# Caulk or not to caulk!? Cabinets



## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

diypnw said:


> Should I caulk these gaps on these kitchen cabinet doors before painting?? What was your take?


Yes, caulk them. Doesn't matter that the panels are desiged to "float".


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

XC Painter said:


> Yes, caulk them. Doesn't matter that the panels are desiged to "float".


 
REALLY???:surprise::surprise:


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

While they will look better caulked you run the risk of the caulk failing [if your are lucky] or the panel cracking because it can't move.


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## Windows on Wash (Aug 30, 2011)

No way that I would caulk them. Just going to look like a mess at the end of the day if you ask me.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

No, don't caulk them. Even slight movement in the wood will cause any caulk to "push out" or crack. Trust me, I've tried it at the request of customers only to have it fail in very short order.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

chrisn said:


> REALLY???:surprise::surprise:


Dont be too shocked. The way I stated it may have sounded off, but it's fine.
I've been spraying nice high end cabinetry for 20 years and have never had any issue with cracking of the wood or the caulking itself. 

I caulked my own at home here and they look sweet still after 4 years.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

Windows on Wash said:


> No way that I would caulk them. Just going to look like a mess at the end of the day if you ask me.


They will look fine unless you can't caulk.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> No, don't caulk them. Even slight movement in the wood will cause any caulk to "push out" or crack. Trust me, I've tried it at the request of customers only to have it fail in very short order.


Never once have I had a problem with caulking them after probably 50 cabinet jobs.
Maybe you caulked over lacquer or conversion varnish and it didn't work.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

XC Painter said:


> Never once have I had a problem with caulking them after probably 50 cabinet jobs.
> Maybe you caulked over lacquer or conversion varnish and it didn't work.


XC, not only does the caulking crack, any paint that happens to trickle into that crack area begins to fail. I'm impressed that you've been able to get the caulk to work. It would make for neater cabinet painting jobs. What brand/type of caulk do you use for cabinet work?

In talking to a cabinet maker, he said a good cabinet maker will apply wax or silicone to the unseen ends of the floating piece so that when it moves, it moves without much resistance. He said most cabinet makers don't do this critical step.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> XC, not only does the caulking crack, any paint that happens to trickle into that crack area begins to fail. I'm impressed that you've been able to get the caulk to work. It would make for neater cabinet painting jobs. What brand/type of caulk do you use for cabinet work?
> 
> In talking to a cabinet maker, he said a good cabinet maker will apply wax or silicone to the unseen ends of the floating piece so that when it moves, it moves without much resistance. He said most cabinet makers don't do this critical step.


I've used a few brands of caulking, usually from Ben Moore, or Miller Paint. Probably used the ben moore 50 year stuff the most. Might have used Alex although I try not to use it much. I would not use the urethanized caulking or big stretch, and I tend to stay away from sw's stuff. 950a or 850a never impressed me.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

I've always caulked those. Not only have I never had a problem, but I've never once seen cabinet doors that had a problem from it. Once its caulked, that inside panel will never move again. Aside from extreme temperature differences in the house, I dont see how that could ever be a problem.

Some people say you should prime them before you caulk, but I usually dont. I think the caulk lines look better with a nice thick primer coat over them.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

woodco said:


> I've always caulked those. Not only have I never had a problem, but I've never once seen cabinet doors that had a problem from it. Once its caulked, that inside panel will never move again. Aside from extreme temperature differences in the house, I dont see how that could ever be a problem.
> 
> Some people say you should prime them before you caulk, but I usually dont. I think the caulk lines look better with a nice thick primer coat over them.


 
I have had just the opposite experience. Maybe it's a location thing. Around here there are extreme temperature changes, resulting in temp changes in the home also.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

Ask the actual cabinet maker and you will get the answer" Do not caulk"


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

chrisn said:


> Ask the actual cabinet maker and you will get the answer" Do not caulk"


I can accept those responses. I don't feel so strong about it to argue. 
But just for spite and to be funny I've also heard cabinet guys say their work was "ready to spray" as is, when their primer needed sanding and flaws to float out with glazing putty.
Carpenters say we shouldn't have to sand factory primer on mdf or prime it again either...


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

I think its funny when carpenters say they know how to caulk.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

woodco said:


> I think its funny when carpenters say they know how to caulk.


Exactly!! Some can, many can actually. But it's crazy when they talk smack and say they won't let any painter caulk their trim, lol. 
This is only when we're on a new client's home and/or we meet a new contractor here and there.


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## LanterDan (Jul 3, 2006)

That panel looks flat in the picture you show. I'm inclined to think it plywood. Can you tell how thick it is, or is there anything from the back side that would suggest plywood vs solid wood?

Plywood will not undergo seasonal movement the same way solid wood does. I don't paint cabinetry (out of principle), but I would caulk if I knew it was plywood, but most definitely would not if it was solid wood.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

Yes, good point. I wasn't sure which one is prone to move more out of the two.
Another factor is that some doors have a wider gap,(I would not caulk wider ones), some are tighter.
Some doors' panels are just built with a little more movement than other's. If you tap them or bump them with your hand and they rattle, or flex or anything, well same thing. Too much movement and I wouldn't caulk them probably. 

Btw I am a paint employee who many times dictates the job details/procedures, but sometimes I just have to do as told by either my boss, contractor, or client, so that's why I say "probably" above. 



.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

chrisn said:


> I have had just the opposite experience. Maybe it's a location thing. Around here there are extreme temperature changes, resulting in temp changes in the home also.



Maybe more humidity than temperature. Here in the southeast I've seen more than one floating panel crack that had been caulked.



> I think its funny when carpenters say they know how to caulk


I cringe when a 'carpenter' tells me _"I had a few bad cuts but prefilled them with caulk for you"_


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

mark sr said:


> M
> I cringe when a 'carpenter' tells me _"I had a few bad cuts but prefilled them with caulk for you"_


Its always been a surprise for me. I recently had one tell me he was going to beforehand, so I stopped him.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

So, I was curious if certain woods were more prone to expansion, and I came across this article. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tricks/how-to-calculate-wood-shrinkage-and-expansion

This raises a question for me. If its essentially a humidity/moisture change issues, wouldnt it stand to reason that if primed and painted properly, the door would be sealed against any moisture, thus not have any expansion contraction issues?

Im here in Austin Texas, where we have a pretty wide range of humidity. I have done a ton of turning oak cabinets into paint, and I've always caulked them. According to this article, Oak has a higher expansion rate (assuming the middle is not a veneer.) so, my cabinets should be especially prone to expansion, yet I've never had a problem. 

My painting method for oak cabinetry is spraying and backbrushing BIN (to work it into the oak grain), followed by another wet coat, spraying one or two coats of Latex wood undercoater, then a couple top coats, of some kind of waterborne product. Usually Durapoxy for lower end, and proclassic, breakthrough, or another oil hybrid for higher end.

Is it possible that this is actually sealing the wood good enough where humidity doesnt affect it? For some reason, its usually humid out whenever I get cabinet jobs too. I chalk it up to Murphy's law.


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## chrisn (Dec 23, 2007)

XC Painter said:


> I can accept those responses. I don't feel so strong about it to argue.
> But just for spite and to be funny I've also heard cabinet guys say their work was "ready to spray" as is, when their primer needed sanding and flaws to float out with glazing putty.
> Carpenters say we shouldn't have to sand factory primer on mdf or prime it again either...


yea, well, I don't trust many carpenters. I can count on one finger the only one I do trust:smile:


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Carpenters dont realize how much work we have to do to make their stuff pretty. They think the smoothness of it all is their doing. Bastards.

On my big job I've been on and off of for the last few months, I argued with the project manager about gluing the miter joints on the door casing. 

"Nah, it'll be fine," he says... I kept arguing, telling him the first time the door gets slammed, its gonna crack out. He absolved me of any responsibility for cracked casing miters....

Most of them are already cracking out... I have a funny feeling hes gonna forget about what he said.


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## Gymschu (Dec 12, 2010)

Just fixed a bunch of carpenter screw-ups on a recent job. He installed some fancy trim around a gas fireplace insert. I don't know if the blade was dull on his miter saw or what, but, I've never seen such jagged edges on what was supposed to be nice trim work in my life! It took everything in my arsenal to make it look pretty and of course he beamed with joy when the homeowner's saw the finished product and patted HIM on the back.......aye, yi, yi.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

Locally there is a shortage of real painters. You wouldn't believe the houses/apartments I've went into that never had any of the woodwork caulked and sometimes not even puttied. But those hacks just helped make my reputation better. I've always prided myself in being able to make most any carpenter's work look good.


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

Same here in Austin.


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## diypnw (Nov 5, 2017)

LanterDan said:


> That panel looks flat in the picture you show. I'm inclined to think it plywood. Can you tell how thick it is, or is there anything from the back side that would suggest plywood vs solid wood?
> 
> Plywood will not undergo seasonal movement the same way solid wood does. I don't paint cabinetry (out of principle), but I would caulk if I knew it was plywood, but most definitely would not if it was solid wood.


I think its plywood. it does have a rattle sound when I close the panel.. 

Now if I did caulk whats the best caulk to use in this case?

Thanks guys!!


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## woodco (Jun 11, 2017)

I dont think it matters that much what brand of caulk you use. I personally dont like DAP, or Alex plus, but I wouldnt hesitate to use them in your situation if thats all I had available. They're just a little thin for my taste, but they fill cracks, and they're paintable... Just dont use the clear stuff. Its super thin.


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## mark sr (Jun 13, 2017)

My go to caulk is White Lightning. While DAP made great latex caulk 40 yrs ago and I don't know if they've lagged in improving it or what but I've seen too much of their caulk fail in recent years for me to use it if I have any choice.


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## AmericanPainter (Dec 5, 2017)

I caulk them and let the homeowners know it may crack in a few years. The finish product looks so much better though.


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## Skoorb (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm trying to decide on this, too, in my kitchen.

The problem is that paint wants to bridge this gap (at least if using a brush--I imagine with a spray gun this could be easily avoided), so it seems to me that I'm absolutely guaranteed to have cracks on the paint where it bridges, if I don't caulk. I'm not sure if scoring it after painting is practical, to try and avoid the problem.

And then if I do caulk, I'm inclined to think I should probably prime it first because otherwise my caulk in this area is the first bonding layer to the existing glossy laminate, around some of the edges where it blends in.

That said, how bad does cracking end up looking? I can't find many guides online that say to caulk--they don't address the topic, so I think most people do not do it.


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## XC Painter (Jun 10, 2017)

Skoorb said:


> I'm trying to decide on this, too, in my kitchen.
> 
> The problem is that paint wants to bridge this gap (at least if using a brush--I imagine with a spray gun this could be easily avoided), so it seems to me that I'm absolutely guaranteed to have cracks on the paint where it bridges, if I don't caulk. I'm not sure if scoring it after painting is practical, to try and avoid the problem.
> 
> ...


They will be fine if caulked, unless the panel is visibly loose, or the gap is large.


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