# which is more reliable ...



## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

I dislike both of them but a slider has less parts to mess up and leak.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

There are pros and cons to each. Any compression-seal configuration (casement, awning, etc) will have better performance ratings, although I've experienced fewer service issues with sliders and double hungs.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

:thumbsup:


HomeSealed said:


> There are pros and cons to each. Any compression-seal configuration (casement, awning, etc) will have better performance ratings, although I've experienced fewer service issues with sliders and double hungs.


+1

Going to service a casement tomorrow AM.


----------



## firehawkmph (Dec 12, 2009)

I happen to like casements. When I was building houses, including my own, I used quite a few over the years. All Andersens. The sash is completely wrapped in vinyl so no problem with rot. They use Truth hardware. Mine have been in for 20 years now with no problems. They definitely seal up better than sliders or double hungs. Whatever you get, buy a quality window so you aren't redoing the job a few years from now.
Mike Hawkins


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

so, what is the problem with casements ? the crank mechanism i bet ?


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Fix'n it said:


> so, what is the problem with casements ? the crank mechanism i bet ?


The operator and the fact that when the window is open, it requires more structure and engineering to support that weight properly as compared to a sliding window sitting in a track.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep ^... And on some models that are not adjustable, those sashes sag after several years and cause problems with operation. I just looked at some 12 yr old Pellas that had several sash rails rotted and falling off, and the rest of them were sagging so bad that the homeowners actually broke the operator by having to crank so hard to get them open.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I am starting to sag after 12 years so that seems about normal... :laughing:


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i have been driving around and looking at houses windows. i hardly ever see sliders. 
probably :
49.4% casements
49.4% DH's
.2%(if that) sliders. 

i am leaning sliders. but 1 thing i don't like about them, is that the screen is always on the outside = more likely to get damaged. 
and, because the pains are offset, the window looks uneven.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Those issues are the exact same as double-hungs... The sashes won't look "off-set" when the screen is on. 
I see far more damaged casement screens (being on the interior they are wrecked by kids and pets) than I do dh or sliders on the exterior.
The size of your opening (ie: is it taller or wider) should play a role in the configuration that you choose. If you have a wider opening, sliders are more economical than twin casements. If taller, then dh's or casements are a good choice.


----------



## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

Personal opinion - I don't like casements in a heating climate. In any climate I don't like the interior screen and I don't like the crank. 

With a couple of specific provisions I do like sliders (vertical or horizontal) in a heating climate. 

Provisions (in no particular order):
1 - TIGHT-ly sealed
2 - when possible include a storm window
3 - Don't waste your money on junk - there are lots of sliders out there that are junk - in part because they can be made both simple and cheap. 
4 - GOOD weather stripping resulting in TIGHT-ly sealed

Best thing about a casement - can be sealed tight. This is a VERY good thing.

Worst thing about a casement - everything else other than they seal tightly, but especially how they "stick-out" from the exterior of the structure exposing the sash and glass package to the worst possible weather extremes.

Best things about a slider (talking horzontal here) - the sash / glass package isn't sticking out past the plane of the exterior wall - and they don't have an interior screen and a crank.

Worst thing about a slider - they can be made simple and cheap thus consigning them to the "simple and cheap" category of building products (in most cases - but not all - there are some very good sliders out there and oh-boy can they be expensive).

Best window design on the market when considering overall performance - tilt/turn or dual action.  

:whistling2:


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> Those issues are the exact same as double-hungs... The sashes won't look "off-set" when the screen is on.
> 
> I see far more damaged casement screens (being on the interior they are wrecked by kids and pets) than I do dh or sliders on the exterior.
> 
> The size of your opening (ie: is it taller or wider) should play a role in the configuration that you choose. If you have a wider opening, sliders are more economical than twin casements. If taller, then dh's or casements are a good choice.


ok, sounds good. i can live with that.

good point. one of my cats did to a number on my old screens.

sizes:huh: yeah. well, there are going to be a few different sizes. but i will keep the height the same, i'm thinking 3'6". except for, perhaps, the window over the kitchen sink. may have to make that one a little shorter. i want the top of all the windows the same height all around the house.
many/most, i am thinking around 3 1/2'-4' wide. 

the window in the laundry room will have to be a casement. as the room/wall is narrow. and a thin slider looks silly.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

oberon said:


> Personal opinion - I don't like casements in a heating climate. In any climate I don't like the interior screen and I don't like the crank.
> 
> With a couple of specific provisions I do like sliders (vertical or horizontal) in a heating climate.
> 
> ...


good points. except for the "worst possible weather extremes" thing. when that happens, ya just close em. and i didn't mind my old casements sticking out past the building. 

as far as price goes. $500 a window isn't going to happen. but i think i can do better than the $140 window at menards. 

what are tilt/turn & dual action, and how are they priced ?


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

ok, now. what is it about sliders that makes them seal not as good as casements ? i know that the seal compression is very good on casements. 
but with todays technology, i would think that there is a seal for sliders that would seal just as well.

i am still trying to find a dealer of GOOD windows somewhere around me. so i can see/touch them
(but in one of the largest markets in the world, chicago area. i am having a hard time finding them. sure, i can drive an hour+ away, but that is not practical ). but by looking at the ones at HD and menards. it looks like the seal around the glass, and the little fizzy seals, are the weak points.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Strong Windows, talk to Dave. He offers a few of the best products available today.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Fix'n it said:


> ok, now. what is it about sliders that makes them seal not as good as casements ? i know that the seal compression is very good on casements.
> but with todays technology, i would think that there is a seal for sliders that would seal just as well.
> 
> i am still trying to find a dealer of GOOD windows somewhere around me. so i can see/touch them
> (but in one of the largest markets in the world, chicago area. i am having a hard time finding them. sure, i can drive an hour+ away, but that is not practical ). but by looking at the ones at HD and menards. it looks like the seal around the glass, and the little fizzy seals, are the weak points.


+1 to Strong Windows.

Sliders, by design, have a couple of inherent weaknesses.

The sliding section at the bottom vs a more significant compression gasket of some type (i.e. like a casement or double hung) and the large meeting rail that is full width and subject to defection more readily because of the span vs the smaller meeting rail span of a similar size double hung.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> Strong Windows, talk to Dave. He offers a few of the best products available today.


yes, i need too, and will, talk to Dave. but i first need to make up my mind on what i want. any idea on what town he is in ? i HOPE not chicago, as i HATE going into that place.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

I am pretty sure Dave is not downtown at all.

He is about 30-40 minutes out of the city either North or South.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

His office address is:

6050 Industrial Drive
Monee, IL 60449

I am pretty sure that Dave lives North of the city though so you are probably covered on both sides.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

his office is not terribly far from me. i will check out his offerings. i sure hope i can afford them.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i just talked to Dave. he is going to get back to me. he doesn't have a show room, so i STILL can't see these windows


----------



## camping_mom (May 22, 2012)

I too am facing the same decision. The condo complex I want to buy into has the owners responsible for exteriors and windows, and the windows need replacing. We're limited to sliders or casement.

One advantage not mentioned about casement is ventilation. When opened, you have 100% of the window opened. Not 50% as with double-hung or sliders. If you have a place with only a few windows, that can be a deciding factor.

One disadvantage is that you can't put a window box with flowers directly under them.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Tilt and Turn would give you the casement look but still allow for and exterior flower box as the window opens to inside.


----------



## JackOfAllTrades (Jan 8, 2008)

The absolute worst window design in terms of air leakage are sliders and single hung windows.

The best air tight windows by design are casements. 

A well-built casement will last a lifetime. 

If you are looking to build an energy efficient AIR TIGHT home, you will NOT achieve that with a slider. As an air door test will reveal sliders as the weak link.



Windows on Wash said:


> Tilt and Turn would give you the casement look but still allow for and exterior flower box as the window opens to inside.


That is a good recommendation. In Europe, most of the operable windows are tilt and turn. Although not many American manufacturers offer tilt and turn. One will have to look at European window manufacturers that are based here in the USA (Intus, Bieber are two such manufacturers).


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

JackOfAllTrades said:


> The absolute worst window design in terms of air leakage are sliders and single hung windows.
> 
> The best air tight windows by design are casements.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of that, however I'd make two points:
1) The windows are rarely the weak point in the home regarding air leakage. I've been a part of enough energy audits/blower door tests to see that even "adequate" windows are generally going to be enough to tighten a home past the point where mechanical ventilation is necessary.
2) Yes sliders are the "leakiest" by configuration, however a quality product will still provide a very tight window. There are sliders that have air infiltration ratings of as good as .05, which is close if not equaling many casements, and certainly better than many double hungs.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

Dave has yet to get back to me. perhaps my email got lost somewhere. or he is really busy. or...


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

he got back to me. i may be able to swing the sliders. casements, no way(never say "no way". cause ya never know). 

one major issue i have to weigh, is that there is a good chance i may not be able to stay in this house for more than 2 years (this economy is taking a bite out of my income. and very well may bite it off). so idk if i should invest in something that i may not fully benefit from. after all, just how good of a selling point, to ignorant buyers, is OKNA. vs a well known name, pella(for example). 

anyway. i have to crunch some numbers, and chew on it for a lil while.

oh. they are okna 500 sliders


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Fix'n it said:


> he got back to me. i may be able to swing the sliders. casements, no way(never say "no way". cause ya never know).
> 
> one major issue i have to weigh, is that there is a good chance i may not be able to stay in this house for more than 2 years (this economy is taking a bite out of my income. and very well may bite it off). so idk if i should invest in something that i may not fully benefit from. after all, just how good of a selling point, to ignorant buyers, is OKNA. vs a well known name, pella(for example).
> 
> ...


I'd say that it is a major selling point because in 2 yrs the Pella vinyl windows are far more likely to have issues like seal failures, bowed sashes, air leakage, etc. (Since your are talking about saving $, I assume that you are considering their lower end vinyl line). Most people can tell the difference between a well built product and "el cheapo".
If a good product is not within your budget, you'd be better off not replacing them at all. The Okna 500 is an excellent product if you can swing it.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Go with the Oknas. 

Even in the resale value alone, they will pay for themselves.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> I'd say that it is a major selling point because in 2 yrs the Pella vinyl windows are far more likely to have issues like seal failures, bowed sashes, air leakage, etc. (Since your are talking about saving $, I assume that you are considering their lower end vinyl line). Most people can tell the difference between a well built product and "el cheapo".
> 
> 
> If a good product is not within your budget, you'd be better off not replacing them at all. The Okna 500 is an excellent product if you can swing it.


"if" i do not get the oknas, it would be jeld-wens. manards has what i would get in stock. $170 for a sandstone 4x4 slider. and while i am far from a window pro, these windows do not look bad. and would be about $2000 for all i need. the oknas would be about $3000, for a lil smaller window. 

these windows MUST MUST MUST be replaced. the only other option would be to board up the windows when winter rolls around. or a $800 a month gas bill


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Fixin, I cannot stress how much a a difference there will be in quality between those two. Please do a little more research and take a look at the structural ratings as well, especially air infiltration. I'd assume that one of the biggest issues with your existing units is that they are drafty, so don't replace them with a new product that will leak air like a sieve comparatively... Don't take my word for it, the numbers don't lie. I can't even count how many people I've talked to that put in "bargain" replacement windows, and now they still have to put plastic up over them in the winter.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i am going to see if Dave will bring a sample over. seeing as how i am DIYing it, idk what kind of customer service i can expect. if any. 

btw. the casements i had in my condo, did not leak at all. and in hind sight, i believe they were one of the few better quality features of the place. and i still put plastic over them. that made a difference.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

they are not drafty. they leak badly. i had to tape them up to just made them drafty. and they don't work well, those that do work. and single pane = need i say more... thankfully, there are storms on half of em.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

well. idk if the oknas are going to happen. Dave did not show up 2 times, he said because of his schedule. and i can understand this. but he said that he will not be able to stop by until he is in my area.
my problem = most of my project is around these windows. i cannot, reasonably, go much further without them. and i don't have months to wait for them = most of this
(windows, electrical, insulation, drywall) has to be done before winter. 
i am still trying for "plan A", but it is elusive . and i am checking out "plan B".


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

HomeSealed. thanx for your concern :thumbsup:

i have an idea. while i do not like to purchase anything like this, without seeing it in person. i am going to trust you guys, kinda sorta :jester:. i am going to see if i can order just 2 windows from Dave, sight unseen, over the phone. if i can.... after i get them and evaluate . i expect i will like them and order the rest. this way, Dave does not have to go out of his way for me, AND i can get what i want, in a timely manner. and, if for some reason, i don't like them. i am not stuck with a house full of windows i don't like.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

oh. HomeSealed. do you think i would suffer any kinda of penalty for ordering just the 2, cost wise ?


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Fix'n it said:


> oh. HomeSealed. do you think i would suffer any kinda of penalty for ordering just the 2, cost wise ?


That will really vary from dealer to dealer. For us, we do have a "small job fee" for installations due to the amount of jobsite setup, etc, but we have no extra fee for small DIY/Cash and carry orders. Other companies may, depending on how they are set up.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

as i expected. okna has not sent a reply to my email.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

In their defense Fixn, Okna is a very "dealer centered" manufacturer, so they really rely on said dealers to deal directly with consumers.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i asked them to direct me to dealers.


----------



## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

Fixn'it,

Okna takes your information and sends it to dealers for them to contact you.

Most of the well regarded brands do not have provisions for direct to consumer sales either and Okna does not have brand distribution at any building supply houses.


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

+1. More than likely, your info was just sent over to Dave, lol.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

well. it looks like dave does not want to deal with me. can you guys recommend a brand/model, that i can actually get ?


----------



## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Softlite and Sunrise are a couple more top tier choices that should be available to you. You may have another Okna dealer down there as well.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

ok. but i am figuring that i am going to have the same problem. as those people want to make a "complete" sale, not a diy "half" sale. 

i need to find a place that will actually sell me windows.
i just called a local lumber house. they sell peachtree windows. googling showed that are junk. of course they are kinda old reviews, so maybe they are better now, i doubt it.

people on here say to find a "lumber yard". so far, i'm not having good luck with that.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i got an email from Dave, today. we are working out some details.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

no more contact from dave. perhaps he is on vacation, idk. but, what i do know. is that I NEED SOME FREAKIN WINDOWS !

anyone have experience with "Climate Guard" windows ? seems they are made right here in the chicago area. 
and i "think" i can buy direct.


----------



## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

i now have 2 new windows. they are egress code 52x45" sliders in cocoa. i am putting one in very shortly now.


----------



## JackOfAllTrades (Jan 8, 2008)

kevinbrown966 said:


> I think it’s very essential to consider the extent of repair necessary when making window choices. And in such case Casement windows are the more prone repair window. I, therefore will go for sliding window.


I've had casements for 20 year and NEVER had a repair on them. I've also had sliders for 10 years and needed to repair 2 of them. 

As far as something being more "prone". If the engineering on the window is good and it is a name brand window, there are no worries about it being prone to breaking. Casements are great windows and are the best air & water sealing windows on the market. Sliders are also called "leakers" because they leak the most air out of all operational window designs, with single and then double hung following behind. 

I think you are making a bad decision by choosing a window design (slider or casement) based on "IF" it's prone to repair. Look at the manufacturer and warranty. Some offer lifetime warranties.


----------



## gsmckee (Aug 25, 2010)

You can find likes and dislikes in many windows as you search. It has been our experience that the company you purchase from is more important than the type of windows. Pella does not provide any type of customer service. Please do your homework. Keep your family from all the awful heart ache by selecting Pella. Marvin provides excellant customer service, for instance.


----------

