# How to choose new windows?



## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it. 

What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?

What manufacturers? Pella? Anderson?

Is it a safe assumption that even brand-name windows from HD or Lowe's will be of inferior quality than ones purchased through a contractor?

What's the best way to go about finding a company to do it? Just word of mouth?

Thanks. Never been involved in replacing windows before, so I am curious as to what advice people will have.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

secutanudu said:


> My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it.
> 
> What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?
> 
> ...


Ask around and find the busiest, booked solid, renovation contractor in your area and ask him/her about windows. He/she will stop work for a minute and help you. He/she may not have time to get to your project for a year or two but will recommend someone good. His/her sub may want a few extra bucks to place new windows into the exact same openings. It is not a big deal.

However, make sure you are up for surprises like having to replace some rotted framing if the windows in place now failed into the walls. 

Under no circumstances should you buy windows from a box store. And, not saying they are all bad, but the subs the places hire are not finding work for a reason. Do you want them installing your windows?

I just replaced most of the windows in my Godparents house with nice gas filled, wood framed Pella's but would have gone with Anderson's in a heart beat also. My aunt is up there but active and loves that she can tip the windows in to clean both sides.

I guess it depends on what your folks can afford and what they want. Obviously thermal insulation. What other features?


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## Jkslate (Jan 22, 2008)

secutanudu said:


> My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it.
> 
> What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?
> 
> ...



Hello! I work in the window and door business as an installer, and will do my best to help you out. 

First off, both Home depot and Lowes sub out their install work. I HIGHLY recommend you stay away from them both, otherwise you could potentially fall into the dark hole of "installed sales". Which is a very bad place to be. You may be intrigued by their prices, but it's usually not worth the potential hassle. 

IMO vinyl double pane low-e (argon filled if you're in a cold area) is the way to go, unless you're specifically looking for a wood window. I have installed dozens of different manufacturer windows and personally I've had the least amount of problems installing Milgard windows. They are generally manufacturered well have everything you want in a vinyl window. 

That being said, do some research. What kind of locks do you like? What about the "look" of the window? Many vinyl windows look different and you might like one look over another, sometimes the low-e glass is slightly different color from different manufacturers, is that a problem? Do you not like slightly green glass? Blue? Etc. 

I suggest you find a good window company (kudzu, angieslist, etc can maybe help you here?) Word of mouth is usually best. Finding a good window company is probably the biggest step, once you do that, they can answer all the questions you could possibly have.

Good luck!

Edit: One HUGE thing. You mentioned you have old wood windows, this could potentially be a huge issue for you as in the 60's and 70's they used lead in the paint. Recently here in San Diego, CA in order to replace those windows the company must be Lead certified and do a clean install. The entire area must be tarped/plastic'd off and the installers have to go in with a full suit and mask to remove the windows and replace. Then clean the area thoroughly with wipes and hepa vac, etc. The area must then be tested for Lead and pass the inspection. This extra work unfortunately can translate to much higher costs to the consumer. I don't know if this applies in your area or not, you may be able to opt out of that requirement, but if you have kids, you might not want to. Something to think about.


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## kwikfishron (Mar 11, 2010)

Jkslate said:


> Hello! I work in the window and door business as an installer, and will do my best to help you out.
> 
> First off, both Home depot and Lowes sub out their install work. I HIGHLY recommend you stay away from them both, otherwise you could potentially fall into the dark hole of "installed sales". Which is a very bad place to be. You may be intrigued by their prices, but it's usually not worth the potential hassle.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on Milgard, they also offer a Stainless Steel Hardware package which is a must for casements and awning windows if your near the coast.

It’s also worth mentioning that their customer service is the best I’ve ever seen with a window manufacture. I have a couple of stories where they went way beyond the call of duty to make things right.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Vinyl windows won't offer the beauty of wood, but they will be better in performance, maintenance, price, etc, etc. Some highly regarded brands are Gorell, Softlite, Sunrise, Plygem, and Okna... Few things to look for: Sloped sill (as opposed to "pocket" /weep holes), manufacturing tolerances (you should be able to shake the sash in a double hung with little to no "slop"), weatherstripping (type and amount).... Without going too much further into detail, there are some companies that are universally regarded as high quality, such as those listed above. As far as the company themselves, stick to a local window/exterior specialist as opposed to a general contractor. As mentioned, check out reviews, Angies list etc, go look at some of their work, and ask them to go through their install procedure. One thing to look for is the use of low-expansion foam instead of fiberglass, labor/workmanship warranty, etc. STAY AWAY from high-pressure sales companies and the box stores.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

Jkslate said:


> Edit: One HUGE thing. You mentioned you have old wood windows, this could potentially be a huge issue for you as in the 60's and 70's they used lead in the paint. Recently here in San Diego, CA in order to replace those windows the company must be Lead certified and do a clean install. The entire area must be tarped/plastic'd off and the installers have to go in with a full suit and mask to remove the windows and replace. Then clean the area thoroughly with wipes and hepa vac, etc. The area must then be tested for Lead and pass the inspection. This extra work unfortunately can translate to much higher costs to the consumer.* I don't know if this applies in your area or not, you may be able to opt out of that requirement*, but if you have kids, you might not want to. Something to think about.


This applies anywhere in the US, and there is no opt out option. The only way around it is to DIY on the entire process. If not, a Certified firm and Renovators is a must....that is unless lead paint is not present. This can be found out from a certified firm when they do the test. Everything must be disclosed also in future sales of the property.
I went through the training a few months ago. With the proper funding now, this is the law. EPA fines are not petty either.

In our state of MN, we can't even get a permit on a home pre-1978 without being certified.


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## MJW (Feb 7, 2006)

HomeSealed said:


> Vinyl windows won't offer the beauty of wood, but they will be better in performance, maintenance, price, etc, etc. Some highly regarded brands are Gorell, Softlite, Sunrise, *Plygem*, and Okna... Few things to look for: Sloped sill (as opposed to "pocket" /weep holes), manufacturing tolerances (you should be able to shake the sash in a double hung with little to no "slop"), weatherstripping (type and amount).... Without going too much further into detail, there are some companies that are universally regarded as high quality, such as those listed above. As far as the company themselves, stick to a local window/exterior specialist as opposed to a general contractor. As mentioned, check out reviews, Angies list etc, go look at some of their work, and ask them to go through their install procedure. One thing to look for is the use of low-expansion foam instead of fiberglass, labor/workmanship warranty, etc.* STAY AWAY from high-pressure sales companies and the box stores*.


How does that work? Plygem around here is all high pressure sales and a huge markup with their own "_installers_". Do a google search.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

MJW said:


> How does that work? Plygem around here is all high pressure sales and a huge markup with their own "_installers_". Do a google search.


Honestly, it depends where you go. Around here, Softlite and Sunrise are the big "high-pressure, high- price dealers". I've heard the same about Plygem, Gorell, Okna, etc in other markets... Manufacturers would sell a snowball to an eskimo if they could, so the integrity of the dealer is really market-specific... I'll even take it a step further and say that anyone approaching $1k per window is a rip-off. A high quality product and install should be in the range of $400-$800 ea.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

...BTW, "their own installers" is total bs for any and all window companies, other than those "rinky-dink" local manufacturers. Even then, you would be hard-pressed to call them a manufacturer (ie: Wasco, Stanek, Champion) as all they do is purchase components manufactured by other companies and assemble them. It's like Toyota calling its vehicles "American" just because its Japanese design and Japan sourced parts are assembled in the US.


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## gulbworks (Apr 13, 2011)

Great advice Homesealed. Your advice is right on when you say to choose windows with sloped sills rather than pocket/weep holes.

I purchased six large double hung windows and all of them leak in the fusion welded corners of the pockets. The manufacturer refuses to believe that his windows leak. I performed a test on the pockets (I call it a tray) and found that all six leak. I blocked the weep holes and very carefully added colored water to the tray and after an hour or so, colored water had leaked from the tray welded corners onto the framing below the window.
I have offered to demonstate the leaking but the manufacturer has not replied. 

Yes I have advice too - Only buy from a well established reputable manufacturer. Spend the extra time to research thoroughly.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

gulbworks said:


> Great advice Homesealed. Your advice is right on when you say to choose windows with sloped sills rather than pocket/weep holes.
> 
> I purchased six large double hung windows and all of them leak in the fusion welded corners of the pockets. The manufacturer refuses to believe that his windows leak. I performed a test on the pockets (I call it a tray) and found that all six leak. I blocked the weep holes and very carefully added colored water to the tray and after an hour or so, colored water had leaked from the tray welded corners onto the framing below the window.
> I have offered to demonstate the leaking but the manufacturer has not replied.
> ...


That is a terrible situation that you have there, and is the main reason why pocket sills are undesirable. Have you taken pictures and shown them?


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## gulbworks (Apr 13, 2011)

HomeSealed said:


> That is a terrible situation that you have there, and is the main reason why pocket sills are undesirable. Have you taken pictures and shown them?


Yes I sent pictures cleary showing the leakage but they want to believe that it is the installation. 
I was told that they have sold ten thousand of these windows last year and none leak. That almost sounds too good to be true.
The manufacturer told me to put on jamb extensions, foam in the windows and install the trim/mouldings. He should have just told me to close my eyes and all would be ok! I suggested that I would not do that as it would be impossible to determine whether or not the problem had been corrected.


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## secutanudu (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for all the great info. I will get some more info from my parents as to what exactly they are looking for, and I am sure I'll have more questions.


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## Tangelo (Sep 13, 2010)

I would recommend you meet with your local building inspector for a suggestion, since they inspect the work after it done, they might have some suggestions either good or bad.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

EmilyP said:


> I'm not a fan of vinyl windows too many issues down the road.


I've replaced 7 year old wood windows because they were rotted out. Even junk vinyl doesn't do that.... Bottom line is regardless of material, there is quality, and then there is junk. A high quality vinyl window really can't be beat in any area other than looks.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank you Emily for dodging my points and demonstrating your total ignorance and bias on the subject.... Here is a fact: The vast majority of vinyl window manufacturers outsource their IG's (glass packages for you consumers), and purchase them from the same companies as the wood manufacturers (cardinal, PPG, guardian, etc). Therefore, your seal failure argument -which seems to be the basis of your argument- is in fact, _baseless_, and holds no water. As would your completely made-up statements about the glass not being made in a controlled environment, argon fill, etc. :no:Are you sure that you aren't a renewal sales person???:yes:... So now that we've debunked that statement, how exactly would a wood window be superior? Perfomance (DP, AI, U-value, etc)? Nope. Price? Nope. Warranty? Nope. Maintenance? Nope.... Did I miss anything?... As I said before, I sell EVERY window material, and I am honest about the fact that they all have their pros and cons-- it would be nice if you were as well. You might have more credibility if that were the case.


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## oberon (Apr 29, 2006)

Emily,

You so need to break up your posts into smaller, more readable sections. It is VERY difficult to follow what you are saying when you have one longgggggggggg paragraph.

If someone were to go to Duluth, MN to see the Marvin plant (which was what I gathered from your post) they would be in for a very long wait since Marvin's main plant is in Warroad, MN which is northwest of Duluth a few hundred miles. 

As HomeSealed said, there are good wood windows, and good fiberglass windows, and good vinyl windows. There are also junk wood windows, and junk fiberglass windows, and junk vinyl windows.

I can name vinyl companies who do label their windows just as the wood guys do, and I can name of lower end wood manufacturers who don't label their windows, just as the lower end vinyl guys don't.

I can tell you about a vinyl window that has a DP of 100, energy rating of U.15, and air infiltration of .003 CFM. I can also tell you about vinyl windows that I wouldn't put in a dog house.

My point being that you obviously don't like vinyl windows, but a long, unedited rant about the evils of vinyl really doesn't tell anyone anything other than you really don't like vinyl windows. 

Maybe if you used actual, verifiable facts (and broke up your posts into manageable segments), it would make for a more objective discussion versus "you said, I said".

Just saying.......
:whistling2:


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not even going to try to respond to all of that jumbled mess. Here's the deal though: You are trying to compare low-end vinyl products and manufacturers to high-end wood. Its just not a fair comparison at all. 

Just a few points: 

-Gorell, Sunrise, Softlite, Simonton, PlyGem are very well established vinyl window manufacturers with great reputations and windows that will out perform most (if not all wood products). DP 50, 60, 70_ IS _available on many of their "everyday windows", and they will have better U-values, AI ratings, Dp ratings, etc. Most are AAMA and NFRC certified. A well designed vinyl window will (IMO) use a sloped sill, not a pocket sill with weep holes as you described. There are various vinyl windows that have various "green" certifications (although again most are probably meaningless)... Gorell does offer hinged vinyl doors.

-Please spell Kolbe correctly. I think I've seen you write Koble 100 x's now.

-I've never seen HD sell windows for $1000+. I'm not advocating their "installed services", but I've not seen them nearly that high.

- Gorell has been energy star partner of the year for 7 years running, although that really doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot anyway. Again on the IG's, you are all wet. Most of the high quality vinyl companies outsource their IG's. Gorell no longer does its own either. You say that you aren't a slimy salesperson, then why resort to their tactics? Just be honest about the pros and cons of each product... although I guess that wouldn't work for you because you'd wouldn't be able to sell that many wood windows anymore.:thumbsup:

- Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't think that Pella is as bad as you say, but I don't think it is a world-beater either (plus their customer service is terrible). I sell them occasionally but I prefer Weathershield or Marvin in my wood lines. Even when I have sold Pella, I purchase them through a third party, and do not "receive any leads" from them.

You should really do some fact checking before you make a bunch of wild claims. Your points look like the script of a shady wood window salesman from 20 years ago.... btw, what exactly is fibrex made out of? Vinyl and sawdust. Clearly superior.:laughing:


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## Jkslate (Jan 22, 2008)

Mangled horse carcass..



Mmmmmmmmmm


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

EmilyP said:


> Funny, you learn how to spell ANDERSEN correctly on your website.:laughing:
> 
> Great advertisment. :huh: More customers are gonna see your mis-spelled word than mine (check out your website)and I will spell Kolbe & Kolbe correctly. There is no Anderson Company any more, they went out of business years ago, in the early 90's. Unless your still installing Ander-s-o-n Windows, from years ago. I was typing fast and didn't spell check, I apologize for the mis spelled word "koble."
> Understood. I'll be sure to point that out to my web guy... BTW, you spelled ADVERTISEMENT wrong.:laughing:
> ...


Very true, just as _EVERY_ manufacturer claims to have the _BEST_ product. That is why it is incumbent upon dealers/installation companies to provide an *honest* assessment of each option. You might consider such an approach.


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## thedeeperyougo (May 16, 2011)

*Windows Coupon*

Stumbled upon this and thought it was too good not to share. People in the Toronto area have a whole month to redeem this excellent offer.


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## DangerMouse (Jul 17, 2008)

thedeeperyougo said:


> Stumbled upon this and thought it was too good not to share. People in the Toronto area have a whole month to redeem this excellent offer.


This is the second ad we've removed from your posts, the next will result in a ban as a spammer.

DM


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

oberon said:


> Emily,
> 
> You so need to break up your posts into smaller, more readable sections. It is VERY difficult to follow what you are saying when you have one longgggggggggg paragraph.


Required reading.

My short few days looking into windows has brought a few points to my attention:



*Know your models, and options.* That good deal might be for a 5050 model instead of 5500, with 2.5mm glass instead of 3mm set into a cheap frame.
*Understand your needs.* Do you need security glass, low U-factor, or low-E? Would an Energy Star audit provide any value? Auditors aren't here to sell me anything, and could have good information for pre-purchase decisions.
*Consider the style.* I'm replacing double-hung windows with two casements and a picture. I have a chance here to change the colors, go with simulated wood grain or veneer, or whatnot. This changes the costs, but also allows development of better goals.


A window isn't just a plastic frame and a piece of glass. It's an insulating barrier, solar filter, sound dampener, forced entry risk, air seal, ventilation, visual element, and complex mechanical system. Consider all of these. Will it require excessive maintenance, or break down? Will it seal poorly? Does it need to open at all?

I'm eschewing window ACs and fans in favor of central air, so I've opted for more Casement windows lately.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

Very well said bluefox.


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## bluefoxicy (Nov 5, 2012)

HomeSealed said:


> Very well said bluefox.


Not entirely. I messed up the list: "it's a ventilation" doesn't make sense.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 3, 2008)

bluefoxicy said:


> Not entirely. I messed up the list: "it's a ventilation" doesn't make sense.


It does if you have an Italian accent :thumbup:
...The really funny thing is that this thread is three years old! Steven012 must have been doing some digging.


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