# installing oak stair treads advice



## mark942

Do you have access to the underside of your stairs?

If so, I would cut some small blocks to attach to the side of the stringer,under the tread. 
Bevel cut the 3 edges on the under side of your tread, as so you will get a better fit. All 4 sides of the riser.
Screw in your treads from the under side through the small blocks. I do the same process for the risers as well.
The first tread might have to be screwed and plugged on the top, because of limited access. I know of other ways to do this, but this is the way that works for me. Good Luck to you...........................................:thumbsup:


If down the road you have a bit of a squeak issue, just go under the stairs and tighten up the screw or screws on the squeaky tread. But like I said Access is


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## BigJim

Nail, and glue everywhere wood touches wood put glue. I used a construction adhesive except the ends and back edges, I used carpenters wood glue. Hand nails, I use 10d finishing nails, for my gun nails I used 2 1/2 inch. If you have trouble with the hand nails bending, cut the head off one nail and use it for a drill bit. Be careful, it gets very hot, also beware, the nail will soften and bend easy after a few treads.


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## lukeb

*Always use glue*

I would definitely encourage the use of glue everywhere wood is touching wood - this will help to eliminate any squeaking. 

Have you purchased your stair treads yet?


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## mrgins

DON'T use nails. they will squeak when the woods expands/contracts with humidity. Glue and screw unless you want to go overboard and rabbet the tread into the riser


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## Keith Mathewson

mrgins,

Nails are fine as long as you use constructive adhesive. The nails mostly act as a clamp until the adhesive sets. 

Squeaks have nothing to do with seasonal wood movement due to relative moisture content. The squeak is a result of the tread moving up and down against the nail when the tread is stepped on.

Rabbeting the risers into the treads is certainly nice but it is done to hide gaps from seasonal movement, not squeaks.


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## mrgins

Keith Mathewson said:


> mrgins,
> 
> Nails are fine as long as you use constructive adhesive. The nails mostly act as a clamp until the adhesive sets.
> 
> Squeaks have nothing to do with seasonal wood movement due to relative moisture content. The squeak is a result of the tread moving up and down against the nail when the tread is stepped on.
> 
> Rabbeting the risers into the treads is certainly nice but it is done to hide gaps from seasonal movement, not squeaks.


I disagree, especially when we're talking about something that is stepped on. Glue bonds can fail over time. Why spare the expense of a screw when it is good back up in case of failure?
Yes, the rabbetting is over the top but not just to hide the gap, it also provides another solution to a potentially squeaky area


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## bfan781

Thanks,
I have seen treads with nails that haven't squeaked before. If I use screws I have to plug them too. So If I went with nails, I can use my nail gun with 2 1/2 nails. What kind of of gun would u suggest? Liquid nails.?

Can't get under stairs either.


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## bfan781

Also , no I haven't purchased the treads yet. This weekend.


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## BigJim

Keith Mathewson said:


> mrgins,
> 
> Nails are fine as long as you use constructive adhesive. The nails mostly act as a clamp until the adhesive sets.
> 
> Squeaks have nothing to do with seasonal wood movement due to relative moisture content. The squeak is a result of the tread moving up and down against the nail when the tread is stepped on.
> 
> Rabbeting the risers into the treads is certainly nice but it is done to hide gaps from seasonal movement, not squeaks.


I agree with Keith, in my 41 years as a wood worker I never had any of the stairs I installed squeak. I did use a construction adhesive called F-26 and was the toughest adhesive I have ever used. I use Elmer's Wood Glue on the back edges and ends of the treads. I have several different nail guns, Senco being my favorite, Hitachi, Porter Cable, Bostitch, Pasload, Duofast and a few others. 

Using screws leaves too big a hole to plug for my taste and if the wood will shrink from a nail it will shrink from a screw. I had rather the wood shrink from a nail and stay glued than the tread shrink and be captive of the screw and pop the glue joint. JMHO and experience.


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## mrgins

bfan781 said:


> Thanks,
> I have seen treads with nails that haven't squeaked before. If I use screws I have to plug them too. So If I went with nails, I can use my nail gun with 2 1/2 nails. What kind of of gun would u suggest? Liquid nails.?
> 
> Can't get under stairs either.


I use trim screws. I've seen plenty of creaking stairs in my time so that's why I use them


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## Keith Mathewson

mrgins,

If your system works for you then by all means keep doing it. 

The way I install them is much like Jiju1943. One of the biggest considerations is to make sure that the stringer is clean, if it isn't then the adhesive sticks to the dust and not the stringer. I use PL premium Polyurethane Starting at the bottom apply a bead of adhesive about the same diameter as the size of the tube, coat the back edge of the tread (the part that butts against the riser) with yellow glue and set in place. Kneel on the tread to distribute the adhesive, then drive screws from the back of the riser into the tread. Finally fire 6 nails into the tread to hold it in place.

Personally I wouldn't consider using trim head screws. As mentioned before they leave a large hole.


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## bfan781

Keith Mathewson,
Thanks for your help, tips and advice. I think I am going to go that route. 
Two more questions for you.

Can the screws from the riser into the back side of the tread be tackled from the top. Or do you need access underneath. Is that why you start at the bottom to be able to get to the backside. What kind of screws do you recommend for that part of the job.

Secondly, will I run into problems if I use my nail gun with 2 1/2 in finish nails?

Thanks again for all your help.


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## Keith Mathewson

I use 1 1/2" Kreg screws. Starting at the bottom you can reach around and drive the screws.

2 1/2" nails work well.

How are you going to fit the treads? The cuts are never perfectly square. I like the Collins jig http://www.collinstool.com/base.php?page=collins_tread_gauge_ends.htm


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## mrgins

Keith Mathewson said:


> mrgins,
> 
> If your system works for you then by all means keep doing it.
> 
> The way I install them is much like Jiju1943. One of the biggest considerations is to make sure that the stringer is clean, if it isn't then the adhesive sticks to the dust and not the stringer. I use PL premium Polyurethane Starting at the bottom apply a bead of adhesive about the same diameter as the size of the tube, coat the back edge of the tread (the part that butts against the riser) with yellow glue and set in place. Kneel on the tread to distribute the adhesive, then drive screws from the back of the riser into the tread. Finally fire 6 nails into the tread to hold it in place.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't consider using trim head screws. As mentioned before they leave a large hole.


I had thought of this, but he only has a little bit of room to work in. I don't know if he has an angled drill/driver.
I hate to keep pushing the trim screws, but I'm assuming there will be a carpet runner on these stairs that would hide them


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## Keith Mathewson

Good point about the angle driver, I use a Dewalt impact with a very short bit but it can be tight.

Looking at your other post I see that you have winders, you cannot install winders the same way you install common treads- they will split if you glue them. You have to allow for seasonal wood movement. Place a good bead of adhesive on the walk-line only and lightly nail the rest. Here is a good place for the rabbet that mrgins talked about. There has to be room for expansion and contraction at both sides of the winder.


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## bfan781

Ok, going forward. I have take all the advice u mentioned 
Used adhesive on the walk line only and nailed everywhere. Coming out really Good.
Next question I have is with the treads. Some of the winders are deeper than the 12" so I need to add another triangle piece behind the tread.
Should I glue that joint together? I am not going to glue ends but want to keep the joint tight because it will be polyed and a space will show and look bad

Can I glue it?

Any other tips to keep the joint tight or fill in any gaps in that space?
Thanks


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## Keith Mathewson

Glue your treads up as a single board and then install. You must consider wood movement over 10". Here are a couple of links which discuss movement concerns. http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/09/03/moisture-content-wood-movement/#more-5162 http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54686


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## bfan781

Thanks Keith.
Good artIcles. Your making me nervous now. I am not leaving any gaps in the stairs just doing the procedure mentioned. Am I gonna be ok? I'd hate to have treads split down the road. I don't want them to squeak either. How come on the straight normal treads u can glue everywhere but on the winders u can't?

Should I have left gaps? They just look unprofessional and an eye soar


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## BigJim

Keith Mathewson said:


> Glue your treads up as a single board and then install. You must consider wood movement over 10". Here are a couple of links which discuss movement concerns. http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/09/03/moisture-content-wood-movement/#more-5162 http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54686


Keith, what is the average humidity in a lived in home in your area? I am just curious. Around here it runs about 50% most times. That was a good article, and I also had one customer who would run the heat up high for a week or two before doing the finish on the house, after trimming. There was no way to get the joints tight enough to stay in a situation and like you said, if someone was use to completely gluing a wide tread it would split, no doubt.


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## Keith Mathewson

You don't want to leave gaps, you want to make provisions for movement. The wider the board the more it will move. There are a few ways to deal with that movement. If the riser is plowed and the tread has a rabbet then the tread can expand and contract within the plow without having a visible gap. A housed tread can expand and contract within the mortise. Another approach is to make treads which use MDO as a core and veneer 1/4 sawn wood on both sides. This reduces movement almost entirely. 

A second consideration is what are the humidity swings in your area? JiJu1943 has smaller humidity swings than his area than I do in mine. Here is a link http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/fpl_pdfs/fplrn268.pdf . If you are building stairs in Portland ME you have a different level of concern than if you are in Portland OR. 

Turning the heat up to speed the drying process will increase the speed at which moisture content changes. Never something a carpenter wants to see...


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