# 13 seer vs 14.5 seer



## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Might want to look at differences in warranty before looking to see if it has a ROI in energy cost.

Do both use on demand defrost?
Do both have accumilators?
Do both have high and low pressure switches to protect the compressor?


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## SKIP4661 (Dec 3, 2008)

May also want to make sure they both have R-410 refrigerant as R-22 is being phased out.


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## Joe F (Jan 27, 2008)

Where do you live? The 1.5 SEER difference will have a much longer payback time in Ohio than it will in Florida.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

texczech said:


> I need to replace my 19 year old heat pump system... I can get an eco temp 13 seer system or a tempstar 14.5 seer system... the eco temp is about 1500 cheaper than the tempstar... How do you figure the return for spending more for a more efficent system than the other? thanks!


If you spend $100/mon on your 13 you'll spend $100(13/14.5) = $90 on your 14.5 so the breakeven point would be $1500/($100-$90) = 150 months = ~13 years.

Is your reason for replacement in this list?

Don't want to sink more money into a lemon
Don't want to sink more money into a non-lemon
Can't get parts
Wants a more energy-efficient unit
Wants more comfort or less discomfort
It's leaking
It doesn't work
Not sized correctly
Size of family or structure changed
smells bad
gives me headaches (CO)


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

Yoyizit said:


> If you spend $100/mon on your 13 you'll spend $100(13/14.5) = $90 on your 14.5 so the breakeven point would be $1500/($100-$90) = 150 months = ~13 years.]
> 
> 
> hmmm i dont know of any where in the usa that you would use the a/c more than about 6 months out of the year so you have to at least double the payback time and then there is opportunity cost. If you take the fifteen hundred and invested it for a modest 7 % you would make up for the efficency improvement


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

Parts of Texas, Florida, and I believe Arizona.


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

YOURHANDYMAN said:


> so you have to at least double the payback time
> 
> If you take the fifteen hundred and invested it for a modest 7 % you would make up for the efficency improvement


http://www.eia.doe.gov/aer/txt/ptb0110.html
1240 cooling degree days/year seems to be an average value for the continental US 
and
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/degreedays.html
~3573 HDD [per 7 months?]

Plus, for reasons I don't understand, many people see no improvement in their utility bills when going to higher efficiency units, sometimes even with considerably higher efficiency units.


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## texczech (May 31, 2009)

My old unit is going bad & I need a new one is the reason I am getting a new one. We live in SouthCentral Texas and AC is definitely way more important than heating...


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## Yoyizit (Jul 11, 2008)

texczech said:


> We live in SouthCentral Texas and AC is definitely way more important than heating...


Yes. I was a 'guest' of the USAF in San Antonio.

But with the dry air a lot of people used evap. coolers.


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

beenthere said:


> Parts of Texas, Florida, and I believe Arizona.


funny you mentioned those 3 states. I have lived in all 3. I currently live in Phx AZ which is not the hottest part of AZ but I think it rates in the top 5 , and i don't turn on my ac unit until the first or 2nd week in June and it goes off about October 15 - November 1st that is 5.5-6 months . i was in Florida visiting family in July and I had to turn of the ac unit cuz it was too cold and I slept without ac. I have lived in Houston and near San Antonio and again I found that not more than 6 month of ac was need.

I dont know if i put it in the previous post but I discussed it with SRP my local electric provider about 12 vs higher seer ratings and they told me that you could never recover the cost of anything over 12.


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

Yoyizit said:


> http://www.eia.doe.gov/aer/txt/ptb0110.html
> 1240 cooling degree days/year seems to be an average value for the continental US
> and
> http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/degreedays.html
> ...


wow that chart made no sense. One problem is that it is based on 65 degrees and at that temperature i am more likely to turn the heat on. and i would not turn on the ac until the temperature is over 85 or even 90. turn on a fan yes ... ac no. Another thing you should consider is -does your electric company offer time of use-

but i think one option would be to ad more insulation with the 1500 but i guess that depends on how well your house is insulated.


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

YOURHANDYMAN said:


> I dont know if i put it in the previous post but I discussed it with SRP my local electric provider about 12 vs higher seer ratings and they told me that you could never recover the cost of anything over 12.


You should have asked them where you could get a new 12 SEER, since 12 SEERs aren't allowed to be made anymore.

Now if you had used a temp setting of say 74°F, when you lined in those places. Would you have used A/C for a longer time period. making the cooling season 7 moths or more.


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## Home Air Direct (Jan 6, 2009)

Just from a SEER vs Equipment Cost, here is a neat calculator. The payback in relation to savings will depend on where you live. This calculator will help determine that based on your power/gas rates and your degree days.

http://www.acdoctor.com/cooling_calculator.php

Good Luck

Jay


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## sdsheatcool (Sep 6, 2009)

*SDSheatcool*

You may want to consider this: If you era putting in the 14.5 S.E.E.R Heat pump and they are offering it with a variable speed air handler, you may achieve a 15 S.E.E.R rating. Which may then qualify the system for the federal tax credits that are availablt to residential customers. (30% tax credit on the contact price up to $1500.00total tax credit). If the cost of the upgrade is only $1500.00 and the contract price is over $5000.00. You qualify for the entire 30%(or$1500.00). That would make the return on investment immediate and the rest a mute point. You can read more on these tax credits @ energystar.gov


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

sdsheatcool said:


> You may want to consider this: If you era putting in the 14.5 S.E.E.R Heat pump and they are offering it with a variable speed air handler, you may achieve a 15 S.E.E.R rating. Which may then qualify the system for the federal tax credits that are availablt to residential customers. (30% tax credit on the contact price up to $1500.00total tax credit). If the cost of the upgrade is only $1500.00 and the contract price is over $5000.00. You qualify for the entire 30%(or$1500.00). That would make the return on investment immediate and the rest a mute point. You can read more on these tax credits @ energystar.gov


Also needs to have a 12.5 EER to qualify.


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

beenthere said:


> You should have asked them where you could get a new 12 SEER, since 12 SEERs aren't allowed to be made anymore.
> 
> Now if you had used a temp setting of say 74°F, when you lined in those places. Would you have used A/C for a longer time period. making the cooling season 7 moths or more.


why nit pick about 12 seer not being available. It does not change the fact. And you are missing the point -the amount of money that it cost to buy a higher rated unit cannot be recovered- they were still manufactured 5 years ago and I could still buy them up to 2 years ago for my rental.

Are you diametrically opposed to fans. Fans should be used in conjunction with ac. It might just be a case of getting used to a certain temperature. I used to be comfortable at the temp u suggest . At one time i lived in a house with evap and during hi dew point times i was quite uncomfortable. then 85 with ac with fans felt good. therefore if i am comfortable at 85 why set the temperature lower. You save about 1% of your bill for ever degree higher that you set your stat at. btw You should have a fan that brings in the night air and use mother nature to cool your house. I do that but it is a single fan blowing in my bedroom window and is quite comfortable (even have to turn it off some times (2 nights ago i.e.)). 



veesubotee said:


> YOURHANDYMAN said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take all of that modest investment that you have.
> ...


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## beenthere (Oct 11, 2008)

> why nit pick about 12 seer not being available. It does not change the fact.


Well. You apparently don't stay up with what is , and is not available.

Your also wrong about not recovering the additional cost.
A 13 SEER can easily be increased to a 14 SEER or better without a lot of additional cost. And return a savings on that investment.

Obviously you don't care what it cost your tenants to cool their places. Your not paying the bill.

Fans don't help much when its 90 outside. And if you have to run fans when its that temp outside, then the A/C isn't sized right.

Ceiling fans are nice, but not the end all to high cooling cost.


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

thx 
bill

_Your contact information has been removed_
_DO NOT POST IT AGAIN_


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## YOURHANDYMAN (Aug 26, 2009)

Yoyizit said:


> It's "you're", not "your". It's a contraction of "You are". Your is used, e.g., in "your house", "your car", "your wealth". . .
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


 
I rest my case as it were. I dint think you were worth the time to correct it. and yes i meant to say dint ... didn't is a useless contract. 


_personal attacks will not be tolerated_
_repeat this violation of posting rules & you will be banned_


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