# My new 200AMP Homeline Square D



## rlineberg (May 7, 2010)

I just purchased my new 200amp service panel and noticed right away there aren't separate grounding bars. It looks like the ground wire is supposed to attach right next to the neutral lug. Is this right or do I have to buy separate grounding buses and install them?


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

For a service with the main disconnect the ground a neutral are connected together.


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

Is it a main breaker panel? If it is the ground and neutral are tied together in the panel by either the neutral bar being mounted right to the can or via a bonding screw. Square-D panels usually come with a grounding bar in a bag inside the panel but not if it is a factory installed main breaker panel.


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## rlineberg (May 7, 2010)

joed said:


> For a service with the main disconnect the ground a neutral are connected together.


I know they are supposed to be if it is not a sub-panel, but why the bonding screw if the neutral and ground are already connected?



sparks1up said:


> Is it a main breaker panel?


It is the main breaker panel. Very simple back to back to the meter base... no sub-panels or external disconnects. Just a big 'ol 200amp main breaker at the top.


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

I edited my original response! Look up!


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## rlineberg (May 7, 2010)

I found a picture online that is simular to my set-up.

http://media.wiley.com/assets/1156/02/0-471-91830-X_0202.jpg

It looks like they tied the ground directly next to the neutral. Is this acceptable?


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## sparks1up (May 5, 2010)

The panel in the picture has the bonding screw installed and as you can see all the grounds and neutrals sharing the same neutral/ground bars! If it is bonded you can do that but if you would prefer to run to a separate bar you can buy it wherever you bought the panel! But it is not necessary.

I have been known to steal the old neutral bar from the panel I took out and drill and tap and screw it to the back of the panel and use that as a ground bar.


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## rlineberg (May 7, 2010)

sparks1up said:


> I have been known to steal the old neutral bar from the panel I took out and drill and tap and screw it to the back of the panel and use that as a ground bar.


sneaky, sneaky


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

rlineberg said:


> I know they are supposed to be if it is not a sub-panel, but why the bonding screw if the neutral and ground are already connect
> 
> The bonding screw bonds the tub(panel box) to the neutral.


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## md2lgyk (Jan 6, 2009)

I installed that exact panel in the log home I'm building. It did not come with a ground bar. The instructions specified which part number to buy. There's actually room for two ground bars, one on each side. Certainly made wiring easier.


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## etbrown4 (Oct 17, 2009)

*bonding screw*

In a Sq D homeline panel we have a neutral bar and a ground bar.

Is the neutral bar on the right or left?

We tried a few of the open holes in the bar on the left but the green screw would not start.

Would that mean that we should try an open hole on the bar on the right?


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## MisterZ (Nov 29, 2011)

typical Square D panels have both bus bars tied together. if this the main panel you should install the bonding screw to connect the tub to the bus, unless there is a disconnect between meter and main.
if this is a sub panel you must install separate grounding bars to isolate neutral from ground, and do NOT use the bonding screw

to answer you actual question, use an Ohm meter to test the bus bars for continuity. this will prove whether they are connected to each other or not
if it has a separate ground bar, you should be able to see easily enough that it stands alone in the box(no obvious connection to any other part)


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

etbrown4 said:


> In a Sq D homeline panel we have a neutral bar and a ground bar.
> 
> Is the neutral bar on the right or left?
> 
> ...


The bonding screw does not go into one of the holes in the bar. It goes through a hole at the top and into the back box of the panel.

I am really beginning to think they should not sell panels at home centers any more. :icon_rolleyes:


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## jimmy21 (Jul 2, 2008)

Is this your first point of disconnect? As in, does your meter base have a disconnect?


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## etbrown4 (Oct 17, 2009)

This is service equipment. So there is no disconnect. We know we hve to install the bonding screw and why. 

Just looking for the magic location!

Thanks for any tips.


.....
A special note to Petey.

Petey, I'm sure you have helped many folks with your expert electrical advice, and they all owe you a debt of gratitude! It is very kind of you. 

As we all know, panel installations must be inspected by an electrical inspector, so we know they will be safe and compliant when completed.

We can't help or save those who do non-compliant work. Just like we could not save all those bootleggers who broke the law during prohibition.

It seems to me that the name if this forum is "diychatroom". That is, it is intended for do-it-yourselfers, and not for pros.

It is awesome that you give such great advice, however you might save us of any implicit criticism about what home centers might or might not sell. It seems that you would be enthusiastic about helping DIY folks get their installations just right. 

On the other hand if you don't feel comfortable with DIY folks doing electrical work, then perhaps that category should be removed from this and all DIY forums, and all those questions and advice should be reserved for pros. But that defeats the very purpose of a DIY forum doesn't it?:huh:

Either way, I really appreciate your advice on where to find the pesky bonding screw location, as I was looking in the wrong place, and still don't see the right one!


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## MisterZ (Nov 29, 2011)

typically you will find the spot for the bonding screw on the top middle between the two bus bars
or, as you look above the main breaker there is a chrome bar that runs horizontile between the bus bars. in the middle there is a hole for the screw

some have the bonding screw attached to a rod which gets screwed to the bus bar

this is the usual setup. see the pic below green screw goes there









here is a pic of the other style:


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## frenchelectrican (Apr 12, 2006)

The 200 amp Homeline panel avce main breaker the bonding screw will be located at top right of neutal bussbar it will have special slot for bonding screw to go in { they are self tapper so it will be little tight at first but once get thru it will lock in good } that is only avce main disconneting point but if you used this panel for subpanel purpose then you have to ditch that bonding screw.

Once you ditch it then you can get new grounding bussbar they are about 10 Euros ( get the largest one so you have plenty to install the ground conductors )

Merci,
Marc


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

MisterZ said:


> typically you will find the spot for the bonding screw on the top middle between the two bus bars..............
> 
> 
> here is a pic of the other style:...........[/IMG]


You make it seem as if there are only these two types of main bonding jumper.

The first image is Sq D QO. Sq D HOM has the same screw but off center. QO & HOM panels are completely different.
The other pic is Cutler Hammer. 
Siemens typically uses a strap. 
Murray used a long screw through the neutral bar with a tubular spacer in between. 

There are many different types of bonding jumpers.


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## brric (Mar 5, 2010)

MisterZ said:


> typically you will find the spot for the bonding screw on the top middle between the two bus bars
> or, as you look above the main breaker there is a chrome bar that runs horizontile between the bus bars. in the middle there is a hole for the screw
> 
> some have the bonding screw attached to a rod which gets screwed to the bus bar
> ...


 Excellent examples. I am sure you are aware, but others please note, remove the tag before installing the screw.


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## pokey (Nov 24, 2011)

this forum is for diy folks and there is plenty of help from pros and non pros alike. however, installing a panel if you are not experienced can be dangerous to say the least. I think petey is a real pro and does not want to see any one get hurt. Or burn their house done. it might not be a bad idea to have a licensed pro at least check out your plan and certainly have it inspected when complete. safety is foremost.in this instance the cost is second. be safe


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## MisterZ (Nov 29, 2011)

thank you Speedy Petey. i was referring only to Square D Hom boxes as the title describes. the second pic was simply to show there were other styles as well
it was not my intetion to suggest there are only one or two different scenarios for bonding screws

@pokey i agree, if there is any doubt about what to do, consult a professional. the cost of mistakes with electricity is more than the fees of an experienced electrician


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

Got it Z. Sorry.


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## etbrown4 (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks to MisterZ, brric, and FrenchElectrician, I finally figured this out. It turns out that FrenchElectrician said it exactly right!

In a Homeline 4040, 4030. or 4020 main breaker panel, the bonding screw goes in at the top right - just to the right of the right side hot wire line lug.

There is an aluminum band which extends across the top of the panel, just above the main breaker, and it's about 1/2"-5/8" high by maybe 9-10" long. The bonding screw goes in at the far right side of that aluminum band. If you look carefully you can see the threaded hole in the can, behind it.

IMO, Square D packages a lousy or almost non-existent installation manual with this panel. No doubt they want to avoid liability on the one hand, or to maybe save printing paper on the other, but they could easily have provided a drawing of the location for the screw, and said "if required by code."

No DIY person is going to figure this out IMO or even if he guesses, he will not know for sure if he has it right. The otherwise very knowledgeable fellow at HD said it screwed into an open hole in the skinny multi-hole neutral buss, and that's a case where home centers should have better trained personnel - or give no advice at all. I guess this is where forums like this or the electrical inspector save the day! The electrical inspection is the final safety net for licensed electricians and for diy'ers alike.

Electricians would know because they've seen similar arrangements, and they know where to look!

Thank you DIY Chatroom!


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