# Quality of Drywall work?



## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi,
I've got someone doing some house projects for me who is a construction worker by day and was referred to me by the company he works for since I needed help with small jobs only.

I had him put a wall partition between two rooms that the previous owner turned into one big room. I also had him add a door to the hall.

He's being paid hourly by me but am not sure if he is on the right track for the finish work. The framing work looked good but the drywall, corner beads, and hall tear out look questionable. I'm not sure if I'm overreacting.

He plans to mud with Westpac Red Dot Joint Compound. 

Here's what is worrying me:

1. On one wall he used two 4x8 sheets horizontal and there is a gap of about 1/2" at the ceiling. Won't joint compound crack, etc for that size of gap?

2. The cornerbead looks really crooked or not super flush with the corners or maybe the drywall cuts were rough. Is that a big deal? It looks like a ton of mud would be required to make it square.

3. I found a couple sections where two drywall panels aren't very flush, he may not be done putting screws in.

4. When he tore the opening for the hall, it looks like he saw'd in some areas and hammer/chisel or who knows what for the top.. is that an indicator of problems?

5. Some drywall panels seem to have edges shoved to tight and causing the corner to break a little. I'm not sure if that's just a matter of cutting with a razor and mudding over?

I'm considering putting a stop to it, and doing it myself little by little with patience if any of the work so far is questionable. He seems to have more carpentry experience but am not entirely sure. I can ask him to clean up edges, flatten panels, make that corner bead better.. etc.. but am not sure if the current state is any indicator or if I should be patient and let him continue and maybe I'm overreacting since it's no where near finished. I also think maybe he doesn't have all the right tools to cut through drywall? He was beating on stuff which I don't like because it may have caused cracking on other areas in the hallway I don't want to touch nor paint, etc but I don't know if he was just trying to avoid cutting into a stud with a saw so he hammered it out. Any advice?


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

more photos


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

#1 - a gap of that size should be prefilled with a setting compound prior to taping.
#2 - the first corner bead pic looks like it's not been secured to the wall. All corner bead should be tight, straight and secure.
#3 - it's best for the drywall pieces to be fairly flush. Can you push it in or is it solid, if solid it's an issue with the framing.
#4 - not very professional but easy to fix - just finish cutting it out evenly
#5 - that happens some times - no big deal

Overall mistakes and such in drywall are easy to fix, just requires a little extra work.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> #1 - a gap of that size should be prefilled with a setting compound prior to taping.
> #2 - the first corner bead pic looks like it's not been secured to the wall. All corner bead should be tight, straight and secure.
> #3 - it's best for the drywall pieces to be fairly flush. Can you push it in or is it solid, if solid it's an issue with the framing.
> #4 - not very professional but easy to fix - just finish cutting it out evenly
> ...


Thanks. For the two panels uneven, I can push in a little so maybe just needs more screws.

For the 1/2" gaps, I should get "wet mud" to fill that first and then sand and then put the tape for that ceiling to wall edge?

I might decide to do the rest of the drywall work myself. I could see this person wanting to use just joint compound to fill and finish it all up instead of using wet mud in places with big gaps, etc.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

What do you mean by 'wet mud' ?
You can use regular ready mixed joint compound to prefill but it might take 2 coats. I never sand prefill - it doesn't have to be level or completely fill the gap. You need enough where the mud under the tape won't be too thick and comprise the tapes bond with the wall. For me, using a setting compound is quicker/easier especially since I always have some on hand.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> What do you mean by 'wet mud' ?
> You can use regular ready mixed joint compound to prefill but it might take 2 coats. I never sand prefill - it doesn't have to be level or completely fill the gap. You need enough where the mud under the tape won't be too thick and comprise the tapes bond with the wall. For me, using a setting compound is quicker/easier especially since I always have some on hand.


Sorry I meant to say Hot mud.

Will the westpac red dot be a good choice to use for both prefilling the gap and then doing the rest of the mud work? I can wait 24 hours for it to dry.. I may also try a setting compound it it's not too expensive.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While I'm not familiar with that particular brand - it should be fine. All purpose mud has more adhesion properties than the light weight mud. They don't sell boxes of mud around here but I have lived where they do. You'll want a clean 5 gallon bucket and lid to mix and transfer the mud to.

Hot mud [setting compound] speeds things up but isn't as novice friendly as the ready mix mud.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> While I'm not familiar with that particular brand - it should be fine. All purpose mud has more adhesion properties than the light weight mud. They don't sell boxes of mud around here but I have lived where they do. You'll want a clean 5 gallon bucket and lid to mix and transfer the mud to.
> 
> Hot mud [setting compound] speeds things up but isn't as novice friendly as the ready mix mud.


Oh ok thanks, so I'm thinking it's safe to have the same guy finish adding the drywall sheets and nothing in the pics shows big concerns? I will secure the corner bead a little better and do the mudding process myself since I will take my sweet time to get the results I want.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Like I said - drywall mistakes are usually easy to rectify. You do want to make sure both the corner bead and all the drywall is well secured to the wall.

I'd rather apply an extra coat of mud than have to do extra sanding. Normally only the final coat needs sanding. Little ridges in the mud can be shaved off with your drywall knife. Be sure to let the mud dry completely before applying the next coat - this is especially important with the tape coat!

Drywall work can be messy but it isn't rocket science:wink2:


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> Like I said - drywall mistakes are usually easy to rectify. You do want to make sure both the corner bead and all the drywall is well secured to the wall.
> 
> I'd rather apply an extra coat of mud than have to do extra sanding. Normally only the final coat needs sanding. Little ridges in the mud can be shaved off with your drywall knife. Be sure to let the mud dry completely before applying the next coat - this is especially important with the tape coat!
> 
> Drywall work can be messy but it isn't rocket science:wink2:


Thanks again for your advice. I looked some more today and am wondering if the guy is just rushing or what I'm seeing is normal for this type of work. For instance here is a photo of a section he put up and its not very flush with the 2x4 at all. I understand another piece will butt up next to it but it may not be flush. I found two joints in another area that aren't flush. 

I think the studs aren't perfectly even with the header he put up as shown in the last picture. Is this ok? I don't know if people take a lot of time to get it perfectly even. If I was, I would but I know people who do this for a living need to make money. 

Just checking to see if I'm overreacting before I tell him I'm concerned about the quality of his work.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Nothing there that a decent painter can't fix... LOL

Let him finish and things should work out fine. Like Mark said above, Drywall is forgiving and can be easily fixed.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

jlhaslip said:


> Nothing there that a decent painter can't fix... LOL
> 
> Let him finish and things should work out fine. Like Mark said above, Drywall is forgiving and can be easily fixed.



Thanks the issue is more on my end not understanding what quality work is supposed to look like or not. As far as the finishing work, I'm going to mud and paint myself since I know I will take my sweet time and repeat as much as necessary. 

I was just unsure if this guy was rushing and doing bad work or the types of things I'm seeing are quite normal for this type of stuff.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Those issues are all perfectly normal, at least where I work.
That corner that is bulging out. Cut out the paper and use a pre filler to fill the gaps.
Either Concrete filler or fast set mud will work. 
Mud and pre-filler are different in that the pre-fillers "set" rather than "dry". Adding water causes a chemical reaction which forces the curing and it happens quickly. Regular mud needs to actually dry by expelling water.
Most pre-fillers are hard to sand out, so keep them below the actual finish depth. Leave some room for the tape/cover coats.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

jlhaslip said:


> Those issues are all perfectly normal, at least where I work.
> That corner that is bulging out. Cut out the paper and use a pre filler to fill the gaps.
> Either Concrete filler or fast set mud will work.
> Mud and pre-filler are different in that the pre-fillers "set" rather than "dry". Adding water causes a chemical reaction which forces the curing and it happens quickly. Regular mud needs to actually dry by expelling water.
> Most pre-fillers are hard to sand out, so keep them below the actual finish depth. Leave some room for the tape/cover coats.


Oh thanks that is good to know. If I use mud to prefill it's just a matter of waiting longer? Since I would be doing this I am going to do this over the span of a couple weeks little by little so I don't need anything to cure super fast.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Yes. The pre-fillers are used to speed up the process. If you have time, regular mud will work. Make a stiff batch so it doesn't shrink too much and make certain it is dry before covering with the tape coat.


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## w0j0 (Dec 29, 2017)

sdrocker said:


> Thanks the issue is more on my end not understanding what quality work is supposed to look like or not. As far as the finishing work, I'm going to mud and paint myself since I know I will take my sweet time and repeat as much as necessary.
> 
> I was just unsure if this guy was rushing and doing bad work or the types of things I'm seeing are quite normal for this type of stuff.


All of this looks pretty normal for production framing and drywall folks. There are guys that do high caliber work but you're going to pay for it. As said before, nothing that a painter can't fix.
Unless you really like doing the finish work, I would let him finish--seems like he's fairly competent and can knock it out. Afterall, your time has to be worth something, right? I don't think he's rushing, being paid hourly and all, but probably using shortcuts learned from trade work that homeowners would not be aware of (unless they also work in the trades)

Sent from my mobile look-at device


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

w0j0 said:


> All of this looks pretty normal for production framing and drywall folks. There are guys that do high caliber work but you're going to pay for it. As said before, nothing that a painter can't fix.
> Unless you really like doing the finish work, I would let him finish--seems like he's fairly competent and can knock it out. Afterall, your time has to be worth something, right? I don't think he's rushing, being paid hourly and all, but probably using shortcuts learned from trade work that homeowners would not be aware of (unless they also work in the trades)
> 
> Sent from my mobile look-at device


Thanks! Yea I don't want to pay top dollar for high end work because the rest of the house has non perfect areas. I just thought I'd like to not have a lousy job done to save money. However you are right that my time is worth something. He was going to do the mud work but I told him I would take care of it after seeing some of his drywall/framing progress. I may reconsider letting him do it since I have so many other things to do.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

You should know after he tapes and applies the first coat of mud if he knows how to finish. It's easier to fix bad finishing before the wall gets sealed with paint but even then bad drywall finishing is still fixable.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> You should know after he tapes and applies the first coat of mud if he knows how to finish. It's easier to fix bad finishing before the wall gets sealed with paint but even then bad drywall finishing is still fixable.



Thanks, maybe I'll let him do the first shot at the mudding but make sure he does prefill the gaps with a setting one since he won't likely wait 24 hrs.

I could always do the final coat and take my time where I want to be picky.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> You should know after he tapes and applies the first coat of mud if he knows how to finish. It's easier to fix bad finishing before the wall gets sealed with paint but even then bad drywall finishing is still fixable.



Hi I have a quick question. One corner on the ceiling didn't come out too square after I had someone do a little more mudding and texturing. I believe the stud behind it isn't the problem and the stud is right along where that corner seem is. I think what happened is the piece of sheetrock was maybe a tiny bit too wide and was slightly shoved/tapped in and screwed in but the corner didn't want to go in all the way. I remember just the upper corner not being flush before any mudding happened so everything below maybe 2 inches seems fine.

One idea to fix this is to cut 1/2 inch wide by 2 inches at the top of the corner and side of the corner then screw the remaining piece down to the stud and fill with new mud. This seems the least impactful way so I don't have to re-texture an entire piece if I cut something large out. Is there an easier or better way to do this?

I told the person that did this to pay attention to that corner but that person ignored me and quoted me $150 to come back and fix it. I think I can do it myself.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

It isn't all that bad and unless you intend to have contrasting colors I'd leave it as is.
Instead of removing any drywall I'd likely just float it out some to give the illusion of a square corner.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> It isn't all that bad and unless you intend to have contrasting colors I'd leave it as is.
> Instead of removing any drywall I'd likely just float it out some to give the illusion of a square corner.


Thanks, it will bug me for sure. I could float it but then I would need to texture a lot more. I guess I could get a texture can and try to match what the other person did.

If I wanted to remove drywall to fix the issue, would my best bet be to cut out 1/2 inch by two inches length on top and side of that corner and screw that sheetrock in more and then fill? Or is that likely to be a very difficult and impossible approach?


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Personally I wouldn't remove any drywall. If you went that direction you'd still have a big repair once you taped it and floated out 2-3 coats of j/c.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> Personally I wouldn't remove any drywall. If you went that direction you'd still have a big repair once you taped it and floated out 2-3 coats of j/c.


Thanks. Hmmm but if I were to somehow extract only 1/2 inch width on the top and side corner it seems the j/c and tape would be over a small area. I don't mind the 2-3 coats of j/c. What I mind is having to texture over a much larger area. If I float out, I would need to texture a lot more. If I texture over the repair it might be narrow and the texture mismatch might be hardly noticeable (assuming I use a can). Is my approach probably too difficult? I'm assuming I can make the repair by extracting small amound of the sheetrock to force the panel flat with maybe one or two screws.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The patch size will grow more than you think if you remove a portion. Each coat of mud gets feathered out further than last. IMO it would be easier to just float it out and texture a slightly bigger area.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> The patch size will grow more than you think if you remove a portion. Each coat of mud gets feathered out further than last. IMO it would be easier to just float it out and texture a slightly bigger area.


Oh ok, I see what you mean. Will it take a really wide section of mud to feather out a corner like that so it looks less obvious? I'm guessing I can get somewhat close in texture with a can instead of paying someone to come in with a sprayer again.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I rarely use aerosol texture but the biggest thing going for you is the repair will be in a corner. It's a lot harder to spot texture differences when they are in an inside corner.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

I'm not a contractor (that's why I'm here), but I have renovated two homes completely... which has included a LOT of drywall repair, both textured and non-textured... so I've learned a lot.

What I would say in this case is... I wouldn't get too concerned. At this stage of the work, everything is supposed to look bad. It cleans up really easily with a lot of sanding and joint compound. 

I'm not thrilled at the fact that the two drywall panels have ridging. When I've run into instances like this (can't remember where, but I know I've had this), I typically will put a furring strip over the 2x4 (up and down the entire length), to eliminate the ridging.

You won't have to use as much joint compound... but it could be better the way he did it if the curve would be too much, which would cause the wall to look warped (which you don't want), so I'd have to see a zoomed out look.

All that can be fixed easily. Just looks like he's rushing a bit.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

Todd82TA said:


> I'm not a contractor (that's why I'm here), but I have renovated two homes completely... which has included a LOT of drywall repair, both textured and non-textured... so I've learned a lot.
> 
> What I would say in this case is... I wouldn't get too concerned. At this stage of the work, everything is supposed to look bad. It cleans up really easily with a lot of sanding and joint compound.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your help. It turns out the stud where that panel went isn't flush when I searched hard for all the photos on my phone. That might be why it flares out and it doesn't look square. At this point the easiest thing might be to use mud to make it look square and then texturing over with an aerosol can. I'm not asking the person that did that work to come back anymore.

I was originally thinking of cutting a piece of the corner out and then screwing it down and then filling that corner but it looks like the stud is the issue. This was a picture taken before that corner was done.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

sdrocker said:


> Thanks for your help. It turns out the stud where that panel went isn't flush when I searched hard for all the photos on my phone. That might be why it flares out and it doesn't look square. At this point the easiest thing might be to use mud to make it look square and then texturing over with an aerosol can. I'm not asking the person that did that work to come back anymore.
> 
> I was originally thinking of cutting a piece of the corner out and then screwing it down and then filling that corner but it looks like the stud is the issue. This was a picture taken before that corner was done.




Yeah, either way, the drywall person probably should have trimmed a bit more so it fit properly. It's clear that the stud caused it to push in... as you see it. But I've done that too before, and I fix it when I'm doing the finishing work.

If that were in my house, I'd probably take a razor-blade to just the outside of where the drywall is "bubbling" for lack of a better word. I'd then I'd clean out anything that was loose, and then fill it all in with thinset. 

When all is said and done, you'll never even see it.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

Todd82TA said:


> Yeah, either way, the drywall person probably should have trimmed a bit more so it fit properly. It's clear that the stud caused it to push in... as you see it. But I've done that too before, and I fix it when I'm doing the finishing work.
> 
> If that were in my house, I'd probably take a razor-blade to just the outside of where the drywall is "bubbling" for lack of a better word. I'd then I'd clean out anything that was loose, and then fill it all in with thinset.
> 
> When all is said and done, you'll never even see it.


Thanks,

Hmmm, I drew an arrow to the problem area. You can see that stud sticks out a little and that's probably what caused the panel to bend out when it hits the corner. The photo on the left showing the studs is before, the picture showing the curvy upper joint is after more drywall work put over that problematic stud.

I don't think I can do anything except cut drywall out (probably a moderate area), plane the stud down a bit with some type of tool like a router, or use 3/8 instead of 1/2 sheetrock for a new patch and level flat with mud. 

Is your idea of taking a razor blade basically to cut out thickness of the existing sheetrock and just fill in after flat? I might be left with half thickness sheetrock to get rid of the curve shape. I could just use mud to flatten and make it appear straighter but that might go out far to the left and then I need a lot more texturing with a spray can. I'm not interested in getting someone to charge a lot for re-texturing a small area.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

sdrocker said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Is your idea of taking a razor blade basically to cut out thickness of the existing sheetrock and just fill in after flat? I might be left with half thickness sheetrock to get rid of the curve shape. I could just use mud to flatten and make it appear straighter but that might go out far to the left and then I need a lot more texturing with a spray can. I'm not interested in getting someone to charge a lot for re-texturing a small area.



Well, it was really just to remove the damaged area of the part of the sheetrock that was messed up, but I see what you're saying. On the other side, the part that sticks out, I'd just hit it with a hammer (literally), or use a wood chisel to even it out (or a planer if you can get it in there). 

Otherwise... is the second picture the finished product as it is now?


In that case, the easiest way is to do it as you say. Pre-mixed mud is cheap... goop it on with a 4" trowel, and spread it out using an 8 and 12" trowel. And then buy one of those spray cans with the texture, and flatten it out with the foam like how the rest of the wall was done.

That's the part I hate the most about doing drywall... the finishing. You do save so much more time by making your cuts right.


It's like painting a car... prep-work makes all the difference. 

Thankfully, drywall mud is super forgiving.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

Todd82TA said:


> Well, it was really just to remove the damaged area of the part of the sheetrock that was messed up, but I see what you're saying. On the other side, the part that sticks out, I'd just hit it with a hammer (literally), or use a wood chisel to even it out (or a planer if you can get it in there).
> 
> Otherwise... is the second picture the finished product as it is now?
> 
> ...



Thanks,
Yes the picture that doesn't show the studs is how it looks now. It doesn't look super bad but that curve corner is bugging me a bit. I think your suggestion to use the premixed mud (I have almost an entire box left over) with a 12" trowel might be the easiest rather than tearing into the drywall and maybe having trouble getting it flush without removing material from the stud itself.


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## Todd82TA (Mar 20, 2018)

sdrocker said:


> Thanks,
> Yes the picture that doesn't show the studs is how it looks now. It doesn't look super bad but that curve corner is bugging me a bit. I think your suggestion to use the premixed mud (I have almost an entire box left over) with a 12" trowel might be the easiest rather than tearing into the drywall and maybe having trouble getting it flush without removing material from the stud itself.



Oh, yeah... definitely. If it's already done (like that)... then just mud over it. Otherwise you're going to end up having to re-tape the seams and all that..... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not worth the effort.

I can totally appreciate the attention to detail you want... I would feel the same way.

Yeah... just use a 12" trowel and mud in the curve... and then re-texture...


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

Todd82TA said:


> Oh, yeah... definitely. If it's already done (like that)... then just mud over it. Otherwise you're going to end up having to re-tape the seams and all that..... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not worth the effort.
> 
> I can totally appreciate the attention to detail you want... I would feel the same way.
> 
> Yeah... just use a 12" trowel and mud in the curve... and then re-texture...


Thanks for the suggestion! I'll give it a try.


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## rjordan393 (Sep 15, 2010)

I did not read the whole thread but saw the pictures of the work in part 1 of the thread. let me say this: I am not a professional but I do care about the quality of my work. The installer is what I call a "Wannabee". 
A wannabee is a person who decides he is going to be a contractor without sufficient knowledge in the trade he picks.
Now it's difficult to determine who is at fault here because of the following concerns:
1. Did the customer seek the cheapest person to [perform the work.
2. Did he ask for references? 

I would have fired this installer upon seeing this work. No customer should have to cover up or finish what a so called contractor lack of experience failed to do.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

The small amount of damaged drywall in the pic isn't a big deal! I'd cut out the loose/raised portion with a utility knife, prefill the void and then tape/finish as normal once the prefill has dried.


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## rjordan393 (Sep 15, 2010)

The homeowner should look at the possibility of using a heavy duty clamp to pull in the stud . Then use two long screws to hold it in place.
If the framer used screws to install the stud, then it may make the repair easier by removing some of them. Then re-install them.


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## sdrocker (Sep 24, 2014)

mark sr said:


> The small amount of damaged drywall in the pic isn't a big deal! I'd cut out the loose/raised portion with a utility knife, prefill the void and then tape/finish as normal once the prefill has dried.



Thanks, that was my original idea. Instead I floated out with more compound and re-textured with a can. I think it looks better than it did before as the edge appears straight even though its floated out quite a ways. It's in a corner no one will notice as it's behind where a door swings but I knew it would bug me if I had left it the way it was. 

Here is a before and after photo (photo with red arrow is from before).


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

I prefer to use regular drywall in a bath rm. The green board doesn't paint as well as regular drywall and as long as the drywall is primed and a coat or two of latex enamel it has plenty of protection. I only have limited experience with the paperless drywall although it would likely be a good choice.


Obviously you'd use cement board under the tile in the wet areas.


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## Scotm (May 13, 2018)

Interesting... The green board has a asphalt treated core which should never be used on a ceiling. Also, I've noted, in the past, the core is extremely brittle making it very difficult to attach anything to the finished wall which is not screwed into a stud or solid blocking. I had a towel bar dangling for quite awhile before I overlaid the GB with a decorative panel.
Good luck


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