# Need opinions on chimney counter flashing



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

There is no right way to install counter flashing without cutting into the chimney.
Top side should have had a cricket to direct the water away from the chimney.
PS what's up with the tiny shingle over hang on the edge to the roof?


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## carpdad (Oct 11, 2010)

Can some roofers chime in? I feel like the tail of a wagging dog now. Is it THE rule to butt the flashing and use caulk to seal?


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

If by butt, if you mean just lay the flashing against the stone or brick and hoping it's going to stay leak free by just sticking it to the substrate, never going to work!
Stone or brick has to be cut, flashing has to be tabbed over and set in a bed of roof sealant in the grove, and physically fastened.
No way is metal flashing (with the exception of lead) going to conform to the shape of the stone or brick leaving huge gaps, it's also going to expand and contract.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forums!

Are you sure they never let it in? Appears to me they did cut it in properly... looking at the over-cut top edge at the bottom and middle of this side (or is that black mastic..). Did you watch them?

Being only 16-18" wide; a cricket is not required per Code; "
R1001.17 Chimney crickets.
Chimneys shall be provided
with crickets when the dimension parallel to the ridgeline is
greater than 30 inches (762 mm) and does not intersect the ridgeline." from; http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/seattle/seattle_residential/PDFs_residential/Chapter%2010.pdf

Gary


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

joecaption said:


> PS what's up with the tiny shingle over hang on the edge to the roof?


It's actually the top of the chimney; this should be more clear.


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

Gary in WA said:


> Are you sure they never let it in? Appears to me they did cut it in properly... looking at the over-cut top edge at the bottom and middle of this side (or is that black mastic..). Did you watch them?


 No, they did not cut the stone. My partner watched them. These closups might be more clear.


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

Another close up. The metal used was double-hemmed which gives that folded look.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

that sure is a nice looking chimney. wish mine looked like that.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Bad, bad, will leak after caulking breaks because flashing tin expands/contracts at a WAY different rate than brick... just a matter of when. Easier to replace the mortar in step flashing, then just cut-in the counter flash, as said, double protection. Get it in writing...

Gary


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

Thanks everyone! This confirms our concerns. We had a stone mason out today and he said:

1. The counter flashing is not attached to the chimney in any way
2. The chimney mortar is in good shape and he cannot understand why they didn't cut into the stone or mortar
3. The black "caulk" is tar
4. The tar is going to be difficult to get off
5. He does not understand why the counter flashing is 12" tall
6. With the current set up, it will leak before our check to the roofers clears
7. The shingles in front of the chimney are not nailed down


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

We talked to the roofer and he is saying he has been doing roofs for 21 years and this counter flashing is acceptable practice.

He doesn't care what the internet says.

Any advice?


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## Cardinal123 (Jul 1, 2016)

I looked up The NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual, Fifth Edition. 

http://staticcontent.nrca.net/masterpages/technical/manual/06pdfs/06update.pdf


*See attached relevant portions highlighted here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6d2dk6lf...aterproofing Manual_relevant parts_1.pdf?dl=0*


*Counterflashing starting on page 507*
1. When the face dimension of fascia metal exceeds 8 inches (200 mm), special considerations are required, such as stiffener ribs, multiple fascia pieces or alternative fascia cladding systems. Stiffening ribs should not hold water.
2. A counterflashing is defined as a formed metal component secured on or into a wall or curbing or to another component, such as a vent, conduit or mechanical unit,
3. Counterflashing is fastened to the substrate above the termination of a roof system or roof component it is protecting. This allows for independent movement of the roof system in relation to the counterflashing. Counterflashing in conjunction with masonry walls, where the roof assembly is sloped, may require “stepped” counterflashing.
4. Counterflashings should extend over the top of the base flashings approximately 4 inches (100 mm) and have a 1⁄2 inch (13-mm) minimum drip edge at the bottom. Counterflashing joints may be lapped, lapped and sealed, fastened, welded or soldered. If a joint is welded or soldered, the counterflashing system should be designed to allow for expansion and contraction within the system.


*General Waterproofing Considerations page 764*

5. Sheet-metal counterflashings should be installed into or on the wall above the base flashing. NRCA suggests the design of counterflashings consist of separate reglet and counterflashing pieces, allowing installation of the sheet-metal counterflashing after the membrane base flashing is complete

6. Projects where single-piece counterflashings have been installed will require removal and replacement of the metal flashing during future maintenance operations.


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## hotrod351 (Jun 15, 2012)

mickey mouse mess. HAVE TO CUT INTO 
*chimney*


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## Adam_Reith (Jan 25, 2017)

Cardinal123 said:


> We talked to the roofer and he is saying he has been doing roofs for 21 years and this counter flashing is acceptable practice. ...


How I hate dealing w/ people like that. "I've been doing it for xx years blah-blah and _no one's complained"._
As if a "complaint" is the only criteria, instead of doing a good "best practices" job and conforming to code.
Builders like that move or change business names every 5 years, no previous customer can find them, so of course "no one's complained" .


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