# spraying Thompson's water seal thru my airless



## user1007

You should think twice before using Thompson's Water Seal. If you are lucky you will get one season out of it. It is a liquid wax based product (not totally unlike the cheap stuff you pay $1 extra for at the car wash) so you cannot finish through it and if it does not wear evenly you end up having to strip it off just like you would a waxed floor. If you can get it out of deck wood grain. It can encourage algae and mold growth and resulting discoloration and staining. 

You would be much better of with a penetrating sealer, or a sealer and UV protective clear coat system.

A pump sprayer, sometimes chased by a pad, is the usual recommended method for applying sealers and at least semi-transparent stains. I am not sure you will get the coverage you are seeking through regular spray gear. And again, if you go with Thompson's you will have the wax issue in your spray system.


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## ToolSeeker

I wouldn't use it in my airless sprayer. Butt I might consider a cheap Wagner buzz sprayer. And I agree about the Thompson's I feel you have a few better choices.


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## funfool

I really do not know the answer to if it would ruin the seals, 
I honestly would not waste my time and money on the product. 
I knew better, but a guy on craigs list had a 5 gallon pail of it for $10. What the heck, I need 2 gallons and with 5 I can put on 2 coats. In 6 months the product is just gone and I need to redo it again. Is simply a small garden shed in my yard with stain grade T1-11.
I just regret using it in the first place.
I have many jobs out there, including a garden shed for a friend. I used sikkens on it and at 5 years old, would not even consider it time to redo it. I have many other projects running 6-7 years in the New Mexico sun and look great.

I pay $65 per gallon for sikkens, they have two quality levels and the flat finish is the cheap one, I do not use it.
Another product I will use is penofin. It is more reasonable at $35 per gallon, I buy a lot of rough sawn lumber, corbels, beams, columns and is what that store recommends.
Is also easer to find in my case.

I use a pump up sprayer to apply, but really am sorry you are using Thompsons water seal, should just be called Thompsons water.


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## Jmayspaint

I've ran it through my pump once and no problems. 
I used to be a Thompson hater too, but after many years maintaining decks I'm starting to re-think that.
Totally depends what you are trying to accomplish with the deck/ext wood. 
The main complaint about it that it doesn't last long. Needs to be done annually at best. The thing is, semi-trans or semi- solids don't last long either. ( about 3 yrs average) and even if you stay on top of maintaince you will eventually have to strip the coating. This is partially because stains are designed to penetrate into the wood. So when you re-stain every few years its not long before you have peeling issues because you end up with stain sitting on top of the surface acting as a filmed coating or "paint". Stain is not paint, as not designed to be a film forming coating. 

I'm starting to think these sealer products like Thompson are not so bad of a choice if preserving the wood is the main objective. 
Yes, it goes away quickly, but that means it doesn't build up too much like so many other deck products do. And i believe stripping is somewhat harmful to wood. The expense of doing it more often is partially offset by the low cost of the product and its easy application. 
Im not set on this idea, as I've only studied a couple decks done in this manner. If you wash and coat every year, Thompson will pretty much do what is says it will do: protect the wood. 
If you start with a wax based product you can't change products without stripping. And some of the penetrating toners like Olympic are similarly not as bad about build up over time as standard semi-trans deck stains. 
Long term deck maintainance is a big part of my business and I'm always looking for options.


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## Gymschu

Thompson's Water Seal has to be reapplied MONTHLY...........it may be the worst wood treatment ever created.....seriously.


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## ric knows paint

kt82 said:


> Hey Rik knows paint , will the Thompsons Water Sealer ruin the seals in my Spray Tech 1920
> 
> I am tired of pumping up the hand held sprayer
> 
> and just a thought ,what would happen if a sprayed TSP ??


Not a whole lotta love in here for Thompsons Water Seal, huh? Too bad, it's not a horrible product - it just needs to be recognized for what it is and not be expected to do things it's incapable of.

To begin, it is not recommended for spray app other than a pump up garden sprayer. Would it hurt your airless to spray it? I don't think so (unless you didn't clean it properly afterwards). But more importantly, would it hurt the Thompsons? Possibly. I don't know this for certain, but I think the minimum pressure an airless is gonna crank out is capable of shearing this product into a less-than-optimum performance. That's not to say it will - but the mfr doesn't recommend it, so I wouldn't.

I don't know that Thompsons is a wax based product...Although they're pretty tight lipped about their formulation, I believe it to be a petrochemical resin that provides the repellency...and it _is_ paintable (within a specific time frame) by both oil and latex coatings. 

I also don't know if build up is a problem with multiple apps over a spanse of time. When you consider the original Thompsons is only about 8% solids (that means 92% of what's in the can, and ultimately on the surface, evaporates to leave the remaining 8% as film forming solids) - and spread over a surface area of about 250 square feet - the most film build that'd occur (before weather, expansion/contraction and wear would diminish the film) would only be about .5 mil thick (1/2 of 1/1000th of an inch). 

In my opinion (not theirs), Thompsons Water Seal shouldn't be used on wood (especially not on decks or plywood). I believe it works best when applied to dense, vertical* concrete/masonry, brick or fabric. * Vertical, unless used as a concrete hardener/curing agent for newly poured concrete, such as garage floors, sidewalks or patio floors...

Spraying TSP isn't really advisable either...While many people throw a little TSP into their bucket to spray through the lines when cleaning, it must be neutralized by ample amounts of clean water. Keep in mind that a strong enough concentration of TSP can actually pit some metal surfaces. But the primary reason I wouldn't recommend spraying TSP is due to overspray and misting. Even at a more standard concentration, a TSP solution is capable of burning eyes and skin, plus neutralizing all the surfaces a TSP mist may actually settle on seems to be more trouble than what time may have been saved by applying it in a recommended way.

I hope that info is useful - but please keep in mind though that many of my comments regarding Thompsons are strictly conjecture...


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## jsheridan

Funfool, I've tried on a few different occasions to pump spray clears and toners, with no luck, even with those supposedly designed to do so. Just seems to clog. What specific pump sprayer is it that you use, by brand and model number, if you know it? I have a job coming up where that would beneficial.


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## kt82

thanks to all for the information . As always I should have been more specific.
I am sealing a limestone wall 20' x 100'
at least I did not get a bunch of "I don't knows"


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## ccarlisle

Let me get this straight: you're trying to seal a 2000 sq ft limestone wall with Thompsons Water Seal? Seal against what exactly? I trust this is outdoors, yes?


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## ddawg16

If you need to spray, may I suggest a cheap HVLP sprayer? I've used mine for that purpose several times with no issues.

As for how good Thompson's is? Well...I think Ric stated it pretty accurately. Can't help but think this is like the Behr vs BM debate.


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## Jmayspaint

'Seal Krete Original' is great for sealing masonry/rock. Will last longer than Thompson, and no problems at all to spray. It can also be a primer for latex paint


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## Matthewt1970

Thompsons Waterseal is a paraffin wax based product. The good and bad of it is the wax will repel water and oil long after it starts looking crappy so switching to a different product can lead to disaster until the wax has completely worn off.


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## ric knows paint

Matthewt1970 said:


> Thompsons Waterseal is a paraffin wax based product. The good and bad of it is the wax will repel water and oil long after it starts looking crappy so switching to a different product can lead to disaster until the wax has completely worn off.


I'm curious....why do you say TWS is a paraffin wax based product?


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## ccarlisle

No-one here has *any* idea of what's in those products, so forget the question...and the MSDS are no help either.


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## Gymschu

My last experience with Thompson's was spraying it on some wooden patio furniture for an elderly customer. It sprayed on nice and was an easy application. I did it in May and by the end of August the whole surface of the furniture was black, I mean absolutely black with mildew and dirt. I had scrubbed it all and cleaned it with Krud Kutter, allowed to dry before applying the Thompsons. I was horrified. This is just one man's experience, but, it was a bad one.


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## ToolSeeker

For stone I would look into LOXON from sherwin williams they have a sealer and it's for masonry a little pricey but they are having a 30% off sale this week and next.


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## funfool

jsheridan, I will tell you that I use regular pump up garden sprayers. I pay about $20 for them and they work. Is a pain the next time you want to use it. 
Will arrive on the job and it may not work. I have spent more money for better sprayers just for this purpose, they did not do any better and just a waste of money is what I found.

Anytime I have a option to roll and brush on the product, That will take longer but will be a thicker and better job done in the end. Sometimes spray is the only way.
jsheridan, would be interesting to know what you are working on that you need a sprayer?


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## jsheridan

I don't need it need it, but it might be helpful. I'll probably be doing 11 sections of wood fencing, both sides roughly 192 linear ft combined, solid bottom with 1' by 8' sections of lattice on the top. Conventional spray is out of the question, constant stiff breeze, passersby, close houses. Pump spray app with back brushing might make life easier. It's been let go for sometime and I'm expecting it to be very dried out and absorptive which makes brush app very tedious. I was planning on whizz rolling to apply and then brushing it in. Sprayer might go faster. It sounds like you have a similar experience with as I, and that's a waste of time. I'm not even sure what the material will be but it will have a pigment that will probably clog it up.


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## kt82

The brick layer recommended Thompsons vs the water based sealer the masonry store touted ,therefore the original Post


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## Matthewt1970

ric knows paint said:


> I'm curious....why do you say TWS is a paraffin wax based product?


That's pretty well known. Here are some Data Sheets on it. 

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=THOM&prodno=21802

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=20008008


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## ddawg16

Matthewt1970 said:


> That's pretty well known. Here are some Data Sheets on it.
> 
> http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=THOM&prodno=21802
> 
> http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=20008008


83% paraffin? Yep....that would make it paraffin based.....


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## ric knows paint

Matthewt1970 said:


> That's pretty well known. Here are some Data Sheets on it.
> 
> http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=THOM&prodno=21802
> 
> http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=20008008


OK, thanks. However that is paraffin oil - not paraffin wax. For the most part, paraffin oil and mineral oil are the same thing.


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## ddawg16

ric knows paint said:


> OK, thanks. However that is paraffin oil - not paraffin wax. For the most part, paraffin oil and mineral oil are the same thing.


Not exactly....that is like saying gasoline and motor oil are the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_paraffin_(medicinal)


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## Nailbags

ric knows paint said:


> OK, thanks. However that is paraffin oil - not paraffin wax. For the most part, paraffin oil and mineral oil are the same thing.


as one who grew up and worked in the Oil and gas industry till I switched careers Paraffin oil is the ingredient to paraffin wax. It becomes a wax at almost room temp. we had to run a pig through the pipe lines in the Gulf Of mexico to push the paraffin along and keep the pipe line clean of paraffin. And No Pigs were harmed a Pig for the pipe line is a Large Ball that gets shot through the line. Mineral oil is not from paraffin.


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## ric knows paint

ddawg16 said:


> Not exactly....that is like saying gasoline and motor oil are the same thing.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_paraffin_(medicinal)


(sigh)...Mineral oil, as it relates to paint, is also called paraffin oil. The reason I said it's "for the most part, the same thing as..." (again, as it relates to paint) is due to the fact that paraffin is found in a variety of sources, not just petroleum products. So...it's not really anything like your analogy, it _is_ for the most part the same thing - but as it relates to paint it _is_ the same thing. But, in regards to your analogy, they all are petroleum distillates*.

* and just so I don't mislead anyone, when I say motor oil is a petroleum distillate, I, of course, mean that petroleum motor oil is a petro distillate - not the synthetic motor oils, which may or may not be...


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## ric knows paint

Nailbags said:


> as one who grew up and worked in the Oil and gas industry till I switched careers Paraffin oil is the ingredient to paraffin wax. It becomes a wax at almost room temp. we had to run a pig through the pipe lines in the Gulf Of mexico to push the paraffin along and keep the pipe line clean of paraffin. And No Pigs were harmed a Pig for the pipe line is a Large Ball that gets shot through the line. Mineral oil is not from paraffin.


(double sigh)...you're right, but I don't think I said mineral oil is from paraffin. In simple terms, paraffin wax, as it relates to paint, is the final glob of oily, gelatinous goo left behind when all the solvents and oils are distilled from crude*...but Crude is not the only place where paraffin resides, that's why I keep saying "as it relates to paint". There are many waxes and jellies associated with petro-distillates, and each has specific weights and properties, and all have natural water repellency. There are some petroleum waxes and jellies that morph from semi-solid to liquid based on temperatures and/or agitation - mostly having to do with how much *mineral oil* remains in the partially solid product...

In the paint industry, Mineral Oil (sometimes known as machine oil) is also known as Paraffin Oil - but not to be confused with Medicinal Paraffin Oil.

* sidenote to ddawg16: At some point of the distillation line of crude components, between the hottest of solvents and the most solid of waxes (paraffin), is motor oil - nearer to the paraffin end - and those solvents that make up gasoline (heptane, octane etc.) which are closer to the hottest solvent end.

this link is a common distillation chart depicting where solvents, oils, waxes and tar(bitumens) fall out in the process...
http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/40234/Fractional_distillation.gif

I would also recommend reading the "Measurement of Oil Content in Wax" study conducted by Oxford Instruments via nuclear magnetic resonance...exciting read it is, and it refers to the distillation of petro waxes and jellies.


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## kt82

Fascinating stuff


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## kt82

Fascinating stuff and informative 
but should I spray Thompsons thru my airless ?


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## ddawg16

kt82 said:


> Fascinating stuff and informative
> but should I spray Thompsons thru my airless ?


Oh.....you want an answer to the original question?

We were trying to determine if you should be spraying Thompson's at all.....

You know, this is one of those 'full service' forums................

I personally would use an HVLP sprayer....easy to clean....and if you don't feel like cleaning it....toss it....especially if you buy an HF one on sale.


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## Jmayspaint

kt82 said:


> Fascinating stuff and informative
> but should I spray Thompsons thru my airless ?


It will be fine if you clean it good. Just like anything else. I've sprayed burnt motor oil and it didn't hurt the pump.(back in the bad old days before EPA put a stop to that) 
Thompsons is what It is. If it was that bad they would be out of business by now.


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## Jmayspaint

One thing about thompsons that cracks me up is on the cheaper stuff(45$ a 5 or so) it says that it will " let the wood grey naturally" talk about BS marketing, that one is hilarious


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## ric knows paint

kt82 said:


> Fascinating stuff and informative
> but should I spray Thompsons thru my airless ?


Personally, I wouldn't - for all the reasons I mentioned in my original response - shear, overspray, misting, but especially 'cause it's not recommended by the mfr.


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## Nailbags

kt82 said:


> Fascinating stuff and informative
> but should I spray Thompsons thru my airless ?


heck no! it voids any warranty and your sprayer is not made for it.


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## Jmayspaint

If you turn the tip backwards on a reversatip it will shoot it out like a hose. Doesn't atomize it as bad. 
Maybe just use a pump-up instead.


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## kt82

Ok I will buy a big pump up sprayer and spray the stone .Discussion ended,right?


Now what happens to the O -rings if you spray bleach thru the airless?


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## Jmayspaint

kt82 said:


> Now what happens to the O -rings if you spray bleach thru the airless?


Don't know from personal exp., but I've been told by a couple guts that tried it that it ruined the packings. Quickly too, one guy did it once and had to re-pack the pump after.


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## kt82

I have the solution 
they sell a pump up sprayer that hangs on your back
maybe 3 gal unit climb the ladder ,spray move on


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## housepaintingny

I would not spray bleach through an airless, as the packing a are not viton seals. I'm sure you would ruin the airless. If your just spraying bleach once then just buy a pump up sprayer. If you plan on spraying bleach again down the road then you will want a pump up that has but on seals. The backpack sprayers are are handy. We used to use commercial grade back pack sprayers that got pumped manually, then we went to back pack sprayers that where rechargeable, now we use 12 bolt pumps with deep cycle marine grade batteries, viton seals and stainless components. We spray acids and alkaline through them with no problem.


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## Whiskey 6

I've used TWS For Wood for over 20 years on my screened in porch with outside steps and ramp. So some areas get more sun and rain than others. Yes, I do parts over every year but it works better for me because it doesn't fade as bad as the color stains do. And after many applications most areas don't require re-coating. As for sprayers, which is why I landed in this discussion, I have never found a garden sprayer with an acceptable pattern that doesn't waste the product. And after i finish with the sprayer I just throw it away.


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