# Add ceiling to 2 story family room



## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

You need to know the distance the floor joists would span
And what support beams/walls they can tie into


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## jbeck22 (Feb 3, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> You need to know the distance the floor joists would span
> And what support beams/walls they can tie into


you mean the existing floor joists right?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

No, you need to know the distance the new joists would span


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## jbeck22 (Feb 3, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> No, you need to know the distance the new joists would span


I could figure that out by measuring the opening of the family room right...the width and length.


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes
If the floor joists will run to that railing area then you also need to know if the beam supporting that area is sized large enough to carry the additional load. If there is a wall under the railing area you may be OK


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

You need professional help with this. An architect or a structural engineer. This part of the job is not DIY.
Ron


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## jimbuchanan (Jul 10, 2009)

Have you made any progress with your addition? I am thinking of doing the same thing to my family room which is very similar to yours. I would like to see some pictures if they are available. Also, what steps did you take to get it done?

Thanks


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

Actually if the joists are sized right it is a DIY job
Many people do this & as long as there is proper support & everything is sized right there isn't a problem

I did all the design work on my 3 story addition
I had the beams & joists sized, lumber company sent sizing info out for an engineer review & stamp - for free
I have built the entire thing myself - going ABOVE what code & sizing required
It all depends upon the abilities of the person

If I was "just" installing a floor/ceiling joists as described I would size the jopist & install
My Inspector would not require an engineer stamp

jimbuchanan - start a new thread with what you want to do if you haven't already


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## poncho (Jul 19, 2009)

Scuba_Dave said:


> Actually if the joists are sized right it is a DIY job
> Many people do this & as long as there is proper support & everything is sized right there isn't a problem
> 
> I did all the design work on my 3 story addition
> ...


I am needing some advice for a foyer enclosure, which is a similar idea but much smaller space. My foyer is about 10x8 ft. I want to enclose this to add extra room to second story. Could I use 2x10 or 2x12's and bolt them into the engineered floor trusses as the banding for the floor?


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## Ron6519 (Mar 28, 2007)

poncho said:


> I am needing some advice for a foyer enclosure, which is a similar idea but much smaller space. My foyer is about 10x8 ft. I want to enclose this to add extra room to second story. Could I use 2x10 or 2x12's and bolt them into the engineered floor trusses as the banding for the floor?


 No, you can't do that. You need to speak to a structual engineer /architect to see if it's even possible to add a second story with your current set up.
Ron


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

If you already have an engineered support beam/joists that beam/joists were sized to carry a specific load. As Ron said you can't add to that load unless it is reviewed with the new load added. In my area I have 2 lumber companies that will do these calcs for free. In other areas you may need an engineer to review the sizing & stamp your plans
Many Towns will not approve such a permit unless it has been reviewed & approved/stamped by an Engineer

Start a new thread with the specifics of your setup if you want further review of your setup & plans. Post pics of the area & explain the support/engineered floor trusses/sizing & where they are located


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## poncho (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. There are several homes in the same subdivision that have already done this same thing. I was wanting to do it myself instead of hiring it out. They all were done without any significant structural changes or problems. I just haven't done it myself and was trying to get advice on the matter.


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## poncho (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks scuba dave. I will give a lumber company a call in the area. It's a small area and other homes in same subdivision with same set up have done this. I just didn't want to pay someone to do something I can do. Thanks for the advice.


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

You do know there is more involved than the size of the joists and whether you structure can handle, right?

For example, there are codes about 2nd floor window height from the floor. But you knew that right?
You and others have been given the best advice, which is to hire an engeneer or architect to determine, if it is possible with existing structure, and what obstaqcles you will run across.
Scuba.... has built a 3 story addition, which is a long way from remodeling an actual structure. POrofessional advice at this point in the project can and will provide assurances that you are doing it right!


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

In the pictures given, the lower windows will only have two inches or so clearance above them after the floor is added. This will look odd, compared to the others. The upper windows will be within 18" of the new floor and required to be changed to safety glass, as Framer53 brought out. The return air duct vent will need to be re-located. Heat and cooling will need to be supplied to the new room. You also need light and ventilation, which may or may not be met. 

The existing interior walls *may or may not* be able to carry the new load. Unlike Dave's (new construction) someone could size your new joists, thinking they are helping you, yet don't know the rating of your *existing walls* to carry the added loads. A Structural Engineer would know, not a lumberyard employee, or a DIY'er on a forum. The professional Contractors on this forum will refer you to a S.E., the other DIY'ers will say sure, 2x? at 16"o.c. You may need a concrete foundation wall and footing underneath, rather than the doubled joists you may/not have now. You may need special blocking to make the new floor a diaphram for shear flow as it is seperate from the rest upstairs. 

If certain requirements are not met and OK'd by your local building Department, you could be required to tear it out at sale time. Number of bedrooms, square footage, etc. are all recorded on your house's record with the County, for public viewing. 

A S.E. will know the bolt size, spacing, length, and placement to safely hold up your new floor at the attachment to the walls. A Contractor would hire a S.E. because *no one else can figure it as all houses are different*. He also takes *responsibility and liability* for the addition, not the L.Y. employee. We just had another post similar with many telling you what size joists, but that is the tip of the iceburg. Attachment to the existing framing is just as important, in my opinion. 

In many States, the work you do on your house without a permit makes you personally liable for an accident or casuallty years later.

At the very least, notify your Homeowner's Insurance company, see if they will cover the addition without a permit. You will be one-up on your neighbors, and insured if something should happen down the road. Be safe, G


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## framer52 (Jul 17, 2009)

Good response, GBAR!!!


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