. once the 1st layer is in place you glue on the other layers using strongbacks clamped level with the studded wall. Yes there are more little steps that I left out, but this is just to get the idea.
after a day unclamp and cut your lines with a circular saw, of coarse mitering the risers cuts on the stringers. The wall stringer if routed out with a dado to accept the treads and risers and a wedge from the back. This is routed out on a piece of 3/4" material...usually 1x12. it is then kerfed on the backside about 2/3rds of the way through to allow it to bend around the forms. Also hang this up on pitch on the curved mockup wall and glue on another piece of 1/4" material on th back to lock it in. 

The tread are made off of full size prints made off of the autocad. A pattern is usually made for similar parts.

I can go into more details if anyone is really interested


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Millertyme said:


> The curved stairs that I have built all start on paper. The start and endpoints are determined and the curves are drawn. Full size paper drawing can be made by the autocad or can be made the old school way with tremmel points. In the shop 2 curved walls are made to the exact radius needed for a wall stringer and an open stringer ( this would be a typical design). I make my open strg at 1"thick. So i will make 4 layers of 1/4" material, that way it will bend around the studded wall on pitch. I then layout my rise and run on the one piece of the 1/4" material just as you would do a normal stringer. I then tack this layer up on the forms and make sure to level and plumb the lines up perfectly. once the 1st layer is in place you glue on the other layers using strongbacks clamped level with the studded wall. Yes there are more little steps that I left out, but this is just to get the idea.
> after a day unclamp and cut your lines with a circular saw, of coarse mitering the risers cuts on the stringers. The wall stringer if routed out with a dado to accept the treads and risers and a wedge from the back. This is routed out on a piece of 3/4" material...usually 1x12. it is then kerfed on the backside about 2/3rds of the way through to allow it to bend around the forms. Also hang this up on pitch on the curved mockup wall and glue on another piece of 1/4" material on th back to lock it in.
> 
> The tread are made off of full size prints made off of the autocad. A pattern is usually made for similar parts.
> ...


YES i AM PLS.


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

are you building in a shop, or on site. do you have autocad or will you be drawing by hand?


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

O! sorry take care..


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

wow nice work guys.

The only circular stairs i've built, and this may be the method for a DIY, was not an open set of stairs.

You need to read up on how to do the layout, just remember to put it on paper, layout so that you know exactly how many risers/treads you will have, figure out your radius,etc. layout on floor..

when we did it we framed one wall(closed side of stairs, full height wall) and built the stairs into the wall, no stringers. Ditto for the other side, framed each tread/riser into the wall, only this wall wasn't full height, was supporting stairs. 

For the walls use doubled up plywood for plates, you can cut with a skillsaw set to shallow depth.

One way of doing it anyways that might work for you if the application is right, easier for a novice than some of the expert work on here, which I think takes years of specialization to become good at.

Other way with closed/semi closed stairs is creating stringers out of quarter inch material, laminating, etc. Buy a few practice pieces.

good luck.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

chrisBC said:


> wow nice work guys.
> 
> The only circular stairs i've built, and this may be the method for a DIY, was not an open set of stairs.
> 
> ...


 do you have any photos ???


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

Without seeing your layout of the room it is hard to see you options here. The most important thing to do here is to see if the room will accomidate what you want to do. Often times walls and headers need to be moved to allow for such stairs. Sometimes people thing curved stairs are a way of making a room bigger however it is quite the opposite.


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## chrisBC (Dec 28, 2010)

sorry David no pics, I actually built it in trade school, 4th year carpentry. Picture one wall full height (to ceiling) next wall came to stair height, as in built to support stairs, I hope that makes sense..

only other thing with this method too I should mention is keep in mind drywalling the curved wall...

I guess you need the right application for this to work-as in if you want open stairs you are going to have to go for another method, this just strikes me as a good basic way to built the stairs, and for someone with decent skill not to get over their head.


Good luck..


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

HarknessConst said:


> Some very nice stair work in this thread. I'm very impressed.
> 
> Do you guys laminate your handrails also? or do you use the tangent method with solid pieces?
> 
> I've got a book that tries to teach the tangent handrail method and It just makes me go .


I used to laminate my curved rail from 1/4" laminations and then bend them to my forms on pitch. After they dry i would scrape them clean then profile by hand with a router. Now they have most popular rail profiles that made in about 8 layers with the pofile on the outer 2 sides. The pieces all lock together. All you need to do is glue and clamp them to a form. They also sell the negative part of the rail profile (usually a wax-like material) which makes clamping much easier.
Carved wreaths are much more involved. I have one of those tangent handrail books and yes they are difficult to decipher.Getting the basic shape is one thing. Getting a profile on it is sometimes just as hard.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

thanks


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Millertyme said:


> I used to laminate my curved rail from 1/4" laminations and then bend them to my forms on pitch. After they dry i would scrape them clean then profile by hand with a router. Now they have most popular rail profiles that made in about 8 layers with the pofile on the outer 2 sides. The pieces all lock together. All you need to do is glue and clamp them to a form. They also sell the negative part of the rail profile (usually a wax-like material) which makes clamping much easier.
> Carved wreaths are much more involved. I have one of those tangent handrail books and yes they are difficult to decipher.Getting the basic shape is one thing. Getting a profile on it is sometimes just as hard.


I have one of the tangent rail books also, it would take a genius to understand all of that. Curved and spiral rails aren't hard to understand but rails with open sides that are straight for 4 or 5 treads then you have winders and back to straight the rest of the way will make you scratch your head a little, a bending rail will not work on them as they have compound curves.


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## Firehawk734 (Mar 12, 2008)

I just wanted to say the staircases shown in this thread are absolutely phenomenal. How do you guys get the wood to curl like that out of curiosity? Is there some process or what? I'm just an admirer inquiring. Fantastic work.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Hello does anybody have the videos of Keith Mathewson curved stairs ?? .where can I find them on the net ?


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

Here you are David http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFdO-y1YVM if you look at the top of the page it will show all the other vids.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Here you are David http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFdO-y1YVM if you look at the top of the page it will show all the other vids.



Keith it looks like you have two templates for the stringer wide side and narrow ?


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

David,

That stair took something in the neighborhood of 6 templates. You will find that as your inside stringer radius gets tighter (that one was 7 1/2") that the kerf cuts have to be closer together and as such they break easily. With the outside stringer some will be much larger than others.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> David,
> 
> That stair took something in the neighborhood of 6 templates. You will find that as your inside stringer radius gets tighter (that one was 7 1/2") that the kerf cuts have to be closer together and as such they break easily. With the outside stringer some will be much larger than others.



Thanks Keith, a pitcher is a thousand words >>


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

Just thought I would donate this math formula to the conversation. This would be for a 1/4 circle curved strairs with 13 treads. Thats where the 90 degrees and number 13 come from so you can change these two numbers for your specific application. R = radius.

R X 2 X pi (22/7) X 90 degrees divided by 360 degrees divided by 13 treads

Use this to calculate the length of tread for the outside and inside stringers. Draw it on the floor.
Are you going to tackle this project? Will it be self supporting? What does it require for a hand railing? 
I always cut my treads on a table saw with a taper jig and I use 3/8 plywood for the stringers 5 plys. 1/8 mahogany door skins make a good backing if you want to apply a veneer to the stringer and give it the solid wood appearance. If you really want to test your talents finish the handrailing with a declining tangent scroll based on a hyperbolic spiral. I can walk you through that one but you will need a band saw and free standing belt sander to ease the job along. Time and a great deal of patience will be an asset.


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

Another question. Housed or open stringer? Open is much easier.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

masterofall said:


> Just thought I would donate this math formula to the conversation. This would be for a 1/4 circle curved strairs with 13 treads. Thats where the 90 degrees and number 13 come from so you can change these two numbers for your specific application. R = radius.
> 
> R X 2 X pi (22/7) X 90 degrees divided by 360 degrees divided by 13 treads
> 
> ...


 thanks do you have any photos ? and yes I have all the tools ..


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

David f---Thanks for getting this thread started---I enjoy learning about complicated stairs.-Mike-


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

oh'mike said:


> David f---Thanks for getting this thread started---I enjoy learning about complicated stairs.-Mike-


look at Keith Mathewson site on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFdO-y1YVM this guy is good


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I'll be back---Great,helpful videos--thanks.--Now back to the movie--


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## mrgins (Jan 19, 2009)

I love projects like this that force you to think. Best to do things with scrap material first to avoid costly screwups


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

mrgins said:


> I love projects like this that force you to think. Best to do things with scrap material first to avoid costly screwups


scrap material can be costly when building curved stairs ....but I must admit it is nice to get the wows...


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

david f I'll see if I can get you something from the real estate brochure from my last house. My biggest flaw in a personal construction history is not keeping a photo record. I just save magazine and news paper articles about houses I have worked on when needing references if I'm trying to find work to challenge my skills and knowledge in order to aquire more skills and knowledge
The stairs in my last house had a 1/4 circle inside radius, two thirds of the way down the outside radius turned into the inside radius going the other direction, a centre line indicating the run splits into a Y where the outside stringer changes direction. After two transition treads one on either side of the Y-split the next treads have four reference points from which to find a common reference point. These treads are arced in shape with a different radius on each riser.
It's complicated. 
I'll see if I can figure out how to load and enter a top view drawing to save that 1,000 words.
More on your project if you want help or advice just let me know what you doing or how you want to approach it. There are lots of possible variables
Where on the rock are you? My Dads from Corner Brook. Haven't been back there for almost 1/2 century


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

masterofall said:


> david f I'll see if I can get you something from the real estate brochure from my last house. My biggest flaw in a personal construction history is not keeping a photo record. I just save magazine and news paper articles about houses I have worked on when needing references if I'm trying to find work to challenge my skills and knowledge in order to aquire more skills and knowledge
> The stairs in my last house had a 1/4 circle inside radius, two thirds of the way down the outside radius turned into the inside radius going the other direction, a centre line indicating the run splits into a Y where the outside stringer changes direction. After two transition treads one on either side of the Y-split the next treads have four reference points from which to find a common reference point. These treads are arced in shape with a different radius on each riser.
> It's complicated.
> I'll see if I can figure out how to load and enter a top view drawing to save that 1,000 words.
> ...


 St.John's you dad is from NFLD. I see y you are so talented ..


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

The next treads have four reference points from which to find a common "RADIUS" point

Sorry about the error possibly adding confusion the the confusing description


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## Dwoodsmith (Jan 13, 2011)

David, the math doesn't require a genius, but you do have to know the simple method. If you can multiply and divide and want to know more, you can e-mail your phone#.
[email protected] gmx.com.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

david f said:


> scrap material can be costly when building curved stairs ....but i must admit it is nice to get the wows...



what is a nice height for wain scooting on a 8 ' wall ??


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

david f said:


> what is a nice height for wain scooting on a 8 ' wall ??



32 inches to the top from the floor.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

jiju1943 said:


> 32 inches to the top from the floor.



Thanks Jim


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

David when you get your stairs done send me a photo. I cant find any of my photos as I'm between houses with things in storage. Just send something to my web site and check out my invention at wallboardersbuddy.com while your at it


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

masterofall said:


> David when you get your stairs done send me a photo. I cant find any of my photos as I'm between houses with things in storage. Just send something to my web site and check out my invention at wallboardersbuddy.com while your at it



Ok sounds good


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

masterofall said:


> David when you get your stairs done send me a photo. I cant find any of my photos as I'm between houses with things in storage. Just send something to my web site and check out my invention at wallboardersbuddy.com while your at it



wow nice invention I need one


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

I've only had a chance to use it on three reno's but no way I'm ever going back to the cuts and callouses of finger dragging again. I can do 80-90% of my cuts with this.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

masterofall said:


> I've only had a chance to use it on three reno's but no way I'm ever going back to the cuts and callouses of finger dragging again. I can do 80-90% of my cuts with this.


 sweet .........................


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

david f said:


> how to build a curved staircase ?



Keith I bough a bendable hand rail and when I got to the sharp turn it failed in the finger joint I only tried it with one piece first what am I doing wrong ??


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

should I call you ??


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

There can be a few contributing factors-
How tight is the curve
how thick are the plys
What type of wood are you using
Don't bend on a finger joint
Are you using a bending caul
How close is the clamp spacing


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> There can be a few contributing factors-
> How tight is the curve
> how thick are the plys
> What type of wood are you using
> ...


14 " 12 " apart clamps tight on one part like in my photo


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

The spacing of your clamps is too far apart but there are probably other contributing factors.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> The spacing of your clamps is too far apart but there are probably other contributing factors.



maybe I should try a steam box ??


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

It may be that you need to steam but probably not. Get a book on steam bending and it will show why your piece broke.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> It may be that you need to steam but probably not. Get a book on steam bending and it will show why your piece broke.



should I try to bend all the pieces together ?


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

Depends on how much extra material you bought :no:


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Depends on how much extra material you bought :no:


maybe I should call you ?? email your phone # if so pls.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

I bough 14 " I need only 12


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

David,

What is the radius at it's smallest point?
I'm assuming you bought 6010 rail, did you buy the clamping caul that goes with it?
What are you using as your clamping platform?


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

clamping caul no I bough the rail the peaces are 1/4 thick email me so I can attach my photo so the rad.. [email protected]


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

After looking at the pic you sent, unless this is an old pic you are nowhere near ready to start thinking about handrail. The curves don't appear to be very tight so bending rail should be fine. You will need to re-frame some of the curve to have a platform to bend to. Remember not to use glue with cold creep and to over bend. One foot of extra rail on each end is not going to be long enough.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith Mathewson said:


> After looking at the pic you sent, unless this is an old pic you are nowhere near ready to start thinking about handrail. The curves don't appear to be very tight so bending rail should be fine. You will need to re-frame some of the curve to have a platform to bend to. Remember not to use glue with cold creep and to over bend. One foot of extra rail on each end is not going to be long enough.



that is a old photo


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

I see no photo, if you’re going to have this conversation in private, fine. 

If the conversation is in the forum you should include all of it so others can see, learn and/or contribute.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 1, 2010)

When I try to post the pic it gets rejected.
Bending rail will work if you use a continuous clamping caul and lots of clamps.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> I see no photo, if you’re going to have this conversation in private, fine.
> 
> If the conversation is in the forum you should include all of it so others can see, learn and/or contribute.



I don't know how to put my desktop photo on chat room I tried I am proud of my stairs . show me pls.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

david f said:


> I don't know how to put my desktop photo on chat room I tried I am proud of my stairs . show me pls.


http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/how-attach-photo-post-12559/ :thumbsup:


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/how-attach-photo-post-12559/ :thumbsup:










I did that but nothing happen..


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

david f said:


> I did that but nothing happen..


It works for me, I know about wood splinters and bent nails not computers hopefully a Mod. Will step up and help you out, or ask for help in the Site Help section.

How did you just post that screen shot?


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

kwikfishron said:


> It works for me, I know about wood splinters and bent nails not computers hopefully a Mod. Will step up and help you out, or ask for help in the Site Help section.
> 
> How did you just post that screen shot?


copy paste it doesn't work from desktop


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## Millertyme (Apr 20, 2010)

it wont post if the file size is to large. I browse through my photos and right click on the one I want and choose edit. It opens the paint program. In one of the drop down menus you can select resize. I choose to make it 10x10 and save the new file. Now you will be able to post it.


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## david f (Dec 26, 2010)

Millertyme said:


> it wont post if the file size is to large. I browse through my photos and right click on the one I want and choose edit. It opens the paint program. In one of the drop down menus you can select resize. I choose to make it 10x10 and save the new file. Now you will be able to post it.



Thanks


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