# Tool rules



## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Yep; the only way that I loan mine, is if I go along with them, and use them myself, then when I leave, my tools come with me. 

That way I know that they are only used for ED approved activities. 

And I get them returned.


ED


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

I worked for a GC once and his right hand man had those rules for his tools. One day, I mistakenly used one of his extension cords as I had forgotten mine. He never, ever talked to me again. Wasn't too happy with me using his stuff and I couldn't blame him.


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

As a general rule I do not loan out my tools.

About 25-30 years ago, I began acquiring my own woodworking tools. At the time I had a basic inexpensive circular saw I picked up in a pawn shop.

I guy I knew once borrowed that saw.

When he returned it, there was electrical tape wrapped around the middle of the power cord. 

When I asked him about it, he said that he had accidentally sawed through the cord while cutting a piece of lumber. As he is telling me this, he is laughing the whole time.

I did not find anything about the whole incident the least bit funny.

He did not even offer to pay for a replacement cord.

Granted it was a cheap saw, but I take care of my tools. I replaced the cord and served me well until I replaced it with a better model. I eventually gave it to a relative.

You just cannot trust people anymore.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

What is it about loaning stuff out that causes people to treat it like it's trash? Or, worse yet, they borrow it then it suddenly becomes THEIRS. I just don't get it. I used to loan out VHS tapes, DVD's, and blue rays, back in the day and about 70% of the people (friends) never gave them back. In fact, one friend who I highly trusted, kept my "A Christmas Story" VHS tape for 10 years before I swiped it back from his house. I don't think he ever watched it.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I hated when I loaned a tool to some one and forgot who I loaned it to and they never returned it. A couple of my guys would come over to the shop on the weekend and pick up a tool we used every day at work. Come Monday we need the tool and one of them would say, I forgot it. That really ticked me off, made them clock out and go get it and I finally started locking the shop where no one could get in over the week end.

I very seldom will loan tools now, except to a buddy across the street. But even he last time didn't bring back my wet tile saw for almost two months longer than he said he was needing it. On top of that, he hadn't even started to use it. Didn't use my tile saw on his job that time, I told him I would sell it to him, he didn't want to buy it.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I have a friend who will loan me his log splitter. It always goes back to him with a full tank of gas.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I seldom loan out tools although my kids do get preferential treatment. It seems to me that those richer than me are less likely to take care of borrowed tools than the rest.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

I honestly, absolutely hate to borrow anything from anyone. I just have this feeling that it will break while I am using it, and then I will feel obligated to buy them a new one. With this logic, I talk myself into buying it for me first. Then I will have it!


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## lenaitch (Feb 10, 2014)

joed said:


> I have a friend who will loan me his log splitter. It always goes back to him with a full tank of gas.



And that's the way to do it. I like to return something borrowed - even a machine from a rental shop - in at least the same condition I got it and preferably better or cleaner.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Yodaman said:


> I honestly, absolutely hate to borrow anything from anyone. I just have this feeling that it will break while I am using it, and then I will feel obligated to buy them a new one. With this logic, I talk myself into buying it for me first. Then I will have it!


Same here, If I have to borrow something, I will just buy it.

Loaning my son tools was like throwing them out in the yard, that is about where they would wind up anyway. That little dickens lost more of my tools than I ever did my whole life. He borrowed my mechanic tools and lost so many of them it was unreal. I had about three sets in one tool box. I gave them to him and told him he was not going to borrow any more of my tools. 

I bought a complete new set of wrenches and etc. It wasn't three weeks he asked to borrow my tools. I told him nope, ain't gonna do it. He said, I see how you are, I said, likewise. lol


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

My first memory of tool lending. I was about five, and my father had just purchased a shiny white Craftsman rototiller. I remember he tilled his garden and did some tilling for others as well. But it wasn't long before a neighbor asked to borrow it. A couple days later the neighbor brought it back with a broken wheel. He told my father his tiller had a broken wheel, thanked him for letting him use it, and then left. 

My father wasn't someone to hold a grudge, but over the next 50 years as neighbors, I don't think my father ever spoke to him again!


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

It is not just tool lending. It is also the people who use tools paid for by their company.

Here are two examples.

Once I was watching a crew take down a tree. I watched one of the workers who was using the chain saw. He would cut a limb and then just drop the chain saw on the ground or throw it out of the way. Granted, chain saws are somewhat robust but even they have their breaking point if dropped often enough. Clearly he did not care since he was not the one paying for the tools.

On another occasion I was working telco. The company provided all of our tools which were all Klein (i.e. not cheap). At the time if you lost a tool, you simply went to the warehouse and got a replacement.

We had one guy (we will call him Bonehead) who would sell some of his tools to friends when he needed extra cash and then go get a replacement.

The warehouse manager noticed the pattern which led to changes in company policy.

Now anyone who lost a tool had the replacement taken out of their pay.

The policy went into effect just after Bonehead had sold about $100 worth of his tools. When he found out he was financially on the hook for the tools, he scrambled to get them back from the people he sold them to.

In all the time I worked for that company, the only tool I ever had to replace was a pair of 6-inch side cutters. And I did not lose them. I was inserting a ground wire on the ground bar in a panel box when the pliers slipped and touched off the 220 line melting the tip. When the warehouse manager found out what happen he just gave the replacement since, as he put described it, "it was an on-the-job injury".

The point is how careless some people are with tools when they did not pay for them.


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## F250 (Feb 13, 2018)

Different take on the same principle... my wife does tons of canning and spent many years giving away jars of jams and butters, only to find that perhaps 1 out of every ten people ever returned the jars. My advice to folks who received her goodies was this... "Returning the jar is your "ticket" to a repeat gift".

As for my tools... they don't go anywhere without me.


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## Nik333 (Mar 1, 2015)

F250 said:


> Different take on the same principle... my wife does tons of canning and spent many years giving away jars of jams and butters, only to find that perhaps 1 out of every ten people ever returned the jars. My advice to folks who received her goodies was this... "Returning the jar is your "ticket" to a repeat gift".
> 
> As for my tools... they don't go anywhere without me.



Regarding your wife's jars, I'm pretty sure the jar is considered to be part of the gift. So, they may not know that she expects it back.


https://www.thekitchn.com/do-you-return-jam-jars-174351


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## F250 (Feb 13, 2018)

Nik333 said:


> Regarding your wife's jars, I'm pretty sure the jar is considered to be part of the gift. So, they may not know that she expects it back.
> 
> 
> https://www.thekitchn.com/do-you-return-jam-jars-174351



It's all academic at this point, as she has pretty much minimized her amount of canning and canned gift-giving... the cost of the jars and shipping costs for long distance folks make it very much not worth the effort any more. Only the rare few locals get any of it at this point.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

The worst tool "borrower" is my wife. I bought her her own tool kit and she still comes looking for my screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches, etc. And she'll never recharge a battery, or clean any of the ones she "borrowed". She's famous for yelling at me for having a messy work bench tho. I think that's because she can't find the tool she needs and figures it's buried underneath my current projects.
One thing I did convince her to do is to use a real paint can opener (instead of my screwdrivers) all I had to do was buy 20, or so, of them. Now they're _everywhere_ and she can't ***** so much.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

ChuckTin said:


> The worst tool "borrower" is my wife. I bought her her own tool kit and she still comes looking for my screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches, etc. And she'll never recharge a battery, or clean any of the ones she "borrowed". She's famous for yelling at me for having a messy work bench tho. I think that's because she can't find the tool she needs and figures it's buried underneath my current projects.
> One thing I did convince her to do is to use a real paint can opener (instead of my screwdrivers) all I had to do was buy 20, or so, of them. Now they're _everywhere_ and she can't ***** so much.


I'm guilty of this one. It's my husband's own fault; he buys me craftsman or husky and expects me not to play with his snap-on's ~snorts~ Why would I mess around with a normal wrench when I can grab the spinner ones he has and get done in half the time? 

I will however take the blame for straight-up stealing his 12v dewalt screw gun, I love that thing!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Mystriss said:


> I'm guilty of this one. It's my husband's own fault; he buys me craftsman or husky and expects me not to play with his snap-on's *~snorts~* Why would I mess around with a normal wrench when I can grab the spinner ones he has and get done in half the time?
> 
> I will however take the blame for straight-up stealing his 12v dewalt screw gun, I love that thing!


That cracked me up. :vs_laugh: :vs_laugh: :vs_laugh:


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

Mystriss said:


> I'm guilty of this one. It's my husband's own fault; he buys me craftsman or husky and expects me not to play with his snap-on's ~snorts~ Why would I mess around with a normal wrench when I can grab the spinner ones he has and get done in half the time?
> 
> I will however take the blame for straight-up stealing his 12v dewalt screw gun, I love that thing!


I would not knock Craftsman tools. I have an extensive socket set, 3-ton jack and jack stands all made by Craftsman. They are all almost 20-years old, used frequently and still work perfectly. Their electic tools on the other hand are cheaply made and not worth the cost.

Husky is also not bad. While probably not as robust as Snap-On, Matco or even Craftsman, it works just fine for the occassional DIYer or someone on a budget.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

Drachenfire said:


> I would not knock Craftsman tools. I have an extensive socket set, 3-ton jack and jack stands all made by Craftsman. They are all almost 20-years old, used frequently and still work perfectly. Their electic tools on the other hand are cheaply made and not worth the cost.
> 
> Husky is also not bad. While probably not as robust as Snap-On, Matco or even Craftsman, it works just fine for the occassional DIYer or someone on a budget.



Yeah I wasn't knocking Craftsman/Husky per say, but Snap-on's 'feel' better to use, more efficient, better weighted and balanced, etc. They've put a lot more thought into the design of the tools, vs craftsman/husky trend more toward bare minimum... "styling."


I don't use anything but Dewalt as far as battery power tools. It's not just that I'm obsessed with the high quality plastic black and yellow boxes either  I do have B&D sanders (mouse and belt), also love my dremel as well.


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## ChuckTin (Nov 17, 2014)

I agree that some tools "feel" better than others (and I've left Craftsman behind 20+ years ago) especially when your hand slips and OW!
However SnapOn et all don't feel all that better when I was looking at the prices. OW again.


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## Mystriss (Dec 26, 2018)

ChuckTin said:


> I agree that some tools "feel" better than others (and I've left Craftsman behind 20+ years ago) especially when your hand slips and OW!
> However SnapOn et all don't feel all that better when I was looking at the prices. OW again.



You just gotta look at the long term use comfort and effectiveness vs cost analysis is all. Our Snap-on guy comes to the house out in the boonies to replace our stuff. All in all it's well worth the up-front costs IMO.


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## SeniorSitizen (Sep 10, 2012)

F250 said:


> Different take on the same principle... my wife does tons of canning and spent many years giving away jars of jams and butters, only to find that perhaps 1 out of every ten people ever returned the jars. My advice to folks who received her goodies was this... "Returning the jar is your "ticket" to a repeat gift".
> 
> As for my tools... they don't go anywhere without me.


 I return those jars with a note attached that reads:


EXCELLENT, refill please.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

My wife makes an apple cake that the kids really like. One yr I bought her a new cake pan for Christmas. While everyone was at the house opening presents on Christmas eve I noticed someone else got her cake pan ..... well not exactly, it was one of her old pans cleaned up with a note inside that said 'more apple cake please'


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## ron45 (Feb 25, 2014)




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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

Years ago my neighbor used to make homemade Peanut Brittle, I received a Gallon jar every year filled with it, with a label stating 

"Ed's Private Stock."

She was an older lady, that I had semi-adopted as an Aunt, and was always doing things for her that she was unable to, so I returned the jar many times for refills. 

of course she was 40+ years my senior, and passed some time ago, from cancer.

ED


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## Mrbuilder (Nov 15, 2016)

Just saw this thread guys n gals. 

In my last 10 yrs working, I made all my employees supply all their hand held tools, including circular, recip, multi. If they fried a motor, I fixed it, or bought them a new one. I supplied the blades. Had a section in the trailer just for blades. Before that, I supplied everything, but got tired of putting new cords, feet, guard locks, buying new, etc. It's amazing how well an employee takes care of his own tools. They never get wet, never get lowered down a floor by the cord, dropped on the driveway slab, thrown in the trailer, you get the idea. Recip blades became a problem, so I had a meeting on how to properly use the tool, and that got better. 

The biggest problem was my son dropping by to "borrow" a tool, even when I easn't home. :vs_laugh:

I finally bought a stand up Milwaukee tool box from HD at sale time, NO MORE TOOLS DISAPPEARED !!!!!!! Has a great lock. :thumbup: 



just sayin' :vs_cool:


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## mpls69 (Apr 19, 2013)

My dad gave me a new in box DeWalt miter saw when he moved to his apartment. I already had a cheap Ryobi with roughly the same features so I didn’t open it. Lent the Ryobi to my BIL who returned it a year and a half later. BIL asks me to borrow it again so I just give him the DeWalt. Dad borrows the Ryobi and breaks the plastic guard off. They don’t make the guard anymore. 

Now I don’t have a chop saw.


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## Yodaman (Mar 9, 2015)

First, should have kept the Dewalt for yourself. And used the Ryobi for the lender.
Second, there is nothing wrong with saying "hey Bil, I need my saw back, I have a project coming up." Why put yourself out because _he_ is too cheep to go buy his own! 

Regarding the Ryobi, check ebay for used identical to be used for parts.


If bil doesn't want to give you back the saw, barrow it for a year and half as he once did. And never lend him anything again.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

I second the suggestion, of shopping e-bay, there are always many things there that are Ideal as a parts machine.

And see earlier my policy for lending my tools.

Only if I accompany them and am the only user of said tool.


ED


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## ZZZZZ (Oct 1, 2014)

Last year, the 9 year old kid next door asked to borrow my rake so he can clean up his back yard and get his allowance from his father, whom I don't get along with very well.

After a week, I asked the kid can I have my rake back please. 

He said no, he broke it.

I asked him did he get his allowance, he said yes.

I said, good, you can buy me a new rake.

He says no, he already spent the money.

I said, that's the last time I lend you anything.

He said, I won't need anything else, we're moving next month.

Moral of the story: it's worth a broken rake to get new and improved neighbors.

:vs_laugh:
.
.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

ZZZZZ said:


> Last year, the 9 year old kid next door asked to borrow my rake so he can clean up his back yard and get his allowance from his father, whom I don't get along with very well.
> 
> After a week, I asked the kid can I have my rake back please.
> 
> ...


Them moving would have been more than enough compensation for the broken rake. IMHO lol 

Kinda like I loaned a buddy (yeah right) an intake manifold for my 327 Chevy. He said he had one coming in a week. When I needed the intake I told him I needed the intake, he offered to sell it to me. 

Moral to this story, he blew the rear end out of his Chevy and had the guts to ask me if I had one. I said yep sure do, I have a pos trac sitting right over there. He said aaaaalright. I said but you ain't getting it. He said, I see how you are. I said, I saw how you were too on the manifold, remember. 
Love it, and all this was after I had helped him all night put an engine in his car for free.


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## de-nagorg (Feb 23, 2014)

bigjim said:


> them moving would have been more than enough compensation for the broken rake. Imho lol
> 
> kinda like i loaned a buddy (yeah right) an intake manifold for my 327 chevy. He said he had one coming in a week. When i needed the intake i told him i needed the intake, he offered to sell it to me.
> 
> ...


no good deed goes unpunished!


Ed


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## Drachenfire (Jun 6, 2017)

mpls69 said:


> My dad gave me a new in box DeWalt miter saw when he moved to his apartment. I already had a cheap Ryobi with roughly the same features so I didn’t open it. Lent the Ryobi to my BIL who returned it a year and a half later. BIL asks me to borrow it again so I just give him the DeWalt. Dad borrows the Ryobi and breaks the plastic guard off. They don’t make the guard anymore.
> 
> Now I don’t have a chop saw.


I can never comprehend people who do not promptly return borrowed tools (or anything else for that matter) and in the same condition or better than when they got it.

Years ago, my FiL loaned us his Olds Delta 88 (which he really took car of) because our car was in the shop. 

During the time I had it, the heater core went out. It was nothing I did, something just wore out. I turned on the heater one morning and got enveloped in a white cloud of vapor as coolant leaked into the passenger side floor. I immediately had it repaired.

Before I returned that car, I completely detailed it myself inside and out including waxing and engine clean. Right before we got to his house (4-hour drive), I took the car through a car wash and topped off the fuel. As I handed over the keys, I told him about the heater core I had repaired and handed him the receipt for warranty purposes. He offered to reimburse me for the repair but I would not take the money.

To this day he will loan me anything he has because he know he will get it back and it will be as I got it or better. 

I am also one of the very few he allows in his shop unaccompanied because he knows any tool I use will be returned precisely where I got it. He is very particular about this.


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