# Wiring behind studs



## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

In an unfinished basement, is romex allowed to be 
be run horizontally behind studs (holes are not bored into the studs)?
The framing is offset by about 2 inches from the 
cement wall. Looks like the wiring is supported only by friction at a 
90 degree turn in the wall.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

It is allowed but it still need to fastened every 4 feet.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks Joed.
Would the corner stud be condidered as a 
end point (eg. starting point then measuring
4 feet on either wall direction and stapling
at the rear of the stud)? 

Is the wiring method worth keeping 
or should it be replaced with boring studs?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

It needs to be secured every 4' including going around the corner
Friction does not meet code


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

The corner stud is only considered a starting point if the cable is fastened to it.
If it is existing no need to change it. I would not do it that way however. It's no big deal to drill holes.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Since it will be hard to place staples on the back side of the studs (with only a 2" gap) and a pain to drill and repull the wires is it ok for him to:

Tack in a wiring staple to the side of the stud near the back edge (leaving it 1/8" to 1/4" proud) and then zip tie the wire to the staple.

Or does code require specific fasteners?


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Would stapling to the side of the stud every 4'
pass code? Is this method of wiring behind
studs considered "amateur" and technically incorrect?
Thanks.


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

I consider it amateur. I don't know if it will or will pass code.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

jogr said:


> Since it will be hard to place staples on the back side of the studs (with only a 2" gap) and a pain to drill and repull the wires is it ok for him to:
> 
> Tack in a wiring staple to the side of the stud near the back edge (leaving it 1/8" to 1/4" proud) and then zip tie the wire to the staple.
> 
> Or does code require specific fasteners?


I don't see why this method would not be acceptable.

If listed materials are used they must be used as listed; ie correct number of cables per staple, correct size ranges etc.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Here's some official electrical zip ties
http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/7...77b5435.aspx?gclid=COC02fa1yaICFQLEsgoduh7hyA


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Anyone have any pics of using the electrical ties in practice?

Can Ramset-ing a piece of plywood to the cement wall every
4' and then stapling romex onto the plywood is
code passable...It is shoddy work.


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

If those studs are 2' OC you could just drill every other one to secure the cable. you are not talking about any time to drill a few holes.


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## fortop (Jun 23, 2010)

Drilling through studs is the normal procedure, and I think 3/4" protection for the romex is minimum required. But, I think stapling to pieces of plywood ramset into the wall has the additional advantage of providing more protection from future nail penetration (hanging cabinets, pictures,etc.) than drilling through the center of the stud. It does seem like unnecessary extra effort. Some people run short lengths of conduit when furring out masonry walls with studs up to 8' vertrically, then make the horizontal runs in the overhead floor or ceiling joists.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks for all input.

From the picture, does it look ok?


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## fortop (Jun 23, 2010)

Is that felt paper over a masonry wall, then a 2 x 2 spacer, then a 2 x 4 stud wall?


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

fortop said:


> Drilling through studs is the normal procedure, and I think 3/4" protection for the romex is minimum required.


Holes must be 1-1/4" from the edge of framing for protection.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Will put a steel plate at location 1.

Is a plate needed if the staple is less
than 1 1/4" from the face or front of 
the stud as in location 2?


- Think its roofing asphalt that was put
onto the wall, then a 2 x 2 spacer thats
secured to the back of the 2x4 studs.
Not sure why there's a gap between the 
2x2 spacer and cement wall.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

georgeo said:


> Will put a steel plate at location 1.


OK, but it is only needed if the hole is less than 1-1/4" from the edge.





georgeo said:


> Is a plate needed if the staple is less
> than 1 1/4" from the face or front of
> the stud as in location 2?


Again yes. BUT..... there should be NO reason that holes or stapled wires are less than 1-1/4" from the finished edge in your situation.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Answer for FORTOP question:

The 2x2 horizontal strapping at the bottom (about 6 inches of the floor)
behind the studs is temporary there,
so that after putting the felt onto the wall,
there would be a long continuous horizontal strapping to hold the 
black felt onto the wall.

----

From the pic:
Is it ok to wire the outlet this way? thanks.


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## jogr (Jul 24, 2007)

Hi Georgeo, I don't know if it's ok per code but I wouldn't leave that big loop and all that excess wire there. Where it comes through the stud just run it straight down to the box and secure it to the side of the stud (towards the back) with a couple staples. 


That's a lot of wires running through that wall.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/framing-out-basement-stick-frame-firing-strips-75873/

Be safe, Gary


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks GBR in WA -- and will check out links.

Thanks jogr: Will update the wiring according to the pic.


re: That's a lot of wires running through that wall.

Can you provide some insight on what could be wrong 
with a lot of wires running through that wall?
The wires are for washer, dryer outlet, ceiling lights, 
furnace wiring, etc...



Is there a way to wire the outlet having extra 
slack?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

No real problem with lots of wires thru a wall
Most people try to group them in one area
--such that the area can be avoided when driving in nails etc


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## joed (Mar 13, 2005)

Why do you need extra slack in the wire? Are you planning to move it later?


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Can the outlet be futureproofed so as to have the extra slack
for any future duct work, home theater speakers or anything else in the way.
Minimal distances within the box are under 300.14.

Any suggestions? thanks.


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## xxPaulCPxx (Dec 2, 2006)

Loop or accordian the wire up and use a ziptie with a fastener hole to cinch it tight together, so that none of it is closer than 1.25" to the surface. Do this within 8" of where you are placing the box.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

If i use a ziptie with a hole in it,
can i make 2 loops or whatever amount 
of loops for slack and be within 8 inches 
of the box or is that a Big NO-NO ? 

Attached is pic with 1 loop.

Thanks.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

georgeo said:


> If i use a ziptie with a hole in it,
> can i make 2 loops or whatever amount
> of loops for slack and be within 8 inches
> of the box or is that a Big NO-NO ?


Do it like xxPaulCPxx says and it is legal. 

BTW, both of those pictures are violations. 

What is the obsession with these loops anyway? :huh:


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## xxPaulCPxx (Dec 2, 2006)

_What is the obsession with these loops anyway?_​Because a DIY has to plan for all permutation of the room, not just the plans the architect gave them. If that box ever needs adjusting, he has the slack without having to pull new romex. Sure, Speedy Petey would be able to whip that new romex run out in a mere 30 seconds... which takes a DIY like me about 30 days to do the same thing:laughing:

The staple has to be attaching the wire to the stud within 8" (I can't remember the distance off the top of my head. As you have it currently set up, the staple is securing the romex about 2' away from the box!


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

For the record, it is within 8" of a single gang non-metallic box with no clamping means. All others it is 12". These numbers are measured _along the wire_, not in a straight line.


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## georgeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks for the inputs.

The slack is a reminder of a time when a rotozip/dremel
sliced the romex. Didn't want this to happen again.



So from the picture,


1) if the gang box was instead a metallic box:

i would have 8" + 2" = 10"

so thats within the 12".

2) if plastic box used, with "ORANGE" color 

i would have 6" + 2" = 8"

so thats within the 8".



hope this have been interpreted correctly?


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## Scuba_Dave (Jan 16, 2009)

It must be secured within the required distance measure along the wire
You can't have 14" of wire secured within 8" of the box


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## xxPaulCPxx (Dec 2, 2006)

Yes, the orange would satisfy. You could also just tack in another staple just ahead of the other one so you are catching the romex at 6" from the box. The would immediately make the existing wire legal.


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## Speedy Petey (Feb 1, 2004)

In that image, why not just add a staple hitting BOTH cables at around 5"?
Problem solved. :thumbsup:


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## Jim Port (Sep 21, 2007)

georgeo said:


> Thanks for the inputs.
> 
> The slack is a reminder of a time when a rotozip/dremel
> sliced the romex. Didn't want this to happen again.





> In that image, why not just add a staple hitting BOTH cables at around 5"?
> Problem solved


Or just get better drywallers. :thumbup:


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## Proby (Jul 17, 2010)

I think you are overthinking this. Staple the wire and close up the walls, then enjoy your room :thumbsup:


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