# tearing down old plaster walls, insulating and putting up drywall



## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

I started tearing down my old plaster and lathe walls so I can insulate with rockwool batting and put up new drywall, when I came across a problem around the window and door frames. How do I remove the lathe that sits behind them. I was going to take off the window and door frames (I have vinyl replacement windows) not only to remove the lathe, but also so I can insulate behind them, when someone told me not to do it. They said if you take the window and door frames down, you will have to install extension jambs b/c there will be a gap between the door frame and the jamb. They also said that the extension jambs don't look good and can be tough to install. Does this mean that the drywall when installed would not be flush with the door jamb. I can see about and inch in from and behind the door frame and it looks like there's a piece of wood parallel to the frame that's attached to it. I'm very confused and don't know what to do. Someone please help!


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

They have no clue what there talking about.
Any time your removing old plaster and lath you have to remove all the old trim.
The thing is plaster and lath is thicker then 1/2 sheetrock so all the walls will need to be shimed out so they will be even with the old window and door jambs.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down plaster and lathe walls*

Thanks for your prompt response Joe. The plasterer did say he would have to shim the wall out. My house was built in the late 1920's if that makes any difference. I didn't understand why he said this would create a gap between door frame and door jamb.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Not sure why your dealing with a plasterer if your doing drywall.
If you did not remove the trim there's no way to fill in the old pockets where the old window weights were or get to the gaps around the doors.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*drywall*

Not sure if it's different where you live, but most drywall installers also put a coat of plaster over the drywall. I've had it done before in my kitchen. Precisely why I want to take off the door and window frames so I can fill in the gaps with the insulation. Otherwise, why go through trouble of tearing down walls, just to do a job halfway.


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## joecaption (Nov 30, 2011)

Never done around here that I've ever heard of.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*plaster*

Maybe it's a New England thing. I know when I lived in the south they didn't do it there either and the walls always seemed pretty flimsy. It's pretty cool watching them do it on their stilts.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

now is the time to get new windows and doors.

i am doing the exact same thing


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Opening up the walls also means bring everything, and I mean everything up to code. That is one reason why people do not gut to the studs, because ends up costing them more and in a lot of remodels, it is not warranted for 99% of placing insulation inside the walls.


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## user1007 (Sep 23, 2009)

Alibaba said:


> Maybe it's a New England thing. I know when I lived in the south they didn't do it there either and the walls always seemed pretty flimsy. It's pretty cool watching them do it on their stilts.


Hugh?If the walls seemed flimsy putting a coat of plaster on them is certainly not going to make them but, maybe, surface stronger. And so what. Adding the weight would just make a crappy, poorly secured drywall job sag and pull its tape loose?

I have certainly called in wall surfacing teams into antique homes to simulate the plaster that was once there in antique homes. On very few, purist owner have wanted the real thing. It's hard to find real plaster people anymore though. 

I suspect you see more of it in New England because there is a desire to mimmick the old. Or surpass it. I suspect you would see lots of similar practice around any antique home community where homes were being renovated and getting new walls. I certainly sought to match new walls to old plaster and lath I did. Of course they never look quite the same. They are too perfectly flat over the entire surface for one thing. 

But you know, if the craftsman who built homes I worked on most had access to the building materials we do? They never would have lath and plastered or made posts and things out of wood termites would gobble. Hopefully none of them would have painted over hardwood or used vinyl siding though.

Faux finishes or plaster and texture veneers usually look off to me in new construction.

The real plasterers, on stilts, with a plaster hawk full of material are amazing to watch. If you have ever held one you know what I mean. And they bend it down and have mixer fill it up. Soon all gone I suspect. Never arm wrestle one!


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

I have never heard of plaster over drywall or properly installed drywall being flimsy. My question is if this if all just for insulation why not just drill a hole and use the old blown in stuff.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Probably doing electrical and LV work toolseeker. That is my fair guess.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster and lath walls*

The reason I'm not putting holes in the top of the wall and insulating that way is b/c I already had insulation blown in earlier in 2000 and when I went to open up the walls, there's hardly any insulation. Most of the cavities are either totally empty or only partially filled. If you do not open up the walls, you have no idea if the insulation has been blown in properly, unless perhaps you have access to a thermal camera. Big rip off business if you ask me. I don't see insulation companies going around with thermal cameras to check the job after they've blown it in. They would be redoing a lot of home and probably be out of business. Additionally, blown in cannot get around the window and door frames and rock wool batts have a higher R value per inch than cellulose. Rock wool is a far superior product also with regard to sound dampening and fireproof.

I guess none of you folks are in the New England area if you have never heard of plaster over drywall! It's done all the time in older homes. Can't speak for new construction.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster walls*

By the way, no one except for JoeCaption addressed my specific question in their replies. I'm not asking for advice on insulation or plastering over drywall.


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## Evstarr (Nov 15, 2011)

Post pics for conclusive advise, but normally, yes, you'd remove the trim and expect the rocker to fur out the walls appropriately so that everything lands straight.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

I will post a pic later today. Can you please explain in layman's terms by "expect the rocker to fur out the walls appropriately so that everything lands straight". Not sure what you mean by rocker and fur out the walls. Thanks.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster walls*

Hope these pictures help clarify. This is a room with two exterior walls and the door in the picture goes to a closet.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster walls.*

PS. In case you're wondering, the wall in the photo with the door backs up to the attic stairwell.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

Alibaba said:


> I will post a pic later today. Can you please explain in layman's terms by "expect the rocker to fur out the walls appropriately so that everything lands straight". Not sure what you mean by rocker and fur out the walls. Thanks.


The rocker is the guy that hangs the sheetROCK. And to fur out the walls it means he will put shims on some of the studs so it is flat the whole length of the wall, otherwise the wall would look wavy when you look down it. Hope this clarifies.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster walls*

Hey Toolseeker - do you have any thoughts on my original question - someone said that when the walls is hung (and he did suggest bring out the wall with a firring strip), if I take the window and door frames off, when I try to put them back, there will be a gap where the door jamb is and would have to put on a door jam extension.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

You should be able to pull that lathe right out from behind the trim. Just wiggle and pull hard. The little nails they used dont really hold well and it should come right out.

Honestly, take the trim off and start from scratch. You can still get all trim you have from Anderson McQuaid in Cambridge, MA (you said you were New England right?) Here's a room we redid with blue board, fresh plaster, and brand new trim from Anderson McQuaid that matches our 1922 original trim exactly.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

*tearing down old plaster walls*

Thanks for the tip Squisher. I've actually heard of that place. I did plan on taking the trim off but someone said there might be a problem with the drywall being flush with the door jamb and I would have to use a jamb extension. Do you see any reason that there would be a problem with the drywall being even with the door jamb? They are going to bring the wall out by nailing some lath onto the studs. Also would you let the guy hanging the sheet rock do the insulation or hire an insulation contractor. I'm going to use rockwool batting. I don't want to install the insulation myself since I'm not good at cutting and b/c of the dimensions of the rockwool and the height of my ceiling (over 8'2"), there will be alot of cutting.


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## gregzoll (Dec 25, 2006)

Instead of using lathe, either rip down a 2x6 for use to fur out, or get the proper drywall shims that come in 86" lengths.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

Alibaba said:


> Thanks for the tip Squisher. I've actually heard of that place. I did plan on taking the trim off but someone said there might be a problem with the drywall being flush with the door jamb and I would have to use a jamb extension. Do you see any reason that there would be a problem with the drywall being even with the door jamb? They are going to bring the wall out by nailing some lath onto the studs. Also would you let the guy hanging the sheet rock do the insulation or hire an insulation contractor. I'm going to use rockwool batting. I don't want to install the insulation myself since I'm not good at cutting and b/c of the dimensions of the rockwool and the height of my ceiling (over 8'2"), there will be alot of cutting.


You should be fine with 1/2" blue board with a 1/8" coat of plaster over it. Mine came out perfectly flush. 

As for insulation, definitely DIY. It's almost too easy not to. Here's an example of insulation I did myself.

Before:










After:










Any reason you want to use rockwool and not regular batts? I did rockwool around my bathroom for sound, but other than that I don't think it's really needed....


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm using it b/c it's better than fiberglass and b/c of the sound dampening. I live in the city and it tends to be a bit noisy. As is said in my earlier post, don't want to do it myself b/c there's way too many cuts. Rock wool batts are only 47" high and my ceiling are over 8 feet.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

Have you considered open cell spray foam? Probably cheaper, faster, and better than the rockwool batts and it doesn't get much more soundproof than that. Where are you located? I can recommend a few installers for you.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

I've been told that the spray foam is much more expensive. I live in little Rhody.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

Try these guys:

http://www.national-lumber.com/pro-insulators.htm

They did mine, not sure if they serve Rhode Island. They were the cheapest quote by 40% and i couldn't be more happy with the job.


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks Squished. Just curious, what is the R value per inch of the open cell? I can get R15 in 3 1/2 inches of depth which is over 4 per inch.


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## Squished (Sep 18, 2012)

Same 15. You're getting air sealing and vapor barrier as well though.

Closed cell would give you a value of 21.


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## Fix'n it (Mar 12, 2012)

the roxul isn't hard to work with. you could save a lot of money DIY'ing.


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## masterofall (May 27, 2010)

Go in and cut the nails holding the lath on from the back. Ocilating saw or reciprocating.
Should be able to do it and leave the old trim on.
Photo please, hard to understand exactly what you are trying to do


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## Alibaba (Nov 19, 2012)

Pictures are on Page 2 of the thread. I think I will be able to remove the window and door casings without breaking or cracking them. I was concerned that the drywall would not line up with the door jamb, but I think it's going to be fine. There's a 1 inch gap between door jamb and casing. The wall is going to be built out nailing lath to the studs and then hanging drywall over it.

As for the people who said they've never heard of plaster over drywall, obviously you're not from New England.


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## ToolSeeker (Sep 19, 2012)

My $.02 I don"t know what I was thinking in my first answer That I never heard of plaster over drywall DUH that's what blue board is for. As for your jambs I'm not sure. I know when you get pre hung doors for plaster walls they have to be ordered because regular pre hung is not wide enough.


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## Gary in WA (Mar 11, 2009)

Have your drywall installer shim the studs; in older houses, studs were cut and installed "green" without drying--- or dried outdoors for a season or so, not kiln dried (controlled result). The stud twisted every which way as it dried. Installed in your wall are "plaster grounds" - strips of wood behind the jamb trim boards and at the baseboard line. The plasterer used a straight-edge screed board to level the surface using the plaster grounds as the thickness gauge. Your studs may vary by 3/8" or so in "plane" across the wall. Some ares took 5/8" (standard) plaster thickness- next to the P.G., and other areas may be 1" thick. Simply adding lath furring to each stud may not be in plane... someone needs to check for straight across the wall as well as vertically, and shim the shims accordingly. 

BTW- o.c.SPF is rated at 3.6 per inch, aged (thermal drift) and may require an additional vapor retarder in Zones 5-8= depends on the wall make-up.

ADA the drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach/

Where are you located?

Gary


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