# Smoke detector drive me crazy



## TrojanHorse (Feb 15, 2019)

Startingover said:


> Just measured from stove, around the corner to short hall where my bedroom is. 12 ft.
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Is it photoelectric or ionization? Ionization may work better there. 

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Educati...ment/Smoke-alarms/Ionization-vs-photoelectric



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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Startingover said:


> Last week burned toast, there was a little smoke. Yes, SD went off.
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Startin...Stop burning toast....:wink2:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 11, 2010)

Starting...is there any reason any smoke would likely collect there...ventilation flow eyc....

I had a cathedral hip in our home kitchen..... I did have to move the the SD down a little.:smile:


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

photoelectric is less prone to nuisance trips due to cooking smoke, actually.

ionization only alarms, in addition to going off from cooking too much don't provide adequate escape time when the smoke is from a smoldering fire.


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## TrojanHorse (Feb 15, 2019)

user_12345a said:


> photoelectric is less prone to nuisance trips due to cooking smoke, actually.
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> ionization only alarms, in addition to going off from cooking too much don't provide adequate escape time when the smoke is from a smoldering fire.




You’re right, I was wrong in my previous post. 


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Louvered door on left in front is pantry. Stove is about 30” away from that. You can see the AC return air near the floor. On right. 

If I take the SD down to inspect will it say which kind it is?


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## TrojanHorse (Feb 15, 2019)

Startingover said:


> Louvered door on left in front is pantry. Stove is about 30” away from that. You can see the AC return air near the floor. On right.
> 
> If I take the SD down to inspect will it say which kind it is?
> 
> View attachment 585567




When you have time to put it back in (safety first!!) I’m sure it will show a model number at least which will be useful. Also you can tell if it’s wired or wireless. If wireless you can move it, but maybe your firefighter friend can help with this problem on site [emoji106][emoji91][emoji1973]


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Ionization alarms have a radioactive material warning on the back.










The newer alarms are marked with either a i or p on the front if not dual sensor.

The return may be pulling air from the kitchen into the hall increasing the risk of false trips.

A photoelectric alarm may still go off from cooking but not as early or frequently.

If you have a vented exhaust fan over your stove, use it.
If there's a range hood/exhaust fan but it's not vented, put a charcoal filter in it and use it - should still help a little.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

The firemen weren’t friends. I had electric work done (permitted) a few yrs ago. I was told code was I had to have a hardwired & battery SD. They went off Recently at 3:00 am waking me up, scaring me with the voice saying FIRE FIRE CARBON MONOXIDE CARBON MONOXIDE. I couldn’t tell which SD it was. They put one inside my bedroom and one outside. I had 4, they took different batteries which I didn’t have. Went to WM at 4:00 am. Bought batteries, had trouble holding flashlight while trying to get battery in. Got them to stop yelling. 

My SD in past ALWAYS chirped a warning days before. These didn’t. Then I was afraid they’d go off again so I disconnected them. Of course I had 4 holes in the ceiling so I left them disconnected Without batteries but put them back up to cover the holes. 

Then I went to the Fire Dept for answers. They said its a service to install them but they have to go on the ceiling. I didn’t get a close look at what they put up. At least the hardwire ones never went off when I cooked even when the kitchen had smoke. 

I usually use my hood vent unless I’m fixing something quick. i’ve never had so much trouble with SD. 

Ok, I’ll buy a photoelectric one. 

Thank you


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

keep in mind that if one of your hardwired alarms are interconnected, they all have to be compatible.

You can't just replace one and expect it to signal the other ones correctly.

Has to be same brand and other units listed to be compatible.

If you open the electrical box and all three wires from the female side of the wiring harness and connected to the electrical system, the alarms are interconnected.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

No I disconnected all the hard wired ones and removed batteries. I never want to use those again because they went off with no warning. At night. 

Thanks


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## coolair111 (Oct 18, 2019)

Surely the sensors are triggered through some motion around that causes false alarms. You should have found the cause instead of disconnecting them. Wired fire alarms are reliable ones.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

Startingover said:


> No I disconnected all the hard wired ones and removed batteries. I never want to use those again because they went off with no warning. At night.
> 
> Thanks


In most areas, it's against the law to replace hard wired alarmed with 100% battery ones when they're required by code.

Rightfully so because you lose the interconnect feature and battery ones tend to be disabled when there's a low battery warning.


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

How old is the problem SD? Old ones can get overly sensitive.


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Current ones are about 6 months old. 

I’ve been reading the Fla building code.


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## Bud9051 (Nov 11, 2015)

I can offer moral support but no help. Getting ready to replace ALL of mine.

Bud


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## raylo32 (Nov 25, 2006)

Around here the new code call for models with the 10 year lithium batteries. These will be nice to have and avoid the routine battery replacements.... especially if you have one like mine that is ridiculously high on a stairwell ceiling. Always an adventure up there to change a battery or detector.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

raylo32 said:


> Around here the new code call for models with the 10 year lithium batteries. These will be nice to have and avoid the routine battery replacements.... especially if you have one like mine that is ridiculously high on a stairwell ceiling. Always an adventure up there to change a battery or detector.


These units, at least the ones made for kidde are complete garbage.

I've experienced first hand - defective and constantly going off.

The reviews are horrible - many are defective and have false alarms and batteries dying prematurely. 

The concept is bad - ordinary alarms can work just fine beyond 10 years, they just need to be tested regularly. With the sealed lithium unit, you're forced to throw it away after 10 years.

I'm betting the manufacturers lobbied for requiring a non-replaceable battery to create an ongoing market.


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## FrodoOne (Mar 4, 2016)

It is a requirement in most jurisdictions that any and all smoke alarms be replaced after 10 years.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

As long as it's not enforced, who cares?

Corporations lobby for laws - in the worst case they practically write building codes to ensure use of their products.


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## rjordan393 (Sep 15, 2010)

Many years ago, I learned that ionization detectors were more sensitive to ambient conditions and would alarm when nothing was burning. This would occur when there was a rapid change in humidity. I seen this happen at a hospital when someone would open a door to the laundry room. The hospital switched over to photoelectric detectors and the false alarms stopped.
Now whether this holds true today, I do not know.
However Manufacturers have had plenty of time to correct the faults of both types. There is a differance on how both operate. A photoelectric smoke detector will alarm when there is visable smoke whereas a ioniztion detector will alarm when it detects the invisable products of combustion called ions.
Here's what I would do to correct the problem.
1. Identify all detectors as to type.
2. Make sure the detectors are not a dual type that also detects carbon monoxide. Your better off having carbon monoxide detectors as a separate alarm.
3.Take more pictures of your detectors and list distances to any source of combustion. Especially the one thats above the ac intake.
4 All your detectors should be of the same manufacturer. 
5. Part numbers should be the same on all photoelectrics.
6. Part numbers should be the same on all ionization detectors.
Email the manufacturer with your pictures and explain the problem.
My initial guess that you have ionization detectors in areas where
they should not be.


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## user_12345a (Nov 23, 2014)

ionization alarms still have all the same flaws they did back when they were new technology.

used alone without photo electric, they provide a false sense of security since smoldering fires don't produce enough invisible products of combustion in the smoke to be detected until it's too late.

they're still made only because they're cheap to produce.


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## ajaye (May 19, 2019)

just a throw in from me,

we had an electric stove and we never had any problems, went gas and then the alarm went off regardless, we changed the extractor to a more powerful one no joy, then changed the smoke detectors out.

can't rmember which way round, ionizer to PE or vice versa, that did the trick,
now if the alarm goes off, theres a reason behind it ! LOL

HTH


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

I learned something when working. Don’t spray anything on smoke detectors. Had a fly in my office. Tried spraying with bug spray. It flew out into the hall with me following. It landed on a ceiling Smoke Detector and I sprayed it and immediately a red light came on and I thought ‘oh crap’. Yes a big fire truck came but I met them out in the drive and explained. I know they snickered.


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## TrojanHorse (Feb 15, 2019)

Startingover said:


> I learned something when working. Don’t spray anything on smoke detectors. Had a fly in my office. Tried spraying with bug spray. It flew out into the hall with me following. It landed on a ceiling Smoke Detector and I sprayed it and immediately a red light came on and I thought ‘oh crap’. Yes a big fire truck came but I met them out in the drive and explained. I know they snickered.




So these detectors are hooked up to some type of alarm that calls the fire department?


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Evidently but that was a new Senior apartment building where I was property manager. The building also had a sprinkler system.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

Startingover said:


> Evidently but that was a new Senior apartment building where I was property manager. The building also had a sprinkler system.



For many years, hospital nurses would put blankets in the microwave to warm them. Until one day the blanket started to smoke, set off a smoke alarm & a Fire Truck came, big fine, That might have been the advent of blanket warmers.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

Startingover said:


> Last week burned toast, there was a little smoke. Yes, SD went off.


A sure sign of a Black and Decker toaster.:vs_laugh:


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## Startingover (Apr 18, 2012)

Nik, those heated blankets are absolutely wonderful. I’ve thrown an afghan in the dryer when I’ve gotten chilled. 

I’m looking online for photoelectric SD. Most have the 10 yr battery. 

In my garage I have a radioactive old SD laying around that said replace after 10 yrs so when I bought this house I took it down. But the Hazardous Waste place is out of the way an I never bothered to take it there. Yet.

Thanks everyone. I never would have known the difference in ‘I or P’ without your help.


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