# Backsplash tile to ceiling. Ceiling not flat.



## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

If it were me, I'd just add quarter round bull nose like you have to the right. It will match what's there and you won't have to re-do any tile. That's the "easy" out but other options will be mentioned by others who are more experienced with tile.


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## SPS-1 (Oct 21, 2008)

Or some crown molding. You would have to terminate the end like this:


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## Knucklez (Oct 21, 2007)

above ideas are better than what i would do, which is just fill the area with the same tile grout and use plastic putty knife to screed it flat. plus side, if it looks like crap you can still add the small crown molding mentioned by SPS-1


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I would go with knucklez approach. Many people find they don't notice it after all is said and done. If you do notice it, you haven't really lost anything - you can then try the other approaches with no harm done.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

The job looks great except for the slight oversight in original layout. To keep it looking good you should use the matching 1/4 round, as suggested by Gymschu. If that 1/4 round does not have the width you need, I'd find the matching bullnose or edge tile so the round edge is down and use it like crown molding - AFTER you cut it down to the minimal height you need to cover the biggest gap and then use that same thickness all the way around. The top where it meets the ceiling can then be filled with matching unsanded grout. (Alwasy use sanded or unsanded ground where two wall planes meet or you'll have cracks - sanded is for wide gaps 1/8" or more and unsanded is for narrower gaps. The caulk/grout will be found next to the grouts in your local store NOT in the paint/caulk department.)

And, here's the old technique for people that are still reading...In the old days we'd determine if there was a high point then use a "story board" that was marked with 1/8" more than the height of each tile (plus it's grout line). By holding the story-board vertical, each tile could be installed 1/8" more - by varying the angle of the story-board (holding it let's say at 15 degrees off vertical) the 1/8" overage is reduced, therefore, each tile location can be marked and a line can be snapped from the artificial point to the original layout locations at the "normal" end of the wall. During installation the a thick mortar and shims would allow you to meet that new location/line even if not level. The gradual difference, spread across the height of the wall would not be noticeable.

Bonus: This is the exact same technique used when installing clapboard sidings in the old days when you wanted to meet the bottom of a window and not have a narrow cut in the board. You can see this on old homes if you know what to look for... Now-a-days it's lucky when someone installs siding and the courses line up from one wall to the next... *sigh*


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Domo said:


> The top where it meets the ceiling can then be filled with matching unsanded grout. (Alwasy use sanded or unsanded ground where two wall planes meet or you'll have cracks - sanded is for wide gaps 1/8" or more and unsanded is for narrower gaps. The caulk/grout will be found next to the grouts in your local store NOT in the paint/caulk department.)


Not sure if there are typos here, but none of this makes any sense.


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## Mike Milam (Mar 3, 2017)

Just a DIY'r but I too would finish it to the ceiling and if it bothers you too much, add the tile quarter round.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

jeffnc said:


> Not sure if there are typos here, but none of this makes any sense.


Sorry if it's confusing. Let's try again. Let's say you have two walls that join at 90 degrees. Each wall is actually a separate plane (one at 0 degrees and one at 90 degrees). Any time there is a mechanical shock such as someone slamming a door, etc. each wall will have a different reaction to the force of the door slamming. Because they have a different reaction, they will vibrate/move/displace differently. Therefore if the joint between the two walls was filled with solid grout (made of unflexible concrete) the grout will crack. However, if the joint is made of a flexible grout, such as one that is similar to painter's latex caulk, it can flex and NOT crack. That's why they make colored caulk to match the color of grout. Plus, if the gap that is being filled is large they make one grout that has sand in it to give it some body and they make another caulk that has no sand to fill the thin gaps.

So, anytime you have two surfaces (or planes) meeting when doing a tile job you should ONLY use a flexible grout. Using regular grout will result in a cracked joint.

Did that help explain how the job should be done?


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

But using caulk doesn't help the OP with the out-of-square issue with the wall and ceiling.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Domo said:


> Sorry if it's confusing. Let's try again. Let's say you have two walls that join at 90 degrees. Each wall is actually a separate plane (one at 0 degrees and one at 90 degrees). Any time there is a mechanical shock such as someone slamming a door, etc. each wall will have a different reaction to the force of the door slamming. Because they have a different reaction, they will vibrate/move/displace differently. Therefore if the joint between the two walls was filled with solid grout (made of unflexible concrete) the grout will crack. However, if the joint is made of a flexible grout, such as one that is similar to painter's latex caulk, it can flex and NOT crack. That's why they make colored caulk to match the color of grout. Plus, if the gap that is being filled is large they make one grout that has sand in it to give it some body and they make another caulk that has no sand to fill the thin gaps.


Yes, that's all very well known. Unfortunately that's not what you said the first time  In one sentence you said to use grout where planes meet, and in another place you said to use "ground".



Domo said:


> Did that help explain how the job should be done?


Unfortunately, no - it doesn't help with the OP's actual question at all


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## dj3 (Apr 27, 2020)

For a simple and inexpensive solution, use a sticky vinyl tape to cover the gap, the same tape they use for bathtubs.


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## Domo (Nov 9, 2018)

jeffnc said:


> Yes, that's all very well known. Unfortunately that's not what you said the first time  In one sentence you said to use grout where planes meet, and in another place you said to use "ground".
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, no - it doesn't help with the OP's actual question at all


The original question was answered in my original reply - it said to use the suggestion from a previous poster - then, if that 1/4 round did not have the width needed to hide the "sin" to use a bull nose and cut it to the minimum needed to cover the gap - then, and only then I went on to explain the use of latex based matching caulks (sanded and unsanded) where you must use those caulk when two wall/ceiling/planes meet so that you don't have future cracking. Please review what was posted and forgive the few spelling errors an substitute the words that obviously must have been spell-checked from existance. (e.g. discussion of tile and the word "ground" showed up which most folks would know (due to my haste, perhaps) was meant to be grout as that WOULD relate to the subject.
My hope on these forums is that OP for any subject would know some of the most basic terms and understand when a simply type might be confusing...
Thank you for pointing out some errors that might confuse others.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Domo said:


> then, and only then I went on to explain the use of latex based matching caulks (sanded and unsanded) where you must use those caulk when two wall/ceiling/planes meet so that you don't have future cracking. Please review what was posted and forgive the few spelling errors an substitute the words that obviously must have been spell-checked from existance.


Hey man, I'm just saying you said to use grout (not caulk) where two wall/ceiling planes meet. That's not a spell check, so I pointed out that what you were saying didn't make sense. I see what you mean now, but your post was completely jumbled up and confusing.


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## mramj4 (Jun 7, 2018)

gabe0941 said:


> What would you recommend I do to fix this ceiling being off? Those are 1/16 spacers by the way.


I agree with a lot of posters about a trim piece. Tough though because you already have the top row in there. I prefer using Schluter trim pieces instead of bull nose because I like the look. But whatever you go with, a trim piece like that (Schluter or bull nose) would be better than, say a big fat piece of silicone or grout.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

Schluter trim isn't going to help you in this situation because they have to be built in when tiling, and even so you'd still have the same problem. I can't imagine how bullnose tile could help you in this situation.


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## mramj4 (Jun 7, 2018)

Schluter or bullnose would help if you remove that top row of tile. Since you didn't grout yet, it would save you some work if you went that route.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm still not seeing it. We have to cover a gap that is different on the left than the right. How is a Schluter profile going to do that? Is there one specific you're thinking of? Can't think of any way bullnose tile can help, regardless of whether you remove the top level or not.


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## mramj4 (Jun 7, 2018)

Since the ceiling is crooked, I see no way to level it out, meaning your top line is going to be on a slant. Only way to get it perfectly level is to fix the ceiling. However, IMHO, not a big deal. Every house has some weird thing you have to deal with, be it a slanted roof or uneven floors or something else. 

The reason I said Schluter is because they're easy to install. But like the guy who replied to my suggestion, you have to install it before the tile. What I would do is take off the top row of tile, cut the Schluter trim to fit the length of the wall, then tape the flange on Schluter trim to the cement board so it stays put while I tile, then put the mortar and tile on the wall (or mastic). Voila, then you have a nice trim piece on the top. The thing is that as you move left on the left wall (the crooked wall), you would most likely have to cut the tiles on an angle. You're going to have to accommodate the tile spacer between the trim and the wall tile.

Yes, you could use bullnose tile instead of the Schluter trim. That way you get a matching top and side trim. Whether using bullnose or Schluter, you probably have to remove that top row and cut the tiles at an angle to fit anway. I've tiled things on walls that aren't 100% plumb. Once you cut the tiles at an angle, it becomes less noticeable. Your eyes might go to it because YOU know it's there. But having the trim in there, along with the spacing that matches everywhere else, and the grout, it would blend well.

What's the alternative, putting a whole bunch of grout there? Or caulking it with silicone? Either of these last two will make it more obvious that the ceiling is off.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mramj4 said:


> The thing is that as you move left on the left wall (the crooked wall), you would most likely have to cut the tiles on an angle. ...
> Whether using bullnose or Schluter, you probably have to remove that top row and cut the tiles at an angle to fit anway.


Exactly. So the trim buys you nothing and is unrelated to this problem. You have to cut the tiles at an angle and if you're going to bother to do that, that will fix the problem and no trim adds any benefit at that point.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

If this had been a known issue from the get-go, IMO the way to go would have been to taper the grout lines. Another option would have been to start at the top, with full height tile on the right, and cut all the tiles with a taper at the top, so that the bottom of the top row is level.

Too late now. How about throwing up a taper on the ceiling and another layer of drywall to the ceiling to level it off?


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

The best answer was already posted in the first response by gymschu. In effect, what it does is visually move the tiles about a half inch up, or equivalently move the ceiling about a half inch down, and then tapers the tile top edge as if it had been cut at an angle. These are things that are difficult or impossible to accomplish any other way, even if you are willing to tear the whole thing down. It's simple, and given the fact that the wall is out of whack, relatively unnoticeable.


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## mramj4 (Jun 7, 2018)

Disagree about it not doing anything. Look at the space at the top right, it's much bigger than the space on the left. So without the trim piece, what's he going to do? Put a bunch of grout there? IMO, that looks bad. Big grout line on the right and then smaller and smaller as you go left? It looks unprofessional.

If you remove the top row, you can cut the tile so when you install it with the trim, you keep the spacing the same between the top tile row and the trim/bullnose. 

The trim hides the fact that the gap on the right is so much bigger than the rest of the tile spacing.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mramj4 said:


> The trim hides the fact that the gap on the right is so much bigger than the rest of the tile spacing.


So does simply cutting the tile and reinstalling it flush to the ceiling, just like every other tile job in the world. Why do you keep going on about trim that does nothing to solve the problem?


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## mramj4 (Jun 7, 2018)

jeffnc said:


> So does simply cutting the tile and reinstalling it flush to the ceiling, just like every other tile job in the world. Why do you keep going on about trim that does nothing to solve the problem?


What is more work? Removing the top row and accommodating for bullnose or trim piece? Or taking down the whole wall and redoing the layout so you don't have a wide gap at the top? Only way to get the tile flush to the top and still maintain even spacing is the second option. But, obviously, the first option is easier. 

And don't know if you know this, but I said yeah, bullnose too, which FYI, is a type of trim. But...since on the left side, you would have to install the bullnose over the existing tile, it pushes the bullnose out to the point that it's not flush with the rest of the tile, which IMO looks bad. It would make it look sort of like crown moulding, which again in my personal opinion, doesn't look good. And I wouldn't be happy with it. He's in the boat of the the tile looking the way it does, so at this point, I would come up with a solution that minimized re-work. And doing my suggestion of removing the top row, cutting at an angle and putting in trim (be it Schluter or bullnose - again, just another type of trim), is the least amount of work other than than just slapping a bunch of grout there.

As for why you keep replying to my post about doing it this way, I don't know why you are. It's my opinion on how I would want my tile job to look versus someone else's. You disagree with me, fine, ignore my post like a normal person and move on. You replied to the thread more than even the OP. Geez, get off it. Unfollowing.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

mramj4 said:


> You replied to the thread more than even the OP. Geez, get off it.


The OP has 1 post, you have 5. The discussion has gone past the OP obviously.

I understand your point about simply cutting the top row of tile, which can't solve the problem in this case. As to the rest, I keep asking because I think I might be missing something, but it's as if you simply don't understand what these trim pieces do. The purpose of them is to put a nice clean edge where people would otherwise see the exposed edges of tiles. That makes no sense, because a) the edge isn't exposed because it hits the ceiling, and b) even if it didn't you can't see up high from that angle anyway. And as for "bullnose" as you call it, the rounded edge is either going to be up or down, and either way it looks bad and misplaced.

You keep talking about the least amount of work. The least amount of work is simply placing something over the tile. Here's a picture where they did that and it looks perfectly fine. They also tiled the ceiling which is beside the point, but notice there they used the trim tile where you could actually see the rounded edge, which makes sense.


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## huesmann (Aug 18, 2011)

Still, anything you place over the tile is still going to show the angle.


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## jeffnc (Apr 1, 2011)

huesmann said:


> Still, anything you place over the tile is still going to show the angle.


Yup. But at the end of the day, tiling usually isn't about perfection, it's about illusion. A gap that goes from 1/4" to 3/4" is more noticeable than an almost full tile that goes from 3" to 2 1/2". No one coming into the kitchen would notice that.


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## JohnWL (Feb 28, 2019)

Rather than install a molding which would detract from the design, I’d be more inclined to apply a bonding agent such as Plaster Weld to the ceiling 3-4 ft out from the walls, fasten a 2’ wide strip of expanded mesh metal lath butted up to the grout where it’s way out of whack, and float/fare out the ceiling w/gypsum plaster or a hot mix of sorts. You might even be able to skip the lath and just float it out depending on the material depth.


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