# New porch/landing with balusters & rails.



## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Is anyone familiar with the Simpson LSU26Z stringer hanger?
How is this supposed to be attached and with what nails?
The indicated stamp would seem to indicate that it needs a nail at a 45 degree angle? That would probably need to be a 10D 3" galv. common, right? 
Also, what do I attach the faceplate to the header with? the joist hanger 1 1/2" with the number 10 stamped on the heads? (shown)

Thanks guys! Has to be right for the inspector, don't you know!

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/LSU-LSSU.asp#gallery


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The link Ron posted pretty well takes care of the nail sizes. I have never used that type of hanger, they keep coming out with new ones all the time.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Ron, that's the 'octogon' hanger all right, but when I click on "show me the instructional video", it's NOT the one they show how to install! 

[email protected]#!#@!#@!

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> I click on "show me the instructional video", it's NOT the one they show how to install!
> 
> [email protected]#!#@!#@!
> 
> DM


What did it only take 20 min. to find that out with dial up? 

I've never used that hanger either.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Right, so I figure, for each hanger, 12 10D common galvanized, 45'd in as shown in the video for the face (header), and 5 stamped #10s for the joist holes, 45'd in? (except the bottom one, which is shown 90'd) Right?

Thanks!

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Okay, I KNOW this is wrong. 3 or so inches at "A" and 6 or so at B?
How far can those hangers go down? Do I need to add a 4' 2X4 under the header and lower the stringers?

Thanks!

*whew!*

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Those 10d 1 1/2" nails are just standard joist hanger ( tico) nails.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Right, that's what the video showed for the joist nails, the 1 1/2". 

The octagon plate to header nails were the 3" 10D commons at an angle... weird, huh?

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Yes, you need to add something down there and lower the stringers.


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## CoconutPete (Jan 22, 2010)

Looking good!

I had to add a 2x4 to the bottom of my joist when I first started building my stairs (I ended up changing my mind and making the first step flush w/ the top of the landing but that's another story altogether), it's a PITA when the joist is already in place.

I'm a big fan of the free standing, that's how I built my deck, my friends still stop sometimes and go "uhh .... is this attached to the house?".


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

I agree with Kwikfishron in adding a 2x4 below. How wide are your stairs going to be? are they going to be as wide as the landing? My reason for asking is because I only see 2 stringers which I do not believe is enough.( hard to tell with just a pic, the drawings don't state width)


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

3 stringers, 3' steps.

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> Welp, this is my last project I need to finish to get my final building inspection.
> I'll post progress pics and with the help of you great guys here, hopefully catching any potential booboos, I may actually get this done!
> Here's a drawing of approximately what I need to build. (Thank You AndyGump)
> oh'mike noticed the original drawing had the handrail too high, so that was the first thing to consider and I edited the drawing to show lower handrails.
> ...


That hand rail should be 36’’ high. Also your railing can also be 36’’ in height because you’re not over 4’-0’’ from grade.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Danger--I found a useful link for your bottom handrail post attachment.

Solid Newel Post For Floating Deck Stairs - Decks & Fencing - Contractor Talk


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## Daniel Holzman (Mar 10, 2009)

You probably figured this out long ago, but the table for the LSU26 hanger on page 74 of the Simpson 2009 manual shows six (6) 10d nails and five (5) 10d 1-1/2 inch nails per hanger, not the 12 10d nails you listed in your post.

And I too had to add a 4x4 to the bottom of my framing to get the spacing correct for the stairs on my deck. I used the same hanger you did, by the way.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Daniel, do you have the graphic you can show here? The pdf I downloaded from them has something totally different on page 74...?
The video showed 6 nails on each side of the stringer.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Landing cut to size today so far. 5 2x8s spaced at about 1/2" apart and the same from the house. Not screwed down yet.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Does anyone know what the max space allowed between deck planks is? 
...or at least what the max recommended distance might be?

Thanks!

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Minimum for 2x stock is 1/8"-----The maximum???


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

DM, that 1/2 inch between the decking will open even wider as the boards dry, I always used a 12d nail as a spacer and the margin opened up wider later. You have a good strong deck that you won't have to worry about, that is for sure.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I imagine if it opens up to 1" even, it still wouldn't matter much, huh?
A baby couldn't fall in between the planks or anything, right? :laughing:

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> I imagine if it opens up to 1" even, it still wouldn't matter much, huh?
> A baby couldn't fall in between the planks or anything, right? :laughing:
> 
> DM


No but wife can twist an ankle if she got her high heels caught in the gap.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

epson said:


> No but wife can twist an ankle if she got her high heels caught in the gap.


Then she would put something on you Ajax wouldn't take off, called a bruise.:laughing:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Gee.... I'm glad no-one here wears them.

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

If that’s pond dried treated yellow pine I wouldn’t space it at all. By the time it dries out you’ll end up with plenty of gap. 

Overhang your first deck board an inch for a nosing same with the stair treads.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Hmm... I don't have room for nosings, it just barely flushes out, even after ripping the 2x12s for a gap in the middles... this is odd. Picture in a minute then.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Okay, here's how I thought it should be. I did not want nosings to snag my toes on. It's not required to have them, is it?

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> Okay, here's how I thought it should be. I did not want nosings to snag my toes on. It's not required to have them, is it?
> 
> DM


Not really required.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

With closed risers it’s not required if the tread is at least 11” under, 11” it is.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Kwickfish or Jiju---(or any one with stair code knowledge)--His bottom step is short---will the inspection fail because of that?


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

No, the bottom step is fine, all steps are 7". I was just wondering if I could move the TOP step (all 3 stringers) up an inch, making the last step to the landing a 6" rise instead of 7". ...or do they ALL have to be 7", period?

Thanks again everyone!

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

they all should be 7''


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

oh'mike said:


> Kwickfish or Jiju---(or any one with stair code knowledge)--His bottom step is short---will the inspection fail because of that?


If he lived here in Tennessee it would fail, the difference here is a max of 1/4 or 5/16 inch, 3/8 inch difference and you tear the stairs out. I don't know why I didn't think about that when he moved his stringer down.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

nononono, like I said, right now they're ALL exactly 7", but there's a one or two degree tilt.
No biggie, right?

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Your inspector has a bug about you already---make the stairs the same----double check the tread width also.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

To make it perfectly level, can I remove one more inch from the bottoms of the stringers, making the bottom step a 6" rise?

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

The small 'tilt' should be acceptable.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

The treads measure a perfect 36" X 11" all

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Look at this DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

oops, except the top step, there's a 12" space from the landing header to the front of that step. Is that not good?

How would I fix THAT?

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

There is an exception to the nosing requirements. You don’t need the nosing it the tread is at least 11” deep. 

It sure does look better with it though.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

This is exactly why pre-cut stringers rarely work.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Then why the heck do they make the stupid things??? :laughing:
If I added 2x2's at the notches, that would give me noses on all the steps.

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

DangerMouse said:


> Then why the heck do they make the stupid things??? :laughing:
> If I added 2x2's at the notches, that would give me noses on all the steps.
> 
> DM



In all my years of wood working I never had a stair case that worked with a store bought stringer. 

I have no idea why they make them either.:laughing:



As to the top step being to wide----add more nose to the deck???

Remove stairs and cut the inch off the back of the stringer???

To see if the stairs are good lay a straight edge onto the steps from the bottom to the deck---the straight edge should contact every nose including the deck nose.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Here's how I decided to do it. Now they all have the "proper" 1" noses. :laughing:

....and 1/4" gaps max I think too, keeping in mind the whole high heels thing. 

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

:clap: That looks much better. :clap:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I AM okay locking the newel post(s) to the second step edge like shown, right? 
How far does the handrail have to extend past the top of the post?

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Hand rail should extend past the post until it is above the first step nose.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Thought so, thanks.

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Your grab rail has to extend past the nosing of the first step and return back into the post. The front of the post should be out to the first riser and should be solid as a rock.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> Here's how I decided to do it. Now they all have the "proper" 1" noses. :laughing:
> 
> ....and 1/4" gaps max I think too, keeping in mind the whole high heels thing.
> 
> DM


much better.:thumbsup:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> Your grab rail has to extend past the nosing of the first step and return back into the post. The front of the post should be out to the first riser and should be solid as a rock.


So you're saying I need to move the 4x4 to the front edge of the stringer, and then still extend the 2x4 handrail further?

"return back to the post"?

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> So you're saying I need to move the 4x4 to the front edge of the stringer, and then still extend the 2x4 handrail further?
> 
> "return back to the post"?
> 
> DM


just move the post over...


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

The handrail has to come past the nosing of the first step and then return into and be attached to the post.

How are you going to secure the post?


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> The handrail has to come past the nosing of the first step and then return into and be attached to the post.
> 
> How are you going to secure the post?


Can you show me a picture of an example of this?

I intended to bolt the 4x4s to the stringer bottom with 6" carriage bolts.
I may need to go with the 'threaded rod the whole length' for 'rock solid' strength, we'll see. 

So, I drill and set the 4x4 at this edge now?

Thanks for all the help guys!

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

should look like this


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

That doesn’t cut it anymore down here epson, you must also have a grab rail.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

grab rail like this


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

epson: Mine does not have an outside stringer like that, and that one is just a WEE bit taller than mine too! :laughing:

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Ron: will I need to add a rounded grab rail too? It'd have to go on top of the 2x4 handrails!

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I think I understand what you mean by 'return' too, that'd be in the section indicated by #'s 1, 3 and 5 in the graphic graciously supplied by epson.  I can build it that way. I may just have this thing finished this year!

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

epson said:


> grab rail like this


Yes..


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

So, The inspector is going to be looking for a grabable hand rail out side----

Good thing we have an outside guy that knows current codes.


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> I think I understand what you mean by 'return' too, that'd be in the section indicated by #'s 1, 3 and 5 in the graphic graciously supplied by epson.  I can build it that way. I may just have this thing finished this year!
> 
> DM


No problem.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

IF he asks for one, can I put it on TOP of the handrail? Inside would be less than 36" clearance.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Will this be acceptable as balusters/guardrail for the landing? I had the wife get the 6D galv. nails (shown in the first post drawing), but they sure do not seem to be long/strong enough, so I think I will pull them and use galv. deck screws. 
The gaps between balusters are maximum 3 7/8".... 

DM


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

That will pass--however if the bottom cleat were raised 3 inches or so ,sweeping the porch would be easier.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> IF he asks for one, can I put it on TOP of the handrail? Inside would be less than 36" clearance.
> 
> DM


The handrail can be within the 36” width of the stairs, look back at the drawings. The top your guardrail should be 36” min. measured up plumb off the nosing. I set my handrails at 34 ½” measured plumb off the nosing.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I was thinking more along the lines of if/when we need to move new appliances in and out.
36" is fine, too much less would be awful tight.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Here's where I'm at now.

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of if/when we need to move new appliances in and out.
> 36" is fine, too much less would be awful tight.
> 
> DM


Then you whip out your trusty screw gun and get the rail out of the way. :thumbsup:


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Looking good to me--


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Nice job DM! 

Just one thing though. On the bottom step.... is that the shadow of a space alien? 



Barb


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

.....alien... *sheesh* ......of course not.... 

That's just the shadow from *my* space ship.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Darnit, I didn't finish over the weekend as I had hoped.
Here's where I am now. I hope he approves of the method of attaching the top of the rail to the 4x4. 

DM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

You have 8,000 posts! (on the forum, not on your stairway :laughing Congratulations!

Barb


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

....and 7,995 of those were me asking questions! :laughing:
Oh well, I may have helped the other 5 or so guys a little. 

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I used some 6" wide 5/4 for the top of the guardrails to widen it a little for setting a purse or groceries on while opening the door. I extended the ends a few inches so she can put potted plants on each side. 3" deck screwed from underneath to hide screws.

DM


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## fixrite (Mar 1, 2009)

Looking good Danger, Nice job


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## tpolk (Nov 7, 2009)

are the pickets on the deck part leaning in at the bottom or am i not seeing it right. they may have a problem with how far the top cap extends over the stair cap, altho i really like it


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

The top 5/4 boards only protrude an inch to the outsides. I don't foresee a problem?
All the balusters on the deck are plumb and flat, and secured with 3" screws. 
All max 3 7/8" gaps.

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

...and done. I have a handrail and brackets to attach it with IF the inspector requires it. If not, the brackets can be returned and the rail can be recycled into "something".
I'll try to remember to take one more picture from a distance after I clean up my mess.

DM


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## epson (Jul 28, 2010)

You know, it’s nice to see when someone on here asks a lot of questions and the forum walks them through it and we all finally see the end result. Nicely done DangerMouse. :thumbsup:


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Looks good DM. 

BUT……. You might want to knock off the corners at the bottom of the rail and sand down the edges a bit. Just a thought.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

I might just do that. I did on the top 5/4 boards.

DM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Pretty work DM, you shouldn't have any problems passing, that I can see.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

Looking nice Danger!!!!


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

One last picture with the handrail.

Note dog (who claimed under the porch, of course) and cat who claimed cinder block pile.

:laughing:

I hope he finds nothing wrong. I believe with the help of all of you guys, this should pass no problem. THANK YOU to all who helped!

I overkilled it to hold an elephant, so when the MIL visits.... 

DM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

:thumbup: Another project finished! Good job! 

I bet Mrs. DM is happy to have it finished too. Ask her if she'd like some Hosta's to plant on either side of the steps (with permission from the dog and cat, of course). I can mail some to her.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Remember though, there's a couple feet of concrete pad on each side. She has some already, but we always enjoy your visits, so _bring_ some more rather than mail them! Po)

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

All right you guys.... The picture is right there in post #90.... how come nobody caught and explained to me about the handrail needing to be mitered and attached to the sides? *So no-one catches their SLEEVES on the ends??????? * I felt like telling him (the inspector) that nobody HERE is that STUPID!!!! ....but OK... if that's all the problem is, I can fix that in 10 minutes.

(Yes Ron, I know you mentioned it, but I wish you would have explained to me that it was _required_ and why. It would have been nicer had the inspector found NOTHING wrong with anything here.)

DM


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

DM, that rail there is a decoy to keep him from looking for a real problem. :thumbsup:


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> All right you guys....
> (Yes Ron, I know you mentioned it, but I wish you would have explained to me that it was _required_ and why. It would have been nicer had the inspector found NOTHING wrong with anything here.)
> 
> DM


Well, after a couple of pictures and explaining it "is" required “twice” I must have been having a “Soapbox Moment” and gave up. :laughing:

It’s not like I’m the only one here. :blink:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Yeah, well.... you still should have seen my goof up and saved me. :laughing:
After all, what are friends for?  But hey, if that's ALL he found.... *yay!*

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

:laughing: Yeah, well….I guess having to deal with the Inspector one more time is your punishment for not paying attention to the details of the plan. Been there done that…:huh:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Actually, he said to just fix it and leave a photo at the office in town so he doesn't have to "drive all the way out here" again. lol We're good.... 

DM


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

...and here's the picture I'll leave at the office. 


I was wrong though, it didn't take ten minutes............... 





































...............it took 5.

DM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Uh-oh. You should...... Oh, never mind. I'm sure it's nothing.

Hadja goin' for a second there! :laughing:

It looks great DM.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I had a buddy of mine who ran the small rail on top of the heavy rail. 

That does look good though, I would be worried about catching the corner of the small rail, that could smart.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Yeah, I was thinking of rounding it out a bit.

DM


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

Is this kind of hand rail something new, as far as it being required by code? We had our deck built around 2000 and the inspector never told us we had to have one.


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## oh'mike (Sep 18, 2009)

The stair hand rail codes have been in effect for many years---However,the inspectors have kind of ignored the code on out door decks-----Danger has a' by the book' inspector--so he tagged the job.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

gma2rjc said:


> Is this kind of hand rail something new, as far as it being required by code? We had our deck built around 2000 and the inspector never told us we had to have one.


It wasn’t until about 05 when I started getting called on it.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm sure they're good to have, but with the rails right there it seems like it would be better to use those. 

I would think that with the handrail sticking out into the stairway at that height, it could be in the way. If someone was carrying something big up the stairs and their vision was blocked by that object, they could bump into the handrail and bounce off of it, falling backwards down the stairs.

I'm not talking about your handrail specifically DM, just any handrail in general.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Not everyone can get a firm grip on a 2x6. You need to have something you can get your hand around.


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## gma2rjc (Nov 21, 2008)

That makes sense.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That's the reason, like Ron said. I built two custom all cherry stairs for a person but they wanted the rails to be very heavy. I told them I didn't think they would make it by the inspector but they wanted them anyway. I built them and believe it or not they passed.


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## JoJo-Arch (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi, my 2 bob's worth (that's 20c US). Wouldn't the stringer be far stronger if instead of cutting back in a zig-zag fashion to form the treads and risers, you let the treads and risers fit into slots about 1/2" deep x witdh of wood thickness. into the stringers? From the photos, I see about 2" (if that) throat thickness left at the bottom of the stringer at each tread. One 200 lb he-man would easily break that if he bounced as well, as he would virtually be climbing a piece of 2"x1". The wood looks like pine, another strong reason these stringers might fail. Cheers! Joe from OZ. :whistling2:


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

JoJo-Arch said:


> From the photos, I see about 2" (if that) throat thickness left at the bottom of the stringer at each tread.


:huh: Good catch on the stringers. I can’t believe nobody here (or the inspector) caught that. 

DM…rip it apart and start over. :whistling2:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

kwikfishron said:


> :huh: Good catch on the stringers. I can’t believe nobody here (or the inspector) caught that.
> 
> DM…rip it apart and start over. :whistling2:


I already did.... I tore the whole thing down and did it again.....

DM


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

DangerMouse said:


> I already did.... I tore the whole thing down and did it again.....
> 
> DM


Without pictures it didn’t happen. :laughing:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

My camera broke yesterday.

DM


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## shumakerscott (Jan 11, 2008)

DangerMouse said:


> My camera broke yesterday.
> 
> DM


And the check is in the mail too!:yes:


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

Fixed the camera, pics to follow...... 



some day....

DM


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