# Best way to anchor false ceiling to brick wall?



## jeffmattero76

I am assuming that by "false ceiling" you are talking about installing new drywall over an existing ceiling. First, why do you need to anchor it to the wall? I would think you would anchor it to the ceiling, rather than the wall. 

Second, if anchoring to the ceiling you could do one of two things. 1 - apply the new drywall directly to the existing ceiling, and secure it with longer screws so that the screws are driven into the ceiling joists. Or 2- if there is a reason to reframe the ceiling, install 2x4s on the flat screwed into the ceiling joists and screw your new drywall to them.

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## mathmonger

I'm having trouble picturing this also. I usually use lag shields to attach wood to brick.


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## Andiy

*False ceiling* (a.k.a., secondary structural ceiling) - not to be confused with dropped or grid ceiling, a ceiling installed below an existing ceiling to reduce overall room height, hide infrastructure, create level ceiling where current sloped ceiling exists. 

All apply in my case, that should be easier to picture. Adding another layer of drywall would serve only to... add another layer of drywall and not address the other issues. I was trying to minimize the span of the joists in order to use the dimensionally smallest lumber possible for clearance reasons. Ideally, the joists would be arranged perpendicular to the longest dimension of the room. In this case I would need to use a rim joist anchored to the brick for ceiling support, since the brick wall will remain exposed, i.e., no lumber-framed wall to support ceiling span.

This is the key issue I was trying to solve, and have been unable to find answers here or elsewhere, regarding the soundness of a rim joist being anchored to a structural brick wall, then having to use joist hangers to attach to the brick-mounted rim joist. 

Nevertheless, talking (or typing) these things out often can get the brain working enough to answer one's own questions. That, and a visit to the span calculator at awc.org helps create some other solutions. Time to get back to work!


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## jeffmattero76

Ok. From your first post it was not clear to me what you were trying to do. Now i think i understand. To clarify, you plan on attaching what i would refer to as a ledger board around 2 of the 4 walls and then hang your joists via joist hangers on those ledgers. On one wall, you will attach them to the stud framing. On the opposite brick wall you need to know what to use to attach that ledger to the brick wall. Assuming all of that is accurate, I would agree on using lag shields and lag screws. I don't know the rewuired spacing specs for those lag shields but i would guess that 1 foot apart would be more than adequate. I would strongly suggest getting a hammer drill with the correct sized SDS bit to drill the holes in the brick for the shields. Good luck#

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## mathmonger

Hang some support down from the real ceiling. That will take the weight and the rafters don't need any thickness at all.


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## Andiy

jeffmattero76 said:


> Ok. From your first post it was not clear to me what you were trying to do. Now i think i understand. To clarify, you plan on attaching what i would refer to as a ledger board around 2 of the 4 walls and then hang your joists via joist hangers on those ledgers. On one wall, you will attach them to the stud framing. On the opposite brick wall you need to know what to use to attach that ledger to the brick wall. Assuming all of that is accurate,


You got it.



jeffmattero76 said:


> I would agree on using lag shields and lag screws. I don't know the rewuired spacing specs for those lag shields but i would guess that 1 foot apart would be more than adequate. I would strongly suggest getting a hammer drill with the correct sized SDS bit to drill the holes in the brick for the shields. Good luck#
> 
> Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk


Yes I love my hammer drill - makes short work of the bricks. 

The room is only 7'x11', so 2x4s would suffice for joists in the 7' direction. In that orientation, I would need the "ledger" on the brick wall. I could simply go the 11 ft direction with the joists however if I bump them up to a 2x6. The existing ceiling (actually the bottom of a 2nd floor porch) is pitched substantially, as per the standard in 1916, and it's already covered, so I don't know what is going on in there. I assume the joists are running the length of the porch (as the first floor) and with electric, insulation (?) and who knows what else going on in there, I think it would be more work to rig up some hanging system. Coincidentally, the "low" side is 8' 6 1/2" which would perfectly fit a wall with a 2x4 joist sitting on top. Hence my interest in doing it that way. The "high" side (brick wall side) has about 5" more room up top, so I'm thinking that 5 of the 2x6 joists with a 2x4 cheater joist on that low side going the 11 ft should do the trick, and I can avoid any hand-wringing over mounting to the brick wall. Of course, the ceiling is not going to weigh much or support anything, but I'm paranoid that way.


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## crackedactor

jeffmattero76 said:


> I am assuming that by "false ceiling" you are talking about installing new drywall over an existing ceiling. First, why do you need to anchor it to the wall? I would think you would anchor it to the ceiling, rather than the wall.
> 
> Second, if anchoring to the ceiling you could do one of two things. 1 - apply the new cheap beds directly to the existing ceiling, and secure it with longer screws so that the screws are driven into the ceiling joists. Or 2- if there is a reason to reframe the ceiling, install 2x4s on the flat screwed into the ceiling joists and screw your new drywall to them.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk


I would also be wary of any structural damage with this approach.


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## firehawkmph

If all you're doing is anchoring a 2 X 4 to the brick wall, use Tapcons. 3" would work well. If you have a hammer drill, drilling the holes would be easy enough. If the brick is overly hard, place the tapcons so they hit the mortar joints.
Mike Hawkins:smile:


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## Andiy

firehawkmph said:


> If all you're doing is anchoring a 2 X 4 to the brick wall, use Tapcons. 3" would work well. If you have a hammer drill, drilling the holes would be easy enough. If the brick is overly hard, place the tapcons so they hit the mortar joints.
> Mike Hawkins:smile:


That's actually what I ended up doing. Contrary to my previous post, I decided to go with 2x4s for the ceiling joists. Since these would be oriented in the 7' direction, I needed that ledger type of joist on the bricks, so I ran a 2x6 the length of the room, 8' up, with a 3 1/2" tapcon every 12-16" alternating high and low on the 2x6, with the 2x6 bedded in liquid nails. IN addition, one side of the joist is sitting on top of a stud wall. 
Probably overkill, but better safe than sorry!


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